# Teen lost at Sugarloaf



## wa-loaf (Mar 4, 2013)

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...-ski-resort/fwiTxamin8tp6RZdsq5ynL/story.html

Doesn't say where he was skiing. Most of Bracket will funnel down to the road. If he went off the back ... not much but wilderness out there.


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## snowmonster (Mar 4, 2013)

I hope he's found safe and sound. Thoughts and prayers.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 4, 2013)

Yikes.  Here is an update:  

http://www.wmtw.com/news/maine/Ward...oaf/-/8792012/19165184/-/y2b3c8z/-/index.html

Not sounding good....


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## gmcunni (Mar 4, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> I hope he's found safe and sound. Thoughts and prayers.


+1


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## thetrailboss (Mar 4, 2013)

I guess no sign of him after today's search.  And they are looking both in and out of bounds.  Scary.  He did not have his cell phone.  Fingers crossed, but there is not even a hint as to where he went.


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## Nick (Mar 4, 2013)

Hopefully he is just at his condo or something messing around.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 4, 2013)

Nick said:


> Hopefully he is just at his condo or something messing around.



Yeah, I don't think so. It was their last run before leaving for Mass.


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## Bene288 (Mar 4, 2013)

I've always looked at the Recco sensors on my boots and thought: "This is kind o wasted on the East coast." It could probably be utilized in a situation like this I would think. I really hope they find him and he has a lick of survival knowledge and a lighter.


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## STREETSKIER (Mar 5, 2013)

Pray for the  young man and family


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## bvibert (Mar 5, 2013)

Looks like they found him

http://www.wmtw.com/news/maine/Miss...loaf/-/8792012/19165184/-/m5d5hm/-/index.html


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## BackLoafRiver (Mar 5, 2013)

Thank goodness. Glad he is ok.

I am going to see if I can catch the news conference at 10:30 to get the details.


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## o3jeff (Mar 5, 2013)

Great news, interested to see where he was.


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## snowmonster (Mar 5, 2013)

Amazing news! So glad for him and his family!


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## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2013)

Great to hear this. Hope he is in good condition.


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## HD333 (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow. Good ending.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2013)

Hearing on the news he skied out of bounds and thought he could get back......built a snow cave and slept in it.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2013)

bvibert said:


> Looks like they found him
> 
> http://www.wmtw.com/news/maine/Miss...loaf/-/8792012/19165184/-/m5d5hm/-/index.html



Wow.  Holy shit!  Great outcome!  I was fearing that this was going to turn into a search and recovery mission.


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## Nick (Mar 5, 2013)

Bene288 said:


> I've always looked at the Recco sensors on my boots and thought: "This is kind o wasted on the East coast." It could probably be utilized in a situation like this I would think. I really hope they find him and he has a lick of survival knowledge and a lighter.



I've never understood WTH the recco sensors actually did. I should google that. How would that apply in a situation like this? What'st he range on the Recco transponder?


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## wa-loaf (Mar 5, 2013)

Are you guys watching it on TV or something because all I can find online are the basics.


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## o3jeff (Mar 5, 2013)

Nick said:


> I've never understood WTH the recco sensors actually did. I should google that. How would that apply in a situation like this? What'st he range on the Recco transponder?



I have one of those sensors that came on my Marker jacket, read about it the other year but don't remember much on it.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> *Are you guys watching it on TV *or something because all I can find online are the basics.



It was on FoxNews.  They interviewed some police dude from Maine.  Apparently the snowpack in the area was about 4.5 to 5 feet, so building a snowcave was probably pretty easy.


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## David Metsky (Mar 5, 2013)

Nick said:


> I've never understood WTH the recco sensors actually did. I should google that. How would that apply in a situation like this? What'st he range on the Recco transponder?


Roughly 20 meters, so it's not going to help find anyone lost on a mountain. While billed as a safety device, it's really a body recovery tool.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 5, 2013)

He is found awesome to hear this.


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## o3jeff (Mar 5, 2013)

http://www.sugarloaf.com/Corporate/Media/PressReleases/Present/2013/Missing_Skier_Alert_5.html


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## loafasaur (Mar 5, 2013)

WMTW has quite a bit of detail. Looks like once this kid realized he was lost he REALLY kept his cool. Built a snow cave and stayed in it 2 nights. He stayed put waiting to be rescued. He didn't get sweaty and exhausted--probably saved his own life that way. One infers that he made excursions from his cave looking for a way out but made staying put a priority. He eventually found snowshoe tracks near his cave and followed them to Caribou Pond Rd.
http://www.wmtw.com/news/maine/Snow...loaf/-/8792012/19165184/-/ncs65q/-/index.html

Sounds like a searcher came real close without finding him. Airhorns, maybe?

