# School bans tag, chase games



## hammer (Oct 18, 2006)

This one really gets me...

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10101878/detail.html


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## cbcbd (Oct 18, 2006)

That's it, when I have kids I'll move back to Brasil and raise them there... then move back here when they're older.


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## dmc (Oct 18, 2006)

I guess the old "Kill the man with the ball" game is out of the question too...

Wow - _(I don't want to suggest i know anything about raising kids because i don't have them)_ - Are we raising a country of veals or what...?


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## 2knees (Oct 18, 2006)

its ridiculous.  think of all the stupid games you used to play.  some at school and some out of the eyes of parents.   

dodgeball
rock soccer
roman candle tag
tackle football without pads

i could think of a million things we did that kids would probably get practically arrested for these days.  no wonder so many kids are obese.


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## ctenidae (Oct 18, 2006)

I guess smear the queer is right out, then.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> I guess the old "Kill the man with the ball" game is out of the question too...
> 
> Wow - _(I don't want to suggest i know anything about raising kids because i don't have them)_ - Are we raising a country of veals or what...?



Seems that way.  Next thing you know recess time at school will be replaced with Play Station 2 or X Box time.


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## kickstand (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> IAre we raising a country of veals or what...?



We're raising a country of wimps is what we're doing.  God forbid a kid trips and falls, or runs into another kid.  The next step is to ban recess altogether because it is inevitable someone will hurt themself.

The sad part of this is the school's reasoning for doing this is spot-on.  Some kid would break an ankle or bang their head and need stitches, and if it were the wrong kid, the parents would turn around and sue the school.  Frickin sad state of affairs......

btw, is "veals" another word for "wimps"?


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## Greg (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> Wow - _(I don't want to suggest i know anything about raising kids because i don't have them)_ - Are we raising a country of veals or what...?


I agree with you, but let it go.


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## Paul (Oct 18, 2006)

Unfortunately, I know asshats just like this. My neighbors pick-up and drop-off their 7 year-old  boy to and from school instead of letting him take the bus. They won't let him play outside in the yard unless he is *directly* supervised. Seriously, they think that they can protect him from everything. The mother is a PTA board member, and volunteers at the school constantly, all so she can helicopter over him. Everything in this kid's life is micro-managed by mommy. He also isn't allowed to play sports, as he supposedly has asthma, yet no one has EVER witnessed an attack, although they alledge he has them often. 

And Doug, everyone is entitled to opine on child-raising, we were all raised so we all have some perspective. However, parenting is an extreemly difficult, yet rewarding, task. We parents are constantly second-guessing ourselves and wondering if what we're doing is in our child's best interests. You'll have to excuse us if we tend to get a little defensive, it can get pretty nerve-racking.


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## Paul (Oct 18, 2006)

ctenidae said:


> I guess smear the queer is right out, then.



You can play that in Indiana, but only if you go to the "Special" class....

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.php?id=38466&adid=city


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## hammer (Oct 18, 2006)

2knees said:


> its ridiculous.  think of all the stupid games you used to play.  some at school and some out of the eyes of parents.
> 
> dodgeball
> rock soccer
> ...


What are "rock soccer" and "roman candle tag"?

I'd guess that games like bombardment would also be right out (although I don't remember playing that until High School and I usually got nailed...)


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2006)

We used to play dodgeball with volleyballs.  Our gym teacher used to call it animal ball.  The court was divided in thirds so that you can pin your opponents into the last third of the court.  Head shots were the way to go because they got the best reaction from the crowd.  When we picked teams I always went for the baseball players and QBs.


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## dmc (Oct 18, 2006)

Paul said:


> And Doug, everyone is entitled to opine on child-raising, we were all raised so we all have some perspective. However, parenting is an extreemly difficult, yet rewarding, task. We parents are constantly second-guessing ourselves and wondering if what we're doing is in our child's best interests. You'll have to excuse us if we tend to get a little defensive, it can get pretty nerve-racking.



