# how often do you wax



## freebie (Dec 31, 2007)

just curios how often most of you guys get your skis waxed, I try to get mine done about every 10 days out or so, wondering if you think that is enough or if the should be done more often? I usually ski groomers and leftovers in intermediate glades with the occasional powder day in there


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 31, 2007)

So far this season twice in 26 days but Ideally it would be after every session.  I'm just lazy..it's enough to do laundry and bring my ski boots in from my car after skiing..If the snow is fast and refrozen..wax doesn't matter much to me but if it's warm out..or there's new wet snow..it makes a huge difference.  When my skis start creating drag on the flats..that's when I need more wax..so I can glide better.

Does anybody use a rub-on wax that they'd recommend?


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## freebie (Dec 31, 2007)

I've heard that rub ons can be a pain, have to have the ski at room temp, don't last very long, etc, there might be something newer that works better but  I usually just bring em in to the shop at lunch and have them hot wax em, wish I had fresh was this am, would have been nice with 8"


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 31, 2007)

I hot wax after 3 days of hard running


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## wa-loaf (Jan 1, 2008)

I'm going to be waxing once a week for racing.


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2008)

Usually after every ski trip, which is normally 2-3 days of skiing. I do get a season tune, so that makes it much easier. Just drop the skis off on my last day of skiing and pick them up on my first. But even before I started buying season tunes, I used to tune them up myself after each trip. As far as I know, was is not going to hurt your skis :lol:


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## ckofer (Jan 1, 2008)

I tend to use the rub-on wax every time it's not hard-pack. Hot wax: 10-15 trips.

unless this is a personal question....


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## freebie (Jan 1, 2008)

what kind of rub on do you use?


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## koreshot (Jan 1, 2008)

I used to be all into waxing the skis every 3 or so days on the hill.  Then I realized I don't notice the difference, maybe cause my senses are dull, so this year i have been pretty lazy about waxing.


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## andyzee (Jan 1, 2008)

freebie said:


> what kind of rub on do you use?


 

Ok, it's starting to sound personal! :lol:


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## ckofer (Jan 1, 2008)

freebie said:


> what kind of rub on do you use?



I tend to pick up stuff (not that brand-fussy) that comes in dispenser that looks like solid deoderant (too personal??). The softer waxes are probably okay for races but don't seem to last very long.


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## marcski (Jan 1, 2008)

This thread seems to pop up every few months during season.  Years ago, I used to wax every two days on the hill.  We had this great attic in our ski house and there was nothing like spending an hour or so up in the attic after driving up on a friday night with the sweet smell of ski wax (and perhaps some p-tex) burning in the night, while putting down a few cold ones. That was the weekend routine.

But these days, I don't wax (I'm talking my skis here, for you dirty minded people) much. I think unless you're racing or the snow is excessively wet, it doesn't make much of a difference on the terrain that I'm skiing.  If I was racing I'd wax 'em daily.


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## ckofer (Jan 1, 2008)

http://www.guzer.com/videos/bikini_waxing.php

sorry felt I had no choice


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## skibum9995 (Jan 1, 2008)

I try to wax after every day on the hill, but sometimes I don't get to it. I like to keep my edges sharp so I polish them and then wax.


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## hrstrat57 (Jan 1, 2008)

every time out....


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## bvibert (Jan 1, 2008)

I wax whenever the stubble starts growing back...


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## MarkC (Jan 2, 2008)

I will usually wax about every 3-5 days out.  Every other time I wax I will do a full tune (edges, ptex, stone grind if necessary)


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## snowmonster (Jan 2, 2008)

I wax every 3 days on snow. But, if the bases start drying out (i.e., oxidizing), I will wax sooner.


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## skidbump (Jan 2, 2008)

For winter conditions every 3 to 5 days on snow for wax and touch up on edges,ptex when needed. This yr will start to do my own core shots with epoxy.Only send in for stone grind if i really screw up some edges.For spring and slush its every day hot wax over a base of zardoz not wax  and spray silicon when needed thru out the day


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## wa-loaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Waxed tonight. Racing tomorrow, just used some basic all round toko wax I have. I want to pick up some race wax, but that stuff is expensive. :-o


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## Marc (Jan 3, 2008)

After every hour of skiing.


