# Clueless Newbie Alert - How do I know what I need / want?



## WJenness (Oct 24, 2007)

Hello everyone,

I just started skiing towards the end of last season (March 10th or so) and got in about 8 or 10 days before the end of the year. All of it was on rental equipment, and as I intend to ski much more this year (and in future years) I'd like to get my own stuff.

I've read around here a bit, and know that boots that fit right are the most important thing, so I know what to do on that front... I'm a little more confused on the ski / binding / pole issue. I walked through the Sports Authority at the mall yesterday at lunch and they had a couple packages on sale (boots, skis, bindings, poles), for what looked to be decent prices. Is it worth giving these a shot? How much of a realistic shot of the boots fitting right do I have? Or am I better off piecing something together? If so, what would be a decent budget to start with? I don't want to repeat what I did when I started fencing... I bought a "starter set" and replaced almost everything from it before the end of my first season fencing... I'd rather make the 'right' initial investment that will keep me happy through at least the whole season. I'm thinking of getting one of these packages, and if the boots aren't perfect, replacing those fairly quickly, reasonable strategy?

Also, when people replace equipment, is it due to wearing it out? Stepping up to something newer and better? Progressing in ability past what you've got?

Sizing: sizing of boots is easiest... but what about skis? I'm 6'4" and about 230lbs, what should I be skiing on?

As for ability, towards the end of last season I was able to negotiate blues without much of an issue, but doing so with people passing me on my way down the hill. I could feel myself improving each time out though, so hopefully that will continue this winter. I made it down a couple of blacks without falling, but very cautiously with back and forth across the trail... not really skiing it.

I'm trying to learn about equipment and get it all figured out before it gets cold enough to hit the slopes.

I bought a bronze pass for Wachusett this winter and will hopefully be going a couple nights a week after work, and making some weekend trips up to Sunday River (a friend has a place at brookside).

Thanks in advance for any help / suggestions / guidance.

-w


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

Stay away from sports chains like the sports authority, especially for your boots.

Find a local ski shop; Strands in Worchester? Even Mountainside at WA, especially since you plan on skiing there a bit. Most boots aren't perfect to start with and need some tweaking to make them comfortable. If you buy them at a ski shop they will work with you to make them work for you. At sports authority you are on your own when you walk out the door. As far as skis go, again, a real shop will be able to give you advice on what would be the right pair of skis for you.


I did a quick search and you have Sport Loft right in Chelmsford and Zimmermans in Westford. Check either of those places out and you will get much better service and help than at a Sports Authority. Maybe you pay a little more, but you get what you pay for especially in the expertise and service department.


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## WJenness (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Stay away from sports chains like the sports authority, especially for your boots.
> 
> Find a local ski shop; Strands in Worchester? Even Mountainside at WA, especially since you plan on skiing there a bit. Most boots aren't perfect to start with and need some tweaking to make them comfortable. If you buy them at a ski shop they will work with you to make them work for you. At sports authority you are on your own when you walk out the door. As far as skis go, again, a real shop will be able to give you advice on what would be the right pair of skis for you.
> 
> ...



That was the feeling I had about SA, but didn't know if the fact that they were a big chain was more of the reason for their pricing (since they can buy a much larger quantity of inventory), but thought they might be the Wal*Mart of ski shops...

I also work in Woburn and there's a ski market here and ski haus over in Wilmington that I'm going to make a visit to. Any of these have a better reputation than others?

thanks again,

-w


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## hammer (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> That was the feeling I had about SA, but didn't know if the fact that they were a big chain was more of the reason for their pricing (since they can buy a much larger quantity of inventory), but thought they might be the Wal*Mart of ski shops...
> 
> I also work in Woburn and there's a ski market here and ski haus over in Wilmington that I'm going to make a visit to. Any of these have a better reputation than others?
> 
> ...


Never been to the Ski Haus but they seem to have a pretty good reputation.  Did a little window shopping at the Salem, NH store and the prices were pretty good.

I'd suggest that you also check out Ken Jones or Zimmerman's in Nashua...I've shopped at both and have had good service.  Prices at both are also reasonable...look for closeout specials or last year's models if they have them.


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

Ski Market has some knowledgeable people working at most stores, but it's hard to find any good deals there. Don't know Ski Haus.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> Sizing: sizing of boots is easiest... but what about skis? I'm 6'4" and about 230lbs, what should I be skiing on?



