# "Beastly" groomer porn



## drjeff (Feb 7, 2010)

The NSAA East Region trade show is at Mount Snow this coming week, and Prinoth has brought a couple of there HUGE, sharp looking Beast groomers that are at Mount Snow now.  While I'm normally a big fan of Pisten Bulley Red,  these are some sharp looking machines, and from the trade specs, they can handle a ton of snow surface!


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## RootDKJ (Feb 8, 2010)

Nice!  I'd like to be the guy who QC's the cord for the show.


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## Glenn (Feb 8, 2010)

Jeff, Jeff Jr. (female edition), my wife and myself all rode up the lift together at first tracks on Saturday. We saw a few of those silver machines heading back to the maint. ops. building. My wife noticed how quiet they were. They were really interesting looking machines. Jeff and I were laughing that they probably hired a coachbuilder/designer from Ferrari so they could charge an extra $20k-$30k on to the price. Seriously though...very nice looking machines. It was interesting to see something that had a more aesthetic quality...vs straight utility.


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 8, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Jeff, Jeff Jr. (female edition), my wife and myself all rode up the lift together at first tracks on Saturday. We saw a few of those silver machines heading back to the maint. ops. building. My wife noticed how quiet they were. They were really interesting looking machines. Jeff and I were laughing that they probably hired a coachbuilder/designer from Ferrari so they could charge an extra $20k-$30k on to the price. Seriously though...very nice looking machines. It was interesting to see something that had a more aesthetic quality...vs straight utility.



You have no idea how close to the truth that is, Glenn.  The new cab was designed by Pininfarina, the same group who designed the Ferrari Enzo:






Read more here http://www.dexigner.com/product/news-g17703.html


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## Glenn (Feb 8, 2010)

BushMogulMaster said:


> You have no idea how close to the truth that is, Glenn.  The new cab was designed by Pininfarina, the same group who designed the Ferrari Enzo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I gotta give Jeff the credit for that one! He had all the info on the groomer as the two rolled by. 

That's a cool article! It sounds like it's a really nice machine.


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## Grassi21 (Feb 8, 2010)

I want to slash the tires on those groomers.... ;-)


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 8, 2010)

It's too big for many ski areas.  In fact, most ski area shop doors are not wide enough to accommodate the vehicle track-to-track, let alone with the tiller.

In fact, I was just thinking about what it would be like if we had them here at Sugarbush.  At Mt. Ellen alone, there are several trails it wouldn't fit on.  Northway, Northridge Expressway, Wayback, The Alley (Lower FIS Runout), all of the narrow cutovers between the Sunny D trails, Upper Crackerjack where it goes around the Slidebrook load area, the little road around the bottom of GMX.  Heck, it wouldn't even fit up the cat road from the shop to the mountain.

This machine is good for the Okemos of the world.  Wide open cruisers.  Anywhere else it's a pain in the butt.  The Bison looks like a nicer machine for normal grooming operations:


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## Glenn (Feb 8, 2010)

Now that's really interesting. Kind of a "Panama Canal" type of problem. You can build em' really really big, the problem is the smaller trails. That's something I didn't even think of.


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## bvibert (Feb 8, 2010)

BushMogulMaster said:


> It's too big for many ski areas.  In fact, most ski area shop doors are not wide enough to accommodate the vehicle track-to-track, let alone with the tiller.



I was wondering how useful the huge size was.  Those tracks look wiiiiiiide!!


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Now that's really interesting. Kind of a "Panama Canal" type of problem. You can build em' really really big, the problem is the smaller trails. That's something I didn't even think of.



The smaller trails are not the problem!


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## threecy (Feb 8, 2010)

Glenn said:


> It was interesting to see something that had a more aesthetic quality...vs straight utility.



This actually isn't anything particularly new.  The LMC CF, for instance, was a nice looking, seemingly easier to use tractor, as compared to the then-popular 3700.  As comfy and flashy as the cab was, the tractor itself was flawed and led in part to the end of LMC's alpine ski area snowcat business.

Nonetheless, a powerful, wide tiller cat certainly can have a place in the industry.  While it may be useless on narrow trails, it may help hasten the grooming of wide boulevards.


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## Marc (Feb 8, 2010)

From a non New England ski centric point of view, they're probably useful where there aren't trails so much as slopes and pistes:


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## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2010)

How wide is this machine's tiller?


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 8, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> How wide is this machine's tiller?



Tiller is 20' wide.  24' with the elephant ears down.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2010)

What's standard?  or maybe average is a better term?


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 8, 2010)

14'


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## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2010)

So, for a trail like Inverness, this type of machine would cut down grooming time significantly.


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2010)

BushMogulMaster said:


> It's too big for many ski areas.  In fact, most ski area shop doors are not wide enough to accommodate the vehicle track-to-track, let alone with the tiller.
> 
> In fact, I was just thinking about what it would be like if we had them here at Sugarbush.  At Mt. Ellen alone, there are several trails it wouldn't fit on.  Northway, Northridge Expressway, Wayback, The Alley (Lower FIS Runout), all of the narrow cutovers between the Sunny D trails, Upper Crackerjack where it goes around the Slidebrook load area, the little road around the bottom of GMX.  Heck, it wouldn't even fit up the cat road from the shop to the mountain.
> 
> This machine is good for the Okemos of the world.  Wide open cruisers.  Anywhere else it's a pain in the butt.  The Bison looks like a nicer machine for normal grooming operations:



The Bison X arrived this AM on a flatbed.  Hadn't made it past the parking lot next to Mount Snow's Mountain Ops building when I left.  They had actually brought BOTH of the Beast's over there when I was leaving with the Bison X parked infront of them, and the Bison X looked real small next to the Beast's (a bunch of guys in Prinoth jackets were working on all 3). Also as I was leaving, a nice shiny red Pisten Bulley 400winch had just been offloaded from the flat bad and was about to get it's tracks hooked up.  Lots of "toys" at Mount Snow right now, and this is before many of them likely show up again in early April for the Ski Area Management Magazine 2nd annual East Coast Cutter's camp.


