# Paris Attacks



## thetrailboss (Nov 13, 2015)

It's late, but I'm hearing there's been a major terrorist attack in Paris. Thoughts and prayers for folks there. 


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## thetrailboss (Nov 13, 2015)

http://www.cnn.com

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34814203


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## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2015)

Pretty shocking change in the news on that front.  Earlier today we're hearing about the extermination of Jihadi John; tonight possibly hundreds of innocent people dead.

Will this world ever find peace?


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## Puck it (Nov 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Pretty shocking change in the news on that front.  Earlier today we're hearing about the extermination of Jihadi John; tonight possibly hundreds of innocent people dead.
> 
> Will this world ever find peace?


No it is human nature.  Someone is always pissed off at someone.


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## Not Sure (Nov 13, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> http://www.cnn.com
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34814203
> 
> ...



Another attack on a disarmed and defenseless public !


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 13, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Another attack on a disarmed and defenseless public !



Please don't do that. It's just as annoying as the liberals that yell "ban all guns" before the bodies have even been identified. Show respect


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## skiNEwhere (Nov 13, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Please don't do that. It's just as annoying as the liberals that yell "ban all guns" before the bodies have even been identified. Show respect



+1


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## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2015)

Puck it said:


> No it is human nature.  Someone is always pissed off at someone.



See, I have a bit more faith in humanity.  After all, you piss me off all the time, but I've never desired much more than a swift kick to your nuts!!!!


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## Puck it (Nov 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> See, I have a bit more faith in humanity.  After all, you piss me off all the time, but I've never desired much more than a swift kick to your nuts!!!!


Dude, I was not intending a kick to the nuts.  But it is true, humans have not evolved enough to be like you wish.  As wistnessed by these acts.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2015)

Violence like this doesn't exist everywhere though.  Never see something happen like this in Iceland as an example, Buddhists seem to have found peace for the most part.  I know I'm too much of idealist, but it's worth pushing towards


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## Not Sure (Nov 13, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Please don't do that. It's just as annoying as the liberals that yell "ban all guns" before the bodies have even been identified. Show respect



Yes , my bad . This subject has me uneasy , I had a Muslim customer for many years whom I thought was a  friend . 
I turned down a service call one day because I was on a ski vacation . When I got back he asked me where I went , I showed him a picture and the first thing out of his mouth was  "Are there a lot of tourists there  "
WTF ? I said no but made me wonder?


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## yeggous (Nov 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Violence like this doesn't exist everywhere though.  Never see something happen like this in Iceland as an example, Buddhists seem to have found peace for the most part.  I know I'm too much of idealist, but it's worth pushing towards



Really? The population of Iceland is about the same of Lexington, Kentucky. It is much less populous that Wyoming.

This comes a week or so after the Russian airliner bombing. It seems likely we have reached a whole new phase. It seems hard to believe NATO and Russia may be fighting over the privilege of starting a ground war in the Middle East.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Yes , my bad . This subject has me uneasy , I had a Muslim customer for many years whom I thought was a  friend .
> I turned down a service call one day because I was on a ski vacation . When I got back he asked me where I went , I showed him a picture and the first thing out of his mouth was  "Are there a lot of tourists there  "
> WTF ? I said no but made me wonder?



I'm not sure I understand this.  Why did you say "no " about a lot of tourists at a ski area? Obviously, ski areas are tourist destinations. What made you wonder?

Not being critical, just confused about what exactly the rift was/is between you and your customer.


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## Not Sure (Nov 13, 2015)

Happened not long after 9/11 , Was he doing research ? So I lied . Maybe just a language thing or paranoia on my part .


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## Tin (Nov 13, 2015)

Sad that this will only bring up the gun discussion and Islamophobia.


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## mriceyman (Nov 13, 2015)

Humans have been at war for thousands of years. It will never change unfortunately 


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## Puck it (Nov 13, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> Humans have been at war for thousands of years. It will never change unfortunately
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Over religion for the majority.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Happened not long after 9/11 , Was he doing research ? So I lied . Maybe just a language thing or paranoia on my part .



That makes sense.  I'd have similar reservations.

Thanks for the explanation


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## Not Sure (Nov 13, 2015)

Tin said:


> Sad that this will only bring up the gun discussion and Islamophobia.



My business partner had a saying "Put too many rats in a cage and they'll kill each other.
My greatest fear is  Road rage , accidentally cutting off some hot head  with a gun .

As far a Islamaphobia goes The Koran has some passages about killing Jews , so a fear  I think is warranted.
I have other Muslim customers and have no problem with them , it's the young angry fundamentalists that worry me.

Sad indeed but it's Reality


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## skiNEwhere (Nov 13, 2015)

This reminds me of the Mumbai attacks a while back. Reports of 158 dead now.

With multiple attack of this scale, makes me wonder if these types of groups are harder to infiltrate.

Kind of crazy, I had a co worker who was in Paris just last week and went to a soccer game as well.


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## Puck it (Nov 13, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> My business partner had a saying "Put too many rats in a cage and they'll kill each other.
> My greatest fear is  Road rage , accidentally cutting off some hot head  with a gun .
> 
> As far a Islamaphobia goes The Koran has some passages about killing Jews , so a fear  I think is warranted.
> ...


I think you mean infidels.


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## bigbog (Nov 13, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Another attack on a disarmed and defenseless public !



Yeah...multiple attacks, even if done on foot, can spread a police department enough to allow escape...if planned well enough.
Most governments, let alone police departments..and security organizations just aren't prepared. 
EDIT:....I'll save the rambling...steamboat1 and I agree...(How do I know this....:lol...


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## steamboat1 (Nov 13, 2015)

The French surrendered.


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## bigbog (Nov 13, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> The French surrendered.



I hear ya' SB1.....


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## Not Sure (Nov 14, 2015)

Puck it said:


> I think you mean infidels.



Yes ,Also on the list but Jews are at the top.
http://www.truthandgrace.com/muslimkillcommands.htm


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## Puck it (Nov 14, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Yes ,Also on the list but Jews are at the top.
> http://www.truthandgrace.com/muslimkillcommands.htm


Infidels are anyone that does not believe in Mohammed as the prophet of God. Thus Jews and every non Muslim in the world.


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 14, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> The French surrendered.



Hey who brought the funny guy??


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## freeski (Nov 14, 2015)

Heavy bombers, carpet bomb Raqqah.  Or... we could write them a letter and tell them they are being mean and we don't like it. Ask them to stop? Maybe enclose a gift certificate so they know we're serious.


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## Warp Daddy (Nov 14, 2015)

Unfortunately my experience in dealing with middle eastern clients with similar rlifious persuasions leads me to believe that they employ NON- Aristotelian logic which utterly confuses almost all Western educated people . 

Aristotle's logic usually expresses things in either or type of propositions whereas this is often NOT the case with religious zealotry in that part of the world . This renders cooperative negotiations both cumbersome and onerous and entirely futile inmy limited experience .

I learned this the  hard way when contracting for managerial education for several wealthy and well educated grad students from that rgion that were already employed by firms in their homeland and were here for a special 6 week program .

there as no negotiating that was seen as a weakness , once i sensed this i shifted to a command and control type of authority that had specific consequences and expectations for behavior and  performance or obstinancy .....THAT worked and the malcontents were shipped out of the country the next day and the rest of the group became exemplary . Not saying this applies in all cases but i have seen this more than once.  My behavior with the group shifted from benevalent educator to MANAGER of expectations and that got their attention when we shipped the problem ourt of the country and notified their embassy and their employer of their nn compliance .

