# Stick or Auto



## wa-loaf (Aug 23, 2007)

What do you drive? Oh, and automanuals (tiptronic) are still automatics.

Both our cars are sticks. Subaru and VW. Although we might have to move into a minivan soon and will be forced to go auto. We'll always keep one 5sp around.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 23, 2007)

I drive Automatic and I've always driven Automatic since I started driving 12 years ago.  I've never learned stick and have no interest.  I figure..why make driving more complicated.  Plus I do alot of city driving and eat while I drive quite often..


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## cbcbd (Aug 23, 2007)

Two guys: both handsome, with well paying jobs, loving, caring, etc... 

One drives stick, the other auto.

Who would the girl pick?
The one with the stick.





GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I drive Automatic and I've always driven Automatic since I started driving 12 years ago.  I've never learned stick and have no interest.  I figure..why make driving more complicated.  Plus I do alot of city driving and eat while I drive quite often..


Yeah, I find that driving stick gets in the way of my lunch eating, beard shaving, and cell phone talking. Instead it forces me to pay attention to driving... how very annoying.


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 23, 2007)

Definitely stick, I feel like I have so much more control over my car, and it helps out alot in the mountains. I hate going uphill in an automatic and I have to practically floor it to get it to downshift and get any acceleration, yea, I realize you can manually downshift in an automatic, but it just doesn't feel right, ya know?

The only think I don't like about a stick is that there is always alot of traffic on I-5, esp. heading into L.A,  and there is a lot of hills on it as well. But I think the advantages of a stick outweigh its disadvantages, and the advantages of an auto


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 23, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I drive Automatic and I've always driven Automatic since I started driving 12 years ago.  I've never learned stick and have no interest.  I figure..why make driving more complicated.  Plus I do alot of city driving and eat while I drive quite often..



Yea I forgot about that. it does suck to drive a stick if your trying to eat at the same time. 

O yea you realize what this poll is called? View Poll Results: *Sick* or Auto

I chose to drive sick


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## wa-loaf (Aug 23, 2007)

llamborghinii said:


> Definitely stick, I feel like I have so much more control over my car, and it helps out alot in the mountains. I hate going uphill in an automatic and I have to practically floor it to get it to downshift and get any acceleration, yea, I realize you can manually downshift in an automatic, but it just doesn't feel right, ya know?
> 
> The only think I don't like about a stick is that there is always alot of traffic on I-5, esp. heading into L.A,  and there is a lot of hills on it as well. But I think the advantages of a stick outweigh its disadvantages, and the advantages of an auto



With your screen name I'd have been very suprised if you said auto. :smile:


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## cbcbd (Aug 23, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> With your screen name I'd have been very suprised if you said auto. :smile:


Lol...

...and don't get me started on auto Corvettes, Mustangs, or any car with muscle.


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 23, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> With your screen name I'd have been very suprised if you said auto. :smile:



Haha yeaaa, this screen name, I've had it since 6th grade, use it for *EVERYTHING*, so if you see this name somewhere else, chances are its me.

I'd still like to have a lambo, _someday........._


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## bvibert (Aug 23, 2007)

I chose stick, that's what I prefer.  I own and drive both though for various reasons.



llamborghinii said:


> O yea you realize what this poll is called? View Poll Results: *Sick* or Auto



Fixed it...


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## wa-loaf (Aug 23, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I chose stick, that's what I prefer.  I own and drive both though for various reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> Fixed it...



Thanks, I had 2 out of three right!


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## roark (Aug 23, 2007)

Never had an auto. They're nice for renting and driving around in strange cities though.


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## ctenidae (Aug 23, 2007)

Hate driving automatics. Can't stand it. 
Partly because I always stomp on the brake pedal with my left foot.


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## 2knees (Aug 23, 2007)

I've never owned an automatic.  My wifes current car is one however.  I almost talked her into buying the outback with a 5 speed but she doesnt have the interest in it anymore.  She had a 5 speed integra when i met her, that was a fun car to drive.  So for now, it'll be one 5pd (mine) and one auto from here on out.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 23, 2007)

The cool thing about Auto is it's less work..but I drive for transportation..not for fun..


