# AlpineZone Challenge 2012: Win Smith of Sugarbush



## Nick (Nov 6, 2012)

Win Smith, President of Sugarbush, has agreed to participate in the 2012 AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge! 

The AlpineZone Challenge is your chance to offer up questions, suggestions or praise to the people who run the mountains in the northeast. For more information on the challenge itself, please see the stickied post at the top of the forum. 

We will pick ten of the questions asked here and submit them for review and response, and post them in the Challenge area when complete! 

Caveats: we may edit/change your question for grammar, tone, or something similar. Questions may be merged. If we don't get to all the questions, we will encourage followup from the representatives, but no promises. 

Please be respectful as well to those answering questions - please refrain from asking specifics about skier visit numbers, financials, demographic information, etc. as these may be confidential to the mountain. 

Sugarbush Profile

2011 AlpineZone Challenge Results
2009 AlpineZone Challenge Results
2007 AlpineZone Challenge Results
2006 AlpineZone Challenge Results
2005 AlpineZone Challenge Results
2004 AlpineZone Challenge Results


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 7, 2012)

I don't have any questions for Win but I will take to opportunity to commend Sugarbush for the excellent spring skiing. Too many resorts start closing terrain whenever there's a bare patch but I've been able to ski Casterock and Sugarbush woods late into the season where the terrain was half bare.

This is awesome for die-hards and those who believe it should be your choice to risk wrecking your skis if you're willing to ski it. Sugarbush is my spot for spring skiing and will be as long as this continues.

Here's a question, actually. Sugarbush (South) tickets are among the most expensive passes in New England. Will you work with Liftopia to offer more significant discounts to those willing to buy tickets in advance? I have not seen much in terms of Liftopia discounts for Sugarbush in recent years. Mt. Ellen is a fair price lift ticket at least.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 7, 2012)

Win I will echo what I am sure many here will, that Sugarbush is a really special place.  I hope to get back there in the spring again this year.

My question is with last years snowless winter, are there any plans for sugarbush to add capacity to their snowmaking system?


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 7, 2012)

Sugarbush has been my vacation home location for 25 years and, obviously I've seen many changes during this time period.  Suffice it to say that the current ownership is some of the finest in the business and really cares about the skiers, the mountain and the Mad River Valley.  Thank you Win!

My questions are somewhat general in nature, but here goes:

1.  I understand the logic behind building additional real estate to support the business in general, but after the new condos are built, what will your on-mountain focus be to continue to add/improve to the skiing?  Additional snowmaking and/or capcity?  Additional lifts or terrain?  The area above Inverness makes my mouth water and seeing the old lift line that was never used would greatly add to terrain.

2.  While not mountain specific....have you given any thought to rearranging or reconfiguring the seating in the Gate House lodge?  During busy times, the tables are only half filled, but access to them is always so cluttered with the plastic chairs?  Perhaps some benches and or fixed seating might improve capacity?

3.  Any plans to develop the base around Mt Ellen?  This is my starting point most days; (especially with family due to the easy access), but think there is so much potential.

Thanks Win.  Also, thanks for the incredible ticket discounts offerred.  With a bit of creativity and planning, a family of 4 can actually get a lot of skiing in during the season without having to commit to a pass (which more often than not I find more difficult to use).


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## thetrailboss (Nov 7, 2012)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Win I will echo what I am sure many here will, that Sugarbush is a really special place. I hope to get back there in the spring again this year.
> 
> My question is with last years snowless winter, are there any plans for sugarbush to add capacity to their snowmaking system?



I agree with this comment and add that we left Vermont last year and I know that this is a point that I did not agree with at first, but after very late starts in 2010 and 2011, it became clear to me that while there is some great work with adding HKDs and replacing pipe, they just don't have the compressor power to quickly build base or recover. It was painful in 2010 to see them struggle to get open. I know that folks have commented on this and Win has been very quick to disagree, I think the issue is that they need more water and air pumping capacity, which is not cheap and probably not in line with their plans right now. The long season was what made it for us. In 2010-2011 we lost three weekends at the front end, and at least three or so on the back end, which was a lot of skiing that we did not get. I know that you can't control the weather, but other places were open. It just seems that they have either given up on that or are pursuing a different plan. It's not the Sugarbush we came to know. Hopefully they are working on improving that. 

I also don't understand why they are adamant on not doing early season skiing at Ellen or extending its season when it has the best aspect. 

