# oink oink



## 2knees (Apr 29, 2009)

school system in my town is closed due to suspected swine flu case of a middle school worker.

neighbors on each side have a kid in middle school.

grassi, come over here, i want to cough on you


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## Grassi21 (Apr 29, 2009)

2knees said:


> school system in my town is closed due to suspected swine flu case of a middle school worker.
> 
> neighbors on each side have a kid in middle school.
> 
> grassi, come over here, i want to cough on you



cool.  let's go swap some spit at tyer mill.  ;-)  :lol:

there is a suspected case in southbury....


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## hammer (Apr 29, 2009)

2knees said:


> school system in my town is closed due to suspected swine flu case of a middle school worker.
> 
> neighbors on each side have a kid in middle school.
> 
> grassi, come over here, i want to cough on you


I understand the immediate reaction but the flu's going to be around for a while...how long can schools stay shut down?


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## 2knees (Apr 29, 2009)

hammer said:


> I understand the immediate reaction but the flu's going to be around for a while...how long can schools stay shut down?



i think its panic, to be honest.  whats the point in closing them after the guy go sick.  apparently, there is a 10 day incubation period with the virus.  if the dude really has it, he's already passed it to everybody there.

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!


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## Warp Daddy (Apr 29, 2009)

The Press and Media love the fear mongering  gotta generate some controversy  , advertising revenue is non - existant  while print , ink and labor costs are out of controll----------------another dinosaur is dying in the swamp  hear it squeal


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## Greg (Apr 29, 2009)

I heard an interesting fact yesterday that over 30,000 people die each year from the regular old vanilla flu. I don't think anyone has died from swine flu yet. The concern is that basically nobody is immune to it and apparently it can mutate easily.


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## RootDKJ (Apr 29, 2009)

5 reported cases in the great Garden State.  I should stay safe until this passes over.


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## severine (Apr 29, 2009)

Greg said:


> I heard an interesting fact yesterday that over 30,000 people die each year from the regular old vanilla flu. I don't think anyone has died from swine flu yet. The concern is that basically nobody is immune to it and apparently it can mutate easily.


250,000+ worldwide every year
But you never hear anything about that.

And a 23-month old in Texas was reported as a casualty of swine flu this morning. I think that's the first in the U.S.

On the other hand, swine flu is not new (in the 1976 panic, only one soldier died of it, but many more died or were damaged by the quickly-made vaccine that was manufactured to combat it), virii mutate rapidly, and it wasn't until recently that they even began regularly looking for atypical flu virii. Nothing new. Just creating panic to distract from other things.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 29, 2009)

Greg said:


> I heard an interesting fact yesterday that over 30,000 people die each year from the regular old vanilla flu. I don't think anyone has died from swine flu yet. The concern is that basically nobody is immune to it and apparently it can mutate easily.



http://www.boston.com/news/health/a...ficials_trying_to_reduce_impact_of_swine_flu/


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## Grassi21 (Apr 29, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> 5 reported cases in the great Garden State.  I should stay safe until this passes over.



Good point.  I will have to seek safety sometime after lunch.  But there was suspected case in my town.  Maybe I should seek immediate safety.....


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## mondeo (Apr 29, 2009)

severine said:


> 250,000+ worldwide every year
> But you never hear anything about that.


That's because the typical flu doesn't have the potential to reach 1918 pandemic levels. Mortality rates are low and target the old, very young, and otherwise weak. This one is most likely a false alarm like the Asian bird flus of recent years, but has a higher mortality rate, passes easily from human to human, kills young, healthy individuals, and is a new strain, meaning low immunity levels. And the first case was reported a few days ago; outbreaks grow in numbers exponentially, and with a 10 day incubation period, the worst is yet to come.

The 1918 outbreak killed 50-100 million people. That was before widespread air travel. Another virus like that would have completely devastating impacts on the world; some caution is reasonable.


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## bvibert (Apr 29, 2009)

Booo!  I was expecting another story about cooking up a pound of bacon in a drunken stupor during the middle of the night.


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## Grassi21 (Apr 29, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Booo!  I was expecting another story about cooking up a pound of bacon in a drunken stupor during the middle of the night.



:lol:  i forgot about that.  next time it happens we need pics!


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## bvibert (Apr 29, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> :lol:  i forgot about that.  next time it happens we need pics!



That story is legend in my house. :beer:


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## severine (Apr 29, 2009)

mondeo said:


> The 1918 outbreak killed 50-100 million people. That was before widespread air travel. Another virus like that would have completely devastating impacts on the world; some caution is reasonable.


