# Mt. Washington



## Oak22 (Jan 28, 2008)

Anyone have any tips/advice on solo Mt. Washington climbs during the winter.  What's the best route?  Am I completely crazy to climb it solo during the winter?

Thanks.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 28, 2008)

Oak22 said:


> Anyone have any tips/advice on solo Mt. Washington climbs during the winter.  What's the best route?  Am I completely crazy to climb it solo during the winter?
> 
> Thanks.




With no knowledge of that mountain, yes you are completely crazy to climb it solo during the winter.  Even experienced hikers have perished there in the winter.

Don't become a statistic like this guy

http://forums.alpinezone.com/22949-mt-washington-avalanche-death.html


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## Mike P. (Jan 28, 2008)

If you are asking the questions, it's very likely you aren't ready to tackle it solo.  

Have you been up Washington before?  How many times?  How much winter experience do you have?  How much solo experience & how much winter solo experience?  

I like to think I'm not crazy since I did solo last March, that said, that was my 14th time up Washington, I had decided not to do it on other days when the weather was bad & had been up twice in November & the previous March went up Monroe on the same trail.  To date, I've done roughly 20 solo winter 4,000 footers & a bunch in November & April too.  It wasn't my intention to solo the day I did Washington but the weather was perfect (mid 20's barely a breeze most of the way) and people backed out the last minute.

The traditional way is up Tuckerman's & the Winter Lion's Head Trail.  That said. I prefer the Ammonoosuc trail from the Cog.  This approach starts about 500 feet higher but has more exposure to the weather which typically comes out of the West or Northwest.  You need to be very familar with the mountain & know the escape routes (& what are not escape routes) very well.


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## riverc0il (Jan 28, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> With no knowledge of that mountain, yes you are completely crazy to climb it solo during the winter.  Even experienced hikers have perished there in the winter.
> 
> Don't become a statistic like this guy
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/22949-mt-washington-avalanche-death.html


I think that is rather harsh without knowing a bit more about Oak22's talents, abilities, history, etc. Soloing during the winter is most certainly not crazy even with no previous knowledge of a mountain. Doing so without a good plan, the skills, and mountaineering knowledge would be crazy. Though if you have to ask if it is crazy, then it sounds like more research may be a good idea as an experienced mountaineer with thorough research could likely make that call for themselves.


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## cbcbd (Jan 29, 2008)

I don't think it's crazy, I've soloed up it many times and some of those on technical ice routes. It's up to you to see how comfortable you are with your winter experience - if you start feeling uncomfortable or the weather gets gnarly, turn around.

Going in from the East/Pinkham Notch, on a weekend, I'd take the Lion Head Winter route and I doubt you'll be solo for all of it - it's the chosen route for many guides taking clients up to the summit. This route is the shortest without avalanche danger from that side of the mountain.


What is your mountaineering experience?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 29, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> I think that is rather harsh without knowing a bit more about Oak22's talents, abilities, history, etc. Soloing during the winter is most certainly not crazy even with no previous knowledge of a mountain. Doing so without a good plan, the skills, and mountaineering knowledge would be crazy. Though if you have to ask if it is crazy, then it sounds like more research may be a good idea as an experienced mountaineer with thorough research could likely make that call for themselves.



Maybe a bit harsh not knowing his talents, but I still think on that mountain, going solo on a first ascent is probably not the best idea.  I sighted the example of the individual who died there just the other week whom apparently did have a lot of experience in the Whites.  Perhaps that person though experienced, did not have great talent, who knows.  

Read your last sentence.  That's the exact reason I labeled the idea crazy.


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## Oak22 (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks for all the input.  I have been "out of the game" for a few years but I have a fair amount of ice climbing and some ascents of mountains such as Mt. Mansfield, Camel's Hump in my past.  I used to live in the area and spent many days in Smugglers Notch.  I used to live by the rule of never climbing alone, but just thought I would check and see if my ideas seemed off the wall to anyone.  I would feel pretty good about climbing Washington alone, on the right day(right conditions).  

