# Worst Ski Season Ever?



## boston_e (Feb 17, 2016)

Anyone remember a worse season than this one?

It has almost gotten to the point that it is like Mother Nature is playing a bad joke on us.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I'm having fun so far. Really tired of hearing all the doom & gloom.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 17, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm having fun so far. Really tired of hearing all the doom & gloom.



Agree!!

While certainly not an epic season thus far, I've come to realize that especially in the Northeast, the reality is over an entire season we might get on a good year 5 to maybe 10 days of GREAT skiing, a bunch of decent to good days and then some semi ugly to ugly days.  The weather variability is, and always has been, a characteristic of skiing in the Northeast.

I'm lucky enough that I get to ski a lot of days a season, most of which is based on my kids race and training schedule, so I'm going to go out and make some runs regardless of the weather and/or snow conditions.  Even this weekend when there was everything from serious cold to high winds to rain, I had a good time on the slopes, even if the slopes weren't at their best.

Has this season been historically good so far?  Nope.  That being said, I've still had a bunch of really good days that involved anything but powder and/or tree skiing (2 things that I DO enjoy for sure).  

Just think about it this way, if mother nature continues her challenging ways in New England this year, the reality is that the dreaded AZ "who's closed already" thread will start popping up in a couple of weeks, and could grow much quicker than usual this year   For all the folks holding on to various vouchers, sick days, etc with the hopes of things changing, would you rather at the end of your season still have a bunch of those on hand because those "epic" days you were hoping for never happened or would you rather have gotten in more "ok" days instead of less total ski days???  Time to make some lemonade out of the lemon of a season the next 2 to 6 weeks for most ski areas, and who knows how far beyond that for a few others???


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2016)

I enjoy skiing pretty much no matter what, but yes this is by far the worst season I can remember.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Feb 17, 2016)

Worst:


----------



## boston_e (Feb 17, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Agree!!
> 
> While certainly not an epic season thus far, I've come to realize that especially in the Northeast, the reality is over an entire season we might get on a good year 5 to maybe 10 days of GREAT skiing, a bunch of decent to good days and then some semi ugly to ugly days.  The weather variability is, and always has been, a characteristic of skiing in the Northeast.
> 
> ...



In general agree with this and am making the best of it and having some fun.  I'll still go up almost every weekend plus several extra holidays / when the kids are out of school.

Ratio this year though (at least for the days I have hit) has been zero GREAT days, a few decent to good days and mostly OK to semi-ugly days (and just skipped days that would have been really ugly)


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I've only had one ugly day so far & that's because of getting soaked in the rain. Skiing surfaces that day were actually quite good though & was lucky to ski with good company that day. While I haven't had any deep powder days I have had several days with with fresh snow overnight, a couple at Sugarbush earlier this season & three last week at K. Only 1" to 4" each time but it freshened things up nicely. Otherwise the areas have done a fantastic job with snowmaking & grooming. Soft bump skiing has been limited but I did get a few good runs in both on natural & manmade. I'm not complaining how my season has gone so far.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Feb 17, 2016)




----------



## cdskier (Feb 17, 2016)

Way too early to say whether it is the worst. For me the worst in recent memory was 2011-2012. I recall the end of March skiing Mt Ellen where you had to upload and download on GMX and there was still barely anything open up top (only 2 people were allowed per chair on Summit due to the narrow path you had to ski on when getting off the chair onto Panorama).


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 17, 2016)

Yes 11/12 was pretty bad. I believe that was the year with the Halloween storm then no snow again until last week of Feb then 80 degrees for St Patrick's day weekend.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Feb 17, 2016)

11/12 was bad, but not this bad.


----------



## faceplant (Feb 17, 2016)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/83/b5/dc/83b5dc6fe23c498c6cc842abfbd60a71.jpg


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Way too early to say whether it is the worst. For me the worst in recent memory was 2011-2012. I recall the end of March skiing Mt Ellen where you had to upload and download on GMX and there was still barely anything open up top (only 2 people were allowed per chair on Summit due to the narrow path you had to ski on when getting off the chair onto Panorama).



I was there for that. They closed the summit lift for about a 1/2 hour midday so ski patrol could put more snow where you get off the lift on top. They went into the woods & filled up toboggans with snow & then dumped it on the trail so you could ski off. This was on a Fri. I have no idea how they stayed open until Sun. which they did. The middle section under the lift actually had some nice spring bumps that day.


----------



## hammer (Feb 17, 2016)

Too early to tell, 2011/2012 was pretty bad...but I was looking up where camping shows were for this weekend...


----------



## from_the_NEK (Feb 17, 2016)

2012 snow depths = Not nearly as bad. Sure maybe it melted out quick but there were points during the season that you could ski in the woods:


----------



## Abubob (Feb 17, 2016)

I'm kinda lookin forward to skiing in 80º temps again in March. :smile:


----------



## from_the_NEK (Feb 17, 2016)

Abubob said:


> I'm kinda lookin forward to skiing in 80º temps again in March. :smile:



Careful what you wish for. If we hit 80 in March, the current man made snow pack would last maybe two days in many places.


----------



## HowieT2 (Feb 17, 2016)

I usually get 8-10 powder days a season.  I'm at 1.  and sugarbush has probably had more snow than anywhere else in the east. have to see how march plays out but to date, this has been as bad as I recall.  Not that I havent enjoyed skiing


----------



## redwinger (Feb 17, 2016)

I've had fun everyday out this year.  Yes, I wish some more challenging terrain was open, but fun none the less.  

The main thing this season has made me realize is that i need to increase my quiver to include a front side sudo race ski (thinking Kastle MX78 or RX12).


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2016)

from_the_NEK said:


> 2012 snow depths = Not nearly as bad. Sure maybe it melted out quick but there were points during the season that you could ski in the woods:



It ended fast for sure.  They had to make snow at Sugarloaf and Sunday River late Mach that season to absorb British Invasion business that Killington ended up turning away. However, as you say, there was at least a decent amount of snow that season until the nuclear melt down in March.  Killington received 152" on the season that year.  By far their worst total since 1988.  

This year 44" so far.   They need NINE feet of snow the rest of the year just to equal 2011-2012.  It's happened before on a handful of occasions.  Hopefully it does again this year.  

http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/mountain-info/snowmaking_snowfall


----------



## KevinF (Feb 17, 2016)

Granted, the 11/12 winter probably ended faster than anything else courtesy of a week of 60-degree days, but at the beginning of that stretch, EpicSki had the New England Gathering at Stowe and MRG.  The thread discussing that is pretty endless, but some of my pictures are here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/105860/the...2012-march-15th-18th-vermont/270#post_1446581

I skied Stowe's Chin Clip earlier this season during the week or so it was open...  trust me, it didn't look like it does in those pictures.  It was random piles of bumps around rock.

Yes, variances in the weather are part and parcel of the New England skiing experience.  I don't ever recall a winter that was so short on snow in the mountains.  The 06/07 winter (which eventually produced the Valentine's Day Storm) had a dreadful start, but it turned around in epic fashion...  This winter is doing nothing but producing sucker punches.

That said, I've still had fun on my various outings.  Skiing beats not skiing.


----------



## mikestaple (Feb 17, 2016)

Just left Killington a day early.  They are toast. (As is the rest of the northeast I'm guessing).  Rain locked in a solid 10 inch base.  Should keep them running through March 15th.  As expected an ice ladened mess today.  Nothing the grooming crew can do with that.  They are trying but nothing to work with.  Killington TV crew all geeked up over the prospect of a dusting to an inch in the next three days. 
Worst
Wintah
Evah!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Breakout12 (Feb 17, 2016)

It is for me!  I haven't even gotten out once yet.


----------



## Abubob (Feb 17, 2016)

from_the_NEK said:


> Careful what you wish for. If we hit 80 in March, the current man made snow pack would last maybe two days in many places.


I KNOW! I only wanted things to be a LITTLE warmer than last year.


----------



## dlague (Feb 17, 2016)

While the conditions have been tough, skiing overall has still been fun!  We have had a few crappy ice days and we had some really good days as well mostly due to snow making.  To date we are only 4 days off from last year.  I still hope to hit 50 days providing no supper warm ups and maybe a storm or two that might bring storms that have crystallized precipitation.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 17, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Way too early to say whether it is the worst. For me the worst in recent memory was 2011-2012. I recall the end of March skiing Mt Ellen where you had to upload and download on GMX and there was still barely anything open up top (only 2 people were allowed per chair on Summit due to the narrow path you had to ski on when getting off the chair onto Panorama).
> 
> View attachment 19046View attachment 19047



I skied sugarbush st Patrick's day week that year, first day skiing was about 45 by Wednesday it was 70. I went to Burlington one day and it was 83 degrees. I skied the whole week in a t shirt and wore shorts when I wasn't skiing


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 17, 2016)

the only thing we have going for us right now is the Lindsey Vonn thread...........thats it !!


----------



## farlep99 (Feb 17, 2016)

Whether or not one has fun skiing is irrelevant to the OP question.  Yes, this is the worst winter ever condition-wise, at least back to the mid-90's which is as far back as I can remember.  Look at forecast for Saturday.  47 & rain Saturday.  That's 2 blowtorch rain events in one week.  In mid-February!  Ouch.  I only hope March brings some redemption.


----------



## dlague (Feb 17, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> Whether or not one has fun skiing is irrelevant to the OP question.  Yes, this is the worst winter ever condition-wise, at least back to the mid-90's which is as far back as I can remember.  Look at forecast for Saturday.  47 & rain Saturday.  That's 2 blowtorch rain events in one week.  In mid-February!  Ouch.  I only hope March brings some redemption.



I will call it that in May!


----------



## cdskier (Feb 17, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> It ended fast for sure.  They had to make snow at Sugarloaf and Sunday River late Mach that season to absorb British Invasion business that Killington ended up turning away. However, as you say, there was at least a decent amount of snow that season until the nuclear melt down in March.  Killington received 152" on the season that year.  By far their worst total since 1988.
> 
> This year 44" so far.   They need NINE feet of snow the rest of the year just to equal 2011-2012.  It's happened before on a handful of occasions.  Hopefully it does again this year.
> 
> http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/mountain-info/snowmaking_snowfall



What is interesting is that Sugarbush has almost an identical snowfall total at this point this season as it had in 2011-2012 (105" this year vs 103" on 2/17/12). Granted in 2012 they did have much more base right now on the mountain due to less mid-season thaws and rain.

I've already skied significantly more so far this season compared to the entire 2011-2012 season.  I did learn a lot from that season though. That year I tried to plan ahead too much about which weekends to go up to VT. Now I just plan to go pretty much every weekend and make the best of whatever is out there. 

Like I said earlier though, it is still way too early to call this the worst season. I'm still optimistic that we can get some big dumps and have a great March and April to make all this talk about this being the worst season completely irrelevant...


----------



## flakeydog (Feb 17, 2016)

I know it is not the the same but a nod to having fun in "sh!t-f*ck" conditions.  
https://youtu.be/m4u_z3T9U-8
https://youtu.be/m4u_z3T9U-8

Really just a typical day in the east.  In reality, i can have fun skiing just about anything but yeah, it's been a bit rugged this year...


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 17, 2016)

The Poconos seem to be doing well.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Feb 17, 2016)

Getting the dayzzz in, but they're a lot shorter with the repetitive groomers. The liver has gotten more of a work-out than my legs...


----------



## 4aprice (Feb 17, 2016)

I would say in 50 years of skiing that this is a bleak as it gets and in many ways parallels the 97-98 year which was another very strong El Nino.  I did all my 9 days skiing in the Rockies that season.  I keep thinking that there will be at least one more storm cycle that produces enough to salvage at least March in NNE as the El Nino dies.  That happened in 97-98 where an early month storm produced at least a couple of weeks of good skiing in NE. I personally have had a different but decent season so far.  Days are way down of course but I had a super busy Christmas so the little skiing I would have done then isn't a great loss.  Props to my home hill for getting the mountain 100% open after a trying start.  They got that done just in time for the storm we had down here which gave us a 2 week period of very good skiing. Rain, then one weekend of Pocono Pavement, then a good resurfacing job before last weekend which was good again.  Now it looks like spring this weekend which should be enjoyable.  I've got a bunch of Vermont Tickets so I'm still hoping for a little rebound in March to spend those.  Of course if the snow doesn't come to you, one must go to the snow so I'm saving the best for last and taking a trip out west in April.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## Puck it (Feb 17, 2016)

Yup. A broken shoulder makes the worse for me. At least you guys are skiing!  So shut up!


----------



## ss20 (Feb 17, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm having fun so far. Really tired of hearing all the doom & gloom.



Holy crap yes.  

I spend most of my time on man-made flatland snow anyway.  When I have been "big mountain" skiing it's been OK.  

We're having a typical CT Flatland winter, which means snow and 10 degrees one day, followed by rain and 50 degrees.  Unfortunately Ski Country is getting this type of winter as well.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2016)

Cdskier glad SB is working out this year. 

Yup, don't know unless you go.  Of course that decision is a bit more difficult when driving all the way up from NJ.  It's not that big of a deal for me if I drive two hours up to Wildcat and conditions are poor.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Feb 17, 2016)

For me worst season ever , ZERO days due to Hip Replacement surgery. Sux


----------



## from_the_NEK (Feb 17, 2016)




----------



## chuckstah (Feb 17, 2016)

This year has been very poor for sure. Worst ever?  Thinking no. Some really bad years in the 80s if my failing memory serves me right. Sure it's been mainly groomers, but there have been some great spring bumps as well.  Out of season for sure but fun none the less.  Two weeks in the woods but nothing deep enough to rip.  2-3 good spring storms could quiet the gloom and doom. Hell, i went for a snowshoe today in southern NH. I think we had a net gain in snow as it only rained hard for a short time after an icy 2".   Pic from couple hours ago. Still a decent base where it is useless to most.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2016)

It's not like I'm 65 years old, but of the ski seasons I do remember, this is easily the #1 worst ever.

I've never before cancelled more trips than I've had trips.  Not going to Vermont again this weekend!


----------



## Edd (Feb 17, 2016)

It is Feb 17. Everyone lay down and relax.  Also, I'm drunk.


----------



## mriceyman (Feb 17, 2016)

Edd said:


> It is Feb 17. Everyone lay down and relax.  Also, I'm drunk.



Classic


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 17, 2016)

its been pretty bleak but aside from just really loathing a packed groomers only day of stratton, i haven't had any "bad" days per se. best days were clearly out west, but my day at mad river glen was tons of fun, even in the woods, with some fresh snow. my smuggler's weekend wasn't what a smuggler's weekend could and should be, but i got to spend a solid 4 hour chunk skiing groomers with my girlfriend, and that never happens otherwise. 

they're talking about big stuff next week. i hope it materializes. not even taking the max pass into account, i still have a day each at magic, plattekill, cannon, whiteface, gore, bolton, burke, middlebury, and killington all vouchered up and ready to go. 

this weekend is tricky. best chance of all snow seems to be north and west, so whiteface. but my card is blacked out thru the 21st. only free skiing this weekend is max pass and that all seems to be in the saturday rain zone.


----------



## snoseek (Feb 17, 2016)

That video looks like tahoe last year haha. 

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


----------



## joshua segal (Feb 17, 2016)

I admit to not having read the entire thread.  But as bad as this season has been, the title needs to be modified to "Worst Ski Season Ever in the Snowmaking Era." There were many seasons back then were 60 days seasons (or less) were routine.  

But in the snowmaking era, a few competitors for "Worst Ski Season Ever in the Snowmaking Era" include 2011-2, 1979-80, 1973-4.  There were a few rough years in the late 80s, but the specific years of the season are eluding me.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Yup, don't know unless you go.  Of course that decision is a bit more difficult when driving all the way up from NJ.



Absolutely, don't know unless you go. 5 hr. drive from NYC has no bearing on my decision.

By the way it's snowing on K's webcam right now. Maybe another sleeper.


----------



## cdskier (Feb 17, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Cdskier glad SB is working out this year.
> 
> Yup, don't know unless you go.  Of course that decision is a bit more difficult when driving all the way up from NJ.  It's not that big of a deal for me if I drive two hours up to Wildcat and conditions are poor.



