# Vail suspending all ski operations immediately



## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/update-on-coronavirus-from-vail-resorts.htm

Starts tomorrow and runs through 3/22 as they re-evaluate changing conditions related to the virus

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## sull1102 (Mar 14, 2020)

Does everyone follow suit or does say Killington keep pushing on because well they're K


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## machski (Mar 14, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Does everyone follow suit or does say Killington keep pushing on because well they're K


Killington will do what they do until Powdr pulls the plug.

Boyne Mountain and Boyne Highlands in Michigan will be ending the winter season after the ski day on Sunday.  All resort services and lodgings will close Monday, all uests must check out and leave by 11am then.  No idea whether this will be pushed East and West within their resorts, no indication of such as of now by Loon/SR/SL.

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## andrec10 (Mar 14, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/update-on-coronavirus-from-vail-resorts.htm
> 
> Starts tomorrow and runs through 3/22 as they re-evaluate changing conditions related to the virus
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



So, are they open tomorrow?


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## Keelhauled (Mar 14, 2020)

You gotta think that Vail shutting their properties down will give cover to everyone else.


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## ss20 (Mar 14, 2020)

Well, that was a crazy 3 days.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

Rob Katz is so virtue signally' that I'm surprised Vail wasn't the first.


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## jg17 (Mar 14, 2020)

Alterra also shut down UFN:
https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2020/03/14/alterra-mountain-company-closure-announcement


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

andrec10 said:


> So, are they open tomorrow?


No

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## ss20 (Mar 14, 2020)

On Monday there'll be a single-digit number of operating resorts (if that) across the country.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 14, 2020)

Alterra just made the call... 


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## snoseek (Mar 14, 2020)

Well if cannon stays open I'm probably out for monday as I was assuming a typical slow monday and I really dont want to be around people. Mtb season now.


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## Zand (Mar 14, 2020)

Just Powdr and Boyne left for the corporates.


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## Kleetus (Mar 14, 2020)

There are rumors K is closing tomorrow end of the day....not that I believe K zone forums but...

Welp FML for not skiing today. Maybe I'll try and hit a local bump tomorrow or hit Gore even though it will be crusty just to close out the season....

So much for Snowbird and Alta in early April....


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## slatham (Mar 14, 2020)

Well you know what's coming now.....a major, season best dump.


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## njdiver85 (Mar 14, 2020)

Lots of skiers tonight at Stratton, Mount Snow, and Okemo probably wondering where to go on Sunday.  Guessing Magic and Killington are going to make some extra money tomorrow.


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## ss20 (Mar 14, 2020)

If Killington closes and are able to re-open in May after we fight this thing they'll have a record revenue May/June... can you even imagine the vibe?  It'd be the party of the century on Superstar.


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## Zand (Mar 14, 2020)

This will help them preserve Superstar...might be deeper in May than ever.


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## amf (Mar 14, 2020)

Put your climbing skins on - have the whole mountain to yourself!


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## njdiver85 (Mar 14, 2020)

amf said:


> Put your climbing skins on - have the whole mountain to yourself!



I wonder if the mountains will be kicking people off or turn a blind eye.  Normally, it's only a handful skinning outside of operating hours at Mount Snow, but presumably tomorrow there will be quite a crowd.


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## Pez (Mar 14, 2020)

I was going to have one more day at Bromley tomorrow but that might end up being a shit show if people all decide to go there.  Idk. Maybe I’m done. 


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## kingslug (Mar 14, 2020)

Good thing we got in 5 days..at PC..just landed in NY..
So much for tomorrow..was going to hit Hunter


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

amf said:


> Put your climbing skins on - have the whole mountain to yourself!


Do it now if that's your plan.  

I've been quite bullish on all ski areas shutting down in a hurry. 

I'm just as bullish about MAJOR federally mandated travel restrictions coming real soon.  

China has been relatively successful at containing the outbreak in their country because they took Draconian measures immediately to lock things down and minimize the movement of people.  Italy didn't react as quickly and they've got a real problem going on despite their late efforts. France, Germany, Spain and Israel are following suit to prevent what has happened in Italy from occurring in their countries.  

I would not be surprised at all if the U.S. has the same restrictions as Italy by the end of the upcoming week.  Likely the only thing that prevents that from happening is apositive reports of reductions in new cases.  Even that maybe unlikely.  We aren't testing a high volume of symptomatic people fast enough

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## Zermatt (Mar 14, 2020)

All colorado resorts closed by order


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> *I would not be surprised at all if the U.S. has the same restrictions as Italy by the end of the upcoming week*.



If you mean the entire nation shut down, no.

If you mean domestic travel restrictions, yes.

Domestic travel restrictions in the localized hotspot areas are definitely coming.  Trump said today that that "might" be something they'll do, which is a balloon floated to prepare the nation.  It's coming.


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## Edd (Mar 14, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Do it now if that's your plan.
> 
> I've been quite bullish on all ski areas shutting down in a hurry.
> 
> ...



Driving through town last night the restaurants were full. Tonight, less so. My feeling is that it’s too late. 

I work at a pharmaceutical manufacturer that has no intention of closing. Doing so for a month means losing tens of millions. Consequently there’re more rules by the day. One example being that all employees maintain 6 feet of distance between each other. These things would have been more helpful some time ago.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

Edd said:


> *I work at a pharmaceutical manufacturer that has no intention of closing. Doing so for a month means losing tens of millions.* Consequently there’re more rules by the day. One example being that all employees maintain 6 feet of distance between each other. These things would have been more helpful some time ago.



It's not all about money.  Doing so would have catastrophic results unless by "pharmaceutical manufacturer" you really work for a company that makes Vitamin-C tablets.   I also work for a, "pharmaceutical manufacturer", and if we closed for a very long time there would be real-world problems for real-world patients.


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## skimagic (Mar 14, 2020)

Pez said:


> I was going to have one more day at Bromley tomorrow but that might end up being a shit show if people all decide to go there.  Idk. Maybe I’m done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Don't head to Windham , its now restricted to pass holders and prepaids.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's not all about money.  Doing so would have catastrophic results unless by "pharmaceutical manufacturer" you really work for a company that makes Vitamin-C tablets.   I also work for a, "pharmaceutical manufacturer", and if we closed for a very long time there would be real-world problems for real-world patients.



Why would you even question whether Edd works for a "real" pharmaceutical company like you do?

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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

Edd said:


> Driving through town last night the restaurants were full. Tonight, less so.
> 
> .



Same observation.  I stopped into JBI for takeout for the wife and I tonight.  I love many of our eateries, but his food would be what I'd miss the most of all if any  restaurants were to close in town. Gave Johnny an envelope of cash to distribute to his staff.  Hospitality workers are going to be so screwed for the foreseeable future.  I'm quite sensitive to that having spent so many years in the industry.



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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> *Why* would you even question whether Edd works for a "real" pharmaceutical company like you do?



Because I'm genuinely surprised that someone who works for a pharma company could maintain that they could shut down for a long period of time without having serious medical consequences to actual human patients.   I mean, I guess he might work for a pharma giant in something like Accounts Receivable where he has no interaction with the medical side, but it was a very strange comment.  That's why.   Put another way, we dont stockpile drugs for a zombie apocalypse.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

Yesterday my pizza guy (first name basis, it's New Jersey) said his business is down about 20% to 25% this week.  I imagine it will only get worse.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2020)

machski said:


> Killington will do what they do until Powdr pulls the plug.
> 
> Boyne Mountain and Boyne Highlands in Michigan will be ending the winter season after the ski day on Sunday.  All resort services and lodgings will close Monday, all uests must check out and leave by 11am then.  No idea whether this will be pushed East and West within their resorts, no indication of such as of now by Loon/SR/SL.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Brighton, Utah remains open...for now


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2020)

Kleetus said:


> There are rumors K is closing tomorrow end of the day....not that I believe K zone forums but...
> 
> Welp FML for not skiing today. Maybe I'll try and hit a local bump tomorrow or hit Gore even though it will be crusty just to close out the season....
> 
> So much for Snowbird and Alta in early April....



Alta/Snowbird still open....for now 

Edit: Alta closed effective immediately 




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## Orca (Mar 14, 2020)

Cynical money grab posing as virtue on the part of Vail and Alterra. I know you oh-so-easy-manipulated apologist will object. Nothing to say but that you are fools.


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## JimG. (Mar 14, 2020)

Wow dude you've got to get over the bitterness.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Wow dude you've got to get over the bitterness.



I kind of think he's right though.   

Close the cafeterias and bars. Shut-down gondis (which most resorts dont have).  
Run ski ops as normal; it's an outdoor activity.

I'll be doing a lot more hiking & trout fishing over the next few months than I normally do.  Not a high-risk COVID19 environment.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I kind of think he's right though.
> 
> Close the cafeterias and bars. Shut-down gondis (which most resorts dont have).  Run ski ops as normal; it's an outdoor activity.



^^


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## ScottySkis (Mar 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I kind of think he's right though.
> 
> Close the cafeterias and bars. Shut-down gondis (which most resorts dont have).
> Run ski ops as normal; it's an outdoor activity.
> ...



I hearing. A lot of employees of the resorts where not happy with situations


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Because I'm genuinely surprised that someone who works for a pharma company could maintain that they could shut down for a long period of time without having serious medical consequences to actual human patients.   I mean, I guess he might work for a pharma giant in something like Accounts Receivable where he has no interaction with the medical side, but it was a very strange comment.  That's why.   Put another way, we dont stockpile drugs for a zombie apocalypse.




My bad.  Totally missed the altruistic intent of your protest to Edd only mentioning the financial disruption. I was taken back because Edd talking money is typically your language. 

Trust when I say Edd indeed does work for a major international pharma company (not in AR) and does occasionally, in fact care about other people enough to ponder that the drugs he helps make could help them.

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## ScottySkis (Mar 14, 2020)

The town of Hunter pleaded with their mountain to close on Thursday, and continued to press them for action.  They were concerned about the health of their community.  I also have heard from multiple employees at various resorts that did not want to go to work, or were refusing.  This isn't about you or me, this is about the communities around these ski areas.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 14, 2020)

That’s the most coherent thing you’ve ever written. Kudos.


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## JimG. (Mar 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I kind of think he's right though.



His issue is with ski area management and there is no need for him to call people fools for being more understanding of the reality here.

So whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant; there is no need to be rude here. 

It sucks for everyone else who skis too.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Trust when I say Edd indeed does work for a major international pharma company (not in AR) and does occasionally, *in fact care about other people enough to ponder that the drugs he helps make could help them.*



As it should be, as do most people who've worked their lives in pharma.  The bad actors who do terrible things get all the press & all the attention (often for political reasons), but the reality is most people in pharma are good people who are proud of what they create.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> That’s the most coherent thing you’ve ever written. Kudos.



Scotty speaks perfectly coherent English in person, but he doesn't type that way.   There's no way he wrote that!


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

JimG. said:


> His issue is with ski area management and *there is no need for him to call people fools* for being more understanding of the reality here.
> *
> So whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant; there is no need to be rude *here.



Yeah, I didnt mean that bit, I just meant on the substance of the argument.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 14, 2020)

And the reality is there is no safe way to do this. I went to stratton today for last licks. It was surprisingly crowded, and that plus loading lifts at half capacity resulted in big lift lines = dense crowd of people. It’s exactly what we are not supposed to be doing. I drove thru the night, skied for under 3 hours, and decided it wasn’t fun and that I and everyone else there were behaving selfishly and irresponsibly, and I called it a day (a season) and went home. It sucks, but there are more important things than getting the value out of your fucking quad pack.

I ate my magic quad pack. Didn’t use it once. If magic/Geoff want to extend me a courtesy that would be great and I’d be very appreciative. But I’m not preemptively calling them out and personally insulting Geoff the way orca did to win. Win has been a valued member of this forum and the American ski community. Have some respect you selfish prick.


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## JimG. (Mar 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Scotty speaks perfectly coherent English in person, but he doesn't type that way.   There's no way he wrote that!



Likely copied and pasted from elsewhere.

Regardless Scotty is very sharp in person. He gets it.


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## JimG. (Mar 14, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> And the reality is there is no safe way to do this. I went to stratton today for last licks. It was surprisingly crowded, and that plus loading lifts at half capacity resulted in big lift lines = dense crowd of people. It’s exactly what we are not supposed to be doing. I drove thru the night, skied for under 3 hours, and decided it wasn’t fun and that I and everyone else there were behaving selfishly and irresponsibly, and I called it a day (a season) and went home. It sucks, but there are more important things than getting the value out of your fucking quad pack.



Yeah I'm sitting here losing interest in even going to Belleayre tomorrow. As much as I'd like to ski the season is pretty much over and I'd just as well avoid that last day that turned out to pretty much suck. And this season has done a lot of sucking so maybe I won't mind missing the last day.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 14, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Likely copied and pasted from elsewhere.
> 
> Regardless Scotty is very sharp in person. He gets it.



Lol and yes from Facebook post


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> And the reality is there is no safe way to do this. I went to stratton today for last licks. It was surprisingly crowded, and that plus loading lifts at half capacity resulted in big lift lines = dense crowd of people. It’s exactly what we are not supposed to be doing. I drove thru the night, skied for under 3 hours, and decided it wasn’t fun and that I and everyone else there were behaving selfishly and irresponsibly, and I called it a day (a season) and went home. It sucks, but there are more important things than getting the value out of your fucking quad pack.
> 
> I ate my magic quad pack. Didn’t use it once. If magic/Geoff want to extend me a courtesy that would be great and I’d be very appreciative. But I’m not preemptively calling them out and personally insulting Geoff the way orca did to win. Win has been a valued member of this forum and the American ski community. Have some respect you selfish prick.


Last summer it rained the last three days of the local university pool season and it closed early.  Had six visits left on our 25 visit ticket.  I'm in litigation with the University currently to have those visits be valid next season.   

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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 14, 2020)

Orca and SB87, man child and literal child. Both selfish know it all pieces of garbage


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2020)

Well that escalated quickly.


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## Orca (Mar 14, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Orca and SB87, man child and literal child. Both selfish know it all pieces of garbage



You have no idea the depth of your ignorance.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 14, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> And the reality is there is no safe way to do this. I went to stratton today for last licks. It was surprisingly crowded, and that plus loading lifts at half capacity resulted in big lift lines = dense crowd of people. It’s exactly what we are not supposed to be doing. I drove thru the night, skied for under 3 hours, and decided it wasn’t fun and that I and everyone else there were behaving selfishly and irresponsibly, and I called it a day (a season) and went home. It sucks, but there are more important things than getting the value out of your fucking quad pack.
> 
> I ate my magic quad pack. Didn’t use it once. If magic/Geoff want to extend me a courtesy that would be great and I’d be very appreciative. But I’m not preemptively calling them out and personally insulting Geoff the way orca did to win. Win has been a valued member of this forum and the American ski community. Have some respect you selfish prick.




Sadly I didnt get any use out of my Magic pass either.  The weather sucked.  Now the virus.  I'm just chalking it up as a loss and a donation to support an independent ski area


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## Zand (Mar 14, 2020)

Powdr a bit late to the party but Killington, Copper, Snowbird, etc are shut down immediately and will re-access next week.

Looks like Vermont is down to MRG (through tomorrow), Magic, and Smuggs (haven't seen any indication from them of closing). NH has a few more options... Loon, Cannon, Bretton Woods, Waterville, Cranmore, and Gunstock (and maybe more that I didn't check) are all open with no closing date indicated. Sugarloaf and Sunday River also with no indication.

Weird that the indies seem intent on marching through this (until the gov't tells them to shut it down) and the corporates are all done.


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## jg17 (Mar 14, 2020)

Boyne is the last corporate group open,  but I don't see it lasting. Summit at Snoqualmie is passholders and existing ticketholders only starting tomorrow, no new online or walkup ticket sales.

Edit - Brighton closed Sunday to match other Cottonwood resorts, Boyne MI mounts will finish seasons on Sunday. At the moment, other Boyne resorts to stay open


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## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

Zand said:


> Powdr a bit late to the party but Killington, Copper, Snowbird, etc are shut down immediately and will re-access next week.
> 
> Looks like Vermont is down to MRG (through tomorrow), Magic, and Smuggs (haven't seen any indication from them of closing). NH has a few more options... Loon, Cannon, Bretton Woods, Waterville, Cranmore, and Gunstock (and maybe more that I didn't check) are all open with no closing date indicated. Sugarloaf and Sunday River also with no indication.
> 
> Weird that the indies seem intent on marching through this (until the gov't tells them to shut it down) and the corporates are all done.



Magic is done tomorrow.


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## Tonyr (Mar 15, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> The town of Hunter pleaded with their mountain to close on Thursday, and continued to press them for action.  They were concerned about the health of their community.  I also have heard from multiple employees at various resorts that did not want to go to work, or were refusing.  This isn't about you or me, this is about the communities around these ski areas.



We came up to Hunter this weekend and got one day in before Vail shut things down. The local businesses up here are hurting. The hotel, restaurant, and shops in Tannersville we visited are empty. Im not so sure that everyone up in the area was in agreement to shut things down at least from what we saw outside of the resort. Already compounding the situation, Hunter mountain has had 55 inches of snow this year which is one of their worst on record.


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## Edd (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I also work for a, "pharmaceutical manufacturer", and if we closed for a very long time there would be real-world problems for real-world patients.



“Problems for real world patients” is exactly the rationale we were given. The drugs are all for serious conditions. But business be business’n.


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## Edd (Mar 15, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Same observation.  I stopped into JBI for takeout for the wife and I tonight.  I love many of our eateries, but his food would be what I'd miss the most of all if any  restaurants were to close in town. Gave Johnny an envelope of cash to distribute to his staff.  Hospitality workers are going to be so screwed for the foreseeable future.  I'm quite sensitive to that having spent so many years in the industry.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



That was a cool move, man. I should do similar for Rwks.


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## Pez (Mar 15, 2020)

Bromley seems to still be open, but I'm going to pass.  ski season over.  I think we have more serious issues right now.


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## Pez (Mar 15, 2020)

bad bad.  just saw they were closed


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## njdiver85 (Mar 15, 2020)

From a safety standpoint, it makes sense that everyone is shutting down effective immediately.  From a practical standpoint, it would also have made sense to stay open for one more day, giving shops and visitors 24 hours notice to sort things out, avoid the crazy rush, etc.  Lots of people that bought weekend 2-day tickets now need to get in line for refunds.  Request for hotel refunds will all happen at once.    Rentals all need to be returned to local shops, etc.  Staff need to hand in jackets, clear out lockers, etc.


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## legalskier (Mar 15, 2020)

*Gov. Polis issues executive order closing all Colorado ski areas for one week*

https://www.9news.com/article/news/...break/73-7fa49e14-69b0-47f9-acb6-529d34341445


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## Glenn (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> And the reality is there is no safe way to do this. I went to stratton today for last licks. It was surprisingly crowded, and that plus loading lifts at half capacity resulted in big lift lines = dense crowd of people. It’s exactly what we are not supposed to be doing. I drove thru the night, skied for under 3 hours, and decided it wasn’t fun and that I and everyone else there were behaving selfishly and irresponsibly, and I called it a day (a season) and went home. It sucks, but there are more important things than getting the value out of your fucking quad pack.
> 
> I ate my magic quad pack. Didn’t use it once. If magic/Geoff want to extend me a courtesy that would be great and I’d be very appreciative. But I’m not preemptively calling them out and personally insulting Geoff the way orca did to win. Win has been a valued member of this forum and the American ski community. Have some respect you selfish prick.



Thanks for the update. I saw the lines on the web cams yesterday and was surprised. Glad me and Mrs. decided to sit out this weekend...not like we could have gone today.


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## Pez (Mar 15, 2020)

Butternut is closing after today


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## Zermatt (Mar 15, 2020)

Pez said:


> Butternut is closing after today



NOT BUTTERNUT!!!!

Honestly, not really upset.  A few weeks ago I was joking because I knew school would close and we would just go hang out at our place in VT, stay safe and go skiing.  Now s**t is so real, skiing is the last thing I care about and at least the FOMO is gone for skiing...because I don't have a choice.

I have full Ikon and honestly don't care one bit about getting a refund or anything.  I just hope they are able to keep paying their employees as long as reasonable.


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## Pez (Mar 15, 2020)

haha, ya I'm actually in the process for washing and putting away my gear right now.  seems like going there would be bad karma anyway.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 15, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Does everyone follow suit or does say Killington keep pushing on because well they're K



Apparently, everyone is following Vail!  And for Colorado it will go past 3/22

Executive Order by Colorado Governor - Colorado ski areas shut down indefinitely.  I see that this ski area shut down trend is spreading like wildfire.


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## jg17 (Mar 15, 2020)

Boyne resorts have called it quits after COB today.


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## kingslug (Mar 15, 2020)

Guess we will all have to start our non ski season hobbies ..I doubt anyone will reopen..this is not going away in a few week...months maybe.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Guess we will all have to start our non ski season hobbies ..I doubt anyone will reopen..this is not going away in a few week...months maybe.



What hobbies? The entire country is shutting down.  But I guess if you want to surf the net and watch cable news all day....


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> *What hobbies? *The entire country is shutting down.  But I guess if you want to surf the net and watch cable news all day....



I'm about to go for a hike at a huge state park with my wife and kid (of course, my guess is State of New Jersey will close all parks this week too as silly as that would be).

Trout fishing will start soon.  I dont think I need to Social Distance myself from fish (yet).


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## snoseek (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> What hobbies? The entire country is shutting down.  But I guess if you want to surf the net and watch cable news all day....



Mountain bike season is here. Hike. Fish. Fix stuff. Run. Rock climb. Life doesn't need to stop. You just have to choose activities carefully .


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## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm about to go for a hike at a huge state park with my wife and kid (of course, my guess is State of New Jersey will close all parks this week too as silly as that would be).
> 
> Trout fishing will start soon.  I dont think I need to Social Distance myself from fish (yet).