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> So, for a trail like Inverness, this type of machine would cut down grooming time significantly.



Less passes, less time, less fuel, etc.  Plus, many of these machines are starting to have a GPS system that allows one to see how efficiently the machines are working, on hill snow depths, engine idle time, etc, etc, etc.


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## tjf67 (Feb 8, 2010)

Those gps are going to steer the machines.  The operators will turn them around get them close and hit the button.  Supposed to make them ten percent more efficient.


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## dmoltz (Feb 9, 2010)

The sales pitch is 35 to 40% more surface groomed per pass.  It dose have a lighter ground pressure and the die hard PB guys that have run it are asking for more.  The MFG did a nice job last Tuesday introducing the Beast at Killington, areas from all over the east attending.   Now lets see who will install the 25' overhead doors so it will fin in their shops.


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2010)

dmoltz said:


> The sales pitch is 35 to 40% more surface groomed per pass.  It dose have a lighter ground pressure and the die hard PB guys that have run it are asking for more.  The MFG did a nice job last Tuesday introducing the Beast at Killington, areas from all over the east attending.   Now lets see who will install the 25' overhead doors so it will fin in their shops.



How long do you think the payoff will be vs a regular machine? (premium pad vs extra gooming capacity?)


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## jaywbigred (Feb 9, 2010)

BushMogulMaster said:


> You have no idea how close to the truth that is, Glenn.  The new cab was designed by Pininfarina, the same group who designed the Ferrari Enzo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haha, they also designed my boots!






Lange Fluid 120s from a couple years ago. Hopefully, the cabs are more comfortable than my boots :-(


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2010)

Glenn said:


> How long do you think the payoff will be vs a regular machine? (premium pad vs extra gooming capacity?)



I think Dave and crew might be a bit more interested in the shiny Pisten Bulley 400 Winch cat that arrived for the trade show yesterday based on where, and for how long Mount Snow's BR350 Winchcat was umm "parked" on the Lodge headwall just above the top of the Ego Alley lift yesterday


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## jaywbigred (Feb 9, 2010)

drjeff said:


> I think Dave and crew might be a bit more interested in the shiny Pisten Bulley 400 Winch cat that arrived for the trade show yesterday based on where, and for how long Mount Snow's BR350 Winchcat was umm "parked" on the Lodge headwall just above the top of the Ego Alley lift yesterday



Yeah, I saw that, and they had Lodge roped off...too bad, it was looking pretty sweet. We skied the lower half, which was nice.


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2010)

drjeff said:


> I think Dave and crew might be a bit more interested in the shiny Pisten Bulley 400 Winch cat that arrived for the trade show yesterday based on where, and for how long Mount Snow's BR350 Winchcat was umm "parked" on the Lodge headwall just above the top of the Ego Alley lift yesterday



Uh oh! That's not cool! Gotta be a pain to work on that "in the field" vs. in the shop.  I remember last year, there was a cat broken down on Cooper's Junction.


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Uh oh! That's not cool! Gotta be a pain to work on that "in the field" vs. in the shop.  I remember last year, there was a cat broken down on Cooper's Junction.



Yup, I first noticed a couple of cats parked side by side there as I was doing my usual "breakfast scan" of the mountain from my place about 7AM.  Still there when me and D went to the hill just before 9.  Then up on the hill, you could see that the winchcat, especially from the looks of it, the winch,  was having problems   Middle Lodge roped off, as there was a few hundred yards of cable with a bunch of slack in it deployed from the cat stuck on the headwall upto near the middle ex/middle lodge/start of Ledge intersection.

If my camera made it out of my coat and into my computer bag yesterday (I think it did), I'll post a pic tonight when I get home that I took, of the broken down cat stuck on the headwall, with another cat parked next to it and one coming down the headwall towards it that I took yesterday.


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2010)

That's going to take some effort to get down. But maybe they could have some of that new equipment help them out with things.


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2010)

Glenn said:


> That's going to take some effort to get down. But maybe they could have some of that new equipment help them out with things.



I bet the Beast could make small work of that task


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 9, 2010)

Cats break down.  It's a fact of life.  Nothing new to the guys on the hill.  You just have to deal with it.  We're great at being creative in terms of getting the broken down machine off the mountain, whether it means getting it running, or dragging it!

We've had winch issues with our BR-350, but after sorting through some "growing pains," it's probably the most reliable machine in the fleet.

Bison demo arrived at Mt. Ellen today:


















Might get some more pix tonight.


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2010)

This thread continues to deliver!


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 9, 2010)

btw, all the cats are at Mt. Snow for the NSAA conference.


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2010)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Cats break down.  It's a fact of life.  Nothing new to the guys on the hill.  You just have to deal with it.  We're great at being creative in terms of getting the broken down machine off the mountain, whether it means getting it running, or dragging it!
> 
> We've had winch issues with our BR-350, but after sorting through some "growing pains," it's probably the most reliable machine in the fleet.
> 
> ...



