# Grilling



## riverc0il (Oct 3, 2007)

Okay, enough ski talk, let's talk about something we can actually do something about right now (especially considering the warm weather): let's talk grilling.

MMMMMMmmmmmmmm..... Grilled Cow and Chicken Flesh.

Damn straight, that's what I am talking about!!!

Moving into a Condo Association, I knew I would feel a lot more uncomfortable with my charcoal grilling preference. My old place in Vermont, I had some room to spread out and no one really cared about me lighting up a few newspapers into a chimney and dumping out a kilogram worth of charcoal into the kettle. It was all good! And clean up? Well... the parking lot was dirt so who the hell cared? I could just dump that stuff out any where I liked.

Condo living is pinching my grilling style. All the units here have propane units out back. I was really thinking about going propane. Almost convinced it was better than cooking over a stove. Until Weber saved my life. Not to mention my taste buds! Charcoal taste with propane convenience. Screw a new pair of skis, I am getting a new grill! 

Weber Kettle Grills help make the best and tastiest meats ever. I turn my nose up at $30 prime rib from the finest restaurants knowing I could make equal if not better quality with only a grill and a little bit of seasoning. Could not believe my good fortune in finding the Performer before investing in a propane grill.

:beer:


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2007)

Don't knock the Weber propane grills...they also do a great job IMO.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh, no doubt. I was not knocking anything and if I had gone propane it would have been a Weber Q. But even Weber propane is far inferior to charcoal.


----------



## Greg (Oct 3, 2007)

*Weber rules!*

My Genesis Silver-B is humming right along after 5 1/ 2 years and being outside 24/7/365. My igniter died, but I'm just lazy to replace it. The long lighter works fine. I usually powerwash all the crap off the grates, flavorizer bars and lower tray and give it a thorough cleaning twice a year and the thing looks almost new. I also upgraded to the stainless flavorizer bars after the enameled ones rusted out (after about 4 years.) I've had success with the smoker box and mesquite chips to get a true charcoal like smoky flavor.

Oh and here's a newsflash: it don't need to be warm to grill. I have no problem grilling in sub-freezing temps. That's the beauty of propane (convenience) and the beers stay cold in the winter. :beer:


----------



## ccskier (Oct 3, 2007)

I have a Big Charmglow Stainless Grill, nice heavy lid, 3 front to back burners, love the thing.  I also have a gas baby q and a smokey joe for tailgating and the beach.  Nothing beats Charcoal, my father swears by it.  SOmetimes it is just too much work for me.  My buddy here in MA has to have an electric grill at his condo, that SUCKS.  That is not a grill, it is a space heater.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2007)

Greg said:


> My Genesis Silver-B is humming right along after 5 1/ 2 years and being outside 24/7/365. My igniter died, but I'm just lazy to replace it. The long lighter works fine. I usually powerwash all the crap off the grates, flavorizer bars and lower tray and give it a thorough cleaning twice a year and the thing looks almost new. I also upgraded to the stainless flavorizer bars after the enameled ones rusted out (after about 4 years.) I've had success with the smoker box and mesquite chips to get a true charcoal like smoky flavor.
> 
> Oh and here's a newsflash: it don't need to be warm to grill. I have no problem grilling in sub-freezing temps. That's the beauty of propane (convenience) and the beers stay cold in the winter. :beer:


Mine's a few years younger, but it was well worth the extra $$.  The third burner really helps.

I haven't done anything to clean it except making sure I brush off the grates each time I grill.  I do keep it covered, and it sits on my deck so it doesn't get dirty on the outside.  

And yes, I grill 12 months a year as well...just need to make sure that I shovel the snow off of the deck in the winter.


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 3, 2007)

I used my Weber (same one as Greg) the past 3 nights.  I'm a year round griller.  I always have it under the covered part of the deck.  Looking to add a smoker to the arsenal.


