# This weather is hurting the majority of the ski business



## drjeff (Feb 20, 2015)

I know that it seems completely opposite of thought amongst so many on this board, BUT I know from rumblings of many industry friends I have from New England and the mid west, that all of this harsh cold and storms that seem to often fall on weekends and keep day trippers away, has kept crowds (and hence revenues) down this year. And while the snowsurfaces are generally very good and plentiful right now, the extreme weather is hurting revenues, and that ISN'T good for the industry as a whole!! 

Today as I was having some apres beers, the fact that 3 of my usual bartenders were in street clothes and on the "customer" side of the bar with me since there wasn't the business volume to warrant them working on the Friday of Presidents week, speaks volumes!!!

We NEED some moderate weather, comfy temps weekends the rest of the season with BIG liftlines to keep the industry healthy!!!!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 20, 2015)

I think it's just been so punishing in the South that the non-diehards don't want to do a thing on weekends except sleep.  I doubt it's the temperatures as much as it's people worn out from normal 30 minute commutes on public transportation being 2 hours (if they even have public trans available), road commuting nearly twice as long as well.  Combine that with worrying about your roof collapsing, burning massive snow days to stay home with the kids.  Yeah, no one's leaving home from inside the 495 belt.  They've given up on life until spring.  :lol:  whenever that might be.........


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## chuckstah (Feb 20, 2015)

A Boston news report today on Wachusett said they are down 40% over the last three weeks coinciding with all the snow, just the opposite of what one would expect.
Link to broadcast      Boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/19/record-setting-snow-takes-toll-on-mass-ski-resorts/


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## deadheadskier (Feb 20, 2015)

Guess there is such a thing as too much of a good thing here in the east.  

Historically, ski areas tend to do real well with season pass sales the year following a big natural snow season.  If the resorts can't make up for this lull at the register in March, hopefully they do well in off season pass sales.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 20, 2015)

For me it's the temperature. I've been more than happy to be blacked out this week. NYC & western LI haven't been hit nearly as hard with snow as those further to the northeast. In fact I think our biggest storm was 8" & that was the 1st one. The 2nd we had freezing rain with next to no accumulation. The 3rd nothing again & maybe 3" the other day with the storm that passed to our south. Snow really hasn't been a problem by me.


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## Warp Daddy (Feb 20, 2015)

The extended brutal windchills are the principle reason many stay home . NNY region has had 30-40 below zero windchills since the last weekend in January . I have NEVER seen that in the 50 yrs i have lived here. We typically get 4-5 days of it


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## yeggous (Feb 20, 2015)

Warp Daddy said:


> The extended brutal windchills are the principle reason many stay home . NNY region has had 30-40 below zero windchills since the last weekend in January . I have NEVER seen that in the 50 yrs i have lived here. We typically get 4-5 days of it



This is a big part. On Monday when most of NH was shut down due to wind I went to Bretton Woods. It was brutally cold and I got some pretty nice frostbite. The place was a ghost town too.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 20, 2015)

drjeff said:


> I know that it seems completely opposite of thought amongst so many on this board, BUT I know from rumblings of many industry friends I have from New England and the mid west, that all of this harsh cold and storms that seem to often fall on weekends and keep day trippers away, has kept crowds (and hence revenues) down this year. And while the snowsurfaces are generally very good and plentiful right now, the extreme weather is hurting revenues, and that ISN'T good for the industry as a whole!!



That's why I asked you what I did recently about a certain property(40% of top-line revenue).


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## ss20 (Feb 20, 2015)

I taught one kid President's day Saturday in the 8 hours I was at the mountain.  One kid.  Its snowed every weekend since MLK.  This weekend that trend continues, with snow on Saturday.  Sunday though, with sun and highs in the forties, will be mobbed.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 20, 2015)

As of the moment, next weekend looks very cold too.


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## Quietman (Feb 20, 2015)

This year has really taken a hit on midnight madness at Crotched.  No one wants to drive home at 3am on a snowy night, or ski at 1am when its zero or below.  Right now its -1 at 10:30pm, and tomorrow night will be another snowy night.  I may be there tomorrow afternoon/evening, but I live 10 miles away.  Sometimes, too much snow and cold can be bad for the business, and as much as hardcores love it, they don't pay most of the bills.  If the snow ends early enough, I agree that Sunday will be mobbed at most areas, and they need it to make up the lost presi day/weekend business big time!


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## wa-loaf (Feb 20, 2015)

chuckstah said:


> A Boston news report today on Wachusett said they are down 40% over the last three weeks coinciding with all the snow, just the opposite of what one would expect.
> Link to broadcast      Boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/19/record-setting-snow-takes-toll-on-mass-ski-resorts/



There were no lifelines at Wachusett last night. Middle of vacation week. Not sure what the weekdays have been like. I did do my part for the mtn and went in early and had an extra beer ...


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## joshua segal (Feb 21, 2015)

While I don't have access to insider stats, I can see with my eyes that the crowds have not been around on what are supposed to be the ski business's busiest times:

While the snow continues to be epic, the timing of the weather is a disaster for the eastern skiing areas:
 - Christmas: Rain
 - MLK: Sunday of the weekend lost to rain
 - President's Day weekend: Roads were bad, snow was amazing, but people stayed away. With the exception of Feb. 18, the entire week featured wind and intense cold (Daytime highs in the teens).

I have a feeling that areas that are fiscally on the cusp of bankruptcy will join the "lost ski area" lists.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 21, 2015)

When the car thermometer reads -8 in the morning and the plan is to go somewhere colder, it can be tough to motivate........but we do it.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 21, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> When the car thermometer reads -8 in the morning and the plan is to go somewhere colder, it can be tough to motivate........but we do it.



But do the masses do it?


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## joshua segal (Feb 21, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> But do the masses do it?
> 
> 
> .


Bingo.  And today is supposed to moderate to the 20s and should be a beautiful day.  The destination resorts aren't hurt as much.  Their guests, in most cases, have the skiing paid for already and just have to go for as long or short as they can stand.  Same for season pass holders.  But the over-the-counter retail customers at the day-trip areas, the fiscal bread-and-butter of the industry, are staying away in droves!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 21, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> But do the masses do it?
> 
> 
> .



The "masses" don't ski in general.  They stay inside all winter and bitch about the cold and snow.  Sucks to be them.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 21, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> The "masses" don't ski in general.  They stay inside all winter and bitch about the cold and snow.  Sucks to be them.



I was talking about skiers.   


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## KD7000 (Feb 21, 2015)

I've missed at least two days out where I would have gone myself, but I'm not going to bring my kids out because the temperatures range from uncomfortable to downright dangerous.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 21, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I was talking about skiers.
> 
> 
> .



The masses aren't diehards.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 21, 2015)

Killington was much slower then I anticipated this week. Made for some great skiing though.


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## drjeff (Feb 21, 2015)

Mount Snow is seemingly trying to make up for a slow President's all at once today!!! Its still cold, about -5 at 1st chair, and a decent breeze up top (roughly 20mph range) but even before the "crack o' 10:30" crowd hits the hill its BUSY!!


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## VTKilarney (Feb 21, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> The masses aren't diehards.



That was my assumption.  Thus the decrease in day ticket sales.  


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## thetrailboss (Feb 21, 2015)

http://www.saminfo.com/news/presidents’-week-tale-east-west

Yep, those that have the snow are too cold; those that are warm have no snow.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

The trend for weekend/early week storms has worked out well for someone like me, who skis midweek. I've had some beautiful Wed-Thursday ski days but getting more than one nice day has been difficult. You'll get one nice day and then the temperatures will plummet, winds pick up and that alone is a big deterrent to your average skier.

 This past Wednesday I headed up to the Catskills for a few days. On Wednesday, the weather and conditions were the best I've had all season after all the snow that was dumped over the President's Day Weekend and it stayed cold. A lot of schools were closed so there wer quite a few people out during midweek..a lot of families and kids but fortunately it wasn't too crowded but many were obviously taking advantage of the great weather. Temperatures rose into the 20s with sun and no wind and it was pure heaven.

 I wanted to stay and ski again Thursday but woke up to 2 degrees and snowing lightly (which isn't a problem) but the 30-40 mph winds and resulting wind chill killed it. I could barely walk to my car, never mind ski down the mountain, so I packed up and went home and judging by the traffic heading out of town that day, I wasn't the only one. Since then it's been single digits and windy, so we pretty much had that ONE nice day all week. 

 I'll bet more than one person has reacted this way this season and it adds up.  Warm and wet is bad but single digits and windy can be almost as bad too. Fresh snow getting blown off the mountain and lifts being put on wind holds aren't good things. 

