# East coast pass options suck.



## pauldotcom (Mar 5, 2019)

Ikon pass - unlimited days at 12 resorts - out west. East coast folks get 15 days total in VT. LAME
Epic pass - unlimited at Okemo & Sunapee... Kinda LAME
Mount Snow pass - unlimited at Snow and a few others with ZERO west options.. Sorta LAME.

Not many great options for southern VT skiers...


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

if you cannot string together an excellent eastern season with ikon base + the other more novel products we all discuss here all the time, then you don't deserve a 50 day season.


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## bushpilot (Mar 5, 2019)

Is Stowe not unlimited on the Epic pass?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 5, 2019)

I still dont know how Peaks gets a away with such a cheap product. Simply cant say no to the explorer option


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## boston_e (Mar 5, 2019)

There is always a full season pass available at whichever is your favorite Vermont mountain.


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## cdskier (Mar 5, 2019)

bushpilot said:


> Is Stowe not unlimited on the Epic pass?



They are. Not sure why the OP left them out unless he decided they were just too far north. He also left out 3 other New England options on the Ikon base pass that would bring the total to 30 eastern days.



boston_e said:


> There is always a full season pass available at whichever is your favorite Vermont mountain.



Exactly. Expecting a multi-mountain pass that covers all the mountains you happen to like (and which happen to have different owners) is a bit unrealistic.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 5, 2019)

boston_e said:


> There is always a full season pass available at whichever is your favorite Vermont mountain.


The pass price at Stratton almost doubled for me now that they're IKON.  Guess I'll be going with a Peak Pass again


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

shame on you for ever holding a stratton only pass in the first place


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## drjeff (Mar 5, 2019)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> I still dont know how Peaks gets a away with such a cheap product. Simply cant say no to the explorer option


Honestly wish they would up upped their prices a bit. Weekend crowds, especially Saturdays, have been crazy this season... To the point where many of us Mount Snow regulars now have come to realize that what used to be a "big" holiday weekend crowd is now more like a normal Saturday, and a "big" holiday weekend crowd, noticably larger than the old version of it...

And it's not just season passes doing this, there's a bunch of "paper tickets" being sold as well!!

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## boston_e (Mar 5, 2019)

A Stratton full season pass used to be appx $450?  I find that hard to believe, although I never shopped for one so who knows...


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## icecoast1 (Mar 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> shame on you for ever holding a stratton only pass in the first place



I live in the area so Stratton and MT Snow are the closest.  Actually the couple years they did the Mt Snow/ Stratton passes were nice, getting to ride them both for a reasonable price was nice


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## icecoast1 (Mar 5, 2019)

boston_e said:


> A Stratton full season pass used to be appx $450?  I find that hard to believe, although I never shopped for one so who knows...



It was about 350 if were under 30 the year before they went IKON.  Also a couple seasons you could get Mount Snow and Stratton for that price if you were under 30


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## drjeff (Mar 5, 2019)

icecoast1 said:


> It was about 350 if were under 30 the year before they went IKON.  Also a couple seasons you could get Mount Snow and Stratton for that price if you were under 30


As a parent, I am just happy that Peak "came to their senses" a few years ago and dropped the cost of their kids pass to the same price point as the drifter pass for the 18-29 crowd.. 

The older model where the kids pass was $250-$300 more than the drifter pass often felt like a slap in the face to families that ski.... 

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## Edd (Mar 5, 2019)

I’m pondering getting 3 passes next year. I like variety but I spend a lot of time in the MWV. So, getting the Peak Traveler ($379), the Cranmore/BW Sun N Ski ($519) and the Ikon Base ($649) would run me $1547. That’s a lot. It would take care of a western trip and give me access all over the east, including Canada. 

If I did 35 days I’d be paying $44 a day. I’ll be damned if I buy a single lift ticket. This year I went with the Peak Traveler only but I’ve eaten shit on buying tix at BW, Killington, Le Massif, Mont-Sainte Anne, and an upcoming Steamboat trip will be ludicrously expensive. After that trip, I’m going to determine what I’ve spent this year and make a decision. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

lol peaks pass website says one of their ohio properties has a 1750 foot vertical. lying liars and their crappy products.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2019)

Edd said:


> I’m pondering getting 3 passes next year. I like variety but I spend a lot of time in the MWV. So, getting the Peak Traveler ($379), the Cranmore/BW Sun N Ski ($519) and the Ikon Base ($649) would run me $1547. That’s a lot. It would take care of a western trip and give me access all over the east, including Canada.
> 
> If I did 35 days I’d be paying $44 a day. I’ll be damned if I buy a single lift ticket. This year I went with the Peak Traveler only but I’ve eaten shit on buying tix at BW, Killington, Le Massif, Mont-Sainte Anne, and an upcoming Steamboat trip will be ludicrously expensive. After that trip, I’m going to determine what I’ve spent this year and make a decision.
> 
> ...



At first it was one pass.  And I loved it.  Then it was two passes.  And I loved it more. Now it is three passes.   

