# Something is Brewing at Sundown at it's not Beer!



## WoodCore (Jul 31, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/Ski.Sundow...07401614225/10152307915919226/?type=1&theater


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 31, 2014)

Must be a new bump run.....


----------



## ss20 (Jul 31, 2014)

Looks pretty narrow and straight for a trail...


----------



## thetrailboss (Jul 31, 2014)

Must be a lift line.


----------



## jarrodski (Jul 31, 2014)

Hi Everyone!   I get to be the guy to write here on AZ.  

We've cut a new trail! 

Satan’s Stairway, with a steeper, more consistent pitch than Gunny and a classic New England cut, there was no other name to give this trail. Located between the lifts, will give you a great vantage point of a true ripper of a run. 

Increasing skiable terrain does a few things for the mountain.  It obviously allows for bragging rights of a very challenging trail,  providing a mogul skiing venue the likes that are unavailable south of Vermont AND it allows us to keep Nor’ Easter groomed for corduroy skiing and snowboarding. 

It’s not enough to cut down some wood and sit back. The land has been graded to allow for EARLY SEASON OPENING.  We’re beyond confident in our ability to make snow on it, we’re looking forward to it!  The full power of Ski Sundown snow making awesomeness will bury this trail just as you’d expect from us.   

Full lighting from day 1.  boom 

Pay special attention to the mountain social media channels this fall.  We’re stoked.  We’re installing pipe, maintaining grass, adding lighting and gearing up for our most awesome opening of a winter season to date.  

Thank you to everyone loyal skiers and riders and especially pass holders who’ve invested their hard earned recreation time in us.  Thank you to every family who has raised their kids here at Ski Sundown.  We are beyond stoked to update and improve.  You guys are why we are here.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 31, 2014)

Wish Crotched or Gunstock had such a commitment to providing a good bump run for day and night skiing.


----------



## Domeskier (Jul 31, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> Hi Everyone!   I get to be the guy to write here on AZ.
> 
> 
> Increasing skiable terrain does a few things for the mountain.  It obviously allows for bragging rights of a very challenging trail,  providing a mogul skiing venue the likes that are unavailable south of Vermont AND it allows us to keep Nor’ Easter groomed for corduroy skiing and snowboarding.



  Awesome!


----------



## VTKilarney (Jul 31, 2014)

I love what I'm seeing at Sundown.  Is the trail distinct from the liftlines, or does it have the lifts on either side of the trail itself?


----------



## jarrodski (Jul 31, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> I love what I'm seeing at Sundown.  Is the trail distinct from the liftlines, or does it have the lifts on either side of the trail itself?


its its own trail, distinct from the lift line.  our lifts run way to low to the ground to allow skiing under them.


----------



## jarrodski (Jul 31, 2014)

keep the questions coming    i'll keep checking back throughout the day.    we're off to begin construction on the upper mountain snowmaking manifold.   we had to redesign the entire top of the mountain pipe net work to do this project.  yay


----------



## Domeskier (Jul 31, 2014)

Does this mean the end of spring bump skiing on Gunny??


----------



## Edd (Jul 31, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Wish Crotched or Gunstock had such a commitment to providing a good bump run for day and night skiing.



To be motivated they'd probably have to worry about losing market share to other hills. I don't think either of them are sweating it.


----------



## Smellytele (Jul 31, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Wish Crotched or Gunstock had such a commitment to providing a good bump run for day and night skiing.



Pats has one...


----------



## jarrodski (Jul 31, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Does this mean the end of spring bump skiing on Gunny??



it means the end of flat bumps on Nor Easter!  

we havent locked in any decision like that.  however, this new trail is gonna be far superior to gunny bumps.  there is no flat spot half way down, and the lower aspect on exhibition is steeper than lower gunny.  so really, i personally would push towards moving spring bumps to the center of the mountain


----------



## WoodCore (Jul 31, 2014)




----------



## Domeskier (Jul 31, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> it means the end of flat bumps on Nor Easter!
> 
> we havent locked in any decision like that.  however, this new trail is gonna be far superior to gunny bumps.  there is no flat spot half way down, and the lower aspect on exhibition is steeper than lower gunny.  so really, i personally would push towards moving spring bumps to the center of the mountain



Sounds good.  The trip back to the lifts from Gunny can be a pain anyway, esp. if the black triple isn't running...


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 31, 2014)

Edd said:


> To be motivated they'd probably have to worry about losing market share to other hills. I don't think either of them are sweating it.



Well, they did lose my season pass business for not offering quality bumps. :lol:  That was also a factor in me moving on from Ragged. 



Smellytele said:


> Pats has one...



Yup, love Hurricane and I love Pat's for what it is, especially the lodge / sled pub.  Unfortunately, the runs are just a bit too short for me to consider getting a pass there.  I probably would get a night skiing pass if I lived within 30 minutes or so of there though.


----------



## gmcunni (Jul 31, 2014)

Will it get good sun in the spring?


----------



## Savemeasammy (Jul 31, 2014)

Even though I'm not a Sundown skier, reading this news makes me feel as though the world is a slightly better place today.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Newpylong (Jul 31, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Well, they did lose my season pass business for not offering quality bumps. :lol:  That was also a factor in me moving on from Ragged.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, love Hurricane and I love Pat's for what it is, especially the lodge / sled pub.  Unfortunately, the runs are just a bit too short for me to consider getting a pass there.  I probably would get a night skiing pass if I lived within 30 minutes or so of there though.



You had a pass at Ragged and you live in Southeast NH? That's a trek for 1200 vert.

edit: though I guess there isn't much else in your area and Ragged skis big.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 31, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> You had a pass at Ragged and you live in Southeast NH? That's a trek for 1200 vert.
> 
> edit: though I guess there isn't much else in your area and Ragged skis big.



90 minutes door to door for me to get to Ragged.  5-10 minutes longer if I get caught behind someone slow on the back roads.  Sunapee and Loon are both slightly further from home, but also MUCH more expensive and crowded. 

Gunstock is a 70 minute drive, Crotched and Pats are 80 minutes. 

I essentially budget $8-900 a season on season pass and lift ticket expenses.  So, for the past 6 years living here, I've had passes to Ragged, Gunstock and Crotched and then buy various other discount products to be able to ski 10+ areas a season in addition to the home mountain.

In a perfect world for me, Crotched would offer an excellent seeded bump offering (like Sundown) and I'd stick with a Granite Pass for $619.  Then I would probably ski 10-15 days at Crotched and 5-10 between Attitash and Wildcat and still have a few hundred bucks in the budget to to buy a combination of RideandSkiNE, SkiVT or Fox44 cards to explore other areas of New England.

As it's now looking, I'm skipping a pass for next year and I"m going to buy all three of the above discount cards and just play the field for next season.

It's nice to have a pass to a particular mountain for convenience, but even without one I seem to always be able to get in 25-30 days a season for about $800, usually less.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 1, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> In a perfect world for me, Crotched would offer an excellent seeded bump offering (like Sundown) and I'd stick with a Granite Pass for $619.



The talk about a lack of consistent bumps - or a dedicated bump run - at Crotched is what keeps me from going there.  



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Madroch (Aug 1, 2014)

Perfect solution.... Bumping nor'easter hurt the intermediate offerings- and temptor pitch was very inconsistent and had the ungroomable flat ice patch of death when bumped... Well done. Just when I thought I was out... They suck me back in....


----------



## Madroch (Aug 1, 2014)

Will the beloved horn reopen-as a ladies tee- lol-  or too dangerous with cross traffic?


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 1, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> Will it get good sun in the spring?



same as gunny


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 1, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Perfect solution.... Bumping nor'easter hurt the intermediate offerings- and temptor pitch was very inconsistent and had the ungroomable flat ice patch of death when bumped... Well done. Just when I thought I was out... They suck me back in....



smooch


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 1, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Will the beloved horn reopen-as a ladies tee- lol-  or too dangerous with cross traffic?



the cross traffic situation would be a nightmare... the pines are growing in nicely on the horn...


----------



## dlague (Aug 1, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> 90 minutes door to door for me to get to Ragged.  5-10 minutes longer if I get caught behind someone slow on the back roads.  Sunapee and Loon are both slightly further from home, but also MUCH more expensive and crowded.
> 
> Gunstock is a 70 minute drive, Crotched and Pats are 80 minutes.
> 
> ...



Cannon must be about 90 minutes right?  They have their NH Resident pass that is way below your budget.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 1, 2014)

Two hours to Cannon.  I've been tempted to get a pass there as I do enjoy the mountain a lot.  If I were 30 minutes closer, I would probably be all over it.  I just don't want to spend 4 hours in the car every time I want to go skiing.


----------



## WWF-VT (Aug 1, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Even though I'm not a Sundown skier, reading this news makes me feel as though the world is a slightly better place today.



+1  Always good to see new trails cut for challenging terrain and moguls rather than adding a groomed boulevard


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 6, 2014)

Somewhere Snowlover is doing backflips


----------



## Tin (Aug 6, 2014)

LOL. We should bring him back for summer time.


----------



## ss20 (Aug 13, 2014)

New trail map:


----------



## ss20 (Aug 13, 2014)

When do they let things bump up?  I'm a CT skier but I've never been to Sundown (gasp).  Maybe I'll head up their if this new trail is what they claim it to be.  But only if I can sample the famous Sundown bumps.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 13, 2014)

ss20 said:


> New trail map:
> 
> View attachment 13183



Double diamond? Come on guys


----------



## Tin (Aug 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Double diamond? Come on guys



Well it's probably steeper than anything at Stratton or Bretton Woods lol


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 13, 2014)

ss20 said:


> When do they let things bump up?  I'm a CT skier but I've never been to Sundown (gasp).



Never skied there, but from recollection of trip reports here, Sundown has offered seeded bumps as early as opening day some seasons; if not very shortly after opening.  Moguls are clearly a priority for them.


----------



## Madroch (Aug 13, 2014)

They can't rely on "letting" things bump up- they seed... And are generally committed to doing so quite early in the season... But I believe weather and competing demands for groomed terrain has delayed plans in the past.  Hopefully this will alleviate that problem


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 13, 2014)

Tin said:


> LOL. We should bring him back for summer time.



lol. I didn't like snowlover killing threads, but in hind site he has an uncanny ability to create like 20+ page threads.


----------



## Chris Sullivan (Aug 14, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Double diamond? Come on guys



 Ski trail degree of difficultydesignation is assigned by degree of difficulty from the top of a particularlift. Meaning there is no correlation between trails at other ski areas or eventrails at the same area accessed by other lifts. This trail is intended to bebumped up most of the time and is far more challenging than any of the otherBlack Diamonds accessed from these lifts. Hence Double Diamond is the properdesignation.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 14, 2014)

Chris Sullivan said:


> Ski trail degree of difficultydesignation is assigned by degree of difficulty from the top of a particularlift. Meaning there is no correlation between trails at other ski areas or eventrails at the same area accessed by other lifts. This trail is intended to bebumped up most of the time and is far more challenging than any of the otherBlack Diamonds accessed from these lifts. Hence Double Diamond is the properdesignation.



There is no standard system. If that were true, trails like Face Chutes at Jay and Tramline at Cannon would both have a double diamond designation since they are much more challenging than any other trail on the mountain. 

