# On mountain food prices



## uphillklimber (Apr 8, 2012)

x


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## Cornhead (Apr 8, 2012)

I'll never forget when my son said the burgers at Greek were just like the ones at school. Just like the ones at school except for the $6.50 price tag. Soylent Green?

Does anything smell better than burgers cooking while skiing? To me they always smell better than they taste. What's the point of pricing things so high they don't sell? Who's the winner in that scenario?


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## drjeff (Apr 8, 2012)

I'm sure that some of thier pricing structure at a major resort like SR for their F&B has to have some component of "if they pay $8for at says Chilli's/Fridays/Applebee's/Ruby Tuesday's, they'll pay $8 here"

Plus it has seemed from my observations over the years that the bigger and more popular a late season event gets at an area, the more F&B the "regulars" bring in themselves instead of buying from the area reguardless of what its priced at


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## deadheadskier (Apr 8, 2012)

drjeff said:


> I'm sure that some of thier pricing structure at a major resort like SR for their F&B has to have some component of "if they pay $8for at says Chilli's/Fridays/Applebee's/Ruby Tuesday's, they'll pay $8 here"



or the Matterhorn right down the street.......

http://www.matterhornskibar.com/menu.html

granted, the quality at the Matterhorn is probably much better and you get the burger with fries for the $9 price, but you're not eating it slope side.

$7 is about as cheap as it gets for a hamburger at a ski resort or anywhere but a fast food chain these days.


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## marcski (Apr 8, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> or the Matterhorn right down the street.......
> 
> http://www.matterhornskibar.com/menu.html
> 
> ...



I have to agree with DHS on this one.  $7 for a grilled burger at a ski resort, just isn't really overpriced these days.  In fact, you won't find it cheaper! 

That being said, I'm a brown bagger....except for those warm sunny days when they've got the bbq running!


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## riverc0il (Apr 8, 2012)

Yup, you can't go into many sit down establishments and get a burger, fries, and drink for much less than $12 or so.

My issue with ski areas isn't high prices but rather lack of quality or portion size for the pricing. If I pay sit down restaurant prices, I expect the same quality. That is the bigger issue at many areas. Though I have noticed many areas increasing quality big time without significant jumps in pricing.

The bigger issue for me is drink prices. I've seen fountain drinks as high as $3.50-$4.00 which is an absurd margin. I try to bring a water bottle for beverages even if I plan on buying on mountain food.


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## Nick (Apr 8, 2012)

seven bucks for a burger seems about right if its good and has all the fixins. Agree on astronomical soda prices though, that's all profit


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## Riverveteran (Apr 8, 2012)

Draft beers are $4 at the Foogy Goggle.  Enuff said.


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## soposkier (Apr 8, 2012)

Riverveteran said:


> Draft beers are $4 at the Foogy Goggle.  Enuff said.



yea, the beer prices at Sunday River are pretty much the same you'd pay at any bar, if not cheaper.  Like others are saying, id pay $7 for a good burger anyday, but the problem is that on average your average ski cafeteria burger is not of good quality/fresh at all.  Usually food in the bars at resorts doesnt seem to priced much higher than off mountain bars and is of much better quality or at least fresher than the caf.


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## abc (Apr 8, 2012)

I buy food at the resort, when I ski for free, that is. Otherwise, I brown bag it. 

The price of the burger is probably calculated with the clientel in mind. SR is a "up market' resort, or they want to cater to. So the majority of those who go there probably won't be bothered by the inflated price of a burger.

I must say, after years of over-priced terrible food, lately the quality of the food had improved in many places. Some are good enough to justify the high price. Is it still a lack of budget-friendly food? Sure. But like all food service in high rent area (Manhattan anyone? ), the way out is provide high quality food to be inline with the price.


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## snoseek (Apr 8, 2012)

Generally there's quite a line up at the cafeteria during lunch. F&B is no different than any other business, you get the most amount of money out of each customer that you can. They all run a tight food cost, F&B is a major source of revenue for the mountain. Start running a food cost even as few percent too high and it creates a giant loss. The food they serve is mostly ready to use therefore it often lacks in quality and keeps the also important labor cost in check. Go to Vail resorts and order an "epic burger$$$$"

I totally agree on the quality, a few places get it.

Coffee or a beer is about as much as I'm willing to spend. A hunk of cheese goes a long way.


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## riverc0il (Apr 8, 2012)

More and more places are getting the quality thing. It doesn't have to cost a fortune to use slightly better patties and buns and put a slice of tomato and a leaf of lettuce on a burger. It might even cost more not to. When I plan to ski areas I know have bad cafe food, I bring my own. I had an experience this season at a ski area (which I won't name) that had the worst burger and fries I've ever had at a ski area. You can bet I will never ski that area again without packing a lunch.

On the flip side, I had some breakfasts (early lunch, really) and lunches at ski areas that I thought the value to cost ratio was excellent and I'll probably plan on not bringing a lunch for those areas. I'll name names here... Bretton Woods and Mad River Glen. Though I don't see myself going to BW again. :Lol: But I will continue to rave about that lodge, the service, and food I got there.


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## snoseek (Apr 8, 2012)

abc said:


> the way out is provide high quality food to be inline with the price.



100% agree with this. The dilema is finding the right staff, with the right skill level and the right pay. If they take a chance with skilled staff the food would be better. Food cost would go down, quality would go up but the labor would be much higher. Not many skilled bakers that will work for 850 an hour but damn wouldn't fresh bread from scratch daily make a kickass sandwich! 

I also agree about the overall quality getting better at some areas. Areas with real villages and leased places are usually the best and most competive. Squaw village has a couple very decent places to eat for under 10 bucks. The Loaf is similar, decent restaurants.


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## Geoff (Apr 8, 2012)

snoseek said:


> 100% agree with this. The dilema is finding the right staff, with the right skill level and the right pay. If they take a chance with skilled staff the food would be better. Food cost would go down, quality would go up but the labor would be much higher. Not many skilled bakers that will work for 850 an hour but damn wouldn't fresh bread from scratch daily make a kickass sandwich!
> 
> I also agree about the overall quality getting better at some areas. Areas with real villages and leased places are usually the best and most competive. Squaw village has a couple very decent places to eat for under 10 bucks. The Loaf is similar, decent restaurants.



It's not just the staff.   When you're grilling frozen pucks out of the Sysco truck with a stale bun, cheap American cheese, and a slice of rock-hard flavorless nitrogen-ripened tomato, you're not going to come close to the $8.95 burger & fries in the pub.

Have a burger at Deer Valley sometime.   It's also $8.95 but it's a restaurant-grade burger.   The kid flipping burgers at Deer Valley is making the same lousy pay as the H2 seasonal worker visa people who work at Killington and the like.  The difference is that Deer Valley is willing to give up some food cost margin to present a better product to their customers.   You don't ever see anyone brown-bagging it there.  The food is a good value and customers are happy to pay.   I don't know how it works now but ASC used to keep total food cost and waste under 20%.   The e Coli outbreaks at Sunday River are hardly a surprise.   They source their burger from the cheapest midwest meat packing houses.


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## jlboyell (Apr 8, 2012)

i pack most days.  the place i didnt was elk mountain in PA.  Best Meatball sandwich around.  good chili and decent burgers. cant remember how much, but i remember thinking it was cheaper and better than most


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## abc (Apr 9, 2012)

snoseek said:


> Not many skilled bakers that will work for 850 an hour


He might if he's a skier and gets a season pass as part of the benefit! 

The other point of good quality ingredien is also very important. It makes the job a lot easier.


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## Mpdsnowman (Apr 9, 2012)

Christ I paid $13.00 for a burger at snowbasin......4 years ago..its probably around 16 by now lol.

