# Wheel / tire bolt sizing



## deadheadskier (Dec 9, 2009)

Is there an easy way to figure out if wheels are compatible with different vehicles?

Looking for a set of wheels/snows for the wife's car.  I've found some pretty good deals on craigslist.

I'm specifically trying to determine if a set of Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3s that came off a 2004 Acura TI will fit our 2004 Mazda 3 Hatch.  The tire size of 205/55/r16 is what's recommended for our vehicle in the 16 inch.
I'm specifically trying to determine if the wheel patterns are the same.  

The person selling them is over an hour away and I'm not interested in heading over there if it's unlikely that they fit.


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## WJenness (Dec 9, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Is there an easy way to figure out if wheels are compatible with different vehicles?
> 
> Looking for a set of wheels/snows for the wife's car.  I've found some pretty good deals on craigslist.
> 
> ...



You need to know the bolt pattern, but that should be pretty easy to find by going to tirerack.com and plugging in both cars info...

Actually, I was curious and did it.

2004 Acura TL: 
Size: 16X6.5 (4)
Bolt Pattern: 5-114

2004 Mazda 3 hatch:
Size: 16X6.5 (4)
Bolt Pattern: 5-114

So yeah, looks good...

Check it yourself, as I guesed on some questions (auto/manual etc.) that shouldn't change the outcome, but you never know.

-w


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## bigbog (Dec 9, 2009)

Maybe I've grown too accustomed to driving a 4wd, but...in addition..if the tires you'll go with, which because of space(referred to as _Backspacing_, at least I THINK that's what is meant) when the wheels/tires are turned will clear both to the rear and to the inside.  Outside can easily be chopped/sanded/fender-added..etc...  The newer, efficient cars are really cut close to limit tiresize...:evil:  Sure wish they wouldn't be doing that...but downsizing in wheels..is yes, an alternative..to get more aggressive a tire on...I Would Think wouldn't be that much a deal if the total diameter would be pretty much the same!...?  I think, if one were to downsize in wheel diameter..I'd quickly follow up with alignment...but if the total diameter isn't radical..the engine/gearing shouldn't have much difficulty. 

$.01


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## Geoff (Dec 9, 2009)

bigbog said:


> Maybe I've grown too accustomed to driving a 4wd, but...in addition..if the tires you'll go with, which because of space(referred to as _Backspacing_, at least I THINK that's what is meant) when the wheels/tires are turned will clear both to the rear and to the inside.  Outside can easily be chopped/sanded/fender-added..etc...  The newer, efficient cars are really cut close to limit tiresize...:evil:  Sure wish they wouldn't be doing that...but downsizing in wheels..is yes, an alternative..to get more aggressive a tire on...I Would Think wouldn't be that much a deal if the total diameter would be pretty much the same!...?  I think, if one were to downsize in wheel diameter..I'd quickly follow up with alignment...but if the total diameter isn't radical..the engine/gearing shouldn't have much difficulty.
> 
> $.01



I think the word is "offset".   I'd think most Japanese cars would have interchangable rims since they all use the same sources for parts.

You can and should use smaller wheels for a winter application.   You want thicker sidewalls to deal with all the pot holes.   For a small car like a Mazda 3, you really don't need to go narrower.   On a car with wide performance tires, you want to go narrower so the tire doesn't float up on the snow.   The key is that you don't want to change the diameter of the tire very much.  If you google "tire size calculator", there are several online calculators.   From that, you can figure out the correct tire to use for a smaller rim and a narrower width.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 9, 2009)

The seller has agreed to let me pick them up and bring them home to try on the wife's car tonight.  If they fit, I think I got a really good deal.  $395 for half season used Dunlop snows with steel rims.


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## WJenness (Dec 9, 2009)

That is a pretty good deal...

Let us know how it works out.

-w


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## Puck it (Dec 9, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> The seller has agreed to let me pick them up and bring them home to try on the wife's car tonight. If they fit, I think I got a really good deal. $395 for half season used Dunlop snows with steel rims.


 
Not bad reviews.  

