# Presidential Traverse



## awf170 (May 8, 2006)

Trying to get my dad to do it with me this year.  (it's Madison to Webster if you don't know)  Just curious if anyone here has done it.  Also anyone know what the total vertical climbed on it is(I hoping for over 10,000 but it probably isn't) also whats the milage, I think its like 23 but I'm not positive.


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## SilentCal (May 8, 2006)

Here's a link to a good information page on Presidential Traverses.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ellozy/presidential-traverse.html


Good Luck it's a tough trip.   You certainly want to be in good shape if you try this.


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## salida (May 8, 2006)

This is a monster of a hike, let me say that first.  I've done it in segements while working at the OBS.  Nightish hikes both times.  One day we did the southern version, and somehow added isolation to it.  The next day we did the northern version.  Never done it in one day however, and le tme note we started at the top both days, kind of gives us a handicap.

Am aiming to do so this summer.  You want to be in good shape if you are going to try this, and if the weather were to get bad, its quite disorienting if you've never done the trails.  I'd suggest spending a year getting to know the area, beforing trying to flash a presidential traverse.

-porter


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## pepsi (May 8, 2006)

I did it last year. I think you're pretty close on the mileage. I never looked into the elevation gain but you're probably right about that.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/4731-presi-traverse-8-20-2005-a.html


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## Mike P. (May 9, 2006)

Elevation gain is around 8300 for you & mileage a little longer.  I'm getting ready for doing it this June.  It's 22 miles & 8100+ if heading up Valley Way & down Webster Jackson, which I'm hoping to do.  Here is the breakdown:

Valley Way to hut    	3.8	3550
Madison & back	0.9	550
Adams	               0.9             950
T-Storm Jct	0.3	0
Edmands	               1.3             0
Jefferson    	0.5            550
Sphinx Col	                 1	   0
Jewell	                0.9            450
Clay Loop S. End	0.3	50
Washington	1.1	900
LOC            	1.5	0
Monroe S. End	0.8	350
Edmand Path	1.4	30
Ike Loop South	0.8	300
Pierce        	1.3	250
C-Notch via C-Path	3.2	0
To Mizpah   	0.9	0
To Jackson	1.7	250
To C-Notch	2.6	0

Presi's only	20	7930
Add Jackson	22	8180

Only thing I'm not sure or right know is my mileage above if you skip Jackson is done C-Path or past Mizpah & down the cut-off to the C-Path. 

The Pemi loop, 33.7 miles including Galehead & West Bond & elevation gain is almost 10,000.  (9810 give or take a few feet.)


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## SkiDog (May 9, 2006)

Mike P. said:
			
		

> The Pemi loop, 33.7 miles including Galehead & West Bond & elevation gain is almost 10,000.  (9810 give or take a few feet.)



I'm likely doing the "loop" this season. Making it a 2 overnight.....prolly hit some side peaks tooo...

Looking WAY forward to it...didn't make the planned trip last season due to my partner backing out..

M


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## awf170 (May 9, 2006)

In all seriousness I probably wont do it this year,  I would like to but it would probably take my dad more time to get into shape(he's almost 50).  I actually think I could do it in the shape I'm in now, but I may be crazy...


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## SkiDog (May 9, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> In all seriousness I probably wont do it this year,  I would like to but it would probably take my dad more time to get into shape(he's almost 50).  I actually think I could do it in the shape I'm in now, but I may be crazy...




Oh I don't know..I think you're likely more than capable as is your father...the whole loops has been trail run in just about 7 hours is the record...now obviously that is someone who runs marathons and whatnot, but if someone can do it in 7 hours..I believe ANYONE thats in semi good hiking shape can do it if they take their time..like i said I think im going to do the loop as a "mild" 2 overnight 3 day trip..