I will say this that food service at resorts is probably one of the highest gpm they can get....

People will pay when they are there...


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## steamboat1 (Apr 9, 2012)

$12 outdoor deck bbq'd burgers at the Octagon on top of Stowe. Excellent burger &  there was a choice of several dressings & other toppings that the server puts together for you on a freshly baked bun. There was also a variety of salads to chose from included. Not overly priced I thought considering the spectacular views from the outdoor summit deck. It didn't hurt that it was almost 70 degrees, sunshine & no wind either. This was 2 weeks ago.

At $3.50 a pop for a choice of several brands of 16.oz canned beers I was in heaven.

Better yet after getting a good buzz going your on top of Mansfield & you have to ski down.

Priceless!!!


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## steamboat1 (Apr 9, 2012)

As to the question posed by the OP.

C'mon give me a break.


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## Black Phantom (Apr 9, 2012)

Next time bring an EBT card. I am sure you can use it for booze as well.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 9, 2012)

I pulled a knucklehead move at Loon Saturday.I don't know what I was thinking but I went to the cafe at Governors lodge and picked up a burger plate and bottled soft drink.Checkout time and what...$13 something.Yikes!Glad I sold those 3 vouchers in the parking lot.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2012)

My only recent recollection of sticker shock at a ski area was getting a couple of slices of pizza at Killington last year.  I didn't look at the prices, but slices of pepperoni were like $5.75.  With Vermont's excessive meal tax, the bill came to over $12 for 2 somewhat large, but gas station quality slices of pizza.

Eating in Spruce Camp at Stowe, I honestly don't care what the price is as the the quality is so good; in fact better than most restaurants in town. I look forward to having lunch there every time I visit Stowe.


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## dovoian (Apr 9, 2012)

Last time I went to Mad River I bought a hamburger and was surprised not only that it didn't cost that much, but that it was an ACTUAL hamburger, and was served to me on a PLATE with Silverware!!


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## Mr MRG (Apr 9, 2012)

*Food Prices*

So glad to hear that folks seem to see value and quality on the food at Mad River Glen. We really pride ourselves on our food and the fact that our burgers in particular are fresh (never frozen) and are ALWAYS cooked to order (huge difference not being under a heat lamp). Mike, our F&B Manager,really gets it and is always trying to lure folks(via quality and/or price) into our on-mountain "eateries". My Dad always told me that a big part of judging a ski area is their burgers (and choclate chip cookies).  One of my favorite things about MRG's food service is the fact that we offer real stuff like PB&J sandwichs, hard boiled eggs, jello, etc... Plus ALL of our baked goods are homemade and BIG - REAL BIG! As my Dad also told me years back - NEVER eat anything bigger than your head! 

As an aside I was recently out in Lake Tahoe on a business trip (REALLY!!!) and I was floored by the $9 Budweiser (12 ounces BTW - not even a pounder) - That being said they did have Go-Go dancers in the bar which certainly upped the value quotient!


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## Nick (Apr 9, 2012)

Yeah but did you have to tip the go go dancer also? :lol:


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## billski (Apr 9, 2012)

Adam Smith would simply observe supply and demand.  If this is what it takes to stay in business so be it.  Recent stats confirm it's a large chunk of revenue it.  It doesn't impact the envionment, it brings more local jobs and cash infusion to the local economy.  The impact is only on your wallet.  Of course, the vocal few on this forum have learned how to deal with this, so it's not really a problem.  It is of course very entertaining.  

I used to have the "Cheeseburger Index", tracking the price from mountain. I wanted to see how it tracked inflation rate and ticket prices.  I lost interest in doing this a long time ago.


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## dovoian (Apr 9, 2012)

MRG man, I was also loving the Advil in the food line - I took advantage of it!


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## my poor knees (Apr 9, 2012)

The Burgers and chili at K are pretty damn good. It's not priced so high that I freak out about it, but I was pissed when they took away the pass-holders discount, think it was 10% ? But I certainly wouldn't brown bag it based on the price, they're entitled to make a profit on food. It's no different than going to an amusement park or attraction or zoo or whatever.


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## snoseek (Apr 9, 2012)

How hard is it to throw some soup in a thermos or make a couple sandwiches? You have nothing but your own laziness to blame if you're not happy about paying those prices but judging by the lines the majority of the skiers are ok with the prices. 

I don't know about you all but my soup is usually gonna be better than their soup.



Also comparing a 2.50 burger king jr whopper to a ski area price wise isn't exactly fair for sooo many reasons.


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## snowmonster (Apr 9, 2012)

Bottom line I think is that people don't mind paying for quality. If you charge $8 for a burger, make it worth $8. Otherwise, the customer feels gouged. Deer Valley and Stowe were brought up in discussion and I'd like to praise what they do food-wise. Before I went to Deer Valley, a colleague said "look, you pay the same amount to eat a hockey puck at Killington but the difference at Deer Valley is that you get a really good burger." Had a Thanksgiving meal for lunch on china and silverware at DV and didn't feel gouged at all. It was worth $13. A lot of western areas I've been to seem to have a good concept of giving you a good meal for a fair price. Some of their eastern brethren are coming around and I hope that trend continues.

As for the lack of SR patrons eating burgers, well, if you must know, grilling season is in full swing there. The loyalists are all out in the parking lot grilling brats and venison and mixing margaritas. I guess only the day trippers are held hostage. SR's food options have been on the upswing recently. There's a way to go but the quality is improving.


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## Mr MRG (Apr 9, 2012)

Nick said:


> Yeah but did you have to tip the go go dancer also? :lol:



Go Go Dancers NOT Lap Dancers so no tipping required!!


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## Mr MRG (Apr 9, 2012)

dovoian said:


> MRG man, I was also loving the Advil in the food line - I took advantage of it!



Ah yes, better skiing through chemistry!


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## RENO (Apr 9, 2012)

How about almost $10 for 1 slice of pizza at Breckenridge! :-o :lol:


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## SkiFanE (Apr 9, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Yup, you can't go into many sit down establishments and get a burger, fries, and drink for much less than $12 or so.
> 
> My issue with ski areas isn't high prices but rather lack of quality or portion size for the pricing. If I pay sit down restaurant prices, I expect the same quality. That is the bigger issue at many areas. Though I have noticed many areas increasing quality big time without significant jumps in pricing.
> 
> The bigger issue for me is drink prices. I've seen fountain drinks as high as $3.50-$4.00 which is an absurd margin. I try to bring a water bottle for beverages even if I plan on buying on mountain food.



I paid $5 for a SR BBQ burger on the Friday of Dumont, outdoor grill.  With all the fresh fixings, it was a decent ski area deal I thought.  But the burger was so raw, I ended up taking a couple bites and tossing it...could have gone back and complained and got another..but the $3.75 Bud tall can kept me full instead   They must have up-priced for Pond Skimming.

I know what I'm in for at ski lodges, I'm under no illusions it's a deal.  But normally the in-house Barker cheeseburger is $3.99, which isn't a bad deal.  They have a wrap sandwich with pickle and fries that's big enough for hubby and I to split, the cheaper ones are about $6 the higher ones $9...again, not bad in my mind at all.


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## snoseek (Apr 9, 2012)

Seriously go into the new mid-mtn lodge at Heavenly and order an epic burger. I was told its 18 dollars. Add a beer and a bag of chips and you alone will be at 30 dollars for lunch! 

10 dollars for a slice of pizza? Wow!


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> There's a way to go but the quality is improving.



Sunday River's food offerings both quality and selection have gotten a bad rap for years.  Good to hear they are upping their game.


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## SkiFanE (Apr 9, 2012)

snoseek said:


> How hard is it to throw some soup in a thermos or make a couple sandwiches? You have nothing but your own laziness to blame if you're not happy about paying those prices but judging by the lines the majority of the skiers are ok with the prices.
> 
> I don't know about you all but my soup is usually gonna be better than their soup.
> 
> ...



