# Do you let Weather dictate????



## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

YOUR PLANS..

Ok so heres the story. I buddy and I had an overnight hike of a section of the AT in Jersey planned for this past weekend. Obviously as all in the area know the weather wasn't all that great. We had been talking about the trip for about a month and had the dates scheduled well in advance (as we both have semi hectic schedules), I had spent about 1.5 hours on planning and mapping, etc. ...Spoke MANY times during the week...all seemed well. Spoke Friday night the night before the trip..discussed the weather and spoke about the requisite rain gear that would likely be necessary. Everything SEEMED FINE....he seemed prepared and we were going to "do this"...

Fast forward to Saturday morning..bags packed...foods ready...raincovers already on...packs in the car...waiting for buddies 8:00am PRE PLANNED arrival...waiting...waiting...8:10.....8:15....FINALLY 8:20..and he pulls up...nonchalantly gets out of his car with a cup of coffee and says "do you really think we should do this with the strong possibility of rain?" I was like "WHAT?"...I thought he was kidding, but much to my shagrin......he wasn't..he did't want to go??? What did I get up for? What did I pack for? You couldn't have explained your skepticism to me the night before??? The DAYS before?? I mean really the weather report didn't fluctuate for DAYS prior...we direclty discussed the impending rain...whats the deal...

Needless to say I was angry as I was fully prepared to complete the hike wet or not....I have wet weather gear and the shelter I brought would've been 100% fine for the weather...all he had to do was show up with his food, water, and sleeping bag..thats it...I did EVERYTHING else...I had the maps, I had the trail description...all he had to do was show and walk....Well WE DIDN'T GO...I'm STILL angry....don't know when i'll get a chance to slate days for this trip again....big mess and waste of my time...

I think I need to find some more friends that have "like mind" for the outdoors...I think I am going to do this hike without him in the next couple weeks..I think SOLO as I know I'll show and be ready to go  . 

What would any of you done???

Thanks..

M


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## andyzee (Jun 26, 2006)

Dog, Sorry your weekend got screwed up, could understand your frustration. In your place, I would probably have gone alone. Oh, in answer to your question, if I let forcasts dictate my plans, I wouldn't have done half the things I have done in my life. Also, some of the best times I've had were in the rain. Bruno, if you see this, I still don't like to ride a bike in the rain!


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

andyzee said:
			
		

> Dog, Sorry your weekend got screwed up, could understand your frustration. In your place, I would probably have gone alone. Oh, in answer to your question, if I let forcasts dictate my plans, I wouldn't have done half the things I have done in my life. Also, some of the best times I've had were in the rain. Bruno, if you see this, I still don't like to ride a bike in the rain!



Thanks man..I was just totally bummed out...I thought about going alone, but the little lady wasn't super keen on it..I have never overnight soloed and am looking forward to it soon..likely on this very hike.....i bet it'll be "exciting"...

I can't let weather make my decisions either....when you slate the time and have a limited amount of it...you just have to suck it up and go...he had a rain gear set and a rain cover....told him to plastic garbage bag everything, tried to impart any and all knowledge of wet weather hiking I could...he agreed to everything, but when he arrived it was like a different person showed up for the hike....

I ended up just heading up on Sunday and doing the sunrise pond loop myself in the on and off rain...it was great...noone around...hardly got wet....trails weren't too muddy...would've probably been a great overnight...

Oh well...im not planning any more with him in mind...he's done this before, and don't doubt he'll do it again..

Man I need new hiking minded friends...

M


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## Grassi21 (Jun 26, 2006)

Either find like minded friends or one's that you can influence.  Back in college about 7 of us drove out to a trail about 30 minutes from Ithaca (can't remember the name).  We sat in the shelter for 15 minutes and everyone was complaining about the heavy rain that was falling.  It was only a day hike but we had adequate rain gear for the day.  As we were walking back to the car I made one more push to head back to the trail head.  That hike turned out to be one of the most memorable days of our college lives.  After hiking for about 45 minutes the sun came out.  Due to the rain all of the little waterfalls along the side of the trail were gushing.  We snapped a ton of amazing photos, but the best one was the group shot we got with a double rainbow as the back drop.


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

Grassi21 said:
			
		

> Either find like minded friends or one's that you can influence.  Back in college about 7 of us drove out to a trail about 30 minutes from Ithaca (can't remember the name).  We sat in the shelter for 15 minutes and everyone was complaining about the heavy rain that was falling.  It was only a day hike but we had adequate rain gear for the day.  As we were walking back to the car I made one more push to head back to the trail head.  That hike turned out to be one of the most memorable days of our college lives.  After hiking for about 45 minutes the sun came out.  Due to the rain all of the little waterfalls along the side of the trail were gushing.  We snapped a ton of amazing photos, but the best one was the group shot we got with a double rainbow as the back drop.



