# RiverC0il Goes for a Test Drive: CT 200h, JSW TDI, Mazda3, & Elantra



## riverc0il (Aug 10, 2011)

I figured I should stop hijacking the Impreza 2012 thread and get my own. 

It is difficult finding an ideal vehicle to meet all aspects of life including skiing. I suspect I am not alone in that boat. The ideal ski vehicle has yet to be designed. Much like buying a pair of skis, there is compromise everywhere and the one vehicle quiver is as much a myth as the one ski quiver. For those interested, here are my findings.

First, as with a proper ski review, you must know my biases. My absolute requirements for a new vehicle include automatic transmission, high fuel economy (especially highway), good space utility (skiing, camping, dog, etc), MP3/sD connectivity, bluetooth, steering wheel controls, and sunroof. Those are not many requirements but setting a minimum of 35 MPG highway eliminates a lot of vehicles.

My preferences but not requirements included hatchback/wagon, fold completely flat seats, 40+ MPG highway, excellent menu system for audio, and manual control with the automatic (paddle shifters would be ideal).

Based on this criteria, I narrowed things down to the Lexus CT 200h, Audi A3, Volkswagen JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, Subaru Impreza 2012, Hyundai Elantra, and 2012 Kia Rio5. Not included as options were the Ford Focus/Fiesta (can't bring myself to even look at Fords, I know they have changed) and the Chevy Cruze (for a lot of reasons). Toyota Matrix would have been included if not for current gen Impreza-esque MPG. Hyundai Accent was missing some required items and perhaps a touch small for my needs. Honda Fit sadly doesn't get great MPG, especially when you add the paddle shifter package.

Impreza at only 36 MPG and not due until very late Fall, maybe Winter, just was not worth waiting for. Still not sold on Kia longevity (though I am impressed with a recent Rio I sat in), and A3 bare bones I could afford but not with the auto, sunroof, and other options. So that leaves the CT 200h, JSW TDI, Mazda3 2012, and Elantra.

*Lexus CT 200h (CVT)* – This seemed like my dream car on paper: 43/40/42 MPG estimates, most drivers reporting higher than EPA in real world, hatchback with fold flat seats, incredibly sporty design, great looks, and upscale interior. It was definitely a stretch price wise in the low thirties. Unfortunately, this car is small. WAY too small. 

The hatch is downright tiny. The seats fold completely flat due to the hybrid battery raising the hatch floor. But there is so little clearance between the raised hatch floor and ceiling. And due to the low ceiling, even with the rear seats folded completely flat and the hatch, cargo space was distinctly limited. A retriever would have a hard time standing upright in the hatch with seats folded flat. 

I almost didn't even bother with the test drive. Also of note, the rear seats are tiny as well. Fitting the front seat to my 6'1” long legged bulk, not even a child could have fit in the back seat comfortably and a full size adult would have required me to move my seat forward just to get in, let alone comfort. This car might work for a single or a couple with limited cargo needs and city driving intentions. As a multi-sport outdoor person's vehicle, it would absolutely fail.

Online reviews from enthusiasts and manual preferring car snobs have greatly under estimated this car's get up and go. You'd never know this car rated second worst of all 2011 cars in 0-60 performance. I was over 70 MPH on the highway without realizing it and acceleration was much faster and smoother than my current 124hp econobox that gets 8.9 seconds in the 0-60. I didn't notice the difference between the two different motors but I wasn't really paying attention any ways. It didn't stick out, that is for sure. 

Driving performance was impressive considering all the poor reviews. It is not a sports car for sure. But for someone in the econobox performance range, it was nice. The CVT was actually quite cool, I didn't mind not feeling the shifts (which surprised me). But I didn't like the steering at low speeds. I could turn the wheel a full quarter turn each way, back and forth, at low speeds and barely had any movement side to side.

Interior was nice but not mind blowing. I certainly expected a little bit more plush for a Lexus (never been in one before, but it wasn't a massive step up unlike there other cars, I would imagine). The audio system sucked (I drove a model without the nav display... it had a two line dot matrix style screen). The controls were well placed in the nice and low laid back center console. But way too many buttons. I actually prefer buttons usually, but this was a big much. Visibility out the rear corners sucked, one of the worst cars I have been in for rear vis (and considering my current coupe, that is notable).

Overall, this car looked killer from the outside and on paper. But from the time I opened the hatch, I just couldn't believe how poorly the interior was designed. This is a very hard car to find. They actually peeled the plastic off the model I drove and I had to drive to a dealership two hours away to find one in stock. My closest dealership had sold their two allocations before the cars even came off the boat. I just don't know who is buying them. Someone that wants high MPG, moderately nice interior, and that has no need of any cargo room. But if I was a city slicker, I'd go with a Prius which might not look as good but gets 10 more MPG. The new Prius v is even bigger with less MPG. Lexus is on to something here but they need to execute better.

Oh, and I felt way out of my class walking into a Lexus dealership. Just felt like I didn't belong there at all. That didn't help.

*Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI (DSG)* – This was the pleasant surprise of the day. I really liked everything about this car. This car has been on the short list for two years but I really can't stand the VW brand. The driving experience itself was very different and not to my exact preferences, but I got used to it quickly. 

The utility of this wagon is excellent. Massive hatch area with fold down flat seats. The cargo area is expansive and actually more than we actually need. It looks bigger outside than it does inside even with the expansive cargo area... an interesting attribute that I can't fully describe. Though looking back over the shoulders for passing did make me realize how big the vehicle is. I don't know why someone would buy a Crossover or SUV when you can get a JSW TDI for similar or less money for the same or even more room.

Controls on the center console are excellent with a limited number of buttons and nobs, very efficient. Feel and touch of materials was fine, definitely not upscale but certainly competitive in class. Panoramic Sunroof is quite cool, you've gotta check one out if you at all enjoy sunroofs in your car. It really makes the car feel quite spacious and open. The closest you'll get to a convertible without actually buying one.

Driving was good but not my preference. It felt a bit 'floaty' I guess. Obviously, those wanting to feel more connection would go with a sportier Golf or GTI options. Nice in the curves, though, despite those feelings. Actually, the curves felt very nice despite the car's bulk, somewhat surprisingly so. 

The DSG manual mode was great, better than the Mazda3 and Elantra by far. Not used to having a car not roll forward when removing my foot from the gas. But the TDI and DSG combine for extremely low RPMs so not rolling out for MPG actually isn't an issue it seems.

*Mazda3 Hatch 2011* – I drove the Mazda3 2011 to see if the 2012 with high 30s MPG was worth the wait. The cockpit of this car is incredible. I've never sat in any driver seat that felt so comfortable. The center panel controls were perfectly laid out and wonderfully visually. Interior materials are definitely below class average now. But style and visual and "gut feel" for the cockpit was incredible.

I am not a "car guy". My two cars have been Saturns with 120ish HP. I always drive auto. I am a light foot and always go for max MPG but without the excessively crazy hypermiling stuff (for the most part 8) ). Basically, I am not the target market for a Mazda. But I do really enjoy pushing a car through a turn. It is the one time when I do mash the gas pedal, grip the wheel with two hands, and grin a little bit. It is the only “car guy” type behavior I exhibit in my driving. And the Mazda3 would have had me more than grinning had the sales rep not been driving with us. This car definitely is the best performance type car in its class. Turns and acceleration on the backroads were just great.

That said, I didn't care for the car on the highway. Perhaps my light foot, gradual acceleration style of driving just doesn't mesh with the Mazda3. The gear ratios wanted to push for a lower gear while I wanted an up shift for lower RPM for fuel efficiency. I think it is more personal driving style than anything against the Mazda3. But by my driving style, I didn't like the way this car got up to speed on the highway and would rate it lowest of the four cars I drove for highway. But that says more about me than the car.

The hatch was nice and respectable. While backseats do not fold completely flat, they are better than most. Space was good for a hatch though of course small compared to the Sportwagen. It was enough space for my needs though just lacking slightly for a week long camping trip for two with the dog. Roof box always an option but the Sportwagen had the canine advantage.

*Hyundai Elantra Premium* – This was the safe and cheap option. Nice car. Rather vanilla. Didn't like the bling on the massive and chunky center console which, along with the dash, was too high (and I am 6'1”!). Lots of space. Massive amount of trunk and passenger room for a so called “compact” car. No spare tire, though, which I don't appreciate given where I drive. Rear seat fold sucked with a massive unconnected bulge... a massive oversight for such a highly rated car.

Out of the four cars from today's drive, this was clearly the worst in the corners. I was breaking in places where I was accelerating with the other cars. Highways were nice. Kinda like the Sportwagen, the car had a high up and floaty feel but unlike the Sportwagen, it did not deliver performance when called upon. For the price, this car is a virtual steal, especially for its feature set. Drop down to the regular version and an even better price for giving up a few creature comforts. I would have much preferred the Accent Hatch but no sunroof was a deal breaker, amongst other things it lacked that I preferred.

*Showdown* – I liked the Mazda3 better on windy roads but I like the Sportwagen TDI better for straight and getting up to speed on the open road. Both had good performance in the turns but the Mazda3 was lower to the ground, had less body roll, and felt really connected. I pushed the Mazda3 through turns on the gas pedal pushing 40 where I had the Elantra on the break backing off 35. Sportwagen TDI had my sales rep recommending slowing down on a corner once... 40 MPH around a 25 MPH corner, no problem. Oops.  Sportwagen had the space advantage and the fold down flat rear seats. Definitely the better option for the dog. But the driving position and experience was lacking compared to the Mazda3. Sportwagen has built in roof rack which is a nice plus. Sportwagen also has the better manual shifting control (I didn't like the diagonal shifter featured in the Elantra and Mazda3)

In an ideal world, S would buy the Sportwagen and I would buy the Mazda3 2012. But the world is not ideal. We both have small sub-compacts and my car is due up for the trade in; whereas her car is just recently paid off and has only 110k miles. The Sportwagen gets better than estimated MPG on the highway and felt better on the wide open road and also has more room and is perfect for the dog. All advantage Sportwagen. Maybe in another three years, S (who prefers bigger cars and crossovers) can trade in her car for a dog friendly gear hauler and then I can trade in for a Mazda3. Until then, practicality trumps best in class driving experience. I am buying more with my head than my heart. VW JSW TDI it is.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 10, 2011)

bummer to hear the Hyundai was such a let down.  I haven't driven an Elantra.  I've been quite satisfied with my Sonata having gone 150K miles in it and not sunk a dime into outside of routine maintenance.

