# 2020-21 Sunday River



## uphillklimber (Nov 24, 2020)

x


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## mbedle (Nov 24, 2020)

Nice to hear, glad you got out.


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## Smellytele (Nov 24, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> I skipped opening day due to rain, but made it for 2nd day. The River has some terrain open, enough that you can realistically spread out. From the Barker lift, you can ski Jungle road to Punch or T-2 which brings you back to Punch. Ecstasy is open as is Right Stuff. All these trails were in pretty decent shape, given all the rain and cold temps from last night. They softened up as the day wore on, with the occasional ice patch here and there getting scraped off.  You can also take Lazy River, which is in similar shape, as is Tourist Trap. But, on Risky Business, between these trails, they are blowing snow, which made for some fun times over the whales and minor bumps starting to form. Off the Locke Triple, you can access the top of T-2 and Punch, which has a few rails set up.
> 
> What you may need to know is some of the new stuff going on with the RFID as well as COVID protocols. If you have picked up your pass since this past weekend, it is very likely activated. If it was mailed to you earlier in the year, you will likely need to get it activated at South Ridge or in the upstairs Barker Bar. They have a computer set up there. For restrooms, you need to access them from the downstairs entrance, and exit there as well. The single bathroom on the main level is employees only. It seems they are serving food, but the counters with condiments and napkins have been removed and there is no inside sitting. You enter the first door on the concrete patio, and exit the second door. My guess is that they are trying to establish and maintain a flow of traffic thru the building. To access the Barker Bar, where you can get your pass activated or re-activated, you need to go up the outside stairs to the Barker bar, there is a sign leading you there. Once activated, you go down the inside stairs and exit the second door.
> 
> ...


Did you ride the lift with Dan?


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## downdraft (Nov 24, 2020)

Thanks for the update Uphillclimber. Did 5 runs at SR in the rain yesterday on my mid-day work break. Great coverage. Always appreciate your posts.


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## machski (Nov 25, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> I skipped opening day due to rain, but made it for 2nd day. The River has some terrain open, enough that you can realistically spread out. From the Barker lift, you can ski Jungle road to Punch or T-2 which brings you back to Punch. Ecstasy is open as is Right Stuff. All these trails were in pretty decent shape, given all the rain and cold temps from last night. They softened up as the day wore on, with the occasional ice patch here and there getting scraped off.  You can also take Lazy River, which is in similar shape, as is Tourist Trap. But, on Risky Business, between these trails, they are blowing snow, which made for some fun times over the whales and minor bumps starting to form. Off the Locke Triple, you can access the top of T-2 and Punch, which has a few rails set up.
> 
> What you may need to know is some of the new stuff going on with the RFID as well as COVID protocols. If you have picked up your pass since this past weekend, it is very likely activated. If it was mailed to you earlier in the year, you will likely need to get it activated at South Ridge or in the upstairs Barker Bar. They have a computer set up there. For restrooms, you need to access them from the downstairs entrance, and exit there as well. The single bathroom on the main level is employees only. It seems they are serving food, but the counters with condiments and napkins have been removed and there is no inside sitting. You enter the first door on the concrete patio, and exit the second door. My guess is that they are trying to establish and maintain a flow of traffic thru the building. To access the Barker Bar, where you can get your pass activated or re-activated, you need to go up the outside stairs to the Barker bar, there is a sign leading you there. Once activated, you go down the inside stairs and exit the second door.
> 
> ...


Welcome back!  I got opening day as it was my last day off work in the month.  Been a while since I skied in the rain but it was definitely fun!  I used these gates at Loon last season and learned there that plastic orange piece is the sweet spot on these gates.  While it should pickup anywhere in the target zone, the closer to the orange patch, the better.  I have found the Boyne gates are more sensitive to the sweet spot than others I have used.  Have only tried with Boyne issued cards, anyone skiing with an Ikon pass post how it works for you.  The Boyne cards and Ikon are on different radio frequencies so it could differ.  My GorTex shell doesn't have an arm pocket for the pass, so I had mine in an arm band under my jacket and it worked great every one of the 15 passes at both lifts.  Locke will be interesting to see how they work that once we have terrain feeding in from both sides.


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## Jully (Nov 27, 2020)

Arrived just an hour or so before you left at 9:30 and crowds were there until 12ish and then everyone left. At their worst, Barker had a 7ish minute wait (maybe 10 groups in front of you in the corral). Lifts were ski on after 2.

Trails were soft and soaked, skied like May IMO. Had a great time. Some half decent bump lines formed on upper risky. Really impressed the River got this much open with pretty short snowmaking windows over the last week. Looking forward to continued improvements in their system.


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## downdraft (Nov 29, 2020)

I was out there Fri., Sat., and today. They have ski patrol and lifts attendants walking up and down the "ghost" lanes reminding skiers to make sure their masks are up and over their nose. From what I've heard, senior management is acutely aware of the consequences of lax compliance or worse. From what I observed, skiers in the lines were masked properly. The lines do bunch up a bit, but the ski lengths help maintain spacing. The only lodge I went into was Barker. Signage could be better, but the overall set up seemed well thought out. The one thing I saw that did concern me was the number of people on the Barker deck when I left at 1 today. Let's see what happens when they start selling day tickets.


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## mbedle (Nov 30, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Folks, just so you are aware of what the River is doing with the ski reports, here is a look at their map right now:
> View attachment 42670
> 
> The entire time I was there today, Cascades was closed. Who knows, maybe they finished the air pipe repair, but if that is the case, why is Monday Morning not also opened. I know, claim as many trails as you can for the deceptive, I mean, best looking trail report. I also am wondering how they got snow blown on Ski Back, on the right side of the picture. Makes it look like more is open than there really is for someone considering if the drive is worth it today. Seems that trail was open most of last year as well. And there is no official way to get to that trail, that's a work road it connects with, not a trail, and some of it is flat or uphill.


Ski Back is not listed as one of their trails. It's also not highlighted to indicate that it is open.


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## Smellytele (Nov 30, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Take another look at it. It looks just like Broadway, Easy Street and Thataway, which are all open. This is with the filters showing open trails.


Look again no light green around the darker green line


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## downdraft (Nov 30, 2020)

Maybe it is a technical glitch with the site/map that leaves the single green line there. Lol, Boyne is good with bad tech. I want my Boyne rewards points back.


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## Vortex (Dec 1, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> I skipped opening day due to rain, but made it for 2nd day. The River has some terrain open, enough that you can realistically spread out. From the Barker lift, you can ski Jungle road to Punch or T-2 which brings you back to Punch. Ecstasy is open as is Right Stuff. All these trails were in pretty decent shape, given all the rain and cold temps from last night. They softened up as the day wore on, with the occasional ice patch here and there getting scraped off.  You can also take Lazy River, which is in similar shape, as is Tourist Trap. But, on Risky Business, between these trails, they are blowing snow, which made for some fun times over the whales and minor bumps starting to form. Off the Locke Triple, you can access the top of T-2 and Punch, which has a few rails set up.
> 
> What you may need to know is some of the new stuff going on with the RFID as well as COVID protocols. If you have picked up your pass since this past weekend, it is very likely activated. If it was mailed to you earlier in the year, you will likely need to get it activated at South Ridge or in the upstairs Barker Bar. They have a computer set up there. For restrooms, you need to access them from the downstairs entrance, and exit there as well. The single bathroom on the main level is employees only. It seems they are serving food, but the counters with condiments and napkins have been removed and there is no inside sitting. You enter the first door on the concrete patio, and exit the second door. My guess is that they are trying to establish and maintain a flow of traffic thru the building. To access the Barker Bar, where you can get your pass activated or re-activated, you need to go up the outside stairs to the Barker bar, there is a sign leading you there. Once activated, you go down the inside stairs and exit the second door.
> 
> ...


I will be up there full time this Winter.  Hope we can grab a run or Two.  I am going to an arm band for the pass.   My pass worked about 70% of the time.  Been a rough start but SR has done well IMO.  Lines look longer than they appear due to Spreading out.  Patrol was making sure you had a facemask on. it is what it is, and we need to comply or no lift service e.  The River did a nice job and I give them props.


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## 2Planker (Dec 1, 2020)

Barker had a lil water issue last night.....

 Just what they needed now....
2020 will never end


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2020)

2Planker said:


> Barker had a lil water issue last night.....
> 
> Just what they needed now....
> 2020 will never end
> View attachment 42682


Their snowmaking director posted in a couple of FB groups that a culvert not too far uphill from the Barker base blocked up late yesterday in all the rain and caused it to overflow and rush towards the pump house. Apparently, even though it looks ominous, that a couple of trucks of fill and 36-48 hour of snowmaking in the area and "you'll never know anything happened" 

So apparently there wasn't any damage to the pump house or the pipes in the washout area, which is good news for sure


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## Newpylong (Dec 5, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> While skiing yesterday, we took opportunity to ski what is commonly called backside of Barker (It's actually Lower Lazy River coming from South Ridge area). We wanted a good look at the stream that got blocked up and caused the huge gully to be eroded out just behind the base of Barker lift. It's a small stream, just about anyone could jump across it. But it is in a pretty good gully, and if there is a huge rainstorm, that gully could fill up, and if the culvert is blocked, You can see how easily it would blow thru.  They have it rebuilt now, and placed 4 large boulders over the top of the culvert opening, dressed up pretty good now. I might be wrong about this, but I think the culvert exits to the South Ridge side of the pump house. From the parking lot, it appears, IIRC to be about a 5' culvert. I saw the excavator working on that end of it as I was leaving yesterday.
> 
> Anyways, they have it all fixed up now, Back to skiing, which should get markedly better with this weekend's wet heavy snow, just what we need for base material on so many trails yet to be covered!!!


Yes that is where it exits. They've been using a ton of air making not much snow on Kansas in terrible wet bulbs only because it's up higher. 

They're going to try to get the Chondola next and Roadrunner down to White Cap (for hotel access) and Obsession.


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## Newpylong (Dec 5, 2020)

I wasn't there that's from one of my contacts at the River. I laughed when I read the Snowmaking Manager said a "few loads of fill" lol. Slight understatement.


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## Newpylong (Dec 6, 2020)

Big blowout on the Roadrunner line (buried) last night, this one feeds all of White Cap. Trying to fix today. Cascade had a blow out a couple days ago as well.


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## Smellytele (Dec 6, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Big blowout on the Roadrunner line (buried) last night, this one feeds all of White Cap. Trying to fix today. Cascade had a blow out a couple days ago as well.


seems like a common theme there


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## skinowworklater (Dec 6, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> seems like a common theme there


Yeah, that's our good old aging infrastructure just saying hello again.


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## Newpylong (Dec 6, 2020)

Gigantic amount of deferred maintenace on that snowmaking system to get ahead of. Let's hope they're some bennies to get it done, the right team is in place now to see it through.


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## Riverveteran (Dec 6, 2020)

They were making snow on Tempest today, couldn't have been too bad.....


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## machski (Dec 6, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Big blowout on the Roadrunner line (buried) last night, this one feeds all of White Cap. Trying to fix today. Cascade had a blow out a couple days ago as well.


Roadrunner seems to blowout about every other year or so.  As to Tempest, only Upper Tempest was running and I believe that line splits off/feed by Cascade.


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## machski (Dec 6, 2020)

Windholds reappeared today really testing the "your car is your baselodge" thinking this year.  Place was packed for just 4 scheduled lifts (not shocked with first real snowstorm).  Skiing was nice, skinned Barker and Locke before those lifts started loading.  Actual open trails were nice, dropping some of the closed lower angled stuff off Locke was sublime.


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## Newpylong (Dec 6, 2020)

Yes, Tempest is fed off the Locke feed (specifically Cascade) as Roadrunner will not be fixed until tomorrow. 

Roadrunner is a 12" buried, very thin walled (original LBO) pipe that direly needs to be replaced. 

They're currently running 6400 GPM so they're pumping it out.


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## Hawk (Dec 7, 2020)

skinowworklater said:


> Yeah, that's our good old aging infrastructure just saying hello again.


The issue at Sunday River is the same issue that Sugarbush is having.  Les Otten purchased bulk piping for several resorts from China.  It was made of very cheap carbon steel that's life span is well over.  The blowouts will become more frequent as time goes on and will travel across the mountain and be more frequent in areas like Arora and Jordan.


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## Newpylong (Dec 7, 2020)

Those are going to be the last areas to have issues. The pipes are not as old, have less operating hours, aren't buried, and far less pressure.

Yes, in the race to expand they did put in a lot of bad pipe all over in the early to mid 90s, and poorly designed valve stations that most ex-ASC areas are paying for.


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## Hawk (Dec 7, 2020)

At sugarbush, they replaced the big main from the mad river up to the resort.  The whole thing was buried.  One of the workers told me the pipe just crumbled when they pulled it out of the hole.  They estimated that they were loosing something like 10% of their flow from small leaks and major blow outs were occurring yearly at the end.


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## Newpylong (Dec 7, 2020)

Yep, just like SR's River feed before they replaced it.

I lived in Waitsfield in the mid-90s when they put that pond in, the feed line, etc. Quite the project, especially with all of the lifts, etc.


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## Bumpsis (Dec 10, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Some nice skiing today and it seems it is only going to get better. They opened up Mixing Bowl today, it was fun skiing over the whales. They are blowing snow all over the place, apparently looking to have a big opening of new trails for the weekend. Monday, everyone is eligible to ski, not just pass holders. We are getting some good warm ski weather. Come get some!!!


"Come and get some!!" Easy for you to say. I'd love to if the state of Maine would let me. Those pesky COVID travel restrictions will keep the crowds down. If you lucky to live in ME or NH you'll be getting plenty of wide open slopes at SR probably through February. I'm guessing or more like hoping that the infection rates/death rates will be abating by March, so travel restrictions will no longer be an issue.


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## Smellytele (Dec 10, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> "Come and get some!!" Easy for you to say. I'd love to if the state of Maine would let me. Those pesky COVID travel restrictions will keep the crowds down. If you lucky to live in ME or NH you'll be getting plenty of wide open slopes at SR probably through February. I'm guessing or more like hoping that the infection rates/death rates will be abating by March, so travel restrictions will no longer be an issue.


Same restrictions in VT and that isn’t stopping too many.


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## machski (Dec 10, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Same restrictions in VT and that isn’t stopping too many.


Actually, worse restrictions in Vermont as you don't have an option to test in lieu of Quarantine like Maine allows.  Though I have heard of Maine State Troopers ticketing folks required to Quarantine or test if they are asked and admit to not.  Have not heard that of Vermont.


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## cdskier (Dec 10, 2020)

machski said:


> Actually, worse restrictions in Vermont as you don't have an option to test in lieu of Quarantine like Maine allows.  Though I have heard of Maine State Troopers ticketing folks required to Quarantine or test if they are asked and admit to not.  Have not heard that of Vermont.



On the flip-side though, VT allows the quarantine to be done in your home state...Maine requires it be done IN Maine. So to me that makes Vermont's rules easier than Maine's for some people.


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## skiur (Dec 10, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Wow!!!Actually ticketing now. I thought it HAD been on the honor system.



There have been people who have said there friends cousins ex wife got ticketed, but I have seen no proof of it actually happening.


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 11, 2020)

cdskier said:


> On the flip-side though, VT allows the quarantine to be done in your home state...Maine requires it be done IN Maine. So to me that makes Vermont's rules easier than Maine's for some people.


VT allows a 7 day quarantine and a negative test.  this doesn't really help day trippers but if you wanted to take a week up there you could...


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## skiur (Dec 11, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> VT allows a 7 day quarantine and a negative test.  this doesn't really help day trippers but if you wanted to take a week up there you could...



Vermont also allows you to quarantine at home.  So you can stay home for 2 weeks than daytrip without breaking any rules.


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## bigbob (Dec 14, 2020)

I just tried Sunday River's, Loon's, and Sugarloaf's websites and was not allowed to continue. Have they been hacked again??


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## cdskier (Dec 14, 2020)

bigbob said:


> I just tried Sunday River's, Loon's, and Sugarloaf's websites and was not allowed to continue. Have they been hacked again??


Looks like someone in their IT dept forgot to renew their SSL certs...they expired today at 7PM.


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## cdskier (Dec 14, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> CDSkier, can you give us a primer on how you found this and what it all means?



Your browser or anti-virus software may vary a bit...but for me when I try to go to their site I get a warning in my browser (actually from my AV software) that the connection isn't secure. If I click "View certificate" in this screenshot, that's where I can see the details on the certificate:


Certificates are what generate the encryption keys needed to access a "secure" or "https" website (years ago most sites were http and only redirected to https when you needed to do something like enter CC info, now most are https by default and the un-encrypted http versions are being phased out). Encrypted sites in theory prevent someone from intercepting the data traveling between your computer and the server since only the 2 end points have the keys to "unlock" the data.

Your browser or AV software warning you that the site isn't protected is because it checks the certs for any sites you try to access. It checks for a bunch of things including the dates it is valid from/to as well as whether it is "signed" by someone "trusted". I could get much more technical, but in a nutshell each cert is only valid for a certain length of time and then needs to be renewed.


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## downdraft (Dec 14, 2020)

Site seems to be fixed now.
Skiing at Sunday River was great yesterday. Fog drove people away and snow was soft and forgiving.


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## downdraft (Dec 18, 2020)

Skied from 1:00 to 3:45. As you said, crowded when I got out there, but it cleared out fast as the temp. dropped and sun set. Tomorrow, especially am, could be crowded.


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## Newpylong (Dec 18, 2020)

Tonight the River is making snow on Sensation, cyclone, state fair, lolla, obsession, heats off, top 1/3 of northern lights. They'll move to rogue angel qnd borialis tomorrow.


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## machski (Dec 19, 2020)

Lines were reasonable all day aside from Barker and South Ridge.  North Peak was busy at times, the Escapade side needs to be corraled up the trail rather than letting the line move across the entire bottom of the trail.  Locke, White Cap, Aurora and Jordan were mostly ski on.  T2 was open to the public in the morning anyway.  Heads up for the weekend, the Gould weekend only program kids are on hill in the morning, the full program kids in the Afternoon.  Sea like they like to keep the weekend kids on snow as much as possible, meaning they focus on T-Bar and MM.


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## machski (Dec 22, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Thanx for the report. I am anxious to run my bronze pass thru the gates tomorrow!
> 
> How were the lines managed at SR and Barker? I have seen the lines behind the gates become a cluster, clearly with  no social distancing, only top be totally clustered between the gates and the chair. Often times the lifties just keep waving people in, contributing to the clustering. Then I have seen other lifties holding people in line in the corrals until the last group at the gates is at the gate. Then they call the groups at the front of the two lines on either side, alternately, eliminating the cluster effect at the gates. And never an empty chair going up. No one was getting to the chair any faster or any slower.


At Barker, it was well managed all weekend.  Laterally spaced lines and I'm co for table with ski tail to tip longitudinal spacing.  Good sequence of lines from liftie managing.  Cannot comment to SR, didn't bother to venture there with North Peak spinning.  North Peak was a bit of a mess Saturday, the Escapade line side stretched across the base of the run.  They need to rope that and pull it up beside the lift.  Wasn't much line control of the three merging at the RFID gates Saturday though most groups allowed a respectful flow.  They had a liftie there on Sunday and it was more managed than Saturday.  Overall, I thought lines were not a big issue.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 22, 2020)

So who is excited for the Merrill Hill expansion?    In all seriousness, looks like no significant terrain to speak of.   Just real estate and access.


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## Dickc (Dec 22, 2020)

Sunday River accelerates Merrill Hill Project


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## machski (Dec 23, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> So who is excited for the Merrill Hill expansion?    In all seriousness, looks like no significant terrain to speak of.   Just real estate and access.


I have a friend who lives down on Monkey Brook Road (road out to the Jordan hotel) and he is stoked as he already has a skin route up the old cross country network to top of Merrill and backcountry line back down.  So he will have direct skin up access with lift served BC ski back.  Beyond that, while the runs are mostly ski access for the homes, I have seen some of the terrain, they may be fun to change things up/get away from crowds for a bit.  I'm far more interested to see if they did this right and it helps pump $$ back into the resort for other needed upgrades (west side water line and new Barker/Jordan lifts for starters).


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2020)

FYI the west side water source is not really a priority any more with the rebuilt River pumphouses and new feed line. They can get water pretty reliably over there.

The terrain looked kinda cool to the naked eye even if only condo access. Like you said, a nice change of pace if they're open to the public. My son loves exploring off the beaten path stuff like that. He makes us lap Sunrise at Killington  lol.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 23, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> FYI the west side water source is not really a priority any more with the rebuilt River pumphouses and new feed line. They can get water pretty reliably over there.
> 
> The terrain looked kinda cool to the naked eye even if only condo access. Like you said, a nice change of pace if they're open to the public. My son loves exploring off the beaten path stuff like that. He makes us lap Sunrise at Killington  lol.


I will never forget my first trip to Killington in March 1999 when on a whim a friend and I skied all the way down to the Sunrise Base and rode that long-ass triple back up.  Alas, it was gone shortly after that.  Some very interesting terrain down there.


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## machski (Dec 23, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> FYI the west side water source is not really a priority any more with the rebuilt River pumphouses and new feed line. They can get water pretty reliably over there.
> 
> The terrain looked kinda cool to the naked eye even if only condo access. Like you said, a nice change of pace if they're open to the public. My son loves exploring off the beaten path stuff like that. He makes us lap Sunrise at Killington  lol.


Reliably getting water over there hasn't really been the concern.  It's been being able to blow a lot efficiently on both ends simultaneously.  The west water supply is how they boost water capacity to upwards of 15,000 GPM onto the hill.  After this deluge coming right at Christmas, the ability to push that much snow right after an event like this for a holiday week may advance that project to the top of the heap again.  And I am assuming Merrill Hill is happening like the Snowmaking add to Ridge Run did with the Glades development, all the infrastructure on hill came out of the real estate budget/accounts and not mountain ops.


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## 2Planker (Dec 23, 2020)

Dickc said:


> Sunday River accelerates Merrill Hill Project


Been skinnin' those hills since the late 80's. 
Before Aurora/Jordan was even a twinkle in LBO's mind..


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> I will never forget my first trip to Killington in March 1999 when on a whim a friend and I skied all the way down to the Sunrise Base and rode that long-ass triple back up.  Alas, it was gone shortly after that.  Some very interesting terrain down there.


I just mean the shortened Triple!

I miss the Northeast Passage, those trails had a ton of character below Hawk's Nest. Noreaster was an insane cruiser.


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2020)

machski said:


> Reliably getting water over there hasn't really been the concern.  It's been being able to blow a lot efficiently on both ends simultaneously.  The west water supply is how they boost water capacity to upwards of 15,000 GPM onto the hill.  After this deluge coming right at Christmas, the ability to push that much snow right after an event like this for a holiday week may advance that project to the top of the heap again.  And I am assuming Merrill Hill is happening like the Snowmaking add to Ridge Run did with the Glades development, all the infrastructure on hill came out of the real estate budget/accounts and not mountain ops.


Yea but they're not looking at resolving it that way anymore. The two boosters for Jordan are 3,000 GPM out of a total 8,500 GPM out of Barker right now so it's not that bad. But the current plan is to put a booster station at the top of the Chondola and rebuild the Barker Pumphouse upping the total flow out of there.


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## Smellytele (Dec 24, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Just in case you missed it, the River is closing tomorrow, including no uphill traffic. It's gonna be a wet windy mess. They have a bunch of whales blow here and there, and they will *TRY*, as they always do, get the mountain back in shape after 2-3 days.


fixed


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## machski (Dec 24, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Yea but they're not looking at resolving it that way anymore. The two boosters for Jordan are 3,000 GPM out of a total 8,500 GPM out of Barker right now so it's not that bad. But the current plan is to put a booster station at the top of the Chondola and rebuild the Barker Pumphouse upping the total flow out of there.


You are likely right.  They were having a hell of a time trying to figure out the water line route to Jordan from the river and how to put in some type of holding pond out that way.  Given the new feed line of correct size and material, likely smarter to just boost that feed to the max.


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## skinowworklater (Dec 25, 2020)

machski said:


> You are likely right.  They were having a hell of a time trying to figure out the water line route to Jordan from the river and how to put in some type of holding pond out that way.  Given the new feed line of correct size and material, likely smarter to just boost that feed to the max.


What could possibly go wrong???????
That cheapo Chinese pipe might hold for a time.........
Maybe.


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## Newpylong (Dec 25, 2020)

It's ductile iron and it's pretty thick walled by design. I'd give it 30 years.

It is only 20" diameter so around 10,000 GPM max flowrate. They'll need to find another source if they want to go beyond that eventually. All the wet pits at the river are filled too so would need more powerful pumps.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2020)

Ski the East just posted this:


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## SLyardsale (Dec 30, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> I managed to get the grandkids for some skiing today. It's been a couple years. So... I was looking for a way to keep this affordable. I was surprised to see that the Sunday River beginner ticket was very competitive with Mt Abrams and Lost valley, which both are still not open. Even if they were, you know the snow and conditions at the river are more dependable, if accompanied by a larger crowd. I was happy with the conditions they had for the kids, they were never leaving the beginner area, though they seemed to pick it up fairly quickly again. I even doubled down the savings on a twilight ticket, about $10.00 less each and thinned out crowds. Their lighting will not compete with Shawnee, but it was very good and we built some great memories with all the fun!
> 
> I couldn't quite talk them into going up the chondie to the top of North Peak. Seems they are learning to respect their abilities and conditions. They could have done it, but it would have been as struggle for them at some of the steeper areas. Hoping to get them again!


I'd check out Lost Valley based on this trip report..

https://www.sugarloaftoday.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9188


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## downdraft (Dec 30, 2020)

Glad you had fun with the grandkids! Overall conditions at SR were not too bad today. The snowmaking quality has been kind of quick and dirty - quantity over quality, but the grooming efforts have eventually compensated for it.
(My nieces grew up sking at Lost Valley!)


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## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2020)

We had fun last night there.

Wind was brutal at times and the Chondie was running slower than South Ridge express. Tons of snowmaking going on they were maxed out on water.

Left side of Dreammaker had plenty of sugar left, but was very thin. Supposed to see a top dressing soon. That's all we did due to my novice daughter besides lower Escapade, Broadway etc. Forgot how good of a beginner area the SR Quad is. Tough to beat that.


----------



## machski (Dec 31, 2020)

Cannot complain about the mountain's efforts.  Today started out warmish (wind made it still feel cold) but they were pushing snow wherever they could, even if that meant only 4 guns down from the top of AmEx to start out on.  Excalibur under the guns to the last 1/3 was fun, even if the temps were resulting in a very wet product coming out.  Guns continued to come on lowere and lower on AmEx and Obsession as the day wore on and temps slowly kept dropping.  Lower obsession was a blast, best quality snow from snowmaking yesterday and overnight.  Risky a close second.


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## machski (Jan 8, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> It was a brisk cold windy day today, and the crowds were sparse. I think the weather and being a Thursday all contributed to it. As I skied around, I could see snow guns on American Express, which we skied under, White Heat, Airglow and Black Hole. I just gotta say I am impressed with the snowmaking efforts of the River. Even in a bad snow season, they give you a good ski season. When other local ski areas are just getting open, they have been open for a month and a half already and have, in some cases, more terrain open than the smaller areas have terrain.
> 
> The skiing was pretty good today, lots of soft snow around, but there were a few areas that were not so soft (Jibe). After the rains a couple weeks ago, they are pretty well recovered and rounding into mid season form.
> 
> Be aware that the North Peak  and Locke triple lifts are relegated to weekends only. They are having staffing issues, no immigrant workers this year, for obvious reasons. I have no way of knowing if or how the financial situation is impacted, I am just glad they are able to make a go of it and stay open.


Jibe likely was firm as it was just pushed out, should get better.  Yup, saw they posted on FB for lift operators.  Wonder if we will see Oz ever spin this season?  Little White Cap spins this weekend supposedly.  Crowds could be a bit bigger midweek on Tues/Wed all season, SR is offering tickets those non holiday days for as low as $59 if bought well in advance and not rising above $69 until 3 days out.  That is a good value, especially this season.


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## machski (Jan 10, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> Jibe did ski better today. The crowds were a bit bigger, Friday is the new Saturday with folks starting their weekend early. I saw little White Cap was groomed out, Assumption anyways, I can't imagine they didn't do the whole of it, but no lift operators to run the Little White Cap chair. The skiing just keeps getting better.


Little White Cap opened Saturday first thing.  Moonstruck/Green Cheese/Starlight all open.  Assumption will wait til WH is ready.  Lots of snow on that, could have been skiable Sunday but patrol was concerned the snowpack was a bit wet at points and that it could slide.  Airglow skied great on Saturday, Sunday was ok but some of the wetter whales firmed up overnight.  Suppose to get pushed out Sunday night, Upper never opened so hopefully that grooms out nice.  Paradigm and Black Hole are finished as well, they will likely cure another day before they get pushed out.  Grand Rapids was getting more snow Sunday, a bit wet so doubt they will groom that tonight.  Might be a good first or second run tomorrow!  Making snow like crazy still, plenty new runs coming later this week.


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## Newpylong (Jan 11, 2021)

Some info for the River folks:

Snowmaking has been on White Heat, Wildfire, Rocking Chair, 3D, Upper Downdraft, Lost Process, Cowardly Lion.

White Heat should be shutdown today and Salvation should come on.

Vortex should also come online today. Top Gun is being setup.

They are going thinner than usual trying not to skip any trails.


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## machski (Jan 11, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Some info for the River folks:
> 
> Snowmaking has been on White Heat, Wildfire, Rocking Chair, 3D, Upper Downdraft, Lost Process, Cowardly Lion.
> 
> ...


Not sure on the thinner than usual part.  The whale sizes on White Heat and 3D are larger than many of us can ever remember.


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## Newpylong (Jan 11, 2021)

machski said:


> Not sure on the thinner than usual part.  The whale sizes on White Heat and 3D are larger than many of us can ever remember.


Of course it is a general statement and snow depth varies by location year by year based on needs and snowmaking windows. Some will have more, some will have less.

But you can be sure of it considering that is from the person (close friend of mine) who decides what to put where and when and for how long there.


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## Newpylong (Jan 11, 2021)

They have more snow down that most. Crushing it...


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## Newpylong (Jan 13, 2021)

My aforementioned contact said they've already run 1,100 hours so far. That is a lot... we typically only ran 500 for the entire year (at a small area). I told him I think they've likely pumped more gallons than anyone else in the East. Really only a dozen or so trails left from what I saw. He said they're working in Wildfire, Southpaw, Cowardly Lion and Lost Princess now. Top Gun next, not sure after that.


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## downdraft (Jan 13, 2021)

Kudos to SR for their snowmaking efforts this year, very impressed.


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## machski (Jan 13, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> My aforementioned contact said they've already run 1,100 hours so far. That is a lot... we typically only ran 500 for the entire year (at a small area). I told him I think they've likely pumped more gallons than anyone else in the East. Really only a dozen or so trails left from what I saw. He said they're working in Wildfire, Southpaw, Cowardly Lion and Lost Princess now. Top Gun next, not sure after that.


