# Defending Ski Haus



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

I have always bought my family stuff from Ski Haus. Steve is the co-owner with his brother Wayne, They have always been upfront with me. Cut me great deals on leftover stuff. They have worked stuff for me that I did not buy there. And yes for free. Steve knows his stuff. He must have had a good reason for not doing this. He could be losing too much money on the deal. 

I can stand when someone slams a store like this. I will talk to him this weekend and tell him that Ski Haus is being dragged through th mud on the internet.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Puck it said:


> I have always bought my family stuff from Ski Haus. Steve is the co-owner with his brother Wayne, They have always been upfront with me. Cut me great deals on leftover stuff. They have worked stuff for me that I did not buy there. And yes for free. Steve knows his stuff. He must have had a good reason for not doing this. He could be losing too much money on the deal.
> 
> I can stand when someone slams a store like this. I will talk to him this weekend and tell him that Ski Haus is being dragged through th mud on the internet.




I .... I... I... I....

agree..... 

Damn i feel dirty now


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

Me too.  I think I need a shower.  But this was way wrong:flag:


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## bvibert (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> I .... I... I... I....
> 
> agree.....
> 
> Damn i feel dirty now



Wow, that must have taken a lot to post.

Lets try to keep this thread from devolving into personal attacks (not that I'm saying the above is or anything, more of a precursor to keep this thread open)


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## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

I'll take your feed back and Swampdog's feedback into consideration should I decide to do business there. 

People have every bit as much of a right to scream from the roof tops when they feel they've been wronged as they do to go out of their way to give high praise of a business. 

When you're in sales, you have to expect that for every good deal you offer a customer, they'll tell one person.  For every bad deal, they'll tell 11.  That's the nature of the human psyche.  Pretty obvious every night you turn on the news.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> IPeople have every bit as much of a right to scream from the roof tops when they feel they've been wronged as they do to go out of their way to give high praise of a business.



They sure do...
And thats why I've contacted SkiHaus so they can come and defend themselves from the pitchfork/torch crowd...


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> They sure do...
> And thats why I've contacted SkiHaus so they can come and defend themselves from the pitchfork/torch crowd...


 

Go move.

God,  I feel really greasy and slimey right now.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> They sure do...
> And thats why I've contacted SkiHaus so they can come and defend themselves from the pitchfork/torch crowd...



As best I can tell, there is no pitchfork/torch crowd.  Just one person expressing her frustration. 

If there is a pitchfork/torch crowd, it's the people jumping her for expressing herself.


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> As best I can tell, there is no pitchfork/torch crowd. Just one person expressing her frustration.
> 
> If there is a pitchfork/torch crowd, it's the people jumping her for expressing herself.


 

Did she go down and talk with them in person? I may have missed.

I just rechecked.  She only phoned them.  Get the hell down there and talk in person instead of slamming them on the net.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> As best I can tell, there is no pitchfork/torch crowd.  Just one person expressing her frustration.
> 
> If there is a pitchfork/torch crowd, it's the people jumping her for expressing herself.




Why can't you defend MY right to defend the ski industry?

There's no pitchfork crowd because I opened my big mouth to put a stop to this BS...


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## Grassi21 (Dec 16, 2009)

I think being displeased when a written agreement is not met is understandable. I think taking the matter to smalls claims court is acceptable if the issue is that important to you.  But to threaten plastering this on the internet and going through with it is in bad taste.  But its the internetz so anything goes.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 16, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Did she go down and talk with them in person?  I may have missed.



Yes she did.


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## riverc0il (Dec 16, 2009)

I am surprised to hear that Ski Haus has been slammed here on AZ (or any where for that matter). I have not seen that thread/post yet as I just logged on and this was the first new post.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Though as a retail manager myself, I know first hand that even the best managers and best stores out there can never please every single person and occasionally someone gets really bad service. It really sucks and you can only do what you can after the fact to try to restore the trust. I hope who ever had a bad experience found a manager at Ski Haus and politely asked that things be righted.

When I lived in MA, Ski Haus was my local ski shop. I have gotten great service, equipmnet, and deals from that shop and have bought more stuff from Ski Haus than any other brick and mortar ski shop. They run a quality pair of stores and have my highest recommendation.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Why can't you defend MY right to defend the ski industry?
> 
> There's no pitchfork crowd because I opened my big mouth to put a stop to this BS...



go for it dude.  If you can quote me once saying you have no right to defend them, find it.


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes she did.


 
I reread the original post and it said she talked with Steve on the phone.  I do not see where she went down to the store.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> go for it dude.  If you can quote me once saying you have no right to defend them, find it.



Oye.... you are so lame these days...


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## thetrailboss (Dec 16, 2009)

Puck it said:


> I reread the original post and it said she talked with Steve on the phone.  I do not see where she went down to the store.



Do you think that would have made a difference?


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes she did.


 

From Swamp Dog:

Apparently they are supposed to contact the manufacturer and get the item directly from them and not sell from the floor. Well, I know that so why doesn't the sales staff on the floor? So even though MY skis are still there, Volkl has no more available so I can't have them. 

*This is completely wrong.  I know they do not order from the manufacturer aftere the year starts.  They get the inventory and that is it unless the run out and reorder.  *
*I have never heard of a ski shop doing this.*

We just got off the* phone with "Steve"* who claims to be the owner. Now you would think he would want to do the right thing, but apparently that's not his style. He is not going to sell them to me for the agreed upon price.

*She spoke on the phone.  Am I missing something later in thread?*


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

thetrailboss said:


> Do you think that would have made a difference?


 

Yes!!!!!!!!!


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## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Oye.... you are so lame these days...



can't do it can you d?  Call me out for saying something I did not.  so you result to insults.  it's the same thing every time.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> can't do it can you d?  Call me out for saying something I did not.  so you result to insults.  it's the same thing every time.



It really is....  

I feel the gravity pulling now...  

Go ahead mod... defend your friend...


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## riverc0il (Dec 16, 2009)

Interesting. It sounds like this is all about a pro form deal that fell through if I read correctly? Pro forms have a lot of requirements, as I recall. Not surprising a shop would pull the plug on a pro form deal if it was too late to order at a reduced price. Pro form is not typical retailing and I wouldn't expect a shop to honor a pro form deal if they couldn't get the gear at reduced rate.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting. It sounds like this is all about a pro form deal that fell through if I read correctly? Pro forms have a lot of requirements, as I recall. Not surprising a shop would pull the plug on a pro form deal if it was too late to order at a reduced price. Pro form is not typical retailing and I wouldn't expect a shop to honor a pro form deal if they couldn't get the gear at reduced rate.




I've had that happen to me as well..


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting. It sounds like this is all about a pro form deal that fell through if I read correctly? Pro forms have a lot of requirements, as I recall. Not surprising a shop would pull the plug on a pro form deal if it was too late to order at a reduced price. Pro form is not typical retailing and I wouldn't expect a shop to honor a pro form deal if they couldn't get the gear at reduced rate.


 
Not familar with the pro form concept.  Please elaborate.


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## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Not familar with the pro form concept.  Please elaborate.



Work for ski industry...
Get a form from manufacturers with what you can buy for cheap..
Submit it to a ski shop that carries the stuff...
Get your stuff...

BUT - it's horribly misused...


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## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Work for ski industry...
> Get a form from manufacturers with what you can buy for cheap..
> Submit it to a ski shop that carries the stuff...
> Get your stuff...
> ...


 
Okay. My nephew gets discounts directly from TNF and Oakley since he is a customs officer. It sounds like she waited too long. This expalains the order from manufacturer, they were repacing their own stock.  Could her gripe be with the manufacturer then?


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## AndyEich (Dec 17, 2009)

Ski Haus (at least the Wilmington store that is now closed) always treated me very well.  I was surprised to see them get slammed.
________
Vapor Buddy


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## Trekchick (Dec 17, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting. It sounds like this is all about a pro form deal that fell through if I read correctly? Pro forms have a lot of requirements, as I recall. Not surprising a shop would pull the plug on a pro form deal if it was too late to order at a reduced price. Pro form is not typical retailing and I wouldn't expect a shop to honor a pro form deal if they couldn't get the gear at reduced rate.


To further elaborate
In my experience with proform, the product had to be ordered early because it goes in on a special order and its not usually taken out of inventory.  I can imagine with the popularity of volkl their proform is misused and they may have some extra caution factors in place.  If that's the case then Ski Haus may suffer the ramifications if the deal isn't done by the book.

Not sure of the details of this situation, but I know Proform can be complicated and sometimes the consumer has to be more flexible.


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> To further elaborate
> In my experience with proform, the product had to be ordered early because it goes in on a special order and its not usually taken out of inventory.  I can imagine with the popularity of volkl their proform is misused and they may have some extra caution factors in place.  If that's the case then Ski Haus may suffer the ramifications if the deal isn't done by the book.
> 
> Not sure of the details of this situation, but I know Proform can be complicated and sometimes the consumer has to be more flexible.



It's complicated, there's not as many options AND watched carefully now..

I think a shop discount is actually better now...


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## gorgonzola (Dec 17, 2009)

man theres a alot of douchyness in this thread! based on the info in op the shop douched her - if thats the case power to her and douching them back on the web. i've pretty much had it with douches not living it up to their agreements these days. pretty douchy of the mods to lock the thread too imo...making this while thing worthy of a 5 douche post


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## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> To further elaborate
> In my experience with proform, the product had to be ordered early because it goes in on a special order and its not usually taken out of inventory.  I can imagine with the popularity of volkl their proform is misused and they may have some extra caution factors in place.  If that's the case then Ski Haus may suffer the ramifications if the deal isn't done by the book.
> 
> Not sure of the details of this situation, but I know Proform can be complicated and sometimes the consumer has to be more flexible.



Must be things have changed---when I ws getting my skis on a Proform I had to get them thru a rep, a "ski shop" couldn't even order them for me.


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Must be things have changed---when I ws getting my skis on a Proform I had to get them thru a rep, a "ski shop" couldn't even order them for me.



You had to get the "form" from the rep right? And then take it to the shop..


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## hammer (Dec 17, 2009)

I've never shopped at Ski Haus so I can't provide an opinion one way or the other, but IMO this looks like a situation where the original poster had a legitimate beef with them but went overboard on a public forum with her complaint.

Also, how careful does someone really need to be about what they post?  What's the line between a simple complaint and libel?

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/defamation-in-cyberspace.html

Hopefully she can come up with a reasonable compromise...and will provide an update here when she does.


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

hammer said:


> I've never shopped at Ski Haus so I can't provide an opinion one way or the other, but IMO this looks like a situation where the original poster had a legitimate beef with them but went overboard on a public forum with her complaint.
> 
> Also, how careful does someone really need to be about what they post?  What's the line between a simple complaint and libel?
> 
> ...



Again... I'd like to hear the ski shops side of the story..
PuckIt is going to stop in and find out..

Maybe we can keep this from happening again and inform people on how to navigate "pro form"


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## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

dmc said:


> You had to get the "form" from the rep right? And then take it to the shop..



Right----and I never had any contact with the shop other than dropping the form off. Usually me rep would bring them right to the mountain.


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## Vortex (Dec 17, 2009)

When I did pro form equipt it was from the rep only.  I ordered from the rep and paid the rep.  I did it in oct or early November.
  I have not worked in the industry in 20 years.  Everything changes.

I think their are variables here we may not know.  Pro form is not an every day deal.  I  don't have the facts, but the slam does not sit well with me.  If the deal is a valid one just go to another rep.


I bet eastcoastpowerhound could give some good info here.


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.

Bunch of fucking tools.....


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## St. Bear (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....



I think the whole point of this thread was to try and understand the details because otherwise we're just going solely off your side of the story.


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....



wow...  ummm....   I promised Greg I'd be good...

Now I'm REALLY interested in hearing SkiHaus's side of the story...


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 17, 2009)

WGARA -------------------life goes on --yawn


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

dmc said:


> wow...  ummm....   I promised Greg I'd be good...
> 
> Now I'm REALLY interested in hearing SkiHaus's side of the story...



Toolman, make sure you talk to Bobby, who was the sales dude on the floor, or Brian who called last week.

Make all the fucking promises you want.  You're a douche bag and always will be.


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> Toolman, make sure you talk to Bobby, who was the sales dude on the floor, or Brian who called last week.
> 
> Make all the fucking promises you want.  You're a douche bag and always will be.



Wow...    
You should just relax and revisit this in a couple days after you cool off...


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## marcski (Dec 17, 2009)

Wow, what would be astonishing to see what the reaction would have been had something real and important actually having happened here...as opposed to a mix up with a price for an inanimate object.


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## tjf67 (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....



I am not sure but I though you were a lady?    uke:


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2009)

Hey Swamp Dog - in the scheme of life, this whole thing is really pretty minor. Put it in perspective.


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2009)

marcski said:


> Wow, what would be astonishing to see what the reaction would have been had something real and important actually having happened here...as opposed to a mix up with a price for an inanimate object.



Right. And something she wasn't even interested in buying in the first place. Crazy to get this worked up over a pair of effin skis...


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 17, 2009)

greg said:


> right. And something she wasn't even interested in buying in the first place. Crazy to get this worked up over a pair of effin skis...



+1,000,000


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

warp daddy said:


> +1,000,000



-420


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2009)

dmc said:


> 420



Might help in this case...


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 17, 2009)

Save yerself  4 REAL problems       gittin all  lathered  up  over  a damn pr 'o skis  sheeit man life's 2 short .


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## Highway Star (Dec 17, 2009)

Not to pour any more fuel on the fire, but "pro form" prices are are typically 10-15% above wholesale pricing.  So, in theory, the shop could sell the skis to her at the price as promised without losing money directly.  However, it being sold-out, in demand ski, I'm sure they would much rather hold onto it and sell it at closer to retail price.  I'm also not sure how Volkl feels about sales below MAP price before a certain date.

Regardless of Volkl's policies, it sounds like the pro-form process was fully botched by both the shop employee and customer.  Pro-form orders have to done through the mfg, and have limited stock available - first come first served - and some product won't even be available on form.  It shouldn't have been written up as a normal shop sale.

Sooo....at this point, there is nothing good to come out of this.  After being slammed like this, I don't think the shop is going to feel very willing to let the skis go at a little above their cost.  Not sure if this "sales agreement" actually holds water in small claims court - as long as they refund her deposit, I don't see how they can be held liable to sell skis at a major discount that the mfg doesn't want sold at that discount.

Overall, I think the customer is lucky - the mantra is probably too much ski for her anyway.  Try something else.


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## Puck it (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up. It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....


 
Why don't you give us all the details?  You talked on the phone.  If you are that PO'ed go down and see him.  I think he will really try and make good with you.


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## Puck it (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> Toolman, make sure you talk to Bobby, who was the sales dude on the floor, or Brian who called last week.
> 
> Make all the fucking promises you want. You're a douche bag and always will be.


 

Your story is changing.  Who is Brian?  I thought you talked with Steve.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....



Yikes :evil:


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Your story is changing.  Who is Brian?  I thought you talked with Steve.



Talked with Steve last night.  Spoke with Brian last week.  With Bobby on the sales floor.  Please try to keep your facts straight.  I know it's a lot of information for you.

Yes, the Mantra is waaay too much ski for me.  I'm just a girl.  

The shop is over an hour away, I'll be going there to get my refund the next time I'm in town.  There are many shops closer to me, including Piche's whom I adore.  I went in Ski Haus because I was in the neighborhood and had never been there before.  Definitely not worth my time and I won't be going back.

If it was a restaurant and I had gotten lousy service, you'd be reading about that too.  But OMG....it's a SACRED SKI business, the gloves come off!


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## JD (Dec 17, 2009)

Assuming the deposite will be refunded...this seems like a non issue..  An emplyee fuct up...get your money back..never shop there again....done deal and their loss.  If they won't give you your money back, THEN there is an issue you SHOULD persue....


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## jaywbigred (Dec 17, 2009)

Imo her reaction is WAY overboard, but she I also think she is right.

And though we don't have the ski shop's side of the story, she has something in writing, and she gave them money (a down payment). If they can't live up to their end of the Proform bargain, that isn't really her problem. She could be more understanding, of course...

But I think its pretty wrong of you guys to justify the ski shop's actions under the argument that "we don't want to see another nice mom-and-pop store go out of business!" That shouldn't give them, or any retailer, the right to break agreements regarding sales/contracts. "They made a deal with you but it was a tough deal for them to keep, so you should be understanding now that they are breaking their deal with you" ...not a fan of that argument.

And I though I think her language and tone are completely uncalled for, I do think she is within her rights to take her grievances to the internet and elsewhere.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> If it was a restaurant and I had gotten lousy service, you'd be reading about that too.  But OMG....it's a SACRED SKI business, the gloves come off!



