# is december gonna be a wash



## skidbump (Dec 13, 2006)

Kinda lookin like a suck ass next few weeks and with me being able to ski 7 days a weeks it really sucks sittin and waitin for friggin cold weather...belleayre 12/12 was spring conditions"good spring conditions" but i want cold..i want bitter cold..i want it so cold that only the die hards go out and all little kids are crying cause they have frozen hands and feet.....sorry needed to rant

thanks
Pat


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## nelsapbm (Dec 13, 2006)

Today is certainly going to be a wash. The one good thing to come out of it is that I won't have to take my car through the car wash this week.


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## Greg (Dec 13, 2006)

I said this about November too. Better now than in January. However, I would still like to see some better bases being built right now. Nevertheless, the ski areas are doing a great job putting down the snow when they can. I too would like cold weather, but I'd rather have consistent long-term cold over a 2-3 week cold snap and then a warm-up again. I'm not saying that since Nov. and Dec. had these warm spells that it won't warm up later in the winter, but I'm at least hoping it will stay cold once it gets cold. All in all, I'm still optimistic, and at least we are able to slide around on _something _unlike the middle of November.


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## threecy (Dec 13, 2006)

If this keeps up, get ready for higher ticket prices next year!  Costs are way up and revenues are way down, across the board.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 13, 2006)

I just hope that the pattern switches back soon.  We were saying in November, "better now than later," and now we are saying that again.  But if this keeps up, there won't be any season left to wait for  

So far, the weather up here is not too bad.  It is foggy and rainy, but Killington has a solid base and the temps are looking to get colder later this week.


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## CapeSkier (Dec 13, 2006)

I know it has been better in the past, but isn't December always a dicey proposition?  More reliable weather usually hits in January.  I don't like it either, but chances are very good that this whole thing will be moot a couple of weeks from now.


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## Vortex (Dec 13, 2006)

You know....  Can't contol it.  At least you can get out if you want to.  I'm lookign forward to this weekend as much as any other ski weekend.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 13, 2006)

better start getting colder and snowing, dont want my Smuggs trip mid Jan to be a wash,,,,,,


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## loafer89 (Dec 13, 2006)

Last friday night was downright delightful and I have been waiting all summer for painfully cold weather, but the 180 degree turn around to warmer weather by saturday afternoon was depressing. I am only 35 years old, but I cannot remember such a quick hitting and modifying shot of Artic air.

Half of December has already been a wash, and I am not very hopefull for the rest of the month.

At least we have spring skiing in mid-December:lol:


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## andyzee (Dec 13, 2006)

This winter really sucks, I mean it's too warm, there's no snow, we got rain, a late start to season. Price of gas is up, why drive to the mountains and spend money on these crappy conditions. My suggestion is that everyone put away their equipment and stay home for the rest of the season, hey, there's always next year. Cut your losses, aggravation is no good for you health. As far as this season goes, don't worry about it, I'll be a trooper. I promise to get out as much as I can and take as many pics of all the crappy conditions and report back to you as much as possible. Remember, there's always next year.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 13, 2006)

Bob R said:


> You know....  Can't contol it.  At least you can get out if you want to.  I'm lookign forward to this weekend as much as any other ski weekend.



I agree.  I can't complain.  Have five days under my belt so far for this season.  Last two were really good.  

But I understand that the original author is in a situation where he is trying to ski in the Catskills, which are south of where I am.


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## Jean-Pierre Skier (Dec 13, 2006)

My ski shop guys did some research about historical weather patterns in the VT - NH area over the past couple of decades.  It seems as if these types of weather patterns in November - December aren't unusual and often lead to snowy and cold weather in January-March.  Remember two years ago?  We had the same thing.  No snow in November - Mid January and then we got dumped on every week through March.  A great ski year.

Just keep avoiding the rocks until the snow comes!


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## loafer89 (Dec 13, 2006)

I Also think that we have a good chance a cold and snowy January-February, but a good portion of the ski season will already have been lost by that point and more importantly this current warm weather, especially in the big cities keeps people from thinking about skiing as much as they could be and this may hit ski area bottom lines quite hard.

Last year the skiing from mid-January through March was largely uncrowded because alot of the average joe skiers gave up on the season after a lousy December and MLK weekend. At least this was my observation with skiing in the Poconos, Catskills and Greens after that time period,


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## Jean-Pierre Skier (Dec 13, 2006)

loafer89 said:


> I Also think that we have a good chance a cold and snowy January-February, but a good portion of the ski season will already have been lost by that point and more importantly this current warm weather, especially in the big cities keeps people from thinking about skiing as much as they could be and this may hit ski area bottom lines quite hard.
> 
> Last year the skiing from mid-January through March was largely uncrowded because alot of the average joe skiers gave up on the season after a lousy December and MLK weekend. At least this was my observation with skiing in the Poconos, Catskills and Greens after that time period,



I thought that by moving from sales of day lift tickets to inexpensive season passes like the All East Pass and the S-S-O Value Pass, the big ski companies in Vermont and New Hampshire are effectively locking in their revenue from ticket sales.  Now, smaller crowds do hurt them in the concessions and lodging areas of their income statements, but I'm not sure it's as disasterous as a bad snow year used to be for the mountains.  Thoughts?


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 13, 2006)

Season Pass sales is important revenue for ski resorts in August/Sept/October that they need to get things going. Xmas is critical and I can only assume that people are starting to call to cancel their holiday trips or try to. Alot of Xmas vacations have very restrictive cancellation policies so if you don't take action at least 2 weeks prior to your arrival it's going to cost you alot to cancel later.

Last year in Vermont skier visits were down 6%, with kmart down 19% and Mt Snow down 15%. So far this year it isn't getting any better.

The other night there was an interesting show on the History Channel that showed there was a global warm-up 900-1300AD following by the "Little Ice Age". That's how Greenland got it's name from the Vikings arriving when the place was full of grasses and other foliage. When the "little Ice Age" came it killed the Vikings off. So don't dispair, if history is any judge, this warm-up will be over in 3-400 years....


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## goldsbar (Dec 13, 2006)

I don't have any Xmas plans but I'm hesitating on booking a mid-January vacation to Sugarbush/MRG.  Not driving 5+ hours for a few groomers...  I can find that in the Catskills.  My guess is many others are doing the same.


