# Forget Snow:  Alta is for $$$$$



## thetrailboss (Oct 28, 2021)

They have just unveiled their new parking system that is in effect for weekend and holidays starting December 18-April 3rd and all I can say is that $$$$ is clearly the goal. 









						Alta Parking | PARKING BASICS
					

Alta Parking, Parking Basics. How to Navigate Alta's Weekend & Holiday Parking Reservation System for the 2021-22 Winter.




					www.altaparking.com
				




Why do I say that?  Well, if you are visiting for a day and buy a lift ticket then parking is $10.00 for you.  If you are using a voucher, a certain four-letter pass, or a reciprocal pass benefit, then you are charged $25.00 per day.  Pay a premium for a multi-week ski school program or private lessons?  Yep, you have to pay too.  Call now to buy your "permit".  Staying at a local lodge in town?  Yep, still have to pay $25.00 (they coyly say, 'take it up with your lodge'.  Such warm hospitality).  Wanting to hike, access backcountry on public land, or skin up to your camp off of Albion Basin Road?  Yep, $25.00 per day for use of the "Grizzly Lot" or area right before the winter gate on 210.  They even have the balls to charge for parking in the "Flagstaff Lot" in downtown Alta.  Forget about your reservation?  $25.00.  Park without paying?  $75.00.  It is all about the $$$$. 

My family did Alta-Bird this year and we still have yet to receive our promised "codes" to get our free reservations.  I read that we are supposed to get them "early-November". 

Any bets as to how long those free reservations get taken? 

Now there (hopefully) will be some benefits.  One will be less cars in the Canyon and less congestion early morning.  Except Snowbird is not doing reservations.  Again, why can't Snowbird and Alta coordinate on anything?  Second, the reservations only apply from 8am-1pm.  So afternoon skiers can come.  Third, the (increased and free) bus service is still an option.  Fourth, the system is only in place on about 40 or so days.  But those are prime days and every weekend. 

I seriously wonder if they have the staff to enforce this.  Their flashy site is hosted by a parking vendor.  Perhaps that vendor is going to staff the lots. 

This will really piss off the Town and locals.  I get it is meant to change behavior but it is evident that they want the money.  S.J. Quinney, Alf Engen, and James Laughlin are all rolling in their graves.  I am appalled at how commercialized Alta has become in such a short time.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 28, 2021)

No snowboarders screwing up the bumps though! 

Seems to me from a distance there's just no economically and environmentally feasible solution to improve the Alta/Bird commute.  No one idea has caught fire.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 28, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> No snowboarders screwing up the bumps though!
> 
> Seems to me from a distance there's just no economically and environmentally feasible solution to improve the Alta/Bird commute.  No one idea has caught fire.


True on both accounts.  

And are there any eastern areas that have paid parking reservations on holidays/weekends?  Methinks no.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 28, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> True on both accounts.
> 
> And are there any eastern areas that have paid parking reservations on holidays/weekends?  Methinks no.



Mt Snow will likely be the first for reserved paid parking.  Their system for this winter seems to be the most aggressive money grubbing program out here.


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## raisingarizona (Oct 28, 2021)

Nah, parking fees are for the “guest experience” quality.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 28, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Mt Snow will likely be the first for reserved paid parking.  Their system for this winter seems to be the most aggressive money grubbing program out here.


Some of their parking or all of their parking?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 28, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Some of their parking or all of their parking?



Well, it's "some" now, but you show up late and you will have to pay.  As I understand it all of the close parking is fee based on busy days.  The best parking is fee based no matter what day. The outer lots are free, BUT, once they fill up you have to use a pay lot.  

In the future it very well could be "all".  

I'm guessing ski areas are simply looking at all large participation events and following suit.  You go to an amusement park, you pay to park.  Go to a football game, you pay to park.


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## Edd (Oct 28, 2021)

Wildcat charging for parking is a hilarious concept.


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## snoseek (Oct 28, 2021)

What about the people working up there? Not all live on the mountain.


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## snoseek (Oct 28, 2021)

Edd said:


> Wildcat charging for parking is a hilarious concept.


Really? I gotta look this up...


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## Edd (Oct 28, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Really? I gotta look this up...


I was kidding, but it is Vail.


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## snoseek (Oct 28, 2021)

Edd said:


> I was kidding, but it is Vail.


Oh thank god!


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## Smellytele (Oct 28, 2021)

Okemo will be next.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 28, 2021)

snoseek said:


> What about the people working up there? Not all live on the mountain.


Who knows......


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## thetrailboss (Oct 28, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Okemo will be next.


What does Stowe do?


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## ss20 (Oct 29, 2021)

snoseek said:


> What about the people working up there? Not all live on the mountain.





thetrailboss said:


> Who knows......



I was told employees will get some type of parking pass but was still pretty up in the air.  Oddly enough I haven't heard anything... I would've kinda figured they'd let us know by know what the scoop is, three weeks from opening day.  

I don't want to take an opinion on a topic I've yet to experience...LCC/BCC traffic.  But, my 2,000 mile away perspective is that paid parking/reservations are supposed to suck.  If there's too many people coming up the road, make them not want to come or encourage them to take the bus.  If 1 out of 20 vehicles says "f it I'm not gonna pay to park" and they find an alternative to do on a mid-winter Saturday...good.  If 1 out of 20 vehicles decides to take themselves up to AltaBird on the bus...good.  If the mountain can make money on the other 18 vehicles still going up the canyon...good.  I do certainly understand anyone frustrated with the system.  @thetrailboss it would suck getting your small children up to the hill without taking your personal vehicle... I get that.


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## abc (Oct 29, 2021)

There’s still the matter of bus capability...


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 29, 2021)

America has a Car problem and the Cottonwood Canyons are a prime example of it.  i'm guilty of it myself.  Hell my wife and I work together and 99% of the time drive 2 cars to our office 3.5 miles away.

I don't know what the solution is and peoples habits are hard to break.  Mine included...


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## deadheadskier (Oct 29, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> America has a Car problem and the Cottonwood Canyons are a prime example of it.  i'm guilty of it myself.  Hell my wife and I work together and 99% of the time drive 2 cars to our office 3.5 miles away.
> 
> I don't know what the solution is and peoples habits are hard to break.  Mine included...



A 3.5 mile break from the wife seems like a more than reasonable carbon expense to me.   Is there a scenic route?


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## Edd (Oct 29, 2021)

What’s happening with parking at Alta, I get. Mt Snow charging $15 for parking in lot C on a Tuesday is a pure money grab. There’s no problem being addressed.


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## Zand (Oct 29, 2021)

I'm surprised it took this long for Alta to charge (and that the others haven't started yet besides Solitude). But I mean...almost every other major resort in the west either charges for parking or makes you park far away and take a shuttle. Just based on that fact alone, I'm surprised it took,this long. Add in the canyon traffic factor and it's a no brainer IMO. If it gets even a small amount of people to take the bus instead of drive, it's working.

Even with free parking available, I still took the bus almost every day I was there. Ive found that the bus always runs on schedule (unless the canyons are a shitshow, in which case it doesnt make a difference time wise if you're in a bus or car). Oh, and the bus is free with an Ikon pass (I'm assuming with the regular season passes as well) and theres ample parking at the station by the Sandy Walgreens. Plus the added benefit of not having to find parking in the Snowbird clusterf*ck parking lot.

I think charging for stuff like the Grizzly Gulch parking lot and the hotel parking lots is going overboard, but as far as the main lots it's 100% a positive.

On that note, f*ck any resort in the east that charges for anything besides maybe a perferred lot super close (like Bay 1 at Killington).


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 29, 2021)

Now I wonder if the lot at the bottom will have enough capacity if more start taking the bus.


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## drjeff (Oct 29, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Now I wonder if the lot at the bottom will have enough capacity if more start taking the bus.


Probably just example number 1001 of where the best intentions behind trying to solve 1 problem, ends up creating another problem, which will then see the best intentions in trying to solve that problem create another problem and on and on and on.....


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## snoseek (Oct 29, 2021)

How much more bus capacity? They get pretty jammed up at the end of the day. 

Albion base is where you want to wait if things get busy.


