# Do I keep this old(er) car



## hammer (Jun 25, 2009)

Unfortunately, I may have come to a decision point on my 1998 Subaru with 175K miles...

I recently had the car in for a Check Engine light...unfortunately, the code that came up was P0420, "Catalytic Converter Insufficiency".  Getting the Catalytic Converter replaced would run $1500 .  Because the car's transmission is also giving signs of going downhill (slip/delay shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear), I don't want to spend a lot of $$ now only to have to spend more to replace the transmission in a year or so.

The mechanic cleared the code, and the car drives completely fine for now.  My short-term plan is to continue driving and see if the light comes back.  If it does, I have until November when I'd need to pass emissions inspection to fix it or dump it.  If it doesn't, then I may be OK for a while longer.

I have plans on buying a new car and keeping the Subaru as a beater car for my son when he gets his license in the fall, but I'm not sure if that's worth it now.

Is this the time when I need to just get rid of the car anyway?  If so, I don't feel comfortable selling it with a known set of issues and trading it would be more trouble than any $$ I'd get for it.  I'm thinking of just donating it and getting at least a small tax deduction...has anyone done that and have suggestions on how to handle it?

If I have to get another beater car for my son, what should I expect to pay for something that should be relatively trouble-free?  What mileage points should I be looking at...below 100K, or even less?  My experience buying cars is limited to new ones...the only used car I ever purchased was a VW Dasher that I bought in 1981 when I first got my license.


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## madman (Jun 25, 2009)

Check into an after market Cat [any muffler shop] this may bring the price down. It should last long enough for a beater car.


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## hammer (Jun 25, 2009)

madman said:


> Check into an after market Cat [any muffler shop] this may bring the price down. It should last long enough for a beater car.


There was a significant price difference (~$500), but the mechanic didn't recommend an aftermarket Cat for my car.  He's an independent so I don't think he would recommend an OEM part unless he thought there was a reason.


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## bvibert (Jun 25, 2009)

I've put aftermarket cats in my cars before, and would have no problem doing it again, especially on older cars.


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> There was a significant price difference (~$500), but the mechanic didn't recommend an aftermarket Cat for my car.  He's an independent so I don't think he would recommend an OEM part unless he thought there was a reason.



Is this a Legacy/Outback?  If it is, there are actually two cat's (front/rear).  I replaced the rear one on mine and I believe it only cost me about $140.  I did the work myself, although I did pay a guy with a lift $20 to torch off the bolts that were there, because they were rusted beyond recognition, and I didn't like the idea of lying under the car with the angle grinder 3" from my face.

Other than that, though, it's just a bolt in piece.  The front one has the 2 lambda sensors.  Those can be a bitch to get out.


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## Glenn (Jun 25, 2009)

$1500 for a cat on a Subaru seems really really high. How many cats does the thing have? If only one, then that's insanely high. 

You could always pull the aft o2 sensor and let that "breath" fresh air. That used to work on the OBDII Audi's IIRC. Just plug up the hole left by said removed o2 sensor. 

How often did you change the trans fluid/filter? Sometimes, a simple change out can do wonder for the trans...just don't ever get it "flushed" at this point in the game.


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## tjf67 (Jun 25, 2009)

You got 175 out of the cat.  WHy don't you look in a few bone yard for used ones.  Probably pick on up on the cheap.

The trani seems like it needs a tune up.   The cost is nothing and it may fixer right up.

You may be abletake care of both problems for less than 700 bucks if you are willing to get your hands dirty.


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## marcski (Jun 25, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> You got 175 out of the cat.  WHy don't you look in a few bone yard for used ones.  Probably pick on up on the cheap.
> 
> The trani seems like it needs a tune up.   The cost is nothing and it may fixer right up.
> 
> You may be abletake care of both problems for less than 700 bucks if you are willing to get your hands dirty.




Agreed.  I kept my old Accord going to well over 200k and a lot of the parts were pulled right out of junkers.  My LIM (local independant mechanic) knows a few good places to just pull parts from old cars. However, with a caty...I'm not sure I'd recommend this route....as you might have issues since its part of the exhaust....and it can get some rust and once you move them...or try to things can progress.


