# Sugarloaf Chair -Breaking News-



## Black Phantom (Dec 28, 2010)

Lift derailment. People down. This is bad.

On CNN now.

Prayers to all involved...


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## meff (Dec 28, 2010)

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/28/skiers-fall-from-chairlift-at-maine-resort/?hpt=T2 is the web posting.

Hope everyone is OK and can stay warm as possible while waiting for the evac.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2010)

Any clue what lift it is?


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## Black Phantom (Dec 28, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Any clue what lift it is?



Spillway


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## Katahdin (Dec 28, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Any clue what lift it is?



Looks like Spillway:

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3940


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## dmc (Dec 28, 2010)

they are going on an eyewitness on the chair right now...

The mountain is saying it's going to take an hour to get everyone off.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2010)

That doesn't look good:


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## Trigger (Dec 28, 2010)

im watching now.  Man, that is bad


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## meff (Dec 28, 2010)

Yikes that looks real bad - if its only the 8 minor injuries that they posted over on facebook it will be amazing.


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## wlopowski (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow, that doesn't look good at all from the photo. I remember the Whiffletree quad used to break down all the time when it was new and they would have to evacuate people with ropes but that was more a power problem, not the actual chair line falling. Prayers to all involved, fingers crossed nobody is seriously hurt.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2010)

Yikes.  Terrible.  Prayers and thoughts for those involved.


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## WJenness (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow!

Positive thoughts to all involved!

I wonder how it happened...

-w


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## WJenness (Dec 28, 2010)

Boston's Channel 5 has a story up:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/26299463/detail.html

-w


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2010)

Fingers crossed!  Hope that it wasn't a situation where they we're trying to push things wind wise


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## severine (Dec 28, 2010)

Just saw it on the news. Hope those who are injured are not seriously injured.


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## TheBEast (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow, hope everyone makes it off ok.  Tough to have this kind of thing happen, especially during the holiday week.


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## bobbutts (Dec 28, 2010)

oh no..


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## The Sneak (Dec 28, 2010)

lots of posts on the loaf facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/sugarloaf/posts/139379239453334


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2010)

Watching CNN is almost a free advert for Sugarloaf. Talking about how quick and professional the response was and then they were basically reading the marketing materials (only above tree line lift serviced, vert stats, largest, etc...) and playing a bunch of powder videos from the website.


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## The Sneak (Dec 28, 2010)

loaf was my hill in college and will forever by my favorite/feel like 'home'..but even just yesterday I was saying how it badly needs some $ for updating. hopefully everyone is ok- according to the press release they are. apparently fox news reported fatalities? wtf.


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## tcharron (Dec 28, 2010)

WJenness said:


> Wow!
> 
> Positive thoughts to all involved!
> 
> ...



Reports say it was bouncing, and the rope came off one of the towers.


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## bobbutts (Dec 28, 2010)

http://twitpic.com/3kkxtr/full


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2010)

http://www.bangordailynews.com/story/Outdoors/Injuries-in-ski-lift-accident-at-Maine-resort,162538


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## bigbog (Dec 28, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Watching CNN is almost a free advert for Sugarloaf. Talking about how quick and professional the response was and then they were basically reading the marketing materials (only above tree line lift serviced, vert stats, largest, etc...) and playing a bunch of powder videos from the website.


Ditto....that older double that they chose not to replace, at least ...loaded up..with wind(adding more stress) = the most questionable lift, yet one of the busiest...   With older lifts/cables you're gonna have some wear....the cables' lifetime isn't something I'd wanna stretch..
_Phew_!!!!..., it's quite a drop down to Spillway floor..but images look like deropement(as mentioned by threecy).    Fingers crossed for lessened injuries..


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## Greg (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow. Hope the injured recover quickly.


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## bobbutts (Dec 28, 2010)

bigbog said:


> Ditto....*that friggin' old double that they chose not to replace...loaded up = was a accident waitin' to happen*..imho.
> _Phew_!!!!..., it's quite a drop down to Spillway.
> If anything...new snow might've provided some cushioning, if not groomed under the chairs...  Fingers crossed for lessened injuries.



Don't think we have enough evidence to say that considering how rare this kind of accident is and that there are thousands of similar lifts running safely for the last 30+ years.  Are they all accidents waiting to happen?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 28, 2010)

bigbog said:


> Ditto....that friggin' old double that they chose not to replace...loaded up..with wind(adding more stress) = was a accident waitin' to happen..imho.
> .



I imagine they will be receiving a lot of criticism about the age of the lift and questions will be asked as to why the lift wasn't replaced this summer.  Rumors this past summer were a FG Quad going in next year.

I personally don't necessarily like to point fingers when a tragedy like this happens unless there is obvious blatant maintainance neglect.  

Just a freak and very scary thing that has happened before and will no doubt happen again somewhere someday.


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2010)

Atleast it happened the day AFTER a big storm.  While not much of a cushion, the fluff below was likely better than if it had just been manmade base snow


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## legalskier (Dec 28, 2010)

A.P. update:

_CARRABASSETT VALLEY, Maine (AP) — A chair lift has derailed on Maine's tallest ski mountain in high winds and injured several people who plummeted as far as 30 feet to the slope below.
Officials at the Sugarloaf resort say that there are *about six injuries* from Tuesday's accident and that patrols are evacuating the lift. *Winds were about 40 mph* at the time and about 220 people were on the lift.
Sugarloaf spokesman Ethan Austin says *five chairs came down*. The resort says none of the injuries appear to be life threatening.
The resort says all the injured have been treated and being taken to hospitals.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below._
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...dx6N6A?docId=dafc541b471948628912a444c9ebc35a

My worst nightmare. Prayers to all.


