# Best hard rock album of all time?



## Greg (May 4, 2006)

So what do you think? Which is the best hard rock album of all time? And not just an album that has a couple of hits, but one that is truly great from start to finish. For me, it easy: Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction!

Rock on Axl! 

Thoughts?


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## JimG. (May 4, 2006)

AC/DC, Back in Black.


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## 2knees (May 4, 2006)

I was trying to decide between back in black or highway to hell.  i cant.


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

How about Def Leppard, Pyromania or Metallica's black album? Also, it may sound cheesy, but the Skid Row debut was a great album.


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## BeanoNYC (May 4, 2006)

Led Zep II


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## JimG. (May 4, 2006)

BeanoNYC said:
			
		

> Led Zep II



Oh yeah, but the first 4 Lep Zep albums are so good it's hard for me to choose.

Ever listen the the BBC sessions?


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, but the first 4 Lep Zep albums are so good it's hard for me to choose.
> 
> Ever listen the the BBC sessions?


Not sure I would classify Zeppelin as "hard rock" though. Depends on you perspective, I guess.


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## JimG. (May 4, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Not sure I would classify Zeppelin as "hard rock" though. Depends on you perspective, I guess.



Def Leppard =hard rock, Led Zeppelin=not hard rock?

I don't think I agree with that.

Here's another candidate: The Who, Quadrophenia.


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Def Leppard =hard rock, Led Zeppelin=not hard rock?
> 
> I don't think I agree with that.


Yeah, I guess you're right. I suppose I just classify anything pre-1980 as classic rock, but then I guess one would argue a band like Black Sabbath is definitely hard rock.


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## Marc (May 4, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, but the first 4 Lep Zep albums are so good it's hard for me to choose.
> 
> Ever listen the the BBC sessions?



Ditto on the first four Zep albums.  I'd have a hard time choosing... I'd lean towards I or III I think... but man.  I don't know.

If Zep isn't considered hard rock, then I'd have to put up my vote for either Soundgarden's Superunknown or Audioslave's self titled.  Neither are at the forefront of many people's mind for this classification probably, but for me they are. 

Audioslave is probably hard for some to give this title to since it hasn't been out long and so has not had a chance to test its staying power.

That and I think Audislave would have been better off with Kim Thayil rather than Tom Morello.  Not to stir the pot or anything...


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## JimG. (May 4, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> but then I guess one would argue a band like Black Sabbath is definitely hard rock.



Funny...I was going to use Black Sabbath as an example of another band you might think isn't hard rock.

Here's something to ponder...how would you classify an artist like Jimi Hendrix? To me, he's almost a stand alone artist, one of a kind. Hard rock, R&B, soul?


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## hrstrat57 (May 4, 2006)

Bridge of Sighs, R Trower

...despite the crys of "foul" from Hendrix fans....:uzi:

Course I'm a strat guy....


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## skibum1321 (May 4, 2006)

Soundgarden's Superunknown was great. I would also throw Alice in Chains self-titled in there.


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> I would also throw Alice in Chains self-titled in there.


Oooh. A good one. You mean "Facelift", right?


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## andyzee (May 4, 2006)

Deep Purple Fireball or Who Do We Think We Are


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## skibum1321 (May 4, 2006)

I actually meant "Alice in Chains" - the green one with the 3 legged dog on the cover. But Facelift is another great one. Dirt was awesome too. Man, I miss AIC.


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## skibum1321 (May 4, 2006)

Another one that I forgot is "Above" by Mad Season. It was a super group with Layne Staley from Alice in Chains, Mike McCready from Pearl Jam and Barrett Martin from the Screaming Trees. Great album.


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> I actually meant "Alice in Chains" - the green one with the 3 legged dog on the cover. But Facelift is another great one. Dirt was awesome too. Man, I miss AIC.


Yeah great band. I was one of the only guys I knew that had Sap before it was widely known. Wasn't big on the dog cover album though. They started to get a little weird by then. Dirt was good, but I think Facelift was the best - in your face modern rock and roll. Jar of Flies was a work of art, but way mellow.


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Another one that I forgot is "Above" by Mad Season. It was a super group with Layne Staley from Alice in Chains, Mike McCready from Pearl Jam and Barrett Martin from the Screaming Trees. Great album.


Indeed! That was good. Came across like an experiment that actually resulted in some great tunes. Definitely not a polished production, but there was some good stuff there.


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## Marc (May 4, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Another one that I forgot is "Above" by Mad Season. It was a super group with Layne Staley from Alice in Chains, Mike McCready from Pearl Jam and Barrett Martin from the Screaming Trees. Great album.



As was Temple of the Dog...


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## Greg (May 4, 2006)

Speaking of Alice in Chains, I actually saw them open for Van Halen in '91. First concert, second row, Hartford Civic Center. We really didn't know who they were. I remember a lot of "boos".... :lol:


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## noski (May 4, 2006)

*Rock Albums*

When you wear this topic out, can we progress to Classic Rock so us old farts and fartresses have a chance?


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## skibum1321 (May 4, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> As was Temple of the Dog...


I was gonna say them but I didn't know if we would really call that hard rock. That would then lead to Pearl Jam and so on...


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## Marc (May 4, 2006)

Yeah, I suppose that album was more what you would call "Rock Ballade" even though I despise that term.

But "River of Deceit" isn't exactly hard rock either...


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## awf170 (May 4, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Metallica's black album?.



:uzi:

I hate that Cd. So over rated IMO.  I would say Master of Puppets is the best hardrock album.  Battery freakin rocks.


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## roark (May 4, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> :uzi:
> 
> I hate that Cd. So over rated IMO. I would say Master of Puppets is the best hardrock album. Battery freakin rocks.


I agree about the Black album. I sold it back to the local record store the day after I got it. Master of Puppets changed my concept of hard rock/metal and inspired me to pick up the bass. Now that hardly play anymore Orion is one the basslines I still remember.


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## roark (May 4, 2006)

I might still have to give my vore to Zep II however...


