# A note about our moderators



## Greg (Jan 20, 2006)

I'd just wanted to quickly chime in here about something. There have been a few instances of folks "calling out" or otherwise publicly questioning decisions made by a moderator. Our moderators, at times, truly have a thankless job. In the 7+ years that I've been running this forum, I've learned that you simply *cannot *please everyone. The best we can do is to try to diffuse situations in a reasonable manner, hopefully for the "greater good" of the community. We have a private forum that is used to discuss issues that come up before any action is taken. Most of the time, if a post is locked, edited or deleted, and certainly in the instance that a member is banned, it's only after we have discussed it at great length and a majority of the moderators are in agreement. So please do not single out a moderator publicly if you have a problem with how something's been handled. More often than not, the whole mod team is on board with the decision. If you truly need to address an issue about the moderating here, please contact any moderator or me directly via *private message* to discuss.

This forum has been criticised for being over-moderated. I strongly disagree. The fact is very few posts are deleted or edited. The signal to noise ratio here is naturally low, mostly due to our great members that have set a precedence for quality discussion, not over-moderation. Thank you all for your support!


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## pepperdawg (Jan 31, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> The fact is very few posts are deleted or edited.



Although it seems quite a few get locked....


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 31, 2006)

pepperdawg said:
			
		

> Greg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A ha!  But yet they are threads I would lock had I the ability to do so.  :wink:


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## dmc (Jan 31, 2006)

pepperdawg said:
			
		

> Greg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry about that...  

Seriuosly.. this is a chill place..


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## ctenidae (Feb 1, 2006)

AZ Mods Rock!

Seriusly, I wouldn't categorize AZ as over-moderated. I think the members do a pretty good job of self-moderation, with the board's standards upheld by the mods as needed. As I always (well, sometimes) say, "All things in moderation, including moderation itself."

:beer:


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## Marc (Feb 7, 2006)

Yeah, I moderate the amount of moderation I use in a number of areas...

booze, skiing, womens, no common sense, mental capacity, etc. etc.



But I have no problems with the way this place is run and appreciate all your time!

Keep up the good work.

 :beer:


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## blacknblue (Feb 21, 2006)

Thanks, mods, for all of your tireless and thankless effort!  I think this is one of the better boards out there (hence, my participation), fwiw.


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## Greg (Jul 27, 2006)

Bump. We had another instance of questioning mods' decisions yesterday so I just wanted to bump this post up.


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## bruno (Jul 27, 2006)

you cats questionin' and moanin' about the moderators here oughtta check out www.viewsfromthetop.com for some serious anal moderators without one iota of a sense of humor. these guys here are cool.    :flag: :dunce:


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## ChileMass (Jul 27, 2006)

bruno said:
			
		

> you cats questionin' and moanin' about the moderators here oughtta check out www.viewsfromthetop.com for some serious anal moderators without one iota of a sense of humor. these guys here are cool.    :flag: :dunce:



Thank you, Bruno............:beer:


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## awf170 (Jul 27, 2006)

Alright here is something I said in a PM to Greg:

Doing stuff like editing/deleting posts and locking threads does not help, IMO. Doing this just makes whoever was arguing more angry and just makes them more likely to take it out on the person in another thread/post. I don't think posts should be edited/deleted unless something like racistism/sexism was used. IMHO, I think when threads get out of control they should be locked for a time of about 1-3 days, then opened back up again. If this doesn't work then it should finally be locked, but not deleted. I'm not too sure where I'm going with this and not even sure I remember the question, but in summary I pretty much know everything and should put as co-admin next to you. Actually nvm, I want to be admin, you can be vice-admin or something like that.

Also, I would like to add that I thought the MRG Burton thing was handled quite well by the mods.


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 27, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> Alright here is something I said in a PM to Greg:
> 
> Doing stuff like editing/deleting posts and locking threads does not help, IMO. Doing this just makes whoever was arguing more angry and just makes them more likely to take it out on the person in another thread/post. I don't think posts should be edited/deleted unless something like racistism/sexism was used. IMHO, I think when threads get out of control they should be locked for a time of about 1-3 days, then opened back up again. If this doesn't work then it should finally be locked, but not deleted. I'm not too sure where I'm going with this and not even sure I remember the question, but in summary I pretty much know everything and should put as co-admin next to you. Actually nvm, I want to be admin, you can be vice-admin or something like that.
> 
> Also, I would like to add that I thought the MRG Burton thing was handled quite well by the mods.



This isn't Myspace, Austin.  Most of us old farts like the waters calm.


