# Boots:  Seeking advice



## RootDKJ (Feb 21, 2010)

Hey everyone

I'm currently skiing on on (2006?) Nordica Speedmachiene 12's in a 27.0.  A good stiff boot that has a deep & secureheel pocket, great feedback and edge control.  I've always had some minor fit issues with them.  Yesterday, they were perfect...hardly and adjusting required.  Today, I just couldn't seem to get them to feel right.  When I do get them to feel right, I really have no complaints about them.  On days where they don't want to play, I find that opening the top buckles while in the lift line helps a lot.

About 2 years ago during a rainy day at Killington, I was killing time and spent some time doing a basic boot fitting.  Basin put me back in the same boot.  They thought it was a good match for my foot shape.

Hal at Northern Ski Works thought the Speedmachine 14 was a better choice.  The Speedmachine 14 is now the Speedmachine 130.  Hal also thought that the Tecnica Dragon 120 would also be a solid choice for me.  One thing I noticed, is he was using boots that were 27.5's.  Any idea why?  Would it really matter if I'm pulling the footbed out anyway?

My Speedmachiene 12's must have around 135 days on them now and I'd really like to get something that requires less adjustments during the day. What is the consensus of buying boots online if you already kinda know what fits?  

Lastly, anyone care to comment on the differences between the two models (foot bed width (last), stiffness, performance)?

Thanks


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## deadheadskier (Feb 22, 2010)

I gambled and bought on line for my Kryptons and it worked out, but I don't think I'll do it again despite the couple hundred in savings.  to risky a gamble.


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## Glenn (Feb 22, 2010)

I'd go back to a fitter and go from there. My wife and I have been visiting Mt Snow Bootworks a lot lately. Custom footbeds....ahhhh! You may pay a bit more vs leftovers from the internet, but you'll make it up easily for what you get in service and fit. IMHO.


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## marcski (Feb 22, 2010)

I have an older pair of speedmachines.  I love them. I spend some money, went to a good bootfitting shop. I had a pair of custom footbeds made, which I feel are great and certainly add to the boots comfort.  I don't even unbuckle the boots when I go in for lunch, let alone on the lifts.  They are starting to get a good number of days on them and when I am skiing more advanced terrain, I do crank them up a bit.  I think they have another year or so on them. 

But, Root, I think my next boot, I may try and just buy another pair of speedmachines online and transfer the footbed.  I'll look into the last sizes and try and get the same size.  Nordica's have always fit me best.  And...to be honest, other than having the footbed made, I didn't have to tweak the boots at all.  If I had to get some fitting issues taking care of, I think I'd be less apt to purchase my next pair online.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 22, 2010)

I had to do a lot to the Nordica's when I 1st got them.  The on the left boot, I really had to get the outside by the buckle blown out as I was getting a pinch there.  It took several trips to get that to an ok point.  I had a few other modifications done, but don't recall them now.

My skiing has gotten much better, so that's also figuring in my wanting for something stiffer.

Anyone care to compare the two models?


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## RootDKJ (Feb 22, 2010)

bigbog said:


> just my $.01, but sounds like there's no custom footbed in..y/n?  Yank the stock mat out and have a custom footbed made + maybe a little bootwork(as mentioned)...   Might also dry the liners same way, each day, if possible = not letting them stay in shells over night..
> 
> $.01


Superfeet Green's and heel lifts to help correct my (pronated) stance.


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## bigbog (Feb 22, 2010)

Of course the 14 will be stiffer...but the 12 is already a stiff boot..imho(being ~170-180lbs).  Fit in cuff, heel & surrounding area often seems to matter most, plus room over your instep for circulation...the rest can be worked..

$.01


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## wa-loaf (Feb 22, 2010)

Spend the money at the shop for boots!