As someone who has the equivalent of three passes, I say go for it if that is what you like to do.  It gives me good variety and I go where I want to when I want to.  I have three and I am not crazy...at least I say I am not crazy :dunce:


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## boston_e (Mar 5, 2019)

Edd said:


> I’m pondering getting 3 passes next year. I like variety but I spend a lot of time in the MWV. So, getting the Peak Traveler ($379), the Cranmore/BW Sun N Ski ($519) and the Ikon Base ($649) would run me $1547. That’s a lot. It would take care of a western trip and give me access all over the east, including Canada.
> 
> If I did 35 days I’d be paying $44 a day. I’ll be damned if I buy a single lift ticket. This year I went with the Peak Traveler only but I’ve eaten shit on buying tix at BW, Killington, Le Massif, Mont-Sainte Anne, and an upcoming Steamboat trip will be ludicrously expensive. After that trip, I’m going to determine what I’ve spent this year and make a decision.
> 
> ...



Do Cranmore and Bretton Woods really add that much value?  You could save a couple of hundred by just going up to a full Peak pass and still have great options in MVW area with Attitash and Wildcat... plus it would solve a Saturday problem for you (If you ever ski on the weekends)


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## cdskier (Mar 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> lol peaks pass website says one of their ohio properties has a 1750 foot vertical. lying liars and their crappy products.



Or a simple honest mistake of someone copying and pasting the info from the Attitash page on their website and simply forgetting to update all the numbers to reflect Alpine Valley instead of Attitash.

Don't particularly know why some people feel the need to shit on certain resorts/pass products. If you don't like it...move on and ignore it.


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## Edd (Mar 5, 2019)

boston_e said:


> Do Cranmore and Bretton Woods really add that much value?  You could save a couple of hundred by just going up to a full Peak pass and still have great options in MVW area with Attitash and Wildcat... plus it would solve a Saturday problem for you (If you ever ski on the weekends)



Cranmore/BW are useful in that region on the windy days when Wildcat sucks.  Also, my wife loves BW.  I wish that joint pass had a cheaper weekdays only option. I do not ski Saturdays and Sundays are rare for me. I’m not a fan of Attitash, personally.


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## elks (Mar 5, 2019)

Peak Pass is still a great deal. Early season at Mt Snow and Late Season at Wildcat are awesome and crowds aren't an issue. Crotched mid-season is uncrowded.

Ikon, even the Base pass gives you 30 days in New England. 5 more if you venture to Quebec. Swing for the Regular pass and you get Unlimited Stratton.

Not sure how these are unappealing deals. People have a short memory. Things have improved in recent years with these multi-resorts passes.


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## Edd (Mar 5, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> At first it was one pass.  And I loved it.  Then it was two passes.  And I loved it more. Now it is three passes.
> 
> As someone who has the equivalent of three passes, I say go for it if that is what you like to do.  It gives me good variety and I go where I want to when I want to.  I have three and I am not crazy...at least I say I am not crazy :dunce:



What passes did you go with this year?


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## gregnye (Mar 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> if you cannot string together an excellent eastern season with ikon base + the other more novel products we all discuss here all the time, then you don't deserve a 50 day season.



Not everyone has enough money to afford 2 passes. So it's only one good one or no deal.

And I agree. The pass selection sucks here on the east coast. But honestly I'm kinda ok with it because some of my friends out in Colorado have experienced such crowds at resorts out there that they don't really enjoy the skiing experience anymore which is sad. 

And the colorado ski area pass market really has furthered the wealth gap between the rich and the poor. There's the wealthy who have moved out Colorado from California to ski and retire. And then theres my generation who is still relatively new to the workforce post college and moving out there and realizing that its hard to start learning how to ski with day tickets over $100 a day. 

So in a way the east coast is better in terms of cheaper skiing at non-corporate resorts. I mean we've even got state-owned resorts in New York and New Hampshire! I know people on this site tend to hate the government but at this point I have more faith in the state of NH to keep skiing affordable then I do Vail.


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## JimG. (Mar 5, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> At first it was one pass.  And I loved it.  Then it was two passes.  And I loved it more. Now it is three passes.
> 
> As someone who has the equivalent of three passes, I say go for it if that is what you like to do.  It gives me good variety and I go where I want to when I want to.  I have three and I am not crazy...at least I say I am not crazy :dunce:



I have 2...Killington and Belleayre/Gore/Whiteface.

K, Belle and Gore all less than 3:15 from my front door. Except for Belle all great terrain. Wish I could justify a Peaks pass also but Wildcat is just too far away (5:30) to make it possible. Don't really care too much about their other properties although it would be nice for Hunter on weekends I don't want to go far. Belle currently fills that need for local skiing.

Not getting on an airplane to ski, so western properties are irrelevant to me.


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## Pez (Mar 5, 2019)

I was at mount snow for the first time this year on Sunday.  It did seem a lot busier than it used to a couple years ago especially for early March.  

Their Sunday afternoon ticket is still the best bargain around.  Cost me 30 bucks for the afternoon. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

there are plenty of cheap pass options in colorado. like under $400 cheap. the i-70 crowds are the problem, not the cost of skiing. 

and you lack any historical perspective. these multi mountain passes are new-ish. years ago there were only single mountain passes, which generally ran >$1000. you now have multiple multi mountain pass options under $1000, and the indies have lowered their individual season pass prices to be competitive with the conglomerates. the inexpensive pass options at places like bolton and magic are absurd. magic has like 15 different configurations of their pass.


