# Road/Dirt Mixed Riding



## riverc0il (May 12, 2012)

Who rides both road and dirt on their road bike? Looking for your experiences and your thoughts.

During my rides, I've noticed a lot of dirt roads shooting off the main drags. On more than one occasion, I've mapped out a ride over a hill only to find the pavement ends where the climbing begins. Being able to ride dirt roads would seriously expand my routes and the amount of climbing loops I can do.

So what am I looking at for tire requirements? I am running 700x25 right now and am concerned that isn't going to cut it. I could get some 700x28 but anything larger isn't going to work with my brakes/frame.

At the very least, I'm interested in packed dirt town and national forest roads. Though, the thought of just being able to point my bike any where is enticing. If I see a field and want to cut through it, that would be really cool and really open up some impulsive options. I feel trapped in my road routes right now (which route that I've done before will I do today?). 

So obviously I've also thought about a cross bike. Cross has crossed my mind before. I don't think I could justify another bike purchase just for doing some races during two months (I ain't riding in winter/cold). But maybe I could justify it if I could also do some fun stuff like fire roads or mellow/wide open trail riding. 

So what size tires would be best just for town/forest packed dirt? And where is the line between changing tires on a road bike and needing a cross bike with fatter/knobbier 3x tires?

Not interested in MTB at all, so no need to recommend that. I'm peddling straight from my home and the nearest dirt roads are at 3-6 miles away or more. Thinking long 35+ rides with mixed surfaces. MTB ain't gonna get it done.


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## marcski (May 12, 2012)

I have definitely thought about a cross-bike, Riv.  There are a few places that have some relatively mellow single track that is just off of a few different road rides that I do.  There is this one awesome ride I do up around and over the Croton Reservoir that passes right by a cool, relatively mellow, mountain bike place that has a good hard off-road climb.   The road ride itself is about 45-50 miles with 3500' in vert. Adding the off-road would add another 500-750 vert in what...3-5 miles. So enticing but I can't justify a cross purchase either....especially since I am getting the fork for the mt. bike fork Pushed and having new wheels built.


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## mattm59 (May 12, 2012)

*bombproof road bike ( I'm not listening )*

is my mellower tired mountain bike. After racing in my youth, and doing a road trip to Florida from Ct via VT., then commuting for years on my 27 X 1" tires (yeah that dates me I know), I finally had enough of rim trueing, popped spokes and flat tires. I use my first mountain bike, Trek 3900, as my all around bike, and since replacing forks on all 4 bikes a month ago, it seems this is the only bike I've been using. I have a 15 mile road loop (around the block, nice after work ride when I'm motivated), as well as a lot of fire-road and singletrack near my house. I can use this bike to explore some trail, then hop back on a road if I'm...umm...lost :flame:, or running low on time or energy. Been doing a lot of exploration on this bike, and though not as tough as my more specific MTB, I am enjoying a lot of 4-5 hour clips on the weekends lately riding to the trails and "wildlife management" areas in a 5 mile radius from my house, exploring the trails and fire roads, riding home, firing up the pressure washer and breaking out the spray lube, and putting a bike away that needs no tuning. I realize you said not to mention MTB, but my wife says i don't listen  :roll::roll: and she's never wrong.


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## riverc0il (May 13, 2012)

I never said not to mention MTB but rather don't recommend it. It sounds like you are just sharing your Dirt/Road mixed experience and that is cool. If you were recommending MTB, I would have had to point out that MTB just isn't going to ride as well as a road bike over really long rides with more road than dirt. MTB isn't going to be able to hit average speeds of 17-18 MPH either (at least, not under my legs).


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## riverc0il (May 13, 2012)

Went for it today. 14.5 mile ride mixed road/dirt. Just made sure to pump the tires up a little more than usual. It was a fun ride and as intended, the 1100' elevation gain kicked my ass with five pitches in the 10-16% grade area. I put together a fairly fun route and pedaled 5 miles of road that I've never pedaled before. Looks like only 3 miles was dirt. Lots of pretty stretches along the dirt roads as they are usually up at elevation.

