# College Students and the Vote



## noski (Sep 23, 2008)

I was disturbed today to learn my 19 y/o college student has not yet registered to vote and didn't know which presidential candidate was Rep and which was Dem. She hadn't 'gotten around' to researching.  The reality is as a (senior) paramedic student who is also working to support herself she has not had or made the time to get informed. How many other college students out there are in the same boat?

I sent her the link to RockTheVote.com and she is now awaiting her absentee ballot.  18-29 year olds represent 1/5 of the voting public. I don't have an answer, I was just shocked at how little she knew about the current political arena....  Do the community colleges (she is at Southern Maine) do outreach like I understand larger colleges do? Is there a friendly website out there that can help educate young people on the issues and candidate platform differences? Can this thread possible remain unpolitical? (Lock if necessary.)


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## severine (Sep 23, 2008)

I don't recall the community college that I used to attend doing much to encourage students to vote.  But then again, that was a long time ago.  The university where I am currently a student will be reaching out to students over the 1st full week of October to encourage them to vote.  I know they encouraged students to sign up to help spread the word.  This is a small campus, too, so I was surprised they were putting this much effort into it.  400 students (much smaller than the community college I used to attend).

It is true, though, that while students make the biggest noise about injustice, they're also the ones who don't take advantage of their right to vote.


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## Geoff (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> I was disturbed today to learn my 19 y/o college student has not yet registered to vote and didn't know which presidential candidate was Rep and which was Dem.



This is why I believe Social Security and Medicare are never going away.  The older you get, the more likely you are to vote.  Once you reach blue hair status, pretty much everybody votes.  In 15 years, federal tax rates are going to be gigantic since people like GSS are going to be paying for my retirement where I ski every day.


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## chase (Sep 23, 2008)

I don't know about other colleges but at penn state you get asked if you are registered to vote at least three times a week. There is also a lot of election info passed out by the political clubs. The last time a presidential candidate came here i think about half of the student body went.


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## Brettski (Sep 23, 2008)

If you're olde enough to vote, old enough to go to war, olde enough to marry, old enough to be "legal", the you should be old enough to drink


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## severine (Sep 23, 2008)

Brettski said:


> If you're olde enough to vote, old enough to go to war, olde enough to marry, old enough to be "legal", the you should be old enough to drink


That is a completely different subject, but I totally agree.  I thought I heard on the news recently that someone in CT was pitching that to the state govt again...


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## ctenidae (Sep 23, 2008)

Article in Business Week last week said the campaigns are focused almost exclusively on "uninformed" voters now, on the theory that anyone who has been paying any attention at all has already decided.

That scares me, in a way.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> I was disturbed today to learn my 19 y/o college student has not yet registered to vote and didn't know which presidential candidate was Rep and which was Dem. She hadn't 'gotten around' to researching.  The reality is as a (senior) paramedic student who is also working to support herself she has not had or made the time to get informed. How many other college students out there are in the same boat?



If she knows that little about the issues, it's probably better she doesn't vote. :smash:


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Article in Business Week last week said the campaigns are focused almost exclusively on "uninformed" voters now, on the theory that anyone who has been paying any attention at all has already decided.
> 
> That scares me, in a way.



Still going to write in my name?

I'm buying write in votes with cabinet posts.  So far I'm expanding the cabinet to include about 4,500 close advisors.


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## Johnskiismore (Sep 23, 2008)

It really boggles my mind at how many younger adults don't vote.  At one of my jobs I work with a 31 year old who finally registered this year and is going to vote for the FIRST TIME this November!  I know plenty other who don't take the time to register, but yet, they seem to complain the most about what goes on in good 'ole DC.  

I have a pin on my camera bag that says: 'Didn't Vote?  Don't Bitch!'


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## MR. evil (Sep 23, 2008)

what worries me more are all the college students that will once again piss away their vote by voting for some independant canidate instead of the major party canidate who's views more closely match their own.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> If she knows that little about the issues, it's probably better she doesn't vote. :smash:



q4t


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> what worries me more are all the college students that will once again piss away their vote by voting for some independant canidate instead of the major party canidate who's views more closely match their own.



