# Does Mad River Scare You a Little?   NO!



## billski (Apr 3, 2015)

THIS!!!


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## rtjcbrown (Apr 3, 2015)

MRG




Everyone else


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 3, 2015)

Thats a great video promo.


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## Edd (Apr 3, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Thats a great video promo.



Yeah, nicely done.


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## KevinF (Apr 3, 2015)

MRG probably has the biggest "image problem" of any New England ski area, at least among those who haven't been there...  I thought that was a great video.

I admit the first time I went to MRG I was thinking that I was in for a day that would be far, far harder than what I actually found.  I was thinking that everything was going to be stupid steep, stupid icy and stupid narrow.  And it's really not like that at all.


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## dlague (Apr 3, 2015)

2 things

1) this is part of MRG trying to appeal to non expert or advanced skiers because of their rep.  It came out last year which is when I saw it.
2) I watched it again and I got this sinking feeling that ski season is nearing the end and I got really sad - nice job!


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## joshua segal (Apr 3, 2015)

The reasons people think MRG is intimidating:
- Most major areas have a significant flat near the bottom to catch one's breath.  MRG does not.
- Without snowmaking on most of the hill, it can be sketchy if there has been a "snow drought"
- They groom, but they groom a lower percentage of the mountain than most areas groom
- There are no steeps (black diamonds) that don't include moguls
- Only a few of the blue squares don't include moguls
- The other skiers IMO are better on average than skiers at most other areas.  I was having a pretty good run down Chute when I was passed by a telemarker who proceeded to do a helicopter right in front of me.  That doesn't happen at other places and it is humbling!


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## hammer (Apr 3, 2015)

Is the vibe at MRG similar to Magic?  Magic has plenty of challenging trails and lots of really good skiers, but it's not intimidating to someone with more limited skills IMO...


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 3, 2015)

Skied MRG for the first time on Wednesday.  Neat place, and it was in great shape given the 4" the day before.  The old-fashioned vibe reminded me of Plattekill.

I do agree with the image problem, for instance, a few weeks ago when I was planning this trip and told my gf we'd be going there, the first thing out of her mouth was, _"will I be able to ski there?_"  Turns out she absolutely loved it, even though there were moguls on quite a bit of the intermediate terrain, which she's not keen on.

One thing I noticed was there were a lot of old people skiing there.  Very cool to see folks in their 70s still skiing their heart's out, but it definitely stood out to me.


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## boston_e (Apr 3, 2015)

I wonder if the "ski it if you can" motto is starting to work against them.... That's the only reason people think it is harder than other vermont mountains.  The video is well done... Reminds me of the vibe I feel at Pico.

MRG was #1 on my "overrated" list in that other  thread a while back, but someday I'd like to give it another shot.... But that won't be for a while as I'm unlikely to ditch friends and family that I like to go with who are snowboarders.


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## billski (Apr 3, 2015)

There is more of a social aspect at MRG, but that is due in large part to its longevity.  It's fair to say that many shareholders don't know each other.  However, when you come back year after year, there are familiar faces.  Magic is just starting to grow into that.   There are always  a TON of little kids.  Not just skiing, but crawling all over basebox and birdcage.   And just screwing around like kids do.  Definitely feels more like a family place.

Regarding runout, just circle your way over to birdland, that's a great place to catch your breath.  My daughter, a beginner-almost-intermediate just loved birdland, stayed there all day.   


Snowmaking?   You just have to learn to not be so fussy.   "Back in my day".... (here he goes again)  rocks, dirt and grass were de rigeur.   And terrain?  Most places were just like this. They were just part of skiing.  For the Okemo and Stratton crowd that need wall to wall cord,  Macys, Old Navy, McDonalds and TJ Maxx, not so much.  

Moguls just come with ungroomed stuff.  Period.

Agree on Skills - yes, (especially the little ones)are a step above.  Difference is that they are not full of themselves.


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## billski (Apr 3, 2015)

boston_e said:


> I wonder if the "ski it if you can" motto is starting to work against them.... That's the only reason people think it is harder than other vermont mountains.


   Frankly, MRG doesn't really care what we think.  Bringing in the paying public is a secondary (albeit fiscally important) priority

See you there tomorrow.  If you can.


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## St. Bear (Apr 3, 2015)

hammer said:


> Is the vibe at MRG similar to Magic?  Magic has plenty of challenging trails and lots of really good skiers, but it's not intimidating to someone with more limited skills IMO...



Not at all. There are a lot of similarities between the resorts. Vibe, or accessibility, are not among them.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 3, 2015)

billski said:


> Bringing in the paying public is a secondary (albeit fiscally important) priority



I definitely got that feeling.  There are some public friendly things they could do, that they dont, that makes that somewhat clear.  Regarding fiscal matters you mentioned, I overheard an employee say that while ticket sales are down this year from last year, overall sales are up due to more food/bevy/merch.  With the outperforming natural snow this year and last, I imagine they've done well.


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## boston_e (Apr 3, 2015)

billski said:


> Frankly, MRG doesn't really care what we think.  Bringing in the paying public is a secondary (albeit fiscally important) priority
> 
> See you there tomorrow.  If you can.



Did you think I meant in any way other than fiscally? :roll:

Not that I've paid a lot of attention to MRG marketing over the years, but it is very different from anything I've ever seen from them, so I'd assume they are trying to expand the base of people coming.

As mentioned I'm not ditching a snowboarding buddy for the day, so someone else is getting our groups dollars. :wink:


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## xwhaler (Apr 3, 2015)

Re: Revenue.   I'm always struck a bit by the MRG gift shop. Its strategically located right on the way out, but outside of the crowded lodge.  Its also very well stocked with logo merchandise and not exactly cheap.  Seems to be bigger and more of a focus than other shops I've been in.
 I was a sucker after an incredible March day a few weeks ago and very quickly dropped $75 on 3 t shirts.
Have to think they do well with that profit center.    People want to be "seen" wearing MRG logo!


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## Cannonball (Apr 3, 2015)

Naming your PR video "Does Mad River Scare You a Little" might not be the best way to dispel the concern.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 3, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> *  Its also very well stocked with logo merchandise and not exactly cheap.  *Seems to be bigger and more
> I was a sucker after an incredible March day a few weeks ago and very quickly dropped $75 on 3 t shirts.



I thought it was pretty reasonable.  Granted it was end-of-season sale and everything was 20% off, but the T-shirts were only $22 full price, and the stickers (we get a sticker for the Thule rack for every new place we hit) were $1. 

 I'm not sure if the fact that store is in mandatory passing on your way out is "Disney strategic" or serendipitous due to MRG's small size (the entire place is just a few buildings), but it no doubt funnels folks past the merch.



Cannonball said:


> *Naming your PR video "Does Mad River Scare You a Little" might not be the best way to dispel the concern.*



I disagree. 

 Were that video their main PR hit I'd agree with you 100%, but the video is targeted specifically at those who are apprehensive because they already have said fear, which the piece aims to address.


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## Harvey (Apr 3, 2015)

Mad is not walking away from their brand anytime soon.


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## marcski (Apr 4, 2015)

Those stickers used to free as you walked out at the end of a ski day.


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## boston_e (Apr 4, 2015)

Regarding revenue in general... I've always been curious about a ski resorts balance sheet and where most of the profit comes from.  Are they happy "breaking even" on the lift tickets and generated most of the profit from all the other stuff?  Lessons, rentals, $4 gatorades etc etc


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 4, 2015)

marcski said:


> Those stickers used to free as you walked out at the end of a ski day.



I got a free sticker at Stowe on Tuesday.   Surely the only thing that's free at Stowe.

On a serious note, and perhaps my memory is wrong because I was little, but didn't most mountains typically used to give their stickers away?   It's free marketing for them.  

In addition to Stowe, Gore and Whiteface (NY run) still give their stickers away.


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## Edd (Apr 4, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I got a free sticker at Stowe on Tuesday.   Surely the only thing that's free at Stowe.
> 
> On a serious note, and perhaps my memory is wrong because I was little, but didn't most mountains typically used to give their stickers away?   It's free marketing for them.
> 
> In addition to Stowe, Gore and Whiteface (NY run) still give their stickers away.



Almost positive I saw them for sale at Stowe this year. I wonder if they have free periods and paid ones. 

Most places seem to be free when I go.


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## Tin (Apr 4, 2015)

MRG is scary and sneaky in that it has more open wooded areas that funnel into small chutes and you come around a bend and there is a 6 footer with no way around.


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## Old Duderino (Apr 4, 2015)

Well I guess this shows my ignorance of MRG, I used the think the "ski it if you can" slogan was taken literally, as in we're so old school we don't even make snow here so we may not be open, rather than a challenge to a skiers ability to ski it.


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## ThinkSnow (Apr 6, 2015)

Recently seen at Stowe:


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## St. Bear (Apr 6, 2015)

boston_e said:


> Regarding revenue in general... I've always been curious about a ski resorts balance sheet and where most of the profit comes from.  Are they happy "breaking even" on the lift tickets and generated most of the profit from all the other stuff?  Lessons, rentals, $4 gatorades etc etc



I always thought this was the case and lift tickets were loss leaders, especially out West, but a couple years ago I read an article that interviewed the CEO of Vail, and they had a breakdown of revenue, and lift tickets were something like ~50%.


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## joshua segal (Apr 6, 2015)

I don't get to MRG often, but when I go, there is no question in my mind that there is a vibe, a mystique and a history, that make it a special place.  And I don't know any area in the east that has steeper, gnarlier or more difficult skiing (even if you don't go on trails that are not on the trail map.)


