# Catamount Condos and hotel



## ScottySkis (Jan 22, 2014)

http://www.berkshiremtnclub.com/

I like the hill and wish them luck but do they really believe this will work. This could put them in NELSPA and i dont want that. 

*A NEW CATAMOUNT RESORT*

*Luxury Whole & Fractional Ownership Available*

         The Berkshire Mountain Club, located on the slopes of Catamount  Resort in Columbia County, bordering the Berkshires, will provide a  unique opportunity for you to own luxury whole or fractional residences  with the amenities, services and benefits of a 4 star hotel. Combine  full property management and travel opportunities around the world and  your future vacations will never be the same again. Fractional prices  start approximately in the mid $50,000s.

_The Berkshire Mountain Club is located in direct proximity of  multiple ski lifts and is the beginning of a whole new base area  development plan for Catamount Ski Resort._


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## bzrperfspec77 (Jan 22, 2014)

Scotty said:


> http://www.berkshiremtnclub.com/
> 
> I like the hill and wish them luck but do they really believe this will work. This could put them in NELSPA and i dont want that.
> 
> ...




When you say "They", who do you mean? The group doing this is not just "Catamount". I'm sure they are offering up the land/space but its not just them fronting the bill to get this off the ground. 

If it fails (which I don't see it failing), the ski area will still be there.


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## ss20 (Jan 22, 2014)

bzrperfspec77 said:


> When you say "They", who do you mean? The group doing this is not just "Catamount". I'm sure they are offering up the land/space but its not just them fronting the bill to get this off the ground.
> 
> If it fails (which I don't see it failing), the ski area will still be there.



"They" are Catamount.  Here is their message on Catamount's FB:
Berkshire Mountain Club: _The location of the Berkshire Mountain Club will be adjacent to the Glade Chair Lift. Once our office is completed *we will be unveiling a 10 year master plan for Catamount.* The new improvements and renovations will balance nicely with the addition of the Berkshire Mountain Club. If you are in the area we welcome you to stop by our office inside the Main Base Lodge to answer any questions you may have._

The Mountain Club doesn't own Catamount, but they're a big part of it.  Here's the list of developers, taken from the club's website.
http://www.berkshiremtnclub.com/developers.html
See the last 2 names?  

Seems that the Club will take control and destroy Catamount (add more snowmaking and groom everything).  I don't think this will happen overnight.  Give it ten years and I'm sure Catamount will be a smaller Jiminy Peak.  The Mountain Club will kick out current management so they can run the show completely.  

I'm ordering a brochure so I can get more details.  Will report back once I receive it.


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## ss20 (Jan 22, 2014)

It will be located behind the Glade chair.  Kind of an odd spot.  Wedged between the hill and the snowmaking pond.


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## 4aprice (Jan 22, 2014)

A new trend?  Camelback is in the process of building their new hotel.  450 rooms and indoor waterpark, all slopeside.  Don't think it will spell doom for Catamount.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## ScottySkis (Jan 22, 2014)

4aprice said:


> A new trend?  Camelback is in the process of building their new hotel.  450 rooms and indoor waterpark, all slopeside.  Don't think it will spell doom for Catamount.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



But maybe 10% of amount of people that go to go Cambleback on weekend that go to Catamont crowds wise. . I like it the way it is a local hill.


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## gmcunni (Jan 22, 2014)

i won't be buying in


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## abc (Jan 22, 2014)

With the memory still fresh of the real estate bubble, and many mountain getting burned in their real estate centric operation model, why so many local hills jump right back onto the real estate band wagon is totally beyond me. Who do they think will be their potential condo buyers? Or, who are they kidding but themselves? 

Hills in marginal snow zone can't hope to attract buyers of their condo no matter how much granite counter top they put in...


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## bzrperfspec77 (Jan 23, 2014)

I could be wrong, but I would assume a ski area and the GROUP that is doing this project has put some thought into it. 

This area is really close to the Berkshires where people love to retreat to. Instead of the New Yorkers/PA/NJ people (Please don't offense to that, I know how people take offense to many things on here...) buying a house or a condo outside of the ski area, now they can purchase it right next to it. Plus they don't have to come up just for the skiing. Plenty to do in the Spring/Summer/Fall. Not just skiining


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## Abominable (Jan 23, 2014)

The mountain is leasing the land to the developers to develop the time share, so I imagine that will be operated somewhat independently of the mountain itself, and the mountain won't sink if the project does.  The developers will also build the mountain a new lodge as part of the deal.