Remember that the healthcare available in 1918 was not what it is today. This is also why you're seeing more mortality in Mexico than in the U.S.

And I have news for you: new strains of all virii are constantly coming out. Why do you think they have to make new flu vaccines every year? And even then, it's only a guess as to which one will be the predominate strain that hits. (I won't get started on vaxes though...) There will always be a new strain of something or other, and if we keep doing stupid stuff, then yes, they will turn into super bugs that are hard to kill. Historically, though, the idea is nothing new and is unlikely to have the mortality rates of superbugs of the past. I'm not saying go out and make out with someone who has it; but this is blown out of proportion.


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## 2knees (Apr 29, 2009)

severine said:


> I'm not saying go out and make out with someone who has it; .




come here and lay one on me.....


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## Glenn (Apr 29, 2009)

The news went ga-ga over this in the AM. The even had Gov Rell call in. Then they said: "We don't want to panic anyone. There haven't been any confirmed cases here in CT....yet." Unreal. 

I worry about all the overhyped media coverage on this...the bird flew, SARS and all that fun stuff. A lot of these haven't really "evolved" into a bad pandemic. I worry the media is "crying wolf" and when the flu really hits the fan, people will be a bit numb to it.


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## mondeo (Apr 29, 2009)

severine said:


> Remember that the healthcare available in 1918 was not what it is today. This is also why you're seeing more mortality in Mexico than in the U.S.


That's great, except in the case of a pandemic. The problem with a pandemic is not that you can't treat it, it's that it spreads so quickly and in such large numbers that it overwhelms the capacity to treat. 


> And I have news for you: new strains of all virii are constantly coming out. Why do you think they have to make new flu vaccines every year? And even then, it's only a guess as to which one will be the predominate strain that hits. (I won't get started on vaxes though...) There will always be a new strain of something or other, and if we keep doing stupid stuff, then yes, they will turn into super bugs that are hard to kill. Historically, though, the idea is nothing new and is unlikely to have the mortality rates of superbugs of the past. I'm not saying go out and make out with someone who has it; but this is blown out of proportion.


There are constantly new variations of old strains coming out. The difference here (and with the avian flus) is that it's significantly different from strains we've already been exposed to, unlike the seasonal flus which tend to be mild mutations of last year's strain. Which is why the mortality rate here is higher; typically 0.1% for flus, so the current 2-5% number is pretty high. New variations on old bugs aren't that big a deal. A strain that had previously been contained to pigs or birds and suddenly becomes transmissable human to human can be a big deal, because it's the pigs or birds that are somewhat immunized against the bug, not the humans.


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## severine (Apr 29, 2009)

mondeo said:


> That's great, except in the case of a pandemic. The problem with a pandemic is not that you can't treat it, it's that it spreads so quickly and in such large numbers that it overwhelms the capacity to treat.
> 
> There are constantly new variations of old strains coming out. The difference here (and with the avian flus) is that it's significantly different from strains we've already been exposed to, unlike the seasonal flus which tend to be mild mutations of last year's strain. Which is why the mortality rate here is higher; typically 0.1% for flus, so the current 2-5% number is pretty high. New variations on old bugs aren't that big a deal. A strain that had previously been contained to pigs or birds and suddenly becomes transmissable human to human can be a big deal, because it's the pigs or birds that are somewhat immunized against the bug, not the humans.


You have an answer for everything, don't you? 

Not to get all conspiracy-theorist on everyone, but... there is the potential that this was lab-designed and released. Not necessarily by our government; there are plenty of wacko groups out there and germ-warfare is documented.


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## ctenidae (Apr 30, 2009)

How swine flu is transmitted.
With bonus bacon referrence.
And a cute kitten.
And a baby pig.


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## powbmps (May 3, 2009)

Well I survived my trip to Cancun.  Just made it back tonight.  Of course I could wake up dead tomorrow.

The principal called me in Mexico to let me know that the school board held a special meeting to develop some sort of "protocol" for this type of situation.  Need to call Monday to see when my kids can go back to school.


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## dmc (May 3, 2009)




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## jack97 (May 3, 2009)

severine said:


> Remember that the healthcare available in 1918 was not what it is today. This is also why you're seeing more mortality in Mexico than in the U.S.





mondeo said:


> That's great, except in the case of a pandemic. The problem with a pandemic is not that you can't treat it, it's that it spreads so quickly and in such large numbers that it overwhelms the capacity to treat.



Our ability to travel is alot different than what is was back in 1918. Apparently, the virus has shown up in most of the states and other parts of the world. In one way it's good that this is a mild virus and that it will give researchers real life data on how fast the virus has spread.