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...e&partnum=055HR6WS3D&fromCompare1=yes&wTire=3

I am not a big fan of Dunlop.  I had Grandtreks on the FJ and were fine the first year but were not good in the snow the second year.  I did get 50K out of them though.  I have Toyo AT Open Country now.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 9, 2009)

In general, I'm not ultra picky, the wife even less.  I have Firestone winterforces on my car and they did just fine today.  They've got about 20K miles on them and I think I should be able to get at least another 20K more out of them.


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## Philpug (Dec 9, 2009)

I have bought (and sold) the last couple of sets of snows I have used....great deals to be found. I will do the same when I get my Jetta.


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## madman (Dec 9, 2009)

Got a pair of rims and tires off a Volvo 850 and tried to mount them on my Daughters 940 but the rims did not clear the Disc Calipers. They were almost socked down before they hit and it would have been easy to crank them down and do damage if someone was to mount and drive without checking first.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 11, 2009)

Had the tires mounted yesterday, they fit fine.  I wonder if most Asian manufacturers use the 5 x 114.3 bolt pattern on sedans.

Looking forward to the next snow storm to test out their performance


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## Philpug (Dec 11, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Had the tires mounted yesterday, they fit fine.  I wonder if most Asian manufacturers use the 5 x 114.3 bolt pattern on sedans.
> 
> Looking forward to the next snow storm to test out their performance



Subies are 5x100, Some Toyotas are 5x112


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## deadheadskier (Dec 11, 2009)

like cell phone power adapters, wouldn't it be much easier if they all had to have the same configuration?

I mean really.  What's the benefit of a 5x100 vs. a 5x112 vs. a 5x114.3?

I could see how a larger truck might benefit from having more bolts, but within classes they all should be the same in my opinion.   

The only reason why the guy I bought the tires off of was selling them is because when he sold his Acura TL sedan, the buyer didn't want the snows and they didn't fit on his new BMW sedan.


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## ctenidae (Dec 11, 2009)

Added annoyance wrinkle these days is tire pressure sensors.
Bought snows from a guy who had them on a 2-year old Merc, from before sensors were mandated. On nice rims, and everything. Now, I'm going to have to go all winter with the tire sensor warning light on. Or spend $400 on sensors, and have them installed in the rims. Probably not worth it.


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## roark (Dec 11, 2009)

tire sensors are one of the dumbest "features" on cars these days. I've yet to have a vehicle with them and will avoid like the plague. "Maintence required" lights are almost as bad. (ETA but can usually be reset pretty easily - just annoying)


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## bvibert (Dec 11, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> like cell phone power adapters, wouldn't it be much easier if they all had to have the same configuration?
> 
> I mean really.  What's the benefit of a 5x100 vs. a 5x112 vs. a 5x114.3?
> 
> ...



I think VW's are pretty much all 5x112 now, but there was a time when some models were 5x100 (Jettas and Golfs), while others were 5x112 (Passats).  There's other factors to take into account too, like mentioned above; the offset will differ from manufacturer to manufacturer.  It may not differ enough to notice a difference, but it could cause rubbing on the body work or suspension components.  Even without rubbing a different offset wheel could affect the handling, or in extreme cases the life span of wheel bearings and suspension components.  There's also the center bore of the wheel to consider, it should fit nicely over the hub of the car to keep the wheel centered while tightening the lug nuts.


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## bvibert (Dec 11, 2009)

roark said:


> tire sensors are one of the dumbest "features" on cars these days.



Agreed!


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## Glenn (Dec 11, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Agreed!




x2.


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## ctenidae (Dec 11, 2009)

roark said:


> tire sensors are one of the dumbest "features" on cars these days. I've yet to have a vehicle with them and will avoid like the plague. "Maintence required" lights are almost as bad. (ETA but can usually be reset pretty easily - just annoying)



Too bad they're required on all new cars.

The ones on mine are annoying, since it's just warning/no warning. My wife's SUV reads each wheel seperately and tells you the pressure on each one. Which is useful, since it lets me know which tire she hit a curb with this time.