They will need to keep it going, Saturday is not looking positive at this point.


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## machski (Jan 14, 2021)

The make on White Heat was awesome!!!


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## machski (Jan 14, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> White heat and Downdraft were both soft and edgeable. Awesome day!


Hope you found Lost Princess too.  A bit more moisture in that cover but super fun none the less!!


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## machski (Jan 15, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> I found Lost Princess. After skiing down it, the best skier in our group said it needs to soften up just a bit, a little more sun on it. I told him it'd be a little warmer in 10 minutes!


Yeah, I got to it around noon and it definitely firmed/locked up a bit overnight.  Was affraid it might do that.  Not sure how long you stayed out, but Vortex opened below Lights Out later in the day and skied nice, don't think they got it quite finished, but fun.  Southpaw opened too and skied great.  Salvation did too but didn't make it back over there.  They are definitely pushing hard, love it.  Noticed guns and hose pulled and set on Eureka, so looks like Oz will be completely blown in this season.  Figure Shockwave is up too after the storm, which is perfect timing.  Temps suppose to be more average next week.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 15, 2021)

I was told next up or to come back online next week is: Top gun, vortex, eureka, shockwave, south paw. And that's likely it. I know that leaves Agony and Quantum doesn't it? What else...


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## downdraft (Jan 15, 2021)

Yes, not sure why no Agony? Normally that would be ahead of Top Gun. But, no sign of any set-up there. Awesome that they are blowing Oz trails.


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## machski (Jan 16, 2021)

downdraft said:


> Yes, not sure why no Agony? Normally that would be ahead of Top Gun. But, no sign of any set-up there. Awesome that they are blowing Oz trails.


They always ice up Barker Quad when they blow Agony, so that is why Top Gun has been ahead of Agony.  They may hit Agony a bit now that we have some decent natural cover down first, more to "stretch" the natural.  We'll see, it skis good on natural assuming the upper rock ledge gets covered.

Quantum melts fast because of its exposure, still a bit surprised they didn't/won't hit that this year.  Fun trail and the only one that Quantum actually serves to lap.  You woud think they would want that option this year rather than Quantum just a reliever/back up lift.

The only other missing trails would be Backside, Polaris, Upper and Lower Chondi Line, Spectator and Exit Left.  Nothing substantial.


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## Newpylong (Jan 16, 2021)

I asked about snowmaking on Quantum and they said it sucks because of it's exposure it gets wind scoured. Unknown if they'll do it. I remember they didn't do it a bunch of years in a row.


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## machski (Jan 16, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I asked about snowmaking on Quantum and they said it sucks because of it's exposure it gets wind scoured. Unknown if they'll do it. I remember they didn't do it a bunch of years in a row.


True, but the last two years they have made it.  Of course, both of those years were better natural snow years to this point in the season to give them a better hand.

They've done great this season given the late start and crappy December.  Can't fault them if they leave off Quantum and Agony.


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## Newpylong (Jan 16, 2021)

Pipe is toast on Backside/Polaris so that won't run this year. Trail is kinda redundant anyway isn't it?


----------



## machski (Jan 16, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Pipe is toast on Backside/Polaris so that won't run this year. Trail is kinda redundant anyway isn't it?


Yes, backside does allow access to Quantum from Chondi or via Downdraft over.  Polaris is whatever it is.  Had they continued to use upper Dream as a park like they did for a time, the route to Quantum then Polaris off North summit might have been a nice alternative.  Now that they don't do that anymore, I don't think folks miss Polaris if they even know it exists.

Oh yeah, Ski Back too.  Not that they mad emuch last year, just used the one hydrant at the current dead end probably to check the line/valves.  Don't think any of the new 3 homes along it are finished yet to care.  Looks like where the line dead ends will continue up one of the new Merrill Hill runs when cut from the plans.  The flat part of what they cut up to Aurora road doesn't look to be used for actual trails, not sure why they cut it.


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## sugarbushskier (Jan 20, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> They got an inch and a half last night, and wow!!! Buttery smooth skiing until it skied off today. We did a couple runs on Lost Princess and Vortex, that helped with some of the hard packed moguls.
> 
> Otherwise it was a great day there. My buddy asked what we did to deserve this? I replied, everything, and we didn't get caught!
> 
> Really a great day skiing.


Heading up to SR on Friday and staying at Jordan Hotel for a couple of nights.  Looks like cold(er) weather progressing through the weekend, but winds consistently increasing each day.  

Where would you recommend skiing so that wind holds are minimized on Sat/Sun?


----------



## sugarbushskier (Jan 20, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> I hate to say it, but the Jordan lift typically gets the most wind holds. If it is windy at the River, it's likely to be windiest at Jordan. Little white Cap at the far other end seldom shuts down for wind, as it is well protected. White Cap (Tempest) seems to keep running in the wind. Barker, when it isn't breaking down (just kidding) can be fairly reliable. After that, it is pretty much up in the air based upon wind direction.
> 
> When I see 15 MPH winds or so, that seems to be a benchmark for when lifts will be shut down, more or less. You might be okay.
> 
> View attachment 50111


Thanks!  That's my feeling exactly about wind speed and lift holds at mountains.  I'll try to get out of Jordan area quickly, but hoping to get in a lot of terrain this weekend and looking to avoid the crowds and weather as much as possible.

I've got a negative covid test in hand and ready to ski!


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## machski (Jan 20, 2021)

sugarbushskier said:


> Thanks!  That's my feeling exactly about wind speed and lift holds at mountains.  I'll try to get out of Jordan area quickly, but hoping to get in a lot of terrain this weekend and looking to avoid the crowds and weather as much as possible.
> 
> I've got a negative covid test in hand and ready to ski!


Since you are staying out that side of the resort, the Oz Quad is quite insulated from NW winds and typically will run long after Jordan/Aurora/Spruce/Chondi go on wind hold.  They have been known to keep running that quad as an isolated pod.  They don't usually spin it until 10am Sat/Sun, keep an eye on it if winds kick up.  Was hoping they would have started making snow on Eureka by now, the guns have been setup since this past weekend.  Perhaps they froze a valve or two.  If they get started by tomorrow, that run could open this weekend.


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## Newpylong (Jan 20, 2021)

They are running at reduced capacity due to peak power usage periods, shutting down from 4-8pm daily. Not sure how long that'll go for, but expansion will be slow while that's occurring on the grid.


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## machski (Jan 21, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> They are running at reduced capacity due to peak power usage periods, shutting down from 4-8pm daily. Not sure how long that'll go for, but expansion will be slow while that's occurring on the grid.


Interesting, must be beyond their bulk power buy window.  Makes sense as normally they would have hit everythng by now and just be in snow maintenance mode.


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## Newpylong (Jan 21, 2021)

Correct. One is consumption over time (kWh - which can be part of a bulk purchase) and the other is apparent usage aka demand (kVa) ie peak usage which can be curtailed.


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## machski (Jan 21, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> The past couple days, Jordan lift has felt like it had a few square wheels on some of the upper towers. And the lift was closed today. Just guessing here, but maybe they were changing out wheels and bearings???? Anyone got the skinny on this?


The Mountain Report this morning said lift maintenance was dealing with a mechanical issue on Jordan and would start the day closed.  No specifics.  Did they run Oz in its stead?


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## sugarbushskier (Jan 21, 2021)

I was wondering as well if the Jordan lift has been repaired.  Arriving tomorrow and staying at the hotel so would rather not have to use the other lift if possible.


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## parahelia (Jan 22, 2021)

We are heading home tomorrow after an extended stay at our place at SR.  I have to say, I’m 100% happy with the effort put forth this season.  Snowmaking has been full on, they have covered nearly everything (I think they said 100 trails open?).  Lots of fun whales to be had on Vortex, Top Gun, etc.  The open naturals (like Upper Cut, Locke Line) were great and lightly trafficked.  The MLK storm plus the little refreshes all week long really improved things.

Only complaint is the woods still aren’t really ready.  I went in Wizard’s Gulch when they opened it, but it was pretty bony.  One more good storm and those should be good to go, too.

Above all, just grateful to be skiing this year.


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## parahelia (Jan 24, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> I was scammed, please disregard.


You had us worried there!!


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## machski (Jan 25, 2021)

After an absolute Cyclone of a weekend wind wise, Monday was a breath of fresh air and felt downright balmy.  Treated to some Monday treats as well, with Crumba opening and skiing very nicely thanks to the consistent traffic to break up the crust.  Celestial Debuted as well, though very little traffic making for a tough slog through the inch of now hardened crust.  Quantum Leap also opened after being under the guns for several days and skied great, a dry edgabe chalk surface.  Noticed they tossed in the new SMI guns on the make, couldn't discern a difference in surface quality between those or the tried and trusty SR7's.  Eureka still set up, hopefully they get to that in time for a weekend open.  All the groomed trails skied great today, probably helps from many getting multiple days of grooming in with little to no traffic down them.  The ungroomed got a bit of fill from the wind, just enough to make some of the scratchy stuff fun again.  Back on Thursday.


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## Newpylong (Jan 26, 2021)

SR7 aka ASC Gun, aka LAB7 depending on what mountain you're at. It is a 7 holed round gun that I consider one of if not the best all around air hog ever made. That along with possibly the K2000.

Not rebar per se, but yes they are on a steel tripod. Also they are tower mounted like on White Heat at SR, Outer Limits at K, Superstar at K, etc. Where you need decent throw.

I don't have any super clear pictures but here are a few from last year I took setting them up.


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## machski (Jan 26, 2021)

Sunday River has been testing these two new guns from SMI recently on both the Rocking Chair and Quantum makes.


The first is a Grizzly and it looked good in production.  That one is currently at QL right at the backside junction.  The second is a Freedom X and I was totally impressed with that thing when they had it in use on RC.  The quantity and the throw distance were imressive, similar to an SR7 in my opinion from the chair overhead.  Both of these are sled mounted ground, haven't seen any on towers yet.  Wonder what the resort thinks about them (as in, will we see a lot more of these)?


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## machski (Jan 26, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> I gotta say that I was impressed with these when I saw them running, and really appreciated their small size, making them more mobile.


My guess is, they must have liked what they saw on RC to then run them on QL.  Its one thing to test a new gun(s) on a terrain park trail where you just need to make a ton of snow and not be super concerned with quality as it is going to get push, stacked, packed then groomed.  But to use on a trail like QL that they do not often groom, they had to feel pretty good about them.  Still might be a bit hard to tell about them though, the wind was like a constant jet engine blasting straight up QL all weekend during production.


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## machski (Jan 31, 2021)

Conditions are quite nice, many of the naturals are open.  White Cap glades definitely need more.  Poppy Fields needs a trim and deadfall cleanup.  Green Line is close to unskiable from a few fallen trees, one in particular is almost cutting the line completely off.  Blue was fine, Orange needs the undergrowth trimmed big time.  Almost looks abandoned right now, underbrush was a good 3 feet above the current snow surface!  Should have taken a picture.


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## machski (Feb 18, 2021)

Well, it took a while this season, but Barker has finally broke down on a peak period.  Went down today, didn't sound good as they were moving chairs around the top terminal by hand to get folks off it.  Given that, probably part of the terminal cadence setup went on the top terminal.  Hopefully that is a Poma part.  

But hey, Brian called it a good, efficient machine on the SSPC and we definitely need the new Merrill Triple first.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 18, 2021)

hows the snow?


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## machski (Feb 18, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> hows the snow?


Not first hand, wife has next week off for school break, groomers are nice, ungroomed is "a bit challenging."


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## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2021)

He also should have been more transparent and agreed that yes, some pipe needs to be replaced asap. Roadrunner is better at irrigation than water distribution to the rest of White Cap. That pipe is toast. Then there is the Backside/Polaris loop which was inoperative this season. 

He likely was just turned off by the insinuation that patches add to the overall reduction in pressure due to friction loss. That person evidently read one too many white papers and has never operated a snowmaking system.


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## machski (Feb 18, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> He also should have been more transparent and agreed that yes, some pipe needs to be replaced asap. Roadrunner is better at irrigation than water distribution to the rest of White Cap. That pipe is toast. Then there is the Backside/Polaris loop which was inoperative this season.
> 
> He likely was just turned off by the insinuation that patches add to the overall reduction in pressure due to friction loss. That person evidently read one too many white papers and has never operated a snowmaking system.


True, that was a crazy question.  The Roadrunner pipe is a big deal, far too many blowouts over the last hand full of years.  I will miss seeing the bubbling "springs" along the Barker road stream.  The backside pipe not so much a big deal.  That line is such a narrow gauge pipe and the trail is more nordic than alpine anyway.  Polaris is ok, always thought the very top of Quantum off North Peak summit should be renamed Polaris and dropped to green, Quantum should start at the backside/Polaris split.  It's funny, Stuart said it but I wouldn't trust the life expectancy of any materials used in the LBO era.  They all should be suspect.


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## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2021)

Yep, the pipe they put in in that era was junk, ask Sugarbush. A lot of cheap valve stations too. Some of the stuff I've seen at the River made me cringe.


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## machski (Feb 19, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Yep, the pipe they put in in that era was junk, ask Sugarbush. A lot of cheap valve stations too. Some of the stuff I've seen at the River made me cringe.


I know they've changed out a lot of the critical valve stations the last several years, but haven't seen much new pipe run to replace old pipe anyway on hill (obviously, new pipe has been run for new or relocated lines).  Barker and Jordan lifts should be upgraded, but the rest are ok IMHO and would rather see those $$$ not be spent in the 2030 plan there but in on hill snowmaking plumbing upgrades/overhauls.  If they can't keep the system up, shinny new lifts will just be that, shinny lifts doing nothing.


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## parahelia (Feb 19, 2021)

So I was worried that Tuesday's sleetfest would make the naturals unskiable until a refresh came.  I'm happy to report I'm wrong.  Conditions aren't as good as they were a week ago, but there's still bumps and soft snow to be had.  Lapped Oz for a while today, no line and Eureka and Flying Monkey were fun (though Monkey could use a brush trim).

The Ikon/Silver blackout dates seem to have totally altered the Feb. vacation week dynamics.  It was nearly empty President's Day weekend.  Crowds have been building all week though, and yesterday (Thursday) saw the longest lines I'd been in all season (and this was before Barker crapped out).  Despite that, the crowds tend to go for the same few lifts and you can avoid them.  They're sold out today and Saturday. 

Went to Sugarloaf Wednesday, cold but had a great time; they fared better than SR from Tuesday's event.  Naturals were fun, but the groomers looked pretty scoured. Luckily they're easy to avoid.  I forgot just how long the lines can get at Sugarloaf when everyone wants to get to the good stuff off Skyline (Timberline was closed). Waits of ~10 minutes on Skyline into the afternoon - impressive for a cold Wednesday.


----------



## RiverRunner (Feb 21, 2021)

Spent all day in the trees this weekend..

West Side:
Gulch is skiing well, bumps are set up nice and not many grabbers lurking.  Rock drop in the lower section getting skied off a bit but a good landing zone off the right side 

Blind from the Excalibur entrance was phenomenal.  Great coverage and little traffic through there.

3rd entrance to poppy fields was a treat, both blue and yellow lines well covered and set up

Gnarnia>Tango link up was another good one.. stayed skiers right up top, cut over to skiers left (rock drop was flat and skied out), then cut hard right below the 3 mile cutover. Good lines all through Tango

Middle line of Chutzpah was crusty from the Thursday sleet, need some jump turns to break through untracked spots.

North woods losing cover in the first section but fun in the middle portion

Eureka to Emerald City is as good as it gets right now, very fun and not a lot of tracks through Emerald

Monkeys top section is getting rough, lower half still fun but getting thin

Spruce Cliffs, first 2/3 skiing really nicely, skier’s right is the only line through the bottom section without having to huck onto a very flat landing

Of note, they groomed down the middle of heat with bumps on either side.  Throwing it back to when men were men and Heat had some teeth!

Hopefully some cover coming this week to set us up for March


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## machski (Feb 23, 2021)

Skied great today with the top coat from ma nature.  Got a bit warmish, at least on the lower half of the mountain even without much sun.  West woods and nats are great still, Eastern side nats are getting thin.  Suppose to have a few fairly warm days over the next several, though may be split with a bit of white on Saturday, still TBD.  Got into some off map lines, weather wasn't kind especially to birches this season.  Several need some offseason deadfall help.


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## machski (Feb 28, 2021)

Great week and weekend at the Rivah!  Yesterday the snow started late at about 1030am but then came down hard between 1230-2pm.  Then came in bursts all through early evening.  First day I skied into twilight time, great day.  Guess we got a spritz of rain overnight but barley noticable today.  All the natural stuff skies great, woods back to fine form.  It got warm, so tomorrow morning may be a bit firm but should soften.  Weekday warriors, get at it tomorrow because Tuesday much will be locked up hard that softened today and tomorrow.


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## cdskier (Feb 28, 2021)

Might be an odd question, but anyone know what happened to uphillklimber? I just realized he hasn't posted in this thread in about a month now. Odd for someone that used to post pretty regular updates. Hope he's ok...


----------



## skiur (Mar 1, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Might be an odd question, but anyone know what happened to uphillklimber? I just realized he hasn't posted in this thread in about a month now. Odd for someone that used to post pretty regular updates. Hope he's ok...


He stopped posting shortly after some controversy in a post about him colliding or almost colliding with someone while skiing.


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## ss20 (Mar 1, 2021)

skiur said:


> He stopped posting shortly after some controversy in a post about him colliding or almost colliding with someone while skiing.



Yeah and people were being BRUTAL to him about it, imo.  

Hope he comes back as I always check this thread before going up to SR for conditions.  He's also the one who worked at SR for a couple years, correct?  He always had some kind of inside scoop.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 1, 2021)

skiur said:


> He stopped posting shortly after some controversy in a post about him colliding or almost colliding with someone while skiing.


I totally forgot about that thread. Out of curiosity I just looked at the timing. He continued to post here for another 10 days or so after he started that thread...



ss20 said:


> Yeah and people were being BRUTAL to him about it, imo.
> 
> Hope he comes back as I always check this thread before going up to SR for conditions.  He's also the one who worked at SR for a couple years, correct?  He always had some kind of inside scoop.


Yea, some responses were a bit over the top. Timing is still a little off on him stopping posting though if he was bothered by the responses in that thread. Hope he comes back too. I don't ski SR, but I did enjoy reading his regular updates on conditions.


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## JimG. (Mar 1, 2021)

Enjoyed his posts. Enthusiastic skier.

Sucks he stopped posting.


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## downdraft (Mar 1, 2021)

Uphillclimber, if you are reading this, as a regular Sunday River skier, I hope all is good with you. I enjoyed reading your posts and hope to meet you at Barker (when things return to normal) or out on the hill someday.


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## skef (Mar 2, 2021)

On a different note, it's looking a little windy up there this morning.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366768347535331332


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## machski (Mar 2, 2021)

Windy and now the area is totally without power.  CMP says they won't put crews up in buckets with this kind of wind (can't say I blame them).  Though I do hope our condo complex doesn't get too cold.

I have spoken to Uphillclimber, he is overall ok but had to take some time off hill.  He should be back, I'll reach out and check on him.


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## Dickc (Mar 2, 2021)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10207987622446054
			




Video of the wind up top of Jordan from a groomer.


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## 2Planker (Mar 2, 2021)

Been there done that.
I remember a XMas Day many years ago. When the whole place was on wind hold.
We had to SnoMo up Kansas to get there.
We honkered down w/ 120mph winds almost blowing the top shack away.
 It was absolutely insane for 3-4 hours

IIRC, we closed everrything by 11-12


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## xlr8r (Mar 2, 2021)

That doesn't look good


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## cdskier (Mar 2, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> Hey guys, still here. Some of you may have noticed that I crossed my tips some 5 weeks ago. Right leg collapsed, but fortunately folded in the direction it was intended. Butt went to heel and I'm pretty sure that shin went to toe, but the boot didn't break(????) Knee is 99 1/2% back. Ankle is 90-95% depending on the day. I've missed more days than I care to admit. Just not a whole lot to add.
> 
> Anyone see this about the Snowcap Inn? I hear power has been out across the mountain since shortly after noon. They have shut down for the day.
> View attachment 50706


Glad to hear you're getting closer to everything being back to 100%. Like I said, I don't ski SR, but I did enjoy reading your posts and seeing your passion for skiing.


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## downdraft (Mar 2, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> Hey guys, still here. Some of you may have noticed that I crossed my tips some 5 weeks ago. Right leg collapsed, but fortunately folded in the direction it was intended. Butt went to heel and I'm pretty sure that shin went to toe, but the boot didn't break(????) Knee is 99 1/2% back. Ankle is 90-95% depending on the day. I've missed more days than I care to admit. Just not a whole lot to add.
> 
> Anyone see this about the Snowcap Inn? I hear power has been out across the mountain since shortly after noon. They have shut down for the day.
> View attachment 50706


Welcome back. Glad you are feeling better and that you didn't break or tear anything!


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## downdraft (Mar 2, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> I consider myself lucky. Didn't break or tear anything, but I sure pulled some things. Ankle probably got he worst of the spraining. Knee was real sore at first, but as soon as I got myself up and started walking, it started coming back to normal. I skied down, basically, on one ski, that ankle was plenty sore. I've been back out, but it is mostly groomers and moguls, not too much off trail outside of Blind ambition and I I did do Shockwave, slower than usual, but I did  it! I still gotta heal up. I'm paying way too much attention to how my leg feels when I ski.


Nothing wrong with taking it a bit easier until you are fully healed.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 2, 2021)

Check this out--the Denmark Arts Center is doing a virtual Greg Stump movie festival.  Shared on the Sunday River Enthusiasts Group









						Ski-Stump FilmFEST
					

Celebrate the End of the Weirdest Ski Season EVAH! Ski-Stump FilmFEST Presented by STANDARD GASTROPUB And the winners are: Kristen Almeida- Oxbow Brewing Co. G.C. Stephen Robinson- Allagash Brewing…




					www.denmarkarts.org


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## ss20 (Mar 3, 2021)

uphillklimber said:


> Hey guys, still here. Some of you may have noticed that I crossed my tips some 5 weeks ago. Right leg collapsed, but fortunately folded in the direction it was intended. Butt went to heel and I'm pretty sure that shin went to toe, but the boot didn't break(????) Knee is 99 1/2% back. Ankle is 90-95% depending on the day. I've missed more days than I care to admit. Just not a whole lot to add.
> 
> Anyone see this about the Snowcap Inn? I hear power has been out across the mountain since shortly after noon. They have shut down for the day.
> View attachment 50706



That sucks about your health @uphillklimber .  Get better!

And about the Snow Cap...THIS IS ENTIRELY NORMAL.  Last year in early January, my buddy and I were up for a few days.  There was one particularly windy night and it was quite loud.  Woke up the next day...the roof was peeled up like a tin can, and we were on the second floor so it was right above us.  We came beck in the afternoon excited because we believed they'd have to move us to another hotel like the Grand Summit.  Maintenance guys were just finishing up putting on the new roof in the 6 hours we had been gone.  

Not the best shot but there was exposed framing as in your picture.  


Later that day...good as new!


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## machski (Mar 3, 2021)

PSA given the wind damage around the area, DO NOT GO BLASTING into the woods the balance of the season first run through anything.  What were open lines have a high probability of being blocked partially or completely.  Large limbs may be lurking around a corner waiting to impale.  Everyone please ski/ride safely and slowly until you are sure a line is good.


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## sull1102 (Mar 5, 2021)

Hoping to get some intel, just booked a couple nights March 31st-2nd at a house near the River. Curious what to expect for what they usually have open late spring midweek days.


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## Andrew B. (Mar 6, 2021)

sull1102 said:


> Hoping to get some intel, just booked a couple nights March 31st-2nd at a house near the River. Curious what to expect for what they usually have open late spring midweek days.


Contraction doesn’t usually start until after the first or second weekend in April. Hard telling what their thoughts might be this year.


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## 2Planker (Mar 6, 2021)

sull1102 said:


> Hoping to get some intel, just booked a couple nights March 31st-2nd at a house near the River. Curious what to expect for what they usually have open late spring midweek days.en


Our friends from NY did 5 On Mt. Condos for 5 families w/ young kids. A repeat vacation of the year before.
     Only this time they got -   NO Daycare, NO ski school, NO Rentals after being told they would all be available at time of booking.
     Total SHIT SHOW.  Over $20K spent  OUCH


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## Mum skier (Mar 6, 2021)

sull1102 said:


> Hoping to get some intel, just booked a couple nights March 31st-2nd at a house near the River. Curious what to expect for what they usually have open late spring midweek days.


We just booked 3 nights for the Easter weekend at the Grand Summit. Did it yesterday as soon as I saw Maine had dropped restrictions for us MA folks!  I also hope there will be some decent terrain still open, bad history of Easter skiing for our family.
Last year - none due to Covid. 2019, Stowe - it rained. 2018, Okemo - it rained.
But so long as something is open, will feel great to go away for a few days and stay somewhere. And a bad days skiing is still better than a good day doing anything else.....


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## chuckstah (Mar 6, 2021)

Unless this year is different from past ones everything skiable should be open through Easter Sunday, April 4th. As for lifts, midweek I would expect a bare minimum that still allows access to the vast majority of terrain, with most running on the weekend, depending on crowds.


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## machski (Mar 6, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> Unless this year is different from past ones everything skiable should be open through Easter Sunday, April 4th. As for lifts, midweek I would expect a bare minimum that still allows access to the vast majority of terrain, with most running on the weekend, depending on crowds.


^^^^This could be that midweek.  The real hard part for anyone booked at the Grand Summit midweek the week leading into Easter is what they do at White Cap.  They may just run Tempest and WH, which means Intermediate via Jibe, Heats On and Starlight is the easiest route back.  Barker, Spruce, Chondi, SR Quad and Jordan should all be open, Aurora Quad and Triple may not be running, limiting Aurora to just crossing trails.  They have done that in the past.


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## RiverRunner (Mar 6, 2021)

Jordan/Oz closed today for wind. Most of the naturals were closed.
Groomers were in great shape today... Obsession was in the best shape it’s been all year after getting blown and heavily groomed Friday, Cascades and Punch skiing great too.  Bim’s Whim got its once-yearly grooming Friday, which felt weird.
Not a day for bumps or woods— glades are full of debris (some fallen trees, lot of twigs/pine needles), and the refreeze was real.  Hollywood, uppercut, and agony were all severely crusted ice.  Edgeable with some hop turning effort but a lot of death cookies and deflection. Another thaw/freeze this week means this isn’t likely to change unless you catch the Thursday corn.
Sharpen em up, wax em down, and let em rip on the groomed stuff.


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## sull1102 (Mar 8, 2021)

Thanks gang, appreciate the info.


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## Newpylong (Mar 10, 2021)

28,000 feet of new pipe going onto Merrill Hill this off-season and a very high likelihood of 19,000 feet going onto Locke and White Cap. 

Roadrunner is currently toast and is the feed for most of White Cap. Cascade is currently undersized and is the Locke and partial White Cap feed. To kill two birds with one stone they will bump the Cascade feed from 8" to 16", run a big new feed down Jibe to Heats Off. At the bottom of White Heat a new valve station will be built to serve all of White Cap. Then they'll be able to put 3,000 GPM onto both mountains at once with new pipe.

Roadrunner so that will just be replaced with 6" dropping to 4" as it won't be a feed any longer.


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## machski (Mar 10, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> 28,000 feet of new pipe going onto Merrill Hill this off-season and a very high likelihood of 19,000 feet going onto Locke and White Cap.
> 
> Roadrunner is currently toast and is the feed for most of White Cap. Cascade is currently undersized and is the Locke and partial White Cap feed. To kill two birds with one stone they will bump the Cascade feed from 8" to 16", run a big new feed down Jibe to Heats Off. At the bottom of White Heat a new valve station will be built to serve all of White Cap. Then they'll be able to put 3,000 GPM onto both mountains at once with new pipe.
> 
> Roadrunner so that will just be replaced with 6" dropping to 4" as it won't be a feed any longer.


About flipping time for RR to get replaced.  I will miss the bubbling brook from underground just past Tempest Ridge Townhouse road while walking the dog though.  Good way to tell White Cap was being charged/in operation 

A question Newpylong on Merrill, the new Ski Back trail cut last season with the partial snowmaking line up it, last season all the hydrants were in (water and air) but I noticed this year except for the end hydrant, all the water ones had the stem pipe and valve removed and capped.  Was that to minimize freeze up while they aren't really using the line?


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## machski (Mar 28, 2021)

Figured I should pull this thread back up with all the doom and gloom of the rapid spring.  Sunday River is holding up rather well.  Barker is solid, man did they add base to Right Stuff.  Have not seen that trail that deep in a while.  Punches and Ecstacy also deep and solid, cascade and Monday Morning hiding well too.  The balance of the resort overall is good, some runs are thinning fast (Tempest and Upper WH come to mind) but others would surprise you (Shockwave still excellent cover, Lost Princess and Downdraft too).  They should make it until their planned April 24th, not sure Jordan will survive for its final weekend April 10/11th.  Will depend on weather between now and then and whether they can push snow or just light groom as well.

Shockwave
Lost Princess


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## Newpylong (Mar 29, 2021)

Looks great still.


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## thebigo (Apr 3, 2021)

machski said:


> Figured I should pull this thread back up with all the doom and gloom of the rapid spring.  Sunday River is holding up rather well.  Barker is solid, man did they add base to Right Stuff.  Have not seen that trail that deep in a while.  Punches and Ecstacy also deep and solid, cascade and Monday Morning hiding well too.  The balance of the resort overall is good, some runs are thinning fast (Tempest and Upper WH come to mind) but others would surprise you (Shockwave still excellent cover, Lost Princess and Downdraft too).  They should make it until their planned April 24th, not sure Jordan will survive for its final weekend April 10/11th.  Will depend on weather between now and then and whether they can push snow or just light groom as well.
> View attachment 51201
> ShockwaveView attachment 51202
> Lost Princess



April 24 is a Saturday? Are they actually planning on closing on a Saturday or was that a typo?


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## Newpylong (Apr 3, 2021)

thebigo said:


> April 24 is a Saturday? Are they actually planning on closing on a Saturday or was that a typo?


Yes they're shooting for the 24th.


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## machski (Apr 3, 2021)

thebigo said:


> April 24 is a Saturday? Are they actually planning on closing on a Saturday or was that a typo?


Yup, have not heard why they are closing on a Saturday.  They have made a big deal about staying open 7 days/ week til the end this season and Saturday does technically "End" the week.  Odd, maybe if the snow holds out til then and Sunday looks to be a great day weather-wise, they will surprise everyone with a "bonus" day Sunday the 25th.  I wouldn't bank on that though.  Then again, not like they have a lft replacement on a key lift to do or anything this offseason


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## chuckstah (Apr 3, 2021)

I haven't done the math, but is April. 24th day 150 by "chance" ?  That would make sense ....


