# Camera Choice



## EOS (Mar 8, 2010)

So viewing all these fabulous Skiing pictures on the forum has inspired me to look into purchasing a new camera (current camera is a 4yr old point and shoot) to carry with me while skiing.

Any suggestions on camera models and features I should check out specifically for outdoor/action shots?

Also, how does everyone choose to carry their cameras while skiing?

Thanks in advance
________
herbal vaporizers


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## EOS (Mar 9, 2010)

*Move This Post*

Mod's - I would rather not double post so would you mind moving this post to Northeast Skiing and Snowboarding Trip Reports?  That's probably where I should have posted it.

Thank you!!
________
GPZ900R


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## RootDKJ (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm using a Canon SD790IS.  It's small enough to fit into any pocket.


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## playoutside (Mar 9, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> I'm using a Canon SD790IS. It's small enough to fit into any pocket.


 
I have the same one...am very happy with it.  Easy to use, fits in a pocket, easy to switch to video mode which I've used more this year.  Only thing I sometimes want is a greater zoom, but my main goal when I bought it was to be sure I would bring it with me...my last one was too bulky to throw in a pocket.  Battery life in it's first year has been exellent...even during cold weather.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 9, 2010)

playoutside said:


> I have the same one...am very happy with it.  Easy to use, fits in a pocket, easy to switch to video mode which I've used more this year.  Only thing I sometimes want is a greater zoom, but* my main goal when I bought it was to be sure I would bring it with me*...my last one was too bulky to throw in a pocket.  Battery life in it's first year has been exellent...even during cold weather.


I would agree completely.    In terms of picture quality vs. size of the camera, this was a home run for me.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

i'm suddenly in need of a new camera now too.  i have a decent point and shoot and HAD a nice camcorder that was small enough to fit in my pants pocket but due to my stupidity the camcorder is dead.  Now I'm looking for a single camera for both GREAT stills and VERY GOOD video.

looking at the panasonic  ZS3 but read about some problems with the HD video format they use and incompatibility with Movie Maker.  

How's the video output on the Canon?


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## RootDKJ (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> How's the video output on the Canon?


It's ok.  Better if you don't zoom in.  All the video on the Blue Bump-n-Jump thread I did with my Canon.


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## Geoff (Mar 9, 2010)

I personally don't mind having a somewhat larger camera to get the better optics.   I'm really bummed that the Canon PowerShot G11 only does VGA video.   If it did 1080p, it would be the perfect camera.

The critical features for me are an optical viewfinder and a good optical zoom.   There aren't many cameras like that these days.


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## EOS (Mar 9, 2010)

Great!  Thanks for the replies.  I'll check out the mentioned models.

I'm wasn't concerned about it doing video, but after reading all the input, that should be in my decision process as well.
________
vaporizer reviews


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> It's ok.  Better if you don't zoom in.





Geoff said:


> The critical features for me are an optical viewfinder and a good optical zoom.   There aren't many cameras like that these days.



a good optical zoom is high on my list. The Panny does 12X optical zoom (my old camcorder, also panny, did 10x) .  image stabilization on video is also key.. realized after this past weekend that my helmet cam (got as a gift)  has none and basically it is worthless.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> a good optical zoom is high on my list. The Panny does 12X optical zoom (my old camcorder, also panny, did 10x) .  image stabilization on video is also key.. realized after this past weekend that my helmet cam (got as a gift)  has none and basically it is worthless.


My Canon is 3X optical & 4X digital.  I try not to use the digital zoom at all.  In video mode, the only option is a digital zoom.  I'm really not interested in doing much video, so that works well for me.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> My Canon is 3X optical & 4X digital.  I try not to use the digital zoom at all.  In video mode, the only option is a digital zoom.  I'm really not interested in doing much video, so that works well for me.



my still camera (canon) has the same specs. and, as you mentioned, if i don't zoom it does OK for video.  since my camcorder broke i'm focused on finding a replacement for that. I'd really like to find one device that does both, not sure how successful i'll be.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> my still camera (canon) has the same specs. and, as you mentioned, if i don't zoom it does OK for video.  since my camcorder broke i'm focused on finding a replacement for that. I'd really like to find one device that does both, not sure how successful i'll be.


How about a GoPro?  Toast from PASR has one of these, and used a bicycle light mount to attach it to one of his poles.  Pretty ingenious.