The company that Prinoth uses to haul their machines around on a flatbed is having a pretty profitable week around Vermont right now! 

Can't wait to see some more pics, and hopefully your impressions of how that silver machine performs there BMM!


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2010)

BushMogulMaster said:


> btw, all the cats are at Mt. Snow for the NSAA conference.



I tried to get some snowgun porn shots too yesterday, but as of when I had to quit to pick my 4 year old son up from ski school, there wasn't too much set up snowgun wise   Obviously Mount Snow had plenty of SMI polecats in their arsenal to put on display, and other than that all I saw snowgun wise were a couple of Techno-Alpin air/water towers, one full sized tower set up, and one mini tower on its side still in plastic wrap.

For ski area equipment junkies like myself, the NSAA show is a really, really cool thing to have show up at my home hill now for roughly the last 5 Februaries!


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## bigbog (Feb 9, 2010)

Must be a pretty neat show...  What a beauty of a day today...


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2010)

bigbog said:


> Must be a pretty neat show...  What a beauty of a day today...



For the ski area equipment junkie, it is pretty neat from what you can see on the outside.  I've never seen more than just pictures of the inside display boothes,  but outside atleast, you have a bunch of different makes + models of groomers with folks demo'ing them.  And also the way that the set up is at Mount Snow, behind the Grand Summit Hotel, they basically have 3 parallel snowmaking trails within a short distance walk from the hotel and hooked up to the pipes, you'll see some snowgun manufacturers with their products hooked up and running,  so you might see some SMI Fan guns next to a Ratnik air/water tower near a Techno Alpin Fan Gun near an HKD air/water tower near an Aerco fan gun, etc, etc, etc.

For most "normal" folks it wouldn't be noteworthy, but for a ski area equipment junkie,  it's almost like being a kid in a candy store


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2010)

Almost like having your dad have beer for breakfast?


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## mondeo (Feb 9, 2010)

dmoltz said:


> The sales pitch is 35 to 40% more surface groomed per pass.  It dose have a lighter ground pressure and the die hard PB guys that have run it are asking for more.  The MFG did a nice job last Tuesday introducing the Beast at Killington, areas from all over the east attending.   Now lets see who will install the 25' overhead doors so it will fin in their shops.


Heard the Beast did the Fiddle sans winch. Beastly.


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## mondeo (Feb 9, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Heard the Beast did the Fiddle sans winch. Beastly.


Well, except that the Fiddle got groomed. Not Beastly.


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 12, 2010)

My thoughts on the Bison--after a mere couple hours of playing--can be summed up as follows: I'll take two of 'em!

Love the cat.  All kinds of power, ergonomically sound, easy on the fuel, great front visibility, decent rear visibility, quiet, comfortable, and sexy. :wink:  Ventilation isn't great... just two little side windows.  Although the fan system does have a recirculate or outside air option.  Same tiller as the BR-350.  It's a good one.

Here are some pics of the machine:



















Left a pretty nice pattern, even in over-tilled, worn-out, wind-blown snow:









And here's a wee bit of my handiwork, after the GMVS racers got at it:


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## dmoltz (Feb 12, 2010)

I must say it is a very nice machine and she has a sweet look.  Operators are finding it produces on the hill very well.
The winch is off the hill Doc, back in operation in time to get Harris Hill ready for jumping this weekend.  Yes that sweet PB winch was drawing some interest this week as well.


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## drjeff (Feb 12, 2010)

dmoltz said:


> I must say it is a very nice machine and she has a sweet look.  Operators are finding it produces on the hill very well.
> The winch is off the hill Doc, back in operation in time to get Harris Hill ready for jumping this weekend.  Yes that sweet PB winch was drawing some interest this week as well.



Hmmm, I'm sensing that I might just be getting a regular photo opportunity for a PB 400W in the coming months  

I'm also guessing that I probably WON'T be seeing new, wider doors being installed on Mount Snow's Mountain Ops building to make it "Beastly" :lol:


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## bvibert (Feb 14, 2010)

There's a Bison X demo cat at Sundown this weekend.  Sorry, no pictures.  Seems like it got mixed reviews from the grooming staff, compared to the PB 400 they bought last year.  

Personally I prefer the looks of the Pisten Bullys.


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 14, 2010)

Well, the 400 @ Sundown is a wheel cat, and the Prinoths are stick cats.  Some guys are wheel guys.  Others are stick guys.  Wheel guys hate sticks.  Stick guys hate wheels.  Not sure what the guys at Sundown prefer, but if they like wheels, then they probably didn't like the Bison.

PB makes stick cats too, but the Prinoth guys are quick to point out that sticks have always been Bomb/Prinoth's "A-Game," while PB has traditionally excelled in wheel cats.

The operation of the two brands of cat is very very different.  Takes some real getting used to to swap back and forth.  For example, our operators at Lincoln Peak have been running PBs for a long time.  Most of them didn't like the Bison at all.  Then they brought it to Mt. Ellen.  We're all used to running the Prinoth BR-350, and we loved the Bison.  Then again, aside from one operator at Ellen, we're all stick guys.

Anyway, it's an interesting topic.  As my colleague is fond of saying, they're all crappy after the first hour! :lol:  Actually, I do love running the machines.  But they all have their pros and cons.