Also, if that trail is by far more challenging than anything else on the mountain than that's pretty disappointing!


----------



## Chris Sullivan (Aug 14, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> There is no standard system. If that were true, trails like Face Chutes at Jay and Tramline at Cannon would both have a double diamond designation since they are much more challenging than any other trail on the mountain.
> 
> Also, if that trail is by far more challenging than anything else on the mountain than that's pretty disappointing!



 I think we arelooking at this from completely different perspectives. Perhaps you see it as ahype/marketing thing. Whereas I see it from the prospective of someone who hashad to sit in a room full of lawyers to explain and defend our signage policy. 
 I don’t think any responsibleski area would decide on a trail designation without consulting with theirlegal team and insurance company.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 14, 2014)

Chris Sullivan said:


> I think we arelooking at this from completely different perspectives. Perhaps you see it as ahype/marketing thing. Whereas I see it from the prospective of someone who hashad to sit in a room full of lawyers to explain and defend our signage policy.
> I don’t think any responsibleski area would decide on a trail designation without consulting with theirlegal team and insurance company.



Well I would gather each insurance company/state is different but that just seems silly. My point in mentioning those mountains is that both mountain only have single diamond designations even though they have diamonds that are substantially more challenging than the rest of the advanced trails at the mountain.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 14, 2014)

Places that overhype their trail ratings are doing a disservice to their skiers and riders.  I'm sure that more than one person has gotten in over their head elsewhere because they thought they knew what double blacks were supposed to be...  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dlague (Aug 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Places that overhype their trail ratings are doing a disservice to their skiers and riders.  I'm sure that more than one person has gotten in over their head elsewhere because they thought they knew what double blacks were supposed to be...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I agree totally!  Pats Peak, for example, labels Tornado, FIS  and a few others as Double Black and one of my nephews who is a frequent skier there was skiing at Killington and thought he could handle Outerlimits.  He found out the hard way that they are not the same.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Places that overhype their trail ratings are doing a disservice to their skiers and riders.  I'm sure that more than one person has gotten in over their head elsewhere because they thought they knew what double blacks were supposed to be...



Or worse - they are drawn to the double black for bragging rights...  Nothing is quite so irritating as having to stand at the top of a zipper line and wait for a low intermediate to tumble down one bump at a time so they can claim to have skied the toughest trail on the mountain!


----------



## Tin (Aug 14, 2014)

So Paradise, The Face Chutes, and DJs are easier than Jericho at Jiminy?


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 14, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Or worse - they are drawn to the double black for bragging rights...  Nothing is quite so irritating as having to stand at the top of a zipper line and wait for a low intermediate to tumble down one bump at a time so they can claim to have skied the toughest trail on the mountain!



I probably shouldn't complain toooooo much because I do bring my little guy in the bumps (his choice, btw), but I do try to teach him to give others the right-of-way.  What frustrates me is when someone skis in front of me (especially snowplowers) when I have been waiting for someone else to get out of the way...!  Please just let me go...  I won't take long... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> I probably shouldn't complain toooooo much because I do bring my little guy in the bumps (his choice, btw), but I do try to teach him to give others the right-of-way.  What frustrates me is when someone skis in front of me (especially snowplowers) when I have been waiting for someone else to get out of the way...!  Please just let me go...  I won't take long...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You know what frustrates me? Standing at the bottom of a bump waiting for your skiing partner because they stopped to wait for said snowplower to get out of his way. 


I know a few others can feel my pain.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 14, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> You know what frustrates me? Standing at the bottom of a bump waiting for your skiing partner because they stopped to wait for said snowplower to get out of his way.
> 
> 
> I know a few others can feel my pain.



I was waiting for this... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris Sullivan (Aug 14, 2014)

http://www.snowlink.com/ski/safetyinstructiontips/understandingthetrailsigns.aspx

Hope this helps.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> I probably shouldn't complain toooooo much because I do bring my little guy in the bumps (his choice, btw), but I do try to teach him to give others the right-of-way.  What frustrates me is when someone skis in front of me (especially snowplowers) when I have been waiting for someone else to get out of the way...!  Please just let me go...  I won't take long...



Agreed.  That's pretty much what I had in mind.  I'm fine waiting for someone who got there first.  The problem is the ones who plow in afterwards.  Even if they start out on the other side of the slope, they have an irritating tendency to traverse the entire trail before making a turn.  I imagine they assume anyone standing at the top of a mogul run is just hesitating out of fear rather than waiting for a line to clear.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 14, 2014)

Chris Sullivan said:


> http://www.snowlink.com/ski/safetyinstructiontips/understandingthetrailsigns.aspx
> 
> Hope this helps.



I think the double black designation is fine, precisely for the reasons some posters are arguing against it.  While I suppose it's possible that someone who skied a double black at Sundown might think it qualifies them to ski a double black at any resort, the much more likely concern is that someone who could handle the bumps at the bottom of Gunbarrel after skiing the groomed portion up top might think they could handle the new trail just as easily if it were only a single black.


----------



## jack97 (Aug 14, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> keep the questions coming    i'll keep checking back throughout the day.



a freshly cut trail just dedicated for bumps......that is wicked awesome!

How many lines do you think you can place and will it have a bail out? 

If the pitch is similar to upper gunny, are you still going to seed bumps on a tamer pitch so that newbies can still hone in their skills? Also, it keeps the snowplowers (both skiers and riders) from making scraped sections on the new trail.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 14, 2014)

jack97 said:


> will it have a bail out?



Yes.  The woods.  Use it with caution, though! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Yes.  The woods.  Use it with caution, though!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



+1


----------



## jack97 (Aug 14, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Yes.  The woods.  Use it with caution, though!



I hope they would have sign at the point of entry that would say something like that.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 14, 2014)

Chris Sullivan said:


> http://www.snowlink.com/ski/safetyinstructiontips/understandingthetrailsigns.aspx
> 
> Hope this helps.



You must have missed the video at the end.

And by the way, if it's not a marketing thing then I'm sure you won't be making commercial and ads about CTs only double diamond!


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 14, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> You must have missed the video at the end.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 14, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> While I suppose it's possible that someone who skied a double black at Sundown might think it qualifies them to ski a double black at any resort



having skied with my own (and others) kids, this is true.  they don't get it that the ratings are relative to the specific mountain.


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 15, 2014)

jack97 said:


> a freshly cut trail just dedicated for bumps......that is wicked awesome!
> 
> How many lines do you think you can place and will it have a bail out?
> 
> If the pitch is similar to upper gunny, are you still going to seed bumps on a tamer pitch so that newbies can still hone in their skills? Also, it keeps the snowplowers (both skiers and riders) from making scraped sections on the new trail.



Jack... the goal with this new trail is to meet our customers expectations with high fives and cheers.... 

Also, we all are dedicated to skiing this trail extremely often for a multitude of really good reasons.  Least of which is because it's gonna be wicked fun.  

In other news!  Snow making and lighting installations are underway.  I'll get some photos up later.


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 15, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> You must have missed the video at the end.
> 
> And by the way, if it's not a marketing thing then I'm sure you won't be making commercial and ads about CTs only double diamond!



how is it possible you are upset at something that hasn't happened yet?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 15, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> how is it possible you are upset at something that hasn't happened yet?









Look's like it's already started to me!


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 15, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> having skied with my own (and others) kids, this is true.  they don't get it that the ratings are relative to the specific mountain.



Yeah, that's what makes it a bit of a tough call.  If it's just a black, kids will thinks it's no harder than any other black at the mountain and could get into serious trouble on what promises to be a narrow, steep, bumped up trail unlike anything else at Sundown.  From the perspective of a resort, I think this weighs more in favor of a double black designation than any consideration about how the double black designation will affect its skiers' behavior at other resorts.  I guess the alternative is to designate it a black but include one of those frightening warning signs like they had at the top of Devil's Fiddle before Killington introduced the double black rating (or do they still have that?  Haven't been in more than 20 years).  As a kid, that sign always made take a left toward Outer Limits when skiing Bear.


----------



## dlague (Aug 15, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Yeah, that's what makes it a bit of a tough call.  If it's just a black, kids will thinks it's no harder than any other black at the mountain and could get into serious trouble on what promises to be a narrow, steep, bumped up trail unlike anything else at Sundown.  From the perspective of a resort, I think this weighs more in favor of a double black designation than any consideration about how the double black designation will affect its skiers' behavior at other resorts.  I guess the alternative is to designate it a black but include one of those frightening warning signs like they had at the top of Devil's Fiddle before Killington introduced the double black rating (or do they still have that?  Haven't been in more than 20 years).  As a kid, that sign always made take a left toward Outer Limits when skiing Bear.



Or they will ski something like Jay Peak or Cannon where they do not use the double black designation and get into trouble thinking that Sundown's trail was harder because it is listed as double black.  Then again if you can ski that one successfully then you more than likely have the tool box to get yourself out of trouble elsewhere.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 15, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Yeah, that's what makes it a bit of a tough call.  If it's just a black, kids will thinks it's no harder than any other black at the mountain and could get into serious trouble on what promises to be a narrow, steep, bumped up trail unlike anything else at Sundown.  From the perspective of a resort, I think this weighs more in favor of a double black designation than any consideration about how the double black designation will affect its skiers' behavior at other resorts.  I guess the alternative is to designate it a black but include one of those frightening warning signs like they had at the top of Devil's Fiddle before Killington introduced the double black rating (or do they still have that?  Haven't been in more than 20 years).  As a kid, that sign always made take a left toward Outer Limits when skiing Bear.



Is it really that much harder than the trails next to it? Just a marker that says ungroomed or moguls should be sufficient. Never been to Sundown but I think it's rather easy to tell what trail that is from the lift.

On a side note, I think it's equally as silly that Smuggs designates Black Hole as a triple diamond.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 15, 2014)

dlague said:


> Or they will ski something like Jay Peak or Cannon where they do not use the double black designation and get into trouble thinking that Sundown's trail was harder because it is listed as double black.  Then again if you can ski that one successfully then you more than likely have the tool box to get yourself out of trouble elsewhere.



Yea I really prefer the single diamond philosophy but I can understand why some mountains would have double. I always loved exploring mountains that only had single diamonds....it was an adventure every time. I will always remember the first time I skied Hairball at Wildcat or took the "wrong" entrance for Fall Line at MRG.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 15, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Is it really that much harder than the trails next to it? Just a marker that says ungroomed or moguls should be sufficient. Never been to Sundown but I think it's rather easy to tell what trail that is from the lift.
> 
> On a side note, I think it's equally as silly that Smuggs designates Black Hole as a triple diamond.



My guess would be that when it's not bumped up, it will be similar to neighboring the neighboring blacks.  My preference would be to reserve the double black rating for trails with mandatory cliff drops and "no-fall" zones, but I don't think we'll ever get that cat back in the box.  I think there is maybe one trail currently at Sundown that would warrant a black rating at a large northern New England Resort and that for only about 1/3 of its length.  If we are going to criticize them for using the double black designator, we might was well criticize them for using the single black label, too.  I think the relative rating system makes most sense even if there were some objective rating system.  When I ski a mountain, I want to know how the trails rate relative to other trails at that mountain, not how they rate to Cannon or Jackson Hole.  That being said, I agree that the triple black rating is absurd.  Except at Mount Bohemia.  There it's just awesome!


