# Ski Market files Chapter 11



## Geoff (Jan 2, 2010)

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/01/02/ski_market_files_for_bankruptcy/



> During its 2009 fiscal year, from April 1, 2008 through March 31, 2009, Ski Market reported $22.5 million in gross sales. From April 2009 through mid-December, the company’s gross sales were less than $7 million, *putting it on pace for at least a 50 percent drop in sales*, and possibly much more, as Ferguson wrote that November and December are usually the stores’ busiest months.





> According to court filings, Ski Market owes $4 million to South Shore Savings Bank and just more than $1 million to other creditors. The company also owes $610,000 in rent for its existing locations and carries $4.5 million in trade debt.



A seriously crappy Christmas season.   I'm sure the super-warm November was not kind to ski shops anywhere in the Northeast.   You then pile on the recession and it's a recipe for business failures.


----------



## speden (Jan 2, 2010)

That's a bummer.  I pick up stuff there from time to time.  I hope they can at least keep the Boston area stores open.

Probably internet sales have cut into their business as well.

We just picked up a new helmet for my wife last week, and noticed they had a really small inventory to choose from.


----------



## RISkier (Jan 2, 2010)

I've noticed the inventory at the Ski Market in Warwick was pretty limited as well. No doubt the overall economic climate combined with internet shopping has really hurt shops like this. I think it's really tough for smaller local brick and mortars to complete on price. Everyone shops as Walmart, Target, Lowes, Home Depot, Amazon, etc., etc. Where smaller stores might compete is in terms of knowledge and value added service and Ski Market (at least the one in Warwick) didn't offer that. My wife and I had skis tuned there and could barely ski on them afterward. Very bad tunes. They completely botched the install of some hottronics. The sales staff doesn't know anything about their product. It is sad to see all of the local stores like this going down the tubes, however.


----------



## rtibbs4 (Jan 2, 2010)

I stopped buying there a few years ago. I rarely saw a sale on something I wanted and their prices on the things I did want we're high. I think they underestimated their competition and the results the economy would have on ski gear purchases.


----------



## madriverjack (Jan 2, 2010)

The shop in Latham NY closed up this past spring.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 2, 2010)

The one in Avon CT is more like a clothing store than a ski shop. About 95% of the floor space is for clothing, and the ski / boot selection is very small. Prices are also way too high. The same pair of skis is ussually about 10% to 15% cheaper at my local shop, and that's before my local guy starts to wheel and deal.

But the boot fitter there (Dave Newman) does really know his stuff.


----------



## severine (Jan 2, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> The one in Avon CT is more like a clothing store than a ski shop. About 95% of the floor space is for clothing, and the ski / boot selection is very small. Prices are also way too high. The same pair of skis is ussually about 10% to 15% cheaper at my local shop, and that's before my local guy starts to wheel and deal.
> 
> But the boot fitter there (Dave Newman) does really know his stuff.


Agreed. They're not my first choice for goods, but Dave Newman worked wonders when he made my last set of footbeds and I learned a lot from him.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 2, 2010)

severine said:


> Agreed. They're not my first choice for goods, but Dave Newman worked wonders when he made my last set of footbeds and I learned a lot from him.



If that store closes, maybe Dave N will open his own shop again.


----------



## severine (Jan 2, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> If that store closes, maybe Dave N will open his own shop again.


We can only hope so! Would hate to lose an asset like Dave, especially when it's so hard to find a good bootfitter in the CT area!


----------



## jack97 (Jan 2, 2010)

severine said:


> Agreed. They're not my first choice for goods, but Dave Newman worked wonders when he made my last set of footbeds and I learned a lot from him.





MR. evil said:


> If that store closes, maybe Dave N will open his own shop again.



Truth be told, I feel neutral about ski market filing for chap 11. The place has not adapted to the ever changing market place, in this case, stagnation killed its business. I feel for the people out of job and given its long history in this area, I feel another bit of my past has been lost. 

Having said that, we need more ski shops that are service oriented, places that have expert boot fitting, a place to exhange use kids equipement,maybe even soft goods and fair pricing overall. Ski Hauss offers that around my area and look at the loyalty it commanded over the past couple of weeks.... JMHO


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 2, 2010)

They really missed the boat with Internet sales.


