# ski weather 101 / main topics?



## rocojerry (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm looking for some help from the resident ski-weather guru's out there.  This year I'd like to take my understanding of weather in its relation to skiing/snowboarding a bit further....

If you were to write a book, or do a class/presentation on weather + snow geared towards skiers-  what would be the best chapter titles?  Right now, I tend to read the weather guru's posts, and pretty much average them in my head -- but don't really truly develop an opinion on my own.....
You guys may help me out in determining a good order to learn topics and also save some of the more complex topics for later 

I'm ok with it being geared towards Eastern US or US in general. 

ie:  (topics like NAO/AO, upslope, ocean-lake effect, wind direction implications)

Chapter 1: Snow or Sleet -- its not just about surface temps

Chapter 2:


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## 4aprice (Jan 17, 2012)

Weather is so complex and I have no background in it except probably like many I read the weather boards to try and figure out whats going on.  I think you would have to mention the ENSO (La Nina/El Nino) since they can be major players in the patterns world wide.  Like you mentioned the AO/NAO which seem to affect us here in the east. Alot of things that I have little understanding of too, such as, where the Polar Vortex sets up and why (Its been in Alaska this year), the MJO and its phases (some good for us, some bad).  Will be interested to see some of the responses as I'm sure there are many on here much more knowledgable then I.  One thing is for sure, as tough as its been on us skiers/boaders this year, its been tough on the mets as well.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## mriceyman (Jan 17, 2012)

A weather forum might serve u more justice .. there are so many factors that contribute to daily weather conditions it can be overwhelming. But good luck nonetheless


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## WinnChill (Jan 17, 2012)

rocojerry said:


> I'm looking for some help from the resident ski-weather guru's out there.  This year I'd like to take my understanding of weather in its relation to skiing/snowboarding a bit further....
> 
> If you were to write a book, or do a class/presentation on weather + snow geared towards skiers-  what would be the best chapter titles?  Right now, I tend to read the weather guru's posts, and pretty much average them in my head -- but don't really truly develop an opinion on my own.....
> You guys may help me out in determining a good order to learn topics and also save some of the more complex topics for later
> ...



That's cool you're taking an interest in the nuts and bolts of weather and a great idea for a thread.  With many weather terms and concepts being tossed around in very basic forms, we tend to focus on just how it translates to ski/riding days.  I'll take this thread to heart and see what I can add to it.  In fact, some of the info I have from the presentation I did at Billski's ski club last year may be good for starters.  I'll see what I can come up with in the coming weeks and see where it takes us.  

WC


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## rocojerry (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks WC.  You were one of the resident guru's I had in mind and glad you can offer some thoughts 

It may be nice to tie some tools/links to the topics too -- like for example, chapter 1 - snow or sleet: I think the assumption on most weather sites is temperature at 0 ft above altititude for a location.  I'm not even sure how to look at how cold it is estimated to be at 1000 ft above that location in the air.


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## rocojerry (Jan 25, 2012)

Snow Science epsiode IV:  Hard to see the future is.

Planning on the weather for your big ski trip?  



http://www.onthesnow.com/snow-science/travel.html


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 31, 2012)

I loathe Accuweather as a website, but these short point/counterpoint segments they run are actually pretty interesting, and intended for an audience with a low level of knowledge (i.e. they take the time to explain stuff that serious weather wonks would already know).  

They also sometimes disagree with each other at the end after analyzing the same data, which is illustrative of the subjective nature of weather prediction.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-video/winter-break-mid-atlantic-mes/91358901001


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## Tooth (Jan 31, 2012)

WinnChill said:


> That's cool you're taking an interest in the nuts and bolts of weather and a great idea for a thread.  With many weather terms and concepts being tossed around in very basic forms, we tend to focus on just how it translates to ski/riding days.  I'll take this thread to heart and see what I can add to it.  In fact, some of the info I have from the presentation I did at Billski's ski club last year may be good for starters.  I'll see what I can come up with in the coming weeks and see where it takes us.
> 
> WC



Awesome. Teach us Obi one.   I would love this. Maybe get into what the different models are and why each one is good or bad. I try to read some of the American Weather stuff but its a whole other language. Maybe start with an upcoming system brewing somewhere out there and we can follow its path and explain whats going on along the way. I bet this would be very popular. Thanks WinnChill. Any help is cool. Nothing is expected. We know you are very busy.