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## skiur (Apr 6, 2015)

I dont expect to ever ski there unless they change there racist ways and allow snowboarders.  While I ski my girl boards and 99% of my days on the mountain are with her so I wont be going there. Like someone said in this thread it seems like a lot of old people there which is probably why they dont like boarders which I do believe is there right I just wont be giving them any of my money.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 6, 2015)

skiur said:


> I dont expect to ever ski there unless they *change there racist ways and allow snowboarders.*



Somebody needs to learn the definition of the word, "racist".


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## joshua segal (Apr 6, 2015)

skiur said:


> I dont expect to ever ski there unless they change there racist ways and allow snowboarders.  While I ski my girl boards and 99% of my days on the mountain are with her so I wont be going there. Like someone said in this thread it seems like a lot of old people there which is probably why they dont like boarders which I do believe is there right I just wont be giving them any of my money.



At MRG, the skiers blame the telemarkers for all the evils that skiers blame snowboarders for at other areas. Perhaps if those who want snowboarders allowed would join (or lobby members of) the co-op, you might make some headway.


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## Cannonball (Apr 6, 2015)

skiur said:


> I dont expect to ever ski there unless they change there racist ways and allow snowboarders.  .



"Snowboarder" is not a race.  It would be cool if it was though!!  I just had to fill out some employment info.  I should have checked "other" and written in "snowboarder"


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## farlep99 (Apr 6, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Somebody needs to learn the definition of the word, "racist".



And proper usage of "their."


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## Scruffy (Apr 6, 2015)

Old Duderino said:


> Well I guess this shows my ignorance of MRG, I used the think the "ski it if you can" slogan was taken literally, as in we're so old school we don't even make snow here so we may not be open, rather than a challenge to a skiers ability to ski it.



 It's a brilliant piece of marketing, that has stood the test of time. Ending in the transitive verb "can", the " if you can" asks the reader the question, "Can you ski it?" What does "can" mean is left open to interpretation. 

Can you get away to ski it? - give yourself permission, or get permission, from work or wife, to ski it.
Since we don't make much snow, does your schedule line up with mother nature's schedule? Again, permission, but at the right time. 
Ability - Do you have the ability to ski at Mad River Glen? Open to interpretation at any level, but since the mountain has green and blue runs, certainly all levels have the ability to ski it. But this is where the marketing magic occurs. Without actually stating, "Are you skier enough?" The sentence plays on our human insecurities to measure up. It's read as a silent challenge to many.
And "Ski it", what does it mean to "Ski it?" To some, it means - I arrived, put skis on my feet, rode the lift, and slid down the slopes. To others, it means - you haven't actually "skied it", until you've achieved an expert level of skiing and sampled the entire mountain, and all it's hidden expert gems; again the challenge appears.


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## KevinF (Apr 6, 2015)

skiur said:


> I dont expect to ever ski there unless they change there racist ways and allow snowboarders.  While I ski my girl boards and 99% of my days on the mountain are with her so I wont be going there. Like someone said in this thread it seems like a lot of old people there which is probably why they dont like boarders which I do believe is there right I just wont be giving them any of my money.



I'm sure your well constructed rant will cause the MRG shareholders to change their ways and open their doors to everyone next season.  Congratulations.


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## billski (Apr 6, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm not sure if the fact that store is in mandatory passing on your way out is "Disney strategic" or serendipitous due to MRG's small size (the entire place is just a few buildings), but it no doubt funnels folks past the merch.



To me, the positioning of the store is emblematic of their desire to remain retro.  Attaching the store to the main lodge just makes it convenient for the company to empty your pockets of money.  MRG makes it convenient to ski - the lodge gets you on the slope with a minimum of fuss, rentals are on your way in.  You don't see people lounging around all day or people reserving tables for the day.  Can any other resort be have lifts any closer to the lodge?

If they wanted to reap more bucks from the store, they'd probably stay open later than 30 minutes after the lifts close.  I suppose the staff needs to get home for supper.


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## Old Duderino (Apr 6, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> "Snowboarder" is not a race.  It would be cool if it was though!!  I just had to fill out some employment info.  I should have checked "other" and written in "snowboarder"



I ski and snowboard so maybe I could check "other" and write in "bi-boardinal".  

I skied Deer Valley and Alta way back in the day before snowboarding was allowed anywhere.  I'm firmly in the "meh" camp for those resorts that continue to ban snowboarding.  I could never go back to either of those places again and not feel like I've missed anything I can't get elsewhere or pack skis and go if I was with a group that was gung-ho to hit either of them.  Unlikely that I'll ever hit MRG since it's a days drive and my kids are firmly in the snowboarder camp.


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## billski (Apr 6, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> It's a brilliant piece of marketing, that has stood the test of time. Ending in the transitive verb "can", the " if you can" asks the reader the question, "Can you ski it?" What does "can" mean is left open to interpretation.



Finkel calls the sticker the "pirate flag of the ski industry".  I can't think of a better way to put it.  Can you do it without your Starbucks?  Gourmet meals?  Massage? Slopeside lodging?


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## Puck it (Apr 6, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> "Snowboarder" is not a race.  It would be cool if it was though!!  I just had to fill out some employment info.  I should have checked "other" and written in "snowboarder"



Look like it is to me.


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## billski (Apr 6, 2015)

skiur said:


> Like someone said in this thread it seems like a lot of old people there which is probably why they dont like boarders



It's more complicated than that.  On the weekend I consistently see little kids crawling around and pouring in and out of the lodge.   I see more little kids than I can count popping in and out of the woods without adult supervision.  There are a lot of young families, so it's not fair to characterize the shareholders as "old".  I have seen some rather curmudgeonly types show up at the shareholder's meeting on Saturday; I'd argue the demographic is broad.  Some of it is simply the "be different" mentality.

The "no snowboarders" is a rule that goes back to Betsy Pratt, former owner.  She had MRG up for sale for more than a decade, but would only sell it to a concern that agreed to hold it to her tenets.  While the resort has reformed a little (some grooming, some snowmaking), most of her reasons have prevailed.   It's also part of their "pirate flag" thinking.  You don't have to come; you don't have to like us.  We don't care, we are doing just fine without growth, and that includes boarding.


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## Cannonball (Apr 6, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Look like it is to me.



It's evolution baby!


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## dlague (Apr 6, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> It's evolution baby!



Said in an Austin Power's voice?


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## Cannonball (Apr 6, 2015)

dlague said:


> Said in an Austin Power's voice?



Eddie Vedder


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## deadheadskier (Apr 6, 2015)

billski said:


> The "no snowboarders" is a rule that goes back to Betsy Pratt, former owner.  She had MRG up for sale for more than a decade, but would only sell it to a concern that agreed to hold it to her tenets.  While the resort has reformed a little (some grooming, some snowmaking), most of her reasons have prevailed.   It's also part of their "pirate flag" thinking.  You don't have to come; you don't have to like us.  We don't care, we are doing just fine without growth, and that includes boarding.



Right.  And the story goes some snowboarders were rude to her, so she said no more.  From 1986-1992 snowboarding was allowed at MRG. 

I've shared my unpopular opinion before, but I believe if you're a shareholder at MRG and don't want to share the slopes with snowboarders, then you're a dick.  It is absolutely ridiculous that the ban exists at MRG, Alta and Deer Valley still.  People sometimes say, "if you want snowboarders to be allowed, then buy a share and vote your choice."   I'd argue that if they opened up to snowboarding, they'd sell hundreds of new shares.   The timing right now would be appropriate as apparently management has been talking of a massive investment in the base facilities.  That won't happen on operating revenue alone.


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## KevinF (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Right.  And the story goes some snowboarders were rude to her, so she said no more.  From 1986-1992 snowboarding was allowed at MRG.
> 
> I've shared my unpopular opinion before, but I believe if you're a shareholder at MRG and don't want to share the slopes with snowboarders, then you're a dick.  It is absolutely ridiculous that the ban exists at MRG, Alta and Deer Valley still.  People sometimes say, "if you want snowboarders to be allowed, then buy a share and vote your choice."   I'd argue that if they opened up to snowboarding, they'd sell hundreds of new shares.   The timing right now would be appropriate as apparently management has been talking of a massive investment in the base facilities.  That won't happen on operating revenue alone.



A "massive investment in base facilities"?  At MRG?  What would that consist of, painting a few things?  This is a place whose off-season "improvements" list once contained:  "fixed a dripping faucet".


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## deadheadskier (Apr 6, 2015)

Nope, major upgrade.  Replacing ski patrol building and expanding the base lodge by 50%.  This was told to me by a shareholder.  I want to say the figure was in the $5M range.  Big money.


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## mr magoo (Apr 6, 2015)

I do agree with the image problem, for instance, a few weeks ago when I was planning this trip and told my gf we'd be going there, the first thing out of her mouth was, _"will I be able to ski there?_"  Turns out she absolutely loved it, even though there were moguls on quite a bit of the intermediate terrain, which she's not keen on.

One reason your gf was pleasantly surprised is that the moguls ARE different. Be it the absence of snowboarders scraping or beginner skiers cutting across the fall line, the ungroomed at MRG sets up nicely and remains easier to flow. Its ok to dump your snowboarder friends.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 6, 2015)

mr magoo said:


> One reason your gf was pleasantly surprised is that *the moguls ARE different. *



I've never seen more perfect moguls, in more places, in my entire skiing life. 

 It reinforces my long-held hypothesis that poor snowboarding is worse for mogul development than poor skiing.  The only other possible explanation is that the concentration of poor skiers is much lower at MRG than everywhere else. At any rate, it was interesting to see.


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## Edd (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I've shared my unpopular opinion before, but I believe if you're a shareholder at MRG and don't want to share the slopes with snowboarders, then you're a dick.  It is absolutely ridiculous that the ban exists at MRG, Alta and Deer Valley still.



