# Telemark Ski - anyone know about it



## undercover (Feb 19, 2018)

I’ve been snowboarding pretty much my whole life. Now I want to try something new. I never learned how to “traditionally”
ski and I have no desire to do so. But both my daughters Ski and I’m the only boarder. I’d like to know about telemark skiing if anyone knows anything worth passing on. Such as what size tele Ski would a 5’-7” 175 lbs fellow like myself want?  What kind of Ski. What kind of bindings/boots? I want to be able to go downhill on the ski slopes and Cruze around the flats in my neighborhood on snow days. Is telemark Ski right for me?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zermatt (Feb 19, 2018)

undercover said:


> I’ve been snowboarding pretty much my whole life. Now I want to try something new. I never learned how to “traditionally”
> ski and I have no desire to do so. But both my daughters Ski and I’m the only boarder. I’d like to know about telemark skiing if anyone knows anything worth passing on. Such as what size tele Ski would a 5’-7” 175 lbs fellow like myself want?  What kind of Ski. What kind of bindings/boots? I want to be able to go downhill on the ski slopes and Cruze around the flats in my neighborhood on snow days. Is telemark Ski right for me?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I’ve been telemark skiing exclusively for 20 years. When my equipment breaks or needs an upgrade I will not be replacing it with telemark gear. 

I don’t use special telemark skis, just regular alpine boards. Obviously not ideal for touring. 

Powder magazine recently published an article claiming telemark skiing is dead. I agree with all their points.


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 20, 2018)

undercover said:


> I’ve been snowboarding pretty much my whole life. Now I want to try something new. I never learned how to “traditionally”
> ski and I have no desire to do so. But both my daughters Ski and I’m the only boarder. I’d like to know about telemark skiing if anyone knows anything worth passing on. Such as what size tele Ski would a 5’-7” 175 lbs fellow like myself want?  What kind of Ski. What kind of bindings/boots? I want to be able to go downhill on the ski slopes and Cruze around the flats in my neighborhood on snow days. Is telemark Ski right for me?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



understanding why you have no desire to "traditionally ski" might help figure out if a telemark ski is good for you, however as billo mentioned, it is all but dead.

I still see telemark skiers at my local hill but they are less and less each year. Even a few years ago we used to have telefests and demo days, they are all gone now.

I think you want a cheap pair of cross country skis for cruising the flats in your neighborhood, you should be able to find a cheap pair (and boots) on craigslist as the season ends. Cruising on heavy touring/downhill gear is not fun especially if you are in shape for it, and even then it's not ideal.


----------



## undercover (Feb 20, 2018)

ironhippy said:


> understanding why you have no desire to "traditionally ski" might help figure out if a telemark ski is good for you, however as billo mentioned, it is all but dead.
> 
> I still see telemark skiers at my local hill but they are less and less each year. Even a few years ago we used to have telefests and demo days, they are all gone now.
> 
> I think you want a cheap pair of cross country skis for cruising the flats in your neighborhood, you should be able to find a cheap pair (and boots) on craigslist as the season ends. Cruising on heavy touring/downhill gear is not fun especially if you are in shape for it, and even then it's not ideal.



I have cross country skis already. I was just curious to know if teles would double for them. I really want tele for downhill. Sounds like I need to single handily keep tele alive. So now that you and Billo talked me into it, how do I get involved at an entry level?  What size Ski should I look for?  I ride a 155cm snowboard and measure 5’-7” with a weight of 175. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




these oldies are my current cross country 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vaughn (Feb 20, 2018)

Has alpine touring displaced it? I've never seen as many people slogging up Cannon as I have this year. 

It was a minor pain on Sunday because the up-hillers, of course, stick to the side of the trail but as the day went along, that's where the snow was piling up so they were go up where I wanted to go down.


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 20, 2018)

undercover said:


> I have cross country skis already. I was just curious to know if teles would double for them. I really want tele for downhill. Sounds like I need to single handily keep tele alive. So now that you and Billo talked me into it, how do I get involved at an entry level?  What size Ski should I look for?  I ride a 155cm snowboard and measure 5’-7” with a weight of 175.



I can't help you with that, I've never done it although I was considering it. 

A few years ago I could get lessons/demos locally, now I would have to find some used gear and learn on my own.

I'm onto the new touring fad and have touring gear instead of telemark.


----------



## flakeydog (Feb 20, 2018)

Go to Mad River and rent equipment and take a lesson.  Probably one of the few place you can still do that these days.  Then hit up next year's ski swaps for equipment or head to a place like Gear Exchange or Replay.  The right equipment is essential (decent plastic boot, cable binding, and alpine-like ski).  Don't just use XC gear, it is not the same.

Don't listen to the naysayers.  Expand your horizons.  I try to get out on tele-gear and a snowboard at least one day or more per season, it's all good!  As they say, whoever has the most toys wins!


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 20, 2018)

flakeydog said:


> Don't just use XC gear, it is not the same.



to be clear, I am not suggesting using XC gear for downhill, I was suggesting it for skiing on flat ground in his neighborhood.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 20, 2018)

billo said:


> *Powder magazine recently published an article claiming telemark skiing is dead. I agree with all their points.*



Posting the link below, because it's a good read.  

