# Death at Stratton



## thetrailboss (Mar 24, 2014)

Details are few and far between.  

Sounds like he was a beginner and lost control and hit a sign.  

Thoughts and prayers for the family.  

http://www.wcax.com/story/25058036/mass-teenager-dies-after-vt-snowboarding-crash


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2014)

Another young one.  So sad

RIP


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## dlague (Mar 24, 2014)

Another trail sign hit!  That is like the third or fourth death from hitting a trail sign!  Really sad to hear!  So very very young!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Powda (Mar 24, 2014)

Very sad. My thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends.


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## xlr8r (Mar 24, 2014)

So sad, especially because I was there and didn't even know it happened until now.  Definitely makes me rethink how aggressively I ski sometimes.  

It happened on the 91 trail which is a mostly flat traverse over to the bottom of the Sun Bowl that goes by a bunch of homes and condos.  I did notice that they had it roped off on Saturday with 2 ski patrollers stopping people from going on it, but I had no idea it was because of this.  I wonder why he was over there if this really was his first time, as it is far away from the beginner area.  It is not an easy trail to go down by mistake as it is far off to the side below the base of URSA.  Maybe he and his friends were staying in a condo off that trail.  Also if he ended up at Sun Bowl, he would have had to take a blue down from the top of Sunrise Express to get back to the main side of the mountain.


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## from_the_NEK (Mar 24, 2014)

I wonder if the migration of trail signs from trees down onto 4x4 wood post mounted sign boards has added an additional risk to the slopes?


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## drjeff (Mar 24, 2014)

Must of been either before 11:30 or after about 2, as from having been at Bromley on Saturday, there's no way the medical helicopter from Dartmouth/Hitchcock could of landed at Stratton during the squall that rolled through mid-day. Such a sad thing...


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## Highway Star (Mar 24, 2014)

Looks like a classic case of an athletic teen getting in over their head with the speeds involved in skiing/boarding....rip.....

http://bluedevilsathletics.com/wrestling
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rip-tommy-hoang/1429592137280494


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## Tin (Mar 25, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Looks like a classic case of an athletic teen getting in over their head with the speeds involved in skiing/boarding....rip.....
> 
> http://bluedevilsathletics.com/wrestling
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rip-tommy-hoang/1429592137280494



Mods please delete this disrespectful crap.


A tragic accident, thoughts to his family and friends.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

from_the_NEK said:


> I wonder if the migration of trail signs from trees down onto 4x4 wood post mounted sign boards has added an additional risk to the slopes?



What was wrong with wooden signs nailed to a tree?


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## fbrissette (Mar 25, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> What was wrong with wooden signs nailed to a tree?



But they would hurt the tree !  Vermont probably has a regulation to protect trees from undue pain and suffering.


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## drjeff (Mar 25, 2014)

fbrissette said:


> But they would hurt the tree !  Vermont probably has a regulation to protect trees from undue pain and suffering.



Unless of course the "pain and suffering" of said tree is caused by a maple syrup tap   For now at least...


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## from_the_NEK (Mar 25, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> What was wrong with wooden signs nailed to a tree?



I never had an issue with signs in trees and was always able to find my way around just fine. However, I would guess that signs mounted to dimensioned  wooden posts that have flat sides are a lot easier to maintain/replace than a sign mounted 10 feet up in a tree. Additionally with a tree you only have a small area where the sign meets the tree where screws or nails can be used to hang the sign. This limits how large the sign can be before it becomes so large that wind can easily rip it out of the tree. The newer setup, where signs are mounted on two posts allows for a much more stable mounting area for the signs.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

from_the_NEK said:


> I never had an issue with signs in trees and was always able to find my way around just fine. However, I would guess that signs mounted to dimensioned  wooden posts that have flat sides are a lot easier to maintain/replace than a sign mounted 10 feet up in a tree. Additionally with a tree you only have a small area where the sign meets the tree where screws or nails can be used to hang the sign. This limits how large the sign can be before it becomes so large that wind can easily rip it out of the tree. The newer setup, where signs are mounted on two posts allows for a much more stable mounting area for the signs.



Who needs it 10 feet in the air? MRG and Magic do fine with it. I'm sure there are others too. Hell, a lot of the trails at both of those mountains don't even have trail signs. Map reading skills has really fallen by the wayside but that's a whole different discussion


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## from_the_NEK (Mar 25, 2014)

Okay, we're getting a bit off topic here...       Anyway....     10 feet isn't really that high, but 8 feet is likely plenty high enough in most places. Like I said, the tree mount is just fine with me and (IMO) it has historically worked well. However, like you said map reading skills have declined and the general public "expects" the resorts to hold their hand as much as possible to get them around the mountain. Having "huge" signs with VERY clear directions on them have become the standard in the last 5-10 years. I'm not saying it is a good or bad thing but just pointing out that there are now additional obstacles at trail intersections for people to run into.