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## Zand (Mar 5, 2019)

When this year is said and done I will have 10 days out west at Ikon resorts. The Ikon base pass was $600something. The way I look at it, I'm skiing the western resorts for $60ish a day, so basically I bought a card that got me 50+% off my days in the west and also includes ~30 free days in New England. And the eastern options (except Stratton and Loon) sure don't suck.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 5, 2019)

kelly001 said:


> Peak Pass is still a great deal. Early season at Mt Snow and Late Season at Wildcat are awesome and crowds aren't an issue. Crotched mid-season is uncrowded.
> 
> Ikon, even the Base pass gives you 30 days in New England. 5 more if you venture to Quebec. Swing for the Regular pass and you get Unlimited Stratton.
> 
> Not sure how these are unappealing deals. People have a short memory. Things have improved in recent years with these multi-resorts passes.



I'm sure they're great if you want to travel a lot and have the means to buy lodging at all these places, not everybody has the luxary of being able to do that.  These new passes are definitely an improvement for a lot of people, but not everyone.  I agree though the peak pass is a good deal, almost too good as Dr Jeff said


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## slatham (Mar 5, 2019)

Zand said:


> When this year is said and done I will have 10 days out west at Ikon resorts. The Ikon base pass was $600something. The way I look at it, I'm skiing the western resorts for $60ish a day, so basically I bought a card that got me 50+% off my days in the west and also includes ~30 free days in New England. And the eastern options (except Stratton and Loon) sure don't suck.



I think you did way better than 50% off. Most day tickets out west at major resorts are $150-225! 

I too like the Ikon base, especially if a Western trip is the mix. I’d like to ski Stratton (weekday), Killington and Sugarbush, but I doubt I can get to each of them more than 5 times anyhow. Couple that with a pass from Magic at less than $500 and your all set.


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## prsboogie (Mar 5, 2019)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> I still dont know how Peaks gets a away with such a cheap product. Simply cant say no to the explorer option


It's pretty simple, do not replace a 30 year old lift or replace lodges in New Hampshire

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## SKI-3PO (Mar 5, 2019)

kelly001 said:


> Ikon, even the Base pass gives you 30 days in New England. 5 more if you venture to Quebec. Swing for the Regular pass and you get Unlimited Stratton.


If the Quebec you’re talking about is Tremblant, it is unlimited on the Base Pass.


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## boston_e (Mar 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and you lack any historical perspective. these multi mountain passes are new-ish. years ago there were only single mountain passes, which generally ran >$1000. you now have multiple multi mountain pass options under $1000, and the indies have lowered their individual season pass prices to be competitive with the conglomerates. the inexpensive pass options at places like bolton and magic are absurd. magic has like 15 different configurations of their pass.



This.  I don't remember exact figures but if I am remembering correctly, when I was in my late 20's a Killington pass (and then they did come out with the American Ski Company ski the east pass... or some similar name) was something like $1200 for early season purchase and there was no discount for being under 30.  It took about 20 days of skiing before the pass started to "pay off".

At some point they started in with the bronze, silver and gold passes and they became pretty cheap...and brought the crowds with them.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2019)

Edd said:


> What passes did you go with this year?



Alta/Snowbird and a Brighton night pass.


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## gregnye (Mar 5, 2019)

boston_e said:


> This.  I don't remember exact figures but if I am remembering correctly, when I was in my late 20's a Killington pass (and then they did come out with the American Ski Company ski the east pass... or some similar name) was something like $1200 for early season purchase and there was no discount for being under 30.  It took about 20 days of skiing before the pass started to "pay off".



But the day tickets were cheaper! Even in my lifetime I've seen walk-up day tickets in the $60-70 range. And $70 was Loon. Now it's almost $100 a day (or over if it's out west).

This is simply a transition to a subscription-based model. Every company wants to do it now, ever since the success of the cell phone industry. We don't pay for CD's or per song (on iTunes) anymore. Now it's subscription-based Spotify and Netflix or even worse Adobe Creative Cloud (this one really annoys me).

Subscription-based models are preferred because the income comes in every month regardless what happens. Recently ski areas are jumping in on this model and its just annoying. I like flexibility and not commitment. I like being able to pick the ski area with the highest snow total and ski it once. I like cheap day tickets.


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## lerops (Mar 5, 2019)

My only complaint is that they took away Catskills and NY state and are not bringing them back. That was giving NY skiers good closer options as I have a 9 yr old daughter and hard to drive 4+ hrs each way for two days of skiing. 

If I were Epic, I’d have done something on that to grab the NY market. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

Yea, definitely missing the NY spots from max on ikon ... would love to see them grab windham and partner with nys for the others


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## Zand (Mar 5, 2019)

lerops said:


> My only complaint is that they took away Catskills and NY state and are not bringing them back. That was giving NY skiers good closer options as I have a 9 yr old daughter and hard to drive 4+ hrs each way for two days of skiing.
> 
> If I were Epic, I’d have done something on that to grab the NY market.
> 
> ...



Gotta wonder if there was some kind of disconnect between NY state and Alterra on the kickback $ from each day skied. You'd think they would've tried as hard as they could to get Belleayre, Gore, and Whiteface on Epic as NYC would be a huge market for them.


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## cdskier (Mar 5, 2019)

boston_e said:


> This.  I don't remember exact figures but if I am remembering correctly, when I was in my late 20's a Killington pass (and then they did come out with the American Ski Company ski the east pass... or some similar name) was something like $1200 for early season purchase and there was no discount for being under 30.  It took about 20 days of skiing before the pass started to "pay off".
> 
> At some point they started in with the bronze, silver and gold passes and they became pretty cheap...and brought the crowds with them.



New England Ski History has a fairly decent amount of data on full adult season pass prices as well as day ticket prices.

