# Eastern Olympic Venues other than Whiteface



## skiersleft (Sep 11, 2012)

Are there more resorts other than Whiteface in the East that have the necessary runs to host olympic ski events and the beds to accommodate everyone?

Just curious. It would be really cool to get the Olympics back to the USA, and it would be awesome to get them going in the East.


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## AdironRider (Sep 11, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> Are there more resorts other than Whiteface in the East that have the necessary runs to host olympic ski events and the beds to accommodate everyone?
> 
> Just curious. It would be really cool to get the Olympics back to the USA, and it would be awesome to get them going in the East.



Never going to happen. Not being pessimistic, but in 80 they had to truck in snow to Whiteface. Pretty much nailed the coffin for an East Coast winter Olympics. 

Plus the Olympics are more about the almighty dollar these days than they used to be. Tough to get that done at any East Coast skiing venue, just to far from a major population center, facilities, etc. 

If it does come back to the States, it'll be out West. If I were to bet, it would be Vail. 

Which is fine by me. While it would be cool on the East Coast, if the US hosts an Olympics, it shouldn't be at a B league venue. I only see Whiteface and Sugarloaf as even close to having the necessary sustained pitch/terrain, but they aren't exactly northern VT in terms of snow.


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## skiersleft (Sep 11, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Never going to happen. Not being pessimistic, but in 80 they had to truck in snow to Whiteface.
> 
> Plus the Olympics are more about the almighty dollar these days than they used to be. Tough to get that done at any East Coast skiing venue, just to far from a major population center.
> 
> If it does come back to the States, it'll be out West. If I were to bet, it would be Vail.



OK, but does any other resort have the capacity? At least in theory?


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## AdironRider (Sep 11, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> OK, but does any other resort have the capacity? At least in theory?



Made an edit as I realized I didnt really answer the question. 

I think a couple other hills would have the potential, there just isnt that much vert (thinking downhill courses here) at most East Coast hills to host the event these days. I believe the minimum vert needed is like 2600-2800 feet to run a downhill.


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 11, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> OK, but does any other resort have the capacity? At least in theory?



I dont think so.  In order to have a Downhill race they must have a 2640- 3,300 ft vertical drop.  While places have the vertical, its not a continuous steep run for the event.


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## skiersleft (Sep 11, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Made an edit as I realized I didnt really answer the question.
> 
> I think a couple other hills would have the potential, there just isnt that much vert (thinking downhill courses here) at most East Coast hills to host the event these days. I believe the minimum vert needed is like 2600-2800 feet to run a downhill.



How about Sugarbush?


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## ScottySkis (Sep 11, 2012)

Bear pen in Ny Catskills would have the vertical any they get lots of lake effect snow too , but they never opened again . They were going to reopen with financial backers from around the world into this horrible day took place 11 years ago.


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## drjeff (Sep 11, 2012)

The reality is that if you really wanted to get a Northeastern winter olympics, in the modern sense of the size and financial scale that they're on today, Lake Placid is almost too small and too much of an investment needed in the infastructure to macke it "big" enough.

You could possibly look at Boston as a venue though.  Think Vancouver - the skating, hockey and heck even some of the snowboarding 1/2pipe and even boarder/skier cross and nordic skiing and bobsled + luge events could be held within an hour of Boston.  The alpine events and ski jumping would have the organizers looking towards the White or Green Mountains - remember in Vancouver, the alpine events were in Whistler which isn't much of a difference in drive time to Vancouver than many of the peaks of the size you'd need in the Greens and White's are from Boston.

Likely, probably not (Denver is actually next up for the USOC winter bid for the 2022 games).  Possible, sure


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## riverc0il (Sep 11, 2012)

Sugarloaf has the vertical but not as much continuously steep vertical as Whiteface. But Downhill run aside, I just don't see the northeast having the infrastructure to host the games. All the venues now have massive build up but I can't see it happening in the northeast.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 11, 2012)

I believe Quebec City tried to attract the Olympics several years ago.

Mont Sainte Anne & Le Massif would host the alpine events.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 11, 2012)

I love QC and think it would be a great spot for the games.  I do believe Massif would need to build a few hundred more Vert onto their downhill course.  I think it's sanctioned for women's DH, but falls a fair bit short for a men's DH.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 11, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> I love QC and think it would be a great spot for the games.  I do believe Massif would need to build a few hundred more Vert onto their downhill course.  I think it's sanctioned for women's DH, but falls a fair bit short for a men's DH.


Le Massif's down hill course is 2,465 vert. The minimum requirement for an Olympic mens downhill is 2,624 vert. Considering Le Massif already added several hundred feet of vert. with the Pyramid they built on top another 160 feet is not a big deal in my eyes.

Plus they would love any reason to build an ice hockey arena up there to attract an NHL team once again.

If anywhere in the east Quebec City would be the place.


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## skiersleft (Sep 12, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Le Massif's down hill course is 2,465 vert. The minimum requirement for an Olympic mens downhill is 2,624 vert. Considering Le Massif already added several hundred feet of vert. with the Pyramid they built on top another 160 feet is not a big deal in my eyes.
> 
> Plus they would love any reason to build an ice hockey arena up there to attract an NHL team once again.
> 
> If anywhere in the east Quebec City would be the place.



Quebec City would be cool. I would definitely drive up and partake in the festivities. 

Again, I mentioned Sugarbush. Doesn't it have the vertical?


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## steamboat1 (Sep 12, 2012)

Mt. Ellen's vert. is 2,552. I'm sure they could cut a run down to German Flats road that would add the necessary vert. for a men's downhill but it would be awfully flat on the bottom half. Plus Sugarbush doesn't have the necessary infrastructure. Could you imagine what Rt. 100 would look like if Sugarbush hosted an Olympic event. Heck Warren gets all jammed up just for their July 4th parade.


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## Geoff (Sep 12, 2012)

Killington has 3000 feet of vertical


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## jaytrem (Sep 12, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Le Massif's down hill course is 2,465 vert. The minimum requirement for an Olympic mens downhill is 2,624 vert. Considering Le Massif already added several hundred feet of vert. with the Pyramid they built on top another 160 feet is not a big deal in my eyes.
> 
> Plus they would love any reason to build an ice hockey arena up there to attract an NHL team once again.
> 
> If anywhere in the east Quebec City would be the place.



I imagine a ski jump type structure would work for the extra 160 feet, even if temporary.

As for the arena, they just broke ground on it Sept 3rd...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/09/03/quebec-hockey-arena-ground-breaking.html


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2012)

You could squeeze the vert out of Sugarbush but the lower 1/3 would not be nearly steep enough.

Sugarloaf would have to get creative to pull it off and runs the risk of getting pretty flat when squeezing out the required 200' of vert below the main lodge.
Stowe could actually pull it off pretty easily _*IF *_provisions could be made to extend a temporary trail up onto the ridge on either nose or the chin.
Outside of those resorts, you would be looking at a custom facility being built somewhere in the Whites. One potential spot would be the northeastern shoulder of Mt. Washington with access provided by Cat shuttles on the Auto Road. However, installing snowmaking to avoid a 1980 Lake Placid situation would be very expensive. Snowmaking would also be needed to "fill in" the trail to avoid having to blast a trail into the mountainside.