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I imagine they will be receiving a lot of criticism about the age of the lift and questions will be asked as to why the lift wasn't replaced this summer.  Rumors this past summer were a FG Quad going in next year.
> 
> I personally don't necessarily like to point fingers when a tragedy like this happens unless there is obvious blatant maintainance neglect.
> 
> Just a freak and very scary thing that has happened before and will no doubt happen again somewhere someday.



Bingo!  Gotta remember that within the past couple of months, that lift passed inspection, and the lift ops guys, if Sugarloaf's act just like just about every other mountain out there were on the tower before opening today checking things out.  Sometimes freak natural event just happen.  And I'm sure that any of us who have been outside in the Northeast as this storm was going on and now pulling away could easily see as how a gust that is 10 to 20mph stronger than any other COULD very well happen if it was a wind issue


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## puckoach (Dec 28, 2010)

NECN has been full time on this for awhile.

Have had eyewitnesses on phone.  Including someone who was on lift, that took an hour and half to get her down.

Sounds like staff did a great job. 

Lift was installed in 75, renovated in 83.

CNN producer called in from the lift, while he was stuck.  His report says a gust of wind.


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## threecy (Dec 28, 2010)

This sounds like more than a simple deropement...in theory if only one tower deroped, the chairs shouldn't have hit the ground.


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## puckoach (Dec 28, 2010)

A guy 12-15 chairs back, and a very frequent skier there, says he didn't notice anything unusual.  

To him, wind was not at unusual pace for that lift.

He did feel a jerk, but did not see anything wrong.  Was informed by a passing skier.

He was pretty impressed by staff, and others on the lift.  

Sounds like he was not really in sight of the accident site.


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## EOS (Dec 28, 2010)

*Oh wow....*

Hope everyone recovers quickly!


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## threecy (Dec 28, 2010)

If the information we have is correct, the lift in question was installed in 1975 as a double-double (the other lift on the towers installed in 1983).  The towers have hanging sheaves.


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## threecy (Dec 28, 2010)

bobbutts said:


> Don't think we have enough evidence to say that considering how rare this kind of accident is and that there are thousands of similar lifts running safely for the last 30+ years.  Are they all accidents waiting to happen?



Deropements are not at all uncommon.  Deropements resulting in chairs hitting the ground are, though.


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## WJenness (Dec 28, 2010)

Updated press release:

-w




			
				Sugarloaf said:
			
		

> CARRABASSETT VALLEY, MAINE (Tuesday, December 28, 2010) - Today, at approximately 10:30am, the Spillway East Chairlift experienced a rope derailment. At this time, we have 6 injured guests who have been treated and transported from the mountain.
> 
> All available mountain safety personnel are at the scene. The injured parties have been taken off the mountain. Additionally, the remaining guests on the lift have all been successfully evacuated from the lift.
> 
> ...


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## ceo (Dec 28, 2010)

threecy said:


> Deropements are not at all uncommon.  Deropements resulting in chairs hitting the ground are, though.



They said it was the eighth tower, and if I'm counting them on Google Maps correctly, that's the one right before the really long span over Sluice Headwall (and that's what it looks like in the photos). So a deroped line there would be pretty likely to hit the ground, yes.


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## threecy (Dec 28, 2010)

ceo said:


> They said it was the eighth tower, and if I'm counting them on Google Maps correctly, that's the one right before the really long span over Sluice Headwall (and that's what it looks like in the photos). So a deroped line there would be pretty likely to hit the ground, yes.



Sounds like poor or old engineering then...new and refurbished lifts are generally engineered to not allow the chairs to hit the ground with one failure.  Not sure offhand if this is a mandate.


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## Glenn (Dec 28, 2010)

That's tough. I hope everyone is OK.


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## powhunter (Dec 28, 2010)

That sucks...I hope the injured recover quickly, and nothing negative comes out of this

steveo


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## Newpylong (Dec 28, 2010)

no finger pointing. The chairs are inspected by the tramway authority. Tragedy.


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## whitemtn27 (Dec 28, 2010)

Just out of curiosity, what was the logic behind those double-double chairs?  I've only ever seen them there and at Bromley, I think.  Why would a mountain choose one of those instead of a quad, especially given the wind concerns?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2010)

whitemtn27 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what was the logic behind those double-double chairs? I've only ever seen them there and at Bromley, I think. Why would a mountain choose one of those instead of a quad, especially given the wind concerns?


 
That design predates quads, which did not come about until the early 1980's.  The "double-double" design allowed for a lift to have the same start point and different ending points.  

Attitash, Burke (though not completed), Bromley, and Sunday River had similar lifts that were designed and built by Hall or Borvig.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2010)

Looking at some of the pics the snow conditions look great ...


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## wa-loaf (Dec 28, 2010)

Some pics from someone who fell off the chair here:
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32565


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## ceo (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, looking at those photos, I'm wrong: it was the tower before the one at the start of the long span.

I'm not surprised the chairs hit the ground when the cable fell; what surprises me is that it fell in the first place. I thought the sheave trains had cable catchers for just this purpose.


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## snafu (Dec 28, 2010)

That was literally chair-breaking news, hope everyone is okay, from the sound of it no one was seriously hurt and some people have a good story to tell...


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## WJenness (Dec 28, 2010)

From wa-loaf's link:



> ccording to my mom, the crash appeared to be caused by a mechanic who was up on the tower banging on the shieve-train with a hammer or something, which they are known to do from time to time for god knows what reason, but he apparently knocked the rope off the wheels somehow.



Wow...