Besides being stiffer the SM14/130 has a narrower last I believe. Otherwise has all the same features as the 12.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 22, 2010)

Related I had a pair of Nordica Hot Rods (same shell as the Doberman) that I bought on-line and spent a fair amount on boot fitting. The biggest problem was that the leaked like crazy, just basically sucked snow in while skiing. Put up with it for 2 years. ($400 boots, $150 footbeds, $200 for boot fitting/canting.alignment)

Picked up some Atomic CS130's this fall from the shop this time. Felt awesome in the shop, but once I started skiing I felt in the back seat all the time and the liner really sucked. Too soft and squishy for a performance boot. Went back to the shop for more work. Also did canting and alignment again. We put the liners from the Nordica's in just because they are much better (denser) than the Atomic ones. They ski awesome now. ($450 boots + $100 canting/alignment) Spent less and these should last for awhile now.


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## Greg (Feb 22, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> One thing I noticed, is he was using boots that were 27.5's.  Any idea why?  Would it really matter if I'm pulling the footbed out anyway?



Usually the only difference in half sizes are thinner liners. Same shell. So the 27.0 and 27.5 shells are the same.


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## hammer (Feb 22, 2010)

Greg said:


> Usually the only difference in half sizes are thinner liners. Same shell. So the 27.0 and 27.5 shells are the same.


IIRC sometimes the difference is in the thickness of the stock footbed...

Does anyone know the significance of the length marked on the side of the shell?


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## wa-loaf (Feb 22, 2010)

hammer said:


> IIRC sometimes the difference is in the thickness of the stock footbed...
> 
> Does anyone know the significance of the length marked on the side of the shell?



That's the boot sole length (bsl), you need to know that for mounting the bindings.


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## hammer (Feb 22, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> That's the boot sole length (bsl), you need to know that for mounting the bindings.


Thanks...any correlation between it and the internal shell size?  I just remember reading how different manufactures size differently, so a 26 isn't really the same between manufacturers...:roll:


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## wa-loaf (Feb 22, 2010)

hammer said:


> Thanks...any correlation between it and the internal shell size?  I just remember reading how different manufactures size differently, so a 26 isn't really the same between manufacturers...:roll:



The Shell Size 26, 26.5, 27, etc.. is the centimeter length of the inside of the shell. But that can vary from company to company.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 22, 2010)

Ok, I'm off to see the bootfitter.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 22, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> Ok, I'm off to see the bootfitter.


So I'm less then thrilled with the current selection the local shops have.  It seems like all the top ends of the product lines are either not carried or sold out.


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## Glenn (Feb 23, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> So I'm less then thrilled with the current selection the local shops have.  It seems like all the top ends of the product lines are either not carried or sold out.



Yeah, that's a common theme now. We were at Mt Snow Bootworks this weekend. They litterally have about 8-10 pairs of womens boots left in the shop. My wife was thinking of getting new boots. But footbeds saved the day.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 23, 2010)

Glenn said:


> But footbeds saved the day.



Good point. New footbeds might give you the little bit of extra comfort you need until you find the boot you want. And you can take them with you to the new boots.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 23, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Yeah, that's a common theme now. We were at Mt Snow Bootworks this weekend. They litterally have about 8-10 pairs of womens boots left in the shop. My wife was thinking of getting new boots. But footbeds saved the day.


The guy at Heino's basically told me that it was a pretty good season so far and they moved a good percentage of their stock rather quickly.  He actually suggested I try some of the larger shops near the mountains in VT or buy online.

He did say that if I found a boot I wanted online and came back to them for custom footbeds, that they would also take care of any minor shell issues for me.  I thought that was pretty reasonable.


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## o3jeff (Feb 23, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> The guy at Heino's basically told me that it was a pretty good season so far and they moved a good percentage of their stock rather quickly.  He actually suggested I try some of the larger shops near the mountains in VT or buy online.
> 
> He did say that if I found a boot I wanted online and came back to them for custom footbeds, that they would also take care of any minor shell issues for me.  I thought that was pretty reasonable.