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## X-Linked (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, I think you guys are just into the process of Waxxxing.  I get them done MAYBE every 10 times out.  I never notice a difference at all as PA is mostly Icy anyways.  Usually before each trip on powder though.  But really, when you have a couple pairs of skis it cuts down on the regularity of waxing them.  Been out about 10 times this year, maybe it's time to get em done.

(It's more exciting just to buy new skis every 4 trips.) ha ha, JK


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 3, 2008)

about every 5 times depending on conditions and type of snow i've been skiing on


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## Trekchick (Jan 3, 2008)

freebie said:


> just curios how often most of you guys get your skis waxed, I try to get mine done about every 10 days out or so, wondering if you think that is enough or if the should be done more often? I usually ski groomers and leftovers in intermediate glades with the occasional powder day in there


For east coast/midwest snow and man made snow, especially groomers, I wax nearly every time I go out.  You can tell by the appearance and feel of the bases.

For the bikini line I wax every 4 to 6 weeks 



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Does anybody use a rub-on wax that they'd recommend?


I use this paste and the liquid wax, from Slidewright.

I start with a hard wax to assure that I have a good base wax and then do touch ups with the liquid and/or paste wax to save time, especially when I'm on a trip.  The trick is to either brush or cork the bases when you're done.  Smoooooooth!



One thing that we have against us in the Midwest and East is the granular type of snow which acts somewhat like sand paper and wears off the wax, which then causes base burn.  Powder days are a dream for the bases.  Little abrasion and little chance of needing new wax.


For those who are interested. Here's a video of Doug Coombs with his waxing technique.  Enjoy!

http://www.thesnaz.com/wp-content/up...6/02/qandp.wmv


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## Marc (Jan 3, 2008)

koreshot said:


> I used to be all into waxing the skis every 3 or so days on the hill.  Then I realized I don't notice the difference, maybe cause my senses are dull, so this year i have been pretty lazy about waxing.



Or maybe it's because you're becoming smarter just by hanging around me.  It happens via absorption.  Just a side benefit of being my friend.  I don't even charge for it.



snowmonster said:


> I wax every 3 days on snow. But, if the bases start drying out (i.e., oxidizing), I will wax sooner.



They only oxidize if you expose them to significant amount of x-rays or light them ablaze


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## ckofer (Jan 3, 2008)

Marc said:


> Or maybe it's because you're becoming smarter just by hanging around me.  It happens via absorption.  Just a side benefit of being my friend.  I don't even charge for it.




You did use the term _entropic_ on a ski blog. Wicked smaht.


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## Marc (Jan 3, 2008)

ckofer said:


> You did use the term _entropic_ on a ski blog. Wicked smaht.



It's a disease.  It's called engineering Tourette's.


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## ckofer (Jan 3, 2008)

_*Engineering Tourette's Guy *_on youtube? Good summer project.


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## ckofer (Jan 3, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> For east coast/midwest snow and man made snow, especially groomers, I wax nearly every time I go out.  You can tell by the appearance and feel of the bases.
> 
> For the bikini line I wax every 4 to 6 weeks
> 
> ...



Though I had no luck with the link at the end, that is the best answer so far.


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## o3jeff (Jan 4, 2008)

I probably have 15-20 outings and my skis and will be binging them in in the near future more for refreshing the edges than for the waxing.


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> I probably have 15-20 outings and my skis and will be binging them in in the near future more for refreshing the edges than for the waxing.



 Your poor babies.


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## drjeff (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Your poor babies.



Amen!  The best analogy I've heard about ski bases is that they are like your skin.  They have pores, they like to be moist, and the system works best when it's taken care of!  That doesn't even get into the virtues of a nice edge.

As an aside, as someone whose been taking a file and a waxing iron to my skis for over 20 years now,  I still cringe when I see folks grinding the rails in a park!  That sound of edge to rail metal sends more shivers down my spine than nails to a chalkboard!