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## drjeff (Mar 25, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Who needs it 10 feet in the air? MRG and Magic do fine with it. I'm sure there are others too. Hell, a lot of the trails at both of those mountains don't even have trail signs. Map reading skills has really fallen by the wayside but that's a whole different discussion



Could it be a general trail width issue that nowadays seems to necessitate a larger trail sign that can be read from often 100+ feet away whereas in the past with generally narrower trails one was often much closer to the trail sign, regardless of where they stopped near the entrance to a trail?


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## drjeff (Mar 25, 2014)

from_the_NEK said:


> Okay, we're getting a bit off topic here...       Anyway....     10 feet isn't really that high, but 8 feet is likely plenty high enough in most places. Like I said, the tree mount is just fine with me and (IMO) it has historically worked well. However, like you said map reading skills have declined and the general public "expects" the resorts to hold their hand as much as possible to get them around the mountain. Having "huge" signs with VERY clear directions on them have become the standard in the last 5-10 years. I'm not saying it is a good or bad thing but just pointing out that there are now additional obstacles at trail intersections for people to run into.



I think that 10 feet off the dry ground is needed, since if you add 3+ feet of base to the ground, then that 10 feet can turn into say 5 to 7 feet, at which point it could much more easily be obscured by someone who stops in front of it


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## Highway Star (Mar 25, 2014)

Tin said:


> Mods please delete this disrespectful crap.
> 
> A tragic accident, thoughts to his family and friends.



Feel free to _pound sand. 

_While this is a tragic event, people, especially beginners/intermediates, need to be more aware of the speeds involved and results of a loss of control in the wrong spot.  



> *B. RELEASE OF LIABILITY.
> 
> *I understand there are risks, dangers and hazards associated with the sport of skiing for which this equipment is to be used, which may result in serious personal injury or death and that injuries are a common and ordinary occurrence. Risks include, but are not limited to, changes in terrain, weather and snow surfaces, ice, moguls, bare spots, debris, fences, posts, trees, chairlift and surface lift equipment and towers, light poles, signs, buildings, roads and walkways, ramps, padded and non-padded barriers or obstacles, rails, boxes, pole jams, jumps and other terrain features (including the angle and length of their approaches, take-off ramps and landing areas) both in and out of the terrain park, snowmaking and grooming equipment and operations, snowmobile operations, collisions with other persons and collisions with other natural and man-made hazards, including collisions with obstacles adjacent to and off the skiable terrain, such as snowmaking pipes, hydrants, guns, wands, and other snowmaking equipment, rocks and trees, and improperly-adjusted or malfunctioning equipment. I acknowledge the risks in the sport of skiing can be greatly reduced by taking lessons, abiding by the Skier Responsibility Code (known as Your Responsibility Code), obeying the Wisconsin Skier Safety Act, and using common sense.
> 
> ...


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## C-Rex (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm not saying I totally agree with Highway Star but I get what he's saying.  Everytime something like this happens, people come up with all sorts of knee-jerk reactions thinking that some change will ensure it never happens again.  The fact is skiing and snowboarding are dangerous sports.  It ultimately comes down to the responsibility of the person to ensure their own safety.  If the sign post wasn't there, it could've been a tree, or a rock, or another person, etc.  There is no way to make the sport 100% safe. All we can do is educate ourselves, wear protective equipment, and do our best to minimize risks.  But the fact remains that even with all that, injuries and deaths will still happen.  If you can't handle that, stay home.

I'm really tired of the way our society tries to assign blame for every injury or death that occurs, and never want to say it was the victims fault, especially if the person is young.  I don't know nearly enough about this incident to comment on it in particular.  But very often, it is the victim's decisions and actions that lead to their demise.  My heart goes out to this kid's friends and family.  I'm sure they are devastated, but assigning undue blame will not bring their son back and it will not prevent the accident from happening.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

Just because all skiers agree to this release of liability doesn't mean that the resort shouldn't try to mitigate risk. It's bad publicity to have someone die at your mountain....period


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

drjeff said:


> Could it be a general trail width issue that nowadays seems to necessitate a larger trail sign that can be read from often 100+ feet away whereas in the past with generally narrower trails one was often much closer to the trail sign, regardless of where they stopped near the entrance to a trail?



