# I'm an idiot



## SkiDork (Aug 10, 2011)

Took the 1999 528i BMW to the dealer for brake service (don't like to mess with brakes) and they said it needs a new master cylinder and brake  booster (whatever that is).  OK - how much?

$2800

It's $127 to get my car back, just for the diagnosis.  Thinking about paying that and going somewhere else.


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## marcski (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Took the 1999 528i BMW to the dealer for brake service (don't like to mess with brakes) and they said it needs a new master cylinder and brake  booster (whatever that is).  OK - how much?
> 
> $2800
> 
> It's $127 to get my car back, just for the diagnosis.  Thinking about paying that and going somewhere else.




Yes, for sure, take it back.  I stopped going to the dealer years ago and have enjoyed my car so much more since it has stopped adding to the national debt to get it serviced!!!  I diagnose my car myself now, buy my own parts online and then just bring it to my local, long-time mechanic for the labor.  Saves me a bundle!


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## billski (Aug 10, 2011)

marcski said:


> Yes, for sure, take it back.  I stopped going to the dealer years ago and have enjoyed my car so much more since it has stopped adding to the national debt to get it serviced!!!  I diagnose my car myself now, buy my own parts online and then just bring it to my local, long-time mechanic for the labor.  Saves me a bundle!



+1 I have been told that OEM parts are (in general) made by the same manufacturer that provides parts to the auto company.  I go to an independent who was factory trained at the dealership and runs at a much lower labor rate.  I was able to get a bunch of stuff fixed including brake work for $1200 versus the 3,000 the dealer wanted.

They just don't have free coffee or cozy chairs!

Time to move on


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## SkiDork (Aug 10, 2011)

Just spoke to a local independant BMW guy - he said MAX that job will be 2K from him.

I'm gonna pull it out of there and bring it to him.

Lesson learned.


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## billski (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Just spoke to a local independant BMW guy - he said MAX that job will be 2K from him.
> 
> I'm gonna pull it out of there and bring it to him.
> 
> Lesson learned.



BTW, Indies often don't charge anything to run the diagnostics.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 10, 2011)

Sounds like BMW dealerships are the devil just like Audi dealerships.  I think they run on the assumption that people who drive those cars, don't care what it costs to maintain them as they're so expensive to purchase new.


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## hammer (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Just spoke to a local independant BMW guy - he said MAX that job will be 2K from him.
> 
> I'm gonna pull it out of there and bring it to him.
> 
> Lesson learned.


Even 2K sounds like a lot of $$...but somehow I'm not surprised.

I don't know where dealerships get the idea that they can charge so much.  They have to know that they are losing a good amount of business to qualified independent shops...


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## Glenn (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Took the 1999 528i BMW to the dealer for brake service (don't like to mess with brakes) and they said it needs a new master cylinder and brake  booster (whatever that is).  OK - how much?
> 
> $2800
> 
> It's $127 to get my car back, just for the diagnosis.  Thinking about paying that and going somewhere else.



The booster uses vaccum pressure from the engine to assist in braking. 

What does that price include? Is that for all new pads and rotors too? Is the master cylinder leaking? 

Dealer service writers work on comission...so they like high repair bills.


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## SkiDork (Aug 10, 2011)

yesterday when I was speaking to the "representative" I mentioned I also wanted an oil change.  He comes back with "we should really do a "service" based on your mileage, this would consist of oil change, plus air filter, microfilter, coolant flush and brake fluid flush.

OK, how much?

$1100

I think I'll just stick with the oil change...


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## marcski (Aug 10, 2011)

hammer said:


> Even 2K sounds like a lot of $$...but somehow I'm not surprised.
> 
> I don't know where dealerships get the idea that they can charge so much.  They have to know that they are losing a good amount of business to qualified independent shops...



Plus, the guys that actually do the work on your car when you bring it to a dealer aren't "real" mechanics.  They are really just "parts changers."  There may be just one or two "real" mechanic that knows what he is doing in the service center of a dealer, who can actually diagnose and determine what is really wrong with a car.  Then he tells the parts changers to change this or that or do a service maintenance A or b or what have you.


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## hammer (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> yesterday when I was speaking to the "representative" I mentioned I also wanted an oil change.  He comes back with "we should really do a "service" based on your mileage, this would consist of oil change, plus air filter, microfilter, coolant flush and brake fluid flush.
> 
> OK, how much?
> 
> ...


Will this be your last time at this dealer's shop?


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## SkiDork (Aug 10, 2011)

hammer said:


> Will this be your last time at this dealer's shop?



ummmmm..... YES!

Shop is beautiful though.  They actually purchased an old school and transformed it into a repair shop.  2 levels, gorgeous waiting room, food/drink bar, loaner cars, lots of glass etc.

But they rake you over the coals.

I guess you have to be a Doctor or Lawyer (or rap star) to use them...