----------



## hrstrat57 (Jan 2, 2010)

I used to do a fair amount of biz w ski market Warwick.

Used to be pretty solid had a core group of sales folks who were pretty knowledgeable and helpful.

IMHO ski market got blown away by ebay and online businesses. They never adjusted pricing to compete or in lieu of adjusting pricing dialed up the service and quality of the sales staff to justify the high prices.  

For me, a knowledgeable consumer and a former binding tech as well why would I pay double money to buy gear from a shop that doesn't provide me a reason to go there? My LSS that I faithfully supported went under a few years ago....I no longer considered ski market a LSS.

Ebay or online deals for me.

My last pair of skis I bought from dawgcatching on epicski who owns and operates a LSS in Oregon....I told him my weight, sole size and type of boot and the skis came dialed in perfectly from the shop..... the savings were fantastic and the communication with a shop 3000 miles away was much better than I had any hope of receiving at the local ski market.

I hope they reorganize and come up with a better business model.......


----------



## snowmonster (Jan 2, 2010)

This sux! I hope they don't close down the Boston store and that they reorganize from there. For all the complaints people had about SkiMarket, I have had the opposite experience with them. I got great quality gear from them at very good prices at less than internet rates. I'm pretty much a gear price watcher and would swoop into the Boston store when things went on sale. I knew they were in trouble when I went into the store and there were hardly any new skis in stock.


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 2, 2010)

People have metioned internet buying of skis and such....I try very hard to NOT buy on the internet. When I'm in the market for skis I do "shopping" on the net then try to buy from a local shop using the internet pricing. As long as I get within 50 bucks I'm buying from a person and not this damn computer. I gotta touch it and see it with my own eyes plus I get the benefit of having a human available if there's a problem. Try it next time----maybe we can keep these shops in biz.


----------



## severine (Jan 2, 2010)

It all depends, camp. I've bought skis on the internet that there was no way a local retailer could touch the price (mostly because they were leftover stock from a previous year and no longer available locally). However, the last pair of skis I did buy in a bricks & mortar who beat the online prices by a larger margin--and they have a guarantee that they will match legit retailers' prices as well. That makes a difference. I would love to be a staunch supporter of the shops that do right by me but the bottom line is the bottom line, to an extent. We're a single-income family of 4--can't afford to overpay. That said, service goes a long way.


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 2, 2010)

severine said:


> It all depends, camp. I've bought skis on the internet that there was no way a local retailer could touch the price (mostly because they were leftover stock from a previous year and no longer available locally). However, the last pair of skis I did buy in a bricks & mortar who beat the online prices by a larger margin--and they have a guarantee that they will match legit retailers' prices as well. That makes a difference. I would love to be a staunch supporter of the shops that do right by me but the bottom line is the bottom line, to an extent. We're a single-income family of 4--can't afford to overpay. That said, service goes a long way.



True, you bring up a great point, leftover stock is tough for shops to be competetive unless they happen to have access to them. I know my local shop (closed now) was part of a co-op so many times they could get more than what you saw on the racks, but you had to ask (if I wasn't friends with the owner I would've never known that). I think it's great you at least try to give your local shops a shot at the biz. Being in retail myself I know that means alot to the owners. I also agree that service is worth a few bucks, but like you ssaid not to the point of overpaying.


----------



## billski (Jan 2, 2010)

The best shops are and always have been closest to the slopes


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 2, 2010)

billski said:


> The best shops are and always have been closest to the slopes



Really???


----------



## ccskier (Jan 2, 2010)

I have always looked at Ski Market as a cracker jack shop.  I did buy my new boots there at end of last season due to convenience.  Overall they are kinda the Home Depot of the ski shops.  I say that the local ski area shops get a better grade product than their stuff.  Good riddance to them.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Jan 2, 2010)

billski said:


> The best shops are and always have been closest to the slopes



Hmmm, maybe people wise, but my experience is that on hill/access road ski shops are generally expensive and not worth looking at, well until the end of season closeout deals.


