# Okemo vs. Loon - pros and cons?



## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

My family has narrowed down the candidates for our home mountain for the next 7-10 years to Loon and Okemo. Both have lots of beginner trails and true ski-in, ski-out properties, which is logistically important to engage the missus who definitely won't be out on the slopes as long as the rest.

I'm trying to list up the pros & cons for each (actually just the pros, as the pros for one resort would be relative cons for the other). Can people add what I may have missed?

Loon

Closer from home (2 hours door-to-door vs 3 hours for Okemo)
With proximity to the White Mountains and the Lakes Region, more non-winter activities
Other day-trip destinations closeby (Cannon, Waterville, Bretton Woods)
Better scenery (debatable but at least personally)

Okemo

Skis bigger (official vertical almost same at 2200 ft vs. 2100 ft. But North Star Quad top-to-bottom definitely skis bigger and longer than the Gondola top-to-bottom)
More skiable acreage
More terrain variety
Ludlow livelier than Lincoln (probably due to NY crowds? More bustling shops and restaurants)
Better ski school (in my experience)

Other factors seem to be on par: duration of season, crowd.


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## skiking4 (Apr 16, 2013)

Never een to loon, but You have kton 30+ min away for okemo. Personally tho, not the biggest fan of okemo. I don't find it the most interesting mountain.


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## Gilligan (Apr 16, 2013)

You could not pay me to be stuck at Okemo for a week, let alone years. The place is flatter than H-E-double hockey sticks.


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## HD333 (Apr 16, 2013)

Is there truely ski in/ ski out at Loon? Or are most of the condos across the street?

We are exploring a move next season as well and as of now we are leaning towards Okemo for a true ski in/out seasonal rental (Kettlebrook, Trailside, Winterplace). Would love to hear your thoughts on Loon properties that are ski in/ out, assuming you are talking about seasonal rentals. We have focused on Okemo so if you have questions about the Slopeside options there fire away. (PM if you want)

I agree that Okemo skis bigger than Loon, and it has a bigger mountian feel to me, Jackson Gore seems like a different resort. 
Ludlow actually seems more laidback to me than the Lincoln area , which we like from a family perspective. A few real good places to eat/après. 

If you are talking about buying then Lincoln to me makes more sense as far as off season use, from what I hear Ludlow basically shuts down in the off season.


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## ss20 (Apr 16, 2013)

Well, this is a hard question! 

Okemo
- Usually opens later and always closes sooner
- Not as crowded (depending on where you are)
- Terrain is all similar 
- Off-mountain activities
- Lift system
Loon
- Lot's of terrain variety
- Easy to navigate
- Slightly better terrain parks
- White mountain beatuy
- Passes give you acces to Sunday River and Sugarloaf
Both
- Good for families
- Nothing too challenging
- Good glades
- Terrain parks

Personally, since I'm big on trees, I'd pick Okemo.  But if you want a mountain to call home for a decade, I'd say Loon.  Okemo's mountain coaster, pools, and tubing will only entertain your kids (I'm assuming you have kids because you want beginner trails and a ski school) for a limited time before they get bored.  Then they'll want to spend more time on the mountain, where they'll get bored with Okemo's bland trails.  At Loon there are no activities (besides tubing), but the mountain is so varied it's worth it once they want to ski more than tube.  Okemo looks good on paper, but Loon is better once you're there.  Consider this:  You'll be on the mountain 6-8 hours a day.  You'll have 1-2 hours for activities.  Pick a better mountain, which I believe, is Loon.


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## ScottySkis (Apr 16, 2013)

Is 30 minutes to Killington s deal breaker, they have  better everything including natural snow fall.


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## xwhaler (Apr 16, 2013)

Loon is significantly more challenging than Okemo. Lincoln prob has more going on year round than Ludlow and you have access to the notches and N Conway on the Kancamangus for shopping for the wife.
I'd have a tough time getting a 2nd home at either mtn compared to other choices but if I had to pick I'd go Loon. Property taxes will be much higher in NH vs VT however.
My uncle has a place just outside Ludlow in Proctorsville that is my un-official 2nd home in the winter time. I'm more familiar with Okemo than Loon but would be happy to help answer any questions.
Are you committed to one or the other or possibly looking at other options with slopeside offerings?


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## Cannonball (Apr 16, 2013)

I have a weird perspective on this question.  I own in Lincoln....but I never ski at Loon.  Love the town but the mountain isn't for me.

Have to answer a few of the other's points before answering yours



HD333 said:


> Is there truely ski in/ ski out at Loon? Or are most of the condos across the street?


Yes, there are lots of ski in/out condos on Loon



ss20 said:


> Well, this is a hard question!
> At Loon there are no activities (besides tubing), but the mountain is so varied it's worth it once they want to ski more than tube.


Loon is packed with non-skiing activities.  Visit their webpage.



xwhaler said:


> Property taxes will be much higher in NH vs VT however.


Often true.  But actually not true in Lincoln, NH. Pretty reasonable tax rate at 12.73 and one of the lowest in the state. This as a result of large business tax base and a low resident:residence ratio.



New Daddy said:


> My family has narrowed down the candidates for our home mountain for the next 7-10 years to Loon and Okemo. Both have lots of beginner trails and true ski-in, ski-out properties, which is logistically important to engage the missus who definitely won't be out on the slopes as long as the rest.
> 
> I'm trying to list up the pros & cons for each (actually just the pros, as the pros for one resort would be relative cons for the other). Can people add what I may have missed?
> 
> ...