I guess that's a possibility but when did they really start getting in to using larger trail signs on the ground....10 years at the most? I really don't think a whole lot of trails have been widened or built in that time frame. Maybe it's just bad luck but I think these trails signs are put in places where people tend to gravitate to like a split in a trail.


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## HD333 (Mar 25, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I'm not saying I totally agree with Highway Star but I get what he's saying.  Everytime something like this happens, people come up with all sorts of knee-jerk reactions thinking that some change will ensure it never happens again.  The fact is skiing and snowboarding are dangerous sports.  It ultimately comes down to the responsibility of the person to ensure their own safety.  If the sign post wasn't there, it could've been a tree, or a rock, or another person, etc.  There is no way to make the sport 100% safe. All we can do is educate ourselves, wear protective equipment, and do our best to minimize risks.  But the fact remains that even with all that, injuries and deaths will still happen.  If you can't handle that, stay home.
> 
> I'm really tired of the way our society tries to assign blame for every injury or death that occurs, and never want to say it was the victims fault, especially if the person is young.  I don't know nearly enough about this incident to comment on it in particular.  But very often, it is the victim's decisions and actions that lead to their demise.  My heart goes out to this kid's friends and family.  I'm sure they are devastated, but assigning undue blame will not bring their son back and it will not prevent the accident from happening.



First off vibes to this young kids family + friends.

I agree with C-Rex, we all know skiing/boarding is a risk.  I was riding the lift with a buddy this season who is a diehard skier and out of the blue he blurts out, that skiing/boarding is crazy if you think about it.  We hurl ourselves down/off things as fast/high as we can in freezing cold temperatures often on sheets of ice.  

Skiing/riding is a risk we all take, I do not think we can point the blame at a resort having a sign attached to a piece of wood, on the flip side if signs were not there people could blindly go on trails above their ability and increase the risk of injury.


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## Euler (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm sad for the family and friends of this young man.  Sorry this happened.


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## tekweezle (Mar 25, 2014)

So sad. I skied past the accident. Can't figure out how it happened. 91 is kind of a flat traverse that leads to condos and the sun bowl area. It's not easy to cruise on it at high speed either because the snow at the time of the day when this happened (around noon) was kind of sticky. When we passed the accident I thought maybe the victim fell into a tree well. 

Oh well.... Condolences to the family. 

Another accident on another part of that trail the next day, snowboarder broke his collarbone. I don't know if he collided with anyone since he was alone with just a ski patrol guy putting his arm into a sling. 

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk


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## Tin (Mar 25, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I'm really tired of the way our society tries to assign blame for every injury or death that occurs, and never want to say it was the victims fault, especially if the person is young.  I don't know nearly enough about this incident to comment on it in particular.  But very often, it is the victim's decisions and actions that lead to their demise.



I completely agree but to go hunting down info about the victim who is an underage kid to make a slippery slope-like point is just bs.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 25, 2014)

Just because the skier signed a release or implicitly agreed to the risks doesn't make this not a sad story....Very sad loss for the family 

R.I.P


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2014)

Again, thoughts and prayers for the family.  

The "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" regarding the deceased is in poor taste.  We've had many other threads that discuss this topic and that would have been a more appropriate rather than speculating about what the decedent did or did not do on that day and/or his experience or lack thereof based on stereotypes.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 25, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Again, thoughts and prayers for the family.
> 
> The "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" regarding the deceased is in poor taste.  We've had many other threads that discuss this topic and that would have been a more appropriate rather than speculating about what the decedent did or did not do on that day and/or his experience or lack thereof based on stereotypes.



+1


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## C-Rex (Mar 25, 2014)

Tin said:


> I completely agree but to go hunting down info about the victim who is an underage kid to make a slippery slope-like point is just bs.



Agreed.  I didn't know what the links were.  I couldn't access them from work.


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## ss20 (Mar 25, 2014)

HD333 said:


> Skiing is crazy if you think about it.  We hurl ourselves down/off things as fast/high as we can in freezing cold temperatures often on sheets of ice.



Can I quote you on this and put it in my sig?


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## Highway Star (Mar 25, 2014)

Tin said:


> I completely agree but to go hunting down info about the victim who is an underage kid to make a slippery slope-like point is just bs.



Again, _pound sand_.

