# Road Bike Buying Advice



## BackLoafRiver (Apr 17, 2012)

Hey all,

So, to supplement my MTB I decided I'd like to get into road riding. Not at any competitive level but enough so I could do something like the Trek Across Maine or the Dempsy Challenge. It would be great to ride to work. Also, everyone says that the weight comes off like nothing when you ride road.

I know that demoing is key and here is what I have found so far:

2011 Specialized Allez Comp (left over from last season) - has Sram Apex stuff
2012 Trek 1.2
2012 Trek 1.5
2012 Trek 2.1 - Priciest option so far.

I'd love to keep it around $1k or slightly under if possible. 

Any thoughts are appreciated. There are 4 good shops in a 20 mile radius that I would check out.


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## MR. evil (Apr 17, 2012)

I would also look around for used options. Road bikes don't really get beat on like MTB and you can get a pretty nice used road bike for under a grand. I purchased a used Spesh Rouxbai (full carbon frame / fork) with a mix of Shimmano 105 and Ultegra for $800 last spring. 

Something I can't stress enough is make sure you get a proper fitting bike and then pay extra to have it professionally setup for you. This is much more important on a road bike vs MTB because on the road bike you spend almost all of your time in the saddle. If its not setup right or too big / too small you will possibly get repetitive stress injuries.


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 17, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> I would also look around for used options. Road bikes don't really get beat on like MTB and you can get a pretty nice used road bike for under a grand. I purchased a used Spesh Rouxbai (full carbon frame / fork) with a mix of Shimmano 105 and Ultegra for $800 last spring.
> 
> Something I can't stress enough is make sure you get a proper fitting bike and then pay extra to have it professionally setup for you. This is much more important on a road bike vs MTB because on the road bike you spend almost all of your time in the saddle. If its not setup right or too big / too small you will possibly get repetitive stress injuries.



Did you go through your shop or private sale?

My former boss is a pretty competitive road rider. He swears by Back Bay Cycles in Portland to set up the bike.  Fairly certain I will head there once I have the bike picked out. (I need to call them to see if they have a selection of used stuff as well)


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## riverc0il (Apr 17, 2012)

Wow, I can't believe what Trek charges. Just looked up the price and Trek 1.2 is MSRP at almost a thousand dollars for Sora 9 speed. W-T-F.

First thing I would do to narrow it down is decide on your crank: triple, compact, or standard. That will rule out some of your considerations right there. Everyone has different preferences and it is hard to know which you'd prefer without having tried them. Definitely no shame in riding a triple. Compact is a good compromise but has a major PITA in the shifting since you're dealing with a large to small jump of 16 teeth instead of the standard 14.

I'd strongly recommend Tiagra/105 shifters or better if you get Shimano components. My partner has Sora on her road bike, ick. Not recommended. SRAM is pretty much all the same on the front shifting, so anything there is fine. If you can try both systems before buying, that will be good so you can pick which one you prefer.

If you want to ride to work or are doing any rides that require you to pack something, you might want to consider a bike that you can add panniers or whatnot to. 

Not sure how MTB sizing works but with road bikes it is all about the top tube (and I'd argue head tube length). Some bikes have "compact geometry" with sloping top tubes. So two bikes with the same seat post length might fit radically different. So go by fit, not the size number.

If you are really confident in sizing and don't care about supporting the LBS, there are a lot of alternatives available online with better components at cheaper prices. But if you are at all unsure on sizing, better to try them out at the LBS and get the right fit.

If you can find used bikes in your area, try to go that route. The major bike companies all have crap at $1k or below and not much better just over $1k. But you might be able to find a nice 3 year old $2k bike used for half its original price.

Don't forget all the extras in factoring in your cost. Pedals, shoes, etc.

The weight definitely comes off big time! Just takes a few rides a week with progressively longer distances. Can't wait to get back into shape this summer.


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 17, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> First thing I would do to narrow it down is decide on your crank: triple, compact, or standard.



Ok...so, there's a great point/ question there. Never having done ANY road riding, I don't know the differences between them. 



riverc0il said:


> I'd strongly recommend Tiagra/105 shifters or better if you get Shimano components.



