# Trail Closure at Trout Brook due to Selfish MTBers



## Gremf (May 4, 2010)

Thought I would pass this along:



> This winter TBV has seen a large surge in bikers who insisted upon using the TBV trails even though the sign was & is prominent in the parking lot stating biking is prohibited from Jan 1- April 30. Identical signs were put at every entrance into TBV & one was even removed after installation! All of the Trail Stewards voiced this violation as a major concern at our bi-annual meeting a few weeks ago. In addition, the Trail Steward responsible for the magenta trail asked me to take a look, along with an ecologist, to determine the state of the trail. We were not pleased with the conditions of the bike tire rutted trail in many spots, which is what precipitated closing the trail to bikers - permanently. On the first day of biking - May 1 - we had trail stewards on duty all day in the Bradley Lot to hand out the biking do's & don'ts, along with dog do's & don'ts, & in this way we hoped to make it clear why the magenta trail was closed. In addition, there is a posted laminated copy as well, with all of the reasons. clearly stated. We also asked - on our information sheet & the posted sheet - for bikers to NOT ride the day after a rain & also to not ride if it is raining when they arrive. This is just common sense, but not employed. Thus, the trails suffer even more greatly.
> For the bikers who are accompanied by dogs, leashes must be employed where signage dictates & also carried everywhere in TBV as the rule of the trail states all dogs MUST be leashed when approaching horses on the trails. FYI - blue & green are the permitted horse trails.
> Most of us are tired of forever having to chase bikers out of there  - I personally had more than my share - with the resulting arguments, which is aggravating, to say the least. And, seeing tire tracks on the no biking trails infuriates us even more as we are responsible for conserving the property. The bottom line is that unless there is more cooperation from the biking community, TBV will be closed to all bikers, period.
> To give you a small example of what happens in there, I am copying beneath the report from one of our most experienced trail stewards & you can see how the few - or maybe more, are ruining it for you all.
> ...


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## dmc (May 5, 2010)

It happens...  We got chased out of the Watching Reservation in Jersey when MTBing was in it infancy..
People started racing then and practicing - not caring about hikers and horses, etc..

It was really painful...  Such a great place to ride..


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## RootDKJ (May 5, 2010)

dmc said:


> It happens...  We got chased out of the Watching Reservation in Jersey when MTBing was in it infancy..
> People started racing then and practicing - not caring about hikers and horses, etc..
> 
> It was really painful...  Such a great place to ride..


Add South Mountain Reservation to that last as well.  I took a hike in Watchung Reservation last Friday after work.  I saw lots of fresh tire tracks.


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## dmc (May 5, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> Add South Mountain Reservation to that last as well.



That one hurt too...


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## RootDKJ (May 5, 2010)

dmc said:


> That one hurt too...


I hear people talking about poaching SM all the time.  Apparently, night riding is pretty popular in there.  Since portable lighting getting smaller and more powerful in the past few years, it's been the in thing to do.  I haven't been hiking in there for a long time.  Maybe Friday after work I'll go over there.

JORBA has teamed up with the South Mountain Conservancy for trail maintenance.  They submitted a proposal to Essex County to allow an 18 month "trial"period to allow bikers back in there.  I don't think anything every happened with that.
http://www2.jorba.org/index.php?title=South_Mountain_Conservancy


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## powpig2002 (May 5, 2010)

closed due to selfish hikers


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## wa-loaf (May 5, 2010)

Do they allow horses at these places? They do a hell of a lot more damage than bikers ..


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## dmc (May 5, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Do they allow horses at these places? They do a hell of a lot more damage than bikers ..



Yes they do...  But - I think horse people are represented better then MTB people...  And more in line with the hiking people...

I repsct trails...  I don't ride through mud if I can avoid it..  I get off my bike and let horses pass...  I always say hello to hikers... and give them a wide berth..