100%. The entire thought process is baffling. Snowboarders ruin bumps?  OK, I guess, but so do crappy bump skiers, of which I am one. So what are we really talking about? It seems like complete nonsense.


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## bdfreetuna (Apr 6, 2015)

Tin said:


> MRG is scary and sneaky in that it has more open wooded areas that funnel into small chutes and you come around a bend and there is a 6 footer with no way around.



Exactly. MRG has more than it's fair share of tight & steep spots.


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## Domeskier (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm a little scared about riding the lift all by myself.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 7, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> I'm a little scared about riding the lift all by myself.



Boarding that chair for the first time the other day, was the only time I'd ever had to "think" about getting on a chair in a few decades.  I didn't even know about the little safety bar thing that you pull across that also attaches to the foot rest.


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## marcski (Apr 7, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Boarding that chair for the first time the other day, was the only time I'd ever had to "think" about getting on a chair in a few decades.  I didn't even know about the little safety bar thing that you pull across that also attaches to the foot rest.



The original chair had a hook up the pole to hang your poles from while going uphill.  Now that was riding in style!


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## crank (Apr 7, 2015)

I snowboard as well as ski and all I have to say is that when I am skiing at Alta and MRG I do not miss the boarders. I am not nearly good enough of a boarder to handle moguls and also have no desire to deal with ALTA: Another Long Traverse Again on a board.

Back in there were a fair amount of double chairs with a center pole and individual safety bar/foot rest thingy like MRG's single.  On cold days they used to toss you a wool blanket for the ride up both at MRG and at Stowe.  (yeah I am getting old and have been skiing a long time)


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## selski (Apr 7, 2015)

Old Duderino said:


> Well I guess this shows my ignorance of MRG, I used the think the "ski it if you can" slogan was taken literally, as in we're so old school we don't even make snow here so we may not be open, rather than a challenge to a skiers ability to ski it.


I believe you are correct, it was originally about getting after it while it was open


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## boston_e (Apr 7, 2015)

Edd said:


> 100%. The entire thought process is baffling. Snowboarders ruin bumps?  OK, I guess, but so do crappy bump skiers, of which I am one. So what are we really talking about? It seems like complete nonsense.



Yeah none of the arguments for banning snowboarding hold any water at all.  Totally stupid.

Being primarily a skier now, I personally don't really care that they do... but at the same time, I'm unlikely to go as I'm not ditching a snowboarding friend or family member.  I personally didn't find that the terrain is any different from a multitude of other Vermont resorts, so why ditch a friend?

Granted, I've only been to MRG a few times (and not at all in the past 10 years), so maybe I didn't go to the right places to find the unique terrain and more perfectly formed moguls, but lets face it, MRG is in the same mountain range as other resorts so how different is it really going to be?


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## deadheadskier (Apr 7, 2015)

What I'd like to know is were the moguls completely awful from 1986-1992 when snowboarders were allowed?  Was it really that terrible having boarders there?

As great as the bumps are at MRG, they are just as good next door at Sugarbush North.  Lincoln Peak you get some crappy ones on trails like Steins and Ripcord, but I'd say low level skiers and frequent grooming are equal to blame as snowboarders.  Steins is the perfect example for that.  Almost always GS push pile bumps because it gets groomed.  Next trail over the Mall hardly ever gets groomed and usually has perfect bumps.


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## crank (Apr 7, 2015)

Always thought the bump config on Stein's had something to do with the double fall line.


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 7, 2015)

As far as bumps go, the only thing MRG has going for it is the quantity.  The quality thing - I don't buy it.  I don't find the bumps there to be "better" than other places.  Personally, I think the best bumps are found at Killington, and there several other places that are at least on par or better than MRG.  The one thing I WILL credit MRG for is the lack of crappy bumps.  I can't recall a time that I've seen a run full of lousy GS bumps there.  I think that the higher caliber of skier there is to be credited.  To continue the derailment of this thread, I'm sure that if snowboarders were ever allowed, it would be the good snowboarders that would show up, and they wouldn't hurt the bumps...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 7, 2015)

crank said:


> Always thought the bump config on Stein's had something to do with the double fall line.



My theory is that every gaper and his brother who go to SB feel compelled to ski what many feel is the signature run - and ruin it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SnowRock (Apr 7, 2015)

MRG is the one mountain with a ban that as a boarder I'd like to ride. While I am sure Alta and DV have their merits, I feel like there is plenty similar to chose from right there, where out here in the east MRG seems to be a bit unique in terms of trails and terrain. I'd even pinkie swear not to ruin the bumps.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 8, 2015)

billski said:


> Can any other resort be have lifts any closer to the lodge?


The answer is yes.Tough to beat Cannon's Detach 30 feet from the deck and the tram inside the lodge.


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## dlague (Apr 8, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> The answer is yes.Tough to beat Cannon's Detach 30 feet from the deck and the tram inside the lodge.



Very True - no hill to climb, no long walks - just right there!  Tramside even better since the parking lot is flat all the way to the building and the tram.  If you do not need amenities then booting up outside and hopping on Zoomer is even pretty easy!


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## Puck it (Apr 8, 2015)

dlague said:


> If you do not need amenities then booting up outside and hopping on Zoomer is even pretty easy!


And a season pass


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## ThinkSnow (Apr 8, 2015)

SnowRock said:


> MRG is the one mountain with a ban that as a boarder I'd like to ride. While I am sure Alta and DV have their merits, I feel like there is plenty similar to chose from right there, where out here in the east MRG seems to be a bit unique in terms of trails and terrain. I'd even pinkie swear not to ruin the bumps.



If you really want to ride MRG, the Long Trail runs right across the ridge line.  All you have to do is hike up.  What's the worst that could happen?


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## benski (Apr 8, 2015)

ThinkSnow said:


> If you really want to ride MRG, the Long Trail runs right across the ridge line.  All you have to do is hike up.  What's the worst that could happen?



You can hike from mt Ellen along the ridge to the single chair. It's mostly downhill. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## dlague (Apr 8, 2015)

ThinkSnow said:


> If you really want to ride MRG, the Long Trail runs right across the ridge line.  All you have to do is hike up.  What's the worst that could happen?



Just have a friend in the parking lot so you can get the hell out quickly before the skiers there attack!


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## AdironRider (Apr 8, 2015)

I did the hike down from Mt. Ellen once. 

Really classy clientele over there at MRG let me tell you. One guy threatened to give me a **** punt in front of his maybe 8 year old daughter. 

It was maybe equivalent to some trees I've skied at Loveland but I was kinda let down otherwise. Definitely not as rowdy as their rep preceded.


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## Edd (Apr 8, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Really classy clientele over there at MRG let me tell you. One guy threatened to give me a **** punt in front of his maybe 8 year old daughter.



So, this was because you were on a board, just to be clear?  If he threatened that before the sorority letter, the man was ahead of his time.


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## Old Duderino (Apr 8, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> I did the hike down from Mt. Ellen once.
> 
> Really classy clientele over there at MRG let me tell you. One guy threatened to give me a **** punt in front of his maybe 8 year old daughter.
> 
> It was maybe equivalent to some trees I've skied at Loveland but I was kinda let down otherwise. Definitely not as rowdy as their rep preceded.



I would have just smiled at the guy and said, "MRG, poach it if you can".


----------



## Breakout12 (Apr 8, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> The reasons people think MRG is intimidating:
> - Most major areas have a significant flat near the bottom to catch one's breath.  MRG does not.
> - Without snowmaking on most of the hill, it can be sketchy if there has been a "snow drought"
> - They groom, but they groom a lower percentage of the mountain than most areas groom
> ...



OMG! That is hilarious. It's almost sublime!


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 8, 2015)

ThinkSnow said:


> If you really want to ride MRG, the Long Trail runs right across the ridge line.  All you have to do is hike up.  What's the worst that could happen?



Lol get a group of 50 or so boarders to do it on a pow day and be sure to have some cameras to capture the fun. The mountain is great but that anti attitude really sucks.


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## benski (Apr 8, 2015)

Found 6 boarders poaching mad river on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDYHDOU5hQ


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## KevinF (Apr 9, 2015)

benski said:


> Found 6 boarders poaching mad river on youtube.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDYHDOU5hQ



How many times did those guys hike up?  They obviously did at least two or laps.  That's an impressive workout.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> *I did the hike down from Mt. Ellen once.....**It was maybe equivalent to some trees I've skied at Loveland but I was kinda let down* otherwise.* Definitely not as rowdy as their rep*



Not sure how it's possible to (even remotely) make that determination in one random run down one finite little bit of a mountain.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 9, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Not sure how it's possible to (even remotely) make that determination in one random run down one finite little bit of a mountain.


He badly wants to believe it so he doesn't feel that he's missing out on anything.  ;-)


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## AdironRider (Apr 9, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Not sure how it's possible to (even remotely) make that determination in one random run down one finite little bit of a mountain.



So there are magically 10x better lines at MRG compared to stuff you can find at other EC hills? Doubtful. 

My overall point is just like the OP's vid, its not some expert only if you dare type place. Tramline at Cannon or Kinsman is probably much rowdier than most of MRG's terrain.


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## AdironRider (Apr 9, 2015)

Edd said:


> So, this was because you were on a board, just to be clear?  If he threatened that before the sorority letter, the man was ahead of his time.



Yes I poached it. This was back around 2006 or so. 



Old Duderino said:


> I would have just smiled at the guy and said, "MRG, poach it if you can".



Something along those lines, but I probably flubbed the delivery as I was pretty taken aback given the under 10 kids he was with.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> So there are magically 10x better lines at MRG compared to stuff you can find at other EC hills? Doubtful.
> 
> My overall point is just like the OP's vid, its not some expert only if you dare type place. Tramline at Cannon or Kinsman is probably much rowdier than most of MRG's terrain.


