# How stiff is your...................



## andyzee (Jan 1, 2009)

How stiff is your boot? I'm presently on my second pair of Nordica Beasts, love these boots but Nordica no longer makes them. Yes, they make the Beast 10, 12, etc... but not the Beast. Forget the exact flex rating on these boots, but I believe it's like 120-130. Figure by the end of the season I'll need to replace these so today I went to look at alternate boots. I tried some with a flex of 85-100, couldn't believe how soft they were. Then stopped in Sports Authority, (yeah I know know, just to waste time) they had some boots that had a flex of 50! You could run a marathon in these puppies  So, what do you ski?


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## 2knees (Jan 1, 2009)

i just looked it up.  my dalbello proton 8's are a 90.  dont even know what that means.


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2009)

2knees said:


> i just looked it up.  my dalbello proton 8's are a 90.  dont even know what that means.



Go to Sports Authority and try on a pair that has a flex of 50, you'll quickly know what it means


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## RootDKJ (Jan 1, 2009)

I have Nordica Speedmachine 12's.  110?  Can't recall and I'm not going to go look.  They are a good stiffness for me, but I went through a lot of work to make them comfortable.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2009)

I have no idea.  I currently ski Krypton Pro's with the stiff tongue in them.  I'm actually considering putting in the back cuff attachment for tomorrow to make them as stiff as they go.  There seems to be times where I flex them over far too much.  Either I like a much stiffer boot than most or the Krypton wasn't designed with a 200 pound skier in mind.  I really like them so far, but there are times where I go to drive forward in a turn and I almost feel like I'm going to flex them to the point I go over the handle bars.


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## Stache (Jan 1, 2009)

This is my 9th season in my Salomon Evo 2s.
They can still be made snug but most of the time for teaching I have them set on "Walk", full flex and only buckled in the last notch. Makes it easy to demonstrate "Tony knows  (toe, knee, nose, lined up) how to ski."


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2009)

Well, I guess that weight is a definite consideration when looking at flex.


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## Dr Skimeister (Jan 1, 2009)

My Lange L10's are 130 flex, my Atomic Hawx 110's are 110.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Jan 1, 2009)

Nordica Supercharger Blower 130 flex.

Andy if you liked the flex and the last of the Beast (Great boot) then the Nordica Speedmachine 14 might be just the ticket for you.


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## Mildcat (Jan 1, 2009)

Nordica Supercharger Enforcers. Flex of 100. I don't think I'd ever need any stiffer than those.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jan 1, 2009)

I think mine are 70s...I used to have langes that were 120s and I prefer a more recreational boot.  My boots are Atomics and they have tons of micro-adjustments which are great,


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## madskier6 (Jan 1, 2009)

My boots are 100-110 flex.  Nordica Speedmachine 10s.  They're stiff enough for me.  When I'm skiing mostly hardpack or there's no soft snow, I flip the switch to 110.  When it's a powder day, I'll dial them back to 100.  I don't want to ski on boots that are too stiff but that's just my personal preference.


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## Mildcat (Jan 1, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Well, I guess that weight is a definite consideration when looking at flex.



What about hight? I would think a taller person would have more leverage to flex them.


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## davidhowland14 (Jan 1, 2009)

my atomics are a flex of 90. Plenty stiff.


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 1, 2009)

Dolomite rage  X10   ( 110-120)


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## riverc0il (Jan 1, 2009)

Flex ratings are not really very accurate as a measurement of boot stiffness because it is not a standardized rating. This is more an issue with the AT boot market as there is a major race to make stiffer boots that are still light enough for touring so flex rating is more marketing gimmick than fact. But the issue is still there for the alpine market as well.

My alpine boots are Salomon X-Wave 10s and they things are rocks. Very stiff. I tried skiing an X Wave 8 once and hated it. I would flex the boot and feel like I was going to go over the handle bars. Also didn't get the support when edging. Just sloppy. Stiffer the better for me.


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2009)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Nordica Supercharger Blower 130 flex.
> 
> Andy if you liked the flex and the last of the Beast (Great boot) then the Nordica Speedmachine 14 might be just the ticket for you.