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## mlctvt (Dec 11, 2009)

Get them! Dunlop Wintersport M3s are the best snow tires I've run. I've had three models of Blizzaks and the Dunlops are just so much better on dry and wet roads and they give up very little in snow performance to the Blizzaks. I just couldn't stand the Blizzak's dry road perfomance, they were just too squishy and handled like crap. The Wintersport M3 is also the favorite choice on all the car forums I follow. BMW, Infiniti, Subaru.
I currently run them on my '05 Subaru Legacy GT wagon and my wife's '05 WRX.
Best choice for southern New Englanders who drive on dry roads most of the time but need a snow tire when traveling north to deep snow too.


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## mlctvt (Dec 11, 2009)

bvibert said:


> There's also the center bore of the wheel to consider, it should fit nicely over the hub of the car to keep the wheel centered while tightening the lug nuts.



Yes, make sure you know whether the car is Hub-centric or Lug-centric. If it's hub centric you'll need the same size bore in the center of the wheel. This can sometimes be changed on aftermarket rims by using different size hub rings made from alumnim or plastic.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Had the tires mounted yesterday, they fit fine.



apparently not.  


Dropped the car off this morning at the dealership as the thermostat went on it on Friday.  The car never really drove right with the snow tires, felt like a balancing issue, so I asked for the Mazda dealership to check it out.  Jiffy Lube used far too much torque putting the wheels on and cross threaded all the lugs.  The damage? 5 rear studs need to be replaced and both front hubs.  $810!!!! :blink:

So, now the battle begins with Jiffy Lube.  Probably going to have their ass rent my car as well as now I'm out the vehicle and extra day.


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## hammer (Dec 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> apparently not.
> 
> 
> Dropped the car off this morning at the dealership as the thermostat went on it on Friday.  The car never really drove right with the snow tires, felt like a balancing issue, so I asked for the Mazda dealership to check it out.  Jiffy Lube used far too much torque putting the wheels on and cross threaded all the lugs.  The damage? 5 rear studs need to be replaced and both front hubs.  $810!!!! :blink:
> ...


Tough break...that's why I don't mind paying my all-purpose mechanic $78/hour to do work on my cars...

So are the wheels still OK?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

Wheels are fine.  The dealership simply said that whoever put the tires on had ZERO clue what they were doing.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 14, 2009)

Not to rub it in, but of all the places you could go, you chose Jiffy Lube?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Not to rub it in, but of all the places you could go, you chose Jiffy Lube?



It was the most convenient place to my wife's work to get it done at lunch.  It's putting on tires, not changing a head gasket.  I really didn't think they could screw it up.


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## Marc (Dec 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> It was the most convenient place to my wife's work to get it done at lunch.  It's putting on tires, not changing a head gasket.  I really didn't think they could screw it up.



Never misunderestimate the stupidity of total idiots.


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## Glenn (Dec 14, 2009)

Marc said:


> Never misunderestimate the stupidity of total idiots.



x2. 

If they can fudge up an oil change, they can fudge up wheels. 

A total drag. Hopefully, you get it sorted out. And damn, the dealer is charging an arm and a leg to replace the wheel studs. With the right tools that should be a fairly simple job.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

The two front Hubs are where the bulk of the money is $600.


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## Glenn (Dec 14, 2009)

I re-read more slowly. Yikes...trashed the front hubs? Man, that's a drag.


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## mlctvt (Dec 14, 2009)

These quick lube places pay minimum wage so you can imagine who's working on your car. :roll:
He probably used an impact wrench to put on the lug nuts, something that shouldn't be done unless you hand start each lug and you use a torque limiting extension. 
This is probably the single most common auto repair error. Over torquing lugs can also severely warp brake rotors and damages wheel too.


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## hammer (Dec 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> The two front Hubs are where the bulk of the money is $600.


