# Shawnee Peak Maine acquired by Boyne



## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

Mountain Stewardship Update, from Chet 

Dear Friends of Shawnee Peak, 

I hope that everyone is well and enjoyed a wonderful summer with family and friends! 

Today, I am writing this email with very bittersweet feelings. I recently turned 71 and realized how much of my life and my family’s life has been committed to the stewardship of Shawnee Peak at Pleasant Mountain over the last 27 years. It has been full of fun times, yet not without many challenges at this awesome ski area! 

Despite rumors since my first year of ownership in September 1994, I have never solicited nor received an interest in taking over my stewardship of this great ski area. At a recent casual lunch with industry friends, one mentioned if you ever were to consider a transfer of stewardship we would be very interested. I was caught off-guard, but after discussion with my family we agreed to pursue only if the interested party was upfront with a fair offer, would provide enhanced employee opportunities, continue with capital improvements each year and continue the family friendly atmosphere that I think we have established. They agreed.

I am excited to announce that we have completed a transaction with Stephen Kircher and Boyne Resorts, a 100% family-owned organization. I know they will maintain the special family vibe of Shawnee Peak. Geoff will still retain a very visible role for the near future. 

This was a very difficult decision for our family, especially me, yet I look forward to many more years of friendship and skiing together. I also realize I need to make some time for my four grandsons while I can still out run / out ski them, but also help them! 

My family is so lucky to have built such great friendships with employees and passholders, many whom have been loyal supporters of Shawnee Peak for all 27 years and then some! Thank you all! 

Shawnee Peak has a great future under the stewardship of Stephen Kircher and his family.

Sincerely,
Chet


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## thebigo (Oct 22, 2021)

Wow, did not see this one coming, big move. Relatively local place for the north conway market and Portland on the same pass as SR and SL. I would assume the NEP will have access this year, they added mid-season access the year they acquired Loon, no idea about IKON.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

I was just in Bridgton for work on Tuesday and was thinking how great it would be to have Shawnee on the same pass as Sunday River for folks living in that area.

Bad news for Saddleback though.  Boyne now truly has the Portland market locked up.


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## Newpylong (Oct 22, 2021)

Boy the Independent list is getting smaller.

IMHO people are going to go to Saddleback because it's Saddleback, I don't see an effect on it due to this.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 22, 2021)

Wow.  So I guess that takes Boyne out of the race for Jay Peak.  Honestly, a good move.  Shawnee could become their Brighton of the east.  In my experience, Boyne is a great operator who understands the value of keeping management decisions local.  With the exception of Sugarloaf and its major lift failures I give Boyne high marks.  My experience at Brighton has been great.  Same with Big Sky.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Boy the Independent list is getting smaller.
> 
> IMHO people are going to go to Saddleback because it's Saddleback, I don't see an effect on it due to this.



As a former resident of Portland, I respectfully disagree.  I vastly prefer SB to the other three.  However, if I were still living up there and looking to buy a pass, the convenience of Shawnee would push me towards the Boyne pass.  If things aren't looking great up North whether wind or extreme cold,  southern Maine folks now have an option on their pass to still go skiing an hour or less from home.  Plus add on the potential for after work turns.  And Shawnee is a very underated hill IMO.


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## ThatGuy (Oct 22, 2021)

3hr vs 1hr drive is a big factor for most people, no matter what mountain.


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## kancamagus (Oct 22, 2021)

Looking forward to their pending new bubble eight-pack express lift Shawnee2030 press release.


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## Newpylong (Oct 22, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> As a former resident of Portland, I respectfully disagree.  I vastly prefer SB to the other three.  However, if I were still living up there and looking to buy a pass, the convenience of Shawnee would push me towards the Boyne pass.  If things aren't looking great up North whether wind or extreme cold,  southern Maine folks now have an option on their pass to still go skiing an hour or less from home.  Plus add on the potential for after work turns.  And Shawnee is a very underated hill IMO.


As witnessed multiple times this past season, the vast majority of plates in the lot aren't from Maine on a weekend. Shawnee's position relative to Portland or other denser areas in Maine will have no little to no effect on SB's bottom line. Don't believe me, head up and look for yourself when the season starts. They'll be as busy as ever.


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## thebigo (Oct 22, 2021)

> Shawnee Peak's passes and the New England Pass will remain the same for the upcoming season



Per SR FB: The NE pass and IKON are not valid at Shawnee this year.


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

It’s interesting watching the ski industry change, only time will tell if all these changes are for the better.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> As witnessed multiple times this past season, the vast majority of plates in the lot aren't from Maine on a weekend. Shawnee's position relative to Portland or other denser areas in Maine will have no little to no effect on SB's bottom line. Don't believe me, head up and look for yourself when the season starts. They'll be as busy as ever.



So you're saying that Saddleback isn't competing with Boyne for season pass business?

You serious Clark?

Throw Ikon on top of that and it becomes even more of a compelling argument against going with a SB pass.  Also now Boyne has two properties within day trip range of Boston. 

I did ski there last season.  Ive already booked our February ski vacation there again this year. 