You get used to the 5 hour drive surprisingly quickly. If I was paying for a ticket each time I'd be thinking twice, but being a passholder makes the decision much easier. At the very least I get some form of skiing in and enjoy some good food. I can't say there's a weekend I went this year where I didn't enjoy the skiing. Even skiing groomers is better than sitting home.


----------



## cdskier (Feb 17, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I was there for that. They closed the summit lift for about a 1/2 hour midday so ski patrol could put more snow where you get off the lift on top. They went into the woods & filled up toboggans with snow & then dumped it on the trail so you could ski off. This was on a Fri. I have no idea how they stayed open until Sun. which they did. The middle section under the lift actually had some nice spring bumps that day.



Yup...this was on a Friday. I guess you were one of the other dozen or so people there that day! And yes, Lookin Good had some nice little spring bumps.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Yup...this was on a Friday. I guess you were one of the other dozen or so people there that day! And yes, Lookin Good had some nice little spring bumps.



Small world. If I remember right I was at LP in the morning & they closed Snowball/Spring Fling for you guessed it, no snow. Only Steins remained open which I did a couple of runs on. Can't handle bashing bumps on Steins all day so went over to Ellen figuring it would be better. It was but not by much. GMX was carry your ski's & they slowed the lift for people to on & off load. Like most other ski days I really enjoyed myself.


----------



## Los (Feb 17, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> Whether or not one has fun skiing is irrelevant to the OP question.



THANK YOU. People are tripping over themselves to show how upbeat and positive they are. Not the point - it can be assumed that the vast majority of people reading this forum are die hards who will find joy in skiing even the toughest conditions. 

Whether or not this is the absolute worst (hard to believe it's not), the reality is that the length of time in between poor ski seasons is becoming shorter and shorter. There may be a few more epic ski seasons in the cards, but they are endangered and, sadly, will most likely be extinct in the not too distant future.

Edit: Just sayin'.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

mikestaple said:


> Just left Killington a day early.  They are toast.



That's not what I read from today's reports.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

Los said:


> THANK YOU. People are tripping over themselves to show how upbeat and positive they are. Not the point - it can be assumed that the vast majority of people reading this forum are die hards who will find joy in skiing even the toughest conditions.
> 
> Whether or not this is the absolute worst (hard to believe it's not), the reality is that the length of time in between poor ski seasons is becoming shorter and shorter. There may be a few more epic ski seasons in the cards, but they are endangered and, sadly, will most likely be extinct in the not too distant future.
> 
> Edit: Just sayin'.




Oh you're one of those.


----------



## Rowsdower (Feb 17, 2016)

Worst year since I started snowboarding around 2002. Not even 2011/2012 was as bad by a long shot. 

Besides one week it hasn't felt like winter at all. 

And honestly, at this point im looking ahead to next year.


----------



## Bumpsis (Feb 17, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Oh you're one of those.



So am I. The trends are not looking good.


----------



## catsup948 (Feb 17, 2016)

Look at snowfall numbers vs actual precip, temperature departures and seasonal snow totals across the northeast.  This winter has flat out been the worst in history.  Embrace it... Sure.  Ski.. I'm close to 40 days.  But try to put any happy spin on this abortion of a winter, no way!


----------



## ALLSKIING (Feb 17, 2016)

mikestaple said:


> Just left Killington a day early.  They are toast. (As is the rest of the northeast I'm guessing).  Rain locked in a solid 10 inch base.  Should keep them running through March 15th.  As expected an ice ladened mess today.  Nothing the grooming crew can do with that.  They are trying but nothing to work with.  Killington TV crew all geeked up over the prospect of a dusting to an inch in the next three days.
> Worst
> Wintah
> Evah!
> ...



That's a shame! Tomorrow I'll be skiing under the guns on superstar!  Powder...hardly but way better then calling it early.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> That's a shame! Tomorrow I'll be skiing under the guns on superstar!  Powder...hardly but way better then calling it early.


Heard they have the 7 gun salute going up top again. Upper Skyelark lit up too.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Feb 17, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Heard they have the 7 gun salute going up top again.



That's the word....probably warm enough for pics tomorrow.


----------



## gladerider (Feb 17, 2016)

absolutely the worst ever. 11/12 was not this bad.
just came back from a week of Jay Peak. have never seen snow pack this thin in middle of february.
i have another week planned up in tremblant in march. crossing my fingers.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 17, 2016)

Rowsdower said:


> Worst year since I started snowboarding around 2002. Not even 2011/2012 was as bad by a long shot.
> 
> Besides one week it hasn't felt like winter at all.
> 
> And honestly, at this point im looking ahead to next year.


It's all in the timing, always is in the northeast. I've had plenty of winter so far. Midweek  next week will be another winner.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2016)

Los said:


> the reality is that* the length of time in between poor ski seasons is becoming shorter and shorter. There may be a few more epic ski seasons in the cards, but they are endangered and, sadly, will most likely be extinct in the not too distant future.*



Yes, this is all due to Global Warming.  

It has nothing to do with a highly predictable meteorological phenomena at all, instead it's all attributable to the *1 *degree Fahrenheit surface anomaly increase in temperature that has _slowly _occurred over the last 80 years (aka Global Warming).


----------



## Savemeasammy (Feb 18, 2016)

Los said:


> THANK YOU. People are tripping over themselves to show how upbeat and positive they are. Not the point - it can be assumed that the vast majority of people reading this forum are die hards who will find joy in skiing even the toughest conditions.
> 
> Edit: Just sayin'.



Spot on.  This thread is full of aspiring politicians who are answering a question that wasn't even asked...  That you are enjoying the season and/or making the most of it (EVERYONE on this forum is doing that) is irrelevant.  As far as ski seasons go, THIS season has royally sucked.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Spot on.  This thread is full of aspiring politicians who are answering a question that wasn't even asked...  That you are enjoying the season and/or making the most of it (EVERYONE on this forum is doing that) is irrelevant.  As far as ski seasons go, THIS season has royally sucked.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



More like as a natural snow season it has sucked.


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 18, 2016)

gladerider said:


> i have another week planned up in tremblant in march. crossing my fingers.



Ottawa got 2+ feet of snow on Tuesday, Tremblant is a bit north and it appears as if they didn't get any rain. Best (east coast) conditions outside of the Gaspe right now and it might even be a bit better because the Gaspe did get rain this week.


----------



## jack97 (Feb 18, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> More like as a natural snow season it has sucked.



I've been going to Wildcat, the place got some natural and left some of the trails ungroomed. I've skied on my rock skis more and its another hour for a trip but I'm having a blast.


----------



## dlague (Feb 18, 2016)

http://protectourwinters.org


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Savemeasammy (Feb 18, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> More like as a natural snow season it has sucked.



Really?  The warm temps don't also qualify?  Lets be real...  


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Really?  The warm temps don't also qualify?  Lets be real...


December was about as bad as it gets for snowmaking.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 18, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Really?  The warm temps don't also qualify?  Lets be real...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app



Last weekend was the 1st weekend of the year for me that I needed to wear 2 face masks and wore my insulated snowpants for the 1st time this season, and I've been every weekend since Thanksgiving - not complaining about the warmer temps, as some of those warmer temps have meant skiing when its 20 degrees out rather than 0 degrees.

The mountains that can make snow in a big way have been pretty decent since basically New Years when we got a decent run of temperatures for about 2 weeks.

If your preference and/or home hill relies more on the natural snow and/or doesn't have some solid snowmaking "horsepower" yup, this season has sucked


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Last weekend was the 1st weekend of the year for me that I needed to wear 2 face masks and wore my insulated snowpants for the 1st time this season, and I've been every weekend since Thanksgiving - not complaining about the warmer temps, as some of those warmer temps have meant skiing when its 20 degrees out rather than 0 degrees.
> 
> The mountains that can make snow in a big way have been pretty decent since basically New Years when we got a decent run of temperatures for about 2 weeks.
> 
> If your preference and/or home hill relies more on the natural snow and/or doesn't have some solid snowmaking "horsepower" yup, this season has sucked



Optimism is great, but I don't get why people are trying to polish a turd.  The question is very simple.  Is this the worst ski season ever?  Not, "Have you still had fun." Not, "Have you had good timing this season and taken advantage of the few bright spots."

Very simple question, "Is this the worst ski season ever?"

If it is not the worst, then the answer should be, "No, 1982-83 was much worse and here's why." 

We are experiencing the low water mark not only in terms of natural snow, but likely sustained man made snow production and preservation as well. 

I started skiing in January of 1983.  I have not seen a worse winter than this one.  That's being real; not doom and gloom.   It would take a historic turn around like 06-07 to change that.  We're running out of time.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Feb 18, 2016)

The op's question was objective.  Many of the responses are subjective.  

Know the difference.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## drjeff (Feb 18, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Optimism is great, but I don't get why people are trying to polish a turd.  The question is very simple.  Is this the worst ski season ever?  Not, "Have you still had fun." Not, "Have you had good timing this season and taken advantage of the few bright spots."
> 
> Very simple question, "Is this the worst ski season ever?"
> 
> ...




I understand your point DHS,  I though still think that for those of us that have been skiing for 30 to 40 years, that it's tough to compare "bad" seasons from say the early 80's vs today.  The ski industry as a whole has just changed so much, and frankly nowadays can do way more (snow surface quantity and quality wise) today than they could back then.  That IS a factor for me, what they can produce today on their own, and not just how much is mother nature helping to augment what the mountain ops folks can do.

Do I remember skiing just snowmaking trails and groomers at my home hill back in the early 80's a season or 2? Yup

Do I feel that this year has been as "bad" as those years back then were?  Nope, simply because I've had more terrain that has been covered, and many days covered with GOOD quality snow rather than the glorified ice that 80's snowmaking systems and groomers often produced, for my enjoyment, especially the last 6 weeks after a very slow start, but not unprecedented in my skiing career, during the 1st 6 weeks of my ski season this year

If someone has only been skiing less than say 10 to 15 years, sure this season I'm guessing is the worst ever for them, for me though,  It just doesn't seem to stick out as the "worst ever" in my mind


----------



## dlague (Feb 18, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Optimism is great, but I don't get why people are trying to polish a turd.  The question is very simple.  Is this the worst ski season ever?  Not, "Have you still had fun." Not, "Have you had good timing this season and taken advantage of the few bright spots."
> 
> Very simple question, "Is this the worst ski season ever?"
> 
> ...





Savemeasammy said:


> The op's question was objective.  Many of the responses are subjective.
> 
> Know the difference.
> 
> ...



Savemeasammy is right!  Someone might be having their best season ever right now because their point of reference is based not on the amount of snow, temps or weather patterns.  If someone is not into tree or bump skiing and are OK with skiing groomed runs then it might be fine.  It is all relative to your personal experience and point of view.  For many last year between late December and late January it sucked and then we got plenty of snow but we also got a long cold spell which many did not like.  We skied the cold days last year - this year because there were so few really cold days we skipped the brutal cold of last weekend which conditions wise might have been the best this year.  Last year the snow quality and quantity was great but many on this forum did not want a repeat of the cold from last year.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2016)

drjeff said:


> I understand your point DHS,  I though still think that for those of us that have been skiing for 30 to 40 years, that it's tough to compare "bad" seasons from say the early 80's vs today.  The ski industry as a whole has just changed so much, and frankly nowadays can do way more (snow surface quantity and quality wise) today than they could back then.  That IS a factor for me, what they can produce today on their own, and not just how much is mother nature helping to augment what the mountain ops folks can do.
> 
> Do I remember skiing just snowmaking trails and groomers at my home hill back in the early 80's a season or 2? Yup
> 
> ...



Okay, so you're saying the early 80s may have been worse than this on February 18th? 






Then I take it all back.  I started skiing in 83, which I guess is the mid 80s.  I haven't seen it this bad in my skiing life.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2016)

dlague said:


> Savemeasammy is right!  Someone might be having their best season ever right now because their point of reference is based not on the amount of snow, temps or weather patterns.  If someone is not into tree or bump skiing and are OK with skiing groomed runs then it might be fine.  It is all relative to your personal experience and point of view.  For many last year between late December and late January it sucked and then we got plenty of snow but we also got a long cold spell which many did not like.  We skied the cold days last year - this year because there were so few really cold days we skipped the brutal cold of last weekend which conditions wise might have been the best this year.  Last year the snow quality and quantity was great but many on this forum did not want a repeat of the cold from last year.



Um Dave.....you need to reread Savemeasammy's post

:lol:


----------



## Tin (Feb 18, 2016)

dlague said:


> Savemeasammy is right!


----------



## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2016)

Have had a lot of fun this season and tried to make the best of it, but it is by far the worst season I have ever seen and the data shows it. I think the two are intertwined but separate items.

Some community areas will be lucky to survive.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Um Dave.....you need to reread Savemeasammy's post
> 
> :lol:



He was saying objective vs subjective. I still think the statement "Worst ski season ever" is subjective.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Feb 18, 2016)

Worst season = objective

YOUR worst season = subjective


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## cdskier (Feb 18, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> He was saying objective vs subjective. I still think the statement "Worst ski season ever" is subjective.



Agreed. What is the definition of "worst"? Has this season been bad? At times, yes. There have also been legitimately good days though if you caught the timing right. Can anyone definitively say it is the worst? Not at this point as you need to look at the entirety of the season once it is actually over. For me January-early April is the main season. From that pov, we're only just over half-way through and can still have a great second half. To me December (and November) is always a bonus in the east as is late April/May.

Weather can change quickly. A big dump or two of snow and all of a sudden people will start laughing about this topic.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Worst season = objective
> 
> YOUR worst season = subjective
> 
> ...



disagree both are subjective. Now if you said warmest or the least snowiest then that is objective but that isn't what was said.

I do think it has sucked


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2016)

Nine pages of bickering about the definition of "worst" speaks for itself.  This season sucks in the Northeast.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 18, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Okay, so you're saying the early 80s may have been worse than this on February 18th?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess I look at it differently.

To me, If it's a snowmaking trail, I will expect it to be open and in decent shape by Mid January.  If it's a natural snow trail, as I'm guessing the one in the picture you posted is as I don't recognize that trail and/or see any sign of pipes along the side of it, then as a REALISTIC New Enlgand skier,  I know that those are way more of a crap shoot.  Without a doubt I'm guessing, what frozen stuff is on the trail in the picture you posted (using "snowpack" I'm guessing is a bit of a reach  ) is very low, if not historic for mid February (who knows if some February thaws in the past took it down to those levels or not??)  however, especially as someone who's spent most of my skiing career on Mountains South of mid VT or mid NH, there have been some years when I haven't been able to ski all the trails in a season (one of my annual goals) because the snowpack either was never deep enough, or in some cases never safe enough due to freezing up solid and no natural on top of it to all me to ski it.

For natural snow trails, this year has sucked, no ifs and's or buts about it.  For snowmaking trails, while the start of the season generally sucked, they have been decent more days than not the last 6 weeks, and that's something that I couldn't always say back in the 80's.

My determination of what makes a bad season has evolved over the years, and is something today that is different than yours, and others here.  That is cool with me.  As long as I have some snow to slide down the hill on, I generally content.  For sure though some days are more memorable than others (both good and bad), and this year when I likely look back on it in a few months when it's July and 90 degrees out, probably won't have a ton of GREAT days (I have had a few though this year), and likely will have more days that either weren't memorable at all or that are memorable for some rough conditions.  That's all part of a ski season for me today, and has been since 1979 when I made my 1st turns


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 18, 2016)

I remember ski areas being closed this time of the year before the advent of snowmaking. So no it's not the worst I've seen. Not that I was alive then but did you know that the first year MRG was scheduled to open they never did because of lack of snow.

I started skiing in 1960 so I've been around longer than most here.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Feb 18, 2016)

79/80 was worse AND we had limited sm.In the 90's I remember Cannon closing on St Patricks day weekend.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 18, 2016)

This season is just getting started IMO and I've had mainly great days and skied plenty of fun woods; although I've had to reduce the number of days to avoid crappy skiing. Missed out on the short good period early in the season due to work and got a late jump on the season.

A couple more big storms and we'll have a good spring.

Right now the best place to go is Mad River Glen or Sugarbush, they've had the most snow and if you don't mind thin cover here and there you can ski just about everything there.