Sometimes you gotta flush the damn toilet !!!


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## Puck it (Nov 14, 2015)

Warp Daddy said:


> Unfortunately my experience in dealing with middle eastern clients with similar rlifious persuasions leads me to believe that they employ NON- Aristotelian logic which utterly confuses almost all Western educated people .
> 
> Aristotle's logic usually expresses things in either or type of propositions whereas this is often NOT the case with religious zealotry in that part of the world . This renders cooperative negotiations both cumbersome and onerous and entirely futile inmy limited experience .
> 
> ...


Then can we bomb the shot out of them to get rid of them.


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## Warp Daddy (Nov 14, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Then can we bomb the shot out of them to get rid of them.




The feeling i have is that action speaks louder than words,especially when dealing with intransigent zealots who employ the kind of logic which seemes to be a closed loop and non negotiable . It is a sorry state of affairs try time dated negotiation and diplomacy but with specific action oriented   consequences that have impact if reasonable negotiation is thwarted   . The situation can no longer be trifled with IMHO


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## Tin (Nov 14, 2015)

Warp Daddy said:


> Unfortunately my experience in dealing with middle eastern clients with similar rlifious persuasions leads me to believe that they employ NON- Aristotelian logic which utterly confuses almost all Western educated people .
> 
> Aristotle's logic usually expresses things in either or type of propositions whereas this is often NOT the case with religious zealotry in that part of the world . This renders cooperative negotiations both cumbersome and onerous and entirely futile inmy limited experience .




Let's clump a billion people into your business dealings and "flush the toilet" with all of them right? 

Why don't we do the same thing with any socially awkward white Christian kid with a bowl hair cut?


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## wa-loaf (Nov 14, 2015)

I miss the days when all we had to worry about was nuclear annihilation.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 14, 2015)

Seriously. The ducking under the desk drills at school were much better times.


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## Not Sure (Nov 14, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> I miss the days when all we had to worry about was nuclear annihilation.



http://freebeacon.com

Now you won't see it coming LOL


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## wa-loaf (Nov 14, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> http://freebeacon.com
> 
> Now you won't see it coming LOL



I thought that was free bacon. I was severely disappointed when I clicked on the page.


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## bigbog (Nov 14, 2015)

If we could draw up legislation to force-ship everyone in Washington over to Iraq and keep em' there for a few years+...
It would be entertaining as well as interesting to see what happens to our Gods from the Shining Hill....


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 14, 2015)

Warp Daddy said:


> Unfortunately my experience in dealing with middle eastern clients with similar rlifious persuasions leads me to believe that they employ NON- Aristotelian logic which utterly confuses almost all Western educated people .
> 
> Aristotle's logic usually expresses things in either or type of propositions whereas this is often NOT the case with religious zealotry in that part of the world . This renders cooperative negotiations both cumbersome and onerous and entirely futile inmy limited experience .
> 
> ...



I did a deal with Saudi Telephone..   
Was't that bad.. they liked me enough.

Met them at a conference in Vegas of all places.  They didn't drink like the Saudis I met in Dubai.

After we talked in Vegas I had a web meeting/call with them - this like 7 years ago or so..

I encrypted the Arabic characters for Insha'Allah(god willing)..
They were amazed..  And asked if it was possible to un-encrypt - i said "Insha'Allah"... hahaha..
They laughed..  Was cool..

Thats my only business dealings with Arabs..


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 14, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> I miss the days when all we had to worry about was nuclear annihilation.



word


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## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2015)

Be alert out there, folks.


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## freeski (Nov 14, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I did a deal with Saudi Telephone..
> Was't that bad.. they liked me enough.
> 
> Met them at a conference in Vegas of all places.  They didn't drink like the Saudis I met in Dubai.
> ...


What does that have to do with over 100 people killed and 300 injured in the attack on Paris?


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 14, 2015)

Let's focus on what's more important:

How did they acquire freaking grenades?

Why are Syrians let alone ones on a terrorist watch list allowed into the country?

How can the French police department learn from an attack like this? There was some serious failure on their part IMO. I thought that the global police community learned from what happened at West Gate in Nairobi. They should have implemented an active shooter rather than a hostage protocol. They may have saved a lot more lives in the concert hall.

I'm not so concerned about retribution. There will be plenty of time for retribution. I also think the coalition against ISIL will be massive and the response will be swift.


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## Warp Daddy (Nov 14, 2015)

freeski said:


> What does that have to do with over 100 people killed and 300 injured in the attack on Paris?


My dealings were with Algerians , Libyans , Syrians and Pakistanis over a 15 yr period at various intervals  and Tin i said try negotiation BUT do not let it turn into a downward open ended  spiral . sEt specific expectations with time dated elements that have consequences if mnot upheld ....THAT is what works ...not continual weakness and vacuuous , meaningless, never ending talk without consequence . Moreover with todays smart technology genocide can be avoided but leadership and followship targets can be pin pointed


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 14, 2015)

Warp Daddy said:


> My dealings were with Algerians , Libyans , Syrians and Pakistanis over a 15 yr period at various intervals  and Tin i said try negotiation BUT do not let it turn into a downward open ended  spiral . sEt specific expectations with time dated elements that have consequences if mnot upheld ....THAT is what works ...not continual weakness and vacuuous , meaningless, never ending talk without consequence . Moreover with todays smart technology genocide can be avoided but leadership and followship targets can be pin pointed



Agreed...  Thanks for the good discussion.  Improtant to get insight into why things happen from someone expereinced it for themselves.. 

The term "Insha'Allah" can  be used to put things off..
Falling back on "if god wills it"...  Not getting stuff done..
No personal consequences..


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## ScottySkis (Nov 14, 2015)

So sad RIP everyone effected in any way. Unbelievable sad sad  sad day again for the world.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 14, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Let's focus on what's more important:
> 
> How did they acquire freaking grenades?
> 
> ...




Paris is easy to get in to..  Makes it an easy target.
And has a history of racial unrest...


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 14, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Let's focus on what's more important:
> 
> How did they acquire freaking grenades?
> 
> Why are Syrians let alone ones on a terrorist watch list allowed into the country?



If these people were members of ISIS like they are reporting, then its not difficult at all. Isis is a fully equipped army wagering a full on war in Syria. All they need to do is ship some equipment were it is needed.
As for how the Syrians got into France? All they had to do was claim to be a refuge. There are hundreda of thousands of refuges flooding into all the western countries of the world. Many of them have no papers on who they are.


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 14, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> If these people were members of ISIS like they are reporting, then its not difficult at all. Isis is a fully equipped army wagering a full on war in Syria. All they need to do is ship some equipment were it is needed.
> As for how the Syrians got into France? All they had to do was claim to be a refuge. There are hundreda of thousands of refuges flooding into all the western countries of the world. Many of them have no papers on who they are.



Why carry a passport then?


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## steamboat1 (Nov 14, 2015)

http://joemiller.us/2015/11/7-terrifying-facts-about-islamic-immigration/


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## deadheadskier (Nov 14, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> The French surrendered.



How would you feel if French people were ridiculing NYC after 9/11?