As awesome as SB is and with the game changing quad, they still have to steal significant market share from Boyne to survive.   That is very difficult to do in their location as an individual mountain in a largely megapass driven market. 

What were their skier visit numbers last season?


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 22, 2021)

I certainly didn't see this coming either. I love Shawnee. Hope Boyne doesn't change things too much, unlikely as that seems.


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## Smellytele (Oct 22, 2021)

wow own 3 of the 4 biggest ski areas in ME.


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## Jully (Oct 22, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> I certainly didn't see this coming either. I love Shawnee. Hope Boyne doesn't change things too much, unlikely as that seems.


Maybe I'm nuts, but I don't see Boyne changing a whole lot besides expanded and improved snowmaking. I don't see a fancy summit lift anytime soon (and would really want that money spent elsewhere).

There was talk of a moderate sized expansion on the west side years ago, but haven't kept up with the rumor mill there at all


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

Never thought boyne would buy this, makes perfect sense now that I see advantages  of boyne having this mtn, always thought vail would buy it,  I thought about alterra, but thought they would not want to irritate boyne with the purchase, thought powder might have an interest if they wanted to enter the maine market.   Where does this leave saddleback and mt Abram?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

Jully said:


> Maybe I'm nuts, but I don't see Boyne changing a whole lot besides expanded and improved snowmaking. I don't see a fancy summit lift anytime soon (and would really want that money spent elsewhere).
> 
> There was talk of a moderate sized expansion on the west side years ago, but haven't kept up with the rumor mill there at all



West expansion would be great.  There's like 1200 vertical of very solid pitch.  Could expand the terrain by like 30-40%.

Unlikely to ever happen now though.  People want more terrain, they can just drive an hour up the road to Sunday River


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## Newpylong (Oct 22, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> So you're saying that Saddleback isn't competing with Boyne for season pass business?
> 
> You serious Clark?
> 
> ...


Those would be your words, not mine.

I am strictly speaking Saddleback vs Shawnee, as Shawnee is not on the Boyne pass this year. Taking the mega pass out of the equation.

I expect Saddleback to join one (assume Ikon) in the near future.


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> West expansion would be great.  There's like 1200 vertical of very solid pitch.  Could expand the terrain by like 30-40%.
> 
> Unlikely to ever happen now though.  People want more terrain, they can just drive an hour up the road to Sunday River


That’s one of the reasons I thought vail would have an interest in the place


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## Cat in January (Oct 22, 2021)

Saddleback wants to be bought out.  Angling for Vail to be the buyer.  Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle


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## Edd (Oct 22, 2021)

Cat in January said:


> Saddleback wants to be bought out.  Angling for Vail to be the buyer.  Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle


Speculation?


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

Cat in January said:


> Saddleback wants to be bought out.  Angling for Vail to be the buyer.  Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle


How do you know, they are angling for vail?


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

Cat in January said:


> Saddleback wants to be bought out.  Angling for Vail to be the buyer.  Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle


I am under the impression that saddleback needs to owned for ten years so the owners have no capital gains on sale, but I could be wrong on that


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## Cat in January (Oct 22, 2021)

Yes speculation I hear on the part of condo owners up there.  Arctaris has been clear they don’t want to stay in the ski industry game for the long haul.  Thought they said less than ten years but don’t have a reference.   Types of improvements they are doing would fit with a vail resort and vail has the capital as has been reported in the press.


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## ThatGuy (Oct 22, 2021)

Cat in January said:


> Yes speculation I hear on the part of condo owners up there.  Arctaris has been clear they don’t want to stay in the ski industry game for the long haul.  Thought they said less than ten years but don’t have a reference.   Types of improvements they are doing would fit with a vail resort and vail has the capital as has been reported in the press.


Arctaris said its a 7-10 year plan then they cash out.

_“Tower concedes that profits will be a long time coming at Saddleback. “We don’t expect to realize the profit on our investment until we sell the mountain,” he said. “This is a seven-to-ten-year project.” Still, he’s hopeful. “When we got to Rangeley,” he said, “the prevailing winds were already blowing in the right direction. People really wanted the mountain to reopen.” _


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## Newpylong (Oct 22, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Those would be your words, not mine.
> 
> I am strictly speaking Saddleback vs Shawnee, as Shawnee is not on the Boyne pass this year. Taking the mega pass out of the equation.
> 
> I expect Saddleback to join one (assume Ikon) in the near future.





deadheadskier said:


> So you're saying that Saddleback isn't competing with Boyne for season pass business?
> 
> You serious Clark?
> 
> ...



72K to answer your question.


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## thebigo (Oct 22, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> West expansion would be great.  There's like 1200 vertical of very solid pitch.  Could expand the terrain by like 30-40%.
> 
> Unlikely to ever happen now though.  People want more terrain, they can just drive an hour up the road to Sunday River


That depends on whether there is real estate potential. If boyne has shown one thing, they will invest in real estate access and on mountain dining/event space.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> 72K to answer your question.



So basically the same as under prior ownership, but now having the added financial burden of a HSQ.  Best year under the Berry's I can find information for is 97k skier visits. 