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## gmcunni (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Shop is beautiful though.  They actually purchased an old school and transformed it into a repair shop.  2 levels, gorgeous waiting room, food/drink bar, loaner cars, lots of glass etc.
> 
> But they rake you over the coals.



somebody has to pay for all that stuff...


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## bvibert (Aug 10, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> ummmmm..... YES!
> 
> Shop is beautiful though.  They actually purchased an old school and transformed it into a repair shop.  2 levels, gorgeous waiting room, food/drink bar, loaner cars, lots of glass etc.
> 
> ...



How do you think they're paying for that nice shop??


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## bvibert (Aug 10, 2011)

marcski said:


> Plus, the guys that actually do the work on your car when you bring it to a dealer aren't "real" mechanics.  They are really just "parts changers."  There may be just one or two "real" mechanic that knows what he is doing in the service center of a dealer, who can actually diagnose and determine what is really wrong with a car.  Then he tells the parts changers to change this or that or do a service maintenance A or b or what have you.



I've got news for you if you think that all the people who work in independent garages are "real" mechanics...


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## Geoff (Aug 10, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I've got news for you if you think that all the people who work in independent garages are "real" mechanics...



At the small indy garage I use, there are two partners who are both competent mechanics and a couple of employees who do the routine stuff.   It would be stupid to have a mechanic do oil changes.


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## marcski (Aug 10, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I've got news for you if you think that all the people who work in independent garages are "real" mechanics...



My guys is my guy.  Been going to him for 20 years.  He has one Albanian guy that has worked on German cars his entire life that helps out 2 days a week.  Otherwise...my guy does everything for me..including oil changes, Geoff!


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## Nick (Aug 10, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Dealer service writers work on comission...so they like high repair bills.



Wow, seriously? I had no idea.


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## Nick (Aug 10, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I've got news for you if you think that all the people who work in independent garages are "real" mechanics...




I had an independent guy fix my car, which I inherited from my dad. A 1973 Porsche 914 that he had bought brand new. 

Here's the before / after when he replaced the fuel lines:

Before: 






After:


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## marcski (Aug 10, 2011)

Nick said:


> I had an independent guy fix my car, which I inherited from my dad. A 1973 Porsche 914 that he had bought brand new.
> 
> Here's the before / after when he replaced the fuel lines:
> 
> ...



Doh!


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## hammer (Aug 10, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I've got news for you if you think that all the people who work in independent garages are "real" mechanics...


The independent mechanic  I used to go to was a one-man operation...oil changes on up.  Only time he ever sent work out elsewhere was when I had a window problem.  He even soldered a board to fix a temperature dial problem I was having, saved me about $500 since I didn't have to replace the part.

Unfortunately he just recently closed up his shop. :sad:


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## JimG. (Aug 10, 2011)

This is why I stick to Japanese cars...Subaru dealer's service ain't cheap, but it isn't the national debt either.

My parents owned Mercedes for years and always complained about the riduculous maintenance charges. And that was back in the 70's and 80's. I remember as a kid my Dad hitting the ceiling when Mercedes charged him $835 to replace a broken brake lens. $835 for a red piece of plastic!

I decided back then I would never own a German car and I never have and never will.


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## JimG. (Aug 10, 2011)

Nick said:


> I had an independent guy fix my car, which I inherited from my dad. A 1973 Porsche 914 that he had bought brand new.
> 
> Here's the before / after when he replaced the fuel lines:
> 
> ...



OMG.

The new definition of poor service!


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## bvibert (Aug 10, 2011)

Nick said:


> I had an independent guy fix my car, which I inherited from my dad. A 1973 Porsche 914 that he had bought brand new.
> 
> Here's the before / after when he replaced the fuel lines:
> 
> ...



That's just disturbing!!!


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## Philpug (Aug 10, 2011)

Nick said:


> I had an independent guy detail my car, which I inherited from my dad. A 1973 Porsche 914 that he had bought brand new.
> 
> Here's the before / after when i had the car detailed:
> 
> ...



Maybe that will make you feel better.


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## Nick (Aug 10, 2011)

Philpug said:


> Maybe that will make you feel better.



Haha yeah.,  tons


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## Glenn (Aug 11, 2011)

Eeek! Oh man. That's a shame. Those 914's are nice cars. 

With German cars, you have to find a good indepenent shop. I drive about 35 minutes away for service. Is it a bit of a hassle, yeah. But these guys know their stuff and they do it for a fair price. 

The only time your German car should go to the dealer it for warranty work.


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## Geoff (Aug 11, 2011)

Glenn said:


> The only time your German car should go to the dealer it for warranty work.



For Volkswagens, it depends on the dealer.   In my experience, VW-Audi dealers fall into that category.   The VW-Audi dealer in Rutland, Vt refused to even quote me a price for a basic oil change.   I had one done there, got a near-$100 bill, and will never go back.   Seacoast VW in New Hampshire isn't like that.   Miller VW in Lebanon, NH isn't like that.


