# Big snowmaking upgrade at Wildcat



## SIKSKIER (Jul 17, 2014)

Wildcat Mountain to Undergo Largest Snowmaking Upgrade in Ski Area’s History.
The snowmaking system at Wildcat Mountain is about to get a major overhaul thanks to a $2 million capital improvement project that will include over nine miles of new snowmaking pipe, more than 150 new high output/high efficiency snow guns and other state-of-the-art facilities as part of a total infrastructure revitalization. 
more...
http://www.skiwildcat.com/press-room.html?key=5581


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## Masskier (Jul 17, 2014)

Good News


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## dlague (Jul 17, 2014)

After last year that is definitely good news.   Gotta watch out for those frozen pipes!


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## Savemeasammy (Jul 17, 2014)

I hope this makes them an early season player.  


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## xwhaler (Jul 17, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> I hope this makes them an early season player.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


+1 if they could get a T2B route using the HSQ that would really be nice and likely would steal some market share from K/SR


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## AdironRider (Jul 17, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> +1 if they could get a T2B route using the HSQ that would really be nice and likely would steal some market share from K/SR



Doubtful, but you are going to see a vast improvement mid-season and late season most likely.


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## timm (Jul 17, 2014)

Too bad I'm getting a season pass elsewhere this year...


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## deadheadskier (Jul 17, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> Doubtful, but you are going to see a vast improvement mid-season and late season most likely.



It could be lip service, but when the upgrades were announced during the season, the GM said part of the goal was to try and be the first area to open in NH each year.  I doubt they'll be going for October like SR and K, but if they can consistently open the first week or so of November with Lynx top to bottom, that would be the best early season terrain in the east IMO.


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## AdironRider (Jul 17, 2014)

We're on the same page, my comment was more in reference to being the next SR or Kmart in the terms of opening early. 

Bretton Woods would give them a run, but it would be way better terrain at Wildcat.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 17, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> It could be lip service, but when the upgrades were announced during the season, the GM said part of the goal was to try and be the first area to open in NH each year.  I doubt they'll be going for October like SR and K, but if they can consistently open the first week or so of November with Lynx top to bottom, that would be the best early season terrain in the east IMO.



If they wanted to open as early as Killington they easily could. Base elevation of 2,000 ft and the notch can definitely help limit crappy early season weather. They are always around late in the season without even trying. They could easily do early season without much effort.


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## yeggous (Jul 17, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> If they wanted to open as early as Killington they easily could. Base elevation of 2,000 ft and the notch can definitely help limit crappy early season weather. They are always around late in the season without even trying. They could easily do early season without much effort.



They are also further north. The GM says they want to be an early and late season player. It's likely the want to compete with nearby Sunday River and Bretton Woods, not Killington. Those areas both gun top-to-bottom ASAP whereas Killington takes it's sweet time.


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## Brad J (Jul 17, 2014)

I will believe it when I see it. the other mountain has a good system,they just refuse to use it.


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## ss20 (Jul 17, 2014)

Brad J said:


> I will believe it when I see it. the other mountain has a good system,they just refuse to use it.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 17, 2014)

believe he is referring to Attitash


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## doublediamond (Jul 18, 2014)

Attitash has a lot of old flanged pipe, so for most trails they can't pump to a lot of pressure.


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## AdironRider (Jul 18, 2014)

doublediamond said:


> Attitash has a lot of old flanged pipe, so for most trails they can't pump to a lot of pressure.



I was going to say, does anyone really consider Attitash a behemouth for snowmaking. 

Crotched is impressive, but they are like one trail pod at Attitash or Wildcat.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 18, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> I was going to say, does anyone really consider Attitash a behemouth for snowmaking.
> 
> Crotched is impressive, but they are like one trail pod at Attitash or Wildcat.



They can really pump it out when they want to. Which is usually only before Christmas and February vacation weeks.


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## JimG. (Jul 18, 2014)

Wildcat is my favorite NH mountain, partly because of it's proximity to Mt. Washington. 

A lot of good steep terrain, a lot of fun on a powder day.


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## snoseek (Jul 19, 2014)

I've been pretty quick to point out the obvious flaws at Wildcat over the past couple years I'll admit. 

This however is great news and will make a HUGE difference....so glad to see this happen even though I don't ski much back east. Fantastic mountain!


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## yeggous (Jul 19, 2014)

Attitash has decent capacity from their ASC days. They do a decent job eventually burning the mountain, but they start making snow very late.

Most of the money being spent at Wildcat this season is for new pipe. They bought new compressors last year which provided them with enough power to blow top to bottom for the first time. Unfortunately the higher pressure wreaked havoc on their ancient pipes.

Looking forward Wildcat's next problem will be water supply, and that will be very difficult to solve.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 19, 2014)

I wonder if dredging the pond deeper is an option and how much more water capacity they could realize by doing so.  

