# Lange WC 160 (ZA-130) Flex



## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

Hi all, new to the board.  Was hoping for any feedback on the Lange WC 160 in the ZA flex (130).  Returned to the sport last year after many years (15+) away.  Bought a pair of Krypton Rampage (25.5) for learning the new shaped skis and cruising with the young kids.  They really packed out and were quite soft (probably one shell size too big to start also- a 24.5 would probably have worked better).  Anyway, went on a boot fitting journey this fall-- tried every make and model out there (juniors and womens too) to find a boot that fit my VERY narrow and VERY low volume foot (and somewhat small foot-- a MM or two over 26.5).  Had to try a pair of the Krypton Pros- but still quite wide for me and would require much padding.

At stop number 4- ended up being fitted for the Langes- which are snug- (92mm last) to say the least, but I sense will break in to fit very well after a day or two of discomfort (hopefully not agony).  Love the fact that the boot hugs my foot everywhere so well (surprisingly enough, also a 25.5 shell, but a shorter BSL than the Dalbellos by a few MM-- the 24.5 Lange shell fit the toe a little better (would have needed a slight punch or grind probably) but could not be made to work with instep height (which is very low on this boot)  and cuff position on leg.  My concerns are: (1) too much boot- the flex range is much shorter than the Rampage (and stiffer)- and fear I will overski everything; and (2) the comfort of plug boots when just cruising with the kids (will it prove exhausting or cold).  I am 5'9" and 150 lbs- athletic advanced skier who stays primarily on trail-- bumps and steeps are my favorite spots when not with the kids (but they are learning to love them as well).

The fitter, who appeared quite knowledgeable (not that I would know) didn't think either was an issue, and actually thought the ZB (140) flex may have been the ticket.  Anyone skied these boots- from what I have read the flex range is much shorter than the WC 150 also?


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## Greg (Nov 13, 2008)

I'm surprised you found the Krypton Pros too big. I have the lowest volume, flattest, narrowest and skinnies feet/ankle around and they fit great. Also realize that there is a lot of adustment on the Krypton. The critical middle buckle can be repositioned both at the clip and where the cable goes under the cuff to tighten it up. The top buckle clip too can be moved. The gold ID liner is very low volume as well. Also, don't form any misconception about how the boot feels prior to heating the liner. It's like night and day.

A 130 flex boot (I know flex ratings vary by manufacturer) sounds more like a race boot and probably overly stiff for bumps and free skiing. Only you know your foot though so if it seems like it will work for you, go for it.

And welcome to AZ! :beer:


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

I think the Kryptons are generally 98mm last-- and the fitter (I think) had my foot at a 26.8 length and 90 MM width with no volume to speak of....While the Kryptons are narrower than many boots out there-- I am told they are not particularly narrow (contrast race boots).  Yes, the Lange's are a race boot, full plug- thick shell for fitting, thin lace up liner... PITA to put on and take off- but fit like a second skin.  I had zero interest in a race boot- and protested quite vehmently.  However, it is my understanding that my narrow foot really limits the boots I will be able to fit into.  It also appears that no one makes a high performance/performance boot that narrow, and that only the race models go much below 98mm, with only a very few at 92 mm-- and most, if not all of those save the Lange model I am in- are at a 150 flex- OUCH. 

Your thoughts are my very concerns- re: stiff= no good in bumps, although I have read on other boards that many skiers don't mind stiff in bumps- may be a personal thing.  

My kingdom for a truly narrow performance boot for mere mortals!

Thanks for your thougths and the welcome to the board-- I'll be the guy in the bumps on Temptor flailing wildly from the back seat in overly stiff baby blue boots!


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## wa-loaf (Nov 13, 2008)

Definitely probably more boot than you need, but some selective cutting by a good boot fitter can ease up the stiffness if you find it to be too much.


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes- it is again my understanding (limited) that they can be softened-- either through notches (of limited effectiveness in this model due to the vertical cuff?????- or so I have read) or through removal of shell bolts in rear.  

Haveing never been in a Lange- am wondering about how stiff the ZA plastic (130 flex) is as compared to other boots (I know all flexes vary by maker/model)- and having never been in a plug- am wondering how tiring/cold it may get after hour 7 at low to medium speeds with the kids in tow!


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## Greg (Nov 13, 2008)

Madroch said:


> Thanks for your thougths and the welcome to the board-- I'll be the guy in the bumps on Temptor flailing wildly from the back seat in overly stiff baby blue boots!



