# Wax new skis...end of season?



## andyaxa (Mar 9, 2010)

We have some new skis arriving any day. They should have a thin factory coat. If we're only going to ski a few times before racking them for the summer, think I should bother waxing them? I plan to do our own waxing next year, but don't presently have the stuff, so I'd get it done for $10 at the hill. Also, would be nice to not have to scrape the summer wax next season.


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## snowmonster (Mar 9, 2010)

If these were my new skis, especially if I will be maintaining them myself next season, I'd give them the full wax treatment: multiple layers of base prep wax (at least 4 layers) to saturate the bases then a temperature specific warm weather wax or universal wax to ready them for the mushy and wet spring conditions. From my understanding, the factory wax treatment can vary by manufacturer. If I will be spending some time caring for the skis, then I might as well set a good baseline on which to build.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 9, 2010)

I bought a new pair of skis at the end of last season.  I put a summer coat on them and enjoyed a nice harvest beer when scraping the summer wax off in the fall.  The more skis you're responsible for = more beers it takes to get the wax off.  This is a good problem.


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## bvibert (Mar 9, 2010)

I wouldn't bother if it was me, but lots of people will tell you otherwise.

Check out this thread for more on the discussion:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=66218


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## drjeff (Mar 9, 2010)

If you're going to store them for the non snow months in a DRY place, then you're probably fine if you don't (and won't be increasing the amount of work in the fall to get them ready for next season).

If you're going to be storing them in a place with either higher or fluctuating humidity levels, well then a thin coat of summer wax when you're ready to put them away for the non-snow months will make you're fall pre-prep work much easier.

Personally I find now a days with the much denser plastics that are used in base materials, that the importance of a summer coat of wax and base protection isn't nearly what it used to be 10-15+ years ago. The biggest thing, for all but the highest of level racers where tenths of a second are an issue, that the summer wax does today is prevent oxidation (rust) on the edges, especially if you're storing them in a moist place.


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## ERJ-145CA (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't bother with any summer wax, I just leave them in a corner in the family room during the off season and have them tuned in September or October.  I only use my skis for 2 or 3 seasons before they become my rock skis because I ski about 35 - 40 days a season plus they're stored in a climate controlled environment.


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## andyaxa (Mar 10, 2010)

Okay, after reading a few other waxing threads, it's good to see at least a couple other people as lazy as myself. Think we'll just ski 'em out of the box now (point might be moot with rain in the forecast ), store them in a dry place for the summer, get an iron and wax and aim to wax every 7-10 ski days next year. As for the beers, I am not going to deprive myself until waxing time, so I might just put the skis in the corner and gaze at them while enjoying a refreshing adult beverage. Also, when actually waxing is there a recommended beer/ski ratio? I will be maintaining five pairs, and while I am just starting to feel comfortable on the blues with parallel turns, I consider myself a level 9 apres-skier. 8)


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## snowmonster (Mar 10, 2010)

^1 beer per ski. Six packs were invented for you.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 10, 2010)

andyaxa said:


> Okay, after reading a few other waxing threads, it's good to see at least a couple other people as lazy as myself. Think we'll just ski 'em out of the box now (point might be moot with rain in the forecast ), store them in a dry place for the summer, get an iron and wax and aim to wax every 7-10 ski days next year. As for the beers, I am not going to deprive myself until waxing time, so I might just put the skis in the corner and gaze at them while enjoying a refreshing adult beverage. Also, when actually waxing is there a recommended beer/ski ratio? I will be maintaining five pairs, and while I am just starting to feel comfortable on the blues with parallel turns, I consider myself a level 9 apres-skier. 8)


Ski in the rain.  It's fun, keeps the people away and makes the snow nice and soft.

You will know that your skis need new wax when the bases start to "gray out" in areas.  This is when I re-wax.


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2010)

snowmonster said:


> ^1 beer per ski. Six packs were invented for you.





andyaxa said:


> Okay, after reading a few other waxing threads, it's good to see at least a couple other people as lazy as myself. Think we'll just ski 'em out of the box now (point might be moot with rain in the forecast ), store them in a dry place for the summer, get an iron and wax and aim to wax every 7-10 ski days next year. As for the beers, I am not going to deprive myself until waxing time, so I might just put the skis in the corner and gaze at them while enjoying a refreshing adult beverage. Also, when actually waxing is there a recommended beer/ski ratio? I will be maintaining five pairs, and while I am just starting to feel comfortable on the blues with parallel turns, I consider myself a level 9 apres-skier. 8)



Once you're comfortable with your tuning abilities, then I concur with Snowmonster's 1 beer per pair of ski's ratio :beer:  The first couple of times your tuning your own gear, you *might* want to back that ratio down to a beer per every 2 pairs of skis  :lol: :beer:


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## thetrailboss (Mar 10, 2010)

What SM said.  I always wax and don't scrape my skis at the end of the season.


