# Tune ups



## rob56789 (Dec 15, 2006)

How often should i get my skis waxed and edges sharpened.  Also should i have the binding test done once in a while?

And does anyone have any advice on Airplane travel with skis.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 15, 2006)

Lots of questions here!  

Wax and tuning:  I do my skis once every two or three days, depending on the conditions and how the skis wear.  Now I tune my own skis mind you....

Some people can go three days.  Others only one.  And some go for seven.  I'd say at the very least once every ten days if you can and that is the bare minimum.  The more often you tune your skis the better they perform and the more fun you have.  A waxed ski also is less likely to be damaged by ice/rocks because the wax will protect the base.  

As for shipping skis by plane--my advice is to leave them at home if you can and rent.  Things are disappearing on flights more often than ever before.  I would not risk it and would welcome demoing some new skis!


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## MAD777 (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: Tune ups & air travel*

My take on tuning.  
If you ski hard, all day on icey slopes, tune them every day. If you are an intermediate skier and take long breaks, quit early and the snow cover is good and soft, you may go a week.  

I tune and wax my own skis and I don't want anyone else tuning my boards. My biggest gripe is hotels that don't let you carry your skis to your room!  For instance, I love Sunday River ski area and stay in the ski in/ski out Grand Summit Hotel/Condo. The place has a wonderful, friendly, smiling staff that takes you skis at the door and asks how your day of skiing went; I love them. BUT, they lock my skis away in a big room next to the ski out door so the next morning, I simply walk to the door, hand them my claim ticket, click in and I'm skiing. So convenient! BUT, I can't tune and wax my skis, darn it all, and if you get caught with skis in your room, you get fined! Couldn't they provide a "tuning shed" for us gear gekes?

OK, rant over. Now I feel better.

Airline travel:
I live and work in Florida (and have land in the White Mtns. to retire - can't wait!) so I fly a few times a year to New England and to the West. I always carry my skiis (and have been doing so for over 25 years) in a typical ski bag. I go to Office Depot and buy a long roll of bubble wrap and wrap the skis. I line the bottom of the bag with clothing, place the wrapped skis and then pack more clothes on the sides and top.  I pack enough clothes to require some work to close the zippper (without putting too much stress on the zipper. I have never had a problem with this method and (especially in today's strict airline rule environment) it allows me to carry more items with the two bag limitation. My other bag is a ski duffle with boot compartments at each end. Don't forget to stuff socks, hankerchiefs, etc. inside your boots to save more room. Also, pack clothes around the boots, as much as possible, to protect them. Remember to face the buckles inward toward the center of the bag, so that they are not exposed to external impact from the baggage gorillas!


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## rob56789 (Dec 16, 2006)

Thx alot for the advice i have a trip booked to salt lake city in mid march and have never traveled with my skis so this really helps alot


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## Charlie Schuessler (Dec 16, 2006)

Simple stuff to do between shop tune-ups.
1. Towel dry your boots, skis and bindings after each use at the mountain.
2. Gummi stone your edges each day out to remove the burrs.
3. Depending on the conditions wax them regularly.  Inspect the bases & edges for repairs make them as needed.
4. Annual binding checks are good most recreational skiers.  It is recommended more often for racers and at least every 30-days or so for advanced skiers.

As for traveling, if you're an east coast skier heading to the powder resorts, bring your boots and rent powder skis and have fun!


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## bvibert (Dec 17, 2006)

FWIW I went about 40 skiing days between my last two tune-ups... 

That's a little extreme, but obviously I don't buy into the tune every 1-3 days thing...


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## kbroderick (Dec 17, 2006)

It depends on the skis and the conditions.  I can feel the deterioration on my race skis after five or six _runs_ on hard snow, and I usually tune those before each outing.  My rock skis, on the other hand, are now in a condition such that I wouldn't want to risk running them over an edge grinder because I'd end up sharpening p-tex (and they might damage the grinder).  Those only go into the shop if the need more epoxy work, but they still work fine on soft snow.  They're damn near impossible to use properly on hard snow, however.

As far as my new all-around skis are concerned, I plan on tuning them once a week or so (roughly every three-five ski days), just to keep the burrs evened out and the core shots sealed up--but they're not even mounted yet, so we'll see how that goes.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 17, 2006)

bvibert said:


> FWIW I went about 40 skiing days between my last two tune-ups...
> 
> That's a little extreme, but obviously I don't buy into the tune every 1-3 days thing...



I think if you tuned your skis and put wax on every 1-3 days, you'd notice the difference.  I will not go back, but I have the knowledge and place/time to do my skis.