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## parahelia (Apr 3, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> I haven't done the math, but is April. 24th day 150 by "chance" ?  That would make sense ....


I did a back of the envelope calculation a few weeks ago and came up with April 23 being day 150 (taking into account the Christmas Day closure).  I could have been off in my math.  Or maybe they just didn’t want to shut it down on a weekday.


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## thebigo (Apr 8, 2021)

What is the deal with Jordan access tomorrow? Problem to park at the hotel, boot up in car and walk to trail?

Heading over with daughter first thing in AM, have not skied SR other than opening/closing weekend since ASC days. Getting some early use out of next year's passes.


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## machski (Apr 10, 2021)

thebigo said:


> What is the deal with Jordan access tomorrow? Problem to park at the hotel, boot up in car and walk to trail?
> 
> Heading over with daughter first thing in AM, have not skied SR other than opening/closing weekend since ASC days. Getting some early use out of next year's passes.


Hope you had fun, should not have been an issue.  Jordan and Oz were skiing pretty well, all things considered.  A bit rocky at the top, but once by pretty good the balance.  All of it was good, except for the White Cap run.  That was sketch, but glad to have the short walk to/from access at our condo.


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## machski (Apr 13, 2021)

What a solid weekend, with plenty of terrain still in the mix from Locke all the way over to Jordan and a stitch line patched to put the White Cap Quad in play as well (allowed for easy lift access out after hiking to White Heat and Shockwave, which were so worth it).  Obviously Friday and Saturday's heat took a toll but the only trail lost was Upper Vortex (and it was open, but a tough area to cross in boots was down to rock).   Unsure if Spruce will open again next weekend, Tourist Trap is the only route back to Barker and is rapidly loosing snowpack without a good farm source close by.  Of course, there is chance of a late Nor'Easter late week so maybe.

Shockwave was worth the hike over from Barker, especially with lift service back out of WC.

Lost Princess was my ROTW, awesome coverage still (best on the Jordan side)

Upper Downdraft was a close second

Right Stuff will be the run that carries them through to closing day.  Deepest I have seen that trail buried in years.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 13, 2021)

Well definitely a great example of how snowmaking changes the spring dynamic.  The sides are brown and the swaths down the middle still good to go.  In pic has  a person standing in the middle of the trail which makes me think they are happy to be there but sad to see all the brown stuff.  I know I feel that way!


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## Newpylong (Apr 14, 2021)

Great pics.


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## skef (Apr 14, 2021)

Pix from today (Wednesday April 14).

Looking up from Barker Base (yes, Monday Mourning is still open, with “Walking Required” — see skier on left):


Right Stuff is definitely deep (is it going to be SR’s answer to Superstar?), but has some of the Wrong Stuff mixing in:


Tourist Trap is getting a little dicey:


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## machski (Apr 14, 2021)

They definitely need to increase the guns that cover skier's right exit from MM/Race Arena.  That is the first area to melt/wash out and I think it is because they really don't have guns that reach there.  With the T-Bar, that is not the primary exit for MM.


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## thebigo (Apr 18, 2021)

Saturday was excellent:


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## thebigo (Apr 18, 2021)

Does anyone know the restaurant situation? We are going to stay in Jordan next weekend, ski Saturday and then just hang around Sunday and Monday. I may hike or i may just float around the pool and drink beers. 

Looking for a few family dinners. Looks like the brewery is open for dinner, anything else open?


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## kbroderick (Apr 18, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Does anyone know the restaurant situation? We are going to stay in Jordan next weekend, ski Saturday and then just hang around Sunday and Monday. I may hike or i may just float around the pool and drink beers.
> 
> Looking for a few family dinners. Looks like the brewery is open for dinner, anything else open?


The brew pub is closed and lacks appropriate licensing to serve food and beverages to the public, so that's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Butcher Burger is open for dine-in; Kowloon Village is as well, but I'm not sure if they're take-out only (they've been back and forth and I'm not sure of current status, but I think they are doing dine-in as well). Suds is open for take-out as well. Bethel House of Pizza is open, but I'm not sure about their dining room.

I'm not sure if anything is open on the mountain; Camp shows open for dinner on weekends on the dining guide, but I'm not sure if that will hold through next weekend, and it's still a pretty good haul from Jordan.


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## Edd (Apr 18, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Saturday was excellent:
> 
> View attachment 51500View attachment 51501View attachment 51502View attachment 51503View attachment 51504


Incredible pics


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## machski (Apr 18, 2021)

kbroderick said:


> The brew pub is closed and lacks appropriate licensing to serve food and beverages to the public, so that's unlikely to change anytime soon.
> 
> Butcher Burger is open for dine-in; Kowloon Village is as well, but I'm not sure if they're take-out only (they've been back and forth and I'm not sure of current status, but I think they are doing dine-in as well). Suds is open for take-out as well. Bethel House of Pizza is open, but I'm not sure about their dining room.
> 
> I'm not sure if anything is open on the mountain; Camp shows open for dinner on weekends on the dining guide, but I'm not sure if that will hold through next weekend, and it's still a pretty good haul from Jordan.


River Lanes is a full restaurant/pub as well and are fully open too (plus bowling and an arcade).  Not sure if River Haus is open or not now, but they were open for in house dining.  Weekend nights best bet if they are.


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## parahelia (Apr 18, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Does anyone know the restaurant situation? We are going to stay in Jordan next weekend, ski Saturday and then just hang around Sunday and Monday. I may hike or i may just float around the pool and drink beers.
> 
> Looking for a few family dinners. Looks like the brewery is open for dinner, anything else open?


Steam Mill Brewing in the village has outdoor space and live music on Saturdays - went yesterday and it was great.  No food at the brewery but Le Mu (Laotian-American fusion) has their trailer in the shared parking lot, it looked delicious.


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## kbroderick (Apr 18, 2021)

machski said:


> River Lanes is a full restaurant/pub as well and are fully open too (plus bowling and an arcade).  Not sure if River Haus is open or not now, but they were open for in house dining.  Weekend nights best bet if they are.


River Haus is actually one of the only places that's been open on a few nights recently where we didn't want to cook, yet somehow we keep forgetting that (living in town, it's out of the way to go back up there). Facebook shows them as being open seven days a week, which is a rarity around here right now.

I think the Millbrook Tavern (at the Bethel Inn) is also operating, but I"m not sure of their schedule.


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## kbroderick (Apr 21, 2021)

On the subject of skiing...some of the turns today were really good, and Right Stuff still has great coverage top-to-bottom.

Just about every other trail requires attention to line choice, and if there's a "walking required" sign up, I'd recommend believing it. I could've pulled off Wildfire top-to-bottom if I'd brought my silly skis, but Jungle Road is more suited for mountain-bike travel at this point than for skiing.


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## machski (Apr 23, 2021)

Thursday was not your typical late spring day.  An inch or so of new snow, flash freeze up had Barker on icing hold to start so Mountain Ops put Locke's on and off ramps back together and gave us a decent groomed surface on T2, Upper Punch and Sunday Punch to start,  Felt more like the front of the season with those offerings than the tail end.  Some soft turns to be had here and there where it drifted in.  Barker shed its ice issues by Noon.  While Right Stuff has great cover, the groom overnight made it very interesting and difficult.  It was like skiing a golf ball surface, with the dimples all over.  Good last day there for me overall.  Best snow surface was the ungroomed lower Risky below the Lazy cutover to Amex.  Super silky and soft.


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## thebigo (Apr 24, 2021)

View attachment 51552View attachment 51553View attachment 51554View attachment 51555View attachment 51552View attachment 51553View attachment 51554View attachment 51555


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## thebigo (Apr 24, 2021)

I do not know why the pictures posted twice and I have too many beers in me to troubleshoot. It was a good closing day, right stuff is deep and was fun. 

After skiing vail all year, boyne just puts in that extra effort on all fronts. The surface today at SR was better than wildcat in March. It is more than the fact that SR offered a season nearly two months longer than wildcat. The boyne employees actually talk to customers, I am bringing my kids to fireworks tonight, SR offers an outdoor lunch on the barker deck, the customers are happy.


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## sull1102 (Apr 24, 2021)

This was my exact experience back in February and then at the beginning of this month when I brought family up. Split my days between Loon and SR this season on a NEP and couldn’t be happier. They stepped it up, I’ve joked with friends it feels like someone at Boyne has it out for Vail and wanted to show off how much better they are than the big boy of the industry.


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## thebigo (Apr 24, 2021)

Spectacular night for the kids, could not be happier to be done with vail.


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## snoseek (Apr 24, 2021)

thebigo said:


> I do not know why the pictures posted twice and I have too many beers in me to troubleshoot. It was a good closing day, right stuff is deep and was fun.
> 
> After skiing vail all year, boyne just puts in that extra effort on all fronts. The surface today at SR was better than wildcat in March. It is more than the fact that SR offered a season nearly two months longer than wildcat. The boyne employees actually talk to customers, I am bringing my kids to fireworks tonight, SR offers an outdoor lunch on the barker deck, the customers are happy.


I know you ski a fair bit midweek and on those days I would be all over Loon. Without the crowds its a terrific mtn with fast efficient lifts, Nice long runs that interest me. Its also such an easy drive. Sunday River is great and consistent, and the Sugarloaf is the mecca. That pass is more overall but worth every penny. Wildcat will always be there.


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## machski (Apr 25, 2021)

Ahh, yeah, I think Brian Heon may have a bone to pick considering he was the GM at Cat under Peaks 


sull1102 said:


> This was my exact experience back in February and then at the beginning of this month when I brought family up. Split my days between Loon and SR this season on a NEP and couldn’t be happier. They stepped it up, I’ve joked with friends it feels like someone at Boyne has it out for Vail and wanted to show off how much better they are than the big boy of the industry.


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## thebigo (Apr 25, 2021)

snoseek said:


> I know you ski a fair bit midweek and on those days I would be all over Loon. Without the crowds its a terrific mtn with fast efficient lifts, Nice long runs that interest me. Its also such an easy drive. Sunday River is great and consistent, and the Sugarloaf is the mecca. That pass is more overall but worth every penny. Wildcat will always be there.


That is the plan. Ragged weekends, loon midweek, sr/sl early and late season plus school vacation weeks. I fell backwards into a cottage rental on newfound lake, it is owned by an elderly couple that spend Jan - Mar in Florida. About 15 mins to ragged and 30 mins to loon from the cottage.

Definitely more than we spent last year but skiing is literally the only thing we do as a family and if vail taught us anything last year: you get what you pay for.

I wish the boyne pass had a better deal for western access but if we go it would be in April. May pick up ikon for the following year and use it next April at squaw or mammoth. 

We are still at SR and enjoy it here. I would like to do a seasonal rental here but my wife works long hours and the extra hour drive on Friday nights would just be too much for her.


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## Newpylong (Jun 26, 2021)

There is a solid rumor within local SR management that they'll be getting an 8 pack for Jordan next year, which perplexes them as Barker is the obvious need. The thought is if Jordan replaces Barker it will be a good move.


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## Dickc (Jun 26, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> There is a solid rumor within local SR management that they'll be getting an 8 pack for Jordan next year, which perplexes them as Barker is the obvious need. The thought is if Jordan replaces Barker it will be a good move.


Well, with Loon installing a Dopp D-line 8 pack, I think someone at Boyne is in love with that type of lift.  Putting it in Barker basin would be overkill, but at Jordan with the ability to spread out from that peak, it would make more sense.  The old Jordan would need a full years worth of rebuild to be fit for Barker however.  I just don't think the D-line comes in a 4 pack.  I bet the new Barker haul rope WOULD fit the old Jordan however......


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## Newpylong (Jun 26, 2021)

I had an opportunity to get up close and personal with the Loon 8 this week and man those towers are massive.


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## ss20 (Jun 27, 2021)

An 8 pack on Jordan?  Okkkkk....where are the new trails going to go to make that feasible?  How will they widen Kansas so that it's not a suicide run getting out of that pod?


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## Newpylong (Jun 27, 2021)

Yea, it seems odd given the lack of downhill capacity. I don't think any pod at the River would properly support an 8, unless the chairs are heavily spaced out essentinally making it a marketing lift.

Hopefully the rumor stays a rumor and Barker gets addressed.


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## machski (Jun 27, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> There is a solid rumor within local SR management that they'll be getting an 8 pack for Jordan next year, which perplexes them as Barker is the obvious need. The thought is if Jordan replaces Barker it will be a good move.


That would suck, upper Carumba would need to be widened considerably for one of those lift monsters.  That said, I can see Boyne upper mgmt wanting to improve the Jordan lift first.  Given how fast Dreamaker Lodge sold out and the current waiting (wishing) list, bet they are salivating to build more.  Only Jordan really has space slopeside.  But they need a better wind tolerant lift there first.  I would think a D-Line 6 would be enough.  8 off a chair at that summit at a time would be problematic, even with angle unload towards the current patrol shack.


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## machski (Jun 27, 2021)

Not to mention both DB first, and BH this year have stated they don't see a need for an 8 at SR.


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## ss20 (Jun 27, 2021)

Also...I'm not an SR expert...but why sink this much $$$ into a lift that runs mid/late December to early April?  Especially given it's gotta be in the top 2% of lifts shutdown for wind in the East.


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## xlr8r (Jun 28, 2021)

I still don't get why ASC or Boyne has never built a lift from the base of Jordan that ends at the hotel.  Even a t bar would be fine.  It would keep ski ski out access even in high wind


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## machski (Jun 28, 2021)

To both of the above posts.  First, they NEED to spend money on Jordan because of the hotel.  A lot of $$ tied up and while I'm sure Covid has helped drive asking process back up on quarter shares there, they were often going far LESS than Summit unit's due to the lift issue.  Boyne is convinced new lift tech would help drastically reduce down days for wind (honestly, the current Jordan was really designed for anything less than min cost I stall IMHO.  The loaded chairs aren't even on the dominant windward side of the line!)

A lift from Jordan base to the hotel would work if not for the poor ability for Jordan Double and either Aurora lift to be much better dealing with wind.  Why spend money just to the hotel if that is the only lift on that side that would run in winds?  I know there are some days when Jordan Double runs all day along with either Aurora or Quantum (or both) but it is not a lot of the days Jordan Quad is down too.  So with this, if they are going to spend $$, I think they will spend on the primary lift there and while they are at it, up capacity to cutdown on the mega lines that form over there on weekends.


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## ss20 (Jun 28, 2021)

machski said:


> To both of the above posts.  First, they NEED to spend money on Jordan because of the hotel.  A lot of $$ tied up and while I'm sure Covid has helped drive asking process back up on quarter shares there, they were often going far LESS than Summit unit's due to the lift issue.  Boyne is convinced new lift tech would help drastically reduce down days for wind (honestly, the current Jordan was really designed for anything less than min cost I stall IMHO.  The loaded chairs aren't even on the dominant windward side of the line!)
> 
> A lift from Jordan base to the hotel would work if not for the poor ability for Jordan Double and either Aurora lift to be much better dealing with wind.  Why spend money just to the hotel if that is the only lift on that side that would run in winds?  I know there are some days when Jordan Double runs all day along with either Aurora or Quantum (or both) but it is not a lot of the days Jordan Quad is down too.  So with this, if they are going to spend $$, I think they will spend on the primary lift there and while they are at it, up capacity to cutdown on the mega lines that form over there on weekends.



You're the resident SR expert but I think a Barker 6 pack and a White Cap revamp with better lodge and a Tempest replacement would be better money spent.  Both are certainly much more needed than a Jordan replacement and would increase the desirability of that side of the mountain, hopefully reducing the massive crowds on Jordan.  I feel like the current situation is like that of Killington before the Snowdon 6 replacement.  The Skye Peak/Bear side of the mountain was frequently a shitshow on the weekends while Snowdon was wayyyy underutilized.  Now that they've got a six pack on Snowdon (for better or for worse) the rest of the mountain skis much better with crowds very well spread out.


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## machski (Jun 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> You're the resident SR expert but I think a Barker 6 pack and a White Cap revamp with better lodge and a Tempest replacement would be better money spent.  Both are certainly much more needed than a Jordan replacement and would increase the desirability of that side of the mountain, hopefully reducing the massive crowds on Jordan.  I feel like the current situation is like that of Killington before the Snowdon 6 replacement.  The Skye Peak/Bear side of the mountain was frequently a shitshow on the weekends while Snowdon was wayyyy underutilized.  Now that they've got a six pack on Snowdon (for better or for worse) the rest of the mountain skis much better with crowds very well spread out.


I would agree and have pushed for a better Tempest for years (didn't get very far with that in talks with DB).  I feel like White Cap was under utilized due to lack of a good lift out and abandoned lodge.  But Shipyard has completely turned the lodge around, almost back to the must be at lodge again.  A new lift out would only add to the desirability of basing out of WC again for many.

All that said, if they go to a Jordan replacement first, I would think that indicates they have real estate development plans out there.  Below the Hotel down Lolla is probably the best slopeside developable real estate left with easy roadway access.  I would still love to see them flip the current quad to Oz and run it down to Jordan base.  Would add extra capacity our of the bottom of basin and provide the better ski route out IMHO.  The issue with that idea is how much extra traffic gets pushed onto State Fair and lowest part of Rogue.  There will be more room at the very bottom as the Jordan replacement base terminal is suppose to be set a hundred or so feet back into the field at the base.


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## Newpylong (Jun 29, 2021)

I think the biggest issue they have is most of these lifts went in during a very rapid build out period and they are all coming due for replacement at the same time. Probably hard to figure out what the immediate need is given the scale of it all...


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## 2Planker (Jun 29, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I think the biggest issue they have is most of these lifts went in during a very rapid build out period and they are all coming due for replacement at the same time. Probably hard to figure out what the immediate need is given the scale of it all...


Barker was long before the rapid build up of ASC in the 90's

  ".... Built by Yan in 1987 this lift has been modified by Poma a few times.
First in 1996 it received new grips and re-built terminals. It later received new chairs and a few tower heads."


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## drjeff (Jun 29, 2021)

When you think about the age of SR's lifts (and when so many of them were built back in the "Les Otten Glory Days" ) looking at the center of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are relatively new, From Barker on over to the left side of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are nearing the 30 year mark, same thing with the right side of the trail map from basically Aurora on over.

That's a lot of lifts, that will be aging through their 30's on towards 40 years old in the next decade or so. That's certainly something that is likely going to be getting some attention over the next decade, as I think that we all have seen that while lifts can easily run past 40 years, we start seeing and hearing more and more about  those vintage lifts having some issues as well.

Much of the ski industry, especially the larger resorts, are likely looking at similar replacement situations in the next decade when one factors in all the rapid expansion that went on in the ski industry from the early 80's into the mid 90's


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## Hawk (Jun 29, 2021)

2Planker said:


> Barker was long before the rapid build up of ASC in the 90's
> 
> ".... Built by Yan in 1987 this lift has been modified by Poma a few times.
> First in 1996 it received new grips and re-built terminals. It later received new chairs and a few tower heads."


Nope I was there.  Actually the start of the push was North Peak 85-86, then Spruce 86-87 and then they did the Tempest/Whitecap  and the Barkah in 87-88. 4 lifts in 3 years sounds like a rapid build up to me.  That was my first year of season passes after 4 years of day tripping it.  They also expanded the barker lodge and that is where we set up shop for the duration.  The next year 88-89 was white heat.  The 90's were Aurora, Jordan and Oz.
So 7 lifts in the 80's and 4 in the 90's


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## machski (Jun 29, 2021)

drjeff said:


> When you think about the age of SR's lifts (and when so many of them were built back in the "Les Otten Glory Days" ) looking at the center of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are relatively new, From Barker on over to the left side of the trail map, the majority of those lifts are nearing the 30 year mark, same thing with the right side of the trail map from basically Aurora on over.
> 
> That's a lot of lifts, that will be aging through their 30's on towards 40 years old in the next decade or so. That's certainly something that is likely going to be getting some attention over the next decade, as I think that we all have seen that while lifts can easily run past 40 years, we start seeing and hearing more and more about  those vintage lifts having some issues as well.
> 
> Much of the ski industry, especially the larger resorts, are likely looking at similar replacement situations in the next decade when one factors in all the rapid expansion that went on in the ski industry from the early 80's into the mid 90's


Very true, but some have had major rebuilds since install.  The most extensive is probably Locke Triple.  Bottom terminal got shifted to hydraulic tension early on, mid station was added early 90's for early season, top return terminal was replace post Spruce failure and most recent it received 4 new towers to raise the line over the new race T-Bar.  Along with all the other routine maintenance so I'm guessing this lift is good for some time.  Others have seen engineering updates (White Heat comes to mind) that oversecured tower footings in light of the Spruce incident.

I think the biggest lift concerns are the aging detaches first.  Quite a few of the original Yan parts left on Barker have been changed out the last several years but they only spin that lift at 700FPM now.  Kind of pathetic when the new T-Bar runs as fast or a bit faster.  At some point soon they need to replace that before they spend more money on non-Poma parts. 

They also have the cobbled together lifts from LBO era to deal with (Little White Cap, Quantum Leap and Jordan Double).  These lifts all have parts of different vintage on them but are mostly secondary lifts.

The total issue at SR is that unlike sister resort SL, they can't really just retire and remove an aging lift like SL did a few years ago with Bucksaw.  Other than the secondary ones, removing any curtails lift access to some part of the resort.  Will be interesting to see how they proceed, especially with Loon getting all the early lift replacement attention.


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## machski (Jun 29, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Nope I was there.  Actually the start of the push was North Peak 85-86, then Spruce 86-87 and then they did the Tempest/Whitecap  and the Barkah in 87-88. 4 lifts in 3 years sounds like a rapid build up to me.  That was my first year of season passes after 4 years of day tripping it.  They also expanded the barker lodge and that is where we set up shop for the duration.  The next year 88-89 was white heat.  The 90's were Aurora, Jordan and Oz.
> So 7 lifts in the 80's and 4 in the 90's


Well, 7 new lifts in the '90's but who's counting (SRX, Aurora, QL, Jordan Quad, Jordan Double, Oz, North Peak Express).


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## Hawk (Jun 29, 2021)

OK but I call that 5.  The quantum leap and Jordan double were scabber together with peices and parts and not new expensive lifts.  forgot about the North peak upgrade. and the chondi.  It wasn't like the beginning of the push were we were seeing new lifts every year.  There were gaps.


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## Hawk (Jun 29, 2021)

Most people don't know about the side country revolution that was going on with the expansions.  We were skiing off the newly installed Spruce lift and skiing the woods down into Aroura for years before they put in the lift and then taking AP road back.  Then when they put in Aroura, we were skiing into Jordan and taking the logging road back to Aroura lift.  That was probably 10 years of awesome side country with about 20 people knowing.  By todays standards a virtual untracked paradise.


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## Newpylong (Jun 29, 2021)

In a single decade the resort's footprint was quadrupled and what, a dozen lift installs? That is what I was referring to about a rapid pace, and if that isn't rapid I don't know what is.


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## Hawk (Jun 29, 2021)

My comments were towards 2 plankers comments that barker was put in long before the big push.  I was saying it was part of the big push.  That is all.


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## 2Planker (Jun 29, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Nope I was there.  Actually the start of the push was North Peak 85-86, then Spruce 86-87 and then they did the Tempest/Whitecap  and the Barkah in 87-88. 4 lifts in 3 years sounds like a rapid build up to me.  That was my first year of season passes after 4 years of day tripping it.  They also expanded the barker lodge and that is where we set up shop for the duration.  The next year 88-89 was white heat.  The 90's were Aurora, Jordan and Oz.
> So 7 lifts in the 80's and 4 in the 90's


So was I...
 30 employee and a pretty good friend of LBO (still take his $$ playing Poker & we all H20 ski on Long Lake)

I was counting all 5 of the lifts west of NP and the Jordan Hotel as the rapid build up, along w/ the purchase of 8 other resorts during the same time period
Lift #1, #6 & #10 were one at a time, over several years.    The other 5 & Hotel all came in a  much faster timeframe


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## Hawk (Jun 29, 2021)

Alrighty then.  I was not a friend but did ski the shit out of his mountain's.  Cut some trails too.....but that is a different story.


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## 2Planker (Jun 29, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Alrighty then.  I was not a friend but did ski the shit out of his mountain's.  Cut some trails too.....but that is a different story.


OK then.  We possibly worked together in the Burt Mills/ Chip Seamans days.....
We cut Vortex, N Lights, & Sirrius, but they wouldn't let us "keep" Upper Cascades


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## Hawk (Jun 30, 2021)

Ahh, my trails were more of the less traveled variety. Yes it was that era with Burt and Chip.  I ran into Billy Bickford a bit and the old security boss Bill Doliver sp.  I hung at the Backstage with Harry Falkner and some of the locals mostly.  Worked for the mountain for 2 seasons but it got in the way of skiing.


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## Terry (Jun 30, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Ahh, my trails were more of the less traveled variety. Yes it was that era with Burt and Chip.  I ran into Billy Bickford a bit and the old security boss Bill Doliver sp.  I hung at the Backstage with Harry Falkner and some of the locals mostly.  Worked for the mountain for 2 seasons but it got in the way of skiing.


I hang\ski with Billy D at Shawnee Peak now. He is doing well.


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## 2Planker (Jul 1, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Ahh, my trails were more of the less traveled variety. Yes it was that era with Burt and Chip.  I ran into Billy Bickford a bit and the old security boss Bill Doliver sp.  I hung at the Backstage with Harry Falkner and some of the locals mostly.  Worked for the mountain for 2 seasons but it got in the way of skiing.


OK, Hawk we definitely crossed paths in the 90's then.

 All there was in town back then was the Backstage & Suds
 Harry F was our neighbor, so the tab was paid monthly 

 All good guys -- Burt, Chip, Skip, Bill B., Brownie


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## thebigo (Sep 30, 2021)

Boyne is getting a 500 vert 8 pack with <4 min ride, nothing announced in maine. Curious what the sr/sl regulars think? Does sr announce a new lift over the coming weeks or wait until next year?









						Boyne Mountain to Launch Midwest’s First Eight Seat Chairlift
					

Boyne Resorts’ commitment to modernizing lift infrastructure across its properties will continue in 2022. The company today announced construction of Disciples 8, an eight place chairlift rep…




					liftblog.com


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## ss20 (Sep 30, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Boyne is getting a 500 vert 8 pack with <4 min ride, nothing announced in maine. Curious what the sr/sl regulars think? Does sr announce a new lift over the coming weeks or wait until next year?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sub-500 vertical foot high speed lifts are common in the midwest so I wouldn't call it favorism.  They need capacity out there.  That's where lots of early triples and quads were built.


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## machski (Sep 30, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Boyne is getting a 500 vert 8 pack with <4 min ride, nothing announced in maine. Curious what the sr/sl regulars think? Does sr announce a new lift over the coming weeks or wait until next year?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boyne MI installed North America's first 6 pack in 1992.  Where they are putting the 8 makes sense as it replaces an old double and triple.

As too SR, I don't want an 8 pack anywhere on the hill, none of our unloads can really handle that type of off load.  Jordan has been surveyed for a new lift and I kind of expect that to be a 6 and be announced very soon, even if it is for Summer '23 install.  They need more than just the Merrill Hill development to push sales of those lots and DreamMaker Lodge which has fallen to 50% available again after supposedly being sold out with an extensive wait list.
As for SL, not sure.  Boyne may have gotten cold feet on Maine real estate with the way things are going at SR with the current building cost environment.  West Mountain's rebuild and new lift portal kind of revolves around their planned new real estate on that side.  Seems that may have slipped to '23, but time will tell.  Fall Fest/Homecoming is in two weekends, about the time both like to drop big future announcements.


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## Newpylong (Oct 4, 2021)

The River is going to be putting in a new D-Line on Jordan next year (odd choice with Barker being such a POS).

Also a bunch of new pipe including ductile iron feed up North Peak to a new booster there to feed the hinterlands. And a ton of new guns.

Unfortunately this year's projects are gonna come down to the wire and the snowmaking might be rough. A couple of key people in those departments have and will be departing soon. Not much depth beyond that and a tough climate to hire in.


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## machski (Oct 4, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> The River is going to be putting in a new D-Line on Jordan next year (odd choice with Barker being such a POS).
> 
> Also a bunch of new pipe including ductile iron feed up North Peak to a new booster there to feed the hinterlands. And a ton of new guns.
> 
> Unfortunately this year's projects are gonna come down to the wire and the snowmaking might be rough. A couple of key people in those departments have and will be departing soon. Not much depth beyond that and a tough climate to hire in.


Well, Merrill Hill will now officially debut for 22-23.  The lift will spin on select dates this season for a preview, I take that to mean when natural cover will suffice.  Two weekends ago I hiked around White Cap, they have a ton of work to complete over there for the feed/distribution rebuild.  Guessing Merrill completion is being put on back burner for now.  

Yes, Barker is a PoS though with all the components they have changed out the past 5 years, it can probably keep limping along a bit longer.  Jordan on the other hand, needs an upgrade to try to keep the west end open during wind/inclement weather events.  Jordan is pretty fickle and when it goes down, ugly for the resort with the guests at Jordan Grand.  I have heard some speculation they may reuse Jordan Quad to replace Barker, I personally hope not.  If we get used for Barker, I would hope they wait for Loon to replace either North or Lincoln expresses and use one of those.  Much newer machines with newer line and grip components.


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## Newpylong (Oct 4, 2021)

They have not made a decision either way on Merrill yet, it depends on how much gets done. They are already just going to connect trails 1, 2 and 3/4 together this year with no valve boxes (so they would need to charge the whole mountain) when making snow. The feed is sized appropriately but still a pain, but not time to build the valve houses.

They tried to do all the snowmaking and trail work in house and bit off more than they can chew. Had to call in favors for things like additional welders for the Locke and White Cap valve houses to get those done. 

Good points on the lifts I don't ski there enough to realize the wind history.


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## xlr8r (Oct 4, 2021)

Barker should be a new lift and a six pack, Jordan would be perfect to replace Tempest


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## machski (Oct 5, 2021)

xlr8r said:


> Barker should be a new lift and a six pack, Jordan would be perfect to replace Tempest


No it wouldn't on Jordan to Tempest, lift spins the wrong direction.  Tempest has quite a bit of wind exposure at the top, a detach with loaded chairs uphill clockwise would be a horrible combination resulting in Tempest going down MORE often for wind than the current chair does now.  IF they upgrade North Peak express as in the 2030 plans, that would be a better fit.  But I don't see them adding to their detach fleet.  Anything sub 4000' line length stays FG outside of South Ridge Express.


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## xlr8r (Oct 5, 2021)

That's an interesting point that I was not aware of.  I still think Tempest should be a detach, it would bring a lot more people to the Whitecap side of the mountain to spread people out.  Aurora is the other lift that would be nice if upgraded to a detachable, but Aurora needs some trail work at the top for that to happen imo.  It would be disappointing if the only new detachables Sunday River gets is the new Jordan, and a refurbished Jordan at Barker.


