# #$%$%^$ "Q" Bukre....what do I do?



## Slow (Dec 20, 2013)

So, after two years of day trips all over Vermont from Boston, including probably a dozen days at Burke we decided it was time to put my two sons in a full-time ski program and invest out time and resources in a specific mountain. We chose Burke because the NEK has the right pace and approach, the mountain seemed to have a great symbitic relationship with the surrounding community, the terrain is fantastic, and the great community on the mountain.

So, last Spring I gave Burke $1500 for season passes.
This fall I gave them $1300 for ski school for my two boys
And, I split a place with a friend who will be up every other weekend with his kids (bringing them to Burke...from Sugarbush).
The place we rented sleeps...a ton...so the plan was to get friends from home to come up for weekends and give Burke a try (yes this was intentional gorilla marketing on my part to recruit other like minded friends to embrace the mountain as their own)

So, here I am today; hoping they drop the Q, invest in the infrastrcture, and straingten out their relationships with the surrounding community and the few remaining mountain staff who have been there for years. But, fearful that they wont.

And, the more I see and hear the more I worry. I mountain bike. I have never ridden the KT or any other mountain, and probably never will, but this last news just continues to make me question "what the Q is up with their approach to invest in Burke without changing the character of Burke."...I think they missed the point.  Burke is the people, Burke is the community.  Investing in Burke includes investing the people and community.  If I wanted to ski someplace that is a buffed out mountain, staffed by seasonal workers and is completely detached from the surrounding community I have plenty of other choices at bigger moutains that are closer to home. 

I guess I am invested for the year and will let it play out. The owner of the house we rented has already indicated he would like to sell it to me after the season if we are interested. So, I thought we were done looking for a mountain. But, if it doesn't play out, maybe I'll go over to ther other small mountain with big terrain and a fantastic "all montain" program for the kids that we were torn between...the one off of 89 that is also about 3:30 from my town south of Boston...but OHHH the lift lines on the very best days can be deadly.

Anyone else have ideas?


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## kingdom-tele (Dec 20, 2013)

your dropping over 3k to play, are looking at buying a second home, and worried about lift served mt biking prices and the fact that a business man is making business decisions?

and people make fun of the locals from the NEK for being adverse to change.


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## Nick (Dec 20, 2013)

There's a lot of talk here and we have some Burke reps on the board. He might chime in and give you a No BS answer. 

Isn't the Q just the official company name? The mountain is still Burke. I know everyone likes to poke fun with the Q. At one point i think we were all confused and thought they were renaming the mountain to Qburke. Or at least I did.


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## Slow (Dec 20, 2013)

I'm not worried about lift served mtn bike prices.

I'm worried about a pattern of bad business decisions if the intent was to add beds, revenue sources, and infrastructure (and skier visits) to what is already a great skiing community. Alternatively, these are reasonable business decision if this is becoming a mega mtn that doesn't support it's surrounding community but, I can get that at bigger mountains closer to home.  I chose Burke because it wasn't.


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## kingdom-tele (Dec 20, 2013)

past tense.  it is now.  6 months ago these were the kind of decisions people wanted in the name of sustainability.   wasn't the idea that burke is to become that mega mtn/destination resort, you don't like that, you should move on.

the skiing and the community are still the same.  choose to stare at what you like.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

Nick said:


> There's a lot of talk here and we have some Burke reps on the board. He might chime in and give you a No BS answer.
> 
> Isn't the Q just the official company name? The mountain is still Burke. I know everyone likes to poke fun with the Q. At one point i think we were all confused and thought they were renaming the mountain to Qburke. Or at least I did.


Yes, unfortunately "Q Burke Mountain Resort" is now the official name.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Yes, unfortunately "Q Burke Mountain Resort" is now the official name.



New QBurke logo


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## Nick (Dec 20, 2013)

^ I didn't know that. I now see it on the website also


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2013)

Nick said:


> There's a lot of talk here and we have some Burke reps on the board. He might chime in and give you a No BS answer.
> 
> Isn't the Q just the official company name? The mountain is still Burke. I know everyone likes to poke fun with the Q. At one point i think we were all confused and thought they were renaming the mountain to Qburke. Or at least I did.



