# Demo Daze Suggestions - Hard Snow



## Skimaine (Dec 8, 2011)

Planning on hitting SL Demo days this week-end.  I am looking for a hard snow ski to complement Volkl Bridges (soft snow and mixed).  Currently riding nearly used up Volkl AC 30's for firm days.  Last year I skied the Bridges last year about 2 out of 3 days.   I ski anything groomed and ungroomed that is not super steep and  no trees.  Here is my list - I will not get ride them all:

Volkl RTM 84
Volkl Mantra
Blizzard Magnum 8.1 TI
Rossi Avenger 82 TI
Solomon Enduro XT800
K2 Aftershock
K2 Charge
Rossi Experience 88

Thoughts?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 8, 2011)

As a fellow Volkl owner, I'd say try to the Volkl models.  The RTM 84 sounds good, but it is rockered.  



> *RTM 84*
> 
> Winner of every major magazine award in this season's buyer's guides,  the innovative RTM 84 is designed for good skiers who want smooth  carving on the front side of the mountain combined with uncanny  maneuverability in soft snow.  Völkl's proprietary full rocker  technology gives the skier smooth, direct turn initiation, and a playful  overall feel. Its new construction even yields a 15% weight savings  compared to its predecessor, the AC50


I have the Tiger Shark Powerswitch 12, and the Grizzly skis very similar actually, but it is not in your list. 

The Mantra may do the job too:



> *Mantra*
> 
> The Mantra is the pinnacle product for the skier who wants to ski the  deep stuff, yet still have a solid, all-mountain feel on the front of  the mountain. Still unparalleled in the market, it's the go-to ski for  those who want a powder ski that is versatile enough to ski hard on  groomed terrain as well.


Personally I'd avoid the K2's.  In my experience they are softer skis.  

And the Rossi Avenger sounds like it is perfect for what you want:  



> The Avenger is a favorite among the skiers and ski shops who prefer  performance skiing on hard snow and groomed runs. This ski delivers the  most versatile, high-performance on-trail ski that Rossignol has to  offer. With medium waist widths, deep sidecuts, Power Turn on-trail  camber and constructions that come directly from the race skis. This ski was designed for on-trail groomed run fans who want more  classic high performance including carved turn prowess combined with  precision and stability.


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## Edd (Dec 8, 2011)

I've only skied the Mantra from that list but if you're trying to compliment the Bridges, the skis I'd focus on would be the RTM, Avenger, and Magnum 8.1.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 8, 2011)

Try some Fischer Progressor's too.


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## Skimaine (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. The RTM, Blizzard and Avenger are at the top of my list. I am interested to see how the RTM's compare to last years AC50's.  I will put the progressors on the list as well. The Blizzard has develop a strong following of former Volkl owners.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 8, 2011)

Skimaine said:


> The Blizzard has develop a strong following of former Volkl owners.



There is very good reason for this.  Volkl was sold to the K2 group around 3 years ago, from the ownership of Tecnica.  After the sale the Tecnica group kept the Volkl engineers/designers who created the AC line of skis and put them to work for Blizzard, and they created the Mag line.  Very similar in its feel to the AC.


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## Rushski (Dec 9, 2011)

Your list is pretty solid for what to try for a hard-snow ski.  Have demo'ed many of them in the past year and a half.  Guess it truly deopends if you want a true carver for firmer conditions only OR an all-mountain ski...

K2s you mentioned are fun to ski and are pretty versatile as they can handle a little depth w/their rocker.  Turn well, but are a touch soft as another mentioned.  And have seen demos with tip protector issues - in both years.

Give Fichers a try as they've made some good skis over the past few.

Nordicas make very good frontside skis as well.  Fire Arrows are a blast, especially in firm conditions where they shine.

The Blizzard G-Force series has been better in the carving vane Vs. the Magnum series I've tested.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 9, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Try some Fischer Progressor's too.



or Motive 84

I purchased them for hard snow performance.  Jury is still out, but my 1st impressions are pretty positive.