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Amen!  The best analogy I've heard about ski bases is that they are like your skin.  They have pores, they like to be moist, and the system works best when it's taken care of!  That doesn't even get into the virtues of a nice edge.
> 
> As an aside, as someone whose been taking a file and a waxing iron to my skis for over 20 years now,  I still cringe when I see folks grinding the rails in a park!  That sound of edge to rail metal sends more shivers down my spine than nails to a chalkboard!


Amen again!
I take care of my skis religiously!!!

The one thing that is different in my thinking is that the bases don't like to be moist, but instead, they like to be carressed. 
Another thing I like to do is clean the bases so the heating and waxing doesn't embed the crud and impurities into the base(s)


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Amen!  The best analogy I've heard about ski bases is that they are like your skin.  They have pores, they like to be moist, and the system works best when it's taken care of!



And think of how much better an analogy it would be if it were true...


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## drjeff (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Amen again!
> I take care of my skis religiously!!!
> 
> The one thing that is different in my thinking is that the bases don't like to be moist, but instead, they like to be carressed.
> Another thing I like to do is clean the bases so the heating and waxing doesn't embed the crud and impurities into the base(s)



I know that my game plan tonight is get to my ski house,  feed/bathe/put the kids to bed, then pop open a beer or 2 and warm up the waxing iron and the files and get the boards ready for what's shaping up to be a GREAT weekend on the hill!


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## severine (Jan 4, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> I probably have 15-20 outings and my skis and will be binging them in in the near future more for refreshing the edges than for the waxing.


I'll admit to being an infrequent waxer. Basically, I wait until I feel a difference.  Unless you're a ski racer or have a mad steezy ski day count, I don't think it makes a huge difference for the vast majority of people whether you wax frequently or not.


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2008)

My ski care routine this year is simple...  I leave my skis in the ski box on top of my car until it's time to use them, then when I'm done skiing they go back in the box...  It's been working well for me so far...

EDIT: Occasionally I'll check the bases for major damage before putting them back in the box at the end of the day...


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2008)

I get the skis tuned once in the beginning and again in the middle of the season. Good enough for my style of skiing.


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## drjeff (Jan 4, 2008)

severine said:


> I'll admit to being an infrequent waxer. Basically, I wait until I feel a difference.  Unless you're a ski racer or have a mad steezy ski day count, I don't think it makes a huge difference for the vast majority of people whether you wax frequently or not.



You'd be suprised.  I bet that I could grab your skis immediately after you take a run, send you to the lodge for 20 odd minutes for a snack and a beverage, put a quick fesh edge and some mid-fluoro all temp wax on your skis, send you back out and you'd notice!  It's not always just the glide down the hill, but also the ease of getting across the base area to the lifts, the run-out back to the lift, and the biggest difference, wet snow performance.  That doesn't even get into what a fresh edge will do for most folks.

I have my wife so "spoiled" now with a freshly tuned pair of skis for her each weekend, that she'll get on my case if I slacked off and didn't tune them, or heaven forbid missed the wax (not an issue since I've been using my all temp stuntwax), or if I didn't detune her edges to where she likes them.


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## tjf67 (Jan 4, 2008)

I apply a generous amount of green wax in the morning and my skiis perform amazing


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

severine said:


> I'll admit to being an infrequent waxer. Basically, I wait until I feel a difference.  Unless you're a ski racer or have a mad steezy ski day count, I don't think it makes a huge difference for the vast majority of people whether you wax frequently or not.


Severine, its more about the longevity of the bases before it becomes necessary to grind than it is about feel.  If you clean your ski bases and keep a good quality coat of wax on them, you'll avoid base burn,which means you will not likely have to do a grind for a looooong time.

I use a stone to touch up burrs on my edges but I dont' tune them thoroughly very often because, IMHO it takes a lot of material off.  Once or twice a year at most for tuning(outside of the basic edge clean up)


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

I've still yet any explain to me exactly what "base burn" is.


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## Paul (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> I've still yet any explain to me exactly what "base burn" is.



Its when the base gets a burn. Sheesh!


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2008)

Paul said:


> Its when the base gets a burn. Sheesh!



BURN!


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> I've still yet any explain to me exactly what "base burn" is.