If the rate continues to rise and it ultimately leads to a political landscape with more/better choices of representation, I don't have much of a problem with it.

I don't blame Nader for the moron in the office right now.


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## MR. evil (Sep 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> I don't blame Nader for the moron in the office right now.



I don't blame Nader either. I blame all the people that wasted their vote on him.


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## Beetlenut (Sep 23, 2008)

Of course the big Gorilla in the room that no one talks about, and the reason the present moron is in there IMO, is election fraud. Four years later, and there are still problems with the voting machines and the validation process. I think that is one of the reasons young people are disillusioned and apathetic about the up coming election. I know it concerns me, and it appears not much is being done about it.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

Brettski said:


> If you're olde enough to vote, old enough to go to war, olde enough to marry, old enough to be "legal", the you should be old enough to drink



Back in my Army days. The base commander when I was in ARizona decided that was the case and let any soldiers over 18 drink in the bars on base. That also kept us off the streets too.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

I just registered to vote for the first time and I'm 29...I never cared for the candidates in 2000, 2004 or 2008...aside from Presidential candidates..I really don't care about people in Congress, mayors, city council and what not...I think that everybody should automatically be registered to vote..more people would vote if that was the case..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

Brettski said:


> If you're olde enough to vote, old enough to go to war, olde enough to marry, old enough to be "legal", the you should be old enough to drink



Definitely...I've always been for an 18 drinking age and it was 18 in many states prior to the mid 80s...It's crazy to think that 3/4 of the time I was in college, I couldn't drink legally..pot should also be legalized..it's crazy that people are arrested for a freaking plant..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

I think more people would vote if they got rid of the electoral college..then every vote would count equally..as it is now..your vote counts more if you're in a swing state with alot of electoral votes..in states like Vermont..which is always Democrat or North Dakota which is always Republican..your vote does not count much..


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## noski (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I..in states like Vermont..which is always Democrat ..your vote does not count much..



For what it's worth, Vermont, the first state admitted after the original 13 colonies, joined the Union in March 1791, and has participated in every election since 1792. While current-day Vermont is reliably Democratic in national elections, it is interesting to note that from the founding of the modern Republican Party in 1854 through the election of 1988, Vermont went Republican in every election except 1964, when it voted for Lyndon Johnson over Barry Goldwater. In 1992, Vermont broke this tradition, voting for Bill Clinton over George Bush, and has been “blue” ever since.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> For what it's worth, Vermont, the first state admitted after the original 13 colonies, joined the Union in March 1791, and has participated in every election since 1792. While current-day Vermont is reliably Democratic in national elections, it is interesting to note that from the founding of the modern Republican Party in 1854 through the election of 1988, Vermont went Republican in every election except 1964, when it voted for Lyndon Johnson over Barry Goldwater. In 1992, Vermont broke this tradition, voting for Bill Clinton over George Bush, and has been “blue” ever since.



Darn crunchy flatlanders with their birkenstocks and tiedyed shirts..I always forget that once you get out of Stowe, Burlington, Essex, Middlebury, Manchester and other desirable places in VT...it's mostly poor rednecks..


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

So much for the not being political thing.


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## awf170 (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> I was disturbed today to learn my 19 y/o college student has not yet registered to vote and didn't know which presidential candidate was Rep and which was Dem. She hadn't 'gotten around' to researching.  The reality is as a (senior) paramedic student who is also working to support herself she has not had or made the time to get informed. How many other college students out there are in the same boat?
> 
> I sent her the link to RockTheVote.com and she is now awaiting her absentee ballot.  18-29 year olds represent 1/5 of the voting public. I don't have an answer, I was just shocked at how little she knew about the current political arena....  Do the community colleges (she is at Southern Maine) do outreach like I understand larger colleges do? Is there a friendly website out there that can help educate young people on the issues and candidate platform differences? Can this thread possible remain unpolitical? (Lock if necessary.)



