# 2010 Subaru Outback



## campgottagopee (Oct 16, 2009)

Few peeps on here don't care for the all new Outback, well, some people think they're pretty darn good.

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/112_0912_2010_suv_of_the_year_winner/index.html


Note: 2009 Motor Trends SUV of the year was the Subaru Forester------good stuff from Subie!!!


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## deadheadskier (Oct 16, 2009)

moving along

:lol:


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## campgottagopee (Oct 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> moving along
> 
> :lol:



I know---it's get boring when one single manufacturer dominates the field of play


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## billski (Oct 16, 2009)

Me heart my 83 Subaru GL Wagon.  No fancy names, it just worked (except for the CV boots that split every 20K miles)






I drank the Ski car cool-aid...


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## Glenn (Oct 16, 2009)

These classifications confuse me. Subaru makes wagons and cars....that are slighly "lifted". I hardly consider them "SUVs". To me, an SUV is something more truckish, that can tow more thank 2k lbs. Furthermore, things like the RAV4, Highlander ect aren't really SUVs either. Anything built on car platform is crossover IMHO. But that's just me.


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## Edd (Oct 16, 2009)

Wow.  That is very good for Subaru, and very bad for me getting the deal I'd like on an Outback.


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## campgottagopee (Oct 16, 2009)

Edd said:


> Wow.  That is very good for Subaru, and very bad for me getting the deal I'd like on an Outback.



In their class Subie is very competitively priced----you wont find rebates but you will find subvented apr's that are great right now. Don't think of the "deal" or you'll drive yourself nuts. Good luck


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## Marc (Oct 16, 2009)

*sigh*

And the styling travesties continue.  Srsly, they made the best looking Imprezza's for two years (04-05) and then decided they looked too good and beat the shiat out of them with the ugly stick.  The last gen Outbacks looked OK.  God forbid they continue that trend.  Not that I'm big on styling, but... man.  Simple, understated is what I like.  Not like someone grabbed the car on either side and yanked the corner of the headlights back toward the fenders.  Like when the alien in Men In Black puts on the Edgar skin suit and yanks taught the skin on his head.


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## campgottagopee (Oct 16, 2009)

Marc said:


> *sigh*
> 
> And the styling travesties continue.  Srsly, they made the best looking Imprezza's for two years (04-05) and then decided they looked too good and beat the shiat out of them with the ugly stick.  The last gen Outbacks looked OK.  God forbid they continue that trend.  Not that I'm big on styling, but... man.  Simple, understated is what I like.  Not like someone grabbed the car on either side and yanked the corner of the headlights back toward the fenders.  *Like when the alien in Men In Black puts on the Edgar skin suit and yanks taught the skin on his head.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Friggin lmfao


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## riverc0il (Oct 16, 2009)

The tag line on that opening picture says it all "Find the hidden SUV". Pity Subaru does not make wagons any more....


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## Marc (Oct 16, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> The tag line on that opening picture says it all "Find the hidden SUV". Pity Subaru does not make wagons any more....



Srsly.  Why'd they drop the Legacy wagon?  That was boneheaded, Subaru.


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## riverc0il (Oct 17, 2009)

Marc said:


> Srsly.  Why'd they drop the Legacy wagon?  That was boneheaded, Subaru.


Why are they dropping wagons PERIOD! Subaru has always been known as a maker of wagons. Not big SUVs (Tribeca), Mid-sized SUVs (Forester), and Small-sized SUVs (Outback). Even the Forester was once a wagon with a lot of head room (to my eyes at least). And of course, the Impreza was once a mini-wagon and is now 100% hatchback. I don't understand why the company that defined wagons now does not have a single legitimate wagon in their catalog. Color me bitter because for the past four years, I always said "my next vehicle is going to be a new Subaru Wagon." I am not buying used for our next vehicle and I can no longer buy Subaru if I want a Wagon.

