# KBL Damaged/Killington Damage Reports



## bobbutts (Aug 29, 2011)

:sad:


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## Highway Star (Aug 29, 2011)

Not entirely....just the SS pub, I think.


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## Gnarcissaro (Aug 29, 2011)

I assume you mean, this.

Shitty.


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## bobbutts (Aug 29, 2011)

yeah, exactly.. I read about it on the challenge thread, so figured the main forum could use a thread too.. The pics from up there are scary, hopefully it's limited to property damage.

Appears to be damage at Ram's Head and Snowshed as well as major road damage all over.


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## SkiDork (Aug 29, 2011)

K seems to be isolated right now - all roads in washed out...


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## NJSkiBabe (Aug 29, 2011)

Unfortunately it is true. The KBL is gone. Rutland news is reporting that the Killington base lodge has totally collapsed.


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## SkiDork (Aug 29, 2011)

NJSkiBabe said:


> Unfortunately it is true. The KBL is gone. Rutland news is reporting that the Killington base lodge has totally collapsed.



further damage?


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## dangah (Aug 29, 2011)

NJSkiBabe said:


> Unfortunately it is true. The KBL is gone. Rutland news is reporting that the Killington base lodge has totally collapsed.



This information is inaccurate. It was the Superstar Pub portion that sustained damage which is on a separate foundation from the main portion of the K-1 Lodge.

The resort is still without power and all major roads into Killington are closed.

Crews are assessing damage and updates will be forthcoming on our blog

Chris Danforth
Marketing Manager
Killington Resort


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## SkiDork (Aug 29, 2011)

dangah said:


> This information is inaccurate. It was the Superstar Pub portion that sustained damage which is on a separate foundation from the main portion of the K-1 Lodge.
> 
> The resort is still without power and all major roads into Killington are closed.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the update Chris.  +++vibes+++ for you guys to get through all this...


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## snowmonster (Aug 29, 2011)

Very sad to hear this. I trust that K will be up and running in no time. 

+ vibes to all the good people of VT to get through all this. Hurricane or tropical storm, Irene left one big mess!


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## Ridgeman (Aug 29, 2011)

Good luck on your recovery.   The Big K is not alone in this one. Based on what I have read the challage is going to be to get the roads and bridges replaced.   A lot of folks are going to need a lot of help to over come this one.


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## SIKSKIER (Aug 29, 2011)

I hope Threecy is making the trip to record the environmental damage Killington has perpetrated by having all those ski trails cut of their trees.:flame:


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## SIKSKIER (Aug 29, 2011)

This link has some sobering photos of the damage.Wow!

http://live.tetongravity.com/_News-...Killington-Base-Lodge/blog/5076985/75233.html


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## Puck it (Aug 29, 2011)

SIKSKIER said:


> I hope Threecy is making the trip to record the environmental damage Killington has perpetrated by having all those ski trails cut of their trees.:flame:


 

Any damage at Cannon?


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## Black Phantom (Aug 29, 2011)

SIKSKIER said:


> I hope Threecy is making the trip to record the environmental damage Killington has perpetrated by having all those ski trails cut of their trees.:flame:



Killington is not a State run ski area last I checked.  There are plenty of folks that will be monitoring every step of this natural disaster assessing the possible damage to the various eco systems.


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## Bostonian (Aug 29, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Thanks for the update Chris.  +++vibes+++ for you guys to get through all this...



+1 here... Definitely some positive vibes to the K-Mart crew...  Looking forward to hitting K this season as I did miss out last year.


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## Tin Woodsman (Aug 29, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Any damage at Cannon?



Yes, but threecy assures me there's no reason to believe it was the work of Mother Nature.


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## bobbutts (Aug 29, 2011)

Obsessed with Threecy much?
it's a little creepy, he didn't even post in this thread


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## Nick (Aug 29, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Thanks for the update Chris.  +++vibes+++ for you guys to get through all this...



+1, my best skiing memories of my childhood are all at Killington, have a lot of memories from all across that mountain. 

Looking forward to learning more about the recovery from this!


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## TheBEast (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm still in a state of shock over all the damage.  I grew up in Hartford, VT and seeing all the photos and videos from friends still in the area is just unbelievable.  I have an aunt and uncle who are completely trapped in their house as all the roads out of their area are rivers or washed away.  Insane.

Vibes to the K crew as they work on getting things cleaned up.


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## WJenness (Aug 29, 2011)

Words can not express the anger that boils inside of me every time I hear someone complain that the storm was "overhyped" or "a bust"...

Just because NYC wasn't inundated with flooding doesn't mean the storm wasn't a big deal... 

</vent>

-w


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## oakapple (Aug 29, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Words can not express the anger that boils inside of me every time I hear someone complain that the storm was "overhyped" or "a bust"...
> 
> Just because NYC wasn't inundated with flooding doesn't mean the storm wasn't a big deal...


Yes, I agree the coverage was far too New York-centric. Part of the reason is that the MSM has a lot of reporters based there, and none of the forecasts suggested that the Catskills or Vermont would get hit as hard as they were.

But the top story above-the-fold at nytimes.com right now says:



> As blue skies returned on Monday, a clearer picture of the storm’s devastation emerged, with the gravest consequences stemming from flooding in Vermont and upstate New York.


I think they have caught on.


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## Watatic Skier (Aug 30, 2011)

I hope they can fix it before the ski season. A few years ago something similar happened to the Barker lodge at SR, and that was fixed in a month or so I believe.


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## SIKSKIER (Aug 30, 2011)

*Point taken*



bobbutts said:


> Obsessed with Threecy much?
> it's a little creepy, he didn't even post in this thread



Ya,I guess.I was trying to be wise guy funny.Guess I wasn't.


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## SkiDork (Aug 30, 2011)

Whenever you (or at least me) think "Hurricane" you always think of coastal damage.  I never associate it with damage hundreds of miles inland.  I learned something new and sobering here.


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## oakapple (Aug 30, 2011)

Watatic Skier said:


> I hope they can fix it before the ski season.


It looks like a total loss to me, bearing in mind the very short summer construction season in Vermont: that's why the Peak Lodge replacement project is taking two years. For the next couple of months, anyone in the construction trades in Vermont is going to have more work than there is time to get it done. We're two days from the start of September, and Vermont quite frequently sees its first snow in late October.


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## Geoff (Aug 30, 2011)

oakapple said:


> It looks like a total loss to me, bearing in mind the very short summer construction season in Vermont: that's why the Peak Lodge replacement project is taking two years. For the next couple of months, anyone in the construction trades in Vermont is going to have more work than there is time to get it done. We're two days from the start of September, and Vermont quite frequently sees its first snow in late October.



The KBL is not a "total loss".   The original base lodge structure is completely intact.   The Mahogany Ridge addition is going to need some serious repairs starting with foundation work on the east side facing Superstar.   They could decide it's cheaper to rip it down and start over but they're so short on base lodge square footage at the moment that I'll bet they opt to repair it.   It's only the Superstar Pub addition that was destroyed.  That's hardly ever open anyways.

KBL is not a mountaintop lodge.   It's at 2500 feet.   You can drive concrete trucks right up to it.   You can pour concrete in October.  Killington could use a lot of their own staff to do the work if they wanted to.


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## Nick (Aug 30, 2011)

Yeah down here in MA all i'm still hearing is how overhyped this storm was. 

It's like VT isn't even a part of New England to these yahoos. :roll:


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## WJenness (Aug 30, 2011)

Nick said:


> Yeah down here in MA all i'm still hearing is how overhyped this storm was.
> 
> It's like VT isn't even a part of New England to these yahoos. :roll:



I just had the same argument with some of my friends.

This comic actually made me angry: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/weather

The artist's disclaimer at the bottom only served to enrage me further.

-w


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## bvibert (Aug 30, 2011)

WJenness said:


> This comic actually made me angry: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/weather
> 
> The artist's disclaimer at the bottom only served to enrage me further.
> 
> -w



What a dick.  Someone should air lift him into the middle of any one of the isolated towns in VT, and leave him there.

CT and MA both came through Irene relatively easily, much better than was expected based on the media coverage leading up to the storm.  That was largely because the storm shifted even further to the west than expected.


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## SkiDork (Aug 30, 2011)

not sure you guys "got" that cartoon...  nothing really offensive there...