Which gets back to my point that being competitive in the Maine market from Augusta south where the population is high is critical for long term viability.  It's a longer ride from Metro Boston to SB than it is Sugarloaf (only slightly I know), but it's a tough commitment for most weekend warriors, nevermind day trippers.  Southern Maine, coastal NH and Boston North in Mass is their market. 

As stated, I lived in Portland for a few years.  Everyone I knew fell in two camps.  They either had an ASC pass or Shawnee.  Now they get to have all three on the same pass. 

Maybe Boyne buying Shawnee won't have a major impact on skier visits and pass sales, but it's definitely not a good thing.  The opposite would have been a very good thing for Saddleback.  I.e. SB purchased Shawnee.  I'd buy that all day over a SL/SR pass.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2021)

thebigo said:


> That depends on whether there is real estate potential. If boyne has shown one thing, they will invest in real estate access and on mountain dining/event space.



From what Ive read, the talked about west face expansion was all about selling more condos.  They only have a limited amount currently.


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## Mainer (Oct 22, 2021)

I love and hate this purchase at the same time. Sunday River and Shawnee on the same pass are really nice. I might get the pass next year. Shawnee is 15 minutes away, Sunday River is under an hour. 
   I’ve had a few problems over the years with Shawnee. Season passes are expensive. Kids 5 and under had to pay to ride lift. If it snowed too much they closed the mountain. Last year the midweek opening time was 11, couldn’t get some runs in before work. Everything should be more consistent now.
    But I hate that the feel of the place will completely change. It had a good vibe. Everyone is super friendly, it’s not usually crowded. Bar is nice. It definitely going to feel more corporate there, have that chain restaurant feel. We are losing our independent hills.


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## Newpylong (Oct 22, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> So basically the same as under prior ownership, but now having the added financial burden of a HSQ.  Best year under the Berry's I can find information for is 97k skier visits.
> 
> Which gets back to my point that being competitive in the Maine market from Augusta south where the population is high is critical for long term viability.  It's a longer ride from Metro Boston to SB than it is Sugarloaf (only slightly I know), but it's a tough commitment for most weekend warriors, nevermind day trippers.  Southern Maine, coastal NH and Boston North in Mass is their market.
> 
> ...



Time will tell.


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## machski (Oct 22, 2021)

I read Boyne's release https://www.boyneresorts.com/press-releases/20211022-shawnee-peak-purchase and they plan to keep Shawnee only passes and products, though I am sure it joins the NEP next season.  Boyne may even toss a few Shawnee Days as a preview to NEP holders this year at a later date.
I wonder if this marks the end of Night/Twilight skiing at SR.  They have been trimming the hours back and being just Dreammaker and Escapade plus SOuth Ridge, it isn't really much of a product.  Once Shawnee is on the NEP, I for one would prefer the drive over to SHawnee if I intend to night ski as they have a real product.  Many from MA may swing by Friday night on the way up too.
Finally, the current Summit Triple at Shawnee is Loon's old North Peak Triple.  Given the North Peak Express is on the 2030 Flightplan to be replaced, it would be quite interesting if this HSQ made its way to Shawnee to replace the summit triple.  Pretty sure that would be a first but can totally now see this happening.


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

machski said:


> I read Boyne's release https://www.boyneresorts.com/press-releases/20211022-shawnee-peak-purchase and they plan to keep Shawnee only passes and products, though I am sure it joins the NEP next season.  Boyne may even toss a few Shawnee Days as a preview to NEP holders this year at a later date.
> I wonder if this marks the end of Night/Twilight skiing at SR.  They have been trimming the hours back and being just Dreammaker and Escapade plus SOuth Ridge, it isn't really much of a product.  Once Shawnee is on the NEP, I for one would prefer the drive over to SHawnee if I intend to night ski as they have a real product.  Many from MA may swing by Friday night on the way up too.
> Finally, the current Summit Triple at Shawnee is Loon's old North Peak Triple.  Given the North Peak Express is on the 2030 Flightplan to be replaced, it would be quite interesting if this HSQ made its way to Shawnee to replace the summit triple.  Pretty sure that would be a first but can totally now see this happening.


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## Cobbold (Oct 22, 2021)

Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?


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## thebigo (Oct 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?



The short answer is no. Operational incompetence on the part of vail is more impactful. Now, if i logged onto AZ tomorrow and saw that Alterra took over gunstock, epic would be cooked in greater Boston.

The long answer is that this is a significant move. 1.5+ million people live in southeast nh and Southern Maine. We like to ski and have money; 'we' being one of the 1.5 million.  The corner of Maine near Shawnee is very attractive. Property is reasonably priced, it is relatively accessible, there are gorgeous lakes and rivers, North conway is a reasonabe drive for dinner and other things wives and kids like to do.

I found myself looking at property in the Shawnee region yesterday after I read this news. Lake front new construction can be had for $600k, less than half price the comparable property in NH.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 23, 2021)

Yes, nevermind the low property taxes.  I've long considered Bridgton as a potential retirement spot.   Great area.


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## machski (Oct 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?