Wow, and I thought I was ignorant.  I mean I still am, but at least there is worse.



wa-loaf said:


> If she knows that little about the issues, it's probably better she doesn't vote. :smash:



Amen.  That's why I plan not to vote.  Plus the democrats are going to go have there usual MA slaughtering, so not like it even matters if I vote.  Yeah, I know that is probably one of the worse attitudes to have if life, but in the circumstance is it pretty true. 

IMO voting without a solid knowledge of all major candidates is a lot worse than not voting.


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## noski (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Darn crunchy flatlanders with their birkenstocks and tiedyed shirts..I always forget that once you get out of Stowe, Burlington, Essex, Middlebury, Manchester and other desirable places in VT...it's mostly poor rednecks..


 :-D LOL I may be one of those poor rednecks, but I get to see 3 of the east's best ski mountains every single day...


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2008)

Can't relate...I vote in pretty much every election and am 28.  I was one of 160 people who voted in my town (of about 4,000 voters) for the Primary two weeks ago...


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> :-D LOL I may be one of those poor rednecks, but I get to see 3 of the east's best ski mountains every single day...



....and not ski them


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## noski (Sep 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> ....and not ski them


 Someone has to work on the bluebird days you know....


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

Marc said:


> So much for the not being political thing.



We should have a politics forum..


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

I've voted in every presidential election that I've been old enough for.  In Vermont, I voted in most smaller elections as well.  Every other state I've lived in, I haven't paid much attention to local politics.


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> We should have a politics forum..



Or you could start your own message board and invite AZ members there for the purpose of politcal discussion.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

I for one am glad there isn't a politics forum, even though I've posted about a dozen times in this thread :lol:


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## hammer (Sep 23, 2008)

Marc said:


> Or you could start your own message board and invite AZ members there for the purpose of politcal discussion.


Wasn't that done already?  I remember checking the new site and there weren't too many posts there...


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## BeanoNYC (Sep 23, 2008)

We spend at leat 15 minutes a class speaking about the current election.  One of my students turned 18 today.  We registered him to vote via rockthevote.com.  Good vibes.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> We spend at leat 15 minutes a class speaking about the current election.  One of my students turned 18 today.  We registered him to vote via rockthevote.com.  Good vibes.



As a teacher..are you allowed to say who you want to win??


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> We should have a politics forum..



Go ahead and start one if you want...then you can moderate it and put out the fires....


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## noski (Sep 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> We spend at leat 15 minutes a class speaking about the current election.  One of my students turned 18 today.  We registered him to vote via rockthevote.com.  Good vibes.


I think that is a great thing. My daughter graduated HS in her junior year. Maybe they would have done something like this in senior year. I didn't think about that. Do high schools even teach a proper civics class anymore? In the 70s we had U.S. & World History.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> Go ahead and start one if you want...then you can moderate it and put out the fires....



What fires..it would be nice to have one with no moderation..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> I think that is a great thing. My daughter graduated HS in her junior year. Maybe they would have done something like this in senior year. I didn't think about that. Do high schools even teach a proper civics class anymore? In the 70s we had U.S. & World History.



I had AP American government when I was a senior and I got 3 college credits for doing well on the AP test..


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> What fires..it would be nice to have one with no moderation..



I've never seen an unmoderated poitical forum without name calling and flame wars.


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## ed-drum (Sep 23, 2008)

Young people vote? They don't care about anything but "pop" culture. It's not their fault, tv brainwashing is subtle. Now, when the draft is re-instated, that's going to get their attention. And the draft WILL come back. How many of you have their selective service card? I still carry my Geneva Convention card in my wallet, decades later.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

Marc said:


> I've never seen an unmoderated poitical forum without name calling and flame wars.



I love a good flame war..


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

ed-drum said:


> Young people vote? They don't care about anything but "pop" culture. It's not their fault, tv brainwashing is subtle. Now, when the draft is re-instated, that's going to get their attention. And the draft WILL come back. How many of you have their selective service card? I still carry my Geneva Convention card in my wallet, decades later.



