# Do skiier's hate Snowboarders?



## JD (Dec 10, 2009)

Is there any real negative impact on a ski area because of snowboarders? 
Would you be happy if your home area banned Snowboarding?


The two people who have voiced up about being MRG share holders have both indicated that they see the Ban on Riders as a possitive.  This boggles my mind.  The serious riders I know are some of the most passionate and spiritual sliders.  I love watching them ride.  The asthetic of a good snowboarder is beautiful.  The only drawback is difiiculty in BC access, but if I still rode lifts, I would definitely do both and on powder days I would be riding, at least for the first few runs..
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Believing in steriotypes and using them to lable an entire group of people is the most egocentric approach to social interaction I can think of.
You?


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## neil (Dec 10, 2009)

It's all stereotypes.

Snowboarders hate snobby skiers who stand around chatting in tight jackets with their poles stuck out.

Skiers hate punk snowboarders with their baggy jackets sitting on the slopes while swearing and listening to "agressive" music.

It's almost as stupid as being a fanboy of a mountain.


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## JD (Dec 10, 2009)

My only negative interaction on the hill since I started skiing 10 years ago have been with teleskiers.  One dude hit me with his pole because he thought I was going too fast, one dude told me if I went to ski a certain area that he felt he had claim to..."we were gonna have problems."  His name was Justin Ryer actually, and the song on the TR I just posted is about him.  Assholes are assholes.  There is no way to generalize about people because of their cloths, gear, income, color, nationality, race or gender.


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## RootDKJ (Dec 10, 2009)

No.  I hate anyone who doesn't Know the Code and sits down for a chat in the middle of a trail, or disrespects that the downhill person has the right of way.  

I realize that most mountains wouldn't be able to run with out both skiers and snowboarders.


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## dmc (Dec 10, 2009)

It's just as unfair to stereotype all skiers as it is to stereotype all snowboarders..

I happen to be an awesome freerider who shares trail space with alpiners and tele..  From New York and Vermont to Jackson Hole and Kashmir..  We get along fine!!!

JD had it right when he said that maybe the ban supporters just don't have friends that ride..   But they will die someday...  And new people will take their place...


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## dmc (Dec 10, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> No.  I hate anyone who doesn't Know the Code and sits down for a chat in the middle of a trail, or disrespects that the downhill person has the right of way.
> 
> I realize that most mountains wouldn't be able to run with out both skiers and snowboarders.



I gotta tell you - much of the reason why snowboarders stop at the top of the hill in the trail to put bindings on is because of skiers stopping...

Snowboards are not easy to hump around with one foot in..   If theres a group of skiers stopped and blocking the benches...  A snowboarder will just stop where they lose momentum.   I'm going to film this and prove it this winter...   If everyone just flowed it would be better...


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## St. Bear (Dec 10, 2009)

JD said:


> Believing in steriotypes and using them to lable an entire group of people is the most egocentric approach to social interaction I can think of.
> You?



But this is half of the existence of the internet.  Stereotyping and porn.


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## WWF-VT (Dec 10, 2009)

I have two kids - one's a skier and the other is a snowboarder.  As far as I can tell they don't hate each other.


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## Marc (Dec 10, 2009)

I hate snowboarders.

And pretty much everyone else too.


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## ta&idaho (Dec 10, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> But this is half of the existence of the internet.  Stereotyping and porn.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqz3ZHe-pJw


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## billski (Dec 10, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> No.  I hate anyone who doesn't Know the Code and sits down for a chat in the middle of a trail, or disrespects that the downhill person has the right of way.



+1  
There is equal opportunity for jerks on skis as on boards.  I ski with boarders who are in the 60s, some of the most laid-back dudes I know.  

I suspect because boarding attracts a disproportionately large number of immature teens, there may be more jerk behavior in the boarding segment.  But even if this was true, it's no reason to write off the lot.  Now, maybe if we had age discrimination    :dunce:

I definitely got the impression that Whaleback is predominately a teen hangout.  Hint.


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## St. Bear (Dec 10, 2009)

ta&idaho said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqz3ZHe-pJw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo&feature=related


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## BigJay (Dec 10, 2009)

I ride with a skier and a telemarker... 3 guys who share the same passion about riding and sharing the experience on snow... doesn't matter how you slide on your board(s)...

But by the way, can we ban the twin-tipped-hereos with neon jackets and that turn only with their hips witht the tip of their skis barely touching the ground... Way too much of that kind for me...:argue:

Snowboarding was cool in the 90s because it allowed people to bring the sport to a higher level on two fronts at the same time:
- Incredible float in powder
- Being able to arc turns down a groomer

Thanks to that, skiing learned from it and evolved. Now skis are pretty much half-boards with 120mm waist, rockered cambers and tips raised at both ends...

The hardbooters paved the way to carving skis also... When Elan came out with there first parabolic skis, people were happy to lay down turns like the euro-carvers who were striking the trails at every turn.

But now, thanks to this evolution, skiing is cool again. Now, jibbers are mostly on skis again! Up north, we have mostly teles... alpine carvers are the less numbered on the slopes. Fat skis rule and boards are second.

I don't think there is much "hating" going on up here... Closed-minded people stay at MRG... I'm not arguing that the place isn't fun or special... but saying that the ban is a good thing shows signs of being narrow minded. (or jealousy!)

Now, who's in for some pow turns?


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## RootDKJ (Dec 10, 2009)

dmc said:


> I gotta tell you - much of the reason why snowboarders stop at the top of the hill in the trail to put bindings on is because of skiers stopping...
> 
> Snowboards are not easy to hump around with one foot in..   If theres a group of skiers stopped and blocking the benches...  A snowboarder will just stop where they lose momentum.   I'm going to film this and prove it this winter...   If everyone just flowed it would be better...


Oh agreed.  Clearing the landing is a good idea regardless.  You never know who's going to come barreling out of control towards you.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 10, 2009)

I've never had a problem with snowboarders as a group or for their clothes or anything like that. I don't notice them most of the time, honestly. To me they are part of the background. Just as much part of the background as other skiers, the trees, the sky, etc...

However, there have been times where individual snowboarders in the bumps have stoked my ire. But bump-line-ire-stokage is not reserved for snowboarders, plenty of skiers ruffle my feathers too. I feel like this (snowboarders in the bumps) has been discussed ad nauseum before.


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## neil (Dec 10, 2009)

I often hear the "they hang around on the trail" from both skiers and snowboarders. It truly is one of the most annoying things people can do in my opinion.

I remember last season at Killington there was this group of 5+ people who were standing across the junction where Skyelark turns to a black run or goes off to High Road. They were taking up so much of the trail there that I had to slow down to turn past them. They were still there as I lapped it straight after!


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2009)

Snowboarders in general are cool with me

Snowboarders who side slip there way through fresh pow on trails that are over their abilty levels suck!  :uzi: 

Packs of any type(boarders/park rats/etc) of adolescents/20 somethings who openly and loudly let "f-bombs" while in the liftlines with lots of little kids around REALLY suck!


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## BigJay (Dec 10, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Snowboarders who side slip there way through fresh pow on trails that are over their abilty levels suck!  :uzi:



Applies to skiers as well!


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## snafu (Dec 10, 2009)

BigJay said:


> I ride with a skier and a telemarker... 3 guys who share the same passion about riding and sharing the experience on snow... doesn't matter how you slide on your board(s)...
> 
> But by the way, can we ban the twin-tipped-hereos with neon jackets and that turn only with their hips witht the tip of their skis barely touching the ground... Way too much of that kind for me...:argue:
> 
> ...



