# Avalanche Awareness



## FBGM (Feb 2, 2021)

Accident: Squaretop - Utah Avalanche Center
					






					utahavalanchecenter.org
				




I know I bash on east coast resorts, Vail resorts (like we all do) and am a smart ass prick. But the Utah Avalanche Center does accident reports better then almost anywhere in the world. Lots of you guys travel out west (where I’m at) and I’m sure have thought about ducking a rope or hiking side country or back country. Read this report and watch this video.

If this stuff can save 1 life or have 1 group make a good decision it’s worth it. Even back east there is a handful of areas that could get you in trouble. 5 min read and video does nothing but give knowledge and share experiences. This one is pretty sobering. Mistakes were made and arguments can be had. End result is the same.

Get out there and ski and have fun and enjoy snow like we are all here for. Do it safe to do it another day.


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## jimk (Feb 2, 2021)

Good post.
Pretty interesting podcast here on avalanche safety with riveting testimony from a guy who survived 70 minutes under six feet of snow last year at the Silver Mtn slide.  Good stuff starts at about 4 minutes and gets emotional:


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## drjeff (Feb 3, 2021)

Agree 100%

The Utah avalanche crew is on par with the post mortem reports that the crew on Mount Washington puts out after an event..

So much good info to learn from the great info those 2 avi reporting services put out there.. Too bad that so many dumb asses


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 3, 2021)

Well that is very detailed and informative.  Also just silly that these guys went out there with the risk so high. just goes to show you that even with experience, any decision can be fata. 

thanks for the info.


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## kingslug (Feb 3, 2021)

I highly recommend anyone thinking of going into these area to take a level 1 avi course..its 3 days..and depending on where you do it..pretty hard. I did it at Alta and skinning to the top and digging pits..the altitude got me but i made it. And learned a hell of a lot. Best 220.00 i spent. 
Even when your with a guide..they aren't faultless. If you feel things aren't right, they will listen. I've survived 20 years out in that stuff.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 3, 2021)

3 men killed in avalanche near Silverton identified as prominent Eagle County community members
					

One of the victims, Adam Palmer, was a newly elected Town of Eagle trustee. Andy Jessen co-founded Bonfire Brewing in Eagle. Seth Bossung managed projects for the county’s energy efficiency department.




					coloradosun.com


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## FBGM (Feb 3, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> 3 men killed in avalanche near Silverton identified as prominent Eagle County community members
> 
> 
> One of the victims, Adam Palmer, was a newly elected Town of Eagle trustee. Andy Jessen co-founded Bonfire Brewing in Eagle. Seth Bossung managed projects for the county’s energy efficiency department.
> ...


This is a bad one. Bad year for CO. Big slide, huge terrain trap. Worst fatality avalanche since the Loveland Pass incident. Well known guys in the community it seems.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 4, 2021)

Now back east in NH










						Backcountry skier killed in avalanche in Ammonoosuc Ravine
					

SARGENT’S PURCHASE — The body of a 54-year-old backcountry skier was found in Ammonoosuc Ravine Wednesday night. Members of N.H. Fish & Game’s Advanced Search & Rescue Team along with




					www.unionleader.com


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## kingslug (Feb 4, 2021)

Crazy thing is a lot of very experienced people get killed in avis..because they are the only ones out there risking it. They have all the skills..but the snow could care less. 
I mean..it avalanched at Belleayre...it can avi anywhere at any time. I had just a little snow start running under me at Tux and it knocked me down. Freaky.


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## 1dog (Feb 4, 2021)

kingslug said:


> I highly recommend anyone thinking of going into these area to take a level 1 avi course..its 3 days..and depending on where you do it..pretty hard. I did it at Alta and skinning to the top and digging pits..the altitude got me but i made it. And learned a hell of a lot. Best 220.00 i spent.
> Even when your with a guide..they aren't faultless. If you feel things aren't right, they will listen. I've survived 20 years out in that stuff.


Skinned Superior about 6 years ago - got no sleep night before, left at 3 AM, altitude got to me, made it 500 ' below summit, called it and skied down, knee to thigh deep- fab run. Disappointed I didn't make that last 45 min to summit - until walked by Peruvian desk clerk ' how's your day? Great! Just got off Superior!' She says ' ooooh! You're lucky, summit portion just slid! two guys caught - they found them, they're ok.' 45 minutes after we got down.

Missed a bullet.

Skied Ammo just after that HUGE slide in 2010 - best runs in the Presidentials ever. but the power of that slide looked like loggers had been up there to cut trees it was so intense. Snapped 'em like  toothpicks.
Gotta take one of those classes. We never go without 2 or 3 but, only by grace of the Lord have we not gotten in trouble. . . yet.


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## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2021)

Backcountry skier killed in NH avalanche, officials say
					

The body of a missing backcountry skier was found Wednesday night under 13 feet of snow, New Hampshire Fish and Game officials said.




					wmur.com


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## jimk (Feb 4, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Crazy thing is a lot of very experienced people get killed in avis..because they are the only ones out there risking it. They have all the skills..but the snow could care less.
> I mean..it avalanched at Belleayre...it can avi anywhere at any time. I had just a little snow start running under me at Tux and it knocked me down. Freaky.


Dan Egan, from January 2021 about backcountry skiing and avalanches, "the more you know, the more danger you are in."


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## ss20 (Feb 4, 2021)

I don't know much about avalanches, but this heavy snow layer from this most recent storm could potentially be problematic for us here on the East Coast further down the road, correct?  