Sorry, broken record on this issue, it is just really sad how Subaru pandered to the SUV (oh, sorry, "Crossover") market. At least they could have retained a SINGLE wagon model for more modest eyes and uses (and a little more MPG, thanks!). And that is another thing... if you want a SUV, but an F'ing SUV! My goodness, we wouldn't want to let the Jones's see you in a full sized SUV these days. That is SO early 00s and SO bad for the environment. Oh wait, what do cross overs get for MPG? Laughable.


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## campgottagopee (Oct 17, 2009)

Marc said:


> Srsly.  Why'd they drop the Legacy wagon?  That was boneheaded, Subaru.



It's really quite simple---slow seller=incentives to move them=less profit for Mr. Car Builder

Right now, and for the past vouple years, Subie is selling every car they build at quite an incredible pace with NO incentives (rebates), VERY impressive in todays market. Honestly, other than here, I can't remeber the last time somebody came in looking for the Legacy  Wagon .......bottom line some peeps just can't deal with change. :smile:


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## jaja111 (Oct 17, 2009)

I have an '09 Outback XT, and it ain't nothing other than a wagon. SUV my ass. If I wanted an "SUV" I would have bought a late '70's Bronco.

I think they label these SUV's for meeting CAFE standards, as, IIRC, SUV's don't have to maintain the same fuel mileage requirements (which are made difficult to achieve with Sub's AWD)..... or something along those lines. My sales rep at the dealer in July actually admitted this. I looked at him funny when he said the Outback was an SUV, and he just shook his head with his hands up saying "I dunno...I just sell the damn things and it looks like a damn wagon to me." Good thing I love station wagons - and Subaru discontinued putting WRX motors and sticks in Outbacks leaving me with one of the last ones around with a $3k rebate so they could off them in prep for the 2010 bloated CVT mobiles.


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## Edd (Oct 17, 2009)

I love my Legacy wagon.  If they made new ones I would be at a dealership buying one right this second.  

Camp, are you saying that the Legacy sedan sold better than the wagon?  That's tough to believe considering the Subaru crowd.  I can see Joe American avoiding the wagon (why I just can't f***ing understand) but Subaru people strike me as practical.

I think all cars should be wagons.  They are too expensive to not make them 100% useful.

I suggest Subaru come out with a new model.  Call it the "Wagon".  Stick it on an Impreza platform and make it at least as roomy as the Hyundai Elantra Touring.  Not cramped like the current Impreza hatchback.  Normal sized tires, normal ground clearance, as aerodynamic as possible while still being a wagon.  A full on practicality assault, screw style. AWD, of course.  Charge $18000 and I'll buy it tomorrow.


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## campgottagopee (Oct 17, 2009)

Yes, the legacy sedan was a better "seller" than the wagon. We saw people migrating away from the wagon to the outback in 2007 when they introduced the outback basic---same $$$ as the legacy wagon and a "percieved" better/bigger value.


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## wa-loaf (Oct 28, 2009)

So I've seen a few of these on the road now. You know those photo distortion programs where you can stretch out some ones face? That's what the new Outback looks like to me.


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## skijay (Oct 31, 2009)

Another positive note about a Subaru.  They are cheap to insure.  Mine dropped when I went from a 2003 Saturn VUE to the 09 Forester.  The reasons I was given:  safety & low theft.  

The 09 Outback was about $50 a year cheaper than the 09 Forester to insure.


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## Philpug (Nov 1, 2009)

I drove a new 10 OB the other day, while it is a better car, it is not a better Subaru and like my Legacy thread it will be a sales success. It is big, too big for me, but right for Americans. Seats, seat bottoms felt short, I think they took 2" off the seat bottom to show more leg room on paper. Pass seat position is higher than the Forester, which is good. I am not sold on the electronic E-brake...err parking brake. I kinda liked the 1-6 on the dash to tell me what gear I was in, not that I don't feel revs w/ speed, I thought this was interesting. Shifter felt less numb than previous Subies but still not there, a short shift kit could help. In todays age, why does Subaru still have the center seatbelt coming from the ceiling, it should be in the seatback. Volvo had been doing this for 20 years. I would miss the big sunroof of the last generation too.


