# 2015/16 Snow tire thread



## wa-loaf (Sep 12, 2015)

For the last few years I've been using General Altimax Arctic snows and have been very happy with them.

Any reason I shouldn't just get a new set? Or am I missing out on something new?


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## marcski (Sep 12, 2015)

Interesting. I, too, have been running the General Altimax. While I've been generally happy, I was thinking I may be able to find something better.  What about the Nokian Hakkapellittas?


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## ScottySkis (Sep 12, 2015)

What good tire for low clearance Nissan Altima 2007


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## andrec10 (Sep 12, 2015)

marcski said:


> Interesting. I, too, have been running the General Altimax. While I've been generally happy, I was thinking I may be able to find something better.  What about the Nokian Hakkapellittas?



I am too looking at Nokian's. Sucks is that we are due for 3 sets of snows....argh.


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## dlague (Sep 12, 2015)

Who needs snow tires?  All seasons work for me


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## marcski (Sep 12, 2015)

dlague said:


> Who needs snow tires?  All seasons work for me


This has been discussed ad nauseam in the past.  Snow tires are leaps and bounds better handling in winter. Period.


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## moresnow (Sep 12, 2015)

dlague said:


> Who needs snow tires?  All seasons work for me



I like the way you think. Keeps the lift lines shorter.


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## octopus (Sep 12, 2015)

BLIZZAK!   maybe i just like the name, but they seem to work pretty well on the diesel golf.


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## yeggous (Sep 12, 2015)

I've sported all-seasons on my truck and SUV for my entire life. This year I'm thinking about switching to Michelin X-Ice 2s.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 12, 2015)

marcski said:


> Interesting. I, too, have been running the General Altimax. While I've been generally happy, I was thinking I may be able to find something better.  What about the Nokian Hakkapellittas?



They seem to be the best option, but also the most expensive.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2015)

I've found the General Altimax to be plenty fine.  I had some Haks on an old Honda years ago and they were great.  I've also had Firestone winterforce and while the grip was fine, they got appreciably louder than other snows over time.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2015)

marcski said:


> This has been discussed ad nauseam in the past.  Snow tires are leaps and bounds better handling in winter. Period.



+1

Not even worth debating.


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## JDMRoma (Sep 12, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I've sported all-seasons on my truck and SUV for my entire life. This year I'm thinking about switching to Michelin X-Ice 2s.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



I've been running Michelins for years on Matrix's. Not sure you can get x2s anymore. I have the Xi3s now and love them. Best prices were from TireRack


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## Puck it (Sep 12, 2015)

dlague said:


> Who needs snow tires?  All seasons work for me


The FJ laughs in the face of snow tires!!!!!


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## andrec10 (Sep 12, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I've sported all-seasons on my truck and SUV for my entire life. This year I'm thinking about switching to Michelin X-Ice 2s.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app




They don't make the X-Ice2's anymore. They are X-Ice3's.


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## yeggous (Sep 12, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> They don't make the X-Ice2's anymore. They are X-Ice3's.



How about X-Ice Xi2?

http://tires2.costco.com/product.aspx?ItemNo=693063&SearchID=86e03dc4-ac08-4cec-8ac0-11545592333d


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## JDMRoma (Sep 13, 2015)

yeggous said:


> How about X-Ice Xi2?
> 
> http://tires2.costco.com/product.aspx?ItemNo=693063&SearchID=86e03dc4-ac08-4cec-8ac0-11545592333d
> 
> ...



If Costco is selling Xi2s they could be old stock stuck in their warehouse for a few years. 
Unless they haven't updated the website and your really buying Xi3s

I'd ask before buying 


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## billski (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> The FJ laughs in the face of snow tires!!!!!



Do you have an FJ?   How is it on windblown hardpack and ice?


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## billski (Sep 13, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> I am too looking at Nokian's. Sucks is that we are due for 3 sets of snows....argh.


  One of my ski buds has been through at least three sets of Nokians on his Audi A4 which is about 12 years old.  He swears by them.


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## ALLSKIING (Sep 13, 2015)

How many miles are you guys getting on them. I drive a ton and tow a lot as well. For those reasons I always went with AT tires but would prefer snows for winter.


