# What the heck is going on at Magic?



## slatham (Jul 3, 2014)

This email came to me today at 12:20 from Tom Barker. Anyone have any insight?

At this point I have organized a new company, Magic Mountain Resort LLC, (MMR LLC) to operate Magic Mountain.  That role for MMR will commence as soon as a lease is negotiated. There is general agreement on the terms of the lease.  There is also an agreement that transfers to MMR LLC certain mountain related equipment, Point of Sale Terminals and similar office equipment and computers, Snowmaking  Equipment , Groomers, Mowers and tools to MMR.  MMR has not received and does not expect to receive any funds related to the Magic Faithful Club.  Revenues from early 2014/15 season pass sales are being spent on the mountain for maintenance and MMR will fully honor those season pass commitments.

Recognize what is the structure of Magic’s management organization.  At any time a company holds an operating lease and that operating company is totally responsible for its actions.  In succession those companies were businesses that the Thorners and Boston Concessions owned, Old Fashioned Ski Company that Boraski owned, Magic Group that Aichholz owned, JLS Magic that Sullivan owned and now Magic Mountain Resort that I own.  Each company was faced with running a mountain that has not generated significantly more revenue than it spent to sell the tickets. The Magic share program and the Magic Faithful Club were efforts by JLS Magic to address the problem and like other efforts by prior companies that program did not pass onto the next company.  It seems intuitively safe to say the MFC funds were spent on the mountain. There were major repairs and purchases, i.e. Groomer, Red Chair, Irene silt in the pond, Snowmaking pipe welding, etc., that were paid for while there was no cash generated by the mountain.  Where else could the money have come from?  

At this point in time we do not have the accounting detail to state just how Mr. Sullivan spent the MFC funds.  If MMR LLC finds an auditable explanation of MFC expenditures it will be published to the MFC donors. That is not because MMR LLC is responsible for any of this but because we all want the MFC donors to understand what happened, to not hold MMR LLC responsible and to remain faithful customers.  However, if you have a legal complaint against the MFC operation your discussion has to be with Mr. Sullivan.  His company JLS Magic still exists and it must respond to legal proceedings, but it has no revenue source from Magic.

Prior operating companies have failed because they could not contain cost to 75% of revenue.  I’m facing that same problem.   Relative to what will be done going forward, I am forced to make Magic work the old fashioned way, selling more stuff than I have to buy.  My focus now and for the foreseeable future will be cost control.  Last year Magic’s total revenue was about $950K and its total costs were $950K +/- $2K.  That defines a breakeven situation.  I will be focused on (1) maintaining or growing the revenue, (2) putting in enough money to carry operations through to winter without borrowing, (3) managing cost to end the year $200 to $300 K in the black and (4) rolling that extra cash back into the mountain on the type projects that were targeted by MFC funds.  

As always I’m always available for discussions and I will be posting a manager’s blog to describe what is happening.

Tom


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## thetrailboss (Jul 3, 2014)

Huh?  :blink:  

So Sullivan is out?


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## gmcunni (Jul 3, 2014)

wow, don't know exactly what it means but doesn't sound good.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 3, 2014)

Is this someone who is dissatisfied with Magic and trying to take it over?  This is a rambling Email.


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## WoodCore (Jul 3, 2014)

Got the same email and still digesting it.


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## reefer (Jul 3, 2014)

From the Magic Faithful page. Makes me want to go up and check out the fireworks Saturday..................

*Magic Faithful Club
 We believe in Magic 


June Ownership Update     

Here's an update from ownership as of 6/25/14:

In light of recent perceptions that changing management of the mountain would be a prudent maneuver for the mountain and its future, please be advised that JLS Magic, LLC and its sole member, Jim Sullivan, will no longer be in charge of operating or managing the mountain and a new entity headed by Tom Barker will take over control of operations and all financial matters. The mountain will continue to operate, and the ownership is looking forward to moving Magic forward."

*


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## thetrailboss (Jul 3, 2014)

reefer said:


> From the Magic Faithful page. Makes me want to go up and check out the fireworks Saturday..................
> 
> *Magic Faithful Club
> We believe in Magic
> ...



Hmmm....

Mr. Barker needs to at least proofread his press releases/Emails.  I took what was posted to be a crazy rambling Email as opposed to a communication from a business person.  Maybe I'm harsh or jonesin to ski, but that was just my opinion.


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## Abubob (Jul 3, 2014)

Magic is under new management - that's it. Sullivan is out but responsible for any complaints against his company. Barker is in, admits everyone else's failures, will honor any early 14-15 passes sold, try to control costs, finish the upcoming season in the black.


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## gmcunni (Jul 3, 2014)

i think we need an AlpineZone investigative reporter on this ASAP.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 3, 2014)

Abubob said:


> Magic is under new management - that's it. Sullivan is out but responsible for any complaints against his company. Barker is in, admits everyone else's failures, will honor any early 14-15 passes sold, try to control costs, finish the upcoming season in the black.



Good summary.  

What is the backstory?  It seems like there is some hostility/uncertainty here.  Why would a new manager be coming out so defensive?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 3, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> i think we need an AlpineZone investigative reporter on this ASAP.



We need some of the Magic regulars to do some digging and get back to us.


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## WWF-VT (Jul 3, 2014)

slatham said:


> At this point in time we do not have the accounting detail to state just how Mr. Sullivan spent the MFC funds.  If MMR LLC finds an auditable explanation of MFC expenditures it will be published to the MFC donors. That is not because MMR LLC is responsible for any of this but because we all want the MFC donors to understand what happened, to not hold MMR LLC responsible and to remain faithful customers.  However, if you have a legal complaint against the MFC operation your discussion has to be with Mr. Sullivan.  His company JLS Magic still exists and it must respond to legal proceedings, but it has no revenue source from Magic.



Seems like this refers to the  June 2009 Magic Mountain Partnership, LLC Business plan:

http://www.magicmtn.com/partnership/Magic Partnership Business Plan.pdf

And the private placement / funding:

http://www.magicmtn.com/partnership/Private Placement Memorandum.pdf


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## AdironRider (Jul 3, 2014)

And the shitshow continues.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 4, 2014)

Greg? John?


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## Masskier (Jul 4, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> Seems like this refers to the  June 2009 Magic Mountain Partnership, LLC Business plan:
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/partnership/Magic Partnership Business Plan.pdf
> 
> ...



Was the full 3 million ever raised?  I lost track after the first mil.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 4, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> And the shitshow continues.



Hate to say it but I agree...

Amateur hour. 


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## Tin (Jul 4, 2014)

slatham said:


> .
> At this point in time we do not have the accounting detail to state just how Mr. Sullivan spent the MFC funds.  If MMR LLC finds an auditable explanation of MFC expenditures it will be published to the MFC donors. That is not because MMR LLC is responsible for any of this but because we all want the MFC donors to understand what happened, to not hold MMR LLC responsible and to remain faithful customers.  However, if you have a legal complaint against the MFC operation your discussion has to be with Mr. Sullivan.  His company JLS Magic still exists and it must respond to legal proceedings, but it has no revenue source from Magic.



Sounds like more money may have been spent than what we have, we are not sure how much we owe, sue the other guy.


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## crank (Jul 4, 2014)

The only real question is what was the buy in to the MFC and what were you supposed to get for it.  Sounds like other than a season's pass anything else is forfeit.  No that I know if there is anything else so if there are any MFC members out there please fill us in.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 4, 2014)

So are the coop members SOL?


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## slatham (Jul 5, 2014)

Some more news, via email this morning. My only comment, as a MFC member, is that while I am frustrated by the lack of communication regarding use of funds, IF the money was used for the mountain and to allow it to be opened over the past couple of years, then I have no issue. Hopefully there are funds left as there is still work to do. I am also happy Jim will remain involved - I am a firm believer that his heart has always been in the right place.

Dear Friends and Magic Faithful:

For several reasons I have been advised and requested to stay silent relative to the recent changes here at Magic and in relation to the Magic Faithful Club, but I feel compelled to send out this note in response to the many e-mail strings and discussions which have been brought to my attention.  Apparently many of you did not receive my e-mail of a few days ago, so I wanted to recapitulate a few of the points and address some of the rumors that we all know can take on a life of their own and tend to get exaggerated each time they are passed from one party to another.

As most of you are aware by now, Tom Barker is establishing and funding a new operating company which will be running the mountain.  Tom will be responsible for the finances of the operation and personnel.  Based upon the experience I have garnered over the past eight seasons, Tom has requested that I assist him in order to make sure that the mountain operates as smoothly as possible. I have agreed to do so and will be pushing Tom to adhere to the higher standards we have established over the past several years.  I am not walking away, and the mountain is not folding.  I will likely not have a specific title, but as has been the case since I arrived, I will be doing whatever is necessary to make the mountain work, and sharing my knowledge with Tom will be an integral part of my role.  I will also continue to run the racing program which is a personal passion.

Now, with respect to the Magic Faithful Club, I am working with the State of Vermont to come to a resolution.  The Securities Commission is looking at the whole process from the initial offering, to the change to a club, and to all of the receipts and disbursements.  There undoubtedly will be requirements of me when that process is completed.  Club funds have been used, all completely within the four corners of the offering and associated business plan, but obviously without the express consent of the Club.  The reasoning behind the use of the funds was simply to keep the mountain open and moving forward, as there were so many demands relative to the lifts and snowmaking.  Otherwise, the mountain would have closed. I fully understand that I did not handle the situation correctly and for that I sincerely apologize.  Upon the completion of the process with the Securities Division there will be a complete accounting of all funds, and again I will do whatever is required to rectify the situation.

There are other avenues which I could have taken in response to the current issues,  but such action would have resulted in closure of the mountain.  Most of you have gone to extraordinary lengths to support Magic in my tenure, and I will do everything in my power to honor the commitments you have made by helping to keep the mountain open and moving forward and by addressing and rectifying the situation with the Magic Faithful Club.

Thank you all for taking a moment to read this.  I am happy to reply to any inquiries.  Have a wonderful Saturday, and I expect that I will see many of you at the fireworks this evening.

Jim Sullivan
Magic Mountain


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 5, 2014)

I smell embezzlement!


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## AdironRider (Jul 5, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I smell embezzlement!



I think you would be correct as well.


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## skithetrees (Jul 5, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> I think you would be correct as well.



A few things:

(1)  I think this actually a very positive change for the mountain that should have happened a long time ago.  I have faith that Tom knows how to run the mountain and especially its mechanical systems.  I expect everything from snow making to the lifts to be in better condition than ever this year.  He may not be an eloquent communicator, but I think he knows how to run the mountain quite well.  I think he knows and understands its systems, and their limitations, better than most.

(2)  I am not shocked by the, admittedly, defensive tone of the email.  Frankly, the moment the share program became a club I wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole.  Essentially, you were making a donation at that point for use at the sole discretion of the previous operator; evidenced by the lack of any real accounting.  I think the email from that person is quite telling and explains Tom's email quite well.  If I was Tom, I would want to head off that angry mob at first opportunity.  

(3)  I hope and do truly believe, that if Tom gets to run the mountain his way, this will be a turning point - provided mother nature cooperates.  

The above is my opinion, but I do truly believe this to be a positive turn.


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## skithetrees (Jul 5, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> I think you would be correct as well.



While I have never been a huge fan of Jim, I don't believe (hope) this is strictly the case.  I suspect funds may have been spent outside the corners of the agreement, but on the mountain.  I don't think this is a situation of the funds being privately pocketed.  While not proper, the former is more understandable than the latter.


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## Cannonball (Jul 5, 2014)

These open letters are insane!  They sound way more like the ramblings of a drunk or mentally disturbed person than any kind of legitimate business.  This has the makings of a saga that will turn the Burke fiasco into a forgotten side note.  Can't wait to see what happens next!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 6, 2014)

The State regulators are involved? Something sounds fishy here. This is now just more bizarre. 


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 6, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> While I have never been a huge fan of Jim, I don't believe (hope) this is strictly the case.  I suspect funds may have been spent outside the corners of the agreement, but on the mountain.  I don't think this is a situation of the funds being privately pocketed.  While not proper, the former is more understandable than the latter.



Misappropriation of funds.....embezzlement.....both are criminal.


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## skithetrees (Jul 6, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Misappropriation of funds.....embezzlement.....both are criminal.



Don't misread my comment as saying it is appropriate.  The first is the scenario of the guy getting in over his head (which I think has been the case since day 1) and spending money to try and save his business.  The second is the guy pocketing that money and walking away.  While neither is appropriate, I feel a little sorry for the poor decisions of the first guy.  But let me be clear, I have never been crazy about the party in question.


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## xwhaler (Jul 7, 2014)

In reading Tom Barker's combined with Sullivans note it seems the real issue was not controlling the way funds were spent. The issue of cost containment seems to be at the core of what is going on. Its a real chicken/egg thing with Magic...w/o spending some funds will/can the mountain expand its customer base enough to be sustainable?
But if spending those funds puts the mtn out of business it is a moot point.

Absolutely a tough question to answer for any business but especially one that is seasonal and competing with more established competitors with deep pockets nearby.

Barker did say focus will be on cost containment...from an operating perspective I do wonder how this will manifest itself? The continued reclaiming of snowmaking pipe over the past few yrs I thought was super beneficial for them. Does this snowmaking improvement now cease and they focus on running as lean an operation as possible?
IMHO, making sure the lifts run and trying to use any leftover $ for snowmaking improvements should be where the $ should go at least in the short term.
Anything else (lodge improvements, tubing, new lift for beginner area, etc) should be secondary as w/o the 1st 2 there is no mtn.


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## Tin (Jul 7, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> IMHO, making sure the lifts run and trying to use any leftover $ for snowmaking improvements should be where the $ should go at least in the short term.



What is the actual issue with Red to start each year?


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## Highway Star (Jul 7, 2014)

TGR forums have to be flipping out right now...


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 7, 2014)

When an organization is considered a club funds it pretty much gives the officer free rein when it comes to how/where money is spent. The fact that state regulators are involved in a situation involving a club is a huge red flag in my experience. I don't want to speculate too much but this is not good for Mr. Sullivan.


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## skithetrees (Jul 7, 2014)

Tin said:


> What is the actual issue with Red to start each year?



Primarily age which requires a certain percentage of parts to be replaced annually until a complete overhaul is finished in order to pass inspection.


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## vonski (Jul 7, 2014)

Didn't Sullivan have issues with failed companies in the past.  When I saw that they were trying to start a COOP.  I knew it was a lost money Pit.  Good Luck to those who invested!


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## skithetrees (Jul 7, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> In reading Tom Barker's combined with Sullivans note it seems the real issue was not controlling the way funds were spent. The issue of cost containment seems to be at the core of what is going on. Its a real chicken/egg thing with Magic...w/o spending some funds will/can the mountain expand its customer base enough to be sustainable?
> But if spending those funds puts the mtn out of business it is a moot point.
> 
> Absolutely a tough question to answer for any business but especially one that is seasonal and competing with more established competitors with deep pockets nearby.
> ...



IMO, much of the snowmaking improvement was a fool's errand for a mountain that can't make it into the black. When you can't afford to make the snow, what is the point of having 75+% coverage. They should blow snow on witch to full length of black line and magic carpet to wand to hocus pokus. Satisfy the experts and beginners while blowing the least amount of snow. Anything above that is gravy for a mountain that can't afford more. If the finances look good, then blow trick, medium, show off and talisman


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 7, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> We need some of the Magic regulars to do some digging and get back to us.


Fireworks were great!


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## DJAK (Jul 7, 2014)

Whoa.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 7, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Fireworks were great!



Nice pun.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 7, 2014)

The TGR chaos, er, thread:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ooo-much-better-than-your-area-thread!/page44


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 7, 2014)

you can see my other pics there!  Believe it or not TrailBoss, that was NOT a pun.  I get it seeing it now though.:dunce:  I'm just an idiot who always puts his foot in his mouth.  Anyway, i'm here to make light of all of this.  I'm a "donator" & not concerned in the least with this.  Every year Magic gets a hammer dropped on it in some way,.....usually as ski season is upon us.  This year it came early in July.  That's a good thing.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 7, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> you can see my other pics there!  Believe it or not TrailBoss, that was NOT a pun.  I get it seeing it now though.:dunce:  I'm just an idiot who always puts his foot in his mouth.  Anyway, i'm here to make light of all of this.  I'm a "donator" & not concerned in the least with this.  Every year Magic gets a hammer dropped on it in some way,.....usually as ski season is upon us.  This year it came early in July.  That's a good thing.



No problem--I made a bad joke :dunce:

So you're not concerned with this change of power?  Any insight into why this is coming now and what JLS will be doing?


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 7, 2014)

No, it was a good joke.  Nope, not concerned with what you call a "change of power".  I will not get specific & really can't, (don't know much) but I can tell you there is not a ton of concern among the Magic "Faithful",.......donators.  (Underlined because anyone who thought they were investing is insane)  The general thought was it's time for a change.


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## bvibert (Jul 7, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> you can see my other pics there!  Believe it or not TrailBoss, that was NOT a pun.  I get it seeing it now though.:dunce:  I'm just an idiot who always puts his foot in his mouth.  Anyway, i'm here to make light of all of this.  I'm a "donator" & not concerned in the least with this.  Every year Magic gets a hammer dropped on it in some way,.....usually as ski season is upon us.  This year it came early in July.  That's a good thing.



Nice pics!


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## wa-loaf (Jul 7, 2014)

Just hope they can stay open.


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## Abubob (Jul 7, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> The TGR chaos, er, thread:
> 
> http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ooo-much-better-than-your-area-thread!/page44



Oh maaaan!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 7, 2014)

So is JLS still going to be involved?  Or merely running the coop as a holding company with the new operator as a standalone tenant operating the resort?


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## skithetrees (Jul 7, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> So is JLS still going to be involved?  Or merely running the coop as a holding company with the new operator as a standalone tenant operating the resort?




There is no co-op. Co-op was never launched, became a "club," JLS spent those funds (so it appears) and that is the end of that.  I suspect JLS will have minimal involvement in the resort going forward.  The mountain has a group of several owners and JLS was operating the mountain under an operating agreement.


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## xwhaler (Jul 8, 2014)

Will Geoff still be running the marketing for Magic do we think?


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 8, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> Just hope they can stay open.


  I have been told several times the mountain will remain open per usual.  Take it for what it's worth.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 8, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> There is no co-op. Co-op was never launched, became a "club," JLS spent those funds (so it appears) and that is the end of that.  I suspect JLS will have minimal involvement in the resort going forward.  The mountain has a group of several owners and JLS was operating the mountain under an operating agreement.


  This is correct.  xwhaler, really too soon to answer that.  Give it some time.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 8, 2014)

I do believe the glass is always half full with the magic faithful. I hope for everyone's sake this transition is smooth and uneventful.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 8, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I do believe the glass is always half full with the magic faithful.


  I like that.  After all we've been through, this is just another bump along the way.


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## bvibert (Jul 8, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> Just hope they can stay open.



I hope they're able to figure out how to make it a profitable mountain to operate, and not just squeak by, so that they can stay open... without relying on donations...

Hopefully they get the lifts in good working order, and inspected, before the start of the season this year.  Everything else should be secondary to that, IMHO.


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## Tin (Jul 8, 2014)

bvibert said:


> Hopefully they get the lifts in good working order, and inspected, before the start of the season this year.  Everything else should be secondary to that, IMHO.



Need dat dere natural snow.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 8, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I do believe the glass is always half full with the magic faithful. I hope for everyone's sake this transition is smooth and uneventful.



Very true.


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## Bostonian (Jul 9, 2014)

What an ugly situation on the mountain there.  Hopefully, things can be resolved to ensure a successful 2014/2015 (man that sounds weird) season.  As was said earlier, I don't think there was embezzlement to enrich one party per se, but the funding that was generated by the club was incorrectly allocated into projects on the property.    Hey if they need someone to manage their resort, I will do it


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## Nick (Jul 9, 2014)

Wow, this is a mess, at least on its face. 

You guys are eternally optimistic though. I love it. I hadn't skied magic in 20 years and when I rekindled my love with the mountain last year I've really grown to enjoy it. Hope this is a positive change and there's no money shenanigans going on in the background.


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## bobbutts (Jul 9, 2014)

Abubob said:


> Oh maaaan!



Same as every visit there, egomaniacs flaming each other and rarely mentioning the topic.


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## slatham (Jul 9, 2014)

Ok, so maybe I'm taking the optimistic path of the faithful, but there's less change than it would appear. At least from what I can gather from several emails from Tom and Jim.

Tom Barker is a minority owner of the property (Magic Mountain Management) and was involved with Jim in running Magic (Jim once introduced him to me as his "Partner"). Tom is now the head of a new operating company (Magic Mountain Resort) that will lease Magic from the owners and run the mountain. Travis will remain ops manager, Chris will run beverage as he has, John the Ski Patrol. And Jim Sullivan will run Ski School and Race. So this is not a new, 3rd party management company that has no ties to the area, or to its faithful. If not for the MFC funds issue it would be a simple management change.

The real question is how will his attempt to hold costs below revenue impact the ski experience this winter? He mentions holding costs to 75% of revenue! which while a worthy long term goal would likely result in significant impact on operations. So hopefully he doesn't expect to do so this winter. Although old equipment always has issues, I hope that the recent work - and successful (eventually) operation last winter - of Red and Black will allow for both lifts running start to finish this winter. As for snowmaking, my understanding is the real issue is having the budget (and weather) to blow snow, though the pumping capacity up top is lacking.

As far as the MFC, the questions That remain open are simple - what was the money spent on, and how much if any is left? My "half full" hope is 1) all on the mountain and 2) reasonable sums remain. My view of the club is/was that it should buy and own the items the mountain needs, and not be used as operating funds. So if the need is 20 portable tower guns, then the club should buy them and own them and lease them to the mountain for $1 to make it a real transaction. That way the MFC always has power/leverage. Alas, this might be moot at this point.

In the end, from I can see from across the valley, Magic is still there, the terrain has not been altered, the woods and cliffs and twists and turns are as we remember them. God speed to whomever is working to have Magic open this winter for my skiing enjoyment!


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 9, 2014)

slatham said:


> Ok, so maybe I'm taking the optimistic path of the faithful, but there's less change than it would appear. At least from what I can gather from several emails from Tom and Jim.     In the end, from I can see from across the valley, Magic is still there, the terrain has not been altered, the woods and cliffs and twists and turns are as we remember them. God speed to whomever is working to have Magic open this winter for my skiing enjoyment!


  This is said better than I can.  Tom has been there forever.  My feeling is the "less change than it would appear" theory. Look for some "early vague" answers soon.  I'll post here.  I just liked your last paragraph So I quoted that too. :grin:


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## BenedictGomez (Jul 10, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> When an organization is considered a club funds it pretty much gives the officer free rein when it comes to how/where money is spent. *The fact that state regulators are involved in a situation involving a club is a huge red flag in my experience.* I don't want to speculate too much but this is not good for Mr. Sullivan.



It's bizarre given AFAWK nothing criminal has/is being investigated.   Were they perhaps tax exempt?



> *The Securities Commission is looking at *the whole process from the  initial offering, to the change to a club, and to *all of the receipts  and disbursements.* *There undoubtedly will be requirements of me* when  that process is completed.



Because this smells of embezzlement concerns, "speculation" or not.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 10, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's bizarre given AFAWK nothing criminal has/is being investigated.   Were they perhaps tax exempt?



He was the sole member of the LLC so corporate tax doesn't apply to him in the same manor a partnership would. However, when the shares were sold it was indeed a partnership (Matt Lillard?). Which is why I believe the commission is investigating. This is all total speculation on my part though.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 11, 2014)

http://www.powder.com/stories/magic-mountain-changes-ownership/


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 11, 2014)

Nice write up by Powder.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 11, 2014)

Hopefully it answers a few questions.  Feedback welcome as always.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 11, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Hopefully it answers a few questions.  Feedback welcome as always.



A few points:

I think former management is fine as long as they did everything in their power to contact those individuals who bought shares and allowed them the opportunity to opt out (I'm guessing that's what the SEC is looking at)

Second, the article states they did their due diligence about the co-op.....that's obviously not true. 

It sounds like Mr. Sullivan got in over his head and ran out of money.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 11, 2014)

Trying to remain neutral & to not throw anyone under a bus.  The "communication" was the biggest problem in all of this.


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## manhattanskier (Jul 11, 2014)

Great write up, one of the few that really explained things in my opinion, I hope everything will be ok.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's bizarre given AFAWK nothing criminal has/is being investigated.   Were they perhaps tax exempt?
> 
> 
> 
> Because this smells of embezzlement concerns, "speculation" or not.



I think that that basic concern were the State securities laws.  He was selling "memberships" in a "coop" that might meet the definition of a security type investment.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2014)

Good article.  Some points:



> The Magic Faithful Club—a collection of supporters who put up $3,000 each, initially to form a cooperative ownership group—would have no further role with the resort.





> Barker also said that Sullivan was cooperating with the Vermont Securities Division to account for how the roughly $600,000 of club money was spent.



That explains that as well.  



> MMM then leases the ski area to an operating company. Most recently this was JSL Magic and Sullivan, but it has included other entities over the years.



Interesting.  So JLS was merely an operating company and did not own the resort.  



> Sullivan’s operating company did not own the land or infrastructure, and neither Sullivan nor the owners of the property were willing to give up 100 percent of their investments to go to a full co-op. “It’s harder to put that kind of an asset program together for the operating company without having it backed up by the property,” says Barker.



And securities laws can be difficult:



> Barker also says the plan encountered legal issues. Once a board was established and did due diligence, Barker says, it learned that the co-op partnership not only needed permission from the State of Vermont, but from every state in which an investor lived—six or seven more states—and to pay fees, and likely fines, in each. “This was a fundraiser for the states, apparently,” Barker quips.





> In February 2014, Sullivan said there were 218 club members. MFC members get 20-percent-off season passes, and a child’s pass for half price. (They were also supposed to get a voting say in how the money was used, which is the center of the controversy surrounding Sullivan and the Securities Division).



This always seems to be the thing that kills ski areas...at least in Vermont.  Burke had this issue many times:



> Sullivan’s eight-year tenure at the helm of Magic Mountain came to a head in June, when a notice was posted that the area was delinquent on its taxes.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 11, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> And securities laws can be difficult:



That's an understatement. I would compare it water boarding.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 11, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Interesting.  So JLS was merely an operating company and did not own the resort.


  YES.  Most are unaware of this.  Tom Barker has been there much longer than the existing of JLS.  Take it for what it's worth, but it's not like this is entirely "new".  Just a change IMO.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> YES.  Most are unaware of this.  Tom Barker has been there much longer than the existing of JLS.  Take it for what it's worth, but it's not like this is entirely "new".  Just a change IMO.



That surprised me.  Especially considering how much money he wanted to invest in the physical infrastructure.  It's kind of akin to what is happening now with PCMR.  Talisker owned the ground, PCMR now is realizing how SOL they are that they only leased the ground.  Theoretically they may lose their lifts and buildings in which they invested.  

I think it does come down to someone with very good intentions, an ambitious plan that did not come to fruition, and unfortunately he got in over his head with the complexity of the situation.  The article makes it clear that the resort is much better than it was.


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## Abubob (Jul 11, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> http://www.powder.com/stories/magic-mountain-changes-ownership/



This says Sullivan is out completely but didn't I read in this thread somewhere he's still on as an advisory roll?


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 11, 2014)

Abubob said:


> This says Sullivan is out completely but didn't I read in this thread somewhere he's still on as an advisory roll?


  As of right now,.....YES.  Tom has stated Jim will remain on in an advisory role.  Whether or not that changes, time will tell.


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## AdironRider (Jul 11, 2014)

So you Magic faithful really have no fear that Jim was embezzling funds from his law clients in CT, but is clean as a whistle at Magic. Please.


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## bobbutts (Jul 11, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> So you Magic faithful really have no fear that Jim was embezzling funds from his law clients in CT, but is clean as a whistle at Magic. Please.


Just a theory as I am not intimately involved at all.
I don't think it really matters all that much as long as the resort operates.  Faithful got a decent deal for their money even if some of it was embezzled/wasted/whatever.


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## xwhaler (Jul 11, 2014)

Seems to me that this has less to do with where the $ went but more so whether a formal process was in place to get the approval from the co-op share members with how to use said funds.
Part of the neat thing about being in a co-op is the feeling that you have a say in how $ is allocated to various projects. If Sullivan just acted on his own w/o involving the members, that is probably where the issue reside.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> Just a theory as I am not intimately involved at all.
> I don't think it really matters all that much as long as the resort operates.  Faithful got a decent deal for their money even if some of it was embezzled/wasted/whatever.



I think that's the first time I have seen someone try to justify embezzlement, or in this case, perhaps alleged wrongdoing.


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## bobbutts (Jul 11, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I think that's the first time I have seen someone try to justify embezzlement, or in this case, perhaps alleged wrongdoing.



Let me try to rephrase.. They just want the mountain open and going in the right direction, which is what happened.  I also left the door open for lesser infractions than embezzlement.
If there is some dispute over some % of funds, it's secondary to the improving operations of the mountain.
Also gfy with your assertion that I am somehow defective for having the thought.  No reason at all to be a dick about it.


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## dlague (Jul 11, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> Let me try to rephrase.. They just want the mountain open and going in the right direction, which is what happened.  I also left the door open for lesser infractions than embezzlement.
> If there is some dispute over some % of funds, it's secondary to the improving operations of the mountain.
> Also gfy with your assertion that I am somehow defective for having the thought.  No reason at all to be a dick about it.



Daddy what does gfy mean?


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> Let me try to rephrase.. They just want the mountain open and going in the right direction, which is what happened.  I also left the door open for lesser infractions than embezzlement.
> If there is some dispute over some % of funds, it's secondary to the improving operations of the mountain.
> Also gfy with your assertion that I am somehow defective for having the thought.  No reason at all to be a dick about it.



Calm down there bobbutts.  I was not saying that you were "defective" and not making any personal comment.  Instead I was pointing out that perhaps the ends don't justify the means in this case.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 11, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I think that's the first time I have seen someone try to justify embezzlement, or in this case, perhaps alleged wrongdoing.



Usually the only people that try and make that argument are defense attorneys


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## JimG. (Jul 11, 2014)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

summertime.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2014)

JimG. said:


> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
> 
> summertime.



Bingo!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Jul 12, 2014)

Hiked Magic yesterday. As I suspected, management changes notwithstanding, the mountain is still there! Lots of activity too, at least for mid week July. Gravel piles in lot A. Everything mowed around the base lodge. Timber Quest in action. Significant regrading/water bar work on the lower most part of Lower Magician. Over the past two summers they have done major regrading/water bar/drainage on Upper Carpet to Wand to Lower Magician. 

Hocus Pocus was mowed, a Wand too in places (due to the work there isn't much grass growth) and Show Off had a couple of passes down the middle. The new pads on Red were removed for the summer. All the chairs are on Red and Black. Workers were in the yard working on something. There is a full set of grown up earth moving toys in the yard. Yellow Cat too, with the treads off. 

Didn't talk to anyone - it was early and I did not check them office for Tom. Next visit will likely be for a volunteer day, assuming those continue, which I am sure they will.


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## bobbutts (Jul 12, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Bingo!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



It's you stirring the pot and acting like a baby actually, but go ahead and just say "summer" if that makes you feel better.  My post was on topic and intended to spur more on topic discussion, but was made personal and taken off topic by a "moderator" of this forum.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 13, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I think that's the first time I have seen someone try to justify embezzlement, or in this case, perhaps alleged wrongdoing.





bobbutts said:


> It's you stirring the pot and acting like a baby actually, but go ahead and just say "summer" if that makes you feel better.  My post was on topic and intended to spur more on topic discussion, but was made personal and taken off topic by a "moderator" of this forum.



How exactly was trailboss's comment "personal" and "taken off topic"?

You are WAY overreacting.  

And if anyone has made things personal, it's you by telling trailboss to GFY and now calling him a "baby."  

JimG's comment "summertime" and trailboss's comment "bingo" weren't efforts to stir the pot.  They were generalized statements highlighting that almost every summer, people on this board get testy.  In this case, that person is you.  

Step back, take a deep breath and relax.  No one was insinuating you're somehow "defective" for your original comment that trailboss responded to.  There were no malice in his words.  On the other hand there's plenty of malice in yours.

And for the record, my thoughts align pretty similarly to yours on the matter.  Unless the investigation proves otherwise, I think Sullivan had his heart in the right place regarding doing what needed to be done to keep the mountain operating.  Maybe he did misappropriate some of the funding, but I don't think he was doing so to personally profit on those management / accounting decisions.  If that were the case, the new management certainly wouldn't want him sticking around in any capacity.


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## bobbutts (Jul 13, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> How exactly was trailboss's comment "personal" and "taken off topic"?
> 
> You are WAY overreacting.
> 
> ...



Fair enough and I appreciate that you at put in the effort to write a reasonable reply.  Realize that he did put words in my mouth and then suggest that I was the first person *ever* to have that line of thought.  I didn't start gumming up the thread with insults until after that ridiculous post.  If you don't see anything insulting or inflammatory or at very least off topic and useless about his post, we'll have to agree to disagree.  
Most of the drama here is caused by, fanned, or ignored by the moderators, so you can either live with what you created or change your approach.  I made no commitment to do what's right for az, that's your concern, not mine.


P.S. It would not bother me if all of the off topic posts were deleted or moved to the graveyard or whatever protocol here is for off topic crap


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## marcski (Jul 13, 2014)

Here's my take:

Magic, regardless of ownership/management, has always had and will continue to have the best terrain and coolest vibe in southern Vernont.


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## Masskier (Jul 13, 2014)

marcski said:


> Here's my take:
> 
> Magic, regardless of ownership/management, has always had and will continue to have the best terrain and coolest vibe in southern Vernont.



+1


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## skithetrees (Jul 13, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> YES.  Most are unaware of this.  Tom Barker has been there much longer than the existing of JLS.  Take it for what it's worth, but it's not like this is entirely "new".  Just a change IMO.



Yes.  Tom has been there for, I would guess, over a decade.  I suspect you will see some changes in the focus of the mountain to make it more family oriented, which I think would be welcome.  Not to say that it is not right now, but the current lift setup is not exactly beginner friendly.  Catering to a small niche of hardcore skiers who chased powder days wasn't the best strategy.  Sure the mountain was busy on powder days, but that a profitable mountain will not make.  The average crowds weren't enough to sustain the mountain.  Will the current vibe go away?  No.  But I think you may see a bit more of a beginner friendly tilt in the near future.

Also, as was mentioned in the Powder article or above, Tom is a very successful engineer who actually had a handle on many of the mountain's systems better than most.  He also knew the most cost effective ways to upgrade them and get the best results per dollar spent.  I suspect infrastructure spending will continue, but prove more fruitful per dollar.


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## abc (Jul 13, 2014)

A long time insider stepping up to replace another long time insider he's been working along side of? It looks a lot more likely the "change" is to shield the mountain operation from the expected scrutiny over the "club fund" usage.

There might be some small changes in focus and priority. But to the Magic supporters, it's likely nothing substantial will be changed.


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## Savemeasammy (Jul 14, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> Yes.  Tom has been there for, I would guess, over a decade.  I suspect you will see some changes in the focus of the mountain to make it more family oriented, which I think would be welcome.  Not to say that it is not right now, but the current lift setup is not exactly beginner friendly.  Catering to a small niche of hardcore skiers who chased powder days wasn't the best strategy.  Sure the mountain was busy on powder days, but that a profitable mountain will not make.  The average crowds weren't enough to sustain the mountain.  Will the current vibe go away?  No.  But I think you may see a bit more of a beginner friendly tilt in the near future.
> 
> Also, as was mentioned in the Powder article or above, Tom is a very successful engineer who actually had a handle on many of the mountain's systems better than most.  He also knew the most cost effective ways to upgrade them and get the best results per dollar spent.  I suspect infrastructure spending will continue, but prove more fruitful per dollar.



I have to agree with some I this.  After skiing magic last year with some friends, I was seriously considering getting passes there.  It has great challenging terrain, an excellent vibe, and it's a reasonable drive from where I live.  However, I had to change my mind after bringing my family along on another visit.  I saw the mountain through the eyes of our youngest child who said magic was "scary"...   The beginner terrain is really lacking.  In order to bring my whole family out skiing, the area of choice needs to have something for everyone.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tin (Jul 14, 2014)

Scary?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 14, 2014)

So in terms of operations, will it be the same schedule?  Weekends and (maybe not) powder days?


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 14, 2014)

Tin said:


> View attachment 12987
> 
> Scary?



That sounds like your other son Tim!


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## marcski (Jul 14, 2014)

Tin said:


> View attachment 12987
> 
> Scary?



A real hardcore boy would be drinking PBR.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> I have to agree with some I this.  After skiing magic last year with some friends, I was seriously considering getting passes there.  It has great challenging terrain, an excellent vibe, and it's a reasonable drive from where I live.  However, I had to change my mind after bringing my family along on another visit.  I saw the mountain through the eyes of our youngest child who said magic was "scary"...   The beginner terrain is really lacking.  In order to bring my whole family out skiing, the area of choice needs to have something for everyone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The problem is really getting to the beginner terrain on the lower mountain. Even that could use some grading.


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## Tin (Jul 14, 2014)

Need the Green Line.


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## timm (Jul 14, 2014)

The _Powder_ article states: "Both Barker and sources with JSL Magic say the area broke even the past two seasons. "

How could the area have broken even if the ownership group had to "kick in money" to pay delinquent taxes last month?

Also wouldn't breaking even over the past two years have had something to do with the $600,000+ in club money -- which was essentially a one time donation and not a sustainable revenue stream?

There's also some pretty nasty (and specific) accusations in the comments on the article.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 14, 2014)

timm said:


> The _Powder_ article states: "Both Barker and sources with JSL Magic say the area broke even the past two seasons. "
> 
> How could the area have broken even if the ownership group had to "kick in money" to pay delinquent taxes last month?
> 
> ...



Good points.  

As to the comments, IIRC SnowJournal has banned Magic threads because of the animosity.  I just don't understand it personally.


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## Savemeasammy (Jul 14, 2014)

Tin said:


> View attachment 12987
> 
> Scary?



My 7 year old was begging to ski red line, my little guy, not so much...!   Yes, the green chair would be good for him.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Savemeasammy (Jul 14, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> The problem is really getting to the beginner terrain on the lower mountain. Even that could use some grading.



Exactly.  The lower mt has solid beginner potential.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deadheadskier (Jul 14, 2014)

Too bad the Little Chair was removed.  The old Hocus Pocus area was great for beginners.  That's where I learned how to snowboard.


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## xwhaler (Jul 14, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Too bad the Little Chair was removed.  The old Hocus Pocus area was great for beginners.  That's where I learned how to snowboard.



This....the trails are already cut and would likely just need some trimming. Of course getting a short, used, non-surface lift would be key.
I think this would be a smarter idea than putting chairs on Green line.


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## 4aprice (Jul 14, 2014)

Always thought that if they were going to break back into big time status that they would have to put a lift back up in the beginner area.  But does Magic really need to go for that?  They seemed to have carved out a good niche for themselves with what they offer and have dedicated fans.  Question is can they expand that niche to where it is profitable.  I certainly will do my part by visiting at least once every season.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 14, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Too bad the Little Chair was removed.  The old Hocus Pocus area was great for beginners.  That's where I learned how to snowboard.


  Did you get certified?


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## Tin (Jul 14, 2014)

4aprice said:


> But does Magic really need to go for that?  They seemed to have carved out a good niche for themselves with what they offer and have dedicated fans.  Question is can they expand that niche to where it is profitable.
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Their dedicated fans are helping them barely break even so they need to do something get to bring in more. Green Line would really help in getting more families there to just see the place and be beneficial during shallow snow times. Magic has something about it where if you visit once you will be back. Magic will never takes big numbers from Stratton or Bromely but getting some of them to stop in for a day on their week long vacation would make a big difference financially. Advertising it as southern VT's "classic New England area" would draw some curiosity. You don't need polish and HSQs to have a great time.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 14, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Did you get certified?



Yup. Pretty funny looking back that anyone on skis could buy a ticket and go right to the summit, but snowboarders needed certification to ride the summit lifts.  Skiers were so afraid of snowboarders back then.


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## RustyGroomer (Jul 14, 2014)

My buddy Jay probably certified you.  He was the first boarder allowed to do so.  Hilarious.  They hated those new fangled snowboard thingamijigs back then.  You guys were banned from the West side too. Funny stuff....


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## slatham (Jul 14, 2014)

I agree that Green Line and the old Hocus Pocus area need lifts to get Magic fully on the map. But FIRST you need more snowmaking. The pipe repairs have (reportedly) been done on enough of the mountain. They need to be able to make more on this terrain. Infrastructure-wise I believe they need more pump capacity for the upper mountain, and ideally some newer, more efficient portable tower guns. But the core item is more budget to make snow. There is a limited audience for Magic with only one or two runs down the mountain, and you can't survive by waiting on natural snow and the powder hounds (this has been the reality the last 2 years which, optimistically, were maybe break even). In my opinion you need the following open on man made snow to be an alternative to other areas on a crowded weekend/holiday: Magic Carpet TTB, Medium, Trick, Wand, Show Off, Hocus Pocus, Wizard TTB, and Talisman. That is about double what they made snow on last winter. But the obvious questions are 1) can they actually make that much snow given current infrastructure 2) can they pay for that much snow and ) assuming 1&2 are manageable, will they get the return via skier visits? IMHO, the problem is that to get #3 may require a couple of years of consistently making that much snow (oh, and having 2 reliable lifts running) to build the reputation of being an alternative to the other areas. And that takes some cash, not too mention the guts to go for it. I can't reconcile the above with Tom's cost cutting objective.


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## Abubob (Jul 20, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Yup. Pretty funny looking back that anyone on skis could buy a ticket and go right to the summit, but snowboarders needed certification to ride the summit lifts.  Skiers were so afraid of snowboarders back then.



EVERYBODY should get certified.


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## doublediamond (Jul 20, 2014)

For infrastructure, pumping isn't a real problem.  Their pumps total 810 HP [Financial Statements], which a 1780 ft head (yielding 150 psi at the summit) would pump approximately 1080 gpm.  Making snow on only Trick -> Showoff and Talisman means that you have 31 gpm/Acre, or 50% better than Bromley or Stratton (20.6 and 20.9 respectively).  From what I've read, the real problem is compressors, which are too small and inefficient.  Increasing compressor capacity means they can open quicker by better utilizing their pumping capacity.  At 28ºF wetbulb, a Ratnik has a CFM/GPM ratio of 21.1, and it doesn't get below 10 until 19ºF wetbulb.

Back c. 2009 they would spend $8K for diesel for 2-days of running the compressor(s).  That sounds like about 3200 cfm with $2.50/gal diesel.  Using those figures, I estimate it would take $55k between diesel, pumping, and labor, to make 18" of snow Trick -> Wand -> Showoff.  During the summer of 2009, five used compressors totaling 21,000 cfm from a CA ski area that went to fan guns were listed on sale.  The following summer, two additional used 2000 cfm electric compressors from Quebec were on sale from the same site. Savings of running two of those 2000 cfm compressors off of electricity instead of diesel at the 2009 average VT commercial rate of 14.7¢/kwH means that both that route and Wizard -> Talisman could be made for less, at around $43k.  A simple $120k investment would mean they could more double their snowmaking production for a given budget.  This has a multiplying effect as more guaranteed terrain open would sell more passes, sell more day tickets, and conditions would improve as skiers would be spread out more.

That's assuming the Talisman pipes worked, which didn't.  Jim admitted that Efficiency Vermont came through and identified that they lost 432 cfm from holes in their air line.  Considering that he quoted repairs at around $1/foot, a $15k investment would yield a 13.5% improvement in efficiency, and a return on investment of just over a year.  

Why couldn't Jim, if he couldn't afford it as a rich lawyer, get another partner involved in Magic to help pay for either of those upgrades? 

Why was Green Line never finished?  That would mean beginners could avoid Trick, and take a shorter route down.  And Magic could open earlier as it would require less snow.

With all due respect, Jim seems to have helped a lot but he didn't try hard enough, and pre-2006 management were moronic for never fixing the pipes in the first place.


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## Newpylong (Jul 21, 2014)

How many runs that had working snowmaking at one time still are not operational and what are they? I remember a list on snow journal a few years back when the fundraising started but can't find it.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

Bump.  In another thread, I asked how things are going and this was the response:



RustyGroomer said:


> Certainly can't comment on the guys @ Powder's reasoning.  What's going on?  Getting the hill ready for snow.  Volunteer day this Saturday.  Tom Barker is the man in charge.  He has been there for many years & is taking a more active day to day role.  Time will tell if he stays in that role long term.  "Magic Faithful Club" has zero to do with any operations.



Too bad to hear that the Co-op investors are pretty much SOL.  I read that they were offered their money back and many said no.  It seems at least quite odd that the owners of the property got essentially free money for improvements.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 23, 2014)

Investors?  I won't sit here & say things went as planned but I don't know anyone who invested anything.  Many donated,....myself included.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Investors?  I won't sit here & say things went as planned but I don't know anyone who invested anything.  Many donated,....myself included.



But I still think it seems odd for folks to "donate" to a private company like this with no expectation of anything in return.  I thought that folks bought "shares" with the intent of having some control over the area?  Is that no longer the case?


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 23, 2014)

Like I said.  This whole thing was far from perfect.  Our return hopefully comes with the ability to ski & keep Magic open for years to come.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

And this might be of interest for Magic Fans:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGIC-MOUNT...23899622?pt=Art_Paintings&hash=item46284dd2e6


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 23, 2014)

That's cool but $400?  Plus $125 shipping??  No thank you.  Anyone plan on being up there Saturday?  No idea what to expect but i'll be there anyway.


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## AdironRider (Sep 23, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Like I said.  This whole thing was far from perfect.  Our return hopefully comes with the ability to ski & keep Magic open for years to come.



Well a sucker is born every day now aren't they.


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## skithetrees (Sep 23, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> But I still think it seems odd for folks to "donate" to a private company like this with no expectation of anything in return.  I thought that folks bought "shares" with the intent of having some control over the area?  Is that no longer the case?



'Unforeseen' legal costs sunk the shareholder model. Essentially, the shareholder model triggered provisions of securities laws and thereby certain legal requirements in each state where a member resided.  Compliance costs would have been in the six figures allegedly. When you seek to raise around one million dollars, that is thought to swallow.  Law school 101 that a lawyer should have foreseen. 

As a result, the model changed to a 'club' with marginal benefits of being a member at best. People were offered their money back, some took it others didn't. Generalizing, many of the people who stayed in were homeowners with a vested interest in the mountain succeeding and realized that their money was in essence a donation to JLS with no real protections.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> But I still think it seems odd for folks to "donate" to a private company like this with no expectation of anything in return.  I thought that folks bought "shares" with the intent of having some control over the area?  Is that no longer the case?



Smaller scale, but we have a small music club in town, The Stone Church that often struggles financially.  In our six years living here they are now on its third set of owners.  But, its an amazing club to see live music in; been around since 1969 and has seen some amazing musicians play there.  Phish used to play there back in the day.  When you buy tickets to shows, there is an option to pay a little extra to support the club.   I always kick in a few extra bucks every time I go to a show.   The only "benefit" I receive is knowing I'm helping keep a place alive that has brought me and others so much joy.   I assume the logic behind those who have donated to Magic is much the same.


If that makes me a "sucker" I don't really care.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> 'Unforeseen' legal costs sunk the shareholder model. Essentially, the shareholder model triggered provisions of securities laws and thereby certain legal requirements in each state where a member resided.  Compliance costs would have been in the six figures allegedly. When you seek to raise around one million dollars, that is thought to swallow.  Law school 101 that a lawyer should have foreseen.
> 
> As a result, the model changed to a 'club' with marginal benefits of being a member ats best. People were offered their money back, some took it others didn't. Generalizing, many of the people who stayed in were homeowners with a vested interest in the mountain succeeding and realized that their money was in essence a donation to JLS with no real protections.



Securities laws are VERY complicated and easy to blow if you're not careful.  From what I understand the issue was, as you put it, that he sold to folks out of state and thus interstate commerce occurred triggering federal securities laws.  Something that a lawyer probably could have foreseen....and maybe should have sought advice before trying to do it himself.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Smaller scale, but we have a small music club in town, The Stone Church that often struggles financially.  In our six years living here they are now on its third set of owners.  But, its an amazing club to see live music in; been around since 1969 and has seen some amazing musicians play there.  Phish used to play there back in the day.  When you buy tickets to shows, there is an option to pay a little extra to support the club.   I always kick in a few extra bucks every time I go to a show.   The only "benefit" I receive is knowing I'm helping keep a place alive that has brought me and others so much joy.   I assume the logic behind those who have donated to Magic is much the same.
> 
> 
> If that makes me a "sucker" I don't really care.



For the record I'm not calling anyone a "sucker".    I know that you probably were responding to another poster who is about four hours north of me right now.  

That said, I think that you're example is much different than what happened with Magic.  A few bucks here and there with the understanding that you're donating it is different than soliciting $3,000 from several hundred people with the understanding that the money will be invested into the area with the investor/contributor getting a say in the operation as a quasi-owner as well as other benefits including discounts, etc.  Now I guess they are getting nothing even though they met the stated sales goal.  

For your example the folks at least might be able to claim it as a tax deduction if it was a non-profit or charitable organization.  These folks, on the other hand, lost $3,000 completely.  Granted there was no guarantee and, from what I understand, JLS has offered a refund  But there is some potential trouble for JLS considering what has happened.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> That's cool but $400?  Plus $125 shipping??  No thank you.  Anyone plan on being up there Saturday?  No idea what to expect but i'll be there anyway.



Yeah now that you mention it I recall seeing this crazy price when he first listed it; looks like he is putting it up for bid at much less though.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 23, 2014)

Definitely not a charitable organization regarding the Stone Church.  If I had to guestimate the amount I've donated to them, it's probably in the neighborhood of $500 over the past 4 years since they've added that option to the online ticket purchasing platform.  The current owner (also our town state Representative) has been able to keep the business going during that time.  I'd hate to ever see a day where Newmarket didn't have it's Stone Church.  It was closed for several months during one lapse of ownership and it really sucked.  It's the artistic identity to our little town.  Losing it, would be like Burlington, VT losing the Flynn theater. 

I don't know what the initial "investors" to Magic were expecting in return regarding a say in the operation.  Are some folks asking for a refund in light of their recent problems?  I guess I haven't been following it closely.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 23, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Definitely not a charitable organization regarding the Stone Church.  If I had to guestimate the amount I've donated to them, it's probably in the neighborhood of $500 over the past 4 years since they've added that option to the online ticket purchasing platform.  The current owner (also our town state Representative) has been able to keep the business going during that time.  I'd hate to ever see a day where Newmarket didn't have it's Stone Church.  It was closed for several months during one lapse of ownership and it really sucked.  It's the artistic identity to our little town.  Losing it, would be like Burlington, VT losing the Flynn theater.
> 
> I don't know what the initial "investors" to Magic were expecting in return regarding a say in the operation.  Are some folks asking for a refund in light of their recent problems?  I guess I haven't been following it closely.



From the POWDER article, it says that JLS has offered refunds to some of the members; some are saying no thank you.


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## gladerider (Sep 24, 2014)

wow, i can't believe i read the entire thread on one sitting. interesting development indeed. i like magic, hope it continues operation.
i tend to agree with abc's assessment. looks like just internal change of hands.

i think the regulators are involved for two reasons.
1- there are strict rules and regulations in this country whenever you are raising money outside of your friends and family network, especially when there are equities involved. it seems that JLS may not have followed these rules. whether there was an embezzlement or not, this could be an issue with the SEC
2- whenever you raise money from outside of your family and friends network using a legal entity to do X and spend the money to do anything other than X, you may have embezzlement allegations, which is a separate issue from #1 above

my 2cents


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 24, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> Well a sucker is born every day now aren't they.


  If a sucker is believing & supporting in a place I call my home away from home for most of my life,....YES I'm proud to be one of the biggest suckers in this whole mess.  Thanks for the jab though.


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## Tin (Sep 24, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> Well a sucker is born every day now aren't they.



It is a special place that I hope is still around when I have a family. This isn't about "suckers" donating money it is about keeping an amazing place alive. If I won Powerball tomorrow I would get involved and help out as much as possible.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 24, 2014)

Tin said:


> It is a special place that I hope is still around when I have a family. This isn't about "suckers" donating money it is about keeping an amazing place alive. If I won Powerball tomorrow I would get involved and help out as much as possible.



I definitely get it too. I think I would just be a little upset about being mislead or kept in the dark about how the money was being spent. Like RG said, I think there would have been plenty of people willing to offer up a donation if that is what everyone was told


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 24, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think I would just be a little upset about being mislead or kept in the dark about how the money was being spent.


  You’d have every right to be.  We were/are very upset.  We also realized it does not help things one bit.  I’ll be up there this weekend volunteering my time.  That does.


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## drjeff (Sep 24, 2014)

Well Magic should have a bunch of racers there on at least 5 Sundays this coming season.  The schedule for the Southern VT Council (of which Magic is a part of) youth races was just released, and they're hosting on the following Sundays (January 18th, February 8th, February 15th, March 8th and March 22nd). There may be another race added in Early March as some of the state championship races location have yet to be determined.  Add in the spectator/parents to the racer and coaches tickets and that should be somewhere between 800 to 1000 tickets sold for Magic this year


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## Smellytele (Sep 24, 2014)

drjeff said:


> Well Magic should have a bunch of racers there on at least 5 Sundays this coming season.  The schedule for the Southern VT Council (of which Magic is a part of) youth races was just released, and they're hosting on the following Sundays (January 18th, February 8th, February 15th, March 8th and March 22nd). There may be another race added in Early March as some of the state championship races location have yet to be determined.  Add in the spectator/parents to the racer and coaches tickets and that should be somewhere between 800 to 1000 tickets sold for Magic this year


I know which days not go there.


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 24, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> I know which days not go there.



Haha.  I was thinking the same thing!  I was at magic on a race day last year.  They were all in the lodge at the same time having lunch, and then they all went outside at the same time to get back on the lift.  I don't get it...  Of course we finished just after and had to wait in line with them!

To be fair, the line was short the rest of the time.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 24, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> You’d have every right to be.  We were/are very upset.  We also realized it does not help things one bit.  I’ll be up there this weekend volunteering my time.  That does.



Believe me, there are plenty of us who appreciate that the Magic loyalists have done what they can to keep it afloat.  I'd be happy to help on a volunteer day at some point if the stars line up...

Ignore the D.B. comments from others. No one cares.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drjeff (Sep 24, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Haha.  I was thinking the same thing!  I was at magic on a race day last year.  They were all in the lodge at the same time having lunch, and then they all went outside at the same time to get back on the lift.  I don't get it...  Of course we finished just after and had to wait in line with them!
> 
> To be fair, the line was short the rest of the time.
> 
> ...



yup, alll depends on the format of the race and if they do/don't reset the course for the 2nd run on how the lines go on race day.  Usually, especially if the Red is running, the racer line is worst right at 1st chair as all the athletes and coaches are headed up at the same time for course inspection, and then after that quickly the pack of racers spreads out and the line quickly shortens.  If they reset for the 2nd run, then around lunchtime typically, you'll get another big surge of all the athletes heading back up at the same time for inspection of the 2nd run course


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 24, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Believe me, there are plenty of us who appreciate that the Magic loyalists have done what they can to keep it afloat.  I'd be happy to help on a volunteer day at some point if the stars line up...
> 
> Ignore the D.B. comments from others. No one cares.
> 
> ...


  Hope to see you there!  I've been ignoring d00shbag comments for years.  This is no different.


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## slatham (Sep 24, 2014)

Rusty groomer' I'll see you on Saturday.

As far a the sucker comment, I think there's some ignorance regarding the intent of the investors/donors, as well as the sequence of events. Not to mention a final outcome that is unknown.

But I could really care less. Go ski Stratton and leave Magic to the suckers.......


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 24, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> You’d have every right to be.  We were/are very upset.  We also realized it does not help things one bit.  I’ll be up there this weekend volunteering my time.  That does.



I might try and make it up to lend a hand. What day/times? Is it cool to just bring your muscles if you don't have the tools?


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 24, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Hope to see you there!



I won't be there for this one.  I'm still rehabbing from surgery - and I'm camping with my family.  I'd like to help at some point though.


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## slatham (Sep 24, 2014)

Volunteer days - this Saturday, Sept 27. And Saturday October 11th. 
9am. 
No tools required. 
Suckers welcome.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 24, 2014)

slatham said:


> Rusty groomer' I'll see you on Saturday.


  Nice!  MMW Saturday is the day & truthfully i'm not expecting a big turnout.  Seems quiet for some reason & there's a bunch of other stuff going on in the area.  VT50, Peru Fair, etc.  Either way it's mostly just a walk up the hill for a clean up here & there.  Mostly deadfall, etc.  Simple pruning here & there.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 24, 2014)

slatham said:


> Volunteer days - this Saturday, Sept 27. And Saturday October 11th.
> 9am.
> No tools required.
> Suckers welcome.


  Better version.


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## slatham (Sep 27, 2014)

Well, to directly answe the name the of this thread, "A lot of great things!".

BLT all decked out like I've never seen before for a wedding.

TimberQuest in action.

Most trails mowed, and Black Line trimmed so tight my stubble is longer than the grass.

More trail re-grading, with Carumba and Wizard receiving some love (maybe others too).

A nice collection of "new", pre-owned Ratnicks that while not the modern low-e guns, are better than what they replaced (it's all relative).

And a good showing of a dozen or so volunteers, even though there were bunch of local events going on. We did some great glade work to skiers left of........sorry, that will not be revealed without at least a beer.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 29, 2014)

slatham said:


> Well, to directly answe the name the of this thread, "A lot of great things!".
> 
> BLT all decked out like I've never seen before for a wedding.
> 
> ...


  It was a pleasant surprise.  I have to say that.  All uncertainties aside, the mountain is getting very ready for ski season.  & it looks GOOD!!


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## Tin (Sep 29, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Simple pruning here & there.




And some new spots?

:grin:


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## Tin (Sep 29, 2014)

slatham said:


> We did some great glade work to skiers left of........sorry, that will not be revealed without at least a beer.



My GF refers to Magic as a skier's playground because it is like you can ski the whole mountain. Looking forward to doing some exploring this year since it will be my day trip spot.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 29, 2014)

Tin said:


> And some new spots?
> 
> :grin:


  Funny thing is no.  Not Saturday anyway.  A few of us agreed we need to get some existing stuff skiing better.  We worked up into the woods thinning but more importantly clearing deadfall.  Disappearing Act got a thorough clean a couple years back & it skis incredibly well now.  That's the idea (in my eyes anyway) this year.  There's so much existing terrain that could ski better/SAFER if the downed limbs/trees were gone.  Less picking lines more fluid skiing is the thought.


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## Tin (Sep 29, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Funny thing is no.  Not Saturday anyway.  A few of us agreed we need to get some existing stuff skiing better.  We worked up into the woods thinning but more importantly clearing deadfall.  Disappearing Act got a thorough clean a couple years back & it skis incredibly well now.  That's the idea (in my eyes anyway) this year.  There's so much existing terrain that could ski better/SAFER if the downed limbs/trees were gone.  Less picking lines more fluid skiing is the thought.



That is great. It does ski very, very well. Plus the cleaner it is the less snow to ski it as well. You guys do great things up there!


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 29, 2014)

Tin said:


> Plus the cleaner it is the less snow to ski it as well.


  This is HUGE I've learned.  Plus, I can't ski worth shit if I'm skiing scared about what's lurking underneath.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 29, 2014)

Black got a serious haircut.  It looks soo ready.


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## slatham (Sep 30, 2014)

Rustygroomer, on my way down I stayed skiers left and widened the section we worked on but then dropped into a creek bed that was not skiable but now is, though it sure ain't wide! I may try a solo commando run sometime this fall to clear more, but it is skiable. So a little bit of new terrain!


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 30, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Black got a serious haircut.  It looks soo ready.



Looks great. This should definitely help.


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## billski (Sep 30, 2014)

Well guys, I just crawled out from my summer cave to be greeted by this lovely thread.  I too can't believe I read 156 posts.  Then again, I have a soft spot for Magic.  While it looks like I missed the discussion, I'll add a couple of tidbits.

First, about cost.   I read a Kottke report a few years ago, and if I've got my numbers right, operating expense breaks down (on the average) as labor @ 50%, energy @ 18%, insurance @10%.  Everything else is is a % tidbit here and there, including food service.  This does not consider capital projects.   I'd bet though that Magic is on the low end of revenues, don't know their energy costs and think that wages are below average.    Bigger operations scale.  Magic can't do that so readily.  I expect there is not a lot of room to cut costs.  Increasing the top line will require advertising, yet another expense.  So it's going to be a real challenge.   
Second - who owns the land / Who is MMM?  
Third - It will be hugely interesting to see how their lift ticket price structure changes this year.

Fourth - Hey, about them woods volunteer days?   I live far away and I save my money for skiing.  How's about if Magic opens up the base lodge, I bring my sleeping bag and air mattress, catch a few z's, use the bathroom and hit the trail?  Rusty said volunteers are down in numbers.  I'll bet they could get more people with this brilliant move.  Of course they'd need a Den Mother to watch us all...
And last, please run the chair so I can hike down to the glades, rather than hiking up.   Last time I was there they took Matt's jeep  and beat the crap out of it on the way up.


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## slatham (Sep 30, 2014)

Billski, they did provide transport up the mountain via a couple of the 4x4 machines, although the Rustygroomer crew hiked up. Not sure of all the reasons, or if this is even true, but I heard that lighting up Red for a one day, pre-season run is not cheap.

As far as finances, the hill effectively broke even the last 2 winters. With Tom running the moutain at no salary, and a couple of other changes, personnel cost have come down. I am not sure what, if any, additional costs will be cut. But from what I have seen and heard, thus far magic looks in good shape and ready to go.

As far as ownership of the mountain, I can't recall the names but effectively there are two large holders (say 40% each) and then Tom at say 20%. Those percentages are hearsay, but you get the idea. Tom is also the owner of the company that now holds the operating lease to run the mountain.

Think snow!


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 30, 2014)

A couple shots from last weekend others seemed to like.


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## Magic (Nov 17, 2014)

My family and I have been a part of magic for years now and it saddens me to see the poor management over the past years. It is so obvious to see the issues, but maybe some people are just too close to the situation to "see through the forest". 
1. The bar and food makes a fortune, yet if you have to wait 15 minutes or jump up and down for a beer-people walk away frustrated. Open the annex area with a few kegs like you did a few years ago.
2. Utilize the pizza oven and kitchen upstairs- easy and huge profit. 
3. No more tables up stairs with people bringing crock pots full of food. They are taking up space from paying customers who want to dine. Let them sit downstairs without taking up primo space for paying customers.
4. The store could be great- sad that it had not been utilized correctly. Bring back Dick and his staff.
5. People skiing with "comp passes" like crazy or no ticket at all. No more freebies!!! 
6. Paid Oversight/Management staff should be addressing these issues instead of chatting up friends at the bar. 
7. Tell the truth- nothing worse than facebook or website stating tubing is open, we rush to get there- and closed! Just be honest and transparent with issues. 
8. None of us want a "corporate" Stratton like atmosphere, but mountains that make money are not lax with supervision and accountability of staff.


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## Tin (Nov 17, 2014)

5. It is how you get new people there and grow the mountain's popularity.


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## xwhaler (Nov 17, 2014)

Magic said:


> My family and I have been a part of magic for years now and it saddens me to see the poor management over the past years. It is so obvious to see the issues, but maybe some people are just too close to the situation to "see through the forest".
> 1. The bar and food makes a fortune, yet if you have to wait 15 minutes or jump up and down for a beer-people walk away frustrated. Open the annex area with a few kegs like you did a few years ago.
> 2. Utilize the pizza oven and kitchen upstairs- easy and huge profit.
> 3. No more tables up stairs with people bringing crock pots full of food. They are taking up space from paying customers who want to dine. Let them sit downstairs without taking up primo space for paying customers.
> ...



What is the annex you speak of? The little bar area near the bathrooms upstairs? I've never seen that open in the 4 yrs I've been visiting Magic.
I agree sometimes it can take a while to get lunch served but I feel the quality and speed both improved this past yr.

Pizza upstairs would be good I agree esp if they already have the oven. 
Store probably requires investment up front for inventory which they may not see a return on. I dunno---it does seem like it is very underutilized though.


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## Magic (Nov 17, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> What is the annex you speak of? The little bar area near the bathrooms upstairs? I've never seen that open in the 4 yrs I've been visiting Magic.
> I agree sometimes it can take a while to get lunch served but I feel the quality and speed both improved this past yr.
> 
> Pizza upstairs would be good I agree esp if they already have the oven.
> Store probably requires investment up front for inventory which they may not see a return on. I dunno---it does seem like it is very underutilized though.



Quality of food is fine. I just think sometimes it's better to start small- just have pizza upstairs. Poor wait staff is running around like nuts trying to accomodate everyone. let people go downstairs if they want more The $$ is in the booze. Focus on that!
The best quality clothing were the magic shirts provided by Greg- high quality. Simple things turn people off- if I need hand warmers and the store is closed on a Saturaday afternoon- I'm pissed. Running the place on a shoe string budget is difficult and it's easy for me to say what needs to be done- but sometimes you have to ask your customers what they want. The dreams of a new beginner area and magic carpet are not happening anytime soon, but getting back to delivering good customer service starts from the top!


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## Savemeasammy (Nov 17, 2014)

Magic said:


> The dreams of a new beginner area and magic carpet are not happening anytime soon



I am a big fan of the skiing experience at magic, but the lack of beginner terrain is an obstacle for my family.  When we do family ski days this year, magic will unfortunately not be an option.  It's a shame, because I really love the vibe there. 


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2014)

It's been said many times, but it's a shame the old chair on Little Dipper was removed.  That was a fantastic learning area.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 17, 2014)

Magic, well said.  Now who the hell are you?  Clearly you know me?  Pm is fine.  Just curious is all.  Deadheadskier, that was the best learning area there was.  Produced such skiers as me.


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## slatham (Nov 17, 2014)

Magic, have to agree with your comments. I think that over the past couple of years management has been focused on bigger issues, namely Red, Black and snowmaking issues. There's new management this year so it will be interesting to see how things run vs previous years.

RustyGroomer, how are things looking up there? I haven't been up since 1st Volunteer day with you and crew clearing some of the West Side.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 18, 2014)

slatham said:


> RustyGroomer, how are things looking up there? I haven't been up since 1st Volunteer day with you and crew clearing some of the West Side.


  Looks pretty good to me.


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## slatham (Nov 18, 2014)

That does look good. Can't figure out where it is so it looks like I'll be buying you a bribe beer when I see you at BLT.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 3, 2014)

Bump for some Magic love in Ski Vermont.


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## slatham (Dec 3, 2014)

Nice Rusty, thanks for posting. I'm interested to know the other 9 - have to figure MRG single and Bush CastleRock made it? Hope it's on the web.

Can't wait to see old red turning, with me on it!


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## Smellytele (Dec 4, 2014)

Not much positive here...

Dear Friends of Magic:

As is normal in Londonderry, we are getting natural snow storms soon followed by warm rainy days that melt all the snow.  The surrounding areas are well into their snowmaking cycle and  have even started skiing and riding.  It is true that manmade snow is denser and survives a melt better than natural snow, but that said this year Magic Mountain is very short on funds and we could not have afforded even a limited loss.  Since we had not turned on our guns we watched none of our limited money turn into mud.  Another year I very much hope that base area snowmaking can start prior to Thanksgiving thereby having something for us to use on that weekend.
The mountain is looking very ready for winter.  Because the trails are all mowed, it now takes little snow to cover the short grass and the little bit of natural snow we had did make the trails look white.  The folks that hiked up and skied down reported a smooth ride down with no grass sticking up through the snow to help them estimate snow depth.
 I’ve said this before but I’ll repeat, early season pass revenue plays the major role in funding pre-opening snowmaking.  Throughout the note I’ve used the ‘we’ word meaning it to include myself, the mountain staff and you the customers.  Magic is special in that its customers are every bit as interested and invested as are other mountain’s investors. As such you deserve and will get the level of detail that other mountains might reserve for the “insiders”.
 A lot of this year’s season ticket revenue (that sold between March and July) was spent cleaning up costs for last year’s operations.  That cleanup was necessitated by the extensive high interest rate loans taken out in the fall for mountain opening.   We are not doing that this year.  But if we are not going to take out loans for opening and I’ve invested all I can afford then snowmaking will depends upon how fast we can sell season passes.  Comparing ticket sales this year with last year it seems that many are either not going to buy season passes or are putting off the purchase until Christmas week.  If that is what customers are planning then we will have to be slow starting snowmaking. It might not be important, huge natural snowfalls could get us open without snow making, but all should recognize the risk that entails.  Even with huge natural snowfalls between now and Christmas a bit of ‘buy season passes now’ would do wonders for fixing the Black Chair and getting compressors on order for west side snowmaking.  If you are planning to arrive Christmas week and then buy your tickets and you can possibly buy sooner please do, you will be investing in December snowmaking and enhancing your Christmas week skiing and riding.


Think Snow!

- Tom B


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## xwhaler (Dec 4, 2014)

Have to appreciate the honesty but it doesn't sound too good. Though I had heard that Tom would be taking a much more conservative approach on controlling expenditures vs Sullivan.
I hope to be at Magic sometime during x-mas week but w/o much snowmaking before then it appears that may not be in the cards.
Regardless, as long as they spin the lift when the natural is there Magic is the best place to ski in S VT and folks will be happy.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 4, 2014)

The message from Tom is making me very edgy about my season pass investment. This year the plan appears to be that you pay more for your pass and get less. I am going to be very cold blooded about evaluating Magic's performance this year. If they don't get Trick to Showoff open for Christmas week - strike one. If Talisman does not get sufficient snow making in due course, strike two. Since apparently Magic is down to one lift, if Red has problems, strike three. I appreciate that Tom has stepped in and is attempting to right the ship. That being said, I paid more for my pass this year than last and apparently that money was applied to the sin's of the past rather than assuring a quality experience this year.


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## reefer (Dec 4, 2014)

Better start praying and making sacrifices for good snow in Southern Vermont this year......................................
And that doesn't sound good for the Black..........................hope they get that fix past the inspector.


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## Smellytele (Dec 4, 2014)

What is actually up with the Black Chair this year?
Last year Red the year before that the black. So is the red one going to be the one next year?


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## mriceyman (Dec 4, 2014)

They better hope they have a winter like last year or it doesnt sound good at all. I really want to make it there but i feel its always day to day on whether a lift will spin that day regardless if snow. We were headed there 2 years ago only to find out that the black was down with the red already being down. We went elsewhere but wish we didnt have to


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 4, 2014)

Now of all things, check their FB page.  Guns on this evening.  This is all nothing new.  Just the fact Tom put it out there like he did.  Magic December panic happens every year.  I wouldn't make too much of it.


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## Smellytele (Dec 4, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Now of all things, check their FB page.  Guns on this evening.  This is all nothing new.  Just the fact Tom put it out there like he did.  Magic December panic happens every year.  I wouldn't make too much of it.



Black lift issue


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 4, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Black lift issue


  I don't know exactly & would be foolish to speculate.  I'm far from an engineer/lift guy.  I DO know they've been working on it regularly.  Last I heard was the inspector "took a ride" the other day. The lift was spinning Monday.  Crap info I know.  Apologies, best I have right now.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 4, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Not much positive here...
> 
> Dear Friends of Magic:
> 
> ...



Wow.  Pretty frank and sad.  Sounds like the previous crew left the place worse than they found it.  To start out in the red is hard.  

It also sounds like people are NOT buying passes and they are having revenue issues.  

Fingers crossed, but sad.


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## reefer (Dec 4, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> What is actually up with the Black Chair this year?
> Last year Red the year before that the black. So is the red one going to be the one next year?




Alpine Update 12/4/14

Hello fellow Magicians! The greatest time of year is almost upon us, holiday season? No even better, snow season! Some of us already have been busy on the work bench waxing and tuning, with the thought of flying down Talisman; or letting out our powder hoots and hollers with our best friends down Black Line in all of its majesty.

               This off season has been busy to say the least. All over the mountain we have been going through a transitional period, and the team we have here at the mountain has melded together in a way that you can only find at Magic. Hard work has been at the forefront of each day, out on the hill and inside the offices.

               Our mountain ops team has managed to tame the trails to a level unseen here for some time. The trails are all primed and ready for snow, mowed and clean just asking for a fresh blanket of white. Our glading project has been a labor love for a few seasons now and is coming to fruition. The woods here are clean and inviting for newcomers as well as the freeride team who has been growing into a dominant force across New England. The Red Chair saw many new upgrades from last season, from a rebuilt motor and a complete overhaul of the bull-wheel and drive train, to work on the shiv trains. Red is running well and ready to bring each of us to new memories with each ride to the top.

*Black Chair too, also has undergone substantial repairs and maintenance.* As part of its annual analysis, the State had some requirements that we are working through. Initially the state wanted us to replace all of the grips. We then hired a Vermont & New Hampshire professional engineer who specializes in ski lifts. He determined the problem was not the grips; it was how the chair was banging against and binding on the rub rail surrounding the lower drive terminal. With that information a variance is being sought to allow continued use of the grips and chair lift, conditioned upon the rub rail problem being fixed; which has been accomplished. Travis and Matt Cote, on several occasions in weather more suited to snowmaking than lift repair, cut down, reshaped, and remounted the rub rail. Many thanks go out to those two for the efforts they have put in this fall. As of Thursday 11/20 we had the lift operating at full speed with the state inspector present and all agree the binding problem had been fixed. The lift operates noticeably smoother. The next step entails the inspector and professional engineer riding the lift to confirm that the work satisfies their requirements and to determine if we need to replace the bull wheel liner, and the timing for that project. From there we will meet again with the Tramway Board *to see if they will grant the required variance.*
               Our inside team has been doing a great job at the trade shows and would like to extend a big thanks to everyone who was able to make it out and say hi. Albany and Boston were great stops for Magic and we made many new friends across New England in our travels. The support we receive at these shows confirms that people believe in Magic, and in particular the style and spirit of our special mountain. We’ve locked in some really exciting new events for this season to make everyone’s experience each weekend full of fun, we look forward to seeing everyone in Vermont.

               Season passes will be on sale, so if you have not done so, please stop by the office and make your pass purchase or you can easily do so online at www.magicmtn.com/order.  The new pass printer is here, we will be printing out everyone’s passes beginning 12/13/14. If you would like to use last year’s pass picture e-mail kmara@magicmtn.com. Pre-printing it will alleviate having to wait in line and missing precious early season turns. Snowmaking is just around the corner and all the revenues this time of year are helpful in order to give our snow-makers as much “fire power” as possible early on. The goal is to fire up the guns in early December and blow snow at every opportunity with an eye toward opening on December 20th. Order your season passes online ASAP to make the effort count!

In closing, we cannot wait to kick of the 2014-15 season. Magic holds something special to all of us old and new to the mountain. Together again with your family of winter warriors, knowing that you have chosen a place once thought lost to the growing fold of corporate skiing fluff, we make our journey to Magic for love, challenge and exhilaration not found anywhere else. Being a part of this mountain and its family is unique, the memories made and the memories to come are what make us Magic.


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## Tin (Dec 4, 2014)

That settles the December panic. And you can't blame them on the snowmaking front. No point in blowing it early to have to start from scratch. Hell Killington waited things out this year. I actually feel great about buying a season pass at Magic despite what my online banking shows.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 4, 2014)

Awesome Tin.  can't wait to make some turns.  I'm glad they updated & addressed the Black chair.


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## Tin (Dec 4, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Awesome Tin.  can't wait to make some turns.  I'm glad they updated & addressed the Black chair.



Any pet friendly lodging up there?  We want to be able to take the new family member up to enjoy it.


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## gmcunni (Dec 4, 2014)

Tin said:


> Any pet friendly lodging up there?  We want to be able to take the new family member up to enjoy it.


i believe the upperpass lodge, right across the parking lot is pet (dog at least) friendly.


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## Savemeasammy (Dec 4, 2014)

Tin said:


> That settles the December panic. And you can't blame them on the snowmaking front. No point in blowing it early to have to start from scratch. Hell Killington waited things out this year. I actually feel great about buying a season pass at Magic despite what my online banking shows.



How many passes did you buy this year you high-roller?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2014)

What a bummer.  Sounds like Magic needs to get taken over by some Hedge fund manager that loves to ski like what happened with Taos.


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## Tin (Dec 4, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> How many passes did you buy this year you high-roller?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Just got a season pass for me. Not sure if I should grab one for Erika or not based on her work schedule.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 4, 2014)

I'm not going to lie, the news is not glowing. I will continue to support them though because it would be a travesty to close a mountain like that. I hope everyone else feels the same.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 4, 2014)

Tin said:


> Any pet friendly lodging up there?  We want to be able to take the new family member up to enjoy it.



gmcunni is correct!  Vince has a pug who loves to play with my guys.  Super dog friendly.  Walk to lift/bar.  Tell him Greg from the condos sent you.  Upper Pass Lodge.  Let me know when you come.


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## Smellytele (Dec 4, 2014)

Reefer That posting was a little better at showing what was going on. The one i posted was just depressing.


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## skithetrees (Dec 4, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Reefer That posting was a little better at showing what was going on. The one i posted was just depressing.



True, but it was simply vocalizing what has been the situation nearly every year in the past. The fact that they are not taking out high interest loans, and thereby mortgaging th rest of the season, to blow early season snow is a good sign for long term planning and not crashing from one crisis to the next. The fact of the matter is, most skiers over the holiday week are pass holders.  While it is important to keep pass holders happy, it is ultimately not a terribly profitable week for the mountain absent some serious natural snow.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 5, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> True, but it was simply vocalizing what has been the situation nearly every year in the past.


 Yup.  It was not put out there the best way but this is my feeling.  Anyway, updates aside.  I can say I have seen the hard work all off-season & the mountain is in fantastic shape.  Thanksgiving morning....    yes, I know it's gone.  Just dream w/me here for a moment.


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## Tin (Dec 5, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> gmcunni is correct!  Vince has a pug who loves to play with my guys.  Super dog friendly.  Walk to lift/bar.  Tell him Greg from the condos sent you.  Upper Pass Lodge.  Let me know when you come.




Thanks Greg! I say we organize a mini summit for March. Great for supporting the mountain and meeting other AZers.


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## xwhaler (Dec 5, 2014)

Tin said:


> Thanks Greg! I say we organize a mini summit for March. Great for supporting the mountain and meeting other AZers.



+1 Definitely interested in this


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## Tin (Dec 5, 2014)

Let's see how many possible people we can get, get a count,  and go from there.


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## crank (Dec 5, 2014)

I would come up and ski Magic with you AZers.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 5, 2014)

crank said:


> I would come up and ski Magic with you AZers.


  Happy to help with all of this.  Make it happen.  Oh' & Tin & others.  Check groupon.  Upper Pass had deals on there last year.  Not sure about this year.


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## Tin (Dec 5, 2014)

I will post something in the trips forums.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 5, 2014)

FB page.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 5, 2014)

Glad to see tubing will be ready soon! :what:


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## Magic (Dec 5, 2014)

We paid for our season passes when they first went on sale, and sad to see the money has already been spent. It is getting very very hard to remain faithful to a mountain that is not faithful to it's supporters. I honestly don't believe anything I read from them anymore, because I don't know who is telling the truth. We heard last year black had a megabuck overhall, now reading the same shanninagans as last year. Magic December panic happens every year because every year it is a guessing game if the lifts will spin. When does it end?


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 5, 2014)

Magic, I don't know you or I guess I do?  You seem to know me.  Don't let the December shitstorm get to you.  Like you said, it happens every year.  I don't get this blunder @ all.  Things are going very well from what I can see.  I won't worry one bit about this.  I'd advise everyone to do the same.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 5, 2014)

Magic said:


> We paid for our season passes when they first went on sale, and sad to see the money has already been spent. It is getting very very hard to remain faithful to a mountain that is not faithful to it's supporters.


What were they supposed to do?  Keep the high interest loan?  I'm not saying that I know the answer.  I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be an easy answer.


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## Magic (Dec 5, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> What were they supposed to do?  Keep the high interest loan?  I'm not saying that I know the answer.  I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be an easy answer.



High interest loans were another blow that no one heard about until yesterday. My point is, we don't know what to believe anymore... Is there anything else that will come out we don't know about? I'm sorry- I am not a downer, just having a hard time digesting another negative issue...


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## Smellytele (Dec 5, 2014)

Catch-22 -don't blow snow piss customers off so they don't buy season passes or any pre-bought tickets. Blow snow get stuck in a loop of debt. Kind of like a farmer...


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## Smellytele (Dec 5, 2014)

the black lift as magic stated had an "overhaul" last year. Didn't the grips get replaced on it as well recently?


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## Magic (Dec 5, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Magic, I don't know you or I guess I do?  You seem to know me.  Don't let the December shitstorm get to you.  Like you said, it happens every year.  I don't get this blunder @ all.  Things are going very well from what I can see.  I won't worry one bit about this.  I'd advise everyone to do the same.



Thanks Greg. You are always an optimist and your love and support of the mountain is awesome! Looking forward to a great season. Wish the woodchuck guy threw in a few million as a goodbye gift..


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## thetrailboss (Dec 5, 2014)

I guess I am still quite surprised that Jim Sullivan is gone.  Considering all the press and media attention, as well as what they were doing, it seemed like they were on the right track.  At least that was what it seemed.  The fact that he was shown the door I guess makes me realize that it was not as stable as it seemed.  

The sad part is that it seems that the Coop members really got hosed in that their money is gone and so is whatever ownership they had in the place.  And yes I understand that many folks did it to see the place open and it was more altruistic than anything, but it is still unfortunate because with better leadership in place it would have worked.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 5, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I guess I am still quite surprised that Jim Sullivan is gone.  Considering all the press and media attention, as well as what they were doing, it seemed like they were on the right track.  At least that was what it seemed.  The fact that he was shown the door I guess makes me realize that it was not as stable as it seemed.
> 
> The sad part is that it seems that the Coop members really got hosed in that their money is gone and so is whatever ownership they had in the place.  And yes I understand that many folks did it to see the place open and it was more altruistic than anything, but it is still unfortunate because with better leadership in place it would have worked.



B I T I N G     L I P.   "Seemed" is the theme word here.  Jim is still around.  No comment.


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## slatham (Dec 5, 2014)

I think Greg's optimism is actually well placed. I've had good communication with Tom and without getting into the details I think he is taking a sound and pragmatic approach to running Magic. But I will comment on two things.

Black never had a complete "overhaul" (Red did, or damn close), though it did have a lot of work done. Even after an overhaul though you will always have some start up issues with a lift that old. The grips issue - which seems to not be the grips - is on it's way to resolution but will take time.

Making snow in NOVEMBER is risky for any area and for Magic, unwise. Even now it's still only December 5th for gods sake! I would much rather they wait until the probability of a wipeout thaw is lessened, and a base building dump is increased.

Finally, anyone who plans to buy a pass they should do so now so that it can help the snowmaking budget. For those just looking for a deal, and to help, they should buy a magic card or a three pack NOW. 

In the meantime, THINK SNOW! Next weeks storm could be a big help!


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## skithetrees (Dec 5, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Jim is still around.



In "transition" would be a better description. My perspective is that Tom is using good business sense to set the mountain up for a better future. Sure, some people might not like some of the steps in the process, but the alternative is ... well, you know. Like any company that bleeds money, choices have to be made that may result in short term pain. The issue here is that people are finally seeing what has been going on behind the scenes every year. The situation is better,  and the communication more upfront, and honest this year. I'd prefer that. 

Regarding the co-op, stop calling that. It existed in theory only and was so bungled by previous management that it never launched. Previous management turned it into a club, which prospective coop members could opt out of and get their money back. The club was nothing more than an empty donation to the mountain with marginal benefits. Was it mismanaged by previous management, probably. But it's not like members were really going to get anything out of it anyway.


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## catsup948 (Dec 6, 2014)

Tin said:


> Thanks Greg! I say we organize a mini summit for March. Great for supporting the mountain and meeting other AZers.



I'm in!  70 minutes from my house.  I feel I should get there at least once or twice a season.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 6, 2014)

re: black lift:
"The grips issue - which seems to not be the grips...."

-- to monitor grip spring tension settings, the state has required 2x daily monitoring of 100% grips, along with slip-testing of 100% of the grips every 7 operational days.  i've heard these checks are not the norm.       

-- fore and aft chair swing has been found to be severely restricted (you may notice this when loading).

would it not have been better to address the black lift before december?


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 6, 2014)

How can a fixed grip lift have so many issues? Did they hire the lift mechs from sugarbush? :lol:

In all seriousness though, these lift issues reek of years of poor/deferred maintenance


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 6, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> How can a fixed grip lift have so many issues? Did they hire the lift mechs from sugarbush? :lol:
> 
> In all seriousness though, these lift issues reek of years of poor/deferred maintenance



Absolutely


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 8, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> Regarding the co-op, stop calling that. It existed in theory only and was so bungled by previous management that it never launched. Previous management turned it into a club, which prospective coop members could opt out of and get their money back. The club was nothing more than an empty donation to the mountain with marginal benefits. Was it mismanaged by previous management, probably. But it's not like members were really going to get anything out of it anyway.


  who called it a co-op?  Recently anyway.


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## skithetrees (Dec 8, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> who called it a co-op?  Recently anyway.



Post 210.


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## skithetrees (Dec 8, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> How can a fixed grip lift have so many issues? Did they hire the lift mechs from sugarbush? :lol:
> 
> In all seriousness though, these lift issues reek of years of poor/deferred maintenance



Yes and no. That is certainly a large factor and catch up is still being played. But many of the required parts are no longer available and must be custom manufactured at substantial expense. At some point you have to wonder if a new (used) lift would be cheaper over a ten year time frame. Probably yes, but you need the money upfront.


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 8, 2014)

skithetrees said:


> Yes and no. That is certainly a large factor and catch up is still being played. But many of the required parts are no longer available and must be custom manufactured at substantial expense. At some point you have to wonder if a new (used) lift would be cheaper over a ten year time frame. Probably yes, but you need the money upfront.



From what I've heard the issue is with the grips. Grips are interchangeable and don't need to be made by the original manufacturer of the lift. They could swap out yan grips with poma if they wanted to. Or they could probably find yan grips on the market, brianhead removed a yan over the summer, they could've bought parts from them.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 9, 2014)

grips are certainly not "interchangeable".  

first, they must fit the hanger head and not affect fore/aft chair swing when the grips are tensioned.   they also must go over the black lifts' Lorunser and Mueller line sheaves while providing 15 degrees of swing clearance, they must fit the Pohlig return wheel and the unknown drive wheel too, they must provide adequate slip resistance at the steepest section of the line (just before the ledges), the manufacturer (or a PE registered in VT) must provide instructions for installation/proper installation, NDT procedures and verification that the grips automatically provide for adequate gripping with a 3% loss in rope diameter.  do you know a PE that will certify replacement grips on the only Pohlig in the US?


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 9, 2014)

As we wait I give you a vid from my buddy Radam. Enjoy!


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 9, 2014)

I'm not sure what a PE is. But I do know that many resorts mix and match grips. Those aren't pohlig chairs either, they're Yan

I'm sure one of the major manufacturers  (dopp, poma) would have an answer to those questions if magic asked


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## WoodCore (Dec 9, 2014)

PE would stand for Professional Engineer.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 9, 2014)

hanger and chair are early L/E, am told the grips may be borvig or possibly cast locally.  the hanger head is sized for D or T Type grips but they won't work on the line or in the terminals.  since swapping out grips would trigger an overall engineering review by the state, you can bet neither Poma nor Dopplemayr will touch the black lift.


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## skithetrees (Dec 9, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> From what I've heard the issue is with the grips. Grips are interchangeable and don't need to be made by the original manufacturer of the lift. They could swap out yan grips with poma if they wanted to. Or they could probably find yan grips on the market, brianhead removed a yan over the summer, they could've bought parts from them.



Yes, that is the current issue.  Many, many more have been addressed prior to the grips.  I can't comment on the grips, as I just don't know, but many of the previous parts were custom machine shop jobs.


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## jrmagic (Dec 9, 2014)

I apparantly missed all the noise here over Tom's letter. There have been some comments to a dress this so all I will add is that when that letter went out myself and a dozen or so other passholders were chatting about how this would be received by the general public who don't know Tom very well. The consensus was that when we see Tom we needed to tell him to find someone to help write his letters. He is very smart and has good business sense but writing is not his strong suit. With that I will leave that aspect alone. All I can say is that Magic should be opening in little more than a week and I am looking forward to another great season spent with friends and family on the trails, in the trees and then hanging with the whole Magic family at the BLT!!


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 9, 2014)

Well said JR.  I was struggling with just how to put this.  The revised letter was much more on target with what's going on.  From my point of view anyway.  Looking forward to it JR!!  Soon my friend.


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## gmcunni (Dec 9, 2014)

i wish there was a web cam @ magic so i could see it snowing up there.


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## jrmagic (Dec 9, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Well said JR.  I was struggling with just how to put this.  The revised letter was much more on target with what's going on.  From my point of view anyway.  Looking forward to it JR!!  Soon my friend.



From my point of view as well. I'm looking forward to making some turns with you very soon! I might miss opening day but will probably get there on the 12/26 and stay through 1/3 or 1/4.


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## Smellytele (Dec 9, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> i wish there was a web cam @ magic so i could see it snowing up there.



Not sure what it is actually doing there. You might not want to know but you may...


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 9, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Not sure what it is actually doing there. You might not want to know but you may...


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## Savemeasammy (Dec 9, 2014)

^Awesome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 9, 2014)

Taking today from JR's back deck keg cam.  (Not my pic)


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## jrmagic (Dec 9, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Taking today from JR's back deck keg cam.  (Not my pic)



Maybe I need to email my camera operator to adjust the camera angle up to look at Talisman


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## doublediamond (Dec 9, 2014)

jrmagic said:


> All I can say is that Magic should be opening in little more than a week and I am looking forward to another great season spent with friends and family on the trails, in the trees and then hanging with the whole Magic family at the BLT!!



How if they haven't ordered compressors and are only using fans around the base?


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## Smellytele (Dec 9, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


>



Nice!!!


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## Tin (Dec 17, 2014)

Anyone heading up for opening weekend? Any word on Black? Given RG's video things look to be great.


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## xwhaler (Dec 17, 2014)

Planning to be there the wknd after Xmas...either Sat or Sunday. Will look fwd to TRs this wknd.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 17, 2014)

I'll be there bright & early.  Hoping for a good surface.  Tons of snow Sunday.  I'll try to get a report soon.


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## reefer (Dec 17, 2014)

Can't make it Saturday but should be there Sunday.


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## C-Rex (Dec 17, 2014)

Thinking about the Friday after Christmas.  I want to stay away from the the insane crowds of gapers and their spawn.  Hopefully they'll get some refresher snow between now and then.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 17, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> Thinking about the Friday after Christmas.  I want to stay away from the the insane crowds of gapers and their spawn.  Hopefully they'll get some refresher snow between now and then.


  I'll do my best to give you guys some reports.  Honest reports.  I'll be up there this Friday through Jan 5th.  Skiing pretty much everyday.


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## jrmagic (Dec 17, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I want to stay away from the the insane crowds of gapers and their spawn.


I can just abouy guarantee that this will not happen regardless of when you come.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 17, 2014)

jrmagic said:


> I can just abouy guarantee that this will not happen regardless of when you come.



I think that's why he wants to go to Magic.


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## jrmagic (Dec 17, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> I'll do my best to give you guys some reports.  Honest reports.  I'll be up there this Friday through Jan 5th.  Skiing pretty much everyday.



Saturday is definitely out for me. Hopefully I can make Sunday. If not I'm coming up on the 26th and will be there at least until the Saturday following New Years. Looking forward to making some turns!


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## jrmagic (Dec 17, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> I think that's why he wants to go to Magic.



Lol I guess I totally misread that.


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## rocks860 (Dec 17, 2014)

May be there on the 27th definitely will keep a close eye on this thread for updates


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## Ski Till I Die (Dec 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I might try and make it up to lend a hand. What day/times? Is it cool to just bring your muscles if you don't have the tools?



Might be the nicest thing Ive ever heard you say! 

Bottom line... sounds like they're headed in the right direction. Im excited to get up to Magic this year... try to make at least 2 mecca trips there a year. It just has it's own unique identity that I know IM not alone in my sentiment when I say - I hope it never changes.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 17, 2014)

Ski Till I Die said:


> Might be the nicest thing Ive ever heard you say!
> 
> Bottom line... sounds like they're headed in the right direction. Im excited to get up to Magic this year... try to make at least 2 mecca trips there a year. It just has it's own unique identity that I know IM not alone in my sentiment when I say - I hope it never changes.



You caught me during a weak moment


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 18, 2014)

Ok.  Just heard very little r**n & 1" new last night.  I'll take it.  What the mountain looked like Saturday am.


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## Tin (Dec 18, 2014)

Looking great. Hope to be there Saturday if the Crohns stops acting up.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 18, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Ok.  Just heard very little r**n & 1" new last night.  I'll take it.  What the mountain looked like Saturday am.



Any idea when they plan to put up an expected trail count? I always appreciate when they do that.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 18, 2014)

Nope.  I do my best to keep you all posted.  Last weekend the mountain had a ton of snow on it.  My only real concern is what this thaw/freeze will do to the surface.  Snow depth should be plenty.  The grooming "fleet" might have a hard time laying it down.  Hoping they get a good amount done.


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## Ski Till I Die (Dec 18, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Nope.  I do my best to keep you all posted.  Last weekend the mountain had a ton of snow on it.  My only real concern is what this thaw/freeze will do to the surface.  Snow depth should be plenty.  The grooming "fleet" might have a hard time laying it down.  Hoping they get a good amount done.



And you do a great job with it!


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 18, 2014)

Ski Till I Die said:


> And you do a great job with it!


  I don't.  No affiliation whatsoever w/Magic.  Just ski there, try to help when I can.  Thanks, i'll take the compliment anyway.


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## Tin (Dec 19, 2014)

RG go on a black ops mission and take all the ropes down tonight and go to every hardware store within 20 miles and buy all the rope they have. Magic will be forced to open at 100%.


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## C-Rex (Dec 19, 2014)

Tin said:


> RG go on a black ops mission and take all the ropes down tonight and go to every hardware store within 20 miles and buy all the rope they have. Magic will be forced to open at 100%.



Or you could just duck...

Anyone have any idea what conditions will be like this weekend or how much will be open?


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## Tin (Dec 19, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> Or you could just duck...
> 
> Anyone have any idea what conditions will be like this weekend or how much will be open?


 Updated the trail report. Some things are listed as groomed. Opening at 9:30.


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## xwhaler (Dec 19, 2014)

Tin said:


> Updated the trail report. Some things are listed as groomed. Opening at 9:30.



So looks to me like 1 route from the top in what they could groom plus a couple low angle greens at the bottom that are largely grassy pastures that can open with minimal snow.
I think this is what opening day normally looks like for them. Guessing the rain/re freeze just made everything too crusty on the natural trails.


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## slatham (Dec 19, 2014)

Three routes from top: Carpet, Up Your Sleeve, Trick. They obviously have made snow on Trick.

Lower mountain has Carpet, Mystery, Wand, Kinderspiel, Show Off, Hocus Pocus (and 33 1/3)

So definitely a variety of combinations/permutations and pretty good for pre-Christmas. 

Given what I saw on video and what they plan to have open I have to think that Medium, Vertigo and Wizard must be close. But there could be rock/water bar issues?

Wish I could be up there. Hope the weather cooperates from Christmas!


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 21, 2014)

Best opening day ever! Back out for more today.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 21, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Best opening day ever! Back out for more today.



So are they just roping off trails for the holiday vacation or did they really lose that much base?


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## slatham (Dec 21, 2014)

Conservative trail count yesterday due to surface conditions being a bit hard/crusty, not due to base. From what I heard many of the trails not on the report were in fact open, and thus today's report shows them. If you look at pictures on Facebook they have plenty of base. Lets hope this weeks grinch storm isn't that bad, and there's a payback storm or two that follows it. THINK SNOW!!!


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 21, 2014)

Yesterday, the West side was roped.  Witch to Black was not.  Today pretty much everything was good.  Rope to West was open. A few ropes on Magician, Slide, etc.  Everything else open & skiing really well.  Even Redline.  Bomber base.  Nothing showing.


----------



## mriceyman (Dec 21, 2014)

F@ckn rain storm is gona hurt.. Lets hope temps cool after


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## slatham (Dec 22, 2014)

Two storms possible post Grinch storm. Snow dances please so they end up being Magical.......

Thanks for report Greg. Was painful not being up there but so happy for Magic (and Tom) that the year got off to a good start.  

Lets hope that "bomber" base absorbs the r#*@ bombs this week.....


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 22, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Yesterday, the West side was roped.  Witch to Black was not.  Today pretty much everything was good.  Rope to West was open. A few ropes on Magician, Slide, etc.  Everything else open & skiing really well.  Even Redline.  Bomber base.  Nothing showing.



I thought that given the amount of snow the skiing on Saturday was miserable. I'm sorry. I just can't handle frozen crust. The top of Trick in particular was a shame. The easy terrain was no pleasure. Yes I skied Witch to Black Line and it was awful. And I didn't see a single of the hot shots tackle Red Line, although it was not roped off. Now that's pretty bad. I passed for Sunday and went elsewhere. It things actually got better on Sunday, like grooming down to Talisman I really would have liked to know, but not a word. One thing if you have a house or condo there, but otherwise, how about some honest communication about what is going on.


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## crank (Dec 22, 2014)

I skied Mt Snow in Friday and while coverage was quite good for this, or any , time of year in southern VT. it was typical frozen granular conditions.  I skied a bump run on TNF and it was hard and crunchy.  I don't see how Magic could be much different, but you have to realize if they are open it is all good!


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## marcski (Dec 23, 2014)

crank said:


> I skied Mt Snow in Friday and while coverage was quite good for this, or any , time of year in southern VT. it was typical frozen granular conditions.  I skied a bump run on TNF and it was hard and crunchy.  I don't see how Magic could be much different, but you have to realize if they are open it is all good!


There can definitely be a diffwrence in the snow between Mt. Snow and Magic:

Natural snow vs. Manmade.
Crowds vs. None
Extensive daily grooming vs. No daily grooming.


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## Savemeasammy (Dec 23, 2014)

JoeB-Z said:


> I thought that given the amount of snow the skiing on Saturday was miserable. I'm sorry. I just can't handle frozen crust. The top of Trick in particular was a shame. The easy terrain was no pleasure. Yes I skied Witch to Black Line and it was awful. And I didn't see a single of the hot shots tackle Red Line, although it was not roped off. Now that's pretty bad. I passed for Sunday and went elsewhere. It things actually got better on Sunday, like grooming down to Talisman I really would have liked to know, but not a word. One thing if you have a house or condo there, but otherwise, how about some honest communication about what is going on.



I passed on skiing Magic on Saturday because of the trail report and went to Cannon.  We skied the newly-opened natural runs at Mittersill most of the day.  Early on, it was a light crust over some workable powder.  Some turns were nice, some not so much.  The skiing improved (IMO) as the day went on and the trails got skied-in.  I wonder if this was the same case for Magic - particularly by Sunday?  FWIW, I'm sure the Magic faithful are grading on a curve!


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## Tin (Dec 23, 2014)

JoeB-Z said:


> how about some honest communication about what is going on.



Frozen and hard pack for a description isn't enough? How about "Rock f-ing hard to the point where you can't get an edge and will slide around. We suggest just staying home and not bothering skiing our mountain." That would be great for business.

IMO let it be rock hard so it has a chance against the kamikaze water droplets this week.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 23, 2014)

When did you become the forum doucher?


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## Tin (Dec 23, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> When did you become the forum doucher?



You calling someone else a douche? HA!


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## Smellytele (Dec 23, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> I passed on skiing Magic on Saturday because of the trail report and went to Cannon.  We skied the newly-opened natural runs at Mittersill most of the day.  Early on, it was a light crust over some workable powder.  Some turns were nice, some not so much.  The skiing improved (IMO) as the day went on and the trails got skied-in.  I wonder if this was the same case for Magic - particularly by Sunday?  FWIW, I'm sure the Magic faithful are grading on a curve!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app



Sunday at Cannon, Mittersil was in pretty good shape. Everything had been skied but it was still very soft and fun on the 4 runs I took over there. Maybe Magic turned out similar.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 23, 2014)

Ok, call me crazy.


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## marcski (Dec 23, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Ok, call me crazy.



See that!  The lack of crowds and abundance of natural snow makes Magic always ski better than expected.  The same can be said of Plattekill, which is a mountain from the same ilk.  This was from Saturday at Platty:


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 23, 2014)

Hijacking a Magic thread.....you will not make many friends round here with that kind of talk


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## rocks860 (Dec 23, 2014)

RustyGroomer said:


> Ok, call me crazy.



You're crazy?


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## marcski (Dec 23, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Hijacking a Magic thread.....you will not make many friends round here with that kind of talk



It wasn't a full on hi-jack... I'll give you a tangent. .


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## xwhaler (Dec 23, 2014)

I'm a bit concerned w/ how Magic will recover after this wet stuff plus the cool down...possible lift icing? If the crew is out de icing the lift I wonder how much manpower/resources will go into blowing new snow and/or grooming. 
I love Magic but they have a bit of a skeleton crew that can limit how much/how quickly they can get done coming out of these events.

I'm thinking Pico on Saturday, assess how they have recovered and if looks ok Magic Sunday.


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## rocks860 (Dec 23, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> I'm a bit concerned w/ how Magic will recover after this wet stuff plus the cool down...possible lift icing? If the crew is out de icing the lift I wonder how much manpower/resources will go into blowing new snow and/or grooming.
> I love Magic but they have a bit of a skeleton crew that can limit how much/how quickly they can get done coming out of these events.
> 
> I'm thinking Pico on Saturday, assess how they have recovered and if looks ok Magic Sunday.



I was thinking pico saturday too, do you think the conditions will be alright? I've never been there before


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## xwhaler (Dec 23, 2014)

rocks860 said:


> I was thinking pico saturday too, do you think the conditions will be alright? I've never been there before



Unsure....hard to say how they will recover but they have multiple lifts so if one goes down due to icing you have options. 
High of 41 with some sun on Sat so may even get some softening with any luck.


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## rocks860 (Dec 23, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> Unsure....hard to say how they will recover but they have multiple lifts so if one goes down due to icing you have options.
> High of 41 with some sun on Sat so may even get some softening with any luck.



Sorry for semi hijacking this but any ideas what areas might be better than others on Saturday?


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## slatham (Dec 23, 2014)

I don't think icing will be a problem for Friday - I think it will all melt by then.

Recovery via snowmaking will be slow to come online EVERYWHERE. Small window Friday night. Small window Saturday night. Its not until Sunday and beyond that it will be full-on for snowmaking. The saving grace for Friday and Saturday may be temps in mid 30's so it softens up!

The real questions are how bad is the damage, and do we get some snow in the forecast Sunday and beyond. 

SO THINK SNOW!!!!


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## Savemeasammy (Dec 26, 2014)

Any update on the conditions at Magic?  The trail report looks pretty bleak...  Is it because of the bullet proof conditions, and is it likely that more terrain opens up if temps rise at all this weekend?


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## reefer (Dec 27, 2014)

Was there yesterday. I'll put together a report and post it. May have been water bars..........? East Side was bulletproof where a groomer had been at some point................
Natty stuff was "thawing" and dangerous.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 27, 2014)

Bummer


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## jrmagic (Dec 28, 2014)

I got up here yesterday afternoon and had a few runs to end the day. I can't skeak for the morning but Saturday afternoon was softening up nicely and was a lot of fun. The West side was closed. Skied again today and things were very soft and again fun. Still no west side but whatever was open was soft and fun. ROTD was up your sleeve to vertigo. Good coverage on witch red and black so hopefully we will get some snow on top of that base soon.


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## MMP (Jan 14, 2015)

can't believe what a bunch of babies post here. Go to Stratton.


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## vonski (Jan 14, 2015)

So,  what will be open this weekend.  CT ski council days this SAT and Sunday?  Mt. snow did well with this last bit of snow.  How did Magic do?


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## gmcunni (Jan 14, 2015)

vonski said:


> Mt. snow did well with this last bit of snow.



how is that tracked? you have inside info?  i just curious.


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## vonski (Jan 14, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> how is that tracked? you have inside info?  i just curious.



Mt. snow reported 5 to 6 inches I believe, and dropped the ropes on the natural trails.


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## drjeff (Jan 14, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> how is that tracked? you have inside info?  i just curious.



14" in the last week at Mount Snow, and once the 1/2 pipe is cut in the next few days, the rebuild of Gulch and the 1st build of The Junkyard parks are done by the weekend, Mount Snow will be 100% open!


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## drjeff (Jan 14, 2015)

As for Magic, just a heads up that about 110-120 10+11 yr olds (and their parents and associated race coaches) wearing GS suits, will be there on Sunday for a Southern VT Council U12 dual GS race - once the probably 200+ people skiing in association with the race get up the hill at about 8 and get spread out a bit it shouldn't effect lines much - might be a bit of a back up at 8 though!

 Looking forward to my 1st of 3 trips as "racer Dad" to Magic this season on Sunday!


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## xwhaler (Jan 15, 2015)

Let us know if there is any evidence of guns going on either Upper Wizard or Talisman. I'd like to think they will make an effort at some point in getting those open instead of just waiting for natural snow.
As I mentioned before, the mtn skies much more interesting when there is an East Side and West side route in lean snow times.


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## jrmagic (Jan 15, 2015)

Magic got about 4 at the base  from the Sunday night Monday event. Not sure about after that. At the BLT Sunday evening Tom was talking about sending the groomer to break up all the ice on Talisman so that's a good sign. Heading up early Saturday morning so will try and report back here at end of day.


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## slatham (Jan 25, 2015)

Great news - West side opened this weekend! I guess the large number of little storms has finally added up. Hopefully this week's storm sets them up for the duration. Hopefully my schedule finally allows a Magic day.........


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 25, 2015)

slatham said:


> Great news - West side opened this weekend! I guess the large number of little storms has finally added up. Hopefully this week's storm sets them up for the duration. Hopefully my schedule finally allows a Magic day.........



It was so sweet this weekend. My legs are burning.


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## slatham (Jan 26, 2015)

It's going to be Magical. Wish I could be there Wed but should make Sat. Let's hope, like the last 2 years, we're now locked in until April!!


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 29, 2015)

who's skiing w/me tomorrow?


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## Savemeasammy (Jan 29, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> who's skiing w/me tomorrow?



Hmmm....  I heard a rumor that you know your way around the mountain a little...


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 29, 2015)

I'll be pillaging for scraps.  Hoping to find some.  Pretty sure I can.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 29, 2015)

yesterday at magic ruled. they reported 6", but it skied more like 10", sometimes more. entire place was open except for top of black line and magician. trees were in great shape. place was empty. the website for the NE ski and ride card said $35 powder days but the actual deal is $39 fridays, $10 off weekends, no powder day discounts. but i kind of guilted them into charging me $45 (the rate for some ski club in their computer system) and the obliged.


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## slatham (Jan 29, 2015)

Hope to finally make it Saturday. Maybe tonight/tomorrow's snow refreshes the powder stashes?


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## jrmagic (Jan 29, 2015)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yesterday at magic ruled. they reported 6", but it skied more like 10", sometimes more. entire place was open except for top of black line and magician. trees were in great shape. place was empty. the website for the NE ski and ride card said $35 powder days but the actual deal is $39 fridays, $10 off weekends, no powder day discounts. but i kind of guilted them into charging me $45 (the rate for some ski club in their computer system) and the obliged.



It was skiing very well last weekend before the storm so I can only imagine how good it is now. Glad you enjoyed. 

Hope you find a stash or two Rusty. I can't get there until Saturday but I'm looking forward to two days of goodness!


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## reefer (Jan 29, 2015)

May be back up Sunday. Skied great today. Plenty of scraps................


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 29, 2015)

Be there Saturday and Sunday, as usual. Brrr.


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## jrmagic (Jan 29, 2015)

reefer said:


> May be back up Sunday. Skied great today. Plenty of scraps................



Lemme know. It would be good to ski with you in something other than that crazy manky spot I took you to last spring lol


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 29, 2015)

Magic sounds like a great way to ski this weekend and avoid the brutal cold and wind to some extent.


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## Savemeasammy (Jan 30, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I'll be pillaging for scraps.  Hoping to find some.  Pretty sure I can.



Found some. 


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Found some. View attachment 15302View attachment 15303
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Those trees are way to close together for you. I'm shocked!


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 30, 2015)

Pretty stoked to go tomorrow. Seems like the only logical decision to avoid the brunt of the brutal cold. My Dad wanted to go to Pico, I told him no way in hell will you find me on the summit of any large mountain tomorrow. And also ski fresh snow in the trees / stay sheltered from the wind all day.

So there is a Ski The East qualifier there tomorrow. Do you think they'll run both chairs? Could there actually be a crowd at Magic for this?


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## rocks860 (Jan 30, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> Pretty stoked to go tomorrow. Seems like the only logical decision to avoid the brunt of the brutal cold. My Dad wanted to go to Pico, I told him no way in hell will you find me on the summit of any large mountain tomorrow. And also ski fresh snow in the trees / stay sheltered from the wind all day.
> 
> So there is a Ski The East qualifier there tomorrow. Do you think they'll run both chairs? Could there actually be a crowd at Magic for this?



Last year they had to shut down the black chair during the ski the east stop there. Apparently the state inspector said they were in violation of some regulation because of how low the chair was relative to the course... Which sucked because you couldn't watch the comp


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 30, 2015)

Anyone care to help a guy out?  Post up the pic I just loaded to my accnt.


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## chuckstah (Jan 30, 2015)

The qualifier is on Red Line?  Will the Black Chair run?  Has it all year?  I am trying to decide where to go,  and can't get these answers from the website. It would be nice if the site was updated twice a day! Love magic.


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## rocks860 (Jan 30, 2015)

Huh I thought they had it on black the last couple years


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## chuckstah (Jan 30, 2015)

Tomorrow is the Jr qualifier on Red Line according to website. The main event last year was definitely on Black Magic/Line.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 30, 2015)

Finally a pic from today. It's Good!


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## rocks860 (Jan 30, 2015)

chuckstah said:


> Tomorrow is the Jr qualifier on Red Line according to website. The main event last year was definitely on Black Magic/Line.



Ah ok that makes sense cause they shut down the black lift for it


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2015)

Anyone around tomorrow?


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## jrmagic (Jan 30, 2015)

Here's a couple Rusty


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## jrmagic (Jan 30, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Anyone around tomorrow?



I will be skiing in the afternoon if ya want to hang with an old man


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> I will be skiing in the afternoon if ya want to hang with an old man



Old man got skillz though. I'll let you know if I make it there


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## jrmagic (Jan 31, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Old man got skillz though. I'll let you know if I make it there



Damn I need some of whatever you've been smoking lol.


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## djdj (Jan 31, 2015)

I am thinking of ski at magic mountain tomorrow if any one wants a ski partner for a day


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## jrmagic (Jan 31, 2015)

djdj said:


> I am thinking of ski at magic mountain tomorrow if any one wants a ski partner for a day



let me know if you come. I'll make some runs with you. Conditions are pretty dam good.


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## djdj (Jan 31, 2015)

I will i am planning on being there around 9 to 930


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 31, 2015)

Just got home from Magic (seems like I can never handle a full day there...) -- I'll be putting up a Trip Report soon.


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## jrmagic (Jan 31, 2015)

djdj said:


> I will i am planning on being there around 9 to 930



Check your messages


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## jrmagic (Jan 31, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> Just got home from Magic (seems like I can never handle a full day there...) -- I'll be putting up a Trip Report soon.



Sorry I missed you tuna. didn't  see any blurs flying by lol was a damp good day


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## vonski (Jan 31, 2015)

Drove up for the afternoon.  I guess it was pretty cold early but was nice in the afternoon.  The place rocked.  The woods were place to be.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 31, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Sorry I missed you tuna. didn't  see any blurs flying by lol was a damp good day



I wasn't making any blurs on the mountain today. Never have at Magic. That place usually 0wns me. No exception today.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 1, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> I wasn't making any blurs on the mountain today. Never have at Magic. That place usually 0wns me. No exception today.



Very technical skiing on Saturday. Just every sort of east coast condition and you had to think all the time. It was interesting to view the freestyle competition on Red Line as the kids faced the same tough choices and I saw some falls. Plus the way down to the start gate on Witch was wind scoured to very hard snow and miserable. 

I tried it today on skis that should have edged a bit better than the 98 mm waist skis I used on Saturday (and enjoyed) but something was off with the edges and it was not fun. So an early quit to catch the Superbowl.


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## jrmagic (Feb 1, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> Very technical skiing on Saturday. Just every sort of east coast condition and you had to think all the time. It was interesting to view the freestyle competition on Red Line as the kids faced the same tough choices and I saw some falls. Plus the way down to the start gate on Witch was wind scoured to very hard snow and miserable.
> 
> I tried it today on skis that should have edged a bit better than the 98 mm waist skis I used on Saturday (and enjoyed) but something was off with the edges and it was not fun. So an early quit to catch the Superbowl.



Agree some areas got a little scratchy but IMO Saturday was an absolute blast. There were areas that gut pushed down to the very hard crust on the steeper terrain but you did t have to go far to find a pile to make a turn and cut speed. Did twilight zone when I got there mid day Saturday and then did several runs in the trees where there were almost no issues. Today was good too buy felt Saturday was better. I was on 110 skis both days. Let's meet up and do some runs! I skied a few runs with DJDJ. He's made his first two trios to magic in back to back weekends.im thinking he kind of likes it here.

Late edit... I know trick isn't the run that people come to Magic to ski but it was ridiculously good today.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 2, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Late edit... I know trick isn't the run that people come to Magic to ski but it was ridiculously good today.



Agree.  I made this my first run on Friday.  It was just the right pitch for fast powder turns, and it was in really great shape.  


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 2, 2015)

So much bitching on Magic's FB page this morning...  I, for one, will be lined up tomorrow waiting for Red to deliver me to lots of untracked deep powder - without complaining!


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## jrmagic (Feb 2, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Agree.  I made this my first run on Friday.  It was just the right pitch for fast powder turns, and it was in really great shape.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was SMH as I read through it. Not sure where the hell these people have been as the powder day policy has been in place for at least 5 years now. Wish I could make it tomorrow. It's going to be off the hook kind of good. Enjoy!!


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Feb 2, 2015)

Hmmm. I might be able to make it happen tomorrow.   Hmmmm.....


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 2, 2015)

Still snowing.


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## billski (Feb 2, 2015)

THAT.

We had a small group at Magic on Saturday too.  Spent time on the greens getting a under confident long-timer skier improving.  What a great area for beginners not to worry about getting hit.  They should promote it!


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Feb 2, 2015)

Heading up Magic tomorrow. (Heading "over" actually since it's more west than north.) Cleared with work & wife.  Skis are in car, boot bag is loaded, PBJ for the road.  Psyched.


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## Cornhead (Feb 2, 2015)

I too will be at Magic, popping my Magic cherry. Skifastr, sent you a PM, give me a buzz if you'd like to share some turns.


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## djdj (Feb 3, 2015)

I my go up this weekend


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## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2015)

We'll be there next weekend, probly sunday. Praying for the snow to keep comin! Got that 2 for 63 bucks deal so even better!


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## twinplanx (Feb 3, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> Got that 2 for 63 bucks deal so even better!


How did you score that deal?


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## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2015)

Someone posted it on here, may have actually been in this thread


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## Powda (Feb 3, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> How did you score that deal?




https://www.localflavor.com/magic-mountain?rs=dto


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## SnowRock (Feb 3, 2015)

Contemplating sneaking to vt this weekend if i can swing it and really want to hit magic for the first time. Looks like it would be a good time to hit it.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2015)

Quickie from today.


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## Smellytele (Feb 3, 2015)

May get there this year on Prez day.


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## billski (Feb 3, 2015)

Rusty, you kcus.    
You're mean too!   
Maybe Thursday.....


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## Not Sure (Feb 3, 2015)

http://magicmtn.com/back/press/document_37.pdf
Too bad there not open Mondays...would make a detour on the way home.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 3, 2015)

It seems to me that it makes more sense to open on Monday instead of Thursday no?   You could get more three day weekend skiers that way I would think.


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 3, 2015)

I miss the old save Magic videos.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2015)

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2015/02/vermont-ski-hill-radically-expands-uphill-policy *VERMONT SKI HILL RADICALLY EXPANDS UPHILL POLICY*
Magic Mountain, located in Londonderry Vermont, has radically expanded their uphill skiing policy.  From now on, it appears that skiers and snowboarders who hike the hill will be allowed a second run on the house, essentially a single ride lift ticket free of charge.  See the Mountain’s press release below: 
Magic Mountain Announces Hike One Ride One Uphill Skiing Policy
February 2, 2015 Londonderry, VT: The best uphill policy in the ski business just got better!  Magic Mountain is excited to announce a first of its kind- an expansion of our uphill skiing policy- which already sets the industry standard.  Effective immediately, any uphill skier or splitboarder who successfully climbs the 1,700 vertical feet to our summit will receive a complimentary token good for a single lift ride (limit one per day, valid only same day). Simply announce to the lift operator at the base that you intend to climb up, climb to the summit and our summit lift operator will give you a Free Turns token, which can be redeemed by the previously notified lift attendant for a free ride back up on the chairlift!
Magic Mountain is an industry leader when it comes to supporting uphill skiing.  Magic introduced one of the first official (and least restrictive) policies in 2008 and continues that tradition with today’s Hike One Ride One policy. We believe this program embodies our mountain’s community-driven values and supports our mission of offering affordable, classic Vermont skiing, snowboarding and outdoor recreation.


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## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2015)

Nice


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## MMP (Feb 4, 2015)

SnowRock said:


> Contemplating sneaking to vt this weekend if i can swing it and really want to hit magic for the first time. Looks like it would be a good time to hit it.



If you don't like Magic this weekend you should quit skiing. Mrs MMP is making me go to Stowe, and cannot believe I wont get to ski magic this weekend.


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## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> If you don't like Magic this weekend you should quit skiing. Mrs MMP is making me go to Stowe, and cannot believe I wont get to ski magic this weekend.



I am hitting Stowe on Sunday with Mrs Smelly (she would kill me if she found out I called her that) so save some goods for me.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 4, 2015)

It's probably going to be "too cold" on Sunday for my wife.  Looks like I don't need to spend most of my day on groomers...  Oh darn.  


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## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> It's probably going to be "too cold" on Sunday for my wife.  Looks like I don't need to spend most of my day on groomers...  Oh darn.  k


Is that like "too much snow"???


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## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> It seems to me that it makes more sense to open on Monday instead of Thursday no?   You could get more three day weekend skiers that way I would think.


No, they open it for me    PM me if you will be there tomorrow.


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## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> http://unofficialnetworks.com/2015/02/vermont-ski-hill-radically-expands-uphill-policy *VERMONT SKI HILL RADICALLY EXPANDS UPHILL POLICY*
> Magic Mountain, located in Londonderry Vermont, has radically expanded their uphill skiing policy.  From now on, it appears that skiers and snowboarders who hike the hill will be allowed a second run on the house, essentially a single ride lift ticket free of charge.



Does this mean they are going to start checking for lift tickets now?


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## reefer (Feb 4, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> It seems to me that it makes more sense to open on Monday instead of Thursday no?   You could get more three day weekend skiers that way I would think.



They were doing Mondays for a while. No one ever stayed..................
Switched to Thursdays recently. Thursday is much better for me, especially for $20.00!
Still no-one there.
90% certain I'll be there tomorrow chasing down billski.


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## xwhaler (Feb 4, 2015)

IMHO if Mondays and Thursdays are dead they should consider scrapping both but being more flexible about deviating from their 6" at base lodge at 8am to open for a powder day rule.
Seems there has been a lot of folks who would have gone this past Monday had they opened as a 4" powder day or whatever.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2015)

What people don't understand is the 6" falling from the sky is the easy part.  Getting personnel to work is a bit harder.  These "powder days" are sometimes difficult to get a crew.


----------



## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

reefer said:


> 90% certain I'll be there tomorrow chasing down billski.



Half friends on a half powder day :smash:
Look for:
White helmet, red jacket, crazed face, erratic skiing.


----------



## reefer (Feb 4, 2015)

billski said:


> Half friends on a half powder day :smash:
> Look for:
> White helmet, red jacket, crazed face, erratic skiing.




My boots. The jacket pretty much matches. Can't miss me.................


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2015)

I feel like Billski should ride in on an Ox or something.


----------



## MMP (Feb 4, 2015)

by golly i sure would like them to open whenever i get a day off. boy, oh boy would that be convenient. 

facebook should invent a game like farmville but with ski areas, where all the experts can run their own resort. good times.  But not a resort that loses money as part of a conglomeration; a business that makes money, and pays wages and provides benefits, and pays taxes.......


----------



## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I feel like Billski should ride in on an Ox or something.


Uh, duh, I don't get it.  Are you thinking I"m a great spiritual leader?


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 4, 2015)

reefer said:


> They were doing Mondays for a while. No one ever stayed..................
> Switched to Thursdays recently. Thursday is much better for me, especially for $20.00!
> Still no-one there.
> 90% certain I'll be there tomorrow chasing down billski.



 I never specifically asked but I was thinking moving to Thursday tl last  year was more about the timing of the Christmas/New Years week so the mountain would stay open from Christmas through the weekend following New Years Day. Perhaps they kept it because they are getting more people showing early than staying for Monday. Reefer is right though, traffic on Mondays was extremely light.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2015)

Benefits?  Wages?  Taxes?  I thought we just ski there?  What's with all the nonsensical BS?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2015)

Just having some fun Billski.  More about your heritage.  I enjoy reading your FB posts.  Really I do.


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## jrmagic (Feb 4, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Just having some fun Billski.  More about your heritage.  I enjoy reading your FB posts.  Really I do.



Still would be great if he rode in on a chariot pulled by some oxen lol


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Still would be great if he rode in on a chariot pulled by some oxen lol


  TR of the year w/no actual skiing.


----------



## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> TR of the year w/no actual skiing.



We have a "drive by trail report"  
this is a
"roll by trail report"


----------



## billski (Feb 4, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Just having some fun Billski.  More about your heritage.  I enjoy reading your FB posts.  Really I do.



Of course!  that's why I decided to come clean and show everyone the man behind the billski!!!!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Feb 4, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Benefits?  Wages?  Taxes?  I thought we just ski there?  What's with all the nonsensical BS?



Technically Magic doesn't pay taxes....too soon?


----------



## twinplanx (Feb 5, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Technically Magic doesn't pay taxes....too soon?


Because it's a House of Worship?


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

I've only skiied magic 3 times so I'm not super familiar with the mountain. Is there anything I should definitely check out or areas to look into next week with all this snow? I haven't ventured into the trees at all in the past


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 5, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> I've only skiied magic 3 times so I'm not super familiar with the mountain. Is there anything I should definitely check out or areas to look into next week with all this snow? I haven't ventured into the trees at all in the past



Hopefully no one will start blurring out off map spots here but most of the regulars will be happy to take you to said spots.  So let's start with what day/days do you plan to be here?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

Look for this guy.  He'd be glad to show you some trees Rocks860.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

I'll be up there next Sunday with my gf. She's a beginner/intermediate snowboarder but doesn't expect me to stick with her all the time.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

Keep me posted.  The girl would love to ski with yours.  She does not like skiing w/me.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Look for this guy.  He'd be glad to show you some trees Rocks860.



That actually looks like me haha, orange pants and the higlights in the jacket are the same although the jacket itself is a different color I think


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

We're going up saturday but not skiing (the whole Valentine's Day thing). We're staying at this place called a stonewall inn and having dinner in Manchester on Saturday then hitting up magic on Sunday.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Feb 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Look for this guy.  He'd be glad to show you some trees Rocks860.



This guy can get after it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

Send me a note to remind me.  I'll be there all day.  Or just say hello!  I'll be riding the Red Chair.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

How shall I find you? Just look for the trail of pixies and unicorns?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

For real?  I'll be skiing that day, this is Magic.  Just look for the guy in that pic.  Or head upstairs to the round table by the chalkboard.  Or ask a bartender to point Greg out.  Send me a PM before if you'd like.  I suck @ checking the computer ski days though.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

Ah I'm a bit slow eh and I didn't realize that was you. I'll keep an eye out or just look for the guy who looks like this


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

Slow minds fit in perfect!  Just busting a bit.  Magic is pretty easy to locate people.


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## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah I've never had to try haha, I've only skied there solo


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Feb 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Slow minds fit in perfect!  Just busting a bit.  Magic is pretty easy to locate people.



Im an idiot too... RustyGroomer, you get my message??


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 5, 2015)

Rocks I'm there next Sunday through the following Sunday send me your# in a pm and I will make sure we all hook up


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

Ski Till I Die said:


> Im an idiot too... RustyGroomer, you get my message??


  Just replied


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2015)

Sounds great thanks guys!


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 5, 2015)

Tuesday sneak..


----------



## twinplanx (Feb 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Tuesday sneak..


Awesome soundtrack! And the skiing rocked too


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## billski (Feb 5, 2015)

reefer said:


> My boots. The jacket pretty much matches. Can't miss me.................




Sorry Reefer, the snow was too deep to see your boots (no BS), but you did find me anyways.


----------



## billski (Feb 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I feel like Billski should ride in on an Ox or something.


I brought my oxen, but the management made me leave, we left too much crap around the lodge


----------



## billski (Feb 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> by golly i sure would like them to open whenever i get a day off. boy, oh boy would that be convenient.
> 
> facebook should invent a game like farmville but with ski areas, where all the experts can run their own resort. good times.  But not a resort that loses money as part of a conglomeration; a business that makes money, and pays wages and provides benefits, and pays taxes.......


  It's time for me to my my annual referral to the Brokeback Mountain Ski Area.  Perfect for families, cloistered nuns and grandparents!   http://www.skibrokeback.com/


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 5, 2015)

billski said:


> It's time for me to my my annual referral to the Brokeback Mountain Ski Area.  Perfect for families, cloistered nuns and grandparents!   http://www.skibrokeback.com/



That is some funny shite right there


----------



## bheemsoth (Feb 7, 2015)

Good day at Magic today, despite the lift lines. I understand that they're having more issues with Black, but it would have been nice to have it running today. Excellent conditions though - I could have skied Sorcerer all day.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 7, 2015)

This was going on @ Magic today.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> This was going on @ Magic today.


  Looks like beginner glades.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2015)

bheemsoth said:


> Good day at Magic today, despite the lift lines. I understand that they're having more issues with Black, but it would have been nice to have it running today. Excellent conditions though - I could have skied Sorcerer all day.


  How long were the lines?  How full were the parking lots.  It's good for them.  Maybe with enough ticket sales they can justify fixing the black lift.


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## jrmagic (Feb 7, 2015)

bheemsoth said:


> Good day at Magic today, despite the lift lines. I understand that they're having more issues with Black, but it would have been nice to have it running today. Excellent conditions though - I could have skied Sorcerer all day.



Sorcerer was great as was pretty much anything I tried


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 8, 2015)

Still going on......


----------



## Abominable (Feb 9, 2015)

Monoski?  Water skis?


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 9, 2015)

Abominable said:


> Monoski?  Water skis?



That's the mono man!! Aka makimono on this board.


----------



## Abominable (Feb 9, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> That's the mono man!! Aka makimono on this board.



Killer!

Catch you at the bar this weekend?  I'll be there Sat; possibly Sunday as well.


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 9, 2015)

Abominable said:


> Killer!
> 
> Catch you at the bar this weekend?  I'll be there Sat; possibly Sunday as well.



He absolutely kills it! I'm coming up on Sunday and staying the whole week. If you stay for Sunday let me know.


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## Abominable (Feb 9, 2015)

Will do.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 10, 2015)

Do any of you Homers know if Magic will sell next years passes this season and let people use them at the tail end of this season?  It would be a good way to strike while the iron is hot.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## C-Rex (Feb 10, 2015)

I'd certainly consider buying one!


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## jrmagic (Feb 10, 2015)

Sorry. I have no idea but it's certainly not a bad idea.  I think they may have done that once or twice in the past but I could be totally making that up lol.


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## Tin (Feb 11, 2015)

See you all Sunday!


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## twinplanx (Feb 11, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> We'll be there next weekend, probly sunday. Praying for the snow to keep comin! Got that 2 for 63 bucks deal so even better!


So after spotting this deal I snatched one up.  Has anyone used it yet? I'm just looking for some feedback as to Magics policies and the fine print. Will they let you use it for consecutive day tickets or should I find someone in the parking lot to buddy up with?


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## dlague (Feb 11, 2015)

I will be there Saturday, but totally expect it to be ridiculous!


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## Kleetus (Feb 11, 2015)

dlague said:


> I will be there Saturday, but totally expect it to be ridiculous!