129 dead and the number is climbing

Show a little respect


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> How would you feel if French people were ridiculing NYC after 9/11?
> 
> 129 dead and the number is climbing
> 
> Show a little respect



I think we know the answer to that..


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 14, 2015)

MadMadWorld said:


> Why carry a passport then?



These people did not have passports. They claimed to be refuges.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 14, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I think we know the answer to that..



Why don't you tell everyone again how much the French love the Muslims like you did on another site.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> How would you feel if French people were ridiculing NYC after 9/11?
> 
> 129 dead and the number is climbing
> 
> Show a little respect



+1


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## Tin (Nov 14, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> These people did not have passports. They claimed to be refuges.




Not true. A gunman at the concert hall was French and known to police. Another has been identified as Egyptian. Read something before posting. There could have been/probably are some who claimed to be refuges involved. However, to label this as an attack done by people pretending to be refuges who snuck in does nothing but push the immigration agenda. The same thing that happens after a mass shooting in the U.S. Lives are used to push agendas due to the emotion created.


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## freeski (Nov 14, 2015)

Tin's right it's not just the refugees. 
Hollande has said this was an act of war, so we'll see if SB1 is right or if France fights. France does not have any heavy bombers, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt. Hollande is low energy. I wish them luck. 
In a way I am more sympathetic to Paris than, oh say, L.A. France helped us defeat Britain and gave us the Statue of Liberty. I fear the U.S. will not provide the help we should.


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 14, 2015)

Tin said:


> Not true. A gunman at the concert hall was French and known to police. Another has been identified as Egyptian. Read something before posting. There could have been/probably are some who claimed to be refuges involved. However, to label this as an attack done by people pretending to be refuges who snuck in does nothing but push the immigration agenda. The same thing that happens after a mass shooting in the U.S. Lives are used to push agendas due to the emotion created.



ISIS is not a nationality.  It is a group of like minded religious extremists.  While many of them are from Iraq, and Syria there fighters come from all over the world(even the USA...)  Therefore if they do posses a passport, its not going to list ISIS as its origination so the immigration officer can easily reject them.  these people came from all over the world to fight in the middle east.  Not very hard to send these people off in the shipments of refuges to destinations in the western world.  
I read a passport was found on at least 1 of the attackers.  Just because they possessed a passport, does not mean that they used it while transporting with the rest of the refuges.  Or they could be a unknown name to authorities(we do not know the name and information on every person fighting for these groups)


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## drjeff (Nov 14, 2015)

Warp Daddy said:


> Unfortunately my experience in dealing with middle eastern clients with similar rlifious persuasions leads me to believe that they employ NON- Aristotelian logic which utterly confuses almost all Western educated people .
> 
> Aristotle's logic usually expresses things in either or type of propositions whereas this is often NOT the case with religious zealotry in that part of the world . This renders cooperative negotiations both cumbersome and onerous and entirely futile inmy limited experience .
> 
> ...



Warp, thank you for your professional impression of what basic cultural differences are at play here!

Far better analysis than any pundit talking away on most media outlets today


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## yeggous (Nov 14, 2015)

freeski said:


> Tin's right it's not just the refugees.
> Hollande has said this was an act of war, so we'll see if SB1 is right or if France fights. France does not have any heavy bombers, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt. Hollande is low energy. I wish them luck.
> In a way I am more sympathetic to Paris than, oh say, L.A. France helped us defeat Britain and gave us the Statue of Liberty. I fear the U.S. will not provide the help we should.



I imagine we're going to be directly involved in this. All the French need to do is invoke the NATO charter. This is what we did after 9/11.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 14, 2015)

We've taken the heaviest toll for 15 years now.  I'm not saying we shouldn't be involved as the national security risk is very real. What's Paris today could be Louisville tomorrow.  

That said, I'd like to see a coalition of 500k EU troops on the ground across Iraq, Syria and beyond.  Swift assassination of anyone remotely associated with ISIS.  Severe economic sanctions against Saudi Arabia, Yemen, any nation in the area that does not fully focus on eliminating Islamic extremists in their countries.

This crap has got to stop


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## Not Sure (Nov 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> We've taken the heaviest toll for 15 years now.  I'm not saying we shouldn't be involved as the national security risk is very real. What's Paris today could be Louisville tomorrow.



Spoke with my Son today, he's active duty and said Our some of our soldiers are  receiving phone death threats in an Arabic accents at their residences!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 14, 2015)

That's awful. Domestic residences?


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## Not Sure (Nov 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> That's awful. Domestic residences?


Yes , Threats against soldiers and family members


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## deadheadskier (Nov 14, 2015)

How do you think they got your son's contact information?


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## Not Sure (Nov 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> How do you think they got your son's contact information?



Not him ,yet. His Battalion .


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Yes , Threats against soldiers and family members



Terrible


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## freeski (Nov 15, 2015)

There are websites were ISIS gives the names and domestic addresses of military families and asks sympathizers to attack them. I can only imagine the horror of receiving one of those calls. It's too bad it took this attack to bring the attention ISIS deserves with all of the other attacks and signs that have  been in place. I hope the world can come together on this. As others have said that is what will be needed to eliminate this threat. It is vital the Muslim countries do their part as they are powerful nations and it would help to bring moderate Muslims against ISIS.
I'd like to say the French should nuke Raqqah, but I realize this would be like poking a hornets nest. Also, for the sake of humanity no one should ever use these weapons again. However, France needs to do something strong and the world needs to follow up with a united campaign to put an end to this.


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## Not Sure (Nov 15, 2015)

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/
I wouldn't expect much help from Muslim countries given the results of this poll in the US.
Can imagine the numbers would only be higher under Muslim rule.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2015)

If a Muslim shows support of Shariah law, they should be deported immediately. I'm all for religious freedom, but there is separation of church and state in this country.  Denouncing shariah law should be a condition of citizenship.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 15, 2015)

freeski said:


> There are websites were ISIS gives the names and domestic addresses of military families and asks sympathizers to attack them.



ISIL scraped all those names and addresses off public internet sites where unfortunately our military people left the information for all to see..   Many of the addresses are old and don't even match up to current..


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 15, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If a Muslim shows support of Shariah law, they should be deported immediately. I'm all for religious freedom, but there is separation of church and state in this country.  Denouncing shariah law should be a condition of citizenship.



Don't all Muslims practice some sort of Sharia law?


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 15, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If a Muslim shows support of Shariah law, they should be deported immediately. I'm all for religious freedom, but there is separation of church and state in this country.  Denouncing shariah law should be a condition of citizenship.



Don't all Muslims practice some sort of Sharia law?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2015)

There are plenty of moderates in all religions that support secularism over religious law.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 15, 2015)

From post #49:

Sentiments of American Muslims: According  to a poll commissioned by the Center for Security Policy, 51% of Muslims  living in America believe “Muslims in America should have the choice of  being governed according to sharia.”  Twenty-nine percent agree that  violence against those who insult Mohammad is acceptable and 25% agree  that violence against America can be justified as part of Global Jihad.   Among males under the age of 45 that number rises to 36%. Twenty-nine  percent of males under 45 believe that violence against America is  justified in order to make Sharia the law of the land. Just 34% of males  under 45 believe that if Sharia conflicts with the U.S. Constitution  and the Bill of Rights our Founding documents should be considered  supreme.


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## darent (Nov 15, 2015)

If Sharia Law is so important to the US Muslims ,why don't they move to a country that is ruled by Sharia Law.


