# The Squaw Valley, USA Thread



## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2011)

Well, since Trekchick, Philpug, and I have been highjacking the "have you bought your pass for the 2011-2012 season" thread with talk about Squaw Valley, USA, I figured I would start this thread. Yes I know that Squaw Valley is in California and that it is not in the Northeast, but there have been a few other folks who have been to Squaw Valley and talked about it (other than me). So here's one spot for the topic and folks can hit "search" to find it later. 

Feel free to talk about Tahoe, KT-22, High Camp, Granite Chief, the 1960 Olympics, Siberia, Shirley Lake, Snow King, and all things Squaw!

 :beer:


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## Trekchick (Jul 18, 2011)

If it doesn't disrupt the other thread, feel free to move my posts about their expansion plans to this thread.

FWIW, I'd be happy to show any AZ'er who cares to visit Tahoe around my home mountain(s)


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2011)

*2011 and 2012-2013 Lift Replacements/Changes*

Thanks to Trekchick, we saw the proposed lift removals for Squaw for the next two years. For anyone who has not been there, when you look at the map you get dizzy seeing all the lifts: 

It is hard to believe that there was only one lift at Squaw in 1949. Since then there have been waves of lift installs, once around the Olympics in 1960, more later in the 1970's and 1980's. And then some catch up in the 2000's with the install of the Funitel and several Six-packs. 







When we were there in February/March 2010 all you could see were lifts everywhere, with many duplicates. A lot of Yan fixed grips. A look at the High Camp/Gold Coast Basin area shows that there are WAY too many lifts.  

So seeing that some of them are being removed probably makes sense, given the fact that they now have several high capacity lifts on-line or coming online. 

As to lifts that are being removed: 

* Newport: it never ran the week we were there and it seemed to be overshadowed by Siberia and Headwall. It was short and not much used. I agree that she should be yanked. 

* Mainline: Ditto. With Gold Coast Six Pack there is more than enough capacity right now. 

So those lifts are going to be removed this summer (assuming that the snow melts out). 

As for 2012-2013: 

* East Broadway: did run the week we were there and was used. Looks like they are going to remove it and consolidate between the Gold Coast and new High Camp lift. 

* High Camp Lift: the plan shows that the lift is going to be removed and replaced by a lift that extends below High Camp. 

* Links: removed and replaced. 

* Bailey's Beach: removed and replaced by a "Transport Tow."

* The Pulse: removed! When we were there they were only running Gold Coast and not High Camp. So I don't know what the point of the lift was......

*Granite Chief: this is the one that the blogsophere is scratching their heads on. The existing triple was said to be slow, but adequate. It is going to be replaced by a HSQ. This remote lift will require some extensive helicopter work and some major excavation for many of the towers (some will be reused and left alone) and the terminals. For more: *click here*

The map: 






I don't know if Squaw One has been renovated or replaced. That lift was a first generation HSQ and was looking old, but was not operating when we were there. 

And WTF is up with Silverado? It did not spin AT ALL the week we were there and meant that we could not check out that pod of terrain. That pissed me off. Most of the other areas were accessible by the lifts that were running, but it seemed that Squaw was doing an ASC move of "money holds" with the lifts. If you look at the project map, it is not noted in the plans but is marked by a "-------" line. Has it been removed? 

Other thoughts?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2011)

Did you guys also check out the night skiing at all?


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## Trekchick (Jul 18, 2011)

We didn't get out to night ski because that was going on during the most chaotic part of our season at the shop and we were usually working late.   Besides, we had such an amazing powder season, we usually got out for first chair and fresh tracks.

Lots of great F-ing days this year
First Chair
Fresh Tracks
Free refills
Friends
Fun!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2011)

The night skiing didn't look too great IMHO.  The run from Gold Coast down to the base was boooorrrriiiiinnnngggg.  And the High Camp area was pretty flat.  I wished that they did the night skiing off of Snow King with Red Dog or Squaw Creek as the lifts.  I know that most of their clientele like the tram and all, but I'd prefer having better terrain for night skiing myself.


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## Geoff (Jul 18, 2011)

I've written here a few times that I took a hard look at moving to Tahoe back in 1999-2000.   I have a whole bunch of ex-Killington friends who either live there or are Bay Area every-weekenders with cabins.

I'm OK with winter skiing but spring skiing really is my thing.   Squaw, with all the elevations and exposures and their extended season, has some of the best in the world.   When you're skiing with regulars, they know how to follow the sun around.   I remember riding up the Granite Chief lift with my friend Dan.   At the top, there's this sign that says "Smoothie Open".   "What's that?"    We do a lengthy traverse to looker's right and hit a gate that's open into the trees.   A thousand+ feet of unskied medium-pitch corn snow that hadn't been skied.   I also have pleasant memories of skiing super-soft steep corn bumps on "the nose" to looker's left of Granite Chief.   You'd ski 20 turns, stop, and the corn snow would be hissing and slowly oozing down your line like lava.   Another close ex-Killington friend Debbie always described Squaw as "a mini-Whistler".   You don't get the 5,000 feet of vertical but you get endless pockets of fun & challenging terrain.

In the end, I decided that I didn't want to try telecommuting out of Tahoe.   Anything I'd tried to line up required that I be down in Silicon Valley frequently and I decided that I couldn't take that drive.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2011)

Geoff said:


> I've written here a few times that I took a hard look at moving to Tahoe back in 1999-2000. I have a whole bunch of ex-Killington friends who either live there or are Bay Area every-weekenders with cabins.
> 
> I'm OK with winter skiing but spring skiing really is my thing. Squaw, with all the elevations and exposures and their extended season, has some of the best in the world. When you're skiing with regulars, they know how to follow the sun around. I remember riding up the Granite Chief lift with my friend Dan. At the top, there's this sign that says "Smoothie Open". "What's that?" We do a lengthy traverse to looker's right and hit a gate that's open into the trees. A thousand+ feet of unskied medium-pitch corn snow that hadn't been skied. I also have pleasant memories of skiing super-soft steep corn bumps on "the nose" to looker's left of Granite Chief. You'd ski 20 turns, stop, and the corn snow would be hissing and slowly oozing down your line like lava. Another close ex-Killington friend Debbie always described Squaw as "a mini-Whistler". You don't get the 5,000 feet of vertical but you get endless pockets of fun & challenging terrain.
> 
> In the end, I decided that I didn't want to try telecommuting out of Tahoe. Anything I'd tried to line up required that I be down in Silicon Valley frequently and I decided that I couldn't take that drive.