For example for Killington: https://newenglandskihistory.com/Vermont/killington.php
Scroll down near the bottom to the "Year by Year History" section. There are some gaps in the data, but still lots of interesting info in there.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 5, 2019)

I thought Peak had it priced  best with the tiered product offering 3-4 years ago pre-Hunter. 

IIRC it was about $900 for the full Noreaster pass that included Snow, Attitash, Cat and Crotched.

Then you had the Granite Pass for the NH 3 at like $700

And a Crotched pass at about $300

The introduction of the Ranger pass was still a financial jump for Crotched skiers.  They were pissed about it.  But you could still ski Holidays on a cheaper pass.  Now that has gone away for next season. 

Makes zero sense for primarily Crotched skiers to pay Mt Snow rates while also offering a cheap as shit pass price valid at Mt Snow to bring in even more crowds.  



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## thebigo (Mar 5, 2019)

drjeff said:


> As a parent, I am just happy that Peak "came to their senses" a few years ago and dropped the cost of their kids pass to the same price point as the drifter pass for the 18-29 crowd..
> 
> The older model where the kids pass was $250-$300 more than the drifter pass often felt like a slap in the face to families that ski....
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



A slap in the face is exactly how crotched families feel today. Peaks made the decision to raise the price on middle class families in rural
New Hampshire, not the DC crowd, not the Philadelphia crowd, not the nyc crowd - rural new hampshire families that commit a significant percentage of their household income towards passes, kids programs, food, booze, etc

All the while their two other mountains in nh offer undrinkable water and a non functioning summit lift. And on top of it families with kids are forced to buy k spring passes because wildcat stays open for the mass kids on april vacation, then closes midweek for the local kids vacation.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> shame on you for ever holding a stratton only pass in the first place


Phantasy tour black board is thataway bro ---≥>>

Pretty sure Brownstein would call you out on some of the elitist hettier than tho posts you've been posting up lately. 

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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2019)

gregnye said:


> So in a way the east coast is better in terms of cheaper skiing at non-corporate resorts. I mean we've even got state-owned resorts in New York and New Hampshire! I know people on this site tend to hate the government but at this point I have more faith in the state of NH to keep skiing affordable then I do Vail.



You do realize the big "government-owned" resort in New York is almost $100 for a lift ticket right (with virtually zero amenities)?  That's not "cheap" unless you're comparing it to Vail, but anything is cheap compared to Vail.


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## Quietman (Mar 5, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> The introduction of the Ranger pass was still a financial jump for Crotched skiers.  They were pissed about it.  But you could still ski Holidays on a cheaper pass.  Now that has gone away for next season.
> 
> Makes zero sense for primarily Crotched skiers to pay Mt Snow rates while also offering a cheap as shit pass price valid at Mt Snow to bring in even more crowds.



I've long said that Crotched is a locals mountain and suggested that Peaks should offer a Crotched only pass. I understand the logistics of why they don't, but still think that they should.


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## thebigo (Mar 5, 2019)

Quietman said:


> I've long said that Crotched is a locals mountain and suggested that Peaks should offer a Crotched only pass. I understand the logistics of why they don't, but still think that they should.



Think you are onto something re logistics. The ranger passes would not scan on holidays this year. At first they requested people go to the ticket window to have their pass validated. When people refused they started manually applying stickers to the pass in the lift line, obviously became a shitshow.


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## machski (Mar 5, 2019)

Kind of surprised Ikon Base drops Stratton to just 5 restricted days this coming year.  Kind of crappy, especially given Stratton is Alterra owned.  I don't consider them in the same league as Aspen or DV, but that is what they are equating them as.  I would think Tremblant would be in that league over Stratton and need the redux in guests given their lower capacity lift system than Stratton.  Interesting.

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## deadheadskier (Mar 5, 2019)

Quietman said:


> I've long said that Crotched is a locals mountain and suggested that Peaks should offer a Crotched only pass. I understand the logistics of why they don't, but still think that they should.


Agree 100% and this years pricing is a step further away from that.  They will lose additional NH market share to Pat's, Gunstock and even McIntyre.  I bought a McIntyre pass this year to supplement my Peak pass because of the freedom access it provided in addition to Mac having a great carpet/ learning area for my 3 year old.

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## SKI-3PO (Mar 5, 2019)

Stratton is 5 days on the base pass this year as well. It has not changed.

https://www.ikonpass.com/en/shop-passes/ikon-base-pass-2018-2019


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## JimG. (Mar 5, 2019)

I hope the NYS mountains stay off of these multi resort passes.

I would have to re-evaluate my purchase of the NYS 3 in 1 if they go back even though I have seen no difference in skier density this season as opposed to last.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Alta/Snowbird and a Brighton night pass.



You must really hate Solitude?      

Seems 7 Days at Deer Valley, 7 Days at Alta/Snowbird, and unlimited Solitude for $949 would be tough to beat.


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2019)

I used to carry multiple passes. Im going the other way now where I get one pass (free) and buy tickets at local hills. Its a nice escape from the crowds honestly. A four pack to Powderhorn and some day tickets via liftopia and Im still under 500 bucks for the season total. Hell I walked up to beaver mtn and bought a 50 dollar ticket at the window and had a fantastic day.

I suggest saving some dough for the little places...they are cheap and we will miss them when they're gone more than you realize.


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> You must really hate Solitude?
> 
> Seems 7 Days at Deer Valley, 7 Days at Alta/Snowbird, and unlimited Solitude for $949 would be tough to beat.


