# I want to love the 2014-15 Subaru Forester



## billski (Apr 28, 2016)

The last time Subarus were discussed here was 2013.  Since then, Subaru has refreshed both the Forester and Outback / rebadged. 

I am in the market for a 2014 or 15 Forester or Outback.  I buy used.  I really want to love the Forester. There are only two things holding me back right now. 1. Highway Noise and 2. Seat comfort.

I know, I've got to try them for myself, but a lot of people on several sub boards are dissing the comfort of the Forester. It is especially for long rides this is an issue.

I have also heard that the seats are different as you go up the trim levels, from base, to premium, to limited to touring. A couple people mentioned that the leather seats are nice.

Now, I know this is uber-subjective, body types, height, age and various preferences, but I'd like you to take a swing at this.

I drive to the NH and Maine mountains a LOT, summer, fall and winter. In the summer, I go soft-roading, that is, off paved roads onto forest, logging or local roads, mostly unmaintained. I take these roads to get someplace. I can take getting banged around there. So I'm not looking for comments on handling, etc., just creature comfort.

I've heard nothing but good things about the outback seats. But I'm still smitten over the Forester. I just don't want to have a bad ride for the next 10 years.

Long trips = 100 miles +



What do you think?
Thanks!​


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## Not Sure (Apr 28, 2016)

Pass, Those are too big drawbacks that can't be overcome especially after a long day of skiing. 

Lots of crossover options, wife has a Kia Sorrento and loves it ! Great in snow and has lots of power, quiet and comfortable ride and heated seats.


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## billski (Apr 28, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Pass, /QUOTE]
> 
> I can't get past the Forester's AWD, x-mode transmission, 8.5" ground clearance and reliability ratings.  Do hit those boulders now and then.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 28, 2016)

I'm a well known Subaru hater and the Forester will likely be the next car I get for my wife. Only compact AWD SUV or Wagon left on the market you can get a manual transmission in. I'd rather put her in a 4 door Tacoma, but too big for her liking.  

Guess owning a Subaru will be my just deserts for all the years I've crapped on them.


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## Not Sure (Apr 28, 2016)

billski said:


> Siliconebobsquarepants said:
> 
> 
> > Pass, /QUOTE]
> ...


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## snoseek (Apr 28, 2016)

I bought a little impreza a couple years ago. It drives nice, gets good mileage and is great in the snow but man it feels like a disposable car. 

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


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## yeggous (Apr 28, 2016)

I looked at the Forester. It is too small for me. I liked the Outback, but at that price point there are better options. For an SUV, the new Santa Fe Sport is nice. Bigger than both Subarus and has been automated safety features than the Subaru EyeSight.


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## WoodCore (Apr 28, 2016)

I have the top trim level seats in my 2013 Outback and love them!


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## xwhaler (Apr 28, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> billski said:
> 
> 
> > Kia is 7.3" I have yet to get stuck , I live off road . Trans has a lock button for extra traction.
> ...


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## Not Sure (Apr 28, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> Siliconebobsquarepants said:
> 
> 
> > What yr Sorento?  My wife has a '12 Sorento EX v6.    It's nice enough but when we replace it will likely be in a Mazda CX-5/9.    Fit/finish on the Kias is not the best IMHO
> ...


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## gmcunni (Apr 28, 2016)

we have 2015 Subi outback, also have a 2015 wrangler.  Wrangler gets worse gas mileage, more road noise and less comfortable seats.  i prefer to drive the jeep.


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## yeggous (Apr 29, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> we have 2015 Subi outback, also have a 2015 wrangler.  Wrangler gets worse gas mileage, more road noise and less comfortable seats.  i prefer to drive the jeep.



Sure, because what self-respecting man prefers to drive a station wagon over a Jeep?


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## frapcap (Apr 29, 2016)

My fiances father has a 2015 Outback. Its at the very top end of the model lineup, and I enjoy those seats quite a bit. The most time I've spent in it at once was 6 hours. Wasn't bad at all, and the seats were certainly better than my base model Imprezza (snoseek is right, they feel disposable). 
My favorite thing is the adaptive cruise. You can use it to 'cheat' in bumper to bumper traffic. If you set the cruise to 30 it'll accelerate and brake for you in a non-alarming fashion. Big fan. 

IMO, go for a high end trim and the seats will improve.


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## Edd (Apr 29, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Sure, because what self-respecting man prefers to drive a station wagon over a Jeep?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Hand raised. A Jeep has nothing I need that I can't get from a Subaru.


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## Cannonball (Apr 29, 2016)

We have 2015 Forrester.  I find it very comfortable to drive and I haven't really noticed the road noise.  But I'm not all that picky either, I've never owned a high end vehicle.


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## yeggous (Apr 29, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> We have 2015 Forrester.  I find it very comfortable to drive and I haven't really noticed the road noise.  But I'm not all that picky either, I've never owned a high end vehicle.



Define "high end"? One of the first things I noticed about my new truck is how much quieter it is.

We have several test cars at work. It is amazing how the European luxury cars compare. It's all about the little things. Road noise is a big part of that. Some of them even have massage seats in the front and back.

I really judge a car by its automated safety features. Subaru's EyeSight is probably the lowest cost ways to get such a package. For that reason I commend them for bring these features to the masses, despite the fact that they're going to be required in the very near future. The problem is that in order to make it so affordable they cut some serious corners. The fact that it relies solely on cameras means that it is much more limited and unreliable. Bang for your buck, the Hyundai system is the best value on the market today. It's barely more expensive than the Subaru system, and works much, much better.


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## hammer (Apr 29, 2016)

If seat comfort is an issue then I'd say go with a Volvo...my S40 has the least comfortable seats of any model I driven (I've been in a few others as service loaners) and my car still does well on long trips.  If ground clearance is an issue there's always an XC60 or one of the XC models, although you would have to go slightly used to get to a similar price point.

I know Volvos don't have a sterling reliability record, but my car is getting close to 105K and I've had very few real issues and those that I had were covered while the car was under warranty.

I still don't get all of the reliability claims on Subarus.  My son has an 09 Impreza (mainly for the AWD) and I have been setting money aside for the inevitable head gasket replacement.  They might be reliable in many areas but I still don't think they have fixed this.


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## Abubob (Apr 29, 2016)

I test drove one years ago but the first thought was as soon as I sat down was "These seats are terrible!" Never gave it another look.


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## jimk (Apr 29, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> We have 2015 Forrester.  I find it very comfortable to drive and I haven't really noticed the road noise.  But I'm not all that picky either, I've never owned a high end vehicle.