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## loafer89 (Dec 13, 2006)

My thinking is that if ski conditions are still the same as they are right now at this time next month, ie, little natural snow and mostly snowmaking groomers, this ski season will be in trouble.

I would say that in regard to season pass sales, better than 75% of the skiers that I saw at Sugarloaf and Sunday River last weekend where season pass holders. Who would want to pay full price to ski on limited terrain?

I never thought I would say this, but so far this season is worse than last year.:x 

That will not stop me from skiing, last night was alot of fun, the snow was great for carving, and the temperatures where very comfortable for a night in Mid-December.

There is always the trip to Colorado in February to look forward to:grin:


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 13, 2006)

In my opinion as the natural snowdepths are again shrinking, this winter is so far mirroring the 2001-2002 season better than the 2004-2005 season. In the below graphs you can see that natural snow depths on Mt. Mansfield nearly bottomed out for over a month in November and December.
For more go to: http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=mansel.php3

2004-2005 (black line is 2006)






2001-2002


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## Greg (Dec 13, 2006)

loafer89 said:


> I never thought I would say this, but so far this season is worse than last year.:x



Absolutely. Last December was fnatastic. It's still too early to compare seasons.


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## loafer89 (Dec 13, 2006)

Greg said:


> Absolutely. Last December was fnatastic. It's still too early to compare seasons.


 

Yep, I remember powder skiing at Killington on the 17th of the month and we also had a nice dump for Thanksgiving as well.

Sugarloaf was a total disapointment on saturday, and looking up at all of the delicious terrain higher up on the mountain was enough to make me want to :sad:


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## JimG. (Dec 13, 2006)

thetrailboss said:


> But I understand that the original author is in a situation where he is trying to ski in the Catskills, which are south of where I am.



Your point?

I ski in the Catskills and I've got as many days in as you. And I think there are as many ski areas open in NY as in VT or NH or anywhere else in the East.

The weather is difficult for anyone who skis on the east coast. But the opportunities do exist to ski as you and I have found out. 

So just get out there.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 13, 2006)

JimG. said:


> Your point?
> 
> I ski in the Catskills and I've got as many days in as you. And I think there are as many ski areas open in NY as in VT or NH or anywhere else in the East.
> 
> ...



I understand what he said he wants:  colder temps.  Up north, we've had colder temps than down in the 'skills.  Not much colder, but colder.  


> but i want cold..i want bitter cold..i want it so cold that only the die hards go out and all little kids are crying cause they have frozen hands and feet.....sorry needed to rant


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## JimG. (Dec 13, 2006)

thetrailboss said:


> I understand what he said he wants:  colder temps.  Up north, we've had colder temps than down in the 'skills.  Not much colder, but colder.



But I don't think that's the kind of cold he was talking about...he's talking about cold like last Friday.

I know, splitting hairs. Everyone is getting burned by the weather right now.


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## loafer89 (Dec 13, 2006)

I was just reading the latest forecast discussion for my area (Hartford) and the weather guessers say a pattern change is happening for early next week and we will have cold weather for at least the period of the 18-20th and this MAY signal the beginings of a more permanent pattern change:

Right now it is pouring rain here in bloomfield:smash: :uzi: :flame:


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## andyzee (Dec 13, 2006)

Always look on the bright side of life. 
[whistling] 
Always look on the light side of life. 
[whistling] 
If life seems jolly rotten, There's something you've forgotten, And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing. When you're feeling in the dumps, Don't be silly chumps. Just purse your lips and whistle. That's the thing. And... 
Always look on the bright side of life.
 [whistling] 
Always look on the right side of life,
 [whistling] 
For life is quite absurd And death's the final word. You must always face the curtain with a bow. Forget about your sin. Give the audience a grin. Enjoy it. It's your last chance, anyhow. So,... 
Always look on the bright side of death,
 [whistling] 
Just before you draw your terminal breath. 
[whistling] 
Life's a piece of shit, When you look at it. Life's a laugh and death's a joke. It's true. You'll see it's all a show. Keep 'em laughing as you go. Just remember that the last laugh is on you. And... 
Always look on the bright side of life. 
[whistling] 
Always look on the right side of life. 
[whistling] 
Always look on the bright side of life! [whistling] Always look on the bright side of life! 
[whistling]
 Always look on the bright side of life! 
[whistling]
 Always look on the bright side of life!
 [whistling]
 Always look on the bright side of life! 
[whistling] 
Always look on the bright side of life!
 [whistling] 
Always look on the bright side of life!
 [whistling] 
Always look on the bright side of life! 
[whistling] 
Killington up to 42 trails open!
[whistling with raindrops falling on head  ]


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## Plowboy (Dec 13, 2006)

JimG. said:


> Everyone is getting burned by the weather right now.



So far my Nov and Dec billing is going to take about 30 seconds to do.


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## askstowell (Dec 13, 2006)

I think we just all need one big group therapy session!  This is getting depressing...

My 10 year old daughter' s first race practice is supposed to be tomorrow night, she hasn't been on skis yet this season (last year we were already out once or twice), and she's all bummed this morning wondering if they'll be snow tomorrow night.  I said maybe next Thursday night.  Plus, we're getting worried about our 2 days at Sugarbush coming up the last week of the month...


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## ajl50 (Dec 13, 2006)

I just put the ski's away and got out the bar-b-que. When's baseball season start. Who do you all have in the NBA finals- I say the clippers finish off their surprise run with a win over the  shaq less heat. 

No really everybody get a grip. I hate this weather too but relax. Every winter has warm and rainy periods. Some feature less, some feature more. There is no way to really tell what is coming. I have seen models with a xmas day huge snowstorm. I have seen models with a ridge runner low pressure that drops 20+ from Kmart to whiteface. I've seen models that make 12/25 to 1/15 in the northeast a mirror image of hudson bay canada and  others that make it late march. 
Relax- we'll some natural snow and nighttime/early am/ later afternoon snow making temps for northern area's starting middle of next week. 
By may we'll all just remember the good skiing anyway.


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## JimG. (Dec 13, 2006)

Plowboy said:


> So far my Nov and Dec billing is going to take about 30 seconds to do.



Ouch!

Sir, you have a real reason to bitch about the weather!