One thing Wildcat has going for it is it's great snow retention.  If they start early as they say they will, there will be somewhat ample time for the pond to recharge as the season goes on.  Blow Lynx then Polecat to start the season off.  Follow it with Catapult and a few trails off the Bobcat chair.  As the season gets rolling, I think the most important thing for them is to keep enough water in reserve to be able to frequently resurface Middle Wildcat and the section of Middle Lynx under the Tomcat.  Those seem to be the real problem areas that turn into boiler plate almost daily.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 20, 2014)

yeggous said:


> Attitash has decent capacity from their ASC days. They do a decent job eventually burning the mountain, but they start making snow very late.
> 
> Most of the money being spent at Wildcat this season is for new pipe. They bought new compressors last year which provided them with enough power to blow top to bottom for the first time. Unfortunately the higher pressure wreaked havoc on their ancient pipes.
> 
> ...



Supply is not a huge issue. It's storage.


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## mbedle (Jul 20, 2014)

Are they limited on their withdrawal from the river? 



yeggous said:


> Attitash has decent capacity from their ASC days. They do a decent job eventually burning the mountain, but they start making snow very late.
> 
> Most of the money being spent at Wildcat this season is for new pipe. They bought new compressors last year which provided them with enough power to blow top to bottom for the first time. Unfortunately the higher pressure wreaked havoc on their ancient pipes.
> 
> ...


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## thetrailboss (Jul 21, 2014)

Good news.


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## yeggous (Jul 21, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Are they limited on their withdrawal from the river?



I would not call Thompson Brook a river. It's a healthy source of water this time of the year, but it freezes solid in winter. If it's so cold that your snowmaking pipes flash freeze solid, then the brook is also not flowing. There is a reason that Wildcat is famous for its brook skiing. One of Wildcat's biggest problems is the temperature of its water supply.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 21, 2014)

It amazes me that Wildcat investing $2 million in snow making upgrades is big news. Stowe is investing $2 million in snow making upgrades this summer & they don't even mention it in their blogs. If an employee didn't tell me about the investment no one here would even know, including myself.

I do hope it works out for Wildcat after the snow making disaster they experienced last year.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 21, 2014)

$2M is big news when you talk scale of the area and what they've done historically.  Wildcat is about half the size of Stowe in terrain and maybe 10% the size of Stowe in terms of the skiing revenue they generate.   They are investing about as much money as they brought in last season in total revenue.  That's why it's big news for them. 

$2M today at Stowe isn't a big deal, but it would've been big news 20 years ago when they invested very little in snowmaking and relied heavily on natural.  My first winter living in Stowe (95-96) they probably made maybe 25% as much snow as they do today.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 21, 2014)

I'm not disagreeing with you DHS but I do find it ironic. Last year it was big news when Okemo (an area similar in size & revenue to Stowe) invested only $1 million in snow making upgrades. Same thing at K with their $2 million investment in snow making last year. Of course it was big news at Stowe with them investing over $8 million in snow making between last season & the season before. This year with only a $2 million investment at Stowe they don't even mention it.


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## Puck it (Jul 21, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> $2M is big news when you talk scale of the area and what they've done historically. Wildcat is about half the size of Stowe in terrain and maybe 10% the size of Stowe in terms of the skiing revenue they generate. They are investing about as much money as they brought in last season in total revenue. That's why it's big news for them.
> 
> $2M today at Stowe isn't a big deal, but it would've been big news 20 years ago when they invested very little in snowmaking and relied heavily on natural. My first winter living in Stowe (95-96) they probably made maybe 25% as much snow as they do today.



Big news because their snowmaking has always been sucky.


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## MadMadWorld (Jul 21, 2014)

yeggous said:


> I would not call Thompson Brook a river. It's a healthy source of water this time of the year, but it freezes solid in winter. If it's so cold that your snowmaking pipes flash freeze solid, then the brook is also not flowing. There is a reason that Wildcat is famous for its brook skiing. One of Wildcat's biggest problems is the temperature of its water supply.



Thompson Brook has a more important role come winter time.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 22, 2014)

Doesn't Wildcat draw from the Peabody River (what runs behind their base lodge) to fill the pond and not Thompson's brook?  Peabody is probably equally as cold as Thompson. 

Either way, I have a hard time buying the water source is too cold argument.  Maybe the water storage is too cold because the pond is shallow?  

Stowe draws from the Little River.  That water is cold as hell and I'd be willing to bet that average winter temperatures at Stowe's base are colder than those at Wildcat.  Yet, Stowe makes a crap load of snow without issue.  

Which brings me back to my former question regarding dredging the pond.  If they did so, wouldn't it both increase the capacity and provide a higher water temperature if they were pumping from the bottom of the pond where there's some insulation from the surface air?


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## mbedle (Jul 22, 2014)

I can't see how water temperature is an issue with snow making. Typically, the colder it is the better snowmaking will be. Given an early season temp average around 28 and water in the pound at a low of 34, it does seem that flash freezing would be an issue. Later in the season, maybe it is, but how much snow are they typically making in January and February.


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## yeggous (Jul 22, 2014)

mbedle said:


> I can't see how water temperature is an issue with snow making. Typically, the colder it is the better snowmaking will be. Given an early season temp average around 28 and water in the pound at a low of 34, it does seem that flash freezing would be an issue. Later in the season, maybe it is, but how much snow are they typically making in January and February.