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## WakeboardMom (Aug 11, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Eeek! Oh man. That's a shame. Those 914's are nice cars.
> 
> With German cars, you have to find a good indepenent shop. I drive about 35 minutes away for service. Is it a bit of a hassle, yeah. But these guys know their stuff and they do it for a fair price.
> 
> The only time your German car should go to the dealer it for warranty work.



I have that policy in regard to all of our Volvos and now will do the same for the BMW. 

I still remember my husband getting sticker shock over the cost of spark plug wires (wiring harness, maybe) for the first Volvo Turbo wagon in 1985.


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## Nick (Aug 11, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Eeek! Oh man. That's a shame. Those 914's are nice cars.
> 
> With German cars, you have to find a good indepenent shop. I drive about 35 minutes away for service. Is it a bit of a hassle, yeah. But these guys know their stuff and they do it for a fair price.
> 
> The only time your German car should go to the dealer it for warranty work.



This guy was actually a really reputable VW service guy who worked on that car. he races VW's as well and pretty much all he works on is VW's. 

I could never actually prove it was caused by the repair work because the fire damage was so extensive, but I had literally had all the fuel lines replaced a week earlier. When the fire started, I heard the fuel line let go, the engie started sputtering, and behind me I could see the disconnected fuel line (it was a mid-engine air cooled car) spraying fuel into the engine block. A couple seconds later it lit up, and in sixty seconds the whole car was in flames. 

:angry:


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## AdironRider (Aug 11, 2011)

Just do the brake work yourself. Its not hard at all. Its more mental than anything, similar to learning how to ski woods or something. Not really that tough, but its all in your head.


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## billski (Aug 11, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Just do the brake work yourself. Its not hard at all. Its more mental than anything, similar to learning how to ski woods or something. Not really that tough, but its all in your head.



It works out well for me.  I always have leftover parts.  Kindof a bonus, I guess.:dunce:


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## Glenn (Aug 12, 2011)

Nick said:


> This guy was actually a really reputable VW service guy who worked on that car. he races VW's as well and pretty much all he works on is VW's.
> 
> I could never actually prove it was caused by the repair work because the fire damage was so extensive, but I had literally had all the fuel lines replaced a week earlier. When the fire started, I heard the fuel line let go, the engie started sputtering, and behind me I could see the disconnected fuel line (it was a mid-engine air cooled car) spraying fuel into the engine block. A couple seconds later it lit up, and in sixty seconds the whole car was in flames.
> 
> :angry:



On one hand, it would be hard to prove. On the other, when those air cooled cars burned, usually was because of a fuel line. The mechanic probably didn't tighten up one clamp...that's all it took.


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## Nick (Aug 12, 2011)

Glenn said:


> On one hand, it would be hard to prove. On the other, when those air cooled cars burned, usually was because of a fuel line. The mechanic probably didn't tighten up one clamp...that's all it took.



Yup, that's what I figured. Something stupid & simple like that. 

So frustrating.


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## Mildcat (Aug 13, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Just do the brake work yourself. Its not hard at all. Its more mental than anything, similar to learning how to ski woods or something. Not really that tough, but its all in your head.



Master cylinders can be tough. With some makes you need a very expensive scan tool to cycle the abs when you bleed the system or else you will never get the air out of it. You also have to bench bleed the master cylinder which if you don't do it properly you will ruin it. The accumulator also has to be depressurized before tapping into the hydraulics or you're going to have to pay a body shop to strip and repaint your fenders.


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## Mildcat (Aug 13, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> yesterday when I was speaking to the "representative" I mentioned I also wanted an oil change.  He comes back with "we should really do a "service" based on your mileage, this would consist of oil change, plus air filter, microfilter, coolant flush and brake fluid flush.
> 
> OK, how much?
> 
> ...



Why would they charge you for a brake fluid flush? You would think that would be part of the price for replacing the master cylinder.


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## SkiDork (Aug 13, 2011)

Mildcat said:


> Why would they charge you for a brake fluid flush? You would think that would be part of the price for replacing the master cylinder.



they said no

Whatever, they're croooks.

Turns out the problem was a brake caliper.  Master Cylinder was fine.


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## Geoff (Aug 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> they said no
> 
> Whatever, they're croooks.
> 
> Turns out the problem was a brake caliper.  Master Cylinder was fine.



So that was only $1500.00?


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## SkiDork (Aug 14, 2011)

Geoff said:


> So that was only $1500.00?



he did a bunch of stuff for $1400 including the "service" the dealer wanted $1100 for., and the caliper replacement


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## darent (Aug 15, 2011)

Nick said:


> I had an independent guy fix my car, which I inherited from my dad. A 1973 Porsche 914 that he had bought brand new.
> 
> Here's the before / after when he replaced the fuel lines:
> 
> ...



nick- I am looking for a good mechanic, could I please have that guys name!!


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## Nick (Aug 15, 2011)

darent said:


> nick- I am looking for a good mechanic, could I please have that guys name!!



:lol:


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