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## MarkC (Dec 13, 2006)

askstowell said:


> I think we just all need one big group therapy session!  This is getting depressing...



Hunter on Friday should do the trick.  I can't speak for anybody else but I am excited.  The weather is the weather.  The point I am trying to make is there is snow on the ground and the lifts are running in just about every skiable regin.  It might not be the best and your home mountain might not be open yet (mine is not) but get out and enjoy what is available.  It could be worse.  At least it is not June.


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## ccskier (Dec 13, 2006)

Ok, I will agree we are in some sort of trend.  Hopefully we will not jump into the snowless usual cold month of January.  We tend to get some decent snow in December, Thaw and rain during xmas week and then iced up for January.  Just stinks that this year we don't have the December snow for the base.  

I have 3 days in so far.  Usually hit 10 by xmas, not this year.  Don't plan on going back up until New Years.  Baby coming in January so that month will be hectic then back to skiing in February.  So much for buying a seasons pass to the "Most Snow in the East", Move up.  I had to complain for at least a minute.


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## SnowRider (Dec 13, 2006)

> Always look on the bright side of life.
> [whistling]
> Always look on the light side of life.
> [whistling]
> ...



I just sang the whole thing and................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. I still dont feel that wonderful...maybe i should take time and look at the bright side of life


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## billski (Dec 13, 2006)

*butt butt butttttttt*



threecy said:


> If this keeps up, get ready for higher ticket prices next year!  Costs are way up and revenues are way down, across the board.



but...but...but.....they aren't burning dollars making snow.....:-(


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## andyzee (Dec 13, 2006)

SnowRider said:


> I just sang the whole thing and................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. I still dont feel that wonderful...maybe i should take time and look at the bright side of life


 

Might be better if you do it on the snow. Although people may look at you kind of strange, but that only makes it better!


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## billski (Dec 13, 2006)

loafer89 said:


> I was just reading the latest forecast discussion for my area (Hartford) and the weather guessers say a pattern change is happening for early next week and we will have cold weather for at least the period of the 18-20th and this MAY signal the beginings of a more permanent pattern change:
> 
> Right now it is pouring rain here in bloomfield:smash: :uzi: :flame:



will you stop it with the flames??? You're jest contributing to global warming and shortening my ski seas:wink:n


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## loafer89 (Dec 13, 2006)

Bad news here in Bloomfield the fog is getting thicker


And Leon's getting laaaarger.:lol:


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## thebigo (Dec 13, 2006)

I just dont understand all the doom and gloom.

Its still early december, the forecast below for killington doesnt look that negative. A brief rain event today and friday but certainly not a deluge. It also shows marginal snowmaking temps each of the next few nights with excellent snowmaking temps at the start of next week. Granted this is only one place but I would imagine this forecast is similar across most of the major northern new england resorts.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/forecast/Ma...lat=43.182917&smap=1&mp=0&map.x=132&map.y=101


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## awf170 (Dec 13, 2006)

thebigo said:


> I just dont understand all the doom and gloom.



Dude, we are in New Engand.  People find any possible way to complain about the weather.  The only way people won't complain is if every ski area gets 3 ft. a snow a week.  Actually, then everyone would be pissed that they can't get to the mountain.


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## KevinF (Dec 13, 2006)

awf170 said:


> Dude, we are in New Engand.  People find any possible way to complain about the weather.  The only way people won't complain is if every ski area gets 3 ft. a snow a week.  Actually, then everyone would be pissed that they can't get to the mountain.



And most of the ones that do get to the mountain would complain that "nothing's groomed".  And if it is groomed, the rest of us would be complaining that it is groomed.


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## riverc0il (Dec 13, 2006)

thebigo said:


> I just dont understand all the doom and gloom.


i am going to make the following comments without "feeling" one way or the other about them, it is just the facts, just the way the weather is, no use complaining but it is hard to ignore the possibilities or lack there of for this season in some respects.

there is a reason for doom and gloom, and the graph that from_the_nek posted from skivtl's historical records of mansfield shows one big aspect. november is what ever, but december is important for setting up some natural base depth on natural snow trails. once you get behind, it is very statistically difficult for mother nature to catch us back up. i am growing slightly concerned for how well the natural snow trails will hold up this season. we'll see how it plays out, but going into january with absolutely zero base on most natural snow trails is going to be a severe blow for the season overall.

man made snow trails will not take a hit as hard. if you primarily ski groomers, relax. the snow makers are behind but they can catch up pretty quickly once the temps finally plunge. maybe you loose a few weeks of typical "half the ski area open" type skiing, but you'll get all your man made snow trails open within a month.

i ain't saying to go jump ship, two very large dumps and we are back in business though still building base and still not able to attack most natural snow trails until a base firms up. i am saying that the quantity of natural snow days this season will probably be below average. hopefully the quality of the big dumps makes up for lack of base going into the new year. it certainly doesn't bode well for smaller areas and your "skers mountains", especially if they can not open for holiday skiers.


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## awf170 (Dec 13, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> there is a reason for doom and gloom, and the graph that from_the_nek posted from skivtl's historical records of mansfield shows one big aspect. november is what ever, but december is important for setting up some natural base depth on natural snow trails. once you get behind, it is very statistically difficult for mother nature to catch us back up. i am growing slightly concerned for how well the natural snow trails will hold up this season. we'll see how it plays out, but going into january with absolutely zero base on most natural snow trails is going to be a severe blow for the season overall.




I really don't think it is that difficult at all.  

From the looks of it the average base depth at the start of January is 40 inches.  That really isn't that much.  One week with a bunch of clippers and cold weather, and bam there is that base.


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## riverc0il (Dec 13, 2006)

awf170 said:


> I really don't think it is that difficult at all.
> 
> From the looks of it the average base depth at the start of January is 40 inches.  That really isn't that much.  One week with a bunch of clippers and cold weather, and bam there is that base.



40 inches isn't much? as a base, that means that more than 40 inches fell to form that base of 40. that would be two massive storms or at least three big ones. we could be back in it just like that, i stand by my sentiment that is a long shot statistically. 40 inches is 20-25% of many mountains total season snow fall!


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## Jean-Pierre Skier (Dec 14, 2006)

I strongly urge you people to book a flight, head west, and continue this discussion on the chairlift at Alta.


