# Home heating systems



## skijay (Oct 1, 2008)

Winter season is approaching and I finally signed a contract for a new heating system for my home.  I wanted the most efficient set up available and bit the bullet.  I went with a Buderus system.  I was going to convert to gas and go with the tankless water heater or do a hybrid of oil for the heat and get a propane tank for the tankless water heater.  With the cost of creating that type of system and the amount of time to see a savings, I stuck with oil.

The system I went with is rated at 89% efficiency and I am going with an indirect water heater.  I am still confused on the indirect water heater and how it works.  I have to have a stainless steel "stack" dropped in my chimney for this set up.  Apparently the stack temperature is low and will cause condensation in the chimney.  This furnace also takes in fresh air from the outside.  It sounds complex, but if it will cut down my oil consumption - I am for it.  

Here is what I am getting:

http://www.buderus.net/OurProducts/OilFiredBoilers/G125BE/tabid/491/Default.aspx

Does anybody have a Buderus system - any comments?


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## Greg (Oct 1, 2008)

Who gives a crap about heating systems? All I know is that skijay is back!!! And that means ski season is on its way!


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## hardline (Oct 2, 2008)

skijay said:


> Winter season is approaching and I finally signed a contract for a new heating system for my home.  I wanted the most efficient set up available and bit the bullet.  I went with a Buderus system.  I was going to convert to gas and go with the tankless water heater or do a hybrid of oil for the heat and get a propane tank for the tankless water heater.  With the cost of creating that type of system and the amount of time to see a savings, I stuck with oil.
> 
> The system I went with is rated at 89% efficiency and I am going with an indirect water heater.  I am still confused on the indirect water heater and how it works.  I have to have a stainless steel "stack" dropped in my chimney for this set up.  Apparently the stack temperature is low and will cause condensation in the chimney.  This furnace also takes in fresh air from the outside.  It sounds complex, but if it will cut down my oil consumption - I am for it.
> 
> ...



you should really look at spray insallation. stops air leaks and make the house so much more air tight. i new homes you get more than 3 people in a room and you have to turn the air on in winter. we use it in clubs and they never use heat ever just ac year round


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## Glenn (Oct 2, 2008)

We replaced our boiler about 5 years ago. (That was fun...6 months before our wedding). We went from an older Weil/McClain to a newer Weil/McClain. The difference between the old and the new was amazing. The new unit heated the baseboards quicker and used less oil. We also went from a tankless domestic coil to an indirect fired tank. The domestic coil was terrible....showers were hot for 45 seconds, followed by a minute of lukewarm water. PITA. Then again, the boiler had been run for years of of well water...without a sediment filter. I'm sure it was plugged.


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## Marc (Oct 2, 2008)

I only know of info on Buderus second hand, but it's only positives (aside from the initial cost).  Just make sure you have someone local who can repair and service it.  That can be a deal breaker sometimes.

I have a big old Fitzgibbons oil boiler that I hope to relegate to back up duty in the next couple years with a high efficiency "gasifying" wood boiler.


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## wa-loaf (Oct 2, 2008)

New gas steam boilers (we own a 2 family) being put in this week. Nothing fancy, just solid burnhams, only 82% efficient because we have steam heat. But they'll be a big improvement over the old asbestos encased snowmen we had before. We've also done a ton of insulating in the past year as well.


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## skijay (Oct 2, 2008)

I have heard about the spray foam insulation.  I may get that done before winter for my attic.  

Anything to conserve oil!


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## ckofer (Oct 3, 2008)

skijay said:


> Winter season is approaching and I finally signed a contract for a new heating system for my home.  I wanted the most efficient set up available and bit the bullet.  I went with a Buderus system.  I was going to convert to gas and go with the tankless water heater or do a hybrid of oil for the heat and get a propane tank for the tankless water heater.  With the cost of creating that type of system and the amount of time to see a savings, I stuck with oil.
> 
> The system I went with is rated at 89% efficiency and I am going with an indirect water heater.  I am still confused on the indirect water heater and how it works.  I have to have a stainless steel "stack" dropped in my chimney for this set up.  Apparently the stack temperature is low and will cause condensation in the chimney.  This furnace also takes in fresh air from the outside.  It sounds complex, but if it will cut down my oil consumption - I am for it.
> 
> ...



