# Who represents the Ski Industry Target Market



## dlague (Jan 18, 2017)

All the talk about grooming out runs, in particular bump runs got me to start investigating a little

So, keep in mind, all of you in this forum and other skiing forums are not your average skiers and snowboarders. The average skier/snowboarder has about 6 visits per season and are upper beginner to low intermediate.  Heck many of us here hit 6 days in November.

Also, the age demographics are changing as well with Skiers and snowboarders age 45+ now making up 40% of the market.



> Those ages 45-54 made up 20 percent of skiers last winter, up from 14 percent in the 1997-98 season; the 55-64 age group made up 12 percent, up from nearly 5 percent, and those 65 and older rose to 5.5 percent from 2.5 percent, according to the NSAA study.



To make matters worse the sport is becoming more affluent.  Is it getting priced out with more ski areas going over $100 for a lift ticket?  Now, those who know where to look can ski on the cheap relatively speaking like all of you on this forum for example.  But I found this statistic interesting



> But despite the availability of deals, a report commissioned in August 2015 by the National Ski Areas Association found that skiing in the United States has increasingly become a sport for the wealthy. The percentage of people who participate in snow sports with household incomes over $100,000 has risen over the past eight seasons from 45 percent of ski area visitors in the 2006-07 season to 56 percent of visitors in the 2013-14 season, according to the report.
> 
> Meanwhile, those with household incomes under $50,000 dropped from 30 percent of ski area visitors to 19 percent over the same period. Visitors who make between $50,000 and $99,999 remained steady over the years at about 25 percent.




So we wonder why the trails are getting groomed out?


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## SnowRider (Jan 18, 2017)

The industry doesn't have a general target market, each mountain does. And even then, each mountain focuses on the specific skier/rider types they actually stand a chance at marketing too.


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## dlague (Jan 18, 2017)

SnowRider said:


> The industry doesn't have a general target market, each mountain does. And even then, each mountain focuses on the specific skier/rider types they actually stand a chance at marketing too.



See you are thinking resorts/mountain AND LOCAL.  But there are destinations, gear, outer wear, ETC.

Sure I get that especially of age demographics are getting older or income demographics are going higher, even ability demographics play into it all which all were mentioned above.  With all that in mind, I think the markets become localized, however, with cost rising all the time and the 18-25 demographic getting smaller it seems that the 35-44 age group is becoming the target.  The demographic is driving the 6-17 year old demographic and they are more than likely established in their careers.  And even locally that theory applies.


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## JimG. (Jan 18, 2017)

dlague said:


> Also, the age demographics are changing as well with Skiers and snowboarders age 45+ now making up 40% of the market.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, I'll bite and admit it. I'm an old (55+) affluent guy. Does this mean it is abnormal for me to expect expert terrain to also have bumps?

There is way too much grooming in my opinion. NEVER should more than 65-70% of a resort's terrain be groomed at any one time. Now it's almost impossible to find bumps anywhere in the NE. I agree with DHS...even if the bumps are frozen I will ski a few bump runs. But now I rarely even have any choice.

When I visited Quebec last season I was so thrilled to see multiple steep long trails covered wall to wall with bumps (not a fan of the "half groom" idea either). Took me back to the days when if you wanted to ski the front four at Stowe you had better be able to ski bumps!

Many US ski areas have gotten just plain BoRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRing!


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## snoseek (Jan 18, 2017)

Millenials have no where near the disposable income that boomers had at the same age. College is much more expensive and buying into homes is getting to be pipe dream for a growing number. Soooo you have a shrinking demographic of young ripper and more groomers. Its that simple


Edit-I know most on here are far from the norm...jimg I'm with you although way poorer and a bit younger.


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## JimG. (Jan 18, 2017)

snoseek said:


> I know most on here are far from the norm...jimg I'm with you although way poorer and a bit younger.



A good point about millennials but I also know many who are far from destitute. The issue of skiing being expensive is also true but an increasing part of that is because of amenities such as grooming and high speed lifts. Frankly so many costs are being loaded onto the skiing model there is no way it can sustain itself. Skiing isn't about skiing anymore it's about the other attractions as well. Waterparks anybody?

