# Do you own or rent?



## Joshua B (Feb 13, 2004)

Just curious as to how happy people are with their current situation and the area where they live.

I will answer first. I rented for 3 1/2 years. Now I'm in the process of buying my first place. It's a townhouse in Hudson, MA. Some people call it a mill town that's seen better days. Some say it's improving and is actually a desirable place to buy.

Is this discussion inappropriate because it's too personal? If so, we don't have to continue. I'm just trying to generate some discussion that I'm personally interested in.


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## Stephen (Feb 13, 2004)

My best friend (and his wife and infant) bought a house too big for them and invited us to live with them rent-free, so we can pay off debt and build up a down payment on our own house.

We're on track to buy next spring.

-T


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## Greg (Feb 13, 2004)

Joshua B said:
			
		

> Is this discussion inappropriate because it's too personal? If so, we don't have to continue. I'm just trying to generate some discussion that I'm personally interested in.


I suppose people will respond if they want. We'll be in our house two years next spring. the8re - must be nice for your buddy to have a house that's too big. If we have another kid, we'll either need to upgrade or expand...


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## ChileMass (Feb 13, 2004)

3 years fixing up one antique house (circa 1860) and then 10 more years fixing up the current antique (circa 1840).  Always something that needs to be fixed in an old house, but it's really a labor of love......


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## Greg (Feb 13, 2004)

ChileMass said:
			
		

> but it's really a labor of love......


I hear ya, CM. And I thought our house was old, built 1931. There's something about old homes though...


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## SilentCal (Feb 13, 2004)

We have a fix-er upper too built in 1936.  While it always seems like something needs fixing,  I fully agree with the Labor of love comment.   Over the last year I've stripped and reshingled the roof,  installed new gutters,  and built a new shed.    Home Depot is really getting to know me....


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## skijay (Feb 13, 2004)

I wish I had some "home owner" skills.  I am a contractor's best friend.  I have had the best luck with selecting  contractors  with  the exception of the one who did my pool.


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## severine (Feb 14, 2004)

I didn't answer the poll because of my unique situation.  We owned our multi-family house for 2 years, but sold it back in December after deciding landlording just wasn't for us (on top of the nice gains in market values in those two years that allowed us to sell for a nice profit).  Right now we're actually renting back the same apartment we lived in while we owned the house until we decide where we want to move next.... I keep saying we won't buy again in the state of Connecticut, but I don't know how feasible it would be for us to pick up everything we own and move out of state.  Especially with the way the job market is right now...


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## teachski (Feb 14, 2004)

The home I own was the home of my parents.  I purchased it after they passed away.  It is a real MONEY pit!  In addition to the work that has been done and needs to be done in the house, there is a fairly large yard to maintain.  Due to my allergy to fresh cut grass I have to get a lawn boy for the summer.  In the winter I get a plow because I have to leave by 6am and frequently don't get home early enough to shovel before it sets up to a cement consistency.

Other than things that were really necessary, I have yet to complete the remodeling aspect of things.  The room I am sitting in right now has paneling, what a throwback!  Although the house has wall to wall carpeting, most of it was installed in the late 70's and needs to be removed.  I started to do that in a room at the end of last summer and found that there is an unfinished floor under it.  I put that project off till this summer.  I also plan to prep the paneling so that I can paint it.  

My dad was a half-assed do-it-yourselfer so in the master bedroom the closet is made of stained, rough cut lumber and there is a shelfing unit that has to come down.  My dad was also paranoid about people looking into the house so the windows, with the exception of the picture window in the living room and those in the back bedrooms, are the small(18"x36") camp type crank out windows.  I have my work cut out for me. :roll:


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## Max (Feb 14, 2004)

I owned my first house for 17 years, it was built in the 1920's and needed so many repairs it could have been a candidate for a TV fix-er-up show.  We had our current house built in 1994 and it has freed me from the drudgery of extensive home repairs, leaving time for more worthwhile pursuits like hiking and motorcycling!


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## MichaelJ (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm a renter. I'd like to buy, but what I want for a house, I can't afford on my own. Additionally, being a homeowner would mean that I would have to spend too many weekends working on the house instead of being up hiking!


I'm thinking about a condo for a few years, so that I can have ownership with limited responsibilities (at least for outdoor care).