I'm hoping for a more benign March but that it stays cold so we don't lose the nice base. It looks like after Sunday things might be improving for next week and I'm planning to head out Wednesday again. Unfortunately for the resorts the mentality of the general public is that ski season is over after Presidents Day and people start shopping for bathing suits and planning what to plant in their gardens. I'd love to get some more skiing in though. Been doing cross country skiing too, which is a nice alternative as woods tends to be a bit more sheltered and you stay warmer.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> http://www.saminfo.com/news/presidents’-week-tale-east-west
> 
> Yep, those that have the snow are too cold; those that are warm have no snow.



Yep, I heard quite a few people saying this while skiing this past Wednesday....that they had been out west and the skiing was BETTER in the Catskills or the same. Ouch! I plan on moving out west next year and often check out the weather there and have to admit that it would make for better hiking/camping then skiing. It's why I have a lot of hobbies.


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## Whitey (Feb 21, 2015)

Funny that you brought this up – I was thinking the same thing earlier this week; “wow it’s Presidents Day weekend and school vacation week and no one’s here”.  My feelings vacillated between “uh-oh, some ski areas are going to fail and the industry is in trouble” and “it’s too cold and everyone’s too sick of snow anyway to go skiing”.   

Part of my concern for what this means to skiing is that I have always been old-school about winter ski vacations. If we were up at the mountain for vacation - we went out (for at least a little while) whether it was raining, snowing, meteors falling, temps hovering around sub-arctic level, god-awful slope conditions, etc.  This was true when I was a kid and it’s true now that I am the parent taking the kids to the mountain.  So I expected there to be more crowds on the slopes the last few days.   I just figured that people would "get out".  I mean, what else are you going to do, sit in your house and stare at piles of snow outside of your windows?  I expected to have to endure some monster lines but found the exact opposite.  

My experiences this past week:

*Bolton Valley Monday 2/16, Presidents Day*: Very cold & some wind hold lifts.  But there was literally maybe 100 people skiing there that day. The sun was out & it was Presidents Day. I thought that with the wind holds everywhere and it being a holiday that a lot of people would opt for the less expensive & closer to Burlington ski area.  Only about 100 did.

*Stowe Tuesday 2/17, School vacation*: Cold again, but sun was out.  After the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] lift up, we skied onto the lift or gondis all day long.   No lines, no waits.   Not very busy on the mountain.  Took many runs where we were alone or saw 1 other group. Walked around the lodge/Spruce area after the mountain closed.   It was dead.   Restaurants were half full & shops were empty. This should have been “prime time” for this area & it should have been jumping après-ski.   It wasn't.   

*Sugarbush Wednesday 2/18, School vacation*: Sunny, mid 20’s temp.  Parking lots were pretty light. Skied onto lifts most times all day. At lunch, the lodge was busier than I thought it would be with lots of families.  My theory is that the condos and rental homes were doing well with vacationing families but no one was driving to the mountain to ski.  I also think that the entire area was in play so that spread people out all over the place, including a lot of tree skiing that isn’t usually available.  So maybe it was busier than it felt.   But even if you give me those points; It was ski-onto lifts on one of the best days of the year in the middle of school vacation week. That just doesn’t feel right (feels great as a skier, but makes me nervous about the future of the sport).   

Maybe I worry too much, but it was really noticeable this past week.


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## benski (Feb 21, 2015)

Whitey said:


> .  I mean, what else are you going to do, sit in your house and stare at piles of snow outside of your windows?  I expected to have to endure some monster lines but found the exact opposite.



Video games and Netflix!The real enemy of ski areas. 


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## steamboat1 (Feb 21, 2015)

I wasn't in VT. this week (blacked out) but while I was up last week I did notice that the ski area I was at (Killington) was busier than normal during the week. I like others ski mostly during the week & last Tuesday was the first time all season I had wait in any kind of significant line (10min. for the K-1 gondi). Last Tues.-Thurs. the weather was milder than it has been this week with temps mostly in the upper teens & low 20's which is perfect skiing weather. We even picked up a few inches Thurs. during the day with mild temps. Maybe it was the weather that brought people out. Friday was a different story with temps dropping well below zero during the night (-16 & windy when I woke up Fri. morning). I opted to drive home instead of skiing.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

I think a lot of the day-trippers have stayed home due to the weather. They see the forecast and bag it.  Those who have definite vacation plans probably went anyway but hid out in their hotel rooms and condos when it's single digits and 30-50 mph wind gusts. Only the really hardcore venture out then. 

More than once I've taken a multi day skiing vacation with my daughter and often we'll take a day off when the weather is bad and just chill out, usually when it rains though. I don't mind cold, dislike wind but hate cold rain so if it's raining or miserably cold/windy one day out of 3 we'll take a day off.  We've gone skiing when the actual temperature is -5 degrees with 30 mph winds and braved it. Still remember one time we were skiing Killington and the high for the day was 5 degrees. The winds were so fierce we were literally being blown UP the mountain. We just took a lot of breaks but enjoyed the day but it wasn't a crowded day!

Sure everyone wants a bluebird day in the 30s with no wind but sometimes Mother Nature isn't cooperating. When you go on a ski vacation you take what you get and hope for the best, just like any vacation where you plan to be outdoors. 

I'm so glad that at least around here the ski resorts no longer charge holiday/weekend prices for midweek skiing the week after President's Day. I hated that. I don't even take off Presidents Day! 

I definitely saw an increase in crowds over the usual midweek crowds at Hunter but it wasn't all that bad. Nice crowd, mostly families. Most colleges don't have break now so it's not like it is at Christmas or MLK weekend.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 21, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> I'm so glad that at least around here the ski resorts no longer charge holiday/weekend prices for midweek skiing the week after President's Day. I hated that. I don't even take off Presidents Day!


In VT. at least they charge holiday/weekend rates during all of Presidents week. At least the areas that have those rates, some are the same price everyday regardless (Stowe for example).


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> In VT. at least they charge holiday/weekend rates during all of Presidents week. At least the areas that have those rates, some are the same price everyday regardless (Stowe for example).



It's one reason I don't head north that week...plus the increase in crowds. I only ski midweek and having yet another week "blacked out" in prime ski season is a real downer. 

Stowe is amazingly expensive. Great place but due to their high prices combined with an 8 hour drive I haven't been there in years. 

Down this way they used to have holiday rates for the entire week after Presidents Day but this year that seems to have changed and now they just charge it for the weekend and Monday.  Maybe they figured out that it deters regular midweek skiers like myself from going. I don't know but I'm not complaining. 

It's snowing here at the Jersey Shore. It's Saturday, I'm home napping and watching Netflix/playing video games and I'm waiting until Wednesday to enjoy a midweek ski day.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 21, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> It's one reason I don't head north that week...plus the increase in crowds. I only ski midweek and having yet another week "blacked out" in prime ski season is a real downer.
> 
> Stowe is amazingly expensive. Great place but due to their high prices combined with an 8 hour drive I haven't been there in years.
> 
> ...


Same thing here, planning on being in VT. Tues.-Fri. this week. Stowe really isn't as expensive as it's perceived to be. Online tickets are $89 which is competitive with rates charged by other areas. You could even sit in the base lodge the morning your skiing  & order your ticket online instead of walking to the ticket window & paying walk-up rate. I also use VT. passes at Stowe which is a little over $40 & they also offer ski club appreciation days several days every month which are $44. Been there once already this season & hope to ski there a few more days before the season is over. I ski one area (K) the most because I have a pass & it's closest to our VT. house but I do like getting around a little.


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## Harvey (Feb 21, 2015)

I'm guessing the East will fare better than much of the west.

Skiing is weather dependent. You're never going to escape that.

I was reading an article about North Creek. In 1934, the skiing started when there was enough snow on the ground to ski... the first week in March.

The difference was that people in the Adks considered tourist money from skiing as a bonus, not full time employment.


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## Shredder of Gnar (Feb 21, 2015)

People just need to learn how to dress warm and ski hard, and quit being such wimps!  After growing up skiing at Gore with -50 wind chill regularly, this winter has been toasty warm compared to that, and we didn't have all the high tech gear there is now to keep you warm...


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> *over-the-counter retail customers at the day-trip areas, the fiscal bread-and-butter of the industry, are staying away in droves!*



I have to believe this is true.  I've already cancelled plans twice to hit n.VT this year, bagging one weekend and skiing the other weekend at Platty (further south and warmer) instead.  I'm monitoring the models for next weekend as well, also planning on going to n.VT, but it doesn't look good.  Probably another weekend skiing at Platty.   Now, I'm more than a casual skier, so I'm still going to ski, but I'll go somewhere where it's not -19 to 9 degrees.  To those "bread & butter" folks you speak of though?  I imagine they see, _"High of 8 degrees, windchills as low as -25"_, on the nightly news and they say "SCREW THAT!".