Skiing makes me feel young so maybe I don't represent my demographic all that well either.


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## dlague (Jan 18, 2017)

JimG. said:


> A good point about millennials but I also know many who are far from destitute. The issue of skiing being expensive is also true but an increasing part of that is because of amenities such as grooming and high speed lifts. Frankly so many costs are being loaded onto the skiing model there is no way it can sustain itself. Skiing isn't about skiing anymore it's about the other attractions as well. Waterparks anybody?
> 
> Skiing makes me feel young so maybe I don't represent my demographic all that well either.



Actually, the 45+ demographic is growing primarily due to the boomers getting to be that age.  That being said, it does not mean that we do not ski bumps, but there comes a time where bump bashing is not the same as it was.  I certainly do not ski bumps as often as I used to mostly due to skiing with my wife.  She can ski bumps but does not necessarily like to do that all day, nor do I any more.  Last year at A Basin I caught an edge skiing a bumped steep run and lunged forward and started a tumble - luckily about three bumps later I stopped - what went through my head?  Shit I am going to tomahawk down this whole trail - I a goner!  I will be honest, I am finding that I am more calculated than I have ever been. 

My wife and I met this guy who was 80 years old and skis every other day.  He was rocking some Soul 7 skis and we watched him ski ahead of us and he had that nice classic form that you do not see that often any more.  He was not killing it he was just taking his sweet as time and it looked beautiful!

BTW Bragging rights go to those age 68 and older, who averaged 9.5 days skiing last season - more than any other age group.

Also the trend is to provide more things to do so, SPAs, theaters, variety of dining, yes waterparks, etc is the trend with larger resorts while year round activities are also trending to increase revenues.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 18, 2017)

JimG. said:


> OK, I'll bite and admit it. I'm an old (55+) affluent guy. Does this mean it is abnormal for me to expect expert terrain to also have bumps?
> 
> There is way too much grooming in my opinion. NEVER should more than 65-70% of a resort's terrain be groomed at any one time. Now it's almost impossible to find bumps anywhere in the NE. I agree with DHS...even if the bumps are frozen I will ski a few bump runs. But now I rarely even have any choice.
> 
> ...



Good point on Stowe.  That's exactly how/why I learned to ski bumps.  I didn't just love moguls as a young learning skier.  Around aged 9 I wanted to be able to ski the most difficult trails on any mountain.  Well, in order to do that, I had to learn to ski bumps.  I didn't take lessons to learn moguls.  I put the time in.  There's no substitute for practice.  I simple started skiing moguls constantly because I wanted to ski Outer Limits without struggling and looking like an idiot in the process. I simply watched the best bump skiers and tried to copy what they were doing.  In the beginning, I'd try to zip a line and make it 2-3 bumps before crashing.  2-3 became 4-5 and within a couple of seasons I was able to run bumps well top to bottom.

Another argument why there actually should be MORE moguls now than there was in the past is technology; both mountain technology and equipment technology.  The skis, boots and bindings of today are SO MUCH better than what I had growing up in the 80s.  That makes it easier for people to become better skiers faster on all terrain types including bumps.   The mountain grooming and snowmaking technology means that mountains that get little to no natural snow can offer man made bumps.  This was unthinkable 20 years ago.  Literally every single ski area in the country can offer a decent mogul product now.  Not having enough natural snow or expert skiers to form bumps isn't an excuse anymore.  Bumps should be viewed the exact same as terrain parks.  It's a terrain feature resort should always be certain to have and promote.


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## snoseek (Jan 18, 2017)

I cant for the life of me figure out how even an advanced skiers mountain, like say Cannon, grooms out such a large percentage of their terrain. I get the freeze thaw issue....but grooming a trail like avalanche damn near everyday, despite snow conditions, seems silly.


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## Edd (Jan 18, 2017)

Intermediate bumps are badly needed. At most ski areas, it's a jump from intermediate groomers to advanced bumps, which I struggle with, barring great conditions. If that gap can be filled, it would be a positive step towards more bumps on the mountain in general.