Travel time is a HUGE one.  An extra hour of travel will sometimes prevent you from going.  There are those late nights, or last minute decisions, or heavy traffic days, or bad weather days, when a 2 hour drive seems reasonable to tackle but 3 hours is just too much.  That is one of the top reasons we chose Lincoln over any other place.

You say more terrain variety at Okemo and that it skis bigger.  HD333 agrees with you, ss20 and I say the opposite,   So I guess it's subjective and you should go with how it feels to you on that one.

I don't ski Loon because I like Cannon better.  But with that said, I absolutely see the appeal for families. It's a resort that offers tons of activities for the whole family.  I know people with condos on Loon and it is a real community.

Good luck however you choose.


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## WWF-VT (Apr 16, 2013)

At  Loon you'll save an hour on the drive but lose that time in lift lines on the weekends.


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## riverc0il (Apr 16, 2013)

I couldn't disagree more that Okemo skis bigger and has more terrain variety than Loon. Skiable acreage... not sure with South Peak, haven't skied there since that was added to Loon. I am not saying these two things are reasons you should go to Loon. Solid intermediates might like Okemo better because it has a lot more long, uninterrupted blues. Whereas a lot of top to bottom at Loon is interrupted by Grand Junction. But I think Loon skis like its vertical says. You'd have to show me a topo to prove to me that it has 2k vert. And Okemo doesn't have as much steep, expert terrain. Loon's glades are more challenging as well. Loon has more depth and does it with a tad less acreage. Okemo to me has a lot of acres but it mostly all skis the same.


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

skiking4 said:


> Never een to loon, but You have kton 30+ min away for okemo. Personally tho, not the biggest fan of okemo. I don't find it the most interesting mountain.



That's a plus for Okemo. Because I don't take Vt 100 N to travel to Killington from home, it never occurred to me that K'ton is only about 30+ minute drive from Okemo. Thanks.!


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

HD333 said:


> If you are talking about buying then Lincoln to me makes more sense as far as off season use, from what I hear Ludlow basically shuts down in the off season.



I was actually wondering about that too. It's a shame that Ludlow shuts down in the off season, because its business is abundant and booming in the winter. For example, the wine shop in Ludlow (forgot the name) that was not even on Main St. was as decent as any in my own town, whereas the one in Lincoln can't even stock one wall with wine.  And also no contest in the restaurants department, especially if you include the ones inside the resort. But if all that is just for the winter... mmm..


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Is 30 minutes to Killington s deal breaker, they have  better everything including natural snow fall.



They don't have ski-in, ski-out properties as far as I know.


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

WWF-VT said:


> At  Loon you'll save an hour on the drive but lose that time in lift lines on the weekends.



Is Loon clearly worse? At Okemo, the line gets pretty bad at North Star Quad too, although I think the worst I've seen was the Gondola at Loon on a busy day.


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

xwhaler said:


> Are you committed to one or the other or possibly looking at other options with slopeside offerings?



We're not committed to either, but I think we've done pretty extensive research to narrow down to the two. A third candidate would have been Bretton Woods, as they have nice slopeside townhomes, which are expanding along Crawford Ridge, and the best scenery of all. But even for an advanced skier who's willing to settle for Okemo for the sake of the family, Bretton Woods is too lacking in terrain. 

Other resorts with ski-in/ski-out condos that we have visited and considered are Stratton, Stowe and Sunday River. But echoing what Cannonball mentioned, the driving to those destinations is a big con.  It's not just the absolute driving time but the route conditions that I need to consider for my wife. Loon is the easiest two-hour driving you can do, mostly on interstates on cruise mode absent traffic. Okemo also is not bad at all, as the last one hour on Route 131 is not overwhelming even on snowy nights. I'll take the three hour to Okemo over 2.5 hour to North Conway on Route 16 any day.


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## Cannonball (Apr 16, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> I was actually wondering about that too. It's a shame that Ludlow shuts down in the off season, because its business is abundant and booming in the winter. For example, the wine shop in Ludlow (forgot the name) that was not even on Main St. was as decent as any in my own town, whereas the one in Lincoln can't even stock one wall with wine.  And also no contest in the restaurants department, especially if you include the ones inside the resort. But if all that is just for the winter... mmm..



You need to get to know Lincoln better. Excellent wine shop in town (Abbey Cellars).


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## bigbob (Apr 16, 2013)

Sunrise and Topridge at Bear Mnt. A friend of mine skis to Bear when it is open from Topridge almost every day , she only drives early/late season to the K 1 lodge. Lives there year round and has a spectacular view. It can get a bit breezy at times however!

 Having worked in the Lincoln/ Franconia area in the summer, it is very busy on the south side of the notch and they roll up the sidewalks in Franconia at 7 PM.


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> You need to get to know Lincoln better. Excellent wine shop in town (Abbey Cellars).



Actually that's the one I was talking about. Unless my memory is wrong, they had wine only on less than one side of their walls. The staff is very nice though. No doubt about that.


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## bobbutts (Apr 16, 2013)

I feel contrary on some of this too.
North Peak and South Peak quads at Loon both ski pretty big when comparing to Northstar.
Lincoln has more going on vs. Ludlow.
Cannon is very close and adds lots of variety.
93 is an easier and more consistent drive than 103 in addition to shorter


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## Stache (Apr 16, 2013)

FWIW  NH State Sales tax 0.0% VT sales tax 7-10% on prepared food and alcohol.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 16, 2013)

Will this be hotel based ski travel?  Seasonal Rental?  Buying a second home?