----------



## billski (Jan 2, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Really???



9 times out of ten yes!   Not necessarily the lowest price but expert at equipment and sizing you up.  Dudes mostly ski 7 days a week.  
Worst overall are closest to major metro areas. 
Yes!  There are exceptions but very very few


----------



## Geoff (Jan 2, 2010)

billski said:


> 9 times out of ten yes!   Not necessarily the lowest price but expert at equipment and sizing you up.  Dudes mostly ski 7 days a week.
> Worst overall are closest to major metro areas.
> Yes!  There are exceptions but very very few



I agree with that 100%.  We have the perpetual thread here about boot fitters.   There's *one* guy who gets recommended in metro-Boston.   At Killington, I can name a half-dozen off the top of my head who are really competent.   Why would a good boot fitter want to live in Boston or Hartford or New York City?


----------



## severine (Jan 2, 2010)

Geoff said:


> I agree with that 100%.  We have the perpetual thread here about boot fitters.   There's *one* guy who gets recommended in metro-Boston.   At Killington, I can name a half-dozen off the top of my head who are really competent.   Why would a good boot fitter want to live in Boston or Hartford or New York City?


I can agree with that sentiment, however many of us don't have the time to travel 3-4 hours _one way_ multiple times for a bootfitting experience either. MR. evil and I both had excellent experiences with Dave Newman, who is mentioned in this thread and did run an independent ski shop before joining the team at our local Ski Market. When you find someone who knows what they're doing who is within a 30-minute drive instead of 2 states away, you don't care with whom they're affiliated--but you certainly don't want to see them go away either.


----------



## darent (Jan 2, 2010)

hrstrat57 said:


> I used to do a fair amount of biz w ski market Warwick.
> 
> Used to be pretty solid had a core group of sales folks who were pretty knowledgeable and helpful.
> 
> ...



+2 on dawgcatching. no runaround just good service from across the country!


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Jan 3, 2010)

In addition to Ski Market's retail stores they operate bus tours every week. We get them here at the Bush midweek I assume that means the bus trips are no more but I'm going to check, maybe it's a separate business. They are also major sponsors of the Boston Bay Center Ski Show in late fall so I imagine their filing Chapter 11 will effect that as well.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 3, 2010)

Randi and I stopped by the Avon store today to use the remainder of some store credit we have. We were told that until the state of CT rules on the Chapter 11 filing that they would not honor gift cards and store credit. We are lucky that there was only a small amount od store credit on the card, about $40 or so. But I feel for anyone that recieved a ski market gift card for Xmas. Seems a little funny that they filed right after Xmas and may never have to honor those giftcards


----------



## Geoff (Jan 3, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> In addition to Ski Market's retail stores they operate bus tours every week. We get them here at the Bush midweek I assume that means the bus trips are no more but I'm going to check, maybe it's a separate business. They are also major sponsors of the Boston Bay Center Ski Show in late fall so I imagine their filing Chapter 11 will effect that as well.



They filed Chapter 11.   That means they are trying to stiff their creditors, not close the doors.   I would be pretty surprised if they stopped their bus trips since those generate foot traffic in their stores.


----------



## o3jeff (Jan 3, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> Randi and I stopped by the Avon store today to use the remainder of some store credit we have. We were told that until the state of CT rules on the Chapter 11 filing that they would not honor gift cards and store credit. We are lucky that there was only a small amount od store credit on the card, about $40 or so. But I feel for anyone that recieved a ski market gift card for Xmas. Seems a little funny that they filed right after Xmas and may never have to honor those giftcards



That blows that they are able to get away with shit like this. Should of wrote them a bad check, then mail them their store credit.as payment.


----------



## MommaBear (Jan 3, 2010)

They lost our business this year when they closed their Manchester store for good last spring.  Until then, we bought most of our stuff from them over the years.  We found the gear decent and the service excellent.  Any problems were addressed quickly and efficiently.

We checked out the Avon store when we finally returned our son's leased package this summer.  Its a drive from here and we found the staff on that day to be impatient, full of hot air and uninterested in making a sale.  We did buy a board on sale (with no thanks given to the sales guy) but ended up returning it when we found the same board (last year's model) in a slightly smaller size for a LOT less at REI in West Hartford.  Haven't been back to Ski Market since.  The attitude we got is certainly not worth the trip.

