# Cannon Mountain Glades



## Johnskiismore (Sep 16, 2008)

Recently there was a press release about all of the upgrades at New Hampshire ski areas for this upcoming season.  It was said that Cannon was going to have 5 or so new glades added, which like most Cannon Mountain fans probably got you nervous (if you like the trees).  So I just found out that a glade is going to be cut off of Gary's, and the others are the glades that the locals know about.  They are going to be listed on the trail map, I don't precisely which trails, but I have a strong hunch.

So, for Cannon skiers/riders, what do you think?


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## roark (Sep 17, 2008)

I don't know the glades at Cannon, but putting more on the map is rarely if ever a good thing IMHO. The people that can ski it will, regardless of whether it's on the map. Those that can't will now be enticed in.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 17, 2008)

IMHO the glades at Cannon suck because the terrain is so steep and rough.  It takes a ton of snow to open Kinsman Glades or anything else.  There is just too much rock and ledge for any good glade skiing.  Now obviously there are exceptions (such as hiking over to a nearby former ski area), but in my experience the terrain and lack of snow just don't make it work.


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## Geoff (Sep 17, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> IMHO the glades at Cannon suck because the terrain is so steep and rough.  It takes a ton of snow to open Kinsman Glades or anything else.  There is just too much rock and ledge for any good glade skiing.  Now obviously there are exceptions (such as hiking over to a nearby former ski area), but in my experience the terrain and lack of snow just don't make it work.



The other way to look at this is that Cannon's big problem is that they don't get enough snow.  150" does not make for reliable tree skiing other than very flat and manicured spots.  Outside of Vermont, only Wildcat and Sugarloaf break the 200" barrier.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 17, 2008)

My thoughts on places like Cannon (mind you I haven't skied there in over twenty years and am basing this comment purely based on what I read about the place) is that cut and marked glades are a good thing IF they are maintained.  

When I say places like Cannon, I mean mountains that average under 200 inches a year of natural snow.  Sure if they're on the map, they'll get tracked out and beat up more quickly, but I still believe they will be 'open' and skiable more often than if left unmaintained.


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## Beetlenut (Sep 17, 2008)

I think it's good news! I definitly plan to hit up Cannon again this year.


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## Tin Woodsman (Sep 17, 2008)

Geoff said:


> The other way to look at this is that Cannon's big problem is that they don't get enough snow.  150" does not make for reliable tree skiing other than very flat and manicured spots.  Outside of Vermont, only Wildcat and Sugarloaf break the 200" barrier.



I would agree, though I am a little confused on the snowfall figures.  The data from Tony Crocker indicates that Cannon receives a confirmed 156" per year, but that's measured at the base at an elevation of 1800'.  See this link for details.Given Cannon's location on the far northwestern edge of the Whites, with little to the west or northwest but the CT River Valley and the plains of Canuckistan, I would think it would receive a healthy amount of upslope, wrap-around snow, at least at higher elevations.  If that 156" figure is really measured at 1800' as Tony indicates, then I'd be surprised if Cannon didn't receive over 200" at the summit.  

Also, FWIW, I think Saddleback claims more than 200" per year as well.


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## Geoff (Sep 17, 2008)

Tin Woodsman said:


> I would agree, though I am a little confused on the snowfall figures.  The data from Tony Crocker indicates that Cannon receives a confirmed 156" per year, but that's measured at the base at an elevation of 1800'.  See this link for details.Given Cannon's location on the far northwestern edge of the Whites, with little to the west or northwest but the CT River Valley and the plains of Canuckistan, I would think it would receive a healthy amount of upslope, wrap-around snow, at least at higher elevations.  If that 156" figure is really measured at 1800' as Tony indicates, then I'd be surprised if Cannon didn't receive over 200" at the summit.
> 
> Also, FWIW, I think Saddleback claims more than 200" per year as well.



I was reacting to a comment that Cannon's glades are too steep and have too much ledge.  I think steep ledge in the trees is just fine as long as you get enough snow.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 17, 2008)

Geoff said:


> I was reacting to a comment that Cannon's glades are too steep and have too much ledge.  I think steep ledge in the trees is just fine as long as you get enough snow.



Agreed, but IIRC there is a lot of talus and glacial till in the woods....that would require lots of snow to cover.


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## Johnskiismore (Sep 17, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> Agreed, but IIRC there is a lot of talus and glacial till in the woods....that would require lots of snow to cover.



You would have enjoyed the trees a lot last season!


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## Rushski (Sep 17, 2008)

I haven't skied there in quite some time.  But, my oldest bro is a regular and says that people (not workers) regularly cut hidden trails and thought it was laughable everyone was so excited about the guys caught at Jay.  

