# ボストンのMatsuzaka 氏へようこそ。 (Welcome to Boston, Mr. Matsuzaka)



## ChileMass (Nov 13, 2006)

*ボストンのMatsuzaka 氏へようこそ。 (Welcome to Boston, Mr. Matsuzaka)*

Sox bid of $42M may land them the big free-agent prize.  My fingers are crossed, but I also thought we had Contreras and A-Rod a few years ago, too..........

You Yankee fans do realize he has stated he wants to play for the Yanks, and that he and his team can turn down any offer from the high bidder............


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## thetrailboss (Nov 13, 2006)

I was just wondering why I had not heard anything about the 'Sox as of late....


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## Paul (Nov 14, 2006)

Domo Arrigato Mr. MatsuzakO.....Domo....Domo.....


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## JimG. (Nov 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> You Yankee fans do realize he has stated he wants to play for the Yanks, and that he and his team can turn down any offer from the high bidder............



No problem...I have no doubt the Yanks will blow that $42 million offer away even though the guy wants to play in NY anyway. They'll overpay as they always do.

I hope this guy isn't another Hideki Irabu, another "can't miss" Japanese pitcher.


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## ChileMass (Nov 14, 2006)

JimG. said:


> No problem...I have no doubt the Yanks will blow that $42 million offer away even though the guy wants to play in NY anyway. They'll overpay as they always do.
> 
> I hope this guy isn't another Hideki Irabu, another "can't miss" Japanese pitcher.



No - it's too late for the Yanks.  Apparently the Yanks sent in their bid and it was less than the Sox bid.  So if the Seibu Lions (Matsuzaka's current team) decide to accept the Sox bid, they have 30 days to work out a deal or he stays in Japan.  

For the Sox sake, I hope he's not Hideki Irabu, too.......


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## JimG. (Nov 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> No - it's too late for the Yanks.  Apparently the Yanks sent in their bid and it was less than the Sox bid.  So if the Seibu Lions (Matsuzaka's current team) decide to accept the Sox bid, they have 30 days to work out a deal or he stays in Japan.
> 
> For the Sox sake, I hope he's not Hideki Irabu, too.......



I am strangely heartened by this news...perhaps the Yanks will benefit despite themselves.


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## BeanoNYC (Nov 14, 2006)

```

```



			
				ChileMass said:
			
		

> For the Sox sake



The Sox make rice wine?


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## ChileMass (Nov 14, 2006)

BeanoNYC said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> The Sox make rice wine?



Hah - you a funny boy.......

Turns out the Sox bid was actually over $51 million - !!!!! - just to win the rights to try to make a deal with him.  And the guy is represented by Scott Boras, the toughest agent in baseball.  The good news is that the Sox effectively blocked the Yanks, and if they can't get a deal done with Matsuzaka/Boras they get their bid money back.  Word is it will take something like $12M per year for 5 years to get a deal done, so that makes the whole thing worth over $110 million.  Yikes.  Remember that when bleacher seats are going for $100 apiece........


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## roark (Nov 14, 2006)

^^^^
Just part of why I will always cheer when the Sox and Yanks lose... :roll:


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## ChileMass (Nov 15, 2006)

roark said:


> ^^^^
> Just part of why I will always cheer when the Sox and Yanks lose... :roll:



Roark - that's not gonna be a very popular attitude up there in NH. You are way behind enemy lines, so better keep it to yourself.  Remember that "Live Free or Die" and "Let's Go Red Sox" are equal local mottos.


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## JimG. (Nov 15, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> Roark - that's not gonna be a very popular attitude up there in NH. You are way behind enemy lines, so better keep it to yourself.  Remember that "Live Free or Die" and "Let's Go Red Sox" are equal local mottos.



Never told this story here:

I was at Dartmouth for my summer semester in 1978 when the Sox were 14 games up in early August. All my frat brothers knew I was from NY and a Yankee fan. They tortured me relentlessly, going so far as to announce in the dining hall that I was a Yanks fan so the whole school could ridicule me at dinner time. I learned to eat with drunken "Red Thawx" fans jawing at me and trying to intimidate me. All of the New Yorkers on campus learned to stay together in packs as a form of defense.