M


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## gustmouse (May 9, 2006)

Great hike, park your car at pinkham notch and you can do a thirty plus mile loop in 3 or 4 days.
But it’s a very demanding hike with a very long day above tree line from the upper part of Madison gulf trail to Eisenhower.
Plan on getting up very early and climbing up Madison Gulf trail which is very steep and not easy. Then the fun begins 10-12 miles of alpine.
If the weather is good, great hike and if not it can be DANGEROUS. But it’s a very long hike especially with a load. But it’s the kind of hike you’ll remember forever!


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## Mike P. (May 9, 2006)

If I got people on different hikes, I apolgize;

Regarding the Presidential Traverse, 

awf170, providing his heart is okay & if you are even considering bringing Dad along he probably does some hiking so his heart should be fine, its a matter of time & getting into better hiking shape.  Are you looking at one day or more than one?

Almost 50 should have no bearing unless he does not hike much anymore, several of the strongest & quickest hikers I know are over 50, I'm just a few months shy of 45 myself.

Any reason why you want to include Webster & descend on the AT?  Unless you start real early, you are likely to go down in the dark.  Personally after dark, I prefer ny descents on easier terrain I'm familiar with.  Also while older people can have great heart lung capacity, knees & hips tend to dislike the abuse more, so a longer steeper descent to Route 302 in the dark (I understand there are some great views which is why I want to do Webster Cliff some day when the weaher is good, lately I've hit many rainy days in NH) when you can't enjoy the views seems more like torture.  

Technically, the traverse would be just Madison through Pierce since Jackson is named for Charles Jackson, a NH native (geologist I think but I'm not sure of his occupation) Unsure if you need to do the Adams Sub peak JQA & now Clay since it's been renamed to Mt. Reagan.

I've done the whole thing back in 1995 staying two nights, one at LOC & the other at Madison before descending to PNVC.  In 2001, a friend & I did Jefferson thru Pierce & last year I did Jefferson through Eisenhower by going up Jewell.  T

Typically it's thought that going North to South is easier as you cab get to Madison hut via Valley Way on a trail that is amongst the easiest that gains roughly 3500 feet.  You can leave your pack at the hut & then ascend the .45 or so up Madison quickly.  Your then still fresh for the 1000 foot climb of Adams, the 900 or so foot climb of Jefferson (My numbers above are short some as Edmands col is around 4800 or 4900 feet so in order to get to 5716 you need to ascend more than 550 feet.  I likley missed some on Gulfside from where it leaves the col to the north end of the loop) & the 1400 feet or so up  to Washington on the Gulfside, a trail that has descent footing thanks to J. Edmands work.  After that it's mostly downhill. Only 350 up Monroe, 300 or so up Eisnehower, 300 up Pierce & 250 up Jackson.  The other way after Washinton you have 800 feet up Jefferson, almost 1000 up Adams & 550 up Madison.   

The Pemi Loop, SkiDog, I'm assuming you're looking at this since you quoted my numbers there.  Many people do this as a two night trip, only issue is what direction & picking your spots.  I'd be in favor of an early day one start & getting to Garfield for night one, then to Guyot for day two, that leaves day three to take your time on the Bonds.  If you can make it to Garfield on day one, you should be strong enough on day two to take short side trips to Galehead's summit & North Twin.  People recommend watching the sun set from West Bond.

I'm going to try this as a one day trip.  In all likelihood, I'll probably get as far as Garfield or maybe Galehead before descending.  That would be fine too, over 25 miles & 6000 feet of elevation gain.  Since I've been real good on the diet & exercising, I'll probably look at doing Owl's Head or the Bonds early this fall as a day trip & if I keep going, maybe one of them this winter too.  After all, I'm getting closer to 50 every day!


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## awf170 (May 9, 2006)

Mike P. said:
			
		

> awf170, providing his heart is okay & if you are even considering bringing Dad along he probably does some hiking so his heart should be fine, its a matter of time & getting into better hiking shape. Are you looking at one day or more than one?
> 
> Almost 50 should have no bearing unless he does not hike much anymore, several of the strongest & quickest hikers I know are over 50, I'm just a few months shy of 45 myself.



One day, and his heart is fine.  He runs 5 miles up lynn woods a few times a week if the weather is good.  And I play basketball about 2 hours a day.  So i think both of us would be fine with easier route with no more training.


