# Riders that you don't want in your Group



## skibum1321 (Aug 10, 2007)

So this is a bit of a rant about some particular group riders. I was on the Thursday night fitness ride last night, which is a fairly aggressive group ride but is not race training. For reference, I was in the 20 mph group. There were a couple of people in my group that would peel off the front before taking a pull. They just sat in the middle of the paceline while everyone else did all of the work. There was also another rider who would just attack the paceline at 25mph and these other 2 people would just catch onto his wheel. They would fall back to the group as soon as he peeled to the back since neither of them would pull. The group fell apart in the last 5 miles, as the one guy attacked and the others kept on his wheel. Others fell off the back.

Does anyone else get really annoyed when people won't take their turn pulling the group? It must be nice to be a freeloader and never work for the group. It's especially annoying when you get dropped from the group after pulling more than your fair share.


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## ckofer (Aug 13, 2007)

Here's my take on how to handle it. If your group has any written communication medium (email list or whatever), craft a kind note that shares how a well-run group ride should work. At the least speak up before the ride. Try to be constructive but make sure the "offenders" understand why it's lousy for the others. I used to mountain bike with a group that believed that nobody gets dropped. Eventually we broke into subgroups that had the same philosophy. 

Basically, you've got to spell out your expectations, even if you think it's obvious.


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## Bumpsis (Aug 14, 2007)

It sounds like a disfunctional group. Perhaps the two pace line "surfers" were not really up to snuff and could only just hang, not having the strenght to take their turn at a pull. I suppose I'd tolerate that. You never are going to get faster until you push yourself. Maybe they just over reached by joining a 20 mph pace line.

I think that the hot shots who rush the pace are probably more desctructive to the pace line, provoking others to attack. Maybe rules should be set ahead of the ride, if it is important for everyone in the group to form an effective pace line.


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## skibum1321 (Aug 14, 2007)

Bumpsis said:


> It sounds like a disfunctional group. Perhaps the two pace line "surfers" were not really up to snuff and could only just hang, not having the strenght to take their turn at a pull. I suppose I'd tolerate that. You never are going to get faster until you push yourself. Maybe they just over reached by joining a 20 mph pace line.
> 
> I think that the hot shots who rush the pace are probably more desctructive to the pace line, provoking others to attack. Maybe rules should be set ahead of the ride, if it is important for everyone in the group to form an effective pace line.



You are definitely right that it was a pretty dysfunctional paceline. It really depends on the week as to how good of a group you get. There are usually in the range of 80-90 riders so the group varies from week to week. It's pretty tough to set ground rules because you don't even know who you're riding with until you start rolling. If it happens again next week, I may say something.

I really don't think that the 2 people that never pulled were just holding on because they would grab onto the attack whenever it happened. 

There are times for short pulls, depending on the group, but this wasn't one of them. I was on a Saturday morning ride from Cycle Loft where everyone would peel off as soon as they got to the front. As long as that is the expectation that is set then it is fine (and more efficient).


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## Bumpsis (Aug 15, 2007)

I have not done pace line/fitness rides for quite some time, but generally I noticed in the past that the faster the pace of the group the greater the deisre of its members to best each other early on. In other words, the hammerheads always were  itching more for  a race rather than a disciplined pace line.

The slower pace groups were just happy to work together as a team longer.

 So you have problem. You can ride at a fast pace, so naturally, you'll have more potential in that group for people itching for a pissing match at the expense of a disiplined ride.

I think it's natural that if you have the juice, when you're just a few miles away from the end, and  especially if all the potential traffic lights were cleared (thus stoppage), some people would want to sprint ahead for that extra bit of satisfaction - an unoffical race for the finish. I saw that even in the slower pace groups.

In the past, I found that the fitness rides with Charles River Wheelmen seemed to be more orderly and people were willing to stay in formation. I haven't ridden on those rides for a quite some time and actually, I really miss it.

I love a good pace line ride. You become a piece of this well oiled machine that makes you move so much faster than a on your own solo ride. And if everyone is working together, it's a real rush to be able to feed off the total energy and contribute to it at the same time.
I get the feeling you like that too.


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## skibum1321 (Aug 16, 2007)

Bumpsis said:


> I have not done pace line/fitness rides for quite some time, but generally I noticed in the past that the faster the pace of the group the greater the deisre of its members to best each other early on. In other words, the hammerheads always were  itching more for  a race rather than a disciplined pace line.
> 
> The slower pace groups were just happy to work together as a team longer.
> 
> ...



The ride that I am speaking of is actually a CRW ride - it leaves every Thursday from Hanscom. There are a lot of NEBC riders there usually, which is why it tends to get competitive. My bigger gripe is the riders that don't pull at all, though. We'll see how the ride goes next week, since I can't make it tonight.


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## Bumpsis (Aug 16, 2007)

Perhaps the CRW fitness rides that leave from Needham (Wed, Saturday) attract different kind of folk.
I'm planning on riding that ride next Wed night, unless the tropics deliver a hurricane swell - riding waves trumps a bike ride any time for me!


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## skibum1321 (Aug 16, 2007)

I usually do the Saturday morning ride from Cycle Loft, which is another fairly aggressive ride, depending on your group, but everyone knows how to ride in groups well. On Wednesday I do the NEBC hill ride from Cycle Loft. Both are great rides that I would recommend. Next year, I'll probably get an NEBC membership and just let the CRW one expire, since I hardly ride with them except Thursday nights.


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## marcski (Aug 17, 2007)

Just an observation that I've had...for the most part I've found road riders, at least ones that I don't know personal, friendly level, to be bascially a**holes.  For example...if you run into a mountain biker on the trails, you'll usually start to talk....and end up riding a bit together...if after a short while, one rider is clearly stronger than the other they will say their goodbyes and go on.  However, on the occassions that I've seen a road rider up ahead and tried to catch up and ride with him..when they turn around and see someone coming, they'd rather speed up and stay ahead.  

This is cearly a generalization, as I've "bumped" into other road riders who and joined them for the last 1/2 of a ride.  But, I think for the most part there is a mentality in road riding that is definitely more competitive and more "macho" than in mtn biking.


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## jplynch019 (Aug 18, 2007)

So when in a pace line should you try to maintain the "pace" if you are ok with it, speed it up if you feel it is too slow, or slow it down if it is going too fast when its your turn to pull?    I guess my point is "A" riders should probably not ride with C (or even B) groups unless they are willing to "play nice" for the sake of the group.

Otherwise ride solo.


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## skibum1321 (Aug 19, 2007)

jplynch019 said:


> So when in a pace line should you try to maintain the "pace" if you are ok with it, speed it up if you feel it is too slow, or slow it down if it is going too fast when its your turn to pull?    I guess my point is "A" riders should probably not ride with C (or even B) groups unless they are willing to "play nice" for the sake of the group.
> 
> Otherwise ride solo.


That is exactly my point. There are usually a bunch of groups that go out: 24+, 22ish, 20ish and 18ish. It seems that most people are afraid of getting dropped though so they ride a group below where they should. I usually go with the 20 mph group and we end up finishing around 21-22. I find that very few riders honestly say what speed they plan on. Instead they subtract 2 from whatever speed they plan on and then the group gets pushed up to the original speed. It's always a tough balance with groups you don't know - sometimes the group is awesome, other times not so much.


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