Really??? You'd come in here and post up hate for a restaurant---nah, I don't think so.

As someone who has been in retail all my adult life I can promise you this. If you REALLY want those skis go down and sit with the owner and try and work something out. You want to buy them, he wants to sell them. I'd dare say that lack of communication is playing a major factor here---both for you and the shop. You get more done with sugar than you do with salt, so spit the salt out, go get your new skiis and then tell us how great they ski.


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## hammer (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> Talked with Steve last night.  Spoke with Brian last week.  With Bobby on the sales floor.  Please try to keep your facts straight.  I know it's a lot of information for you.
> 
> Yes, the Mantra is waaay too much ski for me.  I'm just a girl.
> 
> ...


I think you are missing the whole point...

If all you did was complain about how the deal fell through and how Ski Haus refused to abide by it, and then said that you would not do business there again, then I think everyone would have been at least somewhat sympathetic.

When you went off about taking them to court, however, and then started flaming others who thought that was going overboard, then you crossed the line...and you should not have been surprised if you got some flames back in return.

I tend to think that, with a few occasional exceptions, people here on AZ are pretty easy going about stuff.


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

hammer said:


> I think you are missing the whole point...
> 
> If all you did was complain about how the deal fell through and how Ski Haus refused to abide by it, and then said that you would not do business there again, then I think everyone would have been at least somewhat sympathetic.
> 
> ...




there was no flaming until I was called a bitch.  Because obviously a woman with a gripe is just a bitch.

FWIW, I haven't ruled out the small claims route, although that would waste even more time that this already has.  And that's MY call, no one here gets to make it for me.


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## abc (Dec 17, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> I am not sure but I though you were a lady?    uke:


Well, you thought wrong.

But she's a "girl" alright. The two aren't the same.


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> And I though I think her language and tone are completely uncalled for, I do think she is within her rights to take her grievances to the internet and elsewhere.



my apologies.  I have a bad habit of stooping as low as my surroundings.

And I thank you for the support.  It is seriously lacking here.


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2009)

hammer said:


> I think you are missing the whole point...
> 
> If all you did was complain about how the deal fell through and how Ski Haus refused to abide by it, and then said that you would not do business there again, then I think everyone would have been at least somewhat sympathetic.
> 
> ...



I think hammer summed it up perfectly. The irony is a very similar thing happened to me with a local shop. I was "promised" a price on some leftover skis, when I went back to close the deal, I was told they were sold which was kind of unbelievable that a pair of long bump skis would just happen to be sold by a shop in CT within a few days of them promising me an unbelievable price. This happened in conjunction with a mis-mount on a pair of skis which the shop did eventual rectify by ordering new skis. I could have very easily called the shop out, but I specifically opted to not slam them publicly here. I guess I'm more easy going...



Swamp Dog said:


> there was no flaming until I was called a bitch.  Because obviously a woman with a gripe is just a bitch.



Well, you were pretty condescending with your tone right from the get-go because you didn't like the responses you were getting. Not deserving of the "bitch" comment I suppose, but neither was your reply and threat to bitch slap him...



Swamp Dog said:


> FWIW, I haven't ruled out the small claims route, although that would waste even more time that this already has.  And that's MY call, no one here gets to make it for me.



That, it is. And you're obviously too stubborn to consider any of our opinions or advice. Not sure what you were expecting by starting all this, but to slander the store so I guess you accomplished that.

Enjoy your ski season.


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 17, 2009)

Pro deals have nothing to do with the ski shop. It's between the customer, the rep and the manufacturer. The pro form has changed alot, most are now a plastic card, in the last couple of years. Many manufacturers require that you go onto to the pro form website, take a test, and how well you do determines your discount. 

Sometimes you do not get the exact item you order, like size, for example. Your basically screwed. One example we had last year. Patroller orders a large Smith Varient helmet, thru the pro form he got from his supervisor and he gets a medium. Comes into the shop complaining. There was nothing we could do for him. If you don't order in the beginning of the season chances are the product you want is not available anymore. Manufacturer/rep inventories are way down this year.

One problem for some manufacturers is that a rep can be part-time and an emplyee at a resort. He/she gives them away the cards like candy and then when the deal goes bad they want the shop to make it good. Again the shop is out of the loop, no dog in the fight.

Alittle off tangent but I just tested the new Scott "Natural Light" goggle lens technology on my Scott Storms. Unbelievable.....truly one lens that works great for both dark, flat and bright sunlight conditions.


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## Highway Star (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> Yes, the Mantra is waaay too much ski for me. I'm just a girl.


 
Well, I'm just curious because the mantra's shortest length is a 170cm, and it's a stiff, heavy ski.  You would probably have to be a 150lb expert skier for it to be a good fit for you, particularly as an east coast ski.  

So what are your specs as a skier, that it would fit you?


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

Greg said:


> Well, you were pretty condescending with your tone right from the get-go because you didn't like the responses you were getting. Not deserving of the "bitch" comment I suppose, but neither was your reply and threat to bitch slap him...



neat.  you can decipher my "tone" from an internet post.  I suppose you deciphered all the others and they were fine.





> That, it is. And you're obviously too stubborn to consider any of our opinions or advice. Not sure what you were expecting by starting all this, but to slander the store so I guess you accomplished that.



opinions and advice.  Unfortunately I did not see anything that I had not already done or considered.  Had something useful been posted, I would have shown the correct amount of appreciation.  To slander implies that facts are incorrect which they are not.[/QUOTE]



> Enjoy your ski season.



I am.  Hope you enjoy yours as well.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 17, 2009)

JD said:


> Assuming the deposite will be refunded...this seems like a non issue..  An emplyee fuct up...get your money back..never shop there again....done deal and their loss.  If they won't give you your money back, THEN there is an issue you SHOULD persue....



It actually boils down our law into pretty basic elements. Would make a good Contracts exam for the first year of law school.

I'm a little rusty, but:

Was there a contract (offer and acceptance of offer)? Yes.

Was consideration (money) paid? Yes, at least partially.

Was the contract breached (goods not delivered?) Seems like it, or at least their was notice given of intent to breach.

So the question becomes one of damages. JD, you may be right, a refund may be sufficient, but this would be a question (absent some statute on point) for a court, generally. There are a lot of different theories of damages. Refund is usually the least friendly to the aggrieved party (the non-breaching party).Perhaps replacement cost (requiring breaching party to pay her the amount it would cost for her to go get the undelivered item on the open market) would be more appropriate here, in order to entitle her to the benefits of her bargain. Of course what she really wants is specific performance: delivery of the skis. 

Failing to refund the money is not an option; at that point, this would cease being a contracts case and become fraud, conversion, or something else that might have a criminal corollary. 

All that said, I went to law school to study dispute resolution, so the above could be off the mark...but on that note, a negotiated settlement seems like a good idea here...perhaps the ski shop can give her a free pair of poles and goggles or something, and everyone will be saved the time and aggravation of small claims court.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 17, 2009)

Greg said:


> The irony is a very similar thing happened to me with a local shop. I was "promised" a price on some leftover skis, when I went back to close the deal, I was told they were sold which was kind of unbelievable that a pair of long bump skis would just happen to be sold by a shop in CT within a few days of them promising me an unbelievable price. This happened in conjunction with a mis-mount on a pair of skis which the shop did eventual rectify by ordering new skis. I could have very easily called the shop out, but I specifically opted to not slam them publicly here. I guess I'm more easy going...



i haven't read the other locked thread or most of this one.... but i see pointing out bad experience @ a shop as a public service.. i want to know who does right and who does wrong by their customers.


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> neat.  you can decipher my "tone" from an internet post.  I suppose you deciphered all the others and they were fine.



Pretty easy to detect when someone is being condescending in an internet post. Here it is again ^^^^^



Swamp Dog said:


> opinions and advice.  Unfortunately I did not see anything that I had not already done or considered.  Had something useful been posted, I would have shown the correct amount of appreciation.  To slander implies that facts are incorrect which they are not.



We suggested just getting your deposit back and moving on with life, and you didn't want to hear that. I still think that's the best move, but you're loving this drama.

Anyway, this is silly. You're gonna do what you're gonna do. Done with this.


----------



## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> Well, I'm just curious because the mantra's shortest length is a 170cm, and it's a stiff, heavy ski.  You would probably have to be a 150lb expert skier for it to be a good fit for you, particularly as an east coast ski.
> 
> So what are your specs as a skier, that it would fit you?



I'm a pretty advanced albeit old and decrepit skier, and more than a few cookies over 150 pounds.

I have a hill literally in my backyard, and can get out almost any time I want.  I skied 6+ days in fresh powder last year and wanted to try something a bit wider underfoot this year.

I was originally looking at the Aura but am not crazy about the graphics and let Bobby talk me into the Mantra.  I don't think I would struggle on it at all.  And if I did, well I could unload them and not take a huge hit at the price I was given  HAHAHAHA


----------



## snafu (Dec 17, 2009)

Maybe because it mostly guys here the problem started off from the beginning - and something that took me years to learn - when women complain they are not asking us for advice or help - they just want us to listen and nod our heads. Swamp dog, you must excuse my fellow men here, we are only trying to fix your problem, we know not what we do sometimes...How about a hug?


----------



## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

Greg said:


> , but you're loving this drama..




yes, I really am.  Now I'm having fun toying with you after being the one being toyed with last night.

I even dropped plenty of f-bombs trying to get you to ban me, and that didn't work.

Obviously I'll get my money and move on.  I don't own a flamethrower.

I suppose I should just take the time and drive to Salem today.  Not skiing as it is 7F and super windy.


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2009)

snafu said:


> Maybe because it mostly guys here the problem started off from the beginning - and something that took me years to learn - when women complain they are not asking us for advice or help - they just want us to listen and nod our heads. Swamp dog, you must excuse my fellow men here, we are only trying to fix your problem, we know not what we do sometimes...How about a hug?



:lol: Nice bit of levity.


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## marcski (Dec 17, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i haven't read the other locked thread or most of this one.... but i see pointing out bad experience @ a shop as a public service.. i want to know who does right and who does wrong by their customers.



I agree with you and I don't think anyone is really slamming her for just posting a rant about a bad experience.  However, when questioned further...and people started to point out a few things...she did get very defensive and became offensive, IMHO.


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

snafu said:


> Maybe because it mostly guys here the problem started off from the beginning - and something that took me years to learn - when women complain they are not asking us for advice or help - they just want us to listen and nod our heads. Swamp dog, you must excuse my fellow men here, we are only trying to fix your problem, we know not what we do sometimes...How about a hug?



awwwww....I think I love you!

I am married to a fix it type guy, so I know the type.

And, that's why we have ski diva.  I go there for my group hugs 

Marc....

I became defensive and downright pissed off when I was called a bitch.  Apparently you missed that.  A woman with a gripe is just a bitch.  I get that.  Some other dear called me Swamp Rat.  Nice.  Name calling is always appropriate.  Still someone else made suppositions based on my screen name.  Brilliant!  Yes, I made the mistake of stooping to DMCs level, and knowing me, I'll probably do it again.

Anyhow, glad to have given everyone something to do last night and today. Spend lots of $$ while you're in Ski Haus today, ok?  I seriously doubt anything I say could hurt them.


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## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i haven't read the other locked thread or most of this one.... but i see pointing out bad experience @ a shop as a public service.. i want to know who does right and who does wrong by their customers.



Read the beginning of the thread...

Her situation was different from just walking in a buying something.  There was other stuff going on..

If you were a ski shop owner - how would you feel it someone plastered the internet ski boards with information like that, and to not have a chance to defend?

She was not letting people know because she was warning...  this was vengeance..  When offered other options - she did not want to hear it and got snotty...  Her intent was to make this shop hurt..  Plain and simple - and frankly - I can't stand by and watch that shti go down.  I and others are friends with shop owners.. We hear first hand how they are almost out of business due to the economy..  it's not cool...

We gotta take care of *our* community..  We have to support *our* community...  We tried to support her..  But she turned away because she was not here to solve a problem...  Only to seek vengeance... 

This whole thing sucks... My ski pants are finally dry...  Time to tele..


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## hammer (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> I am married to a fix it type guy, so I know the type.


I think that's an inherent characteristic of the gender...:wink:

Been married for over 23 years and I still lapse into the fix-it mode most of the time. :roll:


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## Grassi21 (Dec 17, 2009)

dmc said:


> This whole thing sucks... My ski pants are finally dry...  Time to tele..



Dirty hippy.....


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## bvibert (Dec 17, 2009)

Am I the only one who thinks of the Waffle Haus every time they see this thread title?  It's making me hungry for waffles...


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## Glenn (Dec 17, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Am I the only one who thinks of the Waffle Haus every time they see this thread title?  It's making me hungry for waffles...



I grew up in Western Mass so I keep thinking this is a thread about a shop in East Longmeadow.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 17, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Am I the only one who thinks of the Waffle Haus every time they see this thread title?  It's making me hungry for waffles...



no, but you saying that makes me think of a time in life where I lived in a more southerly locale, worked 80s a week, skied very little at crappy mountains and the landscape had wafflehouse cancer as bad as New England has Dunkin' Donuts cancer.  

thanks buddy :lol:


----------



## bvibert (Dec 17, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> no, but you saying that makes me think of a time in life where I lived in a more southerly locale, worked 80s a week, skied very little at crappy mountains and the landscape had wafflehouse cancer as bad as New England has Dunkin' Donuts cancer.
> 
> thanks buddy :lol:



Happy to help.


----------



## Glenn (Dec 17, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> no, but you saying that makes me think of a time in life where I lived in a more southerly locale, worked 80s a week, skied very little at crappy mountains and the landscape had wafflehouse cancer as bad as New England has Dunkin' Donuts cancer.
> 
> thanks buddy :lol:



Oh man! Don't fudge with D&D! I thank the good Lord for D&D every time I get back from traveling. Starbucks is not my cup of tea.


----------



## marcski (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> Marc....
> 
> I became defensive and downright pissed off when I was called a bitch.  Apparently you missed that.  A woman with a gripe is just a bitch.  I get that.  Some other dear called me Swamp Rat.  Nice.  Name calling is always appropriate.  Still someone else made suppositions based on my screen name.  Brilliant!  Yes, I made the mistake of stooping to DMCs level, and knowing me, I'll probably do it again.
> 
> Anyhow, glad to have given everyone something to do last night and today. Spend lots of $$ while you're in Ski Haus today, ok?  I seriously doubt anything I say could hurt them.



Men are from mars women are from venus that is a fact, no doubt.  

With that said...Ms. Swampdog, this was your post that precipitated the bitch comment:

"yeah sure.  Whatever you say.  And thanks for your input, duly noted. "

Before that comment...most of what DMC and Greg and the others were saying was to just cool off a little, its only skis and worst comes to worse you get your money back and start over.  

To me, objectively, your comment was kind of .......bitchy.


----------



## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

marcski said:


> Men are from mars women are from venus that is a fact, no doubt.
> 
> With that said...Ms. Swampdog, this was your post that precipitated the bitch comment:
> 
> ...



Nice, what a great 1500th post :beer:


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Dec 17, 2009)

At our shop customer service is numero uno. We want the customer to be happy with what they have bought and with the experience. If they come back with a problem we will do whatever it takes to solve it. If we cannot then we will refund the purchase. 

If a customer is not happy then they won't be back and will, understandably so, bad mouth the shop. On the web, with friends, on a street corner, it doesn't matter. If they are happy with the purchase and the experience they might be back. I call this smart business. 

It's the foundation of the corny old saying, "the customer is always right". It's ironic but I have noticed when I shop that the level of customer service has improved and it's a result of the poor economy. Out in Vegas the largest resort developement ever, the City Center, is opening. 12,000 jobs available, 175,000 people applied, they interviewed 55,000.

Some shops really push the upsell which can really bite them in the butt down the road. We end every sale with, "if you have any problems or questions, please come back". 

The idea that someone who had a bad experience at a shop and goes on the web complaining is uncool is laughable based on all the threads/posts on the net who do the same thing regarding a myriad of issues. IMHO alot of the neg posts are born from a personal ax to grind whether it's the snow report or the price of a lift ticket. Facts have a way of not being part included with posts like that. 

So what. Everyone has the right to have an opinion and to express it on the net or in a letter to the editor. Is it too corney to still believe in the Patrick Henry quote from back in 1700's? I hope not.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Dec 17, 2009)

snafu said:


> Maybe because it mostly guys here the problem started off from the beginning - and something that took me years to learn - when women complain they are not asking us for advice or help - they just want us to listen and nod our heads.