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## smitty77 (Feb 17, 2004)

Rented for two years and bought our first house in June, 2001.  Nice little fixer-upper built in 1948.  Completely removated the bathroom (down to the studs) and the kitchen, refinished the wood floors, and stripped the wallpaper everywhere and painted the rooms.  Home Depot loved to see us coming.  We were on first name basis with many of the associates. 

Not long after I finished the kitchen I convinced the wife to put the house on the market (much to her dismay), and we found a builder clearing a lot for a cape about fifteen miles down the road.  We had our home under agreement in 3 days (yes, 3) and moved into our new house in December 2003.  We love the place!   8) 

Although I like the handyman stuff, I hate working under pressure such as when I have the toilet in pieces and everyone needs to pee.  Max can vouch for this.  Our house was 1 mile from his, and we used his facilities for about 3 weeks while I gutted our one and only bathroom.  Despite the problems (everytime you start one project, you end up taking on 3 more in the process) it was a valuable experience.

Smitty


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## skican (Feb 18, 2004)

I own a duplex in Forge Village/Westford, MA. It was built in 1903 and was for the mill workers in the neighborhood. I/we renovated the side we live in and rent the other half. Rental pays half of my mortgage. I just refinanced my house and it's worth 100k more than I paid for it! It's nice, on the water, but very small. We are putting it on the market Monday to move to Maine. Just 30 miles south of the Loaf. 30 acres! With a private pond! I want to do organized llama hikes. Has anyone encountered llamas during their hikes? It's very popular out west, but does not seem to have caught on here as much.

Llama Hikes with Erin & Jasmine, coming soon to Maine. Well, it will probably take me about 2 years to get this thing off the ground. How fun does that sound? Llama carries all the stuff and we get to enjoy the scenery and make some money?


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## Skier75 (Feb 18, 2004)

UK and I are renting as a tempo


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## Skier75 (Feb 18, 2004)

Whoops...did't mean to send that post like that. Anyways, we sold our house and are renting for now, till we can build our home when we thaw out. Can't wait....don't like renting, been there done that and want to be done with it again.


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## jlangdale (Feb 19, 2004)

Actually, I own w/mortgage and rent that out while I rent in ski country.


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## Joshua B (May 10, 2004)

I need to change my vote to "Own with a mortgage."


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## pepsi (May 10, 2004)

Congratulations


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## Joshua B (May 10, 2004)

Thank you.


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## MtnMagic (May 10, 2004)

Can't believe I can not add to the poll, wish I could. (whats happening here?!) I bought 20 years ago and paid my mortgage off in just 5 years.  It gives me the opportunity to hike several times a week.
__________________
Sweet!


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## Greg (May 10, 2004)

Joshua B said:
			
		

> I need to change my vote to "Own with a mortgage."


Congrats. How about you elborate? There's nothing quite like home ownership!


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 16, 2008)

bump


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 16, 2008)

Bought a 100 year old Dutch Colonial 39 years ago, paid it off , fixed it up and enjoy it today !


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## Terry (Aug 16, 2008)

We will own our house by Dec if all goes well. The mortgage goes untill Feb but we want to finish it off this year! That will be a great feeling. It needs a lot of work still but at least it will be ours. "It" is an 1810 center chimney post and beam cape with exposed beams, wide pine floors,old wavy glass in some of the windows still, and an antique wood cookstove in the kitchen. Right now I am in the middle of a laundry room project that I started 18 years ago and never finished it. I restarted it this summer and I have it wired, plumbed, sheetrocked, and almost all mudded. Then comes paint and the tile floor and it will be done.


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## Moe Ghoul (Aug 16, 2008)

Small dutch colonial circa 1936 in Northwest area of Philly we bought in 1992 seller financed. Did most of the cosmetic work myself, roofing and central air was done by pros. Sits on about an acre and I have an adjacent building plot. We bought 3 acres of hillside land about 6 years ago in the next county about 4 miles from where we live with the intent of building a house. After much deliberation we decided against it due to what we perceived as pretty outrageous costs at the time and it was probably one of the best decisions we made in hindsight. We paid off the house 7 years ago. My wife and I are anti-debt, and decided if we needed a tax deduction, charity was a better way to go than giving the bank the money. It's meant living in a smaller home, but with no kids and no mortgage, the trade off is worth it for us. Internet stocks paid for the 3 acres  I just have taxes to pay on it. We'll sit on it until we need the money, move or decide to build there.


