# Let's focus on Suburus for a second.



## BeanoNYC (Jan 31, 2008)

OK, I see a lot of Suburus around Ski Country.  My ski buddy has an outback and loves it.  My truck is, yet again, in the shop and I'm thinking about cutting my losses.  I've put 75K of both highway and heavy city (read: Belt Parkway, everyday) on it since 2004 and am likely to do the same on my next vehicle.  I'm also foreseeing 0% financing within the next month during Feb Sales.  My suburu questions (In no particular order):

1) Reliable or not?
2) Service costs for maintenance.  
3) How good are they in foul weather, particularly snow.
4) Symmetrical AWD vs AWD vs 4WD
5) Outback vs. Forrester 
6) Good on gas?

Thanks in advance.  DMC, I may recall that you drive a suburu, no?


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## ckofer (Jan 31, 2008)

Though I don't drive one, my ski buddy (who sports a duck-tape SkiCheapOrDie.com bumper sticker on his ski box) has been driving these for years. It doesn't seem like it needs to be fixed often. As far as snow goes, we've driven through some nasty weather without worry and maintained good speed. I think the fact that they are not top-heavy helps.


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## dmc (Jan 31, 2008)

I dig em..  
Small car - awd... fits a ton of stuff...  Reliable..

Put lots of mile one them


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## Marc (Jan 31, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> OK, I see a lot of Suburus around Ski Country.  My ski buddy has an outback and loves it.  My truck is, yet again, in the shop and I'm thinking about cutting my losses.  I've put 75K of both highway and heavy city (read: Belt Parkway, everyday) on it since 2004 and am likely to do the same on my next vehicle.  I'm also foreseeing 0% financing within the next month during Feb Sales.  My suburu questions (In no particular order):
> 
> 1) Reliable or not?
> 2) Service costs for maintenance.
> ...



Yo Beano.  I've been in a '99 Outback since July.  Here's my take on your q's:

1) With 128k on my wagon, no major repairs yet, although there are some well known problems with my generation of legacy/outbacks.  The new ones get generally good reliability marks.  Particularly robust engines.

2) Average, parts are getting cheaper, as they have become very popular, esp. this part of the country.  Far cheaper than my S4, that's for sure.

3) So far, my Subie with all seasons has proven as capable or more so than my S4 with winter tires.  I attribute this to having the same weight as the Audi, but narrower tires and better ground clearance.  In general, just about the best vehicle with such a low center of mass in the snow.

4) You wouldn't notice a difference.  AWD systems are old enough that most of them now, despite different mechanicals, are begining to perform comparably if not the same, and are transparent for the most part.  Only with the exception of not having 4WD low capability.  I'd love to be able to lock all the differentials but that would add a lot of cost to an AWD car.  But this is not one to worry about, IMHO.

5) I'd go Outback.  Actually has more interior cargo volume, slightly bigger, lower ride height, lower CM.  Slightly less ground clearance but I wouldn't notice much difference.  Plus I think the Outback looks better.

6) Results may vary.  The new ratings are the one thing that turns me off on them, however- with 128k miles on my Outback, I just recently got 27 mpg on a tank of gas driving up to Washington, that was about 80% highway, 20% "city" driving.

Hope that helps.  If you have any more specific questions for me let me know.

Also, my Outback is a 5 speed, if that makes any difference.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 31, 2008)

As of the past three weeks, I'm in a 2004 Subaru Legacy Wagon.  It has 58K miles on it, but is a fleet car from work used in a lot of stop and go scenarios by traveling salesmen.  Because of that, it does feel kind of 'rickety', much like you'd expect out of a rental car with similar mileage.  

It definitely does not fail to impress in the snow.  I've had situations where I've had to drive through 10 inches of snow and it pulls right through with no problems.  Gas mileage seems to be decent, mid 20's overall.

If I do have one complaint, it's that it has absolutely zero passing power on the highways.  Then again, it feels particularly less powerful to me because my previous ride had a pretty potent V6 in it.

The one person you should definitely consult is Campgottagopee.  He's a Sales Manager at a Subaru dealership and certainly will be able to let you know if you're getting a good deal or not when you go to buy one.


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## Marc (Jan 31, 2008)

DHS.... time for new shocks maybe?


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## dmc (Jan 31, 2008)

I went with the Forrester for carrying drumsets around...  Otherwise I probably woudl've gone for the Outback..  My bass drum fits in an Outback by i can't see over it...


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## deadheadskier (Jan 31, 2008)

Marc said:


> DHS.... time for new shocks maybe?




certainly feels that way.  it's former owner's territory was NYC, so it's probably seen it's fair share of pot holes.  Lke I said, hard for me to be a good judge on the car as it has been treated like a rental.  Can't complain though, at least I'm putting 50K miles a year on someone elses car and dime now than my own.


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## Marc (Jan 31, 2008)

Probably loose/worn tie rod ends too.  Early for that stuff no doubt, but not unheard of under conditions like you'd see in NYC.  Going to school in Worcester was hell on my cars' suspensions.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 31, 2008)

Marc said:


> not unheard of under conditions like you'd see in NYC.


 
You can't even begin to imagine the abuse my cars take in NYC


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## wa-loaf (Jan 31, 2008)

We have an 05 Outback - my impressions:

1) Reliable or not? 
yes so far, but we only have 37,000k on it.

2) Service costs for maintenance.
I'd say average, our 30k maint cost about $450.

3) How good are they in foul weather, particularly snow.
Excellent, but ditch the stock all season they really suck (even for all seasson).

4) Symmetrical AWD vs AWD vs 4WD
We have the base model so whatever version of AWD that is. No traction control (you can get it), but we drive standards anyway and like to have more control (at least the impression of it for better or worse). I can still make it spin out if I want.

5) Outback vs. Forrester 
Outback a little more upscale inside and has a nicer ride (impression for test drives). The Outback has more horizontal (floor space) cargo space, the Forrester has more vertical.


6) Good on gas?
OK, we get 23-24 on mixed driving with more city than highway (with snows and a cargo box). Pure Highway is closer to 28-29.


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## MichaelJ (Jan 31, 2008)

LOVE my '03 Outback. With Blizzak tires on it, I never fear the bad weather (but still, drive slow and remember that the tires will get me going, not necessarily stop me), though my all-seasons never let me down before I had the snows.

Car's been very reliable, only 2 "breakdowns" in 5 years and 101,000 miles: the fuel pump went around 60K and on New Years the serpentine belt tensioner seized. I can fit a ton of stuff in it, and with the split back seat skis easily ride inside.

The lower profiler than the Forester means easier access to the bike racks I have up top but still plenty of ground clearance for those nasty woods roads. It's also longer than the Forester. The new Outbacks are super-sweet, too. You might be able to find a standard tranny but most are automatics (I'm told the AWD system works better in an automatic). The newer ones have traction and stability control, also recommended.

I highly recommend making sure you have the cold-weather package: seat heaters, side mirror defrosters, and defroster strips for the windshield wipers, which make a huge difference.

Good cup holders and weather band on the radio, too. 

Oh, maintenance is about average. The big services (60, 100) ran me $650 but I have an H6 so they cost a bit more. I got 26/23 mpg when I got the car, but when I put the beefier tires on it, that gave me 25/22. All depends on what you want on there. Now that I have snows, I don't need the beefier tires in summer.


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## danny p (Jan 31, 2008)

me and my girlfriend have been test driving outbacks and foresters for the last couple weeks.  we are both pretty set on the outback, foresters don't seem as responsive and definately aren't as comfortable, imo.  My question is, how does the 2.5i 4 cylinder hold up?  I know they put out 175 hp, but a non-turbo 4 cylinder engine seems small for that big of a car (seems fast during the test drive, but concerned how fast it will stay for the lifetime of the car)?  Most 4 cylinders get doggy as they get older?  I'm just wondering if its worth spending a whole lot more money to get a 2.5 turbo?  Seems like that might stand a better chance of staying peppy for the lifetime of the car?  Any input?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 31, 2008)

danny p said:


> me and my girlfriend have been test driving outbacks and foresters for the last couple weeks.  we are both pretty set on the outback, foresters don't seem as responsive and definately aren't as comfortable, imo.  My question is, how does the 2.5i 4 cylinder hold up?  I know they put out 175 hp, but a non-turbo 4 cylinder engine seems small for that big of a car (seems fast during the test drive, but concerned how fast it will stay for the lifetime of the car)?  Most 4 cylinders get doggy as they get older?  I'm just wondering if its worth spending a whole lot more money to get a 2.5 turbo?  Seems like that might stand a better chance of staying peppy for the lifetime of the car?  Any input?




I am driving a Legacy with the standard 4 cyl.  The car is a company car that as seen some abuse, but even at that, I could probably out run the thing.  ZERO pick up


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## wa-loaf (Jan 31, 2008)

danny p said:


> me and my girlfriend have been test driving outbacks and foresters for the last couple weeks.  we are both pretty set on the outback, foresters don't seem as responsive and definately aren't as comfortable, imo.  My question is, how does the 2.5i 4 cylinder hold up?  I know they put out 175 hp, but a non-turbo 4 cylinder engine seems small for that big of a car (seems fast during the test drive, but concerned how fast it will stay for the lifetime of the car)?  Most 4 cylinders get doggy as they get older?  I'm just wondering if its worth spending a whole lot more money to get a 2.5 turbo?  Seems like that might stand a better chance of staying peppy for the lifetime of the car?  Any input?



Ours isn't that old at 37k, but it has plenty of power for what I need and a little downshifiting will give you the power you need to pass. Plus you don't have to pay for premium fuel like you do with a turbo. That said you won't win any races and I notice a slow down when the car is fully loaded (dog, 2 kids, back and storage box full).