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## deadheadskier (Apr 16, 2013)

Stache said:


> FWIW  NH State Sales tax 0.0% VT sales tax 7-10% on prepared food and alcohol.



New Hampshire's Rooms, Meals and served Alcohol tax is 9%.


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## riverc0il (Apr 16, 2013)

Stache said:


> VT sales tax 7-10% on prepared food and alcohol.


NH taxes 9% meals tax so that point is moot.


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Will this be hotel based ski travel?  Seasonal Rental?  Buying a second home?



Second home. Until the kids refuse to ski with their parents.


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## New Daddy (Apr 16, 2013)

bigbob said:


> Sunrise and Topridge at Bear Mnt. A friend of mine skis to Bear when it is open from Topridge almost every day , she only drives early/late season to the K 1 lodge. Lives there year round and has a spectacular view. It can get a bit breezy at times however!



Thanks for the info! Had no idea there were ski-in/ski-out over at Bear. I'll check it out. But if it's at Bear, I have to admit its value as ski-in/ski-out for my wife diminishes a bit.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 16, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Second home. Until the kids refuse to ski with their parents.



I would make yourself very familiar with Vermont's tax policy towards second home owners in Gold Towns and the stiff capital gains taxes they charge on resales within 7 years of purchase.  NH has hefty property tax rates in a lot of towns too, but you won't pay the same tax penalties should you need to sell the asset.  Just something to consider outside of the skiing product and community attributes.


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## bigbob (Apr 16, 2013)

From the condo's to the Skye peak Quad is an intermediate trail. Once at the top of the SPQ you can also access intermediate terrain, don't let the Bear access  scare you!


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## witch hobble (Apr 16, 2013)

I grew up skiing Okemo and now live near Loon, although like Cannonball I also choose Cannon over Loon.

We used to call Ludlow "Dudlow".  These days there is a little more going on in the eve, and A LOT more going on in the summer since the golf course was acquired and all the subsequent development around the mountain in the last 12 years.  But still definitely the off season.

Lincoln is a lot more of a gateway town as well as a destination, with a busier main street in the spring/summer/fall (ever seen it on a clear Columbus Day weekend with the Kanc foliage going strong?  It's insanity!!)  Closer to the "off season" activities that I prefer.

Your kids are lucky either way.  But if it were me.....2 hrs less driving time every weekend and more challenging terrain would make Loon the choice.  If you go up 10 times a year, and own the place for 10 years, thats 200 fewer hours you've spent in the car.


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## abc (Apr 16, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> A third candidate would have been Bretton Woods, as they have nice slopeside townhomes, which are expanding along Crawford Ridge, and the best scenery of all. But even for an advanced skier who's willing to settle for Okemo for the sake of the family, Bretton Woods is too lacking in terrain.


You're not a fan of skiing trees then? Your kids would love that!


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## Cannonball (Apr 16, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Actually that's the one I was talking about. Unless my memory is wrong, they had wine only on less than one side of their walls. The staff is very nice though. No doubt about that.



A minor point on your whole desicion making, so not to derail or overstate, but yeah you might not be thinking of the same place. This is a very good wine shop with four walls (plus many stands) of good wines. Plus cheeses,  olives, etc. 

They also run an odd shop next door of craft beer,  cigars  and video rentals.  ?


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## 2knees (Apr 17, 2013)

I too would pick Loon in a heartbeat for terrain.  Not that it's great, but in comparison to okemo it'll keep you far more interested. Trees at Loon are way better too but natural snow can definitely be an issue.

good luck with your decision.


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## C-Rex (Apr 17, 2013)

I've never been to Loon but it's gotta be better than Okemo.  I get bored at Okemo in a day, can't imagine if I were there every weekend.  If you can make the extra drive to Killington, definitely do that.  Way more of everything you'd want and when it's super busy, you can head to Pico and avoid the big crowds.


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## steamboat1 (Apr 17, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Thanks for the info! Had no idea there were ski-in/ski-out over at Bear. I'll check it out. But if it's at Bear, I have to admit its value as ski-in/ski-out for my wife diminishes a bit.



Besides Sunrise Village over at Bear there are also condo's/town houses along the lower section of the Skyeship gondola.


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## Gilligan (Apr 17, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Besides Sunrise Village over at Bear there are also condo's/town houses along the lower section of the Skyeship gondola.



Be aware that at Killington all the ski-in/ski-out condos tend to only have their trails open from Christmas to early April. At the beginning and end of K's long season nothing is trailside, not even the Grand. Many prefer to just be on the shuttle bus route.


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## OkemoMountain (Apr 17, 2013)

In the spirit of full disclosure, I work in the marketing department at Okemo Mountain Resort. I have also worked at Loon in a similar capacity.

First off, I have to say ... PICK OKEMO!

Here's why: Okemo has been operated for 30 years by Tim and Diane Mueller. They know their business and they know what families want in a ski resort. They raised their two children here (now working in the industry, at sister resort Crested Butte, in Colo.) At Okemo, you and your family would become part of the Okemo family. It's an intangible thing that is impossible to explain, but it's a huge difference between Okemo and every other resort. 