 I tried the Speedmachine 14 in the store one day, loved the fit and feel. If I saw them on Steep and Cheap or Tramdock, I would not hesitate. I did try the Nordica Supercharger Blower today, nice feel, but may be a bit on the narrow side for me. Hard to tell since they didn't have my size, I wear an 11.5 and the biggest they had was an 11. I know, I know, same thing, but my toes were hitting.


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## Greg (Jan 1, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I have no idea.  I currently ski Krypton Pro's with the stiff tongue in them.  I'm actually considering putting in the back cuff attachment for tomorrow to make them as stiff as they go.  There seems to be times where I flex them over far too much.  Either I like a much stiffer boot than most or the Krypton wasn't designed with a 200 pound skier in mind.  I really like them so far, but there are times where I go to drive forward in a turn and I almost feel like I'm going to flex them to the point I go over the handle bars.



Wow. It is interesting how different people have different opinions. I freaking love the Krypton Pros. I have the soft tongue in, no rear cuff attachment and the 8mm forward lean wedge. I love being able to bend the boot forward that much. No more shin bang, but laterally the things are nice and stiff. Being only 170 lbs, my Speed Machine 12s didn't give all that much. The Krypton Pros with the soft set-up is great for me, but again, I'm 30+ lighter than you.


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## o3jeff (Jan 1, 2009)

My Dalbello Krypton Cross are 90-120, not sure how I have it set up.


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## WoodCore (Jan 1, 2009)

Tecnica Race Pro 130's.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Jan 1, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I tried the Speedmachine 14 in the store one day, loved the fit and feel. If I saw them on Steep and Cheap or Tramdock, I would not hesitate. I did try the Nordica Supercharger Blower today, nice feel, but may be a bit on the narrow side for me. Hard to tell since they didn't have my size, I wear an 11.5 and the biggest they had was an 11. I know, I know, same thing, but my toes were hitting.



Both the Dobbie and Supercharger series don’t come in a half size. Keep in mine Andy that there really is no such thing as a half size in a ski boot. In an 11 and 11.5 the shell and the liner are the exact same size. The only difference in the 2 is the factory foot bed is slightly thicker (and I mean slightly) in the 11.5. Since you will probably replace the foot bed anyway it really doesn’t matter. IMO, it really doesn’t matter even if you don’t. They are the same boot.

Are you saying your toes where not touching the front of the liner in the 11.5 or are you talking about a shell fit? What is your street show size?


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2009)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Both the Dobbie and Supercharger series don’t come in a half size. Keep in mine Andy that there really is no such thing as a half size in a ski boot. In an 11 and 11.5 the shell and the liner are the exact same size. The only difference in the 2 is the factory foot bed is slightly thicker (and I mean slightly) in the 11.5. Since you will probably replace the foot bed anyway it really doesn’t matter. IMO, it really doesn’t matter even if you don’t. They are the same boot.
> 
> Are you saying your toes where not touching the front of the liner in the 11.5 or are you talking about a shell fit? What is your street show size?



I talking about the Supercharger Blower, the salesman told me that hey were not as wide as my Beasts, but I figured it doesn't cost to try them on. I tried and 11 since there is no 11.5, the width, although snug didn't seem bad, But my toes were hitting the tips, so it was hard to really tell how well they fit. I tired on a pair of other Supercharger, I believe they were the Spark, fit seemed good,but the flex seemed too low to me, they were an 11.5. My street shoe size is 13.

The Speed Machine 14, when I tried them last season, fit like gloves For now, I do not need boots, but do anticipate needing them by end of season. As a result I have an advantage in that I do not have to rush. I am trying different ones out and just waiting for the right price. Speed Machine 14s would be nice  price just isn't right for now


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## wa-loaf (Jan 1, 2009)

Nordica Hot Rods, flex 115. That's great for all mountain, but I'd like to go 130/150 for racing. Can't afford 2 pair of boots right now, but it would be cool to have a boot quiver.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Jan 1, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I talking about the Supercharger Blower, the salesman told me that hey were not as wide as my Beasts, but I figured it doesn't cost to try them on. I tried and 11 since there is no 11.5, the width, although snug didn't seem bad, But my toes were hitting the tips, so it was hard to really tell how well they fit. I tired on a pair of other Supercharger, I believe they were the Spark, fit seemed good,but the flex seemed too low to me, they were an 11.5. My street shoe size is 13.
> 
> The Speed Machine 14, when I tried them last season, fit like gloves For now, I do not need boots, but do anticipate needing them by end of season. As a result I have an advantage in that I do not have to rush. I am trying different ones out and just waiting for the right price. Speed Machine 14s would be nice  price just isn't right for now



You have a good feel. The Spark has a 100 MM last while the and the Blower is 98 mm. The Spark is a nice boot, but much softer. 