----------



## andyzee (Oct 3, 2007)

Steve, you are correct, charcol is the way to go. That said, here's the grill for you. Not only does it have a draw for collecting the ashes, it's stainless steel, it has a door for adding charcol, and it's totally adjustable. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=44013-53719-SS-2000&lpage=none


----------



## AHM (Oct 3, 2007)

*Charcoal only...............*

Riv is right, Weber is it.  Have used them for 30 years.........two on my deck right now.............Prime rib on the grill..........excellent............turkey breast at Thanksgiving..........super.  The weber rocks!


----------



## snoseek (Oct 3, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> I used my Weber (same one as Greg) the past 3 nights.  I'm a year round griller.  I always have it under the covered part of the deck.  Looking to add a smoker to the arsenal.



you can make your own foil packs. soak the chips and make a cylinder. play around with it to get the right amount of smoke.

i'm personally all set with gas grills although they have a purpose for busy folks, i'll find a different method of cooking my meat (oven broiler is not bad). i really dig the flavor of dry rubbed meat cooked indirectly over glowing hard wood. chicken cooked very slowly this way is so good, takes the better part of an afternoon, but i usually do something around the house in between. charcoal is my second choice as the flavor is pretty damn good.


----------



## Marc (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm with ya on the charcoal Riv.  I've got a Weber kettle as well.  I love getting a nice big smokey pile of coals going.  I live out in the middle of no where so the only complaints I get are from the cows.  They quiet down as soon as I bring out the steaks though, hold them in the air, point at them and say "do you want to be next??"

Anyway, I have thought for a long time about putting an old propane burner in my kettle, retrofit style.  I'm just going to have to keep my eyes peeled for an old junk grill with a still viable burner, hose and regulator.


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 3, 2007)

Charcoal is the way to go.  Now if you've seen my BBQ quiver, you know I have both.







The BGE  (Big Green Egg) is an awesome smoker and also a heck of a grill.  Also, it's so tight that when you're done, you can shut it down and the fire's out.  Save that charcoal for the next round.  Downside:  They're big cake.  (Not that big a deal when you consider how long it'll last.)

The gas grill is a Ducane, which is great.  Sometimes, you have to comprise the ultimate taste for the convenience, speed, and the ability to not have to cook inside.  (The giant Hamster wheel is a Arizona Chile Roaster, but that's another story.)

The Q is not in the picture.  That's for road trips.  (Riv:  I couldn't find a picture of the Hot Dog Quesodillas at Saddleback.)


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> Oh and here's a newsflash: it don't need to be warm to grill. I have no problem grilling in sub-freezing temps. That's the beauty of propane (convenience) and the beers stay cold in the winter. :beer:


Doesn't need to be warm to grill propane though standard propane is certainly much more a pain. That is the beauty of the grill I am considering, since it uses propane to get the coals going, then you switch to coals only. Easier winter grilling is definitely a major plus in my decision. Easy and convenience of propane with the great charcoal taste.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2007)

andyzee said:


> Steve, you are correct, charcol is the way to go. That said, here's the grill for you. Not only does it have a draw for collecting the ashes, it's stainless steel, it has a door for adding charcol, and it's totally adjustable. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=44013-53719-SS-2000&lpage=none


Andy, see the link in my first post above, already found the grill for me. Not only a draw for collecting ashes, but a propane starter. And of course, it is a weber, which I already have a standard kettle and swear by. Very few things I am brand conscious of, grilling is one of them.


----------



## andyzee (Oct 4, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> Andy, see the link in my first post above, already found the grill for me. Not only a draw for collecting ashes, but a propane starter. And of course, it is a weber, which I already have a standard kettle and swear by. Very few things I am brand conscious of, grilling is one of them.


 

Like the propane starter idea!