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## RISkier (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't own one but was car shopping and looked very closely at both the Forester and Outback.  The Forester is in the last year of the current model run and will have a major redesign in 09.  I drive in a lot of traffic and did not want to deal with a manual tranny.  And I didn't want a turbo or 6 cyl. engine both of which get a little poorer mileage and require premium (you can run the 6 on regular with a little loss of power) fuel.  Otherwise I liked just about everthing about the Outback except I felt the performance of the regular 4 cylinder engine with auto tranny was just too sluggish.  And that was the deal killer for me.  Everytime I test drove one (I even rented one for a week last year) I just felt the base engine with automatic was just not strong enough.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 31, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> OK, I see a lot of Suburus around Ski Country.  My ski buddy has an outback and loves it.  My truck is, yet again, in the shop and I'm thinking about cutting my losses.  I've put 75K of both highway and heavy city (read: Belt Parkway, everyday) on it since 2004 and am likely to do the same on my next vehicle.  I'm also foreseeing 0% financing within the next month during Feb Sales.  My suburu questions (In no particular order):
> 
> 1) Reliable or not?
> 2) Service costs for maintenance.
> ...



Q1 Yes, very much so. Don't take my word for it look on line anywhere.
Q2 Maintance cost are very reasonable. Some of the reccomnded services will be a bit higher due to having 2 differentials.
Q3 Wicked good. Depending on where you normally travel you may want dedicated snows, but trie OEM stuff first to see what you think.
Q4 Symmetrical is just that. Due to the H4 engine allthe "shafts" in a Subie are of eqaul length. (symmetrical) Which does a few things. Allows for a better balanced car resulting in excellent handling. Also virtually eliminates tourque steer.
Q5 Personal choice. I like the Outback better. More ground clearance, not by much (8.4 vs. 8.1), but you never know. Also quiter ride due to higher insulation qualities
Q6 Yep, as good as you'll get for anything AWD

Good luck and have fun


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## wa-loaf (Jan 31, 2008)

RISkier said:


> Otherwise I liked just about everthing about the Outback except I felt the performance of the regular 4 cylinder engine with auto tranny was just too sluggish.  And that was the deal killer for me.  Everytime I test drove one (I even rented one for a week last year) I just felt the base engine with automatic was just not strong enough.



Yup, having a 5speed makes a big difference in performance.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 31, 2008)

RISkier said:


> I don't own one but was car shopping and looked very closely at both the Forester and Outback.  The Forester is in the last year of the current model run and will have a major redesign in 09.  I drive in a lot of traffic and did not want to deal with a manual tranny.  And I didn't want a turbo or 6 cyl. engine both of which get a little poorer mileage and require premium (you can run the 6 on regular with a little loss of power) fuel.  Otherwise I liked just about everthing about the Outback except I felt the performance of the regular 4 cylinder engine with auto tranny was just too sluggish.  And that was the deal killer for me.  Everytime I test drove one (I even rented one for a week last year) I just felt the base engine with automatic was just not strong enough.



True dat--unless you go w/ a turbo you wont win any races in a Subie. But most people know that when buying them. They get them mainly because they're one of the safest cars on the road.


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## 180 (Jan 31, 2008)

*outback 4 sale*

I have a 99 outback for sale.  135k miles.  email if interested. alan@saracomputer.com, location Putnam County, NY


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## danny p (Jan 31, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Q5 Personal choice. I like the Outback better. *More ground clearance, not by much (8.4 vs. 8.1), but you never know.* Also quiter ride due to higher insulation qualities



that's interesting, both salespeople i have asked have told me the forester had more ground clearance by a little.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 31, 2008)

danny p said:


> that's interesting, both salespeople i have asked have told me the forester had more ground clearance by a little.



If that's the case they're not trained properly----look it up in fact it's in the brochures ifin you have those layin around.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 31, 2008)

One thing I'll mention is the 09 Forester is due to be released in March----way different car than what Forester drivers have now. may be worth the wait for some..............


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 31, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> One thing I'll mention is the 09 Forester is due to be released in March----way different car than what Forester drivers have now. may be worth the wait for some..............


 
I noticed that.  What are the main differences?  May be a good time to jump on Feb sales, though.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 31, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> I noticed that.  What are the main differences?  May be a good time to jump on Feb sales, though.



Biggest differences are bigger, quieter, nicer interior and VDC standard. I haven't seen one yet but will this weekend.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 31, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> I noticed that.  What are the main differences?  May be a good time to jump on Feb sales, though.



Funny I just got an email from Subaru about it this morning. http://www.subaru.com/sub/misc/2009/forester/index.html?cid=tr_2009_Forester_owner


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## tree_skier (Jan 31, 2008)

The outback and legecy are on the same frame and the forrester/impressa are on the same also. so the outback gives longer and wider wheelbase.  The engine/transmissions are the same unless you go to the 6 cyl outback and then the milage drops.  So the basic differences are the outback is bigger but the forrester is higher, thus you can see over the base drum and trim levels


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## ctenidae (Jan 31, 2008)

Subaru- 3rd most popular topic on AlpineZone.

(Hunter and Helmets being 1 and 2)


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## ski_resort_observer (Jan 31, 2008)

I drive a 2000 Outback and it works well. They do go thru brakes pretty fast although that might be just me in that I drive up and down the Sugarbush Access Rd at least 6 times a week. Never noticed until I bought one that everyother car around seems to be a Subie Outback. Alot easier to park than my Silverado.


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## danny p (Jan 31, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I drive a 2000 Outback and it works well. They do go thru brakes pretty fast although that might be just me in that I drive up and down the Sugarbush Access Rd at least 6 times a week. Never noticed until I bought one that everyother car around seems to be a Subie Outback. Alot easier to park than my Silverado.



sro, which engine/transmission do you have?  if it is a 4 cylinder, is it still peppy/powerful enough to drive up hills, etc.?  I'm really not lookin to race an outback if I buy one, but want power when I need it.  thanks for any input.


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## danny p (Jan 31, 2008)

tree_skier said:


> The outback and legecy are on the same frame and the forrester/impressa are on the same also. so the outback gives longer and wider wheelbase.  The engine/transmissions are the same unless you go to the 6 cyl outback and then the milage drops.  So the basic differences are the outback is bigger but the *forrester is higher*, thus you can see over the base drum and trim levels



ok, so are you saying the forester has more ground clearance?


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## campgottagopee (Jan 31, 2008)

Here you go for ground clearance

http://autos.msn.com/research/compa...0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&tb=0&dt=0&v=t105351&v=t105204


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## wa-loaf (Jan 31, 2008)

danny p said:


> ok, so are you saying the forester has more ground clearance?



Outback has more ground clearance, but you sit up higher (or at least it feels like it) in the Forrester because it has more upright SUV like seating while the outback is more car like.


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## danny p (Jan 31, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Here you go for ground clearance
> 
> http://autos.msn.com/research/compa...0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&tb=0&dt=0&v=t105351&v=t105204





			
				wa-loaf said:
			
		

> Outback has more ground clearance, but you sit up higher (or at least it feels like it) in the Forrester because it has more upright SUV like seating while the outback is more car like.



thank you both, got it now.


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## MichaelJ (Jan 31, 2008)

As to 4cyl vs. 4cyl turbo ... a friend of mine has last year's Outback with the 4cyl with turbo. 5-speed. Has the SI control for throttle sensitivity. He pinned me to my seat getting on the highway, then said that if he'd changed the throttle setting from sport to sport sharp my teeth would have been in the back seat.


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## RISkier (Jan 31, 2008)

danny p said:


> sro, which engine/transmission do you have?  if it is a 4 cylinder, is it still peppy/powerful enough to drive up hills, etc.?  I'm really not lookin to race an outback if I buy one, but want power when I need it.  thanks for any input.



I'm responding out of turn but earlier I mentioned that the standard 4 with automatic felt fairly sluggish to me.  We were skiing in UT when we rented an Outback (standard 4 with automatic).  Didn't really have trouble going up mountain roads and it was fine when cruising on the highway.  It's not so underpowered that you'll have trouble making it up hills or anything like that.  But my impression was that if you're trying to accelerate quickly to merge or pass it took a while.  I also test drove Outbacks on two occassions this fall and had the same impression both times.  If you look at something like consumer reports you'll find their test numbers in terms of acceleration are slower than vehicles like a 4 cylinder Rav4 or Honda CR-V -- and these are not vehicles that are going to put you back in your seat.  I think the 5-speed manual tranny will give much better responsiveness.  If the standard outback drive train had 20+ lbs more torque and a 5-speed automatic I'm almost sure I would've bought it.  Because I spend a lot of time in heavy traffic I didn't want to deal with the 5-speed.  For me, my perception of the lack of responsive acceleration when driving in heavy traffic was the only thing that kept me out of an Outback.  Lots of folks are very happy with the performance of the basic Outback, so maybe it's just me.  I'd say go give em a good test drive.


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## mlctvt (Jan 31, 2008)

We've got two Subarus. We're both sports car nuts so we have a 2005 WRX wagon and a 2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon. Of course both are turbos with manual transmission. With snow tires these are unstoppable in snow. We regularly go where SUVs get stuck.  Last year after a 16-18" storm, my wifes WRX was the only car in our condo complex that could make it out of the lot. Yes she was basically plowing snow but she was able to go several hundred yards and get to the road no problem. A Mercedes 300E 4 matic and several vans and suvs just sat there spinning their wheels and watched in awe we drove out of the lot. This probably had more to do with the crappy all season tires most of them had on their cars and not the cars themselves. I don't think ground clearance is an issue in new england unless you do a lot of driving on back country roads that don't get plowed. As a mater of fact I'll be lowering my Legacy soon with a stiffer suspension, springs and shocks so it will handle better. Subarus are extremely reliable and inexpensive compared to Audis, BMWs etc. So far neither car has need any repairs at all.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 31, 2008)

Wow...lots of positive opinions.  Thanks.  Spoke to my mechanic today about my truck.  I seems that a cylinder has seized and the head gasket blew.  The outlook is poor.  He's talking with Geico as I have 100K mile mechanical breakdown insurance with them but he said we're looking at a real expensive job.  I'm thinking I'll get the work done, drive a bit on it to get the wrench marks off and some dirt back on the engine and get rid of the thing.  ...obviously I won't be selling it on here.