It sounds like you are buying quality gear. An indirect water heater is basically a hot water tank with a radiator inside it.


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## SundayRiver Yeti (Oct 3, 2008)

Buderus is a quality company. My wife and I installed one of their boilers and it was great.


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## Beetlenut (Oct 3, 2008)

ckofer said:


> ... An indirect water heater is basically a hot water tank with a radiator inside it.


 
I believe the indirect water heater runs off it's own zone, just like a separate thermostat controlled zone in your house.


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## hardline (Oct 5, 2008)

skijay said:


> I have heard about the spray foam insulation.  I may get that done before winter for my attic.
> 
> Anything to conserve oil!



the key is to do all exerior walls. they only thing that sucks about it is if you ever have to run more cable it becomes a pain in the ass.


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## billski (Oct 6, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> I believe the indirect water heater runs off it's own zone, just like a separate thermostat controlled zone in your house.



Bingo.  We has.  Replaced a tankless hot water unit off a oil burner 12 years ago; never looked back.  Tankless could never keep up with demand.   Now, we have a 40 gallon tank, indirect and wish I had gone for 60.  We still run out.  I have 3 teenage girls and a wife.  'nuff said!


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## Charlie Schuessler (Oct 6, 2008)

Two years we replaced our 18-year old, oil burning boiler system consisting of 2-zone heat and tankless water heat with a four zone system system including programmable thermostats and indirect water heat storage tank.  Cut the annual gallons by nearly a third and a payback of less than 24-months.


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## andyzee (Oct 6, 2008)

Not sure if I'll have to heat this year, my landlord just got done putting 3 inches of foam on the house for insulation!


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## Grassi21 (Oct 6, 2008)

Just put a down pament down on this bad boy...

Jotul 450







Not a "Home heating system"  but this bad boy should go a long way in regulating the heat in our Cape style home.


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## kickstand (Oct 6, 2008)

We put in a Buderus Logano G215 a couple winters back and the thing is great.  We also have an indirect water heater.  The whole system ran about $9k, but it is worth it if not for the efficiency, but for not having to listen to the boiler turn on and off to heat the old tank.  

I think I may need to change the water tank at our place in NH to be indirect.  Same deal - always listening to it go on and off.  Plus, with the cost of propane, anywhere I can save some money is worth it.


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## skijay (Oct 6, 2008)

I have to wait until mid November for my install.  I am going to get my chimney relined (I think that is the term) with a stainless steel pipe for the venting of the new boiler a couple of days after the install.


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## frozencorn (Oct 7, 2008)

Any suggestions on a new furnace and which way to go? Our boiler is fine, and the forced heat works, just with some clanging and occasional oil smells. Were told we needed a new furnace, but I'd like to lay out my options before laying down a few grand on whatever the oil company is telling me to get.


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## Glenn (Oct 7, 2008)

Get a bunch of estimates. We just put in a new central A/C unit this year (split system with an air handler) and the prices varried quite a bit. Plus, it was itneresting to see the different plans each company had.


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## Marc (Oct 7, 2008)

Grassi21 said:


> Just put a down pament down on this bad boy...
> 
> Jotul 450
> 
> ...



Nice choice!

Jotul makes really nice stuff.

I bought one of these:






Hearthstone Heritage

But if I was going the cast iron route, it probably would have been Jotul.  If you have any questions about wood burning, let me know.  Also, check out the forums at hearth.com.


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## skijay (Dec 3, 2008)

I got the new system installed.  I need to get accustomed to the fact the furnace does not turn on when I need hot water.  It is quiet with the exception of the fresh air intake that runs under the dining room.  I can hear it when the furnace fires up.  The boiler only runs for a few minutes at a time, not used to that!  

I am happy I spent the extra money for this system even with the decline in heating oil prices.  

Before:





After:


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## Marc (Dec 4, 2008)

Nice skijay, Buderus is on my shortlist when I eventually replace my old boiler.  Looks like you went from circulators to zone valves... is that right?


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## Grassi21 (Dec 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> Nice choice!
> 
> Jotul makes really nice stuff.
> 
> ...



