# Best bump/all-mountain ski



## sankaty (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, and I'm looking for suggestions on skis to try.  I am interested in a ski that will do well in the bumps that will also be competent on hard-packed snow and have some float in powder.  I realize that these goals are somewhat mutually exclusive, but I'm interested in what folks have found to be the best compromise.

My current skis are Rossignol T Power Viper X in 181cm.  By today's standards, they have a modest side cut:  103-65-93.  I like the skis well enough in bumps, but I feel like I'm fighting them in deep snow (a problem which I don't have to face as often as I'd like).  I am a decent zipper line bump skier (when the bumps aren't too insane), and my priority is to find a ski that will do no worse in bumps than my current set, but will surpass them in deeper snow and still do well on hard pack.

I'm not in any rush to buy, and if I can't find anything I'm crazy about, I'll just stick with my Vipers.  But if any bump skiers care to make some recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
James


----------



## awf170 (Mar 11, 2006)

sankaty said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and I'm looking for suggestions on skis to try. I am interested in a ski that will do well in the bumps that will also be competent on hard-packed snow and have some float in powder. I realize that these goals are somewhat mutually exclusive, but I'm interested in what folks have found to be the best compromise.
> 
> ...



Why don't you keep these skis for bumps, and get another ski for days your not skiing bumps.  A quiver is your friend.  An all mountain ski is a ski that is equally bad at everything.  Your not going to find a ski with good float and good at bumps.


----------



## sankaty (Mar 11, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> Why don't you keep these skis for bumps, and get another ski for days your not skiing bumps.  A quiver is your friend.  An all mountain ski is a ski that is equally bad at everything.  Your not going to find a ski with good float and good at bumps.



You may be right, but hope springs eternal.  I ski bumps everyday (unless they are bulletproof), so having a ski that isn't good in bumps doesn't seem practical.  If I lived out west, perhaps I could justify a dedicated powder ski, but it doesn't come up enough around here, so I'd just use my current skis if I can't find a pair that is a better balance.

Thanks,
James


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 11, 2006)

austin has a good point.  if your current skis are good in the bumps, you may want to consider a second ski just for non-bump days.  the "all mountain ski" lines from most ski manufacturers are a large enough tip-waist-tail dimensions that they loose some effect in the bumps, especially the really wide powder boards.  i made a compromise on bumps skiing when i went with the legend 8000, though i think they perform a little more lively in the bumps than a lot of the other all mountain expert skis on the market.  but bumps are not the most important thing to me... natural snow and powder are.  everything ski you look at is going to be a compromise unless you look at purchasing multiple skis for different styles of skiing.  you have to decide if that compromise is worth while or not.  you may want to look at demoing the following skis: dynastar legend 8000, volkl unlimited ac3, elan m666.  rossi has the B2 and head has their monster line (don't know the numbers) and atmoic has the metron.  try em' out and see what you like, some will comprimise more in bumps than others.


----------



## awf170 (Mar 11, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> austin has a good point. if your current skis are good in the bumps, you may want to consider a second ski just for non-bump days. the "all mountain ski" lines from most ski manufacturers are a large enough tip-waist-tail dimensions that they loose some effect in the bumps, especially the really wide powder boards. i made a compromise on bumps skiing when i went with the legend 8000, though i think they perform a little more lively in the bumps than a lot of the other all mountain expert skis on the market. but bumps are not the most important thing to me... natural snow and powder are. everything ski you look at is going to be a compromise unless you look at purchasing multiple skis for different styles of skiing. you have to decide if that compromise is worth while or not. you may want to look at demoing the following skis: dynastar legend 8000, volkl unlimited ac3, elan m666. rossi has the B2 and head has their monster line (don't know the numbers) and atmoic has the metron. try em' out and see what you like, some will comprimise more in bumps than others.




A big no no on the metrons, way too much sidecut will make them absolutly horrible in bump.  I know your saying this isnt his bump ski but I think he would still go in the bumps every once in a while on non bump days.  If you want a comprise between powder in bumps you would probably want the least amount as sidecut possible right.  I don't know much about bumps but the worst thing is a large tip and sidecut right?  A legend 8000 and a 8800 have the same size tip(117mm) so they should be equally as good in the bumps right?  I kind of clueless about bumps so if this is a wrong assumption fill me in.