 
Similar story here with the thoughts of moving there.  Tahoe was our first vaca out west ever and it opened our eyes.  That area is beautiful and life was so chill.  The Lake is amazing.  We considered moving there for my wife's residency, but that would have meant Reno (there is nothing for residency in Truckee).  My wife considered it for maybe four of the five days we were there.  The last night we stayed at the Atlantis Hotel and Casino in Reno and we really did not like the vibe at all.  A giant strip mall, casinos, etc.  Plus the crime rate and economy was not good.  Well, we can always visit Tahoe now that we are much closer.


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## Philpug (Jul 18, 2011)

No where in that expansion does it mention the addition of Alpine Meadows (and White Wolf)? Hmmmm


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 19, 2011)

Squaw is on my list of places to do for sure.  I've always found it interesting that they rated the lift and terrain it supplies instead of individual trails.  Looks like a great places to ski!


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## wa-loaf (Jul 19, 2011)

I've been to Tahoe 3 times. Never made it to Squaw. I think another trip is in order ...


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2011)

Philpug said:


> No where in that expansion does it mention the addition of Alpine Meadows (and White Wolf)? Hmmmm


 
Are you talking about the "private" chairlift on the backside of KT-22?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Squaw is on my list of places to do for sure. I've always found it interesting that they rated the lift and terrain it supplies instead of individual trails. Looks like a great places to ski!


 
It is a cool place to visit.  The rating system is a bit deceiving in that some areas have easier or harder stuff.  So consider the marking to mean the average I guess.  There is some gnarly stuff off of Red Dog and Squaw Creek Lifts on Snow King that folks overlook.  I think anyone coming from the east will notice that the terrain is steeper and the snow is deeper than anything they have seen.


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## Geoff (Jul 19, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Similar story here with the thoughts of moving there.  Tahoe was our first vaca out west ever and it opened our eyes.  That area is beautiful and life was so chill.  The Lake is amazing.  We considered moving there for my wife's residency, but that would have meant Reno (there is nothing for residency in Truckee).  My wife considered it for maybe four of the five days we were there.  The last night we stayed at the Atlantis Hotel and Casino in Reno and we really did not like the vibe at all.  A giant strip mall, casinos, etc.  Plus the crime rate and economy was not good.  Well, we can always visit Tahoe now that we are much closer.



I'd gotten as far as looking at houses.   This was before the price runup and I could have paid cash for a 'cabin' in the Alpine Meadows access road.   At the peak 5 years ago, those were getting flipped for $1 million as teardowns.   I really like the vibe of Tahoe City.   The 1% property tax rate locked in for life was rather appealing and offset the stiff California state income tax.   In the end, the fact that I'd be driving down to the San Jose mess just about every week scared me off.   San Francisco is nice as a place to visit or as a place to live if you're a trustafarian but East Bay and Silicon Valley are a part of the world I loathe.


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## Philpug (Jul 19, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Are you talking about the "private" chairlift on the backside of KT-22?



White Wolf is the "private chair". For those not up to what I am referring to. KSL who owns Squaw, is purchasing Alpine MEadows. "White Wolf" is private land in between the two areas and has a "yet to run" lift that could connect the two areas. I am sure that KSL will have that land under it's umbrella shortly. If (and when) this happens, this will make SquawWolfPine about 6800 acres of skiing, the largest ski area in the U.S., Vail is about 6300 acres. Coincidently KSL is based out of Vail but no affiliation to the resort. Vail is the other major player in the Tahoe region with their ownership of NorthStar and Heavenly.


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## snoseek (Jul 19, 2011)

Squaw kicks ass! All of Tahoe is really an incredible place. Last time I was there was three summers ago, hiking extensively for a few weeks and camping at fallen leaf lake. It was nice to see the area in summer and at that point I realized why so many people decide to call that area home, its year round awesomeness!. Mt rose looked like it would be a fun area as did sugar bowl.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2011)

Philpug said:


> White Wolf is the "private chair". For those not up to what I am referring to. KSL who owns Squaw, is purchasing Alpine MEadows. "White Wolf" is private land in between the two areas and has a "yet to run" lift that could connect the two areas. I am sure that KSL will have that land under it's umbrella shortly. If (and when) this happens, this will make SquawWolfPine about 6800 acres of skiing, the largest ski area in the U.S., Vail is about 6300 acres. Coincidently KSL is based out of Vail but no affiliation to the resort. Vail is the other major player in the Tahoe region with their ownership of NorthStar and Heavenly.


 
Holy sh*t!    Are they also buying Homewood?  If they did, then they could extend their resort all the way to the Lake.  I thought that AM was planning on connecting Homewood to AM.  I think they ran into some opposition and a bad market.


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## Philpug (Jul 19, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Holy sh*t!    Are they also buying Homewood?  If they did, then they could extend their resort all the way to the Lake.  I thought that AM was planning on connecting Homewood to AM.  I think they ran into some opposition and a bad market.



That was my first thought, how cool would it to be to ski from Granite Chief all the way to the lake. That would have also given them well over the 7500 acres that that Whistler is, making it the largest resort in North America. From what I understand, AM and HW are about 5 miles apart, a bit too far to connect. I am sure KSL will have "first right of refusal" if Homewood hits the market.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2011)

Yeah that would be sick.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2011)

OK, this thread needs some Squaw stoke: 
















The man who started Squaw, Alex Cushing: 






KT-22!






The aforementioned "White Wolf" chair: 






Mo' KT-22!
















