# Hunter's Mt Status and Snow reports



## RichT (Dec 15, 2020)

Would be nice to know which trails they are making snow on huh?


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## kingslug (Dec 15, 2020)

Live Cam Hunter Mountain - Mid Station View, Hunter, New York - United States
					

Live webcam located in the beautiful mountaintop region of the Northern Catskills.




					www.iplivecams.com
				












						Mountain Cams | Hunter Mountain Resort
					






					www.huntermtn.com
				




best we can do for now...probably whatever they have already open..maybe 1 on the North side. I'll bet they are hoping for the storm to put down a good base all over then they can add to it. What will suck is if the timing of the storm allows them to groom the holy hell out of it. Hopefully it continues hard into Thursday. I'm bringing the BIG Bazookas just in case.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 16, 2020)

One trail on North. At least thats what I've seen from my house...


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## kingslug (Dec 16, 2020)

Overlook is good..big whales..fast..


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 17, 2020)

Easily 2' of fluff down and still dumping


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## RichT (Dec 17, 2020)

Oh look! The base cam is working today, boy am glad they were able to "fix" it


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 17, 2020)




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## abc (Dec 17, 2020)

RichT said:


> Oh look! The base cam is working today, boy am glad they were able to "fix" it


Nope. Not working no more!

What's that direct link for that same web cam some one posted earlier?


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## Jersey Skier (Dec 17, 2020)

abc said:


> Nope. Not working no more!
> 
> What's that direct link for that same web cam some one posted earlier?








						Live Cam Hunter Mountain - Mid Station View, Hunter, New York - United States
					

Live webcam located in the beautiful mountaintop region of the Northern Catskills.




					www.iplivecams.com
				




Maybe it's the camera angle, but does not look like much social distancing.


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## da-bum (Dec 17, 2020)

Jersey Skier said:


> Maybe it's the camera angle, but does not look like much social distancing.


Maybe the guy swinging his pole telling everyone to stay out of the reach of his pole is not around today.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 17, 2020)

Jersey Skier said:


> Live Cam Hunter Mountain - Mid Station View, Hunter, New York - United States
> 
> 
> Live webcam located in the beautiful mountaintop region of the Northern Catskills.
> ...


I heard it was a sh!t show on a lot of levels.  If we all don't do the right thing - the ski areas will close.   
Questioning if I'm heading out tomorrow for sloppy seconds - I may cancel my reservation.


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## kingslug (Dec 17, 2020)

here ya go..from today


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## andrec10 (Dec 17, 2020)

Was there no snowmaking going at all? WTF...


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## kingslug (Dec 18, 2020)

They made snow wednesday. Nothing running during the storm day, but I don't know what was going on at night. 
The only thing that concerns me is running enough lifts. I get it if lifties could not make it there. Running F lift would have solved the shitshow a bit. Thankfully the guy showed up for North side..But that did not solve the 6 pack mob. Overlook is not an easy run. I imagine a lot of people did it once and had enough. I stayed back there a while..plenty to do.


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## kingslug (Dec 18, 2020)

webcam shows guns going and not too crowded..for a sold out day.


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## drjeff (Dec 18, 2020)

kingslug said:


> webcam shows guns going and not too crowded..for a sold out day.



That's going to be the interesting question this season, what capacity constitutes a "sell out" point at the resort that day? 

If you've got a midweek day, where they're staffing to run a reduced number of lifts, but potentially most, if not all of the terrain that's 1 number. 

If you're staffing to run all the lifts, covering the same amount of terrain, that's an entirely different number.

And I doubt we'll publicly hear what those daily max numbers are either...


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## kingslug (Dec 18, 2020)

Look at Hunters webcam..not crowded at all. But this is just another thing that is not in our control. But clearly Vails statement about We think we will be able to accommodate everyone is clearly not the case. Yesterday North side had no waiting, while front side while busy was about a 10 to 12 minute wait. 
WF, Bell, Hunter, Gore, Wyndham, Plattekill...all sold out the whole weekend.


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## andrec10 (Dec 18, 2020)

kingslug said:


> webcam shows guns going and not too crowded..for a sold out day.


I was there today. The lift lines were reminiscent of the 80's before the high speed quad.


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## catskillman (Dec 18, 2020)

obviously, they do not refresh real time.  I was there today, and it was an ss at the highest level I have seen.  All lifts 15+ minutes.  I gave up at 11 and when I left there was at least 50 people in line for tickets.  No D lift, 1/4 not wearing masks, and at 8:30 am the traffic was at a standstill from past the cumberland farms.


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## kingslug (Dec 18, 2020)

Wow


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## abc (Dec 18, 2020)

Well, I feel I made the right decision canceling all my reservation (up to Sunday, which I booked when I first saw the on-coming storm). 

Went xc skiing at Minnewaska. Spectacular day with a "crowd" of may be 30 people I ran across the entire afternoon (yes, 30 would be a "crowd" for a mid-week day). I think I'll stick with that till the madness subsides a bit. 

In the mean time, almost all cross country ski gear had sold out from most shops! (like bikes in the spring).


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## ScottySkis (Dec 18, 2020)

abc said:


> Well, I feel I made the right decision canceling all my reservation (up to Sunday, which I booked when I first saw the on-coming storm).
> 
> Went xc skiing at Minnewaska. Spectacular day with a "crowd" of may be 30 people I ran across the entire afternoon (yes, 30 would be a "crowd" for a mid-week day). I think I'll stick with that till the madness subsides a bit.
> 
> In the mean time, almost all cross country ski gear had sold out from most shops! (like bikes in the spring).


U could check out other hills that are less crowded like Catamount


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## abc (Dec 19, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> U could check out other hills that are less crowded like Catamount


That's a thought.  

But I like xc skiing just as much. Now that most xc centers is open, I'll ski it till the snow is gone. It's really rare to have a big dump like that down here in the flatland. I'm going to milk it as much as I can. 

The mountains will have snow a lot longer than the flat land. Having missed the actual powder the day after the dump, I'm now far less motivated to chase the remaining snow.


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## crank (Dec 19, 2020)

abc said:


> That's a thought.
> 
> But I like xc skiing just as much. Now that most xc centers is open, I'll ski it till the snow is gone. It's really rare to have a big dump like that down here in the flatland. I'm going to milk it as much as I can.
> 
> The mountains will have snow a lot longer than the flat land. Having missed the actual powder the day after the dump, I'm now far less motivated to chase the remaining snow.


We went xc ing at Fahnestock yesterday.  Trails were mostly packed and smoothed.  It was actually closed but the road in was open and the parking lot plowed.  There were maybe 4 cars in the lot.  Groomers were out and saw us.  Didn't seem to mind that we were out poaching.  Awesome day!  Perfect xc snow and temps.  I just replaced my 30-year ole 3 pins with some brand new skis and boots.  Yesterday was their first outing.  Much better glide and so much more confidence and control going downhill!


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2020)

Check the incoming weather..its why I get it while its good.


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2020)

looking at their cam again..barely a line...
oh well...


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## jg17 (Dec 19, 2020)

It was plenty packed this morning, waited about 30 minutes for the Flyer around 11am. D and B also had sizeable lines in the morning. F lift was a disaster, one giant crowd with zero attempt at even separating lines and zero mask enforcement. Bailed around 12:15 after Overlook became dangerously crowded with folks who didn't belong on the dust on crust. As I left, the line for the Flyer was shorter since everyone was at lunch, but the outdoor seating area was absolutely packed and there still was a steady stream of people just arriving for the day.

I was expecting a mess, but today was bad even by Hunter standards. Truly Epic.


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2020)

Wow..guess the cams just don't show it well enough..glad ( well not really) I'm not skiing this weekend. Not that I didn't try. But I underestimated the storm and its impact on reservations all over NY.


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## MidnightJester (Dec 19, 2020)

This year the storms will bring out the storm seekers Covid or not. Add in weekends at tmes where the kids are more off from school and you have the recipe for packed mountains and locked out parking and tickets to bow to to Govt overreach.


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## So Inclined (Dec 19, 2020)

abc said:


> In the mean time, almost all cross country ski gear had sold out from most shops! (like bikes in the spring).



I was interested in hitting Fahnestock's trails Thursday or Friday so gave their Twitter a look - they said no rentals this year due to Covid. Not sure if other places are proceeding the same way, but it may help explain why x-country gear is getting thin on the shelves.


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## abc (Dec 19, 2020)

Not really. It's just people are buying outdoor equipment left and right. 

I had some stuff that needs "re-newing". Gloves for example. Can't find stock in most places.


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2020)

Skiing used to be a way of getting away from it all...nit so much now..more like diving...into it all.


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## da-bum (Dec 19, 2020)

Is the coming week (specifically the weekdays) considered a week where people go on holiday and go skiing in Hunter?  I have the Epic Northeast weekday pass and next week is not a blackout week, implying it will not be a week where vacationers will be flooding the resort.  But I don't want to come up and end up in a place where there are long lines and crowding all over the place.  I looked at a few places to stay and they are completely booked out, which is a bad sign.  I usually don't go anywhere near the ski resorts around this time since around this is roughly the time I would have came back from a warm weather vac, but this year, I went early in oct, and also, I am lingering at home this couple of weeks having to burn up my vac days.  I would have headed to VT, but that quarantine requirement threw everything off


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## ss20 (Dec 19, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Skiing used to be a way of getting away from it all...nit so much now..more like diving...into it all.



Agreed.  Well-hyped midweek powder days and the following weekend are just stupid busy.  So much more so than just a few years ago.  I really like the "sleeper" days of 4"-6" on top of a solid base.  Add a "1" in front of those numbers and what would be a busy day becomes sheer insanity.  

I remember a powder day at Stratton after 2 feet I think the last year of the MAX pass (RIP).  I'm walking to the hill and a pretty nice luxury car is flying up the access road with a flat tire, full steam ahead.  Maybe he had run-flats but still zero f's given gotta shred hahaha.


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## RichT (Dec 20, 2020)

It's less (lift lines wise) this weekend then it was last Thursday Friday. They didn't have as much open or lifts as they do now.


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## abc (Dec 20, 2020)

da-bum said:


> Is the coming week (specifically the weekdays) considered a week where people go on holiday and go skiing in Hunter?  I have the Epic Northeast weekday pass and next week is not a blackout week, implying it will not be a week where vacationers will be flooding the resort.  But I don't want to come up and end up in a place where there are long lines and crowding all over the place.  I looked at a few places to stay and they are completely booked out, which is a bad sign.  I usually don't go anywhere near the ski resorts around this time since around this is roughly the time I would have came back from a warm weather vac, but this year, I went early in oct, and also, I am lingering at home this couple of weeks having to burn up my vac days.  I would have headed to VT, but that quarantine requirement threw everything off


Traditionally? No. People would have been too busy shopping for Christmas gifts. 

But this year? Who knows. Consider this: people aren't getting together (as much). So there will only be half (or less) of the boxes under the tree. The rest would be mail ordered. So people maybe free to go skiing. 

Third consideration, like you, a lot of white collar folks have vacation days to burn. Many are just taking them off to do "nothing". Then all of a sudden, snow storm! What do you think folks will do? 

As for the booked up places though, that may have more to do with a lot of places closing down or "rotating" rooms. I know the lodges I normally go to are doing that. So there's less availability across the board.


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## kingslug (Dec 20, 2020)

Snagged an opening at Hunter this morning..Got there at 11:00...had a damn good day. Lines were manageable..Lots of moguls to bounce around on. Glad I went...oh and it snowed all afternoon.


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## da-bum (Dec 20, 2020)

abc said:


> Traditionally? No. People would have been too busy shopping for Christmas gifts.
> 
> But this year? Who knows. Consider this: people aren't getting together (as much). So there will only be half (or less) of the boxes under the tree. The rest would be mail ordered. So people maybe free to go skiing.
> 
> ...



With not much places to go in the middle of the year, it seemed pointless to take a day off since it is not much different from a light wfh day.  Wanted to do a 5 days or so on the passholder only days, but Hunter closed prematurely, thus never got to use vac days on them.

Some places seem to rotate rooms if possible, but not sure about the smaller places.  Anyway, in prior years, I just do day trips before the holidays due to the extremely limited number of trails open, so I never knew whether they were fully booked around this time.