Lol..actually it's a big pain in the ass for me...tried it a couple times this year, and it wasn't worth the hassle (have to get lunches to where kids actually eat, which is diff't than where we park)...etc.  Tough enough time getting everyone out the door by 8:00am after arriving at 10-11pm the night before...just one of the things we are willing to concede we just can't deal with and toss the older kids cash every day to buy what they like.  And then the days we packed lunches, well it was cold and the ski groups stop in the lodge for a snack...so everyone else is buying a cinnabon but my kiddo had no cash...and not in lodge where lunch was stored.


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## SkiFanE (Apr 9, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Sunday River's food offerings both quality and selection have gotten a bad rap for years.  Good to hear they are upping their game.



It is what it is..IMO.  Can't say it's terrific, but again..I don't expect gourmet at a ski lodge but neither do I expect a wonderful hot meal in the middle of my ski day - I want something quick so I can refeul get back out and ski again.  Actually...this year it became a Cliff Bar (packed from home) and a Budweiser lol...a burger at lunch doesn't energize me like a cliff bar.


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## 2sons (Apr 9, 2012)

It is strange that so few places get it. The burgers up in the Octagon are pricey, but they're  well made and the 16oz. $3.75 PBR's make it worth it. MRG is spot on with china plates and real silverware and the Chili dog is pretty damned tasty. These things make me more apt to go back.


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## RENO (Apr 9, 2012)

my poor knees said:


> The Burgers and chili at K are pretty damn good. It's not priced so high that I freak out about it, but I was pissed when they took away the pass-holders discount, think it was 10% ? But I certainly wouldn't brown bag it based on the price, they're entitled to make a profit on food. It's no different than going to an amusement park or attraction or zoo or whatever.



Love the fudge brownies with the white chocolate pieces on top at K...


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## Mpdsnowman (Apr 9, 2012)

You know its funny. How does one justify a high price meal at a resort...If a person is on their own I guess their isnt much debate but for a family now were talking money that goes real fast.....


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## snoseek (Apr 9, 2012)

http://whitewhine.com/


lol


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## Highway Star (Apr 9, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> $12 outdoor deck bbq'd burgers at the Octagon on top of Stowe. Excellent burger & there was a choice of several dressings & other toppings that the server puts together for you on a freshly baked bun. There was also a variety of salads to chose from included. Not overly priced I thought considering the spectacular views from the outdoor summit deck. It didn't hurt that it was almost 70 degrees, sunshine & no wind either. This was 2 weeks ago.
> 
> At $3.50 a pop for a choice of several brands of 16.oz canned beers I was in heaven.
> 
> ...


 
Stowe has it dialed - they charge $14 for a burger plate in the spruce lodge, but's top quality and what you would get and pay for in the city.

$7 for a frozen cafeteria foodservice burger? LOL.


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## RENO (Apr 9, 2012)

Breadbowl soup and a bottle of coke mid mountain Vail $17 a few years ago. Not sure what it is now. Didn't eat there the last few times I was there. 
Good soup though! :lol:


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## Riverskier (Apr 9, 2012)

I rarely buy food at the mountain, but when I do I have found the value at Sunday River to be pretty good. St Patrick's day weekend they had a corned beef rueben on special at the Peak Lodge for 7 or 8 dollars with cole slaw. The sandwich was huge- served on a sub roll with huge slabs of meat, and was quite good. I remember thinking it would be a good value anywhere. A couple weeks ago I bought a ham italian at Barker, which came with chips for $5.99. The sandwich was just ok, but I thought the price was great. Usually if I do buy lunch it is at the Peak Lodge, as they tend to have some really good non-traditional specials for around $8.00.


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## steamboat1 (Apr 9, 2012)

Highway Star said:


> Stowe has it dialed - they charge $14 for a burger plate in the spruce lodge, but's top quality and what you would get and pay for in the city.
> 
> $7 for a frozen cafeteria foodservice burger? LOL.


I thought it was $12 down there also, maybe I'm wrong.

Burgers are always cooked fresh to order.

They also serve their food on real plates with real silverware & have someone walking around who'll pick up your plate when you're done. No need to look for the nearest trash receptacle. Did I mention granite counter tops.

While we're talking about food served at eastern ski areas I'm surprised no one has mentioned the food at Le Massif, QE. You can actually get good healthy fresh cooked food at reasonable prices.


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## abc (Apr 9, 2012)

billski said:


> Adam Smith would simply observe supply and demand.  If this is what it takes to stay in business so be it.  Recent stats confirm it's a large chunk of revenue it.  It doesn't impact the envionment, it brings more local jobs and cash infusion to the local economy.  The impact is only on your wallet.  Of course, the vocal few on this forum have learned how to deal with this, so it's not really a problem.  It is of course very entertaining.


Actually, it's for the benefit of the resort to find the best price point to make the best profit. The OP is commenting the too high price is decreasing the sale!

Though the forum's consensus is the price was not too high, the point is still worth discussing. When the food price is high and quality low, people starts brown bagging. Not just those who can't afford the price, but even though who could would refuse to be gouged. 

The other end of the spectrum, food in DV is so good people make a point of eating there! It's a mountain that makes money running lift and running a high quality restaurant. Not just a cafeteria that gouge the lazy. 

So yes, supply and demand. But the demand isn't just food, it's good food that's inline with the price.


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## oakapple (Apr 9, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> Seriously now, what is going on? I was at the River today for pond skimming. They fired up the grill and burgers smelled awesome. I ended up buying one and a dog, $7.00 and $3.50 respectively. Again, I am reminded why I brown bag it to the resort. . . .
> 
> Whose marketing idea is this? The burger was a decent burger, as was the dog. If they were to sell them for say, half that price, they'd still make a decent profit, but they would sell so many more of them, that overall their sales and profits would be much higher. There would likely be a whole lot less brown bagging it and more food bought on resort, ending up with greater profits overall.


_In general_, ski resorts get away with charging _much_ higher prices than the identical items would cost elsewhere. If it failed on this particular occasion (I'll take your word for it that it did), it is a great rarity, from which I assume they will learn.

For the most part, ski resort food is going to remain expensive because it has long since been proven that most visitors will pay those prices. The same concept works at places like airports and sports stadiums, or anywhere else that the management has a captive audience. Only a small percentage choose to brown-bag it.

And your estimate of the profit percentage is probably way, way, way off.


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## ScottySkis (Apr 9, 2012)

2 years ago when I went to Gore ,they had really good burger I remember and price was the same as all the ski areas.


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## bobbutts (Apr 9, 2012)




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## vcunning (Apr 9, 2012)

*1900' Burger at Mount Snow*

Full disclosure:  Homer alert.

My family loves this place at the Mount Snow Base Lodge.  

1900' Burger Menu.

It's a little pricey, but it's full service.  The food is off the charts.  I rarely eat at the cafeteria (except my my boys beg me for breakfast after hitting the AM Express 7:30 access line on Saturday).

The Waffle Cabin  and ZooHoos at the mountain pretty good too.

Again, not a bargain, but definitely "worth what paid".


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## ScottySkis (Apr 9, 2012)

vcunning said:


> Full disclosure:  Homer alert.
> 
> My family loves this place at the Mount Snow Base Lodge.
> 
> ...



Another great eatery@  mt snow is great deli under the hotel, same prices as the lodge but food is sweet.                              http://mountsnow.com/plan-your-trip/lodging/grand-summit-hotel/


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## billski (Apr 9, 2012)

abc said:


> A
> So yes, supply and demand. But the demand isn't just food, it's good food that's inline with the price.



