# Kitchen redesign help



## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

We are looking to redo our kitchen. We will be going with a med cherry cabinet with a simple "shaker" style door. We are leaning to a charcoal/black granite countertop, but are open to options. As far as cabinets, Ikea is being concidered but we are open to other choices there. Here are two layouts we are thinking about. One block = one foot. 






We want to put a bar, wet sink where this piece is, there is a bathroom on the other side of the wall, so water will be simple. We also want to but a wine fringe there too. I have 45" to work with. 





Current Kitchen. Cabinets will go to the ceiling. A 37" flat screen where the phone and clock are. 





cabinet above the frdge to give a built in look. 

Idea one:




Keeping with the same basic layout. reversing the corner cabinet in the corner for storage and audio.





Option 2 adding a center island. Doing this looses one seat there, would there be enough room to wrap around the island? 

We are open to ideas.


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## MR. evil (Aug 12, 2009)

Take my advice for what its worth. Ikea kitchen cabinets are junk! 

My wife and I have been looking into re-doing our kitchen and so far I have been very impressed with most of the cabinet lines carried by Home Depot and Lowes. Also do yourself a favor and sit down with a kitchen designer at one of those stores. Coming up with your own basic layout is a good start. But a kitchen designer is going to know all of the cool options and goodies they can use with the various lines they represent and come up with some very cool and functional designs. These design services are typically free if you purchase cabinets from them. 

I really cannot stress how much of a specialty kitchen design is. I am an architect and I would not dare design my own kitchen. With the help of a co-worker I worked out a very basic layout just to get the flow Randi and I were looking for. The next step will be to meet with a kitchen designer and let them at it. I will have them work on one or two schemes roughly based on my layout, and one or two completely on their own. Then go from there to a more polished design.


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## hammer (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm not an architect or a kitchen designer, and I can hardly swing a hammer, but I had a kitchen addition done a few years ago...so take my advice for what it's worth...

I'm not sure I'd go with an island...I like them and have one, but in your configuration, it would make for a longer walk from the fridge to the stove or sink.  Are you keeping the floors (which look great in the pictures) or are you replacing them?

I'd also second the advice on the cabinets...and make sure you go at least one up from the basic price level.  When I had new cabinets installed, I went with better doors but I didn't realize that the components behind them were cheap until after the cabinets were delivered and the contractor had to struggle with installing them.


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## MR. evil (Aug 12, 2009)

*another option*

If you end up going with the same layout look into cabinet re-facing. My parents just had this done and it came out amazing!

Basically you re-use the existing cabinet box, and get new solid wood doors and drawers. They have every style, wood species and finish you could want. They will veneer the exposed existing cabinet carcasses with 1/4" hardwood plywood to match the new doors and drawers. It’s also possible to make some modifications to the existing cabinets and add all types of decorative moldings, My parents kitchen went from a very plain kitchen to what looks like a custom kitchen in a matter days. I am a real stickler for details / quality and I was shocked by the final product. They also had a custom island added to the kitchen and replaced all the counter tops with solid surface.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 12, 2009)

My only comment is that it's doubtful you'll get much of an ROI as your kitchen is quite nice as it is. Maybe a new counter top (looks to be laminate?) and ensure that all appliances match.  If it's purely for livability, go for it, but if you're looking for a return I wouldn't expect much as most buyers would be quite happy with what you already have.

Only thing I'd change are appliances, but that' my own personal preference.  I can't stand side by side refrigerators and I'd love a double oven for it's cooking versatility.


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## drjeff (Aug 12, 2009)

Having done a total kitchen redo(gutted the old one right back to the wall studs and knocked out a couple of walls to really open the room up) about 5 years ago,  I will DEFINATELY agree with what Mr Evil said with getting the input of a "professional" when it comes to kitchen design, both their knowledge of materials and design options is well worth it.

Also, when it comes to countertops and the kitchen area.  I used an engineered stone, Silestone, for mine and LOVE it.  Absolutely 0 maintenance.  You can place a pot/pan that just seconds before was on the stove right onto the surface without having to potentially worry about burn rings/marks, you can cut directly on it without fear of scratching the surface.  Great product that hands down I'd install again (and have in a subsequent bathroom rennovation).


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## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

The cabinets are the weak link right now, think "contractor grade". A nicer kitchen will surely be a RIT compared to what we have now.


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## ctenidae (Aug 12, 2009)

I highly recommend using professional help on the design. As in so many things, it really depends on who you get, but we had great success using Home Depot. Part of the benefit is that they send someone to measure everything, then build the kitchen on their computers using the actual room dimensions and the exact dimensions of all the pieces they carry. You'd be amazed at how frustrating (and expensive) being off a quarter inch can be. And just because the cabionets you have now fit, it doesn't mean that what you think is the exact same thing will fit. Also at HD, the measurement is free (and provides a guarantee that everything will fit), and you can spend as much time as you like working with the designer to get what you want.