As for whether or not I can remember a worse year: not really. But recent seasons have been mostly awesome so I don't mind a glitch every decade or so.

You can tell a lot of mountains basically threw in the hat this year to save money.


----------



## slatham (Feb 18, 2016)

As far as Presidents week at Mt Snow over the past 12 years, this Presidents week has been the worst without argument as per my group of 15+ that have skied it every year. Natural snow depth is the least, terrain open is the least (even with better snowmaking) and surface conditions the worst (a rain day followed by a hard freeze). Simply ugly. 

Looking back further I do have clear recollection of '82/83 where in NH it was beyond abysmal. I have no hard facts or stats, but my recollection was that winter would be worse. In Plymounth NH I recall only one snow of 5-6" and that was it. Long time ago but clearly an ugly winter. 

I will also note, as it was above, that this winter is not over and there is hope! But so far it has been overly painful to be a skier in the East.


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Right now the best place to go is Mad River Glen



FYI to random people lurking this forum for info on conditions: the above poster has a weak grip on reality.  Please read MRG's own conditions report before choosing to go there.


----------



## Edd (Feb 18, 2016)

I finally bought some carvers last week, inspired by dismal conditions. Head Supreme Instinct ti. Tested them today at Gunstock and I like them. 13m turn radius in a 170 length. Hopefully, a part time ski but nice to have for the lean times.


----------



## cdskier (Feb 18, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> FYI to random people lurking this forum for info on conditions: the above poster has a weak grip on reality.  Please read MRG's own conditions report before choosing to go there.



Maybe Tuna hasn't been following the weather/snow conditions since prior to the rain event the other day. MRG does have very open and honest reports which is nice to see. Actually, right now their report is surprisingly more positive than you would have expected after the recent weather. Obviously a lot of trails are closed though.


----------



## Los (Feb 18, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yes, this is all due to Global Warming.
> 
> It has nothing to do with a highly predictable meteorological phenomena at all, instead it's all attributable to the *1 *degree Fahrenheit surface anomaly increase in temperature that has _slowly _occurred over the last 80 years (aka Global Warming).



Whatever you need to tell yourself. 

If skiers are not unified in understanding that this needs to be addressed NOW, it's very difficult to believe humanity will do anything to save our winters. 

Our ski seasons on average are going to continue getting worse and worse. If we fail to take collective action, which appears likely, skiing will become extinct. And sooner rather than later. 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...anthropocene_or_age_of_man_began_in_1610.html


----------



## Jcb890 (Feb 18, 2016)

I've had a blast this season and have gone snowboarding a lot... but most of it has been at the local mountain in MA.  Only one trip up North to VT so far this season because the snow has been so crappy.

So, yes, I've had a lot of fun.  But, yes, this might be the worst ski season ever for me from a weather standpoint.

Heck, I've even had 1 real powder day locally in MA... that was a blast!  And 1 other fresh snow day here in MA also.  I'm certainly not complaining about that.

At this point, I/we are all just holding out hope things get better.  Let's all pray that storm projected for the middle of next week (Wed/Thurs) slams New England with heavy snow, up Needs it bad.


----------



## dlague (Feb 18, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> disagree both are subjective. Now if you said warmest or the least snowiest then that is objective but that isn't what was said.
> 
> I do think it has sucked



Agree!  The question has no context.  My worst season was when I tore my ACL.

The question should be - is this the worst season ever with respect to conditions and weather?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 18, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Maybe Tuna hasn't been following the weather/snow conditions since prior to the rain event the other day. MRG does have very open and honest reports which is nice to see. Actually, right now their report is surprisingly more positive than you would have expected after the recent weather. Obviously a lot of trails are closed though.



Yeah its a lot of frozen granular. I didn't say go now lol. But mad river valley is where the best base is and where the skiing will be really nice once it either snows more or thaws a little. Only reason anything is closed at either Sugar or MRG is icyness. There's no lack of snow at either.

Also... global warming... :lol:  ... where do I sign up to pay my taxes to the United Nations and Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio? Each fart is going to be 50 cents.

A link to a Slate blog as well. That proves it. Maybe Jezebel.com has some good articles about that as well.

All of a sudden El Nino hits and "global warming!" even though we've still managed to shatter record lows all over the country at times. Have you forgotten recent history? I'm sure you'll say "But California!". Do you know what a high pressure ridge is?

Learn more about weather before you demand collective action from every human on Earth.

Otherwise put your money where your mind is, and sing along.


----------



## Edd (Feb 18, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> the above poster has a weak grip on reality.



Tuna,

This quote pretty much applies to post # 95.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Feb 18, 2016)

Skied under the guns all day today! Awesome day.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2016)

Was at pats peak this afternoon. Still coverage on everything. Groomers skied well. Didn't hit Hurricane or Vortex those were looking sketchy.


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Right now the best place to go is Mad River Glen or Sugarbush,





bdfreetuna said:


> I didn't say go now lol.



Fight it out amongst yourself.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> Fight it out amongst yourself.



Lol


----------



## mikestaple (Feb 18, 2016)

Tuesday. 11:15.  Ramshead area.  All double blacks ice slicked and closed.  No serious snow in the forecast.  Believe what you want from Killington's pr machine.  But they and the rest of the northeast is toast.  And K has great snowmaking.  The loaf lost half their trails according to today's trail report.  They are running snowmaking on their season opening trails (Tote, Winter's etc).   Big places with snow making are scrambling and praying to save the spring.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 18, 2016)

mikestaple said:


> View attachment 19102
> Tuesday. 11:15.  Ramshead area.  All double blacks ice slicked and closed.  No serious snow in the forecast.  Believe what you want from Killington's pr machine.  But they and the rest of the northeast is toast.  And K has great snowmaking.  The loaf lost half their trails according to today's trail report.  They are running snowmaking on their season opening trails (Tote, Winter's etc).   Big places with snow making are scrambling and praying to save the spring.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Well isn't that the Ugly Truth !! 
Why on earth do I have to enjoy Weather dependent sports. 
Oh well there always Beer  !


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## joshua segal (Feb 18, 2016)

Bad season or not, Killington will be open in May this year - but probably not June.


----------



## chuckstah (Feb 18, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Bad season or not, Killington will be open in May this year - but probably not June.



Safe bet.  They have only closed 3 times in April in recent memory, two of them by choice with the then new Powdr regime, and haven't been open in June since 2002.  I just hope a couple other resorts make May to spread out whatever skiers may be left at that point.  Sunday River has committed to May, but it's weather dependent as it is everywhere.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Feb 18, 2016)

mikestaple said:


> View attachment 19102
> Tuesday. 11:15.  Ramshead area.  All double blacks ice slicked and closed.  No serious snow in the forecast.  Believe what you want from Killington's pr machine.  But they and the rest of the northeast is toast.  And K has great snowmaking.  The loaf lost half their trails according to today's trail report.  They are running snowmaking on their season opening trails (Tote, Winter's etc).   Big places with snow making are scrambling and praying to save the spring.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Today at k!


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 18, 2016)

mikestaple said:


> View attachment 19102
> Tuesday. 11:15.  Ramshead area.  All double blacks ice slicked and closed.  No serious snow in the forecast.  Believe what you want from Killington's pr machine.  But they and the rest of the northeast is toast.  And K has great snowmaking.  The loaf lost half their trails according to today's trail report.  They are running snowmaking on their season opening trails (Tote, Winter's etc).   Big places with snow making are scrambling and praying to save the spring.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



That's freakin Ramshead. Header has not been blown above tower 7 all season. It's looked the same as it does there even in the best of times this year. I'll call BS.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> That's freakin Ramshead. Header has not been blown above tower 7 all season. It's looked the same as it does there even in the best of times this year. I'll call BS.



It's a real picture.  It's horrible.   It's a reflection of how horrible this season has been.  No place in VT should look like this on 02/18.


----------



## Newpylong (Feb 19, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> That's freakin Ramshead. Header has not been blown above tower 7 all season. It's looked the same as it does there even in the best of times this year. I'll call BS.



It's just showing how bad of a year it is for K to make the call not to make snow on their signature Rams Head trail which has had snow made on it every year since the double was there. I don't think he was insinuating that it was ever open earlier in the year.


----------



## WWF-VT (Feb 19, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> Skied under the guns all day today! Awesome day.



Skiing under the guns in *February *and calling it an awesome day is indicative of how bad this season has been.


----------



## farlep99 (Feb 19, 2016)

WWF-VT said:


> Skiing under the guns in *February *and calling it an awesome day is indicative of how bad this season has been.



But he had fun & it was an awesome day!  Doesn't that make it a great season???

The front page of the Stowe Reporter has a long article & a picture of VT's only Congressman talking to struggling local business owners (not exactly sure what he can do about the weather).  But I guess they can at least bitch to him.

Mother nature handed us a shit sandwich for breakfast, lunch, & dinner this year.  Going to be near 50 & raining tomorrow.  Hopefully it snows next week!  Color me less than optimistic that it's major enough to make a difference.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Feb 19, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> But he had fun & it was an awesome day!  Doesn't that make it a great season???
> 
> The front page of the Stowe Reporter has a long article & a picture of VT's only Congressman talking to struggling local business owners (not exactly sure what he can do about the weather).  But I guess they can at least bitch to him.
> 
> Mother nature handed us a shit sandwich for breakfast, lunch, & dinner this year.  Going to be near 50 & raining tomorrow.  Hopefully it snows next week!  Color me less than optimistic that it's major enough to make a difference.



I didn't say that having fun yesterday made it a great season. I said I had fun under the guns.....which means I'm still having fun in a bad season!


----------



## hammer (Feb 19, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> But he had fun & it was an awesome day!  Doesn't that make it a great season???



IMO that's making the best of a bad season...nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Jcb890 (Feb 19, 2016)

Yes, we're all making the best of a bad season.  I think we can all agree on that much, 12 pages in.


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 19, 2016)

I'm going fat biking for the first time tomorrow, so there's that.


----------



## 57stevey (Feb 19, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Was at pats peak this afternoon. Still coverage on everything. Groomers skied well. Didn't hit Hurricane or Vortex those were looking sketchy.



Thank you for this post. I was on the fence about coming today but glad I did, the groomers are indeed in good shape.


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 19, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Yes, we're all making the best of a bad season.  I think we can all agree on that much, 12 pages in.



Agreed ! Some of my best have been under the guns too ! At this point I don't care if it's man made !


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Harvey (Feb 19, 2016)

I went 30 years of my life before I started skiing, so all those seasons were worse.


----------



## goldsbar (Feb 19, 2016)

It's so hard to answer this objectively as most of us don't keep detailed records.  I've scanned this thread over time and the only solid data I recall is the Mansfield snow stake, which is really only accurate for Northern VT.  Certainly feels bad, though I've had fun every ski day despite no woods and limited bumps.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 19, 2016)

goldsbar said:


> It's so hard to answer this objectively as most of us don't keep detailed records.  I've scanned this thread over time and the only solid data I recall is the Mansfield snow stake, which is really only accurate for Northern VT.  Certainly feels bad, though I've had fun every ski day despite no woods and limited bumps.



I skied for years before most places even had woods and I hated bumps then as well. I love trees and bumps now.


----------



## boston_e (Feb 25, 2016)

Well, this sure isn't helping any.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm changing my vote to the worst.  I'm young, so this is me getting my "once in a lifetime" winter over with.


Still infinitely times better than the Pacific Northwest last winter.


----------



## Glenn (Feb 25, 2016)

What makes it really tough is the winter we had last year. What a shift. 

I'm thankful for snowmaking. We've at least been able to get out and make some turns this year. While we've had some good days, it's been ok skiing for the most part. 

Haven't done any snowmobiling outside of the yard in VT. Thankfully, I've got less expensive older sleds. That's been a really really crappy season.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Feb 25, 2016)

I know that at least at Cannon we probably would not have opened yet this year without snowmaking.At best only for a few days.


----------



## hammer (Feb 25, 2016)

ss20 said:


> I'm changing my vote to the worst.


Same here.  Still going to get out at least a few more times though.


----------



## jaybird (Feb 25, 2016)

Didn't your mommy and daddy teach you not to be a quitter?
Pretty sad to kick nature to the side of the road with weeks to go before it's truly over.
Nothin gonna breaka my stride.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 25, 2016)

jaybird said:


> Didn't your mommy and daddy teach you not to be a quitter?
> Pretty sad to kick nature to the side of the road with weeks to go before it's truly over.
> Nothin gonna breaka my stride.



My mother and father taught me how to accept objective facts.  

You can make the best of this season, but you can't deny its characteristics.  


.


----------



## wa-loaf (Feb 25, 2016)

Season salvaged with trip to Jackson Hole last week. Got one good powder day in. Have some ski races and stuff left for the season, but unless we get a couple good March storms up north I'm pretty much done.


----------



## wtcobb (Feb 25, 2016)

For the 11-12 comp and average from Mansfield:







Picked up a lightweight camp pad and some slings. Time to look ahead to backpacking and climbing season!


----------



## slatham (Feb 25, 2016)

This season, at least from a ski area income statement perspective, is already toast and the worst since 82/83 or 79/80, if not ever. No amount of snow in March or April is going to change this (there is nothing significant in the forecast until after March 1, and even that is questionable). Sure, skiing could get good and maybe resurrect the skiing season for us hardcores (again, this is a stretch and approaching wishful thinking) but financially 15/16 its effectively in the books.


----------



## wtcobb (Feb 25, 2016)

11/12 season I spent the last weekend of March at Stowe for a bachelor party. 80's weekend, and not in the bright onesie sense. We hiked the Chin in t-shirts.

If nothing else, this has been a good year for winter hiking. I know a few folks who hit the single season winter 4K list already.


----------



## jaybird (Feb 25, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> My mother and father taught me how to accept objective facts.
> 
> You can make the best of this season, but you can't deny its characteristics.
> 
> ...



Best fat biking winter season in recent history. 
March ain't even started and the girlie-men have wedgies.

Change the dynamics ... open the wallet like wa-loaf did.
Conditions west of Denver can save your NEK soul.
Burke sure ain't doin that :roll:


----------



## Abominable (Feb 25, 2016)

slatham said:


> This season, at least from a ski area income statement perspective, is already toast and the worst since 82/83 or 79/80, if not ever. No amount of snow in March or April is going to change this (there is nothing significant in the forecast until after March 1, and even that is questionable). Sure, skiing could get good and maybe resurrect the skiing season for us hardcores (again, this is a stretch and approaching wishful thinking) but financially 15/16 its effectively in the books.



I know next to nothing about ski area managment.  How do you think a winter like affects the sort of well run, mid range independent areas?  Places like Bromley, Berkshire East?  I have to imagine they finance at least a certain portion of capital and operating expenses through short term debt.  They obviously feel the pinch in a season like this, but is it devastating?  When you read Nelsap histories you often come across phrasing like "a couple bad winters in the 80s and they shuttered."

How's Bromley been this year, in terms of.. I dunno, general feeling?  Lot's of bitchin' and moanin' at the bar?  Empty bar?  I'm sure there's a lot of folks, lifties, instructors, that have been more or less laid off or not gotten near the hours / wages they'd expect in a normal winter.  I feel bad for folks like that.  It's one thing when a lousy winter affects your recreation; another when it's your livelihood at stake.


----------



## billski (Feb 25, 2016)

Abominable said:


> They obviously feel the pinch in a season like this, but is it devastating?  When you read Nelsap histories you often come across phrasing like "a couple bad winters in the 80s and they shuttered."
> .



It depends all over the place, cash flow, angel investors, deep pockets, dreamers, paupers.   What you can count on is very restrained capital improvements.  From an expense perspective, Killington called it early and stopped spending good money on advertising.  I thought at least I'd see some agressive ticket discounting.  Guess they don't want to set a precedent.  Oh well, back to real estate.


----------



## billski (Feb 25, 2016)

It sucks if you have to plan ahead this year.  If you can pounce, (within a day) you can get some pretty good tracks right after a "snowfall", then the torch sets back in to screw up the next seven days.  Friggin' 60 at my house today, prolly above freezing on every summit.


----------



## billski (Feb 25, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I remember ski areas being closed this time of the year before the advent of snowmaking. So no it's not the worst I've seen. Not that I was alive then but did you know that the first year MRG was scheduled to open they never did because of lack of snow.
> I started skiing in 1960 so I've been around longer than most here.