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## Puck it (Nov 15, 2015)

darent said:


> If Sharia Law is so important to the US Muslims ,why don't they move to a country that is ruled by Sharia Law.


So true.  And a religion that treats women as second class citizens.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 15, 2015)

Puck it said:


> So true.  And a religion that treats women as second class citizens.



You mean like Judaism?


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## Puck it (Nov 15, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You mean like Judaism?


If the religion does then yes.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 16, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> There are plenty of moderates in all religions that support secularism over religious law.



Lot's of religions have their own laws that they use..
I was raised with Christian "laws"...  I have friends that live by their Jewish or Hindu laws..


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 16, 2015)

darent said:


> If Sharia Law is so important to the US Muslims ,why don't they move to a country that is ruled by Sharia Law.



Same could be said for Jews and Hindu's...

Religious laws are very important to many US citizens..


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2015)

But should never supersede secular law......


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 16, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> But should never supersede secular law......



Agree...

I just hesitate to hit it with a broad stroke..


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## wa-loaf (Nov 16, 2015)

John Oliver!


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## dlague (Nov 16, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> From post #49:
> 
> Sentiments of American Muslims: According  to a poll commissioned by the Center for Security Policy, 51% of Muslims  living in America believe “Muslims in America should have the choice of  being governed according to sharia.”  Twenty-nine percent agree that  violence against those who insult Mohammad is acceptable and 25% agree  that violence against America can be justified as part of Global Jihad.   Among males under the age of 45 that number rises to 36%. Twenty-nine  percent of males under 45 believe that violence against America is  justified in order to make Sharia the law of the land. Just 34% of males  under 45 believe that if Sharia conflicts with the U.S. Constitution  and the Bill of Rights our Founding documents should be considered  supreme.



No worries!  They will be the minority and since we do not want to offend the minority ever in this country with a majority view, we will change ours laws to suit minority interests.  Oh and don't forget the speaking point - terrorism in on the increase over the past decade due to global warming.


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## Bostonian (Nov 16, 2015)

What I find interesting about this whole religious debate / discussion is this:

While religious laws, interpreted at face value can be viewed as draconian, violent, and etc - it is up to the leaders (clerics and etc), to help explain these laws.  I cannot speak for other religions; however, as a Jew - I can empirically state that while the Torah may state - XYZ, the commentaries by the rabbis over the millennia have reflected on those words, and drawn up inferences to give them more of a moral story, rather than "An eye for an eye".  That saying is interpreted by the rabbis as more of a tort case - (the loss of an eye, should result in consisting of payment for "Damages, Pain, Medical Expenses, Incapacitation, and Mental Anguish" rather than having two blind people).  

Islam it seems, as viewing it as an outsider especially in the countries such as Iran, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, Syria and so on  promote the strictest sense of Islamic law.    that is just my perception though, I could certainly be wrong.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 16, 2015)

Just as strictness of religious law interpretation depends on the sect of Judaism.
The same can be said for Christianity and Islam.  
And within those sects there are sub sects that subscribe to different interpretation


----------



## Puck it (Nov 16, 2015)

There are zealots in all religions but it is the shear number of them in Islam that makes it a problem.  It is the most popular.  


Buddhist Extremist just does not go together.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 16, 2015)

Puck it said:


> There are zealots in all religions but it is the shear number of them in Islam that makes it a problem.  It is the most popular.
> 
> 
> Buddhist Extremist just does not go together.




Every religion goes through reformation..
Judaism... Christianity... Were all killing people back in the day..
Islam will too..

Myanmar actually has an extreme Buddhist sect that wants all Muslims dead after attacks on Buddhists..
They call him the Burmese Bin Laden...  It's true


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 16, 2015)

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Excellent article from The Atlantic back in February about ISIS' goals and plans. Not sure how to negotiate with a group who has stated their goal is to bring about the final battle that leads to The Day of Judgment. 

In the end, I think a cancer-related analogy is best. ISIS (and other large scale violent ideological movements) is a mass of cancerous cells. You can either attack it on the periphery, taking out a lymph node here, a chunk of lung there, and eventually be consumed by it, or you can go in, cut the whole lump out, hit some heavy chemo, and hope you kill the cancer before you kill the body. Some healthy cells will die, as well, but the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. 

There is no negotiating with cancer. There is no negotiating with ISIS. They don't want anything that can be granted by negotiation. They won't respond to appeasement. They are committed to returning civilization to a seventh-century legal environment, and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse. Period. They believe that the armies of Rome will meet the armies of Islam at Dabiq, in the desert of northern Syria, where Rome will be defeated and the hour of judgment will commence. 

Is it possible to nuke all the lands claimed as part of the caliphate, and say "Sorry" to Turkey, Iran, Israel, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia, not to mention all the non-ISIS supporters in the area, and anyone downwind? Not sure- that's a tall order. But maybe it's worth considering.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2015)

Nuclear cannot be an option ever again.  It's not a WW2 scenario where we are the only ones with the bombs.  We may still have the most, but there are others.

Would it be "cleanest" for coalition interests as in fastest and obviously far less casualties than a ground campaign?  Sure, but it would still be a form of genocide.

I think there needs to be tremendous pressure for reform on the stable nations in additionally to military theater with ISIS.   The "good" guys like the Saudis, our "friends" still decapitate people with shocking regularity for small crimes.  There needs to be wholesale cultural changes that brings people away from such savagery.


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 16, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> There needs to be wholesale cultural changes that brings people away from such savagery.



Agree- that would be best, but how can it be accomplished? Of course, nuclear isn't really an option, but in the end, that's the impact any strategy would need to have. 

It's hard to defeat an ideology, particularly when the adherents have very well reasoned and thought out beliefs that what they are doing is not savagery, but is, instead, good, holy, and right. Slavery is OK. Killing Jews because they're Jewish is OK. Enslaving Christians who agree to be taxed and not killed, as long as they're not Jewish, is OK. Burning people alive in cages is OK, as long as they're A) Jewish or B) a different, but similar, religion. 

How do you change that? Isolation won't work, because the final battle is the destiny. Negotiation won't work, because they'll kill you anyway. 

Maybe the better analogy is to a rat with fleas. Until you kill the rat, the flees will keep coming, spreading plagues and sucking blood. Kill all the fleas you want, it won't matter. Figure out what the rat is, and exterminate it. But then, the question is how? Nuclear would be killing the rat by burning down the neighborhood, but it's a big rat.


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 16, 2015)

Killing everyone is antithetical to Western civilized world but the Cancer anology is spot on ! Just as 9/11 brought everyone together I hope people wake up and stop thinking in terms of PC. It's a threat to our world to allow this Cancer to spread!

 The Muslim birth rate disparity is a huge problem . The West has chosen to live a high lifestyle than have tons of kids . Infidels will be a minority eventually.

 World leaders need to have a Master plan or Prohibition on teaching the aforementioned parts of Islam. This will no doubt inflame many Muslims , but will expose the trouble makers and bring them out of the shadows so they can be dealt with.

No way to Vet refugees ,no matter what our government says. Send them to other parts of the middle east . They can be fed and cared for in Saudi Arabia. Opp"s that's right they support Isis . Long columns of brand new Toyota picks with Isis flags.


----------



## Puck it (Nov 16, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Every religion goes through reformation..
> Judaism... Christianity... Were all killing people back in the day..
> Islam will too..
> 
> ...