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## mondeo (Aug 17, 2008)

Renting, will be moving into the condo my roomate just bought at the end of the month. It'll probably be about a year until I buy my own house.


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## wa-loaf (Aug 17, 2008)

Own a 1925 2- family. It's a lot of work, but we have good renters. The dad is a contractor and takes care of any problems with the apt on his own. Checks with me first if it's gonna cost me money.


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## MR. evil (Aug 17, 2008)

We own our house (with a mortgage). We have been here going on 6 years this September. We actually bought the house before we were married. We knew we would be getting married, but we felt that putting a down payment on a house was more important that getting an engagement ring. We were  lucky enough to buy a house we can grow into in a very nice neighborhood, in a very nice town right before the real estate boom. Glad we decided to get the house first. 1/2 of our house is pretty much empty, we have 2 bedrooms that we don't use and the orginal living room is also empty. A couple of years before we bough the place they put on a large great room addtion that is open to the kitchen. Owning a home is great, but it is alot of work. We are still fixing the place up and eventually plan on doing a small addition to turn our bedroom into a master suite.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 17, 2008)

The polls says I voted, but I'm not sure when.  Must've been for renting though.

The fiance and I purchased with mortgage a very tiny condo in June.  We just moved here and had considered renting, but the numbers worked on this particular, so we'll live a very tight and thrifty lifestyle in our little place for a year or two, move on to something bigger and rent the current place out.


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## mattchuck2 (Aug 18, 2008)

Own

1960 Raised Ranch in Halfmoon, NY.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 18, 2008)

I think I'm going to rent for about 3-4 more years before I buy a house.  The thought of owning a home on a single income seems tough and I'd have to make sacrifices in order to do that...but if I meet a special someone then we can combine incomes and have a really steezy house.  If I took $15,000 out of savings and she(GSS's future lady) took $15,000 out of savings..that could be a nice 10% down payment on a $300,000 house.


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## o3jeff (Aug 18, 2008)

You should try to put 20% down so you don't have to pay PMI on the loan.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> You should try to put 20% down so you don't have to pay PMI on the loan.



true, but PMI is tax deductable; at least until 2010 I believe


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## o3jeff (Aug 18, 2008)

I bought a house on a single income. I figured I didn't need anything special for a house being by myself so  I bought a 1000 sqft ranch which has more than enough space for one person.

I just couldn't see myself spend $800-1000 a month anymore on rent when I could get a mortgage for the high end of that and build some equity.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 18, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> You should try to put 20% down so you don't have to pay PMI on the loan.



What does PMI mean???  Right now my sister and her husband are talking with bank people about how much they can potentially borrow based on income and savings and apparently they can borrow $450,000 but they're in Washington DC which would be a one bedroom condo...20% of that is $90,000..sheesh..:-o


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 18, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> I bought a house on a single income. I figured I didn't need anything special for a house being by myself so  I bought a 1000 sqft ranch which has more than enough space for one person.
> 
> I just couldn't see myself spend $800-1000 a month anymore on rent when I could get a mortgage for the high end of that and build some equity.



true true..it's the maintenence issues that make me nervous..ideally a condo would be nice but then there's the association fees which total a couple grand a year and taxes which total another couple grand.  My goal for the next few years is to try to live a little cheaper and save more for a future home..I can't see myself being like some of my neighbors who live in an apartment for 30 years..


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## o3jeff (Aug 18, 2008)

It's insurance on the loan that protects the lender if you default on it


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 18, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> It's insurance on the loan that protects the lender if you default on it



O.K. thanks..


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## ccskier (Aug 18, 2008)

Own home, well bank acutally does.  1979 Gambrel w/ two car garage.  Put a lot of money and sweat equity into 1st house.  Taking time on improvements these days.  Outdoor shower is on the agenda for the fall.


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## mondeo (Aug 18, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> It's insurance on the loan that protects the lender if you default on it



And it's a decent hit. The number I remember is around 3% - so $6K for a $200K house. It's enough to keep me renting for another year or so.

And it's probably increasing, given the current situation.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 18, 2008)

mondeo said:


> And it's a decent hit. The number I remember is around 3% - so $6K for a $200K house. It's enough to keep me renting for another year or so.
> 
> And it's probably increasing, given the current situation.



Is that built into the mortgage or upfront money???


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## ccskier (Aug 18, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Is that built into the mortgage or upfront money???