Since many places' rooms are unavailable on monday night, decided to shorten trip from 3 to 2 days, staying over tues night.  Some weather site's forecast calls for foggy day on monday, which could mean nothing or skiing in the clouds.


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## kingslug (Dec 21, 2020)

If at Hunter check out the Sunview motel...


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## da-bum (Dec 21, 2020)

I was browsing booking.com and Sunview sold out by saturday.  I presumed all these sites queries each hotel's site, but apparently not because last night, I inquired tripadvisor and it showed Sunview available through other travel sites except booking.com.  I didn't think anybody bulk buy rooms on such a small place like Sunview.

Anyway, Hunter is fully booked M/Tu/Wed (somehow, Mon became available again).  And looking at the webcam, I see sunny sky instead of fog.  Some weather prediction.


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## kingslug (Dec 21, 2020)

This will be the season of frustration..on many levels.


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## abc (Dec 21, 2020)

da-bum said:


> Anyway, Hunter is fully booked M/Tu/Wed (somehow, Mon became available again).


I was wondering about that and thought about booking Wednesday last night. But then I decided I'm not going if it's "full capacity" given the report of clusterf* so far.

Cross country skiing is still very good in the Hudson Valley. I'm a happy camper so far. I'll wait till the holiday frenzy is over. We'll see what other clusterf* Vail can manufacture next.

I also have the option to run up to Mt Snow which hasn't been full. But I'm not sure how the lift line situation is like up there. In any case, I'm not going before Thursday. And my pass is blackout till Jan 1.


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## kingslug (Dec 22, 2020)

I'll be skiing in the rain Thursday..for a little while..better than the glacier that is coming after...


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## abc (Dec 22, 2020)

kingslug said:


> I'll be skiing in the rain Thursday..for a little while..better than the glacier that is coming after...


Good plan. 

Wish I live closer. Not worth driving 1 1/2 hr each way for a couple hours to ski in drizzle/light rain. But would definitely ski if I'm already nearby.


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## kingslug (Dec 22, 2020)

I'm 2 hours away..which is better than the 3 I used to live when in Long Island. But if I stick my nose out at 6am and its pouring..I'm sticking my nose back in bed.
oh look..its snowing there now....this work thing has...to...go...


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## kingslug (Dec 23, 2020)

https://www.accuweather.com/en/severe-weather/christmas-eve-day-storm-to-unleash-flooding-rain-wind-in-east/871683
		

Awesome


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## kingslug (Dec 23, 2020)

Just canceled Friday..reading all the reports and it looks like a big one is going to make a huge mess. Forget about skiing..flooding and power outages are going to be the concern.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 23, 2020)

total Sh!tshow...  MErry Christmas..


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## kingslug (Dec 23, 2020)

Stay safe...


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 23, 2020)

This happened to a friend...  


Dear Valued Pass Holder,
Over the last three weeks, you have missed or canceled two or more of your pass reservations each week.
Unfortunately, since you have missed or canceled multiple week-of reservations (or multiple Priority Reservation Days booked within two weeks of the reservation date), for the next three weeks you are only able to make week-of reservations one day prior to your ski or ride day. Rest assured that you are still able to make reservations – based on availability and your pass type – but your ability to make advance week-of reservations has been restricted.
Our goal is to accommodate everyone who wants to ski and ride at our mountains this season. To ensure all skiers and riders have the opportunity to experience our mountains, we ask that you please only make reservations for days that you are able to ski or ride in the future.
We appreciate your understanding – this season we’re all in this together!


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## kingslug (Dec 23, 2020)

for the next 3 weeks..holy shit..that is fucked. With the weather the way it is..this is what you get..and good luck with day before reservations. Might as well take up knitting.


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## Creakyknees (Dec 23, 2020)

Funky_Catskills said:


> This happened to a friend...
> 
> 
> Dear Valued Pass Holder,
> ...


I got the same email and I only cancelled one day. I made the reservation on Monday for Thursday and cancelled it on Wednesday night at 9:30pm. The cancelation was for two people.
A few hours later I got an apology email from Vail (Epic) the email I received should have been a warning email so if it happens again I will get a 3 week suspension. This is what happens when you have people making decision who do not know anything about skiing, skiing is all about the weather.


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## abc (Dec 23, 2020)

Creakyknees said:


> I got the same email and I only cancelled one day. I made the reservation on Monday for Thursday and cancelled it on Wednesday night at 9:30pm. The cancelation was for two people.
> A few hours later I got an apology email from Vail (Epic) the email I received should have been a warning email so if it happens again I will get a 3 week suspension. This is what happens when you have people making decision who do not know anything about skiing, skiing is all about the weather.


I cancelled 3 of my bookings. No email. And I'm still able to make reservation. 

Go figure.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

Found this on another forum:



Notice the mentioning of specifically, "multiple *WEEKS*". 

Seems it isn't how many times you cancel, it's now many WEEKS you've done it. (or no show, again, not much point in cancelling, as it's counted against you just like no-shows).


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2020)

Would love to know the algorithm for the cancelation email. I have canceled a large number of days but missed none. The cancelations are toggling between wildcat/attitash or sunapee/crotched based on terrain or family's schedule for the day. It would appear capacity is a factor, there are no sellouts in NH that I can see. I go out of my way to make sure I am scanned everyday, this would appear to be good policy.


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> Found this on another forum:
> 
> View attachment 49808
> 
> ...



Like I said earlier in this thread...it is about patterns. Cancelling multiple times in 1 week isn't a pattern of abuse. Cancelling multiple times in multiple consecutive weeks is...

As for not much point in cancelling...there's still the whole "allowing a fellow skier to use that spot" point.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

thebigo said:


> It would appear capacity is a factor, there are no sellouts in NH that I can see. I go out of my way to make sure I am scanned everyday, this would appear to be good policy.


All my cancellation are on sold out days. No warning email yet. 

I specifically don't want to ski on sold out days, after reports of complete break down of social distancing on the life line. 

I'm somewhat regretting buying a pass given that reality. So I haven't used my pass even a single day yet. I'm now waiting till terrains are fulling open in the hope of more spread out crowds. 

If they want to punish me for cancelling, I will demand a full refund. They've changed specific of the pass contract after my purchase. But so far, they haven't said anything about my cancellation. 



> I have canceled a large number of days but missed none. The cancelations are toggling between wildcat/attitash or sunapee/crotched based on terrain or family's schedule for the day.


I wouldn't be surprised the "algorithm" gets confused when you cancel and rebook again, at a different mountain,.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> As for not much point in cancelling...there's still the whole "allowing a fellow skier to use that spot" point.


Yes, the good karma thing. 

Unless, you end up in the Vail "waiting room" for unknown amount of time... Karma isn't worth it!


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> If they want to punish me for cancelling, I will demand a full refund. They've changed specific of the pass contract after my purchase. But so far, they haven't said anything about my cancellation.


You might want to re-read the Epic terms and conditions before you try to argue that point...

Clarifying a point that was in there about abuse is not "changing" the contract. I'll give you a couple quick highlights of the T&C that you agreed to by purchasing the pass.



> *EPIC Coverage*. The EPIC Coverage Refund Policy (“*EPIC Coverage*”) is Vail Resorts’ refund policy for all Season Passes. *All Season Passes are NON-REFUNDABLE except as set forth in these Terms. *


So right off the bat, you can only get a refund under a very limited explicit set of criteria.



> *Reservation System. *Vail Resorts’ reservation system for the 2020/2021 season will be made available on or prior to November 6, 2020 on epicpass.com through the “My Account” section of your profile. Vail Resorts has the right, in its sole and absolute discretion, to modify or cease its reservation system at any time and for any reason, and you will not be entitled to a refund in connection with such changes.


So essentially you agreed to allow Vail to make whatever changes they want to the reservation system and can't get a refund if you don't like them...


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## andrec10 (Dec 24, 2020)

VAIL=FAIL!


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> So essentially you agreed to allow Vail to make whatever changes they want to the reservation system and can't get a refund if you don't like them...


Any contract that's "unfair" is not enforceable.

So wording such as "sole and absolute discretion" rarely hold up in court. (the amount is small enough to "fit" into Small Claim court. Vail, I'm sure, will send one of their high price lawyer to contest the challenge!  )


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

I've had 6 consecutive days of glorious cross country skiing out of this last storm! No reservation, no crowd, $10 or free

Why did I even bother with Vail's clusterf*ck???


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> Any contract that's "unfair" is not enforceable.
> 
> So wording such as "sole and absolute discretion" rarely hold up in court. (the amount is small enough to "fit" into Small Claim court. Vail, I'm sure, will send one of their high price lawyer to contest the challenge!  )



Here's a similar clause from their terms of sale that doesn't use the wording you have issues with...



> *Reservation Policy.* Vail Resorts’ reservation policy for the 2020/2021 season is available at epicpass.com. You acknowledge and agree to be bound by this reservation policy and any future changes to that policy.



Restricting reservation privileges for abuse was listed as part of the reservation policy from day 1 of the reservation policy being announced. Just because you think you should be able to cancel as many days as you want without it being considered abuse doesn't make that reality.

Now that we've had a sneak preview of what they're targeting, I think it sounds pretty fair. Someone who has cancelled or missed 2 reservations a week for 3 consecutive weeks means they have cancelled a minimum of nearly 30% of their reservations 3 weeks in a row (that's assuming they made the maximum of 7 reservations a week...if they made less reservations, then their cancellation/miss percentage is even higher at 33% for 6 reservations a week, 40% for 5 reservations a week, 50% for 4, 67% for 3, or 100% for 2). Seems completely reasonable to target that repetitive behavior.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

Check your calculation again!

There’re 20 plus weeks in a season!

Let’s say they miss 2 out of 6 days, 3 weeks out of 6. That’s 16%.

3 weeks out of 12, that’s 8%. That’s abuse?


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> Check your calculation again!
> 
> There’re 20 plus weeks in a season!
> 
> ...


No, there's nothing wrong with my math. They're specifically looking at what you are doing in a 3 week period. They're not waiting the full 20+ weeks to calculate this (obviously it would be too late for them to take action by that point). The math is valid for that 3 week period. A consistent 30%+ cancellation rate sustained over 3 weeks is excessive and unfair to people that actually DO want to ski.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> They're specifically looking at what you are doing in a 3 week period.


What "3 week period"?

I don't see any mentioning of that in the Vail's policy.


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> What "3 week period"?
> 
> I don't see any mentioning of that in the Vail's policy.



Did you not read the e-mail that was posted here that some people received (apparently accidentally because Vail is incompetent and was supposed to send warnings first instead of the penalty e-mail...but that's another story)?

Here's the very beginning of it:


> Dear Valued Pass Holder,
> Over the last three weeks, you have missed or canceled two or more of your pass reservations each week.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Did you not read the e-mail that was posted here that some people received (apparently accidentally because Vail is incompetent and was supposed to send warnings first instead of the penalty e-mail...but that's another story)?


Except in the "apology email", it was replaced by "multiple weeks"!

So, if the original email was NOT what Vail meant, why should any of its detail be view with such faith?

It's clear Vail is being *deliberately vague. *Yet people are defending that kind of behavior using their own individual interpretation, with rosy lens no less.


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## Jersey Skier (Dec 24, 2020)

I've cancelled all 3 of my reservations the past 3 weeks. One a week. Haven't heard a thing.


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> Except in the "apology email", it was replaced by "multiple weeks"!
> 
> So, if the original email was NOT what Vail meant, why should any of its detail be view with such faith?
> 
> It's clear Vail is being *deliberately vague. *Yet people are defending that kind of behavior using their own individual interpretation, with rosy lens no less.



And you're being deliberately stubborn. Of course the rules being vague on how exactly abuse is defined is deliberate. They're in uncharted territory. It gives them the flexibility to dynamically adjust things as needed to allow fair access for everyone (not just abc) once they see what is and isn't working and how people are actually using the system. It also limits the possibility of people like you intentionally trying to find ways to game the system and get around the "rules" that you don't like. I don't even know why you bought a pass when you were complaining for quite a while about how it would be a pain in the ass before you bought it. Then you bought it AFTER the reservation system was announced...and yet you still complain. I always find it interesting when people feel they're "entitled" to do whatever they want and that rules don't apply to them. When they don't like something, they'll "demand" a refund on a product/service that was explicitly sold as non-refundable and they'll threaten lawsuits when they don't get their way.


