# Triple Digit Lift Tickets



## Twism86 (Feb 19, 2014)

So a few years ago I was scoping out life ticket prices up at Stowe and they were around $92. I just checked back and they are at $98, just a tad under the triple digit price tag. Unless you count that card thing you need to buy for $5 along with it (which is BS because Blue Mtn gives you one included in the price then subsequent discounts...) I was wondering if any east coast resort has lost their minds enough to charge over $100 for one day of skiing. While it doesnt look like it yet, we cant say the same for the resorts out west. 

A few are charging over $100 for a single day ticket.... Completely and utterly insane!! I dont know how the people who decide on those prices arent falling off their chairs laughing when they decided to raise the prices that high! I understand skiing isnt a cheap sport to begin with but seriously that is outrageous. As much as I would love to ski one of those big name resorts as a matter of principal im not handing over more than $100 to them! 

How Stowe even gets business surprises me when you can drive 2 minutes down the road to Smuggs and save $30!!!


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## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2014)

Those prices really only apply to last minute, walk up customers on holidays and Saturdays.  Anyone with an inch of foresight can get a discount by buying ahead of time online, through a club, gas station discounts, etc.  If you look at Vails pricing, it drops off for a 2 day or more ticket.  And if you buy and e-ticket there's almost always a decent discount.

I get what you're saying, but they are really just trying to capitalize on those people who are too stupid to look for one of the multitude of deals, or those that have enough money to not really care what they are paying.  Not to mention that resorts are offering a lot more than they used to.  Fancier lodges, faster and higher capacity lifts, HUGE snowmaking systems, and not to mention the ever rising cost of energy to power it all.

They will never raise prices higher than the market can bear.  So if they charge it, that means plenty of people are willing to pay it.


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## TheArchitect (Feb 19, 2014)

It's pretty simple business principle to me.  If the market continues to pay what they charge they'll continue to raise prices.  They're in business to make money, right?  Once they see a marked decline in ticket sales they'll reevaluate the price.

Personally while the terrain at Smuggs is awesome I really hate their lift system.  I'll pay more to ski somewhere I'll get more runs in.


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## Twism86 (Feb 19, 2014)

I havent paid window prices yet this year. I always buy in advance or reload a card. 

I only boarded Smuggs a long time ago so I dont remember much.


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## Nick (Feb 19, 2014)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/88031-Vail-Beaver-Creek-lift-tickets-cross-100-mark


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## Twism86 (Feb 19, 2014)

Newb here... Sorry. Looks like im a few years too late!


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## thetrailboss (Feb 19, 2014)

Twism86 said:


> I havent paid window prices yet this year. I always buy in advance or reload a card.



+ 1.  Most of my skiing is on a season pass and it's been that way for probably most of the last 20 years or so.  I also do promos as well.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 19, 2014)

Twism86 said:


> So a few years ago I was scoping out life ticket prices up at Stowe and they were around $92. I just checked back and they are at $98, just a tad under the triple digit price tag.



$98 walk up window rate, $84 if purchased on line. Pretty significant difference.


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## Nick (Feb 19, 2014)

Twism86 said:


> Newb here... Sorry. Looks like im a few years too late!



It's OK. That thread was a few years old. More done to point you to some earlier discussion about out-west places breaking the $100 barrier. 

I don't think it will happen for at least a few years because of the psychological factor. I'm sure no resort in the NE wants to be the first with that on their website.


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## jimk (Feb 19, 2014)

I went to Aspen around New Year's time.  Great place, great mtns, great experience, but they don't want your/our business.  It's almost like they don't want day tripper/economy skiers.  At Snowmass there pretty much is no day lodge, at least not at The Snowmass Mall/Village where I entered the trail network.  I had to boot up outdoors and leave my stuff under the overhang of a building when I went out to ski.  Discount advance purchase price was $297 for three-day ticket.  However, if IRRC even Aspen sells a four or five ticket package that averages about $60 per day if bought early preseason.  They are also part of the ground breaking Mtn Collective deal from Liftopia which could get you down to about that price too.  What they really want though are the ski weekers/multiday skiers buying into the total vacation package deal.

Same with Vail Resorts.  Day ticket is triple digits, but season pass is ~400 to numerous big resorts.  

These are bizarre times, but if you do your shopping you shouldn't have to deal with too many triple digit tickets.  The way I justified Aspen was to stay in a $65 motel 25 miles down valley and cook food in the microwave.

Stowe is looking for some of the same kind of business, but most of the East is different because of all the nearby day trippers and fewer ski weekers.

Though it's from last spring, this article explains a bit about the general ticket pricing scheme these days:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryol...ket-pass-deals-are-right-now-for-next-season/


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 19, 2014)

Twism86 said:


> So a few years ago I was scoping out life ticket prices up at Stowe and they were around $92. I just checked back and they are at $98, just a tad under the triple digit price tag. Unless you count that card thing you need to buy for $5 along with it (which is BS because Blue Mtn gives you one included in the price then subsequent discounts...) I was wondering if any east coast resort has lost their minds enough to charge over $100 for one day of skiing. While it doesnt look like it yet, we cant say the same for the resorts out west.
> 
> A few are charging over $100 for a single day ticket.... Completely and utterly insane!! I dont know how the people who decide on those prices arent falling off their chairs laughing when they decided to raise the prices that high! I understand skiing isnt a cheap sport to begin with but seriously that is outrageous. As much as I would love to ski one of those big name resorts as a matter of principal im not handing over more than $100 to them!
> 
> How Stowe even gets business surprises me when you can drive 2 minutes down the road to Smuggs and save $30!!!