No, I'd say the mountain is very much being called Q Burke now.  It's part of the logo.  It's how it's discussed in news articles.  It's how it is promoted on the web.  Look at the online snow report from On the Snow......it's not Burke Mountain.  It's Q Burke Mountain Resorts

http://www.onthesnow.com/vermont/skireport.html

No offense to Andrew and the mountain employees, but I'll say it again, I find the renaming incredibly lame.  I've worked for numerous historic hotel and resort properties over the years through numerous ownership changes; many of them family owned.  Almost all of them had a different business name from the marketing name because they realized those properties were called something long before they owned it and will exist long after they're gone and have sold the property.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Slow:  send your concerns to Ary Quiros, Jr. at Burke, err, QBurke.  I'm sure that the sales guy will be in here, but he now has a four alarm PR fire on his hands at a time when he should be crowing about the skiing and the start of a new season.  It's not his fault, it's his boss's brainwave.  



Nick said:


> There's a lot of talk here and we have some Burke reps on the board. He might chime in and give you a No BS answer.
> 
> Isn't the Q just the official company name? The mountain is still Burke. I know everyone likes to poke fun with the Q. At one point i think we were all confused and thought they were renaming the mountain to Qburke. Or at least I did.



You've got to get up to speed.  Ary Jr. is insisting that everyone call the place "QBurke Mountain Resort."  It is absolutely ridiculous.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

And this is the THIRD Burke Mountain thread that has negative PR implications for them.  It's too bad because folks love the mountain and what it was.


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## Tin (Dec 20, 2013)

Jay bought them to close it down.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

Tin said:


> Jay bought them to close it down.


 

Let's get this point clear, technically JAY PEAK DOES NOT OWN BURKE! The Quiros family owns Q Burke. They also happen to be part of the primary ownership group of Jay Peak.

That conspiracy theory has been raised before but would seem like the Quiros’ have gone through a lot of trouble and expense to eliminate a “competitor”. Calling Burke a competitor to Jay in the current state of things is like calling Magic a direct competitor of Stratton. Why would they want Burke to fail? There are far easier ways to accomplish that.

IMHO many of the home owners and skiers at Burke wouldn’t automatically migrate to Jay if Burke closed. And I guarantee that is the case if it is apparent that “Jay bought them to close it down”. Many of the condo owners would likely look south either in NH or south/central VT. The local population of skiers/riders isn’t really substantial enough to boost Jay’s bottom line much, if at all.


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## DJAK (Dec 20, 2013)

On this logic, any resort they would acquire would be well served to become QKillington, QVail, QSugarloaf. They should buy the Red Sox and Q it (please don't). Doing it to Burke is no different, just a smaller balance sheet. Same level of branding/marketing WTF. 

Sadly the move makes any other they do (Kingdom Trails for example) immediately very questionable because they've broadcast this initial ego Q oddity far and wide. Don't expect any underling mtn reps to come in here and explain it away. Best to let the goo stick to the goo'er if the goo'er is not taking your advice. 

They still could turn this all around. Drop the Q, release a mea culpa, move on. You can do it Ary.


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## Tin (Dec 20, 2013)

The popcorn was in place of a sarcasm font that has not been developed yet.


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2013)

It's incredible nobody was able (if they tried) to tap him on the shoulder and convince him that the name Q Burke is awful. "Mt Shit" sounds about as good. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Edd said:


> It's incredible nobody was able (if they tried) to tap him on the shoulder and convince him that the name Q Burke is awful. "Mt Shit" sounds about as good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I'm pretty sure that they did.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

Edd said:


> It's incredible nobody was able (if they tried) to tap him on the shoulder and convince him that the name Q Burke is awful. "Mt Shit" sounds about as good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Well "Mt Shit" would also be a memorable name. Gets people talking that would otherwise just look past a plain jane name like "Burke". Even a bad reaction is better than no reaction, Right?   Just look at all this discussion about a letter of the alphabet. How many people in Boston even cared/remembered what Burke was named before?


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2013)

I'm picturing a company policy where they tack "Q" onto many words while dealing with the public for the sake of brand reinforcement. 

