# AMC sues State for Snowmobile Trail Construction



## Charlie Schuessler (Nov 24, 2004)

The Concord Monitor is reporting that The Appalachian Mountain Club is suing two state agencies to temporarily stop construction of a snowmobile trail that would surround its new $9 million education center in Crawford Notch.....

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041124/REPOSITORY/411240307/1031


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## riverc0il (Nov 25, 2004)

:blink:  :angry:  :evil:    :roll: 

first of all, i really dislike hearing snowmobiles when i am out enjoy the mountains during the winter.  but they have every much a right to enjoy the multi-use WMNF as i do, so long as they do not operate in a protected wilderness area.  that said, this is a disgusting move by the AMC who says in their about statement that they are all about people enjoying and having recreational  opporuunities from the outdoors.  so long as the trails are constructed in the most ecologically safe manner, what difference are snowmobiling trails than the skiing and hiking trails already built and maintained on the mountains?  what's really going on here is that the AMC doesn't want their motel disturbed in any way, especially after they paid so much money for it.  since there is a fully functional motel right there now, it actually seems like the perfect placement for a snowmobile network!  funny that the AMC doesn't see this as a chance to increase winter revenue?!?!  that the AMC should be able to make use of that land for high priced lodging only is rediculous.
/rant


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## SilentCal (Nov 26, 2004)

I kinda find it humerous where it states the the AMC's reputation would be ruined due to this measure going through.   Like they need anyone's help :blink:    To me it seems like they want to be the only entity that can operate in the multi-use Whites.   Sorry can't have it all, you need to share.


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## cantdog (Nov 26, 2004)

_first of all, i really dislike hearing snowmobiles when i am out enjoy the mountains during the winter. but they have every much a right to enjoy the multi-use WMNF as i do, so long as they do not operate in a protected wilderness area_

I agree with rivercOil.

_Sorry can't have it all, you need to share._

I also agree with Silent Cal.


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## MtnMagic (Nov 26, 2004)

I agree with cd, charlie, cal, and ro.

I'm for hiking in the remote whites, don't wanna hear the sound of machines!
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More wilderness, less roads!!


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## Caleb (Nov 28, 2004)

It seems to me that AMCs response is total NIMBY. For want of a more pro-active stance on land use restrictions, it's almost poetic they'll now suffer the fate of 2-strokers interrupting their morning chicken and pig. Gentlemen, Start Your Engines!


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## Mike P. (Nov 29, 2004)

I suspect the true goal of the suit is to gain some say into where the trails go.  I have not seen the proposed snowmobile location but the area west of the Notch between Highland Center & Zealand has some trails.  It's ahred in winter to go by Fosters in Twin Mountain & not see sleds.  That is part of the walk into Garfield.

When I'm close by the road, I don't mind even mnd the noise, my first winter peak was walking up the road to the Mt. Greylock summit, a hot bed for X-C skies & sleds.  The smell of 2 stroke exhaust hanging in the air is troublesome but more & more sleds are becoming four stroke models.  I don't want to hear sleds when I'm on the Bonds,  high on Garfield or the Twins or Presidentials,  if they are competing noise wise with logging trucks through the notch & are within  1/4 mile or less of the road, it would be tough to argue based on noise.

Besides they may want to buy some drinks in the HC bar though they seem to be more thrifty consumers of alcohol, afterall you can buy a 30 pack of  Busch, Pabst or Milwauke's Best for about the same price as a couple of mirco-brew pints in a bar.  (Okay that might have been a low shot)


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## Mike P. (Nov 29, 2004)

Two points of minor interest:  

1) a similar thread was on the AMC board & I think deleted, calling one group elitist & the other  &^# polluters/or drunks like I did  is not productive.  One article showed that in fact the AMC is trying to have some say in where the trail will go since the Base Road will now be plowed & not available.

