# gas < $2/gal, rev 1.0



## jack97 (Jan 22, 2015)

It appears the big server located in the sky deleted the gas price thread. i figure it might be worth while to restart it.

Today, saw 1.99 at Hess Andover MA.  A couple of days ago, 2.19 at the 93/89 NH rest stop.


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## mriceyman (Jan 22, 2015)

1.73 cnj


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## hammer (Jan 22, 2015)

Interesting how 93 Octane is still 40 cents more per gallon even though gas is down almost 50% from its peak...just paid over $2.50/gallon.


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 23, 2015)

1.59 here in Houston... One of the few perks!


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## Tin (Jan 23, 2015)

hammer said:


> Interesting how 93 Octane is still 40 cents more per gallon even though gas is down almost 50% from its peak...just paid over $2.50/gallon.




You put 93 in the Volvo?!


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## moresnow (Jan 23, 2015)

hammer said:


> Interesting how 93 Octane is still 40 cents more per gallon even though gas is down almost 50% from its peak...just paid over $2.50/gallon.



93 octane will always be more than regular. Gas prices have dropped because crude has dropped.  The costs of refining and additional additives hasn't.


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## hammer (Jan 23, 2015)

Tin said:


> You put 93 in the Volvo?!


Don't _have_ to but the turbo likes it more...although the bump in gas mileage may not be worth the extra cost at this point.


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## Geoff (Jan 23, 2015)

moresnow said:


> 93 octane will always be more than regular. Gas prices have dropped because crude has dropped.  The costs of refining and additional additives hasn't.



Premium doesn't have "additional additives".   The extra cost at the refinery to make the small amount of premium gasoline is minimal.  It's blended with 10% ethanol which is 115 octane so the gasoline part only needs to be 88 octane to produce 91 octane my VW GTI requires.  Most of the price spread is the much lower demand for 91-93 octane fuel compared to 87 octane fuel.   The gas station buys it and it sits in a huge tank in the ground mostly not being used while their 87 octane storage tank gets sucked dry.   Demand for premium gasoline has been dropping steadily for the last 20 years.  Everybody now knows that if your car doesn't require it, it's stupid to waste money on more expensive fuel.   Those of us with turbos and high compression normally aspirated performance engines just don't buy enough fuel because there simply aren't many of us.

In my travels, I can often find a high volume gas station where the spread is closer to 20 cents than 40+ cents I typically see at the lowest volume stations.

Here are the top 10 cars sold in the US in 2014.  I'm not aware that any of them require premium fuel:
Ford F-Series pickup
Chevy Silverado pickup
Dodge Ram pickup
Toyota Camry
Honda Accord
Toyota Corolla
Nissan Altima
Honda CR-V
Honda Civic
Ford Fusion

It's kind of ironic that virtually any car I like requires premium fuel.  I really want my next car to run regular gas because of the growing price spread in fuel cost.  That's pushing me towards a Subaru Outback and I really should buy the 4 cylinder model to get the 33 mpg highway instead of the 6 cylinder 250-ish hp engine that gets maybe 28 on the highway with a very light foot.  I'm finding it really hard to get excited about buying such an appliance.


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## Tin (Jan 23, 2015)

What you don't spend on fuel you'll spend on oil. Have to put a few quarts in most Subarus between oil changes. My GFs burns 2-3 quarts between changes. Going straight on the highway for a few hours will burn about a quart as well. Damn piston rings.


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## Geoff (Jan 23, 2015)

hammer said:


> Don't _have_ to but the turbo likes it more...although the bump in gas mileage may not be worth the extra cost at this point.



I think just about any modern turbo will run on 87 octane but the engine control will sense the knocking and fiddle with the ignition timing and turbo boost so the engine puts out a lot less horsepower.  If you're driving like a hypermiler, you probably don't notice much and it would save you money.  Most of us don't drive that way.  I've never put anything but premium fuel in any turbo I've owned.


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## Tin (Jan 23, 2015)

moresnow said:


> 93 octane will always be more than regular. Gas prices have dropped because crude has dropped.  The costs of refining and additional additives hasn't.



The difference in mine was about 2 mpg when I put 91 in.


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## Geoff (Jan 23, 2015)

Tin said:


> What you don't spend on fuel you'll spend on oil. Have to put a few quarts in most Subarus between oil changes. My GFs burns 2-3 quarts between changes. Going straight on the highway for a few hours will burn about a quart as well. Damn piston rings.



Subaru claims they've fixed that problem.   I've been watching the Subaru Outback forum closely and the 5th generation 2015 Outback doesn't seem to have the issue.  The big gripe is wind noise from the little fixed windows in the driver and passenger doors.   Another reason why you don't ever buy the first model year of anything.


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## Tin (Jan 23, 2015)

My favorite thing about the Subaru is how easy it is to work on but some things are just too simple and that is why they have issues.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 23, 2015)

Just put new valves in my (11) Subi. There was nothing wrong with the old valves (74,000 miles). Busted timing belt is what caused the valves to burn out.