Unless you are a captive audience :-D (hotel room, etc.)

In that case, I buy for convenience, not taste.  Skiing equipment, etc. is already such a hassle, especially when you have to carry skis for three   Dinner of course is an entirely different matter.


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## abc (Apr 9, 2012)

billski said:


> Unless you are a captive audience :-D (hotel room, etc.)
> 
> In that case, I buy for convenience, not taste.  Skiing equipment, etc. is already such a hassle, especially when you have to carry skis for three   Dinner of course is an entirely different matter.


But with DV, they attract even non-skiers to their on mountain restaurant!

To a small degree, their restaurant is swaying people's decision of where to ski...


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## snowmonster (Apr 9, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Sunday River's food offerings both quality and selection have gotten a bad rap for years.  Good to hear they are upping their game.



I'd like to think that this was an instance of management listening to the customers' concerns. A year or two ago, people were complaining on the SR community board about the price of food (I think it was the price and quality of the pizzas on offer) and the lack of variety. After that, I noticed improvements such as better offerings (sweet rolls at North Peak), sit-down dinners (North Peak) and more variety (Asian rice and noodle dishes). A big reason I patronize this ski area is because I feel that management goes out of its way to please its customers. You won't find too many disgruntled Sunday River regulars.


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## riverc0il (Apr 9, 2012)

I've noticed Killington's prices are above average AND above their quality. K is one of the few mountains I ALWAYS brown bag... and I have gotten quite lazy these past few years about packing a lunch. But I am never lazy when going to K.

There is more to it than supply and demand. Ski areas don't have all the information. They don't know that perfect point at which they are not charging so much that they are loosing too many sales but also not too low that they are loosing profitability. There is a lot of guess work. The sad thing is many places are not getting it right and the customer is the big looser, though the ski area looses profits too. 

If skiers feel they are being gouged as a captive audience, they won't come back. Or if they do, they'll come back with a brown bag. There has to be a premium, but the premium can't be too much and has to come with better than fast food quality. 

The funny thing is gouging vs good quality might only be the difference of a dollar or two. But I think that is where the value and quality aspects come in. You can charge more but you need to produce a better product.


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## billski (Apr 9, 2012)

Having stated the obvious, I'll help continue this discussion.
I ate twice at the Stowe Mt. Lodge for lunch.  While the Chicken Cesar salad was $12, it was giant and very well made, very fresh lettuce and chicken.  It was quite delicious.  Now, I could only eat about half of it, so it made for a great dinner.  $6 per meal, not so bad.  They hide away the to-go boxes so you gotta ask.  Somehow I managed to get it home without crushing it in my bag!

I've also had their burger - while astronomically priced, it is one or the finest burgers I've ever had.  A real hard roll, very big burger and real condiments.  While I may be cheap, there are times to splurge.  Like RC said, sometimes one just gets lazy.

Regarding not returning on account of bad food, meh, that's not me.  A terrific mountain trumps food any day. Besides, there is no time to eat anyways.


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## mlkrgr (Apr 9, 2012)

I always brown bag for the most part. If I'm on a ski bus, I brown bag for lunch and dinner (which means 2 sandwiches) as I may not have quite enough time to get something from the lodge to catch it 15 minutes before it departs the resort but who cares when I'm saving money. And then I try to compact it small enough to fit in my coat so it'd consist of a sandwich and a few energy bars. For the times I've gone on my own, it depends. I've always brown bagged all meals at K-mart as I've mostly went there for weekend trips to the Mt. Green such that I'd have to rely on a bus running infrequently other than just the expensive convenience store and probably restaurant in the front. When I used to go to North Conway, I knew enough breakfast places to eat out in town and I could find dinner reasonable enough at some informal dining establishment whether it'd be just get sushi from the case at the supermarket or go to a local pizza joint. Then, what I'd eat brown bagged would be just lunch. 

I've used to get a good deal with Stratton in terms of pricing at their restaurants that actually convinced me to go there a few times over other options (but the deal has been gone for some time now because of the economy) but now since that is now gone I brown bag it there too and it gets the same due consideration vs other resorts, which means wherever the bus is going is where I'm going in terms of who offers the best value for the range of days I want to ski and there's good conditions expected or for overnights, who offers the best value (whether it'd be staying at an independent hotel and hopping around to the different resorts or just paying for the full package at the resort).


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## Glenn (Apr 10, 2012)

I think logistics plays into it quite a bit. Especially if you look at the prices at a summit lodge. 

We tend to "snack" more vs eat at the mountain. We stay fueled with a hot cocoa, apple and a granola bar. We'll usually toss a granola bar and a box of rasins in my coat pocket before we leave in the AM.


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## billski (Apr 10, 2012)

vcunning said:


> Full disclosure:  Homer alert.



A lot of this comes down to a day tripper vs. a Vacationer.  The guy/girl who only makes it out once a year, for a few days, all excited about being at a big mountain deserves to treat themselves, if but once a year.  

While at Stowe this past spring, I saw several groups getting their picture taken at the Spruce lift, the base lodge, Mansfield.  All smiles, gawking a everything, buying souvenirs.  They were all having so much fun; this was quite a treat for them.  They may never have the opportunity to come again.  Why spoil their fun?

When I'm in the islands or out west, I know I'm getting gouged.  But I'm paying for convenience, not washing dishes and treating myself to something special.


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## hammer (Apr 10, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> Bottom line I think is that people don't mind paying for quality. If you charge $8 for a burger, make it worth $8. Otherwise, the customer feels gouged. Deer Valley and Stowe were brought up in discussion and I'd like to praise what they do food-wise. Before I went to Deer Valley, a colleague said "look, you pay the same amount to eat a hockey puck at Killington but the difference at Deer Valley is that you get a really good burger." Had a Thanksgiving meal for lunch on china and silverware at DV and didn't feel gouged at all. It was worth $13. A lot of western areas I've been to seem to have a good concept of giving you a good meal for a fair price. Some of their eastern brethren are coming around and I hope that trend continues.


I'll also chime in on DV...it's definitely pricey but the quality is well beyond what you see at most ski areas.

We're lazy so we buy lunches a lot of the time...and about the only place that I would say was worth it this season was the summit lodge at Loon.

Another reference point is theme parks which have more of a captive audience...and while a lot of those can be questionable, I can get better quality/quantity food at Disney World for the same price that I pay at most ski areas.


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## abc (Apr 10, 2012)

billski said:


> When I'm in the islands or out west, I know I'm getting gouged.  But I'm paying for convenience, not washing dishes and treating myself to something special.


I don't see that being the case "out west". In fact, on mountain lunch doesn't cost any more than the east.

It's a bit harder to brown bag when you first have to get on a plane! But I've learn over the years, the first thing I do after landing at the airport and picked up the rental car? Make a quick stop at a supermarket!


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## steamboat1 (Apr 10, 2012)

It's nice knowing someone who works at the mountain. I occasionally ski with a friend that works at Sugarbush. Sugarbush's cafeteria is high priced with menza menza quality in my opinion. We both go in & order a bunch of things for lunch. When they ring us both up at the register the bill is usually somewhere around $30. The cashier then swipes his employee card & wa-la that will be $12 please. To bad his card doesn't work at the bar.


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## vcunning (Apr 10, 2012)

I think I've seen a PBR or bottle of Moet in your jacket a few times. 

Too bad the Gladiator got cancelled.  I had you all set at the bottom of Ripcord.



Glenn said:


> I think logistics plays into it quite a bit. Especially if you look at the prices at a summit lodge.
> 
> We tend to "snack" more vs eat at the mountain. We stay fueled with a hot cocoa, apple and a granola bar. We'll usually toss a granola bar and a box of rasins in my coat pocket before we leave in the AM.