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## riverc0il (Jul 27, 2006)

this isn't even about waters being calm. the mods have taken on extra responsibility to ensure the community and forum remains civil and enjoyable to all. even when we disagree with a decision, we owe each other and the mods respect on the decision. if a lot of people disagreed about over zealous mods, i am sure issues would be raised but rarely does any one cry foul and it is almost always the person causing trouble. i have seen other forums with iron handed mods, this forum is not one of them, so much respect to those making the decisions on keeping things civil.


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 27, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> the mods have taken on extra responsibility to ensure the community and forum remains civil and enjoyable to all. even when we disagree with a decision, we owe each other and the mods respect on the decision.




Funny... that's my definition of calm waters, Steve.


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## riverc0il (Jul 27, 2006)

i think you can have a dynamic and vibrant community full of posts that 'rock the boat' without mods needing to step in  so we differ in our calm waters definition. i like to the boat rocked with some candid discourse, else everyone walks around on egg shells and things are not interesting.


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 27, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i think you can have a dynamic and vibrant community full of posts that 'rock the boat' without mods needing to step in  so we differ in our calm waters definition. i like to the boat rocked with some candid discourse, else everyone walks around on egg shells and things are not interesting.



No...still my definition of calm waters.  :razz:   It's good to disagree.  It's even better when we're respectful when doing it...which I think is what you're saying.....no?


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## David Metsky (Jul 27, 2006)

bruno said:
			
		

> you cats questionin' and moanin' about the moderators here oughtta check out www.viewsfromthetop.com for some serious anal moderators without one iota of a sense of humor. these guys here are cool.    :flag: :dunce:


Yup, I hate that place.  Damn moderators.

 -dave-


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## Greg (Jul 27, 2006)

David Metsky said:
			
		

> Yup, I hate that place.  Damn moderators.
> 
> -dave-


Ha! In Darren's defense, VFTT is a great site. Although the very rigid on-topic only approach is not really my thing, he must be doing something right as it's clearly the most popular forum to discuss Northeast hiking. Let's please keep the discussion on the moderation of _this _site; not trashing others.


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## awf170 (Jul 27, 2006)

BeanoNYC said:
			
		

> This isn't Myspace, Austin.  Most of us old farts like the waters calm.



For your infomation oldie I hate myspace and had never had an accont there. 8)


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 27, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> For your infomation oldie I hate myspace and had never had an accont there. 8)



LMAO!!!!! :beer:   There's some hope in this world.


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## ctenidae (Jul 27, 2006)

As for walking on eggshells, I don't want to ever be accused of that. No, I tend to stomp on them, grinding little bits into the carpet.

I do try to stay on my side of the line, though.


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 27, 2006)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> As for walking on eggshells, I don't want to ever be accused of that.




I'm sure Marc could vouch for that.  :lol:


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## bruno (Jul 28, 2006)

David Metsky said:
			
		

> Yup, I hate that place.  Damn moderators.
> 
> -dave-



duder! you know who i'm referrin' to! and it ain't you! :beer: :razz:


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## JimG. (Jul 28, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> this isn't even about waters being calm. the mods have taken on extra responsibility to ensure the community and forum remains civil and enjoyable to all. even when we disagree with a decision, we owe each other and the mods respect on the decision. if a lot of people disagreed about over zealous mods, i am sure issues would be raised but rarely does any one cry foul and it is almost always the person causing trouble. i have seen other forums with iron handed mods, this forum is not one of them, so much respect to those making the decisions on keeping things civil.



I'll speak for all the mods...thanks Steve and everyone else who has posted about this.


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## kcyanks1 (Jul 28, 2006)

I agree th mods do a good job here.  There are never trolls, posts stay on-topic.  I post in un-moderated newsgroups, and while there are advantages, you never see the trolls and spam on this site that you can in newsgroups.  It also seems like it is pretty rare that they step in and edit posts or close threads.  Though I guess I'm with Austin that locking is preferable to deleting, when action is necessary, unless the offending post is really extreme.


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## Vortex (Jul 31, 2006)

I think our members do alot of the moderating.  They self moderate.  I get many pm's from members showing what they see and tell me what they did and ask for help. Most of the time when I jump in it cause I was asked by others to help unless its useless spam..
 Its the community thing.  If we step in its not a powere issue. We all make decisions some good some bad.   I came here because of the mellow and safe feeling here.  I stay for the same reason.  Some nice words guys and thanks for those that have offered reasonable suggestions and ideas.


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## 2knees (Jul 31, 2006)

I think you guys run this place fine.  I definitely know you have a lot more restraint then I do in regards to putting up with junk on other boards.  Heck, I'm having a hard time resisting the urge to pop off.  Must fight it.....