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## xwhaler (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> The FJ laughs in the face of snow tires!!!!!



You have the Toyo A/Ts right?  When the H/Ts that were on the Tundra when I bought it wear a bit more I will definitely be getting some All Terrains.


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## billski (Sep 13, 2015)

We have Blizzaks on four cars in the family.   I'm gonna guess we average about 25K miles over three years for each car.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

25K is what I target for snows as well, which is two 5 month seasons - November 1st to April 1st.


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## billski (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> 25K is what I target for snows as well, which is two 5 month seasons - November 1st to April 1st.


Wow, you put a lot of miles on an annual basis- I'm estimating 25k per year per vehicle?


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

Over 30.  I've got 101k on my current ride which I bought new in July of 2012.


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## dlague (Sep 13, 2015)

moresnow said:


> I like the way you think. Keeps the lift lines shorter.





marcski said:


> This has been discussed ad nauseam in the past.  Snow tires are leaps and bounds better handling in winter. Period.



Pussies that are afraid to drive in snow keep lift line shorter - we go no matter what conditions are like.

My SUV does not need winter tires.  All seasons have done the job for me  all of my life even when i did not have a truck.  Just have to know how to drive in the winter.  Only conditions that suck are freezing rain on cleared roads then again it does not really matter what tire you have.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

You can turn a Phillips screw with a flat head driver as well......


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## Puck it (Sep 13, 2015)

billski said:


> Do you have an FJ?   How is it on windblown hardpack and ice?


it laughs in its face.


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## Puck it (Sep 13, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> You have the Toyo A/Ts right?  When the H/Ts that were on the Tundra when I bought it wear a bit more I will definitely be getting some All Terrains.


Yes A/T on it now, came with all seasons Grandtreks. They were better in sand then the snow.


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## Puck it (Sep 13, 2015)

dlague said:


> Pussies that are afraid to drive in snow keep lift line shorter - we go no matter what conditions are like.
> 
> My SUV does not need winter tires.  All seasons have done the job for me  all of my life even when i did not have a truck.  Just have to know how to drive in the winter.  Only conditions that suck are freezing rain on cleared roads then again it does not really matter what tire you have.


I agree. I have never run snows even when I had my 740i. Just to need to know the car and conditions n


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## xwhaler (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Yes A/T on it now, came with all seasons Grandtreks. They were better in sand then the snow.



The Dunlop Grandtreks that are OEM on Toyota trucks are awful in the snow.  Had them on my Tacoma and was so happy when I replaced with Firestone A/Ts


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## wa-loaf (Sep 13, 2015)

dlague said:


> Pussies that are afraid to drive in snow keep lift line shorter - we go no matter what conditions are like.
> 
> My SUV does not need winter tires.  All seasons have done the job for me  all of my life even when i did not have a truck.  Just have to know how to drive in the winter.  Only conditions that suck are freezing rain on cleared roads then again it does not really matter what tire you have.





Puck it said:


> I agree. I have never run snows even when I had my 740i. Just to need to know the car and conditions n




Then why participate in a thread about snow tires? Or do you guys just want to tell us how much better you think you can drive than the rest of us?


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> I agree. I have never run snows even when I had my 740i. Just to need to know the car and conditions n



Surprised to read this from an engineer.

My FWD car with snows handles vastly better in the snow than my old A6 or Explorer with all seasons.  

The way I see it, using snows just prolongs the life of my summer tires.  It costs me $40 in the fall and $40 in the spring for swapping.  $40 is a tank of gas.  Small price to pay for the improved performance.


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## yeggous (Sep 13, 2015)

JDMRoma said:


> If Costco is selling Xi2s they could be old stock stuck in their warehouse for a few years.
> Unless they haven't updated the website and your really buying Xi3s
> 
> I'd ask before buying
> ...



I am confused. Michelin's website list the Xi2 as the latest generation.

http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/products/latitude-xice-xi2.html


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## JDMRoma (Sep 13, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I am confused. Michelin's website list the Xi2 as the latest generation.
> 
> http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/products/latitude-xice-xi2.html
> 
> ...