I mostly agree.  I find the few telemarkers you see on the slopes today fall into one of two camps:

1)  Long history of telemark skiing in the family roots
2)  Look at me!  No, really, LOOK at me!  NOTICE me!

https://www.powder.com/stories/opinion/telemark-skiing-dead/


----------



## ShadyGrove (Feb 20, 2018)

undercover said:


> I’ve been snowboarding pretty much my whole life. Now I want to try something new. I never learned how to “traditionally”
> ski and I have no desire to do so. But both my daughters Ski and I’m the only boarder. I’d like to know about telemark skiing if anyone knows anything worth passing on. Such as what size tele Ski would a 5’-7” 175 lbs fellow like myself want?  What kind of Ski. What kind of bindings/boots? I want to be able to go downhill on the ski slopes and Cruze around the flats in my neighborhood on snow days. Is telemark Ski right for me?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'd recommend going to a telemark festival or rent/take a lesson at one of the few mountains that offer it. 

This weekend it the 2 day Kare Andersen Telemark Festival at Bromley - https://www.bromley.com/winter/telefest/  I highly recommend it.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 20, 2018)

If you are interested in getting the gear, skis would be sized the same as any downhill ski for you height. I like shorter poles for going downhill than when I used to alpine. If I am going up hill then down I use adjustable poles. 
I personally do it because when I moved to a town with a smaller ski hill and my kids were young, to fight off boredom I started to tele. No long family history and don't care if others see me or not. Although I do see those that do care and bend their knees more when they know someone is around. These are the same ones that yell to me from the lift when they see me and that I ignore for the most part. I find it easier on my knees (tougher on my thighs yes). I find them easier in bumps and in the trees, tougher on less than ideal conditions (hard pack/ice). 
The trend is to go with AT gear but My main thing is to actually tele and it is just an added bonus that I can use them to go up hill. AT  gear it about being able to go up hill and then ski alpine. Alpine skiing isn't what I want to do.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 20, 2018)

Also the boots are way more comfortable than downhill boots not sure how comfy AT boots are but assume they are better than alpine boots in the comfy category


----------



## ThinkSnow (Feb 20, 2018)

flakeydog said:


> Go to Mad River and rent equipment and take a lesson.  Probably one of the few place you can still do that these days.  Then hit up next year's ski swaps for equipment or head to a place like Gear Exchange or Replay.  The right equipment is essential (decent plastic boot, cable binding, and alpine-like ski).  Don't just use XC gear, it is not the same.
> 
> Don't listen to the naysayers.  Expand your horizons.  I try to get out on tele-gear and a snowboard at least one day or more per season, it's all good!  As they say, whoever has the most toys wins!


 +1  MRG is the place to take a tele lesson.  + 1 More toys!  Switch it up!!


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Feb 20, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Also the boots are way more comfortable than downhill boots not sure how comfy AT boots are but assume they are better than alpine boots in the comfy category


That is all personal opinion. I am VERY happy in my alpine boots. I have never tried on a snowboard boot as comfy as my alpine boot, and everyone says how much more comfy they are.
It all comes down to how well they fit.

Sent from my SM-G930F using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Scruffy (Feb 20, 2018)

First, I thought you might be a troll, so I ignored you the other day when I saw your post, sorry.

"I’d like to know about telemark skiing if anyone knows anything worth  passing on. Such as what size tele Ski would a 5’-7” 175 lbs fellow like  myself want? "   170-175cm would be fine for you.

"What kind of Ski."  For down hill at a resort or serious backcountry: Any soft round flexing ski, doesn't have to be a dedicated tele ski. Something in the mid 80s waist.  The fact that you do not alpine ski, is probably making these words fall on deaf ears. So I'd suggest a lesson and rental. If you're set on buying and just going for it, go see Base Camp outfitters at across from the base of the Killington access road. For boots, you're talking about plastic tele boots. If you want to earn your turns, you'll need climbing skins.

For XC downhill ( small mellow mountain terrain, hills and meadow skipping. This is a step above your XC skis ) you'll want something 
like the Fischer S-Bound series ski ( I have the Rebound, there is also the Outbound and maybe one more model in that series ). These have scales on the bottom so you don't need skins and are perfect for XC downhill type excursions. For boots, there are both leather and soft plastic options. These are not suitable for a ski resort or serious mountain terrain. 

Lastly, the most important piece of info I'll give you is: go hang out at this site:
http://www.telemarkeast.com/forums/


----------



## becca m (Feb 20, 2018)

yup - get a lesson - lots of reasonable options.   AMC has cheap lessons at Gunstock every 2 weeks midweek, every mid-winter.   Go where you can rent.  I did it for a few years but making the "perfect turn" is freaking stressful unless that's all you want to do.   Found it stifling and tiring, personally.  Switched to snowboard and never been happier      Used to do both but not any more.  Good luck.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 20, 2018)

Don't take this as an educated opinion... only considering your situation and what I'd do...

I would go for the most versatile, modern, mid-range AT gear you can get in this situation. I see no reason to telemark on alpine terrain, normally. I see these guys going down and think, holy crap, my knees. Seriously, your knees. It doesn't even look fun to me it looks like dudes who want to ski something weird and are willing to compromise.