It's too bad Mazda got rid of the old 6 Wagon.  Think they may have made it in AWD one of the years as well.  They still sell it in Australia, where apparently Mazda is much more popular than here in the US.  We love our 04, Mazda3.  

Not looking to replace either car for 2-3 years.  We are of the drive the car into the ground mentality.  The Sportwagen will certainly get a look from us down the road.  I'm curious to read about what kind of maintenance issues they have over 125K miles.  Many 09s will be in that range when we're looking.  Reliability is paramount to me.  My perception of European cars is they start to break down after 100K miles and become expensive to maintain.  I hope you don't experience such with your new ride.


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## Philpug (Aug 10, 2011)

Cutting to the chase, I got the JSW TDI with the Impreza and 3 being finalists.


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## riverc0il (Aug 10, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> bummer to hear the Hyundai was such a let down.  I haven't driven an Elantra.  I've been quite satisfied with my Sonata having gone 150K miles in it and not sunk a dime into outside of routine maintenance.
> 
> It's too bad Mazda got rid of the old 6 Wagon.  Think they may have made it in AWD one of the years as well.  They still sell it in Australia, where apparently Mazda is much more popular than here in the US.  We love our 04, Mazda3.
> 
> Not looking to replace either car for 2-3 years.  We are of the drive the car into the ground mentality.  The Sportwagen will certainly get a look from us down the road.  I'm curious to read about what kind of maintenance issues they have over 125K miles.  Many 09s will be in that range when we're looking.  Reliability is paramount to me.  My perception of European cars is they start to break down after 100K miles and become expensive to maintain.  I hope you don't experience such with your new ride.


The Elantra has received rave reviews across the board from almost all automotive journalists and is always in the top three within its class. I can understand the press. It is a lot of car for the money. But it is super bland. I absolutely detested the center console and high dash height (and I'm 6'1") and the rear seat fold down was cheap. No spare tire either. Hyundai made the materials look full of bling but definitely cut corners where most people don't look. I'm sure it is a great car, just not what I was looking for. Very surprised as I honestly thought I might have just taken the Elantra due to price when I first started looking.

S drove a Protege wagon a while back. She didn't like it's sporty drive and favored the Matrix. I didn't get to drive it but I loved the look and given my experience with the 3, would have loved the drive, too. I can see why the cut it out of the lineup due to the 3. A 6 wagon would be ideal for good space, too bad indeed.

Longevity on the TDIs seems to be a mixed bag. Not a ton of bad news but the folks reporting problems seem to have major and expensive issues. Plenty of TDI drivers well over 200k with regular maintenance only. Definitely a bit of a roll of the dice it seems. I'm feeling lucky.


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## Glenn (Aug 11, 2011)

Hyundai has been making a lot of progress in recent years. Some are saying they'll be right up there with Toyota and Honda in terms of sales volume down the road. 

Great reivew. Thanks for typing all that up.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 11, 2011)

From what I've read, the next generation Elantra Touring will be shrinking down to a 3 sized hatchback.  I'm assuming that perhaps many people have the same impression of the car as you did and Hyundai isn't moving the volume of vehicles they had hoped.

Another wagon bites the dust.


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## hammer (Aug 11, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Great reivew. Thanks for typing all that up.



+1...interesting mix of cars for the comparison.



deadheadskier said:


> My perception of European cars is they start  to break down after 100K miles and become expensive to maintain.  I hope  you don't experience such with your new ride.



FWIW my Japanese make vehicles started to cost more in repairs after  100K miles.  Not to the point where they were not driveable, but things  started to break nevertheless.

I went away from Japanese vehicles on my last 2 purchases.  Toyotas and  Subarus may still be more reliable but the Volvo and Jeep that I  purchased just felt more substantial, had better quality materials, and  drove better.  Hope that it's a tradeoff I don't regret in 4-5 years  time.


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## JimG. (Aug 11, 2011)

hammer said:


> +1...interesting mix of cars for the comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, interesting how folks have different opinions about these types of things. Your opinions are totally at odds with my experiences.

I considered a Volvo and test drove a few, but I didn't think the quality of the cars matched the price they were asking. They felt cheap and tinny to me. And I won't say much about Chysler/Jeep products other than the one Chrysler product I made the poor choice of purchasing turned out to be nothing more than a total pile of junk.

I've been a Subaru man for the last 15 years and have been ultimately satisfied with the quality, utility, and overall driving experience. In my experiences the Subarus are just getting broken in at 100K miles. My wife's Legacy had 227K on it when we replaced it and still ran like a top. My 04 Outback had 350K on it and would have run forever if some moron didn't rear end it at a school crossing. Our 05 Outback which replaced the Legacy has 100K on it and still seems like new. 

And other than head gaskets that seem to start leaking at 100K (not a terrible repair either since you can combine it with the timing belt replacement recommended at 105K), these cars have required nothing but routine maintenance.

And I feel that the selling prices of Subarus are inexpensive too. My new 2011 Legacy 2.5i premium with the all weather package cost $23,400 delivered, after all dealer prep fees and taxes. With the 6 speed and PZEV I averaged 33 miles per gallon this past weekend on my trip to Delaware and back. For a car with full time 4wd, that just plain kicks ass.

I will buy nothing else.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 11, 2011)

My 04 Legacy Wagon was dead at 100K miles :lol:  When I got it with 57K miles on it, it felt older than my 07 Sonata does now with 150K.  Granted, the car lived in Brooklyn and NYC prior to me driving it.


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## JimG. (Aug 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> My 04 Legacy Wagon was dead at 100K miles :lol:  When I got it with 57K miles on it, it felt older than my 07 Sonata does now with 150K.  Granted, the car lived in Brooklyn and NYC prior to me driving it.



Chances are the person who owned it before you did not maintain it well. 

One of the main reasons I avoid used cars...poor maintenance destroys longevity. 57K on a Subaru is nothing.

I did purchase 2 Subarus that were demos...both had less than 10K on them when I bought them and were essentially new since only the dealers and a few potential customers had driven them. Those would be my wife's old Legacy with 227K and the Outback with 350K.

I guess this is the reason manufacturers always use the caveat that actual driving experiences may be different depending on driving habits.


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## hammer (Aug 11, 2011)

JimG. said:


> Wow, interesting how folks have different opinions about these types of things. Your opinions are totally at odds with my experiences.
> 
> I considered a Volvo and test drove a few, but I didn't think the quality of the cars matched the price they were asking. They felt cheap and tinny to me. And I won't say much about Chysler/Jeep products other than the one Chrysler product I made the poor choice of purchasing turned out to be nothing more than a total pile of junk.
> 
> ...


Comparing a Volvo to a Subaru is not really apples to apples...Volvos are in the "neo luxury" category and admittedly have higher price points (but they do discount a lot off of MSRP).  I tend to look at Volvos as lower cost alternatives to expensive German makes, and in that light I'm pretty pleased with my decision so far.

The Jeep that we just purchased (2011 Grand Cherokee) was a real surprise.  Much more refined and quieter on the road than any of the Japanese SUVs we test drove.  My last Chrysler purchase in the 80s was a fast car but a real POS, so I do have concerns about reliability on the Jeep, especially since it's a first year redesign...but I'll see how it plays out.  Have to admit I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a service contract.

Looking back on it, with the exception of the $2000 I spent on the Head Gasket issue, my Subaru was pretty reliable.  Main concerns I had when I donated the car at 174K miles were that the transmission wasn't smoothly shifting from 2nd to 3rd (but it wasn't bad enough to need repair) and the catalytic converter was going.  My DW also hated the brakes on it and was worried that it wasn't a safe vehicle for our son as a beater car.  I've actually spent more on the Toyota Highlander in repairs in the second 100K of its life than I did for the Subaru.


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## Philpug (Aug 11, 2011)

Having sold both Volvos and Subarus for many years, well over 1000 of each brand, Subaru is currently the winner in the "ski car" category. When, you look at all the costs including maintenance and resale, Subaru.


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## Nick (Aug 11, 2011)

Both my cars (03 Saab 9-3 and 02 Mits Lancer) are paid off, so I'm hesitent to buy another car, but they are getting up there now (165k and 130k, respectively) in mileage. 

I'll be on a similar search soon. I'm guessing probably next spring it will be time.


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## hammer (Aug 11, 2011)

Philpug said:


> Having sold both Volvos and Subarus for many years, well over 1000 of each brand, Subaru is currently the winner in the "ski car" category. When, you look at all the costs including maintenance and resale, Subaru.


When I purchased my Volvo I did so as a less expensive alternative to Infinity and BMW, not because it would be a better ski car than a Subaru.  The Subaru would have been the cheaper and more practical alternative but I wanted something different...


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## riverc0il (Aug 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> From what I've read, the next generation Elantra Touring will be shrinking down to a 3 sized hatchback.  I'm assuming that perhaps many people have the same impression of the car as you did and Hyundai isn't moving the volume of vehicles they had hoped.
> 
> Another wagon bites the dust.


I think it is a dumb decision. The Elantra Touring was tops on my list excepting MPG which is pretty terrible. The Touring isn't the same platform as the Elantra, it is a far superior Euro styled vehicle. A smaller Elantra Touring might but up against the Accent Hatch. Not sure I understand that move. But I have heard a Sonata Wagon comparable to their Euro equiv is a possibility down the road, maybe...

Wagons and hatches are back, woot.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 11, 2011)

From what I've read, the decision to shrink the car is partly to get some of the Mazda3/GTI market, plus they want to improve fuel economy to match the sedan.

maybe we'll get a spare tire too :lol:


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## AdironRider (Aug 11, 2011)

hammer said:


> The Jeep that we just purchased (2011 Grand Cherokee) was a real surprise.  Much more refined and quieter on the road than any of the Japanese SUVs we test drove.  My last Chrysler purchase in the 80s was a fast car but a real POS, so I do have concerns about reliability on the Jeep, especially since it's a first year redesign...but I'll see how it plays out.  Have to admit I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a service contract.



Those new Grand Cherokees are badass, albeit slightly underpowered with the V6. Not enough to notice really, but if you like to gun it off the line you might notice. 

The new Grand Cherokees ride on the same platform as the new Mercedes M Class. The one good thing that came out of the Daimley Chrysler love child.


