# More news on apparent decline in snowboarding / increase in skiing



## Nick (Feb 18, 2013)

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2020303560_skisalesxml.html



> Sales of snowboards and snowboard equipment have slipped 21 percent over the last four years, while sales of skis have climbed 3 percent in the same period, according to SnowSports Industries America, a trade group that tracks the $3.5 billion snow sports and apparel industry.
> 
> Baby boomers aren’t the only ones bailing. Last season, alpine skiing replaced snowboarding as the most popular snow sport among kids ages 6 to 17, according to the trade group. That’s the first time in nearly a decade and a troubling sign for snowboard makers battling for a key demographic.



I know we have talked about this before but I anecdotally am seeing the same thing. Like we have said before the fat twin-tip skis that are competent in the park have dug pretty hard into snowboard sales, I would imagine. 



> From 1990 to 2004, the number of Americans snowboarders jumped about 340 percent, from 1.5 million to 6.6 million, according to the National Sporting Goods Association. In the same period, the number of skiers dropped 48 percent, from 11.4 million to 5.9 million, the trade group said.
> 
> Since 2004, however, snowboard participation has dropped 22 percent while skiing has climbed 16 percent, the group said.


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 18, 2013)

It's twin tips, the aging demographic, and the economy I think.


----------



## Nick (Feb 18, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> It's twin tips, the aging demographic, and the economy I think.



The economy would also impact skiers , right? I mean, yes the entire industry took a dip during the past few years but snowboarding was hit disproportional to skiers. The article claims snowboarding down 22% but skiing is up 16%. Granted, that's based on gear sales / etc.... but I think the other parts are right on. It would be fun to be able to ski again a day in the 90's just to visualize the difference again. 

Let me finish off that time travel machine :lol:


----------



## Cheese (Feb 18, 2013)

Nick said:


> It would be fun to be able to ski again a day in the 90's just to visualize the difference again.



Keep your skis firmly planted on the snow (no jumping), ski only on trails (no glades, trees or boundary line skiing) and avoid terrain parks and you'll have pretty good idea of what skiing was like back then.  Boring!


----------



## Mpdsnowman (Feb 18, 2013)

I should post that article on a few snowboard sites im on lol...They would probably string me up alive lol..

But this does not shock me. First off ever since the rocker/camber thing of the snowboard came out, ski mfgs adapted quickly. I must admit it is impressive to see what a skier can now do compared to snowboarders when it comes to parks etc...

To ski has always been the original and I think most resorts, parents etc firmly believe one should start out skiing. I see more ski lessons nowadays then snowboard lessons.

As a business man I did expect the snowboard fad to settle down and I think it has..It wont ever go away in fact who knows ...one day skiers and riders will have to get on the lifts with who knows what lol...

Because I can do both I have no allegiance to either side...and yes there are two sides lol... But right now I have to say ski mfg's are moving forward more compared to snowboard mfgs..

But I do have to dissagree that its because parents and older people are now snowboarding...Im more inclined to think its a natural fad business curve in place here....


----------



## Nick (Feb 18, 2013)

Mpdsnowman said:


> I should post that article on a few snowboard sites im on lol...They would probably string me up alive lol..
> 
> But this does not shock me. First off ever since the rocker/camber thing of the snowboard came out, ski mfgs adapted quickly. I must admit it is impressive to see what a skier can now do compared to snowboarders when it comes to parks etc...
> 
> ...



I do think a lot of the core snowboarding demographic is people my age - upper 20's / lower 30's - who grew up in the 90's when snowboarding was in it's heyday. Yes there are older and younger ones but most of the kids I see today on the slopes - 12 - 18 years old - are all on skis again, or predominantly.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 18, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> It's twin tips, the aging demographic, and the economy I think.



Take a look at snowboard prices these days. 

When I started ten years ago, I could get a full setup for about half what a comparable ski setup would cost. THose differences are not that vast these days, while ski prices have stayed pretty much constant in relative terms.


----------



## dmc (Feb 18, 2013)

I blame Burton...  Too much...  Too expensive...

I've been buying my snowboards from smaller companies...  Made in the USA...


----------



## Cheese (Feb 18, 2013)

I've always shared the trails with boarders but where I ski seems to be really challenging for them.  Last year at Mammoth there was a big dump and the groomers had to come out and make passes primarily for the boarders.  They were stuck in the deep snow on everything but steeper slopes and walking out of the powder seemed to be frustrating them greatly as skiers passed them by and tracked it all out.

This year skiing off piste in Europe I also witnessed a very competent boarder struggling.  Cat tracks, ridge lines and traverses in the bowls were a challenge and every time we came to the run out at the bottom we'd pole out and he'd post hole to his thighs trying to walk out. 

So perhaps with the increased popularity of off piste and back country skiing boarders are realizing they're rather limited to the type of runs they can make or the punishment they will encounter to get to or get out of these remote areas.


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 18, 2013)

Cheese said:


> So perhaps with the increased popularity of off piste and back country skiing boarders are realizing they're rather limited to the type of runs they can make or the punishment they will encounter to get to or get out of these remote areas.



