# Steepest slope in the east



## ALLSKIING (Jun 15, 2005)

Ok lets go! No BC
My vote White Nitro at the Loaf or Ovation at K.


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## salida (Jun 15, 2005)

are you asking for the steepest slope at a ski area? or in the east in general?


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 15, 2005)

salida said:
			
		

> are you asking for the steepest slope at a ski area? or in the east in general?


Ski area.


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## ga2ski (Jun 15, 2005)

Tucks.  other wise  black hole at sunday river. not long but steep.


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## awf170 (Jun 15, 2005)

ALLSKIING said:
			
		

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hmmmm for a really short spot the backside it is steeper then white nitro, a very small section though.

and nice thread idea, always brings up good arguement


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## loafer89 (Jun 15, 2005)

My vote is:

Jagger at Sugarloaf


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## Strat (Jun 15, 2005)

Never done it, but I'm just gonna throw out Teardrop because of what I've heard about it... sounds severe...


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## awf170 (Jun 15, 2005)

Strat said:
			
		

> Never done it, but I'm just gonna throw out Teardrop because of what I've heard about it... sounds severe...


 teardrop... come again, where is that at


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## riverc0il (Jun 15, 2005)

stowe, but i don't think that's inbounds?


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## awf170 (Jun 15, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> stowe, but i don't think that's inbounds?


\

ya but if we count OB the headwall at tucks just blows everything away


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## Strat (Jun 15, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

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Backside of mansfield... Map showing it here: http://lew.lasher.home.att.net/maps/w-mansfield.gif


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## salida (Jun 15, 2005)

there are plenty of 50+ degree chutes in the backcountry, they just arent highly publicized....


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 15, 2005)

No BC only resorts


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 15, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> My vote is:
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> Jagger at Sugarloaf


Have to go midseason to ski that. :wink:


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## takeahike46er (Jun 16, 2005)

When _The Rumor_ first opened at Gore it was billed as the steepest trail in the east.  While the headwall has been toned down in recent years it certainly ranks among the steepest.


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## Vortex (Jun 16, 2005)

I vote White Nitro.  Ga2ski, you think black hole is steeper than Upper Vortex.  Maybe its the transition from the upper part to lower section of the trail that makes Vortex seems more challenging to me. Also the view up the chair makes Black hole look steep and usually icy.. Anyway I would prefer upper and lower vortex over White Nitro or black hole.


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## JimG. (Jun 16, 2005)

My vote for steepest run inbounds is for Paradise at MRG.


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## loafer89 (Jun 16, 2005)

I agree that the Rumor trail at Gore gets my vote for steepest and scariest run in New York State. When I skied the trail in January 2003, they had just opened it with a nice coating of machine made ice, I was happy to make it down in one piece.


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## St. Jerry (Jun 16, 2005)

I have skied them all in the north east/New England and the upper section/headwall of the Rumor at Gore on the skier's left is the steepest trail out there.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 16, 2005)

What about skier's right and center on Upper FIS at Sugarbush?  That's pretty intense...


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## loafer89 (Jun 16, 2005)

My vote for steepest still goes with the backside of the Snowfields at Sugarloaf, especially Ignitor, Jagger and High Rigger. I only skied these trails during the extreme snow year of 1997, but they are VERY steep.


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 16, 2005)

How about the Face of Jay Peak! Definately inbounds. With a good snow year many possible super steep lines open up.
((*
*))NHPH


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## loafer89 (Jun 16, 2005)

What is the tight run under the tram rated at?

That was my #1 ski experience in the East with powder past my waist


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 16, 2005)

If you're refering to the Jay Tram then those are the Face Chutes and Tuckerman Chute. There is nothing more than single blacks at Jay, so ya better be sure you are up to snuff!
((*
*))NHPH


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## JimG. (Jun 16, 2005)

NHpowderhound said:
			
		

> How about the Face of Jay Peak! Definately inbounds. With a good snow year many possible super steep lines open up.
> ((*
> *))NHPH



I was going to mention the Face also; need a good snow year to really enjoy.


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## loafer89 (Jun 16, 2005)

I skied the narrow chute under the Tram at Jay Peak in March of 1999, and the snow was incredibly deep and light.


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 16, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> What about skier's right and center on Upper FIS at Sugarbush?  That's pretty intense...


Do you think that is the steepest at Sugarbush? What about ripcord?


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## pepperdawg (Jun 16, 2005)

Solitude at Killington


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 16, 2005)

pepperdawg said:
			
		

> Solitude at Killington


Where is that trail?


