# Bad Moves on the Lift



## billski (Jul 21, 2008)

Talking about singles and gripes leads me to this.

Here are a few bad moves that have happened to me on the lift.

1. Hit in the head with an unannounced bar-down.
2. Hit in the knee with an unannounced bar-down
3. Hit in the face with an errant pole.
4. At unload time, ski down on top of mine.  All rise.  

Now that I think about it, maybe they did it to me on purpose.  Am I that ugly?


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## frozencorn (Jul 21, 2008)

1. Hit in the head with an unannounced bar-down.

There ought to be a requisite class for this.


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## 2knees (Jul 21, 2008)

uncontrollable gas in the gondi.


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## Moe Ghoul (Jul 21, 2008)

Folks that drop back just before getting on the lift and cause seats to be empty after being matched up into a 4some or 6pk. And the folks that act annoyed when there's a coupla empty seats and you fly thru the singles line and hop on the chair with them. I think they're the same people, lol.


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## Johnskiismore (Jul 21, 2008)

Un-announced bar downs drive me nuts!!  I get hit in the head so many times!  Can people just wait like two seconds (literally) until you're seated properly, and then announce they're pulling the bar down.  Seriously, sometimes I am still sitting down and the bar is coming down on my head.  We're loading onto a chairlft, we have plenty of time to sit, pull the bar the bar down and be safe.


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## roark (Jul 21, 2008)

2knees said:


> uncontrollable gas in the gondi.


Huh, outing yourself here aren't you?


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## Dr Skimeister (Jul 21, 2008)

I loathe the person that just as the lift is approaching the terminus declares, "You better watch out, I'm not too good at getting off these things." Inevitably, it's a lift that only serves "More Difficult" and "Most Difficult" trails.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jul 21, 2008)

I love when a inexpeienced skier grabs on to you as they are falling getting off.


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## riverc0il (Jul 21, 2008)

billski said:


> 1. Hit in the head with an unannounced bar-down.


Here is a big ole "FU" to all the folks that have done this to me over the years. You don't know who you are, quite frankly because you are an ass hat that didn't even say you were sorry after doing it.

Glad I finally got that one off my chest.


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## riverc0il (Jul 21, 2008)

How about when you are a single, join up with two other skiers on a triple, and then when it is time to load, they hang out behind so they can double up instead of maxing capacity. Not that I don't mind the extra chair room but not maxing capacity drives me up the wall! Especially when I see it happen in front of me while I am waiting. 

Oh man, this thread is getting me all wound up!!!

How about the dude that spread eagles his skis on a fully loaded chair. Or the boarder that uses your skis as a board rest. Gimme a break! My gear is heavy enough as it is. I don't need your extra weight. Reposition your gear and keep your skis or boards off my skis.


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## Moe Ghoul (Jul 21, 2008)

People that have pole issues when getting off.
No chair leadership when it's time to lift the bar up.


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## Johnskiismore (Jul 21, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Or the boarder that uses your skis as a board rest. Gimme a break! My gear is heavy enough as it is. I don't need your extra weight. Reposition your gear and keep your skis or boards off my skis.



Yes, I hate this too!  If you ask the rider or skier to move off, it's like you asked for the world.  Keep your equipment in line with your body while sitting on the lift.

This drives me nuts as well, you're ready to load onto the lift, let's say a quad, and there are three people blocking the way because they're waiting for their other friend.  Even after asking to go through (politely), you get the attitude.  This happened to us twice last year, no line, empty chairs going up the mountain, people blocking the entrance oblivious to anyone else who might want to board the lift.  Move the F over, wait for your buddy, then load.:uzi:


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## hardline (Jul 21, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> How about when you are a single, join up with two other skiers on a triple, and then when it is time to load, they hang out behind so they can double up instead of maxing capacity. Not that I don't mind the extra chair room but not maxing capacity drives me up the wall! Especially when I see it happen in front of me while I am waiting.
> 
> Oh man, this thread is getting me all wound up!!!
> 
> How about the dude that spread eagles his skis on a fully loaded chair. Or the boarder that uses your skis as a board rest. Gimme a break! My gear is heavy enough as it is. I don't need your extra weight. Reposition your gear and keep your skis or boards off my skis.



just quietly bend and start to unbuckle his binding. i guarantee that he/she will never do it again. thats comming from a boarder.

i thought this was going to be a thread about pick up line that haven't worked in the lift line. that would be fun. i have got a bunch.


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## Beetlenut (Jul 21, 2008)

I have one from way back when the Northeast Passage lift ran at Killington. First run of the morning a friend and I were on the NEP lift approaching the mid station, which use to be open at that time, just after an attitude adjustment. I had the type of grips on my Poles that I could hang them off the bar. As we were approaching the mid station, the lift attendant noticed my poles hanging down, and tried to open the door to tell me to lift my poles up. Well the door wouldn't open, it was stuck, and as we got closer, he started screaming and waving his arms frantically!  Well my friend and I thought this was just too funny, and started waving our arms and going into simulated convulsions right back at him. As we passed the mid station, laughing uncontrollably, we look over at the attendant who is just staring at us and shaking his head. This made us laugh even harder! After all the laughter died down, the small appliance bulb when off in my head, and I looked down at the two feet of aluminum tube extending from my pole grips and realized what had just happened. After I stopped laughing, I told my friend. After we stopped laughing again, we got off the lift and told our friends behind us. After they stopped laughing at me, I grabbed two of those orange and black sticks they use to mark off trails and objects, and skied down and rented some poles for the day. To this day, the mere mention of Northeast Passage around my friends, still causes laughter and ball-busting at my expense!


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## riverc0il (Jul 21, 2008)

Empty chairs going up because people can't get it together in the coral. This is often partially the ski area's fault for lack of systems or personnel when a particular lift is busy. But often folks are just day dreaming.

There is always the tragic occurrence of the antsy on deck skier/rider that moves into loading position before there is an open chair forcing a "sit on top of another skier" situation, the lift to stop, comedy to ensue, and a lot of wasted efficiency. I laugh. And then I cry.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 21, 2008)

Johnskiismore said:


> Un-announced bar downs drive me nuts!!  I get hit in the head so many times!  Can people just wait like two seconds (literally) until you're seated properly, and then announce they're pulling the bar down.  Seriously, sometimes I am still sitting down and the bar is coming down on my head.  We're loading onto a chairlft, we have plenty of time to sit, pull the bar the bar down and be safe.



I call people out for slamming the bar down right away and you guys should too...I usually say..."Bar Down???"...and they come up with some feeble excuse like I was afraid my kid would fall off...And alot of snowboarders hate having the bar down..I like the foot-rest..but I announce.."Coming Down"...or.."I want to rest my feet"....Bars with no foot-rests are wiggity wiggity wack..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 21, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I love when a inexpeienced skier grabs on to you as they are falling getting off.




Unless it's a hot ski/board bunny...lol:-D


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 21, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> How about when you are a single, join up with two other skiers on a triple, and then when it is time to load, they hang out behind so they can double up instead of maxing capacity. Not that I don't mind the extra chair room but not maxing capacity drives me up the wall! Especially when I see it happen in front of me while I am waiting.
> 
> Oh man, this thread is getting me all wound up!!!
> 
> How about the dude that spread eagles his skis on a fully loaded chair. Or the boarder that uses your skis as a board rest. Gimme a break! My gear is heavy enough as it is. I don't need your extra weight. Reposition your gear and keep your skis or boards off my skis.



People that bang their skis together while riding the lift..


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## Trekchick (Jul 21, 2008)

I'll agree with most, if not all, of the posts thus far.
Even GSS makes a good point about a hot inexperienced grabber(make mine a hunky guy).

I'll add........
People who swing their legs, all the while wacking your skis with their skis. 

The Throat clearer who feels a need to hock a poorly aimed looogie onto my skis.