You can have it built in to the payment.  I had it for 1 year on my first house, absolutely waste of money that the mortgage co makes you pay.  I refinanced after the 1st year and got below the 80% mark.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 19, 2008)

mondeo said:


> And it's a decent hit. The number I remember is around 3% - so $6K for a $200K house. It's enough to keep me renting for another year or so.
> 
> And it's probably increasing, given the current situation.



unless you have horrid credit, that number is way high.  It's more like .5% most of the time or about a grand on a 200K home.  That translates to $83 per month.  As I said earlier though, PMI is essentially recognized by the feds as added interest on the loan and is deductible.  If you think the market has bottomed where you live and you can afford to buy now, I would.  Interest rates are pretty decent right now.


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## o3jeff (Aug 19, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> If you think the market has bottomed where you live and you can afford to buy now, I would.  Interest rates are pretty decent right now.



Market is ok here and and that being said, there is quite a few multi families in town that are priced really well that I have been kicking around the idea of picking one up and become a slumlord.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 19, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> Market is ok here and and that being said, there is quite a few multi families in town that are priced really well that I have been kicking around the idea of picking one up and become a slumlord.



That's our plan; to become slumlords :lol:.  We'll live in the small condo we bought for about two years and upgrade to something bigger at which point we'll rent out this place.  Our plan is to buy a townhouse that will suit are needs for another few years and then buy a house and rent out the townhouse.  Both places won't really generate income until they are paid off, but they will pay for themselves.  If the market goes on a rapid upswing again, we'll sell and net a tidy profit.


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## severine (Aug 19, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> Market is ok here and and that being said, there is quite a few multi families in town that are priced really well that I have been kicking around the idea of picking one up and become a slumlord.


Ask Brian sometime about being a landlord.  We did it for 2 years before returning to renting.



deadheadskier said:


> unless you have horrid credit, that number is way high.  It's more like .5% most of the time or about a grand on a 200K home.  That translates to $83 per month.  As I said earlier though, PMI is essentially recognized by the feds as added interest on the loan and is deductible.  If you think the market has bottomed where you live and you can afford to buy now, I would.  Interest rates are pretty decent right now.


IIRC, that sounds about right.  I think we paid 0.5% or so when we owned our multi-family house.  And yes, it was built into the monthly payments.  We actually had 2 payments; our regular mortgage, and the CHFA pmt which was the first-time homebuyers program in CT.  Helped us bridge the gap in our finances to buy that house for a really low rate.

Not looking to own again until I'm done with school and have a decent job.  Projections would put that at 4 or 5 years from now.  I'm okay with that.  Every time something breaks in the house, I'm so glad we're not the ones having to fix it.


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## o3jeff (Aug 19, 2008)

My original plan before I bought my house was to get a three family and live on one floor and rent the other two out. I scrapped that idea since I really hate having people living that close to me and with my luck I would probably end up with a GSS living in one of them and when I go sit in the yard he would come talk my ear off.


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## severine (Aug 19, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> My original plan before I bought my house was to get a three family and live on one floor and rent the other two out. I scrapped that idea since I really hate having people living that close to me and with my luck I would probably end up with a GSS living in one of them and when I go sit in the yard he would come talk my ear off.


:lol:  Yup, that's about what it's like owner-occupying a 3-family.  Of course, I never planned on continuing to occupy the same 3-family.  

If you're seriously considering it, check out the publications online about Connecticut's Landlord-Tenant laws.  Most are in favor of the tenant.  And if you don't follow the letter of the law, you can lose a lot of money.  It also can be quite difficult and expensive to evict if it becomes necessary (luckily, we never had to).  There's a great website out there, too, for landlords that's a forum like this.  I don't recall the name of the site but I bet you could find it by googling.  Great way to meet with other minds and figure it all out.

If you get good tenants, it's a cakewalk.  BUT the laws are very specific on selecting your tenants and you have to apply the same criteria to everyone - you can't just go with whomever you "like" best.  Though you do have more legal leeway if you owner-occupy.

At times like these, you may find a lot of displaced former-property owners looking for rentals.  That's good and bad, depending on their circumstances.  When we were rental property owners, we had a hard time finding qualified renters because interest rates were decent and the market was low, so all the good people were buying instead.

Be extremely thorough in your background and credit checks.  It can make a huge difference.  And like I said, same criteria for everyone.  Otherwise, you can get sued.