Another nickle/dime storm Friday/Saturday....2"-5".  Monday could be another big southern storm for the Flatlanders.


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## kingslug (Feb 4, 2021)

The worst case is when a new layer doesn't bond with the layer below. Here we get ice layers which the new snow just sits on waiting to go. 
Worst I've ever seen and skied. St Anton. 2 days of solid rain..overnight freeze..then 3 feet plus on top. The whole place avalanched..then we went skiing with guides. Scary as you hit that layer in certain areas no matter how deep it was. You can't go out if its all class 4. The stuff on the top of the peaks was a 4, but we were in class 3 which while scary is manageable with a good guide. These guys has 30 to 40 years experience. Crossing these huge slide paths sux..frozen boulders.


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## JimG. (Feb 4, 2021)

There is much to be said for "running away today to live and ski another day".


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## dblskifanatic (Feb 4, 2021)

Slide kills three in CO









						Three bodies recovered under 20-plus feet of avalanche debris in Colorado | OutThere Colorado
					

The bodies of three skiers presumed to be dead following a Monday avalanche near Silverton, Colorado have been recovered.




					www.outtherecolorado.com


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## kingslug (Feb 4, 2021)

Zermatt..2 groups..we hire guides. The other group were pretty much blue cruiser type. Waiting for them in a restaurant with great views of a huge peak. The whole peak comes down..The group comes in covered in snow..they said the  guide yelled .SKI...fast..they just escaped it. Much drinking was done later..they did not ski the next day..Much drinking....


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## FBGM (Feb 6, 2021)

No solid info yet. All prelim. 5 buried UT around noon today. Worst of worst if true. Hope they just reported wrong and all is fine. Potential to be worst ever in UT if true.

Had 9-15” new snow yesterday with bad winds. Lots of big natural cycles last night. A rabbit could set off a skid walking on a 35° slope right now.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 6, 2021)

kingslug said:


> The worst case is when a new layer doesn't bond with the layer below. Here we get ice layers which the new snow just sits on waiting to go.
> Worst I've ever seen and skied. St Anton. 2 days of solid rain..overnight freeze..then 3 feet plus on top. The whole place avalanched..then we went skiing with guides. Scary as you hit that layer in certain areas no matter how deep it was. You can't go out if its all class 4. The stuff on the top of the peaks was a 4, but we were in class 3 which while scary is manageable with a good guide. These guys has 30 to 40 years experience. Crossing these huge slide paths sux..frozen boulders.


Oh man, it sounds like you really know your stuff. You must have years and years of experience.


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## FBGM (Feb 6, 2021)

FBGM said:


> No solid info yet. All prelim. 5 buried UT around noon today. Worst of worst if true. Hope they just reported wrong and all is fine. Potential to be worst ever in UT if true.
> 
> Had 9-15” new snow yesterday with bad winds. Lots of big natural cycles last night. A rabbit could set off a skid walking on a 35° slope right now.


Worst case avoided. Reports saying no deaths all recovered. Somehow. Really curious to hear this accident report. People are just tempting fate out here.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 6, 2021)

Not five, sounds like eight with four dead.  Absolutely horrific but unfortunately predictable.  The UAC warned folks that, with the pandemic and a terrible snow year, the desire to "go big" and a weak snow pack was going to mean bad news.  I don't think anyone thought it would be THIS bad.









						Four skiers killed in Millcreek Canyon avalanche
					

Four skiers are dead after an avalanche in Millcreek Canyon.




					www.fox13now.com


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## thetrailboss (Feb 6, 2021)

UPDATE: 4 dead, 4 rescued after Millcreek Canyon avalanche
					

(UPDATE, 4:07 p. m. ) -- Unified Police confirmed that four people have died and four were rescued. The initial report from UPD mentioned five possible victims, but officials now confirm that eight people in total were buried in the avalanche. (ORIGINAL) -- Officials with the Unified Police...




					kutv.com


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## jimk (Feb 6, 2021)

It's a scary time for the backcountry!


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## FBGM (Feb 6, 2021)

Just spent the last 3 hours drinking, talking, reading reports and then putting phones down to not think about what happened with friends. Saturday morning is my backcountry day. I didn’t go today. I skied DV. It’s insane out here these days.

The accident that happened today was next level and the initial reports were cluttered and confusing. End result is what is is.

The second accident today which will be on every news media by tomorrow (the snowmobile one) just puts it over the top. I can’t even with this one. Puts it into perspective to much.

My buddy is heading on a 4 day yurt trip tomorrow instead of my super bowl party. He is scared. And he is smart. And I believe he will stay safe. This is the attitude you need right now.

Follow up will come. You will all see this on your CNN and Fox in days to come. I don’t even want to know how they will portray this.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 7, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Just spent the last 3 hours drinking, talking, reading reports and then putting phones down to not think about what happened with friends. Saturday morning is my backcountry day. I didn’t go today. I skied DV. It’s insane out here these days.
> 
> The accident that happened today was next level and the initial reports were cluttered and confusing. End result is what is is.
> 
> ...


Did you know them?  That sucks.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 7, 2021)

This is nuts.









						Sundance Mountain Resort closes temporarily due to avalanche
					

Sundance Mountain Resort closed temporarily Saturday afternoon after a skier triggered an avalanche.




					www.fox13now.com
				












						Snowmobilers survive close call with avalanche in Uintas, capture it on video
					

A snowmobiler caught an avalanche on camera Saturday in Utah's mountains.




					www.fox13now.com


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## jimk (Feb 7, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> This is nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Click on the second video clip in that report, the one that shows a bit of snowmobile sticking up in the snow.  The guy who took it briefly describes the avalanche that just happened and then pans to the face of a companion still buried up to his neck in the snow and asks, "you ok bud?"