Shredder of Gnar said:


> People just need to learn how to dress warm and ski hard, and quit being such wimps!  After* growing up skiing at Gore with -50 wind chill regularly*, this winter has been toasty warm compared to that



Yeah, that didn't happen.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2015)

In terms of actual holiday experience I've noted this year, this was the 4th or 5th year in a row I've gone to Whiteface for MLK weekend, so I have a good handle what I should see.   

This year was negatives in the morning and single digit highs, and I'm 100% sure it's the fewest skiers I've seen at Whiteface for MLK weekend since I've been going there.  Saturday was DEAD.   Sunday it warmed up considerably and was more crowded (so many people stayed in hotels, good for lodging folks if so), but to my eye it was still fewer people than the usual MLK Sunday at Whiteface.


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## Shredder of Gnar (Feb 21, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I have to believe this is true.  I've already cancelled plans twice to hit n.VT this year, bagging one weekend and skiing the other weekend at Platty (further south and warmer) instead.  I'm monitoring the models for next weekend as well, also planning on going to n.VT, but it doesn't look good.  Probably another weekend skiing at Platty.   Now, I'm more than a casual skier, so I'm still going to ski, but I'll go somewhere where it's not -19 to 9 degrees.  To those "bread & butter" folks you speak of though?  I imagine they see, _"High of 8 degrees, windchills as low as -25"_, on the nightly news and they say "SCREW THAT!".
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that didn't happen.



Wrongo BG, you must be a youngen -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... that was the norm from late Dec thru early March back then...


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## Bostonian (Feb 21, 2015)

Another thing to take into consideration, with all this snow some of us have had ice dam, snow issues... So rather than getting out on the weekends, I have been tending to this, which sucks...  Hope tomorrow to make it to the crotch at least, hell I will take wachusett even


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> Wrongo BG, you must be a youngen -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... that was the norm from late Dec thru early March back then...



The late '60s...I hear there were some amazingly cold/snowy winters back then. I was born then but didn't experience except to play in it as a kid. I remember more winters where the snow was scarce and I cursed the rain that washed it away during the very real "January Thaws". In college we went up to Stowe for a week and got one day of mediocre skiing in on thin, icy cover before it was all washed away by 2 days of rain. We wound up going to Montreal for a road trip and drank a lot of beer in the hotel room. Of course on the way back home it was snowing. I wanted to turn the car back around but was outvoted. 

It's been like that a lot. I chose the last week in January for our annual ski vacation because that's the coldest, snowiest time of the year. Sometimes we did get it. Once at Windham in the late '90s  the ACTUAL temperature was -30 degrees with 25 mph wind gusts. I took my daughter to the ski shop and outfitted in her the proper gear and we hit the slopes. It was like that for all 3 days we were there.  One year at Killington we woke up to almost 2 feet of snow and I was glad for my Jeep Wrangler's 4 wheel drive as we drove out of the parking lot filled with fellow skiers shoveling out their cars. We hit first chair that day. 

But just as often I've cursed the weather for warming up and raining on us when it should be snowing and if it wasn't for snowmaking there wouldn't have been any skiing. That's how it was both January 2012 and 2013 up in Killington. In 2013 it was brown all the way up to Killington and even on the peak the snow was spotty. That year I went up to Hunter at the end of March, not to ski but to hike. I was in shorts and had the top down on my Jeep. 

 This year it's been a matter of too much snow, cold and wind which I find that ironic since for many years I would've welcomed 3 degrees/snow over 35 and rain.  But as someone pointed out, skiing is an outdoor activity so it's always weather dependent. Same the other things I love, be it hiking/backpacking, camping, kayaking, etc. You dress for it and hope for the best.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

Bostonian said:


> Another thing to take into consideration, with all this snow some of us have had ice dam, snow issues... So rather than getting out on the weekends, I have been tending to this, which sucks...  Hope tomorrow to make it to the crotch at least, hell I will take wachusett even



When we were getting these storms on Mondays and Tuesdays I had the choice of moving my work into later in the week when I wanted to ski or onto the weekends. I worked a Sunday one day and yesterday, which was supposed to be my day off,  so I could ski this past Wed. Seems ironic that too much cold/snow would keep one from skiing.


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## AdironRider (Feb 21, 2015)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> Wrongo BG, you must be a youngen -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... that was the norm from late Dec thru early March back then...



I bet you walked to school uphill both ways, in a blizzard. 

Get over yourself, it wasn't magically 50 degrees cooler on average in the 60's than it is now.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 21, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> I bet you walked to school uphill both ways, in a blizzard.
> 
> Get over yourself, it wasn't magically 50 degrees cooler on average in the 60's than it is now.



Maybe Shredder is Al Gore in real life.  


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## Shredder of Gnar (Feb 21, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> I bet you walked to school uphill both ways, in a blizzard.
> 
> Get over yourself, it wasn't magically 50 degrees cooler on average in the 60's than it is now.



You're right!!! I guess they gave out those blankets and checked everybody's faces just for kicks -- this is my last response, I need to prepare for a powder day tomorrow and I've learned that some other keyboard know-it-all will always have some last wise-ass comment!

Dress warm and ski hard....


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## AdironRider (Feb 21, 2015)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> You're right!!! I guess they gave out those blankets and checked everybody's faces just for kicks -- this is my last response, I need to prepare for a powder day tomorrow and I've learned that some other keyboard know-it-all will always have some last wise-ass comment!
> 
> Dress warm and ski hard....



It couldn't possibly be either of these two things:

 Slow old lifts compared to high speed gondolas, quads, and triples...

Or you're just senile.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2015)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> *Wrongo BG, you must be a youngen* -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... *that was the norm from late Dec thru early March *back then...



Youngen?  Not really, though perhaps relative to you.  But I'm old enough to know that this part of the world doesn't experience -50 with wind chill even remotely often enough to "regularly" ski in those conditions, even if you somehow wanted to, which very few would.   

And no, it was not that much colder in the 1960's either.  In fact, 2015 is perhaps closing in on being among the coldest winters since records have been recorded, and you couldn't "regularly" ski in -50s at Gore this near record year either.



AdironRider said:


> *I bet you walked to school uphill both ways, in a blizzard.
> 
> Get over yourself, it wasn't magically 50 degrees cooler on average in the 60's than it is now.*


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## Rowsdower (Feb 21, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> And no, it was not that much colder in the 1960's either.  In fact, 2015 is perhaps closing in on being among the coldest winters since records have been recorded, and you couldn't "regularly" ski in -50s at Gore this near record year either.



Where? In the NE or worldwide? Because right now the west coast is having a pretty historically mild winter, and overall things are getting warmer. Doesn't mean local weather patterns won't change, but hey maybe we lucked out on the climate change lottery if it means Stowe will be getting more snow than Alta in the future.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2015)

Rowsdower said:


> Where?



Logic would dictate we're talking about.........the area we're talking about.


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## Rowsdower (Feb 21, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Logic would dictate we're talking about.........the area we're talking about.



I didn't make that assumption. Brain was on a global climate wavelength when I read your post.


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## joshua segal (Feb 21, 2015)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> ... -- they regularly handed out blankets before you got on the East Chair at Gore in late 60s, and patrollers would be standing where you got off the lift to check faces and send anybody inside if there were any white spots... that was the norm from late Dec thru early March back then...


Yes, they handed out blankets -- but M1 at Smuggler's Notch is as awful as any lift of the 60s and they don't hand out blankets.  Basically, the clothing and accessories have obviated the need.  A partial list of the "keeping warm" improvements includes:
1. Snow pants/Warm up pants
2. Balaclava
3. Hand/Toe warmers
4. Better insulated boots
5. Fleeces
6. Goretex
7. Better insulated gloves

I skied at Saddleback this season on a morning that started at -31 and not only survived, but thrived!


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 21, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I've already cancelled plans twice to hit n.VT this year,
> 
> .



What did you do as a student at UVM?  Stay in the dorm half the winter?   I bet at least 45 days in an average season the temps at the top of the lifts on Mansfield don't exceed 10 degrees.  I lived in Stowe and commuted to UVM 3 out of my4 years.  Most mornings I left the house in negative digits during winter.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> What did you do as a student at UVM?  Stay in the dorm half the winter?   I bet at least 45 days in an average season the temps at the top of the lifts on Mansfield don't exceed 10 degrees.



I didnt go go UVM.

