# People Wearing Helmets Wrong



## xlr8r (Nov 24, 2013)

Skiing at Wachusett frequently, has led me to notice a lot of kids and teens (almost entirely snowboarders but I am not trying to be judgmental towards them) wearing their helmets wrong.  They all seem to wear a beanie hat underneath with the helmet brim resting well above their forehead.  Their goggles are therefore able to fit on their forehead below the helmet brim when they are not over their eyes.  

This to me seems to be completely wrong as the helmet is not properly positioned on their head because the whole thing is tilted back too far, and their forehead is unprotected.  But also by wearing a hat underneath shows to me that their helmets are too big to begin with.

Anyone else notice this or have a better knowledge of helmet use?


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## skiking4 (Nov 24, 2013)

lol


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## skiking4 (Nov 24, 2013)

welcome to "park crew 2013-14 style"


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 24, 2013)

Most of these kids remove the liner of the helmet to allow room for the hat.  But if they can rotate the thing backwards on their head it is likel to big.
Coming from the reps of 2 helmet manufactures, the helmets are not designed, nor tested to be worn like this.  Personally I have tried my helmet on at home with the beanie, and goggles under, and could not believe how uncomfortable it was.


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## gostan (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes, we see that all over the mountains.

To deal with the cold, I usually wear a very thin wind block neoprene stretch North Face beanie under my Smith Variant helmet.  Helmet fits properly & safely with no beanie showing.


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## Puck it (Nov 25, 2013)

You expect them to wear the helmet right when they can not wear their pants right.  Now that is funny.


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## Powderhound (Nov 25, 2013)

You mean pants hanging off your ass with your half boxers amd ass showing is not the proper way to wear your pants?  Hmmmm, maybe I should buy a belt?


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## Nick (Nov 25, 2013)

I've always had better luck just pulling my jacket hood over my helmet on cold days. Last year at Sugarloaf it was blowing hard at the top and it must have been close to 0. I was totally warm.


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2013)

Powderhound said:


> You mean pants hanging off your ass with your half boxers amd ass showing is not the proper way to wear your pants?  Hmmmm, maybe I should buy a belt?



Who can tell that their pants hang down too low when their cotton hoodies or cotton extra long tees are hanging to their knees?


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## witch hobble (Nov 25, 2013)

Get off my lawn!


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## witch hobble (Nov 25, 2013)

Seriously though, it is a silly manifestation of de facto compulsory helmet wearing.  These are kids who would prefer not to wear one but their moms or their sponsors make them....so it is subtle rebellion.


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## fbrissette (Nov 25, 2013)

puck it said:


> you expect them to wear the helmet right when they can not wear their pants right.



ftw !!!


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## Puck it (Nov 25, 2013)

Powderhound said:


> You mean pants hanging off your ass with your half boxers amd ass showing is not the proper way to wear your pants?  Hmmmm, maybe I should buy a belt?




Or you are a fat plumber!


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## C-Rex (Nov 25, 2013)

You can't fix stupid. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## dlague (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes we see that too, but then again we see people in the park without helmets!  For what it is worth at least they have one on!  Same as at a skateboard park where they do not fasten the chin strap or wear it loose!

It is what it is!


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## CoolMike (Nov 25, 2013)

My helmet isn't actually a helmet because it doesn't meet ISO/ANSI helmet standards.

It does meet the standards for a hard hat and it fits my large and strangely shaped head, so I figure it is better than nothing.

I always wear a thin skullcap style hat under my helmet to keep my brains warm.

Sometimes I push it back a little to cool down my forehead.  More often I wear it as designed.

As far as these whippersnappers with side-cocked helmets go let me just say this:  
Helmet worn correctly > helmet worn poorly >>>> not wearing a helmet.
When it comes to traumatic brain injury something is much better than nothing if you hit a rock, tree, other rider, or faceplant some ice.


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

witch hobble said:


> Get off my lawn!




Beat me to it...


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## The Sneak (Nov 25, 2013)

meh.
These are more or often than not people I wish weren't there anyway. Darwin works in mysterious ways...


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

The Sneak said:


> meh.
> These are more or often than not people I wish weren't there anyway. Darwin works in mysterious ways...



Welll..... Too F'ing bad... they are there to stay...  

Maybe they are waiting for you to die as well...   Probably not.. They probably don't even care that you exist... haha...

So 90's.... lame...


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## The Sneak (Nov 25, 2013)

I am heartbroken they don't care I exist, believe me.
I don't like *stupid* kids - a sentiment that transcends the '90s'. 'haha...'


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## spring_mountain_high (Nov 25, 2013)

The Sneak said:


> I am heartbroken they don't care I exist, believe me.
> I don't like *stupid* kids - a sentiment that transcends the '90s'. 'haha...'



the sneak vs dmc


(I love everything about this video)


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

The Sneak said:


> I am heartbroken they don't care I exist, believe me.
> I don't like *stupid* kids - a sentiment that transcends the '90s'. 'haha...'



What are you like 70?  

Why so down on the way people dress?  

Why do you think they are stupid? Because they are different from you?  Not crusty and old?  

Dude.. take the walker and retire...   really...


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

spring_mountain_high said:


> the sneak vs dmc



Waste my time on and old fu*k... never...  too much snow to ride on to waste time on an old fart that has nothing better to do than make fun of the way people dress...  Dude probably wears a fartbag(one piece)


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## The Sneak (Nov 25, 2013)

OMG! You are so in my face with your young generation irreverence!

