# Temps in the Whites



## ctenidae (Jul 23, 2006)

How's it been in the mountains around the Kancamangus Hwy? I'm going overnight with my wife and a couple who don't really camp/hike. NOAA says a cold front is coming through on Friday, but do you guys think we'll still be okay with 50 degree bags? I'd really rather not carry any more than I have too (since I'll probably be hauling most of it)


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## Vortex (Jul 24, 2006)

I'll be in the area also.  As long as you don't have alot of elevation you should be fine.  It was 54 in Concord am today.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 24, 2006)

Well, just because it is about 50 F and you have a 50 F sleeping bag does not mean you will be warm.  Is she a "warm" sleeper or a "cold" sleeper?  How many clothes are you going to be wearing to bed?  Not all ratings are consistent.  I think that assuming you are (a) in a cabin or somewhat sheltered, (b) are not wet, (c) not exposed to wind/the elements, (d) that it does not drop below say 45 F, you will be fine.  I'd bring a liner bag or wear long underwear to get some more warmth.


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## ctenidae (Jul 24, 2006)

My wife and I have zip-together 50 degree bags, so I figure we'd be fine in a tent with a dog down to 40 or so, assuming we're dry. I'm not real sure what the other couple has for gear, but we're not going to go that far in, anyway, so an exit shouldn't be too tough in an emergency. 

Anybody walked the Smart Brook Trail off 49 in NH? It joins with the Sandwich Mountain trail at the end. AMC guide says it's 3.5 hours to the junction,  which with this crowd would probably be more like 6, so we're definately not going up that far.


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## David Metsky (Jul 24, 2006)

You are much better off going for a shorter hike with a known view.  Try the Welch-Dickey loop just off 49 as well.  There is some scrambling, so the best bet would be to go counter-clockwise to the ledges overlooking 49 and Sandwich.  That may be enough for your group.  If you are willing to try some scrambling you can continue to the first summit.  Or you can go clockwise and get to the lower ledges on the other side.  Both are great views and will reward the casual hiker.

Another mellow hike is to Greeley Ponds.  The trailhead (Depot Camp) is just past the center of Waterville Valley at the end of the Tripoli Road.  The trail is mellow all the way to the Ponds which have some nice views of East Osceola and the ponds themselves.

 -dave-


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## Vortex (Jul 24, 2006)

Welch-dicky loop is my favorite hike in the region.  Be aware if it rains Friday, the rocks will be slippery am sat.  Very good view for a fairly easy hike.  Thinking about it for Sunday.


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## ctenidae (Jul 24, 2006)

Is Welch-Dickey crowded? We're going to have our dog with us, and while he's not one to go crashing off into the woods on his own, the fewer human-type distractions, the better.

We're also planning to camp out (not in a campground if I can help it). I don't have the topos in front of me- are there good areas off that trail (well, well off, of course)?

I'm a firm believer in LNT, but that may not be entirely possible with an ameteur group, but we will be low, and as close to no as I can get it, impact.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 24, 2006)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> I'm a firm believer in LNT, but that may not be entirely possible with an ameteur group, but we will be low, and as close to no as I can get it, impact.



Well, it depends on how serious you take it I guess.  I know some folks don't "find trees" when they go and "pack it out."  I do not throw litter and pack out other people's trash.  I also stay on the trail and don't destroy plants or animals.  I don't think any of these measures are tough at all and when I've led groups we've had no problems following these basic rules.  

I've got an idea of who you are and I doubt that you would be doing this:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






:lol:  :lol:  

At least I hope....


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## ctenidae (Jul 24, 2006)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> I've got an idea of who you are and I doubt that you would be doing this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gad, I hope not. When my wife and I go out, I drive her nuts re-packaging whatever food we're taking to eliminate excess materials (and weight!). She didn't get it until I kept the bits I was getting rid of and compared that pile to the pile we packed out. I think she understands it now. 

No, my main concern with a group is 2 tents and 4 sets of footprints, more than anything else. People leaving garbage gets me :angry: , which can lead to :argue:  and sometimes :smash:  . I'll be all :x  until I get to :beer:  .


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## riverc0il (Jul 24, 2006)

waterville campground is a WMNF place and nice. can't help you if you are backpacking and looking to pitch a tent off trail. welch dickey is a popular hike that does attract a crowd on a weekend.


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## David Metsky (Jul 24, 2006)

It'll pretty hard to find a reasonable place to camp on the Welch-Dickey Loop.  If you want to camp in the woods you're much better off on Sandwich Dome, but you'll want to set up camp down low.  Keep in mind that you'll be in the Wilderness Area so camping must be 200' from any trail, no cutting of standing wood of any kind, LNT is encouraged.  