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## Zand (Oct 29, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Now I wonder if the lot at the bottom will have enough capacity if more start taking the bus.


The lot at the bottom of LCC isnt a bus stop any more. Just a park and ride. The lots on 9400 are more than large enough to withstand any kind of increase.


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## Zand (Oct 29, 2021)

You want a ripoff? How about Wachusett charging $249 for a 3 pack of tickets.


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## ss20 (Oct 29, 2021)

I'd like to remind people... paid parking is a short-term thing (theoretically) till a more permanent solution is imposed (gondola or additional bus lane)... which will both come with tolling for personal cars going up the canyon.


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## Smellytele (Oct 29, 2021)

Zand said:


> View attachment 52045
> You want a ripoff? How about Wachusett charging $249 for a 3 pack of tickets.


What is a single day ticket for wawa ?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I'd like to remind people... paid parking is a short-term thing (theoretically) till a more permanent solution is imposed (gondola or additional bus lane)... which will both come with tolling for personal cars going up the canyon.



How long would that gondola ride be?


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## Zand (Oct 29, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> What is a single day ticket for wawa ?


They break days down into a few 3-4 hour segments and it's $59-$72 for a ticket for one segment. Reservations required and it's $25 to cancel or change your reservation. If they aren't busy they're kind enough to let you ski two segments for *only* $20 more.

The 3 packs are for double segments, but still it's not really saving any money. And it's asinine for them to be charging that much to begin with.


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## Smellytele (Oct 29, 2021)

They break days down into a few 3-4 hour segments and it's $59-$72 for a ticket for one segment. Reservations required and it's $25 to cancel or change your reservation. If they aren't busy they're kind enough to let you ski two segments for *only* $20 more.


Zand said:


> The 3 packs are for double segments, but still it's not really saving any money. And it's asinine for them to be charging that much to begin with.


So 79-92. So at best a $9 savings per outing


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I was told employees will get some type of parking pass but was still pretty up in the air.  Oddly enough I haven't heard anything... I would've kinda figured they'd let us know by know what the scoop is, three weeks from opening day.


That is weird. 



ss20 said:


> I don't want to take an opinion on a topic I've yet to experience...LCC/BCC traffic.  But, my 2,000 mile away perspective is that paid parking/reservations are supposed to suck.  If there's too many people coming up the road, make them not want to come or encourage them to take the bus.  If 1 out of 20 vehicles says "f it I'm not gonna pay to park" and they find an alternative to do on a mid-winter Saturday...good.  If 1 out of 20 vehicles decides to take themselves up to AltaBird on the bus...good.  If the mountain can make money on the other 18 vehicles still going up the canyon...good.  I do certainly understand anyone frustrated with the system.  @thetrailboss it would suck getting your small children up to the hill without taking your personal vehicle... I get that.


What will those people do?  Go to Snowbird because they reopened (some) of their parking to first-come-first-served.  The problem will remain.  Again, no cooperation and no foresight by both as to issues.  The only thing they agree on is having us locals foot a $500 million bill to fix their traffic problem.


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## jimk (Oct 29, 2021)

I have a friend in Utah who has been skiing out there for 30 years.  He made the sad joke last season that parking is the new profit generator for ski resorts.
Fortunately, one of the recent enhancements to busing is a new bus stop about 7 minute walk from where I stay out there and it's just before the big bus stops on Wasatch Blvd where all the crowds get on.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> America has a Car problem and the Cottonwood Canyons are a prime example of it.  i'm guilty of it myself.  Hell my wife and I work together and 99% of the time drive 2 cars to our office 3.5 miles away.
> 
> I don't know what the solution is and peoples habits are hard to break.  Mine included...


I hear you, but that ain't changing.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2021)

jimk said:


> I have a friend in Utah who has been skiing out there for 30 years.  He made the sad joke last season that parking is the new profit generator for ski resorts.
> Fortunately, one of the recent enhancements to busing is a new bus stop about 7 minute walk from where I stay out there and it's just before the big bus stops on Wasatch Blvd where all the crowds get on.


If you used the buses, how did they work for you last year?


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 29, 2021)

today i learned there is a 'downtown' in alta? where is this? what is there? lol


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## ss20 (Oct 29, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> How long would that gondola ride be?



I believe the proposal is a 30 minute ride IIRC.  One of the arguments for the bus is that it will be quicker than the gondola...assuming good weather of course.  But the measuring is a bit funky.  They measure it with total time of person getting to the bus/gondola AND the ride of the bus/gondola.  And the argument is "well if it's a bus people could walk/short drive to the nearest stop rather than having to get to one central hub a la gondola (which, most people would probably be bussed to anyway they are saying).


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## jimk (Oct 29, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> If you used the buses, how did they work for you last year?


I only used the new bus stop once about a week before they stopping bus service in the spring.  The bus was almost empty all the way up to Snowbird by that time.  I rode the buses a couple times before that from some of the main bus stops on Wasatch, once when a bus was quite crowded, but I was vaccinated by then and kept mask on.  Didn't have trouble getting a seat last season from my limited sample.  Maybe it was busier earlier in season, but I suspect threat of covid probably caused a dip in ridership all winter??


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 29, 2021)

I used to stay a bit far from Alta to get a good deal on a room. The bus ride in full ski gear was a bit much if you had to stand..especially with the heat cranked up..not sure why it was cranked up, but it mostly was.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2021)

Zand said:


> I'm surprised it took this long for Alta to charge (and that the others haven't started yet besides Solitude). But I mean...almost every other major resort in the west either charges for parking or makes you park far away and take a shuttle. Just based on that fact alone, I'm surprised it took,this long. Add in the canyon traffic factor and it's a no brainer IMO. If it gets even a small amount of people to take the bus instead of drive, it's working.


Dirty secret.  Remember how in the Fall of 2019 Solitude abruptly started charging for parking on a half-assed roll-out that got everyone angry?  The reason why was because Alterra was getting killed paying for people to use their IKON passes to ride the bus to ski non-Alterra areas.  So that whole, "we're donating the proceeds" was pure B.S.  An employee told me that he asked to see a list of the charities who received these proceeds and magically the list did not exist.  All the money went to UTA.  


Zand said:


> I think charging for stuff like the Grizzly Gulch parking lot and the hotel parking lots is going overboard, but as far as the main lots it's 100% a positive.


Yeah, major overkill.  Especially the lot right in the village (OK, not downtown).


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## raisingarizona (Oct 30, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> They break days down into a few 3-4 hour segments and it's $59-$72 for a ticket for one segment. Reservations required and it's $25 to cancel or change your reservation. If they aren't busy they're kind enough to let you ski two segments for *only* $20 more.
> 
> So 79-92. So at best a $9 savings per outing


That’s like what? A quarter of a hamburger at a ski lodge?


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## Tonyr (Oct 30, 2021)

This is why I stay on the mountain at Snowbird or Alta when I visit. It's no fun paying the premium to do so but there are no parking worries and it's not just the cost. On a powder weekend you need to get a spot well before the lifts open and that means sitting in the lot for an hour or two wait until the resort opens. No thanks.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 1, 2021)

Staying up there is always the best option if you can go for the price...to me its worth it to avoid the ride up shit show..and its fun when the room lights up and BANG..avi control time..


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

Update.  Apparently the Town of Alta will ALSO be charging $25.00 per car Friday-Sunday in its public spots on the north side of SR210.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 3, 2021)

And as predicted, parking reservations opened and despite assurances from Snowbird, we do not have parking codes as Alta/Snowbird passholders.  All the meantime Alta passholders are right now making their reservations while we have not gotten what we paid for.


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## Harvey (Nov 11, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> $$$$ is clearly the goal.


The definition of a business.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2021)

Harvey said:


> The definition of a business.


Of course.  There's nothing wrong with that.  If you're not familiar with Alta, this would be like MRG overnight charging its focus.  So charging for parking, increasing prices a lot, and completely changing the locals low key feel to it all being about money and only money.  Major change.


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## ss20 (Nov 11, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Of course.  There's nothing wrong with that.  If you're not familiar with Alta, this would be like MRG overnight charging its focus.  So charging for parking, increasing prices a lot, and completely changing the locals low key feel to it all being about money and only money.  Major change.