Stowe is a fashion statement. I know people that have season passes there just because they can. I don't think they ever get there money's worth. 

And Smuggs is only 2 minutes down the road if you snowshoe it.


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## St. Bear (Feb 19, 2014)

I used to think that all the big western resorts made their money off lodging and food, and used lift tickets as a loss leader. Turns out that's generally not the case.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> And Smuggs is only 2 minutes down the road if you snowshoe it.



You must hold the land speed record on snowshoes.


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## Smellytele (Feb 19, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> I used to think that all the big western resorts made their money off lodging and food, and used lift tickets as a loss leader. Turns out that's generally not the case.



They really want you to stay in the area (with them preferably) and ski them more than just one day.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 19, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> You must hold the land speed record on snowshoes.



I'm assuming he meant from the top of the Spruce lift.  Although that would still probably be a land speed record. lol

Though regarding $98 versus $68 tickets rates for Stowe versus Smuggs.  I'm not going to set the bar, and I'm not saying the disparity isnt TOO high, but Stowe definitely should have a premium rate over Smuggs.


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## ss20 (Feb 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> And Smuggs is only 2 minutes down the road if you snowshoe it.



Better have Tunaspeed snowshoes!  

Anyway, I think Stowe's ticket prices will stall at 99$ for a few years before they jump up over $100.  As someone said before, you don't want to be "that" resort that got the Northeast into triple digit prices.  

I think it's OK for resorts to be charging these extravagant prices because it takes 2 seconds online to find a ticket 20$ cheaper.  But for the people who are looking to get into skiing and don't know how easy it is to get discount tickets the price turns them off right away.  Resorts need a "learn to" package that includes rentals and lessons for under 75$.  That's how new people will get into the sport.  Heck, how about an upgrade package that gives you seasonal rentals and a season pass (or a dozen lift tickets, discount card, etc.) for $200 more.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 19, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> You must hold the land speed record on snowshoes.



http://switchzoo.com/profiles/snowshoehare.htm

:razz:


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## steamboat1 (Feb 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> And Smuggs is only 2 minutes *down the road *if you snowshoe it.





BenedictGomez said:


> I'm assuming he meant from the top of the Spruce lift.  Although that would still probably be a land speed record. lol



Didn't realize there was a road on top of Spruce.


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## St. Bear (Feb 19, 2014)

There was an article linked not too long about about Vail's revenue numbers that were released, including a breakdown of where they make their money (passes, lodging, food, etc.).  It was really interesting, and a bit surprising for me.  I'd refer to it, but I can't find it quickly.

Bottom line, it's true that they'll charge what the market will bear.  I'm a great example.  I'm going out to Summit County in a few weeks, and am looking at basically $100 tickets (for a day or two).  My reasoning is that how can I go through all the time and effort to get out there, and not ski some of the biggest and best areas?  Is that $50-whatever dollars really going to make or break me? No.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 19, 2014)

Why anyone pays ticket window prices these days are beyond me.


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## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Didn't realize there was a road on top of Spruce.



SMH.  The god of taking everything literally makes an appearance.  He didn't mean literally 2 minutes, you jackass.  Nor did he necessarily mean an actual road.  It's a freaking expression.  Jesus titty effing Christ, you suck at life on an astronomical scale.  THAT you can take literally. Just once, can we have a thread with out you splitting hairs (that's an expression, no one is trying to cut hairs in half) about everything that gets said?


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## Smellytele (Feb 19, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> SMH.  The god of taking everything literally makes an appearance.  He didn't mean literally 2 minutes, you jackass.  Nor did he necessarily mean an actual road.  It's a freaking expression.  Jesus titty effing Christ, you suck at life on an astronomical scale.  THAT you can take literally. Just once, can we have a thread with out you splitting hairs (that's an expression, no one is trying to cut hairs in half) about everything that gets said?



eeekkk.
Can't we all get along out here on the internets?


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## Tin (Feb 19, 2014)

Whoever is the first to break $100 in the East will have a lot of PR work to do. Stowe is a fashion statement is pretty close to accurate. They have some great marked and unmarked stuff and their snowmaking, lift, and other upgrades almost justify the cost of a ticket sadly. I thought Stratton was the highest for a while in New England after they went 6-pack crazy and that was justifiable. 


I'm very happy to be a student for 6 more years in terms of passes and tickets. This was my first year getting a season pass and I broke even on it in December. I haven't paid window yet and there is now reason with things like Liftopia and Google. Big thanks to the guys who always post in the "Skiing on the Cheap" thread too. Last I calculated it between lift tickets and hotel/B&B expenses I had saved over $1,700 this year.