Seems skiing is cool again for the groms so I think the baggy-pants punk crosses both skiing and riding. 

I don't mind sharing the slopes at all with skiiers, teles or what-have-you, I don't like bumps and I think the majority of riders don't like bumps either, so if you see me in a bump field I must have taken a wrong turn

In regard to MRG and the closed-mindedness that forbids snowboards, I have a problem with that. The problem is the negative propaganda excuses coming out of the mouths that benefit from the status quo there - the single chair is not for riders....snowboards scrape too much snow off...riders you just won't enjoy it here...etc. All complete BS. The real reason is that a couple of snowboarders pissed off the old lady there and she made a knee-jerk reaction to the situation. What these other excuses do is try to frame the argument that portrays snowboarding in a negative light, that riding is somehow worse on the mountain than skiing.


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## RootDKJ (Dec 10, 2009)

BigJay said:


> Applies to skiers as well!


Been there, done that:dunce:


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## speden (Dec 10, 2009)

Hate seems like too strong a word, but there does seem to be some natural friction between skiers and snowboarders.  So maybe annoyance would be a better word.

The two groups have some built in conflict areas, such as:

Snowboarders ride on one edge rather than two, so it tends to cut a deeper rut in the snow, which can make skiers more likely to catch an edge, or have a more bumpy ride than they otherwise would.

It seems very easy and natural for snowboarders to side slip down areas or slam on the brakes, and this can scape off a lot of snow, and make snow piles.  The sideways stance also seems to encourage snowboarders to sit down on trails for a rest or a chat.  When skiers stop on trails to rest they usually stay standing up, making them easier to see.

Snowboarders tend to be teenagers, and teenagers tend to be selfish and brash, and often travel around in packs.  That sometimes translates into cutting people off on trails and liftlines.  They seem more likely to bomb down runs, and to mouth off to people that get in their way.  Anecdotally, it seems like more crashes are caused by snowboarders than by skiers.

On average, more of the beginners are on skis, while snowboarders may have started on skis and then progressed to snowboarding.  So in general the snowboarders may be more experienced and skilled, and have less patience with the mistakes of beginners.  So they might come off as having an attitude that rubs the gapers the wrong way.


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## St. Bear (Dec 10, 2009)

snafu said:


> In regard to MRG and the closed-mindedness that forbids snowboards, I have a problem with that. The problem is the negative propaganda excuses coming out of the mouths that benefit from the status quo there - the single chair is not for riders....snowboards scrape too much snow off...riders you just won't enjoy it here...etc. All complete BS. The real reason is that a couple of snowboarders pissed off the old lady there and she made a knee-jerk reaction to the situation. What these other excuses do is try to frame the argument that portrays snowboarding in a negative light, that riding is somehow worse on the mountain than skiing.



Plus, they'd have to print all new bumper stickers.


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## Bumpsis (Dec 10, 2009)

billski said:


> +1
> There is equal opportunity for jerks on skis as on boards.  I ski with boarders who are in the 60s, some of the most laid-back dudes I know.
> 
> I suspect because boarding attracts a disproportionately large number of immature teens, there may be more jerk behavior in the boarding segment.  But even if this was true, it's no reason to write off the lot.  Now, maybe if we had age discrimination    :dunce:
> ...


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## redalienx11 (Dec 10, 2009)

im a skier but my favorite snowsports icon is jeremy jones the big mountain snowboarder. on the local hill i just find it hard to appreciate anyone...skier or boarder going way out of their way to draw attention to themselves


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## polski (Dec 10, 2009)

JD said:


> Is there any real negative impact on a ski area because of snowboarders?
> Would you be happy if your home area banned Snowboarding?
> 
> The two people who have voiced up about being MRG share holders have both indicated that they see the Ban on Riders as a possitive.


In case I didn't make this clear in the other thread, I think the ban is the right thing _in the unique circumstances at MRG_; I would not support banning snowboarders from the other places I ski, including Magic, which has a lot of the MRG vibe going for it.

In fact in the right circumstances I probably wouldn't object to a snowboard-only place. The old Timberside (backside of Magic) seems to be sort of shaping up as one, though it's private and doesn't yet have a t-bar so it's a bit of a different story at this point. 

I think we all can get along. Just not at MRG :razz:


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## jaywbigred (Dec 10, 2009)

speden said:


> Snowboarders ride on one edge rather than two, so it tends to cut a deeper rut in the snow, which can make skiers more likely to catch an edge, or have a more bumpy ride than they otherwise would.


You think skiers are catching edges in the ruts made by snowboarders?? Really??? I have to disagree with that. Don't notice it at all.



speden said:


> Snowboarders tend to be teenagers, and teenagers tend to be selfish and brash, and often travel around in packs.  That sometimes translates into cutting people off on trails and liftlines.  They seem more likely to bomb down runs, and to mouth off to people that get in their way.  Anecdotally, it seems like more crashes are caused by snowboarders than by skiers.



Maybe if it were 1996 this would be true, but not today. Gotta disagree here too. I think the teen crowd is pretty evenly divided now. If anything, there may be more skiers. And there are plenty of older dudes who rip on boards. Some of them are on this forum (judging from videos I've seen).



speden said:


> On average, more of the beginners are on skis, while snowboarders may have started on skis and then progressed to snowboarding.  So in general the snowboarders may be more experienced and skilled, and have less patience with the mistakes of beginners.  So they might come off as having an attitude that rubs the gapers the wrong way.



This is a strange argument. More beginners are on skis? I think there are plenty of snowboarders who never skied. I do think that snowboarding has a steeper learning curve (i.e. you can become competent at it more quickly), but I'm not sure this relates to any perceived attitude problems.

Honestly I'm shocked at some of the sentiment here. To me, snowboarders are so ingrained in the culture now, I don't notice them at all. It's not 1995 anymore!


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## abc (Dec 10, 2009)

I don't hate boarders. One of my best snow buddy is a boarder. 

But if I had the choice between a skier only mountain vs a mixed used mountain, I'd prefer a skier mountain. The reason had been enumerated by other posters. There're some inherent conflicts between the two type of equipment. It's not always the boarders but the board itself does make the difference.

Granted, the fact more boarders are rude teenagers doesn't help in swinging the pendulem back to the balance point. 

Hyperthetically speaking, I wouldn't mind a few mountains banning skiers while a few banning boarders so we can each have our peace occasionally. Though most of the time I'd be going to a mixed used mountain to hang out with my boarding friend.


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## billski (Dec 10, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> To me, snowboarders are so ingrained in the culture now, I don't notice them at all. It's not 1995 anymore!



Agree.  Which just goes to show that first impressions are hard to break, whether it be on a job interview or on the slope.

I suspect newbies who has been on the slopes less than 10 years would agree with you too.

It's the person, not the equipment...


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## thorski (Dec 10, 2009)

I have seen packs of snowboarders going down the mountain at Killington and they will spray skiers who have fallen with Malicious Intent.


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## BigJay (Dec 10, 2009)

abc said:


> Hyperthetically speaking, I wouldn't mind a few mountains banning skiers while a few banning boarders so we can each have our peace occasionally. Though most of the time I'd be going to a mixed used mountain to hang out with my boarding friend.