You'll never know.  ;-)

But, kidding aside, there is definitely a special vibe with MRG.  Can you find equally challenging terrain elsewhere?  Yes.  But can you find an the same overall experience in the east?  That's doubtful.

I think it's silly that they won't allow snowboarders.  But I also think that snowboarders can be plenty happy without MRG.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2015)

Kinsman is pretty tame compared to a lot at MRG.  As a general rule the lines are tighter and steeper at MRG.

Tramline doesn't really have comparable terrain at MRG.

There's plenty of places in the east with stuff as challenging as MRG, but no where that has as high a percentage of such terrain.


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## xwhaler (Apr 9, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Kinsman is pretty tame compared to a lot at MRG.  As a general rule the lines are tighter and steeper at MRG.
> 
> Tramline doesn't really have comparable terrain at MRG.
> 
> There's plenty of places in the east with stuff as challenging as MRG, but no where that has as high a percentage of such terrain.



Agreed.   Go off map at MRG and u can find yourself on some super challenging terrain.  Assuming you ski the ungroomed at MRG there is no let up, no bail out, and your legs get trashed much quicker than other mtns.


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## AdironRider (Apr 9, 2015)

Edd said:


> So, this was because you were on a board, just to be clear?  If he threatened that before the sorority letter, the man was ahead of his time.





xwhaler said:


> Agreed.   Go off map at MRG and u can find yourself on some super challenging terrain.  Assuming you ski the ungroomed at MRG there is no let up, no bail out, and your legs get trashed much quicker than other mtns.



This can be said for any mountain pretty much anywhere. 

Oh off the map their is some amazing stuff. No shit, its a mountain, with snow on it. You are pretty much guaranteed to be correct anywhere (well lets exclude Bretton Woods cause that place is flat as a pancake). 

The only difference is you don't have a bunch of losers giving you reach arounds and preaching vibe. Again the vibe there IME, is grizzly old telemarkers calling people ****s in front of children. To each their own.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> This can be said for any mountain pretty much anywhere. .


Then it sounds like you should have no problems being excluded.   



.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> This can be said for any mountain pretty much anywhere.
> 
> Oh off the map their is some amazing stuff. No shit, its a mountain, with snow on it. You are pretty much guaranteed to be correct anywhere (well lets exclude Bretton Woods cause that place is flat as a pancake).
> 
> The only difference is you don't have a bunch of losers giving you reach arounds and preaching vibe. Again the vibe there IME, is grizzly old telemarkers calling people ****s in front of children. To each their own.



The grizzly old telemarkers isn't the point and for the record it sounds like if anyone could use a reach around it's you.  Sheesh

The point is you made a determination of what the terrain is like there based off one run.  That's just a foolish statement.  The fact is that anyone who has spent significant time skiing around the Northeast and at MRG knows it's reputation as the most humbling mountain in the east is warranted.  Yes they groom a few things, but it's not typically very compelling terrain to take a break from the challenging stuff.  At Cannon I might take a run down Ravine to chill for a run or at Sugarbush maybe I take a spin down Jester.   MRG that doesn't happen.  Every time I have skied there I leave picking bark out of my teeth and feeling like I went 15 rounds.  

Is MRG your beloved Jackson Hole ? No and nowhere is in the east to test your apparently ungodly skills on a snowboard.  It is however worthy of its reputation.  

I wish you could ride it to see for yourself. As mentioned prior I think the co-op members are dicks for maintaining their position.


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## AdironRider (Apr 9, 2015)

So considering MRG is putting out a video stating they aren't a fall you die hill, I find it amusing you are all rushing to defend that honor. It was the whole point of the thread. 

Im not basing this on living here in Jackson, I obviously made that choice for a reason, but to surmise that MRG is magically better than every other mountain on the East Coast is laughable, especially if you have to resort to "oh well off the map". Sure I totally believe you because that exists everywhere. 

These threads sure are predictable. We just need DMC equating it to bigotry and we have checked all the boxes!


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> So considering MRG is putting out a video stating they aren't a fall you die hill, I find it amusing you are all rushing to defend that honor. It was the whole point of the thread.
> 
> Im not basing this on living here in Jackson, I obviously made that choice for a reason, but to surmise that MRG is magically better than every other mountain on the East Coast is laughable, especially if you have to resort to "oh well off the map". Sure I totally believe you because that exists everywhere.
> 
> These threads sure are predictable. We just need DMC equating it to bigotry and we have checked all the boxes!



well, your contributions have certainly been predictable that's for sure.


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 9, 2015)

MRG is lame and it's terrain is well suited for sissies.  

Nothing to see here.  Carry on...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xwhaler (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> This can be said for any mountain pretty much anywhere.
> 
> Oh off the map their is some amazing stuff. No shit, its a mountain, with snow on it. You are pretty much guaranteed to be correct anywhere (well lets exclude Bretton Woods cause that place is flat as a pancake).
> 
> The only difference is you don't have a bunch of losers giving you reach arounds and preaching vibe. Again the vibe there IME, is grizzly old telemarkers calling people ****s in front of children. To each their own.



I've sampled the off map at the majority of the mtns in my signature and I can say with confidence that off map at MRG is a step above other areas.  Keep in mind when I say off map, I mean accessed from the main trails/glades.....not hiking or ever taking off the skis.
It may not be Corbets pee your pants crazy but as far as EC goes there is stuff at MRG that is no joke.


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## Brad J (Apr 9, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> So there are magically 10x better lines at MRG compared to stuff you can find at other EC hills? Doubtful.
> 
> My overall point is just like the OP's vid, its not some expert only if you dare type place. Tramline at Cannon or Kinsman is probably much rowdier than most of MRG's terrain.



I am confused , Have you skied at Mad River more than one run? , I think if you spent some time there you would walk away with a much different attitude. I spent 10 years going there in the mid 80'5 to mid 90's and went back after 18 years this year for 1 day and I can say IMHO that its a special place. Please give it a try over a period of days then tell us how the area felt to you.


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## Scruffy (Apr 9, 2015)

The thing to note here, is that the concept of "off map lines" at MRG has been commonplace for years. Unlike other EC ski areas, MRG has had an open woods policy for as long as I can remember. It's only recently that other areas have opened up their woods. So, when you talk about the more challenging terrain at MRG, you need need to take into consideration that the off map stuff is not some secret stash stuff, but the everyday lines skied there by everyone who as spent any time there.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2015)

When did Paradise officially go on the map?  Mid 90s?  I distinctly remember an article in either a ski magazine, NY Times, some publication in the early 90s about the shush shush hush hush, Paradise at MRG when it wasn't on the map.  It was billed as this mythical expert terrain that put everything else in the east to shame.  When you read the article you thought the "waterfall" entering it was a 15 foot mandatory air.  

At the time I was an Okemo skier except for 5-6 days a year at Killington.  I had never skied north of there in VT until I moved to Stowe in the fall of 95.  Me and my buddies would try and ski off map trees at Okemo, but would end up just bush whacking much of the time.  For the most part, glade skiing were cut trails only.   It was a real eye opener moving to Stowe and being able to ski pretty much anywhere.  Skied MRG for the first time that winter too.  Kicked the crap out of me.  Still does.  Plenty of drops on that mountain I simply will not do.


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## manhattanskier (Apr 10, 2015)

MRG has unique lines that you can not find anywhere else because there are only skiers. The moguls are super tight and lots of fun, that is why I think this one place should be skiers only. Anyone who thinks they can tell if a person is going to be a dick because they snowboard needs to take a serious look at their life.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## skiur (Apr 10, 2015)

Brad J said:


> I am confused , Have you skied at Mad River more than one run? , I think if you spent some time there you would walk away with a much different attitude. I spent 10 years going there in the mid 80'5 to mid 90's and went back after 18 years this year for 1 day and I can say IMHO that its a special place. Please give it a try over a period of days then tell us how the area felt to you.




How can he when he boards?  They are assholes at MRG and dont allow boarders.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

manhattanskier said:


> MRG has unique lines that you can not find anywhere else because there are only skiers. The moguls are super tight and lots of fun, that is why I think this one place should be skiers only.



I'm still waiting to hear how much worse the skiing was there from 86-92 when they allowed snowboarders.  I've never heard anyone talk of that.  The only reason I'm told snowboarders were kicked out was because of a personal spat between Betsy and a few of them.  

The moguls are no tighter/better at MRG than they are at Sugarbush.  Fact.  The founder of mogulskiing.net would attest to that.


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## twinplanx (Apr 10, 2015)

MRG are not the "assholes" in this equation...
 Not to say ALL knuckle dragers are dicks. Just the ones who think the Glen should bow to there desire.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

We'll have to disagree.  I think if you don't want to share the slopes with snowboarders, you're a dick.  They are after the same experience skiers are.


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## twinplanx (Apr 10, 2015)

There are plenty of other places to do that. If there was a snowboard only area, I wouldn't berate them. I'd strap one on ;-) If you can't beat'em, join'em.


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## marcski (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> We'll have to disagree.  I think if you don't want to share the slopes with snowboarders, you're a dick.  They are after the same experience skiers are.


I guess I'm a dick!! (I've been called worse).

I have no issue with snowboarders but I love MRG and Alta just the way they are and do not want to see them changed at all!


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

Did you ski MRG from 86 - 92?  Was it awful for you because snowboarders were allowed?


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## twinplanx (Apr 10, 2015)

Can't say. Didn't ski there those years. WHY is this an issue?


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

Because I disagree with snowboard bans wherever they happen to be.  Did Taos implode when they started allowing snowboarders five years ago?  Of course not.