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## loafer89 (Jun 16, 2005)

Nah, Solitude is WAY too steep, my vote is Juggernaut :lol:   

Good one


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## loafer89 (Jun 16, 2005)

Solitude is a green trail off of Killington Peak/South Ridge area that parallels Juggernaut for a time. Both trails are incredibly flat.


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 16, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> Nah, Solitude is WAY too steep, my vote is Juggernaut :lol:
> 
> Good one


Ahh.. Now I get it.


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## pepperdawg (Jun 16, 2005)

ummm...Sarcasm


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## sledhaulingmedic (Jun 16, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> My vote for steepest run inbounds is for Paradise at MRG.



Depending on who you ask, Paradise is technically OB.  Octapus's Garden is steeper, but certainly OB.


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## awf170 (Jun 16, 2005)

sledhaulingmedic said:
			
		

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isnt it on the trail map... really wanna go do it


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## Strat (Jun 16, 2005)

ALLSKIING said:
			
		

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FIS is quite a bit steeper than ripcord... some of the sections of rumble are supposedly close to that as well...


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## awf170 (Jun 16, 2005)

Strat said:
			
		

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mmmmmmmmmm... rumble


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 16, 2005)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
 I'm not quite that skilled in posting pics to this site yet.
((*
*))NHPH


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 17, 2005)

NHpowderhound said:
			
		

> http://forums.alpinezone.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album97&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
> I'm not quite that skilled in posting pics to this site yet.
> ((*
> *))NHPH


Nice pic..That is steep.


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## djspookman (Jun 17, 2005)

Freefall at Smuggs.  It has a very steep sustained pitch, so much so that on the right day, your sluff can knock you down!  The upper part (skiiers right)of FIS, and The TOP of Paradise at MRG come in at a close second though.  Who really skiis the trails anyway though?  The woods are where the steeps are hiding! 

And for whoever mentioned the Teardrop, its not that steep, but its a TON of fun!

Looking down the Teardrop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...il/2-13-05-11-Teardropviewsandlookingdown.jpg

Looking up
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...eardrop Trail/2-13-05-9-LookingupTeardrop.jpg


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## pepperdawg (Jun 17, 2005)

Man all that fluffy goodness on those Teardrop p[ics are looking soooo tasty right about now.....


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## djspookman (Jun 17, 2005)

pepperdawg said:
			
		

> Man all that fluffy goodness on those Teardrop p[ics are looking soooo tasty right about now.....



yah, and it was.  My lab came with us and she was buried most of the hike, and on the way down it was sweet to see her blasting thru that fluff!

can't wait till next year!


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## JimG. (Jun 17, 2005)

sledhaulingmedic said:
			
		

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Technically yes, but it's on the trail map and it has a trail marker sign on it...to me that's inbounds. The Garden is definitely OB.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 17, 2005)

Strat said:
			
		

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Yes, overall, Upper FIS is steeper than Ripcord.  There is one pitch on Ripcord which is very steep...it is the pitch about 60 percent down the trail near where Paradise spills onto it.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 17, 2005)

Then again, we can play the game that LBO at Sunday River did with White Heat...it's the steepest trail in the east when one uses % over degrees to measure pitch (or was it the other way around?)


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## JimG. (Jun 17, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Then again, we can play the game that LBO at Sunday River did with White Heat...it's the steepest trail in the east when one uses % over degrees to measure pitch (or was it the other way around?)



I use a better measure...how far my heart comes up my throat just before I push off.


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 17, 2005)

LBO and his notorious marketing department tried to pull the wool(or fleece in this case)over our eyes with thier White Heat claim, "Steepest Longest Widest Lift Serviced Trail in the East". Add a comma anywhere in that claim and it's not true anymore. It's not the steepest or the longest or the widest and certainly not the only trail with a lift on it, but collectively it's true. Typical ASC. My favorite was when they broke all of K-Mart's trails into Upper, Middle and Lower and doubled thier trail count without cutting a single tree! :roll:


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## Vortex (Jun 17, 2005)

I think Shock Wave is steeper than White heat.  I think Vortex is steeper than either of the those.  Ga2ski thinks Black hole is steeper than all of those.  I think Black hole is steeper than White heat or shock wave.  So I think a better way to debate it is how does it ski.  Ie JimG  is your heart in your throat during the run.  Great way to explain it Jim G  :beer:


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## kickstand (Jun 17, 2005)

NHpowderhound said:
			
		

> My favorite was when they broke all of K-Mart's trails into Upper, Middle and Lower and doubled thier trail count without cutting a single tree! :roll:



they did that for ski patrol, not to boost trail counts.  Using Polecat at Wildcat as an example, if someone radios in "down skier on Polecat", where do you go?  The trail is almost 3 miles long.  "Down skier on Lower Polecat" is much more precise, and means patrol can possibly take a shorter lift, maybe even use a sled, to reach the victim faster.


