# Tips for Skiing Tight Lines



## MadMadWorld (Jan 29, 2013)

Lately, I have been having to work a lot on my technique in tight trees and other narrow chutes. What advice do you guys have?

When I ski, I try to look at only the spaces in between the trees and when I get in a tight spot I find that it's important to always keep your skis moving, even if it's just a side slip as odd as that might sound.


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## witch hobble (Jan 29, 2013)

Get in touch with your chi.


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## HD333 (Jan 29, 2013)

My very untechnical suggestion is simply commit to your line and trust it. Any hesitation/doubt and I almost always have to bail wether it be on a board, skis, or MTB.


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## St. Bear (Jan 29, 2013)

I tend to ski in a wide stance and have difficult keeping my skis together, so by extension I have difficulty in tight lines.  On fast groomers, I try to practice keeping my skis together, but I don't really get out enough to reinforce it.

Doesn't really address the original post, but whatever.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 29, 2013)

HD333 said:


> My very untechnical suggestion is simply commit to your line and trust it. Any hesitation/doubt and I almost always have to bail wether it be on a board, skis, or MTB.



+1. Trust yourself to get the job done. if you question on whether not you make the line, I usually find that I struggle with the line.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## Puck it (Jan 29, 2013)

Avoid the trees is what I do.  It seems to work for the most part.

It is just moguls with trees.

Bill is in the mail!!!


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 29, 2013)

Skis tight, knees bent, look ahead and look where you want to go (not at the trees).

I suspect you are a better skier than myself.. and that these tips are fairly obvious for advanced/expert skiers.

At some level it's mostly a mental thing, and just like any sport which deals with low levels of objective probability, you can gain a lot by totally committing and having no doubt in your mind that you are about to achieve exactly what you intend.

Certain situations, like if you need to hit a couple pillows on the way down to a tree gap, and the pillows are a little staggered before you get there.. I guess it doesn't hurt to plan your line so that you have a straight shot through the gap.

Steep narrow gullies... if you are comfortable alternating between straight lining it and hockey-slide to jump turns.. you can really just ski them any way you want to have the most fun. Certain terrain for me isn't about how fast I get down it, but how much variation and unconventional skiing I can cram into a certain run.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 29, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> Skis tight, knees bent, look ahead and look where you want to go (not at the trees).
> 
> I suspect you are a better skier than myself.. and that these tips are fairly obvious for advanced/expert skiers.
> 
> At some level it's mostly a mental thing, and just like any sport which deals with low levels of objective probability, you can gain a lot by totally committing and having no doubt in your mind that you are about to achieve exactly what you intend.



No matter what level a skier is at, the best way to learn new skills is by getting feedback from other people.

My skiing has definitely been slacking lately and anything I can try to in order to get better is a good thing so thank you.


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## KevinF (Jan 29, 2013)

In tight lines, the less that turns, the better.  If everything turns when you turn (i.e., head, shoulders, hips, feet), then you have a lot of mass to get moving the other way.  If you can get just your feet turning and your legs rotating in their hip sockets (i.e., torso facing downhill), then it's pretty easy to get going the other way.  It's basically a problem of economy of motion; nothing moves that doesn't have to.

Basically, learn how to do this:





Be prepared to practice.  A _lot_.


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## Scruffy (Jan 29, 2013)

KevinF said:


> *In tight lines, the less that turns, the better.  If everything turns when you turn (i.e., head, shoulders, hips, feet), then you have a lot of mass to get moving the other way.  If you can get just your feet turning* and your legs rotating in their hip sockets (i.e., torso facing downhill), then it's pretty easy to get going the other way.  It's basically a problem of economy of motion; nothing moves that doesn't have to.
> 
> Basically, learn how to do this:
> 
> ...



I agree with your words bolded above, but that video is showing rotary turns on a flat snow surface. Those turns might work in tight trees if you had  blower POW over a hard base.  If your in deep chutter snow in the tight trees, that may not be your best move, you could easily catch an edge and whack a tree.


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## snowmonster (Jan 29, 2013)

Aside from everything that's been said here, keep your weight forward. Once you fall into the back seat, your skis will shoot forward and you'll be in for the ride. Plot your line then execute. And, most importantly, keep both skis on the same side as the tree.