My guess is that they are probably opening up a couple of these, potentially making them safer.  Plus that way it would be less work than surveying, clearing brush, ...


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## Geoff (Sep 17, 2008)

Rushski said:


> I haven't skied there in quite some time.  But, my oldest bro is a regular and says that people (not workers) regularly cut hidden trails and thought it was laughable everyone was so excited about the guys caught at Jay.
> 
> My guess is that they are probably opening up a couple of these, potentially making them safer.  Plus that way it would be less work than surveying, clearing brush, ...



I think the Jay thing was about the width of what they cut and the number of trees.  IIRC, they cut 50 feet all the way down.  When most people are cutting a stash, they're doing it with pruning shears, not a chainsaw.


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## powderman (Sep 17, 2008)

I'd like to try NH areas like Cannon and Wildcat, but it will take a while to hit em' given their limited snowfall, bad weather, and the fact that the MRV is closer than both of these ski areas for me


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## riverc0il (Sep 17, 2008)

Johnskiismore said:


> I don't precisely which trails, but I have a strong hunch.
> 
> So, for Cannon skiers/riders, what do you think?


Given the location suggested in the FTO press release, I have a strong hunch as well. :angry:

What do I think? Cannon Ski Patrol is going to be working over time next season. :beer:

But... it makes sense for Cannon to try to expand its expert terrain since the groom most of their best trails. Bummed on a personal level though but it is just the tip of the ice berg.


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## riverc0il (Sep 17, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> IMHO the glades at Cannon suck because the terrain is so steep and rough.  It takes a ton of snow to open Kinsman Glades or anything else.  There is just too much rock and ledge for any good glade skiing.  Now obviously there are exceptions (such as hiking over to a nearby former ski area), but in my experience the terrain and lack of snow just don't make it work.


It does take a lot of snow to get Cannon's glades functionable. But when Cannon has the snow, their glades are legit. My best day of the season in 07-08 was at Cannon skiing trees every run. My biggest grip about more on map glades is how often ski patrol will keep the trees closed when they are legit skiable. The increased traffic will likely deteriorate conditions quicker leading to even fewer days worth going in. Much as Cannon is one of my favorite mountains and I love skiing trees there, I only skied there less than 10% of my days last season. It needs the snow but that doesn't mean the glades aren't the nuts when the snow is there.


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## thebigo (Sep 18, 2008)

Ill be making cannon my home base this year, i sent them an email regarding the new glades. New upper moutain glades are as follows:

Lost Boys off Upper Cannon
Go Green between Skylight and Profile
Global Warming between Upper Ravine and Skylight
Mushroom along Upper Hardscrabble


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## thetrailboss (Sep 18, 2008)

Who came up with those names????  'Go Green?'  "GLOBAL WARMING?'


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## Geoff (Sep 18, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> Who came up with those names????  'Go Green?'  "GLOBAL WARMING?'



No kiddin'.  Don't hit me with them negative waves.


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## jackstraw (Sep 18, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> IMHO the glades at Cannon suck because the terrain is so steep and rough.  .



you should trade your skis in for some slippers and hang by the fire all day.  that is truly the lamest post i've ever seen in a ski forum...pathetic!


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## thetrailboss (Sep 18, 2008)

jackstraw said:


> you should trade your skis in for some slippers and hang by the fire all day.  that is truly the lamest post i've ever seen in a ski forum...pathetic!



Sorry...we aim to please.  :roll:  Now setting the ad hominem attack aside, have you skied said glades?  If you have, you'd understand my point...that is the terrain is filled with glacial till and talus and is so steep that it can't hold snow well.  You'd also understand that because of the debris the terrain requires a lot of snow...and as a result these areas are often unskiable.  I know this from skiing Cannon and not by hanging around the fire all day...you need only look at the several trip reports, which I believe outnumber your postcount, to understand that.  :roll:


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## SIKSKIER (Sep 18, 2008)

Most of Cannons best glade skiing is not even on Cannon Mt but next door on Mittersill.RivercOil spends most of his time in the woods an can attest to that.I have spent many days in fall along with others cutting secret stashes.It actually used to be encouraged 10 years ago.A team of volunteers would be allowed to ride the tram up with all our cutting equipment and told to cut away.As has been mentioned in other posts,a lot of Cannons terrain calls for high snowfall before they can be skied without major damage to your equipment.Lower snowfall totals are not really the culprit as much as the major thaws we have at Cannon.Yes,more snow would be better but the crazy warmups we get 3-4 times during the winter when the south wind blows up the notch are real ball busters.Another problem with some of Cannons glade are seld induced by mangement.If you look at some of the glades when there is no snow on them you will see 10 inch stumps left behind after cutting.This would be fine if you got 300 inches a year but it really needs cutting to ground level to help offset lower snowfall.I've had some scary encounters with these stumps especially on the lower mountain.I'll be interested to see the new stuff.I'll be there the first week in October and see if I can get more info.