1) It isn't likely because it is so unpopular an idea, it guarantees political suicide for anyone who proposes it.
2) You're on the right track... a lot of young people don't vote because they don't care... because nothing directly affects them (except, like you said, a draft would)

They either don't care because their life will remain largely unchanged, or they're too immature to recognize changes in their lives will be directly influenced by the political landscape.

Or they do care, but they care way too much, become neck deep in involvement with the fool hardy notion they can change the world and a utopia is possible.


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## Dr Skimeister (Sep 23, 2008)

I recall that it had been suggested that the mandatory registration for Selective Service would also be used to register one to vote. I guess that never went through.


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I love a good flame war..



I was answering your question (sans the question mark) to TB.  You asked him "what fires" so I was telling you he was referring to the name calling and flame wars that inevitably arise in an unmoderated political forum.

Don't be so obtuse.


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## Dr Skimeister (Sep 23, 2008)

Can't help but chuckle here....

I never thought of a person that's considered to be obtuse as having a choice in the matter.


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## Beetlenut (Sep 23, 2008)

awf170 said:


> IMO voting without a solid knowledge of all major candidates is a lot worse than not voting.


 
Doesn't seem to stop the entire Bible-belt! They vote for who their minister tells them to vote for.  Hence more Bush!


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> I've voted in every presidential election that I've been old enough for.  In Vermont, I voted in most smaller elections as well.  Every other state I've lived in, I haven't paid much attention to local politics.



I missed the election in 88 because I had just moved to Germany in the Army and dropped the ball on getting an absentee ballot.



noski said:


> I think that is a great thing. My daughter graduated HS in her junior year. Maybe they would have done something like this in senior year. I didn't think about that. Do high schools even teach a proper civics class anymore? In the 70s we had U.S. & World History.



We called it Political Science.



ed-drum said:


> Young people vote? They don't care about anything but "pop" culture. It's not their fault, tv brainwashing is subtle. Now, when the draft is re-instated, that's going to get their attention. And the draft WILL come back. How many of you have their selective service card? I still carry my Geneva Convention card in my wallet, decades later.



Kind of painting them all with the same brush here. But I'd be all for some kind of national service.


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## Marc (Sep 23, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Can't help but chuckle here....
> 
> I never thought of a person that's considered to be obtuse as having a choice in the matter.



Some people do so on purpose to annoy others.  I do it all the time.


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## Beetlenut (Sep 23, 2008)

Marc said:


> Some people do so on purpose to annoy others. I do it all the time.


 
Yes, but with you it's a gift!


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 23, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> Doesn't seem to stop the entire Bible-belt! They vote for who their minister tells them to vote for.  Hence more Bush!



Or any HS, or college professor.

In High school i took American Gov. or something like that for a name.  It should have been called Vote for Kerry in the upcoming election.  I learned nothing from the teacher other than how awsome Kerry was.

In college There was some Gov. class that I took.  It was a entire semester of how evil Bush was.  Say anything the teacher didnt agree with and she would lash out at you..........


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Darn crunchy flatlanders with their birkenstocks and tiedyed shirts..I always forget that once you get out of Stowe, Burlington, Essex, Middlebury, Manchester and other desirable places in VT...it's mostly poor rednecks..



All the people who don't vote Obama are redneck racists, only clinging to their guns and religion.







Goodbye.  Going to hang with all my rednecks.


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## drjeff (Sep 23, 2008)

Something tells me that this thread won't make page 7 before it locked and gone


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> All the people who don't vote Obama are redneck racists, only clinging to their guns and religion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Either Redneck racists or people that like the way this country is headed..lol..change is what Obama is gonna bring...shoutout to howard Dean...wooohoooyeahhahahaha


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## ctenidae (Sep 23, 2008)

Marc said:


> 1)
> 
> 2) You're on the right track... a lot of young people don't vote because they don't care... because nothing directly affects them (except, like you said, a draft would)
> 
> ...



Or, they don't care because they aren't the "target audience."