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## oakapple (Aug 30, 2011)

Geoff said:


> The KBL is not a "total loss".   The original base lodge structure is completely intact.   The Mahogany Ridge addition is going to need some serious repairs starting with foundation work on the east side facing Superstar.   They could decide it's cheaper to rip it down and start over but they're so short on base lodge square footage at the moment that I'll bet they opt to repair it.   It's only the Superstar Pub addition that was destroyed.  That's hardly ever open anyways.


You took me out of context. What I meant was that the Superstar Pub looks like a total loss, not the whole KBL.


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## bvibert (Aug 30, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> not sure you guys "got" that cartoon...  nothing really offensive there...



I "got" the cartoon, and in general tend to agree, it was his disclaimer about Irene being over-hyped and the staff of the weather channel buying themselves new mega-yachts as a result that pissed me off.


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## skiadikt (Aug 30, 2011)

Nick said:


> Yeah down here in MA all i'm still hearing is how overhyped this storm was.
> 
> It's like VT isn't even a part of New England to these yahoos. :roll:



here's jim cantore's message on the damage in vermont and the "overhyping":


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2011)

I lived in Florida during the summer of 04, and 4 major hurricanes; Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne.  I don't think the Irene coverage was any more 'hyped' than what I watched on the news back then.  

The primary difference is people in the Northeast are not used to watching hurricane coverage 24-7 on the TV because we don't really ever have hurricanes.


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## SkiDork (Aug 30, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I "got" the cartoon, and in general tend to agree, it was his disclaimer about Irene being over-hyped and the staff of the weather channel buying themselves new mega-yachts as a result that pissed me off.



oh that I didn't see


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## WJenness (Aug 30, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I "got" the cartoon, and in general tend to agree, it was his disclaimer about Irene being over-hyped and the staff of the weather channel buying themselves new mega-yachts as a result that pissed me off.



Agreed.

In general, I'm all for poking fun at the weather guys when they get something wrong, which happens from time to time... Nobody is perfect, and weather can do crazy things... However, I felt like the second panel really denigrated anyone who actually had to deal with severe impacts from Irene... (by specifically calling out the forecast of Irene)

People in North Carolina, Virginia, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Upstate New York, Long Island, Connecticut, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Massachusetts all had SIGNIFICANT impacts from this storm... Yeah, the coverage of the storm was centered around what "could" happen in NYC... Luckily, it didn't... But It could have... Look at the flooding in Newark, NJ... If the storm tracked 15 miles further east, that very well could have been downtown Manhattan.

-w


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## drjeff (Aug 30, 2011)

skiadikt said:


> here's jim cantore's message on the damage in vermont and the "overhyping":



Cantore seriously has led the way in the major media about what Irene did (being a native Vermonter likely had a bit to do with it). If it wasn't for him, my guess is that the Irene stories across the national media would have been more about how Irene wasn't so bad in the major cities, with only minor coverage of the devastation in VT, the Catskills and Western Jersey


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## St. Bear (Aug 30, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I lived in Florida during the summer of 04, and 4 major hurricanes; Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne.  I don't think the Irene coverage was any more 'hyped' than what I watched on the news back then.
> 
> The primary difference is people in the Northeast are not used to watching hurricane coverage 24-7 on the TV because we don't really ever have hurricanes.



Agreed.

Also, Irene was deserving of the hype for 2 reasons.
1) The rarity of a northeast hurricane.  Before this past weekend, NYC had experienced 5 hurricanes since the late 1800s.  NJ hadn't had one make landfall in the state since 1903.  This was a signficant event, no matter what the result.
2) The pressure readings and other vital statistics all measured out to a Cat 3 storm, even into NYC, but for whatever reason it didn't materialize.  That's very noteworthy, and also serves to explain why the impact was felt so far away from the eye.


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## bobbutts (Aug 30, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I lived in Florida during the summer of 04, and 4 major hurricanes; Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne.  I don't think the Irene coverage was any more 'hyped' than what I watched on the news back then.
> 
> The primary difference is people in the Northeast are not used to watching hurricane coverage 24-7 on the TV because we don't really ever have hurricanes.



Me too..   Most people I talked to in Port Charlotte (hit directly) after Charley  struck would have liked more hype.  Lots of normal people even had to work that day due to businesses ignoring the warnings and too few made many preparations.  That's what happens when a storm exceeds the forecast, and it does happen once in awhile.


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## dangah (Aug 30, 2011)

Some more photos of Irene damage at Killington Resort:

http://www.facebook.com/killingtonresort#!/media/set/?set=a.10150290324499401.342389.34949209400

Chris Danforth
Marketing Manager
Killington Resort


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2011)

I was in Nokomis/Venice, 20 miles to the Northwest.  zip for damage in our neighborhood.  I think the Port Charlotte folks got screwed mainly because the storm was supposed to go right into Tampa Bay.  In Venice they were saying it was unlikely Charley would make landfall that far south.  Turns out, it ducked in south of Venice.  

Charley was tiny, but super powerful.  I believe a Cat 4 right before it hit.  If Irene was a Cat 3 at the size storm it was, the scope of the damage would be unimaginable.

I've got no problem with weathermen hyping hurricanes to the max.  Snowstorms?  That's a little different.


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## Newpylong (Aug 30, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Words can not express the anger that boils inside of me every time I hear someone complain that the storm was "overhyped" or "a bust"...
> 
> Just because NYC wasn't inundated with flooding doesn't mean the storm wasn't a big deal...
> 
> ...



I'm just two towns below you in Billerica (Pinehurst) and I was in my basement for the better part of Sunday. We had consistent 40 mph winds with frequent gusts to 70. All around my house are 60 foot tall old pines... one came down in the woods 10 feet from the house and that was enough for me. Needless to say some of my friends in Boston were barely getting rain, and were sure to say how much of a bust the storm was on Facebook. Needless to say I was bullshit at the time and even more so after seeing what happened to Vermont. I think their tune has changed...


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 30, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I lived in Florida during the summer of 04, and 4 major hurricanes; Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne.  I don't think the Irene coverage was any more 'hyped' than what I watched on the news back then.
> 
> The primary difference is people in the Northeast are not used to watching hurricane coverage 24-7 on the TV because we don't really ever have hurricanes.


Thats because they were after Andrew.....that storm changed a lot for building code in Dade...I went through that in 02 and will never stick around for a cat 5 ever again.


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## riverc0il (Aug 30, 2011)

Here is the thing.... the storm actually WAS over hyped until the flooding happened on the back end of the storm. Also, I think we should keep in mind the hype was coastal. Inland issues were largely ignored. The problem is not over hyping but rather regional context. It could have just as easily have been coastal instead. The storm, on paper, was powerful enough to really hurt the coast. Instead, the largely ignored inland area got nailed. Good thing those folks heard hype about the storm so they could be as well protected as possible. Lots of folks are now trapped inside rivers with no bridge out and have to rely on themselves for food. Bet they are glad (or wish they had) made that emergency grocery and batteries run.


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## bobbutts (Aug 30, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I was in Nokomis/Venice, 20 miles to the Northwest.  zip for damage in our neighborhood.  I think the Port Charlotte folks got screwed mainly because the storm was supposed to go right into Tampa Bay.  In Venice they were saying it was unlikely Charley would make landfall that far south.  Turns out, it ducked in south of Venice.
> 
> Charley was tiny, but super powerful.  I believe a Cat 4 right before it hit.  If Irene was a Cat 3 at the size storm it was, the scope of the damage would be unimaginable.
> 
> I've got no problem with weathermen hyping hurricanes to the max.  Snowstorms?  That's a little different.



funny, my friend came to stay with me from Englewood after I told him he probably didn't want to be near the beach for the storm.  Zero damage at his place too.
I was super lucky, only needed a new roof and lanai and only minor water damage.. It pretty much came down to whose house got hit by flying debris and didn't.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 30, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I lived in Florida during the summer of 04, and 4 major hurricanes; Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne.  I don't think the Irene coverage was any more 'hyped' than what I watched on the news back then.
> 
> The primary difference is people in the Northeast are not used to watching hurricane coverage 24-7 on the TV because we don't really ever have hurricanes.



Yes, but in the northeast we get things called nor easters, blizzards, snow, etc, and in this day and age the local media go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard with 6 inches of snow.  Let's be honest it's good for ad revenue for them to make a mountain out of a molehill.


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## Puck it (Aug 30, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Yes, but in the northeast we get things called nor easters, blizzards, snow, etc, and in this day and age the local media go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard with 6 inches of snow.  Let's be honest it's good for ad revenue for them to make a mountain out of a molehill.