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## Johnskiismore (Sep 18, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> Who came up with those names????  'Go Green?'  "GLOBAL WARMING?'



I have to agree with you, had to shake my head when I saw those names!


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## Johnskiismore (Sep 18, 2008)

Also, with the 'new' names, isn't 'Fart' supposed to be with one of them...  that particular one still had great snow the first weekend in April!


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## riverc0il (Sep 18, 2008)

I'll have to see those names on a map to believe them. Not that I doubt the reporter but those names are really out of character for Cannon.


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## snoseek (Sep 18, 2008)

SIKSKIER said:


> Most of Cannons best glade skiing is not even on Cannon Mt but next door on Mittersill..





Yeah this is very true. There is tons of glades and secret trails most ski right by on the way to baron's or maybe the liftline. Some of the work is quite impressive. There is probably stuff I don't even know about and I spent quite a bit of time over there. 

Mittersill with good base is as good a place as any to be on a powder day.


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## snoseek (Sep 18, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> I'll have to see those names on a map to believe them. Not that I doubt the reporter but those names are really out of character for Cannon.



It does seem weird but they have always seemed to do some pretty comical stuff over the years.


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## MichaelJ (Sep 19, 2008)

I would be very concerned about actually naming a glade "Go Green" unless it was really a beginner's (green) glade...


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## mattchuck2 (Sep 19, 2008)

SIKSKIER said:


> Most of Cannons best glade skiing is not even on Cannon Mt but next door on Mittersill..



Right on . . .

I stumbled across a couple of those (just skiing by myself so I had to be a little cautious).  Better snow, and much calmer than my Kinsman Glade experience due to lack of traffic.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 3, 2008)

Just received SkiNH magazine in the mail and they mention the new glades in what's new around the state.  From looking at the online map, I don't see any indication of new glades, but they would have to say 'new' on them as it's been twenty years plus since I've skied there.

Also of note in the magazine is that Wildcat will be closing part of the Mountain Jag glade this year to regrow some trees.  Not sure if I've ever heard of an area 'closing' a glade.


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## riverc0il (Nov 3, 2008)

I got an email last month that indicated Cannon would be launching a new web site. I assume the trail map will be updated when the new web site rolls out.

Nice to hear Wildcat working on regen work. Only other ski area that I am aware of that does that is Mad River Glen whose program has been going for about ten years or so. I assume that section of the glade will need to be closed for many years for the regen work to happen. Mountain Jag is a pretty big glade so I wouldn't think it would impact skiing too much if it is just a small section but who knows until folks get in there and ski it.


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## Johnskiismore (Nov 3, 2008)

I've been waiting for the new trail map for Cannon haven't seen it yet


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## rocojerry (Nov 4, 2008)

snoseek said:


> Yeah this is very true. There is tons of glades and secret trails most ski right by on the way to baron's or maybe the liftline. Some of the work is quite impressive. There is probably stuff I don't even know about and I spent quite a bit of time over there.
> 
> Mittersill with good base is as good a place as any to be on a powder day.



or on a particularly fond Valentines day.... *drool*


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## Johnskiismore (Nov 4, 2008)

rocojerry said:


> or on a particularly fond Valentines day.... *drool*



Was that particular Valentine's Day in 2006?  My girlfriend has some great pictures the day after that storm over on Mittersill!


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## kcollett (Nov 17, 2008)

*Cannon Glades*



thetrailboss said:


> IMHO the glades at Cannon suck because the terrain is so steep and rough.  It takes a ton of snow to open Kinsman Glades or anything else.  There is just too much rock and ledge for any good glade skiing.  Now obviously there are exceptions (such as hiking over to a nearby former ski area), but in my experience the terrain and lack of snow just don't make it work.



Now that's a little brutal isn't it? In a remarkable snow winter like last winter, Cannon glades will only whip you into shape for nearly any terrain you want to tackle. If you can ski the glades and stashes at Cannon, what can't you ski?


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## riverc0il (Nov 17, 2008)

kcollett said:


> Now that's a little brutal isn't it? In a remarkable snow winter like last winter, Cannon glades will only whip you into shape for nearly any terrain you want to tackle. If you can ski the glades and stashes at Cannon, what can't you ski?


+1 And nice first post. I cut my teeth at Cannon. Its a mountain that can turn any hacker into a skier. In a good snow year like last year, Cannon is right up there with almost any where else in New England for crazy lines. I really had my mind blown last year and scored my best day of the season skiing nothing but trees at Cannon last year. Too bad most years are not like last year though. :blink:  But the lean years do make you a stronger skier though, LOL.

Still no web site launch or updated map...


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