Wow. A non peaceful Buddhist. Who would have thunk it?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 16, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Nuclear cannot be an option ever again.  It's not a WW2 scenario where we are the only ones with the bombs.  We may still have the most, but there are others.
> 
> Would it be "cleanest" for coalition interests as in fastest and obviously far less casualties than a ground campaign?  Sure, but it would still be a form of genocide.
> 
> I think there needs to be tremendous pressure for reform on the stable nations in additionally to military theater with ISIS.   The "good" guys like the Saudis, our "friends" still decapitate people with shocking regularity for small crimes.  There needs to be wholesale cultural changes that brings people away from such savagery.



Reform went out the window long ago. The majority of the population is against western culture and beliefs. I guess we could go the Dubai route and show them how cool it is to own a G6 and drive around in a Porcsche. Capitalism at its best


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2015)

You're probably right.  I just don't see military force ever being truly enough to change things.  It needs to be a big part, but there needs to be social change.  

I guess what I'm thinking in general is that they need a very powerful and motivating Muslim leader that believes in basic human rights.  A "Pope Francis" of the Muslim world so to speak.  

Maybe that's too much to ask


----------



## Puck it (Nov 16, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> You're probably right.  I just don't see military force ever being truly enough to change things.  It needs to be a big part, but there needs to be social change.
> 
> I guess what I'm thinking in general is that they need a very powerful and motivating Muslim leader that believes in basic human rights.  A "Pope Francis" of the Muslim world so to speak.
> 
> Maybe that's too much to ask


Smokin' a little of the wacky tabacky.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2015)

Ha! I wish. Gave it up when I started working in medical.

Actually maybe that's the solution. Air drop thousands of ponds of ganja throughout the whole region.  People typically aren't violent when stoned.


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 16, 2015)




----------



## freeski (Nov 16, 2015)

So far SB1 is right. No talk of destroying ISIS. French dropped 20 bombs? I guess we just need jets so we can get to the target fast. ISIS has no airforce nor air defences.  We could bomb them with Cessnas (maybe a payload issue). Also, the U.S. bombed a lot of trucks that carry oil for ISIS. First, the U.S. dropped letters telling the drivers what we were going to do so they wouldn't get hurt. Wouldn't it have been better to kill the sympathizers driving the trucks? Would we have won the World Wars fighting like this? Are we the greatest generation or the weakest?


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 16, 2015)

What would Vladimir Putin have done? Gas em' all dammit!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hostage-crisis-in-moscow-theater


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 16, 2015)




----------



## Tin (Nov 16, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


>






LOL. Come on dude. Bit of a difference in power and resources. Not to mention the inaccurate number. The NAZI party won the vote in 1932 with over 30%. I'm sure that increased by 1940. 

This being said extremists are extremists. But wrong or grossly misleading info is just as dangerous if not more so...Didn't the NAZIs use propaganda like this?


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 16, 2015)




----------



## skiNEwhere (Nov 17, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


>



I'd like to know how big the sample size was on that video to get that result. 10? 50? 100?


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 17, 2015)

skiNEwhere said:


> I'd like to know how big the sample size was on that video to get that result. 10? 50? 100?



Given that the guy's name is Ami Horowitz, there may be some bias in that video...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

It's an election year... Trust no one.. 
Fear and bias is their tool to get you to vote..  

Don't vote because of fear.


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 17, 2015)




----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

This thread is bad....  Nothing good will come from it now the memes are flying..
So much I want to say - but I'm not...  Cause I don't communicate with memes.

All I'll say is this is an exact replay of the last pre-election cycle.
Don't vote because of fear!!!

I'm out... Peace!!!


----------



## Tin (Nov 17, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


>




Since I'm an extreme radical gnar shredder am I a terrorist? Is the Christian right or Bernie-left a terror organization because their "radical" views deviate from center? Radical or extremist (and its arbitrary definition) =/= terrorist.


----------



## Tin (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> This thread is bad....  Nothing good will come from it now the memes are flying..



It just demonstrates who has ZERO critical thinking skills. This is exactly what people with agendas want to happen after a tragedy. Blinded by fear and hate.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

Tin said:


> It just demonstrates who has ZERO critical thinking skills. This is exactly what people with agendas want to happen after a tragedy. Blinded by fear and hate.



indeed...  Filling in the blanks that you can't orate with memes automatically put people into the "not worthy of paying attention to" category for me..


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 17, 2015)




----------



## freeski (Nov 17, 2015)

Tin & FC: You do realize they want to kill you?


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

freeski said:


> Tin & FC: You do realize they want to kill you?



Not even going to respond..  Even though I know that is a response..  still...  hahah..


----------



## freeski (Nov 17, 2015)

They want to kill you and your family. Even the moderates want you to convert to their religion. This is a battle of civilizations. I wish we could negotiate an end, but there is no way of doing this. The Paris attacks have brought a lot of attention to this battle. For me it was trying to wipe out the Christians in the Middle East. They are committing genocide pure and simple. In the 1940's many looked the other way and the civilized world said never again. We need to wipe out the extremists and recognize them for the monsters they are.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

There's people in Texas and Arizona that want to kill me because of the way I voted..  Or my stance on women's health and guns..
All kinds of people want to kill me.. 

But thanks I won't turn my back on the Muslim's I know and consider friends.. 
Gowsh - I hope they are cooler than moderate...  hahaha..


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2015)

Freeski,

We agree on some things and not others.

No, moderate Muslims do not wish you to convert.  No more so than moderate Christians, Jews, etc.   In any religion, if the goal is to convert, then they are fundamentalists, not moderates.

I do agree with wiping out the extremists. The job is so complex though.

The challenge I have is our actions of foreign policy often creates extremism.  We constantly pick a side and arm people, only for them to turn out to be evil.  

The other challenge I have is why do we look the other way on Shariah law with our "friends." Why is it okay for beheadings and stonings to take place in Saudi Arabia?  That's the very definition of extremism and as long as that still goes on, there will be no end to this situation.  

I'm a progressive in many ways, but can't get behind the idea of "if we leave the M.E. and just leave them alone, terrorism will die."  Well, we leave Saudi Arabia alone and there's government sponsored domestic terrorism there as a way of life.  It's got to stop everywhere, including with "our friends."


----------



## Tin (Nov 17, 2015)

freeski said:


> They want to kill you and your family. Even the moderates want you to convert to their religion. This is a battle of civilizations.



This is EXACTLY what the extremists and media outlets want. This type of thinking. 



freeski said:


> They are committing genocide pure and simple. In the 1940's many looked the other way and the civilized world said never again. We need to wipe out the extremists and recognize them for the monsters they are.



And like in the late 1930s we will once again turn away refugees trying to escape horror and death? 



freeski said:


> We need to wipe out the extremists and recognize them for the monsters they are.



I have no disagreement with this.


----------



## wtcobb (Nov 17, 2015)

+1 Tin. 

Hate begets hate. This is an organization driven by creating fear and hatred around the world. When we lose our humanity and compassion, when fear and suspicion turns into xenophobia and bigotry, they've won.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> This thread is bad



From the time it started.


----------



## yeggous (Nov 17, 2015)

JimG. said:


> From the time it started.



Yes, this reaction is exactly what the Islamic State wants. Westerns get angry and persecute muslims in Western countries. This persecution radicalizes the persecuted and begets more extremists.