Then the Yankees came back; there was the 4 game "Boston Massacre" that pulled them even. And then of course Bucky Dent. In a flash every Red Sox cap disappeared from campus. And I enjoyed my revenge, part of which involved all of the NY Yankee fans serenading Red Sox fans from the middle of the quad at 3am in the morning, with microphones and amplifiers to make sure everyone heard.

Bucky Dent was my sports hero for years after that.


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## roark (Nov 15, 2006)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-matsuzaka111406&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



> If Boston does work out a contract with Matsuzaka over the next 30 days – Boras will push for three years to get Matsuzaka back on the free-agent market before he turns 30, and the Red Sox will pull for four or five years to get the full value of the posting fee they pay the Seibu Lions – he becomes the new Alex Rodriguez, around a $25 million-a-year man.
> Only he'll play in one-fifth the games.
> 
> ...
> ...


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## JimG. (Nov 15, 2006)

roark said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-matsuzaka111406&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



How totally ironic!

The Sox will be the catalyst for salaries escalating out of control, not the Yanks.

Hey, we can call you guys the Boston Steinbrenners from now on.


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## jack97 (Nov 15, 2006)

JimG. said:


> How totally ironic!
> 
> The Sox will be the catalyst for salaries escalating out of control, not the Yanks.
> 
> Hey, we can call you guys the Boston Steinbrenners from now on.




This is the reason why I won't watch MLB baseball. Way out of control. 

If I have time, I don't mind watching a couple of innings of little league or what ever is on the neighborhood field.


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## smitty77 (Nov 15, 2006)

IMHO, that money (and the money to fund the resulting contract) could have been much better spent on a few, good free agent pitchers or up and coming prospects.  You don't build depth by pinning your hopes on one guy.  And he's not even proven to boot.  All I can think of is BK Kim all over again.


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## 2knees (Nov 15, 2006)

JimG. said:


> How totally ironic!
> 
> The Sox will be the catalyst for salaries escalating out of control, not the Yanks.
> 
> Hey, we can call you guys the Boston Steinbrenners from now on.




actually, it isnt the red sox or the yankees.  I was half listening to some talking head on espn who works for Scouts Inc.  he was saying that the amount of money available to each team through revenue sharing and what have you was going to drive the price up on all free agents.  The guy was saying the Jeff Suppan may end up making like 10 million a year next year.  The whole salary structure was going to go waaaayyyy up.


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## Paul (Nov 15, 2006)

smitty77 said:


> IMHO, that money (and the money to fund the resulting contract) could have been much better spent on a few, good free agent pitchers or up and coming prospects.  You don't build depth by pinning your hopes on one guy.  And he's not even proven to boot.  All I can think of is BK Kim all over again.



No offense Smitty, but you sound like the callers on the Big Show.. 

I'm not saying I'm 100% behind Andrew Diceclay Matsuzaka (cool Berman impression, no?) however, the only 2 FA hurlers that will be available are Zito and Schmidt. Schmidt at best might be another Beckett, transitioning to the AL, and Zito, although a proven commodity, hasn't exactly struck fear into opposing offenses. He's good, but he's no Clemens. Plus, he's a bit older than Domo Arigato Mr. Matsuzako...

And next year Shill takes a hike.

Could you imagine this line-up?
Zito / Schmidt
Beckett
Papelbon
uh...Wake? 
uh...

ugh...



no...

Cl..

C..
Cla...


Clem..eh....uhhhhh...

That friggin' jug-eared hick


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## ChileMass (Nov 15, 2006)

Bleacher seats at Fenway, 550 feet from home plate going for $150 each - you heard it here first.  

Jimmie G - here's my 1978 story:  

By the time I went back to Albany State in late August for my sophomore year, Fisk and Lynn were on the DL, Zimmer had blown the Sox summertime lead down to just a few games, and the Yankee fans in my dorm were hysterical for Red Sox blood.  When the 4-game Massacre happened over Labor Day, it was relentless.  While you were getting crap up in Hanover in August, I took a solid month of abuse in September from everyone in my dorm (about 300 guys).  Albany State was (and still is, I believe) about 85% residents of the 5 boroughs of NYC, plus Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester and Rockland counties.  Then there was me - the Red Sox fan from Maine and Glens Falls.  I might as well have been from Neptune.  Even after the Sox won their last 8 straight to tie the Yanks in game 162, there were exactly 2 other Sox fans sitting in my room with me watching the playoff game on a TV I had rented from the electronics store around the corner.  I couldn't afford the $35/day rental fee, but I also couldn't miss the game and there was no way in hell I could survive watching the game in the only dorm TV lounge with all the Yankee fans.  No way.  But, when the Sox won the coin flip and the game was scheduled to be played at Fenway, I made five $20 bets (that I also couldn't afford) with the five biggest Yankee fans in my dorm, just to shut them up and to prove that the Sox had someone on their side.  But deep down, I was trembling.  