The Blower is very similar fit to a Dobbie with a more confortable liner. What price point are you trying to hit?


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2009)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> You have a good feel. The Spark has a 100 MM last while the and the Blower is 98 mm. The Spark is a nice boot, but much softer.
> 
> The Blower is very similar fit to a Dobbie with a more confortable liner. What price point are you trying to hit?



Being I'm in no rush, cheap as possible :lol: Since I do not desperately need, it would probably take finding a bargain of about $300. If I get to the point I do need, that changes to $500 - $600


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## Madroch (Jan 1, 2009)

Lange wc 160 (130ish flex).  Seem fine.. was hesitant to go this stiff but so far have been a joy everywhere- even the bumps.


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## freebie (Jan 1, 2009)

I'm in an original pair of beasts too, I'm a little over 6' and 240, set on 110 they seem perfect for me if I want to lay back a little but when it's go time set em at 120 and let the boards rip, only have about 15 days on mine so not sure how fast they break down, how many days did you get out of yours?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2009)

Greg said:


> Wow. It is interesting how different people have different opinions. I freaking love the Krypton Pros. I have the soft tongue in, no rear cuff attachment and the 8mm forward lean wedge. I love being able to bend the boot forward that much. No more shin bang, but laterally the things are nice and stiff. Being only 170 lbs, my Speed Machine 12s didn't give all that much. The Krypton Pros with the soft set-up is great for me, but again, I'm 30+ lighter than you.



Never had shin bang even in the stiffest of bricks on my feet, but I've definitely heard/read from many that they appreciate not having that problem with their Kryptons.  I definitely like them a lot, the fit is fantastic, they just feel way softer to me compared to my Dolomite's, which are rated 110.  If I understand the boot correctly, with the cuff attachment, their supposed to be rated a 140.  With that in, I can still bend the boot over way more than the Dolomite.  It could just be that the flex is different all together because of the different shell design the Krypton has compared to a conventional overlap boot and I have yet to get used to it.  We'll see, looking forward to having my feet in them tomorrow.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 1, 2009)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Both the Dobbie and Supercharger series don’t come in a half size.



Since you are a rep, I take your word, but I own a 27.5 in the Supercharger Enforcer, and had both the 27, and 27.5 Spark on my wall before selling them.


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## Trekchick (Jan 2, 2009)

I have my Krypton Storms set up with a 90 flex and my Kryzma's set up with a 120 flex.

One for playing and bumping and one for attacking the mountain,eh?


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## Philpug (Jan 2, 2009)

*There is no standard for flex rating. *One manufacturer's 100 might be another's 80 or another's 120. The flex is just for a point of reference  in their own line.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Jan 2, 2009)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Since you are a rep, I take your word, but I own a 27.5 in the Supercharger Enforcer, and had both the 27, and 27.5 Spark on my wall before selling them.



Hawk, here's a real brief article from Scarpa hyping their Intuition liners, but I think it supports what I said about half sizes. 

The bootfitter I go too only stocks boots in half sizes cause he sees no point in having the same size boot with 2 different sizes. 

http://thegoat.backcountry.com/blog/2007/01/15/scarpa-intuition-liners/


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## andyzee (Jan 2, 2009)

Philpug said:


> *There is no standard for flex rating. *One manufacturer's 100 might be another's 80 or another's 120. The flex is just for a point of reference in their own line.



And a point of reference is a good thing.




highpeaksdrifter said:


> Hawk, here's a real brief article from Scarpa hyping their Intuition liners, but I think it supports what I said about half sizes.
> 
> The bootfitter I go too only stocks boots in half sizes cause he sees no point in having the same size boot with 2 different sizes.
> 
> http://thegoat.backcountry.com/blog/2007/01/15/scarpa-intuition-liners/



Agree you with you about the half sizes 100%


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## tcharron (Jan 2, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Being I'm in no rush, cheap as possible :lol: Since I do not desperately need, it would probably take finding a bargain of about $300. If I get to the point I do need, that changes to $500 - $600



Zimmermans has an outlet store in Amherst, NH.  Last time I went in, (2 months ago or so?)  they had some Atomic M90 and M100s off year down below 300.  I've also had REAL good luck at Ken Jones/Proctor Jones in Nashua.