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## St. Bear (Jan 29, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> And, most importantly, keep both skis on the same side as the tree.



Interesting.

/scribbles in notebook


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## KevinF (Jan 29, 2013)

Scruffy said:


> I agree with your words bolded above, but that video is showing rotary turns on a flat snow surface. Those turns might work in tight trees if you had  blower POW over a hard base.  If your in deep chutter snow in the tight trees, that may not be your best move, you could easily catch an edge and whack a tree.



Sorry, I was too brief in my initial reply (the hazards of posting while at work...  :sad

The point of learning a pivot slip isn't so much that you'd want to do one in a tight spot.  The point of learning how to do a pivot slip is that it teaches you how to get your skis pointed at the trees on one side and then the trees on the other side -- without your feet moving left/right.  In a perfect pivot slip, _your skis never leave the corridor that they started in_.  If you can do a perfect pivot slip, it's easy to move into "real" turns while maintaining a ski-width corridor.  In fact, watching somebody who can do really good pivot slips, it can be hard to see where pivot slips end and really steery short turns begin.


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## KevinF (Jan 29, 2013)

I should also say that I can't do a pivot slip to save my ass...  But last year I went to my favorite instructor and discussed this very problem (skiing tight lines) and we spent ALL MORNING doing nothing but pivot slips (or at least me trying to).  A little practice went a long ways.


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## BMac (Jan 29, 2013)

Aside from the great ski advice coming from above, when I'm skiing a particularly tight line I pay close attention to my poles and more importantly baskets.  Hooking a basket on a tree can throw you off balance so I'm always envisioning where the tips of my poles are at.  I often throw my hands behind my back when i need to go through a near shoulder-width gap.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 29, 2013)

KevinF said:


> I should also say that I can't do a pivot slip to save my ass...  But last year I went to my favorite instructor and discussed this very problem (skiing tight lines) and we spent ALL MORNING doing nothing but pivot slips (or at least me trying to).  A little practice went a long ways.



Pivot slips are surprisingly difficult to perfect but are very useful in narrow chutes. I'll have to give it a shot


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## bobbutts (Jan 29, 2013)

Maybe repeat some of this terrain that's giving you trouble over and over.  I think some people have trouble improving because they insist on always a different trail/line every single run.  Often this is combined with poor ability to read and react to the terrain, so you end up with defensive skiing and little improvement.


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## kingdom-tele (Jan 29, 2013)

KevinF said:


> In tight lines, the less that turns, the better.  If everything turns when you turn (i.e., head, shoulders, hips, feet), then you have a lot of mass to get moving the other way.  If you can get just your feet turning and your legs rotating in their hip sockets (i.e., torso facing downhill), then it's pretty easy to get going the other way.  It's basically a problem of economy of motion; nothing moves that doesn't have to.
> 
> Basically, learn how to do this:
> 
> ...



wow, that is remarkably poor information.  stable pelvis?

where do people think their pelvic bones are?  that video is demonstrating relatively stable hip joints. the rotation is happening above the pelvis.  Quick turns means quick transition through your posture of choice, it takes dynamic motion of the spine, not less, more instability=quicker turns.

stand on a patch of ice and twist your lower body side to side, you can feel what hip motion alone feels like, what pelvic rotation feels like, where your spine is mobile or not.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 29, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> wow, that is remarkably poor information.  stable pelvis?
> 
> where do people think their pelvic bones are?  that video is demonstrating relatively stable hip joints. the rotation is happening above the pelvis.  Quick turns means quick transition through your posture of choice, it takes dynamic motion of the spine, not less, more instability=quicker turns.
> 
> stand on a patch of ice and twist your lower body side to side, you can feel what hip motion alone feels like, what pelvic rotation feels like, where your spine is mobile or not.



From what I can tell, to perform a pivot slip well, you have to get both skis as flat as possible in the transition true?