Wonderful ending to a grim story.


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 5, 2013)

I have a whistle in my jacket and actually,a much louder one with my fingers.


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## billski (Mar 5, 2013)

David Metsky said:


> Roughly 20 meters, so it's not going to help find anyone lost on a mountain. While billed as a safety device, it's really a body recovery tool.


Sales and marketing "feature".  
Impress you friends status symbol when you can't afford Bogner


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## billski (Mar 5, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> I have a whistle in my jacket and actually,a much louder one with my fingers.



I was in a situation last year when a hiking party accidentally split into two.  Both sides were whistling, neither heard the other.  They were on opposite sides of a 70' high hill.


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## octopus (Mar 5, 2013)

glad he's ok. see, tv is good for you.


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## riverc0il (Mar 5, 2013)

billski said:


> Sales and marketing "feature".
> Impress you friends status symbol when you can't afford Bogner


Many regularly priced jackets have them built in, it isn't an optional feature. Mine has one. Quite frankly, I wish it wasn't there but what ev's.


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## Bene288 (Mar 5, 2013)

Nick said:


> I've never understood WTH the recco sensors actually did. I should google that. How would that apply in a situation like this? What'st he range on the Recco transponder?



From what I've read they deploy an aerial signal from a helicopter and it's supposed to bounce back an give a general idea of where the sensor is located. It's a passive sensor, meaning it doesn't need a battery.

Really glad the found the kid.


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## noreasterbackcountry (Mar 6, 2013)

I really thought this was going to end badly.  Teenagers aren't exactly known for keeping their cool and making great decisions but this kid is a case study on what to do after you get lost.  I'm really glad for his family and hope ALOT of people hear his story so that it gets drilled into their heads:

Even though your instinct is to search and search and search for a way out... Most of the time after you get hopelessly lost your best bet at survival is securing water and shelter and staying put until conditions improve or searchers locate you.


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## billski (Mar 6, 2013)

The sad thing is that he had learned these techniques through reality TV.  It's too bad they won't pay attention to real training.  I guess that's the way to do it.  Embed the knowledge into their heads without them even knowing it.

It's too bad you can't get them to stop making bad decision to begin with.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2013)

billski said:


> It's too bad you can't get them to stop making bad decision to begin with.



From what I've heard it sounds like this kid made an honest mistake and did not realize, until it was too late, that he had followed a set of tracks out of bounds.  I could be wrong, or there may be more recent info, but the Wardens made it sound like he was not clearly in the wrong here or intentionally riding out of bounds, which is in contrast to the many other folks that we have been discussing this year who knowingly went out of bounds (past obvious signs and fences) and got in over their heads.

I'm willing to bet that Sugarloaf ski patrol will be going along that boundary now and checking their markers/signage in order to prevent other folks from doing the same thing.


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> From what I've heard it sounds like this kid made an honest mistake and did not realize, until it was too late, that he had followed a set of tracks out of bounds.  I could be wrong, or there may be more recent info, but the Wardens made it sound like he was not clearly in the wrong here or intentionally riding out of bounds, which is in contrast to the many other folks that we have been discussing this year who knowingly went out of bounds (past obvious signs and fences) and got in over their heads.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that Sugarloaf ski patrol will be going along that boundary now and checking their markers/signage in order to prevent other folks from doing the same thing.



Well he was skiing in trees/woods/glades alone which is a mistake.


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## dmc (Mar 6, 2013)

3 in the trees


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## wa-loaf (Mar 6, 2013)

dmc said:


> 3 in the trees



4 on the floor?


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## gmcunni (Mar 6, 2013)

A little surprised that a 17 YO didn't have a cellphone on him.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> A little surprised that a 17 YO didn't have a cellphone on him.



You sure he didnt?   May not have been any signal up in Maine.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 6, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> A little surprised that a 17 YO didn't have a cellphone on him.





BenedictGomez said:


> You sure he didnt?   May not have been any signal up in Maine.



Think they said his battery was dead.


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## gmcunni (Mar 6, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> You sure he didnt?   May not have been any signal up in Maine.





wa-loaf said:


> Think they said his battery was dead.



i had the impression from some early reports that he didn't have one but i could be wrong.


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## Angus (Mar 6, 2013)

I've hiked in the summer to the summit via the AT from the road the kid was found on. At the summit and heading down parallel to the trails, there is a 4-8' clear cut that I've been told is intended to serve as a boundary line for the ski resort. I'm not sure how far down it runs but one can assume he entered the woods down from summit. Down below the Timberline lift, the woods are pretty thick.

