# Stratton Mt Ski Theft



## kartski (Dec 24, 2011)

They got the Bastard:

"After searching the resort for several hours, Winhall police located (redacted) 2008 Mercedes Benz ML350. After obtaining a warrant, officers found multiple pairs of stolen skis and other equipment. "

Must have been poverty stricken driving a 4 year old Benz.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 24, 2011)

A recurring theme in many larger areas...one guy who strikes and takes multiple skis.  Lock them up, especially on holidays and vacation times.


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## jaja111 (Dec 24, 2011)

What a pile of crap. Stealing skis and driving away in a $30k SUV. Unbelievable.


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 24, 2011)

Glad they caught the creep


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## Rikka (Dec 24, 2011)

Warp Daddy said:


> Glad they caught the creep



+1


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## abc (Dec 24, 2011)

According to the article, he had prior record of the same:



> Court documents indicate (redacted) has previous convictions in New York, including criminal possession of stolen property, possession of a stolen credit card, petit larceny and a first-degree defrauding charge.


How many times he was NOT caught, the take might have help his purchase of the Benz?


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## vdk03 (Dec 24, 2011)

What a piece of SH%T, IMO a thief like this should get his ass kicked by the victims. As much as I dislike the Winhall police dept, I take my hat off to them for this one. I hope he gets the full 10 years.


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## photogame (Dec 25, 2011)

Well to start,  Hi everyone.  newbie to give his 2 cents.

I think the best outcome of this would be to have a 2008 Benz confiscated and become the PD's property due to its involvement in the crime.  OUCH!!!  10 years in jail would be great too, but after seeing how the justice system works, I doubt it.


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## Matt2012 (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't know what it is with security at Stratton.  My friends and I went to Stratton yesterday.  While we went in for lunch, some bastard took my snowboard and my friends skis were taken as well.   

Meanwhile My friends are in law enforcement.  The suspect blamed for stuff at Stratton ( mentioned above), was vindicated completely - they had the wrong guy altogether.  -- Talk about a lawsuit and a half.  He does not even own a Mercedes and resides in NYC.    Shows you can't believe everything that's printed in a newspaper or online.


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## carbonXshell (Dec 25, 2011)

Matt2012 said:


> I don't know what it is with security at Stratton.  My friends and I went to Stratton yesterday.  While we went in for lunch, some bastard took my snowboard and my friends skis were taken as well.



I've seen rent a cops from time to time hanging around, usually on the inside but seriously, how are they suppose to identify a thief amongst 100's and 100's of skiers and boarders.


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## carbonXshell (Dec 25, 2011)

A better approach might be some signs indicating the area is under video surveillance.

Free ski checks would help a little too... as would locks.


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## carbonXshell (Dec 25, 2011)

uphillklimber said:


> how about we get some israeli training for them, helping to identify the actions and nuances of thieves. Of course, anyone with this training would command top dollar.....



for sure... lol


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## Bene288 (Dec 27, 2011)

Video security cameras have gotten so cheap now. I'm surprised mountains haven't utilized them yet. Maybe they have but I've never seen any out looking onto the ski racks.


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## riverc0il (Dec 27, 2011)

A better idea would be just lock your skis and take some personal responsibility for your possessions instead of wanting the ski areas to jack up prices so they can hire security detail and install a pricy CCTV system (they are not cheap).

I hope the guy that got caught gets the book thrown at him. But that doesn't excuse victims for allowing themselves to be victimized and then blaming the ski areas. Cable locks cost ten bucks and last forever.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> A better idea would be just lock your skis and take some personal responsibility for your possessions instead of wanting the ski areas to jack up prices so they can hire security detail and install a pricy CCTV system (they are not cheap).
> 
> I hope the guy that got caught gets the book thrown at him. But that doesn't excuse victims for allowing themselves to be victimized and then blaming the ski areas. Cable locks cost ten bucks and last forever.



this

I lock my gear and have zero expectations of the resorts I frequent to have security outside the lodges or video surveillance.  Seems like a completely unnecessary expense that surely will just get passed on to the customer.


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## skidmarks (Dec 27, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> A better idea would be just lock your skis and take some personal responsibility for your possessions instead of wanting the ski areas to jack up prices so they can hire security detail and install a pricy CCTV system (they are not cheap).
> 
> I hope the guy that got caught gets the book thrown at him. But that doesn't excuse victims for allowing themselves to be victimized and then blaming the ski areas. Cable locks cost ten bucks and last forever.



+1

Note to self: Order ski locks, we're out of stock on them!


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## mlkrgr (Dec 27, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> this
> 
> I lock my gear and have zero expectations of the resorts I frequent to have security outside the lodges or video surveillance.  Seems like a completely unnecessary expense that surely will just get passed on to the customer.



Agreed; I have a ski lock and I still lock my skis even if I stop at something like the midmountain lodge at Stratton as only skiers/snowboarders that are ticketed can use, I still lock it after I had a guy that grabbed my skis out of the k1 gondola at the top. I'm sure it was an accident as his skis were still in the holder. Still, you never know what kind of !@#$ people will try to pull. Any security costs will definitely get passed onto us.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2011)

Bene288 said:


> Video security cameras have gotten so cheap now. I'm surprised mountains haven't utilized them yet. Maybe they have but I've never seen any out looking onto the ski racks.