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## 2Planker (Oct 5, 2021)

That was looked at 20 years ago.... Top of Tempest could never handle a detatch.
Imagine what Cascades would be like...


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## Smellytele (Oct 5, 2021)

2Planker said:


> That was looked at 20 years ago.... Top of Tempest could never handle a detatch.
> Imagine what Cascades would be like...


I know the way the terrain is that it really wouldn't be possible but if they could get the top of the lift up to the bottom of T2. Then there would be a lot more downhill options.


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## 2Planker (Oct 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I know the way the terrain is that it really wouldn't be possible but if they could get the top of the lift up to the bottom of T2. Then there would be a lot more downhill options.


That was also considered by LBO/Burt Mills in 1991, But wasn't really practical due to Grand Junction aka "Cluster Fuck  Corner".
Adding a lift unload area there would be a huge mess


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## xlr8r (Oct 5, 2021)

A big problem with current Tempest unload is that it is just below Snowbound.  The Tempest pod would be better if you get get to Lower Obsession directly from the top terminal.


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## machski (Oct 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I know the way the terrain is that it really wouldn't be possible but if they could get the top of the lift up to the bottom of T2. Then there would be a lot more downhill options.


With the racing T-Bar in place now, IMHO that killed any chance of pulling Tempest Lift further uphill.  The T-Bar top terminal already compresses CFC (though I do like how they have it set up).  Add to that, MM is normally closed to the public and all an extended Tempest would serve is Cascades (and yes, snowbound).  I cannot see the terminal in any other location than it is now.

I once thought a detach would be needed to draw folks back to WC side, but I'm not sold on that now.  Shipyard absolutely killed it last year running the WC lodge with there brewpub as always, but the Italian Restaurant, Upper Deck and spring music outside.  Add in Last Run Room at the Summit Hotel, WC had more of a crowd than many past seasons.  Tempest is suppose to get a carpet, which isn't a huge boost in speed, but helps.  Add a shinny new lift with more comfortable chairs, that might be enough.

Aurora does not need a detach, it's only 3100' line length.  The current quad whether for real or just seems like it, is seemingly the slowest lift on the hill.  It is scheduled for replacement too, hope they carpet load that too.  Just don't feel they need to add to detach fleet costs at any other current lifts.


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## kbroderick (Oct 5, 2021)

2Planker said:


> That was also considered by LBO/Burt Mills in 1991, But wasn't really practical due to Grand Junction aka "Cluster Fuck  Corner".
> Adding a lift unload area there would be a huge mess


And since then, the intersection has been drastically reconfigured to allow for the competition T-bar, making it flow a lot better as long as you're not trying to get from Salvation/Heats Off/T2 across to Punch (which now requires a short but scary hike,)

So most of the time, the only additional terrain you'd be able to access with an extended White Cap Quad would be the top of Cascades and Snowbound/lower Obsession.


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## Newpylong (Oct 6, 2021)

I think a HSQ would do OK in that location. Yes the cutover has been lost but there has been the addition of Bear Paw. Also Heats On was widened this off season and added snowmakingroad map. So that's another blue off the top towards the WH chair. So that gives 5 routes off the top. May need to run it slower or less chairs but the quicker ride would get people to utilize it more. I don't think spending money on a carpet is a good ROI. Of course, they are finding more money earlier for capital plans so it may happen even if not on the existing roadmap.


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## ss20 (Oct 6, 2021)

I know this would never happen, but build the Tempest Superchair to the top of Barker (with a mid-station at the current top of Tempest).  Make is a HSQ.  I think it'd be a 50/50 split of people who would get off where the current Tempest chair terminates and the other half would get off at the top of Barker.  You'd be looking at 1200-1300pph getting off at each station... a very reasonable capacity number for both pods.  


One can dream right!  Otten wanted it!


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## Hawk (Oct 6, 2021)

They should run the tempest lift up to a spot to the skiers right of T2 at the bottom of Bimms with a small traverse over to Grand Junction that would get you acces to everything with minimal headache.  Plenty of room over there and not that many people coming down Bimms.


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## kbroderick (Oct 6, 2021)

Hawk said:


> They should run the tempest lift up to a spot to the skiers right of T2 at the bottom of Bimms with a small traverse over to Grand Junction that would get you acces to everything with minimal headache.  Plenty of room over there and not that many people coming down Bimms.



Not saying that it couldn't happen, but that would create serious headaches as far as reconfiguring the race venue and Grand Junction.


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## Hawk (Oct 7, 2021)

I don't know the alignment of the current Tempest lift but assiming they just extend up Cascade to the new top location to the skiers right of T2.  That does not affect the race configuration at all.  Also the travest over to grand junction does not affect the race configuration eather.  I think if the top is placed correctly there is only a small amount of woods they have to go through at the flatest section of T2 at the borrom.  Obviously the traverse will be closed on reace days or a crossing guard can be implemented.


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## Smellytele (Oct 7, 2021)

Hawk said:


> I don't know the alignment of the current Tempest lift but assiming they just extend up Cascade to the new top location to the skiers right of T2.  That does not affect the race configuration at all.  Also the travest over to grand junction does not affect the race configuration eather.  I think if the top is placed correctly there is only a small amount of woods they have to go through at the flatest section of T2 at the borrom.  Obviously the traverse will be closed on reace days or a crossing guard can be implemented.
> View attachment 51988


It would need a regrade I believe as I think that traverse is up hill.


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## Hawk (Oct 7, 2021)

Nope I ski those woods areas all the time, come out at the bottom of T2 and can make it over to grand junction with ease.  What I am saying is bring it up high enoug to make the traverse work.


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## thebigo (Oct 7, 2021)

Just got the email:



> Opening winter 2022-23, the Jordan 8 is our next milestone in the Sunday River 2030 plan coming to life.
> 
> As one of the most advanced chairlifts in the world and the fastest 8-person lift in North America, this Doppelmayr D-Line chairlift will feature eight ergonomically shaped, extra wide heated seats, improved wind resistance, and the world's first bubble in signature Sunday River Red. The Jordan 8 also introduces the exciting concept of what will become the Western Reserve, which includes Jordan Bowl, Oz, and future terrain expansion beyond.




More info - Jordan to replace barker. 



> BIGGER. BETTER. BOLDER.





> The next step in the Sunday River 2030 plan is here. The Jordan 8, coming winter 2022-23, is one of the most advanced chairlifts in in the world, and the fastest 8-person chairlift in North America. A Doppelmayr D-Line design, the lift features ergonomic heated seats, the first weather-blocking bubbles in the world in our signature Sunday River Red, and is built to withstand wind.
> The Jordan 8 services terrain on the Oz and Jordan Bowl peaks. This part of Sunday River will come to be known as the Western Reserve as future terrain development plans come to life in the several thousand acres of land beyond Jordan Bowl.
> The Jordan 8 is one of three chairlift upgrades to come in the next three years. Sunday River is currently installing a Doppelmayr fixed-grip triple chairlift on Merrill Hill, a new real estate development featuring mountaintop home sites. Merrill Hill’s lift and ski terrain are expected to open for select dates only during the 2021-22 season, with a grand opening scheduled for winter 2022-23. The current Jordan Bowl Express, a high-speed quad, will be redesigned and rebuilt on Barker Mountain to replace the Barker Mountain Express for winter 2023-24.


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## drjeff (Oct 7, 2021)

Seems like coming soon to every Boyne property should be what Bubble 8's are known as right now! 

Any bets on the old Jordan HSQ being laterally moved over to replace Barker?


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## DoublePlanker (Oct 7, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Just got the email:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow.  8-pack.  Setting up for future expansion in Western Reserve.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2021)

And Sugarloafers be like, "gee, can you ensure that our lifts don't fall apart or hurt anyone?"

I think that an 8-seater is more appropriate for Barker personally......


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## drjeff (Oct 7, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Seems like coming soon to every Boyne property should be what Bubble 8's are known as right now!
> 
> Any bets on the old Jordan HSQ being laterally moved over to replace Barker?


And based on a Storm Skiing Journal social media post that I just read, the old Jordan HSQ will be the "new" Barker HSQ for the '22-23 season


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2021)

DoublePlanker said:


> Wow.  8-pack.  Setting up for future expansion in Western Reserve.


Must be.  Ramcharger 8 is one of Big Sky's entry lifts.  So I am surprised that Jordan, on the far side, is getting an 8-pack unless expansion is imminent.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2021)

Eight Seater Coming to Sunday River’s Jordan Bowl
					

Doppelmayr will build the fastest eight place chairlift in North America for the 2022-23 season, a Sunday River Red bubble chair in Jordan Bowl. Dubbed Jordan 8, the lift will feature the world&#82…




					liftblog.com
				




LiftBlog's post gives some more information.


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## thebigo (Oct 7, 2021)

Key quote from the lift blog article. 



> “The Jordan 8 is a significant jumping off point for the Western Reserve, creating a portal that could double our skiable terrain in the coming decades,” said Dana Bullen, President of Sunday River.


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 7, 2021)

is the gondola dead now or shortly in the future with advent of the 8-person bubble chair?


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 7, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> is the gondola dead now or shortly in the future with advent of the 8-person bubble chair?


No.


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## snoseek (Oct 7, 2021)

Gondola? Where they.plan on running that?


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 7, 2021)

I just meant in general.  Seems sort of silly to have a gondola if you can install an 8 person lift.


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## drjeff (Oct 7, 2021)

Much easier to load a bunch of food and beverage supplies into a Gondola if there's a restaurant at the top of it, and it's not just transport cat accessible, than an 8 pack.  Especially wiht many resorts having year round food and beverage ops at the top of their gondolas.


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## ScottySkis (Oct 7, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Gondola? Where they.plan on running that?


Big news for Sunday River: an 8-pack will replace the Jordan Express, setting up a monster terrain expansion beyond Jordan Bowl. The Jordan Express will move over to Barker and replace that troubled lift.


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## sugarbushskier (Oct 7, 2021)

So will the Oz chair eventually be removed?

I've only skied the very top part of Lost Princess, Tin Woodsman etc. a few times and there's nothing really remarkable about that short pitch, but curious if the new 8 will make it obsolete.  With that said, it's nice to have a dedicated chair to those trails, even if it doesn't run as often as I'd like.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2021)

Re:  Gondola vs. 8-pack

Skiers/snowboarders are used using chairlifts.  The general public are not always comfortable using chairlifts.  Now the 8-packs I have ridden are pretty sweet.


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## xlr8r (Oct 7, 2021)

sugarbushskier said:


> So will the Oz chair eventually be removed?
> 
> I've only skied the very top part of Lost Princess, Tin Woodsman etc. a few times and there's nothing really remarkable about that short pitch, but curious if the new 8 will make it obsolete.  With that said, it's nice to have a dedicated chair to those trails, even if it doesn't run as often as I'd like.


I highly doubt it, even if it rarely runs, the chair is still one of the newest on the mountain with very low hours on it.  Oz is also the highest peak at Sunday River, so it would be odd to intentionally reduce the vert and summit elevation of the resort.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2021)

xlr8r said:


> I highly doubt it, even if it rarely runs, the chair is still one of the newest on the mountain with very low hours on it.  Oz is also the highest peak at Sunday River, so it would be odd to intentionally reduce the vert and summit elevation of the resort.


So did it say somewhere that the 8-Pack is going to be realigned to end at the summit of Oz?  I don't recall Oz being that much higher than Jordan.


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## ss20 (Oct 7, 2021)

An SR expansion over there would be amazing.  Solid 1,400+ vertical feet out there and wiiiideeeee open for development.  

The fastest bubbled 8-pack in North America...they seem keen on expanding over there shortly, IMO, or else they wouldn't have gone so "extra" as the kids say these days.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Seems like coming soon to every Boyne property should be what Bubble 8's are known as right now!
> 
> Any bets on the old Jordan HSQ being laterally moved over to replace Barker?



I would think Aurora would be more appropriate. Barker really needs at least a 6 Pack IMO


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## machski (Oct 7, 2021)

drjeff said:


> And based on a Storm Skiing Journal social media post that I just read, the old Jordan HSQ will be the "new" Barker HSQ for the '22-23 season


23-24 for Barker


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## machski (Oct 7, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> So did it say somewhere that the 8-Pack is going to be realigned to end at the summit of Oz?  I don't recall Oz being that much higher than Jordan.


No, but you can access almost all of Oz from Jordan except for the few hundred vert that doesn't have much special the Oz Chair reaches.  I would assume after the 8 goes in, SR gets back to making snow consistently on both Lost Princess and Eureka in Oz and probably even goes back to grooming Eureka frequently.  The Western Expansion probably is not imminent, likely years down the road still.  The 8 is going there for the wind issue at Jordan.  It is almost always the first to go down and the last to come off hold.  They likely went up to the 8 as those chairs are even heavier than the D-Line 6 chairs.

The upgauge in traffic with the 8 is not that much.  Jordan is rated at 3000 riders per hour (though it hasn't been run at design speed in years so likely more like 2800 max right now) with 113 chairs on the line.  The 8 will move 3200 riders per hour and drops the chair count to 60 on the line, almost half the current carriers.


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## Dickc (Oct 7, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I would think Aurora would be more appropriate. Barker really needs at least a 6 Pack IMO


Aurora is only 1100 vertical.  A new more reliable drive terminal and carpet load would make Aurora quite a bit better.


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## Jully (Oct 7, 2021)

ss20 said:


> An SR expansion over there would be amazing.  Solid 1,400+ vertical feet out there and wiiiideeeee open for development.
> 
> The fastest bubbled 8-pack in North America...they seem keen on expanding over there shortly, IMO, or else they wouldn't have gone so "extra" as the kids say these days.


The area over there isn't the most interesting though, is it? I thought I remembered discussion a few years ago about the terrain and it wasn't much of a win for the advanced crowd. 

Of course, more blues like Rouge Angel/Excalibur in Jordan over 1400 vertical would obviously be fantastic for the resort, generally speaking.


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## machski (Oct 7, 2021)

Jully said:


> The area over there isn't the most interesting though, is it? I thought I remembered discussion a few years ago about the terrain and it wasn't much of a win for the advanced crowd.
> 
> Of course, more blues like Rouge Angel/Excalibur in Jordan over 1400 vertical would obviously be fantastic for the resort, generally speaking.


If they just keep expanding out on the same ridgeline, nothing steep sustained.  But it would be great for glading, Jordana nd beyond hold snow very well.  What we don't know if an expansion would include the backside of Jordan and off the shoulder of Oz.  If that were to be in play, that is where you find great expert terrain.


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## machski (Oct 7, 2021)

Hawk said:


> I don't know the alignment of the current Tempest lift but assiming they just extend up Cascade to the new top location to the skiers right of T2.  That does not affect the race configuration at all.  Also the travest over to grand junction does not affect the race configuration eather.  I think if the top is placed correctly there is only a small amount of woods they have to go through at the flatest section of T2 at the borrom.  Obviously the traverse will be closed on reace days or a crossing guard can be implemented.
> View attachment 51988


At one time this would have worked.  But with the T-Bar in now and the way they block flow for that, midseason you cannot cut over CFC from T2/Bims at all.  Those only flow into Cascade midseason now.  Can't even get into MM easily (you often have to cut around the tree island to do so).  Given the new flow, no way Tempest ever gets extended now.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2021)

Dickc said:


> Aurora is only 1100 vertical.  A new more reliable drive terminal and carpet load would make Aurora quite a bit better.



That would work for me.  Actually I'd prefer that.  Just a little bit faster lift, but not something shiny that draws attention.  When I lived in Portland and the River was my home hill for a couple of seasons, Aurora was the lift and terrain I skied the most even despite the slow lift.  Partly because of terrain, partly because of lesser crowds.  Spruce Peak would be second on that list for the same reasons.


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## machski (Oct 7, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> That would work for me.  Actually I'd prefer that.  Just a little bit faster lift, but not something shiny that draws attention.  When I lived in Portland and the River was my home hill for a couple of seasons, Aurora was the lift and terrain I skied the most even despite the slow lift.  Partly because of terrain, partly because of lesser crowds.  Spruce Peak would be second on that list for the same reasons.


Both Tempest and Aurora are on the 2030 plan to get new lifts, both likely carpet loads.  Of course, the Western Expanse wasn't so who knows what is staying from that plan and what is changing.


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## thebigo (Oct 7, 2021)

Topo map beyond Jordan. Looks to be some good cruising terrain with due north exposure off the actual Jordan mountain. Drainage beyond Jordan mountain looks interesting but I don't know how you get a lift in there.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2021)

machski said:


> If they just keep expanding out on the same ridgeline, nothing steep sustained.  But it would be great for glading, Jordana nd beyond hold snow very well.  What we don't know if an expansion would include the backside of Jordan and off the shoulder of Oz.  If that were to be in play, that is where you find great expert terrain.



I would assume additional real estate development would be the western terrain driver.  Merrill Hill sales will be a good barometer of demand.


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## kbroderick (Oct 7, 2021)

There's a lot of undeveloped land both north and west of Jordan, and a fair bit of it shows as CNL property in the state GIS system. I don't think all of it is, though--some is state-owned, and I think some is otherwise privately held. A lot of it is relatively low angle but reasonably elevated with decent exposure. Unfortunately, the data for unorganized townships is more limited than what Newry has made available.

https://maine.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=28e35c8fcf514d2685357b78bdd0b246 for town data

https://maine.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=89f9a143c79f4349a40a3ff77975f17a for unorganized township data with zoning overlays


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## Hawk (Oct 8, 2021)

That whole area is in Riely Township with no access except for that logging road out from Frenchman's hole.  We traversed out into that area and skied down years ago trying to find good skinning terain.  The goal was to get down to the logging road and then skin back to a location to get picked up.  It was not a good ski I will say that but not because of the terrain.  It was the thicket of evergreens that made it hell.  If I were them I would concentrate on using the several 3000 foot peaks out there and staying higher up.


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## kbroderick (Oct 8, 2021)

Also re: lift 9, it would take either a massive realignment (i.e. it would be over parts of Obsession, not Tempest) to get to skier's right of T2, unless they put in an angle station.


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## machski (Oct 8, 2021)

In the meantime, the overhauled White Cap snowmaking system is impressive.  The Tempest Ingress has had it's snowmaking lines flipped to lift side skier's left, which should help with coverage up there.  No more fighting the prevailing wind.  That line continues and becomes a dedicated line for Jibe, which has been widened a bit and line with HKD Impulse towers now.  Cascade has been given HKD Klik hydrants along with Roadrunner which also gets it's own Impulse Towers.  The valve house on Cascade is quite impressive looking.


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## Newpylong (Oct 9, 2021)

You probably knew most of this but for those that did not: how it used to work is Roadrunner fed White Cap directly from the Barker pumphouse. Because the Roadrunner pipe is old and that system is highly inefficient (pumping water down a trail that only has snow made on it once, just to pump it back up), what they did is enlarge the feed up Cascade. The new VH on top there feeds Locke and also has a White Cap feed that goes down Jibe (which didn't have pipe before), crosses Tempest and goes down Heats On)  which also didn't have pipe) to a new VH bottom of WH lift. From there White Cap is fed. Now they have new, more appropriately sized steel feeding WC that comes off the Locke System which will be more frequently charged anyway.

Brendan Ryan (the ex-Peak's Project Director) is the main driving force towards the majority of snowmaking improvements. Sunday River was very set in their ways as that system and lack of upkeep showed, and he can analyze inefficiencies pretty easily.


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## machski (Oct 9, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> You probably knew most of this but for those that did not: how it used to work is Roadrunner fed White Cap directly from the Barker pumphouse. Because the Roadrunner pipe is old and that system is highly inefficient (pumping water down a trail that only has snow made on it once, just to pump it back up), what they did is enlarge the feed up Cascade. The new VH on top there feeds Locke and also has a White Cap feed that goes down Jibe (which didn't have pipe before), crosses Tempest and goes down Heats On)  which also didn't have pipe) to a new VH bottom of WH lift. From there White Cap is fed. Now they have new, more appropriately sized steel feeding WC that comes off the Locke System which will be more frequently charged anyway.
> 
> Brendan Ryan (the ex-Peak's Project Director) is the main driving force towards the majority of snowmaking improvements. Sunday River was very set in their ways as that system and lack of upkeep showed, and he can analyze inefficiencies pretty easily.


Yup, they sure have added efficiency.Bottom of Locke now has a new SuperPoleCat fan gun mounted on a 20 foot of so tower stand, which should help cover the Locke chair line area as well as the runout of MM, which has been problematic in the past.  Barker basin on the lodge side now has 4 Impulse towers on the pond/lift side which should also help improve the snowmaking in front of Barker Lodge.  Hopefully, no more sliding down slick rock and mud early season.  Also like the new valve houses, these are built with purpose with strong concrete foundations and aluminum sided and roofed, these look like they will last in comparison to the old valve houses.

Hiked around Merrill today, definitely does not look like most of that snowmaking system will be ready this season.  Hiked up "East" trail, that one looks fun with a bunch of left and right turns and decent pitch.  Don't think that will "preview" on the select dates as there is a skier brdge across the development road that is not close to being finished yet (concrete walls are in but that is it).  Looks like Liftline will be an actual trail now, accessed after the bridge on East trail.  The very top is unskiable due to the ledge blasted out for the development road.  Hiked down "West" trail and that will preview as it is complete on trail build.  Kind of boring but great views of Aurora. Oz and Jordan.  That one merges onto Aurora Road just below the uppermost Yetiville exit, giving Aurora Road from there to the intersection with Ridge Run snowmaking.  Second Toughts also gets snowmaking added as a new Valve house off DreamMaker appears to be set to feed up Second Thoughts.  Newpy, is that the planned primary feed point for Merrill?


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## Hawk (Oct 9, 2021)

kbroderick said:


> Also re: lift 9, it would take either a massive realignment (i.e. it would be over parts of Obsession, not Tempest) to get to skier's right of T2, unless they put in an angle station.
> 
> View attachment 51995


Ya, I had a feeling it did not line up.  Just wishful thinking.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 9, 2021)

machski said:


> Yup, they sure have added efficiency.Bottom of Locke now has a new SuperPoleCat fan gun mounted on a 20 foot of so tower stand, which should help cover the Locke chair line area as well as the runout of MM, which has been problematic in the past.  Barker basin on the lodge side now has 4 Impulse towers on the pond/lift side which should also help improve the snowmaking in front of Barker Lodge.  Hopefully, no more sliding down slick rock and mud early season.  Also like the new valve houses, these are built with purpose with strong concrete foundations and aluminum sided and roofed, these look like they will last in comparison to the old valve houses.
> 
> Hiked around Merrill today, definitely does not look like most of that snowmaking system will be ready this season.  Hiked up "East" trail, that one looks fun with a bunch of left and right turns and decent pitch.  Don't think that will "preview" on the select dates as there is a skier brdge across the development road that is not close to being finished yet (concrete walls are in but that is it).  Looks like Liftline will be an actual trail now, accessed after the bridge on East trail.  The very top is unskiable due to the ledge blasted out for the development road.  Hiked down "West" trail and that will preview as it is complete on trail build.  Kind of boring but great views of Aurora. Oz and Jordan.  That one merges onto Aurora Road just below the uppermost Yetiville exit, giving Aurora Road from there to the intersection with Ridge Run snowmaking.  Second Toughts also gets snowmaking added as a new Valve house off DreamMaker appears to be set to feed up Second Thoughts.  Newpy, is that the planned primary feed point for Merrill?



So some of the terrain over there will actually be worth skiing?  I thought it was basically just a lift with real estate and access trails


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## Newpylong (Oct 10, 2021)

I mentioned either here or one Snowjournal when someone said the same that no, the trails are actually going to be decent. The views should be killer. More so than any real estate access lift I know of in the region.

Easy blue and green. If you have younger kids my hunch is a good crowd escape to ski with them. 

Mach, yea you are absolutely right the Merrill feed is the new VH you say at Second Thoughts/Dreammaker.


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## machski (Oct 10, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I mentioned either here or one Snowjournal when someone said the same that no, the trails are actually going to be decent. The views should be killer. More so than any real estate access lift I know of in the region.
> 
> Easy blue and green. If you have younger kids my hunch is a good crowd escape to ski with them.
> 
> Mach, yea you are absolutely right the Merrill feed is the new VH you say at Second Thoughts/Dreammaker.


There may be one black.  On the real estate materials for Merrill they had out this weekend, they show the new liftline designated as an actual trail now.  Not sure if it will have snowmaking and you cannot ski it straight off the top.  You will need to access it off the East Trail then turn right after crossing the bridge.  It's not as steep as I thought, but has good pitch and I'm thinking will not have snowmaking.  Given that, may not be open too often, looks East/Southeast so a lot of sun exposure.  Also, it appears there is a phase two of the development and if they ever get to that, a second lift off the back would happen.  That part I think will be more real estate access than real skiing for the limited sketches available this weekend.


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## Newpylong (Oct 10, 2021)

That doesn't surprise me as they had to grade the liftline enough to get towers in as they didn't want to use a helo. It will not have snowmaking.


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## machski (Oct 11, 2021)

ScottySkis said:


> Big news for Sunday River: an 8-pack will replace the Jordan Express, setting up a monster terrain expansion beyond Jordan Bowl. The Jordan Express will move over to Barker and replace that troubled lift.











						Sunday River 2030
					

Sunday River 2030 is a decade-long plan for sustainable growth and investments that will make the resort even better.




					2030.sundayriver.com
				




They have added the Western Reserve and the Jordan 8 into the 2030 plans.  As to the Western Reserve, that falls into the Long Term plans and quoting from the caption "In the coming decades, expand terrain beyond Jordan Bowl for what will become the Western Reserve."  Doubt that is happening anytime soon.


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## urungus (Nov 2, 2021)

Enormous lithium deposit found near Sunday River:








						Staggering $1.5 billion lithium deposit discovered near Newry
					

Measuring up to 36 feet in length, some of the lithium-bearing crystals are among the largest ever found.




					bangordailynews.com


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## deadheadskier (Nov 3, 2021)

urungus said:


> Enormous lithium deposit found near Sunday River:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's crazy.  Hopefully they reach an agreement with the state so they can mine it.   I'd lose my shit if I owned land that contained $1.5B with of rare metals and I couldn't benefit from it.

Reminds me of this guy I knew in Ludlow, VT who just happened to own the land that a huge talc deposit was found on.   Instantly became one of the wealthiest guys in the state when he sold off the land to a mining company.   Stayed in town and still had his tree felling business well into his 80s.  Took a few down for my parents.


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## thebigo (Nov 25, 2021)

Day #6 for me today was best yet. They got right stuff open, good cruising despite a few cookies. Cascade softened up, the late spring style bumps from Wednesday on punch were pushed out - good cruising. Spruce and south ridge look close if not ready. Tomorrow should be good with a few inches of natural hopefully mixed in.


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## machski (Nov 29, 2021)

For those counting, Barker is down once again, went down Sunday and down today and tomorrow at a minimum.  23-24 seems so far away.......


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## Newpylong (Nov 29, 2021)

It's up there with the Summit Triple at Attitash for WTF are you thinking?


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## machski (Nov 29, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> It's up there with the Summit Triple at Attitash for WTF are you thinking?


Yup, Boyne should cancel the Boyne 8 and instead add Barker 6 for next year too.  Send Jordan to SL for West Mountain.  Won't happen, but it should.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 29, 2021)

I really don't understand the logic in prioritizing Jordan over Barker.   People have been talking about the need to replace Barker for at least ten years.  You hardly ever hear folks talking about Jordan being a problem as is.


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## thebigo (Nov 29, 2021)

machski said:


> For those counting, Barker is down once again, went down Sunday and down today and tomorrow at a minimum.  23-24 seems so far away.......


Sunday morning was busy. I left before barker went down but the line for Locke must have been intense.


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## Newpylong (Nov 30, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I really don't understand the logic in prioritizing Jordan over Barker.   People have been talking about the need to replace Barker for at least ten years.  You hardly ever hear folks talking about Jordan being a problem as is.



In the simplest terms, I have find there are two types of management, those that prioritize what customers want, and those that prioritize what they want. Killington is the former, and Sunday River is turning into the latter.

Killington's customers wanted a lift on Snowdon, they wanted a lift returned to South Ridge, they wanted less intersections. Killington listened and did it.

Have not heard anyone ask for a new lift at Jordan over Barker. Have not heard of anyone want a new North Peak lift, but they want to put one there. People want a HSQ on White Cap, they just want to put a conveyer. etc.


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## drjeff (Nov 30, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> In the simplest terms, I have find there are two types of management, those that prioritize what customers want, and those that prioritize what they want. Killington is the former, and Sunday River is turning into the latter.
> 
> Killington's customers wanted a lift on Snowdon, they wanted a lift returned to South Ridge, they wanted less intersections. Killington listened and did it.
> 
> Have not heard anyone ask for a new lift at Jordan over Barker. Have not heard of anyone want a new North Peak lift, but they want to put one there. People want a HSQ on White Cap, they just want to put a conveyer. etc.


Agree!

I suppose in say 10 years when SR is likely well into their expansion/resort transformation as they want to, the attention now to Jordan and North Peak may make sense, especially when Barker gets the current Jordan HSQ 2 seasons from now, however in the immedaite future it sure seems like the choices they're making around Barker are likely to detract from the customer experience.

I wonder if this will end up being a situation where too much attention is now being spent on the say 5 and 10 year plans (which ARE GOOD things to have without a doubt) over some more pressing, say 1 or 2 year needs??


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> In the simplest terms, I have find there are two types of management, those that prioritize what customers want, and those that prioritize what they want. Killington is the former, and Sunday River is turning into the latter.
> 
> Killington's customers wanted a lift on Snowdon, they wanted a lift returned to South Ridge, they wanted less intersections. Killington listened and did it.
> 
> Have not heard anyone ask for a new lift at Jordan over Barker. Have not heard of anyone want a new North Peak lift, but they want to put one there. People want a HSQ on White Cap, they just want to put a conveyer. etc.



Agreed

Then there is a third category.  Management that doesn't do what they want, doesn't do what the customers want and only does what the shareholders want. 

Vail


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## Razor (Nov 30, 2021)

They fixed the Spruce Peak lift right away after it went down a few years ago.  The same urgency should apply to Barker.  Arguably Barker is the most important lift at the resort.


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## ss20 (Nov 30, 2021)

Razor said:


> They fixed the Spruce Peak lift right away after it went down a few years ago.  The same urgency should apply to Barker.  Arguably Barker is the most important lift at the resort.



To be fair I'm sure they were paid insurance $$$ to replace Spruce.

And they quarter-assed the lift removal.  People trying to ski under the spruce line on the mid-section of the lift scares the shit outta me with all the jagged debris.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2021)

Razor said:


> They fixed the Spruce Peak lift right away after it went down a few years ago.  The same urgency should apply to Barker.  Arguably Barker is the most important lift at the resort.