As will I! If you (or anybody that will be there SAT) want to make some turns hit me up.


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## gmcunni (Feb 11, 2015)

sat feb 14 = v day.. .wife doesn't ski so i don't either :-(


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## jrmagic (Feb 11, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> So after spotting this deal I snatched one up.  Has anyone used it yet? I'm just looking for some feedback as to Magics policies and the fine print. Will they let you use it for consecutive day tickets or should I find someone in the parking lot to buddy up with?



If you want to know for sure call and ask. Otherwise you could probably hook up with someone here or worst case the parking lot.


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## jrmagic (Feb 11, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> If you want to know for sure call and ask. Otherwise you could probably hook up with someone here or worst case the parking lot.



About time lol! I'm driving up Sunday morning with my kids. I should be out for the afternoon.


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## rocks860 (Feb 11, 2015)

Same here! Looks like it's gonna be a cold one


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## billski (Feb 11, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> sat feb 14 = v day.. .wife doesn't ski so i don't either :-(


If she ain't happy, you ain't happy!


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## dlague (Feb 11, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> sat feb 14 = v day.. .wife doesn't ski so i don't either :-(



Lucky me!  My wife does and it will be a champagne toast (Moet Chandon maybe even Dom) with chocolate covered strawberries trail side or on the lift.


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## C-Rex (Feb 11, 2015)

dlague said:


> Lucky me! My wife does and it will be a champagne toast (Moet Chandon maybe even Dom) with chocolate covered strawberries trail side or on the lift.



That's the most romantic thing I've ever heard.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 11, 2015)

dlague said:


> Lucky me!  My wife does and it will be a champagne toast (Moet Chandon maybe even Dom) with chocolate covered strawberries trail side or on the lift.


  This is Magic.  PBR & a smoke?


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## dlague (Feb 11, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> This is Magic.  PBR & a smoke?



I will run that by her!


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 11, 2015)

They'll a big group of us this weekend.  Say hello.


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## Ski Till I Die (Feb 12, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> They'll a big group of us this weekend.  Say hello.



round table, corner, by the bar??


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## slatham (Feb 12, 2015)

Anyone sticking around for Monday or Tuesday or later in the week? I hope to get over a few times next week but not over the weekend. Hoping to experience the sequel to this past Monday!


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## jrmagic (Feb 12, 2015)

slatham said:


> Anyone sticking around for Monday or Tuesday or later in the week? I hope to get over a few times next week but not over the weekend. Hoping to experience the sequel to this past Monday!



I'm coming Sunday and staying the week. Would be good to make some tuens and put a face to the name though I suspect we will recognize each other.


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## Smellytele (Feb 12, 2015)

slatham said:


> Anyone sticking around for Monday or Tuesday or later in the week? I hope to get over a few times next week but not over the weekend. Hoping to experience the sequel to this past Monday!



Hoping to be there Monday...


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 12, 2015)

Ski Till I Die said:


> round table, corner, by the bar??


 Yup & yups to all of the above.  Set up for an unreal week.


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## makimono (Feb 13, 2015)

I won't make it back this weekend but will do a mid-vacation week day (Wed?) and I think a week from Saturday is ski-with-fire day!


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## slatham (Feb 13, 2015)

Jrmagic. Rusty knows me. 

While not completely unique, I have a blue Helmut with Magic sticker on one side, Sugarbush on the other.


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## rocks860 (Feb 13, 2015)

I will be there sunday, red helmet, green jacket, orange pants


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## jrmagic (Feb 13, 2015)

slatham said:


> Jrmagic. Rusty knows me.
> 
> While not completely unique, I have a blue Helmut with Magic sticker on one side, Sugarbush on the other.



And I'm the fatass  normally in the yellow shell with blue pants and fat blue skis lol


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## djdj (Feb 13, 2015)

I may go up Sunday if my back is a little batter


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## dlague (Feb 14, 2015)

Ok today magic sucks!   Too many people no lift capacity.  Hoping the lift line gets shorter.  Last run after lunch 35 minutes in lift line.


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## dlague (Feb 14, 2015)

While waiting it is beer time!


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 14, 2015)

dlague said:


> Ok today magic sucks!   Too many people no lift capacity.  Hoping the lift line gets shorter.  Last run after lunch 35 minutes in lift line.



This is good news for magic - not so great for the skiers/riders...  Hopefully Magic is making plenty of money this season so they can get black running.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xwhaler (Feb 14, 2015)

I just wonder how many 1st time Magic folks get so frustrated by the lift lines on 1 lift and don't return?  That's the worry with excessive lines there


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 14, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> I just wonder how many 1st time Magic folks get so frustrated by the lift lines on 1 lift and don't return?  That's the worry with excessive lines there



I know. I was going to bring a Magic virgin on Monday but I am having second thoughts. i don't want to scare him away from a great Mtn.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 14, 2015)

What is wrong with the Black chair?  How much $$$ to fix?


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 14, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> I just wonder how many 1st time Magic folks get so frustrated by the lift lines on 1 lift and don't return?  That's the worry with excessive lines there



Exactly.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## makimono (Feb 14, 2015)

The Magicment should set up a bar in the Red Line line...that would smooth any complaints, may not be exactly legal though haha....I bet an enterprising skier could make some big bucks with a backpack of Heady Toppers on a powder day :razz:


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## steamboat1 (Feb 14, 2015)

makimono said:


> The Magicment should set up a bar in the Red Line line...that would smooth any complaints, may not be exactly legal though haha....I bet an enterprising skier could make some big bucks with a backpack of Heady Toppers on a powder day :razz:


I think it's legal. Pico has a hot dog shack at the base of the summit lift that also sells beer. Same thing early season at the base of the North Ridge chair at K. The one at Pico has an area roped off with outdoor chairs & a fire pit.


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## rocks860 (Feb 14, 2015)

We just drove by on the way to where we're staying and saw a hoard of racers. I hope the cold tomorrow keeps some people away. I really don't want to be waiting in line that long in that cold


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## Kleetus (Feb 14, 2015)

Lines were def bad today at Magic. That being said last year with only the black chair running they were even worse (45+). Lines never exceeded 35 min for me today and it wasn't til mid-late morning that they got bad. Last year if I recall it was pretty much from the start. 

I tried to ski today to avoid the race tomorrow only to find the race was re-scheduled for today (queue sad trombone). Still was fun anyways. Hopefully the wind holds won't be too brutal at Mt. Snow tomorrow. 

Lines at the Black Line Tavern for an Après beer, however, were unacceptable...30 min just to order a pint...they were swamped though so I'll give them that. 

In Spite of all the waiting I drove away with a smile on my face...Magic with good snow always delivers. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## rocks860 (Feb 14, 2015)

Ah I didn't know they rescheduled the racing til today. We're most of the lines due to the racers or was it just packed


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## jrmagic (Feb 14, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> Ah I didn't know they rescheduled the racing til today. We're most of the lines due to the racers or was it just packed



Anytime you add 100+ racers  to the line at the same time,  it hurts the wait time. I wasn't there today but it was pretty busy last week. Add in holiday weekend with snow in the flatlands and I'm sure it was very busy. I will find out firsthand tomorrow.


----------



## slatham (Feb 14, 2015)

The racers tip the balance on an otherwise busy but manageable day with only one lift. I would expect tomorrow with cold and no race to be better. Monday and the rest of week should be very manageable if not empty. I would not be affraid to bring a first timer. Hope to be there Tuesday. Maybe Monday.. And on and off through the week.

As for Black, as I understand it there were some differences of opinion on how to address issue. They now know the way forward but not enough time for Pres week. Maybe not this season at all. Given snow and crowds I am hopeful everything - including some snowmaking issues that came up - gets addressed this summer.


----------



## Abominable (Feb 14, 2015)

It was ski on from 830 until about 10 o'clock, most we waited was 15 minutes late morning, maybe 20 after lunch. We timed it. Happy to see lots of people getting after it and we were still getting shin deep dry powder, untracked turns, within sight of the lift (woods, obv) Hoping for a refresh overnight - tomorrow should be great. 




Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## rocks860 (Feb 15, 2015)

Taken a couple runs so far it's mighty cold but the snow is sick!


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## rocks860 (Feb 15, 2015)

Goin back out in a few, green jacket and orange pants


----------



## billski (Feb 15, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> Goin back out in a few, green jacket and orange pants


  YOU GO!  Can't wait to hear about it.  Getting ready to pull the trigger on tomorrow.


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## billski (Feb 15, 2015)

Interesting to see that a MRG online ticket for tomorrow is four dollars less than Magic.


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## jrmagic (Feb 15, 2015)

billski said:


> YOU GO!  Can't wait to hear about it.  Getting ready to pull the trigger on tomorrow.



Do it Bill. It's insanely good and lines were non-existant today. Found fresh lines knee deep in the trees. Some of the "unfresh" lines are thigh deep and better.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Feb 15, 2015)

I'll be up there tomorrow. Who wants to rip some shit?


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 15, 2015)

Did about 7 or 8 runs today, the snow was amazing. Was withmy girlfriend who has only been snowboarding for about a year 
And hasn't been to many mountains in vermont so some of the time was spent convincing her she could make it down the greens at Magic. She did phenomenally once she got the confidence up but the cold drove her inside early. Spent the rest of my runs on the trails, didn't venture into the woods because I didn't really know where I was going. There was bountiful fresh snow on the sides of pretty much every trail and it seemed like barely anyone on the trails. Did venture down goniff glade. The top of witch was super sketchy but once you got onto goniff the snow was fantastic. Overall great day especially with the 2 for 63 bucks deal. Girlfriend already wants to come back to magic!


----------



## gmcunni (Feb 15, 2015)

how were lines today?


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## rocks860 (Feb 15, 2015)

Non existent


----------



## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> This is good news for magic - not so great for the skiers/riders...  Hopefully Magic is making plenty of money this season so they can get black running.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



OK  Magic redeemed it self later in the after noon when around 2:30 lines got shorter.  15 minutes or less.  But what was cool is the fact that Tom Barker was out there meeting people in line and telling them what the issue is with the Black Lift.  Apparently, it failed inspection due to the bearings on the chair that let it swing.  They got to the point where they were not swinging properly and the state considered it a safety hazard.  He said he is hoping to get the parts that are needed soon - have to be replaced on every chair.

In any case the last 1.5 hours were super fun.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 16, 2015)

dlague said:


> OK Magic redeemed it self later in the after noon when around 2:30 lines got shorter. 15 minutes or less. But what was cool is the fact that Tom Barker was out there meeting people in line and telling them what the issue is with the Black Lift. Apparently, it failed inspection due to the bearings on the chair that let it swing. They got to the point where they were not swinging properly and the state considered it a safety hazard. He said he is hoping to get the parts that are needed soon - have to be replaced on every chair.
> 
> In any case the last 1.5 hours were super fun.



That's really cool that he went out and talked to people.  I love Magic.  I hope they get the funds they need to keep the lifts in shape.  Maybe they need a gofundme site to get things going.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 16, 2015)

From the sounds of it,  they need a Louis Bacon type.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Feb 16, 2015)

JFC......why can't they be honest on their snow report?!?! Witch, Goniff, Redline, and Magician all roped.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 16, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> JFC......why can't they be honest on their snow report?!?! Witch, Goniff, Redline, and Magician all roped.



Are they actually closed or just gated?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Feb 16, 2015)

C-Rex said:


> Are they actually closed or just gated?



Gated? Nope....fully roped. Well Witch is which to makes Goniff and Redline closed.


----------



## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Gated? Nope....fully roped. Well Witch is which to makes Goniff and Red Line closed.



Witch was in tough shape but skiable IMO on Saturday.  They should just groom it to get to Goniff because Goniff was awesome.  The first section after Witch on Red Line was getting beat up from people braking so much little lower it had nice bumps.

Looks like they are taking away the top of the mountain - Sorcerer and Broomstick will provide no challenges and not sure what Twilight Zone is like.


----------



## SnowRock (Feb 16, 2015)

Made the inaugural trip sunday morning.. about a 4 am departure from NJ and was in the Magic lot by 8:45. It was cold but a great time. Ton of fresh to be found every run if you looked. Tracing back my steps.. I think we started on magician to heart on the first run and it was a pretty sick intro to the place. 

My riding buddy (and cousin) generally prefers ripping groomers but despite the work he had to put in, he loved it and we both couldn't believe how much snow we had to ourselves. Scene seemed pretty aggressive in black line as well with folks getting after it there, but we had to bounce as we decided to set-up near hunter for today to make the ride home a bit quicker.

Will definitely be back chasing some snow... especially now knowing the layout a bit more. Got into the goniff glades and the woods off one of the trails all the way west and both were fantastic. Avoided redline as the top seemed a bit too boney for me but with a bit more snow I'm sure its fun as fck.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 16, 2015)

dlague said:


> Witch was in tough shape but skiable IMO on Saturday.  They should just groom it to get to Goniff because Goniff was awesome.  The first section after Witch on Red Line was getting beat up from people braking so much little lower it had nice bumps.
> 
> Looks like they are taking away the top of the mountain - Sorcerer and Broomstick will provide no challenges and not sure what Twilight Zone is like.



Witch was really rough yesterday, super difficult to even get an edge at the top. It's a shame cause goniff was glorious


----------



## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

SnowRock said:


> Made the inaugural trip sunday morning.. about a 4 am departure from NJ and was in the Magic lot by 8:45. It was cold but a great time. Ton of fresh to be found every run if you looked. Tracing back my steps.. I think we started on magician to heart on the first run and it was a pretty sick intro to the place.
> 
> My riding buddy (and cousin) generally prefers ripping groomers but despite the work he had to put in, he loved it and we both couldn't believe how much snow we had to ourselves. Scene seemed pretty aggressive in black line as well with folks getting after it there, but we had to bounce as we decided to set-up near hunter for today to make the ride home a bit quicker.
> 
> Will definitely be back chasing some snow... especially now knowing the layout a bit more. Got into the goniff glades and the woods off one of the trails all the way west and both were fantastic. Avoided redline as the top seemed a bit too boney for me but with a bit more snow I'm sure its fun as fck.



Though those trails you mentioned were roped off?  Did you poach?


----------



## SnowRock (Feb 16, 2015)

dlague said:


> Though those trails you mentioned were roped off?  Did you poach?



Yesterday? I know we definitely hit witch to goniff and black line on different runs. Looking at my ski tracks and the map maybe it was broomstick to heart of magician for the first run versus magic? I don't recall ducking any ropes.


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## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

SnowRock said:


> Yesterday? I know we definitely hit witch to goniff and black line on different runs. Looking at my ski tracks and the map maybe it was broomstick to heart of magician for the first run versus magic? I don't recall ducking any ropes.



Oh yesterday - my bad!  Goniff was sweet Saturday.   Witch was getting bad but manageable on Saturday.   Magician was roped.


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## SnowRock (Feb 16, 2015)

dlague said:


> Oh yesterday - my bad!  Goniff was sweet Saturday.   Witch was getting bad but manageable on Saturday.   Magician was roped.


Very sweet!  ...I think it was probably broomstick then if magician was closed


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## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

SnowRock said:


> Very sweet!  ...I think it was probably broomstick then if magician was closed



Broomstick was open but pretty flat but it was a nice entrance to Heart and Black Line which both skied nice.  Some of the most fun runs were to be had there.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 17, 2015)

The snow reporting is a shit show but it didn't really matter yesterday. So much amazing skiing off trail. The woods off skiers right and left of Tali were filthy good. East side had plenty of untracked. Groomers skied really well. A lot of the other stuff was a windblown mess on the upper mountain. Heart of Magician was magical. Stay in the trees kids!


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## billski (Feb 17, 2015)

dlague said:


> Broomstick was open but pretty flat but it was a nice entrance to Heart and Black Line which both skied nice.  Some of the most fun runs were to be had there.


  You called that flat?  I suppose you can call a halfpipe flat too!    Upper Black line was too much work for me.  The only one I avoided.   Hey, where was everyone at 2pm?  It's like they cleared out the slopes.  I haven't felt so beat as I was yesterday.  I could go truly anywhere on the hill I wanted to without regret.


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## dlague (Feb 17, 2015)

billski said:


> You called that flat?  I suppose you can call a halfpipe flat too!    Upper Black line was too much work for me.  The only one I avoided.   Hey, where was everyone at 2pm?  It's like they cleared out the slopes.  I haven't felt so beat as I was yesterday.  I could go truly anywhere on the hill I wanted to without regret.



Whenever I skied that in the past, Broomstick was bumped out.  Right now you could just about straight ski it.  Yes it has a concave shape to it but - no where near a half pipe.  My wife son and I were cruising that trail!  Black Line, at the end of Broomstick, had nice powder bumps on Saturday.


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## WWF-VT (Feb 17, 2015)

What's the latest update on the Black Chair ?


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## Smellytele (Feb 17, 2015)

dlague said:


> OK  Magic redeemed it self later in the after noon when around 2:30 lines got shorter.  15 minutes or less.  But what was cool is the fact that Tom Barker was out there meeting people in line and telling them what the issue is with the Black Lift.  Apparently, it failed inspection due to the bearings on the chair that let it swing.  They got to the point where they were not swinging properly and the state considered it a safety hazard.  He said he is hoping to get the parts that are needed soon - have to be replaced on every chair.
> 
> In any case the last 1.5 hours were super fun.



black chair


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## xwhaler (Feb 17, 2015)

Once Feb vacation week comes and goes is there a real motivation to rush to get the Black running? Obviously for backup purposes would be nice but can't imagine from a demand standpoint it would be needed after this wknd.

They must have it ready to run for next Xmas week and all other holidays/busy wknds. When lines are long they lose potential repeat business because they do market themselves as never having any lines.


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## rocks860 (Feb 17, 2015)

I only made one trip over to the  east side on Sunday, there was so much snow on the other side it didn't seem worth it to be stuck in that wind. I spent a lot of time just cruising the green and Blues with powder to be found everywhere


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## dlague (Feb 17, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Once Feb vacation week comes and goes is there a real motivation to rush to get the Black running? Obviously for backup purposes would be nice but can't imagine from a demand standpoint it would be needed after this wknd.
> 
> They must have it ready to run for next Xmas week and all other holidays/busy wknds. When lines are long they lose potential repeat business because they do market themselves as never having any lines.



They will not get it running this year!  Will fix this summer!


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## dlague (Feb 17, 2015)

dlague said:


> OK  Magic redeemed it self later in the after noon when around 2:30 lines got shorter.  15 minutes or less.  But what was cool is the fact that Tom Barker was out there meeting people in line and telling them what the issue is with the* Black Lift*.  Apparently, it failed inspection due to the bearings on the chair that let it swing.  They got to the point where they were not swinging properly and the state considered it a safety hazard.  He said he is hoping to get the parts that are needed soon - have to be replaced on every chair.
> 
> In any case the last 1.5 hours were super fun.





Smellytele said:


> black chair



Yup


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## billski (Feb 17, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> I only made one trip over to the  east side on Sunday, there was so much snow on the other side it didn't seem worth it to be stuck in that wind.


  Oh, there are some sweet stashes over there.


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## Smellytele (Feb 17, 2015)

dlague said:


> Yup



I was just reposting yours because someone asked


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## djdj (Feb 18, 2015)

This sucks i can't ski for a while cuz i missed up me back last week


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## billski (Feb 18, 2015)

djdj said:


> This sucks i can't ski for a while cuz i missed up me back last week


  bummer, man.


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## yeggous (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm thinking about hitting up Magic for a day on the weekend of 3/14-15 or 3/21-22. Is there a reason to prefer one of those weekends over the other? I'll also be hitting up another mountain in the area. What's the recommendation? I am thinking Bromley since I have never been there. I'm also looking for a place to stay in the area. Are there any ski clubs in the area that take guests?


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## rocks860 (Feb 20, 2015)

This may not be what you're looking for but we stayed last weekend at this place called a stonewall inn. Very unique place, whole place is heated by solar and wood stoves and super crazy architecture.


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## billski (Feb 20, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'm thinking about hitting up Magic for a day on the weekend of 3/14-15 or 3/21-22. Is there a reason to prefer one of those weekends over the other? I'll also be hitting up another mountain in the area. What's the recommendation? I am thinking Bromley since I have never been there. I'm also looking for a place to stay in the area. Are there any ski clubs in the area that take guests?


  Manchester Ski Club has a house in Ludlow.  They are looking for members, so they are open to having non members check them out.  You'd need a sponsor, so just write to them.    Regarding March at Magic, in my experience it won't make much of a difference, especially this year when there is so much base.

http://www.manchesterskiclub.org/


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## Powda (Feb 20, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'm thinking about hitting up Magic for a day on the weekend of 3/14-15 or 3/21-22. Is there a reason to prefer one of those weekends over the other? I'll also be hitting up another mountain in the area. What's the recommendation? I am thinking Bromley since I have never been there. I'm also looking for a place to stay in the area. Are there any ski clubs in the area that take guests?



Living Social has a deal for $199 on weekends at Upper Pass Lodge. Right at Magic. 
Includes breakfast, 2 glasses of wine, cheese platter and bagged lunches. 
Hell of a deal IMO


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## rocks860 (Feb 20, 2015)

billski said:


> Manchester Ski Club has a house in Ludlow.  They are looking for members, so they are open to having non members check them out.  You'd need a sponsor, so just write to them.    Regarding March at Magic, in my experience it won't make much of a difference, especially this year when there is so much base.
> 
> http://www.manchesterskiclub.org/



Huh, I didn't know about this. I'll have to check this out!


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## yeggous (Feb 20, 2015)

Powda said:


> Living Social has a deal for $199 on weekends at Upper Pass Lodge. Right at Magic.
> Includes breakfast, 2 glasses of wine, cheese platter and bagged lunches.
> Hell of a deal IMO



That's the deal! I clicked through and got it for $170. Thank you for the tip!


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## mriceyman (Feb 21, 2015)

Here now and red chair has stopped.. Not good


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## soposkier (Feb 21, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Here now and red chair has stopped.. Not good
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Damn, was hoping to make it there tomorrow, lets hope its only a temporary problem.


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## jrmagic (Feb 21, 2015)

Was a hydraulic line. Lift is running with people on it now.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 21, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Here now and red chair has stopped.. Not good


In the middle of the day on a busy Sat. with the only lift to the summit down for an hour or more (only lift period for that matter) is not good.


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## billski (Feb 21, 2015)

I would have thought from last year's breakdown that they would have fixed the black post-haste.  From December 19th, last update:   

[h=3]Update 12-19
[/h]

New and Good Results in the Black Chair Arena


Two weeks ago I told you how bad the situation was, then last week I said were making progress.  Thursday we drove up to Montpelier and presented progress that has been made on both the rub rail and the developed action list targeting the remaining issues. The final part of presentation addressed the next steps.  I said Magic would (1) complete the ‘action list’; (2) continue the daily and biweekly inspections that were done last year.  I went on to recommend that (3) the Tramway Board revoke their January order and (4) revert to the mode where their lift inspector in in control over when the lift is ready to operate.  Our lift Inspector agreed, on condition that our Professional Engineer inspects and approves of the work that completes the Action List.  Given those conditions the Vermont 


Tramway Board of Directors voted to revoke the Jan 17[SUP]th[/SUP] order. That for us is a big deal.  We were in the situation where we could do all the work and still not have a Black Lift.  Today’s vote means that if we do the work the lift will be approved for future usage.  There was limited talk about replacing the Black Lift; we want to do that if it can be made affordable, but no commitments were made.  I know we can do the required work by the end of January, and possible two weeks earlier if we can just fund the required staff to do the work.  That effort is being currently addressed.
...
Tom



http://skimagicvt.blogspot.com/


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## jrmagic (Feb 21, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> In the middle of the day on a busy Sat. with the only lift to the summit down for an hour or more (only lift period for that matter) is not good.



True but shit does happen. Turned out to be an O-ring. Plenty of people went back up and it was a great afternoon ending.


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## makimono (Feb 21, 2015)

heading up in the am...counting on all you rippers partying hard tonight with the torchlight festivities and being too hung over to beat me to first chair haha :beer:


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 21, 2015)

How were lines today other than when it was being fixed?


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## jrmagic (Feb 21, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> How were lines today other than when it was being fixed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Longest I waited was 3-4 minutes at 12:15ish which bought me a long look around pole 8 during the downtime. The new snow started feeling really good underfoot by end of day.


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## Smellytele (Feb 21, 2015)

Got there about 8:45. No lines until 11:00.Just came back out for a quick lunch and waited in line for about 6=7 minutes. When it died I was standing with my youngest son with the chair coming about to get on. Ended up walking about a 1/3 of the way up with 2 of my kids and skied the disappearing act glades. Then had a beer and it was running again and snowing. Skied to the lift closed with no lines at all. Trails were in great shape and still found a little fresh powder on the west side.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 21, 2015)

After the intermission it was ski on. And the skiing is wonderful. The mix of really developed moguls on Twilight, rest runs on Talisman! and Sorceror! (The grooming there is almost to good). Then to the woods. Magician is really good also (tricky in one spot). Broomstick is getting to be such a weird halfpipe I sideslip a lot of it. Tomorrow will be low crowds and all you can eat I think.


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## mriceyman (Feb 21, 2015)

Thankfully i was in the bar when it was down. Did get a great 2 hours in after the chair came back. I wish i was in skiing shape because that mountain kicked my ass


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## makimono (Feb 22, 2015)

Just a redonkulous day! cool to make turns with the infamous jrmagic and the elusive orange gondola


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## zoomzoom (Feb 23, 2015)

am planning on a magic trip this thursday, but am wondering if the lift downtime last saturday was a huge pain?  i mean, did folks have to sit while the repair was made, or did staff run the folks off on elec right away then fix the ol' girl.


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## mriceyman (Feb 23, 2015)

It was down for about an hour and change. We got lunch and had a couple extra drinks then got back to it in the afternoon. Got a solid 2 hours in. It sounds like it ran ok on sunday so you should be ok


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 23, 2015)

A few pics from an unreal stretch.


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## zoomzoom (Feb 23, 2015)

still wondering:  "did folks have to sit while the repair was made, or did staff run the folks off on elec right away then fix the ol' girl".


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## jrmagic (Feb 23, 2015)

oompaloompa said:


> still wondering:  "did folks have to sit while the repair was made, or did staff run the folks off on elec right away then fix the ol' girl".



Repair was made after offloading using the backup motor.


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## zoomzoom (Feb 23, 2015)

ah, very cool.  many thx!


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## legalskier (Feb 23, 2015)

Some more love for Magic, from All Mountain Mamas:
http://allmountainmamas.skivermont.com/magic-mountain-southern-vermont/


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for posting that, I read it over the weekend.  Great write up.


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## vonski (Feb 24, 2015)

I don't agree with the bit on the food. I like the food. Probably the one place  I don't bring my lunch.  Prices are reasonable.!  and food is good!


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## vonski (Feb 24, 2015)

SAturday was great this last weekend.  I was beat by the time chair lift broke since my friend and I started at 830 and made laps till 11 when line built up but even then only 6 minute wait to maybe 10 max.


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## gmcunni (Feb 24, 2015)

vonski said:


> I like the food. Probably the one place  I don't bring my lunch.  Prices are reasonable.!  and food is good!



having not eaten (or skied) there this year my comment could be outdated but... i have to agree with mama... last season the food was sub-par.  i don't recall it being pricey but the memory of how bad it was has stuck with me.  that said, next time i'm there, which is hopefully soon, i will buy lunch again.


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## vonski (Feb 24, 2015)

I ate breakfast sandwich sausage.   6 bucks but good.  and soup 4 bucks for lunch.  All  good!


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## djdj (Feb 24, 2015)

How is the skiing there planning on going up there for a day this weekend


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## soposkier (Feb 24, 2015)

djdj said:


> How is the skiing there planning on going up there for a day this weekend



Was excellent on sunday


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## medfordmike (Feb 24, 2015)

Do Magic regulars know if there is anything that will make the mountain extra busy on Saturday?  I have not been to Magic and I will be in Southern VT area Saturday morning.  At this point in the season my ski budget is getting low so if it is not a good weekend I may just hit my home mountain and get some more use out of my pass.


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## billski (Feb 24, 2015)

medfordmike said:


> Do Magic regulars know if there is anything that will make the mountain extra busy on Saturday?  I have not been to Magic and I will be in Southern VT area Saturday morning.  At this point in the season my ski budget is getting low so if it is not a good weekend I may just hit my home mountain and get some more use out of my pass.


  IMO, from here on out, any day is a good day.  Usually their season ends sooner due to lower base depth, but not this year.  http://www.wunderground.com/ski/vt/

In terms of crowds, I wouldn't worry at all.  I'm coming back a couple more times, and the "crowd factor" does not even factor into my decision.   This Saturday should be just great.   Check their web site for events.  Most of the events seem to just keep people in the bar!


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## amf (Feb 25, 2015)

billski said:


> In terms of crowds, I wouldn't worry at all.  I'm coming back a couple more times, and the "crowd factor" does not even factor into my decision.


For the poster concerned with crowds, last Saturday (before ol' Red went down) had some of the longest lines I've seen at Magic. There was even a tour bus in the parking lot! At its worst it never approached a good weekend line at any of the major ski areas. Even when the line manager wandered off folks still managed the line on their own.


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## soposkier (Feb 26, 2015)

Ski the East Tour is there this weekend.  Too bad there is no lift viewing as it is under the black chair. Good thiinking on it will make the bar more crowded, but hopefully wont have a drastic effect on lines.


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## vonski (Feb 26, 2015)

From Todays snow report.  "Looking forward to the weekend Saturday we host the Ski The East Freeride Tour and our first USASA race to come to Magic! The mountain will be running with the top skiers and snowboarders in New England all out to compete on some the most challenging terrain"     .

So are there two races Saturday?  not Sure what a USASA race is.   Will that close other trails?   Increase the crowds with two races or is that just one race?


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## jrmagic (Feb 26, 2015)

It sounds like it's 2 distinct races. Other than when they both queue up I wouldn't expect long lines. Ski the East will be on black magic and part of blackline. I would imagine the USASA race would be on Talisman.


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## vonski (Feb 26, 2015)

Thanks jr. magic.   That is what I was figuring.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 26, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> It sounds like it's 2 distinct races. Other than when they both queue up I wouldn't expect long lines. Ski the East will be on black magic and part of blackline. I would imagine the USASA race would be on Talisman.



I think USASA is snowboard race event. So most likely Show Off closed rather than Tali, which is good.


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## vonski (Feb 26, 2015)

02/28/2015                                                     Slalom  3                                                     
Slalom  Southern Vermont Series                                                    Magic Mtn 


 
02/28/2015                                                     Giant Slalom  3                                                     
Giant Slalom  Southern Vermont Series                                                    Magic Mtn
 


I found the USASA site. it is www.usasa.org  found he above listing in the events schedule.  So how many snowboarders that do GATES!  I guess there is a market. 

So it could be on Talisman?!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 26, 2015)

Confirmed w/ mtn that it's Show Off not Talisman for USASA race


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## vonski (Feb 26, 2015)

Nice,  Did ya ask how may racers are preregistered?   May make that call 2morrow!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 26, 2015)

Did not. But I think anywhere this weekend in SoVT is going to be busy with the great conditions and relatively reasonable temps. Rather be at Magic where good snow lasts longer...


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## C-Rex (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm trying to make the call as well.  I have a voucher for Magic but I can't decide if I want to save it for a powder day or use it tomorrow.  Probably go somewhere else since I'll have an intermediate with me that won't like to hit the good stuff.


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## MMP (Feb 27, 2015)

You're better of skiing crowded, skied-off intermediate terrain somewhere else than Magics intermediate terrain? 

Will you be skiing with your friend? If so what's wrong with medium, up your sleeve, mystery, wizard, and with the grooming and abundance of snow, sorcerer and talisman are skiing like an intermediate. Meaning perfectly groomed.  

No flags yet though.


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## vonski (Feb 27, 2015)

C-Rex  I planning on Magic,  my friend I ski with handles all the woods but is slow.  I know he will be tired by Lunch.  Bring your intermediate.  and we can hook up for some of the steeps!  I will look for your coat!


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## vonski (Mar 1, 2015)

Well lines existed, about 10 mins  a bit more at some times.  But mountain skied great!


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## The Sneak (Mar 1, 2015)

Holy crap the unmarked beyond s.o. Hans is nuts. Too nuts for me though I think the steep and tight entrance psyched me out


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> snip, sorcerer and talisman are skiing like an intermediate. Meaning perfectly groomed.
> .



I thought this also- the steepest intermediates in Vermont. 

What will this SnoCross snowmobile thing do to the skiing this weekend? At best it has to be quite noisy. How can you isolate snowmobiles going to many classes per day from the skiers?


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## vonski (Mar 4, 2015)

I just checked the snocross website.  They sell admission tickets.  So, it has to be in an isolated area.  My guess is the beginner area to the right, but who knows?    I just hope they keep the lower lot for the skiers.  Cause the check in is like 7 am or 730 for the snowmobilers.  I bet the parking and lodge might be busy but hopefully not the lift line so much!


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 4, 2015)

The Sneak said:


> Holy crap the unmarked beyond s.o. Hans is nuts. Too nuts for me though I think the steep and tight entrance psyched me out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think you mean Broomstick...


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## skithetrees (Mar 4, 2015)

vonski said:


> I just checked the snocross website.  They sell admission tickets.  So, it has to be in an isolated area.  My guess is the beginner area to the right, but who knows?    I just hope they keep the lower lot for the skiers.  Cause the check in is like 7 am or 730 for the snowmobilers.  I bet the parking and lodge might be busy but hopefully not the lift line so much!



Will be on the beginner hill. Only ski ticket purchasers will be allowed to park in the lot. Race viewers will be bussed from the school lot in town.


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## skithetrees (Mar 4, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Will be on the beginner hill. Only ski ticket purchasers will be allowed to park in the lot. Race viewers will be bussed from the school lot in town.



Edit - former beginner hill.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 4, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think you mean Broomstick...


I think he means west of Hans in the trees. Getting into Hans is a bit of an adventure. They groom Broomstick when it gets too crazy. Hans is just mostly a bit crazy. On Sunday last I decided the trip wasn't worth the fare for a second run. I'm a bit of an elephant in the woods so no thanks to west of Hans. I turned the corner on Broomstick with a bit of speed on Sunday and had a bit of a Nantucket sleigh ride as I couldn't bleed off any speed all the way down the chute!


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 4, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> I think he means west of Hans in the trees. Getting into Hans is a bit of an adventure. They groom Broomstick when it gets too crazy. Hans is just mostly a bit crazy. On Sunday last I decided the trip wasn't worth the fare for a second run. I'm a bit of an elephant in the woods so no thanks to west of Hans. I turned the corner on Broomstick with a bit of speed on Sunday and had a bit of a Nantucket sleigh ride as I couldn't bleed off any speed all the way down the chute!



Hmm I didn't find the trees that challenging over that way. There is a very tight and challenging chute next to Broomstick though


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## C-Rex (Mar 5, 2015)

vonski said:


> C-Rex  I planning on Magic,  my friend I ski with handles all the woods but is slow.  I know he will be tired by Lunch.  Bring your intermediate.  and we can hook up for some of the steeps!  I will look for your coat!



I just saw this today.  I ended up going to Plattekill on Sunday and Berkshire East on Monday.  I'm thinking about Magic for this Saturday but I'm wondering how this little warm-up affected the conditions. 

Anyone know how the latest weather has affected the snow up there?


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 6, 2015)

Our Canadian friend Guy was back last weekend for his birthday.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 6, 2015)

vonski said:


> I just checked the snocross website.  They sell admission tickets.  So, it has to be in an isolated area.  My guess is the beginner area to the right, but who knows?    I just hope they keep the lower lot for the skiers.  Cause the check in is like 7 am or 730 for the snowmobilers.  I bet the parking and lodge might be busy but hopefully not the lift line so much!



Email from Magic says Lot A for skiers plus old Dostal's parking lot. The big Lot B will be for the snowmobile racers. Skier parking will now be a zoo, so get there early if you want a spot. 

Also nice new vid from Guy.


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## rocks860 (Mar 6, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Our Canadian friend Guy was back last weekend for his birthday.



The beginning of that video looks like some kind of satanic ritual


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## makimono (Mar 6, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Our Canadian friend Guy was back last weekend for his birthday.



So much awesome!~


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## skifree (Mar 9, 2015)

magic open this thurs march 12th?


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 9, 2015)

skifree said:


> magic open this thurs march 12th?


  YES, ski$20


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## skifree (Mar 9, 2015)

thank you. we should have a group of 8+ .


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 9, 2015)

Ski$160.  Nice.  Enjoy!


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## MMP (Mar 9, 2015)

Be sure to check out the flags


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## Euler (Mar 9, 2015)

What are your thoughts about what the surface will be like Thursdday.  Tues-Weds will be in the 40s and sunny, then Thursday back below freezing all day.

Will Thursday likely be a "Groomers only"day?  Or does being closed on Tues-Weds make it less of an issue since no one will be skiing on Tues/Weds?


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## prsboogie (Mar 15, 2015)

Got a $45 Magic Groupon voucher I'm not going to get to use, $35 and its yours!!


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## drjeff (Mar 15, 2015)

The flags looked GOOD today!

I have to admit, driving to Magic this AM, after some decent amounts of warm and wet yesterday, and temps below freezing on the ride over, I was expecting much, BUT Magic's 1 yellow Bombardier 350 groomer DELIVERED some GREAT snow when the Red opened at 8:30 this AM.  Skiing with my friends, who also had kids racing at Magic today, on our 2nd run of the day were #'s 2-6 down an absolutely sublime Talisman - it was like skiing perfect corn, except it was below freezing!  Two of my group, who are members at The Hermitage, said it was the "best" groomer of the year for them (and today was roughly their 50th day this season and one of them regularly finishes in the top 10 in any tele race he enters!

After my son's race QUICKLY finished (Magic runs a race as good, if not better than anyone!!) we quickly left to head over to Bromley, where my daughter was in a SLOWLY run race today - much firmer, scratchier conditions just 15 minutes down the road!!

Magic delivered on a challenging day from a mountain ops perspective!  Can't wait to head back next Sunday when my daughter has a race there!


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## jrmagic (Mar 16, 2015)

Talisman was so good I hit it at least 4 ot 5 times. Trick also skied very well rven kste in thr day and that got a lot of traffic. Overall it was much better than I was expecting.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 17, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Talisman was so good I hit it at least 4 ot 5 times. Trick also skied very well rven kste in thr day and that got a lot of traffic. Overall it was much better than I was expecting.



Agreed. Got on the lift at 12:45. Trick warmup. Talisman, Sorceror was ungroomed, Black Line (cheated and zig-zagged to Magician and back as it was unpleasant), 5 more runs on Talisman and quit before last chair. Talisman was really nice. The base is really consistent and holds an edge everywhere. You could just play with every type of turn, really bomb it, whatever you wanted.


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## slatham (Mar 17, 2015)

I skied Magic on Friday and was extremely impressed with the conditions on the groomers. I had tried a couple of runs at Bromley and given the warmth and sun it must have gotten too wet and then froze up pretty good so I bailed. I gave Magic a try just to compare/contrast and was glad I did. They obviously had better luck with exposure and lower skier traffic (offsetting lower elevation) as the groomers were very edgeable. Tali was tops, but Trick, Show Off, Kinderspiel, Up Your Sleeve - even Magic Carpet were just a GS skiers dream. I actually wished they had groomed more!!!! Magic has done a great job grooming this winter and will hopefully will lose the "they never groom" reputation. 

Now if I could just get one more pow day.........


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 17, 2015)

slatham said:


> I skied Magic on Friday and was extremely impressed with the conditions on the groomers. I had tried a couple of runs at Bromley and given the warmth and sun it must have gotten too wet and then froze up pretty good so I bailed. I gave Magic a try just to compare/contrast and was glad I did. They obviously had better luck with exposure and lower skier traffic (offsetting lower elevation) as the groomers were very edgeable. Tali was tops, but Trick, Show Off, Kinderspiel, Up Your Sleeve - even Magic Carpet were just a GS skiers dream. I actually wished they had groomed more!!!! Magic has done a great job grooming this winter and will hopefully will lose the "they never groom" reputation.



Or they just groom better.  Let's give credit where credit is due this year.  Magic has done an unbelievable job grooming this year.


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## yeggous (Mar 17, 2015)

The wife and I will definitely be there on Saturday. We're considering our options for Sunday. We could do another day at Magic, but are leaning toward somewhere else nearby for the sake of variety. Let's hear the suggestions. We've been to Okemo and Stratton before. Wife liked Stratton more than Okemo, but we were smart and worked just the sun bowl side. How is Bromley?

Any other suggestions? Keep in mind that we typically ski northern New Hampshire so we don't do well with crowds or Joey from New Jersey.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 17, 2015)

I like Bromely as a whole but get pretty bored skiing there.  Nice mountain, seems to be run very well etc.  I just find myself done by noon.  See you Saturday.  If around Saturday night, check out the band in the lodge.  My friends daughter & her band are playing.  Should be interesting.  They are all about 14 yrs old.


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## Savemeasammy (Mar 17, 2015)

Magic is my favorite south of the mad river valley, how ever I did enjoy my day at Bromley.  I was there for some fresh snow, so the skiing was really sweet.  There is a family vibe that we enjoyed, and the DB factor was low.  I don't see why you couldn't enjoy it for a day. 


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## deadheadskier (Mar 17, 2015)

I get the impression that Bromley is kind of VTs Cranmore.


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## yeggous (Mar 17, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I get the impression that Bromley is kind of VTs Cranmore.



Check. That analogy helps tremendously. That makes Okemo their Bretton Woods, just with more people and less glades. And Stratton their Loon, lift line for the gondola and all.


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## slatham (Mar 17, 2015)

Yeggous, Given your comments on crowds and crowd type you will be better off at Bromley than all the local "resorts". And though I appreciate Rusty's comments on variety, assuming all terrain is available/skiing welll, there is more variety than one would expect looking at the trail map (just not the extreme and trees of a Magic). Would be a worthwhile day.

Rusty, good point on Magic grooming - it's been top notch this winter. But Bromley knows a thing or two about grooming so I think the deciding factors were exposure and low skier traffic keeping the raw product in better shape at Magic for the groomers to then make perfect. But just think about comparing Magic grooming to Bromley grooming - never would have happend a few years back. They've come a long way! Hope all is well Greg.


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## mishka (Mar 17, 2015)

discussion on subject of Magic and grooming ..... especially quality grooming and Magic in the same sentence makes me feel sad.


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## slatham (Mar 18, 2015)

Mishima, lots of people like groomed terrain, even those (like me) who love the steeps, bumps and trees. And there are days in VT where if you don't groom you really can't ski. So they need to groom to be a more attractive alternative for more people more often. I'll bet you'd be sader if they failed and couldn't open for the season.


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## mishka (Mar 18, 2015)

your correct in many way but  magic just like MRG is not loved for its grooming.



> there are days in VT where if you don't groom you really can't ski


 and I don't ski. If ONLY grooming trails skiable there is no point in my opinion to drive 3 plus hours


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## dlague (Mar 18, 2015)

slatham said:


> Mishima, lots of people like groomed terrain, even those (like me) who love the steeps, bumps and trees. And there are days in VT where if you don't groom you really can't ski. So they need to groom to be a more attractive alternative for more people more often. I'll bet you'd be sader if they failed and couldn't open for the season.



Agree with this post, I take what the mountain gives me which is preceded by going some place that will make that possible.  Skiing refrozen bumps or refrozen trees does not interest me so high speed groomers works!  Option of not skiing vs skiing - well not skiing is not generally an option, so I take what the mountain gives me.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2015)

same.  make the best of what the conditions will be. 

And if I were a Southern VT skier and Magic didn't have a few decent groomers, I'd likely head to one of their competitors for the day.  Even MRG will groom things a bit to have something to offer on a lousy natural surface day.


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## MMP (Mar 18, 2015)

mishka said:


> your correct in many way but  magic just like MRG is not loved for its grooming.
> 
> and I don't ski. If ONLY grooming trails skiable there is no point in my opinion to drive 3 plus hours




completely disagree with you. Mad and Magic are both known for the groomers. Not everyone is hardcore, or is born being able to ski Lynx, Red Line or Catamount Bowl. 

Magic Carpet, Bunny, Chipmunk, Snail, Showoff, etc. are all trails that people learn to ski on. SKI THEM IF YOU CAN! 

That both of these areas leave a large portion ungroomed on powder days (with a swipe of the groomer for non-pow skiers and bailouts) before necessity requires they be groomed is a bonus for a guy like you.

The reputation that magic isn't known for awesome intermediate skiing and groomed surfaces does more to hurt them than a guy that only skis if theres fresh because his passion doesn't run deep enough for a 6 hour round trip to rip groomers in the fresh air with your friends and/or family does to help.

Limited uphill capacity is what makes these areas the experience they are IMO.


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## Abominable (Mar 18, 2015)

Oh my goodness after a hard run through the trees off Gonff or wherever I _love_ flying down a groomed show off.  Nice to let the legs rest and just carve at speed.

For me at Magic my runs always seem divided in half, with a top run off difficult trees / moguls / or maybe just cruising then a choice for a bottom half of cruising, low angle trees or maybe charge the Green Line.  Top to bottom trees are exhausting!

Magic's grooming has been great - especially coupled with the fact that they got a ton of snow this year and more importantly that they have what, one tenth (one 20th?  less?) of the traffic that a Bromley or Berk East (esp. w/ night skiing) over the course of a week?  Less traffic makes such a huge difference in how things hold up over the course of a day and season.

Yeggous, you should go to Bromley if you've never been, it's a great place.  In fact, if I was up there this weekend I might do Bromley on Sat and enjoy all the festivities (I think this weekend is spring fest, outdoor bbq, pond skimming, etc.) then hit Magic on Sunday for what should be at least a couple inches of fresh in the woods.

Edit - what's the over / under on last day this year at Magic?


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## slatham (Mar 18, 2015)

I think they will have snow on the trails where they made snow through the April 11th weekend . Whether they have the demand is another question. There would have to be some very cooperative weather to get to the 18th (and poor weather not make 11th)


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## jrmagic (Mar 18, 2015)

Based on current snow depths and below average Temps persisting I'm thinking there will be more skiable trails than just those they blew on come the week after Easter. People not coming and buying tickets seems like it will do them in before lack of snow.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Based on current snow depths and below average Temps persisting I'm thinking there will be more skiable trails than just those they blew on come the week after Easter. People not coming and buying tickets seems like it will do them in before lack of snow.




They'll be 80-90 10-12 year olds in their GS suits and associated parents and coaches on showoff this Sunday adding to Magic's ticket and F&B revenue!  Since it's the last race of the season for many of the kids, expect more than a few parents to "celebrate" the end of constant ski tuning and waxing and running off to many mountains every weekend, in the BLT after the 2nd run of race #2 is done (there's going to be both an AM and a PM 2 run dual GS race on Sunday) :beer:


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 18, 2015)

Magic unlikely to go past the 1st weekend in April as traffic will be small so it's a money loser. Right now they aren't even selling tickets on liftopia after March.


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## Tin (Mar 18, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Based on current snow depths and below average Temps persisting I'm thinking there will be more skiable trails than just those they blew on come the week after Easter. People not coming and buying tickets seems like it will do them in before lack of snow.




Any idea how ticket sales have been compared to previous years? I know only having Red running makes it seem like there are more people but all in all it sounds like they have been doing quite well given the natural stuff.


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## Abominable (Mar 19, 2015)

Easter weekend would be fun.


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## yeggous (Mar 20, 2015)

I noticed the snow report shows the down several trails today. :-/


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## makimono (Mar 20, 2015)

They've actually had Witch/Goniff/Red Line roped closed quite a bit this year even though it's been listed open on the report...so at least they're being honest about it. Really not sure why they've been closed earlier other than that the top part of Witch is usually boilerplate. 

Haven't been to Magic in a couple weeks and it may be a couple more before I can get back out on skis...screwed up my lower back lapping 10th mountain moguls at Wachusett the other day...hope to recover well enough for Spring Fling if possible!


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## twinplanx (Mar 20, 2015)

Anyone interested in a certificate for 2 tickets to Magic? I bought one that I probably won't be able to use. I payed 63 bucks...


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## Tin (Mar 21, 2015)

makimono said:


> They've actually had Witch/Goniff/Red Line roped closed quite a bit this year even though it's been listed open on the report...so at least they're being honest about it. Really not sure why they've been closed earlier other than that the top part of Witch is usually boilerplate.




Have to access them through woods? :-D


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## makimono (Mar 21, 2015)

haha you probably could, I just duck the rope like everyone else and always seem to find a skiable line down Witch on the extreme right under the branches. Witch is a pretty critical link of a trail though, it accesses a ton of stuff and I've seen it roped this year even on a powder day with 8" overnight...its weird and unnecessary. :blink: Someone's gotta get that head ski patrol guy baked or laid or something. I'll make him some brownies.


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## Tin (Mar 21, 2015)

A Craigslist hooker might be cheaper than making special brownies. 

While ducking it last year a few of us got yelled at by a woman on ski patrol asking if we were stupid. Witch-Goniff had more snow on them than most other runs on the mountain. I can understand roping Magician because of the rocks at times but they really need to take on a different approach when it comes to roping stuff off or just have most of it roped with "Caution - Thin Cover" warnings.


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## Hado226 (Mar 21, 2015)

I'm a sometime patroller at magic. I've tried to replace the ropes with thin cover or ice warning placards, like we often use at Berkshire East, but can't win that battle.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 21, 2015)

Hado226 said:


> I'm a sometime patroller at magic. I've tried to replace the ropes with thin cover or ice warning placards, like we often use at Berkshire East, but can't win that battle.



What's the opposition?

Someone made mention that the head of patrol doesn't even ski....that seems like the first problem


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## vonski (Mar 21, 2015)

I have noticed that Magician and Witch etc. have been open Thursday and Fridays per the report to find them closed on Saturday. I was talking with a guy on the lift that said he was standing at Magician wondering why it was closed.  A patroller told him to duck the rope as they have been closing it to keep the ill advised off it on weekends.   So, maybe the increased traffic there this year with more intermediates is making them from wanting to have to deal with the intermediates in over their heads.   I not sure, but there was a couple times I almost did poach Magician.   Did take woods into Goniff and Twilight a couple times to avoid the ropes.


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## vonski (Mar 21, 2015)

Going tomorrow hoping the clipper drops some snow not some NCP,  but getting my edges sharpened for 2morrow for sure!  Groomers should be nice and fast.


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## jrmagic (Mar 21, 2015)

Yeah definitely looking like it will be firm tomorrow. The sun was out for several hours this morning softening things up a bit. A lot in some spots. Really beatific day to ski.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 21, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Someone made mention that the head of patrol doesn't even ski....that seems like the first problem



If that's really true, then he needs the "Donald Trump" treatment!


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## yeggous (Mar 21, 2015)

They dropped the rope on Witch and Broom Handle around 2pm after things had softened up. That saved the day and my opinion of Magic.

I had fun, but doubt that I will rush back given that I have better options after weighing the drive time, price point, and lift speed.


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## prsboogie (Mar 21, 2015)

https://instagram.com/p/0fu8ieGKRG/

Apparently ON3P is demoing at Magic tomorrow


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 21, 2015)

yeggous said:


> They dropped the rope on Witch and Broom Handle around 2pm after things had softened up. That saved the day and my opinion of Magic.
> 
> I had fun, but doubt that I will rush back given that I have better options after weighing the drive time, price point, and lift speed.
> 
> ...



Oh come on. Are you saying after hitting the groomed runs (like Talisman) for 12 runs or so before 2 PM your legs were not thrashed by Witch, Magician, Goniff, Black Line and ok I poached Twilight Zone once they opened? I could have had one more run on Black Line's goodness but I was so thrashed I called it quits. Lift speed- that is recovery time. I bet up until 2 PM Talisman was offering as nice groomed steep skiing as anywhere in VT. Magic was just plain ripping today.

Lift speed is silly. With almost no lines it was close to three runs, up and down, per hour today.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 21, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> Lift speed- that is recovery time.
> 
> Lift speed is silly. With almost no lines it was close to three runs, up and down, per hour today.



Yeggous is a Wildcat skier.  When you are used to getting 2100 vert of consistent pitched terrain off a chair that takes six minutes to access it, long slow fixed grips for lesser vert is an adjustment.


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## drjeff (Mar 22, 2015)

Firm and fast at Magic today! Stiff headwind on the way down above roughly the top of Showoff - snow made for perfect, firm, consistent conditions for my daughters race today - for just skiing, basically if it wasn't groomed you didn't want to ski it!! Still lots of snow though!!

Free burgers in the BLT after 3 was a nice touch (they cooked way too many for the race today and were just going to throw them out after the cafeteria closed about 2, so they brought a platter of probably 50 burgers upstairs and put them by the Bloody Mary bar and just told everyone to have at them!


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## yeggous (Mar 22, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Yeggous is a Wildcat skier.  When you are used to getting 2100 vert of consistent pitched terrain off a chair that takes six minutes to access it, long slow fixed grips for lesser vert is an adjustment.



Yes, this. I am spoiled. I also have developed an allergy to lift lines.


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## jrmagic (Mar 23, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> https://instagram.com/p/0fu8ieGKRG/
> 
> Apparently ON3P is demoing at Magic tomorrow



I noticed that in the afternoon and took a few laps on the Karel 98 in a 181. I have to say I was pretty impress with this ski.


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## prsboogie (Mar 23, 2015)

They look pretty awesome. Wish I could have gotten up there for that.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 23, 2015)

LOL got pulled over and threatened w/ pass clipping by head patrol at the base area for coming down Witch to Black Sat afternoon. Yeah right. Told him it was great and to drop the damn rope. It was gone by the time I got back up. Unfortunately patrol loses all credibility and support when they only move quickly to close trails, not open them when conditions change. A positive attitude to match the Magic vibe would go along way too. Oh, and to be on skis more and snowmobile less...


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## mriceyman (Mar 23, 2015)

Ya well i got my pass clipped for not having the bar down. No joke 


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 24, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Ya well i got my pass clipped for not having the bar down. No joke
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



What???  That is ridiculous.


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## Tin (Mar 24, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Ya well i got my pass clipped for not having the bar down. No joke
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Seriously? At Magic?!


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## soposkier (Mar 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> Seriously? At Magic?!




About a month ago I had patrol at Magic tell me to put the bar down.  It was at the spot near the top where the lift levels out for the final stretch, right where the lift line is roped off.  He told me to put the bar down per Vermont state law.  Immediately after I heard him say into his radio "chair XX" (whatever the number was of the one behind me).  At the unload station there was another ski patrol waiting who clipped the pass/ticket of the group behind me. Not sure why they did it to them and not me.  First time I have ever seen that happen.


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## WoodCore (Mar 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> Seriously? At Magic?!




It is a state law but never seen/heard of this done at Magic before. 

Up at Smuggs they had/still have a PA system on the M1 lift and will broadcast "chair #65 put your bar down" a few times. If the offending chair did not put the bar down after several requests, the lift was stopped. Nothing worse drawing the ire of a full lift corral on a busy weekend!


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## xwhaler (Mar 24, 2015)

They were yelling pretty good at Bolton Valley a couple wknds ago on the Wildnerness lift when bars were not down.
Maybe something they are collectively working harder to try and enforce lately?
I don't like riding a lift without the bar down personally.


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## drjeff (Mar 24, 2015)

It's pretty simple.  The VT state gov't is HURTING for $$ right now.  I'm guessing that they sent a message out to ski resorts saying something to the extent of "if you aren't actively enforcing the state law about the lowering of safety bars, and we catch you on random inspections, we will fine you..."

Places like Magic as we all know can't afford the be writing any extra checks out, especially checks for things that are fully preventable


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## twinplanx (Mar 24, 2015)

soposkier said:


> About a month ago I had patrol at Magic tell me to put the bar down.  It was at the spot near the top where the lift levels out for the final stretch, right where the lift line is roped off.  He told me to put the bar down per Vermont state law.  Immediately after I heard him say into his radio "chair XX" (whatever the number was of the one behind me).  At the unload station there was another ski patrol waiting who clipped the pass/ticket of the group behind me. Not sure why they did it to them and not me.  First time I have ever seen that happen.


Regardless of there motivation I have to call them out on poor customer service. Ticket clipping seems excessive. I warning would have sufficed. The only time I have a problem lowering the bar is without foot rests. A bar without foot rests sucks!!


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## jrmagic (Mar 24, 2015)

They have done it on rare  occasions over the years. Not sure what the driver is though I suppose drjeff could be right.


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## gmcunni (Mar 24, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Ya well i got my pass clipped for not having the bar down. No joke



are you skipping part of the story?  no warning or anything like that?


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 24, 2015)

Probably many don't know that it is state law, and frankly a simple one to save a life. Lift signs are a good way to educate. I think people would have received a warning at Magic from patrol first.


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## soposkier (Mar 24, 2015)

I received a warning with no clipping, guess they were being selective


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## gmcunni (Mar 24, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> I don't like riding a lift without the bar down personally.



+1


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## jrmagic (Mar 25, 2015)

So no more Throwback Thursdays at Magic. They will operate Friday to Sunday for the rest of the season and now have Flashback Friday where 25 bucks gets you a ticket a burger and a beer.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 25, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> So no more Throwback Thursdays at Magic. They will operate Friday to Sunday for the rest of the season and now have Flashback Friday where 25 bucks gets you a ticket a burger and a beer.



Looks like Magic's season will then go to April 11/12 as the Flashback Fridays are scheduled for the next 3 fridays, too!


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## reefer (Mar 25, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Looks like Magic's season will then go to April 11/12 as the Flashback Fridays are scheduled for the next 3 fridays, too!



Is there something on the website stating this?


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## reefer (Mar 25, 2015)

reefer said:


> Is there something on the website stating this?




Forget it, just checked twitter............................


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## gmcunni (Mar 25, 2015)

reefer said:


> Is there something on the website stating this?



facebook has it


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## Domeskier (Mar 25, 2015)

I remember day glow clothing and equipment, but American flag capes??


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 25, 2015)

Some Magic stoke from the last four years.  Much of it borrowed footage, enjoy. 





Lifetime post #2


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## jrmagic (Mar 25, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> I remember day glow clothing and equipment, but American flag capes??



Not just American flags. That year farlap99 and his wife had Irish flag capes. We also had a sheik and several "normal" capes. IIRC it made one of Guy's videos posted here.


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## makimono (Mar 25, 2015)

when gaper day and cape day collide!...bummed I'm gonna miss it this year but I'm not quite good enough to get back on snow for this weekend....I will make it back to Magic for some April turns though and I'll probably still wear purple and pink pants anyways.


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## jrmagic (Mar 25, 2015)

makimono said:


> when gaper day and cape day collide!...bummed I'm gonna miss it this year but I'm not quite good enough to get back on snow for this weekend....I will make it back to Magic for some April turns though and I'll probably still wear purple and pink pants anyways.



Didn't realize you were down. Hope it's nothing serious. I look forward to making some more turns with you before the season's over. Heal up quick!!


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## makimono (Mar 25, 2015)

Not serious, just a strained back banging icy seeded bumps at WaWa. Getting mucho better, 1 more week and I should be game on for spring


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## twinplanx (Mar 27, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> Anyone interested in a certificate for 2 tickets to Magic? I bought one that I probably won't be able to use. I payed 63 bucks...



Expires this weekend.Entertaining all offers...


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## billski (Mar 27, 2015)

I think I'll be at Magic on Sunday.  Look me up or avoid me, whatever works for you!


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## gmcunni (Mar 27, 2015)

billski said:


> I think I'll be at Magic on Sunday.  Look me up or avoid me, whatever works for you!



has anyone posted a picture of your flags? i'd like to see them and won't be able to in person this year (probably)


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## Tin (Mar 27, 2015)

Tons and tons of snow on the mountain, but lot of ropes as well for no real reason. Here are Goniff and Twilight which we just happened to stumble on going through the woods since both were roped. I think the new policy should be if it is listed on the snow report as open then you can ski it, especially when there is this much snow on them. I think Slide of Hans had more snow on it than any trail at MRG last week but it was roped as well.


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## billski (Mar 27, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> has anyone posted a picture of your flags? i'd like to see them and won't be able to in person this year (probably)



Only one flag went up, the ropes are messed up on the other two.  Mgt. is working on it, last I heard.


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## vonski (Mar 27, 2015)

hope they wait to let it set up tonight before doing the grooming!  and then groom like they have been!  Because it will be firm tomorrow! We can only hope a few big squalls finds the place tonight and tomorrow!


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## Domeskier (Mar 27, 2015)

billski said:


> Only one flag went up, the ropes are messed up on the other two.  Mgt. is working on it, last I heard.



I hope they are not using the other two flags for this cape-day phenomenon I just learned about.


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## Tin (Mar 27, 2015)

By later on it was super creamy. Doesn't look to get crazy cold but maybe just cold enough.


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## jrmagic (Mar 27, 2015)

vonski said:


> hope they wait to let it set up tonight before doing the grooming!  and then groom like they have been!  Because it will be firm tomorrow! We can only hope a few big squalls finds the place tonight and tomorrow!



They generally do the grooming as late as possible so I don't see why that would change tonight. You are correct about the firm part though. Daytime highs in the low to mid 20s won't feel much like spring fling day brrrrr!


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## Savemeasammy (Mar 27, 2015)

I'll be there tomorrow with my little guy - perhaps we will see you jr magic?  If you see a guy lecturing his kid on the side of the trail about not tucking, that will be us...!


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## jrmagic (Mar 27, 2015)

Lol Im leaving NY in an hour or so. I will look for the guy chasing his son down the trail at little tunny speed lol. FYI I believe tomorrow is the big air thingy. Perhaps he can tuck down the tube park and hit the jump?  What bad things can come of that lol? 
 I see I still have your number in my phone so if I don't see you I will reach out.


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## Savemeasammy (Mar 27, 2015)

Ok.  It doesn't look like a day to hurry over early, so we probably won't be around until 10ish...


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## billski (Mar 28, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> I hope they are not using the other two flags for this cape-day phenomenon I just learned about.




My plan is to ski on Sunday when there is a bit of a warm up.


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## makimono (Mar 28, 2015)

The latest Steeped In Confusion_™..... _Ride VT incorrectly tweeted that Magic's last day was tomorrow...and Magic favorites and retweets it! 

Anyways, Liftopia has $23 tix for tomorrow  thinking about it...


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## billski (Mar 28, 2015)

It's snowing up there now.  If they take today's precip and grind it in with the fgr, it should ski really sweet on sunday.  That's what $teaux does.


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## Savemeasammy (Mar 28, 2015)

Don't get too excited.  It maybe has added up to 1/2 inch so far. 


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## billski (Mar 28, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Don't get too excited.  It maybe has added up to 1/2 inch so far.



I've seen Stowe make a pretty fine surface with 1-2"


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## Savemeasammy (Mar 28, 2015)

Sorry...  HALF inch! 


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## jrmagic (Mar 28, 2015)

Bill I will look for you tomorrow. Don't care how little snow we got. The mountain skied way softer than expected. Tomorrow will be fun.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2015)

Tin said:


> Tons and tons of snow on the mountain, but lot of ropes as well for no real reason. Here are Goniff and Twilight which we just happened to stumble on going through the woods since both were roped. I think the new policy should be if it is listed on the snow report as open then you can ski it, especially when there is this much snow on them. I think Slide of Hans had more snow on it than any trail at MRG last week but it was roped as well.



That, and the story about their safety bar patrol, make me wonder if their insurer paid a visit and gave them a hard time. Seems odd considering how laid back they usually are.


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## MMP (Mar 28, 2015)

I'm upset about the flags Sorry, flag. Half mast red cross. Lol.


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## MMP (Mar 28, 2015)

Good to meet you Tin, my dog really seemed to enjoy humping your dog


----------



## Savemeasammy (Mar 29, 2015)

That's one damn friendly dog.  Very indiscriminate about who he humps.  I'd hate to see how he acts after he gets all liquored up.  



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MMP (Mar 29, 2015)

Magic is for lovers! Nice meeting you, though the dog porn shoot seemed extreme in front of your kid.


----------



## vonski (Mar 29, 2015)

Yesterdays snow really helped to make for a great day of Carving.  The hill was way softer than expected as Jr. Magic stated.   It was one last mid winter day!


----------



## C-Rex (Mar 30, 2015)

I have a voucher left over for Magic.  How are conditions?  I'm thinking about heading up this coming weekend...


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## billski (Mar 30, 2015)

Mishka, I and Tom W. were up yesterday.  You guys don't look very hard!   I'll post a TR in a few mins.


----------



## Tin (Mar 30, 2015)

Saturday was amazing. Sunday conditions were extremely foggy and nauseous due to leaving BLT around sunrise lol


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## billski (Mar 30, 2015)

*MMP, why are you upset?  *



MMP said:


> I'm upset about the flags Sorry, flag. Half mast red cross. Lol. View attachment 16320



What upsets you?   I bought that flag and raised it about a month ago.  That's the National Flag of Switzerland, home of Hans Thorner, founder of Magic.  It's not a "Red Cross" flag, LOL!   The other two poles have rigging problems.  I (Via TW) gave the American and Vermont flags to Emily in the office.  I figured the Swiss flag was the most identifying.  The middle pole mast is strung incorrectly too, so it only goes up part way.

I had a long email "chat" with Tom.  He wants to take care of re-roping them after the snow ski season ends, the mud is gone and his folks have some time to spare.  He also wants to light the flags so they can stay up 7x24.  BTW, for all the promises, nobody ever sent me any money for the flags.  :roll:

Bill


----------



## makimono (Mar 30, 2015)

A lot of people (me included sometimes) say what's wrong with Magic or "they should do" this or that better or whatever...so for you to not just propose an idea but follow through on it with your own money and your own labor is awesome. If I haven't said it yet, thanks and you rock!


BTW ON3P Skis is setting up another demo day this Sunday 4/5 in case anyone missed it last time. See how those handmade west coast skis do in east coast corn.


----------



## billski (Mar 30, 2015)

makimono said:


> A lot of people (me included sometimes) say what's wrong with Magic or "they should do" this or that better or whatever...so for you to not just propose an idea but follow through on it with your own money and your own labor is awesome.



I appreciate the vibes makimono.   Let's not forget the "Magic Faithful" that have poured thousands of their own dollars into the infrastructure.  Look at the board next time you go to load the lift.    Along with that, they've spend hundreds of hours on woodworking, painting and woods pruning amoung other things.  We were in perilous shape 5 years ago.  Every bit helps.  MY HATS OFF TO ALL OF THEM.


----------



## jrmagic (Mar 30, 2015)

makimono said:


> BTW ON3P Skis is setting up another demo day this Sunday 4/5 in case anyone missed it last time. See how those handmade west coast skis do in east coast corn.



I demoed a pair of the Kartel 98s on the hard pack the week before last and they were a blast. I t will be fun to try them in soft snow.


----------



## MMP (Mar 30, 2015)

billski said:


> What upsets you?   I bought that flag and raised it about a month ago.  That's the National Flag of Switzerland, home of Hans Thorner, founder of Magic.  It's not a "Red Cross" flag, LOL!   The other two poles have rigging problems.  I (Via TW) gave the American and Vermont flags to Emily in the office.  I figured the Swiss flag was the most identifying.  The middle pole mast is strung incorrectly too, so it only goes up part way.
> 
> I had a long email "chat" with Tom.  He wants to take care of re-roping them after the snow ski season ends, the mud is gone and his folks have some time to spare.  He also wants to light the flags so they can stay up 7x24.  BTW, for all the promises, nobody ever sent me any money for the flags.  :roll:
> 
> Bill



For all of your good intention, nothing was done. What's there looks worse than no flag because it isn't done properly, nor will it be unless you do it yourself. Flying the Swiss flag solo? Suit yourself, I'm not a fan_._

Did you post your paypal address? several people offered you a few dollars for your "investment" how was that supposed to happen? Let's all meet at the flagpole and reimburse you when they all go up. ahahahahahah

"light the flag poles".. ahahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## makimono (Mar 30, 2015)

What you may not realize pinhead is that Bills' intentional positioning of the Swiss flag - at half mast and upside down, an international sign of distress - is a hidden reference to S.O.S.P. or Save Our Ski Patrol....a subtle middle finger on the middle flagpole if you will.


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## MMP (Mar 30, 2015)

Emblematic of the black chair, broken and doesn't go all the way to the top


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## mriceyman (Mar 31, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> are you skipping part of the story?  no warning or anything like that?



Sorry just came back to this thread. A little way up a patroller a chair back yelled to put the bar down. We complied immediately and said sorry. A we got to the top he came over to us to explain the law. We said no problem ad we would make sure to keep the bar down. Well as we are about to head down another patroller heard the end of our little convo and said well im going to clip their pass to make sure it doesnt happen again. I was shocked honestly. So my buddy and i had clipped passes from the last place id ever think i would happen. 


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## wa-loaf (Mar 31, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Sorry just came back to this thread. A little way up a patroller a chair back yelled to put the bar down. We complied immediately and said sorry. A we got to the top he came over to us to explain the law. We said no problem ad we would make sure to keep the bar down. Well as we are about to head down another patroller heard the end of our little convo and said well im going to clip their pass to make sure it doesnt happen again. I was shocked honestly. So my buddy and i had clipped passes from the last place id ever think i would happen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Clipped just means you got a warning? You didn't lose the passes?


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## Scruffy (Mar 31, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Sorry just came back to this thread. A little way up a patroller a chair back yelled to put the bar down. We complied immediately and said sorry. A we got to the top he came over to us to explain the law. We said no problem ad we would make sure to keep the bar down. Well as we are about to head down another patroller heard the end of our little convo and said well im going to clip their pass to make sure it doesnt happen again. I was shocked honestly. So my buddy and i had clipped passes from the last place id ever think i would happen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Sounds harsh, but think about how bad the PR would be from an injured or dead person falling off the lift. Magic is hanging on by a thread, any negative press would be a death knell.


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## Hado226 (Mar 31, 2015)

Clipped pass means one corner cut as a warning, and notice to anyone catching the guest with a subsequent violation that warning didnt work, at which time the pass would be pulled.

Clipped pass = warning
Pulled pass = go home, go to the bar, or buy another pass and start the cycle again.


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## gmcunni (Mar 31, 2015)

Hado226 said:


> Clipped pass = warning
> Pulled pass = go home, go to the bar, or buy another pass&#55357;&#56836; and start the cycle again.



that's good. i had assumed clipped = pulled.

still harsh tho


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## MMP (Mar 31, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> Sounds harsh, but think about how bad the PR would be from an injured or dead person falling off the lift. Magic is hanging on by a thread, any negative press would be a death knell.



How would a dead person falling falling from a lift be a pr problem?


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## Scruffy (Apr 1, 2015)

MMP said:


> How would a dead person falling falling from a lift be a pr problem?



Haha .. good one .. note to self ..shouldn't post when busy at work.


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 1, 2015)

But that PR could scare more kids & families away? Continue the "Steeped in Vermont" theme.

Sorry, anyone who knows me knows I hate that.  Moving on, it should be another great weekend.  Still so much snow.


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## Tin (Apr 1, 2015)

Next year's spring fling they are replacing the flamingos with dead bodies. Might need to get a bigger yellow bin though.


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## makimono (Apr 4, 2015)

Anyone up at Magic this weekend? I'm sure RG and JR were...you guys must have had a blast yesterday.

I'll be up tomorrow at least...saw on the website they've hinted at staying open thru the 19th. That'd be awesome, long range outlook says mother nature doesn't really turn on the heater for another week.


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## MommaBear (Apr 4, 2015)

Was at Magic late this morning.  Took 3 runs and called it quits - snow was way too firm everywhere except right at the lift.  This morning's snow report read that the snow hadn't frozen up overnight and that we'd be skiing the same soft bumps as yesterday.  Yeah, not.  Was very disappointed as the snow report was the only reason I went.  Group of 5 or six others were in the lodge negotiating some sort of refund because of the conditions when we left.


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## makimono (Apr 4, 2015)

Sacre Bleu!

Well at least you had a good day yesterday...I'm still going up tomorrow even if it's just ripping Trick to Show Off on some demo powder boards.


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## vonski (Apr 5, 2015)

Friday was off the wall incredible.  It was like 2 inches of butter on top of the snow pack all day.  I had warm temp wax on skis and never stopped short all day.  It was incredible.    The hill was soft but just the top layers so.  It probably got firm real quick Saturday Morning when temps dropped.   

Went to Killington Saturday.   K peak to Rams head  was winter wonderland.  Woods in play  as well.   Luckily for the new snow as there was hard pack to boiler plate that froze up over night on lots of the trails.  It would have sucked with out the new snow.    Bear Mountain was is own climate.   It was a corn fest over there.


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## MMP (Apr 5, 2015)

MommaBear said:


> Was at Magic late this morning.  Took 3 runs and called it quits - snow was way too firm everywhere except right at the lift.  This morning's snow report read that the snow hadn't frozen up overnight and that we'd be skiing the same soft bumps as yesterday.  Yeah, not.  Was very disappointed as the snow report was the only reason I went.  Group of 5 or six others were in the lodge negotiating some sort of refund because of the conditions when we left.



There's not many ski areas that would consider a refund under those circumstances. Did they actually give money back?


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## MommaBear (Apr 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> There's not many ski areas that would consider a refund under those circumstances. Did they actually give money back?


Not sure.  The Magic employee talking with them said she would go see what she could do.  I left before she came back.  I didn't attempt a refund because I get that it is the risk you take.  But I will never trust their snow report again, that is for sure.


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## jrmagic (Apr 5, 2015)

Saturday afternoon wasn't like Friday but ehen the sun came out it did soften up on some trails like Sorceror, witch, broomstick, Blackline and mystery to name a few. The ungroomed skied better than the groomed as there was a lot of water left in the snow when they groomed and that turned pretty solid but was edgeable.


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## doublediamond (Apr 6, 2015)

MMP said:


> There's not many ski areas that would consider a refund under those circumstances. Did they actually give money back?



First off, a lot of ski areas have snow guarantee refunds.  But here's the kicker:  it's one thing to have bad conditions; it's an entirely different scenario to post on your snow report that the snow didn't freeze up overnight when in fact it did.  That constitutes fraud.  I'd be livid if I was there/them.


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## jrmagic (Apr 6, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> First off, a lot of ski areas have snow guarantee refunds.  But here's the kicker:  it's one thing to have bad conditions; it's an entirely different scenario to post on your snow report that the snow didn't freeze up overnight when in fact it did.  That constitutes fraud.  I'd be livid if I was there/them.



Fraud? That's a bit of a reach. I will give you overly optomistic at best. As or early that morning it was not below freezing so it wasn't that hard. Temps were dropping through the morning Ungroomed was softer than groomed and last I checked there are no moguls on groomers. Furthermore, I did ski soft bumps for part of the day at least and earlier in the day they were a little firm but not rock hard.


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## vonski (Apr 6, 2015)

I didn't ski Magic Saturday.  But when the snow report was posted in the am. It was still raining. It was probably soft.  The weather report was for falling temps all day.  So, of course it got firmer not softer.   What I don't understand is why can't folks figure it out themselves.  I mean falling Temps mean hardening conditions.    
Killington was one big boiler plate Saturday.  If not for the new snow it would have sucked.  The snow was wet when it fell but dried out with the wind and falling Temps;  Saving the day!

So, go ahead and Sue Ma Nature.  She is Fraudulent daily.!!!!!!


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## gmcunni (Apr 6, 2015)

vonski said:


> I didn't ski Magic Saturday.  But when the snow report was posted in the am. It was still raining. It was probably soft.  The weather report was for falling temps all day.  So, of course it got firmer not softer.   What I don't understand is why can't folks figure it out themselves.  I mean falling Temps mean hardening conditions.



i think you give the general public too much credit for figuring things out.


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## vonski (Apr 6, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i think you give the general public too much credit for figuring things out.



Unfortunately your probably right!!!


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## makimono (Apr 6, 2015)

Had a fun day yesterday bombing around the groomers with a group of about 8 crazies...we descended on the ON3P tent like locusts and picked 'em clean. The girls really raved about the Jessies...I took a few runs on the Wrenegades in 112 and 102 flavor. The 112's felt comically short and wide to me at 176, fun to toss around but I didn't have the confidence in them to really set the edge and let them run down Talli. The 102's on the other hand ripped at the 186 length. But I also have very very low standards as I started and finished the day on my 25 year old K2 205's haha.

Sorry to hear about your shoulder JR, hope it heals up quick for you!


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## jrmagic (Apr 6, 2015)

makimono said:


> Had a fun day yesterday bombing around the groomers with a group of about 8 crazies...we descended on the ON3P tent like locusts and picked 'em clean. The girls really raved about the Jessies...I took a few runs on the Wrenegades in 112 and 102 flavor. The 112's felt comically short and wide to me at 176, fun to toss around but I didn't have the confidence in them to really set the edge and let them run down Talli. The 102's on the other hand ripped at the 186 length. But I also have very very low standards as I started and finished the day on my 25 year old K2 205's haha.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your shoulder JR, hope it heals up quick for you!



Thank you sir. I will be OK...sniff sniff....  As for ON3P I ran around on the the 98 Kartel in a 181 when they were there 2 weeks ago. Thought the ski was fantastic.


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## makimono (Apr 6, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Thank you sir. I will be OK...sniff sniff....  As for ON3P I ran around on the the 98 Kartel in a 181 when they were there 2 weeks ago. Thought the ski was fantastic.



DoWork wouldn't give that ski up..said the same.


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## MommaBear (Apr 7, 2015)

vonski said:


> I didn't ski Magic Saturday.  But when the snow report was posted in the am. It was still raining. It was probably soft.  The weather report was for falling temps all day.  So, of course it got firmer not softer.   What I don't understand is why can't folks figure it out themselves.  I mean falling Temps mean hardening conditions.


It was not raining when I read the first report.  And it was not soft, except right at the lift area.  There was no mention of "dropping temps" in the first view of the report (they did reflect that wording in a report posted later when I checked it around 12:30...).  My bad for not checking weather reports as well I guess.  As for it softening up jrmagic, we left around 1pm with no sun in sight.  Guess we should have stuck it out longer?


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 7, 2015)

vonski said:


> I didn't ski Magic Saturday.  But when the snow report was posted in the am. It was still raining. It was probably soft.  The weather report was for falling temps all day.  So, of course it got firmer not softer.   What I don't understand is why can't folks figure it out themselves.  I mean falling Temps mean hardening conditions.
> Killington was one big boiler plate Saturday.  If not for the new snow it would have sucked.  The snow was wet when it fell but dried out with the wind and falling Temps;  Saving the day!
> 
> So, go ahead and Sue Ma Nature.  She is Fraudulent daily.!!!!!!



Exactly.  I don't get any of this.  60 degree's & sun on Friday to below freezing Saturday,.........hmmmmmmmmm?

Back to Friday.  Remember Friday?  That day quite a few people bailed because of the "rain"?  The best spring day in years Friday?  This is weather people.  We cannot predict it & certainly cannot expect Magic to.


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## jrmagic (Apr 7, 2015)

MommaBear said:


> It was not raining when I read the first report.  And it was not soft, except right at the lift area.  There was no mention of "dropping temps" in the first view of the report (they did reflect that wording in a report posted later when I checked it around 12:30...).  My bad for not checking weather reports as well I guess.  As for it softening up jrmagic, we left around 1pm with no sun in sight.  Guess we should have stuck it out longer?



Wasn't trying to rebuke your experience but had you stuck around there was some good snow around. Sorry you didn't get to enjoy it.


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## Loaf Nut (Apr 8, 2015)

Was the coverage at Magic deep enough to withstand this week's rain?  Thinking of heading there this weekend.


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## mriceyman (Apr 8, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> Clipped just means you got a warning? You didn't lose the passes?



Yea just lost a corner. I think if they are going to be that strict then they need more signage at the base of the lift. We  checked after and there was not one sign while in line saying its a law to have the bar down. And i understand where they are coming from but it was a little harsh if you ask me. Especially when we complied right away .


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 8, 2015)

Really?  You seriously need more signage to put your bar down?  Loaf nut, i'll be there.  Should be plenty of snow.


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 8, 2015)

If they are enforcing a state law, and clipping tickets for not complying then yes I think signage is necessary.  I believe I've seen similar signs at other resorts in Vermont (Killington, Sugarbush, or Stowe I can't remember which place).

If it weren't for this message board or seeing said sign how would I, being a non Vermont resident, know its state law to put the safety bar down?


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 8, 2015)

State law?  Is that what this is about?  I thought it was about common sense.  I cannot believe I am even replying here.  Do you need a sign to tie your shoes in the morning?


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 8, 2015)

I don't disagree with the common sense part.  However if the resort and it's representative (e.g. ski patrol) are going to enforce putting the bar down by clipping tickets, don't you think some public awareness should be implemented?  

I haven heard of someone getting " clipped" for years.  Let alone for not putting bar down. If that's the stance the resort wants to take, so be it  but at least let the paying public know the penalty.


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## makimono (Apr 17, 2015)

Looks like they're going for 1 more day!

*Alpine Update 
*
*This  Saturday we will be opening from 10am-4pm! We will be grilling on the  deck with Trick to Show Off and maybe a few more to come*

I won't make it but I'm really glad I was able to get up last Sunday. Incredible amount of snow all over the mountain, trees in the east, soft bumps on Black, HOM, TZ and Goniff, T-shirts, sunglasses & brilliant sunshine, slope side charcuterie & beer bar, raging crew of dirt jumping crazies haha...I think that was the first time I made my last run on Upper Magician, even though I did half of it on my back and I still have corn-rash on my forearm and elbow, it was an awesome time and a really great year at Magic!


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## vonski (Apr 24, 2015)

Maybe Magic can get the triple chairs from the Heritage club Barnstormer lift.!!!  for the Black line lift.   IDK  just a thought.


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## WoodCore (Apr 24, 2015)

vonski said:


> Maybe Magic can get the triple chairs from the Heritage club Barnstormer lift.!!!  for the Black line lift.   IDK  just a thought.




Why not the whole lift!


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 26, 2015)

Still snow.


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## drjeff (Apr 26, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Still snow.



Talisman sure looked like it was still in good shape from my view heading South on 100 the last 2 days! Even the trick to showoff route looked quite well covered from 100!

Heck from what I saw from various roads in Southern/Central VT the last 2 days there wasn't a ski area South of Killington that couldn't of spun a lift or 2 this weekend if they really wanted too!


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 26, 2015)

That is Talisman.  I'll get together some pics for you guys.  Super fun day.  Not knowing the weather, it's hard to tell how long it will last.  Someone will certainly get May turns if they don't mind getting muddy.  To & from trails are real messy.  Once we hit snow it was quite enjoyable.


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## JoeB-Z (May 1, 2015)

So what is brewing for next year? No early offers of season passes?


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## mriceyman (May 1, 2015)

How bout 2 lifts


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## Magic (May 13, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> How bout 2 lifts
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



As usual communication sucks. No FB updates in a month. The kid who managed the page needs to stop skiing and start working!!


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## marcski (May 14, 2015)

Magic said:


> As usual communication sucks. No FB updates in a month. The kid who managed the page needs to stop skiing and start working!!


I'm not sure about Magic, but if a ski area were to take a break or vacation, you'd think it would be the first couple of weeks after the ski season ends.


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## slatham (May 15, 2015)

On one hand I agree. On the other, for a struggling area, why not take advantage of the great year and get season pass sale info out to people. Most other areas have a May 1 or15 deadline for discounts so people are thinking about passes. Why is Magic nowhere to be seen/heard?


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## steamboat1 (May 15, 2015)

slatham said:


> On one hand I agree. On the other, for a struggling area, why not take advantage of the great year and get season pass sale info out to people. Most other areas have a May 1 or15 deadline for discounts so people are thinking about passes. Why is Magic nowhere to be seen/heard?



I've already purchased my season pass for next season taking advantage of early season pricing. Besides early season pricing some areas also offered free skiing this spring if you purchased a season pass for next season. Don't understand why Magic couldn't take advantage of these same promotions in an attempt to increase sales. Someone is sleeping at the wheel over there.


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## Savemeasammy (May 15, 2015)

^Agree.  Magic had a killer season.  They should have capitalized by selling next years passes in late March and allow people to use them.  


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## catsup948 (May 15, 2015)

I feel Magic would benefit from knowing they had some capital stashed away well before next season starts.  Less scrambling to sell passes in December to pay for much needed snowmaking.


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## deadheadskier (May 15, 2015)

Quick question; has Magically historically been "open for business" in May and selling passes?

It definitely seems strange they've got the phone off the hook given the season they just had.  I agree, they could be making sales.

However, could this be a case of Magic not having the financial reserves to guarantee a next season and therefore not wanting to collect money for passes until they know they can deliver the product?

Honest question.  Seems reasonable considering Magics history.


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## steamboat1 (May 16, 2015)

Caveat Emptor


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## slatham (May 19, 2015)

Well, I just called Timber Quest and the voice message said "We are open weekends in June and full time starting July 3rd" so there will be some activity on the mountain soon. 

And as for season passes, I would guess, given the same price, that they will sell as many passes in July as they would in April. So it might be as simple as there's no reason to keep the lights on for 2 months. Not typical SOP, but then again, this is Magic.......

We need RustyGroomer to chime in......


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## yeggous (May 20, 2015)

I actually talked to the owner of Magic at the bar of the Upper Pass Lodge when I was there in March. Someone else at the bar asked about season pass sales and he said they would go on sale as soon as he knew that he would have enough money to open next year.


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----------



## RustyGroomer (May 20, 2015)

I know nothing other than plans are certainly in the works for a season next year.  When the time comes for passes, everyone on here will know about it.  Please don't shoot the messenger.  

Yeggous, he's been known for those "odd" tactics.  If you remember correctly, the shit hit the fan @ the beginning of last year with the exact same story.


----------



## Sorcerer (May 22, 2015)

slatham said:


> Well, I just called Timber Quest and the voice message said "We are open weekends in June and full time starting July 3rd" so there will be some activity on the mountain soon.
> 
> And as for season passes, I would guess, given the same price, that they will sell as many passes in July as they would in April. So it might be as simple as there's no reason to keep the lights on for 2 months. Not typical SOP, but then again, this is Magic.......
> 
> We need RustyGroomer to chime in......




There are people working outside right now. They are cutting grass around the base lodge and red chair. I don't know what the ones up the mountain are doing, but ATVs keep going up and down. They did pull in some hoses that were left out. As I understand it, the inside people are on vacation. I'm not sure when they'll be back to start selling tickets or whatever else you do indoors during the summer.


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## steamboat1 (May 22, 2015)

Magic is trying to be like Stowe not announcing pass pricing until the fall.


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## Magic (May 25, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> There are people working outside right now. They are cutting grass around the base lodge and red chair. I don't know what the ones up the mountain are doing, but ATVs keep going up and down. They did pull in some hoses that were left out. As I understand it, the inside people are on vacation. I'm not sure when they'll be back to start selling tickets or whatever else you do indoors during the summer.



They are putting a cell tower up at the top.


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## dlague (May 25, 2015)

Additional revenue!


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## slatham (May 26, 2015)

A new/additional tower (more revenue) or a replacement of existing? 

Glad to hear the full time ops crew is still on the job. If they went on an extended vaca that would be a bad sign. I know Tom wants to hold cost down, so not paying the "inside" crew for 2+ dead months makes sense, though the lack of communication regarding such a move and season passes not being available until later is a bit frustrating.

I have to think the BLT will be open soon as Timber Quest (per their voice mail message at least) is opening in less than 2 weeks.


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## MMP (May 26, 2015)

Are the flagpoles squared away yet?


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## steamboat1 (May 27, 2015)

MMP said:


> Are the flagpoles squared away yet?


They'll work on that after the black chair.


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## slatham (May 30, 2015)

Continuing the search for signs of life at Magic......

Timber Quest web site updated with June 27,2015 as opening day. I would suspect BLT opens then too but no info on Magic website.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jun 2, 2015)

Fireworks not too far away...


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 2, 2015)

slatham said:


> Continuing the search for signs of life at Magic......
> 
> Timber Quest web site updated with June 27,2015 as opening day. I would suspect BLT opens then too but no info on Magic website.



Do they need the BLT for the Timber Quest operation?


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## Magic (Jun 2, 2015)

Butties are playing on the 3rd. No communication anywhere.


----------



## slatham (Jun 3, 2015)

I don't think they"need" to have BLT open when Timberquest is open. They are run by two different groups. But having food and beverage helps TQ be a fuller offering, and with TQ open there will be some business for BLT to capture. Symbiotic.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jun 3, 2015)

I heard that  Magic is updating their ticket processing system for all passes (season and specials). The system that they have is archaic, and each processed ticket pays some good amount (not sure what it is) to the processor - similar to but higher than credit cards charge,

The new system is supposed to be in place later this month.

The person who used to maintain the on-line accounts is gone, and a new one has to be found to update the on-line sites like this one, Facebook etc. Seems simple to have someone do it but evidently not everyone can do it.

I know that they have someone to run the bar, and as bars usually pay for themselves plus, I would expect it to be open when Timber Quest is or any other event is held.

Keep the faith


----------



## Magic (Jun 9, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> I heard that  Magic is updating their ticket processing system for all passes (season and specials). The system that they have is archaic, and each processed ticket pays some good amount (not sure what it is) to the processor - similar to but higher than credit cards charge,
> 
> The new system is supposed to be in place later this month.
> 
> ...



Trying to stay optimistic but a similar comment was removed from the magic Facebook page. Why???


----------



## Sorcerer (Jun 9, 2015)

Magic said:


> Trying to stay optimistic but a similar comment was removed from the magic Facebook page. Why???




Probably because the response was to a very negative statement....When the statement was removed so was the response


----------



## Magic (Jun 10, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> Probably because the response was to a very negative statement....When the statement was removed so was the response



Well at least someone is touching the Facebook page but why no discussion of the butties concert and fireworks? That brings newbies to the mountain regardless of the season.


----------



## slatham (Jun 15, 2015)

I had some correspondence with Tom today and there's been a lot more activity than meets the eye (he can elaborate when the time is right). What I can tell you - season passes will go on sale this summer! 

Summer solstice is Sunday. Almost time to start the official countdown. Could be a good winter, and Magic will be in the mix.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jun 15, 2015)

I'm going with Steve. "Could be a good winter, and Magic will be in the mix."


----------



## billski (Jun 15, 2015)

Did they put up the flags I gave them?


----------



## Magic (Jun 15, 2015)

slatham said:


> I had some correspondence with Tom today and there's been a lot more activity than meets the eye (he can elaborate when the time is right). What I can tell you - season passes will go on sale this summer!
> 
> Summer solstice is Sunday. Almost time to start the official countdown. Could be a good winter, and Magic will be in the mix.



Good to hear. Thank you!


----------



## Sorcerer (Jun 19, 2015)

Did they put up the flags I gave them? 						


The Swiss flag is still the only one up. I heard there was supposed to be a bucket lift around sometime during the summer and the ropes would be fixed then.


----------



## MMP (Jun 20, 2015)

billski said:


> Did they put up the flags I gave them?



Hahahhahahahahahahah



Waiting for mud season to end. Hahahahahahahhaha


----------



## makimono (Jun 20, 2015)

kind of surprised nobody took down the one flag for the offseason :flag:...can't wait to get up there and hike the hill, think they'll let me run the Rollka's down Show Off?


----------



## MMP (Jun 20, 2015)

makimono said:


> kind of surprised nobody took down the one flag for the offseason :flag:...can't wait to get up there and hike the hill, think they'll let me run the Rollka's down Show Off?



Surprised? I'm not. Unless the donor himself does it, it will never get done. It's folly, has nothing to do with the business of the ski area, and looks stupid.  I've been skiing Magic for a long time and never noticed those poles until this brilliant idea surfaced.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 20, 2015)

Flags at Stratton.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 20, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Flags at Stratton.



Colorado? Interesting......


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Sorcerer (Jun 20, 2015)

MMP said:


> Surprised? I'm not. Unless the donor himself does it, it will never get done. It's folly, has nothing to do with the business of the ski area, and looks stupid.  I've been skiing Magic for a long time and never noticed those poles until this brilliant idea surfaced.




Now that's positive thinking   

The poles have been there for a long time and flags used to fly on them. The ropes are stuck at the top of the poles and the only way to get to them is probably a bucket truck. If you happen to have one around, I think the mountain would be more than happy to use it.


----------



## yeggous (Jun 20, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Colorado? Interesting......
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I noticed that too. I also recognize the California flag and assume the rest are other states. I wonder why they choose them.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## makimono (Jun 20, 2015)

Don't Stratton Magic  






For Pinhead :smash:


----------



## drjeff (Jun 20, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I noticed that too. I also recognize the California flag and assume the rest are other states. I wonder why they choose them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app



States/Countries that Intrawest has resorts in??


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 20, 2015)

drjeff said:


> States/Countries that Intrawest has resorts in??



I'm drawing a blank.  What resort does Intrawest own in CO?  Steamboat?


----------



## drjeff (Jun 20, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> I'm drawing a blank.  What resort does Intrawest own in CO?  Steamboat?



Winter Park


----------



## prsboogie (Jun 20, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Winter Park



Both


----------



## MMP (Jun 20, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> Now that's positive thinking
> 
> The poles have been there for a long time and flags used to fly on them. The ropes are stuck at the top of the poles and the only way to get to them is probably a bucket truck. If you happen to have one around, I think the mountain would be more than happy to use it.



Why exactly would i do that? The "mountain" likely could give 2 shits about those flags. 

Bucket truck. That's hilarious. 

Abasin


----------



## billski (Jun 21, 2015)

MMP said:


> Surprised? I'm not. Unless the donor himself does it, it will never get done. It's folly, has nothing to do with the business of the ski area, and looks stupid.  I've been skiing Magic for a long time and never noticed those poles until this brilliant idea surfaced.


  Thanks MMP.  You've left a great first impression on me.


----------



## MMP (Jun 21, 2015)

And you me. Why not get those poles and flags squared away big shot. As of now you've done nothing but put another thing on the list of things that won't get done, and created another eyesore that someone can look at and say " wtf ? Why is there a Swiss flag almost flying at magic". 

Moron.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 21, 2015)

MMP said:


> And you me. Why not get those poles and flags squared away big shot. As of now you've done nothing but put another thing on the list of things that won't get done, and created another eyesore that someone can look at and say " wtf ? Why is there a Swiss flag almost flying at magic".
> 
> Moron.


----------



## MMP (Jun 22, 2015)

makimono said:


> Don't Stratton Magic
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That was awesome, thanks! Monomaniac!:flag:


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 22, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Winter Park



Interesting.  Did not know that.


----------



## ss20 (Jun 22, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> I'm drawing a blank.  What resort does Intrawest own in CO?  Steamboat?



Yes


----------



## VTKilarney (Jun 22, 2015)

Apparently no good deed goes unpunished.  I really liked the idea of the flags, and I think that someone who tries to do something positive for a ski area should be applauded.


.


----------



## dlague (Jun 22, 2015)

Liked the idea as well!


----------



## MMP (Jun 22, 2015)

Well then let's all just pass out participation medals regardless of outcome.  

Nice idea, sure. There's no one to ensure that proper flag etiquette is adhered to, there no lights, and now there's an  expectation that "the mountain" will fix the poles. Well I hope they do. Maybe instead of fixing up the black chair. Then those of us that actually ski at Magic can have something to look at while waiting for the red chair.  At least there's music over there.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 22, 2015)

MMP said:


> Well then let's all just pass out participation medals regardless of outcome.
> 
> Nice idea, sure. There's no one to ensure that proper flag etiquette is adhered to, there no lights, and now there's an  expectation that "the mountain" will fix the poles. Well I hope they do. Maybe instead of fixing up the black chair. Then those of us that actually ski at Magic can have something to look at while waiting for the red chair.  At least there's music over there.




You sure are bent out of shape over this flag donation.  It's not like Bill donated a confederate flag or something. For the life of me I can't figure why this has you so upset.


----------



## MMP (Jun 22, 2015)

No huh? I can't state it any more clearly, so you'll just have to wonder.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 22, 2015)

If you think Bill's flag donation would have an impacting drain on resources to do other projects at the mountain, I think you're quite mistaken and over-reaching.  

Fixing a Flag Pole and the Black Chair repairs aren't mutually exclusive.   

Let it go man.  It really isn't that big of a deal worthy of getting so crabby.


----------



## MMP (Jun 22, 2015)

Unless you think those poles are going to fix themselves, the opportunity cost of doing so and any perceived mutual exclusivity of that opportunity cost aside, you are being naive. 

Were you a shareholder?


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 22, 2015)




----------



## gmcunni (Jun 23, 2015)

nice to see the tradition of summer douchebaggery hasn't changed.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Jun 23, 2015)

MMP said:


> Then those of us that actually ski at Magic can have something to look at while waiting for the red chair.  At least there's music over there.



I definitely appreciate the tunes AND the glades that are cut by the diehard Magic skiers and riders.  I selfishly enjoy them both without offering much in return. 

Thanks.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jun 23, 2015)

Magic needs a flatscreen over by lift & the sound system needs an upgrade.  That kumbaya music they play sucks too.


----------



## MMP (Jun 23, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Magic needs a flatscreen over by lift & the sound system needs an upgrade.  That kumbaya music they play sucks too.




The last time i had my bucket truck up there we tried hanging a flatscreen on the red building. the weight almost tipped the building over so we removed it.  I'll be sure to tell Dave you think Coltrane is "kumbaya" music "that sucks".


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jun 24, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> You sure are bent out of shape over this flag donation.  It's not like Bill donated a confederate flag or something. For the life of me I can't figure why this has you so upset.



The south will rise again!!! I have to admit watching Dukes of Hazard made me think being a racist redneck was cool


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 24, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> The south will rise again!!! I have to admit watching Dukes of Hazard made me think being a racist redneck was cool


You mean a southern democrat?


----------



## Edd (Jun 25, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> The south will rise again!!! I have to admit watching Dukes of Hazard made me think being a racist redneck was cool



Growing up during that time, I thought being a trucker was cool...Dukes, BJ and the Bear, Smokey and the Bandit, Cannonball Run, Convoy, Every Which Way but Loose, I watched them again and again.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jun 26, 2015)

It is southern VT so could go for a little Marshall Tucker, CDB, Allman Bros over by Red


----------



## MMP (Jun 28, 2015)

Hope "the mountain" gets the flags up by 7/4. 


USA!


----------



## Sorcerer (Jun 28, 2015)

MMP said:


> Hope "the mountain" gets the flags up by 7/4.
> 
> 
> USA!




Only if you bring a bucket truck up   :grin:


----------



## slatham (Jul 2, 2015)

The Magic has awoken! Alpine Update below. The front page of the website also makes mention of season passes going on sale next week.

Alpine Update 6/30/15
The mountain is green and growing, but the staff has mowing well in hand.  Except for the last few days, and especially nights, temperatures have been warm.  Last weekend Timber Side held its annual "Friendly Gathering".  They used our ticket office and parking lots then took attendees to the other side with a fleet of buses.  It was more parking than we ever see in the winter.  Well Thrusday was warm and sunny, Friday was warm throughout the day but it got cooler in the evening. Saturday was cool all day and the rain began in the afternoon.  The young people at the concert apparently tried there best to make it a full weekend and their young metabolism likely carried them through it.  When Sunday arrived they had a tow truck to pull cars out of the mud and when I checked on Saturday there was only three vehicles left in our parking areas.  The bigger parking lots with their gravel bases were not affected by the rain but cars parked along the road or in the lower lot seemed to sink to the hubcaps.

The weather reports indicate it will begin to warm up today and by Friday when the Fireworks and Buddies concert are scheduled we should be back to tee shirt temperatures.  As always the town puts on the fireworks and it is the best show in New England or Upstate NY (Tom's opinion.)  The Butties are a Beatles cover band and will be set up inside the lodge with dancing inside and out. (I did have the engineers check the deck afterwards and it is solid for your dancing pleasure.)

Friday also marks the reopening of the Black Line Tavern.  The bar and food service will be open for the summer season, typically being open Friday evening, Saturday  and Sunday Afternoon.  Timber Quest opened last Saturday so if you have been thinking you'd like to try it or let your youngsters try the course, you can do it then have a hamburger and beer on the sunny deck.


----------



## Tin (Jul 2, 2015)

slatham said:


> The Magic has awoken! Alpine Update below. The front page of the website also makes mention of season passes going on sale next week.
> 
> Alpine Update 6/30/15
> The mountain is green and growing, but the staff has mowing well in hand.  Except for the last few days, and especially nights, temperatures have been warm.  Last weekend Timber Side held its annual "Friendly Gathering".  They used our ticket office and parking lots then took attendees to the other side with a fleet of buses.  It was more parking than we ever see in the winter.  Well Thrusday was warm and sunny, Friday was warm throughout the day but it got cooler in the evening. Saturday was cool all day and the rain began in the afternoon.  The young people at the concert apparently tried there best to make it a full weekend and their young metabolism likely carried them through it.  When Sunday arrived they had a tow truck to pull cars out of the mud and when I checked on Saturday there was only three vehicles left in our parking areas.  The bigger parking lots with their gravel bases were not affected by the rain but cars parked along the road or in the lower lot seemed to sink to the hubcaps.
> ...



I read that in my head in a Garrison Keillor voice. Sounded like something from Prarie Home Companion


----------



## slatham (Jul 3, 2015)

Ha. Yes, not your typical mega resort PR piece is it. And I wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## MMP (Jul 3, 2015)

It would be nice if they had someone proofread these things. Unless not looking smart is their thing. 

Any flag progress billskiflag


----------



## Tin (Jul 3, 2015)

MMP said:


> It would be nice if they had someone proofread these things. Unless not looking smart is their thing.
> 
> Any flag progress billskiflag?



Fixed the last part for you.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jul 7, 2015)

I have heard rumors of a sale offer.  Take it for what it's worth.  I will certainly update if I hear anything further.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 7, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I have heard rumors of a sale offer.  Take it for what it's worth.  I will certainly update if I hear anything further.



As in someone made a serious offer to purchase Magic or they made an offer to sell it to someone?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jul 7, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> As in someone made a serious offer to purchase Magic



Yes.


----------



## Tin (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 7, 2015)

Tin said:


>



I was just about to say "wouldn't it be funny if the Q/Stenger crew showed up to buy the place".


----------



## MMP (Jul 7, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I have heard rumors of a sale offer.  Take it for what it's worth.  I will certainly update if I hear anything further.



The flags or the mountain? Jesus I hope these guys prioritize these flags already.  It would be poetic justice if bill buys it, fixes the flags, and bans me for life!  

Oh noze!!!!!


----------



## prsboogie (Jul 7, 2015)

https://twitter.com/SKITHEEAST/status/618523413305511936


----------



## prsboogie (Jul 7, 2015)

Just to add to the vagueness!


----------



## Tin (Jul 7, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> https://twitter.com/SKITHEEAST/status/618523413305511936



I don't like this but "interesting" is a nice term.


----------



## yeggous (Jul 7, 2015)

What could it be?

New lift?

Buyout? Who would the buyer be?

Season pass collaborative deal?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## ss20 (Jul 7, 2015)

High speed 6-pack?  100% snowmaking?  Night skiing?  Slope side hotel?  5-star restaurant at the base?  12 new groomers?  Indoor water park?  

The possibilities are endless.


----------



## ss20 (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## prsboogie (Jul 7, 2015)

ss20 said:


> View attachment 17140



Classic! I really need to get there, soon!


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 8, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Classic! I really need to get there, soon!



Better get there ASAP as the ownership is starting to (slowly) implement their "grand" plan.


----------



## prsboogie (Jul 8, 2015)

Are they changing it that much? I thought they were not making huge changes?


----------



## yeggous (Jul 8, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Are they changing it that much? I thought they were not making huge changes?



When I talked to the owner this winter he was all about building multiple slope side hotels.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## WoodCore (Jul 8, 2015)

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=288


----------



## drjeff (Jul 8, 2015)

The big question is how does the likely new ownership find a balance between the NEED for what realistically is at least 5 million in upgrades (get the Black and Red to a RELIABLE working order, some increases in their snowmaking capacity and coverage - not to 100%, but more coverage and also the ability to make snow simultaneously on a couple of top to bottom routes, and the biggie that will help draw more families to the mountain is some lift over where the Green was to give them a pod of beginner/intermediate terrain) That is going to cost some $$, and if done correctly, it can be done in a way that will still allow the essence of Magic to be there, but be there with some more stable financial footing and more reliable snow conditions over *some* additional terrain during the full length of their season.  I hope it works for them!!


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 8, 2015)

I would think a lift in the old learning area (hocus pocus?) would be more beneficial than a green line chair.  That was a really good unintimidating learning area back in the day.  Both would be ideal


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 8, 2015)

In my opinion, priority number one is replacing black with, most likely, a fixed grip used quad. Simultaneously they will need some new grooming equipment, pumps and pond permits. Second year plan would be a green lift in the old beginner area. Like it or not, red will eventually need to go too if the mountain ever truly becomes successful. I would also put up a lift from the bottom of talisman to the peak above slide of Hans/broomstick. Experts bombing through the main base area isn't the best and would save wear and tear on the intermediate/beginner trails down there. But that is a pretty pipe dream for now.


----------



## Magic (Jul 8, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> In my opinion, priority number one is replacing black with, most likely, a fixed grip used quad. Simultaneously they will need some new grooming equipment, pumps and pond permits. Second year plan would be a green lift in the old beginner area. Like it or not, red will eventually need to go too if the mountain ever truly becomes successful. I would also put up a lift from the bottom of talisman to the peak above slide of Hans/broomstick. Experts bombing through the main base area isn't the best and would save wear and tear on the intermediate/beginner trails down there. But that is a pretty pipe dream for now.



New lifts? No way - cost too much. Maybe a magic carpet if we're lucky. I believe new ownership when the closing really occurs....


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 8, 2015)

Hey, not saying that is going to happen now. But if the mountain wants to thrive longterm, that is what it is going to take. Earlier posts made it sound like the mountain was being sold. This seems like another rearranging of the deck chairs. Although, I am not terribly surprised by this.


----------



## Magic (Jul 8, 2015)

It's hard to believe anyone would invest millions into the mountain but hey I hope someone with money to burn is out there


----------



## yeggous (Jul 8, 2015)

Magic said:


> It's hard to believe anyone would invest millions into the mountain but hey I hope someone with money to burn is out there



I'd believe it if it was part of a larger corporate strategy to consolidate in the area. A single operator owning two mountains in southern Vermont could fundamentally alter the local market. This is what Peak Resorts did when they bought both Wildcat and Attitash. They were so successful selling season passes that they forced the independent mountains in New Hampshire to create the White Mountain Super Pass.


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 8, 2015)

In a package deal with timber side there would be a ton of buildable land. Seems more attractive to me than Burke - much closer to people that make the weekend trip. Not sure of the mueller's situation, but ever since they bought tater hill it seemed like a good new project for them. Not sure if they still live in the area or not though.


----------



## Magic (Jul 8, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'd believe it if it was part of a larger corporate strategy to consolidate in the area. A single operator owning two mountains in southern Vermont could fundamentally alter the local market. This is what Peak Resorts did when they bought both Wildcat and Attitash. They were so successful selling season passes that they forced the independent mountains in New Hampshire to create the White Mountain Super Pass.



Hope it will happen. Any stability to this mountain would be great.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 8, 2015)

yeggous said:


> When I talked to the owner this winter he was all about building multiple slope side hotels.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Re:  Powder Mountain, Utah

Oh it is much worse than that and more pretentious/ridiculous.


----------



## slatham (Jul 8, 2015)

Interesting indeed. I have heard there was an interest in bringing in other investors, but I am not sure if this is a "sale" or just more investors joining to make a go of it. As we all know, more capital is needed for maintenance and improvements.

With regard to prioritization, my interpretation from discussions was 1) a reliable lift - the recent over hall of Red would appear to accomplish this as I understand there were limited issues last year (I experienced none); 2) more snowmaking; 3) Black in working order. 4) a 2nd modern groomer.

Anything beyond that was out of scope without more money from somewhere. 

In my personal opinion, I think Magic can make a serious go of it with Red and Black in working order and enough snowmaking power (and budget) to get the following up and running:

U/L Carpet
Medium
Trick
Wand
Show Off
Hocus Pocus
U/L Wizard
Tali

Ideally they'd be able to put some snow down on Sorcerer and Vertigo (or Witch-Blackline, but lets not get greedy) too at some point given reasonable cold. But I think the above list offers enough terrain and terrain diversity - with a decent amount of it groomed - to lure more people away from nearby crowded slopes over holiday periods and Saturdays. 

But (assuming working lifts) snow is the key. Only thereafter can "improvements" like Green lift, Beginner lift/carpet or a new groomer be contemplated, much less a replacement for Black.

Lets hope it comes together.


----------



## Smellytele (Jul 8, 2015)

slatham said:


> With regard to prioritization, my interpretation from discussions was 1) a reliable lift - the recent over hall of Red would appear to accomplish this as I understand there were limited issues last year (I experienced none); 2) more snowmaking; 3) Black in working order. 4) a 2nd modern groomer.



I was there this year when the Red went down for about 2 hours - without another option it sucked!!


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 8, 2015)

I heard from two reliable sources very different stories re black. First was that it would never be able to run to the state's satisfaction (routinely pessimistic source). Second was that a plan was in place and that the repairs would happen this summer (more reliable, but optimistic source). Take it for what you will. I think they should reevaluate how they blow snow to open up. I would blow trick and magic carpet to black line and then witch to black line and run black (provided it works). To me, that maximizes terrain variety and minimizes the length of snow blown. Blowing the west side is stupid given all the run over there and back, at least for where the mountain is now.


----------



## Tin (Jul 8, 2015)

"To date there is no cross mountain partnerships but if any develop they will be offered to pass holders. "


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jul 8, 2015)

They would be stupid to prioritize Witch to Black Line over Sorcerer would be dumb. Witch gets wind scoured worse than any other trail it seems and Black would require a ton of snow because of its width and need to cover up some of the problem areas (like the last ledge)


----------



## slatham (Jul 8, 2015)

Smellytele, hear your pain. But if ("IF")that was the worst of it then I'd say Red ran "reliably". But that doesn't mean a 2nd chair isn't needed - it is. 

Regarding Black, there was a lot of back and forth b/w Magic and VT lift inspectors about what was needed etc. I thought they had a known set of fixes that needed to be made but by the time they agreed on them it was too late for the ski season. What has happened since then, or is planned, I do not know.

Skithetrees, from what I understand, even with Black running, Red is the lift of choice - its the work horse. There is also the need for Show Off for racing. So Trick to Show Off makes sense as the starting and core run.

Re: the West Side, having good coverage on Tali is very important to the core, loyal locals. Also, as we saw last winter, Tali is a huge benefit for racing. I heard from several sources (including competing race teams) that it is the best race trail in So VT and the only one that gets the local teams prepared for races up north. And Magic makes gets vital cashflow from racing.


----------



## slatham (Jul 8, 2015)

MadMadWorld, agree with your Witch/Black line comment. One thing though is that it might make sense to make snow on top section of Witch because it gets windblown to assure access to Gonif, Red and lower Witch/Blackline. If I recall these were closed several times this past winter due to coverage issues on upper Witch.


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 8, 2015)

slatham said:


> Smellytele, hear your pain. But if ("IF")that was the worst of it then I'd say Red ran "reliably". But that doesn't mean a 2nd chair isn't needed - it is.
> 
> Regarding Black, there was a lot of back and forth b/w Magic and VT lift inspectors about what was needed etc. I thought they had a known set of fixes that needed to be made but by the time they agreed on them it was too late for the ski season. What has happened since then, or is planned, I do not know.
> 
> ...



Red has always been the lift of choice.  But I would argue that , early season, black should be providing it runs well. Yes witch gets wind scoured, but manmade holds much better. Reasons for my plan: 1) they already blow early season snow on the bottom of black line, just after they have done show off, 2) really not much snow than for the lower portion than they already do on show off, 3) blowing the upper portion of witch/blacline is about 1/3 the snow of blowing any route on the west side, 4) half the snow they ow on the west side ends up in the trees anyway, 5) they don't need to open the whole width, see previous comments re show off and owing snow, 6) this would give you a great beginner and expery run - better than most anywhere else early season, 7) the psychological advantage of a riding a lift over snow. 

I would never say don't blow snow on talisman, but with the long low elevation runout, early season it doesn't make sense to complete the route.


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 8, 2015)

Also, don't forget they sometimes race on blackline. As far as the black lift, part of the issue is that it is a rolling set of fixes from what I understand. I.e., there is a multi year list of new things that must be completed each year to convince the state that maintenance is adequate. For example, I think a certain number of sheave train bearings need to be replaced every year. If you get behind one year, it is that much harder the next


----------



## ScottySkis (Jul 9, 2015)

Maybe Lazzoo the owner of Platty is buy MGic with pass to both places that be sweet.


----------



## Smellytele (Jul 9, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> Maybe Lazzoo the owner of Platty is buy MGic with pass to both places that be sweet.



They both offer similar products which wouldn't help them in diversifying their product offering.


----------



## Newpylong (Jul 9, 2015)

I spoke with a NH lift inspector last year and he had no idea how Black ever could pass inspection.

Can someone list all of the trails Magic actually has the ability to make snow on? I mean with an unlimited budget - I know it's not realistic. When I was there a couple years ago it seemed that actually the majority of the trails had pipe including all of those never/rarely used.  I was surprised.

What are the ones they typically do make snow on?


----------



## drjeff (Jul 9, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> I spoke with a NH lift inspector last year and he had no idea how Black ever could pass inspection.
> 
> Can someone list all of the trails Magic actually has the ability to make snow on? I mean with an unlimited budget - I know it's not realistic. When I was there a couple years ago it seemed that actually the majority of the trails had pipe including all of those never/rarely used.  I was surprised.
> 
> What are the ones they typically do make snow on?



I'll let the Magic regulars add any I'm missing, but the last 3 season when I've gone to Magic for my kids races, it's basically just been 7 trails or at least parts of (Trick, Magic Carpet, Showoff, Wand, Hocus Pocus, Wizard and Talisman) that I've seen snowmaking on.  I've seen pipe on other trails, my hunch is that pipe isn't in working condition anymore :-(


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jul 9, 2015)

Kind of interesting that season passes are on offer with no information about the management. Plenty of time to pick up a pass at the July price once some details emerge.


----------



## slatham (Jul 9, 2015)

Drjeff is pretty spot on. One year they also hit Medium. Some years it's only wizard into/out of Tali, others it's the full trail. And last winter they had issues making snow even on upper  wizard. And typically it's only upper carpet.

The issue is leaks in the pipes from years of no maintenance. So they have pipes on several other trails - vertigo, lower carpet, witch, blackline, sorcerer, caruma/lower red line, mystery. Which ones work? Got me. I have heard witch to blackline and sorcerer, but never seen a gun.


----------



## MMP (Jul 9, 2015)

So just comment with no clue what you're  talking about.


----------



## Tin (Jul 9, 2015)

MMP said:


> So just comment with no clue what you're  talking about.



What's wrong with blowing snow on Red Line and Black Magic?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jul 9, 2015)

slatham said:


> MadMadWorld, agree with your Witch/Black line comment. One thing though is that it might make sense to make snow on top section of Witch because it gets windblown to assure access to Gonif, Red and lower Witch/Blackline. If I recall these were closed several times this past winter due to coverage issues on upper Witch.



The coverage on Witch isn't really ever an issue near the entrance for Goniff or really Red Line for that matter. Magic patrol just says if Witch is close then you can't ski Red or Goniff. But all you have to do is put a sign at the top to say Witch/Black is closed and warn people sufficiently. I mean even if someone misses the sign and was planning on skiing W to B, I am fairly confident they will do just fine on Goniff or Red. The shit that Magic ski patrol is absolutely baffling to me....


----------



## slatham (Jul 10, 2015)

Sorry, to vague in my comment. Upper Witch - just the section above Goniff - was closed this past season numerous times. While it technically had coverage (i.e. something frozen vs something earthen) it was so polished by the wind that patrol kept it closed (which we can debate but that's what they did). IF they could blow some snow on that small section they would then be able to groom it and keep it open and thus keep Red and Goniff open. IMHO.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jul 10, 2015)

slatham said:


> Sorry, to vague in my comment. Upper Witch - just the section above Goniff - was closed this past season numerous times. While it technically had coverage (i.e. something frozen vs something earthen) it was so polished by the wind that patrol kept it closed (which we can debate but that's what they did). IF they could blow some snow on that small section they would then be able to groom it and keep it open and thus keep Red and Goniff open. IMHO.


I found the closures of Witch this year to be quite odd. Not fun to ski but not boilerplate ice either. And considering it is double black diamond there is fair warning. I am not much of a ducker of ropes but I set a record this year as Goniff was often excellent.


----------



## Tin (Jul 10, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> I found the closures of Witch this year to be quite odd. Not fun to ski but not boilerplate ice either. And considering it is double black diamond there is fair warning. I am not much of a ducker of ropes but I set a record this year as Goniff was often excellent.




One day I was there Witch/Goniff/Twilight were closed but had the best snow and amount of coverage on the mountain. They were also listed in the trail report as open. They really need to re-evaluate their trail closures. 

And absolutely, the double diamond is fair warning.


----------



## dlague (Jul 10, 2015)

When I was there Witch was open and got scraped off quickly.  And they closed it by 11 am.  The other trails below it had great coverage.  I think people put the brakes on too much on witch for some reason.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jul 10, 2015)

Ugh don't get me started with their snow reporting or their trail inspection. It's a sham.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 10, 2015)

You would think it would be the total opposite at a place like Magic; that trails that would be closed at your average ski area would be open there.


----------



## Newpylong (Jul 10, 2015)

On the Save Magic site maybe 5 years they had a good amount of articles regarding repairing pipes on various trails: Vertigo, Witch to Black, Wizard, Talisman and Sorcerer. Seems like they have only taken advantage of Upper Wizard to Tali since then?

Would a correct statement be that at one time the entire place has snowmaking outside of the trees and: Black Magic, Magician/Broomstick, Heart of Magician, Upper Red Line, Kinderspeil, and White Out.


----------



## Tin (Jul 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> You would think it would be the total opposite at a place like Magic; that trails that would be closed at your average ski area would be open there.



It's a good thing everything is accessible through woods. We got asked how we got onto a few spots last year by patrol and just said we went in the woods and this is where we came out. They skied away without saying anything.


----------



## slatham (Jul 29, 2015)

Hiked Magic today. There was activity around the work yard and Timber Quest was open. Looked like all of the lower mountain had been mowed, including all the way up Wizard to the bottom of the last (or first when hiking) steep section; the bottom of Sorcerer and Tali, lower magician. And also the bottom sections of all the main east side trails, basically from Wand down. A new work road was built I assume to support the work to build the new cell tower. It goes up the old beginner area and then lower magician then wand and upper carpet. Looked like decent drainage work done. There had also been some trail work done on upper wizard - almost seemed like an effort to widen it a bit - most was on skiers left. Didn't seek anyone out to try to get latest news on operating status etc. But I did duck into a section of glade that I saw last winter needed trimming and it is now ready - hope all goes well this winter with Magic season!


----------



## MMP (Jul 29, 2015)

slatham said:


> Hiked Magic today. There was activity around the work yard and Timber Quest was open. Looked like all of the lower mountain had been mowed, including all the way up Wizard to the bottom of the last (or first when hiking) steep section; the bottom of Sorcerer and Tali, lower magician. And also the bottom sections of all the main east side trails, basically from Wand down. A new work road was built I assume to support the work to build the new cell tower. It goes up the old beginner area and then lower magician then wand and upper carpet. Looked like decent drainage work done. There had also been some trail work done on upper wizard - almost seemed like an effort to widen it a bit - most was on skiers left. Didn't seek anyone out to try to get latest news on operating status etc. But I did duck into a section of glade that I saw last winter needed trimming and it is now ready - hope all goes well this winter with Magic season!



None of that matters without flags. Flags feel good.


----------



## prsboogie (Jul 29, 2015)

MMP said:


> None of that matters without flags. Flags feel good.



Are you always a douche or just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?


----------



## slatham (Jul 29, 2015)

Wow, I am so sorry. Apologies billski. I did make note of the Swiss flag flying in a good wind. It looked great and just needs the two other flags up. Made the place look alive!


----------



## MMP (Jul 29, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Are you always a douche or just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?



Always keep it real. But I can see how you would think that. 

That Swiss flag summit the pole or still down below it?


----------



## chuckstah (Jul 29, 2015)

Although the flags are a great idea, there should not be a Swiss flag without a flag of USA at same height?  Am I wrong?  This is how I was brought up!  Maybe things have changed in the last 50 year's, I hope not.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 29, 2015)

chuckstah said:


> Although the flags are a great idea, there should not be a Swiss flag without a flag of USA at same height?  Am I wrong?  This is how I was brought up!  Maybe things have changed in the last 50 year's, I hope not.



Technically right.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## steamboat1 (Jul 29, 2015)

No the American flag should always be higher.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jul 30, 2015)

MMP said:


> Always keep it real. But I can see how you would think that.
> 
> That Swiss flag summit the pole or still down below it?




It's still waiting for your bucket truck.


----------



## MMP (Jul 31, 2015)

I guess my summer country club is in America. 



The winter one.......lol


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 31, 2015)

I just looked up a 50' bucket truck rental - $300 per day. Honestly, I am half  (but not fully) tempted to give someone the $300 to make this ridiculous argument stop and enable MMP's anger level to go down ...


----------



## skithetrees (Jul 31, 2015)

BTW Bill, I appreciate your efforts and understand your rationale, even if others don't. However, I think the one flag halfway up is worse than none.


----------



## WoodCore (Jul 31, 2015)

Too bad the crews aren't working on the condos anymore. I'm certain a couple ice cold IPA's would have redirected the boom truck to take a side trip down to the flag poles.


----------



## MMP (Aug 1, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> I just looked up a 50' bucket truck rental - $300 per day. Honestly, I am half  (but not fully) tempted to give someone the $300 to make this ridiculous argument stop and enable MMP's anger level to go down ...



Well between you and bill this thing just might get done.  If wishes were horses on dreams we could ride. 

Anger is what you detect? Hardly. I just appreciate follow through more than empty rhetoric, and really think flying the Swiss flag alone looks idiotic. Leaving it like that is a mess that someone else needs to correct.  But hey let's all give each other a reach around and pat each other on the back for our good intentions. 

Feel the pride!


----------



## drjeff (Aug 1, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> I just looked up a 50' bucket truck rental - $300 per day. Honestly, I am half  (but not fully) tempted to give someone the $300 to make this ridiculous argument stop and enable MMP's anger level to go down ...



A crowdfunder project or maybe just a bucket with a picture and a brief explanation in the BLT would get that covered in a few days tops IMHO


----------



## MMP (Aug 2, 2015)

drjeff said:


> A crowdfunder project or maybe just a bucket with a picture and a brief explanation in the BLT would get that covered in a few days tops IMHO



Whoa whoa whoa. Not so fast. This is just throwing up a few flags. Crowd funding? Bucket truck?  Panhandling in the BLT?

How about you just take the Swiss almost flying flag down, and admit that there's no money or interest in resurrecting the flags. Nor people to raise and lower them. Nor replace when tattered. Nor light them. Kumbaya for a nice thought. But isnt it really just silly at this point?  Crowd funding.  Haha.


----------



## MMP (Aug 2, 2015)

One of my dogs photobombed the flag pic. 

I like dogs and kids.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 2, 2015)

I would argue that if you want the flags down, the poles need to come down as well. 

You could volunteer the labor to get it done.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 2, 2015)

Sad state of affairs at Magic if they can't even get 3 flags up a pole.


----------



## MMP (Aug 2, 2015)

Why the heck would they?  Jesus you guys are dense. They can barely pay to heat the lodge. 

Me volunteer the labor? Nah. I'm good.


----------



## MMP (Aug 2, 2015)




----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Aug 2, 2015)

MMP said:


> Why the heck would they?  Jesus you guys are dense. They can barely pay to heat the lodge.
> 
> Me volunteer the labor? Nah. I'm good.



What exactly are you pissed about? It seems like you just rail against whatever gets posted in this thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 2, 2015)

MMP = The Highway Star of Magic


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 2, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> MMP = The Highway Star of Magic



DAMN.  That is some high praise right there.  I hope MMP doesn't let it go to his head!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 2, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> MMP = The Highway Star of Magic





Savemeasammy said:


> DAMN.  That is some high praise right there.  I hope MMP doesn't let it go to his head!


The guy does have a point. How hard is it to get 3 flags up a pole. They didn't even have to buy them Billski donated them. Sad if you ask me. Same chit as when I have to change the clothes line for my wife, yes she still uses it. What's the problem?

Maybe they need another string donation. Sad.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 2, 2015)

The problem is MMP thinks Billski should pay to have the poles fixed and that Magic shouldn't be squandering resources on flags.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 2, 2015)

I think it's a tragic symbol of Magic's ongoing financial struggles. It would probably make more sense if the flag was flying upside down


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 2, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> The problem is MMP thinks Billski should pay to have the poles fixed and that Magic shouldn't be squandering resources on flags.


Yeah I'm sure that costs a lot. Sad. The more I read about the place the less likely I am to ever go back there. Maybe after a dump but I'd still be worried if the lift (yes one) will be operational.


----------



## MMP (Aug 3, 2015)

When the red chair needed painting, save magic didn't raise half the money, buy the paint, drop it off at the lodge and expect magic (with their DEFICIT BUDGET ) to follow through and find the resources to finish. 

Not skiing at magic while they're open is biting off your nose to spite your face. Red ran great last year and afaik the only shutdown was electrical and that was town-wide.


----------



## Smellytele (Aug 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> View attachment 17233
> 
> When the red chair needed painting, save magic didn't raise half the money, buy the paint, drop it off at the lodge and expect magic (with their DEFICIT BUDGET ) to follow through and find the resources to finish.
> 
> Not skiing at magic while they're open is biting off your nose to spite your face. Red ran great last year and afaik the only shutdown was electrical and that was town-wide.



I was there when the red went down last year and it was not electrical. It was down for 2-3 hours in the middle of the day. Something happened at the bottom wheel house and it smelt like burnt rubber and was smoking. I was actually standing looking back to get on the next chair when it came to a screeching halt.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 4, 2015)

You are a better troll than Donald Trump


----------



## MMP (Aug 4, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> I was there when the red went down last year and it was not electrical. It was down for 2-3 hours in the middle of the day. Something happened at the bottom wheel house and it smelt like burnt rubber and was smoking. I was actually standing looking back to get on the next chair when it came to a screeching halt.



Right. How many wind holds?




MadMadWorld said:


> You are a better troll than Donald Trump



It's summer.


----------



## vonski (Aug 4, 2015)

I was there on a Saturday last year and the lift did break down for not quite 2 hours.  They were able to off load everyone and get it back going again by 2 or so.  And there is never a windhold.  Magic was awesome last year once the snow came.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 4, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> You are a better troll than Donald Trump



I bet his phone is full of flag pictures for this thread........

Are they selling season passes yet?


----------



## mbedle (Aug 4, 2015)

Yes - season passes are onsale.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 4, 2015)

mbedle said:


> Yes - season passes are onsale.


Better hurry early season pricing ends 8/10.


----------



## marcski (Aug 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Better hurry early season pricing ends 8/10.


Why shit on a place that you've never been to or only have limited experience with?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 4, 2015)

marcski said:


> Why shit on a place that you've never been to or only have limited experience with?



You clearly don't know how steamboat1 works...


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 4, 2015)

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002827721/491656976_troll20spray_xlarge.jpeg


----------



## MMP (Aug 4, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002827721/491656976_troll20spray_xlarge.jpeg



Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## MMP (Aug 4, 2015)




----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 4, 2015)

marcski said:


> Why shit on a place that you've never been to or only have limited experience with?


How's that shitting on the place? It's a statement of fact.

Goes up $100 after 8/10

Love my fans.

Probably skied Magic more than most here, although it's been awhile.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 4, 2015)

Actually there's been talk on other sites whether to buy a pass now or not by the Magic faithful. Seems to be a question of not only will it open or not this season but who's going to own it. Legitimate questions I think.

Current owner did stiff those who thought monies they put in were some type of coop. Who's to say they wouldn't do it again? Maybe some of you can kick in $200 each to fix the grips on the black chair. Heard they ain't swinging to well. Heck it was only $200 a chair to paint the red.

Sad.

Now that's shitting on the place. Well deserved I think.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 4, 2015)

If you don't ski there, don't shit there either is what people are saying.  

No one here cares to read that bullshit about Magic, Sugarbush or anywhere else you repeatedly attempt to crap on.

Stick to Killington......


----------



## marcski (Aug 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Actually there's been talk on other sites whether to buy a pass now or not by the Magic faithful. Seems to be a question of not only will it open or not this season but who's going to own it. Legitimate questions I think.
> 
> Current owner did stiff those who thought monies they put in were some type of coop. Who's to say they wouldn't do it again? Maybe some of you can kick in $200 each to fix the grips on the black chair. Heard they ain't swinging to well. Heck it was only $200 a chair to paint the red.
> 
> ...


It was $100 per chair to paint the Red lift.  I'd easily put another $100 in for the "Save Magic" crew to fix the black chair if needed.