Young man got really lucky, all the local boston stations have been reporting how bad the weather was...but a low of 18 degrees in early March is warm at Sugarloaf. Like a lot of things in life, it's not the first mistake made that gets you killed but the compounding of bad mistake followed by another bad decision followed by another. He seems to have made one poor decision and thought very clearly once he realized he was in a pickle.


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 6, 2013)

I have a little issue with this.First,what the hell are you doing on the last run of the day going off alone into unknown terrain?The snowfields are not a place to be in bad visability unless you are very familiar with that area.Second how could he get to the western(back) side of the mountain without heading way off the usual direction?Again,why would you attempt this alone,on a last run?Lastly,I'm glad he's ok but it bugs me that he's getting this heros welcome home in Mass after doing something pretty dumb imo.


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## ceo (Mar 6, 2013)

He might not have had cell signal. Coverage is pretty spotty around there if you don't have LOS to the tower on the summit.


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## timm (Mar 6, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> I have a little issue with this.First,what the hell are you doing on the last run of the day going off alone into unknown terrain?The snowfields are not a place to be in bad visability unless you are very familiar with that area.Second how could he get to the western(back) side of the mountain without heading way off the usual direction?Again,why would you attempt this alone,on a last run?Lastly,I'm glad he's ok but it bugs me that he's getting this heros welcome home in Mass after doing something pretty dumb imo.



Agree on all counts.


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## gmcunni (Mar 6, 2013)

i was looking at a map of the area, the road he was found on is very long. did anyone see a specific location where he was found?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Carib...326405&spn=0.033537,0.084543&t=h&z=14&vpsrc=6


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## o3jeff (Mar 6, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> I have a little issue with this.First,what the hell are you doing on the last run of the day going off alone into unknown terrain?The snowfields are not a place to be in bad visability unless you are very familiar with that area.Second how could he get to the western(back) side of the mountain without heading way off the usual direction?Again,why would you attempt this alone,on a last run?Lastly,I'm glad he's ok but it bugs me that he's getting this heros welcome home in Mass after doing something pretty dumb imo.


I thought I read this happened around noon time, it was their last run of the day before heading home.


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## soposkier (Mar 6, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> I have a little issue with this.First,what the hell are you doing on the last run of the day going off alone into unknown terrain?The snowfields are not a place to be in bad visability unless you are very familiar with that area.Second how could he get to the western(back) side of the mountain without heading way off the usual direction?Again,why would you attempt this alone,on a last run?Lastly,I'm glad he's ok but it bugs me that he's getting this heros welcome home in Mass after doing something pretty dumb imo.



This article has some graphics http://www.pressherald.com/news/Missing-teen-found-alive-near-Sugaloaf.html.

He was not in the snowfields.  The area where people have gotten lost in the past skiing of the 'backside' of the mtn is a different drainage basin than where this guy ended up.  There is a marked glade on the skiers left of the timberline trail abutting the boundary line.  Maybe he followed some tracks that kept on going left and did not see any boundary signag?  I haven't been in there this year so can't comment on how well marked the boundary is, but usually Sugarloaf does a really good job of making it clear where the boundary line is.  I agree with your last point though,  he made the initial bad choice to go into unknown terrain,  Its a great story he made it out alive, but I've got to believe the ski area boundary was pretty well marked.


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## riverc0il (Mar 6, 2013)

Here come all the MMQBs that never have gone out of bounds and learned a lesson themselves. Oh yea, right, we've all been there but we've just been fortunate (or had a better sense of direction) to avoid the trouble this young lad fell into. I've yet to see anything that suggested this guy did something like the Killington fools did, skiing off the backside of the mountain intentionally. Probably was just following tracks and didn't have the mindset to reoriented and get back on trail when things went poorly. I've schwacked through enough trees to know it is an easy mistake to make. Without knowing more information, I think it is poor form passing judgment, especially if you've ever gone past the boundary ropes solo without someone to show you...


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## timm (Mar 6, 2013)

I understand not wanting to MMQB but the incident as described doesn't sound like bad luck or a calculated risk gone bad, but obvious recklessness. We have all obviously taken risks and done things that could have gone bad or been criticized with hindsight. To me the thing that puts it over the line is that (according to reports) it was there very end of the day when he did this. That going out alone off trail without map, compass or survival supplies at the close of the day is a really bad idea should be obvious to anyone.