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## klrskiah (Aug 23, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The cool thing about Auto is it's less work..but I drive for transportation..not for fun..



auto.. you can drive with your ski boots on and still eat breakfast on the way to the mountain. 

never drove a stick before but it might be a good thing to learn


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## Marc (Aug 23, 2007)

People who drive automatics do so for two reasons:

1) They drive a lot in city stop and go traffic
2) They don't know how to drive a manual

Reasons I drive a manual: 

1) The potential for better gas mileage vs an automatic transmission in the same car
2) More control over my observed gas mileage
3) It's safer (assuming you know how to drive a manual properly)
4) I know far better what gear the car should be in than an automatic transmission does.
5) It keeps me more alert when I'm tired
6) Manuals are generally cheaper to repair and easier to work on, especially for the shade tree mechanic


I'll let everyone know if I think of any others


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## Greg (Aug 23, 2007)

Automatic. We're into a 10 year rotation when we buy cars now and I just inherit my wife's 5 year old car and we buy a new one for her. The two Jeeps are both automatic. We both drove standards for years and I'm not really sure how/why we started buying autos. Makes no real difference to me though...


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## wa-loaf (Aug 23, 2007)

Marc said:


> Reasons I drive a manual:
> 
> 1) The potential for better gas mileage vs an automatic transmission in the same car
> 2) More control over my observed gas mileage
> ...



7) Push starts when the car stalls or the battery is dead.


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## ctenidae (Aug 23, 2007)

8) Nothing's better than the sound of a well tuned engine hitting red line. Except maybe well tuned skis hitting fall line.


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## Paul (Aug 23, 2007)

cbcbd said:


> Lol...
> 
> ...and don't get me started on auto Corvettes, Mustangs, or any car with muscle.





Watch it there, Killer.....

I drove nuttin' but stick, til I met my wife...

Now I've had nuttiin' but autos. Can't use her as a designated driver if she will only drive auto, and I have a stick.

'99 convertible Mustang GT. Auto. Still drive like a bat outta Hell. Although, it would be more fun with a manual.


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## Hawkshot99 (Aug 23, 2007)

MarcHowes said:


> STICK!
> 
> Any stick drivers ever drive an automatic and hit the "phantom clutch" while driving?



I have never had a auto as my vehicle to drive.  Both of my parents have autos that I drive quite often though.  Almost every time when I get in one of their vehicles I go to push the clutch in to start the engine, and when my foot doesn't hit the pedal I am trying to figure out whats wrong.

The thing I love about a stick is that it can make a real crappy slow car feel fast.  When i got my first car, a 95' Ford Escort my sister had a 95' Geo Prizm (auto).  Both vehicles were painfully slow, but the Ford felt so much faster to me.

I will never own a Auto car, but would be willing to drive a auto truck, as it makes it so much easier backing up trailers, although I tow with a stick now.


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 23, 2007)

I drive a Maxima stick shift, i get to bored with an automatic , plus i feel like i pay more attention while driving with a stick in relation to road conditions, speed limits, etc.


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## skijay (Aug 23, 2007)

I took delivery of my first car with an automatic this past May.  I needed this as I am in stop and go traffic. It does rob the little 1.5 liter motor of power.  

My other vehicle is a 5 speed manual.  

After driving the automatic for the three months, when the other vehicle needs replacing, it will be an automatic.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm guessing most people on here drive Suburus????  I do..


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## wa-loaf (Aug 23, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I'm guessing most people on here drive Suburus????  I do..



I think there's a good variety of ski cars represented, but yea Subaru's got a good chunk of it.

'05 Outback here.

Might be an idea for another thread . . . :idea:


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## snoseek (Aug 23, 2007)

imo there is no real advantage to auto unless you really hate driving. better milage, more power, better in snow, lower matainence, more control. seems like so many manufacturers are trying to get away from manuels, shame.