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## bvibert (Dec 17, 2006)

I'd like to be able to tune my skis myself, but I don't usually have the time and I definitely don't have the space...

I plan on giving the shop at the mountain I work at a shot this year since they're the only shop that's convenient to me.  The only other option that I know of is about 30 minutes away and they always want to keep my skis for at least a week... :roll:


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 18, 2006)

I deburr my edges after each time out, check bases for gouges.....

After each day on the snow... 
1) Check both your base and side edges for nicks and burrs...especially the inside front edges. Deburr these using a deburring stone in conjunction with your bevel device or guide, followed by a polishing stone.
2) Check your base for gouges. If they are shallow, you can either fill them now, or wait til your weekly tune-up. If they are deep, or you see fiberglass or core material exposed, fill them immediately. Remove excess repair material afterwards.
3) Check your base for dry or oxidized areas. This indicates that the base needs waxing. A hot wax is best, but a rub-on liquid or paste wax will do in a pinch.
4) After hot waxing, let the base cool for 20-30 minutes. Then scrape off excess wax with a plastic scraper and brush all remaining wax out of the base structure with a nylon, steel, brass or combo brush.
5) Fasten skis together using a strap or base protector that keeps bases from rubbing against each other.
6) Wipe off ski or snowboard top with clean dry rag.


Once a week, or after 3-5 days on the snow... 
1) All the above daily steps, plus...
2) Lightly file side edges (but not base edges) using a steel mill file in conjunction with a side bevel device or guide. This resharpens them for better edgehold...especially on hardpack snow.
3) Hot scrape bases to clean them. This is the same as a hot wax, but you use a soft (warm temperature range) wax, and scrape it immediately after ironing...don' t let the base cool first. This pulls dirt out of the base better than any other method. Follow this with a regular hot wax.
4) Check base for gouges...fill any and all gouges if possible.
5) Pull liners out of your ski or snowboard boots to let everything completely dry out.
6) Spray a little boot/binding lubricant on boots, bindings and ski or snowboard tops (but not bases)...this'll help prevent snow build-up.


Once a month, or after 15-18 days on the snow... 
1) All the above daily and weekly steps, plus...
2) Check your base with a true bar for flatness, and correct if necessary.
3) Check base structure for wear, and refresh or restructure if necessary.
4) Check binding mounting screws (but not release adjustments!) and make sure they are snug.
5) Check poles for worn baskets, straps, etc., and repair as necessary. Ditto for your goggles


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## Grassi21 (Dec 18, 2006)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> I deburr my edges after each time out, check bases for gouges.....
> 
> After each day on the snow...
> 1) Check both your base and side edges for nicks and burrs...especially the inside front edges. Deburr these using a deburring stone in conjunction with your bevel device or guide, followed by a polishing stone.
> ...



This is all great information.  But where did all of you guys learn how to tune?  Observation? Class?  I want to learn and start maintaining our equipment, especially since we hope to have little ones who ski down the line.  I have no problem spending the time or investing in the equipment but the idea of getting at my edges with a no experience scares me.


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## jack97 (Dec 18, 2006)

Grassi21 said:


> This is all great information.  But where did all of you guys learn how to tune?  Observation? Class?  I want to learn and start maintaining our equipment, especially since we hope to have little ones who ski down the line.  I have no problem spending the time or investing in the equipment but the idea of getting at my edges with a no experience scares me.



There's a book title "tip to tail" Rader, a how to for tuning skis. I also saw a web site with vids (maybe from toko) on waxing. 

Only way to gain experience is by doing it, I tried it when I got permission to get a second pair of skis (if you know what I mean). I praticed on my older skis which turned into rock skis; sharpening the edges, apply wax and brushing/buffing until they were as good as the shop.


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## andyzee (Dec 18, 2006)

For travel, I got this ski carrier:






Can be found here: http://www.sunandski.com/Sportubes_Series_3_Snowboard_Tube_p/3461064600310.htm Sports Authority or most ski shops


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 19, 2006)

check out www.tognar.com  they have every piece of gear you'll ever need to tune. they also have great vids/books and their phone tech support is great....basic tuning is not that difficult...amazes me that people buy $1000 skis and dont take care of them..its very easy


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## MAD777 (Dec 19, 2006)

Reliableracing.com is another tool supplier that I purchase from with good results.