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## bobbutts (Apr 10, 2012)

I like to grab a burger or chicken fingers and obscenely large sugary drink from the lodge sometimes, especially if I feel like I'm running out of energy and the car is far away.  If I'm going somewhere that I know has good parking I'll often stop at subway on the way for a dry sub for later.  Ski bag is always packed with energy bars and other little snacks and drinks that can go in a pocket.  Not a fan of stopping in the lodge and dropping off food, so that kind of gets in the way of brown bagging.


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## Glenn (Apr 10, 2012)

vcunning said:


> I think I've seen a PBR or bottle of Moet in your jacket a few times.
> 
> Too bad the Gladiator got cancelled.  I had you all set at the bottom of Ripcord.



That's the source of the funny noises coming from my jacket. Funny noises from my pants are fiber related. :lol:


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> Second, when the burgers on mountain compare in quality to a BK whopper, I can be okay with that. But not when it costs 3 times what a whopper costs. I expect to pay more for the convenience of eating right there, but 3 times as much?



Bad comparison.  

1. You do realize that Burger King is the 3rd largest hamburger restaurant franchise in the world?  Their buying power dwarfs that of even a "franchise" ski resort like Sunday River.  It's like the difference between you a GC buying lumber at Home Depot vs what Home Depot pays for the lumber from the factory.

2. The patty size is not apples to apples.  Standard burger patty size for an outdoor bbq at a ski resort is 5.3 ounces.  A whopper is only 4 ounces.  The whopper JR you initial referenced, even less.

3. BK is a volume restaurant and can operate on lower margins than a ski resort can

4. Flavor.  The only reason a BK burger tastes good (highly debatable) is because it is loaded with an extreme amount of salt, fillers and preservatives.  I'm not suggesting Sunday River's offer is health food, but it's probably a fair bit better for you to eat than BK.

The $7 price you paid is very reasonable for a slope side BBQ IMO.


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## Highway Star (Apr 10, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Bad comparison.
> 
> 1. You do realize that Burger King is the 3rd largest hamburger restaurant franchise in the world? Their buying power dwarfs that of even a "franchise" ski resort like Sunday River. It's like the difference between you a GC buying lumber at Home Depot vs what Home Depot pays for the lumber from the factory.
> 
> ...


 
The food at killington comes out of large foodservice trucks just like at a company cafeteria or school.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I guess, at this point, I am more curious as to the profit and sales side of things. If they were to drop prices say 20%, what would happen? How would the margins look? Would they sell enough more to make it worthwhile?



Okay, so the burgers cost $5 instead of $7.  You honestly think there's going to be a line out the door over $2?

Anyone who has spent any amount of time managing F&B operations will tell you that it's not a highly profitable business to be in.  People do it because they enjoy it, not because they're looking to make huge amounts of money.  A buddy of mine operates one of the most profitable free standing restaurants I've ever heard of in ski country and turned in a profit of 25% for last year.  If he dropped his prices 20%, he'd be out of business.


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## o3jeff (Apr 10, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Okay, so the burgers cost $5 instead of $7.  You honestly think there's going to be a line out the door over $2?



At $5 if I was hungry I'd probably buy 2, at $7 I'm only getting one and will hit something up on the ride home.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2012)

Highway Star said:


> The food at killington comes out of large foodservice trucks just like at a company cafeteria or school.



I'm aware of that.  And every invoice on that truck has a different price on it depending on the customer.  

BK has their own trucks delivering the product to the individual stores.  It's a completely different league.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> At $5 if I was hungry I'd probably buy 2, at $7 I'm only getting one and will hit something up on the ride home.



See that's the thing though, you are already a buyer to begin with.  I still don't think that price reduction is enough to convince a brown bagger to buy resort food because they look at that $5 burger price and say, "That's a good deal, but I can still feed my family of 4 turkey breast sandwiches for $5."


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## gmcunni (Apr 10, 2012)

my kid usually protests when i want to brown bag it.  my daughter loves the nachos or cheese fries almost as much (more?) than the skiing.


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## o3jeff (Apr 10, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> See that's the thing though, you are already a buyer to begin with.  I still don't think that price reduction is enough to convince a brown bagger to buy resort food because they look at that $5 burger price and say, "That's a good deal, but I can still feed my family of 4 turkey breast sandwiches for $5."



Actually out of the 6 times I skied this year I bought food twice(no beverage, I usually have a couple vitamin waters in my boot bag), the rest of the times was soup, sandwiches, chips, candy and beverages we brought from home.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I gotta say I am gaining some insight into the food service business here. I never realized the margins were so thin.



extremely thin

I'll share my own personal ski resort F&B management experience......

I worked at Snowshoe, WV as an F&B manager in 2002-2003. Our yearly sales for F&B that year was $7M. My job was manager of the resort's Conference, Banquet and Catering Operations (which would include such duties as running outdoor BBQs like the one you attended that inspired this thread) as well as 3 winter season business units that included a family breakfast and dinner buffet restaurant, a night club and a cafeteria at one of the resort's 3 base areas.  

We ran extremely lean on labor, the 8 full time salaried managers all averaged 70 hours per week year round, upwards of 100 during holiday weeks.  We worked 60+ hours a week during the off seasons (zero downtime rewarded for 100 hour a week peak season effort) because to have the weekly labor budget excepted by corporate (Intrawest) we needed to lay off basically everyone for 3 months a year and the managers all pitched in to cook, dish wash, wait tables, bartend, etc. 

During the off season, I was most busy with business meetings and luncheons during the day.  All of my hourly service staff where cut during the off seasons by corporate and the night time salaried restaurant managers came and pitched in during the day to cook, dish wash, wait tables for me.  Then they'd go manage their restaurant at night and the managers like me who were busy during the day would go and cook, dishwash, barted in their restaurants. 

We ran lean as hell and had typical "ballpark prices" on our products and brought $700K of that $7M in sales to the bottom line for the year. 

Almost $2M of that $7M came from the Xmas, MLK and Pres holiday periods.  Over 25% of the yearly revenue from only 22 days of the year.  We had above average natural snow that season and great weather during the holidays.  The year prior, they had bad snow and weather, and did only $6M in F&B for the year and brought less than $200K to the bottom line for the resort.  Notice the profit number dropped much more than the gross revenue.  There's a shit ton of fixed costs in F&B and you really need to hit on all cylinders during peak periods to maximize profit for the year.  One bad holiday week of the year can be the difference between great and good yearly profit and two bad holidays of the year can mean financial disaster. 

Weather can affect seasonal business that much.  The result of the prior bad year to my time at Snowshoe was 6 of 8 salaried personnel being let go at the end of the season to preserve costs and still be able to make that $200K profit for the year.  I don't know if all ski resorts have July 1 to June 30th accounting years, but the two that I managed at did and if they had an off ski season (always because of weather not the economy) then it meant massive layoffs for both line and management staff come March 1st.

Involuntary staff turnover is extremely high at ski resorts during bad snow years.  The layoffs are ruthless.
I left Snowshoe after that winter for a better paying job at another ski area.  Voluntary staff turnover is also high at ski resorts. 

 Why?  

Because if you're trying to eek out a living in a ski town where the rents are through the roof (never mind even thinking about buying a home) and you take on a management job for the year round income security and health benefits, but you don't even get to ski much (which is what lead you to choose to live there in the 1st place) because you work 80 hours a week all season and are too tired to strap the boards on, well you go for more money.  If you're going to be miserable not skiing and working 80 hours a week where the mountain is your office, you at least want to make as much money as you can.

The following season of my "successful" season at Snowshoe was terrible weather wise.  Snowshoe did the same thing as they did the season prior to me being there.  They laid off 6 of 8 salaried managers.  The resort I left for had an equally bad year and 3 out of the 5 year round salaried staff was laid off including myself.

