# Gnarliest trails



## gwags (Aug 24, 2006)

Lots of talk about what are the steeper/scarier parts of trails in the NE on the Whiteface/Passaconaway thread.

What are people's votes?

I have done Katahdin (only in fall) and No. Tripyramid slide in winter and many others, but I think that the west side of Saddleback in the Adirondacks is sketchier than those, although none are really scary without snow/ice.  That I can think of, it's my vote.


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## Greg (Aug 24, 2006)

Six Husband's always seems to get mentioned as a very difficult trail. I've descended it several times, and only under dry conditions in the summer, but didn't find it to be that difficult. Madison Gulf has a few steep sections where long stretches are required. Never done Huntington Ravine.


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## salida (Aug 24, 2006)

Hunginton... Madison Gulf, as Greg said.

The Abol on Khatahdin, Trypyramid like you said... Great Gulf Trail puts the G in gnar, not nearly as much use as some others have.


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## MichaelJ (Aug 25, 2006)

I had a few moments on the Coe slide where I felt like I wasn't going to be able to take another step without slipping. It's the smooth slabs that bother me, the rough or talus stuff (S. Slide Tripyramid, Owl's Head) I enjoy.


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## from_the_NEK (Aug 25, 2006)

When I last hiked Huntington ravine, there were people roping up in a few sections. Not a good trail to hike DOWN under any conditions and only good to hike UP in dry conditions.


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## sledhaulingmedic (Aug 29, 2006)

Several routes in Madison Gulf

Tripyramids have been a while (maybe they're worse than I remember).

I also recall a trail on the East (maybe Northeast) side of Mooselauke, perhaps from Kinsman Notch.  I think it was part of the AT.  I recall being on there a little too late in the day... (and it was wet:blink: )


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## David Metsky (Aug 30, 2006)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> I also recall a trail on the East (maybe Northeast) side of Mooselauke, perhaps from Kinsman Notch.  I think it was part of the AT.  I recall being on there a little too late in the day... (and it was wet:blink: )



That's Beaver Brook, I was just up it this weekend.  It's steep, but nothing like the slide or headwall trails.

Any list would include Huntington, King Ravine, Great Gully, Great Gulf, Six Husbands, North Tripyramid, Chemin de Dames, Castle Ravine, Madison Gulf, and Sphinx.  

 -dave-


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## Mike P. (Aug 30, 2006)

Don't have much experience in the Great Gulf or King Ravine yet I'd agree with Dave's list for NH.  Some trails have interesting spots on the Osceola trail in the Chimney, my guess is that more casual hikers take the detour.

In ADK's you have to include the Trap Dike on Colden, I did the Great Range 11 years ago & thought Saddleback would be worse if you were 5'9" or shorter, descending it after a night of rain was okay in July.

Knife's Edge if wet & windy (in those conditions many I guess would apply) I have not done Cathedral on Katahdin but they have had a few fatalities on the trail I'm thinking that should be on the list too.  I've slipped & slid about 15-20 feet on those wet slabs on the Coe slide before, I'll vouch for those, it wasn't even raining.  Luckily my pack took some of the landing & the spot I stopped at was not too hard.


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## MichaelJ (Aug 31, 2006)

The Osceola chimney I found *easier* than the bypass. And a lot more fun, too. I felt perfectly safe the whole time - with tons of handholds, it was like going up a jungle gym.

The winter's a different story. That chimney gets filled with an ice flow (floe?) and you have to take the bypass, and I slipped and fell down it last winter. There wasn't enough snow coverage for crampons, but enough to make it a slippy-slide.

In a month I'll be trying out the Link Trail. We'll see if it lives up to its reputation.


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## ChileMass (Aug 31, 2006)

The Link is supposed to be really rough betwen the Caps Ridge Trail and the Castles.  Better north of that according to the big book.  I'll be interested in your assessment.....


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## Mike P. (Aug 31, 2006)

Michael, I have not heard that the Link is not tough (steep, exposed)  but tedious & root infested so that it is not enjoyable.

I'm pretty sure Farmer Bob has been on it & maybe Dave M. also.


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## MichaelJ (Sep 1, 2006)

Hey - gnarled roots make it gnarly, right?
:-?


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## David Metsky (Sep 1, 2006)

The Link from Castle Ravine to Caps Ridge, Cornice from Castilated to Caps, and, um, what's that bypass around Madison that takes you over to Osgood Ridge?  Those three trails will chew you up and spit you out.  Very rough on the body, no descertable footbed, lots of roots in the wooded sections, rocks on all sections.