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## dlague (Jan 18, 2017)

Edd said:


> Intermediate bumps are badly needed. At most ski areas, it's a jump from intermediate groomers to advanced bumps, which I struggle with, barring great conditions. If that gap can be filled, it would be a positive step towards more bumps on the mountain in general.



Head west - bumps are much easier to ski by a long shot!


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## drjeff (Jan 18, 2017)

Many of today's (and these even goes for the last 10+ yrs) kids aren't learning to ski bumps in the frequency that they used too simply because they're spending more time in terrain parks and less time skiing the whole mountain - that is a big shift in the development process of so many young skiers now, and that lack of bumps experience is likely to continue as this age demographic gets older

Without a doubt though, the families with kids demographic will always be a prime industry target, as those families are likely not to just bring more than one person to the ski area/resort, but also purchase other items from food and beverage to lessons to rentals, making them a higher yield group of the area/resort

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## benski (Jan 18, 2017)

Ski schools should take all there experts skiers into the bumps. All large mountain should have intermediate bumps like Moonshine at Sugarbush.


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## SnowRider (Jan 18, 2017)

> Millenials have no where near the disposable income that boomers had at the same age. College is much more expensive and buying into homes is getting to be pipe dream for a growing number. Soooo you have a shrinking demographic of young ripper and more groomers. Its that simple



This combined with feeder resorts closing. You see mountains getting smarter about it though. Mount Snow offers their college pass deal until 24 or 25 I beleive. I also think resorts are working towards more package deals.


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## benski (Jan 18, 2017)

I think young people would ski a lot more if they knew they can ski in April and late March. Cheeper lodging, cheeper tickets, more partying, and occasional scantly clad women should make spring skiing popular with younger people but very few people know it even is a thing.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 18, 2017)

I just saw a study that said that Millenials are making 20% less on average than Boomers were at the same age.  

The Boomers are the first generation in a long time to leave the country worse off than they found it.  Thanks, Boomers.


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## cdskier (Jan 18, 2017)

benski said:


> I think young people would ski a lot more if they knew they can ski in April and late March. Cheeper lodging, cheeper tickets, more partying, and occasional scantly clad women should make spring skiing popular with younger people but very few people know it even is a thing.



Interesting...they really don't know that? With the ease of coming across this type of info on the Internet, I would have thought the younger people would know this easily. When I was in college, spring break was when I always planned my ski trip to VT.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 18, 2017)

Icy moguls suck. So they get groomed. Also mogul skiing is no longer a competitive event many people take interest in. The young crowd would rather watch freestyle "unconventional" steep ungroomed terrain get skied creatively for style points.

So areas groom a few more trails now, but they also cut 5 or 10 woods in the last decade. I'll take it.


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## JimG. (Jan 18, 2017)

Edd said:


> Intermediate bumps are badly needed. At most ski areas, it's a jump from intermediate groomers to advanced bumps, which I struggle with, barring great conditions. If that gap can be filled, it would be a positive step towards more bumps on the mountain in general.



From your mouth to the ears of every ski area manager on Earth.

Amen.


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## Smellytele (Jan 18, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Many of today's (and these even goes for the last 10+ yrs) kids aren't learning to ski bumps in the frequency that they used too simply because they're spending more time in terrain parks and less time skiing the whole mountain - that is a big shift in the development process of so many young skiers now, and that lack of bumps experience is likely to continue as this age demographic gets older
> 
> Without a doubt though, the families with kids demographic will always be a prime industry target, as those families are likely not to just bring more than one person to the ski area/resort, but also purchase other items from food and beverage to lessons to rentals, making them a higher yield group of the area/resort
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



I have brainwashed my kids to love bumps and trees. They don't like parks nor racing.  As far as racing they see skiing as a fun thing and don't like to be told when to turn. Although I do find racers are more likely to ski the whole mountain than park rats and can ski better.


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## JimG. (Jan 18, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> Icy moguls suck. So they get groomed.



Stupid.

Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.