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 15, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I guess the alternative is to designate it a black but include one of those frightening warning signs like they had at the top of Devil's Fiddle before Killington introduced the double black rating (or do they still have that?  Haven't been in more than 20 years).  As a kid, that sign always made take a left toward Outer Limits when skiing Bear.


They still have the signs. Not only the signs but some of the entrances are usually roped off allowing only a narrow space to enter the trail.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 15, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> They still have the signs. Not only the signs but some of the entrances are usually roped off allowing only a narrow space to enter the trail.



I'm ashamed to admit that I never skied DF, in no small part because of those signs.  I guess they're doing their job...

Edit: The signs I remember were a little more ominous - as I recall they warned of uncontrollable falls, serious injury and death if you dared to ski DF....


----------



## ss20 (Aug 15, 2014)

This is the most hate I've seen against Sundown...ever.  And its for a trail rating?!  Sheeesh, you guys are harsh!


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2014)

Can we bring back Snowlover and only give him access to this thread?


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 15, 2014)

Tin said:


> Can we bring back Snowlover and only give him access to this thread?


Wasn't his beef with Powder Ridge?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 15, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Wasn't his beef with Powder Ridge?



He is the Connecticut skiing guru


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 15, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Look's like it's already started to me!



haha... dude,  we're excited.  what's your deal?


----------



## WWF-VT (Aug 15, 2014)

ss20 said:


> This is the most hate I've seen against Sundown...ever.  And its for a trail rating?!  Sheeesh, you guys are harsh!



Sundown designating a trail as a double black diamond could inflate the egos of a couple of dozen CT skiers.  When they head north and ski "legitimate" double black diamond trails they might find themselves on a trail that is above their ability resulting in many tragic deaths or even worse frustrating zipper line mogul skiers behind them.   My guess is that once you have mastered Satan's Stairway then Ripcord at Mt Snow will be the only challenge left for you as a Northeastern skier.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 15, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Look's like it's already started to me!


That looks scary.

Not.


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 15, 2014)

Tin said:


> Can we bring back Snowlover and only give him access to this thread?



he wouldn't be happy.. he's rather have a 20% discount than a dedicated bump trail


----------



## dlague (Aug 15, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Look's like it's already started to me!



Doesn't look that long.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 15, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> haha... dude,  we're excited.  what's your deal?



It's cool that you guys cut a new trail I'm just calling BS on the rating and the reasoning behind it. And from the looks of it other people share my opinion.


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> Sundown designating a trail as a double black diamond could inflate the egos of a couple of dozen CT skiers.  When they head north and ski "legitimate" double black diamond trails they might find themselves on a trail that is above their ability resulting in many tragic deaths or even worse frustrating zipper line mogul skiers behind them.   My guess is that once you have mastered Satan's Stairway then Ripcord at Mt Snow will be the only challenge left for you as a Northeastern skier.



Post of the day!


----------



## ss20 (Aug 15, 2014)

Can you tell its summer at AZ!  Look at what 4 months of skiing withdrawal has done to these people!


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 15, 2014)

ss20 said:


> Can you tell its summer at AZ!  Look at what 4 months of skiing withdrawal has done to these people!


It's been less than 3 months for me. Wait till next month.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 15, 2014)

Since "Satan's Stairway" is a double-black, can we assume it looks something like this? 

I'm happy to see that Sundown is adding a new bump run, I just wish you guys (along with 95% of the other ski areas out there) would keep it real.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 15, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> View attachment 13194
> Since "Satan's Stairway" is a double-black, can we assume it looks something like this?
> 
> I'm happy to see that Sundown is adding a new bump run, I just wish you guys (along with 95% of the other ski areas out there) would keep it real.
> ...



It's impossible to take a picture that does that middle section justice


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 16, 2014)

Ski Sundown, USA


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 16, 2014)

The drop in.

This is going to be such an awesome trail.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powhunter (Aug 16, 2014)

Don't give a flying F if it's designated as a black or double black. It's gonna be fun as shit having that trail at our local mountain. You haters should come ski it when it's bumped up before formulating opinions


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

I'm not usually a fan of Steamboat but that's pretty funny


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I'm not usually a fan of Steamboat but that's pretty funny


I'm so misunderstood.


----------



## Greg (Aug 16, 2014)

Anyone that takes this much issue with how a little ski area in CT rates their trails is probably one of the biggest posers out there. Congratulations.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

Greg said:


> Anyone that takes this much issue with how a little ski area in CT rates their trails is probably one of the biggest posers out there. Congratulations.



Must be something in the name....nice passive aggressive attack


----------



## Edd (Aug 16, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm so misunderstood.



All the great ones are.


----------



## marcski (Aug 16, 2014)

Greg said:


> Anyone that takes this much issue with how a little ski area in CT rates their trails is probably one of the biggest posers out there. Congratulations.





MadMadWorld said:


> Must be something in the name....nice passive aggressive attack



There really isn't anything passive aggressive about his response. He was quite direct.


----------



## Madroch (Aug 16, 2014)

Greg said:


> Anyone that takes this much issue with how a little ski area in CT rates their trails is probably one of the biggest posers out there. Congratulations.



Ditto...  Get a hobby folks....


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

Here we go....Sundown nut huggers on the attack


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 16, 2014)

Hi there Greg. Welcome to the forums. You should post an introduction :smash:


----------



## powhunter (Aug 16, 2014)

Nut huggers?? Not quite!!

C.L.l.T.S


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

This is disappointing. I thought I was more liked. Maybe I'll just turn heel on everyone


----------



## Edd (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> This is disappointing. I thought I was more liked. Maybe I'll just turn heel on everyone



You called out Ski Sundown on Alpine Zone. Be thankful you're still alive.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

Edd said:


> You called out Ski Sundown on Alpine Zone. Be thankful you're still alive.



Sad that some people (Greg) take a criticism of a mountain and turn it into a personal attack. Some people on this board need to get over the fact that not everyone is going to kiss Sundown's ass


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

Guys....  For the record, Sundown sounds like it's a cool little mountain.   Any hill that cuts a dedicated bump run is ok in my book.  However, the double-diamond designation is nearly universally abused.  Pats Peak, where I do much of my skiing, is as big offender of this as anyplace.  However, if anyone wants to be critical of how they (Pats) rate their trails, I am not going to wave any pom-poms in their defense.  It is my belief that the double diamond designation should be reserved for legit terrain like Goat and the Madonna liftline and such.  Sorry to rain on your stoke thread...!  Hopefully it's a great bump run and you guys enjoy it this year.  

- A Poser 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> The drop in.
> 
> This is going to be such an awesome trail.



Sorry, but this is funny stuff.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 16, 2014)

What's the big deal the double back designation? Like it says on every trail map, those rating refer to only that particular resort and should not be compared to other resorts. 

Ski Sundown is simply saying it's their most difficult trail.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 16, 2014)

Saying it's not a DD and the trail has never been skied!! Rock On Haters!!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Saying it's not a DD and the trail has never been skied!! Rock On Haters!!



Were you able to type that with a straight face?

Any trail that has night skiing and can be groomed should not be a double diamond.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 16, 2014)

Skiing that at night should elevate it to DDD


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Saying it's not a DD and the trail has never been skied!! Rock On Haters!!



Maybe you sundown guys are holding back some info on us?  Are they planning to create a man-made cliff band across the trail with the snow guns?!  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> What's the big deal the double back designation? Like it says on every trail map, those rating refer to only that particular resort and should not be compared to other resorts.
> 
> Ski Sundown is simply saying it's their most difficult trail.



Hang on here - there are no personal attacks in your question.  Could you please rephrase? 

IMO, trail designations should be more standardized.  Ski areas who hype up the difficulty of their trails are doing a genuine disservice to skiers and riders.  This whole keeping-up-with-the-joneses thing has just gone way too far...






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Maybe you sundown guys are holding back some info on us?  Are they planning to create a man-made cliff band across the trail with the snow guns?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I could live with that. Or a man made cornice


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 16, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Hang on here - there are no personal attacks in your question.  Could you please rephrase?



Who the hell are you to tell me how and what I should post???? :uzi:


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Who the hell are you to tell me how and what I should post???? :uzi:






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ALLSKIING (Aug 16, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> What's the big deal the double back designation? Like it says on every trail map, those rating refer to only that particular resort and should not be compared to other resorts.
> 
> Ski Sundown is simply saying it's their most difficult trail.


 I'm happy to see someone finally gets it! I assumed most on this forum understood this..


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Please add more winky faces I don't read sarcasm well.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

ALLSKIING said:


> I'm happy to see someone finally gets it! I assumed most on this forum understood this..



Man Sundown bashing really brings everyone out lol. Smell the blood in the water?


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 16, 2014)

I heard that the trail is actually rated double black "extreme terrain"


----------



## jack97 (Aug 16, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> IMO, trail designations should be more standardized.  Ski areas who hype up the difficulty of their trails are doing a genuine disservice to skiers and riders.  This whole keeping-up-with-the-joneses thing has just gone way too far...



then the majority of blacks at mad river glen should be DDDD and when it's a snow drought year they should be D^inf.

btw, I would have used DDD but satan's stairway at nite is the standard bearer.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 16, 2014)

this is some priceless shit!  I remember caring about what rating a trail had, when i was in 7th grade.


----------



## Madroch (Aug 16, 2014)

Don't care what it is rated... Happy to have a new improved night lit designated mogul trail 20 mins from my house...the rating system is good and bad...lets you know comparatively how difficult each way down from a lift is... If you understand that it means nothing going to another mtn... U are fine... My kids have known that since they were 6 - If not, the system can be deceiving for the starter jacket wearing weekend warrior...who probably have no business on a double diamond anyway...


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

2knees said:


> this is some priceless shit!  I remember caring about what rating a trail had, when i was in 7th grade.



Oh here's another lemming!


----------



## 2knees (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Oh here's another lemming!



son, i have no issue with you, these asinine arguments have been around az for 10 years.  Does it REALLY bother you or are you more interested in getting people to post stupid shit?


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 16, 2014)

Hey, lemmings are hardcore. They'll huck a cliffs with no qualms whatsoever







I think it's safe to say this thread is officially derailed


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

2knees said:


> son, i have no issue with you, these asinine arguments have been around az for 10 years.  Does it REALLY bother you or are you more interested in getting people to post stupid shit?



I'm not your son tough guy. What annoys me is some folks blind devotion to Sundown. You folks can't accept any criticism without jumping down people's throats.


----------



## jack97 (Aug 16, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Hey, lemmings are hardcore. They'll huck a cliffs with no qualms whatsoever



The trail is gnar! must be DD for sure.


----------



## jack97 (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> What annoys me is some folks blind devotion to Sundown.



IMO, calling out a small local mnt for doing business as business gets done is equally annoying.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

jack97 said:


> IMO, calling out a small local mnt for doing business as business gets done is equally annoying.



And a 100 page argument on climate change is what?