At least AT gear, from what I gather, you can ski alpine at least almost as well as dedicated alpine gear, and XC style, say if you want to go along the Long Trail and find some backcountry most people don't get to. Or at Bolton Valley you would have access to a large amount of side/backcountry terrain -- *** I would use it for this ***. Seems like a more versatile choice especially for someone getting into things. And you can explore some backcountry / earn turns as another hobby if you want.

My next investment in ski gear might be something like this, it seems to be an area where gear is coming into maturity in many ways.


----------



## Scruffy (Feb 20, 2018)

Telemark skiing is NOT hard on your knees, not in the least; on you quads, well, that's another thing.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 20, 2018)

Well I'm glad to hear that. The worst thing for knees seems to be back seat riding and lack of conditioning on the legs muscles surrounding it.

So Scuffy, can people just telemark ski with AT gear and have the best of both worlds, or am I getting things mixed up?


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 20, 2018)

AT gear is not made to tele. It is made to lock the heel down when going down hill


----------



## Scruffy (Feb 20, 2018)

^^ Right. The AT boot and binding would not flex so you'd be just tipping up your rear foot, if in walk mode, and depending on the AT binding, might even break something. For tele you need the boot to flex around the ball of the foot. You want the rear foot's ball of foot to be flat on the ski or binding in order to drive that rear foot. A lot of alpine converts that teach themselves, simple raise their rear foot and do not pressure that rear ski very much at all. In good snow, you want a 50/50 weight distribution on front and rear foot and the rear foot ball to really pressure and drive that rear ski.


----------



## skimagic (Feb 20, 2018)

ThinkSnow said:


> +.  + 1 More toys!  Switch it up!!



I'm a teledabbler - switch it up from Alpine from time to time, especially on smaller hills.  

Bromley is running a telefest with clinics t his weekend.
https://www.bromley.com/winter/telefest/


.  I picked up a newer,  cheap set up on Craigslist , gear is easy to find there.


----------



## undercover (Feb 21, 2018)

Can you guys explain the abbreviation AT?  I assume XC is cross country. The real purpose for my tele quest is to fight of the Boredom that arises from skiing with my 9 and 11 year old daughters. The 9 year old mostly as I’m happy to say that the 11 year old can almost keep pace with this slow boarder. So the set up I desire would be used for mostly down hill. Btw, even though tele is dying there is still one employer that makes tele lessons mandatory for certain employees.  My friend from high school was trained to Ski telemark. He is an officer for United States Marines and has been for almost 20 years. Now I need to learn. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 21, 2018)

undercover said:


> Can you guys explain the abbreviation AT?  I assume XC is cross country. The real purpose for my tele quest is to fight of the Boredom that arises from skiing with my 9 and 11 year old daughters. The 9 year old mostly as I’m happy to say that the 11 year old can almost keep pace with this slow boarder. So the set up I desire would be used for mostly down hill. Btw, even though tele is dying there is still one employer that makes tele lessons mandatory for certain employees.  My friend from high school was trained to Ski telemark. He is an officer for United States Marines and has been for almost 20 years. Now I need to learn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



AT is alpine touring.  Done with bindings that can release the heel for climbing up and be in lock mode for downhill.


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 21, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Posting the link below, because it's a good read.
> 
> I mostly agree.  I find the few telemarkers you see on the slopes today fall into one of two camps:
> 
> ...



2)  Very few telemarkers at Jay, but they can disproportionately be found skiing under the Jet chair.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 21, 2018)

fbrissette said:


> 2)  Very few telemarkers at Jay, but they can disproportionately be found skiing under the Jet chair.



They hide in the woods so you don't seem them skiing on the groomers with you.


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 21, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> They hide in the woods so you don't seem them skiing on the groomers with you.



Good try.  I ski exclusively in the woods (I do use groomers to get there however), and I've seen a tele dude in the woods once (300+ days of skiing).  Granted there's not a lot of them.  But I see them regularly under the Jet (while I'm in the chair).   Just an observation.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 21, 2018)

fbrissette said:


> Good try.  I ski exclusively in the woods (I do use groomers to get there however), and I've seen a tele dude in the woods once (300+ days of skiing).  Granted there's not a lot of them.  But I see them regularly under the Jet (while I'm in the chair).   Just an observation.



I would much rather ski woods than groomers or regular trails. More so at Jay where the regular trails are usually a scraped off icy mess.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 21, 2018)

yea, def don't try tele turns in AT bindings. bad times guaranteed. I have marker barons on one of my sets of skis. I own salomon guardians which I took off skis and haven't put back on. most of my go to skis have look pivots (traditional alpine binding). the AT gear is fun for getting around the sidecountry at stowe, jay, sugarbush, and for the very occasional skin I get to do


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 21, 2018)

undercover said:


> I assume XC is cross country. The real purpose for my tele quest is to fight of the Boredom that arises from skiing with my 9 and 11 year old daughters.



This is great information. Telemark might be perfect for you then.

When I was considering learning it was for early (or bad) season when only groomed runs are open, so I was going to learn it to fight off boredom.