I can't imagine what it'd feel like to be that guy right now. :-(

-w


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## thetrailboss (Dec 28, 2010)

WJenness said:


> From wa-loaf's link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, I've heard that rumor as well and I doubt that would happen.  It had to be more than that.  That line had a lot of weight on it.


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## riverc0il (Dec 28, 2010)

Bummer. Sounds like it could have been worse and thankfully nothing serious. Perhaps some broken bones? Can't even imagine...

Those old Borvigs with the hanging sheaves whig me me out. I know accidents are rare on any lift and Borvigs probably have no higher incident rate than other lifts (any one have stats on that?) but the Loafs double doubles definitely weird me out. Probably just because they look so different than most other lifts, I don't know. The hanging sheaves thing is what really bugs me about them, regardless if they are safe from an engineering standpoint.


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## bigbob (Dec 28, 2010)

WJenness said:


> From wa-loaf's link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I would be very surprised if he knocked the rope off the sheave wheel, that is under a lot of pressure. I was on that lift a week ago... Aren't there little catches outside of the sheave wheels to catch the rope if it derails?? Or does this lift predate that requirement?
 I know on the Superquad the lift mechanics have to climb the towers to adjust the location of the sheave trains due to tower misalignment caused by the sun on the tower poles sometimes.


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## snowmonster (Dec 28, 2010)

Just got the news. I hope everything ends well both for the skiers and the Loaf. Thank God for powder snow.

Bad news is always worse when you are far away from it. Take care out there, folks.


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## darent (Dec 28, 2010)

just heard, hope everyone is ok. looking for info I googled it. the very first listing was for the Massachusetts-attorneys.com. go fiqure !!


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## Rothski (Dec 28, 2010)

Pasted From the Sugarloaf Today Forum. 

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3940&start=90

"This is what I saw:
Mid-morning, I chose Spillway West based mostly on the fact that there was no lift line (but a little on the fact that I did get stuck on Spillway East yesterday for about 10 minutes after I felt some "lurching" a la King Pine's Bullwheel incident of last March). As I unloaded, I noticed a lift mechanic on a snowmobile creeping slowly past the terminal of Spillway West and, surprisingly, heading right down Spillway. He was driving markedly slowly, eyes glued to the tower sheaves (pulley wheels). I thought nothing of it really, deducing that he must be responding to the issues that I felt yesterday (Monday, 12/27). I skied down Spillway (which, mind you, was amazing, even though it was all crud bumps). By the time I got to the bottom of Spillway, East was stopped, so I jumped on West and headed up again. Obviously, something was up as I had completed the entire trip up West while East remained unmoved. Two towers before the West terminal, that same lift mechanic was clipped in to the top of the tower, straddling the East side "T". He had a large screwdriver out and was using it as a lever to twist some kind of tension screw device which connected to the upward tower sheaves. I'm not an engineer but it seems like he was trying to correct the stresses on the sheaves or their housing. I did not see him hammering anything in my 30 seconds of observation. He was simply twisting a large tensioning screw. There didn't appear to be anymore ice or rime on the lifts, towers, or sheaves than there normally is and, in all honesty, this was a modest windy day for Sugarloaf standards. I unloaded and headed down Winter's Way for another amazing run. Spillway East was still stopped so I headed down to the Superquad. That is when I noticed, from the distance of the base of the mountain to Spillway, a lot of people scattered about the trail, just about where the steeper pitch of Spillway begins. I thought it must just be a team of patrollers beginning evacuations. Little did I know that the sheaves on the same tower I saw the mechanic working on had given way and the line had dropped.
Upon closer inspection, it didn't look like the lift had "derailed", but that those tower sheaves and their housing had either tweaked outward and rotated so that the cable had nowhere to go but off. It took about 1-1.5 hours to get everybody who hadn't fallen off of the lift. I saw at least a half dozen evac. teams helping people off. Everyone from the patrol to mechanics, even ambassadors (wow, they do do something!). As the evacs. were happening, so, too, were the rescues of those hurt in the fall. I saw two sleds go down Spillway with people bundled on them who were clearly hurt. Also, the two Bullwinkle's Bombardier Cats were taking relatives up to the hurt and taking people down from the trail. I think the mountain decided at about 11:30 or so to begin shutting down all lifts (including T-Bar #3) that accessed the Spillway area. At 1:30, Superquad, DRC East and West, and the T-Bar were all running until closing. Spillway West remained shutdown for the remainder of the day. King Pine and Timberline were never opened due to wind. Whiffletree, Snubber, Skidway, and Sawduster were all open during this time. I'm not sure about Bucksaw."


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## TropicTundR (Dec 28, 2010)

*ChairLift Safety*

I was thinking semi-inflatable underseat padding or just having padded bars.  I guessing such features add weight and decrease safety tolerances.  Hope there are no long term injuries and the recent skiing fear mongering doesn't hinder.


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## Cornhead (Dec 28, 2010)

I hope everyone involved is O.K., they are weird lifts.  The support towers look like they are made of wood.  I was intrigued enough to shoot some photos of them when I was there last Spring.


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## ceo (Dec 28, 2010)

They're definitely steel. The white paint is new since I was last there (~7 years ago); they were green at first and then black for many years.

And one of those photos definitely shows a cable catcher on the sheave train. I wonder why it didn't catch the cable.


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## jerryg (Dec 29, 2010)

Thoughts and prayers to those hurt. This was a very unfortunate accident and no speculation about the cause is going to do any good. It could have been any number of things and I hope the tram and elevator safety board can get to the bottom of it. This is a dark day for SL, but luckily no one was killed. The 2 feet of snow might very well have saved lives today.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2010)

jerryg said:


> This was a very unfortunate accident and no speculation about the cause is going to do any good. It could have been any number of things



Yup, agree 100%


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## pepperdawg (Dec 29, 2010)

darent said:


> just heard, hope everyone is ok. looking for info I googled it. the very first listing was for the Massachusetts-attorneys.com. go fiqure !!





heh - gotta love (and hate) technology.