HEADWALL!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 20, 2011)

So who is going to Squaw this season?


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## Geoff (Jul 20, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> So who is going to Squaw this season?



Squaw is very much out of my travel pattern.   I'm thinking I might try to get back to Monarch when I'm in Denver on business.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 20, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Squaw is very much out of my travel pattern. I'm thinking I might try to get back to Monarch when I'm in Denver on business.


 
Do you hit Arapahoe Basin or Loveland when you are in Denver?


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## Geoff (Jul 20, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Do you hit Arapahoe Basin or Loveland when you are in Denver?



Not recently.   I've October skied Loveland and May skied A Basin.   I actually prefer avoiding I-70.   I really want to head back to Monarch.  I love little time warp ski areas nobody goes to.


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## Edd (Jul 20, 2011)

I've taken 2 trips to Tahoe and spent a day at Squaw each time.  The "mini-Whistler" description occurred to me as well.  It's got that Wow factor that Whistler has.  

When I think of relocating out west Tahoe jumps to the top of my brain.  It's a truly amazing place to spend a week.


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## snoseek (Jul 20, 2011)

Not sure where I'll exactly land out west but definately would like to spend at least a few days in tahoe. I've done the drive from both grand junction and SLC. Driving across Nevada requires patience....


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## drewfidelic (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm hoping to get back to Squaw this season (my first and most recent visit to Tahoe is now a dozen years ago) and Squaw is one of the places that has left a big impression on me. There's so much terrain and it's designed to get you around the mountain well (unlike Heavenly, which is a mess of traverses and disparate trail pods.) I'd love to get a week in based at Squaw and really explore the mountain. 

I hadn't heard of the private lift construction on the back of KT-22 (or that the top of KT-22 is private land leased to Squaw) until this thread, which is a fascinating story.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 22, 2011)

drewfidelic said:


> I'm hoping to get back to Squaw this season (my first and most recent visit to Tahoe is now a dozen years ago) and Squaw is one of the places that has left a big impression on me. There's so much terrain and it's designed to get you around the mountain well (unlike Heavenly, which is a mess of traverses and disparate trail pods.) I'd love to get a week in based at Squaw and really explore the mountain.
> 
> I hadn't heard of the private lift construction on the back of KT-22 (or that the top of KT-22 is private land leased to Squaw) until this thread, which is a fascinating story.


 
My understanding, from talking to locals, is that a wealthy individual wanted to start his own private ski area and was able to lease the land on the behind Squaw Valley's KT-22.  When you disembark the KT-22 Express, you look over the bank and there is an incomplete chairlift that terminal (at least in 2010).


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## jaytrem (Jul 22, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> My understanding, from talking to locals, is that a wealthy individual wanted to start his own private ski area and was able to lease the land on the behind Squaw Valley's KT-22.  When you disembark the KT-22 Express, you look over the bank and there is an incomplete chairlift that terminal (at least in 2010).



Recent article on this subject...

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2011/01/06/whitewolf-new-details-emerge/

I actually got married on the tram a couple years ago.  Unoffical takeover.    The staff was actaully super receptive and the rest of the people on the tram seemed to get a kick out of being there.  I think one girl was more excited than our official guests.  We did it if after regular skiing hours, so it wasn't packed.  Great day of skiing too.


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## nycskier (Jul 26, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Similar story here with the thoughts of moving there.  Tahoe was our first vaca out west ever and it opened our eyes.  That area is beautiful and life was so chill.  The Lake is amazing.  We considered moving there for my wife's residency, but that would have meant Reno (there is nothing for residency in Truckee).  My wife considered it for maybe four of the five days we were there.  The last night we stayed at the Atlantis Hotel and Casino in Reno and we really did not like the vibe at all.  A giant strip mall, casinos, etc.  Plus the crime rate and economy was not good.  Well, we can always visit Tahoe now that we are much closer.



Ditto. I had started to move to Tahoe back in Nov 2008. Was going to move to Stateline, NV (which is the NV side of South Lake by Heavenly). Only problem was I was dating a girl in NYC I really liked. To make a long story short she is now my wife and we live in NYC. You could say I picked her over skiing (and its the only thing I ever picked over skiing)!

Love it out there. Spent the last 3 seasons basically going back and forth between Tahoe & NYC. I skied over 56 days out there this winter. It's amazing.

Heavenly pass (which was also good at Northstar & Sierra) was only $369! Amazing tree skiing. They had so much snow there this year you could ski fresh powder down firebreak all the way from the top of the Gondi to town. Its a 3,000 ft vertical drop out of bounds through the trees. Its freak'n awesome!!!!!

While Squaw is awesome you need to give Heavenly props for its trees and off piste terrain.


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## Edd (Jul 26, 2011)

nycskier said:


> While Squaw is awesome you need to give Heavenly props for its trees and off piste terrain.



Heavenly is a clusterf**k compared to Squaw but those trees are damn nice.


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## Philpug (Jul 26, 2011)

nycskier said:


> Ditto. I had started to move to Tahoe back in Nov 2008. Was going to move to Stateline, NV (which is the NV side of South Lake by Heavenly). Only problem was I was dating a girl in NYC I really liked. To make a long story short she is now my wife and we live in NYC. You could say I picked her over skiing (and its the only thing I ever picked over skiing)!
> 
> Love it out there. Spent the last 3 seasons basically going back and forth between Tahoe & NYC. I skied over 56 days out there this winter. It's amazing.
> 
> ...



While we do get down to Heavenly from time to time, we also have an Epic pass. Heavenly is kinda like Killington, if you don't know the mountain well, you can spend all your time trying to get someplace else and many times that isn't as good as where you are. The mountain seems to be set up with mirrors...you see a part of the mountain that looks good, it takes you 3 lifts to get there (one of them you have to take twice ) and when you get there you realize it isn't that good and then you see another part of the mountain that looks fantastic and realize thats where you just were. LOL.