Still though, how usefull would they really be??  I mean its not exactly difficult to look like a skier/rider leaving the mountain carrying a pair or 2 of skis and/or a board and blend right in with all the other *LEGIT* skiers/riders leaving the mountain carrying a pair or 2 of skis and/or a board.  Car in the loading area, quick walk in, walk around the racks looking for where you left "your" pair(s) of skis/board, grab them, back to the loading area and out of there.  If you've got another person or two waiting in the car, looks even more legit to any security folks the ski area may have. 

Until folks either get serious about using a lock all the time or using a ski check service this is going to happen.  That's the unfortunate reality of the situation


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## mlkrgr (Dec 27, 2011)

drjeff said:


> Still though, how usefull would they really be??  I mean its not exactly difficult to look like a skier/rider leaving the mountain carrying a pair or 2 of skis and/or a board and blend right in with all the other *LEGIT* skiers/riders leaving the mountain carrying a pair or 2 of skis and/or a board.  Car in the loading area, quick walk in, walk around the racks looking for where you left "your" pair(s) of skis/board, grab them, back to the loading area and out of there.  If you've got another person or two waiting in the car, looks even more legit to any security folks the ski area may have.
> 
> Until folks either get serious about using a lock all the time or using a ski check service this is going to happen.  That's the unfortunate reality of the situation



Agreed; that's why I question how effective security staff will be watching the racks on the weekend. There's no way that a security guy can put a face to every pair of skis on the rack on a weekend/holiday; possibly on a weekday but would resorts really justify the expense? I don't think so.


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## Bene288 (Dec 27, 2011)

My skis are locked every time, but do you know how easy it is to get a pair or bolt cutters or electrical dykes that cut through any ski lock? Especially a cable lock. I've had my equipment cut off, have you? What happens then? If I pay 90$ to ski for one day and my lock gets clipped I'm going to be pointing fingers at someone. If I pay that kind of money I expect some sense of security (if I lock my equipment up) It cost me about 150$ to put cameras around my shop and property. You don't need a fancy system. Granted a resort is quite a bit bigger than my shop,  it's still pocket change to a ski resort. Point them to main rack that gets the most traffic and put stickers up everywhere. That would bring theft to a grinding halt. Even fake cameras would work. When equipment is stolen it's not like it doesn't cost the mountain any money. They have to pay someone to run an investigation and coordinate with police. It's still coming back to you regardless.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2011)

Bene288 said:


> My skis are locked every time, but do you know how easy it is to get a pair or bolt cutters or electrical dykes that cut through any ski lock? Especially a cable lock. I've had my equipment cut off, have you? What happens then? If I pay 90$ to ski for one day and my lock gets clipped I'm going to be pointing fingers at someone. If I pay that kind of money I expect some sense of security (if I lock my equipment up) It cost me about 150$ to put cameras around my shop and property. You don't need a fancy system. Granted a resort is quite a bit bigger than my shop,  it's still pocket change to a ski resort. Point them to main rack that gets the most traffic and put stickers up everywhere. That would bring theft to a grinding halt. Even fake cameras would work. When equipment is stolen it's not like it doesn't cost the mountain any money. They have to pay someone to run an investigation and coordinate with police. It's still coming back to you regardless.



If you have a lock on your gear, well then the reality is that to a potential a$$hole theaf,  you're gear is far less attractive than unlocked gear.  Heck, I think that we can all agree that a pair of bolt cutters is far more likely to arose some suspicision from someone in the area than the casual look through the racks to find out which of the 1/2 dozen or racks a person left there gear on as they were headed for the lodge 15 minutes before.

Also, if you're talking an area like Stratton in this thread.  On a busy weekend, you've got THOUSANDS of pairs of skis and/or board in the base area and all the people associated with them.  Not as easy to get a good view of everyone via security cameras by any means.  

In an ideal set up, every ski area would have no ski racks available and an ample sized free ski check at every base/mid mountain/summit lodge.  But even then you'd still find people not using it and some gear would more than likely still be stolen.  The key things are to #1 be very dilligent with making sure that your gear is always more secure than someone elses gear for starters.  And to another extent, try and NOT leave your gear on a rack that is closest to a main exit point.  Atleast that way any potential a$$hole will more than likely have to walk by plenty more "opportunities" before they get a glimpse of your gear


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## hammer (Dec 27, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> A better idea would be just lock your skis and  take some personal responsibility for your possessions instead of  wanting the ski areas to jack up prices so they can hire security detail  and install a pricy CCTV system (they are not cheap).
> 
> I hope the guy that got caught gets the book thrown at him. But that  doesn't excuse victims for allowing themselves to be victimized and then  blaming the ski areas. Cable locks cost ten bucks and last  forever.


Agree...I had skis stolen and I never blamed the ski  area.  Didn't like the attitude of the rental shop (thought that they  could have mentioned about problems with theft out of courtesy to their  customers) but I didn't blame them either.  Just took the risk to leaving them out made myself an easier target.



Bene288 said:


> My skis are locked every time, but do you know how easy it is to get a pair or bolt cutters or electrical dykes that cut through any ski lock? Especially a cable lock. I've had my equipment cut off, have you? What happens then? If I pay 90$ to ski for one day and my lock gets clipped I'm going to be pointing fingers at someone. If I pay that kind of money I expect some sense of security (if I lock my equipment up) It cost me about 150$ to put cameras around my shop and property. You don't need a fancy system. Granted a resort is quite a bit bigger than my shop,  it's still pocket change to a ski resort. Point them to main rack that gets the most traffic and put stickers up everywhere. That would bring theft to a grinding halt. Even fake cameras would work. When equipment is stolen it's not like it doesn't cost the mountain any money. They have to pay someone to run an investigation and coordinate with police. It's still coming back to you regardless.