I was hoping to get at least Tiagra on the bike. I guess i hadn't noticed the sora components on the 1.2  Kinda rules that out.  Thoughts on the Sram Apex stuff? (on my MTB I run XT so I am unfamiliar with their stuff)



riverc0il said:


> If you want to ride to work or are doing any rides that require you to pack something, you might want to consider a bike that you can add panniers or whatnot to.



I can leave work stuff there...I dont carry a laptop or anything to and from.  Just the essentials.

Its funny...in trek sizing, I am a 52, tops.  I am going to check the sizing on the Specialized.

This is the leftover I am looking at:

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?sid=11Allez


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## riverc0il (Apr 18, 2012)

Regarding the crank, part of it can be determined by the amount of hills you plan on riding and your fitness level. Lots of hill, you might want to consider a triple or compact. Not many hills, a standard 53/39 works fine with the right cassette. Triple gives you more one tooth jump gearing options whereas a compact spreads you out a little more. 

That Allez looks nice especially if you can get a deal on last year's model. I don't particularly care for the gearing with 52/36 chainrings and an 11-28t cassette. It has good low end but that is really spread out. But if its your first road bike, you won't know the difference. 

If you can try both the SRAM and Shimano, that would be worth your effort. Both systems are fine, it is individual preference. From what I understand, the Apex shifting is practically similar to the higher end options, just not as light weight or refined or whatever. So Apex is fine. SRAM doesn't have junky lower end road groups to avoid like Shimano does.


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## Nick (Apr 18, 2012)

I've got an old 1985 Nishiki in the basement I can sell you :uzi:


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 18, 2012)

*Follow Up #1*

Went to 4 shops today to get on some bikes.

3 out of 4 had nothing in my size and could only special order.

Shop 4 had the Allez Comp that I was looking at. As it turns out, it wasn't my size either. :uzi:  But he still set it up so I could get a feel for the bike.

A 54 wasn't grossly large, just big enough so I felt awkward in the cockpit.

Luckily, he had a 52 Tarmac leftover in the basement.  Same basic bike as the Allez comp, SRAM Apex drivetrain, same gear ratio...just a carbon frame.  What a ride!  Fast, nimble and fun.  Also....about $500 out of my price range.  :angry:

The search continues. 

One other note, the SRAM shifters are the double click setup which I thought would bung me all up but are much more intuitive than I thought. I didn't hate it and, truth be told, kinda liked it.


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## marcski (Apr 18, 2012)

BackLoafRiver said:


> Went to 4 shops today to get on some bikes.
> 
> 3 out of 4 had nothing in my size and could only special order.
> 
> ...




IMHO, wait, save and spend the $500 and get that full carbon frame.


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## riverc0il (Apr 18, 2012)

If the 52 Tarmac fit you well, then a 52 Allez Comp should be just as good. The geo looks almost the same. The Allez Comp has an extra cm of head tube which if anything is a little more relaxed but nothing to drastic. That is bizarre that three shops didn't have anything in your size during prime buying season.


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## riverc0il (Apr 18, 2012)

marcski said:


> IMHO, wait, save and spend the $500 and get that full carbon frame.


Or he could put that money towards nice wheels. :beer:

I don't see any reason for someone buying their first road bike to need to splurge on carbon. Ride quality can be improved often times by getting wider tires and lowering tire pressure accordingly. 

I make this point despite currently having an AL frame and already knowing I am going to upgrade to carbon in the next year or two. 8) But when I first bought the bike, I had no idea I was going to take to it quite the way I did.


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 18, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> If the 52 Tarmac fit you well, then a 52 Allez Comp should be just as good. The geo looks almost the same. The Allez Comp has an extra cm of head tube which if anything is a little more relaxed but nothing to drastic. That is bizarre that three shops didn't have anything in your size during prime buying season.



Yeah, thought so too.  54 a plenty but nothing in 52.

The price difference between a new Allez and the Tarmac was only $350.


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## riverc0il (Apr 18, 2012)

Oops, I was looking at the wrong year's geo. Looks like they are actually essentially the same exact geo, just one is carbon and one is AL.


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## marcski (Apr 18, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Or he could put that money towards nice wheels. :beer:
> 
> I don't see any reason for someone buying their first road bike to need to splurge on carbon. Ride quality can be improved often times by getting wider tires and lowering tire pressure accordingly.
> 
> I make this point despite currently having an AL frame and already knowing I am going to upgrade to carbon in the next year or two. 8) But when I first bought the bike, I had no idea I was going to take to it quite the way I did.