I don't have much experience on Washington itself, so perhaps I'll log some more time with a partner.

Thanks.


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## David Metsky (Jan 29, 2008)

Washington has significantly greater falling/sliding danger then anything in the Greens.  You'll need self-arrest skills and gear for a safe ascent.  You'll be on crampons for much longer then anything in the Greens, and you'll be exposed to the elements in potentially much worse weather for much longer.  It's all part of a spectrum, but Washington has the ability to throw much worst stuff at you then anywhere else around here.

You might want to try something like Madison or Eisenhower as a shake down cruise to make sure your gear is all up to snuff before tackling Washington.  Going with one or two people who've climbed Washington is certainly not a bad idea.


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## Mike P. (Jan 29, 2008)

cbcbd,  

While Lion's Head is the preferred route & has far less avalanche danger than the headwalls, it does have some exposure.  It's probably a good idea to avoid the trail if the avalanche conditions are extreme.

Oak22, you sound like you probably know your gear pretty well as an ice climber, knowing the terrain would be a big help though,  the amount of time & space above treeline is much more than anything in Greens.  Dave suggestions on shake down trips are good choices.  Going up Lion's Head will mean you will have company unless you are going mid-week on a bad day.  Bad days of course are best avoided


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## cbcbd (Jan 29, 2008)

Mike P. said:


> cbcbd,
> 
> While Lion's Head is the preferred route & has far less avalanche danger than the headwalls, it does have some exposure.  It's probably a good idea to avoid the trail if the avalanche conditions are extreme.


I understand nothing is 100% safe but the LH Winter route avoids avalanche terrain and existing slide paths pretty well and they usually route it that way - I think if a slide path developed crossing it's path they'd probably move the route (I think they have done in the past). I've been on the Winter route during "High" avalanche danger hiking beside a bunch of guided groups - one of those groups was guided by an AIARE III certified instructor - I'm not saying that makes him and all 30+ people on the route that day immune, just saying it's a pretty well known safe path when avy danger is high.
Plus, if the avy rating is at "Extreme" that probably means you'd be hiking in a blizzard with a lot of snow coming down and you'd have whiteout conditions above treeline. That's when you skip the hike and go skiing! 

And just to clarify for the OP: The Lion's Head Winter route is NOT the regular Lion's Head summer route.


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## Mike P. (Jan 29, 2008)

It could mean you are hiking the day after a blizzard where lots of snow was transported to lee slopes, perhaps after a warm few days & then some rain & freeze put a slick coating on the old top layer. 

I believe the Winter Lion's head trail was last moved around 1995 or 1996 when a slide took out part of the old route.  I don't believe it was an avalanche but a rock slide.  The old route was the safer route for winter travel & they rejoined  the old one where they could.  I think this was described some in the 26th WMG.

Personally I prefer the approach from the other side, it means picking a better day due to the increased weather exposure but I'm okay doing Monroe if I get up to LOC & don't like the weather, I'm better accessing weather I like.  

Not sure why guided groups have not switched some trips over to the other side, unless it's strictly for the view of the ravines & the warm climbers room at PNVC & their guides like taking people they don't really know up a route they have done dozens (100's?) of times before.  (When I've taken school groups there is something to be said about routes you know real well)      

Outside of another trip up Huntingtons & I haven't been up Nelson Crag yet, I really wouldn't lose any sleep if I ever saw that side of Washington again, too much traffic.


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## cbcbd (Jan 29, 2008)

Mike P. said:


> Not sure why guided groups have not switched some trips over to the other side, unless it's strictly for the view of the ravines & the warm climbers room at PNVC & their guides like taking people they don't really know up a route they have done dozens (100's?) of times before.  (When I've taken school groups there is something to be said about routes you know real well)


My guess is for the view of the ravines and the shorter drive for many of the guiding services like IMCS, EMS, etc who are coming from N Conway


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