Hey, this may make my relationship with my wife easier.  Thanks.



bvibert said:


> Am I the only one who thinks of the Waffle Haus every time they see this thread title?  It's making me hungry for waffles...



I was thinking of the Alpine Haus B & B by Mountain Creek in Jersey.  Never stayed there but I drive by it frequently.


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## Puck it (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> Talked with Steve last night. Spoke with Brian last week. With Bobby on the sales floor. Please try to keep your facts straight. I know it's a lot of information for you.
> 
> Yes, the Mantra is waaay too much ski for me. I'm just a girl.
> 
> ...


 
Okay, he must of told why he could not honor the deal.  What was the story then.  All I have heard is ranting.  I know it is hard for you get of the facts straight but try if you are going to slam a shop.


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## severine (Dec 17, 2009)

snafu said:


> Maybe because it mostly guys here the problem started off from the beginning - and something that took me years to learn - when women complain they are not asking us for advice or help - they just want us to listen and nod our heads.


You got it! :beer: Glad someone is paying attention!  We don't want you to find a solution--we want you to be angry with us, we want support.



bvibert said:


> Am I the only one who thinks of the Waffle Haus every time they see this thread title?  It's making me hungry for waffles...


Everything reminds you of food. :roll: BTW, I have more oatmeal craisin white chocolate cookies for you....


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Oh man! Don't fudge with D&D! I thank the good Lord for D&D every time I get back from traveling. Starbucks is not my cup of tea.



Well Glenn, there's you're problem, you're ordering tea at Starbucks!   :lol:


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## WJenness (Dec 17, 2009)

Actualy, the Teas at starbucks are quite delicious.

-w (Not a coffee drinker)


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## deadheadskier (Dec 17, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Oh man! Don't fudge with D&D! I thank the good Lord for D&D every time I get back from traveling. Starbucks is not my cup of tea.



Dunkin Donuts guy myself, can't stand Starbucks.  That said, they're EVERYWHERE.  Even by me in po-dunk NH there are 3 within a quarter mile of each other down the street.


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Okay, he must of told why he could not honor the deal.  What was the story then.  All I have heard is ranting.  I know it is hard for you get of the facts straight but try if you are going to slam a shop.



the facts are pretty basic.  Exactly as I laid out in the OP.  I went in in October.  Saw nice skis, asked about pro pricing.  Was given a price and told I could pick them up when I had my proof of employment.  Paid for half, based on given price.  Bobby went out back, took a wrapped pair, and put my name on it.

Gunstock opened LAST WEEKEND.  I have my employee ID.  Spouse called on Monday and asked them to mount bindings, just as we had discussed in October. Steve called HIM on Tuesday and said we can't have the skis unless he can get another pair from Volkl.  

Steve called AGAIN on Wednesday to say he can't get any, left a message.  We called him back last night and were told for full MSRP they are mine.  He won't let them go for the quoted "pro" pricing.  End of story.  We went round and round.  I promised I'd tell everyone and then some.  I did.

I have a receipt showing full retail price and "pro" price "with Gunstock proof of employment" written on it.

That's all there is to it.  So what am I missing?

Believe me, I no longer want those skis or anything else from them.


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## Puck it (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> the facts are pretty basic. Exactly as I laid out in the OP. I went in in October. Saw nice skis, asked about pro pricing. Was given a price and told I could pick them up when I had my proof of employment. Paid for half, based on given price. Bobby went out back, took a wrapped pair, and put my name on it.
> 
> Gunstock opened LAST WEEKEND. I have my employee ID. Spouse called on Monday and asked them to mount bindings, just as we had discussed in October. Steve called HIM on Tuesday and said we can't have the skis unless he can get another pair from Volkl.
> 
> ...


 
If you mean MSRP of the ski company. I have never seen a pair of skis there for the full price. Their prices are always lower then MSRP. What is the price that you got from them on the original reciept?  I would like to check this out by going there.


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## Glenn (Dec 17, 2009)

LOL Jeff! I actually ordered a medium coffee....and said "medium coffee" when I was in one two years ago. I got a medium coffee....filled to the damn rim. I had to dump some out to add sugar and cream. 

DHS...Ok, phew! As long as your a D&D guy, I won't have to tell the forum what a crappy moderator you are because we disagree.  :lol: ;-)


----------



## mondeo (Dec 17, 2009)

WJenness said:


> Actualy, the Teas at starbucks are quite delicious.
> 
> -w (Not a coffee drinker)


How's their hot chocolate? DD's is decent, but they don't add enough of my favorite hot chocolate ingredient (bourbon.)

(Not a coffee or tea drinker)


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## St. Bear (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> the facts are pretty basic.  Exactly as I laid out in the OP.  I went in in October.  Saw nice skis, asked about pro pricing.  Was given a price and told I could pick them up when I had my proof of employment.  Paid for half, based on given price.  Bobby went out back, took a wrapped pair, and put my name on it.
> 
> Gunstock opened LAST WEEKEND.  I have my employee ID.  Spouse called on Monday and asked them to mount bindings, just as we had discussed in October. Steve called HIM on Tuesday and said we can't have the skis unless he can get another pair from Volkl.
> 
> ...



As someone mentioned earlier, if your original post had been this, most people here would have thought, "Well that sucks.  At least you'll get your $$ back." and that would have been the end of it.  This was a much more rational and coherent telling of the story than last night, it's amazing what a good night's sleep can do.


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## severine (Dec 17, 2009)

mondeo said:


> How's their hot chocolate? DD's is decent, but they don't add enough of my favorite hot chocolate ingredient (bourbon.)
> 
> (Not a coffee or tea drinker)


It's a syrup base and more like dark chocolate, whereas DD's is a powder base. Not as sweet. And yeah, neither includes my favorite: Irish Cream. Or Godvia liqueur.


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## Edd (Dec 17, 2009)

ahem....

I LOVE STARBUCKS COFFEE!

Thank you


----------



## Swamp Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> As someone mentioned earlier, if your original post had been this, most people here would have thought, "Well that sucks.  At least you'll get your $$ back." and that would have been the end of it.  This was a much more rational and coherent telling of the story than last night, it's amazing what a good night's sleep can do.




believe me, I did not have a good night's sleep.  I actually woke up more pissed off then when I went to bed, at posters here, and myself as well.

My OP had nothing but facts.  I did not slander/libel them and was very careful in choosing my words.  Then I let certain posters take me to a dark place. 

Actually, the difference I see is that there are more coherent intelligent people on now than there were last night.


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## Glenn (Dec 17, 2009)

Anyone ever have "Harbucks" or "Tweaks"?


----------



## dmc (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> believe me, I did not have a good night's sleep.  I actually woke up more pissed off then when I went to bed, at posters here, and myself as well.
> 
> My OP had nothing but facts.  I did not slander/libel them and was very careful in choosing my words.  Then I let certain posters take me to a dark place.
> 
> Actually, the difference I see is that there are more coherent intelligent people on now than there were last night.




http://forums.alpinezone.com/showpost.php?p=462438&postcount=11


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## deadheadskier (Dec 17, 2009)

In other news a long study has been reported on the intrawebs confirming that not only cats, but horses have 9 lives as well.  

now back to our regularly scheduled never ending argument.

:dunce:


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## mondeo (Dec 17, 2009)

Edd said:


> ahem....
> 
> I LOVE STARBUCKS COFFEE!
> 
> Thank you


----------



## Edd (Dec 17, 2009)

mondeo said:


>




Well, now I have to have that cup.


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## Trekchick (Dec 17, 2009)

Got Some Baileys for that?


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Got Some Baileys for that?



Now your talking!


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## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Got Some Baileys for that?



You know I never really cared for Baileys, but always kinda liked a little Old Grandad in the cup-o-joe.


----------



## severine (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Got Some Baileys for that?



The kids in my class know that if I show up with a travel mug at class, it's usually coffee + Bailey's. :lol:


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## Trekchick (Dec 17, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> You know I never really cared for Baileys, but always kinda liked a little Old Grandad in the cup-o-joe.


My new fav coffee drink:
Cognac, Khalua, and coffee.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> My new fav coffee drink:
> Cognac, Khalua, and coffee.



Think I'll give 'er a try---sounds good.


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp - After reading your OP you definately have a legit beef. The owner, at the best should have backed the deal that you were offered, at the least, offered to split the diference. 

Lots of possibilities as to why the guy you dealt with made an offer that wouldn't work for the owner. The saleman probably assumed they could get the skis you wanted from the manufacturer but it turned out they could not. He thought you were cute so he wanted to impress you with a deal. He is new so he forgot some important info during training, Hard to know why it happened, doesn't change the fact that your not a happy customer.

Personally, I don't think it's worth the fight and I get the feeling that's actually how you feel as well. Small Claims court is kinda a joke, even if you get a judgement in your favor there is really not anything this court can do to help you get the money. Go to the manufactorers website and there are, hopefully, email and phone customer service info. Since you gave them a downpayment I assume you have something in writing.

Conversly, please consider that your situation might be an anomoly at a shop that does a good job. Ski Shops are under the gun just like everyother retail business out there so I understand why the owner would not want to take the hit. The Ski Market chain out of Mass has closed several shops.

Happy turns


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## Trekchick (Dec 17, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> My new fav coffee drink:
> Cognac, Khalua, and coffee.





campgottagopee said:


> Think I'll give 'er a try---sounds good.


True story:
At ESA Stowe, the bartender at the Trapp Family Lodge put an extra shot of cognac in the this drink for me and Cgeib and said,  "I know that the two of you are the leaders in this group.  If I put you out, I get to go home on time"
I laughed!!!

FWIW, the Trapp is not used to a group like ours that hangs around talking into the wee hours.


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## Grassi21 (Dec 17, 2009)

I make my own khalua.  i usually use 100 proof vodka in it.  3 cups vodka, 3 cups brown sugar, 3 cups of strong coffee, and a vanilla bean that is split down the middle.  let it sit at least 1 week preferably more.  add a couple of drops of glycerin to give it some viscosity.  great for just doing shots.  nice little caffeine boost as well.  think i'm gonna make some this evening....


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## severine (Dec 17, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> I make my own khalua.  i usually use 100 proof vodka in it.  3 cups vodka, 3 cups brown sugar, 3 cups of strong coffee, and a vanilla bean that is split down the middle.  let it sit at least 1 week preferably more.  add a couple of drops of glycerin to give it some viscosity.  great for just doing shots.  nice little caffeine boost as well.  think i'm gonna make some this evening....


Thanks for the recipe! I have a few vanilla beans in the cabinet and haven't found the perfect use for them yet.


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## Grassi21 (Dec 17, 2009)

severine said:


> Thanks for the recipe! I have a few vanilla beans in the cabinet and haven't found the perfect use for them yet.



you could even steep the vanilla bean in the 3 cups of water and then use the vanilla water for your coffee.  only problem is a slight vanilla taste in your morning coffee for a bit.  i also brew the coffee and then run it through the same grinds a second time to intensify the flavor.

ps - stick it in old booze bottle or find a growler... i'll dig up a pic.  this thread is so much better now. :beer:


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## andyzee (Dec 17, 2009)

Never knew about Ski Haus, but now, the next time I"m in NH, I'll be sure to visit.


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## Puck it (Dec 17, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Never knew about Ski Haus, but now, the next time I"m in NH, I'll be sure to visit.


 

I am 15 minutes away.  I would take you there and introduce you.  Good people.


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## hrstrat57 (Dec 17, 2009)

Interesting thread.

In my PSIA days I pro formed 2 pair of skis a year. I was on snow up to 100 days a year and needed the skis to work. Plus my weapon of choice at the time was primarily Rossi 4SK, I would literally wear out one pair and put the 2nd into action near the end of the season. The sandwich construction didn't hold up...but when new they were a dream and I got em cheap so what the heck. I switched to Olins near the end of my teaching days...RTS, DTSL and DSK and they held up much better...towards the end once I switched to Olin I only grabbed 1 pair a year.  I bought 1 pair of boots each year too...I am on my final 2 pair of Tecnica Explosion 8's now.... 

I still have one mint pair of Rossi 4SK 203's in the basement BTW....

Fact is, things must be quite different now. The 2 shops I dealt with along with my other SS buds both said any discussion of pro form with customers blew the deal.

Further I recall having a shop reneg on a pro form deal more than once for the exact reason in this thread......I moved on and scammed my boards somewhere else on those occasions. 

The shops agreed to play pro form because I sent them a lot of biz.....but had I told anyone I got skis on the cheap there would have been hell to pay.

Now we're blasting pro form talk all over AZ.

I guess things have changed.

FWIW if the purpose of pro form is to get a deal for a ski you need to take to line up for teaching purposes in New England is the Mantra an appropriate ski for pro form anyway? I would think not, but again....things have changed I guess.

Please continue, very interesting.

Happy holidays folks:beer:


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## riverc0il (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....


Wow. You are the one that posted about it on the internet. If you don't want people to comment on your situation, don't post on the internet... especially if you are not prepared for other people to disagree with you.

No need for the F bombs either, you are only escalating the problem by being hostile. There are a lot of people loyal to Ski Haus that are just saying that the shop is very reputable and it seems like it is possible the shop may have had a valid reason for doing what they did and in fact YES we do not know all the details because they have not been presented in a completely unbiased way by both parties involved.


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## riverc0il (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> neat.  you can decipher my "tone" from an internet post.  I suppose you deciphered all the others and they were fine.


Communication is what others perceived your said/wrote, not what you intended. Tone is what is heard, not what is intended...


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## riverc0il (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> the facts are pretty basic.  Exactly as I laid out in the OP.  I went in in October.  Saw nice skis, asked about pro pricing.  Was given a price and told I could pick them up when I had my proof of employment.  Paid for half, based on given price.  Bobby went out back, took a wrapped pair, and put my name on it.
> 
> Gunstock opened LAST WEEKEND.  I have my employee ID.  Spouse called on Monday and asked them to mount bindings, just as we had discussed in October. Steve called HIM on Tuesday and said we can't have the skis unless he can get another pair from Volkl.
> 
> ...


If that last statement was genuine, here is my thoughts (as a retail store manager). You ordered a "pro pricing" version of a particular ski. The shop could not get that version of the ski and considered it Out of Stock. So the quote is null and void because they could not fulfill your request. It seems to me that a Pro Priced ski and a full retail ski should be considered two different items. I don't work in ski retail, but I do work in regular retail and bulk discounts are often allowed at my discretion for folks doing special orders in bulk. I don't price discounts below cost if I can't get a good discount on the bulk to pass along. It seems like this is a good parallel. They could not get the discounted item, they could not get the discount, so they could not pass it along. You may choose not to accept that as legitimate, but it seems legit from my perspective. You were not quoted a regular discount on a full priced ski but rather a pro discount that they could not get for you. I just don't see where they let you down, they just were not able to get the pro priced ski from what you are saying as the facts.


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## andyzee (Dec 17, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> since none of you know the fucking details of what happened when I first went to Ski Haus, nor do you really care to know, why don't you all just shut the fuck up.  It's way more fun to bash me when you don't know shit, so have at it.
> 
> Bunch of fucking tools.....


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 17, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> If that last statement was genuine, here is my thoughts (as a retail store manager). You ordered a "pro pricing" version of a particular ski. The shop could not get that version of the ski and considered it Out of Stock. So the quote is null and void because they could not fulfill your request. It seems to me that a Pro Priced ski and a full retail ski should be considered two different items. I don't work in ski retail, but I do work in regular retail and bulk discounts are often allowed at my discretion for folks doing special orders in bulk. I don't price discounts below cost if I can't get a good discount on the bulk to pass along. It seems like this is a good parallel. They could not get the discounted item, they could not get the discount, so they could not pass it along. You may choose not to accept that as legitimate, but it seems legit from my perspective. You were not quoted a regular discount on a full priced ski but rather a pro discount that they could not get for you. I just don't see where they let you down, they just were not able to get the pro priced ski from what you are saying as the facts.



If the deal was offered with conditions like, "if we can get it" I would agree with you but according to the OP that was not done. Just quoting a price, as you say, would not be a problem but making a deal and taking a deposit is another story IMHO. Swamp is not out any money but in my mind the shop failed in meeting the customers expectations. Even just an apology from the owner would go along way here. Business owners apologize for staff screw-ups all the time. 

Course, this is totally only one side of the story so that's what I'm going on and would not be totally shocked if I ended up with egg on my face. 

This season we are carrying some really nice new Leki Alpine poles with straps that quick release when you fall. Last weekend a guy comes in and buys a pair, plus goggles for his kids. He comes back cause he forgot to mention he has lifters on his bindings so he needed longer poles. He also had a crash in the deep powder and the straps released and one came off his wrist and he couldn't find it. He was vey apologetic even offered to pay for the strap. I exchanged the poles and that was basically it. He was kind of blown away. We can get extra straps from the rep to replace the one he lost and I think others might be losing their straps with these poles so we will have a few extra on hand. The customer was thrilled and we weren't out anything maybe even gained a returning customer.