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## Birdman829 (Dec 14, 2006)

Well it can't be worse than last winter right? Right??????????


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## Mark_151 (Dec 14, 2006)

It's all Bush's fault......


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## catskills (Dec 14, 2006)

Mark_151 said:


> It's all Bush's fault......


You got that right.  Everything is his fault :angry: Too much anger in the world and its heating up the planet. :angry:  In 2008 I am voting for a different president.  :smash: :wink: 

I need SNOW bad 

My furnace has been acting up and I have not called the repair guy yet.  I figure it will get real cold. snow four feet, the furnace will stop working, and the repair guy won't be able to make it the house for days.   So far that hasn't worked either. :blink:  I may have to give up on that plan and just call the furnace repair guy.  But then it won't get cold and snow.  I have a real conundrum here.  What to do.  

There was some real smart guy from MIT I think it was that had this idea of dumping all this stuff in the Planet's atmosphere that would reflect the Sun's rays and cool off the planet.  Maybe that's not such a bad idea after all.

My theory is the Moon is getting further away from the Earth every day see .  When the moon and the Sun are in line it results in an eclipse obviously but it also causes Volcano's to erupt due to the gravitational pull on the earth's crust, which puts stuff in the air and cools down the earth.  Because the Moon is not as close to the earth as it use to be and the Sun is getting smaller every day there is less pull on the earth's crust when they are in line.  Therefore less Volcano's eruption stuff thrown into the earth's atmosphere  and the earth gets warmer.  BTW did I tell you I can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge real cheep.  Hey your the one still reading this dribble.


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## loafer89 (Dec 14, 2006)

I made the ultimate sacrafice to the snow gods by giving my snowthrower to my father when I moved up to Connecticut and as a result I am going to be living at nearly 1000' in elevation with no easy way to clear my driveway.


If that does not bring on a blizzard or two, I do not know what will:grin:


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 14, 2006)

> There was some real smart guy from MIT I think it was that had this idea of dumping all this stuff in the Planet's atmosphere that would reflect the Sun's rays and cool off the planet. Maybe that's not such a bad idea after all.



I think I heard about that one too. The only problem being that it would turn the sky pink or something :-D


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## Bandit2941 (Dec 14, 2006)

skidbump said:


> Kinda lookin like a suck ass next few weeks and with me being able to ski 7 days a weeks it really sucks sittin and waitin for friggin cold weather...belleayre 12/12 was spring conditions"good spring conditions" but i want cold..i want bitter cold..i want it so cold that only the die hards go out and all little kids are crying cause they have frozen hands and feet.....sorry needed to rant
> 
> thanks
> Pat



Pat, don't bullsh*t me. If it was that cold you'd be in the lodge crying with the little kids   

Just kidding buddy. Nick was up there on Tuesday, I told him you were probably there but he said he didn't see you.....


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## skidbump (Dec 14, 2006)

ya saw him .didnt recognize him ....


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## Sheik Yerbouti (Dec 14, 2006)

I just hope it starts getting colder and staying colder longer. I just got back into skiing last year, and after last years debacle, I thought it couldn't get any worse. It's only Dec 15th... It's early, and I am hoping it decides to be winter in New England soon.


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## ajl50 (Dec 14, 2006)

just a note here- one year ago today, 12/14/05 NYC recorded it's lowest temp of the ENTIRE winter- 14 degrees. It only got warmer from there. This year i think we'll see the reverse.  Colder from monday/tuesday on.


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## wintersyndrome (Dec 14, 2006)

> I strongly urge you people to book a flight, head west, and continue this discussion on the chairlift at Alta.



best advice Ive seen here so far-though I was thinking Whistler as from weather watching Ive seent that the "Pinepple Express" has been pounding the Pacific NW .

Maybe get a week in there and call it a season


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## loafer89 (Dec 14, 2006)

NOAA is predicting a trend to colder weather next week and what may be a pattern change to more "seasonable" weather for mid December. But it does not look like we will get an Arctic Outbreak, just cold weather for snowmaking. There are several chances for some storms late next week as well as the jetstream will be close to New England.

This is all in the BTV forecast discussion.

At least there is some hope.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 14, 2006)

This is NOT good :-x :-x  :angry: :angry: :-x :-x. Another record falls...


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## Marc (Dec 14, 2006)

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> I just hope it starts getting colder and staying colder longer. I just got back into skiing last year, and after last years debacle, I thought it couldn't get any worse. It's only Dec 15th... It's early, and I am hoping it decides to be winter in New England soon.



Ohh....




So what you're sayin is all this crap this year and last is _your_ fault...


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## Sheik Yerbouti (Dec 14, 2006)

Marc said:


> Ohh....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup, I was just waiting for that pseudo connection to happen. If I could reverse everything and give up skiing just to get you guys good snow, I'd do it. I love the cold and snow, much more than the 90 degree crap in the summer. It's 60 degrees right freaking now, in May this would be a beautiful day. But it's December, mid-December and it's the ugliest day of the year.
I do apologize if me picking up my planks did this. If I am responsible, I am sure the ski gods will see fit that I am held accountable.


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## Grassi21 (Dec 14, 2006)

Marc said:


> Ohh....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great observation Marc.  I can't believe Sheik did this to us.  Greg, please revoke his rights to post.


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## Sheik Yerbouti (Dec 14, 2006)

Grassi21 said:


> Great observation Marc.  I can't believe Sheik did this to us.  Greg, please revoke his rights to post.



Feel the love...


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## loafer89 (Dec 14, 2006)

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Yup, I was just waiting for that pseudo connection to happen. If I could reverse everything and give up skiing just to get you guys good snow, I'd do it. I love the cold and snow, much more than the 90 degree crap in the summer. It's 60 degrees right freaking now, in May this would be a beautiful day. But it's December, mid-December and it's the ugliest day of the year.
> I do apologize if me picking up my planks did this. If I am responsible, I am sure the ski gods will see fit that I am held accountable.


 
Don't you just hate all the meteorologists that keep saying how delightfully warm it is for December?:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:


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## ajl50 (Dec 14, 2006)

I actually believe its my fault. I bought new skis and new boots  in 2006. As did my girlfriend. I'm pretty sure that jinxed us.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 14, 2006)

> Don't you just hate all the meteorologists that keep saying how delightfully warm it is for December?



