# Like we've been saying about Gore....



## legalskier (Jun 4, 2019)

''Top 5: The Best Under-The-Radar Ski Resorts In North America''

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2019/05/28/top-5-radar-ski-resorts-north-america/


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## jaytrem (Jun 4, 2019)

legalskier said:


> ''Top 5: The Best Under-The-Radar Ski Resorts In North America''
> 
> https://unofficialnetworks.com/2019/05/28/top-5-radar-ski-resorts-north-america/



I think that's the 3rd time they posted that exact same article.  See that here and there with Unofficial.


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## 2Planker (Jun 4, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> I think that's the 3rd time they posted that exact same article.  See that here and there with Unofficial.



Well, I've skied 4 of the 5... 

Red Mt was outstanding  !
Schweitzer is pretty special too.
Bridger Bowl is great and has MANY exSR people working there.

Never been to Mt Rose.
Not a fan of Gore due to the crowd. Way too many Aholes.......


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## cdskier (Jun 4, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> I think that's the 3rd time they posted that exact same article.  See that here and there with Unofficial.



All the trailmaps in the article are in a "2014/04" folder so it definitely seems they've been recycling it for a while.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jun 4, 2019)

I feel like Idaho (minus Sun Valley of course) has set itself up nicely to be a "final frontier" or "last stand" for those of us looking for a destination that is not overcrowded/sold out to the larger passes in the bottom 50 states. 

Maybe its just me but I have found myself fantasizing that these places (Brundage, Schweitzer etc.) are what Colorado/Utah were like 20-30 years ago. anyone who's skied in ID wanna throw some more stoke?


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## machski (Jun 4, 2019)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> I feel like Idaho (minus Sun Valley of course) has set itself up nicely to be a "final frontier" or "last stand" for those of us looking for a destination that is not overcrowded/sold out to the larger passes in the bottom 50 states.
> 
> Maybe its just me but I have found myself fantasizing that these places (Brundage, Schweitzer etc.) are what Colorado/Utah were like 20-30 years ago. anyone who's skied in ID wanna throw some more stoke?


Put Silver in ID and Whitefish in MT on that list.  All are relatively close for a quick strike too.  Haven't been to Mt. Rose but have seen it from air and ground many times.  I feel like that isn't as much a hidden Gem given you can stare right at it from downtown Reno!

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## Harvey (Jun 5, 2019)

2Planker said:


> Not a fan of Gore due to the crowd. Way too many Aholes.......



Care to elaborate?


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## 2Planker (Jun 5, 2019)

Harvey said:


> Care to elaborate?



  Lets see.

   - Customer Service questioning how I received my Comps (30 year NSP Patroller).
-  Smoking in the lift line.
-  Tossing beverage cans off the lift.
-  Patrons not willing to wait in line w/ everyone else... Cutting/ saving spots for people in lift lines.
          -   Pushy & obnoxious attitude(s) in Caf line.

-  Parking lot entitlement from some gal "because I'm a season pass holder" - Yeah right, I'll give up my spot for you. :razz:

 Kinda reminded me of Killington on a Holiday weekend....

 No worries - Plenty of places to ski a lil further north...


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## BenedictGomez (Jun 5, 2019)

2Planker said:


> *Not a fan of Gore due to the crowd. Way too many Aholes.*......



That's odd; there's never been _"too many"_ of, uh...... well, anyone, whenever I've skied Gore.


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## abc (Jun 5, 2019)

I can attest Mt Rose is fan-freaking-tastic!

My 2-3 trips to Gore was...underwhelming so far.


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## JimG. (Jun 5, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's odd; there's never been _"too many"_ of, uh...... well, anyone, whenever I've skied Gore.



My thought as well.


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## zyk (Jun 5, 2019)

In my experience if you know where to look when the woods are in play it's fantastic.  If orda offered a midweek gore belleayre whiteface pass I would probably switch to that.


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## JimG. (Jun 5, 2019)

zyk said:


> In my experience if you know where to look when the woods are in play it's fantastic.  If orda offered a midweek gore belleayre whiteface pass I would probably switch to that.



I have the regular NYS 3 in 1. I don't get to Gore enough. I do Belleayre a lot because its very close but I have to get to Gore more. At least 5 days part of next season's goals no reason I should not do that.


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## skiur (Jun 6, 2019)

2Planker said:


> Lets see.
> 
> - Customer Service questioning how I received my Comps (30 year NSP Patroller).
> -  Smoking in the lift line.
> ...



Sounds like every ski resort south of northern Vermont!


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## cdskier (Jun 6, 2019)

2Planker said:


> Lets see.
> 
> - Customer Service questioning how I received my Comps (30 year NSP Patroller).
> -  Smoking in the lift line.
> ...



Interesting...I never had any of those experiences, but I also haven't been there in probably 8 or 9 years now. Wonder if things have changed or if I was just lucky (or you unlucky). All of those things would bother me if I had experienced them.


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## Smellytele (Jun 6, 2019)

Only had issues in the restaurant/bar with service. No issue with clientele. 


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## mikec142 (Jun 6, 2019)

2Planker said:


> Lets see.
> 
> - Customer Service questioning how I received my Comps (30 year NSP Patroller).
> -  Smoking in the lift line.
> ...



I usually get up to Gore 2x/season.  One of my closest friend's family has a house nearby so I've been going since I was a little kid.  I haven't experienced any of these things.

That said, unfortunately, tossing cans from the lift doesn't seem to be limited to Gore...I rarely see it happen, but have seen the results on the ground.  Camelback is where I've seen it the most (by far).

I can't stand smoking...wherever it happens, so smoking in the liftline is bullshit to me.  But there's always going to be the folks who believe that their right to smoke take precedence over your right to breathe clean air.  Again, I rarely see it, but have a hard time believing that this is a specific problem to Gore.

Same goes with the parking and cafeteria lines...there are always entitled people in this world.  

What I will say is that Gore's terrain compares very favorably to any of the Southern VT hills at a cheaper price.

The areas where I feel that Gore falls short have little to do with the mountain itself.  Falls short in lodging, dining options, grocery stores, beer/wine selection, night life, things to do other than ski, etc. etc.