What would cameras really do?  PCMR had plenty of them around and it didn't deter the jerk who stole my skis...


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## catskills (Dec 27, 2011)

I always park my skis where I can watch them from the lodge.  Go ahead grab my skis and see what happens.  :uzi:


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2011)

catskills said:


> I always park my skis where I can watch them from the lodge.  Go ahead grab my skis and see what happens.  :uzi:



Hope you didn't just jinx yourself the next time you're sitting in the lodge and nature calls you away from your seat in the lodge for a few moments


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## snoseek (Dec 27, 2011)

Boltcutters, another reason to split your skis up right? I'm not talking a couple racks over but really split them up. 

Seriously, Skis are expensive! It's not anyones responsibility to keep an eye on your stuff. If the mtn puts up a camera then great but lets face it, they're working with a very very thin profit margin. It will be reflected in the prices along with all these other amenities that everyone is constantly demanding. I'm personally a big fan of less services (except snowmaking of course) and lower prices. 

it's just a matter of a little more walking really. Wat to be really safe then lock one ski and still split them. You are 100 percent. This all requires extra walking....im pretty sure most are too lazy, they would rather leave a 500-1000 dollar item on a rack for a thieve to take and then ask why the mtn didn't do more.
My stuff will never be stolen...


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## riverc0il (Dec 27, 2011)

Thieves aren't going to be bothered with cutting cables. Yes, they could do that if they really wanted a particular ski. But why risk the extra visibility? They want to blend in and look like everyone else. Just another guy grabbing his skis off the rack. Especially if they keep coming back, someone is eventually going to notice and report someone clipping cables. It just isn't worth the risk when they can grab almost any other skis off the rack.


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## abc (Dec 27, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> *Thieves aren't going to be bothered with cutting cables.* Yes, they could do that if they really wanted a particular ski. But why risk the extra visibility? They want to blend in and look like everyone else. Just another guy grabbing his skis off the rack. Especially if they keep coming back, someone is eventually going to notice and report someone clipping cables. It just isn't worth the risk when they can grab almost any other skis off the rack.





Bene288 said:


> *I've had my equipment cut off, have you? *What happens then? If I pay 90$ to ski for one day and my lock gets clipped I'm going to be pointing fingers at someone. If I pay that kind of money I expect some sense of security (if I lock my equipment up)


.


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## Bene288 (Dec 27, 2011)

Cameras will absolutely work as a deterrent, even if they were fake. If they ever caught someone using a camera system and it got out in the news people would rethink lifting a pair of skis. Am I saying it's going to prevent every single theft? No, not in a long shot. But if all you need is one goon to read about someone getting caught, or seeing a "CAUTION: Surveillance cameras in use" sticker, that's one less pair stolen. 

A thief might target skis with a cable lock. Two main reasons: A) The person whose skis are locked are probably not watching them like a hawk. B) Locked skis are generally much more expensive. But if I were walking around looking to lift a pair of skis, and I saw just one camera ANYWHERE on that mountain, a sticker stating cameras are in use, anyone remotely "official" looking.. I would not be taking anything.  

My skis were almost stolen mid week when there was hardly anyone there. Some of these thieves are smart. They're not as dumb as some people make them out to be. If you aren't going to support extra security at a mountain then that's fine. But when you walk to the rack and find your 3/16th inch steel cable lock cut and half on the ground and your $900 skis gone. I'm sure you will change your mind. There is no reason anyone should ever have ANYTHING stolen from them. But I believe after a certain point of doing all you can to protect your equipment, and it still gets stolen, something needs to be done. I keep the mountains in business, they should offer a little bit of assurance.

On a more positive note; if anyone is doubting their cable locks after this whole discussion, I recommend using a U-Lock bicycle lock. 5/8" solid steel cannot be cut by bolt cutters or dykes. Any thief that would want my skis now would need a cutting torch, which definitely does not fit in a ski jacket pocket. Or 10 minutes of going at it with a hack saw. I wrapped foam tape around it so it doesn't damage the skis, it's a pretty good set up. Only con is that it's a little clunkier than a cable lock.


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## kartski (Dec 27, 2011)

snoseek said:


> Boltcutters, another reason to split your skis up right? I'm not talking a couple racks over but really split them up.



Forget bolt cutters, they're to big. A small pipe cutter for 1/4" pipe. Fits in your hand, it would look like you're working the combo on the lock. Twist and tighten til the cable breaks.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2011)

Bene288 said:


> Cameras will absolutely work as a deterrent, even if they were fake. If they ever caught someone using a camera system and it got out in the news people would rethink lifting a pair of skis. Am I saying it's going to prevent every single theft? No, not in a long shot. But if all you need is one goon to read about someone getting caught, or seeing a "CAUTION: Surveillance cameras in use" sticker, that's one less pair stolen.
> 
> A thief might target skis with a cable lock. Two main reasons: A) The person whose skis are locked are probably not watching them like a hawk. B) Locked skis are generally much more expensive. But if I were walking around looking to lift a pair of skis, and I saw just one camera ANYWHERE on that mountain, a sticker stating cameras are in use, anyone remotely "official" looking.. I would not be taking anything.
> 
> ...