7 days at altabird ain't enough imo. Also solitude is busy now. Solitudes biggest sell was an escape from the masses. The terrain is good but it skis smaller and has an akwerd layout.


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## gladerider (Mar 6, 2019)

on ikon this year and will be next year as well; however, in the next year or two i will be heading out to whistler/blackcomb. that year, i will be on the epic.
adding ORDA mtns to ikon would be a perfect pass for me.


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## Zermatt (Mar 6, 2019)

machski said:


> Kind of surprised Ikon Base drops Stratton to just 5 restricted days this coming year.  Kind of crappy, especially given Stratton is Alterra owned.  I don't consider them in the same league as Aspen or DV, but that is what they are equating them as.  I would think Tremblant would be in that league over Stratton and need the redux in guests given their lower capacity lift system than Stratton.  Interesting.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



Um...it has always been 5 restricted days.


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## machski (Mar 6, 2019)

billo said:


> Um...it has always been 5 restricted days.


Guess I missed that this year, thought it was blackout only.  Still idd as it is a fully owned Alterra Mountain and weakens their Base pass in New England given Epic Local's unlimited/unrestricted Okemo/Sunapee.

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## machski (Mar 6, 2019)

snoseek said:


> 7 days at altabird ain't enough imo. Also solitude is busy now. Solitudes biggest sell was an escape from the masses. The terrain is good but it skis smaller and has an akwerd layout.


Solitude is nice, but it depends what you like.  Honeycomb is fun but mostly short.  The longer good steep stuff all requires hiking for it at Solitude.  Yes, Alta requires some hiking for goods, but not to the same extent and Snowbird, well there us some hiking if you want but plenty right off the lifts.

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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2019)

machski said:


> Guess I missed that this year, thought it was blackout only.  Still idd as it is a fully owned Alterra Mountain and weakens their Base pass in New England given Epic Local's unlimited/unrestricted Okemo/Sunapee.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



My hunch is it may be more to do with Alterra realizing that when they bought Stratton, that #1 they had a mountain, that even with the upgrading of the snowbowl lift to a HSQ (which IMHO has made a big difference in the 3 days I've been at Stratton around the URSA pod watching races this year) that it was still often close to the maximum amount of guests on a busy day that it could handle from a trail crowding, lift capacity, parking availability, and lodge space, so opening it up to an unlimited amount of days on the IKON with it being the "closest" IKON resort to the NYC and Boston population bases may not be the best of ideas and #2, the Stratton "regular" clientele is a demographic that I'm sure Alterra looked at as a group who via the IKON they could get them out to their Western properties and spending more $$ out there, so why "anger" them too much by potentially increasing the crowds beyond what was already sizeable many days a season??


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## catskillman (Mar 6, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Honestly wish they would up upped their prices a bit. Weekend crowds, especially Saturdays, have been crazy this season... To the point where many of us Mount Snow regulars now have come to realize that what used to be a "big" holiday weekend crowd is now more like a normal Saturday, and a "big" holiday weekend crowd, noticably larger than the old version of it...
> 
> And it's not just season passes doing this, there's a bunch of "paper tickets" being sold as well!!
> 
> ...



agree - same at Hunter.  weekends are unbearable..


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## slatham (Mar 6, 2019)

drjeff said:


> My hunch is it may be more to do with Alterra realizing that when they bought Stratton, that #1 they had a mountain, that even with the upgrading of the snowbowl lift to a HSQ (which IMHO has made a big difference in the 3 days I've been at Stratton around the URSA pod watching races this year) that it was still often close to the maximum amount of guests on a busy day that it could handle from a trail crowding, lift capacity, parking availability, and lodge space, so opening it up to an unlimited amount of days on the IKON with it being the "closest" IKON resort to the NYC and Boston population bases may not be the best of ideas and #2, the Stratton "regular" clientele is a demographic that I'm sure Alterra looked at as a group who via the IKON they could get them out to their Western properties and spending more $$ out there, so why "anger" them too much by potentially increasing the crowds beyond what was already sizeable many days a season??



Agree. Anyone wanting to ski Stratton >5 days will easily pay up for the full Ikon pass.


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## machski (Mar 6, 2019)

slatham said:


> Agree. Anyone wanting to ski Stratton >5 days will easily pay up for the full Ikon pass.


Probably true, but kind of tags it as a premier destination of the Ikons owned by Alterra.  Guess I just don't consider it as such.  Been once, in no hurry to go back so 5 is fine with me on the base.  Not sure if that is the case at Stratton, why they didn't do the same with Tremblant.  Went up on MLK weekend on the Max couple years ago and it was a damn zoo on Saturday.  Sunday was a tad better as it was much colder and Monday not bad at all (Canadians all back to school/work).  But there were 45 minute lift lines that Saturday.  Doubt it has gotten any better, even with the Lowell Thomas Upgrade this year.

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## Kleetus (Mar 6, 2019)

gladerider said:


> on ikon this year and will be next year as well; however, in the next year or two i will be heading out to whistler/blackcomb. that year, i will be on the epic.
> adding ORDA mtns to ikon would be a perfect pass for me.



This 100%. As a current ORDA passholder, I have heard this on many a lift ride this season at Gore from other ORDA passholders and those who lament the death of the MAX pass. I'm considering not even getting an ORDA pass next year and just doing IKON and the Empire Card for the days I want to ski Gore and WF next year. 

