# Add Cannon to the opening list



## SIKSKIER (Nov 23, 2011)

Looks like a Friday 11/25 opening.Actually pretty surprized Cannon will be running when many others are not.Last Sunday there was no snow anywhere,even on top of Lafayette.Well they did make a little Friday in a few areas including the top of the Peabody Base Lodge roof:lol:

Cannon has picked up an early Thanksgiving treat with 6-10" of new snow to curb your appetite!  We've seen 6-10 inches so far today with drifts well above a foot high and more snow is expected throughout the day.  We're still firing away with snowmaking on Middle Cannon, Gremlin & around the base area...add all the new snow on top of that and we're set to open Friday 11/25 for the 2011/2012 season!  Keep checking back for all the latest updates as we approach opening day.

.


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## Puck it (Nov 23, 2011)

I can't believe the openings.  I was sying Monday no way Cannon was going for it. Now, there will be tracks down other runs if you catch my drift. 

Any intel from someone close by?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 23, 2011)

Very nice!  Let's hope for another great season at Cannon!


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## Johnskiismore (Nov 23, 2011)

See you there Friday morning!!


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## threecy (Nov 23, 2011)

I haven't been through Franconia since Sunday night, but prior to then they had made snow off the HSQ only - nothing on the upper mountain, nothing on Zoomer.  I haven't been on the hill since Saturday, but it didn't look like they had made much in way of piles due to marginal temperatures.

Waterville, on the other hand, took a different approach, and started on the High Country, then worked down to Northside.  High Country is pushed out and ready to go with good base depths and Northside has enough snow to go right now (still in piles/guns going).

Waterville also ran some guns in the base area (park/J-Bar) at night and off returns, but the difference in yield due to elevational temperature difference was pretty striking.

If the medium term forecast is accurate, Waterville should come out of this fine, while Cannon may struggle.


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## riverc0il (Nov 23, 2011)

threecy said:


> If the medium term forecast is accurate, Waterville should come out of this fine, while Cannon may struggle.


Makes you wonder why Cannon doesn't pay wages for an additional half dozen workers to run the tram for uploading and use the Cannonball. Almost sounds like threecy thinks using tax payer money to pay for all that extra wages and electricity to run the tram is a good thing since Waterville has such a good strategy.

:dunce:

Cannon has always kicked things off on the Peabody Quad since it went in. They offer a FAR superior product compared to High Country at Waterville. I don't think I'd ski High Country at Waterville if it was free. Maybe if you paid me, but it would have to be at least enough money to cover gas and a meal at the mountain. I suspect with a good base down, Cannon will weather the warm up just fine and be offering a better product that WV all the while.


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## threecy (Nov 23, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Makes you wonder why Cannon doesn't pay wages for an additional half dozen workers to run the tram for uploading and use the Cannonball. Almost sounds like threecy thinks using tax payer money to pay for all that extra wages and electricity to run the tram is a good thing since Waterville has such a good strategy.



There is a big difference between making snow to open for Thanksgiving weekend and making snow that will last for the season.

There's also a big difference in amount of snow produced at marginal temperatures at low elevation vs. snow produced in more favorable temperatures 1,000 to 1,500 feet higher in elevation.  A significantly larger amount of snow (better quality too) will be produced at the same cost per hour.

From what I could see, High Country will be open for the season with pipeline to treeline coverage, multiple feet deep.  The guns up there have been bumped elsewhere.

They haven't announced it yet, but I suspect Tippecanoe may open for the weekend.  They may not get it wall to wall like High Country, but it also looks like it should be well endowed by tomorrow morning.


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## bigbob (Nov 24, 2011)

Almost sounds to me that Threecy is on Watervilles payroll!;-)


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## Smellytele (Nov 24, 2011)

bigbob said:


> Almost sounds to me that Threecy is on Watervilles payroll!;-)



Don't poke the bear


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## Puck it (Nov 24, 2011)

High Country would be tolerable with a poma and a nice bump section.


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## skiberg (Nov 24, 2011)

See you Friday AM., Whoo hoo.


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## mishka (Nov 24, 2011)

I will be at Cannon Friday too


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 25, 2011)

Bummer for me as I had to work today.Cannon has basically 1 run from the top of the detach for aout 1400 vertical.They will run the Eagle lift also.Wallyworld is just running the High country at about 400 vertical which is nothing I would go there for.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 25, 2011)

SIKSKIER said:


> Bummer for me as I had to work today.Cannon has basically 1 run from the top of the detach for aout 1400 vertical.They will run the Eagle lift also.Wallyworld is just running the High country at about 400 vertical which is nothing I would go there for.



Fair enough, but as a NH taxpayer aren't you furious that Cannon didn't go the more fiscally conservative route like Waterville has and make snow at elevation and offer downloading on the Tram?  

Threecy knows the infrastructure of both resorts very well and knows the upcoming forecast.  I'm sure he could give us a dollar figure on how much money Cannon would save us taxpayers if they operated with a similar early season strategy to Waterville.


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Fair enough, but as a NH taxpayer aren't you furious that Cannon didn't go the more fiscally conservative route like Waterville has and make snow at elevation and offer downloading on the Tram?
> 
> Threecy knows the infrastructure of both resorts very well and knows the upcoming forecast.  I'm sure he could give us a dollar figure on how much money Cannon would save us taxpayers if they operated with a similar early season strategy to Waterville.



I am a NH tax payer but I am also a skier and agree more on the point that the terrain is more interesting at the top then off the detachable and the snow will last longer up there. 

On the other side of the coin:
Is the Tram running for sightseers? If not the cost of running it maybe more than running the quad. Also most of Cannon's services are unfortunately at Peabody.


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## Puck it (Nov 25, 2011)

They could upload and download on the quad. They could blow Upper Cannon since it returns near the quad terminus. Problem solved.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 25, 2011)

They have done the tram download in years past but only maybe 2 I can remember.That's no longer in their plan.I'm sure it cost a lot less to run just the detach than to staff 2 lifts.I'm fine with making snow on the lower mountain.Actually today ironically it is way warmer on the top of the mountain.Just talked to a friend that opted to go to Loon instead today and he told me it was near 50 at the top and 24 at the base first thing.So much for preserving snow near the top I guess.