See, it's not hard if you think a little.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 18, 2017)

JimG. said:


> Stupid.
> 
> Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.
> 
> See, it's not hard if you think a little.



Assuming the capacity is available and it's a snowmaking trail.

I was at Berkshire East earlier this week and was glad to see they had groomed everything-- even the bump trails. It was the only way to get the mountain in reasonable shape for MLK weekend. They were making snow too and I was happy to find some bumps form in the new coat of manmade.

There are way more scenarios and variables that come into play than "never groom, stupid!"


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## deadheadskier (Jan 18, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> The young crowd would rather watch freestyle "unconventional" steep ungroomed terrain get skied creatively for style points..



This type of terrain doesn't really exist in the East without bumps outside of a few days a season.



bdfreetuna said:


> areas groom a few more trails now, but they also cut 5 or 10 woods in the last decade. I'll take it.



Cutting tree runs and offering moguls are not mutually exclusive resort operation practices.





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## bdfreetuna (Jan 18, 2017)

My point is that there are in most cases many more acres of bumps in the woods to be had compared to the days some here are reminiscing when there may have been more dedicated mogul runs.

Not mutually exclusive but woods hold snow better and get less iced up so perhaps resorts are trying to offer more of the best of both worlds.

If that's the case, I approve.


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## Not Sure (Jan 18, 2017)

JimG. said:


> Stupid.
> 
> Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.
> 
> See, it's not hard if you think a little.



Elk 1+ , Has a fun feel. Cornhead put it as styrofoam


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## cdskier (Jan 18, 2017)

JimG. said:


> Stupid.
> 
> Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.
> 
> See, it's not hard if you think a little.



I used to ski Belleayre quite often and loved the way they handled bumps. They also had a good variety of levels of bumps with often letting a couple blues bump up to let people practice bump skiing without being intimidated by them. Belleayre is probably where I really first started to enjoy skiing bumps more.


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## benski (Jan 18, 2017)

cdskier said:


> Interesting...they really don't know that? With the ease of coming across this type of info on the Internet, I would have thought the younger people would know this easily. When I was in college, spring break was when I always planned my ski trip to VT.


 
Easy of access does not mean will access it. Everyone is surprised when I tell them I am skiing in late March or April. Also most colleges have spring break earlier than Binghamton.


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## dlague (Jan 18, 2017)

benski said:


> I think young people would ski a lot more if they knew they can ski in April and late March. Cheeper lodging, cheeper tickets, more partying, and occasional scantly clad women should make spring skiing popular with younger people but very few people know it even is a thing.


Ya buddy! More room for us!

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## dlague (Jan 18, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> I have brainwashed my kids to love bumps and trees. They don't like parks nor racing.  As far as racing they see skiing as a fun thing and don't like to be told when to turn. Although I do find racers are more likely to ski the whole mountain than park rats and can ski better.


My sons all ski bumps not because they love them but because they can.  They also are unconventional since they seem to see the bumps as opportunities to launch themselves.  I have even watched them straightlining them.

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## abc (Jan 18, 2017)

dlague said:


> > Originally Posted by *benski*
> >
> > _I think young people would ski a lot more if they knew they can ski in April and late March. Cheeper lodging, cheeper tickets, more partying, and occasional scantly clad women should make spring skiing popular with younger people but very few people know it even is a thing.
> > _
> ...


You get all the room you can have when the mountain shut down the lift due to *lack of paying customer*!


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 18, 2017)

Edd said:


> *Intermediate bumps are badly needed.* At most ski areas,* it's a jump from intermediate groomers to advanced bumps*, which I struggle with, barring great conditions.



I've often wondered why that is.   They're basically nonexistent, and when they're there, it's usually by accident.  Like on a well-traveled intermediate run at the end of a day when there was 4 or 5 inches of snow, you get "accidental intermediate moguls".


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## abc (Jan 18, 2017)

i think the mountains are the way they driven are mostly by the annual skier surveys. Though I don't pretend to know which demographic plays what role in those survey result.

