# 4K-itis



## Stephen (Apr 14, 2005)

I'm suffering bad. I need to bag a peak. When do the peaks clear of snow and ice? I know my limits, and I don't have the gear for those conditions.

-Stephen


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## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2005)

Stephen said:
			
		

> I'm suffering bad. I need to bag a peak. When do the peaks clear of snow and ice? I know my limits, and I don't have the gear for those conditions.
> 
> -Stephen



Snow and ice are only part of the problem.  MUD is the big problem  :x ....it will be some time before that clears up...maybe Memorial Day weekend or later depending upon the weather.

I think that the GMC was asking that people wait 'til May 1st before venturing out if not later...


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## blacknblue (Apr 14, 2005)

Yes, I would agree that Memorial Day is about when you want to start hiking up 4Ks, as a rule.  It'd be a good idea to read hiking reports of people going up to get a general idea of conditions.  You want to be careful it's not too wet/muddy, because that will only destroy the trails more, especially if going off trail or beside it to keep your feet dry.
I always found Mt. Abe in VT to be a good early hike b/c it's relatively short so you worry about muddy feet as much, has a lot of rock to scramble on, a southern approach (less snow), not much water on the trail, and great views (and a good swimming hole if you're brave!).


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## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2005)

blacknblue said:
			
		

> (and a good swimming hole if you're brave!).



Ya gotta love Bristol Falls (if that is what you are referring to  :wink: )!!!!   :beer:


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## MichaelJ (Apr 14, 2005)

Even something as far south as the Tripyramids had one to two feet of snow up top last spring.

But if it doesn't have to be a 4K, how are the conditions on Monadnock?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2005)

MichaelJ said:
			
		

> Even something as far south as the Tripyramids had one to two feet of snow up top last spring.
> 
> But if it doesn't have to be a 4K, how are the conditions on Monadnock?



I did Monadnock during the last weekend/second to last in April of last year (Pumpelly Trail) and it was great!!    

From what I've seen in Southern NH, not much snow...none in many places.


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## Charlie Schuessler (Apr 14, 2005)

In the past, I've found the Franconia Ridge area clears by the middle of May.


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## ctenidae (Apr 14, 2005)

4K, schmore-K. Beat this guy:
http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwo...ne=load-of-good--clean-fun-had-name_page.html

Just don't forget the detergent.


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## MtnMagic (Apr 14, 2005)

The8re:
I get to hike almost every day of the week in the Whites. There is a lot of winter left on the 4k's with 3'+ of snow at the higher elevations. Heck, spring skiing at Tucks is just getting going with some fine corn snow. Isn't it about time to splurge for gaiters and snowshoes and a good traction device(G-10's)! It'll last you every fall, winter, and spring for many, many years. 

Why not go up to Tucks? The trail is certainly barebootable and well packed. You get to watch a show after the workout hiking up, get the muscles in tone for other spring hikes and you get a jump start on a summer tan! 

If you wish company just send me pm. I haven't stopped hiking yet.
:wink:


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## Caleb (Apr 14, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> 4K, schmore-K. Beat this guy:
> http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwo...ne=load-of-good--clean-fun-had-name_page.html
> 
> Just don't forget the detergent.



hey anyone..how much does a stone weigh?


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## TenPeaks (Apr 15, 2005)

1 stone = 14 pounds

A 6 stone washing machine = 84 pounds

The heaviest pack I ever carried was 70lbs. over 8 miles (round trip). I can sympathize with what that guy went through.


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## ctenidae (Apr 15, 2005)

84 pounds of ungainly washing machine is not an easy haul. 70 pounds in a nice pack, even for 8 miles, is a handful. The most I ever had to carry was about 50, but that was for 9 days. There's nothing like that light feeling you get when you drop the pack. Like walking on air for a bit.

Sorry I don't have much to add on the subject of 4K'ers- I've only hit the Tripyramids, and that was in July.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 15, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> There's nothing like that light feeling you get when you drop the pack. Like walking on air for a bit.