Any shop will take care of adjustments if they aren't bought there, but at a price. When you buy the boots at a shop they will usually take care of the adjustments for free for a at least a year and will usually give you a break on the footbeds.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 23, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Any shop will take care of adjustments if they aren't bought there, but at a price. When you buy the boots at a shop they will usually take care of the adjustments for free for a at least a year and will usually give you a break on the footbeds.


Yeah, he said their rate for bench work is $60/hour.


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## Mildcat (Feb 23, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> He did say that if I found a boot I wanted online and came back to them for custom footbeds, that they would also take care of any minor shell issues for me.  I thought that was pretty reasonable.



That's pretty good customer service there. Did he give you any suggestions on boots that might fit you well?


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## Glenn (Feb 23, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Good point. New footbeds might give you the little bit of extra comfort you need until you find the boot you want. And you can take them with you to the new boots.




I'm fairly lucky...my feet seem to fit in most every boot I have. My current boots may be  a little big, but the two guys who we dealt with this weekend, didn't think it was as big of a deal as the first guy I saw a month ago. 

Root, it was explained to me that the footbed will allow the foot to "relax" and fill up more of the boot. I now have footbeds, and a lift under the boot liner. I can feel that my foot fills the boot out more. I guess I have high arches, so I can feel the arch support under my foot. It felt odd at first, but skiing, it feels very supportive. My wife has the same set up and found that it really eliminated the pressure points. We had to take some time to dial in her buckles after the beds went in. 

Oh...about the boot heaters! The guys removed the elements from our stock footbeds. They cleand up the wires and glued them to the new custom footbeds. This time, they put them on top of the bed, vs under it. I'm thinking this may help trasmit the heat better to the ol' foot vs the other setup. I will keep you posted. We had those installed Sunday afternoon...afte we finished skiing. We skied Sunday with the new footbeds, sans the heaters. 

Great guys at Mt. Snow Bootworks. I can't say enough about them. They know their stuff and they're just great all around people.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 23, 2010)

Mildcat said:


> That's pretty good customer service there. Did he give you any suggestions on boots that might fit you well?


Pretty much what I already know I should be looking at.  Nordica/Tecnica.  The surprise of the night was the Fisher X 120 (which would need a fair amount of work).

I did try on the Tecnica Dragon 120 they had that we knew was 1 size too big.  Overall, it felt good, it felt like the cuff of the boot wasn't as high as my current boots.


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## 4aprice (Feb 23, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> So I'm less then thrilled with the current selection the local shops have.  It seems like all the top ends of the product lines are either not carried or sold out.



Root:

Have you tried the Loft up at Camelback.  My wife was trying boots there and they seemed to have a good selection.  I know its a little out of your way but they really seem to be a good store.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## RootDKJ (Feb 23, 2010)

4aprice said:


> Root:
> 
> Have you tried the Loft up at Camelback.  My wife was trying boots there and they seemed to have a good selection.  I know its a little out of your way but they really seem to be a good store.
> 
> ...


No, I haven't.  Good idea though.


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## bigbog (Feb 23, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> Pretty much what I already know I should be looking at.  Nordica/Tecnica.  The surprise of the night was the Fisher X 120 (which would need a fair amount of work)..........


One of those Fischers with abducted heel?   A bit of design that really works for me...would love to have in my next boot..:roll:


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## RootDKJ (Feb 23, 2010)

I went to two more ski shops tonight.

Shop #1 - Kid ask me what size shoe I wear.  I tell him I usually take a size 27 boot.  He thinks that I'll be ok in a 28 because that's all he has.  He also  thinks the boots I'm looking into are too stiff for East coast skiing...especially skiing at Blue.  Oh yeah, he doesn't think the Jet Fuel is wide enough either.  I walked out. :evil:

Shop #2 Is just plain sold out of their high end boots. They offered to fit me into a model down and then would call around to see what else they could get. 

Online is looking better and better.


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## o3jeff (Feb 23, 2010)

Sounds like you need to make a trip up north to do some boot shopping and skiing.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 23, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Sounds like you need to make a trip up north to do some boot shopping and skiing.