There are a lot of people without power still. My son is going on his fourth day.  UCONN started classes today, too. He lives off campus and we put him up in a hotel with his roommates. He may jot get power back until Thursday.  Yeah, way too much hype.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 30, 2011)

Puck it said:


> There are a lot of people without power still. My son is going on his fourth day.  UCONN started classes today, too. He lives off campus and we put him up in a hotel with his roommates. He may jot get power back until Thursday.  Yeah, way too much hype.



I didn't say this was way too much hype (from the weathermens perspective), heck in Vermont, Upstate NY and parts of NH they nailed it.  The rain aspect they got just about perfect, the wind was a little off, but still enough to do damage.  I do doubt the media's motives for the "hype", good for ratings or good for the people.  I just find it funny when you got a WMUR guy doing his live report outside the studio with drizzle coming down and thus began the 12 straight hours of storm coverage.  No need to be a dick.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Here is the thing.... the storm actually WAS over hyped until the flooding happened on the back end of the storm. .



disagree

wasn't overhyped AT ALL . Misforecasted? absolutely.  Overhyped? No

They didn't get the forecast right on wind speed, it wasn't a Cat 2-3 (thank god), but they di get the forecast right for 6-10 inches of rain though.  No one knew the kind of damage that much rain would do as it hasn't happened in our country's history.  Think about that.  500 year floods for parts of NY, VT, NJ.  No one knew what that much rain could do on saturated soil in the Northeast because it's never happened in recorded history before on such a large scale.  Rhode Island last year comes close.

Some folks are saying Irene will produce damages in excess of 10 Billion dollars.  To put that in perspective, that's two years of our state's budget.  More tragic is that so far 42 people are dead from the storm.

With those kind of numbers, I don't know how it can be said that the storm was overhyped.  It was a BAD MOFO any way you add it up.

Hurricanes are far more dangerous than snowstorms.  I've got no problem with weathermen screaming wolf as loud as they can whenever a hurricane comes near human life.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2011)

ALLSKIING said:


> Thats because they were after Andrew.....that storm changed a lot for building code in Dade...I went through that in 02 and will never stick around for a cat 5 ever again.



you're older than that dude.  Andrew was in 92   :lol:


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## Nick (Aug 31, 2011)

dangah said:


> Some more photos of Irene damage at Killington Resort:
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/killingtonresort#!/media/set/?set=a.10150290324499401.342389.34949209400
> 
> ...



Wow, just some amazing shots. Best of luck with the recovery for all that. Would love to hear more about the plan, someone already has that covered in the challenge questions.


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## drjeff (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> disagree
> 
> wasn't overhyped AT ALL . Misforecasted? absolutely.  Overhyped? No
> 
> ...



Well said!


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## Puck it (Aug 31, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I didn't say this was way too much hype (from the weathermens perspective), heck in Vermont, Upstate NY and parts of NH they nailed it.  The rain aspect they got just about perfect, the wind was a little off, but still enough to do damage.  I do doubt the media's motives for the "hype", good for ratings or good for the people.  I just find it funny when you got a WMUR guy doing his live report outside the studio with drizzle coming down and thus began the 12 straight hours of storm coverage.  No need to be a dick.


Not being a dick, but too many people are saying the storm was overplayed. For some yes, others no.


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## drjeff (Aug 31, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Not being a dick, but too many people are saying the storm was overplayed. For some yes, others no.



Still though, IMHO, much better to be overprepared and have a storm "underperform" for you than be underprepared and have a storm "overperform" for you.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> disagree
> 
> 
> riverc0il said:
> ...


I don't even agree with "misforecasted". By its very nature, a forecast is imperfect. It's a range of probabilities. What _actually_ happened was well within the ambit of what the forecast said _could_ happen.

Obviously, there will always be emphasis on the "worst that could happen," even if it's unlikely in the absolute sense. If you've got six chambers and five are empty, a sensible forecast will advise that if you fire the gun at your head, there is a significant chance of death. If you happen to survive, that doesn't mean the forecast was inaccurate. You have to tell people how bad it could be.

Weather forecasting has become so good that when it isn't perfect, people will say it was over-hyped or erroneous, because they don't understand what a _forecast_ is.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

To be honest, not to discredit Vermont, but this storm was made out to be worse than Katrina. 

While the flooding in Vermont has been severe, to say this storm lived up to its expectations put up by CNN etc is hogwash. A couple thousand people without power and flooded out roads is fixable in a couple weeks, tops. Maybe not to the point where it looks like nothing happened, but Vermont is not going to look like New Orleans does now in 5 years. Lets be real here. In a couple days people will be traveling about Vermont on dirt roads instead of pavement, with a couple detours, OH THE HORROR! While it sucks for the people who lost their homes, they should have flood insurance, or else its their own fault. 

Overhyped definitely. But for the unfortunate ones who are stuck momentarily, I can see them wanting to blow off steam.


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## jimmywilson69 (Aug 31, 2011)

your kidding right?  there are entire roads washed out and towns inaccessible.

Vermont's entire economy is hanging in limbo right now.


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## drjeff (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> To be honest, not to discredit Vermont, but this storm was made out to be worse than Katrina.
> 
> While the flooding in Vermont has been severe, to say this storm lived up to its expectations put up by CNN etc is hogwash. A couple thousand people without power and flooded out roads is fixable in a couple weeks, tops. Maybe not to the point where it looks like nothing happened, but Vermont is not going to look like New Orleans does now in 5 years. Lets be real here.
> 
> Overhyped definitely. But for the unfortunate ones who are stuck momentarily, I can see them wanting to blow off steam.



A couple of thousand people??  Try a storm total of over 2.5 MILLION people.  Heck we still have about 300,000 without power here in CT alone!


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## Black Phantom (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> To be honest, not to discredit Vermont, but this storm was made out to be worse than Katrina.
> 
> While the flooding in Vermont has been severe, to say this storm lived up to its expectations put up by CNN etc is hogwash. A couple thousand people without power and flooded out roads is fixable in a couple weeks, tops. Maybe not to the point where it looks like nothing happened, but Vermont is not going to look like New Orleans does now in 5 years. Lets be real here. In a couple days people will be traveling about Vermont on dirt roads instead of pavement, with a couple detours, OH THE HORROR! While it sucks for the people who lost their homes, they should have flood insurance, or else its their own fault.
> 
> Overhyped definitely. But for the unfortunate ones who are stuck momentarily, I can see them wanting to blow off steam.



wow


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> To be honest, not to discredit Vermont, but this storm was made out to be worse than Katrina.
> 
> While the flooding in Vermont has been severe, to say this storm lived up to its expectations put up by CNN etc is hogwash. A couple thousand people without power and flooded out roads is fixable in a couple weeks, tops. Maybe not to the point where it looks like nothing happened, but Vermont is not going to look like New Orleans does now in 5 years. Lets be real here.
> 
> Overhyped definitely. But for the unfortunate ones who are stuck momentarily, I can see them wanting to blow off steam.



You're kidding, right? Can you spend more than 5 minutes looking at the devastation, and tell me this is "momentary"? Based on fatalities, Irene is now the 4th-deadliest hurricane in U.S. history. Current estimates of the damage, which are probably low (because not all is known yet), are between $14 and $26 billion. At the low end, it would be the 8th-worst in history; at the high end, it would be 4th-worst.

It won't match Katrina, but it doesn't change the fact that this was very, very bad. In Vermont, it's a 100-year flood.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm not so sure New Orleans is a fair comparison.  New Orleans got screwed because it was built below sea level.  If Katrina had hit say Tampa, you wouldn't have had near the devestation.  It still would've been big.

My friend Renee who lives in Wilmington, VT said numerous downtown business owners are looking to move on.  It's just not worth it to rebuild their businesses.  They didn't make a lot of money in the first place, so they plan on taking their insurance money and finding something else to do.  I don't think that town will be the same as before the storm 5 years from now.  I hope I'm wrong.

Irene didn't hit as a Cat 2 or 3 in Manhattan like feared, but early estimates have it as one of the top 5 most costly storms to ever hit the US.  I don't really think such devastation can be overhyped.


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 31, 2011)

Frankly none of this matters EXCEPT the fact that way too many folks are really hurting right now . Life is still at risk for those with serious medical conditions who may be isolated due to road washouts in several directions .

My thoughts are with them not some internet pissing match about who's dick is bigger >


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> they plan on taking their insurance money and finding something else to do.