Not that I want Gore to become super crowded from being on IKON, but it would be nice to have VT options paired with the ability to go out west and do everything on one pass vs. an ORDA only pass and having to patch deals together to ski elsewhere or doing an ORDA and IKON pass at a pretty hefty price. 

It's been a goal of ORDA for many years to increase skier visits, and at Gore, they have been mostly flat since the addition of all the new terrain and lift improvements over the last 10 years. Getting on IKON or even a multi-mountain pass such as Mountain Collective would definitely help.


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## pauldotcom (Mar 6, 2019)

1- I am not buying 2 passes.
2- Mount Snow has an excellent pass product; but without a west option, it really isn't feasible. I go out west usually every year, but without a pass, it would be $1000+ for me and my son to ski a week. I have a pass this year, but didn't go out west. I'm going out west next year, so not an option.
3- When I say local, I mean up to 2.5 hours. The IKON only has 2 mountains within that distance for me. Stratton is 1.7 hours and Killy about 2.2 hours. Sugarbush is 3 hours so I could do a couple day trips a year but wouldn't want more than that. So that's 12 days local. 
4- IKON has like 12 unlimited options for the $649 pass; yet none in the North East. I'm not a huge Stratton fan, but hell, at least give me that unlimited for the hardpack/ice days.
5- EPIC pass is decent with unlimited OKEMO and a little Stowe. But - Stowe is about 3.5 hours, so it's defiantly not a day trip. I prefer Mount Snow over Okemo because Okemo can be a little flat...


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## pauldotcom (Mar 6, 2019)

machski said:


> Kind of surprised Ikon Base drops Stratton to just 5 restricted days this coming year.  AlpineZone mobile app



Was Stratton unlimited last year on the Ikon base pass?


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## cdskier (Mar 6, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> Was Stratton unlimited last year on the Ikon base pass?



Nope. Same next year as it was this year. Unlimited on full Ikon but only 5 days on base.


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## boston_e (Mar 6, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> 1- I am not buying 2 passes.
> 2- Mount Snow has an excellent pass product; but without a west option, it really isn't feasible. I go out west usually every year, but without a pass, it would be $1000+ for me and my son to ski a week. I have a pass this year, but didn't go out west. I'm going out west next year, so not an option.
> 3- When I say local, I mean up to 2.5 hours. The IKON only has 2 mountains within that distance for me. Stratton is 1.7 hours and Killy about 2.2 hours. Sugarbush is 3 hours so I could do a couple day trips a year but wouldn't want more than that. So that's 12 days local.
> 4- IKON has like 12 unlimited options for the $649 pass; yet none in the North East. I'm not a huge Stratton fan, but hell, at least give me that unlimited for the hardpack/ice days.
> 5- EPIC pass is decent with unlimited OKEMO and a little Stowe. But - Stowe is about 3.5 hours, so it's defiantly not a day trip. I prefer Mount Snow over Okemo because Okemo can be a little flat...



Honestly it seems as if you might be looking for something that isn't realistic.  If you used all 5 days at Stratton and Killington plus 2 at Sugarbush, then took a western trip and got 5 days in out there, that brings your daily cost to appx $38 per day which is really pretty reasonable.

Depending on your sons age, that brings his cost to either $15 or $29 per day (child pass or young adult pass pricing)

With that said, I can see how the IKON is much better for a Boston based skier than a CT/NY based skier as it more easily opens up the days at SR, SL and Loon to add to the mix.  It would seem like Ikon should somehow get a NY resort into the mix.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 6, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Phantasy tour black board is thataway bro ---≥>>
> 
> Pretty sure Brownstein would call you out on some of the elitist hettier than tho posts you've been posting up lately.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



lol. that's a funny post. i like it. 

in real life, if i say jump, brownie says 'how high?'. he owes me a BIG ONE for some old personal stuff. i got to write the setlist for my 100th show bc he owes me his damn life. 

i've been surly lately on here. i'll tone it down.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i've been surly lately on here. i'll tone it down.



I'm sure a bunch of people were thinking it, but just chose not to post it.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 6, 2019)

boring groomers and the resorts that house them make me irrationally angry. admitted.


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## pauldotcom (Mar 6, 2019)

boston_e said:


> With that said, I can see how the IKON is much better for a Boston based skier than a CT/NY based skier as it more easily opens up the days at SR, SL and Loon to add to the mix.  It would seem like Ikon should somehow get a NY resort into the mix.



Agree. Sunday River is a nice option but much closer for Boston folks.

Not looking for unrealistic pass; just want the Max Pass back lol.


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## Jully (Mar 6, 2019)

Sadly I think the Max pass was unrealistic...


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## boston_e (Mar 6, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> Agree. Sunday River is a nice option but much closer for Boston folks.
> 
> Not looking for unrealistic pass; just want the Max Pass back lol.



I agree with you there... the max pass had much more appeal to me than ikon or epic.  I did the “add on” to our home mountains season pass and it was a great value.


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## prsboogie (Mar 6, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> 1- I am not buying 2 passes.
> 2- Mount Snow has an excellent pass product; but without a west option, it really isn't feasible. I go out west usually every year, but without a pass, it would be $1000+ for me and my son to ski a week. I have a pass this year, but didn't go out west. I'm going out west next year, so not an option.
> 3- When I say local, I mean up to 2.5 hours. The IKON only has 2 mountains within that distance for me. Stratton is 1.7 hours and Killy about 2.2 hours. Sugarbush is 3 hours so I could do a couple day trips a year but wouldn't want more than that. So that's 12 days local.
> 4- IKON has like 12 unlimited options for the $649 pass; yet none in the North East. I'm not a huge Stratton fan, but hell, at least give me that unlimited for the hardpack/ice days.
> 5- EPIC pass is decent with unlimited OKEMO and a little Stowe. But - Stowe is about 3.5 hours, so it's defiantly not a day trip. I prefer Mount Snow over Okemo because Okemo can be a little flat...