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 11, 2011)

Nice review Riv was mildly interested in CT 200 h for the Queen's car


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## billski (Aug 11, 2011)

So Steve, How are they "snow-rated"?  I don't mean your abilities, I mean, how well is the car respond, how well does it perform to commuter trips on a powder day.    I know, it's summer time, who can say for sure.  The one thing I wish I had was a wee bit more clearance.

I can't believe the number of comments about their wheels only getting ~100K-ish.  These guys must drive them hard.  I always keep it until it has 200K or 10 years under its belt, whichever comes first.  That is the point I start having major repairs.  This has been with Subaru, Toyota (lots of various ones) and Saab.  Look like the Audi will get me there too.  Thoughts?


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## Geoff (Aug 11, 2011)

billski said:


> I can't believe the number of comments about their wheels only getting ~100K-ish.  These guys must drive them hard.  I always keep it until it has 200K or 10 years under its belt, whichever comes first.  That is the point I start having major repairs.  This has been with Subaru, Toyota (lots of various ones) and Saab.  Look like the Audi will get me there too.  Thoughts?



I tend to dump my cars at 150K.   They're still mechanically perfect but I prefer to sell the car before there is something seriously wrong with it.   I try to buy leftover and slightly out of favor cars at a big discount.   My two VW GTIs were bought as leftovers when there were big dealer incentives.   My SUVs were all bought with all kinds of incentives & rebates.   It's a depreciating asset.   I don't see the point in paying the extra for a high demand car.

Right now, I'm not driving enough to need a new car anytime soon.   I don't commute.   I winter at a ski area.   My only driving is to the airport for business trips.   Unless my SUV falls apart from rust, I have another 4 or 5 years with the cars I own now.


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## Glenn (Aug 12, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Those new Grand Cherokees are badass, albeit slightly underpowered with the V6. Not enough to notice really, but if you like to gun it off the line you might notice.
> 
> The new Grand Cherokees ride on the same platform as the new Mercedes M Class. The one good thing that came out of the Daimley Chrysler love child.



They really made some strides with the current Grand. I think they look very sharp. And they've gotten good reviews in the automotive press.


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## drjeff (Aug 12, 2011)

Glenn said:


> They really made some strides with the current Grand. I think they look very sharp. And they've gotten good reviews in the automotive press.



Agree.  It's one really sharp looking SUV now.  Enough of a change, especially from the back that you're not even sure at first glance that it's a GC anymore


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## Nick (Aug 12, 2011)

Geoff said:


> I tend to dump my cars at 150K.   They're still mechanically perfect but I prefer to sell the car before there is something seriously wrong with it.   I try to buy leftover and slightly out of favor cars at a big discount.   My two VW GTIs were bought as leftovers when there were big dealer incentives.   My SUVs were all bought with all kinds of incentives & rebates.   It's a depreciating asset.   I don't see the point in paying the extra for a high demand car.
> 
> Right now, I'm not driving enough to need a new car anytime soon.   I don't commute.   I winter at a ski area.   My only driving is to the airport for business trips.   Unless my SUV falls apart from rust, I have another 4 or 5 years with the cars I own now.



Yeah I'm getting nervous on my car. I've got 160k and little things are starting to wrong. At the AZ summit last year, my door locks stopped working, I had to use the key in the fob to open the door and then I couldn't start the car because the Fob wasn't recognized. 

Besides that it's mostly annoyances - something with the amplifier is wrong and the speakers on the left side of the car don't work. And hten of course just the genreal cosmetic damage from being almost 10 years old, several dings, scratched out headlights, and a really pitted hood. 

besides that though the car is still running very well, so I think I'm hanging onto it for at least another 1 - 2 years.


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## hammer (Aug 12, 2011)

Glenn said:


> They really made some strides with the current  Grand. I think they look very sharp. And they've gotten good reviews in  the automotive press.





drjeff said:


> Agree.  It's one really sharp looking SUV now.  Enough of a change, especially from the back that you're not even sure at first glance that it's a GC anymore



Here's mine with the camper hitched up...


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## hammer (Aug 12, 2011)

Nick said:


> Yeah I'm getting nervous on my car. I've got 160k and little things are starting to wrong. At the AZ summit last year, my door locks stopped working, I had to use the key in the fob to open the door and then I couldn't start the car because the Fob wasn't recognized.
> 
> Besides that it's mostly annoyances - something with the amplifier is wrong and the speakers on the left side of the car don't work. And then of course just the general cosmetic damage from being almost 10 years old, several dings, scratched out headlights, and a really pitted hood.
> 
> besides that though the car is still running very well, so I think I'm hanging onto it for at least another 1 - 2 years.



For the headlights, you can always get some lens restorer and use it.  Won't get the scratches out but will remove the yellowing (oxidation?).


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## Glenn (Aug 12, 2011)

Hammer, I'll have to check that @ home...blocked at work. 

How's it tow?


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## hammer (Aug 12, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Hammer, I'll have to check that @ home...blocked at work.
> 
> How's it tow?



With the V6 it pulls OK but it isn't that quick...camper's around 2200 lb loaded I think.  Would have preferred the Hemi for towing but it's a daily driver so gas mileage is a consideration.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 12, 2011)

hammer said:


> Here's mine with the camper hitched up...



sweet ride and camper Hammer!


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## billski (Aug 12, 2011)

*no tunes?*



Nick said:


> Besides that it's mostly annoyances - something with the amplifier is wrong and the speakers on the left side of the car don't work. A



Well, if the tunes don't work, you might as well junk it.  Tunes and a sunroof would do it for me!


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## billski (Aug 12, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> sweet ride and camper Hammer!



Hammer, 
You are way dated.  I think you need an upgrade:


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## Geoff (Aug 12, 2011)

hammer said:


> Here's mine with the camper hitched up...



Wow!   That doesn't look like the side profile of any Jeep product.   The ass end looks like a German crossover.


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## JimG. (Aug 12, 2011)

hammer said:


> For the headlights, you can always get some lens restorer and use it.  Won't get the scratches out but will remove the yellowing (oxidation?).



That lens restorer is an excellent product. I used it on my wife's 05 Outack and I was impressed with the results.


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## JimG. (Aug 12, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> sweet ride and camper Hammer!



I have to admit the new stying of the GC is very nice.

The new Durangos are very nice too. I owned a 2000 Durango but like I said before, had some bad reliability experiences with it. I finally got rid of it in 2004 when both the AC condenser and the evaporator unit literally turned to dust and fell apart. It also had an inordinate amount of rust damage for a 4 year old vehicle.


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## billski (Aug 12, 2011)

JimG. said:


> That lens restorer is an excellent product. I used it on my wife's 05 Outack and I was impressed with the results.



I used Meguiar's Cleaner and Polish several times.  It seemed to work for a while, but then haze up again in a couple months.


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## JimG. (Aug 12, 2011)

billski said:


> I used Meguiar's Cleaner and Polish several times.  It seemed to work for a while, but then haze up again in a couple months.



Yeah, very true.

The problem is that those lenses get scratched up and that increases the surface area for oxidation to occur. So they turn cloudy/yellow faster as they get more scratched. And I think the restorer works alot like Simonize for the car finish by removing the very surface layer of the lens. By doing that, it creates more scratches.


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## drjeff (Aug 12, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Wow!   That doesn't look like the side profile of any Jeep product.   The ass end looks like a German crossover.



Exactly!  I rode up on one at a stop light on my bike a few weeks ago.  And heading into the sun, on quick glance I was sure that I'd be seeing a "Q5"/"Q7" plastered on the liftgate and 4 rings on the front grille.

Jeep/Chrysler really did a GREAT job with the body styling of the new GC IMHO


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## Glenn (Aug 12, 2011)

hammer said:


> With the V6 it pulls OK but it isn't that quick...camper's around 2200 lb loaded I think.  Would have preferred the Hemi for towing but it's a daily driver so gas mileage is a consideration.



On paper, the Hemi "appears" to just be a bit less regarding MPGs than the 6. But I'm sure in the rearl world, the numbers are probably a bit firther apart.


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## riverc0il (Aug 12, 2011)

billski said:


> So Steve, How are they "snow-rated"?  I don't mean your abilities, I mean, how well is the car respond, how well does it perform to commuter trips on a powder day.    I know, it's summer time, who can say for sure.  The one thing I wish I had was a wee bit more clearance.
> 
> I can't believe the number of comments about their wheels only getting ~100K-ish.  These guys must drive them hard.  I always keep it until it has 200K or 10 years under its belt, whichever comes first.  That is the point I start having major repairs.  This has been with Subaru, Toyota (lots of various ones) and Saab.  Look like the Audi will get me there too.  Thoughts?


They are rate the same for the snow. Slap four top end snow tires on and have fun. None of the cars were top heavy. I don't know how a hybrid would do in the snow. I would assume the superior torque of the diesel may be an advantage over the others. The Elantra was fairly disconnected and the Mazda3 was low to the ground and connected. Might just be personal preference. Snow tires trumps all except snows plus AWD, so YMMV. I don't really think about how the cars will perform in the snow.

The plan for the TDI is either to trade in after three years if S decided she wants a new wagon or CUV (then maybe take another look at the Mazda3 Sky-D) or keep it forever and run it into the ground. Diesels go forever, 300k wouldn't be out of the question. This thing has all the creature comforts I would ever want so I don't see any reason why I would want to upgrade down the road.


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## AdironRider (Aug 12, 2011)

Id take AWD with all seasons over FWD with snows any day of the week. My neck of the woods 2wd anything doesnt cut it. Chain laws are a bitch.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 12, 2011)

This argument has gone on ad naseum on this forum, but I'll say it again.

My FWD Sonata with Snow Tires does better in the snow than my AWD Audi A6 did with all seasons.  Got stuck way more often in the Audi and in general it slipped around a lot more.


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## AdironRider (Aug 12, 2011)

Ill admit, Im stuck dealing with chain laws, where AWD or 4x4 is mandatory or else you need chains. Doesnt matter snows or otherwise. 

With the way I drive, I need the 4x4 or AWD to blast through a couple feet of blower in the driveway, then once Im moving Im good. The chain laws cant be gotten around though regardless of how good a driver you are. The fines are steeeeeep.


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## Geoff (Aug 12, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> This argument has gone on ad naseum on this forum, but I'll say it again.
> 
> My FWD Sonata with Snow Tires does better in the snow than my AWD Audi A6 did with all seasons.  Got stuck way more often in the Audi and in general it slipped around a lot more.