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## drjeff (Feb 14, 2010)

Didn't see the Beast parked out with the rest of the groomers today   But I did see that the PB 400 Winch Cat was still here in back corner of the groomer parking area


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## drjeff (Feb 14, 2010)

I stand corrected about the Beast, still at Mount Snow as I can see it on it's 1st pass of the daily grooming run headed up Snowdance with 3 other groomers right now


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## thetrailboss (Mar 8, 2012)

Bump.  How about some "retro" groomer porn from Snowbird?  Circa 1978:


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 8, 2012)

Wish I had some pics of Cannon's first retro grooming equipment.I remember the "packer" was a round barrel stave clad contraption and the "groomer" was pretty much a chain link fence dragged behind the old Tucker cat.


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## bvibert (Mar 9, 2012)

SIKSKIER said:


> Wish I had some pics of Cannon's first retro grooming equipment.I remember the "packer" was a round barrel stave clad contraption and the "groomer" was pretty much a chain link fence dragged behind the old Tucker cat.



We still have some equipment like that hanging around at Sundown.  I want to say they still use the "packer" for something, maybe smoothing the dirt parking lot?  We also have a Tucker that they re-did a few years ago.  It's mostly for show, but it has been put to work pulling the Hooker beer trailer out to the bottom of the bump course the last few springs. :beer:


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## thetrailboss (Mar 9, 2012)

Alta winch-cat porn.  Grooming Extrovert:


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## MarkC (Mar 9, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Bump.  How about some "retro" groomer porn from Snowbird?  Circa 1978:



The one in front is a DMC (DeLorean) 3700.  Nice.


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## jarrodski (Mar 10, 2012)

haha,   ill get some photos of our older cats.  nice dig up.  i didnt realize it was a BUMP until the bison demo at sundown mention.  

wheel vs stick for us here?   our machines are reliable, so coming from the old equipment to "still in the plastic" new means we dont really care.  personally, i like the wheel.  it tracks straight and allows for many multi tasking options when we're grooming park features.  sticks were fine, but i cant text / send photos and drive at the same time :dunce:  i can steer, wag tiller, work plow, talk on the phone and drink a coffee with an arm in a sling (2 years ago)  if we had stick cats i wouldnt have been able to work, as my arm was operated on and very imobilized.  

hated the bison x.   blind spots all over.  ugh.  plus, as mentioned, going back and forth between brands is weird and i didnt have time to get used to it.  

photos in the morning!


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## dmoltz (Mar 10, 2012)

I like this video the Canyons did, liikely someone has posted it elsewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVCCyZvG5E&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Glenn (Mar 10, 2012)

MarkC said:


> The one in front is a DMC (DeLorean) 3700.  Nice.



I just did a little digging. I had not idea DeLorean was involved in grooming. I had assumed all those single seaters were LMC groomers. However, one site mention he bought the Logan company.  

Regardless, those single seaters are neat. The bump I learned to ski on back in the 80's had two units from Vail. 

Mount snow has a nifty mid 80's LMC that they painted with flames. Kinda hard to see in this pic.


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## dmoltz (Mar 10, 2012)

This is a better picture


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## Glenn (Mar 10, 2012)

ThT thing rocks!  What it got under the hood?  Gasoline straight 6?


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## thetrailboss (Jan 29, 2013)

Bump.  

Ahhhh, yeah great groomer stoke from Alta!

http://www.powdermag.com/videos/lifty-collection-groomer


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## thetrailboss (Jan 29, 2013)

dmoltz said:


> I like this video the Canyons did, liikely someone has posted it elsewhere.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVCCyZvG5E&feature=youtube_gdata_player



And thanks for posting that....I was looking for that a long time ago!


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## thetrailboss (Jan 29, 2013)

Another awesome film:


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## thetrailboss (Apr 12, 2013)

From Sugarbush today....







Nice kitties.


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## octopus (Apr 12, 2013)

that's really cool of park city to give a shout out to the repair/snowcat crew.

i need to learn how to operate a snowcat for future endeavors. what non snow vehicle drives like a cat?tracked bobcat, bulldozer?


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## Hawkshot99 (Apr 12, 2013)

octopus said:


> i need to learn how to operate a snowcat for future endeavors. what non snow vehicle drives like a cat?tracked bobcat, bulldozer?



 it depends on the brand of snow cat. Piston bullys drive with a steering wheel.
Primoth uses a joystick. I do not know what Bombardier uses.
Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> it depends on the brand of snow cat. Piston bullys drive with a steering wheel.
> Primoth uses a joystick. I do not know what Bombardier uses.
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



Prinoth = Bombardier.  Bombardier sold their snow division a few years back Camoplast, who ruined a lot, and then to Prinoth (!)

Prinoth still uses the "BR" prefix for its main line of groomers.


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## catskills (Apr 13, 2013)

At Belleayre the trails groomed by the older Bombardier snow cat seem to do better job than the trails groomed by the brand new PistonBully  cats.


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## andyzee (Apr 14, 2013)

RootDKJ said:


> Nice!  I'd like to be the guy who QC's the cord for the show.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 16, 2013)

Well, this is one way to sell a groomer:


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## thetrailboss (Apr 16, 2013)

Groomer girls:


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## thetrailboss (Apr 16, 2013)

Want to go for a ride?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Bump.  

Sugarloaf has a new groomer....nice kitty:






And it's pink:






Why?  

http://sugarloaf.com/media-room/press-releases/charity-summit-pink-snowcat

Nice touch, Sugarloaf.  You are a class act!