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## kingdom-tele (Jan 29, 2013)

otherwise your digging an edge, so yes, flat would make sense to me


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## riverc0il (Jan 29, 2013)

A lot of blah blah blah in this thread. Sorry to call it out but let's be straight up: the only difference between a tight line and an open line is A) the line dictates where you turn as you have few if any options and B) you have no bail option. Tight lines expose fundamental technical flaws, confidence issues, and lack of vision in line choice and dealing with terrain that doesn't allow you to make turns where you want to but rather forces you to make unnatural (to you) turns. How do you get better? First, you need to become better at funky terrain in non-tight lines. Then you take it to the tight. Practice picking a line and sticking with it, forcing your mind and body to not take an easier line, not going off line when you loose your rhthym. Slow it down, work each turn. PRACTICE JUMP TURNS. When a tight line gives you few turn options, turn in the air instead of the snow. Tight and steep chutes require jump turns and tight turns. Practice the tools you need in tight lines out side of those tight lines, take challenging lines and don't pussy out or deviate when things get tough. REPEAT.


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## SIKSKIER (Jan 30, 2013)

+1


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## kingdom-tele (Jan 30, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> PRACTICE JUMP TURNS.



doesn't get much more unstable than throwing yourself in the air. 

be interesting to watch someone jump and twist with a stable pelvis


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> doesn't get much more unstable than throwing yourself in the air.
> 
> be interesting to watch someone jump and twist with a stable pelvis



I thought the pivot turn and jump turn were two mutually exclusive things. The end result is the same but the body actions are different. Just my two cents.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> A lot of blah blah blah in this thread. Sorry to call it out but let's be straight up: the only difference between a tight line and an open line is A) the line dictates where you turn as you have few if any options and B) you have no bail option. Tight lines expose fundamental technical flaws, confidence issues, and lack of vision in line choice and dealing with terrain that doesn't allow you to make turns where you want to but rather forces you to make unnatural (to you) turns. How do you get better? First, you need to become better at funky terrain in non-tight lines. Then you take it to the tight. Practice picking a line and sticking with it, forcing your mind and body to not take an easier line, not going off line when you loose your rhthym. Slow it down, work each turn. PRACTICE JUMP TURNS. When a tight line gives you few turn options, turn in the air instead of the snow. Tight and steep chutes require jump turns and tight turns. Practice the tools you need in tight lines out side of those tight lines, take challenging lines and don't pussy out or deviate when things get tough. REPEAT.



I think for me it's been more of a conditioning thing. Lines that I have skied in the past a million times have kicked my ass this year. Thanks for the advice though.


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## kingdom-tele (Jan 30, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> I thought the pivot turn and jump turn were two mutually exclusive things. The end result is the same but the body actions are different. Just my two cents.




truth is no movement is the same as another. there will be redundancy though is the muscles that perform both the pivot and the jump turn. the pivot is the slower jump turn, slow down to sort out our inner conflicts with the movement plan.  its funny, you can see even in the demo video which direction the model moves more efficiently.  quick turn efficiency=less trunk/spine muscle tension.


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## Cheese (Jan 30, 2013)

Great advice and supporting video Kevin.  Watching the video the only thing I would add is to be a bit more diligent about shoulder and hand position.  Especially the second skier rotates the shoulders too much and then drops the uphill hand.  This can lead to leaning back and also will increase the amount of time for transition from one turn to the next.  One fix could be to tap the thumbs together after the pole plant.  This helps assure that shoulders are square across the hill, hands are in front and hopefully the weight is forward like it belongs.

Steve's advice is also sound.  Just because a black or double black groomer is wide doesn't mean you need to use all of it.  Head over to the side and practices quick turns on the side, ridge or even over the edge between the trail, woods and snow making equipment.  Linking jump turns on steeps is pretty unforgiving so the more practice you can get where it's not required, the safer you'll learn.


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## Puck it (Jan 30, 2013)

My advice is just turn and avoid the trees at all costs. It works for me.


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## C-Rex (Jan 30, 2013)

I think your ability to view the line properly is huge.  As was said before, looking at where you want to go and not at obstacles is very important.  The body follows the head and the head follows the eyes.  You also have to look far enough ahead of you to give yourself time to process the information.  I find when I'm having a hard time it's because I'm not looking far enough ahead.  You have to trust yourself to negotiate turns that you spotted 2 or three turns before the one your are currently spotting....if that makes sense.  

I also find that if I'm having a hard time riding a certain line the way I'd like to, I go find a harder one and ride that a few times.  Even if I'm riding it like a noob, I give it my best and then go back to the original line, and I usually find that I have much more confidence.  Sometimes it's just about perspective.