Go back to your bike buying thread, Riv....I said the same thing to you then too!  :beer:.


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## riverc0il (Apr 18, 2012)

marcski said:


> Go back to your bike buying thread, Riv....I said the same thing to you then too!  :beer:.




I stand behind the idea that for a first bike, you don't need to go crazy. Besides, now I can have TWO bikes! N+1 style. I can retain the AL for a bad weather, winter trainer, high gearing for massive hills (think Kanc Pass with a 30/28 bail option), etc. and have the nice carbon for everyday riding.

:beer:

But for $350, why not, lol. 

I was pretty restricted on funds but then and my budget was much lower. I ended up with an $800 AL 105 bike. I didn't know enough to run the used market so the jump to carbon was too much for my budget. My budget is a little bigger now.


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## MR. evil (Apr 18, 2012)

Keep in mind that when buying a Spesh, Trek, Cannondale, etc you are not only paying for a bike but also the name on the down tube. You will be able to stretch your money further if you look at some of the bike company's that are not house hold names such as Jamis and Giant to name a couple.


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 18, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Keep in mind that when buying a Spesh, Trek, Cannondale, etc you are not only paying for a bike but also the name on the down tube. You will be able to stretch your money further if you look at some of the bike company's that are not house hold names such as Jamis and Giant to name a couple.



Good points. I did a little research and came up with another option or two:

1) Giant Defy 1 - approx $1350 retail and a local shop has one in my size.(M)

2) Jamis Ventura Race - same price point but it only comes in a 51 or 54.


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## marcski (Apr 18, 2012)

I love my Giant TCR. It is about 6 yrs old 10K+ miles going strong.  Upgraded my wheels 2 summers ago. Other than that, I've only needed to replace parts as they've worn.  (Brake calipers, btm bracket, crank, of course a bunch of cassettes and chains).

I think the Defy is the "relaxed" geometry version.  Find a bike that is comfortable size wise.  Each Co. sizes differently so you really have to sit/ride on each bicycle. IMHO, if it is similarly spec'd as far as components and price, the name on the tubes makes little difference these days. Almost every company sponsers a pro race team.  It's all trickle down technology from that.


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## riverc0il (Apr 19, 2012)

marcski said:


> I think the Defy is the "relaxed" geometry version.  Find a bike that is comfortable size wise.  Each Co. sizes differently so you really have to sit/ride on each bicycle.


The fit can even be different within each brand. The fit between race oriented, race influenced, and relaxed/compact bikes is going to be noticeable even within the same "size".

BLR -- If you find you like the fit of certain bikes more than other bikes, note the effective top tube length and head tube length and use the manufacturer's web sites to spec out the geometry for sizing. Seat tube length is meaningless when sizing out bikes even those most bike manufacturers still use it to label bike sizes.


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## MR. evil (Apr 19, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> The fit can even be different within each brand. The fit between race oriented, race influenced, and relaxed/compact bikes is going to be noticeable even within the same "size".
> 
> BLR -- If you find you like the fit of certain bikes more than other bikes, note the effective top tube length and head tube length and use the manufacturer's web sites to spec out the geometry for sizing. Seat tube length is meaningless when sizing out bikes even those most bike manufacturers still use it to label bike sizes.



Many of the upper end MTB makers are stating to use Reach and Stack for sizing bikes as its a more meaning full way to size a bike vs TT and ST lengths. I wonder if road bikes will soon follow


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## riverc0il (Apr 19, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Many of the upper end MTB makers are stating to use Reach and Stack for sizing bikes as its a more meaning full way to size a bike vs TT and ST lengths. I wonder if road bikes will soon follow


I'm seeing reach and stack in more and more geo tables lately. Still not as widely adopted as it should be. I think TT and HT measurements are sufficient for getting a good size. You can always fine tune with moving the seat, flipping the stem, or getting a longer or shorter stem, as well as adjusting spacers.


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## drjeff (Apr 20, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Keep in mind that when buying a Spesh, Trek, Cannondale, etc you are not only paying for a bike but also the name on the down tube. You will be able to stretch your money further if you look at some of the bike company's that are not house hold names such as Jamis and Giant to name a couple.



LOVE my Jamis Xenith Endura 2 that my LBS got me into last June


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 24, 2012)

*Update*

Went to a shop in Portland today to test ride the Defy.