That's part of it.  There are lots of classic runs/traverses that are not recommended for boarders (Vallée Blanche, Haute route), but mostly, look no further than newschool skiing in the late 90s.   Despite the obvious drawbacks of snowboarding (lack of flat land performance - no poles - no skating, having to constantly step in and step out), snowboarders were cool - they had the parks, the attitude and every kid wanted to snowboard.  Most kids on skis also secretly wanted to snowboard. 

The new school blended the snowboard attitude with new skis and suddenly skiing was cool again.   The biggest advantage of snowboarding over skiing was always the coolness/rebel factor. Now that this is mostly gone, I would expect the decline to continue.


----------



## St. Bear (Feb 18, 2013)

Splitting my time skiing between the Poconos and New England, its funny how different the number of snowboarders there are. Down here its at least 40%, if not half.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2013)

Nick said:


> Like we have said before the fat twin-tip skis that are competent in the park have dug pretty hard into snowboard sales, I would imagine.



It's huge, and youth drives the trend.  Snowboarding was once cool in the 90s and early 00s, and skiing was uncool.  Now the trend has almost flipped.  The young kids now view skiing as cooler because the variety of tricks and jumps you can do on skis is far greater than what you can do on a snowboard due to having 2 free legs as well as the axis of the spine being less restricted. The irony of this, of course, is that the tricks/jumps is what made snowboarding "cooler" than skiing in the first place.   

As usual, the networks and media that cover these movements and trends are well-behind the times.  Just as they were slow in noticing the booming popularity and explosion of snowboarding, TV/media are now slow in noticing snowboarding's slipping popularity.  They still give top billing to Shaun White and snowboard halfpipe, etc.... but look at the crowds and the kids on the hill, they are the ones who will drive trend, and they're clearly more excited about skis in the park/pipe now than they are about snowboards.



Cheese said:


> So perhaps with the increased popularity of off piste and back country skiing boarders are realizing they're rather limited to the type of runs they can make or the punishment they will encounter to get to or get out of these remote areas.



There is no doubt a snowboard is not even close to being as useful of a mountain tool as a pair of skis, which is why you dont see rescue teams on snowboards.  But I'm not sure the above is responsible for snowboarding's decline given backcountry is still a very small numerical percentage of folks.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 18, 2013)

Skiing is becoming prohibitively expensive between lift tickets, travel expenses, gear costs.

The casual skier or rider will go less often, and this leaves the mountains for more dedicated enthusiasts.

My impression based on the average skill level of snowboarders I see vs skiers is that there are more skiers who see their sport as a way of life, and more snowboarders who just like to go once in a while.

I would expect snowboarding to see continued decline and skiing to start to decline as well based on these trends.


----------



## dmc (Feb 18, 2013)

Splitboard FTW!!!!

Actually - I know that i slow my friends that Tele down in the BC....

That's why i want to be able to AT ski with my skier friends and splitboard with my snowboard friends...


----------



## catskillman (Feb 18, 2013)

Not sure if it is true, but it seems that snowboards hold up longer than ski's.  I have friends who have not had to replace their board in 4 years, I've had 2 pairs of skis in the same period.  If that is true across the board sales would be impacted.

Kids want to the opposite of what Mom & Dad do.  Young parents these days are snowboarders, hence the uptick in skiers.   Also, it is really tough on a 3/4 year old to learn to board.  They have difficulty with the bindings, and often their feet are to small to apply the right amount of pressure to turn the board, if you can even find equipment small enough.  (As told to me by an instructer friend)

And older folks have difficulty wilh pedaling on the flats, the on/off the butt to buckle in......  Age matters, although age does take its toll on skiers too.


----------



## Mpdsnowman (Feb 18, 2013)

First off let me say either way is all fun. The styles are different. Now I am older and I didnt start to snowboard because I thought it was cool..I never viewed tubing or sledding or tobogganing or skiing as cool...but fun...

However i did like the fact that I could easily walk around in my boots. I did like the fact I could learn it quickly and I like that it does not take a toll on knees and ankles like skis do....

Believe me I was the oddball on the slopes. Kids kids kids then me...good thing im 5'4 and dressed in snowboard clothes lol...Now there are plenty of peeps in my age and within 15 years on either side of me rippin turns...I think they see the benefits I see and its a different version of fun. 

If that takes the coolness out and those of that nature im all good with that.

Lol I figured once Shaun White retires all that crap will go away lol....

But this decline we see I think is nothing more than business curve. Snowboarding accelerated quickly, logic says it declines the same...


----------



## Nick (Feb 18, 2013)

Boots are nice. I also have talked with vdk03 here who swears on a powder day you just can't beat the feeling of being on a board. I don't know that because I've only done powder on skis (and love it!) but I can see more of an appeal on a wide open piste with powder on a board.


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 18, 2013)

Nick said:


> Boots are nice. I also have talked with vdk03 here who swears on a powder day you just can't beat the feeling of being on a board. I don't know that because I've only done powder on skis (and love it!) but I can see more of an appeal on a wide open piste with powder on a board.