I wonder if they will still be saying that 30 years from now when we are still running our air conditioners in December? :uzi:  :uzi:


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## Sheik Yerbouti (Dec 14, 2006)

ajl50 said:


> I actually believe its my fault. I bought new skis and new boots  in 2006. As did my girlfriend. I'm pretty sure that jinxed us.



Um.. I got new skis and boots this year too... DAMMIT!


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## bvibert (Dec 14, 2006)

loafer89 said:


> Don't you just hate all the meteorologists that keep saying how delightfully warm it is for December?:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:



Yes, I've actually yelled at the TV on numerous occasions for that very reason!  :angry:


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## Grassi21 (Dec 14, 2006)

loafer89 said:


> Don't you just hate all the meteorologists that keep saying how delightfully warm it is for December?:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:



I start cursing at the TV.  The wife has to calm me down when I hear that stuff.


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## loafer89 (Dec 14, 2006)

A quick check of RSN reveals 40 ski areas that are either closed for today or have not yet opened for the season.

Connecticut: 3 closed
Massachusetts: 10 closed
Vermont: 5 closed
New Hampshire: 10 closed
Maine: 12 closed

Some of the opened areas are hanging on by a thread.

Alot of the closed places are the smaller areas that will start to hurt if the season does not improve


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 14, 2006)

> A quick check of RSN reveals 40 ski areas that are either closed for today or have not yet opened for the season.
> 
> Connecticut: 3 closed
> Massachusetts: 10 closed
> ...



We are almost to the point of having to bring back the "Official Winter has been Cancelled" thread. :uzi:


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## noski (Dec 14, 2006)

*Wait one week....*

Wait until 12/22 before you cancel winter. Got this feeling.....


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## loafer89 (Dec 14, 2006)

noski said:


> Wait until 12/22 before you cancel winter. Got this feeling.....


 

I have the same feeling, but will the cold weather pattern last?

That is the $1,000,000 question.

The only reason that I am not so upset with this warmer weather is because I was surrounded by 4-6" of the real stuff last weekend in Maine, and while that does not seem like alot, it sure did alot to sooth the jonesing for snow.


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## Marc (Dec 14, 2006)

Sheik Yerbouti said:


> Um.. I got new skis and boots this year too... DAMMIT!



Alright, where's my gun?


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## Sheik Yerbouti (Dec 14, 2006)

Marc said:


> Alright, where's my gun?



On the plus side, Sunday River now has 35 trails open... no gun ok?


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## Skibum_dan (Dec 14, 2006)

from_the_NEK said:


> I wonder if they will still be saying that 30 years from now when we are still running our air conditioners in December? :uzi:  :uzi:



Yeah the qualitative terms for describing weather on the news bother me, as they probably do many skiers. Things like, "terrible snow storm" when we get a dumping of snow or "delightfully warm" for the kind of weather we are having right now......

I hope we get a good dump soon to help provide a base in the woods, but even the trails on the map that get groomed/man-made snow are a lot nicer with a fresh serving of the real deal. 

.


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## Skibum_dan (Dec 14, 2006)

At this time of year, when there are few trails open, you kind of have to think of ways to make the same slope more interesting. I'm traditionally on my alpine gear most of the time, but this year I'm trying to get better on my tele early in the season. Last year I remember saying to myself, "I'd like to be pretty 50/50 with my alpine vs. tele time" It was more like 80/20. The thing is, when there is great snow, I want to be on gear I feel good on. Right now is a good time to hone skills on tele for me. If December stays like this, maybe I'll actually get better on tele this year.   .........I'd like to get to the point where I am just as comfortable on tele as I am alpine to make some bc trips a tad more enjoyable/lighter.
hmmm I got to rambling a tad...the point being that when the weather sucks like this and you are confined to a few runs, you have to try a little harder to make it worth your while.....but it can be done.


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## bvibert (Dec 14, 2006)

Marc said:


> Alright, where's my gun?



Easy there tough guy, the only guns I wanna see in here are _SNOW_ guns!


Consider yourself warned...


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## haines (Dec 14, 2006)

Yup Dec is gonna be a total wash get out the hiking boots and train


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## snoseek (Dec 14, 2006)

whatever... I'll take whatever crap mother nature will send. skiing this stuff builds character.
the powder is gonna be x-tra sweet when it comes.


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## Skier75 (Dec 14, 2006)

Yeah, I'm getting a little worried for our Christmas weekend at SR.....I hope it get's colder.....we've only got 2 days in....


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## eatskisleep (Dec 14, 2006)

I saw a mosquito today. :uzi: 

I wore a T-Shirt today (granted I do most days but yeah... no need for a sweatshirt outside) :???: 

Girls were wearing mini-skirts today.    :lol: 


\All I can say is it is mid-december... what is going on?

In the meantime take a look at Colorado, this is a nice read:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52273


And just incase you read the date on that topic and was doubting the snow quality now out there check this out:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70534


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## riverc0il (Dec 14, 2006)

and on the bright side, everyone repeat after me:

"at least we are not snow mobilers."

seriously, yo. at least we got man made. not that that is much to write home about.


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## ALLSKIING (Dec 14, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> and on the bright side, everyone repeat after me:
> 
> "at least we are not snow mobilers."
> 
> seriously, yo. at least we got man made. not that that is much to write home about.


Thats funny Steve..I was thinking the same thing. I have a friend that spent big bucks on his sled and trailer and it just sits there


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## loafer89 (Dec 15, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> and on the bright side, everyone repeat after me:
> 
> "at least we are not snow mobilers."
> 
> seriously, yo. at least we got man made. not that that is much to write home about.


 

Some of us are snowmobilers, ie, ME and last season I did not get the chance to get out at all:-( . While I do not own a sled, I rent one every year at Sugarloaf and now that we live in Connecticut I was thinking about buying one.

As of right now there is no Snowmobiling in Maine, but the extended forecast looks good for snowmaking at the resorts in Maine as well as the chance for some natural snow for sleding.

The forecast is for temps in the single digits next week at night, which is ideal for snowmaking production, GO COLD WEATHER.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2006)

> > Originally Posted by riverc0il
> > and on the bright side, everyone repeat after me:
> >
> > "at least we are not snow mobilers."
> ...