:lol: Where are you from? Do you ski Sundown a lot?


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## Mildcat (Nov 13, 2008)

I'd be nervous of a "boot fitter" that says that high of a flex rating isn't an issue. Sounds like he was just trying to make the sale. Where are you located? I'm sure people could recommend a good boot fitter.


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

Greg said:


> :lol: Where are you from? Do you ski Sundown a lot?



From central CT- proud first time owner of a season's pass at Sundown-- grew up there as a kid, left the sport- returned as a day ticket guy last year-- skied much more than anticipated- bit the bullet this year!


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

Mildcat said:


> I'd be nervous of a "boot fitter" that says that high of a flex rating isn't an issue. Sounds like he was just trying to make the sale. Where are you located? I'm sure people could recommend a good boot fitter.



Nervous I am-- but I did flex them full range quite effortlessly (albeit at 70 degrees in the shop).  The guy was recomended by a couple of other shops in the central CT area who coulnd't fit my foot with anything they carried in shop.


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## Greg (Nov 13, 2008)

Madroch said:


> From central CT- proud first time owner of a season's pass at Sundown-- grew up there as a kid, left the sport- returned as a day ticket guy last year-- skied much more than anticipated- bit the bullet this year!



Excellent!  Be sure to join us on *[thread="28164"]Wednesday nights[/thread]* at Sundown. You'll find most of us endlessly lapping the bumps on Temptor and in the spring on Gunbarrel!


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## bvibert (Nov 13, 2008)

Madroch said:


> Nervous I am-- but I did flex them full range quite effortlessly (albeit at 70 degrees in the shop).  The guy was recomended by a couple of other shops in the central CT area who coulnd't fit my foot with anything they carried in shop.



There's only a couple of guys in CT (that I know of) who I would let fit my boots, and several that I wouldn't let anywhere near my feet again.  If you haven't been to Dave Newman at Ski Market in Avon and/or to Peter at Suburban Sports in Berlin then I suggest you do so before making any decisions.

Definitely come to some of our Wednesday nights of bump fun.  We'll be easy to spot...


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## migs 01 (Nov 13, 2008)

that is probably as stiff as I would go for general free skiing.  You'll definitely need to be aggressive when skiing with it. if it feels like you skiing sucks then your probably not workin the boot. Personally i would have went with a softer boot for the type of skiing that you'll be doing.  I think it's easier to stiffen a boot than soften it.  If it's a true plug then you're feet may feel slightly colder than you're used to.  As long as you don't wear cotton on you're feet you should be fine.  I've been skiing lange boots for 15 years and they always feel really tight at first but break in nicely.  What shop did you go to?


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## migs 01 (Nov 13, 2008)

Madroch said:


> Nervous I am-- but I did flex them full range quite effortlessly (albeit at 70 degrees in the shop).



flexing the boot while standing still in the shop and while in motion on skis are completely different.  also, flexing should come from the ankles and not the knees.  You can flex any boot completely by bending you kness and putting you body weight on it.  when u use your ankles it's a different story.

In the end as long as your happy with them then that's all that counts.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Nov 13, 2008)

plug boots like that are somewhat of a blank canvas in the hands of a skilled bootfitter...they can be ground to fit where needed, soles can be lifted, canted, etc.  Its very easy to soften the flex on those boots...the guys at suburban sports seem to know what they're doing and skidmarks who posts in here a fair amount could take care of you.  Don't fret...easy enough to fix.


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

As to the Wed. nights at Sundown, a couple of other elder bumpers and I are currently discussing what night to make our weekly "sans kids" outing.  Is Wed. otherwise okay crowds wise, etc?  If so, we will make it our night.  We will also be there with the rug rats every Sat/Sun (except when the scheduling gods permit an outing to Snow or Sugurbush).

Visited Ski Market- not Dave, and it was upon the suggestion of the gentlemen who helped me there (after going through every men's, women's and junior boot in stock) that I saw John Rush at Ski Tunes in Simsbury.  I liked him, but I wouldn't know a good fitter if he bit me in the back side.  He did all the basic stuff I am aware of- measurement, shell fit, stance, alignment, etc.- and was tinkering an awful lot with the boots (buckles, cant (maybe) etc.

Thoughts on John at Ski Tunes?


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

As to going with a softer boot- I would have preferred that, but couldn't find one narrow enough.  This is the softest boot I could find in a 92mm last.  If this boot can be effectively softened- than the only issue will be the plug fit- which I am sure I will love most times if it does not get me too cold/tired when cruising with the kids.