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## skibum1321 (May 4, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> But "River of Deceit" isn't exactly hard rock either...


True, but overall the album has more of a hard feel than the Temple of the Dog stuff.

I would say that Temple of the Dog was for Layne Staley what A Perfect Circle is for Maynard. A less-angry side project.


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## Sky (May 4, 2006)

Wow...Andyzee nominates Fireball.  I absolutely love that album.

re: Robyn Trower, Bridge of Sighs...great song.  Don't care for the rest of the album.

Black Sabbath.  Not too keen on the debut album...but Paranoid, Master of Reality, Vol IV (Supernaught *drool*)  are cool.  Sabbath Bloddy Sabbath was ...meh.

I'm still stuck on meeting all the criteria....Hard Rock. all good songs top to bottom.  Otherwise....I'd have to nominate Blue Oyster Cult Tyranny and Mutation.  Side one is killer...Red and Black, Hot Rails to Hell.  Side two...meh.


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## BeanoNYC (May 4, 2006)

Oh, here's a good hard rock album, but not the best of all time:

White Zombie: la Sexorcisto: Devil Music, Vol. 1

 ... oh and these guys are a bit more indie than hard rock but they get an honorable mention from me: 

The Arctic Monkeys :  Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not.

I got tix to see these guys in June....Psyched!  Check em out if you get a chance.


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## Zand (May 4, 2006)

I have a few:

Alice in Chains: Facelift and Dirt were awesome. I didn't really like the green one as an album, but there's a few great songs on there. Sap and Jar of Flies had a few good songs as well.

Stone Temple Pilots: Core

Metallica: Master of Puppets (WTF was St. Anger? That one sucked)

Soundgarden: Superunknown (SPOONMAN)

Zeppelin II

AC/DC: Black In Black, For Those About to Rock, High Voltage, Highway to Hell, Razors Edge, Dirty Deeds

Too many to name...


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## riverc0il (May 4, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Yeah great band. I was one of the only guys I knew that had Sap before it was widely known. Wasn't big on the dog cover album though. They started to get a little weird by then. Dirt was good, but I think Facelift was the best - in your face modern rock and roll. Jar of Flies was a work of art, but way mellow.


what crack are you smoking! DIRT is hands down the best AIC album.  though for drives to ski areas, i have always favored jar of flies/sap combo.  i think we need to define "hard rock" as AIC, soundgarden, PJ, mad season, etc. are in the grudge/alternative sub-genre.


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## riverc0il (May 4, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> True, but overall the album has more of a hard feel than the Temple of the Dog stuff.
> 
> I would say that Temple of the Dog was for Layne Staley what A Perfect Circle is for Maynard. A less-angry side project.


layne wasn' invovlved with temple of the dog, iirc.  that was chris corrnell and matt from SG and some of the mother love bone/PJ boys.  tool is my favorite band but i don't find anything interesting about APC.  mad season was a phenomenal project, too bad layne staley couldn't find anything to live for besides drugs.


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## riverc0il (May 4, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> I hate that Cd. So over rated IMO.  I would say Master of Puppets is the best hardrock album.  Battery freakin rocks.


i used to really enjoy metallica... i recently pulled out "ride the lightening" and it didn't do anything for me.  master was a great album as well, but i suspect i wouldn't feel it much any more.  every since reload, i have held metallica with particular disdain and contempt.


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## andyzee (May 4, 2006)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> Wow...Andyzee nominates Fireball. I absolutely love that album.
> 
> re: Robyn Trower, Bridge of Sighs...great song. Don't care for the rest of the album.
> 
> ...


 
Hehe, I think we're showing our ages; Deep Purple, Sabath, BOC....


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## Marc (May 4, 2006)

Yeah, Steve, you're right with the grunge label.  The Seattle bands, while different when compared with each other, really are variations on the same theme and not really hard rock when you get right down to it, even though a lot of it if listened to in a vacuum (figuratively speaking of course) can be classfied as hard rock, the whole of that movement was it's own thing.


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## Npage148 (May 4, 2006)

BeanoNYC said:
			
		

> Oh, here's a good hard rock album, but not the best of all time:
> 
> White Zombie: la Sexorcisto: Devil Music, Vol. 1



I LOVE that album.  It rocks everytime i listen to it.  I love their use of sound clips.  Totally random and great.  Plus my favorite quote come from Thunder Kiss '65,   "I never try anything, I just do it"  AND i cant walk into a bookstore with out shooting suspicous glances at everyone and mumbling "Meanwhile, behind the facade of this innocent looking bookstore..."

Some of my favrorite hard rock albums are Vulger Display of Power by Pantera, Undertow by Tool, The self titled Clutch album, and the self titles Soulfly album.


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## riverc0il (May 4, 2006)

Npage148 said:
			
		

> Some of my favrorite hard rock albums are Vulger Display of Power by Pantera, Undertow by Tool, The self titled Clutch album, and the self titles Soulfly album.


oh man, if we are going to include tool in the hard rock genre, put me down for lateralus as the all time best album ever regardless of genre but especially of hard rock.  10,000 days already en route, can't wait, the new single rocks it.  but i don't consider tool hard rock.  a lot of people would put tool in the progressive rock sub-genre, but i don't buy that either.  tool doesn't really fit into any sub-genre.  any band that uses mixed time signatures isn't hard rock, imo


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## Mike P. (May 4, 2006)

A lot of good choices, I buy very few tape or CD's I doubt I can pick one, maybe a top 10

Appetite for Destruction
The Black Album
Back in Black
10 (Pearl Jam)
Who's Next
Quadrephenia
Aerosmith Rocks

okay seven


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## pepsi (May 4, 2006)

When we were supposed to pick our 5 (or was it 10?) CD's for a desert island a while back I couldn't narrow it down below 25 or so so I decided not to go and I don't think I ever listed any.

Then I think there was the best band and  I couldn't even get down to my 5 favorite. 

Now you want me to pick one album?