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but about 2 years ago I asked Kiki McLain and Bay Buchanan what their parties had to say that concerned me, a married, white, educated male with no kids and (at the time) no mortgage, since all they could talk about were gay marriage, mortgage tax credits, and how stupid the other party is. You know, the environment, social security, insurance costs, that sort of thing. Kiki said, "You're not really the demographic we're after," and Bay said, "Buy a house and have a couple of kids, then come talk to us."

I've been jaded against either party ever since.


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## drjeff (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Either Redneck racists or people that like the way this country is headed..lol..change is what Obama is gonna bring...shoutout to howard Dean...wooohoooyeahhahahaha



Carefull what you wish for there Steeze, your buddies proposed estate tax increase could have a BIG effect on some large $$ granite sales for your familes business 

BTW, everyone do their homework, watch the debates starting this week,  check out both Fox News AND one of the big 3 networks (need some contrasting views for good measure) and make and cast an educated vote on November 4th for who ever you feel the most comfortable with, and be thankfull that we live in the country where we can have open debate and cast our own votes :flag:


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## Beetlenut (Sep 23, 2008)

drjeff said:


> ...and be thankfull that we live in the country where we can have open debate and cast our own votes :flag:


Now if only we could be assured that those votes will in fact count! This whole electronic voting machine fiasco with no paper trail has me concerned!


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## noski (Sep 23, 2008)

drjeff said:


> BTW, everyone do their homework, watch the debates starting this week,  check out both Fox News AND one of the big 3 networks (need some contrasting views for good measure) and make and cast an educated vote on November 4th for who ever you feel the most comfortable with, and be thankfull that we live in the country where we can have open debate and cast our own votes :flag:


Amen. I will be tuned in to PBS on Friday evening at 9pm. There is alot riding on November 4.


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## Dr Skimeister (Sep 23, 2008)

noski said:


> Amen. I will be tuned in to PBS on Friday evening at 9pm. There is alot riding on November 4.



I'll second PBS as unbiased a source for information as television might afford. In stark contrast to FOX.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

What I would've loved to have seen is a Tim Russert (rip) moderated debate......


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

when is the first debate?


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## Beetlenut (Sep 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> What I would've loved to have seen is a Tim Russert (rip) moderated debate......


 
What I would've loved to have seen is Tim Russert interview Sara Palin!


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

Man, this has got to be a record for not getting locked


Maybe we should kick it up a notch!!!!  :lol:


Who's everybody voting for?  Let me know so I can start flamin' and name callin' 


Where's Greg and Bvibert to knock us unrulys down a notch :lol:


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## ed-drum (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm voting for Mickey Mouse. I mean, what's the difference? Unless "they" pull an October surprise. Then the elections will be suspended.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

Dude, Mickey hates on gays and wants to bomb switzerland......how could you vote for that guy


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## mondeo (Sep 23, 2008)

Johnskiismore said:


> I have a pin on my camera bag that says: 'Didn't Vote? Don't Bitch!'


I hate it when people say that if you don't vote, you don't have a right to complain. Not voting is not necessarily apathy towards voting. In my case it's driven by the fact that I'm effectively disenfranchised.

The more appropriate statement is: if you don't vote, you don't have a right to expect anyone to listen to your complaints. Which I don't. I'm just a speck of dust as far as elections are concerned; Obama will carry Connecticut with a margin of victory of at least 10%. Why would I waste my time with (at best) a symbolic gesture? The fact is that on the micro level, voting does not matter; it's on the macro level that it does. I don't care what you say, the objective truth is that my vote does not matter, and I have better uses of my time than travel out of my way, stand in line for a bit, punch in a few choices that have no impact on anything, and then travel back to whatever I'd be doing otherwise.

And they can't even measure one vote. Case in point: look at Florida in 2000. No matter your view on the outcome, it shows that they can't even count votes down to the hundreds with accuracy. Even if there truly was a margin of victory of one vote, what do you think would happen? They'd argue, there'd be court cases, and at some arbitrary point in time the Supreme Court would step in and say 'That's it, it's over, now.' Even with electronic voting systems, what happens with that packet of data that gets corrupted? The person who was a little careless with the touch screen? The absentee ballot that gets lost in the mail?