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## hardline (Jul 21, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I call people out for slamming the bar down right away and you guys should too...I usually say..."Bar Down???"...and they come up with some feeble excuse like I was afraid my kid would fall off...And alot of snowboarders hate having the bar down..I like the foot-rest..but I announce.."Coming Down"...or.."I want to rest my feet"....Bars with no foot-rests are wiggity wiggity wack..



i never had the getting hit in the head problem untill i started wearing a helmet. hmm. i started the season with "Coming Down" but i got so tired of it from people in there mid fourties. i now have a lecture that last at least half the ride and i don't let them get a word in edgewise. after i am done with them the always ask before they put the bar down. its a mini crusade of mine. as one girl that works with me said i always get my point across.


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## Johnskiismore (Jul 21, 2008)

Lift attendant scanning tickets and passes........ and the scanner isn't working correctly!  Chair upon chair is going up the mountain you're 20th in line, and he/she will keep on trying to scan while blood pressure reaches critical mass!


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## roark (Jul 21, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Here is a big ole "FU" to all the folks that have done this to me over the years. You don't know who you are, quite frankly because you are an ass hat that didn't even say you were sorry after doing it.
> 
> Glad I finally got that one off my chest.





riverc0il said:


> How about when you are a single, join up with two other skiers on a triple, and then when it is time to load, they hang out behind so they can double up instead of maxing capacity. Not that I don't mind the extra chair room but not maxing capacity drives me up the wall! Especially when I see it happen in front of me while I am waiting.
> 
> Oh man, this thread is getting me all wound up!!!
> 
> How about the dude that spread eagles his skis on a fully loaded chair. Or the boarder that uses your skis as a board rest. Gimme a break! My gear is heavy enough as it is. I don't need your extra weight. Reposition your gear and keep your skis or boards off my skis.





riverc0il said:


> Empty chairs going up because people can't get it together in the coral. This is often partially the ski area's fault for lack of systems or personnel when a particular lift is busy. But often folks are just day dreaming.
> 
> There is always the tragic occurrence of the antsy on deck skier/rider that moves into loading position before there is an open chair forcing a "sit on top of another skier" situation, the lift to stop, comedy to ensue, and a lot of wasted efficiency. I laugh. And then I cry.



Agreed, on all points. 

After skiing at Mt Snow and Killington I've gotten pretty ruthless about maxing capacity to the point where I just hop into the patrol line and max out the chair if I see too many going up under capacity.

Probably buys me a couple extra runs a day and I've yet to experience a lifty that had a problem with it.


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## JohnGD33 (Jul 21, 2008)

Johnskiismore said:


> Lift attendant scanning tickets and passes........ and the scanner isn't working correctly!  Chair upon chair is going up the mountain you're 20th in line, and he/she will keep on trying to scan while blood pressure reaches critical mass!



I hear that. I usually just pole ahead if I am the one they are scanning and I thell them to fix the dome thing.


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## roark (Jul 21, 2008)

JohnGD33 said:


> I hear that. I usually just pole ahead if I am the one they are scanning and I thell them to fix the dome thing.


again, agreed. They can see my pass. No excuse for empty chairs.


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## ERJ-145CA (Jul 21, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I love when a inexpeienced skier grabs on to you as they are falling getting off.



That's my wife on her snowboard, she's a little afraid of the lift.  I know it's coming though so I'm ready for it.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 21, 2008)

Snowboarders that need to sit on the far left or far right of the chair,,,if they are going to drag their knuckles,...they should learn to sit in all the seats...a big pet peeve of mine...I'm sick of playing musical chairs with snowboarders..I like sitting on the end too but it doesn't always work out that way...either ride double chairs exclusively or deal..


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## 2knees (Jul 21, 2008)

roark said:


> Huh, outing yourself here aren't you?




yup.  i hate when i hot box myself.......


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## Moe Ghoul (Jul 21, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> I'll agree with most, if not all, of the posts thus far.
> Even GSS makes a good point about a hot inexperienced grabber(make mine a hunky guy).
> 
> I'll add........
> ...



Hocking loogies off the lift goes together like farting when you pee. I always take an end seat and fire them off to the side. Us Poconuts ski on any frozen product that falls from the sky.


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## hardline (Jul 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Snowboarders that need to sit on the far left or far right of the chair,,,if they are going to drag their knuckles,...they should learn to sit in all the seats...a big pet peeve of mine...I'm sick of playing musical chairs with snowboarders..I like sitting on the end too but it doesn't always work out that way...either ride double chairs exclusively or deal..



the only time this is ok is when you have a bunch of boarders. on tripple if you have 2 regular riders goofy goes on the outside. always the odd man on the end. six packs well it gets interesting.


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## Phillycore (Jul 22, 2008)

I agree with all of the above...

How about the oppositte though....
GSS and I along with some other people were in line for the 6 pack at Blue last season when some tool ski patroller knocked like 5 people over so he could shove his was through the line to get the one empty seat the liftie left open.  He actually skied around the chair and hopped in on the end pushing the other 5 on the chair over to the right.  Doug and I were getting on the next chair and just looked at each other like what an a-hole that guy is.  Then we made it a goal to make sure we beat him down the trail....lol


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## Greg (Jul 22, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> How about when you are a single, join up with two other skiers on a triple, and then when it is time to load, they hang out behind so they can double up instead of maxing capacity.



They probably wanted to get stoned.


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## snoseek (Jul 22, 2008)

Greg said:


> They probably wanted to get stoned.



This leads to another problem of people getting high on a chair with an audience. There is lot's of kids on the mountain, along with other people that may not want to smell it. There is almost always a good spot in the woods out of the way, I think most would prefer their privacy.


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## bvibert (Jul 22, 2008)

snoseek said:


> This leads to another problem of people getting high on a chair with an audience. There is lot's of kids on the mountain, along with other people that may not want to smell it. There is almost always a good spot in the woods out of the way, I think most would prefer their privacy.



Agreed.


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## tcharron (Jul 22, 2008)

Not paying attention to the people in front of you, chatting with the guy next to you, and moving up when they move up, only to find out that the cute 16 year old in front of you DEFINATLY does not appreciate sitting down on the chair only to find a dirty 35 year old man now sitting on the seat which unexpectedly scooped him up as he'd moved into the load area.

And of course, the liftie is just staring in disbelief..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 22, 2008)

Phillycore said:


> I agree with all of the above...
> 
> How about the oppositte though....
> GSS and I along with some other people were in line for the 6 pack at Blue last season when some tool ski patroller knocked like 5 people over so he could shove his was through the line to get the one empty seat the liftie left open.  He actually skied around the chair and hopped in on the end pushing the other 5 on the chair over to the right.  Doug and I were getting on the next chair and just looked at each other like what an a-hole that guy is.  Then we made it a goal to make sure we beat him down the trail....lol



Oh yeah I remember that..The ski patrollers at Blue mountain are something else..the only time they're mellow are Thursday nights..because that's when they have their weekly circle jerks and Corona lights...lol..


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## TheBEast (Jul 22, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> 1. Hit in the head with an unannounced bar-down.
> 
> There ought to be a requisite class for this.



This is why they make helmets!!  :-D


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## Marc (Jul 22, 2008)

Bad move on the lift- taking a pee from the lift... especially if you're next to a stranger, or a couple strangers.

Apparently that was a bad move.  They didn't like it much.


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## Moe Ghoul (Jul 22, 2008)

Marc said:


> Bad move on the lift- taking a pee from the lift... especially if you're next to a stranger, or a couple strangers.
> 
> Apparently that was a bad move.  They didn't like it much.



Peein off the lift? Dude, I want my money back, lol.  Bill Murray might beat his wife and get DUI tickets driving golfcarts in Sweden, but he'd never pee off a lift. :smash:


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## 2knees (Jul 22, 2008)

i've been tagged on the head a few times with the safety bar.


2 of them by our own esteemed moderator Bvibert.


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## kingslug (Jul 22, 2008)

No matter how much crap you think you have seen on lifts and liftlines here.....what goes on in Europe takes the cake. Uncontrolled mayhem is the order of the day. There is no line, just a mass of people pushing foreward to see who can get there first. I was run over by the Austrian ski team so many times i would just run at the sight of them. We where getting into fights on and off the chair in France on a daily basis...and the Tram....forget it. And they think we are uncivilized.