Ooooof, sorry!
Base burn is when your ski bases have an appearance of being overly dry, and somewhat flakey(not really flakey, but for lack of a better term. )
On a black base, it would almost appear gray-ish, and would be dry/rough to the touch as you rub your hand across the base.
Its caused by the friction/heat that is directly against the bases due to lack of wax.


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## Paul (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Ooooof, sorry!
> Base burn is when your ski bases have an appearance of being overly dry, and somewhat flakey(not really flakey, but for lack of a better term. )
> On a black base, it would almost appear gray-ish, and would be dry/rough to the touch as you rub your hand across the base.
> Its caused by the friction/heat that is directly against the bases due to lack of wax.



Careful there, Trek...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Marc's post may look tempting....


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2008)

Paul said:


> Careful there, Trek...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Too late, she just opened a whole can-o-worms...


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2008)

Paul said:


> Careful there, Trek...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep. He's sure to reply with all sorts of technical mumbojumbo and words like poly-ethyl somethingorother. He may even draw up some sort of diagram...


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

So what exactly, chemically, happens to the polyethylene?  Or is it a strictly mechanical phenomenon?  In which case, the bases would just have lots of small scratches.  I don't see how this could happen as, at least in the case of utlra high molecular weight polyethylene, the material has higher abrasion resistance than stainless steel....


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## wa-loaf (Jan 4, 2008)

I know Marc will talk about base material being stable and what not, but how do you explain that my wifes skis that sat unused for a couple year looked dried out and were definitely concave (and had not been when left in the basement)?


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg said:


> Yep. He's sure to reply with all sorts of technical mumbojumbo and words like poly-ethyl somethingorother. He may even draw up some sort of diagram...



Oh come on, is curiosity really such a bad thing?  We should all strive to become more knowledgeable, which means asking more questions.  And not accepting at face value what wax companies and ski shops tell us, since they're not exactly unbiased sources.


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg said:


> Yep. He's sure to reply with all sorts of technical mumbojumbo and *words like poly-ethyl somethingorother*. He may even draw up some sort of diagram...





Marc said:


> So what exactly, chemically, happens to the *polyethylene*?  Or is it a strictly mechanical phenomenon?  In which case, the bases would just have lots of small scratches.  I don't see how this could happen as, at least in the case of utlra high molecular weight polyethylene, the material has higher abrasion resistance than stainless steel....



So....who's buying me my beer? :beer:


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I know Marc will talk about base material being stable and what not, but how do you explain that my wifes skis that sat unused for a couple year looked dried out and were definitely concave (and had not been when left in the basement)?



I'm not the authority on the subject.  I'd defer to any chemical engineers here, if there's one present.  From what I know of the properties of polyethylene that are free for anyone to read, I rule out what doesn't happen, but it doesn't mean I can explain everything as well.


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> Oh come on, is curiosity really such a bad thing?  We should all strive to become more knowledgeable, which means asking more questions.  And not accepting at face value what wax companies and ski shops tell us, since they're not exactly unbiased sources.



I just glaze over most of what you say on the subject, but I do use your posts to justify my lack of tuning, in my head anyway.  I would never openly admit that I find any of your posts useful...

Crap, I just did... :dunce:


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## Paul (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> Oh come on, is curiosity really such a bad thing?  We should all strive to become more knowledgeable, which means asking more questions.  And not accepting at face value what wax companies and ski shops tell us, since they're not exactly unbiased sources.



This is the part that I absolutely agree with.

However, circumstantial evidence points to the other. Meh... I wax my skis every so often because I like the Zen-like quality of it. I am teh suk 2 much to make a difference anyway.


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

Paul said:


> Careful there, Trek...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





bvibert said:


> Too late, she just opened a whole can-o-worms...


Sorry!  You guys need to warn me earlier.



Marc said:


> So what exactly, chemically, happens to the polyethylene?  Or is it a strictly mechanical phenomenon?  In which case, the bases would just have lots of small scratches.  I don't see how this could happen as, at least in the case of utlra high molecular weight polyethylene, the material has higher abrasion resistance than stainless steel....