----------



## freeski (Nov 17, 2015)

wtcobb said:


> +1 Tin.
> 
> Hate begets hate. This is an organization driven by creating fear and hatred around the world. When we lose our humanity and compassion, when fear and suspicion turns into xenophobia and bigotry, they've won.


I agree also. I was raised to believe "you do not hate anyone, you just dislike their ways". It's hard to think of a more messed up situation for the world to be in. I think most of us agree though that we can't just put our heads in the sand and pretend this will pass. It won't. There are people who recognize this for what it is and those who want to ignore and hope for the best.


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 17, 2015)

You guys should really read that article from The Atlantic. It's not Islam that's a problem- Islam is just the excuse. I'm quite certain you can put together an interpretation of Christian writings to accomplish much the same thing. The end goal is Armageddon- work backwards from there. Hell, you could probably do the same with Shintoism, Zoroastrianism, or any other -ism you'd like. If you get caught up in names, you lose, because you miss the point.

I heard this morning briefly that the Syrian passport they found was a fake, likely planted by the bombers. I think this sounds like a very well thought out, elaborate plan. It goes something like this:

1) Investigators find the Syrian passport. Kneejerk reaction: The terrorists are sneaking in as refugees! Close the borders! 
2) Discover the passport is fake. Kneejerk reaction: It's not the refugees after all- let the poor suffering fools in! 
3) Open borders. Profit.

The folks at ISIS are very smart. They are very organized. They are very, very driven. They are operating from a completely different playbook. They have a set of goals that we're not equipped to understand. We can't play by the political rules and expect to survive. The dangerous balance for us, as Westerners, is to do what is necessary, compromise our principles enough, but not too much. Maybe we have to temporarily give up some of our humanity, to avoid having it all taken away from us. We are staring into the abyss, here, and it is staring back at us.


----------



## Edd (Nov 17, 2015)

The Islamic State claimed responsibility for the Russian plane bombing. 

http://gawker.com/russia-confirms-bomb-brought-down-plane-begins-bombing-1742983086

Prior to this, my understanding was that they weren't really bombing ISIS targets and now they are. Crazy. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2015)

This is kind of what I'm talking about in our misguided support for people / nation states that are just as bad ISIS.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-approves-1-29bn-sale-bombs-saudi-arabia-170132936.html


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 17, 2015)

freeski said:


> I agree also. I was raised to believe "you do not hate anyone, you just dislike their ways". It's hard to think of a more messed up situation for the world to be in. I think most of us agree though that we can't just put our heads in the sand and pretend this will pass. It won't. There are people who recognize this for what it is and those who want to ignore and hope for the best.



+1  Reasons why they hate us 
Jack Daniels , Bikinis , Free speech , Freedom of religion , Women drivers ,support for Israel , recently added Gay Marriage .
If you believe in any if these things you are a target .

I don't think any other religion comes close to the  violent  acts done in its name .


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I don't think any other religion comes close to the  violent  acts done in its name .



Google "The Crusades"..


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Google "The Crusades"..



Yes , When you do note the dates ....After or in response to the Muslim incursions. Overboard, perhaps?
also many years ago pre reforms.


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 17, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Yes , When you do note the dates ....After or in response to the Muslim incursions. Overboard, perhaps?
> also many years ago pre reforms.



https://factreal.wordpress.com/2010...d-four-centuries-before-the-western-crusades/


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Yes , When you do note the dates ....After or in response to the Muslim incursions. Overboard, perhaps?
> also many years ago pre reforms.



A lot of it was - convert or be tortured...  Kind of like ISIS..

Islam will be going through a reform once people rise up and stop this nonsense..
Just like every other religion has..


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> A lot of it was - covert or be tortured...  Kind of like ISIS..
> 
> Islam will be going through a reform once people rise up and stop this nonsense..
> Just like every other religion has..



I hope you are right!

A riddle for now , What does  a stone have have in common with a Moderate Muslim ?
A . Neither one has an opinion.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I hope you are right!



I hope I am too..

Sorry - Your joke sucked..  Broadbrush... Not the way I live my life..


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I hope I am too..
> 
> Sorry - Your joke sucked..  Broadbrush... Not the way I live my life..


Peace


----------



## Puck it (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I hope I am too..
> 
> Sorry - Your joke sucked..  Broadbrush... Not the way I live my life..


but how long and how many innocent people will die trying to enjoy life.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

Puck it said:


> but how long and how many innocent people will die trying to enjoy life.



I can't answer that..  
Nobody can answer that..

I'm already against the next war...


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 17, 2015)

In other news, Anonymous shut down 5,500 twitter accounts...how does that help? They must be pissed that they have to build up their followers all over again!!


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2015)

I believe it was said it was the Twitter accounts of ISIS recruiters and it also gave names and addresses for the account holders.  Probably fairly meaningless ultimately


----------



## Puck it (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I can't answer that..
> Nobody can answer that..
> 
> I'm already against the next war...


rhetorical.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 17, 2015)

Puck it said:


> rhetorical.



I'll take that...


----------



## MadMadWorld (Nov 17, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I believe it was said it was the Twitter accounts of ISIS recruiters and it also gave names and addresses for the account holders.  Probably fairly meaningless ultimately



Well that's better. These guys hide behind masks in the videos so it probably pisses them off if they are getting outed.


----------



## dlague (Nov 17, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> A lot of it was - convert or be tortured...  Kind of like ISIS..
> 
> Islam will be going through a reform once people rise up and stop this nonsense..
> Just like every other religion has..



The key - rise up!  The peaceful Islamist are saying anything!  No protests - nothing!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2015)

dlague said:


> The key - rise up!  The peaceful Islamist are saying anything!  No protests - nothing!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I would love to see people rise up myself, I just don't know how it happens.

We tried arming the Free Syrian Army to take down Assad.  Some would say that only helped contribute to the rapid rise of ISIS. 

How do you reform Islam to rid itself of Extremism in modern society with this many people involved?  Iran has 80 million people, they conduct public executions.  Saudi Arabia has 29 million people, they do the same thing.  How do you rationalize with a population of people that allows women to get stoned in the town square for the act of adultery.  It's unfathomable to me that such people even exist.


----------



## freeski (Nov 17, 2015)

Wow, stunned by Turkish soccer fans booing moment of silence for Paris. I don't consider this to be the action of moderates. Other reports claim they then chanted ala albar. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/turkey-fans-boo-minutes-silence-paris-victims-210843101--sow.html


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Protests are happening..  Not a lot of coverage.. But I set up a news search and I see stuff every day.

I venture to say it's not as easy as you'd think to protest a thing like ISIS in ISIS territory..
And given the mafia tactics that groups like ISIS aspire to - I'd be afraid for my family if I said something..

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/11/18/paris-attacks-indias-larg_n_8587082.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/muslim-domin...-negative-views-isis-pew-survey-finds-2189491

http://abc7.com/society/muslims-speak-out-against-isis-following-paris-terror-attacks/1086310/

https://www.rt.com/news/189168-german-muslims-protest-isis/

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-Muslims-protest-ISIS.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11545786

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslims-in-france-protest-against-extremism/


----------



## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

I heard this analogy this morning on the refugees.

If you had a bunch of grapes and knew only one was poisoned and there was no way of telling.  Would you feed them to your child?


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> I heard this analogy this morning on the refugees.
> 
> If you had a bunch of grapes and knew only one was poisoned and there was no way of telling.  Would you feed them to your child?