----------



## 2knees (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I'm not your son tough guy. What annoys me is some folks blind devotion to Sundown. You folks can't accept any criticism without jumping down people's throats.



where did i jump down anyone's throat?  and where did i defend or argue against what they rate the trail as?  I'm confused by your anger.  it seems misplaced.  enjoy your saturday, i'm off to take my kids for an evening swim.  it's beautiful outside.


----------



## jack97 (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> And a 100 page argument on climate change is what?



then call me out on that the threads about climate change, climate warming, climate disruption......


----------



## Madroch (Aug 16, 2014)

The more things change the more they stay the same... Free gss...


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

jack97 said:


> then the majority of blacks at mad river glen should be DDDD and when it's a snow drought year they should be D^inf.
> 
> btw, I would have used DDD but satan's stairway at nite is the standard bearer.



I look forward to bringing my kids to MRG someday.  They are going to be in for a rude awakening when they find out that blues at MRG ski like DD's at Pats Peak though.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Please add more winky faces I don't read sarcasm well.



Attacking me, too?  You are on a roll!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 16, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Attacking me, too?  You are on a roll!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You know it comes from a good place!


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 16, 2014)

i fixed it


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 16, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> i fixed it



Funny stuff.  This is the runner-up to steamboat's "drop in" pic!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ALLSKIING (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I'm not your son tough guy. What annoys me is some folks blind devotion to Sundown. You folks can't accept any criticism without jumping down people's throats.


People have blind devotion about all kinds of crazy stuff...Why let it annoy you..Let it go life is short.


----------



## Greg (Aug 16, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Must be something in the name....nice passive aggressive attack





MadMadWorld said:


> Sad that some people (Greg) take a criticism  of a mountain and turn it into a personal attack. Some people on this  board need to get over the fact that not everyone is going to kiss  Sundown's ass



Yeah, so maybe I should dig a little deeper than my little drive-by. Sorry I  couldn't respond right away. I had better things to do on a beautiful  summer Saturday afternoon than argue on a message board. Anyway, taking issue  whether a ski area warrants a black or double black or whatever rating  is pathetic. What's the issue? Are you  offended that a ski area wants to rate a trail a certain way, because  it's not perceived as bad ass as "real" black diamonds? :roll: Or are you  offended that they may use it as a marketing tactic? Newsflash -  you're marketed to every single day, probably not even knowing it most of the time. Get over it.

Here's my perspective. I ski  at Sundown. I like having decent bump runs 25 minutes away. As far as  I'm concerned, they can whore the crap out of their new double diamond. I  hope it sparks some interest in the hill. I hope some new people check out Sundown as a result. I hope it brings in some extra revenue which  they can then put back into other improvements on the hill. See how this  all works? What all the haters don't seem to see is that pound for  pound, Sundown is managed better than most ski areas, at least in terms of offering terrain for all  preferences and abilities despite extremely limited real estate.

Part of me thinks this may be just one big troll which I actually hope is the case cuz that means you're just pathetically bored, and not just pathetic.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I heard that the trail is actually rated double black "extreme terrain"


 Must check in with ski patrol beforehand. Shovel & beeper required.

Trail will need artillery before opening after snowstorms due to avalanche danger.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2014)

Greg said:


> Yeah, so maybe I should dig a little deeper than my little drive-by. Sorry I  couldn't respond right away. I had better things to do on a beautiful  summer Saturday afternoon than argue on a message board. Anyway, taking issue  whether a ski area warrants a black or double black or whatever rating  is pathetic. What's the issue? Are you  offended that a ski area wants to rate a trail a certain way, because  it's not perceived as bad ass as "real" black diamonds? :roll: Or are you  offended that they may use it as a marketing tactic? Newsflash -  you're marketed to every single day, probably not even knowing it most of the time. Get over it.
> 
> Here's my perspective. I ski  at Sundown. I like having decent bump runs 25 minutes away. As far as  I'm concerned, they can whore the crap out of their new double diamond. I  hope it sparks some interest in the hill. I hope some new people check out Sundown as a result. I hope it brings in some extra revenue which  they can then put back into other improvements on the hill. See how this  all works? What all the haters don't seem to see is that pound for  pound, Sundown is managed better than most ski areas, at least in terms of offering terrain for all  preferences and abilities despite extremely limited real estate.
> 
> Part of me thinks this may be just one big troll which I actually hope is the case cuz that means you're just pathetically bored, and not just pathetic.


Go back in your hole.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2014)




----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 17, 2014)

Does it bother people that Liftline at Stowe is a Double Diamond?  Ripcord at Sugarbush?  Escapade or Flume at Killington?  Ripsaw at Sugarloaf?  

Those are all mountains that are well regarded for their expert terrain, yet they all have some real suspect terrain rated as DD.  They also all have trails that are worthy of a DD rating. 

It was mentioned that someone skiing a DD at Sundown, Pat's etc. could get a false sense of security that they can ski a DD at the steeper mountains up north and potentially hurt themselves. 

That maybe so. 

However, couldn't the same thing happen at MRG, where someone skis Slalom Hill and thinks they can also ski Paradise because the two trails are rated the same?  Or Wildcat when someone skis Upper Wildcat with ease and thinks they can then go ski Hairball?  Or Jay Peak when someone skis the Jet and then thinks they can also ski Face Chutes? Or Cannon, when someone skis Zoomer or Skylight and then thinks they can ski Tramline?  Hell there are many people who probably ski Zoomer or Skylight and then find themselves screwed on the Blue Square Vista Way. 

All of those areas that so hardcore they don't even offer a DD rating on their maps might create an even greater risk of someone getting in over their head because they don't distinguish what terrain on their hill is truly far and away more difficult than other terrain with the same rating. 

I guess my point is that if ripping a mountain for overstating the difficulty of their terrain is what gets your jollies off, well, you could rip on any ski area in the east really.  No one has it right.  Not even as it relates to their own terrain.  

I'm with 2knees on this one.  I stopped caring about trail ratings in 7th grade.  Other than to troll, I don't know why trail ratings are even a topic of discussion anymore on skiing message boards.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 17, 2014)

Went there last night and it really really is legit. About as steep as bear trap at Mt Snow. But I would only rate it as 1 1/2 diamonds


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 17, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Went there last night and it really really is legit. About as steep as bear trap at Mt Snow. But I would only rate it as 1 1/2 diamonds



I can respect this qualified defense of this run.  Well put.  I'm not much a Mt. Snow skier, and I haven't skied Bear Trap, but at least you've put the run in some sort of context.  




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WoodCore (Aug 17, 2014)

Satan's Stairway ski off! Bring it! 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Madroch (Aug 17, 2014)

Mandatory GS turns.....


----------



## jack97 (Aug 17, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> i'm with 2knees on this one.  I stopped caring about trail ratings in 7th grade.  Other than to troll, i don't know why trail ratings are even a topic of discussion anymore on skiing message boards.



qft


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Does it bother people that Liftline at Stowe is a Double Diamond?  Ripcord at Sugarbush?  Escapade or Flume at Killington?  Ripsaw at Sugarloaf?
> 
> Those are all mountains that are well regarded for their expert terrain, yet they all have some real suspect terrain rated as DD.  They also all have trails that are worthy of a DD rating.
> 
> ...



Let's not forget Spacewalk at killington, that was a blue in '92 and now is a DD. That trail is so flat it could probably be a green. I realized it served as a transfer trail to the now removed devils fiddle quad, and passed across OL, but it is still rated a DD. 

If people are gonna get hung up on little sundown, I think they should acknowledge that the large resorts do this too.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I think they should acknowledge that the large resorts do this too.



It's already been acknowledged.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

How many people bitching ski Sundown on a regular basis?


----------



## Greg (Aug 17, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Go back in your hole.



My pleasure. You boys have fun with your dick waiving.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 17, 2014)

^^^^ lolz


----------



## Nick (Aug 17, 2014)

Wow o missed all the fun in this thread ! More thoughts to come later


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 17, 2014)




----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2014)

Nick said:


> Wow o missed all the fun in this thread !


At least someone gets it.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 17, 2014)

In addition to being a world class double diamond you will be given a skills test and have to sign a waiver


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2014)

Looking over the top lip on Satan's Stairway.


----------



## jack97 (Aug 17, 2014)

powhunter said:


> In addition to being a world class double diamond you will be given a skills test and have to sign a waiver



Can you bypass the skill test if you won at least 3 ski-offs?


----------



## Nick (Aug 17, 2014)

Can I be the levelheaded one here? 

First things first. Let's face it, Connecticut is not Vermont or New Hampshire and never will be. 

Secondly. A new trail at any resort is always great! Sundown does good for their customers. Sundown is to Connecticut what Wachusett is to MA. I just wish we had some more bumps at Wachusett, but they do good and are fun for a local hill. 

Thirdly. Is the double black diamond warranted? I happen to think, it's probably a pretty aggressive label. This post shared by Chris has a quote that applies: 



> Each resort ranks its own trails based on the difficulty _of that particular area_. At most resorts, you'll find that about 25 percent of the trails are designated green, about 50 percent are blue, and about 25 percent are black. But if a mountain is steep all over, the green-circle trails will be a huge challenge for novices. They are the easiest trails at _that_ resort, but they may be too tough for someone who is learning.



That seems pretty cut and dry to me. I don't think anyone really thinks this dd is equivalent to a dd at Mad River Glen or Jay or Killington or something. I do, however, still agree that of course there is some marketing involved with making it a double, and I also don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that, as long as it truly is the most difficult trail on the map. 

TL;DR - A new trail is good. Sundown's commitment to bump skiing is great. The trail may or may not warrant a double diamond flag, but who cares, really? What is the negative impact to anyone by having it be a double diamond? The answer is absolutely zero.

You guys are all really getting everything up in a bunch over here!


----------



## Nick (Aug 17, 2014)

Greg said:


> My pleasure. You boys have fun with your dick waiving.



Jeez. Welcome back Greg, briefly, :lol: 

PS, love the new signature.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Looking over the top lip on Satan's Stairway.



This hasn't gotten old yet.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

Nick said:


> Can I be the levelheaded one here?
> 
> First things first. Let's face it, Connecticut is not Vermont or New Hampshire and never will be.
> 
> ...



That's some serious diplomacy. Nice work


----------



## Nick (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> That's some serious diplomacy. Nice work



Right??!!


----------



## bvibert (Aug 17, 2014)

gmcunni said:


>



Where can I get one?


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 17, 2014)

bvibert said:


> Where can I get one?



they are given out at the bottom of the trail once you've proven yourself worthy to ski CT's only DD


----------



## jack97 (Aug 17, 2014)

Nick said:


> A new trail at any resort is always great! Sundown does good for their customers. Sundown is to Connecticut what Wachusett is to MA. I just *wish *we had some more bumps at Wachusett, but they do good and are fun for a local hill.



I've been a passholder at wachusetts, their bumps blows when compare Sundown. They don't seed a good formation and they don't commit to early season seeding. And that is the reason why Sundown has a loyal following... ownership is providing terrain to a group that wants it.




Nick said:


> A new trail is good. Sundown's commitment to bump skiing is great. The trail may or may not warrant a double diamond flag, but who cares, really? What is the negative impact to anyone by having it be a double diamond? The answer is absolutely zero.



imo, Sundown like most place is suffering from terrain inflation due to advances in grooming and ski technology. Since they already have some single D, they have no choice but to use DD.