If it was 10 degrees at the top, it would be fine.  The times I'm talking about were far worse than that, and I'm not driving 6 to 7 hours to ski in -20s (or worse) perceived and/or have wind delays (or worse).


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## yeggous (Feb 21, 2015)

Wildcat was quiet today, but I hear Bretton Woods was a zoo.

The bottom line is that years as a whole are trending warmer. However, there is a lot of evidence that suggests that cold air outbreaks and snow in New England, particularly in February, are getting more severe. It is largely related to a reduction in Arctic sea ice. You can take my word for it or engage me further.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

Rowsdower said:


> Where? In the NE or worldwide? Because right now the west coast is having a pretty historically mild winter, and overall things are getting warmer. Doesn't mean local weather patterns won't change, but hey maybe we lucked out on the climate change lottery if it means Stowe will be getting more snow than Alta in the future.



Figures..I plan to move west with the hope that I will experience REAL winter with snow, not rain. I'll take sunny and dry though. I can camp and hike, just like I did the day after Christmas when it was 50 degrees and I got to hike and camp out. Can you really complain about this? 

 It's been snowy since then so I'm happy enough to ski when I can. 

 I guess it's like that Crowded House song: "Everywhere you go, you take the weather with you".


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 21, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I didnt go go UVM.
> 
> If it was 10 degrees at the top, it would be fine.  The times I'm talking about were far worse than that, and I'm not driving 6 to 7 hours to ski in -20s (or worse) perceived and/or have wind delays (or worse).



St Mike's?


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## Jully (Feb 21, 2015)

yeggous said:


> The bottom line is that years as a whole are trending warmer. However, there is a lot of evidence that suggests that cold air outbreaks and snow in New England, particularly in February, are getting more severe. It is largely related to a reduction in Arctic sea ice. You can take my word for it or engage me further.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



New England is slated to receive a 60 to 70% increase in precipitation while the west is going to lose that much if not more.

 If you wanna ski out west you better move to Canada!


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> I guess it's like that Crowded House song: "Everywhere you go, you take the weather with you".



Crowded House rules.  Gotta' be one of the most underrated bands of the 80s.



deadheadskier said:


> St Mike's?



I didn't go to school in Vermont, I moved to Vermont immediately after college (within 1 month of graduating).


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## deadheadskier (Feb 21, 2015)

my bad.  your dialogue here always made you seem like a Burlington college student at one point.  I thought we were scholastic brahs.  Apparently not.  :lol:


----------



## Wavewheeler (Feb 22, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Crowded House rules.  Gotta' be one of the most underrated bands of the 80s.



Always tended to think of it as a '90s band but I guess yeah, they started up in the mid-late '80s. I just listened to them a lot in the '90s, along with Collective Soul. 




> I didn't go to school in Vermont, I moved to Vermont immediately after college (within 1 month of graduating).



And you wound up in NJ? At least I have the excuse that I was raised here.


----------



## goldsbar (Feb 22, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> It couldn't possibly be either of these two things:
> 
> Slow old lifts compared to high speed gondolas, quads, and triples...



This and the fact that the clothing most people had was nowhere near as good as what you can buy now.


----------



## goldsbar (Feb 22, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> Figures..I plan to move west with the hope that I will experience REAL winter with snow, not rain.



I wouldn't worry much about it.  Before the Olympics, I was at Whistler in the worst year in xx years.  It was far better than the Catskills.  I've never seen Jackson Hole, Alta or Snowbird be truly bad.  Maybe by local standards, but always better than the the East.  Sugarbush, MRG (and I'm sure Stowe and Jay, but never been) are the only places when in good shape that can give a crappy year in the West a run for the money.  That said, I understand parts of the Sierra range have been really bad these last few years.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 22, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> my bad.  your dialogue here always made you seem like a Burlington college student at one point.  I thought we were scholastic brahs.  Apparently not.  :lol:



Nope.  But I had roommates, coworkers, and friends who all went there and I went to plenty of the parties.   I lived stumbling-distance to Church Street, which was great.  Caught the tail-end of the years when it was on that top-10 party schools in America list.  Before the admin figured out parents dont like that and it's bad for business.



Wavewheeler said:


> Always tended to think of it as a '90s band but I guess yeah, they started up in the mid-late '80s. I just listened to them a lot in the '90s, *along with Collective Soul.*



One of my favorite bands of the era, have seen them in concert 3 or 4 times (only once since the Ross Childress bombshell, just not the same since he left).




Wavewheeler said:


> And you wound up in NJ? At least I have the excuse that I was raised here.



I was born and raised in NJ too.  Like everyone else I'm trying to leave.  I want to flee to eastern Pennsylvania like the rest of my high school class.


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## Rowsdower (Feb 23, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I was born and raised in NJ too.  Like everyone else I'm trying to leave.  I want to flee to eastern Pennsylvania like the rest of my high school class.



Join us! We're moving in two weeks. 

Although part of me is sort of uncomfortable about this. I grew up in Berks County and saw the influx of Jersey transplants to the Lehigh Valley and the huge amount of development that followed. I worry that in ten or twenty years PA will be just as expensive and dysfunctional as Jersey. Hopefully that's not the case, and it does seem like the drive-till-you-qualify development has slowed down considerably from the pace it was at ten years ago.


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## hammer (Feb 23, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I was born and raised in NJ too.  Like everyone else I'm trying to leave.  I want to flee to eastern Pennsylvania like the rest of my high school class.



Born in PA but grew up on the shore...went to college in Boston and never turned back.  Have family there but they are more into water sports (boating, fishing) and some will hunt in the winters.  I didn't even start up skiing until I was almost 40.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 23, 2015)

Rowsdower said:


> I grew up in Berks County and saw the influx of Jersey transplants to the Lehigh Valley and the huge amount of development that followed. I worry that in ten or twenty years PA will be just as expensive and dysfunctional as Jersey.



I'm in the exploration phase. 

I love Upper Black Eddy and the areas just west, north, and south of there, and I don't think I'd want to go much further west than 611 due to increasing drive times.  I really need to explore and learn more about the entire area.  I'm well acquainted with PA points along 78 and south and think it's beautiful, but I know nothing about the border PA areas north of 78 like Wind Gap, Bangor, Martin's Creek etc...  I'm looking for rural, but not desolate, if that makes sense.

EDIT: Where are you moving to?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 23, 2015)

Continuing the _"poor ski area weekend attendance due to cold"_ theme, look at the Friday, Saturday, Sunday "wake-up temps" this weekend.

Predicted to be negatives every day (and keep in mind, these are NOT mountain temps).


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## Root16 (Feb 23, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I think it's just been so punishing in the South that the non-diehards don't want to do a thing on weekends except sleep.  I doubt it's the temperatures as much as it's people worn out from normal 30 minute commutes on public transportation being 2 hours (if they even have public trans available), road commuting nearly twice as long as well.  Combine that with worrying about your roof collapsing, burning massive snow days to stay home with the kids.  Yeah, no one's leaving home from inside the 495 belt.  They've given up on life until spring.  :lol:  whenever that might be.........


Living in Boston, I've basically spent all my free time shoveling snow instead of skiing. Yesterday at Catamount in the Berkshires (visiting friends) the high was 37F with 4 inches of snow the night before, yet there were no lift lines. It was great for those that were there, but puzzling.


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## bigbog (Feb 23, 2015)

Shredder of Gnar said:


> ........Dress warm and ski hard....



+1


----------



## bigbog (Feb 23, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm in the exploration phase.
> 
> I love Upper Black Eddy and the areas just west, north, and south of there, and I don't think I'd want to go much further west than 611 due to increasing drive times.  I really need to explore and learn more about the entire area.  I'm well acquainted with PA points along 78 and south and think it's beautiful, but I know nothing about the border PA areas north of 78 like Wind Gap, Bangor, Martin's Creek etc...  I'm looking for rural, but not desolate, if that makes sense.
> 
> EDIT: Where are you moving to?



Just my guess but imho mileage and cost of filling up(or not having to at all) are on the agenda for carmakers.  However if states would get off their butts and create avenues of high-speed rail it would solve a LOT of problems...access to jobs and to commutes...etc.
But then it takes committment to the future, which not many politicians have.
$.01


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## Cannonball (Feb 23, 2015)

During the vacation week we skied Loon, Cannon(x3), and Bretton Woods. We went bell-to-bell every day.  We never waited in a lift line longer than 2-3 chairs. For lunch each day we found a table for 5 at noon-ish with zero wait.  I cannot believe how dead it was everywhere.  The resorts must be tearing their hair out.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 23, 2015)

The average skier needs to get a clue. The ski season does not consist of a few weekends in January and February.

