# Night Driving in Ski country - LED headlights



## gmcunni (Sep 4, 2016)

considering a switch to LED headlights. Anyone have them and have trouble driving in winter with snow/ice build up?


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 4, 2016)

Not LED I have HID Xenon but it's not the type of light bulb that affects your visibility as much as the brightness, spread, and color temperature.

Want better visibility, get a 3000k or 4000k yellowish/white bulb and not a 6000k blue toned bulb.

I don't see how snow/ice on the assembly lens would lead to greater restricted visibility with one kind of bulb vs. another.

That said if you want maximum brightness go Xenon projector.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 5, 2016)

Because the LED's don't throw the heat like the older bulbs to keep the lenses from freezing up.


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## twinplanx (Sep 5, 2016)

The new breed of extremely bright headlights are great when your BEHIND them. They absolutely SUCK when your in front of them!


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## andrec10 (Sep 5, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> The new breed of extremely bright headlights are great when your BEHIND them. They absolutely SUCK when your in front of them!



Thats what auto-dimming mirrors are for!


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## gmcunni (Sep 5, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Because the LED's don't throw the heat like the older bulbs to keep the lenses from freezing up.



^^


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 5, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> The new breed of extremely bright headlights are great when your BEHIND them. They absolutely SUCK when your in front of them!



If you have the projector cutoff set right they should actually give drivers in front less glare than a regular halogen with more vertical spread.

I did not think about the snow/ice melting! HID Xenon supposedly gives enough heat to melt snow/ice too. Better than LED in every way IMO.


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## gmcunni (Sep 5, 2016)

Truck Lite makes a heated LED headlight.  but the $$ is crazy (to me).  and this video doesn't make it seem like they are great anyway


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 5, 2016)

Headlight housings are designed for the type of light that will be put into it. 
If you go and put a led in a light designed for a standard filament, then the reflectors are not aimed properly. You will have tons of light scatter.


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## bigbog (Sep 5, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> The new breed of extremely bright headlights are great when your BEHIND them. They absolutely SUCK when your in front of them!



The newer headlights that jack up the brightness a bit and, most of all, spread the field of vision are terrific..imho, but for drivers older than 50 = the extremely bright lights should be illegal(but, as everything, tough to do once out of the bottle)...everyone's eyesight goes downhill a bit after 50 = just going to result in more expensive materials in windshields = mo sticker $$$.  It's rather tough to see the sides of some of the old, narrowly paved and broken up roads in financially stretched townships @night facing those bright lights coming around a curve...or a bunch of them in a row coming out from SL or SR.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2016)

I just try to avoid driving at night as much as possible now. I realize some of you don't have that option.


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## jimk (Sep 5, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> the new breed of extremely bright headlights are great when your behind them. They absolutely suck when your in front of them!



post of the year.


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## twinplanx (Sep 5, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> Thats what auto-dimming mirrors are for!


Great, but I don't have that option. I'll have to settle for flicking the switch by hand, the same way my Dad did. But this doesn't help with oncoming traffic. My high-beams aren't even as bright as these things.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 5, 2016)

Broadway 270mm convex mirror FTW

No blind spots and high beams aren't really a problem

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/161359831009?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true


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## Los (Sep 5, 2016)

twinplanx said:


> The new breed of extremely bright headlights are great when your BEHIND them. They absolutely SUCK when your in front of them!



+1


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## freeski (Sep 5, 2016)

If I think oncoming lights are too bright, even when I know they're not on high, I put my highs on. They always flash their highs to let me know their highs aren't on and I keep mine on.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 5, 2016)

freeski said:


> If I think oncoming lights are too bright, even when I know they're not on high, I put my highs on. They always flash their highs to let me know their highs aren't on and I keep mine on.


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## twinplanx (Sep 6, 2016)

freeski said:


> If I think oncoming lights are too bright, even when I know they're not on high, I put my highs on. They always flash their highs to let me know their highs aren't on and I keep mine on.


+1


Los said:


> +1


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## River19 (Sep 6, 2016)

Yes the newer lights (especially Acura and Audi products) suck when you are in front of them.