"Qmorning!  Welcome to QBurke. We've got 6 fresh inches of Qsnow!!!"


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

Edd said:


> I'm picturing a company policy where they tack "Q" onto many words while dealing with the public for the sake of brand reinforcement.
> 
> "Qmorning!  Welcome to QBurke. We've got 6 fresh inches of Qsnow!!!"


Andrew's job just got so much easier! :idea:


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Andrew's job just got so much easier! :idea:



Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q!!!  Also Q.


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## noreasterbackcountry (Dec 20, 2013)

Four Q will do.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

FuQBurke?


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## kingdom-tele (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> FuQBurke?



KT 's new T shirt?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Edd said:


> I'm picturing a company policy where they tack "Q" onto many words while dealing with the public for the sake of brand reinforcement.
> 
> "Qmorning! Welcome to QBurke. We've got 6 fresh inches of Qsnow!!!"



Don't laugh. I read an article in the Caledonian Record and every reference to the mountain was "QBurke Mountain Resort."  It was so dumb.  And I've heard that staff have all been told that it is QBurke.  They must say that.


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## fbrissette (Dec 20, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> KT 's new T shirt?



I'll definitely buy one !


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## Smellytele (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> FuQBurke?



fa-QBurke not fuQBurke


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## Zand (Dec 20, 2013)

"And over there you can see QWilloughby Gap..."


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Zand said:


> "And over there you can see QWilloughby Gap..."




Yeah, don't give them any ideas.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

I can't believe I took 5 minutes to do this...


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> I can't believe I took 5 minutes to do this...



That's awesome!  :lol:  If I get a package from you, FTN, I will know what it is!  :lol:


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> I can't believe I took 5 minutes to do this...



You sir, are the winner.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 20, 2013)

Zand said:


> "And over there you can see QWilloughby Gap..."


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 20, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> I can't believe I took 5 minutes to do this...



Do you have them in production yet?  :smile:

http://www.rushordertees.com/custom/fast-shirts/


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 20, 2013)

Fixed it for you...


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 20, 2013)




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## jaysunn (Dec 20, 2013)

Lol


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

I'm just going to sit right here.


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## oldtimer (Dec 20, 2013)

I need a dozen of the sweat shirts.


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## dlague (Dec 20, 2013)

Funny this conversation happen in the Big Burke Announcement thread during the summer but was not as colorful as this one!  thetrailboss - look what you started! :roll:


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

dlague said:


> Funny this conversation happen in the Big Burke Announcement thread during the summer but was not as colorful as this one!  thetrailboss - look what you started! :roll:



Don't thank me...thank Q2!


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## oldtimer (Dec 20, 2013)

Can Q2 generate as many posts here at AZ in a week as Magic did in it's worst month?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> Can Q2 generate as many posts here at AZ in a week as Magic did in it's worst month?




Please, let's not challenge him!


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2013)

Here's the WCAX video I've referred to:

http://www.wcax.com/story/23920473/building-a-new-kingdom-part-4


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## OldsnowboarderME (Dec 20, 2013)

I kind of like the new name .. rolls off the tongue.


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## MVinME (Dec 20, 2013)

Dumbest, most self serving name in the history of the uniburse...


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## OldsnowboarderME (Dec 20, 2013)

QBert on skis would make a great mascot for the mountain ..


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## billski (Dec 20, 2013)

I skied Burke today (I will always call it Burke).  Indeed, all the logos, names, merchandise is being re-branded to "Q Burke".  I've seen them all.  Pretty much all the old signage and gear has been cast off.  No more teddy bears.  I'm OK with change, but I don't see any any advantage to this new name.  In the interest of preserving the old but bringing in the new, I would have voted for BurQe if they must have their name attached.  An obvious alternative, shot down early I suspect.   

Oh and the new nasty looking bear, we'll that's going to take some time to warm up to.

I'll write more on the lodge and changes tomorrow (including the leather couch and fake fireplace).  Right now I have to go post travel/weather conditions.