I can't do it. 

Everytime someone lists one I hadn't thought about it adds to my list and there are none I want to take off. 

Lots of good choices here though


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## ski_resort_observer (May 4, 2006)

Allman Brothers - Live at the Filmore East

Eric Clapton - Layla


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## Terry (May 5, 2006)

Aerosmith toys in the attic for me. All good songs, and always brings back good memories.:beer:


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## skibum1321 (May 5, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> layne wasn' invovlved with temple of the dog, iirc.  that was chris corrnell and matt from SG and some of the mother love bone/PJ boys.  tool is my favorite band but i don't find anything interesting about APC.  mad season was a phenomenal project, too bad layne staley couldn't find anything to live for besides drugs.


Yeah,  I meant Mad Season there, not Temple of the Dog.

I really do like APC too. It's for a different mood than Tool though.


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## skibum1321 (May 5, 2006)

ski_resort_observer said:
			
		

> Allman Brothers - Live at the Filmore East
> 
> Eric Clapton - Layla


I don't think we can define either of those as hard rock.


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## kickstand (May 5, 2006)

man, I could spend all day replying to this thread, especially since we're blurring all the lines of grunge, hair bands, classic rock, metal, etc....

whoever said "Appetite For Destruction", I'm there.  IMHO, best album of the 1980's.  Also in that group would be:
"Back In Black"
"Pyromania"
"Hysteria"
"Kill 'Em All" (I'm partial to that over "Master")
"The Joshua Tree"
"5150"
"Operation:Mindcrime" (listen to the words sometime)
"Mechanical Resonance" (I'm a huge Tesla fan)

as for the 1990's, I would have to go with "Ten" as the best, as much for when it was released and the movement is helped start than it's musical content.  I think "Vs." was probably better musically.  And I much prefered Pearl Jam over Nirvana.  Then there was a whole slew of others - AIC, Soundgarden, STP, Live, Smashing Pumpkins ("Gish" - very underrated), "new" Metallica, Green Day, Counting Crows, Dave Matthews....the list could go on and on....

other random comments about previous posts:
- the Skid Row album is good, but their 2nd album "Slave to the Grind" is better
- way too many classic rock albums to choose from
- minus "Coda", I think it's impossible to pick your favorite Led Zeppelin album
- too much cross-polination going on with Temple of the Dog, Mad Season, Mother Love Bone....I get 'em all confused....


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## andyzee (May 5, 2006)

Terry said:
			
		

> Aerosmith toys in the attic for me. All good songs, and always brings back good memories.:beer:


 
Any Aerosmith album belongs on top, IMHO


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## Greg (May 5, 2006)

kickstand said:
			
		

> whoever said "Appetite For Destruction", I'm there.  IMHO, best album of the 1980's.


That was me. I agree with you. From a pure hard rock standpoint, Appettite is hard to beat. Five piece rock band with in your face riffs, bluesy soloist, and a charismatic front man. Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet Child O Mine, Paradise City, Nighttrain, Mr. Brownstone, Out to get me, etc. Great, great stuff. Mr. Brownstone is such a cool song. G N' R Lies was good too. After that I think G N' R really jumped the shark.


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## skibum1321 (May 5, 2006)

Anthrax is currently my favorite metal band, although I wouldn't put any of their albums as the best of all time.


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## kickstand (May 5, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Anthrax is currently my favorite metal band, although I wouldn't put any of their albums as the best of all time.


quick - name that tune:

Charlie!
Beat the beat, the beat you beat
The only thing harder is the smell of my feet

"State of Euphoria" - awesome album....


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## roark (May 5, 2006)

kickstand said:
			
		

> quick - name that tune:
> 
> Charlie!
> Beat the beat, the beat you beat
> ...


 
I'm the man !


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## roark (May 5, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Anthrax is currently my favorite metal band, although I wouldn't put any of their albums as the best of all time.


I actually recently got back into them. We've come for you all is pretty good. One of my favorite bands in the late 80s - early 90's. Stopped listening to much metal until system of a down got me back into it.


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## Mike P. (May 5, 2006)

I'd add Joshua Tree to m list also.  Unsure if I'd pick 5150 or VH II if I had to pick one VH album.  Paranoid was the 2nd album I bought (I'm old - Alice - the orginal - Schools Out was the first)

I borrowed a friends Metallica's albums many years ago & made a tape of my 'best of songs', prior to the black album coming out.  I taped 'Fade To Black', 'Seek & Destroy', 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' & 'Sanitarium'.  but I don't know which albums they came from.  If they are on one album, I'd have to call that a top ten too!


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## Greg (May 5, 2006)

Mike P. said:
			
		

> I'd add Joshua Tree to m list also.  Unsure if I'd pick 5150 or VH II if I had to pick one VH album.  Paranoid was the 2nd album I bought (I'm old - Alice - the orginal - Schools Out was the first)
> 
> I borrowed a friends Metallica's albums many years ago & made a tape of my 'best of songs', prior to the black album coming out.  I taped 'Fade To Black', 'Seek & Destroy', 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' & 'Sanitarium'.  but I don't know which albums they came from.  If they are on one album, I'd have to call that a top ten too!


I don't think Van Halen had a single album that was truly great start to finish. They all have good songs with a lot of filler in there. I always liked Fair Warning.

'Fade To Black': Ride the Lightening
'Seek & Destroy': Kill 'Em All
'For Whom the Bell Tolls': Ride the Lightening
Sanitarium': Master of Puppets

That's from memory - might be off on those. At the end of high school/beginning of college I was in a hard rock/metal band. Metallica was one of our mainstays.


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## skibum1321 (May 5, 2006)

Some of the other bands that were said were borderline hard rock, but come on, U2 is most definitely not hard rock or even close to it.


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## cbcbd (May 5, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Yeah great band. I was one of the only guys I knew that had Sap before it was widely known. Wasn't big on the dog cover album though. They started to get a little weird by then. Dirt was good, but I think Facelift was the best - in your face modern rock and roll. Jar of Flies was a work of art, but way mellow.