Listen-
I don't know what set you off so much, but you should learn to be less butthurt over the internet.
I am hardly old or out of touch.

I have many things better to do than 'make fun of how someone dresses.' Must've struck a nerve, eh?

Go back and look at the first post in this thread. It specifically mentions Wachusett. I am a Wachusett passholder and am well familiar with a certain demographic of their customer base. Do you think I genuinely wish ill on these kids? Hardly. But if one is intentionally compromising the safety function of their gear for fashion's sake, and is into some of the riskier elements of the sport, one is taking a stupid chance.


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

haha....  who cares what people wear?  oh right.. you.. haha.. lame...


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## Puck it (Nov 25, 2013)

The Sneak said:


> OMG! You are so in my face with your young generation irreverence!
> 
> Listen-
> I don't know what set you off so much, but you should learn to be less butthurt over the internet.
> ...




Don't let him get to you.  This is his MO.  He is just a big lovable Ewok in real life!!!!


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

Greatest thing ever!!  Like he doesn't even exist...  

"*Puck it*
[h=2]This message is hidden because *Puck it* is on your ignore list.[/h]View Post
Remove user from ignore list"​


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## The Sneak (Nov 25, 2013)

You are doing an awesome job winning the internet. 
Let's hope you ski better than you reason.


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## Puck it (Nov 25, 2013)

The Sneak said:


> You are doing an awesome job winning the internet.
> Let's hope you ski better than you reason.




I wasn't even talking to dmc and he acknowledges me.  I am so pleased.


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

The Sneak said:


> Let's hope you ski better than you reason.[/QUOT
> 
> 
> haha... I found that funny...  And i don't really ski..


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

mmmmmm..... pure bliss....

""*Puck it*
*This message is hidden because Puck it is on your ignore list.*

View Post
Remove user from ignore list""


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2013)

dmc said:


> What are you like 70?
> 
> Why so down on the way people dress?
> 
> ...



I think anyone is stupid when they wear cotton and are not dressed for the weather just as I would think they are stupid skiing without a helmet or with sunglasses and a cowboy when it is -10.


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> I think anyone is stupid when they wear cotton and are not dressed for the weather just as I would think they are stupid skiing without a helmet or with sunglasses and a cowboy when it is -10.



No doubt..   Like people that insist on wearing piercings on sub zero days

But to say "_These are more or often than not people I wish weren't there anyway. Darwin works in mysterious ways.._."  is kind of lame to me...


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## billski (Nov 25, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk



Do you get a commission every time you post this byline?  :idea:


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## C-Rex (Nov 25, 2013)

billski said:


> Do you get a commission every time you post this byline?  :idea:



No it just pops up when I post from my phone. That would be nice though!

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## billski (Nov 25, 2013)

gostan said:


> To deal with the cold, I usually wear a very thin wind block neoprene stretch North Face beanie.



The thing we forget is that not everyone can afford to purchase such single-purpose gear.  And it's a lot more expensive than a knit hat.   I'll never forget my roots, when I too wore jeans, didn't have a hood that was big enough to fit over the helmet (check that, we had no helmets), bought half-day tickets and had to rent because there was no way I could afford the equipment.  

Full disclosure, I now own one of those neoprene things.


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## billski (Nov 25, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> No it just pops up when I post from my phone. That would be nice though!
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


  I'm sure it could be deleted.  Apple did that to their stuff and that's the first thing I nuked.


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## C-Rex (Nov 25, 2013)

billski said:


> I'm sure it could be deleted.  Apple did that to their stuff and that's the first thing I nuked.



If it bothers you so much I'll unchecked the box. Better?


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

billski said:


> The thing we forget is that not everyone can afford to purchase such single-purpose gear.  And it's a lot more expensive than a knit hat.   I'll never forget my roots, when I too wore jeans, didn't have a hood that was big enough to fit over the helmet (check that, we had no helmets), bought half-day tickets and had to rent because there was no way I could afford the equipment.
> 
> Full disclosure, I now own one of those neoprene things.



Well said...   If the OP saw me in what I used to wear... He's want me off his mountain..  haha


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## dlague (Nov 25, 2013)

I do not think this is a young person thing or a snowboarder thing - it is a park rat thing!  Park twin tippers and snowboarders alike!  personally, I could care less!  No helmet or helmet on wrong it is their head!

What offends me more than anything are the people who think they own the resort or others who think they have something to prove by skiing/snowboarding at high speeds and come with in inches of you.  Happened to my 11 year old this weekend!  If I thought I would not get wrecked - I probably would kick out my ski in front of them!


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## wa-loaf (Nov 25, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> If it bothers you so much I'll unchecked the box. Better?



I like it, makes quoting people easier. I always feel I need to delete the tapatalk spam. What are we talking about here?


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## billski (Nov 25, 2013)

dlague said:


> What offends me more than anything are the people who think they own the resort or others who think they have something to prove by skiing/snowboarding at high speeds



Nothing a little piano wire won't fix.


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## billski (Nov 25, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> If it bothers you so much I'll unchecked the box. Better?



I feel so much better!  This year's ski season will be so much better because of you gallant effort.  Thanks!


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 25, 2013)

dlague said:


> What offends me more than anything are the people who think they own the resort or others who think they have something to prove by skiing/snowboarding at high speeds and come with in inches of you.  Happened to my 11 year old this weekend!  If I thought I would not get wrecked - I probably would kick out my ski in front of them!