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

Well this is sure turning into the media sh$t show   Practically the lead story on _The Today Show_ this AM, immediately after having to listen to a short bit about some New York City residents b$tching that their streets weren't cleaned less than 12 hours after the storm ended 

One thing though that so many folks fail to grasp, is that more than likely when the haul rope derailed, it's not like the descent of the chairs to the snow below was a total freefall, since the haul rope didn't break, as it "stretched" in the area where the derailment happened, I'd bet that some "slack" was taken up over the remaining thousands of feet of haul rope on both the up and down side of the lift.  If it was a total freefall, I'd bet that in the pictures of the chairs laying in the snow, that you'd be seeing them looking a bit mangled, whereas they appear to be grossly intact


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Well this is sure turning into the media sh$t show  Practically the lead story on the Today this AM, immediately after having to listen to a short bit about some New York City residents b$tching that their streets weren't cleaned less than 12 hours after the storm ended


 
The truth is that it was a complete coincidence that a CNN staff member was on the lift at the time.  Had he not been on the lift it would not have made national news.  If you watch the CNN clips, the lead anchor admits that he is not a skier and has no idea what he is talking about.


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## dmc (Dec 29, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Well this is sure turning into the media sh$t show   Practically the lead story on the Today this AM, immediately after having to listen to a short bit about some New York City residents b$tching that their streets weren't cleaned less than 12 hours after the storm ended



Well - in fairness to NY residents... People are dying in the boro's - emergency vehicles can't make it through.... While Manhattan is clean as a whistle..


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## dmc (Dec 29, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> The truth is that it was a complete coincidence that a CNN staff member was on the lift at the time.  Had he not been on the lift it would not have made national news.  If you watch the CNN clips, the lead anchor admits that he is not a skier and has no idea what he is talking about.



Yeah we we're joking about it last night... Glad no CNN people were on the old quad at Hunter when it had to be evacuated last year..


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

Some more items of interest: 

News video from Maine with some footage of Spillway from the distance: 

http://www.wmtw.com/news/26299543/detail.html

Photo gallery from the Burlington Free Press with some pictures I had not seen: 

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...0101228&Kategori=NEWS05&Lopenr=1228001&Ref=PH

Sugarloaf's 5pm Statement: 



> *Sugarloaf Mountain** Spillway East Incident Update – 5:00 p.m.*
> *State Lift Inspector on site; seventh person reported injured*
> *Carrabassett Valley, Maine (Dec. 28, 2010)* – An inspector from the State of Maine Board of Elevator and Tramway Safety arrived at Sugarloaf this afternoon to conduct an investigation into the causes of today’s accident on the Spillway East chairlift.
> 
> ...


 
Statement on Sugarloaf's FB page in regards to blocking comments that some people were making: 



> Hi, folks –
> 
> You’ve almost certainly heard about the Spillway East lift accident today. First, you should know that that we’re deeply concerned for the six people who were hurt and pray for their rapid recovery. We’re in touch with the families and working closely with them.
> 
> ...


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## Glenn (Dec 29, 2010)

It's amazing how many pics are up of the scene. Just goes to show you how many people carry phones/cameras when they see. 

Again, hope those who were hurt recover quickly. Thank God this happened when there was a good amount of fluff under the lift.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

Win Smith reacts in his "Win's Word:"



> Today there was an unfortunate accident on a lift at Sugarloaf Mountain Resort in Maine. There were some erroneous reports that this accident happened at Sugarbush.
> 
> The past two days following the recent nor'easter were challenging for most ski resorts in the Northeast. Here at Sugarbush, we clocked winds in excess of 70 mph at times.
> 
> ...


 
And *an article from the Burlington Free Press outlining Vermont resort's response to the incident.*


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

dmc said:


> Well - in fairness to NY residents... People are dying in the boro's - emergency vehicles can't make it through.... While Manhattan is clean as a whistle..



I do understand this,  but at the same time have to laugh a bit when I see video clips of folks who appear to be in their 20's and 30's whining about having to actually walk through the snow for a few blocks to get to a different bus stop because the buses can't get down their still snowcovered streets!


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> The truth is that it was a complete coincidence that a CNN staff member was on the lift at the time.  Had he not been on the lift it would not have made national news.  If you watch the CNN clips, the lead anchor admits that he is not a skier and has no idea what he is talking about.



I still think it would be a national story.  The Whistler Gondola incident was recently.  It just might not have hit the press so quickly.


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## dmc (Dec 29, 2010)

I guess what you see on the news depends on whats important to the local broadcast..


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I still think it would be a national story.  The Whistler Gondola incident was recently.  It just might not have hit the press so quickly.



Given that it's a vacation week for so many, there's large amounts of fresh snow over much of the country, and so many folks have recently gotten some new ski/boarding gear, it's definitely a big story to the media. (Plus there's very few of our "wonderfull" elected officials in Washington right now looking to get some camera time this week   :lol:  )


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

This actually is not the first derailment at Sugarloaf.  John Christie recited in his book on Sugarloaf an incident in the 1970's or 1980's when one of the gondola cars came off the line and fell to the ground after leaving the terminal.  The two passengers were not hurt.  Why did it not make news?  The two passengers were a married man and his mistress and he did not want the publicity!


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## wa-loaf (Dec 29, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> This actually is not the first derailment at Sugarloaf.  John Christie recited in his book on Sugarloaf an incident in the 1970's or 1980's when one of the gondola cars came off the line and fell to the ground after leaving the terminal.  The two passengers were not hurt.  Why did it not make news?  The two passengers were a married man and his mistress and he did not want the publicity!