You too?   I thought I was the only person to buy SAP as soon as it came out... listening to the whole thing over and over again (can't forget Chris Cornell's appeareance on it) and waiting for Dirt to come out. AIC is an all time favorite of mine.



			
				Sky521 said:
			
		

> Black Sabbath.  Not too keen on the debut album...but Paranoid, Master of Reality, Vol IV (Supernaught *drool*)  are cool.  Sabbath Bloddy Sabbath was ...meh.
> .


I like Black Sabbath, "Black Sabbath". A band I was in during college basically knew the whole thing and we'd often pick a song or two from that album to play during shows.  Oddly enough, the only song from Vol IV that we knew and played out was Supernaught - I played the drums and sang for that one.. it was always a blast, especially during the drum jam part where everyone would be banging on something.

As for the albums:
-Appetite for Destruction (right on - really makes you realize how good GnR really were and how it's a shame that Axl is an idiot and they don't make great music anymore)
-Black Sabbath self titled
-Tool - Aenima (Lateralus is a masterpiece, but this one has it all and really got them into their more complex compositions)
-RATM self titled - so hard, so good
-Who's Next


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## cbcbd (May 5, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> That and I think Audislave would have been better off with Kim Thayil rather than Tom Morello.  Not to stir the pot or anything...


But then the sound would've been all Soundgarden - not saying that Hiro and Matt Cameron (great drummer, love the style) didn't contribute, but Tom Morello's guitar with Chris Cornell's vocals was what made Audioslave what it is without being too much RATM or Soundgarden.


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## riverc0il (May 5, 2006)

> Then there was a whole slew of others - AIC, Soundgarden, STP, Live, Smashing Pumpkins ("Gish" - very underrated), "new" Metallica, Green Day, Counting Crows, Dave Matthews....the list could go on and on....


whoa whoa whoa, green day, counting crows, and dmb are not hard rock, let alone the 90s grudge sound :lol:



> That was me. I agree with you. From a pure hard rock standpoint, Appettite is hard to beat. Five piece rock band with in your face riffs, bluesy soloist, and a charismatic front man. Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet Child O Mine, Paradise City, Nighttrain, Mr. Brownstone, Out to get me, etc. Great, great stuff. Mr. Brownstone is such a cool song. G N' R Lies was good too. After that I think G N' R really jumped the shark.


i am down for a vote for appetite for the best "hard rock" album of "all time." though of "all time" really is only a period of about 20-30 years or so.  funny how genres change, black sabbeth used to be called metal, now it is just hard rock :lol: GNR was my favorite band fr a long long time.  i didn't get into them until the UYI trilogy of don't cry, november rain, and estranged.  i don't think GNR jumped the shark until the spagetti incident (some might argue the stones cover of sympathy for the devil, but actually like the remake).  UYI was an outstanding pair of albums, sooooo many hits off those albums too.

the best guns songs were not the singles though.  take rocket queen off appetite for destruction, kicks!!!  night train, just plain old mean.  also like how they stripped down you're crazy from AFD to lies.  UYI-I was just off the hook.  i still remember hearing the opening riff to right next door to hell.  coma is amongst the best 10+ epic songs.  the entire last four songs off that album are amongst the best 25 minutes of GNR including one of my favorites, dead horse.  UYI-II seemed to get the b-sides of UYI-I, never cared much for II.

any ways, look at how many hit singles GNR had.  probably the highest amount per album in the history of hard rock.  appetite got it started and was the most 'raw' sounding before axl went nuts o' perfectionist.


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## riverc0il (May 5, 2006)

ahhhh, RATM self titled.  not sure if this should be qualified as hard rock.  i think this is perhaps the must listen to album of the 1990s.  when ever i get complacent, i love to crank this one off and remind me of all that needs to be improved in this world.  getting pissed off is a good thing sometimes.  i saw audioslave at avalon in boston during their first tour.  i completely hate audioslave, they succeeded in not sounding anything like either soundgarden or RATM... which is their loss because the only reason audioslave sold tons of albums is because of the line up, terrible rock albums, imo.  tom is still a sick guitar player, best thing about audioslave was getting to see him shred.  soundgarden was one of my favorite bands of the 90s but cornell is past his prime.


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## cbcbd (May 5, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i completely hate audioslave, they succeeded in not sounding anything like either soundgarden or RATM...


That's mainly the reason why I could never really get into them. The riffs and music were so RATM, but the singing was Chris Cornell... and there's no mistaking Chris Cornell's voice or Morello's style - their styles are very unique from other vocalists/guitarists, which means that they can't blend in.  It was a mix of two bands that I loved and it was obvious.  
And it's amazing... in some songs you can tell very well which guitar parts were Tom and which parts of the music Chris put in there. Audioslave is ok, but it'll never vibe well with me.


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## YardSaleDad (May 5, 2006)

*You guys are missing one*

Nazareth - Hair of the Dog


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## Zand (May 5, 2006)

cbcbd said:
			
		

> That's mainly the reason why I could never really get into them. The riffs and music were so RATM, but the singing was Chris Cornell... and there's no mistaking Chris Cornell's voice or Morello's style - their styles are very unique from other vocalists/guitarists, which means that they can't blend in.  It was a mix of two bands that I loved and it was obvious.
> And it's amazing... in some songs you can tell very well which guitar parts were Tom and which parts of the music Chris put in there. Audioslave is ok, but it'll never vibe well with me.



Excuse my stupidity with acronyms, but who's RATM?


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## WICKEDBUMPER (May 5, 2006)

back in black.
Neil Young's Weld.  I know, Neil Young? weld can be used to strip paint.
any Led zep.


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## WICKEDBUMPER (May 5, 2006)

Zand said:
			
		

> Excuse my stupidity with acronyms, but who's RATM?


Rage Against The Machine.