OK, so we all know the Sox won the World Series in 2004, but the 1978 playoff game was much more intense.  *Much* more intense.  Hard to imagine 28 years later, but it's 100% true.  The 4th game of the 2004 World Series was a formality - the Cards rolled over and we won.  The 6th and 7th games of the 2004 ALCS were more like the '78 playoff game.  That game was totally do or die, and baby, back in those days it was truly do or die - possibly more than now - ??  The Yanks and Sox hated each other and those players probably still do.  I HATED Reggie Jackson and Mickey Rivers and Graig Nettles and Munson and Chambliss and Pinella and Gossage and Guidry and Billy Fucking Martin and George Steinbrenner more than you will ever know.  

Sox fans wanted to win so incredibly badly that the game at Fenway was pretty much played in silence punctuated with screaming fits of ecstasy and rage.  Sox fans were so uptight it wasn't even fun.  We HAD to win.  When Yaz hit the solo homer in the 2nd inning, we went nuts, but we had to keep cool since a very-average Mike Torrez was pitching against Ron Guidry who was all-world that year.  The Sox were nursing a 2-0 lead when Bucky F. Dent popped the fly over the Monstah and Yaz slumped like a rag doll at the base of the wall when the ball didn't come down.  The Yankee fans in the TV lounge down the hall banged on my door and almost broke it down (it was locked, thanks).  Even when Reggie homered to put the Yanks up 5-2 in the top of the 8th, I still thought the Sox could come back.  The 1978 Sox team was that good.  But as usual, it was obvious that God is a freakin' Yankee fan and somehow allowed Pinella to catch Lynn's liner in the 8th and blindly snag Remy's potential game-winning double (shoulda been a triple) in the 9th, or else the Sox win.  But - as always - the Yanks won when Yaz popped to Nettles with runners on 2nd and 3rd.  I thought the world had ended.  

In 2003 when Grady left Pedro in too long and the Yanks won on Boone's homer in the 11th, I threw my Sox hat into the garage and left it there for a few days.  But when the Sox lost the playoff game to the Yanks in 1978, I was inconsolable.  It was as if my family had gone down in a plane crash.  This was the first time in my lifetime the Sox legitimately had a chance to win the Series, de-throne and humble the Yanks and perhaps start a dynasty.  Go look up the roster for that team and check out how many Hall of Famers and Near Hall of Famers were on that team - and they never won a goddamned thing.  Every year was the same thing.  And when 1999, 2003 and the first 3 games of the 2004 ALCS happened, I was bummed but my heart was steeled from 1978.   Even when the Sox lost to the Mets in 1986, I had the scar tissue from 1978 to protect me (but that was #2).  

All right - I will give Yankee fans at least this much credit - in 2003 when Grady's brain fart blew the game, the next day all of my Yankee fan friends called or emailed to make sure I hadn't driven off a bridge.  And in 1978 the 5 guys I made the bets with took me out and got me loaded on my own money.  After about 10 Scotches I finally was cooled out enough to try to sleep, and I think it took me a week to get my head back on straight.  As you can tell, even 28 years later and even after the Sox won the Series, 1978 still left a scar.  And I know 2004 did the same for the Yankee fans..........


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## smitty77 (Nov 16, 2006)

Paul said:


> No offense Smitty, but you sound like the callers on the Big Show..
> 
> I'm not saying I'm 100% behind Andrew Diceclay Matsuzaka (cool Berman impression, no?) however, the only 2 FA hurlers that will be available are Zito and Schmidt. Schmidt at best might be another Beckett, transitioning to the AL, and Zito, although a proven commodity, hasn't exactly struck fear into opposing offenses. He's good, but he's no Clemens. Plus, he's a bit older than Domo Arigato Mr. Matsuzako...