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## hammer (Jan 23, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Just put new valves in my (11) Subi. There was nothing wrong with the old valves (74,000 miles). Busted timing belt is what caused the valves to burn out.


What's the schedule for replacing a timing belt on a Subaru?  My Toyota Highlander was 90K miles and my Volvo is 105K miles I believe.  A bit surprising that the belt would break at 74K.

Interested to know, my son has an 2009 Impreza with around 63K or so.


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 23, 2015)

*gas &lt; $2/gal, rev 1.0*



Tin said:


> My favorite thing about the Subaru is how easy it is to work on but some things are just too simple and that is why they have issues.



+1. Oil changes are very easy with the oil filter being right in front of you under the hood.

Downside though is that underneath the car, the tranny fluid is right next to the oil pan. If you're not paying attention you could accidentally drain out your transmission fluid, I almost did that my first oil change


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## steamboat1 (Jan 23, 2015)

hammer said:


> What's the schedule for replacing a timing belt on a Subaru?  My Toyota Highlander was 90K miles and my Volvo is 105K miles I believe.  A bit surprising that the belt would break at 74K.
> 
> Interested to know, my son has an 2009 Impreza with around 63K or so.


Subaru recommends 105,000 for changing timing belt. Just had the timing belt changed 3 weeks ago while changing all other belts & hoses trying to do preventive maintenance. Guy talked me into doing the timing belt at the same time. Needless to say he F'd up the job. Picking up the car in VT. tomorrow morning. Just hope all is well.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 23, 2015)

Geoff said:


> Premium doesn't have "additional additives".   The extra cost at the refinery to make the small amount of premium gasoline is minimal.  It's blended with 10% ethanol which is 115 octane so the gasoline part only needs to be 88 octane to produce 91 octane my VW GTI requires.  Most of the price spread is the much lower demand for 91-93 octane fuel compared to 87 octane fuel.   The gas station buys it and it sits in a huge tank in the ground mostly not being used while their 87 octane storage tank gets sucked dry.   Demand for premium gasoline has been dropping steadily for the last 20 years.  Everybody now knows that if your car doesn't require it, it's stupid to waste money on more expensive fuel.   Those of us with turbos and high compression normally aspirated performance engines just don't buy enough fuel because there simply aren't many of us.
> 
> In my travels, I can often find a high volume gas station where the spread is closer to 20 cents than 40+ cents I typically see at the lowest volume stations.
> 
> ...


Geoff I'm sure you are aware there are two gas stations near K that sell premium gas with no ehtanol added. Ones in Rutland near the hospital (forget the name). The other is White's near Mt. Tabor on rt.7. Price is about the same as stations selling premium with 10% ethanol added.


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## hammer (Jan 23, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Subaru recommends 105,000 for changing timing belt. Just had the timing belt changed 3 weeks ago while changing all other belts & hoses trying to do preventive maintenance. Guy talked me into doing the timing belt at the same time. Needless to say he F'd up the job. Picking up the car in VT. tomorrow morning. Just hope all is well.


Sorry about that...you think you are doing the right thing and then stuff happens.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 23, 2015)

hammer said:


> Sorry about that...you think you are doing the right thing and then stuff happens.


The new 15 Subaru's no longer have a timing belt. They went back to installing timing chains.


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## Tin (Jan 23, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Just put new valves in my (11) Subi. There was nothing wrong with the old valves (74,000 miles). Busted timing belt is what caused the valves to burn out.




Burn out? Since it is a non-interference engine when the timing belt went the valves were smashed and bent to hell when the piston reached top dead center. I just hope it didn't mess up the pistons. This is an example of the damage when driving at a low rpm for only a few seconds. Nothing like metal on metal slamming into one another a couple dozen times. I would honestly sell the thing asap and say the heads were just rebuilt...since they were. 

Hammer, this is an issue for most Volvo too. I got mine changed early and a two year guarantee. I will probably do it again in 2 years even though it isn't due for another 75k miles just to be safe. Rather spend $700 in preventative maintenance to have the belt changed than thousands for motor rebuilds.


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## mishka (Jan 23, 2015)

Tin said:


> You put 93 in the Volvo?!



I used to own S40 when they first came out. IIRC used a regular without problem


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## Geoff (Jan 23, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Geoff I'm sure you are aware there are two gas stations near K that sell premium gas with no ehtanol added. Ones in Rutland near the hospital (forget the name). The other is White's near Mt. Tabor on rt.7. Price is about the same as stations selling premium with 10% ethanol added.



I almost never fuel up the GTI in Rutland and my car runs fine with ethanol.  I buy ethanol-free gas in Rutland and lug it to the ethanol hell of Massachusetts for my outboard and lawnmower.  It saves a lot of rebuilt carbs.


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## Tin (Jan 24, 2015)

What have you had for ethanol issues in an outboard?