Marc. you are welcome to overthink things if you want.  I see it gives you a great deal of pleasure.
 When it comes down to it, I take care of my skis and my practices make me happy.  That's whats important in my house.  You do what you want in your house.



wa-loaf said:


> I know Marc will talk about base material being stable and what not, but how do you explain that my wifes skis that sat unused for a couple year looked dried out and were definitely concave (and had not been when left in the basement)?


Moving along..........
If you put your skis away with any dirt or debris on them, without proper cleaning and storage prep, then the expansion and contraction due to altering temps will allow the dirt to actually embed in the pores of the skis.  This can alter the structure shape.  Basement, attic, dry or damp storage, doesn't matter.  
Marc, another opportunity "overthink opportunity".  Enjoy!


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Sorry!  You guys need to warn me earlier.



Where would the fun in that be??


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg said:


> So....who's buying me my beer? :beer:


I will!


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Sorry!  You guys need to warn me earlier.
> 
> Marc. you are welcome to overthink things if you want.  I see it gives you a great deal of pleasure.
> When it comes down to it, I take care of my skis and my practices make me happy.  That's whats important in my house.  You do what you want in your house.
> ...



Well, the amount of thinking one puts into a certain subject depends on the level of interest and the potential benefits I guess.  It's certainly rare that I'm accused of thinking too much.  And I agree that what you're doing makes you happy, then by all means continue.  I'm trying to educate myself here and also further the discussion so that we all might become more knowledgable.  I can't imagine anyone would think ill of that goal.

If you want me to stop asking questions, then I'll respect your request, but if not, I'm curious to find out where you learned what you know about about ski base material and what you've written so far.  I'm honestly not trying to be an ass, I'm just curious.  I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 4, 2008)

i use TOKO Universal Wax.....i am a fanatic about keeping my gear in good shape (bikes, skis, surfboards etc) Its not that the skis really need to be tuned as much as i do them, its more about the state of mind and satisfaction i get from tuning them...its relaxing...once the wife and kids are asleep, i'll grab a bottle of Cabernet, go down stairs, put on a game in the background and tune for an hour or 2....and i do all my buddies skis as well, i love it!


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> Well, the amount of thinking one puts into a certain subject depends on the level of interest and the potential benefits I guess.  It's certainly rare that I'm accused of thinking too much.  And I agree that what you're doing makes you happy, then by all means continue.  I'm trying to educate myself here and also further the discussion so that we all might become more knowledgable.  I can't imagine anyone would think ill of that goal.
> 
> If you want me to stop asking questions, then I'll respect your request, but if not, I'm curious to find out where you learned what you know about about ski base material and what you've written so far.  I'm honestly not trying to be an ass, I'm just curious.  I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.


Marc, I'm not bothered by the questions.  Not at all.
Where do I get my knowledge?
Some from the beginnings of trial and error.
Some from a friend who worked in a ski shop.
A lot from asking questions, and really paying attention to the shop pros when I took my skis in for work.
Some, but not much from reading ski mags
TONS, from Alpinord (Terry) on Epicski.
He has really amp'ed up the Ski tuning forum area on Epic and is eager to answer questions gallore.  Very knowledgeable.  He is one of the owners of Slidewright.

Ask away!  If I dont know, I'll try to find out!


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## o3jeff (Jan 4, 2008)

Oh well screw taking them for a tune and wax then until someone can post something scientific that it will indeed help the bases in the long run.

This is kinda like debating on when to change the oil in your car....


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> Oh come on, is curiosity really such a bad thing?  We should all strive to become more knowledgeable, which means asking more questions.  And not accepting at face value what wax companies and ski shops tell us, since they're not exactly unbiased sources.


Did you ever spray Pam cooking spray on your sled when you were a kid?
Sometimes fun stuff is just that simple.


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## severine (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Severine, its more about the longevity of the bases before it becomes necessary to grind than it is about feel.  If you clean your ski bases and keep a good quality coat of wax on them, you'll avoid base burn,which means you will not likely have to do a grind for a looooong time.
> 
> I use a stone to touch up burrs on my edges but I dont' tune them thoroughly very often because, IMHO it takes a lot of material off.  Once or twice a year at most for tuning(outside of the basic edge clean up)


At least my tuning frequency isn't in question then.  :lol:  I'll admit that lack of time and space just make it easier to ignore waxing.  Nowhere in our tiny apartment to do it ourselves, and no time to tackle a task like that even if I had space.  (Although I'm sure all my time on AZ doesn't help in the time department .)