Gee thanks for cheering me up... HA....

No seriously..I did try to convince...but he had made up his mind..next time its SOLO for me..

M


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## YardSaleDad (Jun 26, 2006)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> Man I need new hiking minded friends...
> 
> M



At least you are on the right board.  I bet you could get an AZ AT trip setup in short order.


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:
			
		

> At least you are on the right board.  I bet you could get an AZ AT trip setup in short order.




Wish I had right from the start...probably would've found more relaible hikers....instead I picked someone i've known since we were 15....what an idiot I am... 

M


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## Greg (Jun 26, 2006)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> Oh well...im not planning any more with him in mind...he's done this before, and don't doubt he'll do it again..


I cannot stand people like that. I look for honesty in friends. If he didn't want to go, he should have told you the night before, at the latest. I would've went alone; you would have not been as pissed about the whole situation then. I had a "friend" that blew me off going skiing once. Never called, never showed. Granted  - he's no longer a friend. Dependability is an important trait to have in a backpacking companion. Doesn't sound like this is the type of guy I'd want to lean on in a critical situation. New friends indeed.


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> I cannot stand people like that. I look for honesty in friends. If he didn't want to go, he should have told you the night before, at the latest. I would've went alone; you would have not been as pissed about the whole situation then. I had a "friend" that blew me off going skiing once. Never called, never showed. Granted  - he's no longer a friend. Dependability is an important trait to have in a backpacking companion. Doesn't sound like this is the type of guy I'd want to lean on in a critical situation. New friends indeed.




Geez skiing wouldnt even have been and issues I USUALLY ski alone..others slow me ;-)

however I agree with you that honesty and relability are very important traits I expect from a "friend"..I had a fleeting thought of not keeping the friendship going, but since I know hes "flighty" like that I shouldve known better....I still woulve been angry if he had told me the night before, but nowhere near as angry as I was when he showed up LATE and still didn't want to go..he actually had the audacity to suggest we just do a "day hike"? I was like man...if im walking in the rain its for a purpose..not just to walk in the rain...then I sent him on his way...basically I just walked into my house and shut the door...don't know when he actually left..

ANYONE WANNA BE MY FRIEND??? Waaaaaaaaa

;-)

M


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## Greg (Jun 26, 2006)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> I had a fleeting thought of not keeping the friendship going, but since I know hes "flighty" like that I shouldve known better....


I'm like you though. I always give people the benefit of the doubt, and based on his apparent enthusiasm during the planning, I don't blame you. Doesn't mean you have to can this guy as a friend though. Perhaps you connect on other levels? The former buddy I had is not a buddy anymore for *several *reasons, including an instance where I got him a job that he blew off, which made me look like an ass. He was undependable on several occasions. Be honest with your bud (that's what you were expecting of him after all). Tell him that you wished he was comfortable enough to tell you sooner he wasn't into it, and then move on with  life.


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## Grassi21 (Jun 26, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> I cannot stand people like that. I look for honesty in friends. If he didn't want to go, he should have told you the night before, at the latest. I would've went alone; you would have not been as pissed about the whole situation then. I had a "friend" that blew me off going skiing once. Never called, never showed. Granted  - he's no longer a friend. Dependability is an important trait to have in a backpacking companion. Doesn't sound like this is the type of guy I'd want to lean on in a critical situation. New friends indeed.



I once drove 1.5 hrs on a beautiful fall day to play poker with some HS friends.  The host got too blasted in Atlantic City the night before and never made it back to his house.  I sat in front of his place for 30 minutes before one of my other boys called to tell me the game was canceled.  I could have done a hike with the wife and dogs but missed that opportunity.  What pissed me off the most is that the host didn't see how he was at fault.  He said he made a killing at the tables and got too drunk....  

I'm only 29, but as we get older your circle of friends gets smaller and smaller.  We had a legitimate crew of 20 guys in HS that did everything together.  Out of those 20 guys I stay in touch with and plan activities with 2 of them.


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## Greg (Jun 26, 2006)

Grassi21 said:
			
		

> I'm only 29, but as we get older your circle of friends gets smaller and smaller.  We had a legitimate crew of 20 guys in HS that did everything together.  Out of those 20 guys I stay in touch with and plan activities with 2 of them.


Very true. Number of friends I still have from high school: 0

I have a few good friends from college still that we keep in touch with. We're all at similar points in our lives (marriage, kids, homes, etc.) so there's still a lot that we have in common now. I still talk with my old college roomate several times per week.