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## bigbog (Dec 9, 2011)

Yeah Skimaine...hoping to make it on Sunday.  Would like to see Fischer bringing along a Motive(exactly DHS)...of any width, among other brands....Rossi Experience 83, Blizz Mag 7.6, and a few of the wider mid-fats...etc.
Have a hunch the place is going to be a friggin zoo..;-) 
  Rushski, thanks for mentioning Nordica...definitely some skis I've love to try...especially Hell&Back and Burner ...wishing for more snow..;-)


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## billski (Dec 9, 2011)

Hawkshot99 said:


> There is very good reason for this.  Volkl was sold to the K2 group around 3 years ago, from the ownership of Tecnica.  After the sale the Tecnica group kept the Volkl engineers/designers who created the AC line of skis and put them to work for Blizzard, and they created the Mag line.  Very similar in its feel to the AC.



I had no idea, seriously.  I've sworn by Volkl's for the last decade.  I hope they don't screw it up the way GM messed up Saab.


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## buellski (Dec 9, 2011)

billski said:


> I had no idea, seriously.  I've sworn by Volkl's for the last decade.  I hope they don't screw it up the way GM messed up Saab.



And they're both part of http://www.jarden.com/ :-o


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## Black Phantom (Dec 9, 2011)

You will get killed on Grizzly's. 

Blizzard makes premium skis.


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## billski (Dec 9, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> You will get killed on Grizzly's.
> 
> Blizzard makes premium skis.



WHAT are  you smokin' today BF?  You're really on a roll.  Go for it!


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## Rambo (Dec 9, 2011)

I found 2 Volkl models to kick butt on all eastern conds... (except big hard moguls).. the RTM 84 and the VOLKL KENDO. When demoing the KENDO it seemed so much quicker edge to edge and much more nimble and versatile than the Mantra. I think the Kendo is refered to as the Mantra's little brother - but in my opinion it runs circles around the Mantra.


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## Skimaine (Dec 9, 2011)

Rambo said:


> I found 2 Volkl models to kick butt on all eastern conds... (except big hard moguls).. the RTM 84 and the VOLKL KENDO. When demoing the KENDO it seemed so much quicker edge to edge and much more nimble and versatile than the Mantra. I think the Kendo is refered to as the Mantra's little brother - but in my opinion it runs circles around the Mantra.



I tried the Kendo's last year and your description fits my experience.  A ton of fun, very nimble and very quick edge to edge.  I also l liked the AC50's.  Almost anything Volkl seems to hook-up for me so I am really looking forward to trying RTM.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 9, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> You will get killed on Grizzly's.
> 
> Blizzard makes premium skis.



Where did that come from?  

I demoed the 2009 models at Alta last season.  Overall, a nice west ski for front side, because it skied just like my Tigersharks.  But the problem is that they are just like fatter Tigersharks...i.e. they are heavy with the system binding and expensive.  Not a good choice for powder IMHO.  May be a bit fat for most on piste skiing east coast, but worth a try...coming from someone who has skied them.


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## Black Phantom (Dec 9, 2011)

billski said:


> WHAT are  you smokin' today BF?  You're really on a roll.  Go for it!



This fella is coming of a pair of *AC3's*, I presume?

That is a lot of ski for someone to jump into, even for East coast type pow days. 

IMO, that is the epitome of a big mountain, all around cruiser, for a guy that really knows how to finish his turns.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 9, 2011)

buellski said:


> And they're both part of http://www.jarden.com/ :-o



I see no mention of Blizzard on the Jarden websight, but do see K2, Volkl, and Line.


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## Skimaine (Dec 10, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> This fella is coming of a pair of *AC3's*, I presume?
> 
> That is a lot of ski for someone to jump into, even for East coast type pow days.
> 
> IMO, that is the epitome of a big mountain, all around cruiser, for a guy that really knows how to finish his turns.



I get it.  The Grizz is likely more ski than I am look for.  I am not a powerful/aggressive skier and probably would not be able to drive those skis.  I have progressed beyond the AC3's but still like some forgiveness in the ski.  The AC50s demoed well for me last year. I am thinking the RTM 84's are the in the sweet spot, but maybe the RTM80's are a better fit.  Report to follow.