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## drjeff (May 5, 2009)

While I'm quite glad that it appears that this outbreak is very quickly becoming controled/contained and that it isn't nearly as widespread or as virulent as feared, it is in a semi-perverse way fun to watch the media do it's best to back pedal on this since hands down they blew this way out of porportion.  Just remember that the "common flu" kills on average 35-40,000 americans a year and has done so for almost 2 decades, and you just plain and simple don't see wide scale mask wearing and school closures all winter long like you have the last 10 days or so.  Just like with the regular flu, the high risk population (the very young, the very old and the medically compromised) needs to be cautious, but general widespread hysteria/panic that has beset many HEALTHY folks recently is quite uncalled for IMHO.

Infectious disease virulence initially can be a tough thing to guage,  but creating widescale anxiety before things can be guaged is an issue too.


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## Greg (May 5, 2009)

drjeff said:


> While I'm quite glad that it appears that this outbreak is very quickly becoming controled/contained and that it isn't nearly as widespread or as virulent as feared, it is in a semi-perverse way fun to watch the media do it's best to back pedal on this since hands down they blew this way out of porportion.  Just remember that the "common flu" kills on average 35-40,000 americans a year and has done so for almost 2 decades, and you just plain and simple don't see wide scale maske wearing and school closure all winter long like you have the last 10 days or so.  Just like with the regular flu, the high risk population (the very young, the very old and the mediclly compromised) needs to be cautious, but general widespread hysteria/panic that has beset many HEALTHY folks recently is quite uncalled for IMHO.
> 
> Infectious disease virulence initially can be a tough thing to guage,  but creating widescale anxiety before things can be guaged is an issue too.



Totally. Schools were shutting down in CT for "suspected" cases. That's just retarded. And now it's being referred to as the H1N1 virus. That must make it sound more scarier or something. This thing was total hype.


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## Glenn (May 5, 2009)

There was a mother on the news this morning freaking out. A student in one school had the flu....just came back from Mexico. But they never came back to school; too sick to go. But their sibling did. So the mom was just freaking out this the sick kid's bother/sister was in school. 

People need to chill out. Between the flu and weenie snow storms, I'm sure they missed a lot of school this year.


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## dmc (May 5, 2009)

ALBANY – State Health Commissioner Dr. Richard Daines Monday announced there are five confirmed cases of swine flu in the Hudson Valley. Three are in Orange County and two are in Westchester. None of the other counties has any confirmed cases and the two suspected cases in Rockland were found to be negative.

Daines said the Centers for Disease Control said that the five probable cases were, in fact, confirmed.

“With CDC validation all case of H1N1 tested previously by the department’s Wadsworth Laboratories and previously reported as probable are now considered confirmed cases,” he said. “As a result, 16 previously reported probable cases in the state outside New York City are now confirmed cases of H1Ni,” he said.

There are a total of 90 confirmed cases in New York, 73 of which are in the City of New York and the remainder spread across the state.

Orange County Health Commissioner Dr. Jean Hudson said all three individuals tested have received appropriate treatments and are recovering or are completely recovered. 
http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2009/May09/05/swineflu-05May09.html


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## wa-loaf (May 5, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Infectious disease virulence initially can be a tough thing to gauge,  but creating wide scale anxiety before things can be gauged is an issue too.



Definitely, I think the CDC and WHO were doing the right thing by being cautious about it, but then the media comes in and yells fire. :smash:


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## bvibert (May 5, 2009)

Greg said:


> This thing was total hype.



So, are you saying that my work outfit for the last couple weeks has been unnecessary? :dunce:





http://www.biotestofcleveland.com/images/bio-suit1.gif


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## wa-loaf (May 5, 2009)




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## severine (May 5, 2009)

Love it, wa-loaf! :lol: I especially love the dance sequence at the end.


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## Dr Skimeister (May 5, 2009)

Greg said:


> Totally. Schools were shutting down in CT for "suspected" cases. That's just retarded. *And now it's being referred to as the H1N1 virus. That must make it sound more scarier or something.* This thing was total hype.



A huge part of the name change is on account of successful lobbying by legislators from pork-producing locales. Amongst the boat-load of misinformation that our over-zealous media propagated was the possibility that ingestion of pork had a link to this flu. Pig farmers took an unnecessary hit.