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## Cheese (Jan 30, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> I thought the pivot turn and jump turn were two mutually exclusive things. The end result is the same but the body actions are different. Just my two cents.



I'd say the only difference between the two is the edge angle of the skis and of course their application.  A pivot turn is basically multiple skidding hockey stops that will be performed on intermediate terrain.  A jump turn should be an immediate stop (no skidding).

  In the narrow chute example pivot turns would be linked to proceed down through an intermediate chute.  If anything goes wrong, fall and reset.  The jump turn will also accomplish the turn in the expert chute but more importantly it is your self arrest.  Even if the jump turn didn't go exactly as planned and you wind up sliding slightly or on a hip, those edges need to be hard in the snow to prevent a dangerous slide.


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## Scruffy (Jan 30, 2013)

oh criminy !! you guys are too literal, you pick posts apart for what is both said and what is not said. 

Of course it depends on a lot of variables as to what turn you will use, I think that has to go without saying if your even thinking of skiing tight tree lines or chutes. These variables are not limited to: snow pack conditions (i.e. blower pow and breakable crust require different turn techniques ), line, steepness, other geological aspects (rocks), chute or couloir width, tree spacing, run out, your own energy level that day,  etc... 

There is no one answer. The OP is looking for tips, each one tip is not meant to be the "be all" answer for every situation. 
You need to have a lot of tools in your bag.


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## C-Rex (Jan 30, 2013)

Scruffy said:


> oh criminy !! you guys are too literal, you pick posts apart for what is both said and what is not said.
> 
> Of course it depends on a lot of variables as to what turn you will use, I think that has to go without saying if your even thinking of skiing tight tree lines or chutes. These variables are not limited to: snow pack conditions (i.e. blower pow and breakable crust require different turn techniques ), line, steepness, other geological aspects (rocks), chute or couloir width, tree spacing, run out, your own energy level that day, etc...
> 
> ...



Well said!  :smash:


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 30, 2013)

Jump turns down tight steeps is the most fun way to ski. I don't think it's a requirement to full stop each jump turn... depends on your comfort level.

I think skiing unconventional and steep terrain it's less about rules and more about how you like to ski and how much you want to push your comfort zone.

There's no reason why taking narrow steeps in a combination of jump turns, smears, tacking several bumps in a line, another smear into in tight line between some trees is any better or worse than another combination of techniques.

For most of us we are only being judged in terms of style points by ourselves anyway.


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## timm (Jan 30, 2013)

Maybe helpful for you or not (and may make sense or not) but something I like to do to practice tight lines is take a groomed trail and early in the day when the groomer tracks are fresh and distinguishable, practice staying within one track width. 

Since most actual tight line situations aren't going to be straight down the whole way, I'll do that in combination with looking ahead and planning a line that is stay in track one until this point in the trail, then switch to track two or three (or whatever) and back and forth at different points. This has allowed me to practice on everything from steep black trails to when I am just putzing around on a blue -- also helps you keep your turn time down and maintain good habits on trails where you otherwise might get sloppy because you can get away with it.


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## jack97 (Jan 30, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think for me it's been more of a conditioning thing. Lines that I have skied in the past a million times have kicked my ass this year.



IMO, new ski technology and groomer technology has made skiers soft. Its easy on the body to carve on the groomers all day with the new skis. And with the demand for groomers, its almost hard to find natural trails. 

Look at the jump turn vid.... i think I see a hint of up-unweighting, a no no by todays standard. Yet, when I see someone rocking it old school, they can handle crud and bumps.


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## Puck it (Jan 30, 2013)

New school is great for laying railroads tracks and mandatory GS's, but old school keeps the skis from having independent minds. They each have their place in the world.


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## jack97 (Jan 30, 2013)

Puck it said:


> New school is great for laying railroads tracks and mandatory GS's



Neither is great for making tight lines.


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## riverc0il (Jan 30, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> doesn't get much more unstable than throwing yourself in the air.
> 
> be interesting to watch someone jump and twist with a stable pelvis


I feel very much in control during jump turns. More stable than trying to ski over mixed terrain in a tight line with questions snow conditions and variable mounds and bumps. Or for something super steep, how would you recommend skiing something in the 40-50* range without jump turns? Do you have a more stable turn to offer? Maybe unstable as you call it but as long as it is well executed, it is the most controlled type of turn you can execute when footing is suspect, the lines are narrow, and the pitch is steep.