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## Zand (May 5, 2006)

*Smacks own head* Should've had that one. Don't know how it slipped my mind. I remember when I was somewhat little and I called it "Balls on Parade".


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## Marc (May 6, 2006)

cbcbd said:
			
		

> But then the sound would've been all Soundgarden - not saying that Hiro and Matt Cameron (great drummer, love the style) didn't contribute, but Tom Morello's guitar with Chris Cornell's vocals was what made Audioslave what it is without being too much RATM or Soundgarden.



The sound would have been _more_ Soundgarden, which, IMHO would have been a good thing.

I was just never a fan of Morello's solos.  His style is too disjointed, clipped and annoying.  It's kind of like listening to Mick Jagger sing.  He'll never hold a note for longer than a second or two because he knows he's never singing on pitch.  Every note and chord Morello plays in a solo is dissonent and therefore cannot be held for much more than a second without sounding terrible.  Thayil could make his guitar sing.  It really was a better match with Cornell.

Besides that, Thayil was very versatile... compare for example, Fell on Black Days, Half, and Burden In My Hand...


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## riverc0il (May 6, 2006)

marc, i gotta disagree with you about thayil vs. morello, i think they are both not very versitle, or at least never showed it.  thayil was always about playing lots of notes, playing them fast, and coming up with weird and bizarre note patterns (not bluesy, never that!).  i really enjoy his guitar, but when i listen back i just don't see a lot of versitility. with morello's solos, i think they are the only thing to like about audioslave.  he isn't versitile either, but just as much a great guitar player as thayil.  part of RATM's MO was to be dissonent, his guitar was a perfect fit.  and i think a lot of his solos did sing.  bombtrack for example... very clean, clear, and precise at one point... just floats through the speakers.  any ways, i see the two as similar in having a very particular style but those particular styles were night and day from each other and i appreciate both for what they were.  what is thayil up to these days?


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## Marc (May 6, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> marc, i gotta disagree with you about thayil vs. morello, i think they are both not very versitle, or at least never showed it.  thayil was always about playing lots of notes, playing them fast, and coming up with weird and bizarre note patterns (not bluesy, never that!).  i really enjoy his guitar, but when i listen back i just don't see a lot of versitility. with morello's solos, i think they are the only thing to like about audioslave.  he isn't versitile either, but just as much a great guitar player as thayil.  part of RATM's MO was to be dissonent, his guitar was a perfect fit.  and i think a lot of his solos did sing.  bombtrack for example... very clean, clear, and precise at one point... just floats through the speakers.  any ways, i see the two as similar in having a very particular style but those particular styles were night and day from each other and i appreciate both for what they were.  what is thayil up to these days?



Steve, according to wikipeida... 



> Since then, Thayil has played guitar for Pigeonhed, with the Presidents of the United States of America, played on Dave Grohl's metal side-project PROBOT, and No WTO Combo with Jello Biafra and Krist Novoselic, and has also worked on other projects.



Re: Morello and Thayil... well, I can agree to disagree.  I admittedly have not heard a lot of Morello's stuff with Rage, just the real popular singles, because I just never really go into their style of music.  I'm judging his playing almost exclusively based on his stuff with Audioslave.


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## riverc0il (May 6, 2006)

morello is definitely better with RATM stuff.  audioslave did absolutely nothing for me depite the fact that i abolutely love those guys in their original groups.

thanks for the quote from wikipedia.  i love that site, but i haven't trained myself to look there when ever a ask "i wonder......"  i can't beleive he played with POT USA!!!  thayill created some off the wall stuff, i loved his work with sound garden.  lots of weird time signatures like "never the machine forever" on dotus.  he definitely has a more musically interesting song composition style than morello.


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## kickstand (May 7, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> whoa whoa whoa, green day, counting crows, and dmb are not hard rock, let alone the 90s grudge sound :lol:
> 
> 
> i am down for a vote for appetite for the best "hard rock" album of "all time." though of "all time" really is only a period of about 20-30 years or so.  funny how genres change, black sabbeth used to be called metal, now it is just hard rock :lol: GNR was my favorite band fr a long long time.  i didn't get into them until the UYI trilogy of don't cry, november rain, and estranged.  i don't think GNR jumped the shark until the spagetti incident (some might argue the stones cover of sympathy for the devil, but actually like the remake).  UYI was an outstanding pair of albums, sooooo many hits off those albums too.
> ...



OK, I'll give you CC and DMB (I was lumping all 90's music together), but Green Day not hard rock, nor grunge????  What would you classify it as?  Most of it I would call Trash, but I don't think that's a genre.  If it's not "hard rock" or "grunge", I wonder what it is.  "Dookie" came out in 1994 (maybe 1993).  That's smack in the middle of grunge-ville.

agreed, GNR's best stuff were never singles.  "Rocket Queen" and "Coma", IMHO, are in the Top 5 GNR Songs.  Also partial to "Get In The Ring".


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## riverc0il (May 7, 2006)

> OK, I'll give you CC and DMB (I was lumping all 90's music together), but Green Day not hard rock, nor grunge???? What would you classify it as? Most of it I would call Trash, but I don't think that's a genre. If it's not "hard rock" or "grunge", I wonder what it is. "Dookie" came out in 1994 (maybe 1993). That's smack in the middle of grunge-ville.


it doesn't matter what time a record came out, else you could call nine inch nails grunge.  green day was the first major rock concert i ever attended back in 1994, but green day had a full release and some EP releases before dookie and had the current line up circa 90-91 iirc. green day was a bay area band out of CA, far removed from the then developing grudge sound of seattle.  not to mention the bands musical origins are punk in nature.  though green day hardly stays true to punk origins, i prefer to look at green day and the other bands that followed green day like blink182, etc. as pop punk, commercial punk, what ever.  green day is about as grunge as sonic youth is classic rock.  man, i love a good genre discussion!!!