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## Skimaine (Dec 12, 2011)

Here are my unscientific results (your mileage may vary):

Solomon Enduro XT800 (168’s) – The Enduro was a great ride.  It has some early rise and this allowed it to turn easily.  It also tracked smoothly on hard and soft snow.  It had very good grip on the hard snow.   It was responsive and moved edge to edge reasonable quickly.  I felt confident on this ski very quickly.  I am definitely considering this a replacement for the AC3’s.

Blizzard Magnum 7.6 IQ (170’s) – The Magnum’s provided outstanding grip on the hard snow.  The best of any of the 4 I demoed.  They have slight early rise but did not initiate turns as easily as the Enduro’s.  I had to “drive” them to get them to turn, but they responded well when driven.  The skies tracked well and fit my style (or lack thereof) very well.  Again, I felt confident on these skis very quickly. 

Rossi Avenger 82 TI (171’s) – The Avenger’s are “old school” -  No rocker, traditional camber.   Like the Magnum’s they liked to be driven and did not initiate turns as easily as the Enduro’s.   However, they were responsive when driven and had very good hard snow grip.  I found the Avenger’s did not track as well for me as did the Enduro or Magnum  – e.g., they did not stay together in the arc of the turn.  I suspect that a shorter version would have hooked up better for me (these were 171’s, but so were the Magnums).

Volkl RTM 80 (171’s) – I did not get a chance to try the RTM 84’s however I tried the RTM 80’s twice.  I skied them Saturday PM in less than ideal conditions and then gave them a second go Sunday morning just to be sure they had a fair shake.   I generally love all things Volkl, however, the RTM 80’s did not hook-up for me at all.  I could not get them to grip anything.   On almost every turn they felt like they were going to slide out from underneath me.  I even tried to clean-up some of my bad habits and tried a few other tricks (e.g., higher edge set) to get them to behave, but no such luck.   These skies inspired no confidence.    This is the exact opposite experience I have had with last year’s Volkl AC50.   Maybe I can find a good deal on a pair of last year’s AC models.


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## bigbog (Dec 12, 2011)

Skimaine said:


> .....Solomon Enduro XT800 (168’s) – The Enduro was a great ride.  It has some early rise and this allowed it to turn easily.  It also tracked smoothly on hard and soft snow.  It had very good grip on the hard snow.   It was responsive and moved edge to edge reasonable quickly.  I felt confident on this ski very quickly.  I am definitely considering this a replacement for the AC3’s........



Skimaine,
 Enduro sounds like the daily ski for me!... will demo..Nice TR.


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## Edd (Dec 12, 2011)

Very surprised to hear the verdict on the 80s. Interesting.


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## Skimaine (Dec 12, 2011)

Edd said:


> Very surprised to hear the verdict on the 80s. Interesting.



No one is more surprised than me!  I am a Volkl true believer, but I could not wait to get those RTM 80's off. I thought for sure the 80 or 84 would be the ski to replace the AC3's and compliment the Volkl Bridge I started skiing last year. I tried them twice because I could believe how miserable they were the first time. I may have better results with a softer or short ski in the RTM line.  I am certainly interested in hearing about others' experience. 

On a few chair lift rides there was discussion as to whether there is such a thing as a rockered ski that performs well on hard snow.  Time will tell.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 12, 2011)

Skimaine said:


> Here are my unscientific results (your mileage may vary):
> 
> Solomon Enduro XT800 (168’s) – The Enduro was a great ride.  It has some early rise and this allowed it to turn easily.  It also tracked smoothly on hard and soft snow.  It had very good grip on the hard snow.   It was responsive and moved edge to edge reasonable quickly.  I felt confident on this ski very quickly.  I am definitely considering this a replacement for the AC3’s.



I've got last years Enduro 177 (there was only one model then with a 84 waist) and I love it. Took them out today and they were great on the frozen cord this morning. They were nice last spring in the bumps and trees too.


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