# Tech Video - Racetiger vs. Carbon Box Torsion Test



## SandwichTech (Apr 2, 2014)

If you geek out over ski construction, you'll find this interesting...its how we torsion test skis.






The construction and effects of torsional stiffness are discussed in the tech article if you are more curious.


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## Angus (Apr 2, 2014)

good stuff and have enjoyed all your comments re: ski selection and such. i have a ski which is torsionally soft and really dislike but couldn't figure out why - just knew I didn't feel comfortable at high speed or steep, icy pitches until someone pointed out this ski was known for its' softness.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 3, 2014)

Wow.Didn't know one could advertise in these threads.


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## Cannonball (Apr 3, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Wow.Didn't know one could advertise in these threads.



Whatever.  I found it pretty interesting and informative about skis in general.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 3, 2014)

Ya whatever,I found it totally self serving in the guise of "check this out".


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## wa-loaf (Apr 3, 2014)

Belongs in gear thread at any rate.


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## SandwichTech (Apr 4, 2014)

Cannonball and Angus, I am glad you found it interesting.  It was a fun test to do.


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## Angus (Apr 4, 2014)

SIKSkier seemed to take exception to post so I guess maybe you could get the "industry" moniker on your avatar but getting back on subject I think the growth of custom ski manufacturers like yourself is pretty interesting. there are a couple of guys associated with VT based cos. that frequently participate on other skiing boards and discuss frequently new boards. In addition, there are a bunch of folks who are skilled enough to be making skis in their shops for themselves and friends - seems to growing in popularity. Met a local at Telluride this year who does that and he explained the whole process of laying down the wood and fiberglass. Seems like a cool business and wish you lots of success.


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## mishka (Apr 5, 2014)

IMHO this test looks more as a advertisement. What is the point of the test? 
 Skis tested build differently and cannot be compared. With enough carbon fiber at 45° torsion test can be compared to 2x4 at some point.
I think this is good test to compare different skis of same construction


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## SandwichTech (Apr 5, 2014)

mishka, the point of the test is to show how different torsion technologies decouple torsion and bending stiffness.  I don't see any reason why you can't compare skis that are built differently.  If they were built the same, there would be no need to compare.  You are absolutely right that enough 45deg reinforcement would be torsionally like a 2x4.  The key difference is that longitudinally, it would be much more flexible than a 2x4 - thats the beauty of composites.  

Is one of our skis in the video - yes (it would be silly not to).  Does the video say that our ski is better - no.  That is not the point at all.  I think quantifying the flex patterns means you can predict difference in behavior.  If I were to draw a conclusion from the results (which the viewer is free to do for themselves), I would say that the Racetiger is probably more forgiving and the Root 78 probably has a higher top-end speed.  This is my experience with torsional stiffness.  What has yours been?


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## Edd (Apr 5, 2014)

mishka said:


> IMHO this test looks more as a advertisement. What is the point of the test?
> Skis tested build differently and cannot be compared. With enough carbon fiber at 45° torsion test can be compared to 2x4 at some point.
> I think this is good test to compare different skis of same construction



He posted this on Epicski also and the discussion of how to test skis gets interesting although over my head fairly quick.  Comparing two skis with different construction seems completely valid to me.  You can have several skis on the market with similar dimensions going for the same customer with notably different builds.


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## mishka (Apr 5, 2014)

Edd said:


> He posted this on Epicski also and the discussion of how to test skis gets interesting although over my head fairly quick.  Comparing two skis with different construction seems completely valid to me.  You can have several skis on the market with similar dimensions going for the same customer with notably different builds.



I saw his thread at Epic. 
Edd your respond prove my point this "test" valid It in form of advertisement.
there is no point in lab like comparing different skis of different construction because they will preform differently.... As a presentation to possible buyer maybe from point of ski maker it is  not. Just like you can't compare sport car with minivan 0 to  60    m/h results.

Small changes in ski construction making a huge difference in how ski preform on the snow. That's the beauty of custom ski making. To me by default custom/one-of-a-kind skis have to be better than mass production skis and need no test like this to prove it


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## Edd (Apr 5, 2014)

Yes, differently constructed skis will likely perform differently. But, if a customer wants to know, like in the video, how stiff one ski is laterally compared to another, I'm not seeing how different construction is relevant. 

If you're looking for which ski is stiffer, period, than the proof is in the pudding. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## mishka (Apr 5, 2014)

we looking on this subject from two different perspective. Yours from point of view of consumer. I am looking at it from point of view of ski maker


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## Edd (Apr 5, 2014)

I think you're correct about that. I don't have your knowledge about skis so it's not immediately evident to me how a ski will perform based on materials alone. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## SandwichTech (Apr 5, 2014)

mishka said:


> To me by default custom/one-of-a-kind skis have to be better than mass production skis and need no test like this to prove it



Again, the point of the video is not to say that my skis are better.  It seems hasty to me to say that custom skis are better than mass production skis, *by default*.  Some Nordicas (and others) use all pre-pregs.  Some Heads have graphene (extremely impressive).  These brands have many decades of experience.  We as custom/indie builders have big shoes to fill - underestimate this at your own risk.  Anyway, I do look at torsional stiffness data as a ski-builder and engineer and find it extremely useful.  Perhaps our design methods are just different.  Can we just leave it at that?  If the analytics side of things doesn't interest you, fine - move on.


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## St. Bear (Apr 5, 2014)

Didn't seem promotional to me at all. AZ needs more posters like SandwichTech.  The added variety is a good thing for the forum.


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## SandwichTech (Apr 5, 2014)

St. Bear, thank you.  Much appreciated!


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## St. Bear (Apr 5, 2014)

No problem. I'll send my address via PM for those free skis we talked about in return, ok?


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## SandwichTech (Apr 5, 2014)

A deal's a deal.


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