Word... just poking fun..


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## 2knees (Oct 18, 2006)

hammer said:


> What are "rock soccer" and "roman candle tag"?
> 
> I'd guess that games like bombardment would also be right out (although I don't remember playing that until High School and I usually got nailed...)




rock soccer is soccer with a rock. used to play that at recess in elementary school.  why?  i have no idea.  

roman candle tag we used to play with some of the older kids in our neighborhood.  Dress up in layers of ratty old clothes, wear a bike helmet and goggles and shoot roman candles at each other.  stupid for sure but i'm still alive.


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## Greg (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> Word... just poking fun..



D - are you still not accepting PMs? You know you can check "Receive Private Messages only from Buddies", right? I tried to PM you.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2006)

2knees said:


> rock soccer is soccer with a rock. used to play that at recess in elementary school.  why?  i have no idea.
> 
> roman candle tag we used to play with some of the older kids in our neighborhood.  Dress up in layers of ratty old clothes, wear a bike helmet and goggles and shoot roman candles at each other.  stupid for sure but i'm still alive.



Bottle rocket fights were great too.  The fun was in running away, we rarely connected....


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## dmc (Oct 18, 2006)

Greg said:


> D - are you still not accepting PMs? You know you can check "Receive Private Messages only from Buddies", right? I tried to PM you.



Not after i found out that people I didn't really care to get PM's from can still send me PMs...   I'm a control freak like that...


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## 2knees (Oct 18, 2006)

Grassi21 said:


> Bottle rocket fights were great too.  The fun was in running away, we rarely connected....




lol we used to break the sticks off them, light them and run like hell.  I wont repeat what we used to call them but you had absolutely no idea where they would go.


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## Greg (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> Not after i found out that people I didn't really care to get PM's from can still send me PMs...   I'm a control freak like that...



I guess I must be on that list. Are you saying the "buddy list" feature doesn't work?

It wasn't really important - just wanted to check in...


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2006)

2knees said:


> lol we used to break the sticks off them, light them and run like hell.  I wont repeat what we used to call them but you had absolutely no idea where they would go.



I know what you are talking about.  

I can't believe the stupid crap we used to do as kids.  Jumping off of train tressels into the reservoir, hiking up Turkey Mtn. at midnight, jumping off of roof tops on snow days, get pulled behind a truck in a snowy parking lot, burn our arms with stoggies or cigs (not self mutilation, but to see who could handle the pain), and then there is the drinking....


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## dmc (Oct 18, 2006)

Anybody remember the "polish cannon"?

A few old style coke cans, duct tape, tennis balls and some lighter fluid...

Cut the top and bottom off of three of the cans...
Leave the 4th whole but punch a little hole on the bottom side...  Duct tape the cans together with the 4th at the bottom..
Put some lighter fluid in the little hole...  Stuff a tennis ball in...
Swing the contraption above your head a few times to turn the fluid into gas - put it on the ground,....  and light...

gooood fun...


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## Greg (Oct 18, 2006)

Grassi21 said:


> get pulled behind a truck in a snowy parking lot


We used to call that skitchin'... Did it quite a bit in college... :lol:


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## roark (Oct 18, 2006)

I'd probably go to jail for the things we did in High School now... and it hasn't been that long... :roll:


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## JimG. (Oct 18, 2006)

Grassi21 said:


> Seems that way.  Next thing you know recess time at school will be replaced with Play Station 2 or X Box time.



Yes, that's right...

Because it's wrong to play games that are exclusionary or discriminatory or that have a winner or loser...

But it's perfectly OK to play games that simulate murder, death, drug dealing, car theft, war and carnage in general and get fat and sluglike in the process.

What's wrong with you?


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## Paul (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> Anybody remember the "polish cannon"?
> 
> A few old style coke cans, duct tape, tennis balls and some lighter fluid...
> 
> ...




Did "Spud guns" using PVC pipe instead.

Same concept...