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## Twism86 (Feb 19, 2014)

If Stowe goes over $100 they need a bubble chair lift like Mt. Snow!! I choose Mt. Snow over other southern VT ski areas for that reason alone. Ok, its the closest to me but why drive further and not have a bubble chair??? That thing is amazing. 

I would pay for a Canyons ticket in Utah because they have one too.


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## KD7000 (Feb 19, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Stowe is a fashion statement. I know people that have season passes there just because they can. I don't think they ever get there money's worth.


Maybe for some.  There is still a huge "locals" contingent of skiers at Stowe.  My brother-in-law and his wife are both passholders.  (both are local school teachers). As ludicrous as pass and day ticket prices are, they certainly have gotten their money's worth this year.

I just got back from 2 days up there.  I did *not* pay window rate.


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## Nick (Feb 19, 2014)

I guess the way to spin $100 tickets is that that's the clientele you want. In that case, you can actually start increasing sales by charging more. I read about it in economics. I forget what it's called but the same principle with other luxury items like watches, shoes, jewelry


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## steamboat1 (Feb 19, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> SMH.  The god of taking everything literally makes an appearance.  He didn't mean literally 2 minutes, you jackass.  Nor did he necessarily mean an actual road.  It's a freaking expression.  Jesus titty effing Christ, you suck at life on an astronomical scale.  THAT you can take literally. Just once, can we have a thread with out you splitting hairs (that's an expression, no one is trying to cut hairs in half) about everything that gets said?


What an ass.


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## Twism86 (Feb 19, 2014)

Nick said:


> I guess the way to spin $100 tickets is that that's the clientele you want. In that case, you can actually start increasing sales by charging more. I read about it in economics. I forget what it's called but the same principle with other luxury items like watches, shoes, jewelry



"X" resort is more expensive so it must be better, let's go there instead!


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## Highway Star (Feb 19, 2014)

Stowe has the best skiing in the east.  Period.


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## timm (Feb 19, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Stowe has the best skiing in the east.  Period.



The prices are not high because the skiing is good. And there of plenty of other mountains whose skiing rivals Stowe but whose prices do not.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 19, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Stowe has the best skiing in the east.  Period.



Troll away.


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## snoseek (Feb 19, 2014)

Know this: once you get past the 100 mark, look out! We're somewhere around 120 on the peak days. This formula of cheap passes and uber expensive day tickets is going to have an effect on the future growth of the sport for sure. Vail resorts is leading the fight.


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## Tin (Feb 19, 2014)

Twism86 said:


> If Stowe goes over $100 they need a bubble chair lift like Mt. Snow!! I choose Mt. Snow over other southern VT ski areas for that reason alone. Ok, its the closest to me but why drive further and not have a bubble chair??? That thing is amazing.
> 
> I would pay for a Canyons ticket in Utah because they have one too.



Put the bong down.


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## skiNEwhere (Feb 19, 2014)

jimk said:


> I went to Aspen around New Year's time.  Great place, great mtns, great experience, but they don't want your/our business.  It's almost like they don't want day tripper/economy skiers.  At Snowmass there pretty much is no day lodge, at least not at The Snowmass Mall/Village where I entered the trail network.  I had to boot up outdoors and leave my stuff under the overhang of a building when I went out to ski.  Discount advance purchase price was $297 for three-day ticket.  However, if IRRC even Aspen sells a four or five ticket package that averages about $60 per day if bought early preseason.  They are also part of the ground breaking Mtn Collective deal from Liftopia which could get you down to about that price too.  What they really want though are the ski weekers/multiday skiers buying into the total vacation package deal.
> 
> Same with Vail Resorts.  Day ticket is triple digits, but season pass is ~400 to numerous big resorts.
> 
> These are bizarre times, but if you do your shopping you shouldn't have to deal with too many triple digit tickets.  The way I justified Aspen was to stay in a $65 motel 25 miles down valley and cook food in the microwave.


Aspen was selling a 4 pack at the Denver ski expo this year for around $240, but I didn't get it. It's pretty hard to get discounted lift tickets once the season begins for any aspen resort, and I looked pretty hard. Most of the deals on liftopia were tickets+loding combined, or lift ticket+dining. I ended up getting a military "discount" for $93 (+5 for RFID pass). But there was 3 feet of fresh snow so I didn't complain TOO much 
But yea, if you're gonna ski aspen, plan way ahead of time (Before ski season starts)


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 20, 2014)

timm said:


> The prices are not high because the skiing is good. And *there of plenty of other mountains whose skiing rivals Stowe *but whose prices do not.



In the east?  Nonsense.    I'd listen to arguments for a "few" could rival, but "plenty" is ridiculous.  IMO, I'd probably rank it #1 too.


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## snowmonster (Feb 20, 2014)

This thread on breaching the $100 mark comes out every year. The take-away from every edition of this thread is that the resort foolish enough to breach that barrier will hear a giant sucking sound as skiers exit for another ski area.