Looks like the only make the Xi2s for SUVs and light trucks. They discontinued them for cars and switched to the Xi3s.... My bad !
They're great tires !


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## drjeff (Sep 13, 2015)

Saying that real snow tires are as good as all seasons in the snow is the equivalent of saying that mid fat all mountain skis are as good in powder as a fully rockered 110+ wide powder ski -you can make it work, but you don't realize how much better the better option is until you try it!


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 13, 2015)

Currently running the studded hakkapellita (sp?) 7's on my outback, they have 54,000 miles on them and are just about spent. Not so much because of treadwear, but because I should've gotten an alignment sooner and the inside of the tire is worn. The studs are completely worn at this point, but I've been holding out until late next month to get the hakkapellita 8's.

Their on snow performance is not as good as the blizzaks, even with the studs, but the ice performance is much better. And considering that I could get 60k out of the tire if I ensured that I could keep my wheels aligned, I think it's a better tire.


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## dlague (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> I agree. I have never run snows even when I had my 740i. Just to need to know the car and conditions n



My wife uses all season tires on her Volvo an she never has problems.  Then again I grew up on VT and she in NH and we are accustom to snow conditions.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

dlague said:


> My wife uses all season tires on her Volvo an she never has problems.  Then again I grew up on VT and she in NH and we are accustom to snow conditions.



I grew up driving in VT too.  You're missing the point.  

Like I said, you can turn a Phillips screw with a flat head driver.  Doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.

Or as Dr Jeff said, you can ski a midfat in powder, but it doesn't come remotely close to performing as well a 110 waist rockered ski.


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## dlague (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I grew up driving in VT too.  You're missing the point.
> 
> Like I said, you can turn a Phillips screw with a flat head driver.  Doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.
> 
> Or as Dr Jeff said, you can ski a midfat in powder, but it doesn't come remotely close to performing as well a 110 waist rockered ski.



I get it but I just never had issues in the snow so never bothered with spending money on winter tires.  Like wise I don't ever ski with a fat ski since I do not want to spend money on gear I barely use.  Its ok - To each there own.  

BTW we were at Bolton Valley a couple of years ago during a huge snow storm and there were cars all over the place I drive right past them.  That is a steep road in spots.  So I say my SUV is the right tool for winter.  Driving the wrong tool may be the real issue!


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

So, you've never owned a set of snow tires.  Got it


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2015)

Last season during one of the better snowstorms I was changing out of my ski boots in the parking lot at the end of the day. This was a level parking lot mind you. The snow was up to the bottom of my windows, had to dig out a bit just to get into the car. The ski area had employees walking around the parking shoveling out cars that couldn't even get out of their parking spot on a flat surface. They asked me if I though I needed help. I said no because I had AWD with 4 snow tires (Blizzaks). They said most of these people don't even have decent tires on their cars & walked on. Put my shoes on, put the car in reverse & backed out like there was nothing there.

There was even more excitement later but I won't get into that.


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## Puck it (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> So, you've never owned a set of snow tires.  Got it


I have never a set either and I grew up in NNY.  God's Country.  The only time I switched tires was on my X5 from the summer tires to all seasons tires.  The summer tires do suck in the cold.  Compound gets hard as a rock.


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## marcski (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> I have never a set either and I grew up in NNY.  God's Country.  The only time I switched tires was on my X5 from the summer tires to all seasons tires.  The summer tires do suck in the cold.  Compound gets hard as a rock.


Snow tire compounds stay more pliable in cold weather than all seasons too.


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## yeggous (Sep 13, 2015)

Where does everyone buy their tires? In my experience Costco has been hard to beat.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 13, 2015)

Pretty much all of us grew up in northern states. I took my frigging driving test in a snowstorm and drove around on bald tires through most of HS. Just because I can drive in those conditions doesn't mean I want to now. Same reason I like having different skis for different occasions.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> I have never a set either and I grew up in NNY



Maybe both you and dlague should try owning a set before arguing against them no?


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> Pretty much all of us grew up in northern states. I took my frigging driving test in a snowstorm and drove around on bald tires through most of HS. Just because I can drive in those conditions doesn't mean I want to now. Same reason I like having different skis for different occasions.