That's the thing, the way the country is freaking out, I see it getting even worse and doing much of anything besides sitting at home will be difficult to impossible.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

snoseek said:


> Mountain bike season is here. Hike. Fish. Fix stuff. Run. Rock climb. Life doesn't need to stop. You just have to choose activities carefully .



I do a lot of hiking and running, but it's more of a workout thing for me than a hobby.   Will have to wait and see what happens with mountain biking, if places stay closed cause of the virus, are the bike parks going to open?


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## snoseek (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> I do a lot of hiking and running, but it's more of a workout thing for me than a hobby.   Will have to wait and see what happens with mountain biking, if places stay closed cause of the virus, are the bike parks going to open?



I'm pretty into riding dirt but have plenty of fun just riding cc singletrack. Bike parks not needed for a lot of people. I'm sure they will go at some point.


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## kingslug (Mar 15, 2020)

You dont need things to be open to have hobbies..


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## chuckstah (Mar 15, 2020)

Guess I'll be opening the beach cottage early. It's easy to avoid people on the Cape this time of year. This sucks. 

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## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

kingslug said:


> You dont need things to be open to have hobbies..



You do if your hobbies involve going most places other than your own property to do them


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## JimG. (Mar 15, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Yeah I'm sitting here losing interest in even going to Belleayre tomorrow. As much as I'd like to ski the season is pretty much over and I'd just as well avoid that last day that turned out to pretty much suck. And this season has done a lot of sucking so maybe I won't mind missing the last day.



I did not ski today; didn't want to behave selfishly and irresponsibly. It's not that important. I didn't miss anything.

Having fun tuning up my fishing rods and cleaning out my tackle boxes.


----------



## JimG. (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> You do if your hobbies involve going most places other than your own property to do them



I own 5 acres with a trout stream running through the middle. I might fish my private beat this season more then I have in the 17 years we have been here combined.

Kind of boring but my stretch of water is straight and pretty wide so it's ideal for practicing my fledgling fly fishing skills.

Pretty sure I'll be able to access NYC reservoirs with our rowboats too.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

JimG. said:


> I own 5 acres with a trout stream running through the middle. I might fish my private beat this season more then I have in the 17 years we have been here combined.
> 
> Kind of boring but my stretch of water is straight and pretty wide so it's ideal for practicing my fledgling fly fishing skills.
> 
> Pretty sure I'll be able to access NYC reservoirs with our rowboats too.



I might have to try the fishing thing.   Never really got much into it but now may be the time...


----------



## JimG. (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> I might have to try the fishing thing.   Never really got much into it but now may be the time...



Fishing is an excellent way to develop patience. I've learned over the years that patience is a hard earned skill but well worth having.

I stick to wading in rivers or rowboats on lakes and reservoirs to include some physical activity for the win/win.


----------



## snoseek (Mar 15, 2020)

JimG. said:


> I own 5 acres with a trout stream running through the middle. I might fish my private beat this season more then I have in the 17 years we have been here combined.
> 
> Kind of boring but my stretch of water is straight and pretty wide so it's ideal for practicing my fledgling fly fishing skills.
> 
> Pretty sure I'll be able to access NYC reservoirs with our rowboats too.



I'm leaving my house tomorrow, driving to a trailhead for about 15 minutes and then pedaling in the woods where I'll likely not see anyone. If I do I'll keep some space. I think it's ok to leave the house as long as you do it smartly.


----------



## JimG. (Mar 15, 2020)

snoseek said:


> I'm leaving my house tomorrow, driving to a trailhead for about 15 minutes and then pedaling in the woods where I'll likely not see anyone. If I do I'll keep some space. I think it's ok to leave the house as long as you do it smartly.



Yes I'm avoiding all group activities for the next month. Part of preventing the spread is not getting sick and spreading it yourself. 

When I fish my main goal in terms of movement is to stay as far away from other people who are fishing as possible.


----------



## snoseek (Mar 15, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Yes I'm avoiding all group activities for the next month. Part of preventing the spread is not getting sick and spreading it yourself.
> 
> When I fish my main goal in terms of movement is to stay as far away from other people who are fishing as possible.



Yep...with that mindset it's not so bad.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

The cognitive dissonance of this issue is bizarre to me.

 It is illogical to demand a place with low likelihood for COVID19 transference (outdoor ski area) should be shut down, while not demanding a place with much higher likelihood for COVID19 transference (malls, restaurants, shops, etc.) be shut down. Starbucks is far riskier than Stowe. Dominoes is far riskier than Deer Valley.  And I mean huge magnitudes of order here in terms of viral risk.   Yet I see all these virtue-signalling people "demanding" all ski areas close on my FB pages.  Scientifically, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

EDIT:   Put a shorter way, if we're really going to be serious & intellectually consistant here, every restaurant in America needs to close.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

And just for an addendum to my last post, Snowbird is actually leaving its' restaurants OPEN, while closing ski ops.   This makes absolutely no flippin' sense from a viral risk-management perspective & seems to suggest Snowbird was "shamed" into shutting ski ops down.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

i agree that the restaurants need to close. at least in denser cities. nyc just closed the schools - good. now they need to close the bars, and make restaurants delivery/take out only. people should not be in close proximity and any proximity outside of your household needs to be for necessity only.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The cognitive dissonance of this issue is bizarre to me.
> 
> It is illogical to demand a place with low likelihood for COVID19 transference (outdoor ski area) should be shut down, while not demanding a place with much higher likelihood for COVID19 transference (malls, restaurants, shops, etc.) be shut down. Starbucks is far riskier than Stowe. Dominoes is far riskier than Deer Valley.  And I mean huge magnitudes of order here in terms of viral risk.   Yet I see all these virtue-signalling people "demanding" all ski areas close on my FB pages.  Scientifically, it makes absolutely no sense to me.
> 
> EDIT:   Put a shorter way, if we're really going to be serious & intellectually consistant here, every restaurant in America needs to close.



I think it's the typical greedy evil corporation trying to make money above all else thing that some people believe  that started the shaming of ski areas into closing.   I agree theres absolutely no consistency in demanding one thing close while not seeming to have an issue with far more potentially dangerous places staying open


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The cognitive dissonance of this issue is bizarre to me.
> 
> It is illogical to demand a place with low likelihood for COVID19 transference (outdoor ski area) should be shut down, while not demanding a place with much higher likelihood for COVID19 transference (malls, restaurants, shops, etc.) be shut down. Starbucks is far riskier than Stowe. Dominoes is far riskier than Deer Valley.  And I mean huge magnitudes of order here in terms of viral risk.   Yet I see all these virtue-signalling people "demanding" all ski areas close on my FB pages.  Scientifically, it makes absolutely no sense to me.
> 
> EDIT:   Put a shorter way, if we're really going to be serious & intellectually consistant here, every restaurant in America needs to close.


I read that Illinois has closed all of theirs.  South Boston has and there's been major restrictions on restaurant operations put in place for the rest of the city.



Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

cities and suburbs need to do their part and shut it all down and only allow absolutely necessary business and interaction

ski areas need to and mostly have done their part in shutting down the temptation for asymptomatic carriers from cities and suburbs to bring the virus to rural areas


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> cities and suburbs need to do their part and shut it all down and only allow absolutely necessary business and interaction
> 
> ski areas need to and mostly have done their part in shutting down the temptation for asymptomatic carriers from cities and suburbs to bring the virus to rural areas



I'm really surprised public transportation hasnt been shut down yet


----------



## Terry (Mar 15, 2020)

snoseek said:


> Mountain bike season is here. Hike. Fish. Fix stuff. Run. Rock climb. Life doesn't need to stop. You just have to choose activities carefully .


Exactly. There are plenty of other outdoor activities you can do. I will be breaking out my skins.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> I'm really surprised public transportation hasnt been shut down yet



its a drastic step in nyc. its a really difficult issue. so many people dont have access to private transit here and would effectively be stranded. it would create a nightmare for some people to get their food, medicines, and other absolute necessities. 

my company made the sensible decision over this weekend to let us all work from home for the foreseeable future with an explicit message that deciding to do so will not prejudice anyones career. they are paying for any IT needs including home internet for all employees thru, for now, the end of june. i need to email our IT team to get a docking station and large monitor for home use. simultaneously, they are also keeping our office open for people unable to work from home for whatever reason and ordering delivery lunch on the company's dime every single day so people can avoid unnecessary interactions. i feel very fortunate. the option to work from home would have been enough.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

Terry said:


> Exactly. There are plenty of other outdoor activities you can do. I will be breaking out my skins.



From what I've seen, the mountains don't want people on the hill at all


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> *I read that Illinois has closed all of theirs.*



Holy crap!  Now that's going nuclear.  If we're going to take this seriously, at least that's intellectually consistent with reality.



icecoast1 said:


> I'm really *surprised public transportation hasnt been shut down *yet



Even WORSE than eating in restaurants is riding on a rush hour subway.   Wanna' really get serious?   Leave public transit open, but only for medically essential personnel, EMS, police, fire, and first responders, etc...    To the sort of person who's a large US city mayor, public transportation is more important to them ideologically than the air they breathe, so I doubt you'll see this one.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> its a drastic step in nyc. its a really difficult issue. so many people dont have access to private transit here and would effectively be stranded. it would create a nightmare for some people to get their food, medicines, and other absolute necessities.




Purely from a perspective of keeping sick people away from each other, you'd think you want to do it.  Also if you're told no unnecessary travel but still keep it open, many people will abuse it, look at the selfish shopping habits on full display right now.  I can't pretend to know how it would effect day to day life in a large city though, because I dont live in one and never have


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

i think keeping hte trains open but restricting it to offical and narrowly permitted business is appropriate. italy has issued some sort of hall pass form system for people leaving the house. we need to do that in nyc. its a horrific thought to limit people's motion but we need to stop the spread of this thing. its serious shit. not loving being a city dweller right now.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> *they are....ordering delivery lunch on the company's dime every single day*



Hard pass.

Dont order the coronavirus soup.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

i dont even know if its this thread or another one because we have the same conversation(s) going on in multiple places, but see my recent post re: the presumptive safety of cooked food. that being said, we are locked and loaded for a few weeks of home cooking at my place.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 15, 2020)

Terry said:


> Exactly. There are plenty of other outdoor activities you can do. I will be breaking out my skins.


Gotta be careful with that though. If one lives in a mountain community, then great, you're staying local to skin. If one is driving from one geographic area to another to skin, then that person traveling is potentially bringing the virus into an area where it may not yet be, and that's not a good thing.

Trying to keep this virus geographically isolated is going to be key to reducing it's effects and the number of people exposed to the virus

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Hard pass.
> 
> Dont order the coronavirus soup.



That's exactly why I stopped eating take out weeks before things ever got this bad.   It's easier to know if the person making your food is safe when you're the one making it


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 15, 2020)

Mass just banned on site consumption at all restaurants and bars.  Take out only

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## snoseek (Mar 15, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Mass just banned on site consumption at all restaurants and bars.  Take out only
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Yep....I work right across the line and while it's awful it should have happened sooner imo. I've got a lot of very nervous coworkers. I'm hoping they get essentials taken care of or they're on the street.

Countrywide if this extends beyond a month, which seems like a very strong possibility, a while lot of places wont Make it. Margins are razor thin especially for indy operated establishments.  This all fucking sucks!


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Mass just banned on site consumption at all restaurants and bars.  *Take out only*


 
Dumb.   If you're going to go 9 yards, go 10 yards & completely shut them down.

I'm more worried the chef, line-cook, or food packager has coronavirus than the person I can I.D. sitting in the booth next to me.   One infected food packager or cook could theoretically infect scores of patrons getting take-out.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

for like the 10th time, cooked food is presumptively safe. not everyone has the capacity to cook for themselves. people need to eat. you dont have to patronize open restaurants, but many people need to. limiting gathering but making cooked food available to people is the right balance.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> *for like the 10th time, cooked food is presumptively safe*.



Is that from the Restaurant Association of America?    

When the minimum wage food jockey adjusts your hamburger bun with bare hands, that's not safe.  

When your "cooked food" is handled by bare hands (after cooking) by the guy who just wiped his nose, that's not safe.  It's the AFTER cooking that's the problem.

Neither potentially are the disposable food containers, plastic utensils, or paper bags, etc.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

not ideal, but the MA decision is the most reasonable given the competing interests at play, and i hope ny does the same. not everyone is able to cook for themselves, people need to eat, and it gives the restaurants the opportunity to try and stay afloat.


----------



## snoseek (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Is that from the Restaurant Association of America?
> 
> When the minimum wage food jockey adjusts your hamburger bun with bare hands, that's not safe.
> 
> ...



I want to yell at you right now and mention that for the most part I've seen pretty safe practices over the past 15 or so years since things have tightened up and we aren't nearly as retarded as you make us out to be, you're right in this situation.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Is that from the Restaurant Association of America?
> 
> When the minimum wage food jockey adjusts your hamburger bun with bare hands, that's not safe.
> 
> ...



Dont forget the people that wear gloves, but then handle money and keep the same glove on and handle your food.  Yeah I think I'll cook for myself for a while. Eliminate the risk


----------



## medfordmike (Mar 15, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Purely from a perspective of keeping sick people away from each other, you'd think you want to do it.  Also if you're told no unnecessary travel but still keep it open, many people will abuse it, look at the selfish shopping habits on full display right now.  I can't pretend to know how it would effect day to day life in a large city though, because I dont live in one and never have



I work for an academic medical center in Boston.  A huge number of our employees get to work by the T.  Not the surgeons or the doctors but many nurses, cleaning staff, etc. who make the place run.  I am avoiding the T but so many simply can't.


----------



## catskillman (Mar 15, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> The town of Hunter pleaded with their mountain to close on Thursday, and continued to press them for action.  They were concerned about the health of their community.  I also have heard from multiple employees at various resorts that did not want to go to work, or were refusing.  This isn't about you or me, this is about the communities around these ski areas.



The word on the street is - the one infected person was from Brooklyn and stayed at a local upscale hotel, not the mountain hotel.

the local doctor pushed for closure.  The town distributed signs to ALL local businesses.  It was actually quite impressive the action that was taken quickly by Vail, not the town to spread out and remove tables, restrict food, and limit the # of people on the chair ( 6 pack took only 3).

In driving through town today there were several businesses open, and most restaurants in Tannersville.  Why did the TOWN not push for them to close?


----------



## kbroderick (Mar 15, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The cognitive dissonance of this issue is bizarre to me.
> 
> It is illogical to demand a place with low likelihood for COVID19 transference (outdoor ski area) should be shut down, while not demanding a place with much higher likelihood for COVID19 transference (malls, restaurants, shops, etc.) be shut down. Starbucks is far riskier than Stowe. Dominoes is far riskier than Deer Valley.  And I mean huge magnitudes of order here in terms of viral risk.   Yet I see all these virtue-signalling people "demanding" all ski areas close on my FB pages.  Scientifically, it makes absolutely no sense to me.
> 
> EDIT:   Put a shorter way, if we're really going to be serious & intellectually consistant here, every restaurant in America needs to close.



The problem isn't the skiing itself. It's lift lines (with people ignoring instructions to maintain 2m spacing), plus the geographic transfer that occurs because the ski area attracts people from out of area, and instead of having a relatively isolated community of 2,500 people using the local grocery store, you've got 10k or more visitors from all over. 

And yes, I do think dining out right now is dumb. My wife's birthday is this week, and last week she brought up the idea of going out for pizza; at the time, I felt a little paranoid saying that we should plan to about restaurants for a while. I'd be shocked if the Boston outbreak didn't touch our local resort this weekend, and if it did, I'd expect the spread via restaurants and bars to be substantial.   

I do believe that restaurants should be seriously pondering a switch to take out only, because the opportunity for spread in a table service environment is huge. If you get all the food safety stuff right, you can mostly mitigate that, but I'm not willing to bet that most restaurants are that good without knowing someone who works for them and can vouch for kitchen conditions. 

It's kinda like having a deer carcass on the side of the road--the biggest issue isn't the rotting carcass itself; it's the animals that come to feed on it and become traffic hazards.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 15, 2020)

catskillman said:


> The word on the street is - the one infected person was from Brooklyn and stayed at a local upscale hotel, not the mountain hotel.
> 
> the local doctor pushed for closure.  The town distributed signs to ALL local businesses.  It was actually quite impressive the action that was taken quickly by Vail, not the town to spread out and remove tables, restrict food, and limit the # of people on the chair ( 6 pack took only 3).
> 
> In driving through town today there were several businesses open, and most restaurants in Tannersville.  Why did the TOWN not push for them to close?



I didn't know about the effected person
That makes me mad town wants$ in small fraction what going on in crazy sad world now.


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 16, 2020)

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-sun-lesson-1918-influenza-pandemic


----------



## Zermatt (Mar 16, 2020)

Colorado resort towns are seeing the biggest outbreaks:

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/15/new-coronavirus-cases-colorado/

Australians with coronavirus that were asked to self-isolate go skiing instead in Aspen:

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/isolated-australians-allegedly-defy-order-go-skiing/


----------



## catskillman (Mar 16, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> I didn't know about the effected person
> That makes me mad town wants$ in small fraction what going on in crazy sad world now.



Windham was open yesterday, Sunday.  The rumor several days ago was that they had a patroller that tested positive.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 16, 2020)

catskillman said:


> Windham was open yesterday, Sunday.  The rumor several days ago was that they had a patroller that tested positive.



Just glad I stayed away from all ski areas in last week since it becomes obvious that this was happening.


----------



## catskillman (Mar 16, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> Just glad I stayed away from all ski areas in last week since it becomes obvious that this was happening.



Not my review for Hunter on Saturday -  but once again I can vouch for the accuracy - ABSURD ----

 It was a very interesting day starting with the ominous warning sign on the entry door.
Well things only got more strange heading to the six pack and tried to figure out the new coronavirus friendly lift line. Of course a line dead ended, but that was only the beginning. The stantion is back and the little line obstruction is gone. In it's place is a 3 person load to create 'seperation'. Except everyone is standing next to each other in the line.

But, it gets better. At the Florida lift it appeared no one got the email. It was fill the chair as usual. That was the same policy being followed at the Zebra lift. But, the Northern express closed the 2 outside lanes forcing the remaining four together. They definitely didn't get the email. Maybe a staff meeting would be a better approach where everyone is actually doing the same thing!


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 16, 2020)

catskillman said:


> Not my review for Hunter on Saturday -  but once again I can vouch for the accuracy - ABSURD ----
> 
> It was a very interesting day starting with the ominous warning sign on the entry door.
> Well things only got more strange heading to the six pack and tried to figure out the new coronavirus friendly lift line. Of course a line dead ended, but that was only the beginning. The stantion is back and the little line obstruction is gone. In it's place is a 3 person load to create 'seperation'. Except everyone is standing next to each other in the line.
> ...



Yes it's terrible to see just about$$$ to compine s. and not health
Glad I made decion to not ski when I saw the madness on facecrap for people that where determined to ski last weekend unknowingly or caring about what risks that they take and it good thing ski area close d or would be undertaking how worse could had been.


----------



## Tonyr (Mar 16, 2020)

I spoke with an employee at a Vail resort today and she said that they've been told that the season is over. I know that they announced a re-evaluation at the end of this week but it looks like the decision to not re-open their resorts this year has already been made. (Assuming the info I got is correct)


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 16, 2020)

Tonyr said:


> I spoke with an employee at a Vail resort today and she said that they've been told that the season is over. I know that they announced a re-evaluation at the end of this week but it looks like the decision to not re-open their resorts this year has already been made. (Assuming the info I got is correct)



It's correct.  Whether the employee has inside information or not, it's correct.


----------



## Keelhauled (Mar 16, 2020)

It's out of their hands at this point, between state restrictions on gatherings and CDC guidance.  They'd have to be certifiably insane to try and open under these conditions.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 16, 2020)

Unless its June and theres still snow on Superstar, theres no chance anybody reopens


----------



## drjeff (Mar 16, 2020)

Keelhauled said:


> It's out of their hands at this point, between state restrictions on gatherings and CDC guidance.  They'd have to be certifiably insane to try and open under these conditions.


Yup, and you're likely going to see places like Disney and Universal and the Six Flags parks closed for a majority, if not all of those 8 weeks now 

The NBA and NHL are done for the year. MLB at best starts up around Memorial Day. Concerts, festivals, etc, etc, etc aren't happening..  

Crazy to think that this all started from likely a sick bat contaminating some meat at an open air meat and fish market in central China about 3 months ago.  Makes you also think about how "small" the world is these days and how rapidly a virus can spread and more often than not due to our own less than ideal hygiene practices....

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 16, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Crazy to think that* this all started from likely a sick bat contaminating some meat at an open air meat and fish market *in central China about 3 months ago.



Maybe.

I still cant get over the fact the only Level 4 Biosafety Laboratory in all of China (not exactly a tiny nation) just happens to be in Wuhan.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 16, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Maybe.
> 
> I still cant get over the fact the only Level 4 Biosafety Laboratory in all of China (not exactly a tiny nation) just happens to be in Wuhan.



Shhhhhhhhhhhh.  China doesn't want you to think things like that


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Mar 17, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Y
> 
> The NBA and NHL are done for the year.
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app




The NHL has made it pretty clear, that for now, they want to have some sort of season and playoffs.   in 4 weeks that likely will change if the status is quo...


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 17, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> The NHL has made it pretty clear, that for now, they want to have some sort of season and playoffs.   in 4 weeks that likely will change if the status is quo...




NHL will be more difficult to play in summer due to the ice situation.  MLB is already postponed til at least late May, we wont see anything til at least then with the current CDC guidelines


----------



## trackbiker (Mar 17, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> NHL will be more difficult to play in summer due to the ice situation.



They have no problem keeping the ice year round.