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## cdskier (Jun 6, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> The areas where I feel that Gore falls short have little to do with the mountain itself.  Falls short in lodging, dining options, grocery stores, beer/wine selection, night life, things to do other than ski, etc. etc.



Yea, I love the mountain itself but couldn't commit to buying a vacation home in the area and making it my "home" mountain for those very reasons that you outlined.


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## Harvey (Jun 6, 2019)

The lack of crowds and lack of amenities are directly correlated.

If Gore was "state of the art" like say Stratton, it would be more crowded.

I'm committed to Gore (own land in the area) in part _because_ of how quiet it is, and the hundreds of thousands of acres of wilderness in the area, not in spite of it.


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## JimG. (Jun 6, 2019)

Harvey said:


> The lack of crowds and lack of amenities are directly correlated.
> 
> If Gore was "state of the art" like say Stratton, it would be more crowded.
> 
> I'm committed to Gore (own land in the area) in part _because_ of how quiet it is, and the hundreds of thousands of acres of wilderness in the area, not in spite of it.



Lot's of great summer activities too great hiking and fishing.

Someone said there are no amenities but like you I prefer to be away from that. 

And Lake George village is only 20-25 minutes away tons of amenities there.


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## cdskier (Jun 6, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Lot's of great summer activities too great hiking and fishing.
> 
> Someone said there are no amenities but like you I prefer to be away from that.
> 
> And Lake George village is only 20-25 minutes away tons of amenities there.



I'd be extremely impressed if you can make it from Gore to Lake George village in 20-25 minutes. Closer to 35 is more accurate.

But anyway, there's a happy medium between what Gore/North Creek is like today vs somewhere like Stratton. That's what they need. I would never want them to be as built up Stratton or K, however something more like the Mad River Valley area would be ideal.


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## JimG. (Jun 6, 2019)

cdskier said:


> I'd be extremely impressed if you can make it from Gore to Lake George village in 20-25 minutes. Closer to 35 is more accurate.
> 
> But anyway, there's a happy medium between what Gore/North Creek is like today vs somewhere like Stratton. That's what they need. I would never want them to be as built up Stratton or K, however something more like the Mad River Valley area would be ideal.



So let's average to 30 minutes. That's perfect in my view.


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## AdironRider (Jun 6, 2019)

JimG. said:


> So let's average to 30 minutes. That's perfect in my view.



Lake George though is a ghost town once summer ends. Don't a lot of places close for winter?


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## BenedictGomez (Jun 6, 2019)

cdskier said:


> there's a happy medium between what Gore/North Creek is like today vs somewhere like Stratton. That's what they need. I would never want them to be as built up Stratton or K, however something more like the Mad River Valley area would be ideal.



Yup.    Anyone know if Gore operates in the black?


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## cdskier (Jun 6, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yup.    Anyone know if Gore operates in the black?



Just read ORDA's reports...that will make it clear as mud!


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## deadheadskier (Jun 6, 2019)

If I were a Gore skier, I'd like the fact that there's not much nearby.  I'd be content with commuting from a place in Lake George.  Hell if you can swing a lake house, even better. 

Not having development at the mountain makes for such a better ski experience.  The lack of slopeside or even nearby development is the exact reason why Wildcat and Cannon have vaulted to the top of my list as the best places to ski in New England on weekends.  I've grown so used to it, I cringe at the thought of skiing at "resorts" now. 

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## Harvey (Jun 6, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> If I were a Gore skier, I'd like the fact that there's not much nearby.  I'd be content with commuting from a place in Lake George.  Hell if you can swing a lake house, even better.
> 
> Not having development at the mountain makes for such a better ski experience.  The lack of slopeside or even nearby development is the exact reason why Wildcat and Cannon have vaulted to the top of my list as the best places to ski in New England on weekends.  I've grown so used to it, I cringe at the thought of skiing at "resorts" now.




Agree with all of this.

I can see the summit of Gore from our place. It's maybe 4 miles as the crow flies, about 10 miles by car, including the access road. I love the drive along the river.

I love the fact that there is no slopeside at Gore. When you stand atop Gore, or Bear, or Burnt, or Little Gore... all you see is wilderness.

As far as the continuum goes, if Gore is a 1 and Stratton is a 10, the middle ground I choose is 1.

The thing about Gore is that, like any mountain, the people who ski there regularly gravitate towards that experience. We love limitless trees, we love 500 acres, we love 14 (?) pods, hell we even like our flat spots.  We have a huge tele community and the flats are a breeze.

Gore is awesome, if you like that kind of thing. It's clearly not for everybody, if it was, it would be crowded.  Out side of my obsession with getting in line early for first chair, I haven't waited ten minutes in a lift line at Gore in over ten years. And I'm basically a weekend and holiday skier.


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## cdskier (Jun 6, 2019)

Harvey said:


> Agree with all of this.
> 
> I can see the summit of Gore from our place. It's maybe 4 miles as the crow flies, about 10 miles by car, including the access road. I love the drive along the river.
> 
> ...



And this is exactly why BG’s question is so relevant. Would gore be able to survive using this model as a private resort that wasn’t subsidized by the state of NY? I have serious doubts...

Don’t get me wrong, I love gore, but I have serious questions about its viability if it wasn’t state own/run.


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## BenedictGomez (Jun 6, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Just read ORDA's reports...that will make it clear as mud!



Some years ago I tried to do as deep a dive on that as I could (I posted it here), and it was very hard.  Not because I dont have the knowledge, but because it's obvious State of New York intentionally makes it very hard to figure out what's going on.

As best I can remember (as I said it's been some years), I figured Whiteface was profitable, but Gore & Belleayre lose money.  ORDA's really a trainwreck though, that's for sure.


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## mbedle (Jun 7, 2019)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Gore potentially going to have a massive slope side development (Ski Bowl Village) adjacent to the north creek area?


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## St. Jerry (Jun 7, 2019)

Yea, no way Gore is profitable. (and I do resort profitability analysis for a living).  Tax payers subsidize those relatively cheap walk-up lift ticket prices.  But then again I think price accessibility for all (most) is part of the reason why NYS owns the resort; for the benefit of its citizens.