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## dmc (Oct 18, 2006)

Paul said:


> Did "Spud guns" using PVC pipe instead.
> 
> Same concept...



I spent most of my young days attempting to launch things...  I think it was a part of growing up in the 60's and watching the rockets take off on TV.....


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## hammer (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> I spent most of my young days attempting to launch things...  I think it was a part of growing up in the 60's and watching the rockets take off on TV.....


Isn't the latest launch thing with Diet Coke and Mentos?

I saw them do that on Mythbusters...cool...


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## Paul (Oct 18, 2006)

The father of one of my best friends worked as an Engineering contractor for NASA and the DoD. He had all kinds of cool things we used to turn into implements of destruction. One of the best were large capacators that we used to discharge, and make arc, and even blow-up. We also used to make bombs out of leaf bags and Acetelyne gas. 

You know, good, wholesome kidstuff....


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## Paul (Oct 18, 2006)

hammer said:


> Isn't the latest launch thing with Diet Coke and Mentos?
> 
> I saw them do that on Mythbusters...cool...



Do a search on YouTube for that, some pretty entertaining vids of the stupidity of humanity, especially the dolts who try to mix it in their stomachs...uke:


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## kickstand (Oct 18, 2006)

Greg said:


> We used to call that skitchin'... Did it quite a bit in college... :lol:



We used to call it Bumper Skiing -  very appropriate for this web site......


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## 2knees (Oct 18, 2006)

dmc said:


> I spent most of my young days attempting to launch things...  I think it was a part of growing up in the 60's and watching the rockets take off on TV.....




lol i lit a model rocket off in my bedroom.  class c engine i think.  my room smelled like sulfur for a month.


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## cbcbd (Oct 18, 2006)

I have fond memories of playing with gunpowder as a kid - blowing stuff up, collecting gunpowder from smaller explosives to make a big explosive, making gunpowder trails and setting them off...

I love the smell of burning gunpowder 

Aah, those were the days...

...and it looks like I passed natural selection - we all did. From here on the bar has been lowered


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## Marc (Oct 18, 2006)

Grassi21 said:


> Bottle rocket fights *are* great too.



Fixed that for ya...


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## Marc (Oct 18, 2006)

Meh, in elementary school, all the playground equipment was made from scrap telephone pole bolted together with 1" lag hardware, no protection on anything.

I'm still alive.





And to boot, look how great I turned out!


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## Mike P. (Oct 18, 2006)

Without reading the article, (but my wife is a PE major & teacher & went to the school & had the professor who in New England is credited with creating the list of games in the Hall of Shame)

The object is that most of these games don't positively involve all the kids, you get the small kids inside & you bean the living cr@P out of them.  The slow kid is always it.  If kids do it at recess it's one thing, they decide on their own & kids don't have to play.

When an adult makes it manadatory to participate & then does not monitor the game, thats not Physical Education, that's recess.  

PE should be about learning skills & movements, having fun & getting exercise.  In a day & age where  there is more of a descrepancy between the weak & the strong  (A kid who stays back in 2nd or third grade may be significantly bigger & stronger than the Smith Triplets who were born many weeks premature) whipping balls at each other's heads as a class room activity is just wrong.  That does not mean the kids get fat & lazy, it means the teachers don't reinforce the pecking order  You get them to enjoy physical actvity so they want to go for a hike, a bike ride or play a sport. 

BTW, we just to play war, cowboys & indians (read native americans all you PC types) & if you did not have a toy gun you used a stick.  Also in our version of bombardment, while I had a poor arm I was very agile (at 12) so often times I would be left against the bully, he could throw but man, he was slow.