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## riverc0il (Nov 25, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> Is the Tram running for sightseers? If not the cost of running it maybe more than running the quad. Also most of Cannon's services are unfortunately at Peabody.


No, tram is not running.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 25, 2011)

Puck it said:


> They could upload and download on the quad. They could blow Upper Cannon since it returns near the quad terminus. Problem solved.


 
+ 1.  Another option.


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## Northernflight (Nov 25, 2011)

> High Country would be tolerable with a poma and a nice bump section.



Or a tree or two. Its not bad  just to get out skiing or when there is fresh powder but I agree Cannon would be the better pick given the open terrain.


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## threecy (Nov 30, 2011)




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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 30, 2011)

threecy said:


>



Looks like they took a chance and got burned. 

Saw an article today, Bangor, Maine had higher temps than parts of southern Florida at 8am this morning.


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## Gnarcissaro (Nov 30, 2011)

Weren't the only ones who had to close, today.


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## Puck it (Nov 30, 2011)

Was there any erosion?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


>



with the weather we've had it's probably a safe bet that if they had made snow on the upper mountain instead, most of that would be gone too.

I hope you are equally as critical of the 10 odd other mountains open over the Holiday weekend who lost most of the snow they had made.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


>


 


			
				Waterville Valley said:
			
		

> *Today's Notes*
> 
> 3:39pm, Tuesday 29th November 2011
> *UPDATE* Unfortunately Mother Nature has delivered unseasonably warm temperatures and rain this week, forcing a temporary closing of the mountain.


 
http://www.waterville.com/ski-ride/snow-report.html


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## Cannonball (Dec 1, 2011)

Was Threecy being critical?  He didn't even say anything.  I'm happy to see that pic...it saves me the trip to check it out myself.  Early season snowmaking is a crapshoot.  You have to do it to build base and compete for early season dollars.  But if it warms up you loose it.  All part of doing business.


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## threecy (Dec 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> with the weather we've had it's probably a safe bet that if they had made snow on the upper mountain instead, most of that would be gone too.



Take another look at the photo...you'll note the amount of manmade snow increases with the elevation in the photo.





It was about 44 degrees at the base at sunset.






Just about 28 degrees at the base sunrise.  Based upon regional readings, it's probably 23 degrees at the summit.



I haven't been on Waterville in 48 hours, but their upper mountain snow was holding up much better than what was visible in their (tiny) lower mountain webcam.


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## riverc0il (Dec 1, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> Was Threecy being critical?


Yes, yes he was.

I'd like to also see photos of Jay, Stowe, Bretton, etc. and all the other ski areas that opened last week with snow down to their base that won't open this coming weekend without additional snow making. Wouldn't mind seeing the top of Waterville as well. I also wonder if Loon lost Grand Junction.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 1, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> Was Threecy being critical?  He didn't even say anything.  I'm happy to see that pic...it saves me the trip to check it out myself.  Early season snowmaking is a crapshoot.  You have to do it to build base and compete for early season dollars.  But if it warms up you loose it.  All part of doing business.



The saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.  Threecy's posting of the photo was to back up his call that he thought that Cannon's decision to blow to the base was a bad one.

Other mountains that blew to the base who have upper mountain lift set ups with downloading capability

Killington
Sugarbush
Brettonwoods
Loon
Sunday River
Sugarloaf

Not sure if Okemo blew down to their base this past weekend.  Jay, Stowe and Attitash don't have upper mountain only lifts, but they blew to the base to try and open.  Waterville, the place he was applauding for making snow up high only, still had to close due to the weather.


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## Riverskier (Dec 1, 2011)

I was at SR on Monday and the snow seemed to have held as well, if not better, on the bottom of the mountain than the top. It was warmer at the summit much of last weekend. Granted Sunday River's open terrain is approximately 1000-2600 feet, much lower than some other areas, so take it for what it's worth.


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## threecy (Dec 1, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> I was at SR on Monday and the snow seemed to have held as well, if not better, on the bottom of the mountain than the top. It was warmer at the summit much of last weekend. Granted Sunday River's open terrain is approximately 1000-2600 feet, much lower than some other areas, so take it for what it's worth.



Sunday is also further north and has a much more modern snowmaking system.  During the previous week, there were quite a few days in which the weather was much different in the Maine border area than in Franconia Notch.


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## riverc0il (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> During the previous week, there were quite a few days in which the weather was much different in the Maine border area than in Franconia Notch.


Like the reports from SR, Cannon also had an inversion for much of last weekend and temperatures at the summit were much warmer than at the base, a noticeable difference just in 700 vertical feet up from the base.


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## Riverskier (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> Sunday is also further north and has a much more modern snowmaking system.  During the previous week, there were quite a few days in which the weather was much different in the Maine border area than in Franconia Notch.



I get that. SR had a couple 48+ hour round the clock snow making windows in the past couple weeks that other areas didn't have. They also have one of, if the not the most, powerful snowmaking systems in the World. Those are the primary reasons they have been able to open and stay open on as much terrain as they have had. I was just poitning out that, at least at SR, there was a serious inversion for a few days and snow was actually melting quicker at the summit.


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## threecy (Dec 1, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Like the reports from SR, Cannon also had an inversion for much of last weekend and temperatures at the summit were much warmer than at the base, a noticeable difference just in 700 vertical feet up from the base.



Not during the week or so of snowmaking.  At least two of those days temperatures were marginal at the base, yet much better in the Cannon-Jackson col, and frigid at the summit.

Also one of the "inversion" days was only a cloud inversion - the temperature was not.

The photo shows just how much more snow was produced and retained as elevation increased.


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## threecy (Dec 1, 2011)

Waterville this morning:





Cannon this morning:


> Snowmaking is BACK ON! Temps are marginal down low however, so our projected reopening is still TBD and will be ASAP.


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## Black Phantom (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> Waterville this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice pics!


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## deadheadskier (Dec 1, 2011)

Waterville still had to close.......


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## thetrailboss (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> The photo shows just how much more snow was produced and retained as elevation increased.


 
It is moot though because both WV and Cannon closed and likely both will reopen at about the same time.