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## MVinME (Dec 20, 2013)

Very nice indeed...


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Some more good pictures:


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Great video of grooming at Sugarloaf:



I had not seen that before!


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## mriceyman (Dec 21, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Great video of grooming at Sugarloaf:
> 
> 
> 
> I had not seen that before!


Nice!!!!!!


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## KD7000 (Dec 21, 2013)

Cool stuff.


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 21, 2013)

If we are going strictly by looks, I think the pisten bully's look better than the prinoths. Not a fan of gray .

How does one learn how to groom? Seems like a profession where the only way to learn is over time with on the job training.


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## BushMogulMaster (Dec 21, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> Seems like a profession where the only way to learn is over time with on the job training.





Yup.


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## BushMogulMaster (Dec 21, 2013)

Not a new machine, but helmet cam vid from a couple weeks ago here at the Coop:


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## thetrailboss (Dec 21, 2013)

Do you have a tiller on the back of that cat or just a drag bar of some kind?


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## BushMogulMaster (Dec 22, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Do you have a tiller on the back of that cat or just a drag bar of some kind?



Just a compactor bar (C-Bar).  Not enough depth for a tiller.  We try to stick with C-Bars as much as possible.  Once you till the snow once, the only way to rejuvenate the surface is to till it again (until a heavy fall of snow).  The more you till, the harder the snow gets...


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## thetrailboss (Dec 22, 2013)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Just a compactor bar (C-Bar).  Not enough depth for a tiller.  We try to stick with C-Bars as much as possible.  Once you till the snow once, the only way to rejuvenate the surface is to till it again (until a heavy fall of snow).  The more you till, the harder the snow gets...



I figured.  I remember a wise man once telling me about the downsides of tillers.


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## BushMogulMaster (Dec 23, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> I figured.  I remember a wise man once telling me about the downsides of tillers.



:beer:


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## thetrailboss (Jan 28, 2014)

Some more good groomer stoke.  First, Sunday River:


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## thetrailboss (Jan 28, 2014)

And Burke:


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 28, 2014)

Is that a  *QBombardier* 350 pushing out that snow?


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## drjeff (Jan 28, 2014)

There should be some great groomer (and snowmaking) porn at Mount Snow the middle of next week as the NSAA East industry trade show is there Tuesday-Thursday


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## thetrailboss (Jan 28, 2014)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Is that a  *QBombardier* 350 pushing out that snow?



Ah yes, good point.  It is a Qroomer pushing out Qsnow at QBurke.


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 28, 2014)

I went through a bunch of my grooming photos the other night, and thought it would be fun to put together a little slideshow portfolio.  More corduroy than cat pix, but a few good ones stuffed in there.

Fullscreen and 720p for best quality:


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## thetrailboss (Jan 29, 2014)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I went through a bunch of my grooming photos the other night, and thought it would be fun to put together a little slideshow portfolio.  More corduroy than cat pix, but a few good ones stuffed in there.
> 
> Fullscreen and 720p for best quality:



Nice stoke!  Lots of great Ellen pix!


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## thetrailboss (Feb 3, 2014)

Good shot from Killington:


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 3, 2014)

That new(ish) PB AlpinFlex tiller cutter bar has a super aggressive tooth pattern.  Great for harder snow!


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## thetrailboss (Dec 26, 2014)

BOOM!  From Alta...pushing the new pow that we got over the past few days...


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## VTKilarney (Dec 26, 2014)

Send some our way!


.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> BOOM!  From Alta...pushing the new pow that we got over the past few days...



Gotta love some Pisten Bully porn!


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2014)

And you can own your own.....



http://www.newenglandskimuseum.com/remote-control-pisten-bully/


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## ss20 (Jun 14, 2015)

Bump

Yep.  That's corrgulated pipe. 


Instagram said this was from the 1970s


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Bump
> 
> Yep.  That's corrgulated pipe.
> View attachment 17043
> ...



Is the first one Tenney?


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## benski (Jun 15, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Is the first one Tenney?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Looks like Thunder Ridge. 


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2015)

benski said:


> Looks like Thunder Ridge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



The only thing I recognize is the blue Borvig Triple.  

And for fans, Tucker Sno-Cat has a pretty good FB page:  https://www.facebook.com/originalsnocat?fref=ts

Some recent highlights:





















And a classic:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2015)

One just for the Pats Fan:


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## BushMogulMaster (Jun 18, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Bump
> 
> Yep.  That's corrgulated pipe.



Corrugated rollers were the grooming implement of choice in soft snow for years, and their rolling-stock counterpart, the Powder Maker, was the implement of choice for harder conditions. Rollers are still somewhat commonly employed in pre-season packing efforts.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 23, 2015)

For those with some coin, here are some machines for sale:

http://www.resortboneyard.com/l/snowcats


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## Glenn (Jun 23, 2015)

The area I grew up at had one of those rollers. They'd pull it with an older LMC cat from Vail.


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## Sotto (Jun 24, 2015)

benski said:


> Looks like Thunder Ridge.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


It's Thunder Ridge aka Big Birch, we still have the LMC and rollers on the property. We have been tossing the idea of bringing them back to life, but other projects take priority.  Here's a few more from the archive:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 24, 2015)

Sotto said:


> It's Thunder Ridge aka Big Birch, we still have the LMC and rollers on the property. We have been tossing the idea of bringing them back to life, but other projects take priority.  Here's a few more from the archive:
> View attachment 17092View attachment 17093View attachment 17094



Schweet.  Love it!


