# New to Road biking "world"....help me out.



## zakyr (May 29, 2012)

So I am ditching my mountain bike ('11 Trek 3700 disc -- which is for sale so if interested PM me!) and getting into road biking. 

I don't want to break the bank on a bike so I am looking at the Trek 1.1 and other similar "entry-level" bikes.

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on the bike to get?

 Live in the North Shore of Mass so I have a ton of roads right outside of my house to take advantage of.


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## Puck it (May 29, 2012)

This place has some great prices.

http://www.indoantara.com/


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## MR. evil (May 29, 2012)

zakyr said:


> So I am ditching my mountain bike ('11 Trek 3700 disc -- which is for sale so if interested PM me!) and getting into road biking.
> 
> I don't want to break the bank on a bike so I am looking at the Trek 1.1 and other similar "entry-level" bikes.
> 
> ...



Whats your budget?

And how often or how many miles per week do you see yourself riding?


The 1.1 has some pretty low end componentry on it but will be ok for the occasional rider. But if you are going to ride a good amount I would look at the 1.5 model as a starting point. Also check out bikes by Jamis and Giant. They are lesser known brands outside the cycling world and offer a little more bang for your buck versus the Trek's, Specialized & Cannondale's of the world. The big 3 I just mentioned make great bikes. but you are paying more for the name and markrting $$$ that go along with that name. 

Also consider a used bike. Many bike shops take trade-in's of upper end bikes, and you can ussually get a sweet deal that way. Thats how I purchased my road bike last summer from my LBS. Its a 5 year old Specialized, full carbon frame with high end components, and I picked it up for just under $800.  A new bike in that performace range would have cost me well over $3000


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## zakyr (May 29, 2012)

Yeah I don't have my heart set on the Trek 1.1 I only was drawn initially to trek road bikes as I have always had Trek mountain bikes.

My budget is $800, and that is my max. The less I can spend the better.

I want a solid road bike for rides around 10-20 miles for the most part. I don't care about brand names, but on the same token I want something durable. I'de rather spend $700 for a Trek or Specialized then $500 on a bike that will only last me a year.


I am hoping to get one through a LBS but I want an idea of my options before I go into these stores. I know very little about road bikes so I dont want to trust the sales guys every word.


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## riverc0il (May 29, 2012)

For $800, I'd strongly recommend used that way you can get something with either a minimum component setup of Shimano 105 or SRAM Apex. You aren't going to find a new bike at an LBS for $800 with either of these drive trains. If you are only going to be a casual rider, entry level drive trains are okay. But if you are getting in for keeps, you might as well start with some good gear. 

Brand names are pretty much useless. Brand names cost more because they sponsor pro tour riders and factor in the cost of free bikes and sponsorship money into the price of your bike. Though certainly avoid big box stores. But don't feel like you need to get a "big name" just to ensure quality. I'd look more at component levels. There are some shoddy frames out there but they usually aren't being sold with reasonably good components (i.e.SRAM Apex or Shimano 105 or above). Tiagra isn't too bad but they are seriously upgrading it for the next year so it would bite to get in at that level before it got level'd up to old 105 spec.

The most important thing really is fit. You can use crappy components if you have a great fit but you'll be hating life regardless of your drive train with a bad fit. So ask for a test ride.

Oh... don't forget to factor in extra costs. Pedals, shoes, extra tubes, any other gear needed that you didn't already have with your MTB, road clothing if you want to look the part (certainly not required).


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## zakyr (May 30, 2012)

Can you recommend a bike?


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## riverc0il (May 30, 2012)

Having gotten back into cycling a few years ago, I can sympathize with trying to buy a bike without knowing much about what is what. When I got back into it, I knew my sizing from a previous bike so I went the non-branded cheap internet route. I used bikesdirect.com.

Pretty damn good pricing but you really need to know what size you need. I wouldn't recommend this route unless you are 100% confident on your size. BD doesn't help much here and their geometry charts fail to list many important aspects such as head tube length (wish I knew more about that before I ended up on a "racey" geo bike). But they are the best way to get a good quality bike at a low price. Also, they do some pretty damn stupid cassette ranges that don't suit an all around bike (i.e. 11-32) so you need to really look over the specs and make sure that they make sense.