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## Bumpsis (May 5, 2009)

*Virii ???*



severine said:


> Remember that the healthcare available in 1918 was not what it is today. This is also why you're seeing more mortality in Mexico than in the U.S.
> 
> And I have news for you: new strains of all virii are constantly coming out. Why do you think they have to make new flu vaccines every year? And even then, it's only a guess as to which one will be the predominate strain that hits. (I won't get started on vaxes though...) There will always be a new strain of something or other, and if we keep doing stupid stuff, then yes, they will turn into super bugs that are hard to kill. Historically, though, the idea is nothing new and is unlikely to have the mortality rates of superbugs of the past. I'm not saying go out and make out with someone who has it; but this is blown out of proportion.



You seem to be really confused on the subject of viruses.

The plural of virus is viruses not viri or virii. Not all latin nouns ending with -us have a plural form ending with -i. Virus was known in latin as a mass noun, like air, so applying any of the latin declensions is just can't be done. So converting virus to its supposed latin plural just can't be done. It makes the user sound more erudite but it misses.  Actually "viri" in latin means "men".

Second point: You mix up the concept of increased drug resistance which is a real problem with bacteria but it applies much less so to viruses. In case of bacteria, we cause them to mutate selectively by reckless exposure to antibitic compunds. Antibiotics do nothing to viruses. It's a completely different process.

Lastly, I think that the difference in mortality due to the H1N1 in Mexico vs US is probably due to difference the general life aspects such as nutrion and abilty to have running water (for personal hygene) rather than in actual health care. If you're in poor health to begin with (ie. weak immune system), you're much more susceptable to having a worse outcome when hit with the flu.


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## severine (May 5, 2009)

Bumpsis said:


> You seem to be really confused on the subject of viruses.
> 
> The plural of virus is viruses not viri or virii. Not all latin nouns ending with -us have a plural form ending with -i. Virus was known in latin as a mass noun, like air, so applying any of the latin declensions is just can't be done. So converting virus to its supposed latin plural just can't be done. It makes the user sound more erudite but it misses.  Actually "viri" in latin means "men".
> 
> ...


I never took Latin. So I put the wrong plural form of "virus"; that has nothing to do with knowledge about virus*es* as a whole. That's like judging everyone on here's knowledge based upon their grammar *and spelling*; irrelevant (and would make many on here appear to be retarded). (BTW, before you judge someone else on their spelling, check yours; my spell check is having a field day with your post.)

I know antibiotics do nothing to viruses. HOWEVER I also know that viruses are living organisms that adapt, and rapidly at that. Is HIV not a virus? Was this always around in humans or something that developed, for the most part, in the latter part of the 20th Century? Is it not spread by being stupid? Yes, bacteria and viruses are different organism, but that does not mean that viruses do not mutate on their own (or in this case, quite likely in the lab with a little help) and grow stronger with time. BTW, while you have made the leap that I was inferring the over-use of antibiotics as the contributing "stupid stuff" factor in my post, that was not what I meant. I meant more of the messing around in labs creating monsters. And yes, our bodies do kill them if we recover, and have a harder time doing so with a stronger bug.

I agree that general quality of life and health/nutrition are contributing factors. I did not add that in my original post; forgive me. I did not realize I was expected to write a complete dissertation on my views, findings, studies, and opinions on the virus. My mistake.

ETA: I will add that part of the "stupid stuff" to which I was referring deals with vaccinations, which are aimed at virus*es*. But again, I will not get into that discussion on here.


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## o3jeff (May 5, 2009)

powbmps said:


> Well I survived my trip to Cancun.  Just made it back tonight.  Of course I could wake up dead tomorrow.
> 
> The principal called me in Mexico to let me know that the school board held a special meeting to develop some sort of "protocol" for this type of situation.  Need to call Monday to see when my kids can go back to school.



I'm curious, did they allow your kids to go back to school yet? The towns people treating you like you have SARS?


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## Bumpsis (May 5, 2009)

severine said:


> I never took Latin. So I put the wrong plural form of "virus"; that has nothing to do with knowledge about virus*es* as a whole. That's like judging everyone on here's knowledge based upon their grammar *and spelling*; irrelevant (and would make many on here appear to be retarded). (BTW, before you judge someone else on their spelling, check yours; my spell check is having a field day with your post.)
> 
> I know antibiotics do nothing to viruses. HOWEVER I also know that viruses are living organisms that adapt, and rapidly at that. Is HIV not a virus? Was this always around in humans or something that developed, for the most part, in the latter part of the 20th Century? Is it not spread by being stupid? Yes, bacteria and viruses are different organism, but that does not mean that viruses do not mutate on their own (or in this case, quite likely in the lab with a little help) and grow stronger with time. BTW, while you have made the leap that I was inferring the over-use of antibiotics as the contributing "stupid stuff" factor in my post, that was not what I meant. I meant more of the messing around in labs creating monsters. And yes, our bodies do kill them if we recover, and have a harder time doing so with a stronger bug.
> 
> ...