But no exposure.  Enjoy.  :blink: 

 -dave-


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## ChileMass (Sep 1, 2006)

David Metsky said:


> ....and, um, what's that bypass around Madison that takes you over to Osgood Ridge?.......



Dave - is that the Parapet trail?  The descriptions in WMG sound like a terrific viewpoint, but tough to get there.....


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## Mike P. (Sep 1, 2006)

I believe that is the Parapet that goes around the Madison (& GG) Gulf side of Madison to bypass the Madison summit, can't see the view being better than the one from the top. 

There is also the upper section of Pine Link that goes around Madison on the other side that in places (like near jct. with Watson Path) is nice but I understand it's a mass of rocks (okay it is the Northern Presidentials)  but as long as the weather is not bad, going over Madison is easier than going around it.


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## David Metsky (Sep 1, 2006)

Parapet is the trail.  Avoid at all costs.  Pine link isn't great, but it's not that bad.

 -dave-


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## salida (Sep 2, 2006)

I concur dont get on Parapet.  Anyone ever hike deers leap in Vermont?


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## MichaelJ (Sep 5, 2006)

I've looked up at it many times. How bad?


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## salida (Sep 5, 2006)

Well you can walk around the backside, but going up the front it is a mix of rock climbing, and hiking.  I feel safe without ropes and I think most people would.  It is an awesome little hike!


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## feldmrschl (Oct 13, 2006)

I see the usual suspects got mentioned.  The trickiest trail experience for me was going up Flume Slide in autumn after a previous day of rain.  The rock face was covered with wet, slick leaves.  Beautiful to look at.  Treacherous to climb.


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## salida (Oct 13, 2006)

I had a terrible experience with flume slide and a dog recently....  it is a very treacherous climb in the wrong conditions or without opposable thumbs


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## SilentCal (Oct 15, 2006)

The Link section that is mentioned is brutal.   Be prepared to add extra time on your hike.     I just when up Six Husbands a week ago.    Treadway is getting torn up a bit in spots due to the their being no trail adopter to do routine stuff.   However,  it's a awesome ascent route that requires a little bit of thinking in two spots.   Someone with a fear of heights may have trouble in some areas.   Scenery though is 5-star from this trail.


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## gwags (Oct 16, 2006)

After starting this thread, 2 weeks ago, I hiked Huntington and I have to say it beats the other stuff I have done.  I look forward to checking out the other stuff people have mentioned.  Thanks.


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## feldmrschl (Oct 17, 2006)

Huntington is indeed quite gnarly.  The old 24th edition of the White Mountain Guide starts the trail description with:

"Caution: This is the most difficult trail in the White Mountains."

However, I've thoroughly enjoyed myself the two times I've climbed up there.


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## ChileMass (Oct 17, 2006)

David Metzky mentioned the Great Gully trail before, and based on the description in the WMG, I really want to try it.  Anyone got any personal experience with it?


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## thetrailboss (Oct 17, 2006)

Tripyramid North Slide was just not to my liking.  A bit too steep and exposed.  King Ravine is the only other thing that really threw me a loop....that trail I just got lost in the basin of the ravine...


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## feldmrschl (Oct 18, 2006)

thetrailboss said:


> Tripyramid North Slide was just not to my liking.  A bit too steep and exposed.  King Ravine is the only other thing that really threw me a loop....that trail I just got lost in the basin of the ravine...



I didn't mind the Slide so much, but that was probably b/c I had just had the creepiest moment I've ever encountered hiking.

I was hiking solo and was in the greenery at the point where the trail curves at its northernmost point.  Knowing that the slide was coming up, I decided to take a rest and have a snack.  Well, the foliage in the area really closes in on the trail and, while I was resting, I had a sense of something watching me from the woods.  Meanwhile, there were no birds around, the air was deathly still and visibility into the surrounding woods was minimal.

So, I did what any red-blooded American he-man would do.  I hurriedly packed my snack and bolted for the slide.  Once I hit the slide, I scrambled like a man possessed and didn't stop until I about halfway up.


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## David Metsky (Oct 18, 2006)

The King Ravine trail Subway goes over, under, and around many massive boulders.  It's a great scramble if you like scrambles, lots of places to explore.  The Elevated route avoids the rock field.  The Ice Caves loop is similar to the Subway.  In addition to the headwall, that's the biggest draw of King Ravine to me.

Great Gully is much more wild, but not terribly difficult.  In places it feels more like a route than a trail, with more loose and unconsoldiated rocks.  There's one tricky place where you have to get around this overhanging rock; some folks take their packs off for this.