Mott and Killebrew Canyons are a blast and yes there are some great trees, but like Kton, Heavenly does not deserve the rap it gets.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2011)

I wanted to go to Heavenly, but my sister-in-law and her husband had Squaw passes and we were in North Tahoe.  Another time.  The trail map is interesting.  

Anyone been to Homewood this season?  Anything changed?  Are their master plans dead?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got an Email from the resort touting their plans.  Here it is:  



> *YEAR ONE:  Winter 2011-12 / $15 Million
> 
> *_Squaw Valley USA will be investing approximately $15 million in base area and on-mountain improvements for the 2011-12 winter season to improve the guest experience in the following:
> _
> ...


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## millerm277 (Jul 27, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I wanted to go to Heavenly, but my sister-in-law and her husband had Squaw passes and we were in North Tahoe.  Another time.  The trail map is interesting.



If you enjoyed Squaw, you ought to make the drive to Kirkwood as well when you're out there.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 27, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> New Trail Names & Mountain Map
> This winter, Squaw Valley’s ski runs will have formally established trail names for the first time in the resort’s 62-year history, making the mountain more accessible than ever before. Squaw Valley is working with artist Gary Milliken to generate new trail map artwork. In addition to the artwork, Squaw Valley is simultaneously naming and assigning degree of difficulty levels to the never-before-named ski runs at the Lake Tahoe resort. Choosing from hundreds of unofficial trail names used by ski patrol, grooming teams and long-time Squaw skiers and riders, Squaw Valley has named runs from top to bottom, opting to use the most popular names of many of the ski runs.
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## thetrailboss (Jul 27, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> That's interesting. I guess most of the runs have names anyways... That must be a serious undertaking, especially if they are going to rate all of the trails now.
> 
> It's funny I commented on how they didn't name their trails earlier in the thread.


 
I guess they heard you! I will be waiting for the howls from diehards who do not like the names.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 27, 2011)

millerm277 said:


> If you enjoyed Squaw, you ought to make the drive to Kirkwood as well when you're out there.


 
Thanks.  I was overwhelmed by how many areas there were in that area that I had never heard of before.  Kirkwood is definitely on the radar.


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## drewfidelic (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirkwood is great. Loads of terrain -- much of it steep and they can catch more snow than other Tahoe mountains.


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## Geoff (Jul 27, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I guess they heard you! I will be waiting for the howls from diehards who do not like the names.



Everything already has local names.   I'll be interested to see how many match what gets put on the trail map.


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## nycskier (Jul 28, 2011)

Philpug said:


> While we do get down to Heavenly from time to time, we also have an Epic pass. Heavenly is kinda like Killington, if you don't know the mountain well, you can spend all your time trying to get someplace else and many times that isn't as good as where you are. The mountain seems to be set up with mirrors...you see a part of the mountain that looks good, it takes you 3 lifts to get there (one of them you have to take twice ) and when you get there you realize it isn't that good and then you see another part of the mountain that looks fantastic and realize thats where you just were. LOL.
> 
> Mott and Killebrew Canyons are a blast and yes there are some great trees, but like Kton, Heavenly does not deserve the rap it gets.



What you say about Heavenly is so true. If you dont know the mountain is is a maze of mirrors. If you know it its freak'n awesome!!!! I always joke I spend half my time there showing people where to go and the other half following people to learn new secrets twists and turns.

Killington is a great analogy for the place in the sense that if you know the place its way better!

As for Mott all I can say is I've made 1st tracks in it on more than one occation after huge snow dumps.  It was sick. Snow up to my waist. Insane!


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## Philpug (Jul 28, 2011)

nycskier said:


> What you say about Heavenly is so true. If you dont know the mountain is is a maze of mirrors. If you know it its freak'n awesome!!!! I always joke I spend half my time there showing people where to go and the other half following people to learn new secrets twists and turns.
> 
> Killington is a great analogy for the place in the sense that if you know the place its way better!
> 
> As for Mott all I can say is I've made 1st tracks in it on more than one occation after huge snow dumps.  It was sick. Snow up to my waist. Insane!



Well, we will have to ski it together next year.


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## Geoff (Jul 28, 2011)

nycskier said:


> Killington is a great analogy for the place in the sense that if you know the place its way better!



All my Killington friends who moved to the Bay area ended up at Squaw.   They were always similar in a lot of ways.   Big.   Brash.   In-your-face.


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## 180 (Jul 29, 2011)

We spent a week in Heavenly this past winter.  Loved every minute.  You certainly need to know your way around, but it was well worth it.  Of course the great snow helped also!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm sure that Heavenly is like any resort in that if you have no idea WTF you are doing you won't have fun and get lost.


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## millerm277 (Jul 29, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I'm sure that Heavenly is like any resort in that if you have no idea WTF you are doing you won't have fun and get lost.



Heavenly "channels" the Killington approach to mountain design. There are a lot of flat traverses and such that you can easily get stuck on if you don't know where you're going. But, they let you get across a huge area quickly when you need to, and you can avoid most easily when you aren't in such a rush if you know where you are. It's also got a bunch of terrible bottlenecks (Like the snowdon trails are at K...funnels too many people in) and undiscovered areas. (Like South Ridge, and the woods are).


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## nycskier (Aug 1, 2011)

millerm277 said:


> Heavenly "channels" the Killington approach to mountain design. There are a lot of flat traverses and such that you can easily get stuck on if you don't know where you're going. But, they let you get across a huge area quickly when you need to, and you can avoid most easily when you aren't in such a rush if you know where you are. It's also got a bunch of terrible bottlenecks (Like the snowdon trails are at K...funnels too many people in) and undiscovered areas. (Like South Ridge, and the woods are).



The difference is you can aviod almost all those flat traverses (if you know what you are doing) by ducking into the trees.

You can spend the whole day skiing at Heavenly without ever setting foot on a trail!


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## nycskier (Aug 1, 2011)

Philpug said:


> Well, we will have to ski it together next year.



Would love to but we have a new baby on the way in October! So looks like I wont be wintering in Tahoe this year. Heck I will be lucky to get day trips to Hunter!