----------



## NHpowderhound (Mar 11, 2006)

If you are a bumper then buy some dedicated bump skis because thats what makes you happiest and keep your other skis as a backup IMO. If you are looking for advice on specific mougul skis try asking *Dan Dipiro* who is an AlpineZone user. Ask him on the Everything instructors never told you about mougul skiing thread or drop him a private message. That thread alone should give you some help if you have qestions. Dan is passionate about bumps and teaching and may give you some help.
If you'd rather not go with a dedicated bumper but still want it for mostly bumps then I wouldnt get anything with too deep of a sidecut or you'll be fighting them all the way down the zipper.
((*
*))NHPH


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 11, 2006)

i think width may be just as much an issue as sidecut.  for example, austin compares the 8000 and the 8800.  as an owner of both (past season equivelent at least), i would MUCH rather have the 8000 in the bumps.  the wide waist of the 8800, and wider nature of the ski in general throughout it's proportions, makes me prefer the 8000 hands down over the 8800 in the bumps.  that said, i don't rip the bumps nearly half as much as i used to with my 63 waist p50s that ripped things up.  narrower and less side cut are your friends in the bumps... anything less is the compromise you have to make.  i understand the desire to have something to get you to and from the bumps since even when skiing bumps, you usually end up on non-bump trails for a good part of the day.  but the choice is yours to make on how much sacrifice is worth while.


----------



## Greg (Mar 12, 2006)

I went with the Volkl AC3 (74mm waist) as an all-mountain compromise. I'm not the most proficient bump skier, but they seem to work okay for me (not a zipper line bump skier). The AC3s are great on the hard pack at moderate speeds (some chatter at high speeds) and ski well in the cruddy conditions I've ridden them through. Probaby worth a demo.


----------



## sankaty (Mar 12, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> I went with the Volkl AC3 (74mm waist) as an all-mountain compromise. I'm not the most proficient bump skier, but they seem to work okay for me (not a zipper line bump skier). The AC3s are great on the hard pack at moderate speeds (some chatter at high speeds) and ski well in the cruddy conditions I've ridden them through. Probaby worth a demo.



Thanks, Greg.  That's the kind of recommendation I'm looking for.  If I demo them and like my current skis better, so be it.

Incidentally, you certainly appear to be in the zipper line in your Sundown photo.  I've been thinking about trying to get up to Sundown to try the bumps on Noreaster this spring.  They sound (and look) fun.  It seems that we're in for a cold snap after the rain, though, so it may be a little while.

Best,
James


----------



## Greg (Mar 16, 2006)

sankaty said:
			
		

> Incidentally, you certainly appear to be in the zipper line in your Sundown photo.  I've been thinking about trying to get up to Sundown to try the bumps on Noreaster this spring.  They sound (and look) fun.  It seems that we're in for a cold snap after the rain, though, so it may be a little while.


Thanks, but lucky shot! 

I might head over Friday night for some night skiing. The bumps on Nor'easter have been a blast and they've been rock-hard all season so they're probably not in any worse shape right now. The pitch is not very steep so they actually ski a bit better hard and fast. Might be a really slow run if they get soft and gloppy, but they did do a great job on that trail. Let me konw if you want to hook up and take some turns...


----------



## JimG. (Mar 16, 2006)

sankaty said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and I'm looking for suggestions on skis to try.  I am interested in a ski that will do well in the bumps that will also be competent on hard-packed snow and have some float in powder.  I realize that these goals are somewhat mutually exclusive, but I'm interested in what folks have found to be the best compromise.
> 
> ...



James, your request is going to be tough to satisfy. I'm a bump lover too, and I'm not a fan of multiple ski quivers either. I'm sure ski manufacturers love folks who buy different skis for different conditions; personally, I think it's totally unnecessary in most cases...

Except for bumpers. Skis with too much sidecut or too much width underfoot are no good in tight bump lines. So, I have a pair of dedicated bump skis and another pair for other conditions.

I think that's the route you're going down too. Good bump skis to consider are:

Dynastar Twister
Volkl Dragon Slayer
Rossi Scratch

I'm a Dynastar man myself. Since it sounds like you're relatively happy with your Vipers in bumps, you might consider the recommendations that RivercOil and awf170 made...all excellent all mountain skis you would probably be happy with in powder and on flats.


----------



## 2knees (Mar 16, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> James, your request is going to be tough to satisfy. I'm a bump lover too, and I'm not a fan of multiple ski quivers either. I'm sure ski manufacturers love folks who buy different skis for different conditions; personally, I think it's totally unnecessary in most cases...
> 
> Except for bumpers. Skis with too much sidecut or too much width underfoot are no good in tight bump lines. So, I have a pair of dedicated bump skis and another pair for other conditions.
> 
> ...