When everyone around you, at least on this site, starts to feel and say the same things...maybe you should take a hard look in the mirror.


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If you don't ski there, don't shit there either is what people are saying.
> 
> 
> Stick to KillingtonZONE......



Fixed it for you.


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Current owner did stiff those who thought monies they put in were some type of coop. Who's to say they wouldn't do it again.



Different owner.  People were given the option of getting their money back. It's called facts. 

That's not to say the whole situation wasn't poorly managed, but the current owner wanted distance from that operator long before any of that happened.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 5, 2015)

The fact of the matter is there is a group trying to buy Magic.  Unfortunately one of the parties in the seller group (there are several) is dragging his feet.  Hopefully this will get resolved soon so the new owners can complete preparations for the upcoming season.

While cautious, I am extremely excited about this & a new chapter @ Magic!

Buying passes now will only mean transferring funds to the new group later.  I am holding off on passes for that reason.  Everyone will be aware if & when anything changes.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 5, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Different owner.  People were given the option of getting their money back. It's called facts.
> 
> That's not to say the whole situation wasn't poorly managed, but the current owner wanted distance from that operator long before any of that happened.


Not from what I heard. The money was spent, the question was where did it all go. It's my understanding that the present operator was indeed involved with Magic previously.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If you don't ski there, don't shit there either is what people are saying.
> 
> No one here cares to read that bullshit about Magic, Sugarbush or anywhere else you repeatedly attempt to crap on.
> 
> Stick to Killington......


Oh but it's perfectly alright for people that don't ski K to crap on it.

Now I understand.

Actually I ski Sugarbush quite a bit & like the place. Skied a lot at Magic with the original owners but I think I've only been there twice since it's rebirth.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Oh but it's perfectly alright for people that don't ski K to crap on it.
> 
> Now I understand.



If you find such an example, feel free to call that person out.

I don't see anyone repeatedly trolling Killington who doesn't ski there like you do with Magic.


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Not from what I heard. The money was spent, the question was where did it all go. It's my understanding that the present operator was indeed involved with Magic previously.



Not quite true. Project was originally pitched as a co-op, but poor planning by and, frankly, an inexcusable lck of knowledge from someone that should have known better, made that not feasible. At that point, the decision was made to turn it into a club. People were given the option of getting their money back. Many chose to do so, many didn't. At that point, the benefits of the club were so small that it was essentially a donation by people with a vested interest in the mountain staying open (I.e., homeowners). That money was spent and the oversight concerns you mentioned were raised. That said, I don't think any money was stolen. Rather, the intended process wasn't followed. At that point, the amount of money was so small that it went to necessary maintenance and keeping the lights on. I think a lot of the controversy arose from the fact that people expected it would have gone further. 

The current operator has been a part owner of the mountain for a long time and, during that time, has seen numerous operators come and go. He never had any substantive input with any of them. That is an important point to make clear. I think frustrations with the mistakes of others is what finally led him to step up this year and take over.


----------



## MMP (Aug 5, 2015)

Will you assholes focus?


----------



## farlep99 (Aug 5, 2015)

I hear Saddleback is struggling.  MMP, I assume you'll be donating flags for them?  I hear Maine is nice this time of year


----------



## MMP (Aug 5, 2015)

Flags for everyone!!!!


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> Flags for everyone!!!!



Don't early purchasers of passes get a free flag with their purchase?


----------



## MMP (Aug 5, 2015)

The first full price pass purchase gets a Swiss flag. (BYOBT)


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2015)

So can anyone give us any information as to who the potential new owners are and their plans?


----------



## MMP (Aug 5, 2015)

Vail   

Flag poles are their primary concern.


----------



## mbedle (Aug 5, 2015)

I wonder if the real estate is for sale or just the operating lease.


----------



## MMP (Aug 5, 2015)

WTF? 



whenever I see a screwed up flag I'm going to refer to it as a Billski.  Like Banksy, but worthless.


----------



## AdironRider (Aug 5, 2015)

Arent they being investigated by the SEC for their little coop fiasco? You people really have your heads in the sand.


----------



## jrmagic (Aug 5, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Arent they being investigated by the SEC for their little coop fiasco? You people really have your heads in the sand.



Better than having our heads shoved up our asses.


----------



## MMP (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 5, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Arent they being investigated by the SEC for their little coop fiasco? You people really have your heads in the sand.




Who are THEY???  He who is being investigated was an operator of the mountain not an owner. He has been replaced. The situation with ownership is a bit complicated. Before making general derogatory statements, you should have some idea of what you are talking about. Talk about having your head in the sand....


----------



## AdironRider (Aug 5, 2015)

Is a bit complicated? It is pretty cut and dry, they are inept, and you homers keep giving them money to blow. 

Are they giving you guys blow jobs or something at these work days?


----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> WTF?
> 
> View attachment 17245
> 
> whenever I see a screwed up flag I'm going to refer to it as a Billski.  Like Banksy, but worthless.





It's really sad when someone - here billski - tries to do a good deed and gets crucified for doing it. It's not his fault that the ropes on the poles were screwed up and getting them fixed is no easy matter- unless you can provide the bucket truck.


----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 5, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Is a bit complicated? It is pretty cut and dry, they are inept, and you homers keep giving them money to blow.
> 
> Are they giving you guys blow jobs or something at these work days?



No. Are you volunteering?


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 5, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Is a bit complicated? It is pretty cut and dry, they are inept, and you homers keep giving them money to blow.
> 
> Are they giving you guys blow jobs or something at these work days?



It's pretty obvious that those who ski there would rather put up with the inept management they have and keep its old school feel than have someone with big bucks come in and turn the place into another southern VT McSkiarea.

The people bitching the most about the place in this thread are like yourself, not Magic customers.  Why do you care what Magic fans spend their money on?


----------



## Tin (Aug 5, 2015)

New management, old management, flags, no flags, Magic will survive.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Arent they being investigated by the SEC for their little coop fiasco? You people really have your heads in the sand.



Is he?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## CrazyFingers (Aug 5, 2015)

It's a great fucking hill.  I really don't care what flags you fly at the end of the day.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 5, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Better than having our heads shoved up our asses.


Hey JR where you been?


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 5, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> It's really sad when someone - here billski - tries to do a good deed and gets crucified for doing it. It's not his fault that the ropes on the poles were screwed up and getting them fixed is no easy matter- unless you can provide the bucket truck.


What's so hard about changing a clothes line?

Jeeze!

Kudos to billski, not his fault these magicians can't figure out how to change a clothes line.


----------



## vonski (Aug 5, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Is he?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I am not sure!  But why People had faith in this guy in the first place was beyond me.  He was dishonest in CT and took his lying ways to Vermont with him.  I never understood why people gave to the COOP.  I guess it was Magic.   Here is a link to some history on him!
http://www.tremontsheldon.com/News-...ney-left-state-after-misleading-clients.shtml


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 5, 2015)

vonski said:


> I am not sure!  But why People had faith in this guy in the first place was beyond me.  He was dishonest in CT and took his lying ways to Vermont with him.  I never understood why people gave to the COOP.  I guess it was Magic.   Here is a link to some history on him!
> http://www.tremontsheldon.com/News-...ney-left-state-after-misleading-clients.shtml



My thoughts exactly. I thought he was in over his head from day one.


----------



## MMP (Aug 6, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> It's really sad when someone - here billski - tries to do a good deed and gets crucified for doing it. It's not his fault that the ropes on the poles were screwed up and getting them fixed is no easy matter- unless you can provide the bucket truck.



Crucified? Let's not get hysterical. 



steamboat1 said:


> What's so hard about changing a clothes line?
> 
> Jeeze!
> 
> Kudos to billski, not his fault these magicians can't figure out how to change a clothes line.



Again, for the 5th time (since you're slow); you have a sense of entitlement that allows the type of thinking that has magic diverting their limited resources for a project that was undertaken by someone that however well intentioned, did not follow through. You want flags? Pay to have the poles fixed. Don't act like magic is at fault for not being able to fix poles,or have a bucket truck hired, or in any way should be on the hook for these flags. 

And flying a Swiss flag (nazi sympathizers)is offensive. So fuck off.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 6, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Actually there's been talk on other sites whether to buy a pass now or not by the Magic faithful. Seems to be a question of not only will it open or not this season but who's going to own it. Legitimate questions I think.
> 
> Current owner did stiff those who thought monies they put in were some type of coop. Who's to say they wouldn't do it again? Maybe some of you can kick in $200 each to fix the grips on the black chair. Heard they ain't swinging to well. Heck it was only $200 a chair to paint the red.
> 
> ...






This cracks me up.  High-handed speculation that snowballs itself into even bigger speculation on the part of the assuming party is my favorite kind.  I'd step in and set you straight on your MASSIVE assumptions and grandeur-related butthurt here but it's just too much fun to watch you do the proverbial "backseat wedge down Black Magic" haha...  Watch out though man, there's at least two mandatory airs ahead of you  ;-)


BTW, it was only $100 per chair for Red and that was "highly publicized".  That would be an indicator to most normal people that they don't really know what they're talking about but I digress...  Carry on  :flag:     


Good to see some familiar faces on this side of the interwebz though.  Thanks to Rourke for sending me the link to this thread, I likely would have never seen it.  Having shared some insight and some very encouraging phone calls with pertinent parties, I'm extremely excited at this new Management team and their overall mission.  I will be up there this weekend so I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty again and of course enjoying the requisite cold ones on the deck.


----------



## MMP (Aug 6, 2015)

WWGBD?  Put his flag up, or wait for the government to do it? (Ok, maybe that wasn't the best example )


----------



## MMP (Aug 6, 2015)

Do Work said:


> This cracks me up.  High-handed speculation that snowballs itself into even bigger speculation on the part of the assuming party is my favorite kind.  I'd step in and set you straight on your MASSIVE assumptions and grandeur-related butthurt here but it's just too much fun to watch you do the proverbial "backseat wedge down Black Magic" haha...  Watch out though man, there's at least two mandatory airs ahead of you  ;-)
> 
> 
> BTW, it was only $100 per chair for Red and that was "highly publicized".  That would be an indicator to most normal people that they don't really know what they're talking about but I digress...  Carry on  :flag:
> ...



Split a bucket truck?


----------



## Tin (Aug 6, 2015)

Do Work, please bring with you that awesome avatar from TGR.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 6, 2015)

MMP said:


> Crucified? Let's not get hysterical.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, for the 5th time (since you're slow); you have a sense of entitlement that allows the type of thinking that has magic diverting their limited resources for a project that was undertaken by someone that however well intentioned, did not follow through. You want flags? Pay to have the poles fixed. Don't act like magic is at fault for not being able to fix poles,or have a bucket truck hired, or in any way should be on the hook for these flags.



Well said.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 6, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Having shared some insight and some very encouraging phone calls with pertinent parties, I'm extremely excited at this new Management team and their overall mission.



So when will there be a public release of said mission?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 7, 2015)

MMP said:


> WWGBD?  Put his flag up, or wait for the government to do it? (Ok, maybe that wasn't the best example )View attachment 17259
> 
> View attachment 17260



What would Glenn Beck do?


----------



## makimono (Aug 7, 2015)

I'm guessing that's George Bush's compound in Maine


----------



## Do Work (Aug 7, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> So when will there be a public release of said mission?





I wish I knew!  Legality and paperwork stuff is about as far from my area of expertise as humanly possible.  I run far and fast from any lawyer-type things.  I'm just here to keep fixing stuff, clean trees and maybe save a broken person or two.   :beer:


----------



## MMP (Aug 7, 2015)

Do work, will the flagpoles be on the work day agenda. That would shut me right up. Winky.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 7, 2015)

MMP said:


> And flying a Swiss flag (nazi sympathizers)is offensive. So fuck off.



Is this the real reason you're upset? Cuz it's a Swiss flag?


----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 7, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I wish I knew!  Legality and paperwork stuff is about as far from my area of expertise as humanly possible.  I run far and fast from any lawyer-type things.  I'm just here to keep fixing stuff, clean trees and maybe save a broken person or two.   :beer:




Is is this a done deal or are they still negotiating? I heard there was a hold out who didn't want to sell...


----------



## MMP (Aug 9, 2015)




----------



## Do Work (Aug 10, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> Is is this a done deal or are they still negotiating? I heard there was a hold out who didn't want to sell...





Like I said before, I am not a lawyer and I'm not directly involved in the deal so I could only speculate and I don't want to do that for fear of passing along incorrect information.  All I know is that there is a veritable blizzard of work being done in anticipation of a switch over in ownership and some staffing.  Lots of small things that would add up to a big overall impact should be happening for this season- and I've heard talk of a few big things in the works as well, but we will see if/when they happen.  I'm extremely optimistic though, and _especially_ in terms of Patrol, Ski School, Snowmaking and Lifts.  

Just wax the skis up and be ready for a banger season, my man.  If your location is true then you are in for a great season- and more than likely some of Miss Tammy's french toast muffins too.  


I can almost smell the pow slayage now!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Like I said before, I am not a lawyer and I'm not directly involved in the deal so I could only speculate and I don't want to do that for fear of passing along incorrect information.  All I know is that there is a veritable blizzard of work being done in anticipation of a switch over in ownership and some staffing.  Lots of small things that would add up to a big overall impact should be happening for this season- and I've heard talk of a few big things in the works as well, but we will see if/when they happen.  I'm extremely optimistic though, and _especially_ in terms of Patrol, Ski School, Snowmaking and Lifts.
> 
> Just wax the skis up and be ready for a banger season, my man.  If your location is true then you are in for a great season- and more than likely some of Miss Tammy's french toast muffins too.
> 
> ...



Please say there is someone else in charge of patrol....


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 10, 2015)

I had the urge to take some flag pole photos this weekend.  I need to stop reading this thread.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 10, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Please say there is someone else in charge of patrol....





Absolutely.  Look for big changes in Patrol staffing and protocol this year.


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Like I said before, I am not a lawyer and I'm not directly involved in the deal so I could only speculate and I don't want to do that for fear of passing along incorrect information.  All I know is that there is a veritable blizzard of work being done in anticipation of a switch over in ownership and some staffing.  Lots of small things that would add up to a big overall impact should be happening for this season- and I've heard talk of a few big things in the works as well, but we will see if/when they happen.  I'm extremely optimistic though, and _especially_ in terms of Patrol, Ski School, Snowmaking and Lifts.
> 
> Just wax the skis up and be ready for a banger season, my man.  If your location is true then you are in for a great season- and more than likely some of Miss Tammy's french toast muffins too.
> 
> ...



I can feel the chill now, nice stoke DW!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Absolutely.  Look for big changes in Patrol staffing and protocol this year.



That's all I needed to hear. Thank god someone intervened! It was getting out of hand.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 10, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> I can feel the chill now, nice stoke DW!



A re-post I'm sure.  DoWork feeling the chill....


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Aug 10, 2015)

What's the deal with Black Magic? I went to ski it from the top of black chair once last winter and a patroller in the shack immediately yelled for me to stop. I turned around, engaged in conversation and was told by the guy that it's permanently closed above Black Line, by the state of VT, due to the chairs being too close to the ground. 

BM was not roped off, black chair was not running, and coverage was pretty thick that day.  

Is BM really permanently closed or is this another example of ski patrol antics ppl are complaining about and hopefully will change?


----------



## slatham (Aug 10, 2015)

I think that patrol went too far when the VT tram dept said "No Black this year". So patrol closed everything with the word "Black" in it. They then butchered the "black n white cookies" in the lodge, and had all the "Black Amber" beer removed from BLT. They even told Chris to not accept orders for a Black and Tan. Luckily they didn't realize the BLT is actually called the Black Line Tavern or they would have shut that too! (Not sure why they thought it was named after a sandwich).

Power mongers, at Magic no less......


----------



## Do Work (Aug 10, 2015)

skifastr said:


> What's the deal with Black Magic? I went to ski it from the top of black chair once last winter and a patroller in the shack immediately yelled for me to stop. I turned around, engaged in conversation and was told by the guy that it's permanently closed above Black Line, by the state of VT, due to the chairs being too close to the ground.
> 
> BM was not roped off, black chair was not running, and coverage was pretty thick that day.
> 
> Is BM really permanently closed or is this another example of ski patrol antics ppl are complaining about and hopefully will change?




I am not positive on that tbh, I've heard the same about the state tramway authority closing it a la uppermost Red but I feel as though there may be options.  Also if it wasn't running at the time, they're pretty much blowing smoke up your ass- there was a lot of that happening with patrol this year and nobody liked it.  Management, skiers and coaches included...  Hence the eagerness to fix the situation.  


My only major request at the BLT next year is for them to actually offer a goddam BLT haha. 


Rusty, I am seriously chomping at the bit...  Everyday I walk past my skis and give them a nod, a wink and a loving caress.  I might even whisper "soon" to them if the wife isn't in the room.


----------



## farlep99 (Aug 10, 2015)

skiNEwhere said:


> Is this the real reason you're upset? Cuz it's a Swiss flag?



MMP is a well-known anti-Swiss bigot


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 10, 2015)

farlep99 said:


> MMP is a well-known anti-Swiss bigot



He took me out last year just after the bunny slope.  Pretty sure I heard a "DIE FRANZ" in there when he did.


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 10, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> A re-post I'm sure.  DoWork feeling the chill....



DAYHUM - nice faceshot! Some pretty fancy lens work there too RG


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Everyday I walk past my skis and give them a nod, a wink and a loving caress.  I might even whisper "soon" to them if the wife isn't in the room.



I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who does this. 



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## makimono (Aug 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> My only major request at the BLT next year is for them to actually offer a goddam BLT haha.



Mmmm....I'd like to see crispy bacon strips be a full time addition to the Sunday morning bloody mary bar...heck I'd even donate the bacon but I wouldn't want to put the BLT staff through all that extra expense and work of finding a bucket to put it in.


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 10, 2015)

In all seriousness, I have to groms that are 7 and 9 and I have yet to make it up there because of the, well extreme rep of the place. I have to get there this year for sure but I almost never go skiing without them. I have no doubt there is terrain there for them but is it enough for them to ski the whole day? They do a pretty damn good job and really aren't fearful of trying new stuff but I also want them to  have an enjoyable day. Billski did a nice write up about the family aspect of the place and I love the stoke and witty banter of the mags and really need to be part of the party. Thoughts?


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 10, 2015)

My guys at Ragged Mountain This past February


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 10, 2015)

skifastr said:


> What's the deal with Black Magic? I went to ski it from the top of black chair once last winter and a patroller in the shack immediately yelled for me to stop. I turned around, engaged in conversation and was told by the guy that it's permanently closed above Black Line, by the state of VT, due to the chairs being too close to the ground.
> 
> BM was not roped off, black chair was not running, and coverage was pretty thick that day.
> 
> Is BM really permanently closed or is this another example of ski patrol antics ppl are complaining about and hopefully will change?



Well if that is case then Madonna Liftline and the upper part of Lookout at Stowe would be closed as well (I know that part is only open when chair isn't running).

With that being said, Black Magic requires not just a shit load of snow bit the heavy compact kind. The trail is pretty much one big rocky ledge. I skied it a few times on a 60 degree spring day a couple of years ago and it's quite a challenge. I only skied it that day because the snow was great and the bear spots were the only places you needed to avoid. Black was running that day so I was able to pick my lines ahead of time. I probably wouldn't have skied it otherwise. For the record, it was closed that day but because of Magic's boundary to boundary policy I just entered through the woods a little further down. Patrol saw me and didn't give a shit at all. I think a few even cheered me on from the lift. 

I have a pic or two from a TR.


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Aug 10, 2015)

^^^ Just repeating what I was told by a patrol. At the I found the story hard to believe as well but didn't have much power to argue.


----------



## Tin (Aug 10, 2015)

skifastr said:


> ^^^ Just repeating what I was told by a patrol. At the I found the story hard to believe as well but didn't have much power to argue.




Upon skiing some stuff MMW, Savemeasammy, and myself were asked by a patrol member if we were stupid. Since it was a question and not an authoritative statement about us ducking I didn't mind.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 10, 2015)

Tin said:


> Upon skiing some stuff MMW, Savemeasammy, and myself were asked by a patrol member if we were stupid. Since it was a question and not an authoritative statement about us ducking I didn't mind.



It would be hard to argue with her if it was a statement!


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 10, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> It would be hard to argue with her if it was a statement!



Like ski patrol at MRG telling us we were stupid when we got cliffed out and that they didn't like plucking people like us out of the woods after 3.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 10, 2015)

Yea that probably wasn't the best idea but these kind of things happen when you are with a rowdy group


----------



## Do Work (Aug 10, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> In all seriousness, I have to groms that are 7 and 9 and I have yet to make it up there because of the, well extreme rep of the place. I have to get there this year for sure but I almost never go skiing without them. I have no doubt there is terrain there for them but is it enough for them to ski the whole day? They do a pretty damn good job and really aren't fearful of trying new stuff but I also want them to  have an enjoyable day. Billski did a nice write up about the family aspect of the place and I love the stoke and witty banter of the mags and really need to be part of the party. Thoughts?




Don't hold back, the kids would love it.  We have two- last year they were 8 & 10 and they were total beginners.  They could barely get anywhere on skis.  Long story short they caught on really quickly and never want to ski anywhere else now.  If your kids are decent skiers they will be totally fine right off the bat.  One thing that is hugely underrated is the lack of people going downhill around you which means you aren't threading needles in a crowd and they don't have to worry about being crushed from behind by a flailer.  In that sense, that can be on more challenging terrain and simply work on it at their own speed without external factors messing with their progress.  It helps a ton.  

The more adventurous they want to get the more there will be for them too. The east side has tons (even kid friendly trees!) and Wizard is friendlier than it gets credit for so they can feel like badasses for skiing the West side.  Also if they can ski on their own it's great because all the trails empty down to the same spot.  Tubing is fully visible from the bar haha...  It's a friendly place.  The kids will have a blast and more than likely there will be other kids to pair them up with.


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Don't hold back, the kids would love it.  We have two- last year they were 8 & 10 and they were total beginners.  They could barely get anywhere on skis.  Long story short they caught on really quickly and never want to ski anywhere else now.  If your kids are decent skiers they will be totally fine right off the bat.  One thing that is hugely underrated is the lack of people going downhill around you which means you aren't threading needles in a crowd and they don't have to worry about being crushed from behind by a flailer.  In that sense, that can be on more challenging terrain and simply work on it at their own speed without external factors messing with their progress.  It helps a ton.
> 
> The more adventurous they want to get the more there will be for them too. The east side has tons (even kid friendly trees!) and Wizard is friendlier than it gets credit for so they can feel like badasses for skiing the West side.  Also if they can ski on their own it's great because all the trails empty down to the same spot.  Tubing is fully visible from the bar haha...  It's a friendly place.  The kids will have a blast and more than likely there will be other kids to pair them up with.



Beer is good, not getting crushed by some jucket would be fabulous. My daughter got taken out by some jackass last season at Stratton, to the point she quit for the day. Nearly ripped the d-bags head off until I realized it would prove nothing and horrify my kids.  The mountain was really good for them but I won't be rushing back there after that. And it was not just that, lots of little things. 

I will definitely hit it up this year though, gotta do it! Hopefully we have a repeat of last season. Thanks for the beta!!


----------



## dlague (Aug 10, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Our skis are hanging in the living room so I see them every day!




Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


----------



## jrmagic (Aug 10, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Beer is good, not getting crushed by some jucket would be fabulous. My daughter got taken out by some jackass last season at Stratton, to the point she quit for the day. Nearly ripped the d-bags head off until I realized it would prove nothing and horrify my kids.  The mountain was really good for them but I won't be rushing back there after that. And it was not just that, lots of little things.
> 
> I will definitely hit it up this year though, gotta do it! Hopefully we have a repeat of last season. Thanks for the beta!!



Definitely do it. I watched the Do work groms go from tow rope to lift and they did great. My kids learned to ski at Magic and I can't think of many better places once they are lift ready. Uncrowded slopes are very kids friendly and there is plenty to hold their attention. Hope to see you there this winter. Nice pic Rusty. Not sure what happened but after Do works post my phone had a mind of its own and gave me a video of Dowork skiing black magic to sex machine lol! Talk about August stoke!!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 11, 2015)

Grom DeDoWork can guide.  Seriously, the kids will love it.





prsboogie said:


> My guys at Ragged Mountain This past February


----------



## Do Work (Aug 11, 2015)

Haha yeah I'd say he enjoyed himself this year to say the least.


----------



## slatham (Aug 11, 2015)

I would go for it prsboogie. I would add to the above that Magic has much more groomed terrain than people realize. When they have enough snow for all the beginner and intermediate terrain to be open there are tons of options for the kids, most of it groomed. And the lack of crowds on the trail cannot be underestimated.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 11, 2015)

Not to mention the single base area....

And the really cool family vibe...


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 11, 2015)

slatham said:


> I would go for it prsboogie. I would add to the above that Magic has much more groomed terrain than people realize. When they have enough snow for all the beginner and intermediate terrain to be open there are tons of options for the kids, most of it groomed. And the lack of crowds on the trail cannot be underestimated.



OK I'm in!! I'm sure I could use some tourage as well!! Haven't skied with anyone over the age of 8 in 4 years since starting skiing again after 18 off!


----------



## MMP (Aug 11, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> OK I'm in!! I'm sure I could use some tourage as well!! Haven't skied with anyone over the age of 8 in 4 years since starting skiing again after 18 off!  [emoji32]



Meet you at the flagpoles!!


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 11, 2015)

Burn!!!


----------



## slatham (Aug 11, 2015)

MMP will be easy to spot - he'll be up in the bucket truck - with Billski of course!;-)


----------



## JamaicaMan (Aug 17, 2015)

Wedding at Magic this weekend was beautiful and TimberQuest was packed 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 18, 2015)

I heard the wedding was beautiful.  On another note.

http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php


----------



## Tin (Aug 18, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I heard the wedding was beautiful.  On another note.
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php




Awesome stuff. Sounds like the new passes will be cheaper than the old though, no?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 18, 2015)

Sounds great and all but we've heard this song and dance before. I'm curious to hear who the ownership group is...


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 18, 2015)

Don't know much about the new owners. But know that work has been ongoing for both lifts and all the chairs are coming off this week.


----------



## slatham (Aug 18, 2015)

Thanks for posting Rusty, hadn't seen it yet. Very familiar with the group and plans and if they raised the capital they aimed for and can implement the plan this will significantly ratchet up what Magic can offer. Fingers crossed!

As for that picture, I don't think the lodge has ever looked that nice!

Looking forward to volunteer day!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 18, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Sounds great and all but we've heard this song and dance before. I'm curious to hear who the ownership group is...



I know & agree.  I'm sick of myself saying it.  Don't shoot the messenger. Although I deserve it @ this point.


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 18, 2015)

slatham said:


> Thanks for posting Rusty, hadn't seen it yet. Very familiar with the group and plans and if they raised the capital they aimed for and can implement the plan this will significantly ratchet up what Magic can offer. Fingers crossed!
> 
> As for that picture, I don't think the lodge has ever looked that nice!
> 
> Looking forward to volunteer day!



Can you elaborate at all?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 18, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I know & agree.  I'm sick of myself saying it.  Don't shoot the messenger. Although I deserve it @ this point.



Lol no worries John. I am hopeful that things change!


----------



## slatham (Aug 18, 2015)

Can't comment - it was in confidence, and I don't want to jinx it!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 18, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Lol no worries John. I am hopeful that things change!



Who the hell is John? Us Magic losers can get confusing.  I think you're thinking of JRMagic.


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 18, 2015)

slatham said:


> Can't comment - it was in confidence, and I don't want to jinx it!



Totally understand. Is the identity of the group also under wraps at the moment?


----------



## Magic (Aug 18, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Totally understand. Is the identity of the group also under wraps at the moment?



Fingers are crossed for this to be finalized. I hope they honor the Magic Faithful discount....


----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 18, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Who the hell is John? Us Magic losers can get confusing.  I think you're thinking of JRMagic.



Your name will be John, if this doesn't happen


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 18, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Who the hell is John? Us Magic losers can get confusing.  I think you're thinking of JRMagic.



Yeaaaa my bad George


----------



## Tin (Aug 18, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Yeaaaa my bad George





JorgeGroomer?


----------



## makimono (Aug 18, 2015)




----------



## MMP (Aug 19, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Who the hell is John? Us Magic losers can get confusing.  I think you're thinking of JRMagic.



Johnny!!!!


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 19, 2015)

makimono said:


>



Aaaahhh fond memories !!! When cartoons were cartoons.


----------



## jrmagic (Aug 19, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Yeaaaa my bad George



Lol you are getting closer


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 19, 2015)

MMP said:


> Johnny!!!!



Reggie!!!


----------



## prsboogie (Aug 19, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Reggie!!!



Juan? Lol


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 24, 2015)

http://www.ropeways.net/rn/index.ph...tel=Magic Mountain Announces Ownership Change


ropeways.net | Home | 2015-08-20
[h=1]Magic Mountain Announces Ownership Change[/h]*Deal is expected to close later this summer.*
In an August 18 Alpine Update, Magic Mountain announced season pass sales have been temporarily suspended so that an ownership and management change can take place.
As originally reported on NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com on July 7, former Vice President of Marketing at Magic Geoffrey Hatheway formed Ski Magic LLC on May 6, 2015. Meanwhile, property owner Thomas Barker's Magic Mountain Resorts, LLC, which operated the cash-strapped area during the 2014-15 season, was quietly terminated as a Vermont business entity on March 16, 2015. Magic Mountain remained in operation through April 18.
Hatheway was Vice President of Marketing at Magic from June of 2011 through September of 2014 before departing for New York based Indelible Planet. According to his LinkedIn profile, the 1981 Dartmouth College graduate "*uilt record skier visit and revenue years in both 2013 and 2014 by uniquely positioning Magic as an enthusiast mountain with a retro, laid-back, community ski vibe" as head of marketing and sales.**
According to the Alpine Update, "the new owners will honor all season passes purchased this year," and "[w]hen the purchase happens, the new company will offer new passes for sale at what would traditionally be "early bird" spring pricing as a way of thanking you for your patience during this tranistion [sic]."
The Alpine Update goes on to state, "e assured that the new ownership group is committed to not only a purchase of Magic but a long-term investment in its infrastructure to improve your ski experience (more snowmaking and fully operational lift system)."
Located in Londonderry, Vermont, Magic Mountain was originally opened in 1960-61 by Hans Thorner. In recent decades, the area has been plagued by financial problems, including a 6 year closure during the 1990s. Magic currently advertises a 1,700 foot vertical drop serviced by two chairlifts.*


----------



## skithetrees (Aug 24, 2015)

Interesting. Is the mountain actually being sold?  It's basically had the same owners over the last decade, with management changes. Will there be a completely new slate of owners?


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 24, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> http://www.ropeways.net/rn/index.ph...tel=Magic Mountain Announces Ownership Change
> 
> 
> ropeways.net | Home | 2015-08-20
> ...


*

So the former marketing guy is the new owner, or one of the new owner(s)?*


----------



## Do Work (Aug 25, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Interesting. Is the mountain actually being sold?  It's basically had the same owners over the last decade, with management changes. Will there be a completely new slate of owners?




Yes, new owners altogether.  




thetrailboss said:


> So the former marketing guy is the new owner, or one of the new owner(s)?




No.  Time will tell all details though, so try to stay patient.  Once things go through fully there will be a lot to discuss.


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## makimono (Aug 25, 2015)

So jonesin' to get rip-tastic at the new Mag-astic...know if any volly dates been set up yet DW?


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## Do Work (Aug 25, 2015)

makimono said:


> So jonesin' to get rip-tastic at the new Mag-astic...know if any volly dates been set up yet DW?





Two dates should be up soon.  Sept & Oct weekends.  I can't wait!!


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## MMP (Aug 25, 2015)

Prioritize those flags please


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## makimono (Aug 25, 2015)

I'll bring a bosun's chair and block & tackle and rig those things right....I'm thinking if we run a clothesline to the office window then nobody would even have to go outside to take the flags down, then it wouldn't be so much work right?


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## makimono (Aug 25, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Two dates should be up soon.  Sept & Oct weekends.  I can't wait!!



Nice me too, hope I can make them both!


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## Magic (Aug 25, 2015)

makimono said:


> Nice me too, hope I can make them both!



I just hope the new owners bring in their own people to start fresh. There were so many blatant management issues through the years that were clearly noticeable to us all. A store that was closed peak times on weekends, skiers with no tickets, bar that sometimes charged and sometimes didn't, and no communication updates such as bands, activities, calendar updates, etc. All of this impacts the impression of the mountain for newcomers to give us those repeat visitors we need. Well, I guess millionaire owners should know all this so I shouldn't worry right.


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## makimono (Aug 25, 2015)

Seriously! 

At the last volunteer day last year we had to negotiate on our own for a free beer at the bar! In hindsight it should have been clear the end was nigh 


Thinking back to Jim's first year in charge, on his first volunteer day he came with one of those 100 Quart coolers full of 6 different types of beer packed in slushy ice. :beer:


So I'll reserve judgement on this new crew until I see how they treat their volunteers (I hope they read AZ )


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## Magic (Aug 26, 2015)

makimono said:


> Seriously!
> 
> At the last volunteer day last year we had to negotiate on our own for a free beer at the bar! In hindsight it should have been clear the end was nigh
> 
> ...



Of course they should roll out the red carpet for the volunteers, but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Unless they change the daily nonsense we all saw and grumbled about, the outcome will not be good. But hey, I am a positive person and expecting great things from the new ownership. I am sure there will be plenty of us magic faithful to voice our opinion


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## Sorcerer (Aug 26, 2015)

Magic said:


> I just hope the new owners bring in their own people to start fresh. There were so many blatant management issues through the years that were clearly noticeable to us all. A store that was closed peak times on weekends, skiers with no tickets, bar that sometimes charged and sometimes didn't, and no communication updates such as bands, activities, calendar updates, etc. All of this impacts the impression of the mountain for newcomers to give us those repeat visitors we need. Well, I guess millionaire owners should know all this so I shouldn't worry right.




I think the problems mentioned were, in ,good part, the reason for the sale and resulting new management.

The way the mountain was "run" last year was unacceptable. 

I wonder if we'll get the flags straightened out :grin:


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## Tin (Aug 26, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> I wonder if we'll get the flags straightened out :grin:


----------



## Magic (Aug 26, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> I think the problems mentioned were, in ,good part, the reason for the sale and resulting new management.
> 
> The way the mountain was "run" last year was unacceptable.
> 
> I wonder if we'll get the flags straightened out :grin:



Looking forward to the flag raising ceremony


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## drjeff (Aug 27, 2015)

I whole heartedly hope that the new owners succeed with Magic and what it sounds like are some plans for the next few years.  It is great to hear from some Magic regulars on AZ that they want some changes after what they saw from management the last few years.  I just hope that when some changes are made (and I highly doubt that one of those changes will be the "Black Line Express Quad"  ) that we don't start hearing people complaining that the new owners ruined the vibe of the place, when all along they probably just made some changes that Magic likely would of just needed to stay open!!  The same old Magic, but just with new owners, is a model that has shown to not work very well the last few years.  A "new" Magic that retains much of it's old charm, but with some things like dependable lifts, a new lift to allow the old Green Lift and the lower ability terrain pod over there to be a reality that helps expand it's customer base through more lower level skiers and riders is needed, and some more, and also more reliable snowmaking needs to happen to greatly increase the odds that we won't be wondering each summer if Magic will spin it's lifts for the following season.  Magic is in a location where you've already got a bunch of skiers and riders in the region at other mountains, with some needed tweaks, it isn't too far fetched from seeing them be able to attract some of those skiers/riders away for a day from the other mountains, and then more than likely they will become people who put Magic on their list of places to ski/ride a day or 2 a year, which would be great for Magic!


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## makimono (Aug 27, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Two dates should be up soon.  Sept & Oct weekends.  I can't wait!!



And just like magic!  

Magic Volunteer Day #1 - Saturday, September 26
http://www.magicmtn.com/event.php?day=26&month=09&year=2015

Magic Volunteer Day #2 - Saturday, October 17
http://www.magicmtn.com/event.php?day=17&month=10&year=2015


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## Do Work (Aug 27, 2015)

makimono said:


> And just like magic!
> 
> Magic Volunteer Day #1 - Saturday, September 26
> http://www.magicmtn.com/event.php?day=26&month=09&year=2015
> ...






Ugh, figures...  The most important thing I told them was to make sure to say NO CHAINSAWS ALLOWED ON VOLUNTEER DAYS.  Not only do they not mention that, they use a pic of a guy with a hot saw.  Lol.    


In response to the above posters insisting that major changes in the way Magic has fundamentally "operated" in the past few years...  Trust me when I say that's exactly why this all came about.  Lots of people were fed up with the mismanagement, lack of communication and constant half-assing that seemed to be the norm and not the exception.  I'll be the first to thank Tom for all his effort but he was in way over his head.  I'm really looking forward to having a solid ownership group, new management and a fresh chapter for Magic.

It's so close and it just needs the right team paying attention to the right things and making the right allocations and I think they really have that going on.  It's going to be a great year at Magic.


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 27, 2015)

Chainsaws are worthless.  Never used one on the hill.  Unless you're a tree guy, hired by the mountain, by all means.  Other than that, hand saws, pruners, loppers, & simply hands.  I seriously think I'm screwed for both those dates.  For sure #1.  

I'll be up on the mountain for several days before the season starts for sure though.  Can't wait.


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## Sorcerer (Aug 27, 2015)

makimono said:


> And just like magic!
> 
> Magic Volunteer Day #1 - Saturday, September 26
> http://www.magicmtn.com/event.php?day=26&month=09&year=2015
> ...



Nice to see some events finally getting on the calendar. Is this the new ownership to be doing it?


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## slatham (Aug 27, 2015)

Ha, the guy with the chain saw is my brother, and I'm the other guy. Deep in Asland I believe it's called from 2 years ago. What an awesome line......

Last year I bought a new hand saw from the hardware shop in Londonderry. 6-8" blade that folds back into the handle. THIS IS THE WAY TO GO. NO CHAIN SAWS. So much easier and productive ( not to mention safer!) especially when you consider we're never really cutting much beyond a 4" tree trunk. I even used it this summer for a quick solo mission into a creek bed runout that I thought from last winter was just not clear enough.

From the recent pick up in activity on the web site and facebook I'd say the new owners are getting involved already.

Hope I can make one of the days. Rusty, you gotta pull it off and get up there!


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## slatham (Aug 27, 2015)

Ha, the guy with the chain saw is my brother, and I'm the other guy. Deep in Asland I believe it's called from 2 years ago. What an awesome line......

Last year I bought a new hand saw from the hardware shop in Londonderry. 6-8" blade that folds back into the handle. THIS IS THE WAY TO GO. NO CHAIN SAWS. So much easier and productive ( not to mention safer!) especially when you consider we're never really cutting much beyond a 4" tree trunk. I even used it this summer for a quick solo mission into a creek bed runout that I thought from last winter was just not clear enough.

From the recent pick up in activity on the web site and facebook I'd say the new owners are getting involved already.

Hope I can make one of the days. Rusty, you gotta pull it off and get up there!


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## makimono (Aug 27, 2015)

slatham said:


> Ha, the guy with the chain saw is my brother, and I'm the other guy. Deep in Asland I believe it's called from 2 years ago. What an awesome line......



I think I might have been with you guys in there...was that the day we rode tractor up?

I agree with no chainsaws 

My weapons of choice are a folding razor tooth saw and a Woodsman's Pal, the brush hook on the Woodsman's Pal mows thru all that magic marker thick moose maple, you hardly have to bend down just reach hook and twist. And the little Corona chews thru stuff that wouldn't think it had any right chewing thru.


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## Do Work (Aug 27, 2015)

makimono said:


> I think I might have been with you guys in there...was that the day we rode tractor up?
> 
> I agree with no chainsaws
> 
> My weapons of choice are a folding razor tooth saw and a Woodsman's Pal, the brush hook on the Woodsman's Pal mows thru all that magic marker thick moose maple, you hardly have to bend down just reach hook and twist. And the little Corona chews thru stuff that wouldn't think it had any right chewing thru.





Those woodsman's pals are cool.  Love the instruction manual...  "how to split heads".  That's some GNAR points for real!

I roll with my Cold Steel two handed broadhead, ratcheting fiskers loppers and a Fanno hand saw.  Any chainsaw work would be done by arborists long before the masses show up.  Most of the hand work is literally just culling moose hobble aka striped maples.  Once that rat tree of an invasive species is pulled out it's good to go.


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## makimono (Aug 27, 2015)

might come in handy you never know...those VT hippies can get pretty violent I hear haha

I love the Two Hander machete, it's awesome for trimming those evergreens a couple feet higher up, would be eye pokers come winter.


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## Do Work (Aug 27, 2015)

Oh and we may be adding a 3rd work day on 10/10 aka Colombus day wknd just to make sure the trees are fkn perfect this season


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## gmcunni (Aug 27, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Oh and we may be adding a 3rd work day on 10/10 aka Colombus day wknd just to make sure the trees are fkn perfect this season



"we", are you employed at Magic?


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## Newpylong (Aug 28, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Chainsaws are worthless.  Never used one on the hill.  Unless you're a tree guy, hired by the mountain, by all means.  Other than that, hand saws, pruners, loppers, & simply hands.  I seriously think I'm screwed for both those dates.  For sure #1.
> 
> I'll be up on the mountain for several days before the season starts for sure though.  Can't wait.



Depends on what type of work there is to do. If you have big growth down you're going to be hacking away with your hand saw all day on one cut. There's a time and place for both.


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## slatham (Aug 28, 2015)

Well if this is any sign of the new management, they are responsive! They have already added a note to each of the calendar dates: NO CHAINSAWS! They even removed the picture of me and my bro.

Also added a 3rd day with "possible" pig roast?

And yes Makimono that was a day where the uphill transport was a rather treacherous tractor ride with frequent bailouts for water bars. 

Now if they fire up Red for the volunteer days THAT would really send a pre-season message!


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## slatham (Aug 28, 2015)

Newpylong, I think the way this should work is that any large, chainsaw required downed trees be reported back to (a now responsive?) management who will send a Magic crew up to deal with it later in the fall. Given resources constraints, I could imagine that crew may not be employees but a select, small group of "temporary" employees (ie guys with known chainsaw skills vs random volunteers). But that's just IMHO.


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 28, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Depends on what type of work there is to do. If you have big growth down you're going to be hacking away with your hand saw all day on one cut. There's a time and place for both.



Not for volunteers.  You need a better hand saw. I cannot begin to tell you how much has been accomplished with them & hard work tossing logs around.


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## Do Work (Aug 28, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> "we", are you employed at Magic?




No, I meant "we" in the editorial sense.  "We' as in the group of volunteers that does this every year.    




slatham said:


> Newpylong, I think the way this should work is that any large, chainsaw required downed trees be reported back to (a now responsive?) management who will send a Magic crew up to deal with it later in the fall. Given resources constraints, I could imagine that crew may not be employees but a select, small group of "temporary" employees (ie guys with known chainsaw skills vs random volunteers). But that's just IMHO.




Actually you've got it a little backwards but you're mostly right.  If it's a new cut that needs hot saw work as Voodoo was, (the run next to Redline) we generally go through it with a very small group of volunteer arborists and tree workers, cut up what needs to be removed into manageable pieces and is then left there for the bigger groups of volunteers to drag off into piles on an official work day.  It really helps maximize the productivity of the pro guys and that kind of hand work is best left to large groups.  

If there's anything else big that needs to be chainsawed (not very common actually) it's noted, flagged and dealt with later on as you described.  It just isn't safe to have chainsaws running on big group days, even if you did happen to be a qualified professional.  


As always though, the emphasis on these work days is on doing as little as possible to make it skiable.  You can always thin more down the line if it's too tight, but you can't put it back once it's gone and we really don't want to run into erosion issues.  The natural spacing on the mountain is almost always 100% perfect and I'd say 99% of the work we do is picking up deadfall, branches and removing the invasive and aggressive moose maples.  That's really it.  Rare are the downed trees of significant size, but we do have a system to deal with them.


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## slatham (Aug 28, 2015)

Yeah, I often get things backward! Thanks for the low down Do Work. I hope we have the chance to meet at one of the volunteer days.


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## Newpylong (Aug 28, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Not for volunteers.  You need a better hand saw. I cannot begin to tell you how much has been accomplished with them & hard work tossing logs around.



Next time you guys head up to cut up some 24" hardwood or pine by hand please PM me so I can bring a chair and popcorn.

Volunteer labor with chains is used many places, you just need to make sure you know them and they have the proper gear and how to use their saws.

For the small stuff no doubt, loppers and handsaws are the way to go!


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 28, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Next time you guys head up to cut up some 24" hardwood or pine by hand please PM me so I can bring a chair and popcorn.



I'll be sure let you know anytime I cut anything over 12".  Don't expect a to hear from me.


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 28, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Next time you guys head up to cut up some 24" hardwood or pine by hand please PM me so I can bring a chair and popcorn.



Furthermore. Same goes to you next time you climb, then proceed to walk all over a mountain in steep terrain with a 5 gallon gas can & chainsaw large enough to cut 24".  Are we logging?  Jesus, 24".


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## Mapnut (Aug 28, 2015)

Just wondering, how much control does the area have over who cuts what where? I'm sure they don't want things opened up too much.


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## makimono (Aug 28, 2015)

Mapnut said:


> Just wondering, how much control does the area have over who cuts what where? I'm sure they don't want things opened up too much.



At the Magic volunteer days groups are _usually_ sent to specific area and _usually_ have someone experienced with them like a Do Work or a Rusty Groomer.

And really very little standing timber is cut down, most of what's cut is the moose maple that grows like bamboo and the occasional widow maker. They're definitely not sending groups out to hack lines willy nilly. As unglamorous as it sounds most of what we do is dragging blow down out of the ski lines. But that pays big dividends in the winter.


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## Do Work (Aug 28, 2015)

makimono said:


> At the Magic volunteer days groups are _usually_ sent to specific area and _usually_ have someone experienced with them like a Do Work or a Rusty Groomer.
> 
> And really very little standing timber is cut down, most of what's cut is the moose maple that grows like bamboo and the occasional widow maker. They're definitely not sending groups out to hack lines willy nilly. As unglamorous as it sounds most of what we do is dragging blow down out of the ski lines. But that pays big dividends in the winter.





Exactly.  It's all about just cleaning up the deadfall, blowdown and *absolutely minimal* cutting after that.  Mostly invasive moose maple.  It's all about the natural spacing!!!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Aug 28, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Furthermore. Same goes to you next time you climb, then proceed to walk all over a mountain in steep terrain with a 5 gallon gas can & chainsaw large enough to cut 24".  Are we logging?  Jesus, 24".



I've never needed a 5 gallon can of saw gas in the woods with me while logging, that stays on the pickup. A 1.25 gallon can maybe....  :grin::grin:


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## MMP (Aug 28, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Not for volunteers.  You need a better hand saw. I cannot begin to tell you how much has been accomplished with them & hard work tossing logs around.



I hear you're the best and biggest tosser around. Winky


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 28, 2015)

I hope they take the Tenney approach and really open themselves up to telling faithful what is broken, what needs to be fixed, and why it is a priority. I tip my cap to the way Tenney has been transparent with their infrastructure. I don't understand why Magic can't do the same. I am going to make at least 1 or 2 trips to Tenney next year because of this.


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## Newpylong (Aug 28, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Furthermore. Same goes to you next time you climb, then proceed to walk all over a mountain in steep terrain with a 5 gallon gas can & chainsaw large enough to cut 24".  Are we logging?  Jesus, 24".



Logging? Any tree of any size can come down if weakened by a storm, ants, woodpeckers, etc.

Even a 16" Crapsman can cut 24" if it's sharp, it's a cut on each side. Why would you lug a 5 gallon jerry can with you? You bring all your gear with you up on a quad or ATV and leave it in a central location. You return to it to fuel and bar chain oil or bring a 1-2 gallon with you. Not rocket science.

Time and a place for different tools. :beer:


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## Do Work (Aug 29, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I hope they take the Tenney approach and really open themselves up to telling faithful what is broken, what needs to be fixed, and why it is a priority. I tip my cap to the way Tenney has been transparent with their infrastructure. I don't understand why Magic can't do the same. I am going to make at least 1 or 2 trips to Tenney next year because of this.



I don't think they really need a long winded confession so much as they need to lay out clear goals and a realistic timeline.  People know where they went wrong, but knowing where this ship is being steered is going to be important in building confidence and skier visits.


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## gmcunni (Aug 29, 2015)

i'm no marketing genius, or any kind of genius for that matter... so tell me who is magic's biggest competition? who are they going to "steal" skier visits from?

*note - i really like magic. if i lived 1 hour closer i'd be there a lot

in my mind S VT is full of biggish mountains with lots of amenities, attracting the rich (well to do)  and families  of southern new england and NY+NJ.  even if magic had full snow making, fully function red and black chairs and even an additional lift for beginners (green run?) would the S VT crowd flock there?

there is no town, there is limited lodging.  are they destined to be a day trip destination ? 

magic has, arguably, some unique terrain not available at other S VT mountains, is that enough to pump up skier visits?

are they after the central/northern crowd where similar terrain options abound?


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 29, 2015)

Don't stratton magic!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 29, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i'm no marketing genius, or any kind of genius for that matter... so tell me who is magic's biggest competition? who are they going to "steal" skier visits from?
> 
> *note - i really like magic. if i lived 1 hour closer i'd be there a lot
> 
> ...



Good points 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ScottySkis (Aug 29, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i'm no marketing genius, or any kind of genius for that matter... so tell me who is magic's biggest competition? who are they going to "steal" skier visits from?
> 
> *note - i really like magic. if i lived 1 hour closer i'd be there a lot
> 
> ...



+1. That really why when I not rich or well off am in Vermont I much rather be at big place like mt snow or k or  then experience what I have in Roxbury NY.


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 29, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i'm no marketing genius, or any kind of genius for that matter... so tell me who is magic's biggest competition? who are they going to "steal" skier visits from?
> 
> *note - i really like magic. if i lived 1 hour closer i'd be there a lot
> 
> ...



I think they could attract skiers that would normally go further north to MRG, Sugarbush, and Killington. I don't think they are going to take many folks from Stratton or Okemo.


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## Jully (Aug 29, 2015)

Maybe they're eventually trying to take some families from Bromely? Obviously not the majority of Bromley families though.


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## mriceyman (Aug 29, 2015)

Hope the new owners have a good winter to help with success.. You can talk about the bar, flags, shops etc but all i need to return is reliable lifts. 2 would be great. Thats would do it for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Aug 29, 2015)

Magic has been break even the past two winters with circa 20k skier visits. To put this in perspective, Mt Snow, Stratton, Bromley and Okemo have a combined 1.6 million skier visits. One argument says that with both chairs in reliable states, and a circa 50% increase in snowmaking, they could grab an additional 16k skiers - a mere 1% of the regions skier visits. While break even would go up, it would not be 36k so they are in the black. Say what you will about the skiers at sorrounding mountains - but I would argue that there are a lot - more than 10% - who would welcome a cheaper, steeper, deeper  and emptier option to the mega resorts. So all they need to do is get 10% of that 10% and they are in good shape with cash flow to get even better. A good winter would help, but Magic is SO close to being a viable, if niche, ski area. Let's hope this new group can pull it off.


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## Do Work (Aug 29, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i'm no marketing genius, or any kind of genius for that matter... so tell me who is magic's biggest competition? who are they going to "steal" skier visits from?
> 
> *note - i really like magic. if i lived 1 hour closer i'd be there a lot
> 
> ...




This is generally referred to as the attitude of those who "don't get it".  And don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying...  But come ski here when the snow is good and there is no going back.  The terrain, the trees, the snow, the people, the vibe...  I wouldn't go to Strappon of you paid me.  I don't like it there at all .  Believe it or not a lot of people are dissatisfied by the blah, crowded and steamrolled experience they're getting for their insane expenditure elsewhere.  I hate standing in line and I hate skiing in a crowd even more.  Magic is for real skiers who hate the bullshit that comes with major resorts and don't give a damn about shopping at boutiques or overpriced food and fake scenesters.  They just want to ski the best terrain in SoVT and be in a community of like-minded individuals.  

By all means if you like those "other mountains" then totally go there.  I won't be mad at you.  I don't prefer them though, and that's putting it as nicely as I can.  For those who appreciate a simplistic, raw advanced skiing experience there is no alternative in Southern Vermont.  

The points you raise are valid, but they vaporize once you ski here and see what it's really all about.  I respect your want to ask, but trust me when I say Magic is a different planet than the other area offerings.


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## Do Work (Aug 29, 2015)

slatham said:


> Magic has been break even the past two winters with circa 20k skier visits. To put this in perspective, Mt Snow, Stratton, Bromley and Okemo have a combined 1.6 million skier visits. One argument says that with both chairs in reliable states, and a circa 50% increase in snowmaking, they could grab an additional 16k skiers - a mere 1% of the regions skier visits. While break even would go up, it would not be 36k so they are in the black. Say what you will about the skiers at sorrounding mountains - but I would argue that there are a lot - more than 10% - who would welcome a cheaper, steeper, deeper  and emptier option to the mega resorts. So all they need to do is get 10% of that 10% and they are in good shape with cash flow to get even better. A good winter would help, but Magic is SO close to being a viable, if niche, ski area. Let's hope this new group can pull it off.




Very much so.  I can't even tell you how many have come here in recent years and said "I can't believe I was wasting my money at Mountain X, Y & Z."

For those that are not stoked on the mega resort vibe, Magic is a no-brainer.


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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2015)

For me it comes down to 2 working lifts. I love the terrain and the vibe. I am really not a big fan of the BLT as it usually has slow service.


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## Newpylong (Aug 29, 2015)

Tough to make any money to put back into the place on only 20k skier visits..


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## MMP (Aug 29, 2015)

Do Work said:


> This is generally referred to as the attitude of those who "don't get it".  And don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying...  But come ski here when the snow is good and there is no going back.  The terrain, the trees, the snow, the people, the vibe...  I wouldn't go to Strappon of you paid me.  I don't like it there at all .  Believe it or not a lot of people are dissatisfied by the blah, crowded and steamrolled experience they're getting for their insane expenditure elsewhere.  I hate standing in line and I hate skiing in a crowd even more.  Magic is for real skiers who hate the bullshit that comes with major resorts and don't give a damn about shopping at boutiques or overpriced food and fake scenesters.  They just want to ski the best terrain in SoVT and be in a community of like-minded individuals.
> 
> By all means if you like those "other mountains" then totally go there.  I won't be mad at you.  I don't prefer them though, and that's putting it as nicely as I can.  For those who appreciate a simplistic, raw advanced skiing experience there is no alternative in Southern Vermont.
> 
> The points you raise are valid, but they vaporize once you ski here and see what it's really all about.  I respect your want to ask, but trust me when I say Magic is a different planet than the other area offerings.



I come for the flags


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## steamboat1 (Aug 29, 2015)

It'll be hard to increase skier visits if they don't open by Thanksgiving, all their competition is usually. Typically they don't open until just before Christmas. Thanksgiving weekend & & the first few weekends before Christmas see quite a bit of business at other areas when weather cooperates. Same thing on the other end. Closing in the middle of March doesn't help increase skier visits either, especially when weather cooperates late season. Then there's the fact they're only open four days a week excluding holiday weeks except for the rare powder days. Even the rare powder days how much business can they expect when people don't know if they'll be open or not until the snow is on the ground? I like Magic, really I do, but they have a tough nut to crack. Base elevation & the fact they're slightly out of the snow belt is not there friend either. I wish them luck. It's got nothing to do with getting it or not.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 29, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It'll be hard to increase skier visits if they don't open by Thanksgiving, all their competition is usually. Typically they don't open until just before Christmas. Thanksgiving weekend & & the first few weekends before Christmas see quite a bit of business at other areas when weather cooperates. Same thing on the other end. Closing in the middle of March doesn't help increase skier visits either, especially when weather cooperates late season. Then there's the fact they're only open four days a week excluding holiday weeks except for the rare powder days. Even the rare powder days how much business can they expect when people don't know if they'll be open or not until the snow is on the ground? I like Magic, really I do, but they have a tough nut to crack. Base elevation & the fact they're slightly out of the snow belt is not there friend either. I wish them luck. It's got nothing to do with getting it or not.



They were open until April 18th this year........


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## MMP (Aug 29, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It'll be hard to increase skier visits if they don't open by Thanksgiving, all their competition is usually. Typically they don't open until just before Christmas. Thanksgiving weekend & & the first few weekends before Christmas see quite a bit of business at other areas when weather cooperates. Same thing on the other end. Closing in the middle of March doesn't help increase skier visits either, especially when weather cooperates late season. Then there's the fact they're only open four days a week excluding holiday weeks except for the rare powder days. Even the rare powder days how much business can they expect when people don't know if they'll be open or not until the snow is on the ground? I like Magic, really I do, but they have a tough nut to crack. Base elevation & the fact they're slightly out of the snow belt is not there friend either. I wish them luck. It's got nothing to do with getting it or not.



You're wrong. 

Snow belt.  Good one.


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## marcski (Aug 29, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It'll be hard to increase skier visits if they don't open by Thanksgiving, all their competition is usually. Typically they don't open until just before Christmas. Thanksgiving weekend & & the first few weekends before Christmas see quite a bit of business at other areas when weather cooperates. Same thing on the other end. Closing in the middle of March doesn't help increase skier visits either, especially when weather cooperates late season. Then there's the fact they're only open four days a week excluding holiday weeks except for the rare powder days. Even the rare powder days how much business can they expect when people don't know if they'll be open or not until the snow is on the ground? I like Magic, really I do, but they have a tough nut to crack. Base elevation & the fact they're slightly out of the snow belt is not there friend either. I wish them luck. It's got nothing to do with getting it or not.



I don't agree. Look at Plattekill, which is probably the closest analogy there is for Magic. Same general feel and vibe. Great terrain and no crowds.  Both rely on natural snow, which for their faithful is part of the allure. (Personally, I'd much rather ski narrow, old school trails with soft snow and some rocks and brambles to ski around than some hard packed, crowded highway that gets skied off by noon). Platty is never open on Turkey day, is only open Fri-Sun (with occasional thursdays and vacation weeks). They are family owned and are in the black. It was not the product or biz model, it was most definitely the management.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 29, 2015)

marcski said:


> I don't agree. Look at Plattekill, which is probably the closest analogy there is for Magic. Same general feel and vibe. Great terrain and no crowds.  Both rely on natural snow, which for their faithful is part of the allure. (Personally, I'd much rather ski narrow, old school trails with soft snow and some rocks and brambles to ski around than some hard packed, crowded highway that gets skied off by noon). Platty is never open on Turkey day, is only open Fri-Sun (with occasional thursdays and vacation weeks). They are family owned and are in the black. It was not the product or biz model, it was most definitely the management.



Or Pico......

Pico is not as old school as Magic or Plattekill obviously, but the operation schedule and lack of snowmaking is pretty similar.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 29, 2015)

Plattekill has summer mountain biking which is quite popular from what I've heard. Might even be more popular than there winter activities. I'm sure that contributes to their bottom line. I guess most of you forget that Pico went Chapter 7 in 1997. If not for it's purchase by Killington for the sewer line for the Grand Hotel it very well might be still closed today. Who's to say whether Pico turns a profit or not today, POWDR doesn't release that information. Like I said I wish Magic luck.


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## marcski (Aug 29, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Plattekill has summer mountain biking which is quite popular from what I've heard. Might even be more popular than there winter activities. I'm sure that contributes to their bottom line. I guess most of you forget that Pico went Chapter 7 in 1997. If not for it's purchase by Killington for the sewer line for the Grand Hotel it very well might be still closed today. Who's to say whether Pico turns a profit or not today, POWDR doesn't release that information. Like I said I wish Magic luck.


Once again you're completely wrong. While mt. Biking is popular at Platty, revenues come nowhere close to ski revenues. This is based on my many conversations with mgt over the years. Platty makes money because it's well managed and they produce a great product day in and day out throghout the ski season. Like other's have said about Magic in this thread, once people try it, they are sold and come back.


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## BodhiMax (Aug 30, 2015)

marcski said:


> Once again you're completely wrong. While mt. Biking is popular at Platty, revenues come nowhere close to ski revenues. This is based on my many conversations with mgt over the years. Platty makes money because it's well managed and they produce a great product day in and day out throghout the ski season. Like other's have said about Magic in this thread, once people try it, they are sold and come back.



While good management certainly helps, the one thing Magic really needs is money.  If they improve the snowmaking and overall appearance, and make sure that both lifts that run regularly, they should be able to pull in a respectable share of the southern VT ski crowd.  I hope the new ownership has some significant financial backing, but the delay on this purchase and the lack of news about investment and plans is not particularly reassuring.


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## Sorcerer (Aug 30, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> While good management certainly helps, the one thing Magic really needs is money.  If they improve the snowmaking and overall appearance, and make sure that both lifts that run regularly, they should be able to pull in a respectable share of the southern VT ski crowd.  I hope the new ownership has some significant financial backing, but the delay on this purchase and the lack of news about investment and plans is not particularly reassuring.




That's very true.
 They also need to do a lot of marketing - it takes money to make money is still true. There are too many people, even locally, I hate to say Stratton but also in Manchester, who ask if Magic is open, do they make snow, do they groom and, I heard the lifts are always breaking down-it only takes one time when only one lift is running.

Some good PR would help to bring a good number of people, especially those with children who don't like people scaring their children by ski too close and too fast; and those who don't like paying a fortune for lifts, food and crowds as well as those seeking a challenge.


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## Do Work (Aug 30, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> While good management certainly helps, the one thing Magic really needs is money.  If they improve the snowmaking and overall appearance, and make sure that both lifts that run reglarly, they should be able to pull in a respectable share of the southern VT ski crowd.  I hope the new ownership has some significant financial backing, but the delay on this purchase and the lack of news about investment and plans is not particularly reassuring.





Trust me, the time it has taken to do the paperwork has nothing to do with the amount of money they have.  I'd point that finger at the old owner who just likes owning a mountain.  They don't even need a ton of money, they just need to be smart, communicative and well organized.

I guess I just don't see the point of wild speculation based in assumption.  You guys don't really know any of this you're just imagining up what you think the deal is.  

All I can really tell you is that Magic is *this* close to making money and IMO as long as they handle the very basics with tact and attention they will begin to attract a lot more people.


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## gmcunni (Aug 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> This is generally referred to as the attitude of those who "don't get it".  And don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying...  But come ski here when the snow is good and there is no going back.  The terrain, the trees, the snow, the people, the vibe...  I wouldn't go to Strappon of you paid me.  I don't like it there at all .  Believe it or not a lot of people are dissatisfied by the blah, crowded and steamrolled experience they're getting for their insane expenditure elsewhere.  I hate standing in line and I hate skiing in a crowd even more.  Magic is for real skiers who hate the bullshit that comes with major resorts and don't give a damn about shopping at boutiques or overpriced food and fake scenesters.  They just want to ski the best terrain in SoVT and be in a community of like-minded individuals.
> 
> By all means if you like those "other mountains" then totally go there.  I won't be mad at you.  I don't prefer them though, and that's putting it as nicely as I can.  For those who appreciate a simplistic, raw advanced skiing experience there is no alternative in Southern Vermont.
> 
> The points you raise are valid, but they vaporize once you ski here and see what it's really all about.  I respect your want to ask, but trust me when I say Magic is a different planet than the other area offerings.



Sounds like the Skiing version of "Field of Dreams"... Build it and they will come 






> For those who appreciate a simplistic, raw advanced skiing experience there is no alternative in Southern Vermont.


 this really cuts to what i was asking - How big is this market? Big enough for Magic to be successful?  I think there is a large percentage of skiers who don't need (want) the "raw advanced skiing experience" (as evident with the seemingly growing success of the Hermitage Club and yearly skier visit increases at Okemo)

 i'd be interested to see their 1-5-10 year plan, should the new owners share it with the public.   if Magic can double their skier visits, would that equate to success?  if they could double their visits, where would those people stay & eat?  are they commuting from their homes near other mountains?


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## steamboat1 (Aug 30, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> if Magic can double their skier visits, would that equate to success?  if they could double their visits, where would those people stay & eat?  are they commuting from their homes near other mountains?


I think a pretty large percentage of people who ski southern VT. are day trippers who don't require lodging. I even see a lot of day trippers an hour north at Killington. While Magic is limited with lodging options in town there is ample lodging options a short drive away in Manchester. Bromley has even less options with only one small on mountain hotel & zero on mountain condo development which Magic has. Yes Bromley is closer to Manchester but not by a lot. I don't think lodging & food options are a limiting factor for Magic.


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## slatham (Aug 30, 2015)

Steamboat, FYI Bromley has a significant condo development in Bromley Village just to lookers left of the Mountian. 18 home owners associations, and ours has 34 units. And there is a significant contingent who make Magic their second Mountian and would visit more if there were more reliable lifts and a few more trails open during non-natural snow times.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 30, 2015)

marcski said:


> Once again you're completely wrong. While mt. Biking is popular at Platty, revenues come nowhere close to ski revenues. This is based on my many conversations with mgt over the years.


Summer revenues might not be close to winter revenues (I don't know) but regardless it is still revenue. Look at the money Killington spent this year in an attempt to increase summer revenue. I'm sure their expectations for summer revenue doesn't come anywhere near their expectations for winter revenue but it is still significant enough to warrant a hefty investment in their managements opinion.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 30, 2015)

slatham said:


> Steamboat, FYI Bromley has a significant condo development in Bromley Village just to lookers left of the Mountian. 18 home owners associations, and ours has 34 units. And there is a significant contingent who make Magic their second Mountian and would visit more if there were more reliable lifts and a few more trails open during non-natural snow times.


I didn't realize that. I rarely go up the lifts on that side & didn't know it was there. I only knew about what was visible from the base.


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## Do Work (Aug 30, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> They were open until April 18th this year........




Don't worry, 'Ol Steamy isn't one to let facts or reality get in the way of what conclusions he's decided to arrive at haha


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## thetrailboss (Aug 30, 2015)

Why does Magic, in particular, evoke such strong emotions from folks? 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 30, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Why does Magic, in particular, evoke such strong emotions from folks?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Probably because it's rare like MRG.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Don't worry, 'Ol Steamy isn't one to let facts or reality get in the way of what conclusions he's decided to arrive at haha


Was I wrong saying Magic usually doesn't open until Christmas while it's nearby competition is usually open before Thanksgiving? That's a lot of business they are giving up. Last year was an exceptional year for all VT. ski areas because of the prolonged cold. A majority of areas stayed open well into April. This is not the norm though. Besides quite a few ski areas close mid April whether there is still snow or not. Pico & Mt Ellen usually wrap it up at the end of March (they did stay open one additional weekend last year). Stratton, Okemo, Stowe close mid April regardless, sometimes with 100% coverage still. This is because of lack of business. Magic loses more business by not opening early than they gain by staying open late. This is fact. I've skied both Okemo & Killington in November & there were sizable crowds everytime.


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## gmcunni (Aug 30, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> I think a pretty large percentage of people who ski southern VT. are *day trippers who don't require lodging.*



that's me.  not sure how large a percentage it is but it is a piece of the market. Using traffic on 91 as a data point.. Friday nights - crazy headed north.  Sunday nights - crazy headed south = Weekend traffic for people who have a place to stay (own,rent, hotel, etc)

traffic Saturday AM northbound, Saturday PM southbound, Sunday AM North - there is no traffic, as i can a test first hand. 

Certainly not the only point to consider but an easy one.

I am happy to day trip to SVT 1 day on a weekend, not doing it 2x (up and back + up and back) so i'll need a place to stay that is affordable and has stuff to do (i'm very fortunate to have a friend with a house near MT Snow who's always welcoming of a visitor).  

i'm a little south, in S CT so perhaps if it was 2 hours each way vs 3 i'd feel differently.


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## skithetrees (Aug 30, 2015)

honest question - do ski areas make money or does real estate make money? I was always under the impression that most mountains just about break even on ski operations and make their real money on real estate. With no real estate of its own, that would be tough for magic. Magics lodging options are pretty bad. Trail side has a handful of units, some stuff in magic circle and then the inn at magic or whatever it is called now. We have owned at Magic for over 30 years and that is just the truth. Manchester is just so far away, most people who can pay to stay there would probably rather ski bromley or Stratton anyway, they have to drive by at least one of them anyway. I certainly don't want to Stratton magic, but would something like Jackson hole be a realistic option?  Four seasons obviously won't be stepping up to the plate soon, but something nicer than the current options would be nice. At one time there was a half baked plan to build a hotel where the maintenance building is.  Obviously, none of that will happen at a struggling mountain. But long term, if magic is to succeed, I think it will need to. At least get dostals open again and make some nice rooms there.


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## skithetrees (Aug 30, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Was I wrong saying Magic usually doesn't open until Christmas while it's nearby competition is usually open before Thanksgiving? That's a lot of business they are giving up. Last year was an exceptional year for all VT. ski areas because of the prolonged cold. A majority of areas stayed open well into April. This is not the norm though. Besides quite a few ski areas close mid April whether there is still snow or not. Pico & Mt Ellen usually wrap it up at the end of March (they did stay open one additional weekend last year). Stratton, Okemo, Stowe close mid April regardless, sometimes with 100% coverage still. This is because of lack of business. Magic loses more business by not opening early than they gain by staying open late. This is fact. I've skied both Okemo & Killington in November & there were sizable crowds everytime.



I think they should shoot to open second week of December. I seriously doubt anyone makes money before that. Plus, they just don't have the money to make the snow. I think they would be better served trying to have a bunch of trails open for Christmas than maintaining one or two from thanksgiving to the holidays.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 30, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> I think they should shoot to open second week of December. I seriously doubt anyone makes money before that. Plus, they just don't have the money to make the snow. I think they would be better served trying to have a bunch of trails open for Christmas than maintaining one or two from thanksgiving to the holidays.


How many trails do they have open for the Christmas holiday? Not many if I recall correctly.


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## slatham (Aug 30, 2015)

Opening earlier in December isn't about the money made over those weekends. It's about 1) advertising that you are open (which for Magic is big) and 2) most importantly, getting an early start to putting snow down so the Christmas break has more than 1 trail! That is the key - having several options, ideally one for each ability, over Crhistmas regardless of the amount of natural snow. Doing this would also set up MLK weekend. Both of the last two seasons, which saw "record" skier visits (for recent times anyway), did so with VERY limited Christmas and MLK coverage. This alone could make the difference.


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## gmcunni (Aug 30, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Why does Magic, in particular, evoke such strong emotions from folks?



it is cult like!! anything not overtly positive about the mountain is deemed as a negative attack by some.

"i had a bad day skiing @ Magic" - you don't know where to ski. trees are were the goods are, obviously you are doing it wrong

"my food was bad and the service was slow" - why would you stop for food during a ski day? hard core skiers have a hearty breakfast, ski from first to last chair and then get drunk at the bar.  perhaps okemo is your type of mountain

"sucked getting suck on the lift for 2 hours today" - the bar was hopping, we had a great time. you missed out, too bad. 

"with only 1 chair and great conditions the line was 45 minutes long today" - you aren't skiing hard enough, you need that 45 minutes to recover. hit the bar during peak times rather than wait around, don't be a noob.




edit - immediately following the "you don't know what you are doing" you will then be invited to join them for personal guided tour to ensure your next visit is better.


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## jrmagic (Aug 30, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> it is cult like!! anything not overtly positive about the mountain is deemed as a negative attack by some.
> 
> "i had a bad day skiing @ Magic" - you don't know where to ski. trees are were the goods are, obviously you are doing it wrong
> 
> ...



I suppose this is true for some. I try to be realistic about my "homerism" and not be over the top with my exuberance when speaking to those not as familiar but for many of us, that is exsctly how we look at it. Would we like things better and more reliable? Absolutely.  However, even with the negative events captured in your post, I still love the place and choose to ski there every week because of the terrain, the vibe and the people. It's the overall experience that many of us find so special.


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## JoeB-Z (Aug 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> This is generally referred to as the attitude of those who "don't get it".  And don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying...  But come ski here when the snow is good and there is no going back.  The terrain, the trees, the snow, the people, the vibe...  I wouldn't go to Strappon of you paid me.  I don't like it there at all .  Believe it or not a lot of people are dissatisfied by the blah, crowded and steamrolled experience they're getting for their insane expenditure elsewhere.  I hate standing in line and I hate skiing in a crowd even more.  Magic is for real skiers who hate the bullshit that comes with major resorts and don't give a damn about shopping at boutiques or overpriced food and fake scenesters.  They just want to ski the best terrain in SoVT and be in a community of like-minded individuals.
> 
> By all means if you like those "other mountains" then totally go there.  I won't be mad at you.  I don't prefer them though, and that's putting it as nicely as I can.  For those who appreciate a simplistic, raw advanced skiing experience there is no alternative in Southern Vermont.
> 
> The points you raise are valid, but they vaporize once you ski here and see what it's really all about.  I respect your want to ask, but trust me when I say Magic is a different planet than the other area offerings.



Lets even get past good snow. I would rather pick through rocks on Magic than ski wonderful fake snow on blah slopes with crowds elsewhere. And in recent times the artificial snow on Talisman has been a godsend. And they can do it on Sorcerer too if they have the money. Two lifts, a bit more snow making and all is well. By the way, I will ski early season at Okemo and it is great for conditioning and I bought a Beast pass for the spring at Killington. It all makes for a great season.


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## skithetrees (Aug 30, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> Lets even get past good snow. I would rather pick through rocks on Magic than ski wonderful fake snow on blah slopes with crowds elsewhere. And in recent times the artificial snow on Talisman has been a godsend. And they can do it on Sorcerer too if they have the money. Two lifts, a bit more snow making and all is well. By the way, I will ski early season at Okemo and it is great for conditioning and I bought a Beast pass for the spring at Killington. It all makes for a great season.



Your last point is a good one. I think pretty much the only people that ski early season at magic are pass holders. For most of the people, ski info just one trail isn't worth it. All the more reason to wait until mid-December and lure in ticket purchases.


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 30, 2015)

Most of the magic folks I have met will be the first to admit when things aren't working or poor decisions were made but they are so invested into the mountain and culture that they look past it. Most people can't understand that type of loyalty and can't relate. I love Magic but I don't have that same dedication....yet. But I can appreciate folks that do.


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## Harvey (Aug 30, 2015)

marcski said:


> Once again you're completely wrong. While mt. Biking is popular at Platty, revenues come nowhere close to ski revenues. This is based on my many conversations with mgt over the years. Platty makes money because it's well managed and they produce a great product day in and day out throughout the ski season.



Yes.

Biking at Plattekill is just about revenue neutral.  One of it's appeals for management is that biking helps the mountain hold on to good people by employing them for more of the year.

MTB also gives Plattekill are real branding boost. It's a renowned destination and having Aaron Gwin show up and rock it, keeps your name top of mind.


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## Do Work (Aug 30, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> Lets even get past good snow. I would rather pick through rocks on Magic than ski wonderful fake snow on blah slopes with crowds elsewhere. And in recent times the artificial snow on Talisman has been a godsend. And they can do it on Sorcerer too if they have the money. Two lifts, a bit more snow making and all is well. By the way, I will ski early season at Okemo and it is great for conditioning and I bought a Beast pass for the spring at Killington. It all makes for a great season.





Well I couldn't agree more but that's hardly a selling point to many and lots of people would think you're crazy for suggesting Upper Magician when the rocks are still out.  I love that kind of adventure skiing.  I am right there with you though- fix the black, nail down a solid snowmaking schedule and then just hammer down on the communication and marketing.  

Patrol is in for a nice shakeup, ski school is about to get a major breath of fresh air and as you noted it may not be economically feasible to out-killington K-mart for the early season but once it's filled in it's a no-brainer.  People want to ski Magic, but in years last it has simply been mismanaged to the point of inconvenience.  


Also yes it can get frustrating when people are just so pleased with themselves for lauding the impossibility of Magic's success.  To answer the above question, Magic skiers are passionate because it's more family than anything.  Most have been around long enough to have been through some real trying times.  Having been theology them though, it's extremely encouraging to see how far the place has come.  It makes me wonder if the naysayers know how far it's actually come since the Eichholtz's reign just a few years ago...  To say that miracles have happened is an understatement.  The mountain finally has solid footing- they have 0 debt, new investors, the snowmaking system actually works on the vast majority of trails, there are more trees to ski every year and grooming is literally every bit as good as other area mountains.  Certainly there is a lot of room for improvement but for people to expect it to be Bromley tomorrow just REEKS of internetfluenza.  Of course they need things to happen but the fact of the matter remains thus- Magic has momentum, a dedicated base of skiers and a killer- if flawed- reputation that is being rapidly improved.  


Basically I don't need them to build Rome in a day, I just need them to keep making incremental improvements every season, and keep giving skiers more and more reasons to come back.  I'm sure many will disagree with me but hey...  That's what the internet is for.


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## JoeB-Z (Aug 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Well I couldn't agree more but that's hardly a selling point to many and lots of people would think you're crazy for suggesting Upper Magician when the rocks are still out.  I love that kind of adventure skiing.  I am right there with you though- fix the black, nail down a solid snowmaking schedule and then just hammer down on the communication and marketing.
> 
> Patrol is in for a nice shakeup, ski school is about to get a major breath of fresh air and as you noted it may not be economically feasible to out-killington K-mart for the early season but once it's filled in it's a no-brainer.  People want to ski Magic, but in years last it has simply been mismanaged to the point of inconvenience.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the complement but I ski Upper Magician twice a year and about the same for Red Line! I am talking about Black Line and rocks! Agree with all points 100%. I do ski Gondolf all the time, ropes or not and the rocks at the bottom are a price of admission. Magic is heaven on earth when it works. It just needs to work more often.


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## cdskier (Aug 30, 2015)

If I skied S VT, Magic sounds like exactly the type of place that I would love. A co-worker of mine did a 3 day weekend in S VT last winter and skied Stratton, Mt Snow, and Magic. She talked a lot about how much she really enjoyed skiing at Magic. I think she talked more about Magic than the other 2 combined (and she is hardly the "hardcore" skier type). So I think that does go to show a bit that once people ski there they tend to enjoy it.


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## gmcunni (Aug 31, 2015)

cdskier said:


> If I skied S VT, Magic sounds like exactly the type of place that I would love. A co-worker of mine did a 3 day weekend in S VT last winter and skied Stratton, Mt Snow, and Magic. She talked a lot about how much she really enjoyed skiing at Magic. I think she talked more about Magic than the other 2 combined (and she is hardly the "hardcore" skier type). So I think that does go to show a bit that once people ski there they tend to enjoy it.




where do you ski and what would it take for you to give S VT a try? magic wants your business. sounds like the word of mouth from your co-worker, while positive and interesting, isn't enough to get you to try it.


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## cdskier (Aug 31, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> where do you ski and what would it take for you to give S VT a try? magic wants your business. sounds like the word of mouth from your co-worker, while positive and interesting, isn't enough to get you to try it.



I ski Sugarbush. I have a condo there and a season pass there. So for me personally in my situation, there's not much Magic can do to get me as a regular customer.


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> I've never needed a 5 gallon can of saw gas in the woods with me while logging, that stays on the pickup. A 1.25 gallon can maybe....  :grin::grin:



Ok, 5 gallon exaggeration.  The point is us volunteers can do everything we need with simple hand tools & do it easier & SAFER.  Show up & you guys will see how it works.

Good gloves & strong hands even go along way. For me, I really just worry about what is lurking underneath.


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## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

cdskier said:


> If I skied S VT, Magic sounds like exactly the type of place that I would love. A co-worker of mine did a 3 day weekend in S VT last winter and skied Stratton, Mt Snow, and Magic. She talked a lot about how much she really enjoyed skiing at Magic. I think she talked more about Magic than the other 2 combined (and she is hardly the "hardcore" skier type). So I think that does go to show a bit that once people ski there they tend to enjoy it.





We get a ton of that too.  See, one of the biggest and most underrated advantages to skiing at Magic is the limited uphill capacity.  If there's any kind of crowd it's at the bottom and not the top.  That means you are almost guaranteed to not be skiing down in a crowd, and that is a huge plus to people who are still working on building their confidence level.  It seems as though half the battle these days is not being hit from behind by someone who is out of control, or waiting for a break in the traffic to even start skiing.  Even if people are technically skiing above their comfort level, they can work through it at their own pace and without feeling like they're about to get smoked and that is severely underrated these days.  It takes a whole extra dimension of fear right out of the equation.  Every time I go to those other places I'm just blown away at how many people are on every trail at any given moment .  I really hate that.  It's hard to find places where you can go to get away and actually BE away.  At Magic you really get a sense that you are in Vermont.  Strat has earned the nickname "The Upper Upper West Side" for a reason- it's all the people that left the city...  To sit in traffic with both on the highways AND in the liftline again on the hill.  To me that really isn't getting away at all but some people are really into that sort of thing I guess.


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## VTKilarney (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm shocked at the 20k skier visit number.  For as geographically challenged as Burke is, it was always rumored that they drew 70k or so per year.  

I hate to say it, but Magic would be perfect for a private ski club.  It's located close to major metropolitan areas and it would have MUCH more compelling terrain than the other options out there.  And it just may be the most viable option.


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## VTKilarney (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Strat has earned the nickname "The Upper Upper West Side" for a reason- it's all the people that left the city...  To sit in traffic with both on the highways AND in the liftline again on the hill.  To me that really isn't getting away at all but some people are really into that sort of thing I guess.


I know exactly what you mean.  I've always said that I didn't escape to the country to be surrounded by the city - which is why I avoid ski areas that give me that feeling.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I'm shocked at the 20k skier visit number.  For as geographically challenged as Burke is, it was always rumored that they drew 70k or so per year.
> 
> I hate to say it, but Magic would be perfect for a private ski club.  It's located close to major metropolitan areas and it would have MUCH more compelling terrain than the other options out there.  And it just may be the most viable option.




Not to mention they've broken even at that level- and even made a modest profit in years past.  All without a really well organized ski school and a dismal rental situation.  Even just incremental improvements could net them a good profit as long as they keep their operating costs low.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Not to mention they've broken even at that level- and even made a modest profit in years past.


That is VERY impressive.  My concern, however, is that they have broken even because of a ton of deferred maintenance.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> That is VERY impressive.  My concern, however, is that they have broken even because of a ton of deferred maintenance.




Not really.  I mean, yes to a certain degree of course and I would have loved to see them fix the black chair last year but in all honesty that was more of a function of the mountain manager over-micro managing every little project rather than just letting a pro handle it and moving on to the next thing.     

They've had a plan to steadily improve snowmaking and believe me when I say they've stuck to that really well.  I know they're planning to make snow for a base on Sorcerer for the first time since reopening this year and that's really cool IMO.  Also tracking down and fixing small leaks and inefficient points on the hill is of far greater importance than one would imagine, and they've been all over that too.  Also, the Red Chair saw a full rebuild two years ago which was a large expense as well. 


As I said before- incremental improvements are adding up.  Also with the new management and ownership, a lot of big doors are being kicked open which makes me very happy.  I'd say we stand to see the largest single year advance in Magic's history since reopening.  Exciting times!


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2015)

re: snowmaking

I've always heard that one of Magic's major challenges here is lack of access to substantial water.  True?


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> re: snowmaking
> 
> I've always heard that one of Magic's major challenges here is lack of access to substantial water.  True?





As with most things Magic, yes and no.  I'd say inefficiencies and a lack of compressors/pump capacity are higher up on the list.  They've never emptied their pond as far as I know.  So yes in that it's not a huge pond but no because that's not exactly stopping them from doing anything.  

If they could get more of what they're paying for to actually get on the hillside that would be great and thankfully that's a priority.  Diesel is expensive.  The capacity to blow more at once though would be nice.  As it stands now it takes time to get the coverage needed to open but there's also a plan for that which makes me happy.


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I'm shocked at the 20k skier visit number.  For as geographically challenged as Burke is, it was always rumored that they drew 70k or so per year.
> 
> I hate to say it, but Magic would be perfect for a private ski club.  It's located close to major metropolitan areas and it would have MUCH more compelling terrain than the other options out there.  And it just may be the most viable option.



Considering even a place like Whaleback gets that many skier visits than that I don't know how they can keep the lights on, let alone make snow and put capital into anything.

I think I mentioned it before but when I talked to a lift inspector last year he said he wasn't sure how Black could even be given a license anymore. Let's hope they can do the work to get it.

What does Magic have for pumps and compressors? Oddly out of all my visits I never remember seeing the plant, is it that cluster of buildings directly behind Black? If diesel stays as or near current prices they may make out better this year. Assuming they have diesel compressors of course...


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Considering even a place like Whaleback gets more skier visits than that I don't know how they can keep the lights on, let alone make snow and put capital into anything.
> 
> I think I mentioned it before but when I talked to a NH lift inspector last year he said he wasn't sure how Black could even be given a license anymore.




And this is exactly the type of speculation that makes my fucking blood boil.  Don't read the thread and definitely hop in with out of state left field speculation, brah.  This post is par for the internet, lemme tell ya.  


I fkn give up.  Let me know when you guys decide the fate of the hill.  Lol.  Fucking internet experts...  I seriously give up.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> And this is exactly the type of speculation that makes my fucking blood boil.  Don't read the thread and definitely hop in with out of state left field speculation, brah.  This post is par for the internet, lemme tell ya.
> 
> 
> I fkn give up.  Let me know when you guys decide the fate of the hill.  Lol.  Fucking internet experts...  I seriously give up.


Yikes!  I thought that it was a valid observation.  It boggles my mind as well that a place with only 20,000 skier visits could break even.  It's possible that it does, but I think you need to be a little understanding.  The facts would make any reasonable person scratch their head.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> And this is exactly the type of speculation that makes my fucking blood boil.  Don't read the thread and definitely hop in with out of state left field speculation, brah.  This post is par for the internet, lemme tell ya.
> 
> 
> I fkn give up.  Let me know when you guys decide the fate of the hill.  Lol.  Fucking internet experts...  I seriously give up.



is it true they don't have a bucket truck? I heard the previous ownership stole the bucket truck, rendering flagpole repairs impossible. care to comment on that???


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Yikes!  I thought that it was a valid observation.  It boggles my mind as well that a place with only 20,000 skier visits could break even.  It's possible that it does, but I think you need to be a little understanding.  The facts would make any reasonable person scratch their head.





Obviously nobody wants to hear how, they just want to talk about what they think they know.  Internetfluenza at it's finest.  


What if I said "I talked to my buddy who's a urologist in New Mexico and he said he has no idea how your dick will ever work again.  He hasn't looked at your file but he heard from someone else it's probably fucked."


It's just annoying what people think they know nowadays and I'm getting pretty sick of everyone being so happy to write off the place.  I'm done trying anyways.  Believe it or don't believe it, I don't give a shit.  Lol.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

this aggression will not stand, man


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 31, 2015)

MMP said:


> this aggression will not stand, man


Time to raise a white flag?  ;-)


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> And this is exactly the type of speculation that makes my fucking blood boil.  Don't read the thread and definitely hop in with out of state left field speculation, brah.  This post is par for the internet, lemme tell ya.
> 
> 
> I fkn give up.  Let me know when you guys decide the fate of the hill.  Lol.  Fucking internet experts...  I seriously give up.



I am going to ignore your rudeness and ask what exactly are you doubting here?

If they were swimming in cash there would be a Green lift and both Red and Black would have ran consistently in the past few years.

If they were swimming in cash every trail that has snowmaking capacity would have been used.

I certainly didn't make up the part about the lift inspector. Granted he is a NH and Maine inspector, word about specific lifts gets around. There aren't many inspectors anymore.

So why don't you pop a valium and take a some deep breaths. No one here wants Magic to fail. I surely want it to thrive, been going there since I was about 8. But many on this site have either been around the industry or in the industry for decades, but reality is reality.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> I am going to ignore your rudeness and ask what exactly are you doubting here?
> 
> If they were swimming in cash there would be a Green lift and both Red and Black would have ran consistently in the past few years.
> 
> ...





Lol...  Whatever you say maaaaaaaaan!  With that kind of support who needs detractors *winky*


----------



## sull1102 (Aug 31, 2015)

You gotta relax Do Work. What's there point of this forum if people can't speculate? I've enjoyed reading your seemingly inside information posts, but you gotta let everyone talk.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

sull1102 said:


> You gotta relax Do Work. What's there point of this forum if people can't speculate? I've enjoyed reading your seemingly inside information posts, but you gotta let everyone talk.




No I don't...  On either count.  Simple math skills seem like an obvious requirement to speculation, no??  I mean hell, if your overhead and payroll are super low you don't need a lot to break even.  But what am I saying- we've got assumptions, conjecture and asinine questions to entertain!  And flags!!


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2015)

Jesus dude.  Take it easy.  Of all people, Newlypong is a member of this community who is passionate about the underdogs and I think most would consider Magic an underdog.  

So he had a conversation with a lift inspector and shared the information.  Don't shoot the messenger.  He's right that there's a small employment pool in that profession, so word gets around.  I've ridden the chair with a few over my years skiing and I'll ask about places I'm curious about.  

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the 20K figure based upon what I know of other businesses and having looked at a few P&L statements from working in the business in the past.  That said, I'll take your word for it.  You're very well connected. 

So, instead of getting hyper defensive and going on attack for what really was a relatively innocuous statement, why not just say, "the information you received doesn't mesh with what I hear locally."   Not difficult


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

Like I said-  whatever you guys say.  

Come to Magic and I'll show you guys around, otherwise I've had enough of trying to convince people the place isn't going to implode every page.  It's getting pretty annoying tbh, as even the basic points don't seem to be sinking in at all.  New management, ownership...  It all means nothing when people have se random axe to grind.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2015)

Hope to make it there this season.  I don't doubt you that they're moving in the right direction.  Looking forward to the formal announcement of the new ownership and their plans.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

I've said it before, let me know DeadHead.  I ski with these assholes though. 

 not applicable for MMP


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2015)

hey no worries, I'll be there.  It's been way too long since I've been back.  If there's one place I definitely plan on skiing this year outside of my pass (Wildcat,Attitash,Crotched) it's Magic.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

Just wanted to make sure you know MMP is a tremendous asshole.  No winky.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> word about specific lifts gets around.  So why don't you pop a valium




well if it's "word" we're talking about. You have no idea what you're talking about. Shut up. Ski with RG. You guys can dress up as Neal and Bob on costume day.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I've said it before, let me know DeadHead.  I ski with these assholes though.
> 
> not applicable for MMP



i try not to ski with people that cant negotiate skiing through the beginner area without smashing into innocent older, skiers.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Just wanted to make sure you know MMP is a tremendous asshole.  No winky.





MMP said:


> i try not to ski with people that cant negotiate skiing through the beginner area without smashing into innocent older, skiers.



Thank you for making my point & things clear.  

I'm trying to take a lesson from a beautiful (think Susie Chapstick) instructor & MR. BIG DOUBLE DIAMOND comes & sideswipes me.


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2015)

MMP said:


> well if it's "word" we're talking about. You have no idea what you're talking about. Shut up. Ski with RG. You guys can dress up as Neal and Bob on costume day.



Jeez what's in the water down there? For folks who portray themselves to be good stewards of the mountain you people are downright nasty. I've seen middle schoolers with  more maturity.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

It's summer. We get nice when it snows.  Imagine a bunch of people publicly speculating about your business, kid, wife, and not knowing what they're talking about. 

Rusty is a tool ,  but if you have a problem with DW, likely you're an asshole. You should hate me.  I'm a dick.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

Maturity. Haha. I am no more or less mature than I was in middle school. Same guy.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Thank you for making my point & things clear.
> 
> I'm trying to take a lesson from a beautiful (think Susie Chapstick) instructor & MR. BIG DOUBLE DIAMOND comes & sideswipes me.



Nice stem christi, loser


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

& there you have it....


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I don't know how to ski....




it's fine.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Jeez what's in the water down there? For folks who portray themselves to be good stewards of the mountain you people are downright nasty. I've seen middle schoolers with  more maturity.




Dude you're spreading "word" aka rumors in a thread that we're trying to use to answer questions and build confidence in.  Call us middle schoolers all you want but you're showing yourself to be no better than the average high school girl when you do such things and then cry about peoples' reactions.  I'd even address your rumor's ridiculousness in specific terms but it's now far more fun to make jokes at your expense.  


Seriously man, why don't you poke the bear a little harder and play the victim a little more.  Lol.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

MMP said:


> I'm the best.



Glad you think so.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I plan to thank Billski for that awesome Swiss Flag, I hate the US Flag. and veterans. and puppies




suit yourself


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Dude you're spreading "word" aka rumors in a thread that we're trying to use to answer questions and build confidence in.  Call us middle schoolers all you want but you're showing yourself to be no better than the average high school girl when you do such things and then cry about peoples' reactions.  I'd even address your rumor's ridiculousness in specific terms but it's now far more fun to make jokes at your expense.
> 
> 
> Seriously man, why don't you poke the bear a little harder and play the victim a little more.  Lol.


I think you mean well, but you really need to take a deep breath.  It's a PERFECTLY valid question in an internet ski forum to ask how a ski area can break even with only 20,000 skier visits a year.  

If you really want to garner good will and confidence, then give a good explanation to a valid question.  If that includes correcting misinformation, then go ahead and do that.  

The fact that you take this stuff personally means that you care a lot about the mountain, which is great.  But you can't let it get the better of you, which is what seems to be happening.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I think you mean well, but you really need to take a deep breath.  It's a PERFECTLY valid question in an internet ski forum to ask how a ski area can break even with only 20,000 skier visits a year.
> 
> If you really want to garner good will and confidence, then give a good explanation to a valid question.  If that includes correcting misinformation, then go ahead and do that.
> 
> The fact that you take this stuff personally means that you care a lot about the mountain, which is great.  But you can't let it get the better of you, which is what seems to be happening.



When you have no idea what their expenses are how can you make any estimation on how viable their business is, or how profitable their number of skiers is? It's irresponsible, ill-informed and ignorant. But by all means proceed, and then tell DW your thoughts on his psychological approach to managing his feeling.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

take a deep breath. hahahah. GFY


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Not to mention they've broken even at that level- and even made a modest profit in years past.  All without a really well organized ski school and a dismal rental situation.  Even just incremental improvements could net them a good profit as long as they keep their operating costs low.



Agreed. Maybe a club is appropriate 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

MMP said:


> I apologize & am excited to host AZ day.



Way to turn the other cheek.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> did you know I'm the guy that plays the country music on the jukebox



i didn't. thanks man!


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I think you mean well, but you really need to take a deep breath.  It's a PERFECTLY valid question in an internet ski forum to ask how a ski area can break even with only 20,000 skier visits a year.
> 
> If you really want to garner good will and confidence, then give a good explanation to a valid question.  If that includes correcting misinformation, then go ahead and do that.
> 
> The fact that you take this stuff personally means that you care a lot about the mountain, which is great.  But you can't let it get the better of you, which is what seems to be happening.





There is no getting the better of me, there's just not being able to handle what I have to say about your opinion.  Also I already referred to "simple math" in the obvious sense of very low operating costs meaning a very low break even point. I was more surprised at the "well I talked to a guy with no direct experience and he said..." Kind of shit.  I mean coooooome oooooon.  

I think I've done a pretty good job of explaining myself so far but that just struck me as obnoxious.  The fact that everyone else has been so thin skinned at my taking issue with it does not bode well for future relations haha...  Maybe you guys aren't cut out for Magic after all hahaha :flag:


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> :flag:



why do you taunt me?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

MMP said:


> My twin brother Dave bumps the Red chairs!



I knew you were connected but had no idea.  Good dude.


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I knew you were connected but had no idea.  Good dude.



you win



edit: "bumps" haha


----------



## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Dude you're spreading "word" aka rumors in a thread that we're trying to use to answer questions and build confidence in.  Call us middle schoolers all you want but you're showing yourself to be no better than the average high school girl when you do such things and then cry about peoples' reactions.  I'd even address your rumor's ridiculousness in specific terms but it's now far more fun to make jokes at your expense.
> 
> 
> Seriously man, why don't you poke the bear a little harder and play the victim a little more.  Lol.



If you knew who I was you would know you (Magic) has no bigger ally. I did not mean any harm nor was any of this meant as slander, but they are tough issues that I felt warranted discussion. I apologize if I came off like I did. I am all for discussing the positive things going on of which there are plenty. Cool?


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?????


Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## MMP (Aug 31, 2015)

you're newpylong?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Aug 31, 2015)

Let it go.  I laughed a little today.  Nobody is upset.  Come ski with us.


----------



## Do Work (Aug 31, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> If you knew who I was you would know you (Magic) has no bigger ally. I did not mean any harm nor was any of this meant as slander, but they are tough issues that I felt warranted discussion. I apologize if I came off like I did. I am all for discussing the positive things going on of which there are plenty. Cool?





Cool


----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 31, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Considering even a place like Whaleback gets that many skier visits than that I don't know how they can keep the lights on, let alone make snow and put capital into anything.
> 
> I think I mentioned it before but when I talked to a lift inspector last year he said he wasn't sure how Black could even be given a license anymore. Let's hope they can do the work to get it.
> 
> What does Magic have for pumps and compressors? Oddly out of all my visits I never remember seeing the plant, is it that cluster of buildings directly behind Black? If diesel stays as or near current prices they may make out better this year. Assuming they have diesel compressors of course...




Magic skiers spend more time and money (good profit in alcohol) at the bar talking about incompetent lift inspectors who speculate on things that they probably shouldn't. As I understand it, the VT lift inspectors are a pretty competent and tough crew in certifying lifts. 

Magic's pumps and compressors are located in the buildings below the black chair as well as some sheds down by the pond.


----------



## Sorcerer (Aug 31, 2015)

MMP said:


> why do you taunt me?



Because you won't bring the bucket truck to fix the flag pole ropes so the flags can fly at the top.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 31, 2015)

This is a hostile environment. I'm calling HR


----------



## slatham (Aug 31, 2015)

Wow, off the thread for a day and it becomes worse than one of those "Housewives" shows!

Can we get back on topic? Like news or insight or legit questions about Magic?

So here's some uplifting insight sure to make you all happy: tomorrow starts the month that begins the fall season.


----------



## vonski (Aug 31, 2015)

So, Does anyone actually know why the black failed last year?  I thought I remember reading or hearing from someone on the lift ride up while skiing one day last year, about the chairs not swinging correctly anymore, but I am not sure.  If that is the case they would need to replace the bearings on the arms to fix something like that I would think.   Trying to get back on topic.  Which would take a torch and press likely to get the old ones out if it is anything like the bearings on my KIA.


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 31, 2015)

let me as more unsubstantiated mostly incorrect facts to further clarify black chair problems.

wtf is up with the black chair?

my memory is shot so i'm not sure if it was 2 years ago or 3... maybe 4.. anyway.. lets say 4 years ago black chair was down for the season. .the following year they got it up and running at some point during the season.  i actually rode it so i know it happened. then it died again and somebody said something (might have been a guy from New Mexico) that inspectors declared  it was so fubar'd that it would never be allowed to run again.    how did it get up and running that season before?


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 31, 2015)

black chair ran on March 10, 2013


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I already referred to "simple math" in the obvious sense of very low operating costs meaning a very low break even point


Simple math 20,000 skier visits equaling $950,000 gross (taken from pg. 1) translates into $47.50 per skier visit. That in my opinion sucks.


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 31, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> let me as more unsubstantiated mostly incorrect facts to further clarify black chair problems.
> 
> wtf is up with the black chair?
> 
> my memory is shot so i'm not sure if it was 2 years ago or 3... maybe 4.. anyway.. lets say 4 years ago black chair was down for the season. .the following year they got it up and running at some point during the season.  i actually rode it so i know it happened. then it died again and somebody said something (might have been a guy from New Mexico) that inspectors declared  it was so fubar'd that it would never be allowed to run again.    how did it get up and running that season before?



bleh, nevermind. apparently i rode the black chair in march of 2013 and march 2012 so my incorrect facts are way off.

here are some nice pictures of the lifts at magic


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 31, 2015)

vonski said:


> So, Does anyone actually know why the black failed last year?  I thought I remember reading or hearing from someone on the lift ride up while skiing one day last year, about the chairs not swinging correctly anymore, but I am not sure.  If that is the case they would need to replace the bearings on the arms to fix something like that I would think.   Trying to get back on topic.  Which would take a torch and press likely to get the old ones out if it is anything like the bearings on my KIA.



I believe the arm rest was deemed medical hazard. Those things came so low that I believe I lost circulation to my feet on multiple occasions. This is all second hand though since my feet can't talk.


----------



## vonski (Aug 31, 2015)

Even with the red only running last year the February Holiday Saturdays and one other Saturday when there was a couple races going on were there any lines. And then I just waited by the passholders line and looked for a single to go up with!  So, if the black was running I could not imagine any lines at all.  Hoping for another good snow year!


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 31, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Maybe you guys aren't cut out for Magic after all hahaha :flag:


Yeah it's way to gnarly for me. If you're trying to be an ambassador for Magic you're doing a pretty poor job. Stick to TGR where you kiss each others butts.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 31, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> I suppose this is true for some. I try to be realistic about my "homerism" and not be over the top with my exuberance when speaking to those not as familiar but for many of us, that is exsctly how we look at it. Would we like things better and more reliable? Absolutely.  However, even with the negative events captured in your post, I still love the place and choose to ski there every week because of the terrain, the vibe and the people. It's the overall experience that many of us find so special.


It has nothing to do with you owning a condo at the base. You'd still chose Magic over any other area you could own a condo at.

Yeah right.


----------



## roark (Sep 1, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Yeah it's way to gnarly for me. If you're trying to be an ambassador for Magic you're doing a pretty poor job. Stick to TGR where you kiss each others butts.


it's ok. you can start on the east side and work your way up.


----------



## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It has nothing to do with you owning a condo at the base. You'd still chose Magic over any other area you could own a condo at.
> 
> Yeah right.



How's the view from up there douche?  I can ski (or buy if so inclined) where I want and choose magic. My wife wants to retire in Stowe (well the beach actually, but that's not happening). Skied there last year a few times and prefer magic.  Always. 

So what's your point?


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 1, 2015)

vonski said:


> So, Does anyone actually know why the black failed last year?  I thought I remember reading or hearing from someone on the lift ride up while skiing one day last year, about the chairs not swinging correctly anymore, but I am not sure.  If that is the case they would need to replace the bearings on the arms to fix something like that I would think.   Trying to get back on topic.  Which would take a torch and press likely to get the old ones out if it is anything like the bearings on my KIA.



When the black chair was installed, replacing the blue double, the bearings in the connectors were replaced with some kind of no grease plastic which is no longer "slippery" and so the chairs do not swing easily. New bearings have to be installed in each chair. I heard that that work is underway but I'm not sure.


----------



## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

Is that what they're wasting their time on instead of the flagpole?

Maybe they didn't hear "the word" from NH


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 1, 2015)

The Magic faithful have turned heel! This is worse than when Hulk Hogan joined NWA....or was it NWO


----------



## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> The Magic faithful have turned heel! This is worse than when Hulk Hogan joined NWA....or was it NWO



Free your heels!!!'


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 1, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You'd still chose Magic over any other area you could own a condo at.
> 
> Yeah right.



100%.  Sorry to speak for you JR.  My answer to this ridiculous question.  Some of us love skiing there more than anywhere else, despite it's shortcomings.


----------



## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> 100%.  Even if there wasn't men only disco night. .



But there is


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 1, 2015)

Yeah, I can totally see why for some Magic is their favorite.  My favorite in NH is Wildcat.  It's got a lot of warts, but I love the vibe, minimal liftlines and uncrowded slopes.  I've got family places to stay within 30 minutes of Killington.  As much as I like their terrain and the early and late season product they provide, never in my life have I desired to have Boshatten on a hillside be my home mountain.  Glad it and the other Southern VT behomths attract as many people as they do.  Makes for a better experience at the old school areas like Magic, Cannon, Wildcat etc where it's all about the skiing.


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## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Yeah, I can totally see why for some Magic is their favorite.  My favorite in NH is Wildcat.  It's got a lot of warts, but I love the vibe, minimal liftlines and uncrowded slopes.  I've got family places to stay within 30 minutes of Killington.  As much as I like their terrain and the early and late season product they provide, never in my life have I desired to have Boshatten on a hillside be my home mountain.  Glad it and the other Southern VT behomths attract as many people as they do.  Makes for a better experience at the old school areas like Magic, Cannon, Wildcat etc where it's all about the skiing.




what we have in common is that Wildcat and Magic have great terrain. I wouldn't ski at Bromley no matter how good the vibe, or people are. I'd find another place with great skiing, and vibe, and people. 

I have decided that my most accurate metric for determining how much I like the vibe of a place is the more female tele skiers, the better I like it. Mad, Alta, A-Basin.....


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## Do Work (Sep 1, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> let me as more unsubstantiated mostly incorrect facts to further clarify black chair problems.
> 
> wtf is up with the black chair?
> 
> my memory is shot so i'm not sure if it was 2 years ago or 3... maybe 4.. anyway.. lets say 4 years ago black chair was down for the season. .the following year they got it up and running at some point during the season.  i actually rode it so i know it happened. then it died again and somebody said something (might have been a guy from New Mexico) that inspectors declared  it was so fubar'd that it would never be allowed to run again.    how did it get up and running that season before?




Basically, it was shut down on incorrect assumptions, which was proven to the state after some they fixed the rub rails that were causing the condition noted (not what the inspector thought it was).  Shut down order was subsequently lifted and work resumed. 

Now they're just all getting new-fangled bearing hooziwhatzits for the grips.  Not a huge deal but time consuming and labor intensive nonetheless. 




steamboat1 said:


> Yeah it's way to gnarly for me. If you're trying to be an ambassador for Magic you're doing a pretty poor job. Stick to TGR where you kiss each others butts.




Bahahaha...  The butthurt is sooooooo strong with this one.  Go back to Epic, Steamy.  You can't handle the Magic truth.


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## jrmagic (Sep 1, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It has nothing to do with you owning a condo at the base. You'd still chose Magic over any other area you could own a condo at.
> 
> Yeah right.



You can believe what you want Steve. What Rusty said while  speaking for me is spot on. There are  quite a few condo owners who have bought in the last several years who came in with eyes wide open about the mountain and bought anyway. There are even more folks who came here to check it out and are now passholders.  I don't need to convince naysayers. I'm always willing to show people around and give honest answers and let them decide for themselves. It's definitely not for everybody but a pretty good percentage of them seem to keep coming back.


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## drjeff (Sep 1, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> You can believe what you want Steve. What Rusty said while  speaking for me is spot on. There are  quite a few condo owners who have bought in the last several years who came in with eyes wide open about the mountain and bought anyway. There are even more folks who came here to check it out and are now passholders.  I don't need to convince naysayers. I'm always willing to show people around and give honest answers and let them decide for themselves. It's definitely not for everybody but a pretty good percentage of them seem to keep coming back.



The thing that people who aren't property owners at a certain ski area don't seem to fully grasp, is that while the skiing is an important decision about why you chose to buy property there, its just one of many factors that ultimately made you want to sign the mortgage papers.  It can be about the proximity to your permanent residence, your family situation and how it works at that particular ski area, friends that you have at that ski area, the overall feeling and vibe that you get from that ski area, off season recreation and relaxation opportunities at the area and in that general region, etc, etc, etc.

All that comes together to make to choose to buy there, and when it does all come together, you feel a strong sense of pride and community towards that mountain, and there are likely many others, with that same sense of pride and community towards that same mountain that you share a common bond with.  It's really something that unless you've experienced it 1st hand, you can't really grasp it.  And once you've experienced it 1st hand, you know it's something that you want to continue for a long time to come!


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 1, 2015)

& dr."J" gets it right.  Good post


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## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Save me a dance DrJeff



smooth


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## Smellytele (Sep 1, 2015)

drjeff said:


> All that comes together to make to choose to buy there, and when it does all come together, you feel a strong sense of pride and community towards that mountain, and there are likely many others, with that same sense of pride and community towards that same mountain that you share a common bond with.  It's really something that unless you've experienced it 1st hand, you can't really grasp it.  And once you've experienced it 1st hand, you know it's something that you want to continue for a long time to come!



It is the same with most decisions in life. Most but not all people will defend their decisions that they have made albeit a car purchased, a timeshare purchased, a condo purchased, a new job or a companion married. It is human nature to do so.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 1, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> You can believe what you want Steve. What Rusty said while  speaking for me is spot on. There are  quite a few condo owners who have bought in the last several years who came in with eyes wide open about the mountain and bought anyway. There are even more folks who came here to check it out and are now passholders.  I don't need to convince naysayers. I'm always willing to show people around and give honest answers and let them decide for themselves. It's definitely not for everybody but a pretty good percentage of them seem to keep coming back.



Don't know MMP or Do Work but both Jon and Greg (George....Gary....) are great ambassadors for the mountain and will make sure that you get the grand tour. They may come off as assholes but they will make sure that you have a good time lol.


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## Sorcerer (Sep 1, 2015)

Is there any new info on when the sale is going to happen?


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Sep 1, 2015)

From yesterday's Alpine Update:

The mountain ops team is working hard to prepare Magic for the upcoming season. 

We will be hosting a couple private events in the lodge during the next month but will not open the Black Line Tavern to the public until the new ownership group is on-board.

In the meantime, we look forward to seeing the Magic community come together for our Volunteer Days this fall: 9/26, 10/10, 10/17. Come for one or all days and get ready to prepare the mountain and facilities for a great season. Details and sign-up information will be posted shortly.


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## MMP (Sep 1, 2015)

Not referring to "the faithful" is a step in the right direction.


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## makimono (Sep 1, 2015)

If they keep this good communication up I may have to get a new sticker :dunce:


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## Do Work (Sep 1, 2015)

makimono said:


> If they keep this good communication up I may have to get a new sticker :dunce:




Get all the new ones you want but you are NEVER allowed to get rid of that one hahaha


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## Magic (Sep 1, 2015)

drjeff said:


> The thing that people who aren't property owners at a certain ski area don't seem to fully grasp, is that while the skiing is an important decision about why you chose to buy property there, its just one of many factors that ultimately made you want to sign the mortgage papers.  It can be about the proximity to your permanent residence, your family situation and how it works at that particular ski area, friends that you have at that ski area, the overall feeling and vibe that you get from that ski area, off season recreation and relaxation opportunities at the area and in that general region, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> All that comes together to make to choose to buy there, and when it does all come together, you feel a strong sense of pride and community towards that mountain, and there are likely many others, with that same sense of pride and community towards that same mountain that you share a common bond with.  It's really something that unless you've experienced it 1st hand, you can't really grasp it.  And once you've experienced it 1st hand, you know it's something that you want to continue for a long time to come!



Amen!


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 2, 2015)

vonski said:


> So, Does anyone actually know why the black failed last year?  I thought I remember reading or hearing from someone on the lift ride up while skiing one day last year, about the chairs not swinging correctly anymore, but I am not sure.  If that is the case they would need to replace the bearings on the arms to fix something like that I would think.   Trying to get back on topic.  Which would take a torch and press likely to get the old ones out if it is anything like the bearings on my KIA.



As I understand it, they ran the chair during the Black Magic Challenge or another free ride event. The inspector told the management (Sullivan) not to run the lift as it comes about six feet from the slope at one point. I rode the lift that day and the views were awesome. Of course, people like that have no problem with a lift "obstacle". But if you cross the inspector- woe is you.

So then it "failed"

Joe


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## SnowRock (Sep 2, 2015)

Last year was my first ever trip to Magic. I'd probably be the sort they'd want coming back/more often. I had been a bit scared away about the lift situation so getting another option running would make me more at ease with the choice to ride there more frequently. 

It hard to pontificate about the market as I don't know the overall so vt skier/rider demos... but why not. To me the selling point is simply the terrain. Its unmatched in my experience of Southern VT mountains. I think there is probably a good sized group of like minded sorts that would come back for more of that once experienced. I can also see how Magic might appeal to a family as a mountain without the sprawl that can enable skiing on different trails without the fear of separation. So you need to get people on mountain to experience that terrain and do so while encouraging families of mixed abilities. That would probably be the marketing riddle I worked on.  That is also why you need lift reliability.. that first visit needs to be a good one. Obviously snow making also plays a role there but I think that is something you can properly manage expectations around. 

Hitting Magic on a day like I had its easy to see why people love it. I'll head back again this year for sure... and maybe more than once.


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## Do Work (Sep 3, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> As I understand it, they ran the chair during the Black Magic Challenge or another free ride event. The inspector told the management (Sullivan) not to run the lift as it comes about six feet from the slope at one point. I rode the lift that day and the views were awesome. Of course, people like that have no problem with a lift "obstacle". But if you cross the inspector- woe is you.
> 
> So then it "failed"
> 
> Joe





While it's true that they were not allowed to run the black chair during the STE comp due to clearance (way more than 6' though), it's not true that's why it was "failed" at all-  That was due to mechanical concerns that are currently being remedied.  Also, it may be possible to circumvent the clearance problems by selectively fencing off areas of concern, and I'm sure that will be looked into by patrol this season.    

The lift inspectors are all great guys though.  They have a tough job for sure, and I understand their concerns.


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## sull1102 (Sep 3, 2015)

Do Work said:


> While it's true that they were not allowed to run the black chair during the STE comp due to clearance (way more than 6' though), it's not true that's why it was "failed" at all-  That was due to mechanical concerns that are currently being remedied.  Also, it may be possible to circumvent the clearance problems by selectively fencing off areas of concern, and I'm sure that will be looked into by patrol this season.
> 
> The lift inspectors are all great guys though.  They have a tough job for sure, and I understand their concerns.



Sounds like there's a chance the black chair will be up and running this year?


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## prsboogie (Sep 3, 2015)

So when, realistically, do you think they may finalize this shite, and announce the new ownership?


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## slatham (Sep 3, 2015)

I think SnowRock's comments are very indicative of how people feel when they first ski Magic, assuming the conditions are OK and the lifts don't have any issues. In  fact, I can't recall anyone having skied Magic under such circumstances and yet claim to not want to return! Sure, they will have comments typical of people use to nearby resorts (lifts are slow, lodge a bit dated, "what's with the half finished ghost lift?", etc) but in the end its always "I'll be back". That is why I think Magic is SO close to making a serious go of it.


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## yeggous (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm not sure why people love the Magic terrain so much. Sure it's better than the local competition, but that's sort of like winning the special Olympics. For the same drive time, there are numerous better options for New Englanders.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


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## slatham (Sep 3, 2015)

Re: Black, from what I understand from reliable, inside sources from last spring, there was an agreed path to fix Black to the satisfaction of the inspectors. What I do not know is whether any of that works was done, or if not, whether, it can be completed before the season (I thus hope Do Work is right). However, I find it hard to believe that new owners would come in and not fix Black for this season, but this is IMHO. But if I had to bet I'd say Black is running.

On the ownership changes, given the recent pick up in web site and FB activity, and the scheduled volunteer days, which I SPECULATE is being driven by the new owners, I would SPECULATE that they have to be close, very close. But as a businessman I know that things can unravel so my fingers remain crossed.


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## slatham (Sep 3, 2015)

yeggous, just out of curiosity, what options do you refer?


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## billski (Sep 3, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'm not sure why people love the Magic terrain so much.


It's pretty plain in my book.  No lines.  Anywhere.  Ski where you want.  Cheap for the challenge, but also for the neglected blues and greens.  Close by.  Easy to park, unload, boot up, get a seat.  Great place to hide on the holidays.

Full disclosure:  I'd never buy a season pass, nor a condo at any one area.  Too boring.  I ski up and down the spine of VT, favoring those with the best blacks and BC.  Down south, I don't care for Stratton or Okemo (not chill, little challenge).  When I buy tix in the summer, Magic is in the mix with Jay, $teaux, Sugarbush, MRG, Saddleback and Sugarloaf.  I ski lots of other areas to be with other people, but not for myself.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 3, 2015)

There is a lot to love about Magic.  But that love evaporates very quickly when there is a bad snow year.  If I did not live locally, I'd be nervous buying a season's pass at Magic and risking the weather.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 3, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> There is a lot to love about Magic.  But that love evaporates very quickly when there is a bad snow year.  If I did mot live locally, I'd be nervous buying a season's pass at Magic and risking the weather.



I don't think that factors into the logic of most Magic skiers.  They'd rather ski Magic only partially open with exposed dirt and rocks than ski at the other local hills on pristine manmade.   Conditions and terrain aren't the only draw.  Now this obviously limits their pool of core customers because the average Joe puts a higher premium on conditions and is willing to tolerate the masses.

It's the same reason that I have no desire for a Loon pass even though it's very convenient for me.


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## billski (Sep 3, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> But that love evaporates very quickly when there is a bad snow year.\.


  Depends on the beholder.  Don't discount all the repair work done to the snow making equipment.  An investor with deeper pockets could afford to let the snowmaking run longer.  Some of it is the weather, some is the owner.


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## Do Work (Sep 3, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'm not sure why people love the Magic terrain so much. Sure it's better than the local competition, but that's sort of like winning the special Olympics. For the same drive time, there are numerous better options for New Englanders.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app








Well that depends on a lot of things like where you're driving from and what you find particularly endearing about specific places.  If you can't see why people love the terrain at Magic, I'm guessing that's simply not what you're after- and that's totally fine too.  That's why they make more than one flavor of ice cream :beer: I know plenty of people perfectly happy across the valley and I'm happy that they're happy.          

Look, I'll be the first to say that Magic isn't for every person everywhere.  The things that make it unique some find addictive, while others may simply find it unenjoyable.  Some people are really into the whole built-up resort deal.  Some people want steamrolled-flat, 100% groomed and straight-down-the-fall-line trails that are all very similar to one another.  I'm not one of those people though.  I really appreciate the natural challenge that it provides, the affordability of the place in general, the "Cheers on skis" friendliness, the multitude of hidden options throughout the place and not to mention the way that it just keeps getting measurably better every year.


If that's not your cup of tea, quite frankly- good more for me!   


Mark my words though, Black will pass inspection and run this season.  Everybody knows the mountain needs it.  Everybody.


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## Do Work (Sep 3, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> There is a lot to love about Magic.  But that love evaporates very quickly when there is a bad snow year.  If I did not live locally, I'd be nervous buying a season's pass at Magic and risking the weather.




Fortunately their snowmaking and grooming have increased considerably, even in recent years.  Efficiency improvements, equipment advances and allocation have all received a lot of attention.  magic knows it needs to perform in sub-par conditions, and they have done a great job increasing their competency in doing so.  

I'm honestly going to say the grooming is better than the big guys- they lay down the same snow (actually more natural-feeling as they do not use the wheat-based additives many resorts do) and the grooming equipment is the same- they have a BR350 cat that lays down amazing cord and a KILLER set of operators for it.  With a lot less traffic, you are quite literally going to find fresh cord MUCH later in the day, not to mention that the groomers don't get anywhere near as scraped off, so even the steeper groomed trails generally stay far more edgeable than most are used to.  

Those that think Magic is a WROD of ice cookies likely have not been there for about 6 years or so.  There was a time when conditions really did suck on non-pow days, but those times thankfully are behind us and great strides in snowmaking and grooming have really ramped up the experience on low tide occasions.


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## Newpylong (Sep 3, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'm not sure why people love the Magic terrain so much. Sure it's better than the local competition, but that's sort of like winning the special Olympics. For the same drive time, there are numerous better options for New Englanders.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app



Terrain is but one variable in the decision. Magic is up there with the Whalebacks and the Mt. Abrams' of New England - they are off the beaten path, affordable, slower paced, and safe places to ski and to bring families. The killer terrain is icing on the cake.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 3, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Those that think Magic is a WROD of ice cookies likely have not been there for about 6 years or so.


It has been several years since I have skied Magic.  I am happy to hear that snowmaking and grooming have improved.


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## slatham (Sep 3, 2015)

The grooming has improved and last year was outright exceptional. You could spend the whole day doing nothing but cruising the groomers and be very, very happy. This is another fact that needs to be spread too.


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## vonski (Sep 3, 2015)

Ya the grooming was quite nice last year.  I would do a groomer run to get warmed up, then an ungroomed or woods run then a groomer and then a woods run etc.  As, it would let the legs last a bit longer each day.


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## billski (Sep 3, 2015)

I took a lower-intermediate to Magic for the first time last year.  She always has skied at Okemo.  She absolutely loved the groomers at Magic, so much so, she and two girlfriends came back from NJ for a second weekend last year.  That says way more than I can ever say.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Sep 3, 2015)

Im familiar with WROD days at Magic. This talk of improved manmade skiing at Magic peaks my interest.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 3, 2015)

I posted a video, ironically for Billski of the groomers last year.  Let me see if I can dig it up.  Fantastic grooming that has gotten better every year.


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## billski (Sep 3, 2015)

skifastr said:


> Im familiar with WROD days at Magic. This talk of improved manmade skiing at Magic peaks my interest.


They closed up this past year with way more than a WROD, and the woods were still rocking.   With all the clearing that's been done in the woods, it's effectively added to the skiable acreage, much to the disappointment of the woodchucks.


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## boofenstien (Sep 3, 2015)

Went there for the first time by myself last year and had a blast I went back with a carfull back at the end of Feb, with the amount of Snow they got and lack of traffic, best groomers in VT I skied all year. I did however laugh at the "passholders only" line that came out when it got busy.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 3, 2015)

No idea what I'm doing wrong here.  Anyone?  Using the Vimeo icon?


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## gmcunni (Sep 3, 2015)

boofenstien said:


> I did however laugh at the "passholders only" line that came out when it got busy.



seriously? that seems like a very non-magic thing to do


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 3, 2015)

I don't think passholders even paid much attention to it.  Certainly was not enforced that I remember.


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## Magic (Sep 3, 2015)

Today I was at a local store about 300 miles from VT wearing a Magic shirt. A guy said "Is that Magic Mountain, VT" ?. He said he has been skiing Bromley for years and has always looked over at Magic and never been. He said he heard its great "when there's a dump". I told him of the upcoming changes, snowmaking overall, and family friendly atmosphere. He said he may give it a try. My point here is this- when the changes are in place, there needs to be MAJOR P/R marketing event  letting people know what's happening. Billboards, newspapers, skiing magazines, etc. In addition, why not a "first timers" ticket? Not sure how this would work but you have to lure people here. They are not going to risk it and take a chance for a full price ticket. Just my opinion but was proud to brag about "my" mountain


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## billski (Sep 3, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> seriously? that seems like a very non-magic thing to do


   I always get a chuckle when they put up the ropes.  Necessary for about 45 minutes on a holiday day.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 3, 2015)

Years ago.  I bought 15 day tickets with my own cash with the mountains blessing.  (Not transferable)  Sold them here to "1st timers" for what I paid, $40.  People sent me their name & a ticket was waiting for them @ the ticket office. They'd find me pay me later.  All on the honor system & it worked out extremely well.

Directed @ "Magic".  Its a good idea to attract some new skiers.


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## billski (Sep 3, 2015)

What's with this assertion that they need the black chair operating?  Why?  They don't even fill all the chairs on the red yet.  Are you west side skiers really that lazy you can't cruise across the top to the trails or schlep across the beginner area to get to the base of the lift?  I don't know squat, but I wouldn't be opening a second lift  until the first lift was fully utilized.  Seems to me that either lift gets you to pretty much all of the trails on either side.


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## Smellytele (Sep 3, 2015)

billski said:


> What's with this assertion that they need the black chair operating?  Why?  They don't even fill all the chairs on the red yet.  Are you west side skiers really that lazy you can't cruise across the top to the trails or schlep across the beginner area to get to the base of the lift?  I don't know squat, but I wouldn't be opening a second lift  until the first lift was fully utilized.  Seems to me that either lift gets you to pretty much all of the trails on either side.



When one breaks down the other gets ya to the top. I have been there when there is only the red and it went down - hit the bar. Also been there when only the black was running when the red went down. 35 min wait for the black that day. They need both - don't need to run both unless needed.


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## Do Work (Sep 3, 2015)

billski said:


> What's with this assertion that they need the black chair operating?  Why?  They don't even fill all the chairs on the red yet.  Are you west side skiers really that lazy you can't cruise across the top to the trails or schlep across the beginner area to get to the base of the lift?  I don't know squat, but I wouldn't be opening a second lift  until the first lift was fully utilized.  Seems to me that either lift gets you to pretty much all of the trails on either side.




Trust me, there were many weekends last season where there was a significant line to wait in at the Red chair.  It would have been a very welcome addition at those points.  Ops is great at only using as much as they have to though.


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## Magic (Sep 3, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Years ago.  I bought 15 day tickets with my own cash with the mountains blessing.  (Not transferable)  Sold them here to "1st timers" for what I paid, $40.  People sent me their name & a ticket was waiting for them @ the ticket office. They'd find me pay me later.  All on the honor system & it worked out extremely well.
> 
> Directed @ "Magic".  Its a good idea to attract some new skiers.



Great idea! I saw plenty of "comp tickets" on jackets this year but unfortunately not for the same reasons. We brought a family up with us 2 years ago and requested a discount rate from the old owner or whatever he was (JS) for our 1st time friends (we are "shareholders" and spend plenty !) . Well, the answer was no, so this family of four paid full price for tubing, rentals, etc. for a mountain that was half open, and our friends did not return to ski there. A few bucks off would have made a great impression and a return to the mountain.


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## slatham (Sep 3, 2015)

Billski, there have been significant times in years past (not last year though) where the mountain did not open due to reliance on Red and Red went down. And 2 years ago when Red went down disaster was averted only because Black was finally back on line. While we are hopefully past that situation with Red's overhaul, there is a contingent of people (my family included) who are very leery of heading over to Magic with only one lift running (a couple of them spent a cold 45 minutes stranded on Red during an epic Christmas dump several years ago and then had to bail to Bromley).

People also stayed away last year during Presidents weekend due to the expected crowds due to the races. I know it wasn't a disaster but the lines were pretty long. With both lifts running there would be no lines and everyone who was thinking of heading to Magic would have gone. 

Two reliable lifts are needed to get to the next level.


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## drjeff (Sep 3, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Trust me, there were many weekends last season where there was a significant line to wait in at the Red chair.  It would have been a very welcome addition at those points.  Ops is great at only using as much as they have to though.



This coming season, just from the Southern VT Council alpine junior racing series, Magic is hosting races on January 17th and 30th, February 14 and March 20th, and that's just for the u10, U12 and u14 age groups, the u16/18 age group schedule hasn't been posted yet.  Let alone the usual stops at Magic by the tele race crew, the freeride tour, etc.  Having 2 reliabily working lifts, for at least portions of the day, is a needed thing, and one which I look forward to enjoying on the 3 days days my kids have scheduled at Magic this coming season!


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## vonski (Sep 3, 2015)

Also, having Black open gives you a triple, So if looking to attract families, then the parent with two kids can take the Black and not have to let one kid ride alone.  Especially, if one of the kids is just younger. Sure both kids can ride together but again if they are younger they can be with their parent together!


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## dlague (Sep 3, 2015)

slatham said:


> Billski, there have been significant times in years past (not last year though) where the mountain did not open due to reliance on Red and Red went down. And 2 years ago when Red went down disaster was averted only because Black was finally back on line. While we are hopefully past that situation with Red's overhaul, there is a contingent of people (my family included) who are very leery of heading over to Magic with only one lift running (a couple of them spent a cold 45 minutes stranded on Red during an epic Christmas dump several years ago and then had to bail to Bromley).
> 
> People also stayed away last year during Presidents weekend due to the expected crowds due to the races. I know it wasn't a disaster but the lines were pretty long. With both lifts running there would be no lines and everyone who was thinking of heading to Magic would have gone.
> 
> Two reliable lifts are needed to get to the next level.





drjeff said:


> This coming season, just from the Southern VT Council alpine junior racing series, Magic is hosting races on January 17th and 30th, February 14 and March 20th, and that's just for the u10, U12 and u14 age groups, the u16/18 age group schedule hasn't been posted yet.  Let alone the usual stops at Magic by the tele race crew, the freeride tour, etc.  Having 2 reliabily working lifts, for at least portions of the day, is a needed thing, and one which I look forward to enjoying on the 3 days days my kids have scheduled at Magic this coming season!





vonski said:


> Also, having Black open gives you a triple, So if looking to attract families, then the parent with two kids can take the Black and not have to let one kid ride alone.  Especially, if one of the kids is just younger. Sure both kids can ride together but again if they are younger they can be with their parent together!



We skied there two seasons ago with just the Black chair on President's Day and the line was ridiculous.  Last year we got there and Black was not operating and Red was running and we went president's day again (RSNE) and of course races were being held too,  The lines were better organized but it was a long wait we bailed after a few runs and then went back out around 3.  They really need to have both chairs running - I would love to see that.  Have not yet.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

I never thought I'd say this but I am stoked to see this groomer video!


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

Magic said:


> Great idea! I saw plenty of "comp tickets" on jackets this year but unfortunately not for the same reasons. We brought a family up with us 2 years ago and requested a discount rate from the old owner or whatever he was (JS) for our 1st time friends (we are "shareholders" and spend plenty !) . Well, the answer was no, so this family of four paid full price for tubing, rentals, etc. for a mountain that was half open, and our friends did not return to ski there. A few bucks off would have made a great impression and a return to the mountain.