I heard some jackass is going to be driving a penske truck up there just to move his ski stuff into a locker in the coming weeks... what a shmuck


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## Harvey (Nov 11, 2021)

Skiers as a group seem surprised when ski areas try to maximize profits.  Demand is up (in the east anyway) supply is down (or was last year), skiers are complaining about crowds and labor is hard to find.  Costs for everything are rising.  Prices rising is at ski areas is a logical reaction.

What is your business? Do you work to be more profitable?  

We do. We had a client (company) since 2007.  The client (person) retired and a new person came in.  She asked us to repitch the business against competitors. We hadn't raised our hourly rate since the beginning.  We killed it and they hired us back.  (That almost never happens.) We raised our hourly rate by 20%. We saw our chance, we had some leverage and we went for it.  We are hearing from them they are getting less work out of us for the same budget. It's true, they are.  It's business.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Skiers as a group seem surprised when ski areas try to maximize profits.  Demand is up (in the east anyway) supply is down (or was last year), skiers are complaining about crowds and labor is hard to find.  Costs for everything are rising.  Prices rising is at ski areas is a logical reaction.
> 
> What is your business? Do you work to be more profitable?
> 
> We do. We had a client (company) since 2007.  The client (person) retired and a new person came in.  She asked us to repitch the business against competitors. We hadn't raised our hourly rate since the beginning.  We killed it and they hired us back.  (That almost never happens.) We raised our hourly rate by 20%. We saw our chance, we had some leverage and we went for it.  We are hearing from them they are getting less work out of us for the same budget. It's true, they are.  It's business.


That's all great and dandy, but you completely miss the point of what I have said here.  If you've been to Alta anytime prior to 2018 you'd understand that it was pretty low key place that was not commercialized.  In fact, they marketed themselves as that.  Now it's not.  A pretty stark change.  This is not about merely raising prices--it's about a complete change of their identity.


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## Harvey (Nov 11, 2021)

Okay maybe my example is lame.

So a business, Alta, is now commercialized. Got it. They are acting like the rest of the capitalist system.

Bummed I get.  But are you surprised?

Gore, my home mountain, was alway very chill. Then they started to charge for parking. We don't like it. But it is what it is.  Capitalism.

Capitalists raise your hand. Socialists raise your hand. If you like something in the middle, you should be at home in America.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Okay maybe my example is lame.
> 
> So a business, Alta, is now commercialized. Got it. They are acting like the rest of the capitalist system.
> 
> ...


You're again not getting the point and it's clear that you don't understand the whole story so it's hard to have a constructive conversation.   This is not a case of merely increasing the cost a little bit due to costs increasing.  It is fundamentally changing the brand and the value the brand delivered.  

ALL weekends and holidays are now $25.00 per car per day at Alta for ALL parking.  Parking at Gore, from I see, only charges for "Premium" Parking at $20.00 per day unless you have a pass.   To make it similar, it would be as if Gore had free parking one season and the very next season charged every car $25.00 per day.  That is a big change.  Huge change. 

Alta went from $0.00 for parking to now $25.00 per day weekend and holiday.  So if you are using an IKON pass and want to ski your 7 days on weekends, you now are paying $175.00 that you were not paying last year.  And this is not Aspen where one paid to park to begin with.  This is Alta.  Alta, again, was all about locals and skiing.  Not charging an arm and a leg for parking and other items.


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## Harvey (Nov 11, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> You're again not getting the point and it's clear that you don't understand the whole story so it's hard to have a constructive conversation.   This is not a case of merely increasing the cost a little bit due to costs increasing.  It is fundamentally changing the brand and the value the brand delivered.
> 
> ALL weekends and holidays are now $25.00 per car per day at Alta for ALL parking.  Parking at Gore, from I see, only charges for "Premium" Parking at $20.00 per day unless you have a pass.   To make it similar, it would be as if Gore had free parking one season and the very next season charged every car $25.00 per day.  That is a big change.  Huge change.
> 
> Alta went from $0.00 for parking to now $25.00 per day weekend and holiday.  So if you are using an IKON pass and want to ski your 7 days on weekends, you now are paying $175.00 that you were not paying last year.  And this is not Aspen where one paid to park to begin with.  This is Alta.  Alta, again, was all about locals and skiing.  Not charging an arm and a leg for parking and other items.


You're right I don't understand. They raised the price of skiing by a lot.  You don't like it because it's drastic and changes the brand. You're probably right. For a passholder it's probably a big percentage if you have to park in that lot every time you ski. How much do you spend per year on skiing, all in and how much will this raise it?

Gore added paid parking in 2008, after the pass deadline and at the beginning of the economic freefall.  My pay was cut 40% at the beginning of the season. It was $10 for the best 15%(?) of spots.  Gore is subsidized by my tax dollars. I didn't like it, and I feel the same way. It changed the brand.

I didn't know Gore paid parking was $20 now. I've never paid it in hundreds of days. I get there an hour before the lifts spin, park in the best free spot and walk.  It's a lot less exercise than skinning 2000 feet of vert. And premium parking is not free for passholders. 

None of that changes my opinion that it's a business. If the price is too high, don't pay it. If you based your whole life on living right next to Alta, and paid parking undermines your life plan, that's a bummer I guess. Ski somewhere else, or stop skiing, or walk from the outer lot, or have your wife drop you off, or car pool or live with it.  I don't pay too close attention but it seems like one of your consistent messages is that being an Alta local is awesome. So this is one part that isn't awesome.

If Gore puts in 100% paid parking and charges $100 a day everyday including weekdays, then maybe I made a bad choice too. I'm building a house up there. It's still skiing and as a skier I feel incredibly lucky. If parking gets too expensive at Gore, I'll do backcountry or McCauley on weekends.

Not trying to be a dick. Skiing is an expensive sport and skiers love cheap tickets, don't like lift lines, or revenue shifting.

This is your forum, I'll be quiet now.


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## jaytrem (Nov 11, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> That's all great and dandy, but you completely miss the point of what I have said here.  If you've been to Alta anytime prior to 2018 you'd understand that it was pretty low key place that was not commercialized.  In fact, they marketed themselves as that.  Now it's not.  A pretty stark change.  This is not about merely raising prices--it's about a complete change of their identity.


You've been to Discovery, so you you know what true low key is.  I haven't been to Alta in over ten years, and I would not have called it low key back then.  I guess it might have been lower key a few years ago, but not really low key.  Not to mention, to be truly low key they would have to remove the stick that's up their ass and allow snowboarding.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 11, 2021)

lol @ alta being "low key" pre 2018. its been a world famous heavily advertised destination ski area 30 minutes from a major american city since and before i was a 7 year old reading ski magazine.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> lol @ alta being "low key" pre 2018. its been a world famous heavily advertised destination ski area 30 minutes from a major american city since and before i was a 7 year old reading ski magazine.


"No frills" is a better term.


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## Smellytele (Nov 11, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> "No frills" is a better term.


What frills does it have now that it didn’t before?


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## Cobbold (Nov 11, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> What frills does it have now that it didn’t before?


This is the first I have heard gore has paid parking, is that true? If so it‘s humorous to me about all the crap vail has taken about paid parking at mt snow, but gore has it(if true) and lots of people talk about gore as if its some holy place that can  do no wrong, paid parking, so funny


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 11, 2021)

LoL @_therailboss_

I moved out west and it is still getting popular and I can't handle it.

Maybe you should move back to Burke

Alta and Snowbird were World Class before you dude


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## Harvey (Nov 11, 2021)

It's a fact. Gore has had paid parking since December 2008. It's not nearly on the scale of Mt Snow. Maybe half or 2/3rds of Lot A.



Cobbold said:


> lots of people talk about gore as if its some holy place that can do no wrong,



Not sure where you hang out but Gore gets a fair share of abuse. Some of it is even deserved. 

The fact that they don't have it totally together is part of the appeal. And no slopeside.  At Gore we have an expression. "If Gore was Stratton... it would be... Stratton."

Gore is awesome. Especially if you like tree skiing.


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## Cornhead (Nov 11, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Gore, my home mountain, was alway very chill. Then they started to charge for parking. We don't like it. But it is what it is.  Capitalism.