That's why I run studded Nokians on my AWD Mountaineer.   The high ground clearance and 4wd system are fine for snow but they're useless on black ice.   With stock tires, my SUV is white knuckle when it's icy.


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## hrstrat57 (Aug 17, 2011)

I was gonna get a new WRX to replace my 07 Impreza....but I bought a Mustang GT convertible instead.

Does anyone know if they sell a ski rack I can put on the top? 

It has posi traction so it should be way better than my Subie in the deep stuff!!!!


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## Geoff (Aug 17, 2011)

hrstrat57 said:


> I was gonna get a new WRX to replace my 07 Impreza....but I bought a Mustang GT convertible instead.
> 
> Does anyone know if they sell a ski rack I can put on the top?
> 
> It has posi traction so it should be way better than my Subie in the deep stuff!!!!



You might consider putting a receiver hitch on it.   That will accept a bike rack with a ski rack add-on.

I'd think that a RWD car with a V8 in the nose would be pretty tricky to drive in the snow.   With all that horsepower, the rear wheels are going to spin no matter how good the limited slip differential is.   Back in the dark ages, I owned a Maverick and a turbo Mustang.   You really had to plan ahead.  You took hills at speed.  You avoided hill starts at all costs.   I didn't have much horsepower.   I'd think the rear end would be all over the place unless you were really careful with the throttle.


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## riverc0il (Sep 3, 2011)

Now the proud owner of a 2012 VW SportWagen TDI. Grey exterior, black interior. With the Sunroof and DSG Auto.

Man, this car just kills it on the highway. Big smile on my face. You press the pedal and this car just takes off and pushes you back against the seat. Engine has a pleasant growl but it doesn't roar when pushed. It just says "Yes, please... push down a little harder!" And this is coming from an MPG obsessive light foot. 

Despite a heavy foot and varying RPMs substantially, I still got 42 MPG on the trip computer after 120 miles. I can't wait to see what this thing can do with a light foot once broken in.


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## Warp Daddy (Sep 3, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Now the proud owner of a 2012 VW SportWagen TDI. Grey exterior, black interior. With the Sunroof and DSG Auto.
> 
> Man, this car just kills it on the highway. Big smile on my face. You press the pedal and this car just takes off and pushes you back against the seat. Engine has a pleasant growl but it doesn't roar when pushed. It just says "Yes, please... push down a little harder!" And this is coming from an MPG obsessive light foot.
> 
> Despite a heavy foot and varying RPMs substantially, I still got 42 MPG on the trip computer after 120 miles. I can't wait to see what this thing can do with a light foot once broken in.




Nice ! enjoy


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## Geoff (Sep 3, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Despite a heavy foot and varying RPMs substantially, I still got 42 MPG on the trip computer after 120 miles. I can't wait to see what this thing can do with a light foot once broken in.



Oh no!  Another smug hypermiler.


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## riverc0il (Sep 3, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Oh no!  Another smug hypermiler.


I wouldn't classify myself as a hypermiler. Those guys do some dangerous things at worst and at best there are many things they do that barely help MPG much for the inconvenience. Also, If I was a smug hypermiler, I would have gone for the manual instead of the auto. Then I would be smug for two reasons.

:beer:


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## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Now the proud owner of a 2012 VW SportWagen TDI. Grey exterior, black interior. With the Sunroof and DSG Auto.
> 
> Man, this car just kills it on the highway. Big smile on my face. You press the pedal and this car just takes off and pushes you back against the seat. Engine has a pleasant growl but it doesn't roar when pushed. It just says "Yes, please... push down a little harder!" And this is coming from an MPG obsessive light foot.
> 
> Despite a heavy foot and varying RPMs substantially, I still got 42 MPG on the trip computer after 120 miles. I can't wait to see what this thing can do with a light foot once broken in.



pics?


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## riverc0il (Sep 5, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> pics?


Just Google "sportwagen platinum grey" -- anything that hasn't been customized looks the same. Though I got the 17" alloys with the sunroof.

Absolutely in love with this car. Everything and more than I thought it would be... still discovering some nifty features I had not been aware of prior to purchase.

I swear I am going to get a speeding ticket in this thing. Not on the highway but on the back roads. This thing likes to get up into 6 gear (with the auto) pretty quickly. So it doesn't take much pedal to hold a 35 or 40 limit. Corners incredibly well so for me I feel like I am going slower than I really am. Doesn't feel like a big wagon at all. And the airyness and space is incredible. Can't think of anything I would change at this point.


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## roark (Sep 5, 2011)

I love the sunroof on that car, quite the upgrade from your previous ride!


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## riverc0il (Sep 5, 2011)

roark said:


> I love the sunroof on that car, quite the upgrade from your previous ride!


LOL. Total understatement. You should have felt how it was driving lately. 

It really is the closest thing to a convertible short of not having a roof over your head.


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## bigbog (Sep 5, 2011)

Very nice!


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## bvibert (Sep 6, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Now the proud owner of a 2012 VW SportWagen TDI. Grey exterior, black interior. With the Sunroof and DSG Auto.
> 
> Man, this car just kills it on the highway. Big smile on my face. You press the pedal and this car just takes off and pushes you back against the seat. Engine has a pleasant growl but it doesn't roar when pushed. It just says "Yes, please... push down a little harder!" And this is coming from an MPG obsessive light foot.
> 
> Despite a heavy foot and varying RPMs substantially, I still got 42 MPG on the trip computer after 120 miles. I can't wait to see what this thing can do with a light foot once broken in.



Nice!  Congrats!  Sounds like a sweet ride.


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## ALLSKIING (Sep 6, 2011)

Nice I have seen them around and like what they did especially with the back end of the car.


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## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> pics?


Here ya go, finally managed to get a shot after a hike last week.


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## ALLSKIING (Oct 5, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Here ya go, finally managed to get a shot after a hike last week.


Nice color! Enjoy it.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 5, 2011)

I like the Gray to.

sweet ride river!


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## bvibert (Oct 5, 2011)

I like that color a lot too!


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## riverc0il (Oct 19, 2011)

38.3 MPG after 3 fill ups (calculated, not the car's comp). Just had my best tank of 41.3 MPG. This is generally going 5-10+ the limit. Four 4+ hour round trips. The first 1000 miles I worked the engine pretty well once warmed up (enthusiast recommendations are to "not baby it" during the break in). Definitely was not "trying" for high MPG so far, that is for sure. Not much traffic driving so take that for what it's worth. Suffice it to say that the official EPA ratings for this vehicle are a total crock.

Driving to work really kills the MPG since it barely gets warmed up in the 3.5 mile drive (MPG is pretty bleak before the engine is warmed up). But I can still usually get it up to 35 MPG even during the commute. Got 46+ MPG this past weekend on the way home from MRG... starting on a downhill helped. 

Mini-road trip vacation starts Friday. Can't wait to put some more miles on this thing... even if it'll be mostly highway. I bet I average at least 45 MPG this weekend.


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## ALLSKIING (Oct 19, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> 38.3 MPG after 3 fill ups (calculated, not the car's comp). Just had my best tank of 41.3 MPG. This is generally going 5-10+ the limit. Four 4+ hour round trips. The first 1000 miles I worked the engine pretty well once warmed up (enthusiast recommendations are to "not baby it" during the break in). Definitely was not "trying" for high MPG so far, that is for sure. Not much traffic driving so take that for what it's worth. Suffice it to say that the official EPA ratings for this vehicle are a total crock.
> 
> Driving to work really kills the MPG since it barely gets warmed up in the 3.5 mile drive (MPG is pretty bleak before the engine is warmed up). But I can still usually get it up to 35 MPG even during the commute. Got 46+ MPG this past weekend on the way home from MRG... starting on a downhill helped.
> 
> Mini-road trip vacation starts Friday. Can't wait to put some more miles on this thing... even if it'll be mostly highway. I bet I average at least 45 MPG this weekend.



Thats a lot better then i am getting with my Jeep at 19.5 MPG:lol: How big is the tank? You must be getting something like 450 miles between fillups?


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## riverc0il (Oct 19, 2011)

13.5 or 14 gallon, I think? Last tank I got 536. I could easily get 600 and with careful driving 700 would be easily achievable. Some hypermilers have gotten 800 even with some real stupid folks actually getting 900. I think 500 is going to be very dependable per tank regular season and 600 per talk during ski season when almost all of my miles are highway.


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## ALLSKIING (Oct 19, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> 13.5 or 14 gallon, I think? Last tank I got 536. I could easily get 600 and with careful driving 700 would be easily achievable. Some hypermilers have gotten 800 even with some real stupid folks actually getting 900. I think 500 is going to be very dependable per tank regular season and 600 per talk during ski season when almost all of my miles are highway.



800 to 900 miles between fillups is just crazy...With the mileage I drive I would only fill up once a month :blink: Even at 500 to 600 would only be twice a month....I am starting to hate my 19.5....340 miles to a tank driving like I am 90 years old Jeep :lol:


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## Geoff (Oct 21, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> 13.5 or 14 gallon, I think?



My fuel tank is supposed to be 14.5 gallons.  I've put 15 gallons in it a couple of times.


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## AdironRider (Oct 21, 2011)

The filler tubes can hold upwards of a gallon or so.


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## catskills (Oct 21, 2011)

Subaru Impreza is well pretty damn awesome.  Let me explain.  Last winter at 2am in the morning we already had 20 inches of new snow on the roads with high winds that had not been plowed since 9pm.  No problem I am at home at sleep.  I was at home sleeping until the volunteer fire dept.  pager went off.  :smash: time to wake and move my a$$.  Anyway my daughter was home that night and I grab the keys to her Subaru Impreza that was blocking the driveway.  I am driving down the road in this tiny Impreza  in 20 inches and more of  snow.  The car is taking powder shots over the hood in the snow drifts.  I have never ever driven a car like this Subaru that handled this good in deep powder.  Just awesome. After about 4 miles to the fire I take a turn and get behind one of our fire trucks.  Thank god I got behind the fire truck when I did.  There were two large trees across the road.  The trees were no match for a large fire engine filled with water at 60 MPH.   House was saved and the Subaru Impreza was extremely impressive. 

That is all nice and all.  I got my eye on the VW Jeta TDI with 6 speed standard.  I may end up with a Subaru.   I got a few years to decide.  My 2003 Honda Accord has 167,000 miles on it and has not had one major mechanical problem.   Then again there is no way that  Honda Accord would have made it to that fire.