And I'll bet the only source is OEM...been burned financially on those types of part replacements.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> These quick lube places pay minimum wage so you can imagine who's working on your car. :roll:
> He probably used an impact wrench to put on the lug nuts, something that shouldn't be done unless you hand start each lug and you use a torque limiting extension.
> This is probably the single most common auto repair error. Over torquing lugs can also severely warp brake rotors and damages wheel too.



this is what the Mazda guy suspected as well.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

This is going to get freakin' ugly.  Finally heard back from Jiffy Lube.  They are refusing to pay for it claiming that the wheels were the wrong size for the car.  I asked Mazda earlier in the day if this was the case, they responded no, the wheels are the right size and it was error by Jiffy Lube.

sorry greg, but

FUCK!


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## wa-loaf (Dec 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> This is going to get freakin' ugly.  Finally heard back from Jiffy Lube.  They are refusing to pay for it claiming that the wheels were the wrong size for the car.  I asked Mazda earlier in the day if this was the case, they responded no, the wheels are the right size and it was error by Jiffy Lube.
> 
> sorry greg, but
> 
> FUCK!



Get a detailed report from Mazda and escalate. They're hoping you will walk away ...


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Get a detailed report from Mazda and escalate. They're hoping you will walk away ...



only place I'm walking is to small claims court.  I will definitely be escalating. 

Even if these were the wrong sized wheels (which Mazda insisted they were the right size) wouldn't Jiffy Lube be liable for installing them?


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## wa-loaf (Dec 14, 2009)

There are a few lawyers here, maybe they can chime in?


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## bvibert (Dec 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> This is going to get freakin' ugly.  Finally heard back from Jiffy Lube.  They are refusing to pay for it claiming that the wheels were the wrong size for the car.  I asked Mazda earlier in the day if this was the case, they responded no, the wheels are the right size and it was error by Jiffy Lube.
> 
> sorry greg, but
> 
> FUCK!



That really sucks DHS, can't say I'm surprised by their response though.  Good luck with the battle...


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2009)

My brother suggested that depending on how much time / $$$ this whole ordeal costs me, I should exact revenge by standing outside the Jiffy Lube with a big ass sign saying "Buyer beware. This store caused $800 worth of damage to my car"


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## Glenn (Dec 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> This is going to get freakin' ugly.  Finally heard back from Jiffy Lube.  They are refusing to pay for it claiming that the wheels were the wrong size for the car.  I asked Mazda earlier in the day if this was the case, they responded no, the wheels are the right size and it was error by Jiffy Lube.
> 
> sorry greg, but
> 
> FUCK!



The only way they could use that excuse would be if the bolt holes were off just a bit. But then it becomes a "if they're the wrong size wheel...why did you install them?" issue. Also, if they weren't the right size, you shouldn't use the "get a bigger hammer...it'll fit" mentality.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2009)

Glenn said:


> The only way they could use that excuse would be if the bolt holes were off just a bit. But then it becomes a "if they're the wrong size wheel...why did you install them?" issue. Also, if they weren't the right size, you shouldn't use the "get a bigger hammer...it'll fit" mentality.



I just got off the phone and Mazda reiterated they are the right size wheel.  And like you mentioned, even if they were not, why would JL install them?  In order to complete the transaction with the fellow I bought the wheels from, I had 24 hours to determine that they were indeed the right size.  I trusted JL as 'professionals' to make that determination for me.  If they did not fit, I would've returned the tires.  I have the email exchange with whom I bought the tires from stating this.  The Mazda folks are taking pictures of the damage for me and writing a detailed inspection of what they found.  Looks like I'll be seeing Jiffy Lube in court. :uzi:


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## Geoff (Dec 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Looks like I'll be seeing Jiffy Lube in court. :uzi:



Unfortunately, all the oil change places are the same.   If they screw up, they don't make good on it.   They hope to cast enough doubt in small claims court that they pay nothing or only a partial settlement.   

I've had tire places like Town Fair Tire refuse to mount snow tires.  I bought used VW steel rims from somebody with a New Beetle who was doing a wheel upgrade.   The rims said VW on them.   Town Fair Tire wouldn't touch them due to the liability.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2009)

This whole process gets worse and worse.  