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## Harvey (Jun 7, 2019)

cdskier said:


> And this is exactly why BG’s question is so relevant. Would gore be able to survive using this model as a private resort that wasn’t subsidized by the state of NY? I have serious doubts...
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I love gore, but I have serious questions about its viability if it wasn’t state own/run.
> 
> ...



If the only thing that changed was no public money Gore would certainly struggle. While Gore is probably "profitable" at times, what isn't included in that analysis is the infrastructure improvements which aren't financed, but granted by NY. Burnt Ridge Quad, Adk Express, Northwoods Gondola for starters << that's probably 20M+ right there that is not figured in the numbers.

But if Gore was private there would likely be slopeside condos to help finance some of that.

FWIW the Ski Bowl development is on private land that happens to be adjacent to town land that has a lift pod. That pod is connected to Gore a certain times.  There are no accommodations on Gore (or Johnsburg) land.  If and when Gore has the capacity to keep that low elevation terrain open all season then the Ski Bowl development could potentially take off. The market for slopeside condos that are accessible 30 days a year isn't really there. Apparently.


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## x10003q (Jun 7, 2019)

cps27 said:


> Yea, no way Gore is profitable. (and I do resort profitability analysis for a living).  Tax payers subsidize those relatively cheap walk-up lift ticket prices.  But then again I think price accessibility for all (most) is part of the reason why NYS owns the resort; for the benefit of its citizens.



Gore's season pass pricing structure has not been that much cheaper than SVT for years and sometimes it costs more. Recently, in this cheap season pass era,  Gore's window day pass has been much less expensive than SVT. This was true before 2000.  It is impossible to tell if Gore is profitable due to the 'non-profit' nature of ORDA's accounting. It does seem to operate cash flow positive without accounting for adding/replacing lifts/lodging/snowmaking. 

The fact is that even after 20 years of huge NYS funded expansion of terrain, lifts, snowmaking and day lodges, Gore still floats around 215k visits/season. It has been in this range since 2000. Gore could easily handle another 50k visits and nobody would notice and NYS would get a better return on its investment. This should be a huge embarrassment to ORDA and NYS and somebody should be held accountable, but ORDA seems fine with this level of usage. ORDA does not want any competition with Lake Placid to fill beds.

Gore remains a large, enjoyable, empty ski area that has easy access to the highway. It is the place to go to avoid crowds on weekends and holidays.


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## mikec142 (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> The lack of crowds and lack of amenities are directly correlated.
> 
> If Gore was "state of the art" like say Stratton, it would be more crowded.
> 
> I'm committed to Gore (own land in the area) in part _because_ of how quiet it is, and the hundreds of thousands of acres of wilderness in the area, not in spite of it.



I'm in complete agreement about the abundant wilderness and lack of crowds.  I'm a big fan of Gore for these reasons.  My issue is the entire area (we spend a lot of time at a friends house in Warrensburg) lacks restaurants, lodging, food stores, movie theaters, etc. etc.  

When we visit our friends, we bring the vast majority of our food and drink with us and spend time at the house cooking and enjoying a book or board game.  And I love every minute of this.  But it would be great to be able to go out and enjoy a decent meal every once in a while.  

If I weren't staying at a friends place, I'd most likely go to Northern VT.


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## bigbog (Jun 10, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> ..........When we visit our friends, we bring the vast majority of our food and drink with us and spend time at the house cooking and enjoying a book or board game.  And I love every minute of this.  But it would be great to be able to go out and enjoy a decent meal every once in a while.
> 
> If I weren't staying at a friends place, I'd most likely go to Northern VT.



Definitely lodging with small refrig, sink/table for a healthy meal or ten with a fresh food market, WiFi and maybe a few restaurants(but not required..some family run palaces = possibilities of family brawls @night resembling(ie Star Trek) Landrue's 6pm Festival) make the deal.....along with a cell tower somewhere.


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## abc (Jun 10, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> What I will say is that Gore's terrain compares very favorably to any of the Southern VT hills at a cheaper price.


Does it receive the same snow as S VT?

The few times I was there, condition were so-so. Given it's not the crowd skiing the snow off, I'd be curious about the snow fall comparison. 

Whiteface is know as Iceface for that reason. Not sure if it's the same situation with Gore.


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

Gore gets somewhere around 50-100 inches less snow that SoVT depending on what you consider to be SoVT.  That nickname for Whiteface is not about snowfall, but wind. Snowfall at Whiteface is generally on par with SoVT, again depending how you define SoVT.

https://nyskiblog.com/directory/weather-data/gore-mountain-snow-totals/annual-average/


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> I'm in complete agreement about the abundant wilderness and lack of crowds.  I'm a big fan of Gore for these reasons.  My issue is the entire area (we spend a lot of time at a friends house in Warrensburg) lacks restaurants, lodging, food stores, movie theaters, etc. etc.



These are the same issue.  It's a bit like saying "so and so is a such a nice person, but I wish he/she would be a more aggressive leader."

The lack of amenities are directly related to the amount of preserved land. It's harder for businesses to thrive.


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## abc (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> The lack of amenities are directly related to the amount of preserved land. It's harder for businesses to thrive.


Amenity can either be provided by the mountain ("resort"). Or developed organically, away from the mountain. 

Gore is too far as a day trip for the downstate population. The lack of "amenity" means they can't or won't stay overnight. Instead they go all the way to WF -- more amenity. Or SVT which has with better snow, comparable terrain and similar in driving time(also more amenity) 

The lack of the latter is directly related to the lack of patrons.


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## mikec142 (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> Gore gets somewhere around 50-100 inches less snow that SoVT depending on what you consider to be SoVT.  That nickname for Whiteface is not about snowfall, but wind. Snowfall at Whiteface is generally on par with SoVT, again depending how you define SoVT.
> 
> https://nyskiblog.com/directory/weather-data/gore-mountain-snow-totals/annual-average/



Thanks for this info.  

FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills).  From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.

The interesting thing about Gore and Whiteface is they seem to exist in their own little micro-climate.  When it's cold, it seems to be a few degrees colder at Gore/Whiteface than it is at the mountains in VT.  I could be totally making this up, but that's the way it feels to me.