Bingo

I could see the argument against owning snows if there was a substantial financial benefit to sticking with All Seasons, but there isn't.  

As is being proven here in this thread (again for like the 40th snow tire thread since AZ started); the people who argue against owning snows have never had them.


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## ScottySkis (Sep 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Bingo
> 
> I could see the argument against owning snows if there was a substantial financial benefit to sticking with All Seasons, but there isn't.
> 
> As is being proven here in this thread (again for like the 40th snow tire thread since AZ started); the people who argue against owning snows have never had them.



I love them for getting home  they dont plaow a kotswhere they don't allow much. Plowing sucks when your commute goes through 3 rural county's


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## Puck it (Sep 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Maybe both you and dlague should try owning a set before arguing against them no?


Why waste the money if I don't need them?


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## hammer (Sep 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Bingo
> 
> I could see the argument against owning snows if there was a substantial financial benefit to sticking with All Seasons, but there isn't.
> 
> As is being proven here in this thread (again for like the 40th snow tire thread since AZ started); the people who argue against owning snows have never had them.



I'm sure they are better but I'd rather not have my rims beat up with swapping tires twice a year.  Steel wheels are not easy to find for Volvos and sorry but I don't want a TPS light blaring at me for several months a year.

I manage fine with AWD and all-seasons and I don't go out if the roads are too bad.

Personal preference...

If there's any car I'd get snows for it would be my daughter's Ford Focus.  That little light car is pretty bad in the snow with AWD tires.

I'll be replacing my tires this fall, not sure what I will get yet.  The Continentals I've been running with were better in the snow than the OEM Michelins (most OEM tires are crap anymore) but I had an issue with an out of round tire that I just could not get balanced quite right.


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## ALLSKIING (Sep 14, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Why waste the money if I don't need them?



Your running AT tires though. Not as good as snow tires but way better the ast.


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## Puck it (Sep 14, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> Your running AT tires though. Not as good as snow tires but way better the ast.


Yes, I do on the FJ for off roading.  The original OEM's for the first 50K were all season Grandtreks and had no problems either.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Why waste the money if I don't need them?



$80 a year is a few days worth of apres beers.

We're not talking about a lot of money.

At least you're on ATs.  That's reasonable.  I've never found an All Season that's been even close to as good as snows.


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## marcski (Sep 14, 2015)

hammer said:


> I'm sure they are better but I'd rather not have my rims beat up with swapping tires twice a year.  Steel wheels are not easy to find for Volvos and sorry but I don't want a TPS light blaring at me for several months a year.
> 
> I manage fine with AWD and all-seasons and I don't go out if the roads are too bad.
> 
> ...


One week after I got my car, I bought a set of very lightly used OEM original alloy wheels in just about perfect condition (1" smaller than my upgraded alloys that came with my car, which is ideal for snows) with General Altimax snows that had one season on them for $500.  No swapping tires on and off rims. You can barely buy new tires for 500 let alone alloy rims.  It was like I got the rims for free and the snows were great last winter. I will get a new set of snows this fall.


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## HD333 (Sep 14, 2015)

marcski said:


> One week after I got my car, I bought a set of very lightly used OEM original alloy wheels in just about perfect condition (1" smaller than my upgraded alloys that came with my car, which is ideal for snows) with General Altimax snows that had one season on them for $500.  No swapping tires on and off rims. You can barely buy new tires for 500 let alone alloy rims.  It was like I got the rims for free and the snows were great last winter. I will get a new set of snows this fall.



I am trying to do exactly this for the wife's new ride and I am not having much luck. 

Anyone with a lead on some rims/tires for a 328x drive please share the info. 


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## dlague (Sep 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> $80 a year is a few days worth of apres beers.
> 
> We're not talking about a lot of money.
> 
> At least you're on ATs.  That's reasonable.  I've never found an All Season that's been even close to as good as snows.