Now, the Mazda dealership is saying that the wheels do not fit properly.  So, Jiffy Lube forced tires on that didn't fit correctly causing all of this damage to the vehicle.

At this point the Mazda dealership has a set of wheels and snows that came off of the exact same car in good shape that I will be having them mount.

Jiffy Lube claims zero responsibility for forcing on wheels that did not fit the car.  What do people feel is their liability in this matter?

What a freaking nightmare.


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## o3jeff (Dec 15, 2009)

I think they are both giving you the shaft. I think with most wheel bolt patterns it is cut and dry if they fit or not without re-drilling the holes on the wheel. The prices Mazda quoted seem awfully high and now they want to sell you another set of wheels and tires too.

I try to avoid having any work done at a dealer unless it is warranty or recall work


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## bvibert (Dec 15, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> I think they are both giving you the shaft.



That was my first thought as well.  However if the center bore of the wheel didn't match the hub on the car it could have caused problems.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2009)

bvibert said:


> That was my first thought as well.  However if the center bore of the wheel didn't match the hub on the car it could have caused problems.



This is what the dealership said and because of it the lugs would only tighten to a half inch of where they needed to be.

I still have no idea why JL would try and force the wheel on if it did not fit properly.  I would think I'd have a case against them for that.


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## hammer (Dec 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> This is what the dealership said and because of it the lugs would only tighten to a half inch of where they needed to be.
> 
> I still have no idea why JL would try and force the wheel on if it did not fit properly.  I would think I'd have a case against them for that.


Agree...JL should have just called you back and said that they could not fit the wheels.

I still think you have a case, but you may only get partial reimbursement.

As far as the replacements and repairs go, if you have an option to get an opinion from someone other than the stealership then I'd take it.  May be that you have to go OEM parts...and in that case you are just SOL.

Situation sucks, but thanks for sharing your experience.


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## Puck it (Dec 15, 2009)

Sounds like the offset for the wheels were wrong.  This will cause the bolts to not tighened down the lugs.    Did you get the offset from the previous owner? JO should have stopped when they bottomed out the lugs.  This would do it.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 15, 2009)

Shitty situation all around. Sorry dude. :-(


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## tjf67 (Dec 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> This whole process gets worse and worse.
> 
> Now, the Mazda dealership is saying that the wheels do not fit properly.  So, Jiffy Lube forced tires on that didn't fit correctly causing all of this damage to the vehicle.
> 
> ...




I thought you checked and they did fit?   I think Jiffy lube put them on wrong and screwed your car up( they will make good when you get to the right person) Now Mazda sees they have this guy all freaked out and they are sticking one up your ass.   Slow down before you cost yourself 3k for new snow tires.   :flag:


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## bvibert (Dec 15, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Sounds like the offset for the wheels were wrong.  This will cause the bolts to not tighened down the lugs.    Did you get the offset from the previous owner? JO should have stopped when they bottomed out the lugs.  This would do it.



An incorrect offset would have only prevented the wheels from seating if the tire or another part of the rim hit something else on the car.  That would have made them drag at the very least, or not rotate at all.  Seeing as the car drove after they were done I doubt that was the case.  I still say the center bore was probably under sized on the wheels, causing the wheel not to seat fully.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2009)

The car drove 'wobbly' with the improper fitting wheel.


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## bvibert (Dec 15, 2009)

I haven't found any concrete info, but it looks like the Acura you go the wheels from has a center bore of 64.1 whereas your Mazda has a center bore 67.1.  I can't seem to nail down that size on the Mazda, but I'm pretty sure about the Acura size.  If that's true then there's no way the Acura wheels would have fit correctly on the Mazda.


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## bvibert (Dec 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> The car drove 'wobbly' with the improper fitting wheel.



That would make sense if the wheels weren't seated correctly.  I feel bad that I didn't look up the above info sooner, it may have saved you a boatload of trouble.  Still, Jiffy Lube should have been able to see the problem.


