# AT (all terrain) / Randonne bindings & skis



## cbcbd (Feb 27, 2007)

Tried searching on the subject but "AT" is too short to search anything.

Anyway, I got a taste of AT this past weekend and now am considering getting a set up. 

I'm just curious about people here that have AT:

- are there any apparent differences, cons/pros to different binding manufacturers (doesn't seem like it from a quick look) - naxo, fritschi, silvretta? 
- skis. I already have a couple options I might go for (good price) - anything in particular I should be aware of when choosing an AT ski?
- what do you use for skis/bindings and why did you choose those?

I know these are quite general, but just wanted to farm some personal experiences from people with their own gear.

-doug


----------



## ajl50 (Feb 27, 2007)

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8
pretty much absurdly full of the info you want.


----------



## skimore (Feb 27, 2007)

AT=apline touring


----------



## riverc0il (Feb 27, 2007)

fritschi is the proven long term leader in the heavy end AT binding market though the latest naxo's are right on par now that they got the bugs worked out. either one is fine. naxo's have the better uphill mode due to two moving parts under the foot. silverettas are not as wildly used but i have never heard a bad thing about them. if you prefer light weight, there is also dynafit, but it doesn't sound like you are looking into that option.

instead of asking what other people have for setups, it is more important that you decide what you want and what are the most important factors for your gear. there are so many different and various combinations of boots, bindings, and skis it would blow your mind. also, your budget may be an issue. but also long term financing should be an issue. for example, a binding that accepts alpine boots will be good for short term cost cutting but still allow you to upgrade to an AT boot down the road instead of the full investment up front.

any ski can be used as an AT ski, you do not need to specifically get an "AT ski" such as G3 or BD. i find most folks use regular alpine skis anyways, unless they are concerned about weight and long tours. again, that is your decision on how much weight you want to carry around and also what you think your primary terrain will be. powder? early season? late season? long tours? short yo yo's? lots of variables and you will need to compromise on what you need most in your ski.

so let us know why you are getting into AT gear and what you want to do with them and your budget and that sort of information and we might be able to point you in the right direction or offer some specific suggestions and options. wildsnow.com is a great resource if you haven't found it yet.

what ever you do, don't cut costs on the skins. get the top line from either BD or G3. good telescoping poles are also a requirement. and invest in layered clothing, a regular ski parka is not an option.


----------



## kbroderick (Feb 27, 2007)

Ditto what steve said on clothing, skins, and poles.  The accessories are, in many ways, more important (and may end up costing more) than the big-ticket items; if nothing else, they're easier to overlook.  I thought I had plenty of first-layer stuff last year, but I ended up spending a lot more this year on _good_ first-layer clothing--the $8 Duofold shirts I got from Campmor just don't perform as well as the $14 OR poly-wool-blend shirts from SAC, for example.

I'd go with fliplock, not screwlock, telescoping poles, as I personally hate the screwlock systems; Backcountry.com has the BD Traverse for $42ish after you apply a 15% SAC coupon (and what kind of skier wouldn't have at least one SAC coupon kicking around?).  

Personally, I run a pair of Silvretta Pure Freerides on 158cm B2s.  The advantages to the setup are weight and ease of turning in the woods; they are stable enough for me in soft snow but a bit questionable when the speeds start to pick up on firmer snow.  I'm seriously considering wider and slightly longer options for next year, although that may also lead to purchasing another set of skins.  As Steve noted, YMMV on ski choice--most people I know, even lighter ones, are on longer and wider skis; the key thing is finding a ski that you'll be happy with _and_ one that will take AT bindings (I really wanted to go with a pair of Z9s, but they don't do non-Rossi bindings).

If you're mostly interested in sidecountry yo-yo's, you may want to wait until the Marker Duke is officially released; early reports suggest that it brings true alpine binding performance to the table.  It's a heavier binding but should perform a bit better from an alpine standpoint.


----------



## aveski2000 (Feb 27, 2007)

I just pulled the trigger on these.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/BL...-with-Look-Nova-10-Alpine-Lifter-Binding.html
I figure for $111.20 including shipping (plus mounting when they get here) I can at the very least use them as rock skis, although they sound like they will be good for fast cruising.


----------



## bvibert (Feb 28, 2007)

aveski2000 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on these.
> http://www.backcountry.com/store/BL...-with-Look-Nova-10-Alpine-Lifter-Binding.html
> I figure for $111.20 including shipping (plus mounting when they get here) I can at the very least use them as rock skis, although they sound like they will be good for fast cruising.



I've had my eyes on those as well.  You realize that those are regular alpine bindings and not AT bindings though, right?


----------



## Marc (Feb 28, 2007)

aveski2000 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on these.
> http://www.backcountry.com/store/BL...-with-Look-Nova-10-Alpine-Lifter-Binding.html
> I figure for $111.20 including shipping (plus mounting when they get here) I can at the very least use them as rock skis, although they sound like they will be good for fast cruising.