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## Puck it (Sep 12, 2012)

For the 1980 Winter Olympics, it was not the temp that that was the porblem but the lack of snow that year.  This was forseen and LP was the first Olympics to use man made snow. The temps leading up to the games were very favorable to make snow. They started to make snow very eraly that year and stockpile it.  The addition of snowmaking made "Iceface" now more skiable.  BTW, I was at the games since I lived up there.

When Lake Placid was awarded the 1980 Winter Games in 1974, venue adjustments were needed. For the alpine skiing events, snow making equipment was used.[SUP][7][/SUP] This was used to make 4 ft (1.2 m) of man-made snow to cover all of the trails used for the events.[SUP][7][/SUP] Six new ski lifts and electronic timing/ scoring systems were also constructed.[SUP][7][/SUP] For the Nordic skiing events (cross-country skiing, Nordic combined, ski jumping), a total of 26 event officials were sent as observers to the 1978 world championships in Lahti, Finland to understand the venue needs for the 1980 Games.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] For the 50 km race, a total of 266 acres (108 ha) was purchased and a trail system was created that involved tree-clearing.[SUP][3][/SUP] Man-made snow was also applied for the cross-country skiing trail.[SUP][3][/SUP] Races over 10 km in length were modified to meet the snow requirements as defined by the International Ski Federation.[SUP][3][/SUP] An electronic scoreboard was installed for the croos-country skiing events.[SUP][3][/SUP] This information was passed onto organizers for the 1984 Winter Olympics in Sarajevo.[SUP][3][/SUP] Two new ski jumps were constructed.[SUP][1][/SUP] The 70 m (230 ft) jump was constructed between May 1977 and December 1978.[SUP][1][/SUP] Construction for the 90 m (300 ft) jump also started in May 1977, but was not done until the February 1979 test event to construction delays caused by the bankruptcy of the steel contractor.[SUP][1][/SUP] Biathlon used trails similar to cross-country skiing though a separate finish area was used.[SUP][3][/SUP] A protective shooting area of 125 by 95 m (410 by 312 ft) was built for the competition of 90 by 50 m (300 by 160 ft) for 36 shooting stations was built.[SUP][3][/SUP] To cover 25 km (16 mi) of biathlon trails, twelve snow-making guns were used.[SUP][3][/SUP]
Speed skating had increased refrigeration access, improved locker room, improved lighting, electronic timing/ scoring systems, and a electronic scoreboard.[SUP][6][/SUP] The World Sprint Speed Skating Championships were held at the Oval in 1978 and proved beneficial on how to run the event.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] A separate facility was constructed near the Olympic Center for figure skating with renovation taking place at the Center itself between spring 1977 and November 1979.[SUP][5][/SUP] The biggest change was at the bob and luge track with the construction of a refrigeration system for the bob run following the 1978 World Championships in Lake Placid that also served as the test event for the 1980 Games.[SUP][4][/SUP] A new luge track was built between fall 1977 and February 1979.[SUP][4][/SUP] The original plan for the luge track was to include bobsleigh two-man on the track, but that was abandoned to excessive costs.[SUP][4][/SUP] It was the first luge track in North America.[SUP][4][/SUP] This was also the last Winter Olympics that would have separate bobsleigh and luge tracks.[SUP][4][/SUP]


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## ScottySkis (Sep 12, 2012)

http://www.catskill-3500-club.org/catskill-peaks/bearpen-mountain.htm some info on Bearpen.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2012)

Scotty, Bearpen maxs out at 1750 of Vert. Not gonna happen there. In fact there is no where in the Catskills that would reach 2600 feet of vert without a *very* long flat runnout. Not even Slide, Cornell, Wittenburg, or Hunter (from teh actual peak) can get there.


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## ScottySkis (Sep 12, 2012)

> Scotty, Bearpen maxs out at 1750 of Vert. Not gonna happen there. In fact there is no where in the Catskills that would reach 2600 feet of vert without a <b>very</b> long flat runnout. Not even Slide, Cornell, Wittenburg, or Hunter (from teh actual peak) can get there.




I thought it was bigger, just ashame that we could be skiing and snowboarding their this winter if they still had financial backing, why cant 10000 rich people invest into bearpen sorry for putting in this thread.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 12, 2012)

The top of Le Massif's downhill run could easily be added to.

The mound pictured is man made.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2012)

The USOC is pretty adamant about getting NYC an Olympics, and they know that the Winter Games are a little less competitive than the Summer.  One of the crazy ideas that has been tossed around is a split Olympics with NY and Montreal, but I think it's been scrapped for a Seattle/Vancouver push.


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## Puck it (Sep 12, 2012)

St. Bear said:


> The USOC is pretty adamant about getting NYC an Olympics, and they know that the Winter Games are a little less competitive than the Summer. One of the crazy ideas that has been tossed around is a split Olympics with NY and Montreal, but I think it's been scrapped for a Seattle/Vancouver push.



I heard of the NYC talk about the winter games with LP hosting the on snow events and NYC do the other evetns.  This was also talked about for Boston with the NH and VT getting the on snow events.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2012)

Puck it said:


> I heard of the NYC talk about the winter games with LP hosting the on snow events and NYC do the other evetns. This was also talked about for Boston with the NH and VT getting the on snow events.



I've heard about those proposals too, but according to Wikipedia it looks like they're concentrating on a summer Olympics for NYC.  Personally, if they're going to ram NY down our throats, I think a split host makes a lot of sense.  The full Olympics in NYC would be a nightmare.  The one that I haven't seen, and I don't understand why not because there's no way I'm the first to think about it, is a NY/Phila split.  Phila has the country's best velodrome and world class swimming facilities, NYC is NYC, and there's the whole of Jersey in the middle.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2012)

Lake Placid to Montreal = 112 mi
Lake Placid to NYC = 293 mi

The international Olympics sounds better to me.

The Boston option would be hard to pull off due to the lack of an existing 2600' vert steep ski run in either VT, NH, or ME. A new facility (see what they are building in S Korea for 2018 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungbong) would be the only option here. The nearest generally north facing slope that could support a fairly steep 2600 ft vert run is Mt Blue in Kinsman Notch (Just north of Moosilauke). Then there are problems with going above treeline (i.e. Franconia Ridge, Mt, Washington etc) if you try to go that route too.


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## loafasaur (Sep 12, 2012)

Narrow Gauge at Sugarloaf is FIS certified for all alpine events.  There was the fabled 3 days in Feb. 1971 when the Loaf hosted back-to-back downhills and a GS for both men and women in 3 days.  It was a lean snow year in Europe.  There was fantasy about hosting the Olympics up there around the time of the Bigelow development proposal.  A lot of people smoked pretty good stuff in them days.  It ain't happening.