If they aren't honoring gift cards,  guess we can kiss our rewards credits good-bye.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 3, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> That blows that they are able to get away with shit like this. Should of wrote them a bad check, then mail them their store credit.as payment.



I was told that they may eventually honor it depending on how the state rules on the filing. Though my gut tells me they never will honor it, and then use the state ruling as some BS excuse no matter how the state rules.


----------



## RISkier (Jan 3, 2010)

I SUSPECT gift cards and store creditswill ultimately be accepted.  Whether or not there will be anything you want to use them on may be another question.


----------



## severine (Jan 3, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> Randi and I stopped by the Avon store today to use the remainder of some store credit we have. We were told that until the state of CT rules on the Chapter 11 filing that they would not honor gift cards and store credit. We are lucky that there was only a small amount od store credit on the card, about $40 or so. But I feel for anyone that recieved a ski market gift card for Xmas. Seems a little funny that they filed right after Xmas and may never have to honor those giftcards


Very disappointing. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## powhunter (Jan 3, 2010)

wonder if they honor coupons for ski tune ups


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 3, 2010)

powhunter said:


> wonder if they honor coupons for ski tune ups



They were today, that was the other reason went.


----------



## dropKickMurphy (Jan 3, 2010)

Geoff said:


> .... Why would a good boot fitter want to live in Boston or Hartford or New York City?



Because that's where most of his potential customers are?


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 3, 2010)

severine said:


> Very disappointing. Thanks for the heads up!



i wonder if they are honoring the free tune up that came with my sundown pass. was planning to use it this week... guess a call will be necessary before heading up there.


----------



## severine (Jan 3, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> i wonder if they are honoring the free tune up that came with my sundown pass. was planning to use it this week... guess a call will be necessary before heading up there.



Looks like they did for Tim today. I would act on that because the other free tune at Ski Tunes included some pretty unsatisfactory customer service.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 3, 2010)

severine said:


> Very disappointing. Thanks for the heads up!



We were just lucky that we used the bulk of the store credit a couple of weeks ago and only had a little left. I would have been really pissed if we still had several hundred dollars of store
credit and they wouldn't honor it.


----------



## Geoff (Jan 3, 2010)

RISkier said:


> I SUSPECT gift cards and store creditswill ultimately be accepted.  Whether or not there will be anything you want to use them on may be another question.



Consumers are usually the first in line in a Chapter 11.   No judge is going to approve a re-org plan that stiffs people with gift certificates and store credits.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 3, 2010)

severine said:


> Looks like they did for Tim today. I would act on that because the other free tune at Ski Tunes included some pretty unsatisfactory customer service.



The tune vouchers for both stores expire 1/31. So make sure to use them this month. Once we get these skis back the bump skis
will go in to SkiTunes.


----------



## MR. evil (Jan 3, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Consumers are usually the first in line in a Chapter 11.   No judge is going to approve a re-org plan that stiffs people with gift certificates and store credits.



Ya, it's only ok to stiff their creditors millions.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Jan 3, 2010)

Geoff said:


> http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/01/02/ski_market_files_for_bankruptcy/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If your talking about the ski biz, haven't seen any news yet but retail sales nationally this past holiday shopping season was up 6.3%(combined online, phone and in-store sales) over last year, twice the rate the wizards of wall street expected/predicted.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/185553/holiday_related_online_sales_grew_15_percent_in_2009.html


----------



## Geoff (Jan 3, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> If your talking about the ski biz, haven't seen any news yet but retail sales nationally this past holiday shopping season was up 6.3% over last year, twice the rate the wizards of wall street expected/predicted.



Which makes them down about 2% from 2007.   The whole "the world is ending" psychology turned 6 months ago.   People started spending again after grinding it to a halt for a year.   

For the ski biz around me, it's way off from a few years ago when the dollar was way down against the pound & Euro and Europeans were spending money like the high rollers in Aspen.