Marc said:


> I'm like a three year old, just when you think I've finished asking questions, I'll ask another.


One of the many ways you're like a 3-year-old, Marc. 



Trekchick said:


> Did you ever spray Pam cooking spray on your sled when you were a kid?
> Sometimes fun stuff is just that simple.


Makes me think of that scene in _Christmas Vacation_ when Clark waxes up that saucer.  LOL!  :lol:



o3jeff said:


> Oh well screw taking them for a tune and wax then until someone can post something scientific that it will indeed help the bases in the long run.
> 
> This is kinda like debating on when to change the oil in your car....


I think Brian does that even less often than he has our skis waxed. :roll:  We won't go there....


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

severine said:


> Makes me think of that scene in _Christmas Vacation_ when Clark waxes up that saucer.  LOL!  :lol:....


Exactly!!!
Can you imagine if we'd had these high tech waxes back when we had our sleds as kids? 
Fun Stuff!

Severine, if you want something simple you can do in a small place, look into the paste wax's.
Like the one on Slighwright here
Or the Swix version, which I've used with some success also.

They just smear on and you rub them out with a plastic brush or a scotch pad, and head for the hill.
Quick and easy way to keep the skis sliding between hard wax applications.
A tub of this paste wax goes a loooong way.


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Marc, I'm not bothered by the questions.  Not at all.
> Where do I get my knowledge?
> Some from the beginnings of trial and error.
> Some from a friend who worked in a ski shop.
> ...



That's great if that's enough for you.  I just want my information to come with someone who can explain the "why" as well as the "what."  Trial and error will give you answers when the results are obvious, like which wax glides best under what conditions....

Answers to questions without immediatley discernable results I'd prefer to be answered by someone formally edjucated in the subject.  How do you know polyethylene has pores?  If it is an extremely hydrophobic material, such as it is, how could it absorb and solid paritculate like dirt which is much bigger by several orders of magnitude than a molecule of water?  If PE is nearly 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel (from wikipedia) why would snow roughen it at all? ...Unless you might think steel would be roughened by snow.  I tend to think not.  

Can you tell me exactly what happens to the material when it gets "base burn"?

Why is it necesary to "structure" (aka, sand) ones base and how much difference does it make?  Can anyone quantify it?  Has there been any controlled, neutral testing done to support anyone's opinion on the matter?

I think if people want to wax for better glide, if that matters to them, that's great.  Sharpen the edges for better hold on hard snow and ice?  Makes perfect sense.  Lots of other stuff I read about bases just doesn't make sense.  The materials they use (either UHMWPE or HDPE) are not mystery materials.  We know a lot about PE and its properties.  At least in the case of HDPE, it's the same stuff milk jugs are made from (in case anyone didn't know).

UHMWPE is used to make sails, spectra (dyneema), bullet proof vests, artificial joints, etc.  It has a coefficient of friction on par with teflon, 15 times more abrasion resistant than carbon steel, almost twice as abrasion resistant as stainless steel.  Extremely non reactive.  Self lubricating and wear resistant.  Not especially resistant to high temperature.  Resistant to stress cracking.  It's a thermoplastic meaning it can melt to liquid and return to solid with experiencing a chemical change.  Typically sheets like those made for ski bases are sintered.

It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....


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## wa-loaf (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> At least in the case of HDPE, it's the same stuff milk jugs are made from (in case anyone didn't know).



Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases? :-o


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## Marc (Jan 4, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases? :-o



You could if your bases were HDPE, absolutely.  Most skis that are not extemely cheap use UHMWPE, for which P-tex is just a trade name.  I don't know if HDPE would bond to UHMWPE or not... it might actually.  From what I gather, the difference between the two is a result of the lenght of the polyethylene chains, and the chains are held to each other by the Van der Walls forces (weak, molecule to molecule bonds, the reason water has surface tension and aligns as a crystal when a solid).  It probably just wouldn't be as strong as using UHMWPE.