----------



## trtaylor (Oct 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> My Genesis Silver-B is humming right along after 5 1/ 2 years and being outside 24/7/365. My igniter died, but I'm just lazy to replace it. The long lighter works fine. I usually powerwash all the crap off the grates, flavorizer bars and lower tray and give it a thorough cleaning twice a year and the thing looks almost new. I also upgraded to the stainless flavorizer bars after the enameled ones rusted out (after about 4 years.) I've had success with the smoker box and mesquite chips to get a true charcoal like smoky flavor.
> 
> Oh and here's a newsflash: it don't need to be warm to grill. I have no problem grilling in sub-freezing temps. That's the beauty of propane (convenience) and the beers stay cold in the winter. :beer:



+1


----------



## Marc (Oct 4, 2007)

The only thing I don't like about my weber kettle is the cheap coating they used on the legs.  Mine are already rusted to shite.  I'm going to have to wire brush and spray paint them probably.  They should have just spent a little more and used aluminum legs, or at least galvanized.


----------



## Greg (Oct 4, 2007)

Anyone else use a rotisserie on their grills? I have a Weber rotisserie as well and it makes some awesome meals. Pork roast, roast beef. I just made a whole chicken over the weekend. Good stuff!


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Oct 4, 2007)

being outside when its snowing with a cold LTA , spatula in hand, grilling up some flesh is just so primal...its fantastic....never understood those who put the grill away for the winter......


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> Anyone else use a rotisserie on their grills? I have a Weber rotisserie as well and it makes some awesome meals. Pork roast, roast beef. I just made a whole chicken over the weekend. Good stuff!



Not at home but at the Firehouse.  (As previously seen):







(A thread with three pages of replies and none are from GSS??????)


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 4, 2007)

What is all that beautiful bacon wrapping?  Doesn't really matter with that much bacon in the mix?


----------



## bvibert (Oct 4, 2007)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> (A thread with three pages of replies and none are from GSS??????)



I guess he doesn't really live up to his name... :roll:


----------



## bvibert (Oct 4, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> What is all that beautiful bacon wrapping?  Doesn't really matter with that much bacon in the mix?



http://forums.alpinezone.com/17797-you-vegetarian.html?highlight=bacon#post188837



sled in other thread said:


> Pork roast, stuffed with steak tips, wrapped in bacon.


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 4, 2007)

bvibert said:


> http://forums.alpinezone.com/17797-you-vegetarian.html?highlight=bacon#post188837



1.  Thanks for posting that link.  I forgot about that pic of Alicia Silverstone.



sledhaulingmedic said:


> Not at home but at the Firehouse.  (As previously seen):



2. Great use of pork and beef!!!!


----------



## bvibert (Oct 4, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> 2. Great use of pork and beef!!!!



Pork and beef and MORE pork!


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 4, 2007)

The only thing I grill up is steeze.  I live in an apartment with no private entrance or deck/balcony so I make my steaks/salmon...in the oven.  But I live 2 miles from my parents and they BBQ alot.  Last night was Hamburgers and Hot Dogs on the grill.  Sirloin Burgers and Dietz and Watsons hot dogs..mmm..The benefit of mid 80s temps in October is that it extends the grilling season.  The only thing I don't like as much on the grill is corn...it seems mushier..I like corn boiled..Holla


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 4, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Pork and beef and MORE pork!



Lisa "I'm going to become a vegetarian" 
Homer "Does that mean you're not going to eat any pork?" 
Lisa "Yes" 
Homer "Bacon?" 
Lisa "Yes Dad" 
Homer "Ham?" 
Lisa "Dad all those meats come from the same animal"
Homer "Right Lisa, some wonderful, magical animal!"”


----------



## drjeff (Oct 4, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> What is all that beautiful bacon wrapping?  Doesn't really matter with that much bacon in the mix?



I was personally thinking that there WASN'T enough bacon on that roast as I could still see some beef under all that pork! 

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  Bacon!
:beer:


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 4, 2007)

Lisa having a hallucination where she thinks like Homer:

	What's that?
	[another hallucination appears.  A sandwich floats in on a 
	black background]
	Yuck!  That sandwich is full of meat.  There's bacon, 
	Canadian bacon, Mexican bacon [drools lustily] and a 
	mouth-watering veal chop.