Did you actually use Gore and capitalism in the same sentence? Too funny. I'm sorry, same paragraph, still laughable.
The old High Peaks double?


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## Harvey (Nov 12, 2021)

Good point. Gore a bit more like 'Merica. A combination of capitalism and socialism.

Not having to actually PAY for their own Capex, and subsidized ticket prices.  And no slopeside allowed.

Where did you get that pic, it's awesome.


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## djd66 (Nov 12, 2021)

If you run a business and your costs go up (labor + inflation on pretty much everything) do you think that the business should just suck up the increased costs or try to make it up by increasing revenue some way some how? (ie raising pass prices, charging for parking,..)

Inflation is a fact right now,... I am not surprised that Alta is looking for ways to enhance their revenue.  

Personally, I own a business and we are raising our prices.  If we didn't raise prices, we would not be in business for much longer.


----------



## Kingslug20 (Nov 12, 2021)

Alta is changing, no doubt. But look at it this way. They have a world class product in a changing world. Everything is going up in price and they..as a business have to change with the times. I started going there 22 years ago. Hit it after a 48 inch storm in 48 hours. I was able to get up there and ski all day..no prob..try that now. There were no gigantic housing areas being built all over the place. Utah is changing as a whole. Unfortunately when you are a place everyone wants to go to..move to..its going to get crowded. My plan of moving there changed because of this. I would rather visit now and live in a less crowded place..like Vermont. 
Want to see change? Go to Moab...it was a mob scene and traffic was nuts. Bet that wasn't that way 20 years ago.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 12, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> My family did Alta-Bird this year and we still have yet to receive our promised "codes" to get our free reservations.



I missed this part originally.  What did they promise?

Sorry I know I said I would be quiet.  I am very interested in this topic.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 12, 2021)

Edd said:


> What’s happening with parking at Alta, I get. Mt Snow charging $15 for parking in lot C on a Tuesday is a pure money grab. There’s no problem being addressed.



I think the "problem" being addressed is the big cut in the cost of the EPIC pass. Yield is down at a time when costs are rising dramatically.  Although I wouldn't be surprised if this was the plan before all this inflation.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 12, 2021)

Pretty sure Alta’s parking plans are about canyon crowding and not inflation. These plans were in the works as crowding mitigation before inflation hit hard

And gores front lot has been a pay lot for a long time. But the second lot that is adjacent to it has always been free. Not a big deal.


----------



## Kingslug20 (Nov 12, 2021)

Parking at Gore is easy..get there early. Its not a long walk at all. Skating around the mountain..thats a different story..but its a good workout. 
And yes..the crowding issue at Alta/Bird is huge..and pretty dangerouse if your stuck in that line with a ton of snow hanging above you..no matter how much avi control they do..it still comes down and wipes out cars and buses.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 12, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> And gores front lot has been a pay lot for a long time.



Since 2008. It's not the whole Lot A either, maybe half or a little more.


----------



## Cornhead (Nov 12, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Good point. Gore a bit more like 'Merica. A combination of capitalism and socialism.
> 
> Not having to actually PAY for their own Capex, and subsidized ticket prices.  And no slopeside allowed.
> 
> Where did you get that pic, it's awesome.


I snapped it from the Darkside  I wonder if Rodman has skied it.

I do miss the good old days pre megapass, ferreting out deals was part of the fun of it all. Now you can't even ski with your buddy because he's got one megapass, and you've got the other. It's depressing.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 12, 2021)

Harvey said:


> I think the "problem" being addressed is the big cut in the cost of the EPIC pass. Yield is down at a time when costs are rising dramatically.  Although I wouldn't be surprised if this was the plan before all this inflation.


Bingo.  That’s exactly what I think is happening.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 12, 2021)

You mentioned that passholders get free parking. I think I read that too, somewhere.  So it looks like you are all set?  Are you bummed on a macro level even though it doesn't affect you?


----------



## ss20 (Nov 12, 2021)

For me, Alta/Utah as a whole were still the best option from a financial standpoint.  I was willing to sacrifice crowding (on what is still a minority of days) for cheaper cost of living and having 9 ski resorts within 90 minutes of my house (and pretty much every major ski region in the US within a 12 hour drive).  Most major resort towns I was priced out of.  Jackson, Colorado, the PNE, even Bozeman is getting crazy.  I briefly looked at the Nevada side of Tahoe (Reno) which would've been reasonable.  Taos would've been cool but the short season and lack of area mountains were negatives.  Eventually I want to transition into a smaller, more rural mountain (Discovery or Bridger in MT, some places in Idaho, interior of Washington state).  But it's not time for that.  I want to experience "the big mountains" first, while I still can.  I don't want to become the Utah Apologist...but for all the negatives it still appears to be the best option.  Housing...I found a 2 bedroom apartment 25 minutes from Alta for $975 a month, it took me 2 weeks of searching and I think only 4 or 5 applications I sent in.  Transportation...I can walk to the bus so weekends I plan on "enduring" the crapshow by sitting in the bus on my laptop or with a book.  As I've said before...I'm not there yet...but ask me again in 90 days what my opinion is.  I feel like I have a good understanding of what I'm getting into and if I don't like it, it's a one year lease and it snows in other places.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 12, 2021)

plan on the book not the laptop lol. those buses get asses to elbows. no room to spread out with a computer and i'd be worried about it getting wet and broken.


----------



## jimk (Nov 12, 2021)

ss20 said:


> For me, Alta/Utah as a whole were still the best option from a financial standpoint.  I was willing to sacrifice crowding (on what is still a minority of days) for cheaper cost of living and having 9 ski resorts within 90 minutes of my house (and pretty much every major ski region in the US within a 12 hour drive).  Most major resort towns I was priced out of.  Jackson, Colorado, the PNE, even Bozeman is getting crazy.  I briefly looked at the Nevada side of Tahoe (Reno) which would've been reasonable.  Taos would've been cool but the short season and lack of area mountains were negatives.  Eventually I want to transition into a smaller, more rural mountain (Discovery or Bridger in MT, some places in Idaho, interior of Washington state).  But it's not time for that.  I want to experience "the big mountains" first, while I still can.  I don't want to become the Utah Apologist...but for all the negatives it still appears to be the best option.  Housing...I found a 2 bedroom apartment 25 minutes from Alta for $975 a month, it took me 2 weeks of searching and I think only 4 or 5 applications I sent in.  Transportation...I can walk to the bus so weekends I plan on "enduring" the crapshow by sitting in the bus on my laptop or with a book.  As I've said before...I'm not there yet...but ask me again in 90 days what my opinion is.  I feel like I have a good understanding of what I'm getting into and if I don't like it, it's a one year lease and it snows in other places.


I think with that kind of attitude you are going to do great.
Quickie advice from older dude who has been skiing Utah quite a bit the last 5 or 6 years:
Stay humble, those mtns will wear you out quickly until your conditioning adjusts and you learn to manage the scope of the terrain/snow/weather.
Stay calm on powder days, there will be a frenzy.  I am amazed how many skilled locals come out of the woodwork and can blow me away on the hill.  Take each run on a powder day as a special treat and try not to get caught up rushing through it.  There will be more powder days.
Savor the quiet, regular ski days.  As you ski yourself into shape there are a lot of fun little side-country hikes and runs that can come into play.
The bus system generally works great and if you are not worrying about being the first on the hill and skiing from bell to bell it's rather nice to leave the driving to others.
There will be a handful of days this season when you go skiing when the forecasters predict only 3" of snow.  No crowds show up and then the little storm overproduces to 10" by 2 PM.  Those are good days, very good days!
Pace yourself.  It's a long season and some of the funnest days are in late spring when the crowds go away and the sun is warm and the beer is cold.
I'm sure you will enjoy and benefit from the camaraderie of the instructor community.


----------



## LonghornSkier (Nov 12, 2021)

I think Utah is a great place to live as a professional who still wants to ski a lot. 

That said, I'm pretty disenchanted with it from the perspective of a vacation destination. 

I was out there for two weeks last year, and the whole Wasatch front from Provo to Ogden feels like suburban Dallas with mountains in the background. Even Park City is suburban in character these days.

I'm pretty firmly in the camp of non-Bozeman Idaho/Montana being the best place to "get away from it all" in the lower 48 these days.