My lifestyle has since changed and I don't ski as often when it's only groomers available so I am no longer considering it.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 23, 2018)

Not sure what this means or entails but Saturday March 3rd is world Telemark day


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 23, 2018)

World telemark day ????   WTF.

March 3rd is also the UN World Wildlife Day.   

Let us all celebrate the Bicknell's Trush by having telemarkers trash its habitat on March 3rd.  We may even get BG on telemark gear  for this event.


----------



## undercover (Feb 24, 2018)

For my first set up, What do you guys think of these bindings?
https://item.mercari.com/gl/m86765486881/

With these telemark Ski's?








Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## witch hobble (Feb 24, 2018)

Nobody cares that telemark is dead


----------



## witch hobble (Feb 24, 2018)

Don’t overthink the fine details of your first set up. Just do it!


----------



## witch hobble (Feb 24, 2018)

fbrissette said:


> World telemark day ????   WTF.
> 
> March 3rd is also the UN World Wildlife Day.
> 
> Let us all celebrate the Bicknell's Trush by having telemarkers trash its habitat on March 3rd.  We may even get BG on telemark gear  for this event.



Who’s to say that north facing thickets above 3000’ in elevation will even be skiable in the northeast on March 3rd? Seems awfully presumptuous of you!


----------



## Scruffy (Feb 24, 2018)

undercover said:


> For my first set up, What do you guys think of these bindings?
> https://item.mercari.com/gl/m86765486881/
> 
> With these telemark Ski's?
> ...



22 Designs Hammerheads are awesome bindings, good choice. You'll need 75mm telemark norm boots, which are of course the most popular, except for the new NTN norm boot binding system, which I have, but wish I hadn't bought into and abandoned and sold my hammerheads for. The skis are ok, softish 90mm wasted ski, but those are older skis, prolly 7 years old not, nothing wrong with that if they are in good shape. May not be the best east coast ski for ice, but for soft day, why not.

Russel Raney designed that binding BTW, and then sold his business to 22 Designs. Russel is a big name in telemark bindings. His SuperLoop bindings from the 80's were a big step up from the typical Voile 3 pin bindings that were all the rage then.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 24, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Not sure what this means or entails but Saturday March 3rd is world Telemark day



Plattekill telefest is this Friday. Come on out.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 24, 2018)

witch hobble said:


> Nobody cares that telemark is dead



Yeah we don't care.

I can vouch for whoever said the thing about the knees. I can't run a 1/4 mile without knee pain the next day, but I can tele until my quads are beat.  I think building up the muscles actually helps your knees.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 5, 2021)

Sorry for bumping an old thread...

I just rented tele skis at Plattekill today.  Did not take a lesson because of short notice and expense of private lessons but I did read up and watch a lot of videos.  I think I made some progress working on the turn by the time I was done but I was also surprised how it was not difficult to to snowplow and stem christie with them.

Anyway, I am now interested in buying some equipment but I don't know where to find it.  Are there any ski shops in the mid Atlantic region that stock boots?  Currently browsing ebay but am concerned with fit of boots from buying online - rental boots were pretty uncomfortable.

Also I have been reading up and apparently there are two trains of though for beginner tele gear.  Some say the turn is much easier to do satisfactorily on the new gear.  Many are saying that the old duckbill boots and cable bindings are best for beginners to force you to get the technique right (and they are a fraction of the cost).

I realize some are saying tele is dead (sadly I was told I was the first person all year to rent tele skis at Plattekill) but I had a good time.  The idea would be to do something that would keep me interested and challenged on the hills in PA and slow me down - safer, easier on the knees, better excercise, more fun to do with friends who are infrequent skiers.  I am also interested in skinning some hills that cannot be descended well in in xc skis, such as Marcy.

Do any of you have thoughts on beginning telemarking? Any input would really be appreciated


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 5, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Sorry for bumping an old thread...
> 
> I just rented tele skis at Plattekill today.  Did not take a lesson because of short notice and expense of private lessons but I did read up and watch a lot of videos.  I think I made some progress working on the turn by the time I was done but I was also surprised how it was not difficult to to snowplow and stem christie with them.
> 
> ...


Not sure what part of Pa. your from but I've seen a great deal of Tele talent skiing Elk , maybe some shops around there? 

There has been a lot of demand this year for touring equipment due to Covid  ,I'm not sure if it's spilled over to Tele equipment.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 5, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Not sure what part of Pa. your from but I've seen a great deal of Tele talent skiing Elk , maybe some shops around there?
> 
> There has been a lot of demand this year for touring equipment due to Covid  ,I'm not sure if it's spilled over to Tele equipment.


I'll check it out - thanks for the tip!

I do usually see a few Tele skiers even at PA areas - there were even a few people in my HS ski club who tele skied - but there were definitely wayyy more people tele skiing at Plattekill than I have seen anywhere else.  I have not been to Elk but have been eyeing up getting there this year sometime, we have driven 2 hours up to Montage it would definitely be worth the extra few minutes to get to Elk at some point for a day trip, although it is easier to find people willing to go to montage because they have the $35 ticket with included rentals.