People are not fruit..  

sorry - just the way I feel..


----------



## jimk (Nov 18, 2015)

Sad, but telling about how serious this is that it might bring closer cooperation between France, US and Russia, a strange pol-mil ménage à trois.  Here in the DC area there is a general uneasiness.  9-11 seems not so long ago.  At times like this I'd rather be, more than ever, far away in the mtns skiing instead of riding mass transit during rush hour or subject to other vulnerable urban situations. :roll:
This afternoon I will ride my bicycle home from work.  It keeps me out of that big hole in the ground - the subway, which even in normal times can be unreliable, sketchy, and hideously crowded. Still don't like surrendering my destiny to the whims of mass transit even though I've used it for years.

PS:  just adding that there are a lot of great moderate Muslims out there.  We need to reach out to them all around us and let them know we appreciate their peace and harmony,  meanwhile don't go easy on ISIS thugs.


----------



## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> People are not fruit..
> 
> sorry - just the way I feel..


very narrow minded repsonse


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 18, 2015)

Perhaps the better solution than war is to endure distasteful tactics at home. Follow the French example, declare a state of emergency, and take the gloves off for a little while. Do what we can to hit the rat where the fleas breed, and get after the rats on our carpet at home.

Of course, taking the power back from the government once ISIS burns itself out will be tough...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> very narrow minded repsonse




A narrow response..  To respond to an ill formed statement.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

ctenidae said:


> Perhaps the better solution than war is to endure distasteful tactics at home. Follow the French example, declare a state of emergency, and take the gloves off for a little while. Do what we can to hit the rat where the fleas breed, and get after the rats on our carpet at home.
> 
> Of course, taking the power back from the government once ISIS burns itself out will be tough...



Patriot Act?


----------



## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> A narrow response..  To respond to an ill formed statement.


you are unbelievable.


----------



## freeski (Nov 18, 2015)

Posted two years ago on K-Zone by DMC:

I spent last week in Paris with my girlfriend... It was great!
Muslims are everywhere! interacting with society.. Smiling at people... Sitting in cafe's.
Enjoying art at the museums... just awesome...

If we stop treating the Muslims here in the US like criminals maybe we can reach this level of integration where we can all get along in this society of immigrants...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> you are unbelievable.



Thanks!


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

freeski said:


> Posted two years ago on K-Zone by DMC:
> 
> I spent last week in Paris with my girlfriend... It was great!
> Muslims are everywhere! interacting with society.. Smiling at people... Sitting in cafe's.
> ...



Thanks for reposting..  I really appreciate this..

And I stand by that statement..
Paris was amazing..  the people were great!!


----------



## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

freeski said:


> Posted two years ago on K-Zone by DMC:
> 
> I spent last week in Paris with my girlfriend... It was great!
> Muslims are everywhere! interacting with society.. Smiling at people... Sitting in cafe's.
> ...


 Waste of your digital breath to try and discuss anything with him.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Waste of your digital breath to try and discuss anything with him.



You're entitled to your opinion..
It's cool..    
I like it when Conservatives/Tea Party people interact with society too!!!  All good..


----------



## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> You're entitled to your opinion..
> It's cool..
> I like it when Conservatives/Tea Party people interact with society too!!!  All good..


You keep calling me that and obviously you have no idea who I am or what I send for. So stop calling me things that are not true. I just find that you are a person that has their mind set and all others are wrong and there is no way you see others viewpoints.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> You keep calling me that and obviously you have no idea who I am or what I send for. So stop calling me things that are not true. I just find that you are a person that has their mind set and all others are wrong and there is no way you see others viewpoints.



I didn't think it was a bad thing for you... sorry..

I won't do it again...
Respect..  

But I doubt I'm going to sway to your beliefs. We are pretty different where thats concerned.
My beliefs are driven by compassion for all people.


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## bigbog (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Paris is easy to get in to..  Makes it an easy target.
> And has a history of racial unrest...



..ie not much blue-collar work, especially for immigrants + government higher-ups who spend more time wineing and dining than  record-keeping for security-sake.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

bigbog said:


> ..ie not much blue-collar work, especially for immigrants + government higher-ups who spend more time wineing and dining than  record-keeping for security-sake.



thanks for that... Gives me something to read up on tonight..


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## freeski (Nov 18, 2015)

FC: For what it's worth, I think the world would be a much worse place without people like you. An old band said it best: "The bleeding hearts and artists... who walk up and down outside the wall..."


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

France went to town with raids this morning. 

I'm starting to think it is the "disorganized" attacks such as last Friday nights could be more likely to slip through the cracks than the mastermind plots. Unfortunately propane tank bombs and rifles can be just as horrible and deadly.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

freeski said:


> FC: For what it's worth, I think the world would be a much worse place without people like you. An old band said it best: "The bleeding hearts and artists... who walk up and down outside the wall..."



Thanks!
It takes all opinions..  

My interest in Buddhism is teaching me mindfullness..  
Which is my big struggle for me.  
But I think it's key for me to learn to be able to step back and try to understand in the moment.

blah blah blah...


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

Well said FC. Mindfulness is something we could all use more of.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> Well said FC. Mindfulness is something we could all use more of.



The struggle is to be firmly in the moment and practice it..
My instinct is the fight first..


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

Knee-jerk reactions/cognitions are hard to break. And make up 90% of this thread.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> Knee-jerk reactions/cognitions are hard to break. And make up 90% of this thread.



 totes....


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> My beliefs are driven by compassion for all people.



What about the compassion for the inocent 129 killed last week in Paris?


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## Not Sure (Nov 18, 2015)

Amazing .stopped at a Taco Bell for lunch listening to 6 total strangers having a conversation about Paris and issues at home , haven't seen this since 9/11


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> What about the compassion for the inocent 129 killed last week in Paris?



I feel terrible about the loss of life for sure..
As well as I feel bad for the people injured and those who lost loved ones..


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## JimG. (Nov 18, 2015)

JimG. said:


> From the time it started.



Here we go!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 18, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> What about the compassion for the inocent 129 killed last week in Paris?



Where does he say he does not have compassion for those lives lost?

129 innocent civilians die daily in Syria and people question why they run?

Where is the world's compassion for the 32 dead and 80 injured in Nigeria today?

It's not a top story on any mainstream news sites.  No calls for air strikes on Boko Haram.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Whats crazy is the lack of news on these other attacks has become more news than the actual news..  

did that make sense..?

Al Jazeera is in my news feed so I knew about it..


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Where does he say he does not have compassion for those lives lost?
> 
> 129 innocent civilians die daily in Syria and people question why they run?
> 
> ...


Dailymail had it last night.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Read

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Read
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html



Can you summarize it for us that have to use phones to read articles while working?


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Can you summarize it for us that have to use phones to read articles while working?


*Revealed: The enemy within. Nearly SEVENTY are arrested in America over ISIS plots - and they include refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'*



*Federal and local law enforcement agencies have made dozens of arrests of men and women suspected of ISIS involvement*
*Analysis shows that they include refugees who entered the United States as refugees *
*
from the article summary
*


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Sounds like law enforcement is doing their job...
Well done!!!


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> *Revealed: The enemy within. Nearly SEVENTY are arrested in America over ISIS plots - and they include refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The few refugees mentioned had been in the states for nearly a decade, or more, and came from Bosnia or Kenya. All the other examples were "home-grown" U.S. extremists. Great headline click-bait.