We got our full set of cabinets for about $6,500, and installed them ourselves (installation would have run $7,500. 

We went with a concrete countertop, that I poured in place myself. Fun project, but not for the faint of heart, by any means.

We also reversed a corner cabinet (used an upper cabinet in its place) to hold A/V components. The HD guy and the cabinet company rep thought it was a brilliant idea, but we were thinking, "How else would you do that?"


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## Trekchick (Aug 12, 2009)

Hehe, It looks like my input is not important because the men have pretty much said what I was going to.


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## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Hehe, It looks like my input is not important because the men have pretty much said what I was going to.


isn't that redundant?


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## wa-loaf (Aug 12, 2009)

What's been said already. We looked into Ikea and when you take into account the time that's needed to assemble them or pay someone to do it it's not worth it. We went with Kraft Made and a similar style to what you are looking for:





 (facebook link, not sure if this will work)


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## marcski (Aug 12, 2009)

We also redid our kitchen 3 years ago and went with Kraftmade cabinets which we bought at Lowes.  They do have some "designers" that work at Lowes, that help you, using a computerized design program.  If you get a good "designer" (s)he will help you a lot.  

If I remember correctly, we applied for a Lowe's credit card and got a pretty good discount using it to buy the cabinets.   

Kraftmade (and Lowes) were very easy to work with. We ended up adding some items once the project got started...(extra ogee moldings and we also had the bottoms of the upper cabinets covered with matching wood and we recessed under cabinet lighting.)  Once you made an initial order with Kraftmade, they turned around our additional order in like a week or so.  They also sent us 2 additional doors....as we didn't love the grain on the originals.

Here are some pics.  They were obviously taken before it was fully completed...no hardware on the cabinets...I don't think the backsplash was grouted yet either.  The fridge in the pic was swapped out for a cabinet depth model (still french door) and that area looks awesome...like a built-in with the pantry and above fridge cabinet like you are thinking of doing.
















and now one Before Pic.  Wow, what a difference this new kitchen made!!!  I forgot how fugly the old white washed kitchen was!


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## TheBEast (Aug 12, 2009)

I'll take your kitchen any day.....compared to my 1970's cabinets and countertop!!  It's just got to go.  If you're looking for someone to take your old cabinets off your hands.....let me know!!


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## marcski (Aug 12, 2009)

Oh also....your old upper cabinets (and lowers if you have the room) are great ...super great to put in your garage for extra storage.

(Sorry  BEast!)


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## TheBEast (Aug 12, 2009)

marcski said:


> Oh also....your old upper cabinets (and lowers if you have the room) are great ...super great to put in your garage for extra storage.
> 
> (Sorry  BEast!)



Funny....we did this with my in-laws cabinets when they re-did their kitchen....so now I've got almost nicer cabinets in my garage than I do in my house!!

Nice looking kitchen marcski!  Definetly and nice upgrade....we're re-doing our bathroom this fall (think 1970's bably blue tub and those little small 2"x2" tiles on the floor = YUCK!!).  Kitchen is next on the list.


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## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

I am set for cabinets in teh garage....





Seriously, if someone wants to make me an offer on the current cabinets and or dishwasher, microwave and sink. PM me.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 12, 2009)

You sleep in your garage?

It's like a museum in there :lol:


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## marcski (Aug 12, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> You sleep in your garage?
> 
> It's like a museum in there :lol:




Seriously!  Wow, Phil...we might think you're anal with a garage that clean..Thank goodness for your awesome Ski Binding Crown Molding in there...otherwise all would have been lost!


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## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

Was tempted at on point to don one of those fancy floors too, but got lazy.


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## Geoff (Aug 12, 2009)

Do you guys cook much?   I think I'd be inefficient in that kitchen since the fridge, stove, and sink are so far apart.  I prefer a layout where those three things are placed close together. 


Any kitchen design that doesn't include a beer tap is just like, no.


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## marcski (Aug 12, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Do you guys cook much?   I think I'd be inefficient in that kitchen since the fridge, stove, and sink are so far apart.  I prefer a layout where those three things are placed close together.
> 
> 
> Any kitchen design that doesn't include a beer tap is just like, no.




Yes, Geoff's post reminded me of something....The Kitchen Triangle.  Here are a few websites (from a quick google search) that explains it!

http://www.merillat.com/space/work-smarter/index.aspx

http://www.renovationexperts.com/kitchen-work-triangle.asp

http://ergonomics.about.com/od/kitchen/f/work_triangle.htm

http://images.google.com/images?q=k...&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4


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## Geoff (Aug 12, 2009)

marcski said:


> Yes, Geoff's post reminded me of something....The Kitchen Triangle.  Here are a few websites (from a quick google search) that explains it!
> 
> http://www.merillat.com/space/work-smarter/index.aspx
> 
> ...