Because I am only 5'7, I fit nicely in between the small and the medium.  I took the small out first and rode it around for a bit.  Had to adjust the seat once to get the proper leg extension but after that, the bike fit well.  It's looking like the small Defy 1 is going to be the winner.  I want to check out a Trek 2.1 just to see how it rides but, really, at almost $200 more for similar components, it seems silly.

Just a quick fit question, I noticed when I was riding around, my knees came up a bit higher than I am used to. (or, maybe because of body position on the MTB I never notice it)  Is this normal? (they don't come up to my chest or anything that extreme) Does this make sense?


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## riverc0il (Apr 25, 2012)

If you are buying from a shop, they should make sure the bike is setup correctly for you (pretty much is the biggest reason to buy from a shop). Your contact with the bike is pedals, seat, and handlebars so those should be the three areas of potential adjustment: seat up or down, seat forward or back, or stem flipped or longer/shorter/different angle. They should be able to look at you on the bike and at least get things close. 

You are going to be more stretched out (upper body) on a road bike even with relaxed geometry compared to a MTB. But your legs shouldn't be smashing into your chest. Have the shop take a look at your fit if you buy and they'll make sure everything is good (or they should if they are a good shop).


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## BackLoafRiver (Apr 25, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> If you are buying from a shop, they should make sure the bike is setup correctly for you (pretty much is the biggest reason to buy from a shop). Your contact with the bike is pedals, seat, and handlebars so those should be the three areas of potential adjustment: seat up or down, seat forward or back, or stem flipped or longer/shorter/different angle. They should be able to look at you on the bike and at least get things close.



Yeah, the tech looked at me, adjusted the seat up, and decided against swapping the stem around. He thought that if we had gone up a size, we would want to switch it. We didn't fuss with the seat forward or back positioning.


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## andyzee (Apr 25, 2012)

My recommendations; if you plan to ride 50 or less miles go for the aluminum, light and stiff, the stiffness allows for efficient transfer of power, however on rides of 50+ miles, the stiffness of aluminum allows for the pain of each bump and hole you hit to be transferred to your body. For 50+ miles, I recommend Chromoly (not as stiff or light as aluminum). Or Carbon, love my carbon frame bike, light, stiff, but absorbs the road bumps and holes, setback, expensive.


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## ts01 (Apr 25, 2012)

2 points: 



Nick said:


> I've got an old 1985 Nishiki in the basement I can sell you :uzi:


If it fits, depending on which Nishiki, you could do lots worse.  I commute 26 miles r/t on a 1984 Nishiki Prestige with double-butted Tange tubing that I've been riding since  I rolled it out of the bikeshop in 1984. None of the original components but it's a great frame (now converted to fixed gear).   

Unrelated to the Nishiki love: Obviously I'm fond of steel frames but my road and tri bikes have all been more recent vintage aluminum and there's no need to rule it out as I think it's the best value for money in the current bike market.  The so-called harshness of alu frames can easily be mellowed out with carbon forks (most modern alu bikes have carbon fork), and running slightly wider tires (700x25), filled to around 100-110 psi instead of 120.  Carbon frames are obviously all over now but you can get a better spec'd bik with alu not carbon with no significant weight penalty.  And I've seen enough "catastrophic failure" pics of carbon bikes that I'd want a new high-end frame in carbon, would be leery of used and/or cheap.


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## drjeff (Apr 27, 2012)

andyzee said:


> My recommendations; if you plan to ride 50 or less miles go for the aluminum, light and stiff, the stiffness allows for efficient transfer of power, however on rides of 50+ miles, the stiffness of aluminum allows for the pain of each bump and hole you hit to be transferred to your body. For 50+ miles, I recommend Chromoly (not as stiff or light as aluminum). Or Carbon, love my carbon frame bike, light, stiff, but absorbs the road bumps and holes, setback, expensive.



The one thing about carbon frame bikes and the ride/performance, and this comes from not just personal experience, but also from talking with and observing dozens of members of my local bike club (roadies, mountain bikers and cyclocross enthusiasts) is that once you go carbon, you're not going back to steel/aluminum


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## mlctvt (Apr 27, 2012)

drjeff said:


> The one thing about carbon frame bikes and the ride/performance, and this comes from not just personal experience, but also from talking with and observing dozens of members of my local bike club (roadies, mountain bikers and cyclocross enthusiasts) is that once you go carbon, you're not going back to steel/aluminum



I agree with this 100%.
 It's the reason why Carbon is selected by virtually all professional cyclists. When was the last time you saw a pro on aluminum or steel? 1995 or maybe even earlier.