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## Greg (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> my still camera (canon) has the same specs. and, as you mentioned, if i don't zoom it does OK for video.  since my camcorder broke i'm focused on finding a replacement for that. I'd really like to find one device that does both, not sure how successful i'll be.



If I was in the market I would look for a Panasonic Lumix with at least an 8X optical zoom and HD video capabilty with zoom. I have an older Lumix (no HD) with I think a 10X optical zoom and it's a great camera. Bunch of pics I took with it yesterday:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=73564

I reworked the contrast/brightness on those shots and did some other editing (sharpening, etc.) but I think for a smallish point and shoot it takes great shots. Don't even consider digital zooms as they suck. Go for as much optical with IS as possible.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

Greg said:


> If I was in the market I would look for a Panasonic Lumix with at least an 8X optical zoom and HD video capabilty with zoom. I have an older Lumix (no HD) with I think a 10X optical zoom and it's a great camera. Bunch of pics I took with it yesterday:
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=73564
> 
> I reworked the contrast/brightness on those shots and did some other editing (sharpening, etc.) but I think for a smallish point and shoot it takes great shots. Don't even consider digital zooms as they suck. Go for as much optical with IS as possible.



i had the lumix ZS3 in my basket and ready to click PAY ($235, no shipping, no tax) but took a minute to read reviews.  apparently the HD video codec they use isn't readily supported by most of the video editing software packages.  found conflicting reviews as to whether Microsoft MM can read the file format.  The workaround is to use a different setting on the camera but that reportedly yields poor quality video.   in the end i'm only making videos for family stuff and quality isn't going to matter since it all just ends up on youtube or vimeo anyway.


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## o3jeff (Mar 9, 2010)

Gary, I think they are coming out with an new version of the zs3 in the coming months. I've been looking at the zs3 too, but am holding off to see what the new one has.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Gary, I think they are coming out with an new version of the zs3 in the coming months. I've been looking at the zs3 too, but am holding off to see what the new one has.



jeff, i found info on the new ZS7, is that the one you heard about?  seems to be brand new.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1001/10012605panazs7.asp


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## o3jeff (Mar 9, 2010)

Yea that could be it. I remember reading it had gps. I know costco had the zs3 on their website with an instant rebate the other week, if you don't like it you have 90 days to return it!


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Yea that could be it. I remember reading it had gps. I know costco had the zs3 on their website with an instant rebate the other week, if you don't like it you have 90 days to return it!



will recheck costco.. thought i saw the zs1 but if they have the 3 i'll buy and try.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> will recheck costco...



costco has the 3 for $299.. buy.com has the 3 for $237


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## playoutside (Mar 9, 2010)

I think you have already moved beyond this, but to be clear...the video I've done with the canon 790 is pretty rudimentary.  If you are used to a real video camera...this will seem silly to you.  I am mostly playing with little clips, not doing nice videos that some of you frequently post.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

playoutside said:


> ...the video I've done with the canon 790 is pretty rudimentary.  If you are used to a real video camera...this will seem silly to you.



i think i'm setting myself up for disappointment. I'm trying to find a combo device that does both good pictures and good video.    I've had cameras that do OK video and camcorders that do crappy pictures but i can't seem to find the balance i'm after (at the price i can afford).


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## Greg (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> i think i'm setting myself up for disappointment. I'm trying to find a combo device that does both good pictures and good video.    I've had cameras that do OK video and camcorders that do crappy pictures but i can't seem to find the balance i'm after (at the price i can afford).



I wouldn't be so sure. The ZS3 does a nice job with zooming HD video:


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## ta&idaho (Mar 9, 2010)

Embedded GPS on the ZS7 sounds like a stash burner ;-)


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## o3jeff (Mar 9, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> costco has the 3 for $299.. buy.com has the 3 for $237



Sale must of ended last week, IIRC they had a $50 or $75 instant rebate on it.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Sale must of ended last week, IIRC they had a $50 or $75 instant rebate on it.



just my luck.. would have ran to costco tonight to grab one if they had them at the same price as buy.com.. but just pulled the trigger online so will have in a few days.


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## Geoff (Mar 9, 2010)

Greg said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. The ZS3 does a nice job with zooming HD video:



No optical viewfinder.  A deal killer for me.   I need a camera I can use without reading glasses.

The Panny HDC-TM300K camcorder is on my wish list but the MSRP is $1,299.   I've never seen it more than 20%-off.   With infinite money, I'd do that and a Canon Powershot G11.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2010)

Geoff said:


> No optical viewfinder.  A deal killer for me.   I need a camera I can use without reading glasses.



this will be my first camera without an optical viewfinder. don't wear glasses but always preferred the optical version.