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## awf170 (Aug 23, 2007)

I think you stick guys are actually starting to rival people who drive hybrids and mac users in smugness.  Congrats!


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## Hawkshot99 (Aug 24, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I'm guessing most people on here drive Suburus????  I do..



Negative.  Honda CRV......but want a truck


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Aug 24, 2007)

Stick is definitely more fun, and can make a boring car like my old Saturn a little more interesting, but automatics are way more convenient in traffic, and my wife couldn't have driven without an automatic when pregnant.

I see the mileage point with manual transmissions, but I wonder what would happen to all the manual transmission fan boys if they were faced with the choice between continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) and standards?  The difference between the two of them is much bigger (10%) than the difference between manual and automatic transmissions.  If money is a top concern, and the two transmissions cost the same, you've GOT to go CVT, no?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-06-12-cvt-usat_x.htm


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## ctenidae (Aug 24, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I'm guessing most people on here drive Suburus????  I do..




Acura TSX. It'd be a damned shame to lose the 6 speed on that. Red line at 7K rpm screams.


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## wa-loaf (Aug 24, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Stick is definitely more fun, and can make a boring car like my old Saturn a little more interesting, but automatics are way more convenient in traffic, and my wife couldn't have driven without an automatic when pregnant.
> 
> I see the mileage point with manual transmissions, but I wonder what would happen to all the manual transmission fan boys if they were faced with the choice between continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) and standards?  The difference between the two of them is much bigger (10%) than the difference between manual and automatic transmissions.  If money is a top concern, and the two transmissions cost the same, you've GOT to go CVT, no?
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-06-12-cvt-usat_x.htm



Even automatics are quickly catching up to manuals on fuel consumption. It's simply a sense of fun and being in control that keeps me in a standard. There have been many times I've been stuck in traffic where an auto would have been real handy. 

Nothing seems less interesting to me than a CVT, you might as well be driving a golf cart.

My wife drove a standard through both of her pregnancies, so I don't get that point.


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## Marc (Aug 24, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Stick is definitely more fun, and can make a boring car like my old Saturn a little more interesting, but automatics are way more convenient in traffic, and my wife couldn't have driven without an automatic when pregnant.
> 
> I see the mileage point with manual transmissions, but I wonder what would happen to all the manual transmission fan boys if they were faced with the choice between continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) and standards?  The difference between the two of them is much bigger (10%) than the difference between manual and automatic transmissions.  If money is a top concern, and the two transmissions cost the same, you've GOT to go CVT, no?
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-06-12-cvt-usat_x.htm



No, because the other problems inherent to a computer controlled gear ratio selector remain the same whether the means of changing the ratio is accomplished through a planetary gearset or a CVT.

A CVT also still relies on a torque converter which introduces a signifcant amount of the driveline power loss in an automatic transmission.  If there are CVT which are more efficient than manual transmissions, I'd love to know about them, though it is not enough of a concern of mine personally to outweight their other shortcomings.


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## wa-loaf (Aug 24, 2007)

ctenidae said:


> Acura TSX. It'd be a damned shame to lose the 6 speed on that. Red line at 7K rpm screams.



Nice, the only time I've driven a 6 speed was in Germany in a rental car. It was a Diesel too, i wish we could get some of the high performance diesels from europe over here. Nothing like cruising at 120mph in rush hour and everyone else is going the same speed. I think the slow lane was doing like 80.


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## Marc (Aug 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Nice, the only time I've driven a 6 speed was in Germany in a rental car. It was a Diesel too, i wish we could get some of the high performance diesels from europe over here. Nothing like cruising at 120mph in rush hour and everyone else is going the same speed. I think the slow lane was doing like 80.



Meh, my Audi's got a 6 spd.  Nothing special.  Usually fourth is still direct drive, and you just have two overdrive options instead of one.  Occasionally fourth is slightly less than direct drive and fifth is slightly more, but there isn't too much different between a 6 and a 5 speed.  The only real usefull purpose is the ability to have both a very close ratio transmission that doesn't drain gas on the highway since it still have that very tall 6th gear.