If I wasn't willing to day trip 3.5 I would never ski. Must be nice being 1.5 hours away from places bigger and less crowded than Wachusett or 2 from Crotched. They serve a purpose but need more options than that.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2019)

prsboogie said:


> If I wasn't willing to day trip 3.5 I would never ski.



Same.  The "closest" place I ski is Platty at 2h 45m.  

Most of my days are spent in n.VT which is 6.5 or 7 hours, PLUS the 1.5'ish RT drive to the hills.

A few trips each year to Lake Placid at 5h, and last year & this year I've thrown Magic into the mix as it's "only" a 4h drive.  The number of hours I spend driving each season just to ski is probably staggering, I say "probably" because I've never added it up.


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## ironhippy (Mar 7, 2019)

Jeepers I thought the people in Denver had it bad with their I70 commute.

I just wouldn't ski if the closest hill was 3 hours away.

Hell based on some of your weekends, the Chic Chocs are a day trip for me (5 hours one way)

I've driven 6 hours for a weekend, but I find it harder and harder to justify that and haven't done it in a few years.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2019)

I certainly wouldn't be making the journey from Jersey to VT with any sort of frequency if I lived down there.  Probably 3-4 trips a year and then Poconos and Catskills to scratch the itch. 

 If I had to rely on NYC metro for employment, I'd likely be looking to live somewhere around Nyack to shorten the commute to ski country. 

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## Edd (Mar 7, 2019)

We’ve got it good on the N.H. seacoast but the Manchester area is a sweet spot as it cuts 45 minutes off the drive to the VT areas. Then you’ve still got easy access to everything up to Burke. 


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2019)

Edd said:


> We’ve got it good on the N.H. seacoast but the Manchester area is a sweet spot as it cuts 45 minutes off the drive to the VT areas. Then you’ve still got easy access to everything up to Burke.


Concord area is even better. Living just west of Concord 2 hrs can get me all the way to Sugarbush or Burke everything in So Vt under 2. Wildcat around 2:15 is the only large NH ski area over 2. Only ME and way north in VT (Jay and Smuggs) are pushing the day trip envelope. I have 3 ski areas within a 1/2 hour - Pats, Crotched and Sunapee - that can scratch the itch.


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## cdskier (Mar 7, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> I certainly wouldn't be making the journey from Jersey to VT with any sort of frequency if I lived down there.  Probably 3-4 trips a year and then Poconos and Catskills to scratch the itch.
> 
> If I had to rely on NYC metro for employment, I'd likely be looking to live somewhere around Nyack to shorten the commute to ski country.



There's quite a few of us down here in NJ that go to VT on a regular basis. I drive 5 hours to Sugarbush pretty much every weekend. You do get used to it, although every once in a while I do start to wonder wtf I'm doing.

According to Google Maps, Nyack would shorten my trip to SB only by about 20 minutes, however it would also add about 20 minutes to my daily commute (I live in North Jersey and work in Central Jersey).

I'm definitely jealous of people that live within much shorter times to mountains (MA, NH, etc)


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2019)

cdskier said:


> There's quite a few of us down here in NJ that go to VT on a regular basis. I drive 5 hours to Sugarbush pretty much every weekend. You do get used to it, although every once in a while I do start to wonder wtf I'm doing.
> 
> According to Google Maps, Nyack would shorten my trip to SB only by about 20 minutes, however it would also add about 20 minutes to my daily commute (I live in North Jersey and work in Central Jersey).
> 
> I'm definitely jealous of people that live within much shorter times to mountains (MA, NH, etc)


My perspective might be a bit different than some due to all the traveling I do for work.  I put 4600 miles on my vehicle last month alone, about 4400 of that work related.  So, even 2:15 to Wildcat can seem long and if I don't anticipate good conditions, I'll opt for 1:15 to Crotched to scratch the itch. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## drjeff (Mar 7, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> I certainly wouldn't be making the journey from Jersey to VT with any sort of frequency if I lived down there.  Probably 3-4 trips a year and then Poconos and Catskills to scratch the itch.
> 
> If I had to rely on NYC metro for employment, I'd likely be looking to live somewhere around Nyack to shorten the commute to ski country.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app





cdskier said:


> There's quite a few of us down here in NJ that go to VT on a regular basis. I drive 5 hours to Sugarbush pretty much every weekend. You do get used to it, although every once in a while I do start to wonder wtf I'm doing.
> 
> According to Google Maps, Nyack would shorten my trip to SB only by about 20 minutes, however it would also add about 20 minutes to my daily commute (I live in North Jersey and work in Central Jersey).
> 
> I'm definitely jealous of people that live within much shorter times to mountains (MA, NH, etc)



Without putting much thought at all into it, I'm able to think of basically 10 families whom I either ski with, or my kids race with, who are Jersey/Long Island/NYC, who make the drive to Mount Snow basically every weekend between mid November and mid April, and don't even think twice about it and their anywhere between 3.5 and 5+ hour drives each way.....

Makes me realize that I shouldn't complain about the 2:40 drive I make each way each weekend....