Great. Go try that shit anywhere.  Your friends will have to take up figure skating. Hi OKEMO we have passes and spend thousands here, please cut the prices for our friends. Try that at the grocery store. We buy food here every week, we are ENTITLED to a discount. Screw your friends. Everyone pays full price. 

You have to charge your friends, your enemies dont do business with you

Edit: the marketing has appeared to be focused on finding groups to discount tickets to. From CT? Discount. From NH? Discount?  Anyone can give shit away.  It's easy. Harder to sell and attract new business.


----------



## slatham (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP, I generally agree with your sentiment. But Magic isn't just "anywhere" and good will is very valuable, especially for a first time family. That said, its a slippery slope - where do you draw the line, and how do you know they are really first timers? But my gut would be that since the host family had donated $3k toward Magic ("shareholders") and the mountain was 1/2 open, I would have given them a break. But in this capacity I am an armchair owner. When I own a ski area we'll see how I feel about discounts!


----------



## Magic (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> Great. Go try that shit anywhere.  Your friends will have to take up figure skating. Hi OKEMO we have passes and spend thousands here, please cut the prices for our friends. Try that at the grocery store. We buy food here every week, we are ENTITLED to a discount. Screw your friends. Everyone pays full price.
> 
> You have to charge your friends, your enemies dont do business with you
> 
> Edit: the marketing has appeared to be focused on finding groups to discount tickets to. From CT? Discount. From NH? Discount?  Anyone can give shit away.  It's easy. Harder to sell and attract new business.



Attitudes like this is why businesses fail. Check out strattons snow 
guarantee policy....


----------



## Magic (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> Great. Go try that shit anywhere.  Your friends will have to take up figure skating. Hi OKEMO we have passes and spend thousands here, please cut the prices for our friends. Try that at the grocery store. We buy food here every week, we are ENTITLED to a discount. Screw your friends. Everyone pays full price.
> 
> You have to charge your friends, your enemies dont do business with you
> 
> Edit: the marketing has appeared to be focused on finding groups to discount tickets to. From CT? Discount. From NH? Discount?  Anyone can give shit away.  It's easy. Harder to sell and attract new business.



Attitudes like this is why businesses fail. Check out strattons guarantee policy....


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

Magic said:


> Attitudes like this is why businesses fail. Check out strattons guarantee policy....




That is definitely not why they fail haha...  I will be the first to say that while the shareholders program intended and did a lot of good, there were a ton of people who took the meaning of their $3k way waaaaaaaay too far.  We had to stop one guy from driving his jeep straight up showoff once-  His response?  "Oh don't worry, It's cool I'm a shareholder".  Uh, no.  It's not cool.  It's not cool at all.  I can't even begin to tell you how many people thought that their $3k gave them free reign across all aspects of the business.  It was insane- some of the ugliest behaviors ever seen on the hill came as a result of the entitlement of the shareholder group members, including the firing of some good employees who "didn't respect the shareholders" (that means give them special treatment).  If it didn't possibly save the mountain for a year I would have much worse things to say about it too btw.  As someone who has literally hundreds if not thousands of hours of my time invested in projects across the hill by this point and STILL don't think they owe me shit, it blew my mind to see that dynamic play out.  I actually resigned from leading volly groups for a year because I was so disgusted.    


Everybody wants a say.  I get that.  Consideration of loyalty and the extension of goodwill also goes a long way but people need to be realistic.  If they discounted everybody who knows someone, they'd be sunk in a week because everybody there knows someone.  THAT is how businesses fail.  Especially ones running the ragged edge as it is.             


FWIW Magic I'm not trying to paint you as some kind of entitled type at all and I personally thank you for your investment/donation whatever it ended up being- it's definitely worth asking for a discount, but when the answer is no it isn't a sign the place is doing something wrong.  It's a sign that they are trying to run a profitable business which as an investor you should understand a little better IMO.  Just my .02 though, and please don't take offense to my observation- I mean to make no correlation to you personally when referring to the poor behaviors of some others.     


P.S.- Stratton sucks.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

And some stoke to lighten the mood :-D


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

We went to okemo with passes bought in bulk through the CT Ski Council. Showed up and were denied passes because my friend didn't have the business card like membership card for the CSC. We offered to email, fax, etc etc and they had none of it. We aren't kids, and this was a day that magics lift was iced and we had a guest. That was a tiny accommodation that they were unable to provide. Being angry because someone that you don't know didn't give you something is childish and smacks of entitlement. No one is ever under any obligation to do anyone else a favor. It's a gift. Not an obligation.


----------



## slatham (Sep 4, 2015)

Thanks Do Work, I need that. Given that you were filming Matt, I bet we've skied together (though I am a relative newbie compared to Matt and his crew). I look forward to skiing in those woods again soon. Hopefully we can meet up.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

slatham said:


> Thanks Do Work, I need that. Given that you were filming Matt, I bet we've skied together (though I am a relative newbie compared to Matt and his crew). I look forward to skiing in those woods again soon. Hopefully we can meet up.





Matt?  I can't stand that guy.  He's a HUGE gaper and an insufferable bastard to boot.  ;-)


I'd love to ski and have a beer (or five) with you guys!


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> We went to okemo with passes bought in bulk through the CT Ski Council. Showed up and were denied passes because my friend didn't have the business card like membership card for the CSC.


It's common practice at most areas not to honor ski club bulk tickets without a valid ski club membership card. There's good reason for this policy.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It's common practice at most areas not to honor ski club bulk tickets without a valid ski club membership card. There's good reason for this policy.




It's also common practice at every business ever not to honor discounts for friends of shareholders.  There's good reason for this policy.


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> It's common practice at most areas not to honor ski club bulk tickets without a valid ski club membership card. There's good reason for this policy.



of course there is. asking for a discount, and explaining that the card is at your ski house 20 miles away, at 11:30 am after trying to wait out an ice delay, and offering to pay and be refunded when the card was sent (that, or the next day) and being told no chance, are not equivalents. 

We are 50 year old guys, and despite being a dickhead here, consider myself fairly respectable in public (magic does not count as "public"). There is a time to provide exceptional service and earn goodwill. I have no right to expect they (Okemo) will break the rules just for me. I am not entitled to that courtesy, but asking for a discount from a guy that is on his ass financially, and any "shareholder" would know that, is not something I would do nor be upset about if denied. Asking for an accommodation for a few hours and leaving the full fee there should we not send the card is something that a reasonable business would do. Is there massive fraud with the bult tickets?

Now granted, I will NEVER buy a lift ticket there again, because I have a red ass over the way they treated us, AND the skiing and massive crowds suck (I'd rather snowshoe than ski that place). Stratton is better, and closer. That's right Do Work! Stratton!


edit: I also found JS very reasonable when buying lots of season passes for family members. Very.


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

Do Work said:


> It's also common practice at every business ever not to honor discounts for friends of shareholders.  There's good reason for this policy.



Touche  lol.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> Is there massive fraud with the bult tickets?


There was until ski areas started instituting this policy. You could even buy them on e bay at one time for a few dollars over cost.


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> There was until ski areas started instituting this policy. You could even buy them on e bay at one time for a few dollars over cost.



So those tickets got returned at the end of the year for a refund and we won't be back because of what we considered poor customer service, that cost us a couple of hours. They wanted to sell us 3 $80 lift tickets for essentially a half day. 

Someone not ever skiing magic ever again because they didn't get special pricing is biting off their nose to spite their face. No one I've told this story to thinks okemo was particularly smart for a hospitality business. My wife made us rent one of those godawful condos at Jackson gore a few years ago. Ugh. The worst. So I guess maybe they left some money on the table with us. 

They have nice flags. I'll give them that.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> So those tickets got returned at the end of the year for a refund


That's not how bulk ski club tickets work. There is no refund at the end of the year if not used. You can purchase another bulk ticket for the following season for a small handling fee plus any price increase but there is no refund. In fact most areas will only take a small percentage for return & upgrade, typically 10%-20%. So you could get burned by your unused ticket not being eligible to roll over because of to many returns. Believe me I know because I got burned once.


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> That's not how bulk ski club tickets work. There is no refund at the end of the year if not used. You can purchase another bulk ticket for the following season for a small handling fee plus any price increase but there is no refund. In fact most areas will only take a small percentage for return & upgrade, typically 10%-20%. So you could get burned by your unused ticket not being eligible to roll over because of to many returns. Believe me I know because I got burned once.



Not the first time you've been wrong, won't be the last.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> Not the first time you've been wrong, won't be the last.



You don't have to believe me. Here's the bulk ski lift ticket return policy from the CSC website. Pretty much what I said heh!

RETURN POLICY



Stratton
and
Sugarbush
will
only
accept
10%
of
unused
vouchers,
Magic,
Killington
and
Pico
will
only
accept
15%
of
unused
vouchers,
and
Bromley,
Okemo
and
Mt.
Sunapee
will
only
accept
20%
of
unused
vouchers
at
the
end
of
the
ski
season
for
credit
towards
the
next
season’s
purchase

Sorry for the way it reads but that's how a copy & paste from a PDF came out.


----------



## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

Never couldn't return them. I hope you don't ever ski at magic.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> Never couldn't return them. I hope you don't ever ski at magic.


Didn't say you couldn't return them. Only said you could only return them for a credit towards a purchase for next season not a refund as you claimed. I can ski wherever I damn well please.


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## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Didn't say you couldn't return them. Only said you could only return them for a credit towards a purchase for next season not a refund as you claimed. I can ski wherever I damn well please.





Come to think of it, Magic could really capitalize on this spite lift ticket sale scheme.


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## MMP (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Didn't say you couldn't return them. Only said you could only return them for a credit towards a purchase for next season not a refund as you claimed. I can ski wherever I damn well please.



You do not have to use them on okemo tickets. So you see, I did return them. 

Ski okemo! Or steamboat.


----------



## slatham (Sep 4, 2015)

And now back to our regularly scheduled Magic thread........


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## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

MMP said:


> You do not have to use them on okemo tickets. So you see, I did return them.


BS. You can't exchange one areas tickets for another areas tickets. Why don't you just man up & admit you were wrong?

Or you can just continue your BS, whichever suits you, doesn't matter to me.

Sounds to me this is the way Magic people roll. They're full of it.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Come to think of it, Magic could really capitalize on this spite lift ticket sale scheme.


How so? You cannot redeem $40 Magic tickets for $60 Stowe tickets. Magic is so far off the radar for my club they don't even offer them on their order form even though they are available to ski clubs.

Pretty sad for Magic if you ask me.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 4, 2015)

Yes, this really is so, so, so sad...let's all light a candle for Magic to go from "off the radar" to at least "under the radar" with that ski club.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes, this really is so, so, so sad...let's all light a candle for Magic to go from "off the radar" to at least "under the radar" with that ski club.


No skin off of my teeth. Our lodge has 50 people in it pretty much every weekend all season. Zero go to Magic. Guess you Magicians aren't interested in any of our business. Fine with me.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes, this really is so, so, so sad...let's all light a candle for Magic to go from "off the radar" to at least "under the radar" with that ski club.




Bahahahaha...  Right??  I honestly feel bad for them that they share a club with Steamy.  Those poor bastards.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 4, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> No skin off of my teeth. Our lodge has 50 people in it pretty much every weekend all season. Zero go to Magic. Guess you Magicians aren't interested in any of our business. Fine with me.




No we just aren't interested in you personally because you're perpetually negative and always out to be a prick about something you honestly don't even know anything about.  Your shitty posts were literally the reason I signed up.  I can assume your club mates are decent people simply because you're such an exceptional asshole that your level simply isn't sustainable purely on basic statistical terms.

Hell I'll sign them up for a discount if they promise not to bring you haha


----------



## MMP (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> No skin off of my teeth. Our lodge has 50 people in it pretty much every weekend all season. Zero go to Magic. Guess you Magicians aren't interested in any of our business. Fine with me.



We want families not your middle aged 70s style key party having lodge dwellers. You share a lodge with 50 people? You guys share the bathroom? Gross. To ski where? 

You should come to magic. I'll introduce you to Harry Potter. Douches of a feather.


----------



## MMP (Sep 5, 2015)

If you look closely at the top of the stage, on the roof, you can see the Phlagpole flying the American Phlag. ( Swiss are oddly unrepresented)


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> We want families


That's the thing the membership is made up of mostly families. Currently 4 generations of my family are members. Quite a few other multi-generation families too. New families joining all the time. Never hear any of them talk about Magic. They do talk about other areas from Sugarbush to Stratton all within an hours drive of the lodge. Why's that you think?


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Your shitty posts were literally the reason I signed up.


So I guess you're Magics pit bull.


----------



## MMP (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> That's the thing the membership is made up of mostly families. Currently 4 generations of my family are members. Quite a few other multi-generation families too. New families joining all the time. Never hear any of them talk about Magic. They do talk about other areas from Sugarbush to Stratton all within an hours drive of the lodge. Why's that you think?



Your great grandpa, your grand pappy,  pappy and you? Why not get your own place. Does the lodge move from mountain to mountain? What are you, a hippie?


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> Your great grandpa, your grand pappy,  pappy and you? Why not get your own place. Does the lodge move from mountain to mountain? What are you, a hippie?


Why don't you tell us again how you turned in Okemo tickets for tickets to another mountain. You have no credibility.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2015)

How about everyone take a break from the lovefest and get back on topic.


----------



## MMP (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Why don't you tell us again how you turned in Okemo tickets for tickets to another mountain. You have no credibility.



thats what you think i said. actually, i never bought an okemo ticket in bulk. my friend did. i did for other mountains (mrg and SB) and if unused return them. since i am not a high level, discount seeking, lodge belonging, bathroom sharing, laundromat using, chiseler-like you I may not be as well versed on penny pinching schemes as you. The reality is that i haven't belonged to the ski club in a half a dozen years because its a hassle and not worth the savings. I do miss out on skiing with "guys" like you,  that troll threads of places that they dont ski, because they're worthless internet assholes, but I'll survive, if you want to talk about credibility. steamboat thinks i have no credibilty. oh no. kill yourself.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

MMP said:


> You do not have to use them on okemo tickets. *So you see, I did return them.*


Too funny.


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> That's the thing the membership is made up of mostly families. Currently 4 generations of my family are members. Quite a few other multi-generation families too. New families joining all the time. Never hear any of them talk about Magic. They do talk about other areas from Sugarbush to Stratton all within an hours drive of the lodge. Why's that you think?



This is such an entertaining read. Magic is to the Vermont crowd what Cannon is to the Granite State crowd.

Steamboat, you're taking a VERY small small sample size. Most New England skiers have at least a clue about Magic, those powder days are famous.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

sull1102 said:


> This is such an entertaining read. Magic is to the Vermont crowd what Cannon is to the Granite State crowd.
> 
> Steamboat, you're taking a VERY small small sample size. Most New England skiers have at least a clue about Magic, those powder days are famous.


Yep all 20,000 of them in a state that drew over 4,000,000 skier visits last year. By the way I've skied Magic many times, just not recently though.


----------



## MMP (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Too funny.



what's funny is how stupid you are. i never bought an okemo ticket. i never returned an okemo ticket, and i never bought another okemo ticket with the refund or whatever they give you because i never ever, not once bought an okemo ticket. what i was describing was my interpretation of the refund policy (thanks for taking time to cut and paste that for us.  nice formatting, GREAT TRY!), and again since you are so fucking stupid let me remind you that I used okemo as the example because they are the company that gave us the shitty service (with the vouchers bought by my friend, if you remember that part of the story.) Did I pay for a lift ticket that day at okemo? no. did I buy vouchers in bulk ever? no. did my wife buy lift tickets for hundreds for one day for my boys and me to ski when we stayed at Jackson Gore? yes. Did it suck? sure did. If you ski there, we will never have to meet. I like that.

go ahead and have the last word, you giant twat.


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Yep all 20,000 of them in a state that drew over 4,000,000 skier visits last year. By the way I've skied Magic many times, just not recently though.



The small sample size I was referring to was your little ski club.

Also, I never asked if you ski Magic, nor do I give two shits. Place sounds much, much, much better without you. Something tells me you're one of the asshats that thinks I'm a bum because I snowboard anyways.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

sull1102 said:


> The small sample size I was referring to was your little ski club.
> 
> Also, I never asked if you ski Magic, nor do I give two shits. Place sounds much, much, much better without you. Something tells me you're one of the asshats that thinks I'm a bum because I snowboard anyways.


Sample size I used was the over 4,000,000 people who skied VT. last year (4,670,903 to be exact) of which only 20,000 skied Magic. Reason I mentioned I've skied Magic is your reference to people at least having a clue about Magic which I do. If I went to Magic again I bet you wouldn't even know I was there. Doesn't matter to me how you chose to slide down a mountain.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Doesn't matter to me how you chose to slide down a mountain.



Glad to see you've come around on this one considering some of the things you've said about boarders in the past.


----------



## marcski (Sep 5, 2015)

If you don't feed the trolls, they will die or at least shut up.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> So I guess you're Magics pit bull.




Lolnope.  Just saw some clueless asshole running his mouth and spreading misinformation and didn't want your hate juice leaving a stain.  I guess the real question is who at Magic pissed in your Cheerios? Like what's your beef man???  For a place you clearly don't go you sure do have an axe to grind against it. It's pretty pathetic actually.  What kind of sad sonofabitch just sits there hammering away at a place he has never been using all kinds of ridiculous measures like "people I know don't talk about it" as if anybody cared?  


I mean really-  get a life.  Your true colors are all shades of pink.  I see right through you.  I set your misinformation straight on several occasions and all you can do is try to insult me.  You're a joke and you should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Sample size I used was the over 4,000,000 people who skied VT. last year (4,670,903 to be exact) of which only 20,000 skied Magic.



Did you talk to all 4,670,903 people? The answer is no, you did not. So like I said, your sample size is a joke.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

sull1102 said:


> Did you talk to all 4,670,903 people? The answer is no, you did not. So like I said, your sample size is a joke.


Well considering our club has 175 members & I'm the only one talking about Magic puts us well above the 20,000 out of 4,670,000. That's 1 out of 1,167


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lolnope.  Just saw some clueless asshole running his mouth and spreading misinformation and didn't want your hate juice leaving a stain.  I guess the real question is who at Magic pissed in your Cheerios? Like what's your beef man???  For a place you clearly don't go you sure do have an axe to grind against it. It's pretty pathetic actually.  What kind of sad sonofabitch just sits there hammering away at a place he has never been using all kinds of ridiculous measures like "people I know don't talk about it" as if anybody cared?
> 
> 
> I mean really-  get a life.  Your true colors are all shades of pink.  I see right through you.  I set your misinformation straight on several occasions and all you can do is try to insult me.  You're a joke and you should be ashamed of yourself.


Woof, woof
 Who let the dogs out?

Considering Magics location & it's supposedly superior terrain they're not doing to well are they?


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Well considering our club has 175 members & I'm the only one talking about Magic puts us well above the 20,000 out of 4,670,000. That's 1 out of 1,167



So you've talked to each and every person about Magic? That's a lot of talking man! At least you're showing the word! The 174 people looking to get away from you should know they can find peace at Magic.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Glad to see you've come around on this one considering some of the things you've said about boarders in the past.


Glad to see you're still doing such a great moderating job. I call a guy a douche for trying to beat the system & get a time out while others can call me all sorts of names & nothing. Keep up the good work.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

sull1102 said:


> So you've talked to each and every person about Magic? That's a lot of talking man! At least you're showing the word! The 174 people looking to get away from you should know they can find peace at Magic.


Don't have to talk to them. The numbers prove it out.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Glad to see you've come around on this one considering some of the things you've said about boarders in the past.


What did I say? Kinda like I've used the N word over on K Zone meanwhile your the only one who's used it numerous times.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2015)

The crap you bring on yourself is well deserved.  The crap you give to others is typically unprovoked.  There's a difference.

You start showing respect to others in this forum and maybe things change.  

Try it for once 

Thanks


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> The crap you bring on yourself is well deserved.  The crap you give to others is typically unprovoked.  There's a difference.
> 
> You start showing respect to others in this forum and maybe things change.
> 
> ...


I guess the truth hurts sometimes.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> I guess the truth hurts sometimes.



You would know how it feels more than anyone.  You bring a lot of "truth" on yourself.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> You would know how it feels more than anyone.  You bring a lot of "truth" on yourself.


Truth is good. If people can't handle it's not my fault.

Besides I've said numerous times in this thread I hope Magic succeeds.

Their track record isn't that good though.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 6, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Woof, woof
> Who let the dogs out?
> 
> Considering Magics location & it's supposedly superior terrain they're not doing to well are they?




Bahahahaha you're such a smug little prick.

Your constant inaccuracies and axe grinding have nothing to do with magic's success and that's what I was commenting on- you being a perpetually massive douchebag for no apparent reason.  What gives??  If you supposedly want Magic to succeed why are you such a dick about the place all the time??


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 6, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Don't have to talk to them. The numbers prove it out.



LMFAO!!! HAHAHAHA DUDE YOU'RE SUCH A PRICK! You literally just admitted you haven't talked to people about what you claim to have talked about. You are a complete moron. You haven't even talked to people about it, but you're absolutely sure you're right. 

Hopefully the mods just eliminate you completely and this forum can go back to what we all want to talk about.


----------



## MMP (Sep 6, 2015)

sull1102 said:


> this forum can go back to what we all want to talk about.


----------



## MMP (Sep 6, 2015)




----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 6, 2015)

It's nice to see some other folks calling steamy out for the person he is.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 7, 2015)

Anything new on the closing. I heard the new to be owners have the outside crew working on doing what's needed to get the mountain open.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 7, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> It's nice to see some other folks calling steamy out for the person he is.


Nice to see you pig pile too.

Go ahead its all OK with the moderator DHS.

You can call me anything you want. Anything goes.

It's all my fault anyway.

Magic drew quite a bit less than 1% of VT. skier visits last season.

This despite having a great location in southern central VT.

This is fact.

Have a great season ladies.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 7, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> Anything new on the closing. I heard the new to be owners have the outside crew working on doing what's needed to get the mountain open.


You mean the attack dog & his crew?

Guy signed up just to attack me

Admitted it himself but that's OK, at least according to one mod.

This is your crew?

Pretty sad.

I've educated more people on this site to deals ,especially club deals, VT. passes & such & how they work than just about anyone else on this site but I'm the prick.

I'm fine with that.

Just won't do it anymore.

Mums the word


----------



## Do Work (Sep 8, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You mean the attack dog & his crew?
> 
> Guy signed up just to attack me
> 
> ...




Oh the melodrama hahaha...  I didn't sign up to "attack you" I signed up to correct your wildly incorrect assertions and answer questions people have been asking in general.  Lots of the things you were saying were incredibly inaccurate and not fair at all.  Get over yourself already.  Nobody cares what you think and not one person here needs or wants your approval.  Not.  One.  Person.  


Have fun grinding that axe though.  We all know you can't stay away.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 8, 2015)

Steamboat,

I don't recall ever having a beef with you, so don't take this as one.

If what you say is true, why on earth would you hang around here?  You aren't going to change things, so at some point it becomes time to take so responsibility for yourself.  That time has come.  If you voluntarily stick around a place that you know treats you poorly, don't complain when you are treated poorly.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 8, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You mean the attack dog & his crew?
> 
> Guy signed up just to attack me
> 
> ...




I think you get your jollies agitating people by making statements that you know will annoy them whether based on fact or not. :argue:


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 8, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> I think you get your jollies agitating people by making statements that you know will annoy them whether based on fact or not. :argue:



I don't think he knows he is doing it just seems like the stereotypical caricature of a New Yorker. He has played the part for so long he doesn't realize it.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 8, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You mean the attack dog & his crew?
> 
> Guy signed up just to attack me
> 
> ...



Steamboat, 

You can't cry victim out of one side of your mouth while needling your attackers out the other side.  It doesn't work like that, especially when you have a history of being one of the biggest trolls on this website.

  Literally at the exact same time as you getting caught up in this Magic pissing match, you were trolling and creating drama in the Saddleback thread.  You've done it in Sugarbush threads, Burke threads, basically almost anywhere but Killington and Stowe threads. The fact that you have shared knowledge on ski club deals doesn't take away from this longtime pattern of trolling behavior.  This doesn't even take into account the numerous members of this forum you made personal attacks against.  

Your best course of action instead of perpetually trying to get the last word in this thread is to drop it and move on.  Take the high road.  

You want future consideration from the moderating staff when you feel you've been wronged?  I'd suggest making sure your nose is clean as whistle for a long time first.  I hope you consider turning that leaf over.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 8, 2015)

And as for the Magic faithful, I'd remind you that personal attacks aren't allowed on AZ.

Please take the high road yourselves and keep the conversation focused on Magic itself and not a constant flame war against those who disagree with your positions.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 8, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Please take the high road yourselves and keep the conversation focused on Magic itself





Gladly!  That's what I'm here for :beer:


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you.


----------



## gmcunni (Sep 8, 2015)

from a FB posting indicating work is being done to have Black ready for the season


----------



## SIKSKIER (Sep 8, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt...29515067037/10152959875717038/?type=1&theater


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 8, 2015)

MMP said:


> View attachment 17444



So I take it that MMP was at a Phish Concert this weekend?


----------



## slatham (Sep 8, 2015)

Good to see the "void" between owners hasn't stopped work, especially on Black. These transactions always take longer than expected!


----------



## roark (Sep 8, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> So I take it that MMP was at a Phish Concert this weekend?


silly hippies and their flags


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 8, 2015)

If MMP is a hippie, he is one angry hippie.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 8, 2015)

slatham said:


> Good to see the "void" between owners hasn't stopped work, especially on Black. These transactions always take longer than expected!




I'm very happy.  It warms the heart to see both parties just have Magic's well being at the forefront of their priorities.  Literally every person involved has been so only because they love the place and the continuation of work and plans is testament to that for sure.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 8, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> If MMP is a hippie, he is one angry hippie.




Only on the internet haha :beer:


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 8, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> from a FB posting indicating work is being done to have Black ready for the season



To be brutally honest, I would think twice about riding that lift personally.  Hopefully the new owners will just outright replace it.


----------



## shpride (Sep 8, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> from a FB posting indicating work is being done to have Black ready for the season



At first glance I had thought this was a picture of one of the chairs falling off the wire


----------



## Not Sure (Sep 8, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> To be brutally honest, I would think twice about riding that lift personally.  Hopefully the new owners will just outright replace it.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 8, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


>



Yeah, really.  :lol:

Hopefully the Faithful can explain what has been done to keep it going and what future plans lie ahead.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 8, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> To be brutally honest, I would think twice about riding that lift personally.  Hopefully the new owners will just outright replace it.




I hear you.  Last I checked there was actually a plan to phase it out and I know the new guys want it replaced but I don't know what their timeline looks like.  It still works fine and wouldn't be given the to ahead if it wasnt 100% safe but it's just a frankenlift and it's getting harder and harder to source parts.  I'd personally love to see it replaced by a nice quiet fixed grip double.  I just don't like it because it's a raised motor chair with no lift shack so it's super loud whereas the red is a sub motor with a shack so it runs almost completely silent.  Also the chair pads.  I like chair pads haha


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Sep 9, 2015)

This version of Black is slightly safer :grin:


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 9, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I'd personally love to see it replaced by a nice quiet fixed grip double.



I'd rather see a triple - or even a quad.  IMO, these are more "family friendly", and I think Magic would benefit.  They could always space the chairs further to limit capacity if that were an issue.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 9, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> To be brutally honest, I would think twice about riding that lift personally.  Hopefully the new owners will just outright replace it.



I think everyone would like to see the lift replaced. I, myself, find it very uncomfortable to ride. In the meantime, a lot of work has been done to keep it going, and the lift inspectors, who are very thorough, check it out every year to make sure it's safe. It was shut done last year because the chairs would not swing easily. That is one of the things currently being worked on and is very time consuming because the "bearings" in each chair have to be replaced.


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 9, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> I'd rather see a triple - or even a quad.  IMO, these are more "family friendly", and I think Magic would benefit.  They could always space the chairs further to limit capacity if that were an issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Only family friendly if you have 3 (or 5 or 6). Doesn't help if you have 4 - doubles are better then.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 9, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> I'd rather see a triple - or even a quad.  IMO, these are more "family friendly", and I think Magic would benefit.  They could always space the chairs further to limit capacity if that were an issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app




Yeah I'm speaking mostly in terms of affordability.  Triples and quads get much more expensive.  Doubles are easy to come by and relatively inexpensive both in initial purchase terms and also log term cost.  If it was dream time I'd say sure, go for it but in real terms if we had the red, the black and the green all as fixed-grip doubles we'd be totally fine IMO.  Few moving parts, they run low so they don't go on wind hold and are easily run by relatively few staff.


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 9, 2015)

Capacity wise I think a double would be fine but I think you would have a hard time finding a decent used double with that line length and rise. On the other hand, there are plenty of fixed grip quads and triples out there in decent shape that were replaced with high speed quads. For example, the Barnstormer that just came out of Haystack, had the length and with an upgraded motor could handle the rise. Lift was in beautiful shape.

If you go new, the incremental cost going from double to triple to quad is not as high as you would think. In some cases it costs more to make doubles because they are out of production save special orders.


----------



## Dickc (Sep 9, 2015)

After much reading of this thread, and having NEVER been to Magic, I might find some time on a Thursday to venture up there in January or February and see what all the noise is about.  Old chairlifts do not bother me as long as they have had their proper inspection and are not located at Sugarloaf......


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 9, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Only family friendly if you have 3 (or 5 or 6). Doesn't help if you have 4 - doubles are better then.



"Better"?  No.  Serviceable, yes.  

My guess is that the more casual skiers out there (i.e. people who do not spend time on ski forums during the summer!) would find these higher capacity chairs more appealing.  I know that when all four in our family go skiing, we prefer to ride up together if we can.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 9, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Yeah I'm speaking mostly in terms of affordability.  Triples and quads get much more expensive.  Doubles are easy to come by and relatively inexpensive both in initial purchase terms and also log term cost.  If it was dream time I'd say sure, go for it but in real terms if we had the red, the black and the green all as fixed-grip doubles we'd be totally fine IMO.  Few moving parts, they run low so they don't go on wind hold and are easily run by relatively few staff.



Agree.  Given the choice between red and a higher capacity black chair, OR a red, black AND green - albeit all doubles, I would opt for that.  I know I've said it before, but I believe that green would help to draw - and more importantly, keep - families at Magic


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Domeskier (Sep 9, 2015)

I prefer yellow chairs to green ones.  Easier to spot through the trees.


----------



## slatham (Sep 9, 2015)

> Capacity wise I think a double would be fine but I think you would have a hard time finding a decent used double with that line length and rise. On the other hand, there are plenty of fixed grip quads and triples out there in decent shape that were replaced with high speed quads. For example, the Barnstormer that just came out of Haystack, had the length and with an upgraded motor could handle the rise. Lift was in beautiful shape.
> 
> If you go new, the incremental cost going from double to triple to quad is not as high as you would think. In some cases it costs more to make doubles because they are out of production save special orders.



I was thinking the same thing. I would also think install cost are same/close whether double/triple/quad. Anyone have any hard data or real experience on this - and the above?

In the end it may simply come down to what lifts are available when Magic decides to take the plunge.


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 9, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> "Better"?  No.  Serviceable, yes.
> 
> My guess is that the more casual skiers out there (i.e. people who do not spend time on ski forums during the summer!) would find these higher capacity chairs more appealing.  I know that when all four in our family go skiing, we prefer to ride up together if we can.
> 
> ...



I was thinking of a triple where the whole family couldn't fit. I have 5 so a triple is a lot better than a double and about the same as a quad.


----------



## makimono (Sep 9, 2015)

I'm just happy to hear that Black might be Back...I wouldn't mind if they switched to loading it double though, it's kind of like a clown car fitting 3 big dudes on it. And someone my height has their skis hanging a foot below the foot rest and the safety bar literally presses down on my massive skiers quads. :razz:

From Justin Ordway's Facebook:


----------



## Do Work (Sep 9, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Agree.  Given the choice between red and a higher capacity black chair, OR a red, black AND green - albeit all doubles, I would opt for that.  I know I've said it before, but I believe that green would help to draw - and more importantly, keep - families at Magic
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app




IMO the real beauty of the green chair is not only accessibility to exclusively lower mountain runs in terms of families, but also for races and most importantly being able to open the hill earlier and at a lower startup cost.  They could open the whole lower mountain much faster and easier than blowing all of upper carpet and then trick to wand to showoff.  Getting those visitor dollars flowing much sooner would have a huge impact on the bottom line too.  Lower mountain around thanksgiving?  Yes please!!  :beer:


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 9, 2015)

Do Work said:


> IMO the real beauty of the green chair is not only accessibility to exclusively lower mountain runs in terms of families, but also for races and most importantly being able to open the hill earlier and at a lower startup cost.  They could open the whole lower mountain much faster and easier than blowing all of upper carpet and then trick to wand to showoff.  Getting those visitor dollars flowing much sooner would have a huge impact on the bottom line too.  Lower mountain around thanksgiving?  Yes please!!  :beer:



Agree.  That side of the mountain would be a decent early season offering for families.  

As an aside, if the green chair would limit the number of rude little spandex monkeys riding red, than my support is stronger than ever!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 9, 2015)

slatham said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I would also think install cost are same/close whether double/triple/quad. Anyone have any hard data or real experience on this


Cost of Mittersill double was approx. $3 mil. Cost of new Valley House quad at Sugarbush about the same.


----------



## MMP (Sep 9, 2015)

imagine how much weed you would save if there was a single chair. not me of course, but you know, if that was your thing.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 9, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Cost of Mittersill double was approx. $3 mil. Cost of new Valley House quad at Sugarbush about the same.



I think that they were discussing buying used.  It's too bad that they did not jump on the former Ascutney lifts.  Pats Peak snatched the fixed grip lifts from Ascutney and I believe are planning on using them to replace their aging lifts.  Those CTEC Lifts are pretty good.  Maybe Magic can buy Burke's Willoughby Quad or something.


----------



## rocks860 (Sep 9, 2015)

Maybe sugarbush could sell them the north ridge quad. It probably runs more often that the black chair


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 9, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Cost of Mittersill double was approx. $3 mil. Cost of new Valley House quad at Sugarbush about the same.





thetrailboss said:


> I think that they were discussing buying used.  It's too bad that they did not jump on the former Ascutney lifts.  Pats Peak snatched the fixed grip lifts from Ascutney and I believe are planning on using them to replace their aging lifts.  Those CTEC Lifts are pretty good.  Maybe Magic can buy Burke's Willoughby Quad or something.


So then I'd say 1/2 that since West Mt. claims it cost $1.5 mil. to buy & install the lift they bought from Heritage. Not sure if that's for only the one lift or the two they plan to eventually replace.


----------



## marcski (Sep 9, 2015)

slatham said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I would also think install cost are same/close whether double/triple/quad. Anyone have any hard data or real experience on this - and the above?
> 
> In the end it may simply come down to what lifts are available when Magic decides to take the plunge.



I hope not! That would be poor management. After this long...the mountain's biggest infrastructure project should come down to well more than just what's available at thr moment!! It should be an ongoing process over the course of a few years. Mgt needs to get the word out in the industry and locate lifts before they are even removed....well before the lift ever appears on the Boneyard site. That is the way, a small ski area survives and hopefully thrives.


----------



## Magic (Sep 9, 2015)

Instead of a 3rd lift like green, how about a magic carpet so people don't get their arms ripped off with a tow rope? Don't we want to enhance the family/beginner/new skier experience for future revenue?


----------



## slatham (Sep 9, 2015)

Marcski, I agreed, I just used poor wording. What I mean is once they have the funds to buy a lift it will come down to what type of high quality used lift is available. In otherwords, I doubt they wait for a Quad to come along if they find a good triple. Or that they decide they need a triple, only a triple, and wait years for a good one to be available. They need to be opportunistic based on ( high quality lift) availability. IMHO.

Magic, I have heard talk over the years of a magic carpet being a high priority. I mean, it's already named after the Mountian! They need one! But whether the new owners can (and want to) buy one this fall is a good question. But it would change the family with young kids dynamic considerably.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 9, 2015)

Magic said:


> Instead of a 3rd lift like green, how about a magic carpet so people don't get their arms ripped off with a tow rope? Don't we want to enhance the family/beginner/new skier experience for future revenue?




I'd LOVE to see a T-Bar in the old Rabbit Run learning area.  It really is perfect over there.  The pitch is wonderful for learning and it's completely secluded from the people flying down Hocus Pocus.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 9, 2015)

Fun fact, magic has purchased about 5 lifts over the last decade. All in various states of operation. None installed. Priority one after getting black running should be a beginners chair in the old area, provided they sort out the rights over there. Then replace back and only then the blue chair. The blue chair would be nice for families, I rode it a lot as a kid, but it is pretty low priority. Plus, I think there is little point opening with just that. Making snow at the base is what kills them early season as one bad day can get rid of it all. The stuff up high is much easier to make and keep early season. Plus they really need to blow up there anyway to keep it from getting skied off.


----------



## marcski (Sep 9, 2015)

Magic should really look to how Plattekill has been and continues to be run.  They are very analogous in their terrain, appeal, vibe and market share.


----------



## roark (Sep 9, 2015)

MMP said:


> imagine how much weed you would save if there was a single chair. not me of course, but you know, if that was your thing.


hippie confirmed.


----------



## MMP (Sep 9, 2015)

roark said:


> hippie confirmed.



What were we talking about? 



Do Work said:


> I'd LOVE to see a T-Bar in the old Rabbit Run learning area.  It really is perfect over there.  The pitch is wonderful for learning and it's completely secluded from the people flying down Hocus Pocus.



A covered magic carpet too.   Did you hear about the time Rusty Groomer smashed into that elderly telemark skier in the beginner area. Killed him I think.


----------



## MMP (Sep 9, 2015)

Magic should magic should magic should.  Ahahahahahaha.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 9, 2015)

Maybe one or more of Smuggs lifts will become available.


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 10, 2015)

marcski said:


> Magic should really look to how Plattekill has been and continues to be run.  They are very analogous in their terrain, appeal, vibe and market share.



I agree and if I enough money I buy pass this year maybe it come s with tickets to magic and others to be annoced soon .just pick me if I stuck please in hopefully Nissan 2007 low low clearance car on rte 28 in snow storm. See you their in few months. Maybe he has told magic some lazz. Business ski school for these fantastic model for running places in black years in a row and over due.


----------



## MMP (Sep 10, 2015)

Wel said


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> IMO the real beauty of the green chair is not only accessibility to exclusively lower mountain runs in terms of families, but also for races and most importantly being able to open the hill earlier and at a lower startup cost.  They could open the whole lower mountain much faster and easier than blowing all of upper carpet and then trick to wand to showoff.  Getting those visitor dollars flowing much sooner would have a huge impact on the bottom line too.  Lower mountain around thanksgiving?  Yes please!!  :beer:



Almost the same thought process at Whaleback to the T which is why the plan is to restore the West Side. It was a secluded beginner/intermediate area served by a Poma, a step up from the carpet/tow to the chair. Sold the lift and never replaced it.

Getting a lift back will not only provide an awesome learning area but the ability to open earlier (early December vs late) on 5 acres of snow vs 25 off the summit. There would be early season terrain for training as well.


----------



## makimono (Sep 10, 2015)

The Green Chair is still complete and could potentially be finished? I thought I read somewhere that there were issues with the tower installation but maybe that was internet BS.

From chairlift.org and newenglandskihistory.com the Green Chair (Phoenix Lift) is a Borvig fixed double manufactured in 1982 at Stratton (Betwixt Chair) and was removed in 1995. Originally it was 3235' length and 649' vertical. Installation was started at Magic in 2003 but not completed (most towers plus the summit bullwheel and partial base terminal).


----------



## makimono (Sep 10, 2015)

A lift like Stowe's Easy Street Dopplemayr Double for $75k would like nice on the beginner slope  :dunce:


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 10, 2015)

makimono said:


> The Green Chair is still complete and could potentially be finished? I thought I read somewhere that there were issues with the tower installation but maybe that was internet BS.
> 
> From chairlift.org and newenglandskihistory.com the Green Chair (Phoenix Lift) is a Borvig fixed double manufactured in 1982 at Stratton (Betwixt Chair) and was removed in 1995. Originally it was 3235' length and 649' vertical. Installation was started at Magic in 2003 but not completed (most towers plus the summit bullwheel and partial base terminal).



I was wondering that as well.  From what I can see on Chairlift.org and other sites, some of those towers don't look to be completely "true" or not set right.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 10, 2015)

makimono said:


> A lift like Stowe's Easy Street Dopplemayr Double for $75k would like nice on the beginner slope  :dunce:



Reminds me of the original chair over there.


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 10, 2015)

I wonder what Berkshire East did with magic's original Green chair?


----------



## WoodCore (Sep 10, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> I wonder what Berkshire East did with magic's original Green chair?




It's still sitting in the parking lot.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 10, 2015)

makimono said:


> A lift like Stowe's Easy Street Dopplemayr Double for $75k would like nice on the beginner slope  :dunce:




I'd love a chair over there but there are a bunch of ziplines going across the run...  I'm guessing at the very least there would be licensing and/or lease issues with running an actual chair over there.  That's why I was thinking T-Bar.  It can make corners, stays down low below the ziplines and would be a very low cost alternative.  


*not an expert opinion


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 10, 2015)

I think we are confusing green versus blue. The original blue/Phoenix lift is up and running at BE. I have ridden it. Not sure about the original green/beginner area lift.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 10, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I'd love a chair over there but there are a bunch of ziplines going across the run...  I'm guessing at the very least there would have be licensing and/or lease issues with running an actual chair over there.  That's why I was thinking T-Bar.  It can make corners, stays down low below the ziplines and would be a very low cost alternative.
> 
> 
> *not an expert opinion



Good point, but I think t bars and rope toes are the worst possible things for beginners. Except if you are a warren miller bloopers scene.


----------



## marcski (Sep 10, 2015)

Carpet lifts are just now starting to come up on the used market. Hence, Platty's new carpet lift in the learning center for this season.


----------



## WoodCore (Sep 10, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> I think we are confusing green versus blue. The original blue/Phoenix lift is up and running at BE. I have ridden it. Not sure about the original green/beginner area lift.




Not running anymore, it was replaced with a Skytrac quad last summer.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 10, 2015)

Did not know that. Have not been there in a while. Good info.


----------



## slatham (Sep 10, 2015)

Would love to see the Stowe double get installed in the old beginner area. Assuming in good working order, $75k sounds like a good deal. Wonder what install costs would be?

Re: Green/Phoenix, previous ownership directly told me it would take $250k to complete. I do not know if that was a back of the envelope number or a lift techs well researched quote. Nor do I know how much it might have changed since then.

I am actually a fan of completing Green. If the $250k is correct, its a fraction of the cost of replacing Black. And with Green you get:
1) Beginner/Intermediate/family oriented lift
2) Lift line pressure relief
3) Race team usage
4) Full marketing benefit of having a "new" lift, plus an increase in the number of lifts at Magic
5) Easier/lower cost to open in early season (I would also argue it gets West Side - Wiz/Tali - open sooner since beginner/intermediate terrain already available)
6) Elimination of an eyesore!

IMHO


----------



## Do Work (Sep 10, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Good point, but I think t bars and rope toes are the worst possible things for beginners. Except if you are a warren miller bloopers scene.





Meh.  They'll learn quick.  For what it would cost to buy & install a legit chair in Rabbit Run, the green/phoenix could be up and running AND we could have a T bar or carpet up Rabbit Run.  It just doesn't make sense to me to invest that kind of cash when we have so much to do elsewhere and we could make a massive improvement with minimal investment in the form of a surface lift.  Also, it's not like they're impossible!  I'd be willing to bet most of us learned on one.  Tossing chairlifts around like mardi gras beads just seems like an overreach to me at this stage.  There's a lot to do and money isn't unlimited, that's for sure.  


*not an expert opinion


----------



## makimono (Sep 10, 2015)

Yeah I'm sure the purchase cost of a used lift is barely a fraction of the total installation cost. I was just mid-summer E-dreaming 

But yeah T-bars are awesome. They build confidence and character and balance. When I was a beginner I was always more intimidated by chair lifts...and Poma's too! My dad used to carry me under his arm like a football as he rode the Poma up at Mt Tom, VT. And my sister fell off the Poma and turned around just in time to get whacked in the face by the next empty Poma, broke her nose at age 13 LOL. So no Butt Discs.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 10, 2015)

I guess I am thinking of really young kids. Also, structurally, you had to pass under the old beginner chair to exit the area. I am sure they could work something out with a t bar though. That said, provided they could use the old footings (except prob the terminal), I bet they could buy and install a beginner chair for far less than finishing Phoenix. Limited number of towers, easy terrain. They put up the Phoenix towers with a shovel!  I bet a new green would be far easier! That and I am not convinced Phoenix could even work at this point. I bet so many parts are lost/in poor condition that it may be cheaper and easier to start over. 

Do work, to quote you, I am no expert. Just someone who has been around the montain nearly 30 years and sled skied it when closed. It's fun to speculate about getting the place back together and a lot easier and cheaper than doing it myself. If I could, I would. 

I am a firm believer that families keep mountains open, not powder hounds. Name one mountain that survived by catering to a non-family crowd. Maybe mad river, but that is the only real example. Not to say magic is not a family mountain, but the powder hounds who show up a few days a year aren't goI got to keep the mountain running. Sure they help, especially with the numbers magic currently turns, but I think a true beginner area is crucial to luring and keeping new families and making magic sustainable.


----------



## slatham (Sep 10, 2015)

FB update that they are also working on Red! Too much for me to handle - working on both lifts, simultaneously! Maybe they will in fact both run. But seriously, the new ownership isn't technically in place yet and there's all this activity. Great to see!


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 10, 2015)

http://www.chairlift.org/pics/ma/ma55.jpg


----------



## makimono (Sep 10, 2015)

Craig Kelly in the halfpipe?


----------



## MMP (Sep 10, 2015)

do any of these lift installations require the use of a bucket truck. See what I'm getting at here? huh? huh?


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 10, 2015)

I still remember when they leveled that half pipe and tried to construct a new one by the tubing.


----------



## MMP (Sep 10, 2015)

How about a t bar right up goniffs glade. Lap that shit!


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 10, 2015)

MMP said:


> do any of these lift installations require the use of a bucket truck. See what I'm getting at here? huh? huh?




No, but they do involve the use of a helicopter.   Helicopter flag installation would be way cooler to see than a bucket truck.


----------



## MMP (Sep 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> No, but they do involve the use of a helicopter.   Helicopter flag installation would be way cooler to see than a bucket truck.



I'll pay for the gosh darned (zoning!) flags if you can arrange that!  

I'm erect.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 10, 2015)

no helicopter connections


Uncle in Quechee is a hot air balloon pilot though......


----------



## moresnow (Sep 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> no helicopter connections
> 
> 
> Uncle in Quechee is a hot air balloon pilot though......



He's coming to fix the flags? I'd pay to see that.


----------



## BeachCoach (Sep 10, 2015)

Is there anyone that has old trail maps of Magic like in the 80's?


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 10, 2015)

BeachCoach said:


> Is there anyone that has old trail maps of Magic like in the 80's?



https://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/201


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 10, 2015)

moresnow said:


> He's coming to fix the flags? I'd pay to see that.



Ditto


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 10, 2015)

Wow just looking at the old maps...that would have been a great spot for the original Black Magic trail. That terrain is just dirty. It whooped my ass


----------



## WoodCore (Sep 11, 2015)

Magic does not have a good track record with helicopters!!!


----------



## Do Work (Sep 11, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Wow just looking at the old maps...that would have been a great spot for the original Black Magic trail. That terrain is just dirty. It whooped my ass





Yeah those C & D expansions in the early projection maps would be SO SICK.


----------



## slatham (Sep 11, 2015)

Do Work, on the 1960 map, isn't "C" Wizard and "D" Tali? Or am I missing some sarcasm (its early and I need more coffee).

My favorite is the 1997 map, which seems to be a more accurate, topo based map. I have printed this and put all the glades on it that I know of (its locked in a safe for anyone thinking of a heist!). I actually hate the current map - it was under represents Magic.

The '97 map also shows a "Future" trail called Black Magic that drops from upper Wizard into the top of Tali. That would add a "Magician" like trail but since its into Tali it would create one of the best combo runs in the North East, much less So VT.


----------



## MMP (Sep 11, 2015)

^hahaha.  Wizard to Tali??? IMPOSSIBLE. 

oh man.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 11, 2015)

slatham said:


> Do Work, on the 1960 map, isn't "C" Wizard and "D" Tali? Or am I missing some sarcasm (its early and I need more coffee).





No C & D are actually off the next peak to the west from where the black chair summits.  


Unfortunately that project is yet to materialize.


----------



## xwhaler (Sep 11, 2015)

Do Work said:


> No C & D are actually off the next peak to the west from where the black chair summits.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately that project is yet to materialize.


That area and other peak if you will has always looked intriguing when I've skied down Upper Wiz. Does Magic own that land? Wonder how much vertical that would add?
Would it require another lift to avoid lots of up hill hiking?


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 11, 2015)

So the green chair only shows up in the 2007 map and is gone in 2008. Did it actually ever run?


----------



## makimono (Sep 11, 2015)

It gets confusing with the colors because the Green chair is actually blue, the black chair used to be blue, the original green chair was on the beginners area, and red is just red.

So the Double chair that was partially installed in 2003 that runs up the Green Line trail (aka Phoenix Lift) never ran at Magic. It used to be the Betwixt Chair at Stratton.

But there was a Poma Triple that ran in that same location. Installed in 1987 and sold to B-East in the 90's. It was called the Mid-Mountain Triple.


----------



## marcski (Sep 11, 2015)

I want to know how Magic gained an additional 150' vertical over the years!  :beer::grin:


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 11, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> That area and other peak if you will has always looked intriguing when I've skied down Upper Wiz. Does Magic own that land? Wonder how much vertical that would add?
> Would it require another lift to avoid lots of up hill hiking?



It would add marginal vertical. I believe they do and lease it to the cell company for the tower. People do hike it and it is a pretty easy hike. Nothing compared to the hourglass at Stowe, which isn't exactly hard either. There was talk of a rope tow there a few years ago, but there were obviously bigger fish to fry.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 11, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> It would add marginal vertical. I believe they do and lease it to the cell company for the tower. People do hike it and it is a pretty easy hike. Nothing compared to the hourglass at Stowe, which isn't exactly hard either. There was talk of a rope tow there a few years ago, but there were obviously bigger fish to fry.





Lies.  That's a fkn brutal hike in decent snow and there isn't a damn thing there except a gnarly bushwack.  Seriously, don't tell people anything else unless you want them to come back to you really, really pissed off.  I've gone out there just for shits & giggles and neither were had.  Ok, maybe a few shits but that's about it.  Certainly no giggles.    


Magic owns that farther-west peak, but they also sold off a good portion of the land below it to loggers.  Maybe someday we will have enough time to figure out the property line and enough people to cut some trees out there but until then, PLEASE don't give people the idea there's something out there to ski.  There is not.  Sending people out there would be flat out dangerous and not at all fun for anyone.


----------



## slatham (Sep 11, 2015)

Yes, the area further west from Wizard looks extremely intriguing. To me that "mound" looks to be a bigger, longer version of the "mound" on the main mountain (Twilight/Gonif/Red/Black). In my arm-chair-ski-area-owner-fantasyland I would put a handle tow (like they have for beginner area - which if they bought a Magic carpet would be available) from the top of Black Lift up to the cell towers. From there would be a run-in trail, and a run-out trail at the bottom, but keep the area primarily glades/chutes. Maybe one trial that connects to Slide of Hans. The "Western Territory" so to speak.

Someday I'll have to grab someone to join me in a little back country recon trip.......


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 11, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lies.  That's a fkn brutal hike in decent snow and there isn't a damn thing there except a gnarly bushwack.  Seriously, don't tell people anything else unless you want them to come back to you really, really pissed off.  I've gone out there just for shits & giggles and neither were had.  Ok, maybe a few shits but that's about it.  Certainly no giggles.
> 
> 
> Magic owns that farther-west peak, but they also sold off a good portion of the land below it to loggers.  Maybe someday we will have enough time to figure out the property line and enough people to cut some trees out there but until then, PLEASE don't give people the idea there's something out there to ski.  There is not.  Sending people out there would be flat out dangerous and not at all fun for anyone.



What i said is true. Some people hike it. I never implied it was worthwhile or a good idea. Perhaps I should have been more detailed. Not going to say anymore on that. Also, it should be assumed that hiking an unbeaten path in snow sucks if you aren't properly equipped. I guess I falsely made the assumption that people who go hiking somewhere would know what they were doing. I guess the news stories every winter should have made me know better. 

Do work's point makes for a good PSA - if you don't know where you are going or what you are doing, don't d o it or go with someone who does (not implying at all that was your case). Maybe we should have a work day out there with the chainsaws


----------



## SIKSKIER (Sep 11, 2015)

marcski said:


> I want to know how Magic gained an additional 150' vertical over the years!  :beer::grin:


Beat me to it.I was actually looking at this a few weeks ago on GE and could only come up with 1550 ft.I see they showed 1550 on an old map and then 1600 on a later one,1650 and then...presto..1700.


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 11, 2015)

makimono said:


> It gets confusing with the colors because the Green chair is actually blue, the black chair used to be blue, the original green chair was on the beginners area, and red is just red.
> 
> So the Double chair that was partially installed in 2003 that runs up the Green Line trail (aka Phoenix Lift) never ran at Magic. It used to be the Betwixt Chair at Stratton.
> 
> But there was a Poma Triple that ran in that same location. Installed in 1987 and sold to B-East in the 90's. It was called the Mid-Mountain Triple.



Would like to see a trail map from late 80's early 90's that show the Poma triple you mention


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 11, 2015)

makimono said:


> It gets confusing with the colors because the Green chair is actually blue, the black chair used to be blue, the original green chair was on the beginners area, and red is just red.
> 
> So the Double chair that was partially installed in 2003 that runs up the Green Line trail (aka Phoenix Lift) never ran at Magic. It used to be the Betwixt Chair at Stratton.
> 
> But there was a Poma Triple that ran in that same location. Installed in 1987 and sold to B-East in the 90's. It was called the Mid-Mountain Triple.





Great explanation.

 The only thing you missed was the T-bar on Showoff.      

The  Mid-Mountain Triple was also called the lift to nowhere - all the others  chairs would be loaded and the line on the Mid_Mountain would be  minuscule.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 11, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Beat me to it.I was actually looking at this a few weeks ago on GE and could only come up with 1550 ft.I see they showed 1550 on an old map and then 1600 on a later one,1650 and then...presto..1700.



It's 1550'. Someone started measuring from the base of the access road which gives 1700'


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 11, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Would like to see a trail map from late 80's early 90's that show the Poma triple you mention



The Poma Triple was in the exact same spot as the Green/Phoenix. The Green/Phoenix uses the Poma's tower's reinforced foundations.


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## vonski (Sep 11, 2015)

Looking on Google earth. If you mark the top of Glebe Mtn it says 2943 as elevation, then the bottom of access road goes to 1250 which gives you 1693 elevation.  So close to 1700.  lol. The top of red is 2850 and the parking lot behind lodge is 1350 giving 1500.  I will give it 1500 since I will ski to the car at the end of a day.  But quite frankly, the 1500 is plenty with the type of terrain at least for me it is.  I enjoy the 12 minute ride on the red chair well needed rest for me!


----------



## Not Sure (Sep 11, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> It's 1550'. Someone started measuring from the base of the access road which gives 1700'



http://www.hillmap.com/m/ag1zfmhpbGxtYXAtaGRychULEghTYXZlZE1hcBiAgICQjKKpCww

This beats GE , click on paths and drop points to measure elv.

Never been to Magic but sounds like with good snow would be fun , all the years me and my old gang never stopped in S Vt.
kept going for the larger areas , Is the other area nearby afiliated with Magic?


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## Do Work (Sep 11, 2015)

vonski said:


> Looking on Google earth. If you mark the top of Glebe Mtn it says 2943 as elevation, then the bottom of access road goes to 1250 which gives you 1693 elevation.  So close to 1700.  lol. The top of red is 2850 and the parking lot behind lodge is 1350 giving 1500.  I will give it 1500 since I will ski to the car at the end of a day.  But quite frankly, the 1500 is plenty with the type of terrain at least for me it is.  I enjoy the 12 minute ride on the red chair well needed rest for me!




Yeah honestly I know it gets shit for not being huge but in all reality it skis much bigger than it should.  I don't know anybody who doesn't actually NEED that slow ride back up haha


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## Do Work (Sep 11, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> http://www.hillmap.com/m/ag1zfmhpbGxtYXAtaGRychULEghTYXZlZE1hcBiAgICQjKKpCww
> 
> This beats GE , click on paths and drop points to measure elv.
> 
> ...




Dude you're missing out!  If you are driving farther north for "bigger mountains" I'll be he first to say you get a lot of the same terrain at Magic but without about 5,000 of the people.  Also no nearby mountains are affiliated.  Sometimes I think they're on different planets altogether!


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 11, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Dude you're missing out!  If you are driving farther north for "bigger mountains" I'll be he first to say you get a lot of the same terrain at Magic but without about 5,000 of the people.  Also no nearby mountains are affiliated.  Sometimes I think they're on different planets altogether!



I think he may be asking about timberline or whatever it is called that you can ski over to off the top.


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## WoodCore (Sep 11, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> I think he may be asking about timberline or whatever it is called that you can ski over to off the top.



Timber Ridge.


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## Do Work (Sep 11, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> I think he may be asking about timberline or whatever it is called that you can ski over to off the top.




Aaaah ok.  Yeah Timber Ridge is kind of funny...  There are no lifts and nobody works there but the owner grooms a track along the outside of the place for snowmobiles and skinners.  Lots of sledneck a party there on any given day and having a water skiing tow rope is probably as good of a call as skins.  It's pretty flat over there but it's a nice change of pace, especially on a pow day.  

But no , they aren't affiliated.


----------



## Not Sure (Sep 11, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Dude you're missing out!  If you are driving farther north for "bigger mountains" I'll be he first to say you get a lot of the same terrain at Magic but without about 5,000 of the people.  Also no nearby mountains are affiliated.  Sometimes I think they're on different planets altogether!



It's about 5 hrs but that's not to bad , maybe this year . Hours operation ? Weekends and powder days ?


----------



## Scruffy (Sep 11, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> It's about 5 hrs but that's not to bad , maybe this year . Hours operation ? Weekends and powder days ?



Dude, if southern VT get's it, do the drive. Hit Magic on your way to MRG!


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## steamboat1 (Sep 12, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Never been to Magic, all the years me and my old gang never stopped
> kept going


Been like that for most since the 60's. Must be a reason?


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Been like that for most since the 60's. Must be a reason?



Brainwashed into believing that Northern VT is way better than So VT. While I agree Northern is more consistent but So  VT can get the goods and Magic's terrain is not like the rest of So VT.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 12, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Been like that for most since the 60's. Must be a reason?



When Magic was sold in the late 80s and combined with Timber Ridge, It was packed (Green Beginner, Black, Red, Poma Triple and 2 chairs on Timberside. They did a lot of advertising/Markrting that you don't see anymore.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 12, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Brainwashed into believing that Northern VT is way better than So VT. While I agree Northern is more consistent but So  VT can get the goods and Magic's terrain is not like the rest of So VT.





Some people really need to go someplace their water cooler peeps have heard of to feel like they actually did something cool.  

I love MRG, Smuggs and Jay but the drive and all the people burn me out.  I'd rather ski steep untracked trees at Magic for days after a storm personally.  To each his own though!  


Nice Jab Steamy.  Good to see you're still as butthurt as ever haha


----------



## doublediamond (Sep 12, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> The Poma Triple was in the exact same spot as the Green/Phoenix. The Green/Phoenix uses the Poma's tower's reinforced foundations.



Um, Whaaaaaat.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.

The Sun Corner Triple was completely ripped down and sold to Berkshire East while Magic was closed in the mid-90s.  The current half-built lift is the former Betwixt Double from Stratton which last ran in 1995.  It's been rusting away for 20 years without any maintenance. It is an old Borvig with the archaic hanging-sheave design.  The same design that failed on the Spillway lifts at Sugarloaf.  Very few remain these days.  SOURCE.  Multiple towers were put in incorrectly and are out of alignment.  This is from Rocket/Threecee himself, a very reliable source with this kind of information.  Hate his politics all we want, but he is invaluable with his informatin/data on the history of operating ski areas and lift movements over the years.  If it has the same footings, why are multiple towers out of alignment?!? The drive terminal was installed in 2006 and has been uncovered the 9 years since.  It will cost a lot more than $250k to finish it.  

I assume you're getting that $250k from the Magic financial documents? Everything that Jim has said during his tenure about snowmaking updates around the mountain or what was written in the shareholder information was pure utter bullshit designed to sell the shares.  At this point, I no longer believe anything he ever said about anything.  Every year was "oh look, we're fixing X, Y, and Z pipes and we're gonna make snow on them".  Then no snowmaking there and the next summer he was all "oh well sorry, we didn't get to finish fixing X, Y and Z.  Here look, we're fixing X, Y, and AA this summer. I promise we'll make snow there this year.  Please give us money."

Seriously, the only thing the half-built lift is useful for these days is scrap.  Take a plasma torch, fell the towers, drag them down off the hill, and sell the metal off for scrap.  It's a piece of junk.

Same thing with Black.  It's a 53-year-old lift built by a one-off company and later updated 30 years ago this fall on the cheap to increase capacity by a firm no longer in business.  It wasn't maintained for over 7 years.  The towers are undersized.  It hasn't passed inspection in how many years? Chairs were removed from the line.  When was the last time it ran at it's full capacity?  When was the last time it past inspection on it's first try? Year after year it's "we're fixing Black, it'll run" then when winter rolls around it's "ah sorry, inspector said XYZ needs fixing. We're working on it, and will get it to run." Then it fails again.  It too needs to go to scrap. Sell it, get the few thousand, and buy electric compressors or more efficient guns.  Anyone who think's it's worth it to piss more money at that rust bucket is delusional.  And I and nearly everyone else believes it when someone claims an inspector told them they don't think it will ever pass.

Are you the same Sorcerer who was banned over at Snowjournal?  The age of your handle is about right.  That's when Jim took over Magic.

You want to know the #1 way to get more people to ski at Magic? Tear down the half bult lift and the rusting away Black.  They are sores and they give the John Q. Public a bad/uneasy taste in their mouths.  Have a actual learning center with a magic carpet. And make snow and have 3 routes available.  Until then you won't get people to buy passes.  It takes money to make money.  Why has no operator ever invested in the ski area?  A couple million will be returned in a couple years.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 12, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Um, Whaaaaaat.
> 
> Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.
> 
> ...




I believe all of that with Green but the Black chair will work just fine until we can figure out what to do next.  It passed two seasons ago just fine and is well on it's way to doing it again.


----------



## doublediamond (Sep 12, 2015)

Do Work, are you affiliated with Magic somehow?  If so maybe you can shed light on Black.  Because to me as someone who has skied Magic just a couple times and an avid reader (but less-active of a poster) of various ski forums, it seems to me exactly as I stated.  What needs to be fixed? Will it run at full capacity? Will the towers be painted to prevent more rust from forming?


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 13, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Um, Whaaaaaat.
> 
> Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.
> 
> ...




*What I said is a fact.* When the triple was sold, the tower foundations remained - kind of hard to sell them. When it was decided to put another lift where the triple was, new concrete was put over the old foundations and new bolts? (or whatever you call them)  were drilled into them to hold the towers and the towers were installed on them.

I would do a lot of things, including putting a new lift somewhere else, before I wouldn't install a lift in that location.

As to the rest of your comments, I guess you were just venting. I don't know where they came from or  how they apply to what I said.

I am not the other Sorcerer and don't have the foggiest who that is.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Do Work, are you affiliated with Magic somehow?  If so maybe you can shed light on Black.  Because to me as someone who has skied Magic just a couple times and an avid reader (but less-active of a poster) of various ski forums, it seems to me exactly as I stated.  What needs to be fixed? Will it run at full capacity? Will the towers be painted to prevent more rust from forming?




*seems* to be exactly as you stated?  Lol

I am not employed by the mountain but I do all the organization and planning for all their volunteer tree maintenance ops.  Also I do all the welding on all their snowmaking and chairlift projects so I am in touch with the staff directly on a lot of projects.  Usually I just trade for my family's passes and lodging for the season because literally all I want is to be there and help them succeed.  The black chair was condemned last season on false assumptions.  Had those assumptions been true it would still be condemned but when I engineered and built the new adjustable lower bullwheel chair rub rail system we successfully demonstrated that the binding forces that the inspector was seeing were not what he thought they were from and the condemnation order was lifted.  All it needs now is grip bearing sleeves iirc and regular maintenance type things but everyone wants the Black replaced.  When that guy spoke to his friend who was a lift inspector, I can only guess that was during the false condemnation period- which makes sense but I mean come on guys.  Seriously.  You're so willing to accept negative news but the good news is so hard to get people to actually hear or believe and I have no idea why.  The Eicholz and Sullivan clans are in the past.  Please put your aggressive attitude there too.  We are all moving forward and working hard.  


So please, lose the passive aggressive tone, man.  I'll gladly do my best to answer any questions you may have but I don't get paid for this so lose the attitude.  I'm not Jim Sullivan and I'm not into anything but hard work and progress.  Internet keyboard jockeys are a dime a dozen and I could just as easily ignore you if you can't address me like a person instead of your dog.


----------



## slatham (Sep 13, 2015)

Yes, Black worked fine a few seasons ago and for a time was the only summit lift running! As I mentioned in my post, the $250k came from JLS but I have no idea if it was made up or not. Regardless they need a new analysis and quote to finish Green. But I am sure that's down the priority list after getting Black running and snowmaking fixed.


----------



## dlague (Sep 13, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> It's about 5 hrs but that's not to bad , maybe this year . Hours operation ? Weekends and powder days ?





Do Work said:


> *seems* to be exactly as you stated?  Lol
> 
> I am not employed by the mountain but I do all the organization and planning for all their volunteer tree maintenance ops.  Also I do all the welding on all their snowmaking and chairlift projects so I am in touch with the staff directly on a lot of projects.  Usually I just trade for my family's passes and lodging for the season because literally all I want is to be there and help them succeed.  The black chair was condemned last season on false assumptions.  Had those assumptions been true it would still be condemned but when I engineered and built the new adjustable lower bullwheel chair rub rail system we successfully demonstrated that the binding forces that the inspector was seeing were not what he thought they were from and the condemnation order was lifted.  All it needs now is grip bearing sleeves iirc and regular maintenance type things but everyone wants the Black replaced.  When that guy spoke to his friend who was a lift inspector, I can only guess that was during the false condemnation period- which makes sense but I mean come on guys.  Seriously.  You're so willing to accept negative news but the good news is so hard to get people to actually hear or believe and I have no idea why.  The Eicholz and Sullivan clans are in the past.  Please put your aggressive attitude there too.  We are all moving forward and working hard.
> 
> ...



That's cool!


----------



## dlague (Sep 13, 2015)

slatham said:


> Yes, Black worked fine a few seasons ago and for a time was the only summit lift running! As I mentioned in my post, the $250k came from JLS but I have no idea if it was made up or not. Regardless they need a new analysis and quote to finish Green. But I am sure that's down the priority list after getting Black running and snowmaking fixed.



We have skied there the past two years.  The first year only black was running.  Last year only red was running.  Would be nice to have both running.  Each time we have been there lift lines have been long.  That being said,  I understand why people might want to consider larger ski areas with more lift options since many are not into hanging out in lift lines.  Unfortunately,  Magic does have great terrain but falls short when only one lift is running.


----------



## MMP (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> *seems* to be exactly as you stated?  Lol
> 
> I am not employed by the mountain but I do all the organization and planning for all their volunteer tree maintenance ops.  Also I do all the welding on all their snowmaking and chairlift projects so I am in touch with the staff directly on a lot of projects.  Usually I just trade for my family's passes and lodging for the season because literally all I want is to be there and help them succeed.  The black chair was condemned last season on false assumptions.  Had those assumptions been true it would still be condemned but when I engineered and built the new adjustable lower bullwheel chair rub rail system we successfully demonstrated that the binding forces that the inspector was seeing were not what he thought they were from and the condemnation order was lifted.  All it needs now is grip bearing sleeves iirc and regular maintenance type things but everyone wants the Black replaced.  When that guy spoke to his friend who was a lift inspector, I can only guess that was during the false condemnation period- which makes sense but I mean come on guys.  Seriously.  You're so willing to accept negative news but the good news is so hard to get people to actually hear or believe and I have no idea why.  The Eicholz and Sullivan clans are in the past.  Please put your aggressive attitude there too.  We are all moving forward and working hard.
> 
> ...



He can treat you anyway he wants, abuse a dog? This guy ABUSES DOGS???!!??  Wtf???

There's some negativity you Nancies can grab hold of.


----------



## BodhiMax (Sep 13, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Um, Whaaaaaat.
> 
> Stop drinking the Kool Aid! Seriously. It's just lies.
> 
> ...


----------



## yeggous (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> doublediamond said:
> 
> 
> > Um, Whaaaaaat.
> ...


----------



## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

I just think it's hilarious how many people ski magic "once or twice when the snow is good" but think they know...  

I get the speculation but come on guys-  You want two brand new lifts and 100% snowmaking in like a month.  What part of incremental improvements don't you get and what dream world are you living in?  I mean if you knew Magic like you think you did you'd know just how funny that really is.  You just want to show up to a Strattonized Magic this thanksgiving and anything short of that is a complete and utter failure.  Riiiiiiiiight.  Let me know when you figure out how to make that happen there guys hahaha wow...  Just wow.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

Consider yourself lucky that Highway Star doesn't ski there.


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## jrmagic (Sep 13, 2015)

FOmmzzzhzhzhhzmxg


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## BodhiMax (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I just think it's hilarious how many people ski magic "once or twice when the snow is good" but think they know...
> 
> I get the speculation but come on guys-  You want two brand new lifts and 100% snowmaking in like a month.  What part of incremental improvements don't you get and what dream world are you living in?  I mean if you knew Magic like you think you did you'd know just how funny that really is.  You just want to show up to a Strattonized Magic this thanksgiving and anything short of that is a complete and utter failure.  Riiiiiiiiight.  Let me know when you figure out how to make that happen there guys hahaha wow...  Just wow.



DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic.  And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.  But, I never said anything short of that is a complete failure.  Incremental improvements are certainly better than nothing, but as someone who lives in the real world (and not a dream world), I worry whether incremental improvements will keep the mountain alive through a couple of warm winters in a row.  And also as someone who lives in the real world, it's becoming more and more clear to me that this new ownership group is not bringing significant new investments to the mountain.  Do you know why there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned?  If they would just do that, we could put all this speculation aside and all draw realistic conclusions as to whether anything is really changing for the better over there.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic.  And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.



Worst idea ever.  What do you want? Another Stratton?


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## Sorcerer (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic.  And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.  But, I never said anything short of that is a complete failure.  Incremental improvements are certainly better than nothing, but as someone who lives in the real world (and not a dream world), I worry whether incremental improvements will keep the mountain alive through a couple of warm winters in a row.  And also as someone who lives in the real world, it's becoming more and more clear to me that this new ownership group is not bringing significant new investments to the mountain.  Do you know why there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned?  If they would just do that, we could put all this speculation aside and all draw realistic conclusions as to whether anything is really changing for the better over there.




The reason (I believe based upon what I know about these legal type transactions-no one told me) there has been no announcement about  what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned is because a contract has not been signed yet although as I understand it it could be done in a week or two. Pray for it and snow.


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## marcski (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic.  And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.  But, I never said anything short of that is a complete failure.  Incremental improvements are certainly better than nothing, but as someone who lives in the real world (and not a dream world), I worry whether incremental improvements will keep the mountain alive through a couple of warm winters in a row.  And also as someone who lives in the real world, it's becoming more and more clear to me that this new ownership group is not bringing significant new investments to the mountain.  Do you know why there has been no announcement about what kind of money they will be investing or what kind of upgrades they have planned?  If they would just do that, we could put all this speculation aside and all draw realistic conclusions as to whether anything is really changing for the better over there.



I think you should stay at Flatton or Slokemo.  You don't seem to be Magic's intended market.  This idea of yours would ruin Magic's appeal for most who ski there.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic.  And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.




Aaaaaaaaahahahahahaha oh man.  Talk about missing the point.  That would completely ruin the place.  Instantly.  One high speed lift to the top (the intrawest stamp of legitimacy) or combo-pass the place with Stratton or Okemo and it would be overrun by flailing Joey gapers overnight.  Soul = torched in seconds.  

I think the goal of any good Magic ownership team would be to avoid over-Strattonization at all costs.  I'm totally fine with incremental improvements.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  If you truly need all that shit to go somewhere though, you will never be happy at Magic and I personally am fine with that.  Not that I don't want you to come and enjoy the place, but I certainly don't want them to change their DNA to cater to powder puff resort pussy-types that demand steamrolled slopes and high speed lifts either.  

I honestly don't care if they ever openly state their mission.  Just the fact that things are happening and shit is getting fixed is enough for me.  I'm not an instant gratification person and they don't owe me- or you- a fuckin thing.  They've gotten better every year and people who can't understand how this ACTUALLY works will understand that instead of demanding that Magic be turned around overnight by some massive soulless conglomerate.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

marcski said:


> This idea of yours would ruin Magic's appeal for most who ski there.


You mean all those skiers that have kept Magic unprofitable (breakeven at best) & on the verge of bankruptcy every year. If you ask me that hasn't worked. Doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results is not sound policy.


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## marcski (Sep 13, 2015)

The faithful are better than NELSAP.  What do you care anyway?  You're just antagonistic and shoud stick to your frat house at KMart.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You mean all those skiers that have kept Magic unprofitable (breakeven at best) & on the verge of bankruptcy every year. If you ask me that hasn't worked. Doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results is not sound policy.




Yeah fuck those people. (Lol)

It's not their fault magic didn't make a ton of dough.  They have, however, put up with Magic through those tough early years and many have worked hard to help keep it open.  I'd be more inclined to tell the johnny-come-lately snooty bitches that demand the world for the price of a day ticket to fuck off.


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## BodhiMax (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Worst idea ever.  What do you want? Another Stratton?



Given the choice between Magic closing and another Stratton, yes, I would prefer another Stratton.  I understand where you all are coming from about maintaining the vibe, etc., and I would love to see that not change much as well.  But, really though, the place is just one cranky lift inspector away from trouble.  If you think a business plan that depends on volunteers fixing things is better than investment that might bring with it some change, that's fine - we can all keep speculating every summer about whether or not Magic is going to be open next winter.  Personally, I'd prefer to see some money spent on the place.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

I get the impression that most of Magic's faithful would rather see it close and be a turn earning venue if the alternative was becoming a Stratton or Okemo type place.  If they wanted that product they'd already be skiing at Stratton and Okemo.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> Given the choice between Magic closing and another Stratton, yes, I would prefer another Stratton.  I understand where you all are coming from about maintaining the vibe, etc., and I would love to see that not change much as well.  But, really though, the place is just one cranky lift inspector away from trouble.  If you think a business plan that depends on volunteers fixing things is better than investment that might bring with it some change, that's fine - we can all keep speculating every summer about whether or not Magic is going to be open next winter.  Personally, I'd prefer to see some money spent on the place.





Lol... Well that is quite possibly the most pompous outlook possible.  The business plan doesn't depend on volunteers fixing things, that was a function of people stepping in to help when they saw an opportunity to be had for the mountain and simply not giving a shit about what was in it for them other than making the hill a better place.  "Value added bonus" is a key term.  

Investments have been and continue to be made ya fuckin smartass.  You just don't ski there so you haven't seen them.  Even if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years, but you wouldn't bother with stupid things like facts would you??  It was never a question of opening it was a question of WHO was going to own it when it did...  But again, you twist the situation to fit your needs as a habitual internet complainer.

Are you in Steamy's ski club by chance?  You sound like you're sitting at the same fire. 

In all reality I would take ANY option over Magic closing, but in all reality it had improved vastly every year since reopening- again though- you don't go there so you have no fucking idea what the reality is, you're just high on your own entitlement and ideas about what "should" happen.  It's not one cranky inspector away from anything.  Again IF YOU FUCKING READ WHAT I WROTE YOU'D KNOW THAT.  

I'm really getting sick of people ignoring what I'm saying and substituting their own dilusions of Stratton.  What is it about this place that inspires such pompous douchebaggery and rabid speculation??  I can honestly see why MMP just uses this place as one big running joke.  The mods are awesome and a few people are cool but Jesus...  You guys have seriously got to learn your goddam role and stop assuming you know what is or has been going on.  I'm getting sick of correcting people and having them ignore what I say only to let the assumptions snowball.  It's REALLY annoying.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I get the impression that most of Magic's faithful would rather see it close and be a turn earning venue if the alternative was becoming a Stratton or Okemo type place.  If they wanted that product they'd already be skiing at Stratton and Okemo.




I would never bite off my nose to spite my face like that.  Magic needs to live on, and I just hope it can grow in the right way.  I feel it really has but for some, Rome will never be built fast enough.  Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives for those people though, and those of us who appreciate the place that Magic is don't have to deal with too many entitled types.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> *Yeah fuck those people. *(Lol)
> 
> It's not their fault magic didn't make a ton of dough.  They have, however, put up with Magic through those tough early years and many have worked hard to help keep it open.  I'd be more inclined to tell the johnny-come-lately *snooty bitches *that demand the world for the price of a day ticket to *fuck off.*





Do Work said:


> Lol... Well that is quite possibly the most pompous outlook possible.  The business plan doesn't depend on volunteers fixing things, that was a function of people stepping in to help when they saw an opportunity to be had for the mountain and *simply not giving a shit *about what was in it for them other than making the hill a better place.  "Value added bonus" is a key term.
> 
> Investments have been and continue to be made *ya fuckin smartass*.  You just don't ski there so you haven't seen them.  Even if you read the* damn thread* you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years, but you wouldn't bother with stupid things like facts would you??  It was never a question of opening it was a question of WHO was going to own it when it did...  But again, you twist the situation to fit your needs as a habitual internet complainer.
> 
> ...


Such language......get a grip man....:dunce:

Magic as is doesn't work, until you come to that realization you're pissing into the wind.


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## Freezingupnorth (Sep 13, 2015)

It's refreshing to read a post like yours Do Work. My perception having worked in the ski industry for years is indeed, there's an unchecked sense of entitlement that runs part and parcel with condo- ownership and/or a pass purchase. News flash--machines like lifts and cats break down regardless of upkeep and Mo' nature can wreak hell on chairs-- particularly freezing rain.

Yet everyone seems to dismiss natural causation like weather or mechanical failure after their wallet takes a hit. Well, that's a personal decision that comes with some risk. Skiing's an outdoor sport unless you want to ski under a dome. And the risk I'm alluding to isn't always inherent. It's perceived risk. Risk ascribed by insurance companies that no doubt affects the cost of your lift ticket. Maybe if people stopped suing so frequently, demanding refunds for acts of God, and acting like coddled littled panzies the industry's insurance costs would go down and the cost of a pass. 

Don't blame the mountain for existing. You get hurt from choosing to ski, you assume risk. Things don't go right-- you fall, get hurt deal with it. People should expect basic safety checks of the lifts they're riding, but no one can anticipate an accident. That's why they call it an `accident.' Funny how many small European ski areas can afford modern lifts. Of course, in Europe, they'd laugh you out of the courtroom for half of the frivolous entitlement suits you see here.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years,


Yep two trails open from the top Chritmas/NewYears. Lifts down the entire season.

We're talking big time.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Such language......get a grip man....:dunce:
> 
> Magic as is doesn't work, until you come to that realization you're pissing into the wind.






Oh it works fine for me!  I'm actually very glad it doesn't work for you though hahahaha 


My language is simply a reflection on the rage induced by the inability for people to actually listen to anything but their need to postulate on a place they don't even go and therefore don't know a damn thing about.  It can be frustrating to do your best to inform people- who immediately ignore what you said and substitute reality for their own assumptions.  Infuriating even.  Fucked if I care what you think about my language, steamy.  Fuckity fuck fuck.  Lol.


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## Harvey (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> over-Strattonization



Department of Redundancy Department?

I haven't skied Magic (got to change that) but I sense there might be some commonality with my home mountains, Gore and Plattekill.  Gore has 105 trails and maybe 5 of them are truly old school. When people (not regulars) push to have Lower Steilhang straightened and bulldozed so you can get a groomer up the headwall I am like... Why. The Fuck. Does Every Ski Experience. Have To Be. HOMOGENIZED.


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## doublediamond (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I just think it's hilarious how many people ski magic "once or twice when the snow is good" but think they know...
> 
> I get the speculation but come on guys-  You want two brand new lifts and 100% snowmaking in like a month.  What part of incremental improvements don't you get and what dream world are you living in?  I mean if you knew Magic like you think you did you'd know just how funny that really is.  You just want to show up to a Strattonized Magic this thanksgiving and anything short of that is a complete and utter failure.  Riiiiiiiiight.  Let me know when you figure out how to make that happen there guys hahaha wow...  Just wow.



I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

The problem is ownership has promised and promised and promised year after year that this will be the year we turn around, Black and Red will both work, and we'll make a lot more snow with our fixed pipes.  And then nothing.  That and things like that the flag poles can't even get fixed for $300 and the Green lift rusting away half-built leaves sour tastes in the public who then aren't interested to even stop by for a day ticket let alone a season pass.

Magic doesn't need 100% snowmaking.  They don't need brand-new lifts.  I stand firm to what I said: Black needs to be gone.  Others agree even if fixed, it's not bringing confidence to the skiing public.  What they do need is a bunny chair, 3 routes at a minimum off the top with snowmaking with a solid base by Christmas and groomed daily.

But lifts is the #1 need.  By. Far.

Thing is that over the last 10 years many many lifts in great condition and properly maintained have come down.  By my count at least 5 suitable replacements for Black and/or Red have been taken down including a young HSQ for cheap, at least 11 suitable replacements for Green/Sun Corner have come down, and at least 17 suitable replacements for the Little Chair have come down in New England alone.  That's not including combining parts to make longer lifts.  The 3 Ascutney triples were sufficient to be combined for 1x to top and 1x to Sun Corner.  The 2 Stowe doubles can be combined to make a Sun Corner replacement.

Yes, I know the financial situation of Magic hasn't been good.  But where are the owners? Why have they consistently handed Magic over to operators without any financial stability?  Why hasn't the owners invested anything into the mountain to entice better operators?

With proper investments, Magic will be a cash cow as others have pointed out.  It breaks even with 20k visits and if it takes 1% from competitors it can increase it's skiers by what, 16k?

You can't invest operating profits back into massive infrastructure improvements if you're break even at best in great snow years.  You can't expect people to be hyped up willing to hand over their hard-earned money for passes if new ownership/operator/whatever's going on now won't even come clean about what needs to be done and what actually is being done for improvements.

Tenney has made a massive following just from a daily video on Facebook.

Magic has been lead by incompetent individuals after incompetent individuals since it reopened.  Massive changes in the style of leadership desperately need to be made.  And the public won't believe it until it is seen.

What makes me wary about the current situation?  The former operating entity was dissolved in March.  If current owners/operators/whatever had any cash they would have hit the ground running early Summer.  Obviously they had some interest to get negotiations started.  If cash was had a used lift could have been installed by opening day.  Several times LBO/ASC got one or more lifts installed by the opening day of their first season of ownership.  It is possible.  SkyTrans and other second hand firms have supplies of used lifts they've bought and fixed up.

Yes business deals can take a while, but it doesn't take all summer to close on the sale of a business or real estate.  And the slowness doesn't instill confidence, especially when it's the third operating entity in three years.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Yep two trails open from the top Chritmas/NewYears. Lifts down the entire season.
> 
> We're talking big time.




Again, if you had any frame of reference besides the mega resort you frequent, it might make sense.  Carry on tho I guess if it makes you feel important.


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## BodhiMax (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lol... Well that is quite possibly the most pompous outlook possible.  The business plan doesn't depend on volunteers fixing things, that was a function of people stepping in to help when they saw an opportunity to be had for the mountain and simply not giving a shit about what was in it for them other than making the hill a better place.  "Value added bonus" is a key term.
> 
> Investments have been and continue to be made ya fuckin smartass.  You just don't ski there so you haven't seen them.  Even if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years, but you wouldn't bother with stupid things like facts would you??  It was never a question of opening it was a question of WHO was going to own it when it did...  But again, you twist the situation to fit your needs as a habitual internet complainer.
> 
> ...



Wow... take it easy, man.  Am I the pompous one here, or are you?  I actually ski there regularly and, of course, have seen improvements.  But, I want to see the place become clearly sustainable and I hoped the news of new ownership would mean more than just incremental improvements.  Clearly, you think incremental improvements are all that is needed to get there.  I think differently.  I'm entitled to my opinion and you're, of course, entitled to your opinion (although, you might try being less of a dick about it, especially if you're trying to help sell the place).


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

Incremental improvements? The place is going backwards.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

BodhiMax said:


> Wow... take it easy, man.  Am I the pompous one here, or are you?  I actually ski there regularly and, of course, have seen improvements.  But, I want to see the place become clearly sustainable and I hoped the news of new ownership would mean more than just incremental improvements.  Clearly, you think incremental improvements are all that is needed to get there.  I think differently.  I'm entitled to my opinion and you're, of course, entitled to your opinion (although, you might try being less of a dick about it, especially if you're trying to help sell the place).




I will always be a dick about it when someone suggests intrawest should buy the place fwiw.  Also I'd love to see a huge was of cash invested but I'm realistic enough to know that is not likely.  I'd rather be a part of a constructive solution than the bitching choir that isn't satisfied with whatever state it happens to be in.  We would all love to see the place really shine, but honestly I'm still happy with the improvements that have been made and if they can stay on that track I'm thrilled.  Perspective is hugely relevant in magic's case and the last 8 or so years have taught me a lot about how it works and what to realistically expect.  Sorry if I get cranky but people act like they want to know but they don't- they want their assumptions affirmed.  I'm also not trying to sell anything, simply inform people.  Clearly it's wasted breath.


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Incremental improvements? The place is going backwards.




Lol no it isn't.  Keep being a dick though man, it definitely fits you haha


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

I for one don't find it wasted breath.  You bring true on the ground information and committed passion for the place.  

My only suggestion would be to ignore the haters.  Not worth your time.


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## yeggous (Sep 13, 2015)

Let's focus on what they really need: flags.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## prsboogie (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lol no it isn't.  Keep being a dick though man, it definitely fits you haha



Stop feeding the troll!! I can only say the majority of the comments are directly aimed at flaming your ass!! Plenty of us here are looking for real beta and I for one cannot wait to get up there and check it out for myself. My groms are excited to check it out as well. Ullr be kind and dump white gold for all to enjoy!!


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> My only suggestion would be to ignore the haters.  Not worth your time.




Truth.  I'm turning up the goofage.  It's way more fun.


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## MMP (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Yeah fuck those people. (Lol)
> .  I'd be more inclined to tell the johnny-come-lately snooty bitches that demand the world for the price of a day ticket to fuck off.




A-Fucking-Men


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## Scruffy (Sep 13, 2015)

Magic is truly a special place, esp. when the woods are skiable. Everyone, who has said they should get there and hasn't yet, make this your year- what are you waiting for?

And Do Work, some of us appreciate the information your bring to the table.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Again, if you had any frame of reference


New at Magic for the 2015/16 season.............Maybe?


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## MMP (Sep 13, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> I .  That and things like that the flag poles can't even get fixed for $300 and the Green lift rusting away half-built leaves sour tastes in the public who then aren't interested to even stop by for a day ticket let alone a season .



Haha. Finally someone focused on the real point. 

Reading all this, I guess I'd rather wait in line with people that want to be there, as opposed to riding a new lift with most of you. 

Fuck you pussies.


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## marcski (Sep 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> New at Magic for the 2015/16 season.............Maybe?


Why are you here?


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## skithetrees (Sep 13, 2015)

The truth is magic has been run by a bunch of average (relatively speaking) joes with the dream of running a ski area. Yes, not all hve been good people, but they are gone. I would think anyone here, if nowhere else, could appreciate that. They all had good intentions and a dream, but, for the most part, were over their heads. I can't fault them. Heck, I would love to run the place if I could. All this talk is depressing. The place is trying, let's hope for the best. If you don't like it, get over it and move along. Sure changes are needed, but stuff IS happening.


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## prsboogie (Sep 13, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Truth.  I'm turning up the goofage.  It's way more fun.



This^^


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## Do Work (Sep 13, 2015)

Harvey said:


> Department of Redundancy Department?
> 
> I haven't skied Magic (got to change that) but I sense there might be some commonality with my home mountains, Gore and Plattekill.  Gore has 105 trails and maybe 5 of them are truly old school. When people (not regulars) push to have Lower Steilhang straightened and bulldozed so you can get a groomer up the headwall I am like... Why. The Fuck. Does Every Ski Experience. Have To Be. HOMOGENIZED.




Harv, I seriously cannot wait to get you there!  It's been years in the making and I for one am completely stoked to pop your Magic cherry with shotskis, tree skiing and sunshine corner shenanigans!


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## dlague (Sep 13, 2015)

Well a lot has been said.  I have skied Magic three times in two years.  While I was turned off by one chair operating a a time,  I still ski there because I like the terrain which many have eluded too.  Slightly faster lifts and lifts that can operate year after year would be huge improvements.  There is no need to have a quad IMO.  More dedication to making snow would also be nice.  Commercializing Magic would be wrong but increased sales will have to be a requirement for them to survive.  Status quo will not work.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

marcski said:


> Why are you here?


To insert some reality into this thread otherwise it's just a love fest. Haven't been there lately, maybe twice since they reopened but I can assure you I skied Magic many times way before most of you stepped foot on the mountain. That includes the faithful. It was actually very nice at one time with it's Swiss themed hotels & base lodge. That changed a long time ago.


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## marcski (Sep 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> To insert some reality into this thread otherwise it's just a love fest. Haven't been there lately, maybe twice since they reopened but I can assure you I skied Magic many times way before most of you stepped foot on the mountain. That includes the faithful. It was actually very nice at one time with it's Swiss themed hotels & base lodge. That changed a long time ago.



I highly doubt you were there before me and my family.  But that is neither here nor there. Go back to your frat house at Killington and stay there. From your many negative, misinformed posts in this thread, you'd be happier there and unhappy at Magic. Why do you get enjoyment out of raining on other people's parade and love for Magic??


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## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> To insert some reality into this thread otherwise it's just a love fest. Haven't been there lately, maybe twice since they reopened but I can assure you I skied Magic many times way before most of you stepped foot on the mountain. That includes the faithful. It was actually very nice at one time with it's Swiss themed hotels & base lodge. That changed a long time ago.




I can see Steamy now- on Magic's front lawn by the flagpoles shaking his cane and yelling at people for being too happy hahahaha "I was here first!!!  Why are you smiling and laughing?!??  Didn't you read where I said it sucks here now?!!!"


Lol


Just beat it.  We're WAY onto you Steamer.  Your histrionics are laughable and will be regarded as nothing but a sad joke from here on out.


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## MMP (Sep 14, 2015)

Do work, let's get our families and 46 randoms to go in on a house, errrr "lodge". 

Imagine Sunday morning, waiting your turn for the bathroom....then ripping some high speed quad groomer laps. 

Since magic sucks I mean.


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## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

MMP said:


> Do work, let's get our families and 46 randoms to go in on a house, errrr "lodge".
> 
> Imagine Sunday morning, waiting your turn for the bathroom....then ripping some high speed quad groomer laps.
> 
> Since magic sucks I mean.




Yeah man let's do it!  I can't wait to stand in line for the bathroom and again for the lifts.  Then we can ski tracked out snow all day in a crowd!  It'll be awesome!  Waaaay better than Magic!!!


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## Sorcerer (Sep 14, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lol no it isn't.  Keep being a dick though man, it definitely fits you haha



I think you should ignore steamboat1 posts. His comments aren't meant to be factual or constructive. He's just out to get a rise out of people. Don't go for the bait.

I can't wait for his response :flag:


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## Sorcerer (Sep 14, 2015)

yeggous said:


> Let's focus on what they really need: flags.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app




They have flags. They need the bucket truck to get them hung.


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## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> I think you should ignore steamboat1 posts. His comments aren't meant to be factual or constructive. He's just out to get a rise out of people. Don't go for the bait.
> 
> I can't wait for his response :flag:






Oh, I've caught on.  The guy is a real piece of work and will be regarded as the butt of many a joke henceforth.  :flag:


His whole "too much love" comment STILL has me giggling- like he's doing anybody a favor by being cantankerous haha what a maroon.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 14, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> To insert some reality into this thread otherwise it's just a love fest. Haven't been there lately, maybe twice since they reopened but I can assure you I skied Magic many times way before most of you stepped foot on the mountain. That includes the faithful. It was actually very nice at one time with it's Swiss themed hotels & base lodge. That changed a long time ago.



I doubt that you were there before me. But, if you were, that makes you old enough to get real cranky waiting in  line for the bathroom at the overcrowded chalet. I'm sure that skiing Magic, maybe twice as you said(hard to count above 2),  since it reopened 18 years ago makes you a real expert. Get a life.


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 14, 2015)

If Magic were my hill I would correct inaccuracies but refrain from arguing with persons with an agenda. Not worth your time. :flag:


----------



## slatham (Sep 14, 2015)

Yeah, whenever someone does something utterly stupid and embarrassing this season, we'll say he pulled a "Steamer". I can see is providing some significant comic relief this winter. 

Meanwhile, in So VT this morning and I saw the temp in the 40's for the first time this season (my first time at least). Some leaves are starting to change, trails getting mowed. It's getting close! 

THINK SNOW!


----------



## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

slatham said:


> Yeah, whenever someone does something utterly stupid and embarrassing this season, we'll say he pulled a "Steamer". I can see is providing some significant comic relief this winter.
> 
> Meanwhile, in So VT this morning and I saw the temp in the 40's for the first time this season (my first time at least). Some leaves are starting to change, trails getting mowed. It's getting close!
> 
> THINK SNOW!




Or ridiculous complaints like not grooming the whole place out on a pow day-  total "steamer" haha


----------



## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

Mood lightener from Radam to get this thread back on track :-D


----------



## marcski (Sep 14, 2015)

Do all of you negative naysayers see that video??  Strattonize and the mountain and kiss those empty, powderfilled trails goodbye.


----------



## MMP (Sep 14, 2015)

Guess who was and who was not in that video.


----------



## BodhiMax (Sep 14, 2015)

marcski said:


> Do all of you negative naysayers see that video??  Strattonize and the mountain and kiss those empty, powderfilled trails goodbye.



I guess you're referring in part to me.  And, if I come across as negative - sorry - I view it as realistic; others see it as negative.  So be it.  And, I'm not interested in Strattonizing the place either - Bromleyize is probably a better word.  In any event, I wish only the best for the mountain; would prefer the trails stay relatively empty as well, just not too empty.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2015)

Bring on the attackers but I don't give a fawk! 

There have been some nice incremental improvements despite limited resources. And that is by no means a knock on the folks who have dedicated countless volunteer hours. BUT I also see some things that they have dropped the ball on that are easily within their control.

1. Horribly inaccurate snow reports. Pretty much every time I go now there are trails reportedly open but roped off when I get to it. I would chalk it up as a mistake but when it happens multiple days in a row? I realize staffing is limited and legally all trails have to be checked by staff but why couldn't they have a few volunteers who ski/ride questionable trails at the end of the day to give the report more accuracy?

2. I know there some changes in Patrol but the way they decide whether a trail is open or closed is atrocious. Their marketing slogan does not align with their policies. I've seen trails in prime condition have a rope across it and I have also seen trails open that require you to take your skis off (Green Line)
3. Hypocritical staff - I get called stupid for ducking a rope but an employee and his buddies go right under a rope without a second thought? Yea and these weren't patrollers. I really didn't give a fawk and skied right past those m effers but someone else might find it obnoxious. 

I hope a change in management does the mountain good because it really undermined what all the volunteers have been trying to accomplish in recent years.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 14, 2015)

And the beat goes on...


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Bring on the attackers but I don't give a fawk!
> 
> There have been some nice incremental improvements despite limited resources. And that is by no means a knock on the folks who have dedicated countless volunteer hours. BUT I also see some things that they have dropped the ball on that are easily within their control.
> 
> ...





I actually agree with all of those.  Snow report and communication with patrol is a huge deal going forward and definitely a priority.  

There will never be a rope up on green though.  Some stuff you will probably have to just use your judgement on for the most part.  I do see the issue with that though.


----------



## Hado226 (Sep 14, 2015)

If it were up to me, there'd never be a rope on any double black trail. That demarcation says it all. Experts only, if you screw up, rescue will take a while.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 14, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Mood lightener from Radam to get this thread back on track :-D




We need more posts like this in this thread.


----------



## benski (Sep 14, 2015)

Hado226 said:


> If it were up to me, there'd never be a rope on any double black trail. That demarcation says it all. Experts only, if you screw up, rescue will take a while.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I know some mountains set the bar for closed trails at where they can't safely take you down I the sled.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 14, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Mood lightener from Radam to get this thread back on track :-D



Great video. Not hard to see why you folks love Magic. Really hope that the new owners give it some TLC and keep it going.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

benski said:


> I know some mountains set the bar for closed trails at where they can't safely take you down I the sled.




This is basically how Magic has been deciding it, but with a weirdly sliding scale of willingness with no discernible regularity.  It has definitely been frustrating.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 14, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Great video. Not hard to see why you folks love Magic. Really hope that the new owners give it some TLC and keep it going.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




I'll try to dig up some more tomorrow when I'm on a real computer.  Maybe I can track down Rusty's groomer vid too.  The groomed terrain has really been the unsung hero of late.  I feel like everyone knows Magic has great trees but the strides made on the cord has been uncanny.


----------



## Hado226 (Sep 14, 2015)

benski said:


> I know some mountains set the bar for closed trails at where they can't safely take you down I the sled.


That's Magic's patrol policy, depends which red coats are on the hill. 

Could make for day to day inconsistencies wrt closures. 

There's a few I'd feel comfortable behind for a sled ride down Master, others Trick late in the day would be a gamble.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## thetrailboss (Sep 14, 2015)

Tenney has heard your concerns, folks.  Or at least MMP's.  



Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> And they like flags too!View attachment 17479


----------



## cdskier (Sep 14, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I realize staffing is limited and legally all trails have to be checked by staff but why couldn't they have a few volunteers who ski/ride questionable trails at the end of the day to give the report more accuracy?



Do they legally have to check all trails? I've always wondered whether patrol always checks a trail before opening it. I could understand having to sweep all open trails at the end of the day, so if that is what you mean, then that would make sense to me. Otherwise at least at other areas I've definitely had first tracks down trails which implies no one actually checked the trail in the morning. Although I guess if they know nothing substantial should have changed overnight then I could understand a trail not being checked in the morning before letting skiers on it if it was open the day before. I'm still also kind of thinking I've seen ropes dropped on trails without them being physically checked, but I could be wrong.


----------



## zoomzoom (Sep 14, 2015)

re: annual lift inspections

--- just google "vt tramway" to ascertain annual inspection requirements  the expectations are clear, and the areas have ample time (from roughly april thru october) to get ready.  no secrets, no surprises.  so how does one fail an inspection?   

--- annual lift inspection reports are "discoverable documents" (google time again).  if you want to know the inspectors' findings on the black over the last dozen years or so, contact erin.sylvia@vermont.gov for a copy of the reports (got this on the website too).  they are in the public domain and must be released to those who ask.         

--- the truth is out there if one digs a bit, the truth is not here.


----------



## MMP (Sep 15, 2015)

oompaloompa said:


> re: annual lift inspections
> 
> --- shown below are vt's annual lift inspection guidelines listing what is expected, what the area needs to demonstrate, what docs are needed, etc.  these requirements are available to everyone to see.  just google "vt tramway".  the expectations are clear, and the areas have ample time (from roughly april thru october) to get ready.  no secrets, no surprises.  so how does one fail an inspection?
> 
> ...



To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

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To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Section. 9.

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

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No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

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Article. II.

Section. 1.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section. 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section. 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section. 4.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Article III.

Section. 1.

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section. 2.

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;— between a State and Citizens of another State,—between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Section. 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Article. IV.

Section. 1.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Section. 2.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Section. 3.

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Section. 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

Article. VI.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Article. VII.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

The Word, "the," being interlined between the seventh and eighth Lines of the first Page, The Word "Thirty" being partly written on an Erazure in the fifteenth Line of the first Page, The Words "is tried" being interlined between the thirty second and thirty third Lines of the first Page and the Word "the" being interlined between the forty third and forty fourth Lines of the second Page.

Attest William Jackson Secretary

done in Convention by the Unanim Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed


----------



## Do Work (Sep 15, 2015)

cdskier said:


> Do they legally have to check all trails? I've always wondered whether patrol always checks a trail before opening it. I could understand having to sweep all open trails at the end of the day, so if that is what you mean, then that would make sense to me. Otherwise at least at other areas I've definitely had first tracks down trails which implies no one actually checked the trail in the morning. Although I guess if they know nothing substantial should have changed overnight then I could understand a trail not being checked in the morning before letting skiers on it if it was open the day before. I'm still also kind of thinking I've seen ropes dropped on trails without them being physically checked, but I could be wrong.





Depends.  Some trails have to be checked because they see strange winds etc that can scour them, but if you know the terrain, basic snow pack and what fell last night you can usually just make a judgement call based on general conditions.


----------



## MMP (Sep 15, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Depends.  Some trails have to be checked because they see strange winds etc that can scour them, but if you know the terrain, basic snow pack and what fell last night you can usually just make a judgement call based on general conditions.



assuming you aren't a complete idiot. frankly i preferred when stuff was roped and we could duck and ski without consequence. The patrollers have been playing small ball for a while. It's pretty annoying. My kid got his ticket punched because he put his safety bar up too soon. The patroller unfortunately didnt realize he clipped last weeks Burke ticket.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 15, 2015)

MMP said:


> assuming you aren't a complete idiot. frankly i preferred when stuff was roped and we could duck and ski without consequence. The patrollers have been playing small ball for a while. It's pretty annoying. My kid got his ticket punched because he put his safety bar up too soon. The patroller unfortunately didnt realize he clipped last weeks Burke ticket.




Cappie-tan is gone anyways.  The new guy has every motivation to ski the gnar but use signage so people know what they're getting into.  It's a big priority.  

Now if we could just keep stupid assholes from skiing upper Red we'd be all set!


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## dlague (Sep 15, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Cappie-tan is gone anyways.  The new guy has every motivation to ski the gnar but use signage so people know what they're getting into.  It's a big priority.
> 
> Now if we could just keep stupid assholes from skiing upper Red we'd be all set!



Keeping them off Upper Red would be nice but will be a challenge.  It get scraped off really fast and gets beat to shit!


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## Do Work (Sep 15, 2015)

dlague said:


> Keeping them off Upper Red would be nice but will be a challenge.  It get scraped off really fast and gets beat to shit!



It's a permanent closure.  Nobody should ever be on it unless the chair if turned off.  Period.


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## dlague (Sep 15, 2015)

Do Work said:


> It's a permanent closure.  Nobody should ever be on it unless the chair if turned off.  Period.



I am talking about the section off Witches!  The very Upper section has always been closed when I have been there.


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## slatham (Sep 15, 2015)

Upper upper Red (above Witch) is off limits and anyone who skis it should be banned forever.

Upper Red (b/w Witch and Wand) - there should be a "no slide slip test" before allowing entry!


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## Do Work (Sep 15, 2015)

slatham said:


> Upper upper Red (above Witch) is off limits and anyone who skis it should be banned forever.
> 
> Upper Red (b/w Witch and Wand) - there should be a "no slide slip test" before allowing entry!





Agreed on both counts haha...  It is like nails on a chalkboard when I see someone side slipping anything on Red.  It just hurts me inside.


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## makimono (Sep 15, 2015)

The upper section of red needs a few more redundant snow fences above the cliff. There was the Sobe fence below the cliff for a while. Need 2 or 3 of those just above the cliff spaced 10-15 feet apart. Need to make it a pain in the ass to ski, unfortunately.

Ten times more people skied that last year than I ever remember and I believe this is a consequence of keeping otherwise perfectly skiable trials closed. When people see Upper Magician roped but perfectly skiable, when people see Witch (and Goniff and Red Line and Upper Black Line) roped but perfectly skiable...when people see huge groups of regulars ducking those ropes repeatedly...it may give people that don't know the difference the sense that ALL ropes are okay to disregard.

I'm really glad to hear that's going to change this year!


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## MMP (Sep 15, 2015)

that little thing is a two-stager that no one skis properly. Angle from skiers right to left, launch, land, launch, avoid snowmaking pipe, proceed. Hurts my eyes to see the damage the "skiers" do to that. And the old "I cut in so didnt know it was closed" move? right.


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## dlague (Sep 15, 2015)

slatham said:


> Upper upper Red (above Witch) is off limits and anyone who skis it should be banned forever.
> 
> Upper Red (b/w Witch and Wand) - there should be a "no slide slip test" before allowing entry!



+1


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 15, 2015)

MMP said:


> that little thing is a two-stager that no one skis properly. Angle from skiers right to left, launch, land, launch, avoid snowmaking pipe, proceed. Hurts my eyes to see the damage the "skiers" do to that. And the old "I cut in so didnt know it was closed" move? right.



Wait are you saying that people don't get to Redline by cutting through the woods from Twilight Zone??? :what:


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## MMP (Sep 15, 2015)

From Witch or RH


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## Do Work (Sep 16, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Wait are you saying that people don't get to Redline by cutting through the woods from Twilight Zone??? :what:




We're talking about the section of Red above witch that is a permanent closure.  People think because they skied around 3 trees they can use the " I dunno I got lost in there and here I am, better ski down!" Excuse.  I've seen little kids tell at people for doing that haha


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 16, 2015)

I ski Redline from Sorcerer.


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## MMP (Sep 16, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I ski Redline from Sorcerer.



Backcountry yo


----------



## Do Work (Sep 16, 2015)

Just checking out some of the old videos and had to post a few.  Found Rusty's shot of people skiing Tali's epic grooming too

Just a few of the characters you'll see there:


----------



## Do Work (Sep 16, 2015)

OMG THE GROOMING!!!


----------



## slatham (Sep 16, 2015)

Great vids, though I didn't need to see the pre-ski gym session. Tali is a great high speed cruiser when all groomed up, and last year they groomed it to perfection.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 16, 2015)

slatham said:


> Great vids, though I didn't need to see the pre-ski gym session. Tali is a great high speed cruiser when all groomed up, and last year they groomed it to perfection.





EVERYONE needs to see Jake in short shorts haha


----------



## MMP (Sep 16, 2015)

see? why the hell would anyone want to part of this????

want to see something funny? a reply to my inquiry about bulk tickets.

Hi MMP*,


Technically you are suppose to purchase the same tickets you turned in.  However that being said, if you purchase Okemo or Killington or a mountain we purchase a lot of tickets from, you could buy another mountain.  But if you purchase tickets we don't buy a lot of, Magic, Bromley, you would have to purchase those as that would be the only way to get use your credit..


Hope that answers your question.  Sorry for the delay, as I was on vacation and had limited access to email.


hahahha


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 16, 2015)

A few pics for no real reason @ all.  Repeats I'm sure.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 17, 2015)

Do Work said:


> EVERYONE needs to see Jake in short shorts haha



I will happily wear short shorts every single day in the lodge this year.  Oh, what's that?  You want a cold beer from the bottom shelf.  Good thing I got my bartenders license last year and that I'm still wearing these short shorts.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 18, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I will happily wear short shorts every single day in the lodge this year.  Oh, what's that?  You want a cold beer from the bottom shelf.  Good thing I got my bartenders license last year and that I'm still wearing these short shorts.



I prefer to see you like this....


----------



## slatham (Sep 18, 2015)

Magic just posted on FB - if you plan to join next weekends (9/26) volunteer day please let them know via the FB page.

Me, I hope to be in for the 10/10 V-day.

Rusty, awesome shot. Those woods were sooo sweet last year. Hope we get a repeat (maybe with a better Christmas).


----------



## mbedle (Sep 18, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I will happily wear short shorts every single day in the lodge this year.  Oh, what's that?  You want a cold beer from the bottom shelf.  Good thing I got my bartenders license last year and that I'm still wearing these short shorts.



Funny - cracking up here.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 18, 2015)

& now we wait for PJ's next post in 2020.  Good job dude!


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 18, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Mood lightener from Radam to get this thread back on track :-D



Watched this with my son yesterday and he was all kinds of excited to check out Magic! "Daddy what's the name of that mountain? I wanna check that out this year!!"


----------



## jrmagic (Sep 20, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I will happily wear short shorts every single day in the lodge this year.  Oh, what's that?  You want a cold beer from the bottom shelf.  Good thing I got my bartenders license last year and that I'm still wearing these short shorts.



That night was funny as hell but PLEASE do not wear shorts in the lodge all season lmao!


----------



## BeachCoach (Sep 21, 2015)

Legendary...


----------



## slatham (Sep 23, 2015)

Nice video on FaceBook of a volunteer day from a few years ago when they ran Red to get you up the mountain. Hope they do that again this year!


----------



## Tin (Sep 23, 2015)

According to Magic's FB the deal has fallen through, no sale or change of ownership.


----------



## SKI-3PO (Sep 23, 2015)

Not good.


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 23, 2015)

Magic Mountain Ski Area

25 mins*·*

We wanted to provide an update on the status of the sale of Magic Mountain. The deal has fallen through and the mountain will remain in the hands of its current owners, MMM.


----------



## MMP (Sep 24, 2015)

Any idea how this impacts the flagpole repairs?? Done by opening day?


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 24, 2015)

And a quiet hush falls over the crowd...
Can any faithful put a positive spin on this? Do Work?


----------



## gmcunni (Sep 24, 2015)

facebook says



> To the people worried if it will open: this wasn't the buyers backing out, it was the sellers deciding they wanted to keep control. If there wasn't capital to open it wouldn't have been held and the sale would have gone through. Magic will open, it will simply be sans influx of cash and new people. Pretty bummed, but the show will go on and the mountain will open.


----------



## MMP (Sep 24, 2015)

Faithful and Magicment must be stricken from the lexicon.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 24, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> And a quiet hush falls over the crowd...
> Can any faithful put a positive spin on this? Do Work?




Well it wasn't the buyers walking away it was the sellers deciding they wanted to keep the mountain.  So yes they will open but don't hold your breath for anything but basic incremental improvements.  Also that bump in Instagram and FB activity will stop now so don't expect really any communication-based improvements either.  

More of the same I guess.  Oh well.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 24, 2015)

A statement from the sellers would be nice.   Was the offer to low?  Were the sellers concerned the new ownership would change the character of the mountain through over development?  Had the current ownership plan reconsidered their operational strategy and think they can run it more profitably and give the tired areas of the facility the attention it needs?

I'm sure this is a real let down for the faithful.  Then again, I'm sure it doesn't come as a surprise.


----------



## slatham (Sep 24, 2015)

Unfortunately the title of this thread that I started over a year ago still applies........

The only positive spin is that most winter forecasts I've seen appear to be favorable for a good winter. But the owners are playing a bit of roulette because a bad winter like 11/12 would cause the price to drop and maybe even scare away any potential buyers.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> & now we wait for PJ's next post in 2020.  Good job dude!



Not gonna have to wait that long.  Fuck Tom Barker and his selfish, stupid fucking decision.  Seriously.  I'm livid right now.  The fact that he thinks he can run the place this year after last year's complete shit show absolutely blows my mind.  If anyone wants to write him angry letters, I will happily post his personal email address.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> That night was funny as hell but PLEASE do not wear shorts in the lodge all season lmao!



That night was definitely one for the ages.



BeachCoach said:


> Legendary...



I do what I can to bring the party with me.  Unfortunately, that party may be moving on after the bullshit that TB pulled in the last 24 hours.


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 24, 2015)

...


----------



## yeggous (Sep 24, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> ...



Yes, sometimes the comments write themselves.

In other news... From the formerly struggling mountain bought out by a big corporation department... Wildcat blew out the mice this morning. By the looks of the photo they were using the new shiny SnowLogic tower guns to water some grass seed.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Do Work (Sep 24, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> A statement from the sellers would be nice.   Was the offer to low?  Were the sellers concerned the new ownership would change the character of the mountain through over development?  Had the current ownership plan reconsidered their operational strategy and think they can run it more profitably and give the tired areas of the facility the attention it needs?
> 
> I'm sure this is a real let down for the faithful.  Then again, I'm sure it doesn't come as a surprise.






That statement will never come and Tom simply likes owning the mountain.  The more I think about it the more pissed I get about who is in charge now but I am going to have to sign off until I can have a sit down with Tom and figure out what the heck is actually going on.  If Rob L is seriously going to be running this mountain I fucking give up.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> That statement will never come and Tom simply likes owning the mountain.  The more I think about it the more pissed I get about who is in charge now but I am going to have to sign off until I can have a sit down with Tom and figure out what the heck is actually going on.  If Rob L is seriously going to be running this mountain I fucking give up.



Sitting down with an alcoholic, coked up monkey and asking them why they smeared shit on the wall is a good way to have shit smeared on your face and three fingers bitten off.  Keep that in mind when you try to have intelligent conversation with the fuck ups that call themselves management.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Sitting down with an alcoholic, coked up monkey and asking them why they smeared shit on the wall is a good way to have shit smeared on your face and three fingers bitten off.  Keep that in mind when you try to have intelligent conversation with the fuck ups that call themselves management.



Wow.  Tell us how you really feel.  

Any more news on the transition?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Wow.  Tell us how you really feel.
> 
> Any more news on the transition?



Are you fucking illiterate?  There is no more transition.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Are you fucking illiterate?  There is no more transition.



Just went back through the thread and saw that.  Wow.  That sucks for them.


----------



## Tin (Sep 24, 2015)

The same shitty ski patrol and snow report?


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2015)

So if the statement bears any truth, it sounds like the ownership was looking for a lease deal and wants to continue to own the ground, perhaps as an investment.  The suitor did not want to do that and wanted outright ownership, perhaps to see the benefit(s) of their investment instead of improving someone else's property.


----------



## jrmagic (Sep 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I like Tom and can understand why he feels the way he does.  I don't like that he can't look past wanting to be "the guy" above all else but I get it.  What I don't understand is why he would get Rob Lyszczarz aka Scumbag Extraordinaire, known ripoff artist and Aichholz puppet supreme back on the hill in any capacity.  That is literally the worst move he could have made given the options.  Not one person likes him, trusts him or thinks he will accomplish anything good.  Tom was ok I guess...  Rob is a fucking travesty.



Agree 100% . Tom is a good guy but Rob really?? That's a fucking nightmare!


----------



## Do Work (Sep 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> The same shitty ski patrol and snow report?





This is likely.  Also new sleazy asshole manager too from the sounds of it unless I'm hearing wrong.  I have literally never been so unstoked to be a part of the Magic equation...  And things were shaping up to be freakin' awesome too.  Talk about a letdown.  What the fuck.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> This is likely.  Also new sleazy asshole manager too from the sounds of it unless I'm hearing wrong.  I have literally never been so unstoked to be a part of the Magic equation...  And things were shaping up to be freakin' awesome too.  Talk about a letdown.  What the fuck.



It's like going to prom with the hottest girl in the school, getting away with spiking the punch bowl, doing some shots with your bros on the deck at the after party, and then you walk in on her blowing two other guys.


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 24, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> It's like going to prom with the hottest girl in the school, getting away with spiking the punch bowl, doing some shots with your bros on the deck at the after party, and then you walk in on her blowing two other guys.



Sounds like you have experienced that before.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Sounds like you have experienced that before.



Saw it in a movie once. Thought to myself. Damn that sucks. Then the third guy joined in. I only saw about another 30 seconds worth after that.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 24, 2015)

Guessing you'll be cutting back on the volunteering.


----------



## Tin (Sep 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> This is likely.  Also new sleazy asshole manager too from the sounds of it unless I'm hearing wrong.  I have literally never been so unstoked to be a part of the Magic equation...  And things were shaping up to be freakin' awesome too.  Talk about a letdown.  What the fuck.




I just do not understand how it is so difficult to judge trails and then relay that information to the public. It amazes me. I would gladly volunteer to do this on Thursdays and drive the 6 hours to do it. They could really take a note out of Tenney's book in terms of communication. Tenney has exploded on FB this summer thanks to updates and communication. Hell, I'd volunteer to do that as well. Anything is better than what they have now. It is just not as difficult as they make it seem and is the easiest way to get people considering Magic.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> They could really take a note out of Tenney's book in terms of communication.



This...


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I like Tom and can understand why he feels the way he does.  I don't like that he can't look past wanting to be "the guy" above all else but I get it.  What I don't understand is why he would get Rob Lyszczarz aka Scumbag Extraordinaire, known ripoff artist and Aichholz puppet supreme back on the hill in any capacity.  That is literally the worst move he could have made given the options.  Not one person likes him, trusts him or thinks he will accomplish anything good.  Tom was ok I guess...  Rob is a fucking travesty.



You couldn't have said it better


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> The same shitty ski patrol and snow report?



You don't like incompetence?


----------



## WWF-VT (Sep 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I like Tom and can understand why he feels the way he does.  I don't like that he can't look past wanting to be "the guy" above all else but I get it.  What I don't understand is why he would get Rob Lyszczarz aka Scumbag Extraordinaire, known ripoff artist and Aichholz puppet supreme back on the hill in any capacity.  That is literally the worst move he could have made given the options.  Not one person likes him, trusts him or thinks he will accomplish anything good.  Tom was ok I guess...  Rob is a fucking travesty.



Sounds like a great ownership and management team poised to move Magic up the ladder of success.


----------



## DJAK (Sep 24, 2015)

If they have a really bad year and perhaps don't operate it'll be fantastic hiking and perhaps be forced to sell quick afterward. Is that the long view?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> I just do not understand how it is so difficult to judge trails and then relay that information to the public. It amazes me. I would gladly volunteer to do this on Thursdays and drive the 6 hours to do it. They could really take a note out of Tenney's book in terms of communication. Tenney has exploded on FB this summer thanks to updates and communication. Hell, I'd volunteer to do that as well. Anything is better than what they have now. It is just not as difficult as they make it seem and is the easiest way to get people considering Magic.



When your head of ski patrol can't get down the greens, he thinks they are too dangerous for everyone.  New ownership had people in place ready to take over, and let's be honest, they were killing it on Instagram.  Now it's all down the drain again.


----------



## MMP (Sep 24, 2015)

how is this new manager regarding the flags. you guys cannot focus on what really matters.

Heres where i stand; As far from the date i wrote the check to "save magic" as possible. Hard to imagine giving these inept people thousands of dollars, but lots of us did. I am now a customer only. I was as invested a stakeholder as anyone (that doesn't own a real estate interest), and now other than my selfishly wanting to ski there wont be advocating for Magic anymore. 

I'll be loading up on the groupons and see you fuckers on pow days. Think I'll buy a Mad Card too . Barker is good for business, other mountains.


----------



## slatham (Sep 24, 2015)

May have missed something but what role is Rob L playing? I know he's one of the owners via MMM, but the thread implies he's going to be involved in the running of the mountain? I would have assumed Tom was running the mountain.


----------



## Boston16 (Sep 24, 2015)

Magic was about to get an infusion of fresh capital and new management. Deal was basically complete, new owners had started mtn prep, work on the black chair and snowmaking. I'm hearing now that one minority owner just backed out at last minute, and it's the same owner that owned a condo on mtn, stiffed the condo association for dues and let the bank foreclose on his condo. I guess this guy wants the same for Magic.


----------



## makimono (Sep 24, 2015)

Sucks. I'm going to ski upper Red Line 1st run in protest.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

slatham said:


> May have missed something but what role is Rob L playing? I know he's one of the owners via MMM, but the thread implies he's going to be involved in the running of the mountain? I would have assumed Tom was running the mountain.



No idea what role Rob will play, but do you really want someone like this involved in any form or fashion? http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Rob-L...aking-Advantage-of-People-in-VT-Westf-1161259

I would rather be subject to a series of torture events including being forced to  listen to MMMBop by Hanson at full volume for 72 straight hours, cleaning the Black Line Tavern's floor with my tongue, and only being allowed to ski in jeans on Snowllerblades for the rest of my life.


----------



## slatham (Sep 24, 2015)

Yes I found that when I did some research on the parties involved in MMM. Seems like a nice gent based on that report. So he's been somewhat involved already via MMM. But I agree if he is involved in the management company that is leasing and running Magic that would be a different story. So I wonder if he is in fact  now involved in running the mountain?


----------



## Tin (Sep 24, 2015)

makimono said:


> Sucks. I'm going to ski upper Red Line 1st run in protest.




Double Freedom Rockets for the win!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 24, 2015)

I don't know if it's something in the water but I think Magic folk suffer from multiple personality disorder


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 24, 2015)

Lazzoo buy half the place maybe worth a try.


----------



## MMP (Sep 24, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I don't know if it's something in the water but I think Magic folk suffer from multiple personality disorder



Passion. But call it whatever you want.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I don't know if it's something in the water but I think Magic folk suffer from multiple personality disorder



I'm not sure we suffer from it. More like enjoy every minute of it. Best part?  I've always got someone to talk to.


----------



## Tin (Sep 24, 2015)

More like masichism. You guys have a condo all decked out for FemDom?


----------



## ss20 (Sep 24, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I don't know if it's something in the water but I think Magic folk suffer from multiple personality disorder



I was thinking they're more of a passive-aggressive type.  My goal is to make it there this year.  Tough to commit any money to a place with one working lift, no snowmaking, and 1500' of vertical


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 24, 2015)

There are a lot of people out there that really want to know what went on. I would hope that the current management is transparent and 100% clear about exactly what went wrong here.  A full scale alpine update with all of the details would be nice. And nobody gives a shit about the weather on Tuesday or how many "young people" got their cars stuck in the mud.


----------



## WWF-VT (Sep 24, 2015)

What's management's new exit strategy - Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 bankruptcy ?


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 24, 2015)

...


----------



## Magic (Sep 25, 2015)

So now I read no one wants to buy season passes, but don't they need the season pass money to get the lifts done now?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 25, 2015)

Sounds about right. That and snowmaking. Going to be in a real chicken and egg situation soon.  

"I'm not buying a pass unless the mountain is open."
"I can't open unless a bunch of people buy passes to support lifts and snowmaking." 

And around we go. Like a carousel. Goes around and around and up and down.  Hoping for a bull dance on the other side of this.


----------



## slatham (Sep 25, 2015)

Given the work on the lifts that has already occurred and is in process, I would speculate that Tom had capital from last year and early (spring) season pass sales to complete. I think fall season pass sales (and 3 packs etc etc) will be the factor that determines the early season snowmaking budget. But I think that to drive fall sales he will need to come out with some definitive news on the status of the lifts, plans for snowmaking etc. There's too much skepticism from the core season pass audience to overcome without such a statement. Hope that happens, otherwise we'll be reliant on natural snow.


----------



## doublediamond (Sep 25, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> facebook says
> 
> 
> 
> > To the people worried if it will open: this wasn't the buyers backing out, it was the sellers deciding they wanted to keep control. If there wasn't capital to open it wouldn't have been held and the sale would have gone through. Magic will open, it will simply be sans influx of cash and new people. Pretty bummed, but the show will go on and the mountain will open.



Jesus.

Barely any money to open last year.  Thoughts there would be no money this year.  Then cancel the deal.

Did the Magic owner(s) go to the James Confalone School of Business?

(If you don't know who James Confalone is, I suggest you read up on Big Squaw, ME. To this day he refuses to sell his land yet hold grasp on an under-capitalized ski area like a control freak.)


----------



## doublediamond (Sep 25, 2015)

Can someone give a low-down of Magic ownership/operators now and in the past? Seems a jumble of the same people (minus Jim).  What' this Rob L's role in Magic? He the minority owner with the association dues issue?


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 25, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Jesus.
> 
> Barely any money to open last year.  Thoughts there would be no money this year.  Then cancel the deal.
> 
> ...



Sounds about right.


----------



## marcski (Sep 25, 2015)

An article from last summer had this to say:

There are two entities that own Magic Mountain. The land and most of the infrastructure is owned by Magic Mountain Management, which has three partners: The family of Larry Nelson, now deceased, who bought the property at auction in 2002; Rob Lyszczarz, a New Jersey-based Realtor, and Barker, who owns a minority voting share (all are longtime Magic skiers). MMM then leases the ski area to an operating company. Most recently this was JSL Magic and Sullivan, but it has included other entities over the years.

Source:
http://www.powder.com/stories/magic-mountain-changes-ownership/


----------



## Wheeler (Sep 25, 2015)

MMM owns the mountain and facilities, but MMM now has 2 partners: Tom B and Rob L. The Nelsons gave over their ownership interest last year. This past year, MMM leased the ski area to Tom B.


----------



## jrmagic (Sep 25, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Can someone give a low-down of Magic ownership/operators now and in the past? Seems a jumble of the same people (minus Jim).  What' this Rob L's role in Magic? He the minority owner with the association dues issue?



Not defending the actions of the current owners cause I think they are ridiculous for backing away from the sale but I'm pretty sure I would have heard about association dues lapsing by a member of the ownership/management company and I havent.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 25, 2015)

Well hopefully cooler heads will prevail and something can be worked out.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## doublediamond (Sep 25, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Not defending the actions of the current owners cause I think they are ridiculous for backing away from the sale but I'm pretty sure I would have heard about association dues lapsing by a member of the ownership/management company and I havent.



That's what someone said a few pages ago.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 25, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> That's what someone said a few pages ago.



But if you went by some of what was said, the owners are also coke heads and all sorts of other things ...


----------



## Wheeler (Sep 25, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Not defending the actions of the current owners cause I think they are ridiculous for backing away from the sale but I'm pretty sure I would have heard about association dues lapsing by a member of the ownership/management company and I havent.



Rob L lapsed on condo association fees, not those associated with MMM or Magic Mountain.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 26, 2015)

I love naysayers and downtalkers.  It makes me laugh and motivates me to do more.  While they smugly sit behind their keyboards and talk shit to feel like a big man, we work towards a better tomorrow.  Fuck em haha


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 26, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I love naysayers and downtalkers.  It makes me laugh and motivates me to do more.  While they smugly sit behind their keyboards and talk shit to feel like a big man, we work towards a better tomorrow.  Fuck em haha



You need to learn to relax!


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 26, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> You need to learn to relax!



Yeah man.  You should try this stuff a buddy of mine told me about. I think it's called weed. Will totally mellow you out.


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 26, 2015)

Who smoking and learning and build some nice tress high this weekend ?


----------



## Tin (Sep 26, 2015)

Wow, another Magic FB post. Hope it keeps up.


----------



## slatham (Sep 26, 2015)

Another Face Book post today from Magic - on the volunteer day and tomorrow's moon. Certainly not the radio silence I was afraid of given the spring silence. Now if they could just give us a bit of substance as to status of mountain and plans I will be blown away......


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 26, 2015)

Solar eclipse?


----------



## ScottySkis (Sep 26, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Solar eclipse?



Are you glade Runner?


----------



## makimono (Sep 26, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Solar eclipse?



"The weather promises to stay clear for a good viewing of the solar  eclipse Sunday night. Magic is a great spot to bring your chairs and  favorite beverage to watch the event!"

Haha I think someone started early


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 26, 2015)

Aww...You should have pasted the whole thing. That alternate spelling of beautiful is awesome.  Even my phone autocorrects it....


----------



## moresnow (Sep 26, 2015)

makimono said:


> "The weather promises to stay clear for a good viewing of the solar  eclipse Sunday night. Magic is a great spot to bring your chairs and  favorite beverage to watch the event!"
> 
> Haha I think someone started early



Solar eclipse Sunday night? Isn't it a lunar eclipse?


----------



## SnowRock (Sep 26, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Aww...You should have pasted the whole thing. That alternate spelling of beautiful is awesome.  Even my phone autocorrects it....



On one hand its a just a typo and mistake.... no big deal. On the other hand... its the primary channel you are using to communicate to your customers and you put that post together? 

No real skin in the game other than the fact I really enjoyed my first trip to Magic last year and can totally see how those that love it, love it. So for you all I hope things come together. I'll definitely be planning to get up there again this year if red is spinning.


----------



## marcski (Sep 26, 2015)

moresnow said:


> Solar eclipse Sunday night? Isn't it a lunar eclipse?


Yes. Hey it's Magic...close enough.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 26, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> You need to learn to relax!



With some of the things said of late in this thread, I think that was a pretty relaxed response.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 26, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> You need to learn to relax!




I could not be more relaxed.  I'm way past any negativity about any of this whole debacle.  Magic is and will continue to be alive and well and I'm feeling great after a long day in the trees.


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 26, 2015)

Any pics from the mountain?