We were just discussing that here at work yesterday. There is a snowmobile trail that runs through the back yard of our building. We were out in short sleeve shirts and flipflops playing frisbie at lunch. The joke was to look both ways before running across the trail  

Seriously though...
These are merely estimates. I'm sure some people spend way more (especially families) and some spend way less (those who live near a mountain).

Skier/snowboarder:
Season Pass = roughly $500 
Average gas $ to/from ski area (assuming a 3 hour drive and 10 trips per year) = roughly $500 ($50per trip)
Lunch in lodge and other meals (x10) = roughly $500/per person ($50 per trip)
Ski equipment for the year = roughly $1000

Year Total estimate = $1500 - $2000

Snowmobiler:
Season Trail Pass (per weekend pass not available) = $95
Average Gas to and from trail heads (remember they are pulling a heavy trailer with a big truck) = $800 ($80 per trip)
Meals and gas for Snow machines = $700 ($70 per day)
Snow machine = $9000
4 sled enclosed Trailer = $4000
Big ass truck to pull loaded snow machine trailer = $35,000
Other gear, equipment, and tune-ups = $1000

Year Total estimate = $50,595

Yea. I really wouldn't ant to be a snowmobiler right now :beer:


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## Skibum_dan (Dec 15, 2006)

Next week looks like it is supposed to get a little colder....
:smile:
I know I have seen posts on this topic before, but while we're talking about weather, does anyone have suggestions on the most accurate on-line weather reports?
December might not be a wash after all. 
All I want for Christmas is snow.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 15, 2006)

its 50 here on Long Island and I'm in shorts at work.....this is nuts....time for a ski sacrifice....


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## loafer89 (Dec 15, 2006)

from_the_NEK said:


> We were just discussing that here at work yesterday. There is a snowmobile trail that runs through the back yard of our building. We were out in short sleeve shirts and flipflops playing frisbie at lunch. The joke was to look both ways before running across the trail
> 
> Seriously though...
> These are merely estimates. I'm sure some people spend way more (especially families) and some spend way less (those who live near a mountain)
> ...


 
Those snowmobile expenses that you mention are a big reason why we rent them ($300 for a full day). That way I can get my fix in a few days a year and not break the bank as skiing is expensive enough on it's own.


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## SnowRider (Dec 15, 2006)

> Snowmobiler:
> Season Trail Pass (per weekend pass not available) = $95
> Average Gas to and from trail heads (remember they are pulling a heavy trailer with a big truck) = $800 ($80 per trip)
> Meals and gas for Snow machines = $700 ($70 per day)
> ...



This is accurate for the first year but the next years you wont need to get a trailer, snowmobiles ect.

 If we are going to add sleds and trailers to the snowmobile total shouldn't we add gas to get to the mountain, skis, thule, boots, and even tune ups? Oh and a couple of speeding tickets for people who live in North Troy:razz:


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2006)

> This is accurate for the first year but the next years you wont need to get a trailer, snowmobiles ect.
> 
> If we are going to add sleds and trailers to the snowmobile total *shouldn't we add gas to get to the mountain,* *skis*, thule, *boots*, and even tune ups? Oh and a couple of speeding tickets for people who live in North Troy





> Originally Posted by from_the_NEK
> We were just discussing that here at work yesterday. There is a snowmobile trail that runs through the back yard of our building. We were out in short sleeve shirts and flipflops playing frisbie at lunch. The joke was to look both ways before running across the trail
> 
> Seriously though...
> ...




I already had gas to and from the mountain included for skiers. Other thoughts have been taken into account below.

Skier/Rider Additions:
Thule Rack = $500
Tune-ups = $150

Revised total = closer to $2000

Snowmobiler:
Okay so they don't have to buy a new sled, trailer, or truck every year but they probably do every 3 years or so. Therefore I will divide those numbers by 3.

Snowmachine = $3000
Trailer = $1333
Truck = $11666

Revised Total = $18594

I'm still seeing a HUGE difference here.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2006)

P.S. Speeding tickets occur just as frequently for snowmobilers as they do for skiers. I see a lot of trucks pulling trailers pulled over every year. Therefore this amount of money becomes a draw and therefore was not included.
 :idea:  :idea:


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## hammer (Dec 15, 2006)

from_the_NEK said:


> Snowmobiler:
> Okay so they don't have to buy a new sled, trailer, or truck every year but they probably do every 3 years or so. Therefore I will divide those numbers by 3.
> 
> Snowmachine = $3000
> ...


3 years for the trailer and truck seems a bit short IMO...I have two cars, one almost 6 YO and the other over 8 YO and they are still going strong even through daily 40 - 50 mile Boston-area commutes.

I don't know the particulars, but I'd think it's obvious that snowmobiling is potentially a lot more expensive than skiing.

Saw a co-worker outside with a short-sleeve shirt...that is so wrong for December...:sad:


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 15, 2006)

Don't forget about the x-c places, while some have snowmaking alot don't.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2006)

> 3 years for the trailer and truck seems a bit short IMO...I have two cars, one almost 6 YO and the other over 8 YO and they are still going strong even through daily 40 - 50 mile Boston-area commutes.



I'm basing the 3 year replacement time purely on what I see as the common trend in equipment setups that I see rolling in to twon up here in Northern VT. Very few of the vehicles are older than 3-4 years and most of the equipment is shiney and new looking. Sure you or I would probably be more frugal with our money but a lot of these folks feel they have to have the biggest/newest/shineyest setup out there.


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## hammer (Dec 15, 2006)

from_the_NEK said:


> I'm basing the 3 year replacement time purely on what I see as the common trend in equipment setups that I see rolling in to twon up here in Northern VT. Very few of the vehicles are older than 3-4 years and most of the equipment is shiney and new looking. Sure you or I would probably be more frugal with our money but a lot of these folks feel they have to have the biggest/newest/shineyest setup out there.


And I've heard that skiing is a rich person's sport...:roll:


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## thetrailboss (Dec 15, 2006)

I am so ready to get 2006 and its lousy weather over with.  