I don't really get the whole "I blind them back and leave the high beams on" thing.  Now neither one of you can see....before at least one guy could avoid the head on crash......


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## andrec10 (Sep 6, 2016)

freeski said:


> If I think oncoming lights are too bright, even when I know they're not on high, I put my highs on. They always flash their highs to let me know their highs aren't on and I keep mine on.



Thanks for being "THAT" guy!


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 6, 2016)

I rather have a BMW with it's bright lights low to the ground and a proper cutoff than a Ford F250 behind me.


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## freeski (Sep 6, 2016)

What about intentionally ramming someone for cutting you off? To be honest I rarely "high beam" my fellow motorists. Tuna is right a jacked up truck that hasn't had the lights adjusted can be worse. If I am actually blinded that is when I go one the offensive and I've only intentionally rammed someone once.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 6, 2016)

freeski said:


> What about intentionally ramming someone for cutting you off? To be honest I rarely "high beam" my fellow motorists. Tuna is right a jacked up truck that hasn't had the lights adjusted can be worse. If I am actually blinded that is when I go one the offensive and I've only intentionally rammed someone once.



I'm assuming you mostly ski in NH, so I'm probably safe this winter.


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## twinplanx (Sep 6, 2016)

River19 said:


> Yes the newer lights (especially Acura and Audi products) suck when you are in front of them.
> 
> I don't really get the whole "I blind them back and leave the high beams on" thing.  Now neither one of you can see....before at least one guy could avoid the head on crash......


It is rather ineffective in a 2001 Taurus with one hazy headlight.


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## mriceyman (Sep 6, 2016)

People always flash me in my ram 2500.. I try to flash back saying its not my fault we are just 6" too high and right in your field of vision. The newer the truck we buy the higher it sits and the lights are day and night better than 10 years ago. Dont think engineers figured this when the keep building bigger trucks. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## River19 (Sep 7, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> People always flash me in my ram 2500.. I try to flash back saying its not my fault we are just 6" too high and right in your field of vision. The newer the truck we buy the higher it sits and the lights are day and night better than 10 years ago. Dont think engineers figured this when the keep building bigger trucks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I have the same rig, 2014 with a leveling kit, 35" rubber, factory fogs and 4 PIAAs across the front......and my headlights are aimed legally where they should be.  I still get flashed......I will occasionally light them up for a split second with all 8 lights up front to let them know if could be a lot worse.......but only when on slow open roads........why make everyone blind, plus their high beams rarely are high enough to really get in my eyes too badly.

The ones that make me laugh are when people get behind me in that rig and try and light me up to pass etc. or ride my bumper with their high beams on......then they see the front of the truck and the light array and they probably have an "oh shit" moment if I pull back out behind them.  I believe I have only once lit their world up from the back after a particularly annoying incident.


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## mikec142 (Sep 12, 2016)

I guess I'm getting old, but night driving isn't nearly as comfortable as it used to be for me, especially in bad weather (rain/snow).  The newer, brighter headlights are a mixed bag for me...helps when I need the extra brightness, but I feel like 50% of the people on the road have their high beams on now.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 12, 2016)

River19 said:


> I believe I have only once lit their world up from the back after a particularly annoying incident.



With great power comes great responsibility.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 12, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> With great power comes great responsibility.



Hahaha! Funny! And so very true. ;-)


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## mriceyman (Sep 12, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> With great power comes great responsibility.



Good one tuna


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## bigbog (Sep 13, 2016)

There are smart windows out there for buildings.  I can't see why the scientific community hasn't come up with a smart windshield yet.  Excuses that Washington can't come up with the $$ = pretty lame amidst some things it does spend $$$ on.  Would boost business for the replacement companies..


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## mishka (Sep 13, 2016)

for years for night driving I'm using yellow  lens safety glasses to deal with it blinding lights of other cars 
Can be picked up cheap at harbor freight for $2


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 13, 2016)

mishka said:


> for years for night driving I'm using yellow  lens safety glasses to deal with it blinding lights of other cars
> Can be picked up cheap at harbor freight for $2



And you can get prescription sunglasses made fairly cheap at places like the Walmart Vision Centers and places like that. I have a pair for bird hunting, I think they cost me $85. Great for driving on those gray days where the weather blends into the snow countryside.