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## dlague (Jun 24, 2015)

Someone had to do this!


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## thetrailboss (Jun 24, 2015)

dlague said:


> Someone had to do this!



Love it!


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## ss20 (Jun 24, 2015)

Sotto said:


> It's Thunder Ridge aka Big Birch, we still have the LMC and rollers on the property. We have been tossing the idea of bringing them back to life, but other projects take priority.  Here's a few more from the archive:
> View attachment 17092View attachment 17093View attachment 17094



That's awesome.  Love it!  Hope the mountain keeps posting more of these historical photos.


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## Sotto (Jun 24, 2015)

ss20 said:


> That's awesome.  Love it!  Hope the mountain keeps posting more of these historical photos.



Well I just used my next three weeks of #tbt so I guess I'll have to dig up some more.


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## dlague (Jun 30, 2015)




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## thetrailboss (Jun 30, 2015)

Yes, chicks groom:





More DV action:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 30, 2015)

Prinoth promo film.....


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## dlague (Jun 30, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes, chicks groom:



I like groomed chicks!


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## drjeff (Jul 1, 2015)

dlague said:


> I like groomed chicks!



Thanks dlague!  I now have to clean the iced tea spit/spray off my monitor after laughing so hard after reading that post! :lol:


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## dlague (Jul 1, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Thanks dlague!  I now have to clean the iced tea spit/spray off my monitor after laughing so hard after reading that post! :lol:



You're welcome!  Could not resist!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 19, 2015)

AWESOME background images found here:  https://www.pistenbully.com/usa/en/...Hash=c615d122c4a8de31e9f8bf775259095a61048fd9

Sample:


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

Bump. Some action from Snowbird:









And anyone know what this is?




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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

Canyon's kitties....





Yes, that's a Beast down there:










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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

This looks like an early version of the Beast. It's the same size:





More Pisten Bullies:








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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

*&quot;Beastly&quot; groomer porn*

Seats still wrapped in plastic....










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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

Park City's new cats...plastic on the seats.










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## drjeff (Nov 15, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> This looks like an early version of the Beast. It's the same size:
> 
> View attachment 17853
> 
> View attachment 17854



Pretty sure that's the same cat I did a ride along in at the Canyons about 4 years ago.  Technically then it was known as the BR500, and yup, it is the Beast, but before Pinafarino did the new exterior styling for Prinoth







That's me in the maroon coat in the passenger's seat


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Pretty sure that's the same cat I did a ride along in at the Canyons about 4 years ago.  Technically then it was known as the BR500, and yup, it is the Beast, but before Pinafarino did the new exterior styling for Prinoth
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sweet!


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## thetrailboss (Nov 20, 2015)

Alta's green cat....as in a hybrid diesel/electric:


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## buellski (Nov 20, 2015)

Sunapee's new Prinoth Bison X


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 21, 2015)

Our new arrival at Cooper:











Yours truly testing out the new rig (note that regardless of my title or career progression, this is where I _really_ belong!):






Love that Alpine Flex cord! Smoother and more seamless than the BR cord beside it.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 21, 2015)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Our new arrival at Cooper:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sweet 


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 17, 2015)

Since the weather is terrible in the east, here are some nice shots from A-Basin.  They are grooming Montezuma Bowl which does not have snowmaking.  They utilize a lot of snow fencing/farming to enable that area to open.


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## BushMogulMaster (Dec 17, 2015)

No snowmaking here at Cooper... just 100% Momma Nature's Best, and fortunately she's decided to be nice to us so far. I don't get out in the cat nearly as much as I'd like anymore, but did spend half a shift yesterday:


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 18, 2015)

Nice pictures! And it looks like a nice greom, too


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## thetrailboss (Dec 18, 2015)

BushMogulMaster said:


> No snowmaking here at Cooper... just 100% Momma Nature's Best, and fortunately she's decided to be nice to us so far. I don't get out in the cat nearly as much as I'd like anymore, but did spend half a shift yesterday:



Sweet! 


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## thetrailboss (Apr 7, 2016)

Bump.  

This winch is for you!  PCMR April 2016


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## thetrailboss (Apr 7, 2016)

Great photos here.....

http://photos.parkrecord.com/2016/03/11/photos-the-art-of-the-groom/#1


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## cdskier (Apr 7, 2016)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I went through a bunch of my grooming photos the other night, and thought it would be fun to put together a little slideshow portfolio.  More corduroy than cat pix, but a few good ones stuffed in there.
> 
> Fullscreen and 720p for best quality:



Can't believe I never read through this thread until now. Great pics of Mt Ellen on this slideshow! Was also interesting to read that at Sugarbush LP was all PB and ME had a mix of Prinoth and PB cats. I see the grooming fleet at LP on a regular basis from the Super Bravo lift so knew they were all PB, but I rarely see the groomers at ME. I wonder if they still have some Prinoth cats over there.

I actually took a pretty cool pic from the summit of LP last weekend where you can see 4 of LP's grooming fleet just finishing up the Valley House side and heading back to the garage through the base area all in a row. I didn't realize they were even in the pic at the time I took it.


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## JaneGibb (Apr 7, 2016)

That's huge beast! I love them. They are my friends when snow becomes so thick...


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## Newpylong (Apr 8, 2016)

Great picture.