Hopefully we'll have an epic spring this year and the resorts will make their $ from the die hards who are still skiing until the end. If the half-assers missed out because it was chilly, and then were too clueless to ski even more in the spring, well better luck next year!


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## 4aprice (Feb 23, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> During the vacation week we skied Loon, Cannon(x3), and Bretton Woods. We went bell-to-bell every day.  We never waited in a lift line longer than 2-3 chairs. For lunch each day we found a table for 5 at noon-ish with zero wait.  I cannot believe how dead it was everywhere.  The resorts must be tearing their hair out.



That sounds awesome.  Very jealous.  Sure would love to base myself out of Lincoln.  Underated ski town (back to our discussions in the fall) IMO.    

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## mister moose (Feb 23, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> The masses aren't diehards.



It's also about getting used to it.  After 15 below and 35mph winds for days, I shoveled the deck in 10F no wind in my shirt sleeves.

As far as no lines at Catamount for 4" of fresh, 4" these days in VT is just dew.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 23, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> *The average skier needs to get a clue. The ski season does not consist of a few weekends in January and February.*



I could be wrong, but it's my perception that the average skier does indeed ski,_ "a few weekends in January and February."   _If they thought otherwise, they'd be the diehards.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 23, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I could be wrong, but it's my perception that the average skier does indeed ski,_ "a few weekends in January and February."   _If they thought otherwise, they'd be the diehards.



The difference between a skier and a person who owns a pair of skis.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 23, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> The average skier needs to get a clue. The ski season does not consist of a few weekends in January and February.


Cold matters.  It may not matter to the diehards, but that's like saying that just because elite beer drinker's don't drink Budweiser that Budweiser isn't a major part of the market.  

I can understand why so many people have a short season.  First, the snow is a crap shoot early in the year.  If you are spending a lot of money to go skiing it makes sense to do it when the conditions will be best.  Second, children's spring sports are starting earlier and earlier.  I know of more than one baseball program that has already begun indoor practice.  I don't blame someone for skipping out on a couple of weekends later in the season if skiing means that their child will be shut out of a sports activity for the whole spring season.

I don't think that these people need to "get a clue".  I think that they are balancing skiing with their overall life.  It's hard for me to argue with that.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 23, 2015)

Lows of -15 & windy tonight have me rethinking my plans for this week. Think I'll skip tomorrow & start skiing Wed. instead. Bitter cold returns Thurs./Fri. & I'll just have to deal with it.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 23, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I don't blame someone for skipping out on a couple of weekends later in the season if skiing means that their child will be shut out of a sports activity for the whole spring season.



Hey if you're into neglecting your children by supporting their passion for baseball rather than forcing them to lap Superstar every weekend until June -- you're part of the problem, not the solution!


----------



## dlague (Feb 23, 2015)

A friend of mine (non-skier) wanted to take his family tubing at McIntyre yesterday and said the parking lot was packed and people were parking down the streets.  Goes to show how the warmer temps helped there.

In our case this has been the best season for our family.  The cold temps have not been a deterrent and we have experienced some of the best conditions we have seen in a long time.  I do have to admit, I think the weather system reported for Saturday Night did keep people away.  Black Mountain was dead but I did here Cannon was busy.  My guess people were flocking to the bigger mountains.  On Sunday the conditions at Cannon were great and it was ski on.  On our way home we did experience the slower skier traffic pattern Just before Concord NH.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> On our way home we did experience the slower skier traffic pattern Just before Concord NH.



I-91 got backed up several times, stop and go on the way to Mass yesterday late afternoon. Bolton Valley's lots were packed Sat and Sun (though empty Friday).

If the ski resorts didn't make $ this weekend it's not due to lack of skiers.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> A friend of mine (non-skier) wanted to take his family tubing at McIntyre yesterday and said *the parking lot was packed and people were parking down the streets.  Goes to show how the warmer temps helped there.*



Ditto for Plattekill.   

Yesterday the lots were filled and people parked on the road, busier than President's Saturday.


----------



## 4aprice (Feb 23, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Lows of -15 & windy tonight have me rethinking my plans for this week. Think I'll skip tomorrow & start skiing Wed. instead. Bitter cold returns Thurs./Fri. & I'll just have to deal with it.



Funny thing is I think I'm actually semi starting to get used to the cold. Yesterday felt really warm (in the high 20's).  Just think what it will feel like when it breaks into the 40's.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## ceo (Feb 23, 2015)

I actually bagged a 3-day vacation at Smuggs after the first day because it was so brutally cold and windy I wasn't having any fun, and my son refused to go out again after his lesson. (Didn't help that my younger son got sick.) I grew up skiing at Cannon, so it's not like I'm not used to cold or don't have the proper gear for it. 

Was pretty sad about it because that day (Friday) was the first skiing I'd managed all year, between the blizzards and everything else. Did get to Cannon yesterday, which was really nice.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 23, 2015)

I've said it before and I'll say it again - no matter how much you spend on gear, skiing with younger children on super cold days is a REAL challenge.  I don't blame people for feeling like it's not worth the hassle.


----------



## dlague (Feb 23, 2015)

ceo said:


> I actually bagged a 3-day vacation at Smuggs after the first day because it was so brutally cold and windy I wasn't having any fun, and my son refused to go out again after his lesson. (Didn't help that my younger son got sick.) I grew up skiing at Cannon, so it's not like I'm not used to cold or don't have the proper gear for it.
> 
> Was pretty sad about it because that day (Friday) was the first skiing I'd managed all year, between the blizzards and everything else. Did get to Cannon yesterday, which was really nice.



Yes it was very nice at Cannon!  Too bad about Smuggs!  Lucky for me our 12 year old hangs with us on the cold days!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 23, 2015)

It looks like the 24/25 solar minimum just started, which could turn out to be Dalton-like or otherwise protracted.

Might be a good time to invest in long underwear.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 24, 2015)

I like how Tuna thinks you aren't a man or a skier unless you ski in -20.


----------



## soulseller (Feb 24, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> During the vacation week we skied Loon, Cannon(x3), and Bretton Woods. We went bell-to-bell every day.  We never waited in a lift line longer than 2-3 chairs. For lunch each day we found a table for 5 at noon-ish with zero wait.  I cannot believe how dead it was everywhere.  The resorts must be tearing their hair out.




Even Loon? 
I haven't been there in years because I can't handle the crowds.


----------



## HD333 (Feb 24, 2015)

I think the news did a good job scaring people away. 
Okemo was DEAD over Feb Vacation.  Not just the mountain  but bars/restaurants. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 24, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> I like how Tuna thinks you aren't a man or a skier unless you ski in -20.



Real men scoff in the face of frostbite.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 24, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again - no matter how much you spend on gear, skiing with younger children on super cold days is a REAL challenge.  I don't blame people for feeling like it's not worth the hassle.



Hassle or the risk. I'm not sure my eight-year-old really understands when she is in danger of frostbite.


----------



## marcski (Feb 24, 2015)

Harvey said:


> Hassle or the risk. I'm not sure my eight-year-old really understands when she is in danger of frostbite.



On the super, super cold days, I just keep the kids inside at home.  Then, I get to ski hard with the boys, which keeps me warm, toasty, tired and very happy by the end of the day.


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## hammer (Feb 24, 2015)

I wonder if the next few weeks will be busier than usual if the temps moderate...


----------



## drjeff (Feb 24, 2015)

hammer said:


> I wonder if the next few weeks will be busier than usual if the temps moderate...



What some are hoping, is that due to the unusually deep snow packs down in the I-95 corridor where so many reside, is that the start of outdoor "spring sports" (golfing, kids baseball/softball, soccer, etc) will have to be delayed due to unplayable field conditions and as such that typical large scale "pull" away from skiing and into the spring sports that often starts right after St Patrick's Day will be delayed a few weeks and business levels won't fall off quickly and dramatically as they often do in the 2nd 1/2 of March and beyond....

Time will tell


----------



## Whitey (Feb 24, 2015)

drjeff said:


> What some are hoping, is that due to the unusually deep snow packs down in the I-95 corridor where so many reside, is that the start of outdoor "spring sports" (golfing, kids baseball/softball, soccer, etc) will have to be delayed due to unplayable field conditions and as such that typical large scale "pull" away from skiing and into the spring sports that often starts right after St Patrick's Day will be delayed a few weeks and business levels won't fall off quickly and dramatically as they often do in the 2nd 1/2 of March and beyond....
> 
> Time will tell



We had our first indoor lacrosse practice yesterday.   The discussion among the coaches was if the fields would even be open in time for the first games that start at the end of April.   I think your "extend the season" logic is valid.   I know I'll be skiing later because my weekends won't be taken up with practice or games until much later.