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## o3jeff (Dec 15, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> I thought you checked and they did fit?   I think Jiffy lube put them on wrong and screwed your car up( they will make good when you get to the right person) Now Mazda sees they have this guy all freaked out and they are sticking one up your ass.   Slow down before you cost yourself 3k for new snow tires.   :flag:



Screw the local manager since he isn't willing to work with you, start here
http://www.jiffylube.com/about/contact.aspx


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## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2009)

bvibert said:


> That would make sense if the wheels weren't seated correctly.  I feel bad that I didn't look up the above info sooner, it may have saved you a boatload of trouble.  Still, Jiffy Lube should have been able to see the problem.



Shop manager at JL said that it's not their responsibility to see if the tire fits properly.  They'll put on whatever you give them.  The only guarantee they promise is that they won't come off while driving.  :blink:


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## Puck it (Dec 15, 2009)

bvibert said:


> An incorrect offset would have only prevented the wheels from seating if the tire or another part of the rim hit something else on the car. That would have made them drag at the very least, or not rotate at all. Seeing as the car drove after they were done I doubt that was the case. I still say the center bore was probably under sized on the wheels, causing the wheel not to seat fully.


 
True.  It does sound like a center was to small.


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## bvibert (Dec 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Shop manager at JL said that it's not their responsibility to see if the tire fits properly.  They'll put on whatever you give them.  The only guarantee they promise is that they won't come off while driving.  :blink:



That's bullshit.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

Puck it said:


> True.  It does sound like a center was to small.



Indeed.

I just visited the 'patient'. I with zero automotive mechanical aptitude would still be able to tell that these wheels were not the right fit for the hubs.  The wheel was over a half an inch from being seated fully on the hub.  Total case of square peg, round whole and their lack of simple common sense could've possibly resulted in the tire snapping off.  How someone with ten years worth of experience could not tell this is beyond me.

The car is being finished up right now.  They gave me a loaner to use and I'm about to enter the local district court to final my small claim.  If it was questionable that the wheel wasn't right for the car and it was only an 1/8-1/4 inch off, I'd wouldn't bother, but it isn't even close. I think I have a strong case towards reclaiming the $890 it cost to repair the vehicle.


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## billski (Dec 16, 2009)

This is the first I've read this thread. Forgive me if I'm not following this thread properly, but I've questions that will undoubtedly arise in small claims court.

First, the dealership told you they are the right wheels, then later they told you they were not. What changed? Was the first opinion based on verbal and the second on a visual inspection.

Second, even if we presume you had the correct wheels, there is no excuse for cross-threading and over-torquing. If I made that mistake in my business, I am on the hook for fixing at least that mistake.

Third, what was the reason the hubs have to be replaced? Was it because the wheels wobbled?  I want to know the root cause.

If they can prevail that they only do as told, I suspect you can get compensated for the new studs, but not the wobble damage. But that's just my $0.02.

The "common sense" thread runs deep here. As a business owner I would not want to let an unsafe car leave my facility without at least fully warning the customer. The shops I go to tend to over-warn me (sometimes I think they are just looking to churn the piggy bank). From there a vigorous discussion ensues about whether the issue is safety-related or not and to understand the risks. Often they make a note of their advice right on the receipt. Good business all around.

Often in court (I've sat on too many juries) the decision comes down to the "reasonableness" criteria. What would a reasonable person do in this situation?


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## hammer (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I just visited the 'patient'. I with zero automotive mechanical aptitude would still be able to tell that these wheels were not the right fit for the hubs.  The wheel was over a half an inch from being seated fully on the hub.  Total case of square peg, round whole and their lack of simple common sense could've possibly resulted in the tire snapping off.  How someone with ten years worth of experience could not tell this is beyond me.
> 
> The car is being finished up right now.  They gave me a loaner to use and I'm about to enter the local district court to final my small claim.  If it was questionable that the wheel wasn't right for the car and it was only an 1/8-1/4 inch off, I'd wouldn't bother, but it isn't even close. I think I have a strong case towards reclaiming the $890 it cost to repair the vehicle.


Good luck...hopefully the stealership is providing you with a good amount of information to support your claim.