I have a fundamental issue with a place and people that for some reason wish to restrict that large of a population of people in our sport.  Skiers and Snowboarders should be viewed as one in the same by everyone.  Snowboarders do so because they find it more fun than skiing.  Let them ride then.  

MRG is a classic for it's terrain and facilities, not because it's skier only.  

I haven't riden a board in almost 20 years and have no desire to.  Most of my skiers are friends.  That said, I think allowing snowboarders at MRG is the right thing to do and whenever it comes up, I'll state that opinion.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Most of my skiers are friends.


I only ski with friends.  :smile:


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 10, 2015)

I skied MRG a few times in the late 80's in high school.  I don't recall thinking "hmm...  the moguls here suck".   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ThinkSnow (Apr 10, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> If there was a snowboard only area, I wouldn't berate them. I'd strap one on ;-) If you can't beat'em, join'em.



+1


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## ThinkSnow (Apr 10, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> These threads sure are predictable.



Um, just figuring this out?


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## Scruffy (Apr 10, 2015)

Originally Posted by *AdironRider* 

 
 				 These threads sure are predictable.





ThinkSnow said:


> Um, just figuring this out?



Naw, he's just taking his usual crap in this forum. He sits fat, dumb, and happy in Jackson, skiing 100+ days a year, and yet he feels compelled to drop in and drop a turd on us poor east coasters every now and a gain. Guess he has no one to talk to out there about riding the gnar. :lol:


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## Scruffy (Apr 10, 2015)

A lot of skiers like to blame a lot of things for ruining their moguls ( boarders, tele skiers, beginners, mommy nature and her freeze thaw cycles,...) just means they can't, or are too fussy to, ski whatever is in front of them.

The really good skiers at MRG, the local faithful, the one's everyone else is in awe of, work on skiing that mountain in whatever condition it presents itself. They relish the challenge of the variety of conditions, they don't back down from a crappy day.


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## dlague (Apr 10, 2015)

Well the last couple pages of posts were interesting!  I have not skied MRG yet and honestly I do not feel like I am missing out on anything.  While I think there are interesting lines that I would love to try based on discussions here and videos on youtube, I do find plenty to ski most anywhere outside of MRG.  Then again, I do not need to be super challenged everywhere I go.  Plain and simple, I just love being out there.  I do not have any interests in bushwhacking, launching off cliffs, tight huge bumps, etc.  If I have to stop in the woods to figure out where I need to go next - then I am not having fun.    I do like skiing glades, catching air where landings are preditable, and spaced out bumps and steeps.   Do I want to ski MRG - yes - but not a must for me.

I think the OP was posting that video to discuss how MRG is trying to market to the inferior skiers rather than the chest pounding - I can do this crowd.  Or.... were they trying to poke fun like Cannon has done recently with their videos.

BTW - this day and age I do think snowboarders should be allowed - there are boarders that can shred it better than most skiers.  We have all seen the side slipping skier or someone snowplowing down a steep.  Shit happens!


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## gmcunni (Apr 10, 2015)

i don't walk into an Italian restaurant and demand they serve me French food.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

Bad analogy.  The skier and the snowboarder want the same kind of food.   The fact that it's 2015 and people STILL consider the two activities so different is bothersome to me.


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## gmcunni (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Bad analogy.  The skier and the snowboarder want the same kind of food.   The fact that it's 2015 and people STILL consider the two activities so different is bothersome to me.




i disagree with you on the analogy.. .skiing is on the menu, snowboarding is not.

i agree with the 2nd part tho


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## VTKilarney (Apr 10, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i disagree with you on the analogy.. .skiing is on the menu, snowboarding is not.
> 
> i agree with the 2nd part tho


The product is a mountain with snow on it and lifts to get you to the top.  Snowboarder like that "dish"
 just as much as skiers.


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## gmcunni (Apr 10, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> The product is a mountain with snow on it and lifts to get you to the top.  Snowboarder like that "dish"
> just as much as skiers.



that is certainly a valid opinion, one not shared by MRG's mgt.  they see skiing and riding as two different activities

certainly "food" is common between Italian and french restaurants yet what they offer is very different.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 10, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> that is certainly a valid opinion, one not shared by MRG's mgt.  they see skiing and riding as two different activities


Is that the case or do they see the _personality_ of the rider as being different and exclude based on that?  I honestly don't know.

To be frank, it's not something that I get wound up about.  While I don't see the merit in the policy, it's not as if snowboarders don't have plenty of other excellent options.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i disagree with you on the analogy.. .skiing is on the menu, snowboarding is not.
> 
> i agree with the 2nd part tho



No.

The snow, the lifts, lodges, every single ingredient is the same.  The menu is the same.

An appropriate analogy would be the restaurant only allows you to use a fork to eat the food when you prefer using chopsticks.

But for six years that restaurant did allow you to use either a fork or chopsticks.  Then the owner gets in an argument with someone using chopsticks and says, no one can use chopsticks anymore.

It's the owners choice, but it's still a petty and lame decision IMO.   If two snowboarders are a jerk to me, I'll say those two are jerks.  I wouldn't cast off all boarders like she did.   Totally lame of her to do that and equally lame of the co-op members to maintain that position.


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## gmcunni (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> No.
> 
> The snow, the lifts, lodges, every single ingredient is the same.  The menu is the same.
> 
> ...



we'll have to agree to disagree then.. you see it different than i do (in terms of the "menu").  i haven't been to MRG in years, not because they don't allow snowboarders, other reasons.

i don't see a difference in the two styles of riding.  other than my daughter the person i've skied with the most this year is a snowboarder.  we ski the same trails and ride the lifts together.

life is full of choices, they've made theirs


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## nkLottery (Apr 10, 2015)

Are any of you at MRG today?  Curious to hear a live opinion on the conditions.  Wondering if it's worth the trip for tomorrow over Cannon or Wildcat?


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## Brad J (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Did you ski MRG from 86 - 92?  Was it awful for you because snowboarders were allowed?



I did ski there often in that time period and snowboarders were a non issue, also I did't realize that other guy from Jackson hole was a boarder only , I went to jackson hole this year and although a great place did not have the vibe of MRG IMHO. MRG is unique to it self with or without snowboarders. I just get a little ( a lot ) defensive of MRG  from some guy that's in Jackson hole that did one run down poaching. I was very impressed at Jackson Hole on the tram standing beside a guy with a Jackson Hole Air Force patch on his back.


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## Breakout12 (Apr 10, 2015)

With all this debate about banning boarders, what would people think about a private ski area that was 21+?


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## Domeskier (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Bad analogy.  The skier and the snowboarder want the same kind of food.



I don't get too angry when restaurants make me put on a jacket and tie.  I don't eat at those kinds of places very often, though.


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## marcski (Apr 10, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> we'll have to agree to disagree then.. you see it different than i do (in terms of the "menu").  i haven't been to MRG in years, not because they don't allow snowboarders, other reasons.
> 
> i don't see a difference in the two styles of riding.  other than my daughter the person i've skied with the most this year is a snowboarder.  we ski the same trails and ride the lifts together.
> 
> life is full of choices, they've made theirs


+1.  Well said.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> I don't get too angry when restaurants make me put on a jacket and tie.  I don't eat at those kinds of places very often, though.



I don't view snowboards and skis as different types of attire.   Blue vs Black blazers if you ask me.


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## Cannonball (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm still waiting to hear how much worse the skiing was there from 86-92 when they allowed snowboarders.



My experience with MRG is funny in terms of those dates.  From ~85-92 MRG was one of my go-to mountains as a skier.  I always loved the terrain and stripped-down style there. That included awesome bump runs that kicked my butt.  93-94 I spent in CO.  In 95 I started snowboarding and haven't been back to MRG since. I can't compare the pre/post-ban and its impact on bumps since I haven't experienced the post-ban conditions.  I can say that as much as I loved skiing MRG honestly haven't missed it for a second in the past 20 years.  New England has so much awesome and diverse terrain that it's easy to find whatever you are looking for. Cannon, Wildcat, Sugarbush, Stowe, Magic, Burke, Smuggs, etc. all have more than enough amazing terrain comparable to MRG's.

Getting back to the original point of this thread. That is a nice marketing piece and hopefully it dispels some of the fear factor that people feel about MRG.  But I find it laughable for anyone to pretend that "Ski it if you can" was ever meant to mean anything other than a challenge and a badge of honor.  Trying to spin that into something else now is silly.  If MRG prides itself in being so 'true' and 'pure' then they should be true and pure about what their motto has always meant.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 10, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> I can say that as much as I loved skiing MRG honestly haven't missed it for a second in the past 20 years.  New England has so much awesome and diverse terrain that it's easy to find whatever you are looking for. Cannon, Wildcat, Sugarbush, Stowe, Magic, Burke, Smuggs, etc. all have more than enough amazing terrain comparable to MRG's.


Well said.  MRG is silly for banning snowboarders.  Snowboarders are silly for thinking that it's a huge deal.


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## Domeskier (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I don't view snowboards and skis as different types of attire.   Blue vs Black blazers if you ask me.



My guess is that a lot of the shareholders at MRG do view them as different types of attire.  Just like some diners at some restaurants don't like to eat surrounded by people in blue jeans and tee-shirts, some shareholders at MRG don't like to ski surrounded by people on snowboards.  I think it ultimately boils down to an aesthetic preference, so trying to persuade certain shareholders at MRG that boards can ride the single chair and don't ruin moguls will be no more successful than convincing the maître d' at some expensive restaurant that I can observe proper dining etiquette while wearing my MRG - Ski it if You Can tee-shirt.


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## Edd (Apr 10, 2015)

nkLottery said:


> Are any of you at MRG today?  Curious to hear a live opinion on the conditions.  Wondering if it's worth the trip for tomorrow over Cannon or Wildcat?