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## dlague (Dec 21, 2013)

billski said:


> I'll write more on the lodge and changes tomorrow (including the leather couch and fake fireplace).  Right now I have to go post travel/weather conditions.



Mid Burke? I hope not!


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## thetrailboss (Dec 21, 2013)

billski said:


> I skied Burke today (I will always call it Burke).  Indeed, all the logos, names, merchandise is being re-branded to "Q Burke".  I've seen them all.  Pretty much all the old signage and gear has been cast off.  No more teddy bears.  I'm OK with change, but I don't see any any advantage to this new name.  In the interest of preserving the old but bringing in the new, I would have voted for BurQe if they must have their name attached.  An obvious alternative, shot down early I suspect.
> 
> Oh and the new nasty looking bear, we'll that's going to take some time to warm up to.
> 
> I'll write more on the lodge and changes tomorrow (including the leather couch and fake fireplace).  Right now I have to go post travel/weather conditions.



Did you drive up to Mid-Burke to find that there are no more ticket sales there?  That is another "change" that will probably not be liked.  They had a good compromise with one cashier selling sundries, coffee, and tickets at Bear Den.  But then again this is progress or is it regression?


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 21, 2013)

From a business perspective, I can see his view on how there needs to be change. 5 owners in 20 years? Something isn't working here, and something needs to be changed to make a profit. 

I don't think transforming Burke from a ski area to a ski resort will work though, it's just not big enough, unless a massive expansion is part of a 5 year plan

Right now he seems to be pissing so many people off that I wouldn't be surprised if some of his long time employees either quit or were fired for refusing to call it "Q Burke."

I would hate to see Burke being added to NELSAP in a few years because of an over-aggressive expansion that didn't bring in new customers and drove away the old ones.


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## billski (Dec 21, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Did you drive up to Mid-Burke to find that there are no more ticket sales there?  That is another "change" that will probably not be liked.  They had a good compromise with one cashier selling sundries, coffee, and tickets at Bear Den.  But then again this is progress or is it regression?



I knew that going into this.  It won't surprise me to see that building removed or replaced.   They are trying to drive business down to the main lodge - that's where all the services (read: money) is.


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## billski (Dec 21, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> From a business perspective, I can see his view on how there needs to be change. 5 owners in 20 years? Something isn't working here, and something needs to be changed to make a profit.
> 
> I don't think transforming Burke from a ski area to a ski resort will work though, it's just not big enough, unless a massive expansion is part of a 5 year plan
> 
> ...



The thing I worry the most about is the friendly, casual vibe the place always had.   I'm absolutely with them that this is a business, not a non-profit institution.  There have to be changes.  And of course people are resistant to change.  

Having been through cultural transformations, more than once at my own place of employment, we have to recognize that if we don't please the customers, and give them a reason to come, well, there goes the business.   So while employees may be bothered, (that's part of the loss process:  grief, anger, resignation, etc., the essential issue is, what's the long-term strategy?  To build a strategy, you have to define who your customer base is.  What people do you want to attract?  And then, can you get them to come?   What's the compelling reason for me to go to Burke?

Everything I've heard from the JPR industry reps in this thread is very near-term, tactical.  I'd like to see the strategic plan; the vision.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 22, 2013)

billski said:


> The thing I worry the most about is the friendly, casual vibe the place always had.   I'm absolutely with them that this is a business, not a non-profit institution.  There have to be changes.  And of course people are resistant to change.
> 
> Having been through cultural transformations, more than once at my own place of employment, we have to recognize that if we don't please the customers, and give them a reason to come, well, there goes the business.   So while employees may be bothered, (that's part of the loss process:  grief, anger, resignation, etc., the essential issue is, what's the long-term strategy?  To build a strategy, you have to define who your customer base is.  What people do you want to attract?  And then, can you get them to come?   What's the compelling reason for me to go to Burke?
> 
> Everything I've heard from the JPR industry reps in this thread is very near-term, tactical.  I'd like to see the strategic plan; the vision.



See my post in the other thread.  To say that people are upset about change is a gross oversimplification.  The real issue is the community-mountain relationship.