I'm no snowboarder (I've tried a couple of days a long time ago when it was cool...) but I agree that the only time it appeals to me is in powder.  It looks so effortless and smooth.   Especially when compared to 20 years ago when we were skiing long and thin planks.  Fat rockered skis have bridged part of the gap.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Feb 18, 2013)

Ski boots should be very comfy as well. I would take my ski boots over any of the snowboard boots I have tried on personelly which is quite a few.

I believe the downfall is because of twin tip skis. Before a person learned to ski as a little kid and then had to switch to the "cool" sport of snowboarding as a early teenager. Now they can learn to ski as a little kid and then switch to "cool" twin tips and not have to learn what they are doing again.

Learning to ski is much easier for the little ones than snowboarding. I know many snowboard reps and die hard boarders who had there kids learn to ski first as it is easier. Then they can switch later if they want.
Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2013)

Not saying that there hasn't been a decline in snowboarding vs skiing (it sort of seems like there has been).  But just want to point out that equipment sales might not exactly correlate to participation.  Somebody else already mentioned that snowboard gear might last longer...which would contribute to slower sales of new gear.  Not sure if that's true or not but it could be.  But even more so, there has been a lot of new tech released in skiing lately.  That drives existing skiers to buy new gear, while existing snowboarders might be happy with what they have.  

For example: Personally, I board ~75% and ski ~25%, yet I have bought 3 new pairs of skis in the past 3 years but only one new snowboard.  So if I was a statistical n=1, sales would make it look like skiing is 3 times more popular than boarding, while actual participation would make boarding look 3 times more popular that skiing.


----------



## SnowRock (Feb 18, 2013)

I definitely agree that the changes in ski tech are playing a big role in driving more people towards skis again, but I also think you are seeing a sport go through its life cycle. You are going to have plateaus and periods of decline. Remember how young the sport really is from a consumer standpoint.. I think the sport will contract some and you will end up with a more sustainable, steady participation number. I just hope for the health of the industry overall that we don't see contraction of both skier and snowboard numbers.

I learned on skis at a real young age but didn't love it...  started boarding in the early 90s. The new skis look like so much more fun. If it wasn't for my bum knee this season, I think I'd spend a day trying it out again. Will probably give it a shot next year.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 18, 2013)

Twin tips have been around since the 90's. You guys really think twin tips caused this? 

I had never ridden a snowboard through the 90's and had a pair of Salomon 1080's. This was almost 15 years ago....


----------



## billski (Feb 18, 2013)

*Ramblings*

A few rambling thoughts

mdp - When you talk about a "fad", I think about a new product, hits with an initial bang, plateaus for a bit then tapers down to a small passionate crowd.(Beanie babys.)   Now it becomes a niche.   I'm hearing now that telemarking is the next boom.  I'd wager it goes through the same cycle.  The difference with tele is that it was around long before the current increase in interest.  I suspect people embracing the idea of "getting into the woods", and the resort's support of slack-country skiing becomes a natural extension.

The cool thing from a resorts point of view, fad or no fad, there is pretty much zero infrastructure change necessary.  Equipment inventories for resorts and ski shops simply split.

From the demographic report I saw a couple years ago, boarder participation has leveled off, but is not decreasing.  
If you look at an age vs. participation chart, you'll find it increases steeply from age zero until the mid 20s.  When people hit their 30's, there is a precipitous drop as so many people begin families.  This continues to age 50 and then participation goes back up, but never to the level of the 20 YO's.  During the "procreation stage" women's participation drops off dramatically, while men's participation drops to perhaps a half of what is was before.

Snowboarders should follow the same curve as a general assumption.  So it's about time, 10-15 years out now that many of the early adopters may be dropping out for family reasons.   While I somewhat agree with the "fad" hypothesis, there is something to be said for lifestyle.

Economics clearly has had an impact.  Not only is skiing/boarding expensive, but those under 25 by and large are having an extremely difficult time finding any job, let alone one that pays reasonably.   Well, if mom and dad are willing to pay for your time on the slopes, wouldn't you go along.

What I'm painting is a scenario of many moving parts.

I read an interesting article in the Globe today where resort developers are becoming more and more persuaded that nost people don't come to just ski and ride.  Many, many people look at skiing as a destination vacation.  They are there to do other things too, like eat out a lot, go to shows, go for sleigh rides.  I could argue particular demographics , geographic niches or small operators, but I do sense the whole orientation of the sport is changing.

The first time I visited Sugarbush, perhaps 20 years ago, my impression was "this is a skier's mountain." (There were no boarders at the time).  It had the vibe that everyone was there to ski.  It doesn't feel that way any longer.

If one postulates that a large percentage

  Over the past few years, woods skiing has become acceptable to resorts and attractive to customers.


----------



## octopus (Feb 18, 2013)

Nick said:


> Boots are nice. I also have talked with vdk03 here who swears on a powder day you just can't beat the feeling of being on a board. I don't know that because I've only done powder on skis (and love it!) but I can see more of an appeal on a wide open piste with powder on a board.


 
i'll bring you a board to try, maybe sugarbush?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2013)

billski said:


> Economics clearly has had an impact.  Not only is skiing/boarding expensive, but *those under 25 by and large are having an extremely difficult time finding any job, let alone one that pays reasonably*.