This kid was a real person, not a news story.  Real people make mistakes sometimes, and bad things happen.  Pointing out that mistake is not disrespectful, learning from them means they did not die in vain and honors their memory.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Again, _pound sand_.
> 
> This kid was a real person, not a news story.  Real people make mistakes sometimes, and bad things happen.  Pointing out that mistake is not disrespectful, learning from them honors their memory.



Don't go away mad...just go away.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2014)

So, a tragic accident = a mistake?

What are you suggesting?  The kid never try snowboarding at all?  You were a beginner once too Highwaystar and probably skied on similar terrain and wiped out.  WE ALL DID. The only difference between us and this poor kid is pretty much bad luck on his part.  There's no indication that he was riding dangerously and that was the cause of his tragic accident.

But, seriously KEVIN.  For someone who gets completely pissed when others use your own first name on the internet, it's pretty darn bad form to go looking up and posting Facebook profiles and HS sports info on someone who is deceased.  

Think about it.........


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

Nice to meet you Kev! You don't mind if I call you that right Kevie?


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## Highway Star (Mar 25, 2014)

Reported posts, harassment.


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## Highway Star (Mar 25, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> So, a tragic accident = a mistake?
> 
> What are you suggesting?  The kid never try snowboarding at all?  You were a beginner once too Highwaystar and probably skied on similar terrain and wiped out.  WE ALL DID. The only difference between us and this poor kid is pretty much bad luck on his part.  There's no indication that he was riding dangerously and that was the cause of his tragic accident.
> 
> ...



That's Highway Star to you.  Please remain professional as a moderator.  Thanks.  Some of us chose to not publish our lives on the internet.  Probably smarter that way.

Nothing wrong with pointing out publicly available evidence that this kid was an accomplished athlete with a public profile, considering that this was an accident involving an athletic endeavor.

Many people survived learning how to ski, ride a bike, drive a car, use power tools and such.  A small percentage of people died or were maimed, unfortunately, or had near misses.  Calling these events an "accident" is really a misnomer, externalizing the event does no good.  Engaging in an inherently risky activity without having the proper training and sustained situational awareness results in mistakes, where injuries occur.  These are not accidents.  Perhaps luck is on the side of many people, and near misses occur, which should also be learned from.


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## Gilligan (Mar 25, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> ...


And a new low had been reached by a AlpineZone moderator. Seriously, DHS, what is wrong with you?


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

Life sucks when someone finally gets under your skin. If you dish it out you should be able to take it Gilligan. Get over it, it's not like he posted his home address or SSN. It was his freaking first name


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2014)

Yup a new low. :lol:  called someone their first name who's trolled for years on this forum without care for pissing anyone off and now he's crying about it.  Shame on me


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## Highway Star (Mar 25, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Yup a new low. :lol:  called someone their first name who's trolled for years on this forum without care for pissing anyone off and now he's crying about it.  Shame on me



^Reported post.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

You do realize it will be reported to him right?


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## Gilligan (Mar 25, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Yup a new low. :lol:  called someone their first name who's trolled for years on this forum without care for pissing anyone off and now he's crying about it.  Shame on me


Delete his post if you do not like it. What you are doing is making things worse, not better.


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## Tin (Mar 25, 2014)

Bravo Deadhead.

Me thinky Gilligan might also be named Kevin. ;-)


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 25, 2014)

I think it's making it much better.


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## Gilligan (Mar 25, 2014)

Tin said:


> Bravo Deadhead.
> 
> Me thinky Gilligan might also be named Kevin. ;-)


Checking my old posts would quickly convince anyone that I most certainly am not HS.


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## bobbutts (Mar 25, 2014)

DHS has always been a douche bag.  What a load of crap about the sensitivity for this dead kid that started this whole thing.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> DHS has always been a douche bag.  What a load of crap about the sensitivity for this dead kid that started this whole thing.



Wow, really?  A kid died.  Thoughts and prayers for the family is appropriate--not slamming the deceased.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 25, 2014)

What's the point of speculation if it can't be proven? How is anyone learning from anything? It's sad all around and making speculation that may or may not be true doesn't help....anything

It is sad, and should be left at that


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2014)

Speaking of "speculation", is there anything more than that at this point?  Usually we know something by now.  While these deaths are always (obviously) tragic, I do like to know how/why they occurred, to perhaps learn something of the matter.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 26, 2014)

Yet to see any follow up reports. All of them say pretty much the same thing from yesterday


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## C-Rex (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm not defending HS posting the links, I wouldn't have done that, BUT...  Saying this kid made a mistake is not an insult to the deceased.  We all do it.  The best skiers and riders in the world do it, and often.  It doesn't imply that he was stupid or ignorant, or anything like that.  It just means that he made a move, probably with the best intentions, and it didn't work out.  It's a tragedy that it cost him his life, but that's the way the world is.  Saying that he MAY have been responsible for his own death is not disrespectful, and it's ridiculously over-sensitive to view it that way.