Anyway it seems like a mostly thankless job but you do very well imo.


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## SilentCal (Jul 31, 2006)

Greg is correct when he mentions that you can not please everyone.  Try as much as you like, but there is always someone that will be upset with whatever decision is made.   If your truly upset with a moderators decison then maybe the particular forum you are in is just not for you.  95% of the moderators that I've spoken to on various sites are volunteers who are quite sensible.   Very very few are true jerks.

One of the best things to happen to this site was the removal of politcal topics.   I'm sure it cut moderators work by 80%.


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## Vortex (Aug 1, 2006)

Silentcal is one of the non-moderators who moderate I was talking about.  Nice words though.  He sent pm's to me to hike.


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## Brettski (Oct 30, 2006)

Damn,

I wouldn't have even thought that this would be an issue here

In any case, I prefer my calm waters to bee in the form of deep, deep snow


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## skiNEwhere (Nov 6, 2006)

honestly this forum is cool. the people here get along. skiing is a competitive sport, and so is snowboarding, and so it skiing VS. snowboarding. but its laid back, no power hungry mods, everything is in moderation (i know, not funny)


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## dmc (Mar 31, 2011)

Free.... ummm.. nevermind...


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## ERJ-145CA (Jun 16, 2011)

skiNEwhere said:


> honestly this forum is cool. the people here get along. skiing is a competitive sport, and so is snowboarding, and so it skiing VS. snowboarding. but its laid back, no power hungry mods, everything is in moderation (i know, not funny)



My how times have changed.


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## Nick (Jun 16, 2011)

Hey ERJ-145CA

For what it's worth, I still agree with Greg's post at the top about this forum being minimally moderated. I'll explain some more... since many people don't have insight into what really occurred yesterday.  

The _only_ thing that was moderated yesterday were dozens of new threads that were started for the sole purpose of inflaming the board. Those were deleted, in part because some had titles like "Fuck the mods" and "Please Ban Me". In addition some posts that were directing people away from the site were moderated as well. 

I'm more than happy to talk about it (and I have with several already in PM). Two users were banned for (3) days after being warned explicitly not to continue creating new threads or they would be banned. 

The only other thing that was moderated was the GSS posts. The reason for that is the GSS thread with the poll went out of control. There was a lot of personal attacks in there, again that not everyone is aware of since they were deleted. Really over the top stuff. So as a result, we locked the thread - and I encouraged anyone who wanted to know why to send me a PM to discuss it. 

So what happened yesterday was really unfortunate. I'm hoping the members who were temp banned can come back and be great contributors to the board again. They had great posts that I respect a lot, and I even said that to them in the process of temp banning them. 

I'm writing up a post on the rule changes now, why we did them, what it means, and so on. It will be open for comment. I'm not for stifling opinion - the mods and I really care about what everyone on this forum has to say, but the GSS stuff yesterday went _way _out of control, more than many people realize. In retrospect, I probably should have first updated the rules, made people aware of them, and then doled out the warnings I had to give out. But it definitely wasn't arbitrary in any way. 

Anyway - keep tuned for a post in this forum about the rule changes and what they actually mean. I hope it will help explain it to everyone. Myself and the mods have been talking a lot about this and trying to find a way to balance out discussion in the boards. It will never be perfect - but really with the GSS thing, for example, that decision was made a long time ago and it was truly derailing the entire forum in almost all threads. 

I'm sorry I can't make everyone happy - I really wish I could. I do want everyone to feel comfortable talking here. *No one will ever be banned, even temporarily, without a very clear warning first that the banning is the next step*, and I will give as many opportunities to respond over PM as they would like about those decisions. 

Let me be very clear, I am 100% on board with people dissenting. Differing opinions make the place fun and exciting. What I'm not on board with is personal attacks and creating this Mods vs. Members thing that was really damaging to the community. The entire thing is a gray line and I think most members of AlpineZone understand that. I don't care about small jabs, virulent disagreements on ski resort policy, etc. But I can't have six-month tail discussions on every moderation decision, particularly one that was made almost two years ago. We all know not everyone is going to be happy with all the decisions that are made... that's just the way it is, unfortunately, because we are all human at the end of the day. 

Anyway. Look for the other thread a bit later. Again, in retrospect I should have posted it sooner..... to give the opportunity for comment in a centralized place (not in the Miscellaneous forum). I'm truly sorry about handling it backwards in that regards.


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## andyzee (Jun 16, 2011)

Nick,
            Don't mean to imflame or start trouble, but was looking at your rules and to bring it up the GSS item one last time. Was he given the temporary bans as outlined in the board policies? I for one don't remember that happening.


