# Rest in Power Champ



## deadheadskier (Jun 4, 2016)

RIP Mohammed Ali


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## deadheadskier (Jun 4, 2016)

The Greatest


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## jimk (Jun 4, 2016)

I have pretty clear memories of his entire pro boxing career. No doubt one of the most riveting athletes in American sports history.  I don't recall his '60 Olympic victory, but I was fully aware of his first title bout when he beat Liston, it was in early '64 just a few months after JFK was shot.  I was 10 yrs old.  I followed all of his great fights over the years. I'm having a hard time thinking of another top athlete in my life time that was as "quotable" as Ali.  He was surely a fight promoter's dream. His later battle with Parkinson's was one of life's great ironies.  He was the ultimate trash talker, jokester/poet, and BS'r and yet started to have problems with speech almost immediately after retiring from boxing.  He virtually lost his ability to speak for decades before his death.  He was one of the most graceful, speedy, and highly coordinated heavyweight fighters of all time and he could barely walk for the last half of his adult life.  

My feelings about his social legacy are a bit more mixed.  I admired him for the graceful and humble way he accepted a terrible illness that struck him way too young.  I was raised in a military family and his stance on the Vietnam war was not popular in my family.  My dad was still in the Navy at the time this was going on.  I felt like Ali used his money and fame to dodge the draft when others had to serve, but I recognize many viewed him as a legitimate anti-war protester.   He was certainly an important civil rights figure and even a genuine religious figure.  He seemed to do a lot of nice charity work in his later years with an eye on heaven.  By the end of his life he had become a worthy icon of Black Pride.

Some beautiful quotes coming from George Foreman about Muhammad Ali.


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## MMP (Jun 4, 2016)

I did a book report on him when I was in 5th grade. RIP Champ. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Not Sure (Jun 4, 2016)

He had a training camp in Deer Lake Pa. , My friends Uncle would do work for him on occasion . Well one night they went to the local watering hole . "Country Squire" . The champ had one too many and passed out and fell off his barstool so Ira staggers over looks down and yells 8,9,10 ! and waves his hands. He always treated them well RIP.


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## Edd (Jun 4, 2016)

As a kid, I was in awe of him. I even watched the Saturday morning cartoon he was in. Totally made sense to me that they'd make a cartoon of his adventures.


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## joshua segal (Jun 4, 2016)

It is nice to see when those who were tried in the court of public opinion and through attempts by unethical government officials are vindicated: RIP Mohammed Ali, Pete Seeger, MLK Jr., Dalton Trumbo and probably many others.


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## Warp Daddy (Jun 4, 2016)

As a college kid back when CC Morphed to MA it was taken with mixed reviews , many at the time thought he was a draft dodger who was using religion as a medium . Over time he became a man of substance and earned his rep as a pacificist . His athleticism was unsurpassed, his early self promotion and trashtalking  was yet another controversial social barrier .  Yet intuitively most ofus knew it was an act and a damn good one ....a trend setting tome forthe future. 

Remember him whuppazzing that UGLY BEAR ( as hecalled Liston ). Who could ever forget his taunts I'm Pretty , ur an Ugly Bear  etc etcand then he wore the big old man out in the ring. ALI. Was a force for good and displayed great courage in his decades long struggle and earned respect as he carried himself with grace and style . Even tho he was racked witha disease that took his fascile speech , he used his innate sense of humor well with MUGGING for the camera and feigning a punch  at celebrities whenever they would engage him .

RIP. Champ !


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## joshua segal (Jun 4, 2016)

Warp Daddy said:


> As a college kid back when CC Morphed to MA it was taken with mixed reviews , many at the time thought he was a draft dodger who was using religion as a medium . Over time he became a man of substance and earned his rep as a pacificist . His athleticism was unsurpassed, his early self promotion and trashtalking  was yet another controversial social barrier .  Yet intuitively most ofus knew it was an act and a damn good one ....a trend setting tome forthe future.
> 
> Remember him whuppazzing that UGLY BEAR ( as hecalled Liston ). Who could ever forget his taunts I'm Pretty , ur an Ugly Bear  etc etcand then he wore the big old man out in the ring. ALI. Was a force for good and displayed great courage in his decades long struggle and earned respect as he carried himself with grace and style . Even tho he was racked witha disease that took his fascile speech , he used his innate sense of humor well with MUGGING for the camera and feigning a punch  at celebrities whenever they would engage him .
> 
> RIP. Champ !