I know as much about baseball as I do figure skating.  But....
I will say I have been rather disappointed at the pitching in general in the majors over the last 6-7 years.  Are the hitters really getting that good, or are teams not developing talent the way they used to, blowing kids up at 22, 23 years old instead of grooming them like Pappelbon?  Beckett was supposed to be "the answer" with Lowell as "added baggage" and it turned out the opposite.  Beckett sucked last year for what he was being paid.  I just think it's an aweful lot of dough for a guy that has never thrown on this side of the world.  Are we more likely to lose guys like Pappelbon when he's due for contract negotiation because we won't may him Matsuzaka money?  It just sets a bad precedent.  Let someone else front the big bucks and we'll pick him up on free agency in 3 years when he's just an average pitcher.


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## roark (Nov 16, 2006)

Nice stories Jim & Chile, cool to read. :beer:


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## JimG. (Nov 16, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> Bleacher seats at Fenway, 550 feet from home plate going for $150 each - you heard it here first.
> 
> Jimmie G - here's my 1978 story:
> 
> ...



It sometimes amazes me that humanity survives...people do alot of really crappy things to other people.

Today, I always remind myself that it's just baseball.


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## Paul (Nov 16, 2006)

smitty77 said:


> I know as much about baseball as I do figure skating.  But....
> I will say I have been rather disappointed at the pitching in general in the majors over the last 6-7 years.  Are the hitters really getting that good, or are teams not developing talent the way they used to, blowing kids up at 22, 23 years old instead of grooming them like Pappelbon?  Beckett was supposed to be "the answer" with Lowell as "added baggage" and it turned out the opposite.  Beckett sucked last year for what he was being paid.  I just think it's an aweful lot of dough for a guy that has never thrown on this side of the world.  Are we more likely to lose guys like Pappelbon when he's due for contract negotiation because we won't may him Matsuzaka money?  It just sets a bad precedent.  Let someone else front the big bucks and we'll pick him up on free agency in 3 years when he's just an average pitcher.



Very good points, all.

I'm not crazy about the precedent either, however, if it wasn't the Sox doing it, it would be the Yank-me's, so I think the precedent will be set one way or the other. I'm not sold on the guy, he has about 8 different pitches, so I can't believe that any 1 or 2 are really good, however, having a large amount to choose from may be his "ace in the hole" I have also heard that he has thrown over 200 in a game, more than once. Good chance he could burn out and succumb to dead-arm early. Of course the Sox needed to do something, and of the three, I would say that Zito would be the safe bet, but I do kinda like the Sox aggressiveness here. They're swinging for the HR, instead of the base-hit. Tough call. And they still need a closer, among other things....


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 16, 2006)

JimG. said:


> How totally ironic!
> 
> The Sox will be the catalyst for salaries escalating out of control, not the Yanks.
> 
> Hey, we can call you guys the Boston Steinbrenners from now on.



 Jim i have to agree with you now, i can no longer bitch about the yankees payroll, if you are a fan of the Mets, yanks or sox your living in the penthouse now, we are on even lines, no more excuses or torturing the yankee fans about payroll, its out of control something really needs to be done.


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## roark (Nov 17, 2006)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> its out of control something really needs to be done.


Don't give them your money.


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## ChileMass (Nov 17, 2006)

roark said:


> Don't give them your money.




I'm a total diehard Sox and MLB fan, but there's no way I'm paying $105 face value for a field box at Fenway.  And the scalpers and ticket agents will want double or triple that amount, so there's just no way.  I went to Fenway in September for the 1st time in 3 years, and could only afford to buy a ticket after the Sox were completely out of the pennant race.  I will follow them on radio, TV, the newspapers, etc., and win or lose I will follow them, but I refuse to pay that kind of money for a 3-hour baseball game.


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## skiNEwhere (Nov 17, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> I'm a total diehard Sox and MLB fan, but there's no way I'm paying $105 face value for a field box at Fenway.  And the scalpers and ticket agents will want double or triple that amount, so there's just no way.  I went to Fenway in September for the 1st time in 3 years, and could only afford to buy a ticket after the Sox were completely out of the pennant race.  I will follow them on radio, TV, the newspapers, etc., and win or lose I will follow them, but I refuse to pay that kind of money for a 3-hour baseball game.