Barker definitely is the most important lift on the mountain.   Opens weeks before Jordan.  Last lift to close.  Can lap more terrain off that lift than any other lift on the mountain.


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## Vortex (Nov 30, 2021)

I have a different perspective, Jordan has issues mechanically, but it is down more for Wind hold than mechanical IMO.  Those that own in that area would prefer to see Jordan fixed first.  Jordan is awesome and so is Oz, if you can get in and out and stay there.  Plenty of Space to Expand terrain.

  Barker just goes down all the time. It is hard to get parts, so quick fixes sometimes take multiple days.
Mackski can give facts and figures.

  So they both needed to be done and both will happen at the same time.  No one wants to hear about Real estate and dollars invested. Sunday river is a Real Estate Goldmine. So much area to expand, Terrain and Loding wise, Condo' house lots and so forth.   The expansion dollars are not coming from ticket sales, they are coming from Real Estate.   Not many new houses going in by Barker.  No new revenue,


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## Newpylong (Nov 30, 2021)

The real estate perspective makes good sense, but I think to the run of the mill (non-real estate holding) passholder it only makes the issue worse.

A lift with mechanical issues is going to replace the other lift with mechanical issues (in two years). It will not add any further capacity besides a couple hundred FPM to the line speed.

Barker is the immediate need and its replacement would effect the largest amount of riders immediately. It should be new (6?), it is a signature lift. When they replace Jordan they can reinstall that quad somewhere else like Tempest or Aurora.


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## Razor (Nov 30, 2021)

Amen!!


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## Vortex (Nov 30, 2021)

My point is fixing Jordan gives them potential money to Finance other things due to Real Estate advantages.   Barker will not increase Revenue and I doubt many will stop buying tickets and passes, There has been no loss of business, not yet anyway, and next year it is fixed.  I will give them a change to succeed before I declare doom.

 I would love Barker to run, so everyone will go there and I can ski Aurora and Jordan.   I am a homer, so like any upgrades. It is all about snowmaking and length of Season.


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## machski (Nov 30, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> The real estate perspective makes good sense, but I think to the run of the mill (non-real estate holding) passholder it only makes the issue worse.
> 
> A lift with mechanical issues is going to replace the other lift with mechanical issues (in two years). It will not add any further capacity besides a couple hundred FPM to the line speed.
> 
> Barker is the immediate need and its replacement would effect the largest amount of riders immediately. It should be new (6?), it is a signature lift. When they replace Jordan they can reinstall that quad somewhere else like Tempest or Aurora.


The main issue with Jordan is the windhods as Vortex stated.  It is the first to go onto wind hold and the last to come off normally.  While Jordan hotel guests can get out at times on the Jordan Double, that lift was not a brand new design and was installed as cheap as possible (thus the high, level span coming out of the Jordan load/unload side) making it also prone to windhold issues.  Even with the double running, you cannot get guests back up to the hotel.  This has caused resale prices at the Jordan Hotel to plummet (Summit shares resale for double to triple what Jordan does even though Jordan is measurably better in terms of quality), many guests that get hung up with mutiday windholds rate the Jordan poorly and won't return, etc.  So the need to upgrade Jordan to a machine with better wind tolerance is definitely there.  As there is no actual day lodge on that side of the resort, a signature heated bubble chair makes sense to allow guests a break from the elements before heading to the Peak Lodge or beyond.

As to the Jordan lift flip, I expect they will have Dopp do a huge overhaul of the current Jordan Quad before it makes its way to Barker similar to what they did with Ramcharger to Shedhorn at BS.  They are promising it will be almost like new and just as reliable as a completely new lift.  That said, I agree with Newpylong that Barker is a major lift in the resorts network, it is THE workhorse lift in terms of hours run on it each year and being it is actually at a base lodge portal, deserves to be a new signature lift.  A six like the new Swift Current 6 at BS would be more than appropriate here.  Now, a storage facility for the Chairs, even if split half at base and half at summit would be a tight fit at Barker.  So that was apparently a concern I assume.  They also swear the T-Bar has alleviated the need for a large capacity increase on the Barker lift replacement.  Perhaps.  I'm fine if they use saved $$ to build a much larger Barker lodge, they need that if they intend to keep the racing program as large as it is.  The current Barker doesn't have enough room for the public and the racing communities midwinter on the weekends.  But that isn't in the stated plans.

I know many would love a detach out of White Cap.  With line lengths less than 4000', I just do not see them adding to the Detach fleet here.  Tempest is suppose to be carpet upgraded along with a new lift (whether that is just a new drive or entire thing, unknown).  If it adds a bit more speed either actual line speed or better loading flow and less slow/stops, fine.  Shipyard has been killing it at White Cap lodge with all their new dining options and entertainment out on the deck so I think the draw of WC as a start base is taking hold without a HSD there.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2021)

I think location probably also hurts resale at Jordan.  It's in the middle of nowhere compared to the East Side of the resort.  If I had my pick, I'd much prefer to be closer to the access road restaurants and Bethel.   I basically view Jordan to be like Sunrise/Bear at Killington.   It's too far removed from the action.  

I do enjoy Jordan and Oz terrain, but I just don't see it as the better part of the resort to be when the lifts close for the day.


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## machski (Nov 30, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I think location probably also hurts resale at Jordan.  It's in the middle of nowhere compared to the East Side of the resort.  If I had my pick, I'd much prefer to be closer to the access road restaurants and Bethel.   I basically view Jordan to be like Sunrise/Bear at Killington.   It's too far removed from the action.
> 
> I do enjoy Jordan and Oz terrain, but I just don't see it as the better part of the resort to be when the lifts close for the day.


There is that but the number one complaint is the pain when Jordan is on hold during season.  You cannot just head out on the slopes and make early tracks at Jordan/Oz.  You have to shuttle/drive over and White Cap is the closest lodge when you drive, the exact other end of the resort.  Perhaps the mountain will drop folks off at the top of Merrill Hill when it is open, that would be much shorter of a shuttle ride


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## 2Planker (Nov 30, 2021)

machski said:


> There is that but the number one complaint is the pain when Jordan is on hold during season.  You cannot just head out on the slopes and make early tracks at Jordan/Oz.  You have to shuttle/drive over and White Cap is the closest lodge when you drive, the exact other end of the resort.  Perhaps the mountain will drop folks off at the top of Merrill Hill when it is open, that would be much shorter of a shuttle ride


Hmmm....   Maybe time for a  West access Rd.,  straight to Jordan ?
               Been 30 years since that proposal


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## Riverveteran (Dec 2, 2021)

machski said:


> The main issue with Jordan is the windhods as Vortex stated.  It is the first to go onto wind hold and the last to come off normally.  While Jordan hotel guests can get out at times on the Jordan Double, that lift was not a brand new design and was installed as cheap as possible (thus the high, level span coming out of the Jordan load/unload side) making it also prone to windhold issues.  Even with the double running, you cannot get guests back up to the hotel.  This has caused resale prices at the Jordan Hotel to plummet (Summit shares resale for double to triple what Jordan does even though Jordan is measurably better in terms of quality), many guests that get hung up with mutiday windholds rate the Jordan poorly and won't return, etc.  So the need to upgrade Jordan to a machine with better wind tolerance is definitely there.  As there is no actual day lodge on that side of the resort, a signature heated bubble chair makes sense to allow guests a break from the elements before heading to the Peak Lodge or beyond.
> 
> As to the Jordan lift flip, I expect they will have Dopp do a huge overhaul of the current Jordan Quad before it makes its way to Barker similar to what they did with Ramcharger to Shedhorn at BS.  They are promising it will be almost like new and just as reliable as a completely new lift.  That said, I agree with Newpylong that Barker is a major lift in the resorts network, it is THE workhorse lift in terms of hours run on it each year and being it is actually at a base lodge portal, deserves to be a new signature lift.  A six like the new Swift Current 6 at BS would be more than appropriate here.  Now, a storage facility for the Chairs, even if split half at base and half at summit would be a tight fit at Barker.  So that was apparently a concern I assume.  They also swear the T-Bar has alleviated the need for a large capacity increase on the Barker lift replacement.  Perhaps.  I'm fine if they use saved $$ to build a much larger Barker lodge, they need that if they intend to keep the racing program as large as it is.  The current Barker doesn't have enough room for the public and the racing communities midwinter on the weekends.  But that isn't in the stated plans.
> 
> I know many would love a detach out of White Cap.  With line lengths less than 4000', I just do not see them adding to the Detach fleet here.  Tempest is suppose to be carpet upgraded along with a new lift (whether that is just a new drive or entire thing, unknown).  If it adds a bit more speed either actual line speed or better loading flow and less slow/stops, fine.  Shipyard has been killing it at White Cap lodge with all their new dining options and entertainment out on the deck so I think the draw of WC as a start base is taking hold without a HSD there.


White Cap is a fine facility, nicest restrooms on the mountain.


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## machski (Dec 15, 2021)

Just got back in, nice day and good conditions overall.  Jibe skis great with the slight trail mod and new snowmaking, also like how they regraded lights out to lower downdraft.  Big expansion coming, with multiple runs off Aurora and Jordan will be up soon.  Even making Cowardly Lion of the top of Oz today.  Doesn't look like they are concerned with lift ops staffing if making up there.  Snowbound-Obseasion skied great, mid and upper Obsession should start getting made after tomorrow's speed bump, White Heat quad was spinning for a while today too.

My guess is they start filling in down low when the temps finally drop Friday for the run into the holiday.  Little WC pod and Bear Paw for sure plus Ridge Run.  Upper Obsession is obviously on the hit list and I image WH immediately after.  Probably Excalibur in Jordan as well at a minimum.


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2021)

Looks like they are going quick.


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## machski (Dec 28, 2021)

Since we have been ripping Vail for staffing issues, figured I'd add SR into this.  This vacation week, they have backed off considerably from snowmaking efforts, only making on 2 or 3 unopened trails at a time this week.  My belief is that they are very short staffed, especially in lift ops and have shifted the bulk of the snowmaking team to lift ops over the holiday to allow for maximum lifts in operation.  Kind of crappy, but nature has been playing ok in Maine this week with mostly white, small refills and they got a ton made in the lead up.  I expect a full push to all uncovered terrain starting next Monday or Tuesday as they shift those snowmakers back to snow.


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## Riverveteran (Dec 28, 2021)

machski said:


> Since we have been ripping Vail for staffing issues, figured I'd add SR into this.  This vacation week, they have backed off considerably from snowmaking efforts, only making on 2 or 3 unopened trails at a time this week.  My belief is that they are very short staffed, especially in lift ops and have shifted the bulk of the snowmaking team to lift ops over the holiday to allow for maximum lifts in operation.  Kind of crappy, but nature has been playing ok in Maine this week with mostly white, small refills and they got a ton made in the lead up.  I expect a full push to all uncovered terrain starting next Monday or Tuesday as they shift those snowmakers back to snow.



My belief is it's not that cold.


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## Smellytele (Dec 28, 2021)

Riverveteran said:


> My belief is it's not that cold.


And probably a high wet bulb


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## machski (Dec 28, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> And probably a high wet bulb


No, actually I have confirmation both snowmaking personnel AND ski patrol are actually working lift ops this week.  Snowmaking is active on Tempest, not the highest elevation trail they have remaining so that theory of not so cold as the reason is out the window (if it were, they'd likely be on Upper DD, upper Vortex and Northern lights).


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## MadKitty (Dec 28, 2021)

machski said:


> No, actually I have confirmation both snowmaking personnel AND ski patrol are actually working lift ops this week.  Snowmaking is active on Tempest, not the highest elevation trail they have remaining so that theory of not so cold as the reason is out the window (if it were, they'd likely be on Upper DD, upper Vortex and Northern lights).


Sunday River is putting out a great product for their customers though. Have a pass there for the first time in several years and I've been beyond impressed with their operations. A+


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## machski (Jan 10, 2022)

It is now at a minimum a trend and likely to continue to play through the season, but Sunday River isn't running full lift access to all its terrain idweek this year due to staffing.  Both White Heat and Aurora will not run this week and pretty much didn't last week too.  Unsure if this is lack due to sick calls/Covid or just lack of hired.  Guess we will see as the weeks progress.  At least this week they are calling those terrain pods open for those willing to uphill and/or hike (even without Locke spinning, White Cap summit is a pretty easy hike across Locke to the summit for anyone).  What does surprise me a bit is not actually using the Aurora work road as a ski out trail from Aurora.  Sure there is a bit of uphill skating required, but no real heavy uphill.  And half the road is already a "ski trail" being Yetivilles Exit and soon even further up coming off the Western Merrill Trail (which will add snowmaking to that half of Aurora Road next year).  

Kind of surprised we don't have a staffing thread outside of the Vail Sucks thread.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 10, 2022)

machski said:


> It is now at a minimum a trend and likely to continue to play through the season, but Sunday River isn't running full lift access to all its terrain idweek this year due to staffing.  Both White Heat and Aurora will not run this week and pretty much didn't last week too.  Unsure if this is lack due to sick calls/Covid or just lack of hired.  Guess we will see as the weeks progress.  At least this week they are calling those terrain pods open for those willing to uphill and/or hike (even without Locke spinning, White Cap summit is a pretty easy hike across Locke to the summit for anyone).  What does surprise me a bit is not actually using the Aurora work road as a ski out trail from Aurora.  Sure there is a bit of uphill skating required, but no real heavy uphill.  And half the road is already a "ski trail" being Yetivilles Exit and soon even further up coming off the Western Merrill Trail (which will add snowmaking to that half of Aurora Road next year).
> 
> Kind of surprised we don't have a staffing thread outside of the Vail Sucks thread.



So are they running Quantum triple or Jordan double so you can still ski Aurora trails?  Or is it completely shut down?


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## machski (Jan 10, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> So are they running Quantum triple or Jordan double so you can still ski Aurora trails?  Or is it completely shut down?


Completely shut down in Aurora Basin.  They never run the double or triple midweek unless winds force Jordan and Aurora Quads shut, then they shift the staff.  Which is why I wonder why they don't advertise Aurora Road as an exit option, I've used several times late season after Aurora is officially closed by North/Chondi still going.  If groomed, really not bad on skis anyway.  Boarders won't like it but better than hiking out for sure.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 10, 2022)

No Aurora is bad but no White Cap is really bad.

Is that work road uphill to the top of White Cap from Locke? The one that you take to get to Bim's Whim. Not that it would really help anyone who isn't looking for an adventure anyway lol.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 10, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> No Aurora is bad but no White Cap is really bad.
> 
> Is that work road uphill to the top of White Cap from Locke? The one that you take to get to Bim's Whim. Not that it would really help anyone who isn't looking for an adventure anyway lol.



Interesting that you feel that White Cap is a bigger deal than Aurora.  White Heat is obviously the most famous trail in both pods, but I think Aurora is a bigger loss overall as far as what the pod offers.  Air Glow and Northern Lights are two of my favorite cruisers.  Vortex is often a sheet of ice, but still can be fun.   Then again Shockwave is a great trail on White Cap too.  

Close call


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## Newpylong (Jan 10, 2022)

I missed that that they aren't running a lift (Quantum or Jordan Double) out of there, I ASSumed they were and you could ski the top 70% of all that stuff from Jordan or Spruce. Yeah, that's bad too....


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## Dickc (Jan 10, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> No Aurora is bad but no White Cap is really bad.
> 
> Is that work road uphill to the top of White Cap from Locke? The one that you take to get to Bim's Whim. Not that it would really help anyone who isn't looking for an adventure anyway lol.


From the top of Locke, you climb like you are going to Bim's, but go over toward White heat before you wound go down to Bim's but then ski gently downhill for a bit.  Then there is a somewhat steeper climb up to the top of White Heat.  Its not all that long, and perhaps 100 vertical.


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## machski (Jan 10, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Interesting that you feel that White Cap is a bigger deal than Aurora.  White Heat is obviously the most famous trail in both pods, but I think Aurora is a bigger loss overall as far as what the pod offers.  Air Glow and Northern Lights are two of my favorite cruisers.  Vortex is often a sheet of ice, but still can be fun.   Then again Shockwave is a great trail on White Cap too.
> 
> Close call


Yeah, right now all of Aurora's snowmaking terrain is open (save for Quantum) where as Shockwave has yet to see snowmaking and is closed off WH.  I'd prefer to see Aurora Quad spinning and Spruce idled if short staffed.  Spruce is an easy enough hike up Sirius and we did it for an entire season after the old triple topled over the summer before.


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## 2Planker (Jan 10, 2022)

Dickc said:


> From the top of Locke, you climb like you are going to Bim's, but go over toward White heat before you wound go down to Bim's but then ski gently downhill for a bit.  Then there is a somewhat steeper climb up to the top of White Heat.  Its not all that long, and perhaps 100 vertical.


Past the granite bench commemorating a Patroller who passed from breast cancer.....


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## deadheadskier (Jan 10, 2022)

machski said:


> Yeah, right now all of Aurora's snowmaking terrain is open (save for Quantum) where as Shockwave has yet to see snowmaking and is closed off WH.  I'd prefer to see Aurora Quad spinning and Spruce idled if short staffed.  Spruce is an easy enough hike up Sirius and we did it for an entire season after the old triple topled over the summer before.



I agree about shuttering Spruce before Aurora.  

If I were a pass holder there, I'd ask Brian Heon that question.   People do really love Risky and Amex, but no question Aurora is the better terrain


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## skef (Jan 10, 2022)

machski said:


> […] Spruce is an easy enough hike up Sirius and we did it for an entire season after the old triple topled over the summer before.


That was a special season, hitting the stuff off of Spruce peak that surprisingly few people were willing to hike up — what, 50 feet? — for.


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## parahelia (Jan 11, 2022)

skef said:


> That was a special season, hitting the stuff off of Spruce peak that surprisingly few people were willing to hike up — what, 50 feet? — for.


I have really fond memories of that season.  My youngest was 4 and by doing that hike, got to ski nearly-empty AmEx and Risky.  A great way to build confidence before going to the more-trafficked blues.


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## machski (Jan 11, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I agree about shuttering Spruce before Aurora.
> 
> If I were a pass holder there, I'd ask Brian Heon that question.   People do really love Risky and Amex, but no question Aurora is the better terrain


Some are citing the fact Spruce has a full patrol hut at the top and Aurora does not (the season Spruce was out of commission, Aurora did still have the crappy little patrol hut just to the left of the Aurora Quad unload).  Still, the Jordan hut reaches all the same Aurora terrain except Upper Vortex and Aludra.  And if this is the reason its Spruce over Aurora, they are still allowing climbing/hiking/skinning for WH/Obsession and Salvation which would make me think they are in fact staffing the patrol hut atop WC without a lift running to it.  

I'm going to venture its the surge causing this extreme lift truncation midweek, and not just the low hired staffing levels.  If this was a known plan due to lack of hired staff, I would have thought SR would have already blown Upper Downdraft to give a full 3 runs off the top of Spruce.  That piece seems odd and off to me.


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## 2Planker (Jan 11, 2022)

machski said:


> Some are citing the fact Spruce has a full patrol hut at the top and Aurora does not (the season Spruce was out of commission, Aurora did still have the crappy little patrol hut just to the left of the Aurora Quad unload).  *Still, the Jordan hut reaches all the same Aurora terrain* except Upper Vortex and Aludra.  And if this is the reason its Spruce over Aurora, they are still allowing climbing/hiking/skinning for WH/Obsession and Salvation which would make me think they are in fact staffing the patrol hut atop WC without a lift running to it.
> 
> I'm going to venture its the surge causing this extreme lift truncation midweek, and not just the low hired staffing levels.  If this was a known plan due to lack of hired staff, I would have thought SR would have already blown Upper Downdraft to give a full 3 runs off the top of Spruce.  That piece seems odd and off to me.


     Upper Airglow and the top of NL are a bitch to get Code coverage to if coming from Jordan top.
Still have to grab the sled from the top of Aurora/return #12

I was one of 3 patrollers who actually built that POS Aurora shack in 1992. Surprised it lasted as long as it did...


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## machski (Jan 11, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Upper Airglow and the top of NL are a bitch to get Code coverage to if coming from Jordan top.
> Still have to grab the sled from the top of Aurora/return #12
> 
> I was one of 3 patrollers who actually built that POS Aurora shack in 1992. Surprised it lasted as long as it did...


So what makes it any easier for those coming from Spruce?  The patrol chute in the woods that comes out a bit further up Borealis?  

I think you underestimate your carpentry skills


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## 2Planker (Jan 11, 2022)

machski said:


> So what makes it any easier for those coming from Spruce?  The patrol chute in the woods that comes out a bit further up Borealis?
> 
> I think you underestimate your carpentry skills


Yes,  from Spruce top we'd hoof it thru the woods  to a sled stashed there for Vortex, or continue hoofing to the Shack to grab different sled and ski it down Upper Airglow or NL.

That shack was our demo model.
We built the Spruce one, the next year in 1993.
Then we retired from building. Probably a good thing


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## Newpylong (Jan 11, 2022)

So the one atop Aurora is gone not replaced now?

Love the stories and I loved working with the patrollers.


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## parahelia (Jan 18, 2022)

SR doesn't get a lot of commentary here, so thought I'd post an update.  With 100 trails open, SR has had a low-key and solid start to the season despite the poor weather and staffing challenges.  After reading the Vail thread, I'm definitely not taking the snowmaking efforts for granted.

We skied during the storm on Monday.  It snowed, sometimes heavily, through 2:30pm or so.  There was a tiny amount of sleet mixed in at the end, but then by precipitation had slowed quite a bit, so it was predominantly a snow event.  They claim 11" fell and that sounds about right to me.

It was definitely the best skiing I've had this year thus far.  The heavy snow all day long kept things soft and fun, especially on the sides.  They had blown snow on Top Gun and Shockwave prior to the snow, Top Gun was a blast (didn't make the hike over to Shockwave once White Heat went down for wind).  Some of the woods and natural trails started to open - finally.

The winds started to pick up mid-morning but only Jordan and WH went down for wind.  My daughter was stopped a few chairs ahead of me on the Jordan chair at the spot where the wind really kicks in (by Rogue Angel) and said it was scary with a lot of swinging around.  Patrol shut it down shortly after that.  I was worried that with Jordan gone lines would be bad but after a brief clog related to the Jordan shutdown they were minimal.  The longest was ~5 minutes for Spruce midday; spent a lot of time in Aurora which was ski-on.

Now the woods just need to fill in a little more.


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## machski (Jan 22, 2022)

Finally got back up.  Dog no longer liking condo sucks as is holding us back a bit this year.  Very progressive on trail/Glade openings this year.  Glad Carumba is open, want to ski that a ton this season before it is forever widened next year.  Ruby was closed (bummer, guess it was open for a day).  Hit Hardball off the WH mid entrance.  Not bad, still a bit low tide but found some nice untracked lines mostly snowsnake free.  Hit a few other off map lines, not bad but need to tread carefully given the low tide.  Shockwave was fun, hope they put a bit more gunsmoke on it, especially at the rock garden section.  They have hit all the major, long run trails this year (except both Oz runs and Agony) but they have skipped over Upper Downdraft and Blackhole and doesn't appear they have any intention to get on those given lack of guns/hose.  Oh well, still darn nice to see so much open and skiing nicely


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## Newpylong (Jan 22, 2022)

Quantum Leap I think passed over too thus far.

Upper Downdraft is weird isn't it?


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## machski (Jan 22, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Quantum Leap I think passed over too thus far.
> 
> Upper Downdraft is weird isn't it?


Yeah, very weird and I thought maybe guns would be set up but no.  Quantum is often one of the last done so that isn't a surprise.  Blackhole is a bigger surprise.  Heard today Lost Princess may be on deck next, though Eureka unlikely to see guns yet again this year.


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## Terry (Jan 23, 2022)

Shawnee is really cranking out the snow this year. Only 3 snowmaking trails left to blow and 2 of those haven't been blown on for a few years. They have refreshed all the open trails a few times and have a super deep base. Maybe staying open a bit longer in spring? Yay Boyne! Well done


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## thebigo (Jan 23, 2022)

Terry said:


> Shawnee is really cranking out the snow this year. Only 3 snowmaking trails left to blow and 2 of those haven't been blown on for a few years. They have refreshed all the open trails a few times and have a super deep base. Maybe staying open a bit longer in spring? Yay Boyne! Well done


As a long time Peaks passholder and current vail refugee spending many midweek days at loon. The snowmaking has been beyond impressive, they are relentless and have offered an excellent surface on ever expanding terrain all year. From my perspective it appears boyne invests in snowmaking first, then let's the fancy lifts follow only when when capacity and every efficiency has been realized.


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## Newpylong (Jan 23, 2022)

Shawnee has always been extremely aggressive with snowmaking, its not exactly a Boyne thing. Look at the increase in pumping and all the new equipment they've done in the past 5 years.


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## oldfartrider (Jan 23, 2022)

Is the Ikon pass good at Shawnee?


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## machski (Jan 23, 2022)

oldfartrider said:


> Is the Ikon pass good at Shawnee?


No, not this year anyway.  Even the New England Pass didn't give Shawnee access this year.


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## machski (Jan 23, 2022)

thebigo said:


> As a long time Peaks passholder and current vail refugee spending many midweek days at loon. The snowmaking has been beyond impressive, they are relentless and have offered an excellent surface on ever expanding terrain all year. From my perspective it appears boyne invests in snowmaking first, then let's the fancy lifts follow only when when capacity and every efficiency has been realized.


Yes, Loon has been good and I would say Boyne does focus on snowmaking well before the glaringly fancy stuff.  Good idea IMHO, you have to have the product before you put on the glitzy finishing touches.  I have felt the snowmaking on South has been a bt sluggish this season, usually they have pushed more onto Ripsaw to widen the steepest pitch by now and even Lower Twitcher is still a bit narrow in spots.  But overall, they have been as aggressive as normal, maybe even more so than last season.  Now, if they can get the teething pains on the Kanc8 straightened out (and crib notes sent to SR for next season with the Jordan8) would be great.


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## Terry (Jan 24, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Shawnee has always been extremely aggressive with snowmaking, its not exactly a Boyne thing. Look at the increase in pumping and all the new equipment they've done in the past 5 years.


But the owner wouldn't let them run it much. Just enough to get trails open and that's it.  Couldn't run it during peak electrical hours either.


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## skef (Jan 25, 2022)

Mulling a Friday+Saturday mini road-trip to hit Loon on the way to Sunday River in what looks like a decent storm. Saturday looking a bit windy, however, which is giving me pause. Generally speaking, what kind of wind speeds will shut down multiple lifts at SR?


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## Hawk (Jan 25, 2022)

It varies and wind direction plays a big part.  I am sure Mach will give us all kinds of info.  But to plan your trip this far out on what we think will not give you good results.  I would say winds above 30 with larger gusts and you are going to see all kinds of shutdowns.


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## Andrew B. (Jan 25, 2022)

Looks like it's going to be the prevailing N-NW and gusty
Jordan and White Heat will likely be down significant parts of the day. They have been a lot more liberal running the Chondi the last copule of seasons (IMO) but if it exceeds 30 it and Barker will be down. If the winds get much over that and you can expect LWC and SRX to be the only lifts running.

Edit: it sems takes a real good breeze to shutter then NP lift so it has run when others do not.


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## machski (Jan 25, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> Looks like it's going to be the prevailing N-NW and gusty
> Jordan and White Heat will likely be down significant parts of the day. They have been a lot more liberal running the Chondi the last copule of seasons (IMO) but if it exceeds 30 it and Barker will be down. If the winds get much over that and you can expect LWC and SRX to be the only lifts running.
> 
> Edit: it sems takes a real good breeze to shutter then NP lift so it has run when others do not.


Will the winds Saturday really be N-NW?  Thinking more NNE being a Nor'easter.  Condo isn't quite as bad with that wind, but Jordan still very susceptible to that as is Spruce and White Heat.  Aurora a bit better on that direction, North probably ok.  While not yet in play, that is the one direction that can take out Oz Quad.  We'll see, Euro has this a good hit for the Maine mountains, the GFS not so much (low center is tracking too far East on that model). 

For the record, last Sun-Mon storm had Loon completely shutdown Sunday due to winds while SR only lost Jordan and White Heat.  Nor'easter storms can do some wacky stuff.


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## machski (Jan 25, 2022)

Meanwhile, first time I have seen a Klik Hydrant used without a modern Impulse or similar HKD gun.  Apparently this is a new version of the Klik that can be used with almost any Lower E gun.  Sunday River has these set up on the Merrill West Trail.


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## johnl87 (Jan 25, 2022)

skef said:


> Mulling a Friday+Saturday mini road-trip to hit Loon on the way to Sunday River in what looks like a decent storm. Saturday looking a bit windy, however, which is giving me pause. Generally speaking, what kind of wind speeds will shut down multiple lifts at SR?


if bullwinkle sneezes at mount abram, half of sunday river goes on windhold.


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## Newpylong (Jan 25, 2022)

machski said:


> Meanwhile, first time I have seen a Klik Hydrant used without a modern Impulse or similar HKD gun.  Apparently this is a new version of the Klik that can be used with almost any Lower E gun.  Sunday River has these set up on the Merrill West Trail.
> View attachment 52856



Looks like an HKD Ranger. 

Is the River making any effort to work on making snow on the list of remaining blacks?

I love those Dopp terminals the red looks sharp.


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## Quietman (Jan 26, 2022)

johnl87 said:


> if bullwinkle sneezes at mount abram, half of sunday river goes on windhold.


I laugh very little and that was  funny!   A Boris Badenov fart would definitely have the same effect.

Winds on Sat could be nasty if the storm doesn't take a turn too far out to sea.  Black of ME's triple is very sheltered, and Mt Abram has the newly painted t-bar if the Way Back machine needs to be shut, but that is a rare occasion.  I would gladly ski either of those during a dump instead of enduring SR's frequent wind shutdowns.


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## machski (Jan 26, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Looks like an HKD Ranger.
> 
> Is the River making any effort to work on making snow on the list of remaining blacks?
> 
> I love those Dopp terminals the red looks sharp.


Doesn't seem so.  Agony, Upper DD, Blackhole, Quantum and all of Oz don't have any guns pulled out and connected with hose.  They could surprise us, but after Sunday night, haven't heard a whisper even coming from the snowflake factory.  I would hope they at least make Lost Princess in Oz, even if they don't intend to spin Oz Quad as that is an easy lap off Jordan.  Upper DD would be nice but anything else isn't likely I fear.


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## Newpylong (Jan 26, 2022)

That seems crazy, I wonder if they got the carpet pulled out from them budget wise, or if there is a system issue or the staff is just getting some time off.


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## Andrew B. (Jan 26, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> That seems crazy, I wonder if they got the carpet pulled out from them budget wise, or if there is a system issue or the staff is just getting some time off.


They didnt blow agony last year and IMO it was a good call. No snowmaking under the Braker lift IMO helped keep that frankenlift running.


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## machski (Jan 27, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> They didnt blow agony last year and IMO it was a good call. No snowmaking under the Braker lift IMO helped keep that frankenlift running.