This is an excellent point, the <25 unemployment rate is sickeningly high (though that should be hurting both sports, not just snowboarding).


----------



## goldsbar (Feb 18, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Keep your skis firmly planted on the snow (no jumping), ski only on trails (no glades, trees or boundary line skiing) and avoid terrain parks and you'll have pretty good idea of what skiing was like back then.  Boring!



Remember it all to well.  Some places didn't even allow bumps (ski patrol putting polls in, hah!).  No thanks.


----------



## goldsbar (Feb 18, 2013)

It does feel like there are significantly less riders than skiers over the last few years, but it's not like I'm out there counting.  As much as it just never felt right to me (did on season on a board), skiing owes a huge debt to snowboarding.  Ski design innovation was almost nil.  Now there's to much!  We'd still be skiing on 200cm skinny skis with barely any sidecut.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 18, 2013)

I've noticed a huge drop of snowboarders just this season.  I'll ski a few terrain park laps everywhere I go, and I've noticed that the makeup of the park is 50/50 between skiers and riders.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2013)

ss20 said:


> I've noticed a huge drop of snowboarders just this season.  I'll ski a few terrain park laps everywhere I go, and *I've noticed that the makeup of the park is 50/50 between skiers and riders*.



I dont think that represents a decrease in snowboarders, so much as the realization that skis are actually cooler/better than snowboards for serious park junkies.  That's the "irony" I referenced earlier.  

And I'd go a bit farther, and say that a tipping point has been breached where it's more like >50% skiers in the park.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Keep your skis firmly planted on the snow (no jumping), ski only on trails (no glades, trees or boundary line skiing) and avoid terrain parks and you'll have pretty good idea of what skiing was like back then.  Boring!



I skied in the 90's (early and late) and skied trees and glades every chance I got. There were bump runs at every ski area I went to. Terrain parks on the other hand were few and far between. A couple places had jumps and a very few had half pipes.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> It does feel like there are significantly less riders than skiers over the last few years, but it's not like I'm out there counting. As much as it just never felt right to me (did on season on a board), skiing owes a huge debt to snowboarding. Ski design innovation was almost nil. Now there's to much! We'd still be skiing on 200cm skinny skis with barely any sidecut.



For sure!  Many innovations to skis came from snowboarding.  Shaped skis, rocker, "magne-traction" edges, all started out on snowboards.  

I think a big part of why a lot of younger people are skiing is that it's easier to learn. (tougher to master, of course)  Kids are pansies these days.  

I also think that a lot of skiers have a quiver of skis.  Many have rock skis, race skis, powder skis, etc.  Most snowboarders have one board.  Many skiers also seem to have the attitude that their gear will make them better.  Skiers definitely argue the finer points of ski design much more than snowboarders.  I think this leads to more frequent equipment replacement with skiers.

I also agree that at some mountains, and especially in the backcountry, skiing has many advantages like poles, the ability to skate, etc.  But besides flat land performance, there are other instances where I think I would have felt much more comfortable on skiis.  At Breck last year, we hit a couple of the bowls when the snow was basically choppy, wind-blown styrofoam.  Having only one edge to dig in was nerve-racking.  If I slid out, there would be no stopping until the bottom.  My friends on skis seemed much more comfortable.  It was the first time I had ever even considered learning to ski.  Now it's on my to-do list.  I might give it a whirl when we're out in Tahoe next week.

That said, I LOVE snowboarding!  Surfing the earth.  I think the fact that it's such an unnatural motion makes it very satisfying to do well.  Riding in powder is especially awesome and while snowboarding in the woods is definitely more difficult than skiing, that's part of the thrill.  Sometimes when I say how hard a section was, my friends suggest that I try skis and it wouldn't be so hard.  They don't seem to get that that's not the point.  I'm not looking to make it easier.  The challenge is part of the fun.  I take pride in riding stuff that my friends on skis find difficult.


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> I skied in the 90's (early and late) and skied trees and glades every chance I got.



Well, I'll use Attitash as an example for those that don't remember.

Attitash had a trail called Highway that cut through Grandstand, Moat, Liftline and Whitehorse.  That cut basically created upper and lower versions of these trails but more importantly created a lip for some great air opportunities with clear visibility of the landing below.  That didn't matter as "no jumping" signs were posted and ski patrol would position themselves for easy ticket clipping of offenders.  If you wanted to jump on the mountain, you paid to join the Freestyle program and then were only allowed to jump on the 3 man made kickers.  The kickers were mainly for inverted aerials.  There were no jumps created for the old school 80s tricks and worse, jumping on marked trails was grounds for losing lift privileges.

Tree skiing was a little cut through the woods that the kids would create and follow.  It wasn't a powder run but more of a tracked out tight washboard adventure for the little ones.  Once the ski patrol found it, bamboo poles were placed in an X blocking it and again, grounds for losing lift privileges.