A few months back I saw a proposal in the Boston Globe for a Boston-based Olympics with alpine events in NH and VT.  The article claimed it was much like Vancouver in terms of distance/time between venues.  Killington was touted for downhill.  I haven't skied K much but have the impression that they would have to scramble to find enough continuous vertical.  Stowe would be interesting, and no doubt controversial.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2012)

loafasaur said:


> Stowe would be interesting, and no doubt controversial.



Have the starthouse at the top of the Chin, and they can get 3,000 of vertical.


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## marcski (Sep 12, 2012)

Older audio clip:

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categori...s/quebec-citys-removable-ski-hill-mocked.html

Newer Backcountry.com article:

http://www.backcountrymagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=601&Itemid=52


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2012)

Killington Peak does not have a chance to reach 2600 with any consistant slope.

Actually, Ascutney can squeeze out 2580' of vert off of its north peak if you cross route 44 and go all the way down into the Mill Brook valley :-o.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> Killington Peak does not have a chance to reach 2600 with any consistant slope.
> 
> Actually, Ascutney can squeeze out 2580' of vert off of its north peak if you cross route 44 and go all the way down into the river valley :-o.



Mt. Ellen, by the skin of her teeth.


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## snowmonster (Sep 12, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> If it does come back to the States, it'll be out West. If I were to bet, it would be Vail.



I hear that the IOC is still pissed off about Denver giving up the Winter Olympics slot in 1976. I know that's a lifetime ago but these organizations have long memories. 



loafasaur said:


> Stowe would be interesting, and no doubt controversial.



 Just curious: why would Stowe be controversial? Deer Valley hosted the aerial events in '02. The Deer Valley of the east should be able to do the same.=)


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## jaytrem (Sep 12, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> I hear that the IOC is still pissed off about Denver giving up the Winter Olympics slot in 1976. I know that's a lifetime ago but these organizations have long memories.



Way off topic here, but I remember hearing something about no Colorado skier ever winning a gold medal in skiing.  1976 curse?  Not sure if it's still true or even was at the time I heard it.  Can anybody think of a Colorado born skier (or snowboarder) who has won a gold?


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## AdironRider (Sep 12, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> I hear that the IOC is still pissed off about Denver giving up the Winter Olympics slot in 1976. I know that's a lifetime ago but these organizations have long memories.
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious: why would Stowe be controversial? Deer Valley hosted the aerial events in '02. The Deer Valley of the east should be able to do the same.=)



Ive heard about the Denver thing, but not enough to really comment with conviction. Wouldn't suprise me though. Tough to be taken seriously when you pass on something like the Olympics. 

Given the way this thread has gone, it seems pretty clear Whiteface is the only venue in the East that could even think about hosting. Anything that requires flat runnouts or building mounds, etc is going to be a non starter. The IOC isnt going to take that seriously.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Given the way this thread has gone, it seems pretty clear Whiteface is the only venue in the East that could even think about hosting. Anything that requires flat runnouts or building mounds, etc is going to be a non starter. The IOC isnt going to take that seriously.



I think Sugarloaf is an interesting option.  It's remoteness would make it a terrible choice for the Olympics, but I think the mountain fits the requirements.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2012)

St. Bear said:


> I think Sugarloaf is an interesting option.  It's remoteness would make it a terrible choice for the Olympics, but I think the mountain fits the requirements.



As stated, it won't work there. Summit to the Main Lodge is 2400 at the most'. The last 400 of which are roughly 15% slope. Then if you go below the lodge it only gets flatter.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> The IOC isnt going to take that seriously.



well, that is until the anti is upped on the bribes......


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> well, that is until the anti is upped on the bribes......



Given their track record, I'm surprised the IOC hasn't awarded a Winter Olympics to Dubai yet.


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## EPB (Sep 12, 2012)

The latest I heard about the olymics in QC was back in the fall and I can't find the newspaper article, though I believe it was in Le Soleil around October.  Mad Pad has an article in french that could easily be translated that has some good info on the mountain: http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/quebec-et-les-jeux-olympiques/ . It looks like hes got a few potential sites in Gaspe that have been discussed in the QC press before.  In addition, I've also heard that creating a structure similar to a 120M long jump ramp on top of the existing downhill course would do the trick.... 

The only other Eastern option that I haven't heard mentioned is the possibility of using Wildcat A (or maybe B, whichever is the tallest at ~4,400 feet).  Of course, it would be a regulatory nightmare getting a lift/downhill trail built there.  But, that would open up Boston as an option for the games.  I would personally prefer this because it could provoke NH to turn rte 16 into a 4 lane highway all the way to Conway like BC did with the road to Whistler (from what I understand-I've never been).  As it stands, Boston 153 miles from Wildcat and more like 135 from Conway.


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## ScottySkis (Sep 12, 2012)

eastern powder baby said:


> The latest I heard about the olymics in QC was back in the fall and I can't find the newspaper article, though I believe it was in Le Soleil around October.  Mad Pad has an article in french that could easily be translated that has some good info on the mountain:
> 
> The only other Eastern option that I haven't heard mentioned is the possibility of using Wildcat A (or maybe B, whichever is the tallest at ~4,400 feet).  Of course, it would be a regulatory nightmare getting a lift/downhill trail built there.  But, that would open up Boston as an option for the games.  I would personally prefer this because it could provoke NH to turn rte 16 into a 4 lane highway all the way to Conway like BC did with the road to Whistler (from what I understand-I've never been).  As it stands, Boston 153 miles from Wildcat and more like 135 from Conway.





Well we could always put Hunter and Platty together lol.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 12, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> *The minimum requirement for an Olympic mens downhill is 2,624 vert*.



Interesting timing of this, I was searching for this answer week ago when I learned they gave South Korea the winter Olympics in 2018, and my reaction was, WTH?!?!  Looking into it, they seem to be very generous with the vert there for 2018, because that place looks much like an eastern mountain IMO.



St. Bear said:


> I've heard about those proposals too, but according to Wikipedia *it looks like they're concentrating on a summer Olympics for NYC*.



Not gonna happen.  NYC is in bad shape financially, and the Olympics are a bad investment in which the host city always loses money (assuming honest accountants are involved).



St. Bear said:


> *Given their track record, I'm surprised the IOC hasn't awarded a Winter Olympics to Dubai yet*.



Well, FIFA gave Qatar the World Cup, so God only knows what scandals will come from that.  Lots of sex and money had to be involved.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 13, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Interesting timing of this, I was searching for this answer week ago when I learned they gave South Korea the winter Olympics in 2018, and my reaction was, WTH?!?!  Looking into it, they seem to be very generous with the vert there for 2018, because that place looks much like an eastern mountain IMO.



South Korea is building a custom facility specifically for the Downhill and Super G events named "Jungbong". 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungbong

The course will easily have enough vert (2,929').

My guess is it will be somewhere on this mountain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gariwangsan as it is the only one in the area that reachs 1433m.


