# Okemo Expansion?  (Yes, there's more condos) Expansion Approved



## ss20 (Apr 17, 2013)

Timber Creek - Proposed


In the permitting process as of 2012, Timber Creek could be Okemo's next big real estate development. Located below the South Face area, Timber Creek would potentially feature 208 units, mixed between homes, duplexes, and condominium complexes, as well as an "owner's base lodge."


About 550 vertical feet of lift serviced ski trails would be created in the complex below the South Face Quad chairlift. The seven trail network would be serviced by two lifts. 

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/skiareaexpansions/Vermont/okemo.php#timbercreek

Taken from NESH
Interesting.  Hope this doesn't overcrowd the South Face.  That lift already has some of the longest lines at Okemo.  I don't see how it could support the increase of skiers.  This would destroy the glades over on that side of the mountain (which is already Okemo's worst kept secret).  If this does get built, it won't be pretty.  20 minute lift lines on South Face and Glades.  Rimrock would become a superhighway.  (begin rant) Really, Rimrock is pretty much the only way out of South Face.  It is a high-intermediate (by Okemo's standards) and is already over-crowded with all types of people.  People trying to pick-up speed for the Catnap traverse.  Beginners, experts, and intermediates trying to leave South Face.  It's already a mess.  Now add condo-goers to the mix.  Not pretty.  And I won't even get started on the Glades peak quad base/Ledges quad unload intersection.  Add more slow signs to that area!  It's a steep approach to Glades and people are flying in both directions!  (end rant)  And Okemo really needs more condos?  Are they trying to become North Ludlow?  The place already has the most condos in the Northeast (besides Sugarloaf)!  Can you tell me no wants this?!


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## twinplanx (Apr 17, 2013)

Perhaps Mr. Okemo can chime in here, if the responses in the other thread haven't scared him off...


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## ss20 (Apr 17, 2013)

Nick, is there a way for me to remove the angry face from the thread title.  That was supposed to go at the bottom of my post.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 18, 2013)

I wouldn't think this would increase traffic on that side of the mtn that much. I wouldn't think anyone besides those staying in the condos would bother going out of their way to ski that flat (even by Okemo standards) terrain.


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## skiking4 (Apr 18, 2013)

God. Just looks like a waste of space to me! Might as well save those trees and cut down the trees where the ski terrain is actually good!


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## EPB (Apr 18, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> I wouldn't think this would increase traffic on that side of the mtn that much. I wouldn't think anyone besides those staying in the condos would bother going out of their way to ski that flat (even by Okemo standards) terrain.



Agreed. Further, the layout doesn't seem particularly conducive to good cruising either.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 19, 2013)

Agreed.  Not meaningful ski terrain.  It's essentially just another South Ridge area.  Remember, while run by the Muellers, Okemo has been owned by CNL for a few years now, so it's not surprising that additional Real Estate development is what's being pursued.  The only compelling ski terrain they could (if permitted) build would be off the backside at this point.  There actually appears to be some terrain with more pitch back there than the front side of the mountain, but it would have an exposure that would hold snow well.


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## spiderpig (Apr 29, 2013)

Yep, this is what I was talking about in this thread: http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/116684-Overheard-Changes-at-Okemo

No big deal in terms of added trails, it would seem.


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## Newpylong (May 1, 2013)

Seems like an awful lot of infrastructure to support condo development - 2 lifts and 7 trails? 

Give them one lift out of there and one trail in...

Hopefully it doesn't put more strain on South Face that it can't handle. that's one of the only areas I ski at when I go there...


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## legalskier (Sep 16, 2013)

*Okemo expansion approved*

"The permit will allow the developers to build 22 single-family homes, 32 duplex buildings, nine townhouse condominiums, a base lodge for homeowners, *two ski lifts, seven ski trails,* access roads, parking lots and a community water system. The proposed development will be situated on 268 acres...."

Full story: http://rutlandherald.com/article/20130916/THISJUSTIN/709169969


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 16, 2013)

Wonder where this new terrain will be. I sort of suspect most of these new trails will be devoted to direct access to the condos.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 16, 2013)

There was a thread elsewhere on the project.  The terrain is below the Southface area.  And yes, pretty much a trail pod catering to those new homes; nothing significant in terms of additional decent skiing except for added beginner terrain.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 16, 2013)

LUDLOW — The District 2 Environmental Commission  issued an Act 250 permit Friday to Timber Creek and five other partners  to build a 208-unit village at Okemo Mountain Resort in Ludlow.

The  permit will allow the developers to build 22 single-family homes, 32  duplex buildings, nine townhouse condominiums, a base lodge for  homeowners, two ski lifts, seven ski trails, access roads, parking lots  and a community water system. The proposed development will be situated  on 268 acres, which includes the Carnes Parcel and the Miller Tract in  Ludlow, and* the proposed residential recreational community will be a  private access development. The owners and guests will have access to  Okemo ski trials and amenities and there will be no public access,  according to the applicants.*

The partners submitted the Act 250 permit application in October 2012.