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## skijay (Nov 9, 2009)

Today's shuttle vehicle was the 10 OB w/ manual transmission.  I do have to say I liked the OB.  That thing has got balls! I guess I should have followed advice I got on the Subi forums - buy the Forester with the manual tranny!


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## Glenn (Nov 10, 2009)

skijay said:


> Another positive note about a Subaru.



Unless you try to insure a WRX. :lol:


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## koreshot (Nov 10, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Unless you try to insure a WRX. :lol:



Yeah and if you own the 2008 model you would first have to sell it to get the 2009/10... since the 2008 was a soft tippy tub for the masses.


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## Marc (Nov 10, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Unless you try to insure a WRX. :lol:



My '04 WRX that I recently bought was only $200 more per year than the '99 Outback I owned before it.


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## koreshot (Nov 11, 2009)

Marc said:


> My '04 WRX that I recently bought.



(Note to self: add Marc to my people to kill list)


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## wa-loaf (Nov 11, 2009)

koreshot said:


> (Note to self: add Marc to my people to kill list)



Wasn't he already there? Maybe just move him up ...


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 11, 2009)

looks like subie missed the boat on the new roof racks...dont look like you can attach aftermarket thule or yak load bars with a footpack...that really limits what you can put up top.....


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## koreshot (Nov 11, 2009)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> looks like subie missed the boat on the new roof racks...dont look like you can attach aftermarket thule or yak load bars with a footpack...that really limits what you can put up top.....




Really?  I thought that the new Outback came with fold-away cross bars to reduce noise and save fuel.  Pretty smooth if you ask me.  Does the thule/yak stuff not attach to the fancy new cross bars?


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## wa-loaf (Nov 11, 2009)

koreshot said:


> Really?  I thought that the new Outback came with fold-away cross bars to reduce noise and save fuel.  Pretty smooth if you ask me.  Does the thule/yak stuff not attach to the fancy new cross bars?



Yes, but those are limited by weight. You can usually put a lot more on top if using the footpacks.


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## koreshot (Nov 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Yes, but those are limited by weight. You can usually put a lot more on top if using the footpacks.




I thought virtually all Subie wagon/crossover/suvs came with a builtin roof rack, so the only difference is that the new Outback has the cool fold-away ones.  So what you guys are saying is that the new fold-aways specifically don't allow the foot packs because of their design?  That is a bummer.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 11, 2009)

yes, you can use thule or yak accessories to attach directly to the new subie load bars (cross bars), but I like to use the Thule load bars with footpak as it 1. will hold more weight and you can get the extended load bars to fit more up top...with the current subie set up you could prob get 2 bikes up there, with thule or yak loadbars and footpak, you could get 4 bikes and a kayak or a cargo box and a bike...the new subie roof rack is very limititing.....personally, i dont trust factory load bars....my volvo xc70 had the bars going down the length of the car where i attached my footpak and thule loadbars...thats not possible with the new subie set up,,,you are stuck with what they gave you....


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## Philpug (Nov 17, 2009)

Just ordered new car, bye bye Subaru, you lost a faithful.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 17, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Just ordered new car, bye bye Subaru, you lost a faithful.



Well? What did you get?


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## hammer (Nov 17, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Just ordered new car, bye bye Subaru, you lost a faithful.


So what are you getting?

I may go back to Subaru at some point...have to say that I wasn't happy about the repair costs after 100K miles on mine, and I wanted a change...


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## Philpug (Nov 17, 2009)

I ordered a 2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen.


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## riverc0il (Nov 17, 2009)

Philpug said:


> I ordered a 2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen.


Keep us posted on how that new wagon works out! Definitely is at the top of my short list for when I need to upgrade. For now, my car is fully paid off and running problem free at 155k, so it may be one year or three, but I am trying to get a feel for my options at this point.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 17, 2009)

Philpug said:


> I ordered a 2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen.



Nice



riverc0il said:


> Keep us posted on how that new wagon works out! Definitely is at the top of my short list for when I need to upgrade. For now, my car is fully paid off and running problem free at 155k, so it may be one year or three, but I am trying to get a feel for my options at this point.