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## St. Bear (Sep 13, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Not gonna happen. NYC is in bad shape financially, and the Olympics are a bad investment in which the host city always loses money (assuming honest accountants are involved).



You act like the people in charge actually care about the host city.

Generally I agree with you, however the US is the one country that could host an Olympics as is, with relatively little to no cost.  Now, would that prevent the host city from blowing taxpayer money on new venues anyway?  Probably not, but the difference is that the US has the infrastructure to do it on the cheap, if we were so inclined.


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## loafasaur (Sep 13, 2012)

Just curious: why would Stowe be controversial? Deer Valley hosted the aerial events in '02. The Deer Valley of the east should be able to do the same.=)[/QUOTE]

The downhill course would have to go higher on Mansfield.  Do you think that development wouldn't cause a stir?


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## St. Bear (Sep 13, 2012)

loafasaur said:


> Just curious: why would Stowe be controversial? Deer Valley hosted the aerial events in '02. The Deer Valley of the east should be able to do the same.=)



The downhill course would have to go higher on Mansfield. Do you think that development wouldn't cause a stir?[/QUOTE]

Or, and stay with me here, they could dig a few hundred feet just below the resort base area.  Have the finish line be in a underground tunnel.


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## x10003q (Sep 13, 2012)

Here is a video made for the 2012 NYC Summer Olympic Bid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MquWONpfAI

The NYC bid is long dead and will never happen. The potential Jets Stadium over the West Side train yards was the cornerstone of the plan. That area has been repurposed.

An Eastern US winter Olympics will never happen. While Lake Placid has the venues, it does not have the infrastucture. It barely pulled off the 1980 games.  Will all the tax payers who want to give money to the Olympic crooks please stand up? Maybe Canada could pull it off in QC or run the Games out of Montreal with some events in LP. I doubt US and Canada could figure it out.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 13, 2012)

What is LP?


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## Smellytele (Sep 13, 2012)

jimmywilson69 said:


> What is LP?



Really?


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeah I totally forgot the context of the thread.  I wasn't thinking about Lake Placid because I doubt they would double back to that venue because of logistics


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## x10003q (Sep 13, 2012)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Yeah I totally forgot the context of the thread.  I wasn't thinking about Lake Placid because I doubt they would double back to that venue because of logistics



The least they could do if they ran the Olympics out of Montreal would be DH/SG on Whiteface, the bobsled/luge/skel in LP and maybe the ski jumping. I do not know if there is another venue that could support the ski jumping near Montreal. They could do all the other ski/snowboard events in the ski areas in Quebec and the hockey and ice skating in and around Montreal. The cross country could be done in and around Montreal also. Lake Placid hosts plenty of national and international events,  just usually one at a time.


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## Smellytele (Sep 13, 2012)

x10003q said:


> The least they could do if they ran the Olympics out of Montreal would be DH/SG on Whiteface, the bobsled/luge/skel in LP and maybe the ski jumping. I do not know if there is another venue that could support the ski jumping near Montreal. They could do all the other ski/snowboard events in the ski areas in Quebec and the hockey and ice skating in and around Montreal. The cross country could be done in and around Montreal also. Lake Placid hosts plenty of national and international events,  just usually one at a time.



there is a ski Jump facility near Mount St Anne. At least there was when I was a teenager many moons ago.


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## 4RunnerSkier (Sep 13, 2012)

What about Portland, ME / Sunday River? Portland's got a decent bed base along with a few good venues for the indoor competitions. The Civic Center would probably need a renovation / expansion but it's not too far fetched.  It's only about 75 miles by car to Sunday River and there's still the old train tracks (used to be a ski train) and a small airport. There's also a world class nordic center in Rumford and Mt. Abram could be used for some events as well. Sunday River doesn't have the vertical for downhill but there's some pretty big mountains just a little ways north in the Mahoosucs...


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## AdironRider (Sep 13, 2012)

4RunnerSkier said:


> What about Portland, ME / Sunday River? Portland's got a decent bed base along with a few good venues for the indoor competitions. The Civic Center would probably need a renovation / expansion but it's not too far fetched.  It's only about 75 miles by car to Sunday River and there's still the old train tracks (used to be a ski train) and a small airport. There's also a world class nordic center in Rumford and Mt. Abram could be used for some events as well. Sunday River doesn't have the vertical for downhill but there's some pretty big mountains just a little ways north in the Mahoosucs...



This is a terrible idea. 

The Olympics are the pinnacle (or at least thats their goal) of the sport, and they are going to run events in a C level city with zero infastructure and low level intermediate terrain? 

The Olympics lose money for every host city. Maine is already one of the top two highest taxed states in the Union. They simply couldnt afford to make a presentation for it, let alone host. 

Just because it would be in the Northeast does not mean it would be good.


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## ScottySkis (Sep 13, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> This is a terrible idea.
> 
> The Olympics are the pinnacle (or at least thats their goal) of the sport, and they are going to run events in a C level city with zero infastructure and low level intermediate terrain?
> 
> ...


The food in northeast is great, if I move to Utah I will miss our food.


Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## Geoff (Sep 14, 2012)

Scotty said:


> The food in northeast is great, if I move to Utah I will miss our food.



Food in New York City is great.  You really can't say the same about the rest of the Northeast.   You'll find that the produce in Utah is way better than in the Northeast.   It's a day truck run from the fields in California.   Other than seafood, all the raw ingredient sources are better.


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## marcski (Sep 14, 2012)

jimmywilson69 said:


> What is LP?





Smellytele said:


> Really?



Liquified Petroleum or Propane, no?  I use it in my bbq.  :-D 

Umm....Jimmy....what's this thread's title again??


----------



## MadPatSki (Sep 14, 2012)

Whiteface is the only clear choice for a Eastern Men's Downhill.

Sugarloaf could make it, however it would be a pretty subpar DH course.

Those would be the only two existing ski areas it could happen without major changes.

There was a huge debate for the Quebec City Olympic bid for the 2002 games and again recently. The main problem with a Quebec bid would be the lack of vertical for Le Massif. In 2002, they proposed building a ramp at the top and building a temporary finish area on the St. Lawrence.

In January 2011, a bunch of different scenarios were mentioned for a possible venue of a Quebec City Games Men's DH. Everything for Le Massif alternative route to building a course in the Chic Chocs. Many of these comments were made by politician that have a poor knowledge of skiing and/or geography. A downhill in Lake Placid was mentioned as well as in Calgary.

I wrote a blog piece in French at that time where I explore the different scenario mentioned.
[h=2]Québec et les Jeux Olympiques[/h]http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/quebec-et-les-jeux-olympiques/


Here is the translation via Google. Translation isn't always accurate from the original French version.

http://translate.google.com/transla...eotf=1&u=http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/

Oh yeah, as someone already mentioned, Quebec City has already started building a new arena.

Winter games in Montreal??? It has been mentioned, but it was by a tiny minority. The overwhelming consensus is that if there are an Eastern Canadian Olympic bid, it will be for games to be hosted by Quebec City.