2.) In the past few years when the cog did winter maintainence on the trains, the plowed the Mt. Clinton Road & with a pile of snow in front of the gate, it was possible although not officially available to hike Eisenhower & Monroe Edmands.  This might be the easiest trail to treeline in the Presidentials with only the C-Path offering comparison.  It will be considerable harder to get to Ike if the road is used as the snowmobile alternate which is very likely.  What AMC is looking to change is how & where it accessess (sic?) the road, IMO further west of HC where 302 is straight & sightlines better would make sense & then come up near the lot for C-path at the beginning of the Mt. Clinton Road seems better.

With car spotting it will be easier to do Monroe & South or even Washington & the Southern Presidentials along with a western mid-point for escape when trying a full traverse than before.  Once south of Edmands Col between Jefferson & Adams previously you either descended Sphinx in the Great Gulf, (slabs?)  Caps or Jewell & hope someone is at the train or sleding or go around Washington cone to Lions Head.  

On the other hand, Monroe, a Southern Traverse & the others require more commitment & preparation than going up the Edmands PathEdmands, Edmands & or the C-Path IMO are two trails (along with Liberty, Moriah & Jackson summits) you could have brought a relative winter newcomer - providing you heeded the weather - & only Jackson is as easy or easier.

The changes should make Eisenhower harder but not brutal & Monroe more accessible which while in some aspects good, Monroe will likely get more rescue press than it did before.


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## MtnMagic (Nov 29, 2004)

Yep. After building the Ritz Crawford and spending 10+ million on an originally budgeted 7 mil project, heck why should "the club" be forced to listen to the snowmobilers. The paying guests (at up to $125 per night) just might not like that. How about that.

Check out the LLBean (free rental gear for AMC members) basement room and the prices for food and lodging. Such a deal. If you haven't been there its a must check it out. Also visit the Brad Washburn Building!

I hiked Ike last week. It was most definitely full winter conditions above tree line.  Still love it. One of my most favorite hikes. Super views and one I'll repeat several times each year.
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Be prepared for the worse!


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## Max (Dec 2, 2004)

Seems pretty hypocritical that the AMC itself advertises that one of the ways to get to their own cabins at Little Lyford Pond Camps in Maine is via snowmobile:

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lyford/index.cfm     and scroll down to "What To Expect"


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## Mike P. (Dec 2, 2004)

Perhaps, but IMO the guest at Lyford are looking for a different experience than thsoe at the Highland Center (insert favorite nickname here, like the Ritz Crawford, etc.)   They won't see 2000 sleds in a week at Lyford either which is what the estimate is for the NH trail.

I don't think the goal of the suit is to ban sleds but to have some say on where the trail goes, from what I've read, they believe they & others should have had some say during the planning phase of the trail as far as where it should have been located.  

IMO, it might actually make some sense to have a spur trail to Highland Center, some snowmobiliers may be the type of client AMC is trying to cater.  I think if some people have limited mobility due to leg issues, including prosthetics (Some people still get out walking) might find snowmobiles are the best way for them to enjoy winter activities.  That should not prohibit them from staying at or visiting the HC.   

On the other hand a Spur Trail might be more troubling to the establishments in Twin Mountain as the spur would really cater to people looking for services that the businesses in Twin Mountain do provide (lodging, food, beverages)

They are going to have to move on it pretty quick I would think as sledding is a big business up north, probably generating more income for locals than winter hiking, (in winter I'd guess 2nd to ski tourism) as many only day trip & some camp out.  Sledders can camp out (I have a friend in ME that uses sleds to go to various lakes for ice fishing & they stay at a cabin near one of the lakes) but I am inclined to think few do snowmobile-pack.


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## Charlie Schuessler (Dec 17, 2004)

The Concord Monitor is reporting that the Appalachian Mountain Club's $9 million education center in Crawford Notch will be abuzz with the sound of snowmobiles this winter. 

Yesterday, a Merrimack County Superior Court judge denied the organization's request to temporarily stop construction of the state's snowmobile trail, which will encircle the AMC's center. But, he said, because it's still unclear who owns the railroad corridor where the trail is being built, a trial for a permanent injunction will be held.....

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/.../REPOSITORY/412160345&SearchID=73193258652491

Threaten with a lawsuit, and where the Judge sets the parameters, it is amazing that two parties can really cooperate and coxist....


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