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## cdskier (Dec 24, 2020)

Jersey Skier said:


> I've cancelled all 3 of my reservations the past 3 weeks. One a week. Haven't heard a thing.



If you cancelled one a week, then that makes sense considering the first e-mail claimed the threshold was 2 cancellations a week for 3 weeks in a row...


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## kingslug (Dec 24, 2020)

Got in 2 hours today and then the wind shut down the 6...didn't rain so I though I would get in at least another hour or 2..but not risking getting stuck on a swinging lift. Only the d and C were running at this point. I was on the North side and went to the front side for 1 run..this was my down fall...North is probably still running but I couldn't get there..


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## kingslug (Dec 24, 2020)

And what are the odds of rain predicted for the 31st...well.it is..but if i cancel...they will come for me
Im doomed.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> And you're being deliberately stubborn.


I'm an individual, I'm not a corporation. I'm not the one who "make the rules". If I were, I'd be held to the same standard. 



cdskier said:


> you bought it AFTER the reservation system was announced...and yet you still complain.


Exactly! "The reservation" with an "open to interpretation" definition of "abuse". When a corporation *deliberately* make a contract without defining the term of the contract, the onus is on THEM to justify the definition. If they later define the terms with a distinctly bias to themselves, that's also consider "abuse". 

Like many liability waiver that aren't worth the paper they're printed on, a contract with deliberately vague language is not worth the phrases they're written on. Both are designed to intimidate the public to accept the unfair terms. But in reality they know they're not on solid ground beyond the vague impression. 

Most contracts are defined with as much specific as possible. There's a reason as to why. When a company deliberately fail to be specific, they are trying to weasel some advantages from it. They also accept the potential they may lose many challenges on the vagueness of it. So those who doesn't accept the vague terms has just as much advantage.


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## da-bum (Dec 24, 2020)

Was there tues & wed.  On tues, I never saw so many people waiting for the lift to start, but it lightened up until around 10:30 or so, where the lines started looking like the weekend's, so headed to the north, where it is the first time I couldn't ski right onto the lift.  There was still a 5 or so min wait for that lift.  It didn't lighten up until the very end.  There were enough regulars on both sides who refuse to follow the covid rules.

For wed, I booted up on my left foot so it saves me half the time getting ready and got there a little bit later due to breakfast service time that was not under my control.  When I got to the lift 5min before opening, it was insane, with tons of family day trippers or vacationers.  Good thing I came from the condo side, so I can get on the shorter line, but it was still a long wait.  After riding the flyer one more time, couldn't take it anymore so we headed directly to the north, where the lines were relatively short the whole day.  covid compliance was much better all around, all the non-regulars must have read the rules.

Does the family/non-regulars/day-trippers not know the trails in the north?  Why would the want to wait 20min on a line when there were none on the north?  Granted the only easier way down there that day was sleepy hollow, but I though that was good enough for them.

Did the locals get a memo that it was tourists day and not show up?  Or did they all get their reservation restricted at the same time?  They weren't even congregating in the north side, except for maybe the license plate dude (sans license plate) and his buddies.

Was able to do one run on the main mountain at end of the day o wed and skied cliff/bleeker/ike and it seems like it was untouched.  Does family/day trippers avoid those  trail and all head to hellgate?


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## kingslug (Dec 24, 2020)

A lot of first timers are coming..Running into them all the time now..They dont even know the north exists.


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## ss20 (Dec 24, 2020)

I've cancelled more days than I've reserved and actually ended up skiing with my Ikon.  Never heard a thing.


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2020)

Just took a quick look through my emails and I count 18 cancelations over the last couple weeks. They are all in NH and I have not gotten any emails about the cancels. I have skied one of the vail properties everyday they have been open, excluding tomorrow I expect that streak to stay alive for several more weeks but jan 14 looks tough. The cancels are either swapping mountains or my wife staying home with younger daughter due to no carpet available. I agree with a previous comment about vail being unable to locate new hampshire on a map, I do however assume them to be extremely knowledgeable about their i70 properties and would have to assume local passholders frequently jockey between areas.


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## kingslug (Dec 24, 2020)

Sounds like whatever is going through these reservations and cancelations is doing it...haphazardly?
I would think its computer driven..which should not be haphazard. 
Just another thing to add more confusion and stress to our pandemic ski season..


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2020)

I have found the reservation system to be quite sophisticated. Earlier this week I was booked at crotched, decided I wanted to ski sunapee while eating breakfast, canceled and booked sunapee, put kids on bus and drove 15 minutes before I realized I forgot my coat. Turned around and decided crotched was a better choice due to limited time, drove to crotched and then realized I forgot to switch reservation, made the switch and pass was active five minutes later. 

I equate it to a chain restaurant, the less busy locations tolerate significantly more belligerence. The busier locations simply do not have the time and there is another customer waiting to take the drunk guys bar stool.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

thebigo said:


> I have found the reservation system to be quite sophisticated.


I found it "too sophisticated". In other words, too complicated for its own good. 

Re-booking priority days took untold time gaps. The cancelled reservation doesn't immediately go back to the bank. So you can't book another one until some undetermined time later when the "system" refresh itself. Some people reported waiting for HOURS! 

Also, if you have a priority day booked, the day is greyed out on the calendar so you don't book the same day on another mountain. But regular week-of reservation don't. You have to check your own reservation list to see you've already booked that day. 

Just no consistency. Haphazard is the right word, in more ways than one.


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2020)

abc said:


> I found it "too sophisticated". In other words, too complicated for its own good.
> 
> Re-booking priority days took untold time gaps. The cancelled reservation doesn't immediately go back to the bank. So you can't book another one until some undetermined time later when the "system" refresh itself. Some people reported waiting for HOURS!
> 
> ...


Out of all the peculiar 2020 moments, I am conversing with somebody named abc in New York while waiting for my wife to put out the Christmas shit. 

Your experience is diametrically opposed to mine. I can rebook in seconds, nothing is greyed out, I get an error message when trying to book a day that is already booked.


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## abc (Dec 24, 2020)

thebigo said:


> Out of all the peculiar 2020 moments, I am conversing with somebody named abc in New York while waiting for my wife to put out the Christmas shit.


In normal years, I'd be spending Christmas with family, somewhere there's snow.

This year, I'm not having any family gathering, nor traveling anywhere chasing snow. So nothing much to do but to sit in front of my computer. (actually trying to get some work done as I've been skiing the last 5 days when I "should have been" working  )


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## kingslug (Dec 25, 2020)

Anyone know how the Hunter area did with the storm..any flooding?


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## Zermatt (Dec 25, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Anyone know how the Hunter area did with the storm..any flooding?


In coastal CT we got wind, warm temps but less than half the rain that was forecast.  That's about the only good news I have.  Webcams are depressing.


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## jg17 (Dec 25, 2020)

Closed today to "preserve snow." Website says the cam is down, but the backdoor link to the cam shows not much snow left to preserve... looks like back to WROD if/when they can reopen.


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## kingslug (Dec 25, 2020)

Just read NOAA reports..flooding beginning in many areas...


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## abc (Dec 25, 2020)

jg17 said:


> Website says the cam is down, but the backdoor link to the cam shows...


Comedy gold!


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## RichT (Dec 25, 2020)

I have a home 7 mi from Hunter both Hunter and Windham are closed, no power at my house. But if the web cams are working then the Mtns have power. Place is drenched!


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## da-bum (Dec 25, 2020)

Hunter is fully booked everyday until after the new year weekend, while other EPIC resorts in the new england are all available.  It is going to be hella packed at Hunter.  Did they drastically reduce capacity due to everything being washed out?  

I thought nobody is observing the quarantine rules and still heading to VT?  Or do they want out of state people to think twice before heading there?


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## abc (Dec 25, 2020)

da-bum said:


> Hunter is fully booked everyday until after the new year weekend, while other EPIC resorts in the new england are all available.  It is going to be hella packed at Hunter.  Did they drastically reduce capacity due to everything being washed out?
> 
> I thought nobody is observing the quarantine rules and still heading to VT?  Or do they want out of state people to think twice before heading there?


I don't know. But my observation, Hunter is a lot smaller than most of the VT mountains. And it's not fully open either. So the crowd is going to be bad whatever they do. 

Hunter has always been quite crowded on weekends. It's just this year, weekdays are the new weekends. 

And last but not least, this is the holiday period after all.


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## kingslug (Dec 25, 2020)

And..it will be rather sporty after tonight..good luck to them


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## RichT (Dec 25, 2020)

Hunter got booked before this storm, so now that the storm came the trail count went down (FAR DOWN), so now what, will they turn people away? How in the hell will they be able to keep within the guidelines of Covid when there isn't enough open trails to accommodate the crowd. Boy am I glad I didn't book a reservation.


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## abc (Dec 25, 2020)

RichT said:


> Boy am I glad I didn't book a reservation.


Had you made a reservation, you would have to worry about the wrath of Vail's random definition of "abuse"!


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## da-bum (Dec 26, 2020)

RichT said:


> Hunter got booked before this storm, so now that the storm came the trail count went down (FAR DOWN), so now what, will they turn people away? How in the hell will they be able to keep within the guidelines of Covid when there isn't enough open trails to accommodate the crowd. Boy am I glad I didn't book a reservation.


I don't think they have to worry about the crowd on the trails.  With the bottleneck on the lifts, the trails have been pretty empty.


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## abc (Dec 26, 2020)

da-bum said:


> I don't think they have to worry about the crowd on the trails.  With the bottleneck on the lifts, the trails have been pretty empty.


You mean there's now no more constant streams of out of control idiots on Bell Parkway?


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 26, 2020)

They are blowing the F out of the mountain currently


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## kingslug (Dec 26, 2020)

And too bad its all sold out...but at least I can ski on Thursday...in what I don't know..doesn't look good.


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## abc (Dec 26, 2020)

kingslug said:


> at least I can ski on Thursday...in what I don't know..doesn't look good.


It looks a lot better than Friday


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## kingslug (Dec 29, 2020)

Guns are blowing all over the place...


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## crank (Dec 29, 2020)

Good.  We are skiing tomorrow.


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## RichT (Dec 29, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Guns are blowing all over the place...


Would be nice if the so called "Lift and Terrain" report had which trails were getting that love. They only show groomed.


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## kingslug (Dec 29, 2020)

I look at the webcams..Looks like they were blowing the base and mainline..They definately did more though as cliff is now open. 
This cracks me up:  A touch of snow, sleet and rain in the morning; otherwise, dull and dreary; storm total 1-3" accuweather report..hell I'll take it..1 to 3 inches predicted for wednesday night..should be good.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 3, 2021)

Did a bunch of runs on the North side.   It's nice to have the parking lot open - super chill.  Saw a few friends there that I haven't seen in a year..   
It snowed a trace this morning - upper mountain socked in. Belt was scarier than usual because of the fog so I didn't head down the front..
Very cool to see an employee riding the lift down asking people to mask up on packed lifts coming up... Appreciated that..


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## kingslug (Jan 3, 2021)

Hopefully it gets some tonight..will be there tomorrow.


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## mikec142 (Jan 3, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Very cool to see an employee riding the lift down asking people to mask up on packed lifts coming up... Appreciated that..


Curious if Hunter was loading chairs with people from different families/groups?  When I skied Windham they were doing that and I was disappointed.  Windham, the six pack was being loaded with a single on each end and a double in the middle.  I would never get on that chair and thus won't ski Windham on a weekend solo this season.


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## kingslug (Jan 3, 2021)

Cam shows its snowing...always a good thing.


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## drjeff (Jan 3, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> Curious if Hunter was loading chairs with people from different families/groups?  When I skied Windham they were doing that and I was disappointed.  Windham, the six pack was being loaded with a single on each end and a double in the middle.  I would never get on that chair and thus won't ski Windham on a weekend solo this season.