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## salida (Jun 17, 2005)

sure.... I'm sure if you look at their patrol incidents before and after they doubled their trail count that they are far more efficent now, rescuing far more people in a short time span... oh wait before they had upper and lower, they could use trail intersections, what a concept....

jeez dont make excuses up for them, they are bad enough as it is, its a marketing excuse plain and simple


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## awf170 (Jun 17, 2005)

salida said:
			
		

> sure.... I'm sure if you look at their patrol incidents before and after they doubled their trail count that they are far more efficent now, rescuing far more people in a short time span... oh wait before they had upper and lower, they could use trail intersections, what a concept....
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> jeez dont make excuses up for them, they are bad enough as it is, its a marketing excuse plain and simple



stowe seems fine without upper middle lower and headwall(i like how killington puts that in too)


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## skibum1321 (Jun 17, 2005)

I would also like to cast my vote for Freefall at Smuggs. There are parts where you are almost looking straight down at people below you. Unfortunately there usually isn't enough snow to open it. It didn't open top to bottom once this year. 

I think some people in this post are confusing hardest trail for steepest. Paradise is one of the hardest trails but it's not overwhelmingly steep.


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## awf170 (Jun 17, 2005)

maybe we should gather up and make a list of the top 5 steepest then make a poll and see which one comes out on top


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## awf170 (Jun 17, 2005)

alright i think this is the 5 most popular votes so far
*freefall smuggs*
*snowfields sugarloaf east side/backside*(im just going to make it general cause it is all about the same, and some of it never even opens)
*Paradise MRG*
*face chutes jay*or anywere else in that area
and the last spot im debating over blackhole sunday river or rumor at gore what do u think


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## awf170 (Jun 17, 2005)

what about staircase at jay that looks insanely steep, really wanna ski it


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 17, 2005)

What about cunclusion at k? I skied that last year and it was pretty steep..The huge bumps may have made it feel steeper then it was though.


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## awf170 (Jun 17, 2005)

salida said:
			
		

> sure.... I'm sure if you look at their patrol incidents before and after they doubled their trail count that they are far more efficent now, rescuing far more people in a short time span... oh wait before they had upper and lower, they could use trail intersections, what a concept....
> 
> jeez dont make excuses up for them, they are bad enough as it is, its a marketing excuse plain and simple


they also count pico in the trail count... what a joke :roll:


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 17, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

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That is really bad!!


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 17, 2005)

Staircase/Everglade  are a couple of my favorite trails at Jay! My favorite marked trail is Valhalla, unmarked and #1 overall is P.H. Of course first tracks in Beaver Pond aint too bad niether.
http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
((*
*))NHPH


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## awf170 (Jun 17, 2005)

NHpowderhound said:
			
		

> Staircase/Everglade  are a couple of my favorite trails at Jay! My favorite marked trail is Valhalla, unmarked and #1 overall is P.H. Of course first tracks in Beaver Pond aint too bad niether.
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
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so how steep is staircase?  i love valhalla


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## GrizzlyFD (Jun 18, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

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Staircase has some steep drop offs, and then levels out near the bottom for a real nice glade that doesn't get tracked out that much.  The top is almost never open because of the wind so you sometimes have to find altenate roots to get into the glade.  The steepest marked trails at Jay are the face the top of green beret and upper river quai.

In a good snow year, there is an unmarked trail between the face and tucks chutes called the check that is pretty steep (consistently).  You actually ski on top of some small pine trees all the way down.


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 18, 2005)

The best part about Staircase is the top almost always looks like a boneyard with lots of steep exposed rocks and stumps. However when once you get 25yards in its total coverage. Helps keep the tourists out. :lol: 
((*
*))NHPH


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## takeahike46er (Jun 19, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> alright i think this is the 5 most popular votes so far
> *freefall smuggs*
> *snowfields sugarloaf east side/backside*(im just going to make it general cause it is all about the same, and some of it never even opens)
> *Paradise MRG*
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Unquestionably _The Rumor_ should be included.  

http://community.webshots.com/photo/280275869/280275869HeHnAs
http://community.webshots.com/photo/265588277/265588277FPeZkW


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## awf170 (Jun 19, 2005)

takeahike46er said:
			
		

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alright i guess, still doesnt look that steep compared to the other stuff but ill include it


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## takeahike46er (Jun 19, 2005)

Not steep!?  