I have a 2014 Outback purchased in summer 2013.  My son has a 2015 Forester purchased in summer 2014.  I like the length of my outback's cargo area and how easy the roof rack is to adapt to a ski rack, but for everything else I like my son's forester better.  His forester was the first year of the latest version, but he got a model with few options.  My outback is the last year of the prior version of that vehicle, I also got very few options.  Both vehicles good in snow.  I have no issues with the comfort of seats in either vehicle?  Both fine in this respect although not plush, but I don't have much preference about this feature (all seats are better than hitch-hiking in ski boots?) and also have never owned a high end vehicle of any kind.  Voted 'meh avg' in your poll, but didn't mean it as a condemnation.  
The transmission smoothness and driver visibility out windows is much superior in the 2015 Forester than the 2014 Outback IMHO.  Would highly recommend used 2015 Forester.

Adding:  Problem with Subaru, at least where I live, buying late model used is expensive because they hold their value.  I could buy new one with few options for less than same late model used one with more options.   I like buying late model used cars too and best example was '97 Maxima I bought in '99 with 50k miles.  I guess a Maxima counts as high end car these days? , but I didn't think the '97 model was, although probably my favorite vehicle I have ever owned.  It stayed in the family 15 years and son was still driving it in 2014 when it needed costly repairs and he decided to buy his Forester.


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## billski (Apr 30, 2016)

Thanks for all your comments guys.  
High end, I'm just the opposite.  I'm coming from an '06 Audi A6 with damn near every feature you can possibly imagine.  That's why I'm selling it.  At 190K miles, it's the repair a month club.  And Audi repairs ain't cheap, even at the local garage.  While it's AWD and handles great in the snow, it's got uber low clearance at 4.6" it's scary going soft-roading, which I can see my future journeys.  The audi road handling is superb and the inside is uber quiet.  I can get way past the foot lights, door handle lights, dimming dome light, auto moonroof which when it fails (and it will) costs thousands to repair, remote mirror retractor and alarms that seem to go off for every stupid reason possible.  The calipers are electronic, one more expensive thing to replace.  I do love the Xeon lights for penetrating the Maine nighttime (I can do that with an aftermarket if I really want to).  And on it goes.

The car is way more than I need or want.  Compare that to my daughter's Corolla, which I drove a bit last weekend, and I was perfectly happy with manual this, manual that, etc.   My kids are gone, I mostly just transport myself, my skis and my backpack, and the occasional partner.  
At first I wanted a Jeep, but my wife reminded me I'm gonna have to keep it for 200K miles or 10 years (house financial guideline).  Cars are just utility for us, not an end.  

My short list didn't contain a Kia or Sorento.  Santa Fe is more than I want to spend and has a 3rd row seat I don't want.  CX5  is on the short list. I am fixated by ground clearance, since there are places I want to go I don't dare try. 

Only a few others on the short list.  CRV, not enough ground clearance, Ford Escape reliability and mpg concerns.  Nissan Rogue has a poor angle of approach (so does the CX5), no clever x-mode feature.  Mitsubishi Outlander (have to get rid of those 18" tires and 3rd row seat).  VW tiguan ditto the 18" tires, gets pricy fast).


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## frapcap (May 2, 2016)

Check out one of these guys:
http://www.jaguar.com/jaguar-range/f-pace/index.html

They look like a lot of bang for the buck (at least, while they're under warranty).


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## Cannonball (May 2, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Define "high end"?



More expensive than a Forester.


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## Scruffy (May 2, 2016)

billski said:


> ...
> At first I wanted a Jeep, but my wife reminded me I'm gonna have to keep it for 200K miles or 10 years (house financial guideline).  Cars are just utility for us, not an end.
> 
> My short list didn't contain a Kia or Sorento...



Bill, can you elaborate on why the jeep ( and what model jeep?)  didn't make your short list after your wife reminded you you'll need to keep the thing for 10 years? Reliability? Cost of maintenance? MPG? Resale value?  Just curious, not starting anything. I'm in the market for a new ski vehicle myself soon and found this thread useful.


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## gmcunni (May 2, 2016)

Scruffy said:


> Bill, can you elaborate on why the jeep ( and what model jeep?)  didn't make your short list after your wife reminded you you'll need to keep the thing for 10 years? Reliability? Cost of maintenance? MPG? Resale value?  Just curious, not starting anything. I'm in the market for a new ski vehicle myself soon and found this thread useful.



fwiw - http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/96471-Jeep-owners


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## crank (May 2, 2016)

My girlfriend has a 2014 Forester.  Seats are fine...we take a lot of long trips up to northern VT, NH, etc.  She did get a higher end package on her car though if that makes a difference in the seating quality.


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## gmcunni (May 2, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> fwiw - http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/96471-Jeep-owners



lol at me. you are already posting in that thread


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## Warp Daddy (May 3, 2016)

Bill we have a 2012 Outback Limited ,leather heated seats are awesome , ride is smooth we love it has 25 k on it 

also have a 2014 RAv 4 XLE , nice. Car like it too but the OUTBACK ride and seats are superior . Will buy another when necessary .


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## bigbog (May 9, 2016)

Bill, 
If a Jeep Wrangler is still on the list......try a late model Xterra with 4wd(2012-15') or 4Runner.  Quite a few lightly used Xterras around, for a dinosaur design..but works fine($.01_opinion). 
MPG was never great but that's what you get for a truck chassis=great offroad.


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## 180 (May 9, 2016)

We have a 2015 Outback with eyesight, full leather seats.  Very Comfortable.  Also interested in selling it.


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## yeggous (May 9, 2016)

180 said:


> We have a 2015 Outback with eyesight, full leather seats.  Very Comfortable.  Also interested in selling it.



Ha. What a ringing endorsement!


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## 180 (May 9, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Ha. What a ringing endorsement!



i guess you could take it that way, we actually want a 17


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## catskillman (May 10, 2016)

Are you aware that there is a class action lawsuit regarding the oil burning situation.  These cars are burning oil.  You need to add oil at 1500 miles.


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## steamboat1 (May 10, 2016)

catskillman said:


> Are you aware that there is a class action lawsuit regarding the oil burning situation.  These cars are burning oil.  You need to add oil at 1500 miles.


I use synthetic oil in mine & I'd say at about 4,000 miles it would take a quart. Not much different than most engines.


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## yeggous (May 10, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I use synthetic oil in mine & I'd say at about 4,000 miles it would take a quart. Not much different than most engines.



That's bullshit. 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm


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## steamboat1 (May 10, 2016)

yeggous said:


> That's bullshit.
> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm


I have 104,000 miles on my car & have owned it since new. I think I know how much oil my car burns.