Glades?  I don't have a trail map from the 90s, but I remember nothing of the sort.  More likely there were warnings that you were in the White Mountain National Forest and you were to respect that by remaining on the marked trails.

Today Attitash has an entire trail devoted to public jumping.  They have a park staff that paints the lips, measures the angles of each jump and frequently supervises the landing zones for safety.  Rather than bulldoze the jumps the groomers carefully manicure the takeoff and landing zones.  They've cut a groove in the earth that fills with snow to create a half pipe.  They make additional snow in the half pipe and spent considerable money on a Pipe Dragon grooming attachment specifically to cut the edges of the pipe.  They've got marked glades on their trail map and unless they're roped, you're welcome to ski through the trees with no danger of losing lift privileges.

That's just one ski area but it should clearly show a change in what's allowable fun.  I welcome this change and yes, credit the snow boarders for breaking so many of the 90s rules that areas had no other option but to compromise.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm pretty impressed that this thread has gone 4 pages and all the posts are respectful and intelligent.  Maybe we all CAN get along!!


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I'm pretty impressed that this thread has gone 4 pages and all the posts are respectful and intelligent.  Maybe we all CAN get along!!



Well I let your "Rocker" comment go even though it was Shane McConkey skiing powder on water skis in Alaska that spawned reverse camber.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 19, 2013)

From my own personal observation and perspective. Kids these days, bot male and female, generally speaking like terrain parks. While a snowboard may be a bit easier/quicker to pick up the general technique of turning and getting down the hill on than a pair of skis. In the park setting, having both feet able to move independently of each other for balance purposes has to be a plus for someone learning and using a park.

Purely speaking from the perspective of seeing kids (I'll call kids say age 15/16 and under) who are the future of our downhill snowsliding sport, what I see first hand over in the parks at Carinthia at Mount Snow these days is a mix of say 2/3rds -3/4ths skiers to 1/3rd - 1/4ths boarders.  Just yesterday that had a age 12 and under comp at Mount Snow called the Grommet Jam.  They had 57 participants - 40+ were on skis.  

Now if you look at the "20 something" generation in the same location, the ratio is flipped most days (although not as wide a gap as it used to be a few years ago).  I feel that as the terrain park era has evolved over the last decade or so, what used to be almost an exclusively snowboard environment has now become one where for the average park user, it's a bit easier (and hence more "fun" for them) on 2 skis vs. on a board.

Also as an observation, I rarely see any boarder on a true carving board in hard boots anymore.  Used to see those on a much more frequent basis, and as someone who really enjoys and appreciate some serious carved "trenches" that some folks can lay down, I miss seeing those in greater numbers on the hill these days


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 19, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Also as an observation, I rarely see any boarder on a true carving board in hard boots anymore.  Used to see those on a much more frequent basis, and as someone who really enjoys and appreciate some serious carved "trenches" that some folks can lay down, I miss seeing those in greater numbers on the hill these days



I have not seen a true carving board in the past 5 years.   I also see less and less true carving skis for that matter.


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Also as an observation, I rarely see any boarder on a true carving board in hard boots anymore.  Used to see those on a much more frequent basis, and as someone who really enjoys and appreciate some serious carved "trenches" that some folks can lay down, I miss seeing those in greater numbers on the hill these days



Although I do board on occasion I haven't yet clicked into an alpine board.  It has always been a mystery to me where these guys/girls go to learn how to carve.  Every single carver I've ever watched was absolutely fantastic, digging trenches and dragging body parts on every turn.  Impressive to watch, but where are the beginner/intermediate carvers?


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 19, 2013)

True carving snowboards are next to impossible to find these days. I rock a Salomon Burner which is regularly cambered, but these days most companies dont even make them. 

Rocker is a good tool in the right situation, but in others its not. I think that might play a role in sales, but not the full extent.


----------



## billski (Feb 19, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I have not seen a true carving board in the past 5 years.   I also see less and less true carving skis for that matter.



Hmm.  So technical boarding isn't important?  It's just brute strength?   The very few people who carve when boarding are a beauty to behold.  Why no carving boards?  Too hard?   I see way more boarders side-slipping it down the steeps than skiers. What's that all about?


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

billski said:


> Hmm.  So technical boarding isn't important?  It's just brute strength?   The very few people who carve when boarding are a beauty to behold.  Why no carving boards?  Too hard?   I see way more boarders side-slipping it down the steeps than skiers. What's that all about?



Carving is just not my idea of fun...  I've done it... I have the gear..  It's not hard... it's just different..

I don't want to be locked into a hard edge..   And I don't like hard boots and plates unless I'm climbing..
I know all you skiers think it's so cool to see someone doing what you do - but if everyone carved - it would suck..  
It would be like all skiers making big turns all over the mountain..

With my setup I can carve when I want to and switch and not have to set an edge all the time...

I see skiers side slipping steeps too...  And with 2 edges instead of one...


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> I know all you skiers think it's so cool to see someone doing what you do - but if everyone carved - it would suck..



I would argue that the groom on any given trail would last far longer.  It's the skidding by skiers and boarders alike which wipes the snow from the trails exposing the icy base layer beneath.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Well I let your "Rocker" comment go even though it was Shane McConkey skiing powder on water skis in Alaska that spawned reverse camber.