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## ss20 (Sep 13, 2016)

freeski said:


> What about intentionally ramming someone for cutting you off? To be honest I rarely "high beam" my fellow motorists. Tuna is right a jacked up truck that hasn't had the lights adjusted can be worse. If I am actually blinded that is when I go one the offensive and I've only intentionally rammed someone once.



And you're proud of this post? :-?:-o


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## mishka (Sep 13, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> And you can get prescription sunglasses made fairly cheap at places like the Walmart Vision Centers and places like that. I have a pair for bird hunting, I think they cost me $85. Great for driving on those gray days where the weather blends into the snow countryside.



 yellow lenses soften bright headlight  light. for people with prescription glasses there "over prescription safety glasses".  I know this approach not too stylish but it simple and effective

edit: for more stylish approach  use shooting glasses/over prescription shooting glasses


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## Brewbeer (Sep 13, 2016)

I put aftermarket LED headlights in my 97 Accord (the two low beam bulbs).  They work very well, greatly increasing visibility over the old lame halogens the car came with.  Be warned though, aftermarket head lights will not pass inspection in Massachusetts.   You will need to temporarily swap in the OEM equipment to get through insection (ask me how I found out).


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 13, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> I put aftermarket LED headlights in my 97 Accord (the two low beam bulbs).  They work very well, greatly increasing visibility over the old lame halogens the car came with.  Be warned though, aftermarket head lights will not pass inspection in Massachusetts.   You will need to temporarily swap in the OEM equipment to get through insection (ask me how I found out).



Unless your lights are aiming too high it shouldn't make any difference. You can modify your headlights as long as you don't remove the amber directionals or reflectors (ask me how I found out  )


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## Brewbeer (Sep 14, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Unless your lights are aiming too high it shouldn't make any difference. You can modify your headlights as long as you don't remove the amber directionals or reflectors



The LEDs are aimed exactly the same as the halogens, so bad aiming isn't the issue.  The reflectors are the original OEM equipment, the only change was the bulbs, which mount in the reflector with the same retaining ring as the OEM haolgens.      I had two inspection stations (one in Springfield and one in Longmeadow) fail the car due to aftermarket bulbs.  They both provided the exact explanation for the inspection failure:  if LED lights weren't an option from the manufacturer at the time of purchase, they were illegal in Massachusetts and the inspection station was required to fail the car.  They said the same thing about HIDs:  If you couldn't buy the car equipped that way from the manufacturer, it won't pass inspection.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 14, 2016)

(10)
   Lighting Devices. 
(e)
      Aftermarket  Lighting
.     Any  aftermarket  lighting  inconsistent  with  FMVSS  108  or  
M.G.L. c. 90 shall be removed or the vehicle shall be rejected. 

.......
Scroll to section 12.29 in this document... did you by chance get a cheap Chinese made Ebay lighting kit? Reason I ask is because I'd guess they're more likely to skip the DOT markings and make non-compliant parts.

www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/TP-108-13.pdf


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## cdskier (Sep 14, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> The LEDs are aimed exactly the same as the halogens, so bad aiming isn't the issue.  The reflectors are the original OEM equipment, the only change was the bulbs, which mount in the reflector with the same retaining ring as the OEM haolgens.      I had two inspection stations (one in Springfield and one in Longmeadow) fail the car due to aftermarket bulbs.  They both provided the exact explanation for the inspection failure:  if LED lights weren't an option from the manufacturer at the time of purchase, they were illegal in Massachusetts and the inspection station was required to fail the car.  They said the same thing about HIDs:  If you couldn't buy the car equipped that way from the manufacturer, it won't pass inspection.



Just come to NJ...our inspections simply consist of connecting to the OBD to check for any emissions related error codes, making sure the "check engine" light isn't on, and making sure there are no visible signs of leaks or smoke. Safety is no longer a component of our inspections!