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## riverc0il (Mar 9, 2010)

ZS3 is a really good option. The new models are about ready to hit the market, so if you plan on getting the ZS3, make sure you are paying well under normal retail pricing. Low 200s sounds about right. That is a lot of camera for just over two bills. I doubt the ZS7 has enough enhancements to warrant waiting and paying full retail.

Personally, I am holding out to see what the photo quality reviews are like on Samsungs new top end P&S cameras. Never thought I would be excited about Samsung but their new TL500 looks absolutely sick and likely to compete favorably with the Canon G series. TL350 looks incredible for those more interested in zoom and not as concerned about picture quality, 10 fps at full res, IIRC.


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## o3jeff (Mar 10, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> just my luck.. would have ran to costco tonight to grab one if they had them at the same price as buy.com.. but just pulled the trigger online so will have in a few days.



Make sure you post a review after you've used it and some sample pics and video!


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## gmcunni (Mar 10, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Make sure you post a review after you've used it and some sample pics and video!



i'll post the pics and video, you can do the review ;-)


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## gmcunni (Mar 12, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Make sure you post a review after you've used it and some sample pics and video!



first impression -  it's going back to the store

NOTE - i got this to replace my video camera so i am judging it mostly on that aspect.  
NOTE 2 - i've not really shot any real video or taken any pictures i intended to keep, just test stuff in my office.

size - OK. about the same size as my old panasonc camcorder, slightly smaller than my current dig cam, canon.

I stuffed my 8 gig mem card in the camera and started testing video.. using the AVCHD format i was going to get a respectable 1 hour on the card.  problem is the AVCHD format does not work well with any of the video editing software i currently own and use.   Panasonic's option is to use a basic HD codec BUT then i only get 8 minutes on the 8 gig card... i guess i could go with a 64 G card but not sure the camera can read one that big plus then i'm working with HUGE files.

it really is a camera, you hold it like a camera.  no tilt screen means i can't hold it high or low and tilt the screen to see what's going on. 

record button is in an odd spot.  not a thumb trigger like a "traditional" camcorder has.  

zoom is slow - zooming in while recording is very slow. zooming out is better.


will give it a better workout this weekend and make a final decision monday on whether to keep it or not.


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## o3jeff (Mar 13, 2010)

Maybe try one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/VARIATION-PARENT-PlaySport-Waterproof-Pocket/dp/B0032Z73B4/ref=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&n=502394&s=photo

Not a lot of reviews on the net since it is new. Only thing it seems to be missing is a flash for the stills


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## EOS (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the recommendations and info!!
________
Ducati ST4


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## Chunk (Mar 21, 2010)

spend the money and get a good DSLR its fun learning how to use them and you can get some amazing shots!!


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## EOS (Mar 21, 2010)

Chunk said:


> spend the money and get a good DSLR its fun learning how to use them and you can get some amazing shots!!



Thanks Chunk.  I'm actually leaning that way.  I know it's more than I need right now, but it's something that I think will be great for the long run.

You have any suggestions for me?  There are some pretty good deals on the Canon Rebel T1i now that the T2i just came out (and video isn't important to me)...
________
vape


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## riverc0il (Mar 21, 2010)

DLSR is a great idea for the quality but I imagine it must be difficult practically. An ideal camera for skiing should be small enough to slip into a pocket and not require time to attach a lens. You should also consider the easier a camera is to use while skiing, the more likely you are to use it.


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## severine (Mar 21, 2010)

I have a DSLR. Yup, you can't beat the quality of the photos...but it's a pain in the rear to carry that around. Especially with a zoom lens. Lot of weight and bulk. I bring mine out for events like the S7 but I don't ski with it normally. If you do decide to mess around with DSLRs though, you don't have to buy new. Photography on the Net is a forum like this for Canon enthusiasts. I got my 10D body used on there for about $200. It's an older prosumer line... but I would recommend the 20D over it (used to have that and it was worth the extra money; the 10D has some issues with non-proprietary lenses and my zoom is a Sigma). 

I am still on the quest for an adequate point-and-shoot. Still not happy and I've been through a Panasonic Lumix and a Nikon Coolpix. The problem is that the pictures just never are as good as the DSLR so I get really irritated by the results...