Jim, i agree  with your comments regarding multiple skis.  Outside of drastic differences such as a powder board and a superstiff racing ski, if you "blacked out" the markings would the average skier with a large quiver even be able to tell what ski they were actually on at that moment?

anyway, that wasnt my point, but you say you have a dedicated bump ski.  What drawbacks do they have for you on the rest of the hill.  I imagine they really cant handle serious hardpack, but outside of that, could they pass on a decent day?  I'm going to look into purchasing a bump ski for next season, which is why i ask.


----------



## JimG. (Mar 16, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> anyway, that wasnt my point, but you say you have a dedicated bump ski.  What drawbacks do they have for you on the rest of the hill.  I imagine they really cant handle serious hardpack, but outside of that, could they pass on a decent day?  I'm going to look into purchasing a bump ski for next season, which is why i ask.



Pat, as I said before, I think the hype over multiple skis for varying terrain and conditions is ridiculous. But in the case of bumpers, wide skis with alot of sidecut just don't perform well. Gotta have my bump skis for bumps.

However, going the other way, I've never bothered to switch out of my bump skis and onto my other skis when I've gone from bumps to hardpack or powder or whatever. The bump skis work fine for me. OK, I'll admit they aren't ideal on really icy surfaces, but I make them work anyway. Same for powder. For God's sakes, 15 years ago we all skiied on skinny skis with little sidecut!

If you understand how to carve a turn and your boots are properly fitted, the skis on your feet just don't make as much of a difference as some would have you believe unless you're skiing bumps. So buy the bump skis and keep what you have now for other stuff.


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 16, 2006)

> Outside of drastic differences such as a powder board and a superstiff racing ski, if you "blacked out" the markings would the average skier with a large quiver even be able to tell what ski they were actually on at that moment?


the average skier, definitely not.  i certainly notice a huge difference between my three ski choices though.  p50 for ripping the groomed and bumps, legend 8000 for most everything else, and the 8800 for the deep powder and big mountain descents.  generally, i stick to the 8000 for pretty much everything in bounds now a days though.  but the differences are substantial.  the compromise factor is you really don't want to need to bring multiple skis to the area.  try a race ski, an all mountain ski, and then a powder board back to back and i think most expert level skiers will notice a HUGE difference.  worth justifying multiple skis for different conditions?  depends on how much you value performance in those different conditions and how much you prefer to compromise.  a GS or SL ski make good bumps skis because they are often narrow without a huge deal of side cut (depending on the model) and you can also rip up the groomed.  not the best in pow or "crud" though.


----------



## awf170 (Mar 16, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> the average skier, definitely not. i certainly notice a huge difference between my three ski choices though. p50 for ripping the groomed and bumps, legend 8000 for most everything else, and the 8800 for the deep powder and big mountain descents. generally, i stick to the 8000 for pretty much everything in bounds now a days though. but the differences are substantial. the compromise factor is you really don't want to need to bring multiple skis to the area. try a race ski, an all mountain ski, and then a powder board back to back and i think most expert level skiers will notice a HUGE difference. worth justifying multiple skis for different conditions? depends on how much you value performance in those different conditions and how much you prefer to compromise. a GS or SL ski make good bumps skis because they are often narrow without a huge deal of side cut (depending on the model) and you can also rip up the groomed. not the best in pow or "crud" though.



Also if you think about it having a quiver doesn't cost anymore because the skis will last longer.


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 16, 2006)

that really depends how you ski them!  most folks are pretty protective of their bases in which case it is better buying only one ski because technology is getting better so fast, that in the long run you'd be better spreading it out if you don't completely go through a ski every three seasons.


----------



## 2knees (Mar 16, 2006)

I've owned up to, i think, 4 pairs at once.  I would never have described it as a quiver though because 3 of the 4 would barely pass for rockers.  I dont know, i must be rather average, because short of the weight difference, i didnt notice a huge difference between my 193 volkls and my new 175 volants.  I just hate the fat tips and tails in the bumps.  gotta get something with less sidecut.


----------



## sankaty (Mar 17, 2006)

Thanks everyone for all the input and recommendations.  It's given me lots to think about.

Has any one tried short twin-tips such as the Salomon 1080 gun in bumps?  It seems that the width and side cut would be impediments, but the length and flexibility would be assets.  I've read some user reviews that rate skis like this highly in bumps and others that don't.  I know that they are unsuitable for any kind of hardpack, but If they were competent in bumps, they could be a fun post snowstorm ski.