Didn't know that.  I learned something today! :-D  But it was definitely the snowboarding industry that brought it to the mainstream. 

The funny thing is that a lot of pros ride regular camber boards more often than not.  Rocker is nice for float in deep pow or for pressing rails with ease, but it sucks for stability and response when riding fast or trying to land off a 75 foot stepdown.  A lot of the guys I know that rode rocker boards a couple years ago switched back to camber recently.  I think rocker is nice for beginners because it's more forgiving but once you get to a certain level, camber is really the only way to go in everyday conditions.  Just my opinion, of course.

I agree with the Dr. about terrain parks.  I like to compare it to skateboarding vs. rollerblading in skate parks.  I did both as a kid.  I started skateboarding and was never really any good at it.  The learning curve is very steep, but with roller blading I picked it up very quick and progressed steadily so it held my attention longer.


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> I would argue that the groom on any given trail would last far longer.  It's the skidding by skiers and boarders alike which wipes the snow from the trails exposing the icy base layer beneath.



I've heard people complain about the trenches that carvers create...haha...

But seriously... If EVERYONE made those big carve turns..  I wouldn't want to share the trail with them..

I never have a problem on the trail edges ripping up all the snow that ends up there with small turns....


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 19, 2013)

Actually most pros are using regularly cambered boards with the rocker models graphics for marketing. Trice, etc all do this. 

Its not bad in powder, soft chop, soft bc stuff, but resort, park, big mountain, Ill take camber every time.


----------



## SnowRock (Feb 19, 2013)

Interestingly enough there is a small contingent of hard booters I see out at Camelback fairly often. Male and female... i think mostly on Kesslers. I haven't been to Windham very regularly as of late but feel like there was a handful there as well. Don't see many at Hunter, or up in VT or out west when i go there. 

I have never ridden on an alpine set-up like that... I ride a regular camber salomon man's board and can carve well enough (for me at least) on that, though seeing the hard booters laid out looks like it would be fun to try for a run or two.


----------



## fbrissette (Feb 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> I know all you skiers think it's so cool to see someone doing what you do -



All us skiers ???   I don't like carving.   Carving is something i do for a short time when all the fun stuff (glades, steeps, backcountry) is closed.


----------



## Glenn (Feb 19, 2013)

I think it's park skiing that's helping. A few years ago, I started seeing families snowboarding together. I figured once that happened, it lost a bit of its edge. Once you see mom an dad sporting center mounts, short poles, big jackets and saggy pants, the shark will have been jumped. :lol:


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I also see less and less true carving skis for that matter.



Rather than derail this thread ...

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...-ride-on-a-race-ski-latey?p=760501#post760501


----------



## Mpdsnowman (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I'm pretty impressed that this thread has gone 4 pages and all the posts are respectful and intelligent.  Maybe we all CAN get along!!



Lol I was actually thinking the same thing. But honestly ive only been on here since march of last year and it does seem pretty neutral all the way around lol...which is nice...

I think it is fair to say snowboarding did give the Winter Enthusiast industry a needed shot in the arm. I remember when resorts opened snowboarding up and yes it was an issue to many. Cant blame them skiing was the original...But it was conceived as expensive and for those of a more "astute" nature if you will lol and snowboarding did bring in a new group and sort of leveled out the playing field.

You guys are right when you speak of the punk kids now getting older and more responsible. And of course the majority back in 1984 were mostly kids....

But lol...







Snowboarding has done a lot for the industry lol


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 19, 2013)

This whole debate reminds me of the NYT article this weekend about a bunch of hipsters from Brooklyn moving to the burbs. 

Next thing you know them and the snowboarders will vote republican.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I also think that a lot of skiers have a quiver of skis.  Many have rock skis, race skis, powder skis, etc.  Most snowboarders have one board.



Maybe you're right, but in my limited sample size, the snowboarders I ski with all have at least 2 boards.  Some have 3.



C-Rex said:


> Riding in powder is especially awesome and while *snowboarding in the woods is definitely more difficult than skiing*, that's part of the thrill.  Sometimes when I say how hard a section was, my friends suggest that I try skis and it wouldn't be so hard.



Have to disagree with this too.  While skis are a much more practical and efficient all-mountain tool than snowboards, if there was one place where I think snowboarding has an advantage over skiing, I would say it would be in trees.


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> While skis are a much more practical and efficient all-mountain tool than snowboards, if there was one place where I think snowboarding has an advantage over skiing, I would say it would be in trees.



Is this because of their ability to side slip narrower sections?  If not, I'd think the blind spot and the difficulty in making quick turns would make the opposite true.


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Is this because of their ability to side slip narrower sections?  If not, I'd think the blind spot and the difficulty in making quick turns would make the opposite true.



It has to do with having less to deal with - imho...  All I have is a one deck..  No extra ski and poles... 

I point that deck where I want to go and it goes there..   If i need to switch for some reason I can do that as an extra tool in the box..  If I fall i don't lose my board which is nice...