As one of the kids who was bullied, oddly as we grew up, most of us grew bigger than the bullies (another lesson showing being cool & smoking butts as a 12-15 year old stunts your growth) & in the winter we would get together & go through their hang out places loaded with snowballs.  (Now they probably would be armed)  Another we played no-rules Wallyball with for six or seven years & while he could still dish it out, he was our favorit person to block, some weeks I had net burns on my armpits & we had to reinforce the nets with Bungee cords, not the cute multi-colored ones but the black rubber ones.  (I had to stop playing that because he caused havoc with playing real volleyball & trying to stay out of the net)


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 18, 2006)

Even tho me and my buddies are old farts we still like to shoot off a few bottle rockets when we get together...kind of a tradition from our college days. A couple of weeks ago we partied abit and blew a few off for old times sake. 

We are on a dirt road in Vermont but  we could hear in the distance a dog barking everytime we lit one up.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2006)

Marc said:


> Fixed that for ya...



Thanks.  What was I thinking?


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## BeanoNYC (Oct 18, 2006)

anyone play "asses up" as a kid?  ...Man that game was painful.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2006)

BeanoNYC said:


> anyone play "asses up" as a kid?  ...Man that game was painful.



Is that a loaded question?  I don't want to answer.  ;-)


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## John84 (Oct 18, 2006)

BeanoNYC said:


> anyone play "asses up" as a kid?  ...Man that game was painful.



Were you a page when you were younger?


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## hammer (Oct 18, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> Without reading the article, (but my wife is a PE major & teacher & went to the school & had the professor who in New England is credited with creating the list of games in the Hall of Shame)
> 
> The object is that most of these games don't positively involve all the kids, you get the small kids inside & you bean the living cr@P out of them.  The slow kid is always it.  If kids do it at recess it's one thing, they decide on their own & kids don't have to play.
> 
> When an adult makes it manadatory to participate & then does not monitor the game, thats not Physical Education, that's recess.



The article said that these games were being prohibited during recess because of the "hazards associated with chasing" and the chance that "inappropriate touching" would take place.

I actually agree with Mike P. in the case of PE classes -- they need to include activities that encourage all kids, regardless of athletic ability, to participate.  This situation, however, sounds like one in which the school is being forced to prohibit these games during recess out of fear of lawsuits.


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## JimG. (Oct 19, 2006)

Well, I was a big fan of launching stuff or blowing stuff up. 

My favorite launching tool was the 3 man funnelator. Take a large funnel, cut 2 small holes into the funnel on each side on the diameter, and double up two 12 foot long pieces of surgical tubing through the holes. You'll get a 6 foot doubled up elastic cords on each side of the funnel.

One man on each side of the funnel holds the cords (make sure these 2 participants stand at least 12 feet apart) while the third man pulls back on the funnel until the cords are fully stretched. Now put a water ballon into the funnel. Release!

I believe our record launch was about 300 yards. Depended on the angle of launch.


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## Paul (Oct 19, 2006)

I agree with Mike P and Hammer, _to a degree_

Yes, PE like any other class in school should be inclusive. All kids need to participate, and, for the most part, the playing field should be somewhat level. The purpose is to encourage kids to learn about the world through being active, not just passively reading about it etc... However, like any other class, PE serves as a barometer for kids to learn more about things they like, and don't like, what they're good at, and what they're not good at. It also is a good way to introduce competition, in a rational, supervised way. It teaches kids how to compete to win, and how to take a loss with grace and dignity. (something which is also being quickly eradicated) I was a short, skinny kid growing-up. And I got the shat kicked out of me in Gym class. I was okay at baseball, but sucked eggs at basketball, football, etc... But I used the experience to learn not to give-up, and to find sports/activities that I was better suited to. I joined the swim team, and placed in the New England championships. I won and placed in various Wrestling tournaments, I played tennis, I skied, I hiked, etc.... If the Banaholics were around when I was a kid, I likely never would have done any of those things. I would have been enabled to not have to compete, not have to "survive" and most importantly, would not have had to find a way into the top of the pecking order. Ironically, getting my ass handed to me everyday by the bigger, stronger kids only made me use my head even more to find a way to become one of the "popular" kids.
Pecking orders et al will never go away, they are a function of society. The only way that kids will grow-up and be able to compete (in the job market, global business etc) is if we (as a society) STOP CODDLING THEM. Kids that get picked-on need to learn how to best the bullies (and NOT in a Columbine way, either) and that is not going to happen if we shield them from all bad experiences. We as parents need to guide them, and give them advise, but not interfere. Let kids work things out with each other, and be there for them as often as humanly possible to help them learn. But we need to stop doing everything FOR them.