----------



## Do Work (Sep 26, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Any pics from the mountain?





I didn't take any.  I think somebody did though, I'll ask.  Absolute killer run though- the pitch and spacing are literally perfect!  Great to get back out there, get the stoke train rolling and have some burgers & beers on the deck with the crew once again.


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 26, 2015)

Sounds like a great run to check out with my new magics!!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 26, 2015)

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## slatham (Sep 27, 2015)

Do Work, glad it was a good and productive day yesterday. Any insight on lift and snowmaking status? Was Tom flipping burgers? See you in 2 weeks.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 27, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Sounds like a great run to check out with my new magics!!




Seriously!  


Nice shots JamaicaMan.  Good to see you out there!  


And yes, Tom was flipping burgers and hanging out.  No real news since I believe parties are still "working on it" but who knows, really.  Time will tell.


----------



## Mapnut (Sep 28, 2015)

makimono said:


> "The weather promises to stay clear for a good viewing of the solar  eclipse Sunday night. Magic is a great spot to bring your chairs and  favorite beverage to watch the event!"
> 
> Haha I think someone started early


I'm glad you caught that! Do you know how rare night-time solar eclipses are? The next one won't happen for the next 276 years! Be prepared for the end of the world when it does!


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Sep 28, 2015)

Mapnut said:


> I'm glad you caught that! Do you know how rare night-time solar eclipses are? The next one won't happen for the next 276 years! Be prepared for the end of the world when it does!



They're about as rare as daytime solar eclipses - its always nighttime somewhere on the earth.


----------



## dlague (Sep 28, 2015)

Next Super Moon Eclipse will be in 2033


----------



## Wheeler (Sep 29, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> There are a lot of people out there that really want to know what went on. I would hope that the current management is transparent and 100% clear about exactly what went wrong here.  A full scale alpine update with all of the details would be nice. And nobody gives a shit about the weather on Tuesday or how many "young people" got their cars stuck in the mud.



I can't speak on behalf of management but will do so on behalf of my family, the Nelsons, who are the majority lien holders of the property. Anyone who has skied at Magic in recent years knows that it has great terrain and an amazingly loyal community but is sorely in need of an infusion of capital. Recognizing this, my family found a suitable buyer who was committed to investing in the mountain. Unfortunately, as everyone now knows, the deal fell through. Any questions regarding the transaction should be directed to either the seller or potential buyer for more information. The Nelson family remains committed to the long-term viability of the mountain, and we will continue to explore available options to ensure Magic survives for generations to come.


----------



## Not Sure (Sep 29, 2015)

Wheeler said:


> I can't speak on behalf of management but will do so on behalf of my family, the Nelsons, who are the majority lien holders of the property. Anyone who has skied at Magic in recent years knows that it has great terrain and an amazingly loyal community but is sorely in need of an infusion of capital. Recognizing this, my family found a suitable buyer who was committed to investing in the mountain. Unfortunately, as everyone now knows, the deal fell through. Any questions regarding the transaction should be directed to either the seller or potential buyer for more information. The Nelson family remains committed to the long-term viability of the mountain, and we will continue to explore available options to ensure Magic survives for generations to come.



I'm thinking not too many people here have any idea who the "Potenital buyer " was?


----------



## JoeB-Z (Sep 29, 2015)

So it seems that Tom Barker is reasonable and Rob Lyszczarz who is the other minority owner is holding any deal up. People do not seem to care much for Mr. Lyszczarz. Who is the buyer? Can any pressure be put Mr. Lyszczarz? Who is the buyer?





Wheeler said:


> I can't speak on behalf of management but will do so on behalf of my family, the Nelsons, who are the majority lien holders of the property. Anyone who has skied at Magic in recent years knows that it has great terrain and an amazingly loyal community but is sorely in need of an infusion of capital. Recognizing this, my family found a suitable buyer who was committed to investing in the mountain. Unfortunately, as everyone now knows, the deal fell through. Any questions regarding the transaction should be directed to either the seller or potential buyer for more information. The Nelson family remains committed to the long-term viability of the mountain, and we will continue to explore available options to ensure Magic survives for generations to come.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 30, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> So it seems that Tom Barker is reasonable and Rob Lyszczarz who is the other minority owner is holding any deal up. People do not seem to care much for Mr. Lyszczarz. Who is the buyer? Can any pressure be put Mr. Lyszczarz? Who is the buyer?
> 
> 
> 
> Bad conclusion - Rob Lyszczarz is the majority owner of the mountain and Tom Barker is a minority owner. Tom Barker does not want to sell the mountain and strongly resisted the sale. I heard that, in the end, he consented to the sale and then something happened. I suspect that Rob Lyszczarz pulled something again...


----------



## Do Work (Sep 30, 2015)

I'm eternally grateful for the Nelsons' dedication to the mountain.  Always have been and always will.  I do hope, however, that throughout all this we can just keep our eyes on the real prize- keeping Magic open.  Nothing and I mean NOTHING is more important than that.  I think just about everybody wanted this deal to go through but my simple and solitary wish is that we don't let our emotions run away with the overall value of the bigger picture and that is keeping the lifts spinning above all else.  Above who is in the office and above who holds the deed, the mortgage and who has what percentage.  Regimes come and go, but Magic needs to live on.  That's literally my last input on this whole debacle.  Everything else from me from here on out will be related to projects, skiing and stoke in general.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I'm eternally grateful for the Nelsons' dedication to the mountain.  Always have been and always will.  I do hope, however, that throughout all this we can just keep our eyes on the real prize- keeping Magic open.  Nothing and I mean NOTHING is more important than that.  I think just about everybody wanted this deal to go through but my simple and solitary wish is that we don't let our emotions run away with the overall value of the bigger picture and that is keeping the lifts spinning above all else.  Above who is in the office and above who holds the deed, the mortgage and who has what percentage.  Regimes come and go, but Magic needs to live on.  That's literally my last input on this whole debacle.  Everything else from me from here on out will be related to projects, skiing and stoke in general.



$5 says Do Work chimes in again on this subject. Any takers?


----------



## slatham (Sep 30, 2015)

I think Sorcerer got it right.

While I care to know what went down I don't think either party benefits from public dissemination of their side of the story. It is also likely there is a confidentiality agreement preventing this.

What really matters - what is the status of the mountain and plans for the upcoming winter? Clarifying this (unless its bad news) is in the best interest of the current owners and management as it would (hopefully) clear the worry for potential pass buyers. This I find perplexing from a rational business perspective. But then again this is Magic...........


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 30, 2015)

slatham said:


> What really matters - what is the status of the mountain and plans for the upcoming winter? Clarifying this (unless its bad news) is in the best interest of the current owners and management as it would (hopefully) clear the worry for potential pass buyers. This I find perplexing from a rational business perspective. But then again this is Magic...........



This.  Agree with this 100%.  We are still in the dark after a week.  This is unacceptable on so many levels. In the age of technology and the 24 hour news cycle, I think people expect certain things which are not getting delivered right now.


----------



## dlague (Sep 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> This.  Agree with this 100%.  We are still in the dark after a week.  This is unacceptable on so many levels. In the age of technology and the 24 hour news cycle, I think people expect certain things which are not getting delivered right now.



Yes transparency would be nice.  They should take a page out of Tenney's book.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> $5 says Do Work chimes in again on this subject. Any takers?





I don't see the point, personally.  We can stomp our feet as loud as we want but working ourselves up into a froth over the fact that nobody can really tell us anything until the details are solidified is simply akin to hating the sky for being above us.  Confidentiality agreements and developing details are just that- why people feel they should have a personal play-by-play breakdown daily is so far beyond me it's almost hilarious.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 30, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> So it seems that Tom Barker is reasonable and Rob Lyszczarz who is the other minority owner is holding any deal up. People do not seem to care much for Mr. Lyszczarz. Who is the buyer? Can any pressure be put Mr. Lyszczarz? Who is the buyer?



Not sure if the buyer can be revealed, but the Internet is a big place and if you don't like how Tom B and Rob L handled it, I would bet that you could find their contact info if you looked and express your displeasure. If you can't, PM me and I'll see what I can do about digging.


----------



## tumbler (Sep 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I don't see the point, personally.  We can stomp our feet as loud as we want but working ourselves up into a froth over the fact that nobody can really tell us anything until the details are solidified is simply akin to hating the sky for being above us.  Confidentiality agreements and developing details are just that- why people feel they should have a personal play-by-play breakdown daily is so far beyond me it's almost hilarious.



So correct on this.  People demanding answers like they are an investor or shareholder.  They are a struggling business and do not have to answer to any of you.  I understand the passion for the mountain but let it go, it is what it is.  Let your wallet do the talking and ski somewhere else then they make no money, close, and are forced to sell.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 30, 2015)

I think a lot of us fear that if they close it will be an uphill battle to get open again.  I know that when I ski elsewhere and tell people that I ski at Magic they usually ask if it is really still open or if you need to bring your own rope to self belay from the lift or some other smart-ass comment.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 30, 2015)

tumbler said:


> So correct on this.  People demanding answers like they are an investor or shareholder.  They are a struggling business and do not have to answer to any of you.  I understand the passion for the mountain but let it go, it is what it is.  Let your wallet do the talking and ski somewhere else then they make no money, close, and are forced to sell.



I think there are quite a few out there who are "shareholders", or did all of that money get returned.


----------



## Sorcerer (Sep 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I think there are quite a few out there who are "shareholders", or did all of that money get returned.



There are no shareholders out there. When the stockholder plan fell through, the people who had purchased shares had a choice- have the money returned or leave it as apart of the "magic Faithful Club" :you might call it a gift- not sure how many took it or how many left it.

That means there is no one to whom the current ownership or operator (minority owner) has to answer. They could be a bit more open on the plans for this season but, if you haven't noticed, there is an antique show at Magic this weekend and other than having it on their event calendar, they haven't said a thing. I think the lack of information is just due to the fact that there in no marketing/information manager and until someone is assigned.....


----------



## MMP (Sep 30, 2015)

Not sure who this do work guy thinks he is, but I need answers about the flagpoles before I spend one red cent.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 30, 2015)

MMP said:


> Not sure who this do work guy thinks he is, but I need answers about the flagpoles before I spend one red cent.




It's funny you mention that.  If more people showed up last weekend, that was actually on the project list and would have been handled.  No BS!


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 30, 2015)

MMP said:


> Not sure who this do work guy thinks he is, but I need answers about the flagpoles before I spend one red cent.



One trick pony


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Not sure if the buyer can be revealed, but the Internet is a big place and if you don't like how Tom B and Rob L handled it, I would bet that you could find their contact info if you looked and express your displeasure. If you can't, PM me and I'll see what I can do about digging.



Ok internet tough guy. I might write a letter to congress too.


----------



## skithetrees (Sep 30, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> There are no shareholders out there. When the stockholder plan fell through, the people who had purchased shares had a choice- have the money returned or leave it as apart of the "magic Faithful Club" :you might call it a gift- not sure how many took it or how many left it.
> 
> That means there is no one to whom the current ownership or operator (minority owner) has to answer. They could be a bit more open on the plans for this season but, if you haven't noticed, there is an antique show at Magic this weekend and other than having it on their event calendar, they haven't said a thing. I think the lack of information is just due to the fact that there in no marketing/information manager and until someone is assigned.....



P


----------



## PearlJam09 (Sep 30, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Ok internet tough guy. I might write a letter to congress too.



Nothing tough about me.  Just sitting here crocheting hats.  You can write to whomever you want.  Crayons are in the top drawer and I'm sure there's some construction paper around here somewhere.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 30, 2015)

Crocheting, crayons and construction paper...you really do not want to mess with PearlJam or his dangerous alliterations


----------



## MMP (Oct 1, 2015)

He bakes bread too.  Dude is hard fucking core.


----------



## doublediamond (Oct 1, 2015)

tumbler said:


> So correct on this.  People demanding answers like they are an investor or shareholder.  They are a struggling business and do not have to answer to any of you.  I understand the passion for the mountain but let it go, it is what it is.  Let your wallet do the talking and ski somewhere else then they make no money, close, and are forced to sell.



Wrong.

They want our hard-earned money in pass sales/ticket sales.  They answer to the public.  The customer is always right.


----------



## Freezingupnorth (Oct 1, 2015)

Right and wrong are subjective terms. Do they always get their way? Generally, they do if they piss and moan enough. If that doesn't work, than by all means let you wallet do the talking.


----------



## Magic (Oct 1, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I think there are quite a few out there who are "shareholders", or did all of that money get returned.



Funny with all the drama surrounding this purchase, no one has even brought up the fact that JS is still on grounds there. Don't think he is still not in the mix somehow. BTW, not one dime of all that money has been accounted for.


----------



## Do Work (Oct 1, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> Wrong.
> 
> They want our hard-earned money in pass sales/ticket sales.  They answer to the public.  The customer is always right.




Oh the time will come when they will open up to the public.  Until this deal either goes through or dies though, you aren't going to get much- not should you expect it.  I realize the internet instant gratification lifestyle of entitlement makes you feel like all parties involved should call you daily to give you the full story but that simply isn't the case.  

When the future is clear, statements will be released.  Working yourself up before then is just going to stress you out unnecessarily though.  I can't wait either but I'm trying to dial my expectation in with reality.  Trust me, it helps.


----------



## Do Work (Oct 1, 2015)

Magic said:


> Funny with all the drama surrounding this purchase, no one has even brought up the fact that JS is still on grounds there. Don't think he is still not in the mix somehow. BTW, not one dime of all that money has been accounted for.




Lol.  Yeah he is working at TimberQuest and helping with the race team.  Jim has had 0 involvement in the office since he was replaced.  Don't let me stop you from rocking a tinfoil hat though, it looks great on you!


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 1, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Oh the time will come when they will open up to the public.  Until this deal either goes through or dies though, you aren't going to get much- not should you expect it.  I realize the internet instant gratification lifestyle of entitlement makes you feel like all parties involved should call you daily to give you the full story but that simply isn't the case.
> 
> When the future is clear, statements will be released.  Working yourself up before then is just going to stress you out unnecessarily though.  I can't wait either but I'm trying to dial my expectation in with reality.  Trust me, it helps.



I think that for most people the problem with waiting is that many of the other local mountains have pass price increases on 10/15 and we have had complete silence so far.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 1, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Oh the time will come when they will open up to the public.  Until this deal either goes through or dies though, you aren't going to get much- not should you expect it.  I realize the internet instant gratification lifestyle of entitlement makes you feel like all parties involved should call you daily to give you the full story but that simply isn't the case.
> 
> When the future is clear, statements will be released.  Working yourself up before then is just going to stress you out unnecessarily though.  I can't wait either but I'm trying to dial my expectation in with reality.  Trust me, it helps.



I thought it was dead??? Is there still a chance it will happen?


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 1, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> I thought it was dead??? Is there still a chance it will happen?



64,000 dollar question right there.


----------



## MMP (Oct 1, 2015)

in one sense they announced the sale with great excitement, and then announced that the sale died in a whisper. It's like a page one indictment and a page 18 retraction. So while technically it isn't our business, they opened the door to the questions by including us in their plans (when they were positive).


----------



## slatham (Oct 1, 2015)

So strange. Tom Walsh has posted on FB pictures of chairs being put on the line of the Red Chair, presumably post a successful inspection. Meanwhile, there is a tent set up by the Black Chair where work is being done on the grips and to fix the "swing" issue. And yet nothing from Magic itself? And that lack of communication - per a FB user post - will result in one, 5 person family buying passes elsewhere unless news comes out before pre-season passes increase at other mountains. Where there is one, there are others. And Magic can't afford to lose even one 5 member family! And yet all we hear are crickets......


----------



## Sorcerer (Oct 1, 2015)

slatham said:


> So strange. Tom Walsh has posted on FB pictures of chairs being put on the line of the Red Chair, presumably post a successful inspection. Meanwhile, there is a tent set up by the Black Chair where work is being done on the grips and to fix the "swing" issue. And yet nothing from Magic itself? And that lack of communication - per a FB user post - will result in one, 5 person family buying passes elsewhere unless news comes out before pre-season passes increase at other mountains. Where there is one, there are others. And Magic can't afford to lose even one 5 member family! And yet all we hear are crickets......



So far the Red Chair passed the NDT test (chair integrity, I think it is). Other items have been completed but the final tests can't be done until the power to the chair is turned on later in October. Everything is expected to be ok based on current status. I think there haven't been any posts because some negotiations are still going on - a guess- or the person who posts is on vacation-not a guess.


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> So far the Red Chair passed the NDT test (chair integrity, I think it is). Other items have been completed but the final tests can't be done until the power to the chair is turned on later in October. Everything is expected to be ok based on current status. I think there haven't been any posts because some negotiations are still going on - a guess- or the person who posts is on vacation-not a guess.



Wait a minute here. You're telling me that the reason for complete radio silence on the part of management is because the only person in the world who creates posts for their Alpine Update, Facebook, twitter, etc is on vacation, and in this day and age, while on vacation, has no access to a telephone to tell someone else how to do it?  That seems like a reach even for you.  Nearly two-thirds of American adults have smartphones, and there are thousands of places with free wifi if you can't seem to get service.

One would think that if the current management is going to be operating this season that they would want to get information out about season passes before all of their customers buy elsewhere since prices are going up in the next 10-15 days.

Totally seems like the scene from My Cousin Vinny when he shows up to court in the purple suit.  "The whole store has the flu."


----------



## steamboat1 (Oct 1, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> I thought it was dead??? Is there still a chance it will happen?


----------



## Sorcerer (Oct 1, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Wait a minute here. You're telling me that the reason for complete radio silence on the part of management is because the only person in the world who creates posts for their Alpine Update, Facebook, twitter, etc is on vacation, and in this day and age, while on vacation, has no access to a telephone to tell someone else how to do it?  That seems like a reach even for you.  Nearly two-thirds of American adults have smartphones, and there are thousands of places with free wifi if you can't seem to get service.
> 
> One would think that if the current management is going to be operating this season that they would want to get information out about season passes before all of their customers buy elsewhere since prices are going up in the next 10-15 days.
> 
> Totally seems like the scene from My Cousin Vinny when he shows up to court in the purple suit.  "The whole store has the flu."




I gave 2 reasons and neither one is a reach. Although the outside operations people are fully staffed, the inside isn't. I think they are trying to save money to make snow (I know, if they don't get the people, they won't need snow). That is why I want the sale to happen. The mountain needs fresh money invested and some technocrats but in the meantime it needs to get ready for winter.


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## Sorcerer (Oct 2, 2015)

This was posted on ttyhe Magic Facebook page:
There have been some questions about the status of Magic and more specifically the Black Lift and the potential sale that didn't materialize. That said, the ownership that has owned Magic for over the last 10 years is still in place. I have done a bit of research and have done a lot of walking around and up to the top of Magic. I think the mountain is in as good shape for this time of year as it's been. All the beginner and intermediate trails (all that a mower can cut) and parts of some expert trails have already been cut. The pipe at the top of the chute on Wizard that was cracked last year has been replaced. There is a new rock work road up the mountain that was put in for the wireless towers but benefits the winter operations. The full operations crew has been working all summer.  
 Regarding the lift question, I am told that the State of Vermont checks all lifts continuously to assure absolute safe operations of the lifts. Magic’s operations crew works well with the inspector and recognizes that he brings lots of experience in maintaining lifts to the mountain. The lift inspector does not just show up for inspection day, he is at the mountain several times a month and any time something significant is being done.
 Both chairs have passed NDT tests (something that tests the integrity of the grips) in which 20% of the chairs are inspected each year. Operators tell me a specialist will be in next week to fix a seal on the Red Chair that has a small leak.  The Red chair is in the inspection process and it looks like it will be ready for completion in the middle of October when the power for the lifts it turned back on. Currently, a significant effort is underway to repair deficiencies in the Black Chair that resulted from the conversion from a double to a triple about 1990.  First there were some broken cotter pins which allowed some chairs to slip.  The problem was found to be caused by the rub rail on the base drive station.  When the chair was converted, nobody adjusted the rub rail for wider chairs.  That was fixed and the motion of the chairs stopped pulling on the cotter pins. Two years ago the lift inspector observed that some chairs were not swinging freely. A study revealed that when the chairs were converted to triples, they replaced bronze bearings in the head with polyimide greaseless bearings and removed the grease fitting.  With greaseless bearings no lubrication was being supplied to the chair head to grip flats as the polyimide became less “slippery”.  The solution, which has been discussed at length with the Professional Engineer supervising the repair, the lift inspector and  Magic operations, is to replace the polyimide bushing with sintered bushings and to install new grease fittings in all the chairs.  Magic’s operation crew is now well along in replacing the polyimide bushings with metal.  As this work is being done, the state inspector is overlooking the repair.    
 It looks like the mountain will be ready to open as usual with both the Red and Black chairs running.


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## doublediamond (Oct 2, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> from the conversion from a double to a triple about 1990.



1985

And how can a minority owner hold up a sale? If there's two people, the majority owner has all the power.


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## Sorcerer (Oct 2, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> 1985
> 
> And how can a minority owner hold up a sale? If there's two people, the majority owner has all the power.




Because the purchasers want all or nothing - nothing like buying most of something and letting the minority owner benefit from the investment while doing and  investing nothing additional

1985 sounds right :wink:


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## Harvey (Oct 2, 2015)

I believe a minority owner can hold up a sale.


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## doublediamond (Oct 2, 2015)

It was my understanding companies vote based on share ownership.  So in a 2-person ownership group, the majority owner basically gets their way.


----------



## Sorcerer (Oct 2, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> It was my understanding companies vote based on share ownership.  So in a 2-person ownership group, the majority owner basically gets their way.



I guess you don't understand ownership. I think you are talking about shareholders,


----------



## Harvey (Oct 2, 2015)

Buyers doing due diligence will often talk to all owners and top level employees. If they get the impression the product is worth less than the asking price that can affect their offer and the majority owners willingness to sell.

This is only one example of a minority owners influence.


----------



## slatham (Oct 2, 2015)

Pretty clear to me that while the minority owner might have resisted the sale, the final "no go" was from the majority owner. 

Again, very confused about all the good work being done yet nothing from management to send out the word and generate pass sales and positive buzz. As I think back over the years, usually there was a lot of talk and not as much action. Now the opposite. Go figure.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 6, 2015)

Apparently we all missed an Alpine Update back in August that explains the whole situation.


----------



## billski (Oct 6, 2015)

Tom Walsh, who owns a condo on the mountain was the one to report on FB the information posted by Sorcerer (!)   Tom is very fair on his observations and very up to date on what is going on.   He made a commitment buying a condo there and I don't see him leaving anytime soon.   I see Tom once or twice a year.    Based on his report, there is no reason to dispute whether the resort will open or not.  They would not have invested so much work into the lifts if they did not plan on opening.


----------



## makimono (Oct 6, 2015)

Can't wait to get up there Saturday and help clear out some shots! 

I guess in the end there's no level of fucked-up that "Magicment" can achieve that will make me ski Stratton instead...but I'm sure they'll keep trying.


----------



## billski (Oct 6, 2015)

Tom Walsh, who owns a condo on the mountain was the one to report on FB the information posted by Sorcerer (!)   Tom is very fair on his observations and very up to date on what is going on.   He made a commitment buying a condo there and I don't see him leaving anytime soon.   I see Tom once or twice a year.    Based on his report, there is no reason to dispute whether the resort will open or not.  They would not have invested so much work into the lifts if they did not plan on opening.   

I'm sure having two operating lifts makes it much more attractive to sell , but for this season, I'm not so worried.


----------



## billski (Oct 6, 2015)

slatham said:


> Again, very confused about all the good work being done yet nothing from management to send out the word and generate pass sales and positive buzz. As I think back over the years, usually there was a lot of talk and not as much action. Now the opposite. Go figure.


  Magic's marketing has been sub-par for years quite frankly.  They could do a lot more, even with limited resources if they hired the right marketing person.  Marketing is a lot more than a web page, Facebook and an appearance at the ski show.  Even though I've given them my email address on countless occasions, I can't think of the last time I've gotten an email from them.


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 6, 2015)

billski said:


> Magic's marketing has been sub-par for years quite frankly.  They could do a lot more, even with limited resources if they hired the right marketing person.  Marketing is a lot more than a web page, Facebook and an appearance at the ski show.  Even though I've given them my email address on countless occasions, I can't think of the last time I've gotten an email from them.



They were doing well on Instagram a month ago. Consistent posting habits, increased follower base.  Fell off recently so who knows what's going on up there. Typical shenanigans.


----------



## slatham (Oct 6, 2015)

Hummmm.....I keep a pretty close eye on the Alpine Update (as do others) and I do not recall seeing that so will call foul on the 8/31/15 date stamp. I use to automatically get an email every time there was an Alpine Update but that has not occurred of late.

I too am encourage by what Tom Walsh wrote and the pictures he posted. I look forward to seeing some of this activity, and hopefully hearing directly from Tom Baker, this Saturday at the volunteer day. Will report back.

Makimono, Do Work, I look forward to seeing you guys Saturday. Any other AZ'ers going?


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 6, 2015)

Yeah. That date is way wrong.  Guessing someone needs computer lessons or to pay more attention to detail. Probably both.


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## prsboogie (Oct 6, 2015)

https://www.magicmtn.com/order.php


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 6, 2015)

Make sure you look at the price before you check out....


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 6, 2015)

Also, one would think that if they were going to start selling passes, they might announce via social media, yet we are still at radio silence.


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## billski (Oct 6, 2015)

marketing, marketing, marketing wherefore art thou marketing?


----------



## doublediamond (Oct 6, 2015)

WTF is an "Insustrial" Season Pass.


----------



## billski (Oct 6, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> WTF is an "Insustrial" Season Pass.


Industrial - you get to ride the bullwheel


----------



## mriceyman (Oct 6, 2015)

billski said:


> Industrial - you get to ride the bullwheel



Lol


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## steamboat1 (Oct 6, 2015)

doublediamond said:


> WTF is an "Insustrial" Season Pass.


Flame resistant


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2015)

This is what I see on their pass page:



> Milatary/Indstry



http://www.magicmtn.com/seasonpass.php

Ugh.  Spelling is so underrated I guess.


----------



## boofenstien (Oct 7, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> This is what I see on their pass page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dunno, it looks cheap but Eisenhower warned about these types of season passes.


----------



## makimono (Oct 7, 2015)

It's a rough finish, like the black chair or the carpet in the lodge, perfect spelling would look almost out of place :dunce:



boofenstien said:


> I dunno, it looks cheap but Eisenhower warned about these types of season passes.



If only JFK skied...


----------



## billski (Oct 7, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> This is what I see on their pass page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man, no marketeer worth wasting a brew on would ever think to publicize that those in the "industry" get a break.   You just don't do that.  It pisses off the peons.


----------



## steamboat1 (Oct 7, 2015)

billski said:


> Man, no marketeer worth wasting a brew on would ever think to publicize that those in the "industry" get a break.   You just don't do that.  It pisses off the peons.



Most areas offer & advertise discounts to local merchants. Some also offer discounts to local county residents (eg. Stowe LAWA pass).


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2015)

Stowe used to sell incredibly cheap midweek passes if you worked for a Stowe Area Association business.  My pass was $250 when I lived in town.  As recent as 2005 the first Thursday of every month they offered $10 lift tickets for any VT hospitality industry worker.  You just needed to bring a recent pay stub.


----------



## slatham (Oct 8, 2015)

From front page of web site:

"We have turned on Season Pass sales. The early season prices will be in effect until the end of Friday October 16th. Work on both chairs is ongoing and I fully expect them to be ready for opening day. There is a volunteer day next Saturday, October 10th. Come on out and see the progress. There will be further good news later this week. We look forward to a great season this year!"


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 8, 2015)

Can they please pay someone to make the website look semi professional? All that dead space next to the photo looks awful and the empty black bar across the middle of it should have something in it.  I would also love to see the use of spell check and grammar check when they are updating.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 8, 2015)

Also, they still have that New Years Day snow report up. Maybe something more current would be nice.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Oct 8, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Also, they still have that New Years Day snow report up. Maybe something more current would be nice.



I think it's a highlight reel showcasing the best of the season. Amazing report.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 8, 2015)

The weather bit with Jay never gets old...


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 8, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I think it's a highlight reel showcasing the best of the season. Amazing report.





JamaicaMan said:


> The weather bit with Jay never gets old...



I love it when a plan comes together.


----------



## jrmagic (Oct 8, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> I think it's a highlight reel showcasing the best of the season. Amazing report.



Agreed! That might be my all time favorite report on magic's sire lol. As for non magic site reports it's hard to top dowork's tittyballs report from a huge midweek storm a couple of years back.


----------



## Do Work (Oct 9, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Agreed! That might be my all time favorite report on magic's sire lol. As for non magic site reports it's hard to top dowork's tittyballs report from a huge midweek storm a couple of years back.





Ah yes, Big Wednesday.  Remember it well.  The tittyballin' was at an all-time high mark for sure.


----------



## prsboogie (Oct 9, 2015)




----------



## prsboogie (Oct 9, 2015)

https://m.facebook.com/skimagicvt/posts/10153011943817038


----------



## slatham (Oct 11, 2015)

As promised, a post-volunteer day update.

Upon arrival it was good to see Tom Barker there welcoming everyone and answering questions. Focus was the work on Red and Black. Details can be found on Tom Walsh's FaceBook post. But Tom B seems to have a firm grasp on what needs to be done and work on both lifts is in process and the plan is to have both for opening day.

The snowmaking pipe issue on upper Wizard ("Wizard Chute") has been fixed (AZ's very own Do Work, well, doing the work!). I don't think there were other snowmaking issues this past winter but maybe Do Work or others in the know can comment.

All the trails that can be mowed by machine have been mowed. There was a crew of "Mountain Goats" there on Saturday to weed whack the steeps that machines cannot safely mow. My understanding is that all the trails will be cut and ready for opening day.

There was a very solid volunteer crew (plus the Goats) so lots of activity. Hike up, clear on way down. Got a nice look at the work from the first volunteer day - a sweet intermediate/advanced intermediate glade that is brand new and likely to be a quick favorite. Work this weekend was widening and clearing several existing glades. 

Unfortunately had to bail and miss burgers and beers and later discussion on the mountain. Maybe Do Work, Rusty Groomer, Makimono or the other AR'ers that we were there can chime in.

On my way out I met Emily, the office manager. She was asking whether anyone in the crew was taking pictures as she wanted to post them on FB. Given the subsequent posts and pics, I think she will be updating FB so expect more posts and communication from Magic going forward.

It was nice to be on the mountain with a great group, excellent fall weather, and beautiful foliage. Looking forward to seeing those people in the woods again, but with a solid snow pack on the ground!

THINK SNOW!!!!


----------



## Harvey (Oct 11, 2015)

Thanks for the update. Appreciate it.


----------



## Do Work (Oct 12, 2015)

Yeah things are definitely looking up.  The chairs are looking great, the trails are either mowed, 'whacked or lined up to be and the trees have literally never been cleaner.  We've got new stuff, new editions to old stuff and lots of new faces have been coming out to help which is awesome.  I am flying high and can't even tell you guys how excited I am to kick off the season.  It's going to be a great one!


----------



## mriceyman (Oct 12, 2015)

2 lifts this season???


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## Do Work (Oct 12, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> 2 lifts this season???





I have literally said this probably a hundred times so far in this thread but I guess I'll say it again- Yes, both chairs will be functional this season.  Read:  THE RED CHAIR AND THE BLACK CHAIR WILL BOTH RUN FOR THE 15/16 SEASON.


----------



## gmcunni (Oct 12, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I have literally said this probably a hundred times so far in this thread but I guess I'll say it again- Yes, both chairs will be functional this season.  Read:  THE RED CHAIR AND THE BLACK CHAIR WILL BOTH RUN FOR THE 15/16 SEASON.



simultaneously?


----------



## mriceyman (Oct 12, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I have literally said this probably a hundred times so far in this thread but I guess I'll say it again- Yes, both chairs will be functional this season.  Read:  THE RED CHAIR AND THE BLACK CHAIR WILL BOTH RUN FOR THE 15/16 SEASON.



No disresect but we have heard 2 lifts in the past only to find out that wouldn't  be the case. Im still going to take it as a illl believe it when i see it but i hope it happens. 


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----------



## yeggous (Oct 12, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> No disresect but we have heard 2 lifts in the past only to find out that wouldn't  be the case. Im still going to take it as a illl believe it when i see it but i hope it happens.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Magic skiers seem to occupy a spectrum ranging from battered wives to full blown Stockholm syndrome. This thread really exemplifies that.


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----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 12, 2015)

yeggous said:


> Magic skiers seem to occupy a spectrum ranging from battered wives to full blown Stockholm syndrome. This thread really exemplifies that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Weekly group therapy at the BLT helps, but the cure-all is found in Magic's woods


----------



## Brewbeer (Oct 12, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> simultaneously?



Lol !  Seriously, hoping they pull it together and we get some good snow.   Can't wait to get back in 
<--------these woods !


----------



## slatham (Oct 12, 2015)

Not to sound like "a battered wife" or suffering from "full blown Stockholm syndrome" I think the emotion you are hearing from Do Work is because, unlike most on this thread, he knows what he is talking about because he is in the weeds on the issues and their solutions, and often provides his labor and expertise to solve the problem. He has also heard the past "claims" of being able to have this lift or that lift available only to know too well it was BS. But now he knows that having both lifts is on a clear, attainable path. Sure, these are old lifts and shit happens. But this isn't wishful thinking. 

And yes, SIMULTANEOUSLY! As in, both lifts running at the same time and loading people onto chairs and taking them to the top of the mountain.


----------



## makimono (Oct 12, 2015)

HUGE


----------



## Tin (Oct 12, 2015)

Liking all the FB posts and communication. Maybe they are listening.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 12, 2015)

There's not much substance in them though and we still have no idea what the "further good news" is.  While I agree that the increased activity on FB is a good thing, I'm still skeptical about Tom's ability to effectively manage the mountain, given how well last year went and I'm sure their lack of pre season funding due to decreased pass sales.


----------



## Magic (Oct 13, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> There's not much substance in them though and we still have no idea what the "further good news" is.  While I agree that the increased activity on FB is a good thing, I'm still skeptical about Tom's ability to effectively manage the mountain, given how well last year went and I'm sure their lack of pre season funding due to decreased pass sales.



PJ, lets not forget that if Tom didn't step up last year the mountain would not have opened at all. We know it wasn't the best but he was left with a shitload of financial issues and other legal nightmares. My theory is since the "minority shareholder" is not budging on the sale, they want to prove that they can make a go of it without new owners. Let's hope my theory is correct and it will be a banner year for us all !


----------



## steamboat1 (Oct 13, 2015)

Dream a little dream of me.


----------



## Do Work (Oct 14, 2015)

Hey what really matters is that the mountain looks better than it ever has.  I think a lot of people will be surprised and pleased when the news of the actual "other good news" comes out too.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 14, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Hey what really matters is that the mountain looks better than it ever has.  I think a lot of people will be surprised and pleased when the news of the actual "other good news" comes out too.



Tom Barker has hired people to run the mountain and is going to be a silent partner?!?  They're reopening talks for selling!?!  Kapitan is retiring?!?  The Magic pass will have reciprocity at Jackson Hole and Snowbird?!?  There is going to be a terrain park this year and it is going to be maintained?!? A boy can dream, can't he?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Oct 14, 2015)

Lighted terrain park.


----------



## Do Work (Oct 14, 2015)

I'm just jacked up for this last work weekend and Ullrfest.  The stoke cup runneth over this weekend!


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 15, 2015)

Nearly at the end of week #2 and still no "further good news."  Stockholm syndrome setting in.  I can't stand the BS anymore, but I can't leave either.  See you all at the volunteer day.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Oct 15, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I can't stand the BS anymore, but I can't leave either.



New Magic slogan.


----------



## slatham (Oct 15, 2015)

All I can say is I am jealous of it possibly snowing during this weekends volunteer day! Wish I could be there but last weekend was great.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 15, 2015)

Magic said:


> PJ, lets not forget that if Tom didn't step up last year the mountain would not have opened at all. We know it wasn't the best but he was left with a shitload of financial issues and other legal nightmares. My theory is since the "minority shareholder" is not budging on the sale, they want to prove that they can make a go of it without new owners. Let's hope my theory is correct and it will be a banner year for us all !



Tom may have stepped up financially last year, but his business and management practices were atrocious.  We can hope for a banner year, but seeing the issues from last year that aren't getting resolved has left me disillusioned and pessimistic at best.  Our rental house, which for the past several years had been exclusively Magic pass holders now has 6/8 people with alternate passes and plans.  We all want to ski there, we love the place and the people, but it is hard to have blind faith in management who drops the ball on all fronts on a regular basis.


----------



## Magic (Oct 15, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Tom may have stepped up financially last year, but his business and management practices were atrocious.  We can hope for a banner year, but seeing the issues from last year that aren't getting resolved has left me disillusioned and pessimistic at best.  Our rental house, which for the past several years had been exclusively Magic pass holders now has 6/8 people with alternate passes and plans.  We all want to ski there, we love the place and the people, but it is hard to have blind faith in management who drops the ball on all fronts on a regular basis.



Sad but true


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 15, 2015)

Did anyone see the FB update?  I'm seriously concerned that TB is either extremely wasted or is possibly having a stroke....


----------



## Tin (Oct 15, 2015)

Having too much fun at Upper Pass?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 15, 2015)

Who is this Matt Cote fellow they reference? Perhaps he is the Norse god?


----------



## Do Work (Oct 16, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Who is this Matt Cote fellow they reference? Perhaps he is the Norse god?




I heard he's a terrible skier.


----------



## slatham (Oct 16, 2015)

> Who is this Matt Cote fellow they reference? Perhaps he is the Norse god?



He wishes....but apparently he raises pigs for ritual sacrifice, so I guess not to be messed with? Hope it works! 

THINK SNOW!


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## prsboogie (Oct 16, 2015)

From the FB page

Attention all Magic employees: Hope all had a great summer but it's time to think snow and getting back to the mountain. Please call the office at 802-825-5645 so we can set up a time to go over paperwork and such. There a variety of positions open so get the word out that we are hiring. Magic has a New Altitude and we hope to hear from you soon. Emily


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 16, 2015)

What the fuck is a wit list?  If this was just one instance of a typo I don't think I'd care, but it is just another entry on the list of things that Magic just can't seem to do right...


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## Tin (Oct 16, 2015)

New altitude...I knew they invested but that is a big change. Base at 2000' with a summit at 4000'?

I can't make it up this weekend due to a nasty cold but I will donate a "Hooked On Phonics" kit.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 16, 2015)

And they apparently have a new phone number?


----------



## jrmagic (Oct 16, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> And they apparently have a new phone number?



Lol won't be too many employees getting through on that number!


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 16, 2015)

"Show me a man who can't be bothered to do the little things, and I'll show you a man who can't be trusted to do the big things."


----------



## Magic (Oct 19, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> "Show me a man who can't be bothered to do the little things, and I'll show you a man who can't be trusted to do the big things."



Vince writes really well and has marketed the hell out of The Upper Pass. Perhaps he could moonlight ?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 19, 2015)

They need someone ASAP.  Emily is in WAY over her head and it is extremely frustrating to watch.  I mean, how many people have ever had their phone autocorrect Ullr to Ulkr?  Seriously, what the fuck?  As an organization, they need to hold themselves to a higher standard if they want to attract guests this winter.


----------



## steamboat1 (Oct 19, 2015)

...


----------



## slatham (Oct 21, 2015)

Steamboat, have to admit that made me laugh. Nothing personal, but I hope you don't have reason to use it again.

I will note that Magic updated their webs site with news of the upcoming Londonderry Halloween event. New pictures, a brief blurb (no misspellings!) and a link that worked!


----------



## Sorcerer (Oct 21, 2015)

slatham said:


> From front page of web site:
> 
> "We have turned on Season Pass sales. The early season prices will be in effect until the end of Friday October 16th. Work on both chairs is ongoing and I fully expect them to be ready for opening day. There is a volunteer day next Saturday, October 10th. Come on out and see the progress.* There will be further good news later this week*. We look forward to a great season this year!"



Has there been any good news announced? It's been almost 2 weeks since this was posted.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 21, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> Has there been any good news announced? It's been almost 2 weeks since this was posted.



Rumor is that it has something to do with flagpoles.


----------



## yeggous (Oct 21, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Rumor is that it has something to do with flagpoles.



Ha! That will be the day! I am just a neutral observer but it seems to me that they are unaware that they even have flagpoles.


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## RustyGroomer (Oct 22, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> Has there been any good news announced? It's been almost 2 weeks since this was posted.



Cubs WIN!!  Oh' wait.  wit.  Nevermind.


----------



## slatham (Oct 22, 2015)

Ha, if the Mets can get to the World Series, then Magic can get two chairs running!


----------



## mriceyman (Oct 22, 2015)

slatham said:


> Ha, if the Mets can get to the World Series, then Magic can get two chairs running!



Hahaha


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## Tin (Oct 22, 2015)

JRMagic has been running around the Lower East Side since Midnight only wearing only his black Mets while carrying a beer funnel and 30 rack of Bud.


----------



## jrmagic (Oct 22, 2015)

Tin said:


> JRMagic has been running around the Lower East Side since Midnight only wearing only his black Mets while carrying a beer funnel and 30 rack of Bud.



Ohhh damn... well althoughI'm a huge Mets fan. The running around the lower east side underdressed (which noone wants to see lol) business is cause I saw that fixing the flags caught management's attention and was on the work list!!


----------



## yeggous (Oct 23, 2015)

The Upper Pass Lodge is running a Living Social deal again. Code 20OFF gets an additional discount by midnight tonight.

http://www.livingsocial.com/deals/1...hare-post-purchase&rpi=201370806&rui=88527699


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----------



## Tin (Oct 25, 2015)

yeggous said:


> The Upper Pass Lodge is running a Living Social deal again. Code 20OFF gets an additional discount by midnight tonight.
> 
> http://www.livingsocial.com/deals/1...hare-post-purchase&rpi=201370806&rui=88527699
> 
> ...


 
Thanks! Just looked into it and it was actually cheap and easier to schedule with hotels.com. $76 a night the Sunday to Tuesday before Christmas. I figure if Magic doesn't have snow we will head to Pico. They only had one room left in that window. Hope people are looking at availability before purchasing instead of planning on that holiday window.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 26, 2015)

Going on week 3 with no big announcement. In a 24 hour news cycle, with twitter, FB, instagram, etc  this is completely unacceptable. What a shitshow.


----------



## xwhaler (Oct 27, 2015)

Website updated. Both chairs available and running for opening day is very good news.
Season passes available at Fall Prices until 12/1


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 27, 2015)

"I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet" - Super Troopers


----------



## Tin (Oct 27, 2015)

Are they not planning on opening for Christmas week until 12/26? The holiday white-out pass does not start until then. Do they not realize many schools begin the holiday break on 12/21 and are off that week?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 27, 2015)

Where are you guys seeing this information?


----------



## Tin (Oct 27, 2015)

http://www.magicmtn.com/holiday_white_out_pass.php

It lists Magic's holiday periods. The first one does not start until 12/26. Since Thursday is Christmas Eve, Friday is Christmas, it doesn't look like they are opening until the Saturday after.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 27, 2015)

Who knows when they'll open. Pray for snow as I'm guessing the snowmaking budget is small this year.


----------



## slatham (Oct 27, 2015)

Tin, I think you're jumping to conclusions. Holiday pricing usually doesn't start until 26th because most people are still home for Christmas and the mountains are relatively empty. Given snow I would expect Magic to be open on Thursday 24th.


----------



## Tin (Oct 27, 2015)

I hope I am. Should be a good business week for them.


----------



## Newpylong (Oct 27, 2015)

Tin said:


> Are they not planning on opening for Christmas week until 12/26? The holiday white-out pass does not start until then. Do they not realize many schools begin the holiday break on 12/21 and are off that week?



It depends on where their school revenue comes from. If it comes from programs where kids are signed up ahead of time as long as they meet their obligation (whether that's 12/26 or 12/24, whatever) then they won't lose much. If they get a lot of it just in walk ups then it might hurt them.


----------



## Magic (Oct 27, 2015)

Most schools other than college begin holiday the 24th. In the past they wanted to "preserve the snow" for after Xmas. Pray for a dump and go with the flow...


----------



## Tin (Oct 27, 2015)

Magic said:


> Most schools other than college begin holiday the 24th. In the past they wanted to "preserve the snow" for after Xmas. Pray for a dump and go with the flow...



Almost all of RI and many in CT have all Christmas week off.


----------



## slatham (Oct 27, 2015)

Tin, I may be mistaken. I have looked again at the Whiteout Pass and I agree that since it starts on the 26th it implies they aren't open 24&25. I do recall in prior years they were not open those days, though the snow was less than stellar so that might have been a factor. But my point still stands - the 24&25th are very lightly travelled, which is why most areas sell normal tickets on those days and the "Holiday" period starts on the 26th (Stratton and Bromley for instance). So it would not shock me that Magic doesn't open (actually "re-open" as we all hope they are open weekend of 12/19-20) until Saturday the 26th.

With regard to vacations, my kids school had the full week off last year leading into Christmas due to Christmas falling on a Thursday. This year, however, with Christmas on Friday, schools have off on Thursday and Friday, not the whole week. Of course they do have off the following week.


----------



## mriceyman (Oct 27, 2015)

2 lifts is major


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## Do Work (Oct 28, 2015)

They will absolutely try to open for XMas week.  I know I'll be there, that's for sure.  I love it up there around then and so does the family.  They absolutely know that holidays and opening early are a big deal for income too, so I am not panicking that's for sure.


----------



## Magic (Oct 28, 2015)

Do Work said:


> They will absolutely try to open for XMas week.  I know I'll be there, that's for sure.  I love it up there around then and so does the family.  They absolutely know that holidays and opening early are a big deal for income too, so I am not panicking that's for sure.



We have been there when it was one way down the mountain for the holiday week. We make the best of it and hang with our friends in the BLT. I just hope they "advertise" their music a little better. Last year an awesome band was there and no one knew they were coming. What a waste....


----------



## PearlJam09 (Oct 28, 2015)

I'm certain that given the temps they will work toward trick to showoff, but I wouldn't expect anything for the next 2 months or so.  They really need to advertise EVERYTHING better........  We still don't know what the big announcement is or what the plans for the season are, like a projected opening date.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 28, 2015)

It's a ski area. It's selling season passes. It will be open by Christmas week and maybe earlier if mother-nature cooperates. That's pretty basic.

Barker said both lifts will be inspected and approved by Thanksgiving. That's a key marker to deliver on and Travis is working hard on that front.

If Barker gets this guy McLaughlin to throw money at his operating company then there should be resources to blow snow on multiple trails and hopefully fix the leaking roof from last season which has now destroyed the ceiling in the cafeteria area in the lodge due to neglect.


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## PearlJam09 (Oct 28, 2015)

So December 19th or December 25th?  I hope they look at the soft spots in the floor too...


----------



## BabyGuinness (Oct 28, 2015)

The intent is for the official opening weekend to be 12/19 & 12/20. Then re-open daily 12/26 - 1/3/16 for the holiday week. If weather allows there is a possibility of opening 12/12 & 12/13.


----------



## jrmagic (Oct 28, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Going on week 3 with no big announcement. In a 24 hour news cycle, with twitter, FB, instagram, etc  this is completely unacceptable. What a shitshow.



Well I sure hope McLaughlin isn't the big news


----------



## slatham (Oct 28, 2015)

jrmagic, not familiar with "McLaughlin" but based on your comment I guess I can assume he's not going to fork over a couple million for necessary upgrades?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 30, 2015)

Beautiful day for woodworking class 




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----------



## slatham (Oct 30, 2015)

Well that is down right beautiful. Could only be better with a couple feet of pow pow. Thanks for posting. Seems like the Mountian is in good shape. Interested to know the status of the lifts. 

THINK SNOW!!!!!!!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 31, 2015)

slatham said:


> Interested to know the status of the lifts.
> 
> THINK SNOW!!!!!!!



Everything seems to be progressing well on the lift(s) front


----------



## reefer (Oct 31, 2015)

Thanks for the pics and updates! Soon!


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 1, 2015)

http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php


----------



## slatham (Nov 2, 2015)

Good deal - and I didn't see any misspellings on the Update or Facebook! Just waiting for the update that says the lifts have passed inspection!


----------



## ScottySkis (Nov 2, 2015)

slatham said:


> Good deal - and I didn't see any misspellings on the Update or Facebook! Just waiting for the update that says the lifts have passed inspection!



Because I don't work their.


----------



## Magic (Nov 2, 2015)

So who is Shane Sullivan, Director of marketing? Any relation to the other Sullivan? Maybe he can take down that horrible picture of the lodge on their homepage.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Nov 2, 2015)

He also should take down the link to a nearly year old blogspot posting by Tom Barker about all the great progress on the Black chair last year. Given what happened and the current assurances it is not helpful.


----------



## Sorcerer (Nov 2, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> Because I don't work their.



Duh.....


----------



## billski (Nov 2, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> Because I don't work their.


  But there are misspellings on AZ.  Go Figure...


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 2, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> Because I don't work their.



Be thankful you don't. Personally I think you'd be a better spokes person for the mountain than these other a-holes


----------



## billski (Nov 2, 2015)

I notice Magic is taking advantage of liftopia's 3-level lift ticket 1) good only for that day, 2) good for that day plus one change, 3) good for any day.  Prices increase with flexibility.   Not many places used this setup last year.  Nice to see magic dabbling with it.  Might bring in more folks.


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 2, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Be thankful you don't. Personally I think you'd be a better spokes person for the mountain than these other a-holes



Rhumer Has IT Platty has an opening for Scotty.


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 3, 2015)

Works cheap too. Perfect for both areas


----------



## PearlJam09 (Nov 4, 2015)

Those who know me know that I’m a huge supporter of Magic, however I don’t stand for bullshit and I want to know why things are the way they are.  Yesterday, I posted this comment in response to Magic’s Facebook post that they had gotten two new Polaris Ranger ATVs (at a cost of almost $25K) "Since it appears that Magic has money to spend on ATVs that may only see a few weeks of use before the crew is on snowmobiles full time, can we expect that there is enough money in the budget to fix the lodge up, make snow on several trails prior to opening, and provide a terrain park this season?  What else do you guys have up your sleeve?"  As of this morning, I’ve been blocked from commenting on their posts and all of my previous comments have been removed.  

I’m a firm believer in freedom of speech and freedom of information, and this is far from the worst thing I posted on their wall.  I feel that if someone is openly criticizing your business, rather than censoring them and trying to cover it up, a business should meet that opportunity head on by responding with all of the great things that they are planning for the season.  Even a bullshit response along the lines of “Don’t fret, we have the funds to take care of everything” would have been better than trying to cover something up.  Given everything that has gone on this summer, I believe that more information and more transparency would benefit the ownership.  I know that Magic isn’t a big mountain with a social media team, but PLEASE take cues from other, more successful mountains in the area (like Killington).

I was totally willing to give this Shane kid a chance, since he appears to understand how to use a spell checker, but our new “Director of Sales and Marketing” has definitely started out on the wrong foot with me, and I’m not one to easily forgive or forget, and anyone who has been in the lodge knows that I’m not one to be silenced either. 

I still believe that Magic has the best skiing in southern Vermont; however I don’t believe that the current management has a clue on how to operate a ski area while keeping the customers best interests and the sustainability of the ski area at heart. I have heard that they’ve hired a new head of Ski School and a new Patrol director which are huge steps forward, and I’m excited to see what that brings us, both as a skier and as the coach of the frequently harassed Freeride Team.

I’m certain that not all of the people who will read this will agree with my statements or my actions; however I felt the need to put this out there.


----------



## Tin (Nov 4, 2015)

I was wondering why they were bought as well. Seems like a waste but who knows...


----------



## prsboogie (Nov 4, 2015)

They edited their original post

Yesterday at 11:12am

Yesterday our 2 new Polaris Rangers arrived on the mountain to help our Operations Crew get around. These machines will be hard at work until the snow flies getting ready for snow.

53 minutes ago

Yesterday our 2 new Polaris Rangers arrived on the mountain to help our Operations Crew get around. These machines will be hard at work until the snow flies and then we'll put tracks on them to help get our snow guns up the mountain.


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## Smellytele (Nov 4, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I still believe that Magic has the best skiing in southern Vermont; however I don’t believe that the current management has a clue on how to operate a ski area while keeping the customers best interests and the sustainability of the ski area at heart. I have heard that they’ve hired a new head of Ski School and a new Patrol director which are huge steps forward, and I’m excited to see what that brings us, both as a skier and as the coach of the frequently harassed Freeride Team.
> 
> I’m certain that not all of the people who will read this will agree with my statements or my actions; however I felt the need to put this out there.



Does the mountain harass the Freeride Team? Not questioning your statement just trying to get more info on it.


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## PearlJam09 (Nov 4, 2015)

Former patrol director did.  Happy to see him gone.


----------



## wtcobb (Nov 4, 2015)

The FB post did say they'll put tracks on the ATVs and use them to bring snow guns up the mountain... they can be 4-season vehicles.

EDIT: Just saw the post edit as mentioned.


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## Newpylong (Nov 4, 2015)

Not that I am a regular but I also was puzzled when I saw the purchase. Did Mountain Ops have a lot of trouble getting around the hill last year? If you have a good mechanic snowmobiles are cheap...

$25K is a new 600 gpm water pump...


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## slatham (Nov 4, 2015)

I wondered the same and was going to ask a similar question. Thier edit of the post and the fact that these machines can be used during winter makes more sense. But - fair warning I am going into arm chair ski area owner mode - were these higher priority than say 8 portable hdk high effieciency guns? Or pipe repairs? Etc? And I assume the money for the lifts is put aside? 

But what I really hope is that there is some money available (somehow) to buy these machines and do many of the other needed improvements. The most recent post of "lodge repairs" is good news, as is the teaser of more good news to come. Just wish I knew more of  what was going on.

Finally, I find it very disappointing that they would cut someone off from FB due to that post. It was a legitimate question.


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## marcski (Nov 4, 2015)

Platty's MGT would most definitely never buy 2 NEW machines like that. They scour the market and find used deals on practically everything and fix things in house. It is a much better business model for smaller ski areas.


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## drjeff (Nov 4, 2015)

There is a Polaris dealer on route 100 in South Londonderry not too far South of the route 11 junction.  Wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of local courtesy on a deal on their new ATV's.

I'm guessing also the the ops folks at Magic will find those much more reliable and also fuel efficient than using a cat to move multiple pieces of snowmaking eqipment around, do some plowing, bring equipment such as chain saws, welding equipment or torches for snowmaking uses up and down the mountain as well.

Lastly, maybe it is a bit of an aggressive move on the part of the new ownership, but maybe that is also a good sign that the status quo that got them in trouble, won't be continued moving forward??  Time will tell......


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## PearlJam09 (Nov 4, 2015)

drjeff said:


> There is a Polaris dealer on route 100 in South Londonderry not too far South of the route 11 junction.  Wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of local courtesy on a deal on their new ATV's.
> 
> I'm guessing also the the ops folks at Magic will find those much more reliable and also fuel efficient than using a cat to move multiple pieces of snowmaking eqipment around, do some plowing, bring equipment such as chain saws, welding equipment or torches for snowmaking uses up and down the mountain as well.
> 
> Lastly, maybe it is a bit of an aggressive move on the part of the new ownership, but maybe that is also a good sign that the status quo that got them in trouble, won't be continued moving forward??  Time will tell......



There is no new ownership. The deal fell through.


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## drjeff (Nov 4, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> There is no new ownership. The deal fell through.



My bad, I hadn't kept up with the last 10 pages or so of this thread, and was in correct in making the assumption that what not too long ago seemed like it was going to be a done deal, happened.

Let's hope then that the existing crew can learn from past "mistakes" and take Magic in a new, positive direction that finds a great balance between the the core vibe that has brought the mountain a highly passionate core following, and also some needed growth to allow for financial stability and some needed upgrades to draw new customers to what it truly a gem of a mountain!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 4, 2015)

They need Lazzoo as assistance in management of little funds mountain management.


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## Magic (Nov 4, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> They need Lazzoo as assistance in management of little funds mountain management.



My gut says the "investors" are throwing money in as a consolation prize since the deal fell through. I honestly don't care who is "donating" the money at this point, but just hope one of them in the bunch has the brains to use it wisely!


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## Sorcerer (Nov 4, 2015)

Magic said:


> My gut says the "investors" are throwing money in as a consolation prize since the deal fell through. I honestly don't care who is "donating" the money at this point, but just hope one of them in the bunch has the brains to use it wisely!



I don't think it is the investors or the Nelson's.I think it's McLaughlin but I don't know who he is (or maybe Lyrczyczar - however you spell it), . There are a lot of people working on the mountain right now (3 on the Red Chair including a lift mech from a company in CO and a lift inspector, 3 painting the deck, 5 on the Black Chair and a few others around) so someone is putting in money.


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## Magic (Nov 4, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> I don't think it is the investors or the Nelson's.I think it's McLaughlin but I don't know who he is (or maybe Lyrczyczar - however you spell it), . There are a lot of people working on the mountain right now (3 on the Red Chair including a lift mech from a company in CO and a lift inspector, 3 painting the deck, 5 on the Black Chair and a few others around) so someone is putting in money.



Well, from my years at Magic, I know there a a few people out there with mega bucks who may want a nice mountain for their kiddies to ski on who sat back and said enough with the drama and the tight budget. Keep it comin!!!


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## Sorcerer (Nov 4, 2015)

Magic said:


> Well, from my years at Magic, I know there a a few people out there with mega bucks who may want a nice mountain for their kiddies to ski on who sat back and said enough with the drama and the tight budget. Keep it comin!!!



I don't believe that is the case here !!


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 5, 2015)

Courtesy of Radam


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## Smellytele (Nov 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Courtesy of Radam



beastly


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## jrmagic (Nov 5, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Courtesy of Radam



Nice Rusty! Exactly what I want to think about Magic


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## slatham (Nov 5, 2015)

Gets the ski juices flowing at a time when the only thing that's flowing is the sweat from the heat! Somebody turn the temp down!


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## Sorcerer (Nov 10, 2015)

I used my credit card for a few "items" at Magic's Black Line Tavern and got a confirmation from James McLaughlin. Does anyone know who he is and what he does?


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## PearlJam09 (Nov 10, 2015)

He is the new GM.  His day job is a patent lawyer in CT. I believe he is ex ski patrol at Magic.


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## PearlJam09 (Nov 10, 2015)

How was the food BTW?


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 10, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> He is the new GM.  His day job is a patent lawyer in CT. I believe he is ex ski patrol at Magic.



Also, McLaughlin is Tom's new investor/donor in his operating company, Magic Mountain Resorts LLC, and the main reason there is money to hire new employees (new directors for patrol, ski school, sales, food) finish up the lift repairs, lodge fixes, ATVs and some type of snowmaking budget so the mountain can have a solid opening this season. Will be interesting to see as the GM whether he will really be part-time in CT or full-time in VT.


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## Sorcerer (Nov 10, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> How was the food BTW?



I only had the wings with French fries (real healthy). The wings came with a blue cheese that was great. I liked the wings and fries too.



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## tnt1234 (Nov 10, 2015)

was thinking about trying Magic for the first time over x-mas break.  But given the forecast, hard to imagine it would be the right time to try it.  

Place looks great to me and I've never been.


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## slatham (Nov 10, 2015)

Its November 10th. What forecast do you have that you are confident of for 6+ weeks away? I am a weather buff so would like to see it. 

And for what its worth, one of the services I subscribe to, which has been pretty good year to date (and the last couple of winters) indicates that with this pattern, sea surface temps, etc., a warm November is very typical. It is usually followed by a below normal December. They put this forecast out months ago. So far so good. Take it for what it is, but the point is, what happens in early November does not make the late December weather. 

Final note - since you are new to Magic - be aware that while they will make snow they cover the mountain much slower than other resorts and thus are more dependent on natural snow. Hope you get a chance to ski it though - its a beaut!


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## tnt1234 (Nov 10, 2015)

slatham said:


> Its November 10th. What forecast do you have that you are confident of for 6+ weeks away? I am a weather buff so would like to see it.
> 
> And for what its worth, one of the services I subscribe to, which has been pretty good year to date (and the last couple of winters) indicates that with this pattern, sea surface temps, etc., a warm November is very typical. It is usually followed by a below normal December. They put this forecast out months ago. So far so good. Take it for what it is, but the point is, what happens in early November does not make the late December weather.
> 
> Final note - since you are new to Magic - be aware that while they will make snow they cover the mountain much slower than other resorts and thus are more dependent on natural snow. Hope you get a chance to ski it though - its a beaut!



Here's hoping that forecast works out!

I'm really basing my pessimism on a trip to Stratton a few years ago, same time frame.  I guess this would be 2013.  Slow start in Nov., , then, a good start to december with a big storm, then a rain storm right before the holiday.

Stratton was nearly 100% open, but rode the lifts with a few folks who said magic only had 3-4 trails open, which is why they weren't there.


So, who knows...no sense worrying about it, except I'll have to find a room somewhere at some point, but it just seems to me Magic must need some consistent cold and a few storms before it's really worth it.  I'd really like to ski there when it's all open and the trees are filled.  Looks like a blast.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 11, 2015)

Just never know what you'll find.  I'm sure I posted this before.  12/14/14.  Week prior to opening last year.  We figured we'd be picking our way down.  Best 1st run of the year ever.


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## slatham (Nov 11, 2015)

Yes, a dump like the one in Rusty's video changes everything pretty quick. That put down a base that survived until April!


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## billski (Nov 14, 2015)

The Magic booth at the Boston ski show today was pitifully empty.  That is, there was no one attending to it during the five hours I was there, from 11AM to 4pm today, Saturday, a peak time.  Very sad.   I have a photo for another time.     So much for special offers "at the show".
No Saddleback either.  Both in the thros of ownership machinations.


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## Tin (Nov 14, 2015)

billski said:


> The Magic booth at the Boston ski show today was pitifully empty.  That is, there was no one attending to it during the five hours I was there, from 11AM to 4pm today, Saturday, a peak time.  Very sad.   I have a photo for another time.




Magic will always survive!


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## Smellytele (Nov 14, 2015)

Actually did see a guy manning it with some little girl at one point


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 14, 2015)

billski said:


> The Magic booth at the Boston ski show today was pitifully empty.  That is, there was no one attending to it during the five hours I was there, from 11AM to 4pm today, Saturday, a peak time.  Very sad.   I have a photo for another time.     So much for special offers "at the show".
> No Saddleback either.  Both in the thros of ownership machinations.



They were there you just couldn't see them. Just another Magic trick!


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## yeggous (Nov 14, 2015)

I did notice their pitiful showing. I was surprised that it was so quiet. They were outdone by western, New York, and Quebec mountains.


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## billski (Nov 14, 2015)




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## tnt1234 (Nov 15, 2015)

anyone live close to magic?  Are they making snow yet?  looks like Okemo and Stratton have turned their guns on.

I know Magic doesn't have nearly the snow making capacity, but just wondering if they will start now that the larger resorts have.


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## Newpylong (Nov 15, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> anyone live close to magic?  Are they making snow yet?  looks like Okemo and Stratton have turned their guns on.
> 
> I know Magic doesn't have nearly the snow making capacity, but just wondering if they will start now that the larger resorts have.



Don't have to see the slopes to know there is no way they would make snow now. 1 month to scheduled opening, way too many factors on top of a small budget to go wrong.


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## prsboogie (Nov 15, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Don't have to see the slopes to know there is no way they would make snow now. 1 month to scheduled opening, way too many factors on top of a small budget to go wrong.



∆this∆


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 15, 2015)

It would be one thing if the weather was cold enough to minimize melt loss... but it's not even close.


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## slatham (Nov 15, 2015)

I'd be worried if they were making snow this early!

They did send out an email this morning about some nice "Ski Show" deals that are available today. 3 packs for $120!


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 15, 2015)

Between these very low priced ski show 3-packs ($120 vs. on website at $150) and a Groupon super discount deal at 62% off a lift ticket (where Magic splits the sale proceeds with groupon), they seem to be scrambling to fund some type of snowmaking budget between now and December.


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## slatham (Nov 15, 2015)

Everyone funds early season snowmaking with passes and deals. And for obvious reasons Magic would be more desperate for these funds than others.


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## Do Work (Nov 16, 2015)

Snowmaking now??  No way.  Money down the drain.  Maybe in two weeks or so.  Now would just be crazy though.  Just my .02


I'll be up there this weekend moving some stuff in and welding up a couple projects though, anybody going to be around?


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## tnt1234 (Nov 16, 2015)

Whelp, gonna grab a room for a few days over x-mas break.  Hope to try Magic for the first time.  Will be close enough to the big boys if they don't have a lot open.

Was actually thinking of trying magic and bromley - neither of which I have been to.  

Think snow!


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## Do Work (Nov 16, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Whelp, gonna grab a room for a few days over x-mas break.  Hope to try Magic for the first time.  Will be close enough to the big boys if they don't have a lot open.
> 
> Was actually thinking of trying magic and bromley - neither of which I have been to.
> 
> Think snow!



I'll be there for the whole XMas break.  Hit me up and I'll show you around!


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## tnt1234 (Nov 16, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I'll be there for the whole XMas break.  Hit me up and I'll show you around!



Thanks man!  Assuming plan comes together, will touch base closer to break.


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## billski (Nov 16, 2015)

They should just do an EB-5 program.   that'll do the trick.   JP has something like 77 EB-5 investors


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## billski (Nov 16, 2015)

slatham said:


> I'd be worried if they were making snow this early!
> 
> They did send out an email this morning about some nice "Ski Show" deals that are available today. 3 packs for $120!



I think they are trying to compensate for not having a warm body at their Boston show booth to sell these.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 16, 2015)

"Gunzz" were cranked Saturday.  Doggie approved.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2015)

billski said:


> I think they are trying to compensate for not having a warm body at their Boston show booth to sell these.



As noted I did see a guy there at one point on Saturday. Not sure who he was. Tallish bald guy - had a 5 or 6 yearold girl with him.


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## billski (Nov 16, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> As noted I did see a guy there at one point on Saturday. Not sure who he was. Tallish bald guy - had a 5 or 6 yearold girl with him.


  Your note was acknowledged.  But you can't bring back people who have left the building.


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## dlague (Nov 16, 2015)

billski said:


> Your note was acknowledged.  But you can't bring back people who have left the building.



Huh?


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2015)

dlague said:


> Huh?



not sure what he means either


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 16, 2015)

billski said:


> They should just do an EB-5 program.   that'll do the trick.   JP has something like 77 EB-5 investors



Uh, yeah. Piece of cake to do EB-5. Perhaps you can loan the mountain the $100K+ needed just to put their EB-5 program together and approved before you get one immigrant investor...


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 16, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> "Gunzz" were cranked Saturday.  Doggie approved.



That is the epitome of a "hero shot".

Good doggie...


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## slatham (Nov 16, 2015)

Nice to see some snow on them thar hills!

What's the excavator doing in the middle of Hocus Pocus?


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 16, 2015)

slatham said:


> Nice to see some snow on them thar hills!
> 
> What's the excavator doing in the middle of Hocus Pocus?



Digging for gold, natch


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## slatham (Nov 16, 2015)

Well I Hope they find some. White gold, of course!


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## Do Work (Nov 16, 2015)

slatham said:


> Nice to see some snow on them thar hills!
> 
> What's the excavator doing in the middle of Hocus Pocus?





Making a nice muddy hole for me to lay in this weekend of course!


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## slatham (Nov 17, 2015)

Ah, pipe welding in mud! Fun stuff. Your work will be much appreciated!


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## MMP (Nov 18, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Uh, yeah. Piece of cake to do EB-5. Perhaps you can loan the mountain the $100K+ needed just to put their EB-5 program together and approved before you get one immigrant investor...



get those flagzz squared away.


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 18, 2015)

God Bless the United States of Switzerland!


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## gmcunni (Nov 18, 2015)

looks like they are marketing to ski clubs now. Just saw this in my CT Ski Club info:



> Magic 802-824-5645 http://www.magicmtn.com/
> Magic is open Thursday thru Sunday and Holidays ( 12/25-1/3, 1/16-18, 2/14-21 )
> Adult (ages 21-69) Teens (ages 11-20) Child (ages 6-10) Sr (ages 70+) 5 and under free.
> Members must show a membership card and photo ID to receive the following rates:
> ...


----------



## MMP (Nov 18, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> God Bless the United States of Switzerland!



If ISIS hits the Swiss all we'd have to do is lower it a few inches.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 18, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> looks like they are marketing to ski clubs now. Just saw this in my CT Ski Club info:


They can stick it.


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## Smellytele (Nov 19, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> They can stick it.



???


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## tnt1234 (Nov 19, 2015)

Magic Mountain teasing an announcement 10am tomorrow on Facebook.

Snow making to begin this weekend perhaps?


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## Tin (Nov 19, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Magic Mountain teasing an announcement 10am tomorrow on Facebook.
> 
> Snow making to begin this weekend perhaps?



They posted that last night so it should be up today. They are going to put bubbles on Red.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 19, 2015)

Tin said:


> They posted that last night so it should be up today. They are going to put bubbles on Red.



:-o


----------



## Sorcerer (Nov 19, 2015)

Tin said:


> They posted that last night so it should be up today. They are going to put bubbles on Red.



Tiny bubblesssss.......


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## slatham (Nov 19, 2015)

Gotta be the flag poles!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 19, 2015)

On Facebookcrappy sane day tickets for them through liftpia.com


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## billski (Nov 19, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> On Facebookcrappy sane day tickets for them through liftpia.com


  Many resorts are using Liftopia for their same day promos.   Only a very few ski areas using Liftopia for the flex-pass option.


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## billski (Nov 19, 2015)

Those $49 stowe tickets require you to sign up to attach  your credit card account to your rfi card.   Not sure I'm ready to do that.  Auto billing from stowe, nah, not so much.  Worth $50, dunno....


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## tnt1234 (Nov 19, 2015)

Also, they said there is a roof on the lodge.  

Huh.


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## tnt1234 (Nov 19, 2015)

billski said:


> Those $49 stowe tickets require you to sign up to attach  your credit card account to your rfi card.   Not sure I'm ready to do that.  Auto billing from stowe, nah, not so much.  Worth $50, dunno....



$49 stowe tickets?  How do I make that happen?

I attached my credit card to my stowe card a few years ago.  It's great  - don't even have to reload on line - just head to the lift.  First scan charges the card.  Also, card works at the bar....


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## prsboogie (Nov 19, 2015)

They repaired the entire roof. Infrastructure improvements that some have been complaining about not being done
Edited to correct language - repaired - over read that one!!


----------



## sull1102 (Nov 19, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Also, they said there is a roof on the lodge.
> 
> Huh.



Pretty sure they said they repaired the roof not that it has one...


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 19, 2015)

billski said:


> Those $49 stowe tickets require you to sign up to attach  your credit card account to your rfi card.   Not sure I'm ready to do that.  Auto billing from stowe, nah, not so much.  Worth $50, dunno....



What direction did this come from?


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> They replaced the entire roof. Infrastructure improvements that some have been complaining about not being done



Hahahaahahahaaaaa.


----------



## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> They replaced the entire roof. Infrastructure improvements that some have been complaining about not being done





RustyGroomer said:


> Hahahaahahahaaaaa.



ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 20, 2015)

New hockey pucks in the urinals this year or is that earmarked for 2017?


----------



## gmcunni (Nov 20, 2015)

allegedly some black chair news today.


----------



## VTKilarney (Nov 20, 2015)

The "announcement" hype from yesterday was just bizarre.  They teased that an announcement on Facebook would be made in the morning only to delay the announcement until the afternoon.  The announcement was that the roof had been repaired. 

It seems to me that they had something else they wanted to announce but at the last minute had to pull the plug.


----------



## billski (Nov 20, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Hahahaahahahaaaaa.



I'm missing the humor in this one.   Re-roofing (I believe that's what they meant) is a long-term investment.  That says someone is planning on preserving the current lodge, rather than milking it in the short term.
People bitch about the on slope operations and mechanicals because that's all they care about.   A lodge investment, when managed well, can provide a year-round cash flow for functions and events. And they can do it for a lot less coin than Stratton, Okemo or Mt. Snow.   But you know all about that.


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## prsboogie (Nov 20, 2015)

I definitely mis-read the post. I had said they replaced when they in fact said repaired.


----------



## billski (Nov 20, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> The announcement was that the roof had been repaired. .


  In my business, a roof is something that the customer cares little about.  Investors care, analysts care, vendors care.  I'm sure they are proud of what was accomplished and I wish them well with it.  It does signal they are making capital improvements, but it shouldn't be front and center.   I'm convinced a better marketing bloke could go a long way towards cleaning up their image, even if you and I disagree with internal management.


----------



## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

let me help you out here. bragging about fixing a hole in the roof and pimping that as a big announcement is stupid. Why the hell would anyone be pumped up about fixing a hole in the roof. Do you commend your kids when they do what they're supposed to? Oh, Johnny, Thank you so much for taking out the trash. It's expected that the lodge has a roof. Every lodge has a roof. Did you know  that if you replace your roof 5 minutes before you sell your house it adds nothing to the value. Same with new windows. Know why? Because without them there is NO value. 

The fact that these are things that the management thinks you should be psyched about is troubling.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 20, 2015)

Yes, a new roof would be a long-term investment in the lodge Billski. Yes they did fix the areas of the roof that had been leaking badly since last winter. But as the roofer said, it should last through the winter. But the long-term fix, a new roof, will be left to someone else.


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## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

A real announcement is, we are knocking down this complete piece of shit lodge and replacing it with a state of the art, ecologically sound, energy efficient lodge a fraction of the size of this albatross.  

or: We plan to heat the lodge this year.

or: due to fixing the hole where all the heat escaped, we expect the lodge to be over 60 degrees this winter, so if someone that doesnt ski wants to hang in the lodge, they dont need to wear an expedition suit.


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## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

or: Do Work is now running the joint.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)

They patched a leak in the roof.  Done by Jay who also fixed his deck @ Trailside.  Great job by a dedicated Magic skier but hardly an "announcement".


----------



## farlep99 (Nov 20, 2015)

I hear they're replacing all of the gaskets in the bar sinks as well.  Haven't confirmed that yet, hoping for an announcement.  Stoked for no more leakage...


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 20, 2015)

Is the lodge really not heated?

Ha.  I love this place and I haven't even been yet!


----------



## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Is the lodge really not heated?
> 
> Ha.  I love this place and I haven't even been yet!



It's a great place to ski.  If you have base layers on you can be warm. My bride is not a skier and we do not get to enjoy her company in the lodge too often, because it's too cool. High 50's low 60's tops.


----------



## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

there is also a Swiss flag flying at just about the top of the pole (honoring founding Nazi Hans Thorner). there is also a brand new in plastic US flag I'm told. Pretty fancy place.


----------



## yeggous (Nov 20, 2015)

MMP said:


> there is also a Swiss flag flying at just about the top of the pole (honoring founding Nazi Hans Thorner). there is also a brand new in plastic US flag I'm told. Pretty fancy place.



I was really hoping that this was going to be the big announcement. It would have gotten me more excited.

I am dumbfounded that they could try to promote the roof repair as a big announcement. It makes me feel better to know that no matter how much things may go wrong where I ski, at least it is not Magic.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## MMP (Nov 20, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I was really hoping that this was going to be the big announcement. It would have gotten me more excited.
> 
> I am dumbfounded that they could try to promote the roof repair as a big announcement. It makes me feel better to know that no matter how much things may go wrong where I ski, at least it is not Magic.
> 
> ...



your (or as magic would say: "you're") logic is flawed. The skiing is amazing, the people are amazing. We have done everything we can to "save magic" and now a lot of us hope for the best, expect the worst, pray for snow, and no matter what, have a better time than anyone else anywhere on skis. 

My deal is that i laugh to keep my anger at bay. The flags have me pretty pissed though. Mud season is almost over, time to allocate some resources to this project.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)

MMP said:


> and no matter what, have a better time than anyone else anywhere on skis.
> 
> My deal is that i laugh to keep my anger at bay.



tn1234, go by this then come ski.


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 20, 2015)

Hope to be there for at least a day over x-mas break.  If coverage is poor, I'll take the kids to the big, crowded, grooming factories - or maybe Bromley...  But we're staying close to magic, so no matter what, I'll be able to check the lodge's patched roof out!

I really love these kind of places, with quirky character and a 'shut up and ski' attitude, so here's hoping for snow.  Kids are really into tree skiing now too, but I think that will be a pipe dream at this point.


----------



## Magic (Nov 20, 2015)

I am not digging the condescending attitude from the marketing guy with these "surprise" announcements and curt responses to posters (Matt Lillard). If I was a non Magic skier and read that crap about the roof. I would run the other way!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 20, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Hope to be there for at least a day over x-mas break.  If coverage is poor, I'll take the kids to the big, crowded, grooming factories - or maybe Bromley...  But we're staying close to magic, so no matter what, I'll be able to check the lodge's patched roof out!
> 
> I really love these kind of places, with quirky character and a 'shut up and ski' attitude, so here's hoping for snow.  Kids are really into tree skiing now too, but I think that will be a pipe dream at this point.



NIIIIICE! I can tell you're going to like it here


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Hope to be there for at least a day over x-mas break.  If coverage is poor, I'll take the kids to the big, crowded, grooming factories - or maybe Bromley...  But we're staying close to magic, so no matter what, I'll be able to check the lodge's patched roof out!
> 
> I really love these kind of places, with quirky character and a 'shut up and ski' attitude, so here's hoping for snow.  Kids are really into tree skiing now too, but I think that will be a pipe dream at this point.




None of us are loved enough to have other plans for Christmas break so we'll be there.  Say hello.


----------



## yeggous (Nov 20, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> None of us are loved enough to have other plans for Christmas break so we'll be there.  Say hello.



I'll be there the last weekend in January. If conditions are decent I am happy to ski there. Otherwise I'll flee somewhere else local. I look forward to the full tour.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I'll be there the last weekend in January. If conditions are decent I am happy to ski there. Otherwise I'll flee somewhere else local. I look forward to the full tour.



None of us are loved enough to have other plans for January so we'll be there. Say hello.


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Nov 20, 2015)

Jan 23/24 and Feb 6/7... ink it


----------



## wtcobb (Nov 20, 2015)

This just in:



> Work continues on the chairlifts. The beloved Red Chair is just about  ready to go. Over on the Black Chair we've just finished regripping  every chair and are moving on to line work. Our plan is to have both  spinning this year.
> On a side note, the base lodge will have public WiFi this year!


----------



## p_levert (Nov 20, 2015)

Free Wifi in the base lodge.  Great place to get infected by a virus :grin:


----------



## yeggous (Nov 20, 2015)

p_levert said:


> Free Wifi in the base lodge.  Great place to get infected by a virus :grin:



Welcome to 15 years ago!


----------



## farlep99 (Nov 20, 2015)

What's next, paper towels in the men's room and a divider between the sink & urinal??


----------



## yeggous (Nov 20, 2015)

farlep99 said:


> What's next, paper towels in the men's room and a divider between the sink & urinal??



Maybe flags on the flagpoles?


----------



## wtcobb (Nov 20, 2015)

p_levert said:


> Free Wifi in the base lodge.  Great place to get infected by a virus :grin:



I guess now we know how they patched the roof?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)

farlep99 said:


> What's next, paper towels in the men's room and a divider between the sink & urinal??



Really??  Awesome.  

I'll be rocking my sweatshirt Ski Til I Die. Keep us posted/reminded.


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Nov 20, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Really??  Awesome.
> 
> I'll be rocking my sweatshirt Ski Til I Die. Keep us posted/reminded.



Good man!!! 

Yea... should be the usual suspects / shotski at the bar kind of weekend... looking forward to it!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 20, 2015)




----------



## jrmagic (Nov 20, 2015)

MMP said:


> your (or as magic would say: "you're") logic is flawed. The skiing is amazing, the people are amazing. We have done everything we can to "save magic" and now a lot of us hope for the best, expect the worst, pray for snow, and no matter what, have a better time than anyone else anywhere on skis.
> 
> My deal is that i laugh to keep my anger at bay. The flags have me pretty pissed though. Mud season is almost over, time to allocate some resources to this project.



This exactly... well most of it... the flags don't bother me like they... well it lol bothers pinhead


----------



## jrmagic (Nov 20, 2015)

Ski Till I Die said:


> Good man!!!
> 
> Yea... should be the usual suspects / shotski at the bar kind of weekend... looking forward to it!



Somehie I missed you last year. Looking forward to it this year.


----------



## skithetrees (Nov 20, 2015)

Anyone else notice that they now plan to have both lifts running "this season," not opening day, according to Facebook. I have always been a big supporter, but this is rediculous. The big news today was that they did some lift work and what was supposed to be operational opening day is now "this season."  They should just stop their social media campaign. It actually is hurting them and is a bit of a joke.i mean really, promise a big announcement at 10 am and then blow by that by 6 hours to announce a roof repair. Sure something may have changed, but come on. Let's be real. I am kind of done with the hoping for better. It's just more of the same. It's kind of a shame - so many people here and elsewhere give so much to this mountain.


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 20, 2015)

*

"Fixing A Hole"*

   I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in
And stops my mind from wandering
Where it will go

I'm filling the cracks that ran through the door
And kept my mind from wandering
Where it will go

And it really doesn't matter if
I'm wrong I'm right
Where I belong I'm right
Where I belong
See the people standing there
Who disagree and never win
And wonder why they don't get in my door

I'm painting my room in the colourful way
And when my mind is wandering
There I will go
Ooh ooh ooh ah ah
Hey, hey, hey, hey

And it really doesn't matter if
I'm wrong I'm right
Where I belong I'm right
Where I belong
Silly people run around
They worry me and never ask me
Why they don't get past my door

I'm taking the time for a number of things
That weren't important yesterday
And I still go
Ooh ooh ooh ah ah

I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in
Stops my mind from wandering
Where it will go oh
Where it will go oh

I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in
And stops my mind from wandering
Where it will go


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 21, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Anyone else notice that they now plan to have both lifts running "this season," not opening day, according to Facebook. I have always been a big supporter, but this is rediculous. The big news today was that they did some lift work and what was supposed to be operational opening day is now "this season."  They should just stop their social media campaign. It actually is hurting them and is a bit of a joke.i mean really, promise a big announcement at 10 am and then blow by that by 6 hours to announce a roof repair. Sure something may have changed, but come on. Let's be real. I am kind of done with the hoping for better. It's just more of the same. It's kind of a shame - so many people here and elsewhere give so much to this mountain.



Yeah, kind of a drag to think only one lift will be open over x-mas break.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 21, 2015)

FB post said goal was to have both going "opening day". Should happen. But you never know until lift inspector gives it the final ok.


----------



## skithetrees (Nov 21, 2015)

They must have just changed it. Last night it said "this season."  Something we hve all heard before.


----------



## zoomzoom (Nov 21, 2015)

annual inspections should be a formality only, with no surprises or multiple visits for state approval.  the expectations are clearly presented on the vt tramway website, and annual reminder letters of these requirements are sent out annually in late fall.  i've heard that some areas can get 4 or 5 lifts inspected in one day with zero probs, while other places will take a full day for just one lift to pass as problems are fixed as they're found.  i've read somewhere (here maybe?) that sometime brakes don't pass torque test or rollbacks fail during inspection.  !


----------



## The Sneak (Nov 21, 2015)

I think just red spinning early on is just fine. The only time IMO it's really been an issue are peak season days with racing and or other events going on...there was a day last year that had racing, the ski the east competition, and a TGR ticket deal/meetup day.

That was a day where patience was a virtue. We still got plenty of vert and several beers upstairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## xwhaler (Nov 21, 2015)

Magics draw is no lines which is part of their marketing plan. The big issue with the Peak days is for non Magic regulars. If they wait in big lines with just red spinning they may be unlikely to ever come back.
Magic needs Black running on those days to help ensure new folks don't have a bad experience


----------



## prsboogie (Nov 21, 2015)

You know what Magic, and every other ski area in New England for that matter, a nice 32-38" blizzard starting Thanksgiving Evening. Nuff talking, we need to start skiing/sliding!!


----------



## slatham (Nov 21, 2015)

+1

Bring it on! 

THINK SNOW!


----------



## MMP (Nov 22, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Magics ... marketing plan.



Good one. I get it. Haha.


----------



## yeggous (Nov 22, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Magics draw is no lines which is part of their marketing plan. The big issue with the Peak days is for non Magic regulars. If they wait in big lines with just red spinning they may be unlikely to ever come back.
> Magic needs Black running on those days to help ensure new folks don't have a bad experience



This is a valid point. I know that a lack of crowds is a major influence on where I choose to ski.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 22, 2015)

yeggous said:


> This is a valid point. I know that a lack of crowds is a major influence on where I choose to ski.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



It's exactly why I'm planning to try Magic this X-mas break.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Nov 22, 2015)




----------



## Tin (Nov 22, 2015)

Awesome video...except that ending. Ouch.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanks!  Yeah.  That kept me off snow for two weeks.  Was supposed to be on crutches for one of those weeks, but ain't nobody got time fo' dat.  I did get certified to be a bartender in VT during that time so it wasn't a total loss.


----------



## yeggous (Nov 22, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


>



I thought somebody said there were no lift lines at Magic? There's no way I'm waiting in that line to ride a fixed grip.


----------



## WoodCore (Nov 22, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


>



Schweeeet!


----------



## Harvey (Nov 22, 2015)

No way I'd wait in a line that long to ride a high speed chair.

AWESOME video.


----------



## prsboogie (Nov 22, 2015)

Nice stoke PJ09 and +1 on the ouch!!


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I thought somebody said there were no lift lines at Magic? There's no way I'm waiting in that line to ride a fixed grip.



Obviously not last year but the red must have been down.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Nov 23, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Obviously not last year but the red must have been down.



That was a holiday week powder day first chair line the year that red didn't open until late January.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Nov 23, 2015)

I'd wait in that line for those conditions at Magic.  Happily.  There is plenty to go around.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Do Work (Nov 23, 2015)

Awesome edit PJ!  

It's great to see Magic in such great shape.  We had to go all over the place this weekend, and let me just say that the mountain is in near golf course shape.  We even poked our heads in a bunch of tree runs and it's wall-to-wall carpet clean everywhere.  Snowmaking test went swimmingly and both lifts are looking great.  The mountain is abuzz with new staff making all kinds of improvements too- Construction projects, organizational plans and all kinds of networking.  We have got some awesome people and plans for this year and it's going to be killer!  I can't wait to get back up there again next weekend.  Such exciting times!


----------



## PearlJam09 (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanks!  While I don't wear the same rose colored glasses that you always seem to, I also cannot wait for opening day.


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

do work, what's up with the flagzzzz? where is that on the list of priorities? imagine how awesome it will be for that guy that donated them to pull up and see those flying after listening to this shit all year. do it for him. ask him which day he'll be skiing there this year so it can be done by then.


----------



## Magic (Nov 23, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Thanks!  While I don't wear the same rose colored glasses that you always seem to, I also cannot wait for opening day.



The kool-aid goes down better in a shotski...


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2015)

MMP said:


> do work, what's up with the flagzzzz? where is that on the list of priorities? imagine how awesome it will be for that guy that donated them to pull up and see those flying after listening to this shit all year. do it for him. ask him which day he'll be skiing there this year so it can be done by then.



You need another pony...
This one is getting old


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

why dont you focus on counting up your ski days? I care about follow up, so STFU. 

thanks for sharing your opinion.


----------



## xwhaler (Nov 23, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> You need another pony...
> This one is getting old



+100000


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> +100000





MMP said:


> why dont you focus on counting up your ski days? I care about follow up, so STFU.



i bet theres an interesting story about why you only had 16 days in 12-13 huh?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Nov 23, 2015)

MMP said:


> i bet theres an interesting story about why you only had 16 days in 12-13 huh?



Gender reassignment surgery?


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Gender reassignment surgery?




Letting the LGBT flag fly? At Magic, it's all good.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 23, 2015)

enough with the bullshit guys

keep things constructive

you want to take the gloves off, there's TGR for that

Thanks


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> enough with the bullshit guys
> 
> keep things constructive
> 
> ...



everyone said I'd come to no good, Pearly believe them


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 23, 2015)

Always have said when I buy a boat someday I'm calling it the August West


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 23, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Always have said when I buy a boat someday I'm calling it the August West



That's our buddies name.  He's a good guy.  Not a dick like MMP.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 23, 2015)

I've seen the handle on TGR

Got my ticket.  Looking forward to making there this winter and hopefully meeting several of the Mags


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2015)

MMP said:


> why dont you focus on counting up your ski days? I care about follow up, so STFU.
> 
> thanks for sharing your opinion.



Did I hurt your little feelings there tough Internet guy?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 23, 2015)

A telemark fight?  wtf?  Has this ever happened?


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> A telemark fight?  wtf?  Has this ever happened?




:-o


----------



## jrmagic (Nov 23, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> A telemark fight?  wtf?  Has this ever happened?



Lol So much for free heel hippie  love!


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> A telemark fight?  wtf?  Has this ever happened?



why don't you STFU too


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Lol So much for free heel hippie  love!



why don't you STFU too


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Did I hurt your little feelings there tough Internet guy?



I'm just mad that in 2011 you got 30 days and I only had 29.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 23, 2015)

Is there a special hacky sack you guys use for disputes?  Loser labels GMO'z?  Let us know when you're ready to ski with real Americans.


----------



## prsboogie (Nov 23, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> You know what Magic, and every other ski area in New England for that matter, a nice 32-38" blizzard starting Thanksgiving Evening. Nuff talking, we need to start skiing/sliding!!



And i repeat said qoute!!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 23, 2015)

RustyGroomer said:


> Is there a special hacky sack you guys use for disputes?  Loser labels GMO'z?  Let us know when you're ready to ski with real Americans.



https://youtu.be/vhwRAgbcPnE


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 23, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Always have said when I buy a boat someday I'm calling it the August West



What a shitty name


----------



## Harvey (Nov 23, 2015)

I got a soft spot for underdog old school mountains.  That's my thing, I get that other people, the majority, would rather choose other mountains in SoVT. The roof leaks, it's cold in the lodge, the flags are... I forget.

Still I don't get the hating on Magic. Does every mountain have to be the same? Hopefully the place can find a way to survive and retain it's Magic. 

DoWork you da man.


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

Afaik only one douche was hating on magic here. They are what they are. At this point some of us have to just laugh.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 23, 2015)

I dare to disagree. I was positive the whole team so eat shit donkey nuts


----------



## MMP (Nov 23, 2015)

Couldn't have said it worse. Whatever it was you were trying to say.


----------



## Tin (Nov 24, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I dare to disagree. I was positive the whole team so eat shit donkey nuts



Pounding those wine coolers again?


----------



## jrmagic (Nov 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> Pounding those wine coolers again?



Based on that post it might be even worse.


----------



## jrmagic (Nov 24, 2015)

MMP said:


> why don't you STFU too



Oh snaps!!! Elder statesmen llskioffnis in order


----------



## Do Work (Nov 24, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I dare to disagree. I was positive the whole team so eat shit donkey nuts






Lol...  Way to be the guilty conscience, I'm pretty sure he was talking about that perpetual shart-in-the-shorts 'Ol Steamy.


I still am not sure what the heck you mean though.  Was that translated by google from another language by chance??


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lol...  Way to be the guilty conscience, I'm pretty sure he was talking about that perpetual shart-in-the-shorts 'Ol Steamy.
> 
> 
> I still am not sure what the heck you mean though.  Was that translated by google from another language by chance??



time not team is my guess


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 24, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Lol...  Way to be the guilty conscience, I'm pretty sure he was talking about that perpetual shart-in-the-shorts 'Ol Steamy.
> 
> 
> I still am not sure what the heck you mean though.  Was that translated by google from another language by chance??



I believe it was translated by Google Earth. I don't even know what I was trying to say. I think I need to lay off the Ambien lol


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 25, 2015)

Someone is going to be happy..


----------



## mbedle (Nov 25, 2015)

mtl1076 said:


> and it sure as hell won't be OSHA.  You sure you want to post this pic?



LOL - I'm using that for my next HAZWOPER class....


----------



## wtcobb (Nov 25, 2015)

mtl1076 said:


> and it sure as hell won't be OSHA.  You sure you want to post this pic?




They should put a ladder in the bucket - that way they can reach the top of the pole.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 25, 2015)

USA back where it belongs!


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Someone is going to be happy..
> 
> View attachment 17963


----------



## MMP (Nov 25, 2015)

3 men and a bucket loader/backhoe. I'm glad billski finally stepped up and underwrote the expense of having a flag fly. Good on ya Billski.


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 25, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> USA back where it belongs!
> 
> View attachment 17964



LOL....The old ones are out of plumb.


----------



## slatham (Nov 25, 2015)

Sorry, too many improvements and not enough to to complain about. Next thing you know there will be Sushi in BLT!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 25, 2015)

Billski added some new flags...LGM!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 25, 2015)

I'm thinking MMP will go MIA now that he has nothing to complain about....


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 25, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> USA back where it belongs!



I'm really excited for them.


----------



## prsboogie (Nov 26, 2015)

Best Deals of the Season on Passes and Tickets!

View this email in your browser (http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7aa25df3430f5fd8a6aacf087&id=35af74d287&e=b86998433d)


** Magic Mountain's Black Friday and Cyber Monday Sales are Here!
------------------------------------------------------------
We're excited to unveil our all new online shopping experience for Black Friday and Cyber Monday Sales. The new site is clean and easy to use on any device. You can expect an Alpine Update from us on Tuesday, December 1st.

Adult season passes for $449 (very limited quantities), 3-Packs starting at $109, lift tickets starting at $9.99, and many more deals will be available starting today at 6PM through Monday. Preview deals are live right now with $12.49 Throwback Thursday tickets, $24.99 Friday tickets, and Holiday White Out Passes for under $199. Quantities are limited so don't miss out!
Magic Store (http://www.mkt.com/magicmtn)


----------



## ScottySkis (Nov 26, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> Best Deals of the Season on Passes and Tickets!
> 
> View this email in your browser (http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7aa25df3430f5fd8a6aacf087&id=35af74d287&e=b86998433d)
> 
> ...



On Facebookcrappy to they say their pass is partner with another south Vermont hill but which one


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 27, 2015)

That's damn tempting. I think I'll be pulling the trigger. Thought about getting a pass to Wachusett because I have 2 little ones and it's important to be close to home. But I also want to get my oldest into skiing this year and at Wachusett it's 10 bucks just to use the rope tow where Magic is free. That's my selling point to the wife


----------



## rocks860 (Nov 27, 2015)

I picked up the 3 pack today


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 28, 2015)

Maybe, just maybe I'll hit them up for a $20 ski club Thurs. Doubt it though.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 28, 2015)

Glad to see they now have  VT/NH days Sundays $49 and Fridays $39. I think that is new. they did have the VT season passholder discount before which they still have


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 28, 2015)

VT/NH days have been around since the 2012-13 season on Fridays and Sundays. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## prsboogie (Nov 28, 2015)

They also have a family 4 pack for 130.00


----------



## danimals (Nov 29, 2015)

Groupon has Thursday tickets for $12. Use local20 code to bring down from $15 to $12.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MMP (Nov 30, 2015)

whoever they had "fix" the flagpole bent the everloving shit out of it. 

tried to buy a 3-pack as part of cyber monday but was told the product isn't available. still cyber monday over here.


----------



## slatham (Nov 30, 2015)

MMP, they had a strange end date for the 3 packs - like Friday the 27th I believe? Last year it was Dec 1st. They have certainly been very active with pre-season discount promotions etc. I hope they worked up a good snowmaking budget - looks like they'll need it.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 30, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> They also have a family 4 pack for 130.00



Are they charging one $5.00 PER CARD shipping as Q Burke is?


----------



## MMP (Nov 30, 2015)

i tried to get three, just tried again and they limit it to 2 apparently.


----------



## billski (Nov 30, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> USA back where it belongs!


  They fixed it by tearing it out of the ground and then re-seating it?  Never would have expected that!


----------



## mtl1076 (Nov 30, 2015)

billski said:


> They fixed it by tearing it out of the ground and then re-seating it?  Never would have expected that!



It's probably a pivoting pole.  They just didn't free the mechanism up enough before cranking on it with heavy equipment.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 30, 2015)

White Out Pass on Cyber Monday..... $179. The opportunity to have a ski off with MMP.....priceless


----------



## Speedfreak (Nov 30, 2015)

MMP said:


> i tried to get three, just tried again and they limit it to 2 apparently.



Popping my AZ cherry to chime in. I was planning on grabbing a few until today's shitstorm (shanestorm?) erupted.  They've gone from us buying two passes and a pile of 3 packs to just one pass (mine) this year.  I'm totally confused.  Isn't the point of running a business generating revenue?  What a clusterfuck.




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## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

People went online to buy from the sale and they were out of stock.  So they turned business away. Probably just trying to avoid paying taxes on the profits. 

But the flag is nice.


----------



## prsboogie (Dec 1, 2015)

I guess it depends on how much you were trying to buy. I got one family pack no problem, didn't try to get more than that so i can't say if there were limits.


----------



## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

MMP said:


> People went online to buy from the sale and they were out of stock.  So they turned business away. Probably just trying to avoid paying taxes on the profits.
> 
> But the flag is nice.



It's certainly a start. Only two more poles!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

prsboogie said:


> I guess it depends on how much you were trying to buy. I got one family pack no problem, didn't try to get more than that so i can't say if there were limits.



No. They tried to buy one 3-pack and they were out of stock. But congrats on your purchase. 

The kid at Magic said they were putting more online at 6 last night, whatever that means.  Classically Magic to run out of stock for something like lift tickets on the largest online retail day of the year. They have an almost disdainful regard for the Internet and social media. They really don't understand it, that's evident.


----------



## tnt1234 (Dec 1, 2015)

Isn't it typical for mountains to limit these kind of promotions?


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## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

Run out on noon on the busiest day of the year for online sales, when you need cash to make snow?  Sounds right.


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## tnt1234 (Dec 1, 2015)

MMP said:


> Run out on noon on the busiest day of the year for online sales, when you need cash to make snow?  Sounds right.



Ha.  Yeah, fair point.


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## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm not piling on. I care about Magic and its sustainability. This makes me insane. 

I'm in business, and it irritates me when people make it hard for me to spend money at their place of business.


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## farlep99 (Dec 1, 2015)

MMP said:


> No. They tried to buy one 3-pack and they were out of stock. But congrats on your purchase.
> 
> The kid at Magic said they were putting more online at 6 last night, whatever that means.  Classically Magic to run out of stock for something like lift tickets on the largest online retail day of the year. They have an almost disdainful regard for the Internet and social media. They really don't understand it, that's evident.



I tried to buy a 3-pack at 3pm ish yesterday & the cyber monday price was 'out of stock.'  They never had more available after 6pm


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## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

farlep99 said:


> I tried to buy a 3-pack at 3pm ish yesterday & the cyber monday price was 'out of stock.'  They never had more available after 6pm



So, Stowe?


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## farlep99 (Dec 1, 2015)

tnt1234 said:


> Isn't it typical for mountains to limit these kind of promotions?



It is, but two things:

a. if you have a "cyber monday" price advertised, you should probably just keep that price for all of "cyber monday" so when people jump on to order in the middle of the afternoon you're not "out of stock."  They're not "out of stock"- they're not selling hard goods.

b. how many 3-packs do you really think they sold?  I doubt they were just going nuts selling shitloads & if they were, then great, let the $ keep rolling in even at a discounted rate - god knows they need as much upfront as possible for operations.   Seems crazy to turn down the early revenue.

As it worked out, I just got annoyed & said F*ck it.  Didn't buy anything- and I know others who did the same.

What's worse is what Speedfreak pointed out- Many people trying to buy 3-packs are former passholders/shareholders (myself included).


----------



## farlep99 (Dec 1, 2015)

MMP said:


> So, Stowe?



I guess.  I'll just sell some personal items


----------



## slatham (Dec 1, 2015)

FWIW, Mt Snow had a way worse Sh*$ show yesterday. They had Cyber Monday rates on a number of items, including 4 packs at $199. But they only had 300 before the price went up. Systems errors/issues prevented many people (including me) from getting into the site for about 10 minutes at which point the price was at $279! When people complained on FB the first response was to brag about how big the sale was etc etc. Then they referred people to Liftopia, who runs the site. No apology, just a passing of the buck.

I did not try to buy a 3 pack from Magic yesterday - I had already bought one on a Ski Show promo and had no issues and was actually impressed with the site and ease of purchase etc etc (I bough my pass last Spring).

IMHO such "special" rates are in fact limited. They decide they want to raise x dollars and sell enough to reach that goal. Then the price goes up or the promo is over. At the very least there is a deadline to purchase, like by Dec 1. 

If they needed more money for snowmaking I would expect them to have continued to sell at the promo rates. And based on the weather, they will need a big snowmaking budget!


----------



## Speedfreak (Dec 1, 2015)

farlep99 said:


> I guess.  I'll just sell some personal items



Bolton?


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## gmcunni (Dec 1, 2015)

slatham said:


> FWIW, Mt Snow had a way worse Sh*$ show yesterday. They had Cyber Monday rates on a number of items, including 4 packs at $199. But they only had 300 before the price went up. Systems errors/issues prevented many people (including me) from getting into the site for about 10 minutes at which point the price was at $279! When people complained on FB the first response was to brag about how big the sale was etc etc. Then they referred people to Liftopia, who runs the site. No apology, just a passing of the buck.



same fiasco last year. if you were online @ midnight you got good deal, by 7 am next morning sales were wiped out. very frustrating and turned me off... not that i didn't ski there anyway :-/


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## rocks860 (Dec 1, 2015)

I ordered the 3 pack on Friday and had no issues at all


----------



## prsboogie (Dec 1, 2015)

slatham said:


> FWIW, Mt Snow had a way worse Sh*$ show yesterday. They had Cyber Monday rates on a number of items, including 4 packs at $199. But they only had 300 before the price went up. Systems errors/issues prevented many people (including me) from getting into the site for about 10 minutes at which point the price was at $279! When people complained on FB the first response was to brag about how big the sale was etc etc. Then they referred people to Liftopia, who runs the site. No apology, just a passing of the buck.
> 
> I did not try to buy a 3 pack from Magic yesterday - I had already bought one on a Ski Show promo and had no issues and was actually impressed with the site and ease of purchase etc etc (I bough my pass last Spring).
> 
> ...



Took me 20 minutes to get me 12 tickets, wasn't fun but couldn't pass that up!


----------



## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

but i could give 2 shits about mt snow. mt snow sucks.  magic needs money (i assume sooner is better than later) and the people commenting here didnt get switched to a higher price that they paid, or to a different product. They clicked away. I hope they sold 300, that would be great. 




farlep99 said:


> I guess.  I'll just sell some personal items



i'll make you an offer on the Gibson



Speedfreak said:


> Bolton?


 yes

lets actually get a weekend that we're all up there. friday at stowe and saturday at bolton. maybe ski the woodward preserve if it snows. mrs mmp loves stowe.


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## Speedfreak (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm shooting up in the next few weeks to grab my MC pass at Stowe and finally tick off Burke.  Likely midweek.  Beers?  I'll hit you up.


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## MMP (Dec 1, 2015)

I'll ski Burke midweek. Lmk.


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## farlep99 (Dec 2, 2015)

Burke may not be open in the next few weeks...

I'm in for beers depending on location/time


----------



## PearlJam09 (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm just gonna leave this right here.  Wish it were about 25 degrees colder out there today.  All photos were taken at Magic Mountain.



Powder Day at Magic by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr




Powder day at Magic Mountain by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr





Powder Day by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr




20140103-Magic-0298 by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr





Magic Powder Day by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr





20140103-Magic-0018 by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr





20140103-Magic-0353 by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr





20140103-Magic-0086 by Jacob Kravitz, on Flickr


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## billski (Dec 2, 2015)

God, I remember those magical, rare east coast days.  Not only were there no friends, it was hard to FIND your friends!   I sure have a lot of fire kindling to offer Ullr for this year.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Dec 2, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> I'm just gonna leave this right here.  Wish it were about 25 degrees colder out there today.  All photos were taken at Magic Mountain.
> 
> Great photo stoke! #FREEJAKE


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 3, 2015)

"We're excited to announce another weekend of great sales on our new online store with 3-Packs, one day tickets, Alpine Club Programs, and tubing season passes are all heavily discounted now through Sunday, December 6th. 
*All deals are in stock now and will be available all weekend, no stock limits.* "


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 4, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> "We're excited to announce another weekend of great sales on our new online store with 3-Packs, one day tickets, Alpine Club Programs, and tubing season passes are all heavily discounted now through Sunday, December 6th.
> *All deals are in stock now and will be available all weekend, no stock limits.* "



Wow maybe someone's actually listening


----------



## tnt1234 (Dec 8, 2015)

Forecast is depressing.  Looks like I'll get to go to Magic....and ski Bromely!  

Crap.

Ok, so, coming up from the south, have a room at Magic between X-mas and NY for two nights with three strong skiing kids.  Only skiing two days.  Given the dismal forecast, here is what I am thinking - suggestions/thoughts welcomed.

day one - drive to Bromely - thought being it will be less crowded and it's 10 minutes down the road.  Alternative would be a longer drive to Okemo or Stratton?  Just imagining they will be packed.

Day two  - drive south to Snow - will be crowded, but this is on the way home, so makes sense logistically.  If we have a good day at Bromley could just repeat that.


It just really seems like the 10 day forecast is not looking good.  Yet, I called a few mountains and people aren't canceling....I guess you can't if you lock in with the family.....

Ug.  Come on snow....


----------



## Tin (Dec 8, 2015)

Keep the faith. All the discussion on "above average" winters and such is from a lot of individuals who don't understand basic statistics and are making ridiculous inferences. It is New England, 65* one day, 3' of snow two days later. That being said, I really hope for Magic's financial sake they are able to have a decent few holiday weeks.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 8, 2015)

Trying to find a house to rent February break near Magic. Anyone have a good rental contact?


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 8, 2015)

VRBO or home away


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## Speedfreak (Dec 12, 2015)

Hey Tnt, Stratton is just as in your way home going "south" and sucks way less than Snow crowd wise, especially  in a shit snow year.  Better yet, do two at the Brom and I'll give you a tour if there's anything beyond groomers.  If it's just groomers I'll give you a tour of the bar and loan you my spare monoski.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## BabyGuinness (Dec 13, 2015)

BLACK LINE TAVERN WILL BE OPEN!...Friday & Saturday night December 18th & 19th!!
Saturday they will be hosting a "Snow Dance" party. 
Acoustic with Brett Casavant 4-7pm followed by  RADIO FLYER performing on stage!! Stop by and check out our live entertainment and enjoy a COLD beverage and some light fare.
Let the SNOW dancing begin!


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## BabyGuinness (Dec 13, 2015)

BTW...Black Line Tavern  is on Facebook for updates, entertainment and specials throughout the season!
Ski ya!


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 14, 2015)

BabyGuinness said:


> BLACK LINE TAVERN WILL BE OPEN!...Friday & Saturday night December 18th & 19th!!
> Saturday they will be hosting a "Snow Dance" party.
> Acoustic with Brett Casavant 4-7pm followed by  RADIO FLYER performing on stage!! Stop by and check out our live entertainment and enjoy a COLD beverage and some light fare.
> Let the SNOW dancing begin!



Thanks for the update.  We will see you there.  Nice to see plans have not been change.


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## tnt1234 (Dec 14, 2015)

Speedfreak said:


> Hey Tnt, Stratton is just as in your way home going "south" and sucks way less than Snow crowd wise, especially  in a shit snow year.  Better yet, do two at the Brom and I'll give you a tour if there's anything beyond groomers.  If it's just groomers I'll give you a tour of the bar and loan you my spare monoski.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Thanks - 

Yeah, I'm thinking Bromley will be the least crowded option. See you at the bar - I'll look for the guy with the mono-ski.  I'll have snow blades around my neck.


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## Magic (Dec 15, 2015)

Is there a reason Magic's FB page is now "Magic Mountain Resorts" ?


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 16, 2015)

Magic said:


> Is there a reason Magic's FB page is now "Magic Mountain Resorts" ?



Same reason it's now that on the website.  Nobody knows.  Rather confusing seeing as Magic Mountain Resort in Idaho got 18" yesterday.


----------



## makimono (Dec 16, 2015)

Magic Mountain Resorts LLC - is this a signal of another ownership change?

How many corporations have been created to run/own/manage Magic? They're probably just running out of names to use.

I do like the plurality of it though...nice touch, think big!


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

Magic Mountain Resorts, LLC was created in July, 2014.  The Registered Agent and Principal is Thomas Barker.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 16, 2015)

has the red lift passed inspection?  how about the handle tows?


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## xwhaler (Dec 16, 2015)

Does Magic blow snow this wknd with great temps forecasted? The issue being how warm it will get next week.
i.e. do they take the chance that a good portion of it melts?
They said that they need 5 days to blow T2B route---I count 4 this coming wknd (Friday-Monday)....maybe they lose a day's worth next week so have to make up 2 starting 12/26 or sometime thereafter?

It will be interesting to see the decision that is made----to see how much they try and capture some of the holiday week revenue.
If they don;t blow this weekend I think it may be a smart business decision to preserve funds but it very likely removes any chance of opening and getting vaca week revenue.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Does Magic blow snow this wknd with great temps forecasted? The issue being how warm it will get next week.


That's a really tough call.  I think it boils down to how much snow will melt once it warms up.  Since they don't have a base at all and the ground is warm, I would be willing to bet that they will lose a lot.  If it were me, I wouldn't blow snow unless I could get enough down to have a trail open over Christmas.

While they will miss Christmas week if they don't blow, I'm not sure how busy a week it will be anyway.  People are cancelling reservations left and right.


----------



## Magic (Dec 16, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> That's a really tough call.  I think it boils down to how much snow will melt once it warms up.  Since they don't have a base at all and the ground is warm, I would be willing to bet that they will lose a lot.  If it were me, I wouldn't blow snow unless I could get enough down to have a trail open over Christmas.
> 
> While they will miss Christmas week if they don't blow, I'm not sure how busy a week it will be anyway.  People are cancelling reservations left and right.



Looks like the money will be made in the bar this Xmas week. One shotski = $50-$60.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 16, 2015)

Back to a "Ski Area"


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## makimono (Dec 16, 2015)

haha are they watching the internets? I vote for Magic Mountain Resortzzz


----------



## Magic (Dec 16, 2015)

makimono said:


> haha are they watching the internets? I vote for Magic Mountain Resortzzz



If anyone is listening " Magic Mountain Ski Resort" sounds a bit classier


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 16, 2015)

Really?  Classy for Idaho

http://www.magicmountainresort.com/


----------



## SIKSKIER (Dec 16, 2015)

Thats in Idaho


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 16, 2015)

Exactly.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

They really need to work on their trail map.
http://www.magicmountainresort.com/Mountain


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## Newpylong (Dec 16, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Does Magic blow snow this wknd with great temps forecasted? The issue being how warm it will get next week.
> i.e. do they take the chance that a good portion of it melts?
> They said that they need 5 days to blow T2B route---I count 4 this coming wknd (Friday-Monday)....maybe they lose a day's worth next week so have to make up 2 starting 12/26 or sometime thereafter?
> 
> ...



If that is true it is the same amount of time as Whaleback - about 100 snowmaking hours. This coming weekend at least in Central NH will only allow for snowmaking at night Sat + Sun (Fri is trending too humid), so it is a tough call. I expect it to be worse in Southern VT. Up here Whaleback is going to make snow but only expects to open the learning area in that time period. Tough call for Magic... will they do the same or hold off? TTB is out of the question and next week looks abysmal. If there is any good news it's that from 12/27 on the over night lows look mighty tasty.


----------



## WoodCore (Dec 16, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Does Magic blow snow this wknd with great temps forecasted? The issue being how warm it will get next week.
> i.e. do they take the chance that a good portion of it melts?
> They said that they need 5 days to blow T2B route---I count 4 this coming wknd (Friday-Monday)....maybe they lose a day's worth next week so have to make up 2 starting 12/26 or sometime thereafter? It will be interesting to see the decision that is made----to see how  much they try and capture some of the holiday week revenue.
> If they don;t blow this weekend I think it may be a smart business  decision to preserve funds but it very likely removes any chance of  opening and getting vaca week revenue.





If they do make snow they should focus their efforts on the "tubing" park area. They'll never be able to open a TTB route in 3 days but could salvage some revenue by opening the tubing park and a rail/jib park. Could very well be the only tubing operation open in the east. Seems to me with the skiing anticipated to be crappy they'll be a bunch of parents looking to do something with the kids. It's a win for everyone, the kiddos get to tube and expel some energy and mom/dad can relax and throw a couple back at the BLBP. :idea:


----------



## slatham (Dec 16, 2015)

IF the forecasted warmth for next week is still in the forecast as of this weekend when its time to turn the guns on, I agree with WoodCore that they should only make snow on the Tubing area (ok, maybe the beginner area). I for one - and my 3 kids and my friends 3 kids - would likely make the trek over to tube. The reality is that they will not have enough time this weekend to cover T2B and will lose too much next week and who knows whether another window long/cold enough will appear over the holidays. So they could make a lot of snow on Trick/Show Off and have nothing to show for it.

Now if the forecast starts trending colder, and gives an indication of snowmaking cold coming around the weekend of the 26th, then they should go for it. But this is going to be a tough call and will be criticized regardless! 

While I don't have data on this, in my experience over the years Magic's skier visits are very back-end loaded in the season. So lets hope things turn before MLK and particularly Presidents week.


----------



## tnt1234 (Dec 16, 2015)

Only hop is that 10 day forecast changes by more than 10F...doesn't seem likely, does it?

I'm still holding on to my reservation, but expect to cancel and try to find something further north, which is really only has marginally better prospects.

What a drag.


----------



## xwhaler (Dec 16, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> If that is true it is the same amount of time as Whaleback - about 100 snowmaking hours. This coming weekend at least in Central NH will only allow for snowmaking at night Sat + Sun (Fri is trending too humid), so it is a tough call. I expect it to be worse in Southern VT. Up here Whaleback is going to make snow but only expects to open the learning area in that time period. Tough call for Magic... will they do the same or hold off? TTB is out of the question and next week looks abysmal. If there is any good news it's that from 12/27 on the over night lows look mighty tasty.



So Whaleback learning area by 12/26 with T2B hopefully by the new yr if night temps are good from 12/27 on?
Friday 1/1 would be a decent goal I would think---not sure how realistic.
My son's program starts 1/10 up there so good to hear it looks like it won't be delayed.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 16, 2015)

1/10 should not be a problem. 1/1 all depends on how much they can do during the day after 12/27 - it looks like it might only be nights for a bit. Time will tell!

Pray for cold temps - go local ski areas!


----------



## skithetrees (Dec 16, 2015)

Most of the people who ski there over the holiday week are, in my estimation, pass holders. It's just not worth it for the marginal revenue. If anything, they should blow the top as that ha a better chance of sticking around and will cut down on time to open once the weather turns.


----------



## Magic (Dec 16, 2015)

Pre-purchased tix for Bromley, Stratton and Okemo early on in the year for this very reason. Not expecting much at any of these mountains but it will keep the kids busy even with a few trails open    I think I will break out the canoe and go fishing at Lowell Lake.


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 16, 2015)

Not a heck of a lot.


----------



## slatham (Dec 17, 2015)

Steamboat, that could be said of every eastern area right now. Its not a happy ski season thus far.......


----------



## Do Work (Dec 17, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Does Magic blow snow this wknd with great temps forecasted? The issue being how warm it will get next week.
> i.e. do they take the chance that a good portion of it melts?
> They said that they need 5 days to blow T2B route---I count 4 this coming wknd (Friday-Monday)....maybe they lose a day's worth next week so have to make up 2 starting 12/26 or sometime thereafter?
> 
> ...




Well as of their original statement, they were intending to start operations on the 18th iirc.  I know they are chomping at the bit to open, they view the holiday periods as a major recouping point (as they should) and likely would be willing to take a hit to the snowmaking budget just to get people on the hill and spending money in the bar and kitchen.  ESPECIALLY over the long holiday. 


Just my .02 though.  MAN I wish we could get a little help from Ma Nature and Ullr.  Ugh.


----------



## Do Work (Dec 17, 2015)

skithetrees said:


> Most of the people who ski there over the holiday week are, in my estimation, pass holders. It's just not worth it for the marginal revenue. If anything, they should blow the top as that ha a better chance of sticking around and will cut down on time to open once the weather turns.





You're vastly underestimating how much magic skiers drink.


----------



## wtcobb (Dec 17, 2015)

Do Work said:


> You're vastly underestimating how much magic skiers drink.



Did their investments for the lodge include another Shotski? If so, they're plenty good on revenue for the year.


----------



## skithetrees (Dec 17, 2015)

Do Work said:


> You're vastly underestimating how much magic skiers drink.



But aren't they there anyway at the end of the day no matter where they ski?  You know better than I do though, so I will take your word for it!


----------



## skithetrees (Dec 17, 2015)

On an unrelated note, I was just checking out Okeno's report to see how other mountains are fairing. Only 16 trails, wow!  But impressively, they say they can cover the whole mountain in 10 days if the weather cooperates. That's pretty incredible. Who knows how deep that cover is, but impressive nonetheless.


----------



## Hado226 (Dec 17, 2015)

Do Work said:


> You're vastly underestimating how much magic skiers drink.


So true. I've long said Magic is a Tavern/Bar with a (sometimes 2) ski lift(s). Pretty sure all revenue models reflect that priority.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## MMP (Dec 18, 2015)

Magic is a drinking hill with a skiing problem. 

I'm a BYOB guy this year!! Going full "get amped" with the lunch.


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 18, 2015)

wtcobb said:


> Did their investments for the lodge include another Shotski? If so, they're plenty good on revenue for the year.



Youreally asking the right person. The current shotski was crafted by DoWork.


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 18, 2015)

Hado226 said:


> So true. I've long said Magic is a Tavern/Bar with a (sometimes 2) ski lift(s). Pretty sure all revenue models reflect that priority.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



Well I'm there the whole week so my liver is hoping for some snow so it can catch a break.


----------



## Tin (Dec 18, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Well I'm there the whole week so my liver is hoping for some snow so it can catch a break.




You should condition it for when we come up again.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 18, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Well I'm there the whole week so my liver is hoping for some snow so it can catch a break.



Instagram says they are opening tomorrow, though the Alpine Update on 12/13 disagrees with that.  The good news was that the warm weather was going to give them more time to work on the Shed Deck and that it is going to open early!  It was originally scheduled to open tomorrow, so that should be good to go today, right?  

It also said that the warm weather will allow their IT guy to work on the new website. As MMP pointed out, it is often colder in the lodge than it is outside, so maybe he is sitting on the new Shed Deck using the new Free WiFi and staying warm while he updates the website?  

Sounds like there are a ton of projects up there on or ahead of schedule!

Hoping for a change in the weather soon.  Can't wait to see all the progress!


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 18, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Instagram says they are opening tomorrow, though the Alpine Update on 12/13 disagrees with that.  The good news was that the warm weather was going to give them more time to work on the Shed Deck and that it is going to open early!  It was originally scheduled to open tomorrow, so that should be good to go today, right?
> 
> It also said that the warm weather will allow their IT guy to work on the new website. As MMP pointed out, it is often colder in the lodge than it is outside, so maybe he is sitting on the new Shed Deck using the new Free WiFi and staying warm while he updates the website?
> 
> ...



Maybe they could blow snow in the cold lodge and transport it outside


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> You should condition it for when we come up again.



Lol don't wait too long or it could suffer from overtraining.


----------



## Tin (Dec 18, 2015)

HA! Erika has been working on her dance moves. You should too.


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> HA! Erika has been working on her dance moves. You should too.



Then I need to wear some padding for her moves lmao!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Dec 19, 2015)

Alpine Update 12/13: "Mother Nature must be saving all the snow and cold weather for 2016. Due to the unusually warm weather expected to continue through next week, we are delaying Opening Day until December 26th. We are hoping to begin snowmaking on December 18th on Trick and Showoff to open the Red Chair as soon as possible for holiday vacation week. Line work continues on the Black Chair; updates coming soon!"

Is it soon yet? any state inspections completed? Snowmaking ready?


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 19, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Due to the unusually warm weather expected to continue through next week, we are delaying Opening Day until December 26th.



Fat chance at that happening.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 19, 2015)

12/26? :blink:  I'm thinking more like first week of Jan.


----------



## slatham (Dec 20, 2015)

Yes the only chance for 12/26 opening was to put enough snow down this weekend to open with, and assume it survives this weeks April weather. Given no indication of snowmaking - and lets face it this cold snap wasn't long enough anyhow - they have effectively given up on the 26th. Probably a wise decision, but I am a little surprised that they didn't make snow on the tubing hill. 

From what I see on the models, unless we luck out with the storm around the 29th (I'd say 50-50 right now), I doubt they can open Red prior to New Years. Yes, they'll be able to make snow but it will take at least until New Years to open. Good news is that there are strong indications from all models that the pattern begins to change around New Years and hope remains for the core of the winter. THINK SNOW!!!!


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## Do Work (Dec 21, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Youreally asking the right person. The current shotski was crafted by DoWork.





I just finished epoxying back together a huge 235cm jumping ski that I got for free because someone exploded the tip.  Going to put 6 brackets on it for a shotski, so it'll be one drunkard bigger than the K2 hellbent shotski there now.  It's kind of my downlow stimulus plan.  Hope it helps!


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 21, 2015)

Do Work said:


> I just finished epoxying back together a huge 235cm jumping ski that I got for free because someone exploded the tip.  Going to put 6 brackets on it for a shotski, so it'll be one drunkard bigger than the K2 hellbent shotski there now.  It's kind of my downlow stimulus plan.  Hope it helps!



nice! Hopefully they price it the same. Buy 5 get 1 free!


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## tnt1234 (Dec 21, 2015)

I think I'm canceling my room in southern vt and driving to stowe.

Not looking forward to the long drive for two days, but I think it's the best chance for some half decent skiing. 

Okemo has a lot open, and heard Stratton is skiing fairly well, but I just have to believe those two are gonna be jammed over the holidays, with such little terrain....

Not that Stowe won't be packed, but I think it will be slightly less so.


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## wtcobb (Dec 22, 2015)

Facebook post about not opening until January.



> Mother Nature gave us a glimpse of good things to come with a dusting of  snow over the weekend, but here in Londonderry it is back to  unseasonably warm temps and rain for now. Sadly, the weather forecast  has this warm trend continuing through Christmas and into next week.  After meeting with our snowmaking team this morning we are delaying  opening day until January 2016. Once the cold temperatures move in we  will have all our snowguns firing on Trick to Showoff to get open as  soon as possible with the Red Chair. Stay tuned for more updates and a  specific opening date.


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## slatham (Dec 22, 2015)

Not surprising. If they are relying on snowmaking to open they need several days of great temps to get open. So even if those temps do materialize next Monday/Tuesday its Jan by the time they can open.

The hail mary wild card is the storm next week. Models are indicating there could be some snow (mindful this is a week away) but if they were to get some miracle base building snow (think last years mid December dump of cement) then they could open earlier. But this is a unicorn, pigs flying, big foot sighting, etc type of event.

More consistency in the models and teleconnections that the pattern will change as we head into Jan. Maybe not below normal temps but right now normal would be very, very welcome.

THINK SNOW!!!!


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## makimono (Dec 22, 2015)

Damn...not what Magic needed (or anywhere...but especially Magic). I'll have to see if they'll transfer my non-transferable Liftopia tickets into January.


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## dlague (Dec 22, 2015)

Just took a look at VT, NH, ME and NY and there is quite a list of unopened ski areas.  I assume very little is open in CT, MA, and PA as well.  This seems unprecedented and the worst part, many will not open until 2016.  Wow, just WOW! 

*VT*
Suicide Six
Magic Mountain
Bolton Valley
Mad River Glen
Q Burke Mountain Resorts
Pico Mountain

*NH*
Black Mountain
Granite Gorge
Crotched Mountain
King Pine
Gunstock
Dartmouth Skiway
Attitash
Tenney Mountain
Whaleback Mountain

*ME*
Big Squaw Mountain Ski Resort
Camden Snow Bowl
Lost Valley
Mt. Jefferson
New Hermon Mountain
Saddleback
Shawnee Peak

*NY*
Tuxedo Ridge at Sterling Forest
Titus Mountain
Holimont Ski Area
Willard Mountain
West Mountain
Mount Peter Ski Area
Labrador Mt.
Brantling Ski Slopes
Oak Mountain
Woods Valley Ski Area
Swain
Song Mountain
Snow Ridge
Greek Peak
Plattekill Mountain
Royal Mountain Ski Area
Peek'n Peak
McCauley Mountain Ski Center
Maple Ski Ridge
Dry Hill Ski Area
Catamount
Holiday Mountain
Toggenburg Mountain
Kissing Bridge
Hunt Hollow Ski Club
Thunder Ridge
Buffalo Ski Club Ski Area
Hickory Ski Center


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2015)

dlague said:


> Just took a look at VT, NH, ME and NY and there is quite a list of unopened ski areas.  I assume very little is open in CT, MA, and PA as well.  This seems unprecedented and the worst part, many will not open until 2016.  Wow, just WOW!
> 
> *VT*
> Suicide Six
> ...



Not that very many people have access to it, but you can add The Hermitage Club to the list of unopened VT areas.  And the rumor that I heard from a reliable source is that when they can finish making enough snow to open (and depending on how much "damage" this weeks blowtorch does it could be just a day or 2 of snowmaking to open with what they've made already), that it still might be mid to late January before their new 6 pack heated bubble opens because of a bit of an oversight in it's main power line......


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## deadheadskier (Dec 22, 2015)

No Middlebury in VT as well, all the community hills in NH like Abenaki.....

My best friend owns a restaurant in Stowe Village.  Apparently the Green Mountain Inn has gone from 94% occupancy down to 65% as of yesterday.  I bet they drop below 50% at the rate things are going.


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## slatham (Dec 22, 2015)

It better be a good MLK and Presidents.........


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 22, 2015)

slatham said:


> It better be a good MLK and Presidents.........



Well, you're the weatherman, so get on it!


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## yeggous (Dec 22, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Well, you're the weatherman, so get on it!



No, that's me. I'll work on it though.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## WWF-VT (Dec 22, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Not that very many people have access to it, but you can add The Hermitage Club to the list of unopened VT areas.  And the rumor that I heard from a reliable source is that when they can finish making enough snow to open (and depending on how much "damage" this weeks blowtorch does it could be just a day or 2 of snowmaking to open with what they've made already), that it still might be mid to late January before their new 6 pack heated bubble opens because of a bit of an oversight in it's main power line......



Unless you shelled out big bucks to be a member - who cares if The Hermitage Club isn't open and about the delayed opening of a heated 6 pack.


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## slatham (Dec 23, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> Well, you're the weatherman, so get on it!



I'm trying I'm trying. If I could only control the weather!!

But next week is getting more and more interesting, as is Jan.......


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## slatham (Dec 23, 2015)

yeggous, you a real weatherman? I am just a weather nut who studied meteorology - and pays for a couple of "pro" sites to get more data. Love to have a true pro chime in with their thoughts!


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## yeggous (Dec 23, 2015)

slatham said:


> yeggous, you a real weatherman? I am just a weather nut who studied meteorology - and pays for a couple of "pro" sites to get more data. Love to have a true pro chime in with their thoughts!



Yes, I even have a PhD specializing in mountain meteorology. You could argue that two months ago I stopped being an meteorologist and sold out. I just started a more lucrative job working for a mapping company. Up until then I worked on weather and climate risk for insurance services and supply chain.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## slatham (Dec 23, 2015)

Very cool. I am sure you changed careers to feed your ski addiction 

Have you seen the GFS and Euro ensemble 500M maps for Jan 2nd? Looks like the opposite of now - pattern change coming. Hope it locks in. Come on baby!!!


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 23, 2015)

Next Tuesday looking interesting???


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## slatham (Dec 23, 2015)

Next Tuesday, we are hoping so. Still lots of time, too much time.......


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## tnt1234 (Dec 23, 2015)

i just bailed on southern vt., and will be heading to stowe/jay for monday tues.  Largely based on colder temps up north on sunday maybe creating a little snow?  

Hoping tuesdays snow comes early in the day while we are skiing.  Not sure we could shift to wednesday if it actually comes through.

But forecasts seem to favor norther VT for slightly colder temps between now and then.  Can drive yourself crazy trying to catch a few good days.....


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## tnt1234 (Dec 23, 2015)

dup. post...


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## dlague (Dec 23, 2015)

So ...  Ride and Ski NE cancelled their event (tour stop and party) at Magic on December 26th.  I guess they think no one will show up with out snow and chairs running.  Go figure!


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## tnt1234 (Dec 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> So ...  Ride and Ski NE cancelled their event (tour stop and party) at Magic on December 26th.  I guess they think no one will show up with out snow and chairs running.  Go figure!



Prudent.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 23, 2015)

I can't get a hold of anyone at Magic to find out but does anyone know if they are planning to anything for those of us who have the White Out pass? I just lost half the days I can ski.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 23, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I can't get a hold of anyone at Magic to find out but does anyone know if they are planning to anything for those of us who have the White Out pass? I just lost half the days I can ski.