Hard to tell as we don't yet know how Boyne, and separately Alterra, may integrate Shawnee into their products.  You would have to think that Shawnee joins the NEP for 22-23, but if it joins Ikon is up in the air.  Boyne may want it to but Alterra could oppose it or vice versa.  Boyne has made a big point that stand alone season passes will continue to be offered for Shawnee, which makes me think it may only be included in Gold tiers and up on the NEP.  Have to wait and see, but seems Boyne is committed to Shawnee's local market.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 23, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> *I guess that takes Boyne out of the race for Jay Peak.*



Why?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 23, 2021)

machski said:


> Hard to tell as we don't yet know how Boyne, and separately Alterra, may integrate Shawnee into their products.  You would have to think that Shawnee joins the NEP for 22-23, but if it joins Ikon is up in the air.  Boyne may want it to but Alterra could oppose it or vice versa.  Boyne has made a big point that stand alone season passes will continue to be offered for Shawnee, which makes me think it may only be included in Gold tiers and up on the NEP.  Have to wait and see, but seems Boyne is committed to Shawnee's local market.



It will be interesting to see what Boyne means by being committed to the local market.   Shawnee was far from cheap as an independent ski area except for certain midweek and night skiing specials.   Not sure what their early bird price was, but a full adult season pass is $825 right now.  Compare that to similar sized Ragged that is $699 and was as low as $349 early bird.


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## machski (Oct 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> It will be interesting to see what Boyne means by being committed to the local market.   Shawnee was far from cheap as an independent ski area except for certain midweek and night skiing specials.   Not sure what their early bird price was, but a full adult season pass is $825 right now.  Compare that to similar sized Ragged that is $699 and was as low as $349 early bird.


True, but a full on NEP early season at the Platinum Level is close to $1400.  Gold early is around $1150.  Closest to Shawnee's full price in NEP is the restricted Silver at around the same pricing.  SO I would assume they will keep a full Shawnee only product at a discounted price off a Gold NEP.  They perhaps may even trim a bit off the full Shawnee price, likely dependant on how integrated they make it with the other pass mixes (NEP and IKON).  IKON front again is multi dependant on Boyne AND Alterra being in agreement on direction there, should that be in consideration.  I could see Alterra's interest in Shawnee just to add the Portland night ski market into that pass draw.


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## MG Skier (Oct 28, 2021)

I have hiked Shawnee numerous times and sworn I would get there. I would have last year but ... happened. So hopefully this year! Let is snow already!


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## WWF-VT (Oct 29, 2021)

More info in this article in Storm Skiing Journal









						Boyne Resorts Buys Shawnee Peak, Maine, Boosting New England Footprint
					

North America’s third-largest ski company now owns 10 resorts across the continent




					www.stormskiing.com


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 29, 2021)

I've got a few of those $15 night skiing coupons Shawnee used to distribute around North Conway.  No expiration date on them. Wonder if they're still useable????


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## ss20 (Oct 30, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> I've got a few of those $15 night skiing coupons Shawnee used to distribute around North Conway.  No expiration date on them. Wonder if they're still useable????



I've got free group lesson vouchers at Butternut...circa probably 07 or 08.  If I turned them in now they'd probably laugh.


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## Old Glory (Feb 23, 2022)

Longtime skier in the area.  I used to buy passes at Shawnee...until they were more expensive than Sunday River Passes.  That was years ago but I could never understand the pricing strategy.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2022)

Was there an official name change announcement by Boyne?

Noticed this morning their Facebook page now lists the business as Pleasant Mountain Maine


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## thetrailboss (Sep 14, 2022)

It appears so......


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## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2022)

Pleasant Mountain Ski Area, Bridgton Maine | Home
					

Pleasant Mountain offers a uniquely maine skiing and riding exerience.  We invite you to enjoy our uncrowded trails that offer stunning views of the White Mountains of New Hampshire and Lakes Region of Western Maine. Pleasant Mountain was formerly known as Shawnee Peak.




					www.pleasantmountain.com
				




Website too


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## urungus (Sep 14, 2022)

Boyne Resorts Restores ‘Pleasant Mountain’ Name at Shawnee Peak, Maine
					

How a Maine ski area spent 34 years named after a Pennsylvania ski area




					www.stormskiing.com


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## machski (Sep 14, 2022)

I had a feeling they were tipping this way.  Good on them.


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## Terry (Sep 15, 2022)

I rode by there Tuesday night and noticed all the Shawnee Peak signs were gone. I kind of figured that was what they were doing.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 15, 2022)

Terry said:


> I rode by there Tuesday night and noticed all the Shawnee Peak signs were gone. I kind of figured that was what they were doing.



You should be gifted one Terry.  When I think of Shawnee, I always think of you and your crew there


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## 2Planker (Sep 15, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Was there an official name change announcement by Boyne?
> 
> Noticed this morning their Facebook page now lists the business as Pleasant Mountain Maine


They did a survey.
Overwhelmng majority choice to go back to Pleasant Mt


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## Domeskier (Sep 15, 2022)

urungus said:


> Boyne Resorts Restores ‘Pleasant Mountain’ Name at Shawnee Peak, Maine
> 
> 
> How a Maine ski area spent 34 years named after a Pennsylvania ski area
> ...