/rant off
//We really are witnessing the decline of Western Civilization
///Loves me some slashies!!!


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## JimG. (Oct 19, 2006)

Paul said:


> I agree with Mike P and Hammer, _to a degree_
> 
> Yes, PE like any other class in school should be inclusive. All kids need to participate, and, for the most part, the playing field should be somewhat level. The purpose is to encourage kids to learn about the world through being active, not just passively reading about it etc... However, like any other class, PE serves as a barometer for kids to learn more about things they like, and don't like, what they're good at, and what they're not good at. It also is a good way to introduce competition, in a rational, supervised way. It teaches kids how to compete to win, and how to take a loss with grace and dignity. (something which is also being quickly eradicated) I was a short, skinny kid growing-up. And I got the shat kicked out of me in Gym class. I was okay at baseball, but sucked eggs at basketball, football, etc... But I used the experience to learn not to give-up, and to find sports/activities that I was better suited to. I joined the swim team, and placed in the New England championships. I won and placed in various Wrestling tournaments, I played tennis, I skied, I hiked, etc.... If the Banaholics were around when I was a kid, I likely never would have done any of those things. I would have been enabled to not have to compete, not have to "survive" and most importantly, would not have had to find a way into the top of the pecking order. Ironically, getting my ass handed to me everyday by the bigger, stronger kids only made me use my head even more to find a way to become one of the "popular" kids.
> Pecking orders et al will never go away, they are a function of society. The only way that kids will grow-up and be able to compete (in the job market, global business etc) is if we (as a society) STOP CODDLING THEM. Kids that get picked-on need to learn how to best the bullies (and NOT in a Columbine way, either) and that is not going to happen if we shield them from all bad experiences. We as parents need to guide them, and give them advise, but not interfere. Let kids work things out with each other, and be there for them as often as humanly possible to help them learn. But we need to stop doing everything FOR them.
> ...



I thank you for this dose of sanity. EVERYONE gets their ass kicked at something at some point in life. You had better learn how to deal with it.

You know, the skinny geeks who got their butts kicked in PE are the ones who grew up and became technology billionaires. So who is laughing now?

Life is tough...kids had better get tough. That's the way I raise my kids. NO CODDLING HERE. Guess what? We have never had any bullying issues with any of my sons, either them giving it out or taking it.


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## hammer (Oct 19, 2006)

JimG. said:


> Life is tough...kids had better get tough. That's the way I raise my kids. NO CODDLING HERE. Guess what? We have never had any bullying issues with any of my sons, either them giving it out or taking it.


I agree with this with one exception -- if there's a risk of significant personal injury or property damage then it's time for parents to intervene.

Case in point:
Kid gets into argument with other kid
Other kid threatens to come to house with paintball gun
I had this happen and yes, I did intervene...

The other important thing to do is always be there for your kids...don't coddle them, but don't be down on them if they are getting picked on either.


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## Paul (Oct 19, 2006)

hammer said:


> I agree with this with one exception -- if there's a risk of significant personal injury or property damage then it's time for parents to intervene.
> 
> Case in point:
> Kid gets into argument with other kid
> ...



Absolutely. 

If the kids get into an argument that you are able to notice, then yes, monitor it, and when it escalates beyond what you think your kid can handle, then absolutely intervene. Not trying to sound like I just throw the kid to the wolves, but I do think we owe it to then to try to solve their own problems first.