You can see the top resorts are always the ones having high percentage groomers! That's been the case for a long time. In fact, some 10 years ago, not knowing better, I went to Deer Valley just to check out why they're ranked so high! (not a bad mountain at all, but very distinct and clear indication of what the majority of skiers want)

Most of us goes into the woods preciously because there're far fewer people there and the snow stays in good shape longer. So don't complain about the groomer. Be thankful they're there to keep the majority of skiers entertain so they're not crowding the woods.

Bump, that's a different matter. You either know how to know to ski it or you don't. Most people don't know how to ski it naturally. So they stay away. I totally agree with whoever mention the lack of intermediate bump. Without it, those who don't know how to ski bumps never get the chance to learn and progress. So the expert bump runs get maybe 10 skiers on it while the groomer got 100! If you're a resort manager and seeing that ratio, wouldn't you be tempted to flatten the bumps???


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## abc (Jan 18, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> I've often wondered why that is. They're basically nonexistent, and when they're there, it's usually by accident. Like on a well-traveled intermediate run at the end of a day when there was 4 or 5 inches of snow, you get "accidental intermediate moguls".


In the west, there ARE intermediate bump runs. But they're never full width bump runs. They're always half groom and half bumps. If a blue-pitch run has wall to wall bumps, it's rated black! I think the mountain management don't want to scare the shit out of any blue skiers who accidentally venture into a "blue" run only to find wall to wall bumps.

In the east, trails aren't wide enough to be groomed half/half. So if a trail is intentionally left to bump up, it's typically rated as black. The problem there is, for a beginning bump'er, it's hard to judge how hard the "black" bump run is.


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## 56fish (Jan 19, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Without a doubt though, the families with kids demographic will always be a prime industry target, as those families are likely not to just bring more than one person to the ski area/resort, but also purchase other items from food and beverage to lessons to rentals, making them a higher yield group of the area/resort
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app




W/o a doubt!  + a zillion


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## wtcobb (Jan 19, 2017)

+10 to the intermediate bumps. I recall finally getting down the timing and flow at Attitash (Bear Peak side) since I finally had some low-angle bumps to lap and practice (beers at lunch also helped loosen the legs). Some friends who can't ski bumps are definitely wanting to learn, but the curve isn't really even a curve but a huge step. 

I'm curious to see how the college/20's pass deals continue and if it pays off for ski areas. I got an after-college pass at Gunstock my first year out of school, skied 35 days that season and was hooked. Took advantage of the For-20's pass at the Bush for a couple years. As my generation ages, starts to earn reasonable income, and starts families, those areas that developed loyalty with the younger crowds could win out. 

I'm also a complete anomaly as a millennial who owns a home in a rural area, has a car, and has no idea WTF a Snapchat is.


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## xwhaler (Jan 19, 2017)

Intermediate bumps should definitely be a bigger part of the mix for sure. Many folks see giant bumps on a steep trail and just pass. 

Sunapee does a nice job of this as they seed some mellow bumps on a section of the lift line in the Sun Bowl which is a nice training space before skiers venture to the bumps on Flying Goose which are much steeper and more technical.


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## Jully (Jan 19, 2017)

xwhaler said:


> Intermediate bumps should definitely be a bigger part of the mix for sure. Many folks see giant bumps on a steep trail and just pass.
> 
> Sunapee does a nice job of this as they seed some mellow bumps on a section of the lift line in the Sun Bowl which is a nice training space before skiers venture to the bumps on Flying Goose which are much steeper and more technical.



If it is a more bump centric mountain, it tends to have intermediate mogul runs I find. I think of SB, Sunapee as both always having good mogul products. Maybe I'm just labeling these places as something they're not though...

Many other ski areas seem to just have ungroomed terrain as an afterthought on a trail that is often the last to receive snowmaking, if it ever does.

All this talk of moguls makes me mourn for saddleback though. It had an awesome mix of runs I thought. Rangeley had some excellent intermediate-ish runs and then Kennebago had some real gems.