Mount Snow atleast, has been loading their 6, if it's not a group in the queue lane of 3 or more, as either 2 separate singles on either side of the chair, or if there's a double, the double is asked if they wouldn't mind having a single on the other side of the chair with them. 

That seems to be the Vail resorts standardized plan for loading 6's this season.


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## da-bum (Jan 3, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Did a bunch of runs on the North side.   It's nice to have the parking lot open - super chill.  Saw a few friends there that I haven't seen in a year..
> It snowed a trace this morning - upper mountain socked in. Belt was scarier than usual because of the fog so I didn't head down the front..
> Very cool to see an employee riding the lift down asking people to mask up on packed lifts coming up... Appreciated that..


Are they scanning on the north side?  Without the parking, nobody is scanning, and frequently, some lifties just space out because there is nothing to do.  If they don't scan, non-ticket holders could just park right there and do a whole day there.



drjeff said:


> Mount Snow atleast, has been loading their 6, if it's not a group in the queue lane of 3 or more, as either 2 separate singles on either side of the chair, or if there's a double, the double is asked if they wouldn't mind having a single on the other side of the chair with them.
> 
> That seems to be the Vail resorts standardized plan for loading 6's this season.


The standard indicated seems to be that they will leave 2 open seats between groups.  You think for the 6 pack, they would pair groups of 2 and 2, or  3 and 1.  But with the option of having your group riding alone, some small groups, whom frequently don't seem to care about following the covid rules, seem to want to ride on their own. How many groups riding on the same lift seems to depend on how the lift operator phrases the question.  Some asks if they want to ride alone, and more often than not, they would say yes.  If the question asked is if they mind riding with another group, most won't mind.  I've seen instances when they have lift operators asking the opt-in question and the lines just end up running 10 deep, then they switch to someone else that asks the opt-out question and queue length drops down to 2 or 3.


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## Tdizzle (Jan 4, 2021)

da-bum said:


> Are they scanning on the north side?  Without the parking, nobody is scanning, and frequently, some lifties just space out because there is nothing to do.  If they don't scan, non-ticket holders could just park right there and do a whole day there.
> 
> 
> The standard indicated seems to be that they will leave 2 open seats between groups.  You think for the 6 pack, they would pair groups of 2 and 2, or  3 and 1.  But with the option of having your group riding alone, some small groups, whom frequently don't seem to care about following the covid rules, seem to want to ride on their own. How many groups riding on the same lift seems to depend on how the lift operator phrases the question.  Some asks if they want to ride alone, and more often than not, they would say yes.  If the question asked is if they mind riding with another group, most won't mind.  I've seen instances when they have lift operators asking the opt-in question and the lines just end up running 10 deep, then they switch to someone else that asks the opt-out question and queue length drops down to 2 or 3.


I rode North side for about an hour yesterday. They were not scanning and the parking lot was open. I was over there from around 12-1.


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## da-bum (Jan 4, 2021)

Tdizzle said:


> I rode North side for about an hour yesterday. They were not scanning and the parking lot was open. I was over there from around 12-1.


That's good for people trying to sneak into w/o a pass and bad for someone who has a pass and reserved.  They will flag you as a No Show unless you head to the main lifts on the other side of the mountain just to get it scanned, which on a crowded day would take a good chunk of time.  Maybe you can request they scan your pass.  Alternatively, pass by the main lodge so they can scan you at the entrance.


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## kingslug (Jan 4, 2021)

Pretty good day so far..snowed about 4 to 5 inches..n side empty as usual..main side a little busy..flurries now


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## Tdizzle (Jan 4, 2021)

da-bum said:


> That's good for people trying to sneak into w/o a pass and bad for someone who has a pass and reserved.  They will flag you as a No Show unless you head to the main lifts on the other side of the mountain just to get it scanned, which on a crowded day would take a good chunk of time.  Maybe you can request they scan your pass.  Alternatively, pass by the main lodge so they can scan you at the entrance.


I have a pass and entered through the front. I was annoyed to see that the North lot was open and they didn't have anyone scanning people. I was there New Years Day and rode D to F. I never was scanned once. I had to ask the people at the front, when I was leaving, to scan me just so I don't get considered as a no show. I don't understand how Vail can't afford to auto scanners at the lifts where people can walk on.


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## icecoast1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Tdizzle said:


> I have a pass and entered through the front. I was annoyed to see that the North lot was open and they didn't have anyone scanning people. I was there New Years Day and rode D to F. I never was scanned once. I had to ask the people at the front, when I was leaving, to scan me just so I don't get considered as a no show. I don't understand how Vail can't afford to auto scanners at the lifts where people can walk on.


Vail was supposed to put rfid at all the former peak properties this past summer..... that never happened


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 4, 2021)

They are definitely using RFID everywhere.   They use RFID hand scanners vs the in place gates.


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## Tdizzle (Jan 4, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> They are definitely using RFID everywhere.   They use RFID hand scanners vs the in place gates.


Right, but the gates make it so that you can't get on the lift without scanning. Human scanners often miss people, especially when human scanners aren't at a lift scanning.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 4, 2021)

oh I agree about them not always scanning.  I was replying to @icecoast1 stating that they are using RFID at all resorts.

the gates suck.  I'd rather have the hand held especially now that most of the people using them realize they work better when you are farther away.


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## kingslug (Jan 4, 2021)

Gore is having problems with their gates a lot lately..


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## kingslug (Jan 4, 2021)

I remember when mondays were me 20 people and the occasional tumbleweed...times..have changed..


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## skiur (Jan 4, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Gore is having problems with their gates a lot lately..



The rfid gates at Killington work great, I don't think I've been held up by one at all this year. I definitely prefer the gates over being scanned by a person.  Much more efficient.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 4, 2021)

Tdizzle said:


> I rode North side for about an hour yesterday. They were not scanning and the parking lot was open. I was over there from around 12-1.


They scanned me when I first arrived.  They saw me coming over the foot bridge...


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## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

Another day it seems without any snowmaking here at Hunter.......


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> Another day it seems without any snowmaking here at Hunter.......


To be fair, no one in the Cats is making snow right now (Windham says they're resuming tonight, Platty says resuming "midweek"). Humidity is very high and temps are marginal...so hard to blame Hunter on this one (especially with all their neighbors taking the same approach right now).


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

The temps at my house are hovering at 32....   Thanks for not blasting water...


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## da-bum (Jan 5, 2021)

Lift broken today?  Base cam shows it either not running or nobody on the chairs


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 5, 2021)

Hunter just posted on Twitter that they will not open today... With no explanation.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Hunter just posted on Twitter that they will not open today... With no explanation.



Announcing you will be closed almost an hour after you're supposed to open...this should be interesting.


----------



## Jersey Skier (Jan 5, 2021)

I have a reservation for tomorrow. Was hoping for my first day of the season. Really don't want to wake up at 5 for a 2 1/2 hour drive to a closed mountain. I really wish there was an easy way to get an Epic pass refund for my unused pass.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Jersey Skier said:


> I have a reservation for tomorrow. Was hoping for my first day of the season. Really don't want to wake up at 5 for a 2 1/2 hour drive to a closed mountain. I really wish there was an easy way to get an Epic pass refund for my unused pass.


You may get your wish!

7 days of closure is what it takes. Day 1 down. 6 to go.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 5, 2021)

Rumor mill is spinning.... a possible ski patrol strike? Is this the first sign of an uprising against Vails management (or lack thereof)?


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

Lot's of texts this morning...  Not sure what to believe.
But the gist is that there are Ski Patrollers that have tested positive for COVID-19 and there may have been an outbreak over Christmas.
I hope everyone is OK.    I went ahead and cancelled my weekend days at Hunter for January.   I'm not going near the place...


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## da-bum (Jan 5, 2021)

I have some days reserved, I might have to drive 2.5 hrs each way everyday just so they could scan me in instead of cancelling, just so that I don't get blacklisted.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

Hunter has provided a bit of an update...



> Hunter Mountain will not be opening today, Jan. 5. The safety of our employees and guests is our top priority and we will always ensure that we have sufficient safety personnel available for mountain operations prior to opening. Unfortunately, this morning at Hunter Mountain, a number of ski patrollers excluded out of work relating to COVID-19 and as such we will not be opening the mountain. Guests who arrived to the resort but were unable to ski or ride are being provided with a complementary lift ticket coupon for use on another day. We will be assessing our ability to operate tomorrow, Jan. 6, and will share that information as soon as possible later today. We sincerely apologize to our guests for the inconvenience.


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## raisingarizona (Jan 5, 2021)

Here comes that post Christmas break outbreak we were told was coming.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Hunter has provided a bit of an update...


Whoa.  That is not good.  Not enough ski patrollers due to COVID.  Ouch.


----------



## FBGM (Jan 5, 2021)

Are ski patrol unionized there? They went Union a few years back at Park City.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

So if Ski Patrol needs to be tested - they need to quarantine for like 4 days after the test..  I wouldn't plan on Hunter this mid-week...


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Are ski patrol unionized there? They went Union a few years back at Park City.


No..  Not even First Responders like in VT.  A friend of mine is a patroller in VT and got the vacine..


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## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

I get the "fast test" at work, takes about 20 mins to get the results.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> I get the "fast test" at work, takes about 20 mins to get the results.


But then you need to quarantine for 4 days to really be safe..


----------



## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Whoa.  That is not good.  Not enough ski patrollers due to COVID.  Ouch.


Of course you also have people claiming on Facebook that they "talked to ski patrol" and that Hunter is using the "COVID" reason as a cover-up for ski patrol being on strike due to their pay not being what was promised or something like that...

Take that with a grain of salt...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Of course you also have people claiming on Facebook that they "talked to ski patrol" and that Hunter is using the "COVID" reason as a cover-up for ski patrol being on strike due to their pay not being what was promised or something like that...
> 
> Take that with a grain of salt...


Thats a load of BS...   
If there was an outbreak in the patrol room - they all need to get tested and quarantine


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

But when you start to think about it.   Ski Patrollers have kids in lessons - partners that are instructors - and so on...  It's a web of social interaction..
This could be a super-spreader situation....


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## da-bum (Jan 5, 2021)

Are we sure its not a ski patrol strike?  Someone that supposedly works there is really really adamant on it on FB.  And I've been seeing alot of sinkholes that are not fenced off on the trails.  My skis tips even sank into a deep depression on the fastest part of Overlook causing me to fly and slide head first for over 100 ft, and what feels like a fractured thumb.


----------



## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Of course you also have people claiming on Facebook that they "talked to ski patrol" and that Hunter is using the "COVID" reason as a cover-up for ski patrol being on strike due to their pay not being what was promised or something like that...
> 
> Take that with a grain of salt...


I doubt it. 

1) Why would they strike now, not last year? Did they get a pay cut? 

2) Making a false claim of Covid positive is not without cost. As pointed out above, they ALL have to quarantine so it would means not open for at least 7 days. That would trigger a massive pass refund. 

So, unless it's true, I doubt they would use that as an "excuse" as a cover up.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 5, 2021)

da-bum said:


> Are we sure its not a ski patrol strike?  Someone that supposedly works there is really really adamant on it on FB.  And I've been seeing alot of sinkholes that are not fenced off on the trails.  My skis tips even sank into a deep depression on the fastest part of Overlook causing me to fly and slide head first for over 100 ft, and what feels like a fractured thumb.


Really?  That seems like a stretch to me.  I can't see patrollers intentionally ignoring safety issues out of spite towards Vail.  That really is not a good reflection of these professionals.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Thats a load of BS...
> If there was an outbreak in the patrol room - they all need to get tested and quarantine


I fully agree...

I think you missed my point though. The person on Facebook claims they personally spoke to ski patrol and that no one at all is actually sick and the story of someone being sick is just a cover. Like I said earlier though, take that with a grain of salt as this person (that's claiming it is a strike and not actually anyone being sick) could be making stuff up.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I fully agree...
> 
> I think you missed my point though. The person on Facebook claims they personally spoke to ski patrol and that no one at all is actually sick and the story of someone being sick is just a cover. Like I said earlier though, take that with a grain of salt as this person (that's claiming it is a strike and not actually anyone being sick) could be making stuff up.