----------



## KevinF (Feb 24, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> The average skier needs to get a clue. The ski season does not consist of a few weekends in January and February.
> 
> Hopefully we'll have an epic spring this year and the resorts will make their $ from the die hards who are still skiing until the end. If the half-assers missed out because it was chilly, and then were too clueless to ski even more in the spring, well better luck next year!



Diehards skiing until the end are usually season pass holders...  the resort isn't getting any money from them in terms of ticket sales, although they'll still get something in terms of lunch sales.  Many are locals who will ski the morning though and just go home when they get hungry.

As far as ski areas are concerned, the "season" is XMAS week, MLK weekend and President's Week.

Do we need to rehash the "why do ski areas close in April while 100% open" question again?


----------



## KevinF (Feb 24, 2015)

drjeff said:


> What some are hoping, is that due to the unusually deep snow packs down in the I-95 corridor where so many reside, is that the start of outdoor "spring sports" (golfing, kids baseball/softball, soccer, etc) will have to be delayed due to unplayable field conditions and as such that typical large scale "pull" away from skiing and into the spring sports that often starts right after St Patrick's Day will be delayed a few weeks and business levels won't fall off quickly and dramatically as they often do in the 2nd 1/2 of March and beyond....
> 
> Time will tell



I'm guessing that most people are so sick of cold and snow that once it does finally start to warm up that they're not going to feel like driving north to find more cold and more snow.


----------



## hammer (Feb 24, 2015)

drjeff said:


> What some are hoping, is that due to the unusually deep snow packs down in the I-95 corridor where so many reside, is that the start of outdoor "spring sports" (golfing, kids baseball/softball, soccer, etc) will have to be delayed due to unplayable field conditions and as such that typical large scale "pull" away from skiing and into the spring sports that often starts right after St Patrick's Day will be delayed a few weeks and business levels won't fall off quickly and dramatically as they often do in the 2nd 1/2 of March and beyond....
> 
> Time will tell


The part of me that wants the business to do well hopes that business will keep up later in the season.  The part of me that doesn't want crowds in March hopes that people move on the spring activities regardless of how much white is on the ground in the flatlands.


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 24, 2015)

KevinF said:


> Diehards skiing until the end are usually season pass holders...  the resort isn't getting any money from them in terms of ticket sales, although they'll still get something in terms of lunch sales.  Many are locals who will ski the morning though and just go home when they get hungry.
> 
> As far as ski areas are concerned, the "season" is XMAS week, MLK weekend and President's Week.
> 
> Do we need to rehash the "why do ski areas close in April while 100% open" question again?



I agree that most areas make their bank during the mid-winter holiday weeks.  But I disagree about where the diehards spend their late season money.  As a season pass holder, it isn't until late season that I really start spending money at other places.  Long, warm days mean that long drives are more welcome.  I start traveling much further, much more often.  Also Cannon closes early-ish in the season so in April I have to head other places.  Also I end up spending a whole lot more on apres beers on the deck when the spring sun is out.   Additionally, the vibe of the spring season can make or break a person's decision to re-up on a season pass.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 24, 2015)

Dude, you are clearly making their nut by buying a couple beers on a deck in the spring. I'm sure they are counting on that, and not the thousands of tourists from NYC buying beers during holiday weeks.


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 24, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Dude, you are clearly making their nut by buying a couple beers on a deck in the spring. I'm sure they are counting on that, and not the thousands of tourists from NYC buying beers during holiday weeks.



What part of "I agree that most areas make their bank during the mid-winter holiday weeks." don't you understand?  Isn't only like 4pm out there?  Are you already on the sauce?


----------



## Rowsdower (Feb 24, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> What part of "I agree that most areas make their bank during the mid-winter holiday weeks." don't you understand?  Isn't only like 4pm out there?  Are you already on the sauce?



You don't like a comfortable mid-afternoon beer buzz? I generally pack a sixer with lunch. Is that not a thing for anyone else?


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 24, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> What part of "I agree that most areas make their bank during the mid-winter holiday weeks." don't you understand?  Isn't only like 4pm out there?  Are you already on the sauce?



Have you heard of the term Apres?


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 24, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> Have you heard of the term Apres?



oiu


----------



## Rowsdower (Feb 24, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm in the exploration phase.
> 
> I love Upper Black Eddy and the areas just west, north, and south of there, and I don't think I'd want to go much further west than 611 due to increasing drive times.  I really need to explore and learn more about the entire area.  I'm well acquainted with PA points along 78 and south and think it's beautiful, but I know nothing about the border PA areas north of 78 like Wind Gap, Bangor, Martin's Creek etc...  I'm looking for rural, but not desolate, if that makes sense.
> 
> EDIT: Where are you moving to?



North of 78 gets you more towards the desolate side of the spectrum. South of the Blue Mountain you're still in the Lehigh Valley, which is a mix of rural and suburban areas. That area has gotten very built up in the last 10-20 years. North of the Blue Mountain gets much more rural. If you can commute via I-80 the Stroudsburg area might be in play, but I'm not sure where in Jersey you are commuting to. That would be too far probably if you had to get back to I-78. 

South of that in Bucks Co. its split: west of 611 is much more suburban while the area between Newtown, the Delaware River, and 611 is largely rural, but still close to most everything. Bucks Co. will be more expensive though since its in the Philly metro. There are some gorgeous parts of each area. 

We'll be moving to the Yardley area since I'm commuting up to New Brunswick. It's also good because I can apply for jobs in either the Philly or Princeton areas, and there's a lot of stuff in the biomed field in both those regions so it should aid in the job hunt. Bit further of a drive to the Pokes than I have now. I'm looking at 1hr 45min to Camelback versus 1hr 30min from Piscataway, and the Catskills are probably out of day trip range now, but all things considered we're finding it to be worth it. We get a small detached house (2bd, 1bath), basement, and front/back yards for the same price we'd pay for a studio apartment in North Jersey. It's actually closer to skiing with Bear Creek being and hour away. It's a mole hill, but its there I suppose. Blue Mountain is also closer as another option over Camelback.


----------



## Puck it (Feb 24, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> oiu


Parlez vous francais?


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 24, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Parlez vous francais?



si nécessaire. Apres ski, plus de vin, avez-vous la marijuana?, ménage a trois?


----------



## Wavewheeler (Feb 24, 2015)

Rowsdower said:


> I worry that in ten or twenty years PA will be just as expensive and dysfunctional as Jersey. Hopefully that's not the case, and it does seem like the drive-till-you-qualify development has slowed down considerably from the pace it was at ten years ago.



It's already happening. To me, PA isn't much different. Same with the Carolinas...overrun with Yankees and development and the last place I want to go. If I was staying on the East Coast I'd head up to northern New England or the Daks. 

 I remember when NJ was actually a nice place that people moved TO as opposed to fleeing from. My parents moved from NYC in the '60s. Now I'm leaving as fast as I can. I want a real change in scenery. I'm packing up and heading to the Rockies..Idaho and Utah along with Colorado tops the list but I'm keeping an open mind. I just hope that they don't hate people from NJ as much as the California transplants. 

I love and want snow but if dry and sunny is what I'm in store for I can deal with it because I also love to backpack/hike/camp and kayak.  Anything is better than the wet, damp winters and hot humid rainy spring/summers here in NJ. I hate rain and humidity with a passion. Everyone says "but you are near the beach". I could care less about the beach. I've always loved mountains and fresh water..you can keep the salt water and sand. 

I'm just looking forward to a change in lifestyle and to get the hell out of NJ. Been wanting to leave for years. I'm only hear until my kids graduate and they are moving out too.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 24, 2015)

Ok, in any case, this week looks like some great skiing weather. No more vacationers and temps look to be in the warm 20s-30s the rest of the week. Going to take my daughter skiing tomorrow at Blue Mountain (she can only do a day trip) then head up to Belleayre on Friday and do some cross country skiing at Minnewaska on Saturday. If it's nice next week I'll do it again!

Last year the season lasted well into spring. My daughter and I headed up to Killington in mid March on her "spring break" to do some great skiing after they received record snowfall. You never know, some of the biggest storms have been in March and with moderating temperatures the resorts will probably pick up.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 24, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again - no matter how much you spend on gear, skiing with younger children on super cold days is a REAL challenge.  I don't blame people for feeling like it's not worth the hassle.