----------



## MadPatSki (Sep 14, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Killington has 3000 feet of vertical



Cannon also if you take the original Taft Trail and then use the old CCC Tuckerbrook trail.  Oh yeah, like K, it isn't all downhill.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2012)

marcski said:


> Older audio clip:
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categori...s/quebec-citys-removable-ski-hill-mocked.html
> 
> ...



Quebec City would be the only option if the Olympics were to come back to the east coast. Adding 200 something feet to Massif would be a feet onto what is already a VERY small peak would be a feat in itself. Tack on the degree of difficulty and it's almost impossible. Their best chance would be to add 40-50 feet onto Liqouri. There would almost certainly be some backlash from backcountry enthusiasts who would be very pissed at the possibility of having their stashes logged and dynamited. I have skied a number of backcountry spots in the McGerrigle's that would most certainly meet the requirements but they would have to build a TON of infrastructure unless everyone was cool with taking barges between locations.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Sep 14, 2012)

marcski said:


> Liquified Petroleum or Propane, no?  I use it in my bbq.  :-D
> 
> Umm....Jimmy....what's this thread's title again??



You're a little late to the party with that sarcasm.  I figured out right after Smelly's post...


----------



## St. Bear (Sep 14, 2012)

MadPatSki said:


> Cannon also if you take the original Taft Trail and then use the old CCC Tuckerbrook trail.  Oh yeah, like K, it isn't all downhill.



They can have it at Cannon, and run the last 600' of vertical down 93.


----------



## MadPatSki (Sep 14, 2012)

MadMadWorld said:


> Their best chance would be to add 40-50 feet onto Liqouri.



Vertical isn't the only requirement. Mont Ligouri wouldn't have the slope steepness. I mentioned in my blog piece linked above.



MadMadWorld said:


> I have skied a number of backcountry spots in the McGerrigle's that would most certainly meet the requirements but they would have to build a TON of infrastructure unless everyone was cool with taking barges between locations.



Le Mt. Nicol Albert was mentioned, I explore it as well as Mt. Albert (as they were some confusion in the Quebec media reports at the time). It wasn't clear cut, unless you blast the place and build a ton of infrastructure inside a protected area.


----------



## MadPatSki (Sep 14, 2012)

St. Bear said:


> They can have it at Cannon, and run the last 600' of vertical down 93.



The last time I checked, there was a speed limit on I-93. :O


----------



## St. Bear (Sep 14, 2012)

MadPatSki said:


> The last time I checked, there was a speed limit on I-93. :O



Ok, fine.  They'll just have to hold it on Lafayette.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2012)

These numbers seem to be the best indicator of whether an existing resort has a chance to host an Olympic based on its "True-Up" vertical. From this, it seems pretty obvious that Whiteface would be the only logical choice for existing resorts (though I was pleasantly surprised by Sugarbush). All the other mountains on this list ski from the peak of their mountain so  Theoretically this only takes into consideration skiable trails so Stowe could easily make the requirement if they built a true trail from the Chin but that won't happen

http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-east-coast-snowboarding.php


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2012)

I believe Ligouri does but only in a few select places. You would have to bring some experts in to cut it and bring a few sticks of dynamite but I truly believe the blog is wrong and it is possible. 

Both places would be the logical destination based on proximity. You are right though it would be pretty much impossible to find a mountain with enough vert that is outside a protected refuge or a mountain inside the protected refuge that wouldn't need to be logged and blasted. In a pipedream my destination would be the Mines Madeleine area with Comte, Petit St. Anne, and Jacques-Cartier in such close proximity but that will NEVER happen which is okay with me!


----------



## MadPatSki (Sep 14, 2012)

MadMadWorld said:


> I believe Ligouri does but only in a few select places. You would have to bring some experts in to cut it and bring a few sticks of dynamite but I truly believe the blog is wrong and it is possible.



The blog is written by skiing geographer. The Mont Ligouri options was also shotdown by the FIS for the topographical challenges slope wise for that option (believe it is mentioned in one of the media links up in the piece (maybe not active anymore).



MadMadWorld said:


> In a pipedream my destination would be the Mines Madeleine area with Comte, Petit St. Anne, and Jacques-Cartier in such close proximity but that will NEVER happen which is okay with me!



Les Mines 1 and 2 wouldn't have the vertical. Maybe le Petit Mt Ste-Anne if you continue down the logging road? Mt. Albert is the only close one in term of slope and vert, however it would take a fortune to make it skiable for a downhill race. And yes, it will never happen, which is definitely okay with me.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2012)

MadPatSki said:


> The blog is written by skiing geographer. The Mont Ligouri options was also shotdown by the FIS for the topographical challenges slope wise for that option (believe it is mentioned in one of the media links up in the piece (maybe not active anymore).
> 
> 
> 
> Les Mines 1 and 2 wouldn't have the vertical. Maybe le Petit Mt Ste-Anne if you continue down the logging road? Mt. Albert is the only close one in term of slope and vert, however it would take a fortune to make it skiable for a downhill race. And yes, it will never happen, which is definitely okay with me.



I will take your word for it. But where would they have to start the run from on Albert to get enough consistent vertical? On the more open area of Patrouillieurs? I was referring to Mines as more of a central jump off point for those other 3 mountains. Your right, all the stuff below Mines would be way too short. I think Petit could work with the logging road. If they ever added mountaineering to the Olympics, Logan would be prime real estate. Damn I just high jacked this thread with my own day dreaming ski porn!


----------



## St. Bear (Sep 14, 2012)

For most of the afternoon, I thought Pat was talking to himself.


----------



## MadPatSki (Sep 14, 2012)

MadMadWorld said:


> I will take your word for it. But where would they have to start the run from on Albert to get enough consistent vertical? On the more open area of Patrouillieurs?



As mentioned in French...the google translation isn't clear. See map. Not open terrain, but everything is possible for building, right?
http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/quebec-et-les-jeux-olympiques/

Red line : Mur des patrouilleurs : not enough vert
Blue line: Enough, but...

Yeah, they managed to built a downhill in Val d'Isère on Face de Bellevarde for the 1992 Men DH. It wouldn't be easy. It would be crazy...but it's never going to happen. That terrible is permanent off-limits for skiing, although I know someone that ski it and paid the price (i.e. fine).

http://madpatski.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/albert2022.jpg





MadMadWorld said:


> I was referring to Mines as more of a central jump off point for those other 3 mountains. Your right, all the stuff below Mines would be way too short. I think Petit could work with the logging road. If they ever added mountaineering to the Olympics, Logan would be prime real estate. Damn I just high jacked this thread with my own day dreaming ski porn!



I didn't look at it when I wrote the blog piece, mind you I was just going over places mentioned. If you want to talk about dreaming ski porn, there would be amount vertical in Quebec's Torngats Mountain on the border with Labrador.



			
				St. Bear said:
			
		

> For most of the afternoon, I thought Pat was talking to himself.