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

Grassi21 said:
			
		

> I once drove 1.5 hrs on a beautiful fall day to play poker with some HS friends.  The host got too blasted in Atlantic City the night before and never made it back to his house.  I sat in front of his place for 30 minutes before one of my other boys called to tell me the game was canceled.  I could have done a hike with the wife and dogs but missed that opportunity.  What pissed me off the most is that the host didn't see how he was at fault.  He said he made a killing at the tables and got too drunk....
> 
> I'm only 29, but as we get older your circle of friends gets smaller and smaller.  We had a legitimate crew of 20 guys in HS that did everything together.  Out of those 20 guys I stay in touch with and plan activities with 2 of them.




This is equally as lame as my situation....my buddy, I don't think, see it as him being at fault either....

The circle of friends does shrink over the years.....this is the 1 and only person I went to high school with that I still talk to...and hang out with.....guess he might be on his way out too...shame..

M


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## Grassi21 (Jun 26, 2006)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> This is equally as lame as my situation....my buddy, I don't think, see it as him being at fault either....
> 
> The circle of friends does shrink over the years.....this is the 1 and only person I went to high school with that I still talk to...and hang out with.....guess he might be on his way out too...shame..
> 
> M



I'm all for forgiveness if the person knows they are wrong, and more importantly, learns a lesson about valuing other people's time as much as theirs.


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

Grassi21 said:
			
		

> I'm all for forgiveness if the person knows they are wrong, and more importantly, learns a lesson about valuing other people's time as much as theirs.



Only time will tell...have heard nothing from him since saturday at 8:25 when I closed the door to my house essentially in his face..

M


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## JimG. (Jun 26, 2006)

You know, I can't tell you how many acquaintances I have who get me on the phone and want to "plan" out a trip to go skiing. I used to play along and even would get annoyed when they wouldn't show up, even though I was going to be there anyway.

Then I realized something...I'M GOING TO BE THERE ANYWAY! Why am I making "plans"? So now, I stop my "friends" with their "plans" and just tell them to call me on the cell phone when they arrive at Hunter and I'll meet them. Much easier! The moral...make your own plans and plan to go alone if that's smart and safe. 

And I put "friends" in that paragraph in parentheses because my best friends are out skiing anyway too.


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## andyzee (Jun 26, 2006)

I used to make plans with friends, learned my lesson, no more. I now plan for myself and my wife, and if someone wants to join us and there's no chance of them screwing things up, that's fine. Of course there are always exceptions to this rule, and I usually wind up kicking myself in the butt after them


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## thetrailboss (Jun 26, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> You know, I can't tell you how many acquaintances I have who get me on the phone and want to "plan" out a trip to go skiing. I used to play along and even would get annoyed when they wouldn't show up, even though I was going to be there anyway.
> 
> Then I realized something...I'M GOING TO BE THERE ANYWAY! Why am I making "plans"? So now, I stop my "friends" with their "plans" and just tell them to call me on the cell phone when they arrive at Hunter and I'll meet them. Much easier! The moral...make your own plans and plan to go alone if that's smart and safe.
> 
> And I put "friends" in that paragraph in parentheses because my best friends are out skiing anyway too.



I've been watching this thread and thinking about my response.  Jim captures my thoughts....just plan for you.  

Might sound anti-social, and yes, I have read, "Bowling Alone," but I have found that for some reason people just don't want to commit to anything anymore.  In college, we had no problem getting 20 people to sign up for a hike, but we'd be lucky if 5 showed up for the event.  Approximately 24 hours before, the "cop-out" phenomenon would begin...or when my voicemail would begin to fill with people calling to get out of the event.  Most would not call me, but leave a "silent" message so they avoided speaking directly to me.  Some E-mailed.  The excuses varied from "too much work" to "something else came up" to nothing at all.  I at first was :angry: but it just made me later :lol: and :roll:  After time, the die-hards would show and we had a good time.  

Now this is a more informal thing that you're experiencing.  Personally, if I commit to something, I commit.  I am weather wary and if things are going to be dangerous, I will push for a rescheduling.  When I hike, I go solo and weather is the biggest factor...for safety, comfort, and to get the "just desserts" of my efforts.  Needless to say, this spring has been pathetic for hiking thanks to the Monsoon season.    In planning, I set a hike and plan when I can do it and the weather cooperates.  If friends come, cool.  If not, I still go.  I understand how frustrating it is though when something is planned so far in advance and your partners back out at the last minute.  My advice would be to announce up front if the plans are rain or shine and set a deadline for the "point of no return."  Communications solves lots of problems.