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## FBGM (Feb 7, 2021)

Didn’t know any but all young adults, lots of life left. Few miles away as the crow flys. Hearing the reports, seeing the helicopters all afternoon, areas I’ve been. It hits hard.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 8, 2021)

Accident: Wilson Glade - Utah Avalanche Center
					






					utahavalanchecenter.org


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## thetrailboss (Feb 8, 2021)

Fatal out-of-bounds avalanches prompt PCMR to shut backcountry gates indefinitely
					

PCMR has closed its backcountry gates indefinitely after two fatal avalanches just outside of its boundaries in recent weeks.




					www.parkrecord.com


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## raisingarizona (Feb 8, 2021)

jimk said:


> Click on the second video clip in that report, the one that shows a bit of snowmobile sticking up in the snow.  The guy who took it briefly describes the avalanche that just happened and then pans to the face of a companion still buried up to his neck in the snow and asks, "you ok bud?"


That was pretty lame of him. You want to get everybody out and clear as fast as possible. If another slide came down they could be smoked. I would have been terrified being buried up to my neck like that.


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## kingslug (Feb 9, 2021)

Buried in cement pretty much..That alone can fuck you up.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 9, 2021)

Avalanche on Mt. Washington: Skiin' Ian's Final Run – VT SKI + RIDE
					

[Updated on 2/10/21] Ian Forgays was a backcountry skier: Skiin’ Ian as he was known and “Lincoln Lynx.” He wasn’t




					vtskiandride.com
				




Low risk day by an experienced BC guy.  Maybe he would have lived skiing in a group, but unlikely given he was buried almost 13 feet deep.  Had he been with others it may have just meant more body bags.

I have to say that as much as I love the gnar, as a husband and a parent, my risk tolerance just isn't there anymore.  I have enough thrills in bounds.


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## abc (Feb 9, 2021)

BC skiing isn't necessarily about gnar. It's a sense of freedom, away from the maddening crowd, and predictability. 

Granted, this guy was after gnar and he lost it on this day. But it's a particular day and a particular line. Not about inbound vs bc. 

A few years back in Kirkwood, a mother and her kid was buried by snow sliding off the roof and died .  It was a phenomenon snow year there. The amount of snow on the roof was just beyond anyone's experience. Sometimes, "shit happens".


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## deadheadskier (Feb 9, 2021)

abc said:


> BC skiing isn't necessarily about gnar. It's a sense of freedom, away from the maddening crowd, and predictability.
> 
> Granted, this guy was after gnar and he lost it on this day. But it's a particular day and a particular line. Not about inbound vs bc.
> 
> A few years back in Kirkwood, a mother and her kid was buried by snow sliding off the roof and died .  It was a phenomenon snow year there. The amount of snow on the roof was just beyond anyone's experience. Sometimes, "shit happens".


This conversation is about high risk unmitigated avalanche terrain and the dangers even when the risk is low based upon known conditions.

Not shit happens like someone having a gender reveal party Cannon blow up in their face or the unfortunate situation you describe with that mother and child with the roof slide 

I get the appeal. I've summited the Chin on Mansfield probably 50+ times looking for that and will do it many times again.  

My message is about risk tolerance given my familial commitments, nothing more.  I have a lot of "hold my beer" stories from my past. Probably more than most.  Those days are gone is all I'm saying.


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## abc (Feb 9, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> My message is about risk tolerance given my familial commitments, nothing more. I have a lot of "hold my beer" stories from my past. Probably more than most. Those days are gone is all I'm saying.


I hear you. Good for you being a responsible father. 

My risk tolerance decreased mysteriously right around the same age when most people have kids, even though I didn't have any (kids).  Or, it may have something to do with most of my cohorts were starting to have kids? They're no longer impressed by others doing that "hold my beer" runs.


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## Zermatt (Feb 10, 2021)

Great article, horrible outcome.









						Avalanche on Mt. Washington: Skiin' Ian's Final Run – VT SKI + RIDE
					

[Updated on 2/10/21] Ian Forgays was a backcountry skier: Skiin’ Ian as he was known and “Lincoln Lynx.” He wasn’t




					vtskiandride.com


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## kingslug (Feb 10, 2021)

Last season was the first time in a while I ventured out into avi terrain. But these guides know their shit better than anyone. Still..it was freaky.


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## FBGM (Feb 10, 2021)

4-6” of liquid over next 7 days for UT Wasatch. So 4-6 feet of snow. Starting Friday. Just in time for weekend. Again, the world is going come unglued here. Scared for outcomes. Hoping for the best. Maybe this last accident scared some people straight.


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## kingslug (Feb 11, 2021)

Crazy lift lines causing more to venture out in the back country?
Sounds like it.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 11, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Crazy lift lines causing more to venture out in the back country?
> Sounds like it.











						Why Utah is in the middle of one of its most deadly ski seasons
					

At the core of one of Utah's most deadly avalanche seasons are an unusually finicky and weak snowpack and record number of people recreating in the backcountry. But experts say this year is an anomaly and, if skiers and snowboarders show patience, more avalanche deaths are not necessarily in the...




					www.sltrib.com
				





Some highlights:



> In Utah, that surge continued through the summer. It was spurred by more people moving into the Salt Lake Valley and by uncertainty about whether resorts would open this season and, if so, for how long. Though tracking of backcountry traffic has been spotty, *some preliminary U.S. Forest Service data out of the Salt Lake office shows visitation up 200% over last year*.