I couldn't even ride with my girlfriend on pow days because she's ripping it out on two planks?

And where would i go with my 2 best buddies? Places that accept all 3 forms of slidders?


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## mister moose (Dec 10, 2009)

Yes, I have boarder friends too.  One guy I used to take runs with was very laid back, and skilled on his board.  He'd go anywhere, and always be right behind me, or right in front waiting.  He was never in anyone's way.  I have friends now that are bi-modal... they ski and board.  Surprisingly enough their personality doesn't change when transitioning from board to skiis and back again. <end sarcasm>

Last weekend on the crowded zoo that was Killington, frequently there would be a group of people on the hairpin turn on Great Northern where you go straight to return to the Glades triple or take the 180 to head towards Snowdon.  It was always a mix of skiers and boarders.  Go figure.  None of these dolts seemed to have a clue that they were all targets below a big steep patch of ice if anyone fell, and they were obstructing the better non ice path.  Later on there were 2 ambassadors there, chatting away also.  Doing nothing about the targets.  I should have taken a picture so we could see that sliders of all types do stupid stuff, even those with mountain jackets on.

That said, it is much easier to do a heelside slide down a trail for a boarder than a skier, and as such it happens much more often.  On a powder day this behavior makes my blood boil.  It should make a good powder boarder's blood boil too.

Another thing boarders can do that (most) skiers can't is go in either direction.  I was passing a boarder on the same overcrowded Killington day who was stopped in the middle of the trail, knees into the hill.  Motionless.  I pick a side, and wouldn't you know as soon as I'm committed, he gets up without looking and slides towards the side I picked.  Near miss time.  This is basic, and skiers start off without looking up hill too, but at least you know which way they will go if they do.

On some bump trails I've noticed a lane free of bumps that low skill skiers and riders use to avoid the bumps.  I'm not talking about the half groomed type trail that is seen on a few trails.  I mean an 8 foot wide strip on one side and the rest is bumped up.  I figure the heel-side sliding keeps the bumps from forming, and once the lane is apparent, all the low skill sliders go there.  This is actually a positive thing, as it keeps them off the bumps.  Why they go on that trail just to scrape down totally eludes me, but this lane seems to be self sustaining, and is frequently used.

Different mountains seem to have different cultures as well.  A bunch of us skied Okemo last year, and pretty much stuck to the farmed bump runs.  We virtually never saw people on those runs that were snowplowing/sideslipping/scraping.  Riding up the lift with a few people, they frequently commented on "staying off the bumps" because they didn't like them.  Killington on the other hand seems to have a more macho culture.  I'm here to ski the Beast, and I'm going to get my belt notched on every trail!  How often have you heard "I can get down anything"?  I mean an ice ax and crampons can get down anything, but it won't leave very good tracks.  On crowded hills it would go a long way if everyone asked themselves if they were doing the considerate thing, the situational awareness thing.    

I think stereotypes evolve from legitimate patterns sometimes.  People are more wary of petting a German Shepard than a Labrador.  Are all German Shepards aggressive, or trained as attack dogs?  No, but some are, and it has created a stereotype that people are aware of.  Are all Labradors docile slobbery furballs?  No, I got cornered by 3 adult snarling barking males once.  But most are docile, and they have that reputation.

So at the end of the day I know I have been irritated or treated poorly by people of all types, from all states, and on all types of equipment.  I don't let any of them ruin my day though.


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## Glenn (Dec 10, 2009)

I skied and boarded for a few seasons. My cliff notes: Each group has their fair share of toolboxes. 

I think boarders get a bad rap because it's still mostly a younger crowd. We'll have to see how that changes once the demographics age.


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## 4aprice (Dec 10, 2009)

Boarders don't bother me generally but there are two or three things that SOME boarders do that irk me.  1. Like Jaybigred said is the chaos that is boarding in the moguls.  2. The sitting in the middle of the trail, however, that is something that I saw more of as boarding was first becoming popular and I feel most boarders have gotton much better about that.  3. At my home mountain there are trails which are cut across the mountain and some of the boarders tend to want to use the higher side of the trails as bonking areas.  Problem there is they have a blind spot and tend to come swooping down on you because they can't see you.   My wife got hit pretty hard one day by a kid doing that.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Smellytele (Dec 10, 2009)

I hate to say this but at a mountain I go to regularly I am glad there are snowboarders becasue if there weren't then maybe the punks would still my skis instead of all the snowboards that get stolen. Actually they wouldn't steal my tele's but could steal my family's skis. 90% of the equipment stolen is snowboards.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 10, 2009)

billski said:


> +1
> There is equal opportunity for jerks on skis as on boards.  I ski with boarders who are in the 60s, some of the most laid-back dudes I know.
> 
> I suspect because boarding attracts a disproportionately large number of immature teens, there may be more jerk behavior in the boarding segment.  But even if this was true, it's no reason to write off the lot.  Now, maybe if we had age discrimination    :dunce:
> ...



I would have agreed with this years ago, but nowadays there are a ton of punk little skiers as well, with there baggy baggy pants and shit stained underwear showing and ipods in there ears and potty mouths....becuase there down.  Then you go see them go jump in mommy and daddys suburban and ask the for 10 bucks so they can eat.  Basically it's come full circle, the image of the punk snowboarder is now moved to the young skier, much like while I was young in the 90's the movement of urban dress moved to suburbia.

Honestly I don't get how skiers/boarders can dress like that, but to each there own.

And yes Whaleback has alot of these type, but Thursday nights or a night following a good dump it is fun to head from the office with friends and ride and ski under the lights.


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## snoseek (Dec 10, 2009)

thorski said:


> I have seen packs of snowboarders going down the mountain at Killington and they will spray skiers who have fallen with Malicious Intent.



So what are you saying?


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## KingM (Dec 10, 2009)

I have no problems with snowboarders. They do tend to be younger and younger people on the mountain are often still learning proper trail/lift/line etiquette, but that's natural.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2009)

have friends that ride, friends that ski......don't really care one way or another what peoples choice in sliding down a hill is.  I don't agree with the ban at MRG, but do support the ownerships right to enact it.

What I will say is that back when I did both, part of the reason why I chose to ski was that I didn't really care for the 'image/attitude' that seemed to be mostly regulated to riders back in the late 80s, early 90s.  This would hold true for any sport though.  Just because you ski, ride, whatever, doesn't make you 'cool'.  Just be yourself.  There was another thread where this concept was discussed in that in young people, most people's 'expressing their individuality' is really not about being an individual at all, but about being accepted by a certain group of people.  Gang mentality


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## WJenness (Dec 10, 2009)

snoseek said:


> So what are you saying?



he's saying Killington sucks, duh...







-w


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## JD (Dec 10, 2009)

Sounds like at least some of us do pass judgement on people because they happen to be on Snowboards.  No wonder the entire world is a shit show...human nature to focus on differences, not simularities?  Or just our American condition created by mass media fear mongering and perpetuating contempt for people who are not like us?  Either way, I'm glad that my resort-free snow sliding exsistance is completely void of this demension, except for the 2-3 days a year I go skin the single chair side when it's on wind hold afer a nice Nor'easter.  On those days I miss my knuckle dragging bredrens.