Why should those people have to ski a certain way for your kid? Does your kid own the mtn or have more rights to it than them?
What you see as out of control flying, others see as a basic warm up run.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 25, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> What you see as out of control flying, others see as a basic warm up run.



This really depends on what part of the mountain it's happening.


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 25, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> This really depends on what part of the mountain it's happening.



No it doesnt. Just because a person is sking at a rate that is out of control and wqy to fast for the onlooker does not mean that the other person is out of control. 

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## wa-loaf (Nov 25, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> No it doesnt. Just because a person is sking at a rate that is out of control and wqy to fast for the onlooker does not mean that the other person is out of control.



If they are doing this in a family or slow skiing area it certainly does. And a little respect for other people goes a long way. I like to ski really fast too, but if there are some little kids on the trail I either give them a wide berth or slow down. You may be in control, but you don't know what that beginner or kid is going to do when you buzz them. Show a little awareness of the other persons perspective. And I can certainly tell when someone is skiing fast under control or if they are on the edge.


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> No it doesnt. Just because a person is sking at a rate that is out of control and wqy to fast for the onlooker does not mean that the other person is out of control.



Forums making some sense today...


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> If they are doing this in a family or slow skiing area it certainly does. And a little respect for other people goes a long way. I like to ski really fast too, but if there are some little kids on the trail I either give them a wide berth or slow down. You may be in control, but you don't know what that beginner or kid is going to do when you buzz them. Show a little awareness of the other persons perspective. And I can certainly tell when someone is skiing fast under control or if they are on the edge.



One mans buzz is another mans pass..  
Perception is always an issue in these cases..


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 25, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> If they are doing this in a family or slow skiing area it certainly does. And a little respect for other people goes a long way. I like to ski really fast too, but if there are some little kids on the trail I either give them a wide berth or slow down. You may be in control, but you don't know what that beginner or kid is going to do when you buzz them. Show a little awareness of the other persons perspective. And I can certainly tell when someone is skiing fast under control or if they are on the edge.



I will say that I am the person skiing at a high speed on the mtn. I have NEVER hit or caused a person to crash though as I am in control, or I slow down to where I am safe for the conditions or how crowded a trail is. I have on several occasions been hit and knocked down by "slow skiers" as I am standing on the side of the trail or bottom of a run. So who is the inconsiderate and out of control one?

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## dmc (Nov 25, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I will say that I am the person skiing at a high speed on the mtn. I have NEVER hit or caused a person to crash though as I am in control, or I slow down to where I am safe for the conditions or how crowded a trail is. I have on several occasions been hit and knocked down by "slow skiers" as I am standing on the side of the trail or bottom of a run. So who is the inconsiderate and out of control one?



Sh*t happens..  all the time...  

But yeah.. I've only been hit a few times...  And most of them were people going slow and not being able to control themselves..

I teach people that have never skied to just chill..  Don't be afraid of people... they are all over..  And they don't want to hit you..  They are just having fun too...


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## steamboat1 (Nov 25, 2013)

What is this obsession with speed?


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 25, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> What is this obsession with speed?



Some people enjoy speed.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## wa-loaf (Nov 25, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I have on several occasions been hit and knocked down by "slow skiers" as I am standing on the side of the trail or bottom of a run.





dmc said:


> Sh*t happens..  all the time...
> 
> But yeah.. I've only been hit a few times...  And most of them were people going slow and not being able to control themselves..
> 
> I teach people that have never skied to just chill..  Don't be afraid of people... they are all over..  And they don't want to hit you..  They are just having fun too...



This is my point. We're the more experienced people out there so we should look out for other folks (the noobs, gapers, whatever). Have a good time and just because you know more or are more skilled doesn't mean you are cooler or deserve more respect than the gaper. We're all out there doing the same thing so have fun and don't bitch about people who wear their helmets funny or ski with little kids where you want to practice your GS turns.

If I see someone doing the turkey tuck down a black I might wince and be a little worried about their well being, but I was doing that at one point in time too. I see the same person doing that through the beginner area or slow zone and I might yell at them to slow down ...


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

Right - and as these people venture onto tougher terrain the pendulum starts to swing over to the better skier side...

i totally respect beginners - keep distance... all that...  On beginner trails or most likely a runout..

I may not give as wide of a berth on an advanced trail..  sorry...  Learning how to deal with and stay out of the way of people that are much better than you is part of learning to ski...


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## Tin (Nov 26, 2013)

Can't wear it wrong if you don't wear it.


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2013)

I look at it this way.

I feel pretty comfortable that I can control my OWN actions while on the slopes at all times, and ski in a way that I feel is prudent for the conditions in front of me at that moment.  What I *CAN'T* control is the actions of the others on the hill with me at that time, and that often can be a BIG variable!!

I will also admit that i've become more conservative about what is/isn't appropriate speed, etc not because I've gotten a few years older, but because of skiing with my kids! As a parent, if I'm skiing with either one or both my kids, they usually take the lead postion and i'm sweeping from behind (or maybe more appropriately put in some wide open, uncrowded situations, TRYING to keep up with them!  :lol: ), and when as a parent, you see someone fly by you, and are catching up to your kids at a rapid rate of speed, especially when you can see that both your kid and that person who just passed you are roughly heading for that same spot on the hill, your anxiety level goes up, and goes up quickly! When it's your kids that may be put in danger from someone who is likely unable to quickly control their speed or direction, especially in crowded or early season limited acreage situations, that has a profound ability to change one's personal views on what is or isn't "in control"


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 26, 2013)

drjeff said:


> I look at it this way.
> 
> I feel pretty comfortable that I can control my OWN actions while on the slopes at all times, and ski in a way that I feel is prudent for the conditions in front of me at that moment. What I *CAN'T* control is the actions of the others on the hill with me at that time, and that often can be a BIG variable!!
> 
> I will also admit that i've become more conservative about what is/isn't appropriate speed, etc not because I've gotten a few years older, but because of skiing with my kids! As a parent, if I'm skiing with either one or both my kids, they usually take the lead postion and i'm sweeping from behind (or maybe more appropriately put in some wide open, uncrowded situations, TRYING to keep up with them!  :lol: ), and when as a parent, you see someone fly by you, and are catching up to your kids at a rapid rate of speed, especially when you can see that both your kid and that person who just passed you are roughly heading for that same spot on the hill, your anxiety level goes up, and goes up quickly! When it's your kids that may be put in danger from someone who is likely unable to quickly control their speed or direction, especially in crowded or early season limited acreage situations, that has a profound ability to change one's personal views on what is or isn't "in control"



I agree completely. Nothing wrong with a little defensive skiing when necessary.


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## C-Rex (Nov 26, 2013)

I try to avoid buzzing people, and generally keep my distance.  The only time I'll buzz someone is if I need speed for a flat section and I have no choice but to cruise by them.  Sorry, but I'm not going to have to unstrap and skate because someone or some group slowed way down and blocked up the trail.  In that case I feel it's them that are being discourteous to me.  Riders don't have the luxury of poles to push themselves around.  That being said, when the situation allows and I can see traffic in the flat area, I'll stop at the top of the run in and wait for it to clear out.  But I can't wait all day, and you can be sure no one is going to do me the courtesy of letting me go by so sometimes I gotta be a jerk and just go.


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

"Buzzing" people is another subjective issue....   
Beginners and those that choose to protect them will shout the loudest..


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I try to avoid buzzing people, and generally keep my distance.  The only time I'll buzz someone is if I need speed for a flat section and I have no choice but to cruise by them.  Sorry, but I'm not going to have to unstrap and skate because someone or some group slowed way down and blocked up the trail.  In that case I feel it's them that are being discourteous to me.  Riders don't have the luxury of poles to push themselves around.  That being said, when the situation allows and I can see traffic in the flat area, I'll stop at the top of the run in and wait for it to clear out.  But I can't wait all day, and you can be sure no one is going to do me the courtesy of letting me go by so sometimes I gotta be a jerk and just go.





dmc said:


> "Buzzing" people is another subjective issue....
> Beginners and those that choose to protect them will shout the loudest..



Just remember, regardless of how rude or clueless or inconsiderate that group of people *IN FRONT* of you may be, if you're over taking them, it's *YOUR* job to both stay out of their way and also be ready for them to make a sudden change in their direction as you're approaching them. They have the right of way.

If it's a busy spot on the hill, then maybe some walking or skating at those busy times IS the proper call for all parties on the hill.  Is it perfect, nope.  But it sure beats the increased potential of a collision :idea:


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## C-Rex (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm just saying, if I pass someone kinda close at speed, that is when it happens. I'm always prepared to stop or use evasive maneuvers, especially if its kids. But if people get mad at me because I went by kinda close and fast in that situation, too bad.  Leave some room if you don't want people doing that. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

Do they have the total right of way?  
Can they just change direction on a crowded slope and not be at fault?
If they come in from my side - whose fault is it?

I get it - I've only hit someone ONCE..  And he came in from my side...  Even ski patrol said there's was nothing I could do while he whined like a baby about the "downhill skier"...  Allow me to highlight as you did... 

*EVERYONE* needs to pay attention...


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> Do they have the total right of way?
> Can they just change direction on a crowded slope and not be at fault?
> If they come in from my side - whose fault is it?
> 
> ...



Agree 110%

All that i'm trying to say, is that whatever logic one is using to justify their speed and/or closeness of passing someone, if the unfortunate happens and a collision occurs, would the logic the person doing the passing used, potentially hold up in court in front of a judge/jury?  If the answer is "no" then, maybe the person looking to do the passing might want to rethink the "importance" of trying to make that pass, at close range in the 1st place.

By no means am I saying that passing should never occur on the slopes! But I think that we all know that the situations that we're thinking of tend to involve either crowded intersections or crowded, flatter terrain or even when you have a group stopped near, but not at the side of a trail and one choose to ski/ride between than stopped person/group and the side of the trail, those type of situations. The type of scenarios where we may already be thinking about slowing down and/or trying to take a path that brings you further away from that downhill person(s) that are in the general way of the line that you'd ideally want to take.

No different than when you're driving a car and you see a TIGHT opening to merge into traffic and you have the "choice" to either try and squeeze in and likely cut someone off or you could wait a bit for a larger opening that likely wouldn't affect anyone else....

Plenty of folks on AZ are incredibly passionate about our downhill snow sliding! And as such we almost become ambassadors of it. If we can't set a "good" example, then maybe we should rethink things a bit


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

Beginners think they need more space than needed - until they get over that they need to stay on beginner trails... 

Beginners on advance trails need to understand that things will get tight and need to learn to not freak out....

Intermediates are even worse and feel more entitled...


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## steamboat1 (Nov 26, 2013)




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## Nick (Nov 26, 2013)

We all know you are awesome :lol:


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## Glenn (Nov 26, 2013)

Tin said:


> Can't wear it wrong if you don't wear it.