> Four people died Feb. 6 when *an avalanche the width of 10 football fields swept up seven of eight skiers *who were skinning up a trail alongside Wilson Glade in Mill Creek Canyon. The skiers were divided into two groups. One included five skiers who originated in Big Cottonwood Canyon and were climbing to take another run, and the second included three who were making their way up from Mill Creek Canyon.





> “We’ve got a super savvy crew of backcountry skiers and boarders and riders who know how to manage these certain parameters that they have seen before,” he said. “And I think the curve ball right now is, a lot of us have never seen this before.”





> All who have died in Utah this year have been experienced backcountry skiers and riders and all but Steuterman were skiing with partners and carrying backcountry essentials: a shovel, a beacon and a probe.





> “If we’re depending on rescue gear,” he said in November, “we’ve already screwed up.”


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## dblskifanatic (Feb 11, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Crazy lift lines causing more to venture out in the back country?
> Sounds like it.



In Colorado, that is definitely the case.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...-for-avalanches-since-1910-4-dead-in-colorado 

That article one thing stood out an eastern state NH









						Experienced Skier Killed in Avalanche in New Hampshire’s Ammonoosuc Ravine
					

New Hampshire Fish and Game has confirmed the death of a skier in an avalanche in the Ammonoosuc Ravine of New Hampshire’s Presidential Range. Following a 24-hour search, which began Tuesday night, a multiagency rescue effort recovered the individual’s body on the west side of Mt. Washington...




					backcountrymagazine.com
				




Just the thought of being trapped under feet of snow and not being able to move is enough to discourage serious terrain in he backcountry.  Top of Loveland Pass is more my speed where there is less risk.   But just driving up Loveland Pass can be an issue as it was last year.


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## kingslug (Feb 12, 2021)

I had a little taste of that last season..fell into a hole in feet of snow..the second my face got covered i freaked a little as i could barly push it off..got out of it but it shook me up pretty well..the guide was watching above me and was ready to come down to me..happened so fast i didnt know what the hell happened. 
Later we came across a group..no guide..contemplating dropping into an area they probably knew nothing about..we left fast.
I cant imagine being out there with all these people all over the place..above you..scary.
Even when you book a guide..most people have no experience..they hand you avi gear that without practice is useless..a beacon..they will use that to find you..
It must be pretty stressfull guiding people whose lives you are responsible for..knowing they cant help you if you get buried..


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## FBGM (Feb 12, 2021)

__





						Accident: Wilson Glade - Utah Avalanche Center
					






					utahavalanchecenter.org
				




Full report now up. Rough read.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 12, 2021)

FBGM said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The video summary.  The reporter is obviously shaken-up:






The next week looks really dangerous out there.  Be safe.


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## FBGM (Feb 12, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> The video summary.  The reporter is obviously shaken-up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Skiing mellow trees in my safe zone tomorrow and Sunday. I don’t even think about crazy stuff anymore. Not this winter


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## kingslug (Feb 12, 2021)

Sounds like most of them knew what they were doing and just got caught. It can happen anywhere any time. Deep powder is like a drug..


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## JimG. (Feb 12, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Skiing mellow trees in my safe zone tomorrow and Sunday. I don’t even think about crazy stuff anymore. Not this winter


Heh...now you sound like me.

I ski to have fun, not to test my limits every turn or step I make.


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## NYDB (Feb 12, 2021)

Jeezus that wilson glade report is awful.


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## kingslug (Feb 12, 2021)

If you ever saw a big avalanche happen..its unreal. The European ones are truly scary..takes out whole towns. Many moons ago after skiing a glacier in Austria an avalanche killed half the ski instructors the next week. 
At this point I think spending a grand for an airbag is worth it if your going to go out there. It just might save you..


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## NYDB (Feb 12, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Sounds like most of them knew what they were doing and just got caught. It can happen anywhere any time. Deep powder is like a drug..


I think skinning past multiple small avalanches would have me turning the fuck around.  

I understand going meadow skipping but that whole face was 30 degrees plus. 

I subscribe to the theory that covid has affected our decision making individually and collectively.  

We are decision making impaired over a spectrum of activities.  

We can't quite separate ourselves from it now, but in a couple years we will look back and realize it.  Quite clearly even.  
God what an awful thing.  To have to dig out dead friends.


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## kingslug (Feb 12, 2021)

20 years ago I was taken on a sidecounty tour of Alta..We went through some avi terrain. I had no idea about any of this but was told..don't stop..got to keep going going..were in an avi area. uh ok. After that there were several avis that killed a few. My friends then told me to take the avi 1 course and we have to all be prepared to go out there. Talk about an eye opener. And thats just the beginning of being prepared. I wonder how many people out there have done this. Theres so much to know. 
The scariest sound in the world when your out there is a snowmobile above you...


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## FBGM (Feb 12, 2021)

kingslug said:


> If you ever saw a big avalanche happen..its unreal. The European ones are truly scary..takes out whole towns. Many moons ago after skiing a glacier in Austria an avalanche killed half the ski instructors the next week.
> At this point I think spending a grand for an airbag is worth it if your going to go out there. It just might save you..


Air bag would not have done much good in this case. Drug into trees. Airbag is useless.

While I think airbags are a great tool and piece of technology they can also lead to a false hope and a decision made that you might not have with no airbag.