I just don't think that security ski rack cameras will be the end all. be all.  Below is the base area cam image from Mount Snow from a few minutes ago







There's 6 racks in that photo.  To make it proof "beyond any reasonable doubt" you'd need to have some pretty good resolution cameras focused on each side of each rack from multiple angles to ensure that you can indeed get an image that would legally hold up (if you then are even able to catch the a$$hole that took the gear in the 1st place!!).  Not that it CAN'T be done,  but not quite sure what the perceived return on the investment would be, given the typical number of ski racks that your average ski area has


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## hammer (Dec 27, 2011)

If a ski area offers equipment checks (for free!) then isn't that enough?

I use a cable lock because it's the easiest _*deterrent*_.  If I was really worried about determined thieves then I'd use the equipment check.  If I was worried that a cable lock would not be sufficient and no equipment check was available, I'd avoid going to that ski area.  Problem solved.


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## gmcunni (Dec 27, 2011)

i think i'm going to buy a 2nd lock, split my skis and lock them to different racks.


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## 〽❄❅ (Dec 27, 2011)

I like the bicycle U lock idea. I'll get one for my next out of town ski trip, any brand/model recommendations? Of the two local hill's i frequent one offers a free ski check and the other is so uncrowded on the weekdays when i go that i just leave them in the line of sight from a window.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> i think i'm going to buy a 2nd lock, split my skis and lock them to different racks.



you should buy a third.  just in case someone steals one of your unused locks attached to the ski racks


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## 〽❄❅ (Dec 27, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> you should buy a third.  just in case someone steals one of your unused locks attached to the ski racks


...that's perfect, he can thread the cable up through his shell's sleeve, out the neck and back down to the lock, don't forget to throw in a little blue LED blinky light by the lock for the full effect:flag:


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## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2011)

there's a bit of a back story to my suggestion.  I'll let gmcunni explain


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## gmcunni (Dec 27, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> there's a bit of a back story to my suggestion.  I'll let gmcunni explain



it isn't as funny when you have to explain it


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## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> it isn't as funny when you have to explain it



I don't know.  Having a $10 ski lock stolen is pretty funny :lol:


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## gmcunni (Dec 27, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I don't know.  Having a $10 ski lock stolen is pretty funny :lol:



seriously, what form of degenerate steals a lock?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2011)

a locksmith trying to hone his skills?


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## mister moose (Dec 27, 2011)

drjeff said:


> I just don't think that security ski rack cameras will be the end all. be all.  Below is the base area cam image from Mount Snow from a few minutes ago
> 
> There's 6 racks in that photo.  To make it proof "beyond any reasonable doubt" you'd need to have some pretty good resolution cameras focused on each side of each rack from multiple angles to ensure that you can indeed get an image that would legally hold up (if you then are even able to catch the a$$hole that took the gear in the 1st place!!).  Not that it CAN'T be done,  but not quite sure what the perceived return on the investment would be, given the typical number of ski racks that your average ski area has



You're thinking about identifying only from the camera footage.  The value there is to back up an eyewitness, which would take it to the level of burden of proof; video + witness = conviction.


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## 〽❄❅ (Dec 27, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I don't know.  Having a $10 ski lock stolen is pretty funny :lol:


next time he will take the key with him:wink:


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## gmcunni (Dec 27, 2011)

when i split my skis, i will pair 1 up with a buddy i'm skiing with and then use my cable lock


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## bigbog (Dec 28, 2011)

hammer said:


> If a ski area offers equipment checks (for free!) then isn't that enough?
> 
> I use a cable lock because it's the easiest _*deterrent*_.  If I was really worried about determined thieves then I'd use the equipment check.  If I was worried that a cable lock would not be sufficient and no equipment check was available, I'd avoid going to that ski area.  Problem solved.



SundayRiver's Ski Check ($2 or $3...?) at SouthRidge is _the_ thing....well worth it.  I too like the bicycle lock(~5/8" cable)...does a pretty good job.  Complain about $2-3 after what one has shelled out for either a Pass or Ticket....:???:


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2011)

mister moose said:


> You're thinking about identifying only from the camera footage.  The value there is to back up an eyewitness, which would take it to the level of burden of proof; video + witness = conviction.


You're then presuming that there will always be an eye witness who notices say that average build guy in a blue ski coat wearing a ski hat carrying 2 pairs of skis and a gear bag in the base area on any given day


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## Smellytele (Dec 28, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> when i split my skis, i will pair 1 up with a buddy i'm skiing with and then use my cable lock



looks pretty bulky to carry around


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## Black Phantom (Dec 28, 2011)




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## SIKSKIER (Dec 28, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> looks pretty bulky to carry around