As of yesterday, Wildcat was in pretty fantastic shape. Everything was in play. Can't speak for the other two places.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> My guess is that a lot of the shareholders at MRG do view them as different types of attire.  Just like some diners at some restaurants don't like to eat surrounded by people in blue jeans and tee-shirts, some shareholders at MRG don't like to ski surrounded by people on snowboards.



If they were all still stuck in 1986 on  205 Olin Mark IV, yellow Langes and CB jackets, I'd have a little respect for that.

As they ski off in their 125mms waisted Rockered skis and A/T K2 boots?  Not so much.

And this premise again ignores why snowboarders aren't allowed.  It's because Betsy got in an argument with some boarders.

For six years boarders apparently were there in harmony with skiers.

The whole concept that the ban remains to somehow preserve the "classic old school character" of the place is a complete load of crap.  


But if people want to continue to believe that BS, they're free to go right ahead and do so.  It's not a view I'll ever respect just like my view is likely not respected by them.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 10, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> *MRG are not the "assholes" in this equation...*
> Not to say ALL knuckle dragers are dicks. J*ust the ones who think the Glen should bow to there desire*.



Precisely.  It's a private entity.  Get over it.




deadheadskier said:


> Skiers and Snowboarders should be viewed as one in the same by everyone.



*What do we want?*

_CROSS COUNTRY SNOWBOARDING IN THE OLYMPICS!!!!_

*When do we want it?*

_NOW!_



twinplanx said:


> *WHY is this an issue?*



It's not; it's a terribly flawed conjecture. Completely ignores or simply forgets obvious historical data on skier/rider numbers. 

Snowboarding probably represented something like 0.8% of skier/rider visits in 1986 and maybe (being generous here) 5% or 7% or so total visits in 1990.  Immaterial.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2015)

So you would have had a problem sharing the slopes at MRG with a snowboarder?


----------



## dlague (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Bad analogy.  The skier and the snowboarder want the same kind of food.   The fact that it's 2015 and people STILL consider the two activities so different is bothersome to me.



+1



Cannonball said:


> My experience with MRG is funny in terms of those dates.  From ~85-92 MRG was one of my go-to mountains as a skier.  I always loved the terrain and stripped-down style there. That included awesome bump runs that kicked my butt.  93-94 I spent in CO.  In 95 I started snowboarding and haven't been back to MRG since. I can't compare the pre/post-ban and its impact on bumps since I haven't experienced the post-ban conditions.  I can say that as much as I loved skiing MRG honestly haven't missed it for a second in the past 20 years.  New England has so much awesome and diverse terrain that it's easy to find whatever you are looking for. Cannon, Wildcat, Sugarbush, Stowe, Magic, Burke, Smuggs, etc. all have more than enough amazing terrain comparable to MRG's.
> 
> Getting back to the original point of this thread. That is a nice marketing piece and hopefully it dispels some of the fear factor that people feel about MRG.  But I find it laughable for anyone to pretend that "Ski it if you can" was ever meant to mean anything other than a challenge and a badge of honor.  Trying to spin that into something else now is silly.  If MRG prides itself in being so 'true' and 'pure' then they should be true and pure about what their motto has always meant.



another +1



Edd said:


> As of yesterday, Wildcat was in pretty fantastic shape. Everything was in play. Can't speak for the other two places.



As of yesterday, Cannon was in pretty fantastic shape. Everything was in play.   


However, it rained pretty hard in Central VT.  It rained some in Northern NH.


----------



## dlague (Apr 10, 2015)

Just a thought - I bet if they opened MRG to snowboarders they would not need the stupid video and would increase revenues by a lot!  They will wait until times get really tough!


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 10, 2015)

Unless MRG is willing to add uphill capacity (and I don't think they are), I'm of the impression that they are pretty close to capacity on skier visits, at least on weekends and holidays.


----------



## HowieT2 (Apr 10, 2015)

nkLottery said:


> Are any of you at MRG today?  Curious to hear a live opinion on the conditions.  Wondering if it's worth the trip for tomorrow over Cannon or Wildcat?



Im in town but not sking.  It's raining and windy.


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> When did Paradise officially go on the map?  Mid 90s?  I distinctly remember an article in either a ski magazine, NY Times, some publication in the early 90s about the shush shush hush hush, Paradise at MRG when it wasn't on the map.  It was billed as this mythical expert terrain that put everything else in the east to shame.  When you read the article you thought the "waterfall" entering it was a 15 foot mandatory air.



Lol I remember that article too! I was pleasantly surprised when I finally made it there. I expected balls to the wall skiing all day and it wasn't like that..   unless you wanted it to be.


----------



## boston_e (Apr 10, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> But I find it laughable for anyone to pretend that "Ski it if you can" was ever meant to mean anything other than a challenge and a badge of honor.  Trying to spin that into something else now is silly.



This is true I think… at least thats how it has been received over time.

I remember the first time I went there I expected to find some totally different level of challenge.  Once I got there I figured out they have stuff that is a lot like what a lot of other New England ski areas have.  Perhaps it is true that the ratio of "hard" stuff to "easy" stuff is higher at MRG than elsewhere, I'm not sure.  I have not been there enough to say… and haven't been in years.

Regarding what someone else mentioned, I'd be surprised if they are not near lift capacity on weekends and holidays.  What do they have there?  4 chairlifts and one is the single?


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 10, 2015)

boston_e said:


> Regarding what someone else mentioned, I'd be surprised if they are not near lift capacity on weekends and holidays.  What do they have there?  4 chairlifts and one is the single?



If they are at lift capacity and don't care about profits (as some have suggested) why advertise at all? Why put any cost/effort into anything that promotes the product?  Are they wasting their advertising dollars or are they actually not at capacity? You can't have both.


----------



## boston_e (Apr 10, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> If they are at lift capacity and don't care about profits (as some have suggested) why advertise at all? Why put any cost/effort into anything that promotes the product?  Are they wasting their advertising dollars or are they actually not at capacity? You can't have both.



Well, you always need new customers, as you always lose existing customers because of one reason or another.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 10, 2015)

boston_e said:


> Well, you always need new customers, as you always lose existing customers because of one reason or another.



Agreed. So the argument that they don't need snowboarders because they already have enough customers doesn't really make sense then.  That case has been made a few times (not by you).


----------



## skiur (Apr 10, 2015)

Send the boarders to the back of the bus!!


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 10, 2015)

skiur said:


> Send the boarders to the back of the bus!!



Relax Rosa


----------



## marcski (Apr 11, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> Relax Rosa


Shouldn't that be:  "Lighten up, Francis?"


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 11, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> *So* *you would have had a problem sharing the slopes at MRG with a snowboarder?*



Right now?   

Yes.

If the rightful owners of MRG decided by their own free will to change the niche of the mountain and allow snowboarders?

  No.



joshua segal said:


> Unless MRG is willing to add uphill capacity (and I don't think they are),* I'm of the impression that they are pretty close to capacity on skier visits, at least on weekends and holidays*.



Havent been there on a weekend, but if what I read on this board is true, you might have a good point.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2015)

Well, last I checked, disagreeing with a policy of a particular business isn't a crime.  

They're free to run their business as they want.  I'm free to comment on it.  Isn't that what we do with every ski area here?

I just can't wrap my mind around ANYONE looking at another person with a snowboard on their feet and saying, "get that snowboard out of here.  Skis only!".   Only an asshole......


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 11, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Well, last I checked, disagreeing with a policy of a particular business isn't a crime.
> 
> They're free to run their business as they want.  I'm free to comment on it.  Isn't that what we do with every ski area here?
> 
> I just can't wrap my mind around ANYONE looking at another person with a snowboard on their feet and saying, "get that snowboard out of here.  Skis only!".   Only an asshole......



You shouldn't take personal offense to "No snowboarders" rules . Do you know the reason the rule is in place?
It may have nothing to do with the person on the board but what the rule maker percieves the board does to a slope.

An old Molehill where I've skied for years has changed since borading, moguls never have a chance to develop ,
2 slopes had decent fields years ago , not anymore. 

I have had a few run ins with boarders over the years but equal amounts with skiers.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 11, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Do you know the reason the rule is in place?



Yes



Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> It may have nothing to do with the person on the board but what the rule maker percieves the board does to a slope.



No, that's not it.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Do you know the reason the rule is in place?



Yes.  Mentioned it several times in this thread.

The old owner had a spat with a couple of snowboarders.

The rule has nothing to do with staying "old school" or providing better moguls.  

No matter the origin of it though, it's a lame rule.


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 11, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> It may have nothing to do with the person on the board but what the rule maker percieves the board does to a slope.
> 
> An old Molehill where I've skied for years has changed since borading, moguls never have a chance to develop ,
> 2 slopes had decent fields years ago , not anymore.



Im a skier and no way am I buying that. Plenty of areas that allow boarders have good moguls. I think the average quality of the skiers/riders have more to do with good or bad moguls more than anything else.


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 11, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Well, last I checked, disagreeing with a policy of a particular business isn't a crime.
> 
> They're free to run their business as they want.  I'm free to comment on it.  Isn't that what we do with every ski area here?
> 
> I just can't wrap my mind around ANYONE looking at another person with a snowboard on their feet and saying, "get that snowboard out of here.  Skis only!".   Only an asshole......


Guess I'm an "asshole" then. Maybe at one point it had something to do with Betsy's run in with a couple of tools. But IMO, at this point it's about "retaining the unique culture" of this particular area owned & maintained by SHAREHOLDERS.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2015)

How could what someone else has on their feet remotely affect your own personal enjoyment?

I could care less what anyone else on the hill is doing.  It has no bearing on my experience whatsoever.

As has been mentioned in this thread snowboarders did nothing to change the character of the place when they were allowed there.