----------



## bvibert (Oct 4, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The only thing I don't like as much on the grill is corn...it seems mushier..I like corn boiled..Holla



Gotta disagree there.  I LOVE grilling corn on the grill.  I cook it right in the husk, never had any mushiness issues...  Perhaps you're not doing it right??


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 4, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Gotta disagree there.  I LOVE grilling corn on the grill.  I cook it right in the husk, never had any mushiness issues...  Perhaps you're not doing it right??



I hear you B.  Eat it right off the cob or cut it off the cob and add it to salads, salsas, whatever...  mmmm


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 4, 2007)

If your corn on the grill is mushy, you're not cooking it right.


----------



## hammer (Oct 4, 2007)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> If your corn on the grill is mushy, you're not cooking it right.


I get that on occasion, but I've assumed that it was because I left it on too long or didn't turn it enough.

Corn on the grill is the best...nice flavor and the husk comes off real easy when it's done.


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 4, 2007)

hammer said:


> I get that on occasion, but I've assumed that it was because I left it on too long or didn't turn it enough.
> 
> Corn on the grill is the best...nice flavor and the husk comes off real easy when it's done.



Try this:  Husk the corn.  Bruch it with Olive oil, sprinkle wih slat and pepper, (or Adobo, or Jane's or Old Bay).  Put on a hot grill and turn often so it doesn't burn. Vert quick, very tasty, never mushy.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2007)

Marc said:


> The only thing I don't like about my weber kettle is the cheap coating they used on the legs.  Mine are already rusted to shite.  I'm going to have to wire brush and spray paint them probably.  They should have just spent a little more and used aluminum legs, or at least galvanized.


Dude, c'mon. Buy a cover and use it and then quit your bitching. :beer:


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Gotta disagree there.  I LOVE grilling corn on the grill.  I cook it right in the husk, never had any mushiness issues...  Perhaps you're not doing it right??


Corn is AWESOME on the grill. Amazingly good. Best corn I have ever had came from the grill.


----------



## Greg (Oct 4, 2007)

hammer said:


> Corn on the grill is the best...nice flavor and the husk comes off real easy when it's done.



Plus the peeled back husk acts as a nice handle...


----------



## Marc (Oct 4, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> Dude, c'mon. Buy a cover and use it and then quit your bitching. :beer:



I'm waay to cheap for a cover... lol.  Ok, so rust on the legs doesn't mean squat.  But, I have to bitch about _something_.  It's somehow in my nature.


----------



## Greg (Oct 4, 2007)

Marc said:


> I'm waay to cheap for a cover... lol.



Don't be. I am convinced that my $40 investment into the quality Weber cover is why my grill still looks so good after being outdoors 24/7/365 for the past 5 1/2 years+.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2007)

Marc said:


> I'm waay to cheap...


Period :lol: I still don't know how a penny pincher like you owns an Audi :lol:


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 4, 2007)

Anyone grill pizza?  I did a tomato, fresh mozz, basil, evoo, and s&p.  I also did one covered in fontina cheese, and some mixed shrooms that sauteed with garlic, evoo, parsley, and s&p.  they came out excellent on a gas grill.  charcoal would be even better for this application.


----------



## hammer (Oct 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> Don't be. I am convinced that my $40 investment into the quality Weber cover is why my grill still looks so good after being outdoors 24/7/365 for the past 5 1/2 years+.


I'll second that one...


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 4, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> Anyone grill pizza?  I did a tomato, fresh mozz, basil, evoo, and s&p.  I also did one covered in fontina cheese, and some mixed shrooms that sauteed with garlic, evoo, parsley, and s&p.  they came out excellent on a gas grill.  charcoal would be even better for this application.



Yes, but only on the Egg.  With the insulation of the ceramic, it's easy to get a 500F+ interior temp.  Pizza, the key = HOT!  YOu can certainly do it with any fuel, but hot and smoky makes it the best!


----------



## skijay (Oct 4, 2007)

I love my Weber grill.  Each time before I cook I fire it up to 500 degrees and then I use the brass brush to clean the grates. I also have the Weber cover and my grill still looks new and performs like new.  