People come in with broken helmet straps, the ones in the back for your goggle strap. We have extra's and replace them, free of charge. Guest Services has one of those portable battery charger/starters. If someone in the parking lot needs a jump, no problem, no charge. It's all about exceeding customer expectations.


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## andyzee (Dec 18, 2009)

With her crappy attitude,* I'm not sure how much of her story I believe*. She obviously had an agenda to discredit this shop and when it didn't work, well, you saw what she turned into.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 18, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> If the deal was offered with conditions like, "if we can get it" I would agree with you but according to the OP that was not done. Just quoting a price, as you say, would not be a problem but making a deal and taking a deposit is another story IMHO. Swamp is not out any money but in my mind the shop failed in meeting the customers expectations. Even just an apology from the owner would go along way here. Business owners apologize for staff screw-ups all the time.
> 
> Course, this is totally only one side of the story so that's what I'm going on and would not be totally shocked if I ended up with egg on my face.
> 
> ...



I agree with what you are saying, customer service is KEY in todays econoimy. However, this "customer" didn't give the shop any chance to correct this "issue". Nope, nada, zip---just started telling everyone what bad people they are, gonna take them to court, blah, blah, blah. Don't blame the shop if the tell her to go piss up a rope after this one. Some deals are better off not being done.


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## Swamp Dog (Dec 18, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I agree with what you are saying, customer service is KEY in todays econoimy. However, this "customer" didn't give the shop any chance to correct this "issue". Nope, nada, zip---just started telling everyone what bad people they are, gonna take them to court, blah, blah, blah.


 
so you know what was said in our conversations now?  As does everyone else hear making assumptions here I see.

You're a little late to the party but have fun anyhow.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 18, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> so you know what was said in our conversations now?  As does everyone else hear making assumptions here I see.
> 
> You're a little late to the party but have fun anyhow.



Not late, just not that interested. Not much can/could be accomplished on the phone, never works. It's only an hour away---you could've gone down there and worked things out....just sayin'


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 18, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> so you know what was said in our conversations now?  As does everyone else hear making assumptions here I see.
> 
> You're a little late to the party but have fun anyhow.



Well unfortunately I got my hand slapped, cuz of foul language so you didn't get to see my very quality point in which I tell you basically to shut the f up.

Bottom line is you came on here trying to smear a ski shop that many have had very positive experiences with, you thought people were going to be like lemmings and follow you in your crusade, you thought that people on here didn't have opinions of there own, etc, well you were very wrong.  Me I have never been there, so I have no dog in the fight.  One thing I can comment on is that you come off like a very rude and hot headed jackass.  So even though I may agree with you on some of your points and would have been ticked, your credibility is shot because of how you come off.  So live with it, for you to expect everyone on here to agree with you and take your side and take your word as gospel is neive, afterall nobody knows who you are expcept for your negative first impression, and many know the owners of the Ski Haus and have had positive experiences, I think it's easy to understand why people might not be catchin what your throwin.  At the end of the day does anybody's opinion on here really matter..sounds like you've got your mind made up, go to court enjoy your day, but don't post here when your ticked that the judge ruled for the Ski Haus.


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## Beetlenut (Dec 18, 2009)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Well unfortunately I got my hand slapped, cuz of foul language so you didn't get to see my very quality point in which I tell you basically to shut the f up.


 
I did!  Too bad you got censored!


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## mondeo (Dec 18, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> so you know what was said in our conversations now? As does everyone else hear making assumptions here I see.
> 
> You're a little late to the party but have fun anyhow.


Only assumption I'm making is that there are two sides to every story.

If you were being rational at all, there would be people backing you up. I'd do it just for a chance to argue with DMC (I kid, I kid.) But one vs. everybody is a pretty strong indicator that the one is the irrational party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutory_delusions


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## o3jeff (Dec 18, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> If that last statement was genuine, here is my thoughts (as a retail store manager). You ordered a "pro pricing" version of a particular ski. The shop could not get that version of the ski and considered it Out of Stock. So the quote is null and void because they could not fulfill your request. It seems to me that a Pro Priced ski and a full retail ski should be considered two different items. I don't work in ski retail, but I do work in regular retail and bulk discounts are often allowed at my discretion for folks doing special orders in bulk. I don't price discounts below cost if I can't get a good discount on the bulk to pass along. It seems like this is a good parallel. They could not get the discounted item, they could not get the discount, so they could not pass it along. You may choose not to accept that as legitimate, but it seems legit from my perspective. You were not quoted a regular discount on a full priced ski but rather a pro discount that they could not get for you. I just don't see where they let you down, they just were not able to get the pro priced ski from what you are saying as the facts.



Good post like usual

From what I can figure out from reading this is that Proform is usually between the end user and the manufacturers rep and is on a first come first served basis. Sound like the shop was doing you a favor by offering you this deal and being the middleman without proof that you qualified for it besied your word. You finally get your proof of employment to be eligible for the program and let them know to get and mount the skis. Being mid December the proform stock has depleted and now you expect the shop to give you a pair off the floor.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 18, 2009)

hrstrat57 said:


> .I am on my final 2 pair of Tecnica Explosion 8's now....



Those were recalled I beleive. Bad plastic, my cuff cracked on a really cold day. Just came apart. Not sure if you can get anything for a late 90's boot now, but you might want to contact Technica for the hell of it.


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## Geoff (Dec 18, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> Swamp - After reading your OP you definately have a legit beef. The owner, at the best should have backed the deal that you were offered, at the least, offered to split the diference.
> 
> Lots of possibilities as to why the guy you dealt with made an offer that wouldn't work for the owner. The saleman probably assumed they could get the skis you wanted from the manufacturer but it turned out they could not. He thought you were cute so he wanted to impress you with a deal. He is new so he forgot some important info during training, Hard to know why it happened, doesn't change the fact that your not a happy customer.
> 
> ...



There's a big difference between *October* and the Christmas rush.   If I were the shop owner and stumbled across this thread, I'd ban the person from my store for life.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 18, 2009)

I know of many people who have gotten proform stuff off of the shop wall, so the shop saying that Vokl does not allow that is not true.

If the shop does not allow this to happen, then the should not be allowing there employees to sell it off the wall for the price and take a deposit on it.  If the shop makes the agreement, and takes money they should be honoring the deal.

Who cares if all of you have always had great experience with this particular shop.  She has not, and wants to warn people about a non satisfactory experience with them.  If all of the information she has posted here is correct, then it is good to know of a shop that does not honor their word.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 18, 2009)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Who cares if all of you have always had great experience with this particular shop.  She has not, and wants to warn people about a non satisfactory experience with them.  If all of the information she has posted here is correct, then it is good to know of a shop that does not honor their word.



I think that boils it down for me. 

What would be the point of coming to the internet and posting falsities anyway?


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## dmc (Dec 18, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> I think that boils it down for me.
> 
> What would be the point of coming to the internet and posting falsities anyway?



Revenge


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## andyzee (Dec 18, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> I think that boils it down for me.
> 
> What would be the point of coming to the internet and posting falsities anyway?



Yeah, no one would do something like that.


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## WJenness (Dec 18, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Yeah, no one would do something like that.



Yeah, it'd be like... oh ... i don't know... someone chainsawing a couch to get it out of their living room...

Just wouldn't happen.
:beer::beer:

-w


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## mondeo (Dec 18, 2009)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I know of many people who have gotten proform stuff off of the shop wall, so the shop saying that Vokl does not allow that is not true.
> 
> If the shop does not allow this to happen, then the should not be allowing there employees to sell it off the wall for the price and take a deposit on it. If the shop makes the agreement, and takes money they should be honoring the deal.
> 
> Who cares if all of you have always had great experience with this particular shop. She has not, and wants to warn people about a non satisfactory experience with them. If all of the information she has posted here is correct, then it is good to know of a shop that does not honor their word.


The problem isn't that she spread the word, it's that she was (to the judgement of many) way too upset over something she'd get the deposit back on anyways, and then when other people said as much she flipped out on them. It's the flipping out, not the information, that's at issue.

If it were juse someone posting a bad experience with a shop, then others relaying good experiences with the same shop, it would've been a one page thread. That's how it should work, and one of the best uses of the internet - sharing information.


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## Geoff (Dec 18, 2009)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I know of many people who have gotten proform stuff off of the shop wall, so the shop saying that Vokl does not allow that is not true.



So you're saying that somebody who arranges to buy pro form gear in October and doesn't follow through for 2 months is somehow entitled to strip a ski shop of inventory at a loss during the Christmas rush?   Puh-lease.  If it's a popular ski in short supply, the shop would have to be totally stupid to do that.   WTF is wrong with getting your ducks lined up pre-season to get all your deals?   That's what everybody else does.


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## andyzee (Dec 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> So you're saying that somebody who arranges to buy pro form gear in October and doesn't follow through for 2 months is somehow entitled to strip a ski shop of inventory at a loss during the Christmas rush?   Puh-lease.  If it's a popular ski in short supply, the shop would have to be totally stupid to do that.   WTF is wrong with getting your ducks lined up pre-season to get all your deals?   That's what everybody else does.



She's special.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> So you're saying that somebody who arranges to buy pro form gear in October and doesn't follow through for 2 months is somehow entitled to strip a ski shop of inventory at a loss during the Christmas rush?   Puh-lease.  If it's a popular ski in short supply, the shop would have to be totally stupid to do that.   WTF is wrong with getting your ducks lined up pre-season to get all your deals?   That's what everybody else does.



The shop told her to come in as soon as she had the proof of employment from the mtn.  I dont know if you remember the very late opening that mtns have had this year, but it happened.  I know the employees at the mtn I work at did not get there ID's till later than last year.
And yes, if the shop had agreed to the price and taken deposit I do think they should still have to honor the price.  The only way is if the paper work said that it must be completed within a certain number of days.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 18, 2009)

What I find interesting here is that most of the Retail folks are coming out on the side of Swampy. Tells me what happened is pretty sketchy. 

Things only went downhill when she didn't react well to differing opinions. Which might be an indication on why the shop didn't feel like working things out with her. Get more with sugar and all that ...


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> What I find interesting here is that most of the Retail folks are coming out on the side of Swampy. Tells me what happened is pretty sketchy.
> 
> Things only went downhill when she didn't react well to differing opinions. Which might be an indication on why the shop didn't feel like working things out with her. Get more with sugar and all that ...



pretty much how I see it.


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## Edd (Dec 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> pretty much how I see it.




Ditto


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## campgottagopee (Dec 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> What I find interesting here is that most of the Retail folks are coming out on the side of Swampy. Tells me what happened is pretty sketchy.
> 
> Things only went downhill when she didn't react well to differing opinions. Which might be an indication on why the shop didn't feel like working things out with her. Get more with sugar and all that ...



We'll never know for sure until we hear both sides of the story---hopefully Puckit will fill us in.


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## Geoff (Dec 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> What I find interesting here is that most of the Retail folks are coming out on the side of Swampy. Tells me what happened is pretty sketchy.
> 
> Things only went downhill when she didn't react well to differing opinions. Which might be an indication on why the shop didn't feel like working things out with her. Get more with sugar and all that ...



Like I said, if I owned a shop and somebody pulled this stunt, they wouldn't be doing business with me ever again.   I'd also do whatever I could to get them forever banned from all the pro form lists.  If I were Volkl, I wouldn't want somebody like that using my gear.... too likely it would blow up in my face.   I can just see the pulled edge poaching something where they discover that pro form gear carrys no warranty that creates the "don't do business with Volkl" thread.   It's the Christmas rush, for Christ sake.   Nobody is going to give away their gear at a loss now.


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## dmc (Dec 18, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> We'll never know for sure until we hear both sides of the story---hopefully Puckit will fill us in.



yup....


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## wa-loaf (Dec 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Like I said, if I owned a shop and somebody pulled this stunt, they wouldn't be doing business with me ever again.   I'd also do whatever I could to get them forever banned from all the pro form lists.  If I were Volkl, I wouldn't want somebody like that using my gear.... too likely it would blow up in my face.   I can just see the pulled edge poaching something where they discover that pro form gear carrys no warranty that creates the "don't do business with Volkl" thread.   It's the Christmas rush, for Christ sake.   Nobody is going to give away their gear at a loss now.



Yea, but this is all post event. I don't really know how the initial conversation went, although probably much like the initial thread. But until you get to that point, it sure looks to me that the shop f-ed up.


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## andyzee (Dec 18, 2009)

I wonder how much publicity Ski Haus is getting out of this  Can you say backfire?


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## dmc (Dec 18, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I wonder how much publicity Ski Haus is getting out of this  Can you say backfire?



  Go Skiing!!!!


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## mondeo (Dec 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Yea, but this is all post event. I don't really know how the initial conversation went, although probably much like the initial thread. But until you get to that point, it sure looks to me that the shop f-ed up.


I'm guessing the shop probably could've handled it better. But with the attitude she started this whole mess with, I'm guessing she chould've handled it better, too. At the very least, I'm not accepting her words at face value. Most people who feel they've been wronged drop out details that can change the story quite a bit. Not on purpose, they just seem inconsequential to the irate party. I've been there myself, enough that I've learned to question where I went wrong first.


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## Geoff (Dec 18, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I'm guessing the shop probably could've handled it better. But with the attitude she started this whole mess with, I'm guessing she chould've handled it better, too. At the very least, I'm not accepting her words at face value. Most people who feel they've been wronged drop out details that can change the story quite a bit. Not on purpose, they just seem inconsequential to the irate party. I've been there myself, enough that I've learned to question where I went wrong first.



....and this is over a stinkin' pro form deal that got delayed until the manufacturer ran out of inventory.  A "real" employee working for a "real" resort would get their pro form deal through the resort.   I'm sure the shop owner did a "WTF have these been sitting here for 7 weeks?  Put 'em back in stock.   This isn't a charity."    You snooze, you lose.   In small claims court, the judge is just going to throw it out.   If I owned Ski Haus, I'd blackball the person so they can never again participate in any pro form deals.


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## Puck it (Dec 18, 2009)

I am going up to Salem tomorrow and see if I can get the other side of the story.  I was going to go tonight but wife wanted dinner in North Andover.


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## WJenness (Dec 18, 2009)

Puck it said:


> I am going up to Salem tomorrow and see if I can get the other side of the story.  I was going to go tonight but wife wanted dinner in North Andover.



Joe Fish?

-w


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## Bumpsis (Dec 18, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I wonder how much publicity Ski Haus is getting out of this  Can you say backfire?



I'm not sure I'd want this kind of publicity. Looks to me like the shop reneged on a deal. As a consumer, from my stand point, it's just good to be aware.
On the other hand, this whole thing just means diddly squat to me. I never heard of a pro form deal. Now that I know what it is, it's clear that this out a the realm of conventional retail, which I'm sure that the shop does well and fair.
Overall, nothing to blow a gasket about or call people names (like "bitch" for instance).


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## Puck it (Dec 18, 2009)

WJenness said:


> Joe Fish?
> 
> -w


 

Near there.  

The Loft.  First time there.


----------



## hrstrat57 (Dec 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Those were recalled I beleive. Bad plastic, my cuff cracked on a really cold day. Just came apart. Not sure if you can get anything for a late 90's boot now, but you might want to contact Technica for the hell of it.



LOL! I got a thread around here or on epicski maybe from last year with pics.....I had my third pair blow up on Hitchcock at wa last year....I dripped orange plastic all the way back to my seat in the lodge.....

Since Tecnica was kind enuff to set me up through my shop on pro form I wouldn't have even thought about complaining.....

My last 2 pair remain solid but I am truly terrified about having to switch to another boot....seriously terrified.

Poach off, carry on.


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## redalienx11 (Dec 19, 2009)

bringin pro form shenanigans to the internet is no bueno.
sucks that OP had issues with pro deal shat.
sucks that a ski shop got involved it.


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## rtibbs4 (Dec 19, 2009)

I have always bought from ski haus and never had a problem. Great prices and tax free. Can't beat it.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 19, 2009)

Puck it said:


> I am going up to Salem tomorrow and see if I can get the other side of the story.  I was going to go tonight but wife wanted dinner in North Andover.



Well .... ?


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## Puck it (Dec 19, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Well .... ?


 

Did not get up today.  Other things came up with the fam and wife's car problem.  Will try tomorrow on the way home from Cannon. Sorry.


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## Philpug (Dec 19, 2009)

From Fight Club...

The first rule of Proform skis is that you don't talk about proform skis.