That is a beautiful stove.  When we refinish the basement I want to purchase a stove like yours to replace the propane stove.


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## Geoff (Dec 4, 2008)

I have forced hot water propane and metered propane from a big common tank.  We're paying $2.25 per gallon this year.  I'm in a townhouse with shared walls on both sides so my heat bill is usually reasonable.

I doubt I get positive heat gain from my fireplace so I rarely use it.  I really should get an insert for it or at least a fan-driven system to push hot air into the room.


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## Glenn (Dec 4, 2008)

Nice system skijay! It's cool how now they can use one circulator and zone valves...instead of a separate circulator for each zone.


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## Marc (Dec 4, 2008)

Do you have two flues in that chimney skijay?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 4, 2008)

skijay said:


> I got the new system installed.  I need to get accustomed to the fact the furnace does not turn on when I need hot water.  It is quiet with the exception of the fresh air intake that runs under the dining room.  I can hear it when the furnace fires up.  The boiler only runs for a few minutes at a time, not used to that!
> 
> I am happy I spent the extra money for this system even with the decline in heating oil prices.
> 
> ...



Boner City..


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## skijay (Dec 4, 2008)

I do have two flues. One now has a stainless steel liner & insulation in it for the furnace.  The other one is for the fireplace  above and wood stove in the picture.  Both have not been used since 1986.  That is when the one in the basement was hooked up. 

The house originally had 3 zones but due to problems it was cut to two zones sometime around 1985 / 1986.  It is a small house around 2000 sq ft.  I do have the two zone valves which is suppose to be more reliable.  I have replaced both circulators within the past 3 yrs on the old system


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## jct (Dec 5, 2008)

Interesting Posts!  I am a custom home builder and remodeler.  As you can imagine I'm often in the position of recommending new heating systems and upgrades.  I have coordinated the installation of many Buderus boilers and my customers love them.  Last year I put one in a new home with radiant heat on 3 floors, the thing was so quiet I called the plumber back because I didn't think it was working!

For a recent water heater replacement we installed an "on demand" water heater.  No tank, you heat water only when you need it, as opposed to keeping a 40 gal. tank of water hot 24/7.  What a sweet deal.

On my current job we've installed a Tarm dual fuel boiler, wood & oil.  The boiler runs full out twice a day heating water which is stored in a 600 gallon insulated tank.  We have also installed solar panels on the standing seam steel roof for water heating (mostly in the summer).


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## Glenn (Dec 6, 2008)

A dual boiler...now that sounds interesting.


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## skijay (Dec 8, 2008)

I did look into going with a tankless water heater (on demand) using propane, but it would take many years to break even on the system.  I wanted to do that to save on oil.  

My 2009 project is going to look into having solar panels installed on my roof and selling the electricity back to the electric company (net metering).  If I can get it done for $15,000 (after rebates) & permits & permission, I may do it.


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## Marc (Dec 9, 2008)

jct said:


> Interesting Posts!  I am a custom home builder and remodeler.  As you can imagine I'm often in the position of recommending new heating systems and upgrades.  I have coordinated the installation of many Buderus boilers and my customers love them.  Last year I put one in a new home with radiant heat on 3 floors, the thing was so quiet I called the plumber back because I didn't think it was working!
> 
> For a recent water heater replacement we installed an "on demand" water heater.  No tank, you heat water only when you need it, as opposed to keeping a 40 gal. tank of water hot 24/7.  What a sweet deal.
> 
> On my current job we've installed a Tarm dual fuel boiler, wood & oil.  The boiler runs full out twice a day heating water which is stored in a 600 gallon insulated tank.  We have also installed solar panels on the standing seam steel roof for water heating (mostly in the summer).



Tarm makes good units.  I'm looking into clean wood boilers for my old farmhouse... Tarm is on the short list (well, the list is short even if all manufacturers of downdraft boilers are included).

Do you know how the oil side of a Tarm combo unit compares with some of the newer high end oil boilers?  Also you don't happen to know and would mind sharing how much (installed) that duel fuel boiler plus the storage tank was do you?  If I ever go that route I think I'll be installing pressurized heat storage.


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## mikes334 (Nov 23, 2009)

I will have to checkout tarm. Thanks.


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