There are so many bikes out there by so many companies, it is impossible to recommend a specific one. Especially if you go used, as you're then more limited by what is available.

Another option is to ask LBS's if they have any of last year's models cheap. Probably not at this point, but always worth a shot. Every major road bike brand is going to have a solid aluminum offering. And every LBS carries different brands. The more well known the brand, the more expensive the bikes due to paying for pro tour sponsorships.


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## zakyr (May 30, 2012)

I actually haven't made any trips to the LBS's yet...plan on going to one in Danvers today.

Hoping to find a left-over year model....Im 6'3" so I would need around a 61cm bike...usually bike shops have larger sizes left over so Im hoping to get lucky.

I have thoroughly browsed craigslist and contacted many....no luck as of yet though.


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## drjeff (May 30, 2012)

zakyr said:


> I actually haven't made any trips to the LBS's yet...plan on going to one in Danvers today.
> 
> Hoping to find a left-over year model....Im 6'3" so I would need around a 61cm bike...usually bike shops have larger sizes left over so Im hoping to get lucky.
> 
> I have thoroughly browsed craigslist and contacted many....no luck as of yet though.



I'm in the 6'3" category too, and when I went to my LBS almost a year to the day ago to get my road bike, the owner of the shop, who has fit me for my mtb and my wife for a couple of road bikes prior, initially wanted to get me on a Specialized, but Specialized was sold out of ALL their 2011 61 cm frame bikes at ANY price point already for the year   I ended up on the Jamis that i'm on and couldn't be happier


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## john1200c (May 30, 2012)

zakyr said:


> I actually haven't made any trips to the LBS's yet...plan on going to one in Danvers today.
> 
> Hoping to find a left-over year model....Im 6'3" so I would need around a 61cm bike...usually bike shops have larger sizes left over so Im hoping to get lucky.
> 
> I have thoroughly browsed craigslist and contacted many....no luck as of yet though.



I bought an entry level bike at the shop in Topsfield a few years ago.  It was a Giant OCR 3.  I dont think they make it anymore but they probably have a current version.  I am happy with it but will likely upgrade this season.  There is also a new shop in Middleton called Woodys which has a lot of bikes in stock, not sure if they are entry level or not.  The guy in there has been very helpful to me regarding set up etc.


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## zakyr (May 30, 2012)

drjeff said:


> I'm in the 6'3" category too, and when I went to my LBS almost a year to the day ago to get my road bike, the owner of the shop, who has fit me for my mtb and my wife for a couple of road bikes prior, initially wanted to get me on a Specialized, but Specialized was sold out of ALL their 2011 61 cm frame bikes at ANY price point already for the year   I ended up on the Jamis that i'm on and couldn't be happier



What Jamis did you get?


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## zakyr (May 30, 2012)

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/ventnoir_x.htm

What do you think?


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## zakyr (May 30, 2012)

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/ventnoir_xii.htm

also the 2012 version of above


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## drjeff (May 30, 2012)

zakyr said:


> What Jamis did you get?



I went with their Xenith Endura 2 carbon frame bike.  Having seen the damage that I had inflicted to my MTB over the previous couple of years, the owner of my LBS basically told me that there were certain bikes that he would refuse to sell me, since I'd more than likely end up breaking some things on them.  I've been more than happy with the Sram Apex components for my drive train on this bike, and the only "issue" I had was that the post market pedals that I ordered myself had a recall on them, so aside from a single blown tuve courtsey of rolling over a very pointed rock, my Jamis has been bulletproof


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## riverc0il (May 30, 2012)

zakyr said:


> I actually haven't made any trips to the LBS's yet...plan on going to one in Danvers today.
> 
> Hoping to find a left-over year model....Im 6'3" so I would need around a 61cm bike...usually bike shops have larger sizes left over so Im hoping to get lucky.
> 
> I have thoroughly browsed craigslist and contacted many....no luck as of yet though.