Today's difference is that we have a lot of spoiled skiers who expect a lot.  Gourmet food, High speed lifts, bindings that fit, boots that don't break, special clothing, snow making.  It simply sets the expectation bar higher.   "back in the day", if it didn't snow, hey, maybe you did something else. Advanced sales are also somewhat to blame for that whine.  

 That's just the way it was.  If the trails had ice, dirt or snow you dealt with it.  The only snow report you got was from a friend who skied there a week ago.  Nobody expected wall to wall unblemished trails, t-bars were common.  Getting over 10 runs a day was a big deal. 

A memorable day at Stowe always included some blue ice with no way around, and waiting for my under-confident friends to make it over the patch in  45 minutes.

What's really discouraging is that one resort in particular started to pitch this as "spring skiing".   In February.  OMG.  Places are going to close early;have you seen the NWS snow depth chart?   I expect the trail count to be going down precipitously.   Was at Sugarbush last week and it was sad how many closed trails I saw.  Skiable to me, but it's about expectations.


----------



## slatham (Feb 25, 2016)

Abominable said:


> I know next to nothing about ski area managment.  How do you think a winter like affects the sort of well run, mid range independent areas?  Places like Bromley, Berkshire East?  I have to imagine they finance at least a certain portion of capital and operating expenses through short term debt.  They obviously feel the pinch in a season like this, but is it devastating?  When you read Nelsap histories you often come across phrasing like "a couple bad winters in the 80s and they shuttered."
> 
> How's Bromley been this year, in terms of.. I dunno, general feeling?  Lot's of bitchin' and moanin' at the bar?  Empty bar?  I'm sure there's a lot of folks, lifties, instructors, that have been more or less laid off or not gotten near the hours / wages they'd expect in a normal winter.  I feel bad for folks like that.  It's one thing when a lousy winter affects your recreation; another when it's your livelihood at stake.



I haven't heard much grumbling about the mountain and ops, just the weather (personally I was very surprised with how well the mountain skied after last weeks thaw). It does seem that they've cut back a bit on things here and there, and they do not have the base depth that they typically do. Given no more snowmaking (which is typical for them after Presidents) there are questions as to how long they can stay open. Today obviously not helping. I would not be shocked if they go the way of Pico and move to weekends or Thur-Mon much earlier than usual, but that's pure speculation.

I am sure the powers that be at Bromley are very happy they have a good summer business!


----------



## wtcobb (Feb 25, 2016)

jaybird said:


> Best fat biking winter season in recent history.



I've heard the opposite from many riders. Lack of a good snowbase and rain (mud) affects bike trails too.


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 25, 2016)

It was thundering on the way to work this morning...


----------



## slatham (Feb 25, 2016)

Another depressing datapoint. Per Win Smith (CR=Castle Rock):

"CR chair by the way has run only 12 days. In a mediocre season it normally runs around 55 days. That probably sums up the winter."


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 25, 2016)

jaybird said:


> Best fat biking winter season in recent history.
> :roll:



How many fat biking seasons have there actually been?


----------



## jaybird (Feb 25, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> How many fat biking seasons have there actually been?



Precisely ... at least someone is paying attention 

Actually, trails up our way have been normal gnar.
Bike snow ... Less is more.

March is a long month.


----------



## slatham (Feb 25, 2016)

Well this is a surprise. Just received an email from Bromley:

Yes, that is a snowgun at the top of this page, thank you for noticing! It may 50° right now, but by 6am tomorrow morning it will be 14° at the summit. Have we mentioned we love winter?! We do. So much so that we will resume snowmaking again early Friday morning and keep this crazy season going in style. Bonus points to anyone who can remember the last time Big B turned on a snow gun after the February holiday week.


----------



## Los (Feb 25, 2016)

ss20 said:


> I'm changing my vote to the worst.  I'm young, so this is me getting my "once in a lifetime" winter over with.



Sorry dude, that's wishful thinking. The reality is that winters like these will become increasingly common.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 25, 2016)

Los said:


> Sorry dude, that's wishful thinking. The reality is that winters like these will become increasingly common.



From the Al Gore website...


----------



## Puck it (Feb 25, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> From the Al Gore website...


Aren't we suppose to be underwater too?


----------



## ss20 (Feb 25, 2016)

Los said:


> Sorry dude, that's wishful thinking. The reality is that winters like these will become increasingly common.
> 
> View attachment 19235



And last year it felt like we were up here...


----------



## NYDB (Feb 25, 2016)

Worst ever for me.  Based on my job, my season starts early and pretty much ends 3/1, so this one blew chunks.

I had a few good trips banging groomers with the family and lapping the park with the children, and that is a lot of the fun nowadays. 

But not one trip driving up to the house in the middle of the night in anticipation of a epic dump  or a day of powder and trees, and that is disappointing.  I usually get 4-5 days like that a year and those days makes my season. 

And my oldest (7) was just getting into the trees and riding pow pretty well at the end of 2015 season.  None of that this year.  He asks every trip why we can't go in the woods, and I gently wipe the tears from his eyes, and  tell him that God and al gore hate us because he won't eat his vegetables and all the rain is god crying.


----------



## djd66 (Feb 25, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> From the Al Gore website...



+1


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 25, 2016)

Puck it said:


> Aren't we suppose to be underwater too?



The greatest hits list of failed Global Warming predictions (through 2015) are pretty funny.  They'll get even better with all the failed doom and gloom predictions that will need to be added in 2020.


----------



## Los (Feb 25, 2016)

ss20 said:


> And last year it felt like we were up here...
> 
> View attachment 19236



It's my understanding that extreme weather patterns are a characteristic of a warming climate. Unfortunately, the "favorable" extremes provide false comfort to the naive and they provide reassurance to the ideologically obstinate who are choosing to ignore the overwhelming scientific consensus, which is that we have a serious problem as a result of 200 years of carbon emissions. 

For good measure, it would behoove us all to not wax nostalgic about last year. Yes, it was great. But our collective memory is failing us: there was little to no snowfall in December 2014 and the first half of January 2015. I remember skiing Cranmore on January 9th and it was pretty bad. It was only the freak 6 solid weeks of storm after storm between mid-January and the end of February that made it great. I'm not the only one who remembers this. Check this out: http://newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=383  According to the McIntyre operator, "[t]he past 3 seasons have been the worst in recent memory." THE PAST THREE. 

For more anecdotal evidence (as if any is needed), type "worst ski season" into an internet search engine and check out the results. You'll see tons of stories about regions/ski areas all over the world experiencing their "worst ski season" within the past 5 years or so. 

Our carbon emissions are catching up with us and we need to take massive action NOW. But that's not going to happen when not even SKIERS will accept the scientific consensus. It's really, really sad. It's SO easy to make snarky comments and to use those "favorable" extreme weather patterns to dismiss concerns about a warming climate. 

But -- as I commented to another non-scientist on AZ who seems to be cherry picking the data that he likes in order to tell 95% of climatologists that they're wrong -- whatever you need to tell yourself.


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 25, 2016)

Los said:


> Our carbon emissions are catching up with us and we need to take massive action NOW. But that's not going to happen when not even SKIERS will accept the scientific consensus. It's really, really sad. It's SO easy to make snarky comments and to use those "favorable" extreme weather patterns to dismiss concerns about a warming climate.



Meh. Don't worry about that aspect so much.  A couple of deniers on a tiny local ski forum aren't indicative of the general population.  Real people living in actual impacted coastal zones are very much in tune with the reality.  They've moved WAY past juvenile bickering and are involved in productive decision making and planning in order to salvage their local infrastructure and economies.  The rest is just an unproductive distraction.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 25, 2016)

Los said:


> It's my understanding that extreme weather patterns are a characteristic of a warming climate. Unfortunately, the "favorable" extremes provide false comfort to the naive and they provide reassurance to the ideologically obstinate who are choosing to ignore the overwhelming scientific consensus, which is that we have a serious problem as a result of 200 years of carbon emissions.
> 
> For good measure, it would behoove us all to not wax nostalgic about last year. Yes, it was great. But our collective memory is failing us: there was little to no snowfall in December 2014 and the first half of January 2015. I remember skiing Cranmore on January 9th and it was pretty bad. It was only the freak 6 solid weeks of storm after storm between mid-January and the end of February that made it great. I'm not the only one who remembers this. Check this out: http://newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=383  According to the McIntyre operator, "[t]he past 3 seasons have been the worst in recent memory." THE PAST THREE.
> 
> ...




I'm not a climo-astro-meteorolog-ism-ist.  But I do know scientific basics.  

More heat in the atmosphere from the greenhouse effect = more energy.

More energy = stronger weather patterns... resulting in winter's that go weeks with temperatures below normal by 10-20 degrees (last year) and winter's that have temperatures 10-20 degrees above normal (this year).



That's how I always interpreted it.


----------



## Los (Feb 25, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> From the Al Gore website...



For what it's worth, I have never voted for a Democrat in my life. PM me and I'll give you my deets (that's how the cool kids say "details"). I"m only saying this because I strongly believe that dealing with carbon emissions should NOT be an ideological or partisan issue. Unfortunately, because he's a polarizing individual (and in my opinion, loathesome) Al Gore probably did more to RETARD action to address climate change than anything else.


----------



## Los (Feb 25, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> Meh. Don't worry about that aspect so much.  A couple of deniers on a tiny local ski forum aren't indicative of the general population.  Real people living in actual impacted coastal zones are very much in tune with the reality.  They've moved WAY past juvenile bickering and are involved in productive decision making and planning in order to salvage their local infrastructure and economies.  The rest is just an unproductive distraction.



Thanks Cannonball. You're right. I'll chill out.


----------



## jimk (Feb 25, 2016)

Posting interesting chatter I gleaned off the web about snow conditions this winter being better in the Southeast than in Poconos and possibly VT.  These are excerpts from other discussion forums, take with grain of salt:

Montage and Elk got little of the snow that the areas south of there got with big Winter Storm Jonas on Jan 23rd.  Without the natural snow cover, the ground and rocks heat up from the sun and help melt things down even quicker.  Jack Frost on Sunday, Feb 21, 2016: most of the areas between the runs had snow, although it was getting thin.

Driving on Feb 24, 2016  through the Allentown/ Bethlehem area it was 61 degrees, torrential rain and some roads looked more like rivers.  No doubt the ski slopes are taking a hit from this. 

Could it be that Southern PA is actually holding up better than Eastern PA? Montage Mountain, outside Scranton was weak on 2/21/16 and it rained all week after that. 
Ski Liberty webcams on 2/25/16 indicate plenty of snow still on the ground, and they will start snow making tomorrow night and through the weekend.

Sometimes Massanutten ski area, VA is right on the edge of the rain line as storms roll up from the southeast to the northeast.  Been watching the weather around there pretty closely for years.  Pretty clear that this winter eastern PA ended up with a lot more rain and a lot less snow than southwest PA and northwest VA.  Also the cold temps that push into NC and VA mountains often didn't make it to eastern PA.  The base depth in NC/VA before the recent warm spell and rain was pretty deep because of just enough frigid days that allowed for round the clock snowmaking before Pres. Day.

The NC mountains got a couple inches of snow this morning 2/25/16 after the squall line of tornados went north into VA late yesterday.  Snowmaking started last night.  Snowmaking will be happening in VA tonight.  Pretty weird when the southeast is doing better than most of the Mid-Atlantic.

Snowshoe, WV could get up to 8 inches of natural snow Feb 26, 2016.

It's been a very weird year for where the snow ended up.  It's possible the lower mid-Atlantic is doing better than much of Vermont?


----------



## jaybird (Feb 25, 2016)

'Doing better' as in natural snow?
Unquestionably.

As to liquor sales, VT is on a record pace.

Enjoy that massive Snowshoe vertical


----------



## Keelhauled (Feb 25, 2016)

slatham said:


> Another depressing datapoint. Per Win Smith (CR=Castle Rock):
> 
> "CR chair by the way has run only 12 days. In a mediocre season it normally runs around 55 days. That probably sums up the winter."



Similarly, I don't think Bolton Valley ever opened the Wilderness chair. Pico never ran Knomes Knoll or Outpost either.


----------



## xwhaler (Feb 25, 2016)

Keelhauled said:


> Similarly, I don't think Bolton Valley ever opened the Wilderness chair. Pico never ran Knomes Knoll or Outpost either.



Pretty sure Wilderness spun this yr at some point.  It may run next wknd   that area of NVT could have a very good March

Not sure on Outpost


----------



## jack97 (Feb 25, 2016)

jimk said:


> It's been a very weird year for where the snow ended up.  It's possible the lower mid-Atlantic is doing better than much of Vermont?



Snowfall prediction from Bastardi and D'Aleo web site.  Back in Aug, they predicted the mid Atlantic would get the snow storms. Seems they where off when it comes to New England, the 100% normal snowfall should have been more south of Mass. But I think they were spot on that snow storms took that southerly path and turn up far way from the NE ski areas.


----------



## jack97 (Feb 25, 2016)

btw.... be thankful we have snow making. Imagine what it was like back in 1981.  And I'm looking forward to some spring like conditions this w/e and getting giddy that Kmart blew alot of snow. Should have some fun times skiing in slush bumps.


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 25, 2016)

jack97 said:


> btw.... be thankful we have snow making. Imagine what it was like back in 1981.  And I'm looking forward to some spring like conditions this w/e and getting giddy that Kmart blew alot of snow. Should have some fun times skiing in slush bumps.



I'm a bit slow but isn't that average is increasing?

All the hype over green house gas trapping sunlight ? The heat comes from millions of barrels of oil being burned daily not the C02 being created. Not too many people will trade there car for a bicycle so it's good politics to create a system to milk IE cap and trade . They can only tax fuel so much. 

Lots of heat also comes from Parking lots, cars, dark roofs , basically  anything that absorbs sunlight at a greater rate that trees or grass.
My other hobby is flying Sailplanes and they rely on rising air to stay aloft . Often times I head for these areas and can climb at 500' -1000' per minute . So if you want to help the cause paint your roof white, use a dash reflector in your car. Whatever you can do to prevent the sun from being absorbed. But buying C02 as primary cause of AGW is falling for a line.


----------



## jack97 (Feb 25, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I'm a bit slow but isn't that average is increasing?
> 
> All the hype over green house gas trapping sunlight ? The heat comes from millions of barrels of oil being burned daily not the C02 being created. Not too many people will trade there car for a bicycle so it's good politics to create a system to milk IE cap and trade . They can only tax fuel so much.
> 
> ...



I believe the term is urban heat island.... we spend a lot of money confirming this to be the case.


----------



## Keelhauled (Feb 25, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> Pretty sure Wilderness spun this yr at some point.  It may run next wknd   that area of NVT could have a very good March



They opened the lower trails in the area, the ones accessible from Vista, but I don't think the lift ran. Maybe they managed a weekend, I don't remember for sure.


----------



## jack97 (Feb 26, 2016)

btw.... here's the North America snow extent up to 2014. Now I'm curious what the 2015 - 2016 numbers will look like and how the climate spin doctors will spin it.


----------



## yeggous (Feb 26, 2016)

jack97 said:


> btw.... here's the North America snow extent up to 2014. Now I'm curious what the 2015 - 2016 numbers will look like and how the climate spin doctors will spin it.



We can start with statistical significance and then move on to the real science of the matter.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Jully (Feb 26, 2016)

jimk said:


> It's been a very weird year for where the snow ended up.  It's possible the lower mid-Atlantic is doing better than much of Vermont?



As Jack97 said, it certainly wasn't unexpected. Though it's not one of the most well understood weather phenomena, what el nino does to the jet streams is pretty well understood and the changes to storm tracks are decently predictable for a season.


----------



## jimk (Feb 26, 2016)

jaybird said:


> Enjoy that massive Snowshoe vertical



Snowshoe has received 13" snow in last 24 hrs.  Just saying.  :flag:


----------



## benski (Feb 29, 2016)

Sugarbush posted on there website there worst season. So far this is the fourth worst season. 

https://www.sugarbush.com/blog/wins-word/historical-snowfall/


----------



## Rowsdower (Feb 29, 2016)

Besides area covered would be interesting to look at depth, and ratio of total days of snow/rain precip per year. Also, is that max cover, or average cover? 