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## riverc0il (Oct 27, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Mini-road trip vacation starts Friday. Can't wait to put some more miles on this thing... even if it'll be mostly highway. I bet I average at least 45 MPG this weekend.


41.8 and 43.4 on my two tanks during the trip. Those numbers also include some cold engine around town driving both before and after the trip and a trip up to Franconia Notch and back... so they are probably a little on the low side for just the trip. I am still trying to figure out how much my car's MPG comp is off by but I think I actually got better than 45 MPG on the way home. Hard to tell since I didn't tank up immediately after we got back. Also, we took the 84 down through the hills and 95 back along the coast (slower due to lower speed limit also) so the way back was much more efficient.

Overall, I am at 39.9 MPG average which is 2.9 MPG better than the EPA for highway and WAY better than EPA average expected. Still a little less than I was expecting, though. This thing has a sweet spot between 1-2k RPM. 2k is about 60 MPH. Once you go above 2k RPM (excepting downhills), the MPG drops off substantially. So highway led foots won't see the MPG benefits. This car is most fuel efficient on side roads and county roads with 50 MPH limits and least efficient on long highway up hills at 70+ MPH. I don't think 50 MPG is attainable at highway speeds but potentially possible on back roads, especially with long pulse and glide downhills.

Snow tires just went on and winter diesel should be hitting the pumps soon so we'll see what that does. In the meantime, I am starting to drive for efficiency rather than fun (usually  ), so I suspect my average MPG will continue increasing into the low 40s even with snows and winter diesel.


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## Geoff (Oct 27, 2011)

Clicked in expecting smug hypermiler post.   Left satisfied.   

You're going to lose a couple of MPG in the winter between less energy in the winter mix (much less paraffin) and increased wind resistance from the cold air.   I think you'll notice the MPG spread between 50 mph and 70 mph increases.


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## ALLSKIING (Oct 27, 2011)

How many miles on it? My Jeep jumped up 5mpg better after I hit around 8k miles. Not sure if that happens with a diesel engine though.


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## riverc0il (Oct 27, 2011)

ALLSKIING said:


> How many miles on it? My Jeep jumped up 5mpg better after I hit around 8k miles. Not sure if that happens with a diesel engine though.


Just over 2k miles. I don't expect any bump. I'm satisfied with what I am already getting.

@Geoff... no hypermiling here. If I was hypermiling, I wouldn't have driven at 65-70 during much of the drive. Much as I love fuel efficient driving, a couple extra bucks ain't worth loosing half an hour or more on a long trip for a couple extra MPG. I don't hypermile. I just drive efficiently.  Hypermilers do some F'd up stuff...


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## skidmarks (Oct 28, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Just over 2k miles. I don't expect any bump. I'm satisfied with what I am already getting.
> 
> @Geoff... no hypermiling here. If I was hypermiling, I wouldn't have driven at 65-70 during much of the drive. Much as I love fuel efficient driving, a couple extra bucks ain't worth loosing half an hour or more on a long trip for a couple extra MPG. I don't hypermile. I just drive efficiently.  Hypermilers do some F'd up stuff...



Congrats on the car! I love VW's. My Wife's 2009 TDI SW has been averaging 44-45MPG for the past two years but she doesn't have a heavy foot. I wonder what highway speed would give you the best MPG? I can't stand to go much under 70 and never get over 30MPG with my Golf (gas) 2L.

BTW What are you doing for snow tires? In the first picture the VW has Toyo's on them, the second pictures Conti Contacts...... I think I'm going to puchase some Blizzack WS70's next week.


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## riverc0il (Oct 28, 2011)

skidmarks said:


> BTW What are you doing for snow tires? In the first picture the VW has Toyo's on them, the second pictures Conti Contacts...... I think I'm going to puchase some Blizzack WS70's next week.


I went with General Artic Altimax. I've ran the WS60s on my previous car and loved them. But I was stunned at online reviews of the Altimax. TONS of former Blizzack owners praised the General's as being superior AND costing a ton less. They got their first work out today climbing and icy K Access Road. Not a full work out for sure, but two thumbs up so far. Can't even hear them, sound just like my all seasons.


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## Geoff (Oct 28, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I went with General Artic Altimax. I've ran the WS60s on my previous car and loved them. But I was stunned at online reviews of the Altimax. TONS of former Blizzack owners praised the General's as being superior AND costing a ton less. They got their first work out today climbing and icy K Access Road. Not a full work out for sure, but two thumbs up so far. Can't even hear them, sound just like my all seasons.



I was amazed at how the traction on the WS60 went to hell at less than 15,000 miles.   I ditched them for Nokians a year ago even though they had tons of tread left.

The Nokians I had on my first GTI lasted the life of the car (I sold it with 145,000 miles).   I gave them away to a friend with a beater Jetta a few years back and he ran them for a winter.


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## Nick (Jan 30, 2012)

My first car was a VW Golf, then I had a VW Passat. The passat... I loved the car's driving and interior but f-in despised the repair bills on that thing. I think VW has had some serious improvements though in qulaity since that car (a 1995 MY). 

Looking at a Tiguan now for my wife.


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## MR. evil (Mar 24, 2012)

Just picked up a 2012 Golf TDI this morning. This thread was a very big factor into getting the car.


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## riverc0il (Mar 24, 2012)

Cool, enjoy it!

Over 8000 miles so far and still loving my TDI. Averaging* 39.1 MPG* since inception (actual recording, not using the car's computer) and that is with 4+ months of winter tires and a little less than that on winter diesel. Just scored a best tank of 45.9 MPG recently, I can tell winter diesel is out and regular supply is back in. Should be able to get an even better best tank with regular tires back on. With the summer coming up, I am expecting to get the overall average over 40 very quickly.

Interestingly enough, I am not impressed with highway miles (for the record, I have the extra weight of an auto). It is difficult to keep the MPG much over 40 when driving 65-70+. My best MPG is all country roads with 40-55 MPH, especially the hills where I can pulse and glide.

Panoramic sunroof is amazing. I haven't closed the shade once since I got the car. 

I think after 6 months the honeymoon phase may be over. But it is hard to be unbiased after dropping $28k on a new toy. Of course I am going to love something after sinking that type of money into it. And I do have a few criticisms of the car, notably I could have used another inch or two of floor space in the back for my skis (they fit, but cramming four pay diagonal (with a pair of 186s) isn't as easy as it should be for a wagon (they all fit, but the tips occasionally stuff up the passenger door--okay, perhaps that is a vain criticism). The biggest issue is not enough places to put stuff in the front. The front passenger area needs more trays, cubbies, and holders. A sunglasses holder on the roof would have been great (okay, sunroof dials are there). And of course, highway MPG at 40-42 MPG when doing 65-70ish on the flats isn't awe inspiring compared to 50-60 MPG on back country roads. But that difference is par for course with any car, still I was expecting better on the highways when doing 70. I just don't drive 70 any more. The SD/Media player is complete and total rubbish. I can't handle big SD cards (I think 8 or 16 is the limit, I wasted money buying a 32 without reading the fine print) and sorting isn't great. Very surprising this isn't better quality in this day and age.

Any ways, I love the car still and am looking forward to having it for a dozen years or more and pushing the odo well over 200k.


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## o3jeff (Mar 24, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Just picked up a 2012 Golf TDI this morning. This thread was a very big factor into getting the car.



Pics?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Just picked up a 2012 Golf TDI this morning. This thread was a very big factor into getting the car.



Curious why the Golf over the Jetta.  Was there a substantial difference in price?  I seem to recall part of the reason of wanting a new car was you wanted more space than what you had in your Accord Coupe.  Speaking of which, is the Coupe for sale?  :lol:


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## Geoff (Mar 25, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> And of course, highway MPG at 40-42 MPG when doing 65-70ish on the flats isn't awe inspiring compared to 50-60 MPG on back country roads.



Your highway MPG should improve quite a bit with the warmer and more humid weather.


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## riverc0il (Mar 25, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Your highway MPG should improve quite a bit with the warmer and more humid weather.


Yea, I attribute my recent MPG jump not just to regular diesel but also to the warmer weather. It is astounding how much MPG drops off when taking short trips in the winter during which the car barely warms up during the trip.

Drove to Boston last night to see Les Mis and for kicks I tried to average around 60 MPH or so. Computer shows 50 MPG (actually was closer to 51.5 on the way down and those numbers are both counting a few minutes of city driving) both ways which is more likely 48 real MPG or so. So Prius like MPG is possible even on the hghway if you drive just a little under the limit and really work the accelerator with the topography.


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## marcski (Mar 25, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> The SD/Media player is complete and total rubbish. I can't handle big SD cards (I think 8 or 16 is the limit, I wasted money buying a 32 without reading the fine print) and sorting isn't great. Very surprising this isn't better quality in this day and age.



I am surprised it isn't better!  I have a new VAG Product and the media card player is awesome.  Mine does take a 32 and it sorts just like it does on your PC.  In fact, I was thinking how the media pLayer is so good, that it really obviscates the need for the ipod connector. 

Good luck and enjoy the new ride.


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## MR. evil (Mar 25, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Curious why the Golf over the Jetta.  Was there a substantial difference in price?  I seem to recall part of the reason of wanting a new car was you wanted more space than what you had in your Accord Coupe.  Speaking of which, is the Coupe for sale?  :lol:



The Accord Coupe was a great car and had plenty of space. The 2 drs and the gas mileage were the main reasons for getting rid of it. It got high 20's city low 30's highway which isn't too bad for a 3.5 liter V6.

The Jetta wasn't ever really on the radar. Early on we decided that we wanted to get a small 5 door hatch back. I am also not a huge fan of the Jetta's looks, plus IMO the Golf handles much better. After testing most of the same cars the Rivercoil, he narrowed it down to the Mazda 3 hatch and the Golf TDI. The won out due to better mileage & better ride / handling. I also really like the Torquey feel of the Golfs 2.0 liter turbo deisel over the Mazadas 2.5 liter gas engine. 