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## tcharron (Jan 2, 2009)

I forgot to mention the most important.  :-D

Atomic M100's here.  Atomic does have 'funny' stiffness ratings.  For instance, the B100's are supposed to have the same stiffness as the M100's, but trust me, they're not even close.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Jan 2, 2009)

Fischer X-100..."100" flex index...but as already mentioned, there is no industry standard, just a ref point within a line.  Someday there will likely be an industry standard like DIN settings, but we're not there yet.


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## tjf67 (Jan 2, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Flex ratings are not really very accurate as a measurement of boot stiffness because it is not a standardized rating. This is more an issue with the AT boot market as there is a major race to make stiffer boots that are still light enough for touring so flex rating is more marketing gimmick than fact. But the issue is still there for the alpine market as well.
> 
> My alpine boots are Salomon X-Wave 10s and they things are rocks. Very stiff. I tried skiing an X Wave 8 once and hated it. I would flex the boot and feel like I was going to go over the handle bars. Also didn't get the support when edging. Just sloppy. Stiffer the better for me.




Right on,  Until there is a standard measurement it means nothing.  Heck even boots within the same compnay but under different line are not measured the same.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 2, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I have no idea.  I currently ski Krypton Pro's with the stiff tongue in them.  I'm actually considering putting in the back cuff attachment for tomorrow to make them as stiff as they go.  There seems to be times where I flex them over far too much.  Either I like a much stiffer boot than most or the Krypton wasn't designed with a 200 pound skier in mind.  I really like them so far, but there are times where I go to drive forward in a turn and I almost feel like I'm going to flex them to the point I go over the handle bars.



perfect

put in the back cuff attachment for today.  It stiffened things up just enough that I don't know the exact reason why or technical explanation, but I felt like I could 'stomp' on it a bit more in bigger turns and find that extra gear.  

If I understand the boot right, by adding what I did, the flex is rated at 140.  I still wouldn't call it stiff though in comparison to some race boots I've skied on over the years.  As others have mentioned, no standardized rating across brands, so that explains why a 140 rating with Dalbello doesn't feel that stiff...at least to me anyway.

having a standardized flex rating would definitely help the new boot buying process.


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## rueler (Jan 2, 2009)

Atomic RT 130 flex and Fischer MX 90 flex

I've been skiing the softer Fischer's lately because there's a bit more room in the toe box of the boot. It's given my "sixth toe"  (bone spur on the right pinky) some much needed relief.  I do miss the performance and fit I get out of the Atomics. The pain just isn't worth it right now.


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## dmj (Jan 2, 2009)

Atomic Hawks 100 for me. My feet stay put!


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## skibum9995 (Jan 2, 2009)

Nordica Dobermann 130


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## snowmonster (Jan 3, 2009)

Lange World Cup 120 -- in the baby blue color that Andyzee loves! My next boot will probably be a BD Factor. Just to drive home the point that flex ratings are not standard: the Factor has a rating of 130 which should make it stiffer than the WC 120. However, most people who have tried both the Lange WC 120 and BD Factor (myself included) think the Factor is less stiff.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 3, 2009)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Hawk, here's a real brief article from Scarpa hyping their Intuition liners, but I think it supports what I said about half sizes.
> 
> The bootfitter I go too only stocks boots in half sizes cause he sees no point in having the same size boot with 2 different sizes.
> 
> http://thegoat.backcountry.com/blog/2007/01/15/scarpa-intuition-liners/



O, I agree about the lack of difference between 1/2 and full sizes.  I just read what you had typed as nordica does not make a 1/2 in those series.


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## tcharron (Jan 4, 2009)

dmj said:


> Atomic Hawks 100 for me. My feet stay put!



How they work compared to the M100's?  When I was looking at them, I went with the M100's, purely because I found deal on them.  (199$ last ones special last year)


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## dmj (Jan 4, 2009)

I have only ski'd them twice.  My feet felt great all day.  I ski blues almost all day then hit some blacks later in the day.