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## WinnChill (Jan 31, 2012)

Tooth said:


> Awesome. Teach us Obi one.   I would love this. Maybe get into what the different models are and why each one is good or bad. I try to read some of the American Weather stuff but its a whole other language. Maybe start with an upcoming system brewing somewhere out there and we can follow its path and explain whats going on along the way. I bet this would be very popular. Thanks WinnChill. Any help is cool. Nothing is expected. We know you are very busy.



I wish I was Obi-Wan-like...but even he got wacked down.  There are a lot of great/smart folks at American Weather but it can be like drinking from a firehose.  I'm trying to post a condensed version of the ski club presentation but don't really know how to post the Power Point slides on a forum...any suggestions?  I can at least show a few basics like storm structure, upslope, and some patterns.  In progress.....

Thanks Tooth.


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## jaja111 (Jan 31, 2012)

Chapter 87: Methodology of eruptive induction to caldera type volcanoes enabling instigation of ice age.

Chapter 88: Disruptive mechanisms to convective ocean currents to instigate rapid glacial manifestation.

Chapter 89: Techniques in artificial cloud production to reduce absorbed solar radiation.

Chapter 90: and so on and so on and so on.

But is skiing worth breadlines and famine?


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## rocojerry (Feb 1, 2012)

WinnChill said:


> I wish I was Obi-Wan-like...but even he got wacked down.  There are a lot of great/smart folks at American Weather but it can be like drinking from a firehose.  I'm trying to post a condensed version of the ski club presentation but don't really know how to post the Power Point slides on a forum...any suggestions?  I can at least show a few basics like storm structure, upslope, and some patterns.  In progress.....
> 
> Thanks Tooth.



I can host them on a webserver if you want to email me them -- then they would just be links on the thread --   I'm sure there is some free hosts out there as well...


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## ctenidae (Feb 2, 2012)

I find reading the forecast discussions on NOAA's weather.gov to be very useful. Many of the terms are hyperlinked to definitions, and the discussions give you some sense of the interplay of elements.


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## WinnChill (Feb 3, 2012)

rocojerry said:


> I can host them on a webserver if you want to email me them -- then they would just be links on the thread --   I'm sure there is some free hosts out there as well...



Thanks for the info Rocojerry.  Now that you mention it, we're just about to launch our new site and should be able to find some corner of the site to post some pics/explainations.  We actually have a video section so I'll see if we can post something there.  Until then, I may just do some screenshots of the PowerPoint slides and post them here with some brief explainations.

Thanks!


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## ScottySkis (Feb 3, 2012)

WinnChill said:


> Thanks for the info Rocojerry.  Now that you mention it, we're just about to launch our new site and should be able to find some corner of the site to post some pics/explainations.  We actually have a video section so I'll see if we can post something there.  Until then, I may just do some screenshots of the PowerPoint slides and post them here with some brief explainations.
> 
> Thanks!



Mr. Winnchill is great at our new england ski hills, because of his great skills he saved me a great snow day at Smugglers last year and he knew the hour it would turn over and it was probably my greatest ski day last years. Thank you for the help and much success to you on the new site


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## drjeff (Feb 3, 2012)

rocojerry said:


> Thanks WC.  You were one of the resident guru's I had in mind and glad you can offer some thoughts
> 
> It may be nice to tie some tools/links to the topics too -- like for example, chapter 1 - snow or sleet: I think the assumption on most weather sites is temperature at 0 ft above altititude for a location.  I'm not even sure how to look at how cold it is estimated to be at 1000 ft above that location in the air.



Altitude and temperature determination trick here.

Check out the avaiation weather page from the National Weather Service (noaa.gov), they include temperature forcast for multiple elevations.  Really helps a bit if you've got a situation where "warm" air is in the vicinity of an approaching storm so that you can get some feel for what the column of air is like vertically that the storm will be moving into, since as we all know having an expected freezing level down to say 2500 feet verses up at 4000 feet can make a HUGE difference.  

Then after all the info is gathered, the one thing that any forcaster, from the most acclaimed of professional forcaster to the most novice of amateur forcasters has to remember is that mother nature very often will add in a couple (or sometimes a couple of hundred) variables that one just doesn't expect.  And that's where this can be both fun and frustrating


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