My commute is 25 miles each way, half back country roads and half in the car pool lane on I-91 with only a small handful of lights and stop signs the entire way. It's the perfect driving situation to get really great milage with the TDI.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2012)

Gotcha

We have a 2004 Mazda3 Hatch that we really enjoy, but the mileage isn't all that great.  I actually get better mileage out of my Hyundai Sonata with a V6.  The new Skyactive 3 is a compelling eventual replacement with its 40mpg, but you sacrifice some horses to get to that figure.  So, a Golf TDI would be on our radar as well as I assume and you confirm that its performs a bit better.  Another factor weighing against the Mazda is I don't believe you can get a Skyactive drive train with MT and a sunroof.  The wife HAS to have a sunroof.  :smash:


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## roark (Mar 25, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> The wife HAS to have a sunroof.  :smash:



my wife HAS to have heated seats so... count yourself lucky. Riv's VW has one of the nicer sunroof out there BTW


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## Geoff (Mar 26, 2012)

roark said:


> my wife HAS to have heated seats so... count yourself lucky. Riv's VW has one of the nicer sunroof out there BTW



Deal-killers for me are now a pretty long list.   Heated seats, outside air temp, sunroof, Xenons.  It's one of those things that once you've had a car with the feature, it's tough to give it up.

I wish you could get all cars with the Ford keyless combination lock on the drivers door frame.   I love that for skiing since I just lock my keys in the car and press the combination when I'm done skiing to unlock the car.   That's almost a deal killer, too.


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## Geoff (Mar 26, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Yea, I attribute my recent MPG jump not just to regular diesel but also to the warmer weather. It is astounding how much MPG drops off when taking short trips in the winter during which the car barely warms up during the trip.
> 
> Drove to Boston last night to see Les Mis and for kicks I tried to average around 60 MPH or so. Computer shows 50 MPG (actually was closer to 51.5 on the way down and those numbers are both counting a few minutes of city driving) both ways which is more likely 48 real MPG or so. So Prius like MPG is possible even on the hghway if you drive just a little under the limit and really work the accelerator with the topography.



Are we allowed to start making "smug hypermiler" jokes yet?   We all knew your OCD about miles per gallon was going to happen.   The first step in recovery is to admit you have a problem.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 26, 2012)

Geoff said:


> I wish you could get all cars with the Ford keyless combination lock on the drivers door frame.   I love that for skiing since I just lock my keys in the car and press the combination when I'm done skiing to unlock the car.   That's almost a deal killer, too.



+1

Why more car companies don't offer it is a mystery to me.  I know Nissan used to many moons ago on the Maxima.

It's great for skiing, but even better for the beach.


----------



## ctenidae (Mar 26, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Deal-killers for me are now a pretty long list.



Primary deal killer for me is a manual transmission. usually everythign else I might want is available as an option.

Amazing how small the selection is if you start at "Must have stick."


----------



## hammer (Mar 26, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Deal-killers for me are now a pretty long list.   Heated seats, outside air temp, sunroof, Xenons.  It's one of those things that once you've had a car with the feature, it's tough to give it up.
> 
> I wish you could get all cars with the Ford keyless combination lock on the drivers door frame.   I love that for skiing since I just lock my keys in the car and press the combination when I'm done skiing to unlock the car.   That's almost a deal killer, too.


What I like even better is the key fob proximity sensor...with key fob in pocket just touching a front door handle unlocks the door.

Or even better is the remote start that turns on the seat heaters and defrosters when it's cold out...

Just wish the rest of the vehicle was holding up as well...poor 1YO Jeep is in the shop for the third time in a month. :-(


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## deadheadskier (Mar 26, 2012)

the key fob proximity sensor is cool, but.........you still have to hold onto a key.

The push button code allows you to leave your keys in your vehicle, which is excellent for the beach, hiking, skiing, etc.


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## hammer (Mar 26, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> the key fob proximity sensor is cool, but.........you still have to hold onto a key.
> 
> The push button code allows you to leave your keys in your vehicle, which is excellent for the beach, hiking, skiing, etc.


Good point...never considered that.  Wonder why the push button code didn't end up being standard in more vehicles then.


----------



## ctenidae (Mar 26, 2012)

hammer said:


> Good point...never considered that.  Wonder why the push button code didn't end up being standard in more vehicles then.



Because thieves figure out 1111 pretty quickly.


----------



## Geoff (Mar 26, 2012)

ctenidae said:


> Because thieves figure out 1111 pretty quickly.



1 2 3 4 5, actually


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## Geoff (Mar 26, 2012)

hammer said:


> Good point...never considered that.  Wonder why the push button code didn't end up being standard in more vehicles then.



I love the combination lock on the door.   It engages a 5 minute interlock if you screw it up a few times in a row so nobody is going to guess it.

I had always assumed that Ford had a patent on it but it must have expired by now.

I just found a Ford product that looks like it glues to your door and transmits a key fob RF code when you type in your combination.   No idea which cars have compatible key fobs.

http://accessories.ford.com/keyless-entry-keypad.html


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## bvibert (Mar 26, 2012)

Geoff said:


> No idea which cars have compatible key fobs.



There's a "View Compatible Vehicles" link:


> Compatible with: E-Series 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
> Edge 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013
> Escape Hybrid 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
> Escape 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012
> ...


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## riverc0il (Mar 26, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Are we allowed to start making "smug hypermiler" jokes yet?   We all knew your OCD about miles per gallon was going to happen.   The first step in recovery is to admit you have a problem.


I can be really into good MPG without being a hypermiler. Many hypermiler techniques are dangerous or illegal. FWIW, I actually usually am over the speed limit by at least 5 MPH on back roads, often times as much as 10-15 MPH over the limit. Hypermilers don't do that.


----------



## Geoff (Mar 26, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> I can be really into good MPG without being a hypermiler. Many hypermiler techniques are dangerous or illegal. FWIW, I actually usually am over the speed limit by at least 5 MPH on back roads, often times as much as 10-15 MPH over the limit. Hypermilers don't do that.



Thank god you didn't buy a Toyota Pious


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## riverc0il (Mar 26, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Thank god you didn't buy a Toyota Pious


Ick. I would rather drive 30 MPG combined car than a Prius.


----------



## ctenidae (Mar 27, 2012)

Just turned in my C300 that goes off lease next week. Sad to see it go, since it was a pretty good car, but not that sad. It was starting to show some of that legendary Mercedes build quality, with steadily increasing shakes, rattles, and squeaks.


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## Glenn (Mar 27, 2012)

hammer said:


> What I like even better is the key fob proximity sensor...with key fob in pocket just touching a front door handle unlocks the door.
> 
> Or even better is the remote start that turns on the seat heaters and defrosters when it's cold out...
> 
> Just wish the rest of the vehicle was holding up as well...poor 1YO Jeep is in the shop for the third time in a month. :-(



That's a bummer. What's it been in for? I'm looking into a WK2 down the road as a replacement for my WJ.


----------



## hammer (Mar 27, 2012)

Glenn said:


> That's a bummer. What's it been in for? I'm looking into a WK2 down the road as a replacement for my WJ.


Last visit ended up being nothing...I think...

Had the water pump replaced about a month ago (made noises for months) and a leak repaired in the AC system a few weeks ago (second leak in 3 months).  Techs didn't clean up the engine area afterwards so some of the excess liquids (coolant and refigerant) were left around and some of the refrigerant apparently dripped its way down by the front differential.  When I saw it it looked like an oil leak to me.

Will be keeping an eye on things to make sure that there isn't another problem there.

The DW and I really like our new Jeep, drives well, looks nice, and does a decent job towing our camper in the summer.  First model year of a redesign, though, so it has not been as reliable as it should be IMO.  Debating whether to purchase a service contract or not.


----------



## Glenn (Mar 27, 2012)

The press has given the WKII glowing reviews. I'm interested in seeing how they hold up long term. Bummer yours has been in a few times. Hopefully, that's the last of the problems.


----------



## o3jeff (Mar 28, 2012)

What happens to the TDI mileage if you're in a lot of stop and go, lot of agressive Mass Pike at 75 mph driving and driving in Boston and city driving in general?


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## Geoff (Mar 28, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> What happens to the TDI mileage if you're in a lot of stop and go, lot of agressive Mass Pike at 75 mph driving and driving in Boston and city driving in general?



A hybrid is always going to out-perform a diesel in city traffic.   

I don't consider 75 mph aggressive.   In my GTIs, 75 mph instead of 65 mph might cost me a couple of MPG in the summer and 3 or 4 MPG in the winter when the air is thicker and less humid.   I really notice my fuel economy going to hell when I'm going 80 mph when it's subzero.

I would think a diesel would proportionally have the exact same behavior since the aerodynamics of a Jetta Sportwagen are identical to a VW GTI.   The amount of power needed to maintain that speed is the same no matter what engine you are using.


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 28, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> What happens to the TDI mileage if you're in a lot of stop and go, lot of agressive Mass Pike at 75 mph driving and driving in Boston and city driving in general?


You'd want a hybrid for that type of driving for sure. I bet even a standard gas engine with high MPG would be as good as a TDI in heavy city driving.  TDIs good mileage comes from minimal power to keep propulsion once at speed. Speeding up sucks the fuel significantly faster.


----------



## Geoff (Mar 29, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> You'd want a hybrid for that type of driving for sure. I bet even a standard gas engine with high MPG would be as good as a TDI in heavy city driving.  TDIs good mileage comes from minimal power to keep propulsion once at speed. Speeding up sucks the fuel significantly faster.



No, a TDI's good mileage comes from the fact that the fuel it burns has 30% more energy in it than gasoline.


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## riverc0il (Mar 29, 2012)

Geoff said:


> No, a TDI's good mileage comes from the fact that the fuel it burns has 30% more energy in it than gasoline.


Not buying that at all dude. Rocket fuel has more energy in it than any car but it gets a lot worse MPG. More energy does not equal more MPG.


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## Geoff (Mar 30, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Not buying that at all dude. Rocket fuel has more energy in it than any car but it gets a lot worse MPG. More energy does not equal more MPG.



Of course it does.   Assuming the engines weigh the same, miles per gallon is a function of the energy content of the fuel and the thermal efficiency of the engine.   Diesel contains more energy than gasoline.   A direct injection turbo diesel engine is about 40% efficient up to about 1800 RPM.  The fanciest direct injection turbo gasoline engines get to about 35% efficient.   More energy in the fuel and a more thermally efficient engine.   In the diesel vs gasoline comparison, the energy content gain and thermal efficiency gain are about the same.   If you're comparing a 1950's technology low compression pushrod V8 to a modern diesel, the thermal efficiency gain in a diesel is huge.   The thermal efficiency advantage isn't so pronounced with modern gasoline engines.

External combustion engines are even more thermally efficient but nobody is going to run a stirling cycle steam engine in an automobile.