Yep, have had that feeling before  :wink:


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## Mike P. (Apr 15, 2005)

You could do Wachusetts twice  :lol: 

Much depends on spring snows, the flooding rain we got here fell as what at 4,000 feet?  Also a key is if it gets below freezing at night as continous melting is better than thaw/melt/freeze cycles.

Some years Mother's Day is clear except between 3800+ & treeline, but I've encountered snow on F-Ridge south of Little Hatstack in early (7th or 8th) June.  High wooded ridges are the last to go besides Ravine floors  (F-ridge between Liberty & LH, Twinway between South Twin & Guyot & near Zealand, Top of Tripyramids,  Garfield Ridge)

What gear do you need now?  snowshoes but should be able to get away with smaller ones, crampons don't weigh too much.  I'm going next weekend & am exicted I get lighten the load as my I won't need as much clothing & wind gear (Kinsmans & Cannonballs) needed for a Presidential or F-Ridge trip trip in January  :beer:


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## Charlie Schuessler (Apr 15, 2005)

Wondering around the Franconia Range a number of years ago in April & early May is the reason we puchased hiking crampons...then we started using them more often as we hiked further into and finally all through the winter months...the rubber tip protectors make a big difference when storing them in the packs...


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## bigbog (Apr 16, 2005)

..4k...??,
 I'm not sure about the 4k Stephen, but...I just might be mistaken, but I seem to remember the Bigelows (ME) as being snow-free as of a week ago...

$.01


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## Skier75 (Apr 18, 2005)

Well, UK and I were just up to Franconia area this weekend and starte out on the Trail near Cannon and were not quite prepared, which was unsual for us, we are usually quite prepared.  :-?  It wasn't real bad, but if we had our stabilicers with us we would have been fine.  We hooked up with a few TT'ers we usually hike with, and they said, it was a good thing we didn't try to continue with the hike, cause the higher up they went the worse off it was.

We only went about 3/4 mile up the trail when I decided, I didn't like the looks of trying to get back down, besides, I didn't want to hold anyone up that wanted to do more. The trail was packed down so bare booting was fine, except the fact that it was slippery without crampons, stabilicers, or snowshoes. The warm weather and hard pack turned the trail into ice with a little soft snow here and there. A ranger told us that by mid-day we could have been post-holeing by then. I'm glad I changed my mind. UK could've gone without me, but he decided not to either. What a beautiful weekend for hiking though, there were quite a few people out. 

I'm not sure how much longer it will take to clear the trails of the hard pack ice, but I would recommend some type of device for the slippery conditions.  BTW early Memorial Day weekend is about the time for black fly season. We know, cause the past two years that's what we ran into at that time of year, unless that doesn't bother you. It does me, I get bit up pretty bad,   so I won't be hiking for a while.  Good luck and be careful.


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## sp1936 (Apr 20, 2005)

Passaconaway had well over a foot of snow most of the way up on Saturday, April 9. It will be a while before it's gone.

BTW, it was a great hike, snowshoes all the way, with conditions becoming a little challenging on the descent as the snow softened. #36.

Steve


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## Mike P. (Apr 20, 2005)

Backcountry conditions as of 4/20 show a foot at Lonesome Lake & more at Zealand & Carter Notch huts, in checking the march summary at mountwashington.org, March was colder than normal with more snowfall than average too.

No snow at PNVC or Highland Center & 1/3 of Shelbourne ski trail (the ski trail that runs near Tuckerman Ravine Trail) is now closed due to incomplete cover - don't think I would take it tomean completely bare.


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## smitty77 (Apr 20, 2005)

MichaelJ said:
			
		

> But if it doesn't have to be a 4K, how are the conditions on Monadnock?



Drove through Jaffrey yesterday and it looked clear on the summit cone.  Don't know what it's like in the trees though....

Smitty


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## Mike P. (Apr 20, 2005)

Recent post on VFTT via pumpelly showed no snow but some ice but not treacherous to speople used to snow & ice.  Pure summer hikers may find it unsettling, if for anything the fact that all this summer weather down low still does not equal summer on the hills.