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## Mike P. (May 9, 2006)

I'd say he is fine if he has been doing any hiking or is used to that rocky terrain.  Since January I'm averaging around 20 miles a week but that is 7 on the treadmill - mostly jogging, walking 7, running 4 & bicycling around 10.  (I only count the bike miles at 20% since each bike mile is easier than a walking or running mile).

Start early & maybe you should carry the heavier pack....


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## Greg (May 10, 2006)

Austin - what type of hiking experience do you have? There's no better training than just getting out there and hiking. There's also no reason why you have to jump right into what is the most dangerous areas in the Whites and try to do the whole traverse in a day. Winter conditions can be experienced in all months so while somewhat non-experienced hikers that are in general very good shape and health, probably could pull it off on a perfect day weather-wise, there are no weather guarantees, especially up there.

What's the rush? Ease into the hiking thing. Do shorter day hikes in the area which will get you familiar with the terrain and the trails. Perhaps later this summer, or more likely next, if you feel comfortable, then attempt a traverse. Throw in some overnight backpacks/base camps this summer. Enjoy the mountains. At 17, my guess is your interested in a traverse just so you can say you did it. Start smaller.


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## awf170 (May 10, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Austin - what type of hiking experience do you have? There's no better training than just getting out there and hiking. There's also no reason why you have to jump right into what is the most dangerous areas in the Whites and try to do the whole traverse in a day. Winter conditions can be experienced in all months so while somewhat non-experienced hikers that are in general very good shape and health, probably could pull it off on a perfect day weather-wise, there are no weather guarantees, especially up there.
> 
> What's the rush? Ease into the hiking thing. Do shorter day hikes in the area which will get you familiar with the terrain and the trails. Perhaps later this summer, or more likely next, if you feel comfortable, then attempt a traverse. Throw in some overnight backpacks/base camps this summer. Enjoy the mountains. At 17, my guess is your interested in a traverse just so you can say you did it. Start smaller.



I have done about 50-75 major hikes.  For 4,000 footers in the NE I have done: Madison, Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Lafayette, Licoln, Haystack, Liberty, Flume, Cabot, Giant, Mansfield, Camels hump, the Brothers, and Baxter peak.  Probably a few more I can't remember right now.  I have also done Percy peak about 20 times and the Lafayette loop about 5.  My dad has probably done every 4,000 fter in NH 3-5 times.


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## Greg (May 10, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> I have done about 50-75 major hikes.  For 4,000 footers in the NE I have done: Madison, Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Lafayette, Licoln, Haystack, Liberty, Flume, Cabot, Giant, Mansfield, Camels hump, the Brothers, and Baxter peak.  Probably a few more I can't remember right now.  I have also done Percy peak about 20 times and the Lafayette loop about 5.  My dad has probably done every 4,000 fter in NH 3-5 times.


Okay. Thanks for qualifying your experience. I assume after doing those peaks you have the knowlege and gear required for extended above treeline travel. If that's the case, do a few warm-up hikes and then go for it. Just know when to turn around or descend if the weather turns.


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## Mike P. (May 10, 2006)

Austin,

Sounds like you've already been on the most exposed peaks, you want to start early in the day if heading out between now & late August when afternoon T-storms are possible & likely the most probable bad weather you'll hit.  (It could snow too)

Difference in doing the whole traverse is that you need to watch the incoming weather before it gets there & which trails in which areas are good escape routes.  For instance while Jewell may provide the easiest footing, it does not descend quick enough if you are in the weather then, descending Sphinx is quicker but footing is tougher & steeper.  Now good escape out of Edmands quickly, Randolph probably best but similar to Jewell in getting down.  6H or  Castle Ravine should not be used unless familar with those trails first hand.  

Reading the WMG studying the map & knowing which trails you will pass might be good escape routes should be done.  A couple of warm up hikes is always a good idea too.