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## bvibert (Jul 22, 2008)

2knees said:


> i've been tagged on the head a few times with the safety bar.
> 
> 
> 2 of them by our own esteemed moderator Bvibert.



No way, really? 

I vaguely remember maybe once, but twice?? 

Sorry dude.


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## catskills (Jul 22, 2008)

The person next to you likes to depart the lift with a real wide V snowplow.  In doing so he/she slipped the tails of their ski on top of your ski tail.  When you depart like a bullet you take the tail of their ski with you and they go down like a ton of  bricks right on their tail bone.   I saw one person break their pelvis that way just getting off the lift.


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## cbcbd (Jul 22, 2008)

Lol, lots of angry folk here that need to get to the lift right away and without any hitches...

Yeah, same peeves here but doesn't matter much to me anymore since with the helmet I'm almost always hitting my head on the bar... sometimes due to my own doing. 



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Snowboarders that need to sit on the far left or far right of the chair,,,if they are going to drag their knuckles,...they should learn to sit in all the seats...a big pet peeve of mine...I'm sick of playing musical chairs with snowboarders..I like sitting on the end too but it doesn't always work out that way...either ride double chairs exclusively or deal..


If I see a lone boarder loading next to me I usually offer them the outside seat. Some take it and some don't seem to mind taking the inside. Doesn't really matter to me most of the time where I sit on the chair so...


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## Moe Ghoul (Jul 22, 2008)

I've been known to throw the accidental elbow to avoid that. They're gonna fall anyway, no need to get dragged down with them.


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 22, 2008)

Me too getting tagged on teh helmet with the safety bar ,

 Worse yet a really " fast" older double  chair that has a VERY short bull wheel turn span  and whacks you in the back  bcuz the  lazy assed  sumbitch  lifty  fails to attend the chair favoring sitting in his warming hut toking or sippin -- AH 's


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## billski (Jul 22, 2008)

It's always entertaining to see five people try to get seated on the quad.
Single!


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## bvibert (Jul 22, 2008)

billski said:


> It's always entertaining to see five people try to get seated on the quad.
> Single!



I've had three people try to load the double I was working and then argue with me when I stopped the lift and told them they couldn't do that. :roll:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 22, 2008)

Smoking cigs on the lift...I tolerate it..but I think people should ask permission if they are riding with random people..

Usually if somebody asks me if they mind if they smoke...I joke,"Only if it's weed"...lol


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## severine (Jul 22, 2008)

snoseek said:


> This leads to another problem of people getting high on a chair with an audience. There is lot's of kids on the mountain, along with other people that may not want to smell it. There is almost always a good spot in the woods out of the way, I think most would prefer their privacy.


I HATE that.  Yuck.


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## BushMogulMaster (Jul 22, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> Me too getting tagged on teh helmet with the safety bar ,
> 
> Worse yet a really " fast" older double  chair that has a VERY short bull wheel turn span  and whacks you in the back  bcuz the  lazy assed  sumbitch  lifty  fails to attend the chair favoring sitting in his warming hut toking or sippin -- AH 's



You never mastered the art of self-loading???  That's an important one. :wink:

Which has me thinking (I know, that's a scary thing).  The only reason lifties perform like crap is because they are treated like crap.  They are perceived as the least important workers at the resort, the scum, the lowest of the low.  They are, in fact, some of the most important people on payroll.  Who has more one-on-one face-to-face contact with the guest than the lift attendants/operators?  Who has more direct, constant responsibility for the guests' safety?  No one.  Yet they are the lowest paid, most poorly treated members of the team.  Seems to be a bit of a disconnect.  And people wonder why they aren't attentive or aren't enthusiastic???  That's not an excuse for lousy performance IMO, but I think it does explain the general attitude.

Back on topic:

You know what annoys the heck out of me... the armchair resort operators who ride up the lift with you and whine about how the mountain is "Just trying to save money by [insert random observation here, e.g. not making snow on that trail, not running that lift, not grooming that trail, etc.]."


I'm rather annoyed at the folks who can't read the signs, or can't understand "Wait Here" and "Load Here."  Pretty simple instructions, really.

How about when you're loading a quad (esp. fixed grip) and one or two of the four people loading decide to stand way behind the load board.......


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## bvibert (Jul 22, 2008)

BushMogulMaster said:


> You never mastered the art of self-loading???  That's an important one.
> 
> You know, the only reason lifties perform like crap is because they are treated like crap.  They are perceived as the least important workers at the resort.  They are, in fact, some of the most important people on payroll.  Who has more one-on-one face-to-face contact with the guest than the lifties?  Who has more direct, constant responsibility for the guests' safety? No one.  Yet they are the lowest paid, most poorly treated members of the team.  Seems to be a bit of a disconnect.  And people wonder why they don't do a good job....................................... anyway, enough on that one for today.



I agree, thank you! 



BushMogulMaster said:


> How about when you're loading a quad (esp. fixed grip) and one or two of the four people loading decide to stand way behind the load board.......



When I'm bumping (FG Triple) and someone does that I try to get them to move forward to the line, but usually their legs end up bumping the chair for the other guests who made it to the correct spot.   Unfortunately if that person is on the bigger side and are on either end it can cause the chair to swing to the side screwing up the load (or hitting me :angry, so it's preferable if people just pay attention and move to the correct spot... :roll:


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## riverc0il (Jul 22, 2008)

Greg said:


> They probably wanted to get stoned.


I find this happens more with lower intermediates and upper level beginners riding chairs over their heads that are turning at higher than used to speed and they are not confident boarding the lift with a full chair. This also happens with love birds. Stoners usually light it up without care from what I have seen.


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## ski_resort_observer (Jul 22, 2008)

Johnskiismore said:


> Lift attendant scanning tickets and passes........ and the scanner isn't working correctly!  Chair upon chair is going up the mountain you're 20th in line, and he/she will keep on trying to scan while blood pressure reaches critical mass!



Drink a few beers maybe your blood pressure will stay happier.

I wish some of you could spend just one day working as a liftie scanning passes/tiks. It's just as frustrating to the liftie when the scanners don't work. It may shock you but they want to keep every chair full on busy days as much as you do. On some days problems with the scanners happen too often, especially in cold weather. Some scanners don't scan thru the plastic see-thru pocket you might have your pass/tik in.  Most lifties if it won't scan after 2/3 times will let you pass. 

All the scanners should work most of the time but sometimes they don't. Please don't take it out on the liftie/scanner as it usually not their fault. Alot of the problems have to due with the battery. Resorts should have charged batteries ready to go in the bottom lift station of every lift and should change them before they go dead or a low enough charge they won't scan. It would be great if every resort had have the latest most powerful scanners, enough extra batteries and the time to check the battery level often when it's busy but the reality is they all don't. 

Other things that slow down the line, people who put their pass/tik in a place the liftie can't readily see. Perhaps some people do it on purpose. :wink: Have your tik/pass out and ready to be scanned. 

We all want to get going up the mountain, the lifties want the same thing. If the scanner isn't working I don't think it would delay things for more than 10 sec. I hear alot of disrespectful comments. No need for it.
The liftie is probably already having a bad day and probably trying to make the best of it. Put yourself in their place, keep your cool.


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## billski (Jul 22, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> It's just as frustrating to the liftie when the scanners don't work.



So how about a low-tech solution like reading the ticket date stamp?  
1. Scan once 
2. If scan fails, look at the ticket you're holding for the proper date and empower the liftie to just let them go.

Why debug technology on the slope? If it's an immature technology, don't make your paying clients pay for your deficiencies?  All you're losing is marketing data   We need to be thinking about customers here.
I can understand why people get cranky about this issue, and it's not just this list.  When you're paying $80 for a ticket, and the winter days are short, the last thing you need is to be hassled.  The not so veiled accusation is that of ticket theft, as opposed to just collecting silly old market data.
So let's not take it out on the liftie, let's take it out on his/her boss for not giving the liftie the leeway they need.