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## MichaelJ (Apr 21, 2005)

A couple years ago I did Monadnock on May 1 via the Pumpelly Trail. It was warm (nay, hot) on the ridges, but every time the trail dove into a spot of trees there was a foot of snow and ice. Wonderful moments of a/c. No special gear needed though the gaiters were appreciated.


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## Mike P. (Apr 25, 2005)

*Bad News for non-snow 4's*

Good news, Morgan & Percival south of Whites are fun & virtually snow free

Bad news, It's going to be a while for 4K's based on Saturday Trip up Kinsmans.  Snow on Lonesome Lake was significant (10-12inches) but easy well below the hut I'd guess around 2300 or 2400 feet

On Fishin Jimmy wet, snow & ie increasing the higher you get near Kinsman JCT I'd say close to 2 feet from area above view & across KRT, some trail markers were about hip or waist high.   These usually are around eye level on the trees.  Saturday's rain started as snow & went from sleet & freezing rain to rain,  I would not be surprised if they get some snow at higher elevations this week either.

Unless things change a lot, I'd guess that you won't get up a 4K peak without snow until after Mother's Day.  Whiteface might be first but doing loop over Rollins Trail will be snowbound longer.

Sorry folks,   don't kill the messenger, flaming I guess would be ok


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## SilentCal (Apr 25, 2005)

Looks like we may have some mucky trails for the Flags Weekend.  Oh well....


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## zowi420 (Apr 27, 2005)

I am going to hike from the Flume in FNSP to the Willey house in Crawford notch, via the AT, next week, before the bugs get too bad.  I was allowing two days, but everyone says three.  It is about 29 miles?  Has anyone done this recently?


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## MtnMagic (Apr 27, 2005)

I not only haven't done your proposed route recently, I haven't it all. Please post your trip report after you've completed it. Looking forward to reading/doing it!


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## MichaelJ (Apr 28, 2005)

Piecing things together in my head (without the benefit of a White Mountain Guide at the moment), I would say you're looking at typically 6 hours of hiking from Galehead to Zealand alone. So if you're going to try to get from Garfield Ridge all the way to Crawford Notch, that'll be between 10 and 12 hours, in ideal conditions.

The Flume all the way to Garfield Ridge is also a considerably long way with even more ups and downs and of course a lot of exposure. The trail from Lafayette to Garfield Ridge (and on as far as Galehead) is very rough.

So while in theory an extremely strong, fit hiker packing very lightly could do it in two days in perfect conditions, I do not believe this is the time of year for it. You will not be able to pack lightly and there will be places where there is still a significant amount of snow on the ground (generally between 3000' and treeline right now). Plus, you won't be able to enjoy any of it; you'll have to keep moving, and fairly quickly.

Take the extra day. The problem is that there aren't places to stay to break this trip up nicely - the ideal stops are just after you start (Liberty Springs) and just before the end (Ethan Pond).

So my recommendation is this ... start late and just go as far as Liberty Springs campsite. Next morning enjoy the ridge on your way to Garfield Ridge. Then get an early start on the third day and go as far as you can. The trail is perfectly flat from Zealand all the way to Ethan Pond, so you can make good time. If darkness catches you, stop at Ethan Pond Shelter and it's a quick trip (couple hours?) out from there first thing in the morning.


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## blacknblue (Apr 28, 2005)

I agree with MichaelJ.  It's feasible in two days if you want in the summertime, but with the snow conditions, it would be almost impossible right now.  I would also suggest taking an evening to scoot up to Liberty Springs, then hitting the ridge the following morning; early mornings on Franc Ridge are phenomenal!  From Lafayette to Galehead Hut is deceptively rugged--the trail maps won't do it justice as it's constant up and down over big, wet boulders (covered in snow right now).  From Galehead, once you grunt up South Twin, it's fairly smooth sailing all the way to Crawford Notch, although, with fine views overlooking Zealand Notch and around Ethan Pond.  Guyot Shelter, .7 miles from the AT is a great place to crash for the night, too, albeit adding 1.4 miles to your hike.
Let us know how it goes, whichever way you do it!