Another "minor" trail that people should try is Ice Gulch, north of Rt 2 in Randolph.  Great scrambling and ice until August.  For a more serious version of that type of terrain, Mahoosuc Notch is the classic.  It's not called "The Hardest Mile on the AT" for nothing.

 -dave-


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## from_the_NEK (Oct 18, 2006)

> *feldmrschl Wrote: *
> I didn't mind the Slide so much, but that was probably b/c I had just had the creepiest moment I've ever encountered hiking.
> 
> I was hiking solo and was in the greenery at the point where the trail curves at its northernmost point. Knowing that the slide was coming up, I decided to take a rest and have a snack. Well, the foliage in the area really closes in on the trail and, while I was resting, I had a sense of something watching me from the woods. Meanwhile, there were no birds around, the air was deathly still and visibility into the surrounding woods was minimal.
> ...



Maybe something was watching you...very closely...


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## Mike P. (Oct 18, 2006)

Wait a minute, no he-man would admit to being scared, even on the www,  Have you ever stopped for directions too?

OR

No wonder I like stopping where the views are good, nothing can sneak up on you!

Have done & likely Huntington, the Slides on the Tri's & Flume Slide, Hopefully in the next year or two I can find my way up 6H, Great Gulf, Great Gully, KR, Castle Ravine & someday M-Notch


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## FridayHiker (Nov 7, 2006)

Our kids are at the age where they like the scramble hikes, but they're also a bit short so they need a butt-boost at times.  They did the Tripyramid North Slide a few weeks ago and loved it; we came down Scaur Ridge instead of the South Slide since we had biked up to the trailhead and Scaur Ridge made for a shorter walk back to the bikes.  We'll surely be hitting most of the other trails mentioned during future summers, hopefully sooner rather than later as I find that the older I get, the more I get a sense of vertigo when I hike the slide or scramble trails.  I'd put the North Slide on the list, but not Flume Slide, even when wet (as it was the last time I was up it).  

I've done the Caps Ridge to Castle portion of the Link twice.  The first time was about 17 years ago, and I found it treacherous, as per the AMC description and the opinions here, and I said "never again!".  The second time was last fall.  My husband, who hadn't been along on the first hike, included it on a dayhike plan.  I rolled my eyes and told him I'd really rather not, but he persisted and I conceded.  Funny thing was that we BOTH found it to be much easier than I had recalled, and he was actually giving me a bit of guff for having told him it was difficult.  I didn't find the roots or rocks to be that bad, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  We averaged over 2.5 mph on it, which is only a bit slower than we normally average on the flats.


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## ChileMass (Nov 7, 2006)

FridayHiker said:


> Our kids are at the age where they like the scramble hikes, but they're also a bit short so they need a butt-boost at times.  They did the Tripyramid North Slide a few weeks ago and loved it; we came down Scaur Ridge instead of the South Slide since we had biked up to the trailhead and Scaur Ridge made for a shorter walk back to the bikes.  We'll surely be hitting most of the other trails mentioned during future summers, hopefully sooner rather than later as I find that the older I get, the more I get a sense of vertigo when I hike the slide or scramble trails.  I'd put the North Slide on the list, but not Flume Slide, even when wet (as it was the last time I was up it).
> 
> I've done the Caps Ridge to Castle portion of the Link twice.  The first time was about 17 years ago, and I found it treacherous, as per the AMC description and the opinions here, and I said "never again!".  The second time was last fall.  My husband, who hadn't been along on the first hike, included it on a dayhike plan.  I rolled my eyes and told him I'd really rather not, but he persisted and I conceded.  Funny thing was that we BOTH found it to be much easier than I had recalled, and he was actually giving me a bit of guff for having told him it was difficult.  I didn't find the roots or rocks to be that bad, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  We averaged over 2.5 mph on it, which is only a bit slower than we normally average on the flats.




Thanks for the info on the Link.  I have to try it sometime soon.  Glad to hear you brought your kids up Caps Ridge - there are a few scrambles, but in my opinion nothing that kids shouldn't be able to handle with a little adult supervision.  I get very frustrated at the resistance I get from the kids in my camping group and their Moms.  These kids are all 10-15, not 5 years old.  They can handle it, again - with some supervision and guidance.


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## ChileMass (Nov 7, 2006)

FridayHiker said:


> My kids did Caps Ridge with no problem (and no butt boosting :smile: ) when they were seven.  They did need an occasional push on Tripyramid, and based on that I might wait another year or two before we do something like Huntington.  They're nine now, but as I said, are very short.
> 
> The stuff they HATE is stuff like Liberty -- very boring for kids until you get to the top.
> 
> ETA:  Boring for adults, too, imho.