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## kingdom-tele (Jan 31, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> I feel very much in control during jump turns. More stable than trying to ski over mixed terrain in a tight line with questions snow conditions and variable mounds and bumps. Or for something super steep, how would you recommend skiing something in the 40-50* range without jump turns? Do you have a more stable turn to offer? Maybe unstable as you call it but as long as it is well executed, it is the most controlled type of turn you can execute when footing is suspect, the lines are narrow, and the pitch is steep.



your misinterpreting the comment riv. the instability I am referring to is with regard to the stability of our spine and "core", not the turn or terrain management.  the video is educating people to try to remain stable, which is misguided advice, I get the direction they are trying to go, the stability is occurring much higher though, like mid thoracic level, it seems like people might be better served to feel where they can become more unstable and figure out their own comfort levels and how they move. drills simply create invariants of more complex motions, why not practice spinal motions too. I don't teach skiing, maybe they do.

jump turns are fun, but if you think about how we do those, the ability to unlock/control your spinal segments is the key feature, the fluidity of the the compression, release, and compression cycle relies on our ability to load the muscle, tissue, etc, its elastic, not bone (well, it is too, but not the same way), if your stable like they are reinforcing in that video, no chance


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## crank (Jan 31, 2013)

Been visiting this thread and finally decided to weigh in.  I know, big whoop.  Here's the thing, for tight chutes or any kind of sketchy situation a good skier will have a bag to tricks or tools that work for him in that situation.  In a tight chute, Staircase Glade at Jay Peak for example, if needed I would be more inclined to go to the jump turn than the pivot slip.  In fact I think pivot slips are more dangerous than worthwhile.  Why?  Because the conditions you will almost certainly encounter in said tight chute will not be smooth or groomed.  Better to remove for skis from that surface and whip 'em around then release your edges and swivel because there are a lot of nasty things out there that can stop that swivel in mid swiv.  IMO they are something that instructors made up to have something to teach or to drill on.  Fine because the do teach edge release and steering a flat ski.

Hey whatever gets you through the chute... for me, I have learned to focus on what I need to do and where I need to turn rather than on what will  happen if I don't make a turn and get blown out of the line.  Sounds simple, but it took me years to master my fears.


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## Cheese (Jan 31, 2013)

crank said:


> Hey whatever gets you through the chute... for me, I have learned to focus on what I need to do and where I need to turn rather than on what will  happen if I don't make a turn and get blown out of the line.  Sounds simple, but it took me years to master my fears.



The only reason I mention edge angles and self arrest is it's nice to have a backup plan.  For me, it's stop first and go once I know everything worked.  It's really easy (for me anyway) to release the edges or preform another jump once I know I'm good.  Keep in mind the feedback received that I'm safe is often very quick and it might not even appear that I had an opportunity to call it quits.

An exception might be waterfalls where the initial landing may just be a take-off point for the next jump turn.  In that case usually there's a plan for two jump turns in a row and an evaluation of what will be done if the second take-off point breaks loose, has a buried obstacle or doesn't go as planned.

Truth is, I'm very sensitive to self arrest.  I haven't had a problem but sadly I've watched a half dozen deadly slides that could have ended horribly.  I never expected any of these expert skiers not to realize they needed to set an edge or else so I'm oversensitive about planning the _stop_ first and the _continue on_ only after they're safe.

Yes, it's condition dependent.  If it's a chute that empties out into a bowl, by all means turn however you wish as the slide will end humorously.  If the chute ends in trees or cliffs out, just do yourself a favor and stop first and continue on as a secondary priority.  I'd rather not witness another slide.


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## polski (Jan 31, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> Maybe repeat some of this terrain that's giving you trouble over and over.  I think some people have trouble improving because they insist on always a different trail/line every single run.  Often this is combined with poor ability to read and react to the terrain, so you end up with defensive skiing and little improvement.



Seems to me with pivot turns, first time through the chute you'll be scraping most of the snow away, a disincentive to repeat the same line. Plus the other problems that have been mentioned assuming the chute surface isn't the nice smooth cord in that PSIA vid. 

I like riv's thought on practicing by sticking to the tightest possible on a steep where you actually have some room for error in case you need it.