If I am not mistaking, don't the red sox have the highest ticket prices in MLB? But look at it from John Henry's point of view. He can just keep rising the ticket prices (and food prices), and he will still sell out EVERY game. I hate to say this, being a die-hard sox fan, but the only way ticket prices are going to go down is if the sox go on a cold streak and have a few bad seasons, and stop sellng out. I looked up the price of a ticket for Kauffman stadium right behind home plate(home of the royals), only 27 dollars.......


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## ChileMass (Dec 13, 2006)

Bump

Pretty funny the way every TV station had live coverage going when Matsuzaka and agent Scott Boras flew into Boston tonight.  You'd have thought the Pope had landed.  There were about 50 Sox fans, about 25 Boston media reporters, and about 50 Japanese reporters!  

Apparently the deal is $52M over 6 years, which is a nice long time to have him under cotnract.  That is, as long as his shoulder holds up.  Man, if tickets were tough to get before today, they will be impossible form here on out.  

Sox 2007 starting rotation:  Matsuzaka, Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon and Lester
Yanks 2007 starting rotation:  Petitte, Mussina, Wang, Johnson and #5 to be named later (??).  

Now just win, baby........:beer:


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Dec 13, 2006)

U know whats funny though, Boras didnt even come close to what he wanted, people are basically calling it a steal, and if hes anywhere as good as Wang for the Yanks has been it will be.. I feel bad for the teams going after Zito another Boras client, he will not give in like he did this time.. All we need is a closer now.


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## ChileMass (Dec 14, 2006)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> U know whats funny though, Boras didnt even come close to what he wanted, people are basically calling it a steal, and if hes anywhere as good as Wang for the Yanks has been it will be.. I feel bad for the teams going after Zito another Boras client, he will not give in like he did this time.. All we need is a closer now.



Here's what they have been saying on Boston radio: Matsuzaka got much less than Zito will because he's not a free agent. The process of Japanese teams allowing their players to be "posted" is apparently seen as the only thing that keeps the US teams from freely raiding their best talent all the time.  Players have to petition to be posted, and then their team still holds all the power.  They compared the money Matsuzaka got to that of a very highly-sought amateur rather than what a free agent gets.  So in that expect, the Sox management for once may have gotten the better of the negotiation and didn't have to give in to Boras' demand that Matsuzaka be treated (and paid) like a free agent.  For once, we may have actually done well and not overpaid!  

Press conference at Fenway at 5PM today for the introduction - sweet.  

Now about that arm......let's hope he holds up for 6 years.......


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## rob56789 (Dec 14, 2006)

Who cares about all these guys lets get clemens back on the yanks


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## ChileMass (Dec 14, 2006)

rob56789 said:


> Who cares about all these guys lets get clemens back on the yanks




But Clemens wants to play for a winner - he better come back to Boston or re-sign with Houston.  The Yanks are destined for 3rd place in '07.........


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

$102 million for a Japanese pitcher who has never thrown a major league pitch? Much good luck with that...looking forward to his first bombing in Yankee Stadium.

At least the Yanks had enough sense to bring back Pettite at $16 million...cheap compared to what the Sox did. And he's a proven winner in the regular season and the playoffs.

At least I'll never ever again have to take it seriously when a Bosox fan whines about the Yankees payroll.


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> But Clemens wants to play for a winner - he better come back to Boston or re-sign with Houston.  The Yanks are destined for 3rd place in '07.........



Too funny!

I like an optimist.


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## Mike P. (Dec 14, 2006)

IF YOU CAN BELIEVE the Boston Press (REAL big IF)  Clemens is more likely to be in Boston than NY.  If they really believe that it gives you option of not over paying for a closer & if it does not work out put Papelbon back in there & have Clemens start.

I agree that Pettite & Mussina are better options than Zito who gets hit hard usaully by NYY & Boston (not with first look but by 5-7th, everyone has seen the 12 to 6 curve) With Sheffield & Ordonez in Detroit, they will have some luck too.  Pettite has been pitching against those weaker hitters in the NL the last couple of years, he has to prove he can still pitch in the A league.


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> Pettite has been pitching against those weaker hitters in the NL the last couple of years, he has to prove he can still pitch in the A league.



Mike, Pettite spent the first 10 years of his career in the AL...but you know that.

He has nothing to prove...as I said before, a proven winner in either league.

BTW, Clemens has spent the same amount of time in the NL as Pettite; do you think he has something to prove in the AL too?