LOL.

It would look like that...between MadMadWorld, Ski Mad World (the blog) and MadPatSki...it gets confusing.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2012)

MadPatSki said:


> As mentioned in French...the google translation isn't clear. See map. Not open terrain, but everything is possible for building, right?
> http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/quebec-et-les-jeux-olympiques/
> 
> Red line : Mur des patrouilleurs : not enough vert
> ...



I didn't even check out your original links because the translation link was broken. I was going off of my own memory of Albert. What is that area in blue called? I can only point out Grand Cuvee and Mur Des Patrouilleurs. Any idea what the vert is for Mur des patrouilleurs? That would be a perfect slope if it was more sustained. 

I have had many dreams of skiing the Torngats. Have you made that trek? It's on my skiing bucket list. There is some very nasty terrain up there. And they say there is no big mountain skiing out here!

I think you have done some great research after reading that page. A couple of points:

For the love of god, QC should not do a joint Olympic with Calgary unless they plan to go further west then Nakiska. That place is kind of a joke. I realize Lake Louise is a little further but it would be such a better venue for DH. Hell, if they really want to keep it closer to Calgary then they should clean up Fortress and do it there. 

The Olympics should be in one country. Sharing an Olympic with Lake Placid would be cool but I don't think the IOC would go for it.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Sep 14, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> South Korea is building a custom facility specifically for the Downhill and Super G events named "Jungbong".
> 
> The course will easily have enough vert (2,929').



When I looked at the map, it seems to me that they'd be cutting it close or being generous with the runout, but maybe I'm wrong.




loafasaur said:


> The downhill course would have to go higher on Mansfield.*  Do you think that development wouldn't cause a stir?*



You kidding?  The Eco-extremists dont let you cut a blade of grass without 18 legal challenges.



AdironRider said:


> The Olympics lose money for every host city. Maine is already one of the top two highest taxed states in the Union. *They simply couldnt afford to make a presentation for it, let alone host. *



I loffed :-D



MadMadWorld said:


> *
> The Olympics should be in one country. *Sharing an Olympic with Lake Placid would be cool but I don't think the IOC would go for it.



Agreed 100%.  I dont even like "sharing" between cities, but sharing between nations would be weak.


----------



## Blizzard of Wahhs (Sep 15, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> Are there more resorts other than Whiteface in the East that have the necessary runs to host olympic ski events and the beds to accommodate everyone?
> 
> Just curious. It would be really cool to get the Olympics back to the USA, and it would be awesome to get them going in the East.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that's a good one!


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 15, 2012)

Blizzard of Wahhs said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that's a good one!





Dude WTF is wrong with you?


----------



## Blizzard of Wahhs (Sep 15, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Dude WTF is wrong with you?



This is a friendly forum bruh, no need to be rude

ButtHurt: An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the "aggressor."
Adam got butthurt when Mike stole his bitch.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Sep 15, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Food in New York City is great.  You really can't say the same about the rest of the Northeast.   You'll find that the produce in Utah is way better than in the Northeast.   It's a day truck run from the fields in California.   Other than seafood, all the raw ingredient sources are better.



Are you talking Monsanto quality produce or local organic produce?  Monsanto produce taste the same on the west coast as it does in the midwest as it does in the east....5 days after it was picked.  Unless you are a food snob you really wouldn't notice a difference.


----------



## AdironRider (Sep 15, 2012)

Scotty said:


> The food in northeast is great, if I move to Utah I will miss our food.
> 
> 
> Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2



Truth. I have set up a budget for eating out whenever I'm home.


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 16, 2012)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Are you talking Monsanto quality produce or local organic produce?  Monsanto produce taste the same on the west coast as it does in the midwest as it does in the east....5 days after it was picked.  Unless you are a food snob you really wouldn't notice a difference.



Food in the London Olympic venues was by and large quite bad. Also, other than at the white water park, they only served Heineken.


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 16, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> Food in the London Olympic venues was by and large quite bad. Also, other than at the white water park, they only served Heineken.





I hear all food in London is not very good. Was the Heineken better tasting their then in US, I heard before it taste better in Europe because they have more alcohol in the bottle thanks to US law that limits the amount and gives it It's funny taste.


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 16, 2012)

Scotty said:


> I hear all food in London is not very good. Was the Heineken better tasting their then in US, I heard before it taste better in Europe because they have more alcohol in the bottle thanks to US law that limits the amount and gives it It's funny taste.



The Heineken seemed like nasty sugar water with beer flavor. 

London has come a very long way in terms of food. High end french food has always been available there, and we've all heard about the curry. However, run of the mill food available in any given restaurant or pub (and the fabled gastropub) is much improved over where it was not too long ago.


----------



## Geoff (Sep 16, 2012)

Scotty said:


> I hear all food in London is not very good. Was the Heineken better tasting their then in US, I heard before it taste better in Europe because they have more alcohol in the bottle thanks to US law that limits the amount and gives it It's funny taste.



Food in the UK is extremely expensive by US standards.   It's a world class city with world class cuisine but you pay dearly for it.   A pound is $1.62.   It basically spends like a US dollar.   A modest dinner you'd expect to pay $100 in a major US city will run £100.    

Heineken in Amsterdam is drinkable where it's on-tap and fresh.   I'd never consider drinking it in the UK but you also see most people in a British pub drinking Budweiser and Stella Artois so there's no accounting for taste.

I usually eat Indian food when I'm in London.  Cheap & reliable.


----------



## Geoff (Sep 16, 2012)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Are you talking Monsanto quality produce or local organic produce?  Monsanto produce taste the same on the west coast as it does in the midwest as it does in the east....5 days after it was picked.  Unless you are a food snob you really wouldn't notice a difference.



In Utah, you see good quality organic produce trucked in from California.   Produce is way better in the west than in the Northeast.   Produce picked that day does the 10 hour overnight truck ride and appears in stores the next day.


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 16, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Food in the UK is extremely expensive by US standards.   It's a world class city with world class cuisine but you pay dearly for it.   A pound is $1.62.   It basically spends like a US dollar.   A modest dinner you'd expect to pay $100 in a major US city will run £100.



My experience has always been the exact opposite. When I was a student in London in 2006, I was always amazed at how cheaply we could eat (and especially drink). We could get a burger and a beer  for 4 and a half pounds (about 8 bucks at the time), which was impossible in New York. When I was starving and waiting for the last train out of Paddington last month, I had a burrito for 3 and a half pounds. 1.56*3.5 < the cost at Chipotle in Penn station, (though Back Bay station has a good cheap burrito cart).  Eating in a Jamie Oliver restaurant was much cheaper than eating in any place owned by KO or BL. 