OK now you got me going.  Why don't we run this like an amusement park?  go through the admission gate, fence off the front of the park, and once you're in, no more scanning.  You want my market data, movement behaviour?  Put a chip in my ticket and sensors wherever you want - lift lines, cafeteria line, bathroom.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 22, 2008)

billski;289540

OK now you got me going.  Why don't we run this like an amusement park?  go through the admission gate said:
			
		

> At Blue mountain..they scan outside of both lodges so I can put my pass in my pocket while skiing if I want so it's not flapping in the breeze..and it works out well because there is no need for anybody to check passes at the lifts...it's also good for people who buy a morning pass because they can ski longer as long as they don't go into the lodge..


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## Johnskiismore (Jul 22, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> We all want to get going up the mountain, the lifties want the same thing. If the scanner isn't working I don't think it would delay things for more than 10 sec. I hear alot of disrespectful comments. No need for it.
> The liftie is probably already having a bad day and probably trying to make the best of it. Put yourself in their place, keep your cool.




No disrespect intended here, but, I have been in a situation more than once where the line didn't move for a couple of minutes due a scanner issue.  To boot it was a weekday!  A good friend of mine is a tech at a ski area, and he is constantly complaining about the scanner.  A lot of them are not well built, and he's the one fixing them.  

So that is where my aggrevation comes from, knowing that the devices pretty much blow, and it's now wasting everyone's time.


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## riverc0il (Jul 22, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I wish some of you could spend just one day working as a liftie scanning passes/tiks. It's just as frustrating to the liftie when the scanners don't work.


I have a great deal of respect for lifties. But if I mountain decides to use scanners, they better be working and the line better be organized cause nothing is worse than seeing empty or not full chairs going up because lifties are busy scanning tickets. I never take it out on the liftie. I just don't ski at mountains that piss me off because of this type of crap (Bush has not pissed me off with this type of crap, yet, just for the record  ).


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## mondeo (Jul 23, 2008)

Mostly repeats:
Spread eagled skis/sideways boards
Smoking, either type (especially in a gondola)
Anything that causes lower than capacity chair loads, be it waiting, or just plain disorganization
Lifties that feel the need to _increase_ the speed of the chair into the back of my knees (much respect to the lifties that make it a smooth load, though.)
People that don't wait at the 'load here' line (is it really that hard?)
Waiting for people in the lift line
Obstructing the lift line entrance while waiting for others
Stepping into skis in the lift line

One of my biggest problems with Killington is how disorganized the lift lines are; I think part of the reason that people are inconsiderate in their lift line ettiquite is that they don't realize they're being inconsiderate, because there's no real behavior that is demonstrated as being expected. At my old home mountain (ok, hill,) Holiday Valley, the lift lines were always very well attended, and therefore people either knew the drill or got on board very quickly. The only lift that comes close to that level of organization at Kmart is the Gondola. Get more lift attendants and optimize the lifts you have before you start worrying about uphill capacity.


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## riverc0il (Jul 23, 2008)

Oh boy, I am just getting warmed up. While waiting in the singles line at Jay when it stretches out beyond the ropes, nothing pisses me off more than skiers and riders cutting through the singles line to get into the regular doubles/triples lines. Is it that damn hard to cut across. "oops, sorry dude...." Yea, thanks for running right over my skis because you were too lazy to go around like everyone else.


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## ski_resort_observer (Jul 23, 2008)

All I'm saying is that scanners at the base lifts are now part of the process at many of the large resorts. They are not going away. 

We don't have toll booths in Vermont but when I travel to Mass, NH or Jersey I have to deal with them just like everyone else. Sometimes it's a pain with gridlock and can take time to get thru. It's not the toll booth operators fault yet they get verbal abuse all the time. 

Neither the lifties or the toll booth folks can change things, keep that in mind, no reason to get upset at them. That's all.


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## bvibert (Jul 23, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> Drink a few beers maybe your blood pressure will stay happier.
> 
> I wish some of you could spend just one day working as a liftie scanning passes/tiks. It's just as frustrating to the liftie when the scanners don't work. It may shock you but they want to keep every chair full on busy days as much as you do. On some days problems with the scanners happen too often, especially in cold weather. Some scanners don't scan thru the plastic see-thru pocket you might have your pass/tik in.  Most lifties if it won't scan after 2/3 times will let you pass.
> 
> ...



Thanks SRO, well put.

FYI to others that have mentioned it; scanning the tickets is to prevent ticket fraud, plain and simple.  They may get some marketing value out of the data, but it's secondary.


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## kingslug (Jul 23, 2008)

Scanning.....annoying but what can you do? It's the same as me having to show my ID every time I enter my building...and I run the place.


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## RENO (Jul 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> At Blue mountain..they scan outside of both lodges so I can put my pass in my pocket while skiing if I want so it's not flapping in the breeze..and it works out well because there is no need for anybody to check passes at the lifts...*it's also good for people who buy a morning pass because they can ski longer as long as they don't go into the lodge*..



That's what I usually do at Blue. :-D  I'll take a lunch break about 11:30 and then head back out around 12 and usually go till 2. Haven't been there in a couple season's. Plan on hitting Blue this coming season though...


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## severine (Jul 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> At Blue mountain..they scan outside of both lodges so I can put my pass in my pocket while skiing if I want so it's not flapping in the breeze..and it works out well because there is no need for anybody to check passes at the lifts...*it's also good for people who buy a morning pass because they can ski longer as long as they don't go into the lodge*..





bvibert said:


> FYI to others that have mentioned it; scanning the tickets is to prevent ticket fraud, plain and simple.  They may get some marketing value out of the data, but it's secondary.


EXACTLY.  And what GSS mentioned IS ticket fraud.  Knowing that if he didn't have his ticket scanned right away, he could get away with using it longer than the stated time on it.

Ticket scanners where I worked were considered Loss Prevention employees.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 23, 2008)

RENO said:


> That's what I usually do at Blue. :-D  I'll take a lunch break about 11:30 and then head back out around 12 and usually go till 2. Haven't been there in a couple season's. Plan on hitting Blue this coming season though...



Totally I have a season pass so it doesn't matter to me but I always used to do exactly what you described..The good thing is that the weekend morning pass is good from 7:30AM-12:30PM for 5 hours which allows lots of runs..


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## cbcbd (Jul 23, 2008)

Moe Ghoul said:


> I've been known to throw the accidental elbow to avoid that. They're gonna fall anyway, no need to get dragged down with them.


I find that growling to myself on the lift keeps people from touching me. 
And usually when I get on the lift I start off by telling the other chair mates my personal disclaimer:
"No smoking or I'm calling the cops. Especially if I smell Mary Juana.
I control when the bar goes up or down and will tell YOU when that shall happen.
If you start swinging the chair I will bite you.
If you touch my skis with yours I will bite you.
If you do anything that endangers my vert or run count for the day I will bite you.
Understood?" 

And they usually do.


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## billski (Jul 23, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> All I'm saying is that scanners at the base lifts are now part of the process at many of the large resorts. They are not going away.
> 
> , no reason to get upset at them. That's all.



Agreed, but good management empowers it's employees  to compensate for the failure of the infrastructure...(i.e., scanner fails, let 'em go...)


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## billski (Jul 23, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> I find that growling to myself on the lift keeps people from touching me.
> And usually when I get on the lift I start off by telling the other chair mates my personal disclaimer:
> "No smoking or I'm calling the cops. Especially if I smell Mary Juana.
> I control when the bar goes up or down and will tell YOU when that shall happen.
> ...



Gee Chris, this really motivates me to ride the chair with you!
Make you a deal.  We'll get on a 6-pack (chair that is), left is your side, right is my side, nobody in the middle.  The Indians figured that out a long time ago...







LAKE                CHARGOGGAGOGGMANCHAUGGAGOGGCHAUBUNAGUNGAMAUGG

In the 1920's, a reporter for                The Webster Times, Lawrence J. Daly, wrote that it was a Nipmuck                Indian word meaning "You fish on your side, I fish on my side and                nobody fishes in the middle." That stuck even though Mr. Daly                confessed repeatedly that he had made the whole thing up.
source: http://www.websterlakeassociation.com


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## cbcbd (Jul 23, 2008)

billski said:


> Gee Chris, this really motivates me to ride the chair with you!