I know for a fact that people have tested positive.   
Someone also said they were told it was because of a water main break.... didn't happen...


----------



## da-bum (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I fully agree...
> 
> I think you missed my point though. The person on Facebook claims they personally spoke to ski patrol and that no one at all is actually sick and the story of someone being sick is just a cover. Like I said earlier though, take that with a grain of salt as this person (that's claiming it is a strike and not actually anyone being sick) could be making stuff up.


But that person has definitive proof via a video that has the person filming saying "Ski patrol on strike".  Its stronger evidence than the coronavirus is a hoax conspiracy


----------



## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

da-bum said:


> But that person has definitive proof via a video that has the person filming saying "Ski patrol on strike".  Its stronger evidence than the coronavirus is a hoax conspiracy



LOL. I watched that video and was like "huh?". It has been interesting following all the comments on that thread...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

I know for a fact that she is wrong.   But there may be some truth in it.   It could be that patrollers refuse to work because of the COVID cases and the testing issues..


----------



## NYDB (Jan 5, 2021)

Personally, I would trust Funky instead of some fakebook bs.  He seems to have his finger on the pulse of Huntah and is a member of the community there,


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I know for a fact that she is wrong.   But there may be some truth in it.   It could be that patrollers refuse to work because of the COVID cases and the testing issues..


That makes the most sense.

But then again, sometimes life is stranger than fiction...


----------



## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I know for a fact that she is wrong.   But there may be some truth in it.   It could be that patrollers refuse to work because of the COVID cases and the testing issues..



Yea, that would make a lot of sense. If Hunter/Vail isn't doing enough to ensure the safety of the patrollers after positive cases, I don't blame them for having issues with that.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Personally, I would trust Funky instead of some fakebook bs.  He seems to have his finger on the pulse of Huntah and is a member of the community there,



yeah - I've lived here for 18 years now...   
A friend of mine chimed in on FB... She's the wife of a patroller. She said it's not a strike.  I think it's just a jammed up situation.
I know more than I can say - trying to be cool to the people that are infected and the ski area...


----------



## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> A friend of mine chimed in on FB... She's the wife of a patroller. She said it's not a strike. I think it's just a jammed up situation.


That could be quite a jam. 

All the patrollers sharing the same work space are now potentially infected. If they all need to quarantine, that could really hamper the operation. (Kind of the same jam hospitals has back in March. Too many doctors/nurses out of work due to need to quarantine)


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> That could be quite a jam.
> 
> All the patrollers sharing the same work space are now potentially infected. If they all need to quarantine, that could really hamper the operation. (Kind of the same jam hospitals has back in March. Too many doctors/nurses out of work due to need to quarantine)


Exactly...   Get an official test with Vail - then you have to quarantine for 5 days. You can assume everyone was potentially exposed in that jammed up locker room and summit room.  So that's most of patrol..


----------



## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

If true about covid (sounds true) couldn't Vail pull patrollers from other mtns?


----------



## andrec10 (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> If true about covid (sounds true) couldn't Vail pull patrollers from other mtns?


I bet they will for tomorrow. Or at least I hope they do!


----------



## FBGM (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> If true about covid (sounds true) couldn't Vail pull patrollers from other mtns?


And do what with them? Give them free housing? And more money for a week relocation? Not happening.


----------



## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

FBGM said:


> And do what with them? Give them free housing? And more money for a week relocation? Not happening.



Agreed...it isn't like they have another property that close.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

Also they need to figure out who else came in contact with the patrollers..
Like I said- it's tangled social web.  Lot's of parties going on during Christmas.  Lot's of patrollers spouses working in ski school... etc....


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

FBGM said:


> And do what with them? Give them free housing? And more money for a week relocation? Not happening.


Put them in the Hotel and feed them...


----------



## rebel1916 (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> If true about covid (sounds true) couldn't Vail pull patrollers from other mtns?


Are they trained to do lift evac on Huntah's lifts?  Do they have local knowledge to let them patrol effectively?  If so, are they full time or do they have other jobs?


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

rebel1916 said:


> Are they trained to do lift evac on Huntah's lifts?  Do they have local knowledge to let them patrol effectively?  If so, are they full time or do they have other jobs?



Im gonna say... no....


----------



## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Not to mention most other Vail mountains are short staffed (or at least that's the claim for all the short comings)


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> Not to mention most other Vail mountains are short staffed (or at least that's the claim for all the short comings)



Hunter is short staffed due to no foreign workers


----------



## Cobbold (Jan 5, 2021)

Hunter may be the first Mtn with this issue, but my guess not the last.


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## ski&soccermom (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> 1) Why would they strike now, not last year? Did they get a pay cut?


I don’t think it is a strike, as there are patrollers at Hunter with COVID.  With that said, this year could make sense to strike.  Last year, the peak resorts gave volunteer patrollers passes for their whole families (which ski instructors get as well).  This year, Vail would not give the passes to the patrollers (while still giving them to other employees and waiving the need for reservations for the employee and their whole family).  As such, many patrollers are unhappy and/or quit this year so they are short staffed.  Vail doesn’t pay the volunteers or give them the benefit of the passes and this is the result...


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## catskillman (Jan 5, 2021)

da-bum said:


> Are we sure its not a ski patrol strike?  Someone that supposedly works there is really really adamant on it on FB.  And I've been seeing alot of sinkholes that are not fenced off on the trails.  My skis tips even sank into a deep depression on the fastest part of Overlook causing me to fly and slide head first for over 100 ft, and what feels like a fractured thumb.


So true - yesterday there were 2 sinkholes unmarked at the bottom of Kennedy on the way to the six pack.


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## thebigo (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> If true about covid (sounds true) couldn't Vail pull patrollers from other mtns?


I was told they were not allowing employees to work at multiple mountains this year; if there is a spreader event at one mountain they do not want it spreading to another property. This was with respect to wildcat and attitash, no idea if it applies at hunter.


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## MogulMonsters (Jan 5, 2021)

ski&soccermom said:


> I don’t think it is a strike, as there are patrollers at Hunter with COVID.  With that said, this year could make sense to strike.  Last year, the peak resorts gave volunteer patrollers passes for their whole families (which ski instructors get as well).  This year, Vail would not give the passes to the patrollers (while still giving them to other employees and waiving the need for reservations for the employee and their whole family).  As such, many patrollers are unhappy and/or quit this year so they are short staffed.  Vail doesn’t pay the volunteers or give them the benefit of the passes and this is the result...


Why on earth would someone volunteer to be ski patrol without getting passes?  That seems to be the biggest "soft" perk of the job.  Sheesh!


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## FBGM (Jan 5, 2021)

MogulMonsters said:


> Why on earth would someone volunteer to be ski patrol without getting passes?  That seems to be the biggest "soft" perk of the job.  Sheesh!


Vail got rid of all volunteers all together at PC last I heard. This was few years back. Maybe they brought them back? Reasoning was due to insurance....


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## Cobbold (Jan 5, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Vail got rid of all volunteers all together at PC last I heard. This was few years back. Maybe they brought them back? Reasoning was due to insurance....


I had heard that all ski patrol was paid, no more volunteers due to insurance issues, at least that’s what someone told me at okemo, okemo had a volunteer ski patrol and when vail took over, to be patrol you had to be a vail employee.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> I had heard that all ski patrol was paid, no more volunteers due to insurance issues, at least that’s what someone told me at okemo, okemo had a volunteer ski patrol and when vail took over, to be patrol you had to be a vail employee.



That happened a while back..  Same thing happened at Hunter I think...  But I don't think the voli's are Vail


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 5, 2021)

pretty sure ski patrol is still volunteer her in PA.  I'll see if I can find out.  My buddies brother is a patroller and an orthodontist.  He certainly isn't patrolling for the extra coin...


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## sugarbushskier (Jan 5, 2021)

Wow!  I've never skied Hunter so figured it would be one of my new areas for this year.  Have the Epic Midweek NE Value Pass and w the VT quarantine restrictions thought NY made some sense.  Glad I cancelled about a week ago as I'd be bullshit if I got up at 5AM to make a 2.5+hr drive to find it closed.  Another Vail Fail example this year.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

sugarbushskier said:


> I'd be bullshit if I got up at 5AM to make a 2.5+hr drive to find it closed. Another Vail Fail example this year.


Unwelcome as it maybe, would you have prefer they open the mountain with half the patrollers? 

It's not like they can predict how many patrollers will "fail" the morning check... 

For once, I don't feel it's Vail's fault for not opening. 

Now, as for no communication, I would agree 100%


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> Unwelcome as it maybe, would you have prefer they open the mountain with half the patrollers?
> 
> It's not like they can predict how many patrollers will "fail" the morning check...
> 
> ...


 
agree....


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## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

FBGM said:


> And do what with them? Give them free housing? And more money for a week relocation? Not happening.


It'll be cheaper than refunding everyone's season passes!


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## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> agree....


agree 1,000,000,000 %


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> It'll be cheaper than refunding everyone's season passes!


Totally!
7 days, 1 down, 6 to go


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## Jersey Skier (Jan 5, 2021)

How long will they wait to announce tomorrow's status? You can still buy a ticket online or reserve for tomorrow.  If they know they are going to be closed they should announce this as early as possible so people can plan accordingly. Or, wait till 10 am and piss off more people.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

Jersey Skier said:


> How long will they wait to announce tomorrow's status? You can still buy a ticket online or reserve for tomorrow.  If they know they are going to be closed they should announce this as early as possible so people can plan accordingly. Or, wait till 10 am and piss off more people.



Maybe just maybe they needed some time to figure it all out. And maybe they tried to get people in place but didn't succeed...
Maybe they DID announce it as soon as possible. Which isn't fast enough for entitled skiers I reckon...

We are all figuring this shit out..  At least most of us are.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Jersey Skier said:


> How long will they wait to announce tomorrow's status? You can still buy a ticket online or reserve for tomorrow.  If they know they are going to be closed they should announce this as early as possible so people can plan accordingly. Or, wait till 10 am and piss off more people.


Good question. 

I wouldn't plan on going there this WEEK!


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> Good question.
> 
> I wouldn't plan on going there this WEEK!



If the patrollers do get tested by Vail - they have to quarantine for 5 days...


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> We are all figuring this shit out..  At least most of us are.


We are. But Vail isn't trying too hard.

They should have posted the information a lot sooner. They wait till an hour AFTER the lift was supposed to be spinning to say they're not open, with no explanation.

It's almost 5pm. The last update on the website was before noon.

This is definitely a Vail trademark, ZERO COMMUNICATION!

BTW, people who showed up was "comp" a voucher for a day ticket. But if you're a pass holder, what are you supposed to do with that day ticket? Sell it???


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## Jersey Skier (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Maybe just maybe they needed some time to figure it all out. And maybe they tried to get people in place but didn't succeed...
> Maybe they DID announce it as soon as possible. Which isn't fast enough for entitled skiers I reckon...
> 
> We are all figuring this shit out..  At least most of us are.


I have no problem with today. But they know something needs to be announced for tomorrow.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> We are. But Vail isn't trying too hard.
> 
> They should have posted the information a lot sooner. They wait till an hour AFTER the lift was supposed to be spinning to say they're not open, with no explanation.
> 
> ...


I'm a pass holder - I'd give it to someone.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

Jersey Skier said:


> I have no problem with today. But they know something needs to be announced for tomorrow.


If they fuck this up tomorrow my tune will change.


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## chuckstah (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> Totally!
> 7 days, 1 down, 6 to go


Only if it's one of your 7 "priority days", booked by December 7th or thereabouts. That's how I read it anyway. If you picked Hunter as "home mountain" then certain percentage back will begin.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> It'll be cheaper than refunding everyone's season passes!


Not necessarily.

The refund formula due to resort closure events is rather complicated. First of all, only people that selected Hunter as their "Primary Resort" under Epic coverage are in-scope here (if you chose "All resorts", you're out of luck already as Hunter alone closing wouldn't meet the criteria for that coverage). Second...the closure needs to extend to 7 days (unless you happened to have one of the closure days reserved as a "priority" day. In that case even closures of less than 7 days would get you a tiny bit of a refund), 3rd, the refund is pro-rated based on a 118 day core season. So best case scenario you're getting a 6% refund if Hunter was closed a full 7 days AND you chose Hunter as your primary resort AND you don't use your Epic pass anywhere else during the days Hunter is closed.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I'm a pass holder - I'd give it to someone.