Maybe 2013?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2011)

Well, the Unofficial Squaw Website has *weighed in on the plan to remove lifts* and conclude that it will be a mess.


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## millerm277 (Aug 5, 2011)

nycskier said:


> The difference is you can aviod almost all those flat traverses (if you know what you are doing) by ducking into the trees.



Sounds exactly like Killington to me. :lol:


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## Gnarcissaro (Aug 5, 2011)

I know it's been out, and most have probably seen it. But, no self-respecting open ended Squaw thread can be complete without a direct link to GNAR. 

I am the best rider on this thread!!!

RIP McConkey!


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## jerryg (Aug 9, 2011)

millerm277 said:


> Sounds exactly like Killington to me. :lol:



Sure, Heavenly's got traverses, but once you know how to she the area, it's no problem at all. The reason for the traverses is the shear size of the resort - area-wise. That said, Heavenly isn't about the trails, it's about the 4800 acres of nicely spaced trees and easily accessible side country. Then there are the bumps. They are steep and brutal. 

Does the resort compare to Squaw? Not at all, it's totally different. Squaw is straight out of Europe with rock faces in every direction, cliffs, and steeps that are as tough as anywhere.

My wife and I bought a place at heavenly a few years ago. I prefer Squaw and she prefers Heavenly. If I wanted to spend time in Tahoe every year, Heavenly was going to be our home resort. That being said, like others have noted, ski it with someone who knows it and you will not be disapointed.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 18, 2011)

For those who haven't seen it, Squaw has a pretty sweet web cam:  http://www.squaw.com/uber-cam


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## Trekchick (Aug 22, 2011)

You should come experience it this winter, since you only live 7 ish hours away.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 22, 2011)

Trekchick said:


> You should come experience it this winter, since you only live 7 ish hours away.


 
Yes, a repeat visit would be nice.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 27, 2011)

Squaw and Alpine Meadows merge.  The deal does not include Homewood.  From SAM:



> *SQUAW VALLEY AND ALPINE MEADOWS JOIN FORCES*
> SAM Magazine--September 27, 2011--Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows Ski Resort, Calif., announced today that the two North Lake Tahoe ski resorts have agreed to combine operations under common ownership and offer season passes and lift tickets that will allow guests to enjoy skiing and riding on both mountains. The transaction is expected to close prior to the commencement of the 2011-12 winter season. Andy Wirth, president and CEO of Squaw, will take the helm as the president and CEO of the new combined entity of Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows.
> 
> As part of the transaction, an investment affiliate of JMA Ventures (JMA), will convert its ownership of Alpine Meadows into partial ownership of the combined company. KSL Capital Partners, LLC (KSL), the owner of Squaw Valley, will be the majority owner of the combined company. Both owners have a deep commitment to the two resorts and to the Tahoe region. KSL, as part of its acquisition of Squaw Valley, has earmarked $50 million in capital improvements to Squaw Valley over the next three to five years, many of which will be apparent this winter. The closing of the transaction is subject to US Forest Service and the California Tahoe Conservancy approval. JMA will continue to independently own and operate Homewood Mountain Resort.
> ...


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## Smellytele (Sep 27, 2011)

yes got an email from them today:

===== Two Mountains, One Big Adventure =====

Dear Valued Guest:

On behalf of Todd Chapman, President and CEO of JMA Ventures, and myself we are excited to announce that Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows are combining operations. Now, on one ticket or season pass, our guests will have access to an unmatched variety of terrain and on mountain experiences. 

Effective immediately, both resorts can be accessed with the new Tahoe Super Pass. The Tahoe Super Pass creates more opportunities for the exploration, discovery, and adventure that guests of both mountains crave. To make it easy to access all of this great terreain we'll be providing a regular daily shuttle between them.

All of those who have already purchased an Alpine Meadows or Squaw Valley season pass will automatically have access to the other resort, while new passholders can purchase the Tahoe Super Pass for just $439 for an adult season pass. Get the details on the new season pass at SkiAlpine.com/SeasonPasses.

The idea of combining Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows did not originate with either of us. It was on a spectacular California bluebird day when I happened to be riding a chairlift with Todd Chapman that the actual transaction originated. We were talking about what an amazing winter we were all enjoying and lamenting that we didn't have more time to get out and enjoy the snow. 

As the chairlift ride came to an end the talk turned to the obvious concerning our two mountain resorts. In the end, this was an effort forged in a passion for the mountains, snow, skiing, and riding. I'm honored to lead the new company that has been formed as its President and CEO. 

I know I'm not the only one who is looking forward to skiing both resorts with one pass. Our customer research showed that the number one choice of Squaw Valley skiers and riders, when not skiing or riding Squaw, is Alpine Meadows. The number one resort frequented by Alpine Meadows customers, after Alpine, is Squaw. It’s not surprising since both resorts offer incredible terrain and breathtaking natural beauty.

We are truly thrilled to be making this announcement today and hope you will join us in celebrating as, together, we make history.

Best Regards,

Andy


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## Smellytele (Sep 27, 2011)

also this email: I do have one from Homewood as well but

Dear Alpine Meadows skiers and riders, 

We are thrilled to share with you the most exciting announcement of the 2011-2012 ski and snowboard season: Alpine Meadows Ski Resort and Squaw Valley USA will join forces! The mountains announced today that they will combine operations to a single ownership - which means that you will be able to ski and ride both mountains with one season pass or lift ticket. 

With access to more than 6,000 acres, eight mountain peaks, 44 lifts, and more than 270 trails on some of the country’s most renowned terrain, you will be our celebrated guests at the largest amount of terrain accessible on one ticket in the United States. 