Exactly.  In Phil's layout, the triangle is quite large.   It would be interesting to wear a pedometer and try to cook for a dinner party in that kitchen.  It looks like it's 3 steps from the fridge to the sink and you invariably do all your prep work next to the sink.   That would really slow me down.  I'd be curious what a good kitchen designer could come up with in that footprint?


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## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Exactly.  In Phil's layout, the triangle is quite large.   It would be interesting to wear a pedometer and try to cook for a dinner party in that kitchen.  It looks like it's 3 steps from the fridge to the sink and you invariably do all your prep work next to the sink.   That would really slow me down.  I'd be curious what a good kitchen designer could come up with in that footprint?



from the fridge to the stove is 6'..stove to sink is 7' , sink to fridge is 11'..that in "center to center".

Here is the garage...messy...


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## hammer (Aug 12, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Here is the garage...messy...


Your messy garage is cleaner than my garage when it's "clean"...do you regularly park cars in it?


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## Philpug (Aug 12, 2009)

hammer said:


> Your messy garage is cleaner than my garage when it's "clean"...do you regularly park cars in it?



Forester and a MINI.


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## bvibert (Aug 12, 2009)

hammer said:


> Your messy garage is cleaner than my garage when it's "clean"...do you regularly park cars in it?



x2 million.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 12, 2009)

I saw that house on cribs...anyway red granite from india looks really good in a kitchen..that's what my parents have..my Dad has a wine fridge in the basement..I'll fisd out what brand it is..but it would fit in the 38 inch space..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 12, 2009)

ctenidae said:


> We got our full set of cabinets for about $6,500, and installed them ourselves (installation would have run $7,500.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Holy crap $6.5 Gs for cabinets..that's alot of meals from Outback..


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## ctenidae (Aug 12, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Holy crap $6.5 Gs for cabinets..that's alot of meals from Outback..



http://www.flickr.com/photos/10739106@N02/sets/72157604359121964/

It was worth it.
The appliances were more (and more painful- $1500 for a microwave hurt. A lot.)

The countertop is black now, and the red bump out on the ceiling is gone (and the ceiling is smooth plaster, and the recessed lights have been moved, but those pics are on another computer).  The cabinets before were the Landlord-grade white melamine coated jobbies, with a black formica countertop. Pretty brutal.

Still, cooks better than an Outback kitchen, I think.

Edit: Found some: http://www.flickr.com/photos/10739106@N02/sets/72157601622976115


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## ccskier (Aug 12, 2009)

hammer said:


> Your messy garage is cleaner than my garage when it's "clean"...do you regularly park cars in it?



This gives me some garage ambition for the near future.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 13, 2009)

ctenidae said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/10739106@N02/sets/72157604359121964/
> 
> It was worth it.
> The appliances were more (and more painful- $1500 for a microwave hurt. A lot.)
> ...



does a $1500 microwave include butler service that puts an Xray vest on you every time you use it?  :blink:


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## Philpug (Aug 13, 2009)

I still like the Ikea cabinet..boxes and many of their other features, what I don't like is the drawers. If they made a wood drawer option, they would be fine. I have no problem taking a long weekend and getting personal with an allen wrench and a screw driver. 

Note, I put the wrong second plan in the initial post, this is what I meant to put up with the island...






The island would be 4' from the stove.


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## RootDKJ (Aug 13, 2009)

TheBEast said:


> I'll take your kitchen any day.....compared to my 1970's cabinets and countertop!!  It's just got to go.  If you're looking for someone to take your old cabinets off your hands.....let me know!!



No kidding.  I have this great 70's yellow sink....



bvibert said:


> x2 million.


I'd eat off that garage floor....


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## ctenidae (Aug 13, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> does a $1500 microwave include butler service that puts an Xray vest on you every time you use it?  :blink:



I wish.

It does match the oven/dishwasher/fridge, though, so I guess we've got that going for us.


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## marcski (Aug 13, 2009)

ctenidae said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/10739106@N02/sets/72157604359121964/



That's the same fridge we ended up getting after swapping out the Amana. It is a Jenn-Aire, ctenidea, yes?

We got a kitchen-aid dishwasher as I read good things in ratings about them....and a Jenn-aire range and Micro. But our micro was nowhere near $1500. I think less than half that and we got a combo micro-convection oven.


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## ctenidae (Aug 13, 2009)

marcski said:


> That's the same fridge we ended up getting after swapping out the Amana. It is a Jenn-Aire, ctenidea, yes?
> 
> We got a kitchen-aid dishwasher as I read good things in ratings about them....and a Jenn-aire range and Micro. But our micro was nowhere near $1500. I think less than half that and we got a combo micro-convection oven.