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## ctenidae (Aug 24, 2007)

Marc said:


> Meh, my Audi's got a 6 spd.  Nothing special.  Usually fourth is still direct drive, and you just have two overdrive options instead of one.  Occasionally fourth is slightly less than direct drive and fifth is slightly more, but there isn't too much different between a 6 and a 5 speed.  The only real usefull purpose is the ability to have both a very close ratio transmission that doesn't drain gas on the highway since it still have that very tall 6th gear.



I rarely use 5th, since 4th wraps up well into highway speeds, and beyond. There is about a 500 rpm difference between 5th and 6th, though, so that's good for mileage. 6th still has plenty of go power for highway use.


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## cbcbd (Aug 24, 2007)

MarcHowes said:


> Any stick drivers ever drive an automatic and hit the "phantom clutch" while driving?


Nah, but like ctnedia I have stomped hard on the brake pedal with my left foot - very surprising and jarring when it happens.



Paul said:


> *Watch it there, Killer.....*
> 
> I drove nuttin' but stick, til I met my wife...
> 
> ...


My point still stands - you gave up stick and still know it would be more fun with it. 
Only cars I don't hear people complaining about the lack of stick are AMG Mercedes - of course they don't have a stick option, but I guess they're pretty sick car in their own right.


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## ctenidae (Aug 24, 2007)

It kills me that Land Rover doesn't offer a stick anymore.
Really, what's the point of 4 wheel drive if it's not a stick?


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## wa-loaf (Aug 24, 2007)

ctenidae said:


> It kills me that Land Rover doesn't offer a stick anymore.
> Really, what's the point of 4 wheel drive if it's not a stick?



I might be wrong, but I don't think a lot of the traction and stability control functions work with standards.


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## Greg (Aug 24, 2007)

ctenidae said:


> what's the point of 4 wheel drive if it's not a stick?



The 4WDs on our 2000 Cherokee Sport and 2004 Grand Cherokee (both autos) serve us well for what we use them for (winter travel). I think you stick aficionados need to chill. For the average driver, is a 4WD with a stick really that much better than an auto? Sure, sticks are fun. I drove them for years so I get it, but come on, it's just a car. Point A to point B as far as I'm concerned... :roll:



awf170 said:


> I think you stick guys are actually starting to rival people who drive hybrids and mac users in smugness.  Congrats!



Right on, Austin! :lol:


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## wa-loaf (Aug 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> The 4WDs on our 2000 Cherokee Sport and 2004 Grand Cherokee (both autos) serve us well for what we use them for (winter travel). I think you stick aficionados need to chill. For the average driver, is a 4WD with a stick really that much better than an auto? Sure, sticks are fun. I drove them for years so I get it, but come on, it's just a car. Point A to point B as far as I'm concerned... :roll:



I think it's like any minority (mac users and hybrid drivers included). We feel a bit outnumbered and feel the need to defend our preferences. I read that 9 out of 10 cars sold in the US are autos. Pretty soon you won't be able to buy them at all, so our days are numbered.


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## tjf67 (Aug 24, 2007)

I used to drive a stick.  Now I drive Auto.

Most if not all the reason why people prefer stick no longer true.   As far as the more power you have to know how to shift and I bet most people do not including most of the people in here.


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## snowmonster (Aug 24, 2007)

Stick. I like "feeling the road" and being in control. When I pass another car, I like to downshift and feel the power in the car. In automatic cars, there's that awkward moment when you don't know when the car is going to downshift on you. Of course, you can also shift it to a lower gear (out of D), but there's that millisecond "hiccup" before it actually engages. With a stick, especially a car that you've driven around a lot, you get used to the nuances of the car and it "fit likes a glove."

I learned driving on a stick, so I'm totally biased. I'm in the market this year for a Jeep and am only considering one with manual transmision.


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## JimG. (Aug 24, 2007)

I prefer a manual transmission. But both of our cars are automatic. My wife doesn't drive a manual so I make that small concession to utility. 

