# Back pack & skins



## MR. evil (Mar 13, 2010)

Looking for some recomendations for a back pack and some skins for some BC type skiing. The back pack will need to be able to carry skis for when I have to huff it by foot. Someone told me they really like the Dakine back packs with Diagnol ski carry. I have been looking at a bunch of Dakine packs ans still don't really know what makes one better than another. And skins, damn those things are expensive!


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## o3jeff (Mar 13, 2010)

I have the Tactic that I impulse bought off Steep and Cheap, never used it yet, but seems like it is good size for day BC trips.


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## snowmonster (Mar 13, 2010)

I have the 22 liter BD Factor. I recommend it. You can carry skis A frame, diagonal or vertical. Loops for ice axes, helmets and, if you want skins. Camelback compatible and the hose comes through the right backpack strap. Separate compartment for avy gear and wet clothing. I've used it on several daytrips around Mt. Washington. It also comes in a 32 liter version if you need more room and an avalung if you're headed west or in avy territory around these parts. Got mine last year for about $60. 

Skins - I have G3 Expedition skins. Good grip and glue. Got them at the end of the season for less than a hundred. Aside from G3 and BD, you may want to try climbingskinsdirect.com. No direct experience but I've heard good things.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Mar 13, 2010)

looking for skins as well, post if you see any deals...need 110


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## Edd (Nov 6, 2010)

snowmonster said:


> I have the 22 liter BD Factor. I recommend it. You can carry skis A frame, diagonal or vertical. Loops for ice axes, helmets and, if you want skins. Camelback compatible and the hose comes through the right backpack strap. Separate compartment for avy gear and wet clothing. I've used it on several daytrips around Mt. Washington. It also comes in a 32 liter version if you need more room and an avalung if you're headed west or in avy territory around these parts. Got mine last year for about $60. QUOTE]
> 
> Snowmonster, when I search for the Factor I come up with ski boots.  Did you mean to say the Covert or something?
> 
> I'm looking for a pack.  I checked at Ragged and they have several BD models with Avalung.  Seems silly out here but I do western trips.  I don't even know if I'll like the AT thing but I don't want to skimp out on a pack and regret it later.


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## riverc0il (Nov 6, 2010)

Do you have a hiking pack? Just use that if you aren't sure if you will "like the AT thing." Its an expensive proposition to go into without knowing if you will like it or not. If you really want a pack and you're not sure what you are looking for, just go to EMS, REI, or the outdoor store of your choice and take a look at them, try them on, and bring your gear to make sure it will fit. 

Diagonal carry is great. But you don't use it when you are skinning. Do you plan on hiking for turns in October or May/June when you need to hike to get to the snow? Are you planning on climbing gullies? Get diagonal carry. If not, who cares. Do you drink out of a reservoir or bottle? Are you ready for your hose to freeze in the winter? Even when you put it through a backpack arm and blow the water back through? I used to do that and now carry bottles. Basically, what I am getting at here is that every guy that earns turns needs different things from his gear. Until you know what you need, you are better off just doubling up a summer hiking pack for your first few times out. If I were you, I would be MUCH more concerned about making sure you have a good layering system. You can leave the ski parka at home.

Skins... just get BC Ascensions, G3s nylon equivalent, or check out climbing skins direct. I have used the BDs and G3s and overall, I like BDs product better. You are not going to find too many deals right now. Sierra Trading Post has G3s for sale if you don't mind colors designed for the ladies.


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## Edd (Nov 6, 2010)

I've thought the layering thing through a bit.  I dress in varying layers for alpine skiing.  My shell is uninsulated and I'd think I'd want to take it with me for the descent particularly if there's precipitation that day.

Looking at the smallest ski packs in the store I'd think the shell alone whould take up considerable volume for the climb up.  A medium (maybe 32L) looks like a better idea.  Your point is taken about initially trying to use a pack I already own.  I have something that might work.... 

For skins I went with K2s.  They sell a line that are specifically for your (K2) model and length.  No cutting needed.  Explained here in the 3rd paragraph:  http://www.offpistemag.com/permalink.asp?id=310


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## awf170 (Nov 6, 2010)

Buy skins, and AT bindings at first.  That's it.  Figure everything out after your first couple of days.  Your first few days "earning turns" you going to be miserably inefficient regardless of how good your gear is.  Your going to be at somewhere not that dangerous (Thunderbolt, closed ski area, Tucks, etc.) so you can figure out what you really need and what you don't without actually putting yourself in a dangerous situation.  Then you will be able to buy gear based on your experiences instead of someone else's.

And IMHO...

Bladder systems suck for the winter.  

Don't get a bigger backpack to put your jacket inside.  You jacket can just be strapped onto your back.


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## redalienx11 (Nov 8, 2010)

awf170 said:


> Your going to be at somewhere not that dangerous...Tucks...



I would argue that for someone just getting into the backcountry Tucks can be very dangerous. Otherwise, good advice!


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## Edd (Nov 9, 2010)

Just got the skins delivered and checking them out.  After you're done hiking up and you remove the skins, do you fold them glue to glue?  There's a mesh sheet included but the instructions indicate that it's intended for long term storage.