So much of this is in the head but you need enough chops to have enough confidence.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 31, 2013)

Cheese said:


> The only reason I mention edge angles and self arrest is it's nice to have a backup plan.  For me, it's stop first and go once I know everything worked.  It's really easy (for me anyway) to release the edges or preform another jump once I know I'm good.  Keep in mind the feedback received that I'm safe is often very quick and it might not even appear that I had an opportunity to call it quits.
> 
> An exception might be waterfalls where the initial landing may just be a take-off point for the next jump turn.  In that case usually there's a plan for two jump turns in a row and an evaluation of what will be done if the second take-off point breaks loose, has a buried obstacle or doesn't go as planned.
> 
> ...



 I made the mistake of not holding my edge long enough on a jump turn on White Wall at Kicking Horse. I got spun around and ended up sliding for 29 seconds (based on my helmet cam) at about 20-30 mph. I haven't done the math but I imagine I traveled far. Sliding in a chute that empties out into a bowl isn't always safe either because this area is peppered with cliffs and rocks all throughout. To make it worse, if I had self arrested I would have slid into a pile of week old avalanche debri that was sitting at the bottom of the bowl.


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## Scruffy (Feb 1, 2013)

Cheese said:


> The only reason I mention edge angles and self arrest is it's nice to have a backup plan.  For me, it's stop first and go once I know everything worked.  It's really easy (for me anyway) to release the edges or preform another jump once I know I'm good.  Keep in mind the feedback received that I'm safe is often very quick and it might not even appear that I had an opportunity to call it quits.
> 
> An exception might be waterfalls where the initial landing may just be a take-off point for the next jump turn.  In that case usually there's a plan for two jump turns in a row and an evaluation of what will be done if the second take-off point breaks loose, has a buried obstacle or doesn't go as planned.
> 
> ...



Good advice here.


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## TropicTundR (Feb 1, 2013)

1) Don't forget to breathe and relax
2) Bend at ze knees, slight arch to back
3) Keep weight/head forward

Any quezions?


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## ScottySkis (Feb 2, 2013)

TropicTundR said:


> 1) Don't forget to breathe and relax
> 2) Bend at ze knees, slight arch to back
> 3) Keep weight/head forward
> 
> Any quezions?



Why breath lol?


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## Highway Star (Mar 12, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Lately, I have been having to work a lot on my technique in tight trees and other narrow chutes. What advice do you guys have?
> 
> When I ski, I try to look at only the spaces in between the trees and when I get in a tight spot I find that it's important to always keep your skis moving, even if it's just a side slip as odd as that might sound.



Try to not gape it so hard!


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## dlague (Mar 12, 2014)

I have been wanting to ski tighter glades but have held back not so much because of lack of ability but more from a perspective of getting into a situation that isn't working out so well.  My skis are fairly stiff and do not bend/turn well in tight turns in the glades.  As a result, I have a tendency to ski more open glades and find myself to be a hack in tighter trees.  There is much good information in this thread that have given me ideas.


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## CoolMike (Mar 12, 2014)

I've never skied, I snowboard exclusively, but I'd guess that practicing really tight lines on moguls would be a good way to practice tree and chute skiing.  Try to keep your speed up and carve up every bump.  I do this on my snowboard sometimes to get better at picking good lines through tight glades.


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## moresnow (Mar 12, 2014)

This is all you need to know.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 12, 2014)

This is a great thread!

One thing that hasn't been addressed head on is speed control! Take a trail like "awe chute" at winter park. The chute is so narrow that you can't pivot slip perpendicular to the fall-line, unless you have like 110 cm ski's. How do you control speed there?


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## Edd (Mar 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> This is a great thread!
> 
> One thing that hasn't been addressed head on is speed control! Take a trail like "awe chute" at winter park. The chute is so narrow that you can't pivot slip perpendicular to the fall-line, unless you have like 110 cm ski's. How do you control speed there?




I like to handle these situations by saying "f*** that chute" and skiing away with my tail between my legs.


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## moresnow (Mar 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> This is a great thread!
> 
> One thing that hasn't been addressed head on is speed control! Take a trail like "awe chute" at winter park. The chute is so narrow that you can't pivot slip perpendicular to the fall-line, unless you have like 110 cm ski's. How do you control speed there?