Interestingly, Formula 1 cars, the pinnacle of automotive technology, utilize paddle shifters and fly by wire clutch systems. Basically automatics you shift with the touch of a lever on the steering wheel.

If you really like to shift gears, drive a tractor-trailer.


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## Greg (Aug 24, 2007)

I work with a guy who only has stick shifts. He once broke his left foot and had to periodically borrow cars from family. Not saying anyone should buy an auto thinking this might happen to them, but thought it was an interesting story.


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 24, 2007)

o yea if you're going over the speed limit and ya see a cop in the distance behind ya, instead of a slamming on your brake lights and making it obvious, you can downshift and ease off the clutch

haven't had the need to do that but i've been in my friends car when he pulled it off.


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## Dr Skimeister (Aug 24, 2007)

I drive a '02 1/2 VW Passat, 5 speed turbo. My favorite car of the dozen or so I've owned over the years. Front-wheel drive decent in snow (admittedly not as good as 4WD Landcruisers or Explorer I've had in the past), great highway cruising vehicle, and by far the best factory-installed speakers of any car I've ever been in. A ride without the right way to listen to music is like...a mountain without snow.


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## cbcbd (Aug 24, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Interestingly, Formula 1 cars, the pinnacle of automotive technology, utilize paddle shifters and fly by wire clutch systems. Basically automatics you shift with the touch of a lever on the steering wheel.


In higher end cars the speed of the auto shifting is much greater than a human would be able to do it manually with a clutch pedal - That's Mercedes' excuse, although it's true if you're looking at performance.  Plus, although these cars have paddle shifters they are not using slush-boxes and still have a clutch. 



llamborghinii said:


> o yea if you're going over the speed limit and ya see a cop in the distance behind ya, instead of a slamming on your brake lights and making it obvious, you can downshift and ease off the clutch


I haven't done that with cops, but I did once downshift to surprise the guy following behind me too close - a brake-check, but without brake lights.


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## JimG. (Aug 24, 2007)

cbcbd said:


> In higher end cars the speed of the auto shifting is much greater than a human would be able to do it manually with a clutch pedal - That's Mercedes' excuse, although it's true if you're looking at performance.  Plus, although these cars have paddle shifters they are not using slush-boxes and still have a clutch.



But the clutch disengages/engages by wire when the paddle is moved. As you said, the cars are moving too fast and the shift points come up too fast to use a pedal.

Ever seen an F1 race? The scream of those engines is primal.


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## cbcbd (Aug 24, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Ever seen an F1 race? The scream of those engines is primal.


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 24, 2007)

llamborghinii said:


> o yea if you're going over the speed limit and ya see a cop in the distance behind ya, instead of a slamming on your brake lights and making it obvious, you can downshift and ease off the clutch
> 
> haven't had the need to do that but i've been in my friends car when he pulled it off.


The E-brake works well for that Auto or stick.


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## Rushski (Aug 25, 2007)

History:
'79 Monte Carlo 8cyl. Auto
'83 Sentra 4cyl. Stick (unbelievable mpg, kills today's hybrids)
'90 Laser Turbo 4cyl. Stick
'90 CRX 4cyl. Stick
'95 Saturn SL1 4cyl. Stick
'02 Saturn VUE 6cyl. Auto
'06 Xterra 6cyl. Auto

Is there a pattern there?


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## Sky (Aug 25, 2007)

I drive an auto now.  Learned on a "standard" (what they were called back in the day).  It was a 3 speed "on-the-column".  ugh  No speed shifting there pally!

But now-a-days...I love the Auro.  Driving in traffic is tough with a stick.  Plus...drinking a coffee with a stick is a pain in the arse!

...and if I had a hot car, that wold mean I'd already won the lotttery.  SO...I'd go with the muscle car AND whatever is the equivalent of what used to be the hot auto tranni for muscle cars...a B&M Hydro.  

But a muscle car is still way down on my list of "what to do aftr I win the lottery".