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## kingslug (Feb 12, 2021)

Agreed..its just a piece of gear that might help..but understanding its limitations is key. I wore them for the first time last year..but was still sketched out in some of the areas...just looking at and skiing over these huge slide paths was freaky..hit by one of those and you would be toast from the impact. We were above tree line most of the time.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 12, 2021)

That was a tough report to read.  

I hate to sound insensitive, but these people were freaking DUMB.  

The avalanche forecast was HIGH for where they were.  They SAW avalanches in the area, took photos and posted them to Instagram tagging the Avalanche Center!

Then they still went skiing?  What ?!?!?

Maybe there needs to be more financial deterrents to make people think twice about heading out in those conditions.

The one on Washington last week was a freak accident during relatively low danger conditions.  Utah situation not so much.


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## jimk (Feb 12, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> That was a tough report to read.
> 
> I hate to sound insensitive, but these people were freaking DUMB.
> 
> ...


Scared me to read it too.  Not an excuse, but apparently this area had never slide before.  Also, it was considered fairly low angle for a slide.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 12, 2021)

jimk said:


> Scared me to read it too.  Not an excuse, but apparently this area had never slide before.  Also, it was considered fairly low angle for a slide.


I am pretty sure that the report said that this area has slid before.  Other nearby areas have frequent slides.  Granted this slide was HUGE.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 12, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> That was a tough report to read.
> 
> I hate to sound insensitive, but these people were freaking DUMB.
> 
> ...


As said, with COVID, and a TERRIBLE snow season to date, people are really Jonesin' to ski.  As the article I posted said, last season alone there was a 200% increase of folks in the National Forest BC skiing.  We heard A LOT last week about the danger and not to go out.  Saturday it was sunny and nice with fresh snow.  I was not surprised to hear of trouble, but horrified as to the magnitude.  Again, these folks had equipment and were experienced.  I would also think that if I saw a slide I would bail on my trip.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 12, 2021)

Ya think?

If the avalanche forecast is HIGH for Northeast facing slopes at 9500 feet and you show up to such a spot and see evidence of actual avalanches when you arrive?

Condolences to their friends and family and RIP.  Totally sucks.

But this story needs to be read by anyone who BC skis in potential Avy terrain.


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## FBGM (Feb 12, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Ya think?
> 
> If the avalanche forecast is HIGH for Northeast facing slopes at 9500 feet and you show up to such a spot and see evidence of actual avalanches when you arrive?
> 
> ...


Would I have skied it? Who knows.

Should it have been skied? Questionable.

Did 4 kids die doing what they love. Yes



When a decade accident happenes like this it is fine to step back and question, review, think, etc...

I don’t like calling people dumb, saying they were idiots for being there, saying “who would go ski in high avy danger”. We all ski because we love it. No matter what coast we are on or what vacation we are on. Some of the best skiing I have ever done was in red/black avy days. You can ski whenever and wherever and manage conditions and aspects and be safe.

This accident is heavy. Mistakes were made, sure. Can we learn, yes. Wemistakes as obvious as other accidents, no. Was there some odd ball/freak stuff, yes. Worst case type shit? Yes.

TGR discussion is as best as I’ve ever seen on this. Peeps being respectful and trying to learn. So we can ski the best stuff we can and still go home to the wife, kid, beer, friend at days end.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 12, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Would I have skied it? Who knows.
> 
> Should it have been skied? Questionable.
> 
> ...


Fair enough and a very level headed view on it

You're closer to the situation and much more experienced with BC than I to have a better understanding how some folks could make such a fatal mistake. 

It was the part about the Instagram pictures of avalanches in the area and tagging the Avalanche Center that set me off.


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## jimmck (Feb 13, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> It was the part about the Instagram pictures of avalanches in the area and tagging the Avalanche Center that set me off.



I wouldn't get too hot and bothered over posting the pictures to the 'gram and tagging the UAC.  I think that by tagging the UAC, it allows for data collection by the UAC to be factored into their modeling for forecasting avalanche conditions.

For a perspective on this, listen to the Blister podcast where Jonathan Ellsworth has a discussion with Zach Guy from the Crested Butte Avalanche Center.

Blister podcast episode 161 - Zach Guy


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## NYDB (Feb 13, 2021)

Interesting that the skinner that was set that day was not the 'standard' route for the area as well.


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## FBGM (Feb 13, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Interesting that the skinner that was set that day was not the 'standard' route for the area as well.


This seems to be one big take away from the incident. Group A set skinner (not in “standard” route). Group B comes later, sees set skinner, follows.  

Just because a route is there and easy, does not mean you need to follow.


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## abc (Feb 13, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Just because a route is there and *easy*, does not mean you need to follow.


It's hard to resist using a track already there and go break different one.


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## kingslug (Feb 13, 2021)

One major thing I learned..you can dig snowpits all day..and 10 feet away it will be different. Heard the wasatch might get feet of snow soon...


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## thetrailboss (Feb 13, 2021)

kingslug said:


> One major thing I learned..you can dig snowpits all day..and 10 feet away it will be different. Heard the wasatch might get feet of snow soon...


Yes, we are in a storm cycle.  11" yesterday.  Easily another 11" today.  Snowbird was epic today.  Lines were not too bad either.  

We need the water.  Big time.


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## kingslug (Feb 13, 2021)

By N east Standards we have done well...as well. 2 feet this week...but I miss utah...so I booked for March. Can't let this be the first year in 20 that i don't go.