Things like temp and sea ice mass have been decreasing in the northern hemisphere. I know you guys like to armchair scientist on here, but as somebody in the business you have to take any and all variables into account possible.


----------



## Gnarcissaro (Feb 29, 2016)

wtcobb said:


> I know a few folks who hit the single season winter 4K list already.



Good for them because it is never easy, but one thing similar to skiing/snowboarding in the mountaineering world is doing climbs 'in good style.' 

I wouldn't feel right claiming a single winter 48 this year if boasting to my friends, for example. Trail conditions have been a relative breeze with proper traction this year. Not the same task as a normal winter.

15/16 [emoji1304]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 29, 2016)

Gnarcissaro said:


> Good for them because it is never easy, but one thing similar to skiing/snowboarding in the mountaineering world is doing climbs 'in good style.'
> 
> I wouldn't feel right claiming a single winter 48 this year if boasting to my friends, for example. Trail conditions have been a relative breeze with proper traction this year. Not the same task as a normal winter.
> 
> ...



They did just find that guy frozen to death near Mt Adams/Jefferson


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 29, 2016)




----------



## Not Sure (Feb 29, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> They did just find that guy frozen to death near Mt Adams/Jefferson



RIP , He may have had a heart attack. I wonder if his relatives have to pay recovery fee. That would be a double !@#$%%,
no sure if the "rescue" fee applies to recovery .


----------



## NYDB (Mar 1, 2016)

With late spring temps and rain coming 3/8 and beyond, there won't be much left at too many places after that.  Worst winter for me that I can remember for sure.


----------



## witch hobble (Mar 1, 2016)

I guess I'll have oil in the tank and an extra chord and a half to start off next year with.


----------



## andrec10 (Mar 1, 2016)

I am glad after next Tuesday I will have 33 days in! Time to start thinking about next year and give up on this one. Make the best of it while you can!


----------



## ALLSKIING (Mar 2, 2016)

Lowest snow depths since 1961...unreal. it's going to be a quick spring season if it's warm.


----------



## yeggous (Mar 2, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> Lowest snow depths since 1961...unreal. it's going to be a quick spring season if it's warm.



It will be. Blow torch next week.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 2, 2016)

yeggous said:


> It will be. Blow torch next week.



I'm quite glad that next Friday will be day 40 on the season for me (one of my set goals for the season each and every year) - next week's blowtorch will likely take my pathway to 50 days I have mapped out through the 1st weekend in April off the table :-(  And far below the 60 days I got each of the last 2 years


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 2, 2016)

drjeff said:


> I'm quite glad that next Friday will be day 40 on the season for me (one of my set goals for the season each and every year) - next week's blowtorch will likely take my pathway to 50 days I have mapped out through the 1st weekend in April off the table :-(  And far below the 60 days I got each of the last 2 years



Thinking places will start to close/move to weekends only soon?


----------



## drjeff (Mar 2, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Thinking places will start to close/move to weekends only soon?



Not sure realistically how many resorts bases can withstand the 3 to 4 days of Christmas like 55-60 degree temps the meteorologists are thinking could be around here next weekend if the models pan out?!?!   It could be a repeat of the Spring of '11 where a bunch of days in a row of really warm temps shut down the majority of ski areas in the Northeast!!! I REALLY hope my fears prove unwarranted come St Patrick's Day!!!!


----------



## steamboat1 (Mar 2, 2016)

I'm just disappointed K didn't stockpile upper Skyelark/lower Bitter this season. Lower Skyelark is respectable. Hopefully they still might get to it although I heard the rental compressors are packed up & ready to go.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 2, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm just disappointed K didn't stockpile upper Skyelark/lower Bitter this season. Lower Skyelark is respectable. Hopefully they still might get to it although I heard the rental compressors are packed up & ready to go.



The thing is with the temps of the next few days, and the assortment of Snow Logic DV4 guns they have, the size of the whales they could put down, pretty efficiently with those guns running on stage 3 or 4 as they could in the solid cold, WOULD make a difference!


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 2, 2016)

Saturday they were blowing like crazy on Superstar and had quite a few large piles built up.  Here's the top with my 165 cm board in there for reference.


----------



## steamboat1 (Mar 2, 2016)

drjeff said:


> The thing is with the temps of the next few days, and the assortment of Snow Logic DV4 guns they have, the size of the whales they could put down, pretty efficiently with those guns running on stage 3 or 4 as they could in the solid cold, WOULD make a difference!


Yeah I know...

Exhibit A

Thing is I don't want just Supe.


----------



## Quietman (Mar 2, 2016)

Went to Crotched tonight to get some exercise and I'd even checked the web site before leaving work and all looked good. Got there 15 minutes later and 1st thing I saw was the West lift wasn't running.  I ran that lift for 4 years and it was always running if the mountain was open.  Then I see no lights on at the Rocket base. Checked inside and sure enough, they were only running the Valley lift for the night due to "high winds". Yes there were only 30 cars in the lots for the beer league races, and the snow was slightly firm to say the least, but I was a little pissed that I wasted a whole 30 minute trip to the mountain.  I really don't blame the mountain, running a HS quad for 4 hours for 30 people would have been a waste.  I really blame this f'd up winter that has made mountains so empty that they have to make choices like this.  This so called poor excuse for what we have called a winter so far is completely to blame.  Next week's warm temps could be the nail in the coffin for many smaller areas. 

BTW, I was skiing with an older local and complained about the sucky winter, and he said just be glad they can make snow now, he recalled years when local mountains didn't open at all. That being said, this recent weather really sucks big time!!!


----------



## drjeff (Mar 2, 2016)

Greg said:


> [Originally posted by Chris Taylor]:
> 
> Two of my friends and I are planning to hike Mt Washington next Thanksgiving week and I'd like to get a little advice. All three of us have a good amount of hiking experience in the Appalachian Mtns in Virginia. I'm very comfortable in cold weather (born in Boston and raised in Southern Germany) but I have limited cold weather hiking experience, only three 3day long hikes in temps from 15-25 degrees F. One of my friends is from South Carolina and, while he is comfortable in cold weather environments, he hasn't hiked in them. The third guy has lived in New England all his life and has about triple the amount of cold weather hiking experience that I do. We are all in our early 20's and all are in good physical shape (all of us max our Army ROTC physical fitness test) so I think that might be to our advantage. Our greatest disadvantage is our lack of experience. My question is: if we plan to summit Mt Washington during the Thanskgiving week (on the easiest route), are we bitting off to much? If so, where might be a good place to get some experience.
> 
> ...



Here's that same essential location at the top of Supe the 3rd week of APRIL last season - for reference, my oldest kid (the one closer to the top of the pile) was roughly the same height as your board then!! 

K really could use a few more days of "the 7 gun salute" at the top of Supe and then getting the Snow Logic's below the 7 K3000's at the top running or stags 3 or 4 for a few days!!!


----------



## steamboat1 (Mar 2, 2016)

You mean like this...

Pile is definitely smaller than last year so far.

Actually one day early last week when the wind was right they had 2 K3000's blowing over the top from the backside right over Launch Pad onto the mound plus a couple of snow logics on the backside. The K 3000's were pointed straight up & blew right over the trail without skiers getting blasted. This was in addition to the 7 gun salute. It was awesome.


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 2, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> You mean like this...
> 
> Pile is definitely smaller than last year so far.



I have to imagine they'll blow snow all week until they can't with the warm weather coming in, right?  Tomorrow through Sunday it looks like maybe they could make snow.


----------



## steamboat1 (Mar 2, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> I have to imagine they'll blow snow all week until they can't with the warm weather coming in, right?  Tomorrow through Sunday it looks like maybe they could make snow.



Not sure. Heard they put away the hoses. They might be done.

Regardless I'm planning on being there most of next week.


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 2, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Not sure. Heard they put away the hoses. They might be done.
> 
> Regardless I'm planning on being there most of next week.



We've already got a trip booked the 19th & 20th... hopefully the weather will hold out.


----------



## steamboat1 (Mar 3, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> We've already got a trip booked the 19th & 20th... hopefully the weather will hold out.



Sorry pretty much only do weekdays myself. They'll have snow. They blew Double Dipper a couple of weeks ago & it was only open a few days before it turned to ice (lucky for me I was there when it was open). The mounds are still there & haven't even been groomed out yet. When it softens & is groomed it will be good.


----------



## Bostonian (Mar 3, 2016)

At this point, I kind have given up on the rest of the season.  I plan on hitting Gunstock this weekend and the last weekend they are open. I also have Mount Snow on St. Paddy's day and beyond that, I don't know.  Maybe K in April on Superstar, if they still have it open.  But I am ready to write this one off.  Time to think of summer, the boat and actually running to lose some weight.  I'll be happy with 15 times out this season.


----------



## slatham (Mar 3, 2016)

Concord NH: season to date snow: 24.7". Deviation from normal: -23.7"
Burlington VT: season to date snow: 29.2". Deviation from normal: -32.7"
Albany NY: 10.3". Deviation -37.5"

Islip NY (closest site to my house): season to date snow: 38". Deviation from normal: +17.9"

What could go wrong did go wrong.


----------



## VTKilarney (Mar 3, 2016)

I'm in the same boat as Bostonian.  I am planning on skiing this weekend and then will treat anything after next week's blowtorch as an unanticipated bonus.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 3, 2016)

slatham said:


> Concord NH: season to date snow: 24.7". Deviation from normal: -23.7"
> Burlington VT: season to date snow: 29.2". Deviation from normal: -32.7"
> Albany NY: 10.3". Deviation -37.5"
> 
> ...




And of those 4 reporting stations you mentioned, only Islip is likely to add to their seasonal total in the next few days as another sizeable storm heads out to sea in the waters South of New England :smash:


----------



## drjeff (Mar 3, 2016)

VTKilarney said:


> I'm in the same boat as Bostonian.  I am planning on skiing this weekend and then will treat anything after next week's blowtorch as an unanticipated bonus.



Trying to be as optimistic as possible, given the crappy forecast the next week, at least in the models and estimates that I'm seeing on multiple weather sites, they're think that mountain temps will "only" be in the 50's and there will be some cloudy/overcast days during the warm up.  A bit different than the major blowtorch in March of 2011 that basically shutdown the New England ski season in a week, where mountain temps were in the 60's and 70's and there was hardly a cloud in the sky all week.

No if's and's or but's about it, significant damage is likely to be done to ski areas next week,  let's at least hope that it's not the utter catastrophe for all that 2011 was, and that we'll have more than a dozen or so options to ski the following weekend and hopefully into April, unlike in 2011....


----------



## dlague (Mar 3, 2016)

well the fact that we will be just over 30 day this season and for all intensive purposes hitting 50 days this season if the season was normal would be easy.  However, with warm ups like next week, this season is starting to suck!  I was hoping the winter would give us something in March.


----------



## andrec10 (Mar 3, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Trying to be as optimistic as possible, given the crappy forecast the next week, at least in the models and estimates that I'm seeing on multiple weather sites, they're think that mountain temps will "only" be in the 50's and there will be some cloudy/overcast days during the warm up.  A bit different than the major blowtorch in March of 2011 that basically shutdown the New England ski season in a week, where mountain temps were in the 60's and 70's and there was hardly a cloud in the sky all week.
> 
> No if's and's or but's about it, significant damage is likely to be done to ski areas next week,  let's at least hope that it's not the utter catastrophe for all that 2011 was, and that we'll have more than a dozen or so options to ski the following weekend and hopefully into April, unlike in 2011....



I believe it was March of 2012, not 2011. ask me how I remember..


----------



## from_the_NEK (Mar 3, 2016)

dlague said:


> ...this season is starting to suck!



I'm pretty sure it never stopped :smash:


----------



## drjeff (Mar 3, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> I believe it was March of 2012, not 2011. ask me how I remember..




You're probably right about the year, even without what I'm sure is a very memorable story!!!!  I just tried to block that melt out as far out of my mind as possible!!!  Plus, as we all know as we get a little older..... ;-) :lol:


----------



## bdfreetuna (Mar 3, 2016)

I figure even after the heat wave Jay will be worth another trip for some corn harvest, and Killington will have enough to be fun.

I've still got my fingers crossed for a snow storm that will give us a few more weeks of skiing. If that happens I'm sitting on a Bolton 4-pack.

Still, I'd call my "worst seasons ever" the years I went to college out near Rochester and basically gave up skiing. This year I've learned some new things and had excellent days every time but once (as few as those days have been), but I plan on hitting it heavy in March and early April if it's still decent.

Also had to take the beginning of February off due to illness and a quick hospital stay anyway, at least I didn't miss much.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 3, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Still, I'd call my "worst seasons ever" the years I went to college out near Rochester and basically gave up skiing.



Why did you give up skiing? Bristol is only 45 minutes from Rochester and quite a fun mountain!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Mar 3, 2016)

I went through a weird phase in life I guess. More concerned about seeing Phish and other jam bands than doing anything athletic at the time. I don't think I ever even researched surrounding areas or even brought my skis out to college.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 3, 2016)

Freshman year in college a lot of my friends still skied. After that a lot of them started getting too busy or losing interest. I tended to work out my schedule so I had classes only M-Th. Then Friday mornings I would drive down to Bristol myself if no one else wanted to ski. Skiing was one thing I had to make time for no matter what.


----------



## wtcobb (Mar 7, 2016)

Ski Hearth Farm XC closed down for the year after opening only 10 days in January. Tough year for them as a first with permits after a good inaugural season last year.

They're doing good by customers and honoring passes for next year.



> At this time, we are officially closed for the 2016 Nordic season.  Even  if we got a dump of snow now, it does not make sense for us to open.
> 
> If you purchased a 2016 Nordic season pass, it will be good for the 2017  Nordic season.  We appreciate the support and look forward to having  you next season.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Freshman year in college a lot of my friends still skied. After that a lot of them started getting too busy or losing interest. I tended to work out my schedule so I had classes only M-Th. Then Friday mornings I would drive down to Bristol myself if no one else wanted to ski. Skiing was one thing I had to make time for no matter what.



After a year and a half at UVM I moved out to Stowe.  Decided I'd rather commute to school instead of commute to skiing.  It was pretty easy at that school to set up a schedule of either M, W, F or TU, TH.  Even with that, my class attendance during winter wasn't the best!  Frequent cases of the Powder flu.


----------



## wtcobb (Mar 7, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Even with that, my class attendance during winter wasn't the best!  Frequent cases of the Powder flu.




Mad Pow Disease?


----------



## fcksummer (Mar 7, 2016)

Whaleback is done for the year. Not surprised after seeing the carnage as I drove past yesterday.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2016)

wtcobb said:


> Mad Pow Disease?



Ha! yes, you could say that.


----------



## Breakout12 (Mar 8, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Why did you give up skiing? Bristol is only 45 minutes from Rochester and quite a fun mountain!


Yeah, it is.  Bristol doesn't get much love on here.  I guess it is out of the way for most, but it is one of my favs.  My only complaint is that they have very few deals.  That, and the exchange rate sucks this year.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 8, 2016)

Breakout12 said:


> Yeah, it is.  Bristol doesn't get much love on here.  I guess it is out of the way for most, but it is one of my favs.  My only complaint is that they have very few deals.  That, and the exchange rate sucks this year.



Been over 10 years since I was last there. In terms of deals I remember they used to have "Wegmans family night". I don't remember the price, but it worked out well for us college students to take advantage of when we could get a group to go together. I'm sure a lot has changed since then though.


----------



## billski (Mar 9, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Why did you give up skiing? Bristol is only 45 minutes from Rochester and quite a fun mountain!


  I learned to ski  for cheap when I was at RIT, even though I was an engineering major, that is  the one thing Imade time for.


----------



## billski (Mar 9, 2016)

It's hard for me to know what was "worst".  I've never skied as much as I do now, so I guess I've got more data points than I did decades past.  I also never was as sad to see the season end as I do now.  I don't know what I don't know.  Between work and conflicting obligations, I have missed many great days in my life.
What is memorable about this year?  Falls and tumbles really hurt.  Edges and wax are my friends.  Chasing the snow is hard.  Not giving up because it is pouring in the flatlands. Not feeling the need to be out early.   No lift lines.  Twisting my knee on a fall that would have been pure fluff any other year.  Boatloads of people unloading vouchers for the most popular ski areas.  No woods skiing.  No lift lines.  No brutally cold days.  Well, maybe two.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 9, 2016)

billski said:


> I learned to ski  for cheap when I was at RIT, even though I was an engineering major, that is  the one thing Imade time for.