The packed dirt was no problem at all. Can't even believe I had a mental barrier there. Sections with significant amount of loose rock really sucked. My enjoyment was definitely inversely proportional to the amount of rock on the road.

Given my experience, I am comfortable with my current tire set for the job. I could see having a 700x28 so I could reduce PSI. The rough sections were really jarring with my tire pressure higher than its already normally high state (220 lbs, I pump them up!). But certainly no need for a cross bike unless I wanted to look into serious off roading where cars can't go. Which means I can go back to thinking about a carbon U-Di2 road upgrade.


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## mattm59 (May 13, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> . MTB isn't going to be able to hit average speeds of 17-18 MPH


 ONCE!!!
Doing my road loop one day, I came out onto the main road and was moseying along when I hear "on your left" and 4 road guys cruise by, spandex, carbon ,Team Yadayadayada emblazoned across their backs....not sure what came over me, but I started pedaling my a$$ off, figured I'd get in the draft and make some time....It was hilarious, I got to say "on your left" myself, and nudged myself into the middle of the group, 2" tires, leather walking shoes, shorts, cotton tee...:blink: Guy in front glanced back and his look was priceless....hung with these guys 4.5 miles, then thankfully, I had a right turn to head home...where I proceeded to suck all the oxygen out of my neighborhood :lol:

Just mapped this route...looks like I average 13mph. I had my gps last time and peak speed was 35.4. Mostly up hill heading out, rolly hills, then a slight downgrade coming back, until the last climb to my house. I don't try for speed on the flats( I'd go with a road bike if I were), mainly love the climbs.

Good on ya' trying something new! That's what makes life worth living.


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## Nick (May 14, 2012)

hybrid? I used to ride a lot of road on my mountain bike but that was before I had a drivers license and I had to ride my bike to the mountain to mountain bike


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## prophet0426 (May 14, 2012)

River, have you considered a pair of cross tires on your current street rims?  I've actually been doing this the last few months and it's worked out well.  I went on Nashbar and bought a cheap set to make sure that the tire would clear the rim with now issue.  I ended up with a pair of 700x32 cross tires that have worked well. Here is the link to the ones that I bought http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_174913_-1___202354 the only real issue is clearance between the standard road brakes and the tire itself, my bike does not have cyclelcross brake lugs so I have to run standard road brakes. Things get a little packed up when riding in the rain/mud but that is few and far between.


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## riverc0il (May 14, 2012)

Like I wrote, I am pleased with the 700x25 performance, might buy a 700x28, but larger than that won't fit the frame. If I wanted to go 700x32 or 700x35, I'd need a new bike. Based on my ride the other day, that seems like over kill unless I want to go way off road. I don't know if the brakes would work for that type of treatment though. And of course, due to being a Clyde, running high PSI on smaller tires off road would get old quickly. Food for thought.


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## mlctvt (May 17, 2012)

Riv- If 700X28 will fit your road bike I'd try that first.
 My wife and I like to do combined paved road and dirt/forest road rides but our new and old road bikes would only take up to 700x25 tires. Plus we weren't keen on trashing our nice road bikes on the dirt so we ended up buying cross bikes, Specialized Tricross sports. I installed fenders so we also use these bikes in sloppy conditions on the road. 
On the dirt roads we wanted to ride 700x25 wouldn't cut it, 700x28 would probably be the minimum size I'd be comforatble with but 700x30 or 700X32 are even better. I've seen plenty of people out on the dirt with 700x25 but the bike can be very tricky to keep upright in deep sand or rocky areas. 
 I'd try it and see how it goes if it doesn't work you're only out the cost of 2 tires. If it works, you might want to think about getting a second set of inexpensive rims that you could mount semi-knobby 700x28 tires on for your dirt road use. 

If our old roads bikes would have taken 700x28 tires I think we'd be riding those today instead of buying the new bikes. But we love the cross bikes for exactly what you pointed out. We can go most places, they're basically do everything bikes. Besides the fenders I installed rear racks so we can carry extra clothes, lunch  etc. and they are jsut fantastic on dirt roads. On hardpack we can ride 16-17 mph or more. We can even do some single track if it's not too rough. Whenever we go to Vermont they're our bikes of choice because of all the dirt roads up there.