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## jack97 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....



It gives me something to do in the basement.... you know get away from the love ones  


I agree with Mark on this one, I've been keeping my rock skis in the car all season long...up to the warmest days in spring, no waxing just keeping the edges sharp, no problems yet. My hidden motive is to ruin those skis and start another for the rocks but those suckers are tuff.


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> That's great if that's enough for you.  I just want my information to come with someone who can explain the "why" as well as the "what."  Trial and error will give you answers when the results are obvious, like which wax glides best under what conditions.............................
> 
> It just would seem to make sense to me to, since its only application is not for the base of a ski, learn about the material from more sources than those in the ski industry, especially those who stand to benefit by pedalling potentially inaccurate or nonsensical information....


Well, alrighty then!
If that floats your boat, then you just go right ahead and study the quantum physics of ski materials and the infinite possibilities of things that can effect the bases.  While you're getting a crease in your forehead, I'll be getting some slope time.


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## jack97 (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> ....study the quantum physics of ski materials and the infinite possibilities of things that can effect the bases.



Aw come on.... its the study of quantum mechanics in the discipline of material science. Without this knowledge we would not be talking to each other on cheap pcs. 

BTW, gotta to do something while  I'm scanning snow reports.


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## Trekchick (Jan 4, 2008)

jack97 said:


> Aw come on.... its the study of quantum mechanics in the discipline of material science. Without this knowledge we would not be talking to each other on cheap pcs.
> 
> BTW, gotta to do something while  I'm scanning snow reports.


Okay.
Meanwhile, I'll be putting pam cooking spray on my flying saucer and see you at the bottom.  Well maybe not because I'm not waiting for you!


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## ckofer (Jan 4, 2008)

Marc said:


> I've still yet any explain to me exactly what "base burn" is.



It's like rug burn but without a lover.


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## awf170 (Jan 4, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> While you're getting a crease in your forehead, I'll be getting some slope time.



Actually you will tuning your skis.


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## Trekchick (Jan 6, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Does that mean I can melt down milk jugs instead of buying p-tex to repair my bases? :-o


Okay here's what I found out!!!
Its not Milk Jugs at all............Its recycled sewer pipe.


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## severine (Jan 6, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Okay here's what I found out!!!
> Its not Milk Jugs at all............Its recycled sewer pipe.


Well that puts a whole new perspective on it! 

Thinking I may need to pick up some of that wax after all... Skis were a bit sluggish last time I was out.   Then again, I have no idea where I can do this...  Dropping them off for a tune and wax is just so much easier.


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## Trekchick (Jan 7, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Okay here's what I found out!!!
> Its not Milk Jugs at all............Its recycled sewer pipe.





severine said:


> Well that puts a whole new perspective on it!
> 
> Thinking I may need to pick up some of that wax after all... Skis were a bit sluggish last time I was out.   Then again, I have no idea where I can do this...  Dropping them off for a tune and wax is just so much easier.


Makes perfect sense, No?
That's why I ski like sh*#!!!:lol:

As for waxing your own skis.  Its fairly easy, once you do it, you'll wonder why you didn't do it yourself long ago.
IF you pick up paste wax, you can just put it on, let it dry and use a scotch pad to buff it out.  takes minimal time and space.
If you use hard wax, use and old iron, melt wax dripping on your bases, run an iron over the bases until its spread evenly.  Make sure the iron is hot enough to melt the wax but not so hot that you feel heat through the ski.  
when the wax is fairly cool, scrape with a plastic scraper and buff out with a scotch pad.
It will cost you $2. instead of $25 to wax your own.


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## severine (Jan 7, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> Makes perfect sense, No?
> That's why I ski like sh*#!!!:lol:


Yeah, that's my excuse and I'm sticking by it! :lol:

Not that I mind slowing down too much since speed is my nemesis right now... but it's time.  I'll probably pick up a rub on wax since that's more likely to actually get done.

This does explain why Brian was trying to steal my iron one time, though...