I would assume he leaves that setup on the rack whick does limit where you leave them.I really liked the lock system from Ski Key http://www.skikey.com/ .I dont see that many racks any more but I still have my lock.I bought it at Cannon many moons ago and just happened to have it in my pocket on a trip to Whistler.At the Peak Lodge I noticed the same aluminum racks that fit my lock.No cables to cut or chain to saw.I'm sure a crowbar could bend it enough to steal them but would you really think one would bring one to the racks?The lock is very small (1x11/2x2).I really liked everything about this system.There is quite a list of resorts that carry these racks but I'm sure finding that rack is not always an option.
■ALPINE VALLEY,MI
■ALYESKA RESORT,AK
■ANGELFIRE,NM
■BELLEAYRE MOUNTAIN,NY
■BIG BEAR,PA
■BLUE MOUNTAIN,PA
■BRADFORD,MA
■BRIGHTON SKI RESORT,UT
■BRISTOL MTN,NY
■BROMLEY,VT
■BRUNDAGE,ID
■CAMELBACK,PA
■CATAMOUNT SKI CENTER,NY
■CHESTNUT MOUNTAIN RESORT,IL
■CHRISTMAS MOUNTAIN VILLAGE,WI
■COPPER MOUNTAIN,CO
■DARTMOUNTH SKYWAYS,NH
■DEVIL'S HEAD,WI
■DRY HILL SKI AREA,NY
■ELK MOUNTAIN,PA
■GORE MOUNTAIN,NY
■GREEK PEAK RESORT,NY
■HIDDEN VALLEY,PA
■HOLIDAY VALLEY RESORT,NY
 ■HUNTER MOUNTAIN,NY
■JAY PEAK SKI AREA,VT
■JIMINY PEAK,MA
■KISSING BRIDGE,NY
■LABRADOR MOUNTAIN,NY
■LOON MOUNTAIN,NH
■LOST VALLEY,NH
■MCINTYRE SKI AREA,NH
■MOHAWK,CT
■MONARCH,CO
■MOUNT CRANMORE,NH
■MOUNT SUNAPEE,NH
■MOUNTAIN CREEK,NJ
■MOUNTAIN HIGH,CA
■MT ROSE,CA NASHOBA
■VALLEY,MA
■OKEMO,VT
■PAOLI PEAKS,IN
■PLATTEKILL,NY
■PEEK'N PEAK RESORT,NY
■RAGGED MOUNTAIN,NH
■SEVEN SPRINGS,PA
■SKI LIBERTY,PA
■SKI ROUNDTOP,PA
 ■SKI SHAWNEE,PA
■SMUGGLERS NOTCH RESORT,VT
■SNO MOUNTAIN,PA
■SNOW CREEK SKI AREA,MO
■STEVENS PASS,WA
■SUGARBUSH, VT
■SUNDAY RIVER,ME
■SWAIN,NY
■TELLURIDE,CO
■TENNEY MOUNTAIN,NH
■TETON PASS SKI AREA,MT
■THE CANYONS,UT
■THE SUMMIT AT SNOQUALMIE,WA
■THUNDER RIDGE,NY
■TYROL BASIN,WI
■TOGGENBERG SKI CENTRE,NY
■VAIL,CO
■WACHUSETT MTN,MA
■WATERVILLE VALLEY,NH
■WEST MOUNTAIN,NY
■WILLARD MOUNTAIN,NY
■WINDHAM,NY
■WINTERPARK,CO
■WOLF RIDGE,NC
■WHITEFACE MTN,NY


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## marcski (Dec 28, 2011)

We need snow bad!!!!


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## mister moose (Dec 28, 2011)

drjeff said:


> You're then presuming that there will always be an eye witness who notices say that average build guy in a blue ski coat wearing a ski hat carrying 2 pairs of skis and a gear bag in the base area on any given day



No.  

If the camera is there its value is to back up the eye witness, not to give facial recognition without a witness.  Of course there will not always be an eyewitness.  Something better than nothing dept.


I'm presuming a pre meditated ski thief taking a vanful or trunkful will be smart enough not to walk off with more than 1 pair at a time.


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2011)

mister moose said:


> No.
> 
> If the camera is there its value is to back up the eye witness, not to give facial recognition without a witness.  Of course there will not always be an eyewitness.  Something better than nothing dept.
> 
> ...



You never know??  I mean would someone in a ski coat and maybe a baseball cap, carrying a ski bag and 2 pair of skis on their shoulders look that much more suspicious to people in the area then if they had just 1 pair on their shoulder??  Heck, I know that PLENTY of times I'm headed out to my car at the end of a day on the slopes with both my pair and my wife's pair of skis on my shoulder, or some days if I bring 2 pairs to the mountain myself, I've got 2 pairs of my own skis on my shoulders.

All i'm saying is that it doesn't take much effort for an a$$hole ski/board thief to easily blend in with legitimate folks leaving a base area at the end of the day.  For all we know, many of us could have very well witnessed one of these a$$holes in action at some point over our ski/boarding careers and never even known it   You up at K probably have 2 of the "best" places to observe how easy it would be for a thief to blend in,  Just spend a few minutes this weekend (or almost any weekend for that matter) either on the hillside of KBL or in the walkway between the 2 halfs of the lodge at Snowshed sometime between 3 and say 4:15/30 and just see how many folks walk out of the lodge, look around at the racks for a moment to see which one they left their gear on, and then walk over, grab that unlocked gear, shoulder it and walk away.  I've done the same thing at Mount Snow while waiting to pick my kids up at the end of the day from their programs and it's almost down right scary how easy it would be for someone to take some gear


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## riverc0il (Dec 31, 2011)

This is a timely topic considering what happened yesterday. Just finished changing and packing up at Mad River Glen. Came out of the Basebox and went to grab my skis and noticed my BD Traverse poles were gone. Son of a B! 

Traverse poles aren't cheap but I wouldn't believe a MRG'er would walk of with a pair of poles. I noticed another pair of poles were right next to my skis without an associated pair of skis to go with them. I quickly scanned the base area for my poles in someone's hand. Recently, one of my straps came loose so  I knew to look for that. Sure enough, I saw someone with a pair of BD Traverse poles that looked beat up like my with one of the two straps loose.