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## ski_resort_observer (Jan 31, 2008)

Mine is a 4cyl automatic, plenty of power for the hill although I do shift down manually if it's steep as the auto downshift is not very smooth and when I have to pass a slowpoke on Rt 100 plenty of power when the passing gear kicks in.


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## Marc (Jan 31, 2008)

They call em a "slushbox" for a reason.


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## danny p (Feb 1, 2008)

thanks for all the input guys.  my gf is buying hers in the next week or so, so we have been test driving outbacks with the sport shift auto, pretty nice, decent power (drove another one last night).  When I buy mine it will be 5 speed, but since that won't be for 6-12 months, gonna wait on the test drive.  I have been very impressed by the outback ever since I started looking at them.  I never had any intention of ever buying a subaru until I went on the lot and started looking at/driving them.  They definately seem like the most practical car for snow sport enthusiasts like us.


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## MichaelJ (Feb 1, 2008)

danny p said:


> When I buy mine it will be 5 speed, but since that won't be for 6-12 months



Gonna take that long for it to get here?


No, seriously, finding a 5-speed on the lot can be extremely difficult and ordering can take a while, so start your search sooner than you might think. When my friend bought his he was told it was one of the last half-dozen of them in all of the northeast.


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## danny p (Feb 1, 2008)

MichaelJ said:


> Gonna take that long for it to get here?
> 
> 
> No, seriously, finding a 5-speed on the lot can be extremely difficult and ordering can take a while, so start your search sooner than you might think. When my friend bought his he was told it was one of the last half-dozen of them in all of the northeast.



I know, I have already been looking/asking around.  Local dealer I spoke with said they had a 5spd outback last week on the lot for two days and sold.  He said the last 5spd before that was 3 months ago (these are pre-owned I am referring to).  I am already saving extra in anticipation that I will have to order a new one, when I would rather find a demo or slightly used one.  No way am I going for auto, made that mistake last car and hate driving it.


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## danny p (Feb 1, 2008)

just saw on subaru.com that you can't get a 5 spd and moonroof unless you spend the extra 6k on the turbo model.  lame!!  two things I went without on my present car, will not buy another car without both.


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## urban07sti (Feb 1, 2008)

I'm a Subaru owner as well, and love them.  I've owned a few other AWD cars in the past, but this was my first Subaru.  The others were turbo 4 cylinders as well.  My STI is awesome in the snow and a blast to drive.  It's pretty cool that I can take out mustangs, C5 vettes, among other performance cars (especially in the twisties), yet still fire up to the mountain.  Not sure if you were interested in the model I have though, the STI has some getting used to it with normal around town driving, out on a raceroad or open road, plus kills it in the snow.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 1, 2008)

Campgottagopee

How is the new outback sport?  The re-design looks a bit smaller than the previous model.  I'm assuming you've test drove one?


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## wa-loaf (Feb 1, 2008)

danny p said:


> just saw on subaru.com that you can't get a 5 spd and moonroof unless you spend the extra 6k on the turbo model.  lame!!  two things I went without on my present car, will not buy another car without both.



Maybe they've changed it since the 05 version, but you used be able to get a limited package with the moonroof without the turbo. So if you want to go used I'd keep an eye out for one coming off of a lease or something. RE: 5spd availability. We didn't have much trouble finding one a couple years ago. We got ours at Anchor Subaru in N Smithfield RI. Nice people there too, moved too far away from them and I'm not nearly as impressed with my new local dealer.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 1, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> Campgottagopee
> 
> How is the new outback sport?  The re-design looks a bit smaller than the previous model.  I'm assuming you've test drove one?



The entire Impreza line-up has been a HUGE hit this year. The car is "sneaky" bigger than previous years (someone can actually sit in the backseat), but yet still has a very compact feel and drive to it. The "Outback Sport" is nothing other than a "trim" level. IMO it's not worth the extra $1000.00 over the Impreza w/ premium package for what you get. 1k just sounds like a lot to me for heated seats and 17" alloys---but that's what makes the world go 'round. Imp w/ premium is the buy.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 1, 2008)

danny p said:


> just saw on subaru.com that you can't get a 5 spd and moonroof unless you spend the extra 6k on the turbo model.  lame!!  two things I went without on my present car, will not buy another car without both.



That's true now. If you can find a 06 or older, you're in. Sport shift not enough for you???


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## danny p (Feb 1, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> That's true now. If you can find a 06 or older, you're in. Sport shift not enough for you???




gimme a clutch!!! :razz:


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## campgottagopee (Feb 1, 2008)

danny p said:


> gimme a clutch!!! :razz:



I figured----I'm old, so the sportshift works fine for me. Prob is we just didn't sell that many LTD Ouback sticks so finding a used one will be REAL tough. Givien enough time you'll come up with something.


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## danny p (Feb 1, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I figured----I'm old, so the sportshift works fine for me. Prob is we just didn't sell that many LTD Ouback sticks so finding a used one will be REAL tough. Givien enough time you'll come up with something.



yeah, i'm probably gonna have to save some extra $$$ and get the turbo model.  if i'm spending the money, i really don't want to settle for a car that doesn't have 5spd/moonroof.  Luckily, my current car is still running fine, so it's not like I need to find one now.  With a little patience, something will work out.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 1, 2008)

danny p said:


> yeah, i'm probably gonna have to save some extra $$$ and get the turbo model.  if i'm spending the money, i really don't want to settle for a car that doesn't have 5spd/moonroof.  Luckily, my current car is still running fine, so it's not like I need to find one now.  With a little patience, something will work out.



If you get the XT you'll luv it----I drove one for a month or so not too long ago. Great car with a stick!!!


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## danny p (Feb 1, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> If you get the XT you'll luv it----I drove one for a month or so not too long ago. Great car with a stick!!!



yeah, a former co-worker stopped by my office today, and we got talking about cars, told him i'm looking at subarus.  He goes outside and shows me his 06 xt.  Gave me the full tour.  Looks amazing.  He said it took him a while to get used to how much power those things have.  I gotta stop talking about subarus, ha!  If you happen to have any of them come through your dealership, shoot me a pm.  Being as rare as 5spds are, I'd probably be willing to make the trip up there.


----------



## MichaelJ (Feb 1, 2008)

D'oh! Now I want a new one, even though mine is only 5 years old, 104K, will be paid off next month, and will live a lot longer. Maybe if I go crash it ... again ... ???


----------



## wintersyndrome (Feb 1, 2008)

Drive an 07 Forester...happy with it bought it in May and have since put nearly 30K on it...I guess I drive a little bit.

Love the AWD but I should have splurged for the heated seats.


----------



## Bumpsis (Feb 1, 2008)

*Subaru's shot at viral marketing*

Forget the lifts. Here's another solution:
http://www.dumpalink.com/videos/Snow...baru-i613.html


----------



## riverc0il (Feb 2, 2008)

Bumpsis said:


> Forget the lifts. Here's another solution:
> http://www.dumpalink.com/videos/Snow...baru-i613.html


That link did not go directly to any video, but one of the new videos was the hilarious Silverman F'ing Matt Damon, great stuff. One of my friends just posted this video in his blog showing a WRX doing ski jumps at a resort:
http://jalopnik.com/348672/get-that-damn-car-off-of-the-hill


----------



## dmc (Feb 2, 2008)

My Forrester is loaded up with a 7 piece drumkit right now...


----------



## bvibert (Feb 2, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> That link did not go directly to any video, but one of the new videos was the hilarious Silverman F'ing Matt Damon, great stuff. One of my friends just posted this video in his blog showing a WRX doing ski jumps at a resort:
> http://jalopnik.com/348672/get-that-damn-car-off-of-the-hill



It's the same video, this looks like the link they were going after..

http://www.dumpalink.com/videos/Snowbarding_subaru-i613.html

The Sarah Silverman video is funny stuff too, I saw that last night...


----------



## BeanoNYC (Feb 3, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> That link did not go directly to any video, but one of the new videos was the hilarious Silverman F'ing Matt Damon, great stuff.



I prefer "seagull shits on child"


----------



## BeanoNYC (Feb 3, 2008)

bvibert said:


> It's the same video, this looks like the link they were going after..
> 
> http://www.dumpalink.com/videos/Snowbarding_subaru-i613.html



Primus....SWEET!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Feb 6, 2008)

I recently priced an Outback here in Europe....Just shy of 40,000 euro for a pretty well equipped one, but not top of the line.

40,000 euro....That's just shy of $60,000!!


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 6, 2008)

Are you moving to France or something?


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Feb 6, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Are you moving to France or something?




Nope, not moving to France.  Just wondering why you never see Outbacks in Europe when they're so common in the Northeast.


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 6, 2008)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Nope, not moving to France.  Just wondering why you never see Outbacks in Europe when they're so common in the Northeast.



So I thought maybe that was just what cars like that run over there so I did a test. I went to Germany since I don't speak French and built a Passat Wagon. I built a TDI 4 motion with 6sp, heated leather power seats and roof rack among other options and it came out to 37,000 Euros. So I'd have to agree with you that the Subi's run a little expensive over there.

I also gotta say. Damn do they have a lot of options you can't get here. Everything is ala carte, not lame ass packages where you have to trade off getting a sun roof or standard transmission and what not. I would give my left nut to get a 6 sp diesel 4 motion over here.


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## bvibert (Feb 6, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> So I thought maybe that was just what cars like that run over there so I did a test. I went to Germany since I don't speak French and built a Passat Wagon. I built a TDI 4 motion with 6sp, heated leather power seats and roof rack among other options and it came out to 37,000 Euros. So I'd have to agree with you that the Subi's run a little expensive over there.
> 
> I also gotta say. Damn do they have a lot of options you can't get here. Everything is ala carte, not lame ass packages where you have to trade off getting a sun roof or standard transmission and what not. I would give my left nut to get a 6 sp diesel 4 motion over here.



I'd give my left AND right nut, plus a few bucks...


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 6, 2008)

the new Subies have been catching my eye latley...still waiting and hoping Audi brings back the Allroad...there is an 05 with manual tranny (5spd is rare in allroads) at a local Audi dealership that i've been thinking about trading in the A4 Avant for....we'll see....but the Subies are appealing for a variety of reasons.....