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## wtcobb (Nov 18, 2015)

> If you had a bunch of grapes and knew only one was poisoned and there was no way of telling.  Would you feed them to your child?



The issue here is "knew" - not an appropriate assessment of the situation. What's happened is that someone in the neighborhood seemingly had a poisoned grape. So now are we to suspect all grapes around the world - including the ones we already have in our fridge - of being poisoned?

Following that suspicion, we'll stop eating grapes that are already in our fridge - we'll stop eating grapes that were even grown in our yards that we know are not poisoned. Better throw out the jelly too. The fear against grapes grows into apprehension of anything even associated with grapes. Grape juice? Must be bad. Wine? Forget it. The color purple? Grape apologists are known to follow this color.







Raisins? Holy f*&k they're now able to last outside the fridge! Blueberries also grow in clusters - they seem untrustworthy, too. But wait - olives sort of look like grapes! Better stop the production and importation of olive oil and tapenade. 

Soon our kids forget what a grape was even like - but they know it's bad. Grapes and berries and all things purple are now just something to be feared, without reason, simply on the premise of being somewhat seemingly kinda sorta related to a grape.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> The few refugees mentioned had been in the states for almost ten years or more and came from Bosnia or Kenya. All the other examples were "home-grown" U.S. extremists. Great headline click-bait.


Yes that is true but they were refugees at one point and some are home grown no denying it.  The poison grape will come out of the bunch at some point.


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

I do not deny that. I wish people would actually analyze all this info instead of spreading the fear and panic.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

wtcobb said:


> The issue here is "knew" - not an appropriate assessment of the situation. What's happened is that someone in the neighborhood seemingly had a poisoned grape. So now are we to suspect all grapes around the world - including the ones we already have in our fridge - of being poisoned?
> 
> Following that suspicion, we'll stop eating grapes that are already in our fridge - we'll stop eating grapes that were even grown in our yards that we know are not poisoned. Better throw out the jelly too. The fear against grapes grows into apprehension of anything even associated with grapes. Grape juice? Must be bad. Wine? Forget it. The color purple? Grape apologists are known to follow this color.
> 
> ...


Now that is extremist!!!


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

I'm way more nervous about the homegrown terrorism than foreign..


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I'm way more nervous about the homegrown terrorism than foreign..




x10000000



By the way, good job all. Despite differences this has been quite the respectful discussion.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I'm way more nervous about the homegrown terrorism than foreign..


Very true.  We need to be concerned about both. No denying.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> x10000000
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, good job all. Despite differences this has been quite the respectful discussion.


He did call me a Tea Party Member.


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> He did call me a Tea Party Member.



We are going to race down Candyland this year. You win, I get a "Don't tread on me" tat. I win, you get a "Lizzy 2020" tat.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> He did call me a Tea Party Member.



Im sorry if that offended you in some way...


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Im sorry if that offended you in some way...


Because you made an assumption. And I am not one.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Because you made an assumption. And I am not one.



I get it...
again - I apologize... not sure what else I can do..


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Tin said:


> We are going to race down Candyland this year. You win, I get a "Don't tread on me" tat. I win, you get a "Lizzy 2020" tat.


OMG, I hope that does not happen.  Nails on a chalkboard.  Commander in Coat Sweater!!!!!!!!


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## steamboat1 (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I'm way more nervous about the homegrown terrorism than foreign..


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

There is something common to all these people and I can't seem to put my finger it.  JK.


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## Not Sure (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> There is something common to all these people and I can't seem to put my finger it.  JK.



They ate bad grapes ?


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## ctenidae (Nov 18, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> They ate bad grapes ?



They don't drink wine?


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

ctenidae said:


> They don't drink wine?


Carpets


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Carpets



He's referring the the way Muslims pray on carpets while facing Mecca.


I have some sweet prayer rugs I bought in Dubai and Kashmir.

My brother got a bunch from a Souk in Saudi Arabia when he was there with the Military..  
nice stuff...  Awesome artwork..  
Islam forbids images of people so the geometric designs are like next level shti...


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> He's referring the the way Muslims pray on carpets while facing Mecca.
> 
> 
> I have some sweet prayer rugs I bought in Dubai and Kashmir.
> ...


It was a joke.


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

At first I thought you were talking about lesbians...


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> At first I thought you were talking about lesbians...


That would have been Rug


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## ctenidae (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> That would have been Rug



Munching

Wait, this isn't the word association thread?


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

I always thought it was carpet muncher...


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I always thought it was carpet muncher...


Nope rug muncher in my book. You must hang out with some really hairy women.


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## ctenidae (Nov 18, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Nope rug muncher in my book. You must hang out with some really hairy women.



Drummers. What can you do?


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 18, 2015)

ctenidae said:


> Drummers. What can you do?



This is still a joke right?


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## wtcobb (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> This is still a joke right?



How do you get a drummer off your porch?






Pay him for the pizza.


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## JimG. (Nov 18, 2015)

Impressive...still going.

Nice job.


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## ctenidae (Nov 18, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> This is still a joke right?



Always. You know me, find one thing that works, and keep going with it. I am saving "dirty hippy" and "free-heeling weirdo" for later on, though.


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## Greg (Nov 18, 2015)

Heading to Paris next month for work. A guy that was supposed to go with me backed out. I figure it's probably one of the safest European cities right now...


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 18, 2015)

“You have to care about yourself; you have to believe your life is precious. What you’ve done, you’ve done. We evade it by moving forward, with a code to never do it again — to make up for it. To still accept what we were. To accept everyone. To protect everyone, and in doing that, to protect yourself. To create peace.”

- Eastman


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## deadheadskier (Nov 18, 2015)

So, if Bodhi from Point Break and Ron Paul had a baby, it might be this guy and his perspective.  NSFW language


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## bigbog (Nov 18, 2015)

I've got to bow out of this thread...am working on my BP...and anything concerning Washington's Mideast foreign policy begins to tip my system in the wrong direction....


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## Funky_Catskills (Nov 19, 2015)

ctenidae said:


> Always. You know me, find one thing that works, and keep going with it. I am saving "dirty hippy" and "free-heeling weirdo" for later on, though.


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## Nick (Nov 19, 2015)

It's crazy as I was just in Paris back in September for work, just 2 months ago. 

Such a shitty thing.


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## JimG. (Nov 19, 2015)

It is significant that we who are discussing and reading this thread have shown that we can do so in a civil and non-aggressive manner. 

I feel good about that.


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## wtcobb (Nov 20, 2015)

JimG. said:


> It is significant that we who are discussing and reading this thread have shown that we can do so in a civil and non-aggressive manner.
> 
> I feel good about that.



Likewise. Far more civil than media discussions.

For a (very) thorough explanation of the process for screening and admitting refugees:
https://www.facebook.com/BryanScottHicks/posts/1187326084630475?fref=nf

As discussed in the comments on this post, the proposed changes in no way alter the existing process, only increase the number of people allowed to enter this process.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 7, 2015)

http://www.tracintelligence.com

Very smart anti terrorist people and organizations from military background started this company to help stop killing of us citizens.

The person running thus company is was in poilce field and short intelligence in military when be served did a lot for his country and now started this company to hell stop things like Paris and any terrorism related from happening again.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 10, 2015)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidfirester


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