It was a time when African Americans were treated very poorly in the military.  The government was still working hard to enforce Jim Crow Laws and here we had a strong popular African American who had the gall to stand up for what he believed.  Our thinking of the era was powerfully influenced by his vilification by the military, the FBI and the government.  I don't believe he changed.  Society changed around him.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Pacifist my ass. He had no problem getting in a ring & beating someone to a pulp. Draft dodger.


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## JimG. (Jun 4, 2016)

G.O.A.T.

He made boxing a global event. When Ali boxed the world stopped and watched. 

The first athlete to "brand" himself. A social icon. I will always love him for telling Don King the "get the f**k away from me" after he beat George Foreman in 74. There are not enough words to describe his impact.

A person who will in many ways live forever.


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## Edd (Jun 4, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Pacifist my ass. He had no problem getting in a ring & beating someone to a pulp. Draft dodger.



We all saw this dumb comment coming a mile away right?


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## joshua segal (Jun 4, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Pacifist my ass. He had no problem getting in a ring & beating someone to a pulp. Draft dodger.



Interesting. Are you are implying (or stating) that anyone who participates in competitive sports cannot be a pacifist?  I don't know if Ali was a pacifist or not - but it was clear that he opposed the Viet Nam War and it was also the case that he received far harsher treatment than any Caucasian would have received.  If he was a draft dodger, he was in good company and to give equal treatment to both political sides of the aisle: Bill Clinton and "W".


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## deadheadskier (Jun 4, 2016)

Yeah, it's definitely not apples to apples.  I'm sure many NFL players would want nothing to do with killing others even though they play a very violent game every Sunday.  Comparing sport to war makes little sense.


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## Warp Daddy (Jun 4, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Yeah, it's definitely not apples to apples.  I'm sure many NFL players would want nothing to do with killing others even though they play a very violent game every Sunday.  Comparing sport to war makes little sense.



QFT many college athletes especially of that time frame ( myself included ) believed that the so called Gulf Of Tonkin Incident was a false flag . Many chose alternative paths rather than choosing to kill strivctly for the benfit of the military industrial complex . The so called resolution and incident were later believed by the mainstream to be bogus . I had a teammate at the time on our freshman football squad who was older and had served as an advisor in Vietnam in 1960-61 when it was a not yet a hot war and the area had been effed up atDien  Bien   PHu when the French had screwed up . 

The VietNam conflict was highly unpopular at the time , many served to their credit ( i had a former hs teammate killed on his first day at Cam Ram Bay on a perimeter incursion )  Much turmoil , much social unrest and tension in WWII family who now had kids in college saying to old LBJ , HELL NO !,


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## steamboat1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Which part about serving your country when called don't you understand?

 Maybe we should just roll over & give it away because we object to violence.

 Like I said no hero in my book.

Ask the 58,220 servicemen who died in Vietnam.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 5, 2016)

Are you a veteran steamboat? Have you ever had to make that choice?


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## dlague (Jun 5, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Are you a veteran steamboat? Have you ever had to make that choice?



Well I am and it is a part of his story that bothers me a bit.  Then again, times were different then so I do not cast judgement.  In the same respect my son served in Afghanistan but he volunteered to be in today's Army.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 5, 2016)

dlague said:


> Well I am and it is a part of his story that bothers me a bit.  Then again, times were different then so I do not cast judgement.  In the same respect my son served in Afghanistan but he volunteered to be in today's Army.



Thank you and your son  for your military service.  I certainly respect anyone's choice either way.  I'm not anti-military. I'm also not against those who reject fighting the war of politicians, which Vietnam certainly was.