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## witch hobble (Dec 1, 2011)

There are shitloads of reasons to blow snow down to your base lodge, regardless of snow preservation.  How about snow promotion?  Not having a large grassy area out front and some satellite pod of skiable terrain integrates the bar, the ski shop, the lodge itself for people whose muscles are sore quickly on the first few days out and need to take a brake.  It helps get the facility up and running and feeling like a ski area.

Snow down low - marketing.

threecy's aerial shot - anti-marketing.


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## threecy (Dec 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> It is moot though because both WV and Cannon closed and likely both will reopen at about the same time.



There is a big difference between making snow to open for Thanksgiving weekend and making snow that will last for the season.  Cannon leaned toward the former, while Waterville the latter.

With the exception of High Country (which looks like it held up okay) and the base area terrain park, Waterville's snow was left in whales.  I thought they'd perhaps open Northside for last weekend, however with the way the weather went, it was wise of them to leave it in piles and preserve as much of it as possible.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> There is a big difference between making snow to open for Thanksgiving weekend and making snow that will last for the season. Cannon leaned toward the former, while Waterville the latter.
> 
> With the exception of High Country (which looks like it held up okay) and the base area terrain park, Waterville's snow was left in whales. I thought they'd perhaps open Northside for last weekend, however with the way the weather went, it was wise of them to leave it in piles and preserve as much of it as possible.


 
But you're (intentionally) missing the point because both places still closed and both had to recover.  The strategy you described still did not work.  Obviously Cannon made as much snow as they could in the timeframe that they had and I imagine that their intent was for both season start and to start to build a base.  

Let's be honest: you'd be critical of whatever Cannon did, so to even continue the discussion with you is a waste of time.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> There is a big difference between making snow to open for Thanksgiving weekend and making snow that will last for the season.  Cannon leaned toward the former, while Waterville the latter.
> 
> With the exception of High Country (which looks like it held up okay) and the base area terrain park, Waterville's snow was left in whales.  I thought they'd perhaps open Northside for last weekend, however with the way the weather went, it was wise of them to leave it in piles and preserve as much of it as possible.



......and Loon, Killington, Sunday River, Bretton Woods and Sugarbush all blew to their base for the holiday weekend despite having the ability to offer upper mountain skiing only if they so chose.

other areas such as Jay, Stowe and Attitash that don't have upper mountain capabilities blew to their base.

High Country at Waterville sucks.  I'd never spend my early season dollars to ski that over the other far better alternatives out there this past weekend.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> ......and Loon, Killington, Sunday River, Bretton Woods and Sugarbush all blew to their base for the holiday weekend despite having the ability to offer upper mountain skiing only if they so chose.


 
I don't think SB did.  I think they did their usual pre-season MO, which was blow from HG up and the result was the same: they closed.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I don't think SB did.  I think they did their usual pre-season MO, which was blow from HG up and the result was the same: they closed.



That's correct. They had downspout open from the top of super bravo to the base of heavens gate. Upper jester was open & Allyns traverse with down loading on super bravo.


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## threecy (Dec 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> But you're (intentionally) missing the point because both places still closed and both had to recover.  The strategy you described still did not work.


Waterville retained more snow.  That manmade snow is cash.

Closing during the bad weather was smart.  There's no need for either area to be open today - they'd be operating at a loss.  Waterville can open right now - Cannon cannot.



thetrailboss said:


> Obviously Cannon made as much snow as they could in the timeframe that they had


Making snow in low elevations at marginal temperatures is not 'making as much snow as they could'


Peak Resorts comes out of this whole thing looking pretty smart, financially.


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## Riverskier (Dec 1, 2011)

threecy said:


> Peak Resorts comes out of this whole thing looking pretty smart, financially.



Maybe..... I certainly don't have the answers, but SR has been very busy the last few weekends. Lots of day tickets, ski teams from all over New England training, a packed bar, etc. And while some may question this, I am convinced they sell a lot of passes based, at least in part, on having a long season. Five years and counting with this aggressive strategy, so Boyne must think it is working.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 1, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> Maybe..... I certainly don't have the answers, but SR has been very busy the last few weekends. Lots of day tickets, ski teams from all over New England training, a packed bar, etc. And while some may question this, I am convinced they sell a lot of passes based, at least in part, on having a long season. Five years and counting with this aggressive strategy, so Boyne must think it is working.


 
It matters for Boyne because when it comes time this coming spring for season pass sales folks remember their efforts and the value of their pass.  Just wait and see how many folks here get Boyne passes.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> But you're (intentionally) missing the point because both places still closed and both had to recover.  The strategy you described still did not work.  Obviously Cannon made as much snow as they could in the timeframe that they had and I imagine that their intent was for both season start and to start to build a base.
> 
> Let's be honest: you'd be critical of whatever Cannon did, so to even continue the discussion with you is a waste of time.



I call bullshit on this one (providing I am understand correctly).  Waterville left a lot of it's manmade snow untouched and in whales to use it as things got better, Cannon blew snow all the way to the bottom that has since melted away and thus pissed away a bunch of money, when instead they could have had used the snow that melted to stock pile atop the mountain.  Also, while I keep my opinion to myself in regards to public and private ownership of Cannon, I think one could understand a persons questioning of blowing snow to the bottom of Cannon when the dollars spent (and washed away) are the publics.  Not sure how one can compare SB, SR, Killington, yada yada yada to Cannon.


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## bobbutts (Dec 1, 2011)

So Cannon _should_ have done Tram to Cannonball?
Or not tried to open?

There's pros and cons to either vs. Peabody.  I don't think any option was really all that compelling or obviously superior.

And agree about High Country sucking.. I'd skip it even if I was staying at WV.


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## Cannonball (Dec 1, 2011)

=1 





threecy said:


> Waterville retained more snow.  That manmade snow is cash.
> 
> Closing during the bad weather was smart.  There's no need for either area to be open today - they'd be operating at a loss.  Waterville can open right now - Cannon cannot.
> 
> ...



Oh, now I get it....Threecy WAS been critical.  Because this doesn't make sense.  Running several lifts vs running one to access your snowmaking is a waste of money NOT "cash".  

+1 for Cannon.