Also feels good to read about another male of the species who claims to have zero automotive mechanical aptitude. :beer:


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## billski (Dec 16, 2009)

p.s., please tell the dealer to save all the replaced parts for you.  Pictures should be good enough in court, but by asserting that you "have the pieces in my car, would you like to see them?", give you far more credence.


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## billski (Dec 16, 2009)

hammer said:


> Good luck...hopefully the stealership is providing you with a good amount of information to support your claim.
> 
> Also feels good to read about another male of the species who claims to have zero automotive mechanical aptitude. :beer:


 
I have very little interest in auto mechanics and thus work hard to find good mechanics.  I never ask to see under the hood when buying a car and only look when the salesperson insists.  I understand generally the mechanics of an issue, but other than changing my own tires and refilling the wiper blades and washer fluid, I don't do much.   I always grille them with a lot of questions about the risks of doing this or that and make decisions based on calculated risks.  In my case, I would only consider having tire work done by a place that sells tires as a primary course of business.


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## hammer (Dec 16, 2009)

billski said:


> I have very little interest in auto mechanics and thus work hard to find good mechanics.  I never ask to see under the hood when buying a car and only look when the salesperson insists.  I understand generally the mechanics of an issue, but other than changing my own tires and refilling the wiper blades and washer fluid, I don't do much.   I always grille them with a lot of questions about the risks of doing this or that and make decisions based on calculated risks.  In my case, I would only consider having tire work done by a place that sells tires as a primary course of business.


Sounds a lot like what I do...except I even stay away from the tire retailers unless I have a history or a personal recommendation.

The mechanic that I take my older car to charges almost as much for labor as a stealership...but he's quite knowledgeable, he doesn't do unnecessary work, and he lets me know if a repair can be delayed so I can plan for it financially.

That all said, I do wish I had the time to learn more about my cars so that I could do some work myself.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

billski said:


> p.s., please tell the dealer to save all the replaced parts for you.  Pictures should be good enough in court, but by asserting that you "have the pieces in my car, would you like to see them?", give you far more credence.



They have saved all of the damaged parts and my intention is to bring them into the courtroom and show the judge that they essentially tried to ram a square peg into a round whole.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> They have saved all of the damaged parts and my intention is to bring them into the courtroom and show the judge that they essentially tried to ram a square peg into a round whole.



Good luck!


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## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

billski said:


> I have very little interest in auto mechanics and thus work hard to find good mechanics.  I never ask to see under the hood when buying a car and only look when the salesperson insists.  I understand generally the mechanics of an issue, but other than changing my own tires and refilling the wiper blades and washer fluid, I don't do much.   I always grille them with a lot of questions about the risks of doing this or that and make decisions based on calculated risks.  In my case, I would only consider having tire work done by a place that sells tires as a primary course of business.



I was a pretty fair backyard mechanic back in the much simpler 1970's when my car had a carburator and a mechanical ignitition system.   No big deal to swap in new plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, points, and condensor.    Ignition timing was easy.  No big deal to pull brake drums, have them turned, replace the shoes, and do the rebuild kit on the slave cylinders.   I've replaced a couple of clutches.   I always changed my own oil.

These days, I don't do much of anything beyond windshield washer fluid and wiper blades.   I don't have the time and cars are way too complex these days.   I own a floor jack and I've swapped snow tires on and off a few times in the last decade when I couldn't get a tire shop to do it in a hurry.   I could probably put my hands on my torque wrench in less than 30 seconds but I haven't used it in a while.   I have the USB diagnostic cable for my VW GTI and the software.   I scan for fault codes when I think of it.... usually right before an oil change.  The car is under warranty.   I have the dealer do all my oil changes since the cartridge oil filter and oil drain in the GTI is kind of funky and I don't trust a Jiffy Lube to use VW-approved oil.   I know in theory how to change my oil but I don't have a ramp or jack stands to get under the car, I don't have the torx tools to remove the spray shield under the engine to get at the oil filter, and I have nowhere to easiy dispose of waste motor oil.


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