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 5, 2021)

PAabe said:


> I'll check it out - thanks for the tip!
> 
> I do usually see a few Tele skiers even at PA areas - there were even a few people in my HS ski club who tele skied - but there were definitely wayyy more people tele skiing at Plattekill than I have seen anywhere else.  I have not been to Elk but have been eyeing up getting there this year sometime, we have driven 2 hours up to Montage it would definitely be worth the extra few minutes to get to Elk at some point for a day trip.


2 hours up to Montage sounds like Allentown / Philly ?  . Try Calling Buckmans ski shops , Great people.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 5, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> 2 hours up to Montage sounds like Allentown / Philly ?  . Try Calling Buckmans ski shops , Great people.


Close, Lancaster.  I'll give them a call.  Looks like they have a shop in Reading which is not too far.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 5, 2021)

Not sure about PA. Go to Sports Page in NY, to buy your boots and get them fit. Dick will fit them, you will be golden.

Tele boots are 1000% more comfortable than alpine.  Have you ever seen a teleperson unbuckle their boots in the middle of the day? I could sleep in mine.



PAabe said:


> I realize some are saying tele is dead (sadly I was told I was the first person all year to rent tele skis at Plattekill) but I had a good time.


All the tele skiers at Plattekill own their own boots. 

It may be dead but it is fun as hell.  I do a lot of parallel turns but would never give up my tele gear.

NTN baby.


----------



## cdskier (Feb 5, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Do any of you have thoughts on beginning telemarketing? Any input would really be appreciated


You could just start randomly dialing phone numbers. Right around dinner time is perfect. People love that!


----------



## PAabe (Feb 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> You could just start randomly dialing phone numbers. Right around dinner time is perfect. People love that!


Oof what a typo!


----------



## PAabe (Feb 5, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Not sure about PA. Go to Sports Page in NY, to buy your boots and get them fit. Dick will fit them, you will be golden.
> 
> Tele boots are 1000% more comfortable than alpine.  Have you ever seen a teleperson unbuckle their boots in the middle of the day? I could sleep in mine.
> 
> ...


Shoot I was just at Gore the day before Plattekill and seem to have driven right by there - I'll have to keep them on my radar.

I might just end up getting some old stuff off ebay until if/when I improve enough to justify buying a nice pair but I definitely would be interested in at least trying on an NTN boot at some point so I'll have to check out some of these shops.

Do you know is either NTN or the old style particularly easier to skin and can you skin effectively without the special backcountry bindings?


----------



## cdskier (Feb 5, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Oof what a typo!



LOL. It was too good to pass up!


----------



## Harvey (Feb 6, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Do you know is either NTN or the old style particularly easier to skin and can you skin effectively without the special backcountry bindings?


Both are pretty easy. Most people who tour will want a touring pivot in the binding.  You can get that in either style.

Maybe a bit presumptuous of me, but IMO the  hot setup is Scarpa TX Pro with 22 Designs Outlaw X.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 6, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Both are pretty easy. Most people who tour will want a touring pivot in the binding.  You can get that in either style.
> 
> Maybe a bit presumptuous of me, but IMO the  hot setup is Scarpa TX Pro with 22 Designs Outlaw X.


Thanks for the advice.  I will see what I can get ahold of.

I did stop in by a ski shop by Elk on the way back home from Plattekill since we were practically going right by anyway - they appeared to have new scarpa tele boots but the place was an absolute zoo of Elk skiers returning rentals so did not stick around.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 7, 2021)

FWIW if you are an alpine skier potential reason to switch:

You are so good at alpine you are looking for a challenge
You don't mind going from being hot stuff to a newbie
Skiing with family or other people who keep you on easier terrain at slower speeds. It ups the challenge.

For me, I love the turn itself.  

Also I love the ability to traverse with ease. All the most interesting mountains have traverses. (Gore is one of my home mtns).

The boots are surpremely comfortable.

That said, I parallel more than I tele.  

Parallel: hard pack, firm surfaces, some trees.
Tele: Soft cord, Pow, soft bumps, trees.

I'm constantly seeking soft snow anyway.


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 7, 2021)

Curious....Do you Tele guys have adjustable heel lifts like Touring equipment ? Something to attach for the ups that can be removed?


----------



## downdraft (Feb 7, 2021)

The Fey brothers, www.telemarkdown.com , have been selling telemark gear online and B/M for quite awhile. From their site, looks like they are demoing gear at a tele festival at Plattekill on Feb. 26. (The website lists their on mountain demo schedule.)


----------



## taul (Feb 7, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Curious....Do you Tele guys have adjustable heel lifts like Touring equipment ? Something to attach for the ups that can be removed?


There can be climbing wires in the heel piece that flip up and down. I can remember really old school guys having a contraption made out of PVC pipe and some straps  that would sit under their boots.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 7, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Do you Tele guys have adjustable heel lifts like Touring equipment ?


A heel lifter?  Most telebindings it's standard, I think?


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 7, 2021)

Harvey said:


> A heel lifter?  Most telebindings it's standard, I think?


Wasn't sure if you had some type of shimming device to raise your heel off the ski whether that would attach to the binding or your boot . I have a set of Touring bindings ,Dynafit Radiacals they have two heel height adjustments for climbing . I would imagine climbing with teles on a steep slope would burn the muscles on the back of your legs ?