----------



## Kingslug20 (Nov 12, 2021)

What turned us off is the housing prices...in truth I would like to at least give it a go..but thats not in the cards.
The advice from Jim above..is spot on.


----------



## jaytrem (Nov 12, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> What frills does it have now that it didn’t before?


If I'm not mistaken Mt Snow considers their new paid parking policy to to be a "frill".  I guess Alta could claim the same thing.


----------



## jaytrem (Nov 12, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> I'm pretty firmly in the camp of non-Bozeman Idaho/Montana being the best place to "get away from it all" in the lower 48 these days.


Yup, but Spokane to CDA is booming.  That may eventually take a few off the "get away from it all" list.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 12, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> If I'm not mistaken Mt Snow considers their new paid parking policy to to be a "frill".  I guess Alta could claim the same thing.


That is pretty much the opposite of a frill.


----------



## LonghornSkier (Nov 12, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Yup, but Spokane to CDA is booming.  That may eventually take a few off the "get away from it all" list.


Yeah, the Spokane CSA is still only 1/3 the size of the SLC CSA.

Even in that area, the best ski spots are a bit away from the I-90 corridor. You’re not looking down into Spokane from the top of Schweitzer like you are at Snowbird into SLC. 

That said, if I were to buy land in that area of the country, I’d buy in Hamilton MT.


----------



## jaytrem (Nov 12, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> That is pretty much the opposite of a frill.


Do not argue with the Vail corporation!  If they say it's a frill, it's a frill!!!


----------



## jaytrem (Nov 12, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Yeah, the Spokane CSA is still only 1/3 the size of the SLC CSA.
> 
> Even in that area, the best ski spots are a bit away from the I-90 corridor. You’re not looking down into Spokane from the top of Schweitzer like you are at Snowbird into SLC.
> 
> That said, if I were to buy land in that area of the country, I’d buy in Hamilton MT.


What's a CSA?  I think that's where I get me vegetables.  CDA is for Coeur d'Alene, but nobody knows how to spell it, including me), so CDA it is.  The amount of development that has occurred since I first visited 20 years ago it amazing.  But you're right, it's still nothing compared to SLC.

Had to look up Hamilton, I guess I drove through there once.  Lost Trail is quite nice, and fun stuff to the north.  Not sure where I would buy, maybe near Discovery.


----------



## jimk (Nov 12, 2021)

CSA: combined statistical area, a combination of multiple nearby cities/towns functioning as one big metro area.  For example the greater Baltimore-Washington metro area can be categorized as a CSA and this CSA extends 50-75 miles or more in every direction including beyond the WV border.


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 12, 2021)

jimk said:


> CSA: combined statistical area, a combination of multiple nearby cities/towns functioning as one big metro area.  For example the greater Baltimore-Washington metro area can be categorized as a CSA and this CSA extends 50-75 miles or more in every direction including beyond the WV border.


Learn something new everyday.


----------



## snoseek (Nov 12, 2021)

ss20 said:


> For me, Alta/Utah as a whole were still the best option from a financial standpoint.  I was willing to sacrifice crowding (on what is still a minority of days) for cheaper cost of living and having 9 ski resorts within 90 minutes of my house (and pretty much every major ski region in the US within a 12 hour drive).  Most major resort towns I was priced out of.  Jackson, Colorado, the PNE, even Bozeman is getting crazy.  I briefly looked at the Nevada side of Tahoe (Reno) which would've been reasonable.  Taos would've been cool but the short season and lack of area mountains were negatives.  Eventually I want to transition into a smaller, more rural mountain (Discovery or Bridger in MT, some places in Idaho, interior of Washington state).  But it's not time for that.  I want to experience "the big mountains" first, while I still can.  I don't want to become the Utah Apologist...but for all the negatives it still appears to be the best option.  Housing...I found a 2 bedroom apartment 25 minutes from Alta for $975 a month, it took me 2 weeks of searching and I think only 4 or 5 applications I sent in.  Transportation...I can walk to the bus so weekends I plan on "enduring" the crapshow by sitting in the bus on my laptop or with a book.  As I've said before...I'm not there yet...but ask me again in 90 days what my opinion is.  I feel like I have a good understanding of what I'm getting into and if I don't like it, it's a one year lease and it snows in other places.


I did a couple rounds through lcc. First time back in the 90s started my western seasonal things and a few years ago to close it out before going back east. I needed 1 more big winter, got it and moved on. Needless to say I'm envious and post some pictures. Get excited!


----------



## jaytrem (Nov 12, 2021)

jimk said:


> CSA: combined statistical area, a combination of multiple nearby cities/towns functioning as one big metro area.  For example the greater Baltimore-Washington metro area can be categorized as a CSA and this CSA extends 50-75 miles or more in every direction including beyond the WV border.


Ahhh, I see, thanks.  So no vegetables.


----------



## ss20 (Nov 12, 2021)

snoseek said:


> I did a couple rounds through lcc. First time back in the 90s started my western seasonal things and a few years ago to close it out before going back east. I needed 1 more big winter, got it and moved on. Needless to say I'm envious and post some pictures. Get excited!



Leaving Sunday!  I'll probably make my own season-long thread in the trip report forum rather than pollute the board up here, lol.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 12, 2021)

Vrill?


----------



## Zand (Nov 12, 2021)

Trailboss...I don't say this with offense intended, but theoretically you are part of the problem leading to why Alta is going the way it is. Fact is SLC has blown up in the past couple decades, mainly from skiers and outdoor enthusiasts like you who saw a city that is relatively cheap, way more convenient than Denver, and mere minutes from mountain activities. As more people moved there, so came the larger companies and now it's booming. But there are still only the same 8 or 9 ski areas that there were when the metro area was half the size it is now. You can blame Ikon all you want, and sure it is probably leading to SOME increase of vacationers that might not have gone there otherwise. But the vast majority of the crowding is the ever increasing amount of locals that were going to be skiing there anyway. A place like Jackson or Big Sky has a valid gripe with the Ikon because it's not like it's newfound local people flooding into those areas, it's all Ikon people vacationing there who otherwise wouldn't have, because it's on the pass.

For 5 or 6 years after I graduated from college, all I wanted to do was move to Utah or Colorado. Now, after a few trips there, I find myself just wanting to stay close to Vermont. I know I'm sacrificing the consistently good conditions, but there's no way I could deal with that traffic and the parking clusterf*cks and the liftlines day in and day out. Call me crazy, but the more I ski out west, the more I appreciate the east.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Nov 12, 2021)

ss20 said:


> *I'd like to remind people... paid parking is a short-term thing (theoretically) till a more permanent solution is imposed*



You should be a writer for SNL, they could use this kind of material!  Our roads in Jersey have tolls on them that were supposed to be removed when I was in diapers.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Nov 12, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Good point. Gore a bit more like 'Merica. A combination of capitalism and socialism.



There's very little capitalism at Gore (and none at Belleayre).


----------



## BenedictGomez (Nov 12, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Alta is changing, no doubt. But look at it this way. They have a world class product in a changing world. Everything is going up in price and they..as a business have to change with the times. I started going there 22 years ago. Hit it after a 48 inch storm in 48 hours. I was able to get up there and ski all day..no prob..try that now. There were no gigantic housing areas being built all over the place. Utah is changing as a whole. Unfortunately when you are a place everyone wants to go to..move to..its going to get crowded. My plan of moving there changed because of this. I would rather visit now and live in a less crowded place..like Vermont.
> Want to see change? Go to Moab...it was a mob scene and traffic was nuts. Bet that wasn't that way 20 years ago.



Uber top-secret information that you'd never know if you just listened to the media?   America is getting crowded. 

I'll used 2000 as a base year since most posters here are old enough to remember life in America in 2000 as it was only 20 years ago.  There are *TWENTY PERCENT* more people in America in 2021 than there was in 2000.  For every 10 people you saw in 2000, there are 12 there now.  

One of the main reasons real estate is going bonkers in America isnt because of value-added asset appreciation, it's simply lack of supply because there were too few houses built in the last 20 years for all the additional people immigrating to America.

Old enough to remember 1990?  
There's 34% more people in America now.  For every 66 folks at Costco there are now about 100.