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## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2006)

andyzee said:
			
		

> I used to make plans with friends, learned my lesson, no more. I now plan for myself and my wife, and if someone wants to join us and there's no chance of them screwing things up, that's fine. Of course there are always exceptions to this rule, and I usually wind up kicking myself in the butt after them




Oh ill likely accept the berry picking invitation only to be a "no show" ;-)

M


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## thetrailboss (Jun 26, 2006)

And one thing I will say: *don't be afraid to PM or coordinate things with folks from this forum.*  In my experience, the familiar faces in here commit and are very pleasant to ski, hike, hang out with.  Very open.  I skied with many AZer's this season and nobody stood me up (and if they did not come, there was polite advance notice).  In ski outings, communications have been excellent.  Bob R is the man...he's there rain or shine and so are many other folks.  In NYC I met with Beano and YardSaleDad.  Two guys I did not know real well, but great fun and very friendly....good rapport.  So if you want some friends, don't be afraid to PM.  This is not meant to be a shameless plug either!

In general, here is where I hike so folks who would like company or advice, feel free to PM Me:

*White Mountain 4000 Footers*
*Central and Northern Greens*
*NEK and Central Vermont Mountains*
*Ski Areas*
*Wapack and Monadnock Regions*
*Other NH Areas Beyond the Whites*
*Some experience with the 'Dacks*

:beer:


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## YardSaleDad (Jun 26, 2006)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> When I hike, I go solo and weather is the biggest factor...for safety, comfort, and to get the "just desserts" of my efforts.  Needless to say, this spring has been pathetic for hiking thanks to the Monsoon season.



I just hike regardless.  One of the most amazing sights I have ever seen was on a slushy, wet, misty February morning.  As I reached the 700 foot level on the Mount Taurus Washburn trail I rose above the temperature inversion.  A long billowy, cottony bed of clouds filled the Hudson Valley with the peaks of the Highlands poking above on both sides.Crisp bright blue sky was overhead and the winter sun lit up the ice on the trees like a million chandeliers.  The crime was that I did not have my camera with me.


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## andyzee (Jun 26, 2006)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> Oh ill likely accept the berry picking invitation only to be a "no show" ;-)
> 
> M


 
Hey, most likely 7/8, if they are ripe


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## riverc0il (Jun 26, 2006)

i absolutely let weather dictate my outtings. however, i am very upfront with people when planning group activities. i think when you plan activities, you have to expect people to bail for understandable reasons (weather sucks) and lame reasons (don't feel like it)... but if you are packing the night before and reviewing rain gear and preparing for wet weather, i think there is a safe assumption rain will not be an issue, and if it is, the partner should voice concern. but bottom line is you gotta expect a certain bail rate even when you have a commitment. it is a lot tougher when it is only two people and the trip might involve risky activity, but that is why i usually clarify i won't head out on tours if the weather looks nasty when planning a group outting.


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## Mike P. (Jun 27, 2006)

I can't say I hike with any other friends than hiking friends.  The other friemds would show for a hike or two & then the first humid, cold, rainy, snowy, etc.. or if a last minute invite came up toparty all night, I'd be left alone at the meeting spot, so now I plan solo & then, if company is okay, I'll post on a bulletin board or send an email to some friends I've meet hiking who I know are into it as much as me.

Do I let weather dictate if I hike, no way, I don't have that much free time & it's too hard to come by, besides on some good days I have to mow the lawn & my kids would rather go to the beach on a good day or the zoo, etc.

Do I let the weather decide where I hike?  You bet, if it's not wise to be above tree-line, i don't go there, I go some place else. 

(this is easy to decide when it's -30 & wind is at 100 MPH, it's harder to decide & find people to hike with who think the same way you do when it's marginal.  Each person's margin is a little different,  is zero degrees & a 40 MPH wind a bad February Day? It's a cold June day.  in Winter, some would say yes, some say no, if Garfield or Liberty is your destination, you'd be fine, if the wind is in your face, it would get old doing a Presi-traverse in that weather, even though it would not be life threatening to prepared winter hikers.)


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## bigbog (Jun 27, 2006)

*.........*



			
				SkiDog said:
			
		

> YOUR PLANS......(snipped).....What would any of you done???
> M


Chalk it up to experience *SkiDog*...it's..perhaps _THE_ most important decision to make....not _where_ to go, but _with whom_ to do it with!
A short trip with the right partner will be tons more fun than an epic trek with a _ho-hum_ type of partner..even if he/she goes.....IMO.  Having gathered the experience with the _ho-hums_ , you _really, really_ appreciate the true partners with similar pleasures...


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