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## Greg (Nov 13, 2008)

Madroch said:


> As to the Wed. nights at Sundown, a couple of other elder bumpers and I are currently discussing what night to make our weekly "sans kids" outing.  Is Wed. otherwise okay crowds wise, etc?  If so, we will make it our night.  We will also be there with the rug rats every Sat/Sun (except when the scheduling gods permit an outing to Snow or Sugurbush).



First of all, it's not always a Wednesday, but that's usually the night we shoot for. Tuesday they hold the CISC racing. I think they did Nastar on Thursday last year, but I don't see any mention of it on their site this year. But as you probably know, most weeknights the place empties out after 7:30 pm. We meet at the sun deck on Nor'easter at 7:30. Once Gunbarrel is seeded at the end of Febriary, we'll probably have to move the meet-up spot to the top of Gunny. No sense in wasting a bump run!


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## Madroch (Nov 13, 2008)

I did not know the place empties out after 7:30-- good to know.  I only hit a few nights last year-- including the Friday night with the storm-- that was a good bump night-- went nonstop.


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## Greg (Nov 13, 2008)

Madroch said:


> I did not know the place empties out after 7:30-- good to know.  I only hit a few nights last year-- including the Friday night with the storm-- that was a good bump night-- went nonstop.



Oh God. That was my best night ever at Sundown. Skied from 3 pm to closing. I pray we get a few of those this season:





Sorry for the hijack. I'm a little stoked for Sundown bumps...


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## bvibert (Nov 13, 2008)

Weeknights all all pretty similar crowds wise, except Friday nights.  Friday nights typically have the highest number of school groups overall and also the highest number that stay later because of it not being a school night.

I don't know anything about John at Ski Tunes, never been.


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## Mildcat (Nov 14, 2008)

Madroch said:


> As to going with a softer boot- I would have preferred that, but couldn't find one narrow enough.  This is the softest boot I could find in a 92mm last.  If this boot can be effectively softened- than the only issue will be the plug fit- which I am sure I will love most times if it does not get me too cold/tired when cruising with the kids.



After reading this thread I'll never complain about losing a toenail again. Although I've made a couple of bad choices my feet are pretty easy to fit. If you're worried about plug boots being too cold would Hotronix or a Boot Glove help?


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## Madroch (Nov 14, 2008)

Mildcat said:


> After reading this thread I'll never complain about losing a toenail again. Although I've made a couple of bad choices my feet are pretty easy to fit. If you're worried about plug boots being too cold would Hotronix or a Boot Glove help?



Never heard of either-- and hoping I never have to-- but thanks!

Lost a toenail in a boot that was too big last year-- my own fault-- driving from the back seat in ice bumps.  It has grown back just in time....


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## snowmonster (Nov 19, 2008)

I would not put Hotronics in a plug boot. If the boot has been fitted to your foot, you don't want anything in the boot except a footbed, your socks and your feet.

I ski in a Lange WC 120. I take a lot of heat for the color but I like the fit. It's 98 mm across the ball of the foot and that's just about right for my narrow feet but my instep is a bit high so it's a tight squeeze. The flex on the 120s are just right for racing and doing some off-piste. They are a PITA to take off. Usually, I have to sit by the fire and have a drink to warm them up before even trying to remove them. Since the boots you are looking at are stiffer than the 120s, I imagine a wrestling match in the lodge.

My bootfitter is up in NH and he was our resident bootfitter here at AZ in seasons past. I like his work and he's been good to me and my feet.


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## skidmarks (Nov 19, 2008)

*WC for the bumps?*

That lange is going to be a beast at best. With a lot of work it could work. John Grush who is the guy you're talking about at Ski Tunes knows his stuff. This will be a real project. 

For bumps I would still go Krypton ID or Full Tilt. I want to see a picture of your foot and then compare it to bvibert's.

Krypton Rampage is kind of a soft boot with a very plush liner. More of a tweener boot. The Gold ID liner should be dense enough not to pack out. Sizes start at 24.


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## Greg (Nov 19, 2008)

skidmarks said:


> and then compare it to bvibert's.