Plus the cost of the tires!  Some of the tires mentioned on this thread are not cheap.  For my truck - I would need 4 at around $160 each and that is the low end for tire size 265/50R20.  Part of the reason I have good traction is due to the weight of my truck and the width of the tire.  It also is AWD with traction control that works very well.  The right tool for winter!  The all season tires I use are designed to reduce hydroplaning when wet or slushy.

Description of my tires

All-Season Performance

Staggered circumferential grooves, curvilinear blades, and see-through grooves help enhance forward and lateral traction, and enhance grip in rain and snow.


Funny thing about this thread, I was showing it to my wife and all of a sudden she is thinking Snow Tires - What?  Her logic, she needs new tires and we plan on trading it in in the spring so with that in mind, rather than buying all season, go with winters and then trade it in around April.  

Discliamer:  I have to admit, NH does a phenomenal job clearing the highways (for the most part).  Getting to Cannon is easy right off the highway and we live about 1.5 miles from the highway on a flat road.  My wife works from home most of the time so my truck is our real recreational work vehicle.


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## Puck it (Sep 14, 2015)

Good siping on the tire is what make it work in snow.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2015)

dlague said:


> Plus the cost of the tires! .



As mentioned prior.  It ends up prolonging the life of your summer tires.  Over time, the only added cost is the swapping.  If you like your car and buy the same model again, the winter steel wheels (or alloys if you want something nice) are usable again.

Your V8 monstrosity pisses away gas and money too.  So, I guess it's a matter of where you don't mind spending it.  It's cool that you don't want to go that route, but to argue against something you've never tried???  That's like saying Long Horn Steakhouse is a good as Ruth Chris when you've never been.  That's all I'm saying.



Puck it said:


> Good siping on the tire is what make it work in snow.



And the compound of the rubber.  You experienced the same with summer tires.


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## Puck it (Sep 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> And the compound of the rubber.  You experienced the same with summer tires.


Without saying.


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## marcski (Sep 14, 2015)

HD333 said:


> I am trying to do exactly this for the wife's new ride and I am not having much luck.
> 
> Anyone with a lead on some rims/tires for a 328x drive please share the info.
> 
> ...


Go find some beemer forums and look at the classified threads. That's how I found mine. The guy lived in PA....we met half way in south central jersey about 60 miles for each of us.


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 14, 2015)

Back to the OP, I had run Micheline Xi-2's in the past and really liked them. I am due for some snows and will probably grab the Xi-3's if I can find them cheaper locally. Tire rack has them but a $70 shipping charge is painful. Costco has them with a $70 off mail in rebate.


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## Puck it (Sep 14, 2015)

marcski said:


> Go find some beemer forums and look at the classified threads. That's how I found mine. The guy lived in PA....we met half way in south central jersey about 60 miles for each of us.


That is how I found mine for the X5 exactly.  Brand new rims and tires for like $500.  Guy was cleaning out his garage.


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## ALLSKIING (Sep 14, 2015)

dlague said:


> Plus the cost of the tires!  Some of the tires mentioned on this thread are not cheap.  For my truck - I would need 4 at around $160 each and that is the low end for tire size 265/50R20.  Part of the reason I have good traction is due to the weight of my truck and the width of the tire.  It also is AWD with traction control that works very well.  The right tool for winter!  The all season tires I use are designed to reduce hydroplaning when wet or slushy.
> 
> Description of my tires
> 
> ...



You don't want wide low profile tires like 265 50's for the snow. More side wall is want you want.


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## dlague (Sep 14, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> You don't want wide low profile tires like 265 50's for the snow. More side wall is want you want.



Been driving on the same size tire for 7 years and it has never been a problem.  It is the size tire that came with it.  Plus if you have more than 6 inches of snow it does not matter.  Then again, I do not recall the highway ever having more than 6 inches of snow on it even during the biggest storms.


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## dlague (Sep 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> As mentioned prior.  It ends up prolonging the life of your summer tires.  Over time, the only added cost is the swapping.  If you like your car and buy the same model again, the winter steel wheels (or alloys if you want something nice) are usable again.
> 
> Your V8 monstrosity pisses away gas and money too.  So, I guess it's a matter of where you don't mind spending it.  It's cool that you don't want to go that route, but to argue against something you've never tried???  That's like saying Long Horn Steakhouse is a good as Ruth Chris when you've never been.  That's all I'm saying.
> 
> ...