You can't estimate bikes based on your height. And you don't want to measure Seat Tube as historically is done. Top tube and head tube are far more important. You might fit a 56cm in some manufacturers based on how geo works or 61 might be too small in others. You don't want to go in and say you need a 61cm Seat Tube size because seat tube is completely irrelevant for modern bikes.


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## riverc0il (May 30, 2012)

zakyr said:


> http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/ventnoir_xii.htm
> 
> also the 2012 version of above


Looks like a relaxed geo bike which is probably what you are looking for. Nice that they have a full geo sheet now with all the measurements. I ended up with their Corvus which is much more racier geo. It is a solid package for the price. Tiagra isn't quite 105 but you still have the STI shifters and 10 speed.12-30 cassette is really way overkill matched with a triple. You don't have a useful 16t, a 12-28 wound be way more than adequate. But you can always buy a different cassette when you dial in your preferences. Suffice it to say that you won't find any hill you can't get up with a 30/30. You get free clipless pedals too, which is nice. Though I got what they offer before and I upgraded within a year, they are complete junk (make sure you get the right shoes that match the patter). If you go with this, definitely go with this year's with the new 10 speed Tiagra. 

Their Gravity Comp30 looks a little better spec'd with 105 in the drivetrain and shifters and a more useful cassette but platforms instead of clipless and they don't list the Geo which IMO is dumb. It looks super relaxed though. This is a case where you're notice that a 58.5cm would probably fit you even though that is 2.5cm less than you might be used to because of the relexed geo.

Personally, if you're unsure of geo, I'd recommend buying local where you can try before you buy. For the record, I bought one size too big when I purchased from them because I didn't understand the measurement/geo differences between seat tube and top tube. I took the measurement from my last bike's seat tube and used that. But it turned out the top tube for the bike I bought was about 2cm longer than my old bike with the same seat tube. Keep in mind you can always increase saddle height but moving/pushing the bars in/out requires equipment changes (stem, seatpost) that could radically alter fit. YMMV.


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## MR. evil (May 30, 2012)

Another thing to keep in mind is that 2 people with the same height, but different body proportions will each be on a different size bike. Based on my height alone I should be on a 56cm Specialized road bike based on the size chart (which is just a starting benchmark). But because of the proportions of my legs to torso, specifacly femur length, my bike shop put me on a bike one size smaller (54cm). On the bigger bike it was impossible for the shop to adjust the seat heigh and seat setback to get my knees centered over the pedal spindles at a certain point in the pedal stroke. This could have lead to a potential repetitive stress knee injury if I was on the larger bike. 

One thing to keep in mind is that mountain bike sizing / fit it's not nearly as critical as on a road bike. The extra $$$ spent the bike shop will be well worth it.


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## MR. evil (May 30, 2012)

Another thing to keep in mind is that 2 people with the same height, but different body proportions will each be on a different size bike. Based on my height alone I should be on a 56cm Specialized road bike based on the size chart (which is just a starting benchmark). But because of the proportions of my legs to torso, specifacly femur length, my bike shop put me on a bike one size smaller (54cm). On the bigger bike it was impossible for the shop to adjust the seat heigh and seat setback to get my knees centered over the pedal spindles at a certain point in the pedal stroke. This could have lead to a potential repetitive stress knee injury if I was on the larger bike. 

One thing to keep in mind is that mountain bike sizing / fit it's not nearly as critical as on a road bike. The extra $$$ spent the bike shop will be well worth it.


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## zakyr (May 31, 2012)

Alright, so Im going to stop by a bike shop today to test out some bikes. 

This LBS carries mostly Trek's and Garys.....see what happens.


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## o3jeff (May 31, 2012)

zakyr said:


> Alright, so Im going to stop by a bike shop today to test out some bikes.
> 
> This LBS carries mostly Trek's and Garys.....see what happens.



I'm pretty sure Trek owns Gary F so they are probably very similar bikes.


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## drjeff (May 31, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> I'm pretty sure Trek owns Gary F so they are probably very similar bikes.