For the record:  If I die on the mountain (I really can't think of a better place, I just hope it's not too soon), feel free to call it like it is.  If I effed-up, I effed-up.  I don't claim to be perfect.  We all take risks, sometimes in the name of progression, sometimes in the name of glory.  Statistically, they can't all work out.  The best we can do is make an educated calculation of that risk and do our best to minimize it.  As long as we take those risks knowingly, no one can tell us we're fools.


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## C-Rex (Mar 26, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Speaking of "speculation", is there anything more than that at this point? Usually we know something by now. While these deaths are always (obviously) tragic, I do like to know how/why they occurred, to perhaps learn something of the matter.



I agree, I'd like to learn something from it. I'd like to know if he was wearing a helmet, if speed was an issue, etc. Just saying he died snowboarding does nothing but put a black mark on the sport and the resort. It's important to know the facts.

Sorry for the double post.


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## drjeff (Mar 26, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I agree, I'd like to learn something from it. I'd like to know if he was wearing a helmet, if speed was an issue, etc. Just saying he died snowboarding does nothing but put a black mark on the sport and the resort. It's important to know the facts.
> 
> Sorry for the double post.



That's the thing with these unfortunate events.  Unless a criminal case is pursued, you rarely hear the surrounding facts associated with what happened on the hill, unless the family chooses to release them and a media outlet has enough interest to run the story. And for many obvious reasons the family who lost a loved one often doesn't choose to release that information to a media outlet.

Even if you say know a patroller who was there, for patient confidentiality reasons, you often won't get more than a moderate account of what happened, since #1 if a patroller is on scene, they're far more concerned with attending to the injured person than taking into account the surrounding scene and potential scenario that caused it


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## dlague (Mar 26, 2014)

I have been curious about how this could have happened in this area and how the trial signs are setup along that trail.  I have never skied there so I am blind with the exception of a trail map that shows that as a green area where this tragic incident took place.  I did find a video that shows that trail and the signs are some times padded and other times not.  The trail does slant a little which can be problematic for beginner snowboarders.

I hope know one objects to me posting the video but I think helps to under stand the where!  Ursa Access to 91 and the 91 trail.


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## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I agree, I'd like to learn something from it. I'd like to know if he was wearing a helmet, if speed was an issue, etc. Just saying he died snowboarding does nothing but put a black mark on the sport and the resort. It's important to know the facts.



I agree.   Digging into the details is a necessary evil IMO.   If you follow avalanche forums/websites, the same debate occurs after every death.   Learning from other's mistakes is important to improve awareness.  Most avalanche deaths result from series of mistakes and I think the same would apply to most ski resorts deaths (speed, snow conditions, skier traffic, bad positioning of trail signs, helmet, etc...). 

I don't think it is disrespectful to second guess actions once you have facts.  I feel real bad that our sport has taken another life, but learning from this sad event might end up helping save another life down the road.


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## tekweezle (Mar 26, 2014)

We won't know the detail until someone who witnessed it comes forward.   I skied past the scene as the ski patrol was tending to the fallen boarder.   I believe the accident occurred at the sign around the 2 minute 36 second point in the video. 

I don't believe the snowboarder could have been going fast.  It's possible that either he snowboarded too close to the edge/lip and fell forward into the sign or trees or maybe even got clipped from behind by someone who was moving faster than him.   I believe he was on the south side of the trail under the sign.

There was a snowboard that was lying at the bottom of the trail(it starts to get steeper at that point) . Could have been the fallen snowboarder's, someone at the scene or a ski patrol persons. 

You'll notice in the video before the 2 minute 36 mark, the video Grapher slows down-it's really flat and slightly up hill so it would be hard to fly down that stretch unless you already had a head of steam. That's something a beginner snowboarder wouldn't be able to do in my opinion. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## thetrailboss (Mar 26, 2014)

fbrissette said:


> I agree.   Digging into the details is a necessary evil IMO.   If you follow avalanche forums/websites, the same debate occurs after every death.   Learning from other's mistakes is important to improve awareness.  Most avalanche deaths result from series of mistakes and I think the same would apply to most ski resorts deaths (speed, snow conditions, skier traffic, bad positioning of trail signs, helmet, etc...).
> 
> I don't think it is disrespectful to second guess actions once you have facts.  I feel real bad that our sport has taken another life, but learning from this sad event might end up helping save another life down the road.