That said....

Proform skis are a privilege NOT a right, shops do NOT have to honor proform requests. These skis are not supposed to be taken out of stock, they are to be special ordered ONCE all paperwork and requirements are made. You take what you can get, skis Do get sold out. I refused or substituted more pro-form skis than I was able to fill this year. It SOUNDS like the shop did not handle this in the best possible way, but until I hear their side. Not to be smart, maybe I missed it, Swamp, what is your position at the ski area, is it a position that entitles you to a significant discount of ski products? Either way, airing this publicly is one of the reasons that it is tougher and tougher for forms getting in the hands of the right people.


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## hrstrat57 (Dec 20, 2009)

Philpug said:


> The first rule of Proform skis is that you don't talk about proform skis.
> 
> Proform skis are a privilege NOT a right, shops do NOT have to honor proform requests. These skis are not supposed to be taken out of stock, they are to be special ordered ONCE all paperwork and requirements are made. Either way, airing this publicly is one of the reasons that it is tougher and tougher for forms getting in the hands of the right people.



If this is true, then things haven't changed.

Talking about pro form and comp tix and shop form etc and various other deals avail to folks who mostly work hard in the industry to make the sport better for their guests was discouraged.

One has to wonder what motivates a shop to even participate in pro form.

Unless they are rock solid certain that the deal will be confidential, what is in it for the shop?


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## DPhelan (Dec 20, 2009)

was the person that started this whole thing actually employed at the time the proform was placed?


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## Geoff (Dec 21, 2009)

hrstrat57 said:


> If this is true, then things haven't changed.
> 
> Talking about pro form and comp tix and shop form etc and various other deals avail to folks who mostly work hard in the industry to make the sport better for their guests was discouraged.
> 
> ...



I'll bet the owner and/or manager of the shop had no clue it was going on.   Some employee probably offered up the deal.  After 6 or 7 weeks with a pair of high end skis sitting in the back still in the shrink wrap and with the Christmas rush looming, the employee who offered up the pro form deal out of inventory got caught and spanked.   I don't see how any ski shop should be in any way ethically bound to stand behind a pro form side deal gone sour.


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## severine (Dec 21, 2009)

167 posts and there is yet to be an actual, first-hand defense from the ski shop that so many were determined to fight to the death over... Where's their side?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 21, 2009)

If the threat of legal action against my shop was there, I'd resist comment.


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## marcski (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> 167 posts and there is yet to be an actual, first-hand defense from the ski shop that so many were determined to fight to the death over... Where's their side?



Yeah why would they....other than swampthing, this thread only generated posts that contain positive feedback about the shop and others that say they are going in there to check it out.   

Seems like the shop's prior goodwill will get them through swampthing's bad experience with flying colors.  

(ps. i've never been!).


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## Geoff (Dec 21, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> If the threat of legal action against my shop was there, I'd resist comment.



+1

...until after the day in small claims court.   I'd then explain my side and invoke an industry-wide ban against somebody who would abuse the whole pro form thing this way.   The Fight Club analogy was quite appropriate.   If you are an insider, you don't talk about comp and steep discount deals not available to the general public.   

If I were the shop owner, I'd also be pretty pissed at the employee.


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## Geoff (Dec 21, 2009)

marcski said:


> Yeah why would they....other than swampthing, this thread only generated posts that contain positive feedback about the shop and others that say they are going in there to check it out.
> 
> Seems like the shop's prior goodwill will get them through swampthing's bad experience with flying colors.
> 
> (ps. i've never been!).



I used to do business with them years ago.  A close friend of mine has a son who worked there part time until he took off to do the ski bum thing in Utah.  For a flatland shop, I thought they always had good prices.


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## severine (Dec 21, 2009)

I just find it somewhat funny (not in the ha ha way) that dmc was in such a hurry to tattle to the shop about what was said about them so they could come on here and defend themselves (of which I thought was the purpose of this thread) and yet....nothing of that sort has occurred.


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> I just find it somewhat funny (not in the ha ha way) that dmc was in such a hurry to tattle to the shop about what was said about them so they could come on here and defend themselves (of which I thought was the purpose of this thread) and yet....nothing of that sort has occurred.



And I think it's funny that you take her side unconditionally because she's a woman..  Actually i funny is not the word I'd use...  But I promised to be civil...

Did I tattle?  No - I wanted to hear their side...   And PuckIt was going to drop by..  and he is so just relax....  

Why is it so bad to defend my sport?   
Is it so bad to try to get the other side of the story?

Are you on her side cause shes a "diva"?   

Do you just allow any woman carte blanche to say whatever venom they wish to spew at the risk of a ski shop?

Now I'm laughing even harder...  :razz: :razz: :razz:


----------



## andyzee (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> I just find it somewhat funny (not in the ha ha way) that dmc was in such a hurry to tattle to the shop about what was said about them so they could come on here and defend themselves (of which I thought was the purpose of this thread) and yet....nothing of that sort has occurred.




He can put it out there, but perhaps if the shop is even aware of it, they do not feel they need to come on to the almight alpinezone to defend themselves. I do not believe that  DMC is employed by the shop, therefore, really can't speak for them. :roll:


----------



## Puck it (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> I just find it somewhat funny (not in the ha ha way) that dmc was in such a hurry to tattle to the shop about what was said about them so they could come on here and defend themselves (of which I thought was the purpose of this thread) and yet....nothing of that sort has occurred.


 

I have not gotten up there yet. I think this should not be discussed on the phone with the owner. I should definitely be up there this week for my liquor run to avoid the MA tax. I will stop in then.

BTW - The reason that I did not stop last night.  Spent too much time in the new pub at Cannon and then had to snowblow the driveway.


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

andyzee said:


> He can put it out there, but perhaps if the shop is even aware of it, they do not feel they need to come on to the almight alpinezone to defend themselves. Just cause DMC felt the need doesn't mean the shop did. :roll:



She'd much rather see me look like an ass then see a ski shop survive a recession..  

so sad...


----------



## severine (Dec 21, 2009)

dmc said:


> And I think it's funny that you take her side unconditionally because she's a woman..  Actually i funny is not the word I'd use...  But I promised to be civil...
> 
> Did I tattle?  No - I wanted to hear their side...   And PuckIt was going to drop by..  and he is so just relax....
> 
> ...


Sweetie... I didn't take anybody's "side" in this situation; I think you're _both_ being childish and immature. Your assumptions tell a lot about you, though. :lol: 

Since you made such a big deal about having the whole picture, I'm curious about it... and why we haven't heard it yet. That is all. I have been wronged by ski shops before and I can assure you that had you taken the stance with me that you took with Swamp Dog, I'd be pretty pissed off. I am also sure that if you were on here complaining about something and everybody attacked you the same way she was, you'd take your ball and go home in your general fashion. I don't like how the situation was handled on either side, but I would like to know what happened.

And BTW, grand poobah of exaggerations, one message on a ski forum will not ruin a ski shop. So you can stop fighting under that banner... :roll:


----------



## marcski (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> Sweetie... I didn't take anybody's "side" in this situation; I think you're _both_ being childish and immature. Your assumptions tell a lot about you, though. :lol:
> 
> Since you made such a big deal about having the whole picture, I'm curious about it... and why we haven't heard it yet. That is all. I have been wronged by ski shops before and I can assure you that had you taken the stance with me that you took with Swamp Dog, I'd be pretty pissed off. I am also sure that if you were on here complaining about something and everybody attacked you the same way she was, you'd take your ball and go home in your general fashion. I don't like how the situation was handled on either side, but I would like to know what happened.
> 
> And BTW, grand poobah of exaggerations, one message on a ski forum will not ruin a ski shop. So you can stop fighting under that banner... :roll:


Men are from Mars and women from Venus. No one attacked Swampdog until her defensive and quite I think DMC rightfully charachterized reactions to posts by various male AZ'ers.


----------



## severine (Dec 21, 2009)

marcski said:


> Men are from Mars and women from Venus. No one attacked Swampdog until her defensive and quite I think DMC rightfully charachterized reactions to posts by various male AZ'ers.



So you're justifying it because she was quick to the draw? Like I said, I don't think either was in the right there. What continued was just childish taunting on both sides...


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> So you're justifying it because she was quick to the draw?



yes - yes - I am...

Support the industry...


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> And BTW, grand poobah of exaggerations, one message on a ski forum will not ruin a ski shop. So you can stop fighting under that banner... :roll:



I'm really holding back calling you a name now...   But I will show respect.

Again... I know guys that own shops that are living from deal 2 deal...    Is it an exaggeration?  no...  it's true...  
And with all the pitchfork/torch people here... It could mean less business when they pile on...   

I did what i did... I'd do it again...   Sweetie...


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

marcski said:


> Men are from Mars and women from Venus. No one attacked Swampdog until her defensive and quite I think DMC rightfully charachterized reactions to posts by various male AZ'ers.



She's got it out for me...  I don't even know why we respond to her ... 

I was only trying to put a stop to that freight train..  I did... mission accomplished..


----------



## Puck it (Dec 21, 2009)

BTW- Swamp Dog did PM'ed last week and wanted to know how far I lived from the shop.  I responded but did not here back from her.


----------



## catskills (Dec 21, 2009)

For the record, I like Ski Haus and often recommend them to my friends.  They always have competitive prices on skis and they are very knowledgeable.  

Shops are not required to do Pro Form deals. Some shops offer them and some shops don't.  After seeing this rant on the internet, I would suspect Ski Haus and many other shops may reconsider offering Pro Forms in the future.  Part of the deal of the Professional courtesy of a Pro Form is not to discuss the deals in public.  I would think by posting on the internet that would make your Pro Form deal null and void.  Also note that Pro Form deals are only to be used for the professional and not their spouse, children, parents, grandparents, or friends.  If your not the professional then you are NOT entitled to the Pro Form price. 

Rants like this on the internet are not going to help anyone. 

If they offer you your deposit back take it and prey for a powder day when you can forget all this trivial stuff.   Be happy and enjoy life.


----------



## abc (Dec 21, 2009)

catskills said:


> Also note that Pro Form deals are only to be used for the professional and not their spouse, children, parents, grandparents, or friends.  If your not the professional then you are NOT entitled to the Pro Form price.


I hope you are not implying she's just a spouse because she's a woman...

I can't help to notice the emphasis. But perhaps that's not intentional.


----------



## catskills (Dec 21, 2009)

abc said:


> I hope you are not implying she's just a spouse because she's a woman...
> 
> I can't help to notice the emphasis. But perhaps that's not intentional.


Absolutely not. I had no emphasis.  I clearly stated, "spouse, children, parents, grandparents, or friends"  People try to get PRO form deals all the time when they shouldn't get them. Its designed only for the professional. Many times children try to get PRO form deals because one or both of their parents is the professional.  If Ski Haus found out the person trying to get a PRO form deal was not the professional, Ski Haus is required to cancel the deal and refund the deposit.


----------



## Greg (Dec 21, 2009)

Are we really still talking about this?


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 21, 2009)

catskills said:


> Absolutely not. I had no emphasis.  I clearly stated, "spouse, children, parents, grandparents, or friends"  People try to get PRO form deals all the time when they shouldn't get them. Its designed only for the professional. Many times children try to get PRO form deals because one or both of their parents is the professional.  If Ski Haus found out the person trying to get a PRO form deal was not the professional, Ski Haus is required to cancel the deal and refund the deposit.



Going on the basis that she speaks the truth, which we have no reason she isn't, she went in there got setup and is employed by Gunstock and was waiting for her badge/employee pass.  Even though I have stated her attitude sucked, the shop is at fault more so then her in regards to the finger pointing.  They took her money as down payment, and tucked them away for her, granted she waited forever, but I would be curious if the sales person gave her a time limit, etc.  All that being said, I am guessing (although a peepee move) the shop can void it if they so choose.  However I am not involved in law and not sure if a down payment is a contractual obligation.  For some reason I am guessing that this owner probably has gathered his employees together and said "All Pro Form Go Through Me!".


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 21, 2009)

Greg said:


> Are we really still talking about this?



of course

its very important to kill horses at least 9 times especially when both the shop and the customer are probably in the wrong in some way shape or form.  Need at least 20 pages of debate to prove who is more wrong.  :lol:


----------



## marcski (Dec 21, 2009)

You know if it was a regular and everyone on here told that person to just chill out a minute and let's try and get to the bottom of it, I think most would at least heed to the advice they receive on here a bit instead of killing the messenger.   I think once one did this and realizes, hey, i'll just get my deposit back and get the skis somewhere else if I really have a proform...its still good!


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> of course
> 
> its very important to kill horses at least 9 times especially when both the shop and the customer are probably in the wrong in some way shape or form.  Need at least 20 pages of debate to prove who is more wrong.  :lol:




I've been out of this until I was mentioned by Severene and brought back in....


----------



## mondeo (Dec 21, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> of course
> 
> its very important to kill horses at least 9 times especially when both the shop and the customer are probably in the wrong in some way shape or form. Need at least 20 pages of debate to prove who is more wrong. :lol:


Hmm, no one's blamed the government, corporations, banks, or big oil yet...

This thread has legs!


----------



## abc (Dec 21, 2009)

marcski said:


> You know if it was a regular and everyone on here told that person to just chill out a minute and let's try and get to the bottom of it, I think most would at least heed to the advice they receive on here a bit instead of killing the messenger.   I think once one did this and realizes, hey, i'll just get my deposit back and get the skis somewhere else if I really have a proform...*its still good*!


It may not. And that might be the crux of the issue...

I don't know anything about pro form. But from reading the posts, it sounds like it needs to be done early in the season. So if that's the case, it might explain her outrage. Because it's now too late for her to get it from another shop! 

I'm guessing the shop probably offered her money back but she would be without the skis.


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

abc said:


> I don't know anything about pro form. But from reading the posts, it sounds like it needs to be done early in the season. So if that's the case, it might explain her outrage. Because it's now too late for her to get it from another shop!
> 
> I'm guessing the shop probably offered her money back but she would be without the skis.



I don't think it was pro-form - it was more of a professional courtesy deal.  From what I've read.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 21, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> of course
> 
> its very important to kill horses at least 9 times especially when both the shop and the customer are probably in the wrong in some way shape or form.  Need at least 20 pages of debate to prove who is more wrong.  :lol:



And yet you look............


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> And yet you look............



OK... You payin' for all the coffee I just spit all over my keyboard...


----------



## marcski (Dec 21, 2009)

This has been by far, the most active thread since GSS!


----------



## campgottagopee (Dec 21, 2009)

Greg said:


> Are we really still talking about this?



I know, really---kinda like all the Sundown Mogul threads....:lol: :smash: :lol:


----------



## riverc0il (Dec 21, 2009)

Greg said:


> Are we really still talking about this?


No. We are talking about talking about it at this point. :roll:


----------



## mondeo (Dec 21, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> No. We are talking about talking about it at this point. :roll:


So then you're talking about talking about talking about it? :grin:


----------



## andyzee (Dec 21, 2009)

dmc said:


> I've been out of this until I was mentioned by Severene and brought back in....



So are you saying that she's an instigator?


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

andyzee said:


> So are you saying that she's an instigator?



no...  but... nevermind..


----------



## gorgonzola (Dec 21, 2009)

i'm bumping this whole thing up to a 10 douche rating - would be even more but i think there was a recipe for kahlua in there somewhere for a little redemption


----------



## andyzee (Dec 21, 2009)

gorgonzola said:


> i'm bumping this whole thing up to a 10 douche rating - would be even more but i think there was a recipe for kahlua in there somewhere for a little redemption



To give it a douche rating, I think you need to be a douche master. Are you a master douche?


----------



## severine (Dec 21, 2009)

andyzee said:


> So are you saying that she's an instigator?



Hello pot? Meet kettle.

I'm just wondering where the other side of the story is since there was such a mission to obtain it...


----------



## mondeo (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> Hello pot? Meet kettle.
> 
> I'm just wondering where the other side of the story is since there was such a mission to obtain it...


I do believe that was a joke from AZ...


----------



## Shredder of Gnar (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> Hello pot? Meet kettle.
> 
> I'm just wondering where the other side of the story is since there was such a mission to obtain it...


Could someone please, preferrably in 20 words or less, ok I'll give you 30  summarize what this thread is all about?  Part of it seems to be about a thread that's been deleted, so it really is kinda hard to follow... thanks in advance!


----------



## severine (Dec 21, 2009)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> Could someone please, preferrably in 20 words or less, ok I'll give you 30  summarize what this thread is all about?  Part of it seems to be about a thread that's been deleted, so it really is kinda hard to follow... thanks in advance!



http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=68586
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=68590
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=68596


----------



## twinplanx (Dec 21, 2009)

andyzee said:


> To give it a douche rating, I think you need to be a douche master. Are you a master douche?


  or a Master Baiter?