Definitely


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## Philpug (Nov 18, 2009)

I think with 4 snows it will do me fine come winter time.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 18, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Just ordered new car, bye bye Subaru, you lost a faithful.



It's kinda like hitting a golf ball into the woods---lose one find 3 :grin:

Enjoy the farfromgrovin tho :wink:


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 18, 2009)

loved every VW and AUDI i've ever had, all have been issue free....love german engineering...have fun...my 1st car was a 2dr Golf, 5spd....


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## Geoff (Nov 18, 2009)

Philpug said:


> I think with 4 snows it will do me fine come winter time.



I'm really curious what you think after a winter with a TDi.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I'm really curious what you think after a winter with a TDi.



Because of fuel gumming up?

I would think down in PA that wouldn't be as much of an issue as living full time in VT.  Then again, the blends are probably different


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## bvibert (Nov 18, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Keep us posted on how that new wagon works out! Definitely is at the top of my short list for when I need to upgrade. For now, my car is fully paid off and running problem free at 155k, so it may be one year or three, but I am trying to get a feel for my options at this point.



Yes, please.  I'm no where near buying a new car at the moment, but I'll still be interested to hear how it works out for you.


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## Glenn (Nov 18, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Yes, please.  I'm no where near buying a new car at the moment, but I'll still be interested to hear how it works out for you.




x2!


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## Philpug (Nov 18, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> It's kinda like hitting a golf ball into the woods---lose one find 3 :grin:
> 
> Enjoy the farfromgrovin tho :wink:



I know they won't loose too much sleep over my loss. As I said with the Legacy, these will be the best selling Legacys/Outbacks ever. They are better cars, just not better Subarus. Quite frankly, I see VW going the same direction with the next generation Jettas, I hear they will be "americanized".


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## campgottagopee (Nov 18, 2009)

Philpug said:


> I know they won't loose too much sleep over my loss. As I said with the Legacy, these will be the best selling Legacys/Outbacks ever. They are better cars, just not better Subarus. Quite frankly, I see VW going the same direction with the next generation Jettas, I hear they will be "americanized".



Agree, we're going to see that trend throughout the entire industry.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 18, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Quite frankly, I see VW going the same direction with the next generation Jettas, I hear they will be "americanized".



Doesn't that make it a Passat?


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## Philpug (Nov 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Doesn't that make it a Passat?



Impreza got to be the size of the Legacy, Jetta will get to be the size of the Passat, I heard one rumor that the Passat might be going bye-bye.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 18, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Impreza got to be the size of the Legacy, Jetta will get to be the size of the Passat, I heard one rumor that the Passat might be going bye-bye.



Well if they bring the Golf ... er ... Rabbit wagon over that would be ok.


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## Philpug (Nov 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Well if they bring the Golf ... er ... Rabbit wagon over that would be ok.


The Jetta wagen _is_ the Golf Estate in Europe.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 18, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Agree, we're going to see that trend throughout the entire industry.



Do you think that would still be the case with $4 gasoline?


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## wa-loaf (Nov 18, 2009)

Philpug said:


> The Jetta wagen _is_ the Golf Estate in Europe.



I haven't looked at the line-up recently, but they used to have a Golf wagon and a Jetta Wagon.


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## riverc0il (Nov 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Do you think that would still be the case with $4 gasoline?


I would be really surprised if the trend did not eventually reverse itself for this reason. We saw the wholesale slaughter of SUV resale values when gas peaked a few years ago. Now that people have forgotten already how volatile gas prices are, the "Crossover" is the big thing (thus the new Outback). Meanwhile, Americans love bigger cars but some want higher MPG than "Crossovers" so we get sliding MPGs backwards as cars get bigger. Wonderful. Give it five years... I bet "Crossovers" will be the next SUV and bigger cars with be the next "Crossover" and eventually once gas prices get high enough, high MPG vehicles will come back into "fashion". Its like the car world has Texas fever... but does not want to be identified as a Texan.