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## JimG. (May 10, 2016)

We are driving 3 Subis now and have owned 2 others. Oil burning and topping off oil has never been an issue.
Subis do get leaky head gaskets that usually need replacement after 100,000 miles or so. Not a cheap repair but I have never replaced more than one on any of the Subis I've owned.

All have (gotten) over 200,000 miles and my 04 Outback had over 350,000; it would still be running if it had not been rear ended and totaled stopped at a school crossing. Seats were fine too.


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## yeggous (May 10, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I have 104,000 miles on my car & have owned it since new. I think I know how much oil my car burns.



I don't doubt that you burn that much. My comment was more in reply to:


> Not much different than most engines.



It's not normal for an engine to burn oil.


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## JimG. (May 10, 2016)

yeggous said:


> It's not normal for an engine to burn oil.



Oil wears out; "burning" oil may reflect a maintenance issue more so than mechanical.

An engine that "smokes" oil is truly burning oil and that is due to a mechanical issue. Or oil was spilled on the engine block/exhaust when replaced.


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## Cannonball (May 10, 2016)

My 2013 Crosstrek has $60K miles on it.  I've owned it since new.  Occasionally and randomly it goes from completely full oil to almost empty oil instantly. I have to always carry oil just in case.  The dealer shrugs. 

My Mom's 2014 Impreza has $30K on it. She's owned it since new. Starting at brand new, it was frequently losing all of its oil instantaneously. She had it back to the dealer at least a dozen times for "seal and gasket" repairs.  Eventually they replaced the engine. 

My Wife's 2015 Forester doesn't seem to have any oil issues.


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## yeggous (May 10, 2016)

Cannonball said:


> My 2013 Crosstrek has $60K miles on it.  I've owned it since new.  Occasionally and randomly it goes from completely full oil to almost empty oil instantly. I have to always carry oil just in case.  The dealer shrugs.
> 
> My Mom's 2014 Impreza has $30K on it. She's owned it since new. Starting at brand new, it was frequently losing all of its oil instantaneously. She had it back to the dealer at least a dozen times for "seal and gasket" repairs.  Eventually they replaced the engine.
> 
> My Wife's 2015 Forester doesn't seem to have any oil issues.



How could an issue like this go on so long without being fixed? It blows my mind. At least in the case of BMW and Audi I can see some handwaving answer about a compromise with performance. Those German cars are known to be maintenance nightmares and buyers seem to accept that. But Subaru? This surprises me, but it seems to be the case.


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## Cannonball (May 10, 2016)

yeggous said:


> How could an issue like this go on so long without being fixed? It blows my mind. At least in the case of BMW and Audi I can see some handwaving answer about a compromise with performance. Those German cars are known to be maintenance nightmares and buyers seem to accept that. But Subaru? This surprises me, but it seems to be the case.



Agree 100%.  Subaru customer service really sucks. I had a starter issue that was an even bigger deal.  I can't believe the lengths I had to go through to finally get fixed.


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## JimG. (May 10, 2016)

Never had any of these issues; never heard of a car just losing oil. Where does it go?

Maybe it's new Subis, mine are(were) 1996, 2004, 2005, 2005, and 2011.

Never had a bad CS experience either. Just sayin'.


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## deadheadskier (May 10, 2016)

I'll be interested to hear the class action lawsuit results.

Does it involve the head gasket?  As far as I'm concerned, pretty much every Subaru owner who has paid to have a head gasket repaired should get a refund. It sounds like the problem still persists.  That's a $2k fix. When a problem is that common, it is a design flaw.  Head gasket replacement is an extremely rare issue with all other brands. It's not routine maintenance.  How Subaru has gotten away with defrauding their customers over that issue for all these years blows my mind.


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## Edd (May 10, 2016)

JimG. said:


> Never had any of these issues; never heard of a car just losing oil. Where does it go?
> 
> Maybe it's new Subis, mine are(were) 1996, 2004, 2005, 2005, and 2011.
> 
> Never had a bad CS experience either. Just sayin'.



Same here. I've had a 2002 and a 2010; very fortunate with reliability.


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## 180 (May 10, 2016)

we have had 3 outbacks and 1 imprezza, no oil burning issues


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## steamboat1 (May 10, 2016)

I've had good experiences with Subi's customer service.


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## frapcap (May 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be interested to hear the class action lawsuit results.
> 
> Does it involve the head gasket?  As far as I'm concerned, pretty much every Subaru owner who has paid to have a head gasket repaired should get a refund. It sounds like the problem still persists.  That's a $2k fix. When a problem is that common, it is a design flaw.  Head gasket replacement is an extremely rare issue with all other brands. It's not routine maintenance.  How Subaru has gotten away with defrauding their customers over that issue for all these years blows my mind.



There is an existing class action lawsuit that is still open for new customers. I think the settlement is extended warranties on the engine. I'm with you, how they manage to tout "reliability" is beyond me. The things really start failing around 65k. 



Cannonball said:


> My 2013 Crosstrek has $60K miles on it.  I've  owned it since new.  Occasionally and randomly it goes from completely  full oil to almost empty oil instantly. I have to always carry oil just  in case.  The dealer shrugs.
> 
> My Mom's 2014 Impreza has $30K on it. She's owned it since new. Starting  at brand new, it was frequently losing all of its oil instantaneously.  She had it back to the dealer at least a dozen times for "seal and  gasket" repairs.  Eventually they replaced the engine.
> 
> My Wife's 2015 Forester doesn't seem to have any oil issues.




Has the 2014 had any issues since? 

My 2015 Impreza with 6k on the clock is scheduled for a new engine. Since mile 1, it has consumed approximately 2.5 quarts of oil per 3,000 miles. The oil consumption test didn't take long to determine that someone is seriously wrong with the engine. My guess is that they're going to send the small block back to the manufacturer and test/try to diagnose what is causing their equipment to not operate so spectacularly.


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## deadheadskier (May 11, 2016)

In my case, it was a company car, so I wouldn't be entitled to a benefit.  It was a 2005 Legacy Wagon with 94K miles on it when it completely went to hell.  Head gasket gone, tie rods, timing belt, CV boots, rotars. It was basically a $4K repair bill.

I took over the vehicle when it was 3 years old and had 67K miles and it felt like I was driving a 10 year old vehicle.  Granted the prior rep lived in Manhattan. That said, I spend a great deal of time driving around Boston for work and haven't had any issues with my Mazda 3 (124k miles) or the Hyundai Sonata (167K) miles before it. 

I'd like to think I had a lemon, but then I read about your experience and that of so many others and I question whether I buy a Subaru someday even if the utility makes sense.