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## riverc0il (Nov 9, 2010)

It is kind of a PITA, but I use the sheet even when I am out hiking. Its just easier to remove the skins from the sheet than from each other when you go glue to glue. That said, if its really honking and blowing out there, I'll just go glue to glue for a quick change over. Takes three or four times longer to use the sheet.


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## tjf67 (Nov 9, 2010)

Edd said:


> Just got the skins delivered and checking them out.  After you're done hiking up and you remove the skins, do you fold them glue to glue?  There's a mesh sheet included but the instructions indicate that it's intended for long term storage.



When it is cold out I just stick them together without the mesh. When i get home I hang them to dry and before I put them back in the bag I put the mesh back in.  I am the only one in my group that uses the mesh but i figure they came that way for a reason so I just do it.  

When you hike bring an extra pair of gloves, shirt and hat.  When you get to the top change into the dry clothes.  It is cold as a bitch doing it but make the rest of the day so much better.


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## Edd (Nov 9, 2010)

The sheet is low volume so I'll probably try bringing it along.  The clothes change sounds like a good suggestion.  

Does anyone not bring a shell along for most hikes?  I could see it on a good spring day but it's hard to picture not wearing one while skiing down during winter temps or precip.


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## Cannonball (Nov 9, 2010)

Skins: I don't have the sheet, so I go glue to glue and have never had a major problem.  Helps to have a partner along to pull the things apart.

Shell:  A good shell is usually the most versatile of all your options.  Water proof, wind proof, ventable for hot days, hood, pockets.  It's the only layer that I wouldn't consider leaving behind.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 9, 2010)

looking for a good winter shell now...i've been a marmot fan, checking out some of their shells now..any other suggestions for cold weather shell?


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## Cannonball (Nov 9, 2010)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> looking for a good winter shell now...i've been a marmot fan, checking out some of their shells now..any other suggestions for cold weather shell?



I'm on my second Mountain Hardware.  The first was not Gore-tex and was not all that waterproof (despite their hype).  The one I have now is Gore-tex and is absolutely impervious to wet.  They are cut very slim so not a good fit for everyone.

You say 'cold weather shell'.  My preference has always been to get a non-insulated shell that has room for layers underneath.  I use the same shell for wet summer hikes (with a t-shirt) and brutal cold ski days (with fleece or down).


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## redalienx11 (Nov 9, 2010)

i go glue-to-glue, and it works just fine. after a while touring you will get good at tricks like folding skins so that no glue is exposed, taking skins off skis without taking skis off (impress your friends!!), and efficient ways to put skins on.

as far as shells go, GORE_TEX or eVent seem to have the best reputation. I have not used eVent so i cannot comment. However, there are different types of Goretex...PacLite...ProShell...etc. I do not like PacLite very much. Proshell has treated me VERY well. Avoid Patagonia's proprietary H2No- works well at first, but quickly deteriorates.
And yes, I almost always tour with a shell, even if it never leaves the pack.


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## riverc0il (Nov 9, 2010)

Edd said:


> Does anyone not bring a shell along for most hikes?  I could see it on a good spring day but it's hard to picture not wearing one while skiing down during winter temps or precip.


I bought my first non-insulated shell during this past off season. Prior to this season, I went with base layer, fleece, soft shell (which was not very water proof). I made it work but when things got wet, that system definitely showed its vulnerabilities. Never had a bad outing but certainly far from ideal.

Went with a non-insulated GoreTex Pro shell for this season. Only used it once so far but it is worth the premium. Also going with a wind shirt instead of a fleece this season for a mid-layer. 

I think getting your layering down to a science is one of the hardest parts of touring. Lots of info out there about equipment but the choices for layering are immense and every one is different so no one system is a sure shot for all.


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## snowmonster (Nov 9, 2010)

Edd said:


> Snowmonster, when I search for the Factor I come up with ski boots.  Did you mean to say the Covert or something?



Covert is correct. As for skins, I usually don't bring the cheat sheets although I should since it makes taking them apart easier. Skin to skin can be a PITA especially if your glue is new. Be sure to hang them up to dry at the end of the day. I always carry my shell. You never know. I have an LL Bean Gore Tex Proshell. Very happy with it.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 10, 2010)

looking at skinsdirect for a pair.....i have the marmot ageis jacket for spring/summer/fall rain, dont know how it'd be even with proper layering in -10's temps....


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## skibum9995 (Nov 10, 2010)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> looking at skinsdirect for a pair.....i have the marmot ageis jacket for spring/summer/fall rain, dont know how it'd be even with proper layering in -10's temps....


You should be OK with that shell. I have a Marmot Super Mica that I use year round. When hiking in the winter I usually only wear a thin base layer under it, and leave the vents open. I'll add some light insulation when it gets really cold. It's a bit chilly when first starting out, but I get comfortable pretty quick and it keeps me from sweating.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 11, 2010)

u wear the mica skiing in cold wx too?  much more wind speed skiing than hiking...


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## skibum9995 (Nov 11, 2010)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> u wear the mica skiing in cold wx too?  much more wind speed skiing than hiking...


I wear it year round for pretty much everything, it's my goto shell. I should add that I don't get cold as easily as others, but I haven't had any issues with it yet.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 29, 2010)

skins arrived....now have to put em on....dont want to screw it up


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 6, 2010)

skins are on!  simple and straight forward...got em from climbingskinsdirect....the Firehouse Ale helped too!


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