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## ta&idaho (Dec 10, 2009)

JD said:


> Sounds like at least some of us do pass judgement on people because they happen to be on Snowboards.  No wonder the entire world is a shit show...human nature to focus on differences, not simularities?  Or just our American condition created by mass media fear mongering and perpetuating contempt for people who are not like us?  Either way, I'm glad that my resort-free snow sliding exsistance is completely void of this demension, except for the 2-3 days a year I go skin the single chair side when it's on wind hold afer a nice Nor'easter.  On those days I miss my knuckle dragging bredrens.



I have an Avenue Q clip for that one, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbQiSVeQwVQ&feature=related


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## KevinF (Dec 10, 2009)

speden said:


> Hate seems like too strong a word, but there does seem to be some natural friction between skiers and snowboarders.  So maybe annoyance would be a better word.
> 
> The two groups have some built in conflict areas, such as:
> 
> Snowboarders ride on one edge rather than two, so it tends to cut a deeper rut in the snow, which can make skiers more likely to catch an edge, or have a more bumpy ride than they otherwise would.



LOL.  Ruts created by boarders???  A carving snowboarder -- i.e., somebody who is really carving, creating a rut -- is incredibly beautiful to watch.  I hardly ever see anybody doing it, or even coming remotely close.  (That said, most skiers I see coming close to carving a turn are members of the local race team as well).

It's so rare to see a true-carving rut-creating snow-slider that it's a total non-issue.  And if you're somehow "catching an edge" on a "rut" caused by another skier / boarder...  well, it's time to retreat to the bunny hill.


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## JD (Dec 10, 2009)

ta&idaho said:


> I have an Avenue Q clip for that one, too:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbQiSVeQwVQ&feature=related



I can't even get a taxi! LMFAO.


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## Riverskier (Dec 10, 2009)

I have no problem with snowboarders at all, and certainly don't hate them. In fact, the person I have spent the most time on the mountain with is a boarder. Better on his board than I will ever be on my skis. Just plain fun to watch, whether it be in the bumps, trees, or anywhere else on the mountain.

However, fact: A snowboarder in over their head does more damage to a trail than a skier. Sliding sideways down a trail, they may as well be plowing the snow down the trail. As skier can certainly have the same effect, but in my experiences not nearly as bad. Of course, this isn't a problem with the sport, but with certain individuals.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 10, 2009)

Boarding, skiing, tele or what have you is like drinking beer.

I haven't met too many people I wouldn't drink a beer with so why the hell would I care how they slide down the mountain. :beer:


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## HD333 (Dec 10, 2009)

Being both a skier and a boarder I can say that people hate snowboarders, at least that is the vibe I get when I switch.  I am competent at both, realistically probably a better boarder now since the last 6 years I have mainly boarded, I follow the same ettique (sp) on both.  But I see a world of difference depending on what I am riding, Ask politly to skip ahead in line to form a quad  with wife and kids who are one group ahead with skis on I get "oh sure no problem"  Same thing on my board, stares of disgust like this knuckle dragger wants to cut ME so he can ride with his kids, are they even his kids or is he scamming me.

Bad example cause cutting the line sucks but I think you get my point, OK for skiers NOT OK for boarders.


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## mondeo (Dec 10, 2009)

I don't see what the bid deal with MRG banning snowboarders is. It's a niche mountain. One thing that's definitely true of snowboards is that it's harder to turn quickly, except for the rare few that have figured out how to turn with just their back leg in the bumps. Just the mechanics, feet far apart need to move more in order to turn. But no secret that it's harder to board in bumps than ski, so you get more boarders side slipping in the bumps. MRG is natural trails, which outside of powder day are bump runs. 

I've got no problem with boarders, I'm a bump skier so most of my friends are skiers, but a few boarders mixed in as well. But you can't deny that they have different impacts on mountains. For what it's worth non-bump skiers are less predictable in the bumps than snowboarders, so it's not all bad.

As far as scraping snow and creating wall bumps goes, teles are by far the worst. Plus they smell.


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## JD (Dec 10, 2009)

mondeo said:


> teles are by far the worst. Plus they smell.



.....like good reefer...


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## dmc (Dec 10, 2009)

JD said:


> .....like good reefer...



This may seem strange... But none of the guys i tele with smoke...   again.. another stereotype blasted....


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## abc (Dec 10, 2009)

HD333 said:


> Ask politly to skip ahead in line to form a quad  with wife and kids who are one group ahead with skis on I get "oh sure no problem"  Same thing on my board, stares of disgust like this knuckle dragger wants to cut ME so he can ride with his kids, are they even his kids or is he scamming me.
> 
> Bad example cause cutting the line sucks but I think you get my point, OK for skiers NOT OK for boarders.


Steroetypes don't come out of vacume. Boarders got bad reps because they create the rep in the first place! Boarders jump queues much more often than skiers!!! 

Was the bad rep created by EVERY boarder? NO. But enough of them that the steraotype are reenforced frequently enough to NOT go away. 

When 80-90% of boarders are polite and respectful, I bet the stereotype will die. (it has decreased somewhat already. But personally, I still see more rude boarders than skiers on average)


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 10, 2009)

Bad skiers in over their head tend to fall and make for good videos with equipment being lost as they fall. Bad snowboarders in over their head tend to slide on their ass down the trail with the wonderful scraping noise. Which is better, depends on if you are one of the people in the "bad" category or not.


----------



## JD (Dec 11, 2009)

millerm277 said:


> Bad skiers in over their head tend to fall and make for good videos with equipment being lost as they fall. Bad snowboarders in over their head tend to slide on their ass down the trail with the wonderful scraping noise. Which is better, depends on if you are one of the people in the "bad" category or not.



I've wathched groups of skiier side slip hour glass from below....If you can't rip it, skip it, no matter what your on...


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Dec 11, 2009)

If one actually looked at a chart with the numbers of skiers and riders in the last 15 years you will quickly see that without the fast growth of snowboarders from 1995 to 2005 we would have alot less resorts than we do now. Regarding the OP, the idea that all skiers might hate snowboarders is total stupidtown.


----------



## Cannonball (Dec 11, 2009)

How is this even a topic of discussion anymore?  This dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.  As a skier, boarder, tele'r who rides with a large group of young/old/male/female skiers, riders, tele'rs I can assure you that any of the perceived conflicts are fictitious. 

Great snow this week.  The season is on!  EVERYONE ENJOY!


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## thorski (Dec 11, 2009)

snoseek said:


> So what are you saying?



I am saying Snowboarders are more likely to hate skiers and be Malicious about it.


----------



## dl (Dec 11, 2009)

Ski Resort Observer said it and I'll reinforce it. The reality is that you should be thanking a snowboarder vs hating one. Without snowboarding the ski industry as a whole would not look like it does today. Technology from snowboards helped change the ways skis are made - all for the better. And, without riders or sliders dozens of ski areas that we enjoy today might not be around. Bottom line - skiers need snowboarders and visa-versa. Next topic.


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## psyflyer (Dec 11, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> If one actually looked at a chart with the numbers of skiers and riders in the last 15 years you will quickly see that without the fast growth of snowboarders from 1995 to 2005 we would have alot less resorts than we do now. Regarding the OP, the idea that all skiers might hate snowboarders is total stupidtown.



Do you know where I can find such a chart?  Thanks in advance.


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## JD (Dec 11, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> If one actually looked at a chart with the numbers of skiers and riders in the last 15 years you will quickly see that without the fast growth of snowboarders from 1995 to 2005 we would have alot less resorts than we do now. Regarding the OP, the idea that all skiers might hate snowboarders is total stupidtown.