I wear hats that have ear flaps. :lol:


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Why should those people have to ski a certain way for your kid? Does your kid own the mtn or have more rights to it than them?
> What you see as out of control flying, others see as a basic warm up run.



My kids are really good snowboarders and skiers and we do not exactly put along, but buzzing people at high speed is flat out dangerous.  It the person they are passing makes one wrong move then bad shit can happen!  The reason I brought up this point iun the first place was we were at Killington this past weekend and some adult sized a*#hole decided use my wife as a gate then proceeded to cut my son off (thankfully he was able to react).  I was pissed because there was absolutely no need for it.  Lower Skylark is wide enough besides my family this guy was the only one around.  It is just plain stupid!

Frankly - I find a lot of chest pounders on this forum that think they are the hottest sh*t on skis or a snowboard.  I ski fast and used to race but I do not have to buzz people as a warm up run!



> Why should those people have to ski a certain way for your kid?


  Douche bag statement!

If it makes you feel more manly go for it!  It is not necessary!  Apparently you do not know the code of conduct!


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> If they are doing this in a family or slow skiing area it certainly does. And a little respect for other people goes a long way. I like to ski really fast too, but if there are some little kids on the trail I either give them a wide berth or slow down. You may be in control, but you don't know what that beginner or kid is going to do when you buzz them. Show a little awareness of the other persons perspective. And I can certainly tell when someone is skiing fast under control or if they are on the edge.



+1 Respect goes to you!


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

dlague said:


> Douche bag statement!
> If it makes you feel more manly go for it!  It is not necessary!  Apparently you do not know the code of conduct!



Typical - entitled - ski parent...  

Teach your kid to buck up!!  People ski fast - it's a fact... deal with it..


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I will say that I am the person skiing at a high speed on the mtn. I have NEVER hit or caused a person to crash though as I am in control, or I slow down to where I am safe for the conditions or how crowded a trail is. I have on several occasions been hit and knocked down by "slow skiers" as I am standing on the side of the trail or bottom of a run. So who is the inconsiderate and out of control one?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



This is not what I am talking about!  You automatically think due to my statements that we are beginners we are a far cry from that.  We all like to ski fast like the next guy and it is fun to be a spectator watching a really good skier or snowboarder as well!  We ski 30+ times per year, we see a lot of stupid stuff and we see a lot of really cool stuff too!  It is the people that do not respect others that suck!


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> Typical - entitled - ski parent...
> 
> Teach your kid to buck up!!  People ski fast - it's a fact... deal with it..



So do my kids!  Two were on ski teams, one is a ski instructor and my youngest can rip it up with the best!  THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BUZZ PEOPLE - GET IT?

The quality of the posters here has really increased since ski season started!  You do not have to get bullshit because you think I am talking about you - I am not - so don't get offended!


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Just remember, regardless of how rude or clueless or inconsiderate that group of people *IN FRONT* of you may be, if you're over taking them, it's *YOUR* job to both stay out of their way and also be ready for them to make a sudden change in their direction as you're approaching them. They have the right of way.
> 
> If it's a busy spot on the hill, then maybe some walking or skating at those busy times IS the proper call for all parties on the hill.  Is it perfect, nope.  But it sure beats the increased potential of a collision :idea:



+1


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

dlague said:


> So do my kids!  Two were on ski teams, one is a ski instructor and my youngest can rip it up with the best!  THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BUZZ PEOPLE - GET IT?



I get it.. 

Your kids can do no wrong because they are awesome and never do anything wrong...


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

dlague said:


> The quality of the posters here has really increased since ski season started!



Not the quality of posts though...  Hearing all the lame stuff I hear every fall..  
Set your watch to it...


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> I get it..
> 
> Your kids can do no wrong because they are awesome and never do anything wrong...



You have an f'n problem!  Do you come on here to start hugely negative debates?   I think you forgot NA NA NA NA NA!


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

dlague said:


> You haqve a f'n problem!



So they are not awesome?  

you're tough to please...


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## steamboat1 (Nov 26, 2013)

This is why I don't ski Hunter anymore. The mountain is filled with DMC's


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## wa-loaf (Nov 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> I get it..
> 
> Your kids can do no wrong because they are awesome and never do anything wrong...





dlague said:


> You have an f'n problem!  Do you come on here to start hugely negative debates?   I think you forgot NA NA NA NA NA!



I think he's just busting your balls. Everyone seems to need to qualify their statements by showing how experienced they/their kids or whatever are. It's the other people ... bla bla bla. I did the same thing in my comment; mentioning how I like to ski fast, etc...


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## deadheadskier (Nov 26, 2013)

we can have a normal respectful conversation with differing opinions

.......or we can keep heading down the path of personal attacks and lock the thread.  

your choice folks


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## wa-loaf (Nov 26, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> we can have a normal respectful conversation with differing opinions
> 
> .......or we can keep heading down the path of personal attacks and lock the thread.
> 
> your choice folks



It's going to rain 3 inches tomorrow. Let people vent ...


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> This is why I don't ski Hunter anymore. The mountain is filled with DMC's



Very classy comeback... thank you but now - I must hide your posts going forward..  buh bye...


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> It's going to rain 3 inches tomorrow. Let people vent ...



Hoping it's snow on the front and rear of the storm.. And ice in the middle..


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> we can have a normal respectful conversation with differing opinions
> 
> .......or we can keep heading down the path of personal attacks and lock the thread.
> 
> your choice folks



Thank you!


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

dlague said:


> Thank you!