----------



## o3jeff (Apr 5, 2012)

Interesting read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/business/energy-environment/for-hybrid-and-electric-cars-to-pay-off-owners-must-wait.html?_r=1&hp


----------



## Nick (Apr 5, 2012)

.....


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 5, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Interesting read.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/business/energy-environment/for-hybrid-and-electric-cars-to-pay-off-owners-must-wait.html?_r=1&hp


Yea, people definitely need to think this stuff through when looking at more expensive tech. I did a lot of math regarding taking the diesel plunge because you get hit at purchase and at the pump. I can't recall what my break even point was but I think it was something like 120k miles or something like that? Might have been even more. It certainly isn't worth it for someone that upgrades every three years. My decision to buy the TDI was with intention to drive it well over 200k and own for a dozen years or more.

The great thing about the TDI is the fun factor, you certainly don't get that with a Prius even though Prius will return slightly better MPG, costs less at the pump, and costs less for a base model. But it is an ugly car with a stigma, so no love lost there from me. 

Prius has actually become a very good buy on paper. $24k base for 51/48 MPG is pretty damn good. A lot of comparable economy cars base around $16-18.

I think this article might be taking a pot shot at larger hybrids (cars, cuvs, suvs) and expensive tech. I think for most people, there are better choices. There are a lot of CUVs getting 30 MPG. Paying the hybrid tax for a sub-30 highway MPG vehicle is kinda bananas IMO, just pick a more efficient gaser with similar dimensions. 

The current generation of compacts getting 40ish MPG highway are really pushing hybrids/diesels to improve even more. Again, if you flip cars, the fuel efficient compact is going to be a much better buy.

Another issue is that as MPG increases, your savings decreases. It is not linear. The improvement from 20 to 30 MPG is WAY better than the improvement from 30 to 40 MPG and from 40 to 50 MPG is even less savings. Any savings is good and less fuel consumption is a great thing. But the savings at the pump decreases proportionally to the MPG improvement. Here is something I put together before buying:

50 MPG at 200,000 = 4000 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $16,000
45 MPG at 200,000 = 4444 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $17,776
40 MPG at 200,000 = 5000 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $20,000
35 MPG at 200,000 = 5714 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $22,857
30 MPG at 200,000 = 6666 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $26,666
25 MPG at 200,000 = 8000 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $32,000
20 MPG at 200,000 = 10000 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $40,000
15 MPG at 200,000 = 13333 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $53,333
10 MPG at 200,000 = 20000 Gallons * $4.00/Gallon = $80,000

That gives a good ball park for your lifetime savings if you can keep the same car and drive it until 200k. Going from an average of 30 MPG to 40 MPG is only worth $6,666 at $4/gallon for 200k miles. Puts it in perspective. Going from your standard 30 MPG average economy car to a 50 MPG prius is worth $10k over 200k miles, that is worth the premium (at $4/gallon).

44.1 MPG on my last tank. One tank = Two round trips to Boston from central NH and two weeks worth of in town driving.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 5, 2012)

You definitely pay big upfront for Hybrid or TDI technology and need to be someone who holds onto a car for a long time to realize savings.

I wonder what vehicles are going to be like in 2025 when CAFE regulations mandate a 54.5mpg fleet average.  
The two best selling cars in America are the F150 and Silverado.  Are we going to see such trucks with 14K pound towing capability average 40 mpg?

Crazy to think that technology is expected to change/improve that much over the next 13 years.   Of course by then, gas will probably be $10/gallon and we will all be saving nothing from our weekly fuel expenses....

...and still bitching about it

:lol:


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## riverc0il (Apr 6, 2012)

That CAFE standards stuff is a bunch of crap. People will begin to drive more efficient vehicles as fuel continues to increase. I don't know where the breaking point is, but I'm sure we'll get there before 2025 with or without regulations just based on economics.


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## MR. evil (Apr 6, 2012)

Not sure about Hybrids, but TDIs really hold there value much better than there gas powered cousins. So even if you do only hold onto the car for 3 years you will still probably be doing better $$$ wise vs. the gas version of that same car.


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## riverc0il (Apr 16, 2012)

In response to Geoff's hypermiler commentary... had a fun time going 60+ mph up the Jay side of Route 242 this past Saturday around the turns. Its nice to get the MPG when I want it but still have fun when I feel like laying into some turns.

It was nice to hear news that VW brought the Passat Alltrack to the recent NYC show. Previous announcements indicated there was no chance this would make it to the USA. But they brought it to the show as a "concept car" looking for interest, which is at least a good sign (how is a car already available for sale in Europe a "concept"?). 

Looks a little girthy for my tastes, too much Outback in the overall size, big ugly bootie. I might be able to deal with that for a TDI AWD wagon. Not happening any time in the next few years if at all, but who knows? Considering TDIs are killing it compared to gas in the JSW and Subaru had really good sales with their bloated Outback, maybe VWoA will follow suit?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/02/vw-bringing-passat-alltrak-to-new-york-as-a-concept-w-poll/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/volkswagen-alltrack.html


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## wa-loaf (Apr 16, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> In response to Geoff's hypermiler commentary... had a fun time going 60+ mph up the Jay side of Route 242 this past Saturday around the turns. Its nice to get the MPG when I want it but still have fun when I feel like laying into some turns.
> 
> It was nice to hear news that VW brought the Passat Alltrack to the recent NYC show. Previous announcements indicated there was no chance this would make it to the USA. But they brought it to the show as a "concept car" looking for interest, which is at least a good sign (how is a car already available for sale in Europe a "concept"?).
> 
> ...



It looks a hell of a lot nicer than the Outback.


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## riverc0il (Apr 16, 2012)

wa-loaf said:


> It looks a hell of a lot nicer than the Outback.


Yea, regardless of size, the lines and appearance are much better.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 16, 2012)

wa-loaf said:


> It looks a hell of a lot nicer than the Outback.



Reminds me a bit of the short lived Audi Allroad Quattro.


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## Geoff (Apr 17, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Reminds me a bit of the short lived Audi Allroad Quattro.



The Audi Allroad is back as a 2013 model and you can order one today.   It's on the A4 platform with different sheet metal.  At the moment, the US version doesn't have a diesel option.


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## Geoff (Apr 17, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> In response to Geoff's hypermiler commentary...



The AC is broken in my GTI (and in the SUV).   With the high temps and humidity, I got 34 mpg driving from KMart to Logan Airport yesterday.   I didn't realize how costly it is to run the air conditioner in that car.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 17, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Yea, regardless of size, the lines and appearance are much better.



I've got two kids so the size is fine for me. On a long trip we can fill my outback and roof box with stuff no prob.



Geoff said:


> The AC is broken in my GTI (and in the SUV).   With the high temps and humidity, I got 34 mpg driving from KMart to Logan Airport yesterday.   I didn't realize how costly it is to run the air conditioner in that car.



Snow tires and the yakima box give my car a bigger mileage hit than the AC. My mpg average is always 2-3 miles higher in the summer.


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## Philpug (Apr 17, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Not sure about Hybrids, *but TDIs really hold there value much better than there gas powered cousins. *So even if you do only hold onto the car for 3 years you will still probably be doing better $$$ wise vs. the gas version of that same car.



The resale value for a diesel is usually more than the up front cost difference no the net cost for the diesel is either the same and lower than the gas counterpart and in the meantime you are getting a better performing vehicle in both economy and performance.


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## riverc0il (Apr 17, 2012)

Geoff said:


> The AC is broken in my GTI (and in the SUV).   With the high temps and humidity, I got 34 mpg driving from KMart to Logan Airport yesterday.   I didn't realize how costly it is to run the air conditioner in that car.


I haven't really noticed an AC penalty in my car. The owners manual actually recommends always having the AC engaged. There is probably some sorta penalty. But I still get in the 40s running it constantly so it isn't enough of a penalty to warrant discomfort.

Another thing you won't hear a hypermiler say.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Gotcha
> 
> We have a 2004 Mazda3 Hatch that we really enjoy, but the mileage isn't all that great.  I actually get better mileage out of my Hyundai Sonata with a V6.  The new Skyactive 3 is a compelling eventual replacement with its 40mpg, but you sacrifice some horses to get to that figure.  So, a Golf TDI would be on our radar as well as I assume and you confirm that its performs a bit better.  Another factor weighing against the Mazda is I don't believe you can get a Skyactive drive train with MT and a sunroof.  The wife HAS to have a sunroof.  :smash:



Whelp, bought the new Mazda 3 hatch today. :lol: Traded in the Sonata. It was still running fine at 174K, but I wanted something new and under warranty again.  It will eventually become my wife's car when I finish school in a couple of years as we do want to have 1 bigger car instead of 2 compacts.  But, with a 50 mile commute to the hospital I'll be interning at for the next two years, MPG was the driving factor.  Considered a Golf or Jetta TDI, but I do really like the Mazda 3 and the upfront costs are considerably lower.   Pick the car up on Tuesday.


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## o3jeff (Jun 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Whelp, bought the new Mazda 3 hatch today. :lol: Traded in the Sonata. It was still running fine at 174K, but I wanted something new and under warranty again.  It will eventually become my wife's car when I finish school in a couple of years as we do want to have 1 bigger car instead of 2 compacts.  But, with a 50 mile commute to the hospital I'll be interning at for the next two years, MPG was the driving factor.  Considered a Golf or Jetta TDI, but I do really like the Mazda 3 and the upfront costs are considerably lower.   Pick the car up on Tuesday.


Did you get the Speed3?


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## o3jeff (Jun 22, 2012)

And congrats on the new ride!


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## deadheadskier (Jun 22, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Did you get the Speed3?



No, the Skyactiv.   Wanted the better gas mileage.  Speed3 would certainly be more fun, but not worth the fuel penalty for me right now.

and thanks!


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## riverc0il (Jun 22, 2012)

Congrats! Curious to hear what you get for gas mileage. While better than the old 3, I've heard (just like many other companies claiming the big four O) that the EPA is higher than actual results on the new 3. Probably light years ahead of the old 3. I'd be nice if they would bring the diesel over. I'd certainly consider pawning the WV off on S and buying a 3 diesel. :lol:


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## Geoff (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm eyeing the Mazda CX-5.   The SkyActiv in that less aerodynamic body still gets 30 mpg highway.   I'm still a couple of years away from consolidating my GTI and SUV into one car but that looks like a pretty good candidate.   30 mpg on regular gas.   You can get it with Xenons which is now a deal-killer option for me.    At some point, I'll rent one and see how it behaves in my driving pattern.   The only thing I dislike is that the option package I want puts me in those stupid 19" wheels.   Once again, I'll need to get spare smaller rims to put snow tires on them.