I have also been grilling pizzas.  After I clean the grill I heat it up to 400, open the grill and place the pizza on towards the back.  I close the grill and cut the front burner down to low and turn the rear burner off.  The temp stays about 350.  

In about 15 minutes, I have a great fire grilled pizza.  It does not burn, the crust is crispy and the cheese melts. Oh, before you top the pizza, brush the underside with a thin coat of evoo.

I have been buying the store brand "Boboli" type thin crusts.  For toppings I use pesto, roasted red peppers, marinated artichoke hearts and a mixture of parmessan and mozzerlla cheese.  If I want a traditional pizza, I use a pasta sauce (whatever has the lowest amount of sugar in it ), mozzerella, parmessan and sometimes bacon or pepperoni.  I find that pasta sauce or an Italian baking sauce that has tomatoes as the number one ingredient instead of corn syrup or sugar tastes better on a pizza.


----------



## Marc (Oct 4, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> Period :lol: I still don't know how a penny pincher like you owns an Audi :lol:



If you can believe it, I have two cars at the moment.  I'm looking to sell the S4.  More proof of my cheapness- I replaced it with a 1999 Subie Outback with 123k miles, for under 7g's.

Want to buy an Audi?


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 5, 2007)

skijay said:


> I have also been grilling pizzas.  After I clean the grill I heat it up to 400, open the grill and place the pizza on towards the back.  I close the grill and cut the front burner down to low and turn the rear burner off.  The temp stays about 350.
> 
> In about 15 minutes, I have a great fire grilled pizza.  It does not burn, the crust is crispy and the cheese melts. Oh, before you top the pizza, brush the underside with a thin coat of evoo.
> 
> I have been buying the store brand "Boboli" type thin crusts.  For toppings I use pesto, roasted red peppers, marinated artichoke hearts and a mixture of parmessan and mozzerlla cheese.  If I want a traditional pizza, I use a pasta sauce (whatever has the lowest amount of sugar in it ), mozzerella, parmessan and sometimes bacon or pepperoni.  I find that pasta sauce or an Italian baking sauce that has tomatoes as the number one ingredient instead of corn syrup or sugar tastes better on a pizza.



I'm surprised you get good results at such a low temp, but hey, if it works, go for in.

I build a big-a$$ fire in the egg, get the temo up to 500+, toss some chips in for flavour, put in the grate, the ceramic stone and in the pizza goes.  I have to keep an eye on it.  At that temp, the fire tends to be a little O2 starved, so it "rolls over" when the lid gets opened.  10 minutes tops and it's yummy.  My neighbor says it smells like Bertucci's when I cook one.

My favorite: Red chile instead of pizza sauce.  A mix of cheddar and monterey jack, smoked chicken, roasted green chiles and red onion.  yum


----------



## Marc (Oct 5, 2007)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> I'm surprised you get good results at such a low temp, but hey, if it works, go for in.
> 
> I build a big-a$$ fire in the egg, get the temo up to 500+, toss some chips in for flavour, put in the grate, the ceramic stone and in the pizza goes.  I have to keep an eye on it.  At that temp, the fire tends to be a little O2 starved, so it "rolls over" when the lid gets opened.  10 minutes tops and it's yummy.  My neighbor says it smells like Bertucci's when I cook one.
> 
> My favorite: Red chile instead of pizza sauce.  A mix of cheddar and monterey jack, smoked chicken, roasted green chiles and red onion.  yum



Only a firefighter would cause a backdraft grilling a pizza.


----------



## bvibert (Oct 5, 2007)

Marc said:


> If you can believe it, I have two cars at the moment.  I'm looking to sell the S4.  More proof of my cheapness- I replaced it with a 1999 Subie Outback with 123k miles, for under 7g's.
> 
> Want to buy an Audi?



Why did you decide to sell the S4?