Admittedly, my spelling could be better and I should get into the habit of reading my own posts to make corrections, garmmar or otherwise. However, I think I do pretty well on clarity. 

And that's where I had trouble with your post. I assumed that the "stupid stuff" had to do with generation  antibiotic resistant strains(ie. "superbugs). Thant is a know and established fact for bacteria and fungi. I was just pointing out that it is not quite so for viruses (with respect to antibiotics).

Now I see that what you meant was that the process of vaccination produces seperbugs. You wrote: "There will always be a new strain of something or other, and if we keep doing stupid stuff, then yes, they will turn into super bugs that are hard to kill." 

Is that really what you meant?

Oh, by the way, viruses are not living organisms.


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## severine (May 5, 2009)

Bumpsis said:


> Admittedly, my spelling could be better and I should get into the habit of reading my own posts to make corrections, garmmar or otherwise. However, I think I do pretty well on clarity.
> 
> And that's where I had trouble with your post. I assumed that the "stupid stuff" had to do with generation  antibiotic resistant strains(ie. "superbugs). Thant is a know and established fact for bacteria and fungi. I was just pointing out that it is not quite so for viruses (with respect to antibiotics).
> 
> ...



I am not a microbiologist/scientist/etc/etc/etc, so forgive my layman's terms here. Yes, viruses straddle the definition of living and not:


> "Viruses exist in two distinct states. When not in contact with a host cell, the virus remains entirely dormant. During this time there are no internal biological activities occurring within the virus, and in essence the virus is no more than a static organic particle. In this simple, clearly non-living state viruses are referred to as 'virions'. Virions can remain in this dormant state for extended periods of time, waiting patiently to come into contact with the appropriate host. When the virion comes into contact with the appropriate host, it becomes active and is then referred to as a virus. _It now displays properties typified by living organisms_, such as reacting to its environment and directing its efforts toward self-replication". From The Bacteriophage T4 Virus


http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/yellowstone/viruslive.html ~ (italics added by me)

Screwing around in labs with genetic codes, whether it be with viruses (whether creating for germ warfare or the vaccination process, which has a very ugly side to it), making tomatoes with bug DNA to protect them from harm, etc, etc, is, IMHO, asking for trouble. Perhaps it's merely accelerating the inevitable, but it's definitely problematic.

As for clarity issues, you're talking about posts I made at 10:04AM and 12:02PM. Have you ever been a stay-at-home-mom? I lack clarity because I lack focus because I have a 2-year-old and 4-year-old constantly interrupting my thought process, whether that's by: screaming at each other, screaming because they want something, requiring a diaper change, climbing on me, hitting the keys on the keyboard, grabbing the mouse while I'm using it, breaking things, tormenting the dog, getting into things they shouldn't, etc, etc, etc. I'm surprised by the amount of clarity I do manage under the circumstances. Forgive me for not doing a better job filtering and ensuring my complete thoughts are properly and completely expressed.


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## dmc (May 5, 2009)

I'm teaching a class to some people from Columbia, Japan and Korea this week... They all arrived last night..   I don't like to take chance and normally try to avoid bugs while traveling..  But today my hands are dry from hand wipes after the initial hand shake session...   
I was also a bit tired and had to stop myself from rubbing my eyes..   

Hype... whatever... I don't want the flu..   And I don't want my visitors to get sick either...


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## dmc (May 5, 2009)

severine said:


> I am not a microbiologist/scientist/etc/etc/etc



But you play one on TV?  




severine said:


> Yes, viruses straddle the definition of living and not:



Coolest thing I learned today... For real..


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## severine (May 6, 2009)

dmc said:


> But you play one on TV?


You got me! 



dmc said:


> Coolest thing I learned today... For real..


Amazing what a little bit of genetic code can do, eh? It was an interesting link, though I have not had time to research the validity of the information presented.


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## Bumpsis (May 6, 2009)

severine said:


> http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/yellowstone/viruslive.html ~ (italics added by me)
> 
> Screwing around in labs with genetic codes, whether it be with viruses (whether creating for germ warfare or the vaccination process, which has a very ugly side to it), making tomatoes with bug DNA to protect them from harm, etc, etc, is, IMHO, asking for trouble. Perhaps it's merely accelerating the inevitable, but it's definitely problematic.