Now when we visit with a higher budget, our food/drink bills always seem a bit lower than what we would have expected. Tastes and budgets vary, so it won't be a direct comparison but my impressions of London are 1) drinking is much cheaper than the US (especially beer). 2) Food can be quite a bit cheaper on the low end, and 3) a nice looking restaurant in a nice neighborhood (say, near Angel) will be a bit cheaper than similar in New York, Boston, or Providence. (Though NYC and Providence are likely to be tastier when your choice is a random draw)



> I usually eat Indian food when I'm in London.  Cheap & reliable.


  Agreed.


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 16, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> My experience has always been the exact opposite. When I was a student in London in 2006, I was always amazed at how cheaply we could eat (and especially drink). We could get a burger and a beer  for 4 and a half pounds (about 8 bucks at the time), which was impossible in New York. When I was starving and waiting for the last train out of Paddington last month, I had a burrito for 3 and a half pounds. 1.56*3.5 < the cost at Chipotle in Penn station, (though Back Bay station has a good cheap burrito cart).  Eating in a Jamie Oliver restaurant was much cheaper than eating in any place owned by KO or BL.
> 
> Now when we visit with a higher budget, our food/drink bills always seem a bit lower than what we would have expected. Tastes and budgets vary, so it won't be a direct comparison but my impressions of London are 1) drinking is much cheaper than the US (especially beer). 2) Food can be quite a bit cheaper on the low end, and 3) a nice looking restaurant in a nice neighborhood (say, near Angel) will be a bit cheaper than similar in New York, Boston, or Providence. (Though NYC and Providence are likely to be tastier when your choice is a random draw)
> 
> Agreed.


In NYC a non cheap restaurant but not to expensive but really good with soda and fries will around14.50. I need to stop eating these burgers so I can afford skiing this winter.




Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## Blizzard of Wahhs (Sep 16, 2012)

Wtf does food in NYC have to do with the Olympics. Jeez what a derail.


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 16, 2012)

Blizzard of Wahhs said:


> Wtf does food in NYC have to do with the Olympics. Jeez what a derail.





His quote includes NYC prices compared to London prices.


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 17, 2012)

Blizzard of Wahhs said:


> Wtf does food in NYC have to do with the Olympics. Jeez what a derail.



Staying on topic is like never venturing off the groomers.


----------



## Blizzard of Wahhs (Sep 17, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> Staying on topic is like never venturing off the groomers.



Getting off topic is like stopping on a groomer, blocking other schussers, and looking at the view whilst probing your navel. Sure it's fun on a sophmoric level, but are you really helping anyone out? Let's get serious people.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Sep 17, 2012)

Waaa waa waa......Appropriate forum handle


----------



## Geoff (Sep 17, 2012)

The most recent Big Mac Index from The Economist aligns with MadPadraic's claim about the UK being cheaper than NYC.   My personal experience is that most things are much more expensive there but I'm not going to argue with The Economist on their home turf.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 17, 2012)

FYI another option: Only 162 miles to Mt Katahdin vs 250 to Whiteface (from Quebec City). :idea:

Edit: Although currently, the drive time is the same


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 17, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> FYI another option: Only 162 miles to Mt Katahdin vs 250 to Whiteface (from Quebec City). :idea:
> 
> Edit: Although currently, the drive time is the same




I like the creativity and Katahdin would definitely have the sustained vert and degree of difficulty. I just don't see a Canada/USA Olympics getting approved.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 17, 2012)

I took a closer look at Katahdon in Google Earth and found that there really aren't very many slopes on the mountain that cover 2600+ vert without some serious flats. Katahdin seems to be one of those mtns where it is low angle or insane steep. 
Pretty much the only place you can find a slope that would work for an Olympic downhill is on the south facing wall. The best spot would be on the Western shoulder where the Appalachian Trail ascends the mtn. You can actually squeeze out 3000 feet there.


----------



## Puck it (Sep 17, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> I took a closer look at Katahdon in Google Earth and found that there really aren't very many slopes on the mountain that cover 2600+ vert without some serious flats. Katahdin seems to be one of those mtns where it is low angle or insane steep.
> Pretty much the only place you can find a slope that would work for an Olympic downhill is on the south facing wall. The best spot would be on the Western shoulder where the Appalachian Trail ascends the mtn. You can actually squeeze out 3000 feet there.




Doesn't Katahdin lie in Baxter Park?  Which does not allow motorized vehicles in winter.  That would be an obstacle.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 17, 2012)

Puck it said:


> Doesn't Katahdin lie in Baxter Park?  Which does not allow motorized vehicles in winter.  That would be an obstacle.



Indeed, probably a DH course off the summit of Mt Washington would be more likely to be approved.


----------



## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> Indeed, probably a DH course off the summit of Mt Washington would be more likely to be approved.



Not when the winter Olympics are being held in February. 

Now the inferno course would be so badass, in late March when it actually becomes skiable.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 17, 2012)

Not to derail this thread anymore then it already has BUT....

Does anyone think the IOC would move the Winter Olympics to the summer to allow countries in the southern hemisphere like Argentina, NZ, Australia, and Chile to get a shot? I think it would be a cool idea but I think television ratings would go wayyyyy down.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 17, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Not when the winter Olympics are being held in February.
> 
> Now the inferno course would be so badass, in late March when it actually becomes skiable.



I disagree.
Having Tucks as part of a downhill course uses up too much vert too quickly. IMHO the best place to have a course would be here...






This location almost parallels the Auto Road and is fairly wind sheltered. It covers roughly 3000 ft of vert and has some nice variation in the terrain (i.e. headwalls and such to launch off of).


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 17, 2012)

looks like starting from Nelson's Crag


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 17, 2012)

Correct although the actual top of Nelson's Crag is a little to the left in the picture.


----------



## Angus (Sep 17, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> I disagree.
> Having Tucks as part of a downhill course uses up too much vert too quickly. IMHO the best place to have a course would be here...
> 
> 
> This location almost parallels the Auto Road and is fairly wind sheltered. It covers roughly 3000 ft of vert and has some nice variation in the terrain (i.e. headwalls and such to launch off of).



Problem solved!! Let The Games Begin!!!


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 17, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> I disagree.
> Having Tucks as part of a downhill course uses up too much vert too quickly. IMHO the best place to have a course would be here...
> 
> 
> ...



You kill it so much even Dan Egan couldn't improve on this post.


----------



## Nick (Sep 18, 2012)

Winning 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## skiersleft (Sep 18, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> I disagree.
> Having Tucks as part of a downhill course uses up too much vert too quickly. IMHO the best place to have a course would be here...
> 
> 
> ...




Forget the Olympics. We should have a ski resort there. Seriously, why don't we?


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Sep 18, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> Forget the Olympics. We should have a ski resort there. Seriously, why don't we?



Tree Huggers


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 18, 2012)

This course would be 3% steeper overall than Whiteface, and with about 340' more of vert to boot. 
Couple this with the fact that Slalom and Giant Slalom can be held directly across the road at Wildcat and you got a real contender.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 18, 2012)

Here is the view from Wildcat.


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## skiersleft (Sep 18, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> This course would be 3% steeper overall than Whiteface, and with about 340' more of vert to boot.
> Couple this with the fact that Slalom and Giant Slalom can be held directly across the road at Wildcat and you got a real contender.