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## snoseek (Dec 22, 2013)

from FB today:       Dear Kingdom Trails Supporters,
 We would like to thank everybody who has voiced their support, concern, and willingness to help out over the past few days. Few organizations enjoy such a demonstrative, loyal membership. For that we feel truly thankful and humbled.
 In regards to some of the comments that we’ve seen online in the past few days, we want to put a plug in for our community, many of who...m include our friends who work at the mountain. The employees and management of QBurke Mountain Resort are a big part of our community here. We have, in most cases, worked with these folks for years. They’re our neighbors, friends, co-workers, and family members. While we respect your decisions in terms of voting with your wallet, we want you to know that everyone in this community, including Kingdom Trails, would feel the impact if you choose to enjoy your outdoor recreation- including skiing and snowboarding- elsewhere. Please don’t let the events of the past few days change your plans for the winter. We ski at and ride Burke, and plan on continuing to do so.
 We also want to assure our users that cooler heads will prevail. Interested parties have reached out and stated that they would like to seek a resolution to our current situation. We are encouraged by the news, and look forward to a conversation that explores any future collaborations with QBurke that would best serve our community, our users, and our organizations.
 We wish you all a happy holiday season, and hope to see you at the KT Nordic Adventure Center on Darling Hill soon.

 Sincerely,
 The staff and Directors of Kingdom


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## thetrailboss (Dec 22, 2013)

New article on VTDigger.  And the cooler head was Bill Stenger whom I'm sure pulled Q2 aside on Friday and had a few words.


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## tmcc71 (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm a former Burke/jay skiier and still a kingdom trails biker.  I moved on to Sunday river/sugarloaf pass after the dinsneyfication of jay and them acquiring Burke.  The writing was on the wall.   Now they sever ties with the organization that put Burke on the map (kingdom trails) and further confirm my suspicions that they do not care about the community.  I'm not against them making money but I don't like what they stand for now.  I'm happy to have found a new community in loaf and Sunday river and have no regrets.  I know dozens of families who have jumped ship from jay/Burke and moved on to other communities.  Its a real shame.    I will still support kingdom trails but never q Burke (gag)  or. Q Burke bike park.


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## DPhelan (Dec 23, 2013)

their marketing q-partment should be q-barrassed.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 23, 2013)

DPhelan said:


> their marketing q-partment should be q-barrassed.


Their marketing dept has nothing to do with this. It is all on the CEO.


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## DPhelan (Dec 23, 2013)

why even have departments if you're going to unilaterally make stupid decisions that impact everyone in your qompany? uke:


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 23, 2013)

Somebody has to exeQute orders. Even if they are redicQlous.


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## DPhelan (Dec 23, 2013)

is this the ceo?


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## C-Rex (Dec 23, 2013)

dphelan said:


> is this the ceo?





bahahahahahaha!!!


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## ScottySkis (Dec 23, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> bahahahahahaha!!!



He have to be chill Q so I doubt he ever touch MJ.


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## C-Rex (Dec 23, 2013)

Scotty said:


> He have to be chill Q so I doubt he ever touch MJ.




Scotty, that's a pen, not a joint.  That's Q from the Bond movies...


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## canobie#1 (Dec 23, 2013)

The people aren't backing down on this.  Many complaints about it on their facebook wall.  It sucks that they are ruining jay and burke.  I am fine with a nice hotel a couple amenities but this is getting ridiculous.


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## mbedle (Dec 23, 2013)

That is Funny - I remember playing this in high school on the Jersey Shore. 



wa-loaf said:


> New QBurke logo
> View attachment 9883


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 23, 2013)

The more I keep hearing about Q Jr. The more I keep coming back to this... Headphones-NSFW audio:


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## KD7000 (Dec 23, 2013)

Thread title needs to be changed to *"FUH Q BURKE"*


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## ScottySkis (Dec 23, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> The more I keep hearing about Q Jr. The more I keep coming back to this... Headphones-NSFW audio:



This movie is historical.


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## Edd (Dec 23, 2013)

Scotty said:


> This movie is historical.



Yep, that's the post of the day.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 23, 2013)

DPhelan said:


> why even have departments if you're going to unilaterally make stupid decisions that impact everyone in your qompany? uke:



Exaqtly!