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## hammer (Jun 25, 2009)

Marc said:


> Is this a Legacy/Outback?  If it is, there are actually two cat's (front/rear).  I replaced the rear one on mine and I believe it only cost me about $140.  I did the work myself, although I did pay a guy with a lift $20 to torch off the bolts that were there, because they were rusted beyond recognition, and I didn't like the idea of lying under the car with the angle grinder 3" from my face.
> 
> Other than that, though, it's just a bolt in piece.  The front one has the 2 lambda sensors.  Those can be a bitch to get out.


I'm guessing it's the front one since that's where the sensors are, and the only indication I had was the light.

I can't speak for the cost...the mechanic said that most of the overall cost was in the part itself and that the labor wasn't that much.

Regarding comments on the tranny, I've had a "tune up" and it didn't improve things but nothing's become worse for a while.  It could be fine for a few more years.

This is definitely a situation where I wish I had the skills, equipment, and time to do more work on my car...:-?


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## hammer (Jun 25, 2009)

I was just looking online to get an idea of how much catalytic converters cost, and a lot of the ones available are not legal in CA.  What gives with that?  If that's the case, my guess is that they would not be legal in Mass. either since I thought the emissions standards were the same.


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## TheBEast (Jun 25, 2009)

Wait for the "cash for clunkers" to come into law (Obama signed the bill today) and go get your rebate!  That is if you want to buy a new car.......

http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/


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## campgottagopee (Jun 25, 2009)

TheBEast said:


> Wait for the "cash for clunkers" to come into law (Obama signed the bill today) and go get your rebate!  That is if you want to buy a new car.......
> 
> http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/



Good idea except that car wont qualify

IMO, that year Subie with those miles needing a tranny isn't worth fixing.....cost you more to drop a used tranny in than what it's worth. Donate it.


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## BeanoNYC (Jun 25, 2009)

Slip the mechanic some extra bucks to fudge the computer readings on the emissions test in November.  Drive it to the ground.


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## Glenn (Jun 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> I was just looking online to get an idea of how much catalytic converters cost, and a lot of the ones available are not legal in CA.  What gives with that?  If that's the case, my guess is that they would not be legal in Mass. either since I thought the emissions standards were the same.



Separate emissions standards in CA. Makes life harder for the auto makers since they have to send cars there with different systems. But it's a big market. I'd imagine if RI did that, they'd just tell the state to pound sand. :razz:

Don't you guys remember watching "The Price is Right?" "Thise Geo Metro comes with a steering wheel, headlights and California Emissions!" Oooooooooooo!


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> I'm guessing it's the front one since that's where the sensors are, and the only indication I had was the light.
> 
> I can't speak for the cost...the mechanic said that most of the overall cost was in the part itself and that the labor wasn't that much.
> 
> ...



http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/s...951999/EAST40273.html?tlc=Engine+&+Drivetrain

Here's your front cat for $166.



hammer said:


> I was just looking online to get an idea of how much catalytic converters cost, and a lot of the ones available are not legal in CA.  What gives with that?  If that's the case, my guess is that they would not be legal in Mass. either since I thought the emissions standards were the same.



CA has their own emissions restrictions because of the ridiculous smog they used to have.  Now CARB (Ca Air Resources Board) sets their standards.  Mass has no emissions testings... if your OBD has no error codes showing, you pass.  Although if you had a massive hole in the exhaust somewhere they'd probably fail you for that.


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## MRGisevil (Jun 25, 2009)

you could always get a $25 sensor off the interwebs that'll fool emissions...unless you're one of those people with "morals".


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2009)

Wait a sec, hammer.  You live right close to me.  Do I know this mechanic you're going to?


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## billski (Jun 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> Unfortunately, I may have come to a decision point on my 1998 Subaru with 175K miles...
> 
> I recently had the car in for a Check Engine light...unfortunately, the code that came up was P0420, "Catalytic Converter Insufficiency".  Getting the Catalytic Converter replaced would run $1500 .  Because the car's transmission is also giving signs of going downhill (slip/delay shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear), I don't want to spend a lot of $$ now only to have to spend more to replace the transmission in a year or so.
> 
> ...



This thread lost sight of the original question.  We just went through this.   I have a general rule of thumb.  When your monthly outlay over 3+ months exceeds the cost of a car payment, it's time to punt.