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## riverc0il (Dec 1, 2011)

I skied Cannon last week. I didn't ski Waterville last week. I like how things turned out.

And let's not kid ourselves, early season leader Sunday River is not exactly wise with their snow. They blow a LOT of snow that melts. I think every season they've gone for October they have blown snow below the mid-station to the base only to have most or all of it melt _at least_ once. Why aren't you critical of Sunday River?

No need to explain... we get it already....


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## deadheadskier (Dec 2, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I skied Cannon last week. I didn't ski Waterville last week. I like how things turned out...



How many people do you estimate were there river? I don't believe you have a pass there, so you bought a ticket.  Did you ride the lift with mainly pass holders or was there day ticket customers mixed in?

One thing I can guarantee is that Waterville probably had 99% pass holders skiing on the High Camp.  Let's be realistic, only a moron would drive the same distance and purchase a day ticket to ski 350 vertical feet off the slowest lift in the country requiring downloading at Waterville over skiing 1400 vertical feet of better terrain off a High Speed Quad right from the base lodge at Cannon.  I'd love to see the sales figures for the day, but my guess is Cannon out did Waterville in dollars by $10 to $1. An even larger competitive disadvantage for Waterville would be what Loon had going on.  I bet Loon rang $30 to $1 in day skier dollars over Waterville.    

So, that begs the question, "Why did Waterville even bother at all if there was no cash to be made?"  If their operational plan was so smart, then why did they even bother blowing snow at all down the Northside with the forecast for this week?  It's certain that a fair amount of the snow left in whales still melted, so why bother?  It actually would've made more sense to blow and open the Northside over High Camp for the weekend because if priced right then maybe that might be an attractive enough skiing product to steal day ticket business from Cannon and Loon.  Northside offers twice the vertical of High Camp, a better lift, better terrain, is still above 2500 feet elevation has good exposure for snow retention and is positioned for downloading on the Quad.  




riverc0il said:


> And let's not kid ourselves, early season leader Sunday River is not exactly wise with their snow. They blow a LOT of snow that melts. I think every season they've gone for October they have blown snow below the mid-station to the base only to have most or all of it melt _at least_ once. Why aren't you critical of Sunday River?
> 
> No need to explain... we get it already....



Yup, threecy doesn't pay 50 cents a year in taxes to Sunday River.  Cannon's going for it this weekend probably cost us taxpayers 2 cents each in lost snow and operational costs.  Would it have been only a penny each had Cannon gone with an upper mountain product with downloading?  Only threecy knows......


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## riverc0il (Dec 2, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> How many people do you estimate were there river? I don't believe you have a pass there, so you bought a ticket.  Did you ride the lift with mainly pass holders or was there day ticket customers mixed in?


Cannon was absolutely jam packed (for the second year in a row on opening weekend). So packed, I called it after five runs and went and earned some turns elsewhere.


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## threecy (Dec 2, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> It is moot though because both WV and Cannon closed and likely both will reopen at about the same time.


Waterville:  





> Lower temperatures have returned! Snowmaking began last night and will continue for our REOPENING on Saturday. We will be reopening High Country, via the White Peaks Express Quad to the High Country lift.



Cannon:  





> The "other news" is that temperatures have been marginal near the base, so it doesn't look like we'll be able to put enough snow where we need it down low for skiing & riding this weekend. We're looking at mild weather through the weekend, and colder snowmaking temps early next week. So, our projected reopening is now late next week - we're shooting for Dec. 9th at this point.


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## Smellytele (Dec 2, 2011)

threecy said:


> Waterville:
> 
> Cannon:



High Country as noted SUX! I would not pay to ski it alone. I would not spend the gas to drive there to ski it.

Also with rain predicted for next week even at the top of Waterville why waste the money to open for 2 days as Cannon (3 days actually) did for Thanksgiving?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 2, 2011)

threecy said:


> Waterville:
> 
> Cannon:



Sounds like Cannon is being smart and Waterville is wasting money..........


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## riverc0il (Dec 2, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Sounds like Cannon is being smart and Waterville is wasting money..........


DHS brings up a good point... there is no way that Waterville will be profitable this weekend, therefore closing should be considered the best option going strictly by the bottom line.


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## Cannonball (Dec 2, 2011)

Threecy likes to use Sunapee as the standard to judge Cannon by.  So let's see how they've handled this....

They blasted snow like crazy in mid-November (even at the base).  They never opened at all.  It's all melted.  And now they are predicting a 12/10 opening.

What was Threecy's point again?


threecy said:


> There is a big difference between making snow to open for Thanksgiving weekend and making snow that will last for the season.
> 
> There's also a big difference in amount of snow produced at marginal temperatures at low elevation vs. snow produced in more favorable temperatures 1,000 to 1,500 feet higher in elevation.  A significantly larger amount of snow (better quality too) will be produced at the same cost per hour.



Well, the brilliantly run Sunapee made snow for neither.  At least Cannon packed the house while they were open and turned there man-made into cash.


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## threecy (Dec 2, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> Threecy likes to use Sunapee as the standard to judge Cannon by.  So let's see how they've handled this....
> 
> They blasted snow like crazy in mid-November (even at the base).  They never opened at all.  It's all melted.  And now they are predicting a 12/10 opening.
> 
> What was Threecy's point again?



Sunapee:
a) Didn't have nearly as many snowmaking ops/hours as Cannon
b) Has a much more modern, efficient, cost-effective snowmaking system than Cannon
c) Doesn't cost the state a dime when they lose money

What was your point again?


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## Smellytele (Dec 2, 2011)

threecy said:


> What was your point again?



High Country Sux!!!
Also with rain predicted for next week even at the top of Waterville why waste the money to open for 2 days as Cannon (3 days actually) did for Thanksgiving?