I bought my Nova 10's for $80 at the Boston Ski Expo this year... not to gloat or anything...

:dunce:


----------



## cbcbd (Feb 28, 2007)

ajl50 said:


> http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8
> pretty much absurdly full of the info you want.


Good stuff, thanks!



skimore said:


> AT=apline touring


d'oh!


Thanks for the input, all. 

These are trips I'd like to do:
-skin up to gulf of slides, Tuckermans... ski down.
-skin up to huntington ravine, ice climb pinnacle gully, ski down from summit of Wash and down Tux
-and some early/late season poaching

...basically I've decided/realized that walking is not as fun/efficient as skinning

So I guess not really planning on long tours this season but eventually I'll probably get AT boots although right now it's a lot of money and using my Alpine boots will suffice.

I have a set of new 167cm Rossi B2s that are unmounted (I have alpine bindings for them) and could get some real cheap K2 167cm Shuksans (1lb/pair lighter than B2s).  

Right now I'm just trying to decide if I should:
-keep my B2s alpine and screw AT for now - $
-get AT bindings for them and sell my unused alpine bindings - $$
-keep the B2s alpine (like I had planned originally) and get the Shuksans and some AT bindings for them. - $$$

Another option would just to try to sell my B2s/bindings (and hopefully make my money back) and get the Shuksans and the AT bindings.
Many decisions...


----------



## aveski2000 (Feb 28, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I've had my eyes on those as well.  You realize that those are regular alpine bindings and not AT bindings though, right?



Yes I do. I figure for that price it's worth a try. They are supposed to have good edge hold and should be good cruisers.


----------



## riverc0il (Feb 28, 2007)

cbcbd said:


> These are trips I'd like to do:
> -skin up to gulf of slides, Tuckermans... ski down.
> -skin up to huntington ravine, ice climb pinnacle gully, ski down from summit of Wash and down Tux
> -and some early/late season poaching
> ...


occasionally, walking is more efficient than skinning but very rarely and skinning is definitely more fun. your intended use mirrors most AT skiers in the region i imagine, myself included, though i always intend to do a lot of backcountry during lift serviced season, it never seems to happen.

with those objectives, weight is probably not going to be an issue unless you are planning on skinning up and down multiple times in one day. so unless weight is a concern, i say go with an alpine setup that will be good in powder and natural snow for the early season but also able to handle tight narrow turns for post-lift-closure bumps and tight backcountry trails such as sherbie bumped or GoS. you could certainly do much worse than the B2 for those needs, Shuksans i have no experience with but 1 lb. isn't much difference for your needs. sounds like money is a factor, so go with an alpine boot compatible AT binding and hold off on the AT boots until you have done a few tours and your feet hate you  at the least, someone is going to pass you wearing grides (myself perhaps even, it happened to me too once), and you are going to be cursing your alpine boots. again, don't go cheap on the accessories, as kbroderick mentioned, it may actually cost you more to accessorize than get the main gear (which essentially boils down to the binder in your case if you use your B2s). good luck and don't hesitate to think long term! i guarantee you if you go cheap, you'll be upgrading in one or two years because you will like touring (i don't think i have ever met someone that tried AT and said it wasn't for them after the fact). also as mentioned, when you look at AT boots, you should consider dynafit compatibility. i have not had the urge to make the switch yet, but many people do decide they want to go lighter and long term planning will decrease your financial commitment in the long term.


----------



## cbcbd (Mar 1, 2007)

I will probably go for the Naxos on the B2s and hold off on the boots for now - that is one purchase I don't want to skimp or rush on.
Other than skins I got the rest pretty much covered - gear collected from winter hiking is transferable.

Dynafit? I'll have to look into it and ask some folks about it this weekend.

Thanks!


----------



## JimG. (Mar 1, 2007)

cbcbd said:


> Dynafit? I'll have to look into it and ask some folks about it this weekend.
> 
> Thanks!



Ehhh...I'd stay away from the Dynafits.

First off, they require special metal dimples on the front and rear lugs of your boots to accomodate the binding. So, by default, you're going to need to buy new boots to use them.

And while the Dynafit is probably one if not the lightest AT binding out there, it is somewhat delicate and can be a complete pain in the ass. You're going to need to carry a few high breakage spare parts in a kit if you intend to do any long distance touring with them. 

I'd stick to the Fritschi or Naxo binding. I use the Fritschi Freeride- it's pretty much bombproof.


----------



## salida (Mar 1, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I'd stick to the Fritschi or Naxo binding. I use the Fritschi Freeride- it's pretty much bombproof.



I know so many people that swear by the Fritschi...  I've heard countless people say they are bomb proof.  However, I've broken two heal peaces this season and a friend has destroyed one toe peace.  Not that it is not a good product, for simply touring I think its pretty spectacular.  However, if what you are touring to is very difficult, technical terrain that is going to put a lot of stress on your equipment, be careful.  Note - we are both 200ish lbs, ski very aggressively, and have the din on these binders maxed.  The binders were most likely broken when hammering onto glare ice and trying to edge...