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## NYDB (Feb 13, 2021)

Persistent weak layer is scarier than the boogieman


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## FBGM (Feb 13, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Persistent weak layer is scarier than the boogieman


And it is not leaving anytime soon. And spookier now with feet more on top.

I took the day off today (ikon blacked out and just was not up for a tour). Maybe I’ll go tomorrow. See how it is.


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## FBGM (Feb 16, 2021)

And Wasatch coming unglued. Sitting in my office just watching IG and Facebook posts of crazy stuff. LCC closed. Alta interlodged. Saw a video of a Superior slide crossing road and all the way down to bypass road. Gonna be digging out for a bit up there.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 16, 2021)

FBGM said:


> And Wasatch coming unglued. Sitting in my office just watching IG and Facebook posts of crazy stuff. LCC closed. Alta interlodged. Saw a video of a Superior slide crossing road and all the way down to bypass road. Gonna be digging out for a bit up there.


Just in time for Friday's storm.


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## kingslug (Feb 16, 2021)

Could use some here now..we have a bit of a layer now as well.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 17, 2021)




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## kingslug (Feb 17, 2021)

Alta/Bird hit defcon 5.......


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## FBGM (Feb 17, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Alta/Bird hit defcon 5.......


They are in hunker down, don’t go outside, stay away from windows mode.

Avy rose black on all aspects and all elevations. Not sure I’ve ever seen that here.

30”+ at my house. It’s fun but getting to the annoying stage. Running out of room.


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## kingslug (Feb 17, 2021)

I was either at Alfs or Watsons  a few years ago when we got shut in...thunder snow. Came out to another 6 inches in about an hour. 
Wish I was there now...or maybe tomorrow


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## thetrailboss (Feb 17, 2021)

It's Still Snowing...
					

Wow, what a storm cycle.   It continued to snow overnight in Little Cottonwood as well as much of northern Utah.  More on the latter in a mi...




					wasatchweatherweenies.blogspot.com


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## thetrailboss (Feb 17, 2021)

More interesting stats.....



> Weather and Snow​The heavy snowfall continues bringing an additional 8-15 inches (0.45 - 1.13" swe) of new snow overnight to the Upper Cottonwoods. This morning, the snow will continue to be focused around the Cottonwoods and the east benches with heavy snowfall until about 11:00 am. Snow will begin to slow this afternoon and turn more showery. Mountain temperatures are in the single digits °F to the mid-teens °F. Upper elevation winds have decreased and are now blowing west north-west 5-10 mph, gusting into the 20's. Storm totals are impressive:
> Upper LCC: 50-80 inches of new snow with 3.0-6.22" water weight.
> Upper BCC: 25-40 inches of new snow with 1.50-2.61" water weight.
> PC Ridge: 15-30 inches of new snow with 1.0-2.0" water weight.
> ...


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## kingslug (Feb 18, 2021)

Going to be sporty inbounds once they open...can't bomb everything. I can imagine what the people staying up there are going through. Trapped for days..now listening to a bombing run like a B52 strike. I used to wake up to it..flash..then boom. Loved that sound. Patrol must be scary going out there to do it though.


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Going to be sporty inbounds once they open...can't bomb everything. I can imagine what the people staying up there are going through. Trapped for days..now listening to a bombing run like a B52 strike. I used to wake up to it..flash..then boom. Loved that sound. Patrol must be scary going out there to do it though.


I'm sure the anxiety level for some of the cat operators is running much higher than normal as well!!


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## kingslug (Feb 18, 2021)

An old Warren Miller movie..forget the name..starts out with ski patroller in a storm..gets wiped out by an avalanche. Different world out there..


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## FBGM (Feb 18, 2021)

drjeff said:


> I'm sure the anxiety level for some of the cat operators is running much higher than normal as well!!


You try not to shove a Cat in spicy places till AC work is done. I’ve rolled dice before when I was younger cutting new roads across bowls and driving on ridge lines trying to get cornice to fall. Scariest time ever in a cat was in a cycle like this one, not at a resort, middle of nowhere, no cell signal, beacon on in cat. It was a 50/50 type deal.

LCC still closed.

On your OG note, cat and truck hit by natty slide actually up there yesterday on road.


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## kingslug (Feb 18, 2021)

Everyone still locked in?


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 18, 2021)

Hour 61 of interlodge


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## FBGM (Feb 18, 2021)

Interlodge lifted. Some lifts open. People skiing that are up there. Road is still closed


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 18, 2021)

Interesting when I typed that I just read a tweet that was 1 hr old that said interlodge hour 60


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## thetrailboss (Feb 18, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Interesting when I typed that I just read a tweet that was 1 hr old that said interlodge hour 60


They just ended the Interlodge at both Snowbird and Alta.  Snowbird has Gadzoom, Tram (Regulator only), Wilbere, and Chickadee running.  Those who endured the lock-down deserve those turns.  No road yet.


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## kingslug (Feb 18, 2021)

I would definitely have a beacon on.


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## FBGM (Feb 18, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> They just ended the Interlodge at both Snowbird and Alta.  Snowbird has Gadzoom, Tram (Regulator only), Wilbere, and Chickadee running.  Those who endured the lock-down deserve those turns.  No road yet.


Whew! Thank Mormon Jesus Chickadee is running.


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## kingslug (Feb 18, 2021)

Best lift..lol...


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## FBGM (Feb 18, 2021)

If you have IG this guys story is him
Bombing from heli on Argenta Slide path. 






						Watch this story by Tim Rogers on Instagram before it disappears.
					






					www.instagram.com


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## thetrailboss (Feb 19, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Whew! Thank Mormon Jesus Chickadee is running.