Nice...I was an IT major at RIT. I learned to ski in HS though, but was quickly hooked.


----------



## HD333 (Mar 9, 2016)

I have finally come to grips that this hands down has been the worse season I recall.  From the early season no snow, warm weather, to the rain then freeze, then warm, then freeze cycles we had all season it has not been consistently good for more than a few days in a row. I am just past the 20 day mark at this point and half of those days were absolute shit conditions that landed me in the bar by 2:00. The wife has skipped most Sunday's based on crap conditions experienced on Saturdays. I had 1 "powder" day which thankfully I was able to take advantage of with the kids. We have passed on visiting friends at other mountains just because we didn't want to drop the $ to take a chance on crap conditions. Headed up this weekend and it very well could be the last ski weekend for the family this season.  May push it and try to get up the last 2 weekends in March but at this point I am not sure it is worth it. 
I may have to finish ALL the beer in the fridge this weekend to avoid bringing it home when we clean out at the end of the lease. 

All that said I wouldn't trade the time up north this season with the family for anything.  It has been a fun winter, just not a good ski season. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Big Wave Dave (Mar 9, 2016)

I think we all need to just accept the fact that as New England skiers every so often mother nature just really drops a stinker. Believe 1980 was the last year that was this bad. Odds are next year will be alot better. Lets hope that the same flip that the Sierras got this year from last we get next year. They were mountain biking at Mammoth last March under a hot sun and now they have a 165" base.


----------



## billski (Mar 9, 2016)

My pre-season purchases this year had been inflated by the great season last year.  Trying to think too positively can get me into trouble.  My average ticket price is going to be up a lot this year.   Gotta start thinking about this summer's purchase plans...


----------



## billski (Mar 9, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Wegmans family night".


Off topic: Just in rah-cha-cha last weekend.  One of the Wegman's family just tore down a palatial home in Parma/Greece they built a couple decades ago on their lakeside ranch to build something else.


----------



## dlague (Mar 9, 2016)

billski said:


> Off topic: Just in rah-cha-cha last weekend.  One of the Wegman's family just tore down a palatial home in Parma/Greece they built a couple decades ago on their lakeside ranch to build something else.



Hey you are back!  Nice to see!


----------



## Puck it (Mar 9, 2016)

dlague said:


> Hey you are back!  Nice to see!


May be he has been actually skiing!!!!!


----------



## SkiFanE (Mar 9, 2016)

No way is this worst season ever. of course winters before 1990 are quite fuzzy - and I'm sure there was worse back then when snowmaking was not very good.  Probably around day 40-45 and has two incredible days this weekend. If you watch the weather, anticipate what stuff will be like - then yeah maybe it sucked for you. If you go to ski anyway, bet you'd have more fun then you'd have expected. I love woods and bumps best - so I've got barely anything to play in. But I find it and have great days 80% of the time anyway. Normal years it's 98% but oh well - I've come to terms and can't wait til spring bumps and corn on the huge manmade snowpack .  Get out there folks - no need to grumble the winter away.  so looking forward to this weekend!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Mar 9, 2016)

^
An admirable attitude.


----------



## SkiFanE (Mar 9, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I went through a weird phase in life I guess. More concerned about seeing Phish and other jam bands than doing anything athletic at the time. I don't think I ever even researched surrounding areas or even brought my skis out to college.


. I had one ski trip in 4 years with college buddies - in one guy's 1970s huge boat - all our skis fit crossways in the trunk (back in the 200cm+ days).  His car broke on way so we dealt with that all day and never skied. I did once usually over Xmas break. But at that point in my life skiing was nearly impossible when you slept til 1pm weekends lol. It just wasnt part of the culture of my U. Hlike it is at others (ie UVM). Didn't miss it at all. Then after college I made so little $ I got a second job at liquor store to pay for new equip and ski passes. Turned out my future husband I met at college started skiing before elem school like me - when we finally went together it was like "wow, this is fun" lol.


----------



## machski (Mar 9, 2016)

Big Wave Dave said:


> I think we all need to just accept the fact that as New England skiers every so often mother nature just really drops a stinker. Believe 1980 was the last year that was this bad. Odds are next year will be alot better. Lets hope that the same flip that the Sierras got this year from last we get next year. They were mountain biking at Mammoth last March under a hot sun and now they have a 165" base.



Careful, the Sierra didn't just have a bad year last, the one before it was just about as bad.


----------



## Savemeasammy (Mar 9, 2016)

Sugarbush shouldn't look like this on 3/9


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## cdskier (Mar 9, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Sugarbush shouldn't look like this on 3/9



Domino?


----------



## benski (Mar 9, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> View attachment 19478
> Sugarbush shouldn't look like this on 3/9
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Can't believe that's considered open.


----------



## JDMRoma (Mar 9, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> View attachment 19478
> Sugarbush shouldn't look like this on 3/9
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




Wow thats worse than Cannon  !!! You Win !


----------



## cdskier (Mar 9, 2016)

benski said:


> Can't believe that's considered open.



Assuming that is Domino, then it isn't open based on today's trail report. The pic would have been taken from the HG traverse. I skied Domino on Saturday and it looked much better than that. The upper half of Domino was nice, then the middle part of Domino was thinner and icy. Then Lower Domino below HG Traverse was pretty good again.


----------



## benski (Mar 9, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Assuming that is Domino, then it isn't open based on today's trail report. The pic would have been taken from the HG traverse. I skied Domino on Saturday and it looked much better than that. The upper half of Domino was nice, then the middle part of Domino was thinner and icy. Then Lower Domino below HG Traverse was pretty good again.



Your right. I thought it was moonshine at first. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## KD7000 (Mar 9, 2016)

This was my worse season in decades as far as days out went.  Busy schedule + horrific conditions, plus just a huge amount of apathy on my part.  Just not excited to pursue anything. My kids even gave up early.  I got on my XC skis all of once this whole winter, and that was in my backyard for an hour.

I'm sure there was decent snow to be had somewhere, I was just totally uninspired.

On the plus side, this might be the earliest in the season I've had the mountain bike out on the trails.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 9, 2016)

benski said:


> Your right. I thought it was moonshine at first.



Hah...now you've got me wondering if maybe that is Moonshine on second thought! If so, then yea I have no idea how they consider that open as I don't see much of a skiable line at all...


----------



## Savemeasammy (Mar 9, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Assuming that is Domino, then it isn't open based on today's trail report. The pic would have been taken from the HG traverse. I skied Domino on Saturday and it looked much better than that. The upper half of Domino was nice, then the middle part of Domino was thinner and icy. Then Lower Domino below HG Traverse was pretty good again.



It's twist, and it was open.  They were kind enough to put one of those "thin cover" signs at the top!

I'd expect it's closed tomorrow...


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Savemeasammy (Mar 9, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Hah...now you've got me wondering if maybe that is Moonshine on second thought! If so, then yea I have no idea how they consider that open as I don't see much of a skiable line at all...



I skied Moonshine also.  The base was a little more... solid 



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 9, 2016)

Wow that's horrible!


----------



## cdskier (Mar 9, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> It's twist, and it was open.  They were kind enough to put one of those "thin cover" signs at the top!
> 
> I'd expect it's closed tomorrow...



Damn...Twist had pretty good coverage as well on Saturday (albeit quite firm). Looks like their trail count will be dropping rapidly...

Here was Twist Saturday. Glad I skied it before it was too late.


----------



## yeggous (Mar 10, 2016)

Two weeks ago my official advice changed to "Smoke 'em if you got 'em". If you're holding onto anything for April, that's a mistake. Mother nature is not cooperating this year. I've started booking my summer weekends already.


----------



## andrec10 (Mar 10, 2016)




----------



## from_the_NEK (Mar 10, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> I skied Moonshine also.  The base was a little more... solid
> View attachment 19480


Now that is putting the "Shine" in Moonshine. I think I can see your reflection 

Burke's natural trails are toast (at least what I could see from the mid-lodge at noon today. The usual patches on Upper Warrens and Upper Willoughby are showing signs of thin spots as well.
Probably going to take the kids to the lower mtn one last time this weekend.


----------



## andrec10 (Mar 10, 2016)

Get yer skiing in the weekend folks!


----------



## moguler6 (Mar 10, 2016)

WORST!

Looks like my Vermont 5-pass was a waste. Used one


----------



## Madroch (Mar 10, 2016)

Brutal winter... Beyond words


----------



## steamboat1 (Mar 10, 2016)

It been good in my book, sorry to those who feel otherwise. Might be ending a bit prematurely but I had good days. Might have a few more before it's over.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 10, 2016)

Very happy that tomorrow will be day #40 for me - one of my goals each season, and one that with the exception of the 2 seasons my kids were born, that I haven't missed since I got out of dental school almost 20yrs ago!!

Could very well be 10 more days until we get back to actual "seasonable" temps, and by then there could very well be just a few left standing


----------



## The Sneak (Mar 10, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I went through a weird phase in life I guess. More concerned about seeing Phish and other jam bands than doing anything athletic at the time.



Now you've done it. 
Worst band of all time. 

Semi serious Q: what is it with jam bands and skiers? Or more pointedly, what is it with jam bands and middle / upper middle class preppy kids? Is it the same as the fascination with reggae (weed, brah)?

Never got it. Interminable mushy bullsh1t. Then again, I was a disaffected kid who spent those years listening to I dunno, the Stooges. 

Did you go to Lemonwheel and the Great Went? Jesus fuck that sounded god awful. 

Normally I'm very nice. This winter has made me a mean man!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cannonball (Mar 10, 2016)

The Sneak said:


> Now you've done it.
> Worst band of all time.
> 
> Semi serious Q: what is it with jam bands and skiers? Or more pointedly, what is it with jam bands and middle / upper middle class preppy kids? Is it the same as the fascination with reggae (weed, brah)?
> ...



HEY! Don't knock jambands!  As Tuna has pointed out, they are great at keeping people off the slopes.


----------



## billski (Mar 10, 2016)

moguler6 said:


> WORST!
> 
> Looks like my Vermont 5-pass was a waste. Used one


  Nasty.  Gonna use some vacation days so I don't lose my days.


----------



## ironhippy (Mar 11, 2016)

The Sneak said:


> Did you go to Lemonwheel and the Great Went? Jesus fuck that sounded god awful.



I went to IT in 2003.

I had been a phish fan, I sort of stopped being a fan, but figured a live show would revitalize my enthusiasm. Instead it did the exact opposite.

3 days of the same fucking song (not really, but it's a good joke).

I knew I was in trouble when we had to wait in traffic for a good 16 hours before we even got to the venue.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 11, 2016)

Warmest winter on record for the entire country. All six New England states set records for warmest season.  No sugar coating it, yes the worst ski season ever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-2015-2016-season-was-the-warmest-on-record/


----------



## Bostonian (Mar 11, 2016)

This is just ugly as DHS said, worst season ever... 







I'll it gunstock tomorrow and then redeem my mt snow pass for the 17th... and call it a season (maybe wildcat if they survive another week)


----------



## yeggous (Mar 11, 2016)

Bostonian said:


> This is just ugly as DHS said, worst season ever...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They'll survive. May not be pretty but they'll make it.


----------



## Pez (Mar 11, 2016)

I love Phish.  Probably my favorite band.  Their post hiatus period was crap though.  Last few years have been good to great depending on the tour.

This is the worst season since 1980, when my folks took me to Wash DC instead of VT for vacation.  It ad to have been bad, if my dad didn't want to get some runs in.  He was a style master.  I may make it to Butternut tomorrow and Snow on Sunday and that will be it.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 11, 2016)

Bostonian said:


> This is just ugly as DHS said, worst season ever...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Make sure your edges are sharp for Gunstock tomorrow, because if it sets up like they're thinking it will here overnight, it's going to be bulletproof for a while tomorrow based on how much base snow is in play on the hill today!! 

Coverage on what's open is decent - just a few truly bare spots


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 11, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Make sure your edges are sharp for Gunstock tomorrow, because if it sets up like they're thinking it will here overnight, it's going to be bulletproof for a while tomorrow based on how much base snow is in play on the hill today!!
> 
> Coverage on what's open is decent - just a few truly bare spots



drjeff - any insight as to Mt. Snow for us?  Just tried looking at their webcams, but tough to tell much from them.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 11, 2016)

Pez said:


> I love Phish.  Probably my favorite band.  Their post hiatus period was crap though.  Last few years have been good to great depending on the tour.
> 
> This is the worst season since 1980, when my folks took me to Wash DC instead of VT for vacation.  It ad to have been bad, if my dad didn't want to get some runs in.  He was a style master.  I may make it to Butternut tomorrow and Snow on Sunday and that will be it.



I would completely disagree with that. 2003-2004 had some sloppy composition but the jamming was totally inspired. It ghost, it jim, tower jam, spac piper, spac twist, Coventry melt.

2009-present is so neutered and I got really turned off by shows with 30 plus songs, hardly ever jamming type2, and trey pushing the abort button whenever a jam started cooking. Yea there's been the occasional Tahoe tweezer or Randal's chalkdust, but overall phish has gotten so boring to me that I no longer go unless it's local and free, so about once a year at most.

For me it's been all about the biscuits since 2007. 2011-2013 were rough but they are back to full throttle lately 

and I'll always love the dead and JRAD are making some reinvigorated gd music


----------



## drjeff (Mar 11, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> drjeff - any insight as to Mt. Snow for us?  Just tried looking at their webcams, but tough to tell much from them.



I talked with one of the race coaches from Mount Snow this AM who is here at Gunstock where I'm at now with my daughter and a couple other Mount Snow racers who are here.

He said yesterday that it was a bunch of base snow, with some corn and some thin/bare spots. Overall not too bad all things considered right now.

As he put it, it's not like it's going to realistically get any better the rest of the season than it is now given what mother nature is doing to us!!


----------



## Jcb890 (Mar 11, 2016)

drjeff said:


> I talked with one of the race coaches from Mount Snow this AM who is here at Gunstock where I'm at now with my daughter and a couple other Mount Snow racers who are here.
> 
> He said yesterday that it was a bunch of base snow, with some corn and some thin/bare spots. Overall not too bad all things considered right now.
> 
> As he put it, it's not like it's going to realistically get any better the rest of the season than it is now given what mother nature is doing to us!!



Yeah, to be expected.  Thank you for the insight.  Did he have any inkling on how long they would remain open?


----------



## drjeff (Mar 11, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Yeah, to be expected.  Thank you for the insight.  Did he have any inkling on how long they would remain open?



If this weather pattern stays as is, next weekend for sure and probably Easter weekend. Who knows about the 1st weekend in April??? I sure hope so as the 1st weekend in April is the bump comp on Ripcord and the winter brewfest!


----------



## Newpylong (Mar 11, 2016)

April 1? Come on, look at their webcams:  http://www.mountsnow.com/our-media/live-cams/

The lateral melt is well underway. Might be able to piece something together at Carinthia by flattening some features...


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 11, 2016)




----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 11, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I would completely disagree with that. 2003-2004 had some sloppy composition but the jamming was totally inspired. It ghost, it jim, tower jam, spac piper, spac twist, Coventry melt.
> 
> 2009-present is so neutered and I got really turned off by shows with 30 plus songs, hardly ever jamming type2, and trey pushing the abort button whenever a jam started cooking. Yea there's been the occasional Tahoe tweezer or Randal's chalkdust, but overall phish has gotten so boring to me that I no longer go unless it's local and free, so about once a year at most.
> 
> ...



I'm a 1.0 snob, jaded vet. Saw about 70 shows between 94 and 98.  By 99 things were noticeably deteriorating both on stage (consistency - still many great shows), but more so in the crowd, so I only saw a few shows.  You didn't see kids nodding off in the bathrooms with needles in their arms in the mid 90s. By 99 I saw it frequently and dropped out of the scene disgusted.

By 97 I was living in Burlington, my roommate was a minority owner at the original Higher Ground and I could walk down the street to see any show I wanted for $15 or less.  Started getting more into smaller bands seeing tons of Percy Hill, Gray boy, Mule, Moe. , Slip, Disco Biscuits etc. 