Turns out the person who walked off with them rented their gear. In my mind, I couldn't even fathom someone confusing a pair of traverse poles with flick locks with a junk pair of rental poles. But I wasn't thinking like a beginner that rents different gear every time they ski. I approached the women and asked her if she was sure she had the right poles. Sure enough, she had no idea but told me she got them next to a pair of skis she identified that were mine. 

We did the switch and she was pretty embarrassed about it. I'm just glad I came out exactly when I did and not a few minutes later. Traverse poles go for $70 so that would be an expensive mistake. Though with a quick stop by the rental shop to identify the issue, I probably would have gotten them back.

Just wanted to throw this experience out there. While thefts certainly occur, a lot of gear probably gets moved and taken by accident. Poles seem especially susceptible since they are not matched to bindings. I know some folks hang their pole straps by the tips of their skis which on hind sight of this incident probably helps these types of accidents.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 31, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Just wanted to throw this experience out there. While thefts certainly occur, a lot of gear probably gets moved and taken by accident. Poles seem especially susceptible since they are not matched to bindings. I know some folks hang their pole straps by the tips of their skis which on hind sight of this incident probably helps these types of accidents.



This happens alot.  I run a demo center on mtn. so the people are really familar with the graphics of the skis they have, since they just picked them up, and keep swapping the skis out during the day.  Yesterday I had a guy who demoed a Atomic Smoke, in the morning, and a Atomic Smoke TI in the afternoon.  One is red graphics on a black ski, the other is orange on black.

When he came back at the end of the day to return the Smoke TI he was complaing to me ho something was wrong with the bindings and he was coming out super easy.  What had happened was he went in for a break with the Smoke TI and when he came out he took some other persons pair of regular Smoke's off the rack.  The bindings were close enough that he could step into them but was popping out when he tried to ski.

I told him those were not the skis I had rented to him(didn't have my demo tags on it) and he went out and found the real demo sitting on the racks.  We went to guest services were the other guy had reported his skis stolen already.  Guest services called the other man and he came and got his skis back.


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## 〽❄❅ (Dec 31, 2011)

^i wanna shake my head back and fourth and say unbelievable but it's so believable i can just picture it happening! 

Anyhow, reading all of this, i'm thinking i'll order one of those ski rack key/insert things. 

Sign of the Times, eh:blink:

I once left a expensive pair of ski poles on the ski rack by the train station at Klosters Switzerland, didn't realize it 'till back at Davos which isn't exactly a short train ride. Was to late in the day to get back up on the mountain to ski to Klosters so i caught the next train back. My ski poles were right there all by their lonesome selves on the rack where i had left them:beer: We couldn't help but say what are the odds of that outcome if it happened here:flag:


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## abc (Jan 1, 2012)

〽❄❅;676720 said:
			
		

> ^Sign of the Times, eh:blink:
> 
> I once left a expensive pair of ski poles on the ski rack by the train station at Klosters Switzerland, didn't realize it 'till back at Davos which isn't exactly a short train ride. Was to late in the day to get back up on the mountain to ski to Klosters so i caught the next train back. My ski poles were right there all by their lonesome selves on the rack where i had left them:beer: We couldn't help but say what are the odds of that outcome if it happened here:flag:


Different time now. I left a set of back country poles (adjustable length) on a bus at St. Moritz. Realized my mistake 1/2 hr later. Contact the bus company right away. No luck. Some bastard took them home! 

Some country, even the same region. "Sign of the time", I gues.


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## billski (Jan 1, 2012)

〽❄❅;676720 said:
			
		

> Anyhow, reading all of this, i'm thinking i'll order one of those ski rack key/insert things.



I have one of those and carry it.  The only place I've ever used it was wawa.  The racks are not at use in most places I go.  I pull out the little cable lock.

I suspect because ski equp in general is so expensive, and little Bobby didn't get what he wanted, off we go.  The exception of course are those pros, like the ones at Stowe who attempted to drive away with ten sets of skis in their trunk.  Justice prevailed for once and they took a limo ride in a car with flashing lights.


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## Geoff (Jan 1, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> seriously, what form of degenerate steals a lock?



I've picked them quite a few times and put the lock in my pocket as a joke on friends who insist on locking their skis.   Those 4 or 5 digit cylinder locks take about 30 seconds to open.   You just start from the bottom with tension on the cable.  You can feel the cable move when you've dialed in the correct number.

Split your skis.   Nobody is going to steal one ski.


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## legalskier (Jan 1, 2012)

Matt2012 said:


> The suspect blamed for stuff at Stratton ( mentioned above), was vindicated completely - they had the wrong guy altogether.  -- Talk about a lawsuit and a half.  He does not even own a Mercedes and resides in NYC.    Shows you can't believe everything that's printed in a newspaper or online.



Something doesn’t add up here. The article in _The Reformer_ has a lot of specific information about (redacted) , including that he was identified by a witness: “*The victim observed (redacted) *in possession of an open ski bag containing the same model that was stolen and later identified them as his own”  (http://www.reformer.com/ci_19613099). Also, the police obtained *a warrant* to search his car.  Warrants are issued by a judge or magistrate only after a review of the evidence presented by the police, so that’s another layer of review which insures against mistakes like the  one you are suggesting took place here against “the wrong guy.” 
The only explanation would be that the perp they caught was pretending to be (redacted). But that raises the question of why he would do that when the real (redacted) has a *criminal history for similar offenses*, according to the article.  Seems like an odd choice by the perp, no? 
Also, the perp was *arraigned* before a judge who set a $25000 bail- another layer of review insuring against mistaken identities. And certainly by that time the police would have uncovered the *vehicle registration documents* in the Benz and seen whether they match up with the perp’s i.d.  Which raises another question- how could the perp impersonate (redacted) and have his car too? 
The legal process usually is slow, cautious and deliberate, so it also doesn’t add up that (redacted) was “vindicated completely” in such a *short time*. A mere 8 calendar days passed between his arrest and your post, which was a holiday week.