Right, but that is NOT what was happening here.


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## Highway Star (Mar 26, 2014)

tekweezle said:


> We won't know the detail until someone who witnessed it comes forward.   I skied past the scene as the ski patrol was tending to the fallen boarder.   I believe the accident occurred at the sign around the 2 minute 36 second point in the video.
> 
> I don't believe the snowboarder could have been going fast.  It's possible that either he snowboarded too close to the edge/lip and fell forward into the sign or trees or maybe even got clipped from behind by someone who was moving faster than him.   I believe he was on the south side of the trail under the sign.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the details.  Looks like a mixed use connector trail similar to many at Killington (GE, GN, Bear Cub, etc).  IMHO, first day skiers and snowboarders have no business being on this type of terrain.  Being able to control speed while dealing with other skier traffic is critical on a narrow trail such as this.  Most mountain's beginner programs keep people on specific beginner slopes until they are ready for the rest of the mountain and it's hazards.


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## drjeff (Mar 26, 2014)

tekweezle said:


> We won't know the detail until someone who witnessed it comes forward.   I skied past the scene as the ski patrol was tending to the fallen boarder.   I believe the accident occurred at the sign around the 2 minute 36 second point in the video.
> 
> I don't believe the snowboarder could have been going fast.  It's possible that either he snowboarded too close to the edge/lip and fell forward into the sign or trees or maybe even got clipped from behind by someone who was moving faster than him.   I believe he was on the south side of the trail under the sign.
> 
> ...



You also have to remember, as was the case with Actress Nastasia Henstridge (?sp) who was killed after a fall on the beginner slope at I believe Mount Tremblant, a few years ago. She was a beginner, not going very fast, but fell in a way and hit her head that caused some bleeding on her brain, which increased the pressure inside of her skull before it could be relieved at a trauma center and caused her passing.  Sometimes it not the speed that is the issue, but just a weird way that a person falls that is what lead to the unfortunate event


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## ScottySkis (Mar 26, 2014)

Another sad day, all prayers and thoughts to his family and friends.


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## fbrissette (Mar 26, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Right, but that is NOT what was happening here.



Some of the posts are reasonable, some not.


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## hammer (Mar 26, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Most mountain's beginner programs keep people on specific beginner slopes until they are ready for the rest of the mountain and it's hazards.


That's great until the instruction period is over and the now "trained" beginner decides he/she wants to explore the mountain with more experienced friends or family.  The vast majority of the time that works out fine, but unfortunately if that was the case here it tragically did not.

I'm sure we have seen similar setups where parents take their novice kid who can barely snowplow down a narrow blue or worse.  I was checking out videos of Magic's Slide of Hans the other day and I spotted and watched a video of novice kids going down (and one falling on) Upper Wizard.  Even though that trail is flat up top it's definitely not one I'd take a novice down, but I'm sure parents or friends have coaxed kids down that trail when they had no business on it.


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## Highway Star (Mar 26, 2014)

drjeff said:


> You also have to remember, as was the case with Actress Natasha Henstridge (?sp) who was killed after a fall on the beginner slope at I believe Mount Tremblant, a few years ago. She was a beginner, not going very fast, but fell in a way and hit her head that caused some bleeding on her brain, which increased the pressure inside of her skull before it could be relieved at a trauma center and caused her passing.  Sometimes it not the speed that is the issue, but just a weird way that a person falls that is what lead to the unfortunate event



It's Richardson....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson

Her death could really be considered a freak accident.  People hit their hear all the time and don't have that kind of internal bleading.


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## spiderpig (Mar 26, 2014)

drjeff said:


> You also have to remember, as was the case with Actress Nastasia Henstridge (?sp) who was killed after a fall on the beginner slope at I believe Mount Tremblant, a few years ago. She was a beginner, not going very fast, but fell in a way and hit her head that caused some bleeding on her brain, which increased the pressure inside of her skull before it could be relieved at a trauma center and caused her passing.  Sometimes it not the speed that is the issue, but just a weird way that a person falls that is what lead to the unfortunate event



Yes, I was just going to say something like this. A pre-existing condition in the body could have contributed, so a fall doing anything could have resulted in injury or death (assuming no helmet here). The remote nature of being on a mountain and not having help readily available is a factor. Sad to hear.