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## Edd (Sep 17, 2013)

Never heard of a base lodge for home owners. Sounds nice if you can swing it.


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## twinplanx (Sep 17, 2013)

Edd said:


> Never heard of a base lodge for home owners. Sounds nice if you can swing it.



The main base area is rather confined on weekends. I'm assuming this new development may ease some of that pressure eventually...


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## twinplanx (Sep 17, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> The main base area is rather confined on weekends. I'm assuming this new development may ease some of that pressure eventually...



Guess I should of read the full article first, lol
Sounds like some kind of haughty taughty gated community with "no public access" 
ya gota keep 'em separated smh


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## gmcunni (Sep 17, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> There was a thread elsewhere on the project.


http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/121012-Okemo-Expansion-(Yes-there-s-more-condos)


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## WWF-VT (Sep 17, 2013)

This post should be titled "New real estate development approved in Ludlow"


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 17, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/121012-Okemo-Expansion-(Yes-there-s-more-condos)


Appropriate for thread merge?


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## HowieT2 (Sep 17, 2013)

permit issued but is it being built and when?


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## legalskier (Sep 17, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> Sounds like some kind of haughty taughty gated community with "no public access"
> ya gota keep 'em separated smh




Last time I was there I noticed how upscale the place had gone since my prior visit.  Be that as it may, I'm more interested in the  7 new trails and 2 new lifts. Curious to see how they fit in.


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## C-Rex (Sep 17, 2013)

Apparently, this expansion will do nothing to cure the intense boredom experienced by anyone with more than beginner skills. Yay.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 17, 2013)

I have fun skiing Okemo.  Guess that means I only have beginner skills


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## WoodCore (Sep 17, 2013)

I like it, will finally have ski-in/ski-out access from my folks house!


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## tnt (Sep 17, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I have fun skiing Okemo.  Guess that means I only have beginner skills



Yeah, the only time I ever skied Okemo it absolutely dumped for a couple of days.  So, in my book, the place is a blast!


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## gmcunni (Sep 17, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I have fun skiing Okemo.  Guess that means I only have beginner skills


+1


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## Edd (Sep 17, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I have fun skiing Okemo.  Guess that means I only have beginner skills



Yeah, you totally do. Take a lesson, please.


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## dlague (Sep 17, 2013)

I don't mind skiing Okemo but ski very specific trails when we are there! Far skiers right and some stuff down the middle.  I see it as a cruising resort kinda like Bretton Woods.  Both of those are our Sunday afternoon fillers if nothing better is possible.  The new trails probably will not be anything worth while.


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## reefer (Sep 18, 2013)

Definitely stay away, especially in the spring...................


http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/93419-Okemo-quot-The-Holy-Shit-Show-quot-4-3-11?highlight=


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## podunk77 (Sep 18, 2013)

I have nothing against wealthy people, especially if their million dollar slope-side homes help keep my season pass affordable.  Skiing's about having fun, and if they've come by their money honestly, they have as much right to enjoy themselves on the slopes as I do.


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## C-Rex (Sep 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I have fun skiing Okemo. Guess that means I only have beginner skills



Ugh, I was just saying that they could use some more challenging terrain.  If you have fun there, great.  Fuck me for having an opinion.


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## spiderpig (Nov 15, 2013)

There is a logo: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151689661162167&l=f0f688254b


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## tarponhead (Nov 16, 2013)

spiderpig said:


> There is a logo: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151689661162167&l=f0f688254b



I have absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread except to shout out What s up Blue Devil! (will PM)


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## spiderpig (Nov 18, 2013)

It's years away and supposedly a private development, but surprisingly on this year's trail map as a future expansion.


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## xlr8r (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm surprised Okemo has not finished building out Jackson Gore.  I understand this is a different type of and higher end real estate than JG.  But there is still more room to build a few more timeshare buildings at JG that were once shown in drawings and renderings.  I am glad it seems like the gondola is dead, because I think that would have been a rather pointless alignment for a gondola.  But I think it would be nice if maybe they built a second way out of Jackson Gore by adding a lift up to connect at least the morningstar chair but maybe up to the solitude chair.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 18, 2013)

xlr8r said:


> But I think it would be nice if maybe they built a second way out of Jackson Gore by adding a lift up to connect at least the morningstar chair but maybe up to the solitude chair.



A lift connecting from Jackson Gore to Solitude base would be a nice improvement.  It is a PITA to get back to the main mountain from Jackson Gore and I also agree that running a gondola from that base to the summit doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


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## BeefyBoy50 (Nov 18, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Ugh, I was just saying that they could use some more challenging terrain.  If you have fun there, great.  Fuck me for having an opinion.





lol couldn't resist


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## giantfan (Nov 18, 2013)

spiderpig said:


> It's years away and supposedly a private development, but surprisingly on this year's trail map as a future expansion.



The project is going to start this spring, not years from now.  The trail work is supposed to start this spring and the lifts could be spinning next year.