Skipped 2.0 all together and most of my tour buddies would either come home either psyched or really disappointed.  It wasn't like that 94-98.  Literally every show was at least very good if not exceptional during that era.

I've never really gotten back into Arena shows.  I've got a great little club in town (the Stone Church) that always gets some good, young up and coming talent.  Such a better experience. 

 I did see maybe ten Phish shows from 2009-2012 and had a few great nights, but more that were just good and a fun night out with friends.  Actually going to Portland this summer as it's been so long. They'll probably kill it and I'll wonder why I didn't buy tickets to more shows.  Then I'll see a local show and say screw arenas again and not bother for a couple years.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Mar 11, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> April 1? Come on, look at their webcams:  http://www.mountsnow.com/our-media/live-cams/
> 
> The lateral melt is well underway. Might be able to piece something together at Carinthia by flattening some features...




Wow, that is thinnnnn for this time of year. Only trails that have had A LOT of snow made on them will make it through the next week.


----------



## Pez (Mar 11, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I would completely disagree with that. 2003-2004 had some sloppy composition but the jamming was totally inspired. It ghost, it jim, tower jam, spac piper, spac twist, Coventry melt.
> 
> 2009-present is so neutered and I got really turned off by shows with 30 plus songs, hardly ever jamming type2, and trey pushing the abort button whenever a jam started cooking. Yea there's been the occasional Tahoe tweezer or Randal's chalkdust, but overall phish has gotten so boring to me that I no longer go unless it's local and free, so about once a year at most.
> 
> ...



Oh I hear where you are coming from, but I just never liked the sound they had from 03-04. I didn't know how to explain it. It just wasn't the Phish that I liked.  Didn't like the new martial at that point either.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## MarkC (Mar 11, 2016)

I seem to remember 01/02 to be particularly bad but not on this level


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> *By 97 I was living in Burlington, my roommate was a minority owner at the original Higher Ground* and I could walk down the street to see any show I wanted for $15 or less.



I used to go to that Higher Ground (near the Woolen Mill) back then whenever The Machine was in town.  I figured it was the closest someone born too late would ever come to hearing the original Pink Floyd.

Funny, we lived in Burlington at the same time.  South Willard street for me, a great location, far enough from Church Street that it wasn't obnoxious, but still close enough for stumbling distance.  You?  


Also, put me on the list of the Phish-haters who think they're horrible. I swear it's more of a lifestyle choice than a music choice.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 11, 2016)

97 - East Ave
98 - 99 Orchard Terrace

04-05  - corner of Pearl and N Willard

And that's fine you don't like Phish's style. Not your thing

Guess you don't like Progressive Jazz, Traditional Blues, Bluegrass, Reggae, American Roots Rock and Psychedelic Rock and Roll.  And that's just a small sample of the styles of music theyre proficient at. The band is not simply well versed, but virtuousos in all of those styles.   Four of the most technically proficient and original composers of the past 50 years.

Waters and Gilmour would agree with me.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> 97 - East Ave
> 98 - 99 Orchard Terrace
> 
> *04-05  - corner of Pearl and N Willard*



I moved in 2003, but I went to a few parties in the house on that northwestern corner (Victorian with wrapping porch).  Worked with a girl who was friends with a guy who lived there.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

Brick Victorian with Gold Trim?  

I lived in the top floor 1 bedroom apartment and didn't co-mingle much with the kids living on the bottom floor apartments.  That was my "you can't go home moment." I moved back there when i was 29-30 and done partying.  Felt old as shit living in town.  Such a difference from moving away when I was 24.

I left Burlington and VT after that and moved to Portland, ME, which felt much more "adult.". 

Now at 40 when I visit Portland  everyone looks like kids there too. Haha. 

I guess that's what should be expected.  The smaller cities like Portland have rents younger people can afford.


----------



## STREETSKIER (Mar 12, 2016)

never got in deep this season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> *Brick Victorian with Gold Trim?  *
> 
> I lived in the top floor 1 bedroom apartment and didn't co-mingle much with the kids living on the bottom floor apartments.  That was my "you can't go home moment." I moved back there when i was 29-30 and done partying.  Felt old as shit living in town.  Such a difference from moving away when I was 24.



I think so?   I just looked at GOOG street view, and it's the one with the circular turret room up top.  I think I left Burlington at the perfect time re: age, though I didnt plan it that way, I left to get my masters.  But yeah, I definitely realized the town was becoming played out in that you reach a certain age, and you dont want to be dodging puke piles on your walk home. IMO it's a very young college town, as college towns go.  My last year or so there, I hardly even went downtown.


----------



## crank (Mar 12, 2016)

This was the first and only season since I started skiing in my backyard in Poughkeepsie, NY when was 5 years old that I was living in the east and did not ski one day in the east.

Yes it WAS the worst ski season I can remember - ever.

Not a Phish fan though I respect their playing.  Have seen Trey a few times.  I have "Billy Breathes" and a 3 disk set of a live show.  For me it boils down to their songs.  There are only 2 or 3 that I actually like.  I do love the song "Free" - great guitar!


----------



## VTKilarney (Mar 12, 2016)

There is definitely an age by which you should leave Burlington.   Especially if you went to school there.  Frankly, as an adult, you might as well live in MA or southern NH since the sprawl in Burlington is just as bad.  


.


----------



## Smellytele (Mar 12, 2016)

Not much of a Phish fan. It is the singing I do not like. The jamming is fine most of the time. I do like Progressive Jazz, Traditional Blues, Bluegrass, Reggae, American Roots Rock and Psychedelic Rock and Roll just not their take on it.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Not much of a Phish fan. It is the singing I do not like. The jamming is fine most of the time. I do like Progressive Jazz, Traditional Blues, Bluegrass, Reggae, American Roots Rock and Psychedelic Rock and Roll just not their take on it.



And that's fine. I was mainly addressing BGs comments that Phish is about the lifestyle and not the music. That's a grossly inaccurate stereotype that demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about musical ability. 

 I don't expect everyone to love the band like I do, but most people I know who dig them do so because of their virtually limitless range in styles they can play.  These are four masters, some of the most well studied and technically proficient musicians in the world.  That's what I appreciate about them. The NY Philharmonic doesn't frequently collaborate with Trey because he's some hack who plays music to druggies chasing a lifestyle.  They play with him because he's one of the best guitarists and composers in the world.


----------



## witch hobble (Mar 12, 2016)

This thread drift is a bit like an improvisational jam band solo in the middle of a funeral dirge for the ski season.


----------



## makimono (Mar 12, 2016)

witch hobble said:


> This thread drift is a bit like an improvisational jam band solo in the middle of a funeral dirge for the ski season.



Hope you enjoy our new direction...


----------



## The Sneak (Mar 12, 2016)

Yeah but the greatest rock and roll wasn't necessarily created by virtuosos:

MC5
Chuck Berry
Faces
Rolling Stones

Just saying...

And the same goes for roots music ...Flying Burrito Brothers, Gene Clark, Louvin Brothers



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## darent (Mar 12, 2016)

The Burritos, haven't heard them mentioned in eons, still have their vinyls!!  how about Poco?


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> And that's fine. I was mainly addressing BGs comments that Phish is about the lifestyle and not the music. That's a grossly inaccurate stereotype that demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about musical ability.
> 
> I don't expect everyone to love the band like I do, but most people I know who dig them do so because of their virtually limitless range in styles they can play.  These are four masters, some of the most well studied and technically proficient musicians in the world.  That's what I appreciate about them. The NY Philharmonic doesn't frequently collaborate with Trey because he's some hack who plays music to druggies chasing a lifestyle.  They play with him because he's one of the best guitarists and composers in the world.



I don't think anyone is discrediting their musical talent, despite your claims that they are apparently the best musicians in the world, which I think most would call embellishment. I can rattle off 5 bassists that most would consider more technically proficient than Mike Gordon, and they don't sexually assault minors either. But that is all subjective (well minus the assaults), just like opinions about Trey, or any of the other members. (FYI - Flea, Jon Entwistle, Victor Wooton, Les Claypool, Jon Paul Jones, and like 20 more if you want me to keep going). And please, Page McConnell and Jon Fishman as some of the best piano/keyboardists or drummers in the world?  Don't confuse a band thats tight with all of them being the best in the business. They are a great band, but the sum of the whole is greater than the individual parts with Phish. 

What isn't is that Phish, and the Dead before them, have fan bases that are almost exclusively chasing a lifestyle. Its a perfectly fine choice, but come on man, they aren't all Juliard grads following virtuosos in their prime. You said it yourself, kids are on benders at shows these days.


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

The Sneak said:


> Yeah but the greatest rock and roll wasn't necessarily created by virtuosos:
> 
> MC5
> Chuck Berry
> ...



Chuck Berry was arguably more talented than Trey, and he said so himself so to speak when he (and a panel) ranked him No. 7 of all time in Rolling Stone. He only invented Rock and Roll.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

I never said MIke Gordon was THE best, I said ONE of and you're a moron for believing the assault stories. I like Flea, he isn't in the same stratosphere as Gordon  regarding technical ability. Victor I'll give you is better, Gordon has the ability of the others you listed easily. If you're trying to prove a point at least use someone like Jaco Pastorious as an example so you somewhat look like you know what you're talking about.

Fanbases almost "exclusively" chasing a lifestyle.  Okay dude. You see that on a documentary?  I suppose you think all who listen to Garth Brooks are fall down shitty lite beer drinking drunks who drive around in their pick up trucks talking about their dog dying, woman leaving them and how much they donate to the NRA.  Or that everyone who listens to rap music has gold teeth and carries a Glock in their shorts.


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I never said MIke Gordon was THE best, I said ONE of and you're a moron for believing the assault stories. I like Flea, he isn't in the same stratosphere as Gordon  regarding technical ability. Victor I'll give you is better, Gordon has the ability of the others you listed easily. If you're trying to prove a point at least use someone like Jaco Pastorious as an example so you somewhat look like you know what you're talking about.
> 
> Fanbases almost "exclusively" chasing a lifestyle.  Okay dude. You see that on a documentary?  I suppose you think all who listen to Garth Brooks are fall down shitty lite beer drinking drunks who drive around in their pick up trucks talking about their dog dying, woman leaving them and how much they donate to the NRA.  Or that everyone who listens to rap music has gold teeth and carries a Glock in their shorts.



Don't get your panties in a bunch, like I said its all subjective. Jaco is great, made sure my wedding band had a little Jaco thrown in. True story. Your blind love is showing though. 

And please, he got caught taking photos of a 9 year old in boathouse at 1 in the morning at a Grateful Dead show. Miraculously, after he "met" with the girls parents, they dropped charges. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize they got PAID (they did get an off the record beatdown in courtesy of the Hells Angels). I would argue it probably wasn't a great idea to bring a 9 year old to a Dead show in the first place, but he still did it. 

Concerning Trey, I would argue both John Mayer and Derek Trucks are more talented and have greater range, and that is just the current guys. Of all time, Jeff Beck is probably the greatest pure talent wise, Van Halen the most technically proficient, and Jimi Hendrix the most creative and pure (now talk about subjective for that category).


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

Garth Brooks is probably not the best example, but when you are one of the most successful (financially) artists of all time, its pretty hard to argue he has just one type, but middle aged middle Americans make up the vast majority of his fan base. 

Phish definitely attracts a certain group of people. Its not a terrible thing for me (maybe BG). Its like trying to argue UVM doesn't attract a certain type of applicant. I'm sure they have an asian violist somewhere, and a couple D1 basketball and hockey players, but the vast majority of the student body are the types that go to Phish concerts.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

Love Trucks, doesn't have close to the versatility of Trey.  Great Blues and Slide player, but that's about it. Mayer......LOLOLOLOL.  thanks for the laugh.  

As a comparison, both have been hired to play in Dead projects.  Trey deconstructed each song learning them in all 12 keys as well as went back and studied people like Django Reinhardt who influenced Garcia.  Mayer sounds like he read some tablature and figured out how to mix in some blues licks.

No panties in a bunch at all.  It's a good laugh reading the irrational arguments and stereotypes.  You're good at them!


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> And that's fine. I was mainly addressing *BGs comments that Phish is about the lifestyle and not the music. That's a grossly inaccurate stereotype* that demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about musical ability.



I'll stand by it being pretty accurate re: the average Phish fan.  

Meaning, you pluck a random Phish fan from the concert bowl, and you probably get a kid who's really into weed, who like's the minimalist lifestyle (even though they're probably a trust-fund baby from Greenwich, CT), and is into a certain movement (that changes, likely often), and are very gregarious with each other and share similar views.   We disagree, fine, but I think that's fairly accurate.



deadheadskier said:


> *  These are four masters*, some of *the most well studied and technically proficient musicians in the world. * That's what I appreciate about them.



You really dont view this as being way over-the-top?



AdironRider said:


> *Phish definitely attracts a certain group of people.* Its not a terrible thing for me (maybe BG). *Its like trying to argue UVM doesn't attract a certain type of applicant. I'm sure they have an asian violist somewhere, and a couple D1 basketball and hockey players, but the vast majority of the student body are the types that go to Phish concerts.*



Basically this, yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying.  

Not that there's anything wrong with that.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

Yay stereotypes!!!!


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

I know you and I haven't paid nice in the past, but put that behind you and enjoy just talking music for a change. 

For someone who doesn't like stereotypes, take the top 40 radio image out of your head and John Mayer rips. Case in point: 






And I personally rank Prince way up there. Love this from the Hall of Fame tribute. Petty all pissed that he gets one upped, and that young buck in the background just like "holy shit". Steve Winwood (a true prodigy) just holding it down in the background.


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

Since I can only embed one video at a time (come on admins!)


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 12, 2016)

Eric Clapton also said Derek Trucks "was a bottomless pit" in terms of his versatility. I'll take Clapton's assessment over yours no offense. Dude is like 35 and is already considered one of the all time greats. Kid was touring at age 12, and stepped in for Duane Allman of all people at age 19 or something.

PS - Learning a dead song in 12 keys is not impressive for anyone with musical training. Thats like what they teach 12 year olds in guitar lessons.


----------



## witch hobble (Mar 12, 2016)

AdironRider said:


> and stepped in for Duane Allman of all people at age 19


Dickey Betts you mean.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

I saw Derek live for the first time when he was probably 17. I've seen probably 30 times since.  He's a phenomenal blues guitarist, way better than Trey in that one style.  Have I ever seen him play bluegrass? No. Jazz? No. Sat in with NY Philharmonic? No.  He's amazing, but highly predictable. Can't say the same about Trey. The breadth of his work is just far broader.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Yay stereotypes!!!!



Clearly; but I think there's truth to every stereotype or XYZ stereotype wouldn't have been born in the first place.



AdironRider said:


> PS - Learning a dead song in 12 keys is not impressive for anyone with musical training. Thats like what they teach 12 year olds in guitar lessons.



Uh...oh....   

(((((((AdironRider just tossed a hand grenade down a narrow hallway))))))


----------



## witch hobble (Mar 12, 2016)

To be a virtuoso has a nerdish, studious component.  Phish has that.

rock and roll by its nature is primal and instinctive.  Not honed.  Much of the best rock and roll has been made by people who can't read music.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 12, 2016)

BG - you're not well versed in music and you're even worse on the humor front.  

Stick to being a wannabe federal reserve chief.  You're at least good at that.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> BG - you're not well versed in music and you're even worse on the humor front.
> 
> Stick to being a wannabe federal reserve chief.  You're at least good at that.



How many different instruments do you play?  (Wondering how many it takes)


----------



## cdskier (Mar 13, 2016)

Hmm...what the heck happened to this thread? I thought it was about whether this was the worst ski season ever...


----------



## Cannonball (Mar 13, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Hmm...what the heck happened to this thread? I thought it was about whether this was the worst ski season ever...



What happened to this thread PROVES that this is the worst season ever.


----------



## SnoDevil97 (Mar 13, 2016)

Conditions may not have been all that great, but still enjoyed getting out with my family & friends this season. Hoping conditions will be better next season with La Nina in effect.