Lol, I guess I forgot to close my post with:

"  "


I'm just messin'... people on the lift don't usually bother me, everyone's got their quirks. 
...I do enough damage to my skis on my own anyway, someone skiing over them (while annoying) or accidentally banging them on the lift doesn't really get a rise out of me. 
...I like my helmet because I can get a smack on the head once in a while and not be bothered by it. Stuff happens, people don't usually mean to wack each other on the head with bars.
...I don't like tobacco smoke but hey, we're outside at least. I could care less about the cheeba cheeba when not around kids
...I guess the lifts I tend to ride have minimal gaperificness... I don't remember ever being grabbed for support - maybe its because I suck at skiing


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## AdironRider (Jul 23, 2008)

As a former smoker (24 days butt free!) it always annoyed me when people would get all butthurt cause I was smoking OUTSIDE. There was one instance that still sticks out in my mind that happened last season on the Thunder lift at Jackson. Its a pretty low-key midweek day with a couple inches new (this past season that was nothing). Anyways Im riding solo on the lift (a full chair ahea of said douchebag) smoking minding my own business. We get to the top and unload and he proceeds to lay into me about how Im ruining his experience blah blah blah. I pretty much flew off the handle on the guy. Look people, your outside. I can smoke if I want to. I already cant indoors pretty much anywhere these days. But if you want to try and control my personal habits outdoors where its no harm to you, well you can pound sand....


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## bigbog (Jul 23, 2008)

*...agreed...*



Johnskiismore;2891....... no line said:


> ;-);-)..
> I know what you guys mean....
> I wish all the aholes that are a couple of descents away from bar-time...would simply give up, grow up, and just head to the bar...where they wanna end up anyways...
> 
> ...


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## bigbog (Jul 23, 2008)

*...uh uh..;-)*



billski said:


> So how about a low-tech solution like reading the ticket date stamp?
> 1. Scan once
> 2. If scan fails, look at the ticket you're holding for the proper date and empower the liftie to just let them go.....


Unfortunately this is what is known as...the phony ticket!  ...and, as you've shown...as most of us would encourage when in line, we would like the liftie to do exactly that...AND SO WOULD THE SCAMMER! ..nothing like group-peer-pressure to help out the photocopy artist... that's the easy way to photocopy your way to a free day of skiing....
I think the handheld HW is the most inexpensive way to go....hey, if MRG can survive...with it's single-lift I think we can wait...but would be great if lifties would be provided with several scanners...there's most always one person at the bottom with nothing to do...seems like they can clean off a scanner while the other two-three work...

$.01


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## bigbog (Jul 23, 2008)

*....wow..*



cbcbd said:


> Lol, I guess I forgot to close my post with:
> 
> "  "


So *cbc* ...you're gonna simply accept that _stuff_ about what's left and what's right..as well as a little emphasis of "authority to preserve order"....from a Massachusetts driver...? ...:roll::roll:


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## riverc0il (Jul 23, 2008)

AdironRider said:


> As a former smoker (24 days butt free!) it always annoyed me when people would get all butthurt cause I was smoking OUTSIDE. There was one instance that still sticks out in my mind that happened last season on the Thunder lift at Jackson. Its a pretty low-key midweek day with a couple inches new (this past season that was nothing). Anyways Im riding solo on the lift (a full chair ahea of said douchebag) smoking minding my own business. We get to the top and unload and he proceeds to lay into me about how Im ruining his experience blah blah blah. I pretty much flew off the handle on the guy. Look people, your outside. I can smoke if I want to. I already cant indoors pretty much anywhere these days. But if you want to try and control my personal habits outdoors where its no harm to you, well you can pound sand....


I think this issue has been dealt with before, but cigarette smoke really bothers some people (I am one of those people though my body tolerates it much more than it used to). It isn't just ruining the experience for some people, it makes some people feel sick and it is an annoyance to people who can not move to avoid the cigarette cloud. Normally, I don't care if people smoke outside. If I am down wind, I move or reposition myself. But when you are on a chair, you are stuck breathing in the smoke for the entire duration of the cigarette.  Same when you are in the lift coral. No place to go. And trust me when I say that smoke from one or two chairs up is painfully noticeable. The smoke doesn't just dissipate instantly.

Regarding the "no harm" aspect, you are correct in that breathing a little second hand smoke outside really is not harming any one. But then again, it wouldn't be harming anyone to go up to them and spit on their clothing either. There are a lot of things we just don't do to other people even if it wouldn't cause them harm. Just common decency. No one is trying to restrict your access to smoking. Rather they are just saying please don't blow your smoke into my face. Which is exactly what happens when you are riding a lift and someone is smoking on the next chair.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 23, 2008)

AdironRider said:


> As a former smoker (24 days butt free!) it always annoyed me when people would get all butthurt cause I was smoking OUTSIDE. There was one instance that still sticks out in my mind that happened last season on the Thunder lift at Jackson. Its a pretty low-key midweek day with a couple inches new (this past season that was nothing). Anyways Im riding solo on the lift (a full chair ahea of said douchebag) smoking minding my own business. We get to the top and unload and he proceeds to lay into me about how Im ruining his experience blah blah blah. I pretty much flew off the handle on the guy. Look people, your outside. I can smoke if I want to. I already cant indoors pretty much anywhere these days. But if you want to try and control my personal habits outdoors where its no harm to you, well you can pound sand....



What do you do with your cigarette butt????:uzi:


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## AdironRider (Jul 23, 2008)

Respect for others? Are you serious? I really could give a crap if it makes you uncomfortable that Im smoking 50 feet in front or behind you (complete guess on chair spacing, I bet its more), which was the case in question. I would argue that its respectful to let one do as they wish in that situation. If I was sitting next to you different story. Whenever I rode a lift with others I always asked out of respect as I would be sitting right next to them. But if Im 50+ feet away from you, you can deal. You might get a hint of the smell, but there certainly isnt a cloud overcoming you. Like I said, if you're going to get all worked up over that, pound sand. It would even be a stretch to complain about someone smoking 50 feet away from you indoors, let alone outside. That is not blowing smoke in your face, not even close. 

I usually buttraped em (flicked the cherry and remaining tobacco away), and stuck the filter in my pocket, even though camels (my cig when I smoked) have 100% cotton filters and biodegrade. Its the marbs and parliaments that end up littering everywhere. Funny story actually. At the place I rented in Jackson my roomate and I would smoke butts out on the deck. There was 4 feet of snow out there the whole winter so we usually just flicked em into the snow and planned on sweeping em up in the spring when we moved. Come spring time all the camel butts were gone and the only ones left were his marbs. Got myself out of butt cleanup duty thanks to good ol mother nature. Sweet.


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## riverc0il (Jul 23, 2008)

AdironRider said:


> Respect for others? Are you serious? I really could give a crap if it makes you uncomfortable that Im smoking 50 feet in front or behind you (complete guess on chair spacing, I bet its more), which was the case in question. I would argue that its respectful to let one do as they wish in that situation. If I was sitting next to you different story. Whenever I rode a lift with others I always asked out of respect as I would be sitting right next to them. But if Im 50+ feet away from you, you can deal. You might get a hint of the smell, but there certainly isnt a cloud overcoming you.


I figured that was the response I would get. Much the same type of responses were made by both smokers and ex-smokers in the last thread we had on the issue.

You don't seem to understand, but with certain wind directions, cigarette smoke is actually worse when you are down wind (even at a distance, believe it or not) rather than sitting right next to someone (also, your 50 foot estimate is a bit far, IMO, except maybe for high speed lifts). In other words, it is worse for the chair downwind than for someone sitting right next to you in the chair. I have been in both situations and honestly was not bothered sitting next to someone that smoked that blew away from the chair though the person in the next chair back may not have felt the same.