I'm much less concerned about lab generated microbes (it's not so easy), be it viruses or bacteria, than how poultry and pork are produced for the masses. Those are the the major fires that stoke the recombination (generation of new strains) process of the flu virues. It is quite clear that the question of a really deadly pandemic is not if but when.
Last issue of Newsweek actually has a well written article about this.

The link that severine provided on viruses is quite good.


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## Beetlenut (May 6, 2009)

To add more fuel to the fire, here's some excerpts from an email I received from someone today. I don't necessarily subscribe to all the views presented here, but it does make you think. Don't shoot the messenger...

From: Natural Solutions Foundation
Health Freedom Alert 

Living in a Time of Wonder. I wonder how and why:


1. Deaths in Mexico have gone from 168 to 16. Now that is REAL healing! Where are the hundreds of deaths the MMD (media of mass deception) were originally reporting? Where are the thousands of deaths they predicted?

2. CDC said that we should expect to see more severe cases of the Swine Flu on April 26 despite the fact that NONE of the cases they have identified are at all severe. 
"We are seeing more cases of swine flu, and we expect to see more cases of swine flu," said Richard Besser, Director of the CDC, at a White House briefing. "I would expect that over time we are going to see more severe disease in this 
country."http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/04/26/cdc-head-expect-more-severe-cases/


3. CDC prepared a "seed stock by April 24, just 10 days after the previously unknown disease was identified. Here's is what it takes to prepare a seed stock:

"Scientists first have to decide which flu strains to use in the vaccine-they typically pick three, based on predictions of how the virus will evolve by next year. (It's still unclear whether they'll include the swine flu in next year's seasonal flu vaccine.) They then inject the strains into chicken embryos, wait for them to multiply, and extract them several days later to create a so-called "seed stock." http://www.slate.com/id/2217007/ Pretty good work for 10 days, I shouldn't wonder!

4. CDC "justified" declaring a "Health Emergency" on April 27, just 13 days after the "novel" Swine Flu was first "discovered" in a rural town in Mexico. 

5. Meriden Company would be able to produce a Swine Flu Virus in just six weeks on April 28. Here is what it takes to produce a vaccine AFTER the seed stock is produced: " inject the [viral] strains into chicken embryos, wait for them to multiply, and extract them several days later to create a so-called "seed stock." Then comes testing on lab animals, followed by any necessary adjustments to the stock. (Haste can have a price: During the swine flu outbreak of 1976, 500 people who got vaccinated developed <http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=ScGR%2F%2FkSPy257m%2BDz%2F1AEK1Eb8i3AAym> a disease called Guillain-Barré syndrome <http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=ia3n%2Bgz40WWE0ZF%2BQYrJVa1Eb8i3AAym> , and 25 of them died.) 
Once researchers have finalized the vaccine, they repeat the embryo injection process millions of times. So even if they finalize the vaccine in June, it will take at least until September to produce the first 50 million or so doses. Producing all 600 million doses-enough to give Americans the usual two shots-would take months longer.[Note that no testing in humans or other animals is involved in this schedule]
A new experimental method would grow the virus in individual cells instead of eggs. That process is a lot faster-it could shave weeks off the time it takes to create the seed stock-since cell cultures grow faster than eggs. But that method hasn't been approved yet by the FDA, and there are still doubts about its effectiveness." [Once again, using this vaccine at this stage would mean approving it in the absence of any animal or human testing] http://www.slate.com/id/2217007/

6. WHO raised the alert level to Phase 5, the start of a
Pandemic, on April 29 with one alleged death and only 91 confirmed human cases of a mild, inconsequential flu, with one death. At the moment the Phase 5 start of the Pandemic was created, countries reporting laboratory-confirmed cases with no deaths are: Austria (1), Canada (13), Germany (3), Israel (2), New Zealand (3), Spain (4) and the U.K. (5) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124116941340176895.html

7.WHO changed the name of the current "Pandemic" from "Swine Flu" to "H1N1Influenza" because the name "cause an unwarranted clampdown on pork trade" on April 30.http://www.canada.com/Health/changes+swine+name+influenza+H1N1/1549929/story.html
8. Hawaii's Governor, Linda Lingle, said that WHO was considering raising the alert status of the "Pandemic" to Level 6 on May 1 despite the lack of any meaningful threat. http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/health/index.ssf?/base/national-10/1241232303247520.xml&storylist=health