  All vets are heroes, but I don't feel it's the duty of every man born here to be willing to die for the country in foreign lands that pose little threat.  Not all wars are fought to protect our way of life.  The wars in the Middle East certainly can be argued are doing just that.  Vietnam not nearly so much IMO.  I come from a military family myself. My grandfathers both fought in WW2 (one driving Patton's Jeep for a spell). My dad served in Korea.  I respect the hell out of anyone who has served, but I don't cast judgement on those who choose not to.


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## jimk (Jun 5, 2016)

JimG. said:


> He made boxing a global event. When Ali boxed the world stopped and watched.



Ali's status as a very famous Muslim from the "western world" gave him a unique global reach that perhaps no other major American celebrity ever had before him.  Promoters capitalized on this by holding several of his biggest fights in exotic foreign locations.  Among the many comments I read/heard yesterday that really drove this point home was from a guy from Pakistan (95% Muslim).  This guy said he was from a rural area and remembered back in the 1970s when 500 people from his village gathered around a small TV set to watch one of Ali's televised fights.  He said Ali was literally the *only* person they knew of from outside the country of Pakistan!


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## bigbog (Jun 5, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> It was a time when African Americans were treated very poorly in the military.  The government was still working hard to enforce Jim Crow Laws and here we had a strong popular African American who had the gall to stand up for what he believed.  Our thinking of the era was powerfully influenced by his vilification by the military, the FBI and the government.  I don't believe he changed.  Society changed around him.



+1
...and add that politicians were busy sending everybody to Vietnam except their sons and every college boy, so I felt no ill will against his decisions.   A terrific boxer.


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## jack97 (Jun 5, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> It was a time when African Americans were treated very poorly in the military.  The government was still working hard to enforce Jim Crow Laws and here we had a strong popular African American who had the gall to stand up for what he believed.  Our thinking of the era was powerfully influenced by his vilification by the military, the FBI and the government.  I don't believe he changed.  Society changed around him.



ditto w/ +1.... He fought the draft back in 67. A time when in the south, separate but equal was close to status quo.  US had race riots through out the decade and Alabama gov Wallace in 1963 ran on a segregation platform.

 imo... calling him a draft dodger is too simplistic. Blacks were required to serve when their number got call but to lived in a country where they had no representation and were not really treated as equals.


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## Warp Daddy (Jun 5, 2016)

I too  came from a military family , the men in our family on both sides all served in WWII . I have a deep respect for all who served then or serve today as volunteers . They are heros in my book .

This Vietnam war at the time was a source of great turmoil and contentious discussion among many families like mine . IT was the first time that THINGS were really foggy and unclear as to defining incidents , motivations etc and the idea of blind allegiance was being challenged by many .Blame that phenomena on whatever you wish , but times had changed and were never going back .

I was never drafted as the lottery was in play at the time.Although i never joined the PROTEST MOVEMENT of the time ,i was personally opposed to the basis for that war as previously stated . MY career also exempted me . 

BUT my career choice was made without reservation as a hs kid. I was raised near a college campus and my dad was very involved with the Alumni office and i spent lots of time on campus and grew to really enjoy the environment . So i knew from an early age that working on a campus would be my goal .

Today's professional army is a different animal . They are very well educated , articulate , aware of the need to effectively manage expectations and have strong communication and human relation skills . I had the privilege of providing Executive Leadership Development  / Strategic Planning seminars to the command leadership staff at Fort Drum ( nearby ) on several occasions back in the time of Desert Shield and Desert Storm . These men and women are among the finest i've had the opportunity to work with .


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## JimG. (Jun 5, 2016)

You don't need to like someone or their opinions to respect the obvious impact they have/had on the world.

Look at the wide diversity of people who he called friend. Howard Cosell comes to mind first.


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## jack97 (Jun 5, 2016)

JimG. said:


> You don't need to like someone or their opinions to respect the obvious impact they have/had on the world.



Exactly..... another point people often overlook is that the chances of Ali being in harms way in Vietnam was slim to none. He was the world champ at the time, if he became a casualty due to a fire fight it would have been a rally cry to end or put more heated attention on a controversial war (conflict as the US called it) . Ali and his handlers knew he would be put in rear guard duty much like Roger Staubach did when he served. Or in a best case scenario tour to boast moral and ease racial tension as J Louis did in WW2. IMO, Ali did not want used as a symbol in this manner.