There comes a point where it becomes part of one's, and one's families lifestyle, and you get used to it for sure....  It also "helps" to have other friends who make the same, if not longer drives, with the same frequency you do, to make you realize that you really aren't that crazy!


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## lerops (Mar 7, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> I certainly wouldn't be making the journey from Jersey to VT with any sort of frequency if I lived down there.  Probably 3-4 trips a year and then Poconos and Catskills to scratch the itch.
> 
> If I had to rely on NYC metro for employment, I'd likely be looking to live somewhere around Nyack to shorten the commute to ski country.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Well, I did exactly that and moved to Northern Westchester, and my commute to the city was horrible approaching 3 hours a day RT. So I moved back to the city.  Now I drive extra for skiing. I don’t mind it but it is hard on the kid, and I don’t want her to dislike skiing because if the drive. So I ski a bit less and keep sane.


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## gladerider (Mar 7, 2019)

cdskier said:


> There's quite a few of us down here in NJ that go to VT on a regular basis. I drive 5 hours to Sugarbush pretty much every weekend. You do get used to it, although every once in a while I do start to wonder wtf I'm doing.
> 
> According to Google Maps, Nyack would shorten my trip to SB only by about 20 minutes, however it would also add about 20 minutes to my daily commute (I live in North Jersey and work in Central Jersey).
> 
> I'm definitely jealous of people that live within much shorter times to mountains (MA, NH, etc)



i managed to convince my wife to do the trip every other weekend. it is a long drive from here in NJ.


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## Terry (Mar 8, 2019)

Shawnee peak, king pine, cranmore,  black nh, wildcat, attitash,  Sunday river,  mt abram, all within an hour drive for me. Add another half hour and I can get to loon, cannon, Bretton woods,  black of maine,  lost valley. I feel bad for people driving long distances to ski.


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## kingslug (Mar 8, 2019)

I dont mind the 5 hour drive to Stowe..just when its for ice..but if Stowe is crappy then usually most other places are as well. Ide rather ski in crappy conditions than not.
The 4 hour a day commute to the city sucks ..but living in the city was a nightmare for me.


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## kingslug (Mar 8, 2019)

I dont mind the 5 hour drive to Stowe..just when its for ice..but if Stowe is crappy then usually most other places are as well. Ide rather ski in crappy conditions than not.
The 4 hour a day commute to the city sucks ..but living in the city was a nightmare for me.


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## spring_mountain_high (Mar 8, 2019)

schlepping a family of four with two young'uns makes a YUGE difference as opposed to just me or me and my wife going.  also makes everything more expensive.  living in SE PA peaks pass is a good deal.  1:30 to JF/BB, 2:55 to hunter and 4:30 to mt snow.  would i like to live closer to bigger better skiing, well yeah i guess


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## njdiver85 (Mar 8, 2019)

I need to move to your neck of the woods!



Terry said:


> Shawnee peak, king pine, cranmore,  black nh, wildcat, attitash,  Sunday river,  mt abram, all within an hour drive for me. Add another half hour and I can get to loon, cannon, Bretton woods,  black of maine,  lost valley. I feel bad for people driving long distances to ski.


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## pauldotcom (Mar 8, 2019)

I wouldn't mind living in NH for sure. Better laws, less tax, and closer to more mountains. But if I were to move for better skiing - it would be out west. To bad my state retirement doesn't transfer! lol


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## jg17 (Mar 10, 2019)

Personally, I can't justify driving 5+ hours to VT every weekend, especially with no place to stay and since most days I'm flying solo. Peak was great this year with Hunter 2:15 away and JFBB an hour for days when I'm short on time/crappy weather for driving/whatever. Hoping I can definitely squeeze out a few more days at Hunter and maybe even Snow before the end of the season. Still not sure what to do for next year, though.


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## skimagic (Mar 10, 2019)

Nice chart in this article detailing some New England passes. I never heard of The Bold and Beautiful pass between Canon and Bretton Woods

https://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=752


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 10, 2019)

That's a real thing? Is there a Dynasty and a General Hospital pass too?


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## machski (Mar 10, 2019)

skimagic said:


> Nice chart in this article detailing some New England passes. I never heard of The Bold and Beautiful pass between Canon and Bretton Woods
> 
> https://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=752


The Bold and Beautiful has been brought up many times over the years on this board.  

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## Edd (Mar 10, 2019)

I bought B&B at least 3 years in a row. I may next year. 


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## pauldotcom (Mar 10, 2019)

I would even take Berkshire East on the Ikon pass... Something else that's close... Yea, agree, that Max pass was unrealistic. What a fantastic pass... Hey back in the day I remember you could ski Killington, Mount Snow, ME resorts, and some stuff out west with the same pass..


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## abc (Mar 12, 2019)

lerops said:


> Well, I did exactly that and moved to Northern Westchester, and my commute to the city was horrible approaching 3 hours a day RT. So I moved back to the city.  Now I drive extra for skiing


It worked out for me. 

I don't drive into the city, just take the train. Sure it's longer. But I don't have to pay attention. So it's a less stressful commute. 

In the mean time, my commute to the mountain is almost an hour shorter. More significantly, avoiding the drive through heavy rush hour traffic, it's also a less stressful drive. 

Overall, less stressful both ways. Almost a win-win situation. (granted, I'm older and more secure in my career. So I don't have to put in the long hours at the office. So the lose in TIME spend in daily commute is less of an issue for me. The gain is in the reduced stress).


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