Yep!    

Although no night skiing on it this year.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 19, 2021)

Heavy traffic reported in Little Cottonwood Canyon after days-long road closure, interlodge protocol
					

SR-210 through Little Cottonwood Canyon reopened and a record-breaking interlodge protocol at Alta was lifted Thursday.  One day later, the Utah Department of Transportation's Cottonwood canyons




					www.fox13now.com
				




Alta ran out of parking at 8:30am.


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## drjeff (Feb 19, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Heavy traffic reported in Little Cottonwood Canyon after days-long road closure, interlodge protocol
> 
> 
> SR-210 through Little Cottonwood Canyon reopened and a record-breaking interlodge protocol at Alta was lifted Thursday.  One day later, the Utah Department of Transportation's Cottonwood canyons
> ...


Surprised it took that long!


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 19, 2021)

friday during a holiday week after 100" of snow and a 3 day interlodge. CHAOS.


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## kingslug (Feb 19, 2021)

Now..the question is...what is the danger of an inbound slide with all these people flying all over the place. You can't bomb everything. 
Not that I don't wish I was there..cause..I really do...


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## kingslug (Feb 19, 2021)

I would have been lined up at 5Am.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 19, 2021)

didnt gad2 slide last year? def a full avy gear inbounds weekend. i used my avalanche shovel to dig my car out last week. most action it will see all year.


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## kingslug (Feb 19, 2021)

I remember when the Wilbere bowl above Big Emma slid and took out the whole area..ripped trees out. I've seen so many inbound slides there its scary. 
Definitely a full avi gear time now..but I'll bet less than 20% of the people there have it.


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## kingslug (Feb 19, 2021)

What Now: Inbounds Avalanches
					

Four deadly slides at U.S. ski areas last season—the most since 1982—highlight a grim truth: Avalanches know no boundaries.




					www.skimag.com
				




I skied the comma chute the last year it was open..then it was deemed too deadly after an avi death. 
Its going to be a bit scary out there for a while..and the snow storms arent close to being over...
I'll be out there in March...


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## thetrailboss (Feb 19, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Now..the question is...what is the danger of an inbound slide with all these people flying all over the place. You can't bomb everything.
> Not that I don't wish I was there..cause..I really do...



Snowbird has been conservative in opening terrain so far.


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## FBGM (Feb 19, 2021)

I can’t imagine how busy both Bird and Alta will be tomorrow.

To the backcountry I go again tomorrow. Low angle meadow skipping and mid angle trees.


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## Shredmonkey254 (Feb 19, 2021)

FBGM said:


> I can’t imagine how busy both Bird and Alta will be tomorrow.
> 
> To the backcountry I go again tomorrow. Low angle meadow skipping and mid angle trees.


My buddy called me from Alta after skiing today. Waited over 2 hours in line for the first chair and an hour for the 2nd. Only got chowder. Don’t get me wrong, i love going out west but we have it so good here! fairy dust is still falling from the sky. we gonna have some fun!


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## kingslug (Feb 20, 2021)

That would kill me...


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## thetrailboss (Feb 20, 2021)

FBGM said:


> I can’t imagine how busy both Bird and Alta will be tomorrow.
> 
> To the backcountry I go again tomorrow. Low angle meadow skipping and mid angle trees.


We went today to Snowbird.  Left SLC at 6:40 and made the drive in just about an hour--only one slow down.  Liftlines were about what they have been this year--bad.  Mineral Basin not opening until later, and low visibility, forced a lot of skiers and riders to Gad 2 and the lower lifts.  Surprisingly, there was a thin crust on the off-trail surfaces.  A friend who went yesterday told me that they got some brief freezing rain.  All in all, not bad.  Things are filled in nicely now.


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## Shredmonkey254 (Feb 20, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> We went today to Snowbird.  Left SLC at 6:40 and made the drive in just about an hour--only one slow down.  Liftlines were about what they have been this year--bad.  Mineral Basin not opening until later, and low visibility, forced a lot of skiers and riders to Gad 2 and the lower lifts.  Surprisingly, there was a thin crust on the off-trail surfaces.  A friend who went yesterday told me that they got some brief freezing rain.  All in all, not bad.  Things are filled in nicely now.


Today at Sugarbush


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## thetrailboss (Feb 21, 2021)

Shredmonkey254 said:


> Today at SugarbushView attachment 50433


Yep, that is pretty nice.  I was saying to my wife today that a part of me misses Sugarbush.  I don't miss the rain and thaws.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 21, 2021)

Apparently it was Idaho's turn for fatal avalanches this weekend.....









						Snowmobiler killed in Bear Lake County, Idaho avalanche
					

A snowmobile rider died Saturday after being caught in an avalanche in southeastern Idaho — the second in two days in the state.




					www.fox13now.com
				














						Family in Utah and Montana remember snowmobiler killed in Sawtooth Forest, Idaho avalanche
					

Thirty-year-old Andy Jessop of Corvallis, Montana died Friday after he triggered an avalanche while snowmobiling in an area known as Smiley Creek in Idaho's Sawtooth National Forest.




					www.fox13now.com


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## Smellytele (Feb 21, 2021)

Another avy on mt Washington today. Human triggered


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## jimk (Feb 22, 2021)

I finally made my annual pilgrimage to UT and skied Snowbird on Feb 19-21 with my son.  Taking today off.  This was my first lift-served skiing of the season and my body feels it.  Feb 19 we went up real late and had fun skiing from 2-430pm, but i guy told me he started up the canyon that morning at 7am and didn't start skiing until 11.  a lot of pent up demand after avi closure for 2.5 days.
Put in a full day on Feb 20, son had parking reservations and managed to avoid biggest lines by skiing older lifts and skiing opposite of the terrain choices of the crowds.  Mineral had bad viz much of the day, but I caught a great 90 mins of clarity around 12-130PM on empty Baldy chair in great snow. 
Went up Feb 21 from noon to 4pm with nice sunshine.  Son helps me find the smallest lift lines.  It was great.  I'm just happy to be skiing.
Older chairs are slow, but smaller lines.