So why are they banned at MRG?


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## JD (Dec 11, 2009)

and deer valley.....


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## campgottagopee (Dec 11, 2009)

JD said:


> So why are they banned at MRG?



Great question---for such a place as MRG and all the "soul" it has sure seems un-American to me.


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## polski (Dec 11, 2009)

JD said:


> So why are they banned at MRG?


With apologies to the dead horse ... 

You don't have to "hate" snowboarders (I certainly don't; I hate assholes, whatever's on their feet) to support the ban at MRG (I do, on balance), and only at MRG, on the EC anyway.

As for "un-American," is there nothing more American than doing what you want with your own (first Betsy Pratt's, then the coop's) private property? Again, we're not talking about a civil-rights-protected class here.


----------



## witch hobble (Dec 11, 2009)

JD said:


> So why are they banned at MRG?




My guess is because the transition to cooperative ownership coincided with the mid-late 90s explosive growth in snowboarding.  It was a reactionary thing.  It was stubborn-ness before and since, but a dozen years ago there was a very real possibility that snowboarders were going to take over the world.  And that would mean the terrorists win.


----------



## dmc (Dec 11, 2009)

witch hobble said:


> My guess is because the transition to cooperative ownership coincided with the mid-late 90s explosive growth in snowboarding.  It was a reactionary thing.  It was stubborn-ness before and since, but a dozen years ago there was a very real possibility that snowboarders were going to take over the world.  And that would mean the terrorists win.



Ski-haad!


----------



## Cannonball (Dec 11, 2009)

Oh, the poor horse.

MRG (and the other non-snowboarder mtns) have a very good and simple reason for their ban.  It's called niche marketing.  MRG has great terrain but to compete on the open market with all the other nearby VT resorts they would need to invest in major upgrades.  An alternative to head-to-head competition is to offer a service that consumers can't find elsewhere.  In MRG's case that means no snowboarders, cheap tickets, un-sanitized terrain (and facilities), and a general low-key throw-back groovy vibe. They probably have relatively low operating costs, and can attract just enough skiers to make it work.  It's a decent business model.


----------



## polski (Dec 11, 2009)

I love that this has evolved into yet another MRG-snowboarder-ban thread when it evolved from one of those. Well, actually, I don't love it but I can't help throwing in another $0.02 anyway.



Cannonball said:


> Oh, the poor horse.
> 
> MRG (and the other non-snowboarder mtns) have a very good and simple reason for their ban.  It's called niche marketing.  MRG has great terrain but to compete on the open market with all the other nearby VT resorts they would need to invest in major upgrades.  An alternative to head-to-head competition is to offer a service that consumers can't find elsewhere.  In MRG's case that means no snowboarders, cheap tickets, un-sanitized terrain (and facilities), and a general low-key throw-back groovy vibe. They probably have relatively low operating costs, and can attract just enough skiers to make it work.  It's a decent business model.



I think that's pretty accurate, though from what I know of the history of MRG, I think this niche marketing opportunity flowed organically from an authentic desire to keep the place pretty much as it always has been -- fairly Spartan facilities, very low density of skiers on the trails, reliance on natural snow. Also, to increase uphill capacity or add snowmaking above 2300' now would require bylaw changes, so it wouldn't just be a matter of money but persuading a majority of voting coop members to allow those things, and I think that would be a very tough row to hoe.

I pay pretty close attention to the business model and agree, it's decent. We'll get killed in a bad snow year but do OK in a good winter. The place will never be rolling in dough but I think it's pretty sustainable over the long haul.

p.s. re niche marketing, per Board of Trustees meeting minutes, MRG is applying to have the entire ski area listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Among the arguments in favor was marketing - it would be the first ski area to win the designation.

now i really have to tear myself away from the computer and get shit done so I can ski there Sunday


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 11, 2009)

billski said:


> I suspect newbies who has been on the slopes less than 10 years would agree with you too.



Suprisingly....no. I'd say that teenagers themselves, are actually as divided as the older generation. The result I've found splits more along the lines of choice of emphasis....the "park rats", skiers and boarders alike tend to get along well. Those of us that aren't into the park, are usually the ones with less liking of snowboarders.


----------



## JD (Dec 11, 2009)

Cannonball said:


> Oh, the poor horse.
> 
> MRG (and the other non-snowboarder mtns) have a very good and simple reason for their ban.  It's called niche marketing.  MRG has great terrain but to compete on the open market with all the other nearby VT resorts they would need to invest in major upgrades.  An alternative to head-to-head competition is to offer a service that consumers can't find elsewhere.  In MRG's case that means no snowboarders, cheap tickets, un-sanitized terrain (and facilities), and a general low-key throw-back groovy vibe. They probably have relatively low operating costs, and can attract just enough skiers to make it work.  It's a decent business model.



AS IF that were the reason.  All these excuses made up after the fact that a bitter old lady lost her temper with some children...all of the sudden if become a marketing move...Pa-leese.  LOL.
Someone find a pic of the energizer bunny because this thing just keeps going and going and going....


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 11, 2009)

JD said:


> AS IF that were the reason.  All these excuses made up after the fact that a bitter old lady lost her temper with some children...all of the sudden if become a marketing move...Pa-leese.  LOL.



I don't think too many people dispute that was the initial cause of the outright ban. However, it seems to be working quite well for MRG, why exactly would they want to change it? Their business model is working. They get a ton of free publicity, and their owners are happy. The fact that you don't like it, means nothing, ski somewhere else, or buy into the mountain and work to change it. Their "job" is to please shareholders, and to break even/profit. From all evidence, they are doing both, and that the shareholders overwhelmingly prefer the ban or else it wouldn't exist/would be voted on.

In short: Why should MRG care what you think, if the people that actually make the decisions are happy with the results of their decisions?


----------



## mondeo (Dec 11, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> If one actually looked at a chart with the numbers of skiers and riders in the last 15 years you will quickly see that without the fast growth of snowboarders from 1995 to 2005 we would have alot less resorts than we do now. Regarding the OP, the idea that all skiers might hate snowboarders is total stupidtown.


So you're saying that those snowboarders wouldn't have started skiing if snowboarding wasn't available?
Mid-90s to early 00's snowboarding was the rebel thing to do, leading to a bunch of punks on boards. Now it's mainstream. 95% of the population doesn't care anymore.


----------



## abc (Dec 11, 2009)

JD said:


> All these excuses made up after the fact that a bitter old lady lost her temper with some children...all of the sudden if become a marketing move...Pa-leese.
> Someone find a pic of the energizer bunny because this thing just keeps going and going and going....


Come on! Marketing doesn't have to be original. It only need to be effective! 

MRG shareholders hitch onto the controversy and are milking it the best they can.

The fact this topic keeps coming up is the best evidence that marketing works better than you care to admit!


----------



## snoseek (Dec 11, 2009)

It's probably just the weed talking but both this thread and the cruise control thread are downright hysterical.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Dec 11, 2009)

psyflyer said:


> Do you know where I can find such a chart?  Thanks in advance.



The chart was in an issue of SAM Magazine I have it somewhere. I did find this from a CNN story from 2004

"Participation in alpine, or downhill, skiing in the United States has dropped about 47 percent, to just over 7 million, from a high of more than 12 million in 1988, according to SnowSports Industries America, the industry's largest trade group. 

Participation in snowboarding increased more than 300 percent, to 5.5 million, over the same period, according to SIA."