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## MichaelJ (May 10, 2006)

One key thing to remember about the Presi traverse is that you can do the entire trip with no summits whatsoever. You can take the Valley Way up to the Gulfside all the way over to the Crawford Path and not touch a top. All the summits are on side trails, ranging in length and elevation.

Admittedly, once you're already on the Gulfside, the summits of Adams and Jefferson aren't that far, but you could skip the backpedaling up Madison, and on the south side you can go around either of Monroe or Eisenhower if you're feeling beaten. You're above treeline anyway, it's just the elevation (and the views) you'll miss.

Not that it's a true traverse that way, but the option is there to ease way up on the route while already out on the hike.


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## David Metsky (May 10, 2006)

Mike P. said:
			
		

> Technically, the traverse would be just Madison through Pierce since Jackson is named for Charles Jackson, a NH native (geologist I think but I'm not sure of his occupation) Unsure if you need to do the Adams Sub peak JQA & now Clay since it's been renamed to Mt. Reagan.


The part everyone can agree on is Madsion, Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Monroe, Ike, and Pierce.  Many folks add Jackson and Webster, but not everyone.  It has nothing to do with presidential names however, just the extent of the range.  The names of the peaks really doesn't enter into it.

The sub-peaks aren't part of the pseudo-offical lists, and you have to go out of your way a bit for JQA.  People often do Clay but not because the Reagan thing.  No one pays any attention to the Reagan thing, since it's only recognized by the NH legislature and probably will never appear on any map or trailsign.  Clay really doesn't add any elevation gain to the trip.  Neither does Franklin (between Monroe and Ike).

It's a long day.  Not everyone in decent shape will complete it, even if they take their time.  The rock up there is very hard on your feet, people get sore and hurt quite often.  Even if people run it in 7 hours (and I think you were refering to the Pemi loop with that time) that doesn't mean squat to most folks.  Lots of folks fail due to injury, darkness, weather or plain tiredness, even folks in excellent shape.

I've done it a few times, in both directions.  The keys IMO are:
 - be lucky enough to get good weather
 - start at first light
 - keep moving, never stop for more than 15 minutes
 - drink water like crazy
 - good companions

 -dave-


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## SkiDog (May 10, 2006)

David Metsky said:
			
		

> It's a long day.  Not everyone in decent shape will complete it, even if they take their time.  The rock up there is very hard on your feet, people get sore and hurt quite often.  Even if people run it in 7 hours (and I think you were refering to the Pemi loop with that time) that doesn't mean squat to most folks.  Lots of folks fail due to injury, darkness, weather or plain tiredness, even folks in excellent shape.
> 
> 
> -dave-



I agree....I don't ever account for getting hurt...I don't like to think about it , but your is one of the opinions on this topic that I truly value as I know you post quite a bit on VFTT and know you know the area..

I also would not try it in a day..Hopefully doing the "loop" this summer..

M


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## Mike P. (May 10, 2006)

As always,

Thanks Dave!


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## Greg (May 11, 2006)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> I agree....I don't ever account for getting hurt...I don't like to think about it , but your is one of the opinions on this topic that I truly value as I know you post quite a bit on VFTT and know you know the area..


Indeed. Dave is truly the authority here. for those that haven't been to it, he runs *Hike the Whites!*, formally the White Mountain Info Server. The WMIS has been online since the early 90's I believe and is a fanastic site that describes every 4K peak in detail from a fellow hiker's perspective. Dave's site was part of the inspiration for me to start AlpineZone in 1998. I used to spend hours browsing his site and checking out the pics and reading the descriptions of the peaks, trails, notches, other features, etc. in the Whites. He's been giving valid White Mountain hiking advice on The AMC BBS, VFTT and AlpineZone for years. He's an asset to this site.


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## Mark S (May 13, 2006)

It's an arse-kicker for sure, but doable by strong hikers as a day hike.  Be honest with yourself about the kind of shape you and your dad are in and train adequately.  Here's the trip report my partner wrote-up about our traverse (sans Webster and Jackson) last Labor Day.  Good luck.

http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/170430/presidential-traverse.html


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