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 8, 2008)

Any body (cough cough...Camp) know what the deal is with the satellite radio?  Is it built into the stock radio or is it separate?  Is the antennae built into the car?


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 8, 2008)

I drive a 2006 Impreza and it's been great so far..no maintenence issues to speak of during the first 35k miles and awesome in the snow..plus the center armrest in the backseat has a ski passthrough so there's no need for a ski rack.


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## urban07sti (Feb 8, 2008)

> I'd give my left AND right nut, plus a few bucks



You could have a similar setup with the Subaru STI.....flat 4, 6 speed, 300HP, lots more power than that Diesel and incredible AWD with DCCD.  There is a toggle switch where the driver can control how the AWD system behaves.  Only the STI has this in subaru's.  Granted, you would have to put up with the large wing and other items, but for me it's a sweet car.  Can be had for low $30K's....last weekend driving up to the 'bush in that storm friday night it was a beast, no problems at all.


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 8, 2008)

bvibert said:


> I'd give my left AND right nut, plus a few bucks...



They are not yours to give away. Those nuts belong to severine.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> You could have a similar setup with the Subaru STI.....flat 4, 6 speed, 300HP, lots more power than that Diesel and incredible AWD with DCCD.  There is a toggle switch where the driver can control how the AWD system behaves.  Only the STI has this in subaru's.  Granted, you would have to put up with the large wing and other items, but for me it's a sweet car.  Can be had for low $30K's....last weekend driving up to the 'bush in that storm friday night it was a beast, no problems at all.



Meh, I'm not interest in an over turbo'd rice burner. I want a wagon I can load a bunch of stuff in that has reasonable power, is sporty, comfortable, has awd and gets good gas mileage. My Outback is fine for me. The VW would be nice, but it's not gonna happen unless I move to Germany.


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## urban07sti (Feb 8, 2008)

Fair enough, however the STI is not really a rice-burner although most people just think of it as one.  It does not sound like a riced out Civic, the flat 4 has a nice rumble to it.  I have a yakima rack and can fit everyone's gear.  Granted the ride is stiffer than most cars, but it's a really fun car to drive, not to mention safe and I get pretty solid gas mileage it in.  To each his own.  If they made a STI wagon I would consider one.....nothing better than keeping up with true "sports" car in a wagon haha.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> I have a yakima rack and can fit everyone's gear.



You probably don't have two kids and a dog. :lol:


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## urban07sti (Feb 8, 2008)

Hahaha, no not at all.  Just my buddies I ski with and their gf's that we make squeeze in the backseat.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> Fair enough, however the STI is not really a rice-burner although most people just think of it as one.  It does not sound like a riced out Civic, the flat 4 has a nice rumble to it.  I have a yakima rack and can fit everyone's gear.  Granted the ride is stiffer than most cars, but it's a really fun car to drive, not to mention safe and I get pretty solid gas mileage it in.  To each his own.  If they made a STI wagon I would consider one.....nothing better than keeping up with true "sports" car in a wagon haha.


 
Careful what you wish for....2008 STI only come in a 5 door
http://www.subaru.com/shop/overview.jsp?model=IMPREZAWRX&trim=STI&command=overview


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## urban07sti (Feb 8, 2008)

Don't even get me started on that.....completely ruined the look of the STI.  When I mentioned wagon before I meant like the WRX wagon but with the STI treatment given to it.  A few of the car clubs I'm in have some pretty sweet wagons with funny stickers 'you just got beat by a wagon'.  These new 08 hatches are not my cup of tea.  I'm happy with my 07.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> Don't even get me started on that.....completely ruined the look of the STI.  When I mentioned wagon before I meant like the WRX wagon but with the STI treatment given to it.  A few of the car clubs I'm in have some pretty sweet wagons with funny stickers 'you just got beat by a wagon'.  These new 08 hatches are not my cup of tea.  I'm happy with my 07.



Jury is still out for me until I see the car....Like you, I like the sedan very much. IMO the STI Ltd was the best one!!!


----------



## bvibert (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> You could have a similar setup with the Subaru STI.....flat 4, 6 speed, 300HP, lots more power than that Diesel and incredible AWD with DCCD.  There is a toggle switch where the driver can control how the AWD system behaves.  Only the STI has this in subaru's.  Granted, you would have to put up with the large wing and other items, but for me it's a sweet car.  Can be had for low $30K's....last weekend driving up to the 'bush in that storm friday night it was a beast, no problems at all.





wa-loaf said:


> Meh, I'm not interest in an over turbo'd rice burner. I want a wagon I can load a bunch of stuff in that has reasonable power, is sporty, comfortable, has awd and gets good gas mileage. My Outback is fine for me. The VW would be nice, but it's not gonna happen unless I move to Germany.





urban07sti said:


> Fair enough, however the STI is not really a rice-burner although most people just think of it as one.  It does not sound like a riced out Civic, the flat 4 has a nice rumble to it.  I have a yakima rack and can fit everyone's gear.  Granted the ride is stiffer than most cars, but it's a really fun car to drive, not to mention safe and I get pretty solid gas mileage it in.  To each his own.  If they made a STI wagon I would consider one.....nothing better than keeping up with true "sports" car in a wagon haha.





wa-loaf said:


> You probably don't have two kids and a dog. :lol:



Ditto on what wa-loaf said, exactly.  I have nothing against Subbies, but a STI is NOT the car I'm looking for at this stage in my life.  The whole point of having the TDI isn't to get "lots more power", it's to get lots more MPG...


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## urban07sti (Feb 8, 2008)

Yea, they didn't have any limiteds left when I bought mine....I at least got one of the limted colors though (urban gray metallic), great color on these cars IMO.

Still being pretty young and such (22), I can deal with the big wing and the attention of it, but in the future I may do a trunk swap for the little wing....I go back and worth.  It is funny in that I can't open my trunk all the way with the skis on the rack b/c the wing will hit it....



> I have nothing against Subbies, but a STI is NOT the car I'm looking for at this stage in my life



I figured as such, just throwing out an option.  My father doesn't even like to be seen in mine haha, he's a more classic sports car guy.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

bvibert said:


> The whole point of having the TDI isn't to get "lots more power", it's to get lots more MPG...



The Euro TDI's actually have a lot of power. Last time i was in Germany (2001) we rented a Golf wagon with TDI and 6 speed. I had no trouble keeping up with the beemers and benz's and was cruising easily at 110 - 120 mph.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Careful what you wish for....2008 STI only come in a 5 door
> http://www.subaru.com/shop/overview.jsp?model=IMPREZAWRX&trim=STI&command=overview



Looks kinda like a Mazda 3.


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## bvibert (Feb 8, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> The Euro TDI's actually have a lot of power. Last time i was in Germany (2001) we rented a Golf wagon with TDI and 6 speed. I had no trouble keeping up with the beemers and benz's and was cruising easily at 110 - 120 mph.



I didn't mean to say they're dogs, that's just not my motivation for wanting one.  If I wanted tons of power I'd be looking for something else...


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## bvibert (Feb 8, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Looks kinda like a Mazda 3.



Looks a LOT like a Mazda 3, I had to make sure the link actually brought me to Subaru's site at first...


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

bvibert said:


> Looks a LOT like a Mazda 3, I had to make sure the link actually brought me to Subaru's site at first...



Subaru = not exactly trend setters in design. :lol:


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## campgottagopee (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> Yea, they didn't have any limiteds left when I bought mine....I at least got one of the limted colors though (urban gray metallic), great color on these cars IMO.
> 
> Still being pretty young and such (22), I can deal with the big wing and the attention of it, but in the future I may do a trunk swap for the little wing....I go back and worth.  It is funny in that I can't open my trunk all the way with the skis on the rack b/c the wing will hit it....
> 
> ...



Yup that's a nice color. I've always liked the blue as well amybe because that's the car they race. I tried getting #007 in that limited but someone beat me to the order bank. Ended up with 111.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 8, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Subaru = not exactly trend setters in design. :lol:



Boy have you got that right


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## urban07sti (Feb 8, 2008)

Nice, that's badass you have a limited, maybe see you around.  I'll be on the lookout, actually haven't seen a limited in real life driving.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 8, 2008)

urban07sti said:


> Nice, that's badass you have a limited, maybe see you around.  I'll be on the lookout, actually haven't seen a limited in real life driving.



No, no, no---I run a Nissan-Subaru dealership so that's the car I ordered!!!! A buddy of mine did end up with the car so I do see it quite often. Sorry for any confusion. If I had to buy a car it would by an Outback Ltd......like some others the STI (albeit a kick ass car) wouldn't meet my needs. You've got a cool car, enjoy!


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 8, 2008)

The girl I'm dating drives a Forester..is she a closet dyke??


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The girl I'm dating drives a Forester..is she a closet dyke??



yes


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## dmc (Feb 8, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The girl I'm dating drives a Forester..is she a closet dyke??



yup... sorry... If your lucky she's just bi...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 8, 2008)

dmc said:


> yup... sorry... If your lucky she's just bi...



ahahahahahaha..earlier she was saying that a Forester is the ultimate lesbian car and I asked her if she was a lesbian and she said no..anyway I have a date tomorrow..


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## dmc (Feb 8, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> ahahahahahaha..earlier she was saying that a Forester is the ultimate lesbian car and I asked her if she was a lesbian and she said no..anyway I have a date tomorrow..



Subaru - the first choice for VT lesbians...

A friend of mine is gay and loves that joke... cause it's true to a degree....


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## wa-loaf (Feb 8, 2008)

dmc said:


> Subaru - the first choice for VT lesbians...
> 
> A friend of mine is gay and loves that joke... cause it's true to a degree....



Martina Navratilova was the pitch woman for awhile. Enough said.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 8, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Martina Navratilova was the pitch woman for awhile. Enough said.



Paul Hogan from Crocodile Dundee looks like alot of Lesbian women..lol..