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## Jully (Sep 14, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> The LEDs are aimed exactly the same as the halogens, so bad aiming isn't the issue.  The reflectors are the original OEM equipment, the only change was the bulbs, which mount in the reflector with the same retaining ring as the OEM haolgens.      I had two inspection stations (one in Springfield and one in Longmeadow) fail the car due to aftermarket bulbs.  They both provided the exact explanation for the inspection failure:  if LED lights weren't an option from the manufacturer at the time of purchase, they were illegal in Massachusetts and the inspection station was required to fail the car.  They said the same thing about HIDs:  If you couldn't buy the car equipped that way from the manufacturer, it won't pass inspection.



What year was this? Could the policy have changed?


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## Brewbeer (Sep 14, 2016)

Jully said:


> What year was this? Could the policy have changed?



Failed in Longmeadow in March 2015, and in Springfield in March 2016.  Since the re-inspection is free, I just put the old halogens (which were so dim they were truly dangerous) back in temporarily to get through the inspection.  Actually, the guy who inspected the car in 2015 and failed it for the aftermarket lights told me to put the LEDs back in after he was done with the re-inspection.


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## Jully (Sep 14, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> Failed in Longmeadow in March 2015, and in Springfield in March 2016.  Since the re-inspection is free, I just put the old halogens (which were so dim they were truly dangerous) back in temporarily to get through the inspection.  Actually, the guy who inspected the car in 2015 and failed it for the aftermarket lights told me to put the LEDs back in after he was done with the re-inspection.



Okay, so definitely not a policy change since then. I wonder what the difference was. That's a pretty easy workaround though!


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 14, 2016)

You just have to make sure your aftermarket bulbs (and ballasts) are marked DOT/SAE , which a lot of them aren't but some are.

Unfortunately there's a lot of room for interpretation when it comes to headlight inspection-- although there shouldn't be. It's common to get lazy and half accurate explanations for a fail.

I know I'm in for a fail this upcoming year even though I was passed once with the amber plastic cleared over the directional bulbs in my headlight housing, they said fix it before next year. They didn't seem to care about the Xenon kit or Angel Eyes LED ring or that my headlight housings are blacked out in the back where it was previously reflector stuff. But gotta get that amber plastic back in there even though I have amber directional bulbs.

Come to think of it I might be getting cut some slack on the Xenon because I have OEM projectors so no retrofit necessary and type of bulb really makes no difference.

Not looking forward to this little project but at least I can get away with most of it.


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## Brewbeer (Sep 14, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> (10)
> Lighting Devices.
> (e)
> Aftermarket  Lighting
> ...



They weren't cheap (about $150/pair two years ago when I bought them), and they weren't eBay (purchased from Autoanything.com after doing much research on bright halogens, HIDs and LEDs).  I could have continued to use much brighter (than OEM) halogens but the bright halogens have a very short lifespan (they were burning out in less then 2 years).  Went with LEDs due to lower power demand than HIDs.  I bought these manufactured by Putco:  http://www.autoanything.com/lights/putco-universal-led-headlight-bulbs


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## Brewbeer (Sep 14, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> You just have to make sure your aftermarket bulbs (and ballasts) are marked DOT/SAE , which a lot of them aren't but some are.
> 
> Unfortunately there's a lot of room for interpretation when it comes to headlight inspection-- although there shouldn't be. It's common to get lazy and half accurate explanations for a fail.



The problem is that the inspection station more or less has total control over how to interpret the rules, and thus whether your car passes or fails.  Once you have that rejection sticker, it's like a target for the police, especially for my car (97 Accord).  It's just not a big enough issue to make a stink about it (it is not that hard to swap the bulbs but it is a PITA).  The lights themselves are great, I've never been pulled over for them, and never get beamed by oncoming traffic for having too bright or poorly aimed headlights (unlike some in this thread).


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## mriceyman (Sep 14, 2016)

Yea in nj you dont even need headlights to pass inspection


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## mbedle (Sep 14, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> Yea in nj you dont even need headlights to pass inspection
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



What???


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## mbedle (Sep 14, 2016)

mbedle said:


> What???



I stand corrected - wow, that is amazing.


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## cdskier (Sep 14, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I stand corrected - wow, that is amazing.