----------



## Edd (Apr 11, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> But IMO, at this point it's about "retaining the unique culture" of this particular area owned & maintained by SHAREHOLDERS.



I think everyone understands that it's their right to run the mountain as they see fit. It's simply that their reasoning is BS, and it's obvious. The "culture" of skiing and riding is pretty tough to separate at this point.


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 11, 2015)

jrmagic said:


> Im a skier and no way am I buying that. Plenty of areas that allow boarders have good moguls. I think the average quality of the skiers/riders have more to do with good or bad moguls more than anything else.



Seeded or natural ? Seeding makes a difference .
The place I was referring to is primarily a beginner area
so I agree with that .


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 11, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> As has been mentioned in this thread snowboarders did nothing to change the character of the place when they were allowed there.



Yes, mentioned; several times, by you.

  Doesn't make any empirical sense in relation to the point you were trying to make.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yes, mentioned; several times, by you.
> 
> Doesn't make any empirical sense in relation to the point you were trying to make.



Wrong.  Mentioned by Brad J, Cannonball and Savemeasammy; people who were skiing there when snowboarders were allowed.

I did not mention it, I asked the question because I wanted to hear about first hand experiences.


----------



## Domeskier (Apr 11, 2015)

L





deadheadskier said:


> Wrong.  Mentioned by Brad J, Cannonball and Savemeasammy; people who were skiing there when snowboarders were allowed.
> 
> I did not mention it, I asked the question because I wanted to hear about first hand experiences.



To be fair, boarders represented a much much smaller percentage of the snow sliding population at that time.  It makes sense that they would not have had a great impact on the terrain.  That being said, if MRG is really concerned about mogul formation, they should probably ban shaped skis, fat skis and tele skis, too.


----------



## moresnow (Apr 11, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> L
> That being said, if MRG is really concerned about mogul formation, they should probably ban shaped skis, fat skis and tele skis, too.



They should also ban shitty skiers.


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 11, 2015)

moresnow said:


> They should also ban shitty skiers.



Hmmmm, Maybe Mount Bohemia skiers could comment.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 11, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> L
> 
> To be fair, boarders represented a much much smaller percentage of the snow sliding population at that time.



The participation percentage of boarders varied widely based upon the ski area in the late 80's.  I know because I was one then and we used to have to go to Magic or Stratton because snowboarders weren't allowed at Okemo where my family skied.   

There were LOTS of boarders at Stratton then.  Maybe there was at MRG too.  If there was not, it would stand to reason that the ban made even less sense back then.

I learned how to snowboard at Magic.  Most consider Magic "old school" despite snowboarders being allowed there.

I gave up snowboarding around 1990.  I like moguls and didn't like how a board handled bumps compared to skis.   I don't care how others choose to ride snow.  Live and let ride.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 12, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> *To be fair, boarders represented a much much smaller percentage of the snow sliding population at that time.  It makes sense that they would not have had a great impact on the terrain. *



Which is beyond obvious.     

And DHS now clearly realizes that given I pointed it out, but of course, rather than simply admit that, _"oh, yeah, duh, I didn't think about that, lol",_ instead he's has to double-down and come up with long-shot absurdities to cling to his busted hypothesis:



deadheadskier said:


> *The participation percentage of boarders varied widely based upon the ski area in the late 80's.*



Yeah.  Great.  So instead of 0.8% in 1986, and 3.8% in 1988 maybe at "some" places (probably not MRG) it was 1.6% and 5% or something.        Either way, again = Completely immaterial.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 12, 2015)

OK BG, what would be a consequential percentage by your standards?

I wasn't there, neither were you.  Rag on my interpretation of what people who were there said it was like, but at least that was first hand experience and not the conjecture you're bringing to the discussion.

And for Christ sake, I don't understand why you have such an issue with me being against MRG policy.  I think I've read you bitch about the no tree skiing policy at Elk.  This really isn't any different.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 12, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> OK BG, what would be a consequential percentage by your standards?



Tough to say, but I sure know it wouldn't be an environment where 95% or more of people are skiing, like the precise time period in question.



deadheadskier said:


> I think I've read you bitch about the no tree skiing policy at Elk.  This really isn't any different.



Completely different.

 I think it's bad for Elk's business due to the fact tree skiing could be a way for Elk to differentiate their business model in a favorable manner, which would be positive for revenue.  Which. Is. Exactly. What. MRG. Is. Doing.

 Anyway, expanding on Elk, I also respect Elk's right to make said decision, even though I think it's poor.   From a $$$ standpoint, I think someone else could come in and make more money owning Elk (for more reasons that just "trees"), but you're not going to see me go on an anti-Elk internet PR campaign or repeatedly trash them practically malevolently.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 12, 2015)

If you want to start talking business, you're out of your mind if you think business would decrease at MRG if they allowed boarders.

My argument boils down to this.  Take someone like Cannonball who both skis and snowboards.  Give me 3 good reasons why a MRG guest would have a better experience spending the day with Cannonball on skis compared to if he was on a board.

Honestly I can't think of one.

That's why the ban is utterly stupid


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If you want to start talking business, you're out of your mind if you think business would decrease at MRG if they allowed boarders.
> 
> My argument boils down to this.  Take someone like Cannonball who both skis and snowboards.  Give me 3 good reasons why a MRG guest would have a better experience spending the day with Cannonball on skis compared to if he was on a board.
> 
> ...



Let me take this one....there aren't 3 reasons.  There isn't even 1. Because although I fully respect their right to have the ban I won't even SKI there as long as they don't allow snowboarding. And this isn't conjecture (like most of this thread) it's the straight up reality of the past 20 years.  

Here's my view:
Running a small business in a competitive industry is extremely tough. You need to do everything you can to create your own market. for MRG they are in the difficult position of being down the street from Sugarbush, a resort that offers pretty much anything a skiing or snowboarding customer could want. MRG clearly can't compete head to head from an economic perspective of offering amenities. So they need to create a unique experience that draws in a certain demographic. That includes stripped-down amenities, cheap tickets, open eoods policy, slow lifts, limited grooming, a challenging mystique (despite the spin some people in this thread have attempted), and the snowboard ban. To me that is a smart business decision. They understand that there is a marketplace of people who desire no snowboarding around them. I have no problem with the niche MRG has identified and the business decision to market to that demographic. 

What I do have a problem with is the demographic itself!  This is the core of DHS's question above. If these people care what i put on my feet they have some issues.  And you can throw out all of the pseudo-justifications about mogul quality, challenging lift unloads, etc.  Because I am a far better snowboarder than skier. Me on skis is WAY more likely to be a terrain/lift issue than me on a board.   

Bottom line: as long as there are people who don't like snowboarders as a group, MRG is smart to market to them. And as long as those people dominate MRG's market I won't be skiing there.


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 12, 2015)

So... your cool with fruit booters?


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> So... your cool with fruit booters?



If that question is to me, I'm sorry I have no idea what it means.


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 12, 2015)

Fruit Booters = ski blades


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

Oh. Then yes. And so is MRG right?


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 12, 2015)

I don't judge the rider by what is on his/her feet. MRG as a private enterprise, is free to do so...


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> I don't judge the rider by what is on his/her feet.



Yeah, sounds like it.



twinplanx said:


> So... your cool with fruit booters?


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 12, 2015)

Fruit Booter, knuckle drager, whatever guy you don't know me. Only God can judge me.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

I guess the obvious question is....


twinplanx said:


> So... your cool with fruit booters?


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 12, 2015)

Actually, yes.  Most of them are to slow though...


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

Great, I guess we're on the same page. That was bizarre  little aside to this thread. But at least I learned a new term (can't promise I'll use it)


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 12, 2015)

twinplanx said:


> I don't judge the rider by what is on his/her feet. MRG as a private enterprise, is free to do so...



But you yourself have said you don't want to see snowboarders there.  Why?


----------



## twinplanx (Apr 12, 2015)

Because it makes the place unique.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 12, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> MRG clearly can't compete head to head from an economic perspective of offering amenities. So they need to create a unique experience that draws in a certain demographic. That includes stripped-down amenities, cheap tickets, open eoods policy, slow lifts, limited grooming, a challenging mystique, and the snowboard ban. To me that is a smart business decision.



Which is all that matters.

Though I think your (seeming?) belief that the snowboard ban is the most important item noted in your lengthy list, is off-base.  I do think it helps make them unique from the historical angle and from the mogul quality angle, but to me the snowboard ban is the least important of those items.  The old age, old school attitude with disdain for grooming, and "lost in time" feel to MRG is what I liked most about the place, and I suspect there are many if not most who feel the same way.  I look forward to going back.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 12, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Which is all that matters.
> 
> Though I think your (seeming?) belief that the snowboard ban is the most important item noted in your lengthy list, is off-base.  I so think it helps make them unique from the historical angle and from the mogul quality angle, but to me the snowboard ban is the least important of those items.  The old age, old school attitude with disdain for grooming, and "lost in time" feel to the place is what I liked most about the place, and I suspect their are many if not most who feel the same way.  I look forward to going back.



Never said it was the most important...just the one we were talking about.  And the one that's kept me from buying a ticket there for 20 years.


----------



## Smellytele (Apr 13, 2015)

Skied MRG yesterday. They should ban as many people as possible on weekends. Singles line was ski on until about 11 then the masses showed up and it went up to about 45 minutes. Skied the double which was only about a 10/15 minute wait at that point. Later around 3 the single wasn't as bad because everyone was on the deck.


----------



## dlague (Apr 13, 2015)

At a time where women are allowed at Augusta and business shut down because they refused to serve LBHS, it seems that what someone wears to slide should not make a difference either.  We are all brother and sisters of winter - can't we all just get along and share?