I was lucky in that my daughter is a real trooper. When she was 12 we went up to Windham and the TEMPERATURE was -30. We were watching The Weather Channel and I said "Do you really want to ski in this?" She insisted so we got her geared up properly and spent the day skiing. High temperature that day was around 0 degrees. What a great kid...she never complains. She should be a Marine. :razz:

She went with her college buddies skiing over Christmas break at Camelback in what single  digits-teens and was giving everyone who wasn't going skiing because of the cold a hard time. That's my girl!


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## steamboat1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> Ok, in any case, this week looks like some great skiing weather. No more vacationers and temps look to be in the warm 20s-30s the rest of the week.


I guess you're not looking at the same forecast I'm looking at for Thurs.-Fri.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 25, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> I guess you're not looking at the same forecast I'm looking at for Thurs.-Fri.


\

I'm further south than you so maybe it doesn't look bad? Tomorrow (Wed) supposed to hit 30.  Sun and mid teens-20s is what's called for on Thursday-Friday with little wind.. Getting into high 20s on Saturday. I'll be going to Belleayre Friday and X country skiing Saturday.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> \
> 
> I'm further south than you so maybe it doesn't look bad? Tomorrow (Wed) supposed to hit 30.  Sun and mid teens-20s is what's called for on Thursday-Friday with little wind.. Getting into high 20s on Saturday. I'll be going to Belleayre Friday and X country skiing Saturday.


After a little warm up tomorrow Thurs. high 4 Fri. high 10. At least that's the forecast for my corner of ski country. Wanted to go up today but I'm bagging it for this week. Hopefully temps will moderate a little next week so I can ski Mon.-Fri. I got some making up to do.


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## dlague (Feb 25, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> I was lucky in that my daughter is a real trooper. When she was 12 we went up to Windham and the TEMPERATURE was -30. We were watching The Weather Channel and I said "Do you really want to ski in this?" She insisted so we got her geared up properly and spent the day skiing. High temperature that day was around 0 degrees. What a great kid...she never complains. She should be a Marine. :razz:
> 
> She went with her college buddies skiing over Christmas break at Camelback in what single  digits-teens and was giving everyone who wasn't going skiing because of the cold a hard time. That's my girl!



My 12 year old is the same, the cold does not bother him much - and this season he has come to expect it.  A day in the teens seems warm.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 26, 2015)

Was I the only one out shoveling/snow-blowing this past Sunday and thought "This is shorts weather!" Haha!

We were up at Mount Snow on Saturday the 21st and on the way up there the thermometer in the truck was reading -15.  It had warmed up to around 0 when we got there.  It was sunny all day and not much wind.  Then, the temperature went up when the snow came in.  Sure, it sucked driving almost double the amount of time it normally takes to get home, but it was worth it.  Snow was fantastic and the weather all day was really good due to low winds and the sun mostly being out.

Bring on the cold and snow!


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## dlague (Feb 26, 2015)

Jcb890 said:


> Was I the only one out shoveling/snow-blowing this past Sunday and thought "This is shorts weather!" Haha!
> 
> We were up at Mount Snow on Saturday the 21st and on the way up there the thermometer in the truck was reading -15.  It had warmed up to around 0 when we got there.  It was sunny all day and not much wind.  Then, the temperature went up when the snow came in.  Sure, it sucked driving almost double the amount of time it normally takes to get home, but it was worth it.  Snow was fantastic and the weather all day was really good due to low winds and the sun mostly being out.
> 
> Bring on the cold and snow!



Sunday evening I was out there in a short sleeve shirt and sweating just shoveling about 3 storms worth of snow.


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 26, 2015)

This past Sunday it was sunny and in the 40s and I was sweating bullets shoveling snow. I was working in sunny and 20 degrees and actually turned off the heater in my truck because it felt warm. 

Yesterday skied in perfect mid 30s, party sunny weather at Blue Mountain, Pa. It was awesome! Perfect late winter skiing conditions with packed powder, no wind. 

Today it's colder and supposed to be sunny, in the teens with little wind up in the Catskills tomorrow and Saturday. I will take it! Would I like it 10 degrees warmer? Yes, but with sun and no wind it'll be just fine. 

The weather is warming up. Down by me (at the Jersey Shore) the trend is for 40 degrees early next week. Fortunately it's staying colder up north so I'm hoping to get another ski outing in next week as well. It's only a matter of time though before I'll have to head even further north if I want to have fun in snow though. Eventually the white will turn wet..


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## Wavewheeler (Feb 26, 2015)

dlague said:


> My 12 year old is the same, the cold does not bother him much - and this season he has come to expect it.  A day in the teens seems warm.



My daughter is now 20 and we were talking about that -30 degree day. We laughed over it and recalled how the car wasn't happy about starting the tires went '*thump, thump, thump* all the way down the road on the way to the slopes. She asked me "How did you get me to go skiing in that?" I said "How did I get YOU out? You wanted to go out in it!" She laughed and said "I must've been nuts, you'd never get me out in that now. It's be a 'sit in the jacuzzi and drink beer day :beer:'. "

They grow up so fast..


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## Cannonball (Feb 27, 2015)

What the heck is going on?!?  This was LOON at 3pm today. Total cars = 1 (me). NH vacation week. Where is everyone?


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## Edd (Feb 27, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> What the heck is going on?!?  This was LOON at 3pm today. Total cars = 1 (me). NH vacation week. Where is everyone?
> View attachment 15932



That is strange. I was thinking SR was mellow on Tuesday for a vaca week but it was pretty cold. I was hoping to catch the Shipyard Brewpub open but no luck.


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## Terry (Feb 28, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> What the heck is going on?!?  This was LOON at 3pm today. Total cars = 1 (me). NH vacation week. Where is everyone?


They were all at Shawnee Peak yesterday. Parking lot was full of NH cars. Was hoping for a quiet day on the slopes but it was quite busy for a friday!


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## gmcunni (Feb 28, 2015)

Even a small hill that draws from nearby towns has issues with cold keeping people away.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2015)

Edd said:


> That is strange.



I'm think his post was a joke?



gmcunni said:


> Even a small hill that draws from nearby towns has  issues with cold keeping people away. View attachment 15948



Good for them.   

And it wouldn't surprise me if they're right.  Granted, there have been some brutally cold temps lately that would keep almost anyone away, but the "so cold you're going to die" stuff is getting a little ridiculous.  I imagine it could have an effect on the casuals.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 28, 2015)

Vermont's rooms and meals tax revenues are up 8.7%.  


.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> *Vermont's rooms and meals tax revenues are up 8.7%.  *



Give it time, they'll have it to 9.9% soon.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 28, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Give it time, they'll have it to 9.9% soon.



The article suggests that it's up from 2013, so it probably doesn't reflect this ski season too much.  


.


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## Cannonball (Feb 28, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm think his post was a joke?



huh? my post wasn't a joke. Loon was a ghost town on Friday of NH vacation week.  Literally nobody there. I got there in the afternoon and jumped straight on the lift with zero wait. I happened to ride with another guy (although it was dead enough to ride solo if you wanted to). He said that he'd been there all day and this was the most crowded he'd seen.  My pic of my car in the lot was actual and literal, 1 car in the lot at 3pm. Granted that was a satelite lot, but that lot is typically 50%-100% full on any given day.

Just like the thread title suggests, the resorts don't seem to be seeing the crowds you might expect given the amazing snow conditions.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> huh? my post wasn't a joke.



I thought you might have been joking because I didn't think there would literally be 1 car in the parking lot, and also because there doesn't seem to be a lot of snow in the photo (up in the mountains, tree clinging etc..).


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## Cannonball (Feb 28, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I thought you might have been joking because I didn't think there would literally be 1 car in the parking lot, and also because there doesn't seem to be a lot of snow in the photo (up in the mountains, tree clinging etc..).



no joke. the snow we've had has been cold and light so no clinging. We haven't had much fresh in the past few days.  That is truly, Loon's South Peak lot at 3pm yesterday. I took my dog for a walk there today at 4pm and the lot was 75% full. Good to see actually!


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## VTKilarney (Feb 28, 2015)

The crowds were definitely out this weekend.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 28, 2015)

Was at WA today for the Great Race and the mtn sold out around 11am. Lines totally sucked, even the singles line was tough. Once racing was done it was off to the bar!


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## Robbski (Mar 1, 2015)

Saturday at Waterville. Strange arc to the crowd.  Got there at 10 and the place was banged out with long lines.  Throughout the day the crowds diminished so that our last lift rides,at around 3, on Sunnyside and the main quad were ski on.  I Theorized that it was all property owner traffic hitting first tracks and heading off to sun bathe after wearing themselves out after a Beautiful bluebird day with great conditions.


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## skimagic (Mar 1, 2015)

Looks like the party is over,, rain line for Wednesday is going pretty far in the the Greens, followed by a freeze, sick day Monday advisable.