Interesting.  Was wondering why they went with such a bland name.  And had no idea there was any connection to the PA ski place.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 15, 2022)

2Planker said:


> They did a survey.
> Overwhelmng majority choice to go back to Pleasant Mt



I can stop referring to it as that place that used to be Pleasant Mtn


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## kickstand (Sep 15, 2022)

I had/had a pin advertising the alpine slides at Pleasant Mountain.  Probably from the early 80s.  If I still have it I'll post a pic.


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## JimG. (Sep 15, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> Interesting.  Was wondering why they went with such a bland name.  And had no idea there was any connection to the PA ski place.


Agreed, what a boring name.

Kind of like calling it "OK Peak".


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## 2Planker (Sep 15, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Agreed, what a boring name.
> 
> Kind of like calling it "OK Peak".


Maine is all about NOSTALGIA, 
Overwhelming choice was to go back to the name from the 70's--mid 90's


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## JimG. (Sep 15, 2022)

Looks like a cool little place.

I get Shawnee is no longer polite and going back to a previous name makes sense.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 16, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Looks like a cool little place.
> 
> I get Shawnee is no longer polite and going back to a previous name makes sense.



It's a very cool mid sized mountain.  Skis much bigger than it's stats as their vertical is really consistent with minimal run out.  Good snowmaking and lots of nice character trails too.  Just doesn't get a ton of snow due to location and elevation. 

I think Boyne will do a great job there.  Selfishly I wish they stayed independent and found their way onto the Indy Pass.  Used to be able to find day ticket deals there occasionally, but probably not anymore.


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## machski (Sep 18, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> It's a very cool mid sized mountain.  Skis much bigger than it's stats as their vertical is really consistent with minimal run out.  Good snowmaking and lots of nice character trails too.  Just doesn't get a ton of snow due to location and elevation.
> 
> I think Boyne will do a great job there.  Selfishly I wish they stayed independent and found their way onto the Indy Pass.  Used to be able to find day ticket deals there occasionally, but probably not anymore.


I think deals will still be available for Pleasant.  Boyne is keeping them off the Ikon and NE passes, so any revenue draw from those mass products is non existent (OK, NEP golds and up get 3 free days then 50% off and Silver NEPs get 50% off).  They will have to keep some other type of revenue boost in place, that should mean lift ticket deals


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## Edd (Sep 18, 2022)

What is Boyne’s thinking with Shawnee? If they’re not putting it on the main pass, why buy the mountain? I’m unable to think of a similar situation with multi-mountain companies.


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## bigbob (Sep 19, 2022)

Edd said:


> What is Boyne’s thinking with Shawnee? If they’re not putting it on the main pass, why buy the mountain? I’m unable to think of a similar situation with multi-mountain companies.


It must make money the way it is currently run. The pass costs more money that the New England Pass. Give them a year or two to of experience with this area, the pass situation may be adjusted.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 19, 2022)

I think they've always been able to charge a premium due to location and captive audience.  Close enough to Portland for afterwork turns.  Only good sized place like it for that near Portland really.


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## machski (Sep 19, 2022)

Edd said:


> What is Boyne’s thinking with Shawnee? If they’re not putting it on the main pass, why buy the mountain? I’m unable to think of a similar situation with multi-mountain companies.


Probably looking for their first foray into a feeder area?  I guess you might refer to Boyne or Highlands themselves as feeders to Big Sky but I don't given the money and infrastructure both MI resorts have and are getting (sounds like Highlands may be getting an OctoChair too next year).

I think Boyne knew what Pleasant has when they bought it and respected the infrastructure, not necessarily the terrain, could not handle a huge jump in pass traffic.  I believe they will advance the facilities over the next several seasons and slowly integrate Pleasant onto their pass structure.  First unlimited will likely be just for NEP Platinum level and then slowly integrate more as the improve and expand facilities, etc.  But I do believe they bought it to be more of a standalone feeder.


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## 2Planker (Sep 19, 2022)

Don't knock it.

It's a pretty good Mt  w/ a HUGE night skiing crowd.
Way more nighttime activity there than SR which is another 45-60mins from Portland.
 WAY more


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## deadheadskier (Sep 19, 2022)

machski said:


> Probably looking for their first foray into a feeder area?  I guess you might refer to Boyne or Highlands themselves as feeders to Big Sky but I don't given the money and infrastructure both MI resorts have and are getting (sounds like Highlands may be getting an OctoChair too next year).
> 
> I think Boyne knew what Pleasant has when they bought it and respected the infrastructure, not necessarily the terrain, could not handle a huge jump in pass traffic.  I believe they will advance the facilities over the next several seasons and slowly integrate Pleasant onto their pass structure.  First unlimited will likely be just for NEP Platinum level and then slowly integrate more as the improve and expand facilities, etc.  But I do believe they bought it to be more of a standalone feeder.



I think first and foremost they need to increase parking.  I believe that's their greatest limiting factor.   