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## kbroderick (Dec 19, 2006)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> (CHOMP)
> 4) After hot waxing, let the base cool for 20-30 minutes. Then scrape off excess wax with a plastic scraper and brush all remaining wax out of the base structure with a nylon, steel, brass or combo brush.
> (CHOMP)



You mixed in a bit of bad advice with a lot of good advice, so please pardon my OCD-ness in pointing out that you do _not_ want to use a metal brush after waxing.  Metal brushes are for use prior to waxing, not after it (well, unless you're about to do another cycle of waxing).  Brass brushes should be used to clean the base and open up the structure (more on that in a minute); steel brushes can be used to "refresh" a structure and deal with oxidized bases, based on what I've found with Google--I don't use a steel brush very often (read: never have) myself.

Pre-hot-wax brushing with a brass brush should be done after all edge work is done but before waxing the bases; if base repair is needed, it should be done before and after base repairs.  Brushing with a brass brush has two important functions:
1. It removes all sorts of crap from the base, including the metal filings you created while working on your edges
2. It opens up and refreshes the structure of the base so that the new wax will work better.
Using a brass brush regularly (and correctly) will result in a ski base that performs better, longer, even when it's not properly waxed.

I'd suggest that it's not really necessary to brush after scraping for most uses; usually, I only bother if I'm going to carry my skis to a race start (something I haven't done in years), or if I'm about to run a race and I haven't skied off the wax that was left after scraping (which is also pretty rare--a few runs on Eastern snow will generally take care of the excess wax).


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## jack97 (Dec 19, 2006)

kbroderick said:


> I'd suggest that it's not really necessary to brush after scraping for most uses; usually, I only bother if I'm going to carry my skis to a race start (something I haven't done in years), or if I'm about to run a race and I haven't skied off the wax that was left after scraping (which is also pretty rare--a few runs on Eastern snow will generally take care of the excess wax).



yeah, with my skis, I usually don't  brush after scraping, I don't see the point of it. For the majority of skiers in the East, I think it just cosmetics.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 19, 2006)

I usually do scrape then brush as I'm usually not done with my bottle of merlot and need to just spend some more time in the basement watching ski porn....


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## MAD777 (Dec 19, 2006)

skiquatro,

Now THAT'S what I call good tuning techique!


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## Bumpsis (Dec 19, 2006)

Some of you guys sound like seriously obsessed equipment junkies.
Tune up every few days? Perhaps, if you're racing, but for general skiing that's a serious overkill.

I'll have the skis tuned if my edges don't bite into the hard stuff any more and since I rarely ski when the conditions are crappy - couple of tune ups per season and then, an occasional pass with a file is just fine.


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## andyzee (Dec 20, 2006)

I usually ski Saturdays and Sundays and have my skis tuned after each trip. Used to tune them myself, but season tunes are so cheap I got one for myself and my wife. We drop the skis off at the shop on Sunday, pick them up on the following Saturday.


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## koreshot (Dec 20, 2006)

Bumpsis said:


> Some of you guys sound like seriously obsessed equipment junkies.
> Tune up every few days? Perhaps, if you're racing, but for general skiing that's a serious overkill.
> 
> I'll have the skis tuned if my edges don't bite into the hard stuff any more and since I rarely ski when the conditions are crappy - couple of tune ups per season and then, an occasional pass with a file is just fine.



I agree.  I have been tuning my skis for the last 3 years and firmly believe that under normal (average advance skier) use, under normal East Coast conditions (hard, icy snow) frequent edge tunes don't make much of a difference.  Sure, if the bevel on a ski is way off and the tips and tails of the ski are not detuned, the skis will get hooky and impact your skiing, but I think that most skiers out there can take a ski with a factory tune and ski the crap out of it for 30+ days before needing any edge work.  The only exception to this are edges that are beat up from rocks. For most advanced skiers, skill, and not the edge tune, remains the bigger limiting factor. My normal process during the winter is to tune the skis in the beginning of the season and retune again by simply taking rock digs and rust out of the edges as needed.

As far as wax goes.  Regular waxing makes more of a difference, though even here, waxing every day is probably overkill.

That said - more power to people that tune and wax frequently and regularly.  A good edge tune and wax can't hurt, so if you have the time/devotion/money/knowhow and enjoy it, why the hell not!


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## andyzee (Dec 20, 2006)

My mistake, when I said tune every week, I did mean wax and if anything just smoothing out the edges, base grind if needed. The shop I take my skis to also does this.


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## jack97 (Dec 20, 2006)

andyzee said:


> My mistake, when I said tune every week, I did mean wax and if anything just smoothing out the edges, base grind if needed. The shop I take my skis to also does this.



Don't mean to be cynical but it's in the shop interest to suggest this. I tune based on inspection. Wax only when I signs the base is drying. If I been skiing on hard granular or in the glades, I check the edges and the base in case of p tex repair. 