It's only a matter of time before Stowe offers a $100 ticket and, when that happens, given the terrain and snow it gets, I'd give them the honor. The funny thing about these threads about pricing is that, despite the price of their tickets, the high end resorts usually get pretty crowded. I've skied Stowe on their premium vacation days when presumably their ticket prices are highest (and some passes are blacked out) and that's when the crowds on the Forerunner are thickest. The longest lift line I have ever been in was in Whistler during Christmas vacation when tickets cost CAN$110. Wasn't there some photo going around the net recently about how the Christmas vacation lines at Vail were so long, you could actually see them from space? Point is, regardless of what we think, there's a market out there that's willing to bear the price and from the looks of it, that market is huge. In fact, I'll go on full-businessman mode here and say that the pricing of these places is inefficient. If you have a crowd when your price is at $110, then your tickets are probably still under-priced. Raise the price of the ticket to cut down on the crowds and you can probably strike a good balance between profit-making and crowd management. In fact, you should do this to maximize your use of your assets.

Lastly, you would think that, by the way these threads go, the most popular resorts would be the ones that charge the least and vice versa. But, in the X number of years that I've been posting here, I've never heard of Stowe, Whistler, Vail, Aspen or Deer Valley going begging for skiers. In fact, it's the opposite with places like Magic or Whaleback needing grassroots campaigns to drive skiers to those mountains.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 20, 2014)

I doubt breaking the $100 barrier would hurt Stowe in the least.  Clearly they are not trying to attract locals with their pricing policy.  

Charging $100 or more may actually be attractive to the demographic they cater to.  There are plenty of people out there who want everyone to know how expensive their lifestyle is.  The ticket price isn't really all that meaningful anyway, since a large portion of their market is likely ski-and-stay anyhow (speculation on my part).  A higher "retail" price on the lift ticket only adds to the perceived value of the stay.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bigbog (Feb 20, 2014)

Sure, what the market will bear.....:roll:  Can't argue with sales...the season passes are the way to go.


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## C-Rex (Feb 20, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> eeekkk.
> Can't we all get along out here on the internets?



What? Too much?


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## C-Rex (Feb 20, 2014)

I really wouldn't be surprised if Stowe breaks the $100 mark next year.  And I don't think it'll hurt them in the least.  Most of their target demographic won't bat an eye, and the rest of us will still go as long as we can find deals.

I think resorts are just trying to get people to commit ahead of time.  If walk up prices were cheap, people would plan a trip, and then if the weather didn't cooperate they'd just cancel.  But with high walk up prices, people are pushed to buy in advance, and then it doesn't matter what mother nature does, the resort already has your money.  Think about how many times you've heard people say they were going to go skiing and then changed their mind last minute?  It happens a lot.  Especially with the less dedicated crowd, I'd imagine, make up the largest portion of total sales.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 20, 2014)

One other incentive to increase ticket prices is that it can make ski and stay packages much more appealing because they can offer better deals by discounting in-house.  The larger ski resorts are no longer content to just sell you a lift ticket.  They want your hotel and restaurant revenue - and don't want to see that money being spent somewhere down the mountain road.  And if you buy a ski and stay package, you are much less likely to spend a day skiing at another mountain.  

Disney World is the master of this.  Each year they add some perk to staying at on-site hotels.  It used to be that a family spending a week in Orlando would typically visit Disney for four days and Universal Studios (or perhaps Sea World) for two days.  A LOT fewer people are doing that because Disney has aggressively created market forces that encourage people to spend their entire vacation on Disney property.  An example: The price difference between a four day Disney pass and a six day pass is $21.30.  A two day pass to Universal Studios is $146.99 for adults and $136.99 for children.  So if a family wants to spend four days at Disney and two days at Universal it will cost a family of four $481.38 more than if they just spent those six days in Disney parks.  Since the average guest spends about $75 per day on food and trinkets (just a guess) while in a park, it's well worth it for Disney to discount park admission for those extra days if they know that it will prevent guests from going elsewhere.  $75 + $10.15 per day is better than $0.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I really wouldn't be surprised if Stowe breaks the $100 mark next year. And I don't think it'll hurt them in the least. Most of their target demographic won't bat an eye, and the rest of us will still go as long as we can find deals.
> 
> I think resorts are just trying to get people to commit ahead of time. If walk up prices were cheap, people would plan a trip, and then if the weather didn't cooperate they'd just cancel. But with high walk up prices, people are pushed to buy in advance, and then it doesn't matter what mother nature does, the resort already has your money. Think about how many times you've heard people say they were going to go skiing and then changed their mind last minute? It happens a lot. Especially with the less dedicated crowd, I'd imagine, make up the largest portion of total sales.



Great point.


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## 4aprice (Feb 20, 2014)

When does Stowe start gobbling up some other areas and offering something like the epic pass out west?  I'd be on that in a heart beat.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

4aprice said:


> When does Stowe start gobbling up some other areas and offering something like the epic pass out west?  I'd be on that in a heart beat.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



I doubt it. Ski areas don't buy out other ski areas unless they have outside investors (ie Peak Resorts)


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 20, 2014)

They can start with their neighbor on the other side of Spruce Peak and get their "interconnect" back in operation.