You must be from the Mid-Atlantic.

28 degrees is a beautiful spring day at Wildcat. The wind is just as important as the temperature. The "wind chill" effect is just as real on water pipes and ponds as it is on your skin.

When a cold front comes through, it also kicks up the wind creating a double whammy. We are easily talking about sub-zero wind chills during cold air outbreaks at Wildcat in November. This is why they were able to flash-freeze the water pipe last year.


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## yeggous (Jul 22, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Doesn't Wildcat draw from the Peabody River (what runs behind their base lodge) to fill the pond and not Thompson's brook?  Peabody is probably equally as cold as Thompson.
> 
> Either way, I have a hard time buying the water source is too cold argument.  Maybe the water storage is too cold because the pond is shallow?
> 
> ...



My understanding is that they draw from both. I don't know about the depth or feasibility of dredging the pond. I do know that the management is aware of this option as they just did this at Attitash.

I'm not sure if the base temperatures are colder at Wildcat or Stowe. They both are roughly the same elevation and latitude. The big difference is the wind speed. As I just mentioned in my previous reply, the wind chill effect applies to pipes and ponds too.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 22, 2014)

Wildcat probably has the edge in terms of being windier, but not by much.  The wind can really whip through the notch at Stowe.  Water temp just seems like a weird excuse to me.  Tremblant is another cold as hell ski area and they make a ton of snow too.  Sugarloaf would be another.


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## mbedle (Jul 22, 2014)

I sticking by my guns on this one. First of all, wind chill effects can only reduce an object to the actual air temperature. So, if its 30 degrees out and the wind chill is -20 degrees, the coldest the pipe can get is 30 degrees. That does not take into account the radiant heat coming from the ground surface. I will say that sub zero temperatures do happen on Mt Washington in November, but last year it was only for 7 days. Given the elevation difference between wildcat, I could guess there were less at Wildcat. There were significantly more sub zero days in December at Mt Washington. I would assume that wildcat has experienced this flash freezing in the past and would monitor air temperatures to make sure they don't pump when this is going to occur. And, as DHS stated, there are many other ski resorts worldwide that have to deal with extreme cold weather.


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## St. Bear (Jul 22, 2014)

I would say that comparing the snowmaking infrastructure of Wildcat to Tremblant is a stretch, to say the least.

I don't know much about snowmaking, but if freezing is a big issue at certain locations, I'm sure there are ways to insure against it, such as insulating the pipe, in order to minimize the chances of damage.  I would expect a place like Tremblant to have the top of the line infrastructure to have these measures in place.  Not so much at Wildcat.


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## mbedle (Jul 22, 2014)

I am guessing that the issue is not in the trunk supply lines, but maybe at the actual guns and secondary feeder lines. It would make sense that with a smaller volume of water moving through a even smaller diameter of pipe, flash freezing could occur at extremely low temps. More so, given how much less flow is going through the secondary feeder lines. Lets look at it this way, good news they are investing some money into it and hopefully this problem will go away this season.


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## SIKSKIER (Jul 23, 2014)

Windchill sminchill.Windchill does not effect inanimate objects.Windchill factor is the "feel like" factor of heat loss from exposed skin.The windchill factor is always lower than the actual temperature.

What is Wind Chill Temperature? 
It is the temperature it "feels like" outside and is based on the rate of heat loss from exposed skin caused by the effects of wind and cold. As the wind increases, the body is cooled at a faster rate causing the skin temperature to drop. Wind Chill does not impact inanimate objects like car radiators and exposed water pipes, because these objects cannot cool below the actual air temperature. 
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/windchill/wind-chill-brochure.pdf


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## Puck it (Jul 23, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Windchill sminchill.Windchill does not effect inanimate objects.Windchill factor is the "feel like" factor of heat loss from exposed skin.The windchill factor is always lower than the actual temperature.
> 
> What is Wind Chill Temperature?
> It is the temperature it "feels like" outside and is based on the rate of heat loss from exposed skin caused by the effects of wind and cold. As the wind increases, the body is cooled at a faster rate causing the skin temperature to drop. Wind Chill does not impact inanimate objects like car radiators and exposed water pipes, because these objects cannot cool below the actual air temperature.
> http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/windchill/wind-chill-brochure.pdf




I know I did not have the heart to break it to him.  He was on a roll.  Just like when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor.


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## mbedle (Jul 23, 2014)

Maybe we should stop using the words "wind chill" in this case. It would be better to describe this potential issue as "accelerated heat loss due to increased air flow". An yes, that does affect inanimate objects. Hence the reason why a radiator in your car works. 

This statement "Wind Chill does not impact inanimate objects like car radiators and exposed water pipes, because these objects cannot cool below the actual air temperature." is correct, in that wind chill doesn't apply to object that can't feel temperature. However, "because these objects cannot cool below the actual air temperature" is off a little. Neither can humans be cooled to a temperature below what the actual air temperature is.