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## Nick (Jun 16, 2011)

That was prior to putting this policy in place. 

Sent from my Thunderbolt via Tapatalk


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## andyzee (Jun 16, 2011)

Nick said:


> That was prior to putting this policy in place.
> 
> Sent from my Thunderbolt via Tapatalk


 
Fair enough, thanks for the response.


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## Nick (Jun 16, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Fair enough, thanks for the response.



Np

Sent from my Thunderbolt via Tapatalk


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## ERJ-145CA (Jun 16, 2011)

Nick,

About my above post that was just my feelings after logging on late last night, after being away from my computer all day, and seeing two frequent contributors banned and all kinds of locked threads.  Two years ago the GSS banning left a sour taste in my mouth.  I found his posts entertaining and I felt that a permanent banning was undeserved and made this board less interesting.  I used to be a much more frequent visitor during the off-season before GSS was banned mainly because, frankly, there were interesting threads with funny posts from him leading to funny or entertaining posts from others.

I didn't see what happened during the day but when I saw a new round of bannings and such it seemed to me that this site was suddenly being over-moderated overnight.  I'm not one to start flame wars or troll but I will and have responded with my feelings in threads when I feel a need to comment, even if it is a "controversial" thread about GSS or any other subject (except politics as I have been a member of a board where every thread devoloved into a political argument and it was very annoying).  I respect your right to run the board as you see fit and wish you luck with it but I hope yesterday is not an indication of future heavy handed moderation.


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## Nick (Jun 16, 2011)

ERJ-145CA said:


> Nick,
> 
> About my above post that was just my feelings after logging on late last night, after being away from my computer all day, and seeing two frequent contributors banned and all kinds of locked threads.  Two years ago the GSS banning left a sour taste in my mouth.  I found his posts entertaining and I felt that a permanent banning was undeserved and made this board less interesting.  I used to be a much more frequent visitor during the off-season before GSS was banned mainly because, frankly, there were interesting threads with funny posts from him leading to funny or entertaining posts from others.
> 
> I didn't see what happened during the day but when I saw a new round of bannings and such it seemed to me that this site was suddenly being over-moderated overnight.  I'm not one to start flame wars or troll but I will and have responded with my feelings in threads when I feel a need to comment, even if it is a "controversial" thread about GSS or any other subject (except politics as I have been a member of a board where every thread devoloved into a political argument and it was very annoying).  I respect your right to run the board as you see fit and wish you luck with it but I hope yesterday is not an indication of future heavy handed moderation.



Thanks for the feedback. I hope my comments above gave some more context around the events of the day... 

I am not looking to over-moderate the site, at all. I think in some ways the way the GSS threads had gone reminded me of a "political" thread as you said in some ways. Even here we can talk about it - I don't care if it's controversial or not - but at some point when a decision is final it has to be final. I know the GSS thing is polarizing and I've had strong arguments from both sides. I just made my decision based on my earlier post, and the problem in the other threads (which I let run for a long time..) was that they got out of hand and had to be locked. 

I'd rather have a thread about banning policies or whatever than spend eons discussing the decision of one person many years ago, even as loved / hated as he apparently was. 

IN any event - my goal is the opposite of "heavy handed moderation". The members are what makes the community, and myself and the mods serve (as Greg mentioned in the original post above) to help the greater good of the community. In this particular case I tried to do what I thought was best for the community. 

Actually in re-reading Greg's original post, it's almost the identical situation as what was happening here, and I stand by the comments I made earlier that anyone can contact me anytime. 

Call me. Send me a PM and I'll give you my number and we can talk on the phone. 

Email me. Nick@alpinezone.com. I'll talk to you

PM me. 

Whatever, but I'm open for talking about anything and everything. Or at least I will try to be. 

Thanks again... - Nick :beer:

 bring on the snow


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## riverc0il (Jun 16, 2011)

Wow. I forget my laptop at work and can't log into AZ for a day and look what I miss!

I didn't see anything that happened yesterday. I just want to chime in and say I am rather disappointed to hear that threads were created saying F the mods. 

AZ has been feeling kinda hostile lately. Seems like more than just summer doldrums setting in. Easy for me to say I guess since my season is not over yet.

Let's get this back on track... thanks to the Mods and the Admin for their work running behind the scenes on AZ and making tough calls that may not always be popular with certain segments of AZ members.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks rivercoil!  :beer:


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 16, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Wow. I forget my laptop at work and can't log into AZ for a day and look what I miss!
> 
> I didn't see anything that happened yesterday. I just want to chime in and say I am rather disappointed to hear that threads were created saying F the mods.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post Steve...Let me say that your 10k+ posts have helped turn AZ into what it is today. The late Greg ;-) always used to say back in the day it was pretty much you and him talking on the forum  :lol:..Looking forward to more of it!