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## machski (Jun 10, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> Thanks for this info.
> 
> FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills).  From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.
> 
> The interesting thing about Gore and Whiteface is they seem to exist in their own little micro-climate.  When it's cold, it seems to be a few degrees colder at Gore/Whiteface than it is at the mountains in VT.  I could be totally making this up, but that's the way it feels to me.


Probably just you, especially if you can actually tell the difference between just a few degrees.

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## cdskier (Jun 10, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills).  From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.



I'd agree with this. They have some great terrain. Perhaps I lucked out, but conditions were always pretty good as well whenever I was there (certainly at least on par with what I experienced in SoVT, if not better).


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

abc said:


> Amenity can either be provided by the mountain ("resort"). Or developed organically, away from the mountain.
> 
> Gore is too far as a day trip for the downstate population. The lack of "amenity" means they can't or won't stay overnight. Instead they go all the way to WF -- more amenity. Or SVT which has with better snow, comparable terrain and similar in driving time(also more amenity)
> 
> The lack of the latter is directly related to the lack of patrons.



While Gore has had more infrastructure (lifts) in the last decade or two, Whiteface (or more accurately Lake Placid) has had more all around investment for many decades before that.  Also, the views from Lake Placid and the high peaks attract more visitors year round.


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

cdskier said:


> I'd agree with this. They have some great terrain. Perhaps I lucked out, but conditions were always pretty good as well whenever I was there (certainly at least on par with what I experienced in SoVT, if not better).



I would define it that way too. Some people look at Northern and So VT, and some add in Central. I'd call Killington Central VT, but if I had to choose between north and south, I'd probably put it south.

Killington 250 inches
Mount Snow 200 inches
Gore 150 inches in a good year, more like 125 on average over the last 10.

FWIW Gore's trees have been kept pretty clean historically and have been skiable with about 40 inches.


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## abc (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> Whiteface (or more accurately Lake Placid) has had more all around investment for many decades before that.  Also, the views from Lake Placid and the high peaks attract more visitors year round.


Count me as one of those visitors to Lake Placid. 

It’s a bit of chicken and egg problem. The southern ADK has quite a bit of hiking too. But again, the lack of amenities leaves visitors to the north (or stopped at Lake George).


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

abc said:


> It’s a bit of chicken and egg problem. The southern ADK has quite a bit of hiking too. But again, the lack of amenities leaves visitors to the north (or stopped at Lake George).



One thing that keeps me out of the mainstream... I don't consider it a problem.

Most people would rather climb the high peaks than spend time in the south. The 46ers give lip service to spreading out usage in the park, and they wring their hands about overuse and degradation but they remain singularly focused on that small part of the park. ADK is the same way. To many "Adirondacks" is synonymous with Lake Placid and the High Peaks.

Every ski area doesn't have to strive to meet the same ideal.


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## Scruffy (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> One thing that keeps me out of the mainstream... I don't consider it a problem.
> 
> Most people would rather climb the high peaks than spend time in the south. The 46ers give lip service to spreading out usage in the park, and they wring their hands about overuse and degradation but they remain singularly focused on that small part of the park. ADK is the same way. To many "Adirondacks" is synonymous with Lake Placid and the High Peaks.
> 
> Every ski area doesn't have to strive to meet the same ideal.



Agree 100%.


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## Scruffy (Jun 10, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> Thanks for this info.
> 
> FWIW, I define SoVT as Mount Snow, Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo (may be missing some hills).  From a terrain perspective, I think Gore is better than any of these mountains.
> 
> The interesting thing about Gore and Whiteface is they seem to exist in their own little micro-climate.  When it's cold, it seems to be a few degrees colder at Gore/Whiteface than it is at the mountains in VT.  I could be totally making this up, but that's the way it feels to me.





machski said:


> Probably just you, especially if you can actually tell the difference between just a few degrees.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



No, it's not his imagination. North Creek and the surrounding area is a "cold spot". I've spent many a winter morning in the area where it was way < -0°F and 50 miles away was way above 0°F. It's one of the first places in NY to freeze in the autumn. Vermont is a sauna compared to North Creek, NY.


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## JimG. (Jun 10, 2019)

Scruffy said:


> Agree 100%.



+1 love flying under the radar


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be.  Groomed and high speed mostly.  He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.

I just don't get it. Gore has 105 trails on the map and 4 or 5 of them are old school. Why do those 5 trails have to be made to be like the 100 others?  Does Vermont become a better place to ski if Magic strives to become Okemo?  Should Plattekill be more like Windham?

Jim I think you said hi to me once at Plattekill? We should ski together.


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## cdskier (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be.  Groomed and high speed mostly.  He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.



Ugh...Lower Steilhang is great as is. Love classic old school trails like that. No idea why anyone would advocate homogenizing trails and having less variety.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be.  Groomed and high speed mostly.  He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.
> 
> I just don't get it. Gore has 105 trails on the map and 4 or 5 of them are old school. Why do those 5 trails have to be made to be like the 100 others?  Does Vermont become a better place to ski if Magic strives to become Okemo?  Should Plattekill be more like Windham?
> 
> Jim I think you said hi to me once at Plattekill? We should ski together.


What is his/her rationale for homogenizing that old school trail?  

Aren't there plenty enough high speed groomers at Gore already?  

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## BenedictGomez (Jun 10, 2019)

Gore's terrain is significantly better than any resort in southern Vermont.


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## Harvey (Jun 10, 2019)

I can't answer your question DHS. It makes no sense to me. Anyone skied Empire at Whiteface?  Another narrow gem, with no snowmaking.

Another opinion he expresses... you should never cut a trail if you can't put snowmaking in, in the same year.  I don't get that either.

Here's another opinion of mine that maybe you more of you guys will disagree with.

IMO, Burnt Ridge is one of the most unique pods in the East.  A high speed quad that serves one long liftline trail and 4 glades that are over a mile long each.  It's the first place I head when the trees are in play. Because of one of Gore's "dreaded" traverses the pod is even more underutilized than the rest of the mountain.  Somehow it's rad to climb and hike all day to ski three runs in Tuckerman, but if you have to skate 20 or 50 strokes to get to Burnt Ridge, the mountain sucks.