What scares me more is get out the vote efforts. Honestly, they should tag the regristration of anybody who came through MTV/Rock the Vote and automatically have their votes reversed. Try to vote for Obama, you end up voting for McCain, and vice-versa. If you're a big enough of an idiot get your political motivation from Moron Television, you should be banned from voting for life. Have you seen what's on MTV? I swear, the average IQ of their viewership has to be in the mid-60s.

In the end, though, it doesn't matter. It's not like the two parties are actually any different.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> All the people who don't vote Obama are redneck racists, only clinging to their guns and religion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hawkshot, I know you're a good guy. But we definitely have different opinions regarding politics:


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## Paul (Sep 23, 2008)

In before the lock!!!!!


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## Dr Skimeister (Sep 23, 2008)

mondeo said:


> I hate it when people say that if you don't vote, you don't have a right to complain. Not voting is not necessarily apathy towards voting. In my case it's driven by the fact that I'm effectively disenfranchised.
> 
> The more appropriate statement is: if you don't vote, you don't have a right to expect anyone to listen to your complaints. Which I don't. I'm just a speck of dust as far as elections are concerned; Obama will carry Connecticut with a margin of victory of at least 10%. Why would I waste my time with (at best) a symbolic gesture? The fact is that on the micro level, voting does not matter; it's on the macro level that it does. I don't care what you say, the objective truth is that my vote does not matter, and I have better uses of my time than travel out of my way, stand in line for a bit, punch in a few choices that have no impact on anything, and then travel back to whatever I'd be doing otherwise.
> 
> ...



I can see where your apathy might come from. No, our electoral system isn't anywhere near perfect. It is so easy to just give in to the feeling that any of our individual choices makes no difference. 

I became eligible to vote in 1975. I know for a fact that I've never missed participating in a general election, and in those years I doubt I've missed a handful and a half of primary or school board elections. What drives me to cast my ballot is the fear of "them" making decisions on my behalf. 

Of course, "them" have won some of these elections. I am able to take personal satisfaction in knowing that I did not enable "them". Certainly there have been times where "them" weren't as bad as I feared they might be. And likewise there have been times where the people or the referendums that I did support with my vote didn't turn out to be entirely to my liking. 

I vote because I am not comfortable with allowing others make all the decisions for me. Voting for people or referendums that mimic my beliefs makes me feel like my voice does make a difference.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

I'd say the local elections are even more important than the national. These are the people who can most directly effect your life and some of them are on their way up. Pick the ones you like early.


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## mondeo (Sep 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I'd say the local elections are even more important than the national. These are the people who can most directly effect your life and some of them are on their way up. Pick the ones you like early.


 
Local elections are a different story; if there's only a few hundred or a thousand voters, a single vote picks up a much larger importance.

But, as of yet, I'm not really settled down in a permanant residence. Heck, I just moved a month ago, and have no clue what's going on in my new town. And I'm not going to have the interest to learn about a town I'll only live in for another year or two.

Check back with me after I buy a house. I might vote then, but would probably still boycott the national level elections.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

I don't really feel like my vote counts..I have a better chance of winning the lottery and being struck by lightning on the same day than my vote counting..lol

Obama is the first guy since Clinton who was worth voting for..I was always for Steve Forbes..I always felt a flat tax was the most fair..


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I don't really feel like my vote counts..I have a better chance of winning the lottery and being struck by lightning on the same day than my vote counting..lol



....don't forget to pass me your ticket before you get hit by lightening :grin:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> ....don't forget to pass me your ticket before you get hit by lightening :grin:




I'm giving it to Marty McFly..


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I don't really feel like my vote counts..I have a better chance of winning the lottery and being struck by lightning on the same day than my vote counting..lol



You live in a pretty big battleground state. I'd say it counts a lot more than those of us in all blue or red states.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> You live in a pretty big battleground state. I'd say it counts a lot more than those of us in all blue or red states.



Isn't it unfair that my vote means more than yours??  If we elected our Presidents based on a popular vote like every other office..We'd probably be finishing out our 2nd term with President Gore..