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## riverc0il (May 24, 2012)

I might see if 700x28 will fit. It would be nice to be able to lower the PSI without fear of pinch flatting. I was probably too aggressive on the PSI with my 700x25s and I can keep knocking it down lower until I blow out. But of course, 700x28 I could go lower still and have better stability. I know I won't be able to get bigger than 700x28 on my current bike. Second set of rims isn't happening. At 220+ lbs, I need some well built wheels and I ain't paying for a second set, much as that would be easier than changing tires between semi-knobby and road.

Really giving some strong thought to a cross bike. Was originally planning on saving up for a nice road bike. The horizon on electronic shifting trickling down to lower end groupos seems to be happening fast! But I could always do a CX bike now and delay replacing my road bike longer. Ah, decisions...


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## Highway Star (May 24, 2012)

Just googling 700c x 28 tire comes up with many options that sound like they would be perfect for your use.  I would still go with something mostly slick, not knobbies, with reinforced sidewalls, etc.  Make sure your wheels tight and in good shape.  I would not lower the pressure as it would be way too easy to flat and wreck a rim.


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## riverc0il (May 30, 2012)

It has been quite fun getting off the pavement! I'm set for my current equipment. My 700x25 get the job done just fine. I don't need fatter tires for this sort of thing and a CX bike would be overkill despite that I would use it for a lot of other things. Gotta keep my eyes on the prize, one new bike goal at a time. 

Today was an epic. Wanted some hill climbs that would push my current fitness level and picked a great route. Four major climbs and a half dozen smaller hills for 2300' climbing over 29 miles. But about 6 of those miles was in the flat time trial category so it was a good ride for me this early in the season.

Decided to tack on a return route on a road I had never ridden before. That added some unexpected vertical and dumped me out on a dirt road. I had expected it. Last year, I would have just turned around. I gleefully dove right in. Nice being able to go into the unknown and not need to worry about the roads cause it is all good!

Learned a very valuable lesson about pre-down shifting early on dirt. Was going into a "down then up" valley and I was so concerned about speed and stability on the down that I forgot to prep the gears for the sudden up. Ended up in a ditch on the side of the road after failing to flip the gears nor clip out in time. Fun! Sadly, it happened a second time. My second and third falls due to a clipping failure, good times.

Any ways, this is fun stuff. This really opens up the amount of roads I can ride around here along with some nice climbs.


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## marcski (May 30, 2012)

Steve, how much dirtier is the bike and the drivetrain after combining off-road?   That is, my hesitation on using my road bike for some cross-terrain riding and why I think eventually, I'd like to add a cross bike to the garage.  I do admit that I'm a bit anal about keeping the roadbike's drivetrain and frame quite clean.


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## riverc0il (May 30, 2012)

marcski said:


> Steve, how much dirtier is the bike and the drivetrain after combining off-road?   That is, my hesitation on using my road bike for some cross-terrain riding and why I think eventually, I'd like to add a cross bike to the garage.  I do admit that I'm a bit anal about keeping the roadbike's drivetrain and frame quite clean.


I'm your polar opposite on drivetrain cleaning so you are probably asking the wrong person. 

I imagine if you are that crazy about a clean drive train, you can do a cleaning when you get home. I didn't notice anything. The dirt is packed so it really isn't kicking up much.


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## mlctvt (Jun 1, 2012)

marcski said:


> Steve, how much dirtier is the bike and the drivetrain after combining off-road?   That is, my hesitation on using my road bike for some cross-terrain riding and why I think eventually, I'd like to add a cross bike to the garage.  I do admit that I'm a bit anal about keeping the roadbike's drivetrain and frame quite clean.



I found that my road bike would need a total cleaning after only a mile of riding on even hard-packed dirt roads.  I do like a perfectly clean bike though. This was another reason why we bought cross bikes. With fenders on the cross bikes they stay much cleaner than without them and I don't have to clean them too often.