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 13, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Singles line was ski on until about 11 then the masses showed up and it went up to about 45 minutes. Skied the double which was only about a 10/15 minute wait at that point.



Now THAT scares me!  45min?!?!  We were complaining about the 10min wait at Cannon yesterday.


----------



## Puck it (Apr 13, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> Now THAT scares me!  45min?!?!  We were complaining about the 10min wait at Cannon yesterday.



Were they from Loon too?


----------



## crank (Apr 13, 2015)

Never ski MRG on a weekend.  Everyone knows that.


----------



## ironhippy (Apr 13, 2015)

crank said:


> Never ski MRG on a weekend.  Everyone knows that.



no one goes there on the weekend, it's too crowded?


----------



## Smellytele (Apr 13, 2015)

Like I said the double was fine. Just had to plan your day. single until 11 and after 3


----------



## jimk (Apr 13, 2015)

Long thread that clearly touched a nerve.  Didn't read the whole thing, but I think it started out as an MRG appreciation and devolved into skier vs. boarder thing.  
Bottom line on MRG:  great terrain, interesting snow, and definitely a special vibe.  I skied for over 40 years before I finally went there.  Loved it instantly and have made three visits there since.  Here is most special quality:  the patrons there respect the experience of skiing.  They are there to feel the breeze, the thigh burn, the branches tapping on your helmet.  There are just fewer distractions involving all the non-skiing crap in the world.  I think good-hearted boarders can and would contribute to that vibe.  It will come some day.


----------



## boston_e (Apr 13, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> Now THAT scares me!  45min?!?!  We were complaining about the 10min wait at Cannon yesterday.



Ski it if you can?  Meaning ski it if you can get more than 2 runs in an afternoon?


----------



## billski (Apr 13, 2015)

boston_e said:


> Ski it if you can?  Meaning ski it if you can get more than 2 runs in an afternoon?



Too funny.  One guy goes out and finds long lines, and everyone writes off the place.  LOL!   You must attract moths too.  I never have that kind of line.  I was there a week ago Saturday, never waited in a line, skied my brains out until my legs said "uncle".  Had to take a "power nap" afterwards in order to get home!

Old-school includes long lift lines.  Not just rocks, dirt, ice and grass.  Old school means slow lifts.  The single chair is intentional.  Keeps from getting too many people on the slope at once, not just because its a retro lift.  Want to see lines?  Go on a powder day. But they don't care, because each and every skier will get first tracks somewhere, everywhere.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 13, 2015)

With all the bump talk in this thread I thought MRG's FB video today was interesting.  I wouldn't call these exceptionally nicely formed bumps.  And I wouldn't call these even moderately good bump skiers.  Maybe a connection?  
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153160679965432


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 13, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> With all the bump talk in this thread *I thought MRG's FB video today was interesting.  I wouldn't call these exceptionally nicely formed bumps.*



Seriously?  

Criticizing bump structure on April 13th?  

In 64F temps?

That post was an example of trying _way_ too hard to be intentionally negative.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 13, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Criticizing bump structure on April 13th?
> 
> ...



Not trying to be negative at all. There's been a lot of random, subjective comments in this thread. This is some actual footage. Make what you want of it. 

As far as date and temps go, spring makes for some of the best bumps.  Avalanche at Cannon had killer bumps on Sunday. Wish I had taken a pic.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 13, 2015)

64F to a bump skier is like 900F for a pizza cook......perfect temp


----------



## MadPatSki (Apr 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> 64F to a bump skier is like 900F for a pizza cook......perfect temp



It was an awesome day today. One of my favorites of the season for sure


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Savemeasammy (Apr 14, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Criticizing bump structure on April 13th?
> 
> ...



Agree with Cannonball.  I counted exactly zero zipper lines in that video.  Although there ARE good bumps to be found at MRG, clearly Chute is not the place to find them right now. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skiur (Apr 14, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Criticizing bump structure on April 13th?
> 
> ...




ummm when should bumps be better than a warm april day???


----------



## jaytrem (Apr 14, 2015)

skiur said:


> ummm when should bumps be better than a warm april day???



I was at MRG yesterday, bumps were pretty much perfect from opening to closing.  Plenty of zipper lines to be found.  Chute was great, a number of people were just lapping that.  No lift lines, so I got a great workout for sure.  Got around 20 runs on the single and 6 on the double.  Heading to Sugarbush in a few minutes, I like the 10-5 schedule, lets the bumps soften earlier in the ski day.


----------



## Scruffy (Apr 14, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> With all the bump talk in this thread I thought MRG's FB video today was interesting.  I wouldn't call these exceptionally nicely formed bumps.  And I wouldn't call these even moderately good bump skiers.  Maybe a connection?
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153160679965432



Obviously showing, like their promo video that started this thread, that you do not need to be Hannah Kearney to ski there. Bumps form as they do there, no seeding, no grooming* - "Ski it if you can".  They're not bragging they are the best at anything or everything. "Ski it if you can" is left open for interpretation - like reading a good book, or poetry, you fill in the details; a brilliant piece of marketing prose, that has stood the test of time. If the slogan had been "Ski it if you think you've got the stuff", it would have been an abject failure - in fact a laughingstock. Allowing the reader to fill in what "Ski it if you can" means to them is what has built the mystique.

*Yes, I know they groom some blue and green runs, that's not the point.


----------



## Domeskier (Apr 14, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> And I wouldn't call these even moderately good bump skiers.



I think you're being too kind.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 14, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Agree with Cannonball.  I counted exactly zero zipper lines in that video.



That's not the part I was disagreeing with him about.   

 The part about criticizing bump appearance at 3:30pm on a 64 degree day was. 

  By the end of the day,  bumps get sheered off, ripped in half, and torn apart in that weather.   Fun?  Oh yes, very much.  But they're often sloppy and disheveled at that point.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 14, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's not the part I was disagreeing with him about.
> 
> The part about criticizing bump appearance at 3:30pm on a 64 degree day was.
> 
> By the end of the day,  bumps get sheered off, ripped in half, and torn apart in that weather.   Fun?  Oh yes, very much.  But they're often sloppy and disheveled at that point.



If you're trying to demonstrate massive ignorance regarding moguls, you've earned an A+

Sheared off?  Ripped in half? Torn apart?

I'm going to throw down the gauntlet and suggest you won't find 3 people in this forum that agrees with that description.  Never in my 30 + years have I seen a mogul "ripped in half" on a warm spring day.

What does happen on a 64 degree day is they typically get bigger and bigger and the troughs get deeper and deeper.  Now bigger doesn't always equal better.   That's where the phrase "swallowed up in the moguls" comes from.   

But ripped in half?  Serious lol there.


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 14, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's not the part I was disagreeing with him about.
> 
> The part about criticizing bump appearance at 3:30pm on a 64 degree day was.
> 
> By the end of the day,  bumps get sheered off, ripped in half, and torn apart in that weather.   Fun?  Oh yes, very much.  But they're often sloppy and disheveled at that point.



Killington yesterday.  Somewhere in the mid 60's to maybe 70.  


All of these bumps - and more - were there when we got there.  They got better as the day progressed, not worse.  


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If you're trying to demonstrate massive ignorance regarding moguls, you've earned an A+
> 
> Sheared off?  Ripped in half? Torn apart?



Yes, ripped in half and thrown off on extremely warm days.  Depending on the weather it could take multiple days of this warmth so that the heat has near fully penetrated the snowpack (snow reflects light, but absorbs radiant heat), and instead of a bit of a mogul's snow being removed like 99% of winter, big corn piles are instead shaved off.    

And putting the thermal science aside for a moment....... for the love of god, who on earth judges mogul quality in 64 degree temps?  They're more like piles of corn, slush, and very soft wet snow at that point.  There's a reason the FIS Freestyle mogul tour is packed with events in January and February, and over by late February or very early March, and it's not because the moguls character/quality are best in late March and April.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 14, 2015)

Never mind.  A++

Wow


you're right.  Look all of those moguls in Sammy's photo being torn right in half

((poor moguls))


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## Brad J (Apr 14, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Killington yesterday.  Somewhere in the mid 60's to maybe 70.
> View attachment 16538View attachment 16539View attachment 16540
> 
> All of these bumps - and more - were there when we got there.  They got better as the day progressed, not worse.
> ...


What trail was that first picture from? Looks like an old tee bar/ chair line??


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 14, 2015)

Powerline.  Aptly named.  


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## Brad J (Apr 14, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Powerline.  Aptly named.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Is that near North ridge? I skied there 30 years ago and do not remember it , looks nice


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 14, 2015)

Yes.  Lookers right along the nrt.  One of the better bump runs yesterday.  


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## boston_e (Apr 14, 2015)

Looks like the snowboarders really destroyed those bumps at Killington! :lol:


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## SkiFanE (Apr 14, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> If you're trying to demonstrate massive ignorance regarding moguls, you've earned an A+
> 
> Sheared off?  Ripped in half? Torn apart?
> 
> ...



I agree that moguls don't get sheered off and ripped apart by end of spring day.  But that video did show suckily organized bumps lol.  It's funny - must be something about bump runs under the lifts get all the bad skiers or something.  Because Agony at SR had "great" bumps, as individuals lol.  But I just thought the rythym of them sucked - no lines and all over the place - like the MRG vid.  But go to LockeLine/Crossbow and Shockwave and they were spectacular.  People see it from lift and must do it...whereas they just pass by all the other bump runs.  Still dreaming about Shockwave from last weekend, primo condition.


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## joshua segal (Apr 14, 2015)

Savemeasammy said:


> Powerline.  Aptly named.


It had been skied for years, but in the last year of ASC, they added it to the trail map so they could claim something new (without spending anything).  When I was there last (about a month ago) the bumps were not much fun - more shape related than condition related.


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