----------



## snoseek (Dec 21, 2009)

21 pages for this topic? Really?

FOR FUCKS SAKE YOU HAVE GREAT SKIING RIGHT NOW, GO.

carry on.......


----------



## dmc (Dec 21, 2009)

severine said:


> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=68586
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=68590
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=68596



And these..
http://www.theskidiva.com/forums/showthread.php?p=113380#post113380
http://www.theskidiva.com/forums/showthread.php?p=117907#post117907


----------



## hrstrat57 (Dec 21, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I'll bet the owner and/or manager of the shop had no clue it was going on.   Some employee probably offered up the deal.  After 6 or 7 weeks with a pair of high end skis sitting in the back still in the shrink wrap and with the Christmas rush looming, the employee who offered up the pro form deal out of inventory got caught and spanked.   I don't see how any ski shop should be in any way ethically bound to stand behind a pro form side deal gone sour.



Probably right....my experience with PF was had to have a pro form in hand with signature from SSD together with some proof of active SS status, PSIA card, pin, etc etc....make and complete the deal as early as August or at the latest a couple of years I recall attending pro nights....in September as I recall.....gear was special order only, _*never*_ from inventory.

I don't really think we know at this point what was really going on here......after reading the ski diva threads it is even more confusing....it is unclear if the OP is a certified instructor or a shop worker or in what capacity she is employed in the ski biz.....

No F bombs over there on diva BTW......since when did AZ allow F bombs anyway...guess I haven't been paying attention.....and the ladies didn't exactly line up in full support....it got quiet pretty quick.....

I am out on this train wreck, tho I suppose I have contributed to the derailment a little bit in my perfectly innocent way.:razz:

Shop forms are better BTW......


----------



## hrstrat57 (Dec 21, 2009)

Oooooops....

I meant OP in the original (I believe locked) thread....

Sorry Puck!


----------



## snoseek (Dec 21, 2009)

hrstrat57 said:


> No F bombs over there on diva BTW......since when did AZ allow F bombs anyway...guess I haven't been paying attention......:razz:
> 
> Shop forms are better BTW......



No you have not! Wake the fuck up!!!111

Just joking and derailing this silly thread. I'll cool it for a bit ahaha


----------



## Trekchick (Dec 22, 2009)

Philpug said:


> From Fight Club...
> *
> The first rule of Proform skis is that you don't talk about proform skis.*
> 
> ...





severine said:


> I'm just wondering where the other side of the story is since there was such a mission to obtain it...


Sev, all the underlying name calling between SD and others in all of these threads aside, the ski shop will be wise to NOT make a comment, because ProForms are a delicate subject and really should not be discussed as they have been.


----------



## gorgonzola (Dec 22, 2009)

andyzee said:


> To give it a douche rating, I think you need to be a douche master. Are you a master douche?



mmm not sure... let me consult urban dickshunary

heck yea !


----------



## andyzee (Dec 22, 2009)

:beer:


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

Can't wait to hit Dunkin Donuts on the way down to band rehearsal in Jerz...


----------



## marcski (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, now that everyone realizes that the main issue with the skis in the first place was the graphics, isn't this entire thread that much more thrilling?

Ski graphics? Who would ever buy a pair of skis based on aesthetic looks?  I mean a pair that you're actually going to ski on as opposed to mount on your wall.


----------



## Trekchick (Dec 22, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Got Some Baileys for that?





drjeff said:


> Now your talking!





campgottagopee said:


> You know I never really cared for Baileys, but always kinda liked a little Old Grandad in the cup-o-joe.





severine said:


> The kids in my class know that if I show up with a travel mug at class, it's usually coffee + Bailey's. :lol:





Trekchick said:


> My new fav coffee drink:
> Cognac, Khalua, and coffee.





campgottagopee said:


> Think I'll give 'er a try---sounds good.





Grassi21 said:


> I make my own khalua.  i usually use 100 proof vodka in it.  3 cups vodka, 3 cups brown sugar, 3 cups of strong coffee, and a vanilla bean that is split down the middle.  let it sit at least 1 week preferably more.  add a couple of drops of glycerin to give it some viscosity.  great for just doing shots.  nice little caffeine boost as well.  think i'm gonna make some this evening....





severine said:


> Thanks for the recipe! I have a few vanilla beans in the cabinet and haven't found the perfect use for them yet.





Grassi21 said:


> you could even steep the vanilla bean in the 3 cups of water and then use the vanilla water for your coffee.  only problem is a slight vanilla taste in your morning coffee for a bit.  i also brew the coffee and then run it through the same grinds a second time to intensify the flavor.
> 
> ps - stick it in old booze bottle or find a growler... i'll dig up a pic.  this thread is so much better now. :beer:


Just sayin'!


----------



## BLESS (Dec 22, 2009)

my wife is a pediatric RN at a childrens hospital.....she has many many sick kids, and a lot of them have cancer, going through radiation, chemo & everything else.  WAY TOO OFTEN  she'll come home a mess, and I immediately kn ow she's lost another child to these horrible ilnesses.  It's an extremely tough job for those nurses as they become very attached to their kids because most of them are there for weeks or months at a time.....I cant even begin to tell you what a great job those nurses do...overworked and underpaid...it really is true.

I work for my states Department of Children, Youth & Families, in a juvenile detention unit.  I would describe my job as 60% social worker/child advocate....40% correctional officer.  Truly a sad job as most of these kids never had a chance from day one....father either dead or in jail, mother usually a drug addict.  These kids have been in and out of hospitals, group homes, various treatment centers, and ultimately prison.  Most of them will be career criminals. It's a very stressful job, which makes you sit back sometimes and appreciate the important things in life.



just trying to remind everyone that we're TALKING ABOUT A PAIR OF F*CKING SKIIS HERE.  In the grand scheme of things, material items such as skiis DONT MEAN SHIT.  Please try and remember that people.......and I mean the people on both sides.


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

BLESS said:


> just trying to remind everyone that we're TALKING ABOUT A PAIR OF F*CKING SKIIS HERE.  In the grand scheme of things, material items such as skiis DONT MEAN SHIT.  Please try and remember that people.......and I mean the people on both sides.




And is this not a ski website and forum?
Are we not allowed to voice an opinion in support of local ski shoppes?

Can I now tell everyone about my sister-in-law amputating legs and arms off of kids in Afghanistan?


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

marcski said:


> Well, now that everyone realizes that the main issue with the skis in the first place was the graphics, isn't this entire thread that much more thrilling?
> 
> Ski graphics? Who would ever buy a pair of skis based on aesthetic looks?  I mean a pair that you're actually going to ski on as opposed to mount on your wall.



AND turns out.. she didn't even need them...  :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## BLESS (Dec 22, 2009)

dmc said:


> And is this not a ski website and forum?
> Are we not allowed to voice an opinion in support of local ski shoppes?
> 
> Can I now tell everyone about my sister-in-law amputating legs and arms off of kids in Afghanistan?



you can tell everyone whatever you want about your sister.  Who am I to tell you what you can say about your sister?  If shes helping children in Afghanistan, good for her...a lot more admirable, noble & worthwhile then bitching about material items like skis.

Did I say you werent allowed to voice your opinioin about ski shoppes?  No.  You've voiced yours plenty. I get it.  I was only trying to help by putting things in perspective.  You wanna hate on that, feel free.


----------



## Marc (Dec 22, 2009)

So I learned something from all this...



... apparently people still buy skis in stores.  News to me.


----------



## WWF-VT (Dec 22, 2009)

"So I'm looking at the rack of Volkls and comment that they have no Auras. The guy tells me he can get them if I want and asks if I like the graphics. Nope. And that's why I've been a bit gun shy about just buying a pair. I just am not in love with the graphics."

Two dopes: seller and buyer that make a sale / purchase based upon graphics


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

BLESS said:


> you can tell everyone whatever you want about your sister.  If shes helping children in Afghanistan, good for her...a lot more noble & worthwhile then bitching about material items like skis.
> 
> Did I say you werent allowed to voice your opinioin about ski shoppes?  No.  You've voiced yours plenty. I get it.  I was only trying to help by putting things in perspective.  You wanna hate on that, feel free.



You know there's room in this world for bitching about people blasting ski shoppes *AND* people helping others that are in dire situations...

i don't need you to divy out morality...  It's downright nauseating...   Why not just help people to help people?


----------



## BLESS (Dec 22, 2009)

dmc said:


> You know there's room in this world for bitching about people blasting ski shoppes *AND* people helping others that are in dire situations...
> 
> i don't need you to divy out morality...  It's downright nauseating...   Why not just help people to help people?




Whats neauseating is you & her going on & on about a trivial subject.  So, I cant offer my opinion on something because you dont need me to "divy out morality"?   But you can offer yours  OVER & OVER & OVER again about ski shops?  Evidently you dont see how hyporcitical that is...


Um, I do help people to help people.  more than you know...... I was just trying to give some perspective.....for everyone to take a step back and realize what your arguing about isnt all that important.


----------



## marcski (Dec 22, 2009)

BLESS said:


> you can tell everyone whatever you want about your sister.  Who am I to tell you what you can say about your sister?  If shes helping children in Afghanistan, good for her...a lot more admirable, noble & worthwhile then bitching about material items like skis.
> 
> Did I say you werent allowed to voice your opinioin about ski shoppes?  No.  You've voiced yours plenty. I get it.  I was only trying to help by putting things in perspective.  You wanna hate on that, feel free.




Also, if you go back and read the first few pages..that's exactly what people were telling her...to just chill its a pair of skis.  But then....well this has already been discussed.


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

BLESS said:


> Whats neauseating is you & her going on & on about a trivial subject.  So, I cant offer my opinion on something because you dont need me to "divy out morality"?   But you can offer yours  OVER & OVER & OVER again about ski shops?  Evidently you dont see how hyporcitical that is...
> 
> 
> Um, I do help people to help people.  more than you know...... I was just trying to give some perspective.....for everyone to take a step back and realize what your arguing about isnt all that important.



It's ok... really...

just don't click...  easy as that...


----------



## Beetlenut (Dec 22, 2009)

dmc said:


> It's ok... really...
> 
> just don't click... easy as that...


 
Always the Douche!


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

Beetlenut said:


> Always the Douche!



Been called worse by better...  whatever...


----------



## andyzee (Dec 22, 2009)

Swamp Dog said:


> my apologies to those who also read this over at Ski Diva, and to those who will see it soon at Epic....I AM SO MAD!!!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> well, I hate to be the one to bash a ski business, but I am fit to be tied!! On October 31st I went into Ski Haus in Salem...."just to look". I ended up putting a down payment on a pair of Volkl Mantras. I actually let the sales guy talk me into them when they didn't have any Auras.
> 
> ...



Just a reminder :-D


----------



## BLESS (Dec 22, 2009)

dmc said:


> It's ok... really...
> 
> just don't click...  easy as that...




I'm sorry I ever did.  Complete waste of time.  Good luck with the continued debate.


----------



## dmc (Dec 22, 2009)

BLESS said:


> I'm sorry I ever did.  Complete waste of time.  Good luck with the continued debate.



Thank you and Merry Christmas!!!

Please support your local ski shop!


----------



## Puck it (Dec 22, 2009)

Talked with Steve, the owner, today.  It is exactly what we all thought. She waited too long. I will type a full report from the PC tomorrow.  I am on the iTouch now. Sorry. Too much of pain typing on it.


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## Philpug (Dec 22, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Talked with Steve, the owner, today.  It is exactly what we all thought. She waited too long. I will type a full report from the PC tomorrow.  I am on the iTouch now. Sorry. Too much of pain typing on it.



"Two men say their Jesus, one of them must be wrong"


----------



## Puck it (Dec 22, 2009)

Philpug said:


> "Two men say their Jesus, one of them must be wrong"



It is as she described but left a couple things out.  In short Ski Haus could not get the skis from the Volkl when she returned with her proof emoyment. They had to get them from the Volkl and they had none. Don't blame them for not taking the hit. They set them aside because they thought it would be a short time for the proof of employment. Well 7 weeks later and the ski is out of stock from Volkl.

Should Ski Haus sell there own inventory at a loss?  I think not.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 22, 2009)

Puck it said:


> It is as she described but left a couple things out.  In short Ski Haus could not get the skis from the Volkl when she returned with her proof emoyment. They had to get them from the Volkl and they had none. Don't blame them for not taking the hit. They set them aside because they thought it would be a short time for the proof of employment. Well 7 weeks later and the ski is out of stock from Volkl.
> 
> Should Ski Haus sell there own inventory at a loss?  I think not.



Their mistake was letting her think that that was her set of skis. It should have been impressed upon her that it was contingent on Volkl having them in stock when she came back with proof of employment. And whatever proof she was waiting for, it seems like she could have gotten a temporary letter from the mtn. Ball dropped on both ends. Bad attitude ends any hope of working something else out.


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 22, 2009)

Missed the part about her coming back nearly 2 months later. I assumed it was a couple of days. You go to HR get your pass/ID badge, come back with documentation, deal happens. What took so long? My guess is she wasn't an employee when she made the deal but knew she would be in a couple of months. Not cool at all.


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## Puck it (Dec 22, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Their mistake was letting her think that that was her set of skis. It should have been impressed upon her that it was contingent on Volkl having them in stock when she came back with proof of employment. And whatever proof she was waiting for, it seems like she could have gotten a temporary letter from the mtn. Ball dropped on both ends. Bad attitude ends any hope of working something else out.



Okay. I was not going to type on the iTouch.  She was told that it was contignent on her employment. Ski haus didn't think it would 2 months. She did not have her crap together and they tried to be accomodating


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## severine (Dec 22, 2009)

Thank you for obtaining the other side, Puck It. I agree with wa-loaf.


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## andyzee (Dec 22, 2009)

So then it's settled, she was a douche bag that tried to use the Internet to ruin a business since they would not succumb to her blackmail attempt.


----------



## marcski (Dec 22, 2009)

andyzee said:


> So then it's settled, she was a douche bag that tried to use the Internet to ruin a business since they would not succumb to her blackmail attempt.



25 pages and Andy sums it up in 28 words.

My take is...similar to Wa-loaf's...but If you snooze you lose.


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## Puck it (Dec 23, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Their mistake was letting her think that that was her set of skis. It should have been impressed upon her that it was contingent on Volkl having them in stock when she came back with proof of employment. And whatever proof she was waiting for, it seems like she could have gotten a temporary letter from the mtn. Ball dropped on both ends. Bad attitude ends any hope of working something else out.



Steve said that they told her it was contignent on the proof of employment.


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## Philpug (Dec 23, 2009)

Too many times, what is SAID and what is HEARD are two different things.

Either way, the expectation to her from the shop shouldn't have been to pull a pair of skis off the ski wall either, that is now how it is done.


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## skidbump (Dec 23, 2009)

Philpug said:


> "Two men say their Jesus, one of them must be wrong"




Some would say both are wrong.


----------



## andyzee (Dec 23, 2009)

skidbump said:


> Some would say both are wrong.




True philosopher!


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## Glenn (Dec 23, 2009)

Two slaps...the skin of the onion peels right off......


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## wa-loaf (Dec 23, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Steve said that they told her it was contignent on the proof of employment.



I got that. They just should have let her know that it was time sensitive and that pro-forms run out.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 23, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I got that. They just should have let her know that it was time sensitive and that pro-forms run out.



They should just fire the employee who pulled skis out of stock for a pro form deal.   If I were the shop owner, that's what I would have done.   I'm not running a charity.   Ski resort employees can get pro form through their ski resort.   Why bother a flatland business in Salem, NH with it?   My employees should be trying to make a profit for my business, not doing side deals with potential customers where I don't make a dime.


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## Puck it (Dec 23, 2009)

They pulled out of inventory thinking that the proof of employment would be coming soon.  Not 7 weeks later.


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## hammer (Dec 23, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I got that. They just should have let her know that it was time sensitive and that pro-forms run out.


Agree...kind of an important detail if you ask me.

Things got screwed up on both sides...and the whole threat of legal action made it much worse.


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## Puck it (Dec 23, 2009)

She was told that that skis would set aside and held until they got the proof of employment and a confirmed shipment from the manufacturer.  It still comes down to the time it took so long to get the proof of employment.  That is the problem.  She should sue Gunstock then.


----------



## hammer (Dec 23, 2009)

Puck it said:


> She was told that that skis would set aside and held until they got the proof of employment and a confirmed shipment from the manufacturer.  It still comes down to the time it took so long to get the proof of employment.  That is the problem.  She should sue Gunstock then.


Yes, but was she told that she needed to get that proof within a certain time period?