----------



## Madroch (Aug 17, 2014)

Sundown has a loyal following because:  good management who responsibly try to give a wide variety of people what they want while staffing the place with good people-  the instructors my kids had 7 years ago still say hello to me every time I see them- and say hi to my kids- the lifties are friendly and generally very good, as are the ticket checkers- patrol loves to chat on the lift- welcome center, bar keeper- you name it- friendly and responsive- while I whine on occasion about not seeding early enough or blowing deep enough- i do so just to keep them honest and not let all the raves I and others email/Facebook them regularly go to their heads.

To all the asshats griping about trail ratings... Ct is not Vermont, never will be- let sundown market the crap out of a new trail they will bump early and often that is probably steeper than anything else in ct.  Good for business which is good for regulars like me.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Sundown has a loyal following because:  good management who responsibly try to give a wide variety of people what they want while staffing the place with good people-  the instructors my kids had 7 years ago still say hello to me every time I see them- and say hi to my kids- the lifties are friendly and generally very good, as are the ticket checkers- patrol loves to chat on the lift- welcome center, bar keeper- you name it- friendly and responsive- while I whine on occasion about not seeding early enough or blowing deep enough- i do so just to keep them honest and not let all the raves I and others email/Facebook them regularly go to their heads.
> 
> To all the asshats griping about trail ratings... Ct is not Vermont, never will be- let sundown market the crap out of a new trail they will bump early and often that is probably steeper than anything else in ct.  Good for business which is good for regulars like me.



Are you guys all really pissy eyed little babies? No one can criticize my mountain!


----------



## Madroch (Aug 17, 2014)

Having fun relax...


----------



## Madroch (Aug 17, 2014)

Smoking meat products on the beach and have 6 hours or so to kill...


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

If I didn't know any better, I'd say it's summer


----------



## Nick (Aug 17, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Smoking meat products on the beach and have 6 hours or so to kill...



Yum


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> If I didn't know any better, I'd say it's summer



Say something bad about Sundown and you might be told it's winter


----------



## Madroch (Aug 17, 2014)

It's winter somewhere.... Wish we were there....


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 17, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Ct is not Vermont, never will be



Finally...  one of you Sundown guys is talking some sense!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2knees (Aug 17, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Smoking meat products on the beach and have 6 hours or so to kill...




I bet you're smoking someone's meat product.....:razz:


----------



## Madroch (Aug 17, 2014)

2knees said:


> I bet you're smoking someone's meat product.....:razz:



Caught me.... Damnit


----------



## 2knees (Aug 17, 2014)

you coming to colorado with us?  it should be a cake walk after 3 months of the stairway......


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Never been to Sundown but I think it's rather easy to tell what trail that is from the lift.



Seriously...and yet you cant keep them out of your mouth. Just shut the fuck up you sanctimonious sack of shit! I do hope to see you on their slopes sometime, if only to gladly hipcheck you into the nearest and largest tree I can find.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

I wonder what is considered more sacrilegious, badmouthing ski sundown or trying to convince AZers to have MRG allow snowboarding?


----------



## 2knees (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I wonder what is considered more sacrilegious, badmouthing ski sundown or trying to convince AZers to have MRG allow snowboarding?




lol, that is a very good question!  

planb, don't feed the flames.  its just a ski area, this thread is stupid and redundant.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

I heard Nick is moving the AZ summit to ski sundown this season


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

Yeah, BUT....fuck that guy


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

planb420 said:


> Seriously...and yet you cant keep them out of your mouth. Just shut the fuck up you sanctimonious sack of shit! I do hope to see you on their slopes sometime, if only to gladly hipcheck you into the nearest and largest tree I can find.



Haha you couldn't catch up to me if you tried.


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Haha you couldn't catch up to me if you tried.




Come on down then...lets see, you sure spew enough shit on here.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

planb420 said:


> Come on down then...lets see, you sure spew enough shit on here.



Get out of here stoner


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)




----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Get out of here stoner



I will take a cue from your earlier sophomoric comment and say..."Make me."....followed by a fond FUCK YOU mate


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

You are out of your mind


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

Might as well.


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> You are out of your mind



and your welcome


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

So......if you two DID end up at the same hill at the same time......would a ski-off be in order???? :flame:


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> So......if you two DID end up at the same hill at the same time......would a ski-off be in order???? :flame:


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

I think it should be on none other than satan's stairway then


----------



## Edd (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I wonder what is considered more sacrilegious, badmouthing ski sundown or trying to convince AZers to have MRG allow snowboarding?



I can't remember well but I'd be surprised if a significant number of AZers would oppose snowboarding at MRG. It's a completely pointless restriction.


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I think it should be on none other than satan's stairway then



I hear the edges are going to be lined with broken glass and flaming trees....


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

You'll need NFS approval for that.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 17, 2014)

Can't be a ski off cause planb is a boarder


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)




----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Can't be a ski off cause planb is a boarder


Then it shall be an "Awesome off" and clearly that sad sack-o-shit is gonna lose that one.....


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

Maybe it's trouble that's brewing at Sundown?


----------



## powhunter (Aug 17, 2014)

2knees said:


> you coming to colorado with us?  it should be a cake walk after 3 months of the stairway......



Yea but there's no legit DD in CO


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Maybe it's trouble that's brewing at Sundown?



Nahh...its just post burrito gas


----------



## powhunter (Aug 17, 2014)

Skiing the Jane is gonna be like  skiing great northern after our stairway training


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm all for a board off. I haven't snowboarded in a number of years but I'm pretty sure based on your piss poor videos I could still whoop yo ass. Then again I wouldn't give a dime to your gay over priced mountain. Apple eater.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 17, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Skiing the Jane is gonna be like  skiing great northern after our stairway training



Let me know when you're here


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I'm all for a board off. I haven't snowboarded in a number of years but I'm pretty sure based on your piss poor videos I could still whoop yo ass. Then I wouldn't give a dime to your gay over priced mountain. Apple eater.



Then bring your dumpy ass down here....


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

planb420 said:


> Then bring your dumpy ass down here....



Read what I wrote or did you kill all those brain cells?


----------



## planb420 (Aug 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Read what I wrote or did you kill all those brain cells?


Something about your posts just screams "bitch", so I'm sure this challange will go unaccepted.....but if you really do have something rolling around in that sad sack then hopefully you prove me wrong and show. Doubt it...


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 17, 2014)

planb420 said:


> Something about your posts just screams "bitch", so I'm sure this challange will go unaccepted.....but if you really do have something rolling around in that sad sack then hopefully you prove me wrong and show. Doubt it...



Haha whatever you say man. I got nothing to prove to anyone. You are a sad little man. Come to me when you have the balls to try a big boy mountain and I will be more than happy to give you the whooping you so desperately seek. Until then listen to your mommy because it's bed time. Run along little boy


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2014)

Wow !!!!

I ski for fun. Not so sure about you guys. Couldn't give a rats ass who's faster than me, that's not why I ski. Just get it done, stay safe & enjoy whether it be steeps/bumps or a perfectly groomed trail. It's all good. You want to fly by me? Be my guest.

A DD in CT. is a bit ridiculous though. Especially after seeing the picture of the trail. But really who cares. It is fun making fun of it though.


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 18, 2014)

.... please re-read the reasoning behind the DD designation.... there is no... none.. nadda  comparison to ANY other mountain ANYWHERE....  sigh... 

it will be a double diamond because Satan's Stairway will be a tougher run than anything else we currently offer here at the hill

to the few of you that we are discussing this with... please, this winter,  lets take some runs and enjoy a beer.  anywhere.  i can drive a few hours during the week if need be.


----------



## powhunter (Aug 18, 2014)




----------



## Nick (Aug 18, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> .... please re-read the reasoning behind the DD designation.... there is no... none.. nadda  comparison to ANY other mountain ANYWHERE....  sigh...
> 
> it will be a double diamond because Satan's Stairway will be a tougher run than anything else we currently offer here at the hill
> 
> to the few of you that we are discussing this with... please, this winter,  lets take some runs and enjoy a beer.  anywhere.  i can drive a few hours during the week if need be.



^ The fastest way to solve this is a snowstorm


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2014)

absolutely Nick

can't have a board off without snow.


----------



## Grassi21 (Aug 18, 2014)

Glad I signed in for the first time in ages to read this turd of a debate.  Live and let live folks. Although this thread did remind me how funny gmcunni is. 

See ya'll on the staircase in a few months! I will bring the grill for the first tailgate!


----------



## Nick (Aug 18, 2014)

Grassi21 said:


> Glad I signed in for the first time in ages to read this turd of a debate.  Live and let live folks. Although this thread did remind me how funny gmcunni is.
> 
> See ya'll on the staircase in a few months! I will bring the grill for the first tailgate!



It's pretty epic right? The epitome of end-of-summer angst. Freaking out over trail ratings.

Nice olive branch with the tailgate grill!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 18, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> .... please re-read the reasoning behind the DD designation.... there is no... none.. nadda  comparison to ANY other mountain ANYWHERE....  sigh...
> 
> it will be a double diamond because Satan's Stairway will be a tougher run than anything else we currently offer here at the hill
> 
> to the few of you that we are discussing this with... please, this winter,  lets take some runs and enjoy a beer.  anywhere.  i can drive a few hours during the week if need be.



On a side note, meant to ask but did you pass your level II?


----------



## Grassi21 (Aug 18, 2014)

Nick said:


> It's pretty epic right? The epitome of end-of-summer angst. Freaking out over trail ratings.
> 
> Nice olive branch with the tailgate grill!



This is nothing a few beers and burgers can't fix.


----------



## skidmarks (Aug 18, 2014)

*Legit Bumps at Sundown*

Legit Bumps at Sundown! Kudos to Ski Sundown for their new trail.


----------



## Madroch (Aug 18, 2014)

Hope we don't lose too many days on the stairway to Avy control...


----------



## Madroch (Aug 18, 2014)

Mulling the jane trip on the ferry to ocracoke today pat... It's all about balancing ski dollars for us...


----------



## reefer (Aug 18, 2014)

powhunter said:


>




Looks like K's stairway to heaven to me. Glad to see all the CLITS alive and well! 
Great to see that new trail. Should be fun. Unfortunately I may never ski it being same distance as heading to VT. I did head down there once a few years back (when I had a couple comp tickets) on a beautiful spring day when the bumps on Gunny kicked my ass.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 18, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Hope we don't lose too many days on the stairway to Avy control...



Or World Cup events...


----------



## Madroch (Aug 18, 2014)

Crap...
Hadn't thought of the World Cup issues...


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 18, 2014)

With all this SS talk I'm surprised they are not featured for the AZ challenge.


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 18, 2014)

Nick said:


> ^ The fastest way to solve this is a snowstorm



are you kidding?  this is great.  haha.


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 18, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> On a side note, meant to ask but did you pass your level II?




passed all 9 for the skiing portion.  i take the online part this fall, and then the teaching part sometime in the winter... 

i'll let you know where it's being held and when i'm going.  :beer:


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 18, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> passed all 9 for the skiing portion.  i take the online part this fall, and then the teaching part sometime in the winter...
> 
> i'll let you know where it's being held and when i'm going.  :beer:



Good stuff. That's pretty damn impressive. 