We went all Jenn-Aire, so it all matches (which is why the microwave cost so much- it's the only one they have). Jenn-Aire was doing a deal then, and buying all 5 items at the same time gave us a better than $1000 rebate.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 13, 2009)

ctenidae said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/10739106@N02/sets/72157604359121964/
> 
> It was worth it.
> The appliances were more (and more painful- $1500 for a microwave hurt. A lot.)
> ...




$1500 for a microwave..I thought they are like $100..well anyway when you're rich I guess it doesn't matter..lol..but one day I'll meet that special someone and buy a house in the burbs and I'll have no choice but to do uber expensive remodel projects if I want to go skiing out west with my peeps..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 13, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> does a $1500 microwave include butler service that puts an Xray vest on you every time you use it?  :blink:



ahahahahaha..still boggles my mind..just so it matches..does it really matter if the microwave matches..lol


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## ctenidae (Aug 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> $1500 for a microwave..I thought they are like $100..well anyway when you're rich I guess it doesn't matter..lol..but one day I'll meet that special someone and buy a house in the burbs and I'll have no choice but to do uber expensive remodel projects if I want to go skiing out west with my peeps..



Rich.. I wish.

We did a (basically) gut remodel of the whole condo for about $25K, mostly because we did almost all the work ourselves (I don't do plumbing when it involves tapping into the main sewer line)


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 13, 2009)

ctenidae said:


> Rich.. I wish.
> 
> We did a (basically) gut remodel of the whole condo for about $25K, mostly because we did almost all the work ourselves (I don't do plumbing when it involves tapping into the main sewer line)



Since you did the labor yourself..that means you likely added more than $25k to the value of the condo right???


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## ctenidae (Aug 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Since you did the labor yourself..that means you likely added more than $25k to the value of the condo right???



God I hope so. current estimates are at about $100K over what we paid/put into it.
Assuming we can find someone to buy it.


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## hammer (Jan 7, 2014)

ctenidae said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/10739106@N02/sets/72157604359121964/
> 
> It was worth it.
> The appliances were more (and more painful- $1500 for a microwave hurt. A lot.)
> ...



Couldn't resist bumping this one...in the process of a kitchen remodel right now.  We did have a "kitchen designer" work with us on the cabinet purchase but there were a few hiccups - a few cabinets were the wrong depth (didn't catch until we got them so we are living with it) and the designer messed up on a wall dimension (caught that one in time and changed the order).  Not sure what level of design help we could/should have pursued but it's not like you see on the HGTV-type shows - we ended up making a lot of design decisions ourselves and the designer kinda went along for the ride.  Only thing that was DIY was a little of the demo, the painting, and I removed and installed a trim piece behind the refrigerator since I had it pulled out to paint.  Still working out the costs (and hopefully today we will get a sink back after close to 4 weeks without) but we did end up spending much more than what I initially hoped for.  Sure hope we get back at least some of it when we eventually sell the house.

Would like to know what the brand/type of cabinets that cten had installed, ours look similar.


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## Geoff (Jan 7, 2014)

My renovation from 4 years ago:


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## darent (Jan 7, 2014)

I have installed Ikea kitchens, junk particle board construction, go better grade with plywood panels and Good Hardware and you will be happy. let TC pick them out, the ladies always find the {expensive} Good Stuff !!


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## Bene288 (Jan 7, 2014)

hammer said:


> Couldn't resist bumping this one...in the process of a kitchen remodel right now.  We did have a "kitchen designer" work with us on the cabinet purchase but there were a few hiccups - a few cabinets were the wrong depth (didn't catch until we got them so we are living with it) and the designer messed up on a wall dimension (caught that one in time and changed the order).  Not sure what level of design help we could/should have pursued but it's not like you see on the HGTV-type shows - we ended up making a lot of design decisions ourselves and the designer kinda went along for the ride.  Only thing that was DIY was a little of the demo, the painting, and I removed and installed a trim piece behind the refrigerator since I had it pulled out to paint.  Still working out the costs (and hopefully today we will get a sink back after close to 4 weeks without) but we did end up spending much more than what I initially hoped for.  Sure hope we get back at least some of it when we eventually sell the house.
> 
> Would like to know what the brand/type of cabinets that cten had installed, ours look similar.



If in the budget, always work with a contractor that builds and installs the kitchen. Kitchen designers, from my experience, have no clue on the installation process. They'll throw together a pretty picture, order up the cabinets without regard for obstructions, squareness, etc. I've installed Kraftmaid, Omega, Shrock cabinets. I've had issues with all of them. Some being off 3/16ths of an inch, which in cabinetry might as well be 2 miles. If done correctly, you'll always get your equity back.


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