Respect for others? Am I serious? Yes. Someone approached you about the problem and you failed to consider their personal perspective when you were infringing upon them. That to me is lack of respect. Not only did you not consider their perspective but you blasted them for expressing concern that you were doing something that negatively effected them. Your right as an individual extends to the point that your rights infringe upon other people. Infringing upon other people and not caring about said infringement is a lack of respect, IMO. Not to mention callous. Just because it doesn't bother you and you don't think your actions would be unpleasant to others does not mean that your actions can not possibly have a highly unpleasant effect upon someone else. That is essentially a sociopathic perspective on how one's actions effect other people. Sorry to sound preachy but it is this aspect of human nature that depresses me the most.


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## Greg (Jul 23, 2008)

As much as I hate to agree with A-Ride for no other reason than his abrasive condescending tone, I do. While you might be annoyed by someone smoking a chair ahead of you, rarely will you get a cloud of smoke in your face. You'll smell it, sure, but not constantly unless it's an unusually calm day, and even then, you probably will only get a whiff here and there. I really can't imagine that smoke at that distance can make another person physically sick. And the spitting on someone's clothes analogy doesn't hold any water. Sorry, Steve, but in that instance you're defacing someone else's property. A closer analogy would be someone in the chair ahead of you with an annoyingly loud voice. Like a butt on the chair ahead of you, it's annoying, but really, that's all you can call it.


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## awf170 (Jul 23, 2008)

This thread makes me want to never ride a lift again...


-The Pretentious Turn Earner


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## hardline (Jul 23, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> I find that growling to myself on the lift keeps people from touching me.
> And usually when I get on the lift I start off by telling the other chair mates my personal disclaimer:
> "No smoking or I'm calling the cops. Especially if I smell Mary Juana.
> I control when the bar goes up or down and will tell YOU when that shall happen.
> ...



if someone said that to me i would do everything he said not to do. just for being such a crab ass and not even saying hello.


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## hardline (Jul 23, 2008)

BushMogulMaster said:


> You never mastered the art of self-loading???  That's an important one. :wink:
> 
> Which has me thinking (I know, that's a scary thing).  The only reason lifties perform like crap is because they are treated like crap.  They are perceived as the least important workers at the resort, the scum, the lowest of the low.  They are, in fact, some of the most important people on payroll.  Who has more one-on-one face-to-face contact with the guest than the lift attendants/operators?  Who has more direct, constant responsibility for the guests' safety?  No one.  Yet they are the lowest paid, most poorly treated members of the team.  Seems to be a bit of a disconnect.  And people wonder why they aren't attentive or aren't enthusiastic???  That's not an excuse for lousy performance IMO, but I think it does explain the general attitude.
> 
> ...



one thing i do if i an with someone less experienced  on FG. is load on the outside of where the chair come around the bullwheel and get little behind where the are loading and use my rear arm to help the lift load the chair.  now that i think about it i do it when ever loading a FG.


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## mondeo (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm in the middle on the smoking issue. For one, I hate being the next chair after a smoker. If I'm on the chair with them, ok, I turn my head away from them and away from the smoke, which as we move is being left in a trail behind us. Next chair, there's nothing I can do. I'm in the exhaust.

But, while it bugs the hell out of me, I can understand that it might bug the hell out of the smoker not to light up. My comfort isn't any more important than his, and I recognize that tabacco smokers' rights have been crushed almost to the point of marijuana smokers.


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## AdironRider (Jul 23, 2008)

Can anyone tell me how to quote two separate posts in the same thread? I cant figure it out for the life of me. 


Anyways, sorry for the abrasive tone, I just got super annoyed when I did smoke how I couldnt go a single day without someone preaching down to me about my habit. Look, I took DARE classes, Ive even lost a few family members due to smoking. I know the risks, have weighed them, and am comfortable with my decision. Besides I quit, that says enough about how I felt about it. Plus, it just means Im cranky from a lack of butt intake...

Anyways, Steve, Im sorry, but seriously, deal with it. I may not smoke anymore, but like I said before, you anti-smokers have claimed every bar, restaurant, etc in the land. Now you're not satisfied when someone 50 feet away from you, and I think your underestimating but lets agree to disagree, OUTSIDE, is smoking. So now to smoke according to you, I need to be further than a chairs distance away from anyone else who might get offended? Come on. Plus, you equated it to spitting on you and called me a sociopath. You really think that?  Puhlease. Smokers get more flak than almost anyone else in this country these days but thats rediculous and I think deep down you know it.  I stand by my statement that it would be respectful to me to let me do as I wish given that I was alone smoking away from anyone else. I wasn't disprespecting anyone. 

Which brings up a good point IMO. In this day and age its pretty much trendy to be offended. I think its crap, but everyone gets offended by everything these days. Look, unless  Im causing you physical harm or emotionally belittling a loved one, move along. Its not that big a deal. Whether it be smoking by myself on a lift or what have you, is it really worth getting offended about. I realize I got worked up about smoking and need to practice what I preach. Like I said, its the lack of butt intake I swear...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 24, 2008)

Adirondack Rider reminds me of Denis Leary with his rants for smokers rights..lol..call me crazy but they should just make cigs illegal due to the health risks..and make weed legal due to the health benefits...


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## Hawkshot99 (Jul 24, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> call me crazy but they should just make cigs illegal due to the health risks..and make weed legal due to the health benefits...



wow..................


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## cbcbd (Jul 24, 2008)

bigbog said:


> So *cbc* ...you're gonna simply accept that _stuff_ about what's left and what's right..as well as a little emphasis of "authority to preserve order"....from a Massachusetts driver...? ...:roll::roll:





hardline said:


> if someone said that to me i would do everything he said not to do. just for being such a crab ass and not even saying hello.


A disclaimer, because I thought it might've been obvious...my original comment was a complete joke. Honestly, I just can't believe how emotional people are getting here over a lift ride and I guess its sad that some would believe that someone would go to the extent of my over-the-top rant on the first post. 
I guess from the responses in this post it doesn't seem so far fetched that someone might be so angry to say some of the things I "said".
And here I thought skiers were generally a crowd that would just be psyched to have the privilege to be enjoying a day on the beautiful winter slopes... instead I find a bunch of very angry people complaining about people's mistakes seriously ruining their time.
So sad...



awf170 said:


> This thread makes me want to never ride a lift again...
> 
> 
> -The Pretentious Turn Earner


Tell me about it...


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## Trekchick (Jul 24, 2008)

AdironRider said:


> Can anyone tell me how to quote two separate posts in the same thread? I cant figure it out for the life of me. ...



Use the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




on the posts you want to use, then click on the Post button on the bottom of the page


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## severine (Jul 24, 2008)

To say that secondhand smoke has no effect on others because you're smoking outside is absurd.
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422


> The current Surgeon General’s Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.



I have *asthma*.  It affects me, even from a chair or two away on the lift, I can't move out of the direction of it so I'm forced to breathe it in, and yes, it pisses me off.  It's not a my rights, your rights thing.  If I'm sitting behind you on the chairlift, I don't have a choice as to whether or not I'll be breathing it in.  You have a choice, however.  I don't care whether or not you know the risks to yourself.  I could give a rat's ass about whether or not a smoker cares that s/he is cutting his/her life short with every puff.  What I care about is that I'm forced to breathe it in, especially at a time when I'm outside to experience and enjoy the _fresh_ air.

Yes, this is a topic that really gets me going.  I won't say anything further because I know that this discussion never goes any further.  Smokers always cry that their rights are violated by not being allowed to smoke; non-smokers try to explain how our rights are violated by those smoking around us; nobody wins.


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## o3jeff (Jul 24, 2008)

I hate the smoking on the lifts too. I quit 6 years ago and now can't stand to be near it, especially when you walk out of the store and into a cloud of smoke.

While I was in RI the other day I heard on the radio that the banned smoking on the beaches which I think they should do here since most are inconsiderate of the people around them. When I smoked I would at least go out of they way so it would blow into everyone around me.


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## billski (Jul 24, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> I hate the smoking on the lifts too. I quit 6 years ago and now can't stand to be near it, especially when you walk out of the store and into a cloud of smoke.
> 
> While I was in RI the other day I heard on the radio that the banned smoking on the beaches which I think they should do here since most are inconsiderate of the people around them. When I smoked I would at least go out of they way so it would blow into everyone around me.



waaaay OT, but....
Actually, I would support a ban on cellphone calls in the bathroom.  I do everything I can to make bathroom-y noises when in there.  I think the person on the other end of the line would have every right to be offended.  If I ever discovered I was talking to someone on the can, well the conversation would go  "hello? hello?  I can't hear you?   your're breaking up.... click...."