Yes that, but Agony's current state is prime for an overnight make of smoke dry in this cold.  Just packed enough they don't need to load it, just add some fresh, soft material.  Doubt it's a system issue, likely banking some $$ for possible recoveries headed into Presidents vacation period.  End of the 7 day and this weekends storm constantly shifting to a miss, they may need it.  
Also I'd bet money Merrill West Trail is the Merrill preview with the lift over Presidents weekend


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## skef (Jan 30, 2022)

Quietman said:


> Winds on Sat could be nasty if the storm doesn't take a turn too far out to sea.  Black of ME's triple is very sheltered, and Mt Abram has the newly painted t-bar if the Way Back machine needs to be shut, but that is a rare occasion.  I would gladly ski either of those during a dump instead of enduring SR's frequent wind shutdowns.


Saturday turned out ok — some lifts shut down — maybe because of winds — late in the day, but I was basically done by then. The afternoon snow was a real treat. Had to skip Sunday, and it looked like that’s when the wind was really an issue.

Despite the crowds, SR delivered.


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## parahelia (Jan 31, 2022)

skef said:


> Saturday turned out ok — some lifts shut down — maybe because of winds — late in the day, but I was basically done by then. The afternoon snow was a real treat. Had to skip Sunday, and it looked like that’s when the wind was really an issue.
> 
> Despite the crowds, SR delivered.


Saturday afternoon was delightful! When is American Express ever the run of the day at 3:30 pm? Loved the snow filling in those soft bumps on the side.

We sat out Sunday as well.  With the wind holds in the morning it was down to just a few lifts.  The parking lots were PACKED on Sunday; they were parking people in Lot 6 uphill of White Cap.  We skied down to White Cap from the condo, saw the entire landing filled with the line for Tempest & Little White Cap, and noped our way back up the hill.  I gather things opened up some by afternoon for the folks who stuck it out.  

This week should be great for the woods - with all the wind, I suspect that's where most of the snow went.  We didn't even have to dig out our car Sunday since the wind blasted all the snow somewhere else.


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## machski (Jan 31, 2022)

skef said:


> Saturday turned out ok — some lifts shut down — maybe because of winds — late in the day, but I was basically done by then. The afternoon snow was a real treat. Had to skip Sunday, and it looked like that’s when the wind was really an issue.
> 
> Despite the crowds, SR delivered.


Was a good weekend.  Saturday the lifts held up well to the winds, they were Northerly and without that West component, most stayed open.  WH being the most exposed to all directions other than South went on hold first around 1245p.  Surprisingly Locke went on hold about 3p second (only 30 minutes ahead of normal close) and Spruce went on hold shortly after.  They were monitoring Barker but believe it turned til the end of day and Aurora and Jordan both stayed open all day.  Not sure if Chondi closed early on twilight skiing or not, the winds really picked up after 5pm.

Sunday the winds turned NW and took out all upper lifts to start the day (highest lift running was North Peak).  T-Bar crapped out for about 45 minutes (two many stops due to public peeps having zero clue how to ride a T).  Made a few skin laps up Barker, winds had blown the trails bare if ungroomed and even then, parts were down to ice.  Woods may have packed in but I avoided most as it was very thin to begin with and with the winds we had during the storm, even the tree lines were likely very blown out in many spots.  Still, good base and if late week pans out with more white on back half than wet during the front half, will set us up great in the trees.


----------



## Newpylong (Feb 3, 2022)

machski said:


> Yes that, but Agony's current state is prime for an overnight make of smoke dry in this cold.  Just packed enough they don't need to load it, just add some fresh, soft material.  Doubt it's a system issue, likely banking some $$ for possible recoveries headed into Presidents vacation period.  End of the 7 day and this weekends storm constantly shifting to a miss, they may need it.
> Also I'd bet money Merrill West Trail is the Merrill preview with the lift over Presidents weekend



Spoke with my contact there and you're correct. They are just picking and choosing what to cover, watching visitation #s vs spend. Electricity is reportedly pretty expensive for them this year. Can't see the SR crowd letting that fly too long...


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## machski (Feb 4, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Spoke with my contact there and you're correct. They are just picking and choosing what to cover, watching visitation #s vs spend. Electricity is reportedly pretty expensive for them this year. Can't see the SR crowd letting that fly too long...


Two weeks ago they were standing on the fact that they were ahead of everyone else in New England terrain wise (and yes, they were).  I'd let the half runs go (upper DD, BlackHole, Quantum) but all of Oz empty is poor IMHO.  Of course, looks like mother nature may be bailing them out now on that front.

Edit:. I've heard electricity is now 6X what it was at this time last year for them.  Not sure if they tried to setup their electric but differently or were somehow subject to big rate hikes they couldn't avoid.  I know a lot of power generation costs in NE are spiking this January and/or February at the residential level.  Looks like ma nature did pull thru, now 100% open.  And I guess the higher electric costs won't stop them from spinning Oz for the first time this year today.


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## oldfartrider (Feb 5, 2022)

What an incredible day was yesterday. Been a long time since I got so many fresh tracks.


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## parahelia (Feb 7, 2022)

Last weekend was the type of skiing you dream about.  It was the reason you grind out the groomers all Dec/Jan, so your legs are ready to go all day when the trees are finally in.

I’m still beat.  Everything was skiable.  Coverage was terrific.  I was still getting fresh tracks in spots midday on Sunday.

I heard the mountain was packed, 10K+ and traffic out to Bethel.  But with all the lifts and terrain open, you wouldn’t know it on the mountain.  I lapped Oz, Aurora, White Heat with no lines both days.  Jordan built a line mid mornings, but I think even that was <10mins. Never went to South Ridge so can’t speak to the lines there.

The only down side… we hit it so hard that I got skier’s toe! It’s never happened before, but those were two long, aggressive days in the woods and bumps.  I guess I need to get my boot tweaked. But mostly I just want it to stop hurting so I can get after it again this weekend…

(I realize on some level all woods pix look similar, but can’t resist…)


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## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2022)

parahelia said:


> The only down side… we hit it so hard that I got skier’s toe! It’s never happened before, but those were two long, aggressive days in the woods and bumps.  I guess I need to get my boot tweaked. But mostly I just want it to stop hurting so I can get after it again this weekend…
> 
> More likely too far in the backseat


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## parahelia (Feb 8, 2022)

> More likely too far in the backseat


Yeah, I think you're right, now that I think about it.  I could feel that contact on the top of my toes when I was getting in the backseat.  And it's been a while since there's been that much snow, so it happened more than I'd like.  

Clearly, the solution is for it to snow this much a lot more often.


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## machski (Feb 13, 2022)

Great day yesterday at the River as I'm sure most of NE was with the spring warmth.  The natural closures are mounting this morning due to the freeze up and the 10 day isn't promising for a good recovery.  Though the river did indicate today the guns are coming back online this week.

Now looks like the sea storm is tracking a bit closer, but not close enough.  Blue Hills and Yawagoo for the win again tonight.


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## machski (Feb 24, 2022)

Well, SR has once again dropped a cabin to the ground off the Chondola.  Unfortunately this time it was while they were trying to unload the lift and shut it down with a passenger inside.  The previous drop several years ago was while they were racking a cabin on the storage rack at the top by hand.  That cabin dropped a similar height and the cabin was totalled.  Not good.









						Chairlift incident at Sunday River | Media Center
					

February 23, 2022




					www.sundayriver.com


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## pinion247 (Feb 24, 2022)

machski said:


> Well, SR has once again dropped a cabin to the ground off the Chondola.  Unfortunately this time it was while they were trying to unload the lift and shut it down with a passenger inside.  The previous drop several years ago was while they were racking a cabin on the storage rack at the top by hand.  That cabin dropped a similar height and the cabin was totalled.  Not good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I drove up into MWV from Boston yesterday afternoon and those gusts were wicked... like "catch the side of the car / ski box and shift you into another driving lane" wicked. Glad to hear that kid is ok. Makes for a good story when he gets back to school on Monday.


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## thebigo (Mar 16, 2022)

Heading up with the kids Friday, planning a full day, they have only skied SR early or late season with operations contracted to Barker.

What is our best bet for on mountain lunch? Looking for pub food, kids menu and decent draft beer.

I used to park at Whitecap to avoid crowds and the Barker hike. Do they allow you to cubby your bags outside at whitecap? Boot up inside?


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## Andrew B. (Mar 16, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Heading up with the kids Friday, planning a full day, they have only skied SR early or late season with operations contracted to Barker.
> 
> What is our best bet for on mountain lunch? Looking for pub food, kids menu and decent draft beer.
> 
> I used to park at Whitecap to avoid crowds and the Barker hike. Do they allow you to cubby your bags outside at whitecap? Boot up inside?



Whit Cap has outside cubbies and inside booting 

The foggy google at South Ridge lodge has good beer menu and good food selections. On a Friday it shouldn’t be that crowded.

Shipyard at White Cap has good pub food and beer. If you’re not a fan of Shipyards Beers the barker lodge upstairs bar has a good selection on chicken finger/burger type menu.


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## Smellytele (Mar 16, 2022)

Why are we posting in a thread with 20-21 in its title?


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## machski (Mar 18, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Why are we posting in a thread with 20-21 in its title?


Because we don't have a dedicated SR thread other than this.  OP titled it badly.


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## thebigo (Mar 18, 2022)

Awesome day, we are closing in on 70 and this was one of the best. Boyne just tries harder, they deliver a far better experience than any of the other big players.


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## parahelia (Mar 18, 2022)

Agreed - we’ve had a great season at Sunday River despite subpar weather. Today was just terrific.  The sun is melting things fast, but there were awesome big bumps to be had on Shockwave and Top Gun.  The vibe at White Cap was all spring - people spilling out everywhere, music, slush.

I just hope tomorrow’s rain doesn’t wash out too much. I was hoping for another month or so.


Sweet shockwave bumps


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## Newpylong (Mar 19, 2022)

Booster station going in top of Chondola this off season as well as new valve stations on top of Spruce and Jordan with 1 on bottom of Amex. MH next phase also supposedly happenening.

My friend is doing the snowmaking work as a contractor.


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## urungus (Mar 19, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Awesome day, we are closing in on 70 and this was one of the best. Boyne just tries harder, they deliver a far better experience than any of the other big players.


@thebigo I’ve never been to SR, whats that cool little hut in your first picture ?


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## Smellytele (Mar 19, 2022)

its a little nome house in the glades enchanted forest


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## machski (Mar 19, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> its a little nome house in the glades enchanted forest


Actually it's in North Woods (other side of Absolutely) and it's Eddie the Yeti's house.


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## Smellytele (Mar 19, 2022)

machski said:


> Actually it's in North Woods (other side of Absolutely) and it's Eddie the Yeti's house.


Isn't enchanted forest below Northwoods...


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## Andrew B. (Mar 19, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Isn't enchanted forest below Northwoods...
> 
> View attachment 53749


Two different trails
Northwoods is a solid black glade
Enchanted Forest is a beginner blue glade


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## machski (Mar 19, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Isn't enchanted forest below Northwoods...
> 
> View attachment 53749


Mm, the map wants to blenderize it all.  Enchanted forest is really marked as skier's right of Absolutely which is the North Peak Liftline trail below Ridge Run.  North Woods starts as a double black Glade adjacent to Northern Exposure (upper North liftline) and then is a marked black below Ridge Run.  Honestly, they also cut a path wide enough for a cat to groom from Absolutely down and just below Eddie's house and then down to the exit of North Woods when snow depth permits.  So the kiddos can ski easily to Eddie's (it has tire swings and a few other kid favorites outside it).


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## parahelia (Mar 22, 2022)

Blowing snow on White Heat on 3/22, and planning to hit some other areas tonight? I'm impressed, even if it is season pass selling season.


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## thebigo (Mar 22, 2022)

Just checked the webcams, hitting heat hard on March 22.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 22, 2022)

yea, i havent been to sunday river yet this year but I've been planning out this coming weekend and saw they still have over 100 trails open. and that webcam looks pretty damn good. i got a cheap hotel in lincoln nh, plan to drive up Friday, hit the river Saturday, and hit waterville or loon sunday.


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## Razor (Mar 22, 2022)

River opens at 8 on Saturday and will be packed.  Get there early.  Loon will be packed on Sunday as well.


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## thebigo (Mar 22, 2022)

> After a beautiful day on the mountain, we’re celebrating by turning on the snow guns! Snowmakers are ready and waiting to get on the hill and get those guns firing top to bottom – we're planning on making snow overnight across Exodus, Grand Junction, Upper and Lower Bear Claw and turning on the fans at Governor Adams Base too.



This is why Boyne can charge a premium for their passes.


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## skef (Mar 22, 2022)

thebigo said:


> This is why Boyne can charge a premium for their passes.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506376485095026699


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## JDMRoma (Mar 22, 2022)

thebigo said:


> This is why Boyne can charge a premium for their passes.


You get what you pay for ! my first year with the NE Bronze pass, Loon mid week has been pretty darn good all season . Already renewed for next year.


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## machski (Mar 25, 2022)

The River was fantastic this afternoon!  Spring corn, with a couple inches of snozzle on top, reopened iCarumba! for sendoff weekend at Jordan and made Top Gun, Vortex, Shockwave and White Heat a ton of fun!  If you're looking for great skiing and deep base depths, look no further and get up here!


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## Smellytele (Mar 25, 2022)

A little shiny in that 2nd pic


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## machski (Mar 26, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> A little shiny in that 2nd pic


No doubt there is ice on the upper part of the run, but its what is holding the base together so well up there.  Skied right over it, didn't really mess up the skiing honestly.  Enough fresh snurf down I guess to blend with the melting/wet ice.  Still delighted they had it open, kind of doubt it would be if this wasn't the goodbye weekend.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 26, 2022)

good stuff out here today

my legs are dunzo but going up white cap again now


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## jaytrem (Mar 26, 2022)

Only 30 runs, pathetic!  I was knocking out about 100 per day while I was in the midwest last week.

Seriously though, looks like a nice full day, way to get at it!


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## NYDB (Mar 26, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> A little shiny in that 2nd pic


That’ll beat you up.  Gotta know when to fold em.  its Tough growing new cartilage


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## NYDB (Mar 26, 2022)

jaytrem said:


> Only 30 runs, pathetic!  I was knocking out about 100 per day while I was in the midwest last week.
> 
> Seriously though, looks like a nice full day, way to get at it!


Solid vert there.  And the horizontal is crazy


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 26, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Solid vert there.  And the horizontal is crazy



sunday river has some really fun lines when there is snow. all the natural terrain off jordan and oz, gnarnia, the woods to either side of white cap. but holy shit it is such a bunch of fucking sub 1400 vertical pods. 31 runs to get 40k vert! not complaining, had a great day, but horizontal is right. i parked at white cap and it was sunny and warm and i only wore my glove liners and i shed a flannel i normally wear. then i trekked to jordan to start skiing and wanted to be warmer and my car was so far. it got warmer around 11 tho and it was all good. took like 4 runs to get all the way across to jordan and then slowly worked my way back skiing everything that was open. a lot of terrain available. impressive considering the bullshit.


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## machski (Mar 26, 2022)

Was a great day, got a bit over 38K vert in myself.  Kusty, hope you looked around especially in the afternoon.  While none of our sustained or steep trees were really in play, 3 solid off map spots skied great once the snow softened later on.  Don't know if they ever dropped the rope on iCarumba! again, they had not as of noon.  But they did on Top Gun and Shockwave.  Even Upper Downdraft which was au natrual this season and skied great, except for the narrow exit line at the bottom.  They didn't open that yesterday oddly enough, perhaps saving it for the weekend?  Loved Excalibur ungroomed though many were not enjoying that.  Wish they'd do that more often honestly.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 26, 2022)

machski said:


> Was a great day, got a bit over 38K vert in myself.  Kusty, hope you looked around especially in the afternoon.  While none of our sustained or steep trees were really in play, 3 solid off map spots skied great once the snow softened later on.  Don't know if they ever dropped the rope on iCarumba! again, they had not as of noon.  But they did on Top Gun and Shockwave.  Even Upper Downdraft which was au natrual this season and skied great, except for the narrow exit line at the bottom.  They didn't open that yesterday oddly enough, perhaps saving it for the weekend?  Loved Excalibur ungroomed though many were not enjoying that.  Wish they'd do that more often honestly.



i dont know the place well enough to venture off map or really into the woods at all in such low tide, but i had a great day skiing what was open. the ungroomed that was available, including the troughs on the sides of groomed trails, skied super nice as the day warmed. i was eyeing the oz liftline. it looked really nice and i bet it was only closed bc of the snowmaking pipes across the top. decided not to poach it tho. i just dont know the lay of the land enough to ski like an asshole the way i do at places that feel like home

i did ski top gun and shockwave, and also downdraft with the funky exit. vortex skied pretty good. bumps on side of right stuff skied real good.


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## Andrew B. (Mar 26, 2022)

machski said:


> Was a great day, got a bit over 38K vert in myself.  Kusty, hope you looked around especially in the afternoon.  While none of our sustained or steep trees were really in play, 3 solid off map spots skied great once the snow softened later on.  Don't know if they ever dropped the rope on iCarumba! again, they had not as of noon.  But they did on Top Gun and Shockwave.  Even Upper Downdraft which was au natrual this season and skied great, except for the narrow exit line at the bottom.  They didn't open that yesterday oddly enough, perhaps saving it for the weekend?  Loved Excalibur ungroomed though many were not enjoying that.  Wish they'd do that more often honestly.


It was open early but closed by 9:30
Saw the patroller picking his way down on one ride and he must have radio’s to close it because next lift ride it was roped.


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## machski (Mar 27, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> It was open early but closed by 9:30
> Saw the patroller picking his way down on one ride and he must have radio’s to close it because next lift ride it was roped.


I figured it froze up a bit and got funky (may have snuck a woods run too early and discovered it needed more time ).  SW/TG/DD were all closed early and opened later on and skied great, but obviously the Carumba entrance was shot and the lower section would have been down to dirt with any level of traffic.

Kusty, Oz Line (Ruby Palace BTW) was closed because of the waterfall section about halfway down the upper half.  It never held snow or its usual Ice Coating very well this year and I doubt it was passable in any sense ski/riding.  You would have had to slide over exposed rock (not a steep enough ledge to jump and clear even if there is landing snow) but you cannot see that from the top.  My guess anyway.


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## JDMRoma (Mar 27, 2022)

I was there yesterday too, parked at whitecap pretty early. First time to SR for me, enjoyed the day for sure. trails were all good, coulda used
some sun tho but no complaints. Going to get back up there this week for a few days.


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## Newpylong (Mar 27, 2022)

They end up making snow on Top Gun this year? I see it was skied on the GPS. It was bare the only time I got there this year along with Upper DD. That one was a headscratcher too.


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## Andrew B. (Mar 27, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> They end up making snow on Top Gun this year? I see it was skied on the GPS. It was bare the only time I got there this year along with Upper DD. That one was a headscratcher too.


Pretty sure I remember them making on TG only once this year. There was no snowmaking on DD this year and it was the head scratcher. Wonder if something feeding that trail was broken?

No complaints from me on no SM in Agony this year. Hopefully the new lift can handle the icing better and they can go back to making snow. It’s burned out now and usually this is the time of year it skis best.


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## machski (Mar 27, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> Pretty sure I remember them making on TG only once this year. There was no snowmaking on DD this year and it was the head scratcher. Wonder if something feeding that trail was broken?
> 
> No complaints from me on no SM in Agony this year. Hopefully the new lift can handle the icing better and they can go back to making snow. It’s burned out now and usually this is the time of year it skis best.


Yup, they hit TG hard once.  DD was natural all season (as was BlackHole surprising and Quantum Leap not as surprising) and amazing it held up all weekend, the exit chute/sliver/slot was kind of fun.


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## Newpylong (Mar 27, 2022)

Thanks for the info.

Not that it's a big deal but the new booster station plans for top of Chondola has a feed for Polaris/Backside so I believe that will get repaired.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 28, 2022)

oh man i forgot to mention that a giant bull moose sprinted across the trail in front of me and then into the blind ambition woods. some people may have saw him when he emerged on the other side, but i was the only person who saw him cross excalibur. i fumbled with my phone but couldn't get it to camera mode on time. first time I've ever seen that on the slopes. seen many moose in many states around and about, but never on the mountain. flipped my car on one once.

in 2nd grade we were learning to pluralize, and the teacher gave everyone softballs - 'cat' 'dog' boy' - then she gets to me and gives me 'moose'. that bitch. I'm still traumatized about it. i guess she thought of me as smart enough to figure it out, but i couldn't figure it out and it was really embarrassing.


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## 2Planker (Mar 28, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> oh man i forgot to mention that a giant bull moose sprinted across the trail in front of me and then into the blind ambition woods. some people may have saw him when he emerged on the other side, but i was the only person who saw him cross excalibur. i fumbled with my phone but couldn't get it to camera mode on time. first time I've ever seen that on the slopes. seen many moose in many states around and about, but never on the mountain. flipped my car on one once.
> 
> in 2nd grade we were learning to pluralize, and the teacher gave everyone softballs - 'cat' 'dog' boy' - then she gets to me and gives me 'moose'. that bitch. I'm still traumatized about it. i guess she thought of me as smart enough to figure it out, but i couldn't figure it out and it was really embarrassing.


We had a patroller who hit 2 Mooses in one day on the way to The Forks.
Totaled his truck in the morning, borrowed a buddies car and totaled that one too


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## bigbob (Mar 28, 2022)

There is a reason NH has "Brake of Moose" signs on the side of the roads! You hit one and survive whatever you are driving usually ends up in the scrap yard.


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## Keelhauled (Mar 28, 2022)

A moose once bit my sister.  Really!


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## Andrew B. (Mar 28, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> oh man i forgot to mention that a giant bull moose sprinted across the trail in front of me and then into the blind ambition woods. some people may have saw him when he emerged on the other side, but i was the only person who saw him cross excalibur. i fumbled with my phone but couldn't get it to camera mode on time. first time I've ever seen that on the slopes. seen many moose in many states around and about, but never on the mountain. flipped my car on one once.
> 
> in 2nd grade we were learning to pluralize, and the teacher gave everyone softballs - 'cat' 'dog' boy' - then she gets to me and gives me 'moose'. that bitch. I'm still traumatized about it. i guess she thought of me as smart enough to figure it out, but i couldn't figure it out and it was really embarrassing.


The bears out there start coming out their dens about now


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## Newpylong (Mar 28, 2022)

Work starts tomorrow cutting out sections of pipe on Kansas that they need moved to blast. They are building a work road to help build the new lift and for future access for an eventual restaurant etc. The pipe wil be reinstalled this year as is but next year will see a 20" frost free feed to the top of Jordanin it's place. For this year the existing feed down Quantum will still be used but fed from the booster.

They started today stringing the 20" feed that will be installed up to the booster.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 29, 2022)

bigbob said:


> There is a reason NH has "Brake of Moose" signs on the side of the roads! You hit one and survive whatever you are driving usually ends up in the scrap yard.


Driving back from Mt. Washington a few years ago I nailed a moose with my car but somehow he only took a little chunk out of my bumper in front of the wheel well. Time went in slow motion before the impact and was sure I was going to die. Also almost hit a buffalo in North Dakota, they are basically invisible at night besides their eyes.


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## machski (Mar 29, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Work starts tomorrow cutting out sections of pipe on Kansas that they need moved to blast. They are building a work road to help build the new lift and for future access for an eventual restaurant etc. The pipe wil be reinstalled this year as is but next year will see a 20" frost free feed to the top of Jordanin it's place. For this year the existing feed down Quantum will still be used but fed from the booster.
> 
> They started today stringing the 20" feed that will be installed up to the booster.


So not likely we see much increase in Oz snowmaking next year with the existing Kansas pipe and feed.  Just like Barker, wait another year.....


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## Newpylong (Mar 29, 2022)

I don't know. Most of the snowmaking decisions were more about budget than capability this year. Electricity was extremely expensive and all things considered, they had plenty of time to finish getting snowmaking terrain open but chose not to. Furthermore, all of the water going over or above North Peak will be boosted going forward regardless of what feed it uses. So they'll be a leg up as far as efficiently distributing water at higher pressure and volume over there.

I think they are taking a little more measured pace after getting burned biting off more than they could chew last year. If they're going to be finishing MH, possibly adding another two trails, on top of adding the new feed, new booster station, and valve houses, that is already heavily taxing the snowmaking department. That's why they are getting outside help this year. Then you've got the lift going in... that's a lot going on. I know I would be happy if I were a SR regular at what they are doing. Except Barker not getting the new lift that is lol.


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## parahelia (Mar 29, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> The bears out there start coming out their dens about now


I've been thinking about that... We still have our bird feeders out at the condo, but it's probably time to bring them in.  We learned that the hard way in summer 2020, when I heard some noises at night, looked out the window, and saw a giant negative space with two eyes, feasting on feeder full of sunflower seeds.  This was right near Lot 6 and the access road, so not exactly in the woods.  Being a city slicker, I didn't realize that bird feeders were a no-no in the summer.  The feeder still has the claw marks to show for it...

Speaking of moose, there were also some tracks across the top of Agony on Sunday morning.  Animals on the move this time of year...


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## bigbob (Mar 31, 2022)

Will the Barker lift replacement be a totally new lift or a refurbished Jordon Quad next construction season?


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## Newpylong (Mar 31, 2022)

Refurb as of now.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 31, 2022)

I still think it's shortsighted to go with a refurbished Jordan on Barker.   Kind of a bandaid.  Outside of the Chondola, Barker probably runs more hours per year than any lift there.  Increased capacity is also needed for that lift. 

I would think a new six pack there and saving Jordan refurbished lift for Aurora or Tempest makes better sense.  Obviously it would likely cost $6M+ more to do that.


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## machski (Mar 31, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Refurb as of now.


No, it definitely will not be a refurbed Jordan.  Latest I have is a Brand New Dopp machine, but whether it is a Detach Quad or Six still undetermined.  Jordan is either getting parted out (heard that at Jordan last weekend) or it is going to Shawnee.


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## machski (Mar 31, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I still think it's shortsighted to go with a refurbished Jordan on Barker.   Kind of a bandaid.  Outside of the Chondola, Barker probably runs more hours per year than any lift there.  Increased capacity is also needed for that lift.
> 
> I would think a new six pack there and saving Jordan refurbished lift for Aurora or Tempest makes better sense.  Obviously it would likely cost $6M+ more to do that.


They are not doing a Detach on either Tempest or Aurora.  Those will be new FGQs with load carpets.  Both are too short to add another detach machine and added MX that comes with those to the fleet.  Barker is now going to be a new machine, Quad or Six yet to be decided.


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## Andrew B. (Mar 31, 2022)

machski said:


> No, it definitely will not be a refurbed Jordan.  Latest I have is a Brand New Dopp machine, but whether it is a Detach Quad or Six still undetermined.  Jordan is either getting parted out (heard that at Jordan last weekend) or it is going to Shawnee.


I am hearing the same thing but I heard they are deciding between a detach 6 or 8 but your due diligence is better than mine.
Agreed new is the right way to go for Lift 1.


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## machski (Mar 31, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> I am hearing the same thing but I heard they are deciding between a detach 6 or 8 but your due diligence is better than mine.
> Agreed new is the right way to go for Lift 1.


Absolutely zero need for an 8 at Barker, wind is not the same level of impact as it was at Jordan (and that is the only reason they went 8 IMHO).  Jordan at the base anyway has plenty of room for a large storage building for the 8 chairs, Barker not so much.  Let's hope they only go 6 there.


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## Newpylong (Mar 31, 2022)

machski said:


> They are not doing a Detach on either Tempest or Aurora.  Those will be new FGQs with load carpets.  Both are too short to add another detach machine and added MX that comes with those to the fleet.  Barker is now going to be a new machine, Quad or Six yet to be decided.



At just shy of 4,000 feet Tempest is absolutely long enough to warrant a detach and White Cap is the only base without one. It's foolish to spend more money on another NEW fixed grip for only an extra 50 fpm. 

They would be better off installing a carpet on the lift as is and waiting until they're ready to put a detach in. If they want to play in the big league, that is what the install should ultimately be. The maintenance expense is part of playing in it.


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## sull1102 (Mar 31, 2022)

There is no option other than to go detach for Tempest. I really don't see why they would not move Jordan to Tempest. It wasn't exactly abused over at Jordan with no late/early season or summer ops and plenty of wind holds to keep hours down, Tempest would be a great spot for it to go live out the rest of its life, a pretty mellow liftline and a FG back up with the other little quad next to Grand Summit. I'm imagining it being the first step in revitalizing the White Cap base, maybe a paint job on the lodge(asking for a new modern lodge is too much for $$$ for the impact it will bring), a reno to the Grand Summit(badly needed for years now), and a nice "new to you" detach to get people out of the base would be a total game changer. This would also set them up very well moving forward with their big Western Expansion plans. It's hard to see a world in which they start pushing past Jordan with new terrain, pods, and at the same time patch up the farthest away base from the new toys.


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## 2Planker (Mar 31, 2022)

machski said:


> No, it definitely will not be a refurbed Jordan.  Latest I have is a Brand New Dopp machine, but whether it is a Detach Quad or Six still undetermined.  Jordan is either getting parted out (heard that at Jordan last weekend) or it is going to Shawnee.


According to Shawnee, the Jordan was "very recently promised to be coming to Bridgton", and they are just now starting to move ahead w/ the next phase of their upgrades.   To be continued.....


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## sull1102 (Mar 31, 2022)

I wonder if the plan was to move Jordan over until they bought Shawnee and that changed their plans. Their 2030 plan mentioned installing a loading carpet on Tempest short term before replacing it with a new lift altogether in the "medium" term. I wonder if they would put a carpet in there for a year or two and then move that over to Aurora while installing a detach on Tempest.


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## thebigo (Mar 31, 2022)

This is interesting but why spruce? 



> We’ll be putting the new pipe to work right away, feeding water into the new guns that will be installed this summer on Spruce Peak. The guns will be automated, oscillating fan guns, across Risky Business, American Express, and Grand Rapids. The new guns are incredibly powerful – 25 horsepower – and the oscillation allows us to cover more ground more quickly and all on-demand.











						Snowmaking Upgrades at Sunday River for Winter 2022-23
					

The Mountain Ops crew will be hard at work this summer - learn more about the plan here.




					www.sundayriver.com


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## Edd (Mar 31, 2022)

thebigo said:


> This is interesting but why spruce?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Popular peak obviously, and open for most of the season.  AMEX is wide af at certain points and Risky isn't narrow.  Maybe they want to bury it quicker.


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## Newpylong (Mar 31, 2022)

machski said:


> No, it definitely will not be a refurbed Jordan.  Latest I have is a Brand New Dopp machine, but whether it is a Detach Quad or Six still undetermined.  Jordan is either getting parted out (heard that at Jordan last weekend) or it is going to Shawnee.



Just checked, you are right. New D-Line 6 for Barker and Dopp is doing the design now. Jordan to Shawnee.