Frankly, with newbies I'd much prefer camping at one of the NF campgrounds in the WV area and dayhiking.  In my experience they will enjoy it much more that way.  The WV campgrounds are generally very nice.  I'd avoid Tripoli Road camping, it can get wild and woolly on a Sat night but the others are fine.

Another option would be to come in from the other side and set up camp at Flat Mountain Pond, to the south of Sandwich Dome.  There's a shelter there that doesn't get much use.  Another option is Three Ponds shelter.  Nice secluded camping area near the shelter, ponds to observe and explore a bit, you can cook and hang around the shelter before retiring to your tents for the night.

 -dave-


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## ctenidae (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks, Dave. We've actually been to Tripoli Road once- it was raining off and on and was pretty miserable. Plus, it was crowded, with people constantly walking through. Something I want to avoid.

We've also been to Three Ponds. It was very bugy, and pretty swampy all around the area. With the rain we've had, I imagine it's pretty wet out there. I'd have been fine out there myself, but the wife likes certain comforts (the zipper on the noseeum fly broke when the dog tried to go outside in the middle of the night, so I spent the night being awakened by my wife swatting bugs and the dog freaking out at the bugs. I really should hike by myself more often.)

Sandwich Dome looks pretty good. How's Algonquin Trail? AMC guide says it's pretty steep and rocky. Seems like the ledges at Black Mountain would be good views, then head down Black Mountain Pond Trail and run across grade towards the Mary Cary Falls to camp, or possibly the site of the old shelter at Black Mountain Pond?  Would summiting Sandwich Dome be feasible for people who are in reasonably good shape, if inexperienced?


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## ga2ski (Jul 25, 2006)

David Metsky said:
			
		

> Another option would be to come in from the other side and set up camp at Flat Mountain Pond


 
Flat Mountain Pond is a great shelter, but can be a long hike out is the shelter is full... .  I hiked there in college and the shelter was full.  Lucky for us the 10 MTBers that were there were cool and let us steal some dirt outside of the shelter.


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## David Metsky (Jul 25, 2006)

Algonquin is very nice, the ledges do offer great views but there is a bit of scrambling.  Here's a trip report from a loop I did a few years ago.

Again, the problem will be finding a legal and good camping spot near water.

 -dave-


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## ctenidae (Jul 25, 2006)

_Again, the problem will be finding a legal and good camping spot near water._

The old shelter site at Black Moutnain Pond is, at least according to AMC, out of the widlerness area. I'd rather not be too close to water, but if the shelter site is still flattened, it may be a good spot.


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## David Metsky (Jul 25, 2006)

Black Mountain Pond shelter is still there, as far as I know.  As is Flat Mountain Pond Shelter.  The three shelters removed in that area are Camps Rich, Heermance, and Shehadi.  Camping by the shelter will be fine, it's camping up on the Algonquin trail that I think would be difficult.

 -dave-


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## skibum (Jul 25, 2006)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> Anybody walked the Smart Brook Trail off 49 in NH? It joins with the Sandwich Mountain trail at the end. AMC guide says it's 3.5 hours to the junction,  which with this crowd would probably be more like 6, so we're definately not going up that far.



Hiked it earlier this year. I didn't make it to the top, but wasn't really planning to anyway. Lower portion is very heavily traveled by locals out for a stroll with the dog. Upper portion was getting very overgrown, had to push away many branches and brush in spots. Not many views, I turned around at a stream crossing where I could see ledges above that I considered out of reach with the amount of daylight I had left. 
Smart's Brook Gorge is definitely worth seeing along with the old foundations and abandoned cemetary along Old Waterville Road.


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## Vortex (Jul 25, 2006)

Props to David here. 

 I was just poking around doing some searches here and yes elsewhere.  The most intersting and well explained info all led back to you.  
Moose (new poster) uses you info as well.  Reading on passconoway most recently.  Back to high jacking other threads.


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## MichaelJ (Jul 26, 2006)

ga2ski said:
			
		

> Flat Mountain Pond is a great shelter, but can be a long hike out is the shelter is full... .  I hiked there in college and the shelter was full.  Lucky for us the 10 MTBers that were there were cool and let us steal some dirt outside of the shelter.



There's a very large, grassy lawn to the side of the lean-to where you could put quite a few tents, a few right up next to the shelter and a lot further down low. See my pics here and .

It's a gorgeous spot. You're sure to see or hear moose in the pond in the early morning or late evening.


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