The conventional wisdom is that it is a waste of a high speed lift.  The long term plan is to put another trail in that will eliminate or significantly disrupt two of those beautiful glades.  I understand the pressure to do this, and I'll accept it when it happens, but I love it the way it is now.  There is nothing better than getting a heads up from patrol, being in the right place at the right time and skiing continuous untracked for a mile. You don't even have to be first to do it.

Here's one time that happened. If it's not cool to link to our forum DHS, apologies, feel free to delete the link:

https://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Mountain-NY-2-2-15-Mid-Week-Pow-Magic-td4054066.html


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## JimG. (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> We have a forum member over at NYSB who has pretty specific ideas about what a ski area should be.  Groomed and high speed mostly.  He's advocated for the straightening and widening of Lower Steilhang, one of the remaining old school trails at Gore.
> 
> I just don't get it. Gore has 105 trails on the map and 4 or 5 of them are old school. Why do those 5 trails have to be made to be like the 100 others?  Does Vermont become a better place to ski if Magic strives to become Okemo?  Should Plattekill be more like Windham?
> 
> Jim I think you said hi to me once at Plattekill? We should ski together.



Next season for sure.


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## cdskier (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> I can't answer your question DHS. It makes no sense to me. Anyone skied Empire at Whiteface?  Another narrow gem, with no snowmaking.
> 
> Another opinion he expresses... you should never cut a trail if you can't put snowmaking in, in the same year.  I don't get that either.



Don't get that one either...

Not only do I think it is ok to not install snowmaking in the same year the trail is cut, I think in some cases it is ok to never have snowmaking installed on some trails!



> Here's another opinion of mine that maybe you more of you guys will disagree with.
> 
> IMO, Burnt Ridge is one of the most unique pods in the East.  A high speed quad that serves one long liftline trail and 4 glades that are over a mile long each.  It's the first place I head when the trees are in play. Because of one of Gore's "dreaded" traverses the pod is even more underutilized than the rest of the mountain.  Somehow it's rad to climb and hike all day to ski three runs in Tuckerman, but if you have to skate 20 or 50 strokes to get to Burnt Ridge, the mountain sucks.
> 
> The conventional wisdom is that it is a waste of a high speed lift.  The long term plan is to put another trail in that will eliminate or significantly disrupt two of those beautiful glades.  I understand the pressure to do this, and I'll accept it when it happens, but I love it the way it is now.  There is nothing better than getting a heads up from patrol, being in the right place at the right time and skiing continuous untracked for a mile. You don't even have to be first to do it.



Actually I would agree with you. I never had the pleasure of skiing Burnt Ridge (Can't recall whether the last time I was at Gore it hadn't been finished yet or whether it just wasn't open that weekend). However that pod sounds pretty awesome. Some of the skiers at my home mountain have often fantasized about a pod very similar to that being created there, so you certainly won't see me disagreeing with you that it is NOT a waste of a lift.


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## abc (Jun 10, 2019)

Harvey said:


> One thing that keeps me out of the mainstream... I don't consider it a problem.
> 
> Most people would rather climb the high peaks than spend time in the south. The 46ers give lip service to spreading out usage in the park, and they wring their hands about overuse and degradation but they remain singularly focused on that small part of the park. ADK is the same way. To many "Adirondacks" is synonymous with Lake Placid and the High Peaks.
> 
> Every ski area doesn't have to strive to meet the same ideal.


That’s one way of looking at it. 

To believe people who don’t come to North Creek because they were too busy chasing big name peaks. When the real reason they don’t come is because they can’t find a room to sleep or a place that serves decent food. 

One effective way to discourage tourism is not to provide service, ON PURPOSE. 

That said, not every place needs tourist, especially places where the locals are sustaining the economy well.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 11, 2019)

Harvey said:


> I can't answer your question DHS. It makes no sense to me. Anyone skied Empire at Whiteface?  Another narrow gem, with no snowmaking.
> 
> Another opinion he expresses... you should never cut a trail if you can't put snowmaking in, in the same year.  I don't get that either.
> 
> ...


No problem with the link.  

Burnt Ridge sounds fantastic.  I wouldn't want to see it changed either.  Ironically, Sugarloaf skiers often speculate on putting a lift in on Burnt Mountain.  If they were ever to do a lift, I'd want to see only what Gore has done with their Burnt; lift line trail only and the rest glades.  Sugarloaf Burnt terrain requires a significant hike up to ski. I'd estimate at least an hour to get to the top, which I haven't done. If skied all the way down it can take about 30 minutes to hike back to the resort. That I have done. They added a fee based Cat skiing program to provide easier access. Sounds like they'll just stick to that and not add a lift. 

I'm with cdskier.  I like terrain that's cut and left natural only.  That represents about 20 of the 48 trails at Wildcat.  Some of those trails had snowmaking at one point, but they no longer use it.  Most of the clientele prefers it that way.   It can really limit options during natural snow droughts, but the payoff is much better skiing when it snows.  If I get bored during drought periods, I simply head to Attitash for the day or sometimes I'll ski the morning at Wildcat and the afternoon at Attitash. Plenty of groomed snowmaking terrain over there. I'd argue too much in fact. 

One of these years I'll make it over to Gore. Sounds like my kinda place.  Tough slog from the NH Seacoast. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Smellytele (Jun 11, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Gore's terrain is significantly better than any resort in southern Vermont.



Better than Magic? I think not. I like Gore more than any other in So VT.


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## Smellytele (Jun 11, 2019)

My favorite ski areas all have no on mountain lodging (Wildcat, Cannon, Mad River Glen, A-basin and Loveland) All have lodging within a half hour as does Gore. Is staying a little over a half hour away such a hassle? Better than driving from 3 hours away.


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## Harvey (Jun 11, 2019)

abc said:


> That’s one way of looking at it.
> 
> To believe people who don’t come to North Creek because they were too busy chasing big name peaks. When the real reason they don’t come is because they can’t find a room to sleep or a place that serves decent food.
> 
> ...



I should be clear, this is another area where my opinion is not mainstream.  Many or even maybe most agree that if "they" would build some beds that Gore would become more of a destination.

Who is they? I believe that if there was unserved demand the few options that are available would be full and they would be expanded or more competition would come in.  There are some nice houses in town that could be rented too.  They are to some extent, but not too capacity.