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## yeggous (May 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> In my case, it was a company car, so I wouldn't be entitled to a benefit.  It was a 2005 Legacy Wagon with 94K miles on it when it completely went to hell.  Head gasket gone, tie rods, timing belt, CV boots, rotars. It was basically a $4K repair bill.
> 
> I took over the vehicle when it was 3 years old and had 67K miles and it felt like I was driving a 10 year old vehicle.  Granted the prior rep lived in Manhattan. That said, I spend a great deal of time driving around Boston for work and haven't had any issues with my Mazda 3 (124k miles) or the Hyundai Sonata (167K) miles before it.
> 
> I'd like to think I had a lemon, but then I read about your experience and that of so many others and I question whether I buy a Subaru someday even if the utility makes sense.



I don't get why Subaru has such a cult following. When I was car shopping they just did not make sense. If you're after utility, there are more reliable and more practical vehicles for the money.

You should never have to put oil into a car between changes which should be at least 7,500 miles apart. It is not normal to need to refill the oil.

There are a lot of reliable manufacturers on the market today, but Subaru is not one of them. Who has looked at the J.D. Power's Dependability studies? You might be interested by the results. It's not pretty if you're Subaru.

2016: http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-(VDS)-by-Category/843ENG
2015: http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-(VDS)-by-Category/433ENG


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## deadheadskier (May 11, 2016)

I change my oil at 5K, but that's mainly due to rotating tires at the same time. Perhaps I'll push it out to 7500. I wonder if I'll notice any appreciable loss in tread life on the tire.  I like doing both oil and rotation at the same appointment out of convenience.


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## yeggous (May 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I change my oil at 5K, but that's mainly due to rotating tires at the same time. Perhaps I'll push it out to 7500. I wonder if I'll notice any appreciable loss in tread life on the tire.  I like doing both oil and rotation at the same appointment out of convenience.



On both my vehicles I change the oil and rotate the tires at the same time. On my Hyundai Santa Fe, that's every 7500 miles. On my Chevy Silverado, it's whenever the computers tells me to do so, which is about the same but changes based on driving conditions.


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## SkiFanE (May 11, 2016)

I have a longstanding (maybe outdated?) stereotype against Subarus, so never look or consider them. 

But - as a 5'4" woman all seats suck. Both our cars have lumbar support but it's too high for my back so it's useless. Part of my daily core excercise is sitting up perfectly straight in all cars because none are ever comfortable. So don't even consider seat when choosing car. 

We have a 2013 Mazda CX-5 - didn't realize at the time it was a new model. Have absolutely loved it. Has almost 80k miles and is only new car that I've never had to take to dealer for warranty items (thankfully, dealers suck lol).  Only problem is brakes wore out by 26k miles which pissed me off - and I felt compelled to have tire store fix for fear of my life (lol). Later I learned Mazda recognized some flaw in brakes eventually, husband has done last 2 brake jobs. They now have a V6 which i'd probably get. Going from a BMW to this was like going from cheetah to rhino lol, but I learned pretty fast I can't merge into highway traffic like I used too.  But truly no big deal. Gas mileage is consistent 26mpg.


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## deadheadskier (May 11, 2016)

Interesting on the brakes. At 124K miles I'm still on my original pads and rotors with my Mazda3 and they perform good as new. Granted, I drive a stick, so I use the transmission for much of my braking.  That said, I keep expecting my mechanic to tell me it's time for new brakes and it hasn't happened yet.


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## yeggous (May 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Interesting on the brakes. At 124K miles I'm still on my original pads and rotors with my Mazda3 and they perform good as new. Granted, I drive a stick, so I use the transmission for much of my braking.  That said, I keep expecting my mechanic to tell me it's time for new brakes and it hasn't happened yet.



Seriously? I change my own pads religiously every year and I average 20-25k per year. I could *maybe* get 50k from the front pads, longer on the rear. But I don't like to push it because regularly changing the pads helps the rest of the brakes last longer. The cost of pads is a small price to pay to keep the brakes fresh. A full set of quality ceramic pads are $60 for my SUV and $75 for my truck. On top of that you'll sometimes seem rebates if you keep and eye out, which can bring the cost down to about $30/vehicle.

Rotors get changed as needed. My SUV seems to eat up rear rotors about every 50k. Fortunately it's only about $50 for a quality pair of rear rotors. The front rotors are still original at 105k, but I'll probably just replace them when I do the rear rotors this summer. That'll set me back another $80 for the front pair. They don't need to be replaced, but I take the attitude that I might as well while I have things apart.


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## Bostonian (May 11, 2016)

What about leasing an Audi Allroad or Q5?  I had a Q5 I traded in at 50k miles with no issues, wanted to get back into a car and now have a 2016 A4 - but it's wicked low to the ground...


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## deadheadskier (May 11, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Seriously?



Yup. I've had similar experiences with other manual transmission cars. 

Outside of driving performance I prefer manuals for the lower maintenance costs.  Transmission issues are much cheaper fixes with a MT as well.


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## JimG. (May 11, 2016)

yeggous said:


> I don't get why Subaru has such a cult following.



Because I have owned 5 and all have been great values and very reliable. My wife and kids drive them. The 11 Legacy is mine. Always treated right if I had an issue. Personal experience over 20 years of Subi ownership trumps any consumer test.

Maybe you guys just have sh*tty luck.


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## Cannonball (May 11, 2016)

frapcap said:


> Has the 2014 had any issues since?
> 
> My 2015 Impreza with 6k on the clock is scheduled for a new engine. Since mile 1, it has consumed approximately 2.5 quarts of oil per 3,000 miles. The oil consumption test didn't take long to determine that someone is seriously wrong with the engine. My guess is that they're going to send the small block back to the manufacturer and test/try to diagnose what is causing their equipment to not operate so spectacularly.



The 2014 has been fine since.  Sounds like you have the exact issue she had.  The frustrating part is that it is clearly a well known problem, yet the dealers and Subaru HQ pretend that it isn't.

The same is true with my starter issue.  From day one (new car) it wasn't starting properly.  I had it back to the dealer SIX times.  Each time they made a diagnosis that ranged from "it's normal" to "we made a minor adjustment".  Then one day I was in a random store parking lot cranking the engine furiously to no avail.  A random guy walked over to me, introduced himself as a mechanic at a different Subaru dealer, and told me it was a well-known problem that Subaru had yet to confess to.  Three weeks later Subaru HQ officially recognized the problem and I got my starter replaced. I got no acknowledgement of the extensive time and aggravation I had spent going back-and-forth to the dealer for a problem they pretended not to understand.