As passionate, tenured guests at Alpine Meadows, your interests and mountain experiences are and will always be our top priorities. Although the accessible terrain and fantastic amenities will increase as a result of the new partnership, the individual character of each mountain will remain the same. It is the unmistakable ambiance, atmosphere, and guests’ unwavering connection to a mountain that help make every ski resort special and unique – and truly something to be cherished. Moving forward in this fantastic new partnership, both mountains are committed to preserving each mountain’s individual atmosphere while offering you the absolute best of the country’s mountains, amenities, guest service, and value. We hope you are as excited as we are about the new consolidation between Alpine Meadows and Squaw Valley

Alpine Meadows’ sister resort, Homewood Mountain Resort, will continue to be owned and operated by JMA, and will not be affected by the new partnership between Alpine and Squaw. Guests of Homewood, as well as Homewood’s West Shore Café & Inn, can look forward to another fantastic winter skiing, snowboarding, and lakefront dining and lodging. 

As Alpine and Squaw work diligently toward finalizing the consolidation in late October or early November, we understand that you may have some questions. We will share any new information with you as it becomes available, and in the interim, please take a moment to review the attached news release, which will answer some of your questions. As well, please feel free to send us an email at info@skialpine.com or call us directly at 530.583.4232. We’ll do our best to offer any help with your questions and thoughts. 

Best regards, 

Todd Chapman
President, CEO			
JMA Ventures, LLC			

Art Chapman
Chairman
JMA Ventures, LLC


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## Edd (Sep 27, 2011)

Been hearing about this for awhile but that is huge news.  F***, I wish I lived in Tahoe!


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## Philpug (Sep 28, 2011)

Edd said:


> Been hearing about this for awhile but that is huge news.  F***, I wish I lived in Tahoe!



Oh, yeah.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 5, 2011)

So it looks like Squaw is having a hard time opening as well...only Red Dog is open:  http://unofficialnetworks.com/fast-firm-fun-squaw-valley-weekend-56147/

And it looks like AM and Squaw are considering connecting the two via BC access (NOT through Whitewolf).  Read more here:  http://unofficialnetworks.com/squaw-lauches-study-backcountry-access-squaw-alpine-55975/


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## thetrailboss (Dec 6, 2011)

And Unofficial Networks, citing Huffington Post, says that California and Nevada are making a joint bid for another Tahoe Olympics:  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2022-olympics-lake-tahoe-nevada-agrees-california-bid-56833/

I wonder if they would use Squaw again?


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## Smellytele (Dec 6, 2011)

Okay I have 10 years to save for it


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## Philpug (Dec 7, 2011)

Northstar is skiing quite well, conditions are in mid season form...for the east. This time of year, I will take it.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 8, 2011)

As discussed in this thread and on Unofficial Networks, Squaw is releasing *a new trail map* with actual trail names and new items marked.  It created a stir.  I just looked at it and I really don't see anything ground shattering.  If anything it is worse than the previous versions, especially with the lack of detail in some areas (like Shirley Lake).


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## thetrailboss (Dec 13, 2011)

The latest from Unofficial Networks:  *Squaw in talks with White Wolf to merge and allow for direct connection to Alpine Meadows.*  They also provide details about the legal fight that took place...and in which it was determined that White Wolf/Caldwell actually owned the upper third of KT-22 and Olympic Lady and not Squaw!  :lol:

Caldwell says that he has been touring areas on KSL's dime to get ideas for developing White Wolf.  Interesting......


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## jerryg (Dec 14, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> And Unofficial Networks, citing Huffington Post, says that California and Nevada are making a joint bid for another Tahoe Olympics:
> 
> http://unofficialnetworks.com/2022-olympics-lake-tahoe-nevada-agrees-california-bid-56833/
> 
> I wonder if they would use Squaw again?



The Reno-Tahoe idea has been floated for several years and a few years ago they began to get backers and began formulating a plan. Squaw would be one of the resorts used, as would Norhtstar and Heavenly. 
There are some problems with the bid. The biggest is getting from Reno to the basin. The roads are narrow and windy and not ready for the type of traffic that the games would generate. While the problem can be solves, environmentalists are not happy about 4 lane highways. 
The other major problem is a venue for the men's downhill. Squaw's Olympic course is no longer acceptable as it doesn't have the vertical needed per FIS regulations. Heavenly also used to host WC downhills, (And is forth in all-time WC visits up to 1986) but when it did, the course extended down towards the Carson Valley in Nevada. This included a lift that ran from the base of the end of the course and connected to the Stagecoach pod. The 10-year plan for the resort does call for bring the Wells Fargo lift pod back, which would add vertical to that part of the mountain and could possibly be used for such a course. The main reason this left and accompanied trails were abandoned was because they are southeast facing, didn't have snowmaking, and extended before the magical 7000 dependable snowline for that part of the resort. Once the WC stopped coming to the resort, the area was no longer feasible, but if you've got skins and are feeling adventurous, it's cool to ski down to the old lift and trail pod and skin back up. You can also ski another thousand vertical feet from there, to the valley floor, but there has to be a lot of snow and is highly unadvised without someone who really knows the area.


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## Philpug (Dec 14, 2011)

Ain't happening. The area cannot handle the traffic. There would be more press for a 202X Olympics than they're were at the last Olympics here.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 14, 2011)

Will the Keep Tahoe Blue organization even consider allowing any needed development?


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## jerryg (Dec 14, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Will the Keep Tahoe Blue organization even consider allowing any needed development?



That depends on what impact any construction would have on the lake itself. Pollution concern has been raised, but the biggest gripe I've heard has to do with upgrading the roads. Many people don't want highways going to north and south lake and without them, it's not a feasible plan.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 17, 2011)

JMA got out of AM at the right time.  *Their massive, $500 million expansion at Homewood has received final approval.*  If you are in Tahoe, ski it this season before it gets the massive makeover that is long overdue for some of the resort.  



> BREAKING NEWS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jerryg (Dec 18, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> JMA got out of AM at the right time.  *Their massive, $500 million expansion at Homewood has received final approval.*  If you are in Tahoe, ski it this season before it gets the massive makeover that is long overdue for some of the resort.