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## bvibert (Mar 10, 2010)

At the end of the season I like to leave the dirt and other debris collected from spring skiing on the bottom of my skis, as a protective layer. 8)


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## SKIQUATTRO (Mar 10, 2010)

u just probably spent good money for your skis, take the 15 min to take care of em....thats my philosophy anyway....


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't know if there's an area in sporting with more myth and less science than ski bases and waxing.

Your ski bases are plastic.  Cheaper bases are made of high density polyethylene.  It's the same plastic containers marked with the number "2" SPI resin code are made from... like milk jugs and laundry detergent bottles.

Newer bases, from what I understand, are now almost exclusively made of ultra high molecular weight polyethylene.  Also a thermoplastic and related to HDPE, but the chains of polyethylene are longer on average and result in a denser, harder, stronger and more abrasion resistent material.  Other places UHMWPE is used- fibers of it are spun into line for kiting... and is more commonly known as Dyneema or Spectra.  UHMWPE fibers are also spun into body armor.

So ask yourself: what are you protecting the bases from in the summer aside from, as Dr. Jeff said, keeping the edges from rusting, that the ski wouldn't normally be exposed to in the winter?

Think humidity affects this plastic?  You ski on water all winter long.  The only reason to use glide wax is to make the ski glide better.  The base doesn't absorb wax.  If you think it does... ask yourself if you've ever seen your base absorb water.  Water is a smaller molecule than the hydrocarbons found in glide waxes.  Therefore, if the base doesn't absorb water, it doesn't absorb wax.  Wax just adheres to the surface of the base.  When it gets worn off, you have to put more on.

Nor will it protect your bases from abrasion.  UHMWPE is more abrasion resistant than carbon steel, and is on par with some stainless steels.  I bet you can make a scratch mark in a block of wax with your finger nail.  You can't scratch steel with your finger nail.  Therefore, wax does nothing for protection.

Don't get caught up in the voodoo around bases and waxes.  These materials and chemicals aren't magic.  Their properties are well known and studied.


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc said:


> I don't know if there's an area in sporting with more myth and less science than ski bases and waxing.
> 
> Your ski bases are plastic.  Cheaper bases are made of high density polyethylene.  It's the same plastic containers marked with the number "2" SPI resin code are made from... like milk jugs and laundry detergent bottles.
> 
> ...



I just love when you start talking RATIONAL, science based engi-nerd!


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## wa-loaf (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc said:


> I don't know if there's an area in sporting with more myth and less science than ski bases and waxing.
> 
> Your ski bases are plastic.  Cheaper bases are made of high density polyethylene.  It's the same plastic containers marked with the number "2" SPI resin code are made from... like milk jugs and laundry detergent bottles.
> 
> ...



Not going to argue with any of this. The humidity thing is for your edges and a summer wax is good to cover them up for additional protection.

One question however. Are the bases constructed in anyway that there is some porousness in the base structure (not that actual material) that can absorb the wax?


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Not going to argue with any of this. The humidity thing is for your edges and a summer wax is good to cover them up for additional protection.
> 
> One question however. Are the bases constructed in anyway that there is some porousness in the base structure (not that actual material) that can absorb the wax?



Most modern bases start out as very small beads of the high/ultra high molecular weight plastics that Marc mentioned, which are melted and then under heat and pressure are injected into a mold and cooled to form a single sheet.  Then multiple sheets are placed into a final mold once again under heat and pressure to get the final base essentially laminated together(multiple colors and/or graphics can be added into the final layers to get the desired appearnce)   Okay, sometimes they'll cycle the base through the heating/cooling process a couple of times and/or quickly cool down the freshly injected mold to obtain desired final physical properties, but basically it's injection molding of a plastic under pressure is how they're made.

The wax absorption comes from the molecular nature of the plastic.  It's not all 1 solid piece of plastic where every molecule lines up exactly and square with it's next door neighbor, there are gaps between the molecules of plastic(think a piece of swiss cheese), and it's in these gaps where the wax is taken up.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 10, 2010)

drjeff said:


> The wax absorption comes from the molecular nature of the plastic.  It's not all 1 solid piece of plastic where every molecule lines up exactly and square with it's next door neighbor, there are gaps between the molecules of plastic(think a piece of swiss cheese), and it's in these gaps where the wax is taken up.



That's what I was looking for. Even though the plastic can't absorb wax, there is space in the structure that can.