Pizza? :what:


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## Cheese (Mar 13, 2014)

CoolMike said:


> I've never skied, I snowboard exclusively, but I'd guess that practicing really tight lines on moguls would be a good way to practice tree and chute skiing.  Try to keep your speed up and carve up every bump.  I do this on my snowboard sometimes to get better at picking good lines through tight glades.



Meh, tight mogul lines are created by teams and expert skiers.  Although they're good practice for other skills they're a bit too predictable for a tree skiing and chutes.  You're better off to find a gnarly spot off the side of a trail.  Look for somewhere the groomers have leveled an off camber trail or built a bank turn and dip off the back side.  You'll find variable snow conditions, death cookies, small bushes, young trees (flexible and forgiving) and probably terrain that is way off camber.  Practice turns on the snow and lighter weight turns such as jump turns.  Don't go around all the hazards, nail a few of them to get a feel for how they upset balance and what you need to do to recover that balance.  Bottom line, don't look for the easiest way down a trail, look for the hardest and use it to fill your skill bucket.



skiNEwhere said:


> One thing that hasn't been addressed head on is speed control! Take a  trail like "awe chute" at winter park. The chute is so narrow that you  can't pivot slip perpendicular to the fall-line, unless you have like  110 cm ski's. How do you control speed there?



I'm not familiar with the run, but if I were guess I'd say that you aren't supposed to control speed in the chute.  If it's deep powder then you'll get some resistance from the snow. If it's tracked out, you either avoid it or if you know it well enough you can straight the chute and check your speed when the chute empties out.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2014)

I think it's hilarious that Highway Star tried to bring this thread back to rag on me but most people can relate to this. Someone who thinks they can't get better should quit skiing.


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## Puck it (Mar 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think it's hilarious that Highway Star tried to bring this thread back to rag on me but most people can relate to this. Someone who thinks they can't get better should quit skiing.



I SUCK so I will keep skiing!!!!


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2014)

Puck it said:


> I SUCK so I will keep skiing!!!!



Yea I think I will need a lot of practice this weekend


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think it's hilarious that Highway Star tried to bring this thread back to rag on me but most people can relate to this. Someone who thinks they can't get better should quit skiing.


  Had no idea "The Star" revived this.  We (mortals) all suck in comparison so don't feel bad guys.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2014)

Cheese said:


> Meh, tight mogul lines are created by teams and expert skiers.  Although they're good practice for other skills they're a bit too predictable for a tree skiing and chutes.  You're better off to find a gnarly spot off the side of a trail.  Look for somewhere the groomers have leveled an off camber trail or built a bank turn and dip off the back side.  You'll find variable snow conditions, death cookies, small bushes, young trees (flexible and forgiving) and probably terrain that is way off camber.  Practice turns on the snow and lighter weight turns such as jump turns.  Don't go around all the hazards, nail a few of them to get a feel for how they upset balance and what you need to do to recover that balance.  Bottom line, don't look for the easiest way down a trail, look for the hardest and use it to fill your skill bucket.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the run, but if I were guess I'd say that you aren't supposed to control speed in the chute.  If it's deep powder then you'll get some resistance from the snow. If it's tracked out, you either avoid it or if you know it well enough you can straight the chute and check your speed when the chute empties out.



I think it's more about bleeding off speed rather than controlling it in tight lines.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2014)

Edd said:


> I like to handle these situations by saying "f*** that chute" and skiing away with my tail between my legs.



Sometimes that is the best advice!


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 13, 2014)

Edd said:


> I like to handle these situations by saying "f*** that chute" and skiing away with my tail between my legs.



That is good advice, but also can be hardest to follow sometimes!


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 13, 2014)

Does highway star show up to AZ summits? I want to see some of his alleged K steeze.

If not, he needs to and put his money where his mouth is.


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## Cheese (Mar 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think it's more about bleeding off speed rather than controlling it in tight lines.



Agreed.  Bleeding speed in a chute gets pretty risky though.  The reason we drop into the chute is because there's a fresh dump.  After a fresh dump is when there's increased concern about how much weight the snow can support.  Rules like, "don't finish the turn", "don't stop abruptly", "don't cut a horizontal line" and "don't stop in groups" typically come in to play in such locations so bleeding speed has to be done with caution.