IMO, I only go overboard on keeping the edges sharp. I don't know when I will go skiing, so I want to  keep them sharp for any type of conditions.


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## kbroderick (Dec 20, 2006)

One other reason to tune more often: it's a lot easier.  If you tune every few ski days, you can keep your skis performing well and in good repair without a whole lot of work.  Once you've got a whole season's worth of rock damage, it's going to take a lot more effort to repair the skis.  When I tune my race skis (which are also my ski-well-covered groomer skis), I usually just provide a light touch on the edges and wax 'em nicely; the few times last year when I attacked the edges on my all-around skis (that go in the glades, over the rocks, and whatnot), it was quite a bit more of an effort; that's one of the reasons I firmly intend to stay on top of tuning on my new all-around skis.  And I stopped waxing those a while ago, for fear of damaging the iron due to the edge condition.

(Says Kevin, who started the evening with edge separation on one ski and finished the evening with edge separation on both of the old "all-around" skis, and who is really looking forward to having a bit more snow and having his new skis mounted.)


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 21, 2006)

dont think your edges get dull quick esp on east coast hardpack...try this from Tognar and you'll be taking better care of those edges...

SKIVISIONS TUNING STICK
Checking the sharpness of steel edges has long been a bit of a guessing game for most tuners. Shaving the face of your fingernail, or dragging the side of a pinkie finger across an edge doesn't provide consistently reliable or accurate feedback...unless maybe you're an ultra-experienced World Cup level technician.
This tuning stick helps resolve that. It's made of a special hard plastic that subtly communicates how sharp or dull your edges are. You hold it at a 45-degree angle to the edge and, bearing down with moderate pressure, simply slide and try to shave some stick material away. If the edge is sharp, you'll feel and hear a noticeable resistance and sound. If the edge is dull, the stick will not shave...but slide without much resistance or sound. 
When you first get a tuning stick, try it on some edges you've ridden for a day or two. You'll be surprised how much duller they usually feel underfoot (due to greater wear from skier/rider weight and pressure) than at the tips and tails. Try it again after tuning and see the difference...it will be noticeable if you've tuned effectively. If you impart a sharper bevel angle underfoot than at the tips and tails, the stick will also detect this. Likewise, you'll also be able to hear and feel the difference between burred edges and deburred/polished edges.
The SkiVisions tuning stick is such a simple yet revealing tool that can give you invaluable tuning feedback


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## KevinF (Dec 21, 2006)

koreshot said:


> I agree.  I have been tuning my skis for the last 3 years and firmly believe that under normal (average advance skier) use, under normal East Coast conditions (hard, icy snow) frequent edge tunes don't make much of a difference.  Sure, if the bevel on a ski is way off and the tips and tails of the ski are not detuned, the skis will get hooky and impact your skiing, but I think that most skiers out there can take a ski with a factory tune and ski the crap out of it for 30+ days before needing any edge work.



I agree with this only because most people ski with a "technique" that gives them little hope of having their edges grip on New England hardpack, even with skis fresh out of the wrapper.  If your technique has developed to the point that you can consistenly carve, then I believe you need your skis to be consistently sharp.  I can easily tell after two or three days of all-day skiing that my skis are shot and that they need some love.  There's a reason racers tune their skis daily.


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## koreshot (Dec 21, 2006)

KevinF said:


> There's a reason racers tune their skis daily.



Yup, and there is a reason that world cup downhill racers can rip down a steep, nasty bump run on their race tuned and race spec SuperG skis (I have seen this with my own eyes)... something an average advanced skier would never dream of.  It still boils down to skill.  Yes gear helps but IMO for level 7, 8 and even 9 skiers, which is where most of us on the forum fall, as long as the edges are in decent condition (no rust and deep digs - just natural wear induced by snow contact) skill is by far the biggest limiting factor.  Whether it is carving, bumps, powder, air, whatever.

Hand Bode Miller a pair of beat up Fischer RX9s and see if you can beat him down any race course on a pair of perfectly tuned race sticks.  My guess is that it wouldn't even be close.

This is why I said before that if people feel like tuning their skis every other ski day because it makes them feel better, they have the time & money and they get enjoyment out of it, great!  It will even help them ski better and improve, so why not!  But the reality still is that the biggest limiting factor for most weekend warriors, and this absolutely includes me as well, is skill.  This is why I generally try not to worry about a perfect edge tune, just clean the edges and tune once, maybe twice a year which usually works out to every 20 or so days on the hill.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm in the every 2 to 3 day (once a weekend) tune category myself. And as the years have gone on (I've been a hand tuner since the mid 80's) and free time has decreased and I've gone from racer to weekend ski-addict skier,  I've changed my regime a bit to make it more efficient.  