----------



## kingslug (Mar 17, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Shhhhhhhhhhhh.  China doesn't want you to think things like that


My thoughts exactly...


----------



## skiur (Mar 17, 2020)

https://www.snow.com/info/vail-resorts- ... ARN%20MORE

[FONT=&quot]VAIL RESORTS TO CLOSE NORTH AMERICAN RESORTS FOR THE 2019-20 SKI SEASON[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]THE COMPANY WILL CONSIDER REOPENING BRECKENRIDGE, HEAVENLY AND WHISTLER BLACKCOMB DEPENDENT ON THE SITUATION WITH COVID-19 AND WEATHER CONDITIONS[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BROOMFIELD, Colo. — Mar. 17, 2020 — Vail Resorts announced today that all of its North American resorts and retail stores will remain closed for the 2019-20 winter ski season amidst the continued challenges associated with the spread of coronavirus (COVID-19). The decision follows the Company’s previously announced closure of its resorts from Sunday, March 15 through Sunday, March 22.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*The Company will consider reopening Breckenridge Ski Resort in Colorado, Heavenly Mountain Resort in Lake Tahoe and Whistler Blackcomb in British Columbia in late April/early May, dependent on the situation with COVID-19 as well as weather conditions.
*[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Additionally, the Company’s owned and operated lodging properties will close on Friday, March 20, with final check-ins allowed until 4 p.m. MT today. Epic Mountain Express, the Company’s Colorado transportation service, will run through tomorrow, Wednesday, March 18. Both will remain closed until further notice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Our decision to end the season now is evidence of the fast-moving situation involving COVID-19, and it was not an easy one to make as we deeply considered the extended impact it will have on our guests, employees and communities,” said Rob Katz, chairman and chief executive officer of Vail Resorts. “While it is incredibly disappointing for our Company to mark the end of the season so early, we know it is the most responsible path forward.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Guests can process refunds and credits on pre-purchased lift tickets, lodging, ski and ride school, equipment rentals and more, subject to applicable terms and conditions, using an online form that will be available later today on the Company’s resort websites.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]About Vail Resorts, Inc. (NYSE: MTN)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vail Resorts, Inc., through its subsidiaries, is the leading global mountain resort operator. Vail Resorts’ subsidiaries operate 37 world-class mountain resorts and urban ski areas, including Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone and Crested Butte in Colorado; Park City in Utah; Heavenly, Northstar and Kirkwood in the Lake Tahoe area of California and Nevada; Whistler Blackcomb in British Columbia, Canada; Perisher, Falls Creek and Hotham in Australia; Stowe, Mount Snow, Okemo in Vermont; Hunter Mountain in New York; Mount Sunapee, Attitash, Wildcat and Crotched in New Hampshire; Stevens Pass in Washington; Liberty, Roundtop, Whitetail, Jack Frost and Big Boulder in Pennsylvania; Alpine Valley, Boston Mills, Brandywine and Mad River in Ohio; Hidden Valley and Snow Creek in Missouri; Wilmot in Wisconsin; Afton Alps in Minnesota; Mt. Brighton in Michigan; and Paoli Peaks in Indiana. Vail Resorts owns and/or manages a collection of casually elegant hotels under the RockResorts brand, as well as the Grand Teton Lodge Company in Jackson Hole, Wyo. Vail Resorts Development Company is the real estate planning and development subsidiary of Vail Resorts, Inc. Vail Resorts is a publicly held company traded on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE: MTN). The Vail Resorts company website is [/FONT]www.vailresorts.com[FONT=&quot] and consumer website is [/FONT]www.snow.com[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]


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## cdskier (Mar 17, 2020)

Not at all surprised by that announcement. It will take a while for things to change to the point where resorts could realistically reopen. This isn't going to be just a couple week thing.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 17, 2020)

No surprise there.  It was obvious last Sunday that it was the end


----------



## Glenn (Mar 17, 2020)

While not Vail, I'm assuming others will follow...The mid mountain cam at Stratton currently shows a groomer moving snow around; usually they type of stuff they do after they close for the season.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 17, 2020)

Glenn said:


> While not Vail, I'm assuming others will follow...The mid mountain cam at Stratton currently shows a groomer moving snow around; usually they type of stuff they do after they close for the season.



Win's e-mail on Sunday offered a very realistic view that it was unlikely Sugarbush will reopen this season.


----------



## Corwin (Mar 17, 2020)

Glenn said:


> While not Vail, I'm assuming others will follow...The mid mountain cam at Stratton currently shows a groomer moving snow around; usually they type of stuff they do after they close for the season.


Serious question: what's the point of moving snow around after they close for the season?


----------



## Zand (Mar 17, 2020)

I feel like everyone in the east except Killington will arrive at this by the end of the weekend. And Killington will announce closed till early May. They'll use that snow on Superstar if they can.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 17, 2020)

Corwin said:


> Serious question: what's the point of moving snow around after they close for the season?


A few reasons... 

Often they will push out the features in a terrain park to discourage folks from hiking for them, and potentially injuring themselves on a feature.

Sometimes it's done to expedite the melting of snow over a work road to expedite the start of off season projects/maintenance

Sometimes it's also the cats up on the hill helping out taking down lift tower pads, any portable Snowmaking equipment/hoses, and ski patrol marking ropes/poles

This season with how rapidly things shut down, there likely will be cats used to help transport mountain ops folks up and around the hill to prep lifts and on mountain restaurants, etc for the off season, since usually that a much longer process than basically totally open 1 day and then done for the year with little "warning" the next day

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 17, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Crazy to think that this all started from likely a sick bat contaminating some meat at an open air meat and fish market in central China about 3 months ago.  Makes you also think about how "small" the world is these days and how rapidly a virus can spread and more often than not due to our own less than ideal hygiene practices....



This should be a big learning lesson for humanity, especially with modern air travel, on how not to spread contagions, or we'll end up going the way of the dinosaurs...


----------



## O09 (Mar 17, 2020)

Looks like encroachment into bat habitat is the leading reason for these outbreaks.  

"Many of the recently emerging highly virulent zoonotic diseases have a likely bat origin, for example Hendra, Nipah, Ebola and diseases caused by coronaviruses. Presumably because of their long history of coevolution, most of these viruses remain subclinical in bats, but have the potential to cause severe illnesses in domestic and wildlife animals and also humans. Spillovers from bats to humans either happen directly (via contact with infected bats) or indirectly (via intermediate hosts such as domestic or wildlife animals, by consuming food items contaminated by saliva, faeces or urine of bats, or via other environmental sources). Increasing numbers of breakouts of zoonotic viral diseases among humans and livestock have mainly been accounted to human encroachment into natural habitat, as well as agricultural intensification, deforestation and bushmeat consumption. Persecution of bats, including the destruction of their roosts and culling of whole colonies, has led not only to declines of protected bat species, but also to an increase in virus prevalence in some of these populations. Educational efforts are needed in order to prevent future spillovers of bat-borne viruses to humans and livestock, and to further protect bats from unnecessary and counterproductive culling."


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 17, 2020)

O09 said:


> Looks like encroachment into bat habitat is the leading reason for these outbreaks.



Occam's Razor.

Sure, you could go with the PETA approved & environmentally kooky crisis profiteering explanation, but I'll stick with the far simpler, _"people in nations who literally eat bats bought from filthy open-air wet markets"_ as the more likely explanation.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 17, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Occam's Razor.
> 
> Sure, you could go with the PETA approved & environmentally kooky crisis profiteering explanation, but I'll stick with the far simpler, _"people in nations who literally eat bats bought from filthy open-air wet markets"_ as the more likely explanation.



That explains why the president keep s saying it came from China?
Be nice if stopped blaming it and help fixed the problem before it was to late.
I don't actually expected that from politics parties to care about the country to late.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 17, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> That explains why the president keep s saying it came from China?
> Be nice if stopped blaming it and help fixed the problem before it was to late.
> I don't actually expected that from politics parties to care about the country to late.



I'm pretty sure most people agree it originated in China at this point


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 17, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> *That explains why the president keep s saying it came from China?*



The reason the president keeps saying it came from China is because it came from China.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 17, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The reason the president keeps saying it came from China is because it came from China.



But for like a month that all he said about the situation to Friday.


----------



## RichT (Mar 17, 2020)

I've been to China, came out of a store, made a right instead of a left, walked 1/2 block and came upon one of these "open air markets"!! Let me tell you, it was one of the most weird, bizarre, scary, gross, dirty place I've ever been! I can't quite explain it, but man, horrible.


----------



## Harvey (Mar 17, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The reason the president keeps saying it came from China is because it came from China.



It came from China, and he keeps saying it came from China. But that is not reason he keeps saying it.


----------



## EPB (Mar 17, 2020)

Harvey said:


> It came from China, and he keeps saying it came from China. But that is not reason he keeps saying it.


Don't leave us hanging!

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## ScottySkis (Mar 17, 2020)

Harvey said:


> It came from China, and he keeps saying it came from China. But that is not reason he keeps saying it.



Exactly
I agree 1000%.


----------



## thetrailboss (Mar 17, 2020)

O09 said:


> Looks like encroachment into bat habitat is the leading reason for these outbreaks.
> 
> "Many of the recently emerging highly virulent zoonotic diseases have a likely bat origin, for example Hendra, Nipah, Ebola and diseases caused by coronaviruses. Presumably because of their long history of coevolution, most of these viruses remain subclinical in bats, but have the potential to cause severe illnesses in domestic and wildlife animals and also humans. Spillovers from bats to humans either happen directly (via contact with infected bats) or indirectly (via intermediate hosts such as domestic or wildlife animals, by consuming food items contaminated by saliva, faeces or urine of bats, or via other environmental sources). Increasing numbers of breakouts of zoonotic viral diseases among humans and livestock have mainly been accounted to human encroachment into natural habitat, as well as agricultural intensification, deforestation and bushmeat consumption. Persecution of bats, including the destruction of their roosts and culling of whole colonies, has led not only to declines of protected bat species, but also to an increase in virus prevalence in some of these populations. Educational efforts are needed in order to prevent future spillovers of bat-borne viruses to humans and livestock, and to further protect bats from unnecessary and counterproductive culling."



I’m pretty sure this was because of contact at a wildlife market in Wuhang, China.  Not because of any encroachment.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 17, 2020)

Harvey said:


> It came from China, and he keeps saying it came from China. But that is not reason he keeps saying it.



I think I saw a conspiracy theory that this was hatched by the Chinese to defeat Trump. How stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Harvey (Mar 17, 2020)

This virus was purposely not named with country of origin to avoid making it easier to divide us.

A noble gesture, easily defeated by a determined adversary.


----------



## Edd (Mar 18, 2020)

Harvey said:


> It came from China, and he keeps saying it came from China. But that is not reason he keeps saying it.



Would be very on-brand for this administration to call it the Not Trump’s Fault Coronavirus.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 18, 2020)

Harvey said:


> This virus was purposely not named with country of origin to avoid making it easier to divide us.
> 
> A noble gesture, easily defeated by a determined adversary.




I guess we should go back through and change all the names of the viruses and diseases who's names have anything to do with their place of origin because its evil and racist.   China should own this thing


----------



## kbroderick (Mar 18, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> I guess we should go back through and change all the names of the viruses and diseases who's names have anything to do with their place of origin because its evil and racist.   China should own this thing



That's actually why the official name is Covid-19: they now name diseases without reference to place or animal, as doing so in the past has led to people making assumptions (see also: Corona sales dropping). And honestly, the drop in Corona beer sales probably tells you all you need to know about why it's best to use a disease name that doesn't potentially trigger a response towards a particular ethnic group (or animal group).


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 18, 2020)

Not buying a beer cause of the name is pretty dumb although I dont have much sympathy because that stuff is gross


----------



## EPB (Mar 18, 2020)

kbroderick said:


> That's actually why the official name is Covid-19: they now name diseases without reference to place or animal, as doing so in the past has led to people making assumptions (see also: Corona sales dropping). And honestly, the drop in Corona beer sales probably tells you all you need to know about why it's best to use a disease name that doesn't potentially trigger a response towards a particular ethnic group (or animal group).



Poor Spaniards still getting dragged though the mud. The unnecessary damage done to their reputation is reprehensible. After 100 years and a PC revolution, we still insist on calling it the Spanish Flu. I bet flights from the US to Spain are way down too.

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----------



## urungus (Mar 18, 2020)

kbroderick said:


> That's actually why the official name is Covid-19: they now name diseases without reference to place or animal, as doing so in the past has led to people making assumptions (see also: Corona sales dropping). And honestly, the drop in Corona beer sales probably tells you all you need to know about why it's best to use a disease name that doesn't potentially trigger a response towards a particular ethnic group (or animal group).



Yup

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200317-vvk734btqjgh7blbdt5chwvlqy-story.html

https://nypost.com/2020/03/06/woman...g-chinese-friend-over-coronavirus-harassment/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavirus-racist-attacks-against-asian-americans/index.html


----------



## machski (Mar 18, 2020)

urungus said:


> Yup
> 
> https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200317-vvk734btqjgh7blbdt5chwvlqy-story.html
> 
> ...


Yes,, but the President isn't naming the origin for this purpose, so ethnic groups get attacked.  He is naming the country because they jumped all over him when he cut off flights from China to the US early in the outbrake while it was still mostly contained in China.  Granted, they locked down Wuhan after that and seemingly have tamped it down in their country.  But early on, they (The Government of China) wanted to act to the rest of the world like nothing was wrong.  That is why they keep the origin emphasis on.  For now, it won't be addressed.  Years from now, I hope we and UN look at this and put things in place to better stem the next outbreak faster.  To do that will likely require tough action on the nation of Origin this time for their lack of initial action to protect and contain.

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----------



## trackbiker (Mar 18, 2020)

machski said:


> Yes,, but the President isn't naming the origin for this purpose, so ethnic groups get attacked.  He is naming the country because they jumped all over him when he cut off flights from China to the US early in the outbrake while it was still mostly contained in China.  Granted, they locked down Wuhan after that and seemingly have tamped it down in their country.  But early on, they (The Government of China) wanted to act to the rest of the world like nothing was wrong.  That is why they keep the origin emphasis on.  For now, it won't be addressed.  Years from now, I hope we and UN look at this and put things in place to better stem the next outbreak faster.  To do that will likely require tough action on the nation of Origin this time for their lack of initial action to protect and contain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



You missed the whole point. By his being vindictive toward China he is causing ignorant people to attack innocent people just because of their race. A President should lead for the good of the country. There are other ways he can "get back" at China without creating another "other".


----------



## EPB (Mar 18, 2020)

machski said:


> Yes,, but the President isn't naming the origin for this purpose, so ethnic groups get attacked.  He is naming the country because they jumped all over him when he cut off flights from China to the US early in the outbrake while it was still mostly contained in China.  Granted, they locked down Wuhan after that and seemingly have tamped it down in their country.  But early on, they (The Government of China) wanted to act to the rest of the world like nothing was wrong.  That is why they keep the origin emphasis on.  For now, it won't be addressed.  Years from now, I hope we and UN look at this and put things in place to better stem the next outbreak faster.  To do that will likely require tough action on the nation of Origin this time for their lack of initial action to protect and contain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



China is run by an evil dictatorship that silenced the doctors who tried to sound the alarm in a political miscalculation. They're the problem - not average Chinese citizens.

It's unfortunate that some Chinese people living in the west get harassed by a few jerks, but if we really think we're going to stop isolated jerks on the streets by calling the virus by an acronym, we're kidding ourselves.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## machski (Mar 18, 2020)

trackbiker said:


> You missed the whole point. By his being vindictive toward China he is causing ignorant people to attack innocent people just because of their race. A President should lead for the good of the country. There are other ways he can "get back" at China without creating another "other".


I see your point, not being ignorant myself, I understood the President was refering to the Government and not the populance/ethnicity.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

Harvey said:


> This virus was purposely not named with country of origin *to avoid making it easier to divide us.*
> 
> A noble gesture, *easily defeated by a determined adversary*.



You cant talk about this virus in an intelligent manner without mentioning its' origins in the same conversation.  
Thus it is bizarre to say, _"Trump keeps mentioning it came from China"_, unless you want to also point out that literally everyone else who talks about this virus also mentions it came from China.

Also, while I'm sure you dont realize it & arent doing so intentionally, you're parroting Communist Chinese propaganda.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...us-propaganda-campaign-is-putting-lives-risk/


----------



## Edd (Mar 18, 2020)

Well, calling it “Chinese Virus” is technically more accurate than Democratic “hoax” so....points for progress?


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----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

Edd said:


> Well, *calling it* “Chinese Virus” is technically more accurate than* Democratic “hoax”* so....points for progress?



Speaking of people falling for propaganda.......



> What's False. Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, *Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.*



https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/


----------



## Edd (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Speaking of people falling for propaganda.......



https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-is-the-democrats-new-hoax.html


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 18, 2020)

Edd said:


> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-is-the-democrats-new-hoax.html




Well he's not wrong. There are many that are using this as another opportunity to try and take him down rather than unite as a nation and get thru this


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

Edd said:


> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trump-says-the-coronavirus-is-the-democrats-new-hoax.html




It's typically useful to actually read the links you post to defend your argument.  Like in this case, where you posted a story that refutes what you're saying.

And especially when the title disagrees entirely with the story itself in an intentionally confusingly ambiguous manner.  Gee, I wonder why.


----------



## Edd (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's typically useful to actually read the links you post to defend your argument.  Like in this case, where you posted a story that refutes what you're saying.
> 
> And especially when the title disagrees entirely with the story itself in an intentionally confusingly ambiguous manner.  Gee, I wonder why.



He’s pretty cool. 


https://youtu.be/G5TZ6fTYrsE


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

Edd said:


> He’s pretty cool.



You could just be an adult, admit you simply fell for a false narrative, and move on.

But I guess not.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 18, 2020)

Edd said:


> He’s pretty cool.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/G5TZ6fTYrsE



Those edited youtube clips are very reliable sources of information


----------



## Edd (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> You could just be an adult, admit you simply fell for a false narrative, and move on.
> 
> But I guess not.



No need to get personal. I wouldn’t presume to believe I could convince you of anything.


----------



## Pez (Mar 18, 2020)

from liberal hoax joke to pandemic that he knew about all along in about a week.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

Edd said:


> * I wouldn’t presume to believe I could convince you of anything*.



Well you're certainly not going to "convince" me of a partisan political fraud which has already been copiously debunked.


----------



## RichT (Mar 18, 2020)

And here on AlpineZone I was hopping politics wouldn't show it's ugly face............


----------



## skiur (Mar 18, 2020)

RichT said:


> And here on AlpineZone I was hopping politics wouldn't show it's ugly face............



Where have you been?  The no politics rule went out the window months ago!


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 18, 2020)

skiur said:


> Where have you been?  The no politics rule went out the window months ago!



Because of very few people in charge of that enforcement wise.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 18, 2020)

Hard to talk about skiing when nobody is doing it and what's going on in the country.  Probably should just turn off the news, internet and phone if you dont like what you're seeing


----------



## JimG. (Mar 18, 2020)

I think I see where this is going.

It's sad how some are so determined to prove their point of view and yet refuse to see we are in this together whether we like it or not.


----------



## p_levert (Mar 19, 2020)

Another reason to get an Ikon pass:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...turning-home?srnd=premium&winst=37347680&of=0

Sucks for our Mexican brothers and sisters.  Glad I was at A-Basin and WP over the same period.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 19, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Another reason to get an Ikon pass:
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...turning-home?srnd=premium&winst=37347680&of=0
> 
> Sucks for our Mexican brothers and sisters.  Glad I was at A-Basin and WP over the same period.




That's a pretty foolish line of thinking, but hey whatever floats your boat


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 20, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Well you're certainly not going to "convince" me of a partisan political fraud which has already been copiously debunked.


Are you honestly on here trying to defend Trump and this administration's actions? Or are you just arguing about semantics over whether or not he called the whole thing a Democratic hoax?


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 20, 2020)

trump just ripped a reporter a new asshole for asking what the message should be to people who are scared. he's such a douche.


----------



## skiur (Mar 20, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> trump just ripped a reporter a new asshole for asking what the message should be to people who are scared. he's such a douche.



I think even his strongest supporters know he is a douche....I grew up in NY and the guy was always a douche.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 20, 2020)

he was our harmless ha ha doucebag in this city for decades. not so funny now.


----------



## thetrailboss (Mar 20, 2020)

Meanwhile, back on topic.....

Vail has ordered its employees in company housing to leave immediately.  Seems pretty clear that ski season is over for them.


----------



## Tonyr (Mar 20, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Meanwhile, back on topic.....
> 
> Vail has ordered its employees in company housing to leave immediately.  Seems pretty clear that ski season is over for them.



I'm hearing that Killington isn't going to reopen in May either. Looks like they are done for the year too.


----------



## p_levert (Mar 20, 2020)

Austrian ski town is another nexus of contamination:

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-austrian-ski-town-that-spread-coronavirus-across-the-continent/

When I was in CO, I skied at Eldora, A-Basin and WP (I have an Ikon pass).  If I had skied at Keystone, Breck and Vail, I think I would have had a higher chance of getting CV-19.  Why?  The proportion of out-of-state skiers is higher at the Vail resorts than the Ikon resorts, AFAIK.


----------



## Edd (Mar 20, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Austrian ski town is another nexus of contamination:
> 
> https://www.politico.eu/article/the-austrian-ski-town-that-spread-coronavirus-across-the-continent/
> 
> When I was in CO, I skied at Eldora, A-Basin and WP (I have an Ikon pass).  If I had skied at Keystone, Breck and Vail, I think I would have had a higher chance of getting CV-19.  Why?  The proportion of out-of-state skiers is higher at the Vail resorts than the Ikon resorts, AFAIK.



I’m actually aware of a New Hampshire resident that tested positive following a ski trip to Austria. 

Is your Ikon vs Vail claim simply anecdotal?