So during a GREAT profit year at one ski resort, I had the pleasure of working 80+ hours a week and barely skiing at all during the season.  During a bad season I had the pleasure of working 90+ hours a week and getting fired.

F&B is a TOUGH business.  60% of all new restaurants fail within 3 years.  The one's that make it have to be willing to work LONG hours for short profit.


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## riverc0il (Apr 11, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> How about this line then. There were so few people buying burgers and dogs, I suspect due to high pricing.


I can't speak for the day you observed this. But I can say that outdoor grills featuring burgers are almost always the highest volume eating locations at any mountain I visit, by my observations. The limited number of people might have been a factor of simply less people being at the mountain than usual due to late season and poor condition, perhaps? In either case, $15 burger/chip/beverage specials on an outdoor grill is par for the course and usually a happening scene. I think you observed an anomaly not due to pricing but rather something else.

Also, I think you are looking at it the wrong way comparing ski areas to a BK. The more apt comparison, I think, is a sit down restaurant with table service and burgers cooked to order. Ski areas are never going to offer fast food prices. Fast food is amongst the cheapest price you can pay for a full meal. But ski areas can bring their quality up to match their prices, that is at least within the realm of possibility as many ski areas already do.


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## snoseek (Apr 11, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> extremely thin
> 
> I'll share my own personal ski resort F&B management experience......
> 
> ...



This sounds just awful. I've had some pretty bad mgmt jobs but this definitely takes the cake. You should have skipped the mgmt job and just been a three night a week bartende, in town, away fronm the mountain. I've had many summers like you describe, most people can't fathom what its like to work like that.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> At one point, a franchise owner told me his cost to put food on the counter, it was 17 cents on the dollar.(I think I remember him saying that included labor, but I may be remembering incorrectly. In either case, that is pretty impressive.)That is the only reference point I have had in my life for what it costs to operate a restaurant.



I can believe 17% food cost at a fast food joint that is managed perfectly with zero waste.  That number most definitely did not include in labor.

Other previous F&B Management experiences had me overseeing F&B in busy year round hotels in small cities.

Corporate cost breakdown goals were pretty much: 30% Food Cost, 26% Liquor Cost, 28% Labor Cost.  So, the gross profit goals were basically 16%.  Net are much lower though.  The utilities in commercial kitchens are extremely expensive.  Equipment replacement costs are enormous.  Then you have to market your product.  That makes the 16% disappear very fast.  You make pennies on the dollar in food service.  You get a bad employee or twenty who steal or give away free booze or food (BIG PROBLEM at a ski resort) and you can lose money in a hurry even selling $7 frozen hockey puck burgers.


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## SkiFanE (Apr 11, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> I can't speak for the day you observed this. But I can say that outdoor grills featuring burgers are almost always the highest volume eating locations at any mountain I visit, by my observations. The limited number of people might have been a factor of simply less people being at the mountain than usual due to late season and poor condition, perhaps? In either case, $15 burger/chip/beverage specials on an outdoor grill is par for the course and usually a happening scene. I think you observed an anomaly not due to pricing but rather something else.
> 
> Also, I think you are looking at it the wrong way comparing ski areas to a BK. The more apt comparison, I think, is a sit down restaurant with table service and burgers cooked to order. Ski areas are never going to offer fast food prices. Fast food is amongst the cheapest price you can pay for a full meal. But ski areas can bring their quality up to match their prices, that is at least within the realm of possibility as many ski areas already do.



We arrived SR Pond Skimming day at 11:30, after festivities were over.  Place was dead by then, noone was buying burgers as hardly anyone was skiing.  The 2 weeks before when I bought my outdoor grill burger (for $5) there was a line and wait for them (a nice sunny Friday), which is why I think they rushed mine, to try to get the people served.  I think OP got it on an unusual day.  If it was sunny, 60* and not Easter there would have been a line.


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## gmcunni (Apr 11, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Actually out of the 6 times I skied this year


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## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2012)

snoseek said:


> This sounds just awful. I've had some pretty bad mgmt jobs but this definitely takes the cake. You should have skipped the mgmt job and just been a three night a week bartende, in town, away fronm the mountain. I've had many summers like you describe, most people can't fathom what its like to work like that.



Absolutely working a line level job is the way to go if you want to ski a lot and have a life outside of work.  Most bartenders I know in ski towns can make as much $$$ annually as the F&B managers of the resorts while working only 3-4 days a week and having 3 months of the year off.

The downside is - no health benefits.  If I was smart back when I still worked in ski towns, I would've stuck with bartending and married someone with health benefits. :lol:


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## Puck it (Apr 11, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Absolutely working a line level job is the way to go if you want to ski a lot and have a life outside of work. Most bartenders I know in ski towns can make as much $$$ annually as the F&B managers of the resorts while working only 3-4 days a week and having 3 months of the year off.
> 
> The downside is - no health benefits. If I was smart back when I still worked in ski towns, I would've stuck with bartending and married someone with health benefits. :lol:


 
Why shoot low? Marry rich!!


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## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2012)

Puck it said:


> Why shoot low? Marry rich!!



How old is your daughter?


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## Glenn (Apr 11, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> How old is your daughter?



:lol:


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## Puck it (Apr 11, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> How old is your daughter?


 

Not 18 yet another 3 months.  DId I see your pic on the news today from the recent sting operation?:beer:


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## bobbutts (Apr 11, 2012)

Interesting to hear about the operations at Snowshoe
Seems nearly impossible to have a high quality product with such poor working conditions/turnover and near impossible to fix those within the budget.  A place like Deer Valley can get away with $20 or whatever for a good burger, and still sell a significant enough number, so I guess the food service culture there is much different, but most resorts don't have that kind of clientele to even consider that.


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## ScottySkis (Apr 11, 2012)

bobbutts said:


> Interesting to hear about the operations at Snowshoe
> Seems nearly impossible to have a high quality oproduct with such poor working conditions/turnover and near impossible to fix those within the budget.  A place like Deer Valley can get away with $20 or whatever for a good burger, and still sell a significant enough number, so I guess the food service culture there is much different, but most resorts don't have that kind of clientele to even consider that.



I think all the food at Slc ski areas were much better then east coast area's,  i did eat a lot great food at Snowbasin, and prices were equal.  But probably easier for west coast to make profit with less snowmaking then east coast.


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## abc (Apr 11, 2012)

bobbutts said:


> A place like Deer Valley can get away with $20 or whatever for a good burger, and still sell a significant enough number, so I guess the food service culture there is much different, but most resorts don't have that kind of clientele to even consider that.


Apparently a lot of such clientel! Because Canyon's prices aren't much cheaper either. 

(To show appreciation for my friends letting me crash in their house, and showing me their secret stach, I buy them lunch when we ski together -- usually at Canyons. My lunch bill was quite...substantial!!!) 

Still, many visitors to DV are on vacation, not just to ski. So they're willing to indulge themselves for that once a year vacation.


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## drjeff (Apr 12, 2012)

bobbutts said:


> Interesting to hear about the operations at Snowshoe
> Seems nearly impossible to have a high quality product with such poor working conditions/turnover and near impossible to fix those within the budget.  A place like Deer Valley can get away with $20 or whatever for a good burger, and still sell a significant enough number, so I guess the food service culture there is much different, but most resorts don't have that kind of clientele to even consider that.



That's a bit of a misconception about the food prices at DV.  When I was there with my family just over a month ago.  Lunch for the 4 of us, for essentially the same type of meal (burger or hot dog or grilled cheese and fries for the kids, some type of soup and/or the "special" entree of the day from the grill for my wife and I, 4 drinks and a couple of cookies for dessert) cost within $5 of what a similar lunch at an Eastern ski area cost.  And both the quality and selection choices were much greater.