Don't know about others, but in my line of work if you don't make the terms of a sale clear from the start you can get into a lot of trouble.

Not justifying her legal threats (which I still believe are over the top) but I can't say that Ski Haus was in the right here either...


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## dmc (Dec 23, 2009)

Puck it said:


> She should sue Gunstock then.



Dont joke...   Or give her ideas...


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## andyzee (Dec 23, 2009)

I think she should sue Alpinezone for not fully supporting her, boycotting Ski Haus, and informing her of details of Pro whatever deals.

After which she should sue herself, her parents, and her school systems, well for obvious reason.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 23, 2009)

Puck it said:


> She was told that that skis would set aside and held until they got the proof of employment and a confirmed shipment from the manufacturer.  It still comes down to the time it took so long to get the proof of employment.  That is the problem.  She should sue Gunstock then.



We get all that. The only thing missing is them saying, "Hey these go fast, get your shit together ASAP". a. she might have tried harder to get proof, b. she wouldn't have been so upset when it didn't work out. They didn't do anything wrong, it's just the info would have been helpful for everyone. I guess you assume the people getting pro-forms should know what's up.


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## dmc (Dec 23, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I think she should sue Alpinezone for not fully supporting her, boycotting Ski Haus, and informing her of details of Pro whatever deals.
> 
> After which she should sue herself, her parents, and her school systems, well for obvious reason.



Her counsel has contacted herself...


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## Puck it (Dec 23, 2009)

Steve said she was not pleasant on the phone at all.


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## dmc (Dec 23, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Steve said she was not pleasant on the phone at all.



Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.


----------



## andyzee (Dec 23, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Steve said she was not pleasant on the phone at all.



WOW, now that is surprising!


----------



## severine (Dec 23, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Their mistake was letting her think that that was her set of skis. It should have been impressed upon her that it was contingent on Volkl having them in stock when she came back with proof of employment. And whatever proof she was waiting for, it seems like she could have gotten a temporary letter from the mtn. Ball dropped on both ends. Bad attitude ends any hope of working something else out.



I know when I worked at Sundown, I couldn't get my employee ID until after I already started work for the season. I don't know if this is the case in other departments or with what Swamp Dog is doing for the mountain where she's working, but that would obviously cause some issues in timeliness in providing employee credentials.


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## o3jeff (Dec 23, 2009)

Why didn't she just use the Alpinzone proform in the first place?


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## Puck it (Dec 23, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Why didn't she just use the Alpinzone proform in the first place?


 


You waited too long.  It expired.


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## abc (Dec 23, 2009)

Everyone ASSUMES!!!

The shop ASSUMES the proof of employment would take days (in October!), not months. As everyone knows, many resorts only have skeleton staff that long before the season starts. I would say Ski Haus must have know it takes some time to get the proof of employment if she didn't have it already!

The customer ASSUMES the down payment would hold the ski, un-conditionally. That is almost NEVER the case. A shop won't hold merchandise FOREVER. Not for years, maybe not even for months! 30 days? 60 days? She should have clarify it from the begining!


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## DPhelan (Dec 23, 2009)

severine said:


> I know when I worked at Sundown, I couldn't get my employee ID until after I already started work for the season. I don't know if this is the case in other departments or with what Swamp Dog is doing for the mountain where she's working, but that would obviously cause some issues in timeliness in providing employee credentials.



obviously.  otherwise people go to shops prior to being employed>fill out pro forms>don't get their cheap skis>then have a full on melt down on the internet.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 23, 2009)

I dont know what Swamp's history of employment is like, but how does a new employee learn about the workings of proform? I remember in my few weeks of employment at Greek Peak that there were some quiet convos about this stuff, but it certainly was not shared with me.


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## St. Bear (Dec 23, 2009)

This thread keeps going, and going, and going, and going......


----------



## ctenidae (Dec 23, 2009)

dmc said:


> Her counsel has contacted herself...



The person who acts as their own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/just wanted to post inthis unnecessarily epic thread.


----------



## JD (Dec 23, 2009)

28 pages.  Fuck it needs to snow.


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 23, 2009)




----------



## mondeo (Dec 23, 2009)

JD said:


> 28 pages.  Fuck it needs to snow.


I believe this is the point where someone steps in and mentions that not everyone has 10 posts per page.

I've only got 14 pages.


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## andyzee (Dec 23, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I believe this is the point where someone steps in and mentions that not everyone has 10 posts per page.
> 
> I've only got 14 pages.



Me too. I feel cheated.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 24, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I believe this is the point where someone steps in and mentions that not everyone has 10 posts per page.
> 
> I've only got 14 pages.



7 here.


----------



## ctenidae (Dec 24, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I believe this is the point where someone steps in and mentions that not everyone has 10 posts per page.
> 
> I've only got 14 pages.





andyzee said:


> Me too. I feel cheated.





Hawkshot99 said:


> 7 here.



I think you're all overreacting. Sure, it's not right that some people have fewer pages than others, butit's not the end of the world. Maybe some better information sharing would have helped, but sometimes things don't turn out quite how you'd hoped. No need to get all worked up and excited about it.

:beer:


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## spilla (Dec 28, 2009)

My name is Steve, the owner of Ski Haus.  I would like to explain.

This person came into the store on 10/31/09 interested in the Mantras.  As a courtesy, until she could prove employment, she put a deposit on the package at the regular price.  After the sale was completed that day she asked the salesperson to write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt.  On 12/5/09 the customer was called and asked if she was still interested in the skis and bindings because it was now outside of our 30 day layaway policy.  Her husband called back the next day and informed me that she had just received her proof on employment at the ski area.  I do a lot of pro forms for people who have no difficulty getting me proof of employment in August, September, and October, but for some reason this took her until December to get.
When I explained that any proform deals go direct through the manufacturer and we only do them as a service to the customer (we don't make any money on them) and I would order them from Volkl that day based on availability from the manufacturer, her husband wasn't happy.  He wanted to drive down and have us install the bindings while he waited when my shop was backed up four days due to the Christmas rush.

I called Volkl.  They were out of stock.  I called my rep who tried to pull one from his or his tech reps stock of pro skis, but in December, they were all gone.  My rep called stores that he knew might have pro stock, but to no avail.  I called the customer to try and explain.  After very heated one sided conversation I hung up the phone after the threats of a lawyer and badmouthing me and the store on the web.  I don't know what else I could have done.  The manufacturer was out of product by the time we got proof of employment.  I did all that I could and went above and beyond to try to get product for her, but she still threatens with a lawyer.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2009)

I think that confirms most of our suspicions. Thanks for posting.


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## dmc (Dec 28, 2009)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve, the owner of Ski Haus.  I would like to explain.
> 
> This person came into the store on 10/31/09 interested in the Mantras.  As a courtesy, until she could prove employment, she put a deposit on the package at the regular price.  After the sale was completed that day she asked the salesperson to write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt.  On 12/5/09 the customer was called and asked if she was still interested in the skis and bindings because it was now outside of our 30 day layaway policy.  Her husband called back the next day and informed me that she had just received her proof on employment at the ski area.  I do a lot of pro forms for people who have no difficulty getting me proof of employment in August, September, and October, but for some reason this took her until December to get.
> When I explained that any proform deals go direct through the manufacturer and we only do them as a service to the customer (we don't make any money on them) and I would order them from Volkl that day based on availability from the manufacturer, her husband wasn't happy.  He wanted to drive down and have us install the bindings while he waited when my shop was backed up four days due to the Christmas rush.
> ...



Thanks..

Ski shops want to support the industry and will go above and beyond to do so..  We need to support them like they support us..

I am still very glad that some of us at AZ tried to put a stop to this before she could carpet bomb all the ski boards..  

All this for something she didn't even need.. :roll:


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## Puck it (Dec 28, 2009)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve, the owner of Ski Haus. I would like to explain.
> 
> This person came into the store on 10/31/09 interested in the Mantras. As a courtesy, until she could prove employment, she put a deposit on the package at the regular price. After the sale was completed that day she asked the salesperson to write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt. On 12/5/09 the customer was called and asked if she was still interested in the skis and bindings because it was now outside of our 30 day layaway policy. Her husband called back the next day and informed me that she had just received her proof on employment at the ski area. I do a lot of pro forms for people who have no difficulty getting me proof of employment in August, September, and October, but for some reason this took her until December to get.
> When I explained that any proform deals go direct through the manufacturer and we only do them as a service to the customer (we don't make any money on them) and I would order them from Volkl that day based on availability from the manufacturer, her husband wasn't happy. He wanted to drive down and have us install the bindings while he waited when my shop was backed up four days due to the Christmas rush.
> ...


 

Seems to me Ski Haus went above and beyond.  Just like I thought they would.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 28, 2009)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve, the owner of Ski Haus.  I would like to explain.
> 
> This person came into the store on 10/31/09 interested in the Mantras.  As a courtesy, until she could prove employment, she put a deposit on the package at the regular price.  After the sale was completed that day she asked the salesperson to write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt.  On 12/5/09 the customer was called and asked if she was still interested in the skis and bindings because it was now outside of our 30 day layaway policy.  Her husband called back the next day and informed me that she had just received her proof on employment at the ski area.  I do a lot of pro forms for people who have no difficulty getting me proof of employment in August, September, and October, but for some reason this took her until December to get.
> When I explained that any proform deals go direct through the manufacturer and we only do them as a service to the customer (we don't make any money on them) and I would order them from Volkl that day based on availability from the manufacturer, her husband wasn't happy.  He wanted to drive down and have us install the bindings while he waited when my shop was backed up four days due to the Christmas rush.
> ...



As others have said, thanks for taking the time to clear this up. Again, I think most of us had expected something like that is what indeed happened. Good luck w/ your biz in the new year!!!


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## severine (Dec 28, 2009)

Thanks for clearing this up, Steve.


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## hrstrat57 (Dec 28, 2009)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve, the owner of Ski Haus.  I would like to explain.
> 
> This person came into the store on 10/31/09 interested in the Mantras.  As a courtesy, until she could prove employment, she put a deposit on the package at the regular price.  After the sale was completed that day she asked the salesperson to write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt.  On 12/5/09 the customer was called and asked if she was still interested in the skis and bindings because it was now outside of our 30 day layaway policy.  Her husband called back the next day and informed me that she had just received her proof on employment at the ski area.  I do a lot of pro forms for people who have no difficulty getting me proof of employment in August, September, and October, but for some reason this took her until December to get.
> When I explained that any proform deals go direct through the manufacturer and we only do them as a service to the customer (we don't make any money on them) and I would order them from Volkl that day based on availability from the manufacturer, her husband wasn't happy.  He wanted to drive down and have us install the bindings while he waited when my shop was backed up four days due to the Christmas rush.
> ...



Thank you.

Hope you have a successful season.


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## WJenness (Dec 28, 2009)

Steve,

Thanks for posting your side.

I had stopped in the Wilmington store a few times to buy some small things, and was very sad to see the building gone...

However, this fall I took a ride up to the Salem store to get new boots, and had a GREAT experience dealing with Lee and ended up with a pair of boots that I love.

I have referred a couple friends to you guys and they have all really enjoyed the experience, so keep doing what you guys do.

Thanks again.

-w


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## andyzee (Dec 28, 2009)

WOW, this women came on here to destroy Ski Haus and actually gave them tons of free publicity. Nice to see some Internet justice. Steve, never heard of the Ski Haus before as I am not from NH. However, next time I'm up there, I'll be sure to stop in. All the best for the new year!


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## dmc (Dec 28, 2009)

andyzee said:


> WOW, this women came on here to destroy Ski Haus and actually gave them tons of free publicity. Nice to see some Internet justice. Steve, never heard of the Ski Haus before as I am not from NH. However, next time I'm up there, I'll be sure to stop in. All the best for the new year!



http://skihaus.com/
Tax free!


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## hrstrat57 (Dec 28, 2009)

dmc said:


> http://skihaus.com/
> Tax free!



One of these days my last two pair of Tecnicas previously discussed will expire. 

Ski Haus carries Tecnica and will be first on my list for a visit!

Never heard of 'em before as I am from the flatlands.....

They also carry Descente - another long term fav....my Karbon shortie jacket is crying for retirement too!!!

Web site bookmarked. 

Next visit to NH a detour will be coded into my trusty GPS.

Thanks DMC:flag:


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## andyzee (Dec 28, 2009)

I'll hit it for sure, like the no tax thing.


----------



## St. Bear (Dec 28, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I'll hit it for sure, like the no tax thing.



I take advantage of that all the time.  Just over the past month I've had 2 online purchases shipped to my parent's house in NH to avoid paying sales tax.


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## 2knees (Dec 28, 2009)

the truth generally lies somewhere in the middle.  

maybe not in this case, but that's usually how it shakes out.


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## marcski (Dec 28, 2009)

Thanks Steve. As Wa-loaf suggested, you confirmed most of our suspicions merely by the way she reacted to a lot of peoples'  posts in this thread. She clearly had an agenda.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Dec 28, 2009)

I haven't weighed in on this issue as of yet...so here it goes.  As someone interested in consumer rights I've been following this story as it unfolded  over the last few weeks. I've seen one petty (and sketchy) gripe from a disgruntled consumer and many testimonials from loyal customers.  Steve (The Owner's) response was professional, polite and stuck to the facts. In a nutshell....this is the type of shop that I like to do business with.


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## abc (Dec 28, 2009)

Playing devil's advocate...



spilla said:


> As a courtesy, until she could prove employment, she put a deposit on the package at the regular price.  After the sale was completed that day she asked the salesperson to write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt.  .


Maybe I'm missing something here. But why would the salesperson "write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt" if the deposit was for regular priced skis?


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2009)

abc said:


> Playing devil's advocate...
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something here. But why would the salesperson "write the pro form pricing on her copy of the receipt" if the deposit was for regular priced skis?



Sometimes a shop will give you the regular priced ski and replace it with the Pro-form ski when it comes in. Of course that's dependent on one being in stock with the manufacturer.


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## spilla (Dec 28, 2009)

*Thanks!*

Thanks to all for the support!  You are all welcome any time.

Steve


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 28, 2009)

And to think she works at Gunstock!  Odds are she works with the public in some capacity....ugh, I would hate to run into her, she must be a fun cup of tea.


----------



## Philpug (Dec 29, 2009)

Spilla,

This comes under the category 'No good deed goes unpunished", I m sure you are going to think twice next time someone wants "industry benefits" and I am sure you are not going to pull a ski out of stock to help them. Some people can ruin it for the rest.


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## spilla (Dec 29, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> Swamp - After reading your OP you definately have a legit beef. The owner, at the best should have backed the deal that you were offered, at the least, offered to split the diference.
> 
> Lots of possibilities as to why the guy you dealt with made an offer that wouldn't work for the owner. The saleman probably assumed they could get the skis you wanted from the manufacturer but it turned out they could not. He thought you were cute so he wanted to impress you with a deal. He is new so he forgot some important info during training, Hard to know why it happened, doesn't change the fact that your not a happy customer.
> 
> ...



The original reciept is for the price of the ski and binding that is posted on the wall.  As a courtesy, the customer was told the Pro Form price and it was written on her copy of the reciept (I do not know by who).  The customer put a deposit on the package and it was put asside with the understanding she would come in with proof of employment.  In October and early November, Volkl had stock in the skis and Marker the bindings.  In December they did not.  I explained that Volkl was out of stock on the ski and was willing to work something out.  When I was told that I had a contract and an irrational customer threatened me with badmouthing on the internet and a lawyer I left it up to the customer to do what she felt right.  Here we are today.  Yesterday, her husband came in to get the refund for the deposit.  He did not have the credit card it was put on so I could not refund at the time.  I was told I would rather deal with him than his wife and that she would again rant about it on the internet.
I feel that Bobby, myself, and Ski Haus have gone above and beyond to keep her happy.  If the manufacturer is out of product they cannot honor a Pro Form.  Her ski was put asside for what should have been a week.  It turned into 5 1/2 weeks.  Three of those weeks Ski Haus was out of stock on the ski and could have sold it to someone else.  I am the middle man that doesn't make money on Pro Form.  It is a service we offer to employees of ski areas and the manufacturers to offer deserving people deals on equipment so they can make others love this sport the way that we do.

I too, would hate for this to ruin it for all qualified people who work in the ski industry.  I will continue to offer Pro Form for area employees as a service.  I thank all of you for your support.

Think snow!


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## marcski (Dec 29, 2009)

Some people will just never be satisfied.  She should stick to the ladies' sites if she wants support as opposed to reality.


----------



## andyzee (Dec 29, 2009)

marcski said:


> Some people will just never be satisfied.  She should stick to the ladies' sites if she wants support as opposed to reality.