It was the 80's. I thought it was higher up, but that was the end for the gondola. Later opened back up from the mid-station for a few years.


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> This actually is not the first derailment at Sugarloaf.  John Christie recited in his book on Sugarloaf an incident in the 1970's or 1980's when one of the gondola cars came off the line and fell to the ground after leaving the terminal.  The two passengers were not hurt.  Why did it not make news?  The two passengers were a married man and his mistress and he did not want the publicity!



Hmmm, I wonder what they were doing in the Gondola to get the cabin to jump off the haul rope   :lol:  I'm suddenly having flashbacks to the scene in _Hotdog: The Movie_ where Squirrel was getting some action in the Gondola!


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## witch hobble (Dec 29, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Hmmm, I wonder what they were doing in the Gondola to get the cabin to jump off the haul rope   :lol:  I'm suddenly having flashbacks to the scene in _Hotdog: The Movie_ where Squirrel was getting some action in the Gondola!



I wouldn't want to be getting that type of action when the cabin impacts the ground:-o.


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## SteveInCT (Dec 29, 2010)

Ya know, I always hate when lifts have those foot rest things on them because they make the lift cramped and are for people with very short legs. Seeing this makes me hat them more. If these chairs had them, one of two things would have happened: 1) It would have caught into the snow flipping the chair forward. Face plant with a chair on your back? or 2) It would have shot up very quickly. Most people have their arms resting on them. Dislocation? Hit in the jaw or face? 

I don't know. I never liked them before so maybe I am just thinking about it too much.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

SteveInCT said:


> Ya know, I always hate when lifts have those foot rest things on them because they make the lift cramped and are for people with very short legs. Seeing this makes me hat them more. If these chairs had them, one of two things would have happened: 1) It would have caught into the snow flipping the chair forward. Face plant with a chair on your back? or 2) It would have shot up very quickly. Most people have their arms resting on them. Dislocation? Hit in the jaw or face?
> 
> I don't know. I never liked them before so maybe I am just thinking about it too much.


 
But without safety bars people would have been thrown left and right.


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

SteveInCT said:


> Ya know, I always hate when lifts have those foot rest things on them because they make the lift cramped and are for people with very short legs. Seeing this makes me hat them more. If these chairs had them, one of two things would have happened: 1) It would have caught into the snow flipping the chair forward. Face plant with a chair on your back? or 2) It would have shot up very quickly. Most people have their arms resting on them. Dislocation? Hit in the jaw or face?
> 
> I don't know. I never liked them before so maybe I am just thinking about it too much.



If you look at the pictures, this lift DID have safety bars with foot rests. If anything I would think that for those few chairs that did impact the snow,  the bottom of the footrest hitting the snow might have actually absorbed some of the impact and sent the impact force through the metal of the chair, thus decreasing the forces the people on those few chairs had transferred to their bodies, and lower extremeties in particular.  Let alone keeping people on not just the chairs that hit the ground, but also what I'd imagine was a pretty good "bounce" for folks quite far away from the derailment site from being tossed out of the chair


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2010)

We've had the 'safety bar up or down' threads here before.  Some say they want the bar up in case there is a derailment so they can jump from the chair.  Wonder if anyone had the bar up yesterday and was able to do so.  I'm thinking the drop would happen so fast, there would be no way to push yourself away from the chair in time to not land in it.  Secondary problem might be the chair actually lands on top of you.  

There's another situation where people were fortunate.  Imagine if someone was skiing under the lift and the chair loaded with 2 skiers came crashing down on them.


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## marcski (Dec 29, 2010)

dmc said:


> Well - in fairness to NY residents... People are dying in the boro's - emergency vehicles can't make it through.... While Manhattan is clean as a whistle..




http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_local...s-accused-of-dropping-the-ball?bouchon=501,ny


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## SteveInCT (Dec 29, 2010)

I am all for having the bar down. I just don't like the footrest. 

DrJeff.. Good eye noticing the chairs have footrests! I didn't notice that. If the bars locked down, it could possibly soften the blow but they just pop right up. My guess is the footrest caused the bars to jump or the chairs to flip forward. Do we have any injury information to see if they might be consistent with the bars jumping up (arms / shoulders / facial)?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

Update: *WMTW Maine is reporting that investigators have said that wind was "a primary factor" of the incident.*


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Update: *WMTW Maine is reporting that investigators have said that wind was "a primary factor" of the incident.*



I can totally see this playing out in the media as "why were they running the lift in the 1st place in the winds?"  When folks with little knowledge of how a lift operates can't imagine that very often it's not the wind velocity thats the problem as much as its the wind DIRECTION.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2010)

I'll be curious to read how much Boyne has to open up the check book for on this one.  The way America works, I wouldn't be surprised if people who didn't fall off the lift try to get in on the action for 'emotional damages'


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## SteveInCT (Dec 29, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be curious to read how much Boyne has to open up the check book for on this one.  The way America works, I wouldn't be surprised if people who didn't fall off the lift try to get in on the action for 'emotional damages'



Yeah, no doubt. They should make it like workers comp where the claim could be investigated at any time. If someone on the lift claims emotional damage, ok, take your money, but if we see you on a lift again, you will be forced to give it back with penalty. Seems fair to me. Someone who was on their first day of skiing might take them up on it, but those of us who love the sport would never take a dime if it meant we couldn't go on a lift again! :lol: **Disclaimer** - I am not talking about legitimate, tangible claims like medical or damages to gear.