As for expanded terrain and uphill capacity, the old older discussed for several years adding a chair and some trails down the west side.  Maybe that happens eventually.


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## machski (Sep 19, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I think first and foremost they need to increase parking.  I believe that's their greatest limiting factor.
> 
> As for expanded terrain and uphill capacity, the old older discussed for several years adding a chair and some trails down the west side.  Maybe that happens eventually.


Agree, parking and from what I have been told, amount of restrooms and lodge space are the big limiters currently.  Uphill capacity is the next issue, only 2 triples to the top at present doesn't offer a lot of capacity.  But trails off of the same seem adequate to accomodate added traffic.  I know Boyne got access to the terrain that is considered in the West side expansion with this purchase, but I would imagine that is quite a ways down the road if it happens.

As a side note, Peter from LiftBlog posted in the Sugarloaf Today forum that he was asked to take down the Jordan quad to Pleasant as that project is not yet confirmed.  So that may in fact still happen, but not guarenteed.


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## Cat in January (Sep 19, 2022)

I wouldn’t be surprised if they started opening up glades over on the west side sooner than later.  At least that’s the rumbling I am hearing.  Side country is big right now.  Eventually a lift and houses


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## deadheadskier (Sep 20, 2022)

Cat in January said:


> I wouldn’t be surprised if they started opening up glades over on the west side sooner than later.  At least that’s the rumbling I am hearing.  Side country is big right now.  Eventually a lift and houses



They could fairly easily as some of it has already become skiable over the years.  There are likely many locals that would like to see that area left alone from future development for that reason.


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## Cat in January (Sep 20, 2022)

Yeah gba did some work over there


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## 2Planker (Sep 20, 2022)

machski said:


> As a side note, Peter from LiftBlog posted in the Sugarloaf Today forum that he was asked to take down the Jordan quad to Pleasant as that project is not yet confirmed.  So that may in fact still happen, but not guarenteed.


Hmmm... 
I'm seeing Ralph L.  tonite, so I'll ask what's up.


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## Terry (Nov 2, 2022)

I have been seeing lift parts going south on rt 5 all day so rode over to pleasant Mt tonight and there is a lot of towers, shive trains and stuff where they stored the triple parts a few years ago. Short turn around on truck trips so must be coming from Sr.


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## Tin Woodsman (Nov 3, 2022)

Terry said:


> I have been seeing lift parts going south on rt 5 all day so rode over to pleasant Mt tonight and there is a lot of towers, shive trains and stuff where they stored the triple parts a few years ago. Short turn around on truck trips so must be coming from Sr.


Sounds like the rumors of SR changing their approach with Jordan Express is true after all.  Trying to refurb that into the new Barker was always a stupid idea (need for new machine/more capacity should have been obvious from the start), so I'm glad to see they are finding a higher/better use for this machine in the Boyne portfolio.


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## 2Planker (Nov 3, 2022)

Tin Woodsman said:


> Sounds like the rumors of SR changing their approach with Jordan Express is true after all.  Trying to refurb that into the new Barker was always a stupid idea (need for new machine/more capacity should have been obvious from the start), so I'm glad to see they are finding a higher/better use for this machine in the Boyne portfolio.


The move Jordan to Barker plan was scrapped in May/June when they realized that the Jordan quad would better serve the west side of Shawnee, now aka Pleasant Mt


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## Tin Woodsman (Nov 3, 2022)

2Planker said:


> The move Jordan to Barker plan was scrapped in May/June when they realized that the Jordan quad would better serve the west side of Shawnee, now aka Pleasant Mt



Right - it was a dumb plan even before the Pleasant Mt acquisition.  I will never understand why an 8 pack is necessary to facilitate access to terrain on the edge of the resort, most of which may never get developed, while the plan to replace what is arguably the most central/important lift in the system was a re-furbed quad.  That's just dumb irrespective of the Pleasant Mt situation.


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## Mainer (Nov 3, 2022)

Does anybody know what time they open in the morning this year?  Last year was 10, the year before that was 11. The late opening makes it hard to get some turns in before work. Hoping for boyne to make it 9


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## bigbob (Nov 3, 2022)

Tin Woodsman said:


> Right - it was a dumb plan even before the Pleasant Mt acquisition.  I will never understand why an 8 pack is necessary to facilitate access to terrain on the edge of the resort, most of which may never get developed, while the plan to replace what is arguably the most central/important lift in the system was a re-furbed quad.  That's just dumb irrespective of the Pleasant Mt situation.


The weight of the 8 pack may be neccesary to achieve the primary goal of the chair running during windy days.


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## Newpylong (Nov 3, 2022)

Tin Woodsman said:


> Right - it was a dumb plan even before the Pleasant Mt acquisition.  I will never understand why an 8 pack is necessary to facilitate access to terrain on the edge of the resort, most of which may never get developed, while the plan to replace what is arguably the most central/important lift in the system was a re-furbed quad.  That's just dumb irrespective of the Pleasant Mt situation.



Weight, weight, and nothing but weight.

Jordan will also grow in acreage long term.