Overall, the food costs at DV are quite comparable to what you find at any major ski resort


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## vcunning (Apr 12, 2012)

Were the 4 drinks PBRs?



drjeff said:


> That's a bit of a misconception about the food prices at DV.  When I was there with my family just over a month ago.  Lunch for the 4 of us, for essentially the same type of meal (burger or hot dog or grilled cheese and fries for the kids, some type of soup and/or the "special" entree of the day from the grill for my wife and I, 4 drinks and a couple of cookies for dessert) cost within $5 of what a similar lunch at an Eastern ski area cost.  And both the quality and selection choices were much greater.
> 
> Overall, the food costs at DV are quite comparable to what you find at any major ski resort


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## HowieT2 (Apr 12, 2012)

bobbutts said:


> Interesting to hear about the operations at Snowshoe
> Seems nearly impossible to have a high quality product with such poor working conditions/turnover and near impossible to fix those within the budget.  A place like Deer Valley can get away with $20 or whatever for a good burger, and still sell a significant enough number, so I guess the food service culture there is much different, but most resorts don't have that kind of clientele to even consider that.



I have to say that we are very happy with the food quality in the cafeteria at sugarbush.  Its not cheap but I dont feel its outrageous either.  I want to say pizza is 5-6, burger 7, salad 8, chili 7.  something like that.


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## snoseek (Apr 12, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Absolutely working a line level job is the way to go if you want to ski a lot and have a life outside of work.  Most bartenders I know in ski towns can make as much $$$ annually as the F&B managers of the resorts while working only 3-4 days a week and having 3 months of the year off.
> 
> The downside is - no health benefits.  If I was smart back when I still worked in ski towns, I would've stuck with bartending and married someone with health benefits. :lol:



I'm actually working on this myself as I want to get away from being owned. My answer is cheap high dedutible insurance (5k), with 5k in an HSA. I have six months to make this happen as I'll be leaving the job I'm returning to by halloween. 

It's the dental thing I'd like to figure out. I need quite a bit of work. I actually am toying with the idea of going to Mexico to get this done next year.


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## Glenn (Apr 13, 2012)

vcunning said:


> Were the 4 drinks PBRs?



'Ganssetts. :lol:


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## RENO (Apr 13, 2012)

snoseek said:


> I'm actually working on this myself as I want to get away from being owned. My answer is cheap high dedutible insurance (5k), with 5k in an HSA. I have six months to make this happen as I'll be leaving the job I'm returning to by halloween.
> 
> It's the dental thing I'd like to figure out. I need quite a bit of work. I actually am toying with the idea of going to Mexico to get this done next year.



I don't know if I would trust having anything medical or dental done in Mexico! :-o  Dental work is ridiculous! My dentist told me 10 years ago when I started going to him to look at the cost of the work I need done like taking out a car loan. I asked him if that car was a Neon or a Ferrari! :lol:


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## drjeff (Apr 13, 2012)

RENO said:


> I don't know if I would trust having anything medical or dental done in Mexico! :-o  Dental work is ridiculous! My dentist told me 10 years ago when I started going to him to look at the cost of the work I need done like taking out a car loan. I asked him if that car was a Neon or a Ferrari! :lol:



I've seen about a dozen or so people over the last 15 years of practice that have gone to a foriegn country to have extensive dental work done.  *Most* of it has been of good quality, some great, some not so great. The biggest issue tends to be that some people have the notion that once they get extensive work done, that it's lifetime work and that there won't/shouldn't be any potential future issues/problems that may arise with the work.  That's the problem, because very often at some point, the very underlying problems that caused the person to need extensive work in the 1st place aren't addressed (i.e. bad diet/hygiene habits) and then when future issues arise with the foriegn work they had done, it can be an awfully long trip to get back to that dentist to have then fix the problem :idea:


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## ScottySkis (Apr 13, 2012)

P





RENO said:


> I don't know if I would trust having anything medical or dental done in Mexico! :-o  Dental work is ridiculous! My dentist told me 10 years ago when I started going to him to look at the cost of the work I need done like taking out a car loan. I asked him if that car was a Neon or a Ferrari! :lol:


I meet a fellow skiied at Alta a few years ago who told me he always gets his dental work done in SLC because it much cheaper then were hes from Caly, and you can try a clinic to.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 13, 2012)

snoseek said:


> It's the dental thing I'd like to figure out. I need quite a bit of work. I actually am toying with the idea of going to Mexico to get this done next year.



A friend recently took a vacation to Costa Rica and had some work done there.  1/3rd the cost and no complaints.


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## RENO (Apr 13, 2012)

drjeff said:


> I've seen about a dozen or so people over the last 15 years of practice that have gone to a foriegn country to have extensive dental work done.  *Most* of it has been of good quality, some great, some not so great. The biggest issue tends to be that some people have the notion that once they get extensive work done, that it's lifetime work and that there won't/shouldn't be any potential future issues/problems that may arise with the work.  That's the problem, because very often at some point, the very underlying problems that caused the person to need extensive work in the 1st place aren't addressed (i.e. bad diet/hygiene habits) and then when future issues arise with the foriegn work they had done, it can be an awfully long trip to get back to that dentist to have then fix the problem :idea:



That's why I'm sticking with my local dentist even if he's more expensive. If I have any problems he's a phone call and a few miles away. Not dealing with a foreign country for my dental or medical needs. Also not going to a dentist hundreds or thousands of miles away from home in the USA unless it's an emergency.


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## drjeff (Apr 13, 2012)

Scotty said:


> P
> I meet a fellow skiied at Alta a few years ago who told me he always gets his dental work done in SLC because it much cheaper then were hes from Caly, and you can try a clinic to.



SLC is actually a relative "hotbed" of dentistry in the US.  Up in Provo is where argueably the current "father figure" of dentistry, Dr Gordon Christensen practices and operates a very large clinic and research facility (he's the only dentist in the US who has a monthly column in the journal of the American Dental Association and runs a testing facility called Clinical Research Associates that publishes a very highly respected monthly that covers basically any and all materials involved in a modern dental office from ceramics to room disinfectants) and a large percentage of dentists in the US (and the world for that matter) have at one time or another taken a continuing education course given by Dr. Christensen.  Basically he's as close to a living "dental god" as my profession has.

Also in the greater SLC area in is Dr. Dan Fischer, who runs one of the largest dental materials companies in the US, Ultradent (this company basically developed and continues to advance the "gold standard" of modern dental materials from filling materials to bleaching systems) and there is a lareg clinical facility there which he and others practice out of.

Also, within the Mormon population, there is a large interest in the profession and given the prevalance of Mormon's in the SLC area there's a relatively speaking high saturation of dentists there and as such greater competition.

As a practicing dentist (and ski addict), SLC has GREAT potential in that almost year round, if one in the dental profession chooses to do so, a continuing education course can be found, and thus a vacation to the SLC area can become a business expense if one so chooses


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## snowmonster (Apr 13, 2012)

drjeff said:


> SLC is actually a relative "hotbed" of dentistry in the US.
> 
> Also, within the Mormon population, there is a large interest in the profession and given the prevalance of Mormon's in the SLC area there's a relatively speaking high saturation of dentists there and as such greater competition.


Probably explains why there are so many dentists on TGR.


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## SkiFanE (Apr 13, 2012)

RENO said:


> That's why I'm sticking with my local dentist even if he's more expensive. If I have any problems he's a phone call and a few miles away. Not dealing with a foreign country for my dental or medical needs. Also not going to a dentist hundreds or thousands of miles away from home in the USA unless it's an emergency.