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## KevinF (Mar 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> This is a great thread!
> 
> One thing that hasn't been addressed head on is speed control! Take a trail like "awe chute" at winter park. The chute is so narrow that you can't pivot slip perpendicular to the fall-line, unless you have like 110 cm ski's. How do you control speed there?



I'm not familiar with that chute, but a friend of mine was skiing in the Alps once and was following his guide down some chute.  The guide stopped and said "so, this chute keeps getting narrower...  keep turning until you can't turn anymore.  Then sideslip down until it's too narrow to sideslip.  Then go straight.  It opens into a big bowl".

I don't know how long the "go straight" section was, but the idea of straightlining a chute that's too narrow to even think about turning pegs my :blink: meter.


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## KevinF (Mar 13, 2014)

So I looked up the Awe Chute on YouTube:





It doesn't look anything close to narrow to me (at least the line that guy took sure isn't).  I'm sure there are some stupid tight lines in the trees below, but I don't consider "tree skiing" to be "chutes".


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Does highway star show up to AZ summits? I want to see some of his alleged K steeze.
> 
> If not, he needs to and put his money where his mouth is.



If that were the case, they would set new records for attendance.



KevinF said:


> I'm not familiar with that chute, but a friend of mine was skiing in the Alps once and was following his guide down some chute. The guide stopped and said "so, this chute keeps getting narrower... keep turning until you can't turn anymore. Then sideslip down until it's too narrow to sideslip. Then go straight. It opens into a big bowl".
> 
> I don't know how long the "go straight" section was, but the idea of straightlining a chute that's too narrow to even think about turning pegs my :blink: meter.



This is what "tripped" me up and was my original motivation for this thread. It was exactly as you described and I don't think the pictures do it justice. Not being able to turn at all on a steep couloir with rocks on either side of you is a hard fear to overcome. I definitely froze up.







KevinF said:


> So I looked up the Awe Chute on YouTube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I generally don't either but there can sometimes be ravines/gullies in trees that I would consider a chute.


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## Cheese (Mar 13, 2014)

KevinF said:


> So I looked up the Awe Chute on YouTube:
> It doesn't look anything close to narrow to me (at least the line that  guy took sure isn't).  I'm sure there are some stupid tight lines in the  trees below, but I don't consider "tree skiing" to be "chutes".



Agreed, that is not what I'd call a chute.  Plenty of room to turn and  plenty of lumps and bumps to help control speed.  When you do it, make  sure you hit that lil' 10 footer on the right at 1:00.


View attachment 11754

First one through got the powder.  Everyone else is hitting the brakes right before the couloir as evident by the ski tip marks on the left hand wall.  Once stopped there, it's a gentle left turn through and then a decelerating traverse right out to the evergreen that's in view.  Granted I'm sure the camera flattened this out and it's far steeper than it looks but I think I'd ski it the same regardless.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2014)

Cheese said:


> Agreed, that is not what I'd call a chute.  Plenty of room to turn and  plenty of lumps and bumps to help control speed.  When you do it, make  sure you hit that lil' 10 footer on the right at 1:00.
> 
> 
> View attachment 11754
> ...



Actually it's hard to see but the rock juts out slightly but not by much. It's a little further down that it opens up. I'll be the first to admit that I got psyched out though.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 13, 2014)

KevinF said:


> So I looked up the Awe Chute on YouTube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I watched that video and that trail looked completely different from when I skied it. Then I realized, judging by the post date, that that video was during the 10/11 season which WP got almost 400 inches. The first time I skied that was during 11/12, which was about half the amount of snow from the year before. Like most chutes, the leaner the snow year, the rockier they are. Even this year they didn't look that filled it. The issue was that the bowl shape of the snow made it so that if you tried to turn perpendicular, if you didn't hit the rocks, only the very tips of your ski would dig into the snow due to the shape.


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## 56fish (Mar 13, 2014)

CoolMike said:


> I've never skied, I snowboard exclusively, but I'd guess that practicing really tight lines on moguls would be a good way to practice tree and chute skiing.  Try to keep your speed up and carve up every bump.  I do this on my snowboard sometimes to get better at picking good lines through tight glades.


+1 very rarely do I find bump-less tight trees


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