The whole article
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/01/21/sprj.ski04.snowboarding/index.html


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## redalienx11 (Dec 11, 2009)

snoseek said:


> It's probably just the weed talking but both this thread and the cruise control thread are downright hysterical.



yesssssss


----------



## mondeo (Dec 11, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> The chart was in an issue of SAM Magazine I have it somewhere. I did find this from a CNN story from 2004
> 
> "Participation in alpine, or downhill, skiing in the United States has dropped about 47 percent, to just over 7 million, from a high of more than 12 million in 1988, according to SnowSports Industries America, the industry's largest trade group.
> 
> ...


So overall, skier + boarder numbers... stayed (about) equal!

It's called substitution.


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## JD (Dec 12, 2009)

abc said:


> Come on! Marketing doesn't have to be original. It only need to be effective!
> 
> MRG shareholders hitch onto the controversy and are milking it the best they can.
> 
> The fact this topic keeps coming up is the best evidence that marketing works better than you care to admit!



The topic of how stupid GWBush is caem up alot too.....certainly notbecause he was beloved.


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## billski (Dec 12, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> The chart was in an issue of SAM Magazine I have it somewhere. I did find this from a CNN story from 2004
> 
> "Participation in alpine, or downhill, skiing in the United States has dropped about 47 percent, to just over 7 million, from a high of more than 12 million in 1988, according to SnowSports Industries America, the industry's largest trade group.
> 
> ...



Interestingly, over the past five years, the trend in snowboard adoption has leveled out and skiing has increased once again.  
While not exactly on-topic, I copied a demographic froma 2006 SIA report and recreated a graph with the age spread, just for yucks:
http://www.iabsi.com/ski/misc/skier demographics 2006.pdf

I'll have to search for the reference which gave me that info, but I know it was from SIA.


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## billski (Dec 12, 2009)

I stand corrected, at least for 2008:

 [FONT=&quot]SAM Magazine—Mount Prospect, Ill., July 13, 2009—According to data in the NSGA Sports Participation survey, there were 6.5 million Americans age 7 or older who skied more than once in 2008, along with 5.9 million snowboarders. Those figures represented increases of 1.9 percent and 15.6 percent, respectively, from 2007. Snowboarding was one of six sports, out of 41, with a growth rate of more than 10 percent.

 [/FONT]


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## billski (Dec 12, 2009)

While I was looking, here's some more boarder demographic info.

SAM Magazine—New York, June 11, 2008—According to a new study on injuries and recreational sports, more snowboarders are sent to the emergency room than participants in any other sport. The study, headed by researchers associated with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, was reported in the journal Wilderness and Environmental Medicine. The study is the first to look at injuries from all activities, instead of individual sports or geographic areas.

Researchers examined data from nonfatal injuries from outdoor activities treated at 63 hospitals in 2004 and 2005. They calculated that almost 213,000 people annually were treated for such injuries nationwide. About half of those injured are young, between ages 10 and 24, and half of the injuries are caused by falls. The most common problems were broken bones and sprains, accounting for half of all cases. About 7 percent of ER visits were for concussions or other brain injuries.

Of those injured, about 109,000 (51.5 percent) were young people between the ages of 10 and 24. Males incur injuries at twice the rate as females. Researchers found that snowboarding (25.5 percent), sledding (10.8 percent), and hiking (6.3 percent) were associated with the highest percentage of injuries requiring emergency department visits. Oddly, skiing accounted for less than two percent of emergency visits at the hospitals in the study.

For both men and women of all ages, the most common injuries were fractures (27.4 percent) and sprains (23.9 percent). Of these, most injuries were to the arms or legs (52 percent) or to the head or neck (23.3 percent). Overall, 6.5 percent of outdoor injuries treated were diagnosed as traumatic brain injury (TBI).


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## billski (Dec 12, 2009)

billski said:


> I stand corrected, at least for 2008:
> 
> [FONT=&quot]SAM Magazine—Mount Prospect, Ill., July 13, 2009—According to data in the NSGA Sports Participation survey, there were 6.5 million Americans age 7 or older who skied more than once in 2008, along with 5.9 million snowboarders. Those figures represented increases of 1.9 percent and 15.6 percent, respectively, from 2007. Snowboarding was one of six sports, out of 41, with a growth rate of more than 10 percent.
> 
> [/FONT]



a-ha, here is the chart.  It's the trend that matters.  The devil is in the details:







 [FONT=&quot]"At the end of the 07/08 season, based on rider submissions & Ride Chronicle registrations, Ride's demographics are approximately 85% Male and 15% Female, with the largest age grouping being 18-24 years old. [/FONT]

We received the following insight from SIA's research guru Kelly Davis explaining the growth in snowboarder visits:
Participation was up across the board for 2008. It correlates with the 60.5 million (a new record) skier/rider visits to resorts reported for the 2007/08 season when La Niña conditions brought record snowfall to alpine resorts across the U.S (there were 57.4 million skier rider visits reported in the 2008/09 Kottke End of Season report). According to the NSGA Sports Participation Study, alpine skiing participation was up almost 19% and snowboarding was up 16% for 2008. The sample for the NSGA study is a bit small so we triangulate the results with the Kottke Skier/Rider visits report issued by NSAA and another participation study SIA sponsors along with OIA, SGMA, tennis, golf, NCPPA and others that includes 41,500 responses. We have two seasons of data from that study and cannot use it yet to trend participation, however, for now it serves as a good check on the trends reported by NSGA and a better view of the actual number of snowboard participants. Additionally, that study looks at participation by season rather than by year. The NSGA and the larger SIA Participation Panel study correlate well:

NSGA Participation Study (participated at least 2 times in the given year) – 5,063,000 riders in 2007 and 5,854,000 riders in 2008
SIA Participation Panel Study (participated at least 2 times in the given season) – 5,874,000 for 2006/07 and 6,099,000 riders in 2007/08

also see http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/nsga-snbd-07.pdf


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## campgottagopee (Dec 12, 2009)

polski said:


> With apologies to the dead horse ...
> 
> You don't have to "hate" snowboarders (I certainly don't; I hate assholes, whatever's on their feet) to support the ban at MRG (I do, on balance), and only at MRG, on the EC anyway.
> 
> As for "un-American," is there nothing more American than doing what you want with your own (first Betsy Pratt's, then the coop's) private property? Again, we're not talking about a civil-rights-protected class here.



Beg to differ----there's nothing more un-American than NOT being able to go skiing/riding with ALL your buddys.


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## psyflyer (Dec 12, 2009)

In Technical Anaylsis that chart is still in a positive trend, very positive (bullish).  In fact support would be several thousand riders less than the last print according to that chart.    



billski said:


> a-ha, here is the chart.  It's the trend that matters.  The devil is in the details:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Boardguy (Dec 13, 2009)

abc said:


> Steroetypes don't come out of vacume. Boarders got bad reps because they create the rep in the first place! Boarders jump queues much more often than skiers!!!
> 
> Was the bad rep created by EVERY boarder? NO. But enough of them that the steraotype are reenforced frequently enough to NOT go away.
> 
> When 80-90% of boarders are polite and respectful, I bet the stereotype will die. (it has decreased somewhat already. But personally, I still see more rude boarders than skiers on average)




I have skied and now ride, when someone is banging into my board in the lift line it is always a skier and usually an adult. Go figure.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Dec 13, 2009)

I rarely meet a rider I don't like.  I don't judge a person by how he/she decides to get down the mountain.