Just my thoughts as a skier.  They've done an amazing job over the long term, but the skiing product just is not improving or is relying too much on natural snow that may or may not come when you want it.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 7, 2012)

The addition of the new Gatehouse lodge hasn't really alleviated the problem of overcrowding on busy days. There seems to be so much wasted space in the cafeteria. Are there any plans to reconfigure the cafeteria area so that additional seating could be added? 
On the same subject of overcrowding in the lodge there appears to be ample room to add an additional level above the existing seating area. Are there any plans to take advantage of that space?
Now that lift tickets are no longer sold in the Gatehouse lodge are there any plans to take advantage of that space? The changing & storage area is insufficient on busy days & could be easily expanded utilizing that area I would think.
I ask these questions because out of all the areas I ski Sugarbush is the only area where I regularly see people sitting on the floor eating there lunch because of lack of sufficient seating. Otherwise the mountain is terrific.


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## xlr8r (Nov 7, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> The addition of the new Gatehouse lodge hasn't really alleviated the problem of overcrowding on busy days. There seems to be so much wasted space in the cafeteria. Are there any plans to reconfigure the cafeteria area so that additional seating could be added?
> On the same subject of overcrowding in the lodge there appears to be ample room to add an additional level above the existing seating area. Are there any plans to take advantage of that space?
> Now that lift tickets are no longer sold in the Gatehouse lodge are there any plans to take advantage of that space? The changing & storage area is insufficient on busy days & could be easily expanded utilizing that area I would think.
> I ask these questions because out of all the areas I ski Sugarbush is the only area where I regularly see people sitting on the floor eating there lunch because of lack of sufficient seating. Otherwise the mountain is terrific.



On the topic of relieving crowding in the base areas, are there any plans to offer additional food options on mountain?  Because nearly everybody is forced to go down to either base area for lunch.  Any chance that Glen House and or Allyn's Lodge could be expanded to be full cafeterias or restaurants?  The options in those buildings are limited and seem to act more as warming huts than lodges.  Also the location where the Gatehouse, North Lynx, and Slidebrook Chairs converge would be make a great location for a new on mountain lodge and restaurant.


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## castleman003 (Nov 8, 2012)

I agree last year I went there in the warmest day of spring skiing and there was a trail where only 30% the trail was actually skiable


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## HowieT2 (Nov 9, 2012)

xlr8r said:


> On the topic of relieving crowding in the base areas, are there any plans to offer additional food options on mountain?  Because nearly everybody is forced to go down to either base area for lunch.  Any chance that Glen House and or Allyn's Lodge could be expanded to be full cafeterias or restaurants?  The options in those buildings are limited and seem to act more as warming huts than lodges.  Also the location where the Gatehouse, North Lynx, and Slidebrook Chairs converge would be make a great location for a new on mountain lodge and restaurant.



Alyn's lodge doesnt have water so its limited to selling packaged goods.
but i agree that the area by nl and slidebrook would be a good spot for a new lodge/cafeteria if alyn's can't be expanded and upgraded.


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## teleo (Nov 11, 2012)

I like the idea of full mid-mountain food at Allyns or the top of GHQ to alleviate crowding at GH caf and distribute skiers on busy days.  Top of GHQ could potentially be used for weddings since GHQ is already used for weddings.  Although it doesn't do much for apres. So for questions:

1. Is it even possible to get permits for a full service lodge mid mountain at either location?  If so, would/have you considered it?
2. With the expansion of residences at LP, are there any plans to upgrade SHARC?


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## VB (Nov 12, 2012)

Just wanted to say quickly that I believe Sugarbush to be a great mountain that has a lot to offer for beginners to advanced level skiers.  If one mountain is full the other is pretty much guareneteed to be a great place to go


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 28, 2012)

Some of the lift infrastructure is quite old at Sugarbush.  What are your long range plans to replace/repair lifts at both areas?


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 29, 2012)

One more quick question before this opportunity to ask questions closes:

Are there any plans to add additional webcams at other locations?  Us flatlanders live and die by being able to view images of our favorite mountain and having one or more webcams at areas such as top of Gate House or top of North Ridge looking out towards upper FIS (what a view that would be) would not only be helpful but also a great marketing opportunity.

Thanks for all you do Win!


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## kabacrunch (Dec 7, 2012)

Alyn's lodge is so tired


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## Nick (Jan 8, 2013)

any others, sorry guys, I've been delayed on getting these done...