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## SIKSKIER (Jul 24, 2014)

This makes sense.Well thought out and reasonable response.


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## dlague (Jul 24, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Neither can humans be cooled to a temperature below what the actual air temperature is.



Nor would you want to be unless your dead or the current temp is around 98.6.


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## yeggous (Jul 24, 2014)

dlague said:


> Nor would you want to be unless your dead or the current temp is around 98.6.



Just to play devil's advocate, yes they can if they are moist (like humans). Any skier should be aware of the concept of wet bulb temperature.


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## yeggous (Sep 26, 2014)

Photo tour on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152730743572359.1073741840.7959777358&type=1


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## mbedle (Sep 26, 2014)

Go Health & Safety! I had to, its my job... lol


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## Dickc (Sep 26, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Maybe we should stop using the words "wind chill" in this case. It would be better to describe this potential issue as "accelerated heat loss due to increased air flow". An yes, that does affect inanimate objects. Hence the reason why a radiator in your car works.
> 
> This statement "Wind Chill does not impact inanimate objects like car radiators and exposed water pipes, because these objects cannot cool below the actual air temperature." is correct, in that wind chill doesn't apply to object that can't feel temperature. However, "because these objects cannot cool below the actual air temperature" is off a little. Neither can humans be cooled to a temperature below what the actual air temperature is.



Wind chill CAN affect inanimate objects.  Ever try washing the road salt off your vehicle on a 36 degree windy day?  As the water evaporates, due to the wind it will freeze as it is getting chilled by the wind elevated evaporation rate.  Now if the water is INSIDE a pipe and the wind is outside the pipe, it can only help carry away radiated heat faster, but never cool it below the air temp.  Bash away!


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 26, 2014)

so where did the gondola cars come from?  I thought Wildcat only had chairs?


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## yeggous (Sep 26, 2014)

jimmywilson69 said:


> so where did the gondola cars come from?  I thought Wildcat only had chairs?



They run the lift as a gondola in the summer and chairs in the winter. The gondola would be slower to unload and more wind prone.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 26, 2014)

Interesting...


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## yeggous (Sep 26, 2014)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Interesting...



Wildcat is a real skier's mountain. They don't bother with "resort" comforts or frills. The goal is skiing and lots of it. From their website:

Question: "Why do you only use the gondola cabins in the summer, why not use them in the winter too?"

Answer: An often asked question, the answer is that operating the Wildcat Express Summit Lift as an enclosed gondola in the winter would be inefficient for our uphill capacity and make the lift more susceptible to wind holds. In the winter, when converted back to the more traditional four-person chairs, the Wildcat Express operates at twice the speed and is arguably one of New Hampshire's fastest high-speed summit lifts and is capable of reaching the summit from the base in just over 6 minutes, as opposed to the slower approximate 12-13 minute ride time in the summer. It works in the summer better because we operate the lift slower and people aren't also having to deal with skis, poles, & snowboards. Also, for skiers and snowboarders, taking off skis or snowboard to load every single time would be a bit of a hassle. The other reason that we don't use gondolas in the winter is because the greater amount of surface area exposed and susceptible to the winter weather would expose our lift to wind holds. Something to consider when you are located directly across the street from Mt. Washington, home to the second highest wind speeds ever recorded in the world.


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## Edd (Sep 26, 2014)

yeggous said:


> Photo tour on Facebook:
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152730743572359.1073741840.7959777358&type=1



I was looking at some tour photos of the new snowmaking setup on Twitter this morning. Very exciting changes. Hopefully they can avoid any serious start-up issues. Wildcat needs a good year.


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## slatham (Sep 26, 2014)

Great to see the upgrades, especially after what I read and heard about last winter.


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## doublediamond (Sep 26, 2014)

Was only the Skiers-Right side replaced, or did they replace all the pipes?


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## yeggous (Sep 27, 2014)

doublediamond said:


> Was only the Skiers-Right side replaced, or did they replace all the pipes?



They save they replaced something like 8 miles of pipe, but I'm not sure how to interpret that. It's about 2 miles top to bottom, and there is both a water and air pipe on every trail. So... that math means only two trails saw new pipes? Lynx and Polecat were the two shown in the photo tour.


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## yeggous (Sep 30, 2014)

The latest from Management:

Since the beginning of May, our Mountain Operations team, with the help of Peak Resorts, has been on a mission to improve Wildcat’s snowmaking system.  This process began in the fall of 2013 and if the construction schedule holds, we will be moving water through 55,000 feet of new pipe by next week! 

A day in the life of a Wildcat snowmaker is enough to make most skiers that much more thankful for the snow under their feet.  Hard work, cold conditions and long shifts often make a snowmaker dream of relaxing summer days, but not this summer.  That same crew that works 24 hours a day in the winter, has been tasked with installing the largest snowmaking upgrade that Wildcat Mountain has ever seen!  55,000 feet (over 10 miles) of new pipe, hundreds of new guns and a new booster pump house are the milestones that highlight the 2 million dollar snowmaking improvement that has been going on this summer. 