The state has also pledged a considerable sum to the project: http://www.columbiapaper.com/index.php/the-news/3888-by-diane-valden

From a bit of google, I think this has been off again / on again for the past decade.  Now there's no turning back.  I'm sure they expect 90% occupancy / sales, but for me, the only reason I ski Catamount is precisely because I can get there and back in a day from NYC.  If I'm staying overnight, I'm heading north (or Catskills).  But it's a pretty reasonable family trip for NYC / Westchester people, and the mountain does seem under utilized to me.  I've only been twice, but New Year's Day and MLK Saturday were both very uncrowded.  There also seems to be quite a bit of unused terrain in between the two "peaks;" I wonder if they've ever considered cutting another trail or two in the middle.  It's steep but very tight in there (looking from the chair), but I bet there's a couple of good lines in there when there is snow.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 23, 2014)

Abominable said:


> From a bit of google, for me, the only reason I ski Catamount is precisely because I can get there and back in a day from NYC.  If I'm staying overnight, I'm heading north (or Catskills).  But it's a pretty reasonable family trip for NYC / Westchester people, and the mountain does seem under utilized to me.  I've only been twice, but New Year's Day and MLK Saturday were both very uncrowded.


Not much difference in drive time between Catamount & the Catskills from NYC. At least not from where I am in Brooklyn. Both are roughly 3 hours. Skied there for the first time in over 40 years this past Sun. They had a good crowd.


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## Abominable (Jan 23, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Not much difference in drive time between Catamount & the Catskills from NYC. At least not from where I am in Brooklyn. Both are roughly 3 hours. Skied ther for the first time in over 40 years this past Sun. They had a good crowd.



I haven't done a day trip to the Cats in awhile, but I can get to Catamount in less than two hours (say, 1:50) from Atlantic Ave. and it's a much straighter shot not having to go across the city or cross the Hudson anywhere.  If I leave my house at six, I am parked, booted and online for 8:30 chair.  I feel the the Cats always take 2:30 plus, and it's much easier to run into traffic and other problems, especially coming home.

It's also toll-free*, not that that matters a whole lot.

*unless you fly by NYSP on the Taconic doing 80 mph.  Then you pay a significant toll.

But I agree that if you're willing to drive the extra miles, Hunter probably offers much more for not too much of an extra haul.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 23, 2014)

You can get to either the Catskills or Catamount using the Taconic. The exit for the Rhinecliff bridge is quite a bit south of the exit for Catamount which would take you over to Belleayre. Even the Rip Van Winkle bridge, which would take you over to Windham, is south of the exit for Catamount. The best time I can make to the Claverack/Hillsdale exit, which is the exit for Catamount is 2 1/2 hours with no traffic. To get to Catamount is another 15 minutes from the exit. If I go up the NYS Thruway the Catskills are even less driving time than going up the Taconic. I rarely ski the Catskills or Catamount so it doesn't make much difference to me. I often stop at the Chief Martindale diner for cod fish which is right off the Claverack/Hillsdale exit so that's why I'm so familiar with the drive time. The cod fish this weekend was exceptional. That's about the halfway point for me going to central VT. I'm located right off Jamaica Bay so to get to Atlantic Ave. & the BQE is a 1/2 hour alone


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## ss20 (Jan 23, 2014)

bzrperfspec77 said:


> I could be wrong, but I would assume a ski area and the GROUP that is doing this project has put some thought into it.
> 
> This area is really close to the Berkshires where people love to retreat to. Instead of the New Yorkers/PA/NJ people (Please don't offense to that, I know how people take offense to many things on here...) buying a house or a condo outside of the ski area, now they can purchase it right next to it. Plus they don't have to come up just for the skiing. Plenty to do in the Spring/Summer/Fall. Not just skiining



There are many smaller NELSAP ski areas that have gone out of business because of developing real estate.  Ascutney and Tenney are prime examples, and they're 2x larger than Catamount. It doesn't matter how much thought you put into it.  Look at all the bonehead ASC and Powdr moves.  I'm sure a lot of thought went into those, but they still didn't work out.  