Did you call the office?


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## wtcobb (Dec 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> So ...  Ride and Ski NE cancelled their event (tour stop and party) at Magic on December 26th.  I guess they think no one will show up with out snow and chairs running.  Go figure!



But the tavern is open...


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> Just took a look at VT, NH, ME and NY and there is quite a list of unopened ski areas.  I assume very little is open in CT, MA, and PA as well.  This seems unprecedented and the worst part, many will not open until 2016.  Wow, just WOW!
> 
> *VT*
> Suicide Six
> ...



Puke.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 25, 2015)

Sad. 55 F in Orono, Maine.


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 26, 2015)

Looking forward to this being covered with snow on Tuesday. And, Magic fb page says snowmaking starts Sunday. Big week ahead...


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 27, 2015)

Are the lifts done and inspected yet?


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## zoomzoom (Dec 27, 2015)

you're the third to ask, no reply from MM as yet.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 28, 2015)

oompaloompa said:


> you're the third to ask, no reply from MM as yet.



Well heck, it IS almost January for crying out loud. Guess I'll scratch Magic off the ever shortening "To Visit" list for this winter.


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## Tin (Dec 28, 2015)

Now snowmaking problems according to FB. Need all the natural stuff they can get now.


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## slatham (Dec 28, 2015)

That would explain why there's no snowmaking visible looking from Bromley. Very unfortunate given limited snowmaking windows. Guess it's the first weekend of Jan without some surprise dump.


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## WWF-VT (Dec 28, 2015)

Which mountain will open first this season - Magic, Burke or Saddleback ?


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## prsboogie (Dec 28, 2015)

Saddleback ftw


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 28, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> Which mountain will open first this season - Magic, Burke or Saddleback ?



The way things are going, none of them will yet be open a year from now... file all 3 under "Epic Fail" for this year.


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## The Sneak (Dec 28, 2015)

Can't believe it was only recently that I thought about buying a 1 bed condo at Magic.

Why so much radio silence and or incompetence and or dishonesty from the owners and management? 

Why can't anyone ever get a straight story?






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## prsboogie (Dec 28, 2015)

The Sneak said:


> Can't believe it was only recently that I thought about buying a 1 bed condo at Magic.
> 
> Why so much radio silence and or incompetence and or dishonesty from the owners and management?
> 
> ...



I looked at them but the association fees were HIGH for not much to offer other than being on mountain.


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## ss20 (Dec 28, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> Which mountain will open first this season - Magic, Burke or Saddleback ?




Post of the year right there folks.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 28, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> Which mountain will open first this season - Magic, Burke or Saddleback ?



Balsams for the win.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Balsams for the win.



:lol:

Still regretting that I did not ski there when I had the opportunity. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> Which mountain will open first this season - Magic, Burke or Saddleback ?



Sad but true. This might be the season that breaks Q.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 28, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Sad but true. This might be the season that breaks Q.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




There is only one person to point to for that: Stenger. He brought in the Q crew and more BS development without first taking care of the ski product. Burke Mountain.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 28, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Balsams for the win.





thetrailboss said:


> :lol:
> 
> Still regretting that I did not ski there when I had the opportunity.



Wouldn't doubt they fair the best out of this storm.


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## MMP (Dec 29, 2015)

Anyone get their family-4, or 3-packs that were purchased on cybermonday yet?


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## Tin (Dec 29, 2015)

They are in the mail along with the lift certification documents...


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## rocks860 (Dec 29, 2015)

I got my 3 pack of tickets for 109 last week


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## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

Hey everyone, this is Shane, Director of Marketing for Magic. I wanted to get in here and clear the air as I do religiously read this thread and those on other sites to see what the general skiing public is thinking. It's a great way to see both the good and bad. Unfortunately, like many other Vermont mountains, Magic has had a tough start to the season. On Sunday night a transformer blew out and that cost us our first good snowmaking window of the season. It was not our pump that went. Green Mountain Power has since come out and made the necessary repairs to resolve the problem. Our snowmakers plan to get out later this week and into the weekend and get the guns going. The Red Chair is just about ready to go and will be certified very, very soon, we need to raise the counterweight and that requires a crane to come in, which has been scheduled. Black will be ready a couple weeks after the final touches are completed. The delay on Black is a result of having all hands on deck to complete the Red Chair in time for opening day. Speaking of opening day, based on my last conversation with our top snowmakers we hope to open January 9th. I apologize for all the confusion and frustration that surrounds the mountain and we are working to make things much smoother for our customers.


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## prsboogie (Dec 29, 2015)

MMP said:


> Anyone get their family-4, or 3-packs that were purchased on cybermonday yet?



Got my 4 pack last week


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## Smellytele (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> Hey everyone, this is Shane, Director of Marketing for Magic. I wanted to get in here and clear the air as I do religiously read this thread and those on other sites to see what the general skiing public is thinking. It's a great way to see both the good and bad. Unfortunately, like many other Vermont mountains, Magic has had a tough start to the season. On Sunday night a transformer blew out and that cost us our first good snowmaking window of the season. It was not our pump that went. Green Mountain Power has since come out and made the necessary repairs to resolve the problem. Our snowmakers plan to get out later this week and into the weekend and get the guns going. The Red Chair is just about ready to go and will be certified very, very soon, we need to raise the counterweight and that requires a crane to come in, which has been scheduled. Black will be ready a couple weeks after the final touches are completed. The delay on Black is a result of having all hands on deck to complete the Red Chair in time for opening day. Speaking of opening day, based on my last conversation with our top snowmakers we hope to open January 9th. I apologize for all the confusion and frustration that surrounds the mountain and we are working to make things much smoother for our customers.



This is great communication. Thanks for the update on everything. While it will please some to have this info others you will never please.


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## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

Thank you for the positive feedback! Anyone that has questions, please feel free to ask away and I will try my best to get an answer for you from the appropriate manager or the GM. We really are trying to give you the customer a better skiing product and once we open we hope to see everyone on the slopes. Think more snow!


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## Tin (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> Hey everyone, this is Shane, Director of Marketing for Magic. I wanted to get in here and clear the air as I do religiously read this thread and those on other sites to see what the general skiing public is thinking. It's a great way to see both the good and bad. Unfortunately, like many other Vermont mountains, Magic has had a tough start to the season. On Sunday night a transformer blew out and that cost us our first good snowmaking window of the season. It was not our pump that went. Green Mountain Power has since come out and made the necessary repairs to resolve the problem. Our snowmakers plan to get out later this week and into the weekend and get the guns going. The Red Chair is just about ready to go and will be certified very, very soon, we need to raise the counterweight and that requires a crane to come in, which has been scheduled. Black will be ready a couple weeks after the final touches are completed. The delay on Black is a result of having all hands on deck to complete the Red Chair in time for opening day. Speaking of opening day, based on my last conversation with our top snowmakers we hope to open January 9th. I apologize for all the confusion and frustration that surrounds the mountain and we are working to make things much smoother for our customers.




Yesterday it was "a pump issue" which was then redacted and changed to an electrical issue. Green Mountain Power listed no outages or issues in Londonderry, so who is wrong there?

How long has the counterweight been an issue for? The initial opening day claims were December 19th, then 26th; would the chairs have been ready to go then? Why bother claiming you would be open if things were still so far away and no lifts were ready? 

No more brown bags up stairs? People go to Magic to avoid this type of resort stuff. Why the change?

Why not just be open and say X.Y,Z needs to be fixed on Red prior to opening instead of stringing customers along with "planned" opening dates? Look at Tenney's FB page and the following they have received from the honest, and up front, communication.

Why does asking a simple question in a respectful manner (such as lift certification, opening, etc.) on Facebook once amount to a banning from the FB page? I've witnessed this several times now with some of Magic's most faithful.


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## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

Tin said:


> Yesterday it was "a pump issue" which was then redacted and changed to an electrical issue. Green Mountain Power listed no outages or issues in Londonderry, so who is wrong there?
> 
> How long has the counterweight been an issue for? The initial opening day claims were December 19th, then 26th; would the chairs have been ready to go then? Why bother claiming you would be open if things were still so far away and no lifts were ready?
> 
> ...



The transformer that blew feeds our pumps here at the mountain. To be honest I'm not sure if they would have listed the problem on their site as it was very isolated. Good news here is that they did send a team out to get us back up and running.

As to the lifts, had mother nature been kinder to us and brought today's weather a month ago we would have been ready to go. When it became clear we would not be able to open our teams were put on a bunch of other projects. If it were a situation were the snow was on the hill I assure you at the very least the Red Chair would be spinning. Black needs a new bumper guard on the base station and a summit bullwheel alignment in addition to some line work. 

As to "brown bags" upstairs policy, we are restricting brown bags from the Black Line Tavern only, not the entire floor. This is in an effort to decongest the immediate area around the bar and free up some space for people at the bar. 

We are working towards a more open line of communication, this is actually the start of it. What the team at Tenney has been able to do on such a short timetable is really incredible and we hope to follow their lead in many ways.


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## Tin (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> As to the lifts, had mother nature been kinder to us and brought today's weather a month ago we would have been ready to go. When it became clear we would not be able to open our teams were put on a bunch of other projects. If it were a situation were the snow was on the hill I assure you at the very least the Red Chair would be spinning. Black needs a new bumper guard on the base station and a summit bullwheel alignment in addition to some line work.



Lifts ready to go? But the lifts have yet to be certified even as of today. Could they have been certified weeks ago even with the counterweight issue or no? When was this problem found, recently or months ago? Was manpower put elsewhere because of the weather?


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 29, 2015)

Not trying to insult you MagicSales, but if the lifts weren't completely finished and inspected, then you don't pull the crews off to do "other work" until they were. It may be the truth, but it shows that IF we had ski-able conditions earlier in the season, then the lifts wouldn't have been ready then either.

Too bad they waited until the last minute to fire up and test the snow-making system, or the problem may have been found earlier.

Anyhow, I'm sure we all wish you luck and hope everything comes together for a successful remainder of the season. Improved communications will definitely prove to make people happier, and quiet the rumor mill down a few notches.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> I do religiously read this thread and those on other sites to see what the general skiing public is thinking. It's a great way to see both the good and bad.
> 
> The Red Chair is just about ready to go and will be certified very, very soon, we need to raise the counterweight and that requires a crane to come in, which has been scheduled. Black will be ready a couple weeks after the final touches are completed.



Knowing that the Black Chair was _SCHEDULED_ to be open on December 19th when the mountain was supposed to open, and the SHED DECK was also _SCHEDULED_ to open on December 19th, and the new website was _SCHEDULED_ to be released on December 23rd, and *NONE* of those things happened, please tell us exactly when the crane is _SCHEDULED_ to come in and complete the raising of the counterweight.

If you really want to know what we're thinking, how about you _SCHEDULE_ a town hall meeting so that people can ask you questions in person.  See if you can get Tom to show up as well...


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## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

The Red would have been ready to go had we been able to open sooner with better weather. Of course we have had one of the warmest December in history here in Vermont, which has not helped us get to that point.

Out on The Shed Deck we are waiting for a visit from The Shed's marketing team to fully outfit both levels of the deck outside Black Line Tavern. The new window bar inside was part of these upgrades and has been completed. We are excited to welcome in the brewery's team after the new year and I know they can't wait to get going. 

Our new website has been delayed while the telephone system is being upgraded, which was desperately needed. We were able to launch our new online store in time for the holidays, unfortunately orders have been delayed and we do apologize for that. 

I'll see if I can get the exact day the crane will be visiting Magic and get back to you guys.


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## The Sneak (Dec 29, 2015)

You know what?

I very much appreciate this guy coming on here and providing answers, whether we like the answers or not. 

Let's hope all of the above happens and it snows. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> The Red would have been ready to go had we been able to open sooner with better weather. Of course we have had one of the warmest December in history here in Vermont, which has not helped us get to that point.
> 
> Out on The Shed Deck we are waiting for a visit from The Shed's marketing team to fully outfit both levels of the deck outside Black Line Tavern. The new window bar inside was part of these upgrades and has been completed. We are excited to welcome in the brewery's team after the new year and I know they can't wait to get going.
> 
> ...



I'm not really all that knowledgable about mountain operations, but please explain to me what the weather has to do with repairs and inspection on a chairlift.  I could understand if you blamed not being able to blow snow on the weather, and up until recently, you have been able to.  Now its bullshit about a transformer.

In the alpine update on December 13th, you said that the warm weather would allow the IT department to get the new website finished, but now that you're past the deadline, you are blaming the fact that it isn't done on a telephone system upgrade.  Which is it?  The weather or the phones?  

The fact that the mountain has not delivered on anything so far this year is troubling.  Is this whole thing a charade?  They had enough money to afford Rangers in October (which got me banned from posting on Facebook), but even then, knowing that you would need $1500-2000 to bring in a crane to raise the counterweight on the Red chair, you couldn't do it.  Is this poor planning, ineptitude, or a malicious plan to deceive the customers and walk away with a bunch of money?

I'm not saying this is all on you, since I know you're not the decision maker, but as the "Director of Marketing" you are the one who is going to need to be answering questions, and based on the people who I've spoken to, you will be getting a lot of them.

How about setting up that Town Hall meeting?  You wanna know what we think, you wanna pretend to be the face of the mountain, put in some face time, let people know who you are.  If you've got nothing to hide, then this should be a no-brainer for you.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 29, 2015)

I don't have an iron in this fire, but I can tell you that if I had a necessary chairlift that was not ready to operate, I would be putting in every resource I had to get the chairlift operational.  Everything else would be a secondary priority.  There is absolutely no way that I would cut it this close because I counted on the weather staying warm.  

But I applaud the marketing person for coming on here and answering questions.  As a Burke skier, I feel your pain.  I also know how important it is to have an open line of communication.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 29, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> But I applaud the marketing person for coming on here and answering questions.  As a Burke skier, I feel your pain.  I also know how important it is to have an open line of communication.



How do you feel about posts being censored on Facebook?


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## VTKilarney (Dec 29, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> How do you feel about posts being censored on Facebook?



It depends on the post.  If it's abusive, I have no problem censoring the post.  But if you can't handle genuine dialog you shouldn't be on Facebook.


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## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

I completely agree with and understand that not having the lifts already certified is not ideal. The best I can offer for right now is the truth about the counterweight and that the Red Chair will be ready to go for Opening Day, January 9th. I'll note that the crane is not a financial problem at all and that the Red Chair is in great shape otherwise.

In November we certainly had hoped we could open December 19th and be in a very different situation than we are today.  The great team I work with here in the office is doing everything they can to be prepared for opening day and I know the Ops Crew is doing the same. 

I'll bring up your Town Hall idea at the next managers meeting.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> I'll bring up your Town Hall idea at the next managers meeting.



If it isn't a financial problem, then what is holding it up?

There's like one person in each "department."  You can drop the Director and managers meeting crap.  If you really think you're managing anything or the director of anything except bullshit, you're lying to yourself.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 29, 2015)

Wow guys let's try to keep the guy around for at least a day....


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Wow guys let's try to keep the guy around for at least a day....



+1 

Seriously


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## cdskier (Dec 29, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> +1
> 
> Seriously



+2! I have no stake in Magic at all here and am a complete outsider that has kept reading this thread out of pure interest. That said, people asked for communication, now someone from magic comes here and starts providing information and people jump all over the poor guy. Give him a chance. I tend to agree that the chair should have been 100% done already, but as long as it is ready for opening day, does it really matter that much? As for the snowmaking, shit happens. A transformer blowing that is GMP's responsibility to fix isn't really something that could have been prevented or controlled. Even if they had fired up the system a few days or weeks earlier, the transformer might have been fine at the time and still only blown now.

As for jumping on the guy about his title...come on. He said he would bring the suggestion about the town hall up at the next manager's meeting. I would think he is referring to a meeting with managers from a variety of departments (not just marketing). Just because he is the Director of Marketing doesn't mean he has unilateral decision making on items like that. Again, give the poor guy a chance before scaring him away.


----------



## mtl1076 (Dec 29, 2015)

If it wasn't financial then why didn't you bring the equipment in to raise the counterweight and get the lift certified earlier.  The whole thing makes no sense.


----------



## rocks860 (Dec 29, 2015)

I feel real bad for this guy


----------



## mtl1076 (Dec 29, 2015)

lesson#1: don't come on to a ski forum with passionate users and continue the lies that have been getting you in trouble on facebook and caused you to think you have to ban people from commenting.  Pretty simple really, he sat on his pulpit and rained down the ban hammer whenever he saw fit with his facebook page.  Is it any surprise that his welcome would be less that glowing on a forum that allows actual, not censored feedback?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> I completely agree with and understand that not having the lifts already certified is not ideal. The best I can offer for right now is the truth about the counterweight and that the Red Chair will be ready to go for Opening Day, January 9th. I'll note that the crane is not a financial problem at all and that the Red Chair is in great shape otherwise.
> 
> In November we certainly had hoped we could open December 19th and be in a very different situation than we are today.  The great team I work with here in the office is doing everything they can to be prepared for opening day and I know the Ops Crew is doing the same.
> 
> I'll bring up your Town Hall idea at the next managers meeting.



I'll note that I heard today that the crane will not be how the counterweight is lifted now given conditions on the ground. Suggest talking to ops more regularly...


----------



## JamaicaMan (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> The Red would have been ready to go had we been able to open sooner with better weather. Of course we have had one of the warmest December in history here in Vermont, which has not helped us get to that point.
> 
> Out on The Shed Deck we are waiting for a visit from The Shed's marketing team to fully outfit both levels of the deck outside Black Line Tavern. The new window bar inside was part of these upgrades and has been completed. We are excited to welcome in the brewery's team after the new year and I know they can't wait to get going.
> 
> ...



The only improving being waited on for the Shed Deck is for Shed to bring in their sign to be put on the outside of the lodge with a light on it. Really guys, there is not much to this thing but glad Magic got some money for a sign to be put on the deck and string of lights. (The Red Chair thing is BS; a website has nothing to do with a telephone system--come on.)


----------



## mtl1076 (Dec 29, 2015)

yeah, explain to us how a telephone system is connected to a website?


----------



## slatham (Dec 29, 2015)

Shane, appreciate you jumping on this forum. You do need to be careful as there are some guys who have some good info flow. And some are a bit delerious about Magic. But the more true and accurate information the better. We all know things don't always go as planned but appreciate the true inside story.

As for the faithful that have chimed in, you might want to consider cutting Shane some slack. It's more info than we've had and it is an open line of communication. I'd rather we don't lose that line of communication. 

And for gods sake, THINK SNOW!


----------



## cdskier (Dec 29, 2015)

mtl1076 said:


> yeah, explain to us how a telephone system is connected to a website?



If they have a one person IT department, that could certainly explain it as that one person had to refocus priorities.


----------



## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

JamaicaMan said:


> The only improving being waited on for the Shed Deck is for Shed to bring in their sign to be put on the outside of the lodge with a light on it. Really guys, there is not much to this thing but glad Magic got some money for a sign to be put on the deck and string of lights. (The Red Chair thing is BS; a website has nothing to do with a telephone system--come on.)



I understand that because of the title you once held at the mountain you have insider information from former coworkers. However, being the person that's put together The Shed's partnership with us this year I can tell you that your "source" is dead wrong on this front about just a single sign being put up. They may want to ask me about what's going on next time before sharing.

Also, the same person responsible for the telephone system is in charge of the new site and has had to divide his time between multiple projects. 

To those that have come out to support us thank you, it is greatly appreciated and goes a long way.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 29, 2015)

from magic's facebook page, 10/2/15:
"The Red chair is in the inspection process and it looks like it will be ready for completion in the middle of October when the power for the lifts is turned back on." 

-- no one noticed until now that there is insufficient carriage and/or counterweight clearance?
-- has an evac demo been demonstated to the lift inspector?

from marketing director:
"Black needs a new bumper guard on the base station and a summit bullwheel alignment in addition to some line work."

-- how does a bullwheel go out of alignment?


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 29, 2015)

Here's the simple deal. I paid for my pass in the summer, I expect the goddamn place to get open. I have spent money to ski elsewhere so far. Loon last week. Ragged Mountain today. From today onward, this is Magic incompetence. I expect a rebate on next years pass. Or at least a rebate on Black Friday rates lower than mid-summer for a pass? 

What is wrong with this place? Layers of incompetence that need to be thrown out by the scruffs of there
necks.

If anyone would like to discuss, I include ALL my contact info below

Joe Bender-Zanoni
973-747-2116
joeb-z@comcast.net


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> I understand that because of the title you once held at the mountain you have insider information from former coworkers. However, being the person that's put together The Shed's partnership with us this year I can tell you that your "source" is dead wrong on this front about just a single sign being put up. They may want to ask me about what's going on next time before sharing.
> 
> Also, the same person responsible for the telephone system is in charge of the new site and has had to divide his time between multiple projects.
> 
> To those that have come out to support us thank you, it is greatly appreciated and goes a long way.



Hope the sign(s) are better than the lights provided.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Dec 29, 2015)

I think all of the questions being raised are valid but why bother asking them if you are going to be a douchebag? Does anyone think they are actually helping the cause or getting closer to the truth? Having 10 people rehash the same shit over and over doesn't help. 

Shane -

I have a question, will Magic be doing anything for White Out pass holders since Christmas vacation is off the table? Someone on Facebook said yes but to stay tuned. Do you have any insight to this? Will there be additional days added?


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 29, 2015)

oompaloompa said:


> from magic's facebook page, 10/2/15:
> "The Red chair is in the inspection process and it looks like it will be ready for completion in the middle of October when the power for the lifts is turned back on."
> 
> -- no one noticed until now that there is insufficient carriage and/or counterweight clearance?
> ...



Isn't it possible that the inspection process found the counterweight issue?


----------



## magicsales (Dec 29, 2015)

Our plan for White Out Pass holders is to make their passes valid for spring weekends in March. We're still finalizing that plan, should be on the website this week.


----------



## jrmagic (Dec 29, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think all of the questions being raised are valid but why bother asking them if you are going to be a douchebag? Does anyone think they are actually helping the cause or getting closer to the truth? Having 10 people rehash the same shit over and over doesn't help.
> 
> Shane -
> 
> I have a question, will Magic be doing anything for White Out pass holders since Christmas vacation is off the table? Someone on Facebook said yes but to stay tuned. Do you have any insight to this? Will there be additional days added?



My opinion doesn't matter for spit but some added days makes a lot more sense than any cash back if that was being considered.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> Our plan for White Out Pass holders is to make their passes valid for spring weekends in March. We're still finalizing that plan, should be on the website this week.



Very nice to hear.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Dec 29, 2015)

magicsales said:


> Our plan for White Out Pass holders is to make their passes valid for spring weekends in March. We're still finalizing that plan, should be on the website this week.



That makes me very happy. Some mountains would probably just tell you that you are SOL



jrmagic said:


> My opinion doesn't matter for spit but some added days makes a lot more sense than any cash back if that was being considered.



Better for me anyway. I prefer added terrain vs holiday vacation. I would never expect monetary compensation.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 29, 2015)

I don't know who the douchebags are. Spell them out please. However, Tom Barker seems to be running this place from somewhere  in the shadows with a false promise here or there. Black lift a year ago? Hello?

I am just not going to "polite" anymore as my money swirls around the drain.

Joe



MadMadWorld said:


> I think all of the questions being raised are valid but why bother asking them if you are going to be a douchebag? Does anyone think they are actually helping the cause or getting closer to the truth? Having 10 people rehash the same shit over and over doesn't help.
> 
> Shane -
> 
> I have a question, will Magic be doing anything for White Out pass holders since Christmas vacation is off the table? Someone on Facebook said yes but to stay tuned. Do you have any insight to this? Will there be additional days added?


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 29, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Isn't it possible that the inspection process found the counterweight issue?



Should have been found by a competent lift maintenance crew, long before they called for an inspection.


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## Keelhauled (Dec 29, 2015)

How can one possibly know enough about Magic to ski there, buy a pass, complain on online forums, and still be surprised that they struggle to open?  I mean I love the mountain, but they're pretty much the most shoestring operation in the state. Lift problems are practically an annual tradition. Surely by now it should be obvious that buying a pass involves somewhat more risk than it does elsewhere.


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## mtl1076 (Dec 29, 2015)

They are complaining because they are being lied to and they know it. 


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2015)

Here's a question for Shane.  What happened with the sale of the mountain.  Who was trying to buy it? Why did the sale fall through? People seemed very excited about a regime change.


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 29, 2015)

Today at Magic, we went skiing. The skiing was fun. 

 


 





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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2015)

Nice!


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## ss20 (Dec 29, 2015)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Today at Magic, we went skiing. The skiing was fun.



Don't overload us with details now. 

Enough snow to skin or did you need to hike?  And all the way to the top, nice!


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 29, 2015)

Keelhauled said:


> How can one possibly know enough about Magic to ski there, buy a pass, complain on online forums, and still be surprised that they struggle to open?  I mean I love the mountain, but they're pretty much the most shoestring operation in the state. Lift problems are practically an annual tradition. Surely by now it should be obvious that buying a pass involves somewhat more risk than it does elsewhere.



First, excuse my naivete.

Then, what have you done to contribute?

I have followed the situation very carefully and I have been lied to. 

There were are at least ten posts, starting on blogspot last winter, about the progress on the black lift and then red lift approval. 

Let alone the prospect of purchase by competent management etc.


Joe


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 30, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Don't overload us with details now.
> 
> Enough snow to skin or did you need to hike?  And all the way to the top, nice!



Conditions were Magical. I went with non Magic people and there was no talk of lift inspections, snowmaking, or ownership. 

I was able to skin up the whole way. My friends boot packed due to the equipment they had. Skinning was the way to go. Downhill was much better then expected. Mostly soft turns on dense snow that skied deeper then the actual depth. Only issue was avoiding the cell tower road. 

Not a scratch on my board after the run. 
Post lap beer and wings at the BLT were amazing.

This heavy snow is nice for building a base. If we had 6-8 inches of fluffy stuff on top of it the whole mountain would be in mid-season form.  


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## MMP (Dec 30, 2015)

still laughing about "managers meeting" ahahahahahahahahah


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## MMP (Dec 30, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> My opinion doesn't matter for spit but some added days makes a lot more sense than any cash back if that was being considered.



Cash back?

Ahahahahah


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## Do Work (Dec 30, 2015)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Conditions were Magical. I went with non Magic people and there was no talk of lift inspections, snowmaking, or ownership.



Wow.  I didn't know that was even possible.  Can you introduce me to them?


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## farlep99 (Dec 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> If it isn't a financial problem, then what is holding it up?
> 
> There's like one person in each "department."  You can drop the Director and managers meeting crap.  If you really think you're managing anything or the director of anything except bullshit, you're lying to yourself.



"Director of Bullshit". I like that PJ. Seems appropriate here too


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## Do Work (Dec 30, 2015)

Wow.  Reading back a few pages I can only say that I'm glad I have been taking a hiatus from the internet and wow I have truly turned a corner.

Never wanted to be part of a group less.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Wow.  Reading back a few pages I can only say that I'm glad I have been taking a hiatus from the internet and wow I have truly turned a corner.
> 
> Never wanted to be part of a group less.



Vibes.  STOKE!!


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## Do Work (Dec 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> Vibes.  STOKE!!





Dude...  Go fuck yourself.  Never seen someone act like a bigger child and still be proud about it.  Lol.


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## PearlJam09 (Dec 30, 2015)

Do Work said:


> Dude...  Go fuck yourself.  Never seen someone act like a bigger child and still be proud about it.  Lol.



You should probably take a look in the mirror more often.


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## Do Work (Dec 30, 2015)

PearlJam09 said:


> You should probably take a look in the mirror more often.





I have.  I love what I see.  Come at me bro.


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## Treepopper (Dec 30, 2015)

Some general facts:
The  counterweight is a known every yr. Mtn. ops has known about it as it is routine.
They tested snowmaking system over a month ago, discovered pump
Problem. Both of these Tom Barker has been aware of but pushed off..probably due to finances. 
They also did not bring in compressors until monday,they can't make snow without them, so there was 
No way they could make snow sunday night without compressors. In addition, it was known saturday am
That the pumps were a problem, as mtn. Ops went home for weekend.
If electric did enter into it.......glad its fixed, or could it be waiting fora ck to clear......
Bottom line there was no way snow could be made sunday night and management knew it.......
All of these were knowns that w a plan and money should have been done by 19th, weather should not have had any influence
To announce opening days and not have a lift inspected and snow making ready is just plain misrepresentation
To the public and the magic faithful.
This is incompetence, this is lack of funds, this is a very sad time for magic skiers, as they deserve better.
They have been treated like dirt by this management team, 
an operating company that has no
Regard for its skiers. Their goal being get the bar open for any revenue so maybe we can get a lift inspected.
You sold and owe passholders and all skiers  a product, which is your mountain, lifts, snowmaking and a working cat are necessary
To open, none of which were ready for either " opening day."
This is no fault of Mtn. Ops as i have seen those guys doing their best, this is " management."
It appears the weather has been a lucky crutch for magics management to use as an excuse not to open,
When all along they could not have anyway, or they would have lifts, cat and snowmaking "ready to go" all along.
Mismanagement, poor communication, bad funding allocations, missed dates, bans, rudeness to customers when questions asked.
A real shame........magic has been quirky for years, but this is worst seen in awhile.......but to be expected when the people running it are not smart enough to listen to their customers.
When the owner puts cocktails before lifts there is a problem.......because no matter how much he drinks the facts will not stay hidden anymore. People have questions and they deserve straight answers, you have already lost many, dont keep treating your skiers like u are, as u will continue to drive them away.


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## Treepopper (Dec 30, 2015)

Correction compressors arrived Monday, so again they could not make snow Sunday like they said.


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## rocks860 (Dec 30, 2015)

That almost read like a Scotty post


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## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2015)

They don't own any compressors at all?


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 30, 2015)

I haven't stopped in to this thread in a while but I have to say the vitriolic posts here make those in the Burke thread pale in comparison. Yikes.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 30, 2015)

Treepopper said:


> Some general facts:
> The  counterweight is a known every yr. Mtn. ops has known about it as it is routine.
> They tested snowmaking system over a month ago, discovered pump
> Problem. Both of these Tom Barker has been aware of but pushed off..probably due to finances.
> ...



If even half of this is true, I fear for Magic.


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## skifasttakechances (Dec 30, 2015)

It is and more.  There is no cash flow and no access to capital.  And robbing Peter to pay Paul doesn't count.  As they say in business "once you run out of cash they take you out of the game".  Not as though TB'S heart is not in the right place but as intelligent as he is his head was not built to run a business and his execution is terrible.  And as much as I was hoping it would succeed ... With all do respect it would be best if TB would rethink the offer that was and probably still is out there to purchase the mountain.  The place is special and has so much potential.  It is a shame to witness this failure.  Yet still hoping for miracles.


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## Sorcerer (Dec 30, 2015)

The success story. So much effort was put into fixing the flag poles, that the rest of the tasks were neglected. I think MMP is somewhat responsible :sad:


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## deadheadskier (Dec 30, 2015)

Just saw they got a s'more station though.  That counts for something!


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## Savemeasammy (Dec 30, 2015)

This thread needs more ski-offs.  


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## VTKilarney (Dec 30, 2015)

What's really scary is that the refuse to give an actual date for the red chair to be inspected.  They will only say that it is going to be inspected "soon."  And yet they insist that they are going to open in nine days.

I feel like I'm watching a train wreck as it happens.

But at least they have smores.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 30, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> This thread needs more ski-offs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Ding ding ding


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## yeggous (Dec 31, 2015)

Sorcerer said:


> The success story. So much effort was put into fixing the flag poles, that the rest of the tasks were neglected. I think MMP is somewhat responsible :sad:



This is my favorite capital improvement of the year for any mountain in New England. Bravo!


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 31, 2015)

The skiing was good again today. Rain softened the ice up a bit. 




Found a VIP seating area for my daughter in the lodge...



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## doublediamond (Jan 1, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Layers of incompetence that need to be thrown out by the scruffs of there
> necks.



I've said this before way way up thread.  It's layers on top of layers of incompetence going back to when the place reopened back in the 90s.  It doesn't take a lot of brain power to run a ski area successfully.  It doesn't take *that* much capital if you want to run it on a tight budget.

Here's the biggest thought that troubles me....

Since Magic doesn't have the most powerful snowmaking system, and they don't shoot to be T2B by Thanksgiving like a certain of their neighbors, why did Magic not jump on EfficiencyVermont's snowgun roundup? 

That was a godsend.  Substantially cheaper snowmaking gifted to ski areas.  Why do you think every other mountain jumped on it so hard?



			
				Magic's financial statement said:
			
		

> Remaining Ratniks, $10,000



I'm guessing they had them at $500 a pop, so 20 Ratnik Snow Giant II's.  They could have gotten 25 10' half-off HKD SV10 Impulses (what Loon & Sunday River have been killing the field with over the last couple of years) on sleds for handing them in for scrap.  The rebate for the regular SV10 (without the air valve) was 25% off.

If they were worried about being able to open at all in warm weather in the worst of possible years *cough* this one *cough*, why did they not jump on the 25% off offer for Baby Ratnik Snow Giant 2, or double, triple, or quad Baby Ratnik Snow Giant 2? (I have not yet seen a ski area with the triple or quad tower sleds, but there are pics on Ratnik's website).  BSG2s use 40% less air than a modern SGII.

Why have they not considered HDK's 5-payment-a-year, 5-year, 25 gun lease to buy (~$107k over 5 years)?  The decrease in air pays for itself in about 2 years.

Why do they rent diesel air vs. getting an electric compressor?  Used ones have been quite cheap on ski area classified sites in the past several years.

Are their Ratnik ground guns even of the new c. 2008 nozzle configuration (simple:  is the hole and ellipse [new] or a circle [old])?  That right there saves 30-60% air dependent on WB.  I'm guessing with so little investment that they have the old nozzles.  I can't imagine that's a big investment -- the nozzle screws off/on.

Old vs. New nozzle flow curves

This is just snowmaking efficiency.  All of these suggestions allow more snow to be made for cheaper.  This is their #1 problem.  They can't make money or get skiers with one way down open on MLK weekend.  That's the pace we're on this year for.  

We could go on and on about other mountain issues.  

For example, Green/Sun Corner will never run.  They've been selling the chairs off one by one.  And even if there was a desire, at this point the lift is too far gone and of an archaic design that endangers riders.  It's been down/half-built for 20 years.  Yes, Betwixed was taken out summer 1995.  Why not rip it down and sell it for scrap?  There, some free snowguns, or funds for Black repairs, or whatever.

For reference, Crotched was closed for just 12 years and one double was gone completely and the 2nd was extensively rehabbed with a new drive terminal.

Why does PR go silent with not even a Facebook post all summer?  Look to Tenney to see what can easily be done there.  

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Many thanks to the marketing guy/gal coming here.  It's great to hear feedback from the ski area.  But these and many other issues make us all pull our hair out.  I hope s/he sticks around and posts more.

It's a great mountain.  All of us want it to succeed.  But it's been a lot of utter incompetence for eons. And it drives us all crazy


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 1, 2016)

Magicsnowboard, do they not have any of their fan guns set up yet? They had a pic on Facebook of them moving them around.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 1, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> There is no cash flow and no access to capital.  And robbing Peter to pay Paul doesn't count.



Then serious questions need to be asked.  Last winter, they had no money to rent compressors until the last possible second.  And they announced that they were flat out of cash in the spring, following one of the best winters in the East in a while.  How could they possibly not break even last winter?!?


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## mbedle (Jan 1, 2016)

How could they possibly not break even last winter??? Simple, large amount of season pass holders, skiing on the cheap threads, liftopia and significantly better skiing located in the vicinity.


----------



## Tin (Jan 1, 2016)

Pitchforks at the torchlight parade?


----------



## prsboogie (Jan 1, 2016)

mbedle said:


> How could they possibly not break even last winter??? Simple, large amount of season pass holders, skiing on the cheap threads, liftopia and significantly better skiing located in the vicinity.



Better in what way?


----------



## mbedle (Jan 1, 2016)

Well, not necessarily better in some respects to terrain, but better in the overall quality and quantity of skiing offered. I put magic in the same class as MRG, they have their selling points to a select few people.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 1, 2016)

With slightly more capital they could appeal to more than a few people. They'll never be Okemo (thank god) but besides the expert terrain there is excellent intermediate terrain, it just need to be covered.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 1, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> Magicsnowboard, do they not have any of their fan guns set up yet? They had a pic on Facebook of them moving them around.



The fan guns are set up on Showoff and around the base. Temps are still to high to do anything- probably Sunday night


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> The fan guns are set up on Showoff and around the base. Temps are still to high to do anything- probably Sunday night



It's in the teens right now. What a jerk off.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> It's in the teens right now. What a jerk off.



Where are you getting your weather information?

It's 29 degrees in Londonderry currently

https://www.google.com/search?q=lon...droid-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8


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## Newpylong (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> It's in the teens right now. What a jerk off.



On what planet? 30 degrees and 70% humidity. Snowmaking is not possible.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

K reporting 18


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2016)

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a Magic thread.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a Magic thread.



Yep & a sad thread it is.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2016)

Tough times there no doubt.

But let's keep the conversation factual.  The weather at K isn't a good place to compare to for Magic.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Tough times there no doubt.
> 
> But let's keep the conversation factual.  The weather at K isn't a good place to compare to for Magic.



Betcha Bromley. Stratton, Okemo & Mt. Snow are blowing snow right now.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2016)

Hope they are.  Not surprised a place like Magic with a minimal budget isn't going to be making snow in these conditions.  They don't intend on opening until the 9th.  It's going to be bitter cold Monday and Tuesday.  So the right play is to wait when you're operating on a shoestring budget.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Hope they are.  Not surprised a place like Magic with a minimal budget isn't going to be making snow in these conditions.  They don't intend on opening until the 9th.  It's going to be bitter cold Monday and Tuesday.  So the right play is to wait when you're operating on a shoestring budget.



Can't make any money if they're not open. Takes a bit more than 4 days to get a t2b route open at Magic I'd think. Especially starting from scratch.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Can't make any money if they're not open. Takes a bit more than 4 days to get a t2b route open at Magic I'd think. Especially starting from scratch.



Place has problems for sure


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## yeggous (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Can't make any money if they're not open. Takes a bit more than 4 days to get a t2b route open at Magic I'd think. Especially starting from scratch.



What is there capacity vs terrain like? This is a good question. What does it take to get them open.

Wildcat can opens 2,112' feet of gnarly terrain in 48 hours. Bretton Woods can open about 1,300' of golf course in 24 hours. I think Sunday River is similar to Bretton Woods in vertical and time.


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## Sorcerer (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Betcha Bromley. Stratton, Okemo & Mt. Snow are blowing snow right now.



Betcha you are wrong....


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## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> Betcha you are wrong....


Well according to their snow reports they are & planning on opening new terrain in the morning.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 1, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> On what planet? 30 degrees and 70% humidity. Snowmaking is not possible.



30°F, 70% RH = 27.1°F WB

Yes snow can be made.

And with elevation, temp usually decreases average at 3.56°F/1000 ft., so the summit could be around 21.8°F WB.


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## doublediamond (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Especially starting from scratch.



FWIW, the photos up thread looked like there may have been at least one pile made up at the summit.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Can't make any money if they're not open. Takes a bit more than 4 days to get a t2b route open at Magic I'd think. Especially starting from scratch.



Can't make money if you try to make snow when temperatures and humidity don't allow it. Stratton and Bromley both had about 2 "real trails" open. Killington didn't have much more if you compensate for size. Unless it's really cold at the top of Killington, they aren't doing much either. 

I don't think you know what you are talking about but if you really want to pontificate continue but it would be n ice if you had some factual content.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I don't think you know what you are talking about but if you really want to pontificate continue but it would be n ice if you had some factual content.


I'm not going to bother linking their conditions reports. You can look at them for yourself.


----------



## mtl1076 (Jan 1, 2016)

It's takes 5 strong days to open trick to show off. Yes the ratnjcks have new nozzles. If they are serious about opening next weekend snowmaking needs to start ASAP. Especially considering its magic and what can go wrong will go wrong. 


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## drjeff (Jan 1, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> On what planet? 30 degrees and 70% humidity. Snowmaking is not possible.



Ok, I know micro climates play a roll, but I'm less than 20 miles SOUTH of Magic now, at a similar elevation and staring out my back window at the lights of somewhere near 100 fan guns running on the main face and Carinthia at Mount Snow, the same fan guns that have been running with 2 to 3 nozzle banks open for over 30 hours now, with some decent sized  whale's that I saw firsthand today

If Magic isn't running their snowmaking system yet, either their micro-climate is FAR different, or there's other, bigger issues going on!!!!

On an aside, I really hope they get open soon, as both my kids are scheduled to have their 1st gate race of the season there in 2 weeks!!!


----------



## cdskier (Jan 1, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm not going to bother linking their conditions reports. You can look at them for yourself.



Although sometimes they are projected reports with the expectations of temperatures getting to a certain point and not necessarily "real time" as far as current snowmaking info. (Not saying whether they are or are not making snow at the moment as I suspect they are at many of those areas at least on some parts of the mountain...just saying reports aren't always accurate).


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 1, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> FWIW, the photos up thread looked like there may have been at least one pile made up at the summit.



There are no snow piles at Magic's summit. I hiked to the top today. Guns are in place but no hoses connected as of 3pm.  Bromley blew all day.


----------



## ss20 (Jan 1, 2016)

Considering Mohawk in CT has been blowing snow since shortly after sunset today, I'd say Magic could certainly blow if they could/wanted.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 1, 2016)

And all of this is meaningless if they don't get a chairlift inspected.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 1, 2016)

Ok, just a fortuitous patch of low-cut grass.  I was curious as that pic didn't seem to exactly line up with what was said here.

Good to know about the Ratniks.  That probably was the easiest upgrade possible if their Ratniks were pre-2008-ish.

Question re: Red ..... why does the counterweight have to be adjusted every year?  Isn't that a sign of something significantly wrong with the lift?  It was my understanding that cables don't stretch out much past their second year of use ... be it the haul rope or the counterweight rope.

If either the haul or counterweight ropes are too long now, why not resplice it and get it over with once and for all?


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 1, 2016)

As someone who would only go back to magic with 2 lifts working this is turning out to be a nightmare scenario. Someone with some loot needs to buy this place asap. Pains me to see things go from upbeat all fall to this disaster occuring right now. 


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## Newpylong (Jan 2, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> 30°F, 70% RH = 27.1°F WB
> 
> Yes snow can be made.
> 
> And with elevation, temp usually decreases average at 3.56°F/1000 ft., so the summit could be around 21.8°F WB.



Maybe if you have all the air in the world and wanted 4 guns blowing water. 27 wet bulb is like throwing dollar bills to the wind with a limited budget.

The summit should be more optimal and what they should be working on. No real excuse for not taking advantage of  a 21 wet bulb like you said.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 2, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> The summit might be more optimal...



I'd be willing to bet that up top the temps/humidity/wetbulb are just fine for snowmaking... they just don't want to, maybe hoping for a Mother Nature bailout.



> I hiked to the top today. Guns are in place but no hoses connected as of 3pm.



Does that look like an operation that is gung-ho ready to go? No, it looks like a fly-by-night operation trying to suck the cream off the top of the operation, doing the least amount of work possible.



> And all of this is meaningless if they don't get a chairlift inspected.



Exactly, Hellooooooo, it's January 2nd!


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 2, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> Maybe if you have all the air in the world and wanted 4 guns blowing water. 27 wet bulb is like throwing dollar bills to the wind with a limited budget.
> 
> The summit should be more optimal and what they should be working on.



Thus I mentioned it should be 21 WB at the summit.  If 3 banks on Super Polecats are running at Mt. Snow for 30 hours straight, that's low 20's WB, confirming my estimate.

This isn't bad snowmaking weather.  In past years, it's been c. 3200 cfm rented IIRC.  A Ratnik with new nozzles should be ±12 CFM:GPM for low 20s.  266 gpm water up top.  Add in that Trick has some low E guns, they can make more if those are on vs. only Ratniks.  And Magic, like many air-water ski areas, defrays the cost of warmer snowmaking weather with their fleet of 9 or so Areco fan guns down low.  Adding even more output.  Off the top of my head, they probably could easily be putting 470 gpm on the hill before replacing Ratniks with any low E guns.  Not too shabby that they can only pump at around 1200 gpm and water needs to return to the pump house to keep it from freezing in the pipes.

When you're not even open yet, you need to make snow at (nearly) all opportunities.

All in all, their pants are down. Again.


----------



## MMP (Jan 2, 2016)

i think it's less than coincidental that the Swiss flag was the first raised. Can anyone tell me why?


----------



## Tin (Jan 2, 2016)

MMP said:


> i think it's less than coincidental that the Swiss flag was the first raised. Can anyone tell me why?




It's a curse.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 2, 2016)

MMP said:


> i think it's less than coincidental that the Swiss flag was the first raised. Can anyone tell me why?



I don't have time for puzzles on a ski forum. Why don't you just make your point.


----------



## MMP (Jan 2, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I don't have time for puzzles on a ski forum. Why don't you just make your point.



hahahaha. irony is awesome.


----------



## MMP (Jan 2, 2016)

do you need that explained too? ^


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 2, 2016)

did they make snow last night?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 2, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> did they make snow last night?



Is that a rhetorical question?


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 2, 2016)

No lifts, no snowmaking, operating (should I say not operating) with no insurance ... but they've got smores!  This is great.

Hoping for better for the Magic faithful in 2016!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 2, 2016)

Hiked Magic again today. 
No signs of snowmaking.
No signs of lift work.
Felt a lot like a NELSAP.





It was really cold. Windy up top but cold with low humidity. 

The new wings at the bar are really good. 



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## Treepopper (Jan 2, 2016)

Still no snowmaking up here........even though snowing off and on, and every other mtn.is making it....
so something to lighten up the mood......

'Twas the week before christmas, when all through the lodge,
Facebook was used as a forum to dodge,

Any real questions asked by a fan,
Led to the person having a ban,
" the shed deck is opening and the roof has a patch",
Unsuspecting skiers didn't know there was a catch

Yes, the weather was warm, 
so not opening was no harm......

Until the temps dropped and a storm did brew
Which raised many questions from the faithful ski crew

" where are the guns And can the lift spin"
" are u ready to open" became the loud din....

The mushroom management came glaring through
With prior Facebook messages ringing untrue

The chair isn't ready, and we can't make snow
It became apparent, they were never ready to go.....

The groomer in pieces  in disrepair
"What if it dumped, there is no red chair!"

There will be no answers or real questions allowed
Creating frustration and no more trust from the crowd...

The snow is trying for the skiers amazing and true,
The next question is what the mountain will do

The weather an excuse, the mountain never there,
Not even a lifty with an inspected 
chair

Was there ever a plan or all just a sham
Its time to find out said the ski clan

" we are the customers who deserve some answers,
Not anymore bullshit, bans or banter

So go to the source
As a skier force

Won't have to go far,
He's always in the bar

 There sits the GM, tipping his libations
While all those around him lose all their patience

He'll tell u about fixing the roof, web and bar
Ask about the mountain, And u may not get far

There's gypsies in the castle
Thats caused all this hassle
As they don't seem to know,
which way to go---

The team at the top is a clueless crew,
But lets not lose sight of what we know true

Magic is made special by the community there,
Of friends, family and strangers who love their red chair

Because of this, the mountain is held dear
With hope snow will begin in the new year

So question And ask for true answers to know
Happy new years to all, and may magic make snow!'


----------



## mtl1076 (Jan 2, 2016)

that is really quite clever. Nice job.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 2, 2016)

Treepopper said:


> Still no snowmaking up here........even though snowing off and on, and every other mtn.is making it....
> so something to lighten up the mood......
> .
> .
> ...


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 2, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Hiked Magic again today.
> No signs of snowmaking.
> No signs of lift work.
> Felt a lot like a NELSAP.
> ...



Still nothing? Not even the hoses hooked up? Only 7 days until they say they are gonna open... yeah right.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Jan 2, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Still nothing? Not even the hoses hooked up? Only 7 days until they say they are gonna open... yeah right.



Hoses are hooked up around the base and to the top of showoff. Been that way for the last few days. Nothing above showoff is hooked up. 

I think MLK weekend might be a more realistic opening. 


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## steamboat1 (Jan 2, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> I think MLK weekend might be a more realistic opening.



Sad.


----------



## ScottySkis (Jan 2, 2016)

No one getting mad that Platty and mad river glen aren't open.

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## PearlJam09 (Jan 2, 2016)

ScottySkis said:


> No one getting mad that Platty and mad river glen aren't open.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk



If Platty and MRG got 24" of snow tonight they would be able to spin the lifts tomorrow.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 2, 2016)

I'm not sure why that point escapes everyone. It's Jan 2 and they still are unable to make snow and spin a lift. If we get dumped on its hiking only. Lastly I'm starting to understand why PJ and others were so mad about the big rangers purchase early on. Somehow they had funds for two of those yet the funds are lacking for normal mountain operations. Maybe our passes can be converted to magic bucks good at the bar, the restaurant and gift shop.


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## slatham (Jan 2, 2016)

Maybe we need the pending disaster to get them to sell. Or can Tom pull a rabbit out of his Magic hat? There are no more easy excuses. By this time next weekend we shall know. Think Snow. But have the skins ready......


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## cdskier (Jan 2, 2016)

ScottySkis said:


> No one getting mad that Platty and mad river glen aren't open.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk



MRG is very dependent on natural snow to open (and has already been making snow with their 4 snowguns!). Platty has been making snow and even has their learning center and snowtubing open.


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## slatham (Jan 2, 2016)

and there is no doubt that if it snowed 2' tonight that both Platty and MRG would have ALL lifts, trails and facilities up and running. No doubt.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 2, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> If Platty and MRG got 24" of snow tonight they would be able to spin the lifts tomorrow.



Yes, their CERTIFIED FOR OPERATION lifts.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 2, 2016)

slatham said:


> Maybe we need the pending disaster to get them to sell. Or can Tom pull a rabbit out of his Magic hat? There are no more easy excuses. By this time next weekend we shall know. Think Snow. But have the skins ready......



The arrogance and ineptitude of TB prevents that latter and leaves the former as the best long term hope for Magic.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 2, 2016)

magicsales said:


> Hey everyone, this is Shane, Director of Marketing for Magic. I wanted to get in here and clear the air as I do religiously read this thread and those on other sites to see what the general skiing public is thinking. It's a great way to see both the good and bad. Unfortunately, like many other Vermont mountains, Magic has had a tough start to the season. On Sunday night a transformer blew out and that cost us our first good snowmaking window of the season. It was not our pump that went. Green Mountain Power has since come out and made the necessary repairs to resolve the problem. Our snowmakers plan to get out later this week and into the weekend and get the guns going. The Red Chair is just about ready to go and will be certified very, very soon, we need to raise the counterweight and that requires a crane to come in, which has been scheduled. Black will be ready a couple weeks after the final touches are completed. The delay on Black is a result of having all hands on deck to complete the Red Chair in time for opening day. Speaking of opening day, based on my last conversation with our top snowmakers we hope to open January 9th. I apologize for all the confusion and frustration that surrounds the mountain and we are working to make things much smoother for our customers.



Probably been said, but a big WELCOME Shane!  Please stay involved because more information is better!


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## cdskier (Jan 2, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> Probably been said, but a big WELCOME Shane!  Please stay involved because more information is better!



I haven't seen any posts from Shane in a few days now after the initial burst. Hopefully he wasn't scared away already!


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## gmcunni (Jan 2, 2016)

cdskier said:


> I haven't seen any posts from Shane in a few days now after the initial burst. Hopefully he wasn't scared away already!



why would he stick around?


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## thetrailboss (Jan 2, 2016)

cdskier said:


> I haven't seen any posts from Shane in a few days now after the initial burst. Hopefully he wasn't scared away already!



Yeah, just read some more posts. Holy shit. This sounds worse than Saddleback or Burke. My app sent me to his post as I had not been on for a while. I doubt he'll be back. This really sucks. Sorry for the Magic folks.


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## The Sneak (Jan 2, 2016)

meanwhile fifty miles to the south Berkshire East has been open since Wednesday...


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## danimals (Jan 2, 2016)

Poconos have been hammering their trails past few days. I can't imagine it's warmer in Vermont than Pennsylvania.

Currently at blue mountain, an hour from philly.







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## skifasttakechances (Jan 2, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> why would he stick around?



If I were him, I'd be looking for a new job.


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## doublediamond (Jan 2, 2016)

If/when Red needs a new haul rope, Magic will go NELSAP.  That's s hundred thousand dollar job.  And Red is 5500 ft.


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## MG Skier (Jan 2, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> pretty wordy, huh?  8)
> 
> one more thing to watch.  rope "stretch" will result in the carriage moving back and the counterweight clearance to the ground decreasing.  clearance to any obstruction for the ctw and carriage are specified by the feds and the state.  if the ctw is being raised repeatedly, i'd take a look at the carriage, it may be well back too.  the only "fix" for that is a rope splice.



Wow, interesting info to say the least. I would like to ski there at some point this season, now I am questioning that lift.... Hope it passes safely for all involved! A new haul rope would be a tremendous blow.


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## mtl1076 (Jan 2, 2016)

..


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## gmcunni (Jan 2, 2016)

wondering .  . . where did Magic pass holders ski for christmas week?  nearby bromley?

any mountains cutting Magic pass holders a break on $$ ?


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## Magic (Jan 2, 2016)

If the mountain does not open as planned next week and we are pushed off yet another week, what legal right do I have to demand my season pass money back? After all, it is not "weather dependent" at this point that the mountain has not opened as promised...


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## UYSDYP (Jan 2, 2016)

Jackson hole. They are offering 50% off with any us pass in January.


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## gmcunni (Jan 2, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Jackson hole. They are offering 50% off with any us pass in January.



Nice!  never been to JH.. hard/expensive to get to?


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## UYSDYP (Jan 2, 2016)

Actually they make it pretty painless. They have great packages and petty reasonable if you stay in town. Sometimes offer airfare vouchers.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 3, 2016)

After seeing that weather forecast posted just a bit up, if they don't fire up snowmaking tonight, I'd be demanding my pass money back.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 3, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> After seeing that weather forecast posted just a bit up, if they don't fire up snowmaking tonight, I'd be demanding my pass money back.



Agreed.  Tonight will be the key. They can't have any excuses at this point.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 3, 2016)

Jay peak also offers a discount for passholder of other mountains. $14 off


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## Wardrobe (Jan 3, 2016)

Has anyone actually had their Magic pass printed?  I have had no reason to go, so I don't know if there is anyone in the office to print it.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 3, 2016)

Their Facebook page is getting ugly, although they have deleted a ton of comments.


----------



## Tin (Jan 3, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Their Facebook page is getting ugly, although they have deleted a ton of comments.




It's going to get worse when they don't blow any snow in the next few days.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 3, 2016)

Yes, I stopped by on Friday. Spoke with Capucine who is the "inside manager". I was surprised at how much rain they had.

I skiied once at Loon, twice at Ragged Mountain and on Friday I went to Bromley over the Holiday. The conditions were much better in NH. Bromley was quite icy and was giving the intermediates and beginners fits as there was no easy skiing especially near the bottom which got totally clogged. 

I am going to quite grumbling on this forum and speak directly to the management. If necessary I will just vote with my wallet next year. It seems like a season pass is not offering good value, with year over year lost days. I can always pick up cheap tickets for when Magic is actually operating or in shape.



Wardrobe said:


> Has anyone actually had their Magic pass printed?  I have had no reason to go, so I don't know if there is anyone in the office to print it.


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## prsboogie (Jan 3, 2016)

Wardrobe said:


> Has anyone actually had their Magic pass printed?  I have had no reason to go, so I don't know if there is anyone in the office to print it.



Not a season pass holder but my family 4 pack came in on Tuesday


----------



## slatham (Jan 3, 2016)

As Neil would say, "Tonight's the night".


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 3, 2016)

Latest scuddlebutt I read is they have a blown breaker for the water pump. Costs $1500 for a new one. The person who's supposed to fix it hasn't been authorized to spend the money. Don't know how true this is.

Tonight will tell since temperatures are supposed to drop into the single digits or lower & remain there for at least 24hrs. Pretty much now or never if you ask me. Haven't heard anything about the chair being repaired so it could pass inspection. The ship seems to be sinking fast.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 3, 2016)

They aren't making snow yet, but they're deleting Facebook comments left and right.

The comments aren't even that bad. It's just people asking for some honest information.


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 3, 2016)

i remember YEARS ago that mr woods told me a pump seized in the pumphouse 'cause sand washed into the impellor, locking up the pump.  that was expensive, and of course, at the wrong time of year also.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 3, 2016)

Word from the mountain is that they are making snow.  


.


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## magicsales (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm happy to say I was just standing next to a fan gun pumping out the good stuff. I'll have pictures at first light.


----------



## prsboogie (Jan 3, 2016)

We will take a crappy cell flash vision if you wouldn't mind, thanks for the heads up too


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 3, 2016)

Any chance you have info on the lift status that you could share.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 3, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> We will take a crappy cell flash vision if you wouldn't mind, thanks for the heads up too



DoWork put this one up on TGR over an hour ago.


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 3, 2016)

Wonder how many guns


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## prsboogie (Jan 3, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> DoWork put this one up on TGR over an hour ago.



PJ just saw that after I posted.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 3, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> DoWork put this one up on TGR over an hour ago.



Is that an actual gun running or a few people hanging out having a safety meeting?


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 3, 2016)

From magic fb


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 4, 2016)

magicsales said:


> I'm happy to say I was just standing next to a fan gun pumping out the good stuff. I'll have pictures at first light.



Magic is making snow for the first time this season.  You've dealt with criticism from everyone for not getting snowmaking and lifts up and running sooner.  You're standing next to a running snowgun, and you think to yourself, "I could silence all of these doubters with one photo.  Nah, f*** it.  I'll do it tomorrow.  I wonder who else can I ban on Facebook?"

Great decision.


----------



## magicsales (Jan 4, 2016)

Or maybe, just maybe PJ I said to myself it's pitch black I'll wait ten hours and get pictures in the sunlight, which is what I'm doing right now. Or maybe you're right, who knows.


----------



## Tin (Jan 4, 2016)

magicsales said:


> Or maybe, just maybe PJ I said to myself it's pitch black I'll wait ten hours and get pictures in the sunlight, which is what I'm doing right now. Or maybe you're right, who knows.




Maybe get outside and do your job instead of arguing online?


----------



## magicsales (Jan 4, 2016)

Tin said:


> Maybe get outside and do your job instead of arguing online?



Tin, thanks for the concern.


----------



## Tin (Jan 4, 2016)

magicsales said:


> Hahahahahaha



Arguing =/= Marketing heir Director. Now go please the masses and take a picture so you look like less of a little kid on a power trip with your smart ass replies and Facebook bannings.


----------



## Tin (Jan 4, 2016)

magicsales said:


> Tin, thanks for the concern.



There you go, that is more professional. Remember, you represent a place and get paid to deal with assholes like me who spend money at your business. Basic Marketing 101.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 4, 2016)

You guys want more transparency but then pillory the marketing director?  There's a better way to express your frustration.


----------



## Tin (Jan 4, 2016)

magicsales said:


> I'm happy to say I was just standing next to a fan gun pumping out the good stuff. I'll have pictures at first light.





VTKilarney said:


> You guys want more transparency but then pillory the marketing director?  There's a better way to express your frustration.



Once again, no delivery. 

From the dude who was quite displeased with all the QBurke stuff a couple seasons ago did you forget what it is like to purchase passes/tix and be unable to use them and then be lied to/kept in the dark?


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 4, 2016)

Tin said:


> Once again, no delivery.
> 
> From the dude who was quite displeased with all the QBurke stuff a couple seasons ago did you forget what it is like to purchase passes/tix and be unable to use them and then be lied to/kept in the dark?



I completely understand your frustration.


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 4, 2016)

i wonder what the comments will be like in April...

- man, we got a late start but what an awesome season yet again at Magic. Can't wait for next year, when can i buy my 16/17 season pass?

- fuck this, i'm out.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 4, 2016)

magicsales said:


> Or maybe, just maybe PJ I said to myself it's pitch black I'll wait ten hours and get pictures in the sunlight, which is what I'm doing right now. Or maybe you're right, who knows.



Maybe you haven't heard of this really neat invention called a flash.  With a good flash and a nice camera you can freeze motion up to 1/1000th of a second even at night.  I guess that's the kind of info that only pro photographers have.

Sun has been up in Londonderry for at least 40 minutes.  You waiting on the local 1 hour photo mart to deliver photos still?


----------



## Treepopper (Jan 4, 2016)

You can talk to " management" all you want, but remember those there have chosen to
" drink the coolaid" that Tom Barker has concocted. None of them have the knowlege/ experience or gumption 
To question TB's judgement, which by most who have interacted with him say is driven by ignorance and ego, usually a bad combination
and a failing mix.
They have all been apart of deceiving the public and magic faithful with "opening dates" that we now find out
They never were ready for with no lifts inspected and no snowmaking capabilities ready until yesterday.......and that only
Happened because someone stepped in and made it happen, as TB went " deer in the headlights" when pump failed again and was told $1500 to fix. Thanks to someone who makes things happen and didnt want MTN ops be stuck on hold
Again, he worked w another mtn./ and gotnit done.
Hopefully the lift will be inspected this week, bottom line is they can't hold off on writing a check
For it any longer. 
Yes, there was rain, same stuff bromley/ okemo and stratton had.......the difference is
These mountains had their lifts inspected and snowmaking systems were ready to go as soon as the opportunity allowed.
It would be good if the management at Magic learned their lesson about transparency as the truth came out
On all of this last week. Perhaps going foreward their mktg. Person will quit banning those that ask normal ski area questions.....
This just is more evidence of lack of experience all the way around, from mktg. To above, because a true GM/ leader would fire someone
Who is doing this. Instead he keeps a $15-17/ Hr. Kid w no ski area ormktg. Experience that obviously does not know how to handle people.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 4, 2016)

Looks light enough out there to take photos.  Here's one from this morning of  fan guns running on Showoff.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 4, 2016)

Nice!  A move in the right direction


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 4, 2016)

So word is the cat is fixed and almost ready to go. How's the counterweight and lift inspection timeline? How much truth to the fact you have no liability insurance? These are still valid questions that should be answered and are not resolved with a picture of snow being made. Moving in the right direction, best of luck.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 4, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Maybe you haven't heard of this really neat invention called a flash.  With a good flash and a nice camera you can freeze motion up to 1/1000th of a second even at night.  I guess that's the kind of info that only pro photographers have.
> 
> Sun has been up in Londonderry for at least 40 minutes.  You waiting on the local 1 hour photo mart to deliver photos still?






Bahahahahaha the scorned psycho ex-gf level rage has got me ROLLING in the office this morning.  Can you show me on this doll where Magic touched you??


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 4, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Bahahahahaha the scorned psycho ex-gf level rage has got me ROLLING in the office this morning.  Can you show me on this doll where Magic touched you??



Glad I could brighten your day.  I'm just here for the LOLz. Looking forward to ripping some turns with you once the mountain opens.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 4, 2016)

If Magic has liability insurance in place, I am sure that their marketing director will say so in this forum very quickly.  If not, why are they participating here in the first place?

And if they are going to open on January 9th, I am sure that they have a date set for the lift inspection.  And if that's the case, any marketing director worth their salt would verify that there is indeed a date certain.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 4, 2016)

Are there any power outlets around the corner on Wand or do they just have 6 guns going for the 2500 ft of Showoff and the base?


----------



## Do Work (Jan 4, 2016)

Treepopper said:


> You can talk to " management" all you want, but remember those there have chosen to
> " drink the coolaid" that Tom Barker has concocted. None of them have the knowlege/ experience or gumption
> To question TB's judgement, which by most who have interacted with him say is driven by ignorance and ego, usually a bad combination
> and a failing mix.
> ...





Bahahaha yes everyone at Magic is a terrible person.  Talk about drinking the kool-aid!  :beer:


----------



## Treepopper (Jan 4, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Bahahaha yes everyone at Magic is a terrible person.  Talk about drinking the kool-aid!  :beer:



Did not say " everyone at magic was a terrible person". 

Am saying that their current management group is less then stellar.....
Do u believe it was right for management to deceive people about being ready for
Their announced opening days? Do you believe it is right for a marketing mgr. In a customer service based business to ban
People who asked what should have been simple questions? That is not what Magic is about.
Guess when your lying to the public a good tact is.....best defence is offence, so why not be rude and offensive to potential paying customers....personally think a little humility would have gone alot further. Funny thing is.....many of the employees there currently
Think the new mktg. Guy is a cocky jerk who is lousy w people........heard it directly from Many of them this weekend while there......
Very sorry they lost their new patrol guy, but can u blame him? He was smart enough to recognize the smoke and mirrors and get out......
Do they have any paid patrol at this point? How about volunteers......very risky to be patrol at this point for this operation as who wants the liability as its evident that this group would leave you to hang.
The snowmaking start is good news and hope they can make Saturday opening, outside seems to be doing good work in spite of the management......just sayin  hopefully we can ski  saturday.......


----------



## Wardrobe (Jan 4, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> If Magic has liability insurance in place, I am sure that their marketing director will say so in this forum very quickly.  If not, why are they participating here in the first place?
> 
> And if they are going to open on January 9th, I am sure that they have a date set for the lift inspection.  And if that's the case, any marketing director worth their salt would verify that there is indeed a date certain.



No point in spending money on liability insurance if your company is judgment proof.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 4, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Glad I could brighten your day.  I'm just here for the LOLz. Looking forward to ripping some turns with you once the mountain opens.





#lolfocker


----------



## slatham (Jan 4, 2016)

Well, I am glad to see shots of guns pumping out snow! Maybe all is not lost.....

Any evidence the air/water guns are going up on Carpet or Trick?


----------



## Treepopper (Jan 4, 2016)

Wardrobe said:


> No point in spending money on liability insurance if your company is judgment proof.[/QUOTE
> 
> Corporate veils are pierce-able.....this is same company that let their
> Registration lapse according to published articles last spring.


----------



## Wardrobe (Jan 4, 2016)

Registration was renewed in Sept.  Very doubtful TB is worrying about veils being pierced.

https://www.vtsosonline.com/online/BusinessInquire/BusinessInformation?businessID=293022


----------



## Do Work (Jan 4, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> are there any power outlets around the corner on wand or do they just have 6 guns going for the 2500 ft of showoff and the base?





t2b.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 4, 2016)

Do Work said:


> t2b.



My Q was just 6 fans for all of Showoff?


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 4, 2016)

Wardrobe said:


> No point in spending money on liability insurance if your company is judgment proof.



Bwaaahahaha.  You must live on Mars.  Or never run a business.  If you do good luck taking that to court.  Dumbest thing I've read in awhile.


----------



## wtcobb (Jan 4, 2016)

Sarcasm?


----------



## skithetrees (Jan 4, 2016)

Treepopper said:


> Did not say " everyone at magic was a terrible person".
> 
> Am saying that their current management group is less then stellar.....
> Do u believe it was right for management to deceive people about being ready for
> ...



edited. You are so 2000-late (sorry, had to). They haven't had liability insurance from what I understand since reopening circa 2003.


----------



## Treepopper (Jan 4, 2016)

Good news, saw the fuel truck come this am,
They needed it before they could fire up guns on the top, which have started.
Luckily fuel cheap this yr! Hopefully by time we get back coverage!


----------



## Wardrobe (Jan 4, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> Bwaaahahaha.  You must live on Mars.  Or never run a business.  If you do good luck taking that to court.  Dumbest thing I've read in awhile.



You must have a thriving law practice.:roll:


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 4, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> Ski patrol liability is covered by the national association. You are so 2000-late (sorry, had to). They haven't had liability insurance from what I understand since reopening circa 2003.



Wrong.  I patrol at another mountain in VT and have for 15 years.  The NSP only has general liability for its educator's when they are instructing a class of other NSP members.  Whether you are paid or a volunteer you are working as an agent of the area that you patrol at.  Simple as that.  And the good Samaritan Act may or may not cover you.  But I'm not willing to roll the dice and  I would never patrol at mountain without a general liability policy.  If you're a young kid with no family and no assets go for it but I wouldn't.  Don't believe me google the NSP policy and procedures Chapter 8.  Happy reading.
Good to read that Magic is making snow.  Love that hill on powder days.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 4, 2016)

Do Work said:


> t2b.





doublediamond said:


> My Q was just 6 fans for all of Showoff?



Could be interesting to see what happens as there's a Southern VT Council U12 Dual GS race scheduled at Magic a week from this coming Sunday that will take up all of Showoff......

Gotta get some acres open.  Gotta hope for continued cold and some snow!!


----------



## Treepopper (Jan 4, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> Ski patrol liability is covered by the national association. You are so 2000-late (sorry, had to). They haven't had liability insurance from what I understand since reopening circa 2003.



No problem, but not sure u r correct. Nsp manual says their insurance covers when training or at nsp educational things, or as a result of of training, etc. also says patrollers
Under direction of mtn management and patroller acting on behalf of management.
If i recall there is then an endorsement to their policy that says it does not cover any patroller acting on behalf of management.......
maybe the ex head of patrol knows best......


----------



## skithetrees (Jan 4, 2016)

I will edit my post then. I could be wrong, just relaying what one patroller told me. Perhaps they should investigate.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 4, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> My Q was just 6 fans for all of Showoff?





Honestly- this is the type of question that drives me insane.  How many fan guns do YOU think there should be?  Like...  For real, who cares?  They're blowing snow top to bottom.  Let it gooooooooo.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Jan 4, 2016)

Just saw a photo on Instagram of a non fan gun going. That is great news. That means they have an air compressor, with fuel, running. 

Looks like they have their system going full steam. 


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----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 4, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Just saw a photo on Instagram of a non fan gun going. That is great news. That means they have an air compressor, with fuel, running.
> 
> Looks like they have their system going full steam.
> 
> ...



The whole shebang?  Anti-jinx....


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Jan 4, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> The whole shebang?  Anti-jinx....



Fuck yeah



Must be because I have to stay in New York next weekend 


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----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 4, 2016)

upgraded just now to a "Magic Blizzard"  whoa...


----------



## slatham (Jan 4, 2016)

Just like the moon landing, its all fake!

Just kidding....

Regarding fan guns: they do not have power for the fan guns up on Trick so they need the air/water system to get open TTB. But of course they can also use the air/water guns on Showoff to augment the fans. 

In my observation (so this is in no way fact) they only have power for the fan guns on Show Off, Hocus Pocus, Beginner area and Tubing area. They may have power on some of Wand, Lower Carpet and Lower Wizard but I haven't noticed it. Anyone want to chime in?

Its great to see them blowing snow. Hopefully any lift issues are also behind them and they open as planned on Saturday. Throw in a good storm and we'll be on here watching Rusty Groomer video of Do Work!!!!


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 4, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Honestly- this is the type of question that drives me insane.  How many fan guns do YOU think there should be?  Like...  For real, who cares?  They're blowing snow top to bottom.  Let it gooooooooo.



I thought they had more guns than were shown in their FB pictures.  Just checked their financial report from '11 ... JS said they had 7.  So sue me.  But a 400-ft spacing is ridiculous even for a fan gun.  And people on here wonder why it takes them 5 days of non-stop snowmaking to open.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 4, 2016)

slatham said:


> Just like the moon landing, its all fake!
> 
> Just kidding....
> 
> ...



That's what I thought from my recollection.


----------



## MMP (Jan 4, 2016)

well they can make piles and groom it so the spacing isn't as important as the fact that they are at full or close to full capacity on the terrain they are attempting to open. I feel better just seeing this. It's snow.  

are the flags still looking good?

why was Switzerland first? anyone? I know VTKill doesn't have time for riddles on a ski forum, he's too busy posting 3500 times in the last couple/three years.


----------



## Wardrobe (Jan 4, 2016)

^^ You're not a Magic skier if you don't know the answer.  The initials are the same as a famous VT beer.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 4, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> I thought they had more guns than were shown in their FB pictures.  Just checked their financial report from '11 ... JS said they had 7.  So sue me.  But a 400-ft spacing is ridiculous even for a fan gun.  And people on here wonder why it takes them 5 days of non-stop snowmaking to open.




You should write them a letter.  I'm sure there's no particular reason there aren't more going hahahahahaha


----------



## MMP (Jan 4, 2016)

Wardrobe said:


> ^^ You're not a Magic skier if you don't know the answer.  The initials are the same as a famous VT beer.




wrong


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 4, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> I thought they had more guns than were shown in their FB pictures.  Just checked their financial report from '11 ... JS said they had 7.  So sue me.  But a 400-ft spacing is ridiculous even for a fan gun.  And people on here wonder why it takes them 5 days of non-stop snowmaking to open.



Lack of water, air, equipment, or any combination would make it take 5 days, not fan gun spacing. If they bunched them up they would still have to move them and make the same amount of snow.

When you have limited capacity one could make the argument it's better to leave them as is and lay down more. If the prevailing winds change directions, even better, you rotate them.

At least that's my experience.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 4, 2016)

Magic said:


> Interesting that Kerry's response on FB thanking Mountain Ops last night for their hard work disappeared. Are these people that insecure??



you could tell them there's a huge bag of money waiting for them over by the Red Chair & they'd delete it.   Yes.


----------



## Wardrobe (Jan 4, 2016)

MMP said:


> wrong



My hint was too tricky for you.  I don't mean the top rated beer.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 4, 2016)

Wardrobe said:


> My hint was too tricky for you.  I don't mean the top rated beer.



He knows the answer is Harriet Tubman mang.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 4, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> you could tell them there's a huge bag of money waiting for them over by the Red Chair & they'd delete it.   Yes.



:lol::lol:


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 4, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> you could tell them there's a huge bag of money waiting for them over by the Red Chair & they'd delete it.   Yes.



they'd also launder that bag of money


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 4, 2016)

"What bag of money?"  :lol:


----------



## wtcobb (Jan 4, 2016)

MMP said:


> why was Switzerland first? anyone?



Must be a sign of neutrality. Or signaling a safe place to stash bags of money.


----------



## MMP (Jan 4, 2016)

Wardrobe said:


> My hint was too tricky for you.  I don't mean the top rated beer.




You really outfoxed me! 

but seriously, no


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 4, 2016)

mmp said:


> you really outfoxed me!
> 
> But seriously, no




fox off!!


----------



## Magic (Jan 4, 2016)

I think someone taking the huge bag of money happened at Magic already:angry:


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 4, 2016)

Magic said:


> I think someone taking the huge bag of money happened at Magic already:angry:



Not sure there's any money to take. What's clear is that the landowner is doing CYA.


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----------



## dlague (Jan 4, 2016)

Have to say this is a brutal thread beating up on low budget Magic.  I think some of you should give them a break.  It has been a very hard start for all ski areas.  For Magic to have strayed soon would have been a waste of money.  Granted a few days here or the have been lost but it is what it is and the first two foot dump on cover many of you will be skiing it.


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----------



## Not Sure (Jan 4, 2016)

dlague said:


> Have to say this is a brutal thread beating up on low budget Magic.  I think some of you should give them a break.  It has been a very hard start for all ski areas.  For Magic to have strayed soon would have been a waste of money.  Granted a few days here or the have been lost but it is what it is and the first two foot dump on cover many of you will be skiing it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Was thinking the same


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 4, 2016)




----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 4, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> Wrong.  I patrol at another mountain in VT and have for 15 years.  The NSP only has general liability for its educator's when they are instructing a class of other NSP members.  Whether you are paid or a volunteer you are working as an agent of the area that you patrol at.  Simple as that.  And the good Samaritan Act may or may not cover you.  But I'm not willing to roll the dice and  I would never patrol at mountain without a general liability policy.  If you're a young kid with no family and no assets go for it but I wouldn't.  Don't believe me google the NSP policy and procedures Chapter 8.  Happy reading.
> Good to read that Magic is making snow.  Love that hill on powder days.



And you sir broke 2 of the rules in the responsibility code with your screen name. Your opinion as a ski patroller means nothing!


----------



## roark (Jan 5, 2016)

I haven't kept up with this thread. Reading has been just brutal, especially knowing many of the posters and their connections to the mountain. I haven't been following FB either. Clearly there are some serious infrastructure issues as we've all know about for years, but they don't compare to the management issues.  

What really bums me out is this sort of thing just reinforces the 'only go there on a powder day' narrative and the mt. won't survive with that rep. These people need to sell before they lose it all anyway - the incompetence is just baffling.

Regardless, I hope to get up there mid-late Feb (the next time work sends me back east) and enjoy some shenanigans!


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 5, 2016)

Yawgoo Valley opened before Magic.  How sad.


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 5, 2016)

MadMadWorld said:


> And you sir broke 2 of the rules in the responsibility code with your screen name. Your opinion as a ski patroller means nothing!



Opinion?  Fact.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 5, 2016)

dlague said:


> Have to say this is a brutal thread beating up on low budget Magic.  I think some of you should give them a break.  It has been a very hard start for all ski areas.  For Magic to have strayed soon would have been a waste of money.  Granted a few days here or the have been lost but it is what it is and the first two foot dump on cover many of you will be skiing it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



So should we have said nothing and let the tragedy just unfold? Should we have let tom just not blow snow because the pump was not running. Many of us have bought passes and 3/packs. Should we just wait for natural snow and skin up. When would you have spoken out about this? In the spring? It sucks all around but they have a commitment to at least try  at some point. It's the first week of January and we still don't have a lift ready/ inspected.


----------



## MMP (Jan 5, 2016)

roark said:


> I haven't kept up with this thread. Reading has been just brutal, especially knowing many of the posters and their connections to the mountain. I haven't been following FB either. Clearly there are some serious infrastructure issues as we've all know about for years, but they don't compare to the management issues.
> 
> What really bums me out is this sort of thing just reinforces the 'only go there on a powder day' narrative and the mt. won't survive with that rep. These people need to sell before they lose it all anyway - the incompetence is just baffling.
> 
> Regardless, I hope to get up there mid-late Feb (the next time work sends me back east) and enjoy some shenanigans!



When legitimate stakeholders adopt that viewpoint it really is sad. Lots of people were all about trick to showoff and big bar tabs, and speaking for myself-not this year. Directly because of the unprofessional treatment I've received. I would never boycott Magic because someone out of their depth insulted me. We have too many friends and the skiing is too good. 

I'll ski the ribbon with you though, so by all means give me a heads up. Bust out the green Noronnas. 

Lots of these posts read like you'll be happy if Magic closes. If you feel that way kindly go fuck yourself. You know who you are.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 5, 2016)

roark said:


> Regardless, I hope to get up there mid-late Feb (the next time work sends me back east) and enjoy some shenanigans!



Looking forward to this. I recall standing outside one particularly chilly opening day with my wife waiting for first chair of the season and introducing myself to the only other person who was crazy enough to be waiting for first chair.  Turned out to be you!

Looks like the big mountains out by you are having a better season this year than last year!


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 5, 2016)

MMP said:


> Lots of these posts read like you'll be happy if Magic closes. If you feel that way kindly go fuck yourself. You know who you are.


I haven't gotten even a whiff of that.  People seem to want different management, but don't mistake that for wishing that the mountain would close.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 5, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Should we have let tom just not blow snow because the pump was not running.





The way this was worded made me laugh.  Made me wonder how many bathroom breaks you've scheduled to allow Tom each day.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 5, 2016)

I'll proofread next time. Although he must need many, you know he's getting old. I'll pencil them in.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Jan 5, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I haven't gotten even a whiff of that.  People seem to want different management, but don't mistake that for wishing that the mountain would close.



Agreed.I dont recall ever thinking that after these thousands of posts.


----------



## dlague (Jan 5, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> So should we have said nothing and let the tragedy just unfold? Should we have let tom just not blow snow because the pump was not running. Many of us have bought passes and 3/packs. Should we just wait for natural snow and skin up. When would you have spoken out about this? In the spring? It sucks all around but they have a commitment to at least try  at some point. It's the first week of January and we still don't have a lift ready/ inspected.



I get that and it is fine pointing out issues but the venomous tone here is a bit crazy.  Not all just a few.  The Burke thread has the same issue.  I like Magic and I will ski it this season at least once but i cannot get too worked up since my stake in Magic is minimal and if it does not work out then I can just go elsewhere.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 5, 2016)

When you've been lied to, misled, and strung along by how many management companies in a row, especially on snowmaking issues and lift maintenance/inspections, and rather than publicly confronting the issues, the delete comments or ban you on Facebook, it's very reasonable that people's tone to get that way.

What do you expect when mountain ownership allows this behavior repeatilly by several leasers, and the current lease holder is a minor stakeholder in the property?

This has gotten so bad that ownership may even lose their shirt in the mountain at some point!


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 5, 2016)

Any word on when the lift is scheduled to be inspected?


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 5, 2016)

Soon


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 5, 2016)

Tomorrow is Rednesday


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----------



## yeggous (Jan 5, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Soon



Lol


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----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 6, 2016)

Saturday (or Sunday or?)


----------



## Monica (Jan 6, 2016)

Somebody build a bonfire to the snow gods quick!!!!


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 6, 2016)

Another pretty good warm-up heading in this weekend, with no big SNOWSTORMS in sight. Hope they get a deep enough base down in time...


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Tomorrow is Rednesday


I'm assuming that this is your way of saying that the Red Chair is being inspected today?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 6, 2016)

An important day (despite a month late...). Expecting it to pass!


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----------



## Newpylong (Jan 6, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Another pretty good warm-up heading in this weekend, with no big SNOWSTORMS in sight. Hope they get a deep enough base down in time...



Snowmaking conditions return Monday night... Wet weekend though.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 6, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> An important day (despite a month late...). Expecting it to pass!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Good luck, hope all goes well. Thanks for your efforts.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> An important day (despite a month late...). Expecting it to pass!


I'm wishing you good luck as well.  This is a big one!


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 6, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> An important day (despite a month late...). Expecting it to pass!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



But what happens if it doesnt


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----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> But what happens if it doesnt


I think we all know the answer to that question.  That's why I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## Tin (Jan 6, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> But what happens if it doesnt
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Have you seen what the ranchers are doing in Oregon? I imagine a similar situation.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

It may be a good time to open up a tent to sell climbing skins.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 6, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> It may be a good time to open up a tent to sell climbing skins.



Smart marketing right there. Aligns perfectly with the best uphill policy in new England. Sell them out of the new gift shop


----------



## drjeff (Jan 6, 2016)

Buy a round on the shot ski, get 50% off on a new pair of skins! 

Fingers crossed for the Red, as if it all works out well between inspection and getting open and Magic being able to hold a race, I'll be riding the Red a week from Sunday!


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 6, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> But what happens if it doesnt


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 6, 2016)

And i guess the whole 2 lift idea was a pipe dream? 


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----------



## slatham (Jan 6, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> And i guess the whole 2 lift idea was a pipe dream?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




No, I wouldn't go that far. They did lots of work on Black this summer (I personally witnessed some of it) so not a pipe dream. Whether issues with Red have diverted resources from Black I cannot say, but I could imagine such a scenario. IMHO they don't need Black until a holiday period where they have significant terrain open, which short of a rather large dump next week will be Presidents. That said, always believed in having a back up.....


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 6, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> And i guess the whole 2 lift idea was a pipe dream?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



All it means is that we won't see you there until they get black going.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 6, 2016)

Hearing now that today is not the day for Red. Guess there are still two days left after today for the new, new, new opening day deadline of Jan 9, so why worry???


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Hearing now that today is not the day for Red. Guess there are still two days left after today for the new, new, new opening day deadline of Jan 9, so why worry???



Ouch!!


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 6, 2016)

slatham said:


> No, I wouldn't go that far. They did lots of work on Black this summer (I personally witnessed some of it) so not a pipe dream. Whether issues with Red have diverted resources from Black I cannot say, but I could imagine such a scenario. IMHO they don't need Black until a holiday period where they have significant terrain open, which short of a rather large dump next week will be Presidents. That said, always believed in having a back up.....



lipstick on a pig


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

Word on the Facebook page is that the inspection will happen tomorrow (Thursday).  That is cutting it insanely close.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 6, 2016)

Fb says counterweight tomorrow, not necessarily inspection. I just want to know if we'll be skiing on Sat or not.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 6, 2016)

They decided they were sick of people complaining that they don't have 2 lifts and left us with none. They stuck it to the man!!


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Fb says counterweight tomorrow, not necessarily inspection. I just want to know if we'll be skiing on Sat or not.


Good point.  I may have interpreted the post incorrectly.  I assumed that it meant that the chair was being inspected, but it probably means that the counterweight is being attended to tomorrow.  If that is indeed the case, that would leave precious little time for a lift inspection.


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 6, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Fb says counterweight tomorrow, not necessarily inspection. I just want to know if we'll be skiing on Sat or not.



While the lift not being inspected is certainly a concern for the upcoming weekend, I think the more pressing question is will they have made enough snow.  No snowmaking temps for the today, tomorrow & Friday during daytime hours.  Hopefully they can get enough made in the overnight windows in this time


----------



## mtl1076 (Jan 6, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Fb says counterweight tomorrow, not necessarily inspection. I just want to know if we'll be skiing on Sat or not.



First in regards to the counterweight/inspection it is very possible the rest of the lift has already been inspected and the counterweight is just the last piece.  If so, even though a tight timeline, it is not impossible to have it certified by the weekend.  

That said, no way they get a skiable path from the summit by the weekend.  They should just come out and say it now.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 6, 2016)

Can't imagine any of the emergency systems were inspected/tested if the counterweight wasn't ready.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 6, 2016)

mtl1076 said:


> That said, no way they get a skiable path from the summit by the weekend.  They should just come out and say it now.


If that is indeed the case, then they should say so as soon as possible.  Keeping people on the hook until the last minute won't make things better.  The good news is that this weekend may not be a good weekend for skiing anyway.  But we're getting awfully far into the year to have a ski area remain closed.


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## mtl1076 (Jan 6, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Can't imagine any of the emergency systems were inspected/tested if the counterweight wasn't ready.



Depends. If they just needed to get it a little higher there is no reason you couldn't run through the rest of the checks and inspect the line. Roll backs, stopping distances, fire extinguishers, communications, signage, etc. can all be done.  It is not uncommon to call for an inspection and end up with a list of items to fix.  Then the inspector comes back after the list has been completed and does a final. I have no idea what has or hasn't been done.  I'm just saying its possible.


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## Ski Till I Die (Jan 6, 2016)

Hey MagicSales ....we love you and we love Magic. 

The Ski Till I Die guys are already planning on coming out Feb 5th weekend and March 11th (tentatively)... snow or no snow. 

You know what... we dont even care if we ski! Thats right, RustyGroomer, is the bar open? No? Well shit, Parking Lot bar it is!


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 6, 2016)

Ski Till I Die said:


> Hey MagicSales ....we love you and we love Magic.
> 
> The Ski Till I Die guys are already planning on coming out Feb 5th weekend and March 11th (tentatively)... snow or no snow.
> 
> You know what... we dont even care if we ski! Thats right, RustyGroomer, is the bar open? No? Well shit, Parking Lot bar it is!



Let me know if you need a place to crash. We don't have a ball pit, but it's close enough to stumble home.


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## Ski Till I Die (Jan 6, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Let me know if you need a place to crash. We don't have a ball pit, but it's close enough to stumble home.



Hahaha be careful what you wish for...


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## zoomzoom (Jan 6, 2016)

maybe tom thought the lift inspector wouldn't notice insufficient ctw or carriage?  or maybe doesn't realize the implications of the cwt/carriage bumping into something on an e-stop?  or maybe he thought the inspector would let it slide?  how did the evac demo go?

am still planning on skiing there, a big fan.


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## mriceyman (Jan 6, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> All it means is that we won't see you there until they get black going.



Ya losing 3 hours of a ski day isnt fun. Especially when i have 2 kids under 2 and i can only get out maybe 5 times a year when i used to get out close to 20. 


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 6, 2016)

Fan guns focused on Tube Park tonight. 


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## UYSDYP (Jan 6, 2016)

Sweet!I Lemme guess because you don't need red to go tubing.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 6, 2016)

Tubing lift hasn't been inspected either...


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## slatham (Jan 6, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Sweet!I Lemme guess because you don't need red to go tubing.



While that is true, a real issue is the snowmaking window is < the time needed to cover Trick/Show Off given limitations of system, and lack of good day time temps today and tomorrow. Add in a warm weekend capped off with a sucker punch of a non-frozen storm and I might reconsider where I'm making snow and how much. Really shows how the pump/power issue last weekend really hurt. They're not getting any breaks (probably not helping themselves either if half of what's posted here is true). If they can get tubing open at least that will bring in some money and give the faithful something to do to work up a thirst for BLT.......

Bright side is next week looks colder, longer, with several clippers possible and just maybe one will..........

THINK SNOW!


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## roark (Jan 6, 2016)

honestly given the coming warm up... not sure blowing a bunch to have a chunk of it melt makes sense, but for the 'oh shit we should been open by now' factor.


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## wtcobb (Jan 6, 2016)

And there it is:



> Despite our best efforts, we will not be opening this weekend. After a great start to the week for our snowmakers, temperatures are expected to rise above freezing the next four days and there is a high possibility of rain both Saturday and Sunday. Our snowmakers are still working every night and we will be open for MLK Weekend.


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## Newpylong (Jan 6, 2016)

They just called it. No opening.


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## mriceyman (Jan 7, 2016)

Sad 


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## yeggous (Jan 7, 2016)

I previously booked the last weekend in January at the Upper Pass Lodge. Apparently that was a mistake. Oh well, I can drive elsewhere.


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## Tin (Jan 7, 2016)

yeggous said:


> I previously booked the last weekend in January at the Upper Pass Lodge. Apparently that was a mistake. Oh well, I can drive elsewhere.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app




Best place to stay in VT imo. Pico is about 50 minutes away if Magic isn't going. I'd take it over the other options.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 7, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> Sad
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



What's especially sad is taking last night's and this morning's snowmaking temps (over 14 hours so far) and blowing snow ONLY in the tube park. Season pass holders deserve a 100% effort to open the ski area at this point in season rather than trying to make a few bucks on tubing this weekend.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> What's especially sad is taking last night's and this morning's snowmaking temps (over 14 hours so far) and blowing snow ONLY in the tube park. Season pass holders deserve a 100% effort to open the ski area at this point in season rather than trying to make a few bucks on tubing this weekend.


Very good point.  It's definitely penny wise, pound foolish and shows a lack of vision.  I'm wondering if they are just trying to keep the lights on at this point.  I feel really badly for season pass holders.  I thought it was rough to have a pass at Burke, but this is even worse.  I know that Magic has always had its challenges, but management seems to be making one poor decision after another.  For example, diverting work from the Red Chair because the weather stayed warm.  Thanks to that boneheaded decision they still don't have the chair inspected and we're into January.


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## Smellytele (Jan 7, 2016)

yeggous said:


> I previously booked the last weekend in January at the Upper Pass Lodge. Apparently that was a mistake. Oh well, I can drive elsewhere.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



I am staying there MLK weekend. Guess I'll hit Stratton (got 45 tix deal) and Bromley


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> What's especially sad is taking last night's and this morning's snowmaking temps (over 14 hours so far) and blowing snow ONLY in the tube park. Season pass holders deserve a 100% effort to open the ski area at this point in season rather than trying to make a few bucks on tubing this weekend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Not sure if it is the same at Magic, but I know at other VT resorts, there are times, typically of high power demand, that Green Mountain Power (GMP) tells large users of electricity (and ski areas when they're making snow qualify as large users) that they need to power down for X number of hours.  Additionally there are similar type times when GMP looks at a clients power consumption to base future rate determinations off of, and as a result larger power users, when they are made aware of these times, purposely scale back their use while the assessment period is happening.  Whether or not this came into play at Magic or not in the last 24hrs I'm not sure,  it is a reality though that GMP does put into play at certain times that DOES effect ski area operations


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## UYSDYP (Jan 7, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Very good point.  It's definitely penny wise, pound foolish and shows a lack of vision.  I'm wondering if they are just trying to keep the lights on at this point.  I feel really badly for season pass holders.  I thought it was rough to have a pass at Burke, but this is even worse.  I know that Magic has always had its challenges, but management seems to be making one poor decision after another.  For example, diverting work from the Red Chair because the weather stayed warm.  Thanks to that boneheaded decision they still don't have the chair inspected and we're into January.[/QUvoluntAs a passholder this just burns. All we are asking for is 1 lift and 1 t2b trail. A little preparation in the fall would have prevented this bullshit. Now focusing on bar renos and tubing hills blows. While they both are great to have (in addition)and are other sources of income, I have a pass to ski. They cannot deliver that.  I would love a refund. We will never see such a thing but it is wishful  thinking. I wish the best for the mountain but this management has to go. As long as they run this place I will never own a pass again.


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## skithetrees (Jan 7, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> What's especially sad is taking last night's and this morning's snowmaking temps (over 14 hours so far) and blowing snow ONLY in the tube park. Season pass holders deserve a 100% effort to open the ski area at this point in season rather than trying to make a few bucks on tubing this weekend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I don't get it. Weren't people complaining earlier that the least the could do was open the tubing park?  Maybe they saw that it wasn't possible to open the lifts so they decided to cut their losses and at least have tubing open. Then there are people that demanded to see snowgun pictures and birches about where they were placed. Then the inspection of red and complained about black. Not that these aren't all valid points and that there are issues, but at this point it seems there is no pleasing anyone without full snowmaking on the whole mountain followed by 2 feet of snow and brand new lifts and a management change and new lodge and you get the point. 

I get it, there are real issues, but when half the mountains n VT aren't open for Christmas, can you really be mad magic isn't. There is no real difference this year and the last couple of years in the status of the mountain. The only difference is that they got really unlucky with the weather. They could change management and owners and still hve the same thing happen next year for Christmas. People ski magic for the great days and the loyals put up with the bad ones. While this is disappointing, how surprised can anyone really be?


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## cdskier (Jan 7, 2016)

In all seriousness though, it really is a shame that there are all these issues as passholders don't deserve to be jerked around like this...


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> I don't get it. Weren't people complaining earlier that the least the could do was open the tubing park?  Maybe they saw that it wasn't possible to open the lifts so they decided to cut their losses and at least have tubing open. Then there are people that demanded to see snowgun pictures and birches about where they were placed. Then the inspection of red and complained about black. Not that these aren't all valid points and that there are issues, but at this point it seems there is no pleasing anyone without full snowmaking on the whole mountain followed by 2 feet of snow and brand new lifts and a management change and new lodge and you get the point.
> 
> I get it, there are real issues, but when half the mountains n VT aren't open for Christmas, can you really be mad magic isn't. There is no real difference this year and the last couple of years in the status of the mountain. The only difference is that they got really unlucky with the weather. They could change management and owners and still hve the same thing happen next year for Christmas. People ski magic for the great days and the loyals put up with the bad ones. While this is disappointing, how surprised can anyone really be?



I don't blame anyone for being royally pissed off that they can't get a single run serviced by a chair lift open prior to MLK weekend - even with the weather we have had.


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## slatham (Jan 7, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> What's especially sad is taking last night's and this morning's snowmaking temps (over 14 hours so far) and blowing snow ONLY in the tube park. Season pass holders deserve a 100% effort to open the ski area at this point in season rather than trying to make a few bucks on tubing this weekend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



That's disappointing and leads me to conclude that Magic will rely on Trick/Show Off, beginner area and tubing, until they get a dump and hence generate day ticket sales. Thereafter, _maybe _they will make snow on other trails. So once again its wait for a dump and then hit Magic. Assuming they can spin a lift that is. This pales in comparison to what I heard the approach of this past summers investor group was going to be.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

slatham said:


> That's disappointing and leads me to conclude that Magic will rely on Trick/Show Off, beginner area and tubing, until they get a dump and hence generate day ticket sales. Thereafter, _maybe _they will make snow on other trails. So once again its wait for a dump and then hit Magic. Assuming they can spin a lift that is. This pales in comparison to what I heard the approach of this past summers investor group was going to be.



Well, look at the bright side.  The investor group waiting in the wings may be able to pick up Magic for a whole lot cheaper now.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 7, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Not sure if it is the same at Magic, but I know at other VT resorts, there are times, typically of high power demand, that Green Mountain Power (GMP) tells large users of electricity (and ski areas when they're making snow qualify as large users) that they need to power down for X number of hours.  Additionally there are similar type times when GMP looks at a clients power consumption to base future rate determinations off of, and as a result larger power users, when they are made aware of these times, purposely scale back their use while the assessment period is happening.  Whether or not this came into play at Magic or not in the last 24hrs I'm not sure,  it is a reality though that GMP does put into play at certain times that DOES effect ski area operations



Good points but GMP had zero to do with this decision. Operator/minority owner decided against advice of his ops to move ELECTRIC fan guns from Show Off to Tube Park to blow that area all last night into today. Temps still good. Your race trail will need more work for next week and not a flake has been made above Show Off all season. And there has been plenty of cold nights at elevation prior to this week to make snow in piles at top (to preserve them) so that you are simply adding on as temps drop for lower elevation trails. The ownership apparently doesn't realize it's a ski area first and a bar 2nd (or maybe I have it wrong after all these years)


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Good points but GMP had zero to do with this decision. Operator/minority owner decided against advice of his ops to move ELECTRIC fan guns from Show Off to Tube Park to blow that area all last night into today. Temps still good. Your race trail will need more work for next week and not a flake has been made above Show Off all season. And there has been plenty of cold nights at elevation prior to this week to make snow in piles at top (to preserve them) so that you are simply adding on as temps drop for lower elevation trails. The ownership apparently doesn't realize it's a ski area first and a bar 2nd (or maybe I have it wrong after all these years)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I kind of figured it was more a management decision than a GMP imposed move when I hadn't heard of any of the other ski areas within a 20 mile or so radius of Magic having to power down   Part of me though wanted to think that it was something realistically beyond their control vs something of their own doing... Ugh


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## MMP (Jan 7, 2016)

Someone in magics office planning their production based on time critical power rate and availability information. 


Ahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhaha

Oh man, that's funny. 




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## MMP (Jan 7, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> I don't get it. Weren't people complaining earlier that the least the could do was open the tubing park?  Maybe they saw that it wasn't possible to open the lifts so they decided to cut their losses and at least have tubing open. Then there are people that demanded to see snowgun pictures and birches about where they were placed. Then the inspection of red and complained about black. Not that these aren't all valid points and that there are issues, but at this point it seems there is no pleasing anyone without full snowmaking on the whole mountain followed by 2 feet of snow and brand new lifts and a management change and new lodge and you get the point.
> 
> I get it, there are real issues, but when half the mountains n VT aren't open for Christmas, can you really be mad magic isn't. There is no real difference this year and the last couple of years in the status of the mountain. The only difference is that they got really unlucky with the weather. They could change management and owners and still hve the same thing happen next year for Christmas. People ski magic for the great days and the loyals put up with the bad ones. While this is disappointing, how surprised can anyone really be?



People were talking about the tubing as a means to generate revenue over the holiday. Lodging, restaurants, etc. 

Try to focus. Promises were made. Accountability and complaining are not equivalents. 


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## yeggous (Jan 7, 2016)

Every time I have any complain about another mountain I read this thread and feel better. And I include Burke in that.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 7, 2016)

slatham said:


> That's disappointing and leads me to conclude that Magic will rely on Trick/Show Off, beginner area and tubing, until they get a dump and hence generate day ticket sales. Thereafter, _maybe _they will make snow on other trails. So once again its wait for a dump and then hit Magic. Assuming they can spin a lift that is. This pales in comparison to what I heard the approach of this past summers investor group was going to be.



Nailed it!  The only way Magic survives is if management finally wakes up one day and realizes what a complete and utter failure they are!


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## BlueTrails (Jan 7, 2016)

MMP said:


> People were talking about the tubing as a means to generate revenue over the holiday. Lodging, restaurants, etc.
> 
> Try to focus. Promises were made. Accountability and complaining are not equivalents.
> 
> ...



Can't pay any bills or payroll on a few beers and hamburgs.  The tube park is unique as it runs after dark.  It is the best revenue option right now.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> It is the best revenue option right now.


That's only true because they have no skiing.  And let's not forget the opportunity cost with all of the pass holders who will look elsewhere next year.


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## yeggous (Jan 7, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> Can't pay any bills or payroll on a few beers and hamburgs.  The tube park is unique as it runs after dark.  It is the best revenue option right now.



Yes. Cheap to open. Cheap to operate. Nearly as much per visit revenue. Smart business move.


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## cdskier (Jan 7, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Yes. Cheap to open. Cheap to operate. Nearly as much per visit revenue. Smart business move.



Perhaps smart in the short-term, but based on some of the comments here from pass-holders it could hurt them in the long term if pass-holders decide not to buy next year. Of course it could also start dumping snow soon and then many will forget all about these problems...


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## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Yes. Cheap to open. Cheap to operate. Nearly as much per visit revenue. Smart business move.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


But doesn't it draw a LOT less visitors than skiing would?


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

Bottom line, Magic, if they can have the terrain open, has a group of typically 300 or so, scheduled to be there a week from Sunday for a Southern VT U12 age group dual GS race. That has to be looked at as a decent cash influx opportunity, between the ticket sales for racers and parents (even though they're not full price tickets) and food and beverage revenues.

As of now it's still on. I will be actively looking at my email inbox between now and next Wed when typically the final race decision is made...


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 7, 2016)

With the decision to blow tubing area, they will not have enough time to blow an alternate lower mountain route down other than Show Off, so race revenue opportunity will be lost until later in the season I'm afraid. Tubing will bring in less than $2K on a non-holiday weekend. Revenue per visit doesn't even compare to skiing.


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## Smellytele (Jan 7, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Bottom line, Magic, if they can have the terrain open, has a group of typically 300 or so, scheduled to be there a week from Sunday for a Southern VT U12 age group dual GS race. That has to be looked at as a decent cash influx opportunity, between the ticket sales for racers and parents (even though they're not full price tickets) and food and beverage revenues.
> 
> As of now it's still on. I will be actively looking at my email inbox between now and next Wed when typically the final race decision is made...



The 17th?


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## yeggous (Jan 7, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> But doesn't it draw a LOT less visitors than skiing would?



You tell me. I don't know the area. In my neck of the woods tubing at Cranmore is a cash cow.


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## 69skier (Jan 7, 2016)

TB is living in a fantasy. The best thing is foreclosure of the mountain and have new owners come in. Agree that no way I will be purchasing season passes here with this nut in the drivers seat!


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## UYSDYP (Jan 7, 2016)

It's nothing like the setup at cranmore. In terms of visits and course. It's decent non the less. Stopping is the tricky part though. Think rinkydink


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## WWF-VT (Jan 7, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Bottom line, Magic, if they can have the terrain open, has a group of typically 300 or so, scheduled to be there a week from Sunday for a Southern VT U12 age group dual GS race. That has to be looked at as a decent cash influx opportunity, between the ticket sales for racers and parents (even though they're not full price tickets) and food and beverage revenues.
> 
> As of now it's still on. I will be actively looking at my email inbox between now and next Wed when typically the final race decision is made...



Dual Slalom course set up on the tubing hill sounds like way more fun than a downhill GS race.  Racers could do one run on skis and the second run on a tube.  This could be the beginning of a new Olympic sport.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

Everyone take a deep breath and remind yourself that even though they don't have skiing, they still have delicious smores.


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> The 17th?



yup


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

WWF-VT said:


> Dual Slalom course set up on the tubing hill sounds like way more fun than a downhill GS race.  Racers could do one run on skis and the second run on a tube.  This could be the beginning of a new Olympic sport.



If that happens, then I sure hope they let the parents participate as well! 

While I will concede that at least my oldest can now beat me in the gates, the mass advantage I'd have in a tube would be insurmountable verses either of my kids that would be racing that day! :lol:


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## WoodCore (Jan 7, 2016)

I think Magic has lost a lot of pass holders and potential pass holders already. You can get a season pass at a nearby major resort (Stratton) for almost $250 less than what Magic is charging. It is blacked out for the holidays but you're getting a ton more bang for your buck and a *MUCH* more reliable product without the drama. Some will argue about how much better the terrain is at Magic, I agree but how good is that terrain without any snow and a lift to get you to the top of it??


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## slatham (Jan 7, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Bottom line, Magic, if they can have the terrain open, has a group of typically 300 or so, scheduled to be there a week from Sunday for a Southern VT U12 age group dual GS race. That has to be looked at as a decent cash influx opportunity, between the ticket sales for racers and parents (even though they're not full price tickets) and food and beverage revenues.
> 
> As of now it's still on. I will be actively looking at my email inbox between now and next Wed when typically the final race decision is made...



I find it hard to believe - without a dump - that they have more than Trick/Show Off for MLK. And I find it hard to believe that with only one run they will use a big part of it for a race. But then again, there have been many things that have actually happened that I found hard to believe.......


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## Smellytele (Jan 7, 2016)

drjeff said:


> yup



Well with that info even if they are open I will ski somewhere else even though I am staying at the Upper Pass. Bromley most likely. I will save my Magic vouchers for later in the season.


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Well with that info even if they are open I will ski somewhere else even though I am staying at the Upper Pass. Bromley most likely. I will save my Magic vouchers for later in the season.



I'll keep the AZ folks updated as to the status of the race as we head on towards MLK weekend


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 7, 2016)

As someone who skis Magic 25-35 days a year, I have become very frustrated.  So frustrated I was going to use lifetime AZ post #10 to wave the white flag and give up on Magic. I was going to rail on how incompetent management has been. Point out that a former NELSAP in Southern, CT is opening tomorrow. Point out there is a good chance Ascutney will open before Magic, etc. I was going to tell people that if they need me, I'll be at Timber Ridge.

But then I found the answer...









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## WoodCore (Jan 7, 2016)

Pretty sad when your snowmaking output is dwarfed by the meager system at Whaleback.     









 


After a tough start to the season we are pleased to announce we  are opening for top to bottom skiing/riding on Saturday 9AM. We owe this  to a Herculean effort of our snowmakers who have moved heaven and earth  in a few short days to make this happen. 

The run off the summit will be Lift Line to Dorsal to Scrimshaw.

We hope to see returning and new faces this year at our hill.

I have attached pictures of our snowmaking efforts for you to enjoy.














​ 
[/quote]


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## UYSDYP (Jan 7, 2016)

That's what the rangers with tracks look like on snow. Forget red Maybe they can convert the bed into 4 seats and bring us up 5 at a time x2. Kinda like micro snowcat tours. Bet they could get a premium for that. Maybe offer early departures on pow dayz.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 7, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> That's what the rangers with tracks look like on snow. Forget red Maybe they can convert the bed into 4 seats and bring us up 5 at a time x2. Kinda like micro snowcat tours. Bet they could get a premium for that. Maybe offer early departures on pow dayz.





Timber Ridge, the best run ski area on Glebe Mountain, beat them to it. 


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## UYSDYP (Jan 7, 2016)

They just can't be first at anything. Must be all their bad luck. Maybe timber ridge will blow enough snow for a t2b and fill the vacuum left by the magical incompetence.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 7, 2016)

Let's turn back to the first post in this thread with a quote from Tom Barker " they could not contain cost to 75% of revenue. I’m facing that same problem. Relative to what will be done going forward, I am forced to make Magic work the old fashioned way, selling more stuff than I have to buy. My focus now and for the foreseeable future will be cost control. Last year Magic’s total revenue was about $950K and its total costs were $950K +/- $2K. That defines a breakeven situation. I will be focused on (1) maintaining or growing the revenue, (2) putting in enough money to carry operations through to winter without borrowing, (3) managing cost to end the year $200 to $300 K in the black and (4) rolling that extra cash back into the mountain on the type projects that were targeted by MFC funds. 

As always I’m always available for discussions and I will be posting a manager’s blog to describe what is happening."

From here on I would like to give the incredible disappearing and never available Mr. Barker the nickname Carnival Barker. His cheapskate antics have rendered the mountain unable to meet its minimal obligations to passholders in a tough year.  Frankly, a tough year is his problem. I will stopping by on Saturday AM before I ski elsewhere to ask for my money back. When that is turned down I will bring the issue up with the AG and the tramway board next week.

Any discussion you are available for Carnival Barker?


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## BlueTrails (Jan 8, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> With the decision to blow tubing area, they will not have enough time to blow an alternate lower mountain route down other than Show Off, so race revenue opportunity will be lost until later in the season I'm afraid. Tubing will bring in less than $2K on a non-holiday weekend. Revenue per visit doesn't even compare to skiing.



Alternate route?  Nah.....I fully expect the race to be held with the season pass holders flying down the hill at the same time.  Seen it before.  Why change now?  We need the dough.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 8, 2016)

^^^ Bwaaahahaha and shameful.  The Magic faithful deserves so much more!  Whaleback?  Really?  Simply pathetic.


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## Bostonian (Jan 8, 2016)

So the real question is who will open first - Tenney or Magic


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## marcski (Jan 8, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Let's turn back to the first post in this thread with a quote from Tom Barker " they could not contain cost to 75% of revenue. I’m facing that same problem. Relative to what will be done going forward, I am forced to make Magic work the old fashioned way, selling more stuff than I have to buy. My focus now and for the foreseeable future will be cost control. Last year Magic’s total revenue was about $950K and its total costs were $950K +/- $2K. That defines a breakeven situation. I will be focused on (1) maintaining or growing the revenue, (2) putting in enough money to carry operations through to winter without borrowing, (3) managing cost to end the year $200 to $300 K in the black and (4) rolling that extra cash back into the mountain on the type projects that were targeted by MFC funds.
> 
> As always I’m always available for discussions and I will be posting a manager’s blog to describe what is happening."
> 
> ...



Sorry to say, but the AG and the tramway board will laugh you out of their offices.  Nothing about what is happening at Magic this season is surprising or anyway out of the norm for a small ski area struggling against the wrath of mother nature, El Nino and climate chamge.  They have done nothing illegal. Lol.


----------



## slatham (Jan 8, 2016)

Rather than the AG and Tramway, you should find Rob Lyszczarz and convince him to sell!


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

I agree that the AG will not give you the help you are seeking.  At least not at this point.

I wonder what would happen if somebody tried to challenge the charge on their credit card.  It has to be a long shot, but at this point I'd be thinking about any and all options to get my money back.


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 8, 2016)

marcski said:


> Sorry to say, but the AG and the tramway board will laugh you out of their offices.  Nothing about what is happening at Magic this season is surprising or anyway out of the norm for a small ski area struggling against the wrath of mother nature, El Nino and climate chamge.  They have done nothing illegal. Lol.



Not having a lift inspected before january should have no bearing on what the weather is. 



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## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

I recall reading that they need to get a crane in to adjust the counterweight on the Red Chair, and that the counterweight needs to be adjusted in order for the lift to pass inspection.  I also recall reading that the Red Chair would be ready for this weekend.  So... has anyone seen a crane up there and/or an inspector?  Even if they are delaying their opening yet again, why would they wait even longer to get the chair in shape to be inspected?  I can't think of any reason whatsoever.


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## slatham (Jan 8, 2016)

Regarding the AG, you would have a valid argument of fraud IF Magic had not contacted the VT Tramway for an inspection. This would prove they have no intention to open, yet were advertising they would open, collecting money etc etc. I find this incredibly unlikely, even with all the shenanigans that have been occurring lately. Bad weather, bad luck and bad (but not negligent/fraudulent) business decisions are sometimes what consumers have to deal with.


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## Magic (Jan 8, 2016)

Just read they are not opening tubing now until NEXT THURSDAY!!! I guess they did not get any lifts inspected. WTF. Wake me up from this nightmare!


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## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

Magic said:


> Just read they are not opening tubing now until NEXT THURSDAY!!! I guess they did not get any lifts inspected. WTF. Wake me up from this nightmare!


So the theory that it was worth it to get tubing open if they couldn't get skiing open ust went down the drain.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 8, 2016)

Man, so sorry for you folks.  This really sucks.


----------



## marcski (Jan 8, 2016)

It is so sad...  I grew up skiing at Magic.  I'm really not in the know anymore, but I assume Magic has enough water and snow making infrastructure to cover at least a few trails top to bottom.  If that is true, the *ONLY* reason they are not open at this juncture is due to management not wanting to spend the money.  "If you build it they will come."  Magic's management has not and doesn't seem to be "building it" or making snow as is the case in the ski industry, to get anyone to come.  Management truly seems to be running the place into the ground back onto NELSAP.  I, too, feel badly for any season pass holders.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 8, 2016)

slatham said:


> Rather than the AG and Tramway, you should find Rob Lyszczarz and convince him to sell!



I think you have the only solution to the problem. I can't understand why he continues to hold onto Magic. Too bad the mortgage holder can't (won't?) force him out.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 8, 2016)

marcski said:


> It is so sad...  I grew up skiing at Magic.  I'm really not in the know anymore, but I assume Magic has enough water and snow making infrastructure to cover at least a few trails top to bottom.  If that is true, the *ONLY* reason they are not open at this juncture is due to management not wanting to spend the money.  "If you build it they will come."  Magic's management has not and doesn't seem to be "building it" or making snow as is the case in the ski industry, to get anyone to come.  Management truly seems to be running the place into the ground back onto NELSAP.  I, too, feel badly for any season pass holders.



The current operator (minority owner) thinks the only way to make the mountain viable is to control costs and by that he means not spending money. He doesn't seem to understand that you have to spend money to make money. One big problem is that he doesn't have the money to spend and what is happening is a result of that.

 Why Lyszczarz (sp?) didn't sell when there were buyers who wanted to buy and invest, I don't understand. Does anyone?


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 8, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I recall reading that they need to get a crane in to adjust the counterweight on the Red Chair, and that the counterweight needs to be adjusted in order for the lift to pass inspection.  I also recall reading that the Red Chair would be ready for this weekend.  So... has anyone seen a crane up there and/or an inspector?  Even if they are delaying their opening yet again, why would they wait even longer to get the chair in shape to be inspected?  I can't think of any reason whatsoever.



I heard that they had a way to adjust the counter weight without a crane. There was an inspector at the Red Chair yesterday and, I think,  today. Before who I think was the inspector came today, the purple cat was was doing something at the base station - maybe adjusting the counter weight some how? The people who were there are gone. I'm not sure what happened.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I heard that they had a way to adjust the counter weight without a crane. There was an inspector at the Red Chair yesterday and, I think,  today. Before who I think was the inspector came today, the purple cat was was doing something at the base station - maybe adjusting the counter weight some how? The people who were there are gone. I'm not sure what happened.



You'd think if the chair passed inspection they would have announced it.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 8, 2016)

Hear that final inspection on Red is coming Monday and that all looks good now. Let's hope so! 

As for the Tubing news. Are you freaking kidding me????????? What a waste of ops time blowing snow there (and not on ski trails) and then not opening it this weekend and at least getting $2k. TB is running those guys in circles. Feel really bad for them having to deal with him. Now it's going to be hell for them trying to get the ski area open for MLK. Cold weather will help next week but it will be all out to get it done.


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## WoodCore (Jan 8, 2016)

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=373


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 8, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Hear that final inspection on Red is coming Monday and that all looks good now. Let's hope so!
> 
> As for the Tubing news. Are you freaking kidding me????????? What a waste of ops time blowing snow there (and not on ski trails) and then not opening it this weekend and at least getting $2k. TB is running those guys in circles. Feel really bad for them having to deal with him. Now it's going to be hell for them trying to get the ski area open for MLK. Cold weather will help next week but it will be all out to get it done.



They won't need to blow any snow if they don't get the lifts fixed correctly the way the inspector wants, so that it will pass inspection.  Keep trying to nickle and dime a cheap fix, instead of doing it right the first time!


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## rtjcbrown (Jan 8, 2016)

As an outsider looking in, I find this both sad and amazing. Seems like the ship has hit the iceberg, and no matter what the captain says, this baby is sinking.
Who I going to buy a season's pass next year? 
Too much bad publicity.
Toast


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## Magic (Jan 8, 2016)

The FB post written by the mountain saying tubing will open Thursday is now GONE! They can't keep up with their own lies at this point...


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## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

rtjcbrown said:


> As an outsider looking in, I find this both sad and amazing. Seems like the ship has hit the iceberg, and no matter what the captain says, this baby is sinking.
> Toast


I hate to say it, but I agree with you.  I don't see any way current management is going to get out of this death spiral.  If I owned a condo up there, I'd get it on the market as soon as the lifts start spinning and hope that it sells fast.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 8, 2016)

Magic said:


> The FB post written by the mountain saying tubing will open Thursday is now GONE! They can't keep up with their own lies at this point...



They've deleted half the posts that got put up this afternoon.


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## slatham (Jan 8, 2016)

Communist censorship. Great. We should be careful with our comments or some of us might go missing while skiing the woods. Assuming that ever happens.


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 8, 2016)

a heron-poma ctw is attached to the carriage by a reeved cable system, a six part line (or maybe 8?).  the movement of ctw and carriage are synchronous, however the reeving system allows the ctw ht to be adjusted using a tag line attached to a heavy piece of machinery.  usually a dozer of significant weight.  divide the mass of the ctw by the advantage in the system, add some for friction, and give it a try.  not sure if a snowcat has the weight or traction.  but no need for a crane to pick it straight up.  look at the back of the drive building some day, you'll see a hole for the tag line.  (IIRC).  not an expert, but i play one on the interwebz.  : )


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## twinplanx (Jan 8, 2016)

The news from Magic just gets worse. Aside from there snow making issues, what will it take to get the place up and running? I know there's a lot of love for the Red Chair. What will it take to address the counterweight issue? And seriously WTF is with Black? Red definitely needs an backup. Perhaps a surface lift(or series of)will provide a cost effective alternative? Current "management" is failing. But I do believe in Magic! I hope they can get there act together. Or someone with a reasonable business model can step in before it's to late...


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## marcski (Jan 8, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> The news from Magic just gets worse. Aside from there snow making issues, what will it take to get the place up and running? I know there's a lot of love for the Red Chair. What will it take to address the counterweight issue? And seriously WTF is with Black? Red definitely needs an backup. Perhaps a surface lift(or series of)will provide a cost effective alternative? Current "management" is failing. But I do believe in Magic! I hope they can get there act together. Or someone with a reasonable business model can step in before it's to late...


Someone did apparently...but these guys didn't want to sell.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

New Facebook update:

Lift inspections were performed Thursday morning. They gave us a punch list to perform before they do the final check Monday - all simple stuff - all done today (including resetting the counterweights on the Red Line chair lifts.)

The Red Line and the Tube Park Lift should be ready to pass with flying colors on Monday. We will post results after the inspection.
The Black Line lift is currently being worked on, but will be at least two more weeks before it's ready for inspection; Mountain Ops priority is to produce SNOW.

The bigger hurdle continues to be the lack of snowfall and the scarcity of weather that's cold/dry enough to make our own snow. That said, our goal is to open the Red Line chairlift by Saturday, Jan 16. If snowmaking goes incredibly well, it's possible we'll be ready Friday, or maybe even Thursday the 14th, which is our current goal - but for now, we're predicting an opening on Saturday the 16th. Ski trails first, Tube Park as soon as possible after.

Please know that the team at Magic is doing everything in our power to provide a fun, safe place to ski, snowboard, tube and to learn. Nobody wants that more than us.

We're doing everything possible to prepare for and provide a "Magical" experience as soon as the depth of snow will safely allow.



.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 8, 2016)

Boy can they make a big steaming pile of shit sound like an ice cream cone.  I feel for ya Magic faithful and employees.


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## mriceyman (Jan 8, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> We're doing everything possible to prepare for and provide a "Magical" experience as soon as the depth of snow will safely allow.
> .



Nabahahahah


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 8, 2016)

Just proves they've done nothing but effing LIE about ever being able to open at any time before this date.


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## rocks860 (Jan 8, 2016)

So what do we think, 2 years until the black lift is open? Assuming the mountain is still running.


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## slatham (Jan 8, 2016)

Nothing to do but wait, pray for snow, and see what happens. At least the deafening silence has been lifted. Just hope there's some thruth in there. Time will tell.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 8, 2016)

Just waiting for the FB post that says we're past the statistical mid point of winter. Beyond our greatest efforts were sorry to announce that it is just not viable to blow snow at this point , or turn red because we have been diligently working on black. Remember think snow we'll see you next year magicfaithful.


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## Tin (Jan 8, 2016)

I got some Powerball tickets. I win, I buy Magic.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 8, 2016)

What do they use for a tubing lift?  I'm assuming a handle tow?  

Seems either suspect or insane that they couldn't have it running this weekend.  I'm hoping it's the former and just dishonesty about not wanting to run the lift and open the tubing hill this weekend on account of bad weather.

If it's the latter and the lift can't pass inspection; isn't that the skiing equivalent of not being able to get a moped inspected because you don't know how to put the chain on?


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## xwhaler (Jan 8, 2016)

Handle tow yes. They have 2 handle tows. 1 they mask as their beginner lift which is not ideal as true beginners don't do so well with non carpet surface lifts


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## jrmagic (Jan 8, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> What do they use for a tubing lift?  I'm assuming a handle tow?
> 
> Seems either suspect or insane that they couldn't have it running this weekend.  I'm hoping it's the former and just dishonesty about not wanting to run the lifts an open this weekend.
> 
> If it's the latter and the lift can't pass inspection; isn't that the equivalent of not getting a moped inspected because you don't know how to put the chain on?



They definitely didn't have enough snow under the tube park tow line  to pass final inspection. No idea if they had all the other aspects that could be looked at ahead of time though I suspect that didn't happen based on everything else.


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## jrmagic (Jan 8, 2016)

Tin said:


> I got some Powerball tickets. I win, I buy Magic.



Yeah there's a few hundred of us with that plan. Hope one of those happen!


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## mriceyman (Jan 8, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> Yeah there's a few hundred of us with that plan. Hope one of those happen!



Hell thats my plan as well.. Would only be a tiny fraction of the winnings


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## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

They are deleting Facebook comments left and right.


.


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 8, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> They are deleting Facebook comments left and right.
> 
> 
> .



At Soviet Magic, Facebook comment delete you!


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## twinplanx (Jan 8, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> Handle tow yes. They have 2 handle tows. 1 they mask as their beginner lift which is not ideal as true beginners don't do so well with non carpet surface lifts


Hey, if you can ski up, you can ski down...


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 8, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> They are deleting Facebook comments left and right.
> 
> 
> .



It's crazy. They have essentially blocked every one of their regular customers from posting on Facebook. It is so comical that if someone wrote an article about Magic's management they would have to clarify that it is not satire. 


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## zoomzoom (Jan 8, 2016)

re: the tubing handle tow.  

you can't just make snow under the cable for the tubes to be dragged up and call it "good".  there has to be a consistant grade with no reverse slopes that will allow the tube to become detached from the handle (otherwise, yeeee -haww!).  also, there has to be just a pinch of side slope to keep the tubes away from under the line, 'cause you don't want to ride up with the cable pinning you to the tube.  

also, there has to be a significant snow path through the unload zone to the top bullwheel, in case you don't unload correctly.  there also has to be a sufficient snow berm from top to bottom, separating the uphill tubing passengers from a down-going tube rider.  collisions have been pretty horrific, btw.

these condtions will be checked during unannounced spot inspections throughout the winter.        

the last thing the inspector wants to do is fail an inspection, especially at this time of year.  sounds like state OT is cut, if he can't come back until monday.  fooking bad luck?


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## BlueTrails (Jan 9, 2016)

Snow Guarantee!  Sound crazy?  It's reality at some ski areas.

Snoqualime (WA) offers a discount on next's year season pass if they don't open enough days the current year.

Pretty smart marketing.   Yeah, 'marketing'.....the stuff a company does to _*lure*_ people to their business. 
_Create value for the customer._

What does Magic do?  Behead people on FB!!!

http://www.summitatsnoqualmie.com/tickets-and-passes/season-passes/preferred-pricing-snow-guarantee


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## doublediamond (Jan 9, 2016)

marcski said:


> Someone did apparently...but these guys didn't want to sell.



The story I heard is the new ownership wanted to invest in snowmaking to make Magic sustainable and the minority owner threw a hissy fit that it'll "destroy Magic's charm" or some bs like that.  No need to go Okemo on the place, but you can't get skiers the way the place is now.  One trail - possibly nothing - for MLK? Two maybe for Prez week?  

People are seeing through their "we have no weather" lies.  Both Bromely (20-for-47) and Stratton (53-for-94) are open.  Ascutney soon on natural.

This is a fucking joke.


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## Sorcerer (Jan 9, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> The story I heard is the new ownership wanted to invest in snowmaking to make Magic sustainable and the minority owner threw a hissy fit that it'll "destroy Magic's charm" or some bs like that.  No need to go Okemo on the place, but you can't get skiers the way the place is now.  One trail - possibly nothing - for MLK? Two maybe for Prez week?
> 
> People are seeing through their "we have no weather" lies.  Both Bromely (20-for-47) and Stratton (53-for-94) are open.  Ascutney soon on natural.
> 
> This is a fucking joke.



I heard that the minority owner (operator) had agreed to sell after some "discussions" with the majority owner. Then the majority owner pulled something unexpected (not unusual for him) during due diligence that blew the deal. I think that the problems at Magic all resolve around the lack of funds. There was someone who was supposed to supply some funding but after a short time he "disappeared".


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## mister moose (Jan 9, 2016)

Watching this unfold from up the road an hour, I have a question.

First the disclaimer: I haven't been to Magic in years.  Decades.  I'm sure there's part of the story I'm missing, and even more that hasn't been made public.  I get it that there are significant infrastructure obstacles to overcome, and that takes a lot of money.

There have been several efforts to reinvigorate Magic.  Mistakes were made.  Mistakes are also inevitable amongst mere humans.

Isn't it likely that in spite of all the effort, in spite of a crowd funding gift from Magic's faithful ("The Club") the rent on the place is just too damn high?  The asking price on the sale is too high?

That's why Ascutney didn't sell to anyone.  Likely why Maple Valley isn't selling to anyone.  Sell me Maple Valley for a dollar, and I bet I could turn a profit.  In addition, the towns need to value these parcels at a value that allows the taxes to be such to allow an operation to be profitable.  So sell me maple Valley for a dollar, tax me on a value of a dollar parcel, and boom, I make money and am viable.

Oh, a dollar is ridiculous you say.  Of course.  But like the old hooker joke, now we're just talking price.

Do the owners and the town over-value Magic?


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## Wardrobe (Jan 9, 2016)

mister moose said:


> Watching this unfold from up the road an hour, I have a question.
> 
> First the disclaimer: I haven't been to Magic in years.  Decades.  I'm sure there's part of the story I'm missing, and even more that hasn't been made public.  I get it that there are significant infrastructure obstacles to overcome, and that takes a lot of money.
> 
> ...



The ski operation at Magic is a white elephant in its current state.  In a good snow season in which snowmaking is not really needed, perhaps Magic can break even.  In a bad snow season like we are having now, the snow making system is so antiquated that it cannot make enough snow to attract an adequate number of skiers to cover the costs of running the mountain.  One of the main goals of the shareholder plan a few years ago was to raise money to invest in the snowmaking system to make the ski operation sustainable.  The shareholder plan failed for a variety of reasons.  

One issue that likely spooks potential investors is that even when all of the trails are open, the only days with a significant number of paying customers are powder days.  Why invest $1 million + in snowmaking if people won't come to cover your cost?  

What Magic needs is deep pocketed investors that love the mountain and do not necessarily care about earning a profit or even losing money.  The shareholder plan was a good idea in theory but its execution was its fatal flaw.


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## BlueTrails (Jan 9, 2016)

mister moose said:


> Watching this unfold from up the road an hour, I have a question.
> 
> First the disclaimer: I haven't been to Magic in years.  Decades.  I'm sure there's part of the story I'm missing, and even more that hasn't been made public.  I get it that there are significant infrastructure obstacles to overcome, and that takes a lot of money.
> 
> ...



I drive by Maple Valley all the time.  Not sure I'd take it for a dollar.  You need a few Mil to open.  Groomers cost more than houses.  All the lifts would have to be completely replaced.  But I would love to see it open, especially for night skiing.  Magic used to have night skiing.

Londonderry is dying for Magic to open.  All the local businesses thrive on the income stream.  I'm sure it's tough all over from the IGA to the UPL.

Rent is not the issue. Right now any rent money would just be moving from the right pocket to the left.

Yeah, the crowding funding gift.  That's a good story.  Where did that money go?


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## zoomzoom (Jan 9, 2016)

magic needs natural snow, and badly, every year.  (duh!)  

the aging snowmaking pipes need patching due to corrosion and the snowguns are relatively inefficient compared to what's on the market these days.  but i think the real hinderance to s-m performance is the amount of available water in the pond, and the time it needs to regen when emptied.  pls, somebody tell me i'm wrong.

with good temps it seems like you can get top-to-bottom or tubing, but not both.


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## slatham (Jan 9, 2016)

My understanding is that the pond is not an issue given current system capacity. I've been told it re-fills very quickly. But you are correct that if the systems output (and budget) were increased then they would need to fix the dam to fully fill the pond.


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## doublediamond (Jan 9, 2016)

The Pond isn't that big of a deal.  If it was it would have been fixed.