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 7, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Wasn't sure if you had some type of shimming device to raise your heel off the ski whether that would attach to the binding or your boot . I have a set of Touring bindings ,Dynafit Radiacals they have two heel height adjustments for climbing . I would imagine climbing with teles on a steep slope would burn the muscles on the back of your legs ?


Most tele bindings have them, Some you can buy different sizes after the fact.
Never had my muscles on the back of my legs (calf nor hamstring) burn from steeps


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 7, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Most tele bindings have them, Some you can buy different sizes after the fact.
> Never had my muscles on the back of my legs (calf nor hamstring) burn from steeps


 I'm sure you're in better shape than I am LOL.

Well looking at the long lift line pictures in the other thread , taking some skins along is a cheap option if teles are your daily drivers .


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 7, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I'm sure you're in better shape than I am LOL.
> 
> Well looking at the long lift line pictures in the other thread , taking some skins along is a cheap option if teles are your daily drivers .


Cardio is usually my issue.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 7, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> taking some skins along is a cheap option if teles are your daily drivers .


Always have my skins. At Gore if the Gondi goes on windhold midday you can have the summit "all to yourself."


----------



## PAabe (Feb 8, 2021)

Free heel would definitely be very useful getting around Gore


----------



## flakeydog (Feb 8, 2021)

If you have some tele gear laying around its a quick and cheaper option if you want to do some AT, or join your cool friends that have a setup and you don't.  When everything shut down last season, I used tele gear for AT gear.  AT bindings have been super hard to come by since then, not to mention a bit pricey.  I was able to find some skins for a decent price so at least I had an option when the lifts stopped running.


----------



## NYDB (Feb 8, 2021)

The rhetoric from people who don't telemark regarding telemarking reminds me so much of singlespeed mountain bike riding it is very funny.  Probably alot of overlap between the groups.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> The rhetoric from people who don't telemark regarding telemarking reminds me so much of singlespeed mountain bike riding it is very funny.  Probably alot of overlap between the groups.


What type of rhetoric?


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Feb 8, 2021)

also curious to this post.  I thought there was a lot of really good information in this thread.


----------



## McFatt (Feb 8, 2021)

Check out IME in NorthConway and Ragged Mountain Equipment in Intervale for used tele gear. Also, Frey Bros Telemarkdown in New Boston has the new NTN binding system and high end gear.
There's a classic learn to tele book: Allen O'Bannon's Really Cool Telemark tips Find it on Amazon or maybe AMC bookstore.
The best tip I pulled out of that book was when initiating a turn, engage your downhill toes individually like you would engage each finger on a piano. You'll be telecarving in no time
And, not sure if you have little kids, but I did a ton on teleing when my kids were getting started on alpine. It was easy to walk up the snowbelt and bend over to help them. However, now that they are ripping the whole mountain, I'm locked in on my alpines so I can keep up with them!
I think of teleing now, for me, as a slow, methodical dance down the mountain. Something I can't do with my volkl mantras and 130flex panteras, those things only know 1 speed


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2021)

Same here with really starting when my kids were small. But for me it stuck and I can keep up with 2 of them but not my youngest who is 17 and rips through everything. Don't even own an alpine setup.
I have tried the NTN but to me it throws me around. It is too stiff and tele turns seem harder with the NTN. Can't bend my knee and get down as much, When in transition it throws my ski forward and fucks me up. I will keep trying it but it is totally different than using the duck bill 75mm setup. Like starting all over after 25 years of tele skiing.


----------



## McFatt (Feb 8, 2021)

I tried the NTN and liked it, but not enough to shell out another $1000+ on gear, even though I could use an upgrade. I would like to eventually upgrade though, just not sure if I'd go full NTN or just stick w the 75mm duckbills. I do like getting low on those turns, though, and agree the NTN's stiffness keeps you more upright in the turn


----------



## Harvey (Feb 8, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Free heel would definitely be very useful getting around Gore


It is.  We thrive on the traverses.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 8, 2021)

So I stopped in at my local ski shop today - ERA ski shop in Lancaster, great guys - turns out they all tele.  They had a few pairs of newish 75mm crispi boots but none in my size.  None of them there are fans of NTN - their opinion is you can't get very low on the turns and effectively end up skiing like you are on regular alpine gear.  They definitely could set me up with tele gear for next season, but would have to order in the boots, scarpa or crispi - they said there often is a bit of tele gear going through their ski swap in the fall but good luck getting boots the right size there - better chance of finding tele gear than AT gear right now though due to current high demand for AT and XC equipment.  They will mount bindings but only ones they have a template for - might not do any with a touring pin.  They will heat fit boots for $50 if I can get ahold of any myself.  The one guy there offered to sell me his tele skis, he said he is too old and out of shape for them anymore.

They recommended getting a good pair of somewhat narrow skis to have a fighting chance of skiing on Pennsylvania ice.  They also said Crystal Lake in PA or Whitegrass in WV nordic areas do tele lessons and might rent in addition to Platty.  Gore offers lessons but no rentals.  Ski shops in lake placid may do rentals.