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## ss20 (Nov 3, 2022)

Also an 8 on Barker with it's dozens of intersections would be HORRIBLE.  Jordan is a fantastic pod.  Yes it'll pack the trails over there a bit tighter but I'd take that over more people coming around blind corners.


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## graysquirrel73 (Nov 4, 2022)

Mainer said:


> Does anybody know what time they open in the morning this year?  Last year was 10, the year before that was 11. The late opening makes it hard to get some turns in before work. Hoping for boyne to make it 9


9:30 till 8 it says on their website








						Hours of Operation | Pleasant Mountain, Bridgton Maine
					

Keep up to date with our hours of operation.




					www.pleasantmountain.com


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## Tin Woodsman (Nov 6, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Weight, weight, and nothing but weight.
> 
> Jordan will also grow in acreage long term.



Right - all that is likely true.  But to me that doesn't justify the sequencing here.  It's certainly building in anticipation of a lot of extra capacity in the future, but that could be 5-10 years away easy.  And is the weight of an 8 truly a difference maker vs. a 6?  When I consider the existing needs closer into the core of the resort, I don't understand the decision making.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2022)

Tin Woodsman said:


> Right - all that is likely true.  But to me that doesn't justify the sequencing here.  It's certainly building in anticipation of a lot of extra capacity in the future, but that could be 5-10 years away easy.  And is the weight of an 8 truly a difference maker vs. a 6?  When I consider the existing needs closer into the core of the resort, I don't understand the decision making.


I’ve seen it reported in a couple places that someone from Boyne Central visited and made the suggestion. When he saw that Jordan was on wind hold he asked why it wasn’t an 8-person.

Honestly I’d rather have seen Barker replaced first. I get that they “think” they are expanding but who knows if that will happen.

I also think that the ‘loaf could have used some new lifts before they replaced Jordan. SuperQuad is almost 30 years old.


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## machski (Nov 6, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> I’ve seen it reported in a couple places that someone from Boyne Central visited and made the suggestion. When he saw that Jordan was on wind hold he asked why it wasn’t an 8-person.
> 
> Honestly I’d rather have seen Barker replaced first. I get that they “think” they are expanding but who knows if that will happen.
> 
> I also think that the ‘loaf could have used some new lifts before they replaced Jordan. SuperQuad is almost 30 years old.


Yes, one of the Boyne high ups saw one of the weekends when Jordan was down for the whole time due to winds.  They told DB to fix it now.  Also plays to lack of draw of the Jordan Grand (quarter share resales are dirt cheap and the old Grand Summit has more demand than Jordan.  Some of this a good lift won't fix with how far out Jordan sits).  So yes, that pushed Jordan ahead of Barker (second Jordan 8 video DB admitted as much).  And yes, the 8 was determined to be the best option for wind resistance.


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## Smellytele (Nov 6, 2022)

While people say barkercan’t handle more traffic on the trails it is more about getting skiers out of that base area and across the mountain. While south ridge can get the beginners out with the chondola. Traffic gets bogged down at barker with people coming over from white cap from one direction and from north peak  from the other. The mountain is a transversing hell between pods. White cap has fucking 2 trails. Just need to get the fuck out of there. Most pods have no more than 4 ways down. Barker and oz (although oz is fucked with out natural snow) are the only ones that have more.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 6, 2022)

Do people really think terrain beyond Jordan gets developed?  I don't see the need nor do I think it would draw enough additional crowds to support it with much profit.   Seems to me after Barker they should spend the next decade working on the other three areas in the East.  Then maybe look at expansion.  Sunday River is pretty massive as is. Tough to staff as well I'm sure


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## Newpylong (Nov 6, 2022)

I can tell you the water line they buried under Kansas this year to feed Oz/Jordan next season is sized to send twice as much water as is currently required...FWIW.


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## machski (Nov 6, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> While people say barkercan’t handle more traffic on the trails it is more about getting skiers out of that base area and across the mountain. While south ridge can get the beginners out with the chondola. Traffic gets bogged down at barker with people coming over from white cap from one direction and from north peak  from the other. The mountain is a transversing hell between pods. White cap has fucking 2 trails. Just need to get the fuck out of there. Most pods have no more than 4 ways down. Barker and oz (although oz is fucked with out natural snow) are the only ones that have more.


I'm betting ng Barker is upgraded to a D-Line 6 bubble.  Given Jordan 9 is only a 20% capacity boost over the Quad it is replacing, the 6 shouldn't be more than 35% or so at Barker.  I say that because the current Barker spins slower than the racing T-Bar so just the speed gain will increase the uphill movement.  That said, with 4 primary routes down and 2 secondary (I would expect Top Gun to get better snowmaking equipment and Agony to actually get snowmaking again given the relative ease of taking chairs off the line overnight on D machines, giving them 6 solid routes down) Barker has plenty of trail capacity for a 6.

As to the comment on Oz, the glades and Ruby will not change and still need natural, but I expect both Eureka and Princess to see snowmaking, in Eureka's case first time in almost a decade and LP, picking up again after last year's pause.  Both will be needed with the 8 at Jordan IMHO and they will have the water capacity to do both now with the booster at the top of NP.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 6, 2022)

I don't think it's a bad idea to prepare for the future.  I just question how much more they can grow their skier visits to support the growth.  