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## Marc (Aug 28, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> I used to drive a stick.  Now I drive Auto.
> 
> Most if not all the reason why people prefer stick no longer true.   As far as the more power you have to know how to shift and I bet most people do not including most of the people in here.



What did I say in my first list that was not true?



JimG. said:


> I prefer a manual transmission. But both of our cars are automatic. My wife doesn't drive a manual so I make that small concession to utility.
> 
> Interestingly, Formula 1 cars, the pinnacle of automotive technology, utilize paddle shifters and fly by wire clutch systems. Basically automatics you shift with the touch of a lever on the steering wheel.
> 
> If you really like to shift gears, drive a tractor-trailer.



No, they're not automatic transmissions at all in that they still use a "manual" set up, IE, constant mesh gears engaged and disengaged by dog collars.  The difference is the clutches are solenoid driven rather than hydraulically or mechanically in passenger cars and the collars are engaged and disengaged using a sequential system with a rotating drum (just like motorcycles and most racecars that have a mechanical or hydraulic clutch).

If it had a torque converter and a planetary gear set, it would be closer to an automatic transmission.



Greg said:


> I work with a guy who only has stick shifts. He once broke his left foot and had to periodically borrow cars from family. Not saying anyone should buy an auto thinking this might happen to them, but thought it was an interesting story.



One could just as easly break your right foot and be totally fooked.  Incidentally, when I hurt my back recently mountain biking, I only used the clutch to get in in gear from a stop, and drove the rest of the time without the clutch.  Yes it can be done, no it's not hard.



JimG. said:


> But the clutch disengages/engages by wire when the paddle is moved. As you said, the cars are moving too fast and the shift points come up too fast to use a pedal.
> 
> Ever seen an F1 race? The scream of those engines is primal.



I went to the '05 Montreal Grand Prix.  It was awesome, except for all the smelly Europeans... (just kidding, I love Europeans.... correction... I love European women)


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 28, 2007)

Right now while my Subaru is being repaired I have a 2000 Neon as a rental..it's the biggest piece of shit I've ever driven..


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## YardSaleDad (Aug 28, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> I might be wrong, but I don't think a lot of the traction and stability control functions work with standards.



My stick Scion xB has both.


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## Marc (Aug 28, 2007)

YardSaleDad said:


> My stick Scion xB has both.



Yes.  Traction control and stability programs work with wheel speed indicators, ground speed indicators, steering wheel angle sensor, and accelerometers for measurement, and your brake system for correction.  Power transmission generally has nothing to do with modern systems, all of them work to limit slip or correct course by applying brake to one or more wheels individually. 

Of course there are still plenty of purely mechanical devices in the form of various types of limited slip differentials as well, but they can be used equally as easy with an automatic or manual transmission.


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## ctenidae (Aug 28, 2007)

YardSaleDad said:


> My stick Scion xB has both.




Yeah, it just occured to me that my last two Saabs and my current Acura (all sticks) also had traction control and such. Worked fine. My old S-10 (also a stick) didn't have anything built in. Traction was controlled by varying the amount of wood/bricks/snow/sand in teh bed.


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## mattchuck2 (Aug 28, 2007)

I drive a 2000 Jetta GLS . . . Stick.

At least I did until I ripped a hole in the oil pan and the engine seized.  Now I'm wating for the insurance company to decide my fate.


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## smitty77 (Aug 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> If you really like to shift gears, drive a tractor-trailer.


I work for a company that owns dozen of "big rigs", and oddly (or not) most of the drivers' personal vehicles are autos.  They all say that after shifting through 18 gears all day long, the last thing they want to do is shift on the way home.  I've driven a few around the yard at work, and can see how it gets old after a while.

Mark,  an addition to your list of why people drive autos:  They have to.  All of the company vehicles are autos, we don't get a choice.  But I'm not complaining because they're paying for it.

My wife's PT Cruiser is a manual (she insisted) and I'm glad.  I've driven the autos and they lack balls.  1st in her car seems a little low, but 2nd and 3rd have some good range.  I can rip up an on-ramp and be doing 60 in 3rd with lots of room left on the tach.


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