Funny you should mention that...


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## Glenn (Feb 24, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Sounds like you need to make a trip up north to do some boot shopping and skiing.



I agree. Root...it may be a PITA, but it's probably worth the drive. Plus, you've wanted to hit Mt. Snow this year...there are a number of shops around there that could help you out. :beer:


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## RootDKJ (Feb 24, 2010)

Glenn said:


> I agree. Root...it may be a PITA, but it's probably worth the drive. Plus, you've wanted to hit Mt. Snow this year...there are a number of shops around there that could help you out. :beer:


I've been looking for some Mt Snow or Stratton deals, but I'm striking out.  My next trip into VT will be 3/12-3/14, but I'm really leaning towards going back to Stowe. 

There's one more shop in the area that I'm going to go to this morning, then there's a few near Blue I can also try.


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## o3jeff (Feb 24, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> I've been looking for some Mt Snow or Stratton deals, but I'm striking out.  My next trip into VT will be 3/12-3/14, but I'm really leaning towards going back to Stowe.
> 
> There's one more shop in the area that I'm going to go to this morning, then there's a few near Blue I can also try.



Go to Vt earlier that week(mid-week) and I'll meet you at Sugarbush or Stowe.

Isn't Phil's shop somewhere in your neck of the woods?


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## RootDKJ (Feb 24, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Go to Vt earlier that week(mid-week) and I'll meet you at Sugarbush or Stowe.
> 
> Isn't Phil's shop somewhere in your neck of the woods?


I really can't switch the dates around.  His shop is in Exton, which is near Downingtown, PA.  That's about just over a 2 hour drive from here.  My company has offices out that way, but it's been over a year since I've had to go out there for anything.


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## Glenn (Feb 24, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> I really can't switch the dates around.  His shop is in Exton, which is near Downingtown, PA.  That's about just over a 2 hour drive from here.  My company has offices out that way, but it's been over a year since I've had to go out there for anything.



Have someone break something you can fix.   :wink:


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## RootDKJ (Feb 24, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Have someone break something you can fix.   :wink:


Nooooooo!!! :uzi:

We actually have a huge engineeing testing facility near there.  I've been trying to get myself invited in there for a tour for quite some time.  Might be a good idea to re-double my efforts on that front.

Ok, I'm off to the last shop in the area and REI.


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## Glenn (Feb 24, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> Nooooooo!!! :uzi:
> 
> We actually have a huge engineeing testing facility near there.  I've been trying to get myself invited in there for a tour for quite some time.  Might be a good idea to re-double my efforts on that front.
> 
> Ok, I'm off to the last shop in the area and REI.



LOL! Keep us posted Root!


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## RootDKJ (Feb 24, 2010)

I struck out at REI.  They've been cleaned out pretty good.

Next shop also is out of stock on their top end boots.  Surprisingly, they had a pair of Atomic RT CS 130's in my size.  I tried them on and they were surprisingly comfortable.  The right foot felt really ok, the left foot I had a 6th toe feeling...but I feel that on every pair of boots I try on.


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## Beetlenut (Feb 24, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> ... The right foot felt really ok, the left foot I had a 6th toe feeling...but I feel that on every pair of boots I try on.


 
Have you checked to see if you can count to 11 with your toes? All this talk about boots has only refueled my desire to get new ones again. I'll probably wait until the off season though. I don't want to settle,...again! Yesterday I had the liners out of my shells while adding some more padding to the rear of the cuff, and I decided to shell-fit my foot. I was able to get almost three fingers between the back of my heel and the cuff. Last time I checked, I'm wasn't shrinking.


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## RootDKJ (Feb 25, 2010)

I sprung for the boots online.  It was too good of a price to pass up, and Hal at Northern Ski Works did fit me to it a year ago.