----------



## ckofer (Feb 8, 2008)

http://menwholooklikeoldlesbians.blogspot.com/


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## Marc (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm a lesbian.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 11, 2008)

Whats with the rear wiper on the 05+ outback? I need to replace mine, but I can't find one in the local auto parts store. It seems they use some kind of new or proprietary attachment. The dealer is kind of a pain to get to and it sucks I'm going to have to waste an hour to go get a wiper blade. God knows what is going to cost from them too.


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## ctenidae (Feb 11, 2008)

Marc said:


> I'm a lesbian.



Trapped in a man's body.


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## Marc (Feb 12, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Trapped in a man's body.



You too, eh?


----------



## ctenidae (Feb 12, 2008)

Marc said:


> You too, eh?



It's a hard life.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Feb 12, 2008)

Well thanks for all the advice guys.  Just picked up my new outback, black on black.  Picked it up in a snowstorm no less!  Handled great.  A special thanks goes to camgottagopee who patiently answered all my PM's and gave me invaluable advice during this buying process.  ...I owe you a few beers!


----------



## andyzee (Feb 12, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Well thanks for all the advice guys. Just picked up my new outback, black on black. Picked it up in a snowstorm no less! Handled great. A special thanks goes to camgottagopee who patiently answered all my PM's and gave me invaluable advice during this buying process. ...I owe you a few beers!


 
Good luck and may it serve your well!


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 12, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Well thanks for all the advice guys.  Just picked up my new outback, black on black.  Picked it up in a snowstorm no less!  Handled great.  A special thanks goes to camgottagopee who patiently answered all my PM's and gave me invaluable advice during this buying process.  ...I owe you a few beers!


Sweet Rich!!! Can't wait for you to drive me north ;-)


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## Marc (Feb 13, 2008)

Don't forget about all the beers you owe me too.  Right?


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## ski_resort_observer (Feb 13, 2008)

Back to Subie's...........I think the Outback is a handsome car......I shot this picture of my Outback about a year ago....I think it's the center lump.


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 13, 2008)

ALLSKIING said:


> Sweet Rich!!! Can't wait for you to drive me north ;-)



Yeah...we got to get together and ski one of these days.


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## ctenidae (Feb 13, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Well thanks for all the advice guys.  Just picked up my new outback, black on black.



Does the stereo go to 11?


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 13, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Does the stereo go to 11?



Still scratching my head on that one.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 13, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Still scratching my head on that one.



Some sort of Spinaltap reference I guess. But did you get the sub woofer that goes under the seat?


----------



## ctenidae (Feb 13, 2008)




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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 20, 2008)

I've been actually toying with the idea of trading in/selling the Audi and picking up a Subie...the new styling (not the 08's) really has been catching my eye...I think they are great cars, last forever, fairly cheap to service (compared to the A4), have the ground clearance when needed, good gas mileage...all around a no brainer.  Stick shifts are hard to find (esp one coming off a lease...) 

Hey CAMP...if you see anything let me know!!

thanks


----------



## campgottagopee (Feb 20, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> Hey CAMP...if you see anything let me know!!
> 
> thanks



Roger that


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 20, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> I've been actually toying with the idea of trading in/selling the Audi and picking up a Subie...the new styling (not the 08's) really has been catching my eye...I think they are great cars, last forever, fairly cheap to service (compared to the A4), have the ground clearance when needed, good gas mileage...all around a no brainer.  Stick shifts are hard to find (esp one coming off a lease...)
> 
> Hey CAMP...if you see anything let me know!!
> 
> thanks



So, would you change your name on here to SKIBARU??


----------



## hammer (Feb 20, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> OK, I see a lot of Suburus around Ski Country. My ski buddy has an outback and loves it. My truck is, yet again, in the shop and I'm thinking about cutting my losses. I've put 75K of both highway and heavy city (read: Belt Parkway, everyday) on it since 2004 and am likely to do the same on my next vehicle. I'm also foreseeing 0% financing within the next month during Feb Sales. My suburu questions (In no particular order):
> 
> 1) Reliable or not?
> 2) Service costs for maintenance.
> ...


Here are my answers for whatever they are worth...

I bought a 1998 Legacy Outback back in November 98 and I've put about 151K miles on it.

1) I was unfortunate enough to have the head gasket problem that the 2.5L engines are notorious for...$2000 to fix about 1 year ago. :-x In addition, I've had a handful of other smaller issues (persistent exhaust heat shield rattle, wiper blade linkage, oil pump problem under warranty). Finally, I've recently been having some indications that the automatic transmission's days are numbered...I had a fluid flush done but time will tell.

If it weren't for the head gasket problem I'd say that the reliability is on par with the Acura Integra that I previously owned and the Toyota Highlander I have now.

2) I get my car serviced at a local shop now, but the Subaru dealer costs for maintenance weren't too bad...a bit less expensive than my Toyota.

3) I don't go through the trouble of getting snow tires, so the handling isn't what it can be...however, I think that the Subaru does a great job in the snow (better than my Toyota). Never have had to worry about getting through any unplowed backroads.

4) Can't speak for that one...I just think that the Subaru AWD system does a nice job.

5) I like the Forrester, but with a teen son and tween daughter the back seat room in the current version just isn't enough for me. I'm considering checking into the new Imprezas...I sat in one at the last Boston Auto Show and I was pleasantly surprised by the back seat room in them.

6) No, IMO...but I guess that's what you get with having a boxer engine and AWD. Still better than most SUVs.


----------



## Marc (Feb 20, 2008)

Hammer... you know it's recommended to change the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles?  Most people don't do that...


----------



## hammer (Feb 20, 2008)

Marc said:


> Hammer... you know it's recommended to change the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles? Most people don't do that...


Yep, I'm aware of that.

If the fluid changes weren't done then it was the dealer's fault...I faithfully took the car in for regular maintenance at the 30K intervals. Even remembered to get the timing belt replaced when it was recommended.

My knowledge of car issues is limited to what I gleam off of the Internet and what my mechanic explains to me (guess that puts my manhood down a notch or two ;-)), but I try to make sure that my cars get regularly maintained...I'm actually disappointed that I may not see my Outback to at least 200K miles.


----------



## mlctvt (Feb 20, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> I've been actually toying with the idea of trading in/selling the Audi and picking up a Subie...the new styling (not the 08's) really has been catching my eye...I think they are great cars, last forever, fairly cheap to service (compared to the A4), have the ground clearance when needed, good gas mileage...all around a no brainer.  Stick shifts are hard to find (esp one coming off a lease...)
> 
> Hey CAMP...if you see anything let me know!!
> 
> thanks



Make sure you drive one first! They handle terribly compared to an A4 due to the high suspension. That's the reason I searched for and bought an '05 Legacy GT limited wagon, the only year they made the manual. The Legacy wagons were available through  '07 with automatic tansmissions. Much good information on both legacys and outbacks on www.legacygt.com.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 20, 2008)

my A4 has sport suspension which is lower than normal which causes problems when needing to clear snowplow piles and thick snow...it'll blast thru it in true Quattro fashion, but i've had the protective undercovering and front lower grill damaged (all fixed/repaird) because of the low ride height....the handling is supurb though!!  I will test drive..


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## wa-loaf (Feb 20, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> my A4 has sport suspension which is lower than normal which causes problems when needing to clear snowplow piles and thick snow...it'll blast thru it in true Quattro fashion, but i've had the protective undercovering and front lower grill damaged (all fixed/repaird) because of the low ride height....the handling is supurb though!!  I will test drive..



You just need to add some hydrolics. There's probably a tuner kid down the street from you who can help out.


----------



## mlctvt (Feb 20, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> You just need to add some hydrolics. There's probably a tuner kid down the street from you who can help out.



That's a good idea. Like a home-made Audi Allroad! Too bad they discountinued that car, it had the best of both worlds, lower it for good handling and raise it for off road or deep snow.  I considered getting a used one with manual transmission but I've owned expensive German cars before and I couldn't take the high cost maintenance/parts and they weren't too reliable.


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 20, 2008)

If you have the time and money, it would be a fun project. 

Yes, too bad about the Allroad (not that I could afford one anyway). Stupid to discontinue it, not everyone wants an oversized SUV like the Q7. If Volvo can have the XC70 and XC90, Audi should be able to make it work too.


----------



## ctenidae (Feb 20, 2008)

So, are we pitching in to get an AZ Subaru yet? Call it the A-Zubaru?


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 20, 2008)

i almost pulled the trigger on an AR, but something was really spectacular about the A4 i got, just dont see many with the combo i have....however...i have been keeping my eye on

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/10/enter-the-rumormill-audi-a4-allroad-quattro/


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 20, 2008)

A4 allroad, pretty sweet.

I remember seeing a few of these when I lived in Germany. For some reason they never came to the US. http://www.terra2imports.ca/import-japan113262835270487.htm


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 20, 2008)

you wonder why??? that thing is hideous looking......  

i have ADD when it comes to cars....I always want something else...just saw a sick looking Jeep Rubicon...hhhmmmmmmmmm, summer is coming..top/doors off.....hmmmmm


----------



## bvibert (Feb 20, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> you wonder why??? that thing is hideous looking......



I think it's pretty cool looking, in a weird kinda way.  Maybe it's just because I have a sweet spot for A2 (or mkII, as the cool kids are calling them these days) Golfs (my 1st, 2nd, and 4th cars).


----------



## campgottagopee (Feb 20, 2008)

Good article
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/environment/2008-02-18-green-factories_N.htm


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 21, 2008)

my first car was a 2 dr Golf, 5 Speed and I've had 4 other VW since then from Jettas, to Passat Wagon with 4 Motion, to my wifes Beetle...I love VWs (Audi little brother) .... just dont like the look of that thing...


----------



## hammer (Feb 21, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> my first car was a 2 dr Golf, 5 Speed and I've had 4 other VW since then from Jettas, to Passat Wagon with 4 Motion, to my wifes Beetle...I love VWs (Audi little brother) .... just dont like the look of that thing...


VWs don't have that good of a reputation for reliability...how has your experience been?


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 21, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> my first car was a 2 dr Golf, 5 Speed and I've had 4 other VW since then from Jettas, to Passat Wagon with 4 Motion, to my wifes Beetle...I love VWs (Audi little brother) .... just dont like the look of that thing...