From Google Earth, it appears it is ~ 325'x 700' and they've said the max with the fixed dam would be only 10M Gal.  The pond can easily be dredged to at least double that, possibly 25M gal which would yield ~138 AcreFt of snow.  The angle of repose of wet clay is a 1:4 slope.  Everything else has a steeper angle of repose.  The average refill rate in northeast for snowmaking ponds is 1.2x or about 300 AcreFt of snow from a 25M gal pond.  That's enough for  more or less a 3 ft base on almost all the imaginable snowmaking terrain (excluding Magician, Slide of Hans, Black Line, Red Line, and Green Line, and unnecessary connectors).


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## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2016)

What is the water source they draw from to fill it?  Do they pump from a local river at high flow like Okemo does out of the Black River to fill their ponds or is it mountain runoff only that fills it?


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## Sorcerer (Jan 9, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> magic needs natural snow, and badly, every year.  (duh!)
> 
> the aging snowmaking pipes need patching due to corrosion and the snowguns are relatively inefficient compared to what's on the market these days.  but i think the real hinderance to s-m performance is the amount of available water in the pond, and the time it needs to regen when emptied.  pls, somebody tell me i'm wrong.
> 
> with good temps it seems like you can get top-to-bottom or tubing, but not both.



*You are wrong.* The pond hasn't been an issue for awhile. If they really started making snow continuously for a period of time that could be true. As I understand it, they either have or had a permit to pump water from a pump located in the stream that runs alongside route 11 that comes from Lowell Lake if they need it.They haven't used it for a number of years. It still comes down to having money available to do what is needed. One really, really big problem that the mountain has is that aside from the people who really know the mountain and ski it when the snow is great (or are dedicated season holders) no on else even knows it exists (is open). There is next to no advertising. Locals form Manchester, long time skiers from Stratton and Bromley ...continually ask if Magic is open, do they make snow, do they groom and of course are the lifts running - these are the locals, not the potential skiers from New England, New York and New Jersey. Magic has more snow making potential (given some money)  than most people realize. They do have a number of broken pipes but , I believe Do Work or some others can better comment on that better than I can. They can cover a good number of trails (Magic Carpet, Wand, Upper Trick, Lower Trick, Medium, Showoff, Hocus Pocus, Wizard, Talisman, Vertigo(I think), and maybe some others. That is a good selection of beginner, Intermediate and advanced trails (In my opinion more interesting and varied that you can find at Stratton or Bromley).

Too many people making comments here don't know what they are talking about. Some of that, of course, is because the mountain isn't being clear about what is happening. I think this, in big part, is because they often say what they want to do versus what they can really afford to do.


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## xwhaler (Jan 9, 2016)

A couple yrs ago they blew on wizard, talisman and even sorcerer on the west side.  In addition to the East Side.  I've seen them make snow before (when they want to)


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## UYSDYP (Jan 9, 2016)

"When they can afford to" fify


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## steamboat1 (Jan 9, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> *You are wrong.*
> 
> Too many people making comments here don't know what they are talking about.


Yeah I got that line at least 50 pages back. It appears I was right.

How's my buddy Do Work doing? Still cutting trees or is he welding snowmaking pipe that no one uses?

:grin:


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## UYSDYP (Jan 9, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Yeah I got that line at least 50 pages back. It appears I was right.
> 
> How's my buddy Do Work doing? Still cutting trees or is he welding snowmaking pipe that no one uses?
> 
> :grin:



Yup he organizes volunteer dayz. the bottom line is they don't have lifts that are inspected. But one day it will happen that we will ski the lines we trimmed this fall. I can't wait.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 9, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Yup he organizes volunteer dayz. the bottom line is they don't have lifts that are inspected.



Don't have snow either (man made or natural), sometimes that helps I've heard.


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## zoomzoom (Jan 9, 2016)

mr sorcerer

am not sure what i'm wrong about?  cliff notes from my post: 
-- magic needs natural snow
-- s-m pipes are corroded and need patching
-- s-m guns are less efficient than the latest in the market
-- i think the available water in the pond is a hinderance, pls tell me if i'm wrong 
-- seems like t2b or tubing, but not both

you didn't clearly rebut any points from my post, and your use of caps shows a lack of courtesy and professionalism.  magic's "lack of advertising" diversion was clever but the summary statement irrelevant.  your rebuttal failed, but you did hurt my feelings.  so you've got that going for you.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 9, 2016)

Yah! everything is buffed out,  one storm and its a go. Being optimistic here as I've blown $900 on this bullshit tom Barker situation. But seriously the woods are gonna be so great. Skied okemo today and really miss natural terrain. Sure blowing heaps of snow is great but its like paved highways. Not that much fun.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2016)

You done?

It's one thing to be critical and frank about the sad state of affairs at Magic.  Total comedy of errors. Everyone knows it.

But these comments you're making here aren't directed at the mountain's issue.  

You're trying to rile up and piss off the people like Do Work who volunteer and invest massive amounts of their time to make things happen at the mountain they love.  

My question for you steamboat is why?


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 9, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> You done?
> 
> It's one thing to be critical and frank about the sad state of affairs at Magic.  Total comedy of errors. Everyone knows it.
> 
> ...



Steamboat's panties are on a wee bit too tight.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 9, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> You done?
> 
> It's one thing to be critical and frank about the sad state of affairs at Magic.  Total comedy of errors. Everyone knows it.
> 
> ...



Why take the bait. It's just a stupid meaningless forum. Magic is fucked at the moment but that too will change. Go ski somewhere crowded and bulldozed and you'll remember whats important.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 9, 2016)

Rfid and bubbles did it for me. I hate technology and skiing(kinda). Old school and simple works.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Go ski somewhere crowded and bulldozed and you'll remember whats important.



I get that.  I call Wildcat home for very similar reasons you all call Magic home.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 9, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> You done?
> 
> It's one thing to be critical and frank about the sad state of affairs at Magic.  Total comedy of errors. Everyone knows it.
> 
> ...




Why is it everyone says the same things as me yet you single me out?

I haven't posted to this thread in months & it's gone downhill since then yet here I am posting twice & you've got something to say.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 9, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why is it evrryone says the same things as me yet you single me out?



We are upset at management. You are taking shots at Do Work. He and I may have had our disagreements, but we are both part of the Magic family and you are stirring the pot for your own amusement. If you want to make fun of the "Magicment" or Magicsales, have at it, but leave Do Work alone.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> We are upset at management. You are taking shots at Do Work. He and I may have had our disagreements, but we are both part of the Magic family and you are stirring the pot for your own amusement. If you want to make fun of the "Magicment" or Magicsales, have at it, but leave Do Work alone.



Exactly


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 9, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> We are upset at management. You are taking shots at Do Work. He and I may have had our disagreements, but we are both part of the Magic family and you are stirring the pot for your own amusement. If you want to make fun of the "Magicment" or Magicsales, have at it, but leave Do Work alone.



So true. How can you rip DW, dude had done so much for the place we all want to call home. We're all one powerball drawing away from saving the place we Iove.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 9, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> We are upset at management. You are taking shots at Do Work.



Oh like he never took shots at me. If I had posted the same things toward him as he's posted towards me I'd be banned. He signed onto this site just to attack me but that that's OK I guess. You guys need to pray for a sugar daddy because otherwise Magic is a fail.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 9, 2016)

I'll go back to sleep now. Let the shit show continue.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Oh like he never took shots at me. If I had posted the same things toward him as he's posted towards me I'd be banned. He signed onto this site just to attack me but that that's OK I guess. You guys need to pray for a sugar daddy because otherwise Magic is a fail.



Get over yourself. He didn't sign up because of you. He signed up here to share information about the direction of the mountain because he saw a lot of false rumors. Also, he organizes the work days and tried to gain support.

  And even if taking shots at you was the reason, its been months since he's done so. Your shots at him tonight were unprovoked.  You decided you wanted to come into this thread tonight and amuse yourself by trying to insult someone.  Your entire motive participating in this discussion is to try and piss people off 

Everyone knows it

Cut the crap.


----------



## MMP (Jan 10, 2016)

Lol. Say whatever you want to about do work. Nothing anyone here says means jack shit to him. That I guarantee. 

Laughable. He wouldn't dignify it. 

Believe me. 


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## Newpylong (Jan 10, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Don't have snow either (man made or natural), sometimes that helps I've heard.



Give it a rest. Not everyone chooses Killington.


----------



## Tin (Jan 10, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Oh like he never took shots at me. If I had posted the same things toward him as he's posted towards me I'd be banned. He signed onto this site just to attack me but that that's OK I guess.


----------



## MMP (Jan 10, 2016)

It would be awesome if everyone would stop quoting this kunt It ruins having him on ignore, and makes his day I'm sure. 



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## Do Work (Jan 10, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> You're trying to rile up and piss off the people like Do Work who volunteer and invest massive amounts of their time to make things happen at the mountain they love.
> 
> My question for you steamboat is why?





Bah, I think it's kind of funny now.  There will always be guys like Steamy who hate on that kind of thing.  Honestly though, when someone like him has a problem with me, I take it as a direct compliment.  If he just can't wait for something bad to happen so he can chirp me,  I must be doing something right!    If that sort of thing makes someone feel good about themselves I actually kind of feel bad for them after all when you think about it.  Poor guy probably needs a hug or a bowel movement or something.


Cheers to not giving a shit about miserable trolls though man...  Life is way too short to pay that any mind.  :beer:


----------



## Harvey (Jan 10, 2016)

Dw ftw.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 10, 2016)

After today, starting to look real good for this week weather-wise. Pattern change #thinksnow


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 10, 2016)

All we need is snow.  Even the xmas we had no lifts the skiing was awesome.  We just need snow. 

https://vimeo.com/56772889


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## gmcunni (Jan 11, 2016)

big day today

final lift inspection and restart snow making?


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## UYSDYP (Jan 11, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> All we need is snow.  Even the xmas we had no lifts the skiing was awesome.  We just need snow.
> 
> https://vimeo.com/56772889



Nice edits. I love the dogs, they were so stoked. Hurling themselves into the deep snow at speed.


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## xwhaler (Jan 11, 2016)

Snow Report now says opening Sunday 1/17----certainly looks good to blow this week so hopefully they can get it done.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 11, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> Snow Report now says opening Sunday 1/17----certainly looks good to blow this week so hopefully they can get it done.



 "our goal is to open the Red Chair by Saturday, Jan 16. If snowmaking goes incredibly well, it's possible we'll be ready Friday, or maybe even Thursday the 14th, which is our current goal -"
Snowmaking must not be going incredibly well then. Maybe it will snow Tuesday.


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## slatham (Jan 11, 2016)

I think the 17th on the snow report is an error, based on the FB posts and what I see on the front page of the web site. But it could turn out to be correct! Hope snowmaking goes well, the Tuesday storm outperforms, and the weekend storm stays cold (some models unfortunately staring to look warm). THINK SNOW.


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## xwhaler (Jan 11, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> "our goal is to open the Red Chair by Saturday, Jan 16. If snowmaking goes incredibly well, it's possible we'll be ready Friday, or maybe even Thursday the 14th, which is our current goal -"
> Snowmaking must not be going incredibly well then. Maybe it will snow Tuesday.



Correct...that was my point. The Alpine update page doesn't match the snow report page as far as dates go.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 11, 2016)

Any update on the lift inspection?  Hopefully everything went well.


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## rtjcbrown (Jan 11, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Any update on the lift inspection? .












Not good


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## gmcunni (Jan 11, 2016)

off Facebook:

Any updates? Did Red pass today?

*Sarr Sheffer* Hey Brendan and Bill, 
Still waiting on the official update, but I'm hearing that it's looking good so far. I do know that we still need to do a "lift evac" with the ski patrol tomorrow, before the Red Chair will pass. They were making progress on the the Black Chair, but they're saying that could still be two weeks out.


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## ss20 (Jan 11, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> off Facebook:
> 
> Any updates? Did Red pass today?
> 
> ...



So Red has a *chance* at opening.  See Black in 2017!!!


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 11, 2016)

How do you get a weekend ski patrol to do a lift evac on a Tuesday? I don't know how many patrollers that takes but I assume somehow the rabbit will be pulled out of the hat.

As to Black, I understand the clock is ticking on entering a tougher testing protocol if the lift is inactive for two years? So when did it last run? Who can spell out more detail? I remember it running for the Black Magic Challenge two years ago. 

It will be cold all week now. Snowmaking reports appreciated.


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## Tin (Jan 11, 2016)

ss20 said:


> So Red has a *chance* at opening.  See Black in 2017!!!


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## drjeff (Jan 11, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> How do you get a weekend ski patrol to do a lift evac on a Tuesday? I don't know how many patrollers that takes but I assume somehow the rabbit will be pulled out of the hat.
> 
> As to Black, I understand the clock is ticking on entering a tougher testing protocol if the lift is inactive for two years? So when did it last run? Who can spell out more detail? I remember it running for the Black Magic Challenge two years ago.
> 
> It will be cold all week now. Snowmaking reports appreciated.



I know I rode the Black in March of '14 when one of my kids had a race at Magic


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## VTKilarney (Jan 11, 2016)

An official post was put up on Facebook:

The lift inspector checked off most of the open items on the Red Chair and the Tube Park Lift today. It's looking great so far. We still need to do a "Lift Evac" with the ski patrol tomorrow before the Red Chair will pass. 
Mountain Ops was making progress on the the Black Chair, but they're saying that could still be two weeks out.
Our target date remains this Saturday with a little help from Mother Nature combined with our snowmakers pumping away as much as possible.




.


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## mriceyman (Jan 11, 2016)

With continuous snowmaking temps likely thru the week they have to get open saturday. 


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 11, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> With continuous snowmaking temps likely thru the week they have to get open saturday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



You know who you are dealing with right? 


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## thetrailboss (Jan 11, 2016)

ss20 said:


> So Red has a *chance* at opening.  See Black in 2017!!!









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## zoomzoom (Jan 11, 2016)

i believe the 2 year rule is for abandoned lifts.  from the 2011.1 B77.1 standard:

4.1.1.11.1 Acceptance inspection

Before an aerial lift that is new or relocated or that has
not been operated for routine maintenance within the
previous 2 years is opened to the public, it shall be given
a thorough inspection by qualified personnel to verify
compliance with the plans and specifications of the
designer.

4.1.1.11.2 Acceptance tests
Before an aerial lift that is new or relocated or that has
not been operated for routine maintenance within the
previous 2 years is opened to the public, it shall be given
thorough tests by qualified personnel to verify
compliance with the plans and specifications of the
designer. The designer or manufacturer shall propose
and submit an acceptance test procedure.
Test load per carrier shall be 110% of the design live
load. Thorough load and operating tests shall be
performed under full loading and any partial loadings that
may provide the most adverse operating conditions. The
functioning of all push-button stops, automatic stops,
limit switches, deropement switches, and
communications shall be checked. Acceleration and
deceleration rates shall be satisfactory under all loadings
(see 4.1.2.4). Motive power and all braking and rollback
devices (see 4.1.2.6) shall be proved adequate under
the most adverse loadings.


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## ss20 (Jan 11, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> With continuous snowmaking temps likely thru the week they have to get open saturday.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 11, 2016)

So I occasionally follow this thread, but it always seems like the Black is always "just two weeks" away from opening, no?


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## mriceyman (Jan 11, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> You know who you are dealing with right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone






Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Jan 11, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> i believe the 2 year rule is for abandoned lifts.  from the 2011.1 B77.1 standard:
> 
> 4.1.1.11.1 Acceptance inspection
> 
> ...



So, for the Black, which is a Pohlig/Yan, who would now be the "designer or manufacturer" since both are long gone?


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## zoomzoom (Jan 11, 2016)

it is my understanding that the black lift has run for routine maintenance in the last 2 years, so the rule doesn't apply.


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## drjeff (Jan 12, 2016)

My kids race scheduled for Magic this coming Sunday has been postponed until Mid February - I'm hoping its a sign that they WILL be open this weekend, just only with Show Off as the route to the base so they can't use it for racing vs. not being open at all!!


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 12, 2016)

Only one route down so can't run a race is the reason Magic Alpine Club moved the race. 


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 12, 2016)

^^^ no revenue lost there


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## 69skier (Jan 12, 2016)

Frankly black chair is the last thing on my mind. Let's get one lift inspected at this point!  Are they blowing snow at the top of the mountain at all? Honestly , if he fucks this up I am calling credit card company to stop payments. Even if I don't see any money back at least I am not feeling like a complete fool once again with getting screwed over with my "donations" to this mountain.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 12, 2016)

Any report of snowmaking?


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Any report of snowmaking?



There's a fan gun running at the top of Showoff. I hope they are making snow at the top.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 12, 2016)

Good news indeed.  I'm surprised that they haven't announced the resumption of snowmaking on their Facebook page.  I REALLY hope that they open for the weekend.  I have a lot of sympathy for their passholders.


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## mbedle (Jan 12, 2016)

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2016/...-to-desperate-measures-to-keep-slopes-covered

At least we are not in the Alps this year. Not sure OSHA would approve of this method. Hard to believe it is real.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 12, 2016)

Halfway thru January, You really have to feel for the passholders. I would guess most will be voting with their wallets, and moving on for next year if there isn't a complete management change there. I know I would be, no matter how the rest of this season plays out.


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## Magic (Jan 12, 2016)

Can someone verify if there is snowmaking at the top? If not- how can they open????


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## Newpylong (Jan 12, 2016)

drjeff said:


> My kids race scheduled for Magic this coming Sunday has been postponed until Mid February - I'm hoping its a sign that they WILL be open this weekend, just only with Show Off as the route to the base so they can't use it for racing vs. not being open at all!!



Also can't set gates in 6" of snow, which is all there is likely to be to start.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 12, 2016)

Although nothing during the day yesterday, snow-making has been going up top since last night. Forecast say 4-6" of Snow today - tonight then more this weekend...bout time!


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Good news indeed.  I'm surprised that they haven't announced the resumption of snowmaking on their Facebook page.  I REALLY hope that they open for the weekend.  I have a lot of sympathy for their passholders.



I heard that the guy who was doing the updates is gone?


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## gmcunni (Jan 12, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I heard that the guy who was doing the updates is gone?





someone is still working... they are still deleting comments and banning people.


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## magicsales (Jan 12, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I heard that the guy who was doing the updates is gone?



True. As of this morning I am no longer part of the team at Magic. Moving forward I'll be happy to answer questions about what has been happening at the mountain, PM me. I truly hope for the passholders and Magic faithful that new ownership comes before it is too late to reverse what TB is doing.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 12, 2016)

magicsales said:


> True. As of this morning I am no longer part of the team at Magic. Moving forward I'll be happy to answer questions about what has been happening at the mountain, PM me. I truly hope for the passholders and Magic faithful that new ownership comes before it is too late to reverse what TB is doing.


Dang.  Sorry to hear about that.  I know that you were in a tough spot.  Hopefully you will land squarely on your feet.  I have a feeling that in the long run you will be glad that you moved on.


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 12, 2016)

magicsales said:


> True. As of this morning I am no longer part of the team at Magic. Moving forward I'll be happy to answer questions about what has been happening at the mountain, PM me. I truly hope for the passholders and Magic faithful that new ownership comes before it is too late to reverse what TB is doing.



Can't say we didn't see that coming. Is there anything you can tell us that we don't already know?

All kidding aside, I think if you had come in with a different approach this would have worked out much better. I believe I warned you in an email about the strength of this community and how tightly you were going to be watched and criticized. That being said, from what I've heard and experienced, TB is damn near impossible to deal with and you were dealt a really shitty hand with him as your boss.  I know it probably is somewhat of a kick in the teeth and somewhat a relief to be free of Magic.  My advice (and please heed it this time): take a week to collect your thoughts, make sure you have all of your ducks in a row if you are going to file for unemployment (not sure the terms of your separation), and don't plan on using TB as a reference for a future job.


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## zoomzoom (Jan 12, 2016)

progress!

from alpine update --- last friday 1/8
Lift inspections were performed Thursday morning. They gave us a punch list to perform before they do the final check Monday - all simple stuff - all done today (including resetting the counterweights on the Red Chair lifts.)
The Red Chair, the Handle Tow (Novice Lift) and the Tube Park Lift should be ready to pass with flying colors on Monday. We will post results after the inspection.

from facebook today --- 1/11 
The lift inspector checked off most of the open items on the Red Chair and the Tube Park Lift today. It's looking great so far. We still need to do a "Lift Evac" with the ski patrol tomorrow before the Red chair will pass.

can't wait to ski there!


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

magicsales said:


> True. As of this morning I am no longer part of the team at Magic. Moving forward I'll be happy to answer questions about what has been happening at the mountain, PM me. I truly hope for the passholders and Magic faithful that new ownership comes before it is too late to reverse what TB is doing.



Sorry to hear that you left. I know that you were working under extreme circumstances and tried to answer the comments on this forum as best you could. Good luck


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## slatham (Jan 12, 2016)

Sorry to hear Magicsales. And I'm not sure I want the inside story - it'll just depress me.

On snowmaking, they may not be able to make snow during the day on Friday or Saturday - and if they can it will not be ideal conditions. So why did they not pound the mountain yesterday when it was in the teens all day? From the data I see, it was cold enough up top to start around midnight, and they wait what, 15-18 hours to start? That is mind blowing given what has transpired and with a holiday weekend coming up.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

slatham said:


> Sorry to hear Magicsales. And I'm not sure I want the inside story - it'll just depress me.
> 
> On snowmaking, they may not be able to make snow during the day on Friday or Saturday - and if they can it will not be ideal conditions. So why did they not pound the mountain yesterday when it was in the teens all day? From the data I see, it was cold enough up top to start around midnight, and they wait what, 15-18 hours to start? That is mind blowing given what has transpired and with a holiday weekend coming up.



It's hard to understand if someone (TB?) is actually making decisions on the mountain or everything just happens by circumstance.


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## SIKSKIER (Jan 12, 2016)

Saw this on my FB feed.

Magic Mountain Ski Area
Base area grooming and snow on the way.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 12, 2016)

Is the yellow cat still not working?


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Is the yellow cat still not working?



Still  sitting there waiting....


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## slatham (Jan 12, 2016)

So should I be the optimist and see the 12/30/15 time stamp on the picture and believe work has been done since this was taken?

Or the realist that the camera's date is messed up and this was today?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 12, 2016)

That's correct. Magic has not entered 2016 yet.


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

slatham said:


> So should I be the optimist and see the 12/30/15 time stamp on the picture and believe work has been done since this was taken?
> 
> Or the realist that the camera's date is messed up and this was today?



The picture was taken 12/30/15 and, unfortunately  is the same today.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 12, 2016)

How much snow over there Sorce?


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> How much snow over there Sorce?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Unfortunately, only about an inch but it's still flurrying.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 12, 2016)

Thanks S. Thought there'd be more.

What's word on Red? Thought we'd be able to check at least one box by now...


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 12, 2016)

magicsales said:


> True. As of this morning I am no longer part of the team at Magic. Moving forward I'll be happy to answer questions about what has been happening at the mountain, PM me. I truly hope for the passholders and Magic faithful that new ownership comes before it is too late to reverse what TB is doing.



Smart move!


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## Sorcerer (Jan 12, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Thanks S. Thought there'd be more.
> 
> What's word on Red? Thought we'd be able to check at least one box by now...
> 
> ...



I heard that the lift evac went went well, but there was something minor, like somebody not signing something (lots of somethings) like an electrical form, that has to be done (signed).


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 12, 2016)

You have to be kidding me. This is insane. You have to admire their commitment to incompetence. You truly have to work at failing this much.


----------



## The Sneak (Jan 12, 2016)

Any of you guys know the story of Maico motorcycles? From the most popular mx bike on the planet in 1981 to bankrupt 2 years later - a stunning combination of incompetence, bad luck, knee jerk reactions, and possibly industrial sabotage.

They never recovered. I am reminded of the Maico saga every time I check up on this thread. 


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## VTKilarney (Jan 12, 2016)

You mean it's a bad idea to not have your main lift inspected by January 12th?  Give them a break. Deleting Facebook comments has taken up a lot of their time.


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## 69skier (Jan 12, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> You mean it's a bad idea to not have your main lift inspected by January 12th?  Give them a break. Deleting Facebook comments has taken up a lot of their time.



I don't think TB even knows how to use FB. Guaranteed it's his sidekick Brunhilda...


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## JDMRoma (Jan 12, 2016)

The Sneak said:


> Any of you guys know the story of Maico motorcycles? From the most popular mx bike on the planet in 1981 to bankrupt 2 years later - a stunning combination of incompetence, bad luck, knee jerk reactions, and possibly industrial sabotage.
> 
> They never recovered. I am reminded of the Maico saga every time I check up on this thread.
> 
> ...



I owned a few Maicos in the day, a street legal 250 and a 400 that was insane. 
They were part of the big 3 ! Penton ,KTM and Maico..... The ricers couldn't compare. !

Sorry off topic !!


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## danimals (Jan 12, 2016)

What would have happened if we had a record breaking season starting early November?


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## mriceyman (Jan 12, 2016)

danimals said:


> What would have happened if we had a record breaking season starting early November?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



They probably would have gotten red running and certified but weeks later. Kind of like wait until its needed to get it done


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## Tin (Jan 12, 2016)

From FB:
The Red Chair passed the Lift Evac part of the inspection today with the Ski Patrol. The Black Chair is currently being worked on, but may be up to two more weeks before it's ready; Mountain Ops priority continues to be to produce SNOW and to ready the Black Chair for inspection.
Snow has begun to fall, our groomers were out today and our goal to open the Red Chair by Saturday, Jan 16 looks golden: 
Ski trails first, Tube Park as soon as possible after, probably by next weekend. The word for open trails this weekend is "Trick to Showoff" - (Upper Magic to Trick to Wand to Showoff.)

The team at Magic moves forward providing a fun, safe place to ski, snowboard, tube and to learn. We're doing everything possible to prepare for and provide that "Magical" experience as soon as the depth of snow will safely allow.


Looks as though mother nature will be helping them out as well. No head of ski patrol = no ropes?


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 12, 2016)

Nice wording with Red passing lift evac. Almost makes it seem like it was certified today.

Guess tubing lift was not as no tube park for a holiday weekend.

At least more snow is coming...




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## Treepopper (Jan 13, 2016)

These people are ridiculous......once again someone had to ask if redchair was inspected or not for a straight answer due to smoke and mirror language......and whos writing this stuff? A " magical" experience......they already used that crappy line in last post......it still doesn't work!
Am guessing Sarr the IT guy or sidekick brunhilda "gilding the lily" these days.....also why the late posts? Hoping no one will see them that late? Or does it take all day for a creative writing assigment to get done?
Lets see if they post right away when red Finally gets done.....6 pack says its within minutes......whole thing is sad......this management needs to be done........hope they know that.....


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## VTKilarney (Jan 13, 2016)

I like how they said, "The word for open trails this weekend is "Trick to Showoff" - (Upper Magic to Trick to Wand to Showoff.)"

As if there was some sort of choice as to which trails they would open?


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## VTKilarney (Jan 13, 2016)

It gets even worse.  Look at what they finally admitted about the Red Chair:

"There is one more piece, which requires an electrician to be present. He was not available yesterday morning. We expect him today... Or tomorrow. He WILL be here before Saturday."

They seriously don't know what day he will arrive?  If I were management, that electrician would have had his ass up on the mountain already, or I would have found another electrician that could have gotten the work done.

But look at the bright side.  They have smores.


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## Treepopper (Jan 13, 2016)

Obviously written by someone who knows nothing anout the mtn and its trails........none of these people
In management have skied/ boarded this mtn. And they sure don't know their customers/ passholders......
Pure idiocy.......


----------



## slatham (Jan 13, 2016)

Reports also says "Groomers" as in plural as in more than one. I guess they count the yellow cat because its providing moral support as it sits in the yard?


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 13, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I like how they said, "The word for open trails this weekend is "Trick to Showoff" - (Upper Magic to Trick to Wand to Showoff.)"
> 
> As if there was some sort of choice as to which trails they would open?



That's 4 open trails to ski


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## Magic (Jan 13, 2016)

They need to recruit Vince to write the facebook posts. He has a brain and knows marketing...


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 13, 2016)

What the hell is "Upper Magic"? Guess the entire upper mountain will be open!!!


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## Magic (Jan 13, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> It gets even worse.  Look at what they finally admitted about the Red Chair:
> 
> "There is one more piece, which requires an electrician to be present. He was not available yesterday morning. We expect him today... Or tomorrow. He WILL be here before Saturday."
> 
> ...



Are those smores on pitchforks???


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 13, 2016)

the electrician is needed for tach loss and overspeed tests, performed annually during lift inspections.  these tests, and all requirements are clearly listed on the vt passenger tramway site.  there are no surprises or "gotcha" moments during an inspection. the electrician is ballz out this time of year, gotta wait for a space in his schedule.


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 13, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> the electrician is needed for tach loss and overspeed tests, performed annually during lift inspections.  these tests, and all requirements are clearly listed on the vt passenger tramway site.  there are no surprises or "gotcha" moments during an inspection. the electrician is ballz out this time of year, gotta wait for a space in his schedule.



How about scheduling him in advance if they knew it needed to be done. 


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## NYDB (Jan 13, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> How about scheduling him in advance if they knew it needed to be done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



They were too focused on 'snowmaking' to schedule the electrician.   Laser like focus.


----------



## BlueTrails (Jan 13, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> How about scheduling him in advance if they knew it needed to be done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I agree.  I've worked with 'lift electricians' and you have to get one that works on lifts as opposed to does commercial kitchens...and they are super busy now...  Most of the lift specialists like engineers and mechanics are over booked this time of year.  All the more reason to have your lift complete on Nov 1.  But I'm sure the guy will come.  He knows Magic is desperate to open.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 13, 2016)

magicsales said:


> True. As of this morning I am no longer part of the team at Magic. Moving forward I'll be happy to answer questions about what has been happening at the mountain, PM me. I truly hope for the passholders and Magic faithful that new ownership comes before it is too late to reverse what TB is doing.



There's a lot of speculation here. Could you please tell us what's really going on?


----------



## Magic (Jan 13, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> There's a lot of speculation here. Could you please tell us what's really going on?



Nothing posted today about inspection, snowmaking, etc. but they posted wine glasses for sale? REALLY???


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 13, 2016)

Unbelievable. It's like Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns.  


.


----------



## WWF-VT (Jan 13, 2016)

Magic said:


> Nothing posted today about inspection, snowmaking, etc. but they posted wine glasses for sale? REALLY???



Soon to be a collector's item  - get them while you can.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Unbelievable. It's like Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns.
> 
> 
> .



Nail on the head!


----------



## slatham (Jan 13, 2016)

Wow, you couldn't make some of this stuff up if you tried. I just went on the Magic web site and watched the pictures scroll through on the front page. One of them is shot of snowmaking. But like a lot of things at Magic, it was upside down!


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 13, 2016)

Saying red will open.. Those are some nice glasses tho


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## VTKilarney (Jan 13, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> Saying red will open.. Those are some nice glasses tho
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



They didn't specifically say that the chair passed inspection. Hopefully it did.


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 13, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> They didn't specifically say that the chair passed inspection. Hopefully it did.



As we know saying and doing are worlds apart


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 13, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> They didn't specifically say that the chair passed inspection. Hopefully it did.



What does it really matter? Is anyone actually going to go ski Magic this weekend? They will have one trail open other mountains escaped this a month ago. Us pass holders will ride red, if it opens. I might buy my mother in law a ticket because she will be watching baby MSB. I can't imagine day tix sales will exceed 2. Good news is that if they really did get the 5 inches that Stratton reported Timber Ridge will be prime. If Red doesn't pass at least I won't have to deal with Patrol and will be able ride with furry MSB. 


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 14, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> There's a lot of speculation here. Could you please tell us what's really going on?



You didn't get the memo.?  He doesn't work there anymore.  Can you blame him?


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 14, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> What does it really matter? Is anyone actually going to go ski Magic this weekend? They will have one trail open other mountains escaped this a month ago. Us pass holders will ride red, if it opens. I might buy my mother in law a ticket because she will be watching baby MSB. I can't imagine day tix sales will exceed 2.


Good point.  It means that MLK weekend is a bust as far as revenues are concerned.  But at least you can get smores and wine glasses in the bar.


----------



## Brewbeer (Jan 14, 2016)

It really is sad to see what has to be the best (terrain and vibe) mountain in southern VT going down the crapper.  It's plainly obvious that the folks calling the shots have their priorities wrong.  Really hope the people in charge get control of this slow motion train wreck and either get a new management team on-board or sell out to an organization that will.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 14, 2016)

FYI, the band kicks ass Saturday night.  Don't shoot the messenger like the wine glasses.  This is our friends daughters band & they're all very talented.  Lots of good music & it will be packed.  They were great last year.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 14, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> It really is sad to see what has to be the best (terrain and vibe) mountain in southern VT going down the crapper.  It's plainly obvious that the folks calling the shots have their priorities wrong.  Really hope the people in charge get control of this slow motion train wreck and either get a new management team on-board or sell out to an organization that will.



You don't think these guys are competent?




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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 14, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> FYI, the band kicks ass Saturday night.  Don't shoot the messenger like the wine glasses.  This is our friends daughters band & they're all very talented.  Lots of good music & it will be packed.  They were great last year.



I will be there. No amount of incompetent management can keep me away. 


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## Magic (Jan 14, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> I will be there. No amount of incompetent management can keep me away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



This is why Magic will always survive!!!


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 14, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> You don't think these guys are competent?
> View attachment 18554
> 
> 
> ...



on my PC the pic is right, on my phone inverted.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 14, 2016)

Magic said:


> This is why Magic will always survive!!!



we just don't know where else to go?  Last weekend.  Never put these up here. 4 pole baby carry spread.


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## Smellytele (Jan 14, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> we just don't know where else to go?  Last weekend.  Never put these up here. 4 pole baby carry spread.



Skiing looked great too bad you have had a season pass and still need to walk up.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 14, 2016)

yeah but it was nice not to have to carry the extra weight around from my pass.


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 14, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> yeah but it was nice not to have to carry the extra weight around from my pass.



BabHAHA


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## SIKSKIER (Jan 14, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> yeah but it was nice not to have to carry the extra weight around from my pass.



Funny.OK,did you find out where you lost the baby?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 14, 2016)

The baby, not mine "fell" out into moms hands.  She was snowshoeing.  We really needed a doll for the pic.


----------



## mbedle (Jan 14, 2016)

lol


----------



## drjeff (Jan 14, 2016)

Pic of active snowmaking in progress on Trick and Wand just went up on their FB page


----------



## WoodCore (Jan 14, 2016)




----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 14, 2016)

So is the Red Chair inspected or not?


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 14, 2016)

Look what they just posted to Facebook.  Those whales aren't exactly huge.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

Maybe the whales aren't huge but the yellow cat is pushing them. Things are happening!


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

And then there is this.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 14, 2016)

I'm not quite sure what that means.  Does it mean that the VT Tram Board says that the inspection isn't done yet?  It's rather vague.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

Question was is red good to go? These are the replies.


----------



## Tin (Jan 14, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Question was is red good to go? These are the replies.


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 14, 2016)

gazing into my crystal ball

friday - they announce that the final step in inspection didn't occur. everything was done but the electrician who had to sign off called in sick.  since it is a holiday weekend and OT rates for electricians are high the will wait until Tuesday to get him back out.


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## farlep99 (Jan 14, 2016)

I've been asking them since yesterday morning via email & FB what lift tickets will be & crickets so far...  They know they're only going to have 1 way down with Trick>SO (if that), so why not name the price so people can plan?  One would think you'd have that sorted out so people that want to give you money can.  One would think...


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 14, 2016)

This is really weird.  If the Red Chair was inspected, wouldn't they say so unequivocally?  It seems like they are playing games.  If they aren't playing games, they are horrible communicators.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jan 14, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> gazing into my crystal ball
> 
> friday - they announce that the final step in inspection didn't occur. everything was done but the electrician who had to sign off called in sick.  since it is a holiday weekend and OT rates for electricians are high the will wait until Tuesday to get him back out.



Pay the OT rate for an electrician vs getting a chair open for one of the biggest ski weekends of the year. 
Hmmm, seems like it would be money well spent to me.


----------



## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> I've been asking them since yesterday morning via email & FB what lift tickets will be & crickets so far...  They know they're only going to have 1 way down with Trick>SO (if that), so why not name the price so people can plan?  One would think you'd have that sorted out so people that want to give you money can.  One would think...



If they answered questions or posted prices it would take the mystery out of the place. Then how would it be magical.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 14, 2016)

from_the_NEK said:


> Pay the OT rate for an electrician vs getting a chair open for one of the biggest ski weekends of the year.
> Hmmm, seems like it would be money well spent to me.


I'm not sure that, for day tickets, this is going to be a big ski weekend for Magic.  By making so little snow they have effectively squandered MLK weekend.


----------



## xwhaler (Jan 14, 2016)

At least if the mtn is open though ppl are much more likely to come and spend $ on drinks and S'mores like I'm sure they want.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

Sadly, opening this weekend is more to appease pass holders. How many people really want to ski 1 t2b trail? I hope it's warm enough for the trail to not be pure white ice. Can't wait to ski some fluffy ungroomed snow.


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## farlep99 (Jan 14, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I'm not sure that, for day tickets, this is going to be a big ski weekend for Magic.  By making so little snow they have effectively squandered MLK weekend.



True, but I know of at least a handful of people (myself & wife included) that will be buying day tickets, assuming they're fairly priced.  I'd just like to know so i can figure out if I'm skiing there or not.  I don't see why they can't announce a price when they know which trail will be open (assuming lift passes).


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 14, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Sadly, opening this weekend is more to appease pass holders. How many people really want to ski 1 t2b trail? I hope it's warm enough for the trail to not be pure white ice. Can't wait to ski some fluffy ungroomed snow.



There is a somewhat sizable group of former passholders who would like to support the mountain & ski with friends on opening day.  So I agree the ticket window won't be booming, but I'd like to spend some money there.  They're not making it easy.  I know how much a fucking wine glass costs there, how about a lift ticket??


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## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

I feel your pain, I have a drive to get there. I also like to plan my weekend. It would be great if they could announce that red is spinning or not. But I understand it's much to ask of a business.


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## farlep99 (Jan 14, 2016)

I should correct myself, I have no idea how much the fucking wine glasses cost.  I only know they have them.  And s'mores.  I'm so glad for that.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 14, 2016)

It's not all bad. If they aren't open for skiing at least one can visit talisman traders while killing time waiting for the executive chef to show up and have some exquisite cuisine at the blt. Maybe top the night off on the shed deck. It's all part of the new magical experience. I'm really hoping they haven't sold out of the floral magic shirts.


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## Brewbeer (Jan 14, 2016)

They need to change their name from "Magic Mountain" to "Mystery Mountain".

Prediction:  if they are open, tickets will be full price.


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## farlep99 (Jan 14, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> They need to change their name from "Magic Mountain" to "Mystery Mountain".
> 
> Prediction:  if they are open, tickets will be full price.



That's my fear with their lack of response on the price question.  And that's a way to GUARANTEE people don't buy lift tickets.  There are other options in the area with way more terrain open


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## Treepopper (Jan 14, 2016)

The last time they were trying to open w trick to showoff......was that just last saturday? Have lost track......anyway
Someone asked about tix prices and TB said to look at the page on the website.......meaning regular saturday price!
So not sure if he will do a tix for less, this would be the smart logical thing to do.......but neither of these attributes have been used so far this season!


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## slatham (Jan 14, 2016)

Tom should realize that any revenue lost on discounted tickets will be made up in spades at BLT because people won't ski 1 trail all day without a beer or two. Call it a loss leader. Full price would be a joke.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 14, 2016)

Will be up there on Saturday to use my "White Out" pass (i.e. gift certificate). Was hoping to ski a little with my daughter Sunday so no rope tow sucks


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 14, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> This is really weird.  If the Red Chair was inspected, wouldn't they say so unequivocally?  It seems like they are playing games.  If they aren't playing games, they are horrible communicators.



Both apply here to everything Magic "management" does.  Did you expect anything less? Why do you think both their new ski patrol director and their new sales and marketing director left? Because he's an idiot!


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## mriceyman (Jan 14, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> Both apply here to everything Magic "management" does.  Did you expect anything less? Why do you think both their new ski patrol director and their new sales and marketing director left? Because they're idiots!



Maybe the next ski patrol director wont clip passes for having the bar up and Without any warning. 


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## Hado226 (Jan 14, 2016)

Assuming there will be any patrol... I was a regular volly the past 3 years, knew Lynch was looking for full time pros while he was director, don't know if he found any, but haven't heard if the mountain still wants prior year volunteers... no insurance, no patrol, sounds like a nice place to take the family.

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## mriceyman (Jan 14, 2016)

Hado226 said:


> Assuming there will be any patrol... I was a regular volly the past 3 years, knew Lynch was looking for full time pros while he was director, don't know if he found any, but haven't heard if the mountain still wants prior year volunteers... no insurance, no patrol, sounds like a nice place to take the family.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



They have to hAve insurance right?? or are u saying for employees no insurance


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## gmcunni (Jan 14, 2016)

Hado226 said:


> Assuming there will be any patrol... I was a regular volly the past 3 years, knew Lynch was looking for full time pros while he was director, don't know if he found any, but haven't heard if the mountain still wants prior year volunteers... no insurance, no patrol, sounds like a nice place to take the family.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



can they legally operate without patrol?


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## Hado226 (Jan 14, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> can they legally operate without patrol?


TB was and might still be a NSP member... course he's on skis even less than Kap was.

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## BlueTrails (Jan 14, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> can they legally operate without patrol?



Under VT law, you must have a patroller to run the lift.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 14, 2016)

Without ski patrol I will be poaching trails all weekend. Rock skis required!


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## BlueTrails (Jan 14, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> They have to hAve insurance right?? or are u saying for employees no insurance



there is no requirement for insurance, excepting worker's comp.  Magic has not had any general liability insurance for many years.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 14, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> there is no requirement for insurance, excepting worker's comp.  Magic has not had any general liability insurance for many years.



And that is a major fail.  Would you work there?  Foolishness.


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## Sorcerer (Jan 14, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> can they legally operate without patrol?



This is getting a little out of hand.  As I understand it, the head of the ski  ski patrol from last year, as much as people seem to dislike him, has resumed his responsibilities.


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 14, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> This is getting a little out of hand.  As I understand it, the head of the ski  ski patrol from last year, as much as people seem to dislike him, has resumed his responsibilities.



Awesome. I can't wait to see Kappy and give him a big hug...


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## WoodCore (Jan 14, 2016)

The whole situation reminds me of a music festival I attended this fall........"Shuck and Jive!"  http://www.shuckandjivefest.com/


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## Tin (Jan 14, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> This is getting a little out of hand.  As I understand it, the head of the ski  ski patrol from last year, as much as people seem to dislike him, has resumed his responsibilities.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 14, 2016)

Tin said:


>



What are you stupid?


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## zoomzoom (Jan 14, 2016)

from the national B77 standard, under which lifts in vt are constructed, maintained and operated: 

4.3.2.1.4 First aid
One or more persons trained to provide first aid/emergency care at the Basic Life Support (BLS) level, including CPR, shall be available at all times when an aerial lift is operating and transporting passengers.  There shall be ready access to first-aid/emergency care supplies and equipment, including provisions for transporting an injured person to an enclosed and, if required, heated shelter.


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## mriceyman (Jan 14, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> there is no requirement for insurance, excepting worker's comp.  Magic has not had any general liability insurance for many years.



What were to happen say someone got hit by a snowmobile or something of that nature and they were to get sued? They have no insurance for that? Seems impossible 


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 14, 2016)

I do, Many many times. As much as I can stand each day. Until I ski puke.



UYSDYP said:


> Sadly, opening this weekend is more to appease pass holders. How many people really want to ski 1 t2b trail? I hop it's warm enough for the trail to not be pure white ice. Can't wait to ski some fluffy ungroomed snow.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 14, 2016)

Did that once with my NSP dad at a Michigan resort. They had no patrol during the week. We were travelling around on a vacation and dad and 13 year old son had to treat and evacuate a compund fracture of the femur!


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## mtl1076 (Jan 14, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> from the national B77 standard, under which lifts in vt are constructed, maintained and operated:
> 
> 4.3.2.1.4 First aid
> One or more persons trained to provide first aid/emergency care at the Basic Life Support (BLS) level, including CPR, shall be available at all times when an aerial lift is operating and transporting passengers.  There shall be ready access to first-aid/emergency care supplies and equipment, including provisions for transporting an injured person to an enclosed and, if required, heated shelter.



I would just like to note that nowhere does it say that the "first aid" person needs to be NSP. 


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## steamboat1 (Jan 14, 2016)




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## BlueTrails (Jan 15, 2016)

mtl1076 said:


> I would just like to note that nowhere does it say that the "first aid" person needs to be NSP.



Correct.  No requirement to be NSP.


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## podunk77 (Jan 15, 2016)

Magic has not had any general liability insurance for many years.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> I'm not suggesting anything, but if anyone here really wants to own to a ski operation, an accident with witnesses and a reasonable claim of negligence might do the trick.


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## marcski (Jan 15, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


>


Stopping it is fully within your control. Just don't open the thread.  But, you continually just push buttons for no reason.  You're like a 4 year old.


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

I highly doubt that the land owner would allow them to operate without general liability insurance. I'll also add that I like the FB comments posing behind a thin vail of "faithful and supporters" being ripped to shreds words later with wanted to know the price of tickets this weekend so they can make plans. In other words, we are faithful and supporters, as long as it doesn't cost a lot of money! Classic.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

Yah its a lot to ask, what are your prices and will you be open on Saturday. It sure is a lot to ask of a business. A quick call to the vt tram people will tell a much different story than what their posts in Facebook say. They have 1 day to pull a rabbit out of the hat. Hopefully they do. Maybe we will all get lucky and it will finally dump and we'll laugh at all the bitching and backseat driving. Or maybe they can't open and miss yet another opening day.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 15, 2016)

^^^ Hahaha.  Classic TB style - it's no big deal.


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## BlueTrails (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I highly doubt that the land owner would allow them to operate without general liability insurance. I'll also add that I like the FB comments posing behind a thin vail of "faithful and supporters" being ripped to shreds words later with wanted to know the price of tickets this weekend so they can make plans. In other words, we are faithful and supporters, as long as it doesn't cost a lot of money! Classic.



The operator is a land owner.  The premium for a ski area is not cheap given that a ski area is a place where people do nothing but 'slip and fall'.   The back of your ticket has a nice release which you 'sign' upon purchase.

And 'opening day' at Magic can be quite an adventure conditions wise.  The refund line usually starts forming around 10am.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

In all fairness the tram board acknowledges that they are working with TB. But as of yesterday red was not ready to go.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I'll also add that I like the FB comments posing behind a thin vail [sic] of "faithful and supporters" being ripped to shreds words later with wanted to know the price of tickets this weekend so they can make plans. In other words, we are faithful and supporters, as long as it doesn't cost a lot of money! Classic.


You actually blame someone for wanting to know how much it will cost to ski a single WROD on MLK weekend?  Faithfulness doesn't equal stupidity.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> In all fairness the tram board acknowledges that they are working with TB. But as of yesterday red was not ready to go.



Even if they get it certified today, this just shows how completely incompetent management has become.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

I don't mind the incompetence as much as I mind the lying they make it near impossible to make plans to visit their establishment


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## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> You actually blame someone for wanting to know how much it will cost to ski a single WROD on MLK weekend?  Faithfulness doesn't equal stupidity.



Agree- that's odd to criticize someone for wanting to know the price.  The most 'faithful' own passes.  There are others who would like to support the mountain, but is it reasonable to charge full price for 1 trail?  I'd argue no and I think most would agree


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

No - what I mean is if you truly want to support this business, you should, in fact, what to pay whatever price is necessary to keep this business open. If that price happens to be full boat, than you should be willing to pay that. Again to support this business.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> No - what I mean is if you truly want to support this business, you should, in fact, what to pay whatever price is necessary to keep this business open. If that price happens to be full boat, than you should be willing to pay that. Again to support this business.


That's absurd.  This isn't a charity.  I'll say it again - being a supporter does not mean being stupid.

Frankly, a business that is incapable of delivering a fair product at a fair price does not deserve support.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> No - what I mean is if you truly want to support this business, you should, in fact, what to pay whatever price is necessary to keep this business open. If that price happens to be full boat, than you should be willing to pay that. Again to support this business.



Blind leading the blind mentality ...


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

Market dictates value


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## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> No - what I mean is if you truly want to support this business, you should, in fact, what to pay whatever price is necessary to keep this business open. If that price happens to be full boat, than you should be willing to pay that. Again to support this business.



I guess I should pay about 1.5mil for a lift ticket then, because that's about the price necessary to keep the business open.

How about I pay a fair market rate for 1 trail (maybe something like $39, which even that is on the high side, but I'd pay it), and I spend a lot of $ in the bar throughout the day?  

I'll still support them if they charge full rate- I'll just ski at Bromley or Stratton & then drink at Magic afterwards.


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 15, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> I guess I should pay about 1.5mil for a lift ticket then, because that's about the price necessary to keep the business open.
> 
> How about I pay a fair market rate for 1 trail (maybe something like $39, which even that is on the high side, but I'd pay it), and I spend a lot of $ in the bar throughout the day?
> 
> I'll still support them if they charge full rate- I'll just ski at Bromley or Stratton & then drink at Magic afterwards.



How about $67 lift ticket that includes an open bar for the day.  That would sell.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

Your on to something PJ.


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## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> How about $67 lift ticket that includes an open bar for the day.  That would sell.



In!  You should do some marketing for Magic, PJ!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> How about $67 lift ticket that includes an open bar for the day.  That would sell.



...or at least one free shot for every time they failed to open this season, when they said they would!


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 15, 2016)

Question. Are the business and the land two separate entities?  I thought I had heard that.  I would think if someone wanted to buy the place and make a difference, they'd want control of both, so they could build real estate to help fund lift and snowmaking repairs.


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## doublediamond (Jan 15, 2016)

Premium is about $5 a skier visit, or least as of a few years ago it was.


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## doublediamond (Jan 15, 2016)

Minority owner of land is the owner of the operating company


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## deadheadskier (Jan 15, 2016)

And where does the majority land owner stand with things?


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## 69skier (Jan 15, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> And where does the majority land owner stand with things?



Do you have a few hours? It is very very complicated.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 15, 2016)

So would you say the majority land owner also shares some blame in the woes of the mountain?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 15, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> So would you say the majority land owner also shares some blame in the woes of the mountain?



NO.  Not one bit.

Edit to add.  I'll be skiing Magic tomorrow no matter what.  Fun will be had.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 15, 2016)

Fair enough.  Wonder why they hold onto an asset that likely won't appreciate anytime soon.


----------



## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> That's absurd.  This isn't a charity.  I'll say it again - being a supporter does not mean being stupid.
> 
> Frankly, a business that is incapable of delivering a fair product at a fair price does not deserve support.



I think that the faithful and the volunteers would disagree with you on that one. Pretty sure that the Volunteer Days would constitute some form of a charity. 

No matter what, I always like to throw out some posts that come from a business owner's perspective. What I have found in this thread, as well as numerous other threads, are posters overall disconnect between the "mountain" and what operates the "Ski Resort" I do not look at them as two separate entities, but most people on here do.  Its as if, because its a mountain there is a certain right to ski it and belief that patrons have a say in how it is operated as a resort. That is the nice thing about capitalism and freedom in this country, if you don't like it, take your dollars elsewhere.  Instead, what I see on here and FB is the typical beaten puppy syndrome. Keep getting hit with the newspaper and still comeback and lick the owners hand.


----------



## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Fair enough.  Wonder why they hold onto an asset that likely won't appreciate anytime soon.



I would guess because there is no market to sell it. The land is worth very little other than as a resort. However, you would think it would be in the best interests of the land owners to make the resort profitable. Once magic shuts its door, all revenue to the land owner is lost.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I would guess because there is no market to sell it. The land is worth very little other than as a resort. However, you would think it would be in the best interests of the land owners to make the resort profitable. Once magic shuts its door, all revenue to the land owner is lost.



You mean other than the group that tried to buy it this summer?


----------



## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> You mean other than the group that tried to buy it this summer?



Did it sell? I would venture to say that since it didn't sell, the potential buyer did not see a good market for the resort. Was the land actually for sale or just the operating company?


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> You mean other than the group that tried to buy it this summer?



Did they try and boy both land and business or just the business.

Seems to me if I'm the landowner, I'd hope the current lessee drops out and I sell the whole package.  Doesn't seem like it's a good scenario to remain as landlord is the gist of what I'm saying.


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I think that the faithful and the volunteers would disagree with you on that one. Pretty sure that the Volunteer Days would constitute some form of a charity.
> 
> No matter what, I always like to throw out some posts that come from a business owner's perspective. What I have found in this thread, as well as numerous other threads, are posters overall disconnect between the "mountain" and what operates the "Ski Resort" I do not look at them as two separate entities, but most people on here do.  Its as if, because its a mountain there is a certain right to ski it and belief that patrons have a say in how it is operated as a resort. That is the nice thing about capitalism and freedom in this country, if you don't like it, take your dollars elsewhere.  Instead, what I see on here and FB is the typical beaten puppy syndrome. Keep getting hit with the newspaper and still comeback and lick the owners hand.



No one that gives a shit about the mountain wants it to end up on NELSAP.  Anyone with 1/2 of an ounce of business sense (or common sense for that matter) can see that that's where this ship is headed under current mgmt.  I agree with you on the capitalism bit- I'd rather not take my dollars elsewhere.  But I certainly will if they charge too much.  And I've simply asked them privately and publicly how much they will be charging this weekend.  I've gotten no response, or even an acknowledgement of the question.  That's unprofessional in any business.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 15, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> No one that gives a shit about the mountain wants it to end up on NELSAP.  Anyone with 1/2 of an ounce of business sense (or common sense for that matter) can see that that's where this ship is headed under current mgmt.  I agree with you on the capitalism bit- I'd rather not take my dollars elsewhere.  But I certainly will if they charge too much.  And I've simply asked them privately and publicly how much they will be charging this weekend.  I've gotten no response, or even an acknowledgement of the question.  That's unprofessional in any business.



They responded to someone else on the location of Talisman Traders this morning....


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> They responded to someone else on the location of Talisman Traders this morning....



Yes, thank god they're responding to insanely sarcastic questions


----------



## prsboogie (Jan 15, 2016)

It was said the potential buyer was ready and one of the selling parties backed out saying the investment and upgrades would change the spirit and vibe of Magic so he backed out. That really sound like a rational person to me


----------



## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

Maybe I'm a little confused, but is Tom Barker running the show at Magic or Jim Sullivan?


----------



## drjeff (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> Maybe I'm a little confused, but is Tom Barker running the show at Magic or Jim Sullivan?



Jim Sullivan is now coaching at Mount Snow Academy


----------



## 69skier (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Jim Sullivan is now coaching at Mount Snow Academy



JS? LOL- he may be looking at a cement wall instead of a ski mountain very soon...


----------



## drjeff (Jan 15, 2016)

69skier said:


> JS? LOL- he may be looking at a cement wall instead of a ski mountain very soon...



Lol!

His brother Ben is the head coach at Mount Snow Academy. He and his daughter (who is one heck of a skier and races in the same age group as my daughter) are now associated with Mount Snow Academy


----------



## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> No one that gives a shit about the mountain wants it to end up on NELSAP.  Anyone with 1/2 of an ounce of business sense (or common sense for that matter) can see that that's where this ship is headed under current mgmt.  I agree with you on the capitalism bit- I'd rather not take my dollars elsewhere.  But I certainly will if they charge too much.  And I've simply asked them privately and publicly how much they will be charging this weekend.  I've gotten no response, or even an acknowledgement of the question.  That's unprofessional in any business.



So what is it about this mountain that you and others are so attracted to? I'm just having a hard time understanding why its so important to know what they are going to charge. Given what surrounding resorts are offering, you obviously are choosing to ski at Magic for something other than the skiing product. Maybe I am missing something and Trick and Showoff are the most amazing ski trails in southern Vermont. My guess is you want to ski there for open day at the home hill, friends and good food and beer, etc. How do you put a price on those reasons? At what number do you cut it off and go somewhere else? In my case, I was skiing at Stowe in early January and it didn't really matter what they charged or what they had open. Why? because I just wanted to be at Stowe to not only ski, but to reconnect with friends from last season, enjoy some good food and drinks. 

All that said, I don't want to see this place go under or any other resort for that matter. As far as not telling people yet what they plan on charging, I will agree that is not a good business move, since obviously there are people that care.


----------



## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Jim Sullivan is now coaching at Mount Snow Academy



If that is the case, than isn't this resort operated by the majority owner of the land?


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> So what is it about this mountain that you and others are so attracted to? I'm just having a hard time understanding why its so important to know what they are going to charge. Given what surrounding resorts are offering, you obviously are choosing to ski at Magic for something other than the skiing product. Maybe I am missing something and Trick and Showoff are the most amazing ski trails in southern Vermont. My guess is you want to ski there for open day at the home hill, friends and good food and beer, etc. How do you put a price on those reasons? At what number do you cut it off and go somewhere else? In my case, I was skiing at Stowe in early January and it didn't really matter what they charged or what they had open. Why? because I just wanted to be at Stowe to not only ski, but to reconnect with friends from last season, enjoy some good food and drinks.


You are seeing this as binary when it is not.  What's wrong with saying, "I really want to support the mountain, so I'm willing to pay money to ski there even though the skiing product will be much worse than other nearby mountains are offering.  All I ask in return is that they don't screw me over at the ticket window."

For reference, it is not the norm for a ski area to charge full price when they have only trail open.

In other words, it's like saying, "I'm willing to get screwed on terrain as long as they just act within reason on price."

I'm failing to see how such a person would not be considered a supporter of the mountain.  Supporters come in all flavors.


----------



## Wheeler (Jan 15, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> It was said the potential buyer was ready and one of the selling parties backed out saying the investment and upgrades would change the spirit and vibe of Magic so he backed out. That really sound like a rational person to me



The potential buyers were ready to invest in the mountain. The majority landowner and the minority landowner/operator together caused the deal to fall through - not because of their concern for the vibe but because they overvalue the mountain and because they have hubris.


----------



## ShadyGrove (Jan 15, 2016)

It's hard to admit your 'investment' is not paying off and being upside down can make it difficult to be willing to sell.  The minority owner wouldn't take the financial hit and backed out of the sale.  Of course that decision likely lead to no additional $$ being put into the mountain for this season, which may lead to a devaluation of the business which can create another downward spiral of the value....


----------



## Magic (Jan 15, 2016)

Is the mountain going to be open tomorrow or not? Still no notification that red is ready!!!!


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> In other words, it's like saying, "I'm willing to get screwed on terrain as long as they just act within reason on price."



Exactly this.  I'm willing to pay more than skiing Trick to Showoff is worth to most people.  But $67?  Come on.  Don't treat me like an asshole.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

How crazy is it that less than twenty-four hours before opening they have yet to state that the Red Chair has passed inspection.  And it's not like they are opening because of a freak October snowstorm.


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 15, 2016)

"In all fairness the tram board acknowledges that they are working with TB."

this is pure speculation (duh!) but am wondering if magic is promising to pay the fee due after they open?


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

We've gotten to the point when people want to get in their cars and drive to the mountains for the weekend... and still radio silence.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 15, 2016)

I just got off the phone with the VT Tramway board.  I was told that Magic's lifts (aka the Red Chair) have not been certified yet.  According to the lady that I spoke to, they had parts delivered today, they are hoping to get them in tonight, and open tomorrow (not sure where the inspection comes in, but maybe tomorrow morning?).  Mike Nellis (the inspector for our area) is happy to take phone calls and told her to give out his number (802-777-2242).  He may be able to give you more up to date or more specific information than that.  I plan to call him on my drive up, and will update if I speak to him.  If someone else speaks to him first and wants to update here, that would be appreciated.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

Epic fail.

I be they are really proud of the fact that they diverted work to other projects because of the warm weather.  (As if that story is believable in the first place.)

Let's hope that the parts were not shipped COD.


----------



## Brewbeer (Jan 15, 2016)

So sad.  Current management team needs to be shown to the door.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> So sad.  Current management team needs to be shown to the door.


I don't see how the mountain survives this summer.  The good news is that their management appears to be so poor that the mountain will change hands sooner than later - whether through bankruptcy or a sale.


----------



## farlep99 (Jan 15, 2016)

Pj can you ask the tramway guy what he thinks they might charge since they don't want to say publicly?  Cheers buddy


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

Dear Mr. Lift Inspector:

We were busy with other projects because the weather was warm, but we think that our chairlift is ready to pass inspection.  Please come soon.


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

Very surprised that the tramway guy was speaking to the public on that matter. Not sure that followed standard RTK laws.


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> I just got off the phone with the VT Tramway board.  I was told that Magic's lifts (aka the Red Chair) have not been certified yet.  According to the lady that I spoke to, they had parts delivered today, they are hoping to get them in tonight, and open tomorrow (not sure where the inspection comes in, but maybe tomorrow morning?).  Mike Nellis (the inspector for our area) is happy to take phone calls and told her to give out his number (802-777-2242).  He may be able to give you more up to date or more specific information than that.  I plan to call him on my drive up, and will update if I speak to him.  If someone else speaks to him first and wants to update here, that would be appreciated.



 I think the part has been installed. (I think it was something like a circuit breaker and doesn't need much testing). The chair has been moving so I guess it has been installed. Not sure what needs to be done to "certify" it.


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

Tramway works for the public. I assume it's public knowledge. She was very nice on the phone and even called with updates. I think they are very sympathetic with whats going on.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> Very surprised that the tramway guy was speaking to the public on that matter. Not sure that followed standard RTK laws.


RTK laws are designed force as much transparency as possible.  Whether or not a lift is certified, and what its failings were, are a matter of public record.  It's similar to how you can pull up restaurant inspections.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I think the part has been installed. (I think it was something like a circuit breaker and doesn't need much testing). The chair has been moving so I guess it has been installed. Not sure what needs to be done to "certify" it.



That's some much needed good news.


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

Yes they do and that is the reason why we have RTK laws. It's not any different than me calling up the township office and asking them to tell me everything my neighbor may have done. I'm also not sure that it is really their business to be saying anything other than the lift is not certified. Stating the they had parts delivered, hoping to get them in tonight and open tomorrow, is outside what would be considered public knowledge.


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> Yes they do and that is the reason why we have RTK laws. It's not any different than me calling up the township office and asking them to tell me everything my neighbor may have done.


It's quite different.  Unless your neighbor operates a chair lift for the paying public.  If that's the case, then it's not much different.


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> RTK laws are designed force as much transparency as possible.  Whether or not a lift is certified, and what its failings were, are a matter of public record.  It's similar to how you can pull up restaurant inspections.



RTK laws include specific actions that need to be taken to view public records. They require filing a request, allow the party the generated the information to review it, redact it if necessary and provide the material to the person whom requested it. Placing a phone call to a state agency and having them divulge communications between them and another party over the phone, does not comply with RTK laws. At least in PA, maybe VT is different.


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

FB comments on the inspection just got deleted... Someone is pissed off. LOL


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> RTK laws include specific actions that need to be taken to view public records. They require filing a request, allow the party the generated the information to review it, redact it if necessary and provide the material to the person whom requested it. Placing a phone call to a state agency and having them divulge communications between them and another party over the phone, does not comply with RTK laws. At least in PA, maybe VT is different.


I don't have the energy to answer in detail, but you are confusing a formal request for documents with a phone call. You don't need the entirety of the former's procedure for the latter.  


.


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 15, 2016)

Just got a phone call from the inspector who told me that red chair was good to go


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## UYSDYP (Jan 15, 2016)

Great news PJ thanks for posting.


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## mbedle (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Just got a phone call from the inspector who told me that red chair was good to go



Okay - so they were out at the site between the time that the lady someone spoke to said it wasn't certified till the time you just got off the phone with the inspector?  Or, did the lady on the phone misspeak? If I owned Magic, I'd be going after someone for spreading that rumor the day before opening day! I guess that explains why the comment was deleted off of FB.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 15, 2016)

It just got approved minutes ago so she was right at that time.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 15, 2016)

I thought I was a procrastinator


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## PearlJam09 (Jan 15, 2016)

mbedle said:


> Okay - so they were out at the site between the time that the lady someone spoke to said it wasn't certified till the time you just got off the phone with the inspector?  Or, did the lady on the phone misspeak? If I owned Magic, I'd be going after someone for spreading that rumor the day before opening day! I guess that explains why the comment was deleted off of FB.



I spoke to Mike Nellis at 5:10 and it was not approved yet. He called me back once it was.  The concept of linear time is amazing, huh?


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Just got a phone call from the inspector who told me that red chair was good to go



That's great news!!!!!


.


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## drjeff (Jan 15, 2016)

It's up on their FB page now that The Red received certification and will spin for the public tomorrow!


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## VTKilarney (Jan 15, 2016)

$67 for one trail. Ouch!  But at least they're open.  


.


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## drjeff (Jan 15, 2016)

And now the next brilliant move by the Magic admins.... It's a 3 day holiday weekend for many this weekend. You'd think that Magic would be open all 3 days. Nope per their FB page they will be closed on Monday!! The slow motion train wreck keeps on happening!!


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> And now the next brilliant move by the Magic admins.... It's a 3 day holiday weekend for many this weekend. You'd think that Magic would be open all 3 days. Nope per their FB page they will be closed on Monday!! The slow motion train wreck keeps on happening!!



Now that's messed up. I might have a case to get some money back on my Whiteout Pass now. They explicitly said that it was good from the 16-18th. This is so bad...


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 15, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> $67 for one trail. Ouch!  But at least they're open.
> 
> 
> .



Bwaaahahaha


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> And now the next brilliant move by the Magic admins.... It's a 3 day holiday weekend for many this weekend. You'd think that Magic would be open all 3 days. Nope per their FB page they will be closed on Monday!! The slow motion train wreck keeps on happening!!



Exceptional ineptitude!


----------



## WWF-VT (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> And now the next brilliant move by the Magic admins.... It's a 3 day holiday weekend for many this weekend. You'd think that Magic would be open all 3 days. Nope per their FB page they will be closed on Monday!! The slow motion train wreck keeps on happening!!



Magic Mountain Ski Area Right now, we're upgrading that "no" to a "yes" if we can gather the Ski Patrol. 
We'll post as soon as that's official.

"Gather the ski patrol".....You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 15, 2016)

Yea I'm surprised my post didn't get taken down....this place is so screwed


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## jrmagic (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> And now the next brilliant move by the Magic admins.... It's a 3 day holiday weekend for many this weekend. You'd think that Magic would be open all 3 days. Nope per their FB page they will be closed on Monday!! The slow motion train wreck keeps on happening!!



They are backtracking a bit on FB and giving a qualified yes Open on Mon day as long g as they cabecome get NSP


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## Sorcerer (Jan 15, 2016)

MadMadWorld said:


> Yea I'm surprised my post didn't get taken down....this place is so screwed



You just don't understand logic


----------



## slatham (Jan 15, 2016)

As I have said before, you can't make this stuff up. Somebody in the ski area management business wrote up a business scenario of all the things that can wrong and all the bone headed moves you make, and it pales in comparison to the reality that we have been witnessing. What next? Not opening during Presidents week? Not opening for a 2' dump (there's too much snow will be the excuse). Maybe $67 IS the discounted rate and when they are fully open it will be $100! It boggles the mind......


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## thetrailboss (Jan 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> And now the next brilliant move by the Magic admins.... It's a 3 day holiday weekend for many this weekend. You'd think that Magic would be open all 3 days. Nope per their FB page they will be closed on Monday!! The slow motion train wreck keeps on happening!!



What kind of move is that?


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 15, 2016)

Now they are furiously backtracking as to Monday. My FB comment is not deleted yet "Pay for the patrollers if necessary. This is the worst mismanagement I have ever seen of ANYTHING except North Korea." Sort of mean spirited but I way beyond being polite. I could not imagine they would not have a plan for Monday.Until they said it! And each stutter step costs them money!


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 15, 2016)

^^^ can't have a paid patrol without a general liability policy.  All volunteers.  Don't blame them.  Only one fool to blame.  Epic failure.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 15, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> So sad.  Current management team needs to be shown to the door.



No, the fucktards need to be hung from the nearest tree!


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## yeggous (Jan 15, 2016)

We need to keep Magic around. Even in my darkest days they sure as a reminder that things could be worse. I can't believe I am going to say this, but bringing in Ary Quiros would be an upgrade for this place.


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## mriceyman (Jan 15, 2016)

yeggous said:


> We need to keep Magic around. Even in my darkest days they sure as a reminder that things could be worse. I can't believe I am going to say this, but bringing in Ary Quiros would be an upgrade for this place.



At least he knows how to find money to spend


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## Keelhauled (Jan 16, 2016)

Ary can buy all the financially distressed mountains. We'll have Q Burke, Q Magic, Q Saddleback...


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## steamboat1 (Jan 16, 2016)

MRG opened the single & Sunnyside Fri.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 16, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> MRG opened the single & Sunnyside Fri.



What's your point?

It's two hours north of Magic, higher elevation, they've had more natural snow this season

Not a single Magic skier cares........


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## mriceyman (Jan 16, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> MRG opened the single & Sunnyside Fri.



Totally different weather than SVT


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## gmcunni (Jan 16, 2016)

updated:



> *Magic Mountain Ski Area*  - We WILL be open on MLK Day.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 16, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> At least he knows how to find money to spend



Yep, the only problem is getting him to spend it on the right things.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 16, 2016)

They did a really good job with Trick and Show Off. Wall to wall with plenty of snow. There are 2-3 that are pretty darn close to being open if not ready now. If they made a little snow on Wand and Up Your Sleeve they would be good to go.

I will also say that they made me a happy paying customer again by upgrading my pass....not sure if it was by accident or intentionally though lol


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## prsboogie (Jan 16, 2016)

MadMadWorld said:


> They did a really good job with Trick and Show Off. Wall to wall with plenty of snow. There are 2-3 that are pretty darn close to being open if not ready now. If they made a little snow on Wand and Up Your Sleeve they would be good to go.
> 
> I will also say that they made me a happy paying customer again by upgrading my pass....not sure if it was by accident or intentionally though lol



I'm sure it was intentional. They know what has been going on here and TGR.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 16, 2016)

Wand was breaking out with a measles of large stones due to the work road put in for the cell tower. It's quite hard to get though so I will bring my older skis tomorrow. Very nice ski day today all around.


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## skithetrees (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm guessing the skiing was good since the lynch mob has subsided?


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## prsboogie (Jan 17, 2016)

Got this in my email update!


New Sales & Marketing Director
Magic Mountain Resorts LLC appointed a new Sales & Marketing director this week. In an effort to create a "Magical" customer experience, develop our brand, and to fine tune our marketing strategies, Sarr Sheffer has been promoted to the position of Director of Sales & Marketing. We look forward to making it even more fun for the customer and enriching the Magic Mountain experience. Sarr is available at sales@magicmtn.com or (802)824-5645 ext. 102.


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## rocks860 (Jan 17, 2016)

So that will last for maybe 3 weeks?


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## steamboat1 (Jan 17, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Got this in my email update!
> 
> 
> New Sales & Marketing Director
> Magic Mountain Resorts LLC appointed a new Sales & Marketing director this week. In an effort to create a "Magical" customer experience, develop our brand, and to fine tune our marketing strategies, Sarr Sheffer has been promoted to the position of Director of Sales & Marketing. We look forward to making it even more fun for the customer and enriching the Magic Mountain experience. Sarr is available at sales@magicmtn.com or (802)824-5645 ext. 102.




Betcha he doesn't post to AZ.


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## BlueTrails (Jan 17, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> So that will last for maybe 3 weeks?



I met the guy.  Very different from last guy.  Good guy, smart, mature.  If given some tools/resources, he will do well. Why don't you give him a day or two?


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## UYSDYP (Jan 17, 2016)

He was certainly nice to talk to while we were waiting for passes to get processed. But he laughed as he told us he knows nothing about skiing. Thats how the whole holiday weekend closed on monday snafu happened. Should work out well.  Hope the rest of the season is as successful as opening day. It was fun.


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## BlueTrails (Jan 17, 2016)

yep, he made a mistake.......and owned up pretty fast on FB with his name as well.  That's different don't you think?


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## UYSDYP (Jan 17, 2016)

Yes he is different and like I said he was nice to talk to.


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## skifasttakechances (Jan 17, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> If given some tools/resources, he will do well. Why don't you give him a day or two?



And here in lies the rub ...


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 17, 2016)

> But he laughed as he told us he knows nothing about skiing.



Hahaha! You just can't make this up...


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## VTKilarney (Jan 17, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> I met the guy.  Very different from last guy.  Good guy, smart, mature.  If given some tools/resources, he will do well. Why don't you give him a day or two?


Are you his mother?  :roll:


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 17, 2016)

You guys know skiing is happening now? Even Timber Ridge is in play...


And my in laws are skinning Magic for the first time...


I am not at all concerned about Magic's marketing director. 

Actually skiing Magic was too fun to stop and take pics. 


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## UYSDYP (Jan 17, 2016)

Jealous that you have in-laws that skin ski areas. Next season my kid will fit in AT gear, can't wait. How did the trail hold up today? Sure was fun yesterday.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 17, 2016)

UYSDYP said:


> Jealous that you have in-laws that skin ski areas. Next season my kid will fit in AT gear, can't wait. How did the trail hold up today? Sure was fun yesterday.



Actually, it was my in law's first skin lap. The skin lap just happened to be at Magic. Luckily they really liked it and want to get more into it.

Stoked to see your kid on the skin track next season! 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 18, 2016)

"Early season" at Magic was damn good today 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 18, 2016)

It was even better today. Trick was phenomenal top to bottom. Wand needs to be renamed Rocky Road as the construction road rocks (2X3 inches) are a disaster as they crop up. Wand needs a foot of snow over what is there now to be safe.

Really cold today with high winds so I only lasted 6 runs. Lodge had no heat at 56 degrees. Some staffers let go according to rumours.

Great skiing really. Considering.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 18, 2016)

Wand was a mess on Saturday. Can't imagine it got much better. Trick and Show Off were great though


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 19, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Lodge had no heat at 56 degrees



That really is going to make people REALLY want to go and buy those $67 tickets.    No furnace there or what? Heating oil is pretty cheap right now compared to what it has been.

Hey cheap lift and tubing tickets though.... oh, no tubing yet, right?!  :roll:

[h=1]Lift Ticket or Tubing at Magic Mountain Ski Resort (Up to 55% Off). Five Options Available.[/h]

https://www.groupon.com/deals/magic-mountain-ski-resort-7


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 19, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> *Lift Ticket or Tubing at Magic Mountain Ski Resort (Up to 55% Off). Five Options Available.*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.groupon.com/deals/magic-mountain-ski-resort-7



I have some of those and think I should use them as soon as I can before they fold and are useless.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 19, 2016)

Getting there.



















Photos by Bankman.


----------



## lotsarocks (Jan 19, 2016)

Looks like fun was had yesterday. Looks pretty nice considering.


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 19, 2016)

Lots of fun was had yesterday with the fresh layer that fell.


----------



## slatham (Jan 19, 2016)

Thanks for the shots Rusty. Looking really close to wide open. Just the need this coastal to come up and it'll be there.


----------



## The Sneak (Jan 19, 2016)

Is this what it was like at the end of Brodie, Temple or other places? 


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----------



## Smellytele (Jan 19, 2016)

The Sneak said:


> Is this what it was like at the end of Brodie, Temple or other places?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Some go quick some linger longer before they die. Some are reincarnated only to die again and again


----------



## rocojerry (Jan 19, 2016)

Magic pint-glass is being used more often, I think its calling me....   thanks for the pictures and words.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 19, 2016)

I don't recall either of them being anything like how Magic is constantly fubaring.  Brodie was bought out by Jiminy and immediately closed.  Jiminy said a lot of money needed to be put in, but the real reason was to remove competition and bring people to their mountain.  Temple was always a shoestring operation, but they had enough money.  They had HKDs (when few areas did), they made more snow (relative to their size compared to Magic), their lifts were painted (remember how hard it was to fund just the painting of the chairs on Red at Magic?), and they didn't have any flagless flag poles.

Magic is in it's own world of fuckups ... it's the one thing they're succeeding at.


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 19, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> I don't recall either of them being anything like how Magic is constantly fubaring.  Brodie was bought out by Jiminy and immediately closed.  Jiminy said a lot of money needed to be put in, but the real reason was to remove competition and bring people to their mountain.  Temple was always a shoestring operation, but they had enough money.  They had HKDs (when few areas did), they made more snow (relative to their size compared to Magic), their lifts were painted (remember how hard it was to fund just the painting of the chairs on Red at Magic?), and they didn't have any flagless flag poles.
> 
> Magic is in it's own world of fuckups ... it's the one thing they're succeeding at.



The closest thing to Magic is Tenney


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 19, 2016)

Referring to Black line pictures above.

So none of that was open terrain. Did you skin up or do I assume that I can duck any rope I want at Magic also? This is a really serious issue as you are promoting rule breaking.


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 19, 2016)

^^^ please!  Ski it if you can and take responsibility for yourself if you can't.  Or go back to okemo.  Leave magic to the professionals.
.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 19, 2016)

Chances my ass until you need a rescue. 

Oh, I can ski it. Fuck off asshole.

Ever dealt with a compound fracture of the femur? I did at age 13 with my father a patroller. And I have done all kinds of deep backcounrty.


----------



## skifasttakechances (Jan 19, 2016)

Whaaaa  ... initially I was wounded by your harsh words.  Beater


----------



## makimono (Jan 19, 2016)

What's your point JoeB-Z?

I know you know the answer to your facetious question...why are you throwing a wet blanket on RG's awesome stoke?


----------



## Harvey (Jan 19, 2016)

Sweet pics Rusty!  

Joe are you teasing or for real? Not here enough to know, sorry.

My in-laws eat potato skins, that is about it.


----------



## makimono (Jan 19, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> It was even better today. Trick was phenomenal top to bottom. Wand needs to be renamed Rocky Road as the construction road rocks (2X3 inches) are a disaster as they crop up. Wand needs a foot of snow over what is there now to be safe.
> 
> Really cold today with high winds so I only lasted 6 runs. Lodge had no heat at 56 degrees. Some staffers let go according to rumours.
> 
> Great skiing really. Considering.



I thought that might be a problem hiking up in the summer. You couldn't even walk on the "road" without turning an ankle. They probably should have laid hay or straw mats down over it to help lock the rocks down before it snowed. No idea if that would have worked or even be practical to do. Gonna be a bitch in the spring.


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 19, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> It was even better today. Trick was phenomenal top to bottom. Wand needs to be renamed Rocky Road as the construction road rocks (2X3 inches) are a disaster as they crop up. Wand needs a foot of snow over what is there now to be safe.



Are you talking about the open part of wand?? Monday was way better. I only saw a few rocks. I agree it would be great to have a foot of man made on that but doesn't need that to " be safe" at least IMO.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 20, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Referring to Black line pictures above.
> 
> So none of that was open terrain. Did you skin up or do I assume that I can duck any rope I want at Magic also? This is a really serious issue as you are promoting rule breaking.



NOT promoting anything.  



JoeB-Z said:


> Oh, I can ski it. Fuck off asshole



Take it easy man.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 20, 2016)

makimono said:


> I thought that might be a problem hiking up in the summer. You couldn't even walk on the "road" without turning an ankle. They probably should have laid hay or straw mats down over it to help lock the rocks down before it snowed. No idea if that would have worked or even be practical to do. Gonna be a bitch in the spring.



Got to be a little hard on the tiller teeth.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 20, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> I don't recall either of them being anything like how Magic is constantly fubaring.  Brodie was bought out by Jiminy and immediately closed.  Jiminy said a lot of money needed to be put in, but the real reason was to remove competition and bring people to their mountain.  Temple was always a shoestring operation, but they had enough money.  They had HKDs (when few areas did), they made more snow (relative to their size compared to Magic), their lifts were painted (remember how hard it was to fund just the painting of the chairs on Red at Magic?), and they didn't have any flagless flag poles.
> 
> Magic is in it's own world of fuckups ... it's the one thing they're succeeding at.



Off topic but not entirely accurate...

Jiminy made a serious run at Brodie, going as far as building a summit snowmaking reservoir, installing Pole cats to replace the old Hedcos and was going to install a HSQ if enough passes were sold. Well they werent sold and it closed after 3 seasons under their ownership as they cut their losses realizing the place was going to take more money to modernize than was owing in.

I am still bitter about the whole thing, specifically selling with a non compete clause. I will miss Brodie to the grave.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 20, 2016)

So, does anyone know,  have they been blowing any snow this week?  The temps were perfect for it.  

I'm hoping for a few more 'official' routes down by the weekend


----------



## Sorcerer (Jan 20, 2016)

NY DirtBag said:


> So, does anyone know,  have they been blowing any snow this week?  The temps were perfect for it.
> 
> I'm hoping for a few more 'official' routes down by the weekend




Hi Skiers and Boarders,   
Magic Mountain will be operating the red chair with four trails tomorrow and Friday, with tomorrow's promotional Throwback Thursday $25 lift pass back by popular demand.   

The  snowmakers have been busy MAKING SNOW 24 hours a day since Monday.  The ALAKAZAM TUBE PARK, the beginner lift and three additional trails  will be open on Saturday and Sunday.

On Saturday the Black Line Tavern will have live entertainment from 3pm til 11:30, with Jared Johnson's solo acoustic performance from 3-6, and the band SPECTRIS performing from 7:30 to 11:30

Hope to see you on the slopes.

Sarr Sheffer
Director of Marketing


----------



## NYDB (Jan 20, 2016)

^thanks, I just got that email after I posted.


----------



## 69skier (Jan 20, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> Hi Skiers and Boarders,
> Magic Mountain will be operating the red chair with four trails tomorrow and Friday, with tomorrow's promotional Throwback Thursday $25 lift pass back by popular demand.
> 
> The  snowmakers have been busy MAKING SNOW 24 hours a day since Monday.  The ALAKAZAM TUBE PARK, the beginner lift and three additional trails  will be open on Saturday and Sunday.
> ...



I wonder who's paying the bills on all that snowmaking. It sure ain't from paper ticket sales...


----------



## WoodCore (Jan 20, 2016)

69skier said:


> I wonder who's paying the bills on all that snowmaking. It sure ain't from paper ticket sales...



All oil/money allocated for heating the lodge was cut and transferred to fueling the compressor(s). The lodge will now be heated by flaming shot skis.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 21, 2016)

69skier said:


> I wonder who's paying the bills on all that snowmaking.




Lol @ "all that snowmaking" 


Thanks man, I needed a chuckle.  It's going to be a fun weekend, stoked to see everyone again and get adventurey.


----------



## SkiNotHotShot (Jan 21, 2016)

Been reading this awhile.  Management should change its name to "Magical Thinking."


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 21, 2016)

SkiNotHotShot said:


> Been reading this awhile.  Management should change its name to "Magical Thinking."



Genius! Put it on a bumper sticker. That's better than "Ski It If You Can"


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 21, 2016)

Too harsh I admit. On the other hand, if you show people skiing it, others think you skied it "legitimately". I have been yelled at with a threat of ripping my pass for going down a closed Sorcerer on 6" of dense snow. 

As to "safe", snagging a edge on the Wand reef is also a bit harsh but it is a truly awful man made hazard. The rocks were like a case of erupting measles this past weekend.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 22, 2016)

Next time i won't show. :dunce:

We deemed it safe & took it very easy.  Mellow terrain with a soft surface underneath was fine.  Not recommended til we get some new snow now.

Who's in for tomorrow?  Anyone?


----------



## Do Work (Jan 22, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Who's in for tomorrow?  Anyone?





Pshhh...  You KNOW it!


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 22, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Next time i won't show. :dunce:
> 
> We deemed it safe & took it very easy.  Mellow terrain with a soft surface underneath was fine.  Not recommended til we get some new snow now.
> 
> Who's in for tomorrow?  Anyone?



I'm there Sunday for sure. Hoping the restaurant is smart enough to cancel the music for tomorrow ahead of time in which case I will be up late tonight.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 22, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Next time i won't show. :dunce:
> 
> We deemed it safe & took it very easy.  Mellow terrain with a soft surface underneath was fine.  Not recommended til we get some new snow now.
> 
> Who's in for tomorrow?  Anyone?



Shredding southern Westchester's most intense golf courses this weekend. Might even venture into the urban backcountry. See you all next weekend. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## jrmagic (Jan 22, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Shredding southern Westchester's most intense golf courses this weekend. Might even venture into the urban backcountry. See you all next weekend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Sprain's 11th hole would make for a fun ride.


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 22, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Shredding southern Westchester's most intense golf courses this weekend. Might even venture into the urban backcountry. See you all next weekend.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Slaying the gnar huh? Sprain's 11th hole should be fun as would the last 130ish of 3.


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## rocks860 (Jan 23, 2016)

Drove by today on my way up to sugarbush. Certainly looks like they could use some serious snow but I'll be there at some point, gotta use these vouchers


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## gmcunni (Jan 23, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> Drove by today on my way up to sugarbush. Certainly looks like they could use some serious snow but I'll be there at some point, gotta use these vouchers



What route to sugarbush takes you by Magic?


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## rocks860 (Jan 23, 2016)

Took the scenic route up 30 to 100 then 100 all the way up


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## Do Work (Jan 25, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> Drove by today on my way up to sugarbush. Certainly looks like they could use some serious snow but I'll be there at some point, gotta use these vouchers



While I'll agree the rocks look scary, I am really enthused by teh quality of the base that is down now.  The entire mountain got skied this past weekend.  Every trail I saw was skied enough to be packed right down (not skied out- there's a difference!).  Unofficially of course, but the consistency and depth is there to keep you off the dirt and rocks already.  We just need something on top of it to be able to truly enjoy it.  It's very close though.  The general consensus seems to be 6" of creamy and every trail would have sufficient cover.  12" and the trees would be 100%.     


So while yes, it needs more snow to open more terrain it is actually closer than you would think.  Also, it's rare that ALL the rocks are covered, so don't let them peeking out keep you away if you're driving towards it on 11.    


Sunshine Corner will be open this coming weekend barring any shitnadoes, and that is always synonymous with high quality shenanigans.  I can't wait for the first Sunshine Corner beers of 2016!!


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## Tin (Jan 25, 2016)

Stoke!!!


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## jrmagic (Jan 25, 2016)

It was also good to see work continue on the black chair Saturday and Sunday. I think they are out there today as well but haven't been outside yet to verify.


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## Sorcerer (Jan 25, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> It was also good to see work continue on the black chair Saturday and Sunday. I think they are out there today as well but haven't been outside yet to verify.



The guy working on is is from Colorado (he services the east) and has been working on it for awhile. I think he is staying at the Upper Pass Lodge. He said he'd be finished in a week to 10 days (from 1/22/16).


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## slatham (Jan 25, 2016)

There may be some snow brewing for the weekend. Right now looking to be on the minor side but some models hint at more. We need more!


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## wtcobb (Jan 25, 2016)

I haven't heard of this snow you speak of. Nothing to see here, nothing to be jinxed. :wink:


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## yeggous (Jan 25, 2016)

slatham said:


> There may be some snow brewing for the weekend. Right now looking to be on the minor side but some models hint at more. We need more!



I remain optimistic for personal mental health reasons. We're staying at the Upper Pass Lodge this weekend. We're planning to ski Bromley and Mount Snow though. We got cheap Bromley tickets through our ski club, and free Mount Snow tickets with our Granite Pass.


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## Brad J (Jan 25, 2016)

yeggous said:


> free Mount Snow tickets with our Granite Pass.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


Not that I am interested in Mt snow but how did you get free tickets with Granite pass ???


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 25, 2016)

Yeah, I thought it was value card discounts, not available free tickets.


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## prsboogie (Jan 25, 2016)

The value card should come loaded with one free ticket at Mt Snow, just like Vert. Value card does


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 25, 2016)

Don't have a value card. I've got a granite pass.  Maybe I misread the pass holder benefits


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## prsboogie (Jan 25, 2016)

As I understand it, if you go to Mt Snow with your pass they will give you a value card (what ever they call it there).


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## yeggous (Jan 25, 2016)

I went to the Mt Snow booth at the ski expo and go one of their discount cards. I specifically asked and was told that is comes preloaded with a ticket. At the ski expo both the girl working the Mt Snow booth and management at Wildcat confirmed this. I called the Mt Snow season pass office yesterday afternoon to confirm that the card still had a free ticket.

As for the benefits page, earlier in the season the Crotched page clearly stated that pass holder get a free discount card. And the discounts card come with a free ticket. I connected the dots.

The Peak Resorts corporate policy page was posted after the Hunter acquisition. Before that time this policy was an open secret, but the acquisition inspired a lot of people from mid-atlantic and New York to inquire. I got my card at the expo before the acquisition was announced. I am not sure if they have changed the rules in the interim.

As DHS has stated, free is sufficient motivation to spend a day there. I wouldn't pay or use one of my Ski VT vouchers. Given that I am accustomed to skiing New Hampshire and northern Vermont, I anticipate being miserable and feeling like cattle. I am allergic to lift lines and slow lifts.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm thinking a warm spring day when bumps are good would be worth the trip


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## Newpylong (Jan 26, 2016)

Like most large areas on weekends stay off the main lifts there (ie with Express in the name) and it won't be bad. They have a sufficient secondary lift system with rarely a line on the North Face or Sunbrook.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 26, 2016)

yeggous said:


> being miserable and feeling like cattle. I am allergic to lift lines and slow lifts.



If Magic is decent, i'll let you know here.  We had a great time last weekend.  All to ourselves sadly.  I get it but seems silly to be staying right there & not give it a possibility.


----------



## yeggous (Jan 26, 2016)

I agree. We stayed there last year and skied Magic. It was great and there was lots of open terrain. We did end up ducking some ropes because ski patrol had beautiful trails roped off for no apparent reason. This year I just can't see skiing one or two trails at this time of year.


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## Do Work (Jan 26, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> If Magic is decent, i'll let you know here.  We had a great time last weekend.  All to ourselves sadly.  I get it but seems silly to be staying right there & not give it a possibility.





Yeah with no race planned and the Sunshine option opened, the grooming should stay ridiculously good all day.  If we get even an inch or two as Slatham was alluding to, things would be exponentially more fun too.  

That said, free is free!  :beer:


You should definitely come to the bar for a drink though, it's always good to put a face with the persona.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 26, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Yeah with no race planned and the Sunshine option opened, the grooming should stay ridiculously good all day.  If we get even an inch or two as Slatham was alluding to, things would be exponentially more fun too.
> 
> That said, free is free!  :beer:
> 
> ...



There's a U10 "duel" slalom on the calendar for Saturday which I thought was still happening.  That said, if they are able to get sunshine corner open and the "through the woods" route, the skiing will be greatly improved with two options the whole way down. Trick has great coverage, but can only handle so much traffic at once, and the less experienced folks will be grateful to not have to go down Trick with a bunch of 9 year old race kids. 

Looking forward to this weekend already!


----------



## drjeff (Jan 26, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> There's a U10 "duel" slalom on the calendar for Saturday which I thought was still happening.  That said, if they are able to get sunshine corner open and the "through the woods" route, the skiing will be greatly improved with two options the whole way down. Trick has great coverage, but can only handle so much traffic at once, and the less experienced folks will be grateful to not have to go down Trick with a bunch of 9 year old race kids.
> 
> Looking forward to this weekend already!



The So VT Council start list for the U10's this year has about 100 athletes (not all will be at every race) - The way historically Magic runs their dual races, all runs for the kids should be done by 12/12:30 - the majority of the kids and their spectator parents won't ski much, if at all, outside of their race runs.  Having been through many races at Magic before with my kids, once the initial "get all the kids/coaches/parents that are skiing" up the Red for their 1st run wave gets sorted out, the line for the Red for the rest of the day typically won't be more than a couple of chairs - might be a 5 to 10 minute wait at opening bell to get everyone up the hill though

Expect the lodge to be a bit crowded with all the kids, coaches and parents using it, at least until awards are done, which is typically by 2 at the latest


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## Do Work (Jan 26, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> There's a U10 "duel" slalom on the calendar for Saturday which I thought was still happening.  That said, if they are able to get sunshine corner open and the "through the woods" route, the skiing will be greatly improved with two options the whole way down. Trick has great coverage, but can only handle so much traffic at once, and the less experienced folks will be grateful to not have to go down Trick with a bunch of 9 year old race kids.
> 
> Looking forward to this weekend already!






Ah, you're right.  My bad.  Skimmed right over that.  I may end up going a day early and skiing Friday too if anybody is going to be up.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 26, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Ah, you're right.  My bad.  Skimmed right over that.  I may end up going a day early and skiing Friday too if anybody is going to be up.



Will probably be catching a few runs by Noon, so lets get together


----------



## manhattanskier (Jan 27, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> Took the scenic route up 30 to 100 then 100 all the way up



Good route, so many awesome mountains on the route!


----------



## 69skier (Jan 28, 2016)

So is there a confirmed race Saturday?


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## drjeff (Jan 28, 2016)

69skier said:


> So is there a confirmed race Saturday?



The race is on (at least on the Vermont Alpine Racing Association calendar as well as the weekly update I get for all age groups from the Mount Snow Alpine Competition Program) for SUNDAY


----------



## drjeff (Jan 28, 2016)

drjeff said:


> The race is on (at least on the Vermont Alpine Racing Association calendar as well as the weekly update I get for all age groups from the Mount Snow Alpine Competition Program) for SUNDAY




An update just came through for my kids race program, they had initially listed the Magic race as for Sunday but they just "corrected" it for SATURDAY


----------



## RustyGroomer (Jan 29, 2016)

Hoping to see someone for afternoon lapz today.  Way after noon but i'm thinking if all goes well I'll ski a few.  Pencil me in for 3 or so.


----------



## slatham (Jan 29, 2016)

I was hoping to get up there but my youngest woke us up this AM with a violent stomach flu! Between my kids health, activities and the f'ing weather, my ski season thus far has been decimated. I am hoping for the ultimate Feb/March(April?) pay back. Hope springs eternal.......


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jan 29, 2016)

Sorry to hear SL. Let's grab a couple RG


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Newpylong (Jan 29, 2016)

At the rate at which most places rapidly expanded I think you're going to see plenty of thin spots and trail closures all over following this week.


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## yeggous (Jan 29, 2016)

Who is going to be at the bar at Magic or Upper Pass Lodge tonight or tomorrow? We'll be heading up this evening.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 29, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Who is going to be at the bar at Magic or Upper Pass Lodge tonight or tomorrow? We'll be heading up this evening.



I will be up this weekend. Hoping to make it to the bar around 10


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 29, 2016)

i'm sure we'll meander over to the lodge @ some point later.  1st skiing.  See you guys in a few hours.

yeggous, ask a bartender to point Greg out.  They don't know me as Rusty.  Well maybe they do.


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## jrmagic (Jan 29, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Who is going to be at the bar at Magic or Upper Pass Lodge tonight or tomorrow? We'll be heading up this evening.



I'm not heading up until early morning but I will definitely be in the bar tomorrow afternoon/night.


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Jan 29, 2016)

Ski Till I Die guys are still planning on heading up next weekend. 

We expect the beer to flow like wine and the women to instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. 

Get ready to live.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 29, 2016)

Be better if you came today so could have them all to myself...


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## Ski Till I Die (Jan 29, 2016)

There is a 100% chance that the number of beers I drink will be double the number of runs I take.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Jan 30, 2016)

Snowboarding was fun today. Finally rode the lift more than a few times. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## yeggous (Jan 30, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Snowboarding was fun today. Finally rode the lift more than a few times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


We skied Bromley today. Standard machine groomed frozen granular conditions.

On the way back my wife made me stop at some artificially nice country store. Some women asked me if it was my truck outside. I was stunned when she proceeded to lecture me about how Vermont has a no idling law. Then a guy next to her joins in and says its for global warming reasons and trucks use as much fuel idling as driving. I was so stunned I couldn't think of anything witty to say. It was like a scene from that Netflix skit series Portlandia.

Back to topic though...

We're in the Upper Pass Lodge getting ready for dinner right now. We're planning to head over to the Black Line Tavern for drinks later.


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----------



## Smellytele (Jan 30, 2016)

why did you leave it idling?


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## yeggous (Jan 30, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> why did you leave it idling?



To warm it up. Remote starts are useful like that.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 30, 2016)

according to statute, you can idle your vehicle for 5 minutes (in any 60 minute time period), or as needed for safety equipment such as defrosters.  keep that in mind if turned in by some "vegetable lasagna" type.  
: )        

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/2014/Acts/ACT057.pdf

( see pages 30 - 37 )

if reported by the country store owner, ticketed by the constable if he happens to be around and you want to wait, adjudicated as being in volation, you may be fined $10.


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## jrmagic (Jan 30, 2016)

yeggous said:


> We're in the Upper Pass Lodge getting ready for dinner right now. We're planning to head over to the Black Line Tavern for drinks later.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


I'm in the lodge now with some people if you're around. Reddish long sleeve shirt.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Jan 30, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> I'm in the lodge now with some people if you're around. Reddish long sleeve shirt.



Wait, you're at the bar?  I think I just missed you. Oh wait, no I didn't. Wife made me leave before I made bad decisions.


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## jrmagic (Jan 30, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Wait, you're at the bar?  I think I just missed you. Oh wait, no I didn't. Wife made me leave before I made bad decisions.



Mehhh looked like a quiet crowd when you left. There are worse decisions lol


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 31, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Then a guy next to her joins in and says its for global warming reasons and trucks use as much fuel idling as driving.



Bahaha! Not MY 5.3! Probably idle a couple days on a tank of fuel, Driving maybe 6 hrs?

More know it alls...  :roll:


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 31, 2016)

Looks like I shouldn't go there I leave my Duramax idling a lot in winter lol.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 31, 2016)

One of my friends, who's 9yr old raced at Magic on Saturday, said that the snow surface was as good as he's been skiing on at the Hermitage Club, where he's a member (even though he and his wife ski 2 to 3 times more days at Mount Snow every season and their kid races for Mount Snow), so while it may have taken a while for the Magic Mtn Ops team to get it going this season, they've got a quality product out there now!!


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 31, 2016)

*skied last thursday - will be back many thursdays if conditions merit*

skied there last thurs, excellant!  

pre-season contortions aside, everything there was better than i had hoped for.  first, the grooming was as good as you can get anywhere with no lumpy/icy surprises - consistancy is the word.  ops were friendly, ski patrol on-site, load/unload ramps perfect, ticket seller nice, bathrooms/lodge spotless, un-torn seat pads, paint on the carriers still holding up.

spent the first few runs on wand/hocus-pocus, then spent the rest of the day alternating with trick/show-off.  there were only 4 other folks on the slopes (which was good and bad i suppose).

if next wed event doesn't kill it, i'll be there next thursday too.  think  

pics taken mid-day.


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 31, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> pre-season contortions aside, everything there was better than i had hoped for.  first, the grooming was as good as you can get anywhere with no lumpy/icy surprises - consistancy is the word.  ops were friendly, ski patrol on-site, load/unload ramps perfect, ticket seller nice, bathrooms/lodge spotless, un-torn seat pads, paint on the carriers still holding up.
> 
> spent the first few runs on wand/hocus-pocus, then spent the rest of the day alternating with trick/show-off.  there were only 4 other folks on the slopes (which was good and bad i suppose).



well because they are late to the game they haven't had to thaws and refreezes nor over grooming like others have had being open longer.


----------



## lotsarocks (Jan 31, 2016)

Fun was had for sure, grooming and snow was great.


----------



## chuckstah (Jan 31, 2016)

Don't forget this deal.  $15 Thursdays

https://www.groupon.com/deals/magic-mountain-ski-resort-4


----------



## lotsarocks (Jan 31, 2016)

Soft sticky snow is fun


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 31, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> Soft sticky snow is fun



Soft snow is always fun.
Was that picture taken on the little kicker you built with him on top of hocus pocus?


----------



## zoomzoom (Feb 1, 2016)

that groupon thing, only good for once a season?


----------



## Bene288 (Feb 1, 2016)

yeggous said:


> We skied Bromley today. Standard machine groomed frozen granular conditions.
> 
> On the way back my wife made me stop at some artificially nice country store. Some women asked me if it was my truck outside. I was stunned when she proceeded to lecture me about how Vermont has a no idling law. Then a guy next to her joins in and says its for global warming reasons and trucks use as much fuel idling as driving. I was so stunned I couldn't think of anything witty to say. It was like a scene from that Netflix skit series Portlandia.
> 
> ...



Funny since you bough a Silverado right ? One of the better 1/2 tons for emissions.. Not like you have an old diesel tuned out with 8" exhaust stacks.. Didn't know Vermont had an idle law.


----------



## lotsarocks (Feb 1, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> Soft snow is always fun.
> Was that picture taken on the little kicker you built with him on top of hocus pocus?



Yah that was on hocus, with the kicker the kids built on sunshine corner and the one at betwixt he was having a fun day.


----------



## Do Work (Feb 1, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> well because they are late to the game they haven't had to thaws and refreezes nor over grooming like others have had being open longer.




Lololol...  Anything to avoid giving Magic some credit, eh? 

Heh.  AZ is the best.  

Thanks for the laughs, man.  Refereeze cycles.  Ha!  I'm going to write that down so I can let ops know that none of that good work was their fault and they just got lucky.


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 1, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> skied there last thurs, excellant!
> 
> everything there was better than i had hoped for.  first, the grooming was as good as you can get anywhere with no lumpy/icy surprises - consistancy is the word.  ops were friendly, ski patrol on-site, load/unload ramps perfect, ticket seller nice, bathrooms/lodge spotless
> 
> pics taken mid-day.



Do Work, I think this was some love for ops, don't you?


----------



## Do Work (Feb 1, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Do Work, I think this was some love for ops, don't you?




Oh, absolutely!  As was the opinion that the grooming was better than they experienced the Hermitage.  I can't say as I've never been there but I have been many, many other places famous for their grooming and honestly my run at 8:37am Sunday was literally the best cord I've ever skied.  It stayed awesome all day too, since there weren't 8,000 people sideslipping it.

The difference is that the operators at Magic are the sole suppliers of said product.  There isn't a crew or a fleet, and when something needs another pass in his expert opinion, it gets it.  As many times as it takes to get it as good as it can possibly be.  Their name is on it when they're done and they know everyone knows them and appreciates their artistry- and it is artistry, believe me.  To get what I experienced this weekend out of the severe shortage of stuff to work with was nothing short of a masterpiece.  I could not believe the day I had Sunday.  I literally couldn't stop hammering laps at any point, and I wasn't alone.    

That's why I just laugh.  Some guys will never get it and I'm totally fine with that.  I do, however, reserve the right to point and laugh when I see something like that.  It's obviously not harmful, just funny to me how when something bad happens it's all Magic's fault but when something good happens it's because of some divine intervention or blind luck.  Believe it or not, Magic really does have some incredibly talented people working there.  I just wish people were more apt to give credit to Ops, as they succeed despite management's blunders and they deserve all the credit in the world for that IMO.  Slam management all you want, but the Ops guys are seriously my heroes.  Even fkn Donnie haha (don't tell him I said that)



BTW yeggous, it was great to meet you!


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 1, 2016)

Depending on the "cow pissing on a flat Rock" shit falling from the sky, I'm trying to plan a weekend the end of Feb vaca to use our family pack. I hope it works out. Glad it's coming around though!!


----------



## yeggous (Feb 1, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Oh, absolutely!  As was the opinion that the grooming was better than they experienced the Hermitage.  I can't say as I've never been there but I have been many, many other places famous for their grooming and honestly my run at 8:37am Sunday was literally the best cord I've ever skied.  It stayed awesome all day too, since there weren't 8,000 people sideslipping it.
> 
> The difference is that the operators at Magic are the sole suppliers of said product.  There isn't a crew or a fleet, and when something needs another pass in his expert opinion, it gets it.  As many times as it takes to get it as good as it can possibly be.  Their name is on it when they're done and they know everyone knows them and appreciates their artistry- and it is artistry, believe me.  To get what I experienced this weekend out of the severe shortage of stuff to work with was nothing short of a masterpiece.  I could not believe the day I had Sunday.  I literally couldn't stop hammering laps at any point, and I wasn't alone.
> 
> ...



You too! I just wish it was easier to motivate my wife to get back out on Saturday. She views our Vermont excursions as a chance to have a "romantic" weekend. I just want to ski and drink. We all have priorities.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 1, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Lololol...  Anything to avoid giving Magic some credit, eh?
> 
> Heh.  AZ is the best.
> 
> Thanks for the laughs, man.  Refereeze cycles.  Ha!  I'm going to write that down so I can let ops know that none of that good work was their fault and they just got lucky.



Yeah no such thing as thaw/refreeze. You are a douche if you believe that thaws and refreezing doesn't have any effect what so ever. Also when a trail gets groomed and then skied 30 days without new snow that it doesn't build an icier base. Yes I believe it was probably good snow and groomed well. I love skiing Magic but come on man get that hair out from across your ass.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 1, 2016)

yeggous said:


> She views our Vermont excursions as a chance to have a "romantic" weekend. I just want to ski and drink.



Gondola. Cover all 3 in one trip!


----------



## Do Work (Feb 1, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Yeah no such thing as thaw/refreeze. You are a douche if you believe that thaws and refreezing doesn't have any effect what so ever. Also when a trail gets groomed and then skied 30 days without new snow that it doesn't build an icier base. Yes I believe it was probably good snow and groomed well. I love skiing Magic but come on man get that hair out from across your ass.






Bahahaha hey, don't confuse my talking some shit to you with a lack of understanding about what goes into good snow.  I just wanted to harass you for being kind of a tool about it.  I'll buy you a beer to rub on it if I hurt your feelings, man.


----------



## ShadyGrove (Feb 1, 2016)

yeggous said:


> We skied Bromley today. Standard machine groomed frozen granular conditions.
> 
> On the way back my wife made me stop at some artificially nice country store. Some women asked me if it was my truck outside. I was stunned when she proceeded to lecture me about how Vermont has a no idling law. Then a guy next to her joins in and says its for global warming reasons and trucks use as much fuel idling as driving. I was so stunned I couldn't think of anything witty to say. It was like a scene from that Netflix skit series Portlandia.
> 
> ...



I'm guessing you were at the Hapgood Store in Peru.  

I suspect the gentleman was referring to all trucks idling over the course of a year or something.  He was probably not referring to you and your truck in particular.  In other words, of all the trucks (semis, etc) running during a year, they emit as much while idling as they do while driving.  I believe most long haulers idle their trucks longer than they are actually driving them. 

That being said, Saturday was a nice warm day.  It was even sunny for part of the time.  I don't think it dipped below 25 all day.  You really had to warm your truck up?  Sack up - you're a skier!  :flame:


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 1, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> That being said, Saturday was a nice warm day.  It was even sunny for part of the time.  I don't think it dipped below 25 all day.  You really had to warm your truck up?  Sack up - you're a skier!  :flame:



He did say he had the wife with him!  :grin:


----------



## yeggous (Feb 1, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> I'm guessing you were at the Hapgood Store in Peru.
> 
> I suspect the gentleman was referring to all trucks idling over the course of a year or something.  He was probably not referring to you and your truck in particular.  In other words, of all the trucks (semis, etc) running during a year, they emit as much while idling as they do while driving.  I believe most long haulers idle their trucks longer than they are actually driving them.
> 
> That being said, Saturday was a nice warm day.  It was even sunny for part of the time.  I don't think it dipped below 25 all day.  You really had to warm your truck up?  Sack up - you're a skier!  :flame:



Yes, that would be the commune we were at. Saturday afternoon did warm up nicely. I actually like a cooler climate, but the wife disagrees. Dual zone climate control FTW.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Feb 1, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Yes, that would be the commune we were at. Saturday afternoon did warm up nicely. I actually like a cooler climate, but the wife disagrees. Dual zone climate control FTW.



Dual climate control to me is leaving the wife at home when I go skiing


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 2, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Yes, that would be the commune we were at. Saturday afternoon did warm up nicely. I actually like a cooler climate, but the wife disagrees. Dual zone climate control FTW.



Has your wife met the Chopper?


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Feb 3, 2016)

MadMadWorld said:


> Dual climate control to me is leaving the wife at home when I go skiing



You are alive. 

You should dual climate control your way over to Magic this weekend. We'll be at the bar, overcharging for gear per usual.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

I'm really wondering when I'm gonna be able to use this 3 pack I bought. I'm likely out of commission for at least the next 2 weeks and this weather is miserable


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## Ski Till I Die (Feb 3, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> I'm really wondering when I'm gonna be able to use this 3 pack I bought. I'm likely out of commission for at least the next 2 weeks and this weather is miserable



Just come hang out, Saturday will be a blast. Bars always open. 

Word is RustyGroomer will be on the karaoke machine.


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## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

Haha I dunno if I could justify driving 2 hours to hang out at the bar but I will definitely be up there at some point (at least 3 times). Shoulder is all messed up so I need to see how that works out before I get out on the mountain again. Looks like some snow in the future though


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## jrmagic (Feb 3, 2016)

Ski Till I Die said:


> Word is RustyGroomer will be on the karaoke machine.



He's a karaoke animal.


----------



## Tin (Feb 3, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> I'm really wondering when I'm gonna be able to use this 3 pack I bought. I'm likely out of commission for at least the next 2 weeks and this weather is miserable




It will change! March has been amazing at Magic the past few years. Did they mention any AC sprain or labrum/cuff damage?


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

They said they think I did something to the labrum which caused it to pop out when I twist my arm but they want to wait a couple weeks to see if it heals on its own and not waste money on an mri now. So I have another appointment on the 18th to see how it feels.


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## Ski Till I Die (Feb 3, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> He's a karaoke animal.



Hahaha


----------



## Tin (Feb 3, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> They said they think I did something to the labrum which caused it to pop out when I twist my arm but they want to wait a couple weeks to see if it heals on its own and not waste money on an mri now. So I have another appointment on the 18th to see how it feels.



Hopefully it heals up for you. I'm three months out from my dislocation and sprain and I doubt I will ever be able to sleep on my left side again. Shoulders and knees suck!


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## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

Tin said:


> Hopefully it heals up for you. I'm three months out from my dislocation and sprain and I doubt I will ever be able to sleep on my left side again. Shoulders and knees suck!



Yeah I hope so. Sleeping has been rough. What exactly happened when you did it? When I fell it wasn't dislocated but I was moving my arm around when I was riding up on the lift and when I twisted my arm inwards when it was straight out in front of me it would pop out and then back in when I turned it back the other way.


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 3, 2016)

On your follow up beghim for a cortisone shot and get back out there . I have a glenolabrial tear and a 12mm bone spur in the AC joint on my right side. Couldn't reach across my body to grab the seatbelt and the shot helped a ton with pain. Didn't to shit for the should issues but I can sleep and pole push without much more than an ache. Not a permanent fix but I'm too young for should surgery when I can mostly function with pain controlled but injections. I'm about 7 months out and its just starting to ache again.


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## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

I saw the PA yesterday, he spent 5 minutes looking at my shoulder then we spent 20 talking about skiing and beer. Turns out he's from Montpelier


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## Tin (Feb 3, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> Yeah I hope so. Sleeping has been rough. What exactly happened when you did it? When I fell it wasn't dislocated but I was moving my arm around when I was riding up on the lift and when I twisted my arm inwards when it was straight out in front of me it would pop out and then back in when I turned it back the other way.



I tripped in hockey going for a lose puck and I landed with my arm under my chest. Some pretty brutal pain. Two shots of morphine and two oxys in the ER within an hour and I wouldn't let the doc touch me it was so bad. I feel your pain. Seems like one of those injuries where the worse it is the better in terms of long term prognosis. Would rather break my ankle or shoulder than sprain them.

For sleep a wedge/pillow behind my shoulder really helped, as did the recliner.


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## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

Tin said:


> I tripped in hockey going for a lose puck and I landed with my arm under my chest. Some pretty brutal pain. Two shots of morphine and two oxys in the ER within an hour and I wouldn't let the doc touch me it was so bad. I feel your pain. Seems like one of those injuries where the worse it is the better in terms of long term prognosis. Would rather break my ankle or shoulder than sprain them.
> 
> For sleep a wedge/pillow behind my shoulder really helped, as did the recliner.



Ah yeah I skied another run after I did it and another 2 days after that so it doesn't sound anywhere near as severe


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 3, 2016)

Tin said:


> Would rather break my ankle or shoulder than sprain them.



I was sidelined for 5 years with a still undiagnosed soft tissue problem. My buddy shattered his leg bone skiing in February and was competing in mountain bike racing that summer.


----------



## The Sneak (Feb 3, 2016)

AC joint injuries suck! I went shoulder first into the side of a surprise Pontiac Grand Prix while bicycling years ago and the resulting 
grade 2 AC separation hurt for a long time and took forever to heal. Even today there's a funny bump there.

Get well soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WoodCore (Feb 3, 2016)

Back to the topic at hand............. Any updates on the Black Chair. Not that it's needed for crowd control, but heard somewhere if it's not certified this year it might go the way of the dodo bird.


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## lotsarocks (Feb 3, 2016)

It was getting much love on Sat/sun. My guess is we will see it run and get certified this season. Stakes are too high for it to not happen this season.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 3, 2016)

ironhippy said:


> I was sidelined for 5 years with a still undiagnosed soft tissue problem. My buddy shattered his leg bone skiing in February and was competing in mountain bike racing that summer.



I broke my leg clean through at the shin (tibia and fibula) when I was in high school. Did it it April, was skiing again in December. Ah the good old days.


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## WoodCore (Feb 3, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> It was getting much love on Sat/sun. My guess is we will see it run and get certified this season. Stakes are too high for it to not happen this season.



Good to hear!


----------



## lotsarocks (Feb 3, 2016)

It would be so nice to see black turning this month with a  few  big heaping dumps of natural snow to reward them for all their hard work and efforts. It has to turn for the better at some point.


----------



## BlueTrails (Feb 3, 2016)

WoodCore said:


> Back to the topic at hand............. Any updates on the Black Chair. Not that it's needed for crowd control, but heard somewhere if it's not certified this year it might go the way of the dodo bird.



This year is the last chance for Black per the State.  If not certified this year, it is scrap....all of it.


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## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> It would be so nice to see black turning this month with a  few  big heaping dumps of natural snow to reward them for all their hard work and efforts. It has to turn for the better at some point.



It may turn and be inspected but not used


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## 69skier (Feb 4, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> It may turn and be inspected but not used




If there is any inclination of selling the mountain, black must be functioning....


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Feb 4, 2016)

69skier said:


> If there is any inclination of selling the mountain, black must be functioning....



How has no one suggested snowcat rides to the top?! 

Seriously... how fuc&ing awesome would that be... 

RustyGroomer?


----------



## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2016)

Ski Till I Die said:


> How has no one suggested snowcat rides to the top?!
> 
> Seriously... how fuc&ing awesome would that be...
> 
> RustyGroomer?



Checking in to say you're dumber than i thought.  See you Saturday!


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## skithetrees (Feb 4, 2016)

69skier said:


> If there is any inclination of selling the mountain, black must be functioning....



Disagree. First thing I would do is rip that out. Well no, first thing would be a beginner chair. Then rip that out and replace.


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Feb 4, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Checking in to say you're dumber than i thought.  See you Saturday!



You sure do know how to make a skier blush... get your drinking pants ready.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> Disagree. First thing I would do is rip that out. Well no, first thing would be a beginner chair. Then rip that out and replace.


----------



## rtjcbrown (Feb 4, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> Disagree. First thing I would do is rip that out. Well no, first thing would be a beginner chair. Then rip that out and replace.



Can you do both? (sort of) Take out Black, and use it to replace/complete Phoenix?


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## Abominable (Feb 4, 2016)

rtjcbrown said:


> Can you do both? (sort of) Take out Black, and use it to replace/complete Phoenix?



Yeah, this always confused me.  I love Magic, but don't have the history with the place that you guys do.  I've had some GREAT days there in the past couple years though.

To me, Black is so redundant and unnecessary (in terms of where it is and where it goes, I mean).  And the green line is so obvious for a lower half / beginner option.  Why did they remove green line and why / when did they put in black?

Sacrilege to say this, but if I was super rich and owned the place I'd put a lift with more uphill capacity for the main lift, and a green line, and I think that would service the whole mountain just fine, and I don't think it'd ever get too crowded or too skied.


----------



## Ski Till I Die (Feb 4, 2016)

Well... when it's 50 degrees in Feb it doesnt really matter.

Seriously though... who wouldnt pay extra to do this?!


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## rtjcbrown (Feb 4, 2016)

Abominable said:


> Yeah, this always confused me.  I love Magic, but don't have the history with the place that you guys do.  I've had some GREAT days there in the past couple years though.
> 
> To me, Black is so redundant and unnecessary (in terms of where it is and where it goes, I mean).  And the green line is so obvious for a lower half / beginner option.  Why did they remove green line and why / when did they put in black?
> 
> Sacrilege to say this, but if I was super rich and owned the place I'd put a lift with more uphill capacity for the main lift, and a green line, and I think that would service the whole mountain just fine, and I don't think it'd ever get too crowded or too skied.



Agreed. You could also get the Greenline/Phoenix covered with snow and open quicker and easier than what there is now.


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## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2016)

Ski Till I Die said:


> Well... when it's 50 degrees in Feb it doesnt really matter.
> 
> Seriously though... who wouldnt pay extra to do this?!



I would not


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## drjeff (Feb 4, 2016)

I have to think that you couldn't take the Black or Red out and move it over to where the Green was until you get a new/newer, far more likely to be reliable top to bottom lift.

Heck, one of the reasons why many want the Black up and operational again is because in the back of their minds, they realize that while the Red is running fine now, the reality is the Red isn't the most reliable lift, and if it has a mechanical issue, it could be down for a while, and that is the last thing Magic needs!!!


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## zoomzoom (Feb 4, 2016)

there is no way a Pohli/Yan lift built in 1962 would pass todays' B77 Standard if relocated, it is currently grandfathered.  just let it go.


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## Hado226 (Feb 4, 2016)

When Magic shutdown 20ish years ago, all the lifts worth relocating were sold.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## slatham (Feb 4, 2016)

Black's primary purpose is for back up should there be an issue with Red. Also, when the conditions are good over a holiday period (especially with Races) Black is needed to for capacity reasons. 

No way you can move Black. We'll be lucky to have it run where it stands.

Phoenix lift is an enigma. One key justification is to be able to open quicker due to less snowmaking required. But if the lift costs $200k to finish (this is an off the cuff number with no basis in reality - for demonstration purposes only) would't it make more sense to spend $200k on snowmaking improvements that would allow a quick top to bottom opening, add terrain quickly, recover from thaws, etc? I've personally thought finishing Phoenix was a good idea, but when I look at it vs. added snowmaking capacity, especially in a year like this one, I'm for snowmaking.

But I did't win powerball and neither of the above are options for current management so its moot. But a guy can dream.....


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## zoomzoom (Feb 4, 2016)

always thought placing a leased or used carpet mid-slope to serve beginner skiers/riders and tubers would make some sense.  it's tough to learn boarding on a cable tow, and the red unload is terrifying for new riders.  sell both cable tows.    

then remove the half-finished borvig (too expensive to refurb now) and install a tee-bar up the phoenix line.  use the existing line and return concrete, certainly massive enough.  inexpensive, no refurb of hydraulic tension, aux engine, motor/gearbox that's been sitting uncovered, how's that new cable?  with a tee bar, no rope evac concerns, cheaper elec drive, ctw tension.  no ndt costs, no grip relocation/slip testing, etc.  simple.  but would need to fab a log bridge or other inexpensive bridge over the stream, about 2/3 up slope.  go to northeast slopes and watch young boarders ride the tee bar, easy.  sell the phoenix for scrap.    

i wouldn't bother with the black at all.  getting pretty expensive, cut the losses and scrap it. not needed.


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## Keelhauled (Feb 4, 2016)

I can't imagine how Phoenix could be anything but good as dead...the machinery in the bottom terminal has been exposed to the elements for how long now?  And how much is in storage? I mean, if they don't have a haul rope, that's probably the better part of that 200k right there.  Needs sheaves too, plus chairs. Plus controls. I guess the towers would still be good, and maybe the top terminal. 

If I owned the place I'd scrap all the lifts and use the check as a down payment on a new fixed grip quad to the top.  If you can't get people up the mountain nothing else matters.  At the very least rebuild Red like MRG has done to the single and Sunnyside.


----------



## skithetrees (Feb 4, 2016)

Back in the day before the closure both black and red were absolutely necessary. To truly thrive, magic would return to those days. When I say beginner, I mean the old beginner area, not blue. Blue would be a waste of time and come way after a new black m, beginner chair, pipes, pond, lodge improvements, etc. now to really play arm chair warrior, I would run black to the bottom of witch. There is some great terrain over there, even for intermediates that is really under utilized. Then, lift from bottom of talisman to the topish of slide of Hans, but a couple hundred yards up wizard and on the true peak for experts to lap. Will it ever happen, no. But my powerball plan.


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## WoodCore (Feb 4, 2016)

Keelhauled said:


> If I owned the place I'd scrap all the lifts and use the check as a down payment on a new fixed grip quad to the top.



That check might get you a hamburger and a beer at the bar.


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## skithetrees (Feb 4, 2016)

WoodCore said:


> That check might get you a hamburger and a beer at the bar.



Couple thousand in scrap steel minus removal expenses - sounds about right.


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## yeggous (Feb 4, 2016)

After seeing the crowds everywhere else in southern Vermont, I do not understand how the mountain isn't profitable. Throw up a detachable lift and hotel and you can't miss.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## benski (Feb 4, 2016)

Keelhauled said:


> If I owned the place I'd scrap all the lifts and use the check as a down payment on a new fixed grip quad to the top.  If you can't get people up the mountain nothing else matters.  At the very least rebuild Red like MRG has done to the single and Sunnyside.



The single chair refurbishment was more expensive than replacing it with a new chair lift. The only reason they refurbished it was to keep the character.


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## Keelhauled (Feb 4, 2016)

benski said:


> The single chair refurbishment was more expensive than replacing it with a new chair lift. The only reason they refurbished it was to keep the character.



Yeah, well, I figure the character argument would be the primary one for keeping Red.  So kind of analogous.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 5, 2016)

It sounds like a lot of folks aren't aware that a viable offer to buy Magic was put forth in Autumn '15.  Unfortunately one of the owners got greedy and didn't think he was getting his fair share, so it fell apart.  This was a major setback for if/how Magic will move forward.  

You gotta have money to make money and the current ownership doesn't have enough to make even minor improvements.  The shoestring budget is just enough to keep operations open while loosing money every day.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Feb 5, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> It sounds like a lot of folks aren't aware that a viable offer to buy Magic was put forth in Autumn '15.  Unfortunately one of the owners got greedy and didn't think he was getting his fair share, so it fell apart.  This was a major setback for if/how Magic will move forward.
> 
> You gotta have money to make money and the current ownership doesn't have enough to make even minor improvements.  The shoestring budget is just enough to keep operations open while loosing money every day.



Define "open"


----------



## ShadyGrove (Feb 5, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Define "open"



Getting a dusty bottle of bud light out of the bottom of the cooler in the bar for full price counts, right?


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## skithetrees (Feb 5, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> It sounds like a lot of folks aren't aware that a viable offer to buy Magic was put forth in Autumn '15.  Unfortunately one of the owners got greedy and didn't think he was getting his fair share, so it fell apart.  This was a major setback for if/how Magic will move forward.
> 
> You gotta have money to make money and the current ownership doesn't have enough to make even minor improvements.  The shoestring budget is just enough to keep operations open while loosing money every day.



That's why I am not all that bummed about this season. This could force their hand a bit. I am telling myself this is simply short term pain for long term gain. Helps me stay positive, but unfortunate for the many people that work so hard for the mountain.


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## slatham (Feb 5, 2016)

MRG replacing the single with a single was not about character, it was about controlling downhill traffic on steep, 100% natural terrain. That's one huge advantage of skiing Magic - the "uphill capacity to downhill acreage ratio" is very good for high quality skiing (when there's snow).

Can't do a T-bar on Phoenix due to need for expensive bridge over the creek, and the issue of the steeps/rock ledge on Green Line. Putting a T-bar back onto Show Off would be more reasonable/usable (i.e. racing, terrain park, early open). But not sure cost/benefit makes sense. Carpet lift does. So does the true beginner lift in the OLD Hocus Pocus area (lookers right of Black Lift).

If I were the guys looking to buy Magic last summer I would be thanking my lucky stars it fell through. I just hope the sellers realize their mistake and come to the table this summer and the deal gets done.


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## 69skier (Feb 5, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> Getting a dusty bottle of bud light out of the bottom of the cooler in the bar for full price counts, right?



Who the hell drinks bud light at Magic?


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 5, 2016)

69skier said:


> Who the hell drinks bud light at Magic?



This is how they make Bud Light.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 5, 2016)

69skier said:


> Who the hell drinks bud light at Magic?



I've been there when it's all that is left to drink at the bar.  Taps dry, all other bottles gone, no liquor out, etc.  Trust me, it takes desperate times!


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 5, 2016)

Thats pissah!


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## makimono (Feb 5, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> This is how they make Bud Light.




Hmmm...could save some money on duct tape and garbage bags...


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 5, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> I've been there when it's all that is left to drink at the bar.  Taps dry, all other bottles gone, no liquor out, etc.  Trust me, it takes desperate times!



At that point I go back and get beer in my condo lol. Thankfully the taps have been flowing steadily the last several weeks.


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2016)

69skier said:


> Who the hell drinks bud light at Magic?



Some of the parents of racer kids from Stratton and the Hermitage Club when they have to go there for a race ;-)

I can attest from many past personal experiences that us Mount Snow racer parents fully respect the quality of what flows through the tap lines at the BLT (And sometimes flows from the shot ski as well! ;-) )


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## BlueTrails (Feb 7, 2016)

The Phoenix lift is DOA.  Some of the footing work has structural issues and I believe there are survey issues as well such as misalignment.  Thus 'finishing' the Phoenix is not in the cards.  As to Black, it's value is for backup and capacity (should it ever snow in VT again).  Red has failed at critical moments generating lines of very disappointed (to say the least) customers at the ticket window demanding refunds.   I think it's a valid complaint that Magic is not beginner friendly and that reputation discourages families and new comers.  The handle tow can be downright dangerous as a former ski instructor required knee surgery when got distracted and a 'handle' spun just enough to take out his leg.  I'd love to see a real slow chair or even magic carpet go back in where Rabbit Run is.  That used to be the beginner area a long time ago.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 7, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> The Phoenix lift is DOA.  Some of the footing work has structural issues and I believe there are survey issues as well such as misalignment.  Thus 'finishing' the Phoenix is not in the cards.  As to Black, it's value is for backup and capacity (should it ever snow in VT again).  Red has failed at critical moments generating lines of very disappointed (to say the least) customers at the ticket window demanding refunds.   I think it's a valid complaint that Magic is not beginner friendly and that reputation discourages families and new comers.  The handle tow can be downright dangerous as a former ski instructor required knee surgery when got distracted and a 'handle' spun just enough to take out his leg.  I'd love to see a real slow chair or even magic carpet go back in where Rabbit Run is.  That used to be the beginner area a long time ago.



Interesting. From the photos I've seen I thought that the Phoenix looked a bit off. As in not lined up.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Feb 8, 2016)

" Red has failed at critical moments generating lines of very disappointed (to say the least) customers at the ticket window demanding refunds."

I haven't experienced this since the refurb two summers ago, but for a long list of reasons have not been over this year. Has Red had issues this year or last?

Also, anyone have insight as to whether Magic might make some snow to try to expand terrain? While the weather pattern is ripe for some storms, thus far they have been missing So VT.


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## jrmagic (Feb 8, 2016)

slatham said:


> " Red has failed at critical moments generating lines of very disappointed (to say the least) customers at the ticket window demanding refunds."
> 
> I haven't experienced this since the refurb two summers ago, but for a long list of reasons have not been over this year. Has Red had issues this year or last?
> 
> Also, anyone have insight as to whether Magic might make some snow to try to expand terrain? While the weather pattern is ripe for some storms, thus far they have been missing So VT.



Depends on what you mean by "issues". It blew an o ring during Christmas week last year leaving people stuck on the lift for an hour (myself included)  and took another hour plus to fix after that. Not really a big problem but when it's the only lift running it quickly becomes one.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 8, 2016)

slatham said:


> " Also, anyone have insight as to whether Magic might make some snow to try to expand terrain? While the weather pattern is ripe for some storms, thus far they have been missing So VT.



They plan to make snow this week on all existing open trails to improve conditions there. Then perhaps add a Carumba/lower Red and Medium


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 8, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> They plan to make snow this week on all existing open trails to improve conditions there. Then perhaps add a Carumba/lower Red and Medium



Caveat - once the compressor parts are received.  They are expected either Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## slatham (Feb 8, 2016)

Thx. Lets hope this weeks snow activity outperforms the forecast and one of the several storms over the next 10 days delivers deep snow to SoVT (I don't need it in my back yard on Long Island!!!!)