Yup...the NJ inspection is purely emissions now (based mostly on your OBD not showing any active error codes). Been like that for a few years.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 14, 2016)

The people must rise up and demand this everywhere.


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## snoseek (Sep 14, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> The people must rise up and demand this everywhere.




There's actually a lot of states mainly in the west that only do emissions. Colorado was just emissions every two years. My county in California didn't even require emissions at all. Its a east coast thing and honestly its kind of annoying.


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## cdskier (Sep 14, 2016)

NJ started doing it as a cost saving measure if I remember correctly. I believe a secondary goal was to reduce wait times for inspections too and reduce the lines. There actually was a number of people complaining that we were going to all of a sudden have all these unsafe cars on the road as a result of the change.


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 14, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> The LEDs are aimed exactly the same as the halogens, so bad aiming isn't the issue.  The reflectors are the original OEM equipment, the only change was the bulbs, which mount in the reflector with the same retaining ring as the OEM haolgens.      I had two inspection stations (one in Springfield and one in Longmeadow) fail the car due to aftermarket bulbs.  They both provided the exact explanation for the inspection failure:  if LED lights weren't an option from the manufacturer at the time of purchase, they were illegal in Massachusetts and the inspection station was required to fail the car.  They said the same thing about HIDs:  If you couldn't buy the car equipped that way from the manufacturer, it won't pass inspection.



I am so happy to hear of places actually failing you and others for this.
Your headlights were not designed to use a led bulb. While the bulbs may put off more light, it is not done in a way for your reflectors to properly send the light down the road. You are blinding everybody driving at you!


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## ThinkSnow (Sep 14, 2016)

Haven't been on this site for a while, and this thread reinforces why I have not.

What a bunch of douche-bags.


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## Brewbeer (Sep 14, 2016)

Hawkshot99 said:


> While the bulbs may put off more light, it is not done in a way for your reflectors to properly send the light down the road!


You must have experience with my specific bulbs and reflectors.  Please tell us more.


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## freeski (Sep 15, 2016)

Another light issue I have with other motorists are those who enter the interstate without using their turn signal. A friend once said "what does it matter? You know where they're going." WRONG, the flashing single gets the attention of everyone and it's the law. If a driver has his directional on I'll bend over backwards to let them on. No directional, you'll end up in the woods. What does it take to use your signal? Drive with courtesy, that's the New Hampshire way.


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## Jully (Sep 15, 2016)

freeski said:


> Another light issue I have with other motorists are those who enter the interstate without using their turn signal. A friend once said "what does it matter? You know where they're going." WRONG, the flashing single gets the attention of everyone and it's the law. If a driver has his directional on I'll bend over backwards to let them on. No directional, you'll end up in the woods. What does it take to use your signal? Drive with courtesy, that's the New Hampshire way.



If I'm ever passing a line of cars, I'm always terrified someone is going to pop out into my lane without checking their blindspot or using their turn signal and slam into me. When I was in drivers ed, turn signals were absolutely drilled into us. I've been laughed at by friends and family before because we were on some neglected side road or parking lot and I've used a turn signal. It's just automatic.


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## freeski (Sep 15, 2016)

How many fender benders would be avoided by using turn signals in parking lots? I use them to say "this car will be moving shortly. Also in parking lots, when you're walking back to your car look around and see if anyone, kids, are around your car. Load your groceries and check again before getting in.


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## bigbog (Sep 15, 2016)

freeski said:


> How many fender benders would be avoided by using _*turn signals*_ in parking lots? I use them to say "this car will be moving shortly....



Would like to hear people, EVERYWHERE, while driving around parking lots...looking for parking spaces...to use their* horns* not in an aggressive way...ie "get outta my way" but to warn people, who are trying to back out.  Can be a PITA trying to see around much larger vehicles parked beside you and not get clipped by vehicles accellerating up & down parking lanes, OR maybe the law should should now state that drivers have to yield to vehicles exiting parking spaces.


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## cdskier (Sep 15, 2016)

Jully said:


> When I was in drivers ed, turn signals were absolutely drilled into us. I've been laughed at by friends and family before because we were on some neglected side road or parking lot and I've used a turn signal. It's just automatic.