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 5, 2007)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> I'm surprised you get good results at such a low temp, but hey, if it works, go for in.
> 
> I build a big-a$$ fire in the egg, get the temo up to 500+, toss some chips in for flavour, put in the grate, the ceramic stone and in the pizza goes.  I have to keep an eye on it.  At that temp, the fire tends to be a little O2 starved, so it "rolls over" when the lid gets opened.  10 minutes tops and it's yummy.  My neighbor says it smells like Bertucci's when I cook one.
> 
> My favorite: Red chile instead of pizza sauce.  A mix of cheddar and monterey jack, smoked chicken, roasted green chiles and red onion.  yum



I go sans pizza stone and get good results.  But I like the way you think.  Mostly I'm too lazy to transfer the pizza stone from the oven to the grill.

PS - I'm going to use your recipe this weekend.  Sounds great.  I've been really into this sauce lately.


----------



## ctenidae (Oct 5, 2007)

I've used the stone in the grill a couple of times, but only with my old grill that really didn't get too hot. My new Ducane pegs out the thermometer on "medium". Probably great for pizza. Or smelting iron.


----------



## Marc (Oct 5, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Why did you decide to sell the S4?



I was kinda ready for a wagon.  And something cheaper.  Mostly cheaper.


----------



## bvibert (Oct 5, 2007)

Marc said:


> I was kinda ready for a wagon.  And something cheaper.  Mostly cheaper.



I hear ya on the wagon.  Cheaper, like maintenance wise?

As much as I like the subbies it would be tough for me to go from a car like the S4 to one...


----------



## Marc (Oct 5, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I hear ya on the wagon.  Cheaper, like maintenance wise?
> 
> As much as I like the subbies it would be tough for me to go from a car like the S4 to one...



No, cheaper as in no car payments.  The Audi was under warranty.


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 5, 2007)

ctenidae said:


> I've used the stone in the grill a couple of times, but only with my old grill that really didn't get too hot. My new Ducane pegs out the thermometer on "medium". Probably great for pizza. Or smelting iron.



Hey!  A fellow Ducane owner!  I haven't checked the temp on mine.  It's not incinerator hot, or at least it doesn;t seem to be, due to the ceramiic bricks.  Interesting to hear of one that runs hot.  (My dad's doens't either.)


----------



## ctenidae (Oct 5, 2007)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> Hey!  A fellow Ducane owner!  I haven't checked the temp on mine.  It's not incinerator hot, or at least it doesn;t seem to be, due to the ceramiic bricks.  Interesting to hear of one that runs hot.  (My dad's doens't either.)



It's like a blast furnace. I finally figured out that even on low food over a burner will burn. Now I use all three to heat it up, then turn off the middle and put the food there. I should get a thermometer that will read up to 1000 degrees to see just how hot it gets. I may open a blacksmith shop.


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 6, 2007)

ctenidae said:


> It's like a blast furnace. I finally figured out that even on low food over a burner will burn. Now I use all three to heat it up, then turn off the middle and put the food there. I should get a thermometer that will read up to 1000 degrees to see just how hot it gets. I may open a blacksmith shop.



My experience is only with the 2 burner models.  The heat regulation is excellent.  We have a fellow at work who cooks his meat like the butcher in "Gangs of New York" (sear on each side, RED everywhere) and he returned his Ducane becase he wanted it hotter.  That's he first I've heard of a Ducane blast furnace.

Where'd you get yours, Yankee?


----------



## ctenidae (Oct 8, 2007)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> Where'd you get yours, Yankee?



Who you calling Yankee?

I don't remember where I got it. Some hardware store down towards the South Shore. One of the few places that A) had it and 2) was accessible.


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 9, 2007)

ctenidae said:


> Who you calling Yankee?




Not you, trick hoe manbitch (Almost rhymes with "Grilled Steeze Sandwich", not that you desearve that ultimate dis). I meant: Yankee fireplace and grill city


----------



## ctenidae (Oct 11, 2007)

Used the stone in the Ducane.
Note: The stone, being above the burners, gets substantially hotter than the thermometer reades. Like, NASA hot. As in, instant charing of the crust. Top was great, bottom certainly fulfilled my USRDA for carbon.


----------