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## Talisman (May 6, 2010)

dmc said:


> Yes they do...  But - I think horse people are represented better then MTB people...  And more in line with the hiking people...
> 
> I repsct trails...  I don't ride through mud if I can avoid it..  I get off my bike and let horses pass...  I always say hello to hikers... and give them a wide berth..



Often the arguement against MTB isn't rational, but emotional.  This is where courtesy can really help.  When blasting by hikers with a shrill on 'on yer left' or making a horse nervous, others think the bikers "shouldn't be here".  Getting off and letting horses pass is so simple.  I always add "your horse is beautiful" even if it is crow bait a step from the glue factory.  

A complement on a hiker's dog got him talking and we eventually worked on a trail repair project together.


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## dmc (May 6, 2010)

Talisman said:


> Often the arguement against MTB isn't rational, but emotional.  This is where courtesy can really help.  When blasting by hikers with a shrill on 'on yer left' or making a horse nervous, others think the bikers "shouldn't be here".  Getting off and letting horses pass is so simple.  I always add "your horse is beautiful" even if it is crow bait a step from the glue factory.
> 
> A complement on a hiker's dog got him talking and we eventually worked on a trail repair project together.



Yup...  Kiss up... But - your probably sating the truth...  

I grew up with horses...  Lots of them get nervous with shinny, creeky, moving things around..  Nervous horse many time equals a nervous rider...


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## dmc (May 6, 2010)




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## Gremf (May 9, 2010)

dmc said:


> Yes they do...  But - I think horse people are represented better then MTB people...  And more in line with the hiking people...
> 
> I repsct trails...  I don't ride through mud if I can avoid it..  I get off my bike and let horses pass...  I always say hello to hikers... and give them a wide berth..



I think one thing that is somewhat overlooked is that with Horses there are not that many on the trails, so when our two legged trail users encounter them, it's more awe and a topic for trailside conversation.  What they overlook are the huge amounts of horse crap lining the trails.  The horse people play it down as chewed up grass - yeah right - chewed up grass, vitamins, oats, apples, carrots; time get off your high horse and kick it off the trail!

I constantly am reminding equestriennes to either curb their horse or dismount and kick their crap off the trail.

As for the trail closure at TB, we [NEMBA] are working with the Land Manager to get a program going to improve the trails.  It's unfortunate that it had to come to this.


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## drjeff (May 10, 2010)

As bad as this is,  it's not a heck of alot much different than the generally selfish attitude that a person while on their skis/board has when they poach a closed trail because they either think that the rules don't apply to them or that they have "superior skills" to what in their mind must be a patrol/authority figure of lesser ability than themselves.

Until folks across the board, no matter what sport we're talking about realize and accept that the rules are there for everybody, not just certain people, and that the rules are in place for a reason, then we'll probably unfortunately start hearing of more and more stories like this


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## riverc0il (May 10, 2010)

drjeff said:


> As bad as this is,  it's not a heck of alot much different than the generally selfish attitude that a person while on their skis/board has when they poach a closed trail because they either think that the rules don't apply to them or that they have "superior skills" to what in their mind must be a patrol/authority figure of lesser ability than themselves.
> 
> Until folks across the board, no matter what sport we're talking about realize and accept that the rules are there for everybody, not just certain people, and that the rules are in place for a reason, then we'll probably unfortunately start hearing of more and more stories like this


I think your equation of road biking safety compared to rope ducking is not a good comparison. Road bike safety seems to be an issue between a road bike yielding to foot traffic or skittish horses, where in the safety issue effects others rather than a personal risk that does not have an effect on others (unless you get hurt, but again, I think we are talking about apples and oranges here).

Rules are in place for a reason. But if no one ever broke rules... the world would be a different place. Safety rules that equate to golden rules are important, IMO. But a blanket statement that everyone should always follow rules is a bit excessive. I hope you have never drank underage, smoked pot, broken the speed limit, etc. to make a blanket statement that folks should never brake rules.


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