I've been going to the same dentist since I was 13yo...luckily for him my teeth have probably put at least one of his kids through an Ivy league college lol.  NOTHING from him has ever failed.  Was in a bind once when traveling alot and his hours wouldn't work for me and I needed a crown sorta quick, so went to my friend's brother, who is a dentist.  This was about 6-7 years ago.  Well..it's already starting to fail and I got a cavity underneath it...nothing "my" dentist has ever done has failed...so bummed...may have to get it re-crowned ($$) if his fix didn't work.  Also told by some friends that I should start getting my metal fillings refilled with porcelein modern ones (or something)..approached him about it and he said every filling in my head is fine... he did them all  , no need to do this.  He's started slowing down and is on retirement track..boo hoo...my Dad found him right out of dental school, will miss him terribly (my kids and hubby go to him too).  So..my point is..dentist quality varies.  My FIL gets all his major dental work in Hungary.  He even got his cataracts done there...the price was still cheaper than it would have been in the US after his insurance and deductibles were paid.  There is actually a little industry of tourism healthcare, or something (I think Thailand is big for some things).  Me...I don't know...I'd wanna be close to home if something every happened, no matter the $.


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## steamboat1 (Apr 13, 2012)

Any good food in dental offices?

If yes how much does it cost?


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## vdk03 (Apr 13, 2012)

snoseek said:


> I'm actually working on this myself as I want to get away from being owned. My answer is cheap high dedutible insurance (5k), with 5k in an HSA. I have six months to make this happen as I'll be leaving the job I'm returning to by halloween.
> 
> It's the dental thing I'd like to figure out. I need quite a bit of work. I actually am toying with the idea of going to Mexico to get this done next year.



Went to the dentist in Thailand this summer and was very impressed. I was skeptical going but once I got there saw the facilities and talked with the dentist my worries went away, it was actually quite a bit nicer than my dentist back here in the states and about a Quarter of the cost. 

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk


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## billski (Apr 13, 2012)

From what I hear, there are some pretty good eats and drinks in the parking lot.


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## abc (Apr 13, 2012)

The thread has drifted away...

Dental works aren't life and death. So doing it outside the country is not as risky as other medical procedures.

On the other hand, as many had pointed out, quality varies a lot. So, you'll want to find a GOOD source before going. (typically, you probably want to get quite a few teeth done so if quality isn't good, you got a lot more follow up to do, which defeats the purpose of saving money). 

 I grew up in a third world country, I can tell you the dental work I had back in my birth country were better quality than some of the ones I got done here! The other end of spectrum, I also lucked out with a very good dentist here too (not just good, excellent)!


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## drjeff (Apr 13, 2012)

abc said:


> The thread has drifted away...
> 
> Dental works aren't life and death. So doing it outside the country is not as risky as other medical procedures.
> 
> ...



The reality is, and there are numerous studies backing this up, is to the general public, what constitutes a "good" dentist has more to do with the personality of the dentist (and his/her staff), did he/she cause any pain, and what the cost/perceived value was more than what we in the profession look at for "good" work (size + detectability of the margins of the restoration, the overall color profile and depth of color of the restoration, anatomical contours, adjacent gum tissue health, etc)

To be 100% honest, the longevity of a restoration has far more to due with the patients dietary and hygiene habits over time than the "quality" of the work, as i've seen literally thousands of what on the surface often appear as "crappy" restorations that have been functioning without a single problem for over 25yrs and also plenty of technically superior restorations that have failed within 2your to 3yrs after placement  As I tell my patients, I only guarentee my work won't fail until they leave my office, since after that the longevity is up to how THEY take care of it, and just like their car needs regular care and maintenance for longevity sake, so do obe's teeth (real or fake)


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## abc (Apr 14, 2012)

When the same dentist did TWO teeth, and BOTH of them cracked within 6 months, I can't see why it's NOT a quality issue. 

In the mean time, fillings done 6 YEARS prior were still holding fine. So did some in between the time, by other (American) dentist. 

As a dentist, you may or may not have the patient history. But I do, the history of my own teeth! 

I'll take luck if just one of the two failed. But reality is, none of my prior (or since) fillings last less than 5 years (many lasted more). To have 100% failure has to be a skill (and/of) quality problem. Further more, the re-do of those 2 fillings, by a different dentist, lasted years since. Tell me it's not a bad dentist! Fancy office he had too...


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## ScottySkis (Apr 14, 2012)

Dental insurance is it worth the price,  I guess we need to change name of this threads,  at least its food related, lol.


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## mlkrgr (Apr 15, 2012)

billski said:


> From what I hear, there are some pretty good eats and drinks in the parking lot.



I second that; I do not understand why parking lots of chain restaurants like Bahama Breeze are crowded and sometimes overflowing; cars were parking on the street last night and in an unofficial dirt lot. Food at most chain restaurants tends to have a lot of sodium, which can be bad for you (that's why I've been sweating so much after eating a lot of Easter ham but it's a once in a year delicacy for me).


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## Riverskier (Apr 16, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> Seriously now, what is going on? I was at the River today for pond skimming. They fired up the grill and burgers smelled awesome. I ended up buying one and a dog, $7.00 and $3.50 respectively. Again, I am reminded why I brown bag it to the resort.
> 
> The entire time of the event, I saw not one burger or dog in the hands of the spectators, not one. And afterwards, when I got mine, right in the crowd, not one other person ordered anything the entire time I was there getting my order or adding the condiments.
> 
> ...



Your voice was heard! They had the grills going at Barker yesterday and burgers were $5.00 and dogs were $2.50.


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## snowmonster (Apr 16, 2012)

Lobster rolls were $8. Two for $15. I don't think it gets better than that! Skipped the lines at the passholders' barbecue and had a $5 cheeseburger to get back on the hill quickly. Didn't want to miss the naked skiers doing backflips!


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## SkiFanE (Apr 16, 2012)

Riverskier said:


> Your voice was heard! They had the grills going at Barker yesterday and burgers were $5.00 and dogs were $2.50.



Naw...they were always $5.  Either the one day OP was there they hiked them up to $7, but every other day I've been there, it's been $5.  The lobstah rolls, everything has always seemed like a decent deal to me.


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## Riverskier (Apr 16, 2012)

SkiFanE said:


> Naw...they were always $5.  Either the one day OP was there they hiked them up to $7, but every other day I've been there, it's been $5.  The lobstah rolls, everything has always seemed like a decent deal to me.



I don't pay attention to prices typically, but I don't doubt what you are saying. My post was meant more as a joke really. I just happened to glance at the prices yesterday, and laughed thinking back to this thread.

I enjoyed the free food at the season's pass holder bbq, especially the shrimp! They really put out a pretty good spread for a free meal.


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## SkiFanE (Apr 16, 2012)

Riverskier said:


> I don't pay attention to prices typically, but I don't doubt what you are saying. My post was meant more as a joke really. I just happened to glance at the prices yesterday, and laughed thinking back to this thread.
> 
> I enjoyed the free food at the season's pass holder bbq, especially the shrimp! They really put out a pretty good spread for a free meal.



We didn't get to So. Ridge for the freebie - didn't have much time to kill so spent it all on the snow lol...it's usually good, just involves waiting.


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## mlkrgr (Apr 16, 2012)

SkiFanE said:


> We didn't get to So. Ridge for the freebie - didn't have much time to kill so spent it all on the snow lol...it's usually good, just involves waiting.



Yeah; the only time I've really stopped skiing is when I was hired on contract to consult for Stratton (effectively getting paid to eat at an on mountain establishment and report on the experience) but those days are long gone. I do not even pay up for on mountain food if the skiing is free. The best food tends to be at the sit down restaurants on mountain (such as Grizzly's) and it just takes too much time. That's why I typically pack things that are dense into my coat/ski pants such as energy bars and a sandwich to keep on going.


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