I am more of a Morton's guy!


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## Puck it (Sep 14, 2015)

dlague said:


> I am more of a Morton's guy!


Capital Grill here!!!!


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## Cornhead (Sep 14, 2015)

Nothing but Blizzaks here, three different vehicles, no complaints. IMHO almost worn out snows perform better than most new all season tires. Micheline all seasons are the worst. Hard rubber compound? They do have a high mileage warranty.

My car, Subaru WRX, came from the factory with Summer shoes. It was either swap them for all season, or dedicated snows. I like having two sets. My steel rims are 1" less diameter, 16". They are also narrower. The sidewalls of my snows are much higher than my low profile Summer tires. The outside diameter is the same, so no speedometer error. The higher sidewalls act as shock absorbers for typical shitty Winter roads. 

I'm on my second set of snows on this car, original tires should be good for at least 2 more years. My rims are still in great shape too, seeing only Spring/Summer/Fall.


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## HD333 (Sep 14, 2015)

Puck it said:


> That is how I found mine for the X5 exactly.  Brand new rims and tires for like $500.  Guy was cleaning out his garage.



That is what I have been trying to do. Craigslist is a crap shoot, nobody knows what model the wheels they are selling will fit on. 
May have found some for $500 locally just gotta go try them on for size. 




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## bigbog (Sep 14, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Good siping on the tire is what make it work in snow.



+  a little more narrow, diagonal tread.  Blizzaks are running 1st but beginning to shop...


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## marcski (Sep 14, 2015)

HD333 said:


> That is what I have been trying to do. Craigslist is a crap shoot, nobody knows what model the wheels they are selling will fit on.
> May have found some for $500 locally just gotta go try them on for size.
> 
> 
> ...


In my experience, the car enthusiast forums will be far better than Craigslist.


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## octopus (Sep 14, 2015)

i found my tires and rims on craigsist, made sure the rims fit before i went to see them. used blizzaks on alloy rims for $400, seems good to me.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 15, 2015)

HD333 said:


> That is what I have been trying to do. Craigslist is a crap shoot, nobody knows what model the wheels they are selling will fit on.
> May have found some for $500 locally just gotta go try them on for size.
> 
> 
> ...





octopus said:


> i found my tires and rims on craigsist, made sure the rims fit before i went to see them. used blizzaks on alloy rims for $400, seems good to me.




If you know the bolt pattern and wheel offset your car requires then you should be all set. If the seller doesn't know what they have, move on. I got lucky there is a VW dealer in MA that buys up the steel wheels from the port (apparently a lot of the alloys get put on when the cars arrive) and sells a set of 4 for $200.


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## Sky (Sep 17, 2015)

I will be selling a set of four Blizzaks (sp?) soon.  Great shape.  Kept them balanced and aligned....on in Dec...off in early April.  Tons of tread.

We sold the car (donated actually).  Ill post the size here tonight.


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## Geoff (Sep 19, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Good siping on the tire is what make it work in snow.



Actually, siping is what makes a tire perform well on black ice.  The little cuts in the tire channel away the water layer.  Ice at subzero isn't all that slippery.  It's the water layer at near-freezing temperatures that gives it such a low coefficient of friction.

Grip in deeper snow requires much wider gaps than the little siping cuts that channel away the water.   People in the west don't see much black ice.  An SUV with A/T tires works fine most of the time.


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## Geoff (Sep 19, 2015)

I've run studded Nokians on my SUVs for years and Nokian studless friction tires on my VW GTIs.  I tried the Blizzak WS-50 on my 2007 GTI.  The grip was amazing but that grip went to hell at 12,000 miles when the outer rubber layer wore out.  I went back to Nokian.

I'm planning to put the Nokian Hakkapelitta R2 on my Outback in November.  The TPMS on the Outback is really annoying.  The senders are over $200 for a set of four no matter how hard I internet shop it.  You have to reprogram the car any time you change senders.  The ODB-II gizmo to reprogram as a DIY is another couple hundred bucks.   When I totaled up what cheap alloys, TPMS, and the tires would cost and asked around how much a tire shop would charge to swap winters & summers, I concluded that I'm just going to pay for a mount/balance every 6 months.