Your post makes no sense to me- can you provide any more specific info with a link to back up your claims?


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## bigbog (Jan 1, 2012)

Certainly speaks for the backcountry, adjustable poles...able to be shortened as to allow passage inside a lodge..  Either that or if there's some skilock, even just locking onto one ski...or the major cable,  which locks the poles.


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## legalskier (Apr 6, 2012)

_*** He pleaded not guilty and *is due back in court in Brattleboro on April 5*, a court clerk said. ***_
Links: http://www.killingtonzone.com/forum...boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=151760 



Any follow up?


.


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## bobbutts (Apr 6, 2012)

I took the wrong poles a couple years back.  Didn't realize til I got home.  The ones I took were the same size and also bottom of the line quality.  I just hope my victim took my poles to replace his so it was an even swap instead of unintentional theft.


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## MoosePond (Apr 9, 2012)

legalskier said:


> _*** He pleaded not guilty and *is due back in court in Brattleboro on April 5*, a court clerk said. ***_
> Links: http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33716; [url]http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=151760 [/URL]
> 
> 
> ...


Think that April date may have been in error. His next court appearance is (xx)

Thursday,  May   3          State vs. (redacted)


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## legalskier (May 8, 2012)

MoosePond said:


> don't know what happened on the last court appearance but (redacted) is now scheduled for a pre-trial conference in July:
> 
> Cases heard by David T. Suntag
> 
> ...


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## WilliamK (Dec 27, 2014)

I followed this case very closely. (redacted) was completely vindicated.  Stinks that the real thief eluded the police.


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## bigbog (Dec 27, 2014)

riverc0il said:


> A better idea would be just lock your skis and take some personal responsibility for your possessions instead of wanting the ski areas to jack up prices so they can hire security detail and install a pricy CCTV system (they are not cheap).
> I hope the guy that got caught gets the book thrown at him. But that doesn't excuse victims for allowing themselves to be victimized and then blaming the ski areas. Cable locks cost ten bucks and last forever.



+1


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## thetrailboss (Dec 27, 2014)

Moral of the story: lock'em up


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## bigbog (Dec 27, 2014)

ROTFL..AgAiN thetrailboss.....another thread I revisited without looking at date..lol.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 27, 2014)

bigbog said:


> ROTFL..AgAiN thetrailboss.....another thread I revisited without looking at date..lol.



That's ok. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## 603Skier (Dec 29, 2014)

Again, all the more reason why I like to create yellow dot trails that dead end in the woods.  Skies stay with me.  
I'm telling ya, the back pack with a few sandwiches, granola bars and beverages no lodge needed.  I know, I know but bears go there to.
Sorry. Saves time, money and I don't even sweat in any lines.  

Don't get me wrong I keep a ski lock in the jacket one cable and one Ski Key for when I do go into a lodge.  No cutting off the ski key.  My skies are there every time.  Been lucky with the 18 year old bent poles I guess.

Another reason why I enjoyed Gunstock is the convenience of the outdoor potty at the top of the main lift(where the people usually are not).

That being said...Lock em up if they catch them!  Then ban them from all ski resorts for life!


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## marcski (Dec 29, 2014)

603Skier said:


> Again, all the more reason why I like to create yellow dot trails that dead end in the woods.  Skies stay with me.
> I'm telling ya, the back pack with a few sandwiches, granola bars and beverages no lodge needed.  I know, I know but bears go there to.
> Sorry. Saves time, money and I don't even sweat in any lines.
> 
> ...



Most of these big resorts have free ski checks these days, don't they? I know Hunter had one working this past weekend and have seen them elsewhere too.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2014)

marcski said:


> Most of these big resorts have free ski checks these days, don't they? I know Hunter had one working this past weekend and have seen them elsewhere too.



Okemo charges for the service.  I think it was $1 for a one time fee, $3 for all day unlimited and $5 for overnight.   They also charge I believe it was $8 and $10 depending on size for a bag check.  I may be off by a buck or two, but it was a ridiculous fee compared to the competition.

Okemo has a known problem with theft there.  It's been that way since the 80's with kids from down the road in Springfield coming to the mountain and stealing stuff.  I remember reading about it in the papers all the time as a kid.  My folks had stuff stolen from them on two occasions as well.  Now fast forward 25 years and they've got cameras all over the place with signs warning people to lock their belongings.   More like signs encouraging people to pay for their storage services.  