In the eyes of a Wildcat Snowmaker, working this hard all summer will certainly pay off for them this winter.  Trying to keep the old, antiquated, run down system up and going last year was painfully difficult.  But just as they always do, the crew worked through it and with their hard work, and the help of Mother Nature, Wildcat was (for the 8th year in a row) the last resort to close in New Hampshire.  With a new state of the art pump house, reliable pipe and the most efficient guns on the market, Wildcat snowmakers will certainly have an easier job while seeing the quality and quantity of snow they produce sky rocket!  Wildcat Snowmakers are excited, have taken ownership of and are proud of the work that has happened here this summer.

As we move forward, we also know that “the proof is in the pudding”.  Our goal with this snowmaking project is to:

1.    Replace much of the pipe that could simply not hold water at pressure due to its age
2.    Make sure that we can reliably get water to the summit, at a pressure and flow rate that we can safely and effectively make snow with
3.    Enhance the quality and quantity of the snow we make
4.    Allow us to open with a quality product as early as possible
5.    Make snow as efficiently as possible

What it all comes down to is that we are all passionate about skiing and snowboarding!  We’re making snow, not secret weapons, so there is little I will not share with you.  From the “50,000 foot view” Wildcat Mountain is planning on making snow as soon as Mother Nature allows and will open as soon as we have a quality product.  As of meow, our early season snowmaking plan is to make snow on Lynx top to bottom.

Fall is here, the autumn colors are changing, the night time temps are dropping, I’m having a hard time giving up waterskiing and we are on track to finishing up the largest snowmaking upgrade that Wildcat Mountain has ever seen.

To view an album of photos taken during a recent tour of the snowmaking project, click here.

Please stay tuned as I promise to keep you informed as we move forward! - BH

Brian Heon, General Manager, Wildcat Mountain


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## xwhaler (Sep 30, 2014)

^^ Like. T2B on Lynx as soon as Mother Nature allows sounds very promising. As mentioned before they could really grab a lot of early season market share from K/SR if they offer 2k' of vertical off a HSQ. That would be quite impressive if they pull it off.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 30, 2014)

Nice words but still doesn't address which specific trails received pipe.  Anywhere else on the hill receive some love other than Lynx and Polecat?


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## yeggous (Sep 30, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Nice words but still doesn't address which specific trails received pipe.  Anywhere else on the hill receive some love other than Lynx and Polecat?



Great question. Some purely speculative math:

Top-to-bottom is about 2 miles. There is a water and air pipe, so 4 miles per route. Lynx and Polecat alone could account for all the pipe.


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 30, 2014)

Lynx would be a much better offering than what Killington serves up.  Wildcat would definitely earn my early season business (assuming comparable pricing...  I would love to see some 2fers like what Killington offers).


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## Puck it (Sep 30, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Lynx would be a much better offering than what Killington serves up. Wildcat would definitely earn my early season business (assuming comparable pricing... I would love to see some 2fers like what Killington offers).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And Sunday River.  I would love a NH resort to win the first to open year after year!!!!!!


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## yeggous (Sep 30, 2014)

Puck it said:


> And Sunday River.  I would love a NH resort to win the first to open year after year!!!!!!



It's not clear to me that the really want or will be able to be the absolute first to open. It seems they are going to be top-to-bottom or bust. The GM mentions want to open with a quality product, which is not something that you hear from Sunday River or Killington early season. K-Mart and SR will open with whatever they have, which is also appreciated because I am grateful to have that much.


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## Smellytele (Sep 30, 2014)

I love Wildcat and would love to see them in the early game. If they get some good stuff open for Thanksgiving weekend I would hit them up instead of SR.


Remember today is the last day to get the $35 weekday tix.


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## Newpylong (Sep 30, 2014)

yeggous said:


> It's not clear to me that the really want or will be able to be the absolute first to open. It seems they are going to be top-to-bottom or bust. The GM mentions want to open with a quality product, which is not something that you hear from Sunday River or Killington early season. K-Mart and SR will open with whatever they have, which is also appreciated because I am grateful to have that much.



They have to be T2B, no more Catapult chair!


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## machski (Sep 30, 2014)

I hope they get their ducks lined up if that is the plan.  Back in the mid 2000's, they got a big (like 2 feet plus) late October dump and decided to open up.  Great snow, the very last 200' vert of so got a little thin but it was killer up high.  The problem was, the summit quad had not been recertified due to the chang-over from the cabins and so they could only open off Tomcat.  Loon opened last year top of gondi to bottom, but I would be leary of calling the lower stuff quality.  Of course, Wildcat has 1000' plus high base than Loon.  Still would be shocked, doesn't seem like being in the 1st to open is in Peak's game.


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## drjeff (Sep 30, 2014)

machski said:


> I hope they get their ducks lined up if that is the plan.  Back in the mid 2000's, they got a big (like 2 feet plus) late October dump and decided to open up.  Great snow, the very last 200' vert of so got a little thin but it was killer up high.  The problem was, the summit quad had not been recertified due to the chang-over from the cabins and so they could only open off Tomcat.  Loon opened last year top of gondi to bottom, but I would be leary of calling the lower stuff quality.  Of course, Wildcat has 1000' plus high base than Loon. Still would be shocked, doesn't seem like being in the 1st to open is in Peak's game.