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## ss20 (Nov 19, 2013)

giantfan said:


> The project is going to start this spring, not years from now.  The trail work is supposed to start this spring and the lifts could be spinning next year.



Source?  Sounds a bit fishy to me that no one had even heard of this a year ago and now it's going to open next year.


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## WoodCore (Nov 19, 2013)

I can verify that the construction is going to get started in the next few months. No idea when the lifts and trails will be ready but do know that they will be managed by Okemo and open to the public. 

Believe it or not this pod of trails has been a long time coming and was originally proposed before Jackson Gore was a wink in Tim Mueller's eye. I have a map of the original proposed design somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 19, 2013)

I remember that.  They talked of an access road off 100 near the town dump.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Why does it take other VT. areas years to get Act 250 approval for expansion projects yet Okemo seems to have been approved overnight?


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## Big Game (Nov 20, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does it take other VT. areas years to get Act 250 approval for expansion projects yet Okemo seems to have been approved overnight?



Land Use, like every other area of law, is all about appealing to the emotions of decision makers. Logic, reason, they are all simply the backfill to a predetermined conclusion that is completely based upon emotions.

I know because I have seen my logic fail, where my bullsht won (but it was quality bullsht).

So how to appeal to the emotions of decision makers? Imagine them as 6-year-olds. And you'll be 90% there.

My guess is that Okemo had some representation that understood this fundamental truth of human nature.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 20, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does it take other VT. areas years to get Act 250 approval for expansion projects yet Okemo seems to have been approved overnight?



I wouldn't say they get approval overnight, but I agree with you that their expansion plans always seem to come to fruition much faster than other areas.

There's probably numerous contributing factors.  I can think of a few off the top of my head.

1. Consistency in Ownership/Management.  The Mueller's have owned it for 31 years now.  They've been dealing with Act 250 for a long time and know how to navigate the difficult approval process.  It might be the longest continually owned/managed ski resort in VT at this point.  Most ski areas in the state have been sold multiple times over during that time.

2. It's not part of the Green Mountain National Forest, but is in the Okemo State Forest.  There's no federal red tape to navigate.

3.  Much of the development they've done has occurred below 2500 feet elevation.  I haven't lived in the state for a while and looked at the Act recently, but I seem to recall that development above 2500 feet (especially commercial buildings) is extremely difficult to get approved.  IIRC I remember the Summit Lodge / Cafeteria being one of their most difficult battles to gain approval.

4. The owners grease up and make concessions to the locals quite generously, so they don't get much local backlash to their plans during the public commenting portion of the Act 250 approval process.  An example was when they wanted to build their big snowmaking pond on the east side of route 100.  The town grumbled about rising real estate costs, the mountain built an affordable housing neighborhood right next to it.  

Overall, I guess just location and smart business acumen is why they've been able to advance their development faster then some other ski resorts in the state.


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## spiderpig (Nov 28, 2013)

A slight correction, as the Muellers don't own okemo anymore, just manage it (which I'm guessing you know).

It seems like Jackson Gore took a long time to be approved, about four years. While they stopped building there after Bixby, this is a private development, as far as I know, so it's not that Okemo chose to build this instead of the next building at Jackson Gore. It does seem like the gondola is dead, but I would have preferred that over a lift just to reach the base of Solitude.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 28, 2013)

I graduated from UVM with the Mueller's son and Okemo was my home mountain from 84 to 94, so yup, I'm aware of the business structure.

I view the Gondola as a bad investment.  It would be underutilized as it would essentially be a transfer lift as you couldn't realistically lap it. If you're going to spend that kind of cash on a lift, it better be one of the busiest on the hill.  There's also the issue that the summit of the mountain really doesn't have any space to accommodate a Gondola terminal.  It's already jam packed with the Northstar and Green Ridge lift terminals along with the lodge and the skier traffic coming into the area from Buckhorn.


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## twinplanx (Nov 28, 2013)

What if they ran the gondola to the TRUE summit, up by the top of the Glades Triple? Idk if that's doable but that would be a TRUE transfer lift! Who wants to get on a packed to capacity lift anyway? Not me. Wth it ain't my money... ;-) 

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk


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## ss20 (Mar 22, 2014)

Coming next season!!!





Taken at the base of South Face.


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## jaytrem (Mar 23, 2014)

Construction pics here....

https://www.facebook.com/pages/South-Face-Village-at-Okemo/510806602343988


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## steamboat1 (Mar 23, 2014)




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## mbedle (Mar 24, 2014)

What is interesting and maybe this is common with residential developments adjacent to ski areas, is the development is not being done by Okemo Mountain Resort. The resort will only be required to provide snowmaking and run the two lifts.


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## spiderpig (Mar 24, 2014)

mbedle said:


> What is interesting and maybe this is common with residential developments adjacent to ski areas, is the development is not being done by Okemo Mountain Resort. The resort will only be required to provide snowmaking and run the two lifts.



Yes, we've been over that, thanks.


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