If I were to spend 50,000$ on a timeshare at a ski mountain, I wouldn't want to ski at a 1,000 footer that has no summer activities.  There would need to be another big draw for me to shell out the 50,000$.  Yes, the Berkshires has other stuff to do in the warmer months, but it's all daytrip stuff.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2014)

I assumed they had about as much money as Brodie. learn something new everyday.


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## mister moose (Jan 23, 2014)

ss20 said:


> There are many smaller NELSAP ski areas that have gone out of business because of developing real estate. Ascutney and Tenney are prime examples, and they're 2x larger than Catamount. It doesn't matter how much thought you put into it. Look at all the bonehead ASC and Powdr moves. I'm sure a lot of thought went into those, but they still didn't work out.
> 
> If I were to spend 50,000$ on a timeshare at a ski mountain, I wouldn't want to ski at a 1,000 footer that has no summer activities. There would need to be another big draw for me to shell out the 50,000$. Yes, the Berkshires has other stuff to do in the warmer months, but it's all daytrip stuff.



Don't underestimate the summer draw of Stockbridge, Lee, Lenox, and Tanglewood.  Also, it isn't real estate development that did some mountains in, it was building the wrong real estate.  Selling real estate is a huge source of income for a ski resort if it is done correctly.  Not that I'm saying it's easy.


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## ScottySkis (Jan 23, 2014)

mister moose said:


> Don't underestimate the summer draw of Stockbridge, Lee, Lenox, and Tanglewood.  Also, it isn't real estate development that did some mountains in, it was building the wrong real estate.  Selling real estate is a huge source of income for a ski resort if it is done correctly.  Not that I'm saying it's easy.



I get that at hills that are have crowds coming. This place as is doesn't have crowds. Will it work I hope so but don't see trails and terrain here attracting people that want this stuff.


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## abc (Jan 23, 2014)

bzrperfspec77 said:


> I could be wrong, but I would assume a ski area and the GROUP that is doing this project has put some thought into it.


I don't doubt there's been SOME thoughts, though I suspect containing a large dose of wishful thinking.

Let's see what's the potential draw, and drawback:

- The skiing: ok, it's a 1000' hill, half of southern Vermont such as Mount Snow, about the same as Jiminy. Not bad, really, on that stat. But what about snow falls? And length of season? Snow-making? We all know it's not that great. So what's the hidden agenda? More snow making? That'll cost money. So how are they going to do it? Support by the real estate sale? Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

- The non-skiing stuff: Great Barrington is right there, and hopping! But if that appeals to you, do you rather get a condo on the hill outside the center of happening and drive into the village? Or do you rather get a place so you can walk to the village for Sunday brunch but drive 10 minutes to ski? Don't forget, if you stay in the condo on the hill, 80% of the condos will be empty in the summer and you'll be the few rare souls in the whole complex! Is that an appealing environment to spend your summer weekends? Also, your neighbors will be mostly New Yorkers you want to get away from. Or do you rather find a place near the village so you have real neighbors who are more likely locals and get you involve in the local scene?  

- Day trip distance from New York: Is that a blessing, or a curse? I, like a few others mentioned earlier, think it's a negative.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 23, 2014)




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## SKI-3PO (Feb 23, 2014)

Looks like Kaatskill Mtn Club at Hunter or any other generic ski area timeshare hotel.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 23, 2014)

SKI-3PO said:


> Looks like Kaatskill Mtn Club at Hunter or any other generic ski area timeshare hotel.


The lady I was talking to in the lodge said they were not timeshares.


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## SKI-3PO (Feb 23, 2014)

Fractional ownership = same thing to me


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 23, 2014)

I crash in Rhinebeck when I ski Platty, and I see this place is less than 1 hour from there?  Worth a look, or is Platty much better terrain wise?


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## steamboat1 (Feb 23, 2014)

abc said:


> I don't doubt there's been SOME thoughts, though I suspect containing a large dose of wishful thinking.
> 
> Let's see what's the potential draw, and drawback:
> 
> - The skiing: ok, it's a 1000' hill, half of southern Vermont such as Mount Snow, about the same as Jiminy. Not bad, really, on that stat. But what about snow falls? And length of season? Snow-making? We all know it's not that great. So what's the hidden agenda? More snow making? That'll cost money. So how are they going to do it? Support by the real estate sale? Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?