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## ctenidae (Jan 7, 2008)

I wax at the beginnig of the season, sometime in the middle, before big trips, and at the end for storage. really, it's more for teh Zen aspect than anything else, also a good time to just check all the bits and make sure a binding's not hanging on by a single screw or something. Recently learned the joys of P-tex. Much easier than I feared, and after last season's conditions and pine cone bashing in Italy, my bases needed some help.

Even if HDPE bonds to UMHPEWQHASNMAKS or whatever, I don't think burning milk jugs will give the desired effect. In my experience, burning the plastic from milk jugs or soda bottles is a lot sootier than a P-tex candle, and soot is not your friend when trying to get things to stick.


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## jack97 (Jan 7, 2008)

severine said:


> I'll probably pick up a rub on wax since that's more likely to actually get done.
> 
> This does explain why Brian was trying to steal my iron one time, though...




What's going on? My wife trained me years ago to tune all the skis.... 


If you're (or the sig other) going to tune skis, get the right type of iron, it should have no wholes, a basic flat surface. Some have adjustable heat so that you can figure out the right temp to melt the wax without overheating the base. You can get this stuff on the net as well as other supplies. Best time to get it is at the end of the season. 

I only wax at the of the season and I will slop over the edges to prevent rust.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 7, 2008)

I wax my wife's skis after every outing and forego the scraping and brushing to keep the edges from rusting.  (She gets out about 5 or 6 times a year) My skis I wax every few outings, unless I'm expecting slop, then it's more often than not.  As a side note, I'm not convinced that waxing protects my bases or makes them perform better.  I just like tuning my skis and do it more out of hobby than anything.  Any performance or preservation benefits it just gravy to me.  Sharpening, on the other hand, has obvious benefits to me.


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## Trekchick (Jan 7, 2008)

jack97 said:


> *
> If you're (or the sig other) going to tune skis, get the right type of iron, it should have no wholes, a basic flat surface.* Some have adjustable heat so that you can figure out the right temp to melt the wax without overheating the base. You can get this stuff on the net as well as other supplies. Best time to get it is at the end of the season.
> 
> I only wax at the of the season and I will slop over the edges to prevent rust.



While I agree with the "no holes" thing, we started our waxing by using our old iron, which had holes.  It got us by until we got a regular waxing iron which has a slight waffle pattern in it.
Here is a page that shows a variety of irons.
http://www.ski-racing.com/irons.html

Honestly I got my iron from a fellow bear on Epic.  I don't think you can get a better deal than what he has to offer. 
This is not the iron I got, but its a great deal and a nice iron.
http://www.racewax.com/servlet/the-11/Ski,-snowboard,-base,-wax,/Detail


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> While I agree with the "no holes" thing, we started our waxing by using our old iron, which had holes.  It got us by until we got a regular waxing iron which has a slight waffle pattern in it.
> Here is a page that shows a variety of irons.
> http://www.ski-racing.com/irons.html
> 
> ...




Trek, having been a veteran of both the non ski specific waxing iron and the ski specific waxing iron myself,  I bet that you'd agree with me that the ski specific waxing iron is a HUGE improvement over the "generic iron" for waxing.  I was AMAZED the first time I used a real ski waxing iron.

I can't wait to use mine on the new boards I picked up today(I "had" to update my beloved 3 season old Atomic B5 Metrons due to a little incident I had with a rock/stump/who knows what type of solid object I hit in the trees Saturday that ripped a piece of edge out  )


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 8, 2008)

hey DRJEFF.....that happened to my Metrons, so I shipped em back to Atomic ($20 for shipping) and they sent me a brand new pair!!!


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## drjeff (Jan 8, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> hey DRJEFF.....that happened to my Metrons, so I shipped em back to Atomic ($20 for shipping) and they sent me a brand new pair!!!




I was hoping to be able to do that Quattro, but mine were a bit to "seasoned" to be covered by their warrentee   Anyway, the shop where I bought them had a pair of last years in my size still, and since the only difference between last year's B5 and this years B5 (or any year's B5 for that matter) is the top skin graphics, I picked those up at a very nice price.  For about 3 runs of demo'ing I briefly contemplated getting a pair of the Nomad Crimson's, but while the Crimson's are a very nice ski, they're not quite the B5 interms of how wild a short turn they can make


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