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## snafu (Dec 14, 2009)

abc said:


> Come on! Marketing doesn't have to be original. It only need to be effective!
> 
> MRG shareholders hitch onto the controversy and are milking it the best they can.
> 
> The fact this topic keeps coming up is the best evidence that marketing works better than you care to admit!



Oh, now the reason is marketing...its so hard keeping up with the MRG apologists reasoning sometimes:flame:


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## millerm277 (Dec 14, 2009)

snafu said:


> Oh, now the reason is marketing...its so hard keeping up with the MRG apologists reasoning sometimes:flame:



Does it matter what the reason is? I *still* have not seen a reason why they should change, if it's working for them. No s*** it's discriminatory. But it's quite obviously legal, and they seem to be being quite successful. Why would they want to change the formula? Because some people who *aren't* the ones who own it and make decisions don't like it?

There are only two possible reasons to want to change:
- Needing money from boarders.
- Deciding that the ban is "wrong".

Quite clearly, the 1st one isn't going to happen anytime soon, especially since MRG isn't trying to make the most money possible, they just need to break even. So, that leaves the ban being "wrong." You can argue all you want about it, but quite clearly, the people in power, and it could be argued, at least a portion of the people that visit the mountain, don't share your sentiment. In short: We can debate this forever. It will never do a thing.


----------



## JD (Dec 14, 2009)

Personally, I like the way boarders "bump stuff up" over skiers.  Boarders hit bumps and ride them as berms.  Eventually, they start skiing like bermed turns.  When J gets skiied out, it's woods ride like that.  More fun then scraping down the inside "absorbing and extending"...IMO.


----------



## snafu (Dec 14, 2009)

millerm277 said:


> Does it matter what the reason is? I *still* have not seen a reason why they should change, if it's working for them. No s*** it's discriminatory. But it's quite obviously legal, and they seem to be being quite successful. Why would they want to change the formula? Because some people who *aren't* the ones who own it and make decisions don't like it?



Of course the reason matters because there are alot of bulls**t answers that have been tossed about. Sorry I haven't gone away yet.



> There are only two possible reasons to want to change:
> - Needing money from boarders.
> - Deciding that the ban is "wrong".
> 
> Quite clearly, the 1st one isn't going to happen anytime soon, especially since MRG isn't trying to make the most money possible, they just need to break even. So, that leaves the ban being "wrong." You can argue all you want about it, but quite clearly, the people in power, and it could be argued, at least a portion of the people that visit the mountain, don't share your sentiment. In short: We can debate this forever. It will never do a thing.



Dude, here's the deal. Lift-serviced trail access is a very limited commodity. Do you agree? I know I can go hike up any old hill and slide down. But within my day-trip radius there only lies so many lift-served trails that I can go. I also do not necessarily like the vibe of corporate-run mountains. I like glades. I like ungroomed trails and a laid-back vibe too. Oh wait, I guess I could go out and buy my own mountain, right...

(Ok, so all you skiers who still can't walk a mile in a rider's boots you might want to stop reading now, cause here goes another "racial" comment - yes again I know the comparison is strong - so strong it supposedly got ole' Betsy's knickers in a twist - and not appropriate in most aspects but...) 

Why must it be pointed out that we are "beating a dead horse" or "we can debate this forever. It will never do a thing" when discussing the ban? Do you think that people who fought for equal rights where beating a dead horse? Do you think they heard over and over again (lame, unfounded) reasons for the status quo when they questioned it? How many times were they told that it wouldn't change a thing?


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## campgottagopee (Dec 14, 2009)

snafu said:


> Of course the reason matters because there are alot of bulls**t answers that have been tossed about. Sorry I haven't gone away yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Keep after 'em bud---I like your passion


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## dmc (Dec 14, 2009)

I ((heart)) skiers


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## ZYDECORICH (Dec 14, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> No.  I hate anyone who doesn't Know the Code and sits down for a chat in the middle of a trail, or disrespects that the downhill person has the right of way.
> 
> I realize that most mountains wouldn't be able to run with out both skiers and snowboarders.



+2
As redundant as this discussion has been. I have no problems with boarders. My son has been a boarder for 18 years and we attack the mountain together on a regular basis. It really comes down to safety and how you were taught to me. I don't care if you have been skiing or boarding since methuselah was around, knowing "THE CODE" is a basic standard that everyone from the get the F*** out of my way old man skier you should be sitting by the fire in the lodge having a hot toddy...to the punk cutting you off, flying on the green trail knocking over your kid or wife, blocking the entire trail, cursing on line Dou***bag. My father and oldest brother both skied when there were still lace ups and taught my entire family the right way. no one has ever gotten hurt. I think alot of that has gone away. Bravo to those who still teach it. Thanks Root. Thanks Bill.


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## JD (Dec 16, 2009)

still going...


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

The Code is BS...

It contradicts itself...


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

I <3 Tele skiers...


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## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> I ((heart)) skiers



Snowboarders were placed on earth to break up crust layers in the woods.   A laudable public service to the ski community.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Snowboarders were placed on earth to break up crust layers in the woods.   A laudable public service to the ski community.



thank you...  I'm heading out to tele right now... I hope theres a rider chopping crust for me...


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## abc (Dec 16, 2009)

snafu said:


> Dude, here's the deal. Lift-serviced trail access is a very limited commodity. Do you agree?


"Limited commodity"? 

Really?

Last time I heard, there're gazzilion of defunct hills, complete with lifts! 

That's about as bullshit an arguement I've heard from the "other" side.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

abc said:


> That's about as bullshit an arguement I've heard from the "other" side.



I <3 the "other side"


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## ta&idaho (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> I ((heart)) skiers





dmc said:


> I <3 Tele skiers...





dmc said:


> I <3 the "other side"



Am I the only one who thinks that 





> <3


 looks a little like something other than 





> ((heart))


?

[Just trying to inject some levity into this boarder brawl ;-).]


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

ta&idaho said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that  looks a little like something other than ?
> 
> [Just trying to inject some levity into this boarder brawl ;-).]




3>


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## jrad1110 (Dec 16, 2009)

Boardguy said:


> I have skied and now ride, when someone is banging into my board in the lift line it is always a skier and usually an adult. Go figure.



I've been a victim to that too many times. I really don't care if you ski or snowboard. Anyone on here who has says they don't have anything against snowboarders and then follows it with a but followed by what you don't like about boarders doesn't really support your not having anything against them. Stop closet hating! I board and skiers do annoying things but I can't change that. Boarders do a lot of annoying things too. I'm sure I do something that annoys someone but everyone needs to remember that we're out there for fun. If I wanted to be surrounded by annoying people I'd go to the mall.


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## ZYDECORICH (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> The Code is BS...
> 
> It contradicts itself...



sorry you feel that way. hope you don't get hurt or hurt someone else.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

ZYDECORICH said:


> sorry you feel that way. hope you don't get hurt or hurt someone else.



HAHA... Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuulease...   Spare me...
You assume I'm a danger because I question it?  I'm actually quite safe..

On one hand they say that everyone in front of you has the right of way...
On the other hand they say you must look uphill when entering or starting downhill..

Why even look uphill if the uphill skier has the right of way?

Sorry - it's a load of crap that intermediates hide behind when they look uphill and see a skier coming but they don't understand that the speed behind that skier..  And when they jump out in front it's suddenly the uphill skiers fault....