----------



## billski (Jan 3, 2010)

Chap 11 follows a fairly uniform hierarchy of stakeholders.  Employees And customers first then vendors then debt and lastly shareholders.  It is likely any money losing progrns will be canned and operations significantly downsized.  They try to do it quickly so as not to lose sales momentum.  30 days is aggressive 60 is typical and 90 plus is for the most complicated.  Until then, everything is in limbo.  Google "chapter 11 reorganization" for more.


----------



## mondeo (Jan 3, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> People have metioned internet buying of skis and such....I try very hard to NOT buy on the internet. When I'm in the market for skis I do "shopping" on the net then try to buy from a local shop using the internet pricing. As long as I get within 50 bucks I'm buying from a person and not this damn computer. I gotta touch it and see it with my own eyes plus I get the benefit of having a human available if there's a problem. Try it next time----maybe we can keep these shops in biz.


If I feel the need to step into a shop for any reason in the course of a purchase, I'll buy from a shop. One of the reasons they are higher priced is you're paying for the service. Getting the service and then buying somewhere else sorta seems like stealing to me. If it's something I don't need to see or touch, I'll buy online. Poles, bindings, I'll go for the best price. At least with bindings I'm still paying a shop for the mount. My first helmet I bought from a shop because I needed to figure out the fit, second helmet was another Smith so I figured it'd be close in fit to the previous one and went online. And so on.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Jan 3, 2010)

billski said:


> Chap 11 follows a fairly uniform hierarchy of stakeholders.  Employees And customers first then vendors then debt and lastly shareholders.  It is likely any money losing progrns will be canned and operations significantly downsized.  They try to do it quickly so as not to lose sales momentum.  30 days is aggressive 60 is typical and 90 plus is for the most complicated.  Until then, everything is in limbo.  Google "chapter 11 reorganization" for more.



I think the IRS and the lawyers are at the front of the line.


----------



## snowmonster (Jan 4, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> We get them here at the Bush midweek I assume that means the bus trips are no more but I'm going to check, maybe it's a separate business.


The SkiMarket bus trips are done through another company, SnoSearch. I use these folks to arrange school ski trips.


----------



## Philpug (Jan 4, 2010)

I am looking for a ceramic edging machine....I wonder if they have one.


----------



## RISkier (Jan 4, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Consumers are usually the first in line in a Chapter 11.   No judge is going to approve a re-org plan that stiffs people with gift certificates and store credits.



I'm certainly not knowledgeable about what happens under chapter 11 but in other cases I've usually seen things like gift cards and store credits being among the first in line.


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 4, 2010)

billski said:


> 9 times out of ten yes!   Not necessarily the lowest price but expert at equipment and sizing you up.  Dudes mostly ski 7 days a week.
> Worst overall are closest to major metro areas.
> Yes!  There are exceptions but very very few



Most of the dishwashers closest to the Mt ski 7 days a week too----are they the best dishwashers???


----------



## Geoff (Jan 4, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Most of the dishwashers closest to the Mt ski 7 days a week too----are they the best dishwashers???



Lame line of reasoning.

A qualified boot fitter is the highest paid guy in the shop.   It's one of the few non-management skiing-related service jobs that doesn't involve pouring or serving alcohol that pays well enough that ou can actually earn a living at it without working 3 jobs.   Like anywhere else, "dishwasher" is a minimum wage job.


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 4, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Lame line of reasoning.
> 
> A qualified boot fitter is the highest paid guy in the shop.   It's one of the few non-management skiing-related service jobs that doesn't involve pouring or serving alcohol that pays well enough that ou can actually earn a living at it without working 3 jobs.   Like anywhere else, "dishwasher" is a minimum wage job.



Sorry dude, don't take it personal. Was talking in broad terms like Billski---that is all.


----------



## hrstrat57 (Jan 4, 2010)

darent said:


> +2 on dawgcatching. no runaround just good service from across the country!



Yep Village Ski and Sports is a LSS.....just not local to us....

Dawg(Scott) is the bomb!!!


----------



## skidmarks (Jan 4, 2010)

Philpug said:


> I am looking for a ceramic edging machine....I wonder if they have one.



Get a Wintersteiger Trim 91 if you can find one. I does a great job


----------