Welcome WJenness! To the forums and the great sport of skiing. Don't assume your street shoe size = ski boot size. If you find yourself in a shop that isn't shell sizing you first, leave.

To shell size you, the salesperson should pull the liner out of the boot and have you put your foot in the empty shell. Move your foot all the way to the front so your toes are touching the front of the shell. You should then only be able to slip one or two fingers between your heel and the back of the shell. Any more than that is too big. With this approach, you may find the correct sized boot is 1-2 sizes smaller than your street shoe size.

Once you have a few models with the proper shell size try them on with the liners back in and wear them for a while to identify any hot spots. Depending on your budget, you might want to consider a full on boot fitting (orthotics, balancing, canting, etc.). It might not do all that much for your skiing this early on, but not doing it might hold you back a bit once you become a solid upper intermediate. Provided the boot fits well, you can always do this later if cost is an issue. Look for an upper intermediate-lower advanced level boot you can ski on for 3+ seasons and grow into skill wise. Boots are the most important part so don't skimp, do your research (this thread is a great start) and don't get pressured into a premature purchase. The correct shell size is the single most important thing. The rest of the fit can be improved by a good boot fitter.

I don't have specific recommendations for skis. Sizing might vary based on model/ski type. Probably any modern solid intermediate ski should work. At your size, I would think you should be in the 160-175 cm range. Don't go too short. Again you want something you can "grow into" a bit.

Hope this helps.


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## WJenness (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Welcome WJenness! To the forums and the great sport of skiing. Don't assume your street shoe size = ski boot size. If you find yourself in a shop that isn't shell sizing you first, leave.
> 
> To shell size you, the salesperson should pull the liner out of the boot and have you put your foot in the empty shell. Move your foot all the way to the front so your toes are touching the front of the shell. You should then only be able to slip one or two fingers between your heel and the back of the shell. Any more than that is too big. With this approach, you may find the correct sized boot is 1-2 sizes smaller than your street shoe size.
> 
> ...



Greg,

Thanks for the reply... I meant sizing the boot was easy because I'd have someone help me at a shop... as for the orthodics, I already have some in my street and fencing shoes (Plantar Fasciitis is a bitch), should I reasonably expect to be able to use the same ones in ski boots (and obviously put them in while I'm trying boots on), or am I more likely to need a different solution?

Thanks,

-w


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> as for the orthodics, I already have some in my street and fencing shoes (Plantar Fasciitis is a bitch), should I reasonably expect to be able to use the same ones in ski boots (and obviously put them in while I'm trying boots on), or am I more likely to need a different solution?



I'm not qualified at all to answer that. That's a question for a boot fitter. Try here:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/17325-2007-08-resident-boot-fitter-thread.html

I would guess if the orthotics you have are usable, they may need to be trimmed to fit in the boot liner. Again, ski boots are generally fit more snugly than street shoes. Jeff Bokum (our "resident boot fitter") is in Concord, NH and may be worth a visit, especially if you have a condition like you describe. See the above thread for contact info.


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## Puck it (Oct 24, 2007)

Go to Ski Haus in Wilmington and ask for Mark or Steve(owner).  They will set you up for your ability.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm not qualified at all to answer that. That's a question for a boot fitter. Try here:
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/17325-2007-08-resident-boot-fitter-thread.html
> 
> I would guess if the orthotics you have are usable, they may need to be trimmed to fit in the boot liner. Again, ski boots are generally fit more snugly than street shoes. Jeff Bokum (our "resident boot fitter") is in Concord, NH and may be worth a visit, especially if you have a condition like you describe. See the above thread for contact info.



Depends on the orthotic...but its likely they won't fit into a ski boot, the heel cup in most street shoe orthotics is deeper and wider than what will normally fit into a ski boot.  If they need to be trimmed to fit your ski boot it may mean they'll no longer fit into your street shoes...best bet is to go see someone like Jeff...a C.Ped (certified pedorthist) who is qualified to build prescription orthotics but also has a solid understanding of ski equipment and the dynamics involved in the sport.  Plan to spend the most time and $$ on your boots...you can get into a new ski/binding system for around $499 to $599...less is you can find last year's stuff on sale.  Any one of the previously suggested shops can take good care of you...Zimmermans, Ski Haus, Strands, etc...check a couple out and see where you get the best service and feel most comfortable making your purchase.