So looks like I should be able to get some equipment for next year if I want to spend the money.  An alternative is ebay but boots may not fit well or be in good shape and it looks like it is probably worth spending the money on decent skis to be able to deal with icy conditions here.  Or I could check out other shops but we have always been pleased to do business with them at ERA.  I probably should actually take a lesson rather than just watch videos/read about tips for the turn if I get equipment for next year.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 8, 2021)

Some boots on sale at telemarkdown.com.  I might just buy a pair and see about buying the used tele skis from ski shop - then I could be in business this season yet!  I am thinking Crispi XP (sale price $325.00, for skiing from lifts and the occasional backcountry) but not sure if Scarpa T1/T2 would be better.  T2 is backordered.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 8, 2021)

PAabe said:


> They recommended getting a good pair of somewhat narrow skis to have a fighting chance of skiing on Pennsylvania ice.


IMO tele is really best suited to soft snow.

While I do my best to avoid it (and I think I do a pretty good job), sometime you are going to ski some hard snow.

This is where NTN shines. It's a great binding for doing both.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2021)

Harvey said:


> IMO tele is really best suited to soft snow.
> 
> While I do my best to avoid it (and I think I do a pretty good job), sometime you are going to ski some hard snow.
> 
> This is where NTN shines. It's a great binding for doing both.


NTN to me is useless and I might as well just alpine ski.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 8, 2021)

I resisted for a long time and only switched when I learned that my favorite bindings (Axls) and my favorite boots (T1s) are known to be incompatible.

The "transition" took me about 20 seconds.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 8, 2021)

Harvey said:


> IMO tele is really best suited to soft snow.
> 
> While I do my best to avoid it (and I think I do a pretty good job), sometime you are going to ski some hard snow.
> 
> This is where NTN shines. It's a great binding for doing both.


Sadly it is pretty difficult to avoid hard snow around these parts haha.  Any snow at all on the ground is good snow.

I can definitely see how the NTN system would be advantageous but I am probably going to cheap out and go with 75mm so I can get used skis.  If it's more of a challenge and I have to work more on the technique, so be it, that's the whole point!  I called fey brothers, I will probably be getting those Crispi XP 3 buckle boots, and they said they might have some skis around too.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 9, 2021)

McFatt said:


> Check out IME in NorthConway and Ragged Mountain Equipment in Intervale for used tele gear. Also, Frey Bros Telemarkdown in New Boston has the new NTN binding system and high end gear.
> There's a classic learn to tele book: Allen O'Bannon's Really Cool Telemark tips Find it on Amazon or maybe AMC bookstore.
> The best tip I pulled out of that book was when initiating a turn, engage your downhill toes individually like you would engage each finger on a piano. You'll be telecarving in no time
> And, not sure if you have little kids, but I did a ton on teleing when my kids were getting started on alpine. It was easy to walk up the snowbelt and bend over to help them. However, now that they are ripping the whole mountain, I'm locked in on my alpines so I can keep up with them!
> I think of teleing now, for me, as a slow, methodical dance down the mountain. Something I can't do with my volkl mantras and 130flex panteras, those things only know 1 speed


You have found a book that even the mighty Amazon doesn't stock!  Looks like some used book dealers online stock it, seems like that could be really useful, I will try to get ahold of it.  I had been wondering if there were good books on the subject.


----------



## teleo (Feb 9, 2021)

I believe it's been out of print for a while.  Used may be your best chance.  Was a good book.


----------



## eatskisleep (Feb 14, 2021)

I have that book it is amazing. You can find it used online. Wish they made something similar for regular skiing for my wife.
Edit: here it is new: https://m.barnesandnoble.com/w/alle...ised-and-even-better-allen-obannon/1111869172


----------



## PAabe (Feb 15, 2021)

The Really Cool Telemark Tips and Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book are on their way!






The hype is growing... there are some HOT turns going on in this video


----------



## PAabe (Feb 16, 2021)

So I have ordered the tele setup from Fey brothers - Crispi XP 3 buckle 75mm boots and 170 length rossignol smash 7 skis 92 width, apparently they don't make them much narrower than that anymore, they said they should be ok for hardpack.  I did end up going for new, it seemed to be not that much more cost than used.  I await their arrival with great interest.

Another dumb question for y'all, but I was wondering after watching the skinny cambered cross country skis and leather boots in the video above - my cross country skis are somewhat substantial (I don't often get the chance to ski in tracks so no sense having real skinny track skis), waxless rossignol bc 65 positrack with the NNN-BC binding, metal edge and a bit of sidecut, the boots seem to have a clip for a runaway strap, can one tele turn on those?  I was going down a fairly large hill on them the other day and dropped my knee and was able to coax out a couple (very wide-radius) turns, although, I am not sure if it was actually a real tele turn.  Would it be an absolute smooth-brained idea to take those for a spin on the bunny hill off a lift sometime?  I would not be so worried getting down the hill as getting yelled at by ski patrol for being a dumbass (which I am but still)


----------



## Shredmonkey254 (Feb 16, 2021)

PAabe said:


> So I have ordered the tele setup from Fey brothers - Crispi XP 3 buckle 75mm boots and 170 length rossignol smash 7 skis 92 width, apparently they don't make them much narrower than that anymore, they said they should be ok for hardpack.  I did end up going for new, it seemed to be not that much more cost than used.  I await their arrival with great interest.
> 
> Another dumb question for y'all, but I was wondering after watching the skinny cambered cross country skis and leather boots in the video above - my cross country skis are somewhat substantial (I don't often get the chance to ski in tracks so no sense having real skinny track skis), waxless rossignol bc 65 positrack with the NNN-BC binding, metal edge and a bit of sidecut, the boots seem to have a clip for a runaway strap, can one tele turn on those?  I was going down a fairly large hill on them the other day and dropped my knee and was able to coax out a couple (very wide-radius) turns, although, I am not sure if it was actually a real tele turn.  Would it be an absolute smooth-brained idea to take those for a spin on the bunny hill off a lift sometime?  I would not be so worried getting down the hill as getting yelled at by ski patrol for being a dumbass (which I am but still)


So... back in the mid 80's to the early 90's, I was big into the tele thing. Traveled the New England Tele race circuit for a few of those years, hit Dickie Hall's Telefest at Mad River. Loved it all until tearing my ACL at Alta while on Alpine skis. Complications - 3 surgery's later - the next year I was back out on the Alpine boards and slowly worked my way back to being able to tele respectably down Outer Limits, which was my post surgery goal. But my knee always bothered me, so I tried snowboarding. I have not gone back to skiing since 1994, so just the opposite of what you are doing! Anyway, back in those days, I would take my super skinny edgeless track skis with scales underfoot and low cut boots and ski from my house to the top of my local night skiing ski area. I would tele down and the lifty's would let me back on the chair with no ticket as they didn't believe it could be skied on those. Would do a couple laps then head back home. So the long answer is yes, go right out there and use them! Once you master the tele turn, you will not find it impossible to do! Good luck to you, I look forward to hearing how you like it and have been secretly enjoying this thread.


----------



## flakeydog (Feb 16, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Another dumb question for y'all, but I was wondering after watching the skinny cambered cross country skis and leather boots in the video above - my cross country skis are somewhat substantial (I don't often get the chance to ski in tracks so no sense having real skinny track skis), waxless rossignol bc 65 positrack with the NNN-BC binding, metal edge and a bit of sidecut, the boots seem to have a clip for a runaway strap, can one tele turn on those?  I was going down a fairly large hill on them the other day and dropped my knee and was able to coax out a couple (very wide-radius) turns, although, I am not sure if it was actually a real tele turn.  Would it be an absolute smooth-brained idea to take those for a spin on the bunny hill off a lift sometime?  I would not be so worried getting down the hill as getting yelled at by ski patrol for being a dumbass (which I am but still)



The first tele setup I ever tried c. mid-late eighties was just some leather boots about hiking boot height and a pair of 210cm double-camber backcountry skits with a metal edge.  It is tough fighting the double-camber to really get an arc out of the ski.  I eventually got a set of single camber (but still pretty narrow) tele skis in a 205 and that made a difference.  Next came a pair of higher and firmer leather boots, better still.  For me the real revolutionary development was a cable on the binding.  This really drives the front of the ski into the snow as the heel comes up and forces the ski to arc.  It also keeps the ski flopping back at you on every tiny bump in the trail.  It also makes tele bump skiing possible, and very fun.  Then throw in plastic boots and some legit alpine-style skis and you can carve away.  

I still have the old backcountry stuff because there are a lot of places to go where you don't want to deal with skins and all of that.  You just want to ski, up, down, across, etc without any transition.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 16, 2021)

I will have to give the nnn-bc skis a go off the lift sometime then, but not until I can do a legit turn on the legit tele skis!


----------



## flakeydog (Feb 16, 2021)

I don’t know if the NNN BC’s will do the trick. The pivot point is way up there, at or in front of the toe. 75mm bindings bring it back closer to the natural bend in your foot.   You can try it but you lose a lot of control when the ball of your foot loses contact with the ski. It may work but be prepared to flail around a bit.


----------



## PAabe (Feb 16, 2021)

The YouTube algorithm, it is frightening sometimes... 

Improving your telemark turn on cross country skis​



Improving your parallel turns on cross country skis​




(I did not search for these videos...)


----------



## PAabe (Mar 6, 2021)

Thank you all again for the advice!  I went to Shawnee last night to try out the tele setup for the first time.  The tele turns were getting much better than last time, not sure if that is due to the equipment, better fitting boots, the Telemark Tips, or just getting more practice.  Probably some combination of that.  My legs are still burning lol.

I got the boots heat fitted at my ski shop and they are now by far the most comfortable ski boots I have ever worn, even more so than my cross country boots.  They seemed to start flexing pretty good at the bellows after a few runs, and the bindings/boot seems to have much more snap/spring/power than the rentals I tried.  One thing regarding the bindings, 22 designs vice, they have only 3 pin settings instead of 5.  I do not know how much touring I will be doing on these in the future, but I hope the loosest setting is loose enough to hack around on them a bit with wax/skins.  I have yet to move the pin out of the default #2 position.  I dugout the old short kid's poles to use as recommended by Allan & Mike, never expected to use those again.

I also thoroughly enjoyed reading Allan and Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book, it has lots of good ideas for winter camping that I had not thought about before.


----------