If they invested like they have at Stowe, the Smuggs / Stowe Combo would be a pretty awesome setup.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

jimmywilson69 said:


> They can start with their neighbor on the other side of Spruce Peak and get their "interconnect" back in operation.
> 
> If they invested like they have at Stowe, the Smuggs / Stowe Combo would be a pretty awesome setup.



Good god man you speak blasphemy!  Saying that is like nails on a chalkboard. There was never an interconnect officially. The same trail that people used before will still get you back and forth they just had a better relationship in the past. The terrain may be similar but the clientele they target are very different. One is fancy and expensive and the other is bare bones and cost effective. It's like oil and water...they don't mix


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## 4aprice (Feb 20, 2014)

jimmywilson69 said:


> They can start with their neighbor on the other side of Spruce Peak and get their "interconnect" back in operation.
> 
> If they invested like they have at Stowe, the Smuggs / Stowe Combo would be a pretty awesome setup.



Exactly.  And I knew you hear the screams from MMW.(I understand).  Best ski complex east of the Mississippi.  They could start with an expansion up Morse and to the left Whiteface (Sterling Mountain).  I drool thinking about it.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

4aprice said:


> Exactly.  And I knew you hear the screams from MMW.(I understand).  Best ski complex east of the Mississippi.  They could start with an expansion up Morse and to the left Whiteface (Sterling Mountain).  I drool thinking about it.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Lol Yea I'm a little passionate about Smuggs and people love it because it's different than Stowe. I'm pretty Smuggs does very well for themselves so it's kind of a moot issue.

As far as upper Morse and Sterling....the bears can have it! What's so great about a natural hardwood trees with a steep pitch anyways?


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## 4aprice (Feb 20, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Lol Yea I'm a little passionate about Smuggs and people love it because it's different than Stowe. I'm pretty Smuggs does very well for themselves so it's kind of a moot issue.
> 
> As far as upper Morse and Sterling....the bears can have it!* What's so great about a natural hardwood trees with a steep pitch anyways?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

It won't happen. Someone else mentioned that it's protected bear habitat. I think that sufficiently scares enough people away and that's fine by me.


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## Bumpsis (Feb 20, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Why anyone pays ticket window prices these days are beyond me.



There are a few good reasons why people will opt to buy ticked window prices (and grumble about the price, rightfully so).
Buying on discount usually invloves prepaying and more than often, being commited to skiing/riding on the specific day(s) for which the ticket or voucher is valid.
Sure, there mey be savings, but they will mean a loss if you come up to the mountain on your specific ski day and find the major lifts on wind hold. Case in point: Today at Sugarloaf. With Skyline, Kingpine lifts off line, most people who wanted to ski the more interesting terrain, were forced to endure long lines at Superquad and the T-bar. If you're a walk up vs a prepaid discount skier, you had no choice of saying, "no thank, you"

Buying a package of ski and stay also forces you into the same kind of a choice. You already prepaid your lift ticket in one form of another and if the conditions are not to your liking, you're on the short end of the deal.
The same pattern has other premutations. Even buying 3 or 4 days worth of ski passes, also defines when it is when you're going to ski, even though you may not want to. If I'm skiing hard for a couple of days and get really exhaused, I may not really enjoy having to ski on the third day.

Sure, finding savings is possible in some cases but it always requires jumping through some hoops and possible risk of not having an optimal experince due to prepay (conditions, crowds, personal issues). I much rather have the flexibilty of picking the time when I want to ski.
 It is regretable that this option is the most expensive so I'm definitely not OK with high walk up prices and I don't find any solace with people saying that it's OK for ski areas to charge huge money for walk ups because "you can find a deal in 2 minutes" as somebody in this discussion wrote.


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## snoseek (Feb 20, 2014)

Over the Holiday week at Kirkwood and Heavenly I can vouch that the crowds were completely non-existent but I imagine that has more to do with blacked out local passes than anything else. Seriously, Heavenly on Sunday was more like a normal Thursday, tickets were selling for 115 that day.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

Bumpsis said:


> There are a few good reasons why people will opt to buy ticked window prices (and grumble about the price, rightfully so).
> Buying on discount usually invloves prepaying and more than often, being commited to skiing/riding on the specific day(s) for which the ticket or voucher is valid.
> Sure, there mey be savings, but they will mean a loss if you come up to the mountain on your specific ski day and find the major lifts on wind hold. Case in point: Today at Sugarloaf. With Skyline, Kingpine lifts off line, most people who wanted to ski the more interesting terrain, were forced to endure long lines at Superquad and the T-bar. If you're a walk up vs a prepaid discount skier, you had no choice of saying, "no thank, you"
> 
> ...



You can buy a lift ticket at 11 PM the night before on liftopia and still usually save around 10%.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 20, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> What? Too much?



Uncalled for & ignorant would be a better description.

Wouldn't expect anything less.


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## C-Rex (Feb 20, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Uncalled for & ignorant would be a better description.
> 
> Wouldn't expect anything less.



From a snowboarder, you mean?  What a typical, d-bag statement.  Far from ignorant, but I'll agree with over reaction.  Maybe stop trolling over semantics and we'll get along.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 20, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> From a snowboarder, you mean?