I'm no expert on Catamount. Skied there for the 1st time in eons this year. From what I saw a majority of the major trails are covered top to bottom with tower mounted fan guns. Seemed to have plenty of fire power. How much they use that system or if they have an adequate water supply is something I don't know but the infrastructure seemed to be there already.

I highly doubt there is much of a difference in natural snowfall or elevation between Jiminy & Catamount.


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## lerops (Feb 24, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> I crash in Rhinebeck when I ski Platty, and I see this place is less than 1 hour from there?  Worth a look, or is Platty much better terrain wise?



Absolutely. There really is no comparison, that is given same conditions.


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## spiderpig (Feb 24, 2014)

I don't understand why they have chosen 1/5 fractional ownership, but whatever floats your boat, I guess. The week you would have still rotates every year, but not consecutively.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 24, 2014)

spiderpig said:


> I don't understand why they have chosen 1/5 fractional ownership, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.



We looked into a 1/4 share on Cape Cod for the summer.  I quickly realized that it sounded a lot better than reality.  If your August week was the last week in August (when school has started), you would only wind up with one peak summer week (July-August) that you could actually use.  This would happen every fourth year.  The ski season is similarly short in duration and they are offering smaller fractional ownership.  And who would want to pony up that amount of cash to only be able to use their condo during school vacation week only every fifth year?

The place we looked at tried to lure you in by renting out your unit when you could not use it.  I ran the numbers, and it made no financial sense.  You were better off just paying to stay at a hotel or condo on the week(s) you would actually use it.


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## spiderpig (Feb 25, 2014)

Jackson Gore at Okemo allows owners to stay in any unit for just housekeeping costs if the rooms are less than 85% booked, so that helps get more use out of a fractional ownership. I don't know if they're offering that deal at Catamount. My family puts their two quarters in the rental pool and say it comes out about breaking even every year, based on paying property taxes and fees, but that would clearly be harder with 1/5 ownership.


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## lerops (Feb 25, 2014)

spiderpig said:


> Jackson Gore at Okemo allows owners to stay in any unit for just housekeeping costs if the rooms are less than 85% booked, so that helps get more use out of a fractional ownership. I don't know if they're offering that deal at Catamount. *My family puts their two quarters in the rental pool and say it comes out about breaking even every year, based on paying property taxes and fees,* but that would clearly be harder with 1/5 ownership.



Do you mean at JG? Breakeven includes rental income, fees and taxes, so you come ahead because you end up staying for free?


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## spiderpig (Feb 25, 2014)

lerops said:


> Do you mean at JG? Breakeven includes rental income, fees and taxes, so you come ahead because you end up staying for free?



Exactly, but free plus set-up/housekeeping fees, which is around $80 for a weekend.


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## ScottySkis (Feb 25, 2014)

weel season pass price of 300$ would probably go up once condos are up. Hopefully better c snowmaking comes with that.


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## Snowlover (Feb 28, 2014)

*Oh no  Catamount*

http://blog.ctnews.com/snowzone/2014/02/28/catamount-going-upscale-with-new-hotel/


Catamount = FUTURE Jiminy peak south

Say goodbye to 20 dollar monday tickets and powder.

From the article
"Hopefully, the upscale hotel and any future development at Catamount won’t take away from its down home charm and … affordability"

Yeah...good luck with that  They'll have to spend an absolute fortune upgrading their lifts and snowmaking to support the resort. I find it strange they didn't do that first, then the hotel/condo stuff.


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## Tin (Feb 28, 2014)

It was discussed when you were in timeout.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2014)

lerops said:


> *Absolutely. There really is no comparison*, that is given same conditions.



Meaning.......... Platty has much better terrain than Catamount, or Catamount has much better terrain than Platty?


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## ScottySkis (Feb 28, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Meaning.......... Platty has much better terrain than Catamount, or Catamount has much better terrain than Platty?





Platty mich better Catamount loczl hill couple nice diamond trails snow making different old guns cheap tickets no much crowds , slighty more crosed then Ppatty on loildays.