You are spot-on with your list of pros for Okemo. A couple of things I would add are:
- reliable conditions. Okemo's snowmaking and grooming is superlative and is recognized regularly by the readers of SKI Magazine. Every resort has snowmaking and grooming capabilities, but Okemo takes it to a new level. The real test to consider is recovery time when a weather situation occurs. Okemo's recovery time second-to-none and you can count on Okemo to deliver when Mother Nature shows her fury. 
- family friendly by design. While it's true that Okemo doesn't offer anything like Sunday River's White Heat or Mad River Glen's Paradise, what you'll find is that your wife and kids will have choices from the top of every lift. The only lift that doesn't have a green circle route down is the Jackson Gore Express. Tuckered out was designed as an easy trail, but we heard from our guests (yes, we listen to our guests and act on suggestions) that they thought it offered more challenge than most of our beginner trails, so we changed its designation to blue square. Also, because of the topography of the mountain, snow stays put on our trails better ... making for better surface conditions longer into the day. You'll also find that Okemo's trails were designed to have fewer intersections or trail crossings, reducing your chances for collisions at trail junctions. Other winter day trip destinations? Killington and Pico are the closest, but there's also Magic, Stratton, and Mount Snow is just an hour away. 

In reviewing your list of Loon pros, I have to admit the drive is shorter. Non-winter activities? Did you know there are four lakes running parallel to Route 100, just north of Okemo? There's even a state park with a beach and picnic area. http://www.vtstateparks.com/htm/plymouth.htm Buttermilk Falls is one of the finest swimming holes anywhere, plus there are lots of great hiking trails, biking routes and family attractions - and I haven't even started telling you about Okemo's new Adventure Zone, with a mountain coaster, zipline tours, disc golf, mini golf, bungee trampoline, climbing wall, big air bag, Segway tours and more. We also have two 18-hole championship golf courses and a Family Fore Course for families and people who are new to golf. And then there's scenery. I'm happy to hear you think that's debatable. On a clear day, we can see all the way to Mount Washington to the northeast and to Mount Manadnock toward the south. It's fun to pick out the trails of Stratton and Magic and even Mount Snow from the South Face summit. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we have our fair share of scenery.

I do hope you'll decide to make Okemo your home mountain. Please feel free to contact me with any questions, concerns, or if you just want to chat about Okemo .... pr@okemo.com


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## dlague (Apr 17, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I've never been to Loon but it's gotta be better than Okemo.  I get bored at Okemo in a day, can't imagine if I were there every weekend.  If you can make the extra drive to Killington, definitely do that.  Way more of everything you'd want and when it's super busy, you can head to Pico and avoid the big crowds.




I have been to Loon - though it was years ago, my experience was not great!  It was on Saturday and the lines were long!  At the time South Peak did not exist, so I would imagine that that area has helped a little to provide relief to lift lines.  However, I read this about Loon which discourages me:

"Loon Mountain hosts more skiers than any other resort in the state."

I have skied Okemo on several occassions and I do beleive that it skis bigger than Loon.  It has almost twice the acreage (650 vs 370).  The trail difficulty is evenly distributed at Okemo vs Loon being 60% blue.  Someone noted a longer season at Loon but their open and close dates are not much different.  Same closing date this year for example!  Okemo's Jackson Gore has an outdoor concert series every summer on weekends.


Considering Killington and Pico, well those two are good additional options especially if you want an extended ski season with K.  Driving Vt's winding roads is really cool and  if you have not been to VT much then it offers much to explore!

That said Loon is in the White Mountains and that is a beautiful area too!

Some one mentioned A Loon pass gets you Sunday River and Sugarloaf, but Okemo can get you Sunapee and Crested Butte (if you want to go west from time to time).

All in all - I am more of an Okemo/Vermont skiing fan.  I live in NH about 45 minutes from Loon yet I make the trek of 1.5 hours to Okemo.    Go figure!

Good Luck!


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## Angus (Apr 17, 2013)

dlague said:


> The trail difficulty is evenly distributed at Okemo vs Loon being 60% blue.



I believe the trail difficulty rating is specific only to terrain of the area. i.e. black diamonds at not equal between areas.

I've skied both places maybe twice in past 10 years. IMO, Loon's terrain is more difficult and I haven't skied in the south peak area.

It seems to me that Loon is making real effort to open on/before thanksgiving under boyne's ownership.


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## OkemoMountain (Apr 17, 2013)

Hey New Daddy,
PICK OKEMO! We would love to have you and your family join our family. Tim and Diane Mueller have been operating Okemo Mountain Resort for 30 years. They raised their two children here and they know what families are looking for in a home mountain. There's a certain something about Okemo that sets it apart from other mountains. When you make this your home mountain, you become part of something bigger than yourself. It's not a mountain or a community that people outgrow; it's the kind of place where traditions are formed and celebrated for generations. It's the kind of place you'll still want to visit as you grow older. It's the place where you'll enjoy skiing and riding with your grandchildren some day.


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## ss20 (Apr 17, 2013)

OkemoMountain said:


> Hey New Daddy,
> PICK OKEMO! We would love to have you and your family join our family. Tim and Diane Mueller have been operating Okemo Mountain Resort for 30 years. They raised their two children here and they know what families are looking for in a home mountain. There's a certain something about Okemo that sets it apart from other mountains. When you make this your home mountain, you become part of something bigger than yourself. It's not a mountain or a community that people outgrow; it's the kind of place where traditions are formed and celebrated for generations. It's the kind of place you'll still want to visit as you grow older. It's the place where you'll enjoy skiing and riding with your grandchildren some day.



Really, I thought you would say Loon!  Are you going to just try to suck people in to going to Okemo, or will we be able to ask you questions about the mountain?  In other words, are you SPAM or a mountain rep who we can ask stuff.