That's not exactly a "comp" for people who drove an hour or more to get there. Even if their waste time can't be comp'ed, giving it away doesn't even cover the gas money/toll. 

There's not a whole lot they can do for what happened today. But the lack of clarity is pretty glaring. 

And that of communication is across the board (eastern seaboard, that is). To many, it's a glaring sign that Vail doesn't care about the eastern skiers access to their local mountain, only care to "feed" Vail's western destination mountains.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> That's not exactly a "comp" for people who drove an hour or more to get there. Even if their waste time can't be comp'ed, giving it away doesn't even cover the gas money/toll.
> 
> There's not a whole lot they can do for what happened today. But the lack of clarity is pretty glaring.
> 
> And that of communication is across the board (eastern seaboard, that is). To many, it's a glaring sign that Vail doesn't care about the eastern skiers access to their local mountain, only care to "feed" Vail's western destination mountains.


I'm a spoiled local...   I bet some sort of refund happens with the pass - I got $$ from Vail after last season.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> The refund formula due to resort closure events is rather complicated.


There're multiple scenarios, which may look complicated. But each scenario isn't so complicated. 

If you pick Hunter as your "primary" mountain, 7 days is all it takes for a full refund. 

There's a caveat, it needs to be 7 consecutive days. So my prediction is come hell and high water, they'll re-open no later than next Monday.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> There're multiple scenarios, which may look complicated. But each scenario isn't so complicated.
> 
> If you pick Hunter as your "primary" mountain, 7 days is all it takes for a full refund.
> 
> There's a caveat, it needs to be 7 consecutive days. So my prediction is come hell and high water, they'll re-open no later than next Monday.



I think you need to re-read the Epic Coverage terms. Simply 7 consecutive days of a "Closure & Cancellation refund" related closure does NOT get you a full refund of a season pass unless those happened to be your "Priority Reservation" days (and you elected the coverage only for your Priority days instead of Core Season coverage).


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I'm a spoiled local...   I bet some sort of refund happens with the pass - I got $$ from Vail after last season.


I got a credit from last year too, even though I used the pass plenty.

I suspect it's highly likely they'll again offer some credit next year. But I'm very unlikely to renew it next year.

I'm not a local, so not exactly a fan. Just an opportunist. I "rotate" among several of the mega passes. Hunter is one of the many mountain I'm interested in skiing under the Epic pass. It just also happens to be the closet, though still an hour and half one way.

Having said all that, or maybe because of I'm unlikely to renew next year, I still hope to use it at HUNTER this year. I much prefer to ski Hunter this year, than to get a refund and MAYBE ski Hunter next year.


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## da-bum (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> That's not exactly a "comp" for people who drove an hour or more to get there. Even if their waste time can't be comp'ed, giving it away doesn't even cover the gas money/toll.


That doesn't even include people who planned on skiing multiple days and have already booked their places to stay nearby.  I was just about to be one of those.  Initially looking to ski tues/wed and stay overnight tues, but saw wed/thur looks like better weather and planned on those days.  Given that its me, I didn't reserve or book a place to stay yet.  Sometimes I get unlucky because rooms run out, but this time I was lucky to not have booked a room since nobody gives refunds on such short notice.  Some might give credit if any one of us checking in have caught covid, but there is no mention of resort closure.


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## drjeff (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> There're multiple scenarios, which may look complicated. But each scenario isn't so complicated.
> 
> If you pick Hunter as your "primary" mountain, 7 days is all it takes for a full refund.
> 
> There's a caveat, it needs to be 7 consecutive days. So my prediction is come hell and high water, they'll re-open no later than next Monday.



Don't forget the other part, that you had to specify Hunter as your primary mountain, prior to the deadline, which I believe was the 1st week of December, for that clause to kick in.

Between the testing turn around time, and the likely guidance that the Dept of Public Health is likely giving Hunter about this, highly doubt that they'll hit the 7 consecutive days mark from this


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I think you need to re-read the Epic Coverage terms. Simply 7 consecutive days of a "Closure & Cancellation refund" related closure does NOT get you a full refund of a season pass unless those happened to be your "Priority Reservation" days (and you elected the coverage only for your Priority days instead of Core Season coverage).


You're confusing two different scenarios. 

There's the "Priority Reservation", which is the 7 days you reserved. It doesn't need to be consecutive. 

Then, there's the "Primary Mountain", which is just a single mountain. That's where the consecutive 7 days applies.


----------



## Not Sure (Jan 5, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> pretty sure ski patrol is still volunteer her in PA.  I'll see if I can find out.  My buddies brother is a patroller and an orthodontist.  He certainly isn't patrolling for the extra coin...


Yup ,at Camelback at least . All the hours they put in before the season and during amazes me that anyone would do the job as a volunteer!


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> You're confusing two different scenarios.
> 
> There's the "Priority Reservation", which is the 7 days you reserved. It doesn't need to be consecutive.
> 
> Then, there's the "Primary Mountain", which is just a single mountain. That's where the consecutive 7 days applies.


I'm really not...

I could post the formula here, but let's go with the example straight out of the FAQ instead since it is pretty clear...



> Example: If you select “Core Season” and choose Breckenridge as your primary resort, if Breckenridge is closed for 60 days of the 2020/21 season due to a qualifying resort closure(s) and you ski 3 days at Keystone while Breckenridge is closed, you would receive a refund of 8.0% (50.8% of season is closed minus 42.8% for additional days skied).



This example specifically used a "Primary Mountain" choice AND even had the primary mountain being closed for much longer than 7 days.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Don't forget the other part, that you had to specify Hunter as your primary mountain, prior to the deadline, which I believe was the 1st week of December, for that clause to kick in.
> 
> Between the testing turn around time, and the likely guidance that the Dept of Public Health is likely giving Hunter about this, highly doubt that they'll hit the 7 consecutive days mark from this


December 7 I think. It was also extended to something like December 15 or so. 

I have little doubt they'll open before the 7 day mark. In the worst case, they'll just open one lift and one trail next Monday. It doesn't take too many patrollers to patrol that. It would be sufficient to break the refund requirement. 

The only way they'll close for 7 consecutive days is if the mountain got shut down by the state. Or we go into another full lockdown.


----------



## FBGM (Jan 5, 2021)

I think at this point it’s not about the patrollers getting sick - it’s Vails serious lack of communication in general this year, everywhere. 

A fucking nuke could take out Hunter and they would send a standard press release 3 days later


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I'm really not...
> 
> I could post the formula here, but let's go with the example straight out of the *FAQ* instead since it is pretty clear...
> 
> This example specifically used a "Primary Mountain" choice AND even had the primary mountain being closed for much longer than 7 days.



Don't just read the FAQ's. Read the *Terms and Conditions*!



> *Refund Eligibility. *You may be eligible for a “*Closure and Cancellation Refund*” (or “*C&C Refund*”) if a Priority Reservation Cancellation Event or an E*xtended Resort Closure Event *occurs.
> 
> *You elected a Primary Resort and the Primary Resort you selected is closed for seven (7) *or more consecutive days during the Core Season due to a Resort Cl


It's really not that complicated.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 5, 2021)

lolz all around.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

abc said:


> Don't just read the FAQ's. Read the *Terms and Conditions*!
> 
> 
> It's really not that complicated.


You didn't read far enough apparently... You simply read the part about what triggers the refund eligibility. Now read the section on how the refunds are calculated. It is a little further down from what you quoted.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> You didn't read far enough apparently... You simply read the part about what triggers the refund eligibility. Now read the section on how the refunds are calculated. It is a little further down from what you quoted.


Sorry, I thought you were talking about what qualifies a refund. My bad.


----------



## Jersey Skier (Jan 5, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> If they fuck this up tomorrow my tune will change.


I miss Izzy and Orville.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Jan 5, 2021)

Jersey Skier said:


> I miss Izzy and Orville.


THIS!!!!


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## sull1102 (Jan 5, 2021)

FBGM said:


> I think at this point it’s not about the patrollers getting sick - it’s Vails serious lack of communication in general this year, everywhere.
> 
> A fucking nuke could take out Hunter and they would send a standard press release 3 days later.



Completely agree. It's almost like they are trying to run everything out of one central office out west that is taking entirely too long to send out any information whatsoever about any number of issues.


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## abc (Jan 5, 2021)

sull1102 said:


> Completely agree. It's almost like they are trying to run everything out of one central office out west that is taking entirely too long to send out any information whatsoever about any number of issues.


Sounds just like the company I work for, which shall remain nameless. 

Joking aside, this often happens. A company grows. What used to work for that size of company no longer works at twice the size. If the CEO doesn't realize it and change fast enough, he's going to end up with half of what he started with...


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## drjeff (Jan 5, 2021)

sull1102 said:


> Completely agree. It's almost like they are trying to run everything out of one central office out west that is taking entirely too long to send out any information whatsoever about any number of issues.



I'm guessing that there's a bunch of back and forth between the employees involved at Hunter, probably to their supervisor and then to the GM who then is involved both with the Dept of Public Health as well as Vail's East Regional directory (who if I recall is out of Okemo) who then gets the various folks at a different level at the Colorado mothership involved, at which point there's probably been multiple new developments at the Hunter level between the respective folks at the mountain as well as the dept of public health (and that's making the assumption that the folks at the local dept of public health don't have to get guidance from their higher ups at the state level...) 

So just on the communications between the various parties and management levels, this is a recipe for SLOW response time, and that's even before a finalized determination of how to handle it is made so that the Vail folks at the mothership can properly determine the wording to explain things to their employees and customers and the local community at large.

That probably sums a good percentage of the communications side of this up.

At the end of the day, regardless of what the entire story is, if people's health is involved, may everyone end up safe and healthy! That's more important than lifts not spinning or possible pass refunds


----------



## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

How about this, announce if you're going to be open tomorrow or not thene tweet/FB. BUT NOT TOMORROW AT 10!! Shit it's 7 already, what the hell are you waiting for?


----------



## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

> Updated January 05, 2021 at 7:09 PM EST
> 
> Hunter Mountain will remain closed tomorrow, Jan. 6. The safety of our employees and guests is our top priority and we will always ensure that we have sufficient safety personnel available for mountain operations prior to opening. Unfortunately, this morning at Hunter Mountain, a number of ski patrollers excluded out of work relating to COVID-19 which is impacting today and tomorrow’s operations. We are assessing our ability to operate for the rest of this week and will provide updates on our social media channels and website tomorrow. We again apologize to our guests for any inconvenience.


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## RichT (Jan 5, 2021)

They must of heard me!............................CLOSED


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## thetrailboss (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> They must of heard me!............................CLOSED


Wow.  Not good.  Combined with the issues at Attitash/Wildcat it looks like Vail has a lot of problems on the east coast.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 5, 2021)

RichT said:


> How about this, announce if you're going to be open tomorrow or not thene tweet/FB. BUT NOT TOMORROW AT 10!! Shit it's 7 already, what the hell are you waiting for?


You got your answer 9 minutes later.


----------



## ss20 (Jan 5, 2021)

Well....the whole industry watches what will happen over the next few days. 

Either this will be a "blip" that people don't produce concern for, or we'll see another collapse of significant portions of the ski industry.  I think the latter is not the plausible option but I can very well see a path to this route given it is NYS and Vail.


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## njdiver85 (Jan 5, 2021)

Great synopsis of what is going on at Hunter on the Northeast Skiology FB page.  Bottom line . . . much of the issue is self-inflicted by Vail.  They took away the traditional family perks that go along with being ski patrol, and treated the volunteer ski patrollers like second class citizens.  As a result, they lost many ski patrol employees this year.  Soooo . . . now they have no reserves to handle the loss of a handful of patrollers to a precautionary Covid quarantine.  Vail sucks!


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## da-bum (Jan 6, 2021)

So from the sounds of it, it is not that they have to quarantine a whole bunch of workers, thus it having to close until they are cleared to go back to work, but that they don't have any volunteer patrols willing to take off work to cover for the paid members that tested positive or are in isolation.  But they are searching around for other available ski patrols to cover, and by the weekend, they will definitely have enough volunteers to open the mountain.