I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

I have to hand it to you guys that get so intimate with other peoples' feet.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2008)

IMHO, that 130 will have to be skied VERY aggressivley to work for you---if not you could get a bad case of Lange Bang......I've been in Langes now for 20yrs, like you I have a narrow foot and their boots fit awesome once my guy gets done with them. You may want to look at the Comp 100-120---get those 130's outside and look out


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## bvibert (Nov 19, 2008)

Greg said:


> I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...
> 
> I have to hand it to you guys that get so intimate with other peoples' feet.



It's a little creepy.  He was putting red lipstick on my feet...


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## skidmarks (Nov 19, 2008)

bvibert said:


> It's a little creepy.  He was putting red lipstick on my feet...



As long as we don't get out the purple lipstick you're okay.............


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## Madroch (Nov 19, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> IMHO, that 130 will have to be skied VERY aggressivley to work for you---if not you could get a bad case of Lange Bang......I've been in Langes now for 20yrs, like you I have a narrow foot and their boots fit awesome once my guy gets done with them. You may want to look at the Comp 100-120---get those 130's outside and look out



I have been told that the Comp 100-120 will be too wide-- 

As to the Kryptons with the Gold liner and the Full Tilt- also told too wide-- as an aside, the flex does not appear too much stiffer than the Pro with the black tongue- albeit the flex is much shorter than in the Pro- you hit a WALL quickly in the WC

According to John Grush- the WC is going to be the best fit-  and he maintains (1) the 130 flex will not be a problem (he was even suggesting the 140 for some reason!!!); and (2) if it is- he can fix it.

I am glad to here that John knows his stuff-- the boots are bears-- but I have to say-- (after shamefully admitting that I wear them for an hour or so every night in my skis flexing to try and work them in a little) they fit like a second skin-- a truly amazingingly feeling fit.  My feet do not move around in the boot AT ALL-- it would be claustrophibic but for the fact I can wiggle my toes quite a bit without any other portion of the foot moving.

I know there will be hot spots and at least one circulation issue (that appears to be resolving a bit)- but am hoping that after skiing them a few days (or hours, depending upon pain) and a few visits to John- that they will work.

Maybe this weekend I will get a test drive---look out below...


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## Madroch (Nov 19, 2008)

skidmarks said:


> That lange is going to be a beast at best. With a lot of work it could work. John Grush who is the guy you're talking about at Ski Tunes knows his stuff. This will be a real project.
> 
> For bumps I would still go Krypton ID or Full Tilt. I want to see a picture of your foot and then compare it to bvibert's.
> 
> Krypton Rampage is kind of a soft boot with a very plush liner. More of a tweener boot. The Gold ID liner should be dense enough not to pack out. Sizes start at 24.



The Rampage was VERY soft (even at its stiffest flex, it would be too soft for me 99% of the time- even in the bumps)- and packed out wildly, as you note.

As I noted in the above thread, the WC don't seem much stiffer than the Pro- maybe even a little softer (at least at room temp)-- but the range of flex is much much shorter.  

Happy to show you my foot-- I am an exhibitionist at heart-- disregard the bruising from wearing the WCs around the house.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Nov 19, 2008)

bvibert said:


> It's a little creepy.  He was putting red lipstick on my feet...



you prefer it on your lips huh.  low hanging fruit...we need an emoticon for that.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Nov 19, 2008)

if you wanted to, you could make a 150 flex index world cup race boot flex like a rental boot.  Grush can do it, all you have to do is ask.  ski in them a few times first...good to establish a baseline.  

Its easier to make that boot softer than it is to make it look better.


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## Madroch (Nov 20, 2008)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> if you wanted to, you could make a 150 flex index world cup race boot flex like a rental boot.  Grush can do it, all you have to do is ask.  ski in them a few times first...good to establish a baseline.
> 
> Its easier to make that boot softer than it is to make it look better.



Yeah-- it is a bit much visually in baby blue-- but, if possible, it might be a step up aesthetically from my old Rampage...that was one fugly boot.

Exactly what Grush told me-- ski it to establish a baseline and go very gradually from there... no going back to stiff..

I don't want anything too soft.. just got a little concerned with the whole plug "tag"-I'll let it rip and see how it feels.


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## Madroch (Dec 3, 2008)

Well, a report back is due.  Size (25.5) seems to be fine (despite my fear that the 24.5 was the ticket due to toe room in the 25.5), for the moment they are the best fitting and most responsive boot I have owned.  Heel and forefoot remain solid.  After two days, can keep them buckled on lift without narcotics, and even tightened the microadjuster on the lower buckles (on the first rung) one turn for the last two runs (more out of curiosity than need).  No pain, just pressure and responsiveness.  If they pack out extensively I will be very dissapointed.  I have room to tighten on the first rung, but don't want to ever have to clamp it down to the third or fourth rung and distort the shell like I used to on the Kryptons.