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## drjeff (Mar 26, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> It's Richardson....
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson
> 
> Her death could really be considered a freak accident.  People hit their hear all the time and don't have that kind of internal bleading.



Thanks for the correction on the name HS!

And you're right about it being a freak accident in her case.  But everyone now and then someone "wins the lottery" or "gets struck by lightning" too.  That's the things with odds and risk.  You can have the odds of something happening or the risk of something happening be extremely small, but ultimately it's not 0.  For example from current events, about 3 weeks ago would anyone really have believed that a 777 could "vanish" for 2+ weeks???


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## SKidds (Mar 26, 2014)

Thoughts and prayers to the friends and family.  Such a loss, like the recent one at Whiteface, is always tragic, no matter the circumstances.  Regardless of what one believes, we can all agree that they need support at a time like this, not that we can actually do anything for them.

I do agree/believe that the best we can do to honor the deceased and his family in a case like this is to try and learn from the event, if we can, and do our best to help prevent a similar tragedy from happening to someone else, be it through personal awareness or educating others.  That is why I'm curious as to what happened in this case, and this one has me scratching my head given the location.  I'm not sure there is any parallel to the Natasia Richardson incident, as she died 2 days after the incident from bleeding that might (we don't know for sure) have been prevented with a helmet.  This death seems to have been immediate (yes, he was revived). Wondering if being found under the trail sign could have been a coincidence, and maybe there was some other natural cause that stole this young life.  Just doesn't seem like anyone could have been skiing/riding fast enough there to cause the kind of traumatic injury that would result in instant death.  If the deceased was having some kind of health related distress, the place he ended up would be a logical place to pull over and stop.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 26, 2014)

fbrissette said:


> Some of the posts are reasonable, some not.



I think that is a fair assessment.


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## Glenn (Mar 26, 2014)

I was surprised that it happened on that trail. 91 is a fairly flat trail that winds by some condos; eventually coming out near the tubing hill on the Sunbowl side of the mountain. The trail starts basically at the bottom of the Ursa lift.


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## tekweezle (Mar 26, 2014)

I think this intersection is where the accident occurred. 

I have never noticed or skied on the blue trail connecting to it but if the boarder or someone else as came from that direction and lost control then who knows what could have happened. 

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk


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## WWF-VT (Mar 26, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> Another sad day, all prayers and thoughts to his family and friends.



This is all that is needed to be said in this entire thread


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## C-Rex (Mar 28, 2014)

Anyone know if he was wearing a helmet?  This seems like a perfect example of a case where the victim suffered an injury that a helmet would have prevented.  I'm not trying to say anything negative about the deceased, but it would be great if his death made some people realize that protecting your head is important, even if it won't save you from everything.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> Anyone know if he was wearing a helmet?  This seems like a perfect example of a case where the victim suffered an injury that a helmet would have prevented.  I'm not trying to say anything negative about the deceased, but it would be great if his death made some people realize that protecting your head is important, even if it won't save you from everything.



Well.....

You'd be surprised as to the limitations of a helmet.


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## fbrissette (Mar 28, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Well.....
> 
> You'd be surprised as to the limitations of a helmet.



Despite the limitations, if my head had to meet a wooden post, I would take my chances with the helmet.


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## C-Rex (Mar 28, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Well.....
> 
> You'd be surprised as to the limitations of a helmet.



You'd also be surprised at the protection they can provide.


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## hammer (Mar 28, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> You'd be surprised as to the limitations of a helmet.





C-Rex said:


> You'd also be surprised at the protection they can provide.



Agree with both statements.

IMO helmets are more important for beginners because they usually ski in situations and speeds where they can have the most benefit.

That said, while I'm not sure they would be much help at Tunaspeed(TM), since we all don't ski that fast all the time I think helmets are of use no matter what skill level.


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## SKidds (Mar 28, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> This seems like a perfect example of a case where the victim suffered an injury that a helmet would have prevented.


I'm a helmet advocate, too.....but have you seen more details regarding this incident that I haven't?  Do we have enough info to make that kind of statement?  In any collision I'd rather take my chances with a helmet than without....but it isn't always going to save you.  Too many unknown circumstances in this one make me wonder if it wasn't a traumatic head injury, a neck injury, or other heath issue that stole this life.....and those are the types of things for which a helmet may not be particularly helpful.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> You'd also be surprised at the protection they can provide.



It is better than nothing.  But for most intermediates and experts they don't provide the level of protection that one assumes they do.