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## zowi420 (Apr 28, 2005)

It is going to rain here all weekend, all this warm rain will put a good dent in whatever snow is left in the woods.  Looks like I'll shoot for May 6-8.  I'm bringing my well-behaved dog, which makes huts and shelters out of the question!  I just throw my tarp down well off the trail.  I am a very light traveller.  Thanx for all your responses!


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## Mike P. (Apr 28, 2005)

Where is "here" that it is going to rain all weekend?

As of this Morning they received 19.4 inches of snow on Mt. Washington.  Last Saturday afternoon across the street from your starting point, the woods were full of snow below Lonesome Lake Hut.

Will you be bringing crampons & snowshoes?  I did 98% of your trip several years ago Memorial Day weekend. Are you going up Flume Slide or all white blaze?  I would expect barring some very unseasonably warm weather you will find snow below Liberty Spring Campsite.  Between Liberty Spring junction with F-Ridge & Little Haystack, that did not receive the travel that Liberty Spring or the higher Franconia's received, you will find significant snow here.

From Little Haystack to Skookumchuck Trail this will be the easiest part until you get near Zealand Hut,  After that you descend on a section of the Garfield Ridge trail that saw very little winter use.  (we were somewhat fortunate it was so cold when my friend & I did it the feet of snow we were on was solid)  This ridge is also notorious for blowdowns.  The trail should be well packed from the top of Garfield to Garfield campsite, then it's mor PUD's & lightly traveled trail until you get to Gale River trail.  

Most snow on this trip will very likely be found on the Twinway bewteen South Twin & Guyot as this 2.2 miles of trail never drops below 4380 feet & most of it runs in fir trees which keep much of the sun off of it.  After some bare rock on Guyot, you're back on another wooded ridge, this one will be a mix of  snowy & muddy getting better as you descend Zealcliff. after that mud should be the order of teh day.

Doable in two nights?  Probably if you make good time, can enjoy the views while you walk &  start early.  The first day you could make camp somewhere near Garfield as the couple of miles above treeline should have the best footing above 3,000 feet.  The next day with an early start you could get near Zealand Falls.  Day three is a mostly muddy walk out to 302.

Making the trip without snowshoes & crampons (or at least snowshoes with an aggressive cleat as some spots on Garfield Ridge will be steep & snow or ice covered) is taking more of a gamble then I would take.  If you get cold weather so the snowpack is frozen, you'd be okay (except where it's icy) while warm days makes leaving extra clothing at home appealing but snowshoes more vital & black flies more likely.  

You would have to be just about a machine to posthole the 1.7 wooded miles of F-Ridge, the miles of Garfield Ridge & a few Twinway miles in two nights.  (if you are it still wouldn't be fun)


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## MARI (Apr 28, 2005)

*4 K -itis*

Hey, I too have been bitten by the 4K bug, and I want to get out this weekend. Magic, do you need crampons or snow shoes to get up Tuckermans this time of year? Maybe I'll do some warming up on the southern hills like Cardigan or Welch and Dickey... Tomorrow is a day off, what should I do? Monadnock? Has anyone been over to Chocurua?  :-?


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## MtnMagic (Apr 28, 2005)

Hi!

Between the cat being driven up and the rain/snow, it would be wise to bring a traction device, be it snowshoes or crampons, just in case. Usually it is bare bootable this time of year. Tucks should be spectacular to visit this weekend. Enjoy the show!


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## MichaelJ (Apr 29, 2005)

If I hadn't hurt my back a few days ago I'd be out there this weekend, too.

Here's hoping it's better quickly. Two weekends from now I have a 50 mile bike ride (you know you want to sponsor me with a donation to the Brain Tumor Society!) and then the hiking season starts in earnest.  8)


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## MtnMagic (Apr 29, 2005)

It snowed up to 7" in the higher elevations last night. The Presis and Franconia Ridge have that beautiful brilliant white look against the blue sky!
Don't be fooled by rain and 60* temperatures. There is certainly a lot of winter weather left in the mountains with snow depths up to 3' and not just in Tuckerman's Ravine.


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## MichaelJ (Apr 30, 2005)

Waaah!!! I hate having a hurt back!


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