Saving the Best for Last
I wonder at the total absurdity of the following article, printed without change (make sure to read the last sentence!):
9. Ohio health officials say two more cases of H1N1, formerly known as swine flu, have been confirmed in Ohio. That brings the state's total to three. The victims are 31 years old and 33 years old, both are men and both are from Franklin County, near Columbus. Health officials confirmed, last week, a nine year old boy from Elyria has H1N1.
Pennsylvania health officials say there are still no confirmed cases of swine flu in the commonwealth, although they are listing five Philadelphia-area cases as probable. All cases reported so far have been in Philadelphia or Montgomery County.
The Center for Disease Control and Prevention says the outbreak continues to grow in the U.S. Officials gave an update Saturday afternoon and say they now have 160 confirmed cases of H1N1 in 21 states. MD/CDC Interim Deputy Director, Anne Schuchat, said, "The point is that the majority of cases don't have direct contact with Mexico. They didn't travel to Mexico. It is much more likely that people are getting this particular infection now from somebody who has no...from somebody within their own communities."
The World Health Organization has confirmed more than 700 cases of H1N1 flu worldwide so far, in at least 15 countries. And now, Canada officials say pigs have been infected and are under quarantine. It's the first known case of pigs having the virus." 
http://www.wytv.com/content/news/local/story/Latest-Update-on-H1N1-Flu/iKowfn7mVUqUHmGGGHlnhg.cspx
Political Pandemic


To my mind, the real threat here is decidedly NOT the disease although it is very clear that the novel virus was manufactured by a lab crew. That is threat enough. But there is more. To my way of thinking, this is a crass, cruel and horrifying example of intentional mayhem and death (although this pandemic, like Avian Flu and SARS has so far fizzled) used as a weapon of not only mass deception, but of mass destruction as well.

I do not believe that this episode, which is far from finished, is merely another exercise in fear mongering by agencies and of potential profiteering by Big Pharma… No, I believe there is additionally a heavy political agenda; a, dare we say, "mind control" agenda, whereby we are all being desensitized to the violations of privacy and health rights that become "normal" during a time of declared "medical emergency?"

The game plan, as I see it, was to have created a major epidemic, invoke the State's Emergency Medical Powers Acts of the States through which, when a Governnor declares a Pandemic, you MUST accept vaccination/treatment or you will automatically be declared to be felon and incarcerated/quarentined indefinitely.

This dovetails precisely with the federal powers invoked when the Secretary of Health and Human Services declares a Pandemic (which would happen first) and the same compulsions desend upon you: either accept vaccination/treatment or be involuntarily quarantined indefinitely.

If people resist, riot or protest? Marshal Law is right around the corner.

Foreign troops (including 300,000 Chinese troops reputed to be quartered at Edwards Air Force Base, in clear violation of the US Constitution) and domestic ones (including NorthCom, in whose mission this type of action lies), police and mercenaries are apparently ready, to one degree or another, to enforce these "safety measures".

Failing this scenario, there is also the political possibility of using the irrational and absurd "Health Emergency Alert" status of the US to divide the country in to the 10 FEMA regions, restrict movement and commerce and build the tension through the MMD, the Media of Mass Deception, so that, finally, when the savior vaccine arrives, the maximum number of people roll up their sleeves to be both "saved" from the "deadly" flu threat or be released from FEMA territorial restrictions.

Do I know this is what is in store for us? Of course not. But do I strongly suspect that these possibilities are not too far off the mark? Yes I do.

And while all this is going on, are you thinking about the insanity and criminality of the bailout? Of the weaponization and industrialization of all food production and control? Of the rapid coming of the new global currency? Of the dissolution of national states under the emergency authority of the United Nations, to whom all power is ceded under a state of "Global Pandemic"? Of course not.

This is the ultimate slight of hand. But instead of a rabbit magically pulled out of the hat, it is a weaponized vaccine in a syringe.

The syringe of death. Death to health, freedom and, very possibly, billions of people.


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## wa-loaf (May 6, 2009)

Beetlenut said:


> To add more fuel to the fire, here's some excerpts from an email I received from someone today. I don't necessarily subscribe to all the views presented here, but it does make you think. Don't shoot the messenger...
> 
> From: Natural Solutions Foundation
> Health Freedom Alert
> ...



The black helicopter crowd has landed!


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## Bumpsis (May 6, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> The black helicopter crowd has landed!



exactly my sentiments.
Beetlenut, although you said "don't shoot the messenger", you still propagated the message that's essentially nonsense.
It's incredible how easy it is conjure up this consipiracy bs.
"get your angry mob supplies"


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## Beetlenut (May 6, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> The black helicopter crowd has landed!