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## SKidds (Mar 28, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> It is better than nothing.  But for most intermediates and experts they don't provide the level of protection that one assumes they do.


Yeah, maybe the way more advanced skiers ski, helmets might be less likely to save a life given the kinds of impacts that might occur....but that doesn't mean they can't save you from a lot of pain and non-life-threatening injury.  I had one incident on Skyward at WF this season where the summit was socked in and I had a bout of vertigo.  Ended up hitting a small tree moving off the edge of the trail when I thought I was pulling up to a stop well away from the edge.  Broke a sapling at the base with my head.  Might have come away with some stitches from that without a helmet.  I've also had a few branches hit my helmet pretty hard in the glades...would have left a mark without a helmet.


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## tekweezle (Mar 29, 2014)

Just to relate my experience, I was in a gladed trail and whipped around some trees with low hanging branches. A branch poking out hit my helmet and goggle flush. It wasn't even a high speed impact but Looking back in retrospect, I could have lost an eye. Protection is for the unexpected situations you can't calculate. 

Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk 2


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## steamboat1 (Mar 29, 2014)

dlague said:


> I hope know one objects to me posting the video but I think helps to under stand the where!  Ursa Access to 91 and the 91 trail.


The Ursa Access trail shown at about 42 seconds into this video is exactly where I broke my ankle & blew out my ACL last year. I know the trail had been closed last season & beginning of this season. Surprised to see that it's open again. There's two way traffic right behind the lift line ropes you see in the video & skiers/boarders usually gain quite a bit of speed to get around the ropes & to the beginning of the lift line without having to walk. I had assumed there was an accident there & that was the reason the trail was closed skiing towards Ursa from the American Express lift & upper mountain trails on that side. Skiers/boarders trying to get back to the lower mountain from Ursa are going in one direction while others are straight lining it from the other direction trying to make the lift. I don't know if this had anything to do with the accident but I can see where it could have if that's where the accident happened. I see they now put up fencing in that area. In my case the trail was closed but I couldn't see anything wrong with the trail. I didn't feel like walking uphill to the other traverse & didn't want to ski to the bottom & ride the lift up again to start over. I straight lined it trying to make the chair but hit something half way down that stopped my ski's dead & sent me flying like superman.

It's always sad to read about these incidents & my condolences go out to family & friends.


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## xlr8r (Mar 29, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> The Ursa Access trail shown at about 42 seconds into this video is exactly where I broke my ankle & blew out my ACL last year. I know the trail had been closed last season & beginning of this season. Surprised to see that it's open again. There's two way traffic right behind the lift line ropes you see in the video & skiers/boarders usually gain quite a bit of speed to get around the ropes & to the beginning of the lift line without having to walk. I had assumed there was an accident there & that was the reason the trail was closed skiing towards Ursa from the American Express lift & upper mountain trails on that side. Skiers/boarders trying to get back to the lower mountain from Ursa are going in one direction while others are straight lining it from the other direction trying to make the lift. I don't know if this had anything to do with the accident but I can see where it could have if that's where the accident happened. I see they now put up fencing in that area. In my case the trail was closed but I couldn't see anything wrong with the trail. I didn't feel like walking uphill to the other traverse & didn't want to ski to the bottom & ride the lift up again to start over. I straight lined it trying to make the chair but hit something half way down that stopped my ski's dead & sent me flying like superman.
> 
> It's always sad to read about these incidents & my condolences go out to family & friends.



URSA Access is still closed.  The accident happened on 91


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## makado420 (Mar 29, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I'm not saying I totally agree with Highway Star but I get what he's saying.  Everytime something like this happens, people come up with all sorts of knee-jerk reactions thinking that some change will ensure it never happens again.  The fact is skiing and snowboarding are dangerous sports.  It ultimately comes down to the responsibility of the person to ensure their own safety.  If the sign post wasn't there, it could've been a tree, or a rock, or another person, etc.  There is no way to make the sport 100% safe. All we can do is educate ourselves, wear protective equipment, and do our best to minimize risks.  But the fact remains that even with all that, injuries and deaths will still happen.  If you can't handle that, stay home.
> 
> I'm really tired of the way our society tries to assign blame for every injury or death that occurs, and never want to say it was the victims fault, especially if the person is young.  I don't know nearly enough about this incident to comment on it in particular.  But very often, it is the victim's decisions and actions that lead to their demise.  My heart goes out to this kid's friends and family.  I'm sure they are devastated, but assigning undue blame will not bring their son back and it will not prevent the accident from happening.



Good comment 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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