Just a green tunnel?  That's the description in the WMG and for Greenleaf Trail, too.  Sometimes those are fun, especially on a rainy day, but on a sunny day you need a trail with occasional views to keep you motivated.  Caps Ridge is great for that - it gets above treeline in only a mile.


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## FridayHiker (Nov 8, 2006)

I don't mind Greenleaf.  Eagle Pass breaks it up and makes it seem short and interesting.


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## David Metsky (Nov 8, 2006)

FridayHiker said:


> we came down Scaur Ridge instead of the South Slide since we had biked up to the trailhead and Scaur Ridge made for a shorter walk back to the bikes.


I don't know if it matters to you, but if you used bikes on the Livermore Road you can't count those peaks for your 4000'er list application.  You'll have to do them again without bikes.  This is only an issue if you plan on getting a patch from the 4000'er committee, something I never bothered to do.  Livermore road counts as a trail and so has to be hiked, skied, or snowshoed.  That's just the way the rules are written.

 -dave-


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## Mike P. (Nov 8, 2006)

Question for you Dave:

I understand the road & bike thing (if you can't drive it,, you can't bike it so you have to walk Livermore but in summer you could park there, ride your bike on Tripoli Road to the Osceola trailhead, do both Osceolas, descend to Greeeley Pond trail & walk back to your car.)

In my example, can I do that in late November or December when the gate is closed on Tripoli Road.  (assuming it was passable by bike,  If you X-C ski it, it counts, if not passable by bike.)


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## FridayHiker (Nov 8, 2006)

David Metsky said:


> I don't know if it matters to you, but if you used bikes on the Livermore Road you can't count those peaks for your 4000'er list application.  You'll have to do them again without bikes.  This is only an issue if you plan on getting a patch from the 4000'er committee, something I never bothered to do.  Livermore road counts as a trail and so has to be hiked, skied, or snowshoed.  That's just the way the rules are written.
> 
> -dave-



Thanks, Dave; I'm aware of that, which is why we didn't bother scooting over to bag Middle.  If the kids decide they want to complete the list, we'll go back there again and probably just do a Downes or Sabbaday or Pine Bend loop from the Kanc.

When we first started hiking, I used the possibility of earning a patch as an incentive to graduate them to the bigger hikes, so I am keeping track for them of the hikes we've properly completed under the FTF rules, but they seem less interested in the patch aspect than they were a couple of years ago, which is fine.  If they want to do a bike/hike day and don't care that they don't get "credit" for whatever they hike, that's fine by me.  I only care that they like what they're doing.


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## David Metsky (Nov 9, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> In my example, can I do that in late November or December when the gate is closed on Tripoli Road.  (assuming it was passable by bike,  If you X-C ski it, it counts, if not passable by bike.)


If you can't legally drive the road on the day of the hike, you can't use a bike.  So no, if the road is gated the day you are there, you have to travel by foot.



			
				FridayHiker said:
			
		

> I only care that they like what they're doing.


That, my friend, is an excellent attitude.  And altitude.

 -dave-


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## MichaelJ (Nov 9, 2006)

David Metsky said:


> If you can't legally drive the road on the day of the hike, you can't use a bike.  So no, if the road is gated the day you are there, you have to travel by foot.



If Tripoli Road were gated in the middle but the end gates were open, could you bike up to the height-of-land gate, do the hike, then go around the gate and bike down the other side?


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## David Metsky (Nov 9, 2006)

MichaelJ said:


> If Tripoli Road were gated in the middle but the end gates were open, could you bike up to the height-of-land gate, do the hike, then go around the gate and bike down the other side?


But what if you crossed the International Date Line?


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## salida (Nov 9, 2006)

Honestly, you don't hike them for the patch, you hike them for yourself.  If you want to ride a bike, then friggin ride the thing!  If you can ski it, then you should be able to bike it in my opinion!


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## MichaelJ (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm just teasing Dave - I've long since finished the 48.


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## David Metsky (Nov 9, 2006)

salida said:


> Honestly, you don't hike them for the patch,


Some people do hike them for the patch.  If you want that, it's a nice incentive.  We all hike our own hike.  If it becomes a lifetime passion, they'll be back plenty of times anyway.


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## gwags (Nov 10, 2006)

Has anyone climbed Mr. D'Iberville/Caubvik?  That sounds like left coast gnar on the right coast.


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