# Blocked P-paths



## Greg (Jun 2, 2009)

If you come across a blocked pussy path, it's blocked for a reason. Ride the "right" way and certainly don't go through the effort of unblocking.... :smash:


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## gmcunni (Jun 2, 2009)

oh, i thought this was kidney stones or prostate enlargement related.


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## JD (Jun 3, 2009)

Yes.  Trail Braiding sucks.


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## bvibert (Jun 3, 2009)

Or, even worse, unblocking it and then blocking the real trail. :smash:


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## 2knees (Jun 3, 2009)

pardon my ignorance, but why is it a big deal to unblock it?


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## o3jeff (Jun 3, 2009)

2knees said:


> pardon my ignorance, but why is it a big deal to unblock it?



It takes the challenge out of the trail.


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## JD (Jun 3, 2009)

The worn trail bed is our impact in any given area.  The trail is built and approved.  If a trail appears next to the original trail, it doubles our impact.  It is basic trail user 101.  Stay on the exsisting trail.  Also, people ride trails to be challenged.  Sometimes you get sucked into the GFR (girl friend route) and miss all the fun features you're there for.  If you can't ride it, walk your bike.


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## 2knees (Jun 3, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> It takes the challenge out of the trail.



but it doesnt prevent someone from still taking the "real" route.


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## severine (Jun 3, 2009)

Looks like I'll be doing a lot of walking when I finally get back on my bike. :lol:


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## 2knees (Jun 3, 2009)

JD said:


> The worn trail bed is our impact in any given area.  The trail is built and approved.  If a trail appears next to the original trail, it doubles our impact.  It is basic trail user 101.  Stay on the exsisting trail.  Also, people ride trails to be challenged.  Sometimes you get sucked into the GFR (girl friend route) and miss all the fun features you're there for.  If you can't ride it, walk your bike.



thanks for the explanation.


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## Greg (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm not much of a tree hugger type, but I look at it this way. There is a real misconception out there that mountain bikers cause significant trail damage and erosion. Multiple routes/shortcuts/pussypaths just compound this problem. If we want to preserve or hopefully expand the number of areas where we can ride (or not draw additional attention to areas where we are not supposed to...) respecting braid blocks is important. It's the same reason why I don't ride sensitive (read: muddy) areas when it's rained recently, and when I do come across a mucky section, I pedal lighty, try to ride any armoring that's in place, or just walk it.


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## JD (Jun 3, 2009)

what he said....


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## sLoPeS (Jun 3, 2009)

*its gonna happen...*

people who are just learning, dont ride much, or flat out just dont care, do not realize what they are doing and how it impacts the trails.  ive yelled at friends before and have been told to STFU!  my eyes nearly came out of their sockets.  u almost have to dummy-proof the trails, and make it very clear that this is the trail.  thorn bushes do the job 99% of the time.


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## bvibert (Jun 3, 2009)

sLoPeS said:


> people who are just learning, dont ride much, or flat out just dont care, do not realize what they are doing and how it impacts the trails.  ive yelled at friends before and have been told to STFU!  my eyes nearly came out of their sockets.  u almost have to dummy-proof the trails, and make it very clear that this is the trail.  thorn bushes do the job 99% of the time.



The path that Greg is talking about was really more of a short work trail to cut off part of a loop.  Some guys used it when they were building bridges and such near by.  It inadvertently got ridden more and more until it looked like part of the real trail, I even rode it a few times not knowing any better.  A week ago or so a few guys took some time to completely cover the whole thing with a bunch of dead fall, not just a little at the ends, the pile was a couple feet high on the whole trail (it's really short).  This short little trail doesn't go around anything hard or techie, it just cuts off a fun twistie little loop.  Yesterday someone not only took the time to remove all of the dead fall, but they used it to completely block the actual trail, making it impassable.

That's pretty dicky if you ask me.