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## jack97 (Apr 17, 2013)

I would pick loon in a heartbeat. imo loon has more variety in terrain from blues to black however the greens are somewhat limited. It has about three to four trail, one of them merges with several trails and it gets significant traffic. Since they have limited newbie terrain, these trails get crowded fast. The later could be a factor if you have children learning to ski. 

Having said that I would still find a second home around that area, its close to bretton woods which is a hidden jewel for early season snow. The place is in a notch that traps the cold from the presidential mountain range, so it tends to get natural snow when the rest of the resorts down the 93 corridor gets rain. Believe me, I have seen that happen on many occasions around Xmas break. btw please keep this a secret 

 In case you have friends our family that can't take all that skiing, Conway is about an hours drive along the highway. IMO you can't you go wrong in that area.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 17, 2013)

I can see the appeal of people suggesting Loon over Okemo regarding better advanced skiing terrain; perhaps even terrain overall depending on preferences.  When pointing out other skiing options nearby though, Okemo wins easily.  Magic and Killington/Pico are both within 30 minutes; Stratton and Bromley 45.  Cannon is a great close alternative, Bretton Woods and Burke have their merits, but there's a heckuva a lot more skiing close by Okemo as well as more snow than there is in the Northern Whites and on up to Burke.

A good point was also made concerning water sports in the summer time.  I spent a lot of time boating on Lake Rescue and Echo Lake as a kid in the summer months and canoeing on Lake Amherst, Pauline and Woodward Reservoir.  If you're a golfer, Okemo's course is top notch as well.


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## riverc0il (Apr 17, 2013)

Damn. Nice sales pitch, Okemo. :roll:


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## gmcunni (Apr 17, 2013)

perhaps it is just me and my "day tripper" mentality but location as it relates to other nearby mountains seems like it would be low on the list of priorities.  i'd assume (perhaps incorrectly) that a 2nd home near a mountain = season passes for the family (unless you are looking for limited use and renting out the place frequently).  visiting other mountains means $$ out of pocket which i'd guess was not an advantage.


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## ss20 (Apr 17, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> Damn. Nice sales pitch, Okemo. :roll:



Yeah, really!  Family...family...Muellers...Where's the mountain!?!?


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## deadheadskier (Apr 17, 2013)

Guys take it easy.  Its not unheard of for an employee of a ski area to sing the merits of their mountains.  We've seen it from many different ski areas and quite frankly we welcome industry participation in the forums.  No need to get nasty about it.  Don't like it, then ignore it.....or take it as an opportunity to present constructive criticism about where you think they can improve their product.


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## riverc0il (Apr 17, 2013)

I wasn't worked up before, just rolling my eyes a bit and giving a gentle ribbing where it was deserved. But NOW I am going to get worked up...

With endorsements like that, it won't be long before any thread mentioning a particular mountain has an industry insider extolling the virtues of why their mountain is better than the competition. Why go to the BEWI Ski & Snowboard Expo in Boston when you can come to AlpineZone and get the same sales pitch. 

You don't think that post from Okemo was a little over the top? They haven't even requested an official Industry Insider badge. I don't think I've ever seen any mountain rep delivery a sales pitch post quite that over the top. Personal feelings aside, from a business perspective, that is a textbook case of what NOT to do with social media.


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## gmcunni (Apr 17, 2013)

welcome Mr. Okemo, your input is appreciated here.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 17, 2013)

Not as over the top as your NOW worked up response, that's for sure.  :lol:

Maybe you choose to ignore it because you like other mountains better but reps from other mountains fluff their mountain plenty on here.  Perhaps not in such a lengthy post but they do it.  

If you think its bad business and poor form for social media, well you've got their email now.  Maybe send them some tips.


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## WWF-VT (Apr 17, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> perhaps it is just me and my "day tripper" mentality but location as it relates to other nearby mountains seems like it would be low on the list of priorities.  i'd assume (perhaps incorrectly) that a 2nd home near a mountain = season passes for the family (unless you are looking for limited use and renting out the place frequently).  visiting other mountains means $$ out of pocket which i'd guess was not an advantage.



You are correct.  I am a season pass holder at Sugarbush and with kids involved in the weekend programs it limits both interest and ability to go to other mountains especially when you have to drop big $$ for day tickets.


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## ss20 (Apr 17, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> I wasn't worked up before, just rolling my eyes a bit and giving a gentle ribbing where it was deserved. But NOW I am going to get worked up...
> 
> With endorsements like that, it won't be long before any thread mentioning a particular mountain has an industry insider extolling the virtues of why their mountain is better than the competition. Why go to the BEWI Ski & Snowboard Expo in Boston when you can come to AlpineZone and get the same sales pitch.
> 
> You don't think that post from Okemo was a little over the top? They haven't even requested an official Industry Insider badge. I don't think I've ever seen any mountain rep delivery a sales pitch post quite that over the top. Personal feelings aside, from a business perspective, that is a textbook case of what NOT to do with social media.



That wasn't a sales pitch.  It was PICK OKEMO in caps and then a rambling about families.  OK, I'll stop with the insults now.  It is great to have another mountain on the Alpine Zone Forums.  Welcome Okemo.


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## snoseek (Apr 17, 2013)

If you're going to make this big investment I would maybe consider being more flexible on either drive time or being slopeside. I would imagine both areas would get pretty old after a certain amount of time and thats not dissing either mountain, just saying that the next several years might be spent at more of a skiers mountain or area.

Between the two I would reluctantly pick Lincoln myself just because of close access to all the goodness the whites have to offer in the other seasons...plus overall I think Loon has better diversity. 