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## Cannonball (Dec 3, 2011)

threecy said:


> Sunapee:
> a) Didn't have nearly as many snowmaking ops/hours as Cannon
> b) Has a much more modern, efficient, cost-effective snowmaking system than Cannon
> c) Doesn't cost the state a dime when they lose money
> ...



a) Why have any snowmaking ops/hours if you're making snow for _nothing_!?  When it comes to snowmaking you have to fully commit or not bother.  Sunapee's costs and efforts were a waste.  Cannon's weren't
b) Which did _nothing_ for them.  Compared to Cannon opening and serving lots of paying customers.
c) Ok?  Neither does Waterville.  Yet you use them as comparison to Cannon.  You may not like it but Cannon _is_ state run right now.  So of course you can make your "costs the taxpayers money" point about anything and everything they do.  But that won't make it a constructive debate about management choices.  The current debate (that you started) was about how mountains choose to deploy their snowmaking capabilities.  You've been using Waterville as comparison to Cannon.  I'm using Sunapee.  They blew it....and they BLEW IT.

What was _your_ point?


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## threecy (Dec 3, 2011)

In regard to the Waterville/Cannon comparison, perhaps we should get the facts straight.  Both areas were open for 5 days, not 2 or 3 days as suggested by other posters.  A big difference, though, is that running High Country alone snowmakingwise likely costs a fraction of running the whole WV snowmaking system.  I didn't get up on the hill immediately after the rain, but from more distant photos, I could see that much of the High Country held up - they likely could have pushed it out once the temperatures dropped and skied it a day or two ago.  They also, based upon the last time I was on the hill during that thaw event, retained a decent amount of what they did on Northside by of not skiing it.  It appears they're taking the same course in advance of this next forecast.  Assuming the GM makes the final calls on snowmaking, one can see his experience at smaller areas showing - it's a different type of snowmaking strategy (make snow to last the season) at a smaller, more southern area than it tends to be up north (make snow to open).




Cannonball said:


> I'm using Sunapee.  They blew it....and they BLEW IT.



So, how many days did Sunapee pump?  You're implying they ran their system as much as Cannon did and in marginal temperatures.  Did they essentially make a week of snow, or did they run a system test (we see posts fairly frequently on AZ in the fall about 'blowing out the mice')?


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## riverc0il (Dec 3, 2011)

I'll give threecy this: if his point is that WV had a different snow making strategy than Cannon, he is correct. And I am GLAD that is the case. Cannon can't do what WV does with High Country. Upper Ravine would be their only upload opportunity. UR is twice as long as High Country and covers more vertical. You can't compare the two. 

Cannon's strategy was to get their base lodge going ASAP where they have full services and the bar. Cannon offered beginner terrain last week via Eagle Cliff. What did WV offer? Right, no beginner terrain. Cannon's strategy was to offer a very respectable 1400' via a high speed lift. WV offered High Country, a slow lift serving boring terrain that most people wouldn't ski if you paid them. 

Would Cannon have gone for it if they knew the lower mountain might all wash out? Maybe not. Your assertion is that Cannon blew just to open for the weekend and WV blew for the season. How do you know that Cannon didn't think they were blowing for the season? Even if they did blow knowing the base would melt, GOOD FOR THEM. Maybe it is one reason why Cannon is much beloved around these parts and many AZ'ers that love Cannon don't care much for WV. 

Cannonball is saying that you are using different judgment systems and criteria for Cannon and Sunapee. If you were being intellectually honest, you would say that Sunapee ALSO wasted their time and money on snow making, no matter how little. 

The only thing I question Cannon on is not getting reopen this weekend. Along with Attitash, Cannon is the only area that opened last weekend that couldn't get open again. I think they had a good enough window. They could also open tomorrow (Sunday) for sure but already called off the entire weekend. I'm being intellectually honest here and not just being a cheer leader for my favorites and being critical of my least favorites... Cannon dropped the ball this weekend after doing a great thing last weekend.

Bottom line is Cannon and WV went at things different and I applaud Cannon for their strategy.


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## Cannonball (Dec 3, 2011)

threecy said:


> So, how many days did Sunapee pump?  You're implying they ran their system as much as Cannon did and in marginal temperatures.  Did they essentially make a week of snow, or did they run a system test (we see posts fairly frequently on AZ in the fall about 'blowing out the mice')?



Not sure how many days Sunapee pumped.  From their FB photos it looks like a few.  They announced that they were blowing so that they could open on the 25th, so I don't think it was just a test.   I didn't imply anything of the sort.  I agreed with you that they spent less effort than Cannon.  But I see this as a poor decision when it comes to snowmaking.  Either go for it or don't.  Cannon went for it and opened.  Then bad weather shut them down.  Sunapee sort of went for, couldn't open, and bad weather has wasted all of their efforts.

I wouldn't come on here to knock Sunapee for their decisions.  Ski areas have to make tough decisions about early season snowmaking.  It's a gamble.  Cannon, WV, Sunapee, and others all gambled.  The weather pattern has made many of those gambles mostly losses.  So it goes.  But you can't jump in and single out Cannon as a bad decision maker when all these other areas are in the same boat....or worse.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2011)

Bottomline #2: Unless you're Killington or Sunday River (and even with them it's debatable) the only reason  major resorts try and get open for Thanksgiving is marketing.  Pretty much every single major New England ski operator (Save for Stratton) made an effort to get open for the Holiday weekend.  It was to generate buzz that the season is(almost) upon us.

Threecy said Peaks was the only one who was smart?  If so, then why were they opening Attitash to the base when they were going to have to close it?

Triple Peaks went with Okemo over Sunapee.  Some mid-sized areas such as Bromley and Burke didn't make a run at opening, but they really never do for Thanksgiving weekend.  

Cannon made a run at opening because they want to be a major player in the New England market.  That's why they have a new lodge, Mittersill etc.  I applaud JD for going for it and delivering a product that was packed.

Waterville's strategy, even if it cost them a little less money, was vastly inferior to Cannon's.  I'm not so sure Threecy's argument that they saved a ton of money over Cannon holds any water.  As I said, the Cannon product probably returned cash receipts in the neighborhood of $10 to $1 over Waterville's product.  The fact that Waterville had to run two lifts, further tilts the financial scale in favor of Cannon.

This is mostly obsessive compulsive politically biased bull shit from threecy, nothing more, nothing less.  I hope the lurkers who read this forum realize that all this is is threey doing everything he possible can to slam Cannon and continue to build a case for the mountain being leased.