Pretty sure you're correct.  Atleast I know when I see updates from Lance Armstrong on his twitter feed as he's getting ready to do another Xterra triathlon, he's usually posting a pic of a REALLY sweet Gary Fisher-ized Trek carbon MTB with some sweet Sram components and some rings in the cassettes that most mere mortals wouldn't even think about ever using!  :lol:


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## zakyr (May 31, 2012)

Looking at a couple bikes. One is a unused 2010 Giant Defy 3 for $700. 

Price check?


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## riverc0il (May 31, 2012)

How serious do you think you'll be taking road biking? Immediately? A year from now? A few years? If you are approaching it very casually, not putting on long miles, and don't think you're going to become personally invested, that Giant Defy 3 will get the job done. But if you plan to go for it, I'd look for something better in the used market at a similar price. So if the bike fits and you're just going to ride casually, go for it, that price is fine. Though for being two years old, I might see if you can haggle in some free stuff.


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## MR. evil (Jun 1, 2012)

For a 2 year old leftover and that parts spec, $700 doesn't seem like much of a deal. My bike shop has current model year bikes with better part specs for not much more than that.


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## zakyr (Jun 1, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> For a 2 year old leftover and that parts spec, $700 doesn't seem like much of a deal. My bike shop has current model year bikes with better part specs for not much more than that.



Such as?


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## o3jeff (Jun 1, 2012)

According to BikePedia msrp was $750 in 2010. I'd see how low they would go to move it.
http://www.bikepedia.com/Quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2010&Brand=Giant&Model=Defy%203&Type=bike


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## zakyr (Jun 1, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> According to BikePedia msrp was $750 in 2010. I'd see how low they would go to move it.
> http://www.bikepedia.com/Quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2010&Brand=Giant&Model=Defy%203&Type=bike



Thanks for posting that.

Am I wrong, or should that piss me off that the guy is trying to sell it for $700?

I feel like not giving them my business for trying to sell it for that....


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## mlctvt (Jun 1, 2012)

zakyr said:


> Thanks for posting that.
> 
> Am I wrong, or should that piss me off that the guy is trying to sell it for $700?
> 
> I feel like not giving them my business for trying to sell it for that....




I woudn't be upset, he's probably trying to cover his cost plus still make a small profit. The markup on bikes is notoriously bad. I'm not sure of the margins on this model but the shop could have paid as much as $650.00 for that bike back in 2010. You could offer him less, no harm in that.


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## zakyr (Jun 1, 2012)

Another price check and advice on quality of bike...

2012 Specialized Secteur for $769 at Buchikas.


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## zakyr (Jun 1, 2012)

Curiosity question-

Would a 62cm Specialized fit someone who is 6'2 1/2"?


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## MR. evil (Jun 1, 2012)

zakyr said:


> Curiosity question-
> 
> Would a 62cm Specialized fit someone who is 6'2 1/2"?



Not sure, might be a bit large, might be spot on. Only one way to find out.

FWIW I am 6'-0" and ride a 56cm Spesh.


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## riverc0il (Jun 1, 2012)

zakyr said:


> Thanks for posting that.
> 
> Am I wrong, or should that piss me off that the guy is trying to sell it for $700?
> 
> I feel like not giving them my business for trying to sell it for that....


Don't be pissed off, just ask for a lower price or some extra free stuff you might need. $700 for a AL bike loaded with Sora is a decent price for 2012 bikes so perhaps they are looking at it from that perspective. If they've had it for two years, either they would gladly drop $50 to move it or they still have it because they won't deal and they don't care. So point out the price hasn't been lowered from MSRP since 2010 and see what you get.


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## riverc0il (Jun 1, 2012)

zakyr said:


> Curiosity question-
> 
> Would a 62cm Specialized fit someone who is 6'2 1/2"?


Depends. What is the head tube, seat tube, top tube, and ST/TT angles?

In other words, ride it and find out.

I'll repeat from above: height does not correspond to seat tube measurement! Loose correlation only. You might need a 56cm bike or 62cm might be way too small. It all depends on the geometry.

Think of it this way: you are 6'2 but how long are your legs and how long is your torso? How long are your arms? Not everyone that is 6'2" has the same leg, torso, and arm lengths. They can be radically different, even.