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## ALLSKIING (Mar 6, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> Here come all the MMQBs that never have gone out of bounds and learned a lesson themselves. Oh yea, right, we've all been there but we've just been fortunate (or had a better sense of direction) to avoid the trouble this young lad fell into. I've yet to see anything that suggested this guy did something like the Killington fools did, skiing off the backside of the mountain intentionally. Probably was just following tracks and didn't have the mindset to reoriented and get back on trail when things went poorly. I've schwacked through enough trees to know it is an easy mistake to make. Without knowing more information, I think it is poor form passing judgment, especially if you've ever gone past the boundary ropes solo without someone to show you...


+1


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## riverc0il (Mar 6, 2013)

timm said:


> I understand not wanting to MMQB but the incident as described doesn't sound like bad luck or a calculated risk gone bad, but obvious recklessness. We have all obviously taken risks and done things that could have gone bad or been criticized with hindsight. To me the thing that puts it over the line is that (according to reports) it was there very end of the day when he did this. That going out alone off trail without map, compass or survival supplies at the close of the day is a really bad idea should be obvious to anyone.


I'll step up to the plate on this one. I've done reckless stuff. I've thought better of it afterwards. Maybe I haven't crossed a boundary rope following a track at 3pm on my last run before. Maybe I've done something even more reckless, perhaps. I don't know. It is fine to look at this case for a lesson that we can gleam. But some folks are being a touch hostile and judgmental. We're all in this glass house together. Let's look for the lesson without throwing stones.


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## timm (Mar 6, 2013)

I can agree with that and I give this kid credit for at least having the skills and brains to build a shelter and survive.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2013)

I thought it was noon, or was that reported wrong?   Not that it makes too much difference really.  Kid was still irresponsibly dumb, but that frequently goes with the 17 year old territory.


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## timm (Mar 6, 2013)

I read end of day but maybe it just meant the father and son were taking their last run?


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## wa-loaf (Mar 6, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> I thought it was noon, or was that reported wrong?   Not that it makes too much difference really.  Kid was still irresponsibly dumb, but that frequently goes with the 17 year old territory.





timm said:


> I read end of day but maybe it just meant the father and son were taking their last run?



They split up for one last run and the kid was supposed to meet his dad at 1:30 to head home. It was not the end of the day.


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## marcski (Mar 6, 2013)

Does anyone know if the kid was familiar with the 'loaf?  Makes a difference if you are and know where you're going (generally) when you duck a rope.


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## riverc0il (Mar 6, 2013)

marcski said:


> Does anyone know if the kid was familiar with the 'loaf?  Makes a difference if you are and know where you're going (generally) when you duck a rope.


I go off map all the time at mountains I am not familiar with. 

Generalizations aren't going to help any one. Let's talk about going off map and what you need to know when going where you've never been before. 

I think the take away here is that if you are going to follow tracks into the woods, you need to have a toolbox of basic navigational skills and the good sense to know when to cut back in the direction of the last known trail. The problem with that is some topography can drop off a ridge making traversing back extremely difficult. 

The best thing to do is to scout it out and go out gradually each time after many laps, stay close to start and then go further. Only blindly follow tracks if you know where they will end (you know the entrance and exit location, just not what is in between).

Also the volume of tracks tells a lot... if there is one or two tracks, the people that made those tracks either know sometime everyone else doesn't know (perhaps something you need to know to navigate) or those people know absolutely nothing. A lot of tracks is almost always a safe sign... but you need to stay with those tracks, at least your first time down.

I go off map a lot. I often seek out new areas that I've never skied. I'm not afraid to drop into a line without tracks that I've never skied. But I have enough experience and a toolkit to stay safe. We don't know what was in this kid's toolkit. But it serves as a good reminder to review our tools and see if we might need a few additional.


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## ceo (Mar 6, 2013)

If the weather that day was the same as on the news report I saw from Monday, I would have no problem believing that he simply lost the trail; it was socked in all the way down to the top of Double Runner long side. Last year when it was like that I went to go down Narrow Gauge Extension and was surprised at how steep it was; didn't figure out until I reached the crosscut that I was on Gondola Line.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 7, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> I'll step up to the plate on this one. I've done reckless stuff. I've thought better of it afterwards. Maybe I haven't crossed a boundary rope following a track at 3pm on my last run before. Maybe I've done something even more reckless, perhaps. I don't know. It is fine to look at this case for a lesson that we can gleam. But some folks are being a touch hostile and judgmental. We're all in this glass house together. Let's look for the lesson without throwing stones.



I have also done very stupid things....came within probably an hour of taking out my cell phone and having to call for a helicopter rescue. Luckily, I was able to find my way back to safety. I made a really dumb decision in bad weather condition on terrain I was unfamiliar with. Unfortunately, these incidents are becoming all to frequent and share a common thread. What the solution is I don't know but I hope it raises more awareness for both skiers and resorts that this has become a problem and we need to come up with a plan.


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