 


Bumpsis said:


> exactly my sentiments.
> Beetlenut, although you said "don't shoot the messenger", you still propagated the message that's essentially nonsense.
> It's incredible how easy it is conjure up this consipiracy bs.
> "get your angry mob supplies"


 
I also said "to add more fuel to the fire" in my disclaimer, to lively-up the discussion. Guess it worked. It's ok to sometimes think outside the tiny little box that defines your reality! Go sharpen your pitch fork now.


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## mondeo (May 6, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> The black helicopter crowd has landed!


+1.

If it were lab-made, it was done by retards. They couldn't even make it any worse than a regular flu. But people love their conspiracies.

I'm really not sure what the point of that thing Beetlenut posted was. The seed stock and vaccine development times are entirely reasonable, and the WHO pandemic levels are fairly clearly defined. I don't think you even need a death, per the definition, to get to level 6.


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## bvibert (May 6, 2009)

Would you people please stop bumping this thread?  Every time I see it in the index I have a desire to eat bacon...


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## Beetlenut (May 6, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Would you people please stop bumping this thread? Every time I see it in the index I have a desire to eat bacon...


 
My new briefcase for work:
View attachment 2582

and for you Brian:
View attachment 2583


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## wa-loaf (May 6, 2009)

A gift for mothers day:


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## bvibert (May 6, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> A gift for mothers day:



That looks more like a gift for Father's day.


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## drjeff (May 6, 2009)

And a new wallet






Breath mints





For your martini





And for your ice cream pleasure!





:lol:


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## wa-loaf (May 6, 2009)

Vacation house:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 6, 2009)

Beetlenut said:


> My new briefcase for work:
> View attachment 2582
> 
> and for you Brian:
> View attachment 2583





wa-loaf said:


> A gift for mothers day:





drjeff said:


> And a new wallet
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I'm gonna eat like a pound of bacon for dinner..thanks guys..but I'm microwaving it for stoke!!!!


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 7, 2009)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> you can keep the bacon I will take the girl ..



deal..we both win and the girl loses..


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## Greg (May 8, 2009)

I got a bit of a head cold. I was in one of the bathroom stalls blowing out snot like crazy. Some dude walked in, heard me, and got the hell out of there! :lol:


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## 2knees (May 13, 2009)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> you can keep the bacon I will take the girl ..





GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> deal..we both win and the girl loses..



now that is a bitch slap....


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## 2knees (May 13, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Vacation house:




winner


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 13, 2009)

2knees said:


> winner



winner winner chicken dinner..


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## hammer (Oct 18, 2009)

Bump...

Anyone been having problems getting seasonal or H1N1 shots?  Managed to get my daughter an H1N1 shot yesterday, but they ran out of seasonal flu vaccine and we were told "don't expect any more".  My and my wife's doctors ended up canceling flu shot clinics with no information on when they will start back up.

Seems a bit fishy that the local drug stores have vaccine available...at a price (not covered by insurance). :???:


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## severine (Oct 18, 2009)

Local drug stores ran out in our town on Friday. I wasn't there to get one--I was picking up a script and found a long line. The girl behind the counter explained that they were the last ones in town with the vaccine and had just administered their last dose, so they expect the crowds to diminish.

There were 11 confirmed cases recently in one pediatrician's office 1 town away, so that's probably why there's been such a rush around here. 

That said, we weren't even looking for it, even with kids in the high risk group and being high risk myself (I have asthma). 


Bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon, bacon...... Has Pat eaten a pound of it in the middle of the night lately?


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## Grassi21 (Oct 18, 2009)

I made jalapeno, bacon, and cheddar corn bread for the UConn tailgate.  I used a pound of bacon in 3 batches of cornbread.  I even used about 4 tbs of bacon grease in the corn bread.  pretty close to being overpowering with bacon.  but it does deliver!


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## bvibert (Oct 18, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> I made jalapeno, bacon, and cheddar corn bread for the UConn tailgate.  I used a pound of bacon in 3 batches of cornbread.  I even used about 4 tbs of bacon grease in the corn bread.  pretty close to being overpowering with bacon.  but it does deliver!



Holy crap, that sounds pretty good!


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## hammer (Dec 7, 2009)

Local town ran an H1N1 clinic on Saturday...initially I wasn't going to go because I didn't want to deal with the CF, but I heard there were no lines so the rest of the family got the vaccine.  They had 1200 doses, which was 4 times as many as a neighboring town with 3 times the population had for their clinic...go figure.  I had no problems with reactions, just a very small amount of soreness at the injection site.  A person who was with me wasn't as lucky...he usually doesn't get the flu shot and he had a short bout of dizziness about 10 minutes after the shot.

On a side note, as much as I enjoy bacon the grease smell after cooking two pounds of it can be a bit much.


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