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## FBGM (Apr 8, 2016)

Beasts are the king of Prinoths fleet of crap. Huge waste of money. Their size doesn't make up for their cost upfront and fuel. And, it's a Prinoth, which put down a poor product.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 8, 2016)

FBGM said:


> Beasts are the king of Prinoths fleet of crap. Huge waste of money. Their size doesn't make up for their cost upfront and fuel. And, it's a Prinoth, which put down a poor product.



Sounds like you are a PB fan.


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## Newpylong (Apr 8, 2016)

FBGM said:


> Beasts are the king of Prinoths fleet of crap. Huge waste of money. Their size doesn't make up for their cost upfront and fuel. And, it's a Prinoth, which put down a poor product.



Do your 5K hour rebuilds on them and Prinoths are fine machines.


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## FBGM (Apr 8, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> Do your 5K hour rebuilds on them and Prinoths are fine machines.



If you have to rebuild engines at 5,000 hours on anything, you're doing it wrong. That's like rebuilding your Chevy small block at 50,000 miles. 

Also, old BRs have Cat engines. Best engine besides the old Benz engines in the older and some new PBs. Those will go 15,000 hours and be fine. 

What it comes down to is Prinoths leave a shit pass, have fallen behind in times, no upgrades and a service side of operations that doesn't care


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## BushMogulMaster (Apr 8, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Can't believe I never read through this thread until now. Great pics of Mt Ellen on this slideshow! Was also interesting to read that at Sugarbush LP was all PB and ME had a mix of Prinoth and PB cats. I see the grooming fleet at LP on a regular basis from the Super Bravo lift so knew they were all PB, but I rarely see the groomers at ME. I wonder if they still have some Prinoth cats over there.
> 
> I actually took a pretty cool pic from the summit of LP last weekend where you can see 4 of LP's grooming fleet just finishing up the Valley House side and heading back to the garage through the base area all in a row. I didn't realize they were even in the pic at the time I took it.



The whole fleet is PBs now, to my knowledge. They offloaded the BR350 a few years ago. I think they're running mostly PB600s now.

The BR350 was a purchase for ME parks, basically. The park groomer at the time was a huge Prinoth guy, and somehow managed to convince the powers that be to purchase a yellow machine for him. We called it the "Atomic Lemon." BR350 is a great machine to run, but we had so much trouble with that machine.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 8, 2016)

BushMogulMaster said:


> The whole fleet is PBs now, to my knowledge. They offloaded the BR350 a few years ago. I think they're running mostly PB600s now.
> 
> The BR350 was a purchase for ME parks, basically. The park groomer at the time was a huge Prinoth guy, and somehow managed to convince the powers that be to purchase a yellow machine for him. We called it the "Atomic Lemon." BR350 is a great machine to run, but we had so much trouble with that machine.



Was it made after Bombardier sold the division to Prinoth?


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## Newpylong (Apr 8, 2016)

FBGM said:


> If you have to rebuild engines at 5,000 hours on anything, you're doing it wrong. That's like rebuilding your Chevy small block at 50,000 miles.
> 
> Also, old BRs have Cat engines. Best engine besides the old Benz engines in the older and some new PBs. Those will go 15,000 hours and be fine.
> 
> What it comes down to is Prinoths leave a shit pass, have fallen behind in times, no upgrades and a service side of operations that doesn't care



Didn't say engine. Prinoth recommends a 5,000-6,000 hour maintenance cycle that includes rebuilding or replacement of the hydraulic motors, fittings and hoses among other things. That is what I was referring to. I think the PBs are better machines but the Prinoths run fine if maintained and you're decent behind the stick.


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## cdskier (Apr 8, 2016)

BushMogulMaster said:


> The whole fleet is PBs now, to my knowledge. They offloaded the BR350 a few years ago. I think they're running mostly PB600s now.
> 
> The BR350 was a purchase for ME parks, basically. The park groomer at the time was a huge Prinoth guy, and somehow managed to convince the powers that be to purchase a yellow machine for him. We called it the "Atomic Lemon." BR350 is a great machine to run, but we had so much trouble with that machine.



Thanks for the response! I love details on equipment and stuff like this.


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## BushMogulMaster (Apr 10, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> Was it made after Bombardier sold the division to Prinoth?



Well, it was right in the transition from Campoplast to Prinoth. It was branded Prinoth, but was probably an early build. Maybe even built when the company was under the Camoplast umbrella. I can't help but wonder if some of the corporate nonsense filtered down to the production line and led to a bit of confusion. But who knows.

Also, to FBGM, old BRs were all Cummins power plants (the old 8.3l mechanical beasties). They didn't switch to Caterpillar until the BR350 (or maybe the BR2000?) when they started putting the C9 in them. What a disaster! Cat invented the HEUI fuel system. Works fine in my Powerstroke (an International engine), but I've seen nothing but trouble and expensive maintenance from HEUI engines on snowcats.

And I can't agree that Prinoths leave a shit pass. Yes, the AlpineFlex from PB is superior. But the Prinoth posiflex is 100x better than old crappy Tiller 2000 that PB put on their machines until the AlpineFlex came out in 2010 in the US. Prinoth's tiller, with a more aggressive tooth pattern, the rubber comb, and the snow chamber was revolutionary. Blew PB out of the water until recently. Now the AlpineFlex is definitely the way to go IMO. But to call the Prinoth tiller's product a "shit pass" is unfair, unless your only point of reference is an old, worn-out Bombi tiller that bounces around on hard snow.