Gore is relatively easy to get to for a lot of people in the Hudson Valley, downstate NY and parts of NJ.  Maybe not easy, but easier than Killington.  (Magic is about the same drive time from my house, but I get there less because I have a place to stay at Gore.

But, as mentions much of VT gets more snow. 100 more inches at K is a big deal, 10 inches more per week for 10 weeks. And because SoVT has a lot of slopeside, it's "easier" to take a family, where everyone doesn't want to ski on the same schedule.

I don't think any of this is on purpose.  ORDA and the locals all want more business.


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## Harvey (Jun 11, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> Better than Magic? I think not. I like Gore more than any other in So VT.



Magic is awesome. I've only skied in a few times, but I love the terrain, and there's a distinct lack of dynamite used.  Gore's lowest elevation terrain (Old Gore aka The Ski Bowl) is like this to some extent.  

I felt welcomed by people I didn't know too.  I'm not exactly a ripper, but I do tend to ski with a lot of true experts. I know enough people at Gore so that I can find skiers who are willing to ski with me.  Magic was like that, people wait for you to pop out of the trees, and I'm basically a stranger there.


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## cdskier (Jun 11, 2019)

Harvey said:


> I don't think any of this is on purpose.  ORDA and the locals all want more business.



I always heard a story that when Rt 28 was being built, the North Creek old timers specifically wanted it routed AROUND downtown instead of through it like originally planned. "We don't want tourists parking on our street and taking up spots for us locals."

Granted this was ages ago...but I still think it is a decent anecdote that shows why Gore is the way it is and has the reputation that it does for having nothing around it. And while it does have some lodging (which can be underutilized at times), it still has the perception from many people that there's nothing there at all. So it is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People think there's nothing there so they stay away which deflates demand. Even if they did build more, it would either take a long time or a very strong marketing campaign to change the existing perception and increase the demand.


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## cdskier (Jun 11, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> My favorite ski areas all have no on mountain lodging (Wildcat, Cannon, Mad River Glen, A-basin and Loveland) All have lodging within a half hour as does Gore. Is staying a little over a half hour away such a hassle? Better than driving from 3 hours away.



I can't speak for the others, but MRG isn't a good comparison in my mind. There's quite a bit of lodging within just a few minutes of MRG (plus tons of restaurant choices unlike Gore). I actually think if Gore was like the MRV area, it would be ideal.


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## Harvey (Jun 11, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> No problem with the link.
> 
> Burnt Ridge sounds fantastic.  I wouldn't want to see it changed either.  Ironically, Sugarloaf skiers often speculate on putting a lift in on Burnt Mountain.  If they were ever to do a lift, I'd want to see only what Gore has done with their Burnt; lift line trail only and the rest glades.  Sugarloaf Burnt terrain requires a significant hike up to ski. I'd estimate at least an hour to get to the top, which I haven't done. If skied all the way down it can take about 30 minutes to hike back to the resort. That I have done. They added a fee based Cat skiing program to provide easier access. Sounds like they'll just stick to that and not add a lift.
> 
> ...



Burnt at Gore will change and that trail will get put in. Many (not me but many) dislike the traverses between Gore's 4 peaks.  By adding that new trail it will make it easier for non-tree skiers to go from Burnt Ridge to Little Gore.  I could care less about traversing. I'm a nordic skier on free heels and I like it.  How many of those people whining about the traverses have gym memberships?  The area has deep nordic roots and there are a ton of teleskiers on the hill.  The traverse to Burnt or where ever is part of our day.  My buddy Duck, one time on a lark went from the summit of Gore all the way to bottom of little Gore, in something like 15 minutes, basically hitting almost every traverse.  Granted he was going as fast as he could, but really it is not that bad.  IMO.

It is tough to get across from NH.  Riverc0il came to ski with me once, we did one day at Gore and one at Whiteface. Conditions were prime and we got into the slides so I think it was worth it for him.

I've been to NH once. Conditions were thin, but I loved Wildcat and Mittersill the most.


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## Smellytele (Jun 11, 2019)

cdskier said:


> I can't speak for the others, but MRG isn't a good comparison in my mind. There's quite a bit of lodging within just a few minutes of MRG (plus tons of restaurant choices unlike Gore). I actually think if Gore was like the MRV area, it would be ideal.



Okay but the others are similar. Wildcat has North Conway, Cannon - Lincoln, Gore - Lake George.


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## Harvey (Jun 11, 2019)

cdskier said:


> I always heard a story that when Rt 28 was being built, the North Creek old timers specifically wanted it routed AROUND downtown instead of through it like originally planned. "We don't want tourists parking on our street and taking up spots for us locals."
> 
> Granted this was ages ago...but I still think it is a decent anecdote that shows why Gore is the way it is and has the reputation that it does for having nothing around it. And while it does have some lodging (which can be underutilized at times), it still has the perception from many people that there's nothing there at all. So it is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People think there's nothing there so they stay away which deflates demand. Even if they did build more, it would either take a long time or a very strong marketing campaign to change the existing perception and increase the demand.



The bypass is a factor and also the fact that the mountain is closer to the skiers than the town are both factors.  Even without the bypass 95% of skiers can get to Gore without passing through town.  That certainly hurts business.


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## Harvey (Jun 11, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Don't get that one either...
> 
> Not only do I think it is ok to not install snowmaking in the same year the trail is cut, I think in some cases it is ok to never have snowmaking installed on some trails!



I agree.

One of the kids at Gore came out with something a few years ago that has stuck:

"Daddy thin cover is secret code for good snow!"


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## BenedictGomez (Jun 11, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> One of these years I'll make it over to Gore.* Sounds like my kinda place. *



I think you'd like Plattekill even more.



Smellytele said:


> *Better than Magic?* I think not.



Yes, _easily_ better than Magic.  

 I do realize there are people on this board that you're not even allowed to say Zermatt or Whistler Blackcomb are better than Magic, but taken in toto, yes, Gore is better than Magic.   And I love Magic.


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## cdskier (Jun 11, 2019)

Harvey said:


> I agree.
> 
> One of the kids at Gore came out with something a few years ago that has stuck:
> 
> "Daddy thin cover is secret code for good snow!"



I'll take thin cover natural snow over man-made hard pack/ice any day!