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## Smellytele (Dec 3, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Bottomline #2: Unless you're Killington or Sunday River (and even with them it's debatable) the only reason  major resorts try and get open for Thanksgiving is marketing.  Pretty much every single major New England ski operator (Save for Stratton) made an effort to get open for the Holiday weekend.  It was to generate buzz that the season is(almost) upon us.
> 
> Threecy said Peaks was the only one who was smart?  If so, then why were they opening Attitash to the base when they were going to have to close it?
> 
> ...



+1 - 
This is mostly obsessive compulsive politically biased bull shit from threecy


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## riverc0il (Dec 3, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> The fact that Waterville had to run two lifts, further tilts the financial scale in favor of Cannon.


Cannon also spun Eaglecliff for the weekend for green circle access. So both areas spun a high speed and fixed grip lift and lift costs were likely equal (aside from any extra cost if WV opened their mid-mountain lodge). The difference was that Cannon offered green circle terrain from the base area without up/down loading and Waterville didn't.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 3, 2011)

It's sad to see that another Cannon thread get highjacked by a deeply personal vandetta.  As I said, no sense in trying to even debate...the only thing that appears to have changed is that Threecy is now working for WV.  Hindsight is always 20/20 and had it been the other way around I'm sure that he would have found something to pin on Cannon.


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## Cannonball (Dec 3, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> It's sad to see that another Cannon thread get highjacked by a deeply personal vandetta.



Now if we could ever get the AZ Challenge results from Cannon I'm sure we'll have some MAJOR highjacking!


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## riverc0il (Dec 3, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> the only thing that appears to have changed is that Threecy is now working for WV.


Has this been confirmed? It would certainly make a lot of sense. But until confirmed, I think we should stick to questions rather than conjecture. If true, it certainly eliminates any supposed objectiveness that threecy had left as it would mean not only a political agenda but also a professional and competitive bias.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 3, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Has this been confirmed? It would certainly make a lot of sense. But until confirmed, I think we should stick to questions rather than conjecture. If true, it certainly eliminates any supposed objectiveness that threecy had left as it would mean not only a political agenda but also a professional and competitive bias.



It's only a guess......


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## MadPadraic (Dec 3, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Cannon also spun Eaglecliff for the weekend for green circle access. So both areas spun a high speed and fixed grip lift and lift costs were likely equal (aside from any extra cost if WV opened their mid-mountain lodge). The difference was that Cannon offered green circle terrain from the base area without up/down loading and Waterville didn't.



Loon had similar, and it was packed. Sounds like a good strategy to me.


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## threecy (Dec 3, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> The only thing I question Cannon on is not getting reopen this weekend. Along with Attitash, Cannon is the only area that opened last weekend that couldn't get open again. I think they had a good enough window. They could also open tomorrow (Sunday) for sure but already called off the entire weekend.



They haven't had the window for the lower 1/3rd (which is also the part that essentially completely melted out).  It was in the 30s when I drove through around 8, and 34 when I stopped by an hour after sunset.  They were attempting to run one base gun at that point, but it was irrigating.  They've had some wacky temperatures at Peabody base - this evening it was 4 degrees cooler in Lincoln and I think (don't recall exactly) slightly cooler in St. J.

They've put down a little bit of snow around the base area (I suspect Thursday night and maybe a few hours late last night), but not too much.  I suspect much of that will disappear again if the next few days end up warm.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2011)

care to confirm or deny employment with Waterville?


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## threecy (Dec 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> care to confirm or deny employment with Waterville?



No.  I think it's ridiculous to see two members of the staff on this site publically trying to reveal someone's place of employment.  I've also been wrongly accused of working for Sunapee, working for Cannon, being fired from Cannon, not getting a job at Cannon, etc.  It's just another round of the "when did you stop beating your wife?" type questions/accusations, unfortunately this time started and propgated by the moderators here.  I know that pushing these threads builds traffic and advertising revenue for AZ, but this is ridiculous.

It is perhaps ironic that my employment status and intentions are always questioned, yet those who are blindly pro-government-funded-Cannon, regardless of questionable accounting, public access, environmental damage, etc. aren't.  If you do even a slight bit of research into some of the biggest pro-government-funded-Cannon supporters, you'll find an interesting story of personal/family financial interest.


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## riverc0il (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy said:


> It is perhaps ironic that my employment status and intentions are always questioned, yet those who are blindly pro-government-funded-Cannon, regardless of questionable accounting, public access, environmental damage, etc. aren't.  If you do even a slight bit of research into some of the biggest pro-government-funded-Cannon supporters, you'll find an interesting story of personal/family financial interest.


I'll go for disclosure here. My company is contracted in by the state to run a business for them. But I am still anti-lease of Cannon. I also listened to both arguments with a completely open mind with the understanding that my own job is private through partnership with the state. Go figure. I just don't think privatization of every single aspect of government is appropriate, but a lot of aspects are. So no agenda here and definitely no financial or personal interest.


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## witch hobble (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy, I always assumed you didn't work at all (aside from all the "axe grinding") as you seem to have enough time to constantly be on both mountains multiple times/days during the snowmaking ramp up, and with all your documentation of Cannon's malfeasance and ineptitude.  Not to mention all the time logged in on ski websites.

So don't go crying.  You'll get little sympathy for what seems like an obvious agenda of your own to push buttons, and then followed up by facetious ambiguity when somebody tries to call you on it.


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## MadPadraic (Dec 4, 2011)

I'll admit to having a personal financial interest in Cannon. I love that their weekend ticket prices were 12% below Sunapee, Loon and Bretton Wood's last year. I love that they are run on a shoestring and send much of the savings towards their customers.

I also appreciate the downward market pressure that they apply to lift ticket prices.


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## bobbutts (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy said:


> No.  I think it's ridiculous to see two members of the staff on this site publically trying to reveal someone's place of employment.  I've also been wrongly accused of working for Sunapee, working for Cannon, being fired from Cannon, not getting a job at Cannon, etc.  It's just another round of the "when did you stop beating your wife?" type questions/accusations, unfortunately this time started and propgated by the moderators here.  I know that pushing these threads builds traffic and advertising revenue for AZ, but this is ridiculous.
> 
> It is perhaps ironic that my employment status and intentions are always questioned, yet those who are blindly pro-government-funded-Cannon, regardless of questionable accounting, public access, environmental damage, etc. aren't.  If you do even a slight bit of research into some of the biggest pro-government-funded-Cannon supporters, you'll find an interesting story of personal/family financial interest.