Old enough to remember 1980?
There's almost 50% more people in America now!!!!!!


----------



## thebigo (Nov 13, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Uber top-secret information that you'd never know if you just listened to the media?   America is getting crowded.
> 
> I'll used 2000 as a base year since most posters here are old enough to remember life in America in 2000 as it was only 20 years ago.  There are *TWENTY PERCENT* more people in America in 2021 than there was in 2000.  For every 10 people you saw in 2000, there are 12 there now.
> 
> ...


Stop living in New Jersey.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Nov 13, 2021)

Zand said:


> Call me crazy, but the more I ski out west, the more I appreciate the east.


You're crazy.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Nov 13, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Stop living in New Jersey.



What state should I live in?  Pick one for me.


----------



## thebigo (Nov 13, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> What state should I live in?  Pick one for me.


New hampshire is pretty cool.

Pick a lake town, you can live damn near tax free.

Edit: if the second ammendment is important to you, we are open carry and we hunt.


----------



## bigbob (Nov 13, 2021)

Tax free? You should see my property tax bill!


----------



## djd66 (Nov 13, 2021)

bigbob said:


> Tax free? You should see my property tax bill!


You should see my income tax bill.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 13, 2021)

Zand said:


> Trailboss...I don't say this with offense intended, but theoretically you are part of the problem leading to why Alta is going the way it is. Fact is SLC has blown up in the past couple decades, mainly from skiers and outdoor enthusiasts like you who saw a city that is relatively cheap, way more convenient than Denver, and mere minutes from mountain activities. As more people moved there, so came the larger companies and now it's booming. But there are still only the same 8 or 9 ski areas that there were when the metro area was half the size it is now. You can blame Ikon all you want, and sure it is probably leading to SOME increase of vacationers that might not have gone there otherwise. But the vast majority of the crowding is the ever increasing amount of locals that were going to be skiing there anyway. A place like Jackson or Big Sky has a valid gripe with the Ikon because it's not like it's newfound local people flooding into those areas, it's all Ikon people vacationing there who otherwise wouldn't have, because it's on the pass.
> 
> For 5 or 6 years after I graduated from college, all I wanted to do was move to Utah or Colorado. Now, after a few trips there, I find myself just wanting to stay close to Vermont. I know I'm sacrificing the consistently good conditions, but there's no way I could deal with that traffic and the parking clusterf*cks and the liftlines day in and day out. Call me crazy, but the more I ski out west, the more I appreciate the east.


I agree completely. I longed for Denver for years and then visited enough times to realize I’d be miserable as a weekend warrior with a regular M-F job trying to fight i70 every weekend. Love northeastern living for so many reasons, and don’t mind the long drive north.I shoot for my 10-20 days per year out west as a visitor and have my cake and eat it too.


----------



## ss20 (Nov 13, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> You should be a writer for SNL, they could use this kind of material!  Our roads in Jersey have tolls on them that were supposed to be removed when I was in diapers.



hence I put "theoretically"....

Regardless, long-term the plan is to transition from paid parking to tolling LCC road itself once there is some type of mass transit option available (gondola or bus).  Six in one half a dozen in the other...


----------



## Harvey (Nov 13, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> There's very little capitalism at Gore (and none at Belleayre).



I disagree to an extent. But to the degree you are correct, that is part of the appeal for me.  Like lack of slopeside.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 13, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I agree completely. I longed for Denver for years and then visited enough times to realize I’d be miserable as a weekend warrior with a regular M-F job trying to fight i70 every weekend. Love northeastern living for so many reasons, and don’t mind the long drive north.



Wow I am not alone.

For me I also like water, rain, trees and woods. And the lack of wildfires.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 13, 2021)

ss20 said:


> hence I put "theoretically"....
> 
> Regardless, long-term the plan is to transition from paid parking to tolling LCC road itself once there is some type of mass transit option available (gondola or bus).  Six in one half a dozen in the other...


Who is getting the money for the paid parking and who will get the money from a toll road? 2 different entities I presume...


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 13, 2021)

Harvey said:


> Wow I am not alone.
> 
> For me I also like water, rain, trees and woods. And the lack of wildfires.



the fires is another huge thing for me not wanting to move west. its worse every summer.

saw some articles recently about how northern new england should expect significant influx of climate migrants as more southern latitudes increasingly become inhospitable

now western canada, that i could fuck with. would gladly move to vancouver or calgary if they would have me. cost of living in vancouver is brutal but i am conditioned for brooklyn prices.


----------



## Edd (Nov 13, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> the fires is another huge thing for me not wanting to move west. its worse every summer.
> 
> saw some articles recently about how northern new england should expect significant influx of climate migrants as more southern latitudes increasingly become inhospitable
> 
> now western canada, that i could fuck with. would gladly move to vancouver or calgary if they would have me. cost of living in vancouver is brutal but i am conditioned for brooklyn prices.


Yeah, Canada is where my head was at also. I actually could handle Quebec skiing, even.


----------



## jimk (Nov 13, 2021)

Happiness is a spot inside your head, not a place on a map.  A well adjusted person can be happy anywhere.  A malcontent can be miserable anywhere.


----------



## raisingarizona (Nov 13, 2021)

jimk said:


> Happiness is a spot inside your head, not a place on a map.  A well adjusted person can be happy anywhere.  A malcontent can be miserable anywhere.


I like this but it only goes so far.

I really don’t do very well in larger population centers. Being crowded by so many is not a good time imo. There’s too many reminders of how much people can really suck. I need some space. I don’t think it’s natural for us to live like that and if you have had enough time completely unconnected to the urban world you can’t help but notice the negative impacts it has on people. 

Also, an extremely expensive place can create a whole lot of stress for the average, working class person which honestly can make life really difficult and hard to enjoy.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 13, 2021)

There is truth in both statements.


----------



## raisingarizona (Nov 13, 2021)

The fire thing is definitely putting a pinch on our quality of life out here but for me, it still outweighs the humidity and bugs out east.


----------



## SenorQuesadilla (Nov 13, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Uber top-secret information that you'd never know if you just listened to the media?   America is getting crowded.
> 
> I'll used 2000 as a base year since most posters here are old enough to remember life in America in 2000 as it was only 20 years ago.  There are *TWENTY PERCENT* more people in America in 2021 than there was in 2000.  For every 10 people you saw in 2000, there are 12 there now.
> 
> ...


66 to 100 people would be a 51.5 percent increase.


----------



## Harvey (Nov 13, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> The fire thing is definitely putting a pinch on our quality of life out here but for me, it still outweighs the humidity and bugs out east.



True. Water = humidity and bugs. This map blows my mind:









						US Annual Precipitation Map
					

30 Year Normal Annual Precipitation.




					nyskiblog.com


----------



## BenedictGomez (Nov 13, 2021)

SenorQuesadilla said:


> 66 to 100 people would be a 51.5 percent increase.


Yeah, I copy/pasted that on the wrong line.


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 13, 2021)

Harvey said:


> True. Water = humidity and bugs. This map blows my mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The disparity of the coastal areas to the inland areas rainfall on the west coast is staggering. Shows how much mountain ranges really block moisture.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2021)

Edd said:


> Yeah, Canada is where my head was at also. I actually could handle Quebec skiing, even.


I love Quebec.  Great culture and amazing food.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2021)

And not sure if this will be blocked by a paywall, but now ALL parking in Alta (including town lots) will be $25.00 per day for holidays and weekends.  The backcountry community is ripped.









						‘Inconvenient for everybody’: Alta to charge $25 for parking, require reservations this winter
					

Unlike Monopoly, Alta will offer no free parking on weekends and holidays this ski season after the town and the ski area announced they will require permits and reservations.




					www.sltrib.com


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Who is getting the money for the paid parking and who will get the money from a toll road? 2 different entities I presume...


For the parking, half of it goes to the vendor who is running the site.  The other half to the ski area (for ski lots) and the Town (for town lots).