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## darent (Dec 23, 2013)

well said scotty!!


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## stomachdoc (Dec 23, 2013)

*Marketing Class*

Seems like good fodder for a marketing class in business school.  Companies do change names all the time, particularly when they want to get away from negative thoughts about a brand name (Tyco, Enron, etc.).  The vast majority of folks who've heard of and skied at Burke are fond of the place, and aren't likely to be scared away by the multiple owners over the years, etc. There's no reason to call it QBurke; and that's not a warm and cuddly "ski name."  

Can't figure out the Kingdom Trails thing; I would venture that Kingdom Trails brings way more folks into the NEK than does the mountain, er, QBurke Mountain Resort.  Lots of my buddies from Waterville Valley head up to Mountain Bike at Burke in the summer, but when they leave Waterville Valley to ski elsewhere in the winter, it's Cannon or Jay, etc.

Hopefully this CEO has advisors around him who he will listen to.  The main thing that's kept Burke afloat for the past 20 years are the loyal, and in many case local, customers.  Alienating them will get that place NELSAP'd in no time.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 24, 2013)




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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 24, 2013)

Actually pretty cool to see how this guy did that!

http://www.viralnova.com/simon-beck-snow-art/


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## octopus (Dec 27, 2013)

Q Burke sent me an email today. i can't believe they're seriously going with that name.


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## SKI-3PO (Dec 28, 2013)

I saw the name looking at Liftopia tickets - it's ridiculous!  I don't understand what they think the new name gets them.  For example, I'd be more than happy to walk around with a Burke T-shirt and give them free advertising, but they couldn't pay me to wear a Q-shirt.


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## billski (Dec 28, 2013)

SKI-3PO said:


> I'd be more than happy to walk around with a Burke T-shirt and give them free advertising, but they couldn't pay me to wear a Q-shirt.



I wear my Burke/Vermont Hoodie (I believe I got it at the General Store in town) weekly.  I even sleep in it sometimes (true), not that I'm in bed with them  

I walqed into their new store at the base lodqe and everythinq has the new name and loqo, save for some sticqers in the corner.  I bouqht some wax, made a u-turn and left.  I'll still ski there (until they breaq somethinq fundamental) but I'm not about to stroqe someone's eqo by wearing their name.


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## BLESS (Dec 28, 2013)

serious "Q"uestion, is the Quiros family from "Q'uebec?  Its the only logical idea I can come up with that would make him insist on using this "Q" name......a play on words if you will, as if you say it fast, "QBurke"  could sound like "Quebec"  In which case it would make a whole lot more sense to me and actually be kinda funny.


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## Mpdsnowman (Dec 28, 2013)

Lol well if I were the letter "Q" in the alphabet I would be pumped right now. Christ he hasnt had that much attention since scrabble came out lol. He..or She's gotta be pumped... "Q" just knocked that "A" right off the top of the alphabet tree with all this attention lol...

I really dont even know what the "Q" is in reference too. The CEO's last name?? dont get it....

But I really dont have a problem with Jay investing all that money into the area. As long as they keep the people and feel of the place.....and a little fancy upgrade wont hurt. I kinda have to stand behind Jay in reference of what has been going on there over the past four years. I mean they simply knocked down some old stuff and put up some new stuff is all...I still find they have great prices on lift tix even when you walk up to get one.....and the waterpark is great....kids love it...

If they do...sort of what they did at Jay I think it will be a good advanced upgrade for the area....

Many individuals dont accept change...yet change happens every day in our lives....When I was at UTC I gave everyone in my dept this book... http://www.amazon.com/Who-Moved-My-Cheese-Amazing/dp/0399144463
Why?? because I know change is a constant and if one is prepared on how"they" would handle change, then life has no boundaries...


I say give this some time. I say dont overreact and see how it plays out. I think it will be ok....


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2013)

Again MPD, it is not just about change...it is more complicated than that.


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## Mpdsnowman (Dec 29, 2013)

but whats the complication....I dont get it....Jay bought burke, they are making changes, upgrades... The mountain will still be the mountain and the snow will still be the snow.....and the people will be the people....