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## kingslug (Jan 6, 2021)

I've noticed very few patrollers compared to years past. Probably another reason why the west side remains closed. That area requires constant patrolling. Its a hell of a hard job, like snow making. Its no mystery why people don't want to do it if its just not worth it.


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## So Inclined (Jan 6, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Its a hell of a hard job, like snow making. Its no mystery why people don't want to do it if its just not worth it.



I ski Hunter a lot. I have seen the carnage on Mossy Brook, the terror of overmatched, likely-soused low-intermediate bros on Clair's, and the bloodbath that is Belt Parkway on a Saturday around 2:30 pm. You could not pay me enough to patrol there. Volunteer patrollers there should get some kind of medal, not pushed out the door.
On the other hand, if I were thinking about being a patroller anywhere in this region (I'm not) I'd make a beeline for Platty. Less crowds (including less total yahoos) and (ostensibly, at least) a higher average level of skier? Comparatively speaking, it must be a joy to patrol there.


----------



## kingslug (Jan 6, 2021)

Friend of mine was platty patroller..i hung with him for a day..was pretty cool but long day. He spent 6 months getting all the training needed. Very difficult..someones life is in your hands. Vail is learning now..not to piss on such valuable people


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## JimG. (Jan 6, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Wow.  Not good.  Combined with the issues at Attitash/Wildcat it looks like Vail has a lot of problems on the east coast.


Vail IS the problem on the east coast.

I can't help but laugh at the complete irony if a western corporation that has no business operating in the east is responsible for shutting down skiing in NY.


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## crystalmountainskier (Jan 6, 2021)

Melting down in the PNW too. Lifts rarely open on time any more at the Vail mountain in Washington.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346867865295589376


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## FBGM (Jan 6, 2021)

crystalmountainskier said:


> Melting down in the PNW too. Lifts rarely open on time any more at the Vail mountain in Washington.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346867865295589376


Uhh...you’re complaining about lifts not opening due to AC work? Really? This is the dumbest comment on this thread, and I have made some dumb ones...


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## thetrailboss (Jan 6, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Uhh...you’re complaining about lifts not opening due to AC work? Really? This is the dumbest comment on this thread, and I have made some dumb ones...


Yeah, I agree.  There may be a staffing issue, but delays due to avi work are common and don't rise to the level of dysfunction that people say is happening at some of Vail's eastern resorts.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 6, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Uhh...you’re complaining about lifts not opening due to AC work? Really? This is the dumbest comment on this thread, and I have made some dumb ones...


Entitled skiers are the worst...


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## da-bum (Jan 6, 2021)

No words on the street or local watering hole on whether they are open starting tomorrow?  I took days off for upcoming days and don't want to spend it sitting home if I can help it.


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## RichT (Jan 6, 2021)

They didn't say anything yesterday till around 7, or literally mins after I posted that they haven't said a word! Maybe I can help by posting again?


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## da-bum (Jan 6, 2021)

There are tons of posts on myface on whether they are going to open, but not one response, not even from the rumor spreaders.  Hunter's facespace admin out to lunch in Vail?


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## ScottySkis (Jan 6, 2021)

da-bum said:


> No words on the street or local watering hole on whether they are open starting tomorrow?  I took days off for upcoming days and don't want to spend it sitting home if I can help it.


Ski somewhere else many hills in NY metro area
Like catamount and elk


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## da-bum (Jan 6, 2021)

Looks like they are closed Thur and opening starting friday.  Good thing I took a raincheck on my snow day.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 7, 2021)

Wow.  That is bad.


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## catskillman (Jan 7, 2021)

so i have never received a text or email from Vail about anything.

Today I got a text reminding me that I had a reservation for today !!!  They are closed !!!  because of the COVID "issue". 

What a mess.  Can they be this unorganized (trying to not use the word incompetent.)


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 7, 2021)

I know they say they are going to be open tomorrow, but I'm not sure if I trust them enough to get up early and drive 3 hours wondering the time if they will be open when I get there.


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## da-bum (Jan 7, 2021)

A news site about texas says 2 out of 27 full time ski patrols tested positive.  How come this information is hidden while all these people having a hand account of it being a sickout?









						COVID-19, lack of patrollers shut down Hunter ski resort
					

Skiers across the Northeast were shocked this week to learn that the Hunter Mountain...




					www.beaumontenterprise.com


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## mbedle (Jan 8, 2021)

Ex-Hunter staff blames COVID, cuts - Albany Times Union, 1/7/2021
					






					digital.olivesoftware.com


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 8, 2021)

hopefully someone sent that to Katz...  I have to wonder how much he is in the loop on the eastern happenings.  I can't imagine any CEO not wanting to address this particular issue which shut down a revenue center for several days.

Vail not evening wanting to talk to the paper is also a bad look .  If nothing else give them the same comment they put on social media.


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## andrec10 (Jan 8, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> hopefully someone sent that to Katz...  I have to wonder how much he is in the loop on the eastern happenings.  I can't imagine any CEO not wanting to address this particular issue which shut down a revenue center for several days.
> 
> Vail not evening wanting to talk to the paper is also a bad look .  If nothing else give them the same comment they put on social media.


Does not help that Russ is involved. he just makes it worse!


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## JimG. (Jan 9, 2021)

So not really a COVID issue, the issue is Vail/Fail trying to wring blood from a stone. 

What could be less expensive than offering ski passes and discounted programs to families of volunteer patrollers? So Vail/Fail just doesn't care but expects volunteers to gladly call out from their real jobs to bail Vail/Fail out after screwing them out of benefits?

It takes a special kind of ignorance to be able to justify that line of thinking!


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## icecoast1 (Jan 9, 2021)

JimG. said:


> So not really a COVID issue, the issue is Vail/Fail trying to wring blood from a stone.
> 
> What could be less expensive than offering ski passes and discounted programs to families of volunteer patrollers? So Vail/Fail just doesn't care but expects volunteers to gladly call out from their real jobs to bail Vail/Fail out after screwing them out of benefits?
> 
> It takes a special kind of ignorance to be able to justify that line of thinking!


Its the classic corporate decision made by somebody far far away sitting at a desk that has absolutely no idea the effect it will have on anyone in the real world and only sees it as a way to improve the bottom line


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## kingslug (Jan 9, 2021)

Will be interesting to see how they plan on recruiting more patrollers as time goes by..
And it must be the same far away person who wrote the job posting for ski patroller
"Must have current California EMT certification "
Hmm..


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 9, 2021)

Did anyone ski Hunter today? Have a reservation tomorrow but trying to decide if it’s worth the trip.


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## kingslug (Jan 9, 2021)

What would make it..not worth it?


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 9, 2021)

kingslug said:


> What would make it..not worth it?


Hour+ lift lines, rocks all over the trails (as someone reported on Rip’s Return), etc


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## kingslug (Jan 9, 2021)

Ive been bouncing between hunter and gore every week..never had a bad day yet. Coverage on all trails is very good..those rocks are on a trail on the north side..not a big deal
The north side area is rarely crowded..then the f chair a little more..and the quad..which will be crowded but rarley more than 15 minutes..which is the longest ive ever waited...
Gore is another 2 hours north..less crowded for sure


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 9, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Ive been bouncing between hunter and gore every week..never had a bad day yet. Coverage on all trails is very good..those rocks are on a trail on the north side..not a big deal
> The north side area is rarely crowded..then the f chair a little more..and the quad..which will be crowded but rarley more than 15 minutes..which is the longest ive ever waited...
> Gore is another 2 hours north..less crowded for sure


Yeah, I skied hunter last season and earlier in the season (I live in NYC and have epic).. need to update my location. So I know what the scene there is like.

Thanks though!


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## So Inclined (Jan 9, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Hour+ lift lines, rocks all over the trails (as someone reported on Rip’s Return), etc



Rip's Return is always best avoided anyway. I've never had a satisfying trip down it - it's an icy hassle of a run even when others on the north side (Overlook, primarily) are skiing decently. Least favorite run on the mountain.


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## da-bum (Jan 9, 2021)

Rip seems to be a easy version of Twilight.  It being a fall line run, I see intermediates just bomb down to get break their speed record.  I take it once i a while to break the monotony (or extreme shade) of Overlook when I tried to stay strictly in the north.  But taking it so infrequently, condition changes every time.  If I suddenly find out everything iced up, I could just sraight line the skis and avoid any further skidding.

They way its going, it looks like the are not opening Twilight nor anything on the west for the season.


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## RichT (Jan 10, 2021)

Yesterday they had the "wide shot" camera working at the base for a couple hot minutes.  That shot showed how crowded it was.................oops


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## kingslug (Jan 10, 2021)

It moves though..the 6 is fast.


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 10, 2021)

Hunter is a shit show today. Snow isn’t bad but 25 min lines on the 6 and 10-15 mins on F.


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## abc (Jan 10, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Hunter is a shit show today. Snow isn’t bad but 25 min lines on the 6 and 10-15 mins on F.


That's discouraging. This weekend is "normally" one of the slowest. 25 min line! Wonder what MLK weekend will be like...


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 10, 2021)

abc said:


> That's discouraging. This weekend is "normally" one of the slowest. 25 min line! Wonder what MLK weekend will be like...


Any talk of limited capacity is BS. Parking lots are packed. Even the north lot (where I am) is half full when I’ve never seen more than 30-40 cars there.


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## abc (Jan 10, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Any talk of limited capacity is BS. Parking lots are packed. Even the north lot (where I am) is half full when I’ve never seen more than 30-40 cars there.


NY state allows them to operate at 75% of their "peak capacity". So that's not surprising that, if they're "at capacity", it would have a longer lift line than the worst holiday weekend! (due to lower lift fill factor). The full parking lot is actually to be expected as people aren't carpooling. 

What's surprising is people are coming to ski on all dates!


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## kingslug (Jan 10, 2021)

Oy..well conditions are good so more people are showing up..
Bell and platt are an alternative but do not have anywhere near the terrain.


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## Zermatt (Jan 10, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Oy..well conditions are good so more people are showing up..
> Bell and platt are an alternative but do not have anywhere near the terrain.


If conditions in the Catskills were good today I don't want to ski anymore.


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## andrec10 (Jan 10, 2021)

WTF is up with the snowmaking on Claires? Only the top 1/4 is being made. Vail is turning this place into a clusterfuck...


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## kingslug (Jan 10, 2021)

Ah..come on..im just happy places are open and they all recovered from the...event...
Beats staying home
Guess they are staging the run..at least they started blowing on it..happy about that..we all thought it was a goner this season..


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## catskillman (Jan 10, 2021)

any one notice that very few ski instructors at Hunter were wearing a mask covering their nose yesterday?  I would say about 85% at least !  These were seasonal group instructors - they were on the lift early and with groups of kids.  Most of the instructors are kids themselves !


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## catskillman (Jan 10, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Any talk of limited capacity is BS. Parking lots are packed. Even the north lot (where I am) is half full when I’ve never seen more than 30-40 cars there.so true - i left yesterday at noon - there was still 100 people in line to get tickets..  I understand they need to pay the bills but what about the law and Vail being so big on safety?


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## abc (Jan 10, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Bell and platt are an alternative but do not have anywhere near the terrain.


What terrain? 

Without the west side, Hunter is no better than Platty. Not that much better than Bell even.


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## cdskier (Jan 11, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Oy..well conditions are good so more people are showing up..
> Bell and platt are an alternative but do not have anywhere near the terrain.



I'd take Platty (and even Bell) over Hunter in a heartbeat... Personally I always found Platty's (and even Bell's) terrain more interesting than Hunter's. Sure Hunter has some nice steeps...but I couldn't justify just that aspect to deal with the extra crowds. Platty and Bell also both tend to get more natural snow (especially Platty).

If I wasn't a condo owner at SB...I could easily see myself getting the NY Ski-3 pass to have Belleayre and Gore as my "main" mountains. Gore has some outstanding terrain. Then throw in a trip here and there to WF and that's a great combo.


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## kingslug (Jan 11, 2021)

I got the ski 3 card for just that reason..cant ski hunter all the time this season.