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## sLoPeS (Jun 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> The path that Greg is talking about was really more of a short work trail to cut off part of a loop.  Some guys used it when they were building bridges and such near by.  It inadvertently got ridden more and more until it looked like part of the real trail, I even rode it a few times not knowing any better.  A week ago or so a few guys took some time to completely cover the whole thing with a bunch of dead fall, not just a little at the ends, the pile was a couple feet high on the whole trail (it's really short).  This short little trail doesn't go around anything hard or techie, it just cuts off a fun twistie little loop.  Yesterday someone not only took the time to remove all of the dead fall, but they used it to completely block the actual trail, making it impassable.
> 
> That's pretty dicky if you ask me.



wow...

:uzi:    (them)


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## Trev (Jun 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> The path that Greg is talking about was really more of a short work trail to cut off part of a loop.  Some guys used it when they were building bridges and such near by.  It inadvertently got ridden more and more until it looked like part of the real trail, I even rode it a few times not knowing any better.  A week ago or so a few guys took some time to completely cover the whole thing with a bunch of dead fall, not just a little at the ends, the pile was a couple feet high on the whole trail (it's really short).  This short little trail doesn't go around anything hard or techie, it just cuts off a fun twistie little loop.  Yesterday someone not only took the time to remove all of the dead fall, but they used it to completely block the actual trail, making it impassable.
> 
> That's pretty dicky if you ask me.




Well, I have to admit it did make me chuckle a little bit..  the whole "in your face" thing.. 

Dicky though..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jun 4, 2009)

very Dicky..


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## o3jeff (Jun 5, 2009)

Where are you guys talking about were someone keeps unblocking the pp and blocking the real path? Is it by the logs on Hinmans about halfway down that has a little ramp nailed on it if heading south, but if heading north it looks nearly impossible to go over? I tried to keep an eye out for it last night but wasn't really sure.


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## bvibert (Jun 5, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Where are you guys talking about were someone keeps unblocking the pp and blocking the real path? Is it by the logs on Hinmans about halfway down that has a little ramp nailed on it if heading south, but if heading north it looks nearly impossible to go over? I tried to keep an eye out for it last night but wasn't really sure.



The one that I was talking about is in the warm-up twisties (jug-a-lug) by the two a-frames and small drop.

There is another one by the southbound ramp on hinman's, that they are talking about on Crankfire.  That log is nearly impossible to ride going north, at least I can't make it.  They're talking about trying to make it more passable in that direction in hopes that people will stop using the p-path.


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## AdironRider (Jun 5, 2009)

Here on Teton Pass the FS has mandated that all downhill trails have to have pussyfoot bypasses for the folks who dont want to do the drops, gaps, and whatnot, but there are at least two mandatory log rides (one 15 footer over a ten foot ravine, and a 30 footer over a river). These could be walked over, but when I first went down the trails I found it to be more of a challenge to try and balance myself and walk a bike over a 8 inch wide 30 foot long log than it was just to sack up and ride it. Not wanting to fall into 36 degree water is a damn good way to get good at log rides realll quick.

I have no problem with these pussyfoot trails. They open up the trails to more ability levels, and if implemented properly do not cause that much harm to the surrounding landscape.


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## JD (Jun 5, 2009)

AdironRider said:


> Here on Teton Pass the FS has mandated that all downhill trails have to have pussyfoot bypasses for the folks who dont want to do the drops, gaps, and whatnot, but there are at least two mandatory log rides (one 15 footer over a ten foot ravine, and a 30 footer over a river). These could be walked over, but when I first went down the trails I found it to be more of a challenge to try and balance myself and walk a bike over a 8 inch wide 30 foot long log than it was just to sack up and ride it. Not wanting to fall into 36 degree water is a damn good way to get good at log rides realll quick.
> 
> I have no problem with these pussyfoot trails. They open up the trails to more ability levels, and if implemented properly do not cause that much harm to the surrounding landscape.



Hard to compare issues where out west you have millions of acres of blm land and back here we are challenge for recreational spaces.  Sound like cool trails though.


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## Trev (Jun 6, 2009)

It all seems soo simple..