Gotta remember, the 1st year that Peak bought Mount Snow and installed 200+ fan guns, they were the 1st to open in VT - they got a window and went for it, and also benefited a bit from it being the 1st of the "mismanaged years" by Powdr at Killington.

Peak, realizing all the goodwill they lost last year with the snowmaking problems at Wildcat may very well be more aggressive with trying to get Wildcat open EARLY.  The limiting factor though may be the fact that even with all the new pipes, pumps and snowguns, Wildcat still has a relatively limited overall water pumping capacity, which when you're trying to get a trail the length of Lynx open T2B, may present a "rapid response" challenge when compared to some of the other early season players.  We'll see soon!


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 30, 2014)

Puck it said:


> And Sunday River.  I would love a NH resort to win the first to open year after year!!!!!!



I left SR out intentionally.  For me, they are too far away for early season consideration - unless, for some reason, they were the only player in the game...


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## deadheadskier (Sep 30, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> They have to be T2B, no more Catapult chair!



Well they could open off the Tomcat chair or Bobcat for that matter.  Unlike SR, K, Loon, Waterville, etc., that start their seasons by opening terrain with upper mountain lifts, the only reason to start blowing from the top at Wildcat is if they think they're going to preserve snow at the higher elevation.  If they were looking to open as quick as possible to start the season, a trail off the Bobcat lift would make the most sense, then tie in to the top with Upper Catapult > Middle Wildcat.


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## Tin (Oct 1, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Lynx would be a much better offering than what Killington serves up.  Wildcat would definitely earn my early season business (assuming comparable pricing...  I would love to see some 2fers like what Killington offers).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



But wouldn't it be all groomed? At least K has Downdraft and Mousetrap open within 2 weeks of opening despite being short I look forward to those first bumps of the year.


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 1, 2014)

Tin said:


> But wouldn't it be all groomed? At least K has Downdraft and Mousetrap open within 2 weeks of opening despite being short I look forward to those first bumps of the year.



It's been a long time since I can remember them letting Lynx bump up. They used to allow the top part to bump up. I don't ski it as much as I used to so someone probably knows better than me.


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## Savemeasammy (Oct 1, 2014)

Tin said:


> But wouldn't it be all groomed? At least K has Downdraft and Mousetrap open within 2 weeks of opening despite being short I look forward to those first bumps of the year.



Downdraft > Lynx. 

I'm comparing Lynx to Killington's first TTB route through north ridge down snowdon.  

I guess what's really important is who has what open at the same time...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yeggous (Oct 1, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> It's been a long time since I can remember them letting Lynx bump up. They used to allow the top part to bump up. I don't ski it as much as I used to so someone probably knows better than me.



Lynx is almost entirely groomed. The only exception is the side of the trail under the Tomcat Triple. As far as trails go, it is a high-end blue and very fun for high speed cruising. There are some fun banking turns on that trail. With the quad going you can pound out some serious vertical.


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## Newpylong (Oct 1, 2014)

I rather ski Lynx any day over the other major player's early season T2B offerings.

A new (used?) lift up Lift Lion starting adjacent to where Catapult used to start would pretty much give them the nastiest early season around.


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## Smellytele (Oct 1, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> I rather ski Lynx any day over the other major player's early season T2B offerings.
> 
> A new (used?) lift up Lift Lion starting adjacent to where Catapult used to start would pretty much give them the nastiest early season around.



One of the triples pats peak bought from Ascutney would do the trick.


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## Edd (Oct 1, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> It's been a long time since I can remember them letting Lynx bump up. They used to allow the top part to bump up. I don't ski it as much as I used to so someone probably knows better than me.



I've caught upper Lynx bumped up plenty of times.


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## Quietman (Oct 1, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> One of the triples pats peak bought from Ascutney would do the trick.



We're talking about Wildcat here, not K or SR that have a bed base.  Adding a lift that would only be used for a short period every year just doesn't make sense.  The lower mountain lifts are good insurance for the windiest days, while a light weight triple up top would be a fun toy for the wind to toss around.  Spending 2 million on snowmaking is a large investment for Peaks considering the lower number of skier days at Wildcat.  If it helps to bring more skiers, maybe they can do more in the future.


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## Smellytele (Oct 1, 2014)

Quietman said:


> We're talking about Wildcat here, not K or SR that have a bed base.  Adding a lift that would only be used for a short period every year just doesn't make sense.  The lower mountain lifts are good insurance for the windiest days, while a light weight triple up top would be a fun toy for the wind to toss around.  Spending 2 million on snowmaking is a large investment for Peaks considering the lower number of skier days at Wildcat.  If it helps to bring more skiers, maybe they can do more in the future.


There used to be a lift there in the past and I wished they had left it there.


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## Newpylong (Oct 3, 2014)

Yeah, by removing the Gondola and putting the Quad in where it was instead of putting it where Catapult was.