So your body connects with the bike in three places: saddle, pedals, and handlebars. Height may be somewhat loosely correlated with average size but everyone is different. How tall you are has nothing to do with sizing a bike. It used to mean something when all bikes had flat top tubes and all frames came in 2cm increments and you had to be concerned with crotch clearance. That is old news, now.

All that doesn't even take into account individual preference for fit and flexibility. If you don't know your preferred geometry, you really need to pedal a few bikes to find out.


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

One last price check and thoughts. 

2009 or 2010, forget year.... Fuji Newest 1.0. 
LBS is asking $900. 


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## MR. evil (Jun 2, 2012)

zakyr said:


> One last price check and thoughts.
> 
> 2009 or 2010, forget year.... Fuji Newest 1.0.
> LBS is asking $900.
> ...



That's not a bad spec, but for a leftover 2010 I would be expecting all 105 components for that price. $200 off MSRP isn't a lot for a bike that's 2.5 models years old. 2013 model years stuff comes out at the end of this summer.


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## MR. evil (Jun 2, 2012)

zakyr said:


> One last price check and thoughts.
> 
> 2009 or 2010, forget year.... Fuji Newest 1.0.
> LBS is asking $900.
> ...



Where do you live?

Was just checking the Suburban Sports website and they have some nice deals on current model year bikes

http://suburbanskiandbike.com/Bicycles-Road-Bikes/

AZ member Skidmarks (Peter) works there and usually gives AZers a decent deal. If the middle of CT (15 minutes south) of Hartford isn't too far, get in touch with Skidmarks


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## o3jeff (Jun 2, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> Was just checking the Suburban Sports website and they have some nice deals on current model year bikes
> 
> ...



Actually Peter is moving to VT, just ask for Scott or Pat(internet sales)


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## o3jeff (Jun 2, 2012)

And Suburban has a lot more bikes than listed on their web site. I was there Thursday night and they still have some leftovers


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

Yeah CT is too far of a drive for me. Too bad tho they looks like a good shop 


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

Is there wiggle room for negotiations?
The bike had a sticker of 1200.... He said he would do 900... 


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

Found another potential bike. 

2011 specialized secteur sport triple, new, for less than $600. 
Thoughts?


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## riverc0il (Jun 2, 2012)

Have you been on bikes and tried and felt the difference between Sora, Tiagra, 105, and Apex? I think you need to figure out what you want by getting on some bikes and seeing what feels best to you. You set your upper limit and that is good. Now stop shopping with your wallet, stick with your limit, and shop for what feels best.

Are you sure that is new for less than $600? Good deal if so. I wonder what is wrong with it besides being only one year old...


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Have you been on bikes and tried and felt the difference between Sora, Tiagra, 105, and Apex? I think you need to figure out what you want by getting on some bikes and seeing what feels best to you. You set your upper limit and that is good. Now stop shopping with your wallet, stick with your limit, and shop for what feels best.
> 
> Are you sure that is new for less than $600? Good deal if so. I wonder what is wrong with it besides being only one year old...



Goin to look at it monday. On the phone they said they just has one bike left for that model for 2011, just so happens to be my size. 
Wasn't even assembled.....

And yes I tried different components. And being new to this, I didn't notice and drastic differences. 


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## riverc0il (Jun 2, 2012)

If you didn't notice the difference between Sora and Tiagra, you might as well get the Sora which is on that triple. I can't believe they had it in the box for over a year!


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> If you didn't notice the difference between Sora and Tiagra, you might as well get the Sora which is on that triple. I can't believe they had it in the box for over a year!



Who knows if it was really in the box... I won't hold that agains them. 

But regardless they said it was unused. Plus the shop is in mass but I paid online, so no sales tax!

Going to the shop Monday to pick it up. 


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## MR. evil (Jun 2, 2012)

So which bike did you end up with? Are the including a bike fit with the purchase?


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> So which bike did you end up with? Are the including a bike fit with the purchase?



2011 specialized secteur sport triple. 

Their shop site says it comes with every bike purchase so I assume they will do this when I go pick it up....