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Isn't it unfair that my vote means more than yours??  If we elected our Presidents based on a popular vote like every other office..We'd probably be finishing out our 2nd term with President Gore..



I'm all for doing away with the electoral college.


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## drjeff (Sep 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> when is the first debate?



This coming Friday evening, so add it to your soon to be created "what are you doing this weekend thread"


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## mattchuck2 (Sep 23, 2008)

Yeah, I can't really relate to this thread as I vote in every primary and every election (even school budget votes).  I'm 28.

Although I am pleased to see a couple of nice opinions down in this thread before it gets locked.  Voter Fraud?  Reinstitution of the Draft as a possibility if a certain candidate is elected?  That's the kind of talk I can relate to.

And as far as Marx goes, people always point to Scandavian countries as "proof" that social democracies don't work (>50% tax rates for most people).  But free healthcare, childcare, and college through PhD (if you want it) sound like pretty good things to me.

I only bring this up because I was going to mention how I would like to ski in Sweden someday . . . I wasn't talking about the politics at all.


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## mondeo (Sep 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I'm all for doing away with the electoral college.



I'm not. Do away with it, and Presidential candidates will never worry about North Dakota, Montana, Delaware, or New Hampshire again.

The big states have enough sway in Congress that they'll be taken care of no matter what. The only thing the small states have going for them is equal standing in the Senate and a disproportionately large representation in the presidential election. No electoral college, and focus is drawn purely to population centers, and results in a greater tyranny of the majority. Our founding fathers weren't dumb.

I do, however, like Maine's and Nebraska's take on it, where each congressional district gets its own vote, and the state has 2 at-large votes.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2008)

mondeo said:


> I'm not. Do away with it, and Presidential candidates will never worry about North Dakota, Montana, Delaware, or New Hampshire again.
> 
> The big states have enough sway in Congress that they'll be taken care of no matter what. The only thing the small states have going for them is equal standing in the Senate and a disproportionately large representation in the presidential election. No electoral college, and focus is drawn purely to population centers, and results in a greater tyranny of the majority. Our founding fathers weren't dumb.
> 
> I do, however, like Maine's and Nebraska's take on it, where each congressional district gets its own vote, and the state has 2 at-large votes.



valid points

one's I very much share as a NH resident where things are close.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 23, 2008)

The congressional district plan is ok, but it has to be implemented nationally for it work correctly.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2008)

drjeff said:


> This coming Friday evening, so add it to your soon to be created "what are you doing this weekend thread"



Thanks for the reminder..it's almost the weekend on the other side of the International date line..JEA!!!!


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## mondeo (Sep 23, 2008)

mattchuck2 said:


> And as far as Marx goes, people always point to Scandavian countries as "proof" that social democracies don't work (>50% tax rates for most people).  But free healthcare, childcare, and college through PhD (if you want it) sound like pretty good things to me.



I'll provide those things for much less than 50% tax rates. They'll consist of band-aids, me yelling at kids locked in a pen, and doctoral studies in the literature of Dr. Seuss, but, hey.

Hyperbole, of course, but I point to the UK, and Canada. Canada and the UK both have nationalized health care - and those that can afford it come to the US because of the massive difference in quality. Canada just can't hire enough doctors, because the government isn't willing to pay them enough. Google Ontario Wait Times strategy. 10% of people need to wait over 90 days to get a MRI. Knee replacements in 200 days!

And we do have nationalized health care, the expensive kind. It is illegal for hospitals to turn away patients in critical condition for lack of funds. Everybody else gets to foot the bill through increased medical costs directly from the hospitals; no government intervention needed. In fact, the U.S. spends more money per capita on health care than any other country in the world. (Partly we just need to get off our asses and stop being hypochondriacs.)

K-12 education is largely socialized, higher is competitive. K-12 in this country is one of the worst systems in the developed world, the higher education system is one of, if not, the best. And that private competition makes the more affordable state universities all the better, because they actually have to work at providing a comparable education.

Is this thread still not locked? :blink:


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## ALLSKIING (Sep 23, 2008)

Locked


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