Let me know and I'll buy you a beer.


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 18, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Crap...
> Hadn't thought of the World Cup issues...



when does the "tell jarrod how to build a jump" thread start?


----------



## jarrodski (Aug 18, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Good stuff. That's pretty damn impressive.
> 
> Let me know and I'll buy you a beer.



looking forward to it sir.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 19, 2014)

I've been very impressed with how Sundown has been run.  IMHO, they are an example of how a small ski area should be run.  Other ski areas in Connecticut could learn a lot from Sundown.

As much as I admire Sundown, I can't understand why people feel entitled to silence its critics.  The last time I checked, an internet forum is a place to discuss different ideas and opinions.  As long as an opinion has at least the slightest basis in fact, it is fair game.  This forum would quickly descend into a sinkhole if fans of every mountain were on a mission to silence any criticism whatsoever of that mountain.  I doubt that anyone here is so fragile that they cannot read through posts that they do not agree with.  So why act like you are?  If you disagree you are free to join the debate - but accept the fact that debate is what happens in a forum like this.

As far as the difficulty rating is concerned, one thing has not been brought up is this: A trail rating system that varies from mountain to mountain is NOT CONSUMER FRIENDLY.  With only a couple of exceptions, the members of this forum are consumers.  As a consumer, it is to my benefit to know what a black diamond means no matter where I am thinking about skiing.  A uniform rating system allows me to compare mountain to mountain and make an informed choice as to where I am going to spend my money.  

I have always felt that there should be an independent body that establishes the difficulty ratings of trails using objective standards.  IMHO, it's more important for a skier to know how hard a trail is to ski than whether or not it is harder or easier than another trail on the mountain.  In any event, if a uniform rating system was employed, you would STILL BE ABLE TO COMPARE TRAILS ON THE SAME MOUNTAIN.  For that reason, I can't see why there is any advantage whatsoever to a non-uniform system.

To reduce the range within a difficulty rating, I would have no problem if we embraced the European system.  The European system uses four primary designations rather than our three.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 19, 2014)

Good points Vt. 

Sundown does a good job of having a little something for everyone, regardless of what kind of skier/rider you are, which is impressive considering how small they are.

It seems like there are a few areas here that are above reproach. Sundown, MRG, and magic fit this category. But on the flip side, if k-mart isn't the first to open, hell has frozen over


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> I've been very impressed with how Sundown has been run.  IMHO, they are an example of how a small ski area should be run.  Other ski areas in Connecticut could learn a lot from Sundown.
> 
> As much as I admire Sundown, I can't understand why people feel entitled to silence its critics.  The last time I checked, an internet forum is a place to discuss different ideas and opinions.  As long as an opinion has at least the slightest basis in fact, it is fair game.  This forum would quickly descend into a sinkhole if fans of every mountain were on a mission to silence any criticism whatsoever of that mountain.  I doubt that anyone here is so fragile that they cannot read through posts that they do not agree with.  So why act like you are?  If you disagree you are free to join the debate - but accept the fact that debate is what happens in a forum like this.
> 
> ...



Well said.....great write up!


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 19, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> As far as the difficulty rating is concerned, one thing has not been brought up is this: A trail rating system that varies from mountain to mountain is NOT CONSUMER FRIENDLY.  With only a couple of exceptions, the members of this forum are consumers.  As a consumer, it is to my benefit to know what a black diamond means no matter where I am thinking about skiing.  A uniform rating system allows me to compare mountain to mountain and make an informed choice as to where I am going to spend my money.



Except that trail ratings are not primarily a marketing device (as Sundown's critics in this thread will be sure to remind you).  Given the extreme differences in terrain between central Connecticut, Northern Vermont and out West, any workable standardized rating system would have to include a lot more than three or four designations (Oh noes!  Triple Diamonds!!).  If not, a place like Sundown would presumably be obliged to label all its trails green or blue and I cannot imagine a less skier-friendly result than that.  The fact is that most skiers posting on this board have (as others have mentioned) stopped caring about trail designations in grade school.  This is because the primary purposes of a trail rating system is to warn beginner and intermediate skiers not to get in over their heads.  And the mountain-relative rating system, whatever its flaws, is far better suited to that than some industry-wide standard that requires Sundown to rate Gunbarrel relative to MRG's Paradise rather than it's own Tom's Treat.


----------



## Nick (Aug 19, 2014)

I agree with VTKilarney mostly. 

What if we tried to make trail ratings more defined. Must meet all qualifications or moves up to the next difficulty. 

Example (slope % is pulled out of thin air) 

Green: Slope between 5 - 10%. At least 30' wide. Regularly groomed. 
Blue: Slope between 5 - 15%. May have natural (ungroomed) terrain or moguls. At least 10' wide. 
Diamond: Slope between 15 - 25%. 
Double diamond: Slopes in excess of 25%.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

Nick said:


> I agree with VTKilarney mostly.
> 
> What if we tried to make trail ratings more defined. Must meet all qualifications or moves up to the next difficulty.
> 
> ...



How do you factor in naturals features like ledges and such?


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> How do you factor in naturals features like ledges and such?



I think it depends on whether or not it can be marked properly and if it's mandatory or not. For example, the cliff at the very bottom of MRG under the single chair is almost unavoidable, the only way around it is rocky. So DD easily


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 19, 2014)

Nick said:


> I agree with VTKilarney mostly.
> 
> What if we tried to make trail ratings more defined. Must meet all qualifications or moves up to the next difficulty.
> 
> ...



I think you mean degrees. 25% is only 14 degrees


----------



## Tin (Aug 19, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I think you mean degrees. 25% is only 14 degrees



This must be the formula Stratton and Bretton Woods uses then.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Except that trail ratings are not primarily a marketing device (as Sundown's critics in this thread will be sure to remind you).  Given the extreme differences in terrain between central Connecticut, Northern Vermont and out West, any workable standardized rating system would have to include a lot more than three or four designations (Oh noes!  Triple Diamonds!!).  If not, a place like Sundown would presumably be obliged to label all its trails green or blue and I cannot imagine a less skier-friendly result than that.  The fact is that most skiers posting on this board have (as others have mentioned) stopped caring about trail designations in grade school.  This is because the primary purposes of a trail rating system is to warn beginner and intermediate skiers not to get in over their heads.  And the mountain-relative rating system, whatever its flaws, is far better suited to that than some industry-wide standard that requires Sundown to rate Gunbarrel relative to MRG's Paradise rather than it's own Tom's Treat.



I will stay away from the marketing aspect of this (what is my bounty set at?). Is this trail more steeper then other stuff on the mountain? A simple ungroomed sign at the top works for most mountains. 

Also, maybe most of us don't care but a lot of us have children that do. Trying to keep them safe is hard and I think some type of baseline would be helpful. 

I know their are flaws in all of these methods it's my .02


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I think it depends on whether or not it can be marked properly and if it's mandatory or not. For example, the cliff at the very bottom of MRG under the single chair is almost unavoidable, the only way around it is rocky. So DD easily



Well that's not exactly considered a trail. I don't know of any trail in the east that always has an unavoidable drop. I wish there were though!


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Well that's not exactly considered a trail. I don't know of any trail in the east that always has an unavoidable drop. I wish there were though!



Not a named trail....but you can ski it when it's open so it's......something.

I thought pico had a mandatory cliff under one of the lifts as well.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Not a named trail....but you can ski it when it's open so it's......something.
> 
> I thought pico had a mandatory cliff under one of the lifts as well.



Yea patrol does maintain the rope in front of it and will drop it if the conditions are good enough so your right. Yea the ledges under Little Pico are mandatory but is not a trail and they don't have a boundary to boundary policy like MRG.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Also, maybe most of us don't care but a lot of us have children that do. Trying to keep them safe is hard and I think some type of baseline would be helpful.



Seems like the biggest offenders in this regard are not places like Sundown, who are at least trying to give their consumers a sense of the comparative difficulty of their offerings, but places like MRG, whose trail ratings barely begin to do justice to how difficult the terrain is (based on the photos and comments in this thread).

Ah well.  I'm really just glad that Satan decided to locate his staircase within day-trip distance to me!


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 19, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> If not, a place like Sundown would presumably be obliged to label all its trails green or blue and I cannot imagine a less skier-friendly result than that.


Why?  If that is what the trail is, *then that is what it is*.  There is no way around that reality.  How is it not skier friendly for a skier to know how hard a trail actually is using objective standards?

Your point misses one crucial fact.  Sundown would be free to rank their trails in terms of difficulty - they just couldn't fudge the actual difficulty of any one trail.  Many ski areas, for example, have signs indicating the easiest way down.  I see no reason why Sundown couldn't do such a thing.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Why?  If that is what the trail is, *then that is what it is*.  There is no way around that reality.  Sundown would be free to publish a ranking using their own system, but if they wanted to use the traditional markings, they would have to accept the standardization.  Many ski areas, for example, have signs indicating the easiest way down.  I see no reason why Sundown couldn't do such a thing.



But what about East vs. West? There are plenty of double diamonds out west that dwarf what we would consider a double diamond.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> But what about East vs. West? There are plenty of double diamonds out west that dwarf what we would consider a double diamond.


That is why there is a need for standardization.  And it also may be why we need more than 3 basic levels.  It may be a better idea to base the difficulty levels on the skills needed to complete the trail.  But I'm not debating HOW the standards she be set - I am merely saying that standardization in and of itself benefits the consumer.


----------



## Mapnut (Aug 19, 2014)

Keep in mind that one problem with standardization is the variability in conditions, especially in the East. For instance if Gunbarrel had a rain followed by a hard freeze, and was all frozen granular with patches of clear ice, it would definitely be an expert trail. Moguls vs. groomed is another variable. Even out west some trails would change by a whole class depending on how deep the snow is. I think understanding that the ratings are relative is still the best idea.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 19, 2014)

Mapnut said:


> Keep in mind that one problem with standardization is the variability in conditions, especially in the East. For instance if Gunbarrel had a rain followed by a hard freeze, and was all frozen granular with patches of clear ice, it would definitely be an expert trail. Moguls vs. groomed is another variable. Even out west some trails would change by a whole class depending on how deep the snow is. I think understanding that the ratings are relative is still the best idea.


How is this an argument against standardization?  I don't see ski areas redesignating  trails and printing new trail maps after ice storms now.  Your concern is with the system in general, and has nothing to do with standardization.  If there is some uncertainty in the model I don't see how adding more uncertainty improves things.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 19, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Why?  If that is what the trail is, *then that is what it is*.  There is no way around that reality.  How is it not skier friendly for a skier to know how hard a trail actually is using objective standards?