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## spiderpig (Mar 5, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> http://blog.ctnews.com/snowzone/2014/02/28/catamount-going-upscale-with-new-hotel/
> 
> 
> Catamount = FUTURE Jiminy peak south
> ...



Well, they have swapped out two lifts in the past few years, one a double for a quad. A high-speed is always welcome, though.


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## ss20 (Mar 8, 2014)

New terrain coming with condo thingy as well!!!

I snapped this in the lodge.
Yellow is existing lifts, blue lines are new lifts, light blue trails will be new trails.


This is very interesting.  The first (and biggest) part of the expansion is in the Sidewinder area. Half a dozen new trails.  Measured in Google Earth, the lift will be about 2,700 feet and 600 vertical feet (similar profile to Mohawk's summit lifts).  Solid intermediate cruising.  The base of the lift is 20 feet lower than the current base area, so theoretically Catamount could claim an increase in vertical.  New base lodge?  Not shown on the map, but a definite possibility.  A parking lot at the base of the lift is shown.

The two trails above Holiday are interesting.  Catapult Jr and Turnpike Jr?  Guess the old T-bar line is also coming on the map.

Hard to see, but a new lift and trail are to the left of the current Meadows Triple.  Kinda pointless, imo.

The nice ladies at the presentation table answered my nerdy questions.  As a whole, this is a ten year plan, starting with the condo thing.  The club will start selling rooms this fall, construction starting in spring 2015, and opening in summer 2016 (all preliminary).  No detailed information on the new lifts yet.  

I think it would've been better to build the new terrain first and then hotel, but the hotel is what will probably finance the new trails and lifts so I understand.  

This makes the whole condo ordeal much easier to swallow.  The new trail capacity will allow them to keep stuff ungroomed (I hope). They should really be advertising the terrain expansion more.  It's been stated in this thread time and time again- Catamount is a ski area.  People don't want condos at ski areas with 1,000 vertical and 120 acres.  200 acres and I'm sure a lot more people would get out their checkbooks.


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## ss20 (Oct 23, 2014)

Swwwweeeettttt.  Burn it to the ground.

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=173



> Catamount Hotel Running Into Zoning Roadblocks
> Wednesday, October 22, 2014, NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com
> 
> At a September 25, 2014 meeting of the Copake Zoning Board of Appeals, a 2 to 2 vote resulted in the group not granting a special use permit for the Berkshire Mountain Club at Catamount. As a result, locals are now asking the board to reconsider their decision. According to the Hudson Register-Star, dozens attended a pro-Catamount meeting on Monday, October 20.
> ...



I do like that last line though.


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## ss20 (Aug 4, 2015)

Well... nothing official yet, but a couple things I've noticed.

1. The Berkshire Mountain Club Facebook, which had been updated once or twice a week since it's inception, has gone unupdated since June 7.  

2. The Berkshire Mountain Club logo at the bottom left of Catamount's winter site is gone.

3. The supposed construction start date of Spring 2015 has come and gone.  

4. Still no way to buy any ownership on the website.


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 7, 2015)

At this point you have to wonder if it's going to happen.


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## manhattanskier (Aug 18, 2015)

I hope this does not sink the whole ship :-(


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ss20 (Dec 9, 2015)

Shockingly obvious story is officially obvious.  Fat Lady is practicing...

http://www.registerstar.com/news/article_cd4636de-9b04-11e5-b09b-7b8a215cc7fb.html

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=354


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## ScottySkis (Dec 11, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Shockingly obvious story is officially obvious.  Fat Lady is practicing...
> 
> http://www.registerstar.com/news/article_cd4636de-9b04-11e5-b09b-7b8a215cc7fb.html
> 
> http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=354



I just don't see hotel needed at Catamount.


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## ss20 (Jun 27, 2017)

In case anyone was wondering...

http://www.catamountski.com/events/news.php



> November 11, 2016
> 
> 
> Catamount remains committed to hotel project; will defend approvals
> ...




Yep.......


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## 4aprice (Jun 27, 2017)

ss20 said:


> In case anyone was wondering...
> 
> http://www.catamountski.com/events/news.php
> 
> ...



Camelback PA got their's built, water park and all.  Took a long time though.   

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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