This is my point. While the monetary damage is awe inspiring, insurance will cover 90% of the losses this storm caused, which technically, the business owners have already paid for that probably many times over in insurance premiums. At least they are getting their money back. 

Not shortchanging deaths in any shape or form, those are unfortunate. Theres nothing than can justify someones life. 

But I dont feel bad for insurance claims and a couple washed out roads that are inconvienient right now. The damage is not like Andrew, Katrina, or any other myriad of hurricanes that have absolutely leveled entire communities.


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## bvibert (Aug 31, 2011)

Where was the storm ever predicted to be worse than Katrina?  That's a new one to me.  The reports I saw indicated that the storm could have similar, but probably less, strength compared to Gloria, but would be moving much slower.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> This is my point. While the monetary damage is awe inspiring, insurance will cover 90% of the losses this storm caused, which technically, the business owners have already paid for that probably many times over in insurance premiums.


Boy, you sure don't want to get educated, do you? The usual rule of thumb is that insurance covers 50% of the losses, not 90%. Some reports have suggested it could be less in this case, because many insurance policies have flood exclusions.

Besides that, I suspect that if you lost _your_ home or business, you wouldn't be making light of it, regardless of how much insurance money you could get. A home or business has intangible value that no amount of money can replace.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 31, 2011)

My only question is who does the hype or over hype really hurt in the long run?  It really can't be a bad thing right?  My only issue is what they chose to hype (NYC).  This has more to do with the National Media more than anything.  They were quick to move on from Virginia and NC (who got hit just as hard as anyone) to get to the real golden goose NYC.  In the end, why would anyone follow the national coverage vs their local coverage.  I know in VT, Upstate NY and NH the weathermen nailed this.  The media in NH was over the top with their coverage leading up to it and during it at times, but again who does this hurt?  Heck I found the Vermont coverage by the local Vermont stations were actually caught off guard more then anything, so much so their reporting was slow because they didn't have people in place to report and once it happend they were stuck on the outskirts using youtube and online photos as there main sources of info.  The wind in the northern NE states particularly NH really didn't amount to much, but as you know, it's not the wind that kills people during hurricanes, it's the floodwaters.  This is often where the overhype claim can be made as places like CNN and the big three tend to focus on the wind while it's the flooding they should focus on.  All this being said I am in NH and obviously don't watch alot of news outside the area and don't watch alot of national news so I could be off in my assesment.

Sorry for the babbling.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 31, 2011)

Warp Daddy said:


> Frankly none of this matters EXCEPT the fact that way too many folks are really hurting right now . Life is still at risk for those with serious medical conditions who may be isolated due to road washouts in several directions .
> 
> My thoughts are with them not some internet pissing match about who's dick is bigger >



Word has it that a man from the Jacksonville/Whitingham area has died due to lack of medication.


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## WJenness (Aug 31, 2011)

Agree with bvibert... Nowhere did anyone say that Irene would be 'worse' than Katrina.

Katrina was a Cat 5 in the gulf at one point and heading DIRECTLY for New Orleans... 

Which brings me to another point, I've heard some people say that Katrina 'came out of nowhere'... no it didn't... the weather people knew it was coming and crowed as loud as possible about it for DAYS before it made landfall... I remember watching it... Most people just weren't paying attention because it wasn't going to impact their lives... Until the gas prices shot up anyway...

Something to consider is that Irene was the first Hurricane to make landfall ANYWHERE in the US since 2008... It's path probably impacted more Americans than ANY other storm in history. As a result, of course it's going to drum up more coverage... as it should... But the big difference I see is the prevalence of social media now (Twitter, Youtube, facebook, smartphones, etc.) vs. 3 years ago. So much more coverage pre-storm and damage reports during and post storm have amplified the perception of this storm in the eyes of many... Jim Cantore standing at Battery Park a couple of days before the storm was to hit NY certainly drew more attention now than it would have three years ago, because so many people talked / tweeted / facebooked about it, that everyone was focused on it. It simply wouldn't have happened the same way even just three short years ago.


However, Irene was a very damaging storm... It doesn't matter if the losses are / were covered by insurance... They are still losses and impacts on people's lives and communities... Many of these VT communities will be irrevocably changed by this storm... Some may end up being 'better' communities (whatever that means) after coming through this... but many will not.

AdironRider, you are CLEARLY out of touch with what's going on if you think that even a significant minority of the infrastructure damaged will be passable in any form over the next few days.

-w


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

bvibert said:


> Where was the storm ever predicted to be worse than Katrina?  That's a new one to me.  The reports I saw indicated that the storm could have similar, but probably less, strength compared to Gloria, but would be moving much slower.



Every news channel out there. 

Even CNBC was making predictions like that. Im sorry, but if the financial news channels are babbling on about it, its getting a little overhyped. Traders were chomping at the bit hoping to ride a massive oil shock like happened after Katrina. Its almost like the media wanted it to happen for ratings. 

If it was my house, Id take my insurance money, fix it, then maybe make a plan to prevent it from happening the the future. 

Everyone makes choices in life. Buying a house by a something called the 'roaring brook' was a concious decision. Anyone who was naive enough to think a flood couldnt happen to them might want to reaccess their priorities. But thats just the Libertarian in me coming out.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> My only issue is what they chose to hype (NYC).  This has more to do with the National Media more than anything.  They were quick to move on from Virginia and NC (who got hit just as hard as anyone) to get to the real golden goose NYC.


To the extent the word "hype" applies, it was appropriate. Because of the population density in NYC, and that fact that it's not built to withstand a hurricane, a direct Category 1 or 2 hit would have released devastation on scale you cannot imagine. The same storm in Miami would not have anywhere near the same impact.

Since preparations take several days, you have to tell people as soon as the models show a realistic (say, 5% or greater) probability of that happening. The word "hype" is probably a misnomer here, because it connotes publicity blown up beyond what is necessary or important. This was what had to be done.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Thats just the Libertarian in me coming out.


That's just the guy who can't be bothered to do any research coming out.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

Say what you will, but I stand by my statements. Waterfront property purchases are a concious decision.


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## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> This is my point. While the monetary damage is awe inspiring, insurance will cover 90% of the losses this storm caused, which technically, the business owners have already paid for that probably many times over in insurance premiums. At least they are getting their money back.
> 
> Not shortchanging deaths in any shape or form, those are unfortunate. Theres nothing than can justify someones life.
> 
> But I dont feel bad for insurance claims and a couple washed out roads that are inconvienient right now. The damage is not like Andrew, Katrina, or any other myriad of hurricanes that have absolutely leveled entire communities.




You've never owned a house have you? Unless you are required to have flood insurance, most people don't. Then something like this happens and people aren't covered. Many of the people effected by this were not exactly next to rivers so how is this "waterfront property"? 

Regular home owner's insurance will NOT necessarily cover flood damage. If they do, it won't be 100%. It covers leaks, water getting into the basement from storms, pip bursts, etc, but not this.

This didn't level entire communities? Check out the videos of Wilmington, VT... the downtown area is a complete loss. What's the difference between no building and one that is not habitable?


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## bvibert (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Every news channel out there.



I never once saw a comparison to Katrina before your statement in this thread.  The only comparisons we were getting were in regards to hurricane Gloria.  I'd stop watching whatever channels you were watching if I were you.

Anyone who says that the storm was over-hyped, or that the damage is being over-hyped isn't in touch with what's going on throughout Irene's path.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Say what you will, but I stand by my statements. Waterfront property purchases are a concious decision.



Yes, of course they are. But many of the residences, businesses, and roads damaged were not on any waterfront. When you look at the scale of devastation in Vermont, you cannot possibly conclude that this was within the normal risk parameters that even intelligent, prudent, risk-averse people would have been led to expect.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

Newpylong said:


> You've never owned a house have you? Unless you are required to have flood insurance, most people don't. Then something like this happens and people aren't covered. Many of the people effected by this were not exactly next to rivers so how is this "waterfront property"?
> 
> Regular home owner's insurance will NOT necessarily cover flood damage. If they do, it won't be 100%. It covers leaks, water getting into the basement from storms, pip bursts, etc, but not this.
> 
> This didn't level entire communities? Check out the videos of Wilmington, VT... the downtown area is a complete loss. What's the difference between no building and one that is not habitable?



Flood insurance is a choice, and good one considered the only provider out there provides a nice subsidized rate. Why is this, cause its govt. 