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## MikeTrainor (Oct 3, 2014)

I wonder what the logic was with that. I think there were a few years after the express went in they would still operate the old gondola in the summer. A lift (catapult) like on this map from bobcat up would be great late season too when the bottom is mush.


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 3, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> Yeah, by removing the Gondola and putting the Quad in where it was instead of putting it where Catapult was.



Wouldn't make much sense for early/late season.You would have to run 2 chairlifts anyways to get to higher elevation. That's the advantage Killington has....1 lift/1 trail. I loved skiing laps on the lift lines and then riding the Catapult lift back up but it doesn't offer any advantage for early/late.

If they could figure out how to have a midstation upload on a HSQ they would be golden. However, I don't think the insurance company would go for that.


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## Smellytele (Oct 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Wouldn't make much sense for early/late season.You would have to run 2 chairlifts anyways to get to higher elevation. That's the advantage Killington has....1 lift/1 trail. I loved skiing laps on the lift lines and then riding the Catapult lift back up but it doesn't offer any advantage for early/late.



um doesn't K have to run the Gondola as well?


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 3, 2014)

AlpineZone News said:


> BRETTON WOODS, New Hampshire — Bretton Woods Mountain Resort has given skiers and riders much to be thankful for this Thanksgiving weekend. A foot and a half of new snow fell on a record 5400 skiers over the four-day holiday, a 19% increase over the past record set in 2002.
> 
> In addition to the welcome snowfall that enabled the Resort to open more terrain than any other in New Hampshire, many new Bode ONE season pass holders came to enjoy the uncrowded slopes. Powder hounds discovered trails opened on entirely natural snow, while the fans of Bretton Woods’ renowned grooming found a solid base of manmade snow on their favorite trails. The Bode ONE pass, named after the Resort’s director of skiing and World Cup Champion Bode Miller, offers unrestricted skiing and riding starting at $399.
> 
> ...



For Superstar? No


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## Smellytele (Oct 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> For Superstar? No



Superstar is not their early offering


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 3, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Superstar is not their early offering



Sorry I didn't realize I wrote early as well as late.


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## Smellytele (Oct 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Sorry I didn't realize I wrote early as well as late.



You have been granted forgiveness :lol:


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## MikeTrainor (Oct 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Wouldn't make much sense for early/late season.You would have to run 2 chairlifts anyways to get to higher elevation. That's the advantage Killington has....1 lift/1 trail. I loved skiing laps on the lift lines and then riding the Catapult lift back up but it doesn't offer any advantage for early/late.
> 
> If they could figure out how to have a midstation upload on a HSQ they would be golden. However, I don't think the insurance company would go for that.



Alta has a HSQ with a mid station that you can load. I am not sure how many chairs would be available on a weekend but I was there mid week in December and was able to do so.

They also have a high speed triple.


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 3, 2014)

MikeTrainor said:


> Alta has a HSQ with a mid station that you can load. I am not sure how many chairs would be available on a weekend but I was there mid week in December and was able to do so.
> 
> They also have a high speed triple.



Really seems like it would be very hard to go on since it can slow down like it does at the top and bottom.


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## MikeTrainor (Oct 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Really seems like it would be very hard to go on since it can slow down like it does at the top and bottom.



I slows down the same as the top and bottom. I am not exactly sure how it works maybe two separate line? A top and bottom half?


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 3, 2014)

MikeTrainor said:


> I slows down the same as the top and bottom. I am not exactly sure how it works maybe two separate line? A top and bottom half?



Does the midstation look similar to the top and bottom of HSQs? Maybe I can find a pic


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## MikeTrainor (Oct 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Does the midstation look similar to the top and bottom of HSQs? Maybe I can find a pic



Yes here is a pic of it.


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 3, 2014)

MikeTrainor said:


> Yes here is a pic of it.



This would work great for Wildcat! Skiers can just upload from where the old Catapult chair loaded.


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## DoublePlanker (Oct 3, 2014)

A terrible idea for Wildcat.  The top to bottom runs and fast hsq is awesome.

And btw, wildcat is much better than Killingcrowds.  Love the cat.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 3, 2014)

I think it would be killer.  Such a lift could probably extend the season a month at Wildcat.


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## Smellytele (Oct 4, 2014)

Early/late season have the cabins on the line and put in a lift where/near the catapult was.


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 4, 2014)

I would put up with an extra 30 second ride if it meant it would extend their season by a lot


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## deadheadskier (Oct 4, 2014)

Nice to dream.  They could blow the snot out of Lift Lion and easily be last to close in the East with that set up.  It probably wouldn't draw crowds like Killington, but I bet it would do pretty well.  You already have a bunch people in the area skiing Tucks.  If conditions in Tucks aren't going to be good for the day, they could just head across the street and still do some skiing.


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## Newpylong (Oct 5, 2014)

The setup at Hood on Palmer would make more sense for Wildcat. Its a straight midsection where the chairs detach and go back on the rope, no separate lifts.


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## SIKSKIER (Oct 6, 2014)

Looks like they don't use that mid station anymore?


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## Smellytele (Oct 6, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Looks like they don't use that mid station anymore?