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## Cannonball (May 11, 2016)

JimG. said:


> Maybe you guys just have sh*tty luck.



More likely that you just have really GOOD luck.  Considering that the issue is big enough to result in a couple of class-action lawsuits and a recall, it's not just a couple of people with bad luck.


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## Cannonball (May 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be interested to hear the class action lawsuit results.
> 
> Does it involve the head gasket?  As far as I'm concerned, pretty much every Subaru owner who has paid to have a head gasket repaired should get a refund. It sounds like the problem still persists.  That's a $2k fix. When a problem is that common, it is a design flaw.  Head gasket replacement is an extremely rare issue with all other brands. It's not routine maintenance.  How Subaru has gotten away with defrauding their customers over that issue for all these years blows my mind.



"The excessive oil consumption problem appears to be with "unanticipated wear of the oil control piston rings as the root cause of the oil consumption defect." - See more at: http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-sued-over-excessive-oil-consumption-your-car-list#sthash.37sqsKKa.dpuf"


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## yeggous (May 11, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Yup. I've had similar experiences with other manual transmission cars.
> 
> Outside of driving performance I prefer manuals for the lower maintenance costs.  Transmission issues are much cheaper fixes with a MT as well.



You must do a lot more open highway driving where you're not using the brakes. Commuting in stop and go traffic is a bitch of the brakes.


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## deadheadskier (May 11, 2016)

yeggous said:


> You must do a lot more open highway driving where you're not using the brakes. Commuting in stop and go traffic is a bitch of the brakes.



A lot of a highway yes, but two days a week on average in Boston driving all over town. 3-4 days a week in Mass in general in heavy traffic.   When driving in bumper to bumper if you know how to run the gears, you barely touch the breaks.


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## Tin (May 11, 2016)

JimG. said:


> Because I have owned 5 and all have been great values and very reliable. My wife and kids drive them. The 11 Legacy is mine. Always treated right if I had an issue. Personal experience over 20 years of Subi ownership trumps any consumer test.
> 
> Maybe you guys just have sh*tty luck.




You might have had better odds winning Powerball than hitting four good Subis in a row like that. That is impressive. Never even one of those damn head gaskets? 

Currently on month three of waiting for the dealership to get parts for the passenger airbag replacement. Glad we have more than one car and don't have kids.


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## billski (May 11, 2016)

Scruffy said:


> Bill, can you elaborate on why the jeep ( and what model jeep?)  didn't make your short list after your wife reminded you you'll need to keep the thing for 10 years? Reliability? Cost of maintenance? MPG? Resale value?  Just curious, not starting anything. I'm in the market for a new ski vehicle myself soon and found this thread useful.



It was mostly because Jeeps  have been off roading for so long they've got the design mastered.  Frankly, what I realized is what I want is a small SUV that I can live with on the highway, though I'd rather be playing back country.   I play now, no more working at building things.  Hauling much more than my backpack or skis would be more than I want.   My first love (first car( was a subaru and I loved it.  I looked at a lot of vehicles and have knocked them all out for various reasons.   
Outback - don't want a station wagon look.

  CRV, RAV4  not enough clearance
Santa Fe don't want 3 rows of seats, plus it's too damned expensive
Highlander - too big, 
Ford escape concerned about reliability
Jeep Renegade - reliability, gas mileage
Nissan Rogue - no heated seats SHOW STOPPER
Mitsubishi - 3 rows of seats
Mazda CX5 - close contender - don't like styling, no heated seats
VW tiguan - 18" tires for fire roads?  who are you kidding?
Hyundai = too little ground clearance

I'm pretty much sold on the Subaru Forester.  the damned thing has so much glass, visibility and uptop that it feels like I'm outside.  Love it.  Roof opens way up.  the X-mode features looks like something I could have used last year, and it's getting great reviews.  Best ground clearance in its class, been making awd since the 70s and have it perfected. Decent roof rack arrangement, can get aftermarket gear for skis when I have to carry four skiers (not likely).  Very good gas mileage.  I'm not a hot rodder, and I want to save the planet, so 4 cylinder will work for me.  I've been driving in snow storms since the 60's and with the right tires this will rock.  Fog lights are great for driving in heavy snow.  I like the split seats, I stow my skis inside.  *(don't go there, its religious}. 

Seats are adjustable so you can ride up really high.  Should help me avoid colliding with stumps.  well, maybe...  Seat comfort - I can get used to most anything, I should be OK.  I am going to go up to the Limited trim - that gets me everything I need.   Gonna get some rubber floormats this time too.

I don't need to tow anything so the base engine works for me.

I think the stereo is crappy so I'm going to start by swapping out the factory speakers (don't tell my wife.)  Probably change out the horn to something that doesn't sound like a toy - I wanna drive like a New Yawker


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## crank (May 11, 2016)

I still love my Highlander at 13 years and 243K.  Hoping to keep it for another 60K and will probably replace it with another one.


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## billski (May 11, 2016)

crank said:


> I still love my Highlander at 13 years and 243K.  Hoping to keep it for another 60K and will probably replace it with another one.


You're doing better than me.  I usually do 200K or 10 years, at which time the major repairs start. My wife has had her Sienna for 13 years and 220K.  I say a prayer every day.  

Anyone want to buy a 2006 Audi A6 with 180K?  Needs some lower body work from my off-roadin' adventures.  Sit inside, close the door, you'd think you're driving a new car.  Even got a set of Blizzaks on their own mags with about 4K on them.  Now that's a car that is expensive to repair.  Which explains the need to move on....


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## Edd (May 11, 2016)

billski said:


> Anyone want to buy a 2006 Audi A6 with 180K?  Needs some lower body work from my off-roadin' adventures.  Sit inside, close the door, you'd think you're driving a new car.  Even got a set of Blizzaks on their own mags with about 4K on them.  Now that's a car that is expensive to repair.  Which explains the need to move on....



An Audi with high mileage? I'll take it. How much will you pay me?


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## billski (May 12, 2016)

Edd said:


> An Audi with high mileage? I'll take it. How much will you pay me?


My sentiments exactly!

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


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## gmcunni (May 12, 2016)

billski said:


> CRV, RAV4  not enough clearance
> Santa Fe don't want 3 rows of seats, plus it's too damned expensive
> Highlander - too big,
> Ford escape concerned about reliability
> ...



only 1 vehicle on that list has removable doors and roof.


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## billski (May 12, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> only 1 vehicle on that list has removable doors and roof.



Yep! too much work for me! (I'll take the senior discount please!)