And the difference is a dumpster rental and some new drywall and those houses are habitable again. Just a little different.


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## Philpug (Aug 31, 2011)

Guys, you are having a battle of intelligence with an un armed person. Move on. Next he is going to complain that the starving people in Africa should move to where the food is.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

All Im saying is that life isnt fair. I know I will be buying flood insurance, as Ive lived at the top of a hill and gotten flooded out before. Live and learn. Its cheap anyways. 

What happened to personal responsibility? This will not be that big a deal in a month or two.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

oakapple said:


> Yes, of course they are. But many of the residences, businesses, and roads damaged were not on any waterfront. When you look at the scale of devastation in Vermont, you cannot possibly conclude that this was within the normal risk parameters that even intelligent, prudent, risk-averse people would have been led to expect.



Every peice of damage Ive seen is the result of culverts, streams, and riverbeds overflowing. 

KBL has the roaring brook running right under it. Great idea. 

Rt. 4? You cannot be serious? Theres a river running along the whole thing practically to woodstock. 

Rt. 7 has a bridge over water washed out. 

River Road, enough said. 

Anyone who buys a house and expects nothing to happen to it is naive. Big trees fall down, hopefully not on your place, but it happens. Happened to my cabin in Victor last year as well. I took out the chainsaw and cut her up and went on living my life.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> This will not be that big a deal in a month or two.



You're entitled to your opinion on flood insurance etc, but the only sense that this will not be a big deal in a month or two is that it won't be on the news.  There are towns in NY, VT, NJ, VA, Carolinas, that won't be the same for YEARS.


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## Puck it (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider may want to join in on some classes!!!


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## bobbutts (Aug 31, 2011)

As someone who follows tropical forecasting pretty closely, I will tell you confidently that it's currently impossible to pinpoint the strength and accuracy of a storm coming up the east coast with enough lead time to avoid issues like this.
I don't envy the forecaster who has 100's of millions of dollars in preparation riding on his forecast or the emergency manager who has to make potentially life and death decisions based on that.
People who claimed the storm would be minimal (lacking any sound meteorology to back that up), or came in after the fact and criticized forecasts because conditions were mild in their backyards seem to fall into an ever increasing delusional group that believes they are more capable than everyone else, despite being completely lacking in knowledge and experience in whatever subject they're babbling about.


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## Philpug (Aug 31, 2011)

Puck it said:


> AdironRider may want to join in on some classes!!!



Yep, it takes a very special type of person who can "put the ass in class"


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## Glenn (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> My friend Renee who lives in Wilmington, VT said numerous downtown business owners are looking to move on.  It's just not worth it to rebuild their businesses.  They didn't make a lot of money in the first place, so they plan on taking their insurance money and finding something else to do.  I don't think that town will be the same as before the storm 5 years from now.  I hope I'm wrong.





That will be tough for the area if it happens. After each economic downturn, the Valley recovers, but not quite to the level it was previously. Having more businesses close could really hurt things. I hope some owners choose to rebuild. But you can understand if they choose not too.


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## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Flood insurance is a choice, and good one considered the only provider out there provides a nice subsidized rate. Why is this, cause its govt.
> 
> And the difference is a dumpster rental and some new drywall and those houses are habitable again. Just a little different.



The result of this storm may be either (or both):  lenders requiring blanket flood insurance, or people just purchasing it as a precaution even if there is minimal chance of flooding (a "low" risk zone).

Drywall and a dumpster? Since when is a total loss rectified by a trip to home depot? When the roads are re-opened I suggest going for a road trip to the 802 to take a look at what I am taking about.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> You're entitled to your opinion on flood insurance etc, but the only sense that this will not be a big deal in a month or two is that it won't be on the news.  There are towns in NY, VT, NJ, VA, Carolinas, that won't be the same for YEARS.




People said this after each ice storm. Hurricane Andrew, Bob, etc. The sky did not fall. 

What happened, oh yeah life was the same a few months later. Will the same trees all be standing, no, but life moves on. Bridges will be rebuilt, and by next spring once the winter meltoff occurs, noone will know the difference between a rivers old and new course. My hometown of Exeter has flooded 5 times in the last 15 years. Outside of a nice quick uptick for the local contractors accounting books, there is no evidence left of any of them. Two tornados have touched down, outside of the new lookout tower at Stratham Hill Park, you would never know. The Walgreens that lost its roof in the other was open for business the next week. 

To think that this is going to be the economic lynchpin for Vermont is laughable though. The leaves will turn, snow will fall, and the tourists will return. If Killington opens in October, noone will be discussing this, outside of they cant get a beer at the Superstar Pub. 

My point, is that people are calling this a tragedy, when in reality its a big inconveinience. 

Still doesnt discredit the people who lost their lives. That is sad and inexcusable.


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## drjeff (Aug 31, 2011)

bobbutts said:


> As someone who follows tropical forecasting pretty closely, I will tell you confidently that it's currently impossible to pinpoint the strength and accuracy of a storm coming up the east coast with enough lead time to avoid issues like this.
> I don't envy the forecaster who has 100's of millions of dollars in preparation riding on his forecast or the emergency manager who has to make potentially life and death decisions based on that.
> People who claimed the storm would be minimal (lacking any sound meteorology to back that up), or came in after the fact and criticized forecasts because conditions were mild in their backyards seem to fall into an ever increasing delusional group that believes they are more capable than everyone else, despite being completely lacking in knowledge and experience in whatever subject they're babbling about.



Very true words.  And what is even crazier to think is the from a track forcast standpoint, the meterologists at the National Hurricane Center nailed this one!  In a sense the intensity difference isn't all that unlike what happens in a Nor'easter where ahead of time, you can get the track fairly well, but what you can't really predict all that well is exactly where those heavier bands will set up that in a Nor'easter can be the difference between a 10-12" snowfall and an 18-20" snowfall


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## Geoff (Aug 31, 2011)

Newpylong said:


> The result of this storm may be either (or both):  lenders requiring blanket flood insurance, or people just purchasing it as a precaution even if there is minimal chance of flooding (a "low" risk zone).
> 
> Drywall and a dumpster? Since when is a total loss rectified by a trip to home depot? When the roads are re-opened I suggest going for a road trip to the 802 to take a look at what I am taking about.



I had the hot water feed to my washing machine burst and run for 2 weeks in my summer place.   It was isolated to less than half the house and it was a $10,000 insurance claim.    The mold remediation people had to come in in HazMat suits.   The floor & subfloor had to be replaced.   The walls and insulation had to be ripped out and replaced.   

If you have 4 feet of water in the living area of your house, it's a massive project.   The kitchen is gone.  The heat is gone.  Hot water heater is gone.   You replace all the appliances.   The electrical is gone and you have to mostly rewire.   Anything plywood failed so you probably have to re-sheath the sides of the house.  If you have flood insurance, it's a $50,000+ bill for a small house and it will often be cheaper to knock it down and start over.   If you're not carrying flood insurance, you likely mail the keys to the bank.


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## skiadikt (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> People said this after each ice storm. Hurricane Andrew, Bob, etc. The sky did not fall.
> 
> What happened, oh yeah life was the same a few months later. Will the same trees all be standing, no, but life moves on. Bridges will be rebuilt, and by next spring once the winter meltoff occurs, noone will know the difference between a rivers old and new course. My hometown of Exeter has flooded 5 times in the last 15 years. Outside of a nice quick uptick for the local contractors accounting books, there is no evidence left of any of them. Two tornados have touched down, outside of the new lookout tower at Stratham Hill Park, you would never know. The Walgreens that lost its roof in the other was open for business the next week.
> 
> ...



feel free to ignore the "hype" when the next storm comes and best of luck to you ...


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

Fine by me, I know when push comes to shove, all Ive got is myself anyways. More people need to live this way. 

And look at the economic impact thread, reports are already coming out that they are making massive headway fixing things up. River Road pretty much just needs new blacktop.


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## Philpug (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> To think that this is going to be the economic lynchpin for Vermont is laughable though. The leaves will turn, snow will fall, and the tourists will return. If Killington opens in October, noone will be discussing this, outside of they cant get a beer at the Superstar Pub.
> 
> My point, is that people are calling this a tragedy, when in reality its a big inconveinience.



I really want to sniff the bait and swim a way but I am sometimes attracted to sunny objects and have to bite. Of course Vermont will not post a "Gone out of business" sign and of course the leaves will turn as they have since the dawn of time but if there are no tourists to see the leaves change and people cannot get their business's back up and running, bills will not be able to be paid. You miss your mortgage for 4 months and see what the bank says. These people will not be able to pay their bills.