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## Warp Daddy (Jun 22, 2012)

Hey good luck with the new wheels DHS the M3 is a cool set of wheels ! You should have very good luck with it . We have a friend with one and  he speaks highly about it



 We joined the new toy club too  : we custom ordered and picked   up our new Outback Limited 2 weeks ago Indigo Blue Pearl with white  leather power heated seats ,Harmon Kardon 440 watt sound system w subwoofer and tweeter, Bluetooth , home link setup and winter pkg for heated wipers and some other nice toys too..  Also got  Serius radio  and HD pkg
C
Sold my  2007 Saab Sport Combi w 34,00o miles  for a great price 15600.,got a sharp deal on the OB after several on line negotiations.

  We've taken two trips so far  and averaged 31.8mpg on first 600 miles .Computed on my calculator . Just order some Weathertech   Digital fitted winter mats for the OB today so we are set for awhile


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## deadheadskier (Jun 23, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Congrats! Curious to hear what you get for gas mileage. While better than the old 3, I've heard (just like many other companies claiming the big four O) that the EPA is higher than actual results on the new 3. Probably light years ahead of the old 3. I'd be nice if they would bring the diesel over. I'd certainly consider pawning the WV off on S and buying a 3 diesel. :lol:



From everything I've read and what the dealer has said, a 2.5 Diesel Skyactiv is coming over next year with the 2014 MY Mazda 6 sedan.  It will be based off this concept design:







Geoff said:


> I'm eyeing the Mazda CX-5.   The SkyActiv in that less aerodynamic body still gets 30 mpg highway.   I'm still a couple of years away from consolidating my GTI and SUV into one car but that looks like a pretty good candidate.   30 mpg on regular gas.   You can get it with Xenons which is now a deal-killer option for me.    At some point, I'll rent one and see how it behaves in my driving pattern.   The only thing I dislike is that the option package I want puts me in those stupid 19" wheels.   Once again, I'll need to get spare smaller rims to put snow tires on them.



I think by the time you're ready to consolidate, the CX-5 will probably be on the 2.5 Diesel engine.  I have to imagine the current 2.0 Skyactiv is way under powered for that car.   It's adequate and punchy in the 2900# Hatchback, but I would think the same engine in a 3500# Crossover would seem quite under powered. 



Warp Daddy said:


> Hey good luck with the new wheels DHS the M3 is a cool set of wheels ! You should have very good luck with it . We have a friend with one and  he speaks highly about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice!  Hope you dig your new wheels Warp!!


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## bigbog (Jun 23, 2012)

Congrats DHS.....should work out nice for you.


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## wa-loaf (Jun 24, 2012)

Congrats DHS!

My new girlfriend has a 6 speed TDI Sportwagon. I need to see if she'll let me drive it ...


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## wa-loaf (Jun 24, 2012)

Warp Daddy said:


> We've taken two trips so far  and averaged 31.8mpg on first 600 miles .Computed on my calculator



I take it you went with the 4 cylinder getting that mileage?


----------



## Geoff (Jun 24, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> I think by the time you're ready to consolidate, the CX-5 will probably be on the 2.5 Diesel engine.  I have to imagine the current 2.0 Skyactiv is way under powered for that car.   It's adequate and punchy in the 2900# Hatchback, but I would think the same engine in a 3500# Crossover would seem quite under powered.




I agree that the diesel would be far more attractive.   300 foot-pounds of torque would feel very peppy in a 3400 pound car.   150 foot-pounds with an automatic could be an issue on highway on-ramps.   That is why I wanted to rent one first.   I used to drive cars with similar weight to torque ratios in the 1980's.   I'm not sure I'd be happy with it now.


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## Warp Daddy (Jun 29, 2012)

wa-loaf said:


> I take it you went with the 4 cylinder getting that mileage?





Yep  the 2.5.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 29, 2012)

Warp Daddy said:


> Hey good luck with the new wheels DHS the M3 is a cool set of wheels ! You should have very good luck with it . We have a friend with one and  he speaks highly about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep I get the same kind of highway mileage with my Outback even though it's only rated 27mpg highway. On the other hand city mileage is less than the 22mpg it's rated for. somewhere around 20mpg & even less with the AC on.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 29, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Curious to hear what you get for gas mileage.



They were able to get the car for me faster than expected, so I picked it up last Saturday.  First week and tank returned 34.7 mpg avg on the cars read out vs. 34.5 by my calculations.  I did a fair bit more driving in slow heavy traffic last weekend than I normally do cruising around Hampton Beach and Portsmouth, so I'm expecting 35-36 with my normal driving patterns.  Our old 3 averages about 25 combined. 

So overall, a 35mpg car on 87 octane that's fun to drive for only $20K seems like a pretty good buy to me.


----------



## xwhaler (Jul 2, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Our old 3 averages about 25 combined.



Was the old 3 a 2.3 liter or MazdaSpeed?   We have an 06 2.0 Mazda3 automatic that I use for my 75 mile daily R/T commute. Last tank I got 35.6 MPG which I'm of course thrilled about for a car with 125k miles on it.
Over the winter I was getting 30-31 but since the winter blended fuel is now gone I'm doing much better.


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## o3jeff (Jul 2, 2012)

Don't fill up with diesel in CT, they just added another .05 a gallon tax on it.


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## Geoff (Jul 2, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Don't fill up with diesel in CT, they just added another .05 a gallon tax on it.



Having driven through Connecticut a number of times recently, gasoline prices are equally ridiculous.    Unleaded is around $3.25/gallon here in Massholia.   It's a good 20+ cents higher in Connecticut.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 2, 2012)

xwhaler said:


> Was the old 3 a 2.3 liter or MazdaSpeed?   We have an 06 2.0 Mazda3 automatic that I use for my 75 mile daily R/T commute. Last tank I got 35.6 MPG which I'm of course thrilled about for a car with 125k miles on it.
> Over the winter I was getting 30-31 but since the winter blended fuel is now gone I'm doing much better.



2.5 with a manual transmission.  It rarely sees the highway.  Spends most it's time on 125 between Lee and Rochester, so that probably has something to do with the poor mileage.

Just took the new 3 to Ludlow, VT for the night last night.  Averaged 40.7 for the ride home.


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## riverc0il (Jul 2, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Don't fill up with diesel in CT, they just added another .05 a gallon tax on it.


Oh, you mean another $0.50-0.60 per fill up?

It is an endless source of mirth for myself that people bitch and moan about cents per gallon variances and fluctuations that don't even add up to more than a monthly latte or two yet they still drive vehicles that are not efficient. Folks better be living pay check to pay check, not eating out, not buying coffee/cigs/likker, etc. to have legit beefs of a few cents per gallon.

Let's face it, those of us well off enough to be able to afford the premium for the diesel probably aren't flinching over an extra measly five cents per gallon...


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## riverc0il (Jul 2, 2012)

Geoff said:


> Having driven through Connecticut a number of times recently, gasoline prices are equally ridiculous.    Unleaded is around $3.25/gallon here in Massholia.   It's a good 20+ cents higher in Connecticut.


Meh. Concord, NH was $3.17/gallon Saturday but the Mobil in Wilmington, MA where we stopped to fuel up had regular around $3.50ish. It fluctuates pretty substantially even within a given state. I should have tanked up the diesel before driving south, that is for sure. CT rates would have been a bargain compared to Boston Metro.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 2, 2012)

Was that Mobile off the exit to 93?  I forget the exit number, but there's a Sporting ticket outlet (Ace maybe) right across the street? If so, I've observed that station to be the most expensive in Mass.  I used to pass by it frequently on my sales route.

Fuel on the Northshore of Mass is averaging $3.25-$3.30 right now, which is what it is around the NH seacoast.  CT is definitely appreciably more expensive on average than Mass and the rest of New England.


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## hammer (Jul 3, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Oh, you mean another $0.50-0.60 per fill up?
> 
> It is an endless source of mirth for myself that people bitch and moan about cents per gallon variances and fluctuations that don't even add up to more than a monthly latte or two yet they still drive vehicles that are not efficient. Folks better be living pay check to pay check, not eating out, not buying coffee/cigs/likker, etc. to have legit beefs of a few cents per gallon.
> 
> Let's face it, those of us well off enough to be able to afford the premium for the diesel probably aren't flinching over an extra measly five cents per gallon...



At the local station diesel is slightly more expensive than premium...which makes it about 40 cents more than 87 octane.  Chances are that the increased efficiency makes up for the price difference, but if one is particular about overall fuel costs it is something to consider when buying a vehicle.


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## riverc0il (Jul 3, 2012)

Yea, DHS, that was the one across from the ticket shop. I didn't have a choice, unfortunately.


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## riverc0il (Jul 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> At the local station diesel is slightly more expensive than premium...which makes it about 40 cents more than 87 octane.  Chances are that the increased efficiency makes up for the price difference, but if one is particular about overall fuel costs it is something to consider when buying a vehicle.


Over the course of 150k miles or so, diesel wins back its loses in extra cost. There are more fuel efficient cars available (Prius, CT200h, etc.) and there are barely less fuel efficient cars available (all the cars that get 40 MPG highway EPA estimates) but there are very very few high performance cars that are fun to drive and have great cargo space (PriusV has good cargo space but looks horrid and is not fun to drive, Mazda3 is fun to drive but space is still limited). The 40 MPG highway EPA crowd are all compact cars. Some mid-sized are getting up to 35 highway by total MPG is much less. I wasn't complaining about the extra cost of diesel fuel but rather poking fun at 03jeff's comment about a five cent tax which when you're already paying $4/gallon (or I was prior to the recent price decline) is chump change and doesn't have much effect on me any ways... especially when I'm dropping $5 a day in red bull. In the overall picture, even fuel dropping fifty cents is only five bucks per fill up for compact and mid-sized cars.


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## o3jeff (Jul 3, 2012)

My problem is the tax CT jams on the gas, .46 for gas and now .51 for diesel. I am sure if the prices where in line with boarding states the state would make a lot more money with snack and drink purchases on fill ups.

I drive about 25,000 a year for work and probably more than 2/3 of my gas isn't bought in CT.


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