No, just an overall douch


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 20, 2014)

Man Steamboat1 you have quite a few serious haters. Did you run over their dog?


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## steamboat1 (Feb 20, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Man Steamboat1 you have quite a few serious haters.



I guess you're in the mix.


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## Bumpsis (Feb 20, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> You can buy a lift ticket at 11 PM the night before on liftopia and still usually save around 10%.



Not for Sugarloaf and not during Mass School Vacation week (I checked).


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## dlague (Feb 20, 2014)

Bumpsis said:


> There are a few good reasons why people will opt to buy ticked window prices (and grumble about the price, rightfully so).
> Buying on discount usually invloves prepaying and more than often, being commited to skiing/riding on the specific day(s) for which the ticket or voucher is valid.
> Sure, there mey be savings, but they will mean a loss if you come up to the mountain on your specific ski day and find the major lifts on wind hold. Case in point: Today at Sugarloaf. With Skyline, Kingpine lifts off line, most people who wanted to ski the more interesting terrain, were forced to endure long lines at Superquad and the T-bar. If you're a walk up vs a prepaid discount skier, you had no choice of saying, "no thank, you"
> 
> ...



I disagree look at my signature and I have always paid 50% or less!  I have plenty of options and it is never a problem!  I find the deals easy to work with and ski decent resorts!  Paying full price is craziness!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> *Ski areas don't buy out other ski areas unless they have outside investors (ie Peak Resorts)*



Or unless they have "free money" (ie Jay Peak).



MadMadWorld said:


> *Someone else mentioned that it's protected bear habitat.*



It is?  I never knew that.  WTH does that slice of Vermont need a "protected bear habitat" to begin with?  There's plenty of them and they're not even remotely threatened/endangered.


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## Bumpsis (Feb 21, 2014)

dlague said:


> I disagree look at my signature and I have always paid 50% or less! I have plenty of options and it is never a problem! I find the deals easy to work with and ski decent resorts! Paying full price is craziness!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I don't know what it is that you actually disagree with in my post. Perhaps you missed my main point which was that in most instances (if not all), being able to buy on discount involves a prepay and you're stuck with it for better or worse. I'm sure that you can find deals, I find them too but not for this current week at Sugarloaf.

I did look at your signature and I did not see Sugarloaf  for days of 2/16 - 2/21 listed among your trips. So, you can call me crazy or stupid for paying list, but you're not walking in my shoes on this one.

It's like I did not have the chance to buy some Liftopia tickets for this current week at Sugarloaf. They were available a good couple of weeks before my arrival here and the savings were about 30% or so. But if I had bought, I would have been stuck with at least a couple of days when the weather on the mountain was just brutal and there were significant wind holds, which made for less than optimal skiing experience (long lines and brutal windchills). And today - rain. Not my cup of tea. if I had prepaid tickets, it would have been a loss, regardless of savings. I just would not ski.

I don't enjoy forking over a small fortune for walk up tickets but being able to choose the most optimal times and conditions to ski, outweights the gamble of being compelled to ski in crappy weather or endure long waits when lifts are limited due to wind holds.


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## abc (Feb 21, 2014)

Bumpsis said:


> But if I had bought, I would have been stuck with at least a couple of days when the weather on the mountain was just brutal and there were significant wind holds, which made for less than optimal skiing experience (long lines and brutal windchills). And today - rain. Not my cup of tea. if I had prepaid tickets, it would have been a loss, regardless of savings. I just would not ski.
> 
> I don't enjoy forking over a small fortune for walk up tickets but being able to choose the most optimal times and conditions to ski, outweights the gamble of being compelled to ski in crappy weather or endure long waits when lifts are limited due to wind holds.


Economy 101, my friend. 

You want flexibility? You pay extra for it!

You want to ski ONLY the days with optimal condition? You pay for it! If the other guy gets 2 day for the price of your 1 day, one of his days were raining! Well, that's fair as daylight!

Instead of charging extra on bluebird day after a fresh dump, and discount when it's icy glaze, the mountain charges the same from day to day, but makes advance purchase at deep discount. It ends up with the same result. Those who don't mind skiing crappy conditions pay little and those who pick and choose the best condition pay a lot more!


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## steamboat1 (Feb 21, 2014)

I can pick & chose my days with my pass & other discount coupons. Other discounts are offered on only specific days but I don't have to take advantage of them if I don't want to. I can make a decision that day whether I want to or not.


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## Edd (Feb 21, 2014)

Bumpsis said:


> It's like I did not have the chance to buy some Liftopia tickets for this current week at Sugarloaf. They were available a good couple of weeks before my arrival here and the savings were about 30% or so. But if I had bought, I would have been stuck with at least a couple of days when the weather on the mountain was just brutal and there were significant wind holds, which made for less than optimal skiing experience (long lines and brutal windchills). And today - rain. Not my cup of tea. if I had prepaid tickets, it would have been a loss, regardless of savings. I just would not ski.
> 
> I don't enjoy forking over a small fortune for walk up tickets but being able to choose the most optimal times and conditions to ski, outweights the gamble of being compelled to ski in crappy weather or endure long waits when lifts are limited due to wind holds.