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## xwhaler (Jan 22, 2013)

How has the For 20's pass been received this season? Clearly you guys recognize that this segment is valuable to the long term growth/viability of Sugarbush. Do you plan to keep it going forward?
I believe you guys were the 1st in the East to offer this....I noticed Okemo/Sunapee offered a similar pass this year. Would you be able to speculate at all if other mtns may start to offer this type of pass?

Also, any plans for a Spring pass this year?


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## gonesquatchin (Feb 4, 2013)

*My 2 Cents*

Win, I'd like to echo the sentiments of others who have commended your ownership group on the changes you've made since taking over.  As you continue to develop SB in the coming years, I have a few thoughts/questions/suggestions.  I'll focus on Mt. Ellen since I spend most of my time there and becasue Lincoln Peak has been pretty well covered above.

1)  Trees.  First, thanks for the continued development of tree skiing at SB. Let's not open it TOO much (especially at the trail edges), if you catch my drift.  It's better if you leave something for exploration.

2)  Mt. Ellen Base Lodge.  Are there any plans at present to improve Mt. Ellen base area?  Is this something that depends on completing the sales of Lincoln Peak units, given your recent investments there?

3)  Upper Inverness Pod.  Yup, here's the annual please, please, please, open the Upper Inverness Pod.  You don't even need to cut any new trails (except maybe for whatever Patrol and Mtn. Ops need).  For the investment in one chair and some tree work you open an pretty expansive swath of some of the best terrain at SB.  Given the inability to expand into the Slidebrook, this is the next best opportunity.

4)  Mt. Ellen.  Have you considered selling Mt. Ellen by itself?  It seems there's untapped value in Mt. Ellen and you might not be in a position to realize that value until the Lincoln Peak expansion is done.  Selling it would be a way to get some cash out of the asset now.  I've often wondered if it wouldn't be a better fit for MRG (assuming they wanted it and could put the financing together to buy it).  Geographically it certainly would be a more logical fit, especially if the Upper Inverness Pod ever came to being.  Selling Mt. Ellen would also allow you sell the Slidebrook Express assets and pull out some additional value (sell part of it to the buyer to use for the Upper Inverness Chair!).

5)  For Both Areas - On Mountain Food Service.  Is there any way to set up lift line vending?  The lines probably aren't long enough for this at Mt. Ellen, but I've always thought it would be great to be able to grab a water or bar (or even a burger if you wanted to go beyond packaged goods) from a stand near the end of the Castlerock line.  Easy revenue for you, happy full belly for me.  Maybe it's a litter containment problem?

6)  For Both Areas - Deck Viewing.  Is there any way to set up a bump run and/or half pipe that could be watched from the decks at Lincoln and Mt. Ellen?  Sitting on a sunny deck with a cold one in your hands and watching people tackle a nice bump run or the half pipe on a March or April afternoon, maybe with some music piped in, is a quintessential alpine experience SB doesn't really offer.  I think this could be done from the deck of the Valley House Lodge/Wunderbar and the Mt. Ellen Base lodge without too much effort and would create a great atmosphere.

7)  Summer Activity.  Have you looked into making SB into a mountain biking mecca or some other way to market SB for the summer months (zip lines and weddings notwithstanding)?  The Valley in general really could use a little summer pick me up.  I'm sure the local businesses would agree.  I think it would help market those Lincoln Peak units too!


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## xwhaler (Feb 26, 2013)

1 more I just thought of
Wishful thinking here but we can dream. Would Sugarbush consider working with Nick to put together a 2nd Summit each yr similar in value/scope as the Loaf trip? 
I think the MRV would be an awesome place for a large group and may be more conducive to those coming from NY/CT/NJ as compared to the Loaf. I'd be at both of course but you know thinking of the other guy!


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## ScottySkis (Feb 26, 2013)

xwhaler said:


> 1 more I just thought of
> Wishful thinking here but we can dream. Would Sugarbush consider working with Nick to put together a 2nd Summit each yr similar in value/scope as the Loaf trip?
> I think the MRV would be an awesome place for a large group and may be more conducive to those coming from NY/CT/NJ as compared to the Loaf. I'd be at both of course but you know thinking of the other guy!


+1000: I could make a three day weekend to the Bush, if I am going to Maine for 4 days, I could just fly to SLC, PLEASE make this happen every years.


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## Nick (Feb 26, 2013)

I am so overdue with these ...shame on me


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## gonesquatchin (Nov 18, 2013)

*What happened to the Alpine Zone Challenge?*



Nick said:


> I am so overdue with these ...shame on me



Did this ever happen?


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