I figure the worst case would be that I have some minor shell issues.  If that happens, I'll go back to Heino's and finally get custom footbeds done since they said if I bought the footbeds from them they would include some minor shell work with it.  I still make out ahead (on many levels) if that's the case.  $430 for boots + $160 for footbeds = $590...well below $750 they usually go for.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 1, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> I struck out at REI.  They've been cleaned out pretty good.
> 
> Next shop also is out of stock on their top end boots.  Surprisingly, they had a pair of Atomic RT CS 130's in my size.  I tried them on and they were surprisingly comfortable.  The right foot felt really ok, the left foot I had a 6th toe feeling...but I feel that on every pair of boots I try on.



I have these. The liner is really squishy. So much so, that I now have the the old liners from my Nordica's in the boots. The boot is great otherwise.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 3, 2010)

Root's new boots arrive today!  Just in time, as Root was having some major shin bang in his old boots yesterday.


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## Glenn (Mar 3, 2010)

What did you end up with Dave? The link goes to the site, but there's no item displaying. Maybe they sold out...or you got the last pair!


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## RootDKJ (Mar 3, 2010)

Glenn said:


> What did you end up with Dave? The link goes to the site, but there's no item displaying. Maybe they sold out...or you got the last pair!


Dave got the Tecncia Dragon 120.


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## Glenn (Mar 3, 2010)

Good deal! Testing them out this weekend?


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## RootDKJ (Mar 3, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Good deal! Testing them out this weekend?


Oh hell yeah!


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## RootDKJ (Mar 4, 2010)

Boots arrived yesterday while I was in class.  I got them off o2gearshop.com for $429.  I had noticed that yesterday, the dropped the price to $399, so I emailed their customer service and they promptly issued a $30 refund to my CC.  I'd definitely buy from them again.  Low prices, fast shipping and good customer service.  What else could one ask for?  Now I'm super-stoked to take them out on Saturday.


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## Glenn (Mar 4, 2010)

I think you should ski in jeans. They match the boots nicely. :lol:


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## wa-loaf (Mar 4, 2010)

Time to swap the heaters around ...


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## RootDKJ (Mar 4, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Time to swap the heaters around ...


If we were in Jan/Feb, I would of had it done already.  Now that the warmer weather is here (at least in NJ/PA) I'm going to hold off a bit to figure out if I have any hot/pinch spots.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 8, 2010)

Ok, time for a Monday morning update.

Saturday - I had adjusted the canting on the boots (as indicated in the book) for someone who pronates, but left the stock footbed in there.  I never felt a boot so comfortable and responsive as I did on my first few runs.  It felt like my feet were in bowls of jello.  Ahhh.  After about 2 hours of hard skiing, I started to feel some pinch spots on the outsides of both my feet by the 1st buckle.  I'd qualify that pinch at 2/10 when it started and 5/10 by the end of the day.  After wearing them for over 5 hours, my feet were downright cramping up.

Sunday - After talking with KT from Nestor's at Bump-n-Jump, he suggested I put in my Superfeet Greens, and reset the canting to neutral, and give it another day.  I could feel the same pinch spot much sooner in the day, but the overwhelming comfort and support the rest of the boot provided, quickly outpowered that.  I could feel that if my arches were supported a little more, my feet would be in such a position where I that pinch would be greatly reduced.  Anyway, after 4 hours, my feet were cramping up a little.  Overall I'd rate the pinch at 4/10.  Not bad.

After skiing, I went to Nestor's to meet up with KT.  He got a good laugh at my voodoo work of adding heel lifts and a roll to the Superfeet's.  He measured the effectiveness of them and confirmed my assumption that they were not providing enough support.  He measured each foot up for a set of semi-custom Aline Footbeds.  Very cool concept behind these.  Anyway, these felt great and really seemed to address the hot spot on both feet (at least in the store).  I'll give them a try out tonight and stop back at Nestor's to give KT a report on how they feel.  He'll also transfer over my heaters for me.  KT is a super nice guy.  I never really realized how close Nestor's is to Blue (since I really don't have reason to travel that way), and it kinda puts me in a good spot for the ride back home.  Overall, this is turning out really well!


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