A friend just bought a full carbon Scott road bike with Shimano 105 for only $1500. It was new but a leftover, year or two old. There are deals out there if you look around.


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## andyzee (Apr 27, 2012)

drjeff said:


> The one thing about carbon frame bikes and the ride/performance, and this comes from not just personal experience, but also from talking with and observing dozens of members of my local bike club (roadies, mountain bikers and cyclocross enthusiasts) is that once you go carbon, you're not going back to steel/aluminum



Yep, for sure. When I went from aluminum to carbon, I couldn't believe the difference.


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## riverc0il (Apr 27, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> It's the reason why Carbon is selected by virtually all professional cyclists. When was the last time you saw a pro on aluminum or steel?


The last time that happened was probably the last time a sponsor offered a free top end AL bike to a pro. 

And if "what the pros use" was the only factor in decision making, we'd all have cassettes starting at 11 and 53/39 double chainrings.

Just sayin'


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## marcski (Apr 27, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> The last time that happened was probably the last time a sponsor offered a free top end AL bike to a pro.
> 
> And if "what the pros use" was the only factor in decision making, we'd all have cassettes starting at 11 and 53/39 double chainrings.
> 
> Just sayin'



You already know my position on this, Riv.  

But, it's not only road anymore, carbon mountain bikes are becoming pretty standard on the circuits as well and my LBS carries a good number of them from different companies.


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## mlctvt (Apr 30, 2012)

I can't comprehend why someone would ever "choose" an alumimum bike over a carbon bike if the price was no different. As Dr Jeff indicated  "once you try it you'd never go back." 
but price usually is much more for carbon. I still ride 2 aluminum bikes although they do have carbon forks,an aluminum cyclocross bike and our tandem. I'd love it if both of these were carbon but carbon tandem frames start at about $6K and go to well over $10k. The "average" fully equiped carbon tandem is about $10K. Price is the only reason I still have aluminum bikes!  If I did it again I would have waited on the cyclocross bike and saved up the extra $500 for a full carbon frame. I can't stand riding that bike on any ride over 50 miles, it's just so punishing compared to carbon.

I don't think I'll ever buy another bike that isn't a full carbon frame.


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## BackLoafRiver (May 5, 2012)

*Update*

Pulled the trigger this morning.  Went with the slightly more expensive Tarmac Elite. After riding the Defy more I decided I liked the fit better on the Tarmac.  The guys at the LBS were awesome! They threw in some tubes, the cage, and a few other things.  Nicest guys at Center Street Cycle in Brunswick. The owner is salt of the earth and the tech who helped me, a kid named Jay, is the bee's knees.  

Took it out for the inaugural ride.  18 miles in 1:10. Nothing overly hill-y.  Beautiful, scenic ride. I can tell that I am going to really enjoy it.


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## marcski (May 5, 2012)

Nice looking ride, congrats and enjoy!


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## mlctvt (May 6, 2012)

Great bike. 
I'm sure you'll be glad you upgraded.


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## andyzee (May 6, 2012)

That is sweet, thought you said you don't want to spend. :lol: I'm sure it will serve you well. can't beat Carbon Fiber, OK, maybe titanium. Word of advice, be careful with the frame, CF doesn't take kindly to good hits on the side. Good luck, nice choice!


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## BackLoafRiver (May 8, 2012)

andyzee said:


> That is sweet, thought you said you don't want to spend. :lol: I'm sure it will serve you well. can't beat Carbon Fiber, OK, maybe titanium. Word of advice, be careful with the frame, CF doesn't take kindly to good hits on the side. Good luck, nice choice!



I didn't want to shell out the extra $$ but I had some come in I wasn't planning on. Turns out, it was well worth the investment.

I haven't really had longer than an hour and a half to ride. Yesterday was my longest by far, 19.4 miles.  I was hoping to hit 20.  I am just a hair shy of 50 miles which doesn't seem like much (since most seem to ride 50 in a single ride) but I am pretty ok with.  When I get longer to get out I will shoot for 30.  My next ride I am shooting for over 20.


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