Flex is good so far- no Lange bang-even in bumps- but I have only been out in very warm weather (30-45 on flat mush and the occasional Temptor bumps).  While I am a second guesser by nature and profession, I am happy with the size and flex for the moment.  If they prove difficult in the cold, will go get them softened.

It is early December, there are bumps to be had on the local hill, and life is good.


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## trtaylor (Dec 3, 2008)

Madroch said:


> Well, a report back is due.  Size (25.5) seems to be fine (despite my fear that the 24.5 was the ticket due to toe room in the 25.5), for the moment they are the best fitting and most responsive boot I have owned.  Heel and forefoot remain solid.  After two days, can keep them buckled on lift without narcotics, and even tightened the microadjuster on the lower buckles (on the first rung) one turn for the last two runs (more out of curiosity than need).  No pain, just pressure and responsiveness.  If they pack out extensively I will be very dissapointed.  I have room to tighten on the first rung, but don't want to ever have to clamp it down to the third or fourth rung and distort the shell like I used to on the Kryptons.
> 
> Flex is good so far- no Lange bang-even in bumps- but I have only been out in very warm weather (30-45 on flat mush and the occasional Temptor bumps).  While I am a second guesser by nature and profession, I am happy with the size and flex for the moment.  If they prove difficult in the cold, will go get them softened.
> 
> It is early December, there are bumps to be had on the local hill, and life is good.


One accessory you might consider adding is a Booster Strap. If your not familiar with it, it is an eleastic strap that replaces the stock velcro powerstrap. Ask your bootfitter, he'll know about it.

Also, keep the boots warm on the way to the hill. That makes putting them on much easier.


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## Madroch (Dec 3, 2008)

trtaylor said:


> Also, keep the boots warm on the way to the hill. That makes putting them on much easier.



Did that, and had no problem putting them on, but removing them, even after skiing only in 30 degree whether was a PITA.  I pulled a stomach muscle (or some internal organ or another-not sure I actually have "muscle" in there) pulling them off on Sat. night (insert joke here, I know).  Still sore today.  I can only imagine the effort I will need to de-boot in mid Jan in VT.

Will bring a blow dryer and see if that helps...


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## Madroch (Dec 3, 2008)

Forgot to ask, what will the Booster Stap add?  The standard strap seemed okay- quite sturdy- but I don't know where the Booster would go and what it would accomplish.  But, as my wife will attest, if I can spend more money in pursuit of ski gadgets/gear I will, so let me know?

Anything else I may need-- besides something truly useful like more lessons?


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Dec 3, 2008)

booster straps are elastic, the stock velcro strap is not..it's fixed, no give, no absorbtion, no rebound.  boosters are the balls...I always add them to my boots, keeps a 100% consistently snug fit around your upper leg.


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## snowmonster (Dec 8, 2008)

From one Lange man to another: Unbuckle your boots then have a beer in the lodge before you even attempt to remove those boots. Better yet, get your boots near a fire or a heat source to warm them up. Langes are great on the hill but a total PITA to remove. The stiffer they are rated the bigger the pain.

Booster straps are great but if you have big soccer playing calves like me, you may not need them.


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## Madroch (Dec 16, 2008)

Skied in them in 18 degree weather Sat. night-- got quite stiff-- still worked in the bumps on temptor but were noticeably firmer... if they get much stiffer in even colder weather, may need to soften them a tad.

When I went to unbuckle them- the shells did not move at all- frozen into place... yikes


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## snowmonster (Dec 17, 2008)

Ski around in them a few more days before you have them softened. You may want to wait until somewhere mid-season so you and your boot can just to each other. First step is usually to take out one of the bolts in the back of the boot to soften it up.


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## Madroch (Dec 17, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> Ski around in them a few more days before you have them softened. You may want to wait until somewhere mid-season so you and your boot can just to each other. First step is usually to take out one of the bolts in the back of the boot to soften it up.



Sage advice, will do.  I still flexed them fine (I think???) and there was no shin bang or discomfort, just noticeably stiffer in the colder weather.  As a primarily CT skier, most ski days are at or above 20 degrees, so would only be an issue occassionally in CT and 4-5 days a year in VT when I venture there.


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