Blind spot has nothing to do with it... I face down the falline...  I can look left or right..  

I can tear up trees all day long...  Tight and steep...  VT or Wyoming..

Hell - we even rode trees in Kashmir that if we stopped of fell we'd risk being attacked by monkeys...  and I HATE monkeys...


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Is this because of their ability to side slip narrower sections? If not, I'd think the blind spot and the difficulty in making quick turns would make the opposite true.



I've never skied so I really can't say for sure, but I figure with how much more movement is necessary to turn, and the fact that we can't really slow down without turning the board sideways a good deal, it's actually more difficult to snowboard.  At least skiers can snowplow if they need to.  Not to mention we have a wider surface area to work with.  If the line is narrow or there are obstacles, having two narrower skis can be an advantage.  Skiers also have the advantage of a single pivot point under your feet on the ski.  This gives way more flexibility in bumps.  Sorry but I just can't see snowboarding being easier in the woods than skiing.

/threadjack

I wonder if the decline in snowboarding and the rise in skiing is the same nationwide or if places more suited to snowboarding are maintaining better numbers.


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

Mpdsnowman said:


> I remember when resorts opened snowboarding up and yes it was an issue to many. Cant blame them skiing was the original...



Well... original skiing was a LOT different from what we know today..

Remember that skiing was borne from necessity - delivering mail - attacking the next town over...
And snowboarding was borne only for fun.  

I was there when snowboarding opened up to ski areas..  In the mid/late 80's we we're there at Hunter and other areas working to make sure everyone had equal access.  
When Hunter closed Anna Purna to boarders we marched into Izzy's office and complained...  
When the tried to open a snowboard only "park" on Drop Off( I think) we marched into Izzys office and told him to open it to everyone..
When people on the chairs ripped into us - we calmly talked to them and quelled the miss-information..  and made some friends..

We've been at it for a while and I still jump in on the anti-snowboard BS I see to this day as many here know...


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Maybe you're right, but in my limited sample size, the snowboarders I ski with all have at least 2 boards. Some have 3.




Do they have multiple board they use throughout the season for different conditions or types of riding, or do they just have 2 or 3 boards because they didn't sell the old one when they bought a new one?

I have 5 boards but 3 of them are unofficially retired.  I've never sold a board.  I still have all of them since I first started.  One day they will make an awesome display in my man cave.  The two I use are similar, but I keep the newer one for good conditions and the older one for days with likely rock encounters.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> Well... original skiing was a LOT different from what we know today..
> 
> Remember that skiing was borne from necessity - delivering mail - attacking the next town over...
> And snowboarding was borne only for fun.
> ...




You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Do they have multiple board they use throughout the season for different conditions or types of riding, or do they just have 2 or 3 boards because they didn't sell the old one when they bought a new one?



I have 3 working decks..
A smaller one for East Coast
A larger for Big mountains..
A Split deck for BC

i have a couple others that are totally trashed and not rideable...


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 19, 2013)

I have two techinically, but really its one. 

Two Salmonon burners, one custom split, and one regular 163 for inbounds. 

I dont know of to many snowboarders that have more than one board, outside of a split. In fact I cant think of any. 

Having an old board lying around that you used to ride doesnt really count IMO.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> I have 3 working decks..
> A smaller one for East Coast
> A larger for Big mountains..
> A Split deck for BC
> ...



Well, I'd say that a lot of the snowboarders on these forums are just a bit more dedicated than your average rider.  So you guys don't count. :razz: I really want a split, but first I need to get my friends to buy into doing some hiking/skinning for turns.  I don't think it'd be as fun, or safe, if I went by myself.


----------



## jaywbigred (Feb 19, 2013)

drjeff said:


> From my own personal observation and perspective. Kids these days, bot male and female, generally speaking like terrain parks. While a snowboard may be a bit easier/quicker to pick up the general technique of turning and getting down the hill on than a pair of skis. In the park setting, having both feet able to move independently of each other for balance purposes has to be a plus for someone learning and using a park.
> 
> Purely speaking from the perspective of seeing kids (I'll call kids say age 15/16 and under) who are the future of our downhill snowsliding sport, what I see first hand over in the parks at Carinthia at Mount Snow these days is a mix of say 2/3rds -3/4ths skiers to 1/3rd - 1/4ths boarders.  Just yesterday that had a age 12 and under comp at Mount Snow called the Grommet Jam.  They had 57 participants - 40+ were on skis.
> 
> ...



I think you can still ride an edge and carve on "regular" snowboards with normal snowboard boots. This weekend, at Campgaw Mountain, of all places (a county-owned NJ hill with ~250 vertical feet), there was a kids snowboard slalom race going on, and they were laying down absolute rails. I saw maybe two or three sets of carving boards with hard boots, but most were on more normal gear and were riding awesome arcs, even at age groups 7-8. So fun to watch.

As a 33 year old skier who grew to love skiing even during its uncool period, I think the only explanation that makes sense is the twin-tip, park ski evolution, which itself is a product of snowboarding! But I concur DrJeff's earlier comments re: Carinthia and so forth. 