I would think a place like Burke would be fun...plus you can hit Jay with that pass. Good mtb riding up there, buy some bikes with the money you'll likely save and ride KT all summer.


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## steamboat1 (Apr 18, 2013)

OkemoMountain said:


> Hey New Daddy,
> PICK OKEMO! We would love to have you and your family join our family. Tim and Diane Mueller have been operating Okemo Mountain Resort for 30 years. They raised their two children here and they know what families are looking for in a home mountain. There's a certain something about Okemo that sets it apart from other mountains. When you make this your home mountain, you become part of something bigger than yourself. It's not a mountain or a community that people outgrow; it's the kind of place where traditions are formed and celebrated for generations. It's the kind of place you'll still want to visit as you grow older. It's the place where you'll enjoy skiing and riding with your grandchildren some day.


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## stomachdoc (Apr 18, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Second home. Until the kids refuse to ski with their parents.



We've owned property at Waterville for about 10 years. We transitioned from being seasonal(winter) renters to owners and one of my questions was what--if anything--would we do with the property in the summer?  We actually used the house as much in the summer as we did in the winter--the White Mountains are fantastic in the summer.  If there is truly no summer season in Ludlow/environs then I would consider Loon seriously. If you are looking to purchase property, you're gonna be paying a mortgage all year, so look for a property you can use all year (well, OK, not mud season)  Plus, you might decide to rent out your property in the summer--easier to do if there is stuff going on.


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## OkemoMountain (Apr 18, 2013)

Harshness! Please pardon my passion for Okemo (yes, I am a resort representative and didn't realize I needed some identifying badge - I'm new here). I certainly didn't mean to create such a stir. And I'm sorry if anyone mistook my heartfelt enthusiasm for a two-by-four-between-the-eyes sales pitch.


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## St. Bear (Apr 18, 2013)

OkemoMountain said:


> Harshness! Please pardon my passion for Okemo (yes, I am a resort representative and didn't realize I needed some identifying badge - I'm new here). I certainly didn't mean to create such a stir. And I'm sorry if anyone mistook my heartfelt enthusiasm for a two-by-four-between-the-eyes sales pitch.



Nick, hook him up!


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## o3jeff (Apr 18, 2013)

I would do a rental at the areas or spend more time at them to make sure they fit your needs before you invest in a property.


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## bobbutts (Apr 18, 2013)

o3jeff said:


> I would do a rental at the areas or spend more time at them to make sure they fit your needs before you invest in a property.


That is a really good point.  After a season of renting they are likely to have a better idea if they want to commit to multiple years at that resort.  Also they should know the local area better which may help in the search for condo to purchase.


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 18, 2013)

I'm going out on a limb here and assume your child/children are/is pretty young...   Lets be real, kids would love either of these mountains!  When I was a kid I skied at Whaleback and was perfectly happy - Okemo or Loon would have been that much better...  If I had this particular "problem", I would choose Loon.  It's an hour closer, and that's a big deal.  However, I think more importantly if you will use this place in the summer, the white mountains have more stuff to do with a young family.  We love to bring our 3 and 5 year olds to Santa's Village and Story Land - and there are a ton of other options within striking distance.  Also, if you intend to rent it out at all, Lincoln is an attractive destination year round.


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## 2knees (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Guys take it easy.  Its not unheard of for an employee of a ski area to sing the merits of their mountains.  We've seen it from many different ski areas and quite frankly we welcome industry participation in the forums.  No need to get nasty about it.  Don't like it, then ignore it.....or take it as an opportunity to present constructive criticism about where you think they can improve their product.


 

Agreed. And I would like to add that what he/she said is nothing to get worked up over.  The badass hardcores in here ain't lookin for what that post is selling anyway.  :razz:


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## 2knees (Apr 18, 2013)

Savemeasammy said:


> I'm going out on a limb here and assume your child/children are/is pretty young...   Lets be real, kids would love either of these mountains!  When I was a kid I skied at Whaleback and was perfectly happy - Okemo or Loon would have been that much better...  If I had this particular "problem", I would choose Loon.  It's an hour closer, and that's a big deal.  However, I think more importantly if you will use this place in the summer, the white mountains have more stuff to do with a young family.  We love to bring our 3 and 5 year olds to Santa's Village and Story Land - and there are a ton of other options within striking distance.  Also, if you intend to rent it out at all, Lincoln is an attractive destination year round.



Story land and santas village are awesome for that age


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

2knees said:


> Agreed. And I would like to add that what he/she said is nothing to get worked up over.  The badass hardcores in here ain't lookin for what that post is selling anyway.  :razz:



Bingo

(not to say you're not hardcore Newdaddy.    I think I'm at least 37% hardcore New England skier and I grew up skiing Okemo.


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## New Daddy (Apr 19, 2013)

OkemoMountain said:


> Harshness! Please pardon my passion for Okemo (yes, I am a resort representative and didn't realize I needed some identifying badge - I'm new here). I certainly didn't mean to create such a stir. And I'm sorry if anyone mistook my heartfelt enthusiasm for a two-by-four-between-the-eyes sales pitch.



Don't take it too hard. I was actually glad that a Okemo representative was paying attention to the forum. But do stay on and interact, like some other resort representatives do. People appreciate it.


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## New Daddy (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for all the valuable insights and suggestions. We thought we had it all figured out by narrowing it down to Okemo and Loon, after years of research, visits, and elimination. But it looks like we should look into K'ton as well. I think we may start with a seasonal rental with an option to buy in even after we decide on the location, to see if the mountain doesn't get old too quickly.  I'll keep you guys posted.