The Homewood plans have been in the basin news for a long time and from when I've read, JMA has always seen Homewood as a four season destination investment more than a resort that they wanted to pour a ton of ski-related money into. One of Homewood;s two base areas is literally across the street from the lake and JMA is hedging summer tourism as it is only about 10 minutes from King's Beach/Tahoe City. What they could get from waterfront access is probably a big question, but I would guess they have some plan given the expansion amount. Summer is king in Tahoe. It's the busiest time from hotels, at least on the south shore and given Homewood's semi-limited ski-related expansion potential, faster lifts, building replacements, and some glam are the way to make money. It's a neat place to ski and some great views, but the terrain is rather limited, as is the vert, and the infrastructure is beat.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah...things are really sucking for Squaw so far this season.  They are limping with two runs open off of Snow King (Red Dog and Squaw Creek chairs).  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/squaw-bad-nbc-nightly-news-covered-bad-62177/

http://unofficialnetworks.com/rain-drops-drizzling-snow-squaw-valley-conditions-update-122811-62023/


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## Edd (Dec 29, 2011)

Gawd, that's just not right.


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## snoseek (Dec 29, 2011)

Heavenly and Northstar are taking this quite a bit better than Squaw. Stictly groomer skiing all around but multiple options and pods are skiing ok thanks to a East Coast like snowmaking system. Either way its a complete utter shitstorm this week with all the vacationers and all. I've been spending more time hiking than skiing and will patiently wait for winter to materialize. Storms that slam in off the pacific can change the entire direction of the season in just a few days, If you have a vacation booked here in the next few weeks then I feel for you.


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## jerryg (Dec 30, 2011)

snoseek said:


> Heavenly and Northstar are taking this quite a bit better than Squaw. Stictly groomer skiing all around but multiple options and pods are skiing ok thanks to a East Coast like snowmaking system. Either way its a complete utter shitstorm this week with all the vacationers and all. I've been spending more time hiking than skiing and will patiently wait for winter to materialize. Storms that slam in off the pacific can change the entire direction of the season in just a few days, If you have a vacation booked here in the next few weeks then I feel for you.



While I don't arrive till Jan 28th, I may be bringing some hiking shoes and sadly no skins...


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## thetrailboss (Apr 16, 2012)

So some news from Unofficial.  Apparently the link between Squaw and Alpine Meadows is ready to go, but they have postponed the opening until tomorrow.  That was quick.  I guess White Wolf was able to agree to the deal pretty quickly:  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/squawalpine-connect-postponed-91049/

http://unofficialnetworks.com/squawalpine-connect-open-time-tomorrow-90895/

And apparently, despite what Andy Wirth was saying earlier about this not being "that bad of a season," Unofficial is saying that the Granite Chief replacement lift is on hold because of lack of money.  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/squaw...ment-high-camp-links-chairlifts-summer-90918/


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## thetrailboss (Apr 19, 2012)

The other big news is that Squaw is going to improve their snowmaking....whatever that means.  As folks on UN were asking, does this mean more terrain covered? I hope so because their snowmaking capabilities are really pathetic.  I loved Squaw, but HATED the Mountain Run from Gold Coast to the base.


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## thetrailboss (May 8, 2012)

Update from Unofficial....

Looks like KSL is still talking with White Wolf about merging and things are "on track."  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/squaw...argest-ski-resort-update-troy-caldwell-95587/


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## thetrailboss (May 8, 2012)

And Unofficial also has a trailer for the Squaw Valley Documentary Movie that looks pretty interesting...

http://unofficialnetworks.com/love-squaw-watch-squawthe-movie-95676/

Another clip:


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## thetrailboss (May 14, 2012)

Update:  Squaw has offered Troy Caldwell *$45 million* for White Wolf.  

Giddy up.  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/npr-s...caldwell-offered-45-million-white-wolf-96818/


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## billski (Jun 25, 2012)

*Squaw Valley to build indoor water park expected dwarf Lake Tahoe*

*25 May 2012*


Maybe you haven’t heard…KSL has taken on the task of saving Lake Tahoe.  The private equity firm is in a bidding war to purchase Great Wolf  Resorts, a colossal, super-sized water park company. The purchase of  Great Wolf will allow KSL to design and build the 82 thousand sq. ft.  water park that was recently unveiled at a Squaw Valley  homeowner’s  meeting.
...
Squaw Valley has extensive experience with crowd control in lift lines so  we’re assured orderly lines to the exhilarating adventure slides. Every  indoor convert will be allowed their shot of indoor fun in the sun,  slipping and sliding and heading back around for their next turn of  unharnessed merriment in the cascading waters of Squaw Valley.

Source

...
We’ve already seen vast improvements, the tearing down of the old  deserving buildings and the rise of new ones. The plan is more than a  face lift, it is a plan to become a world class destination ski resort  and it is just over the proverbial horizon. Squaw Valley is going to  have the best lift service, state of the art snow making and grooming.  Ski instructors are finally going to make the money they deserve


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## bobbutts (Jun 26, 2012)

There's so much sarcasm and exaggeration in that blog post it's hard to figure out what he's saying besides he hates development and water parks.


> The massive water park structure would be built in the parking lot of Squaw Valley USA and boasts a gazillion gallons of cascading water every nano-second.​




​


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## thetrailboss (Jun 26, 2012)

bobbutts said:


> There's so much sarcasm and exaggeration in that blog post it's hard to figure out what he's saying besides he hates development and water parks.
> 
> 
> [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]



+ 1.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 10, 2012)

Looks like the next replacement will be for Red Dog, at least according to Unofficial:  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/squaw-considers-replacing-red-dog-high-speed-pack-106423/

I imagine that they are in the beginning stages and that this will take some time to get fully permitted.


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## thetrailboss (May 17, 2014)

Ka-bump.  dlague found this great article.

http://m.powdermag.com/digital-features/crossroads-squaw-valley/


i typed with my i thumbs using AlpineZone[/QUOTE]


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## thetrailboss (Apr 8, 2015)

Bump

Three bad seasons must be hurting Squaw.  Any reports?  

Just saw this....