Here's to better weather in 2007!  :beer:


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 15, 2006)

I'm with you on that TB . NOV /DEC 06= uke:


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2006)

hammer said:


> And I've heard that skiing is a rich person's sport...:roll:



It is if buy the $1.5 million ski house to go along with the rest of the expenses :razz: :razz: :razz:


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## ccskier (Dec 15, 2006)

I have a few friends here from the Cape that drive up to Maine all of the time.  They do get new sleds every year, upwards to 10k/machine and drive sweet a$$ trucks.  Mostly 4 door 1-2 year old diesel GMC's or Fords.  Their trailers can also fit up to 5 machines.  A little bit more crazy than skiers.



hammer said:


> 3 years for the trailer and truck seems a bit short IMO...I have two cars, one almost 6 YO and the other over 8 YO and they are still going strong even through daily 40 - 50 mile Boston-area commutes.
> 
> I don't know the particulars, but I'd think it's obvious that snowmobiling is potentially a lot more expensive than skiing.
> 
> Saw a co-worker outside with a short-sleeve shirt...that is so wrong for December...:sad:


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## riverc0il (Dec 15, 2006)

last year hit the economy hard due to sledders staying home because of bad weather. from_the_NEK points out the high costs of the activity, but you also have to look at who that money often goes to.... local hotels, inns, gas stations, restaurants, convenience stores, markets, trail associations, gear shops, etc.

no snow to be found in the StJ/lyndonville area today. but to stick season yet again, it is a sad sight. 8 trails at jay peak tomorrow, woo hoo! :roll:


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## loafer89 (Dec 15, 2006)

The closing on our house got delayed until monday, so we decided to go skiing this weekend at Sunday River and we just arrived.

The drive up was interesting with thick fog on the Maine Pike and near zero visibility  on route 26 north where the fog became freezing fog around Paris.

Right now we have in and out fog mixed with clear skies and it is 26F on the condo thermometer. We walked on the snow at the South Ridge area when we checked in and it is frozen solid, yummy.

Perhaps we will have some snowmaking tonight and on saturday night, but things are sad looking 10 days from Christmas.

I will report on the ice skating tomorrow .


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## thetrailboss (Dec 16, 2006)

Warp Daddy said:


> I'm with you on that TB . NOV /DEC 06= uke:



I think you mean:  

JAN FEB MARCH (Except for ten days) APRIL MAY OCT NOV DEC 06 = uke:

:wink:


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## kingslug (Dec 16, 2006)

Well, after reading all this.......I'm even more depressed. Think I might hit Hunter on Monday..even if it rains...alone if neccessary.


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## ajl50 (Dec 16, 2006)

I've been pretty certain, and have said so many times,  that around the 20-22nd of this month we would see winter return and NE would get some real snow between then and the 27th. Furthermore I was pretty confident that this would mark a long term return to NORMAL temps. 
Well up to this am that is. The pattern is the pattern and it's not changing. Warm will be the rule and normal will be cold and it will be short lived. Sorry. Feb. is the only winter month I actually believe in right now.  Analog years, teleconnection models, the pacific jet forecast, the Atlantic ocean temperatures, the temps in Canada- all of them just don't give me any confidence anymore. 
Best hope is for 10-12 days of ok weather starting middle of this week and then some light natural snow till the 1st. After that welcome back mild air frustration till feb. 
(best news however could be that this is a year where spring really doesn't arrive until late april)


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## loafer89 (Dec 17, 2006)

The latest NOAA forecast is for a brief period of cold weather next week, followed by rain on friday-saturday and more mild temperatures.

If this weather pattern does not change soon it will start hurting the ski areas really hard.


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## KingM (Dec 17, 2006)

It already is hurting. Speaking as an innkeeper near MRG and Sugarbush, our reservations are way down for Christmas. Almost everyone who had a reservation this last weekend cancelled, and next weekend is looking dead. It can all turn around in a hurry with one big storm and a bit of cold weather, but nothing like that is on the horizon.

Come to think of it, it seems like the last time we had a serious dumping up here was February, 2005. That's a looooong time.


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## SnowRider (Dec 17, 2006)

> I've been pretty certain, and have said so many times, that around the 20-22nd of this month we would see winter return and NE would get some real snow between then and the 27th. Furthermore I was pretty confident that this would mark a long term return to NORMAL temps.
> Well up to this am that is. The pattern is the pattern and it's not changing. Warm will be the rule and normal will be cold and it will be short lived. Sorry. Feb. is the only winter month I actually believe in right now. Analog years, teleconnection models, the pacific jet forecast, the Atlantic ocean temperatures, the temps in Canada- all of them just don't give me any confidence anymore.
> Best hope is for 10-12 days of ok weather starting middle of this week and then some light natural snow till the 1st. After that welcome back mild air frustration till feb.
> (best news however could be that this is a year where spring really doesn't arrive until late april)



Are you saying that we wont get any good skiing or good dumps or even snomaking temps untill february?! What has winter become...


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## goldsbar (Dec 18, 2006)

KingM said:


> It already is hurting. Speaking as an innkeeper near MRG and Sugarbush, our reservations are way down for Christmas. Almost everyone who had a reservation this last weekend cancelled, and next weekend is looking dead. It can all turn around in a hurry with one big storm and a bit of cold weather, but nothing like that is on the horizon.
> 
> Come to think of it, it seems like the last time we had a serious dumping up here was February, 2005. That's a looooong time.



Sorry to tell you this, but I was going to make reservations in the area on MLK weekend but there's no way I'm doing that now.  I'd need to see at least two 1' dumps with consistant cold weather and without rain in between before I make that drive from NJ.  Not too happy about it as I had Grandma all lined up for babysitting.


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## Greg (Dec 18, 2006)

goldsbar said:


> Sorry to tell you this, but I was going to make reservations in the area on MLK weekend but there's no way I'm doing that now.  I'd need to see at least two 1' dumps with consistant cold weather and without rain in between before I make that drive from NJ.  Not too happy about it as I had Grandma all lined up for babysitting.



MLK weekend is a pretty long ways off...


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## ctenidae (Dec 18, 2006)

Greg said:


> MLK weekend is a pretty long ways off...



Ever the optimist. I hope you're right (I know, MLK weekend is a long ways off- you're ceretainly right there. I hope your optimism is right!)


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## ajl50 (Dec 18, 2006)

SnowRider said:


> Are you saying that we wont get any good skiing or good dumps or even snomaking temps untill february?! What has winter become...