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## Edd (Mar 1, 2015)

skimagic said:


> Looks like the party is over,, rain line for Wednesday is going pretty far in the the Greens, followed by a freeze, sick day Monday advisable.



Kinda my fault. I took Wednesday off to ski so I'm responsible for the crappy weather.


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## Quietman (Mar 1, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> Was at WA today for the Great Race and the mtn sold out around 11am. Lines totally sucked, even the singles line was tough. Once racing was done it was off to the bar!



at Crotched, except for $9.29 midnight madness on Sat night which was slammed, the Rocket was pretty much ski on for the rest of the weekend, and the woods are still great!


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## deadheadskier (Mar 1, 2015)

Wish Crotched offered the $30 Sunday afternoon ticket like Attitash and Wildcat.  $35 for 2:30 to 5 isn't all that enticing


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## skiMEbike (Mar 2, 2015)

I ski SRiver 10-15 times per year, and this past Saturday was some of the worst lines I have seen there in years....Granted Barker & Jordan lifts can have a line at anytime of year, but the surprising thing to me was seeing lines on lifts which typically don't have them (or barely a line at all) like:  Aurora, Spruce, & NPeak, Tempest.   It didn't help that WHeat chair was down most of the day.   

On the busiest of days @ SRiver, you can almost always find a peak (or dare I say a "pod") and lift which is not busy, which Satruday was OZ & Locke chairs.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 2, 2015)

We were up at Mount Snow yesterday.  Early on it was pretty dead, but it definitely got pretty busy.  The whole mountain was open though and running well, so no crazy lines other than the usual at the Bluebird Express (bubble chair)


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## dlague (Mar 2, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Wish Crotched offered the $30 Sunday afternoon ticket like Attitash and Wildcat.  $35 for 2:30 to 5 isn't all that enticing



Especially when you can ski half day on Sundays at Sunapee for $39, Ragged for $32 and Okemo for $29 and there may be others.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 2, 2015)

Loon for $29


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## HD333 (Mar 2, 2015)

Okemo was the busiest I have seen it all year on Saturday. Friday and Yesterday not so much. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SkiFanE (Mar 2, 2015)

skiMEbike said:


> I ski SRiver 10-15 times per year, and this past Saturday was some of the worst lines I have seen there in years....Granted Barker & Jordan lifts can have a line at anytime of year, but the surprising thing to me was seeing lines on lifts which typically don't have them (or barely a line at all) like:  Aurora, Spruce, & NPeak, Tempest.   It didn't help that WHeat chair was down most of the day.
> 
> On the busiest of days @ SRiver, you can almost always find a peak (or dare I say a "pod") and lift which is not busy, which Satruday was OZ & Locke chairs.



For some reason Chondola went down in the afternoon.  But I was there Saturday and never waited more than a few minutes.  We were mostly on Spruce, Aurora and Oz.  But Locke was empty.  Barker we did singles.  The parking lot was crazy but I was surprised at how manageable the lines were, lol.  I guess it's all depend on the time of day and luck.  Spruce is 90% of the time is ski-on, but Saturday there were maybe 10 groups ahead of us - not bad in my book (unless you compare to ski-on).  Worst was WH lift on Sunday - they were loading every other (seems maybe from the smell they were running diesel?)  But even then it was 5 minutes...not the usual ski-on.


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## yeggous (Mar 2, 2015)

I was at MRG on Saturday for the first time ever. The snow was an amazing legit packed powder, but I could not believe the lines. 30 minutes for the single chair. We got a total of 6 runs all day. I'm used to getting that in the first hour! If I return to MRG, it will be midweek.

Sunday at Sugarbush was much better. The Super Bravo lift had nasty lines during peak hours, but you could easilly move elsewhere. I left very happy with my day.


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## ALLSKIING (Mar 2, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I was at MRG on Saturday for the first time ever. The snow was an amazing legit packed powder, but I could not believe the lines. 30 minutes for the single chair. We got a total of 6 runs all day. I'm used to getting that in the first hour! If I return to MRG, it will be midweek.
> 
> Sunday at Sugarbush was much better. The Super Bravo lift had nasty lines during peak hours, but you could easilly move elsewhere. I left very happy with my day.



Even with no lift lines you never get a ton of runs in at MRG. 10 runs at MRG feels like 20 any other place.


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## skiMEbike (Mar 2, 2015)

SkiFanE said:


> For some reason Chondola went down in the afternoon.  But I was there Saturday and never waited more than a few minutes.  We were mostly on Spruce, Aurora and Oz.  But Locke was empty.  Barker we did singles.  The parking lot was crazy but I was surprised at how manageable the lines were, lol.  I guess it's all depend on the time of day and luck.  Spruce is 90% of the time is ski-on, but Saturday there were maybe 10 groups ahead of us - not bad in my book (unless you compare to ski-on).  Worst was WH lift on Sunday - they were loading every other (seems maybe from the smell they were running diesel?)  But even then it was 5 minutes...not the usual ski-on.



Never have an issue getting up the Mtn @ SundayRiver (& didn't mean to imply that).  I was just curious what others (more regulars) observed....I just don't ever recall having a singles line (that actually was in use) at Spruce or Aurora, and you can always find an "empty" lift regardless of the crowds IMO.


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## 4aprice (Mar 2, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> The crowds were definitely out this weekend.



Find this comment very interesting.  I was at Burke Sat and maybe waited 2 min once or twice  (that's VTK's home isn't it?), then Stowe on Sunday where we were except for maybe once in the morning at Forerunner everything was practically walk on including the gondola.  I-87 was steady last night (outside of the snow which made for a long ride).

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## SkiFanE (Mar 2, 2015)

skiMEbike said:


> Never have an issue getting up the Mtn @ SundayRiver (& didn't mean to imply that).  I was just curious what others (more regulars) observed....I just don't ever recall having a singles line (that actually was in use) at Spruce or Aurora, and you can always find an "empty" lift regardless of the crowds IMO.



There are a few days when the singles at Spruce is in use every year.   But I don't think anything <10min wait is reportable.  Oddly...I don't know where the actual skiers were - since the slopes did not seem too crowded.  We had most glades to ourselves all weekend.  We thought about heading to Jordan, but instincts told us to stay away, probably be a cluster-fuck.  Northpeak was ski on 90% of the time this weekend too - have to say SR does a good job of spreading people around - just can't get stuck at Jordan or Chondola.  Thank goodness they fixed Locke in time for weekend.


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## VTKilarney (Mar 2, 2015)

4aprice said:


> Find this comment very interesting.  I was at Burke Sat and maybe waited 2 min once or twice  (that's VTK's home isn't it?), then Stowe on Sunday where we were except for maybe once in the morning at Forerunner everything was practically walk on including the gondola.  I-87 was steady last night (outside of the snow which made for a long ride).
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



You have to understand that at Burke crowds are a relative term.  By "crowded", that meant that there was a line in the first place - even if it was just a couple of minutes.  I observed two rows with about 10 groups or so in each row.  That's a true crowd by Burke standards.

For Burke, Saturday and Sunday had to have been some of their peak attendance days of the year.  There was a big race on Sunday, and that contributed to crowds.


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## crank (Mar 3, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I was at MRG on Saturday for the first time ever. The snow was an amazing legit packed powder, but I could not believe the lines. 30 minutes for the single chair. We got a total of 6 runs all day. I'm used to getting that in the first hour! If I return to MRG, it will be midweek.



You can save 15% on your car insurance with GEICO.


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## njdiver85 (Mar 3, 2015)

Mount Snow on this past Saturday was probably the busiest I've seen it in a long time.  And when I went to the 7-11 that evening, the checkout line was wrapped around the entire store.  By Sunday afternoon, the 7-11 had even run out of gas!


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## billski (Mar 4, 2015)

Well, if they can find a way to keep people skiing into April....


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## billski (Mar 4, 2015)

njdiver85 said:


> Mount Snow on this past Saturday was probably the busiest I've seen it in a long time.  And when I went to the 7-11 that evening, the checkout line was wrapped around the entire store.  By Sunday afternoon, the 7-11 had even run out of gas!


  Does that imply that the lifts from the base lodge looked obscene too?


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## billski (Mar 4, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I was at MRG on Saturday for the first time ever. The snow was an amazing legit packed powder, but I could not believe the lines. 30 minutes for the single chair. We got a total of 6 runs all day. I'm used to getting that in the first hour! If I return to MRG, it will be midweek


  The powderhounds must have been out in full force.  There is a fraternity of people,mostly guys, who only show up when the goods are at their best.


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