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## Cannonball (Apr 19, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Thanks for all the valuable insights and suggestions. We thought we had it all figured out by narrowing it down to Okemo and Loon, after years of research, visits, and elimination. But it looks like we should look into K'ton as well. I think we may start with a seasonal rental with an option to buy in even after we decide on the location, to see if the mountain doesn't get old too quickly.  I'll keep you guys posted.



Good luck in your search. Really can't go wrong either way. And your approaching it right.  We did several month long rentals at different resorts, followed by 3 years of seasonal rentals before finally buying.


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## New Daddy (Apr 19, 2013)

Savemeasammy said:


> I'm going out on a limb here and assume your child/children are/is pretty young...   Lets be real, kids would love either of these mountains!  When I was a kid I skied at Whaleback and was perfectly happy - Okemo or Loon would have been that much better...  If I had this particular "problem", I would choose Loon.  It's an hour closer, and that's a big deal.  However, I think more importantly if you will use this place in the summer, the white mountains have more stuff to do with a young family.  We love to bring our 3 and 5 year olds to Santa's Village and Story Land - and there are a ton of other options within striking distance.  Also, if you intend to rent it out at all, Lincoln is an attractive destination year round.



Yes, the younger one will be 4 by next season and will be accepted by ski school for full day and be able to ride with us on bunny hills without tether, if she is on similar growth path to her older sibling. It means we will truly become a skiing family. My wife and I have been waiting for this point for long and wanted to coincide it with the purchase of our second home in the mountain. But after all the good advice, we will probably take a more judicious approach, rather than make a big, celebratory investment.

BTW, it's too bad they shuttered Whaleback. I always promised to myself I'd ski Whaleback some day whenever I passed by it on I-89. I wish I had acted on it. Nothing can be taken for granted these days.


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 20, 2013)

There are a number of community members who are trying to save Whaleback.  I'm not sure what their plan is, but they have a Facebook page called "Save the Whale" where they are collecting donations.  Perhaps they will be able to make a comeback!  It would be a loss to the Upper Valley if Whaleback were to shut down.  Lots of heartbroken kids...


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## spiderpig (Apr 29, 2013)

To reply to a couple of your posts, I can't compare Okemo to what Loon is today, but I am a lifelong Okemo skier. I skied Loon twice when they had the Mountain Dew Vertical Challenge finals (which now happen to be at Okemo), but that was many years ago, so I'll just stick to recommendations of Okemo. I think Lincoln is more active than Ludlow, which is part of the reason MDVC finals were located there for so many years.

Yes, the trails off of the Northstar ski big, but mid-season Saturdays, you'll want to stick to the other lifts between 9:00 and 3:00 (noon-1:00 is sometimes okay). I never ski Okemo on holidays, so I can't speak to how busy it gets at its peak. There is an easy trail from the top of every lift, and if you want to send the kids by themselves at some point, they won't get lost on the trails from the top of Jackson Gore or South Face. The top of South Face is actually the peak of the mountain.

I feel like Okemo has enough variety, but that may just be because I was brainwashed from a young age and like it there. They added three new glades this season, which are rated blue but ski more like blacks. Snowmaking and grooming is excellent, though some would say they overdo the latter. When you are skiing without the kids and there is natural snow, you can take almost 40 runs in a day, assuming an hour for lunch and almost no lift lines, and I have done that including glades, moguls, and groomers without repeating the main portion of a run. But you probably know some of this since you have skied there before.

If you do get tired of Okemo, there are six other resorts under an hour's drive away, and Mount Snow is just outside of that range. Unfortunately, Okemo and Stratton have dropped their season pass arrangement, but you do get access to Mount Sunapee, which might make your drive shorter on Sunday. I can't figure out exactly where you're driving from, but I would strongly discourage driving on VT-131 west of 106 while it's snowing; take VT-103 if that's not too far out of your way. Of course, that involves a big hill a few miles south of the intersection with 131.

It sounds wise to rent at a mountain for one season first. Good luck with your choice!


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## Nick (Oct 17, 2013)

OkemoMountain said:


> Harshness! Please pardon my passion for Okemo (yes, I am a resort representative and didn't realize I needed some identifying badge - I'm new here). I certainly didn't mean to create such a stir. And I'm sorry if anyone mistook my heartfelt enthusiasm for a two-by-four-between-the-eyes sales pitch.



Hi OkemoMountain

I can't believe I missed this post last year. We always welcome mountain reps on the forum, and yes of course I understand that every mountain rep is going to think their mountain is the best. That's obvious. 

Of course, the fact that you are a mountain rep probably makes it inherently less valuable when you say to pick Okemo, nothing personal, but it's not an unbiased opinion, right? 

Anyway, send me a PM if you want to chat more about getting an official industry badge on AZ and are interested in participating more going forward.


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## Nick (Oct 17, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> You don't think that post from Okemo was a little over the top? They haven't even requested an official Industry Insider badge. I don't think I've ever seen any mountain rep delivery a sales pitch post quite that over the top. Personal feelings aside, from a business perspective, that is a textbook case of what NOT to do with social media.



I hadn't even seen this post before. Yes, OkemoMountain gushing about Okemo Mountain is pretty over the top. Like a parent saying their child is the best child  of course they will think that. 

They should contact me so we can chat more about exactly what is / isn't allowed on the forum. I will send a PM.