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## kingslug (Feb 22, 2021)

If your going to start your year ..you picked a good place.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 22, 2021)

Nice pics and report.  Probably skied right by you on Saturday and Sunday and did not even know it.....


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## jimk (Feb 22, 2021)

My son knew one of the victims of the Mill Creek avi, the guy was a fellow employee at the Bird a few years back.  He had guided in Chamonix and was super knowledgeable about backcountry.  Yet the bottom line is they shouldn't have been skiing that area that day.
My son does a fair amount of backcountry skiing in UT, and did quite a bit of it last spring after March 15.  One of his frequent BC companions, the guy he considers his BC mentor, was buried, but dug out and saved in an avi earlier this season.  My son has been very cautious and avoided the BC much of this winter, I hope he keeps thinking like that.

Photo taken 2/21/21, showing small avi slide path on an area just inside resort boundaries at Snowbird called Temptation Chutes (for good reason).  This is view right as exiting Gad 2 chair.  Groomer trail in center is Bananas.  The area they call Gad Boundary with good tree skiing such as Tiger Tail and Red Lens Line has been closed since the big storm cycle last week.

Sorry missed you TB, I usually wear same outfit as my avatar unless warmer day.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 22, 2021)

jimk said:


> My son knew one of the victims of the Mill Creek avi, the guy was a fellow employee at the Bird a few years back.  He had guided in Chamonix and was super knowledgeable about backcountry.  Yet the bottom line is they shouldn't have been skiing that area that day.
> My son does a fair amount of backcountry skiing in UT, and did quite a bit of it last spring after March 15.  One of his frequent BC companions, the guy he considers his BC mentor, was buried, but dug out and saved in an avi earlier this season.  My son has been very cautious and avoided the BC much of this winter, I hope he keeps thinking like that.
> 
> Photo taken 2/21/21, showing small avi slide path on an area just inside resort boundaries at Snowbird called Temptation Chutes (for good reason).  This is view right as exiting Gad 2 chair.  Groomer trail in center is Bananas.  The area they call Gad Boundary with good tree skiing such as Tiger Tail and Red Lens Line has been closed since the big storm cycle last week.View attachment 50444
> ...


No worries.  I have to laugh because I think I might have seen you (or someone dressed like that) and it stood out because I wondered if the person was an instructor based on the colors.

Road to Provo and that entire side of Little Cloud has been roped most of the season because of the avi danger.


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## ss20 (Feb 23, 2021)

Nasty situation on Mount Washington- https://mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/forecast/#/presidential-range



> Avalanche danger remains elevated today, with human-triggering of wind slabs likely in steep terrain where wind has drifted snow overnight. These wind slab avalanches will be large enough to bury a person. Natural avalanches are possible on easterly aspects in the steepest terrain, particularly across the Headwall of Tuckerman Ravine, due to extreme northwest wind drifting snow last night and this morning. Avalanche danger is Considerable today. Cautious route-finding is essential due to dangerous avalanche conditions.





> The nickel and diming that has occurred since then has left plenty of snow in the alpine fetch zones to build large and dangerous wind slabs. The icy bed surface that formed last Tuesday has proven to be a poor bonding surface for new snow in some areas with good bonding in others. This spatial variability should have you carefully considering your exposure level and group travel practices in the terrain today, even as wind diminishes. These slabs are likely to be on the firmer side (1F/1F+) in many places due to higher wind speeds, but recent and continued wind loading or a human trigger may tip the scales past what the weak layers below can handle.  A very large (D3) avalanche in Tuckerman Ravine (Chute, Center Bowl, Sluice?) isn’t out of the question.


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## kingslug (Feb 23, 2021)

Tux in early March..sketchy...


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## FBGM (Feb 24, 2021)

Lots of powder panic out here on the weekends. I’ve been avoiding the canyons much of the year. Looks like bird is skiing well.

Been skiing Vail City Canhole side past few weekends with new girl I’m hanging with (literally the only reason I’m stepping foot onto the place). And I have free passes - which Vail makes next to impossible to use. I lost my shit on some poor $10/hr ticket window dude. Felt bad. But vails fault.

Sending it to Idaho BC Friday and Sun Valley in bounds Saturday. Curious to poke around sawtooths on my skis.

Hope Bird stays open late - gonna use all my Ikonic days for spring there.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 25, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Lots of powder panic out here on the weekends. I’ve been avoiding the canyons much of the year. Looks like bird is skiing well.
> 
> Been skiing Vail City Canhole side past few weekends with new girl I’m hanging with (literally the only reason I’m stepping foot onto the place). And I have free passes - which Vail makes next to impossible to use. I lost my shit on some poor $10/hr ticket window dude. Felt bad. But vails fault.
> 
> ...


If it keeps snowing, they will be open.  It was good last weekend, but crowded.  The new norm I guess.


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## FBGM (Mar 1, 2021)

Ski porn good vibes from weekend travels. Keep stoke up


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