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## Cornhead (Sep 19, 2015)

Geoff said:


> I've run studded Nokians on my SUVs for years and Nokian studless friction tires on my VW GTIs.  I tried the Blizzak WS-50 on my 2007 GTI.  The grip was amazing but that grip went to hell at 12,000 miles when the outer rubber layer wore out.  I went back to Nokian.
> 
> I'm planning to put the Nokian Hakkapelitta R2 on my Outback in November.  The TPMS on the Outback is really annoying.  The senders are over $200 for a set of four no matter how hard I internet shop it.  You have to reprogram the car any time you change senders.  The ODB-II gizmo to reprogram as a DIY is another couple hundred bucks.   When I totaled up what cheap alloys, TPMS, and the tires would cost and asked around how much a tire shop would charge to swap winters & summers, I concluded that I'm just going to pay for a mount/balance every 6 months.



I was lucky, when I bought my WRX you were still allowed to buy snows mounted on steelies without sensors from Tirerack. I was also able to have the second set of snows mounted at my local shop sans sensors. Hopefully as long as they're not on the car when the tires are changed I'll be able to continue getting snows mounted without sensors. I wouldn't mind having them on the snows, but it is a lot less hassle and expense not.


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## bigbog (Sep 19, 2015)

Here's just one website devoted to tires & wheels...plenty others like this one.

http://www.hubcaphaven.com/


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## andrec10 (Sep 20, 2015)

Geoff said:


> I've run studded Nokians on my SUVs for years and Nokian studless friction tires on my VW GTIs.  I tried the Blizzak WS-50 on my 2007 GTI.  The grip was amazing but that grip went to hell at 12,000 miles when the outer rubber layer wore out.  I went back to Nokian.
> 
> I'm planning to put the Nokian Hakkapelitta R2 on my Outback in November.  The TPMS on the Outback is really annoying.  The senders are over $200 for a set of four no matter how hard I internet shop it.  You have to reprogram the car any time you change senders.  The ODB-II gizmo to reprogram as a DIY is another couple hundred bucks.   When I totaled up what cheap alloys, TPMS, and the tires would cost and asked around how much a tire shop would charge to swap winters & summers, I concluded that I'm just going to pay for a mount/balance every 6 months.



Sounds like you are happy with the Nokians. Had the Michelin X-Ice 2's, but once they get below 50% wear, they are not great in snow. Are the Nokian's great/good in snow closer to end of life? Need to buy 3 sets of snows for this winter.


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## skifree (Oct 2, 2015)

hammer said:


> I'm sure they are better but I'd rather not have my rims beat up with swapping tires twice a year.  Steel wheels are not easy to find for Volvos and sorry but I don't want a TPS light blaring at me for several months a year.
> 
> I manage fine with AWD and all-seasons and I don't go out if the roads are too bad.
> 
> ...



My daughters Focus sucked in the snow till i put blizzaks on it. thing is a tank in the snow now.


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## Geoff (Oct 3, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> Sounds like you are happy with the Nokians. Had the Michelin X-Ice 2's, but once they get below 50% wear, they are not great in snow. Are the Nokian's great/good in snow closer to end of life? Need to buy 3 sets of snows for this winter.



I have personal experience with the studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta SUV, the Hakka Q, the Hakka R, and the Blizzak WS-50.   I was very unhappy with the Blizzak lifespan.  It was an amazing tire for 12,000 miles and quickly became useless.  The Hakka Q and Hakka R held up very well.   I've read that the WS-80 has gotten better for tire wear.  I'm going to stick with what I know and buy the R2.

Vianor has their sale next week from Oct 5th through Columbus Day.   Free mounting if you do it before November 1.  I haven't call yet for pricing.  They're mostly Vermont with a few stores in very upstate NY, NH, and Mass.  They also have "partners" around New England and New York but I'm not sure if those participate in the sale.   

Vianor link with a store & partner locator: http://vianor.us/


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