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Not going to argue with any of this. The humidity thing is for your edges and a summer wax is good to cover them up for additional protection.
> 
> One question however. Are the bases constructed in anyway that there is some porousness in the base structure (not that actual material) that can absorb the wax?



Yeah, I've read conflicting opinions on this... and so far all I've been able to discern is that some people think sintering UHMWPE creates a porous plastic.  And it can, depending on the process used.  However, to the best of my knowledge, plastic sheets used for bases is made to be hydrophobic, and some used are extruded.  The main advantage of using a sintered or molded base over extrusions are that extruding leaves internal stresses where sintering and/or molding wouldn't.  But extrusions are still used for base materials.  I've never seen anyone with proof of such porousness; given that bases are supposed to be hydrophobic I'm not surprised.  It's surface roughness that holds wax.  Perhaps the confusion comes from the terminology.


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Most modern bases start out as very small beads of the high/ultra high molecular weight plastics that Marc mentioned, which are melted and then under heat and pressure are injected into a mold and cooled to form a single sheet.  Then multiple sheets are placed into a final mold once again under heat and pressure to get the final base essentially laminated together(multiple colors and/or graphics can be added into the final layers to get the desired appearnce)   Okay, sometimes they'll cycle the base through the heating/cooling process a couple of times and/or quickly cool down the freshly injected mold to obtain desired final physical properties, but basically it's injection molding of a plastic under pressure is how they're made.
> 
> The wax absorption comes from the molecular nature of the plastic.  It's not all 1 solid piece of plastic where every molecule lines up exactly and square with it's next door neighbor, there are gaps between the molecules of plastic(think a piece of swiss cheese), and it's in these gaps where the wax is taken up.



Kewl, I'm too slow again.  However, I do know extrusions are sometimes used, it's cheaper that way, but there's internal stress to deal with.  I'm guessing the annealing process you talk about is probably used to remedy that.


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## MR. evil (Mar 10, 2010)

Someone mention using wax to prevent edge rust. Why don't ski Mfrs use stainless steel for edges so we don't have to worry about rust? Is it purly cost driven? I know ID One skis use only S. Steel for the edges, but they are an expensive ski.


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> Someone mention using wax to prevent edge rust. Why don't ski Mfrs use stainless steel for edges so we don't have to worry about rust? Is it purly cost driven?



Yes.  Plus stainless is a little more difficult to cold work.


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2010)

Don't worry about the rust anyway.  It's just superficial.


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## ERJ-145CA (Mar 10, 2010)

Marc said:


> Don't worry about the rust anyway.  It's just superficial.



I always figured any rust was cleaned off during the fall sharpening and tuning.


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## andyaxa (Mar 11, 2010)

Marc said:


> The only reason to use glide wax is to make the ski glide better.


OK, I think I followed the conversation but I'm not a chemical engineer...just a purveyor of the Demon Rum. It seems that wax does not actualluy absorb into the base but rather fills in spaces formed in the making of base. Sooooo....does Marc's quote above still hold? Does wax offer ANY protection?....ie if someone never waxed would it harm their skis?


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## Marc (Mar 11, 2010)

andyaxa said:


> OK, I think I followed the conversation but I'm not a chemical engineer...just a purveyor of the Demon Rum. It seems that wax does not actualluy absorb into the base but rather fills in spaces formed in the making of base. Sooooo....does Marc's quote above still hold? Does wax offer ANY protection?....ie if someone never waxed would it harm their skis?



No.  Like I pointed out before, wax is a soft material.  Various polyethylenes are far more abrasion resistant.  Wax is for glide.


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## andyaxa (Mar 11, 2010)

OK, thanks...good to know if I'm not a vigilant waxer it won't harm the bases.


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## Glenn (Mar 11, 2010)

I wax when the edges of the base start to get a bit chalkly. Although, I'm a little more OCD than the average bear, so if my skis feel grabby, they get waxed. 

I also use a structure tool from Tongar. It works great and it's really easy to use. A few basses pre waxing and I'm good to go.


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## snowmonster (Mar 11, 2010)

I've heard all the arguments pro and con waxing and I'm not going to argue the science behind this. All I know is this: 1) gear is expensive and I like maintaining them in the best condition I can keep them; 2) being meticulousness is part of my DNA; 3) waxing and tuning skis are therapeutic and keep me thinking of skiing during the workweek; 4) a well-tuned ski grips well on ice and hardpack; and 5) a well-waxed pair of skis glides really well on traverses and doesn't get suctioned in the spring. I don't think I've ever been passed on Kansas at SR. 

But, to each his own. That's what skiing is about.


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