We had this discussion in another thread where it was noted that they still did and dropped the chairs/cable down. If you look on the last pole there is another set of wheels down lower. It is only used certain times of the year.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 6, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Looks like they don't use that mid station anymore?



It's a seasonal summer load, they slack and drop the cable down. See the other set of rollers on the tower?


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## Puck it (Oct 6, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Looks like they don't use that mid station anymore?



In the summer they do.  That is the load station for glacier skiing. They put the haul rope back on it.


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## St. Bear (Oct 6, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Looks like they don't use that mid station anymore?



I think I heard somwhere that they slack the line down and use it seasonally, but let me double check and get back to you.


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## Tin (Oct 6, 2014)

They might have better snowmaking weather towards the end of this month than K.


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## Newpylong (Oct 6, 2014)

Yes, the midstation is only used in the summer - we used it every season after the old double came out. It's not used in the winter because the snow up there swallows up the mid station and there really is no business need. Half the time Palmer is closed in the winter, too much snow. Notice the extra support pylons on the towers.

Summer (the snowfields end at the midstation): http://www.mthood.com/images/mhssc/palmer snowfield August 21, 2007.JPG

Winter: http://www.mthood.com/images/mhssc/PALMER from bottom looking up March 7, 2007.JPG

Spring: http://www.mthood.com/images/mhssc/buried towers resized with graphic.jpg


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## yeggous (Oct 9, 2014)




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## deadheadskier (Oct 9, 2014)

Excellent.  There's the answer to my question.

Nice to see the new guns for Avenger at Attitash.  Hopefully they use them earlier in the season.  IMO, that trail should be a top priority to get open for Christmas week.  Lots of acreage to absorb skier traffic.


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## Newpylong (Oct 9, 2014)

Did the mountain produce those or you? Either way, awesome. Can't ask for much more clarity than that.


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## yeggous (Oct 9, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> Did the mountain produce those or you? Either way, awesome. Can't ask for much more clarity than that.



These came from an email to passholders that was sent this morning.


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## SIKSKIER (Oct 9, 2014)

Thanks guys.I see it clearly in this photo.


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## Gforce (Oct 17, 2014)

I totally agree. Avenger is a screamer, nice to see the new snow making capability there. I remember the first day that trail opened last season a week before Xmas, Avenger was pure velvet. You can ski that trail all morning. 





deadheadskier said:


> Excellent.  There's the answer to my question.
> 
> Nice to see the new guns for Avenger at Attitash.  Hopefully they use them earlier in the season.  IMO, that trail should be a top priority to get open for Christmas week.  Lots of acreage to absorb skier traffic.


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## canobie#1 (Oct 18, 2014)

Finally!!! New guns on Avenger!  That's the best trail at the place, I hope it's up early this season.


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## bigbog (Oct 18, 2014)

Nice to hear about the new guns @the Cat.....


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## SIKSKIER (Oct 22, 2014)

*Here is an update*

*What's happening @ Wildcat*

*Wildcat Puts Largest Snowmaking Upgrade In Ski Area History To Initial Test Making Snow Sunday Night, October 19*


Wildcat Mountain has completed the largest snowmaking upgrade in its history installing over 10 miles of new snowmaking water and air pipe, acquiring 227 new high output/high efficiency snow guns and completing the construction of a new, state-of-the-art, mid-mountain, booster pump house. Over $2 million dollars has been invested to dramatically improve the snowmaking efficiency and output of Wildcat's snowmaking system.

During the 2013/14 season, Wildcat worked with some of the industry's leading snowmaking equipment manufacturers in what is believed to be the largest testing and demonstration project ever conducted at any mountain in the East. Following successful tests in a variety of weather conditions, delivery of new snow guns from HKD and Snow Logic have been arriving this summer and fall. In addition to the original 131 gun investment of almost one half a million dollars, Peak Resorts has recently announced an expansion of the project. An additional $330,000 was approved to acquire 96 more high efficiency units. The total investment in new guns now totals more than $800,000. Trails that will directly benefit from the snowmaking improvement project include Polecat, Lynx, Upper Catapult, Middle Wildcat, Wild Kitten, and Bobcat.

As part of the original project, a new $350,000 booster pump house building facility was constructed and completed, including the installation of new diesel motors, booster pumps, diesel filtration system, heat, electricity and 3,600 gallon fuel storage capacity. Excavation of a functioning work road to and the area around the top of Middle Lynx was required to accommodate demolition of the old pump house and allow access for cement trucks to build a new foundation complete with custom grated cement floor.

From the early planning stage, the goal of the project has been to modernize and improve how efficiently the snowmaking system operates, which was a factor when deciding which technology to purchase. "Today's snowmaking technology is so impressive and we estimate Wildcat will burn 50,000 gallons less diesel fuel annually as a result of the upgrade," said Peak Resorts' Northeast Project Manager, Brendan Ryan. "The completed project will ultimately lead to using less power and burning less fuel while producing more, high quality snow and the new pump house will ensure snowmaking reliability on the key upper mountain trails."


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