You would think that if a mountain has a known problem, that they'd do right by their customers and offer the service for either free or very short money.  Okemo has taken the stance of looking at it as a profit center.  That really rubbed me the wrong way.  I asked the lady at the bag check counter if they laundered and ironed my spare clothes in the bag for that fee as I had just skied Killington right up the road and they don't charge a dime for the same service.  She was not amused. :lol:


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## steamboat1 (Dec 29, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Okemo charges for the service.  I think it was $1 for a one time fee, $3 for all day unlimited and $5 for overnight.   They also charge I believe it was $8 and $10 depending on size for a bag check.  I may be off by a buck or two, but it was a ridiculous fee compared to the competition.
> 
> Okemo has a known problem with theft there.  It's been that way since the 80's with kids from down the road in Springfield coming to the mountain and stealing stuff.  I remember reading about it in the papers all the time as a kid.  My folks had stuff stolen from them on two occasions as well.  Now fast forward 25 years and they've got cameras all over the place with signs warning people to lock their belongings.   More like signs encouraging people to pay for their storage services.
> 
> You would think that if a mountain has a known problem, that they'd do right by their customers and offer the service for either free or very short money.  Okemo has taken the stance of looking at it as a profit center.  That really rubbed me the wrong way.  I asked the lady at the bag check counter if they laundered and ironed my spare clothes in the bag for that fee as I had just skied Killington right up the road and they don't charge a dime for the same service.  She was not amused. :lol:


Killington offers free staffed & secured bag check everyday in the K-1 lodge. Free staffed & secured bag check is available in the Ramshead & Snowshed lodges on weekends & during peak periods (This is the same service Okemo is charging upwards of $10 for). Free storage racks are available in all lodges everyday. All lodges offer individual locked storage  bins at a reasonable price. Pretty sure they only have ski check at the Snowshed lodge & charge a minimal fee.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm aware.  I said so in my post that bag check was free at Killington.  Used the service two of my visits there this season.  The other time we based out of Bear and I didn't see the service offered there, so I took my chances leaving my bag on the shelf.  

Seems like a no brainer offer of goodwill by the mountain and it helps keep the lodge less cluttered.  While boring, it's probably a fairly lucrative job for the bag attendants.  I usually tip them a buck at drop off and another buck at pick up at the end of the day.  I would think they could make out well with tips on top of their hourly wage.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 29, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm aware.  I said so in my post that bag check was free at Killington.  Used the service two of my visits there this season.  The other time we based out of Bear and I didn't see the service offered there, so I took my chances leaving my bag on the shelf.
> 
> Seems like a no brainer offer of goodwill by the mountain and it helps keep the lodge less cluttered.  While boring, it's probably a fairly lucrative job for the bag attendants.  I usually tip them a buck at drop off and another buck at pick up at the end of the day.  I would think they could make out well with tips on top of their hourly wage.


Didn't say you didn't mention it in your post. I was just putting the information out there for all to read. As I mentioned all lodges have individual locked storage bins for a quarter or 50 cents (not sure). If you wanted to feel more secure you could have used the lockable storage bins located downstairs in the Bear Mountain Lodge when you based out of there.

Killington doesn't allow any storage of items under tables or in corners in any of their lodges. If you leave your items there it will be moved to one of the free storage racks.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2014)

That's a good value.  Okemo was charging $4 for their lockers.  I've defended the mountain over the years as being well run and offering good customer service, but their storage charges just seem like gouging to me.  I'm in no rush to return.


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## Cannonball (Dec 29, 2014)

My theft story is an old one, but it was crazy.  I think it was 1986-ish (high school):
I was at Smuggs for a week-long trip with 2 teachers and ~8 students.  As a group we used to do a lot of weekends and day trips.  It was a pretty cool group of skiers.  Me and one of the teachers used to organize everything and got a cut rate as a reward.  Anyway.... 
At the end of day 1 my skis and another students skis were stolen off the rack.  That night our van window was smashed and 4 other students' skis were stolen.  We all had to rent to gear the next day.  One of the teacher's had brought his own car, at the end of day 2 in the Smuggs lot his car was broken into with his skis and another student's skis stolen.  On the last day my rental skis were stolen!  In total we lost 9 pairs of skis and had 2 windows broken.  Ever since that trip I've been very, very cautious about where I set stuff and how long I leave it unattended.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 29, 2014)

I know Stowe has free storage lockers over at Spruce Camp. My only problem with them is I could never figure out how to program in a combination to lock them. Doesn't really matter as usually it's only my dirty smelly sneakers I'm looking to store. If someone wants them they can have them. 

I locked my ski's the first season I bought them but didn't bother last year or this year even though I carry the lock in my jacket. They're very good ski's but not very popular so I don't really worry about them to much


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2014)

Here's a story beyond having gear stolen at the mountain.   In the late 60's, my grandfather had a cabin near Ragged Mountain, NH.  It got broken into several times and he had some ski gear stolen, but mainly booze.  Eventually, my grandfather actually caught them in the act and the crooks were sent to jail for a year.  A short while after they got out of jail, arson was committed at my grandfather's cabin.  It burned straight to the ground.  It is assumed that the thieves who were jailed were responsible, but the local authorities were never able to prove it.  After that, my grandfather gave up and sold the land and charred remains of his cabin.


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## Cornhead (Dec 30, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Here's a story beyond having gear stolen at the mountain.   In the late 60's, my grandfather had a cabin near Ragged Mountain, NH.  It got broken into several times and he had some ski gear stolen, but mainly booze.  Eventually, my grandfather actually caught them in the act and the crooks were sent to jail for a year.  A short while after they got out of jail, arson was committed at my grandfather's cabin.  It burned straight to the ground.  It is assumed that the thieves who were jailed were responsible, but the local authorities were never able to prove it.  After that, my grandfather gave up and sold the land and charred remains of his cabin.



Wow, that sucks, guess they weren't rehabilitated in prison, too bad they blamed your Grandfather for consequences of their poor decisions, scum bags.


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