This.  AZ summits aside, buying tickets ahead at the Loaf is a risk I wouldn't take.


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## mlkrgr (Feb 21, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> I really wouldn't be surprised if Stowe breaks the $100 mark next year.  And I don't think it'll hurt them in the least.  Most of their target demographic won't bat an eye, and the rest of us will still go as long as we can find deals.
> 
> I think resorts are just trying to get people to commit ahead of time.  If walk up prices were cheap, people would plan a trip, and then if the weather didn't cooperate they'd just cancel.  But with high walk up prices, people are pushed to buy in advance, and then it doesn't matter what mother nature does, the resort already has your money.  Think about how many times you've heard people say they were going to go skiing and then changed their mind last minute?  It happens a lot.  Especially with the less dedicated crowd, I'd imagine, make up the largest portion of total sales.



I wouldn't either. There's enough discounts around even for Stowe. They've had 3 buses that have gone up to Stowe for $67 (bus and lift ticket included) on Nacski.com with promo code HAXNS (or $77 regular price). Because of the bus pricing, Stowe ends up being a better deal for me than many smaller resorts including Smuggs, MRG, Bolton, etc. once you count in transit costs, and especially when weekend pricing is considered.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 21, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Or unless they have "free money" (ie Jay Peak).
> 
> 
> 
> It is?  I never knew that.  WTH does that slice of Vermont need a "protected bear habitat" to begin with?  There's plenty of them and they're not even remotely threatened/endangered.



That's the word. Seems pretty ridiculous to me too.


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## billski (Feb 21, 2014)

Stowe raises it's rates, on the average, every third year.  They went up 6 to 98 this season. after two years at 92 and three years at 89.  They intend to add hundreds of new condo units over the next few years. They'll be breaking the barrier in '15-16 or later.  BTW, Stowe is planning an indoor water/sports park similar to JPR.

If I look at this based on the raw basis of the skiing terrain and service, comparing Vail to Stowe is like night and day.  After having skied Stowe for nearly 30 years, when I hit Vail for the first time, my on only descriptive word was "vast".   Would I pay $100 to ski at Vail?  Given the experience, terrain and upslope ability, the answer would be "yes".  (but I never have.)  Some people are paying 80 to ski at Disneyland/world (barring discounts).

What we have to remember about ticket pricing is that it's pure retail pricing.  Mark it up to mark it down.  You can always mark down, and let people think they are getting a deal.  You can never mark it up.    Nobody ever pays hotel rack rates.  Many clothing brands are never, ever intended to be sold at MSRP.  Many clothes hit the stores already down 30%.

The other thought expressed here - the resort wants you to stay multiple days is tantamount.  There are economies of scale for them - getting you there is the hardest part.  It costs less for them to harbor and entertain you each day you are there.  Of course being a captive audience never hurt.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 21, 2014)

billski said:


> Stowe raises it's rates, on the average, every third year.  They went up 6 to 98 this season. after two years at 92 and three years at 89.  They intend to add hundreds of new condo units over the next few years. They'll be breaking the barrier in '15-16 or later.  BTW, Stowe is planning an indoor water/sports park similar to JPR.
> 
> If I look at this based on the raw basis of the skiing terrain and service, comparing Vail to Stowe is like night and day.  After having skied Stowe for nearly 30 years, when I hit Vail for the first time, my on only descriptive word was "vast".   Would I pay $100 to ski at Vail?  Given the experience, terrain and upslope ability, the answer would be "yes".  (but I never have.)  Some people are paying 80 to ski at Disneyland/world (barring discounts).
> 
> ...



What is Disney's uphill policy?


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## VTKilarney (Feb 22, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> What is Disney's uphill policy?



You have to keep your hands inside the car and your seatbelt buckled.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 22, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Or unless they have "free money" (ie Jay Peak).
> 
> 
> 
> It is?  I never knew that.  WTH does that slice of Vermont need a "protected bear habitat" to begin with?  There's plenty of them and they're not even remotely threatened/endangered.




It's the Beech trees in the area.  You go above and to lookers left of Morse Highlands and there's on of the largest stands of Beech trees in the State.  Beech nuts are a critical food supply for Black Bear in the fall to help them fatten up and survive in the spring when food is scarce.  Because Beech trees are very susceptible to disease, the state doesn't take the conservation of them lightly.

IIRC from the surveying I participated with in the area, development is restricted within 500 yards of this particular stand.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 22, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> It's the Beech trees in the area.  You go above and to lookers left of Morse Highlands and there's on of the largest stands of Beech trees in the State.  Beech nuts are a critical food supply for Black Bear in the fall to help them fatten up and survive in the spring when food is scarce.  Because Beech trees are very susceptible to disease, the state doesn't take the conservation of them lightly.