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## snoseek (Jul 24, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> .call me crazy but they should just make cigs illegal due to the health risks..and make weed legal due to the health benefits...



I'm totally with you on this one.


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## bvibert (Jul 24, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> I think this issue has been dealt with before, but cigarette smoke really bothers some people (I am one of those people though my body tolerates it much more than it used to). It isn't just ruining the experience for some people, it makes some people feel sick and it is an annoyance to people who can not move to avoid the cigarette cloud. Normally, I don't care if people smoke outside. If I am down wind, I move or reposition myself. But when you are on a chair, you are stuck breathing in the smoke for the entire duration of the cigarette.  Same when you are in the lift coral. No place to go. And trust me when I say that smoke from one or two chairs up is painfully noticeable. The smoke doesn't just dissipate instantly.
> 
> Regarding the "no harm" aspect, you are correct in that breathing a little second hand smoke outside really is not harming any one. But then again, it wouldn't be harming anyone to go up to them and spit on their clothing either. There are a lot of things we just don't do to other people even if it wouldn't cause them harm. Just common decency. No one is trying to restrict your access to smoking. Rather they are just saying please don't blow your smoke into my face. Which is exactly what happens when you are riding a lift and someone is smoking on the next chair.





riverc0il said:


> I figured that was the response I would get. Much the same type of responses were made by both smokers and ex-smokers in the last thread we had on the issue.
> 
> You don't seem to understand, but with certain wind directions, cigarette smoke is actually worse when you are down wind (even at a distance, believe it or not) rather than sitting right next to someone (also, your 50 foot estimate is a bit far, IMO, except maybe for high speed lifts). In other words, it is worse for the chair downwind than for someone sitting right next to you in the chair. I have been in both situations and honestly was not bothered sitting next to someone that smoked that blew away from the chair though the person in the next chair back may not have felt the same.
> 
> Respect for others? Am I serious? Yes. Someone approached you about the problem and you failed to consider their personal perspective when you were infringing upon them. That to me is lack of respect. Not only did you not consider their perspective but you blasted them for expressing concern that you were doing something that negatively effected them. Your right as an individual extends to the point that your rights infringe upon other people. Infringing upon other people and not caring about said infringement is a lack of respect, IMO. Not to mention callous. Just because it doesn't bother you and you don't think your actions would be unpleasant to others does not mean that your actions can not possibly have a highly unpleasant effect upon someone else. That is essentially a sociopathic perspective on how one's actions effect other people. Sorry to sound preachy but it is this aspect of human nature that depresses me the most.



Well said Steve, I completely agree.



AdironRider said:


> Respect for others? Are you serious? *I really could give a crap if it makes you uncomfortable* that Im smoking 50 feet in front or behind you (complete guess on chair spacing, I bet its more), which was the case in question. I would argue that its respectful to let one do as they wish in that situation. If I was sitting next to you different story. Whenever I rode a lift with others I always asked out of respect as I would be sitting right next to them. But if Im 50+ feet away from you, you can deal. You might get a hint of the smell, but there certainly isnt a cloud overcoming you. Like I said, if you're going to get all worked up over that, pound sand. It would even be a stretch to complain about someone smoking 50 feet away from you indoors, let alone outside. That is not blowing smoke in your face, not even close.



Spoken like a true, disrespectful smoker who just doesn't get it and obviously doesn't care.

Think of it this way, would you be pissed if there was a big steaming pile of stinky cow crap, or maybe a dead moose that's been festering for a couple of weeks, on the chair in front of you, with the smell constantly wafting down to your chair?


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## ed-drum (Jul 24, 2008)

I smoke tobacco myself, but I try to be respectful to people who don't like it. I HATE it when smokers go outside and stand right in front of the entrance to the lodge blocking access. As for smoking dope, here in NY it is not just a "ticket" to get caught smoking in public, it is a class B misdemeanor with mandatory loss of your drivers license for 6 months. So, smoking dope on the lift is not a good idea. The person next to you might be a cop or a snitch. Or in the car in a parking lot either. I have heard of of people who do this and get busted. Go and hide someplace! It is not illegal to smoke on a lift but it is against the law to throw things off of a lift. Go figure!


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## tjf67 (Jul 24, 2008)

bvibert said:


> Well said Steve, I completely agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In all fairness I dont thinks smokes come close to smelling like your comparison above.  

Smokers get it.  Non smokers do not.


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## o3jeff (Jul 24, 2008)

Bad comparison Brian, the smell of the pile cannot harm/kill you while the smoke can.


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## billski (Jul 24, 2008)

Full disclosure: I have never smoked.
We've got to keep this in perspective.  In the 1940s, 70% of US adult males smoked and 40% of adult females.  In 2005 25% of each gender smoked.  That's huge.

I remember in the 60's, there wasn't anywhere you could go to escape smoke.  Libraries, classrooms, ski lifts, restaurants.  Well, maybe not hospitals or flammable liquids locales.    Health concerns aside, If I look at the fact that we have effectively restricted the behavior of 1/4 of the adult population, something seems wrong.  

It is socially acceptable to criticize those who smoke today, thus the public flogging continues.  Hey, the native americans were smoking some pretty whacky stuff 2000 years ago too.

This is entirely separate from the health issues, which are entirely legitimate.  I vote for giving them "their space" rather than to continue to shut down more and more venues.  

Consideration and respect is a two-way street.  As a society, we are, in generally, less civil, less polite, less considerate than 30 years ago.  That applies to smoking, belching, door holding, driving and the list goes on.  

So I'll give smokers their space, just as I will the Jehova's Witnesses.  We need to be looking for more middle ground than incessantly dumping on each other.


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## Greg (Jul 24, 2008)

I used to smoke, but haven't in 10+ years and would never dream about smoking again. No way. Maybe I'm just far less hypersensitive than some, but I don't actually find the brief whiff from a cigarette all that bad (stale smoke on clothes or someone's breath is another story). It seems some people act like it's completely debilitating if they catch a whiff. I'm not saying I enjoy it, but a whiff or two doesn't send me into a tizzy. Neither does a whiff of 2 stroke fumes from a ski area's snowmobile which I find to be a much worse smell.

I've *never *been on a chairlift with someone ahead of me smoking and found that any of the smoke that I can smell can even be seen by the time it reaches me so the concentration must be pretty low. Again, slightly annoying? Perhaps, but in the scheme of life, it's not that big of a deal, at least not to me.


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## o3jeff (Jul 24, 2008)

billski said:


> *Consideration* and respect is a two-way street.



That about sums it up. I smoked for 12 years so I kinda see both sides of the argument, but I always tried to isolate myself when I was lighting up in a group of people.


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## cbcbd (Jul 24, 2008)

Greg said:


> Maybe I'm just far less hypersensitive than some, but I don't actually find the brief whiff from a cigarette all that bad (stale smoke on clothes or someone's breath is another story). It seems some people act like it's completely debilitating if they catch a whiff. I'm not saying I enjoy it, but a whiff or two doesn't send me into a tizzy. Neither does a whiff of 2 stroke fumes from a ski area's snowmobile which I find to be a much worse smell.
> 
> I've *never *been on a chairlift with someone ahead of me smoking and found that any of the smoke that I can smell can even be seen by the time it reaches me so the concentration must be pretty low. Again, slightly annoying? Perhaps, but in the scheme of life, it's not that big of a deal, at least not to me.


+1


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## dmc (Jul 24, 2008)

Sometimes I hock a lugie off the lift...  
And I hit someones deck...  Especially if it's a long stringy one..  Like if I just drank milk...


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## dmc (Jul 24, 2008)

Greg said:


> I've *never *been on a chairlift with someone ahead of me smoking and found that any of the smoke that I can smell can even be seen by the time it reaches me so the concentration must be pretty low. Again, slightly annoying? Perhaps, but in the scheme of life, it's not that big of a deal, at least not to me.