Compare it to a shot of White Nitro.  It stacks up.  Ski it.  Believe it.

WN
http://www.alpinezone.com/albums/album75/DSC06236.jpg


Rumor
http://image34.webshots.com/34/8/82/77/265588277FPeZkW_ph.jpg


on the right...


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## awf170 (Jun 19, 2005)

that is not the steep part of white nitro and what is on my list is not white nitro it is pure heat which is steeper

im not trying to say it is not steep im just saying it doesnt look like it is steep enough for that list

and im not positive with my arguement thats why i put it on the list still


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 19, 2005)

Its very hard to go by just looking at pictures. It all depends on how the pic it taken if it looks steep or not.


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## awf170 (Jun 19, 2005)

ALLSKIING said:
			
		

> Its very hard to go by just looking at pictures. It all depends on how the pic it taken if it looks steep or not.



have you skiied rumor and if you did what do you think of it


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## ski_resort_observer (Jun 19, 2005)

I remember Goat Trail at Stowe as being steep, there was a trail at Magic that I remember as being pretty steep but can't remember the name. Stein at the Bush is pretty steep.


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 20, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

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No never even been to Gore.


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## dmc (Jun 20, 2005)

Lower K27 at Hunter was pretty steep at the top this year due to some agressive snowmaking


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 20, 2005)

dmc said:
			
		

> Lower K27 at Hunter was pretty steep at the top this year due to some agressive snowmaking


Thats some serious vert. :wink:


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## awf170 (Jun 20, 2005)

ski_resort_observer said:
			
		

> I remember Goat Trail at Stowe as being steep, there was a trail at Magic that I remember as being pretty steep but can't remember the name. Stein at the Bush is pretty steep.



ya got is steep but i still didnt think it was steep enough for that list, nice trail though


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## JimG. (Jun 20, 2005)

ski_resort_observer said:
			
		

> I remember Goat Trail at Stowe as being steep, there was a trail at Magic that I remember as being pretty steep but can't remember the name. Stein at the Bush is pretty steep.



The headwall on Goat is steep, but short; same story on Starr, the headwall is very steep but only 5 turns or so long.

I believe Redline is the trail at Magic that you mention.


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## awf170 (Jun 20, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

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i thought starr was steeper than goat for a short amount... i remember talking to some one on the lift about goat and they made it sound so hard and said i should never do it alone and then it did it was like that is, not that hard(it would have been really easy if the whole trail had snow on it) now goat woods looks sick


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## JimG. (Jun 20, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> i thought starr was steeper than goat for a short amount... i remember talking to some one on the lift about goat and they made it sound so hard and said i should never do it alone and then it did it was like that is, not that hard(it would have been really easy if the whole trail had snow on it) now goat woods looks sick



Starr is a little steeper; the trees next to Goat are awesome!


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## ctenidae (Jun 20, 2005)

Has anyone actually collected data on runs to see what's steep and what isn't? I want to head out to Sunapee (where I know the trails best) and hike some of them, to get an idea of what steep is. Does anyone know what the "average" slope is?


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## awf170 (Jun 20, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> Has anyone actually collected data on runs to see what's steep and what isn't? I want to head out to Sunapee (where I know the trails best) and hike some of them, to get an idea of what steep is. Does anyone know what the "average" slope is?



all that i figured out is that 3 to 1 length and to vertical ratio and steeper is ussually black terrian and 4 to 1 is average intermiaite terrian so with so math you figure out the slope.... my guess is about 15-20 degrees


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## ctenidae (Jun 20, 2005)

Interesting thought there, awf. Gonna have to remember trig to figure it out.

This is pretty cool, though-
http://www.couloirmag.com/articles/techniques/slope_angles/angle_estimation.htm

If you see anyone out playing with poles this winter, you'll know they're an AZ'er.


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## awf170 (Jun 20, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

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i drew them i just dont have a protectator to figure it out... here is an example of some lifts
Wildcat Express Quad - 6,700 feet vertical 2,112
Bear Peak Quad Killington- 2,833 feet vertical 1,184
Rams head quad killington- 5,499 feet vertical 1,073
Snowshead quad killnington- 3,576 feet vertical 560
And the north peak triple is about 3,000 ft vertical 1,000


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## awf170 (Jun 20, 2005)

I just figured out by doing some math that alfs high rustler at alta has a average pitch of somewhere in between 30-35(this is from the top to the cut across where it turns to groomed) my guess is the very top is about 40-45 degrees.  Here is a pic of it.