This is more than just an "inconvenience", seriously, how removed from reality are you?


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

So now I have to feel bad for their poor financial planning? Cry me a river. 

This isnt the first natural disaster to hit the Northeast. Little kids werent in the streets starving.


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## Black Phantom (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> So now I have to feel bad for their poor financial planning? Cry me a river.
> 
> This isnt the first natural disaster to hit the Northeast. Little kids werent in the streets starving.



wow


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## farlep99 (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> So now I have to feel bad for their poor financial planning? Cry me a river.
> 
> This isnt the first natural disaster to hit the Northeast. Little kids werent in the streets starving.



Wow is right.  Dude, way out of line.  Poor financial planning?  I'm sure when your house (or business) gets wiped out, you have a huge cash reserve to live off of along with that 100% insurance coverage.  Good luck.  Having your home or business wiped out has absolutely nothing to do with financial planning.  No one can plan for a once in a generation natural disaster.  

I'm pissed at myself for even dignifying any of this with a response.  I feel your pain Philpug


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

So Im supposed to be the first one to mention an emergency fund to you people. Ive got 6 months expenses socked away, so yes, if this did happen to me, Id be just fine. Its called responsibility. 
Theres a lot of doom and gloom forecasting in this thread. Already people have reported that recovery is happening way faster than anyone (well I guess except me) expected. To say people have lost everything at this point is far fetched. 

As I mentioned before, this isnt the first natural disaster to hit NE. The ice storm damage was far more widespread, and oh yeah that happened in the dead of winter, where not having shelter is a little more of a problem, and people got by. 

Were only a couple days out of this inconvienience, lets not assume every business in VT is going to close up shop.


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## Philpug (Aug 31, 2011)

farlep99 said:


> I'm pissed at myself for even dignifying any of this with a response.  I feel your pain Philpug



Right?!? I hope for this guys sake, he is trying to troll here, because if he REALLY feels this way and this is the way he views other people...I almost feel as bad for his social circle (and family) as I do for the people who are suffering from this storm. Ignorance know no bounds.


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## Nick (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> So now I have to feel bad for their poor financial planning? Cry me a river.
> 
> This isnt the first natural disaster to hit the Northeast. Little kids werent in the streets starving.



Obviously we are talking about VT here, not southern New England, where I agree it was more of an inconvenience. 

It's not about winning. Was Katrina worse? Yes. But this is also horrible and definitely will have long term impacts and financial repercussions to the state. :smash:


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 31, 2011)

Just ignore the troll dammit - opinions are like rear ends he has one  BFD


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

Philpug said:


> Right?!? I hope for this guys sake, he is trying to troll here, because if he REALLY feels this way and this is the way he views other people...I almost feel as bad for his social circle (and family) as I do for the people who are suffering from this storm. Ignorance know no bounds.



You dont know me, or my family. So kindly STFU before you bring them into the equasion. I have yet to make a personal attack on anyone here, especially about their family and friends. 

All Im saying is that people are making this out to be the end of Vermont. Were two-three days after the fact here, and positive reports are already flowing out from locals. 

I think before everyone lays over and crys uncle and waits for a bailout, lessons should be learned on personal responsibility. As Ive outlined previously, Ive gone through at least seven natural disasters in my hometown. Each time we stood up strong due to being prepared both physically and financially. I think its a little early to assume nothing will ever be the same.


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## Philpug (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> You dont know me, or my family. So kindly STFU before you bring them into the equasion. I have yet to make a personal attack on anyone here, especially about their family and friends.



I am not attacking them at all, I am empathizing with them, empathy is something that you might want to consider for the people that had their lives turned upside down. As you say, it is all about personal responsibility. :-?


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## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> As I mentioned before, this isnt the first natural disaster to hit NE. The ice storm damage was far more widespread, and oh yeah that happened in the dead of winter, where not having shelter is a little more of a problem, and people got by.
> 
> Were only a couple days out of this inconvienience, lets not assume every business in VT is going to close up shop.




That's a load of crap.  I was in college in Burlington, VT during the ice storm.  Pretty much the epicenter of where it all went down.  

Some remote areas lost power for weeks, but they didn't have their homes and businesses washed down a river.

The scale of damage from the ice storm wasn't 5% of what VT is seeing right now.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> I think before everyone lays over and crys uncle and waits for a bailout, lessons should be learned on personal responsibility.


It's sad but also funny that this clown is lecturing on personal responsibility, because this is precisely what the people of Vermont are exhibiting, probably to an extent he is incapable of imagining.

But that does not mean that they haven't just suffered a once-per-century disaster. That they are responding to it the way they should does not minimize what has occurred.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

Whatever dude, Ive outlined my points with evidence. River Road is already fixed and just needs pavement. OH THE HORROR. It probably still means the end of the world was near and you couldnt do anything about it cause you might get a ding from a rock in your paint.

Again, this happened two days ago. Lets stop with the whole everyones business is no longer existant crap at this point.


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## oakapple (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Whatever dude, Ive outlined my points with evidence. River Road is already fixed and just needs pavement.


No you haven't. Obviously, in any disaster things are gonna get fixed in some kind of sequence. You would figure that in the first couple of days, _something_ would be done. That would be true whether it were Katrina or a random one-car accident. All you have shown is that they _didn't_ do nothing.



> Lets stop with the whole everyones business is no longer existant crap at this point.


Strawman. No one said that.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Whatever dude, Ive outlined my points with evidence. River Road is already fixed and just needs pavement. OH THE HORROR. It probably still means the end of the world was near and you couldnt do anything about it cause you might get a ding from a rock in your paint.
> 
> Again, this happened two days ago. Lets stop with the whole everyones business is no longer existant crap at this point.



No one said that.  

You said that things will be pretty much back to normal in a month or two.  That's simply not true.  Some communities will take at least a year, possibly several, to return to what they were prior to this.  It's been the worst natural disaster in the history of VT, the Catskills region of NY and Western NJ.  That's not even accounting all of the ocean front communities further south that got hammered.

4th largest natural disaster in terms of property damage in US history.  And you say it's no big deal?  

Empathy my man.  It's a good character quality to have. 

I suppose you think Joplin is back to normal already.


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## AdironRider (Aug 31, 2011)

Fair enough, Ive gone a bit to far, my bad. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJPnG9ZMzc

I guess you cant hotlink vids here, but I thought this was a cool way to make the best of things.


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## hrstrat57 (Aug 31, 2011)

Just saw video of the o quechee river raging on tv....normally no more than a stream in spots. 

Pretty scary stuff.

I love VT esp the Quechee / Woodstock area.

Best wishes to all of my Green Mtn friends impacted by Irene.

I just got my power back on but we dodged a big bullet here. Sorry VT was not so fortunate.....


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## bigbob (Aug 31, 2011)

I live about 10 miles north of Exeter in Lee, NH and went through all the floods he mentioned. It almost got to be routine. From what I have seen on the Internet of the damage in Vt was far worse than what we went through. I think the point he is trying to make is the infrastructure will get rebuilt/repaired over time, people will go on with their lives despite what mother nature has thrown at them. I would call this event a 500 year flood, hopefully it will not repeat in the future. I do reside along a river, but my house is far enough away and uphill so I have not been flooded out, so I cannot imagine loosing everything and not being insured for it.I think the people in our area pulled together and helped each other out and it appears this is also happening in Vt. A town official told me he was told by FEMA we were  much more independent than people in other parts of the country were and made their job a lot easier.


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## HowieT2 (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> Whatever dude, Ive outlined my points with evidence. River Road is already fixed and just needs pavement. OH THE HORROR. It probably still means the end of the world was near and you couldnt do anything about it cause you might get a ding from a rock in your paint.
> 
> Again, this happened two days ago. Lets stop with the whole everyones business is no longer existant crap at this point.