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## Geoff (Dec 29, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be curious to read how much Boyne has to open up the check book for on this one.  The way America works, I wouldn't be surprised if people who didn't fall off the lift try to get in on the action for 'emotional damages'



I imagine Boyne is insured for this kind of thing.   I'm wondering if the insurance companies will make the resorts start fiddling with operating limits before chairs go on wind hold.


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be curious to read how much Boyne has to open up the check book for on this one.  The way America works, I wouldn't be surprised if people who didn't fall off the lift try to get in on the action for 'emotional damages'



I can see it now uke: Your honor,  I was on the Wiffletree Quad when a friend tweeted me that something had happened over on Spillway and I was so scared that i couldn't get off Wiffletree and haven't been able to ride a chairlift since  :smash: :uzi: :smash:

Different context since it pertains to the cancelled because of the snow Sunday night football game between the Eagles and the Vikings, but if someone does pull a lawsuit move like above, then it's just another perfect example of as the Ed Rendell, the Gov of Pennsylvania, so well put it on _NBC Nightly News_ last night, "the wussification of America"


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## catskills (Dec 29, 2010)

If a NY City bus gets into an accident they have to keep the bus doors closed.  Too many people want to get on the bus and claim injury.

I wonder if anyone skied down spilllway after the fact, fell down in the snow  to claim they were on the chair lift.


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## WJenness (Dec 29, 2010)

4:00PM Report: http://www.sugarloaf.com/Corporate/Media/PressReleases/Present/2010/12.29spillway_update.html




			
				some details from the link said:
			
		

> Timeline of incident; mountain personnel response
> Sugarloaf experienced winds immediately following the major snowstorm which dropped 22” of snow on the resort this Monday.  As a result, several lifts at the resort, including the Spillway East chairlift, were placed on wind hold at the start of operations Tuesday.
> 
> Winds diminished as the morning progressed, and Spillway East was evaluated by the ski patrol director of Sugarloaf Mountain and a chairlift mechanic.
> ...



-w


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## wa-loaf (Dec 29, 2010)

http://www.sugarloaf.com/Corporate/Media/PressReleases/Present/2010/12.29spillway_update.html

Sounds as if they were in process of shutting down the lift when it happened.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2010)

WJenness said:


> 4:00PM Report: http://www.sugarloaf.com/Corporate/Media/PressReleases/Present/2010/12.29spillway_update.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Some new critical information that I highlight:  



> *Carrabassett Valley, ME (Dec. 29, 2010) –* Inspectors from the State of Maine Board of Elevators and Tramways, along with mountain operations personnel and representatives from Sugarloaf Mountain are investigating the deropement of the Spillway East chairlift, which took place at approximately 10:30am on Tuesday, December 28.
> 
> The investigation, which is still on-going, began on the afternoon of Tuesday, December 28.  Today, the State of Maine Board of Elevators and Tramways believes that wind was a contributing factor in the lift deropement.
> 
> ...


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## meff (Dec 29, 2010)

Here is a stupid question and not trying to really add gas to the situation - but why didn't they just go to an evacuation after realizing the lift couldn't be run at speed?


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## meff (Dec 29, 2010)

Not to edit my last post, but I want to add it is very refreshing how open and honest Sugarloaf has been about this whole situation and that is very refreshing.


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 29, 2010)

> The realignment effort was unsuccessful. The mechanics repeated the procedure, again unsuccessfully. The mechanic on Tower 8 determined that it would be inappropriate to run the chair at normal operating speed and the lift should be closed. Mechanics started the lift at a slow operating speed to begin off-loading the guests who were on the lift.
> 
> Shortly after starting the lift at reduced speed, the lift cable deroped from Tower 8, leaving the cable suspended between Tower 9 and Tower 7. Lacking the support of the sheave wheels on Tower 8, five chairs struck the snow below.



Hindsight, maybe they should have evaced people off the lift before trying to restart even at the slower speed.
However, one would think the sheave guards would have prevented the full deropement.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 29, 2010)

meff said:


> Here is a stupid question and not trying to really add gas to the situation - but why didn't they just go to an evacuation after realizing the lift couldn't be run at speed?





from_the_NEK said:


> Hindsight, maybe they should have evaced people off the lift before trying to restart even at the slower speed.
> However, one would think the sheave guards would have prevented the full deropement.



They probably didn't realize it was as bad as it was. Figured we run it slow and get everyone off. That's a lot easier, though riskier than a full evac.


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## marcski (Dec 29, 2010)

I hope the loaf was up to date on their insurance premiums!


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## from_the_NEK (Dec 29, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> They probably didn't realize it was as bad as it was. Figured we run it slow and get everyone off. That's a lot easier, though riskier than a full evac.



True.
I'm willing to speculate that the mechanics figured that even if the haulrope came off the rollers at the slow speed, the sheave guards would do their job and keep the haulrope on the tower while they again stopped the lift and proceeded with an evac.
At least I guessing that's what the guards are for...


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## Breeze (Dec 29, 2010)

I really did   have to laugh today when I saw Rebecca London on ch 13 news at Noon.   She's  just  20,  a sophomore at  Colby, and a CV  local..    She  was in one of the downed  chairs, and apparently  she  met  the safety bar  with her face  but  her  goggles protected her  from injury.

She didn't think the wind was much  of a factor  and  she's been skiing Sugarloaf  for  "almost 20 years". 

So,  DrJeff, I totally  agree with you   "When folks with little knowledge of how a lift operates can't imagine that very often it's not the wind velocity thats the problem as much as its the wind DIRECTION.