If adding a "Q" in front of a word indicates complcation, maybe what some people should do is substitute the word complication for progression.....because really thats what this industry is all about...progression....in a good way of course lol...

I plan on riding burke in early feb on my way north to jay.....im looking forward to it since ive hiked the thing several times but never but a ski or board on it...


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2013)

Mpdsnowman said:


> but whats the complication....I dont get it....Jay bought burke, they are making changes, upgrades... The mountain will still be the mountain and the snow will still be the snow.....and the people will be the people....
> 
> If adding a "Q" in front of a word indicates complcation, maybe what some people should do is substitute the word complication for progression.....because really thats what this industry is all about...progression....in a good way of course lol...
> 
> I plan on riding burke in early feb on my way north to jay.....im looking forward to it since ive hiked the thing several times but never but a ski or board on it...



You need to go to the other thread and look a bit.  It's again, much more than that.

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/18/burke-resort-cuts-ties-mountain-biking-trails-network/

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uvmba/jM5cnYOfTh0 (second post down is the response from Ary to a group of bikers)

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/22/q-burke-kingdom-trails-mend/

If you read all that, consider that folks have not had a good experience thus far with them this season, and consider that Ary was going to not issue employees comp season passes, and you think it's OK, then I'd understand.


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## Mpdsnowman (Dec 29, 2013)

Ok thanks for the links now I understand...Mountainbiking and the KT system....

Four years ago I put on a mountain bike meet at burke during the Summer. There were about 20 of them. We stayed at the campground at the base of the road. One morning I decided to hike up the mountain. Honestly I felt the real value was the KT system and the landowners who had the best and most travelled trails. The mountain itself didnt really have much to offer in comparison to below except for the trail that goes off the backside and the road witch the road warriors like to ride up and down on lol.

You know what I did find funny. The response he sent via email was sent from a yahoo server rather than burkes internal system....makes me wonder.....

But regardless the CEO just shot himself in the foot and cut his throat at the same time. Stenger is involved now, im sure they will negotiate the contract and in fact this little situation might actually strengthen the KT non profit and at the same time benefit the resort..

You wont need to worry about ary in a year or two. They move on all the time. 

Lol funny I didnt realize when I took this photo I was shooting nostalgic history...I would imaging a Q is going if not already on the sign...


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## halfpintvt (Dec 29, 2013)

I'd like to see the new CEO of Q-Burke take a page out of the "Ed Koch" playbook and walk around Burke Mountain asking "So how am I doing?" I wonder what kind of feedback he'd get? Might learn something useful (both good and not so good).


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## canobie#1 (Dec 29, 2013)

^too many people would bash him into the ground.


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## Mpdsnowman (Dec 30, 2013)

Well the reality is the local input usually wins out. And I see no exception in this senario. I mean those trails are beautiful. But they are beautiful because of the agreements and maintenance by the land owners and others involved ie: the locals. The mountain I found to be kinda limited on trials for biking...





Now I didnt ride any bike down this. I hiked down it, step for step. It was for sure a trail for the extreme expert if we choose to use such a term...some spots no way with all that mud was any bike getting thru there... would I want to take a chair lift up to the top to ride down it on my bike?? no. 

One thing I will say in the resorts defence. in no way is 20 bucks a person enough to cover the cost of running that lift for whose going up there. Its not like you have 100 people waiting in gated lines like the tram at jay lol...I dont think anyway...so for them to say lets add more money I could see that being valid...maybe a little too valid so really why even need the lift....imo..


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 30, 2013)

I don't know the specific $ numbers but I would think, if they kept the $35 ticket, and something like $27 went to Burke and $8 went to KT would seem like a good compromise. Riders having to put up $15 for a full KT day pass for those that "might ride the non-lift served trails" on the mountain at some point in the day seems to be a bit of overkill. Running a lift is expensive.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 30, 2013)

halfpintvt said:


> I'd like to see the new CEO of Q-Burke take a page out of the "Ed Koch" playbook and walk around Burke Mountain asking "So how am I doing?" I wonder what kind of feedback he'd get? Might learn something useful (both good and not so good).



Not going to happen.


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