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## awf170 (Jun 20, 2005)

just did the math the top is about 45 degrees + or - a couple

now compared to the east i dont think anything is that steep or maybe just that steep for about a 100 ft.
I think chilemass would agree with me :wink:


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## awf170 (Jun 21, 2005)

after finding out some info on trails i did at snowbird and alta from liftlines.  I would say that the steepest thing in the east inbounds is under 40 or right at 40 degrees.  And white nitro i would say at is steepest section is 35-40 degrees those liers dont they claim it at 55, maybe if they make a giant snowmaking wave :wink:


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## skintowin (Jun 22, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

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Octopus is definitely steeper. There's also that pitch in the woods below Ferret that's a real bowel-clencher. It's not very long, but damn is it steep!


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## smootharc (Jun 22, 2005)

*Rumor*



			
				awf170 said:
			
		

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Skied Rumor many times last winter - and yes, steep....that kind of smooth/groomed steep that is so different from naturally skied bumped up steep.  Are my edges sharp ?  The bumped steeps are actually, in my opinion, much safer and easier to ski.  The left side of Rumor, from top, is a definite thrill, but only a 3-4 check turn section. 

The comparison to the right side of Upper FIS at SB south is pretty good, though I just like the FIS experience much better.  But I'm skiing both of those eyes closed compared to the Rumble's and Paradise's of the world - where natural obstacles and double fall line factors, well....steep vs. difficult is two different animals. One barks, one bites.     

If steeps are discussed, the suggestion of "steep section" versus "steep sustained" definitely shades the issue as it relates to overall difficulty.  Then, if you toss in things like double fall line's, which make a particular steep a whole different animal, all other things being kept equal, then.....on and on and on we go.

Steep vs. difficult are interesting, and very different things. 


My Suunto ski watch has an angle calculator - works on wrist for degrees or % of pitch.  There's also a pocket slope meter made by the Avalanche folks out in Jackson (forgot the company name) for slope angle as it relates to avy danger.  It's a nifty little thing powered by gravity.


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## dmc (Jun 22, 2005)

*Re: Rumor*



			
				smootharc said:
			
		

> [steep vs. difficult is two different animals. One barks, one bites.



true...
And lets not forget "fall and die(or get seriously hurt)" terrain....

Steepness is subjective...  Angles constantly change duee to weather, melt, snowmaking, etc...  A measurement one day will not be the same the next week...

The bowl at Tucks isn't that bad when there's a ton of snow - but as it melts it gets steeper...


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## Greg (Jun 22, 2005)

*Re: Rumor*



			
				smootharc said:
			
		

> If steeps are discussed, the suggestion of "steep section" versus "steep sustained" definitely shades the issue as it relates to overall difficulty.  Then, if you toss in things like double fall line's, which make a particular steep a whole different animal, all other things being kept equal, then.....on and on and on we go.
> 
> Steep vs. difficult are interesting, and very different things.


You ain't kidding. I've never skied Rumble, but Liftline at Castlerock, while not overly steep, is very difficult. Rocks, thin cover:





...and a *very *pronounced double fall line:





That was a humbling run...


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## NHpowderhound (Jun 22, 2005)

Ahh, the double falline.
http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
((*
*))NHPH


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## JimG. (Jun 22, 2005)

skintowin said:
			
		

> Octopus is definitely steeper. There's also that pitch in the woods below Ferret that's a real bowel-clencher. It's not very long, but damn is it steep!



Been down Octopus, don't think I've been down any woods near Ferret. I gotta figure out a way to get to MRG more often (more than a week a season) and get me some more local knowledge.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 22, 2005)

Love double fall-lines.


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## Greg (Jun 22, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Love double fall-lines.


Organgrinder:





Seems like the 'Bush has a lot of DFLs.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 22, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

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Yes, Double Fall Lines are a trademark of old New England ski terrain. Burke, MRG, and the 'bush have a lot of them.  Other areas bulldozed/graded them out.  

The DFL on Middlebury Snow Bowl's "Allen Race Trail" (skier's right) is downright extreme...


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## smootharc (Jun 22, 2005)

*And don't forget the joys of.....*



			
				thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Love double fall-lines.




....going over the handle bars on a double fall line run....thus making it a triple fall line....

 :wink:


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