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## kickstand (May 7, 2006)

I know all about Green Day's roots and the stories of how they alienated their original follower by "selling out" (see: "Good Riddance").  As for lumping them, CC, DMB, whoever into a grunge genre, when a radio station I was listening to once in a while was changing formats to hard rock/grunge, those were 3 of bands getting mixed in with their old format to lure new listeners to the station.  When NIN came out with "Downward Spiral", the song "Closer" was getting played on all forms of modern rock stations, even though "Closer" is more radio-friendly than the stuff on "Pretty Hate Machine" and "Broken".  Sure, you can call NIN industrial and Green Day punk, but I can also lump bands like The Allman Brothers and Lyndyrd Skynyrd into 3 or 4 different genres as well.  I guess it all depends on your point of view, or even the song itself.


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## skibum1321 (May 8, 2006)

kickstand said:
			
		

> I know all about Green Day's roots and the stories of how they alienated their original follower by "selling out" (see: "Good Riddance").  As for lumping them, CC, DMB, whoever into a grunge genre, when a radio station I was listening to once in a while was changing formats to hard rock/grunge, those were 3 of bands getting mixed in with their old format to lure new listeners to the station.  When NIN came out with "Downward Spiral", the song "Closer" was getting played on all forms of modern rock stations, even though "Closer" is more radio-friendly than the stuff on "Pretty Hate Machine" and "Broken".  Sure, you can call NIN industrial and Green Day punk, but I can also lump bands like The Allman Brothers and Lyndyrd Skynyrd into 3 or 4 different genres as well.  I guess it all depends on your point of view, or even the song itself.


I have to agree with River here that Green Day is not grunge at all. There are none of the real characteristics of the grunge sound (from Wikipedia - Grunge music is generally characterized by "dirty" guitar, strong riffs, and heavy drumming). Green Day is definitely more of a straight pop-punk band and I would group them more with the Offspring than with grunge.


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## Max (May 8, 2006)

I guess it boils down to what you consider "Hard Rock."  Back in the mid 60's / mid 70's I  would have nominated;

Amboy Dukes  -  "The Amboy Dukes" (with Ted Nugent before anyone knew who he was)
The Who - "Who's Next"
MC5 - "Kick Out The Jams" (I might be mistaken on the album title though)
Deep Purple - "Fireball"
Ten Years After - "Live"
Led Zeppelin - I forget the title, but the album with Stairway To Heaven

Pretty tame to you young people (under 40) but it was cutting edge back then.


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## ChileMass (May 8, 2006)

Green Day isn't grunge - they are the new generation's Ramones.  

No definition is necessary.  C'mon, it's rock 'n roll fer Chrissakes, not brain surgery.  You know hard rock when you hear it, and if you're older than 40 you consider Sabbath hard rock.  If not, they probably put you to sleep.  

Hendrix is primarily hard rock. Zeppelin qualifies as hard rock for no reason other than "Black Dog" on Zep IV.  GNR was great but destined to implode.  Nirvana and grunge in general I could take or leave.  Emo makes me crazy due to its preoccupation with death and negativity.  

My personal vote for single hottest metal song of all time is "Mississippi Queen" by Mountain.  2 minutes and 30 seconds of shredding guitar by fat Leslie West......


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## cbcbd (May 8, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> morello is definitely better with RATM stuff.  audioslave did absolutely nothing for me depite the fact that i abolutely love those guys in their original groups.


My sentiments exactly.


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## kickstand (May 8, 2006)

ChileMass said:
			
		

> No definition is necessary.  C'mon, it's rock 'n roll fer Chrissakes, not brain surgery.  You know hard rock when you hear it, and if you're older than 40 you consider Sabbath hard rock.  If not, they probably put you to sleep.



BINGO!  Grunge, metal, classic - all subdivisions of the rock-and-roll genre, IMHO.  Well, said, Chile.....


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## LisaBatt (May 8, 2006)

*I think my chocies are more suited for favorite progessive/symphonic rock...*

The stuff I loved in the days when people my age group were more into the stones, the who , etc       Genisis -The lamb Lies down on Broadway, ELP- Brain Salad Surgery, Tull-Aqualung, Deep Purple-Made in Japan.     Hey-these music threads are good to keep my mind off of missing skiing so much!!!!! Keeep it going!!!!!!!


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## Greg (May 8, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i am down for a vote for appetite for the best "hard rock" album of "all time." though of "all time" really is only a period of about 20-30 years or so.  funny how genres change, black sabbeth used to be called metal, now it is just hard rock :lol: GNR was my favorite band fr a long long time.  i didn't get into them until the UYI trilogy of don't cry, november rain, and estranged.  i don't think GNR jumped the shark until the spagetti incident (some might argue the stones cover of sympathy for the devil, but actually like the remake).  UYI was an outstanding pair of albums, sooooo many hits off those albums too.
> 
> the best guns songs were not the singles though.  take rocket queen off appetite for destruction, kicks!!!  night train, just plain old mean.  also like how they stripped down you're crazy from AFD to lies.  UYI-I was just off the hook.  i still remember hearing the opening riff to right next door to hell.  coma is amongst the best 10+ epic songs.  the entire last four songs off that album are amongst the best 25 minutes of GNR including one of my favorites, dead horse.  UYI-II seemed to get the b-sides of UYI-I, never cared much for II.
> 
> any ways, look at how many hit singles GNR had.  probably the highest amount per album in the history of hard rock.  appetite got it started and was the most 'raw' sounding before axl went nuts o' perfectionist.


Ewww. Yuck. I think both Use Your Illusion albums sucked, big time, especially after Appetitie and Lies (two totally different projects, mind you). When I think of AFD, I think of 5 scumbags drunk and stoned in some smoky bar pounding out great rock tunes. When I think of either UYI albums, I think of that MTV video (Don't Cry, I think) when in addition to the band, there's a keyboardist, backup singer chicks, a guy with a tambourine, etc... They went on tour with a horn section too. Sort of lost their edgy roots, I think.

I agree that Nightrain was an awesome tune. So was Mr. Brownstone.