----------



## EPB (Mar 20, 2020)

Edd said:


> I’m actually aware of a New Hampshire resident that tested positive following a ski trip to Austria.
> 
> Is your Ikon vs Vail claim simply anecdotal?


I saw a Bloomberg article on a bunch of wealthy Mexicans getting it at Vail this morning. It should come up with a quick Google search.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Edd (Mar 20, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> I saw a Bloomberg article on a bunch of wealthy Mexicans getting it at Vail this morning. It should come up with a quick Google search.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



I saw that article also. Just curious as it seems plenty of Ikon areas are destination resorts. Shit, I was at Steamboat in January and Italy in September but I haven’t been sick in I don’t know how long.


----------



## EPB (Mar 20, 2020)

Edd said:


> I saw that article also. Just curious as it seems plenty of Ikon areas are destination resorts. Shit, I was at Steamboat in January and Italy in September but I haven’t been sick in I don’t know how long.


I'm sure they are. I certainly don't have stats on where people come from when they visit resorts.

Anecdotally, I've noticed two trends:

-Vail is the only place where I've seen a significant % of Hispanic clientele.
-Whistler and Banff/Louise have a ton of visitors from the land down under.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 20, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Austrian ski town is another nexus of contamination:
> 
> https://www.politico.eu/article/the-austrian-ski-town-that-spread-coronavirus-across-the-continent/
> 
> When I was in CO, I skied at Eldora, A-Basin and WP (I have an Ikon pass).  If I had skied at Keystone, Breck and Vail, I think I would have had a higher chance of getting CV-19.  Why?  The proportion of out-of-state skiers is higher at the Vail resorts than the Ikon resorts, AFAIK.




Unless you drove and slept in your own car,, brought your own prepackaged food and wore and N95 mask the whole time while following stringent hygiene practices, odds are you were potentially exposed to it even if you didnt go to a Vail mountain, especially if you traveled on a plane or used public transportation


----------



## p_levert (Mar 20, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Unless you drove and slept in your own car,, brought your own prepackaged food and wore and N95 mask the whole time while following stringent hygiene practices, odds are you were potentially exposed to it even if you didnt go to a Vail mountain, especially if you traveled on a plane or used public transportation



I went to the Ikon resorts because I own an Ikon pass, not because I was trying to avoid CV-19.  OTOH, upon reflection, it does seem to me that Vail resorts have a higher % of out-of-state skiers, thus the risk would be proportionately higher, as these people fly in.  I don't have hard data, but this is my personal observation.  There's a ton of out-of-state people at Steamboat, an Ikon resort, so it would seem that this would be a good place to get CV-19 as well.  Just saying, not sure what your angle on this is.


----------



## machski (Mar 20, 2020)

Vail has mentioned in their filings of expected losses that they will be reconsidering all the announced lift installs for next season.  Can't imagine they are the only ones.  To me, the only lift installs likely to be unaffected financially anyway might be the HSQ and T-Bar and Saddleback.  But who knows if Arctaris cut the check already or if they may be in less of a position to make the investments.  Given they opened pass sales, I'll lean that they will be ok.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## crystalmountainskier (Mar 20, 2020)

machski said:


> Vail has mentioned in their filings of expected losses that they will be reconsidering all the announced lift installs for next season.  Can't imagine they are the only ones.  To me, the only lift installs likely to be unaffected financially anyway might be the HSQ and T-Bar and Saddleback.  But who knows if Arctaris cut the check already or if they may be in less of a position to make the investments.  Given they opened pass sales, I'll lean that they will be ok.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Saddleback is only doing the high speed quad.  No new T-Bar this year.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 20, 2020)

Just saw my friends pictures on facecrap of military &#55357;&#56986; in NYC
Sad that it came to this


----------



## prsboogie (Mar 20, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> Just saw my friends pictures on facecrap of military &#55357;&#56986; in NYC
> Sad that it came to this


Sad it came to this? It wouldn't have if people would have done what the hell they were asked to do instead of thinking "it isn't going to affect me"! The bars were packed all weekend everywhere despite everyone being asked to limit public gatherings.

Now their getting what they deserve. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 20, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Sad it came to this?* It wouldn't have if people would have done what the hell they were asked to do instead of thinking "it isn't going to affect me"! The bars were packed all weekend everywhere* despite everyone being asked to limit public gatherings.



Amen.  If people would just take this **** seriously, especially people in their 20s, we'd be doing fine.  We learned from South Korea that the biggest problem is 20 somethings to early 30s folks who arent compliant. 

 For several straight days the WH & CDC begged young people not to congregate, yet we see these Saint Patrick's Day, Bourbon Street, packed beach scenes etc...  It's really disheartening.  Some of them are going to unknowingly kill grandma.



prsboogie said:


> Now *their getting what they deserve.*



You lost me here though.


----------



## Keelhauled (Mar 20, 2020)

The National Guard was activated in New Rochelle a week or so ago.  Not really surprising you might their presence expand by now.  Army tanks are not rolling through Times Square...


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 20, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Sad it came to this? It wouldn't have if people would have done what the hell they were asked to do instead of thinking "it isn't going to affect me"! The bars were packed all weekend everywhere despite everyone being asked to limit public gatherings.
> 
> Now their getting what they deserve.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Yes they are getting what they deserve.  Unfortunately many responsible people get screwed in the process


----------



## JimG. (Mar 20, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Now their getting what they deserve.



You mean we're all getting what they deserve.

I have a real lack of respect for the utter selfishness and downright stupidity of the way people are acting, not following guidelines because somehow they feel they are special. I view humanity in general and many people I know much differently today as opposed to a week ago.

Really disgusted today.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 20, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Sad it came to this? It wouldn't have if people would have done what the hell they were asked to do instead of thinking "it isn't going to affect me"! The bars were packed all weekend everywhere despite everyone being asked to limit public gatherings.
> 
> Now their getting what they deserve.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



I been self isolation for weeks now


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## prsboogie (Mar 21, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Amen.  If people would just take this **** seriously, especially people in their 20s, we'd be doing fine.  We learned from South Korea that the biggest problem is 20 somethings to early 30s folks who arent compliant.
> 
> For several straight days the WH & CDC begged young people not to congregate, yet we see these Saint Patrick's Day, Bourbon Street, packed beach scenes etc...  It's really disheartening.  Some of them are going to unknowingly kill grandma.
> 
> ...



Mandatory lockdowns

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## deadheadskier (Mar 21, 2020)

Spoke with my folks in Sarasota, Florida.  I don't know if it's a state wide ban, but they had heard all the beaches around them were closing today

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## Smellytele (Mar 21, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Spoke with my folks in Sarasota, Florida.  I don't know if it's a state wide ban, but they had heard all the beaches around them were closing today
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



I thought I saw that the governor was closing all beaches as the spring breakers were ignoring warnings of large gatherings.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 21, 2020)

desantis closed th beaches yesterday. those spring break kids are a special kind of terrible.


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## prsboogie (Mar 21, 2020)

Friday Ft Myers Beach was packed according to my in-laws 

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## Glenn (Mar 22, 2020)

I read Clearwater beach closes tomorrow. Some where questioning why they didn't close it sooner.


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> now we're getting what they deserve.



fify

EDIT: Sorry I see that several others posted the same.


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

Glenn said:


> I read Clearwater beach closes tomorrow. Some where questioning why they didn't close it sooner.



Money?


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

JimG. said:


> You mean we're all getting what they deserve.
> 
> I have a real lack of respect for the utter selfishness and downright stupidity of the way people are acting, not following guidelines because somehow they feel they are special. I view humanity in general and many people I know much differently today as opposed to a week ago.
> 
> Really disgusted today.



Maybe we (you and I) should shut down our TR forums.

I haven't done that yet, but I'm not following our normal practice of sharing TRs on social media.

We've got new members joining who want to learn about uphill travel.

Jay Peak barricaded their access road. Good move Steve.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 22, 2020)

Harvey said:


> Maybe we (you and I) should shut down our TR forums.
> 
> I haven't done that yet, but I'm not following our normal practice of sharing TRs on social media.
> 
> ...




Yes people don't seem to understand or realize how bad it is for everyone
I’m going to update my page as much as I can with real updates for the 518.  
This one is a little personal. I’ve been a doctor for over ten years and have never felt like “this”. I had to cancel my sweet 4 year olds birthday party today. She was so excited. But what’s that compared to my patient who had to cancel her 250 person wedding today. But then again, those can be rescheduled and they are trivial compared to those having to fight this virus. I’m worried about some of my close physician friends, right here in Albany, who are now positive for the virus. That’s right... I said friends, plural. I’m worried about some of my patientS who tested positive this week. I’m worried for myself. At first we were told we should wear N95 masks, surgical masks don’t work. We ran out. Now we are told, wear surgical masks. Now we are running out. The CDC said homemade masks don’t work, now they say make a homemade mask or wear a bandana around your face... wait-that doesn’t work! &#55357;&#56876; At least I can send anyone for testing at sight of their first symptom...wrong! That was before all the local testing sites ran out of tests and out of the 100s of calls my office has been getting,  we couldn’t send one person for a test yesterday. This is bad. I’m not trying to scare you. I’m just speaking the truth to help even one patient realize the importance of staying home. I beg you to stay home. Be bored, run around your yards, breathe the fresh air into your healthy lungs and don’t get this.  You won’t get it from staying home. This is the only way this nightmare can end. To all my wonderful patients, I’m happy to do a phone visit or telemedicine visit with you, even if you just want to check in because you too are scared. Life will get back to normal but the better you follow this stay home rule, the quicker it will! You don’t want to have to go to this Albany Med testing site (once they get more tests!!) &#55357;&#56469;


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## Cornhead (Mar 22, 2020)

Idk, skinning up, and skiing down, a closed hill doesn't seem irresponsible to me. Is it any more irresponsible than going for a hike? Acquiring groceries seems much more dangerous as far a spreading the virus goes. I understand that buying groceries is a necessity, and skiing is not, but there is a mental, and physical, health aspect that is important to maintain in these scary times. A lot more responsible than partying on a crowded beach, that's for sure.

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## icecoast1 (Mar 22, 2020)

I dont see how skinning up a ski hill is any different than going for a hike, run, bike ride etc as long as you are keeping your distance from people.


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

I'd say if it really close to you, and the hill is ok with it, make your own decision. But don't post about it on social media. Don't encourage a guy from say Boston to drive into NH.

Ask yourself, and answer honestly... why am I posting this?


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## Smellytele (Mar 22, 2020)

Harvey said:


> I'd say if it really close to you, and the hill is ok with it, make your own decision. But don't post about it on social media.
> 
> Ask yourself, and answer honestly... why am I posting this?




To show that you can be responsible and not totally freakout and still have a life in a responsible way. Even if I drive 3 hours skin and get in my car and drive home who am I affecting?


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

You're affecting me. I want to drive to my place in the adk and hike our land and skin Gore.  I'll have to make at least two stops on the way, and shop in the grocery store every day.

I'm not going to do it. But I really want to.

Looks at the places that are succeeding at reducing the numbers.  They are doing some insane shit.

I'm not freaking out and I don't see others freaking out either. I'm doing my best to follow what the medical pros are telling me.


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## Edd (Mar 22, 2020)

Seems like there’s a safe way to head north to a place you own. Wherever you’re getting groceries now, take a supply with you for the trip. Leave with a full tank of gas. If you must stop for gas, just use plastic at the pump wearing gloves. 


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## Smellytele (Mar 22, 2020)

Harvey said:


> You're affecting me. I want to drive to my place in the adk and hike our land and skin Gore.  I'll have to make at least two stops on the way, and shop in the grocery store every day.
> 
> I'm not going to do it. But I really want to.
> 
> ...



Just how do I affect you? I am not near anyone or touching anything but my own stuff. You're freaking out if you believe you need to be locked in your bunker and can't even drive in your car to a place where no one else is.


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

We have a camp, about 200 sq ft. Our fridge is tiny, can't hold more than a days worth of food. No real kitchen.  We primarily eat out when we go up to ski.  Restaurants are closed.

Our friends in the mountains are anxious about all of the second home owners who are coming to town.  These are my best friends, far more so than people we know in the flatlands.  I don't want to add to their stress. I want to support them.


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

OK you're not really affecting me, but I'm trying to make the point that you are modeling behavior that is currently against what authorities are suggesting.  Hope it all stays suggested, and not punishable by law.


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## Smellytele (Mar 22, 2020)

Harvey said:


> OK you're not really affecting me, but I'm trying to make the point that you are modeling behavior that is currently against what authorities are suggesting.  Hope it all stays suggested, and not punishable by law.



From everything I have read outdoor solitary exercise with social distancing is being suggested and encouraged not being squelched. Skinning to me is the perfect example of this so giving this suggestion to others will help them in choosing a responsible activity that does not put others at risk.


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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2020)

Totally agree about skinning. No different from the walks we are taking every day. Surely more people walking here than skinning whereever.

It's the driving/travel to another community that I think is against recommendations.


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## Not Sure (Mar 22, 2020)

Harvey said:


> OK you're not really affecting me, but I'm trying to make the point that you are modeling behavior that is currently against what authorities are suggesting.  Hope it all stays suggested, and not punishable by law.



I don't mind reading responsible trip reports ,kind of nice but snow is dwindling even up north . Reading some TGR reports Vt seems lousy anyway . New snow will help , I imagine the national park system is shut down so White Mountains will be off limits ? Tucks sees a lot of people in a little space area , Hojos and Lunch rocks .  

I'm spending today making a home maintenance list of things that I've been neglecting for a long time .Planning on a home blitz this week . It's  nice to spend some time in the evening reading TR's . Maybe more people will be inspired to buy touring equipment in the future ? 

Yesterday my wife got a call from a doctors office she visited on Monday ,someone tested positive either a patient or staff but due to Hippa they wouldn't say . Last night she had a low grade fever , this morning it's gone but we're a bit concerned about my elderly mother who lives with us .


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## kbroderick (Mar 22, 2020)

Edd said:


> Seems like there’s a safe way to head north to a place you own. Wherever you’re getting groceries now, take a supply with you for the trip. Leave with a full tank of gas. If you must stop for gas, just use plastic at the pump wearing gloves.



If you burn anywhere near that much gas, you're increasing the need to fill up; if you start with a full tank and don't drive north, that full tank is going to last a lot longer, thus reducing the number of gas-station visits a potential contamination opportunities. And that's just for starters, assuming you can manage the rest of the trip without any contact. *You*, personally, may be able to do all of that without a significant increase in community risk (let's put it at 0.1% for spitball purposes); a couple hundred like-minded with the same plan suddenly makes that cumulative risk increase statistically significant (in the 10%+ range if the risk is summative, but it's probably more multiplicative and higher than that), and that's before you get into the dismissive or brain-dead people who think that sounds like a good idea and then park right next to you in the ski-area parking lot or call your dog over while you're trying to ascend and maintain distance.

There are also a lot of people asking newbie-to-earning-turns types questions now. While I understand their desire to get out, it is not a good time to be learning a new activity, because a minor injury is a much bigger deal when the health-care system is being overwhelmed by a pandemic. For people with experience with backcountry travel and managing the risks associated with it, getting out for mellow outings (i.e. explicitly choosing low-risk terrain) in their local areas seems reasonable.

From a personal perspective, I'm going to continue skinning and going out on my fishscale tele setup, but I can do that within a 10-minute drive from home. I probably won't be driving the 30-45 minutes over to ski Tuckerman Ravine (or anything else on Mt. Washington) this spring both because of the increased risk of being in a truly alpine environment and because the geographic draw of Mt. Washington makes it a likely viral spread point (even if you draw a circle around Pinkham that extends to a 45-minute drive, and then extend that out to the local shopping radius around the grocery stores frequented by the people in that 45-minute drive, you're talking about three states and who knows how many distinct communities).

So by all means, get outside, but *​please do it locally.*


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## kbroderick (Mar 22, 2020)

Edd said:


> Seems like there’s a safe way to head north to a place you own. Wherever you’re getting groceries now, take a supply with you for the trip. Leave with a full tank of gas. If you must stop for gas, just use plastic at the pump wearing gloves.



If you burn anywhere near that much gas, you're increasing the need to fill up; if you start with a full tank and don't drive north, that full tank is going to last a lot longer, thus reducing the number of gas-station visits a potential contamination opportunities. And that's just for starters, assuming you can manage the rest of the trip without any contact. *You*, personally, may be able to do all of that without a significant increase in community risk (let's put it at 0.1% for spitball purposes); a couple hundred like-minded with the same plan suddenly makes that cumulative risk increase statistically significant (in the 10%+ range if the risk is summative, but it's probably more multiplicative and higher than that), and that's before you get into the dismissive or brain-dead people who think that sounds like a good idea and then park right next to you in the ski-area parking lot or call your dog over while you're trying to ascend and maintain distance.

There are also a lot of people asking newbie-to-earning-turns types questions now. While I understand their desire to get out, it is not a good time to be learning a new activity, because a minor injury is a much bigger deal when the health-care system is being overwhelmed by a pandemic. For people with experience with backcountry travel and managing the risks associated with it, getting out for mellow outings (i.e. explicitly choosing low-risk terrain) in their local areas seems reasonable.

From a personal perspective, I'm going to continue skinning and going out on my fishscale tele setup, but I can do that within a 10-minute drive from home. I probably won't be driving the 30-45 minutes over to ski Tuckerman Ravine (or anything else on Mt. Washington) this spring both because of the increased risk of being in a truly alpine environment and because the geographic draw of Mt. Washington makes it a likely viral spread point (even if you draw a circle around Pinkham that extends to a 45-minute drive, and then extend that out to the local shopping radius around the grocery stores frequented by the people in that 45-minute drive, you're talking about three states and who knows how many distinct communities).

So by all means, get outside, but *​please do it locally.*


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 22, 2020)

In my age cohort I'll die from being infected by virtue signalling long before I die from coronavirus.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 22, 2020)

If Cuomo is right about the quarantine going on for months, we all, or at least New Yorkers have a bigger chance of dying from mental insanity and anarchy then the coronavirus


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## thebigo (Mar 22, 2020)

kbroderick said:


> So by all means, get outside, but *​please do it locally.*



We live < 1 mile from a state park, we either hike or swim in the park most every day we do not ski. Yesterday there were more cars at the various trailheads than anytime since we built the house ten years ago. Even the obscure trails, where you are typically more likely to encounter a bear than person, had dozens of cars. I found myself getting pissed at the greater than 50% out of state plates and we are nowhere near the state line. Not much we can do except hike elsewhere, fortunately there is a 2000 acre woodlot down the road that only locals would know about.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 22, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> If Cuomo is right about the quarantine going on for months, we all, or at least New Yorkers have a bigger chance of dying from mental insanity and anarchy then the coronavirus



As I mentioned before, I'm fearing the global response to this is worse than COVID19 itself.


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## Bosco DaSkia (Mar 22, 2020)




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## Bosco DaSkia (Mar 22, 2020)




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## Bosco DaSkia (Mar 22, 2020)




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## RichT (Mar 22, 2020)

OK, our government is asking us to stay home! What pert of that do people now understand?

STAY THE FUCK HOME!!!!!!!!


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## icecoast1 (Mar 22, 2020)

RichT said:


> OK, our government is asking us to stay home! What pert of that do people now understand?
> 
> STAY THE FUCK HOME!!!!!!!!



People arent going to have a choice with the National Guard coming into town now.


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## RichT (Mar 22, 2020)

I too have second home...............i'm staying put, but man it is painful to know I could be up in the fresh air.


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## Los (Mar 22, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> As I mentioned before, I'm fearing the global response to this is worse than COVID19 itself.



I agree. After giving it considerable thought, there is no longer any doubt in my mind that the response is FAR worse than the disease. It seems a two or three week lockdown makes sense to slow the onslaught and allow our health care system to prepare the best it can. And it seems that the elderly and immuno-compromised will need to practice social distancing for at least the mid-term. But after the short term lockdown, everyone else needs to get back to work, follow CDC recommedations as best as possible, and just let this damn thing run its course. The alternative - destroying our economy and destabilizing our socio-political order - is absolutely unnecessary and unacceptable.


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## Los (Mar 22, 2020)

Bosco DaSkia said:


>



Oh my god - hahaha I literally laughed out loud seeing that.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 22, 2020)

Los said:


> I agree. After giving it considerable thought, there is no longer any doubt in my mind that the response is FAR worse than the disease. It seems a two or three week lockdown makes sense to slow the onslaught and allow our health care system to prepare the best it can. And it seems that the elderly and immuno-compromised will need to practice social distancing for at least the mid-term. But after the short term lockdown, everyone else needs to get back to work, follow CDC recommedations as best as possible, and just let this damn thing run its course. The alternative - destroying our economy and destabilizing our socio-political order - is absolutely unnecessary and unacceptable.



I agree, although sadly I dont see it ending after just a couple weeks.  The governor of NY today announced it could go on for several months. Fauci has said multiple times he thinks it's going to take at least several weeks of quarantining . The only thing that might save us is if some of these drugs prove to be useful as a treatment or preventative measure, they're starting trials of some this week in New York.  Once theres some form of treatment or prevention, society might start to go back to normal


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## JimG. (Mar 22, 2020)

Harvey said:


> Maybe we (you and I) should shut down our TR forums.
> 
> I haven't done that yet, but I'm not following our normal practice of sharing TRs on social media.
> 
> ...



I went fishing yesterday. My favorite spot was empty but the popular areas were packed and people were trout fishing shoulder to shoulder. I've never seen anything like it!

I won't preach or lobby for sanity people will do what they do. Many don't seem to care about the greater good.


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 23, 2020)

fishing shoulder to shoulder is miserable.   There is literally no fun to that.  Forget social distancing...


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## JimG. (Mar 23, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> fishing shoulder to shoulder is miserable.   There is literally no fun to that.  Forget social distancing...