Of course there is a chance for snow storms before then. This is winter and there is air cold enought for snow that can line up with one of these storms and give us all some snow. What my point really is - don't expect patterns of sustained cold and snow showers (you know the patterns where the 'dacks, greens and whites get a eight inch storm and then 12 inches of light snow for the next week and then the whole thing is repeated)  for at least the next 5 weeks. 
Warm and above average with little precip of any kind will be the norm.


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## shwilly (Dec 18, 2006)

Time will tell what the weather brings, but December has already been better than a wash for me personally. I've had 3 surprisingly good days sliding on manmade stuff. I've gotten the start-of-season jitters out and enjoyed hanging out with friends on the mountain and afterward. This past weekend my wife and I took our first ski road trip of the season, and we had a great time.

I have my fingers crossed for better weather, but we're already well past the "more fun than anything else I could be doing this weekend" threshold. Hopefully it will just get better from here.


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 18, 2006)

Greg said:


> MLK weekend is a pretty long ways off...


3.5 weeks away is not that long off , remember we said that around Thanksgiving in regards to Xmas. Maybe it will be like 3 years ago, in Maine, when we had no snow until Xmas day and then it puked for 2 days.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 18, 2006)

Interesting coorelation I just made.

Sunspot cycles reach solar minimum every 11 years. 11 years ago = 1994-1995 = Horrible snow year







This year is another solar minimum
2006 - 2007


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 18, 2006)

Holy crap :blink: :blink: :blink: 
I just checked out 1982-1983 on http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=mansel.php3 and that year almost EXACTLY mirrors 1994-1995.
THIS IS NOT PROMISING for the rest of the winter :x


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 18, 2006)

Comparison of all three years. I should have probably put this in the "Winter has been cancelled" thread. 
Time to break out the mountain bike


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## riverc0il (Dec 18, 2006)

ski_resort_observer said:


> 3.5 weeks away is not that long off , remember we said that around Thanksgiving in regards to Xmas. Maybe it will be like 3 years ago, in Maine, when we had no snow until Xmas day and then it puked for 2 days.


indeed, not far off at all. and while week to week forecasts are hit or miss, i do trust general weather patterns when they are widely agreed upon, and every forecaster is definitely calling for above average temps with no likely major dumps any time soon. i think it is smart to avoid booking holiday weekend trips at this point until you get closer to your date. better yet, book a trip out west instead. check out the latest reports from alta over at FTO. if i had the money, i would be heading out there this weekend.


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## riverc0il (Dec 18, 2006)

from_the_NEK said:


> Comparison of all three years. I should have probably put this in the "Winter has been cancelled" thread.
> Time to break out the mountain bike


at least april looked good one of those historical years on the graph you posted  that thing that concerns me the most is catching up to average base depth. imo, base depth is one of the single most important drivers for good snow years. i would rather have natural snow trails open consistently throughout the year with a few decent pow days rather than a lot of great pow days with lots of rain, thaw, and closure of said natural snow trails due to poor base depth. while it was great skiing in the trees in october twice and then once more again in early november... i would easily trade those three great days for tree skiing from jan through april every day. without a base, we still have yet to establish even a base layer for the building phase of the season. i don't expect good tree skiing until february at this point. :blink:


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## mattchuck2 (Dec 18, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> at least april looked good one of those historical years on the graph you posted  that thing that concerns me the most is catching up to average base depth. imo, base depth is one of the single most important drivers for good snow years. i would rather have natural snow trails open consistently throughout the year with a few decent pow days rather than a lot of great pow days with lots of rain, thaw, and closure of said natural snow trails due to poor base depth. while it was great skiing in the trees in october twice and then once more again in early november... i would easily trade those three great days for tree skiing from jan through april every day. without a base, we still have yet to establish even a base layer for the building phase of the season. i don't expect good tree skiing until february at this point. :blink:



I completely agree with everything you just said.


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## WWF-VT (Dec 18, 2006)

Weather not cooperating for December.  Being an optimist we have to hope that the pattern changes and we have a strong Jan, Feb , March and April.  My only consolation is my dislocated shoulder should be rehabilitated and l'll get the green light to ski in early January


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## SnowRider (Dec 18, 2006)

> at least april looked good one of those historical years on the graph you posted  that thing that concerns me the most is catching up to average base depth. imo, base depth is one of the single most important drivers for good snow years. i would rather have natural snow trails open consistently throughout the year with a few decent pow days rather than a lot of great pow days with lots of rain, thaw, and closure of said natural snow trails due to poor base depth. while it was great skiing in the trees in october twice and then once more again in early november... i would easily trade those three great days for tree skiing from jan through april every day. without a base, we still have yet to establish even a base layer for the building phase of the season. i don't expect good tree skiing until february at this point.



I am in MA and go up to Sunapee. I am lucky to get 2 good weekends tree skiing there. Last year I got no tree skiing cept for Jay. I agree with you 100% but forcast for the long term still dont look promising. Hopefully January stays cold enough for snowmaking so mountans can build bases. Maybe set up a good february.


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## Skibum_dan (Dec 19, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> at least april looked good one of those historical years on the graph you posted  that thing that concerns me the most is catching up to average base depth. imo, base depth is one of the single most important drivers for good snow years. i would rather have natural snow trails open consistently throughout the year with a few decent pow days rather than a lot of great pow days with lots of rain, thaw, and closure of said natural snow trails due to poor base depth. while it was great skiing in the trees in october twice and then once more again in early november... i would easily trade those three great days for tree skiing from jan through april every day. without a base, we still have yet to establish even a base layer for the building phase of the season. i don't expect good tree skiing until february at this point. :blink:



So sad but true.  
Unless we get some insane dumps between now and then that actually stick around.

I was up at smuggs on saturday and sunday....spring skiing in december. kinda fun but a lot melted in one week.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 19, 2006)

The Burke Video from Today is not pretty.  http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/january1680/?action=view&current=PC191767.flv


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 19, 2006)

thetrailboss said:


> The Burke Video from Today is not pretty.  http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/january1680/?action=view&current=PC191767.flv



It is better than Saturday. At least there are some snowflakes in the air and Upper Warren's Way isn't COMPLETELY bare. There is hope :roll:


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## andyzee (Dec 19, 2006)

Life gives you lemons, make lemonaid. 4 days so far this month, another 6-7 coming up and going to enjoy each and every one of them.


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