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## ScottySkis (Jan 11, 2021)

kingslug said:


> I got the ski 3 card for just that reason..cant ski hunter all the time this season.


U should check out patty with u grreat friend this year they definitely need the money
And they just did replaced the snow making pumps that was old


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## kingslug (Jan 11, 2021)

Going to hit it soon..bell too


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## JimG. (Jan 11, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Oy..well conditions are good so more people are showing up..
> Bell and platt are an alternative but do not have anywhere near the terrain.


Not true!

I skied Platty yesterday and it was legitimately 100% skiable. I skied every run on the double side and many on the triple side as well.
Missed out on the 8" powder day on Friday skiing at Gore (which was also very good).


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## raisingarizona (Jan 12, 2021)

There’s a lot better fall line, tree skiing at Platty than Hunter if I remember correctly. Hunter is pretty covered in boulders isn’t it?

and those fences, ugh..... it’s not a very pretty place to ski at.

Plattekill is the perfect powder day ski hill. It’s pitch is just right and consistent. It’s simple and everything comes back to the same spot. The lift right from the bottom is the lift you want to lap. I love that.

it’s also just a bit farther and off most of the tri state folks radar. All of this, is what makes it awesome.


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## kingslug (Jan 13, 2021)

Hunter did try to create glades on the north side..but it pretty much hasnt worked.


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## ScottySkis (Jan 13, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Hunter did try to create glades on the north side..but it pretty much hasnt worked.


They need more natural snow then they get for that too happens


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## kingslug (Jan 13, 2021)

A lot of natural snow....


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## kendo (Jan 22, 2021)

today's report says "Snowmaking continued last night on Hunter East, the Main Face, and *Hunter West*".   Same as past few days.   

Any snowmaking on Anna or only Clair's/Taylor?   What's left to open Clair's?   Think they've been working on it all week.


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## kingslug (Jan 22, 2021)

Takes a lot to open it. Hopefully they do..at least it looks like they are trying.


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## andrec10 (Jan 22, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Takes a lot to open it. Hopefully they do..at least it looks like they are trying.


It has never taken this long. Lack of staff and poor management! I have seen them open it in 2 days. This is absurd.


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## kingslug (Jan 22, 2021)

Well..there is that...


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## kendo (Jan 22, 2021)

Zephyr was listed as opening at 9:30 today in the am report.  FB commenter noted it didn't run all day.  My guess is no lift ops available.

Job Fair at Hunter (and many other VR properties) last Tues and next Mon.  38 openings at Hunter including Lift ops.


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## kendo (Jan 22, 2021)

someone else on FB posted 'Friday 10:30 am and not a gun firing anywhere' ... with a pic of a rough looking Clairs.  

With this weather, there should be a pre-president's blizzard going 24/7.  Guess that theory's not in the MBA playbook.


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## kingslug (Jan 22, 2021)

Oh well...


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 25, 2021)

Hunter from the Blackhead range.  Top of Blackhead mountain Sunday morning.


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## catskillman (Feb 7, 2021)

so today was sold out for weeks.  (Sunday)  Last night passholders could not make a reservation, however, if you went to the mountain site you could buy a lift ticket !!   That is not right since the passholder should have a lift ticket when they want it. 

Hmmmmmmm


This morning, passholders could make a reservation and you could buy a lift ticket for today.


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## JimG. (Feb 7, 2021)

catskillman said:


> so today was sold out for weeks.  (Sunday)  Last night passholders could not make a reservation, however, if you went to the mountain site you could buy a lift ticket !!   That is not right since the passholder should have a lift ticket when they want it.
> 
> Hmmmmmmm
> 
> ...


Sounds like they're limiting passholder skiing by making reservations unavailable to passholders but allowing them to spend additional money to get a day pass. 

So there really is no such thing as a "season passholder" at Epic resorts anymore.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Feb 7, 2021)

Maybe some people cancelled and slots opened up


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## catskillman (Feb 7, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Maybe some people cancelled and slots opened up


this was simutasluly.  And I inquired about the issue of a management employee and he told me there is a limited # for passholders, day sales and some are held for lessons and "others"
no other valil resorts are sold out if you check........


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## da-bum (Mar 2, 2021)

I haven't been up to Hunter for a few weeks due to work related training and avoiding the Prez week crowd.  I seem to have missed the most optimal time of the season. Looking to go very soon, but looking at the status of the mountain, the North and West are closed, along with the Flyer.  I didn't think the wind was that strong, but apparently it is strong enough for them to shut it down.  Thur/Fri seem to have the same wind condition, you think that would be a slow F-lift day?

Also, are the North and West closed for the season?  I don't see any reason for the North to close so early, or even today, especially when the Flyer is shut down and it being the perfect place for people to escape to.


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## kingslug (Mar 2, 2021)

Prolly frozen..its cold round those parts.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 3, 2021)

da-bum said:


> I haven't been up to Hunter for a few weeks due to work related training and avoiding the Prez week crowd.  I seem to have missed the most optimal time of the season. Looking to go very soon, but looking at the status of the mountain, the North and West are closed, along with the Flyer.  I didn't think the wind was that strong, but apparently it is strong enough for them to shut it down.  Thur/Fri seem to have the same wind condition, you think that would be a slow F-lift day?
> 
> Also, are the North and West closed for the season?  I don't see any reason for the North to close so early, or even today, especially when the Flyer is shut down and it being the perfect place for people to escape to.


North and enough of West to use the lift open today


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## beyond.the.lodge (Mar 3, 2021)

North is open, but it lost power yesterday, which is why it didn't open


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## da-bum (Mar 3, 2021)

Comments out there say the trails are like boiler plate.  Hope that is not the case in the next few days.


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## kingslug (Mar 4, 2021)

Not getting warm so I doubt they will change. Monday shows a warmup.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 4, 2021)

Guess we can see what their groomers can do with ice. Gonna give it a try Sat and maybe stick around for Sun. Not too many skiing weekends left. May see if I can get a 1 day turn around sharpening the edges locally.


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## kingslug (Mar 4, 2021)

I was going to get my bindings swapped on to the new skis sat at The Pro in Hunter..not ski..then drive back up and ski sun...but...i'm friggin tired. Hitting Utah next week so maybe its time for a weekend break.


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## da-bum (Mar 5, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Guess we can see what their groomers can do with ice. Gonna give it a try Sat and maybe stick around for Sun. Not too many skiing weekends left. May see if I can get a 1 day turn around sharpening the edges locally.


Was there on Thur.  The main mountain was mostly ice covered by some frozen corduroy, which got softened up and scraped off later.  Strangely, lower Racers, Eisenhower and Gun Hill felt like hard packed.  Not sure if it is because when those trails were groomed at different times compared to the others.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 5, 2021)

da-bum said:


> Was there on Thur.  The main mountain was mostly ice covered by some frozen corduroy, which got softened up and scraped off later.  Strangely, lower Racers, Eisenhower and Gun Hill felt like hard packed.  Not sure if it is because when those trails were groomed at different times compared to the others.


Thanks for the report. Got my edges done yesterday - $15 while I waited at Ski Barn - so I will be in as good shape as possible to give it a go. Sounds like it will be a good day to not turn a whole lot. Won't book my Sat Nt hotel til I see how it skis Sat.


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## Funky_Catskills (Mar 8, 2021)

beyond.the.lodge said:


> North is open, but it lost power yesterday, which is why it didn't open


I'm on the same circuit as North/West Hunter.We lost power from like 2AM until the next day around noon or so.   It was pretty bad, the wind was gusting hard and the temps were below 0 wind chill.. I've live in my house for over 15 years and never had a frozen pipe until that day..  sucked...


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 8, 2021)

Hunter skied fine the last 2 days. Sunday better than Saturday. Sat was 1-3" of loose surface over icy base, scraped down to base in places. Sun was a well adhering hard pack surface with 1/2" carve-able on top.

It's not Utah or even the fresh Eastern snow we had much of this season, but it was about at a typical Hunter level. Crowds weren't bad this weekend away from Flyer either. Beat my personal best getting in 24k vert yesterday.


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## da-bum (Apr 1, 2021)

Going one last day tomorrow.  I see the number of open trails count dwindle everyday.  The main mountain is basically down to what it was like on opening day.  I hope the condition on that one remaining run is at least decent, instead of a 10 ft wide path with rocks spewn all over the place.


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## catskillman (Apr 4, 2021)

da-bum said:


> Going one last day tomorrow.  I see the number of open trails count dwindle everyday.  The main mountain is basically down to what it was like on opening day.  I hope the condition on that one remaining run is at least decent, instead of a 10 ft wide path with rocks spewn all over the place.


It has actually been pretty good, no bumps left however.  

Yesterday large unmasked crowd (40+ people) smoking pot on the Copper Tree Deck - including one of the groomers !  Totally stoned, which explains some of the missteps this season.  Find it hard to believe that given COVID and everything that he would share a joint with others


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## Funky_Catskills (Apr 5, 2021)

catskillman said:


> It has actually been pretty good, no bumps left however.
> 
> Yesterday large unmasked crowd (40+ people) smoking pot on the Copper Tree Deck - including one of the groomers !  Totally stoned, which explains some of the missteps this season.  Find it hard to believe that given COVID and everything that he would share a joint with others


Snitch


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## 180 (Apr 5, 2021)

really!


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## catskillman (Apr 9, 2021)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Snitch


seriously ?  There was not a person there that could not know what was going on.  You could smell it at the 6 pack.  and the music drew attention to it.  

Not a Vail target crowd so maybe the rumors that they want to sell are true.  But Hunter can't possibly #1 on that list of mtns they want to divest.  Intel says Wildcat is #1.


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## PAabe (Apr 9, 2021)

What why would Vail ever want to divest Hunter?  It is day trip-able from NJ and NYC and the most major resort by pretty much any measure south of Mt Snow.  Isn't the whole point of epic to gobble up feeder hills near big markets and sell the pass for the destination mountains - and Hunter pretty much falls into both of those categories.  Ikon and ORDA both have a Catskills mountain and Indy has Catamount and Jack Frost certainly does not have the capacity for all the epic pass holders in the tri state area


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## kingslug (Apr 10, 2021)

Hunter is a gold mine...


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## da-bum (Apr 11, 2021)

Went on Fri the 2nd.  I guess I didn't get the memo that it was a holiday since the mountain was packed (for April) with family and their little kids.  Not use to skiing where there are a bunch of people grouped together on the slopes this year, given that I have been skiing the North much of this year due to the long lift lines at the Flyer.

There was so many parts of the trail where it gets pretty narrow due to extremely large bare spots that they don't bother covering up, and somehow it seems to be a gather place for people.  But snow condition was good, everything froze up.

And it seems Hunter closed one day early.  I guess nobody was going to show up on a rainy day.


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## catskillman (Apr 11, 2021)

da-bum said:


> Went on Fri the 2nd.  I guess I didn't get the memo that it was a holiday since the mountain was packed (for April) with family and their little kids.  Not use to skiing where there are a bunch of people grouped together on the slopes this year, given that I have been skiing the North much of this year due to the long lift lines at the Flyer.
> 
> There was so many parts of the trail where it gets pretty narrow due to extremely large bare spots that they don't bother covering up, and somehow it seems to be a gather place for people.  But snow condition was good, everything froze up.
> 
> And it seems Hunter closed one day early.  I guess nobody was going to show up on a rainy day.


As of 6:09 pm we have not got a drop of rain in Hunter today.  !!!  All outdoor dining was full all afternoon in town......


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 13, 2021)

PAabe said:


> What why would Vail ever want to divest Hunter?  It is day trip-able from NJ and NYC and the most major resort by pretty much any measure south of Mt Snow.  Isn't the whole point of epic to gobble up feeder hills near big markets and sell the pass for the destination mountains - and Hunter pretty much falls into both of those categories.  Ikon and ORDA both have a Catskills mountain and Indy has Catamount and Jack Frost certainly does not have the capacity for all the epic pass holders in the tri state area



I agree Hunter does not look like a place they would want to divest.  To your point they want to create western travel  The number of skier visits at Hunter far out weigh skier visits at Wildcat.


----------