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## thebigo (Mar 31, 2022)

Have to wonder if the two lift manufacturers are reaching capacity but there has to be some economies of scale with simultaneous detach installs at one property. 

That will be six detach installs at boyne's four eastern properties over a three year span, sharp contrast with the four vail NH properties for the Boston North skier.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 31, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Have to wonder if the two lift manufacturers are reaching capacity but there has to be some economies of scale with simultaneous detach installs at one property.
> 
> That will be six detach installs at boyne's four eastern properties over a three year span, sharp contrast with the four vail NH properties for the Boston North skier.



What are the six?

Loon 8
Jordan 8
Barker 6
Shawnee refurb 4

What am I missing?


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## Newpylong (Mar 31, 2022)

thebigo said:


> This is interesting but why spruce?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Poorly written. They mean North Peak for the new 20" pipe and guns, not Spruce. It's going from the Barker pumphouse to the top of North Peak. 26 auto Super Polecats on Risky from Lazy down 
Amex bottom 1/3 
Grand Rapids bottom 1/8.


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## urungus (Mar 31, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Have to wonder if the two lift manufacturers are reaching capacity but there has to be some economies of scale with simultaneous detach installs at one property.
> 
> That will be six detach installs at boyne's four eastern properties over a three year span, sharp contrast with the four vail NH properties for the Boston North skier.


Not really fair to compare all of New England for Boyne to only NH for Vail.
Vails VT resorts are all closer to Boston than Boynes Maine Resorts
* new Quantum six-pack at Okemo
* upgrade of Okemo Green Ridge Triple to Quad
* new Sundance six-pack at Mt Snow
* new Sunbrook Quad at Mt Snow
* new six-pack at Stowe replacing Mountain Triple
* new quad at Attitash replacing East West double double


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## thebigo (Mar 31, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> What are the six?
> 
> Loon 8
> Jordan 8
> ...



7 bros and west, assuming west happens next year. The sugarloaf chat should be entertaining when barker is announced. Two brand new shiny lifts at SR and SL may get a used quad.


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## thebigo (Mar 31, 2022)

urungus said:


> Not really fair to compare all of New England for Boyne to only NH for Vail.
> Vails VT resorts are all closer to Boston than Boynes Maine Resorts
> * new Quantum six-pack at Okemo
> * upgrade of Okemo Green Ridge Triple to Quad
> ...



VT south of K is irrelevant if you live in Eastern NH, the Merrimack Valley or southern Maine - presumably the target market for the NH properties. Off the top of my head maybe two of my last 500 ski days have been in southern vt, no way to get there and better options driving north than west.

My only point was that boyne, and by extension ikon, investments are impressive to the Boston North skier choosing a pass. Boyne of course still needs one more property in Southern NH to dominate that market.


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## machski (Mar 31, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Poorly written. They mean North Peak for the new 20" pipe and guns, not Spruce. It's going from the Barker pumphouse to the top of North Peak. 26 auto Super Polecats on Risky from Lazy down
> Amex bottom 1/3
> Grand Rapids bottom 1/8.


Well, that is where they need the added throw the Super Polecats will give them.  Noticed the Lower Risky lines on lift side up to Lazy intersection have had the hydrants removed and capped.  Guess they won't need the extra side anymore post fan install.  Hopefully lower AmEx will have better coverage wall to wall.  Well, I mean hopefully it will have wall to wall coverage.  Plus, I kind of expect them to go with Spruce for late season skiing next year as Barker will likely have to shut by April 1st if not sooner to have a new lift ready by Thanksgiving timeframe 2023.


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## machski (Mar 31, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> At just shy of 4,000 feet Tempest is absolutely long enough to warrant a detach and White Cap is the only base without one. It's foolish to spend more money on another NEW fixed grip for only an extra 50 fpm.
> 
> They would be better off installing a carpet on the lift as is and waiting until they're ready to put a detach in. If they want to play in the big league, that is what the install should ultimately be. The maintenance expense is part of playing in it.


I wouldn't complain if they went Detach for Tempest, I just don't believe they will.  Granted Spruce was replaced wile CNL was still alive and kicking, but that lift is 4600' or so and stayed FG (yes, I know the pod is smaller than what Tempest would serve and all, but you can order a HSQ with fewer carriers to trim hourly capacity.  Imperial Express at Breck is a perfect example).  DB has been adamant with me that a detach is not coming to White Cap for some time.  Of course, he was also adamant an 8 chair wasn't coming to SR either.  Hmmmmm


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## Andrew B. (Apr 1, 2022)

urungus said:


> Vails VT resorts are all closer to Boston than Boynes Maine Resorts


Do you mean “most” Vail Vt resorts?
Boston to Stowe is 199 miles
Boston to Sunday River is 177 miles
Boston to Shawnee is 140


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## Newpylong (Apr 1, 2022)

machski said:


> I wouldn't complain if they went Detach for Tempest, I just don't believe they will.  Granted Spruce was replaced wile CNL was still alive and kicking, but that lift is 4600' or so and stayed FG (yes, I know the pod is smaller than what Tempest would serve and all, but you can order a HSQ with fewer carriers to trim hourly capacity.  Imperial Express at Breck is a perfect example).  DB has been adamant with me that a detach is not coming to White Cap for some time.  Of course, he was also adamant an 8 chair wasn't coming to SR either.  Hmmmmm


I am with you, I just think it is a taylor made location for a detach quad at this point, especially with the hotel and now Shipyard increasing usage over there. Kinda blown away they wouldn't move Jordan there vs send to Shawnee. Then again, I am less than impressed with Boyne lift decisions in general. I think the triple on Spruce instead of a FGQ was idiotic to save a few pennies with the excuse of wanting to limit downhill capacity. No one is putting triples in except in limited use cases (Merrill Hill is perfect). They are now going to be putting an 8 on Jordan for essentially the same downhill capacity as Sprice (until if and when whatever build out they say is going to happen over there). 

The Kanc 8 was overkill in that location at Loon. Sugarloaf is riddled with lifts that need to be replaced, etc.  Real headscratchers...


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## xlr8r (Apr 1, 2022)

Spruce was under CNL, at that time Boyne was not spending much money on lifts at all.  Spruce remained a triple as they could reuse the loading carpet that had already been installed for the old lift, and probably for insurance replace like for like reasons.  But they ended up having to reinstall the carpet after the new lift went in anyway.

I am one who also wants Tempest replaced with a detach, it would bring more people to that under utilized side of the mountain.  Also it would be nice if they could somehow get access to lower obsession from the top of the Tempest lift when it gets replaced.  Aurora is fine as is IMO, it never has a line, the ride is short, and I really do not want any more people going through the terrible intersection where Kansas cuts across the Aurora trails.  One of Les Otten's worst development designs.

Jordan 8 does seem overkill, but I was skeptical of the Kanc 8 at Loon, and capacity wise that lift works well in that location.  The issue with the Kanc 8 is all its software issues, and lift line management.  I do not think the new Jordan 8 will be that much more wind protected than the old lift.

Sending old Jordan to Shawnee, and now replacing Barker with a new lift makes a whole lot of sense.  I had a feeling they were going to do that months ago.  New Barker will have to at least be a 6 pack.


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## machski (Apr 1, 2022)

xlr8r said:


> Spruce was under CNL, at that time Boyne was not spending much money on lifts at all.  Spruce remained a triple as they could reuse the loading carpet that had already been installed for the old lift, and probably for insurance replace like for like reasons.  But they ended up having to reinstall the carpet after the new lift went in anyway.
> 
> I am one who also wants Tempest replaced with a detach, it would bring more people to that under utilized side of the mountain.  Also it would be nice if they could somehow get access to lower obsession from the top of the Tempest lift when it gets replaced.  Aurora is fine as is IMO, it never has a line, the ride is short, and I really do not want any more people going through the terrible intersection where Kansas cuts across the Aurora trails.  One of Les Otten's worst development designs.
> 
> ...


You will be shocked then when you see the line and terminal redesign sunk into the summit on the new lift.  That alone should cut down on wind issues by drastically lowering the line after the breakover at the top of Carumba.  Add to that the weight of each unloaded chair (almost the weight of a Chevy Tahoe), will be much improved against NW winds from the Quad.  Won't eliminate every wind event from lift holds, but then those days you really wouldn't want to be up on top of Jordan trying to ski.


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## Razor (Apr 1, 2022)

Can someone explain what the top configuration of the Jordan 8 will be?  Are they carving out an unloading area?  And what is all the blasting for?  What will the entry to Kansas be like?


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## machski (Apr 1, 2022)

Razor said:


> Can someone explain what the top configuration of the Jordan 8 will be?  Are they carving out an unloading area?  And what is all the blasting for?  What will the entry to Kansas be like?


They are carving out the foundation for the top terminal.  It will be pulled downhill of the current Quad a bit, to lower the profile of the line coming over the breakover at top of Carumba.  The breakover tower there will be considerably lower, most likely necessitating a new Carumba entrance down Rogue a bit.  How much they are actually going to regrade the summit of Jordan, I'm not sure.  But I am guessing the sharp corner and steep drop into Kansas from the top will both be muted, likely with fill added from summit work.  They did a  similar but less rigorous regrade of lights out and Downdraft to the Chondi summit last fall.


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## thebigo (Apr 1, 2022)

xlr8r said:


> Jordan 8 does seem overkill, but I was skeptical of the Kanc 8 at Loon, and capacity wise that lift works well in that location.  The issue with the Kanc 8 is all its software issues, and lift line management.



Overkill and waste of money are the two comments I hear most frequently at loon RE the 8. They wanted the media buzz and summer operations. A chondola to replace the gondola would have been a better investment.

Ultimatley seven brothers may prove more impactful than the 8. Carpet loads are terrible beginner/kid lifts; hard enough to scoop kids on fixed grips while bumping and holding poles without having to navigate a carpet. A high speed quad in that location gives loon much needed progression terrain. Also helps offload the gondola crowd, move people out of the base area and improve general flow around the mountain. Hopefully they run it during the week.


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## Newpylong (Apr 2, 2022)

100%


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## machski (Apr 2, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Overkill and waste of money are the two comments I hear most frequently at loon RE the 8. They wanted the media buzz and summer operations. A chondola to replace the gondola would have been a better investment.
> 
> Ultimatley seven brothers may prove more impactful than the 8. Carpet loads are terrible beginner/kid lifts; hard enough to scoop kids on fixed grips while bumping and holding poles without having to navigate a carpet. A high speed quad in that location gives loon much needed progression terrain. Also helps offload the gondola crowd, move people out of the base area and improve general flow around the mountain. Hopefully they run it during the week.


A replacement for the Gondi is coming at the tail end of their 2030 plan.  They have to amortize the cost of the new Gondi cabins they purchased 3 years ago.  Those were not cheap.

As to the Kanc8.  Sure, they could have gone D-Line 6 as well, but opted for the publicity.  It will also be the MTB park lift starting this summer, so it will get multi-seasonal use.  Being only the second 8 in NA, good chance Dopp cut them a discount as well to try and break the market open more to adopting those.


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## Andrew B. (Apr 4, 2022)

Great weekend at SR
There is still plenty of snow in many places and there are big soft bumps (when warmed up) in places like shockwave and Top Gun if you don’t mind avoiding some bare spots.


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## machski (Apr 6, 2022)

Gorgeous day out there today!  Still a ton of trails open with near wall to wall coverage.  Plenty of snow on Spruce, Barker, Locke and White Cap to carry them thru and even beyond the 24th of they chose to.  White Cap all the way to the base should remain in play until final weekend, Heat and Starlight are deep and Obsession is in great shape too.  Even a couple of Natty runs still open today.


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## bigbob (Apr 6, 2022)

machski said:


> A replacement for the Gondi is coming at the tail end of their 2030 plan.  They have to amortize the cost of the new Gondi cabins they purchased 3 years ago.  Those were not cheap.
> 
> As to the Kanc8.  Sure, they could have gone D-Line 6 as well, but opted for the publicity.  It will also be the MTB park lift starting this summer, so it will get multi-seasonal use.  Being only the second 8 in NA, good chance Dopp cut them a discount as well to try and break the market open more to adopting those.


Boyne will have purchased 4 of these 8 packs in the last 4 years. Maybe Dopp gave them a muti purchase discount!


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## thebigo (Apr 6, 2022)

We don't have a loon thread but little sister gave another great day. Had a bunch of lousy mid winter days at loon, every spring day has been spectacular. The snow depth is beyond impressive.


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## thebigo (Apr 6, 2022)

What do people recommend for a family dinner Saturday night? Booked a long weekend at the grand with the kids, wife is coming Saturday night. Is the new place at the old Phoenix decent? Matterhorn a better choice?


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## Andrew B. (Apr 6, 2022)

thebigo said:


> What do people recommend for a family dinner Saturday night? Booked a long weekend at the grand with the kids, wife is coming Saturday night. Is the new place at the old Phoenix decent? Matterhorn a better choice?


Being kind; the new Phoenix is struggling, good beer but the food (limited menu) and service…. Meh
Matterhorn always delivers and the kids love it.
The other new place, Steam Mill Brewing on the access road is good if you’re looking for something new.


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## Smellytele (Apr 7, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> Being kind; the new Phoenix is struggling, good beer but the food (limited menu) and service…. Meh
> Matterhorn always delivers and the kids love it.
> The other new place, Steam Mill Brewing on the access road is good if you’re looking for something new.


I did not like Steam mill beer not on the same level as the definitive (old Phoenix) - But this is really about food. Did like the food at Definitive as did my wife and my buddies the 2 times I went there.


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## Andrew B. (Apr 7, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> I did not like Steam mill beer not on the same level as the definitive (old Phoenix) - But this is really about food. Did like the food at Definitive as did my wife and my buddies the 2 times I went there.


Not a fan of SM beer either, it all tastes the same and stale. they do have several outside draft options. I recommend the Saco River Pale ale. The food has always been excellent.

The beer at Difinitive is real good but the two times I wanted to have food they told me that basically most of the menu wasn’t available. The burgers were fine. 

If your taking kids out Matty-Horn is the place to go IMO. HUGE beer selection with wood fired pizza, games for the kids.


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## machski (Apr 7, 2022)

bigbob said:


> Boyne will have purchased 4 of these 8 packs in the last 4 years. Maybe Dopp gave them a muti purchase discount!


I think they may have got a discount on the first one (Ramcharger) at BS.  Doubt they got anymore discounts, but they are a Dopp exclusive company.  Outside of the 8's, they are buying a crap ton of Dopp lifts across all their resorts (or refurbishing and reusing older Dopp lifts with Dopp that they already own).


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## kbroderick (Apr 8, 2022)

thebigo said:


> What do people recommend for a family dinner Saturday night? Booked a long weekend at the grand with the kids, wife is coming Saturday night. Is the new place at the old Phoenix decent? Matterhorn a better choice?


This weekend?

Matterhorn is closing for the season on Sunday. Be aware that it may be both crowded and with some menu limitations (last weekend they ran out of gluten-free crusts, not sure if they restocked or not), and Sunday night is Mug Club members only.

I like the food at Steam Mill; your mileage may vary. Can't comment on the beer due to my digestive system's dislike for gluten.


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## thebigo (Apr 8, 2022)

Girls approved of the matterhorn.


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## parahelia (Apr 8, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Girls approved of the matterhorn.


Mine love it, too.  That arcade is an expensive babysitter, but everyone always has a good time.  Service has been efficient every time I’ve been this winter, impressive given the labor landscape.


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## Andrew B. (Apr 9, 2022)

kbroderick said:


> This weekend?
> 
> Matterhorn is closing for the season on Sunday. Be aware that it may be both crowded and with some menu limitations (last weekend they ran out of gluten-free crusts, not sure if they restocked or not), and Sunday night is Mug Club members only.
> 
> I like the food at Steam Mill; your mileage may vary. Can't comment on the beer due to my digestive system's dislike for gluten.


We have some family members with Gluten issues. Have you been to the gluten free food truck by the ski dorm? I thought it was fabulous and I don’t have Gluten issues either.


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## machski (Apr 9, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> We have some family members with Gluten issues. Have you been to the gluten free food truck by the ski dorm? I thought it was fabulous and I don’t have Gluten issues either.


If you are up this weekend, Tripps food truck is still up and open at North Peak Lodge.  Excellent food, can be a bit of a wait at lunch hour up there though


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## kbroderick (Apr 9, 2022)

Andrew B. said:


> We have some family members with Gluten issues. Have you been to the gluten free food truck by the ski dorm? I thought it was fabulous and I don’t have Gluten issues either.


I've enjoyed their food a few times, and I agree that it's decidedly tasty. Having a completely GF menu is an incredible treat with not needing to play 20 questions about food choices and sides and dressings and such.


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## thebigo (Apr 9, 2022)

The attention to detail and all the little extras provided by boyne make a difference.


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## parahelia (Apr 9, 2022)

thebigo said:


> The attention to detail and all the little extras provided by boyne make a difference.


They sure know how to deploy Eddy for maximum kid happiness.  A couple of weeks ago I was at south ridge and a bunch of mini runners (seasonal program for 3-5 year olds) were having a birthday party in a quiet corner of the upstairs after the day’s session.  A parent must have alerted management ahead of time, because Eddy made a cameo at the party.  Those little ones were absolutely star struck…. Happy kids = happy parents = winning formula.


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## Newpylong (Apr 10, 2022)

What would the Vail equivalent be? A robber? Grinch?


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 10, 2022)

So welcoming and kid friendly...


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## Newpylong (Apr 11, 2022)

Not the group I would like to see once I got up that last stair from the parking lot lol.


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## ss20 (Apr 11, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> So welcoming and kid friendly...



Still one of the most bizarre PR shoots I've ever seen...


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## machski (Apr 11, 2022)

Anyone catch the SR/Bethel spot on Places and Spaces on NECN this weekend?  Seemed to be a big feature for the mountain on the Merrill Hill development.  DB was front and center on most of the feature.  Very short commercial breaks lead me to believe SR must have pumped $$ into that episode of the show.


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## Riverveteran (Apr 11, 2022)

machski said:


> Anyone catch the SR/Bethel spot on Places and Spaces on NECN this weekend?  Seemed to be a big feature for the mountain on the Merrill Hill development.  DB was front and center on most of the feature.  Very short commercial breaks lead me to believe SR must have pumped $$ into that episode of the show.


Can see one house going up now on MH.


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## tumbler (Apr 11, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> What would the Vail equivalent be? A robber? Grinch?


The Hamburglar


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## machski (Apr 11, 2022)

Riverveteran said:


> Can see one house going up now on MH.


Yup, saw that one.  I don't think it was the family featured on the show, their home's renderings made it seem lower profile than the one under construction to blend in more to the hill.  I believe about half the first phase of lots are spoken for already.


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## bigbob (Jun 30, 2022)

Sunday River has been pretty quiet about posting construction updates, but here is the latest.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=376594317790714
			




Should a 22/23 thread be started?


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## Newpylong (Jun 30, 2022)

The other unmentioned aspect of the Kansas trail work is like a massive reduction in the amount of snow needed to cover it. If seen without snow in its previous state, you would question how it's skiable in winter with the double fall line. They just made massive amounts of snow on skier's left so that it would be level.

I am sure they will do a video on the North Peak booster station as that takes shape.


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## machski (Jul 1, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The other unmentioned aspect of the Kansas trail work is like a massive reduction in the amount of snow needed to cover it. If seen without snow in its previous state, you would question how it's skiable in winter with the double fall line. They just made massive amounts of snow on skier's left so that it would be level.
> 
> I am sure they will do a video on the North Peak booster station as that takes shape.


Although, they need to pack/grade the lower junctions off Kansas at Eureka and LP now.  The video showed a massive drop off and huge rock debris on both trails.  So they either need to earth grade that or now they will HAVE to make snow and a lot at the junction for Eureka and LP to be skiable.  Could see what Ruby's entrance looks like now, hopefully they didn't make that any worse than it already was to hold snow.


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## Newpylong (Jul 1, 2022)

Even if left alone, monumentally less snow required at those entrances vs building enough to negate the dramatic double fall on the entirety of Kansas.


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## machski (Jul 2, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Even if left alone, monumentally less snow required at those entrances vs building enough to negate the dramatic double fall on the entirety of Kansas.


Probably, but Kansas usually got blown in early season, long before they even open Jordan (as it is high, they have made snow on that often when too warm to make lower in the expansion push).  And it was a once and done normally (outside of monsoon rains or blowtorch weather).  Those intersections in Oz if left as is right now will need multiple recovers or will look like the rock garden section of ShockWave from this past season.


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## Newpylong (Jul 2, 2022)

The guy pushing the snowmaking upgrades is no dummy and doesn't really shoot from the hip. I am fairly confident there is a plan and it's going to be a net gain in efficiency. I'll ask my buddy when I see him next he's been there working on Spruce all week.


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## machski (Jul 14, 2022)

Well, I see Peter of LiftBlog has officially listed the Jordan HSQ being restrung at Shawnee next summer now on the '23 install list he tracks.  Still no confirmation on the chair type for Barker other than a new Dopp Detach lift.


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## 2Planker (Jul 14, 2022)

machski said:


> Well, I see Peter of LiftBlog has officially listed the Jordan HSQ being restrung at Shawnee next summer now on the '23 install list he tracks.  Still no confirmation on the chair type for Barker other than a new Dopp Detach lift.


Shawnee's been saying exactly that for the last 6 weeks. 
Summit Triple to be restrung to end at MidStation is the other part of the plan


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## deadheadskier (Jul 14, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Shawnee's been saying exactly that for the last 6 weeks.
> Summit Triple to be restrung to end at MidStation is the other part of the plan



Why bother keeping the triple?  Use it for the race teams on The Horn?  

I suppose it offers some wind hold security too. If the quad goes on a hold, could take the triple and ski down to Sunnyside and still have access to the summit.


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## Newpylong (Jul 14, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Shawnee's been saying exactly that for the last 6 weeks.
> Summit Triple to be restrung to end at MidStation is the other part of the plan



Sounds like an operational and maintenance expense that's unnecessary. That HSQ is going to soak up any lines they have pronto. Butt, they know their hill better than me!


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## Terry (Jul 16, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Sounds like an operational and maintenance expense that's unnecessary. That HSQ is going to soak up any lines they have pronto. Butt, they know their hill better than me!


It will give access to the Sunnyside if the hsq is down for windholds or icing.


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## BodeMiller1 (Jul 16, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The other unmentioned aspect of the Kansas trail work is like a massive reduction in the amount of snow needed to cover it. If seen without snow in its previous state, you would question how it's skiable in winter with the double fall line. They just made massive amounts of snow on skier's left so that it would be level.
> 
> I am sure they will do a video on the North Peak booster station as that takes shape.


Good point, most skiers don't realize how much snow is required to open the steep trails. With energy prices trending up...


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## machski (Jul 27, 2022)

Apparently Kansas and the top of Jordan are not the only regrading projects this summer.  Looks like lower AmEx is getting it's rock ledge blasted and the run regraded in addition to the switch to fan gun coverage.


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## machski (Aug 5, 2022)

Dana finally sets the record straight on what drove the flip to do Jordan before Barker.


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## bigbob (Aug 5, 2022)

__





						Facebook
					






					www.facebook.com


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## bigbob (Aug 5, 2022)

Hopefully CMP has enough power to run this beast at Jordon, Loon had issues. Emergency evacuation requires someone to slide down the cable to each chair to release the bar which locks down once it is pulled down.


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## Newpylong (Aug 5, 2022)

Surely Loon has a diesel APU, it's code.


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## bigbob (Aug 5, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Surely Loon has a diesel APU, it's code.


I think it has back up to the backup at Loon for Diesel power. Power issues where causing alot of stops and starts.


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## machski (Aug 5, 2022)

bigbob said:


> I think it has back up to the backup at Loon for Diesel power. Power issues where causing alot of stops and starts.


I heard that but I also heard it wasn't an issue from the Power Company, it was some electrical component they installed was too small/narrow.  I would think Boyne learned any lessons needed from the Kanc8.


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## bigbob (Aug 5, 2022)

machski said:


> I heard that but I also heard it wasn't an issue from the Power Company, it was some electrical component they installed was too small/narrow.  I would think Boyne learned any lessons needed from the Kanc8.


You would think they would have learned from the Big Sky install 2 years prior. There was also a computer software glitch that if they tried to restart the lift to soon after a start that it would shut down again.


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## machski (Aug 5, 2022)

bigbob said:


> You would think they would have learned from the Big Sky install 2 years prior. There was also a computer software glitch that if they tried to restart the lift to soon after a start that it would shut down again.


Yeah, it was kind of odd.  I don't recall hearing Ramcharger having the same issues as Kanc (or the new Swift Current which is basically the same just as a 6 vs 8 chair).  Be interesting to see how Jordan and Disciple's work this coming year (and the new 6 at Grand Targee, also a D-Line 6).


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## machski (Aug 12, 2022)

So a friend went Rogue and hiked up Jordan to the "new" summit.  Saw a bit of video, looks completely different up there, especially the entrance to Kansas.  The drop down and hard left turn are gone, it now just flows straight and consistently off the top of Jordan without much of a turn.

Also, the mountain has begun the rebuild of Barker Mountain Road (about flipping time!!.  Apparently it is a huge rebuild, including rebuilding all the primary culverts for the road.  It is closed Mon-Fri's through September to traffic.  My guess is homeowners along and off the road have access them, quite likely via trolley lane depending on where the work is centered on particular weeks.


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## machski (Sep 7, 2022)

Here's some IG photos from the company doing the earth work on Carumba for the Jordan 8 install.  You can see the complete trail destruction of what was Carumba, which has basically been converted into a west side version of the Heat.  At this point, I pray they drop snowmaking down the trail as the natural hoot that it was is gone forever.









						Fall Line Construction on Instagram: "With blasting nearly complete on the Jordan 8 lift line we are starting to clean up the ledge and dig the last couple of towers."
					

Fall Line Construction shared a post on Instagram: "With blasting nearly complete on the Jordan 8 lift line we are starting to clean up the ledge and dig the last couple of towers.". Follow their account to see 159 posts.




					www.instagram.com


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## drjeff (Sep 7, 2022)

machski said:


> Here's some IG photos from the company doing the earth work on Carumba for the Jordan 8 install.  You can see the complete trail destruction of what was Carumba, which has basically been converted into a west side version of the Heat.  At this point, I pray they drop snowmaking down the trail as the natural hoot that it was is gone forever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am guessing that they're running on time, however in the pics in that link it mentions that they're getting ready to dig the last 2 towers. Now if they're going to be done in the traditional way, once the tower site is excavated and the re-bar placed, they will pour a large base pad (for refernence the base pads that Dopp has for the new Sundance 6 Pack at Mount Snow are a solid 12 to 15 feet across and multiple feet tall from what I saw this past weekend), then that base pad concrete has to cure for typically about 3 weeks, then they pour the multiple feet tall cylindrical shaped with more re-bar as well as the large diameter anchor bolts imbedded into it that the tower will be secured to) on top of that, and then that pour has to cure for another 3 or so weeks typically before the towers can be flown in and placed on the final tower pad assembly.  Just in curing time alone, that's 6 weeks or so, which gets the construction timeline into basically early November before the towers can be flown and then the haul rope pulled and spliced and then the testing of the lift and inspection can begin.  

I get that Jordan typically doesn't come online until early December or so, but it seems like there is little room for any variables to pop up to have that lift ready to haul guests up the hill by then


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## Newpylong (Sep 7, 2022)

The pedestal is typically poured at the same time the footing itself otherwise the pad isn't really a good anchor. Depending on the formula of the concrete and the retarding agents used, it can be strong enough to drop a tower in as little as 7 days. 21 days is the absolute max.

It seems that they have made significant progress on both terminals ahead of the towers which is usually the opposite of a typical build. There likely were delays in either building the forms or the concrete for the footings which made them go that direction. You don't want holes sitting there waiting for concrete for weeks...

As for Carumba, no choice on the width unfortunately. All new liftlines are required to be wide enough where no nearby tree can fall on the haul rope + more margin.


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## Andrew B. (Sep 7, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The pedestal is typically poured at the same time the footing itself otherwise the pad isn't really a good anchor. Depending on the formula of the concrete and the retarding agents used, it can be strong enough to drop a tower in as little as 7 days. 21 days is the absolute max.
> 
> It seems that they have made significant progress on both terminals ahead of the towers which is usually the opposite of a typical build. There likely were delays in either building the forms or the concrete for the footings which made them go that direction. You don't want holes sitting there waiting for concrete for weeks...
> 
> As for Carumba, no choice on the width unfortunately. All new liftlines are required to be wide enough where no nearby tree can fall on the haul rope + more margin.


Accelerators are good stuff
We routinely hit 75% of design strength (10,000 psi) in less than 30 hours which is critical when building larger urban building cores on a schedule.


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## machski (Sep 7, 2022)

Yeah, I think they are on schedule.  They new they had a lot of earthwork to do on Carumba, including blasting out a ton of ledge (anyone recall Spruce's summit foundation releasing several summer's ago?).  Pretty sure the ideo was get the terminals done, pour and let tower foundations cure, then fly the towers/crossarms and after that, it's pulling the haul rope, splicing and you're off and running.  Betting they are targeting December 10th for a grand opening, the following Saturday as a fallback.  

For reference, here is the base circumference of the conical towers for reference:


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## Newpylong (Sep 16, 2022)

North Peak Booster station coming together


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## BodeMiller1 (Sep 16, 2022)

One of the coolest things at SR is the old Snowflake Factory building. The colors stood out and it had snowflakes on it.


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## NYDB (Sep 29, 2022)

anyone heading up for the wife carrying competition next weekend?


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## Zand (Sep 29, 2022)

Wow...that kind of sucks about the Caramba liftline but it's a necessary evil I guess. At least SR has a lot of good liftline trails but that one always had the best snow. Hopefully Wizard's Gulch is okay.


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## skef (Sep 30, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575846436314370051Presumably, mice were harmed.


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## Newpylong (Sep 30, 2022)

Yep, the yearly try to lead the masses on that we're making snow early in the morning when it's cold but don't have the air hooked up...


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## drjeff (Sep 30, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Yep, the yearly try to lead the masses on that we're making snow early in the morning when it's cold but don't have the air hooked up...



Well atleast the lawn there got watered this morning! 

And that soft lighting around sunrise and pics from a bit of a distance sure helps the marketing department sell the illusion to the masses that they're actually making snow.

Coincidentally, I noticed a picture on a FB snowamkers group that appeared to be from this morning that some of the folks at Wildcat were watering the lawn near the queue area for the quad with a Polecat ealier today


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## IceEidolon (Sep 30, 2022)

I saw that polecat running too. I still haven't seen anything stuck yet but it's trending that way.

How hard could Wildcat fight for an early opening if management was fully on board and they had a full, trained up crew to work with? Not that I think that's likely.


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## kbroderick (Sep 30, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Yep, the yearly try to lead the masses on that we're making snow early in the morning when it's cold but don't have the air hooked up...