So, is the area protected for the trees or for the bear?  Black Bear have a massively diverse diet and would probably be fine without the trees.   Then again, beech trees arent threatened either, so I'm not really sure I understand this.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 22, 2014)

I think we need to focus on what's important.....Lots of scary bears up there and the snow sucks. If you see me heading in there don't follow!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 22, 2014)

Beech trees are highly susceptible to disease.  So, healthy stands of this size and quality are not to be removed.  It's an unusually large stand and it's presence results in one of the highest concentrations of Black Bear in the state.  They are there because of those trees as Beech nuts are one of their preferred and most nutritious foods to eat before they den.  

When we were doing the survey work (UVM School of Natural Resources), Smuggs was only looking to expand Cross Country terrain in the area and the State said no.  Is what it is.


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## skiNEwhere (Feb 22, 2014)

billski said:


> What we have to remember about ticket pricing is that it's pure retail pricing.  Mark it up to mark it down.  You can always mark down, and let people think they are getting a deal.  You can never mark it up.



Yup, exactly. 

And that's the same reason retailers have made black friday look so appealing.


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## The Sneak (Feb 22, 2014)

Our lift tickets at Vail on MLK day were a breezy $139 each.

And lol at Stowe having the best skiing... The Loaf is king of the east, period.


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## skiNEwhere (Feb 22, 2014)

The Sneak said:


> Our lift tickets at Vail on MLK day were a breezy $139 each.



And you know what? Why not? Vail gets so packed on Holidays, they could probably charge $200 a lift tickets and still be crowded.


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## abc (Feb 22, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> And you know what? Why not? Vail gets so packed on Holidays, they could probably charge $200 a lift tickets and still be crowded.


Everywhere will be crowded on holidays because of school schedule. 

The irony is, many a family when their budget gets tight, they'll typically cut back on skiing during non-holidays.


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## x10003q (Feb 24, 2014)

Stratton just broke the $100 barrier - for 3 days :smile:

$108 on Liftopia for Sat/Sun/Mon - 4th weekend in March. That's $36/day for a place that wears the "overpriced" crown.

If you buy on the mountain the price is $222 or $74/day. Stratton does offer what looks like a slightly more expensive Liftopia online advanced purchase on the Stratton site.


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## SnowRock (Feb 24, 2014)

If you compare Stowe on the east coast to full freight at some of the bumps in the Pokes I think its a deal. Not to mention the four runner starts spinning at 7:30 am. You can get a ton for your money if you get up early. And lastly, that Vermont Travel Club card that I learned about on here is fantastic. As someone who makes it up to stowe 3 or 4 times a season that thing saves me a ton of loot I gladly spend on beer and food.


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## Highway Star (Feb 24, 2014)

timm said:


> The prices are not high because the skiing is good. And there of plenty of other mountains whose skiing rivals Stowe but whose prices do not.



Prices are high because they have the best skiing in the east, AND they have a limited amount of lift and trail capacity.  Simple supply vs. demand indicates they can charge more.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 24, 2014)

One advantage to Liftopia is that ski areas can price their product more like airlines do - taking full advantage of demand.  I've always wondered weekends are typically priced the same even though some of them must be busier than others.  I've noticed that with Liftopia some ski areas really do tailor price to actual demand.  It's also a good way to predict how crowded the mountain will be.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 25, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Disney World is the master of this.  Each year they add some perk to staying at on-site hotels.  It used to be that a family spending a week in Orlando would typically visit Disney for four days and Universal Studios (or perhaps Sea World) for two days.  A LOT fewer people are doing that because Disney has aggressively created market forces that encourage people to spend their entire vacation on Disney property.  An example: The price difference between a four day Disney pass and a six day pass is $21.30.  A two day pass to Universal Studios is $146.99 for adults and $136.99 for children.  So if a family wants to spend four days at Disney and two days at Universal it will cost a family of four $481.38 more than if they just spent those six days in Disney parks.  Since the average guest spends about $75 per day on food and trinkets (just a guess) while in a park, *it's well worth it for Disney to discount park admission* for those extra days if they know that it will prevent guests from going elsewhere.  $75 + $10.15 per day is better than $0.



Well, they just raised their ticket prices today.



> _*The Magic Kingdom is raising its prices another $4 to $99 for a day pass  *at its Orlando park. *Its other Orlando parks (Epcot, Animal Kingdom,  and Hollywood Studios) are also seeing a $4 price hike.* A decade ago,  Magic Kingdom's admission cost less than $50_.


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## billski (Feb 25, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Prices are high because they have the best skiing in the east, AND they have a limited amount of lift and trail capacity.  Simple supply vs. demand indicates they can charge more.



Not sure I'm following you.  Limited capacity does not constrain demand in this case.  There are plenty of people who want to ski Stowe.  It's the other way around - pricing constrains demand.  They don't have a ticket limit policy, so there is no constraint on supply.  A staffer told me last fall that they believe everyone wins when the daily attendance is about 4,000.  They did have a day when they hit 6,000 and the mountain handled it well.


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## timm (Feb 26, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Prices are high because they have the best skiing in the east, AND they have a limited amount of lift and trail capacity.  Simple supply vs. demand indicates they can charge more.



Supply and demand isn't the be all, end all of pricing. It is a 50,000 foot view, not an exact specific description of how prices are determined in any situation. Prestige pricing exists.


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