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## FBGM (Apr 13, 2016)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Well, it was right in the transition from Campoplast to Prinoth. It was branded Prinoth, but was probably an early build. Maybe even built when the company was under the Camoplast umbrella. I can't help but wonder if some of the corporate nonsense filtered down to the production line and led to a bit of confusion. But who knows.
> 
> Also, to FBGM, old BRs were all Cummins power plants (the old 8.3l mechanical beasties). They didn't switch to Caterpillar until the BR350 (or maybe the BR2000?) when they started putting the C9 in them. What a disaster! Cat invented the HEUI fuel system. Works fine in my Powerstroke (an International engine), but I've seen nothing but trouble and expensive maintenance from HEUI engines on snowcats.
> 
> And I can't agree that Prinoths leave a shit pass. Yes, the AlpineFlex from PB is superior. But the Prinoth posiflex is 100x better than old crappy Tiller 2000 that PB put on their machines until the AlpineFlex came out in 2010 in the US. Prinoth's tiller, with a more aggressive tooth pattern, the rubber comb, and the snow chamber was revolutionary. Blew PB out of the water until recently. Now the AlpineFlex is definitely the way to go IMO. But to call the Prinoth tiller's product a "shit pass" is unfair, unless your only point of reference is an old, worn-out Bombi tiller that bounces around on hard snow.







Prinoth pass is garbage. Only people that like to run them and like the pass are old school operators who in this day of grooming need to be phased out. 

Cat engines are good. Cats in the Prinoths are good. Have had 10k plus on 350s no issues. Cummins in the 400pb have had some issues, but nothing that takes away from the rest of the cat.


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## BushMogulMaster (Apr 13, 2016)

FBGM said:


> Prinoth pass is garbage. Only people that like to run them and like the pass are old school operators who in this day of grooming need to be phased out.



I've already agreed that I prefer the PB AlpineFlex. But... could you kindly substantiate your claim a little more? What precisely about the tiller design causes this "garbage"? What exactly is "garbage" about the pass? What exactly about those so-called "old school operators" is bad, and what needs "phasing out"? What's wrong with this product (how is it detrimental to skiing quality? To the area? To the operator? What's wrong with this operator's work/mentality that he should be "phased out"?):


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## BushMogulMaster (Apr 13, 2016)

FBGM said:


> Cat engines are good. Cats in the Prinoths are good. Have had 10k plus on 350s no issues. Cummins in the 400pb have had some issues, but nothing that takes away from the rest of the cat.



We've had a lot of trouble with HEUI pumps and injectors, and the under-valve-cover injector harness is a real pain on the C9. And those unit injectors are expensive! But we've had some hiccups with the Cummins QSL9 in the 400s as well. But I agree - not enough to detract from the rest of the machine. 400s are solid cats, great to run, and they make a great product. Very little to complain about on the 400. Love that AlpineFlex cord!


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## Newpylong (Apr 13, 2016)

FBGM said:


> Prinoth pass is garbage. Only people that like to run them and like the pass are old school operators who in this day of grooming need to be phased out.



:-o


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## dlague (Dec 9, 2016)

Here is a video that a friend of mine made.  He is a groomer at Jimminy Peak.


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## tree_skier (Dec 9, 2016)

OMG I am picturing GS turns


























[/QUOTE]


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 9, 2017)

From Stowe's Facebook Feed.  That's some pretty awesome Alpenglow and 3 Groomers taboot!


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 17, 2017)

A new Cat in my fleet [emoji1] 




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## thetrailboss (Feb 17, 2017)

jimmywilson69 said:


> A new Cat in my fleet [emoji1]
> 
> 
> View attachment 21867View attachment 21868
> ...



Siiiiick!


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## Dickc (Mar 2, 2019)

https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0bTXI_qfZRUSylCAAptSQ3uxQ

Borrowed from the Sunday River Community.  Ooops! We burnt one!


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## thetrailboss (Mar 2, 2019)

Dickc said:


> https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0bTXI_qfZRUSylCAAptSQ3uxQ
> 
> Borrowed from the Sunday River Community.  Ooops! We burnt one!



Damn that sucks.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 18, 2019)

2 winch cats working SuperStar right now. 

also another pushing out the snow at the base


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 18, 2019)

I'm probably overdue to dump a bunch of groomer stoke here. Let's start with a fun little video I made in PA:


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 18, 2019)

And another one with a demo new Bison X:


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 18, 2019)

Here are a few photos from a Boardercross venue build last year at Cooper, CO. Started the project in one of Cooper's PB 400s, until the Bison X arrived from Prinoth for the build.










This was the finished product:


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 18, 2019)

A few from PA:


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 18, 2019)

Ahhhhh, sweet PA cords (and some creative tie-ins to pass the time):


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## BushMogulMaster (Nov 18, 2019)

The fun never ends. There's always another project.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 19, 2019)

Thanks for the photos of my local Hill Patrick!  Will you be back this year working the snow? 

I still can't believe they bought a winch cat to do the steeps!  It has made a noticeable difference from when they could only groom downhill on those steep pitches, I will say.


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## JimG. (Nov 19, 2019)

Patrick it's great to see you enjoying life in the ski industry!


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## Keelhauled (Nov 19, 2019)

Well great, now you've gone and made me sad I'm not running a cat this year.  Thanks a lot.


----------