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2021)

Zand said:


> Trailboss...I don't say this with offense intended, but theoretically you are part of the problem leading to why Alta is going the way it is. Fact is SLC has blown up in the past couple decades, mainly from skiers and outdoor enthusiasts like you who saw a city that is relatively cheap, way more convenient than Denver, and mere minutes from mountain activities. As more people moved there, so came the larger companies and now it's booming. But there are still only the same 8 or 9 ski areas that there were when the metro area was half the size it is now. You can blame Ikon all you want, and sure it is probably leading to SOME increase of vacationers that might not have gone there otherwise. But the vast majority of the crowding is the ever increasing amount of locals that were going to be skiing there anyway. A place like Jackson or Big Sky has a valid gripe with the Ikon because it's not like it's newfound local people flooding into those areas, it's all Ikon people vacationing there who otherwise wouldn't have, because it's on the pass.
> 
> For 5 or 6 years after I graduated from college, all I wanted to do was move to Utah or Colorado. Now, after a few trips there, I find myself just wanting to stay close to Vermont. I know I'm sacrificing the consistently good conditions, but there's no way I could deal with that traffic and the parking clusterf*cks and the liftlines day in and day out. Call me crazy, but the more I ski out west, the more I appreciate the east.


It's not really relevant to this thread, but as I've said, the latest issue was population growth + IKON pass.  The real issue is that a lot of locals have the IKON instead of a regular season pass.  And the issue has been bad since 2018 (I've been here since 2011).  If you don't believe it, try Alta/Snowbird on an IKON blackout day and you will see how quiet it is.  No joke.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2021)

Harvey said:


> I missed this part originally.  What did they promise?
> 
> Sorry I know I said I would be quiet.  I am very interested in this topic.


Long story short.  Alta announced in May (to their credit) that they were doing the paid parking system.  BUT they promised that passholders would not have to pay.  Of course that includes us Alta/Bird Passholders.  My concern, which came true, was that Alta would screw it up.  We buy our Alta/Bird passes from Snowbird.  Over the years we've had a pass or two not work at Alta and instead of fixing it they blame Snowbird for the problem and give us a hard time.  Again, we are basically passholders at Alta.  You'd think that the two ski areas, next door to each other, would work together but they don't.  So I called both before the parking launch to get assurance that we'd get our parking slots.  Snowbird said yes.  Alta did not respond.  On the launch day Alta did not deliver.  I had to get after Alta and we finally got 4 reservation slots (which itself is a joke).  

And by the way they sent my wife, a former passholder several years back, parking codes but not to me who had paid in full.  Pretty effed up.  Alta never apologized or tried to smooth things over.  Snowbird, to their credit, did.  

As to parking, now that we are set for the first four visits, is that we have a spot and can go whenever that day.  I think it will make traffic better.  But honestly we're not even skiing yet and my default position is that we drop Alta next year.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2021)

Harvey said:


> You mentioned that passholders get free parking. I think I read that too, somewhere.  So it looks like you are all set?  Are you bummed on a macro level even though it doesn't affect you?


So the positives are that we have a spot on those days.  We can go when we want and not have to worry about fighting people.  I think it will make Alta less of a shitshow.  In the end, it (so far) has worked out.  My wife likes Alta better than Snowbird so she will be happier (happy spouse, happy house  )

The negatives.  The traffic will still be bad because now folks will focus on the (limited) free parking at Snowbird and clog that up.  The whole fiasco also has left a bad taste in our mouth before the season starts.  We're not inclined to spend any money at Alta on food or other things this season.  We're also seriously thinking of dumping them in 2022-2023.


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## jaytrem (Nov 14, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> My wife likes Alta better than Snowbird so she will be happier (happy spouse, happy house  )


Woman in line, all is fine!


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## eatskisleep (Nov 15, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Woman in line, all is fine!


Happy wife, happy life!


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 15, 2021)

Utah is not the only place booming...








						Cottonwood Crossing to break ground
					

Former driving range and pipeline staging area transforming into mixed-use development By Jason Starr Observer staff The 17 vacant acres next to Maple Tree Place that were once the site




					www.willistonobserver.com
				




We were there this weekend looking at houses..Williston is booming.


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## abc (Nov 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Want to see change? Go to Moab...it was a mob scene and traffic was nuts. Bet that wasn't that way 20 years ago.


What traffic? I was there twice this year. There's some traffic and you may have to wait for the light to change. But that's it. Nothing I'd term "nuts"! Nothing like the Cottonwood canyons. Nothing like I-70 on the Front range. Nothing of course like NYC or surrounding area. So I don't know what you're talking about!

I don't know what it was like 20 years ago. I'm sure it's less. But aren't that the case just about every town and village???


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 15, 2021)

They were doing road construction..but it was pretty damn crowded. The parks were crowded so much that if you didn't get there ..very early there was no where to park. I was just suprised by this ..but didn't care..I found it very cool. At times you felt you were on another planet. Some interesting real estate for sale as well. 50 acres with 3 livable caves was one in particular.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2021)

abc said:


> What traffic? I was there twice this year. There's some traffic and you may have to wait for the light to change. But that's it. Nothing I'd term "nuts"! Nothing like the Cottonwood canyons. Nothing like I-70 on the Front range. Nothing of course like NYC or surrounding area. So I don't know what you're talking about!
> 
> I don't know what it was like 20 years ago. I'm sure it's less. But aren't that the case just about every town and village???


Last year UDOT widened the main road to eliminate the bottleneck that resulted in long delays getting into town from the north.  From what I saw last month that helped a lot but there is a lot of traffic there--much more so than on my first visit in 2013.  Moab is really booming.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> They were doing road construction..but it was pretty damn crowded. The parks were crowded so much that if you didn't get there ..very early there was no where to park. I was just suprised by this ..but didn't care..I found it very cool. At times you felt you were on another planet. Some interesting real estate for sale as well. 50 acres with 3 livable caves was one in particular.


Yes, Arches fills up now before 9am most days.  It is crazy.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Utah is not the only place booming...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think I have been to Williston in almost 8 years.


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## JimG. (Nov 15, 2021)

XTski said:


> Harvey isn’t that one of your top contributors Marznc? looks like him


lol not even close!!!


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 15, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> I don't think I have been to Williston in almost 8 years.


Looking at houses up there..we are thinking rather than escaping civilization..to rejoin it.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Looking at houses up there..we are thinking rather than escaping civilization..to rejoin it.



If I were to move back to VT, it would be Waterbury.  Williston really has little to offer and Waterbury is only 15 further from Burlington.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 15, 2021)

Good luck finding a place in Waterbury..I gave up there. I'm watching the market all the time. Williston is near Stowe and SB..near the hwy..near every store on earth..and the houses get sold quickly...we have a 5 year plan. Always think resale.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Good luck finding a place in Waterbury..I gave up there. I'm watching the market all the time. Williston is near Stowe and SB..near the hwy..near every store on earth..and the houses get sold quickly...we have a 5 year plan. Always think resale.


Are you keeping your condo as well?


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 15, 2021)

yup...might be able to pay it off and make it cash positive..and have a place to chill out near Stowe.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Are you keeping your condo as well?





Kingslug20 said:


> Good luck finding a place in Waterbury..I gave up there. I'm watching the market all the time. Williston is near Stowe and SB..near the hwy..near every store on earth..and the houses get sold quickly...we have a 5 year plan. Always think resale.



I haven't really looked at Waterbury market in forever.  I just knew when I left in 2005, that's the town I'd relocate back to given the choice.  

I lived in both Stowe and Burlington as a college student in the 90s when all that Williston farmland off 89 got turned into the suburban big box strip mall that it is today.   It's not much different than 20 years ago.  There's just more spec housing developments.  If you want to go out to eat or experience any "civilization", you're still driving to downtown Burlington.   Some okay restaurants in Williston, but Waterbury has better.

So, my thought is, I'd either want to live right in Burlington or be closer to skiing in a cooler town than Williston; like Waterbury.   Doesn't surprise me to read that housing in Waterbury is tough to find.  Perfect location.  30 minutes to Stowe, Sugarbush and Burlington, 15 minutes to Montpelier, which I think is an underrated town to hang out in as well.


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## abc (Nov 15, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes, Arches fills up now before 9am most days.  It is crazy.


Actually, that's kind of misinformation.

The park doesn't start checking for passes until 9am. So anyone driving up "before 9am" gets in for free with no wait whatsoever!