Don't want to try more difficult stuff or the trail is too hard for you, stay on an easy trail, don't degrade the harder trail to your liking.

Want harder stuff, stay on a harder trail, don't take the easy paths and throw brick walls in the middle of them.

Maybe that's too damn complicated...


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## JD (Jun 6, 2009)

It can be hard when trails aren't marked for difficulty.  We've done a few things on our local networks here.  We've kept open easy and hard lines, but people still refuse to ride the easy line, start down the hard line, decide they don't want to  go for it and create a NEW line around the obsticle.  We've tried coving up the GFRs but they are dilligently uncovered.  As an end result, we create trail for the lowest skilled rider.  Then go back and add tech options for skilled rides in the same trail cooridor.  
Example:  A log falls that we want to keep.  We burry it with dirt so it's an easy ride over...then, the approprite distance down trail, we find a big flat rock  and bury just to the edge of the trail.  Beginners ride over the log and get a thrill...more skilled rides mach thru, air off the log, gap out to the rock that creates a nice landing transition, a feature that a rider traveling much slower didn't even realize was there.  On old trails, we'll take out features that are causing people to ride around and widen the trail, tighten up the damage that's been done, and add things that can be ridden over, or aired off of.  Making one single track have 2 very different lines. 
It's an unfortunate reality that at areas that see alot of traffic, you have to dumb stuff down if you really only want there to be one narrow single track.


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## severine (Jun 6, 2009)

Trail marking is an excellent point. The paths around here that you hear mention of have no markings other than the state trail markings (if that). There is no indication of difficulty level; the only way you'd know is by going with someone who has been there before, and then you're basing it on their opinion, which may not be in line with your views of difficulty.


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## AdironRider (Jun 6, 2009)

JD said:


> Hard to compare issues where out west you have millions of acres of blm land and back here we are challenge for recreational spaces.  Sound like cool trails though.



Actually its exactly the opposite. People are incredibly protective of the land out here. Ranchers guard the range with their life, its their livelihood. That in combination with a bunch of people ranging from hippies to hipsters, senior citizens to teenagers all having the green bug leads to a general population that likes to keep those spaces wild and untouched. When I lived back East, I found that it was much more common for parkland and woodlands to be used at will. But thats just my experience. 

Check out this vid of the trails I ride, this guy is a much better rider than I am, but this is my run after work everyday. This guy rips, just another east coast transplant who rides harder than most. Lots of these cats out here. 

http://www.vimeo.com/1267591


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## JD (Jun 7, 2009)

Looks fun.  Nice manual.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jun 7, 2009)

AdironRider said:


> Actually its exactly the opposite. People are incredibly protective of the land out here. Ranchers guard the range with their life, its their livelihood. That in combination with a bunch of people ranging from hippies to hipsters, senior citizens to teenagers all having the green bug leads to a general population that likes to keep those spaces wild and untouched. When I lived back East, I found that it was much more common for parkland and woodlands to be used at will. But thats just my experience.
> 
> Check out this vid of the trails I ride, this guy is a much better rider than I am, but this is my run after work everyday. This guy rips, just another east coast transplant who rides harder than most. Lots of these cats out here.
> 
> http://www.vimeo.com/1267591



One of the sickest videos ever!!!!


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## o3jeff (Jun 7, 2009)

Pretty good braid 
http://www.crankfire.com/galleries/picture.php?imageid=4259


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## Greg (Jun 8, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Pretty good braid
> http://www.crankfire.com/galleries/picture.php?imageid=4259



That's sick! "Hessian Dream Catcher" :lol:


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## big oz (Jun 8, 2009)

Thanks....seems that i had to resort to screwing deadfall across the trail to get the message across.  If they tear this down i am buying some wire and field fence from Tractor Supply.


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## bvibert (Jun 8, 2009)

Nice work!  I gotta get out that way to see that thing soon.  I'm kinda bummed that we were right in that area on Sunday, but didn't ride that particular trail.  I was tempted to swing by there just to see if the braid was still blocked, but we were on a limited time schedule.


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