Back when I first saw one in 1990 I wanted it pretty bad. Now I'm kinda WTF?


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 21, 2008)

Never had a problem with any VW or Audi's or Saabs I've owned.....other than just normal mtce, no issues...my buddy has had more isses with his Ford than I've had with any of my past German or Jap (Nissan/Acura) cars.....


----------



## dmc (Feb 21, 2008)

Other then a fuel pump issue my Scirroco ran pretty well...  normal maint...


----------



## bvibert (Feb 21, 2008)

hammer said:


> VWs don't have that good of a reputation for reliability...how has your experience been?



Same as the other guys.  I've never had any reliability issues with my VW's, just normal stuff.  FWIW, mine have been all at least 6 years old at time of purchase.  The only real bitch I've had has been freezing door latch mechanisms on the two Passat's ('91 and '01) I've had.  I can get the door open, but then part of the mechanism is frozen open so the door won't latch... :roll:


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 1, 2008)

Subaru has a new Diesel Motor. Anyone know if it's coming to the US anytime soon? Sounds pretty sweet.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Mar 2, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Subaru has a new Diesel Motor. Anyone know if it's coming to the US anytime soon? Sounds pretty sweet.



Real neat.  Maybe they'll eventually try to challenge VW's new diesel hybrid (70mpg!)

On another note.  I made it from Stowe to NYC on one tank in my Subaru.  I even decided to take the scenic route and go with 100 until I hit the mohonk trail in Mass.  :beer:



hammer said:


> VWs don't have that good of a reputation for reliability...how has your experience been?



Major electrical problems with my old '01 Jetta. Not to mention they had to replace the ignition coils twice! My service adviser advised me to dump it before the warranty ran out.  That car was doomed from the start.  I got a bit "caught up" in Manhattan the day I was to pick it up in Brooklyn, Sept 11 2001.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 2, 2008)

I recntly had my 2006 Suburu Impreza serviced and I saw a 2008 Impreza and they are so ugly..the dealer said they have more backseat legroom but that doesn't matter to me since I can't drive from the backseat.

My lease runs out on Haloween and I'll be several thousands miles over the 36,000 lease so I'll most likely take the option to buy, and drive it another year or so before selling it privately and then leasing a different vehicle..maybe an Audi..

The only issue I've had in almost 2.5 year is that recently the check engine light came on and my cruise control didn't work but that was fixed with a new sensor and the problem seems to be common in 2006 Suburus.  I will say that the people who work at the dealership where I bought my Suburu..Faulkner off 512 in Bethlehem PA..were really friendly..I was able to knock over 40 bucks a month off my lease with negotiations..and I even got free windshield wiper blade replacements..

Suburus to me are definitely reliable..at least mine..and I abuse the F@ck out of it..


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Mar 3, 2008)

I avg'd 29.6 mpg yesterday from LI to Plattekill and back..3 guys, ski bags, and a Thule Ascent 1600 on the roof....


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> ..and I even got free windshield wiper blade replacements..



Those are included in the warranty. I think they pulled a fast one on you.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> I avg'd 29.6 mpg yesterday from LI to Plattekill and back..3 guys, ski bags, and a Thule Ascent 1600 on the roof....



In what the Audi or the new Volvo? That's pretty impressive if you go that in the Volvo, I didn't think they did that well with the turbo and all.


----------



## Marc (Mar 3, 2008)

If anyone needs advice on replacing the rear cat on a '90's Legacy, let me know, I just did mine this weekend.


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Mar 3, 2008)

in the AUDI, the Volvo was at JFK as the wife was in Vegas,,,,,


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Subaru has a new Diesel Motor. Anyone know if it's coming to the US anytime soon? Sounds pretty sweet.



Word around the campfire is it will be available in the 2010 Outback and Legacy


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Those are included in the warranty. I think they pulled a fast one on you.



They are and they did


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Those are included in the warranty. I think they pulled a fast one on you.



I know it's included but I still think it's mad steezy


----------



## hammer (Mar 3, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I recntly had my 2006 Suburu Impreza serviced and I saw a 2008 Impreza and they are so ugly..the dealer said they have more backseat legroom but that doesn't matter to me since I can't drive from the backseat.
> 
> My lease runs out on Haloween and I'll be several thousands miles over the 36,000 lease so I'll most likely take the option to buy, and drive it another year or so before selling it privately and then leasing a different vehicle..maybe an Audi..
> 
> ...


I actually don't think that the new Imprezas look too bad...I have to fit a few growing kids in the back seat so the increased rear seat room makes the Impreza an option now. I'm also hoping that the new Forester will have the bigger back seat as well so I can think of one of those as an option.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Mar 3, 2008)

0% financing now?  Guess I should have waited.


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> 0% financing now?  Guess I should have waited.



I know---I can't friggin believe it!!!! was hoping you wouldn't fin out, my bad. It is only for 24 mo's but still free $$$$$ is hard to come by.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Word around the campfire is it will be available in the 2010 Outback and Legacy



Cool, may need to add another subi to the household then.


----------



## hammer (Mar 3, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I know---I can't friggin believe it!!!! was hoping you wouldn't fin out, my bad. It is only for 24 mo's but still free $$$$$ is hard to come by.


0.0% financing for 24 months = $41.67/$1000 borrowed

Finance $20K, monthly payment = $833.33 :-o:-o

How many people can actually take advantage of this??


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

hammer said:


> 0.0% financing for 24 months = $41.67/$1000 borrowed
> 
> Finance $20K, monthly payment = $833.33 :-o:-o
> 
> How many people can actually take advantage of this??



Last month 63% of out buyers used the 0%----what it really does is spur the cash buyer into buying sooner than later.


----------



## hammer (Mar 3, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Last month 63% of out buyers used the 0%----what it really does is spur the cash buyer into buying sooner than later.


I know what you mean on the 0% financing...I've taken advantage of that the last few times I've made a large (~$3k) household purchase. I'm just surprised that there are that many people who can make a "cash purchase" of a $20K (or much more) new car...

Guess I'd rather take the longer loan and try to see if I can pay it off early...that way I'm not forced into a huge monthly payment.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 3, 2008)

hammer said:


> 0.0% financing for 24 months = $41.67/$1000 borrowed
> 
> Finance $20K, monthly payment = $833.33 :-o:-o
> 
> How many people can actually take advantage of this??



Well I was going to buy a car outright...I'd definitely take advantage of it and then the 20k could be in several CDs of various lengths..


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 3, 2008)

BTW I current lease my car so payments are mad low..I'll probably take the option to buy though..


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> BTW I current lease my car so payments are mad low..I'll probably take the option to buy though..



If you focus on what your monthly payment is (for lease or purchase) you are going to get screwed in the long run. Negotiate the price and then deal with financing. You are probably going to have to buy the car for more than it's worth at the end of your lease. You'd might be better off paying the penalty and buying a different used one. Do the math when you get to that point. Basically is the penalty larger or smaller than the difference between the buy-out or the going rate for a similar used car.


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

hammer said:


> I'm just surprised that there are that many people who can make a "cash purchase" of a $20K (or much more) new car...



I hear ya---I'm constanlty amazed at that myself.


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> If you focus on what your monthly payment is (for lease or purchase) you are going to get screwed in the long run.



Agree with purchase but not in a lease----there are only 2 things that matter in a lease---what's my payment and how much $$$$ did I take out of my pocket to get it there.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Agree with purchase but not in a lease----there are only 2 things that matter in a lease---what's my payment and how much $$$$ did I take out of my pocket to get it there.



True, but you also have to consider what it's gonna cost you at the end.

Edit: I know that's not what a lot of leasies have on their minds, but they should.


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> True, but you also have to consider what it's gonna cost you at the end.


Very few ever buy out there lease, if they do, it's usually because of BIG TIME overage on miles and they shouldn't have been leasing in the first place. That's where they should purchase. I've always given the advise that you sholdn't lease something you couldn't afford to buy. Leasing makes a lot of sense in todays market but only for those who do 18k/yr and under. Anything other than that a purchase would be better.


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Mar 3, 2008)

a very successful friend of mine (and another Audi nut) drives 25-30K/yr and leases...he buys the miles up front, and at the end of 3yrs its Audis problem to try to unload a car with 90K miles on it...cars are a depreciating liability, they do not appreciate nor are they an "investment"...would you buy real estate knowing that it'd lose money every year?  I know there are arguments for buy vs leasing , but at the end of the day they got ya...


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 3, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> a very successful friend of mine (and another Audi nut) drives 25-30K/yr and leases...he buys the miles up front, and at the end of 3yrs its Audis problem to try to unload a car with 90K miles on it...cars are a depreciating liability, they do not appreciate nor are they an "investment"...would you buy real estate knowing that it'd lose money every year?  I know there are arguments for buy vs leasing , but at the end of the day they got ya...



All that is true---I'm guessing your friend leases for biz purposes (write off, car allowance, etc.) that is a whole nother ball game


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> If you focus on what your monthly payment is (for lease or purchase) you are going to get screwed in the long run. Negotiate the price and then deal with financing. You are probably going to have to buy the car for more than it's worth at the end of your lease. You'd might be better off paying the penalty and buying a different used one. Do the math when you get to that point. Basically is the penalty larger or smaller than the difference between the buy-out or the going rate for a similar used car.



Dude..of course I negotiated the price first..I never even mentioned that I was going to lease until I got the price down a few grand..then I decided to do the lease for 36 months zero down.  I got $3500 trade in on my old Peace of shit Sentra and my payment are $204 a month including tax.  My option to buy is about 11 grand plus tax..


----------



## BeanoNYC (Mar 3, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I know---I can't friggin believe it!!!! was hoping you wouldn't fin out, my bad. It is only for 24 mo's but still free $$$$$ is hard to come by.



That's cool, I'm glad I pulled the trigger as I really needed a reliable car asap.  I now own three cars until I get the POS Freelander out of the shop and sell.  What's the rate on a 5 year?  I don't see any 24 at 0%.  It looks like all is at 0% in my region...could that be?