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## Jully (Jan 19, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> Cutting tree runs and offering moguls are not mutually exclusive resort operation practices.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app





bdfreetuna said:


> My point is that there are in most cases many more acres of bumps in the woods to be had compared to the days some here are reminiscing when there may have been more dedicated mogul runs.
> 
> Not mutually exclusive but woods hold snow better and get less iced up so perhaps resorts are trying to offer more of the best of both worlds.
> 
> If that's the case, I approve.



I gotta say I agree with Tuna here. Resorts cutting lots of glades in the past few years and neglecting to do moguls is just reflecting who the target demographic is. People are into trees as the new form of 'advanced' terrain as opposed to wanting to rip a trail like outer limits.

I personally don't think they should be mutually exclusive... glades are bump runs with sticks in the middle of the bumps, but its clear that is what's driving the new age advanced skier these days.


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## NYDB (Jan 19, 2017)

Just leaving a few intermediate runs ungroomed would be nice at a lot of places.  The only place you see low angle natural terrain is in the woods. 

I blame old people and snowboarders.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 19, 2017)

Jully said:


> All this talk of moguls makes me mourn for saddleback though.



Same here, between this and the other mogul thread Saddleback keeps coming to mind. The single best mogul run I've ever skied (ok, that I can remember..) was Golden Smelt a couple winters ago in the spring with a fresh foot+ of snow. Most successful / longest zipper line I can remember pulling off, on a real old school classic of a trail.


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## cdskier (Jan 19, 2017)

Jully said:


> I personally don't think they should be mutually exclusive... glades are bump runs with sticks in the middle of the bumps, but its clear that is what's driving the new age advanced skier these days.



I almost listed Eden at Sugarbush in the Good New England Bump Runs thread for that very reason...


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## Edd (Jan 19, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> Same here, between this and the other mogul thread Saddleback keeps coming to mind. The single best mogul run I've ever skied (ok, that I can remember..) was Golden Smelt a couple winters ago in the spring with a fresh foot+ of snow. Most successful / longest zipper line I can remember pulling off, on a real old school classic of a trail.



Fantastic trail, indeed.


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## burski (Jan 19, 2017)

The bumps issue is not an industry wide issue, its confined to eastern or high traffic resorts.  I skied in the east for over 30 years and have been out west 3 years now.  Even at Vail and Beaver Creek, some of the more high end resorts in the country, only 10-25% of the terrain is groomed at anytime, when you have literally 1000's of acres of terrain, it is physically impossible to groom it.  Granted that groomed terrain gets the majority of the destination skiers, but more advanced skiers are skiing predominantly ungroomed and bumped terrain.  My two girls are in a kids program at Beaver Creek ages 7 and 9, they ski bumps every day in that program. 

In the East there are a number of factors that lead to less bumps, weather, overcrowdedtrails, and smaller mountain size (they groom it b/c they can).  I also think most area GM’s see a bump trailw/ 5 skiers on it and a groomed trail with 100 skiers on it and think “let’sspread these people out more”. I don’t necessarilyagree with that thinking, but it is not wrong and at the end is pleasing morecustomers than the rest of us who want that bump run.


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## Jully (Jan 19, 2017)

It is certainly not an issue out west! I don't think anybody is making that claim.

Spreading people out is definitely a reason too. It was mentioned a little while ago on the board that Sugarbush seems to groom more trails on the weekend than weekdays. That has to be in part due to crowds.


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## tumbler (Jan 19, 2017)

Sometimes they groom bumps because they are poorly spaced, beyond icy, the size of VW's so that people can ski them and form new bumps!


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## cdskier (Jan 19, 2017)

Jully said:


> Spreading people out is definitely a reason too. It was mentioned a little while ago on the board that Sugarbush seems to groom more trails on the weekend than weekdays. That has to be in part due to crowds.



I think part of the reason Sugarbush does it is to help preserve snow-pack as well. Why run a heavy machine over a trail if it only had a handful of skiers on it that day? Some of these trails will see as many people on a Saturday morning as they see during an entire mid-week period. With less traffic mid-week, the trails hold up longer whereas on the weekend if you were to skip grooming them they would be more likely to be skied off and slick.

Overall I tend to like the strategy Sugarbush uses for the most part.