Yes - nobody should say another persons statement is a 





> Douche bag statement!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 26, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> It's going to rain 3 inches tomorrow. Let people vent ...



interesting angle

moderating on a rain curve.  maybe after 6" of rain during winter we'll consider a politics day on the forums :lol:


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> interesting angle
> 
> moderating on a rain curve.  maybe after 6" of rain during winter we'll consider a politics day on the forums :lol:



If we get 6" I'm heading to high ground...


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2013)

The really apparent thing it seems is that there's a side here, myself included, that is speaking from the perspective of not just a skier/boarder with experience, but also that of a parent of skiers/boarders.  And then there's a side without kids in this debate.

When you view what regularly happens on a hill, and the lack of consideration be it either from just not knowing the "rules of the road" or just not caring what others think, especially when you put your kids into the mix, your view of what is and isn't acceptable, and how it impacts others changes.  

It's more about realizing that your actions can and do affect others, rather than it being all about one's self.  If one is fine with skiing/riding either too close for anothers comfort or at a speed in an area that others deem too fast, then be aware that a bunch of people are likely too take issue with your actions.


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

I agree with most of that..   But my point is - it's perception.   And expert will see things differently than a beginner..  
So an expert should NEVER go fast on a beginner trail or a run out..   But that's not to say a beginner will still think they are going too fast or getting too close...  

And I don't normally yell at families for taking up half a trail... Or stopping to take pictures... or any of that... Or race clinics for clogging trails or taking over lines..  It's all good.. haha..


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## witch hobble (Nov 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> Beginners and those that choose to protect them will shout the loudest..



Lets gnaw on this morsel for a bit.......are you attacking the newbie, inexperienced and vulnerable, and those that shepherd and provide guidance and context for them?  Or revelling in flipping them off as they attempt to castigate you?


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## Cheese (Nov 26, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> we can have a normal respectful conversation with differing opinions
> 
> .......or we can keep heading down the path of personal attacks and lock the thread.
> 
> your choice folks



Ima buzz you while you're reading the skiers code on the back of your ticket.


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## tree_skier (Nov 26, 2013)

So after reading through this I want to make sure I've gotten the correct direction of this thread.

The park rat that has his helmet way to far back on his head has just gotten tangle up with his pants down around his knees and fallen off of a feature, landing on top of his head and driven said helmet edge down onto his head thus giving him a concussion.  He then struggles to get up due to the pants now being further down his legs but fortunately his butt is not too cold because his sweatshirt is also down to his knees.  Making it back upright the park rat then proceeds down the trail seeing two ankle biters (really only one but with his freshly acquired concussion sees 2) making wedge turns in front of him tries to go between the 2 that he sees.  He manages to just miss the perfect angel he passes with his very oversize clothing flapping like he's doing 100 but in reality is not going that fast.

Now the parent of the perfect angel is in a uproar and the park rat is wondering how he got to the mountain and why the old dude is yelling at him


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## buellski (Nov 26, 2013)

tree_skier said:


> So after reading through this I want to make sure I've gotten the correct direction of this thread.
> 
> The park rat that has his helmet way to far back on his head has just gotten tangle up with his pants down around his knees and fallen off of a feature, landing on top of his head and driven said helmet edge down onto his head thus giving him a concussion.  He then struggles to get up due to the pants now being further down his legs but fortunately his butt is not too cold because his sweatshirt is also down to his knees.  Making it back upright the park rat then proceeds down the trail seeing two ankle biters (really only one but with his freshly acquired concussion sees 2) making wedge turns in front of him tries to go between the 2 that he sees.  He manages to just miss the perfect angel he passes with his very oversize clothing flapping like he's doing 100 but in reality is not going that fast.
> 
> Now the parent of the perfect angel is in a uproar and the park rat is wondering how he got to the mountain and why the old dude is yelling at him


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

witch hobble said:


> Lets gnaw on this morsel for a bit.......are you attacking the newbie, inexperienced and vulnerable, and those that shepherd and provide guidance and context for them?  Or revelling in flipping them off as they attempt to castigate you?



I'm sorry you took that as an attack...

It was just an opinion based upon experience... No more..  No less..


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## witch hobble (Nov 26, 2013)

You don't have to be sorry.  I'm just trying to understand the context of your observation. But if you have a large enough sampling of data on the subject of what type of skier/rider is most objectionably vocal when you buzz them then your actions probably deserve some scrutiny.  And my interpretation of your statement was that you were devaluing their grievance or discomfort based on their ability.

I will not impugn your snowboard or hunter mountain, just your humanity


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## deadheadskier (Nov 26, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Ima buzz you while you're reading the skiers code on the back of your ticket.



just don't knock over my beer and we're all good


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 26, 2013)

drjeff said:


> The really apparent thing it seems is that there's a side here, myself included, that is speaking from the perspective of not just a skier/boarder with experience, but also that of a parent of skiers/boarders.  And then there's a side without kids in this debate.
> 
> When you view what regularly happens on a hill, and the lack of consideration be it either from just not knowing the "rules of the road" or just not caring what others think, especially when you put your kids into the mix, your view of what is and isn't acceptable, and how it impacts others changes.
> 
> It's more about realizing that your actions can and do affect others, rather than it being all about one's self.  If one is fine with skiing/riding either too close for anothers comfort or at a speed in an area that others deem too fast, then be aware that a bunch of people are likely too take issue with your actions.



Great points. I hate the sense of entitlement that some people think they have. Forget about kids......why should any skier have to worry about being hit by another person from behind? Takes some freaking responsibility! Find a trail that no one is on and ski it as fast you want. But if there is someone skiing below you than you need to be able to react to anything. It really annoys me to see people on this board who have this sense of entitlement. 


Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## dmc (Nov 26, 2013)

witch hobble said:


> You don't have to be sorry.  I'm just trying to understand the context of your observation. But if you have a large enough sampling of data on the subject of what type of skier/rider is most objectionably vocal when you buzz them then your actions probably deserve some scrutiny.  And my interpretation of your statement was that you were devaluing their grievance or discomfort based on their ability.
> 
> I will not impugn your snowboard or hunter mountain, just your humanity




My observation(_no sampling data to support this_) is that...  
People with kids and adult beginners/intermediates tend to be more vocal about people they perceive as passing too close or going too fast... 

They either haven't developed the sense of what is actually dangerous, feel stupid because they are constantly being passed and are obviously in the way *or *they are protecting their children...   Which I totally understand...


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## deadheadskier (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm trying to recall the last time I saw anyone (other than ski patrol or mountain ambassadors) yelling at others for how they're skiing/riding.  Maybe I don't run into often because I rarely ski on Saturdays and I tend to gravitate towards lower traffic areas on the mountain.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> And I don't normally yell at families for taking up half a trail... Or stopping to take pictures... or any of that.


That's refreshing.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 26, 2013)

tree_skier said:


> So after reading through this I want to make sure I've gotten the correct direction of this thread.
> 
> The park rat that has his helmet way to far back on his head has just gotten tangle up with his pants down around his knees and fallen off of a feature, landing on top of his head and driven said helmet edge down onto his head thus giving him a concussion.  He then struggles to get up due to the pants now being further down his legs but fortunately his butt is not too cold because his sweatshirt is also down to his knees.  Making it back upright the park rat then proceeds down the trail seeing two ankle biters (really only one but with his freshly acquired concussion sees 2) making wedge turns in front of him tries to go between the 2 that he sees.  He manages to just miss the perfect angel he passes with his very oversize clothing flapping like he's doing 100 but in reality is not going that fast.
> 
> Now the parent of the perfect angel is in a uproar and the park rat is wondering how he got to the mountain and why the old dude is yelling at him



Post of the month.


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## Watatic Skier (Nov 26, 2013)

Quite a few helmets come with removable liners just for this purpose


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 26, 2013)

Watatic Skier said:


> Quite a few helmets come with removable liners just for this purpose



The liner is removable to wash it. A beanie is not designed to fit properly in a helmet.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## Cannonball (Nov 26, 2013)

I guess my only question is, where is all of this drama happening?!?!?   In my typical ski day I don't come across wrong-helmet-wearers, people 'buzzing' beginners, people wearing hard hats (was that one for real?), skiers punching snowboarders, snowboarders whipping their shirts off to fight, people proud that they don't "normally" yell at families, on and on....   Does this stuff really happen?


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 26, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm trying to recall the last time I saw anyone (other than ski patrol or mountain ambassadors) yelling at others for how they're skiing/riding.  Maybe I don't run into often because I rarely ski on Saturdays and I tend to gravitate towards lower traffic areas on the mountain.



It's all about where you ski. You would rarely see this crap go on at Wildcat and other mtns with similar vibes. Spend a Saturday at Hunter and you will understand. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Bene288 (Nov 26, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> It's all about where you ski. You would rarely see this crap go on at Wildcat and other mtns with similar vibes. Spend a Saturday at Hunter and you will understand.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app



Exactly this. I rarely see this stuff at Gore and Magic and similar vibe areas. Definitely more of an occurrence at 'family' geared resorts. Not to bash, but Mount Snow comes directly to mind for me. Also more of a weekend problem.


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## 〽❄❅ (Nov 26, 2013)

billski said:


> The thing we forget is that not everyone can afford to purchase such single-purpose gear.  And it's a lot more expensive than a knit hat.   I'll never forget my roots, when I too wore jeans, didn't have a hood that was big enough to fit over the helmet (check that, we had no helmets), bought half-day tickets and had to rent because there was no way I could afford the equipment.
> 
> Full disclosure, I now own one of those neoprene things.


Yep, i skied in blue jeans too as a teenager, with gators, and they sucked! Always had nice quality ski parkas since they were seen as something i could wear for everyday use but back then even they ended up soaked in a storm, not even close to the affordable goretex substitutes of late.


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## Smellytele (Nov 26, 2013)

〽❄❅;800970 said:
			
		

> Yep, i skied in blue jeans too as a teenager, with gators, and they sucked! Always had nice quality ski parkas since they were seen as something i could wear for everyday use but back then even they ended up soaked in a storm, not even close to the affordable goretex substitutes of late.



When I started skiing, I skied in jeans and a leather jacket. :-o


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## witch hobble (Nov 26, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> When I started skiing, I skied in jeans and a leather jacket. :-o



Mad steezy, yo!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 27, 2013)

Not the helmet but goggles. My uncle who skis once or twice a year puts goggles on his neck when in the lodge , I shown him how to put it on his helmet but he forgets, he is a funny guy.


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## C-Rex (Nov 27, 2013)

〽❄❅;800970 said:
			
		

> the affordable goretex substitutes of late.



Ummm...are you just well-off enough to consider goretex stuff "affordable" or do you have a source that I don't know about?


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 27, 2013)

Bene288 said:


> Exactly this. I rarely see this stuff at Gore and Magic and similar vibe areas. Definitely more of an occurrence at 'family' geared resorts. Not to bash, but Mount Snow comes directly to mind for me. Also more of a weekend problem.