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## St. Bear (Oct 17, 2013)

I hope he isn't scared off by the backlash, and continues to post here.  Industry reps are a great addition to this site.


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## drjeff (Oct 17, 2013)

Okemo is closer to the Long Trail Brewery than Loon is to the Moat Mountain Smokehouse - advantage Okemo! :beer:  

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## meff (Oct 17, 2013)

But Loon is closer to Woodstock Inn and Brewery than Okemo is to Long Trail... :beer:


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## Smellytele (Oct 17, 2013)

meff said:


> But Loon is closer to Woodstock Inn and Brewery than Okemo is to Long Trail... :beer:



+1


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## ScottySkis (Oct 17, 2013)

Their both great for families and learning.


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## Cannonball (Oct 17, 2013)

meff said:


> But Loon is closer to Woodstock Inn and Brewery than Okemo is to Long Trail... :beer:



But distance needs to be pro-rated.  Long Trail brewery is significantly better than Woodstock.  (speaking as someone who loves the Woodstock Brewery and goes there a LOT).


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## Edd (Oct 18, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> But distance needs to be pro-rated.  Long Trail brewery is significantly better than Woodstock.  (speaking as someone who loves the Woodstock Brewery and goes there a LOT).



This is the one not far from Killington?  Actually stopped there for the first time last year. Maybe I should check again because I'd take Woodstock in a heartbeat.


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## St. Bear (Oct 18, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> But distance needs to be pro-rated. Long Trail brewery is significantly better than Woodstock. (speaking as someone who loves the Woodstock Brewery and goes there a LOT).



Are you talking about the breweries, or the beer they brew?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 18, 2013)

I like long trail beer better than Woodstock but their brewpub is completely overrated.  It closes at 7 PM.  What's up with that?

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Cannonball (Oct 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I like long trail beer better than Woodstock but their brewpub is completely overrated.  It closes at 7 PM.  What's up with that?



Yup, Long Trail beer is much better than Woodstock's.  And while it's true the LT pub is stripped down and closes too early, the renovated Woodstock is more like a theme park now.  (again, speaking as someone who still spends a lot of time there and drinks a LLLLLLOOOOTTTTT of their beer)


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## Smellytele (Oct 18, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Yup, Long Trail beer is much better than Woodstock's.  And while it's true the LT pub is stripped down and closes too early, the renovated Woodstock is more like a theme park now.  (again, speaking as someone who still spends a lot of time there and drinks a LLLLLLOOOOTTTTT of their beer)



Not liking the renovated Woodstock Inn upper bar either but the lower bar is still the same when it is open. I actually like the Pigs ear better than any of the long trail offerings I have tried. Don't get me wrong I like Long trail as well.


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## dlague (Oct 18, 2013)

Reading this thread - I think you scared OkemoMountain away - three posts and done!

My vote Wostock Inn for atmosphere yes!  Long Trail for the beer yes!  Lontrail for atmosphere no!  Woodstock for beer - well the Pigs Ear Brown Ale is pretty good!


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## St. Bear (Oct 18, 2013)

Long Trail doesn't make a stout, therefore Woodstock wins.


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## Smellytele (Oct 18, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Long Trail doesn't make a stout, therefore Woodstock wins.



Some times they have a milk stout at the brewery


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## St. Bear (Oct 18, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Some times they have a milk stout at the brewery



If that's the case, they should not be keeping it a secret.


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## canobie#1 (Oct 18, 2013)

The one thing that Okemo beats Loon at is having a waffle cabin!


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## Zand (Oct 19, 2013)

I feel like the little ones might get fed up with Loon's lines on weekends. Gondola and Kanc both can get pretty ridiculous (30+ mins) and you can only avoid them by staying on the upper mountain and using the East Basin lifts, but those will also rack up the lines pretty fast. Haven't skied there since they expanded to South, so I can't speak for the lines over there... maybe it offers a break from the lines. On the other hand, yes Okemo's lines are ridiculous at the base quads and northstar, but once you get off those it's usually not bad at all. The upper mountain quads and triples, plus Solitude usually are pretty short waits on weekends. I also prefer the trails at Okemo to Loon, especially looking back to being a young beginner/intermediate 10-15 years ago.

As for drive time to Loon and stuff to do, Lincoln easily takes the cake there.


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## drjeff (Oct 19, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Long Trail doesn't make a stout, therefore Woodstock wins.



Au contraire! They make one hell of a coffee stout in their brewmasters series, and more stouts are starting to show up in their brown bag series

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## ScottySkis (Oct 19, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Au contraire! They make one hell of a coffee stout in their brewmasters series, and more stouts are starting to show up in their brown bag series
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



Coffee beer taste good I can't imagine that.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 19, 2013)

I've only skied Loon out of the two, but I t'm pretty sure that Okemo is larger.  That said, Okemo has a lot of very similar terrain whereas Loon has some variety.  Loon on midweek would be pretty good.  A Saturday though is a different story.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 20, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Au contraire! They make one hell of a coffee stout in their brewmasters series, and more stouts are starting to show up in their brown bag series
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



Long Trail offered a standard stout for years only available in a 22 ounce bottle.  I wonder when that was discontinued?  When I was getting into craft beers in the mid-90s, Long Trail Stout and Shipyard Bluefin Stout were two of my go to beers during winter time.  Instead of buying a six pack for the night, I'd just buy a couple of 22s of those brews.


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2013)

dlague said:


> Reading this thread - I think you scared OkemoMountain away - three posts and done!


i hope that's not the case but you do need a thick skin if you like Okemo on AZ.


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