Absolutely; I kind of prepared myself driving over it would be that way and sadly it was. The whole point to going was to have some alone time outdoors. I'll post a trip report later.


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## thebigo (Mar 23, 2020)

Looks like the wildcat, attitash and crotched webcams were taken down. Is that a vail thing or a virus thing?


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## Rowsdower (Mar 23, 2020)

thebigo said:


> Looks like the wildcat, attitash and crotched webcams were taken down. Is that a vail thing or a virus thing?



JFBB was still up today.

It might be they didn't want people all mobbing closed areas looking to hike for turns. Conditions up there are really bad. Super icy, and a few inches of snow on top of ice is a recipe for people to get seriously injured. With no ski patrol present, it creates a problem for the local first responders to say nothing of breaking social distancing practices by potentially having a big gathering of people including those from out of town who may have driven several hours across state lines to get there.


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## catskillman (Mar 24, 2020)

thebigo said:


> Looks like the wildcat, attitash and crotched webcams were taken down. Is that a vail thing or a virus thing?



earlier in the week, Hunter had only the base webcam down, the others were still working.  Now all 4 are down..


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## icecoast1 (Mar 24, 2020)

catskillman said:


> earlier in the week, Hunter had only the base webcam down, the others were still working.  Now all 4 are down..



Probably trying to stop the masses from seeing all the snow and going to the mountain


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## kingslug (Mar 24, 2020)

And sliding down the ice.
People are considering going to Tuckermans which is super dangerouse now...people who have never been there...


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## drjeff (Mar 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> And sliding down the ice.
> People are considering going to Tuckermans which is super dangerouse now...people who have never been there...


I suspect that there's a greater than 50/50 chance we hear of avalanches and injuries (maybe not related to an avalanche) from Tuckerman's in the next few days...

The snow conditions are very hazardous, and the ignorance of some (both in terms of back country awareness and ability level as well as lack of public health awareness for traveling there in the 1st place likely from geographically afar in many cases) and their pent up demand need (or more like selfish choices rather than actual need) is the recipe for trouble....

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## Whitey (Mar 24, 2020)

Los said:


> I agree. After giving it considerable thought, there is no longer any doubt in my mind that the response is FAR worse than the disease. It seems a two or three week lockdown makes sense to slow the onslaught and allow our health care system to prepare the best it can. And it seems that the elderly and immuno-compromised will need to practice social distancing for at least the mid-term. But after the short term lockdown, everyone else needs to get back to work, follow CDC recommedations as best as possible, and just let this damn thing run its course. The alternative - destroying our economy and destabilizing our socio-political order - is absolutely unnecessary and unacceptable.



Well said, Los.    

We need to isolate the most vulnerable, not the entire population.   Months of this would result in economic devastation that no one alive has ever seen (except for a couple of 100+ yrs olds who were youngsters during the great depression).


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## Smellytele (Mar 24, 2020)

Olympics postponed 


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 24, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Olympics postponed
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I think it’s fair to assume that everything until at least May is cancelled and any following events that require prep before mid May will also be cancelled. I’m predicting late April and May to be when everything starts to return to normal and the economy will start to slowly rebuild. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cdskier (Mar 24, 2020)

Nearly all of Sugarbush's webcams are still up. Looks like the Castlerock one is the only one offline. Quite a few people visible on the cams on the mountain right now.


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## mbedle (Mar 24, 2020)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsn...GlcnSU3RTnt3fPTp8Jnq_IJjYm8aHe-QQ&app=desktop

Do Not Go To Turkermans....


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## kendo (Mar 24, 2020)

catskillman said:


> earlier in the week, Hunter had only the base webcam down, the others were still working.  Now all 4 are down..



Hunter took down the web cam link on the website menus, but looks like they're still online here:

https://www.huntermtn.com/web-cams/

Base cam is gone.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 24, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I think it’s fair to assume that everything until at least May is cancelled and any following events that require prep before mid May will also be cancelled. I’m predicting late April and May to be when everything starts to return to normal and the economy will start to slowly rebuild.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



U should buy few buy a lottery ticket 
Better chance of u winning lottery then anything open by May
This will have huge implications on everything for long time
I hope I wrong


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## thetrailboss (Mar 24, 2020)

This is why ski resorts are closed:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/europe/austria-ski-resort-ischgl-coronavirus-intl/index.html


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## skiur (Mar 24, 2020)

https://www.killington.com/the-mountain/webcams/mountain

Killingtons webcams are all up.


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## JimG. (Mar 24, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> This is why ski resorts are closed:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/europe/austria-ski-resort-ischgl-coronavirus-intl/index.html



Yeah I read this same article today. These people are idiots, the part about playing beer pong by spitting a ping pong ball out of your mouth into cups of beer other people drank and also sharing spitty ping pong balls proves they are idiots.


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## drjeff (Mar 24, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Yeah I read this same article today. These people are idiots, the part about playing beer pong by spitting a ping pong ball out of your mouth into cups of beer other people drank and also sharing spitty ping pong balls proves they are idiots.


Unfortunately my hunch is over the next 7-10 days we're going to see isolated (hopefully isolated atleast) bumps in new cases that will epidemiologically be traced back to Spring break antics....

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## VTKilarney (Mar 24, 2020)

One vulnerability the Northeast ski market may have is that it is so dependent on New York City - and New York City looks like it is going to bear the brunt of this virus.

If I were thinking about locating a business somewhere, New York City would be low on my list.  The second tier cities are looking much better right now.


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## Smellytele (Mar 24, 2020)

VTKilarney said:


> One vulnerability the Northeast ski market may have is that it is so dependent on New York City - and New York City looks like it is going to bear the brunt of this virus.
> 
> If I were thinking about locating a business somewhere, New York City would be low on my list.  The second tier cities are looking much better right now.



Maine and NH not so much as VT (obviously NY as well)


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## JimG. (Mar 24, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Unfortunately my hunch is over the next 7-10 days we're going to see isolated (hopefully isolated atleast) bumps in new cases that will epidemiologically be traced back to Spring break antics....
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



More ignorant morons! 

On another note I had a routine visit with my doctor today. A follow up on a surgical procedure.

The parking lot and the office were virtually empty. He works in a large practice, Caremount Medical. He told me that if the shutdown lasts 3 months they will go out of business. 

So the economy shutdown will end sooner than later unless we want healthcare to stop.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 25, 2020)

JimG. said:


> More ignorant morons!
> 
> On another note I had a routine visit with my doctor today. A follow up on a surgical procedure.
> 
> ...


I don't agree. Though it would certainly hurt private/small practices and may force them out of business.
However, the bailout/stimulus package being discussed/passed will help fix stuff a bit.


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## thebigo (Mar 25, 2020)

JimG. said:


> On another note I had a routine visit with my doctor today. A follow up on a surgical procedure.
> 
> The parking lot and the office were virtually empty. He works in a large practice, Caremount Medical. He told me that if the shutdown lasts 3 months they will go out of business.
> 
> So the economy shutdown will end sooner than later unless we want healthcare to stop.



In our small corner of NH, elective beds are being transitioned to CCU beds. Elective staff are being optioned to reassign or take leave. Reassignment is broad and may include another facility, cleaning, transition or greeting.

One of the major problems is going to be lack of advance directives. Everyone, especially those in the high risk pool, should make sure they have their advance directives in place. Failing to do so will put health care workers and neighbors at risk; it will also put family in an unnecessary and terrible position.


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## machski (Mar 25, 2020)

While not in use yet, Manchester has already converted the SNHU center into a lower level hospital ward, saving full hospital beds for the most ill.  Still hasn't gotten close to needing that yet (last report was only 108 confirmed cases in state with a 13% hospitalization rate), but it is set up already and ready.  Now, if Manchester NH could do that, how has NYC not been able to do something similar on their own?  You know, big, high taxed city and bigger, much higher taxed state and all???

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## icecoast1 (Mar 25, 2020)

machski said:


> Now, if Manchester NH could do that, how has NYC not been able to do something similar on their own?  You know, big, high taxed city and bigger, much higher taxed state and all???
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app




Too much government beauracracy and a lot more cases all at once due to population density


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 25, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Too much government beauracracy and a lot more cases all at once due to population density



New York State also declined the advice of their medical advisors who told them they didnt have enough ventilators.   So there's that, which seems pretty relevant, but really isnt getting any attention.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-di...rtage-leaders-chose-not-to-prep-for-pandemic/


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## fbrissette (Mar 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> New York State also declined the advice of their medical advisors who told them they didnt have enough ventilators.   So there's that, which seems pretty relevant, but really isnt getting any attention.
> 
> https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-di...rtage-leaders-chose-not-to-prep-for-pandemic/




No country/state/province/city is going to stock half a billion $ worth of ventilators just in case.  In addition, ventilators is just one of the many things which would be needed to prepare for a pandemic.  Ventilators would be useless for an haemorrhagic ebola-like fever for example.   This link is just a terrible, tendentious piece of crap.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2020)

machski said:


> While not in use yet, Manchester has already converted the SNHU center into a lower level hospital ward, saving full hospital beds for the most ill.  Still hasn't gotten close to needing that yet (last report was only 108 confirmed cases in state with a 13% hospitalization rate), but it is set up already and ready.  Now, if Manchester NH could do that, how has NYC not been able to do something similar on their own?  You know, big, high taxed city and bigger, much higher taxed state and all???
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


They are. It's already done at the Jacob Javitz Center.  Others will be online soon

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> No country/state/province/city is going to stock half a billion $ worth of ventilators just in case.  In addition, ventilators is just one of the many things which would be needed to prepare for a pandemic.  Ventilators would be useless for an haemorrhagic ebola-like fever for example.   This link is just a terrible, tendentious piece of crap.



While I agree the NY Post is certainly not a partisan free source of info, it is clear that in the US where healthcare is run as a for profit industry that doctor's recommendations are the last to be considered. Healthcare here is run by insurance companies and hospital administrators charged with producing profit for shareholders.

Which is why I will no longer buy health insurance after my youngest son graduates from college. Concierge medicine for me and my wife after that.


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## Smellytele (Mar 25, 2020)

machski said:


> While not in use yet, Manchester has already converted the SNHU center into a lower level hospital ward, saving full hospital beds for the most ill.  Still hasn't gotten close to needing that yet (last report was only 108 confirmed cases in state with a 13% hospitalization rate), but it is set up already and ready.  Now, if Manchester NH could do that, how has NYC not been able to do something similar on their own?  You know, big, high taxed city and bigger, much higher taxed state and all???
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Too busy blaming trump to actually do something on their own. ( I am not a trump supporter just hate hearing Cuomo whine)


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 25, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> *No* country/*state*/province/city is *going to stock half a billion $ worth of ventilators* just in case.



I don't disagree with you that they might not have done the full bag of potatoes, and I also recognize that the folks who do things like pandemic prep often (if not usually) go overboard, but there's a happy medium between not taking their expert advice on the full bag of potatoes, and pretty much doing absolutely nothing.  

Even if New York bought 1/3 of the recommended medical experts buy, New York State would be in much better shape right now.  Given New York State is spending hundreds-of-millions of dollars on such critical things (sarcasm) like solar panels, that doesnt seem terribly unreasonable.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 25, 2020)

God forbid the power ever went down. Would make all the ventilators nice paperweights. Somebody better come up with a backup plan for the backup plan.


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## Smellytele (Mar 25, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> God forbid the power ever went down. Would make all the ventilators nice paperweights. Somebody better come up with a backup plan for the backup plan.



There is a new thing called a generator 


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## Not Sure (Mar 25, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> God forbid the power ever went down. Would make all the ventilators nice paperweights. Somebody better come up with a backup plan for the backup plan.





That’s a lot on ventilators!!!!! 

Whenever you’re in a hospital if you see a red outlet. That’s emergency power.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 25, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> There is a new thing called a generator
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



That's gonna be a LOT of generators to take care of all those ventilators and other medical equipment. The temporary hospital set-ups probabaly won't have big systems, if any, like real hospitals.


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## kendo (Mar 25, 2020)

_Vail's latest to Epic pass holders.  
_

Over the last couple of weeks, we have seen the world take numerous measures in an effort to contain the spread of COVID-19. For Vail Resorts, that has meant closing all 34 of our North American resorts. That difficult decision was necessary in order to prioritize the health and wellbeing of our employees, our communities and our guests. Since then, our focus has been on supporting guests and employees in returning home, ensuring the safety of everyone staying in our resorts, transitioning all of our corporate services to “work from home,” and now, today, closing our call center due to stay-at-home orders. 

In the midst of all of this, I want you to know that we have not forgotten about you, our pass holders. I have read your emails and comments on social media. I completely understand your frustrations and your concerns about this past season.

*We deeply value the loyalty you have placed with us by purchasing one of our pass products and we are committed to identifying an approach that acknowledges this past season and retains your loyalty for the future.* I ask for your continued patience and understanding as we remain focused on the real-time challenges that COVID-19 is currently presenting to our employees, our communities and our company. *And with many different pass products, we want to ensure that any action takes into consideration all of our pass holders.
*
We intend to reach back out to you with more information by the *end of April*. In the meantime, *we are deferring all auto-renew charges and all spring deadlines for Buddy Tickets into May*.

We sincerely hope that all of you, your friends and your loved ones remain safe during this unprecedented time and that the world comes together to move past the challenges we currently face.

Sincerely,

Kirsten Lynch
EVP and Chief Marketing Officer
Vail Resorts


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## icecoast1 (Mar 25, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> No country/state/province/city is going to stock half a billion $ worth of ventilators just in case.  In addition, ventilators is just one of the many things which would be needed to prepare for a pandemic.  Ventilators would be useless for an haemorrhagic ebola-like fever for example.   This link is just a terrible, tendentious piece of crap.




The ventilators are just one example of the states lack of preparedness.  And if they had listened to the report and stockpiled supplies as they were told they needed vs wasting money on other things, they would have saved money because they wouldn't be paying well over sticker price for everything as they are now.  The state screwed up and now wants the federal government to bail them out


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## machski (Mar 25, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> That's gonna be a LOT of generators to take care of all those ventilators and other medical equipment. The temporary hospital set-ups probabaly won't have big systems, if any, like real hospitals.


The temporary hospitals in NH aren't meant for the advanced, severe cases.  They are designed and set up for lighter cases to unload the full hospitals for the most severely ill.

I was in Teterboro most of last week and while the Javitz center may be up now, they were just debating setting that up last week.  And they were already further along with hospital capacity issues than NH (which, with only about 13 Covid hospitalizations to date, really isn't straining anything as yet).  Just saying.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2020)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> View attachment 26638
> 
> That’s a lot on ventilators!!!!!
> 
> Whenever you’re in a hospital if you see a red outlet. That’s emergency power.



This may not be a popular opinion but I'd much rather NY spend my tax dollars on a Gondola than respirators.


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## fbrissette (Mar 25, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> The ventilators are just one example of the states lack of preparedness.  And if they had listened to the report and stockpiled supplies as they were told they needed vs wasting money on other things, they would have saved money because they wouldn't be paying well over sticker price for everything as they are now.  The state screwed up and now wants the federal government to bail them out


My point is not that should not have prepared.  The point is that if the cost to get prepared is several billions of $ (half a billion just for ventilators) just in case something like this happens, this would be an impossible sell for any politicians.  And you should really ask if these billions of $ would be put to a much better use to save more lives in the mean time.  In addition, the truth is that nobody has prepared for this so blaming New-York is cheap and counterproductive.  It's cheap politics.  There are lots of reasons why New-York is hit first.  It's going to hit the Bible belt eventually and I hope nobody will do cheap politics when their health care system is overloaded.


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> My point is not that should not have prepared.  The point is that if the cost to get prepared is several billions of $ (half a billion just for ventilators) just in case something like this happens, this would be an impossible sell for any politicians.  And you should really ask if these billions of $ would be put to a much better use to save more lives in the mean time.  In addition, the truth is that nobody has prepared for this so blaming New-York is cheap and counterproductive.  It's cheap politics.  There are lots of reasons why New-York is hit first.  It's going to hit the Bible belt eventually and I hope nobody will do cheap politics when their health care system is overloaded.



This is true...the sad fact is that nobody in the USA was prepared for this.

Our "leaders" on both sides of the aisle failed miserably at the most important job they are sworn to do...protect the American people. It seems it's the last thing any of them care about.


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## Smellytele (Mar 25, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> My point is not that should not have prepared.  The point is that if the cost to get prepared is several billions of $ (half a billion just for ventilators) just in case something like this happens, this would be an impossible sell for any politicians.  And you should really ask if these billions of $ would be put to a much better use to save more lives in the mean time.  In addition, the truth is that nobody has prepared for this so blaming New-York is cheap and counterproductive.  It's cheap politics.  There are lots of reasons why New-York is hit first.  It's going to hit the Bible belt eventually and I hope nobody will do cheap politics when their health care system is overloaded.



But cuomo whining about trump not being prepared is counterproductive as well.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> But cuomo whining about trump not being prepared is counterproductive as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I'm tired of hearing from Cuomo as well. Even more annoying is listening to his brother Chris interviewing him on CNN.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 25, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> My point is not that should not have prepared.  The point is that if the cost to get prepared is several billions of $ (half a billion just for ventilators) just in case something like this happens, this would be an impossible sell for any politicians.  And you should really ask if these billions of $ would be put to a much better use to save more lives in the mean time.  In addition, the truth is that nobody has prepared for this so blaming New-York is cheap and counterproductive.  It's cheap politics.  There are lots of reasons why New-York is hit first.  It's going to hit the Bible belt eventually and I hope nobody will do cheap politics when their health care system is overloaded.




It was literally his own health commissioner and a group of experts appointed by the commissioner that told him he wasn't prepared.   You'd think if a group of experts says you're unprepared for a pandemic in your state, you'd at least want to find some happy medium in between doing nothing and the far out scenario the experts came up with.  All the reasons that New York City is getting hit as hard as it is are also all the reasons NY should be better prepared, and prepared in ways other stays might not be.   I'm sure people would generally be supportive of spending more money on disaster preparedness instead of the many other things our tax payer dollars get wasted on in this state.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 25, 2020)

JimG. said:


> This is true...the sad fact is that nobody in the USA was prepared for this.
> 
> Our "leaders" on both sides of the aisle failed miserably at the most important job they are sworn to do...protect the American people. It seems it's the last thing any of them care about.



It's fucken true they care about citizens of USA.
It truth they don't tell is now in my opinion is We are a 3 world country


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2020)

Pandemic preparedness and response should start and end with the Fed because this is a national issue. Hell, its a global issue. Remember, the US was pretty much the reason Ebola didn't get out of control.   

 Do you really want to rely on a poor state such as Mississippi calling their own shots when they can't afford to do the right thing and their inaction might screw everywhere else?  One of our richest states couldn't get it done right and things are going haywire because of it.

The shortage of supplies with PPE and Ventilator technology to have acceptable strategic reserves could very easily be managed through a public/private partnership.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## flakeydog (Mar 25, 2020)

This is very much a federal issue. That way a larger (much larger) pool of resources can be distributed to where it is needed most when it is needed. That is what we do now with most natural disasters. To expect states to independently be prepared for every impending distasteful is incredibly inefficient and just pits one state against another. Oh wait, that’s what we’re doing now with supplies and it’s a train wreck. This state by state BS on what aid you get from the feds, and the commentary that comes with it, has grown old over the last 3 years. In situations like this, we are one nation, not a collection of red and blue states. It would be nice if our leadership saw it that way.


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## drjeff (Mar 26, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Pandemic preparedness and response should start and end with the Fed because this is a national issue. Hell, its a global issue. Remember, the US was pretty much the reason Ebola didn't get out of control.
> 
> Do you really want to rely on a poor state such as Mississippi calling their own shots when they can't afford to do the right thing and their inaction might screw everywhere else?  One of our richest states couldn't get it done right and things are going haywire because of it.
> 
> ...





flakeydog said:


> This is very much a federal issue. That way a larger (much larger) pool of resources can be distributed to where it is needed most when it is needed. That is what we do now with most natural disasters. To expect states to independently be prepared for every impending distasteful is incredibly inefficient and just pits one state against another. Oh wait, that’s what we’re doing now with supplies and it’s a train wreck. This state by state BS on what aid you get from the feds, and the commentary that comes with it, has grown old over the last 3 years. In situations like this, we are one nation, not a collection of red and blue states. It would be nice if our leadership saw it that way.



It needs to be a team effort though.

The states certainly have more intimate knowledge of their town to town/city to city population and needs than the Feds do.

The Feds have more resources at their disposal that the states do

The combo when it's the states making their initial assessment of what they believe they need, and then asking the Feds for X, Y and Z, and then having the Feds come in to help, and provide more guidance and support is what is being talked about.

This isn't a one size fits all situation, so the states giving the Feds some guidance is one of the keys to getting the best and timeliest response for everyone.  It's not perfect, but it helps with trying to send the limited resources available where they are most needed when they're needed.

Managing a public health situation like this is, when such a vast area of the country and world are simultaneously involved, is basically an impossible task to get it "right" for everyone everywhere all the time. That's the reality of this situation, and using some more localized planning will help get as much of the resources where they can do the most good for the largest number of people right now


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

drjeff said:


> The* states certainly have more intimate knowledge of their town to town/city to city population and needs than the Feds do.*
> 
> The *Feds have more resources at their disposal that the states* do



I agree with this, but this pandemic has made me realize there's an inherent problem here.   The states are likely going to ask for more then they need, either to be conservative, or for a politician to cover his ass, and this will stress that supply system.   