I think the moderator in question is more likely working off his dislike of you more than trying to drive advertising revenue.  I may be off, but I don't think he gets a cent from this site.


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## AdironRider (Dec 4, 2011)

Glad to see threecy is still a douche. 

And thats coming from me. 

Everyone whos anyone (minus Stratton) made a run for it. To go back and armchair quarterback who made out the best for reasons beyond their control is trivial. 

Cannon had the better opening. Done, no need to argue. They both closed. Bummer. 

One thing we can all agree on is High Country sucks, and ski hills closing sucks. 

Its not really dumping out West these past couple weeks either, JHole has lifts breaking down for 1/2 hour opening day. Its early season. November skiing. I got close to 10 days in, which is one of my better Novembers ever. Im pretty happy.

Time to ski.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy said:


> I know that pushing these threads builds traffic and advertising revenue for AZ, but this is ridiculous.



Most I've laughed all weekend.  Yup, just trying to build ad revenue by engaging you.  :lol:

Truthfully, I'd rather you stay out of Cannon threads all together.  I know many find the Cannon marathon threads gold, but I find it extremely annoying (in a Tim Tebow Evangelist way) that you take every single possible chance you can get to slam Cannon and continue on your zealous quest to gain pro-lease support in every corner of the internet.  

I had not consider the Waterville employment until Trailboss suggested it.  It does make sense though considering how you've been framing your arguments in this thread.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy said:


> It's just another round of the "when did you stop beating your wife?" type questions/accusations, unfortunately this time started and propgated by the moderators here.  I know that pushing these threads builds traffic and advertising revenue for AZ, but this is ridiculous.



Yep, that is definitely it!  :lol:  You caught us!  We got SIKSKIER to start a thread about Cannon opening that we knew that you had to highjack.  We're pushers and it's our fault that you started this whole thing again.    

You made me laugh.  Good work.  This nonsense is why you and your virtual "Occupy Cannon" movement aren't taken seriously here.  And yeah I make a lot off this site... :roll:


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## threecy (Dec 4, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> And yeah I make a lot off this site... :roll:



I take it moderators aren't given free lift tickets from the direct advertising agreements anymore?  I know that used to be a nice tax free perk.




deadheadskier said:


> Truthfully, I'd rather you stay out of Cannon threads all together.



Is that an official request as moderator?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy said:


> Is that an official request as moderator?



of course not.  just stating my opinion that like Evangelists, I find your insistence on cramming your agenda down people's throats every chance you get annoying.

Cannon skiers were psyched their mountain opened for the holiday weekend. Sikskier, Puck It, Johnskiismore, all psyched to get their season going over at their home mountain.  That's what this thread was about until you had to cram your political agenda into the thread by the fifth post.

So no, it's not an official request, but it should come as no surprise to you that you've been crapped on by me and pretty much every other poster in the thread for bringing your crusade into the conversation AGAIN.


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## threecy (Dec 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Cannon skiers were psyched their mountain opened for the holiday weekend. Sikskier, Puck It, Johnskiismore, all psyched to get their season going over at their home mountain.  That's what this thread was about until you had to cram your political agenda into the thread by the fifth post.
> 
> So no, it's not an official request, but it should come as no surprise to you that you've been crapped on by me and pretty much every other poster in the thread for bringing your crusade into the conversation AGAIN.



Seemed to me that it took a turn when I posted a photo (and only a photo, no commentary with it) showing the result of the efforts.  I tried to provide some insight about snowmaking, however if you continue reading after the commentary-less photo, you'll see that you and others were trying to ratchet things up, while seemingly not having much experience or knowledge about snowmaking.  You can try to deflect all that you want, but most other major areas with the ability to do so started their snowmaking campaigns from the top down due to the weather pattern this fall.  Cannon chose not to and you've seen the results.  Enjoy your day.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 4, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> It's sad to see that another Cannon thread get highjacked by a deeply personal vandetta.  As I said, no sense in trying to even debate...the only thing that appears to have changed is that Threecy is now working for WV.  Hindsight is always 20/20 and had it been the other way around I'm sure that he would have found something to pin on Cannon.



Only becuase you let it get that way.  Did you have to respond?  If you view Threecy as a troll, then you shouldn't feed the troll.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Most I've laughed all weekend.  Yup, just trying to build ad revenue by engaging you.  :lol:
> 
> Truthfully, I'd rather you stay out of Cannon threads all together.  I know many find the Cannon marathon threads gold, but I find it extremely annoying (in a Tim Tebow Evangelist way) that you take every single possible chance you can get to slam Cannon and continue on your zealous quest to gain pro-lease support in every corner of the internet.
> 
> I had not consider the Waterville employment until Trailboss suggested it.  It does make sense though considering how you've been framing your arguments in this thread.



Then be the bigger man and ignore them.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2011)

threecy said:


> Seemed to me that it took a turn when I posted a photo (and only a photo, no commentary with it) showing the result of the efforts.  I tried to provide some insight about snowmaking, however if you continue reading after the commentary-less photo, you'll see that you and others were trying to ratchet things up, while seemingly not having much experience or knowledge about snowmaking.  You can try to deflect all that you want, but most other major areas with the ability to do so started their snowmaking campaigns from the top down due to the weather pattern this fall.  Cannon chose not to and you've seen the results.  Enjoy your day.



threecy, do you think people are that dense around here to not know that you were using the fifth post in this thread and the ensuing forecast to pull back and fire a shot at state run Cannon?  give me a break

seriously, get help.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> ......and Loon, Killington, Sunday River, Bretton Woods and Sugarbush all blew to their base for the holiday weekend despite having the ability to offer upper mountain skiing only if they so chose.
> 
> other areas such as Jay, Stowe and Attitash that don't have upper mountain capabilities blew to their base.
> 
> High Country at Waterville sucks.  I'd never spend my early season dollars to ski that over the other far better alternatives out there this past weekend.