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 13, 2016)

From Elk
Because of recent rain and a forecast that includes rain, Elk Mountain will close on Sunday March 13 for the 2015/2016 season.  Despite the efforts of our snowmaking crew, the groomers, and the mechanics, Mother Nature dealt us a hand that was the worst in our 56 year history.  Holders of full season passes for the 2015/2016 season who opt to purchase another full season pass for the 2016/2017 season will receive a credit equivalent to 31% of the amount paid for this year's season pass.  From all of us at Elk Mountain, thank you for your continued support.  Have a great summer.  

There will be no Spring Carnival.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Mar 13, 2016)

Wow that's classy! A 31% discount is pretty good, as long as they don raise prices 32%


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 13, 2016)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Wow that's classy! A 31% discount is pretty good, as long as they don raise prices 32%



Classy?    You're only getting anything "back" if you renew again.  

I guess you can say that's better than nothing, but in essence, they wish to hold you hostage with the promise of a decent deal.  And given the potential lackluster renewal forecast based on this season, one might argue it's somewhat disingenuously generous offer at that.  Shrewd indeed, but from what a local told me, Elk is one of the worst places for "shutting it down" early when they can.  My 2¢.


----------



## Rowsdower (Mar 13, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> Classy?    You're only getting anything "back" if you renew again.
> 
> I guess you can say that's better than nothing, but in essence, they wish to hold you hostage with the promise of a decent deal.  And given the potential lackluster renewal forecast based on this season, one might argue it's somewhat disingenuously generous offer at that.  Shrewd indeed, but from what a local told me, Elk is one of the worst places for "shutting it down" early when they can.  My 2¢.



Elk is in a tough situation. Most of the local crowds stay to the south at CBK and Blue, or go up to the Catskills. I imagine they have a harder time operating under marginal conditions than other PA mountains.


----------



## abc (Mar 14, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> they wish to hold you hostage with the promise of a decent deal.  And given the potential lackluster renewal forecast based on this season, one might argue it's somewhat disingenuously generous offer at that.  Shrewd indeed, but from what a local told me, Elk is one of the worst places for "shutting it down" early when they can.  My 2¢.


Anyone "held hostage" can't leave, which isn't true in this case. ANYONE can choose not to renew. 

But if they do, they're getting a 30% discount. Simple as that. 

There will be those who would re-new regardless. They'll benefit from the offer without having to do anything. But for some who CAN leave but RATHER NOT, the offer might be the breaking vote. I call that marketing, not hostage holding.

"Shrewd" it is. I fail to get what's disingenuous about it. Isn't any business exist for the purpose of take in more money than they spend? Do you rather they not offer the discount? How would that help the skiing public? By driving them to a different mountain?


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 14, 2016)

Rowsdower said:


> Elk is in a tough situation. Most of the local crowds stay to the south at CBK and Blue, or go up to the Catskills. I imagine they have a harder time operating under marginal conditions than other PA mountains.



Still my favorite place and worth the 2hrs it takes me to get there, less crowds, better conditions for the most part. Slowest lifts in Pa. 
The base elevation is 2500' . Just a crappy year , maybe they'll sell out ? They have a gem ( Woods ) that they never tap into, soooooooo much potential ! 

Camelback is fun but short, one steep pitch but not sustained. Have a few ski tracks with 4:02 lift 1:43 run . Its a fun place 
but without bumps boring.


----------



## trackbiker (Mar 14, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> Classy?    You're only getting anything "back" if you renew again.



What are other areas offering for a shortened season? At least Elk pass holders have the option of getting something.


----------



## goldsbar (Mar 14, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> but from what a local told me, Elk is one of the worst places for "shutting it down" early when they can.



That's possible, but they did a really good job of snow making this year all things considered.  They couldn't match Hunter, but I felt they were well ahead of Belleayre.  Their main bump trail was really good a couple of times and they actually attempted to get a couple of other bump trails going.  Grooming was superb.  They weren't trying to save money all season.


----------



## fcksummer (Mar 14, 2016)

Elk should adopt a business model where you pay per inch of natural snow and settle up at the end of the year.


----------



## Los (Mar 14, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> What happened to this thread PROVES that this is the worst season ever.



hahahaha - yep


----------



## danimals (Mar 14, 2016)

Rowsdower said:


> Elk is in a tough situation. Most of the local crowds stay to the south at CBK and Blue, or go up to the Catskills. I imagine they have a harder time operating under marginal conditions than other PA mountains.



If elk opened the trees, or at least didn't clip tickets, I would be there.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 14, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Still my favorite place and worth the 2hrs it takes me to get there, less crowds, better conditions for the most part. Slowest lifts in Pa.
> The base elevation is 2500' . Just a crappy year , maybe they'll sell out ? They have a gem ( Woods ) that they never tap into, soooooooo much potential !
> 
> Camelback is fun but short, one steep pitch but not sustained. Have a few ski tracks with 4:02 lift 1:43 run . Its a fun place
> but without bumps boring.


+1 elk is awesome. Best in PA for sure. Though I pretty nsure in there season pass fine details they have to give the season pass holders a percentage if what they paid if their open for certain amount of time. I know they opened late this year like end of January.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


----------



## Los (Mar 14, 2016)

bad news is that there are plenty more worst ski seasons on their way: https://weather.com/news/climate/news/record-warmest-february-global-2016

(warning - if you value your sleep, don't scroll through the pics at the end. The alaskan pics in particular are horrifying....)

this too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4e1XMdJlac&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Rowsdower (Mar 14, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Still my favorite place and worth the 2hrs it takes me to get there, less crowds, better conditions for the most part. Slowest lifts in Pa.
> The base elevation is 2500' . Just a crappy year , maybe they'll sell out ? They have a gem ( Woods ) that they never tap into, soooooooo much potential !
> 
> Camelback is fun but short, one steep pitch but not sustained. Have a few ski tracks with 4:02 lift 1:43 run . Its a fun place
> but without bumps boring.



Elk's summit is 2500* But yeah, I do like that mountain, just pointing out their position. Low crowds and a decent (for PA) terrain and snow. The times I've been there I've enjoyed myself.

Camelback was my favored mountain the last three years after I started snowboarding again from a five year hiatus in college. It was closest to where I was living in NJ. I liked the layout and really just felt comfortable there as a local hill. Got enough of a workout on their steeps. Could get a beer and a burger at Barley Creek afterwards. 

Now that we're back in PA it's a little out of the way, but really what killed it for me was the development they've been doing. The place was always crowded but you could still have a good time if you knew when to go. Now its a complete zoo. Last time I went the runout between the Glen double and Stevenson express was a slalom course of extended families walking from the hotel to the mountain coaster. It was a 50 minute wait for a table at Barley Creek during midday. And the place is losing it's aesthetics too. You drive up and are confronted with a giant cement wall from the indoor waterpark. It just ruins the atmosphere. We just said enough and are moving our local hill and season pass over to JFBB for next year. The peak pass definitely made that a lot easier, but we just feel the atmosphere there is more our speed. The only issue I have is JF is small. But if it gets us to make more trips up to NY and NH I think it will be worth it.


----------



## billski (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm still lovin' the skiing. (see my SB TR).  Don't count the season done yet guys (are there any gals around?)  so many are throwing in the towel.  It's a little early, but I'll be at Sugarbush and $teaux next weekend.   Yeah, I didn't use all my vouchers, but that's how it goes with an outdoors sport.  I want to go out with a bang, not a whimper.

Full disclosure.  I'm a "powder snob" and I chase it.  This year, I had to compromise big time, but setting your expectations can do a great deal towards having a good year.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 14, 2016)

yea i'm with that. had a ton of fun and got a weird tanline going from whiteface and killington this past weekend. and i'm hitting sunday river and/or cannon this coming weekend.


----------



## 4aprice (Mar 14, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Camelback is fun but short, one steep pitch but not sustained. Have a few ski tracks with 4:02 lift 1:43 run . Its a fun place but without bumps boring.



No doubt the runs are short but the width of the place does a lot to make up for it.  There are actually 15+ separate ways down by combining trails etc.  We generally start at one end and go all the way across.  It's yo-yoing for sure but most runs are T2b without stopping and I don't know about other people but I feel I get a good workout there.  Agree it skis much better with bumps and feel the mountain is doing a better job with providing them.  Had a long talk with the Mountain Operations team at the pass holder party this past weekend and I like the vibe I getting out of them.  They did something really interesting this season by letting different trails bump up for different weekends.  Example One weekend they blew fresh on Marjies and let it bump up for the weekend.  The next weekend they did the same thing with Rocket, the next Asp.  Gave a different feel to the mountain each weekend.  Uncle Bills and of course Lower Cleo will get bump love (if the mountain is not in survival mode which they had to be a couple of times this season) and I'm really pleased about what they did with stock piling Cliffhanger.  

I was really pleased with the job they did this year and they earned the renewals of my wife and my season passes (which we weren't sure we were going to do).  Now I got to get them to join the max pass like Wachusett did this year.  While certainly not the biggest or best or what ever you want it to be, for us it is so nice to have a local place to go, ski, have fun (because Camelback is a resort that has a weekend life better then others in the Pocono's, JMO) and still sleep at home.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2016)

Rowsdower said:


> Elk is in a tough situation. Most of the local crowds stay to the south at CBK and Blue, or go up to the Catskills. I imagine they have a harder time operating under marginal conditions than other PA mountains.



Good point.



danimals said:


> If elk opened the trees, or at least didn't clip tickets, I would be there.



Ditto.   I dont know how good their tree skiing would theoretically be, because I'm not driving ~ 3 hours to have my lift ticket clipped by trying to find out. Kicking people out for skiing trees is so 1986.



Los said:


> bad news is that there are plenty more worst ski seasons on their way:



Highly doubtful, statistically speaking.


----------



## HD333 (Mar 14, 2016)

My daughter looked at the bare glades off of the Sunnyside lift at WV this weekend and for the 100th time this season she said "I sure hope those open up"
Reality still hasn't set in for her. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 4aprice (Mar 14, 2016)

Rowsdower said:


> Elk is in a tough situation. Most of the local crowds stay to the south at CBK and Blue, or go up to the Catskills. I imagine they have a harder time operating under marginal conditions than other PA mountains.



I used to ski Elk when we had a place in the Pocono's and then when my boy was racing we got a 3 day weekend up there every season, but now it's really off my radar. (ditto for the Catskills) It's a fun place and the lifts don't bother me, but my feelings are if I'm going to hit the road for that long I'll just tack on the extra couple of hours to Vermont where I feel the mountains and snow are better.  



danimals said:


> If elk opened the trees, or at least didn't clip tickets, I would be there.



Do you really think they get enough snow for that?  I'm very wary of going into the woods south of Northern New England except for maybe Plattekill after a major LES event.  They have a hard enough time getting Lehigh open no less opening up the woods.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## cdskier (Mar 14, 2016)

On a brighter note (at least temporarily)...it is currently snowing pretty good at Sugarbush based on their webcams. The castlerock lift loading area is almost all white again (it was brown with a patch of white this morning). Also looks like they added a new webcam viewing the Mt Ellen terrain park. Strange timing to add a new web cam though.


----------



## skiadikt (Mar 14, 2016)

haven't read the previous 31 pages so forgive me for any repetitions ...  started  skiing in '74. clearly the worst season i can remember or am aware of. i  can mostly speak of killington and when you get 57" or less than 25% of  your yearly average of 240" that's catastrophic. the previous recorded  low in their history was '79-80 when they received 138" (more than  double this season's total) yet they still skied a mind boggling 221  days and closed may 23.  the important snowmaking month of december  was a staggering 13.5 degrees above normal with only 5 days in month  registering "normal" temps. hard to make and retain snow at those temps.  k was forced to constantly rebuild open terrain at very unproductive  snowmaking temps. pretty much put every ski area in the east behind the  8-ball. january was +2 above normal and feb was +4.5 with numerous big  thaw/rain events (5 alone in feb). by contrast last season k went 50  days w/o a day above freezing. march has continued the trend averaging  nearly 9 degrees above normal.  the northern vt areas have been spared a bit by averaging nearly double the snowfall k's received but still less than half their normal snowfall at best. bottom line. disaster of a season. probably worst ever ...


----------



## Los (Mar 14, 2016)

skiadikt said:


> haven't read the previous 31 pages so forgive me for any repetitions ...
> 
> started  skiing in '74. clearly the worst season i can remember or am aware of. i  can mostly speak of killington and when you get 57" or less than 25% of  your yearly average of 240" that's catastrophic. the previous recorded  low in their history was '79-80 when they received 138" (more than  double this season's total) yet they still skied a mind boggling 221  days and closed may 23.
> 
> ...



ouch. but don't forget to tell us how much fun you had this year. always a prerequisite on this board.


----------



## Rowsdower (Mar 14, 2016)

4aprice said:


> Do you really think they get enough snow for that?  I'm very wary of going into the woods south of Northern New England except for maybe Plattekill after a major LES event.  They have a hard enough time getting Lehigh open no less opening up the woods.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Even Blue has marked glades now. Sure, you can ski them, but you'll only get a couple days a season where they're really in play.


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 14, 2016)

Rowsdower said:


> Even Blue has marked glades now. Sure, you can ski them, but you'll only get a couple days a season where they're really in play.



Blues Glades are only a few acres , always ski behind someone else and turn when you see sparks!
 Pa. Glades are more accident , snow blows over between trails while snowmaking. They do provide a little base but declines further away from the main trails . That being said 13/14 people were skiing under the lifts and safe pretty much everywhere. We do get some descent Glade days , LOL Middle of February to early March ....

Some Elk eye candy ....So much potential going to waste!


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2016)

Isn't part of the reason they don't allow people in the trees at Elk is because they planted a whole bunch to reclaim some forest?  I thought I read that and that video certainly looks like it.


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 14, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Isn't part of the reason they don't allow people in the trees at Elk is because they planted a whole bunch to reclaim some forest?  I thought I read that and that video certainly looks like it.



I heard there was a tree collision death years ago . Side effect of the fir trees is shades slopes. When they were small acted like a cushion for out of control Newbs. Now they are taller and no low branches the large trunks are exposed.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2016)

Trail layout looks well designed at Elk.  Not a lot of intersections. Lots of unique ways down.  I've only seen it in the summertime.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 14, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Trail layout looks well designed at Elk.  Not a lot of intersections. Lots of unique ways down.  I've only seen it in the summertime.


It is definitely like that

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 14, 2016)

Only place in Pa. I've skied with Rime. Tunkhannock my favorite trail !...hardly ever as smooth as it was this day. Mostly bumps


----------



## Rowsdower (Mar 14, 2016)

That being said, people will duck into the trees if there's the snow anyway like they will do anywhere.


----------



## witch hobble (Mar 14, 2016)

That place looks cool.  Has any other ski area taken on such large scale reforesting (on purpose)?


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2016)

Sunday River should take notes and do the same in OZ.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2016)

Earliest Ice Out in history on Winnipesaukee

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...nnipesaukee/yzOgxauvLDNW8DPeUI1V5L/story.html

Record had been 3/23/2012

First time it's ever happened during winter


----------



## ss20 (Mar 19, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Earliest Ice Out in history on Winnipesaukee
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...nnipesaukee/yzOgxauvLDNW8DPeUI1V5L/story.html
> 
> ...



My hometown lake never even fully froze.  Last year it was frozen until April, which is incredible.

Candlewood Lake, CT, for those wondering...


----------



## Cannonball (Mar 19, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Earliest Ice Out in history on Winnipesaukee
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...nnipesaukee/yzOgxauvLDNW8DPeUI1V5L/story.html
> 
> ...



Tough year.  I have friends who live off the grid and count on Winni ice harvest for their whole years refrigeration.  They harvested early this year and hope to be OK.  But between ice and sugaring challenges they are having a harder time making it work lately.


----------



## Abominable (Mar 20, 2016)

"I have friends who live off the grid and count on Winni ice harvest for their whole years refrigeration."

Whoa, really?  Keep it packed in sawdust in a below ground cold storeroom?  Interesting. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Cannonball (Mar 20, 2016)

Abominable said:


> "I have friends who live off the grid and count on Winni ice harvest for their whole years refrigeration."
> 
> Whoa, really?  Keep it packed in sawdust in a below ground cold storeroom?  Interesting.
> 
> ...



Not below ground, but yes in sawdust in an 'ice shed'.


----------