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## MR. evil (Jun 2, 2012)

Just checked out the Sectuer triple specs online and it's a shimano 2300 groupset which is even lower than Sora. That Fuji at $900 with A mix of Tiagra and 105 is a MUCH better buy. The Tiagra shifters alone are a HUGE improvement over 2300 or Sora.  I can't imagine that you have tried 2300, Sora and Tiagra and didn't notice a difference in the shifters, they don't even operate the same way.


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## zakyr (Jun 2, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Just checked out the Sectuer triple specs online and it's a shimano 2300 groupset which is even lower than Sora. That Fuji at $900 with A mix of Tiagra and 105 is a MUCH better buy. The Tiagra shifters alone are a HUGE improvement over 2300 or Sora.  I can't imagine that you have tried 2300, Sora and Tiagra and didn't notice a difference in the shifters, they don't even operate the same way.



It's sora and tiagra components.... You are looking at something wrong. 
http://www.specialized.com/ie/gb/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?arc=2011&spid=53221


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## riverc0il (Jun 2, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Just checked out the Sectuer triple specs online and it's a shimano 2300 groupset which is even lower than Sora. That Fuji at $900 with A mix of Tiagra and 105 is a MUCH better buy. The Tiagra shifters alone are a HUGE improvement over 2300 or Sora.  I can't imagine that you have tried 2300, Sora and Tiagra and didn't notice a difference in the shifters, they don't even operate the same way.


That would make much more sense for the price. It looks like the "Sport" version has Sora and the regular version has 2300. I wonder if the shop gave the Sport spec accidentally. Like I wrote above, the pricing seems too good to be true even for one year old.

I would verify the sport version with Sora. Though like Mr. Evil said, it is amazing if you road Tiagra or 105 and couldn't notice the difference between that level of component and Sora. One of the shifters is controlled by the thumb on Sora whereas both shifters are on the hoods for Tiagra and above. It is a noticeable difference. Sora is damn clunky compared to STI shifting as well.


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## zakyr (Jun 3, 2012)

Lol of course I noticed the thumb shifters and I actually prefer them. 

I was referring to the general feel of it. 

And yes it is the sport version, he explicitly said it had Sora and tiagra components. 

Jeez can't a guy Just find a good deal!


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## riverc0il (Jun 3, 2012)

That is a very good deal with the Sora at less than $600. Especially if you liked Sora better which boggles my mind. Go get it!


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## zakyr (Jun 4, 2012)

Sick of me yet????

So another UPDATE-

The Specialized deal fell through. Long story short, I am currently talking with the shop owner as there was a BIG screw up on their part. 
The search continues...


Next bike lined up- talking with another LBS. They have a leftover '11 Trek 1.2 for $750. Seems to be similar to the Specialized I was looking at....have Sora & Tiarga components.
Just wondering if at the $750 range there are any bikes someone would say to get rather than the 1.2.


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## riverc0il (Jun 4, 2012)

No surprise that deal fell through. They clearly were not giving you the correct price for the bike being offered as it is surely worth more.

$750 seems more in line with what I would expect for a top name brand Sora bike.

At this level, all the bikes you are looking at are essentially the same quality. Take it for a test ride and if it is comfortable, buy it. You're not going to find many deals on new entry level Sora road bikes. They are all going to be around $700-800 no matter where you go or what brand you buy.


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## zakyr (Jun 4, 2012)

Well I finally got a bike....
New leftover 2010 Trek 1.2. Ended up getting a 62cm frame.... Being just shy of 6'3" I was on the edge between a 61 and 62 frame. 

Now I just need the rain to stop so I can get some miles in


Anyone use the strava app?



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## o3jeff (Jun 18, 2012)

How you liking the bike? Getting some miles in?


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## zakyr (Jun 18, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> How you liking the bike? Getting some miles in?



Actually ended up switching the 2010 for a 2011 Trek 1.2 in a 60cm. Did that 2 weeks ago and absolutely loving the bike. The fit is perfect and feel very comfortable on the bike.

Have been averaging 15 mile rides @ just shy of 16mph average speed.

I have definitely been bit by the road biking bug..... I get back from a ride and a couple hours later got the urge to do another.


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