He trashes Cannon, you trash Waterville......pot meet kettle.

While I don't have a dog in the fight I will say this.  Cannon is a state run, uses tax payer money most years to fund their endevour.  Threecy being against this I can see his point as to pissing money away to make snow, not saying I agree or disagree.  However as long as the state of NH owns it I have no problem with them blowing snow whether it be snow for show, marketing or because of need.  If the state is going to own Cannon (large mountain), it needs to compete with other large mountains and this means they need to go after every portion of the market that they fight for with WV, Loon, Wildcat, east into Maine and west into Vermont.  If they don't then they become even a bigger burden on the tax payer.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> He trashes Cannon, you trash Waterville......pot meet kettle.
> 
> While I don't have a dog in the fight I will say this.  Cannon is a state run, uses tax payer money most years to fund their endevour.  Threecy being against this I can see his point as to pissing money away to make snow, not saying I agree or disagree.  However as long as the state of NH owns it I have no problem with them blowing snow whether it be snow for show, marketing or because of need.  If the state is going to own Cannon (large mountain), it needs to compete with other large mountains and this means they need to go after every portion of the market that they fight for with WV, Loon, Wildcat, east into Maine and west into Vermont.  If they don't then they become even a bigger burden on the tax payer.



I got sucked into and contributed to the argument, but that's not my primary point.  

My primary point is that I just think it's friggin' lame that Cannon skiers were celebrating their mountain opening for the season and threecy took it as an opportunity to come in and take a giant dump on the place and continue to push his political agenda.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I got sucked into and contributed to the argument, but that's not my primary point.
> 
> My primary point is that I just think it's friggin' lame that Cannon skiers were celebrating their mountain opening for the season and threecy took it as an opportunity to come in and take a giant dump on the place and continue to push his political agenda.



Gotcha, fair enough.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> My primary point is that I just think it's friggin' lame that Cannon skiers were celebrating their mountain opening for the season and threecy took it as an opportunity to come in and take a giant dump on the place and continue to push his political agenda.



+ 1.  And yes it is trolling and we don't allow it.


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## riverc0il (Dec 4, 2011)

Trolling? Huh? I disagree with threecy and call him out. But there is a difference between having an agenda and an ax to grind and trolling... 

Also, I think there is a difference between calling out threecy and being hostile...


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## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> + 1.  And yes it is trolling and we don't allow it.





riverc0il said:


> Trolling? Huh? I disagree with threecy and call him out. But there is a difference between having an agenda and an ax to grind and trolling...



definitely agree with river on this.  Threecy isn't trolling at all.  By definition, trolling is making comments designed to create a negative emotional response by readers, to piss people off with the express purpose of starting a flame war.

threecy has never done that outside of when being pushed around by others and defending himself.  I can't blame him for that. People (myself, very much included) get pissed off with the agenda he tries to ram down peoples throats, but his goal in doing that isn't to piss people off.  His goal is to get people to "come to Jesus" and see how terrible NH is at running ski areas and how much better off we all would be if Cannon was leased.  That's why I made the Evangelist comparison.

It's friggen lame to continuously push his agenda like he does, but doing so doesn't break forum rules.  I have no problem calling out that lameness and seeing other members do the same.


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 5, 2011)

Wow.I go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose.Disagree or not with threecy,you must be blind to not see his biased view of Cannon.I'm sure I have one as almost 40 years of season passes would attest to.But I sure don't push my bias on others unless its part of a discussion.The result of his constant bashing is very polarizing though as is evident in these many Cannon threads.I wish I was smart enough to to know I was starting the crap throwing contest all over again.I'll finfish by asking threecy that with all your posts here about not making snow at lower elevations,why have you not discussed Loon which lies 1000 ft below Cannon and IS operating?Why?Because it doesn't fit his argument and agebda to bash Cannon.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 5, 2011)

SIKSKIER said:


> Wow.I go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose.Disagree or not with threecy,you must be blind to not see his biased view of Cannon.I'm sure I have one as almost 40 years of season passes would attest to.But I sure don't push my bias on others unless its part of a discussion.The result of his constant bashing is very polarizing though as is evident in these many Cannon threads.I wish I was smart enough to to know I was starting the crap throwing contest all over again.I'll finfish by asking threecy that with all your posts here about not making snow at lower elevations,why have you not discussed Loon which lies 1000 ft below Cannon and IS operating?Why?Because it doesn't fit his argument and agebda to bash Cannon.




No, please keep posting on Cannon and throw in some TR's so that we can hear how things are going.


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 5, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> No, please keep posting on Cannon and throw in some TR's so that we can hear how things are going.



It looked pretty sad on Saturday.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 5, 2011)

SIKSKIER said:


> It looked pretty sad on Saturday.



A lot of places did I'm sure...it has been a rough start, even out here in UT.


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## Puck it (Dec 5, 2011)

Stop feeding the Threecy Fish, please!!!!!


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## powhunter (Dec 5, 2011)

Nice article about Cannon in the new ski mag

Steveo


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## thetrailboss (Dec 5, 2011)

powhunter said:


> Nice article about Cannon in the new ski mag
> 
> Steveo



I just read it as well.  I thought it was a nice piece.


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## LiquidFeet (Dec 6, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I just read it as well.  I thought it was a nice piece.



Can someone provide the link?  
or..... What new ski mag?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 6, 2011)

LiquidFeet said:


> Can someone provide the link?
> or..... What new ski mag?



Sure thing.  Let me see if I can find it.  It was in the December 2011 issue of SKI Magazine, which interestingly enough, is almost entirely put online piece by piece it seems.


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## LiquidFeet (Dec 6, 2011)

oh.  New issue, not new magazine.  Got it somewhere here.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 6, 2011)

LiquidFeet said:


> oh. New issue, not new magazine. Got it somewhere here.


 
Nice pictures, nice (short) article.  Joe Cutts talked about skiing Mittersill, Mittersill's history, and how it ties into Cannon.


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## LiquidFeet (Dec 6, 2011)

I remember reading it.


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## Gnarcissaro (Dec 8, 2011)

Just saw that Cannon will re-open tomorrow at 9am off the Peabody Express. $30 ticket.

They claim 6" of the last system.


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