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## burski (Jan 19, 2017)

Jully said:


> It is certainly not an issue out west! I don't think anybody is making that claim.
> 
> .



On one of the tangents this thread has gone on, there was aclaim that young skiers don’t ski bumps anymore – I think that is a northeast /metro view of the ski world and not the case with what is happening out west andin other areas of the world.


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## Kleetus (Jan 19, 2017)

I like the looks of the latest GFS run for Tuesday...Hope it keep trending this way


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## dlague (Jan 19, 2017)

A great place for intermediate bumps is Okemo.  I always kid about how low profile the bumps are but it does make for good practice.  I wish I could zipper line like some you crazies out there.

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## VTKilarney (Jan 19, 2017)

Bretton Woods is a great place to practice bump skiing.


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## Jully (Jan 19, 2017)

burski said:


> On one of the tangents this thread has gone on, there was aclaim that young skiers don’t ski bumps anymore – I think that is a northeast /metro view of the ski world and not the case with what is happening out west andin other areas of the world.



That is fair. Some were saying. I just assumed they were talking about the east, but I could have been wrong!


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## Smellytele (Jan 19, 2017)

Kleetus said:


> I like the looks of the latest GFS run for Tuesday...Hope it keep trending this way
> 
> View attachment 21561



every thread is a weather thread.


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## 180 (Jan 19, 2017)

Jully said:


> That is fair. Some were saying. I just assumed they were talking about the east, but I could have been wrong!



Not true at all, USSA B level events and the programs are very full of young bumpers.  We need support from the millenials


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## dlague (Jan 19, 2017)

burski said:


> On one of the tangents this thread has gone on, there was aclaim that young skiers don’t ski bumps anymore – I think that is a northeast /metro view of the ski world and not the case with what is happening out west andin other areas of the world.


That is the case with our youngest son - he is rockin' bumps on fats. 117 underfoot like they were skinny!

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## Whitey (Jan 19, 2017)

dlague said:


> That is the case with our youngest son - he is rockin' bumps on fats. 117 underfoot like they were skinny!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app



Both of my boys, 14 & 17, prefer woods and bumps over T-parks and definitely over groomers.   My 17 yr old will get bored after 2 runs on groomers.  Wants nothing to do with them.    They will spend most of their day in T-park if the woods and bumps aren't in play and will do a couple of laps thru them on any given day.  But it's really not what they go skiing for.   A couple of weeks ago when we ducked the ropes on a glade at Loon they were so much happier doing jumps off of natural stuff than they were when they were in the T-park earlier that day.  

Of course this may have more to do with them actually following the lead from their old man for once in their lives and me exposing them to the corrupting influence of woods and bumps. . .

Related/unrelated - My father, 90 yrs old now, was a classic old school new england skier.   Used to hike up Wachusett and ski it before there were lifts (circa 1940s).  Wooden skis with leather bindings.   Ditto for Mt Greylock and Mt Washington.  He also used to hitch-hike up into the VT/NH mtns to ski.  My mom & him stayed and skied at Mittersill when it was its own area and had places to stay at the bottom.   As I watched my boys ski thru that glade at Loon, with its sketchy conditions, tight trees, rocks, etc - I thought that my dad would be proud of them.  They took the chairlift to get there but what they were skiing and how they ski it would remind him a lot of himself & what he skied when he was their age.   I thought about how time is a flat circle and we loop back to things without realizing that it's happening.


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## mister moose (Jan 19, 2017)

JimG. said:


> From your mouth to the ears of every ski area manager on Earth.
> 
> Amen.



Oh, C'mon.   You ski Killington.

Low Road. West Glade.  Mousetrap stage right.  Lowest Vertigo.  Upper Great Bear.  Upper Wildfire. Shall I go on?

Vagabond...


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## JimG. (Jan 20, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Oh, C'mon.   You ski Killington.
> 
> Low Road. West Glade.  Mousetrap stage right.  Lowest Vertigo.  Upper Great Bear.  Upper Wildfire. Shall I go on?
> 
> Vagabond...



There were a bunch at Mt Snow today too.

Mostly natural snow terrain.


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