Because the objective standards you are calling for cannot reasonably be shoe-horned into a three or four symbol rating system.  It's been a while since most of us were beginners, but I can assure that there is a big difference from the perspective of a beginner between a green at Sundown and a black at Sundown and you wouldn't be doing those beginners any favors by relabeling Sundown's blacks as greens by comparison to Corbett's Couloir.  Any standardized rating system that applied equally to JH and MRG and Sundown and Powder Ridge is going to have far too many grades of distinction to be reasonably suited to the principal purpose of a trail rating system to begin with, i.e., to guide skiers of various skill levels to suitable terrain on the mountain where they are then skiing.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 19, 2014)

You keep ignoring the fact that Sundown would be free to rank the difficulty of their trails.  They just couldn't fudge an objective difficulty rating - and that is all.  I'm finding it hard to believe that Ski Sundown is such a mystery.  Isn't it pretty easy to gauge terrain by just looking at the trails?  It's not like there are lots of hidden cliffs or other such obstacles.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 19, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> You keep ignoring the fact that Sundown would be free to rank the difficulty of their trails.  They just couldn't fudge an objective difficulty rating - and that is all.  I'm finding it hard to believe that Ski Sundown is such a mystery.  Isn't it pretty easy to gauge terrain by just looking at the trails?  It's not like there are lots of hidden cliffs or other such obstacles.



I am simply pointing out that an objective rating system of the type you are proposing would be (a) unhelpfully simplistic if it were limited to the green, blue, black and double black designations currently in use or (b) unhelpfully complex if it were supplemented by adding double greens, circle in squares, squares in diamonds, diamonds in circles and whatever other permutations and additions you would need to enable a resort like Sundown to meaningfully distinguish between its terrain without (God forbid!) implying that it had any offerings comparable to MRG or JH.  The reason that resorts use mountain-relative ratings is precisely because an objective standard is difficult to define, even harder to implement, and largely irrelevant to the purpose of rating trails anyway.


----------



## dlague (Aug 19, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I am simply pointing out that an objective rating system of the type you are proposing would be (a) unhelpfully simplistic if it were limited to the green, blue, black and double black designations currently in use or (b) unhelpfully complex if it were supplemented by adding double greens, circle in squares, squares in diamonds, diamonds in circles and whatever other permutations and additions you would need to enable a resort like Sundown to meaningfully distinguish between its terrain without (God forbid!) implying that it had any offerings comparable to MRG or JH.  The reason that resorts use mountain-relative ratings is precisely because an objective standard is difficult to define, even harder to implement, and largely irrelevant to the purpose of rating trails anyway.




Not to mention, many smaller mountains technically would be all green or all green and blue with no black trails.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 19, 2014)

dlague said:


> Not to mention, many smaller mountains technically would be all green or all green and blue with no black trails.



Exactly.  A rating system needs to be simple enough to be used and understood by the average skier on the mountain, but discriminating enough to keep them out of trouble.  The mountain-relative green, blue and black systems we have now works just fine in both those regards.  With an objective system, we'd either get the all green mountains you describe or we'd have some medieval system of classification that only Copernicus could figure out.


----------



## VTKilarney (Aug 19, 2014)

Smaller hills in Europe don't seem to need a huge box of crayons.


----------



## powbmps (Aug 19, 2014)

When you C.L.I.T.'s want a real challenge, come on up to the mighty Sunapee, and give one our* six *double blacks a try.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 19, 2014)

dlague said:


> Not to mention, many smaller mountains technically would be all green or all green and blue with no black trails.



Here's the thing:  there isn't a damn thing wrong with this.  Most skiers are beginners and intermediates anyway.  But thanks to the current watered-down rating system, they just don't know it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

powbmps said:


> When you C.L.I.T.'s want a real challenge, come on up to the mighty Sunapee, and give one our* six *double blacks a try.



Oh snap!


----------



## dlague (Aug 19, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Here's the thing:  there isn't a damn thing wrong with this.  Most skiers are beginners and intermediates anyway.  But thanks to the current watered-down rating system, they just don't know it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




True, I totally agree!  i find myself complaining about trail ratings and comparing what a black rated trail might be else where.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Here's the thing:  there isn't a damn thing wrong with this.  Most skiers are beginners and intermediates anyway.  But thanks to the current watered-down rating system, they just don't know it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sooooo your saying not everyone should get a trophy?! Shit.


----------



## dlague (Aug 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Sooooo your saying not everyone should get a trophy?! Shit.



Well one of my kids got a trophy that had "Outstanding Player" and was psyched until he found out - so did everyone else on the team!  Damn PC shit!  So now day everyone gets a trophy and they get to ski black trails!


----------



## 2knees (Aug 19, 2014)

powbmps said:


> When you C.L.I.T.'s want a real challenge, come on up to the mighty Sunapee, and give one our* six *double blacks a try.




I gotta get back there this winter.  The goose is a blast.  

The lightning bolt pants have been officially retired btw.  they smell like shit!!!


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 19, 2014)

powbmps said:


> When you C.L.I.T.'s want a real challenge, come on up to the mighty Sunapee, and give one our* six *double blacks a try.



Or step up your game on one of Pats black diamond glades.  Just don't stop in the middle of one, or you might forget which way is downhill!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powbmps (Aug 19, 2014)

2knees said:


> I gotta get back there this winter.  The goose is a blast.
> 
> The lightning bolt pants have been officially retired btw.  they smell like shit!!!



That's a damn shame.  You should pull them out of retirement for Mary Jane.  I'm sure they have spent some time there in the past.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

Greg said:


> Anyone that takes this much issue with how a little ski area in CT rates their trails is probably one of the biggest posers out there. Congratulations.





Greg said:


> Yeah, so maybe I should dig a little deeper than my little drive-by. Sorry I  couldn't respond right away. I had better things to do on a beautiful  summer Saturday afternoon than argue on a message board. Anyway, taking issue  whether a ski area warrants a black or double black or whatever rating  is pathetic. What's the issue? Are you  offended that a ski area wants to rate a trail a certain way, because  it's not perceived as bad ass as "real" black diamonds? :roll: Or are you  offended that they may use it as a marketing tactic? Newsflash -  you're marketed to every single day, probably not even knowing it most of the time. Get over it.
> 
> Here's my perspective. I ski  at Sundown. I like having decent bump runs 25 minutes away. As far as  I'm concerned, they can whore the crap out of their new double diamond. I  hope it sparks some interest in the hill. I hope some new people check out Sundown as a result. I hope it brings in some extra revenue which  they can then put back into other improvements on the hill. See how this  all works? What all the haters don't seem to see is that pound for  pound, Sundown is managed better than most ski areas, at least in terms of offering terrain for all  preferences and abilities despite extremely limited real estate.
> 
> Part of me thinks this may be just one big troll which I actually hope is the case cuz that means you're just pathetically bored, and not just pathetic.



http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/topic/2027-ski-denton-steepest-in-the-east/?p=33532#entry33532

Wait what was that....pathetic? Poser? what does that shit make you? That's pretty sad.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 19, 2014)

Lol. Not with you though!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

2knees said:


> Lol. Not with you though!



Huh? I'm just calling a certain someone out for his shenanigans. I'm over the Sundown crap lol.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 19, 2014)

You spent the time to dig up a post from 10 years ago on another forum?    :razz:  yeah,  that's normal!

bust Greg's balls till the end of time but don't look like an obsessed freak doing it.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

2knees said:


> You spent the time to dig up a post from 10 years ago on another forum?    :razz:  yeah,  that's normal!
> 
> bust Greg's balls till the end of time but don't look like an obsessed freak doing it.



Funny you say that since you were the one that bumped the thread I found it in 2 days ago! So who looks silly now?


----------



## 2knees (Aug 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Funny you say that since you were the one that bumped the thread I found it in 2 days ago! So who looks silly now?



Even funnier. That was a thread from alpinezone that I actually was around for.  I remembered it.  See how that works?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 19, 2014)

2knees said:


> Even funnier. That was a thread from alpinezone that I actually was around for.  I remembered it.  See how that works?



I'm so proud of you. Someone is a lying sack of shit and I called him out. You follow?


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 19, 2014)

2knees said:


> You spent the time to dig up a post from 10 years ago on another forum?    :razz:  yeah,  that's normal!
> 
> bust Greg's balls till the end of time but don't look like an obsessed freak doing it.



Funny stuff.  You were the one who bumped the Denton thread.  I read it to see what all the fuss was about.  I found it ironic that Greg was flaming them for their marketing claims, and that he was getting defensive when the spotlight shone on SS.  

Hopefully all of our "bashing" gives SS a little extra attention, and they benefit from it.  I wish my local hill was as committed to bump skiing.  You guys have a good thing going.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ss20 (Aug 19, 2014)

Damn.  We're gonna need a whole day for MadMad's ski/board off's.  Can we rent Sundown?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

ss20 said:


> Damn.  We're gonna need a whole day for MadMad's ski/board off's.  Can we rent Sundown?



There is a long waiting list


----------



## Boston Bulldog (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> When you C.L.I.T.'s want a real challenge, come on up to the mighty Sunapee, and give one our* six *double blacks a try.



I think that Goosebumps is a bigger abomination to the DD ranking than Satan's Stairway. At least SS has bumps...


----------



## powhunter (Aug 20, 2014)

Isn't flying goose Sunapees main bump run?  Longer and steeper than Satans. That's for sure


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 20, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Isn't flying goose Sunapees main bump run?  Longer and steeper than Satans. That's for sure



It isn't steep at all, and it isn't bumped up for it's entire length or width.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powhunter (Aug 20, 2014)

Satans deserves the DD ranking because it won't get a lot of sun so it's gonna be silver bullets and irregular shaped moguls.  The only time it will ski good is with a dump or in the spring


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

powhunter said:


> Satans deserves the DD ranking because it won't get a lot of sun so it's gonna be silver bullets and irregular shaped moguls.  The only time it will ski good is with a dump or in the spring



If someone had just said that in the first place....


----------



## powbmps (Aug 20, 2014)

Blasphemer!!!!

The Goose is mogul perfection.  Seeded bumps on the flats? Width only matters if you're skiing sideways.

Get back on track with your Sundown bashing.



Savemeasammy said:


> It isn't steep at all, and it isn't bumped up for it's entire length or width.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> Blasphemer!!!!
> 
> The Goose is mogul perfection.  Seeded bumps on the flats? Width only matters if you're skiing sideways.
> 
> Get back on track with your Sundown bashing.



Lmao


----------



## dlague (Aug 20, 2014)

Speaking of Double Blacks at ski areas south of VT and NH Wintergreen in VA has one that will make you head spin!  Wintergreen has a DD trail called lower cliffhanger!  Seriously, that's is a joke!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

dlague said:


> Speaking of Double Blacks at ski areas south of VT and NH Wintergreen in VA has one that will make you head spin!  Wintergreen has a DD trail called lower cliffhanger!  Seriously, that's is a joke!



You sure that's not Gunbarrel


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 20, 2014)

Just noticed there is an SS group. Perfect!

http://forums.alpinezone.com/group.php?groupid=1


----------



## powbmps (Aug 20, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Just noticed there is an SS group. Perfect!
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/group.php?groupid=1



You guys are trying a little _too_ hard.  Not as bad as the 10 year old thread, but no one has posted there in almost 5 years.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> You guys are trying a little _too_ hard.  Not as bad as the 10 year old thread, but no one has posted there in almost 5 years.



That was actually a complete coincidence. I meant to click albums but clicked groups instead and saw it. Honestly, I want to try SS now. If it gets this much attention, they must be doing something right.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> You guys are trying a little _too_ hard.  Not as bad as the 10 year old thread, but no one has posted there in almost 5 years.



Suggestions?