There's only one pitcher in this recent conversation who has to prove himself...Matsuzaka.


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Dec 14, 2006)

Well i have to take Jim's side on this, the only thing going against Clemens or Andy is age, other than that they have proven themselves in big spots, and i said awhile ago i can no longer bitch about the yankees payroll.  Jim if he goes say 15-10 id call that a pretty good first season, and id be happy with it..


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## 2knees (Dec 14, 2006)

JimG. said:


> Mike, Pettite spent the first 10 years of his career in the AL...but you know that.
> 
> He has nothing to prove...as I said before, a proven winner in either league.
> 
> ...




16 million for a pitcher (pettitte) who got lit up like a christmas tree last year in the N.L.  Yes he has a good pedigree but in this "what have you done for me lately" age, Pettitte has to prove last year was a fluke, not the beginning of the end.  Not to mention his expanding resume of elbow problems.


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## 2knees (Dec 14, 2006)

as far as Dice K or whatever they call him, i hope to god it pans out.  This sort of reeks of desperation to me, but i guess they had to do something.  52 million to the pitcher and 51 mil to the club.  lotta money for a guy who could be the next Hideki Irabu.  remember that "cant miss"?


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## ChileMass (Dec 14, 2006)

JimG. said:


> $102 million for a Japanese pitcher who has never thrown a major league pitch? Much good luck with that...looking forward to his first bombing in Yankee Stadium.
> 
> At least the Yanks had enough sense to bring back Pettite at $16 million...cheap compared to what the Sox did. And he's a proven winner in the regular season and the playoffs.
> 
> At least I'll never ever again have to take it seriously when a Bosox fan whines about the Yankees payroll.



The new Sox management has to spend like this just to try to win the AL East.  If they ever want to get past the Yanks, it's an economic necessity.   Yup - the Sox can no longer claim the Yanks are the bad guys for spending money, but you Yankee fans have to admit it sucks to have someone else working what has been your private turf for decades.  

As FritoLayGuy pointed out, Pettitte's 3+ years older than the last time he pitched in the AL, and he only won 14 games in the miserable NL last year.  Mussina is another year older, Randy Johnson may not make it to the All-Star break, much less thru the season, and Pavano is still hurt.  I heard the Yanks may go after Joel Piniero, who at least is under 30, but he's a #4 at best.  He was 8-13 for Seattle last year with an ERA of 6.26.  As you said - I wish you much good luck with that crew.  Meanwhile, the Sox rotation keeps getting younger:  Dice-K (26), Beckett (26), Papelbon (24) and Lester (22) plus Schilling at 40.


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> you Yankee fans have to admit it sucks to have someone else working what has been your private turf for decades.



OK with me...maybe the Sox will get stuck with some of the high priced losers I've seen over the years instead of the Yankees.  



Chilemass said:


> As you said - I wish you much good luck with that crew.  Meanwhile, the Sox rotation keeps getting younger:  Dice-K (26), Beckett (26), Papelbon (24) and Lester (22) plus Schilling at 40.



Ah to wear rose colored glasses! You vilify the Yanks rotation as being old, yet your list has 1 proven starter on it...Schilling at 40 years young. How did he do last season?


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## Paul (Dec 14, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> if it does not work out put Papelbon back in there & have Clemens start.



Papelbon can't close games anymore. Doctor's orders.

I think Theo's going for a 7-man rotation, and no bullpen...


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## ChileMass (Dec 14, 2006)

JimG. said:


> Ah to wear rose colored glasses! You vilify the Yanks rotation as being old, yet your list has 1 proven starter on it...Schilling at 40 years young. How did he do last season?



Be honest - which starting rotation would you rather have?  All of the Yankee pitchers best days are waaaaay in the past.  The Sox rotation has huge future upside.  At some point you have to commit to the future.  Good luck.


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> Be honest - which starting rotation would you rather have?  All of the Yankee pitchers best days are waaaaay in the past.  The Sox rotation has huge future upside.  At some point you have to commit to the future.  Good luck.



You mean huge POTENTIAL future upside. BTW, you forgot to add Wakefield to your rotation...he's about 40 also and still one of the Sox better pitchers.

For today, I don't even have to think about it twice.

Yanks all the way! 

But you knew that, didn't you?