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## witch hobble (Jun 5, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Comparing sport to war makes little sense.



I'll avoid the obvious troll by steamboat and ask if you really believe this?  I played organized sports and my children do currently. I'm a relatively peaceful person.  But I think sport is training for war....or at least an evolution from that idea.  Sooooooo maaaany war metaphors and allegories in the terminology.

Ball fields and courts are where you win battlefield glory these days.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 5, 2016)

witch hobble said:


> I'll avoid the obvious troll by steamboat


Why a troll? How many people do you know that either served or died in Nam? Me quite a few & of those who returned many have either malaria or have affects from agent orange not to mention the psychological effects. No I didn't serve but did have a lottery number & would have gone if called, Ali refused. Just because you disagree with the way I feel doesn't make it a troll. The draft ended the year I became eligible.


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## witch hobble (Jun 5, 2016)

Two uncles who served.  Raised by a father who was a quiet objector and avoided service on the student deferrment -> corporate job track. None of that relevant, but you asked.

Anytime someone publicly slanders a beloved person less than 36 hours after they've died it seems a bit trollish to me, regardless of how much the war affected you.

Standing up for his belief system and moral code won him a lot of glory in the court of public opinion in the long run. Sorry you feel different and that you came across as a dick.


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## JimG. (Jun 5, 2016)

witch hobble said:


> I'll avoid the obvious troll by steamboat and ask if you really believe this?  I played organized sports and my children do currently. I'm a relatively peaceful person.  But I think sport is training for war....or at least an evolution from that idea.  Sooooooo maaaany war metaphors and allegories in the terminology.
> 
> Ball fields and courts are where you win battlefield glory these days.



The Maya played a game resembling basketball.

The losers were beheaded.


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## Scruffy (Jun 5, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Pacifist my ass. He had no problem getting in a ring & beating someone to a pulp. Draft dodger.



Draft dodger, you mean, like John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, and Elvis getting a cushy ride in the Army? to name a just a few. 

Boxing was viewed by most as a legit sport back then, not a blood sport. Revisionist history is a bitch.

I come from a long line of military service personnel, dating back to the Revolution, Civil, WWI, II, Korea, an Vietnam. All proud to serve, and yes some unfortunately die. I can tell you, no one in my family was for the Vietnam war. This country has a very strong patriotism streak running through it, and the country spoke in the 60's/70's, there was no good reason to be fighting over there. Eventually public opinion and common sense won over and we did what Ali, Seegar, Dylan, and others were advocating for, we withdrew.


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## Edd (Jun 5, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why a troll? Just because you disagree with the way I feel doesn't make it a troll. The draft ended the year I became eligible.



Troll-ish because you dived into a simple thread about a deceased person who meant something to a lot of people and were compelled to piss on it. You knew it, and did it anyway.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 5, 2016)

Maybe you can go back & watch his cartoon reruns.


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## Edd (Jun 5, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Maybe you can go back & watch his cartoon reruns.



Took care of that yesterday.


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## Not Sure (Jun 6, 2016)

Didn't pay a lot of attention to his career as a kid but anytime Cosell was involved it was some funny unpredictable stuff.


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## jimk (Jun 6, 2016)

From his last professional photo shoot, Apr 2016:


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## Warp Daddy (Jun 6, 2016)

This shot was by far the most in character but Saw the OTHER series of "last " photos , his eyes were so incredibly sad as if he KNEW the end was near . The eyes are the window to the soul .


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## SkiFanE (Jun 6, 2016)

Lindsey Vonn posted this pic.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 6, 2016)

Dance like a butterfly except when on skis.......


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## SkiFanE (Jun 7, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Dance like a butterfly except when on skis.......



Arms flailing is kinda butterfly-like


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## JimG. (Jun 7, 2016)

SkiFanE said:


> Lindsey Vonn posted this pic.



He has the first rule of skiing nailed though...he's smiling.

Seems like he might have been a good golfer:

http://www.thepostgame.com/awesome-story-when-muhammad-ali-went-golfing


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