Any kid threatens to come to the house, yeah, I'm getting involved. Now yer messin' wit' MY <stuff>:flame:


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## Paul (Oct 19, 2006)

JimG. said:


> I thank you for this dose of sanity. EVERYONE gets their ass kicked at something at some point in life. You had better learn how to deal with it.
> 
> You know, the skinny geeks who got their butts kicked in PE are the ones who grew up and became technology billionaires. So who is laughing now?
> 
> Life is tough...kids had better get tough. That's the way I raise my kids. NO CODDLING HERE. Guess what? We have never had any bullying issues with any of my sons, either them giving it out or taking it.



Competition is VERY important. If Bill Gates didn't get stuffed in a locker, he wouldn't have had to drive to make Microsoft what it is today. It would've been just any other company.

I tells ya what, you don't see kids in Japan or China being spoon-fed, and hand-held. What happens when one of this generation's little darlings is trying to negotiate with an adamant Chinese government 30 years from now?
"Moooommmyyyyyyy.....Xing zau ming won't give me my hostages back!!!"


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## ctenidae (Oct 19, 2006)

We're all doomed.

That is all.


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## Paul (Oct 19, 2006)

ctenidae said:


> We're all doomed.
> 
> That is all.



That's why I like watching "Rome" on HBO so much.

We're in a historical re-run, We've been syndicated!!! EVERYBODY PANIC!!!


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## JimG. (Oct 19, 2006)

hammer said:


> I agree with this with one exception -- if there's a risk of significant personal injury or property damage then it's time for parents to intervene.
> 
> Case in point:
> Kid gets into argument with other kid
> ...



To me this stuff goes without saying; this is being a parent. But that's me.

Totally agree.


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## Mike P. (Oct 19, 2006)

From Law.com

Tag, you're out! 
Officials at an elementary school south of Boston have banned kids from playing tag, touch football and any other unsupervised chase game during recess for fear they'll get hurt and hold the school liable. 
Recess is "a time when accidents can happen," said Willett Elementary School Principal Gaylene Heppe, who approved the ban. 
While there is no districtwide ban on contact sports during recess, local rules have been cropping up. Several school administrators around Attleboro, Mass., a city of about 45,000 residents, took aim at dodgeball a few years ago, saying it was exclusionary and dangerous. 
Elementary schools in Cheyenne, Wyo., and Spokane, Wash., also recently banned tag during recess. A suburban Charleston, S.C., school outlawed all unsupervised contact sports. 
"I think that it's unfortunate that kids' lives are micromanaged and there are social skills they'll never develop on their own," said Debbie Laferriere, who has two children at Willett, about 40 miles south of Boston. "Playing tag is just part of being a kid." 
Another Willett parent, Celeste D'Elia, said her son feels safer because of the rule. "I've witnessed enough near collisions," she said. 

So this is likely an insurance & lawsuit issue & too bad.  

As far as raising a generation of Veal, which generation would that be?
I see a bunch of people in work in cubicles all day & go inside another building on run or climb on the cubicles fitness equal, a treadmill or stair climber. (pretend you are walking or climbing in a climate controlled atmosphere - Yes, I'm guilty of this too!)

Go to an airport  & see everyone wheel their lugguge, it's too heavy (pack less!, pack smarter or get stronger!)  While going away for a week or two may be okay I see people with their F&*^& briefcases & day packs on wheels!   So it should be no surpise kids book bags are on wheels & we worry about them getting hit in the face with a ball.

Now I'm off to Volleyball to see if I can sixpack anyone in the face with the ball!  (all adults)


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## Paul (Oct 20, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> So this is likely an insurance & lawsuit issue & too bad.
> 
> As far as raising a generation of Veal, which generation would that be?
> I see a bunch of people in work in cubicles all day & go inside another building on run or climb on the cubicles fitness equal, a treadmill or stair climber. (pretend you are walking or climbing in a climate controlled atmosphere - Yes, I'm guilty of this too!)
> ...



And doesn't it always boil down to lawsuits? *sigh* 

Maybe Doug should've said we're raising _another_ generation of veal? I agree completely Mike, as I write this from my own littel veal pen....:sad:


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