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## Nick (Jun 16, 2011)

ALLSKIING said:


> The late Greg !




I hope no one takes that out of context


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## bvibert (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words Steve!


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## JimG. (Jun 16, 2011)

Steve, that took some guts. 

Thanks.


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## SkiDork (Jun 17, 2011)

Gawd.  If people could just act like adults, and live by the "would I say that to them if I was face to face" and "restraint of pen and tongue" moderation would not be necessary. 

"Yeah?  Well the Jerk store called - they're running out of YOU!"


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## deadheadskier (Jun 17, 2011)

Yep, SkiDork.  Basically all we're looking for.


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## Nick (Jun 17, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Gawd.  If people could just act like adults, and live by the "would I say that to them if I was face to face" and "restraint of pen and tongue" moderation would not be necessary.
> 
> "Yeah?  Well the Jerk store called - they're running out of YOU!"



It sure _sounds _easy, doesn't it? But, alas, this is the Interwebs..... :dunce:






Anyway. Part of forum life :roll: 
:argue:


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## twinplanx (Jun 17, 2011)

Nick said:


> I hope no one takes that out of context



I was concerned, till I saw the clarification.


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## ALLSKIING (Jun 17, 2011)

twinplanx said:


> I was concerned, till I saw the clarification.


Fixed it so I dont freak people out LOL


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## pepperdawg (Jun 20, 2011)

Free da Dis....


...and make him a Moderator.


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## 2knees (Jun 20, 2011)

andy gave him the boot also.  i think mogulskiing.net is his last hope.


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## gmcunni (Jun 20, 2011)

2knees said:


> andy gave him the boot also.



really? i thought it was "anything goes" over there


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## andyzee (Jun 20, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> really? i thought it was "anything goes" over there



Nope, not anything goes, don't know where that comes from. I do encourage freedom of expression, however, there are still a few rules, one of them being no personal attacks. An that is a tough call as there may be some personal attacks due to disagreements. However, 90% of his posts were nothing but personal attacks... 

Thanks for paying attention 2knees.. :razz:

Edit:  Actually have to hand it to the little guy. In close to 2 years, first person to be deleted.


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## 2knees (Jun 20, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Nope, not anything goes, don't know where that comes from. I do encourage freedom of expression, however, there are still a few rules, one of them being no personal attacks. An that is a tough call as there may be some personal attacks due to disagreements. However, 90% of his posts were nothing but personal attacks...
> 
> Thanks for paying attention 2knees.. :razz:



who's really paying attention here andrew?  i think its you.


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## andyzee (Jun 20, 2011)

2knees said:


> who's really paying attention here andrew?  i think its you.



Yes Patrick, you are correct, my mistake. :lol:


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## Nick (Jun 20, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Nope, not anything goes, don't know where that comes from. I do encourage freedom of expression, however, there are still a few rules, one of them being no personal attacks. An that is a tough call as there may be some personal attacks due to disagreements. However, 90% of his posts were nothing but personal attacks...
> 
> Thanks for paying attention 2knees.. :razz:
> 
> Edit:  Actually have to hand it to the little guy. In close to 2 years, first person to be deleted.



I'll give you credit for the decision, it's never as easy or as black / white as it appears. "for the greater good". :wink:


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## Black Phantom (Jun 20, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Nope, not anything goes, don't know where that comes from. I do encourage freedom of expression, however, there are still a few rules, one of them being no personal attacks. An that is a tough call as there may be some personal attacks due to disagreements. However, 90% of his posts were nothing but personal attacks...
> 
> Thanks for paying attention 2knees.. :razz:
> 
> Edit:  Actually have to hand it to the little guy. In close to 2 years, first person to be deleted.



Did you just graduate from moderator school?


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## gmcunni (Jun 20, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Edit:  Actually have to hand it to the little guy. In close to 2 years, first person to be deleted.



no temporary deletion?


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## andyzee (Jun 20, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> Did you just graduate from moderator school?



No, still going, it's only a minor in the School of Hard Knocks.


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## andyzee (Jun 20, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> no temporary deletion?



Maybe.. I left it up to the community to see how they feel about it


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## Black Phantom (Jun 26, 2011)

Is this a full time, paid position with benefits?


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## Nick (Jun 26, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> Is this a full time, paid position with benefits?



Seriously? All of us work full time. (I'm pretty sure)

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


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## bvibert (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm still waiting for my paycheck...


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