 Yes, this.  And, if  a fixed grip chair was  swinging out of  tolerance   / or \ on  entering the  sheave  train on that  tower in combination with a lift  stop or  start,  the  result could be just as was  experienced.  Derailment of the  haul rope.   A detachable grip lift would have had a different sort of  failure under  similar  circumstances, and lets  not   go there.    That would be a de-ropement   as  chairs  would detach from the haul rope to slide down the   tether  and impact  chairs downhill.   Possibly  a much  more  serious  and injurious  result. 

Many  want to castigate SL and Boyne over the age of Spillway and I'm sure the  nit comb will be all over this event. Let it  happen.  There are  lifts of that age and engineering providing  reliable service in many places.  New isn't any  guarantee of  better if you  don't have experience and service close to hand. 

Breeze

 Guilty as charged for not waiting for the  full investigation.    Props to SL and Boyne fpr   disclosure.


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## riverc0il (Dec 29, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll be curious to read how much Boyne has to open up the check book for on this one.  The way America works, I wouldn't be surprised if people who didn't fall off the lift try to get in on the action for 'emotional damages'


I think that is why, or we rather, pay for insurance. So that when accidents happen, as long as they are not negligent, then insurance pays for the injuries. I would be more worried that Boyne is going to have to spend out the butt for attorneys to defend themselves. As per usual, they may open up the wallet just to not have to defend themselves in court. For shame. 

Maybe we should assume the best intentions of those hurt? It certainly seems to me that this is a freak accident and no fault of the Loaf's. With the limited amount of wind, surely people would have been crying foul had the lift not been running. 

Would it be safe to say that if this is definitely wind related, that Spillway will be more likely to be on wind hold than it might have previously? Seems like a safe precaution given the circumstances.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 29, 2010)

New facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dear-Boyne-Please-send-new-lifts-Love-Sugarloaf/180383608652805?v=wall


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## ski_resort_observer (Dec 29, 2010)

Every large resort has very specific protocols regarding the closing of a lift due to wind. Any good liabilty lawyer will put everyone of them, whether it be Fed, state or in-house procedures, under a microscope to find any chink in that day's procedures. That's just for the wind issue. There are many others, as mentioned, that will be looked into. This could take years and I suspect some sort of out of court settlement will be result even if the Loaf performed admirably, which I feel it most certainly did, in this accident.

I assume CNL/Boyne will be happy to pay all medical expenses and other reasonable costs to the accident victims. I guess the defination of "reasonable" is the 800lb gorilla in this issue and will cost the insurance company millions to payout in the end. So glad the prognosis for everyone involved is a happy one. 

Wonder what has happened since the gondola up at Whistler dropped a bunch of guests on the snow awhile back, some cabins rolled with people in them. Did guests sue? Did the gov fine them? There seems to be similarities although no one was seriously injured and it was a lift tower section breaking off.


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## Puck it (Dec 29, 2010)

Free lifetime passes for them and family might go a long way.


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## 2Planker (Dec 30, 2010)

I've been a SR skier and (patroller) for over 35 years....  Don't recall us ever having a "double double" chair set up...  We had adjacent surface lifts,  and several chairs w/ drives located close to each other.    Please enlighten me, if you can.  Just curious, must have been prior to 1970, maybe in the first 10 years of operation...???















thetrailboss said:


> That design predates quads, which did not come about until the early 1980's.  The "double-double" design allowed for a lift to have the same start point and different ending points.
> 
> Attitash, Burke (though not completed), Bromley, and Sunday River had similar lifts that were designed and built by Hall or Borvig.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 30, 2010)

2Planker said:


> I've been a SR skier and (patroller) for over 35 years.... Don't recall us ever having a "double double" chair set up... We had adjacent surface lifts, and several chairs w/ drives located close to each other. Please enlighten me, if you can. Just curious, must have been prior to 1970, maybe in the first 10 years of operation...???


 
I was referring to the double at South Ridge. It may have been set up to handle a double-double but like Burke was not completed. 

Fall Line is the chair (former chair). Note the towers are the "T" design with hardware only on one side:












It looks like a Borvig that was similar to Spillway.


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## 2Planker (Dec 30, 2010)

That was the old Lift #5, which was taken out about 4-5 years ago....    There never was a plan for a parallel lift there, as the two adjacent lifts (#7 originally a triple + now the Chondola, and #6)  both accessed higher terrain.   Lift #5 was put in after the ski school moved to South Ridge, and was purely intended for that purpose.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 30, 2010)

2Planker said:


> That was the old Lift #5, which was taken out about 4-5 years ago.... There never was a plan for a parallel lift there, as the two adjacent lifts (#7 originally a triple + now the Chondola, and #6) both accessed higher terrain. Lift #5 was put in after the ski school moved to South Ridge, and was purely intended for that purpose.


 
Interesting.  Odd that they used those towers then....but they could have come from another resort.


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## 2Planker (Dec 30, 2010)

Yup,  and now I believe it has been recycled again....  by being shipped off to Boyne Highlands


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## billski (Dec 30, 2010)

Old lifts never die, they just show up somewhere else.

'cept maybe a few chairs that land in peoples' back yards!


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## marcski (Dec 30, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I think that is why, or we rather, pay for insurance. So that when accidents happen, as long as they are not negligent, then insurance pays for the injuries.



Insurance pays for one's negligent acts.....that's why we get it....it probably won't cover for intentional acts though....


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## jerryg (Dec 30, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Interesting.  Odd that they used those towers then....but they could have come from another resort.



Skip King's the expert on the original plans for the Falline Double, but it was not brought in from another resort, the lift was installed just prior to the South Ridge Triple and North Peak Triple. There was speculation that the unfinished side of the double-double was to go up North Peak, but they instead opted for the North Peak Triple to have better uphill capacity. Again, Skip's the expert on this (aside from Les, that is), but I recall this discussion coming up before on another board.