Can they get that level of spread out of the towers without air turned on?

(I thought that was why they'd used fan guns in the recent past)


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## Newpylong (Sep 30, 2022)

Yes, air does little to change the throw on an internal mixing/Low-E gun, especially when you're running at very high pressure like they do at SR. The water pressure does most of the work.


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## Vortex (Oct 4, 2022)

I will be up for the Fall fest weekend. be nice to see some folks we have not seen since May.


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## Dickc (Oct 6, 2022)

New Facebook video of the Jordan 8


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## machski (Nov 7, 2022)

The new gun line coming into Spruce triple off AmEx/Grand Rapids.


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## skef (Nov 12, 2022)

Three years ago this weekend. The beforetimes.


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## machski (Nov 12, 2022)

Uphillers rejoice, the mounatin is now officially open to you at 530am daily!

Uphill Access Policy​
Sunday River allows skinning, snowshoeing, hiking, and other types of uphill travel in winter. For the safety of everyone on the mountain, we ask that anyone participating in these activities adhere to the following guidelines. Failure to adhere to these guidelines jeopardizes uphill access for everyone. All uphill travel is done at each individual's own risk.
*Ground Rules*

A valid season pass or lift ticket is required for all access to the mountain, including uphill travel. Uphill access is included with a valid lift ticket for that day pass, season pass, or Ikon pass. If you do not have a pass or lift ticket, uphill travel tickets are $15 and available at lift ticket windows during normal operating hours.
The mountain is open for uphill travel at 5:30AM every day. Uphill travel will be closed to the public at 4PM unless otherwise specified in the mountain and trail report.
You may only travel on terrain that is designated as open on the trail report. The trail report can be found online or on the Sunday River App. Pre- and post-season access is not permitted.
All uphill travel must take place along the trail edge.  Groups traveling uphill should form single file lines, leaving as much trail width as possible available for downhill skiing.  Under no circumstances should uphill groups be more than two skiers wide.
Uphill travel is not allowed on Ecstasy, Grand Rapids, and Kansas during operating hours, however, Kansas is allowed when lifts 14 (Jordan 8) and 15 (Oz Quad) are closed due to wind.
Sledding is not permitted on any part of the mountain at any time.
Terrain parks are closed during non-operational hours.
No dogs are allowed on the mountain during operating hours (M-F 9:00AM-4:30PM; Sat/Sun 8:00AM-4:30PM unless otherwise posted in the Mountain Report), except service dogs, which must be on a leash. For your dog’s safety, they must be leashed or have reliable recall under voice command.
No camping is allowed on the mountain at any time.
Never load a lift outside of normal operating hours, unattended lifts, or lifts with posted “closed” signs.
Ski Patrol reserves the right to close the mountain to uphill travel at any time due to weather, snow conditions, or other factors that may affect skier safety.
Failure to abide by these rules may result in loss of uphill travel privileges.
*Safety around Grooming Operations*

Uphill skiers should wear bright clothing with reflectors and a headlamp when traveling uphill outside of normal operating times. This will increase your visibility on the slopes to equipment operators and Mountain Operations personnel. Avoid using earbuds so you can hear approaching machinery.
Winch cat operation happens daily and poses the threat of serious injury or death to persons who come into contact with the cable. The cable may be hard to detect as it can oscillate between being buried in the snow and being visible as load is applied to it by the groomer which can be up to 3000 feet away. Winch cat operators will use flashing lights at the top and bottom of slopes with active winch cat operations in progress. Please do not travel up or down trails marked by flashing lights.
If you encounter a grooming machine on the slopes, yield and keep your distance. If you are wearing a headlamp, shine it toward the operator to make your presence known. Grooming machines have significant blind spots and may not see you. If you are attempting to pass a grooming machine while skiing down, give the grooming machine a wide berth, make eye contact with the operator, and ski on the opposite side of the trail whenever possible.
*Safety around Snowmaking Operations and Snowmobiles*

Snowmaking operations may be present at any time on any trail. For your safety, skiing around active snowmaking operations outside of normal operating hours is prohibited and may result in the loss of uphill privileges.
Skis and snowboards have sharp edges that are capable of cutting high-pressure hoses. For your safety, do not ski close to or over snowmaking hoses. Hoses may be buried below the surface of fresh snow.
During operating hours, avoid uphill travel in Snowmobile lanes which are marked with orange sticks of bamboo and rope on the sides of the following trails: Lower Downdraft/Lights Out, Escapade, and Roadrunner.
Snowmobiles may be present on the mountain at any time. When traveling uphill, yield to uphill snowmobile traffic. Keep an ear out, pull over to the side of the trail, and make eye contact with the operator. Give snowmobiles a wide berth when traveling downhill.
*Uphill Routes*
Sunday River does not confine uphill travel to specified routes, however we do strongly recommend the following routes for your safety. Other routes may have hazardous operations, blind spots to downhill traffic, or terrain that make them unsuitable for uphill travel.
From White Cap Basin

To White Cap Top – Starlight, Heats On, Jibe, Heats Off, Salvation
To Little White Cap Top - Starlight
From Barker Basin

To Barker Top - Lower Lazy River, Lazy River
To Locke Top – Lower Lazy River, Lazy River, down Jungle Road, up Goat Path
From South Ridge Basin

To South Ridge Top – Lower Lazy River or Ridge Run
To North Peak Top – Ridge run, Dream Maker, Second Mile
To Spruce Top – Ridge Run, Dream Maker, Second Mile, Lights Out, Aludra, Sirius
To Aurora Top – Ridge Run, Dream Maker, Second Mile, Lights Out, Aludra, Borealis
From Jordan Basin

Lollapalooza
_Note: _Uphill travel on Kansas in prohibited during operating hours unless lifts 14 and 15 are closed. Skiers must still obey all posted signs and warnings.
To contact ski patrol to report an injury or request assistance during resort operating hours call *207-824-5350*. Ski patrol is not available during non-operating hours. Be aware that on-mountain cell phone service is limited in certain areas


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## machski (Nov 14, 2022)

SR is currently up to T2, Upper Punch, Punch, Lower Punch, Right Stuff, Ecstacy, Jungle Road, and Cascades for current snowmaking.  Should be an opening by tomorrow or Wednesday the latest, probably starting mid station but likely TTB by late Wednesday, Thursday the latest if the forecast pans out.


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## Newpylong (Nov 14, 2022)

Yeah, that system is gonna drop the hammer for sure.


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## machski (Nov 16, 2022)

Passholders season starts tomorrow, 9am.


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## thebigo (Nov 16, 2022)

all good news - download shouldnt be that bad on a thursday. got the bosses permission for the nine year to play hookie, doubt she will be able to sleep tonight.

Hoping loon gets open Friday, not sure I have three straight days of 4.5 hour roundtrip drives in me. Bronze sounded like a good idea in the spring, wishing I had gone silver now.


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## Vortex (Nov 16, 2022)

I went and walked around Baker and Locke base a bit ago. 31F and mixed precipitation.  Guns looked off, very humid, but raw.   Snow is all the way to Barker lift, but real thin down low.  If people ski top to bottom, even though not saying it will be open, Punch will be the way.  Cacases in not close to being ready. Word, I got was wet and heavy but well covered mid station and above.  I only spoke to one person who hiked to make turns.  Sounds like getting it plowed out would help.   Let's see if temps drop enough tonight.


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## machski (Nov 16, 2022)

If Vortex's report tells me anything on Loon, its that they aren't close to an opening.  The only cam they have at seven bros shows less snow on the ground than the base cam at Whte Cap and they got into the mid 30's today at Loon.  Maybe Saturday for them, I would think Friday would be a longshot unless thehumidity and temp both dive tonight.  Hard to say though as they are not going on seven bros early this year due mostly to the chair install still ongoing there.  So no cam to take a peak with.


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## machski (Nov 16, 2022)

Sugarloaf just announced a Friday open this week.


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## thebigo (Nov 16, 2022)

Loon was selling tickets for thursday as of about an hour ago. Now showing tickets for saturday.


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## 2Planker (Nov 16, 2022)

We're earning our turns Thurs.
Cat opens Fri


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## thebigo (Nov 17, 2022)




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## machski (Nov 17, 2022)

That looks solid bigo!!  How is Upper Punch?


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## thebigo (Nov 17, 2022)

machski said:


> That looks solid bigo!!  How is Upper Punch?


Didnt make it to punch this morning. Daughters new race boots had her in tears. Fortunately her fitter was at thoma, he ground them on the spot and we are headed back out. That is why you use a reputable local shop. 

Will post some more pictures this afternoon.


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## Newpylong (Nov 17, 2022)

Looks great.


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## chuckstah (Nov 17, 2022)

machski said:


> That looks solid bigo!!  How is Upper Punch?


Friend sent this of T2 said it's great, but said  Punch is a mixed bag and not nearly as good.


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## Vortex (Nov 17, 2022)

Funny, most I heard did not like Punch as much either. I liked it better than T2.  

You could take lower punch to the bottom, but it was early season wild. What you Rember from years past, is what you got once you hit the water bars, better than downloading, but Rock skis needed. Tonight, will be cold enough to really help that out with snowmaking.


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## thebigo (Nov 17, 2022)

Good afternoon after we got the boots ground. Massive amount of guns running: T2, jungle road, lower punch, right stuff plus fans on spruce and the fan at the bottom of locke. T2 started to form massive irregular bumps in the afternoon, good time to get the knees working - found it much better than punch.


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## thebigo (Nov 18, 2022)

T2 got turned on overnight, skiing good this morning, better than upper punch. Lower punch filling in, hit some rocks, only the water bar under barker is open. I don't know capacities but feels like they are running far more simultaneous guns than last year.


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## Vortex (Nov 18, 2022)

Snow making improvements do appear to be making a difference.   T2 was much better than punch.  The guns on Punch were wet.  lower Punch was completely different than yesterday.  100% better.  Talking to few last night, sounds like getting South Ridge open on Wednesday is the goal.  Goggle and full South ridge operations for next Friday.  That is kind of the Normal plan, but they are a few weeks behind.


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## Newpylong (Nov 18, 2022)

No snowmaking changes to speak of on anything east or west of Spruce this year, but they can run a ton on Barker, Locke and WC from the past few year's work regardless. Aurora, Oz and Jordan will follow suit and be night and day next year.

One after cooler was repaired which will bring air temps down a touch but not something really noticeable by the end user.


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## Vortex (Nov 18, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> No snowmaking changes to speak of on anything east or west of Spruce this year, but they can run a ton on Barker, Locke and WC from the past few year's work regardless. Aurora, Oz and Jordan will follow suit and be night and day next year.
> 
> One after cooler was repaired which will bring air temps down a touch but not something really noticeable by the end user.


Spruce with the New guns look amazing. That can't be far from coming into the mix.
 Usually, Amex Grand rapids, lower Downdraft and Tourist trap are the next step after Barker.
 Barker, Locke and Spruce at the same time are all getting hammered. My guess is Cascades is Sunday.  We get Barker Lift tomorrow, with XTC and Right stuff.  We can count Jim's whim and Jungle Road, but just traverses.  Edit, not sure if we are just getting blow over on lower downdraft.


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## Newpylong (Nov 18, 2022)

They basically went from having the 3 small uplines on Spruce to replacing the Downdraft line and making it a larger (upline) feeding the others as downlines. They can put a ton of water up there now.

When you take a wholistic look at water, air, mileage and efficiency in Northeastern US snowmaking systems, they're right there at the top of the pack now.


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## machski (Nov 18, 2022)

I would think running the usual runs on Locke/Barker and being able to add in Spruce is thanks to that new feed up Spruce to the Boost station at top of Chondi.  That amount of water at one time may be new, but the Locke/Barker compliment at once has been that way for several seasons now.  Granted with the older infrastructure up from the river, that occasionally causes them to fall short early season.  Now, with the solid feed up from the river plus the ever growing ability to disperse more water at once across the hill, we reap the rewards.  And the air system was built for the old SR7 airhogs, so more than robust for many more impulse stocks at once.  And then the fans not even needing hill air.  It's really how much water can they pump at once now.


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## Newpylong (Nov 18, 2022)

Shouldn't have made a difference, each of the 3 had their own separate feeds direct from the Snowflake factory previously. But if they're running MORE on Spruce than they were previously then I would say yes, that is due to the feedline diameter increase.


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## thebigo (Nov 23, 2022)

Sunday river delivered a great first day out for the five year old. Luckiest man alive.**


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## thebigo (Nov 25, 2022)

Got in something close to a dozen runs before responsibility called. Weather far outpreformed the forecast, snowed all morning with a brief change to sleet then back to snow. Never actually progressed beyond a wintry mix ro rain.


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## Newpylong (Nov 28, 2022)

new map:  https://www.sundayriver.com/documents/Sunday River/Maps/SR_TrailMap2022_2023_upload.pdf


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## thebigo (Nov 28, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> new map:  https://www.sundayriver.com/documents/Sunday River/Maps/SR_TrailMap2022_2023_upload.pdf


Been wondering for some time how they were going to squeeze merril in there. The front side / back side thing is silly but not an easy place to show on a map. 

Other topic: appears barker is broken again, skied SR 8 days this year, not sure any of them saw a full day of service on barker. 

For a place that does so much right, it is right time for an official announcement on replacement.


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## machski (Nov 28, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> new map:  https://www.sundayriver.com/documents/Sunday River/Maps/SR_TrailMap2022_2023_upload.pdf


Anyone else notice on the new map that none of the MH trails are not gagged with the snowmaking *.  They all have it, including Second Thoughts.  Odd.


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## machski (Nov 28, 2022)

thebigo said:


> Been wondering for some time how they were going to squeeze merril in there. The front side / back side thing is silly but not an easy place to show on a map.
> 
> Other topic: appears barker is broken again, skied SR 8 days this year, not sure any of them saw a full day of service on barker.
> 
> For a place that does so much right, it is right time for an official announcement on replacement.


I would agree.  If they were delaying an announcement to give Loon some space to announce the next Phase of South first, that is accomplished.


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## BodeMiller1 (Nov 28, 2022)

It would be nice if everyone could give the snow makers a rest this year. A nice snowy winter would do a lot to boost crowds and drop costs. 

More snow less Vail pricing. 

Anyone know in an average winter what costs more? Fuel for grooming or snowmaking.


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## Newpylong (Nov 28, 2022)

machski said:


> Anyone else notice on the new map that none of the MH trails are not gagged with the snowmaking *.  They all have it, including Second Thoughts.  Odd.


From what I was told, the only possible trail that may have operable snowmaking currently is "Trail 1", I guess that would be Double Refraction? The other ones definitely aren't done.

Regardless, I probably woulda put the symbol on them all so as to not have to redo the map again in the near future. Of course no one else probably pays as close attention as us nerds.


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## kbroderick (Nov 28, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> From what I was told, the only possible trail that may have operable snowmaking currently is "Trail 1", I guess that would be Double Refraction? The other ones definitely aren't done.
> 
> Regardless, I probably woulda put the symbol on them all so as to not have to redo the map again in the near future. Of course no one else probably pays as close attention as us nerds.



I'd be willing to wager that editing the labels is fairly easy, so it only becomes an issue of needing to reprint, which is hopefully necessary anyhow for a new lift on Barker.


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## powderseeker (Nov 29, 2022)

I heard from an electrician I tried to hire in the area (who couldn't do the work for us because he is working on lift projects at Sunday River) that Barker will be getting the same lift as Jordan. He thought that it would be precisely the same type of lift (an 8-seater), but it's possible they would get a 6-seater D-line which would have similar electronics. I certainly want heated seats and bubbles!

I hope we get an announcement soon. Maybe they are waiting for the Jordan 8 to get up and running and work out any opening issues, so the news is all positive from the announcement onwards.


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## Newpylong (Nov 29, 2022)

From a downhill capacity issue, I think either would be appropriate. What say the SR regulars?

Probably gonna need to make snow on Agony more either way IMHO. Outta be wider by then...


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## thebigo (Nov 29, 2022)

Those that are more regular than me can confirm but it appears they did some recent cutting on the lift riders right of agony, small trees not just brush. Personally I think a six is a better fit.

Edit - given 7 bros is still not ready, would think they need to get an early start in the spring. Guess they could do April on locke? Some combination of north and spruce?


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## Vortex (Nov 29, 2022)

I think if I recall we got the Jordan chair first because that style was available, and it fit in Jordan better. I thought the Barker chair option would be another year, due to what they had to offer.  If we get the same thing at Barker things might have changed,  Machski an probably clarify and say it better.  Barker has the longest lines.  My guess is Barker, can handle more Skiers, but only when most of the trails and woods are open.  I avoid barker Whenever possible.


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## kbroderick (Nov 29, 2022)

Vortex said:


> I think if I recall we got the Jordan chair first because that style was available, and it fit in Jordan better. I thought the Barker chair option would be another year, due to what they had to offer.  If we get the same thing at Barker things might have changed,  Machski an probably clarify and say it better.  Barker has the longest lines.  My guess is Barker, can handle more Skiers, but only when most of the trails and woods are open.  I avoid barker Whenever possible.


I've rarely, if ever, seen trails truly packed on Barker once all the major trails are open (ie not necessarily including natural snow, trees, and such); unless there's some really good traffic direction at the bottom, I think between the reduced carrier count for a six or eight-pack and chairs not getting full because people ran out of fingers to count on, we'd be okay.

The plan to do Jordan first had a lot to do with how many days that lift missed due to wind and the impact that had on guest experience, especially those staying at the Jordan Grand; there was also a plan to refurbish the Jordan quad (which, despite it's age, had relatively low operational hours) and install it at Barker. That's now out the window and the refurbished lift is slated to go to another Boyne property.


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## WoodCore (Nov 29, 2022)

Assuming the Jordan8 is done or close too, will SR push towards Jordan at the expense of other terrain to showcase the shiny new toy or stick to the standard plan?


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## Vortex (Nov 30, 2022)

They made snow there last week when it was Warm elsewhere to get a good start, nothing was on the snow report, but I talked with a few snowmakers and they were going at it strong. Last year they made snow on just parts of Northern lights and tied in cyclone early to State Fair.  I think the focus has always been to get Jordan open as early as possible, but Aurora seems to be getting tied in after Jordan instead of before.


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## Newpylong (Nov 30, 2022)

I was told they've been working on Aurora and Jordan up high this week as the temps have been higher.

The pipe on Kansas/NL is still being tied in. It had to be moved when they blasted and widened the trail. It will have to be replaced next year because it's a real mess from being moved around. It will get them through this year though.


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## drjeff (Nov 30, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I was told they've been working on Aurora and Jordan up high this week as the temps have been higher.
> 
> The pipe on Kansas/NL is still being tied in. It had to be moved when they blasted and widened the trail. It will have to be replaced next year because it's a real mess from being moved around. It will get them through this year though.


I'm guessing that Brendan Ryan already has a plan (or 5) for this Summer and that stretch of pipe!


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## Newpylong (Nov 30, 2022)

Knowing him likely plans for the upcoming summer and 5 more. He certainly keeps them busy.


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## kbroderick (Nov 30, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> It will get them through this year though.


I think I've heard that one before.


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## doublediamond (Nov 30, 2022)

Back in the summer, Fall Line Construction had video of new pipe being dragged. Any clue which trails?


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## machski (Dec 1, 2022)

They have definitely trimmed back Agony skier's left on a lot of the trail.  It has needed it for several years as tree growth has given snowmaking fits on that side.  This is more than that though, given the trim goes all the way to the snowmaking lines on most of it.  Definitely not complete for a lift install, the part needing the most is  the upper part after TG splits off and they have yet to touch that.

As to a D line 6 or 8, the original plan most of us had heard was D6 at both locations.  The big rumor was a planned tag team install of both the same summer.  They obviously passed on that, likely given the amount of earth work the plan shifted to with Jordan.  They could go 8 at Barker, but I'm not sure I want to see the top of Agony opened up that much from the tree perspective that will be needed.  How much narrower they can go on the clearance cut for a 6 I don't know.  The terrain can certainly handle added traffic, especially if they make TG and Agony more routinely.  I would expect they would add fixed mount guns on Top Gun with a lift install for precisely this.  Noticed they changed most of Jungle Road and Sunday Punch to Klik Hydrants.  For Punch, likely means we won't see the early season guns pulled out anymore as the Kliks cannot allow for that (though they old hydrants remain on the lines for now) Could be the start to more to more efficient ops on Barker for a bigger chair.  The capacity increase would be felt more at Barker too, given the current Quad only spins at 700FPM or so.


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## bigbob (Dec 1, 2022)

I thought the original plan or rumor for barker was to refurbish the Jorden Quad and install it for Barker. Now parts of that chair are stored at Pleasant Mnt and no offical word weather barker would be a 6 or 8 but would be a new build according to the rumor mill. Loon has announced South Peak expansion so far and Lone Peak at Big Sky will get a new gondola next summer. I think some foundation work/excavation has already been completed for Big Sky.


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## Newpylong (Dec 1, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> Back in the summer, Fall Line Construction had video of new pipe being dragged. Any clue which trails?



New 24" feed from Snowflake factory to the booster station atop North Peak. Downdraft from the new Booster to the top of Spuce was replaced (enlarged) as a new upline. New 20" feed buried under Kanas/NL to the top of Jordan which will feed that side next year.

The one time I rode Barker last year I did notice how encroaching the trees were getting, and the snowmaking lines were pretty deep in the woods on Agony. Judging by the picture in this thread from last week I'd say they still have a lot of work to do cutting back for a new 6 or 8 on there.


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## Andrew B. (Dec 1, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> From a downhill capacity issue, I think either would be appropriate. What say the SR regulars?
> 
> Probably gonna need to make snow on Agony more either way IMHO. Outta be wider by then...


They did some widening on the skiers left side this year left the debris there which I hope get covered over.


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## bigbob (Dec 1, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> New 24" feed from Snowflake factory to the booster station atop North Peak. Downdraft from the new Booster to the top of Spuce was replaced (enlarged) as a new upline. New 20" feed buried under Kanas/NL to the top of Jordan which will feed that side next year.
> 
> The one time I rode Barker last year I did notice how encroaching the trees were getting, and the snowmaking lines were pretty deep in the woods on Agony. Judging by the picture in this thread from last week I'd say they still have a lot of work to do cutting back for a new 6 or 8 on there.


How many GPM can a 24" pipe handle?


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## BodeMiller1 (Dec 1, 2022)

bigbob said:


> How many GPM can a 24" pipe handle?


It all depends. In snowmaking,  How much horse power do the pumps have, grade, vertical (there's probably a rise over run equation) leaks, spray pattern, is the wind coming into the gun / fan. Butt lets assume the system is right.

I have no idea. Hopefully enough.... Meow

Hope this helps.


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## Newpylong (Dec 1, 2022)

bigbob said:


> How many GPM can a 24" pipe handle?



~13,000 GPM at design velocity, excluding head and friction loss.


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## Vortex (Dec 1, 2022)

Guns on all over the place to resurface and get Little white cap area going.  South ridge had guns on, but marginal temps. MM was online.  grooming was well done. I was surprised how well they brought it back. Was not spectacular, but mush better than expected.


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## machski (Dec 1, 2022)

bigbob said:


> I thought the original plan or rumor for barker was to refurbish the Jorden Quad and install it for Barker. Now parts of that chair are stored at Pleasant Mnt and no offical word weather barker would be a 6 or 8 but would be a new build according to the rumor mill. Loon has announced South Peak expansion so far and Lone Peak at Big Sky will get a new gondola next summer. I think some foundation work/excavation has already been completed for Big Sky.


That was the "original" formally published plan, which was a pivot from what many of us had be told was the plan, with Barker the prioritized upgrade.  That plan was flipped by one Stephen Kircher, to build as bullet (wind) proof as possible a new Jordan.  Given the cost of that lift (D8) and all the grading work done to reshape the summit and liftline, they seemed to pivot off a new Barker to a refurbed lift.  I know they took a lot of flak from many of the locals on that call.  Then thankfully I believe Dopp deemed Jordan wouldn't be a good candidate for a Barker replacement even fully refurbed.  So they pivoted again.  Personally, I feel Barker deserves something like Jordan is getting, though a 6 version would be fine.

Oh, did mention I saw a survey crew working snow side and parking lot side of Barker last week?  Totally not in the area of the lift base, soooo........


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## BodeMiller1 (Dec 2, 2022)

^^^
Barker is a nice peak, Down Draft is one of my favorites.


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## bigbob (Dec 2, 2022)

machski said:


> That was the "original" formally published plan, which was a pivot from what many of us had be told was the plan, with Barker the prioritized upgrade.  That plan was flipped by one Stephen Kircher, to build as bullet (wind) proof as possible a new Jordan.  Given the cost of that lift (D8) and all the grading work done to reshape the summit and liftline, they seemed to pivot off a new Barker to a refurbed lift.  I know they took a lot of flak from many of the locals on that call.  Then thankfully I believe Dopp deemed Jordan wouldn't be a good candidate for a Barker replacement even fully refurbed.  So they pivoted again.  Personally, I feel Barker deserves something like Jordan is getting, though a 6 version would be fine.
> 
> Oh, did mention I saw a survey crew working snow side and parking lot side of Barker last week?  Totally not in the area of the lift base, soooo........



And at some point in time a summit resturant will be built at the top of jordan. Much needed at the far end of the resort!


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## machski (Dec 3, 2022)

bigbob said:


> And at some point in time a summit resturant will be built at the top of jordan. Much needed at the far end of the resort!


Yup, but I have heard that is several years off.  They have other wants before they get to that and they have to figure out utilities to the summit too.  One reason why Jordan base doesn't even have toilets (good thing they did build a hotel out there).


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## Newpylong (Dec 3, 2022)

The reason why Kansas was regarded / widened while they were burying the feed line was in preparation for said summit restaurant.


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## machski (Dec 8, 2022)

I cannot guarantee this, but IMHO terrain expansion should be back in play Saturday.  Hiked over to camp tonight from Brookside, Roadrunner and Starlight were cover fairly well and groomed out.  Would expect lower White Cap and White Cap Quad to be in play Saturday on with Jibe/Heats On/Starlight and Road Runner in play, with a tongue to the Summit Hotel.  Tempest has a ways to go yet


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## machski (Dec 10, 2022)

Quite certain this will be another season with no snowmaking on Agony.  Noticed yesterday they removed the air hydrants and plugged the mounts.  The fans are nice on Spruce except for the very bottle of Risky.  Afraid they will struggle to get wide coverage on the bottom chute by the Triple base without fans below the Lower Lazy River entrance and no skier's right gun line usage.  It was sketch on that chute yesterday.


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## Edd (Dec 10, 2022)

bigbob said:


> And at some point in time a summit resturant will be built at the top of jordan. Much needed at the far end of the resort!


I wasn’t aware of this. Is Sliders too overwhelmed on weekends?


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## bigbob (Dec 10, 2022)

Opening of the 8 is delayed, latest video. Date TBD.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1558812304554658


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## Andrew B. (Dec 11, 2022)

Edd said:


> I wasn’t aware of this. Is Sliders too overwhelmed on weekends?


I don’t think sliders has much to do with it. If anything it’s more likely the success and overcrowded space of mountain room. Plus the north peak lodge is a bit worn.
A restaurant on top of Jordan would give them a summit restaurant with a view of Mount Washington along with a better wedding venue.
It also goes with the idea of the opening up more terrain west of Jordan.


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## bigbob (Dec 11, 2022)

Edd said:


> I wasn’t aware of this. Is Sliders too overwhelmed on weekends?


I always considered Sliders to be part of the Jordon Grand and not part of the mountain. I have never considered eating there. Some sort of lodge is needed at the west end and with the success of the new Killington Peak lodge I think a Jordon Peak Lodge would do well and is much needed.


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## Edd (Dec 11, 2022)

Funny, I used to hit Sliders regularly because it was more mellow than the rest with a decent menu. I can see the wedding venue angle though, the views from the top of Jordan are great.


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## Andrew B. (Dec 11, 2022)

Sliders deck in the spring is a great place to stop for lunch.
The menu is kind of “meh” since they went to Italian.


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## machski (Dec 11, 2022)

Edd said:


> I wasn’t aware of this. Is Sliders too overwhelmed on weekends?


Yes, but multiple food trucks staged in the wedding meadow just below the Jordan Hotel this year should provide a few more options out that way.  I believe the Jordan summit restaurant to be several years out yet.


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## machski (Dec 11, 2022)

bigbob said:


> Opening of the 8 is delayed, latest video. Date TBD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At least it has nothing to do with the lift itself and everything to do with the weather and not getting the type of coverage in by next weekend they wanted out there for grand opening.  Must have just made the call, they haven't even updated the first chair raffle page yet.  If only the new feedline had been finished.....


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## bigbob (Dec 11, 2022)

machski said:


> At least it has nothing to do with the lift itself and everything to do with the weather and not getting the type of coverage in by next weekend they wanted out there for grand opening.  Must have just made the call, they haven't even updated the first chair raffle page yet.  If only the new feedline had been finished.....


It sounds like they feel there is currently not enough terrain open or will be open by next weekend at Jordon. Agree on having the new feed line complete would make it faster to open new terrain over there. Boyne is making investments where the customer will notice a difference when out on the mountain, and this holds true for the Loaf and Loon also.


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## Newpylong (Dec 11, 2022)

It would have but there's only so much you can do in one off-season and they learned from biting off too much the past two. The in house crews were full bore on the Jordan 8 leaving their contractors to do all the snowmaking. The last weld on Kansas wasn't finished until last week. They worked 12 hour days 6 days a week all summer into fall. Not a shot the feed could have been done. Also, there aren't enough pumps in the new Booster Station. There were only two installed to handle Spruce for this year.


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## machski (Dec 11, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> It would have but there's only so much you can do in one off-season and they learned from biting off too much the past two. The in house crews were full bore on the Jordan 8 leaving their contractors to do all the snowmaking. The last weld on Kansas wasn't finished until last week. They worked 12 hour days 6 days a week all summer into fall. Not a shot the feed could have been done. Also, there aren't enough pumps in the new Booster Station. There were only two installed to handle Spruce for this year.


Yeah, nature hasn't helped either.  From what I could see on the Skiesta Cam today, they were making snow heavily into Aurora and just Lolla over in Jordan.  They probably didn't want to skip over Aurora either (as in, just make the crossing of Aludra to Cyclone and Kansas to Lights Out) prior to the Jordan opening in hopes of having Aurora going too to ease the load.  Otherwise everyone will just bolt into Jordan to check this new marvel out first thing (though many will jump right thru without skiing Aurora when it opens)


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## Riverveteran (Dec 13, 2022)

Big challenge for me with Sliders is being able to race to the bottom fast enough after eating there to find a bathroom, new Jordan chair should help.


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## machski (Dec 21, 2022)

New Grand Opening for Jordan 8 is Monday 12/26 at 930am.  Enough time for those that want to make their way over from WC/Barker/SR.  Who knows if you'll need ice skates or not though.


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