First off,  I have found it so much easier to find the time to tune my skiis since I moved my work bench about 10 feet from my beer fridge!  Secondly, although not quite as precise,  I've grown to love the efficiency and convience of the Ski Visions products (both the base planer and the edge sharpener).  The base planer does a nice job at keeping things flat and if you do some major edge damage, the cutting bar will quickly level the protruding metal off the base side of the edge,  plsu you can insert the stone structure bar prior to waxing for a quick opening of the base structure for wax increassed wax acceptance.  A couple of quick passes and you have a flat base in under a minute.

The edge sharpener is nice in that you can set your base and side angles from 0 to 3 degrees and simultaneously get both the base and sides of the edge sharpened in 1 pass.  Most of the time I use a 300 grit ceramic stone for primary sharpening and then finish with the gummi stone insert for polishing,  and if major edge structural damage needs attention I'll put the regular metal file inserts in.  A couple of passes over each edge and the edges are sharp in about a minute.  So basically 2 minutes after I start a ski, I'm ready for wax.  

I've become a fan of stuntwax (www.stuntwax.com), it was basically invented by an instructor/chemical engineer who was tired of trying to find the time to wax his skiis 5 days a week and wanted something more durable that would glide well over a wide range of temps/snow conditions.  I iron it on as ususal, and then they tell you not to scrape.  I can honestly say that it lasts a solid 3 20 runs days over the gnarliest of scratchy eastern hardpack and I've found the glide smooth and consistent in everything from new made at 0 degrees to wet spring snow and everything in between.  Okay, the glide might not be as slick as if you go crazy with high fluoro additives and temp specific waxes,  but its a darn good everyday wax.  Figure about 5 minutes per ski for waxing, and I'll have a pair tuned in under 15 minutes (maybe a few extra minutes depending on how many beers I have per pair!)

If you start tuning yourself,  for an iron, just look at your local walmart for a small, flat, smooth based travel iron (you don't want steam vents on the base or else you'll block them up with wax in about 1 set of skiis).  Basically,  once you get your supplies, your yearly cost for a freshly tuned/waxed pair of skiis on the hill is quite minimal.  Per season, which is typically about 80 days on the hill for me and my wife-40 days each -(basically 15 to 20 tunes),  I'll go through less than $100 in tuning supplies ($75 or so in wax for the year and then I'll typically replace one or multiple sets of my file inserts per season as needed)


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2006)

rob56789 said:


> And does anyone have any advice on Airplane travel with skis.



What I've done my last couple of trips to Utah (especially now that I have 2 young children to tote around the airport and all their associated kid gear), is ship my skiis/gear via Fed-Ex directly to the hotel I stay at.  A pair of skiis from the East Coast to Utah for 3 day shipping (with a e-mail tracking number so you know EXACTLY where they are) is about $100 each way.  A bit pricey, yes,  but less gear to handle and a more reliable means of getting your gear from home to vacation location is worth it to me.  Most hotels and even some ski resorts(I know you can ship your skiis directly to and from the base lodge at Deer Valley) will easily be able to help you with this.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 28, 2006)

i make sure i am totally packed a good 1.5 weeks before i leave and UPS all my bags to the hotel...its not much money and its alot easier traveling without lugging around the big bags, just grab your carry on and go...then i have the hotel ship everything back to my house....


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## njskier (Dec 30, 2006)

can anyone reccomend a tune up kit good for both ski's and snow boards?


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## koreshot (Dec 30, 2006)

njskier said:


> can anyone reccomend a tune up kit good for both ski's and snow boards?



Welcome njskier.  I can't answer your questions directly, but I can give you a pretty good source for ski/snowboard tuning gear. http://www.tognar.com/

I don't know much about snowboards, but given that the construction and materials are pretty much the same, my guess is that any ski tuning kit would more or less work on a snowboard... but don't take my word for it, wait for someone that knows more on this topic to respond.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 3, 2007)

if anyone will have it, it'll be TOGNAR


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## MarkC (Jan 11, 2007)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> I'm usually not done with my bottle of merlot and need to just spend some more time in the basement watching ski porn....



You have the right idea.  I usually do most of my tuning at the plattekill bar.:beer:


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 11, 2007)

just looked at the wine fridge, i'm outta reds and only 5 bottle of whites, 2 bottle of Bailey (original and mint) a bottle of Perrier Jouet Champagne and a bottle of Grey Goose is all thats left...time to reorder yet another 50 bottles......


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