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## abc (Jun 11, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> My favorite ski areas all have no on mountain lodging (Wildcat, Cannon, Mad River Glen, A-basin and Loveland) All have lodging within a half hour as does Gore. Is staying a little over a half hour away such a hassle? Better than driving from 3 hours away.


MRG is in the middle of a cluster of mountains (Stowe, Sugarbush, Bolton)
Wildcat's base, North Conway is also a base for a bunch of other mountains. 
A-basin & Loveland the same.

They "feed off" families who may go to those other mountains mixing and matching. Or families who grow into advance level in search of terrain. 

Cannon a little less so. But still, one can get to it from Lincoln, "paired" with Loon.

What other mountains can you mix and match with Gore? 

The lack on on-mountain lodging can be offset by abundant lodging in neighboring mountains and towns. Gore doesn't have that to take advantage of. I've done the stay-in-Lake-George way. But while LG is buzzing in the summer and has tons of lodging, many of them close entirely in the winter. So the lodging choice is actually not that great. 

So far, the only way I found it works is by hitting Gore on my way north (to either WF or Killington/Pico), without stopping in the area for the night.


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## x10003q (Jun 11, 2019)

abc said:


> That’s one way of looking at it.
> 
> To believe people who don’t come to North Creek because they were too busy chasing big name peaks. When the real reason they don’t come is because they can’t find a room to sleep or a place that serves decent food.
> 
> ...



The locals in North Creek are not sustaining the economy. That was the purpose of the Gore expansion over the last 20 years - to financially help North Creek and the surrounding area.

 Gore is still seeing about the same number of visitors/ski season it saw when it was half the size it is now. ORDA refuses to advertise Gore in the NYC metro area while it does advertise Lake Placid/WF. Gore is less than 3.5 hours from much of the northern and western suburbs of NYC. I get to Gore from north NJ in 3:10. Gore has almost 50% more terrain than WF, better terrain for green and blue skiers, warmer, less windy weather than WF, and is much closer and easier to get to vs WF. Gore also has virtually unlimited water from the Hudson River. Yet, ORDA does not promote Gore. They do not want to lose Lake Placid visits to North Creek.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 11, 2019)

I think you are misremembering how close Cannon is to Lincoln. It's less than 15 minutes. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JimG. (Jun 11, 2019)

Harvey said:


> Burnt at Gore will change and that trail will get put in. Many (not me but many) dislike the traverses between Gore's 4 peaks.  By adding that new trail it will make it easier for non-tree skiers to go from Burnt Ridge to Little Gore.  I could care less about traversing. I'm a nordic skier on free heels and I like it.  How many of those people whining about the traverses have gym memberships?  The area has deep nordic roots and there are a ton of teleskiers on the hill.  The traverse to Burnt or where ever is part of our day.  My buddy Duck, one time on a lark went from the summit of Gore all the way to bottom of little Gore, in something like 15 minutes, basically hitting almost every traverse.  Granted he was going as fast as he could, but really it is not that bad.  IMO.
> 
> It is tough to get across from NH.  Riverc0il came to ski with me once, we did one day at Gore and one at Whiteface. Conditions were prime and we got into the slides so I think it was worth it for him.
> 
> I've been to NH once. Conditions were thin, but I loved Wildcat and Mittersill the most.



I like the traverses for the very reason most hate them...you have to make an effort to access the good stuff. Same reason I'll sit on that slow ass North Creek triple to ski 46er.

Same reason I'll bushwack 2-3 miles downstream on a trout stream before I start casting.

That proposed trail at Burnt will be a scar in those great tree areas.


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## Killingtime (Jun 11, 2019)

abc said:


> MRG is in the middle of a cluster of mountains (Stowe, Sugarbush, Bolton)
> Wildcat's base, North Conway is also a base for a bunch of other mountains.
> A-basin & Loveland the same.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I got lucky and booked a nice place in North Creek, but did it about six months in advance. The town itself is really quiet with not too much to do. Still, I managed to find a great restaurant right in town. North Creek didn't really feel like a ski town so I see your point.


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## BenedictGomez (Jun 11, 2019)

abc said:


> So far, the only way I found it works is by hitting Gore on my way north (to either WF or Killington/Pico), without stopping in the area for the night.



This is what I do virtually every time I ski Gore.  I ski Gore on a Friday or a Saturday, drive to Lake Placid for lodging, and then ski Whiteface the next day.



x10003q said:


> ORDA does not promote Gore. They do not want to lose Lake Placid visits to North Creek.



You really think it's this calculating?   I agree with your analysis 100%, but I always just assumed it was typical government incompetence.  ORDA is a trainwreck.  Were Whiteface privately owned, it could be one of the most successful ski areas in the east.


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## x10003q (Jun 11, 2019)

JimG. said:


> I like the traverses for the very reason most hate them...you have to make an effort to access the good stuff. Same reason I'll sit on that slow ass North Creek triple to ski 46er.
> 
> Same reason I'll bushwack 2-3 miles downstream on a trout stream before I start casting.
> 
> That proposed trail at Burnt will be a scar in those great tree areas.



NYS public dollars funded Burnt Ridge HSQ (6000ft long/1432vert) in 2008  and it should serve more than a small subset of skiers. Adding another trail or 2 on Burnt Ridge would allow more people to use a wonderful lift. Gore is not a private area where ownership can decide to make a 'glade' pod like Burnt Ridge. 

The real issue with Burnt Ridge is the low elevation. Without snowmaking, this area only opens well into the season. Having the lift serve basically 2 trails, Echo, a race trail and Sagamore (besides the connectors) is absurd. The terrain would easily support at least another low blue trail so more people can enjoy the pod.

Harvey linked to a trip report from 2015.
http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Gore-Mountain-NY-2-2-15-Mid-Week-Pow-Magic-tp4054066.html
 If you read the trip report from Feb 2, 2015, you will notice that this was Harvey's first trip of the season into the Burnt Ridge Glades. How is it a Gore regular like Harvey has not visited Burnt Ridge glades until Feb 2nd? The answer of course is that, during many years, there is not enough natural snow for the glades to open. Gore also seems to have Burnt Ridge as a low priority snowmaking area. That means that for much of the early to mid season, there is an expensive HSQ not being used. 
Brilliant!!