It has a lot to do with Terrain layout, too. Hunter, Killington, Mt. Snow, Okemo, etc. all have trails that funnel together into a giant clusterfuck. Gore has a couple of spots like that (Sunway right near where the double chair lets out, Arena at the bottom of the park, headwaters at the bottom of Rumor and Hawkeye), but most of the mountain is laid out so it directs people away from other people into little pods. Smugg's is nice too because it really separates the family area from the ripping area. 

There was a time when mountains started widening and interconnecting all of their trails to promote "accessibility" and connect different mountain areas (Sunday River is especially guilty of this). All that did was create more cattle paths for slow moving sub-intermediates - usually tourists who don't know the mountain well. It'd be nice to have narrow trails that are separate from the hordes of assholes on buffeted parkways, but I guess that's what areas like Castlerock are for.


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## Bene288 (Nov 27, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> It has a lot to do with Terrain layout, too. Hunter, Killington, Mt. Snow, Okemo, etc. all have trails that funnel together into a giant clusterfuck. Gore has a couple of spots like that (Sunway right near where the double chair lets out, Arena at the bottom of the park, headwaters at the bottom of Rumor and Hawkeye), but most of the mountain is laid out so it directs people away from other people into little pods. Smugg's is nice too because it really separates the family area from the ripping area.
> 
> There was a time when mountains started widening and interconnecting all of their trails to promote "accessibility" and connect different mountain areas (Sunday River is especially guilty of this). All that did was create more cattle paths for slow moving sub-intermediates - usually tourists who don't know the mountain well. It'd be nice to have narrow trails that are separate from the hordes of assholes on buffeted parkways, but I guess that's what areas like Castlerock are for.



Good point. Killington is real bad like that at the spot where Great Northern, Mouse Trap and Chutte intersect. It's an absolute bowling alley on the weekends.


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## Watatic Skier (Nov 27, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> The liner is removable to wash it. A beanie is not designed to fit properly in a helmet.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



This is just a single example , quite a few park helmets are designed to be able to be worn with beanies underneath

http://www.giro.com/us_en/snow/mens/snow-helmets/shivtm-2.html


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## wa-loaf (Nov 27, 2013)

Watatic Skier said:


> This is just a single example , quite a few park helmets are designed to be able to be worn with beanies underneath
> 
> http://www.giro.com/us_en/snow/mens/snow-helmets/shivtm-2.html




You know Hawkshot manages a ski shop right?


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## C-Rex (Nov 27, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> You know Hawkshot manages a ski shop right?



What does that matter?  Read the description.  I think he proved his point right there.  I've been to plenty of shops where the employees don't know jack about what they're selling.  Not saying Hawkshot is one of them, just sayin...


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## Mullen (Nov 27, 2013)

http://www.backcountry.com/k2-rival...ferralID=80440803-5780-11e3-9f1f-001b2166becc

Here is another that goes over the beanie.  I've seen a bunch of others as well.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 27, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> What does that matter?  Read the description.  I think he proved his point right there.  I've been to plenty of shops where the employees don't know jack about what they're selling.  Not saying Hawkshot is one of them, just sayin...



Eh, didn't read the thread closely.


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## Watatic Skier (Nov 27, 2013)

Helmet liners for the most part are just thin pieces of cloth or netting, and really won't do much to add to a helmets protective abilities aside from comfort.  

That being said, it's quite easy to not wear them correctly without the liner.  As long as you make sure that the helmet fits correctly on whatever your using to replace the liner, it should still work.  People who wear there helmets like this usually bring in a beanie with them when they buy the helmet to make sure it fits right.


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## 〽❄❅ (Nov 27, 2013)

〽❄❅;800970 said:
			
		

> Yep, i skied in blue jeans too as a teenager, with gators, and they sucked! Always had nice quality ski parkas since they were seen as something i could wear for everyday use but back then even they ended up soaked in a storm, not even close to the affordable goretex substitutes of late.





C-Rex said:


> Ummm...are you just well-off enough to consider goretex stuff "affordable" or do you have a source that I don't know about?


And don't i wish. 
Was referring to stuff like HyVent which could be considered a substitute compared to ski clothing fabrics back in the day. 

As to a source. Last season i got a TNF Enzo three layer goretex shell at Nordstorms Rack on clearance for $150 from their initial reduced price of $230. At the time i had a choice there between the Enzo or a TNF Free Thinker jacket for the same price, the Enzo fit better. 
My local Nordstorm Rack currently has a few Outdoor Research $475msrp three layer goretex pro Mentor Jackets for $220.
Unfortunately those deals are hit or miss. 
There was a thread reporting TjMaxx finds, i don't think anyone resurrected it this season.


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 27, 2013)

Watatic Skier said:


> This is just a single example , quite a few park helmets are designed to be able to be worn with beanies underneath
> 
> http://www.giro.com/us_en/snow/mens/snow-helmets/shivtm-2.html



Yes there are a few models that take the beanie wearing into thought. But there are way more that do not. Many of the helmets I see are ones that are not desined like the "shiv". A beanie just changes the way it sits on your head, and if the helmet is able to slide back on your head so you can raise your goggles it is way to big and will not fit you properly or protect you properly in a crash. 
I am done debating this.
Thanks Waloaf, I do like to think I have knowledge on lots of product in the industry as this is my life. I read about as much as I can, go to many demo days and talk to as many people in the companies as possible. But that does not mean anyone knows all.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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