So you're saying the ladies don't live in the real world? :lol:


----------



## severine (Dec 29, 2009)

That's a low blow, marcski (and andy, for that matter). There are several women who weighed in on the topic here and I think all of us considered the whole picture, none taking "sides."  

I repeat... this is why it's a sausage fest here. :roll:


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 29, 2009)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve, the owner of Ski Haus.  I would like to explain.





spilla said:


> Ski Haus in Salem, NH has the best boot fiiters anywhere.  Lee and Steve have been fittng my family forever.  I would deffinately recomend!



So are you actually Steve or someone else? That second post there puts everything you said under suspicion.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So are you actually Steve or someone else? That second post there puts everything you said under suspicion.



nothing suspicious at all.........


----------



## marcski (Dec 29, 2009)

severine said:


> That's a low blow, marcski (and andy, for that matter). There are several women who weighed in on the topic here and I think all of us considered the whole picture, none taking "sides."
> 
> I repeat... this is why it's a sausage fest here. :roll:



My post was referring to the OP, not you or others who posted replies, Sev.  I think it was the OP who was the first (in one of her rants) to mention anything about the sex of the posters on this board.  I think I said it all along, women and men are wired differently, men try to find solutions to problems, women want camaraderie in their misery.


----------



## andyzee (Dec 29, 2009)

severine said:


> That's a low blow, marcski (and andy, for that matter). There are several women who weighed in on the topic here and I think all of us considered the whole picture, none taking "sides."
> 
> I repeat... this is why it's a sausage fest here. :roll:



I'm starting to wonder if that's a bad thing.


----------



## hrstrat57 (Dec 29, 2009)

marcski said:


> My post was referring to the OP, not you or others who posted replies, Sev.  I think it was the OP who was the first (in one of her rants) to mention anything about the sex of the posters on this board.  I think I said it all along, women and men are wired differently, men try to find solutions to problems, women want camaraderie in their misery.



To be fair IMHO she didn't get a whole lot of piling on on her behalf over on Ski Diva......at least not the last time I checked the threads over there. 

Pretty objective response I thought.


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## Trekchick (Dec 29, 2009)

marcski said:


> Some people will just never be satisfied.  She should stick to the ladies' sites if she wants support as opposed to reality.


That's pretty funny because women can be catty, and brutal.

Thanks for the laugh. :lol:


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## jaywbigred (Dec 30, 2009)

Spilla credibility is in question imo. 

However, I withdraw any previous support for swamp thing I may have expressed given the important details added to the scenario by the proform aspect of the deal, which I didn't fully grasp at the get go.


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## Puck it (Dec 30, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> nothing suspicious at all.........


 

Something is not right with this poster unless he using someone's account.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 30, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Something is not right with this poster unless he using someone's account.



me or spilla?


I was merely suggesting/kidding that Steve might like to talk in the third person :lol:


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## Puck it (Dec 30, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> me or spilla?
> 
> 
> I was merely suggesting/kidding that Steve might like to talk in the third person :lol:


 
Sorry, my bad.  I meant Spilla.


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## marcski (Dec 30, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Sorry, my bad.  I meant Spilla.



Puck it...Why? What changed since your original reply to his in this thread?


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## Puck it (Dec 30, 2009)

spilla said:


> The original reciept is for the price of the ski and binding that is posted on the wall. As a courtesy, the customer was told the Pro Form price and it was written on her copy of the reciept (I do not know by who). The customer put a deposit on the package and it was put asside with the understanding she would come in with proof of employment. In October and early November, Volkl had stock in the skis and Marker the bindings. In December they did not. I explained that Volkl was out of stock on the ski and was willing to work something out. When I was told that I had a contract and an irrational customer threatened me with badmouthing on the internet and a lawyer I left it up to the customer to do what she felt right. Here we are today. Yesterday, her husband came in to get the refund for the deposit. He did not have the credit card it was put on so I could not refund at the time. I was told I would rather deal with him than his wife and that she would again rant about it on the internet.
> I feel that Bobby, myself, and Ski Haus have gone above and beyond to keep her happy. If the manufacturer is out of product they cannot honor a Pro Form. Her ski was put asside for what should have been a week. It turned into 5 1/2 weeks. Three of those weeks Ski Haus was out of stock on the ski and could have sold it to someone else. I am the middle man that doesn't make money on Pro Form. It is a service we offer to employees of ski areas and the manufacturers to offer deserving people deals on equipment so they can make others love this sport the way that we do.
> 
> I too, would hate for this to ruin it for all qualified people who work in the ski industry. I will continue to offer Pro Form for area employees as a service. I thank all of you for your support.
> ...


 
Question for Spilla.  What is your brother's name?  Just trying to make sure that you are Steve.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 30, 2009)

marcski said:


> Puck it...Why? What changed since your original reply to his in this thread?



This: http://forums.alpinezone.com/showpost.php?p=494504&postcount=303


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## marcski (Dec 30, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> This: http://forums.alpinezone.com/showpost.php?p=494504&postcount=303




Interesting.  The plot thickens!


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## Puck it (Dec 30, 2009)

The post does not make sense.  I will know if he can answer the question that I asked and another after that one is answered.


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## spilla (Jan 13, 2010)

My name is Steve Pilla.  My brother Wayne and I have owned Ski Haus since 1988.  Before that, the business was owned by my uncle John since 1965.  It all started out in Wilmington, MA as a hobby and a way to get the kids skiing more cost effectively.  

I don't know where the post about boot fitters came from.  I am new to the whole forum thing and the only way I heard about it was from a customer who read the original post and my assistant store manager who just kicked me in the butt to get back on here and clear things up.  This is a difficult situation that comes along once in a great while and is not typical of the customer service offered by Ski Haus in the years we have been around.  Some people are more difficult to please weather it be that they don't understand how procedures work or if things aren't explained as clearly as they should have been by an employee of my store that has worked for me for his tenth season.

I appreciate the support of our loyal customers over the years and will continue to offer the best experience I can when you visit our store.


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## Puck it (Jan 13, 2010)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve Pilla. My brother Wayne and I have owned Ski Haus since 1988. Before that, the business was owned by my uncle John since 1965. It all started out in Wilmington, MA as a hobby and a way to get the kids skiing more cost effectively.
> 
> I don't know where the post about boot fitters came from. I am new to the whole forum thing and the only way I heard about it was from a customer who read the original post and my assistant store manager who just kicked me in the butt to get back on here and clear things up. This is a difficult situation that comes along once in a great while and is not typical of the customer service offered by Ski Haus in the years we have been around. Some people are more difficult to please weather it be that they don't understand how procedures work or if things aren't explained as clearly as they should have been by an employee of my store that has worked for me for his tenth season.
> 
> I appreciate the support of our loyal customers over the years and will continue to offer the best experience I can when you visit our store.


 
This is Steve.  Thanks again for the core shot repair in two hours.


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## WakeboardMom (Jan 13, 2010)

spilla said:


> My name is Steve Pilla.  My brother Wayne and I have owned Ski Haus since 1988.  Before that, the business was owned by my uncle John since 1965.  It all started out in Wilmington, MA as a hobby and a way to get the kids skiing more cost effectively.
> 
> I don't know where the post about boot fitters came from.  I am new to the whole forum thing and the only way I heard about it was from a customer who read the original post and my assistant store manager who just kicked me in the butt to get back on here and clear things up.  This is a difficult situation that comes along once in a great while and is not typical of the customer service offered by Ski Haus in the years we have been around.  Some people are more difficult to please weather it be that they don't understand how procedures work or if things aren't explained as clearly as they should have been by an employee of my store that has worked for me for his tenth season.
> 
> I appreciate the support of our loyal customers over the years and will continue to offer the best experience I can when you visit our store.



Good post.


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## Sparafucile (Apr 13, 2015)

*Ski Haus has *earned* all the trouble it gets*



spilla said:


> My name is Steve Pilla.  My brother Wayne and I have owned Ski Haus since 1988.  Before that, the business was owned by my uncle John since 1965.  It all started out in Wilmington, MA as a hobby and a way to get the kids skiing more cost effectively.
> 
> I don't know where the post about boot fitters came from.  I am new to the whole forum thing and the only way I heard about it was from a customer who read the original post and my assistant store manager who just kicked me in the butt to get back on here and clear things up.  This is a difficult situation that comes along once in a great while and is not typical of the customer service offered by Ski Haus in the years we have been around.  Some people are more difficult to please weather it be that they don't understand how procedures work or if things aren't explained as clearly as they should have been by an employee of my store that has worked for me for his tenth season.
> 
> I appreciate the support of our loyal customers over the years and will continue to offer the best experience I can when you visit our store.




Steve -- you are personally a lowlife, who deserves every rebuke imaginable for any professional missive and conflict your flawed personality causes you to instigate.

I try to not ascribe to malice what can be perfectly well-explained by incompetence.  But in Steve's case, one can start with malice.  The incompetence is just a bonus.


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## gmcunni (Apr 13, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> Steve -- you are personally a lowlife, who deserves every rebuke imaginable for any professional missive and conflict your flawed personality causes you to instigate.
> 
> I try to not ascribe to malice what can be perfectly well-explained by incompetence.  But in Steve's case, one can start with malice.  The incompetence is just a bonus.




great first post, welcome to AZ.

dissatisfied customer or disgruntled ex-employee?


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## Smellytele (Apr 13, 2015)

Weird 1st post and responding to a 5 year post...


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## Puck it (Apr 13, 2015)

Wow. Some strange first posts lately.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2015)

Sorry to hear that there is some sort of conflict here.  Please read the rules before posting as we don't normally have this sort of posting on here.


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## skiNEwhere (Apr 13, 2015)

^yea. 

These sort of matters are normally only handled via ski off


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## Domeskier (Apr 14, 2015)

That Swamp dog er... "Sparafucile" sure does know how to nurse a grudge...


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## prsboogie (Apr 15, 2015)

Irish Alzheimer's, he forgets everything but the grudges!!!


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## Sparafucile (Apr 15, 2015)

*THere's another word for that....*



prsboogie said:


> Irish Alzheimer's, he forgets everything but the grudges!!!



.... it's called a "tautology".

Nevertheless, you have indeed noticed that the OP's unrectified issue is five years old.  Why do you (incorrectly) assume the same of mine?


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## Cannonball (Apr 15, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> .... it's called a "tautology".
> 
> Nevertheless, you have indeed noticed that the OP's unrectified issue is five years old.  Why do you (incorrectly) assume the same of mine?



The OP doesn't seem to have an issue at all (in any state of rectification).  In fact he seems to have only good things to say about Ski Haus.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 15, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> .... it's called a "tautology".
> 
> Nevertheless, you have indeed noticed that the OP's unrectified issue is five years old.  Why do you (incorrectly) assume the same of mine?



Instead of just disparaging someone in your first post in a ski forum you may want to take the time to explain your beef with Ski Haus. Maybe you will get more sympathy from the forum members and highlight a legitimate issue with the store and it's owner. Or we may realize you are just a whiney customer with unrealistic expectations. But without your story you just come across as jerk.


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## prsboogie (Apr 15, 2015)

This


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## Puck it (Apr 15, 2015)

So what is your gripe? I have known Steve since the mid 90's


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## Sparafucile (Apr 15, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestion.  But I'm not eager for sympathy.  I'd merely like to caution others about the practices of the owner with whom I dealt directly.  Whether readers choose to heed my caution, or assess things as you did, is entirely up to them.

I'd love to supply more detail -- but I've found that preserving my anonymity is essential where conflicts with unethical people are concerned.

As for being a "whiney customer" -- that'd be a neat trick, given that I've been an avid skier for 30+ years, and boarder for just over 20, and have NEVER before published any complaint about a merchant or mountain.  In fact this "beef", as you called it, was significant enough to get me to sign up for this forum on which I've been lurking for years without any motivation to post, and consequently subject myself (albeit, pseudonymously) to the drivel of respondents who like to focus on parentheticals instead of the meat of anything I write.


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## Cannonball (Apr 15, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> I'd merely like to caution others about the practices of the owner with whom I dealt directly.  Whether readers choose to heed my caution, or assess things as you did, is entirely up to them.



It's hard to heed your caution without having any idea what the issue is.  



Sparafucile said:


> As for being a "whiney customer" -- that'd be a neat trick, given that I've been an avid skier for 30+ years, and boarder for just over 20, and have NEVER before published any complaint about a merchant or mountain.



You still really haven't published a complaint.  Just insults.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 15, 2015)

I think the bottom line is that if you want to be a constructive member than you're welcome to our Boards.  If you want to flame about an incident you had with a store, direct your ire at them directly.


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## ironhippy (Apr 15, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> Whether readers choose to heed my caution, or assess things as you did, is entirely up to them.



Why would I heed your caution? As far as I know you are the owner's ex wife who's pissed about a personal situation or maybe an owner of a competing sports store.

Vague, generic statements aren't going to sway anyone one way or another, so unless you are ready to talk about specifics, you're better off remaining silent.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 15, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> instead of the meat of anything I write.



Your posts mean nothing without the details. And no one will take you seriously until you give a clear description of why you hate this guy so much. You can still keep it relatively anonymous. So ...


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## JimG. (Apr 15, 2015)

Summer is near.


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## jrmagic (Apr 22, 2015)

Sparafucile said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  But I'm not eager for sympathy.  I'd merely like to caution others about the practices of the owner with whom I dealt directly.  Whether readers choose to heed my caution, or assess things as you did, is entirely up to them.
> 
> I'd love to supply more detail -- but I've found that preserving my anonymity is essential where conflicts with unethical people are concerned.
> 
> As for being a "whiney customer" -- that'd be a neat trick, given that I've been an avid skier for 30+ years, and boarder for just over 20, and have NEVER before published any complaint about a merchant or mountain.  In fact this "beef", as you called it, was significant enough to get me to sign up for this forum on which I've been lurking for years without any motivation to post, and consequently subject myself (albeit, pseudonymously) to the drivel of respondents who like to focus on parentheticals instead of the meat of anything I write.



Caution others about practices you won't detail???? Noone knows a thing about you. Why would they give your warning any credence? Either provide some details to substantiate your position or take your drivel and go back to your hole.


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## gmcunni (Feb 22, 2016)

this is all about Ski Haus in MA right?  not related to Ski Haus in CT and NY?

http://www.skihaus.com/  vs. http://www.skihausonline.com/


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## wa-loaf (Feb 22, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> this is all about Ski Haus in MA right?  not related to Ski Haus in CT and NY?
> 
> http://www.skihaus.com/  vs. http://www.skihausonline.com/



What are you digging this up for?


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## gmcunni (Feb 22, 2016)

wa-loaf said:


> What are you digging this up for?



shopping for boots, came across a sale @ Ski Haus of CT. wanted to confirm if they were OK place.


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## yeggous (Feb 22, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> shopping for boots, came across a sale @ Ski Haus of CT. wanted to confirm if they were OK place.



This thread is about Ski Haus in Burlington, MA and Salem, NH.


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## gmcunni (Feb 22, 2016)

yeggous said:


> This thread is about Ski Haus in Burlington, MA and Salem, NH.



that's what i thought (hoped).  don't seem to be related tho you'd think one of them would file suit for copyright on the name.


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## Abominable (Feb 23, 2016)

Ski Haus on Rt. 22 has been there for a long time.  I think I bought my Kemper Rampage there in about 1989.

Just your regular ski shop, but nice people and all that.  Nice to see they're still open.


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## gmcunni (Feb 23, 2016)

Abominable said:


> Ski Haus on Rt. 22 has been there for a long time.  I think I bought my Kemper Rampage there in about 1989.
> 
> Just your regular ski shop, but nice people and all that.  Nice to see they're still open.



boot fitting competence?


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## ss20 (Feb 23, 2016)

Abominable said:


> Ski Haus on Rt. 22 has been there for a long time.  I think I bought my Kemper Rampage there in about 1989.
> 
> Just your regular ski shop, but nice people and all that.  Nice to see they're still open.



Same in New Milford, CT.  Been there a long time with wonderful people.


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## Abominable (Feb 23, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> boot fitting competence?



Couldn't tell you, sorry.  Haven't been in there in ages, and don't ski (alpine).

BUT, just given the fact that it's (I assume) a family run place that has been there forever, and probably services a ton a family type skiers from Fairfield and Westchester counties, I'd have to assume they're fairly competent?  I mean, no less than any other small town independent ski store.


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## Hawkshot99 (Feb 23, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> boot fitting competence?



I would not go to their new store in Wappingers NY as I have heard and expierenced many bad employees and crapy service from their Poughkeepsie store that relocated there. But I have many good things from the Brewster store on Rt 22. Don't know much about the CT stores.


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