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## gmcunni (Mar 21, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> DLSR is a great idea for the quality but I imagine it must be difficult practically. An ideal camera for skiing should be small enough to slip into a pocket and not require time to attach a lens. You should also consider the easier a camera is to use while skiing, the more likely you are to use it.



everything you said plus rugged (i don't want to worry about it getting wet or me falling on it and it breaking) and affordable (i will eventually fall and break it)

i really like the panasonic i just got for pictures but it comes up short on the video side so i'm sending it back.


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## gmcunni (Mar 21, 2010)

*panasonic lumix dmc-zs3*

final review before i send it back unless in find some new info in the next couple of days.
note - i'm a casual photographer. don't know any technical stuff about white balance, aperture, ISO speeds or anything like that. just want a simple point and shoot that produces great results at an affordable price.

general
Price - $230 @ buy.com, free shipping, no tax
size - fits easily in my ski pants leg pocket

CAMERA - 
Love it as a straight digital camera (still pictures)
10 mega pixels produced nice looking photos
camera controls pretty straight forward, buttons a bit small on the back but managable
12X zoom is great for capturing things not right next to you.
shutter lag - excellent, i was able to catch some people doing jumps. see them in the air, click the button and not miss the shot

VIDEO -
pros - size and 12x optical zoom

but here's where my problems lay.
camera records HD video and uses a codec called  AVCHD.  it records high quality video in a very compressed format.  the problem is that none of the software i own for editing can read these files.  I shot the sundown footage this weekend in AVCHD mode and it was painful to work with the files. I had to use 2 different programs to convert the files so i could finally get them in a format i could edit on my MAC (couldn't get them to my windows PC)

Panasonic recommends NOT using AVCHD if you plan to edit, AVCHD should only be used for direct playback on the TV. They recommend Motion JPEG for recording video that will be edited. This results in a MOV file (apple quicktime format) and only supports  4:3 format.  File sizes are huge with MJPEG. I have to use the lowest quality setting to store 1 hour of video on an 8 gig card.   The HD option for MJPEG only records 8 minutes of video on the 8 gig card.


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## o3jeff (Mar 22, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> final review before i send it back unless in find some new info in the next couple of days.
> note - i'm a casual photographer. don't know any technical stuff about white balance, aperture, ISO speeds or anything like that. just want a simple point and shoot that produces great results at an affordable price.
> 
> general
> ...


You going back to a video camera then?


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## severine (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm really interested in what your opinion is of that Kodak video camera, Jeff. The lack of an optical zoom bothers me, but it's cool that it's waterproof to 10 ft.


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## gmcunni (Mar 22, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> You going back to a video camera then?



i guess so.. this weekend i found i really liked being able to do both video and still pictures.  i've been watching a few panasonic camcorders on ebay, the same as i had + a newer model, if i could score one of those at a good price i'd be happy.

in talking with my daughter last night i found she was bummed i was returning the camera.  i told her i'd give it another few days of playing with the MJPEG settings to see if i could be happy with it.  .MOV files aren't the worst thing in the world to deal with.


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## o3jeff (Mar 22, 2010)

severine said:


> I'm really interested in what your opinion is of that Kodak video camera, Jeff. The lack of an optical zoom bothers me, but it's cool that it's waterproof to 10 ft.



I should have it for this weekend to do some recording after everyone gets loaded up!


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## severine (Mar 22, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> I should have it for this weekend to do some recording after everyone gets loaded up!


I'm going to hide!


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## EOS (Mar 22, 2010)

severine said:


> *Photography on the Net *is a forum like this for Canon enthusiasts. I got my 10D body used on there for about $200. It's an older prosumer line... but I would recommend the 20D over it (used to have that and it was worth the extra money; the 10D has some issues with non-proprietary lenses and my zoom is a Sigma).



Thank you for that site, severine!  There is tons of information over there! 
________
Yamaha FZ1


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## severine (Mar 22, 2010)

EOS said:


> Thank you for that site, severine!  There is tons of information over there!



No problem! It can be a little much, but there are a lot of people who know what they're doing there. Great resource!


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## gmcunni (Apr 12, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> in talking with my daughter last night i found she was bummed i was returning the camera.  i told her i'd give it another few days of playing with the MJPEG settings to see if i could be happy with it.  .MOV files aren't the worst thing in the world to deal with.



ended up keeping it. still getting used to it.. don't like holding it like a camera (doesn't feel as steady) but got decent video out of it in the non-HD mode.


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