:flag:

:roll:


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## deadheadskier (Nov 18, 2009)

I think one of the big issues driving the 'Americanized larger cars' is that most mid sized (which are now large cars) get just as good of gas mileage as compacts.  Case in point would be my wife and I's cars.  Our 07 Hyundai Sonata with a 3.5L 233 HP V6 and an automatic actually averages about 2mpg better both city and highway than our 04 Mazda 3 Hatchback with a 2L 148 HP V4 manual.


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## riverc0il (Nov 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I think one of the big issues driving the 'Americanized larger cars' is that most mid sized (which are now large cars) get just as good of gas mileage as compacts.  Case in point would be my wife and I's cars.  Our 07 Hyundai Sonata with a 3.5L 233 HP V6 and an automatic actually averages about 2mpg better both city and highway than our 04 Mazda 3 Hatchback with a 2L 148 HP V4 manual.


Yea, I have noticed that trend of compacts and sub-compacts not getting what they used to.


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## Philpug (Nov 18, 2009)

If Subie brought their diesel over, I might have waited. But first and foremost I wanted to go back to a real wagon, I weighed AWD vs. TDI and since there was no AWD wagons in the $20's and having a soft spot for VW products, I had 12 of them, the Jetta was my choice.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Do you think that would still be the case with $4 gasoline?



No, it's like Riv mentioned how "we" Americans have short memories. Just a year ago I we were taking in on trade more full size suv/trucks than you can imagine, and truly stupid low prices because of where the market was at. Now, that "stuff" is what's selling. Go figure.


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## Glenn (Nov 19, 2009)

Europeans are liking the larger vehicles as well. Turns out, as people get older (the largest segment of the population currently) they're less likely to enjoy wedging themselves in and out of small spaces. Not everyone over there drives a vintage mini.


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## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Europeans are liking the larger vehicles as well. Turns out, as people get older (the largest segment of the population currently) they're less likely to enjoy wedging themselves in and out of small spaces. Not everyone over there drives a vintage mini.


Wouldn't be able to tell that from the way the parking garages are...when I traveled in Germany a number of years back it amazed me how tight the parking garage spaces are.  When I had a Volvo S80 as a rental (Volvos seem to have large turn radii) getting into parking garage spaces was a real challenge.


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## Philpug (Nov 19, 2009)

hammer said:


> Wouldn't be able to tell that from the way the parking garages are...when I traveled in Germany a number of years back it amazed me how tight the parking garage spaces are.  When I had a Volvo S80 as a rental (Volvos seem to have large turn radii) getting into parking garage spaces was a real challenge.



Volvo front wheel drives have a large TR, with a transverse mounted in line motor, they are limited to wheel turn in. The rear wheel drive Volvos, 240/740/940 had a super tight TR. The S80 had a super long tranverse mounted 6.


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## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Volvo front wheel drives have a large TR, with a transverse mounted in line motor, they are limited to wheel turn in. The rear wheel drive Volvos, 240/740/940 had a super tight TR. The S80 had a super long tranverse mounted 6.


Makes sense, I'm also aware of that in my S40...I really enjoy driving the car but I'd admit that the turn radius is big for a car of its size.

That said, I've had fun getting other German cars into the parking garages as well.


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## Geoff (Nov 19, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I haven't looked at the line-up recently, but they used to have a Golf wagon and a Jetta Wagon.



From the door pillar forwards, the cars are identical.  It's just a name plate.  Depending on where you are on the world, the wagon version can say Golf, Jetta, Bora, Vento, or Sagitar.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 19, 2009)

Geoff said:


> From the door pillar forwards, the cars are identical.  It's just a name plate.  Depending on where you are on the world, the wagon version can say Golf, Jetta, Bora, Vento, or Sagitar.



I realize that, but they did offer both (in Germany) a few years ago. I'm sure they figured out it was not a great idea.

I'm wondering if the Jetta is going to get bigger and Passat gets retired. Is the Golf/Rabbit going to move onto the new platform with the Jetta or remain a smaller car. If that's the case would they offer a wagon version of the Rabbit?