BS....


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## Smellytele (Dec 16, 2009)

What the 2 state is if everyone is already moving the downhill skier has the right of way. If the downhill skier is not moving he needs to look before going. Pretty simple there Simon!


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## ZYDECORICH (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> HAHA... Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuulease...   Spare me...
> You assume I'm a danger because I question it?  I'm actually quite safe..
> 
> On one hand they say that everyone in front of you has the right of way...
> ...




wow aren't we full rage today. i never said you were in danger, i don't know how you ski or board. i'm sure you have your own way to be safe. i just said i hope you don't get hurt or hurt someone else. i assume there may be a chance if your on the side of a trail and take off without looking you may cut someone off. if you do look..see someone and still jump out and take off without judging their speed then your not doing it correctly.its not that up hill skiers fault. seems pretty simple. i have a problem more with the guy who flys by at top speed and almost or does clip my kid on a green trail. he should be able to judge that kid however eractic and get by him with plenty of space and not much problem. i've never had a problem doing that. if not he's probably going to fast for that trail or crowd condition.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

ZYDECORICH said:


> wow aren't we full rage today. i never said you were in danger, i don't know how you ski or board. i'm sure you have your own way to be safe. i just said i hope you don't get hurt or hurt someone else. i assume there may be a chance if your on the side of a trail and take off without looking you may cut someone off. if you do look..see someone and still jump out and take off without judging their speed then your not doing it correctly.its not that up hill skiers fault. seems pretty simple. i have a problem more with the guy who flys by at top speed and almost or does clip my kid on a green trail. he should be able to judge that kid however eractic and get by him with plenty of space and not much problem. i've never had a problem doing that. if not he's probably going to fast for that trail or crowd condition.




Everyone just needs to look and be respectful...

To me it's like pulling out onto the highway in a car...  You have to take into consideration the speed..


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## ZYDECORICH (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Everyone just needs to look and be respectful...
> 
> To me it's like pulling out onto the highway in a car...  You have to take into consideration the speed..



yeah its alot like driving, which is kind of my point in the first quote. most people who are beginners don't have a clue what to do on the slopes, thats why i think the idea of the code is a great way to give them some kind of idea of whats expected safety wise out there. it gives kids anyway some kind of a driving lesson.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

ZYDECORICH said:


> yeah its alot like driving, which is kind of my point in the first quote. most people who are beginners don't have a clue what to do on the slopes, thats why i think the idea of the code is a great way to give them some kind of idea of whats expected safety wise out there. it gives kids anyway some kind of a driving lesson.



But it has to go beyond the "code"...  There's more that people need to know and understand - not just words on paper...


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## JD (Dec 17, 2009)

So glad traffic laws don't come into play on my ski days....the code for us is bring the thermous....pack the boul....look around once in a while to enjoy the scenery.


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## 4aprice (Dec 17, 2009)

JD said:


> ....the code for us is bring the thermous....pack the boul....look around once in a while to enjoy the scenery.



 Just my kind of ski day:razz:

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

JD said:


> So glad traffic laws don't come into play on my ski days....the code for us is bring the thermous....pack the boul....look around once in a while to enjoy the scenery.



Damn.. I need to ski with you and your crew... 

Pants almost dry...  Cant find my kneepads now...   I think I'll have to go without...


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## JD (Dec 17, 2009)

dmc said:


> Damn.. I need to ski with you and your crew...
> 
> Pants almost dry...  Cant find my kneepads now...   I think I'll have to go without...



I would not recomend no knee pads.


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## dbking (Dec 27, 2009)

I am too lazy to prove my point with real statistics but I believe that since snowboarding became mainstream, the theft of skis has declined.


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## MommaBear (Dec 27, 2009)

I have 2 skiers and 1 boarder for kids - they hate each other, yet manage to get along well enough on the slopes.

All in all it comes down to respect for each other - my boarder was complaining the other day about a woman that was making S turns in the terrain park - crossing in front of kids that were headed for jumps and then crossing under the jumps, etc.   She was a hazard.  He "buzzed" her on his way past her.  I'm sure she complained about how some snow boarder came by her really close and really fast.  And I'm sure she had no clue how dangerous her behavior was on that trail. 

And yes, I lectured my snowboarder for the buzz, but I certainly sympathized with his frustration.


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## mondeo (Dec 27, 2009)

dbking said:


> I am too lazy to prove my point with real statistics but I believe that since snowboarding became mainstream, the theft of skis has declined.


Meanwhile, theft of snowboards has increased. Obviously crimes of hate by skiers.


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## dmc (Dec 28, 2009)

I <<heart>> skis

They cost more then snowboards...  Can fence them for a couple hundo on the streets..


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## dmc (Dec 28, 2009)

dbking said:


> I am too lazy to prove my point with real statistics but I believe that since snowboarding became mainstream, the theft of skis has declined.



I suspect horse theft dropped off too after people started using cars..  But I can't prove it..


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## 2knees (Dec 28, 2009)

there was a dude snowboarding the bumps yesterday like nobody's business.  I finally caught up to him just to tell him how amazing it was to watch.

it was absolutely incredible.  the guy was going faaaaaast and staying directly in the line.  most amazing thing i've seen on snow in a long time.

and i f$#kin hated him for being so good at it.......


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## Kerovick (Dec 28, 2009)

I did a non scientific count at the resort I work at, the ratio of riders to skiers was 3:2


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## mckay (Dec 29, 2009)

This has probably already been addressed, but why isn't there a rule for where snowboarders can sit when they get off the lift or a marked off area where they should be?

I have nothing agains snowboarders. Snowboarding looks like fun, I might try it someday, I just don't understand why ski areas can't designate an area snowboarders need to be in after they get off the lift. I skied Crotched christmas eve day. Almost every time I got off the lift on the left side of the mountain I had to hike to get around a wall of snowboarders who were strapping up (or whatever it's called). I encounter this kind of thing everywhere I go.


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## JD (Dec 29, 2009)

mckay said:


> This has probably already been addressed, but why isn't there a rule for where snowboarders can sit when they get off the lift or a marked off area where they should be?
> 
> I have nothing agains snowboarders. Snowboarding looks like fun, I might try it someday, I just don't understand why ski areas can't designate an area snowboarders need to be in after they get off the lift. I skied Crotched christmas eve day. Almost every time I got off the lift on the left side of the mountain I had to hike to get around a wall of snowboarders who were strapping up (or whatever it's called). I encounter this kind of thing everywhere I go.



I think it's called strapping ON.  Strapping on where ever they want.  Another reason to hate Schnee trayers.


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## dmc (Dec 29, 2009)

mckay said:


> This has probably already been addressed, but why isn't there a rule for where snowboarders can sit when they get off the lift or a marked off area where they should be?
> 
> I have nothing agains snowboarders. Snowboarding looks like fun, I might try it someday, I just don't understand why ski areas can't designate an area snowboarders need to be in after they get off the lift. I skied Crotched christmas eve day. Almost every time I got off the lift on the left side of the mountain I had to hike to get around a wall of snowboarders who were strapping up (or whatever it's called). I encounter this kind of thing everywhere I go.



Check the other side of the wall of snowboarders... there's usually a group of skiers blocking their way..    Snowboard are not as easy to move around on before strapping in...  Given moving around a group of skiers that "have nothing against them" or just stoppung a putting on the boards  - they will take the path of least resistance..


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