Wow.  Squaw Valley must be really doing badly.  They are selling full season passes for $349.  

http://www.skinet.com/ski/galleries/2015-16-season-passes?i=55600654&s=5



> Tahoe Superpass Bronze
> 
> Unlimited days at Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows.
> Limited quantity at $349; regularly $409.
> www.squawalpine.com


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## St. Bear (Apr 9, 2015)

This isn't the exact picture I saw yesterday, but it gets the point across. Can you say powder starved? 

" Welcome to extraordinary @squawalpine http://t.co/Jj0aZkXJXj"


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## Smellytele (Apr 9, 2015)

Glad I got there in 2009. While it wasn't great that year(at least when I was there) when I went it has been more bare most years since then.


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## mriceyman (Apr 9, 2015)

i was there 2 years ago in early march when no fresh had fallen for 2 months. Still had 100% open due to a huge december. That ridge that sat over them all winter killed them again for any snow chances. It has to change one of these years. They are well overdue for a 400" season


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2015)

St. Bear said:


> This isn't the exact picture I saw yesterday, but it gets the point across. Can you say powder starved?
> 
> " Welcome to extraordinary @squawalpine http://t.co/Jj0aZkXJXj"



Wow.  Holy $hit.  Looks like Siberia HS6.


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## snoseek (Apr 9, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> i was there 2 years ago in early march when no fresh had fallen for 2 months. Still had 100% open due to a huge december. That ridge that sat over them all winter killed them again for any snow chances. It has to change one of these years. They are well overdue for a 400" season
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




Yep, It all runs in cycles and we are year four into a drought. This one hurt extra bad because it came with substantial warmth. That season 2 years ago was frustrating but snow preserved well due to cold air.

It will return some year, maybe not next year but eventually. For every year like the last four there's a big year and this will all be a bad memory. I've seen little pieces of how it can dump (mar 12, dec 13, april fools last year). I want more of that please.


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## snoseek (Apr 9, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Wow.  Holy $hit.  Looks like Siberia HS6.


I love squaw, I really do. Some of the very best ski terrain on the planet but this is why I don't call squaw home.

I like it on a sunny Tuesday in a corn cycle.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2015)

snoseek said:


> I love squaw, I really do. Some of the very best ski terrain on the planet but this is why I don't call squaw home.
> 
> I like it on a sunny Tuesday in a corn cycle.



You mean crowds?  $349 passes will do that.


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## snoseek (Apr 9, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> You mean crowds?  $349 passes will do that.




I'm pretty sure its always been insane...even with 1k+ passes. 349 pass is not good Saturdays and tons of blackout dates. There really isn't an expensive pass around the basin...but yes, squaw/alpine should definitely get more money.

We had a substantial crowd yesterday as well, I never waited over ten minutes and only 3 main lifts open but compared to all the days with 25 cars in the parking lot (past 3 weeks) it was packed!


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2015)

snoseek said:


> I'm pretty sure its always been insane...even with 1k+ passes. 349 pass is not good Saturdays and tons of blackout dates. There really isn't an expensive pass around the basin...but yes, squaw/alpine should definitely get more money.
> 
> We had a substantial crowd yesterday as well, I never waited over ten minutes and only 3 main lifts open but compared to all the days with 25 cars in the parking lot (past 3 weeks) it was packed!



I think that $349 pass I mentioned doesn't have blackouts.....maybe it does and Ski.net did not do their homework.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 9, 2015)

The $349 bronze pass has 29 BO dates including all Saturdays.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> The $349 bronze pass has 29 BO dates including all Saturdays.



Interesting.   Ski.net said "full access".  Guess not!


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## machski (Apr 9, 2015)

Ski.net also had bad info on the New England Pass as well.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> http://squawalpine.com/gondola?utm_...b+announce+04+13+15&utm_campaign=b+to+b+14+15



News


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## Smellytele (Apr 13, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> News



The came to agreement with Troy Caldwell (White Wolf)


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## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> The came to agreement with Troy Caldwell (White Wolf)



Interesting.  So is Troy a very rich man now?  Will he continue to pursue his area or is it done?


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## mbedle (Apr 13, 2015)

Just reading up on this and during a May 2014 interview he seems to indicate that the White Wolf resort will be moving forward even with the connect. Apparently he is going to lease the land for the interconnect. Kind of a funny story that reminds me of the PCMR mess up. Apparently, SP approached Squaw valley after Caldwell approach SP to purchase the land. Someone in the Squaw Valley's group turned down an offer to purchase the land and they went back to Caldwell and sold him the 450 acres. The response from Squaw was why purchase a square mile of land when we lease the 75 acres from you already for dirt cheap. For 350K, Caldwell walked into a gold mine. Hats off to him.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2015)

Here's the video:  

http://squawalpine.com/gondola?utm_...541337514&spReportId=NTQxMzM3NTE0S0#section_1

Interesting that they got Wayne Poulsen's son to speak about it.  A while back I posted a trailer of the Squaw Valley historical movie that was being made and you immediately got the sense that the Poulsen Family was still quite bitter about Cushing pushing them out of the area.  

At 1:22 of this video Troy comments about how his relationship with SV was "shaky".  That is a mild way of putting it.  SV sued him multiple times I believe after he became their landlord for part of KT-22.  :lol:

As to the proposal, that route sucks.  I don't like how it cuts across KT-22.  I think this is going to turn into Tahoe's Ski Link and really piss a lot of people off.


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## mbedle (Apr 13, 2015)

Yeah - I would say that Troy and Cushing did not have a good relationship. They sue him a couple of times and tried to screw Troy when they had a lift exchange deal for the land under the K-22 lift. 

Not sure why they chose to run it up along the entire north face of K-22. Seems it would have been better to replace the K-22 lift and run it down to the lake area from there. Its not clear if the angled sections are going to be unloading and loading areas. I'm guessing they are, just not sure. 

Good interview with Troy in May 2014 is here:

http://snowbrains.com/will-squaw-alpine-connect-exclusive-troy-caldwell-video-interview/


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