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## ChileMass (Dec 14, 2006)

JimG. said:


> You mean huge POTENTIAL future upside. BTW, you forgot to add Wakefield to your rotation...he's about 40 also and still one of the Sox better pitchers.
> 
> For today, I don't even have to think about it twice.
> 
> ...




Lester will be in the rotation and Wakefield will be in the bullpen.  

Potential and upside are the same thing.  In 1996, the Yanks went for the "potential future upside" with a bunch of young players and dumped a bunch of aging veterans who weren't getting the job done.  How did that work out for the Yanks, Jim?


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> Lester will be in the rotation and Wakefield will be in the bullpen.
> 
> Potential and upside are the same thing.  In 1996, the Yanks went for the "potential future upside" with a bunch of young players and dumped a bunch of aging veterans who weren't getting the job done.  How did that work out for the Yanks, Jim?



Whoa horsey, calm down.

No doubt the Yanks caught lightening in a bottle in 1996.

That doesn't mean the Sox automatically have nothing but superstars on their hands today.

Let's play the games this summer and see what happens.


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## ChileMass (Dec 14, 2006)

JimG. said:


> Whoa horsey, calm down.
> 
> No doubt the Yanks caught lightening in a bottle in 1996.
> 
> ...



Hey - don't get me wrong - I am not saying any of the above in a hostile way.  Showalter, Cashman and - <<gulp >> - George did a fantastic job in 1996 identifying a bunch of young talent that carried the Yanks for years.  My point is that the Sox management seems to have done a similarly terrific job of assembling the parts of a potentially great young team.  A lot of young teams have recently gone a long, long way in October (Tigers, Marlins, etc.)  And I agree - we need to play the games out and see if the Yanks experience overcomes the Sox youth in 2007.  

But I'll still take our mostly unproven, young, upside-rich starting staff..........


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## JimG. (Dec 14, 2006)

ChileMass said:


> Showalter, Cashman and - <<gulp >> - George did a fantastic job in 1996 identifying a bunch of young talent that carried the Yanks for years.



Actually, Bob Watson was the architect of the 1996 team that won the first World Series for them since 1978. He was unceremoniously run out of town at the end of that season by King George. Cashman took over from that point.


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## montvm (Dec 14, 2006)

rob56789 said:


> Who cares about all these guys lets get clemens back on the yanks




First lets get a closer, then we can worry about bringing back Clemens!:beer:


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## Mike P. (Dec 15, 2006)

I remember Pettite in NY, what I don't remember is how he pitched, I mean was he a thrower like Clemens or more of a finese guy like Mussina, or in between.   If in between, is the offspeed stuff as effective if the fastball is a little slower.  (The opposite of Beckett last year, a Change up at 91 MPH isn't going to fool people who can't catch up with a 95 MPH fastball, it's just a slower fastball they can - & did - hit)

NY will still spend 40- 50M more.  True, we can't complain though.

Detroit may have enough this year if Sheffield can hit still & I think he can.  Pitchers are still young except for Rogers & back end of the pen is full.

Sox have options, Wake can do bullpen duty (for knuckleballers he's still young at 40, no strain on arm like guys who throw heat. Latest rumor is the closer from Pittsburgh which they would have to trade for.  One thought is Youkolis & then sign A. Huff to play first, he is a free agent with more power than Youk, with Free Agency in a couple of years you can sign Youk up again if he continues to develop.  Not likely a 40 HR & 120 RBI guy anyway so even in the free agent market unlikey he would get more than 10-12 M if he continues to improve. (today's $)


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## rob56789 (Dec 15, 2006)

montvm said:


> First lets get a closer, then we can worry about bringing back Clemens!:beer:



Closer? last i knew we still had the best closer to ever play the game


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Dec 15, 2006)

Hmmmm on the front page of the sports section in todays Waterbury Republican it reads.
      WHO'S THE EVIL EMPIRE NOW?


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## montvm (Dec 19, 2006)

rob56789 said:


> Closer? last i knew we still had the best closer to ever play the game



Sorry Rob just realize that you were trying to get Roger back to the Yanks, (Still the evil empire).  I thought that you were talking about the sox's supposed offer to Clemens.    Yes you guys still have the best closer in the game, uke: , now that papelbon won't be closing.  :-o .....  Don't count having Roger with the Yanks just because Andy P.  is signed.  I think ending his carreer where he started would be more important to him, and important to the Red Sox owners, (not Theo though).


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