Real world example happening now:  Cuomo keeps going on TV saying that NYC needs 30,000 ventilators.  Nobody I've seen once has ever questioned this, but it seems nearly impossible in a city of 8.6M people given only about 5% will require ICU treatment, and the fact that not 100% of ICU patients will require vent.   The infection rate would have to dramatically increase from where it is now, which seems highly unlikely given NYC has gone from completely ignoring COVID19 to now taking it seriously.   So lets say NYC winds up needing 17,000 vents and you do provide them the 30,000 requested; well that's a HUGE problem for numerous other places in America if you misallocate 13,000 ventilators.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I agree with this, but this pandemic has made me realize there's an inherent problem here.   The states are likely going to ask for more then they need, either to be conservative, or for a politician to cover his ass, and this will stress that supply system.
> 
> Real world example happening now:  Cuomo keeps going on TV saying that NYC needs 30,000 ventilators.  Nobody I've seen once has ever questioned this, but it seems nearly impossible in a city of 8.6M people given only about 5% will require ICU treatment, and the fact that not 100% of ICU patients will require vent.   The infection rate would have to dramatically increase from where it is now, which seems highly unlikely given NYC has gone from completely ignoring COVID19 to now taking it seriously.   So lets say NYC winds up needing 17,000 vents and you do provide them the 30,000 requested; well that's a HUGE problem for numerous other places in America if you misallocate 13,000 ventilators.



This fucken bullshit is killing our best healthcare people that are trying the best to serve patients.
Why all you debate everyone here maybe your right about governor combo or wrong really don't matter in times like these is from my cousin who work in NYC hospital

"We don’t have enough tests for patients or staff. The system is ramping up, but we have known exposures and staff are being told to keep working unless they become symptomatic.


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## flakeydog (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I agree with this, but this pandemic has made me realize there's an inherent problem here.   The states are likely going to ask for more then they need, either to be conservative, or for a politician to cover his ass, and this will stress that supply system.
> 
> Real world example happening now:  Cuomo keeps going on TV saying that NYC needs 30,000 ventilators.  Nobody I've seen once has ever questioned this, but it seems nearly impossible in a city of 8.6M people given only about 5% will require ICU treatment, and the fact that not 100% of ICU patients will require vent.   The infection rate would have to dramatically increase from where it is now, which seems highly unlikely given NYC has gone from completely ignoring COVID19 to now taking it seriously.   So lets say NYC winds up needing 17,000 vents and you do provide them the 30,000 requested; well that's a HUGE problem for numerous other places in America if you misallocate 13,000 ventilators.



This kind of makes the point as to why some sort of centralized oversight is necessary.  If you leave it to each state "get their own stuff", they will undoubtedly aim high.  This is why the "your on your own/me first" strategy is a bit flawed in situations like these.  If you introduce a competitive element to procuring supplies, you make a scarce resource even harder to get.  Why do you think we cant find toilet paper?  We are likely not using more but human nature causes some people to take more than they need fearing they will not be able to get it otherwise.  These are to become shared resources.  Unused or unneeded stuff goes back or is redeployed, especially since parts of the country are likely on different demand cycles (which I think Gov C. specifically said).

Another good example is how our Fire Departments work.  Town A has a dept that is capable of handling most incidents but when things get bad, they call in other departments.  If you take some of the things that the fed has said it would be like requiring each and every town to have the resources to fight the worst fires on hand at all times and not be able to call out to other depts for assistance.  You need an extra pumper truck? too bad, you should have had it already and no, you cant use mine.  Me first, you are on your own.


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## JimG. (Mar 26, 2020)

Our Neros in federal government fiddle as Rome burns.

I'm staying home just because I'm so disgusted at the stupidity and selfishness out there. And that applies to people outside the government too. This has brought into laser focus the fact that my family and I are on our own.

I wanted to fish today but the stocking trucks were here on Monday and since they had to operate with only 1 worker all the fish were put in at bridges. Since the fish will congregate there for a few days, yes you guessed it there are tons of fishermen crowding together catching all those fish. And it's not even legal to be fishing yet (save for a few places), that's not until 4/1. By then there won't be any fish left. The selfishness is astounding!!!

This bullshit might inspire me to finally go get a firearm, something I have always maintained I would never do.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> This fucken bullshit is killing our best healthcare people that are trying the best to serve patients.
> Why all you debate everyone here maybe your right about governor combo or wrong really don't matter in times like these is from my cousin who work in NYC hospital
> 
> "We don’t have enough tests for patients or staff. The system is ramping up, but we have known exposures and staff are being told to keep working unless they become symptomatic.



I read that twice to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I dont understand how it correlates or has anything to do with the supply chain points I was making.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

JimG. said:


> *This bullshit might inspire me to finally go get a firearm*, something I have always maintained I would never do.



SEE:  Hurricane Katrina aftermath

Dont go looking for that story from established news sources, you likely wont find it.  Read local inhabitants of greater New Orleans first-hand accounts.  A firearm was a very handy thing to have, to put it lightly.


----------



## JimG. (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> SEE:  Hurricane Katrina aftermath
> 
> Dont go looking for that story from established news sources, you likely wont find it.  Read local inhabitants of greater New Orleans first-hand accounts.  A firearm was a very handy thing to have, to put it lightly.



My parents raised me to believe nothing that I read and only half of what I see. I'm not looking for any news stories to confirm what my eyes have seen over the past few weeks.

People are selfish and will take and hoard anything they can. And when the stores run out I have no doubt they will look elsewhere to steal. 

I believe in not being part of the problem and in helping others. And I also believe in not being a victim. I think we are heading to a place where self defense is essential. And it makes me sick to have to think that way.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I read that twice to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I dont understand how it correlates or has anything to do with the supply chain points I was making.



Because it's fucken every 1 out in medical field are dying for patients. It's sad that. YouI don't seem to care about that situation at all.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> Because it's fucken every 1 out in medical field are dying for patients. It's sad that. *YouI don't seem to care *about that situation at all.



*Everyone* in the medical field is dying?   

I certainly would care if what you said was remotely true.  The second part is pretty rotten too.

 Sorry, but I am a data-driven person who uses reason, statistics, data, and logic to understand a situation.  I am not emo.  I am not hiding under my couch rocking back & forth in a drug-induced haze to "get by" this.  Yes, people will die, especially those > 80.  But we are going to get through this, and as bad as it is, it is not as bad as the worst-case scenarios you see on TV, which are unfortunately the *only* scenarios promoted, and I'm gathering from your posts is the scenario you believe.


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## JimG. (Mar 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> Because it's fucken every 1 out in medical field are dying for patients. It's sad that. YouI don't seem to care about that situation at all.



Hey bud, I know where you are coming from. These folks don't know you are at risk and scared.

BG is discussing data and statistics. I don't think he is ignoring the risks that healthcare workers face. I fear for my wife who is a home healthcare worker and for her clients who are elderly. It hits home for me too. And young people are dying too, not just people over 60 like me. 

Last night I watched what has become a daily ritual in Italy where everyone has been confined to home. At 6pm all the residents of Italy go to their windows and applaud, cheer and give thanks to their healthcare workers. Awesome and inspiring!


----------



## JimG. (Mar 26, 2020)

So let's all try to be kind to each other. I've said this before.

If we support and care for each other this too shall pass.


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## VTKilarney (Mar 26, 2020)

So much for the Imperial College paper.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1243133211011690499?s=20


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## JimG. (Mar 26, 2020)

That's the first and last time I'll look at Twitter.

Do they call people who use Twitter Twits? They should.


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## prsboogie (Mar 26, 2020)

Our ER just had 16 pizzas delivered by the police for a local restaurant who donated them to us.  Greatly appreciated though for sure.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Hey bud, I know where you are coming from. These folks don't know you are at risk and scared.
> 
> BG is discussing data and statistics. I don't think he is ignoring the risks that healthcare workers face. I fear for my wife who is a home healthcare worker and for her clients who are elderly. It hits home for me too. And young people are dying too, not just people over 60 like me.
> 
> Last night I watched what has become a daily ritual in Italy where everyone has been confined to home. At 6pm all the residents of Italy go to their windows and applaud, cheer and give thanks to their healthcare workers. Awesome and inspiring!



Exactly what I mean


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## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Sorry, but I am a data-driven person who uses reason, statistics, data, and logic to understand a situation.



You should apply these skills to climate change.  Sorry, could not resist.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> You should apply these skills to climate change.  Sorry, could not resist.



I do, which is why I am agnostic on the subject; as everyone should be.


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## EPB (Mar 26, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> You should apply these skills to climate change.  Sorry, could not resist.



M. Brissette - you are such a friendly Canadian! 
A ta santé! :flag:


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## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I do, which is why I am agnostic on the subject; as everyone should be.




Good grief...   You are completely ideologically driven on this topic.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> Good grief...   You are completely ideologically driven on this topic.



Not so, I just keep my religion in the church pew.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

Amelia Nierenberg's dad is a critical care doctor who now has Covid-19. “I’m not getting better,” he told her on Wednesday. “I’m not turning around.”


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## trackbiker (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I do, which is why I am agnostic on the subject; as everyone should be.



If you really did and applied the information objectively you wouldn't still be supporting your preconceived notion that it's not caused by human activity, since many separate fields of science have come to the conclusion that it is. But then you know better than all of the Phd's in their fields as anyone who reads this blog regularly already knows. In fact most could predict your side of any future topic at 99.9%


----------



## EPB (Mar 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> Amelia Nierenberg's dad is a critical care doctor who now has Covid-19. “I’m not getting better,” he told her on Wednesday. “I’m not turning around.”


Be well, Scotty!


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 26, 2020)

trackbiker said:


> If you really did and applied the information objectively you wouldn't still be supporting your preconceived notion that it's not caused by human activity, since many separate fields of science have come to the conclusion that it is. But then you know better than all of the Phd's in their fields as anyone who reads this blog regularly already knows. In fact most could predict your side of any future topic at 99.9%



It's easy to say science proves something when you cherry pick short term data and ignore any long range data that disproves your point.  But this is a pretty pointless debate because nobody's minds will ever be changed


----------



## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> It's easy to say science proves something when you cherry pick short term data and ignore any long range data that disproves your point.


 
Let's play.  I'm stuck at home and bored.   How do you know this ?  What's your background ?   Where do you get your information from (ok don't answer this one, I know it comes from blogs)  Can you give me an example of cherry picking in a scientific journal, not on a blog, but from real science ?

About me. I have a PhD, been working on the impact of climate change on water resources for 25 years.  Been working with climate scientists for 22 years.   Part of a Canadian-German team that has produced the largest regional climate simulations ever  (https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JAMC-D-18-0021.1) .  I have about 150 published scientific papers, including half of them touching climate change. I have met and discussed with the brightest minds in the field of climate science throughout the years.

So it makes me laugh when you or BG (a biologist) think you know more than the people who actually do the science.  The science is solid, the data is clear, there are no other competing theories (solar cycles, measurement errors, urban heat islands etc...) which explains the warming.   For crying all out, the basics of global warming have been known for 200 years.

Fourier showed the control of the earths temperature by the atmosphere in 1820.  Tyndall described the impact of CO2 on infrared radiation in 1860 and Arrhenius calculated the increase of the earth's temperature from a doubling of CO2 in 1890.   Yes in frickin 1890.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> Be well, Scotty!



Not me
But a friend


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> Let's play.



Yes, let's derail another thread with climate change during coranavirus, to boot.

Let's make it easier, instead of derailing this thread, just revive one of the other 1,000 threads on Global Warming.  Perhaps pick one of the ones from the 2010 ski season which claimed there would be no eastern skiing left in America by 2020.


----------



## EPB (Mar 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> Not me
> But a friend


Apologies. Wishing them/you the best. Hang in there!

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yes, let's derail another thread with climate change during coranavirus, to boot.
> 
> Let's make it easier, instead of derailing this thread, just revive one of the other 1,000 threads on Global Warming.  Perhaps pick one of the ones from the 2010 ski season which claimed there would be no eastern skiing left in America by 2020.



Science never said there would be no skiing by 2020.  America is politically divided and this is a topic that is perfectly aligned with the political divide.  There are uninformed idiots on each side of the fence.  Don't listen to them.  Listen to the scientists.  

One party and its president, supported by half of the voting population, is pushing a distrust of science and that is scaring me a lot more than the coronavirus.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> One party and its president, supported by half of the voting population,  is scaring me



Worry about Justin Trudeau instead, there's plenty there to keep you busy enough.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> Apologies. Wishing them/you the best. Hang in there!
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



Thanks. I been staying inside my apartment for much before it came to masses .
I do everything to avoid getting this virus if possible because of multiple asthma and past
Restipority and other things that are not good combination for anyone

From great doctor that I followed on facecrap

"There are 166 confirmed cases in Albany County now and that is without any outpatient testing in over a week (my guess is there are 1000+ cases here). Today I spoke to close physician friends of mine, both at our local hospitals and in NYC telling me the reality of what is going on in the hospitals. In NYC it's very bad.  13 people died just yesterday at Elmhurst Hospital.  We know more now- this isn't just affecting the elderly. There are multiple young people in their 30s, 40s and 50s who are in critical condition fighting for their lives.  Supplies are still low. If anyone has masks, please donate them to the hospitals. COVID-19 is spreading like wild fire LOCALLY. I hear from people that parks such as the Crossings are filled with people today, like it was a normal summer day. STOP DOING THIS. STAY HOME. Stay in your OWN yards. Stay away from your neighbors. Try to go to the grocery stores as little as you possibly can. If you are out of a few items, try to do without and eat what you do have at home. My heart breaks for all those affected. Please please stay home."


----------



## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Worry about Justin Trudeau instead, there's plenty there to keep you busy enough.



Yep, sadly, we too can elect unqualified people to head our nation.  Plenty of other examples around the world also.


----------



## Edd (Mar 26, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> Yep, sadly, we too can elect unqualified people to head our nation.  Plenty of other examples around the world also.



I’m envying your situation right about now.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> I’m envying your situation right about now.



 The majority of America isnt


----------



## EPB (Mar 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> I’m envying your situation right about now.


Move to Vancouver or Calgary. You can get your brand of politics and world class skiing within ~2 hours.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Edd (Mar 26, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> The majority of America isnt



And yet, I still do. Btw, what’s your source?


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

James Kious Kelly, a 48-year-old assistant nursing manager at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, dies after contracting coronavirus.


----------



## Smellytele (Mar 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> Be well, Scotty!



Liberty biberty has covid-19 and is on a respirator.


----------



## Smellytele (Mar 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> James Kious Kelly, a 48-year-old assistant nursing manager at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, dies after contracting coronavirus.



Are we going to name each person who is sick or has died from this?


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## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Are we going to name each person who is sick or has died from this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Ya I did see that to u mentioned it
I hope for the best in this fight this virus any 1.


----------



## EPB (Mar 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> And yet, I still do. Btw, what’s your source?


I was thinking it would be pretty hilarious to run a poll on this after seeing how this was worded. 

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## Edd (Mar 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> Move to Vancouver or Calgary. You can get your brand of politics and world class skiing within ~2 hours.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



Been to and skied out of both. And dang, it does not suck. 

Can’t speak to the politics of different Canadian provinces but...the folks in the Banff area were some of the nicest I’ve met in my life. Quebec, less so. However, my trip to Quebec City, MSA, and Le Massif last year was amazing. We felt more welcome there than a previous trip to Montreal and Tremblant but, this is subjective stuff. 

I used to live in WA state and my visits to Canada have been largely positive experiences. I actually moved from WA to NH by driving across Canada, which to this day I think was a stroke of genius. There’s a funny story in an Ontario bar that I’ll post here sometime.


----------



## EPB (Mar 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> Been to and skied out of both. And dang, it does not suck.
> 
> Can’t speak to the politics of different Canadian provinces but...the folks in the Banff area were some of the nicest I’ve met in my life. Quebec, less so. However, my trip to Quebec City, MSA, and Le Massif last year was amazing. We felt more welcome there than a previous trip to Montreal and Tremblant but, this is subjective stuff.
> 
> I used to live in WA state and my visits to Canada have been largely positive experiences. I actually moved from WA to NH by driving across Canada, which to this day I think was a stroke of genius. There’s a funny story in an Ontario bar that I’ll post here sometime.


Cool. I have family opposite the sound from Seattle, so I know that area a little bit. Also made a mini jaunt though Toronto on my way to move from Boston to St. Paul a while back and loved it.

The Québécois and French tend to really like me because I can speak French. I understand that's rare, and even my wife doesn't feel the warmth when we visit francophone areas. The number one thing I've heard from the Québécois is how nice it is that a New Englander like me cares to learn French more than my fellow millennials living on the island of Montreal.

You may find this funny amidst all the political craziness these days, but I'd actually love to spend a year in Montreal/Quebec if I could ever swing it.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> I actually moved from WA to NH by driving across Canada, which to this day I think was a stroke of genius.



That does sound like a great idea.  Only negative in my book is radar detectors are illegal in Canada.  That and Canuck highways often leave something to be desired in terms of maintenance versus American highways.  But for those who've done the cross USA trip several times I think it'd be great.



eastern powder baby said:


> You may find this funny amidst all the political craziness these days, but *I'd actually love to spend a year in Montreal*/Quebec if I could ever swing it.



Not crazy at all.  I took a few years of French when I lived in n.VT & visited Montreal regularly, to the point that I know the city very well.  I tried to "spend a year" there by applying to a school for my MBA, knowing it would be brutally difficult as Canadian schools accept very few Americans, and alas, I did not get in. :sad:


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## VTKilarney (Mar 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> That does sound like a great idea.  Only negative in my book is radar detectors are illegal in Canada.  That and Canuck highways often leave something to be desired in terms of maintenance versus American highways.  But for those who've done the cross USA trip several times I think it'd be great.:



Don’t forget the price of gasoline in Canada.  That’s a turnoff.


----------



## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2020)

VTKilarney said:


> Don’t forget the price of gasoline in Canada.  That’s a turnoff.


With the current exchange rate the difference is not that large anymore.


----------



## Smellytele (Mar 27, 2020)

I remember when I was a kid and they sold gas by the imperial gallon. 5 quarts instead of 4. Strange.


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## fbrissette (Mar 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> I remember when I was a kid and they sold gas by the imperial gallon. 5 quarts instead of 4. Strange.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



The imperial gallon is made of four (40oz) imperial quarts so it's fully logical.   What is strange is using US quarts (32OZ) to measure an imperial gallon.   Anyhow, this alone is an example as to why the International system is so much better.


----------



## Cornhead (Mar 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> I remember when I was a kid and they sold gas by the imperial gallon. 5 quarts instead of 4. Strange.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


I remember during the 70's oil embargo, the one that brought us odd/even license plate gas rationing, gas was sold by the litre. The pumps were not designed to go over one dollar per gallon.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using AlpineZone mobile app


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 27, 2020)

VTKilarney said:


> Don’t forget the price of gasoline in Canada.  That’s a turnoff.



Oh yeah, that is brutal, good point.   Whenever I went to Montreal back in the day I made sure to fill up before leaving n.VT.


----------



## fbrissette (Mar 27, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Oh yeah, that is brutal, good point.   Whenever I went to Montreal back in the day I made sure to fill up before leaving n.VT.



Current lowest gas price in Vermont - (gasbuddy.com) 1.57$ per US gallons - 0.59 CDN$ per liter.

Current lowest gas price in Quebec  - same source  0.69 CDN$ per liter.  Only about 15% difference

Not that bad currently because of bad exchange rate and low gas price (quebec taxes are proportional).  Difference is more like 30-40% normally.  I also always fill up in Vermont prior to driving back to Montreal.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 27, 2020)

Just wait for when the price of gas plummets in about 7 to 10 days.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Just wait for when the price of gas plummets in about 7 to 10 days.



Places in Kentucky and Tennessee already down to .99/gal


----------



## mister moose (Mar 29, 2020)

fbrissette said:


> Smellytele said:
> 
> 
> > I remember when I was a kid and they sold gas by the imperial gallon. 5 quarts instead of 4. Strange.
> ...


Not so strange when you consider the useage of the day.   I grew up spending summers on little boats with outboard motors.  Once you got away from integral tanks, virtually all of them came with 6 gallon tanks.  They were all printed with "Capacity 6 US gallons or 5 Imperial gallons"  Pre-1970 gas in Canada was sold in Imperial gallons, and the largest outboard manufacturers all were close to, and had a huge market presence in Canada.

So a US gallon has 16 US quarts, and an imperial gallon would have (6/5)*4 or  4.8 US quarts

The six gallon gas tank made it easy to mix 50:1 gas, 1 pint of oil to 6 gallons gas is 48:1.  



(Technically 6.005 US gallons = 5 Imperial)


----------



## Smellytele (Mar 29, 2020)

mister moose said:


> Not so strange when you consider the useage of the day.   I grew up spending summers on little boats with outboard motors.  Once you got away from integral tanks, virtually all of them came with 6 gallon tanks.  They were all printed with "Capacity 6 US gallons or 5 Imperial gallons"  Pre-1970 gas in Canada was sold in Imperial gallons, and the largest outboard manufacturers all were close to, and had a huge market presence in Canada.
> 
> So a US gallon has 16 US quarts, and an imperial gallon would have (6/5)*4 or  4.8 US quarts
> 
> ...



Actually pre 1980 as they changed to liters in 1979.


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## mbedle (Mar 29, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Just wait for when the price of gas plummets in about 7 to 10 days.



Wait for what?


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 29, 2020)

The lowest demand it probably 50 years will probably push gas below a buck a gallon everywhere 

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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2020)

mbedle said:


> *Wait for what?*



Unless Saudi Arabia & Russia come to a new agreement, and soon, there'll be more oil *supply *than any time in history starting April 1, 2020.

And it's going to coincide with a near-record fall in *demand* due to COVID19.

So you have massive supply & low demand = falling prices.


----------



## Dickc (Mar 29, 2020)

You can add into this that most areas around the globe have been filling the stockpiles while oil is cheap.  They are running out of room and starting to ask producers to cut back as there will shortly be no where to put the stuff.  Wait until the tankers are all full with no port to head into due to the glut!

https://fortune.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-gas-prices-oil-industry-storage-crude-production/


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2020)

We should be filling the US Strategic Oil Reserve with near record-low oil at a cost of $3B, but we're not for political reasons, so we'll just fill it at a later date $6B to $10B instead.  Your government at work.