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 3, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> That's cool, I'm glad I pulled the trigger as I really needed a reliable car asap.  I now own three cars until I get the POS Freelander out of the shop and sell.  What's the rate on a 5 year?  I don't see any 24 at 0%.  It looks like all is at 0% in my region...could that be?




Wow..how can they afford to offer zero percent financing and still have free coffee and steezy flat screen TVs in the Service area waiting room..I wonder how much profit they make off each STi or B9 Tribeca???  One thing I know for the future is to never date a woman who drives a Forester..if she's single that is..If she's a MILF..that's different..ahahahahaha


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Wow..how can they afford to offer zero percent financing and still have free coffee and steezy flat screen TVs in the Service area waiting room



Free Wifi at my Dealer too. I got our 30k service done and worked online in the waiting room (at a desk) for a couple hours. Very cool.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Mar 3, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> One thing I know for the future is to never date a woman who drives a Forester.



What and give up every guy's dream?


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 3, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> What and give up every guy's dream?



Martina Navratilova is every guy's dream?


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Free Wifi at my Dealer too. I got our 30k service done and worked online in the waiting room (at a desk) for a couple hours. Very cool.



They wanted me to do the 30k service but it was 550 bucks..so I'm having a local shop do it all for half the price..


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 5, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> That's cool, I'm glad I pulled the trigger as I really needed a reliable car asap.  I now own three cars until I get the POS Freelander out of the shop and sell.  What's the rate on a 5 year?  I don't see any 24 at 0%.  It looks like all is at 0% in my region...could that be?



I really don't think it's 0% for all because all these incentives are coming from National, but maybe?? For 5yr it's 3.9%.


----------



## hammer (Mar 5, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I really don't think it's 0% for all because all these incentives are coming from National, but maybe?? For 5yr it's 3.9%.


That's still a good rate...best I've seen from a bank lately has been 4.99% for 60 months.


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 5, 2008)

hammer said:


> That's still a good rate...best I've seen from a bank lately has been 4.99% for 60 months.



Yes it is---SMF will give 4.9 for 72 mo's


----------



## hammer (Apr 15, 2008)

Anyone seen/driven the new 2009 Forester?


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 15, 2008)

hammer said:


> Anyone seen/driven the new 2009 Forester?



Seen a brochure and a couple on the lot of the dealership my train goes by. Looks nice to me, maybe a little bigger and more SUV-ish. Haven't driven one.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Apr 16, 2008)

Looks like they actually consulted a designer on this one....


----------



## mlctvt (Apr 16, 2008)

much uglier than the old car. 
Plus the XT no longer comes with a manual transmission.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 16, 2008)

hammer said:


> Anyone seen/driven the new 2009 Forester?



Yes on both accounts. They've done a fantasticn job with this car. Much bigger than previous years, but yet still doesn't feel like your traditional "trucky" SUV while driving. Same quirky subie motor and drivetrain but that's what makes a subaru a subaru.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 16, 2008)

mlctvt said:


> much uglier than the old car.
> Plus the XT no longer comes with a manual transmission.



That'a funny---I think it's much nicer looking than previous car. Thought it really looked like a box before, and now car has some nice lines to it.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Apr 16, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> That'a funny---I think it's much nicer looking than previous car. Thought it really looked like a box before, and now car has some nice lines to it.



Agreed!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Apr 16, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> That'a funny---I think it's much nicer looking than previous car. Thought it really looked like a box before, and now car has some nice lines to it.





BeanoNYC said:


> Agreed!




x3!


----------



## MichaelJ (Apr 16, 2008)

From Edmunds:


> Fuel economy is much the same as before, with an EPA-rated 20 mpg city/26 mpg highway for the normally aspirated engine and 19 mpg city/24 mpg highway for the turbo.


Sigh. I continue to dream that in another 3-5 years when my Outback is ready for replacement, that by then Subaru will have a hybrid or other technology to get that mileage to at least the 30's if not 40's. I love my car to bits, but given the cost of gas...


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 16, 2008)

mlctvt said:


> much uglier than the old car.
> Plus the XT no longer comes with a manual transmission.



Disagree about the looks, but it is sad that it's getting harder and harder to find good manual transmission cars.



MichaelJ said:


> From Edmunds:
> Sigh. I continue to dream that in another 3-5 years when my Outback is ready for replacement, that by then Subaru will have a hybrid or other technology to get that mileage to at least the 30's if not 40's. I love my car to bits, but given the cost of gas...



Diesel boxer coming at you in 2010: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0801_subaru_boxer_turbodiesel_first_drive/


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 16, 2008)

MichaelJ said:


> From Edmunds:
> Sigh. I continue to dream that in another 3-5 years when my Outback is ready for replacement, that by then Subaru will have a hybrid or other technology to get that mileage to at least the 30's if not 40's. I love my car to bits, but given the cost of gas...




Like WA-LOAF said, think diesle. I'm not convinced that Hybrid is the way to go.


----------



## hammer (Apr 16, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Like WA-LOAF said, think diesle. I'm not convinced that Hybrid is the way to go.


Neither am I...

I read that hybrid batteries have a lifespan of somewhere near 100K miles and that they can cost $3000 to replace. If this is correct, with this guaranteed "maintenance cost" plus the additional up-front costs, I don't see hybrids being much of a bargain even if gas costs go much higher than they are now.

Of course, diesel is $1 more per gallon where I live so diesels aren't all that cost effective at this point either...:sad:


----------



## mlctvt (Apr 16, 2008)

The consensus on the Subaru forums is that most preferred the old car since it was unique, but everyone agrees that this new "SUV" will sell better than the old "CAR" at least to Americans. The lack of a manual transmission is pushing enthusiasts
to the Outback or WRX, or to other manufacturers.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 16, 2008)

mlctvt said:


> The consensus on the Subaru forums is that most preferred the old car since it was unique, but everyone agrees that this new "SUV" will sell better than the old "CAR" at least to Americans. The lack of a manual transmission is pushing enthusiasts
> to the Outback or WRX, or to other manufacturers.



I didn't find the old car unique at all, but that's just me. I found it quite boring. 

Can still get a stick not just w/ a turbo. Hard to find sticks in most any "performance" SUV's nowadays.


----------



## mlctvt (Apr 16, 2008)

The "unique" part was it was labeled an SUV but it actually was just a tall car. Subaru was the first to come out with a car, um SUV like this.  May other brands copied and now offer tall cars too.  
If I had to buy a SUV, and I don't because my Legacy GT wagon is actually larger and hauls more than most small SUVs, the first one I'd consider was the Forester XT manual. Probably because it was the most un-SUV like SUV. It actually handled quite well and that's probably why many publications rated it the best small SUV for years. The new '09 is just like every other one now. Many say, why buy the Forester when you can get a small SUV from Toyota (RAV-4), Honda CRV or Element, etc?


----------



## MichaelJ (Apr 17, 2008)

Oooh, diesel Outback. Interesting. More expensive fuel but 50mpg is still a positive move environmental-wise. I wonder how that diesel engine's going to fare, though, trying to start it at a trailhead in the mountains at 5 or 10 degrees below zero (F).


----------



## bvibert (Apr 17, 2008)

MichaelJ said:


> Oooh, diesel Outback. Interesting. More expensive fuel but 50mpg is still a positive move environmental-wise. I wonder how that diesel engine's going to fare, though, trying to start it at a trailhead in the mountains at 5 or 10 degrees below zero (F).



Better bring a backup generator to run the block heater just in case...


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 17, 2008)

MichaelJ said:


> Oooh, diesel Outback. Interesting. More expensive fuel but 50mpg is still a positive move environmental-wise. I wonder how that diesel engine's going to fare, though, trying to start it at a trailhead in the mountains at 5 or 10 degrees below zero (F).



I'm bettin they'll think of something


----------



## BeanoNYC (Dec 28, 2008)

Bump

Anyone know what ski box fits best on an Outback?  I'm worried about how the back hatch will open.


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2008)

I have a 1600 Yakima on mine and it fits. It is as far forward as I can get it and the gate just barely hits it. This is on the factory rack. If you lift if up higher on a set of cross bars, I think you can get a bigger box on it.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Jan 3, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I have a 1600 Yakima on mine and it fits. It is as far forward as I can get it and the gate just barely hits it. This is on the factory rack. If you lift if up higher on a set of cross bars, I think you can get a bigger box on it.



Interesting.  Well I have the Thule crossbars already so I wonder how much bigger I can go.  I'm partial to Thule, so I have 2 questions:

1)  Do you know the length of your Yakima?
2)  With it mounted so far forward, does it chatter at all?


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 3, 2009)

BeanoNYC said:


> Interesting.  Well I have the Thule crossbars already so I wonder how much bigger I can go.  I'm partial to Thule, so I have 2 questions:
> 
> 1)  Do you know the length of your Yakima?
> 2)  With it mounted so far forward, does it chatter at all?



1. Not sure, but it can't hold much longer than a pair of 180s
2. No.

I just went to a rack shop that let me try a few on the car. Both the Thule 1600 and the Yakima 1600 fit. I think the Yakima was a little cheaper so I went with it.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Jan 8, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> 1. Not sure, but it can't hold much longer than a pair of 180s
> 2. No.
> 
> I just went to a rack shop that let me try a few on the car. Both the Thule 1600 and the Yakima 1600 fit. I think the Yakima was a little cheaper so I went with it.



Picked up a Thule Evolution 1600 today.  Found it on Craigslist for $250.  Fits the Outback perfectly.  Thanks for the help!


----------



## andyzee (Jan 8, 2009)

BeanoNYC said:


> Picked up a Thule Evolution 1600 today.  Found it on Craigslist for $250.  Fits the Outback perfectly.  Thanks for the help!



Now I want to see if that clunker of yours could handle the snow covered roads on Saturday


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 8, 2009)

I've been a Thule guy since 1988...however, if i had to do again, i'd get the Yak boxes...they have a better handle to turn the lock rather than just using the leverage of the Thule key that feels it'll break if you go too hard...(and i've seen em break!!)


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 15, 2009)

An article for you Subaru fanatics out there.....