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## xwhaler (Jan 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> What have you had for ethanol issues in an outboard?



Ethanol is bad for outboards as it causes damage to fuel lines and carbs.  I run marine stabil through every tank i run in my boat as well as 91/93 octane


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## Tin (Jan 24, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> Ethanol is bad for outboards as it causes damage to fuel lines and carbs.  I run marine stabil through every tank i run in my boat as well as 91/93 octane



Stabil is great stuff, the other part of the problem is making sure the gas tank is completely full or completely empty to avoid water getting in. I think it really depends on the motor, some of my friends with older Mercs (specfically Black Max, Optis, and EFIs) always have issues in the spring.


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## Geoff (Jan 24, 2015)

Tin said:


> What have you had for ethanol issues in an outboard?



The main reason is that you shouldn't let ethanol blend gasoline sit in the carburetor over the winter.   It is prone to gumming up even with fuel stabilizer.  There are two schools of thought... either run the outboard completely out of fuel; or make sure your last tank of the season is ethanol-free fuel.   I go the ethanol-free path most years.  I empty the tank into the SUV with a funnel and put a gallon of ethanol-free gas into the tank before I use my inflatable for the last time.   My last lawnmower fill is also with ethanol-free fuel.

Ethanol also absorbs water.  I don't put many hours on my outboard in a season.  When I open the vent on the tank before I start the outboard, it's letting moist ocean air into the tank.   Some of that is getting absorbed into the fuel.

My outboard and lawn mower are both pretty new.  Older outboards have all kinds of problems with alcohol acting as a solvent and destroying rubber parts.   I don't think I have that problem.


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 24, 2015)

If I didn't know any better I'd say the OP's ulterior motive was to have this thread (well, both threads) delve into politics


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## jack97 (Jan 25, 2015)

skiNEwhere said:


> If I didn't know any better I'd say the OP's ulterior motive was to have this thread (well, both threads) delve into politics



I'll take your bait. If delving into falling gas/oil price relates to the economy which relates to government philosophy on taxation ... then the answer is maybe.

Last time gas prices this low, I use to travel up to VT more often, brings back some fond memories.


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## Nick (Jan 26, 2015)

I use premium in my car. I have a Saab and I think the higher octane is a requirement of the turbo. My wife's Ford Edge just uses plain ol' regular.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tin said:


> Burn out? Since it is a non-interference engine when the timing belt went the valves were smashed and bent to hell when the piston reached top dead center. I just hope it didn't mess up the pistons. This is an example of the damage when driving at a low rpm for only a few seconds. Nothing like metal on metal slamming into one another a couple dozen times. I would honestly sell the thing asap and say the heads were just rebuilt...since they were.
> 
> Hammer, this is an issue for most Volvo too. I got mine changed early and a two year guarantee. I will probably do it again in 2 years even though it isn't due for another 75k miles just to be safe. Rather spend $700 in preventative maintenance to have the belt changed than thousands for motor rebuilds.


Car still runs like shit after the rebuild although I did make it to VT. & back this week & drove it home from VT. Sun so 1 & a 1/2 round trips. One of the valves still has a tick. It was especially noticeable after starting the car Thurs. morning when it was -8. I'll be looking to trade it in for a new one soon.


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## prsboogie (Jan 31, 2015)

Another issue ethanol will give you is the deterioration of gaskets. Especially on older model cars and lawn equipment. The shit is no good for any vehicle. 

Back to the op, paid $1.90 in Fall River today at Cumberland's with smart pay.


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## Tin (Feb 1, 2015)

Nick said:


> I use premium in my car. I have a Saab and I think the higher octane is a requirement of the turbo. My wife's Ford Edge just uses plain ol' regular.



You could run most Fords and Chevys on moonshine. Don't ask how I know that.


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## skiNEwhere (Feb 1, 2015)

How do you know that?


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## moresnow (Feb 1, 2015)

Tin said:


> You could run most Fords and Chevys on moonshine. Don't ask how I know that.





skiNEwhere said:


> How do you know that?



Now you've done it.


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## ctenidae (Feb 2, 2015)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/0...-members-to-go-on-strike-at-major-refineries/

The end is nigh. The end of lower gas prices, at least, probably.


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## AdironRider (Feb 5, 2015)

skiNEwhere said:


> How do you know that?




Ever been to a dragway? Alcohol funny cars under the stars!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2015)

ctenidae said:


> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/0...-members-to-go-on-strike-at-major-refineries/
> 
> The end is nigh. The end of lower gas prices, at least, probably.



Saw prices as high as $2.45 in Northern Maine today.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 12, 2015)

Nick said:


> I use premium in my car. I have a Saab and I think the higher octane is a requirement of the turbo. My wife's Ford Edge just uses plain ol' regular.



It's not the turbo that needs the 93 it's the engine.  Most likely your car has the timing bumped up therfore requires 93.


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