----------



## JimG. (Mar 29, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> The lowest demand it probably 50 years will probably push gas below a buck a gallon everywhere
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



That would be amazing.


----------



## ss20 (Mar 29, 2020)

BG may be able to answer this better than my 3 economics classes from college but I'd say we're bound for a year of deflation rather than inflation.  

Demand is down for pretty much everything, suppliers are going to have to lower their prices to lure people out of their houses.  And they can because gas is so cheap the cost of transport is going down rapidly.  Less spending and people holding onto their money=less money in the supply chain.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 29, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> We should be filling the US Strategic Oil Reserve with near record-low oil at a cost of $3B, but we're not for political reasons, so we'll just fill it at a later date $6B to $10B instead.  Your government at work.



Trump announced early last week or the week before that they were going to refill the reserves while the price was down.


----------



## thebigo (Mar 29, 2020)

ss20 said:


> BG may be able to answer this better than my 3 economics classes from college but I'd say we're bound for a year of deflation rather than inflation.
> 
> Demand is down for pretty much everything, suppliers are going to have to lower their prices to lure people out of their houses.  And they can because gas is so cheap the cost of transport is going down rapidly.  Less spending and people holding onto their money=less money in the supply chain.



The other side of the coin is that many people are working through this. Some of us are sending our spouse off to the hospital every morning, trying to educate our children during the day all while trying to complete our jobs during odd hours around their schedule. Think about all the medical staff, engineers, lawyers, public sector, etc. The pay checks are still coming in but there is nothing to spend it on and nobody is using vacation time. The result is that when this is over, whenever that may be, many people will be stuffed with cash and vacation time all while wanting to get as far away from their house as possible.


----------



## ss20 (Mar 29, 2020)

thebigo said:


> The other side of the coin is that many people are working through this. Some of us are sending our spouse off to the hospital every morning, trying to educate our children during the day all while trying to complete our jobs during odd hours around their schedule. Think about all the medical staff, engineers, lawyers, public sector, etc. The pay checks are still coming in but there is nothing to spend it on and nobody is using vacation time. The result is that when this is over, whenever that may be, many people will be stuffed with cash and vacation time all while wanting to get as far away from their house as possible.



That's my thought as well.  I don't buy the whole "we're gonna plunge into a recession" bit.  When this ends spending is gonna shoot through the roof, the market will be primed for investing, and gas will be at it's lowest price in 15+ years.  As long as this stays short-term the economy will stay healthy.  Make this a 6 month+ thing and you're in for some trouble.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> *T**rump announced early last week or the week before that they were going to refill the reserves while the price was down.*



Yes, he did.

Then the Democrats nixed it, saying it would be a "bailout of Big Oil", which makes absolutely no sense on multiple levels.  But it doesnt matter, most people who will vote Democrat wont understand that, they just hear that Dem leadership did something against big oil companies (they didnt) and will think it's good.   It WILL cost America literally billions of dollars, because the SAR does need to be eventually replenished, but hey, that politics.  Or something.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 30, 2020)

ss20 said:


> BG may be able to answer this better than my 3 economics classes from college but I'd say we're bound for a year of deflation rather than inflation.
> 
> Demand is down for pretty much everything, suppliers are going to have to lower their prices to lure people out of their houses.  And they can because gas is so cheap the cost of transport is going down rapidly.  Less spending and people holding onto their money=less money in the supply chain.



So much $$$$ is being injected into the economy I'd worry more about inflation as a significant risk in a few years than deflation.

It may be optimistic thinking, but I'm not convinced the US economy is long-term going to be that crushed by this.  This was nothing systemic, it was a black swan event, and one that is fleeting to boot.  I worry more about relatively low-margin small businesses that may not be able to survive a long closure (restaurants, etc.), but supposedly the bulk of the Trump rescue package targets small business.  All-in-all, my fingers are crossed, but I'm very hopeful.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 30, 2020)

I'm hopeful as well, but I don't thing we know the effect right now of what essentially will be a two month unexpected job loss for tens of millions of Americans.  And that's the best case scenario.  Yes, they'll be getting stimulus checks and unemployment benefits.  Small businesses will get help too.

 How does this change consumer psychology though?  I bet many are thinking, "This would be a whole lot easier to get through without a car payment or high monthly CC bill." People are going to think good and hard about replacing cars, renovation projects, vacations, dining out as often, new skis, etc.  The real estate market likely slows too.  Young people who have been saving for first homes and have seen their investments wrecked might wait a year  to have full confidence that we are back to normal before taking the plunge. 

I don't think it will be as bad as 2008 as like you said, this isn't a systemic problem.  However it has been pretty scary for a huge amount of people and supposedly we haven't seen the worst of it yet.  Hard to predict how quickly that fear goes away. 

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## BenedictGomez (Mar 30, 2020)

All valid points.   

I fear for the housing market most of all, as it was already unrealistically too expensive to begin with & IMO near or at Housing Bubble 2.0 levels in many, if not most, US markets.   Most people dont realize prices were getting close to 2006/7 Housing Bubble prices on an inflation-adjusted basis.  That's scary enough without coronavirus.


----------



## dblskifanatic (Apr 18, 2020)

So we just emails from attorneys wanting to start a class action law suit against Vail.  F’n blood suckers!  There claim is that the season pass was providing a product that was for a period of October to June and by closing down they are not doing so.  The attorneys will make millions while the pass holders will get pocket change.


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## Edd (Apr 18, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> So we just emails from attorneys wanting to start a class action law suit against Vail.  F’n blood suckers!  There claim is that the season pass was providing a product that was for a period of October to June and by closing down they are not doing so.  The attorneys will make millions while the pass holders will get pocket change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



That does not make me happy. Kicking the ski industry while it’s down.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 18, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> So we just emails from attorneys wanting to start a class action law suit against Vail.  F’n blood suckers!  There claim is that the season pass was providing a product that was for a period of October to June and *by closing down they are not doing so.  The attorneys will make millions while the pass holders will get pocket change.*



The entire nation declared a State of Emergency, I doubt the bloodsuckers make anything; I doubt Vail would even settle this out-of-court.


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> All valid points.
> 
> I fear for the housing market most of all, as it was already unrealistically too expensive to begin with & IMO near or at Housing Bubble 2.0 levels in many, if not most, US markets.   Most people dont realize prices were getting close to 2006/7 Housing Bubble prices on an inflation-adjusted basis.  That's scary enough without coronavirus.



Hopefully banks won’t tighten up lending requirements. Rates are lower again I’m thinking that might preserve some value.
I just put a house on the market 4 days ago and am encouraged by the over 1200 views and 37 saves on Zillow . I’m sure  it’s not going to be the sellers market it was before but hoping for close to what it was .


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## VTKilarney (Apr 18, 2020)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Hopefully banks won’t tighten up lending requirements. Rates are lower again I’m thinking that might preserve some value.
> I just put a house on the market 4 days ago and am encouraged by the over 1200 views and 37 saves on Zillow . I’m sure  it’s not going to be the sellers market it was before but hoping for close to what it was .



They’ve already tightened up lending requirements.  Take a look at this article.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...he-credit-bar-for-homebuyers-and-refinancers/

And Chase just announced that they are no longer offering HELOCs.

A lot of your views are probably bottom feeders.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 18, 2020)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> *Hopefully banks won’t tighten up lending requirements.*



Too late.

https://in.reuters.com/article/jp-m...NKCN21U02O?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews

 I feel very confident that whatever the ven diagram of Americans with a >= 700 credit score who are also capable of putting 20% down for a house is dramatically smaller than the pool of overall home buyers.  That will equate to some forced hit in buying demand.


----------



## Jcb890 (Apr 19, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The entire nation declared a State of Emergency, I doubt the bloodsuckers make anything; I doubt Vail would even settle this out-of-court.


Agreed.

I didn't check the site, but I would be surprised if they mention October - June and there's no way they actually guarantee skiing from October - June.


----------



## dblskifanatic (Apr 19, 2020)

Now showing up on Facebook as Sponsored read the deets


https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...s-skiers-owed-refund-after-covid-19-shutdown/


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## machski (Apr 19, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> Now showing up on Facebook as Sponsored read the deets
> 
> 
> https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...s-skiers-owed-refund-after-covid-19-shutdown/
> ...


Pretty funny, yeah Vail "enriched itself" even though they have furloughed many employees and the rest have been forced to accept reduced salaries.  How am I not surprised the lead Plantiff is from California.  Angry ski bro, wahh, I didn't get full use of my ridiculously cheap $499 pass!!

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## dblskifanatic (Apr 20, 2020)

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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 21, 2020)

I wonder how much of a settlement that I can get since I only used my Epic Local Pass 44 times :roll::roll::roll::roll:


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## drjeff (Apr 21, 2020)

It's class action suit like this hat really makes we think we need some tort reform and potentially a "looser pays" clause in some instances....


----------



## trackbiker (Apr 21, 2020)

drjeff said:


> It's class action suit like this hat really makes we think we need some tort reform and potentially a "looser pays" clause in some instances....



Exactly. How many times have you received a card in the mail asking if you've used so-and-so product in the past X years?
The lawyers make millions and everyone else gets a coupon for 50 cents or some BS.


----------



## dblskifanatic (Apr 21, 2020)

trackbiker said:


> Exactly. How many times have you received a card in the mail asking if you've used so-and-so product in the past X years?
> The lawyers make millions and everyone else gets a coupon for 50 cents or some BS.



Happens every time there is a class action lawsuit.  Those attorneys must scour the landscape and find this that might fire up the general public to line their own pockets.

I have the Epic Veteran Pass and have used about 25 times and while I would more uses I am ok with it.  My other pass I have used about 6 times and really wish I could get more days.  It is what it is!

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## BenedictGomez (Apr 21, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> Happens every time there is a class action lawsuit.  *Those attorneys must scour the landscape and find this that might fire up the general public to line their own pockets.*



Exactly, and they go "jury shopping", which is why you notice so many of these class action lawsuits tend to be filed in the same handful of relatively few court systems.   Agree that the entire system needs reform, but it will likely never happen.


----------



## jaytrem (Apr 21, 2020)

drjeff said:


> It's class action suit like this hat really makes we think we need some tort reform and potentially a "looser pays" clause in some instances....



Good idea, but I wouldn't count on Vail winning this one.  I went into reading kindaon Vail's side, but I gotta admit they do make some good points.  I do know a few people who got no use, or almost no use, from their Epic or Ikon.  They mainly purchased it for a spring western trip.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 21, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> *They mainly purchased it for a spring western trip.*



That's a good point, I hadn't considered the bizarre uniqueness of these products as "faux" season passes.  

Still, that's not Vail Resort or Alterra's fault.  A season pass isnt like a forward-dated advanced purchase lift ticket.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Apr 21, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's a good point, I hadn't considered the bizarre uniqueness of these products as "faux" season passes.
> 
> Still, that's not Vail Resort or Alterra's fault.  A season pass isnt like a forward-dated advanced purchase lift ticket.



I think thats a very arguable and winnable point.  Keystone opened not much after A-Basin,  Mount Snow opened up not after Killington, Locally to me (Within 2 hours) Jack Frost or was it Big Boulder was open at Thanksgiving. 

Plenty of time to use your pass...  Does it suck that someone planned a CO Trip for the End of March and didn't use it, Yep.  but Class Action wrong doing that is not.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 21, 2020)

https://www.outtherecolorado.com/va...lions-over-early-end-to-2019-2020-ski-season/

https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public...20cv02463NDCalApr102020CourtDocket?1586855225


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## drjeff (Apr 21, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Good idea, but I wouldn't count on Vail winning this one.  I went into reading kindaon Vail's side, but I gotta admit they do make some good points.  I do know a few people who got no use, or almost no use, from their Epic or Ikon.  They mainly purchased it for a spring western trip.



I do get both sides of it.

This past season, I got 34 days on my Epic Local.  No complaints with that at all

I got 3 days on my full IKON - not thrilled with that, but the combo of having to cancel a planned trip to Utah over Christmas week and then having either my racer parent schedule change and/or some of my kids races at IKON resorts getting cancelled, had me getting about 10-12 less days on my IKON than I thought I would when I bought it last September. That's just the way the ball bounced for me this season.  Do I want to become a part of the IKON class action suit because I can't use the remaining days I have available for Killington now? Nope, that's just my own personal view of things.

Heck, I made the choice not to get pass insurance, so in my head, this isn't much different than if I say blew out my ACL in December, and then went looking for a refund. Things happen. Sucks especially for those who bought with the sole intent of using it for just 1 week in late March and beyond. The reality is for those folks, maybe the pass wasn't the best option in the first place, for more than just economic reasons.  That though is probably a 20 or so page thread of its own ;-)


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## jaytrem (Apr 21, 2020)

Seems like the question is did they advertise something and then not deliver?  If so they may have a problem.  Clearly there is still enough snow for skiing.  Of course the virus isn't their fault, but it's also not the fault of the passholders.  I suspect the future fine print will address such things.  Some other places are already putting in guidelines for how much you'll get off the next year pass if not open for X number of days.

It is interesting to see people supporting the so called "evil empire".  I guess we all hate lawyers more than Vail.


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## EPB (Apr 21, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Seems like the question is did they advertise something and then not deliver?  If so they may have a problem.  Clearly there is still enough snow for skiing.  Of course the virus isn't their fault, but it's also not the fault of the passholders.  I suspect the future fine print will address such things.  Some other places are already putting in guidelines for how much you'll get off the next year pass if not open for X number of days.
> 
> It is interesting to see people supporting the so called "evil empire".  I guess we all hate lawyers more than Vail.


Staying my bias upfront, I'm someone who is marginally warm to Vail, but surely not a fanboy. 'They happen to be the ones bringing me a good pass product, so good for the time being' is my general attitude.

That established, I don't know how any serious skier looks at this and holds anyone in the industry accountable for not remaining open longer. It's not about being pro/anti Vail in my book. It's about looking at the situation with your head screwed on straight and understanding that some circumstances are out of everyone's control.

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## jaytrem (Apr 21, 2020)

The other question is does it benefit Vail to give some kind of refund of unused product.  The lawsuit could muddy up any plans they had for that.  I know if I bought a 4 or 7 day pass strictly for a trip in mid March, I wouldn't be too happy with them right now. No chance I'd ever buy again from them.  Lots of other companies are making good on stuff, example are Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Fox car rental gave my friend a refund on a non-refundable rental.  Jet Blue is giving a friend a hard time on a refund on flights they cancelled, he'll never fly them again.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 21, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Seems like the question is did they advertise something and then not deliver?  If so they may have a problem.  Clearly there is still enough snow for skiing.  Of course the virus isn't their fault, but it's also not the fault of the passholders.  I suspect the future fine print will address such things.  Some other places are already putting in guidelines for how much you'll get off the next year pass if not open for X number of days.
> 
> It is interesting to see people supporting the so called "evil empire".  I guess we all hate lawyers more than Vail.


It's less in support of Vail and more so just not supporting some douche/douches who are suing for what we all know is a ridiculous reason. Seriously, how big of an asshole do you have to be to initiate this lawsuit?

This is a sport, a luxury item, and always labeled 'as conditions permit'. Why can't the mountains argue a worldwide pandemic creating 'conditions' which would not allow them to continue the season. This time 'conditions' mean the ability to field a workforce and not have people infected, rather than snow quality/quantity. But, if you're going to sue them over this, I'd think the same asshole-y type of logic could be used to defend their stance.


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## p_levert (Apr 21, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> It's less in support of Vail and more so just not supporting some douche/douches who are suing for what we all know is a ridiculous reason. Seriously, how big of an asshole do you have to be to initiate this lawsuit?



I certainly agree that most class action lawsuits are frivolous and merely serve to enrich the lawyers.  I have gotten the postcards like everyone else.

OTOH, jeez, class action lawsuits are an important check on corporate power.  If not for class action, any corporation could rip people off for $1,000 or $2,000, and there would be very little recourse for consumers, because it's expensive to sue.  So class action lawsuits are not all bad.  That's all I want to say.


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## EPB (Apr 21, 2020)

p_levert said:


> I certainly agree that most class action lawsuits are frivolous and merely serve to enrich the lawyers.  I have gotten the postcards like everyone else.
> 
> OTOH, jeez, class action lawsuits are an important check on corporate power.  If not for class action, any corporation could rip people off for $1,000 or $2,000, and there would be very little recourse for consumers, because it's expensive to sue.  So class action lawsuits are not all bad.  That's all I want to say.


To Jaytrem's point, we also have the ability to take our business elsewhere. I'd be tempted to never ski at Vail resorts again if they didn't give me a credit for my purchase if I had dated tickets to ski on the weekend of 4/11 at Breckenridge, for example. 

As long as the company in question is operating in a competitive industry, this is a very real check.

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## JimG. (Apr 21, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Good idea, but I wouldn't count on Vail winning this one.  I went into reading kindaon Vail's side, but I gotta admit they do make some good points.  I do know a few people who got no use, or almost no use, from their Epic or Ikon.  They mainly purchased it for a spring western trip.



I'm not at all a fan of class action or tort cases in general. That's just me. I believe in the "loser pays all costs" strategy employed by many other countries.

I think what this particular situation does point out is that humans purchase things with plans and best outcomes in mind. And then, who would have thought, something comes along and wrecks those plans. The best laid plans...

What a perfect storm of chaos to totally unravel the megapass model. The "wave of the future" for ski area operations is turned on it's head in a flash. While I feel for your acquaintances who purchased passes they ultimately cannot use, that's how the cookie crumbles. With so many industries hurting like the airlines, how will the decrease in megapass sales look in September? I'm sure those folks will not be purchasing again.


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## cdskier (Apr 21, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> To Jaytrem's point, we also have the ability to take our business elsewhere. I'd be tempted to never ski at Vail resorts again if they didn't give me a credit for my purchase if I had dated tickets to ski on the weekend of 4/11 at Breckenridge, for example.



Tickets with a specific date that fell in the closure time-frame I would agree with being credited/refunded. An open-ended ski pass that you had ample time to use however is a different story. And it sounds like the primary plaintiff isn't even someone that falls in the category of a person that never used their pass at all based on the lawsuit. The claim is they purchased the pass (a $499 Tahoe Local pass) based on the promise that it would give them "unlimited, unrestricted skiing" from October to June as long as there was snow. And they argue if they had known that Vail would keep the full purchase amount of the pass if the season was unexpectedly cut short for some reason, that they wouldn't have bought the pass. Granted this person may have been recruited by the lawyers and didn't necessarily take it upon himself to start the case, but still...

The "well I bought it specifically to use in March/April" argument is interesting, but I don't really see it holding up. Plenty of arguments that I think Vail can use there (and I don't really recall that argument even explicitly stated in the lawsuit...just more general ones about "unused days" on the 1-7 day passes and a restriction of access when there was still snow on the mountains).

Here's an interesting hypothetical scenario...what if the plaintiff won the case and Vail was ordered to pay millions out as a result. That could cause them to declare bankruptcy. The Tahoe resorts could end up with new owners and end up having more expensive passes than the current Epic ones. Wonder how the plaintiff would feel if that scenario played out?


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## Jcb890 (Apr 21, 2020)

p_levert said:


> I certainly agree that most class action lawsuits are frivolous and merely serve to enrich the lawyers.  I have gotten the postcards like everyone else.
> 
> OTOH, jeez, class action lawsuits are an important check on corporate power.  If not for class action, any corporation could rip people off for $1,000 or $2,000, and there would be very little recourse for consumers, because it's expensive to sue.  So class action lawsuits are not all bad.  That's all I want to say.


I'm only speaking of this specific lawsuit. You have to be a real piece of work to have started this lawsuit. I hope they lose and everyone loses money on the ordeal.

Very rarely would I side with the large conglomerate company. In this case, I'm 100% on Vail's side.


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## RichT (Apr 22, 2020)

My Two Cents...........IF it was just Vail that closed yes, but the whole ski industry closed? No law suit should even be considered! 

Scum lawyers.


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## Smellytele (Apr 22, 2020)

RichT said:


> My Two Cents...........IF it was just Vail that closed yes, but the whole ski industry closed? No law suit should even be considered!
> 
> Scum lawyers.



They did close first then others followed suit. Not saying I think there should be a suit.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 22, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> *They did close first then others followed suit. *Not saying I think there should be a suit.



Not so, there were some small places that first pulled the trigger prior to Vail.  Not that I see how that matters.


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## ss20 (Apr 22, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Not so, there were some small places that first pulled the trigger prior to Vail.  Not that I see how that matters.



It doesn't matter because within three hours of Vail closing 90% of the ski resorts in the US were closed.  I'm never going to forget that night.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 22, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> They did close first then others followed suit. Not saying I think there should be a suit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




Jay Peak closed before vail, as did many other smaller areas


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## machski (Apr 22, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> The other question is does it benefit Vail to give some kind of refund of unused product.  The lawsuit could muddy up any plans they had for that.  I know if I bought a 4 or 7 day pass strictly for a trip in mid March, I wouldn't be too happy with them right now. No chance I'd ever buy again from them.  Lots of other companies are making good on stuff, example are Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Fox car rental gave my friend a refund on a non-refundable rental.  Jet Blue is giving a friend a hard time on a refund on flights they cancelled, he'll never fly them again.


I can maybe see some validity for the Epic Day pass purchasers.  While specific dates are not attached (valid any days over the season), 1-7 days pre bought  like this could arguably been made for a single vacation week.  Given what Vail charges for day or even multi-day tickets if purchased when you arrive/outside of the Epic Day pass program, a solid argument could be made here.  Epecially since Vail tracks the days used off of these Epic Day Passes.  