I'm getting ready to call around for services pricing.   I'm hearing $800 for a major (30K miles) service.  True dat?   Do you find your service and or/parts to be reasonably priced?  Looking at Total Cost of Ownership.  Yep, I over analyze, but don't want any surprises.


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## JimG. (May 12, 2016)

Tin said:


> You might have had better odds winning Powerball than hitting four good Subis in a row like that.



5 bud, not 4. I guess we're in meteor strike territory now.

Everyone is replacing airbags, waited 3 weeks for one for my son Peter's Honda Accord (he's a Subi hater too).


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## Edd (May 12, 2016)

I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports and read about cars there and everywhere else constantly before buying my current Subie. Reliability was virtually my #1 factor in the purchasing decision. I'm thinking it was 2009 or so that CR stated that Subaru was the most reliable overall brand. The others in the top 3 were Honda and Toyota. 

If Subaru really is going downhill I'll have to switch brands when the time comes.


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## gmcunni (May 12, 2016)

billski said:


> Yep! too much work for me! (I'll take the senior discount please!)
> 
> I'm getting ready to call around for services pricing.   I'm hearing $800 for a major (30K miles) service.  True dat?   Do you find your service and or/parts to be reasonably priced?  Looking at Total Cost of Ownership.  Yep, I over analyze, but don't want any surprises.



don't know about the major service $$.  TCO is lower than TFO* so i went for the jeep.


*Total Fun of Ownership


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## yeggous (May 12, 2016)

Edd said:


> I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports and read about cars there and everywhere else constantly before buying my current Subie. Reliability was virtually my #1 factor in the purchasing decision. I'm thinking it was 2009 or so that CR stated that Subaru was the most reliable overall brand. The others in the top 3 were Honda and Toyota.
> 
> If Subaru really is going downhill I'll have to switch brands when the time comes.



Did you see that Consumer Reports just sent out their spring survey today? In the automotive section they specifically asked about needing to add oil between oil changes.


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## Edd (May 12, 2016)

You mean in regard to Subaru specifically or all brands?


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## yeggous (May 12, 2016)

Edd said:


> You mean in regard to Subaru specifically or all brands?



All brands. It's a boilerplate form. They already covered this issue next year, and are clearly looking for an update:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm


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## Edd (May 12, 2016)

Man, I feel even more lucky. I don't check my oil, personally but I've never had a warning light for low oil or been warned by mechanics during tune-ups. I'm at 91K.


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## steamboat1 (May 13, 2016)

:-o



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-05-13-10-52-47


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## billski (May 13, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> :-o
> 
> 
> 
> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-05-13-10-52-47



Well, isn't that special!   Glad I've got my eye on a Forester. I read through all the docs. I'll bet all the auto dealers are fuming - they've been told to stop selling them and owners to stop driving them..  Recall 2016 &2017 Legacy and Outback due to a steering column defect.  If you read the details, they expect 30% to be defect free. Which is a nicer way of saying that 70% will have problems!.   Glad ski season is over and that I haven't bought a car yet!   http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...RU&searchCriteria.prod_ids=1991787&submit=Go#


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## yeggous (May 13, 2016)

The most recent J.D. Power initial quality study:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...the-2015-j-d-power-initial-quality-study.html

New results should be out next month.


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## billski (May 13, 2016)

yeggous said:


> The most recent J.D. Power initial quality study:
> http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...the-2015-j-d-power-initial-quality-study.html
> 
> New results should be out next month.


 Thanks but I'm really more interested in long term reliability.  Been looking through Consumer reports.  They have a good sample size.


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## yeggous (May 13, 2016)

It's worth looking at Consumer Report's dependability, J.D. Powers initial quality, and J.D. Powers reliability. All measure different metrics, but all are also important. Incidentally, J.D. Powers has a larger sample size. Since all three measure different metrics, you should think critically about them.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-reports-and-j-d-power-are-so-different/


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## billski (May 13, 2016)

Great point yeg.  Article underscores this.  Initial vs. Long term are appreciated.  Hadn't thought to look at power.  Problem is I'm already fixated on the Forester.  May wait


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## billski (May 13, 2016)

For this recall to shake out to see if anything else comes out


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## deadheadskier (May 13, 2016)

You seem as committed towards the Forester as Tuna was with his chop shop Legacy GT.   

Nothing wrong with that other than like Tuna it wouldn't appear you are soliciting buying advice. More a case of fishing for support in your buying decision.


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## billski (May 13, 2016)

Not really.  I'd appreciate you guys presenting the bad side of things.


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## yeggous (May 13, 2016)

billski said:


> Not really.  I'd appreciate you guys presenting the bad side of things.



I shopped the Forester during the winter and can give you my breakdown of Pros and Cons. In the end I decided against buying it.

Pro:
- respectable all-wheel drive system
- affordable entry point for automated safety features (branded EyeSight: auto braking, adaptive cruise control, etc)
- excellent visibility, easilly the best on the market
- affordable base price
- decent fuel economy (thought that's a low priority at $2 / gallon)
- finally has an okay infotainment system (middle of the road quality)

Cons:
- the EyeSight system is not nearly as good as the competition. It does not work in snow, rain, dust, or direct sunlight. There are much better options on the market. Most are more expensive, but Hyundai offers an excellent affordable alternative.
- well known recurring mechanical problems with Subaru engines (oil consumption and head gaskets)
- too small. I can't fit my skis behind the front seat with the seat back far enough for me to fit. There are numerous larger options.
- fit and finish is cheap

I liked the Outback more, but at that price point I couldn't justify it for many of the same reasons. The quality and size was improved, but there are better options at the same price. I like the Nissan Murano, Hyundai Santa Fe Sport, and Honda Pilot (except for the whole minivan look). I didn't buy any of them though. I went even bigger.


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## billski (May 15, 2016)

Thank Yeg.  What kind of driving do you do.  I want to understand a little more about the criteria you used, as it relates to drivability and suitability to the task?  I recognize the interior issues (looks cheap inside, my wife noted as much.)  I thought that the forester boxer engines were over the oil problems.  I'll need to investigate further.  What did you end up with and why (apart from size?)  Do you take your vehicle  off the asphalt at all?  

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


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## jimk (May 15, 2016)

I never owned a 4wd vehicle before in my life despite being an avid skier for 50 years.  In VA you can almost always get by without 4wd esp if you cherry pick your ski days and avoid the very rare travel days when roads are bad throughout our whole region.  I bought my Outback in 2013 because it presented a no-brainer choice as a decent performing winter vehicle for a first time 4wd owner.  I was also downsizing from 20 years as a minivan owner and it represented a slightly more driver-friendly car, esp for my wife who drives it more than 50% of the time.  I got it because as I near full retirement I expect to get into the mtns more frequently including lots of fabulous East Coast powder days.:flag:


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## Tin (May 15, 2016)

48k 2016-2017 Legacy and Outbacks recalled last week due to "steering failure". What the hell is happening to Subaru?