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## riverc0il (Jun 1, 2012)

OCD much? LOL.

I've never even noticed. But if I clean my chain more than once during the summer, it would be amazing so we're coming from two different places on the clean bike issue. :lol:


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## mlctvt (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't consider myseldf OCD because I prefer to keep my stuff maintained. 

I'm an engineer by training so I like a well oiled machine. I don't understand people who don't maintain equipment properly so yes we are probably polar opposites.  I can't imagine riding 4000 miles and only oiling the chain once, it'd probably fail before then anyway. I lube my chain every 200 miles or so , I can usually get over 4000-6000 miles from an Ultegra chain before it measures beyond the 1/16" wear when it will destroy the crankset and cassette too if not replaced.

 I keep my bikes a long time though, my 1994 Trek 5200 has well over 52,000 miles on it and it still performs perfectly. It only sees occasional service as a backup now. 

Does your lack of maintenance carry over to ski equipment too? 
I'm curious how often do you wax or tune your skis? 
I have to admit that I'm nowhere near as fastidious about waxing skis as I am about my bike maintenance.


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## marcski (Jun 1, 2012)

I also like to keep the roadbike pretty clean and perfect.  I figure there if there is only about 17 lbs or so of carbon, metals and rubber between me and pavement at 40+ mph...I'm going to be pretty certain, it's operating at full capacity.  

I think, a dedicated cross-bike is on my agenda at some point.


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## riverc0il (Jun 1, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> Does your lack of maintenance carry over to ski equipment too?
> I'm curious how often do you wax or tune your skis?
> I have to admit that I'm nowhere near as fastidious about waxing skis as I am about my bike maintenance.


I tune my skis every summer. Usually. If I didn't use a pair much, maybe it doesn't get tuned at all. The way I use my skis (mostly unroomed, powder, and rocks), I don't really need them to be tuned. I wreck pairs of skis pretty quickly but it isn't from lack of tuning.

I see bike maintenance as much more valuable than ski tuning. Though I'd tune my skis more frequently if I skied groomers most of the time and didn't abuse them. You just can't compare a road bike drive train to skiing over rocks and bare ground.

I jest a little bit on my lack of maintenance. My bike has about 20k on it and has probably had a half dozen good tune ups. I'll probably treat a better bike a little more carefully. But chains, cogs, and rings are easily replaceable. Maybe I could save a few hundred every five years but not having to do replacements due to better care but such is life. I can't be bothered with cleaning out my drive train every few hundred miles.


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## mattchuck2 (Jun 12, 2012)

It sounds like you need a "Gravel Grinder" - type bike. Something with a nice road geometry, but clearance for wider tires. There's plenty of bikes like that out there. I was thinking along the same lines (not that I need another bike), and I was thinking of getting something with disc brakes and 135mm rear spacing so I could use my 29er wheels . . . Maybe something like the On One Pompetamine. Since you are a bikesdirect guy, though, I'm sure something like this $500 job would be fine (I'd be okay starting with the Sora components because if you're going to be riding gravel/dirt/cyclocross, you're probably going to be wearing stuff out pretty quick and you can replace as needed):


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## riverc0il (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion MC2. Though, check out my last post. I've decided 700x25 is sufficient for my needs. I couldn't go Sora regardless and I'll probably not be returning to BikesDirect for a variety of reasons (great for a first bike though). If I end up going the cross route, I'd go for either the On One Dirty Disco (hot!) or the Setta CX1 (wicked sick deal). But just for dirt/pavement mixed riding, a regular road bike is actually perfect. 700x28 tires might be better but they are certainly not needed for my needs.

Basically, I'm good and enjoying the dirt roads as is and keeping my money in the bank for a carbon DI2 road upgrade.


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## mattchuck2 (Jun 12, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> I'm good and enjoying the dirt roads as is and keeping my money in the bank for a carbon DI2 road upgrade.



Pshhh . . . Di2 is for a-holes. Just make your own electric shifters:

http://urbanvelo.org/diy-shimano-electronic-shifter/

:-D


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## riverc0il (Jun 12, 2012)

Then I be an a-hole.


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