Well said...  
just don't trhow the butt off the chair... then I'll be pissed...    
Cigarette butts are what I hate about smoking..


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## bvibert (Jul 24, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> In all fairness I dont thinks smokes come close to smelling like your comparison above.



To me it is.  As a matter of fact I'd rather get a wiff of cow shit then cigarette smoke.


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## tjf67 (Jul 24, 2008)

bvibert said:


> To me it is.  As a matter of fact I'd rather get a wiff of cow shit then cigarette smoke.


you are out of your chicken.  You need to live in a bubble then the world does not cater to you.


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## BushMogulMaster (Jul 24, 2008)

AdironRider said:


> ...uncomfortable that Im smoking 50 feet in front or behind you (complete guess on chair spacing, I bet its more)...



110% OT:

You're not as far off as you think.  Chair spacing is a function of desired line speed, capacity, and loading interval.  50 feet is not unreasonable for a typical FG with a 6 second or so loading interval.


Back to your regularly scheduled broadcast..........


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## AdironRider (Jul 24, 2008)

Cool so for arguments sake Ill stick with the 50 foot stat. 

That being said, for those naysaying about me being 50 feet away from you smoking, what in your false sense of reality would be a reasonable distance? Do I need to ask everyone in the lift corral behind me if its ok to smoke solo, just in case someone might be offended? What if it offends me that I cant smoke a reasonable distance away from anyone else? Do I not have rights as well? I really cannot fathom how Im being that offensive 50 feet away from you, again OUTSIDE. You really think theres a health danger? Ill tell you, your probably breathing in way worse stuff everyday stuck in morning commute traffic everyday or even sitting around a camp fire. Get over it really. THe comparison to a dead moose is laughable.


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## mondeo (Jul 24, 2008)

It's not the distance, it's the time that matters. On a still day, all the smoke does is diffuse, a relatively slow process. So when the chair 50 ft behind you comes up 5 seconds later, they're breathing in essentially a 5 second old exhale of smoke, which is much more concentrated than even if you were standing directly downwind of a stationary smoker 50 feet away. It's diffuse enough that it's no longer visible, but it's still pretty bad for someone who can't stand the smell. And they're in that 5 second old cloud the entire way up the chair.

I've said it before, but I hate that smell, though I won't begrudge you your smoke. I can deal. I honestly would rather smell manure than cigarette smoke (though MJ smoke is even worse for me.) I think everyone here needs to chill a bit and realize that either the non-smoker or the smoker is going to be irritated if the smoker wants to light up.

Here's a question: how many of you know that secondhand smoke causes cancer?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 24, 2008)

mondeo said:


> Here's a question: how many of you know that secondhand smoke causes cancer?



Not from an occasional smoker in the liftline or the chairlift in front..


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## campgottagopee (Jul 25, 2008)

dmc said:


> Cigarette butts are what I hate about smoking..



That's why I smoke Camel non-filter


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## campgottagopee (Jul 25, 2008)

billski said:


> Full disclosure: I have never smoked.
> We've got to keep this in perspective.  In the 1940s, 70% of US adult males smoked and 40% of adult females.  In 2005 25% of each gender smoked.  That's huge.
> 
> I remember in the 60's, there wasn't anywhere you could go to escape smoke.  Libraries, classrooms, ski lifts, restaurants.  Well, maybe not hospitals or flammable liquids locales.    Health concerns aside, If I look at the fact that we have effectively restricted the behavior of 1/4 of the adult population, something seems wrong.
> ...



Spot on!!! I don't "remeber the 60's (twas just hatched) but I do remeber the 70's and smoking was everywhere then. In highschool teachers had their smoking lounges with the smoke wafting throughout the entire school. We delt with it then so there's no reason it can't be delt with today.


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## severine (Jul 25, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Not from an occasional smoker in the liftline or the chairlift in front..


Secondhand smoke is worse than smoke to a smoker.  Because someone who doesn't smoke is more sensitized to it.

Read above.  There is no safe amount of exposure to secondhand smoke.  None.

Can we end this discussion?  Nobody wins these arguments.  You're never going to enlighten the other side: smokers feel the way they do, non-smokers feel the way they do.  Nobody ever convinces the other side that s/he is correct.  It's a pointless discussion. :???:

ETA:  And just to reiterate what B said, I'd much rather inhale wafts of rotting cow shit than cigarette (or MJ) smoke any day.  Honestly.  Skunk is better, too.  It's not just the odor... it's the fact that it irritates my lungs.  I will say no more............................


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## dmc (Jul 25, 2008)

I think I light up a cigar...


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## tjf67 (Jul 25, 2008)

severine said:


> Secondhand smoke is worse than smoke to a smoker.  Because someone who doesn't smoke is more sensitized to it.
> 
> Read above.  There is no safe amount of exposure to secondhand smoke.  None.
> 
> ...




My dog got hit by a skunk last night at 2:30 in the morning.  OMG I think the smell is stuck in my nasal cavity.  I cant get rid of the smell.    OH yeah I am thinking of sticking smokes up my nose to get rid of the smell


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## dmc (Jul 25, 2008)

Andys apartment smells like skunk... And a skunk has never even been there...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 25, 2008)

dmc said:


> Andys apartment smells like skunk... And a skunk has never even been there...



The same can be said for my place..:-D


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## campgottagopee (Jul 25, 2008)

dmc said:


> Andys apartment smells like skunk... And a skunk has never even been there...



At times my "basement bar" has that tangy smell too.....


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## Johnskiismore (Jul 25, 2008)

To get a little bit back on track with the subject matter, vandalism on the lifts.  I don't mean stickers people put on the towers or the safety bar, I mean when holes are poked into the chair seat, initials among other things are scratched into the paint, so many of the gondola's at Loon have a lot of vandalism scratched in to the windows.  

It's ugly, and I hate it.


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## tjf67 (Jul 25, 2008)

Not specifically the lifts but it bugs the piss out of me when there are no garbage cans when you get off the lift.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 25, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Not specifically the lifts but it bugs the piss out of me when there are no garbage cans when you get off the lift.




Why???  If you have garbage..put it in your pocket and throw it out at the bottom....or do what most people do at Blue mountain and throw it to the side of the trail...doh..


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## cbcbd (Jul 25, 2008)

I hate it when I get off the lift and can't find a readily accessible disco or casino.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 25, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> I hate it when I get off the lift and can't find a readily accessible disco or casino.





Totally I love a the discotech..lol


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## dmc (Jul 25, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Totally I love a the discotech..lol



Ya- And now we dance...would you like to pet my monkey?
Dance sprockets - dance!


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## cbcbd (Jul 25, 2008)

TOUCH IT!!


whore

nun

whorenun


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 25, 2008)

dmc said:


> Ya- And now we dance...would you like to pet my monkey?
> Dance sprockets - dance!



It's time for the perculator..It's time for the perculator..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMEDZnM_TZE&feature=related



I need to download this to my I-Pizzle and than I can ignore the second hand smiz-oke from a Marlboro Lizzz-ittte..ya heard..


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## dmc (Jul 25, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> It's time for the perculator..It's time for the perculator..



Fo shizzle but nobody beats my little indianizle


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## cbcbd (Jul 25, 2008)

Bollywood scares me


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## hardline (Jul 26, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> It's time for the perculator..It's time for the perculator..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMEDZnM_TZE&feature=related
> 
> ...



too funny i played that last night.


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## ripzillia (Jul 30, 2008)

Lift tip #27


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## hardline (Jul 30, 2008)

ripzillia said:


> Lift tip #27



huh?


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## ripzillia (Jul 31, 2008)

Lift tip#27 




Apparently that server doesn't like hotlinking....


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## wintersyndrome (Aug 1, 2008)

2knees said:


> uncontrollable gas in the gondi.



there's a reason why it's called the "fartbox"


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 1, 2008)

wintersyndrome said:


> there's a reason why it's called the "fartbox"



Plus wearing two to three layers below the waist muffles the sound of a fart so any gas can become an SBD..Silent but Deadly..loluke:


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