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## snowmonster (Oct 24, 2007)

Welcome to the forum, WJEnness. There's a wealth of information in these forums and a lot of helpful people. Folks here have fueled my addiction and now I am a ski junkie! Anyway, I hope to ski with you at Sunday River this season.

Regarding ski length, the general rule is that the ski should reach between your chin and your forehead. Usually, the longer the ski, the higher your ability. Since you will be progressing in your skills, you may want to err on the side of buying a ski that is higher than your present skiing ability, that way you grow into it.

There are more considerations to choosing a ski such as type of terrain, sidecut, width, flex and all sorts of other permutations. You may want to consult this: http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=573

As for ski poles, it's the old rental shop test -- grasp an upside down pole beneath the basket while your arms are beside you and bent at a ninety degree angle. The one that touches the floor while your arm is at 90 degrees is the right length. Unless you're finicky about your gear or have specialized uses, the cheapest pole is usually the best.

I also recommend that you go to a ski shop. I agree that Ski Market is a good place to start because they usually have some guys on the floor who are knowledgeable about gear (and will talk your ear off about skiing if you let them -- look for these guys and not the ones who just want you to buy something quick). Because of their size, they usually carry a good range of gear from all the main brands. The downside to Ski Market is that their prices are pretty steep even when they're on sale.

One last tip: If you find something you like, you may also try to look for it online. There's a lot of stuff out there that you can get cheap from another part of the country. But, if you want to support the local economy, go on right ahead and patronize the ski shop down the street.


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

snowmonster said:


> There are more considerations to choosing a ski such as type of terrain, sidecut, width, flex and all sorts of other permutations. You may want to consult this: http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=573



Sierra Snowboard has some great deals if you are looking online, there are (or were) several skis/binding combos for $199 and $299. You can also ask them for help and they get right back to you. I bought boots from them and a few others on the site have gotten skis.



snowmonster said:


> One last tip: If you find something you like, you may also try to look for it online. There's a lot of stuff out there that you can get cheap from another part of the country. But, if you want to support the local economy, go on right ahead and patronize the ski shop down the street.



Unless you really know what you are doing stick to buying your boots at a shop.


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## snowmonster (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Unless you really know what you are doing stick to buying your boots at a shop.



Good catch, wa-loaf. I should have further qualified my advice by saying that the online route usually works only if you actually know what you want spec and size-wise. Do some reconnaissance first at a live ski shop or demo the skis so you know how you react to them before you make the financial commitment.


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## hammer (Oct 24, 2007)

snowmonster said:


> Good catch, wa-loaf. I should have further qualified my advice by saying that the online route usually works only if you actually know what you want spec and size-wise. Do some reconnaissance first at a live ski shop or demo the skis so you know how you react to them before you make the financial commitment.


Two other things to consider with purchasing at a local shop is that you don't pay for shipping (which you may or may not have to do with an online purchase) and that shops usually throw in mounting and binding adjustments with the purchase (which can run $20 - $30 depending).

My preference is to buy at a shop if the price is right...and you should be able to get the right price if you are patient and look at the right time of the season.


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## WJenness (Oct 24, 2007)

hammer said:


> My preference is to buy at a shop if the price is right...and you should be able to get the right price if you are patient and look at the right time of the season.



I'm all for supporting local businesses... but I've got to ask... when's the right time of the season? I'm assuming the end?

-w


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## MRGisevil (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> I'm all for supporting local businesses... but I've got to ask... when's the right time of the season? I'm assuming the end?
> 
> -w



Just missed it for the most part... tent sales start popping up around labor day and continue through the fall. I think there's a post with a list of them somewhere...

I'm not sure if this has been said, but put your money into your boots. When you first start skiing your skis aren't going to matter so much, meaning you wont really notice a difference between skis for a while. It's really important to have a good, sturdy & comfortable boot though.


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> I'm all for supporting local businesses... but I've got to ask... when's the right time of the season? I'm assuming the end?
> 
> -w



Lots of deals to be had in the spring when everyone is clearing out their inventories. Ski swap season is winding down, but there may still be some. You can find a list of them here:


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## MRGisevil (Oct 24, 2007)

Here is the list of sales:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/18084-2007-ski-swaps.html


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## hammer (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> I'm all for supporting local businesses... but I've got to ask... when's the right time of the season? I'm assuming the end?
> 
> -w


I was told that good times were around Labor Day and Columbus Day weekends and later in the season after the February vacation week.