The problem for Vail is, if they credited unused days for the limited Day Pass to the following season, they would have received a ton of blowback I think from Epic Local/Full Epic Passholders for something too.  I guess they are seeing the one downside to their ticketing model they created now and this was likely the only scenario where it would fail so miserably.

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## cdskier (Apr 22, 2020)

FWIW...there's a lawsuit against Alterra as well for the same thing.

https://vtskiandride.com/will-these-lawsuits-mean-for-ski-areas/


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## VTKilarney (Apr 22, 2020)

If someone hadn't used their season pass, and can prove that they had a trip booked for after the ski areas shut down, the decent thing for Vail to do would be to refund the money.  They don't have to, but it would be a nice gesture.


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## gmcunni (Apr 27, 2020)

*refunds*

some $$ back

https://www.epicpass.com/info/2019-2020-pass-holder-credit.aspx


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## snoseek (Apr 27, 2020)

gmcunni said:


> some $$ back
> 
> https://www.epicpass.com/info/2019-2020-pass-holder-credit.aspx



I literally just posted in the other thread wondering about this. First glimpse this gives me alot more confidence moving forward.


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## andrec10 (Apr 27, 2020)

I'll take 140$ towards next years pass!


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## drjeff (Apr 27, 2020)

Quite happy with this! 

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## Edd (Apr 27, 2020)

That’s pretty great. They took their time with the response but totally understandable.


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## Smellytele (Apr 27, 2020)

Edd said:


> That’s pretty great. They took their time with the response but totally understandable.



Putting an end to the Class action suit? At least the actual skiers get the money and not the lawyers.


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## cdskier (Apr 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Putting an end to the Class action suit? At least the actual skiers get the money and not the lawyers.



Reading the fine print, it looks like anyone that accepts the credit also waives their right to any sort of claims as part of any existing or future lawsuit. So effectively, yes.


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## Smellytele (Apr 27, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Reading the fine print, it looks like anyone that accepts the credit also waives their right to any sort of claims as part of any existing or future lawsuit. So effectively, yes.



Good


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## Zermatt (Apr 27, 2020)

Epic's new guarantees for next season blows away IKON.  IKON will have to match.

Looks like Epic (Vail, MTN, whatever) went and bought a super expensive all risk policy that covers virtually everything.  Ikon lets me rollover the value of my pass to next season if I choose before the season even starts.


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## mbedle (Apr 27, 2020)

I would say that is a pretty nice deal.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Good
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Right.  Makes sense.


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## skef (Apr 27, 2020)

mbedle said:


> I would say that is a pretty nice deal.



Yes! I have a completely unused 4-day Epic Day Pass (a cancelled trip to Vail; had hoped to use it at Stowe) that will now pay for 3+ days next season.


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## drjeff (Apr 29, 2020)

Just a thought.... Vail took an aggressive stance on the pass assurance issue for next season because they're planning on taking an aggressive stance on COVID-19 next season.... Just a thought.....

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## snoseek (Apr 29, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Just a thought.... Vail took an aggressive stance on the pass assurance issue for next season because they're planning on taking an aggressive stance on COVID-19 next season.... Just a thought.....
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



How does this kind of thing work? Do they pay the big bucks for an Insurance policy to cover losses? That has to be a huge lump of money right?


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## ss20 (Apr 29, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Just a thought.... Vail took an aggressive stance on the pass assurance issue for next season because they're planning on taking an aggressive stance on COVID-19 next season.... Just a thought.....
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



What do they have to lose?  If we're not skiing next year then we'll be in so much economic ruin life as we know it will have ended.  

I think it's really just a mind game to generate some summer $$$.


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## Zermatt (Apr 30, 2020)

snoseek said:


> How does this kind of thing work? Do they pay the big bucks for an Insurance policy to cover losses? That has to be a huge lump of money right?



No indication MTN bought an insurance policy to backstop this...you are right, it would cost way too much.

If it fails passholders will be unsecured creditors if/when MTN goes bankrupt.  You are at the end of the line to be made whole.


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## slatham (Apr 30, 2020)

billo said:


> No indication MTN bought an insurance policy to backstop this...you are right, it would cost way too much.
> 
> If it fails passholders will be unsecured creditors if/when MTN goes bankrupt.  You are at the end of the line to be made whole.



While I still believe Vail at least got a backstop reinsurance policy, they just issued $500mm of debt (3x over subscribed) and received a 2 year grace on various covenants. Current liquidity is $1.2billion.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 30, 2020)

slatham said:


> While I still believe Vail at least got a backstop reinsurance policy,* they just issued $500mm of debt* (3x over subscribed) and received a 2 year grace on various covenants. Current liquidity is $1.2billion.



It's $600M, but hey, what's $100M when you carry as much debt as Vail.  
BofA also granted them a two-year waiver going into 2022, which is pretty generous/long.  Stock's down 33% from pre-COVID19, frankly I'm surprised it's not off more.


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## mister moose (Apr 30, 2020)

So for the few pass buyers that had a 2nd half of March trip planned, and didn't use the pass yet, Vail is offering an 80% refund?  I get pro-rating for used days, but a 20% retainage for zero days used is an epic grab.


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## kingslug (Apr 30, 2020)

Our Pass more than paid for itself...but ill take 20%.


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## drjeff (Apr 30, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Our Pass more than paid for itself...but ill take 20%.



I'm with you!

Used my for 34 days, and I'm getting 20% off of my next Epic, No complaints at all


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## kingslug (Apr 30, 2020)

I'm glad I started early this year and ended up with a damn good season. Amazingly one of my better powder years. 
But I never seem to get enough spring skiing in. And this year would have been pretty cold and frozen up there all month.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 30, 2020)

Meanwhile....

https://www.saminfo.com/headline-news/9561-vail-resorts-raises-600-million-through-bond-offering


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## machski (Apr 30, 2020)

So they basically doubled their liquidity while delaying debt requirements.  Sounds nice but given the corner they had been pushed into, they totally needed this.  They had become extremely high leveraged almost overnight as the season ended abruptly and spring pass sale revenues dried up to zilch.  They will still have a tough road ahead for the next several years.  I doubt we will see many on hill improvements for several summers at Vail resorts, not just this summer.

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## dblskifanatic (Apr 30, 2020)

p_levert said:


> I certainly agree that most class action lawsuits are frivolous and merely serve to enrich the lawyers.  I have gotten the postcards like everyone else.
> 
> OTOH, jeez, class action lawsuits are an important check on corporate power.  If not for class action, any corporation could rip people off for $1,000 or $2,000, and there would be very little recourse for consumers, because it's expensive to sue.  So class action lawsuits are not all bad.  That's all I want to say.



Yup. Corporations can rip you off the consumers get pennies back on the dollar while attorney rack in millions!  What a racket!


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## JimG. (Apr 30, 2020)

kingslug said:


> I'm glad I started early this year and ended up with a damn good season. Amazingly one of my better powder years.
> But I never seem to get enough spring skiing in. And this year would have been pretty cold and frozen up there all month.



Sounds like my season. Enjoyable while it lasted. 

My last 2 days March 8-9 at K were classic spring days sunny 45-50. And it has been a cold spring with precipitation so far.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 30, 2020)

mister moose said:


> So for the few pass buyers that had a 2nd half of March trip planned, and didn't use the pass yet, Vail is offering an 80% refund?  I get pro-rating for used days, but a 20% retainage for zero days used is an epic grab.



Probably assuming that the pass could have been used during the 80% of the season that passed.


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## thetrailboss (May 1, 2020)

machski said:


> So they basically doubled their liquidity while delaying debt requirements.  Sounds nice but given the corner they had been pushed into, they totally needed this.  They had become extremely high leveraged almost overnight as the season ended abruptly and spring pass sale revenues dried up to zilch.  They will still have a tough road ahead for the next several years.  I doubt we will see many on hill improvements for several summers at Vail resorts, not just this summer.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Just saw it mentioned on another site that the recent corporate disclosure for the SEC stated that in this transaction Vail agreed not to make any major capital improvements or acquisitions until at least January 2022.


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## machski (May 1, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Just saw it mentioned on another site that the recent corporate disclosure for the SEC stated that in this transaction Vail agreed not to make any major capital improvements or acquisitions until at least January 2022.


Not a hard decision, they are in survival mode.  I doubt they will be able to swing many upgrades or CapEx at least til then.  And I read in '22, they have like over $1B note coming due.  I think I'd dump that stock if I owned any.

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## drjeff (May 1, 2020)

Doubt corporate will let him comment anymore than their public line, but on his FB page, Mount Snow's communications director the last few seasons, Jamie Storrs, announced on his FB page that he's now Senior manager for Communications for Eastern Resorts for Vail.

Since yesterday, April 30th, was the last day the Peak Resorts existed in the corporate sense, and the date that those from Peak who Vail let know that they'd be employed through, came to an end, seems like Jamie, who's been in good guy in the times I've met him, made the cut....

Now if the new Eastern Senior Communications director wants to try and see if the possibility of Bruce Jacques playing at Brewfest this Labor Day if it happens can occur, a bunch of Mount Snow regulars would love a Jacques/Tuohy combo!!

And for those who haven't heard of Bruce Jacques, he's a live musician/comedian who regularly plays Cuzzin's at Mount Snow most weekends during the prime winter season (as well as at Wachusett and a bunch of other bars/restaurants across the Northeast year round. He's done live Happy Hour streaming concerts from his house the last 4 Fridays and raised over 40k for various food banks from viewer donations during those 4 live happy hours! 

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## BenedictGomez (May 1, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Just saw it mentioned on another site that the recent corporate disclosure for the SEC stated that* in this transaction Vail agreed not to make any major capital improvements or acquisitions until at least January 2022.*



The acquisition bit is fairly common; the no major capex bit is a little concerning, although I wonder if they put a dollar sum on "major" there?


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## thetrailboss (May 2, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The acquisition bit is fairly common; the no major capex bit is a little concerning, although I wonder if they put a dollar sum on "major" there?



The source revised the summary of the article and I looked through the filing (see page 2).  Max of $200 mill capital improvements a year.


http://investors.vailresorts.com/static-files/068599dd-a219-476d-9492-8f286d6a6a66


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## BenedictGomez (May 3, 2020)

I think that's all fairly reasonable in terms of the lender protecting itself & Vail still being able to spend on numerous projects


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## mbedle (May 3, 2020)

Didn't they have only $180 million scheduled for this year's capital improvements?


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## thetrailboss (May 3, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I think that's all fairly reasonable in terms of the lender protecting itself & Vail still being able to spend on numerous projects



Remind me....how many resorts do they own?


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## thebigo (May 3, 2020)

Vail owns 37 'mountain resorts' per wikipedia. Peaks never installed a single new lift in NH, there are some that are simply going to reach the end of their service life over the coming years. The double at crotched is now over 50 years old and it operates 12+ hours nearly every day for 4 months a year. The mountain cannot operate without the double. Another example are the doubles at attitash.


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## EPB (May 3, 2020)

thebigo said:


> Vail owns 37 'mountain resorts' per wikipedia. Peaks never installed a single new lift in NH, there are some that are simply going to reach the end of their service life over the coming years. The double at crotched is now over 50 years old and it operates 12+ hours nearly every day for 4 months a year. The mountain cannot operate without the double. Another example are the doubles at attitash.


That double at Crotched also sat idle during the closure and was refurbished when they opened back up. I also wonder about the useful lives of the Wildcat Express and Flying Yankee which are both over 20 years old and have done winter and summer duty for most of their lives.

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## mbedle (May 3, 2020)

thebigo said:


> Vail owns 37 'mountain resorts' per wikipedia. Peaks never installed a single new lift in NH, there are some that are simply going to reach the end of their service life over the coming years. The double at crotched is now over 50 years old and it operates 12+ hours nearly every day for 4 months a year. The mountain cannot operate without the double. Another example are the doubles at attitash.



Why would Crotched not be able to operate without the double?


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## thebigo (May 3, 2020)

mbedle said:


> Why would Crotched not be able to operate without the double?



They do a good beginner and never ever business, currently segregated at the carpet and double. You cannot put beginners on the top and the fgq has one of the steepest ramps i have ever seen. Moon walk and milky way are already a shit show on weekends with the double running. Seen many excellent skiers end up in the woods off milky way due to the flat light and hump that develops. Also the carpet to the quad would be a hell of a slog for someone new to skiing.

There has been talk of a true beginner trail off the top since the rocket went in but there are terrain and property ownership issues.


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## deadheadskier (May 3, 2020)

thebigo said:


> They do a good beginner and never ever business, currently segregated at the carpet and double. You cannot put beginners on the top and the fgq has one of the steepest ramps i have ever seen. Moon walk and milky way are already a shit show on weekends with the double running. Seen many excellent skiers end up in the woods off milky way due to the flat light and hump that develops. Also the carpet to the quad would be a hell of a slog for someone new to skiing.
> 
> There has been talk of a true beginner trail off the top since the rocket went in but there are terrain and property ownership issues.


Agree with all points

Crotched without the double would make it a bad place for true beginners.  

Spent more time on that chair and Supernova with my 4 year old than any other terrain in New England this winter.  Ventured over to the FG Quad a few times and it was nerve wracking in comparison. 


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## snoseek (May 3, 2020)

I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.


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## sull1102 (May 3, 2020)

snoseek said:


> I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
> All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.



That quad at Wildcat does run year round and has since it was installed so it certainly has a high hour count. You’re probably right though, a good maintenance crew who knows the machine in and out can probably it going for many years to come if parts continue to be available. 


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## xlr8r (May 4, 2020)

snoseek said:


> I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
> All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.



At Attitash they should replace the Summit with a HSQ and then move the current triple to replace both of the double doubles.  That would solve a lot of Attitash's problems.  The doubles rarely get any lines so dropping down from two doubles to a single triple in capacity should not be a problem.  Lifts on Bear Peak side are in good shape, although the bear lodge could use a interior revamp.

Crotched's double did get a new drive when the mountain reopened, so most of the mechanics are less than 20 years old.  Also Hall lifts were very well built and many of similar vintage are still running, just look at Smuggs.


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## thetrailboss (May 4, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> At Attitash they should replace the Summit with a HSQ and then move the current triple to replace both of the double doubles.  That would solve a lot of Attitash's problems.  The doubles rarely get any lines so dropping down from two doubles to a single triple in capacity should not be a problem.  Lifts on Bear Peak side are in good shape, although the bear lodge could use a interior revamp.
> 
> Crotched's double did get a new drive when the mountain reopened, so most of the mechanics are less than 20 years old.  Also Hall lifts were very well built and many of similar vintage are still running, just look at Smuggs.



One would think that with Attitash's location in the MWV, and the year-round business that they "had" built up that Vail would see this as a good investment.  That said, I have not skied Attitash in a long time and have not been there in 9 years or so.  Had Peak run it into the ground such that the summer business is gone?  I know about the drama with the Summit Lift.  I also know that they did a lackluster job with one of their hotels on the Bear Peak side.


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## xlr8r (May 4, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> One would think that with Attitash's location in the MWV, and the year-round business that they "had" built up that Vail would see this as a good investment.  That said, I have not skied Attitash in a long time and have not been there in 9 years or so.  Had Peak run it into the ground such that the summer business is gone?  I know about the drama with the Summit Lift.  I also know that they did a lackluster job with one of their hotels on the Bear Peak side.



Peak did add a zipline and expand mountain biking to Bear Peak in recent years, but I have no idea how well they do business wise in the summer.  Peak let go of any remaining stake in the Grand Summit, it is now entirely owned and operated by the timeshare owners.  Prior to Covid, I really thought that business at Attitash will grow under Vail as there is really no more growth left in the Epic Pass resorts in Vermont, all three are maxed out capacity wise.  Attititash therefore is the overflow destination resort that Boston area families might turn to to avoid the crowds at Mount Snow, Okemo, and Stowe.  Now with Covid, who knows.


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## EPB (May 4, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> Peak did add a zipline and expand mountain biking to Bear Peak in recent years, but I have no idea how well they do business wise in the summer.  Peak let go of any remaining stake in the Grand Summit, it is now entirely owned and operated by the timeshare owners.  Prior to Covid, I really thought that business at Attitash will grow under Vail as there is really no more growth left in the Epic Pass resorts in Vermont, all three are maxed out capacity wise.  Attititash therefore is the overflow destination resort that Boston area families might turn to to avoid the crowds at Mount Snow, Okemo, and Stowe.  Now with Covid, who knows.



Agreed  My guess has been the plan was to try to drive as much Boston area weekend traffic to the MWV/Stowe as possible given how big crowds have reportedly gotten at Snow and Okemo. Vail had/has an acreage problem in VT.

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## EPB (May 4, 2020)

snoseek said:


> I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
> All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.


The guy who built New England Ski History and related sites used to post here a lot. From what I remember, he had industry experience and said that running lifts above freezing depreciates them much faster than when running them below freezing in normal winter conditions. 

When you look at how many places have replaced their mid/late 80s era high speed lifts that didn't run long summer hours, it makes me wonder how much gas the 1997 Wildcat Express has in the tank. 

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## ss20 (May 4, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> The guy who built New England Ski History and related sites used to post here a lot. From what I remember, he had industry experience and said that running lifts above freezing depreciates them much faster than when running them below freezing in normal winter conditions.
> 
> When you look at how many places have replaced their mid/late 80s era high speed lifts that didn't run long summer hours, it makes me wonder how much gas the 1997 Wildcat Express has in the tank.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



I've never heard about lift maintenance regarding temperatures.  I can see in warmer temps the lubricant on the sheaves wears faster and perhaps leading to early sheave re-builds but that's hypothetical on my end.  

Truthfully I find this hard to believe, where's Newpylong?


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## thetrailboss (May 4, 2020)

ss20 said:


> I've never heard about lift maintenance regarding temperatures.  I can see in warmer temps the lubricant on the sheaves wears faster and perhaps leading to early sheave re-builds but that's hypothetical on my end.
> 
> Truthfully I find this hard to believe, where's Newpylong?



I'm skeptical as well.


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## jimmywilson69 (May 4, 2020)

yeah I've never heard of something degrading faster when running in warm temperatures.  I would think the colder temperatures would be much harder on it.   I've also never designed, constructed, or operated a lift  :lol:


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## tumbler (May 4, 2020)

My guess is it has to do with keeping the motor room cool.


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## EPB (May 4, 2020)

tumbler said:


> My guess is it has to do with keeping the motor room cool.


I took a quick look to try to find it and came up empty. I thought the gist was that lifts like the one at wildcat are designed to be run in cold weather. Tensioning and sheave wear might have been it, but this was probably 8-10 years ago and I don't recall exactly. This is certainly not in my wheelhouse.

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## ss20 (May 4, 2020)

Perhaps it was regarding older detachable lifts.  Most of the detach lifts from the 80s use mechanical chain-like systems to accelerate/deccelerate and move the cabins/chairs through the terminals.  My understanding is that extreme enough temperatures will cause the "chain system" to shrink in the cold and that messes things up.  Hence on any modern detachable you'll see tires used to move the carrier through the terminal.  

The only lifts here in the East I can think of that still use this method are Stratton's gondola and the North Ridge chair at Sugarbush.  There's definitely more, those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.


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## EPB (May 4, 2020)

ss20 said:


> Perhaps it was regarding older detachable lifts.  Most of the detach lifts from the 80s use mechanical chain-like systems to accelerate/deccelerate and move the cabins/chairs through the terminals.  My understanding is that extreme enough temperatures will cause the "chain system" to shrink in the cold and that messes things up.  Hence on any modern detachable you'll see tires used to move the carrier through the terminal.
> 
> The only lifts here in the East I can think of that still use this method are Stratton's gondola and the North Ridge chair at Sugarbush.  There's definitely more, those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.


I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.

Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.

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## kbroderick (May 4, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.
> 
> Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



I think it's worth noting that there are a lot of fixed-grip lifts that are more or less ancient but still functioning on a daily basis throughout the country. With regular maintenance (some of which is admittedly major) and upkeep, many ski areas—especially those with smaller capex budgets—have pretty good reliability records with such lifts. If you don't *need* more uphill capacity or a quicker uphill trip, they often work pretty damn well.

I'd be hopeful that as detachable-lift tech has matured, the same will become true for detachable lifts.

I'd name a few that I've skied at, but I'd be afraid I might jinx something.


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## xlr8r (May 4, 2020)

The Wildcat Express does still regularly run at 1100 ft/min, at least on the days I was there this past year.  This implies that the lift is still in good shape and very well maintained.  If the lift was starting to get old and worn, Wildcat would run it at a slower speed.  In fact most HSQs only have a top speed of 1000 ft/min, and most are regularly run at only 800 or 900 ft/min.


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## thebigo (May 4, 2020)

I have always wondered about hsdq speed. There are definitely some that feel slower: White peaks, Peabody, panorama, superstar and bear are some the come to mind. Whereas wildcat, yankee, spear and rocket leave the opposite impression.


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## andrec10 (May 4, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.
> 
> Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.
> 
> ...




You mean Hunter West. It was upgraded to tires from chains when it was moved from the front side. Hunter North is a brand new 6 pack from Leitner Poma.


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## sull1102 (May 4, 2020)

thebigo said:


> I have always wondered about hsdq speed. There are definitely some that feel slower: White peaks, Peabody, panorama, superstar and bear are some the come to mind. Whereas wildcat, yankee, spear and rocket leave the opposite impression.



Funny, I feel like White Peaks is quick but Panorama took a good bit. Probably felt that way due to White Peaks being essentially base to summit while Panorama is “mid mountain.”


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## EPB (May 5, 2020)

andrec10 said:


> You mean Hunter West. It was upgraded to tires from chains when it was moved from the front side. Hunter North is a brand new 6 pack from Leitner Poma.



Exactly. I get way more confused with the directions at Hunter than I should.


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## machski (May 5, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.
> 
> Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


Tremblant' Versant Solei HSQ is chain cadenced in the terminal as is Loon's Gondola.

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