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## Steve Mach (Jan 8, 2013)

Can't argue with Appetite for Destruction.


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## Nick (Jan 8, 2013)

Hmm... growing up in the 80's / 90's I was always a big fan of Pearl Jam, but most of my music collection is 90's rock. I grew up in Connecticut listening to Radio 104. I even had Radio 104 stickers all over my mountain bike (haha). 

It's been mostly digitized now, I find myself listening to more and more older music (70's / 80's) and less and less 90's rock. I dunno why. I wonder if I've outgrown it? It just doesn't have the same emotional effect it did on my in my more formative years. I still enjoy it and like it, just doesn't "impact" me the same way.


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## ScottySkis (Jan 8, 2013)

Nick said:


> Hmm... growing up in the 80's / 90's I was always a big fan of Pearl Jam, but most of my music collection is 90's rock. I grew up in Connecticut listening to Radio 104. I even had Radio 104 stickers all over my mountain bike (haha).
> 
> It's been mostly digitized now, I find myself listening to more and more older music (70's / 80's) and less and less 90's rock. I dunno why. I wonder if I've outgrown it? It just doesn't have the same emotional effect it did on my in my more formative years. I still enjoy it and like it, just doesn't "impact" me the same way.



I use to Nirvana, now I think it is okay teenage years I guess.

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 9, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I use to Nirvana, now I think it is okay teenage years I guess.



That was the first thing that came to my mind as well, but after thinking about it I don't think Nirvana quite fits in the category of hard rock.

I've always been a fan of Led Zeppelin, even though I wouldn't necessarily call them "hard"


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## legalskier (Jan 9, 2013)

And the best _live _hard rock album is...



Live at Leeds


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## Mildcat (Jan 9, 2013)

Can't believe no one has mentioned Motorhead Ace of spades!!! If I had to choose one it would be Back in Black. Honorable mentions to Ozzy-Diary of a Madman, Hellacopters-Payin the Dues, Clutch-Blast Tyrant, C.O.C-Deliverance, Fu Manchu-King of the Road, AIC-Dirt, Kyuss-Wretch, Sabbath-paranoid.


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## Riverskier (Jan 9, 2013)

If I had to pick one I would say Guns n' Roses Appetite for Destruction. Plenty of other worthy candidates though. My favorite band of all time is Type O Negative, but most people haven't even heard of them.

Nirvana takes the title of "most overrated band of all time" by a landslide.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 9, 2013)

Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness


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## ScottySkis (Jan 9, 2013)

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

Led Zepplin #3 for me.


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## hammer (Jan 9, 2013)

AC/DC Back in Black


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## kickstand (Jan 10, 2013)

It's kinda hard to beat "Appetite for Destruction", especially if you grew up with the late 80's, early 90's rock....a few others to consider, that I don't think anyone else has mentioned:

"Ten" - Pearl Jam (I've always favored them over Nirvana)
"Pyromania" - Def Leppard
"The Number of the Beast" - Iron Maiden
"Van Halen" - Van Halen

I would put some albums, such as "Dark Side of the Moon" and "Hotel California" above most of the ones mentioned here, but I don't consider those hard rock at all.


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 10, 2013)

RHCP - Californication


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## Mpdsnowman (Jan 10, 2013)




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## kickstand (Jan 10, 2013)

^^^

Almost included that one in my previous list.  Fantastic album, their best by far, IMHO....


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## twinplanx (Jan 10, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> That was the first thing that came to my mind as well, but after thinking about it I don't think Nirvana quite fits in the category of hard rock.
> 
> I've always been a fan of Led Zeppelin, even though I wouldn't necessarily call them "hard"



ok I get Nirvana not quite fitting in the hard rock category, but IMHO Led Zeppelin is absolutely "hard" They set the bar for the rock & roll lifestyle. Has any other band before it since had there own jet? So my vote for greatest hard rock album of all time goes to Led Zeppelin 4 I think that's the one with Stairway..? Also would like to give an Honorary Mention to Master of Puppets!!


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## deadheadskier (Jan 10, 2013)

Iron Maiden has a plane and their lead singer flies it during their tours.  Take that Robert Plant.  :lol:

I'd say Zep I-III are harder rocking than IV, but they're all very good.


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## Mpdsnowman (Jan 10, 2013)

I forgot about Iron Maiden...Hell they fly their own jet lol


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 11, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> ok I get Nirvana not quite fitting in the hard rock category, but IMHO Led Zeppelin is absolutely "hard" They set the bar for the rock & roll lifestyle. Has any other band before it since had there own jet? So my vote for greatest hard rock album of all time goes to Led Zeppelin 4 I think that's the one with Stairway..? Also would like to give an Honorary Mention to Master of Puppets!!



Yes, I do think they are hard rock, but I said they weren't because I was judging by today's standards


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## Geoff (Jan 11, 2013)

skibum1321 said:


> Some of the other bands that were said were borderline hard rock, but come on, U2 is most definitely not hard rock or even close to it.



Yep.   That's because, unlike most of the bands listed in this thread, U2 doesn't suck.

/troll


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## twinplanx (Jan 11, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> Yes, I do think they are hard rock, but I said they weren't because I was judging by today's standards



that makes sense, but would you agree that Zeppelin paved the way?  I couldn't every begin to imagine what music today would be without Led Zeppelin backing the day...


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## deadheadskier (Jan 11, 2013)

Geoff said:


> Yep.   That's because, unlike most of the bands listed in this thread, U2 doesn't suck.
> 
> /troll



U2 doesn't suck???  If someone stuck a gun to my head and said you need to listen to Barry Manilow or U2 for 24 hours straight, I'd have a really hard time picking.  At least I could laugh at Manilow.


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## witch hobble (Jan 11, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> Yes, I do think they are hard rock, but I said they weren't because I was judging by today's standards


They are your overlords!


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## darent (Jan 12, 2013)

young crowd here thinks hard rock started in the 80's or 90's, how about jerry lee lewis, live, great balls of fire tour!!