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## xwhaler (May 15, 2016)

My 06 Mazda 3 with 208k on the clock doesn't burn a drop of oil.  Been running 5w20 synthetic I've changed myself since new.   Amazing that Subaru still has these issues when no other manufacturer has them.


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## steamboat1 (May 15, 2016)

Tin said:


> 48k 2016-2017 Legacy and Outbacks recalled last week due to "steering failure". What the hell is happening to Subaru?


Driverless cars, way ahead of the competition.


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## yeggous (May 16, 2016)

billski said:


> Thank Yeg.  What kind of driving do you do.  I want to understand a little more about the criteria you used, as it relates to drivability and suitability to the task?  I recognize the interior issues (looks cheap inside, my wife noted as much.)  I thought that the forester boxer engines were over the oil problems.  I'll need to investigate further.  What did you end up with and why (apart from size?)  Do you take your vehicle  off the asphalt at all?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk



There's no real way of knowing if the oil problems are over yet. You'll note that the Consumer Reports review of this car specifically notes them as a risk. The 2014 Forester was part of the class action settlement on the issue. Whether the problem goes away for the 2015 likely remains to be seen.

In my most recent shopping trip I ended up settling on a 2016 Chevy Silverado (1500 Double Cab with the LT trim and All-Star package). I came to the realization that I was likely looking at a $30k price tag to get a moderately priced SUV with my requirements. I'd rather pay a bit more money and get a much more substantial and well built vehicle. The cab on my truck is large is quite spacious, and I still have a 6.5 foot bed with a rolling hard cover to store all my gear. I get a combined 18 mpg, compared to about 21 mpg from most crossovers.

When I was looking at crossovers, three came to the top of my list:
1) Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (the lower priced, 2-row version of the Santa Fe)
2) Nissan Murano
3) Honda Pilot

The deal breaker on the Pilot is that it looks exactly like a minivan. My Y chromosome would never allow it.

The Santa Fe Sport is probably my next vehicle purchase. We currently own a 2011 Santa Fe and have overwhelmingly positive experiences with it. At 105k miles, the only repairs have been tires, brake pads / rotors, and a belt. Hyundai consistently has above average reliability  rankings over the last several years, and it comes with a standard 100k powertrain warranty. That is very hard to beat.

I don't often go off paved surfaces, but will sometimes end up on some of the forest service roads in New Hampshire. For example, early and late ski season I'll often take Dolly Copp road home from Wildcat or head up to Mountain Pond in Jackson for a hike. I've never had any issues with either the Silverado or Santa Fe. Most modern AWD systems are good, with some glaring exceptions. The Toyota Rav4 is garbage. Honda CRV's drive system is not great (it's better than the Rav-4 but likewise is designed for hauling the kids to soccer practice). The Honda Pilot's system is much better.

I don't have much experience with the Ford and GM AWD systems. They are both designed to be full dynamic. I'd expect them to perform similar to the Honda CRV.

The Nissan Murano also has a pretty good AWD system. Like the Hyundai / Kia system, it supports a locking 50/50 torque split. Both systems perform comparably and should be plenty for you. While torque split doesn't including an automatically locking differential like a true 4x4, it guarantees you have power to the rear wheels when you want it. Instead of a locking differential, they use braking from the electronic traction control to limit slip.

If you've got the cash, Audi and Accura make excellent AWD systems. I just personally don't see spending that kind of money on a car.

If this type is system doesn't work for you, then you really should not be looking at a crossover. In that case it's time to start talking about a true 4x4, which is another whole discussion. Ford and Chevy trucks are excellent choices. Dodge makes smooth ride, but I worry about Fiat-Chrysler's reliability. Toyota 4-Runner and Tundra are solid but outdated. I just don't understand Jeep. Just like Subaru they have a blindly loyal following despite sub-standard construction and well documented reliability problems.


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## gmcunni (May 16, 2016)

yeggous said:


> The Santa Fe Sport is probably my next vehicle purchase. We currently own a 2011 Santa Fe and have overwhelmingly positive experiences with it. At 105k miles, the only repairs have been tires, brake pads / rotors, and a belt. Hyundai consistently has above average reliability  rankings over the last several years, and it comes with a standard 100k powertrain warranty. That is very hard to beat.


i drove a Santa Fe Sport in a recent Colorado blizzard and was impressed with how it handled the snow.


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## Tin (May 16, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Driverless cars, way ahead of the competition.



LOL. They cannot get head gaskets right or correctly measure a piston ring.  You had your own stranded, timing belt failure last year.


Volvo  and others are already testing them on public European roads this fall and city driving next year.


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## WWF-VT (May 17, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be interested to hear the class action lawsuit results.
> 
> Does it involve the head gasket?  As far as I'm concerned, pretty much every Subaru owner who has paid to have a head gasket repaired should get a refund. It sounds like the problem still persists.  That's a $2k fix. When a problem is that common, it is a design flaw.  Head gasket replacement is an extremely rare issue with all other brands. It's not routine maintenance.  How Subaru has gotten away with defrauding their customers over that issue for all these years blows my mind.



I am always amazed at how Subaru owners praise the reliability and cost of maintenance but still wind up with a $2K bill at around 100K miles to replace the head gasket. My wife has a 2007 Outback wagon and had to have that repair.


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## Edd (May 17, 2016)

WWF-VT said:


> I am always amazed at how Subaru owners praise the reliability and cost of maintenance but still wind up with a $2K bill at around 100K miles to replace the head gasket. My wife has a 2007 Outback wagon and had to have that repair.



I praise it. They've been very reliable for me. I've never replaced a head gasket and I've been driving 2 Subarus since 2001. Over the past two decades, they've generally been reliable vehicles. I feel like this isn't mind blowing info. If you want to list off less reliable brands over the same time period, that won't be difficult, and there will be a lot of them.


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## tree_skier (May 20, 2016)

The wife has a 2015 Forester, purchased because of the seat height and comfort (a long story).  Loves the car and seat the bad is road noise at highway speed


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## MEtoVTSkier (May 27, 2016)

billski said:


> Nissan Rogue - no heated seats SHOW STOPPER



Who told you that? They have heated seats...