Our car (for the kids) was 215K, 13YO.  Every month it became something else and we're not talking maintenance items.  The Cat went 2 months ago.  It was gonna cost about half of what my car was worth.  The throttle began sticking on full and other issues, and we had serious safety concerns that our inexperience drivers would not respond appropriately to emergencies.  That was the criteria.

I think you need to consider who the driver is, how will they respond when things start dying on the car.  I'd be thinking about getting something else used when he starts driving.

For us, our objective is to keep a car for the kids about 5 years, with no safety related breakdowns.  We also settled on a Camry-sized for safety, with an underpowered engine to keep wild ideas in check.  How much $?  We believed the "sweet spot was $9-12K.   We ended up with a 96 Camry 4cyl, 66K miles.  

For you?  how many miles?  depends how many years do you plan to keep it and how many miles per year?   My girls are putting about 12K/year on the car right now.


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## Geoff (Jun 25, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> You got 175 out of the cat.  WHy don't you look in a few bone yard for used ones.  Probably pick on up on the cheap.
> 
> The trani seems like it needs a tune up.   The cost is nothing and it may fixer right up.
> 
> You may be abletake care of both problems for less than 700 bucks if you are willing to get your hands dirty.




Yeah.  I was going to suggest the junk yard as an alternative for an 11 year old car with 175K miles on it.  It really doesn't make sense to put new parts in it.


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## campgottagopee (Jun 25, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Yeah.  I was going to suggest the junk yard as an alternative for an 11 year old car with 175K miles on it.  It really doesn't make sense to put new parts in it.



Junk yards can't sell used cats, against some silly law or something.


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## hammer (Jul 2, 2009)

*Check Engine Light came back*

Guess I was hoping the problem was a fluke...got the light again just one week after the mechanic cleared it.


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## hammer (Jul 23, 2009)

Talked with a friend who has a Subaru Legacy wagon with the same problem...tough part for him is that the car has California emissions so the OEM part cost is much more.

Now that I have my new "toy" this car is officially the "learning car" for my son.  I still plan on making sure it's driven about once a week.  Need to figure out what to do with it before it's up for inspection in November...or sooner if the rear suspension makes it a bit too squirrely for an inexperienced driver.


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

Bump...it's now November and it's time to get it inspected (and let it fail because of the CEL) or donate it.  Repair is not an option...been starting to spending more $$ to fix random issues on my 9YO Toyota Highlander, and my son's in no hurry to get his license so he doesn't need a beater car for a while.

Any suggestions on the best place to donate the car to?  Looking to get maximum value here...and I want to make sure it goes to a worthy cause.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 20, 2009)

NOT Kars for Kids.  

We will not be able to be friends if you contribute in any way possible towards assuring those annoying radio commercials keep playing.   That perhaps is the most annoying radio ad ever created.


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## billski (Nov 20, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> NOT Kars for Kids.
> 
> We will not be able to be friends if you contribute in any way possible towards assuring those annoying radio commercials keep playing.   That perhaps is the most annoying radio ad ever created.



true dat.  It actually has forced me to change channels.


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## WJenness (Nov 20, 2009)

billski said:


> true dat.  It actually has forced me to change channels.



Me also.

It's been the only ad in recent history where I hear the jingle start and immediately hit another radio button...

I appreciate the concept, but they should have hired a better ad agency.

-w


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

billski said:


> true dat.  It actually has forced me to change channels.


+1

Don't worry, that one was already off my list...


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 20, 2009)

Those donation companies can be pretty picky.

My parents wanted to donate my first car when I got a new one.  At the time the car was 8 years old.  It was a 95' ford escort.  # of the "we will take any car" places told us they didn't want it, before we found a place to take it.


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## snoseek (Nov 21, 2009)

Npr?


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## roark (Nov 22, 2009)

I'd probably just get a code reader (harbor frieght has them cheap) and reset the code just prior to inspection.


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## WJenness (Nov 22, 2009)

roark said:


> I'd probably just get a code reader (harbor frieght has them cheap) and reset the code just prior to inspection.



Might work... might not... a lot of times after you reset the code the system will report that it is 'not ready' until it had run through a few warm up / cool down cycles to give an accurate reading.

but worth a shot.

-w


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## Glenn (Nov 23, 2009)

Disconnecting the battery can sometimes reset a CEL. It all depends on how "broken" the part is that's causing the CEL. Sometimes it'll stay away for a bit...others, it'll come back sooner.


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