Plus, you never know where a cop could be waiting to see someone fail to use one. At Sugarbush 2 of my cousins were pulled over last year late at night for failing to use a turn signal at the end of German Flats Road when turning right onto the Access Road to get back to their condos/hotel after dinner at Common Man. People making a right at that spot often fail to use a signal especially when they think no one is around.


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## Jully (Sep 15, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Plus, you never know where a cop could be waiting to see someone fail to use one. At Sugarbush 2 of my cousins were pulled over last year late at night for failing to use a turn signal at the end of German Flats Road when turning right onto the Access Road to get back to their condos/hotel after dinner at Common Man. People making a right at that spot often fail to use a signal especially when they think no one is around.



That's hilarious, but also pretty frustrating! I've never heard of people getting pulled over for not signaling in MA or ME, the two places I've lived. I have heard about it multiple times in Vermont though.


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 15, 2016)

Brewbeer said:


> You must have experience with my specific bulbs and reflectors.  Please tell us more.



Yes. If you are failing then they are illegal for a reason...


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## Edd (Sep 15, 2016)

ThinkSnow said:


> Haven't been on this site for a while, and this thread reinforces why I have not.
> 
> What a bunch of douche-bags.



A generalization, to be sure. It's hard to pick your family, co-workers, and forum members.  That's why friends are the best.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 15, 2016)

Edd said:


> It's hard to pick your forum members.



Not really, the block feature on here is great.


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## Edd (Sep 15, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Not really, the block feature on here is great.



I've never used it. Maybe not a bad idea.


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## cdskier (Sep 15, 2016)

Jully said:


> That's hilarious, but also pretty frustrating! I've never heard of people getting pulled over for not signaling in MA or ME, the two places I've lived. I have heard about it multiple times in Vermont though.



To be fair, the cops said they were looking for drunk drivers and let them both off with warnings. They mainly used the failure to signal as an excuse to pull them over and make sure they weren't drunk it sounds like from what my cousin told me.


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## gmcunni (Sep 15, 2016)

Jully said:


> That's hilarious, but also pretty frustrating! I've never heard of people getting pulled over for not signaling in MA or ME, the two places I've lived. I have heard about it multiple times in Vermont though.



vermont gets a lot of revenue from tourists... all kinds of revenue


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## gmcunni (Sep 15, 2016)

cdskier said:


> To be fair, the cops said they were looking for drunk drivers and let them both off with warnings. They mainly used the failure to signal as an excuse to pull them over and make sure they weren't drunk it sounds like from what my cousin told me.



glad they got off. that's good police work in my book!


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## cdskier (Sep 15, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> vermont gets a lot of revenue from tourists... all kinds of revenue



I heard a rumor that management at Sugarbush was not happy with the police "harassing" their visitors and had even filed a complaint with the police telling them to back off. I really don't see police too often in the area though, so maybe they only step up their presence on holidays when I'm not around.


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## Jully (Sep 15, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> glad they got off. that's good police work in my book!



I tend to agree with you. I'm fine with that if it is a way to look out for drunk drivers!


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## machski (Sep 15, 2016)

Jully said:


> That's hilarious, but also pretty frustrating! I've never heard of people getting pulled over for not signaling in MA or ME, the two places I've lived. I have heard about it multiple times in Vermont though.



Well, in MA and ME, it is not a posted law to use signals to change lanes.  Next time you get on a highway in VT, look at the signs.  It is a posted law in Vermont.  (Of course in VT, you can pass traffic driving below the speed limit over a double yellow provided that stretch is not posted Do Not Pass and you don't exceed the speed limit yourself in doing so).


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## Jully (Sep 15, 2016)

machski said:


> Well, in MA and ME, it is not a posted law to use signals to change lanes.  Next time you get on a highway in VT, look at the signs.  It is a posted law in Vermont.  (Of course in VT, you can pass traffic driving below the speed limit over a double yellow provided that stretch is not posted Do Not Pass and you don't exceed the speed limit yourself in doing so).



Woah. Learn something new every day. That would explain why some sections of road in VT are labeled do not pass even if there is a double yellow.


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