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## jerryg (Dec 30, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> It was the 80's. I thought it was higher up, but that was the end for the gondola. Later opened back up from the mid-station for a few years.



The gondola had more that one accident. The first was when they were about to open the upper section and when they sent the first cabin down the track, the drip didn't engage and fell off. I don't believe anyone was in the cabin. The same thing happened again when a grip tried to engage on a splice - again leaving the mid-station.

The most notable accident was in 85' or 86' a few of weeks prior to Feb vacation. The rope derailed on the lower part of the lift (Before it came out of the woods) and a man fell out of the cabin and injured his back. I looked for the story today as it made the newspapers and TV in Portland at the time, but there were never details about the man. The rumor was indeed about who he was with, but again, rumor. The lift was back in operation by Feb vacation. The lower half did not cease operation at that time, but yes, a couple of years later.


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## Rothski (Dec 30, 2010)

I was at UMF when they shut down the lower portion of the gondola. If I remember correctly it was because the cost of obtaining parts was getting excessive or they were getting diffiicut to obtain and they started using the parts from the lower section to replacement parts for the upper section. Does this sound familiar to anyone?


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## jerryg (Dec 31, 2010)

Rothski said:


> I was at UMF when they shut down the lower portion of the gondola. If I remember correctly it was because the cost of obtaining parts was getting excessive or they were getting diffiicut to obtain and they started using the parts from the lower section to replacement parts for the upper section. Does this sound familiar to anyone?



Sure do. PHB had long since gone out of business and parts were to available for the sheaves and towers. In order to run the lift from the mid-station to the summit, parts were taken from the lower part of the lift. Aside from Poelig/Hall not being around, the only other option would be to pay to retrofit the lift and if you know about SL's finances in the late 80's/early 90's, you known that was not an option.


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## billski (Jan 1, 2011)

And now, Whiteface

At around 11 a.m. on Wednesday the lift cable of Whiteface's Lift I,  also known as the Freeway Lift, derailed from the sheave train at tower  22, the next to last on the lift. The sheave train is the wheel assembly  that guides a chairlift's haul rope past a cable and suspends it above  the ground. A cable catcher installed on tower 22 prevented the cable  from falling to the ground and lift riders suffering a similar fate to  those at Sugarloaf on Tuesday.


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## TheBEast (Jan 1, 2011)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this winter will be the winter of publicized lift evac/issues/situations....stay safe out there everyone!


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## Breeze (Jan 1, 2011)

Is it  worth mentioning in passing that  inspection and licensing of  lifts  typically takes place in October/ November prior  to  any opening  date?  Or that an  Opening  Date  hardly means   every lift will be  in service on  a given  Opening  Day? 

Lots  of weather happens  between licensing and opening.   Fixed Grip chairs  hang on the haul rope   24/7.   A lift could  sit  essentially idle from a  load capacity perspective    for  many  weeks  and weather  cycles before  the Holiday Hordes arrive.   Yes, typically,  Lift Ops  will spin the idle  lifts  and monitor for issues periodically, but  there will be nowhere near   "max load" until the day  "max load" arrives and  loads. 

I do feel badly for  everyone on  both sides of the cash register  in this  issue. Many of  you remember the Halloween Opening of  Wildcat  end of  October  2005.    The  Tomcat  Triple was the only lift on mountain to have a current license to operate, and  even with that VERY  current license, it went  down  on  Sunday afternoon of the weekend with a electrical issue. 

Not everything in life is cut and   dried.   

Breeze


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## deadheadskier (Jan 12, 2011)

lawyers retained by some of the injured

http://www.pressherald.com/news/skiers-hurt-in-derailment-hire-law-firm_2011-01-12.html#


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## Skimaine (Jan 12, 2011)

One of the firm's partners (Dan Kagan) started a Facebook page about a week ago called "Dear Boyne, send us new lifts, Love, Sugarloaf" and is selling / distributing stickers with this catchy phrase.  He also is quoted in the Portland Press Herald as saying "We've been saying for several years, it's not a question of whether, it's a question of when Spillway gives out".    :-x


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## riverc0il (Jan 12, 2011)

Skimaine said:


> "We've been saying for several years, it's not a question of whether, it's a question of when Spillway gives out".    :-x


That's true for every lift currently in operation.

:uzi:

Personally, I think they are entitled to money to compensate for injuries, medical, work time off needed, etc. I think an out of court settlement should include something for the "suffering" factor as well. But knowing the way these things go, I am sure that lawyer is going to be going after millions.


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## WJenness (Jan 27, 2011)

Sugarloaf just released this info about the re-opening of SWE:



			
				Sugarloaf on FB said:
			
		

> Spillway East Update
> by Sugarloaf Mountain on Thursday, January 27, 2011 at 10:56am
> 
> Hi folks,
> ...



-w


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## Telemechanic (Feb 18, 2011)

Sugarloaf was load testing Spillway A side today

http://community.sugarloaf.com/forum/topics/spillway-east-load-test


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## Nick (Sep 7, 2011)

Found this, new haul rope, was this for this chair?


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## bigbob (Sep 8, 2011)

Nick said:


> Found this, new haul rope, was this for this chair?



Yes Nick, it is for the new chair. Could you delete the spam on this thread and ban the poster please.


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## SIKSKIER (Sep 8, 2011)

They made it heavier  to handle winds better.I believe it is about 21 tons which is more than both the old Spillway haul rope combined.


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## Nick (Sep 8, 2011)

bigbob said:


> Yes Nick, it is for the new chair. Could you delete the spam on this thread and ban the poster please.



the spam is always there fresh for when I get up in the morning... :lol:


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