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## bigbog (May 27, 2016)

Bill,
 If you haven't bought yet...the way to go for tires in the Maine woodlands(and all of northern NE) would be to downsize on the wheelsize IF you can find tires, in that size, with more rugged plies in its tread, to match up in overall diameter. Having a 2nd set of wheels/tires would be a economic and logistic answer I think.
fwiw


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## thebigo (May 31, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> My 06 Mazda 3 with 208k on the clock doesn't burn a drop of oil.  Been running 5w20 synthetic I've changed myself since new.   Amazing that Subaru still has these issues when no other manufacturer has them.



Same situation, my 2006 Nissan with 202K miles has never burned a drop of oil, wife's 2012 forester has burned approx. 1 quart per 1k miles since it was new. We have been shopping to replace the Nissan, wife likes the crosstrek but I refuse to ever buy another Subaru.


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## prsboogie (Jun 2, 2016)

I picked up a Rav4 and love it. My roof box fits well and there is enough storage in the hatch to fit the boot bags. Great milage and it's very stable in weather. I test drove a outback and found the engine extremely noisy. Granted it was a year old with 15K on it but it sounded like a diesel. The 94 I drove was great but this one was super noisy. Anyone else find this?


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## yeggous (Jun 7, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> I picked up a Rav4 and love it. My roof box fits well and there is enough storage in the hatch to fit the boot bags. Great milage and it's very stable in weather. I test drove a outback and found the engine extremely noisy. Granted it was a year old with 15K on it but it sounded like a diesel. The 94 I drove was great but this one was super noisy. Anyone else find this?



How does the AWD system perform? I assume you've watched the Consumer Reports comparison testing?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bigbog (Jun 22, 2016)

Followed what looked like a new Forester yesterday...really looked like a nice vehicle.   Enough clearance for most woods roads..


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## 180 (Jun 22, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> I picked up a Rav4 and love it. My roof box fits well and there is enough storage in the hatch to fit the boot bags. Great milage and it's very stable in weather. I test drove a outback and found the engine extremely noisy. Granted it was a year old with 15K on it but it sounded like a diesel. The 94 I drove was great but this one was super noisy. Anyone else find this?



our 2015 is noisy getting up to speed, but love it otherwise.


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## yeggous (Jun 27, 2016)

Latest crash test results are in for small SUVs. Passenger side small overlap this time. The only vehicle to score Good was the Hyundai Tucson. The Forester did not do well.

http://www.consumerreports.org/suvs...est-on-front-passenger-side-than-driver-side/


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## prsboogie (Jun 27, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Latest crash test results are in for small SUVs. Passenger side small overlap this time. The only vehicle to score Good was the Hyundai Tucson. The Forester did not do well.
> 
> http://www.consumerreports.org/suvs...est-on-front-passenger-side-than-driver-side/



Funny, my wife always accuses me of trying to kill her by turning in front of cars in what she calls too close!LOL


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## steamboat1 (Jun 27, 2016)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/..._do_lesbians_love_outbacks_and_foresters.html


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## yeggous (Jul 15, 2016)

Latest IIHS test results. This time on headlight brightness for small SUVs.

Executive Summary: none were good. The Mazda CX-3 was best, but only on it's highest trim level. Only other acceptable vehicles were the Ford Escape, Honda CR-V and Hyundai Tucson. The honors for worst headlights go to the Honda HR-V. Of relevance to this thread, the Subaru Forester was rated poor.


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## bigbog (Aug 1, 2016)

Swapping in new/different seats takes some planning but can be done.   Most cars/SUVs have been included in the aftermarket brackets/sliders database so it's, as usual, the electronics(ie SRS/seatbelt sensors) that have to be planned.


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## hammer (Aug 8, 2016)

hammer said:


> I still don't get all of the reliability claims on Subarus.  My son has an 09 Impreza (mainly for the AWD) and I have been setting money aside for the inevitable head gasket replacement.  They might be reliable in many areas but I still don't think they have fixed this.


Just confirmed that this issue is not fixed as of the 09 model year.  Son's car is in the shop getting the gaskets done...less than 80K miles.  Good thing is that Subaru is covering the repair cost...goodwill warranty.  Guessing we may not have been as fortunate if the car had more miles on it, but this was just outside of warranty and we did have to ask.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 8, 2016)

Glad they're taking care of you. I was over warranty by about 3k on my old Hyundai and they did the same, but it was for $300 sensor job.  

Son's car just start running hot? What lead you to take it in?


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## billski (Aug 8, 2016)

Pulled the plug on a 2016 last month.  Pretty happy, already been tooling around high clearance required woods roads, gravel and crushed stone.  Downhill works probably better than I can.  I'm pretty utility minded, so most of the things people complain about are lost on me.  As far as the engine goes, the failures seem to be in the minority, so statistically I'm taking my chances, hoping by 2016 it's been remedied..  I do not doubt you guys and your mother have had bad oil/engine problems. There is a class action suit that was recently awarded in favor of the complainants.  You have to go the attorney's website to get the details.


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## hammer (Aug 8, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Glad they're taking care of you. I was over warranty by about 3k on my old Hyundai and they did the same, but it was for $300 sensor job.
> 
> Son's car just start running hot? What lead you to take it in?



It was in for an oil change and there was a check engine light (evap code) that I wanted them to check on.  The car did start using oil but nothing near what would be considered excessive.  No visible leaks where he parks.

Should have it done in a few days and they gave him a loaner as well.

Car also had a few other suspension issues as well so we'll still be paying a bit to get it all fixed up...


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## billski (Aug 8, 2016)

My Audi burned about a quart of oil every 4,000 miles.  I just kept an eye on it and got 180K out of it.


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## jimk (Aug 9, 2016)

billski said:


> Pulled the plug on a 2016 last month.  Pretty happy, already been tooling around high clearance required woods roads, gravel and crushed stone.  Downhill works probably better than I can.  I'm pretty utility minded, so most of the things people complain about are lost on me.  As far as the engine goes, the failures seem to be in the minority, so statistically I'm taking my chances, hoping by 2016 it's been remedied..  I do not doubt you guys and your mother have had bad oil/engine problems. There is a class action suit that was recently awarded in favor of the complainants.  You have to go the attorney's website to get the details.



Pictures or it didn't happen.:razz:


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## billski (Aug 9, 2016)

jimk said:


> Pictures or it didn't happen.:razz:


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 11, 2016)

Should have got the XT 

My 4th gen Legacy GT is now rolling along at 303whp 317wtq at 19psi (although target boost is about 21 so actual numbers a little higher).

Car is such a blast to drive especially after a VF52 turbo swap and pro tune over at BrenTuning. Compression and leakdown test shows the EJ25 engine in perfect health @ 115k miles. Consumes virtually zero oil over the duration of my 3000 mile oil change interval.


Congrats on your Subaru!


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