So, I assume this would be the Boston Winter Olympics, right? Most events held in Boston, with skiing in Wildcat and Mount Washington about 3:20 mins away, right? Not bad. 

Frankly, sounds easier than Quebec. At least Mount Washington easily has the required vertical. And you can use wildcat for the other events.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 18, 2012)

Boston or Quebec City. 
Although it is around a 5 hour drive from QC (it is still over an hour less than drive to the Gaspe). In the QC senario important people/athletes could probably commute by helicopter which would drop the commute time down to about 1 hr.


----------



## Nick (Sep 18, 2012)

But can I traverse to Tucks?


----------



## skiersleft (Sep 18, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> Boston or Quebec City.
> Although it is around a 5 hour drive from QC (it is still over an hour less than drive to the Gaspe). In the QC senario important people/athletes could probably commute by helicopter which would drop the commute time down to about 1 hr.



If we're cutting a trail down Mount Washington, I want the olympics to be in the US of A. So, my vote is for Boston over QC. And it's closer.


----------



## Puck it (Sep 18, 2012)

I think Dan Egan would slay that course. Just sayin'.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Sep 18, 2012)

Puck it said:


> I think Dan Egan would slay that course. Just sayin'.



I was thinking he could be hired to escavate the trail. No dynamite needed. Just strap some diamond edged skis on his feet and let him lose on the hill before there is snow on it. Oula! A perfect downhill course left behind.


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 18, 2012)

Coworkers today were talking about a potential HSR link between Boston and Montreal with a stop in Montpelier.  Use Stowe and Jay and it will work nicely. Also, VT is generally more open about infrastructure upgrades and trying to help out their population than NH.

The garden, agganis, and matthews could all be used for the city events (are the winter olympics as crazy about building new facilities as the summer games)?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Sep 19, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> Coworkers today were talking about a potential HSR link between Boston and Montreal with a stop in Montpelier.



Cant see that happening for political, financial, and practical reasons.

*Politics* -  Would set up a divisive political battle between two left-wing elements, the Pro-train (and Union) folk + the Pro-environmental folk (of which there are MANY in MA, NH, and VT).

*Finance *- We dont have the money on a Federal level or the State level for this (Vermont sure as heck doesnt).

*Practical* - Honestly?  It's a pretty terrible idea that would be economically unsustainable for numerous reasons, not the least of which is, dramatically insufficient ridership.

It's just not going to happen.


----------



## MadPadraic (Sep 19, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Cant see that happening for political, financial, and practical reasons.
> 
> *Politics* -  Would set up a divisive political battle between two left-wing elements, the Pro-train (and Union) folk + the Pro-environmental folk (of which there are MANY in MA, NH, and VT).
> 
> ...



I doubt it will happen either. In fact NH killed the earlier proposal.  Since we were dreaming about the olympics, it is fair enough to dream about the big infrastructure upgrades that tend to come with them (e.g. SLC's light rail, BC's Highway 99,  London's gondola, etc).

In my experience, Pro-environmental folk tend to view trains in a favorable light, and tracks already exist (but would obviously need upgrading). I disagree on the ability for the federal government to pay for it, but we are getting into politics, so I won't comment further.

As far as practical, I don't know for sure that demand would be high enough, but rail competes very well with air travel in the DC to Boston corridor despite the presence of very good air links between the 4 (6 if you count PVD and BAL) major cities, which isn't present here.

I also, I want to commute to a ski condo by train.


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## AdironRider (Sep 20, 2012)

Who honestly needs to stop in Montpelier?


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## MadPadraic (Sep 20, 2012)

33 minutes by car from stowe according to the google, but Burlington would be a better stop (there should be only 1 in northern vt).


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 20, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Who honestly needs to stop in Montpelier?



Politicians...


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 20, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> As far as practical, *I don't know for sure that demand would be high enough*, but* rail competes very well with air travel in the DC to Boston corridor* despite the presence of very good air links between the 4 (6 if you count PVD and BAL) major cities, which isn't present here.



There would be virtually no sustainable demand for Boston to Montreal, certainly not anything that could justify the considerable expense of ongoing operations.  

As for the "success" of the "DC to Boston corridor" via rail?  It's a complete myth.  It's one of those things that gets repeated so often that people (and I mean probably nearly everyone) believe it's true.  But if you actually look into the financials I think you'd be absolutely shocked (and possibly aghast).  

It loses tons of $$$$ and only survives via government assistance, the taxpayer pumps $$$ into it to keep it alive.  For whatever reason, this isnt publicized (at all), so people generally dont realize how much $$$$ AMTRAK etc loses.



AdironRider said:


> Who honestly needs to stop in Montpelier?



It's funny cause' it's true! (I loffed).


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## x10003q (Sep 20, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> There would be virtually no sustainable demand for Boston to Montreal, certainly not anything that could justify the considerable expense of ongoing operations.
> 
> As for the "success" of the "DC to Boston corridor" via rail?  It's a complete myth.  It's one of those things that gets repeated so often that people (and I mean probably nearly everyone) believe it's true.  But if you actually look into the financials I think you'd be absolutely shocked (and possibly aghast).
> 
> ...



Amtrak served around 30.2 million passengers last year and claimed that it recovered 79% of its operating cost from fares. The Amtrak subsidies are easy to find:$563million for operating and $922million for capital costs this year.
(The 32 F-35 fighters scheduled to be purchased this year are coming in around $208million for each F-35 or $304million each including R&D. The final purchase total is supposed to be 2443 F-35 fighters.)

The US Highway system and the air traffic system also receive huge amounts of govt $$$$$$$$$$.  Last time I checked zero money was recovered from the US Interstate highway system from its users. 

I cannot tell if the North East Corridor is profitable or not but around 750,000 people use it every day. It is an important part of the east coast transportation system. 

As for high speed rail between Boston and Montreal - not  happening. There will never be enough demand or money to build it.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am/Layout&cid=1246041980246


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 20, 2012)

x10003q said:


> *I cannot tell if the North East Corridor is profitable or not* but around 750,000 people use it every day. It is an important part of the east coast transportation system.



AMTRAK itself loses millions.  The NEC, IINM does breakeven or make money, but even that's a bit skewed by the fact that it's the lighter traveled (mostly business) ACELA is profitable while the heavily traveled (every day people) Metroliner loses money.  

The reason is that they charge a ton for those ACELA tickets, and they're not really worth it given you're paying twice as much and only saving about an _I Love Lucy_ episode in time, but when you're not the one paying for it?  Why not, is the business traveler logic.  But as businesses get squeezed I imagine that mindset is diminishing.  At any rate, there is no way to economically state that it has been a success.   The company is what.... 40 something years old?   To the best of my knowledge, it has never had even a single profitable year.

And FWIW, I loved taking ACELA myself from NY to DC or Boston on business.  Does that mean I think it's an intelligent expenditure?  No.


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