Where as I think improvements at Pleasant and Sugarloaf might grow their market share because what's being discussed address product deficiencies that many wish to see modernized.

We will see.  Happy to see all the Maine improvements all over.  Not just Boyne and SB, but Black and Big Rock too.  Who knows, maybe the Big Squaw project happens someday.


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## Newpylong (Nov 6, 2022)

machski said:


> I'm betting ng Barker is upgraded to a D-Line 6 bubble.  Given Jordan 9 is only a 20% capacity boost over the Quad it is replacing, the 6 shouldn't be more than 35% or so at Barker.  I say that because the current Barker spins slower than the racing T-Bar so just the speed gain will increase the uphill movement.  That said, with 4 primary routes down and 2 secondary (I would expect Top Gun to get better snowmaking equipment and Agony to actually get snowmaking again given the relative ease of taking chairs off the line overnight on D machines, giving them 6 solid routes down) Barker has plenty of trail capacity for a 6.
> 
> As to the comment on Oz, the glades and Ruby will not change and still need natural, but I expect both Eureka and Princess to see snowmaking, in Eureka's case first time in almost a decade and LP, picking up again after last year's pause.  Both will be needed with the 8 at Jordan IMHO and they will have the water capacity to do both now with the booster at the top of NP.



Those Oz trails might need to wait another year unless the winter is kind. Jordan and Oz are still fed down Quantum, up and over Aurora base for one more year. They buried the pipe while doing the Kansas rework this year but never planned on cutting it in. There are only two pumps in the new booster station which will serve Spruce (big new feed on Downdraft). Next year they'll add the next set of 4 pumps and cut that new feed in to points West. They'll have to reconfigure everything as it all feeds from the bottom now.

Trail 1 on Merril has snowmaking completed as well.


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## machski (Nov 6, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Do people really think terrain beyond Jordan gets developed?  I don't see the need nor do I think it would draw enough additional crowds to support it with much profit.   Seems to me after Barker they should spend the next decade working on the other three areas in the East.  Then maybe look at expansion.  Sunday River is pretty massive as is. Tough to staff as well I'm sure


Yes, but I think this is years off (5-10 IMHO).  I also do not know to what extent it will be developed.  I would go easy if it follows on from anything I saw from Les' vision with the village by where the Jordan hotel is now, at least one additional lift will drop down from the top of Lola Ridge if you will, down and just above the golf course.  How many actual "trails" vs gladed areas are developed is anyone's guess.  I would venture if a new lift does go in beyond Jordan, that would include at least 3 snowmaking trails but I'm just guessing here.  I believe before they get anywhere near the Western Reserve, we will see additional upgrades on the current pods,perhaps a few new trails here and there as well and the 2nd phase of Merrill Hill with the backside lift installed.

Regardless of SR's continued evolution, the other 2 East resorts stand on their own.  Loon has two new(ish) lifts already, another already ordered for all new terrain next season and I'm certain the upgrades their are not stopping (Loon is their ROI leader on NE after all).  Sugarloaf will see continued improvement, the Kircher and the family love SL, even if it doesn't produce the ROI they might wish it did.  Which is why West Lift probably went to a refurbed Swift Current HSQ but if you have seen Loon's Seven Bros HSQ, you would be hard pressed to know that is the former KancQuad.


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## machski (Nov 6, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Those Oz trails might need to wait another year unless the winter is kind. Jordan and Oz are still fed down Quantum, up and over Aurora base for one more year. They buried the pipe while doing the Kansas rework this year but never planned on cutting it in. There are only two pumps in the new booster station which will serve Spruce (big new feed on Downdraft). Next year they'll add the next set of 4 pumps and cut that new feed in to points West. They'll have to reconfigure everything as it all feeds from the bottom now.
> 
> Trail 1 on Merril has snowmaking completed as well.


Yeah, that whole connection never made a ton of sense to me.  Why cross the system down low like they did under the Jordan Double??  Not sure what Les and crew saw with that setup, maybe lack of on hill boosters at the time made crossing lower seem more logical then.  Perhaps they also planned a second river feed way back then too.  I know the full push of water west isn't ready this year, but I do expect both runs in Oz to get some snow.  It had been a pain point for DB to not get to Eureka for as long as they haven't.  One for me too, that is one of the best spring runs in late March when it has seen machine made during the season.  Can be great too with natural alone, but that goes fast!


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## SteezyYeeter (Nov 6, 2022)

Mainer said:


> Does anybody know what time they open in the morning this year?  Last year was 10, the year before that was 11. The late opening makes it hard to get some turns in before work. Hoping for boyne to make it 9


11 o clock?! jeez. all resorts should be open by 8, upper mountain lifts by 9 at the latest.


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## Smellytele (Nov 7, 2022)

SteezyYeeter said:


> 11 o clock?! jeez. all resorts should be open by 8, upper mountain lifts by 9 at the latest.


Weekdays 9 weekends 8-8:30


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