EDIT:  BD has backed up their product all three times, so its hard to complain.  I just dislike a product that I can break while skiing...  Oh well.


----------



## JimG. (Mar 1, 2007)

salida said:


> I know so many people that swear by the Fritschi...  I've heard countless people say they are bomb proof.  However, I've broken two heal peaces this season and a friend has destroyed one toe peace.  Not that it is not a good product, for simply touring I think its pretty spectacular.  However, if what you are touring to is very difficult, technical terrain that is going to put a lot of stress on your equipment, be careful.  Note - we are both 200ish lbs, ski very aggressively, and have the din on these binders maxed.  The binders were most likely broken when hammering onto glare ice and trying to edge...
> 
> EDIT:  BD has backed up their product all three times, so its hard to complain.  I just dislike a product that I can break while skiing...  Oh well.



Well, I said "pretty" bombproof. Certainly better than the Dynafits.

I've seen them break...a buddy of mine fried a toe piece skiing bumps. I've broken the toe piece too, interestingly while touring, not skiing. The toe hinge area is particularly vulnerable. 

I've broken alot of things while skiing...skis, bindings, even boots. Equipment fails. I've used my Fritschis for everyday skiing and they hold up well. Like you, when I ski stuff hard the potential for breakage is always there.

Breaking equipment sucks but it's part of the game...so I don't let broken stuff bother me too much.

Unless it's bones.


----------



## salida (Mar 1, 2007)

Jim I agree with everything you said above.  I was just trying to forewarn that this stuff is not as strong as pure alpine gear...


----------



## JimG. (Mar 1, 2007)

salida said:


> I was just trying to forewarn that this stuff is not as strong as pure alpine gear...



This I totally agree with.


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 1, 2007)

salida said:


> I know so many people that swear by the Fritschi...  I've heard countless people say they are bomb proof.  However, I've broken two heal peaces this season and a friend has destroyed one toe peace.  Not that it is not a good product, for simply touring I think its pretty spectacular.  However, if what you are touring to is very difficult, technical terrain that is going to put a lot of stress on your equipment, be careful.  Note - we are both 200ish lbs, ski very aggressively, and have the din on these binders maxed.  The binders were most likely broken when hammering onto glare ice and trying to edge...
> 
> EDIT:  BD has backed up their product all three times, so its hard to complain.  I just dislike a product that I can break while skiing...  Oh well.



is it possible you broke them because you maxed the DIN? you really should never max the DIN on a binding. we are comparable weight, me at 210 lbs and 6'1" tall. i have never had any issues with the freerides and i have put them through some trials, most recently taking some nice sized drops with them. nothing is completely bomber though. they have a freeride plus now, naxo has their beefed up model, and marker has the duke coming out next year for the truly burly he-man binding. i think if you are pushing the envelope while touring, might be best to look into trekkers so you can get a DIN 14 alpine binding and not worry as much about breaking stuff and feel free to charge more.

regarding dynafit, it was exactly my point that they require certain types of boots, so when buying AT boots, if weight may ever remotely become an issue in your mind, it is a good idea to look into compatibility. it would be as simple as looking at the megaride instead of the gride in garmont's line for an example, both essentially the same boot. of course, the burly AT/Alpine combo boots are not dynafit compatible, but you don't buy those boots if you are even slightly considering weight! fwiw, i have non-compatable grides and have not considered dynafits, but it is a good idea to carefully consider these things. every one is different and has different needs.... long term planning saves big time dollars in the long term if it is even a consideration.


----------



## salida (Mar 1, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> is it possible you broke them because you maxed the DIN? you really should never max the DIN on a binding. we are comparable weight, me at 210 lbs and 6'1" tall. i have never had any issues with the freerides and i have put them through some trials, most recently taking some nice sized drops with them. nothing is completely bomber though. they have a freeride plus now, naxo has their beefed up model, and marker has the duke coming out next year for the truly burly he-man binding. i think if you are pushing the envelope while touring, might be best to look into trekkers so you can get a DIN 14 alpine binding and not worry as much about breaking stuff and feel free to charge more.



The din is on 11ish, which is closed to maxed, but not actually maxed (I still release out of these unwantedly on occasion).  The duke, I've been told, will go up to 16?  Granted its a bit heavier, but it may be something I look to invest in...

Porter


----------



## JimG. (Mar 2, 2007)

salida said:


> The din is on 11ish, which is closed to maxed, but not actually maxed (I still release out of these unwantedly on occasion).  The duke, I've been told, will go up to 16?  Granted its a bit heavier, but it may be something I look to invest in...
> 
> Porter



My bootfitter is going to be selling the Markers and has had nothing but rave reviews for them.


----------



## salida (Mar 2, 2007)

JimG. said:


> My bootfitter is going to be selling the Markers and has had nothing but rave reviews for them.



I've seen them, but not gotten to use them yet...  I'm not going to lie, I can't wait to get a pair on some fat boards and see what kind of abuse they take.


----------