A former colleague was also a landlord and got out because he was sick of getting sued.  He was a good guy, not a slumlord.  But people can sue you whether it's warranted or not, and generally speaking, many landlords get sued at some time or another.  Even if you didn't do anything wrong, it's still money lost.

Pluses and negatives... you have to weigh them.


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## o3jeff (Aug 19, 2008)

I am very early in thinking this whole thing out, but would seriously look seeing if I would be able to start a company(LLC?) and do this under it. I still have a ton of research to do before I do anything.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 19, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> unless you have horrid credit, that number is way high.  It's more like .5% most of the time or about a grand on a 200K home.  That translates to $83 per month.  As I said earlier though, PMI is essentially recognized by the feds as added interest on the loan and is deductible.  If you think the market has bottomed where you live and you can afford to buy now, I would.  Interest rates are pretty decent right now.



It's a grand on a 200k home annually??  This is all new to me..I've never even seen this on the online mortgage calculators..

FWIW..For What It's Worth..I need to get renters insurance for my new apartment..it's going to be less than 10 dollars a month..


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## Marc (Aug 19, 2008)

My house owns me.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 19, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> My original plan before I bought my house was to get a three family and live on one floor and rent the other two out. I scrapped that idea since I really hate having people living that close to me and with my luck I would probably end up with a GSS living in one of them and when I go sit in the yard he would come talk my ear off.



Ahahahahaha..there are alot worse tenants than me..it seems like all the elderly people from my building who moved into assisted living/died the past few years have been replaced by less desirable people who bump Spanish music till past midnight...


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## deadheadskier (Aug 19, 2008)

Online mortgage calculators can be pretty deceptive.  The generally paint a rosier picture than what is reality.  

yes the grand is on the 200K annually.


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## mattchuck2 (Aug 19, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> unless you have horrid credit, that number is way high.  It's more like .5% most of the time or about a grand on a 200K home.  That translates to $83 per month.  As I said earlier though, PMI is essentially recognized by the feds as added interest on the loan and is deductible.  If you think the market has bottomed where you live and you can afford to buy now, I would.  Interest rates are pretty decent right now.



That's exactly what I pay a month for PMI.

And, unfortunately, due to a stupid rule change, Mortgages taken out before 2007 don't get that deduction for PMI.  I bought my house in 2006.

So I still have another year or so of PMI (unless I finish the basement and get my house reappraised).


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## Dr Skimeister (Aug 19, 2008)

I own an old farm house in semi-rural, NW NJ. The original part of the house was built in the 1880's, and has been added onto twice. Original stone foundation still intact (knocking on wood). In the basement, the original log beams are still in place, reinforced now by steel beams. House sits on 1 1/2 acre surrounded by 65 acre of state-owned "protected" land.


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## Marc (Aug 19, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> I own an old farm house in semi-rural, NW NJ. The original part of the house was built in the 1880's, and has been added onto twice. Original stone foundation still intact (knocking on wood). In the basement, the original log beams are still in place, reinforced now by steel beams. House sits on 1 1/2 acre surrounded by 65 acre of state-owned "protected" land.



Don't sweat it Doc.  The stone foundation under the old part of my house is as strong as the day it was built, which predates yours by about 120 years.  Just gotta keep em dry in the summer and tight in the winter.


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## powderman (Aug 19, 2008)

accidentally voted for mortgage paid off

Can a mod change my vote to own with a mortgage?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 19, 2008)

powderman said:


> accidentally voted for mortgage paid off
> 
> Can a mod change my vote to own with a mortgage?



Sorry as a future mod on here....I vote no..:uzi:


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## ski9 (Aug 20, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Sorry as a future mod on here....I vote no..:uzi:



I can't believe you haven't been made a mod, yet? What's up with Good Greg and his ridiculously high standards? 

BOT....we have a small shore house on LBI that was built and handed down from my wife's grandfather and moved into our vacation home in the Northern Poconos when my youngest was born. Neither has a mortgage and we were never tempted to dip into the equity because we were so relieved to be out from under a huge (for us) mortgage on a house in Central Jersey. 

Our Jersey mortgage was $2200/mo...taxes were $600/mo...PMI was $55/mo...insurance was $100/mo...with utilities and all the other basics, we had to come up with almost $50k a year just for overhead.

Never again.

Our biggest expense these days are season passes...as it should be.


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