  I just got back into skiing after about 14 years off.  
I chose them because they had the best fit on my feet and I got them during a sale.  I bought Ski's and boots at same time.  I got Solomon X wing 10's and the Atomic boots.


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## basemoto (Jan 5, 2009)

Realizing that world cup racers use 150 flex rating boots most recreational skiers do not need this kind of stiffness. Most skiers don't need anything over 130. Must remember that boots stiffen up a lot when your actually on the hill and in the cold, some brands more than others. I notice nordica's stiffen up a good amount in the cold. You don't want to be skied by the boots you want to ski the boot.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jan 5, 2009)

basemoto said:


> Realizing that world cup racers use 150 flex rating boots most recreational skiers do not need this kind of stiffness. Most skiers don't need anything over 130. Must remember that boots stiffen up a lot when your actually on the hill and in the cold, some brands more than others. I notice nordica's stiffen up a good amount in the cold. You don't want to be skied by the boots you want to ski the boot.



I have to ski a looser boot on cold days..the plastic on my ski boots is starting to bend a little..is that bad?


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## basemoto (Jan 5, 2009)

it it seems to affect the integrity of the boot that's bad but if not, it surely doesn't matter. I know an atomic rep and you can actually cut slits in the boot shell for more expansion in the toe area and it wouldn't affect the integrity of the boot.


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## lerops (Jan 5, 2009)

2knees said:


> i just looked it up. my dalbello proton 8's are a 90. dont even know what that means.


 
Same here. I have the funny looking white ones. :razz:



Philpug said:


> *There is no standard for flex rating. *One manufacturer's 100 might be another's 80 or another's 120. The flex is just for a point of reference in their own line.


 
Is there a widely-accepted relative ranking (along the lines of X is stiffer than Y, and Z is the stiffest) or is it a total crapshoot?


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## basemoto (Jan 5, 2009)

i think it is just to get an idea of where the boot stands within a manufacturers line of boot. It is up to what you like really, each boot is different for everyone. Everyone flexes at different pressures, everyone has different leverage in the boot, etc.


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## bigbog (Jan 6, 2009)

*.....*

My Garmont Endorphins are probably ~95 out on the mountain.  A little stiffer boot is smooth but these ski & fit well...sooo...but as said about no true industry standard.   The thicker part of the Intuition liner stiffens the fflex up a little...so gives pretty good response for me @175, and the cuff's forward lean is perfect for me.  Having mentioned info about fflex, can't tell you how often I've spent 1/2 a day in walk-mode before realizing....:lol:


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## andyzee (Mar 2, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Being I'm in no rush, cheap as possible :lol: Since I do not desperately need, it would probably take finding a bargain of about $300. If I get to the point I do need, that changes to $500 - $600



OK, just ordered the Speedmachine 14 ski boots for $399 shipping included!


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## RISkier (Mar 2, 2009)

Dr Skimeister said:


> My Lange L10's are 130 flex, my Atomic Hawx 110's are 110.



How do you like those Hawx?  Aren't they designed to give your foot a little flexibility?  FWIW, I have some Langes rated at 100 flex, but I don't think there's any consistency between brands in terms of flex ratings.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Mar 2, 2009)

andyzee said:


> OK, just ordered the Speedmachine 14 ski boots for $399 shipping included!



You won't be sorry. My oldest son skis those boots and likes them overall better then any he's ever had.


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## andyzee (Mar 2, 2009)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> You won't be sorry. My oldest son skis those boots and likes them overall better then any he's ever had.



I tried them on a couple of times and instantly loved the feel.


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## Mildcat (Mar 3, 2009)

andyzee said:


> OK, just ordered the Speedmachine 14 ski boots for $399 shipping included!



Nice score.


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## bigbog (Mar 3, 2009)

*...sm 14..*

Nice boot andyzee, and nice liner!(if they haven't changed it)
$.01


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## wa-loaf (Mar 4, 2009)

andyzee said:


> OK, just ordered the Speedmachine 14 ski boots for $399 shipping included!



Nice! I might want to upgrade to pair of those in a year or two. I like my boots, but the speedmachines are a hella lot easier to get in and out of.


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## andyzee (Mar 22, 2009)

Took the Speed Machine 14s out for their maiden voyage today. Sweet freakin boot, love em! They are so much more responsive than my old Beasts.


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## Geoff (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm on 2006 Head RS100 shells.  101 the way I have them set up.


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