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1871101,00.html?imw=Y


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 15, 2009)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> An article for you Subaru fanatics out there.....
> 
> http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1871101,00.html?imw=Y



I'm thinkin' this year will be the same with the 2010 Regacy---oops, I mean Legacy and Outback---they are sa-weet


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 16, 2009)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> An article for you Subaru fanatics out there.....
> 
> http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1871101,00.html?imw=Y





campgottagopee said:


> I'm thinkin' this year will be the same with the 2010 Regacy---oops, I mean Legacy and Outback---they are sa-weet





Are there a lot of upstate NY customers showing up at the dealership and paying with cash?  LOL.  Don't know who the author of the article is talking about....


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 16, 2009)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Are there a lot of upstate NY customers showing up at the dealership and paying with cash?  LOL.  Don't know who the author of the article is talking about....



YES, for 2008 43% of my Subie deals were paid for in green backs---it's unreal.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 16, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> YES, for 2008 43% of my Subie deals were paid for in green backs---it's unreal.




wow!  incredible!!  crisis?  what crisis!  time to raise the prices, i guess.  ;-)

good to see upstaters are doing so well.....


----------



## Philpug (Jan 16, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> YES, for 2008 43% of my Subie deals were paid for in green backs---it's unreal.



I doubt those greenbacks came from savings accounts, I would say the vast majority were from "alternative methods of financing" such as Home Equity Loans and Credit Unions. Subie owners are creative.


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 16, 2009)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> wow!  incredible!!  crisis?  what crisis!  time to raise the prices, i guess.  ;-)
> 
> good to see upstaters are doing so well.....



I've found when it becomes a buyers market (last quarter of 08) the real buyers come out.




Philpug said:


> I doubt those greenbacks came from savings accounts, I would say the vast majority were from "alternative methods of financing" such as Home Equity Loans and Credit Unions. Subie owners are creative.



A small portion were--majority were "money market accounts"---you know the ones we all lost money in!!!!!!


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 16, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I'm thinkin' this year will be the same with the 2010 Regacy---oops, I mean Legacy and Outback---they are sa-weet



Are they getting a big redesign or something?


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 16, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Are they getting a big redesign or something?



http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-legacy-2010.html

scroll down click on pix


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## wa-loaf (Jan 16, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-legacy-2010.html
> 
> scroll down click on pix



I know it's just a concept car, but the headlights look like a cadillac CTS and the video camera review mirrors are just gay. Otherwise ok, I'd be interested to see the Outback wagon version. Diesels coming this year?


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## campgottagopee (Jan 16, 2009)

Word around the fire is yes


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## mlctvt (Jan 17, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-legacy-2010.html
> 
> scroll down click on pix



All I can say is WTF. That design is the probably the ugliest Subaru ever. Looks like an even uglier Camry.
My wife and I are major Subaru fans, we have two 2005 Subarus. A Legacy GT wagon 5MT and a WRX wagon. If this is the new design we'll probably just keep ours forever or get something else.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 17, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> All I can say is WTF. That design is the probably the ugliest Subaru ever. Looks like an even uglier Camry.
> My wife and I are major Subaru fans, we have two 2005 Subarus. A Legacy GT wagon 5MT and a WRX wagon. If this is the new design we'll probably just keep ours forever or get something else.



I think it's hot!!! Bout time Subie got some cool looking lines to them


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## deadheadskier (Jan 17, 2009)

Okay, question.  I believe I read somewhere on here that Subie's are prone to having either the distributor cap or head gasket blow near abouts 100K miles and that it's a fairly expensive fix. 

The reason I ask is I have a 2004 Legacy Wagon, 4 cyl with 89K miles.  Just want to know if this is a repair I can expect to have to make and if so the typical cost.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 17, 2009)

Subies had h-gasket problems from 2000-2005. It's not too bad $$$$ wise to have fix--figure around 500ish.


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## hammer (Jan 17, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Subies had h-gasket problems from 2000-2005. It's not too bad $$$$ wise to have fix--figure around 500ish.


Maybe I overspent at a dealer or caught it late, but when mine went almost 2 years ago the repair cost over $2000. :-o

Had the gaskets replaced on my 98 Outback at around 120K miles, and I'm up to 165K miles now...so far so good.

Even with this problem, I've been quite happy with my Outback and would likely get another one.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 17, 2009)

A lot has to do with the area you're in (labor rate) and exactly what was done. If you need new heads/shave heads, put new timing belt (good idea), new water pump (good idea) and all that. If you just need to have heads taken off and new gasket put on it's really not that expensive because it's basically all labor.


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## riverc0il (Jan 17, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> All I can say is WTF. That design is the probably the ugliest Subaru ever. Looks like an even uglier Camry.


Oh man, you are right. Before I clicked I thought "it couldn't be that bad" but what an awful looking design. The proportions are just all messed up. Was thinking about a new Subbie for my next car two years down the road. Looks like I will be hoping for a new "last year's model" on the final production run of current generation. Did they at least manage to get the MPG to 30 on the new gen of the Legacy? Current version is just flirting in the upper 20s as I recall.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 17, 2009)

$500 would be doable, when I start seeing repair bills over 2 grand I contemplate and most times get a new vehicle.  I typically have car payments around $300, so that's seven months worth of payments. In the end it will be the companies decision as it's their car, but when it dies, it won't be replaced and I'll be back to using my own car and get a monthly stipend.


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## jaja111 (Jan 17, 2009)

No head gasket issues on my 2002 WRX, and it now has 270,000 on the clock. 

I think I may be at the 7.8 year mark and will probably get another Subie (maybe another WRX or a Forrester), regardless of how bad the design has gotten on the exterior (and oh my have they gotten ugly). They start changing the innards, and I'm off to the Toyota dealership for a Venza.


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## skijay (Jan 17, 2009)

I have a question to Subaru owners.  Have any of you owned an Outback / Forester with an automatic tranny and one with a 5 speed stick and can give some feedback if one is better than the other for winter driving?  I am leaning towards an 09 Forester since I can get a stick & AWD and a sunroof.  I have driven both the AT and stick, but on dry pavement.


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## jaja111 (Jan 17, 2009)

skijay said:


> I have a question to Subaru owners.  Have any of you owned an Outback / Forester with an automatic tranny and one with a 5 speed stick and can give some feedback if one is better than the other for winter driving?  I am leaning towards an 09 Forester since I can get a stick & AWD and a sunroof.  I have driven both the AT and stick, but on dry pavement.



Granted that I am biased.... I personally prefer MT in the winter. I can see its disadvantages potentially compared to an AT considering a newer driver, but I personally prefer a more direct connection with the road in slippery conditions. The greatest advantage of an MT (aside from its just makes driving more pleasurable as an activity) is the gas mileage increase.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 17, 2009)

I have a 5 sp and I can't make a direct comparison for snow, but the AT really sucks the fun out of the Outback.


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## mlctvt (Jan 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Okay, question.  I believe I read somewhere on here that Subie's are prone to having either the distributor cap or head gasket blow near abouts 100K miles and that it's a fairly expensive fix.
> 
> The reason I ask is I have a 2004 Legacy Wagon, 4 cyl with 89K miles.  Just want to know if this is a repair I can expect to have to make and if so the typical cost.



I'm not sure what years had the Head gasket problem but I think it was before 2002 model year. Check out the forums on www.legacygt.com for lots of great information on all Legacys.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 19, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> All I can say is WTF. That design is the probably the ugliest Subaru ever. Looks like an even uglier Camry.
> My wife and I are major Subaru fans, we have two 2005 Subarus. A Legacy GT wagon 5MT and a WRX wagon. If this is the new design we'll probably just keep ours forever or get something else.





campgottagopee said:


> I think it's hot!!! Bout time Subie got some cool looking lines to them





sorry, pee pee, but i've got to concur with mlctvt....that concept is pretty fugly and there's nothing, imo, "cool" about it....

granted, it's always wrong to judge a car only by pictures.  bmw's new X6 looks pretty horrendous in pictures, but, in real life, it's pretty bad-a**.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 19, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I have a 5 sp and I can't make a direct comparison for snow, but the AT really sucks the fun out of the Outback.



My wife doesn't drive stick, plus living in a congested area pretty much dictates an AT for me.  That being said, I make good use out the the sports shift in many situations.  (Slippery roads, passing another car, windy roads) It does make up (just a bit) for the complete lack of feel of an AT.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 19, 2009)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> sorry, pee pee, but i've got to concur with mlctvt....that concept is pretty fugly and there's nothing, imo, "cool" about it....
> 
> granted, it's always wrong to judge a car only by pictures.  bmw's new X6 looks pretty horrendous in pictures, but, in real life, it's pretty bad-a**.



Pictures really don't do the car justice---I've seen the car and stand by SA_WEET


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## Philpug (Jan 19, 2009)

I am interested in what they do with the Outback in this redesign.

I did a 2 year lease on my Forester, knowing the diesel was on the way. If diesel stays w/in 1.00 of gas and the diesel isn't more than 2K over the gas motor (about the price of the XT), there is a very good chance that will be my next Subie. Or... I will get a used 05-06 Leg GT and a Miata for about the same $$.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 19, 2009)

BeanoNYC said:


> My wife doesn't drive stick, plus living in a congested area pretty much dictates an AT for me.  That being said, I make good use out the the sports shift in many situations.  (Slippery roads, passing another car, windy roads) It does make up (just a bit) for the complete lack of feel of an AT.



My wife was more insistent on sticking with a 5spd than I was. One of the reasons I married her.

I had a loaner for a day with the sport shift. Maybe I just didn't get the feel for it, but I couldn't really tell what gear I was in at the moment so I just stuck it in auto.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 19, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I had a loaner for a day with the sport shift. Maybe I just didn't get the feel for it, but I couldn't really tell what gear I was in at the moment so I just stuck it in auto.



True...you can't tell by position, only feel.  I really only use it to drop gears, so that's not an issue.  If I'm coming on an icy curve, I'll pop it down a gear.  It's pretty much an knee jerk reaction.  This is the third vehicle that I've had with this kind of transmission.  It's a nice compromise.


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