Unfortunately, not only are your opinions offensive, but your facts are demonstrably wrong.  First, their were millions, not thousands, of people without power many of whom still don't have. That may not be a big deal to you but it is to many of them.  I'm up in Warren and those who aren't cleaning up are ferrying supplies like water, ice, propane, diapers down to Granville, Stockbridge and Rochester.  This is 3 days later.
Flood insurance will not cover most of the losses here.  Putting aside the homes and businesses directly damaged by the water, there are countless people who aren't working because their employers are out of business.  And what about the farms and suppliers to all those closed restaurants?you think they re getting big fat checks from an insurance company.  How about the killington business owners if they can't open for ski season?
The damage to infrastructure is massive and will take months to repair.  Have you seen what's left of route 4 in mendon?  Have you seen windham?  Businesses that rely on that infrastructure will close and the lives of the owners and employees will be devastated.  And the costs of repairing that damage will be borne by all of us.
Bottom line is the best way to measure the effects of storm is in dollar terms.  There is no question that this will be one of the top ten costliest disasters in the history of our country.  For anyone to say this is no big deal, is unconscionable and flat out wrong.


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## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2011)

Geoff said:


> I had the hot water feed to my washing machine burst and run for 2 weeks in my summer place.   It was isolated to less than half the house and it was a $10,000 insurance claim.    The mold remediation people had to come in in HazMat suits.   The floor & subfloor had to be replaced.   The walls and insulation had to be ripped out and replaced.
> 
> If you have 4 feet of water in the living area of your house, it's a massive project.   The kitchen is gone.  The heat is gone.  Hot water heater is gone.   You replace all the appliances.   The electrical is gone and you have to mostly rewire.   Anything plywood failed so you probably have to re-sheath the sides of the house.  If you have flood insurance, it's a $50,000+ bill for a small house and it will often be cheaper to knock it down and start over.   If you're not carrying flood insurance, you likely mail the keys to the bank.




I hear ya! and agree...


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## Newpylong (Aug 31, 2011)

AdironRider said:


> So now I have to feel bad for their poor financial planning? Cry me a river.
> 
> This isnt the first natural disaster to hit the Northeast. Little kids werent in the streets starving.




Until now I was trying to be polite. You are f-ed up and have lost my respect on this forum.


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## riverc0il (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> disagree


Nothing to disagree with DHS. The storm was not over hyped at all, I agree. What I meant was that if the flooding damage had not occurred, it would have been over hyped. It seemed like it was up until the flooding started to happen which beared out the hype pretty well. I vehemently disagreed with the too much hype issue on NYSkiBlog forums.


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## riverc0il (Aug 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> My friend Renee who lives in Wilmington, VT said numerous downtown business owners are looking to move on.  It's just not worth it to rebuild their businesses.  They didn't make a lot of money in the first place, so they plan on taking their insurance money and finding something else to do.  I don't think that town will be the same as before the storm 5 years from now.  I hope I'm wrong.


This is what I am wondering... what do the people do? How many people were close to retirement and just cash out? How many people move away? What will downtowns that got flooded out look like? Will VT create incentives to rebuild? Is this going to break the back of many VT towns in a long term perspective? What is the long term effect on communities?


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## Philpug (Aug 31, 2011)

Newpylong said:


> Until now I was trying to be polite. You are f-ed up and have lost my respect on this forum.



:beer:


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## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> This is what I am wondering... what do the people do? How many people were close to retirement and just cash out? How many people move away? What will downtowns that got flooded out look like? Will VT create incentives to rebuild? Is this going to break the back of many VT towns in a long term perspective? What is the long term effect on communities?



Ultimately, I think it depends on how much equity (if any) these small businesses have in the real estate.  From my many years living in Vermont, the small business owning friends I have there and the people I do business with there today, it is quite obvious to me that the value of the actual businesses themselves are worth very little. I'm specifically referring to those types of businesses I have experience with or know people who own them;  restaurants and retail.  

I've been privy to many restaurant sale transactions in Stowe, the most high brow ski town of them all in Vermont.  The businesses sell for basically what the equipment and inventory are worth.  I know of plenty of restaurants in that town that did $1M in gross annual sales and the business sold for only 100K.  Surely not enough to even dream about retiring on.

I would never dream of trying to own a business in a ski town in VT unless I was in it for the real estate as well.  So, the folks in Wilmington who are thinking of bailing either have a lot of equity in the real estate of their businesses and hope the insurance check will allow them to rebuild, sell and move on; or they have a small or zero equity interest in the real estate and are saying, "Screw it, my business is worth practically nothing without the real estate, the loss of income and time it will take to rebuild is just too much, it will probably be easier to move back to flatlands and join the rat race."


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## millerm277 (Sep 1, 2011)

@Adironrider - This is 3 minutes of driving on Rt 4 in Mendon.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150265586031582

There is a hell of a lot more damage than most people realize.


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## twinplanx (Sep 1, 2011)

Philpug said:


> :beer:



+1


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## RENO (Sep 1, 2011)

millerm277 said:


> @Adironrider - This is 3 minutes of driving on Rt 4 in Mendon.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150265586031582
> 
> There is a hell of a lot more damage than most people realize.



WOW! That's incredible how much damage was done there!


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## Highway Star (Sep 2, 2011)

Rt.4 Mendon (between Killington and Rutland) is probably the worst and most signifigant washout. From what I understand there are 3 sections washed out to one lane or less, for couple hundred feet or more, to a 15 ft depth or more. This is certainly going to be a problem to repair. There is just not enough fill available on site, they are going to be trucking in dirt for some time.


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## SkiDork (Sep 2, 2011)

Agreed.  There's a video of someone driving through all 3 of those on youtube (can't access from work or I'd post it here).  Incredible footage especially when you look to the left and see the cliff down about 15 or 20 feet


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## RENO (Sep 2, 2011)

The facebook video that millerm277 posted shows this, but you need to have a Facebook ID to view it...


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## Nick (Sep 2, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> *4th largest* natural disaster in terms of property damage in US history.



Holy crap, I didn't know that!


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## RENO (Sep 2, 2011)




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## steamboat1 (Sep 2, 2011)

WOW!!! That's the route I have to take to get to Pico/Killington being I'm on the west side of the Greens. Hope they get it usable before winter.


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## bvibert (Sep 2, 2011)

steamboat1 said:


> WOW!!! That's the route I have to take to get to Pico/Killington being I'm on the west side of the Greens. Hope they get it usable before winter.



It's gonna take a while to fill in all those holes...  I doubt the road is 100% by winter, but I'm sure they'll make it passable.


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## Puck it (Sep 2, 2011)

bvibert said:


> It's gonna take a while to fill in all those holes... I doubt the road is 100% by winter, but I'm sure they'll make it passable.


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## Black Phantom (Sep 2, 2011)

bvibert said:


> It's gonna take a while to fill in all those holes...  I doubt the road is 100% by winter, but I'm sure they'll make it passable.



You sure about that?


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## UVSHTSTRM (Sep 2, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> You sure about that?



Not sure about, which of his points?


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## k123 (Sep 2, 2011)

watch this video from Phoenicia, right near Belleayre: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=weather&id=8326848 :sad:


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## Bubbartzky (Sep 7, 2011)

I just commented over on KillingtonZone.com how it seems people have been on their best behavior since the storm.  Some of the comments in this thread suggest that people took their arguing over here. ;-)

Seriously, as one who has been in Killington since the storm, I can tell you that the roads are quickly coming back and assure you that things will be relatively normal by ski season.  Route 4 from the east, coming from I-89 is open although the authorities are still taking steps to limit traffic flow.  I'm told that Route 4 from the west through Mendon is seeing tremendous progress although no timetable for reopening is yet being given.  Route 100 from the south from Ludlow is close to reopening.  A real problem is getting in from the north with damage to both Route 100 and Route 107 but 100 is coming along and 107 is, from what I understand, now getting a lot of attention.  

Everyone in Vermont, from the Governor on down to local officials, knows how important road access is to the economy and have been making every effort to get things open and moving.  The Maine National Guard as well as the Maine DOT is here with their equipment.  It'll take some time but I expect reasonable normalcy (not to be interpreted as complete rebuild) by October 1.  Plan on being here for the Brewfest!

I can't speak for the resort (Chris posts here and can do that just fine) but from what I can see, they're already making repairs to the Ramshead parking lot, have large piles of fill in the upper Snowshed lot ready for use in that lot as well as other washouts from KBL down to Ramshead, and have been working to clean up the Skye Ship base lodge area.  They continue to stress that the lift infrastructure was undamaged and KBL will be operational after cleaning up the Superstar Pub mess and making repairs to the east end of the Mahogany Ridge section of the building.  I would guess, and maybe Chris can comment on this, that some of the planned but as yet uncompleted infrastructure improvements such as pipe replacement may get delayed as priorities shift toward storm repairs, but other than that I think this storm really won't impact winter operations in any way.