There are plans to add a trail or 2 and the plans existed before the HSQ was installed in 2008. Here we are, 11 years later and the trails still don't exist. This is just par for the course at Gore.


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## BenedictGomez (Jun 11, 2019)

For another instance of completely inefficient snowmaking & incompetently poor planning leading to a big waste of resources & a barely usable area, SEE: Lookout Mountain @ Whiteface (also New York State operated).


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## abc (Jun 11, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> This is what I do virtually every time I ski Gore.  I ski Gore on a Friday or a Saturday, drive to Lake Placid for lodging, and then ski Whiteface the next day.
> 
> You really think it's this calculating?   I agree with your analysis 100%, but I always just assumed it was typical government incompetence.  ORDA is a trainwreck.  Were Whiteface privately owned, it could be one of the most successful ski areas in the east.


I don't think it's all that calculating. Lake Placid already has a following, have the infrastructure. So any advertising will result in direct increase in visit. 

Do the same advertising for Gore, it won't result in direct visitation increase due to the lack of comparable infrastructure. It takes a coordinated effort to improve both infrastructure AND advertising. That, maybe what the "train wreck" agency is incapable of. 

Reality being, Gore is a good mountain in its own right. But it's by no means unique. Not like MRG. 

I think its location is unfortunately its Achilles's heel. Gore is not big enough to act as an "anchor". Without other mountains to form a "cluster", it alone just won't cut it. That's my opinion. 

Granted, probably the locals don't want any dramatic increase. A little more, but not a whole lot more...?


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## JimG. (Jun 11, 2019)

x10003q said:


> NYS public dollars funded Burnt Ridge HSQ (6000ft long/1432vert) in 2008  and it should serve more than a small subset of skiers. Adding another trail or 2 on Burnt Ridge would allow more people to use a wonderful lift. Gore is not a private area where ownership can decide to make a 'glade' pod like Burnt Ridge.
> 
> The real issue with Burnt Ridge is the low elevation. Without snowmaking, this area only opens well into the season. Having the lift serve basically 2 trails, Echo, a race trail and Sagamore (besides the connectors) is absurd. The terrain would easily support at least another low blue trail so more people can enjoy the pod.
> 
> ...



Yeah Gore is best mid-Feb through March, although last season (which is not the norm) they had a great start and good November variety. 

I admit I'm selfish regarding proposed BR trails and it sounds like maybe it will be a while before those trails actually exist. Perhaps similar to the proposed refurbishing of Highmount/Belleayre. Whatever the case I'll have to enjoy that area more now and it's a great motivator for me to get there more next season.

I do find it funny how many NJ skiers fret about NYS spending public funds on ski areas. I pay NYS taxes and frankly feel these ski area expenditures are the best return I'll ever get.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 11, 2019)

I used to feel the same about my tax dollars going to Cannon.  Then they went way overboard with Mittersill.  Now I wish they did nothing over there at all.  I mean it's still very fun and much better than most   McSkiarea terrain, but it was better when it was strictly side country.  

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## cdskier (Jun 11, 2019)

JimG. said:


> I do find it funny how many NJ skiers fret about NYS spending public funds on ski areas. I pay NYS taxes and frankly feel these ski area expenditures are the best return I'll ever get.



Hope that wasn't directed at me, because if I was in NY, I'd agree with your stance. I'd much rather see my tax dollars going towards ski areas like the 3 NYS ones than some of the other crap they waste money on. My only "argument" is that a major reason a place like Gore can survive as is, is because it is publicly subsidized. I don't have a problem with it being publicly owned, more-so just pointing out that as is, it wouldn't be viable as a private resort in all likelihood. If they can figure out a way to make it profitable, that would be even better for NYS residents.


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## JimG. (Jun 11, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Hope that wasn't directed at me, because if I was in NY, I'd agree with your stance. I'd much rather see my tax dollars going towards ski areas like the 3 NYS ones than some of the other crap they waste money on. My only "argument" is that a major reason a place like Gore can survive as is, is because it is publicly subsidized. I don't have a problem with it being publicly owned, more-so just pointing out that as is, it wouldn't be viable as a private resort in all likelihood. If they can figure out a way to make it profitable, that would be even better for NYS residents.



It was not. Just a general observation. Frankly, anyone paying taxes in NY or NJ has a right to complain. 

As to what is better for NYS residents remains open to interpretation and personal preferences. 

I have no issues with cutting more blue terrain but maybe they could try to minimize the tree skiing damage. You know, keep it a win win.


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## Harvey (Jun 11, 2019)

X and I go way back I consider him one of my good friends. But we agree to disagree on this topic.

He's right of course, that the state could spend more to market their ski areas and it would probably drive more visits. From  a business POV they probably should.

I'm just saying what I like.

Time marches on and I'll take the improvements as they come. But I really enjoy Gore the way it is and feel no strong urge to bitch about how "backward" Gore is.

FWIW Gore has a ton of blue terrain. The east side is awesome.  Putting in the new trail on Burnt will improve the experience for blue skiers further, and bum me out a little bit.


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## mbedle (Jun 12, 2019)

After reading the two amendments for the Unit Management Plan submitted in 2018, it sure seems like they are pushing really hard to get the ski bowl development moving forward.


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## Scruffy (Jun 12, 2019)

abc said:


> So far, the only way I found it works is by hitting Gore on my way north (to either WF or Killington/Pico), without stopping in the area for the night.



Unless I have you mixed up with someone else, I believe you XC ski as well as Alpine? If so, try skiing, and staying, at Garnet Hill sometime. Ski Garnet one day and then Gore.


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## Harvey (Jun 12, 2019)

Garnet Hill rocks.

55k of piston bully nordic that lies between me and the wilderness.


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## abc (Jun 12, 2019)

Scruffy said:


> Unless I have you mixed up with someone else, I believe you XC ski as well as Alpine? If so, try skiing, and staying, at Garnet Hill sometime. Ski Garnet one day and then Gore.


I do xc ski quite a bit. Thanks for the suggestion. I will try to remember that. 

But I have also have pretty good options near home at the Gunks ( when they have snow). 

I’m not knocking Gore as a mountain. It’s just...if I’m doing an overnighter, I tend to go further north to central or northern Vermont.


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