You may still catch something now but November is the start of prime time IIRC.

If you want to check out a ski swap, there's one in Nashua at the end of November...I'm hoping to sell some leftover stuff there.


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## riverc0il (Oct 24, 2007)

WJenness said:


> I also work in Woburn and there's a ski market here and ski haus over in Wilmington that I'm going to make a visit to. Any of these have a better reputation than others?


Ski Haus is a great shop and have good packages. I got my first ski package from Ski Haus in Salem like twenty years ago and have been a repeat customer ever since. They will set you up right. Explain to them your situation and see what they have for lower intermediate packages. You should just go with a package since you are still learning to get the most bang for your buck... if you have a season pass, you will progress quickly and then start dialing in your gear preferences. Big deal is made about boot fit, and for sure there is a reason for it. I would trust Ski Haus to set you up right. I wouldn't bother with anything custom at your level but if you have the money then knock yourself out to get the best fit possible. I suspect you probably won't even know the difference... fit is really the most important issue as you want to be comfortable. Just remember that ski boots should be 'performance fit' ... so when I say comfortable boot fit, I don't mean sneaker comfortable. It should be tight out of the box but not painful. The liner will pack out quick. A good shop will pull out the liner and shell fit you first with two or three different boots, then have you try them on with the liner. If they don't do that, try a different shop before spending the money.


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## bigbog (Oct 24, 2007)

*...great advice all.....*

*W*,
 As mentioned, that shell-fit is the #1 test...  Learn about what type of foot-volume you possess...heel, ankle size...high or low mtn_peak over your instep, what width forefoot....etc.

$.01...for some education into the fun, technical aspects of skiing...Ron LeMaster's "The Skier's Edge" is the best $20 you'll ever spend..(just my $.01)...there are other great books, but this is a pretty good start. 
One can also learn by observing fluid skiers coming down the trails with the ability to maintain great balance.
Skiing _the view_/terrain well is pretty enjoyable....I think you'll find that after a while...you won't be concerned with how many skiers pass you...or how many you pass...   
NewEngland offers a lot of varied terrain...and is a lot of fun...outside of the race course.

$.01


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

There are also a few of us who ski nights at Wachusett regularly. So once the season gets going there'll be plenty of opportunities to meet up some nights.


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## Sky (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> There are also a few of us who ski nights at Wachusett regularly. So once the season gets going there'll be plenty of opportunities to meet up some nights.



Good call Loafer...I was about to say the same thing.

W...elcome to the forum and best of luck hunting for gear.  Boots first (as stated above) and poles wherever you can find them (sized per previous posts)....and if you're skiing @ Wa, I'd recommend demo-ing from the Mountainside Shop.  They typically prep several categories of skis (various ability ranges and lengths) and for short money ($35?) you can demo two maybe three pair in a night.  Sure that's an expensive way to ski for the entire season (and I'm not recommending you "demo" for the entire season), but at least you have a chance at finding a ski you like underfoot.

Regardless, welcome to the sport and to the forum...see you @ Wa.

Sky


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 24, 2007)

Sky said:


> I'd recommend demo-ing from the Mountainside Shop.  They typically prep several categories of skis (various ability ranges and lengths) and for short money ($35?) you can demo two maybe three pair in a night.  Sure that's an expensive way to ski for the entire season (and I'm not recommending you "demo" for the entire season), but at least you have a chance at finding a ski you like underfoot.
> 
> Sky



For a good intermediate on up I agree with you 100%.  For a person that has only skied on rentals, and not real knowledgeable of skis I wouldn't waste the money, unless you are getting from the shop you demoed, and they will remove the demo price from a sale.  The reason i say this, is that unless you know what you are feeling for you wont be able to tell the difference between similar skis.  You could tell the difference between a race ski and a park ski, but two competing skis, not gonna happen.

Find a good higher intermediate ski and use the things.  When you are ready for skis after them, then start demoing.

-------
For a recommendation I might consider a pair of Rossignal Z3's.  A real fun ski for skiing hard, but still great for a intermediate.


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## bigbog (Oct 26, 2007)

*just get outside with proper clothing...*

...get some boots on and rent a pair of skis...and see if it works.

Instead of the idiotic rambling...I should've said this in the beginning.


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