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## Nick (Sep 7, 2011)

That's good to hear Bubba, hope things return to normal quickly for VT! C'mon Snow!


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## Black Phantom (Sep 7, 2011)

Nick said:


> That's good to hear Bubba, hope things return to normal quickly for VT! C'mon Snow!



For the record and to further dispel rumors- Killington Base Lodge is not gone. 

The title of this thread should be changed ASAP. 

Someone just got blasted for allegedly spreading a rumor. This is far beyond that.

TY


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## Bubbartzky (Sep 7, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> For the record and to further dispel rumors- Killington Base Lodge is not gone.
> 
> The title of this thread should be changed ASAP.
> 
> ...



That's a good idea.  Maybe it should be changed to Killington Damage Reports?


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## Nick (Sep 7, 2011)

Bubbartzky said:


> That's a good idea.  Maybe it should be changed to Killington Damage Reports?



Ill change it later that is a good suggestion

Sent with Tapatalk


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## bvibert (Sep 7, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> For the record and to further dispel rumors- Killington Base Lodge is not gone.
> 
> The title of this thread should be changed ASAP.
> 
> ...





Bubbartzky said:


> That's a good idea.  Maybe it should be changed to Killington Damage Reports?



Done


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## Bubbartzky (Sep 7, 2011)

I finally downloaded a bunch of pics I took in Killington starting on Sunday afternoon after the storm began to subside through Tuesday early afternoon as repairs were underway.  Many are similar to what you may have seen before from others but there may be a few that show things from a different angle or give you a different perspective.

http://news.webshots.com/album/580839362qWUxiw


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## dangah (Sep 8, 2011)

Bubbartzky said:


> I just commented over on KillingtonZone.com how it seems people have been on their best behavior since the storm.  Some of the comments in this thread suggest that people took their arguing over here. ;-)
> 
> Seriously, as one who has been in Killington since the storm, I can tell you that the roads are quickly coming back and assure you that things will be relatively normal by ski season.  Route 4 from the east, coming from I-89 is open although the authorities are still taking steps to limit traffic flow.  I'm told that Route 4 from the west through Mendon is seeing tremendous progress although no timetable for reopening is yet being given.  Route 100 from the south from Ludlow is close to reopening.  A real problem is getting in from the north with damage to both Route 100 and Route 107 but 100 is coming along and 107 is, from what I understand, now getting a lot of attention.
> 
> ...



Bubbartzky covered it pretty well here.  We are working hard to get everything cleaned up and ready to go for the winter season and will open on schedule - we still plan to be one of the first open in the East! We also plan to throw a great Brewfest on October 1!

For the last few days, I've been trying not bother the operations folks as they are working fast and furious. However, we are working to get an update on T.S. Irene repairs and summer improvements, with photos, out shortly. What I can tell you right now is, resort repairs are coming along well and from what I have seen with my own eyes, the road repair on Route 4 in Mendon is moving right along.

Chris Danforth
Marketing Manager
Killington Resort


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## Black Phantom (Sep 8, 2011)

Nick said:


> Ill change it later that is a good suggestion
> 
> Sent with Tapatalk



You may also want to update your newsletter with this information quickly. The lodge is not gone.


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## dangah (Sep 8, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> You may also want to update your newsletter with this information quickly. The lodge is not gone.




You mean this collapsed lodge? :roll: You can see Superstar Pub ain't looking so good but the vast majority of the lodge is just fine.






I also posted that clarification earlier in this thread.

-Chris


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## frapcap (Sep 8, 2011)

Hopefully not a repost- Heres a collection of high resolution photos of the area affected.
http://www.mansfieldheliflight.com/flood/


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## Black Phantom (Sep 8, 2011)

dangah said:


> You mean this collapsed lodge? :roll: You can see Superstar Pub ain't looking so good but the vast majority of the lodge is just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I realize that. I was not referring to you or your post. Keep up the good work.

I am speaking directly to Nick and his beloved AlpineZone Newletter I received yesterday that refers specifically to "the loss of the Killington Base Lodge".


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## Nick (Sep 8, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> I am speaking directly to Nick and his beloved AlpineZone Newletter I received yesterday that refers specifically to "the loss of the Killington Base Lodge".



My mistake....  I knew it was corrected in here by Chris but when I typed up the newsletter I had just pulled in the thread and the comments in fairly short order. 

When I send out the next newsletter I will make the correction that it was the Superstar Pub.


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## WJenness (Sep 8, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> there is a rumor that the skye peak express motor was damaged by a lightning strike.  Chris can you confirm/deny/ignore this?





Bubbartzky said:


> Chris, any thought as to what you're going to do with the area once the pub wreckage is removed?  There used to be a deck there and a lot of us would say the deck was more beneficial to you than the pub.  This could be a golden opportunity to bring back a major item that is lacking there, especially in the spring.  Think of how many people would love to sit out on the deck in the spring, watching bumpers on Superstar and buying beverages and grilled food while a band is playing out there.  Kaching!!!



These questions probably belong better in the Killington Challenge thread... Just a heads up.

-w


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## Nick (Sep 8, 2011)

WJenness said:


> These questions probably belong better in the Killington Challenge thread... Just a heads up.
> 
> -w



Yup. I'm moving them over!


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## Bubbartzky (Sep 8, 2011)

Nick said:


> Yup. I'm moving them over!



As long as you realize that the pub question should not take precedence over the Killington Zone question.:wink:


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## Black Phantom (Sep 8, 2011)

Nick said:


> My mistake....  I knew it was corrected in here by Chris but when I typed up the newsletter I had just pulled in the thread and the comments in fairly short order.
> 
> When I send out the next newsletter I will make the correction that it was the Superstar Pub.



No, actually I brought it to the attention of the board. Your friendly neighborhood Black Phantom.


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## Nick (Sep 8, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> No, actually I brought it to the attention of the board. Your friendly neighborhood Black Phantom.



Ok. I can't seem to get my shit together today. Started when I forgot my ID badge for work.


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## dangah (Sep 9, 2011)

Killington's president, Chris Nyberg, announced this morning that he has purchased two umbrella bars, that will be installed on a new deck, to replace the Superstar Pub. The bars will have a capacity of up to 300 people. Here is an installation at Copper Mountain.






More examples can be found on this site: http://www.umbrellabarsusa.com


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## mondeo (Sep 9, 2011)

dangah said:


> Killington's president, Chris Nyberg, announced this morning that he has purchased two umbrella bars, that will be installed on a new deck, to replace the Superstar Pub. The bars will have a capacity of up to 300 people. Here is an installation at Copper Mountain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You see, some good can come out of this disaster. This should be a good improvement over the Superstar Pub ion any case, tropical storm or no tropical storm.


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## Nick (Sep 9, 2011)

They should put a hot tub out there! :lol:


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## Puck it (Sep 9, 2011)

mondeo said:


> You see, some good can come out of this disaster. This should be a good improvement over the Superstar Pub ion any case, tropical storm or no tropical storm.


 
Hopefully those umbrellas go up and down.


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## Black Phantom (Sep 9, 2011)

Nick said:


> They should put a hot tub out there! :lol:



Go to the Grand if you want a hot tub. This is a lodge for skiers and a deck to drink on at the end of the day.


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## Geoff (Sep 9, 2011)

The old Superstar deck worked really well for spring skiing.   I expect most Killington spring skiing regulars will view this as an improvement over a wing of the lodge that was only open on midseason peak weekends.   I'll certainly spend some money at an outdoor bar in May.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 9, 2011)

Will the new deck have a view of the stream?


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## Highway Star (Sep 9, 2011)

Awesome......I like it!!!!


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## mister moose (Sep 9, 2011)

This should be a great occasion to add a new beer to the draft lineup at KBL.  

Maybe





or 






It's time to supplement Bud and Long Trail!


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## bigbob (Sep 9, 2011)

Pretty much gone now


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## Black Phantom (Oct 7, 2011)

Nick said:


> My mistake....  I knew it was corrected in here by Chris but when I typed up the newsletter I had just pulled in the thread and the comments in fairly short order.
> 
> When I send out the next newsletter I will make the correction that it was the Superstar Pub.



Any word on that correction?


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## Nick (Oct 7, 2011)

Argh! Damnit, slipped my mind


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## Black Phantom (Oct 7, 2011)

Nick said:


> Argh! Damnit, slipped my mind



The Killington community needs all the support it can get.


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