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 20, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Just noticed there is an SS group. Perfect!
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/group.php?groupid=1



Invitation only!


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 20, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Invitation only!


----------



## powbmps (Aug 20, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Suggestions?



Shun them and join my Flying Goose group.  Are you with me?  Let's do this!


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> Shun them and join my Flying Goose group.  Are you with me?  Let's do this!



Done. Show me the way of the goose!


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> Blasphemer!!!!
> 
> The Goose is mogul perfection.  Seeded bumps on the flats? Width only matters if you're skiing sideways.
> 
> Get back on track with your Sundown bashing.



Hey now...!   Someone implied it would be wider and steeper than the much beloved Satan's Staircase.   I'm just correcting them, that's all!  Flying goose is fun.  There's nothing wrong with low angle bump runs.  I would love to see a few more bump runs at Sunapee - I might ski it more often.  




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powbmps (Aug 20, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Hey now...!   Someone implied it would be wider and steeper than the much beloved Satan's Staircase.   I'm just correcting them, that's all!  Flying goose is fun.  There's nothing wrong with low angle bump runs.  I would love to see a few more bump runs at Sunapee - I might ski it more often.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Low angle??  Awwwwwwwwwwwwww shit....  You're not joining my group.  The negativity will only bring the others down.

Serenity now.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 20, 2014)

powbmps said:


> Low angle??  Awwwwwwwwwwwwww shit....  You're not joining my group.  The negativity will only bring the others down.
> 
> Serenity now.



Not sure I follow...?  Are you suggesting it's a steep run?  I've been to Sunapee two times over the past 2 seasons, so maybe it's steeper than I remember.  I think Sunapee is known for intermediate terrain.  It's not a bad thing.  It just is what it is...

So I guess I'm banned from your group AND Sundown...  Who's next, Pats?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Not sure I follow...?  Are you suggesting it's a steep run?  I've been to Sunapee two times over the past 2 seasons, so maybe it's steeper than I remember.  I think Sunapee is known for intermediate terrain.  It's not a bad thing.  It just is what it is...
> 
> So I guess I'm banned from your group AND Sundown...  Who's next, Pats?
> 
> ...



He's just joshin' ya


----------



## Greg (Aug 20, 2014)

Ha ha, I guess I couldn't stay away for that long. I come back four days later and this thread is still alive and kicking? Great exposure for the mighty Ski Sundown! Keep it up everyone!!  I had to laugh when I came across this beaut:



MadMadWorld said:


> http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/topic/2027-ski-denton-steepest-in-the-east/?p=33532#entry33532
> 
> Wait what was that....pathetic? Poser? what does that shit make you? That's pretty sad.



How much time did you actually spend searching for a post that I made 9 years ago in a failed attempt to make a point? Wow, yes that IS pathetic. As creepy as your sleuthing is, equating a "STEEPEST IN THE EAST" claim to a mere double diamond trail designation as an unjustified marketing approach is quite the stretch. Nice try though.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 20, 2014)

your boy 2knees bumped it on his own ya schmuck. If I have to explain to you the irony in what you wrote then you are far more pathetic then what I originally thought.

There are lots of people on here get it and think you are a joke. I've never met you and that's probably a good thing.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 21, 2014)

lol, it was embedded in the thread i bumped.   I didnt even know that.  Greg,you're a gaper, madmadworld is the new defender of the internet!!! 

it's still funny that people use decade old threads to make their point though.  That will always be funny.


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 21, 2014)

i can't wait for more awesomeness like this





satan's stairway is going to be way more epicer


----------



## powhunter (Aug 21, 2014)

Haven't skied the goose in a few years but id say the pitch is similar to lower vertigo at K.  Maybe low angle to you expert bumpers


----------



## powbmps (Aug 21, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> If I have to explain to you the irony in what you wrote then you are far more pathetic then what I originally thought.
> 
> There are lots of people on here get it and think you are a joke. I've never met you and that's probably a good thing.



I don't get it.  I've met that Greg guy and he isn't the least bit funny.

Seriously though, as was pointed out earlier, there is a difference between claiming to have the steepest/widest/gnarest of something vs what Sundown is doing in hyping up their new run.

How about we all get together on neutral ground, hug it out, and slay some low - angle bumps?


----------



## powhunter (Aug 21, 2014)

Après veggie burgers and wine coolers?


----------



## Savemeasammy (Aug 21, 2014)

flying goose.

back in the day goosebumps - skiers right of this run - used to be bumped up.  That is a steeper run.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Nick (Aug 21, 2014)

2knees said:


> lol, it was embedded in the thread i bumped.   I didnt even know that.  Greg,you're a gaper, madmadworld is the new defender of the internet!!!
> 
> it's still funny that people use decade old threads to make their point though.  That will always be funny.



It's hard to believe AZ has been around for 16 years this year!


----------



## dlague (Aug 29, 2014)

Nick said:


> It's hard to believe AZ has been around for 16 years this year!



That should have it's own thread!


----------



## MR. evil (Aug 30, 2014)

Holy crap, how did you find that? That was a fun night of skiing for sure!



gmcunni said:


> i can't wait for more awesomeness like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jack97 (Aug 30, 2014)

Another view of the newly cut trail. My guess, Kurt (?) could easily seed 4-5 lines and if they wish, place a snow rail along the edge.

BTW, were the stumps taken out or will be graded in?


----------



## planb420 (Aug 30, 2014)

I have hiked it a few times and there is little to no stumps, but some rock formations on the edges (could be fun depending on how deep the snowpack is)



jack97 said:


> Another view of the newly cut trail. My guess, Kurt (?) could easily seed 4-5 lines and if they wish, place a snow rail along the edge.
> 
> BTW, were the stumps taken out or will be graded in?


----------



## jack97 (Aug 31, 2014)

Must have spent a pretty coin clearing that trail, stumps and all. Got to give Chris and the Sundown crew props for re investing back into the mountain.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 31, 2014)

They got rid of the stumps so they could regrade the trails with cliffs.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 31, 2014)

I thought they got rid of the stumps so that they could install a burning ring of fire.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 31, 2014)

I can't believe with all this hype and SS stoke, nobody bothered to figure out how to update their wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_Sundown


----------



## gmcunni (Sep 8, 2014)

legit
http://mogulskiing.net/index.php/articles/ski-sundown-satan-s-stairway-preview.html


----------



## Domeskier (Sep 8, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> legit
> http://mogulskiing.net/index.php/articles/ski-sundown-satan-s-stairway-preview.html





Nice article.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 8, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I can't believe with all this hype and SS stoke, nobody bothered to figure out how to update their wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_Sundown



I'm so tempted


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 8, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> legit
> http://mogulskiing.net/index.php/articles/ski-sundown-satan-s-stairway-preview.html



I am poaching it tonight.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 8, 2014)

I can't believe all the natural hazards. That shit is manicured better than a golf course.


----------



## Tin (Sep 9, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I can't believe all the natural hazards. That shit is manicured better than a golf course.



They will be able to open it after 3".


----------



## skiNEwhere (Sep 9, 2014)

Who's gonna be the first person on here to mountain bike down? We need a TR, assuming you actually survive


----------



## Mapnut (Sep 9, 2014)

Before long this thread will have one post per foot of Satan's Stairway's vertical.
By ski season it will have one post per mogul.

Don't worry about the manicuring, they covered it with some kind of matting. I'm sure the rocks will be able to work their way through.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 9, 2014)

Interesting article about Satan's Stairway.  I didn't realize that Satan liked to carpet his stairways.  I'm not sure if they got creative with the camera angle, but it is certainly steeper than the average Connecticut trail - for whatever that's worth.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 9, 2014)

They've just posted some artists renditions of what the trail will look like in the winter.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 9, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> They've just posted some artists renditions of what the trail will look like in the winter.
> 
> View attachment 13613
> 
> ...



Okay now I understand why the insurance company MADE them give it a double diamond rating


----------



## trackbiker (Sep 9, 2014)

Maybe they should have named it Satan's Couloir. ;-)


----------



## skiNEwhere (Sep 9, 2014)

I heard you can earn a free season pass by side stepping down the trail in the early season to mitigate the avalanche danger


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 9, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I heard you can earn a free season pass by side stepping down the trail in the early season to mitigate the avalanche danger



How can they seed moguls on a trail that's so steep?


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 10, 2014)




----------



## Domeskier (Sep 10, 2014)

I think they ought to change Exhibition's name to Satan's Landing and continue to seed all the way to the lifts.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 10, 2014)




----------



## bvibert (Sep 11, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I think they ought to change Exhibition's name to Satan's Landing and continue to seed all the way to the lifts.



The plan is to have bumps all the way to the lift..

I like Satan's Landing though, that's funny.


----------



## Madroch (Sep 11, 2014)

[emoji106] to satans landing... Now, we just need to revive "horn", find a way to merge it safely...leave it as horn, or maybe satan's horn, satan's bypass, temptation, etc


----------



## Madroch (Sep 11, 2014)

From staircase to gunbarrel
 could be salvation


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 11, 2014)

After looking at those photos, I'm scratching my head at how mogulskiing.net described the trail.  
Here is what they said:
_After a short, almost flat run in from the chair skiers will come to the first crest where the trail angles down into a more intermediate steepness. Shortly after that is a second crest. This is where the real steepness starts. Most skiers will likely ski down to this point and stop to gather themselves before tackling the main portion of the trail. The rest of the run is a consistently steep pitch straight down the fall line to the bottom._


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 11, 2014)




----------



## Domeskier (Sep 11, 2014)

bvibert said:


> The plan is to have bumps all the way to the lift..
> 
> I like Satan's Landing though, that's funny.



Awesome news.  Now I just have to convince my wife to relocate to Hartford!


----------



## skiNEwhere (Sep 11, 2014)

AZ summit at ski sundown? We could get a discount on the steep and deep clinic


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 11, 2014)

Satan's minions:


----------



## MadMadWorld (Sep 11, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> After looking at those photos, I'm scratching my head at how mogulskiing.net described the trail.
> Here is what they said:
> _After a short, almost flat run in from the chair skiers will come to the first crest where the trail angles down into a more intermediate steepness. Shortly after that is a second crest. This is where the real steepness starts. Most skiers will likely ski down to this point and stop to gather themselves before tackling the main portion of the trail. The rest of the run is a consistently steep pitch straight down the fall line to the bottom._



Lol you must stop and gather yourself before you get to the real gnar.


----------



## Mapnut (Sep 11, 2014)

Yes, the real gnar occurs in that dark brown patch in Kilarney's photo (post 329). Those are mogul seeds you see there.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 19, 2014)

You have to get down pretty low to avoid showing the run-out.


----------



## jarrodski (Sep 19, 2014)

come see it tomorrow at the brew fest.  drink some beers here.  

http://skisundown.com/Events/ModuleID/664/ItemID/72/mctl/EventDetails


----------



## Domeskier (Sep 19, 2014)

jarrodski said:


> come see it tomorrow at the brew fest.  drink some beers here.
> 
> http://skisundown.com/Events/ModuleID/664/ItemID/72/mctl/EventDetails



From SS FB Page: "You can pick up your first edition Satan's Stairway t-shirt at the Will Call table with your tickets!"

Will these be available for purchase by people who didn't win a free one?


----------