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## ScottySkis (Jan 12, 2013)

Ozzie Osborne, the Who.


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## HD333 (Jan 12, 2013)

Metallica Black Album.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2013)

HD333 said:


> Metallica Black Album.



I'm more of a Master of Puppets fan, but the Black Album is for certain fantastic.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Lot's of favorites but two that stick out in my head right now are Montrose (1st album) & Mountain (Climbing album).


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2013)

kickstand said:


> "Ten" - Pearl Jam (I've always favored them over Nirvana)



That would probably be my #2 pick after Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

Pearl Jam >>>>>>>>>>> Nirvana.

VS. would also rank highly although I doubt anyone would argue it's better than Ten.


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## Edd (Jan 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> U2 doesn't suck???  If someone stuck a gun to my head and said you need to listen to Barry Manilow or U2 for 24 hours straight, I'd have a really hard time picking.  At least I could laugh at Manilow.



I'm not going to say U2 sucks but I will say The Joshua Tree is perhaps the most overrated album ever. 

Um, that's Mr. Manilow to you, sir.


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## kickstand (Jan 14, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> That would probably be my #2 pick after Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.



I'm partial to "Gish", but have to admit I have no listened to "Mellon Collie" in its entirety.  I think I'm just sick of hearing "1979" a bazillion times over the years.  Now, "Bullet with Butterfly Wings"....I could listen to that one over and over....


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 14, 2013)

Gish is pretty raw. Great stuff but IMO the band (especially Billy, let's face it, he is 90% of the band) was just starting to come into their own.

Siamese Dream, the band really found their sound. This album is brilliant, but I give MCIS the edge because it's epic 2 disc 28-tracks of brilliance, and more diverse; being both heavier and more melodic with more styles displayed throughout the album. The band was so prolific in terms of songwriting at this point they went against the wishes of the record company and released a double disc album. This was right after the Siamese Dream B-sides "Pisces Iscariot" which is also full of great stuff (Starla is what this band calls a "B-side"??)

I enjoy all SP. In fact they are my favorite "studio band" (though they kick ass live too). Give MCIS a listen-through when you have a couple hours to spare 

Smashing Pumpkins still put on a great show, I've seen them several times since 2007 when they returned with a changing lineup. Some of their best music is the stuff from the 2007 Fillmore show... The Rose March, Peace + Love, 99 Floors, Gossamer, etc.


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## kickstand (Jan 14, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> Gish is pretty raw. Great stuff but IMO the band (especially Billy, let's face it, he is 90% of the band) was just starting to come into their own.



Bands I like who have an extensive catalog, I usually prefer their earlier stuff because its so raw.  Not a big fan of when bands start to get over-produced.  If your a fan of them, the example I always use is Incubus.  You could say the same about Metallica, depending on how you feel about the Black Album and the two Load discs.  Godsmack is another one.  The music landscape is littered with albums that could have been SOOOOO much better if the gloss was taken off.  Maybe that's another thread in here......


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## Geoff (Jan 14, 2013)

Edd said:


> I'm not going to say U2 sucks but I will say The Joshua Tree is perhaps the most overrated album ever.
> 
> Um, that's Mr. Manilow to you, sir.



Joshua Tree isn't my favorite.   I'm partial to Achtung Baby.


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## Edd (Jan 14, 2013)

Geoff said:


> Joshua Tree isn't my favorite.   I'm partial to Achtung Baby.



I remember being surprised at how much I liked that.


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## bigbog (Jan 14, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> That was the first thing that came to my mind as well, but after thinking about it I don't think Nirvana quite fits in the category of hard rock.
> 
> I've always been a fan of Led Zeppelin, even though I wouldn't necessarily call them "hard"



Agreed....they were never into the percussive-thing...where they broke their "axes/instruments" in half or bounced their guitar on the stage floor and achieved ~20' of air from it...or kicked the drumset over the edge of the stage..LOL.  Gotta love the late 70s and 80s.....when "hard" really meant a hard hit, just trashing their instruments to bits....


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## riverc0il (Jan 14, 2013)

Geoff said:


> Joshua Tree isn't my favorite.   I'm partial to Achtung Baby.


Achtung was definitely their best by far. Everything after Pop has been pretty dull and boring. I bought their first album after Pop when they "returned to their original sound" or whatever. I think I listened to it once and I've tuned them out completely since then. They were better when they were experimenting with different sounds and synths, IMO.


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## Geoff (Jan 15, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> Achtung was definitely their best by far. Everything after Pop has been pretty dull and boring. I bought their first album after Pop when they "returned to their original sound" or whatever. I think I listened to it once and I've tuned them out completely since then. They were better when they were experimenting with different sounds and synths, IMO.



I like bits & pieces of their 3 newer albums.  Elevation and remixes of Elevation (the Influx remix with the sitar, in particular) are good.   Other than Beautiful Day, that's the only remarkable song on All That You Can't Leave Behind.   Vertigo on How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb is an excellent (though overplayed) song and the album is pretty good.   No Line on the Horizon is awful.   

Of course, it's a stretch to call U2 hard rock though some of their stuff straddles the line.

Going back on-topic, I credit the Iron Man movies and The Avengers for an AC/DC revival.   It's a perfect match for the Tony Stark character.


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## Geoff (Jan 15, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Iron Maiden has a plane and their lead singer flies it during their tours.  Take that Robert Plant.  :lol:
> 
> I'd say Zep I-III are harder rocking than IV, but they're all very good.



Black Dog certainly rips.   ...and Misty Mountain Hop


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## kickstand (Jan 15, 2013)

Geoff said:


> I'm partial to Achtung Baby.



+1

Front to back, I think it's their best.  There are singles on albums after Achtung that I like better than any single song on Achtung, but those albums as a whole just don't stack up to it.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 15, 2013)

U2 is definitely not "hard" rock it's just rock.

Partial to The Joshua Tree... Achtung Baby has some great songs but about 1/3 of the songs sound like Bono wanking his ego.


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