Thanks,
James


----------



## JimG. (Mar 17, 2006)

sankaty said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for all the input and recommendations.  It's given me lots to think about.
> 
> Has any one tried short twin-tips such as the Salomon 1080 gun in bumps?  It seems that the width and side cut would be impediments, but the length and flexibility would be assets.  I've read some user reviews that rate skis like this highly in bumps and others that don't.  I know that they are unsuitable for any kind of hardpack, but If they were competent in bumps, they could be a fun post snowstorm ski.
> 
> ...



Twin tips are not a bad choice for bump skis. In fact, my bump skis are an older version of twin tips, the Dynastar Concept 178. Remember, these are 5 years old and twin tips now are quite a bit different. Mine are just 74mm underfoot which is wider than most bump skis, but still fairly narrow by today's standards. They don't have alot of sidecut, and they are fairly long (178cm). In addition, they are much stiffer than current model twin tips which are VERY soft, especially in the tail. 

If you're going to use a twin tip, make sure it's not too wide underfoot and that it's not too soft, especially in the tail area. You don't want a stiff ski either, but too much flex in the tail will sure as heck get you in the backseat eventually. Make sure you demo before you buy.


----------



## NYDrew (Mar 23, 2006)

Rossi Z9, they do it all pretty well....including bumps.  In the bumps they take some getting used to, if your a traditional bump skiier that does zippers, you need to add in an extra movement to keep the massive sidecut from hooking.  I don't know how to describe the movement in words.  I have been happy with these skiis in pow, bumps, glades, back country and while they don't perform well at very high speeds, I find them acceptable at those high speeds.  Check them out.  You might also be interested in next years rossignol mutix ski.


----------



## Brettski (Apr 9, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> James, your request is going to be tough to satisfy. I'm a bump lover too, and I'm not a fan of multiple ski quivers either. I'm sure ski manufacturers love folks who buy different skis for different conditions; personally, I think it's totally unnecessary in most cases...
> 
> Except for bumpers. Skis with too much sidecut or too much width underfoot are no good in tight bump lines. So, I have a pair of dedicated bump skis and another pair for other conditions.
> 
> ...




Make that Dynastar Vertical Assaults...love mine still

Then I bought the Rockets.  What a totally different style of skiing.  Your center of gravity is totally different.  they are an absolute blast.  But they are not a bump ski or a hard pack steep vert ski.  You can easily over drive them and wash out the tail.

Soooo....I test drove a pair of Volkl AllStars...man did I love those...I tried to overdrive them and couldn't...talk about carve.

So I'll bring 3 skis to the mountain...fine by me....

Now to find a pair of allstars that won't break the bank

Oh, my Rockets are 185...I'm 5 11 at 220

I still can't buy into to this short is better thing...my mogul skis are 203


----------



## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 18, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> A big no no on the metrons, way too much sidecut will make them absolutly horrible in bump.



No ski will make you absolutely horrible in bumps or great in bumps, it's your skill level in them that makes you or breaks you. I realize that certain skis are more conducive to bumps then others, but if you can ski them you'll ski them well on almost any type recreational ski.


----------



## ckofer (Apr 19, 2006)

_)_


			
				highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> No ski will make you absolutely horrible in bumps or great in bumps, it's your skill level in them that makes you or breaks you. I realize that certain skis are more conducive to bumps then others, but if you can ski them you'll ski them well on almost any type recreational ski.


 
I've got a pair of metrons (m11/162). I'm 6 feet tall & weigh 220.






Using the stuff I learned in Dan D's book, they seem fine in the bumps. The huge shovels make them float through anything (especially local crud: _packed chowda)_ . Don't have the high-speed confidence that I have felt with other skis (SX11, etc) but I seldom get passed on the mountain. The shape has really transformed spring skiing for me. I bought them with an Atomic race binding that can be adjusted forward or backward about 1.5" without tools. This makes a HUGE difference. All the way foreward ( _EXTREM ) _and the bite seems pretty good. Put them all the way back for powder and slush; you'll find the tips will float while you can still apply forward pressure.


----------



## Traverser (Apr 27, 2006)

I'm new to the forum as well and by no means an expert skier.
I bought the  '07 Volkl AC3, and I'm happy as a pig in poo.  I demo'd the 6 stars before and was thrilled with the awesome performance on the groomers, but I knew I needed an allmountain ski for my only ski.
The AC3's are incredibly quick, cut like a skate in ice, and give me every bit as much of a thrill on the hard pack as did the 6 stars.  On fresh snow, and between the trees off the groomers I did fine.

So that's my recommendation. -Coming from someone who just recently got comfortable on single blacks and attempted "the wall" a double black, but that's another story.
Good luck


----------