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## mbedle (Feb 8, 2016)

Is it possible these guys are going to finish out the season with only one expert/intermediate trail open TTB? I knew they had limited snowmaking capacity, just didn't think it was that bad.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 8, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> Caveat - once the compressor parts are received.  They are expected either Tuesday or Wednesday.



They have the fan guns ready to go tonight on Showoff - they don't need a compressor but the electric needed to run them is only in the Showoff-Wand-HocusPocus (mainslope) loop.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 8, 2016)

mbedle said:


> Is it possible these guys are going to finish out the season with only one expert/intermediate trail open TTB? I knew they had limited snowmaking capacity, just didn't think it was that bad.



It's not a question of capacity, it's a question of money and management.


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## mbedle (Feb 8, 2016)

I would bet it tends towards a money issue more than anything. In other words, a failing business that doesn't have access to capital, can be easily perceived as having poor management. Add the crappy weather and it looks a lot worst from our perspective.


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## jrmagic (Feb 8, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I would bet it tends towards a money issue more than anything. In other words, a failing business that doesn't have access to capital, can be easily perceived as having poor management. Add the crappy weather and it looks a lot worst from our perspective.



Yes a failing business without access to capital can be perceived as having bad management. Trust me when I say that in thus case, it goes wayyyyy beyond a perception issue.


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2016)

slatham said:


> " Red has failed at critical moments generating lines of very disappointed (to say the least) customers at the ticket window demanding refunds."
> 
> I haven't experienced this since the refurb two summers ago, but for a long list of reasons have not been over this year. Has Red had issues this year or last?
> .



Yes last year i was at magic on a sat in February when the red went down for 3 hours.. Which led to too much drinking at the bar. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Brewbeer (Feb 8, 2016)

Getting lowered off of the red chair by a rope is a Magic experience!


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## skifasttakechances (Feb 8, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> Yes a failing business without access to capital can be perceived as having bad management. Trust me when I say that in thus case, it goes wayyyyy beyond a perception issue.



Bingo!


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## slatham (Feb 9, 2016)

Compressor issue = why I think they need to expand the terrain where the electrical for the Fans reaches, assuming this isn't some exorbitant amount. I may be wrong, but I presume running 5 fan guns is less cost, all in, than running 5 air/water guns.


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2016)

slatham said:


> Compressor issue = why I think they need to expand the terrain where the electrical for the Fans reaches, assuming this isn't some exorbitant amount. I may be wrong, but I presume running 5 fan guns is less cost, all in, than running 5 air/water guns.



How many fans they can run at once might be more of a factor of how much capacity their electrical lines currently on the mountain have.

I just looked at the Areco website (the company who made Magic'c fanguns, but was recently bought by another fangun manufacturer, Sufag out of Sweden, and now the combined products are all marketed under the Sufag brand name), to get some electrical demand specs for each fan gun.  It appears from the pictures on Magic's FB page that their fan's are Areco's "standard" model, which per the electrical needs specs listed can operate on "as little as 15 kW" per gun.  If Magic has Areco's larger model, the Supersnow (and the graphic and exterior identifiers on the 2 models are very close in appearance, but I will try and sneak a peak this coming Monday when I'm going to be at Magic watching my kids race), then the electrical demands jump to just over 30kW per fan gun, so who knows if they could run more fan guns at the same time, even if they had the electrical boxes on more terrain.

I suppose, that their water pumping capacity could also be an issue, as depending on how much water the operator chooses to send through a gun (be it a fan gun or an air/water gun) most snowmaking equipment has a operational range between about 30 gallons/minute up to about 120 gallons/minute.  If Magic can only pump say 1000 gallons a minute (and I have no clue how much water their pumps can push up the hill per minute), then that doesn't let them run a heck of a lot of guns simultaneously with a decent amount of water being transformed into snow per gun per minute


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 9, 2016)

With all that being said, the fan guns on Showoff are running now.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 9, 2016)

ShadyGrove said:


> With all that being said, the fan guns on Showoff are running now.



I'm sure the racers will enjoy it


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 9, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I'm sure the racers will enjoy it



with 3" of new snow, thinking Trick to Kinderspiel this week!


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## Sorcerer (Feb 9, 2016)

There's another 1 to 3 probable for Wed-that should open Kinderspiel


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## gmcunni (Feb 9, 2016)

sorry if covered already can't keep up with this thread...

black spinning for pres weekend?


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 9, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> sorry if covered already can't keep up with this thread...
> 
> black spinning for pres weekend?



Knot...


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 9, 2016)

Oh, but it will be ready "in a couple weeks"   :roll:  :lol::lol:


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## lotsarocks (Feb 9, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> sorry if covered already can't keep up with this thread...
> 
> Black spinning for pres weekend?



soon!


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## 69skier (Feb 10, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> soon!



Has anyone witnessed it currently ( meaning this past week) being worked on?


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## Tin (Feb 10, 2016)

No more Thursdays?!


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## wa-loaf (Feb 10, 2016)

The just posted this: http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7aa25df3430f5fd8a6aacf087&id=511d650acd


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## lotsarocks (Feb 10, 2016)

No, not last weekend, but yes weekend before. Anyway they are busy blowing snow 24/7 again, so all is well with brokeass mountain.


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## Abominable (Feb 10, 2016)

"brokeass mountain"

Ha!


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## zoomzoom (Feb 10, 2016)

someone here mentioned that a guy from colorado was working on the black drive, no updates that i know of.  they're advertising 5inch of new stuff in the last 24hrs.  prob should go thursday.  : )


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## reefer (Feb 10, 2016)

oompaloompa said:


> someone here mentioned that a guy from colorado was working on the black drive, no updates that i know of.  they're advertising 5inch of new stuff in the last 24hrs.  prob should go thursday.  : )



Pretty sure they are closed Thursday...................... again, according to the Alpine Update link off their facebook page. Some bitchin' going on. I'm thinking I may head over there Friday just to get some turns in.


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## Treepopper (Feb 10, 2016)

It appears they are not going to open tomorrow for Throwback Thursday?
WTF is going on in this place?!?!


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## NYDB (Feb 10, 2016)

I feel really bad for seasons pass holders.  I purchased a thursday ticket on groupon for $15 a month ago which I haven't been able to use since they aren't really open thursdays.  That makes me a bit angry.  

I can't imagine giving them $600 and having them screw me like that.  I'd be wicked pissed.


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## zoomzoom (Feb 10, 2016)

well, crappola.  they're advertising 5inches of new snow tues, snow showers tonight and thursday, but not open thursday?  maybe i'll try them after the holidays, on the 25th.  :roll:


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## slatham (Feb 10, 2016)

I can buy not being open last Thursday after the rain. But not opening tomorrow? When you say your operating schedule is Thur-Sun, you better have a good reason to not be open, like last Thursday. Surprised the conspiracy theorists aren't claiming Red is down or the lodge failed a health inspection or some other tragedy. I guess everyone just realizes its management. To be honest I was afraid they wouldn't be open next week, especially since I will be up to finally claim my pass and make some Magic turns. Hope its a strong end to the season these next 6 weeks. THINK SNOW!


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## lotsarocks (Feb 10, 2016)

slatham said:


> I can buy not being open last Thursday after the rain. But not opening tomorrow? When you say your operating schedule is Thur-Sun, you better have a good reason to not be open, like last Thursday. Surprised the conspiracy theorists aren't claiming Red is down or the lodge failed a health inspection or some other tragedy. I guess everyone just realizes its management. To be honest I was afraid they wouldn't be open next week, especially since I will be up to finally claim my pass and make some Magic turns. Hope its a strong end to the season these next 6 weeks. THINK SNOW!



Well to your point, they weren't serving food last Saturday. Was told it wasn't due to them forgetting to order food or anything trivial like that sooo.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 10, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> Well to your point, they weren't serving food last Saturday. Was told it wasn't due to them forgetting to order food or anything trivial like that sooo.



They had no food service last weekend?!


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## lotsarocks (Feb 10, 2016)

Not sat at 3:30 when we tried to order. Sux cause I planned to stay awhile. Next week I guess.


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## ss20 (Feb 10, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> Well to your point, they weren't serving food last Saturday. Was told it wasn't due to them forgetting to order food or anything trivial like that sooo.





thetrailboss said:


> They had no food service last weekend?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone





lotsarocks said:


> Not sat at 3:30 when we tried to order. Sux cause I planned to stay awhile. Next week I guess.



I'm on the floor right now.  You can't make this stuff up!!!


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## BlueTrails (Feb 10, 2016)

No food service is interesting if true.  Over the JS years, many accounts went into arrears and Magic got a bad rep as a debtor, thus many suppliers went into COD mode.  Fuel oil for snow making and food services were in this category.  Magic had to pay cash in the parking lot.....no joke.  I was up last weekend and lines were short.  I don't believe there is much cash coming into the mountain anywhere except the bar.  So beer sales are probably all that is keeping payroll alive.  Cutting Thursdays would help the payroll load.  No food would indicate we might have fallen behind on our invoices in that department.  I suspect that if you want to help the mountain, the best thing to do is buy beer.  The ski season is a bust.  My friend tells me Okemo has cut their condo prices by over 50% for President's week.  This means the big mountains know this season is over and are in total SALE mode.  I drove by Bromley this past weekend and they were way below normal activity. This past weekend was Boy Scout Ski Weekend.  They usually host about 2000 kids.  The only pulled in about 200.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 11, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> Well to your point, they weren't serving food last Saturday. Was told it wasn't due to them forgetting to order food or anything trivial like that sooo.



I heard something happened to the propane delivery system. It was fixed and there was food later - at least I got some.


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## slatham (Feb 11, 2016)

Anyone have local knowledge of how much snow they got last night? Report says 1" but wondering if it hasn't been updated given Bromley 3-5" and Mt Snow and Stratton 4". Or was it all upslope along the spine of the Greens and Magic lost out? Hoping they can pick up enough to open some natural. Should be a bit more with the artic front. Then we need overdrive on snowdances for next week......


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## Tin (Feb 11, 2016)

At least Sarr is doing well on the FB PR front.


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## lotsarocks (Feb 11, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> I heard something happened to the propane delivery system. It was fixed and there was food later - at least I got some.



That's good to hear. Was hoping it wasn't an inspection thing. Locally we have some overzealous fire inspectors that shut places down right before busy weekends for nonsense stuff.


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## drjeff (Feb 11, 2016)

Mental note made to BRING some food this coming Monday when my kids have a race there!!  Especially since Magic is also scheduled to host a race there this Sunday 

While me and my wife would be OK sustaining ourselves on the "Liquid Nutrition" available at the BLT,  I'm guessing they'd have an issue serving it to a 10 and 12yr old!  :beer:


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## Sorcerer (Feb 11, 2016)

slatham said:


> Anyone have local knowledge of how much snow they got last night? Report says 1" but wondering if it hasn't been updated given Bromley 3-5" and Mt Snow and Stratton 4". Or was it all upslope along the spine of the Greens and Magic lost out? Hoping they can pick up enough to open some natural. Should be a bit more with the artic front. Then we need overdrive on snowdances for next week......



1 to 2". I think the others are reporting the 2 day total. I went by Bromley and  there was no 3-5" of new snow unless they found a spot on top.


----------



## Do Work (Feb 11, 2016)

slatham said:


> Anyone have local knowledge of how much snow they got last night? Report says 1" but wondering if it hasn't been updated given Bromley 3-5" and Mt Snow and Stratton 4". Or was it all upslope along the spine of the Greens and Magic lost out? Hoping they can pick up enough to open some natural. Should be a bit more with the artic front. Then we need overdrive on snowdances for next week......





We have gotten a pretty decent smattering spread out over this week from what I've been told by people up there.  Couple inches on the 9th (I heard 3-4") and apparently another 4-5" last night into this morning.  We really lucked out last night!!  All things considered the snow should be really good this weekend, hopefully it is of at least medium denisty so we can get around a little!  I'm looking forward to hearing back from some friends who area out skinning it today, this is likely the best conditions we have looked since that first hit.  Given the little bit of snowmaking they did to shore up the existing trails and open a few new east side options, this is looking to be a really fun weekend!


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## Do Work (Feb 11, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> 1 to 2". I think the others are reporting the 2 day total. I went by Bromley and  there was no 3-5" of new snow unless they found a spot on top.




Thant's kind of funny.  I had someone calling me all jacked up this morning because there was nothing at their house and Magic apparently had done much better.  Now I really wonder what it actually looks like up there haha


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## Tin (Feb 11, 2016)

S t o k e!


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## slatham (Feb 11, 2016)

I frequent Bromley (have a condo there) and what I have experienced is they under report if anything. That and there is a much bigger spread than I would have ever thought between what the base gets and what is up on the mountain. So I buy the 3-5, and it is supported by the 4" at Stratton and Mt Snow (short of collusion at least). So my guess is that Magic got a lot more than 1" last night, at least up on the terrain. But I guess we won't know until someone with first hand knowledge chimes in, and the bottom line is what additional terrain can they open?


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## Sorcerer (Feb 11, 2016)

slatham said:


> I frequent Bromley (have a condo there) and what I have experienced is they under report if anything. That and there is a much bigger spread than I would have ever thought between what the base gets and what is up on the mountain. So I buy the 3-5, and it is supported by the 4" at Stratton and Mt Snow (short of collusion at least). So my guess is that Magic got a lot more than 1" last night, at least up on the terrain. But I guess we won't know until someone with first hand knowledge chimes in, and the bottom line is what additional terrain can they open?



My ruler doesn't lie  I don't think they cleared their measuring sticks overnight.


----------



## slatham (Feb 11, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> My ruler doesn't lie  I don't think they cleared their measuring sticks overnight.



I believe you, but seeing the pics on facebook they got some nice pow there today. Take look. Wish I was there.....


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 11, 2016)

I'll be up there all next week for anyone who wants to make some turns.


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## NYDB (Feb 11, 2016)

So according to their Facebook page they were closed Thursday to make snow, and reports from people skinning today say they weren't making any at all.  So wtf is going on?


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## lotsarocks (Feb 11, 2016)

NY DirtBag said:


> So according to their Facebook page they were closed Thursday to make snow, and reports from people skinning today say they weren't making any at all.  So wtf is going on?



It's mystifying at this point. Every time they go on FB and say they are making snow 24/7 its total bs. I get that it's a shitty year, I get that they are broke, what I don't get is the blatant lies.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 11, 2016)

slatham said:


> I believe you, but seeing the pics on facebook they got some nice pow there today. Take look. Wish I was there.....



This snow was the tail end of lake effect off of Ontario. Most of it was squeezed out on the spine of the Greens.  Magic is just far enough east that it gets a fraction of what Big Brom, Stratton, etc. got.


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## drjeff (Feb 11, 2016)

MadMadWorld said:


> I'll be up there all next week for anyone who wants to make some turns.



If you see a tall guy on Monday in a Blue coat with white stripes on the sleeves, tan pants, a black helmet and blue Lange boots, likely carrying a BIG duffle bag full of racer kids coats and pants (I usually have "coat bag duty" as I have both a kid in the girls and boys division of the age group racing at Magic on Monday this year), lapping trick to show-off say hi, as it's very likely me!! 

And if after the race is over, if you see a tall, dirty blond guy (I'm 6'3" ) next to an average height dirty blonde female both in Mount Snow  ball caps at the BLT say hi, and the next beer is on me :beer:


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 11, 2016)

Stopped by Magic Monday. All I've got to say is sad.


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 12, 2016)

Hard to believe how little is open.5 trails?


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## Mm2jp1 (Feb 12, 2016)

Here's a secret. There is no patrol director. No one cares if u jump a rope. Don't be obvious and try not to do it in front of a redcoat.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Feb 12, 2016)

Nice surface today and good to hear the compressors running and snow being made. I wish it was on Talisman though. God its going to be cold. I already decided Sunday will be unbearable.


----------



## jrmagic (Feb 12, 2016)

Mm2jp1 said:


> Here's a secret. There is no patrol director. No one cares if u jump a rope. Don't be obvious and try not to do it in front of a redcoat.



I'd bring some rock skis if you plan of following this advice... at least until we get a little more snow. What natural snow we had took a real beating with that last warmup and the  NCP event.


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## jrmagic (Feb 12, 2016)

MadMadWorld said:


> I'll be up there all next week for anyone who wants to make some turns.



Shoot me a text. I'm heading up early Sunday and will probably stay until the following Sunday.


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## slatham (Feb 13, 2016)

Any evidence that they have actually made some snow on Medium and Carumba? Weather is pretty good for making snow, to say the least!


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## Sorcerer (Feb 13, 2016)

slatham said:


> Any evidence that they have actually made some snow on Medium and Carumba? Weather is pretty good for making snow, to say the least!



The snow guns are running on lower Red Line (Carumba) right now.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 14, 2016)

drjeff said:


> If you see a tall guy on Monday in a Blue coat with white stripes on the sleeves, tan pants, a black helmet and blue Lange boots, likely carrying a BIG duffle bag full of racer kids coats and pants (I usually have "coat bag duty" as I have both a kid in the girls and boys division of the age group racing at Magic on Monday this year), lapping trick to show-off say hi, as it's very likely me!!
> 
> And if after the race is over, if you see a tall, dirty blond guy (I'm 6'3" ) next to an average height dirty blonde female both in Mount Snow  ball caps at the BLT say hi, and the next beer is on me :beer:



Will do. Might not be around for very long on Monday since it's everyone will be arriving and unpacking at the house but I will keep my eyes open!



jrmagic said:


> Shoot me a text. I'm heading up early Sunday and will probably stay until the following Sunday.



Cool. I will be toting the whole family for the week so I may be spending time on the rope tow and tubing area.


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## drjeff (Feb 15, 2016)

Sitting in the baselodge now at Magic with about 200 racers/parents/coaches waiting for the Red to feel like warming up in the -9 temp my car said when I turned it off about 20 min ago.....

The word from the coaches is they hope to have it spinning for 9


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 15, 2016)

Over the weekend, I got some of those Facebook history notices about some powder days at Magic last year.  Something about 18 inches of fresh and bombing the lift lines.  *Sigh*


----------



## Tin (Feb 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Sitting in the baselodge now at Magic with about 200 racers/parents/coaches waiting for the Red to feel like warming up in the -9 temp my car said when I turned it off about 20 min ago.....
> 
> The word from the coaches is they hope to have it spinning for 9




Oh damn. Hope they get things going.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Feb 15, 2016)

If experience is any guide, it sounds like the kids have a cold boot pack ahead of them.

At least the top of Show Off is only about 500 vertical feet.


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## drjeff (Feb 15, 2016)

The Red is alive!!


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## Tin (Feb 15, 2016)

drjeff said:


> The Red is alive!!


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 15, 2016)

That's all great and dandy but nobody has updated us on the status of the flags. 


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2016)

What's all the fuss about?  If Red breaks down they have Black as a backup.  Oh, wait...

I feel your pain.  The Willoughby chair at Burke gets the same amount of love that Magic gives Black.


----------



## mriceyman (Feb 15, 2016)

I guesss the black is done for? 


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## lotsarocks (Feb 15, 2016)

I wouldn't count black out yet!! They are working on it today. 
Not sure what's going on with snowmaking though. Nothing on carumba or red line. There's some on lower redline for the hocus cross over and medium looks to be hit hard. Maybe next week.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 15, 2016)

A little Monday afternoon welding and grinding on the base terminal Bullwheel of the Black


----------



## Do Work (Feb 16, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> I guesss the black is done for?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone





Lol.  I give up.  You decide and let everyone know, how about that?   





STOKE!!!


----------



## zoomzoom (Feb 16, 2016)

not done for, bullwheel bearing job.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 16, 2016)

I actually signed up for Mountain Sports club with the Magic tix include. Well Magic never sent the tickets to MSC that they said they would so I have been waiting all season long for them. So now they instead offered me Jay/ WV or Ragged tix in their place. Don't really want any of them. Already have 1/2 off Jay and Ragged tix and really don't like WV. So Magic screwed them and in turn me. MSC really should have waited until they had Tix in hand before offering the deal.


----------



## Tin (Feb 16, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> MSC really should have waited until they had Tix in hand before offering the deal.




Most places do the same and most agreements are made prior to tix in hand during the summer, typical business practice. Cannot blame MSC because Magic completely screwed them over.


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## Smellytele (Feb 16, 2016)

Tin said:


> Most places do the same and most agreements are made prior to tix in hand during the summer, typical business practice. Cannot blame MSC because Magic completely screwed them over.



I don't blame MSC much - I am blaming Magic. 5% MSC - 95% Magic. MSC at least is offering me another choice for the same price


----------



## Tin (Feb 16, 2016)

Good to hear. John is a great guy and always makes things right.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Feb 17, 2016)

Never having  the good fortune of skiing Magic I'm trying to understand if I'm seeing this correct.Is the only open terrain open 1 ttb beginner and 1 ttb most/more difficult runs?If so with what appears to be a pretty advanced regular Magic skier level,are most skiing that 1 ttb run?


----------



## drjeff (Feb 17, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> Never having  the good fortune of skiing Magic I'm trying to understand if I'm seeing this correct.Is the only open terrain open 1 ttb beginner and 1 ttb most/more difficult runs?If so with what appears to be a pretty advanced regular Magic skier level,are most skiing that 1 ttb run?



From having skied Magic on Monday,  yup, you're correct

What they have open is almost like a figure 8 - the top loop of the 8 on the upper say 3rd of the mountain,  a single connector (for now at least) in the middle section and then the lower loop of the 8 on the bottom roughly 1/3rd.  That's it!!!

They've started making snow on a couple of other pieces of trails off the route that's open now.  The entire West side of the mountain from what I could see hasn't seen any snowmaking this year (Talisman, which usually gets a decent coat of manmade looked ugly with just a few inches of natural snow on it and a bunch of grass and rocks sticking through as you looked up at it).

On Monday, before the rain and warm of yesterday arrived, I had to walk across from roughly the top of the tubing hill, under the Red chair and over to the bottom of the race hill to watch my kids race runs (usually you can ski down a trail next to Showoff, the race hill, and cut over to the finish area but there's not enough snow, even by Magic standards, to do that right now), and as I was walking through the woods (way too much exposed rock and underbrush to even think of keeping my skis on!!), the snowpack on the ground barely made it over the toebox of my boots 

Just sad to see what's going on at Magic this year between the management issues and the debacle mother nature is throwing at them as well, as there's so much really good terrain there when they've got snow


----------



## MadMadWorld (Feb 17, 2016)

It was rough today. Gates were up on the only beginner trail and the "easiest way down" as the website claimed was non existent in the AM (wand to hocus pokus was roped off). Felt awful bringing my brothers fiance who has only been skiing a few times. They at least did the right thing and let them keep their lift ticket as well as give them vouchers that is good through 16-17 season (hopefully there will be one).


----------



## bheemsoth (Feb 17, 2016)

Anyone interested in a couple of Groupon Magic vouchers on the cheap? Due to work commitments, I don't think we'll be able to make it this year.


----------



## lotsarocks (Feb 19, 2016)

Sad to see the compressor go. Grooming was great and the morning was one of the better this year. Fast! Medium is still not groomed out yet, maybe tomorrow.


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 19, 2016)

Family pack paid $130, will take 100 if anyone is interested, $20 Groupon as well. I know I'll get rid of these and we will get 30" dump! Chance I'll take


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 19, 2016)

I'm strongly considering trying to unload my 3 pack


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 19, 2016)

lol


----------



## BlueTrails (Feb 21, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> Sad to see the compressor go.



I missed something here.  What do you mean 'go'?  Blew up? returned to lessor?


----------



## drjeff (Feb 21, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> I missed something here.  What do you mean 'go'?  Blew up? returned to lessor?



Presidents week ending - gotta think the lease was up, as it is at most resorts historically right now

Then again this is Magic this year, so  repossessed by the owner for failure of payment might be an option as well.... :-(


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## slatham (Feb 21, 2016)

Rumor has it they've had continuing issues with the compressor they own. And they leased a compressor, which they just returned.  What I don't know for sure is whether they would have leased the compressor anyhow for added capacity, or only did so because they had issues with their compressor. Its been a challenging season to say the least.


----------



## Sorcerer (Feb 21, 2016)

slatham said:


> Rumor has it they've had continuing issues with the compressor they own. And they leased a compressor, which they just returned.  What I don't know for sure is whether they would have leased the compressor anyhow for added capacity, or only did so because they had issues with their compressor. Its been a challenging season to say the least.



They lease compressors every year. They were returned a bit ago and, I think, they tried to get the old one that they had in the lot going but had problems with it so they leased another one to get ready for holiday week.


----------



## lotsarocks (Feb 21, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> They lease compressors every year. They were returned a bit ago and, I think, they tried to get the old one that they had in the lot going but had problems with it so they leased another one to get ready for holiday week.



I wish they had done more while they had the ability. Maybe bolstering the trails they had open. But at least medium was open and will be skiing quite nicely into April.  Magics version of the superstar glacier. Skiing was great but super crowded, (there was a 30 second lift line at one point)


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 21, 2016)

Maybe I'll try to get up there at least once before the end of the year and use one of these vouchers


----------



## manhattanskier (Feb 22, 2016)

This is so depressing. This place is never going to work as a for profit unless someone sinks millions into new lifts and even more importantly snow making. This needs to be taken over as a nonprofit otherwise, how the coop almost happened and failed makes my heart sink.


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## twinplanx (Feb 23, 2016)

manhattanskier said:


> This is so depressing. This place is never going to work as a for profit unless someone sinks millions into new lifts and even more importantly snow making. This needs to be taken over as a nonprofit otherwise, how the coop almost happened and failed makes my heart sink.


I think it's more of a management issue. With the right business model and A LOT of help from Mother Nature, I think Magic could turn a profit. It's in a GREAT location, near other mountains. They should be able to entice enough skiers to have lines at TWO lifts with minimal marketing.


----------



## ShadyGrove (Feb 24, 2016)

Given the number of people at the other local mountains that ask me if Magic is "even open", I think it would take significant marketing to peel away skiers from Bromley, Stratton, or Okemo.  Of course that may or may not be the business model any new management would be seeking.


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## Newpylong (Feb 24, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> I think it's more of a management issue. With the right business model and A LOT of help from Mother Nature, I think Magic could turn a profit. It's in a GREAT location, near other mountains. They should be able to entice enough skiers to have lines at TWO lifts with minimal marketing.



Can't draw skiers from other mountains without snow. Can't rely on mother nature as we have seen. Someone is going to need to dump money into snowmaking, both equipment and budget to turn a profit.


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## Do Work (Feb 24, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> Can't draw skiers from other mountains without snow. Can't rely on mother nature as we have seen. Someone is going to need to dump money into snowmaking, both equipment and budget to turn a profit.




Yes, Magic absolutely needs snow to operate and compete.  

I do, however, know that we have a lot of capabilities we simply don't employ because ownership was so cash-strapped.  If we had a couple hundred thou to throw at it, we could have the full east side and a couple ways down the west side.  Plainly put, all we REALLY need is money.  ABSOLUTE WORST CASE SCENARIO, Magic has the Red Chair, that awesome groomer and a fully functional snowmaking system that reaches the vast majority of the mountain (albeit a bit inefficiently).  They can work with that, but not with their current situation.  Alas, nature did not play nicely this year so it was a double-whammy.  Triple whammy if you count the continued bumblings of the management team (and how can you not).  

Oh well.  Hopefully it was a blessing in disguise and it will force current ownership to sell to the team that attempted the buyout last year.  Things are actually much better than the current management team and weather would have you believe, though.  It won't take much to provide a vastly superior experience in a lot of ways.


----------



## Tin (Feb 24, 2016)

do work said:


> yes, magic absolutely needs snow to operate and compete.
> 
> I do, however, know that we have a lot of capabilities we simply don't employ because ownership was so cash-strapped.  If we had a couple hundred thou to throw at it, we could have the full east side and a couple ways down the west side.  Plainly put, all we really need is money.  Absolute worst case scenario, magic has the red chair, that awesome groomer and a fully functional snowmaking system that reaches the vast majority of the mountain (albeit a bit inefficiently).  They can work with that, but not with their current situation.  Alas, nature did not play nicely this year so it was a double-whammy.  Triple whammy if you count the continued bumblings of the management team (and how can you not).
> 
> Oh well.  Hopefully it was a blessing in disguise and it will force current ownership to sell to the team that attempted the buyout last year.  Things are actually much better than the current management team and weather would have you believe, though.  It won't take much to provide a vastly superior experience in a lot of ways.




stoke!


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## lotsarocks (Feb 24, 2016)

I feel once they have a reliable product  ie a staple group of trails that are covered in snow no matter what ma nature brings and two ways to the top to make sure people don't have a bad experience they will be on to something. But until that happens they have nowhere to go but down. Once they have a stabilized product a great marketing person could do wonders. The prices can be so low comparatively that they should be able to get bus trips and ski groups to get on board. organize with colleges and offer amazing trip rates.  They need to hit up shops old school and offer employees free ski days like mountains used to. Free skiing will attract shop employees who by word of mouth reach large numbers of people. They certainly are doing something right with the race groups. Expand on that. Lastly they have so many trails with long run-outs why not work features in on some of these. Kids want what they want. Why not be well rounded and offer a bit of everything. Race,freeride,trees,groomers,tavern. I hope the new group gets their chance and that the future is bright. Thanks for the efforts DW, your a driving force


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## slatham (Feb 24, 2016)

Does the Magic Faithful have to draw the line and not support Magic until management/ownership is changed? I feel like we're perpetuating and enabling a bad situation to continue. Do we need an intervention? I am just fringe faithful compared to Do Work, Rusty, Jamaica Man, etc. But I bought a pass and vouchers for the family etc. (unused so far). I donated via the "shareholder" plan. I cut glades. But right now I really don't feel like offering any further support without a change. And if there is an opportunity for change via the "investor group" and current ownership passes on it again, then I am done. I can't believe I am the only one that feels this way......


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 24, 2016)

I usually buy my pass early to help with the cash flow. Not this upcoming year.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> Does the Magic Faithful have to draw the line and not support Magic until management/ownership is changed? I feel like we're perpetuating and enabling a bad situation to continue. Do we need an intervention? I am just fringe faithful compared to Do Work, Rusty, Jamaica Man, etc. But I bought a pass and vouchers for the family etc. (unused so far). I donated via the "shareholder" plan. I cut glades. But right now I really don't feel like offering any further support without a change. And if there is an opportunity for change via the "investor group" and current ownership passes on it again, then I am done. I can't believe I am the only one that feels this way......



You're far from alone.  Many have been extremely reserved for the reasons above.  We'd have an army in the right hands.


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## BlueTrails (Feb 24, 2016)

Could it be that climate change is at work here? (As I listen to the thunderstorms/rain/wind at 63°F right now in CT) I have a friend who lives/skis Mt. Batchelor near Bend, OR and they've received over 350" of snow since Oct 1, 2015.  (Yep, I said THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY INCHES OF SNOW.  That's over 29 FEET for you non-math majors, and don't bother me with that 'light fluffy' argument.  That's actually the kind of snow we dream of).  Could it be that in 20 years we'll have indoor inflatable domes to ski under like Dubai?

http://www.mtbachelor.com/conditions-report/


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## BlueTrails (Feb 25, 2016)

Why pay to make snow every year?  Let's cover Magic in sand just once and we can ski year round.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 25, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> Could it be that climate change is at work here? (As I listen to the thunderstorms/rain/wind at 63°F right now in CT) I have a friend who lives/skis Mt. Batchelor near Bend, OR and they've received over 350" of snow since Oct 1, 2015.  (Yep, I said THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY INCHES OF SNOW.  That's over 29 FEET for you non-math majors, and don't bother me with that 'light fluffy' argument.  That's actually the kind of snow we dream of).  Could it be that in 20 years we'll have indoor inflatable domes to ski under like Dubai?
> 
> http://www.mtbachelor.com/conditions-report/



Last year Bachelor only got 175" and much of the Pacific NW resorts closed in early March.  

Yet we were doing fine.  

I won't rule out climate change, but you can't bring up how well a place like Bachelor is doing this year without also bringing up how bad they did last year.

Likewise on our coast, this winter has sucked.  However, the prior ten years was the snowiest decade stretch ever recorded for Boston.


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 25, 2016)

Saw both these right next to each other on the main page this moning.

Open this THURSDAY 2/25 
Closed Thursday 2/25, planning to reopen Friday


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## eatskisleep (Feb 25, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Last year Bachelor only got 175" and much of the Pacific NW resorts closed in early March.
> 
> Yet we were doing fine.
> 
> ...



This is what everyone seems to forget.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 25, 2016)

Top corner says "total trails open: 6" "lifts open: 3" But it's closed today, right?

On the homepage you can also "Buy your season pass now and save!" Hmmmm, good time to save...save on skiing not a pass, I guess.

Also this: "Open trails include Sunshine Corner..." Didn't realize that was a trail.

Embarrassing.


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## slatham (Feb 25, 2016)

Sorry to quote myself:

"I feel like we're perpetuating and enabling a bad situation to continue."


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## BlueTrails (Feb 25, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Last year Bachelor only got 175" and much of the Pacific NW resorts closed in early March.
> 
> Yet we were doing fine.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm no expert on Bachelor, I was just stunned by this year's snowfall out there....and really 175" is a crappy year?

Boston was wild last year.  I was there, but Boston is not VT and this year more snow has fallen on Long Island than CT, MA or VT.

We have about 45 days max left of 'winter' historically for a serious VT storm.  Time will tell.


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## Treepopper (Feb 26, 2016)

*Hearing this....*



slatham said:


> Does the Magic Faithful have to draw the line and not support Magic until management/ownership is changed? I feel like we're perpetuating and enabling a bad situation to continue. Do we need an intervention? I am just fringe faithful compared to Do Work, Rusty, Jamaica Man, etc. But I bought a pass and vouchers for the family etc. (unused so far). I donated via the "shareholder" plan. I cut glades. But right now I really don't feel like offering any further support without a change. And if there is an opportunity for change via the "investor group" and current ownership passes on it again, then I am done. I can't believe I am the only one that feels this way......



There are many others feeling this, there are some passholders who believe that current management should be told if they don't execute a sale for " the better of the mtn." They will not be back next year. Perhaps a passholder " revolt" would help barker and lyzaar get the real picture that a sale needs to happen. There are others who were once passholders who also would return when this management team is gone. It may be time for a unified front........


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## UYSDYP (Feb 26, 2016)

My family (3passes) will be going elsewhere unless a sale is made before the first pricing deadline.  If a sale is made after that we will support with day tickets until the following year. I'd rather give my money to an area that will at least try to provide a decent product.


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## mriceyman (Feb 29, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> Yeah, I'm no expert on Bachelor, I was just stunned by this year's snowfall out there....and really 175" is a crappy year?
> 
> Boston was wild last year.  I was there, but Boston is not VT and this year more snow has fallen on Long Island than CT, MA or VT.
> 
> We have about 45 days max left of 'winter' historically for a serious VT storm.  Time will tell.



Those big mountains need well over 200"+ otherwise they will be rocky messes.. We back east can open 100% with ALOT less snow. 


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## hammer (Mar 2, 2016)

Saw this on my Facebook page from 4 years ago...think it was Upper Wizard.  Fun place when there's snow, hope they can pull through whatever is going on.


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## ShadyGrove (Mar 2, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> Yeah, I'm no expert on Bachelor, I was just stunned by this year's snowfall out there....and really 175" is a crappy year?



Snow totals in the PNW are usually much higher than 175".  In '99-00 Mt. Baker received 1200" (100 ft) of snow.


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## prsboogie (Mar 2, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Family pack paid $130, will take 100 if anyone is interested, $20 Groupon as well. I know I'll get rid of these and we will get 30" dump! Chance I'll take



$65 for two adult and two kids tickets, anyone?


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## BabyGuinness (Mar 7, 2016)

Monday morning work... Not sure why the image(s) are on their side. Indicative of our season I guess...


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## BabyGuinness (Mar 7, 2016)




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## JoeB-Z (Mar 7, 2016)

Crane is encouraging. Skied Magic Fri, Sat, Sunday. Up and down constantly just trying to raise my fitness a bit for a Colorado long weekend in two weeks. Over thirty runs of Trick to Showoff plus the occasional trip down the easier routes to break up the boredom. Grooming was excellent given what they had to work with. Place was really empty, not even many regulars were there. I suspect the plug will be pulled on the season at the earliest opportunity.


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## drjeff (Mar 7, 2016)

Does anyone know if the Black needs to pass certification, during Magic's operating season this year or is it before a set time on the calendar this year to prevent it from having to be scrapped (as the rumor goes it would have to be if it doesn't get certified this "year"?) ??


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## gmcunni (Mar 7, 2016)

BabyGuinness said:


> Monday morning work...



are they dismantling black?


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## WoodCore (Mar 7, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> are they dismantling black?




Bullwheel bearing I believe.


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## slatham (Mar 10, 2016)

So I heard in the very active rumor mill that yes passing inspection during this ski season would avoid a more complicated/costly situation next year. Not sure how "this season" is defined, but if it's the most obvious one, then they better hurry up because today's video indicated this weekend was a challenge, and given longer range forecast, the season will end next week. That video also showed lots of activity on Black so it just may be crunch time, right now.


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 10, 2016)

slatham said:


> So I heard in the very active rumor mill that yes passing inspection during this ski season would avoid a more complicated/costly situation next year. Not sure how "this season" is defined, but if it's the most obvious one, then they better hurry up because today's video indicated this weekend was a challenge, and given longer range forecast, the season will end next week. That video also showed lots of activity on Black so it just may be crunch time, right now.



I can't imagine a regulatory agency would have a deadline with a definition as ambiguous as "season". I have to imagine there is a defined date which is likely not correlated with whether the resort is open for customers. 


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## rocks860 (Mar 11, 2016)

Well looks like none of my vouchers are getting used this year. You're welcome for the $100 donation magic


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## PearlJam09 (Mar 11, 2016)

I'd be willing to print them and leave them by the ticket window for anyone crazy enough to be buying a day ticket.  They won't go to waste and you'll be helping someone else out. Let me know if you want to do that.


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## Smellytele (Mar 11, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> Well looks like none of my vouchers are getting used this year. You're welcome for the $100 donation magic



only donated $60 myself


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## rtjcbrown (Mar 11, 2016)

What is "Sunshine Corner"?


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## lotsarocks (Mar 11, 2016)

rtjcbrown said:


> What is "Sunshine Corner"?



Apparently a new trail


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## makimono (Mar 11, 2016)

rtjcbrown said:


> What is "Sunshine Corner"?



Yikes just noticed Trick isn't open anymore?

Sunshine corner is the wide part of Wand above the Green Chair and just below Upper Magic Carpet. Not exactly a trail but who's counting.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 11, 2016)

rtjcbrown said:


> What is "Sunshine Corner"?









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## BlueTrails (Mar 12, 2016)

'Sunshine Corner' is technically where Wand begins.  You ski from Medium or Magic Carpet into this sweeping left hand turn that widens out into a gorgeous view West to Bromley.  If the sun is out, this section of trail can be luxuriously illuminated.  If it's late in the day, you may be greeted by a glowing velvet sky.  IMHO aside from the top of Master Magician, it is one of the very special places on the mountain.


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## slatham (Mar 13, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> I can't imagine a regulatory agency would have a deadline with a definition as ambiguous as "season". I have to imagine there is a defined date which is likely not correlated with whether the resort is open for customers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Yes I am sure you are correct but not sure how they define it. I do recall that it had to do with certifying a lift that hadn't been in operation for certain number of "years" or "seasons". But I do know that the process of getting a lift certified after it has been dormant for a certain period of time is much more rigorous than your typical, annual certification.

Someone with more knowledge want to chime in?


----------



## zoomzoom (Mar 13, 2016)

this was discussed back in january.  below is a copy of 2011 B77.1 regs regarding acceptance inspections (used to call them load tests) from post #2514:

4.1.1.11.1 Acceptance inspection

Before an aerial lift that is new or relocated or that has
not been operated for routine maintenance within the
previous 2 years is opened to the public, it shall be given
a thorough inspection by qualified personnel to verify
compliance with the plans and specifications of the
designer.

4.1.1.11.2 Acceptance tests
Before an aerial lift that is new or relocated or that has
not been operated for routine maintenance within the
previous 2 years is opened to the public, it shall be given
thorough tests by qualified personnel to verify
compliance with the plans and specifications of the
designer. The designer or manufacturer shall propose
and submit an acceptance test procedure.
Test load per carrier shall be 110% of the design live
load. Thorough load and operating tests shall be
performed under full loading and any partial loadings that
may provide the most adverse operating conditions. The
functioning of all push-button stops, automatic stops,
limit switches, deropement switches, and
communications shall be checked. Acceleration and
deceleration rates shall be satisfactory under all loadings
(see 4.1.2.4). Motive power and all braking and rollback
devices (see 4.1.2.6) shall be proved adequate under
the most adverse loadings.


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## drjeff (Mar 13, 2016)

Guess we'll find out if the Black had to pass certification BEFORE the season ended at Magic or not based on the post that went up on their FB a little while ago :-(


----------



## VTKilarney (Mar 13, 2016)

Did they ever get more than one top to bottom route open?


.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 13, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Did they ever get more than one top to bottom route open?
> 
> 
> .



Depends on what your definition of "more than one" is!!

They had 2 separate routes on the top 1/3rd or so, and 2 separate routes on the bottom 1/3rd or so, but just one connector piece in the middle - kind of like a figure 8 with an extended mid section ;-)


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## Do Work (Mar 14, 2016)

BlueTrails said:


> 'Sunshine Corner' is technically where Wand begins.  You ski from Medium or Magic Carpet into this sweeping left hand turn that widens out into a gorgeous view West to Bromley.  If the sun is out, this section of trail can be luxuriously illuminated.  If it's late in the day, you may be greeted by a glowing velvet sky.  IMHO aside from the top of Master Magician, it is one of the very special places on the mountain.





Can't agree more.  I love Sunshine Corner, people just collect there on a nice day.  They need to get the picnic tables back up there for next year.

What a great end to the season though.  Bittersweet indeed but got to ski with a bunch of really awesome people and Sunday afternoon- Trick to Hocus was so $$$$$.  Soft perfect peeler corn and fun little chokes here and there... Nobody on the mountain.  One for the books.  Cheers to all the people who came out and had fun this year!


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## Smellytele (Mar 14, 2016)

Do Work said:


> Can't agree more.  I love Sunshine Corner, people just collect there on a nice day.  They need to get the picnic tables back up there for next year.



If there is a next year...


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## Newpylong (Mar 14, 2016)

There also is a difference between not open to the public and dormant. Tenney's lifts were dormant and accordingly had to essentially have their control and safety systems entirely rebuild/upgraded for the lift to be accepted. I believe Black has had maintenance done but just has not been certified due to various defects. It should have to have it's mechanical and existing safety systems in working order but as long as it keeps spinning every season and getting routine maintenance it should not become at risk of losing it grandfathered status. At least that is how I read it.


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## valsoar (Mar 14, 2016)

Took a few runs Sunday morning then after lunch hiked up the west side just so I'd actually been there this season.  As I walked past the bottom of black, the Colorado lift guys were there sitting up by the drive bull-wheel and the lift was moving slowly.  Clearly they're still trying to get there before whatever the deadline may be.  Good to see.


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## BlueTrails (Mar 14, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> There also is a difference between not open to the public and dormant. Tenney's lifts were dormant and accordingly had to essentially have their control and safety systems entirely rebuild/upgraded for the lift to be accepted. I believe Black has had maintenance done but just has not been certified due to various defects. It should have to have it's mechanical and existing safety systems in working order but as long as it keeps spinning every season and getting routine maintenance it should not become at risk of losing it grandfathered status. At least that is how I read it.



The problem is that Black has not been certified for public use in years.  It was condemned by the VDOT under the JS regime, but TB filed an appeal and a modification for the grips was approved.  That work was done last fall.  There was still a punch list of minor items, but the drive bull wheel bearing was not on that list....so some new items cropped up in the last few months. The crane was not cheap, and I think these efforts demonstrate a serious effort to beat the 'scrap metal' deadline that is looming.  Simply put, it is certified this season (I'm guessing some day in April) or it's history.


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## slatham (Mar 15, 2016)

We can argue the amount, but the value of Magic is a good amount higher with two working and certified summit lifts.


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## Northernflight (Mar 16, 2016)

I visited magic for the first time two weeks ago. Seems like a pretty cool place and I am trying to get back there next year, hopefully with more snow.

One thing that did rub me the wrong way was that the liftie had a tip jar set up. I have never seen that anywhere before and as much as I appriciate the job a liftie does, I don't really view it as a tippable position. Anyone else see this before?


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## mriceyman (Mar 17, 2016)

Northernflight said:


> I visited magic for the first time two weeks ago. Seems like a pretty cool place and I am trying to get back there next year, hopefully with more snow.
> 
> One thing that did rub me the wrong way was that the liftie had a tip jar set up. I have never seen that anywhere before and as much as I appriciate the job a liftie does, I don't really view it as a tippable position. Anyone else see this before?



Probably isnt gettn paid 


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## VTKilarney (Mar 17, 2016)

Northernflight said:


> I visited magic for the first time two weeks ago. Seems like a pretty cool place and I am trying to get back there next year, hopefully with more snow.
> 
> One thing that did rub me the wrong way was that the liftie had a tip jar set up. I have never seen that anywhere before and as much as I appriciate the job a liftie does, I don't really view it as a tippable position. Anyone else see this before?



There seems to be a proliferation of jobs that expect tips.  I never thought that I'd see it taken to this extreme, though.


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## Cannonball (Mar 17, 2016)

Northernflight said:


> I visited magic for the first time two weeks ago. Seems like a pretty cool place and I am trying to get back there next year, hopefully with more snow.
> 
> One thing that did rub me the wrong way was that the liftie had a tip jar set up. I have never seen that anywhere before and as much as I appriciate the job a liftie does, I don't really view it as a tippable position. Anyone else see this before?



I know people who tip lifties at the end of the season.  But I've never seen a tip jar.


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## amf (Mar 17, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> I know people who tip lifties at the end of the season.  But I've never seen a tip jar.


Its for the music. Put in a request  and leave a tip when they play it.


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## slatham (Mar 17, 2016)

Dave is good guy if little moody sometimes. He deserves a tip. I would give him one if I had skied there this year. The question is, will I get a chance??????


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## VTKilarney (Mar 17, 2016)

slatham said:


> Dave is good guy if little moody sometimes. He deserves a tip. I would give him one if I had skied there this year. The question is, will I get a chance??????



I'm not trying to be confrontational, but merely out of curiosity, why would this particular lift attendant be worthy of a tip jar if 99.999% of other lift attendants don't have one?  Or were you referring to an end of season tip?  I've never heard of an end of season tip, but since it is not the product of an actual actual request, I find the concept to be much less objectionable.  

I've always preferred the payment of a living wage in lieu of a sub-standard wage plus tips.  Japan, for example, has arguably the best customer service in the world and is not a tipping culture.


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## slatham (Mar 17, 2016)

End of season. 

Because he is really the one and only lift attendant at a friendlier, laid back, living on a shoestring kinda area. I mean I know his name and he does not wear a name tag! And I like his music.

But yeah other than Dave I would not really think of it. Again though, its because even at my home mountain I do not know them very well.


----------



## VTKilarney (Mar 17, 2016)

Sounds like a heck of a guy.  Magic is lucky to have him.


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## HD333 (Mar 17, 2016)

The one time I rode at Magic Dave was one of the bright spots. 
When I took a break for lunch after I went back out he realized I had been gone and asked what I had for lunch and how it was. Seems like a good good no nonsense kind of guy. 


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## lotsarocks (Mar 21, 2016)

You know its pretty bad at magic if Dave is the bright spot. We love the guy but can't imagine him being described as such. We do tip him when the jar is out. Can't imagine what he gets paid.


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## slatham (Mar 26, 2016)

Switching gears to the original question, anyone know what the heck is going on? Did Black get finished/inspected? If not, can it be done this spring or is it history? Ownership changes? Please tell me Rob and Tom have come to their senses and are willing to sell. Lord knows they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they cannot run a ski area. Is the "investor group" of last summer still out there? Tell me there's hope!


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 27, 2016)

slatham said:


> Switching gears to the original question, anyone know what the heck is going on? Did Black get finished/inspected? If not, can it be done this spring or is it history? Ownership changes? Please tell me Rob and Tom have come to their senses and are willing to sell. Lord knows they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they cannot run a ski area. Is the "investor group" of last summer still out there? Tell me there's hope!



Please- I find myself eyeballing prices, cutoff dates and driving distances for a pass at other mountains. Under current management, Magic has little viability. It breaks even in a great snow year and loses money in a bad one. There is no plan to get out of that death spiral.


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## Sorcerer (Mar 27, 2016)

slatham said:


> Switching gears to the original question, anyone know what the heck is going on? Did Black get finished/inspected? If not, can it be done this spring or is it history? Ownership changes? Please tell me Rob and Tom have come to their senses and are willing to sell. Lord knows they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they cannot run a ski area. Is the "investor group" of last summer still out there? Tell me there's hope!




Work on Black has not been finished although a lot was done up to last week. 
Work has to be done on the top bull wheel- bearings plus - but it can't be done until the ground dries out and they can get a crane up there. There's also other things that have to be done. As I understand it, as long as they don't "stop" working on it, they are covered - endless season. In the meantime work has stopped. 

I heard there were 2 parties interested in buying the mountain. I'm sure no one is rushing to buy it while  lift is still in question. 

The biggest problem with Rob and Tom is that they don't realize how incompetent they are. 

PS Rob's Upper Pass Lodge was sold at the Londonderry tax sale last week. I think one of his cronies actually "bought" it for taxes due. Rob has a year to pay what's due to reclaim it.


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## jrmagic (Mar 27, 2016)

He will reclaim it just like he did the last time it went to tax sale which he used to get rid of his equity partners  who brought in the capital to fully refurbish the place. Real nice guy right?


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## Sorcerer (Mar 28, 2016)

jrmagic said:


> He will reclaim it just like he did the last time it went to tax sale which he used to get rid of his equity partners  who brought in the capital to fully refurbish the place. Real nice guy right?



Who's he going to stiff this time?


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 28, 2016)

Attempting an ounce of positive here....X-post from TGR.

The annual "still skiable?"  I'll go for a walk & see.  Bring my skis even.  


West side trees still a go.







Broomstick holding strong.  I did not ski it.




Skiable from the bullwheel again this year.




Hey, others are up here too.  Magicsnowboard, MNIAW & friends.






The Medium glacier remains......


One more.  you bet.  Yours truly & DoWork.  Thanks for the lift Jay














DoWork












LadyDoWork














Chauffeur Jay likes it.






Somehow i'd like to think we make the best of it.








Easter with friends on the lawn. End/  
*Sry for so many pics.  1st ones i took all season i think.


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## Tin (Mar 28, 2016)

Enjoy all the pics you have Rusty! Nice to see some good going on up there!


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## snoseek (Mar 29, 2016)

I dont personally know any of you magic folk but i have a feeling you guys know how to have a good time!

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## RustyGroomer (Mar 29, 2016)

snoseek said:


> I dont personally know any of you magic folk but i have a feeling you guys know how to have a good time!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk



Thank you! I take that as a big compliment.  I like to think we're pretty good @ having fun.  I skied Stratton Friday.  Okemo Saturday.  Magic Sunday.  Best day by far happened above.  Such a good day.


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## jrmagic (Mar 29, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Attempting an ounce of positive here....X-post from TGR.
> 
> The annual "still skiable?"  I'll go for a walk & see.  Bring my skis even.
> 
> ...



Bummed I couldn't make it by glad to see you all having a blast.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 29, 2016)

Good stuff RG...some of it looks similar to my trip out to Tucson for baseball


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## jrmagic (Mar 29, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Good stuff RG...some of it looks similar to my trip out to Tucson for baseball
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Obviously you're referring to the snowmobiles.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 29, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Good stuff RG...some of it looks similar to my trip out to Tucson for baseball
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




Haha.  Take a walk this week.  Medium is still in great shape.  Skied right from the bullwheel to picnic table on Sunshine Corner.  Many times after finding the sled crew.  My arms are hanging like i pitched a double header today.


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## slatham (Mar 29, 2016)

Didn't ski Magic this winter - or whatever it was. I think Dr Jeff had it right - a continuous stretch of Novembers. If ever there was justification for a mulligan. I just hope the management situation resolves itself.......


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## drjeff (Mar 29, 2016)

slatham said:


> Didn't ski Magic this winter - or whatever it was. I think Dr Jeff had it right - a continuous stretch of Novembers. If ever there was justification for a mulligan. I just hope the management situation resolves itself.......



It wasn't me who made that spot on assessment of the winter being a continuous stretch of Novembers! I gotta give credit for that PERFECT assessment to whomever said it though!


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 31, 2016)

This thread has been aptly named for almost 2 years now.  But I think the Burke thread should be re-named "WTF is going on at Burke?"

Good lord...


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## BeachCoach (Apr 3, 2016)

Update:
As of last thursday/friday the water & sewer has been shut off at the base lodge at Magic.
I heard from a reliable source that the power will be off as well on thursday April 7th...ugh
<sigh>


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## yeggous (Apr 3, 2016)

BeachCoach said:


> Update:
> As of last thursday/friday the water & sewer has been shut off at the base lodge at Magic.
> I heard from a reliable source that the power will be off as well on thursday April 7th...ugh
> <sigh>



At least with the water off they won't have to worry about frozen pipes.


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## sull1102 (Apr 3, 2016)

God this keeps getting worse. Any more info?


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 4, 2016)

Was shutting the water/sewer off seasonally something normal?Cant understand why one would need to do that for summer.At the very least I've never heard of shutting off the sewer.If there is no water then.....


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## Sorcerer (Apr 4, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> Was shutting the water/sewer off seasonally something normal?Cant understand why one would need to do that for summer.At the very least I've never heard of shutting off the sewer.If there is no water then.....



I would guess the power was shut off. The mountain has it's own well. The sewer is a gravity system so it probably works with water running unless the mountain is so far behind paying for the service that it was plugged shut.


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## slatham (Apr 4, 2016)

I have heard of them turning the power off before, but was under the impression it was a separate power supply to the lifts that wasn't needed for many months. I would expect them to need/want power for at least July/August for BLT and Timber Quest.

Or should I be cynical and speculate that its being turned off by GMP due to unpaid bills? Maybe they didn't pay their taxes either and it will go to tax sale? If only........


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## benski (Apr 4, 2016)

slatham said:


> I have heard of them turning the power off before, but was under the impression it was a separate power supply to the lifts that wasn't needed for many months. I would expect them to need/want power for at least July/August for BLT and Timber Quest.
> 
> Or should I be cynical and speculate that its being turned off by GMP due to unpaid bills? Maybe they didn't pay their taxes either and it will go to tax sale? If only........


Why would they leave power on to something they aren't using.


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## yeggous (Apr 4, 2016)

benski said:


> Why would they leave power on to something they aren't using.



Short answer: so that you can use it if needed / desired. If you want to save usage, just throw the breaker switch. Why disconnect service? How much could that really save?


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 4, 2016)

I guess this has the implication that they are throwing in the towel on Black. They can't run it for inspection with no power and they were on some sort of deadline for the inspection.


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 4, 2016)

Hopefully, it's more like TB and that jersey jackass are throwing in the towel and finally decided to check their ego's and sell.  For the Magic faithful I hope so.


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## MMP (Apr 4, 2016)

Faithful. Good one. That ship sailed 


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## Magicsnowboard (Apr 4, 2016)

There are three power connections, or at least separate meters. One for the sign, one for the lodge and shop, one for the lifts. You would not shut them off except for non-payment. There are connection fees which out weigh the cost of any savings from having everything totally off. Sewer is a similar issue. You would keep paying the fee as the connection fees are set substantially high to discourage that sort of practice. 


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 4, 2016)

You know how much your area's reputation was hurt this season when "Magic" is used to describe what Q Burke is now doing to some of its Facebook posters...#banning #deleting


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## Do Work (Apr 5, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> I guess this has the implication that they are throwing in the towel on Black. They can't run it for inspection with no power and they were on some sort of deadline for the inspection.





Lol.  I'm throwing in the towel on explaining this ad nauseum...  They can run the pony motors to do all the fixes and run inspection when they have full power again.  As much as it is silly that they let the power lapse in the summer, that's been a regular occurrence for over a decade fwiw.  Whaaaaaatever.  

I'm just going to say that I honestly hope that *any goddam party* can get TB/RL to open their fucking eyes and come to an agreement soon and this mountain changes hands so we can treat Magic with the care she deserves...  Also so I don't go on an internet killing spree and cyber-bludgeon people for repeating dumb shit about things they clearly have no direct knowledge of, exacerbating confusion and panic when we already have plenty of both.  

Cheers


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## AdironRider (Apr 5, 2016)

Dude, getting the power shut off is not good no matter how you slice it.


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## MMP (Apr 5, 2016)

Flags are specfuckintacular 


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## Do Work (Apr 5, 2016)

AdironRider said:


> Dude, getting the power shut off is not good no matter how you slice it.





Thank you for repeating what I just said in different words.  It's sort of like agreement, except you get to go home feeling even more awesome about yourself than you already do!  :beer:


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## Tin (Apr 5, 2016)

stoke!


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 5, 2016)

Talked with the state inspector. Good news, they are giving Black more time to be worked on this summer. So no "deadline".


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## VTKilarney (Apr 5, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Talked with the state inspector. Good news, they are giving Black more time to be worked on this summer. So no "deadline".



That's excellent news!


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## PearlJam09 (Apr 5, 2016)

Looking forward to those two filing for more extensions, attempting to sell season passes so they can afford to fix things and do summer maintenance, nobody buying them, and them looking at each other like it was the other ones fault. Let's hope they come to their senses quickly and sell so that we don't have to put up with another year of their mismanagement.


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 5, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> You know how much your area's reputation was hurt this season when "Magic" is used to describe what Q Burke is now doing to some of its Facebook posters...#banning #deleting
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



_"16-17 WTF Happened @ Magic?"
_


MMP said:


> Flags are specfuckintacular
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Bent


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## benski (Apr 5, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> Looking forward to those two filing for more extensions, attempting to sell season passes so they can afford to fix things and do summer maintenance, nobody buying them, and them looking at each other like it was the other ones fault. Let's hope they come to their senses quickly and sell so that we don't have to put up with another year of their mismanagement.



They should sell passes for future years. Can't hurt to sell 2017/2018 passes at a slightly lower price than they intend to sell them early season next year, with he promise that the money goes to improvements and guaranteeing these pass holders the lowest rate. Worst thing that happens is nobody takes it or the passes go for slightly less than they would have had they waited till spring 2017 to sell them. If people take it they get more capital for this summer.


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 5, 2016)

They've used up far too many promises.


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## PearlJam09 (Apr 5, 2016)

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."  Any passholder from previous years that is considering a pass for the upcoming year can just mail their money to me. I guarantee you'll get more for your money than if you send it to TB/RL.


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 5, 2016)

benski said:


> They should sell passes for future years. Can't hurt to sell 2017/2018 passes at a slightly lower price than they intend to sell them early season next year, with he promise that the money goes to improvements and guaranteeing these pass holders the lowest rate. Worst thing that happens is nobody takes it or the passes go for slightly less than they would have had they waited till spring 2017 to sell them. If people take it they get more capital for this summer.



For that matter ... sell lifetime passes?  Seriously?  Anyone buying a pass at Magic under this management, with their track record of incompetence, deserves whatever happens or more likely what doesn't happen!  Foolish.  And so sad.


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## yeggous (Apr 5, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> For that matter ... sell lifetime passes?  Seriously?  Anyone buying a pass at Magic under this management, with their track record of incompetence, deserves whatever happens or more likely what doesn't happen!  Foolish.  And so sad.



+1


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 5, 2016)

Hard to sell passes if you don't even exist legally.

The Vermont Secretary of State site shows the business status of TB's ski area operating company (Magic Mountain Resorts) and RL's/TB's ski area ownership company (Magic Mountain Management) both as recently  TERMINATED" as of this month.






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## MEtoVTSkier (Apr 5, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Hard to sell passes if you don't even exist legally.
> 
> The Vermont Secretary of State site shows the business status of TB's ski area operating company (Magic Mountain Resorts) and RL's/TB's ski area ownership company (Magic Mountain Management) both as recently  TERMINATED" as of this month.



Hopefully that means a major upcoming change...


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## lotsarocks (Apr 5, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Hard to sell passes if you don't even exist legally.
> 
> The Vermont Secretary of State site shows the business status of TB's ski area operating company (Magic Mountain Resorts) and RL's/TB's ski area ownership company (Magic Mountain Management) both as recently  TERMINATED" as of this month.
> 
> ...


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 5, 2016)

^^^ fingers crossed


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## slatham (Apr 5, 2016)

May the gods be with a change of ownership. And I hope its who I hope it is :wink:


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## Wheeler (Apr 5, 2016)

Everything is a mystery and nothing makes sense. 

Why would they terminate both entities (MMM and MMR) on Friday?! 

While outside electricity is usually shut off this time of year, why were they willing to let it lapse inside the lodge too?

And while black chair has extension, unless someone comes up with cash, I don't think anyone is going to be working on it. 

Although sewer was just shut off, it has now been paid and can be reconnected. Why did Rob bother paying that belatedly?

Hard to understand the plan.

They need to sell. They need to realize that their balance sheet going forward is unfavorable.


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## Abominable (Apr 7, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."  Any passholder from previous years that is considering a pass for the upcoming year can just mail their money to me. I guarantee you'll get more for your money than if you send it to TB/RL.


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## BlueTrails (Apr 7, 2016)

The 'terminations' took place on April 1st, so maybe it's just a joke on us.  Hahaha!

April 1 is also the beginning of the 2nd qtr, and seeing that no papers were filed, it was probably an 'automatic termination' by the VT SOS, which happens when your corp or llc is somehow out of compliance, such as no annual report or other minor issues. 

MMM holds the deed so you can't sell while 'Terminated' so it makes no sense other than a VT SOS administrative hand slap.

Lift power is separate and is always shutoff after the season.  There is a monthly connection fee and peanuts matter in this case.

Sewer is gravity feed to the treatment facility which services all the circle properties.  I doubt sewer is off.


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## JaneGibb (Apr 7, 2016)

Doesn't sound good with cost above revenue. Hopefully you guys manage to go through this hardship


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## MMP (Apr 8, 2016)

JaneGibb said:


> Doesn't sound good with cost above revenue



Harvard Business School?


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 8, 2016)

It's a classic high-flying Silicon Valley start-up business model there...


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## NYDB (Apr 8, 2016)

Current management runs It as a loss leader for BLT


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## mbedle (Apr 8, 2016)

So, both the mortgagee and the operator LLCs have been terminated. That would transfer full ownership back to the Nelson family, unless there are other mortgages out there that used the property as collateral. I'm thinking that would also put most debt (tax, water, electric), back on the property owners, but would allow them to move forward with selling the property. Not sure how much TK or RL paid the Nelsons over the 15 years, but would think it would be enough to cover the outstanding debt, plus some profit. Sad part it, I highly doubt any buyer would touch this place with a 10 foot pole.


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## telemike (Apr 9, 2016)

Anyone see this?

www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=419


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## VTKilarney (Apr 9, 2016)

Not paying October, 2015 taxes is not a good sign.  Time for a quick sale.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2016)

No liability insurance? Wow that is a big gamble. Also the fact that they have not paid the taxes for last year is a huge red flag. It was sad to read that they used the pass proceeds to pay off debt from the previous season, which should've been a good season. Hate to say it folks but I think the fat lady is singing on this one.


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 9, 2016)

This quote from the article is not good either:

When reached for comment this week, Geoff Hathaway said, "Despite our interest in putting Magic Mountain on a better long term path, there has been little interest or concrete discussions recently with the principals at Magic Mountain Management LLC."


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## yeggous (Apr 9, 2016)

Nice picture of the flags!


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## steamboat1 (Apr 9, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Nice picture of the flags!


You can thank Billski for the flags. The A-Zone & Magic crew gave him a lot of flack for doing that. Bunch of A-holes, but we knew that.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> You can thank Billski for the flags. The A-Zone & Magic crew gave him a lot of flack for doing that. Bunch of A-holes, but we knew that.



If you think Alpinezone members are a bunch of A-holes, why do you continue to participate in these forums?

If you think the Magic crew are all A-holes, why do you continue to post in this thread?

One thing I can tell you is I've skied with probably close to 100 different members of this forum. Not one of them has been an A-hole. 

I haven't made it over to Magic in years. Was hoping to this year. I bought a voucher and the weather just didn't work out. Everyone I talk to says the Magic crew are awesome guys and a blast to ski and party with.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> You can thank Billski for the flags. The A-Zone & Magic crew gave him a lot of flack for doing that. Bunch of A-holes, but we knew that.



Just cannot help yourself, can you?


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## steamboat1 (Apr 9, 2016)

:grin:


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## telemike (Apr 10, 2016)

It's just a sad situation. I knew a year like this would put the hurts on some of the lesser mountains.
I hope someone can make the place work. It is some of the best skiing in so. Vt.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 10, 2016)

telemike said:


> It's just a sad situation. I knew a year like this would put the hurts on some of the lesser mountains.
> I hope someone can make the place work. It is some of the best skiing in so. Vt.



+ 1


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## BlueTrails (Apr 10, 2016)

JS never carried liability insurance... so this is just a continuation of past practice.

Not paying taxes until a later date is just a business decision.  No big deal.

I don't think there is going to be any sale.  They continue to work on Black as that does seem to be the priority.  I expect season passes to go on sale in June.  Notice Hathaway says no contact with current owners.


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 10, 2016)

No sale no business.  Buy those season passes elsewhere.  Make a stand Magic faithful.  Enough is enough.


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## gmcunni (Apr 10, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> No sale no business.  Buy those season passes elsewhere.  Make a stand Magic faithful.  Enough is enough.



i've no dog in this race but wondering.. if the faithful take a stand where will they ski next year? which is the "next best" option?  do you wait and wait to see that happens @ magic or do you buy now at another mountain to get their best price?


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## PearlJam09 (Apr 11, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> i've no dog in this race but wondering.. if the faithful take a stand where will they ski next year? which is the "next best" option?  do you wait and wait to see that happens @ magic or do you buy now at another mountain to get their best price?



A lot of people are buying now.  Bromley, Stratton, Snow.


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## telemike (Apr 11, 2016)

I was thinking about getting a pass but considering the uncertainty and about an hour drive, probably not. I was seconds from buying the blackout pass last fall
but when I went to do it they had sold out. Turns out I wouldn't have got much use out of it. I did pick up one of those Ragged mtn passes for $249 :smile:


----------



## slatham (Apr 12, 2016)

As I have stated before, I will not buy my pass and family vouchers unless there is a change in ownership/management. I recommend all the season pass holders do the same. I realize this is a much harder action to take for those who have places on the mountain, though it would be a more powerful message coming from them.

I just hope a change in management occurs.


----------



## skithetrees (Apr 12, 2016)

I suspect it is looking more and more likely there will be a change in ownership.


----------



## Sorcerer (Apr 12, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> I suspect it is looking more and more likely there will be a change in ownership.



Is this based on anything tangible or are you just hoping?


----------



## skithetrees (Apr 12, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> Is this based on anything tangible or are you just hoping?



Tangible in the sense that someone told me "we are buying the mountain," no. Tangible in the sense that moves are being made that I would make if I were to buy the mountain, yes. As far as timeline, I can't say. But my gut tells me it is looking increasingly likely something will happen. That said, we have all been around this road before. So don't buy a pass on my account!  I was optimistic Tom would do a good job!  For what it's worth, i still think he is a good guy who just got in way over his head.


----------



## gmcunni (Apr 12, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> So don't buy a pass on my account!  I was optimistic Tom would do a good job!  For what it's worth, i still think he is a good guy who just got in way over his head.



are you buying now? (or whenever they go on sale for next season)


----------



## MMP (Apr 12, 2016)

skithetrees said:


> For what it's worth, i still think he is a good guy who just got in way over his head.



I think you're wrong


----------



## skithetrees (Apr 12, 2016)

MMP said:


> I think you're wrong



Fair enough. I knew him on a personal level before the last few years and that is what I base my opinion on. I think things for a bit desperate and bad choices were made. Not here to debate that though. 

As to the pass question, hate myself for it, but probably waiting.


----------



## MMP (Apr 12, 2016)

He's an embarrassment. 


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## Magicsnowboard (Apr 12, 2016)

slatham said:


> As I have stated before, I will not buy my pass and family vouchers unless there is a change in ownership/management. I recommend all the season pass holders do the same. I realize this is a much harder action to take for those who have places on the mountain, though it would be a more powerful message coming from them.
> 
> I just hope a change in management occurs.



I am also not buying a pass for me or my wife. We will be renting in the circle again. We will be skiing Bromley or Stratton. I will be ordering a new pair of skins. 


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 13, 2016)

i'm holding strong with no pass until I see a change. Glad to hear you guys are hanging in the Circle.  They'll be some uphiil for sure.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> i'm holding strong with no pass until I see a change. Glad to hear you guys are hanging in the Circle.  They'll be some uphiil for sure.



So sorry for you folks.  Burke folks are having similar issues.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Apr 14, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> So sorry for you folks.  Burke folks are having similar issues.



Thank you but the older i get the more i realize whining about where i'm going to buy my season pass is a fortunate problem to have.


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 14, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Thank you but the older i get the more i realize whining about where i'm going to buy my season pass is a fortunate problem to have.



This!!  

I don't think anyone in my family (approximately 15 passes)will be buying until something changes.


----------



## lotsarocks (Apr 14, 2016)

Our 3 passes will be bought elsewhere this season regardless what happens. Then  we will see if things change for the better. 
 It is tough having 1st world problems.


----------



## ScottySkis (Apr 22, 2016)

They just posted thi.s on Facebookcrappy

http://magicmtn.com/newsroom.php

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From:*Magic Mountain Management LLC*and*SKI MAGIC LLC
For Immediate Release 4/22/2016:
Magic Mountain Management LLC, the current entity owning Magic Mountain Ski Area, has again entered into formal negotiations with SKI MAGIC LLC for the purchase of the ski area, and both parties have signed a Letter of Intent outlining the terms of such purchase. The next phase is to conclude a signed Asset Purchase and Sale agreement followed by due diligence and a transaction closing. Both parties have agreed to move as rapidly as possible so as to begin the extensive work necessary on both the lifts and snow-making systems to make positive infrastructure improvements for the 2016-17 season. It is anticipated that SKI MAGIC LLC would take over ownership and operations by late June or early July. But, as with any business transaction, there is always some uncertainty. Both parties will do their best to keep Magic customers informed of progress along the way.

*


----------



## WoodCore (Apr 22, 2016)

http://magicmtn.com/newsroom.php

Here we go again.


----------



## skifasttakechances (Apr 22, 2016)

So who is Ski Magic?


----------



## yeggous (Apr 22, 2016)

I'm not holding my breath. Good luck.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 22, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> So who is Ski Magic?



SKI MAGIC LLC is a group of investors, including a number of Magic skiers and area homeowners, committed to significant infrastructure investment in proportion to the business opportunity of a smaller ski area surrounded by major corporate resorts. Ski MAGIC LLC is committed to keeping what makes Magic special: unmatched ski terrain in southern Vermont; a “throwback” skiing experience without the soul-crushing crowds found at mega-resorts; and, most importantly, a laid-back, welcoming ski community “vibe”—all while providing new capital to turnaround what has held it back over the years: reliable snow-making and lifts over a longer season. The focus will be on the ski product. Pure and simple.


----------



## yeggous (Apr 22, 2016)

I noticed they are promising to offer a pass that is cheaper than the surrounding mountains. Do we really think they are going to compete with the Peaks Pass? Or do they mean Bromley and Stratton?


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## gmcunni (Apr 22, 2016)

SKI MAGIC LLC 

https://www.vtsosonline.com/online/BusinessInquire/BusinessInformation?businessID=303086


----------



## lotsarocks (Apr 22, 2016)

That is great to hear. Best of luck to Geoff


----------



## gmcunni (Apr 22, 2016)

is that the same group as last summer?


----------



## xwhaler (Apr 22, 2016)

yeggous said:


> I noticed they are promising to offer a pass that is cheaper than the surrounding mountains. Do we really think they are going to compete with the Peaks Pass? Or do they mean Bromley and Stratton?



I think they have to be under Peaks' $599 offering....not as a way to compete against the pass but just because to me $599 is on the high end for what Magic offers as a 4 day/week operation.

To me they should be looking at Pico's $399 pass (no blackouts) as a comparable starting point given the similarities in their operating models.

A Ragged type offering at $249 (now $279) would get some attention from folks looking to supplement another pass with Magic.


----------



## WoodCore (Apr 22, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> is that the same group as last summer?




Yes, I believe so.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Apr 22, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> That is great to hear. Best of luck to Geoff



Thanks! A little luck would be most welcome, but you can never count on it either


----------



## prsboogie (Apr 22, 2016)

I wonder if the new mgt will honor my family pack I was never able to use this season!! Hope for all involved the goes through


----------



## lotsarocks (Apr 22, 2016)

Yah a good plan, a lot of hard work and utilizing the awesome community at magic properly will get where you need to be.


----------



## gmcunni (Apr 22, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> is that the same group as last summer?





WoodCore said:


> Yes, I believe so.



hopefully the buyers are getting a better price this summer


----------



## gmcunni (Apr 22, 2016)

lotsarocks said:


> That is great to hear. Best of luck to Geoff





JamaicaMan said:


> Thanks! A little luck would be most welcome, but you can never count on it either



you are Geoff?


----------



## ss20 (Apr 22, 2016)

...and the trainwreck continues.  The new slogan should be "At least we're not Saddleback or Burke!".  

Magic needs more capital than a small community group will ever be able to provide.  Don't see how they'll get much done at all.  Magic needs a lot of $$$, and anyone that says otherwise is talking through their a$$.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 22, 2016)

ss20 said:


> ...and the trainwreck continues.  The new slogan should be "At least we're not Saddleback or Burke!".
> 
> Magic needs more capital than a small community group will ever be able to provide.  Don't see how they'll get much done at all.  Magic needs a lot of $$$, and anyone that says otherwise is talking through their a$$.



Depends on what the goals are for the ownership.  Take a look at a place like Black Mountain in NH. They've kept that place going on a shoe string budget for decades.  There are numerous other areas doing the same.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Apr 22, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> you are Geoff?



Geoff I am.


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## skifree (Apr 22, 2016)

green eggs and ham

godspeed


----------



## JamaicaMan (Apr 22, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Depends on what the goals are for the ownership.  Take a look at a place like Black Mountain in NH. They've kept that place going on a shoe string budget for decades.  There are numerous other areas doing the same.



Deal needs to get done first. But this is not simply "buying" the mountain. The Ski Magic group was put together with a 5-year business plan to not just purchase but to invest capital into the ski area to improve the product (snowmaking and lifts) so that it becomes a viable business with a growing customer base. The capital invested will make a significant difference in the quality of product but this is NOT an EB-5 play trying to transform a region. We are trying to take all that is good about Magic and make it much more reliable and higher quality throughout a longer season. Customers need more access to Magic Mountain--the skiing--even in a winter as crappy as this last one. If we focus our resources against that goal we believe Magic can be successful in its industry niche. Investment and growth will be in proportion to the specific opportunity and in keeping with the character of the ski area and what makes skiing there special.


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 22, 2016)

^^^ good luck and hope you and your group are successful.  Magic and the faithful deserve a real chance.


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## sull1102 (Apr 22, 2016)

Good luck, hope to enjoy the mountain next year. In that 5 year plan can you talk more about lifts? Any plans to replace or simply repair what is in place?


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 22, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> Good luck, hope to enjoy the mountain next year. In that 5 year plan can you talk more about lifts? Any plans to replace or simply repair what is in place?



Short term: repair summit lifts and add new carpet for learning/beginner area. The plan also had mid and long-term options which will be evaluated. But, first, let's get the purchase agreement done, ok?


----------



## skifree (Apr 22, 2016)

If this gets done I'm in for a pass


----------



## Savemeasammy (Apr 22, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> let's get the purchase agreement done, ok?



Good luck.  I hope it goes goes well.  Magic is a special place, and it deserves to be run competently.  


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## gmcunni (Apr 22, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Good luck.  I hope it goes goes well.  Magic is a special place, and it deserves to be run competently.


+1


----------



## slatham (Apr 22, 2016)

Geoff has a credible plan but it needs to get done so fingers crossed. If it does get done, he will also need some luck, and more importantly our help. If this deal happens the faithful, their friends, acquaintances, distant relatives, etc will have to show support big time. This must be successful and we can all play a big part in making it happen. That is unless all you want to ski is Stratton and Okemo....


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 22, 2016)

slatham said:


> Geoff has a credible plan but it needs to get done so fingers crossed. If it does get done, he will also need some luck, and more importantly our help. If this deal happens the faithful, their friends, acquaintances, distant relatives, etc will have to show support big time. This must be successful and we can all play a big part in making it happen. That is unless all you want to ski is Stratton and Okemo....



Talk to Nick.....AZ Summit 8.0.B 
Never been there but sounds like great terrain...With snow!


----------



## slatham (Apr 22, 2016)

-Siliconebobsquarepants

If this transaction happens then you MUST come ski Magic next season!


----------



## prsboogie (Apr 22, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Talk to Nick.....AZ Summit 8.0.B
> Never been there but sounds like great terrain...With snow!



Lease out the Upper Pass Inn for the weekend for an AZ Summit!! That would be a great weekend!!!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Apr 22, 2016)

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## gmcunni (Apr 22, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Lease out the Upper Pass Inn for the weekend for an AZ Summit!! That would be a great weekend!!!



what is the relationship between UPI and MM?


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## prsboogie (Apr 22, 2016)

Location, possible mutual ownership. Others on here would know! 

RG or DW to the red phone!!


----------



## xwhaler (Apr 23, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Lease out the Upper Pass Inn for the weekend for an AZ Summit!! That would be a great weekend!!!



+1.   I've thought for a while that this would be a great gathering.   Much easier than Loaf for the majority of folks


----------



## prsboogie (Apr 23, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> +1.   I've thought for a while that this would be a great gathering.   Much easier than Loaf for the majority of folks



I think it should be in addition to SL. Obviously weather permitting, something in early March for the Loaf and second week of February for Magic.  

Or we could leave things alone and just have a mini-Magic-summit!!


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> I wonder if the new mgt will honor my family pack I was never able to use this season!!



If so they're fucking idiots.


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

ss20 said:


> ...and the trainwreck continues.  The new slogan should be "At least we're not Saddleback or Burke!".
> 
> Magic needs more capital than a small community group will ever be able to provide.  Don't see how they'll get much done at all.  Magic needs a lot of $$$, and anyone that says otherwise is talking through their a$$.



Anyone counting the money of people they don't know is definitely talking out of their ass.


----------



## prsboogie (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> If so they're fucking idiots.



I guess humor is lost on you


----------



## ss20 (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> Anyone counting the money of people they don't know is definitely talking out of their ass.



So you want to believe that this group has enough money lying around to re-build two lifts and an entire snowmaking system?  That's cool... you believe in Bigfoot as well?

The odds that these are 1%ers looking to invest in Magic is 1%.


----------



## Newpylong (Apr 23, 2016)

This is welcomed news. I hope they have deep pockets and know what they're getting into. It's a lot easier to armchair operate a ski area than to actually do it.


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

ss20 said:


> So you want to believe that this group has enough money lying around to re-build two lifts and an entire snowmaking system?  That's cool... you believe in Bigfoot as well?
> 
> The odds that these are 1%ers looking to invest in Magic is 1%.



What I believe is that YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. What people have, are willing to invest, or what is needed are things that you know nothing about. So shut the fuck up. Genius. 

One thing I know is that people that have nothing can't imagine what others do have (lying around as you say). I don't know if you see yourself here, but my guess is you do. 

Calling people making an investment as a group with no clue who or what or when or how much is something you call a "train wreck" ?  So smart. 

Fuck off.


----------



## Edd (Apr 23, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> It's a lot easier to armchair operate a ski area than to actually do it.



This forum proves that on a daily basis.


----------



## sull1102 (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> What I believe is that YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. What people have, are willing to invest, or what is needed are things that you know nothing about. So shut the fuck up. Genius.
> 
> One thing I know is that people that have nothing can't imagine what others do have (lying around as you say). I don't know if you see yourself here, but my guess is you do.
> 
> ...



Dude YOU have gotta get your panties out of a bunch, man. If YOU don't like what people are saying about you're little group then why read it? This new group has been involved with the mountain in one way or another for the better part of the last five years at least. Can you blame anyone at all for thinking this might also not be the group that pulls it off?


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> What I believe is that YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. What people have, are willing to invest, or what is needed are things that you know nothing about. So shut the fuck up. Genius.
> 
> One thing I know is that people that have nothing can't imagine what others do have (lying around as you say). I don't know if you see yourself here, but my guess is you do.
> 
> ...



I know that this forum is very lightly moderated, but tirades like this are not at all appropriate.  Just as you are free to share your opinion, others should be free to share theirs without being the recipient of your verbal abuse.


----------



## Do Work (Apr 23, 2016)

ss20 said:


> So you want to believe that this group has enough money lying around to re-build two lifts and an entire snowmaking system?  That's cool.




I do!  


I can't say how excited I am to see a new tone about the deal by the sellers.  It makes a big difference.  When this changes hands, look for a BIG boost in not only sales but participation and that all-important community.  Believe me when I say Magic has everything it needs to succeed, but it's been held back by factors which will largely be negated by the new team.  I can't wait to do everything in my power to help them make the biggest impact possible and I know I'm not alone!  

People can naysay all they want IMO.  More wind in the sails!


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> Dude YOU have gotta get your panties out of a bunch, man. If YOU don't like what people are saying about you're little group then why read it? This new group has been involved with the mountain in one way or another for the better part of the last five years at least. Can you blame anyone at all for thinking this might also not be the group that pulls it off?



Yah Shane. I can.


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I know that this forum is very lightly moderated, but tirades like this are not at all appropriate.  Just as you are free to share your opinion, others should be free to share theirs without being the recipient of your verbal abuse.



What's the opposite of above me?


----------



## tumbler (Apr 23, 2016)

C





MMP said:


> What I believe is that YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. What people have, are willing to invest, or what is needed are things that you know nothing about. So shut the fuck up. Genius.
> 
> One thing I know is that people that have nothing can't imagine what others do have (lying around as you say). I don't know if you see yourself here, but my guess is you do.
> 
> ...



Yo bro. I thought you just stuck to bitching about flags. Lighten up Francis


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

tumbler said:


> C
> 
> Yo bro. I thought you just stuck to bitching about flags. Lighten up Francis



Ain't your bro chief


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> What's the opposite of above me?



Underneath me.  Next question.


----------



## skifasttakechances (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP are you off your meds again?!  Touchy.


----------



## Tin (Apr 23, 2016)

Do Work said:


> I do!
> 
> 
> I can't say how excited I am to see a new tone about the deal by the sellers.  It makes a big difference.  When this changes hands, look for a BIG boost in not only sales but participation and that all-important community.  Believe me when I say Magic has everything it needs to succeed, but it's been held back by factors which will largely be negated by the new team.  I can't wait to do everything in my power to help them make the biggest impact possible and I know I'm not alone!
> ...



Stoke!


----------



## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> MMP are you off your meds again?!  Touchy.



Right wingers got me fired up!! I need a safe space. Haha


----------



## skifasttakechances (Apr 23, 2016)

^^^


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> Right wingers got me fired up!! I need a safe space. *Haha*



It wasn't funny.  Just chill next time.  It'll all be good.


----------



## yeggous (Apr 23, 2016)

But really, what is the plan for the flags? I expect big things.


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## MMP (Apr 23, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> It wasn't funny.  Just chill next time.  It'll all be good.



Fuck off

I hope I don't know you.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> Fuck off
> 
> I hope I don't know you.



The latter is mutual.


----------



## sull1102 (Apr 23, 2016)

LMFAO well this has been entertaining


----------



## slatham (Apr 23, 2016)

Wow, shockingly negative and hostile given we just got the best piece of news on Magic in a long long time. The lack of powder days has really affected us - we're all off our "meds"!!!!

I'm with Do Work - psyched and ready to help out in any way I can.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 23, 2016)

It's definitely good news considering that Magic was teetering on NELSAP territory.


----------



## drjeff (Apr 23, 2016)

There were still a few patches left on the upper mountain that I could see driving back down route 100 after skiing at Killington today!

Too bad the BLT wasn't open this afternoon!! Would of been a perfect afternoon to grab a beer and toast what will hopefully be a new and much better era at Magic! :beer:


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> Right wingers got me fired up!! I need a safe space. Haha



How bout the Women's bathroom I hear it's ok now . 
Although no longer safe place if your a Woman . Love it when lefties eat themselves.

Chill ⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️


----------



## ss20 (Apr 23, 2016)

MMP said:


> What I believe is that YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. What people have, are willing to invest, or what is needed are things that you know nothing about. So shut the fuck up. Genius.
> 
> One thing I know is that people that have nothing can't imagine what others do have (lying around as you say). I don't know if you see yourself here, but my guess is you do.
> 
> ...



I have nothing to rebuttal because you gave me nothing to refute.  You laid down swares and personal insults without mentioning fact.  Where is the money smart guy?  Apparently my scenario is wrong, and you are most certainly right, even though most of these small mountain managements groups fail.  Give me some facts, then I'll shut up.

BTW, your inner Magic Fanboy is showing.  Kind of makes your blind optimism expected yet unwarranted.  Its warrented if you give us facts.  Until then your opinion is as valid as mine.


----------



## skithetrees (Apr 23, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Location, possible mutual ownership. Others on here would know!
> 
> RG or DW to the red phone!!





ss20 said:


> I have nothing to rebuttal because you gave me nothing to refute.  You laid down swares and personal insults without mentioning fact.  Where is the money smart guy?  Apparently my scenario is wrong, and you are most certainly right, even though most of these small mountain managements groups fail.  Give me some facts, then I'll shut up.
> 
> BTW, your inner Magic Fanboy is showing.  Kind of makes your blind optimism expected yet unwarranted.  Its warrented if you give us facts.  Until then your opinion is as valid as mine.



People demand change in management and ownership, get it, and then call said change a train wreck. Lol. What do you want, stenger to come in and buy it?  Good grief, give them a shot first.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 23, 2016)

Nobody knows what the results will be. What we do know is one of the potential buyers is a member of this forum now. 

We should be supporting him and his team instead of speculating failure.


----------



## yeggous (Apr 23, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Nobody knows what the results will be. What we do know is one of the potential buyers is a member of this forum now.
> 
> We should be supporting him and his team instead of speculating failure.



Word. I almost can't believe this reaction.


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----------



## MMP (Apr 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Nobody knows what the results will be. What we do know is one of the potential buyers is a member of this forum now.
> 
> We should be supporting him and his team instead of speculating failure.



A common theme here is that people that can't spell don't know what they're talking about and have no critical thinking skills, and people than can (sometimes) do. 

I have been a vocal critical of business practices at Magic (to the dismay of some good friends at times). Hopefully they allocate some attention to finding professional administration and managers because the hires last year were indefensible. 

Your ad hominem attacks are laughable. Swear words are fun. Fucking dummies.


----------



## MMP (Apr 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> I have nothing to rebuttal because you gave me nothing to refute.  You laid down swares and personal insults without mentioning fact.  Where is the money smart guy?  Apparently my scenario is wrong, and you are most certainly right, even though most of these small mountain managements groups fail.  Give me some facts, then I'll shut up.
> 
> BTW, your inner Magic Fanboy is showing.  Kind of makes your blind optimism expected yet unwarranted.  Its warrented if you give us facts.  Until then your opinion is as valid as mine.



Too dumb to address. You're really dumb Shane.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 24, 2016)

MMP said:


> Your ad hominem attacks are laughable. .



Um? Exactly where was I attacking you?


----------



## MMP (Apr 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Um? Exactly where was I attacking you?



I actually typed "not you DHS" but figured after that first paragraph you would know that last part wasn't for you. Good spelling anyway!


----------



## Savemeasammy (Apr 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Where is the money smart guy?  Apparently my scenario is wrong, and you are most certainly right, even though most of these small mountain managements groups fail.  Give me some facts, then I'll shut up.



Yeah, c'mon MMP...   Stop pretending that this new ownership group hasn't taken you into their confidence and laid out all of the financial details for you to scrutinize...!  Spill it on this public forum for us!




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----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Apr 24, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Word. I almost can't believe this reaction.



Good grief! Really! At least let them complete the sale and start implementing changes before trying to cut the knees out from underneath them!


----------



## JoeB-Z (Apr 24, 2016)

Is there some kind of troll repellent we can spray on this thread? 

We get great news and people who have little or nothing to do with Magic hijack the thread and squabble.

One thing people don't understand is that Magic can run on a shoestring with a little sense. The red lift is fine, the black will get fixed (I have spoken with the inspector and he is very supportive), large sections of the snow making system are fixed (remember Talisman two years ago?). Also the grooming has become quite good. The lodge is good enough. All Magic needs is someone who has a little money and management savvy. Both have been in short supply under the prior leadership.


----------



## MMP (Apr 24, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Yeah, c'mon MMP...   Stop pretending that this new ownership group hasn't taken you into their confidence and laid out all of the financial details for you to scrutinize...!  Spill it on this public forum for us!
> 
> [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]
> 
> ...



I think late in the year the management figured out that expenses exceeded revenues. The plan is to not do that from what Geoff told me at the last board  meeting. 

But you didn't hear it from me. 

My point really is that many people would be surprised at the level of professional accomplishment many of my Magic ski friends have achieved.Though we haven't discussed it I suspect many of them have accumulated decent assets and are high earners. So maybe someone at the right time came along with the right idea and presented it in the right way to the right people. Time will tell. If your natural instinct is to shit on it especially if you are a casual observer, please fuck off.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Apr 24, 2016)

My rooting interest in the success of magic is that MMP still owes my kid a beer.  If Magic doesn't open, I won't be sure how to track him down...


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## tumbler (Apr 24, 2016)

My point really is that many people would be surprised at the level of professional accomplishment many of my Magic ski friends have achieved.Though we haven't discussed it I suspect many of them have accumulated decent assets and are high earners. So maybe someone at the right time came along with the right idea and presented it in the right way to the right people. Time will tell. If your natural instinct is to shit on it especially if you are a casual observer, please fuck off.[/QUOTE]

Call me crazy but these are the type of folks that like to get a return on their investment, not sinking money into an endless black hole of expesenses.  Hope it works out..


----------



## slatham (Apr 24, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Is there some kind of troll repellent we can spray on this thread?
> 
> We get great news and people who have little or nothing to do with Magic hijack the thread and squabble.
> 
> One thing people don't understand is that Magic can run on a shoestring with a little sense. The red lift is fine, the black will get fixed (I have spoken with the inspector and he is very supportive), large sections of the snow making system are fixed (remember Talisman two years ago?). Also the grooming has become quite good. The lodge is good enough. All Magic needs is someone who has a little money and management savvy. Both have been in short supply under the prior leadership.



This is pretty spot on, but.... The difficulty is that you don't know the final cost of fixing Black until it is in fact past inspection, or the rest of the snowmaking system. And you always have the issue that aging infrastructure can give out and often does so at the worst time and causes a large unexpected cost. Then there's the ski seasons like last year when you will not make money and need a reserve in order to open the next season. So there needs to be capital available in order to even operate (survive) on a "shoestring" basis. But I am convinced in all the B-plans I've read and discussions I've had that Magic, during a "normal" season, assuming 2 lifts and snowmaking capability/budget, can be a viable business. Capital is needed, but a key ingredient is at least average management talent......


----------



## jimk (Apr 24, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Deal needs to get done first. But this is not simply "buying" the mountain. The Ski Magic group was put together with a 5-year business plan to not just purchase but to invest capital into the ski area to improve the product (snowmaking and lifts) so that it becomes a viable business with a growing customer base. The capital invested will make a significant difference in the quality of product but this is NOT an EB-5 play trying to transform a region. We are trying to take all that is good about Magic and make it much more reliable and higher quality throughout a longer season. Customers need more access to Magic Mountain--the skiing--even in a winter as crappy as this last one. If we focus our resources against that goal we believe Magic can be successful in its industry niche. Investment and growth will be in proportion to the specific opportunity and in keeping with the character of the ski area and what makes skiing there special.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



OUTSTANDING!  
This board has a reach that is far and wide.  I am down in Virginia.  If you get Magic squared away I will try my best to get up there next winter so I can report on the new regime and spread some love.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 24, 2016)

MMP said:


> I think late in the year the management figured out that expenses exceeded revenues. The plan is to not do that from what Geoff told me at the last board  meeting.
> 
> But you didn't hear it from me.
> 
> My point really is that many people would be surprised at the level of professional accomplishment many of my Magic ski friends have achieved.Though we haven't discussed it I suspect many of them have accumulated decent assets and are high earners. So maybe someone at the right time came along with the right idea and presented it in the right way to the right people. Time will tell. If your natural instinct is to shit on it especially if you are a casual observer, please fuck off.



Nobody is "shitting" on anything. I have seen some people ask some legitimate questions, that's all.  Everyone here wants the mountain to succeed, but everyone here also knows that many people couldn't figure out how to.  There's nothing wrong with wondering what the new management group will do differently.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> ...and the trainwreck continues.  The new slogan should be "At least we're not Saddleback or Burke!".
> 
> Magic needs more capital than a small community group will ever be able to provide.  Don't see how they'll get much done at all.  Magic needs a lot of $$$, and anyone that says otherwise is talking through their a$$.



This indeed was shitting on Magic VTK.  It was dismissing possible positive change before the purchase and sales agreement has even been signed. Calling new ownership a train wreck without even knowing who they are is the very definition of" shitting" on something.

Has MMPs reaction been over the top? Sure.  However toxic opinions often result in toxic responses.

There was absolutely no reason for ss20 to inject negativety with this positive development. Borderline trolling.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> This indeed was shitting on Magic VTK.  It was dismissing possible positive change before the purchase and sales agreement has even been signed. Calling new ownership a train wreck without even knowing who they are is the very definition of" shitting" on something.
> 
> Has MMPs reaction been over the top? Sure.  However toxic opinions often result in toxic responses.
> 
> There was absolutely no reason for ss20 to inject negativety with this positive development. Borderline trolling.



I had forgotten about that one. That wasn't at all constructive.


----------



## MMP (Apr 24, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> Nobody is "shitting" on anything. I have seen some people ask some legitimate questions, that's all.  Everyone here wants the mountain to succeed, but everyone here also knows that many people couldn't figure out how to.  There's nothing wrong with wondering what the new management group will do differently.



I overestimated you.


----------



## sull1102 (Apr 24, 2016)

MMP said:


> Too dumb to address. You're really dumb Shane.



Huh? Did not realize I was responsible for what ss20 writes. (Although his point is valid that many small ski operators do struggle to survive, can't really refute that one). At least now I know! Come on ss20, cut the shit and get on the "everything is awesome" train.

I really do hope this mountain succeeds and that Geoff and his team can do some of the things I heard back in October/November this summer to come back strong for 16/17, so when people want to say how against this mountain I am, they're wrong.


----------



## gmcunni (Apr 24, 2016)

what does a successful Magic Mountain look like?


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## tumbler (Apr 24, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> what does a successful Magic Mountain look like?



It starts with MMP running the marketing dept. "Ski Magic Mountain & GFY"


----------



## Newpylong (Apr 24, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Is there some kind of troll repellent we can spray on this thread?
> 
> We get great news and people who have little or nothing to do with Magic hijack the thread and squabble.
> 
> One thing people don't understand is that Magic can run on a shoestring with a little sense. The red lift is fine, the black will get fixed (I have spoken with the inspector and he is very supportive), large sections of the snow making system are fixed (remember Talisman two years ago?). Also the grooming has become quite good. The lodge is good enough. All Magic needs is someone who has a little money and management savvy. Both have been in short supply under the prior leadership.



I would be careful not to mistake caution for pessimism.

Shoestring is a relative term and I feel many here underestimate costs involved. Aging infrastructure is not cheap to operate or maintain. Making snow is not cheap, especially on the scale many will want to see. Liability insurance is not cheap (hopefully they get it) and neither is Workers Comp. The list goes on and on. These are fixed costs that even if minimalized can be tough pills to swallow. That's just if nothing breaks...unforeseen costs.

Not trying to buzz kill just stating reality. Without insight into the financials of the new owners or their investors so it doesn't make sense to speculate. I wish them the best of luck. I think with the right plan, the right pockets, and a few good winters in a row they can be successful. No one wants to see Magic or any mountain fail


----------



## JoeB-Z (Apr 24, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> I would be careful not to mistake caution for pessimism.
> 
> Shoestring is a relative term and I feel many here underestimate costs involved. Aging infrastructure is not cheap to operate or maintain. Making snow is not cheap, especially on the scale many will want to see. Liability insurance is not cheap (hopefully they get it) and neither is Workers Comp. The list goes on and on. These are fixed costs that even if minimalized can be tough pills to swallow. That's just if nothing breaks...unforeseen costs.
> 
> Not trying to buzz kill just stating reality. Without insight into the financials of the new owners or their investors so it doesn't make sense to speculate. I wish them the best of luck. I think with the right plan, the right pockets, and a few good winters in a row they can be successful. No one wants to see Magic or any mountain fail



Go back to Geoff's announcement. There is a five year business plan. He is a marketing guy which is, if the fundamental (shoestring) issues I mentioned above are met, is the greatest shortcoming. People do not know that Magic still operates! This is not a plan to continue on the same trajectory. My guess is that in a year or so I can't show up at 11AM and park in the first lot. And that third lot down the road will have some use.


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## zoomzoom (Apr 24, 2016)

am hopeful the deal goes through, and that they find someone to make an honest assessment of the infrastucture condition.  this will likely mean an outside entity with cruel honesty.  the lodge is fine. the snowmaking pipes are old/rusty/too small.  the red is well-maintained but lacking spares.  the black is a money-pit.  the mountain crew are the best.  the best!  the best!!


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## Mm2jp1 (Apr 24, 2016)

You guys are all effing trolls except do work.
Do work for pres.


----------



## MMP (Apr 25, 2016)

Mm2jp1 said:


> You guys are all effing trolls except do work.
> Do work for pres.



There's a whole separate thread for you guys that want to fellate DoWork.


----------



## tnt1234 (Apr 25, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> what does a successful Magic Mountain look like?



EB-5 investors, a strong social media presence and waterpark?


----------



## tnt1234 (Apr 25, 2016)

So, I have never been to Magic.  Had a trip booked there this year and cancelled due to lack of snow....

But I sure wish them the best.  The world needs more small, natural snow oriented, shut up and ski kind of places, particularly in southern VT within 4-5 hr drive from my central jersey abode!

Seems to me what Magic needs more than anything is snow....

Best of luck to the new management team and maybe next year we'll make it to Magic!


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## MMP (Apr 25, 2016)

tnt1234 said:


> So, I have never been to Magic.  Had a trip booked there this year and cancelled due to lack of snow....
> 
> But I sure wish them the best.  The world needs more small, natural snow oriented, shut up and ski kind of places, particularly in southern VT within 4-5 hr drive from my central jersey abode!
> 
> ...




It's really fun. Most of the people posting here don't ski there. That seems like a plus to me.

Servicing DoWork is purely optional.


----------



## slatham (Apr 25, 2016)

MMP said:


> It's really fun. Most of the people posting here don't ski there. That seems like a plus to me.
> 
> Servicing DoWork is purely optional.



Just more potential skiers for a revamped Magic to bring in as customers!

Not sure what to make of the Do Work infatuation......


----------



## MMP (Apr 26, 2016)

slatham said:


> Not sure what to make of the Do Work infatuation......



No?? Then you don't know him.


----------



## drjeff (Apr 26, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> what does a successful Magic Mountain look like?



Probably something that by most other industry norms would still be considered "unsuccessful" 

And I'm 100% OK with that! 

Personally,  I'd like to see some fairly reliable snowmaking, maybe just over an additional trail or 2 than they have been able to cover in the past, some reliable, not necessarily brand new lifts (a transplanted "old" lift from another area for the NEEDED beginner terrain for sure), and then get the basic heating system in the lodge dependable.

The proverbial wheel doesn't need to be reinvented with Magic, but that wheel does at least need some basic maintenance!


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 26, 2016)

I picture a successful Magic Mountain as being something similar to Bolton Valley.  It doesn't have to be the biggest or flashiest player in the market.  But it should be an affordable place with reliable lifts.


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## yeggous (Apr 26, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Probably something that by most other industry norms would still be considered "unsuccessful"
> 
> And I'm 100% OK with that!
> 
> ...



I've only skied there once but was struck by a couple of things.

1) Ski patrol was comical at best. The roped trails that were in amazing shape, and were militant about enforcing the ropes. As a Wildcat skier, I was in complete disbelief.

2) That Black lift is scary. It looks like Frankenstein. Time for the scrap heap.

3) The bar is the greatest asset. It's awesome. I'm jealous.

I do remember the lodge being too cold. Turning up the thermostat seems like a small change so I want bust balls there.

Before you advocate for a transplanted chair, go ask Crotched management how they feel that worked out for them. The chair they got from Ascutney has had *constant* mechanical problems and has turned into a money pit. I was talking to one of their ski patrollers this weekend, and we discussed the possibility of their own vertical challenge. He seemed very skeptical that the lift could run consistently fast enough to make this a reality. Apparently they keep the speed dialed back for mechanical reliability reasons. On the flip said, he said their ski patrol is very practiced in lift evacuations.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 26, 2016)

IMO, biggest key to Magic being successful is the average skier being aware it exists.  I'm willing to bet if you drove up the road to  Okemo on a Saturday and asked if they'd consider trying Magic that 90% of them either haven't heard of it or think it's out of business. The other 10% assume it either doesn't have a lot of terrain open or what is open is too challenging.

Magic has a reputation of being a hard core ski area for experts; some call it the MRG of southern VT. That reputation will remove it from consideration by a large number of people. They should market themselves as the Smuggs of Southern VT not the MRG.


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## Tin (Apr 26, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I picture a successful Magic Mountain as being something similar to Bolton Valley.  It doesn't have to be the biggest or flashiest player in the market.  But it should be an affordable place with reliable lifts.



I picture a successful Magic Mountain wearing a tuxedo t-shirt. It says I want to be formal, but I'm here to party.


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 26, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> IMO, biggest key to Magic being successful is the average skier being aware it exists.
> 
> Magic has a reputation of being a hard core ski area for experts; some call it the MRG of southern VT. That reputation will remove it from consideration by a large number of people. They should market themselves as the Smuggs of Southern VT not the MRG.



This is the key right here.  Families and increasing skier visits with improved snow making, improved beginner area, and running lifts.

The lodge and bar are great but a monster fireplace in the middle of it would be awesome.  Upgrading the heating system as well.  Better food.

The other key thing to make Magic viable is year round activities and events.  Bike park.  Concerts.  Functions and weddings.  Antique and craft fairs.  Beer and chili festivals.  Music, art and food events.  Etc.  A consistent source of income to deal with low tide winters.  Need to grow and strengthen the Magic community into a year round place.


----------



## PearlJam09 (Apr 26, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> This is the key right here.  Families and increasing skier visits with improved snow making, improved beginner area, and running lifts.
> 
> The lodge and bar are great but a monster fireplace in the middle of it would be awesome.  Upgrading the heating system as well.  Better food.
> 
> The other key thing to make Magic viable is year round activities and events.  Bike park.  Concerts.  Functions and weddings.  Antique and craft fairs.  Beer and chili festivals.  Music, art and food events.  Etc.  A consistent source of income to deal with low tide winters.  Need to grow and strengthen the Magic community into a year round place.



How about we start with answering the phones during normal business hours.  Gotta walk before you can run, right?


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## skifasttakechances (Apr 26, 2016)

PearlJam09 said:


> How about we start with answering the phones during normal business hours.  Gotta walk before you can run, right?



I am making the assumption that with this sale those days would be a behind Magic.  Don't you?


----------



## PearlJam09 (Apr 26, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> I am making the assumption that with this sale those days would be a behind Magic.  Don't you?



I am 1000% behind the new management, but listing a bunch of events and activities that they *should* do feels like putting the cart before the horse.


----------



## skifasttakechances (Apr 26, 2016)

This is an on-line forum, no?  It's a conversation.  No one is telling anyone what they "should" do.   And that is all.


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## jrmagic (Apr 26, 2016)

MMP said:


> No?? Then you don't know him.



+1


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 26, 2016)

In all seriousness, if we pull this off, I think the priority and key to success is a name change:  H Magic

Too soon???


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## WoodCore (Apr 26, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> In all seriousness, if we pull this off, I think the priority and key to success is a name change:  H Magic
> 
> Too soon???
> 
> ...




Haha!

I'll suggest changing the name to Mullet Mountain. Business in the front, party in the back.


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## prsboogie (Apr 26, 2016)

WoodCore said:


> Haha!
> 
> I'll suggest changing the name to Mullet Mountain. Business in the front, party in the back.



I need a paper towel, thanks


----------



## Pez (Apr 26, 2016)

Haven't skied there in many years.  Last winter I almost did on the way home from Killington and Okemo. Ended up going to Bromley instead figuring the conditions would be better.  I remember hearing that they didn't groom that much.   Don't know if that was true or not.  To the casual observer it seems like there has been a lot of mis information out there about Magic. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## drjeff (Apr 26, 2016)

Pez said:


> Haven't skied there in many years.  Last winter I almost did on the way home from Killington and Okemo. Ended up going to Bromley instead figuring the conditions would be better.  I remember hearing that they didn't groom that much.   Don't know if that was true or not.  To the casual observer it seems like there has been a lot of mis information out there about Magic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Magic not grooming much (or well) is a bit of a misconception, especially when there's not a bunch of natural snow terrain in play.  

Sure when they have natural snow, there is a bunch of terrain that doesn't get groomed.  However, I have found on many occasions over the last 4 seasons when I've been going to Magic typically a few times a year when my kids have had races there, that what Magic does groom, has a snow surface quality that can hold it's own, with any resort in the Northeast!  They can put out a product, that if they can keep people with far less than "expert" abilities very happy with the snow surface they're sliding downhill on


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## MMP (Apr 26, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Magic not grooming much (or well) is a bit of a misconception, especially when there's not a bunch of natural snow terrain in play.
> 
> Sure when they have natural snow, there is a bunch of terrain that doesn't get groomed.  However, I have found on many occasions over the last 4 seasons when I've been going to Magic typically a few times a year when my kids have had races there, that what Magic does groom, has a snow surface quality that can hold it's own, with any resort in the Northeast!  They can put out a product, that if they can keep people with far less than "expert" abilities very happy with the snow surface they're sliding downhill on



next year give me a heads up when you'll be there, I'll bring you a Treehouse.


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## MMP (Apr 26, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> In all seriousness, if we pull this off, I think the priority and key to success is a name change:  H Magic
> 
> Too soon???
> 
> ...



GMagic obviously. Are you sure you're in marketing?


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 26, 2016)

MMP said:


> GMagic obviously. Are you sure you're in marketing?



Haha. thought folks would be confused and search for it as JMagic


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## slatham (Apr 26, 2016)

Glad the potential new owner has a sense of humor! Drove by Magic today and it was snowing so the new vibe has already been recognized by Mother Nature. 

And I do in fact know Do Work.......


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## NYDB (Apr 26, 2016)

skifree said:


> If this gets done I'm in for a pass



+2


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## Mm2jp1 (Apr 26, 2016)

As I've said patrol doesn't give a s#%t If you jump a rope, just don't be obvious in front of them and don't get hurt.


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## rocks860 (Apr 26, 2016)

Dr Jeff totally off topic but I just saw your avatar. I've been up to treehouse a couple times in the last month stocking up. Their beer is incredible.


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## MMP (Apr 26, 2016)

Mm2jp1 said:


> As I've said patrol doesn't give a s#%t If you jump a rope, just don't be obvious in front of them and don't get hurt.



Wrong


----------



## yeggous (Apr 26, 2016)

MMP said:


> Wrong



This was last spring, and the guy was a real dick about it. I'm used to the Cat where ski patrol will say hello and ask how the reserve trails are skiing.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## drjeff (Apr 26, 2016)

rocks860 said:


> Dr Jeff totally off topic but I just saw your avatar. I've been up to treehouse a couple times in the last month stocking up. Their beer is incredible.



The fine folks in Monson are doing some GREAT stuff these days for sure!! :beer:


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## slatham (May 5, 2016)

And no one dare 
Disturb the sound of silence


----------



## Sorcerer (May 5, 2016)

slatham said:


> And no one dare
> Disturb the sound of silence



I hope no news is good news - TB says he knows nothing?


----------



## skifasttakechances (May 5, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> ITB says he knows nothing?



What else is new?


----------



## chuckstah (May 5, 2016)

slatham said:


> And no one dare
> Disturb the sound of silence



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4


----------



## prsboogie (May 5, 2016)

chuckstah said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4



What a great version of that song.


----------



## cdskier (May 5, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> What a great version of that song.



+1. Seriously awesome stuff. Loved it when I first heard it.


----------



## prsboogie (May 5, 2016)

I was taken with how powerful Draiman's voice is. I've been listening to them from day one (The Sickness) but this was beyond.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 5, 2016)

So whatcha think the place is worth?

Don't really care for the song.


----------



## chuckstah (May 5, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> I was taken with how powerful Draiman's voice is. I've been listening to them from day one (The Sickness) but this was beyond.



Same, and I'm an old bastard.  Grown kids hate that I like some of the same music as them.


----------



## Sorcerer (May 6, 2016)

skifasttakechances said:


> What else is new?



He admitted it


----------



## skithetrees (May 6, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> So whatcha think the place is worth.



I think you will be surprised.


----------



## makimono (May 6, 2016)

_*Magic Mountain
With your golden hue
This one wish I ask of you
Please, please let her be mine (for one more season)*_


----------



## slatham (May 6, 2016)

Well that is just absolutely classic. Did I hear Do Work and Rusty Groomer on harmony? JamaicaMan keeping the rythym on drums? And I assume thats you singing and on lead guitar? Sounds like the BLT has a house band for the SNOWY season of 16/17!


----------



## JamaicaMan (May 6, 2016)

Air drums, Latham


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## Moe Ghoul (May 7, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> what does a successful Magic Mountain look like?



Repairing or replacing lifts so they are reliable = x amount of money
repairing/upgrading/expanding snowmaking/ grooming that can produce a lot in a short amount of time = x amount of money
Guarantee Xnumber of ski days for season pass buyers, since it sounds like a lot of the regulars are on the fence or out the door.

Not sure what needs to be done with the lodge and bar, but good bar food helps.

Add that up, then add a realistic amount for capitalization to get the season started. 

That would be a good start.


----------



## Magic (May 19, 2016)

So is no news good news???


----------



## slatham (May 19, 2016)

I think so - a derailment could happen quickly, a consummated deal will take time. So thus far no derailment.

I also saw on the FB page a recent reply to a question on July 4th Fireworks that said the BLT being open was questionable as the transaction might not be fully executed by then. So expectations are that this deal won't be done for some time yet.


----------



## jrmagic (May 19, 2016)

Magic said:


> So is no news good news???



I'm still taking it as good news. There's lots of moving parts so I'm not expecting to hear anything for a while yet.


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## drjeff (May 19, 2016)

It's probably something like this......

The 2 parties basically agreed in principle to the deal with maybe enough words to fill up 1/2 a sheet of paper.  Then they conveyed this info to their respective lawyers, who are still in the process of turning that 1/2 a sheet of paper worth of words into some 173 page document that says the exact same thing, except in lawyer-speak so they can justify all the billable hours they'll charge for the 1st draft and then any subsequent edits 

If all of this goes "quickly" in lawyer time, the same agreement that was agreed in in principle probably a month or so ago now, will be ready to sign somewhere around Labor Day


----------



## slatham (May 19, 2016)

While Dr Jeff has a great (if depressing) point, what I bet is more time consuming is the due diligence - done by 3rd party experts - necessary to understand the physical state of the lifts, snow making, lodge etc - in particular the Black lift. As we all know, it never ran this past winter and the purchase price would be greatly impacted by whether or not this lift has past inspection.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (May 19, 2016)

I imagine it takes a long time to make Magic great again. Convincing Stratton to pay for our snowmaking isn't a one day job. But all jokes aside I for one am 100% confident they are working hard and will get this done. I did not buy the Bromley pass in a sign of confidence. 

I do deals for a living. Typically a transaction will take anywhere from six months to a year if you measure from a true start to a closing. Yes lawyers and consultants can suck the life out of a deal. But if the buyer and seller have come to a commercial agreement they should be able to get over that. I wouldn't be surprised if a few things move slow over the summer, but that isn't abnormal. If a few summer delays are the price we pay for stable ownership, I am all for it. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## deadheadskier (May 19, 2016)

My question would be, how much will these delays limit needed investment for next season?

What's going on up on the hill? Mountain financed projects? Dedicated Magic faithful volunteering? 

Or is it a ghost town while everyone waits for a deal to get done?


----------



## Newpylong (May 20, 2016)

I think Magic could have a significantly better experience next year without major capital expenditures/projects this off season. The right people running the show and enough capital to make snow will go a long way. Certifying the Black will help until if/when there is a replacement. Of course there is always summer maintenance so hopefully the deal gets done in time to complete that.

Obviously the place could use a serious refresh but what I have gathered for the most part the snowmaking is repaired so with enough capital it certainly could be used more effectively that it has been.

My .02.


----------



## gmcunni (May 20, 2016)

are they planning to open  TimberQuest this summer?


----------



## ironhippy (May 20, 2016)

my local hill was sold last year. 

A group of eager buyers (with their own financing) was assembled in March/April, the sellers were motivated. 
The deal finally closed at the end of September. 

This was without any major issues, it just took a long time.


----------



## JamaicaMan (May 20, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Or is it a ghost town while everyone waits for a deal to get done?



Ghost Town right now. But Magicsnowboard is on the right track. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (May 21, 2016)

I'm taking that as positive news


----------



## RustyGroomer (May 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> I'm taking that as positive news



Take it for what it's worth.   Guys were walking around with clipboards over the weekend.  Real clipboards.


----------



## Smellytele (May 24, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Take it for what it's worth.   Guys were walking around with clipboards over the weekend.  Real clipboards.



But did they have pencils and/or pens?


----------



## skifasttakechances (May 24, 2016)

Pocket protectors and protractors too?


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## RustyGroomer (May 24, 2016)

even ladders.  you wouldn't believe it.

I say this often, don't shoot the messenger.  There was some sort of inspection Saturday.  Better than silence.


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## JoeB-Z (May 24, 2016)

Real live due diligence. Sounds like it is under contract and they are working on the contingencies.


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## Sorcerer (May 31, 2016)

Antiques and the Arts Online


   Antiques At *Magic Mountain* To Move To *Stratton Mountain*


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 11, 2016)

Still not under a signed contract yet but we did conduct our own inspection of buildings as noted by RG. Hopeful to get purchase agreement done very shortly as there is much work to be done and we will be basically starting from scratch after the area shutdown in March. However, Ski Magic LLC will be hosting with the Town of Londonderry their annual Independence Day fireworks on July 2nd at Magic (live music and "refreshments" will be served up), even though the property will not have officially changed hands by then, with the cooperation of current title holders Magic Mountain Management LLC. Hope to see any one who is up there at the event!


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## slatham (Jun 12, 2016)

Good to hear the the tradition of the fireworks wasn't derailed by the transaction being midstream. Good luck getting the deal completed and the work started! Looking forward to planning a trip for a volunteer day!


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## MMP (Jun 13, 2016)

How are the flags and do the new owners have plans to maintain them or replace them or light them or follow flag protocol?


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 13, 2016)

MMP said:


> How are the flags and do the new owners have plans to maintain them or replace them or light them or follow flag protocol?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The US Flag is of utmost importance to our success. It will be treated with respect and care. Not sure the same can be said for the Swiss flag, although there may be considerable EB-5 money hiding there...


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## yeggous (Jun 15, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> The US Flag is of utmost importance to our success. It will be treated with respect and care. Not sure the same can be said for the Swiss flag, although there may be considerable EB-5 money hiding there...



Excellent to hear! Finally an ownership that understands the importance of such details. Perhaps a monument to Billski is in order.


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## RustyGroomer (Jun 16, 2016)

MMP said:


> How are the flags and do the new owners have plans to maintain them or replace them or light them or follow flag protocol?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Assuming you were celebrating flag day Tuesday, i'll reply now.  I will be up there this weekend studying wind speed, direction, fabric, soil, vertical rise, etc.  I'll do my best to take some pics for reference & maybe even some charts.

I really feel like in a few years these flags will be the best in the state.


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## MMP (Jun 16, 2016)

Check for duff 


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## slatham (Jun 24, 2016)

Nice to see a FB entry about July 4th fireworks at Magic (on the 2nd). Beer, food and music. Hopefully some news flow too.


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> Nice to see a FB entry about July 4th fireworks at Magic (on the 2nd). Beer, food and music. Hopefully some news flow too.



Your post to God's tweet


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## Sorcerer (Jul 19, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Still not under a signed contract yet but we did conduct our own inspection of buildings as noted by RG. Hopeful to get purchase agreement done very shortly as there is much work to be done and we will be basically starting from scratch after the area shutdown in March. However, Ski Magic LLC will be hosting with the Town of Londonderry their annual Independence Day fireworks on July 2nd at Magic (live music and "refreshments" will be served up), even though the property will not have officially changed hands by then, with the cooperation of current title holders Magic Mountain Management LLC. Hope to see any one who is up there at the event!



Is no news good news?


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## JoeB-Z (Jul 19, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> Is no news good news?



Tiny bits of movement in recent Alpine Update:

http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php

Says updates on sale coming soon and season pass sales expected end of August.


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 19, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> Is no news good news?



No news means nothing definitive to report yet...still. Working it, though.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2016)

Better than Saddleback.


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 19, 2016)

Yeah, love Saddleback and feel for those folks...


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## slatham (Jul 19, 2016)

Keep punching JM......


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## skifasttakechances (Jul 19, 2016)

X2!  Getter done!


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## JoeB-Z (Aug 1, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> Tiny bits of movement in recent Alpine Update:
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php
> 
> Says updates on sale coming soon and season pass sales expected end of August.



So now it the alpine update says season pass sales in September. Is anything happening on the mountain? Mowing? Black Chair work?


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## slatham (Aug 1, 2016)

JoeB-Z you just gave me the ultimate head fake as I thought a new entry was news - good news - on the sale. I propose nobody update this Thread until JamaicaMan tells us the deal is done! Unfortunately I think no news is an indication the owners are not being overly cooperative. Or worse. And it's August 1st already - times a wasting! Is there a "deal God" to pray to????


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 1, 2016)

deallr??


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## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2016)

Was going to ask if the sale had gone through.  Looks like the lifts will spin.  :beer:


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## slatham (Aug 3, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> Was going to ask if the sale had gone through.  Looks like the lifts will spin.  :beer:



Deal not done according to my sources (unless this just happened). Close, but cigars are not out.........


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 3, 2016)

slatham said:


> Deal not done according to my sources (unless this just happened). Close, but cigars are not out.........



That's right, SL


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## Mapnut (Aug 3, 2016)

Funny how the title of this thread is still appropriate 2 years later.


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## Tin (Aug 3, 2016)

DoWork and others, any plans for fall work days?


Stoke!


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## slatham (Aug 3, 2016)

I for one am hard pressed to think I get involved in any volunteer days without a change in management...


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## Sorcerer (Aug 5, 2016)

The lift specialist from the company out of Colorado is back working on the Black Lift.


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## billski (Aug 5, 2016)

I heard that the deal holdup is due to the flags.  Rusty never reported back, so I'm very concerned that the condition of the flags may be a deal-breaker here.  
BTW, a monument isn't necessary.  Changing the name to Billski Mountain will be sufficient.


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## Sorcerer (Aug 8, 2016)

billski said:


> I heard that the deal holdup is due to the flags.  Rusty never reported back, so I'm very concerned that the condition of the flags may be a deal-breaker here.
> BTW, a monument isn't necessary.  Changing the name to Billski Mountain will be sufficient.



the flags are in great shape-they should enhance the deal


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## billski (Aug 8, 2016)

hee! hee! hee!  Must have been a pretty big job.
Should add at least my $0.02 to the deal!


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## Smellytele (Aug 8, 2016)

billski said:


> hee! hee! hee!  Must have been a pretty big job.
> Should add at least my $0.02 to the deal!



That big job was the down fall of the last regime. The straw that broke the camels back...


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## SIKSKIER (Aug 9, 2016)

This is starting to look like Saddlebacks communication last year.

Last post on FB from April 22:MMM and Ski Magic will keep everyone posted on developments.


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## slatham (Aug 9, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> This is starting to look like Saddlebacks communication last year.
> 
> Last post on FB from April 22:MMM and Ski Magic will keep everyone posted on developments.



I am not sure of the specifics in either case, but my gut tells me Saddleback=reluctant buyers. Magic=reluctant sellers. The later is mind bending.......


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## skifasttakechances (Aug 9, 2016)

^^^ expected when dealing with a delusional egomaniac or two.  Fingers crossed that the deal gets done but certainly not holding my breath.  Good luck JM.  Getter done!


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 10, 2016)

What's mind bending here is these guys would love nothing more than Magic to fall flat on it's ass.  The "sellers" that is.  Nobody has done anything to deserve that.  We all want one goal.  To ski Magic with some reliability & less uncertainty.


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## mriceyman (Aug 15, 2016)

Havent been around here in a couple months .. Was hoping for a different tune from this thread.. I guess some things never change


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## sull1102 (Aug 15, 2016)

Wait, it is already August 15th and there's been no movement on this? Someone please tell me TB and friends are not insane enough to consider opening for 16/17 after the debacle that was 15/16.


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## slatham (Aug 15, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> Wait, it is already August 15th and there's been no movement on this? Someone please tell me TB and friends are not insane enough to consider opening for 16/17 after the debacle that was 15/16.



Yeah well they're not fast tracking the sale that's for sure. Saw an instagram comment that there maybe news soon but with the current knucklehead owners WTFK. Time for the hail mary and rosary beads and whatever else might bring some luck to JamaicaMan.


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## djspookman (Aug 16, 2016)

Deal reached!!

http://magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php


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## Smellytele (Aug 16, 2016)

Great news!


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## WoodCore (Aug 16, 2016)

Finally!! Very excited for the future! 


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## machski (Aug 16, 2016)

Nice, can't wait to get my first Magic days in!


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## Tin (Aug 16, 2016)




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## cdskier (Aug 16, 2016)

Congrats! Nice to hear there has been progress!


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## skifasttakechances (Aug 16, 2016)

Great news!  All the best of success for this new chapter of a great ski hill!  Long live Magic!


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## slatham (Aug 16, 2016)

Yaba daba doooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 16, 2016)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154940871945329


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## Smellytele (Aug 16, 2016)

just got the email announcement as well...

[h=1]Well, it's cutting it close, but there is some Breaking News for us all![/h]It may not feel like it outside, but Winter is Back and it's time to "Make Magic Stoked Again"!

Below is the press release sent out earlier this morning by SKI MAGIC LLC, the new ownership and operating group (yes, one unified entity!). More information to come, but Magic is going back to work after a long lay off...and there's a lot to do to get her ready for what sounds like a snowy winter season. 

Please bear with us as we assemble all the key ingredients to "make Magic happen" over the next few weeks as the deal is scheduled to close in early October. As the press release says, operational work on the lifts and snowmaking will begin immediately, but the legal closing of the transaction and transfer of ownership in October will most likely be the time when new season passes go on sale to our great family of skiers and riders.

Thank you all for your patience as it always takes longer than any one would like to make a complicated transaction like this work for every one. And, we appreciate all parties involved in the transaction, past, present and future, coming together to do what's best for the long-term sustainability and improvement of Magic.


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## sull1102 (Aug 16, 2016)

Awesome! Congrats to the "new" team for getting the old guard the hell out of there, mountain will be much better for it. I do wonder if the now rather strange appearance of the lift repair company from Colorado to work on the Black Chair had anything to do with this moving another step closer to closing.


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## Sorcerer (Aug 16, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> Awesome! Congrats to the "new" team for getting the old guard the hell out of there, mountain will be much better for it. I do wonder if the now rather strange appearance of the lift repair company from Colorado to work on the Black Chair had anything to do with this moving another step closer to closing.



 ""I do wonder if the now rather strange appearance of the lift repair  company from Colorado to work on the Black Chair had anything to do with  this moving another step closer to closing.[/QUOTE]""

The lift repair company from Colorado is not a "strange appearance" . They've doing the lift maintenance at Magic for a number of years.


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## sull1102 (Aug 16, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> ""I do wonder if the now rather strange appearance of the lift repair  company from Colorado to work on the Black Chair had anything to do with  this moving another step closer to closing.


""

The lift repair company from Colorado is not a "strange appearance" . They've doing the lift maintenance at Magic for a number of years.[/QUOTE]

What I was more speaking to there was the fact that the lift repair co. showed up last week to work on Black and within a week of that TB and RL are on their way out the door. I guess we will find out in the coming months when the snow flies and the Red is spinning...


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## Sorcerer (Aug 16, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> ""
> 
> The lift repair company from Colorado is not a "strange appearance" . They've doing the lift maintenance at Magic for a number of years.



What I was more speaking to there was the fact that the lift repair co. showed up last week to work on Black and within a week of that TB and RL are on their way out the door. I guess we will find out in the coming months when the snow flies and the Red is spinning...[/QUOTE]


He actually showed up the beginning of August.


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## mriceyman (Aug 17, 2016)

Hiphiphoorayyyy


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## sull1102 (Aug 17, 2016)

Sorcerer said:


> What I was more speaking to there was the fact that the lift repair co. showed up last week to work on Black and within a week of that TB and RL are on their way out the door. I guess we will find out in the coming months when the snow flies and the Red is spinning...




He actually showed up the beginning of August.[/QUOTE]


I was suggesting that perhaps repairs to the Black Chair played a role in the decision to actually sell seeing as posts here from certain parties seemed to suggest the sellers were not exactly helping move the process along.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Aug 17, 2016)

If they were helping things along, they would have sold LAST summer!


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## doublediamond (Aug 18, 2016)

The mountain and asset ownership backed out of the sale last year.  Allegedly, one owner was upset at how some improvements want [read need] to be made and was pissed new ownership would "take away the charm of Magic" or some other bullshit.


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## dlague (Aug 18, 2016)

http://snowbrains.com/magic-mountain-ski-area-vt-bought-by-the-anti-vail/


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## slatham (Aug 19, 2016)

doublediamond said:


> The mountain and asset ownership backed out of the sale last year.  Allegedly, one owner was upset at how some improvements want [read need] to be made and was pissed new ownership would "take away the charm of Magic" or some other bullshit.



Ha! So that was "charm" the previous owners offered last winter? They were delusional. Better things to come.


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## xwhaler (Aug 19, 2016)

Excellent news.  Look forward to making some turns at Magic this winter.  Have a family place can stay at 25 mins from the mtn which makes it easy.

Same Thursday -Sunday operating schedule we think?


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 20, 2016)

Yes. Same schedule. Although trying to open about a month earlier than last season ;-)


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## Newpylong (Aug 20, 2016)

Picture on Facebook of cutting the tree line back on Sorcerer. Trying to expose the pipes for repair?


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## Tin (Aug 20, 2016)

Volunteer dates or just any Saturday you can get up there? Only an hour-twenty away these days and dying to get up there.


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 20, 2016)

Yes, Exposing pipe on Sorce to mark for welding. Do Work and crew doing it for, well, Do Work.

Count on 9/17 and 10/8 as definite big Vol Days for now, but, may add another. There will be folks back up most weekends as there is a ton of trail and glade clearing and clean-up to get done as well as other projects.


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## slatham (Aug 20, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes. Same schedule. Although trying to open about a month earlier than last season ;-)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Yeah baby!


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## steamboat1 (Aug 21, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes, Exposing pipe on Sorce to mark for welding. Do Work and crew doing it for, well, Do Work.
> 
> Count on 9/17 and 10/8 as definite big Vol Days for now, but, may add another. There will be folks back up most weekends as there is a ton of trail and glade clearing and clean-up to get done as well as other projects.
> 
> ...


Why does this sound the same as last season?


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## Tin (Aug 21, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does this sound the same as last season?


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## Newpylong (Aug 21, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does this sound the same as last season?



Because this is how local mountains that do not have corporate ownership and multi million $ cash infusions work. Volunteers and stakeholders come together and do what has to be done. It's not something you will learn at Killington (apparently.)


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## slatham (Aug 21, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does this sound the same as last season?



Because you are not listening. Pay attention, there's a new sheriff in town!


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## jrmagic (Aug 25, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does this sound the same as last season?


Steve really??? Give it the fuck up already. You have zero skin in this game.


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## MMP (Aug 26, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Why does this sound the same as last season?



Because you're still a kuntt? Just a guess. 


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## jrmagic (Aug 26, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes. Same schedule. Although trying to open about a month earlier than last season ;-)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Amen to that!


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## Sorcerer (Nov 16, 2018)

jrmagic said:


> Amen to that!







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