On a side note. I parked my Outback (05) next to a new Passat Wagon a few days ago. I was surprised that they are pretty much the same size. I always figured the Passat was a bigger.


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## Glenn (Nov 19, 2009)

Amazing how much bigger cars get over time. My old MKIII Jetta looks like a really small car when next to the new MKV Jetta. The new MKV Jetta is pretty much the size of the older B5 Passat. 

I too heard they were going to retire the Passat. I thought I read tht in AutoWeek.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 19, 2009)

Aren't the CC and Passat fairly redundant?


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## Philpug (Nov 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Aren't the CC and Passat fairly redundant?



The CC is a 4door Passat Coupe. I what surprises me is the Passat has a strong name to retire. Not to drift this to a VW thread...(too late)...but I am thinking VW is going the way of selling their soul for market share. Sure short term gains are good but you will loose inthe long run. It is kinda like peeing down your leg, it feels good for a while, then it gets cold.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 19, 2009)

Philpug said:


> The CC is a 4door Passat Coupe. I what surprises me is the Passat has a strong name to retire. Not to drift this to a VW thread...(too late)...but I am thinking VW is going the way of selling their soul for market share. Sure short term gains are good but you will loose inthe long run. It is kinda like peeing down your leg, it feels good for a while, then it gets cold.



kinda like Subaru?


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> kinda like Subaru?



Nah, don't see veedub getting SUV of the year 2 years in a row. 8)


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## Philpug (Nov 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> kinda like Subaru?



Yeah. I am interested in if and when they bring the Polo Diesel and GTI over.


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## riverc0il (Nov 19, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Nah, don't see veedub getting SUV of the year 2 years in a row. 8)


Considering SUVs are almost all that Sub offers these days, I would hope the specialization would pay off.....


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## Mike P. (Nov 19, 2009)

In the latest safety test five Subaru's got top rating.  On a percentage basis a higher number of their fleet than any other car MFG.  Toyota had none.

(new test on roof stability lowered the number of vehicles from prior year.)


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## Geoff (Nov 20, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Amazing how much bigger cars get over time. My old MKIII Jetta looks like a really small car when next to the new MKV Jetta. The new MKV Jetta is pretty much the size of the older B5 Passat.
> 
> I too heard they were going to retire the Passat. I thought I read tht in AutoWeek.



My MK V GTI is halfway to a minivan.   It looks a lot bigger than my MK IV GTI.  I think it's more styling than anything.  The dimensions of the cars aren't all that different.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 20, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Considering SUVs are almost all that Sub offers these days, I would hope the specialization would pay off.....



AWD at that---oh, they were alos the only manufacturer last year to go up in sales with all those SUV's


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## wa-loaf (Nov 20, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Yeah. I am interested in if and when they bring the Polo Diesel and GTI over.



VW does have the option of bringing their smaller cars over pretty quickly if we get a longer term gas crisis. I don't think Subaru has an equivalent compact to the Polo and Fox it could pull out if needed.


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## Philpug (Nov 20, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> VW does have the option of bringing their smaller cars over pretty quickly if we get a longer term gas crisis. I don't think Subaru has an equivalent compact to the Polo and Fox it could pull out if needed.



You are absolutely right. If anything I think we would see a rebadged Toyota product w/o a pancake.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 20, 2009)

WOW, so I was at the subi dealer today and checked out the new Outback in person. It looks pretty nice, but it's fucking huge! Even bigger than I thought. Interesting that the model in the show room had the stick shift in it. Seems whenever you are looking for a stick they have to head way up in the back of the lot to find it. LOL. Anyway I guess I'm going to remain neutral on it. I'm 2-3+ years from a new car right now anyway. Who knows what I'll want then.


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## riverc0il (Nov 20, 2009)

I gotta wonder if all those SUV Subbie sales are folks new to Sub or those trading up and returning to the brand. If the former, you gotta wonder if those increased sales are sustainable if brand loyalists turn away (as we saw one do in this thread).


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