It's between 9-11 that's the problem. Usually after 11, the lines are gone. And somehow space mysteriously becomes available.

For the time I was there, I was able to get in either before 9 or after 12 everyday I wish to get in. But on some of the days I drove past it between 9-11 on my way to Canyonland or Dead Horse and noticed the board at Arches showing "Full". Still not "most days". Maybe just half of the days I drove by.


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## jaytrem (Nov 15, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes, Arches fills up now before 9am most days.  It is crazy.


That place is too dangerous anyway.  Skinned my knee there when I was 7 years old, no way I'm going back.  Also, I don't recall it being crowded at all that day, so you're full of shit!


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 15, 2021)

The market is nuts now...cash offer..well..thats not enough cash..houses selling in a day now..


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## Smellytele (Nov 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> The market is nuts now...cash offer..well..thats not enough cash..houses selling in a day now..


It’s been slowing down here in NH now.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> It’s been slowing down here in NH now.



Not on the Seacoast.  Had three homes in my neighborhood go up for sale on Friday, two were under contract by yesterday.  I bet the third doesn't make it to the end of the week.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 16, 2021)

We are in a bidding war now...we shall see.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 16, 2021)

We won the war...the slugs are heading to VT!


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## jaytrem (Nov 16, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> We won the war...the slugs are heading to VT!


Congrats!  Where about?


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 16, 2021)

Williston.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 16, 2021)

congrats!

Its the dream many of us have, but not everyone can attain!


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 16, 2021)

I'll find work after some time off..I just know I won't be retired for long. Probably after ski season.


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## Harvey (Nov 16, 2021)

XTski said:


> Harvey isn’t that one of your top contributors Marznc? looks like him



She is certainly the one you are most interested in. You need to let it go man. The ski pants and all of it. It's creepy.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> We won the war...the slugs are heading to VT!


Seller won most likely


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 16, 2021)

why are you the worst? 

thats saying somethin, coming from me.


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## skiur (Nov 16, 2021)

I guess I missed something


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## cdskier (Nov 16, 2021)

skiur said:


> I guess I missed something


Glad it isn't just me!


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## raisingarizona (Nov 17, 2021)

XTski said:


> You somebody’s homer? If you look that picture looks identical to the dude big time coincidence but Harvey didn’t have sling an insult, since he felt compelled to do that I thought why not show what a real creep is, you don’t know what’s going on but you insult people yourself, that’s what you enjoy doing? Harvey admitted marz was doing something wrong (spamming) and told him “ not to do that for a week “ so I said the hell with that place, information is power, you are like Harvey try and ridicule what you don’t like, F off


What? Harv is one of the best. This is ridiculous.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> What? Harv is one of the best. This is ridiculous.



Yup,

Does a great job with his site.  I read it frequently, even though I'm not a contributing member.


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## cdskier (Nov 17, 2021)

We've had enough drama on this forum itself over the years...now we're bringing drama from other forums to this one? This shit has nothing to do with Alpinezone other than 1 of the people from the other forum happens to post here too.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 17, 2021)

lol. this guy is fuckin unhinged. i got that vibe from his first 40 posts, but the last 8 or so are just ::chefs kiss::

crawl back under your rock weirdo.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2021)

XTski said:


> So your a Harvey homer huh? No wonder you gave me crap, I am glad you showed your true colors, I knew you were one of his patsies, I am just thankful you admitted it



Not a Harvey homer or patsy.  He's simply been a long time contributor on this site and has never caused issues with anyone here.  If you have beef with him elsewhere, maybe keep your drama there instead of chasing him around the internet like a weirdo to cause problems on other sites like AZ. 

My criticism of you in the legalize it thread had nothing to do with Harvey btw.  You and I simply did not see eye to eye on that particular matter.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 17, 2021)

XTski said:


> View attachment 52206
> For those that said they must have missed something, these things about Harvey were sent by the woman who got ripped off because of the spammer he has on his site, the one he said couldn’t post for a week, he is so desperate for content you can do bad shit and still post as long as you kiss his ass





XTski said:


> , what’s creepy is you making a woman “romance you” before you would agree to marry her? come on man, have some respect for women, that’s who I was trying to help who got scammed thanks to your site


Great.  Who cares?  What does this have to do with Alta and the discussion?  Absolutely nothing.  Take your vendetta somewhere else.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 17, 2021)

Where on the doll did Harvey touch you?


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## abc (Nov 17, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Where on the doll did Harvey touch you?


Maybe XTski is a woman?


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## Smellytele (Nov 17, 2021)

abc said:


> Maybe XTski is a woman?


Maybe that doll is?


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## raisingarizona (Nov 17, 2021)

abc said:


> Maybe XTski is a woman?


No, I think I know who it is. If it is this person, he’s a grade a D-bag with a hard on for messing with Harvey. He’s got serious anger issues.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 17, 2021)

XTski said:


> So that’s why you felt the need to insult me because your that scum bag friend.? Here is where he bragged about getting a free trip with some rich scum bag who was fired for the way he treated women and you think Harvey is okay, he takes bribes to better himself and doesn’t give a crap about women?
> 
> View attachment 52205 Harvey took a free trip from a guy he said was an asshole to women, and you are saying he is good? Your in the club of those “ who really like Harvey “ doesn’t matter what kind of an ass you are, just hook Harvey up and you are his buddy, you are a low life


It sounds like he figured it out during the trip. That’s just an uncomfortable and awkward position to be in. You’re reaching for something that isn’t there. Take a lap beater.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 17, 2021)

jackie treehorn treats objects like women, man.


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## Harvey (Nov 17, 2021)

My apologies to thetrailboss, DHS and the forum for pushing this thread off track. I generally don't get into it online with people who troll our forum.  The last time I did was 5 years ago, when Dickgazinya told me my sister deserved to die, after she passed from cancer.

Being a forum mod can be frustrating. You have to be so damn MODERATE all the time.  Most of us are skiers with strong opinions, and you've often got to bite your tongue. I'm impressed with the restraint the AZ mods show. I think you guys are among the best.

Regarding that smack up thread, I'm not proud of the fact that I took that free ski trip from a masoginist, 30 years ago. At the time I was invited, I didn't really understand the big picture. I got NO SHAME about the way I got engaged, I consider it a classic tale.

X, TBH I still don't understand why you are so bummed at Marz. She posted some gofundme link on SkiDiva for a company selling ski pants like three years ago? His wife bought a pair of them and they were apparently no good.  I take full responsibility.

Now let's get back to bitching about paid parking! I'm a pro, been doing it for years:









						Paid Parking at Gore Mountain
					

I had a chance to see it in action.




					nyskiblog.com


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## abc (Nov 17, 2021)

Harvey said:


> *She* posted some gofundme link on SkiDiva for a company selling ski pants like three years ago? *His wife *bought a pair of them and they were apparently no good. I take full responsibility.


Something's lost in translation?


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## speden (Nov 17, 2021)

Who needs soap operas when we've got AZ. This plot is complicated


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## Cobbold (Nov 17, 2021)

Wish I knew what was going, but I have trouble following things on social media.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 17, 2021)

Harvey said:


> My apologies to thetrailboss, DHS and the forum for pushing this thread off track. I generally don't get into it online with people who troll our forum.  The last time I did was 5 years ago, when Dickgazinya told me my sister deserved to die, after she passed from cancer.
> 
> Being a forum mod can be frustrating. You have to be so damn MODERATE all the time.  Most of us are skiers with strong opinions, and you've often got to bite your tongue. I'm impressed with the restraint the AZ mods show. I think you guys are among the best.


No worries.  You're good.




Harvey said:


> X, TBH I still don't understand why you are so bummed at Marz. She posted some gofundme link on SkiDiva for a company selling ski pants like three years ago? His wife bought a pair of them and they were apparently no good.  I take full responsibility.


OK, now THAT is a backstory I need to hear!  Sounds like something out of Curb Your Enthusiasm.  "These pants were supposed to make me look thinner.  They DON'T!" or something like that.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 18, 2021)

Ok..paid parking sux...lets continue on that theme.....


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## bigbob (Dec 17, 2021)

Edd said:


> Wildcat charging for parking is a hilarious concept.


Wildcat should be paying the pass holders for lack of open terrain!


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