I think there is much more crossover and unity between the formerly very distinct skiing and snowboarding cultures. Much more blending. Which I like so much, it makes the mountain experience so much better, more brotherly (sisterly). 

That being said, my 13 year old cousin just switched to snowboarding and did make some "skier" jokes when he and I were riding together at Shawnee (PA) this weekend. It saddened me; I thought his generation might have missed that.


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Well, I'd say that a lot of the snowboarders on these forums are just a bit more dedicated than your average rider.  So you guys don't count. :razz: I really want a split, but first I need to get my friends to buy into doing some hiking/skinning for turns.  I don't think it'd be as fun, or safe, if I went by myself.



http://www.splitboard.com/

I've splitboarded all over the place..  Get one and go to the golf course and learn how to use it..  Breaking it down... Putting skins on..  using the heel televators...  Biggest problem with people that split is they don't practice transition..


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

I've been all over that site, but thanks for the advice.  I actually have a golf course near my house that has some good hills and would be perfect.  As long as I can get out there without getting arrested for trespassing.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> *Is this because of their ability to side slip narrower sections?*



That's a tight-trees snowboard plus for sure.  For instance, last year at Jay Peak, I was with some friends (I'm the only skier) and they slipped into a steep narrow section sideways to enter some beautiful trees that were pretty virgin due to entrance difficulty.  I couldnt enter that way, because the trees were way narrower than my 179s.   I was looking at it with an....."ummmmm" sort of look, lol. 

 As for the rest, DMC answered it pretty well.  Only thing I'd add (and this is for very tight trees/unmarked stuff) is the snowboarder presents a slightly smaller downhill profile.


----------



## Cheese (Feb 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> It has to do with having less to deal with - imho...  All I have is a one deck..  No extra ski and poles...
> 
> I point that deck where I want to go and it goes there..   If i need to switch for some reason I can do that as an extra tool in the box..  If I fall i don't lose my board which is nice...
> 
> ...



I've never seen you ride so I won't deny you can handle your board.

I've got twin tips so could technically "switch" but more often than not  the pace in the trees would not allow for such a move unless I've  slowed or come to a stop.

Ejecting from my skis and poles may be  inconvenient to recover but at that point I want to be able to assume a  small fetal position in order to glance objects rather than stopping  suddenly because my board(s) got hung up on them.

When I think of tight New England trees I think of a black or double black mogul run where chances are the people skiing it or riding it correctly are basically zip line bumpers.  Some days there's fresh, some days there's corn and most days it's tracked out hard pack bumps, trees and troughs.  Like you, these zip line bumpers are going to be shoulders across the hill and facing down the fall line.  There's no choice since slower upper body movements will only prevent quick knee and foot reactions and cause problems.

We've all seen plenty of skiers zip line moguls in competitions.  Ski poles aren't a nuisance, they're an advantage for setting rhythm and keeping correct body position.  However, I personally have never seen a boarder zip line moguls at any kind of speed.  I've never seen a boarder score highly in a bump competition.  Most of the boarders I witness on steep mogul terrain are either traversing multiple moguls or riding their heel edge down through the troughs.  This isn't what I consider good technique in the trees but perhaps I'm just a biased skier.  If mogul runs don't translate to tree runs for you then I think you've found far more wide open trees that haven't been bumped up from skier and rider traffic and don't have random debris which forces quick turning.  It's this type of tree skiing and it's correlation to mogul skiing that I felt was not boarder friendly.  Again, I haven't seen you ride so am basing this opinion solely on those boarders I've witnessed in the trees and bumps.


----------



## jaywbigred (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> When I think of tight New England trees I think of a black or double black mogul run where chances are the people skiing it or riding it correctly are basically zip line bumpers.  Some days there's fresh, some days there's corn and most days it's tracked out hard pack bumps, trees and troughs.  Like you, these zip line bumpers are going to be shoulders across the hill and facing down the fall line.  There's no choice since slower upper body movements will only prevent quick knee and foot reactions and cause problems.
> 
> We've all seen plenty of skiers zip line moguls in competitions.  Ski poles aren't a nuisance, they're an advantage for setting rhythm and keeping correct body position.  However, I personally have never seen a boarder zip line moguls at any kind of speed.  I've never seen a boarder score highly in a bump competition.  Most of the boarders I witness on steep mogul terrain are either traversing multiple moguls or riding their heel edge down through the troughs.  This isn't what I consider good technique in the trees but perhaps I'm just a biased skier.  If mogul runs don't translate to tree runs for you then I think you've found far more wide open trees that haven't been bumped up from skier and rider traffic and don't have random debris which forces quick turning.  It's this type of tree skiing and it's correlation to mogul skiing that I felt was not boarder friendly.  Again, I haven't seen you ride so am basing this opinion solely on those boarders I've witnessed in the trees and bumps.



I've seen a handful of boarders ride moguls in the zipper with speed. Very few, but it can be done. I am a decent zipperline bump skier, and I skied one day with a friend's friend from Austria who was a snowboarder. He could freaking shred the moguls, all zipper, faster than I could


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> I've never seen you ride so I won't deny you can handle your board.
> 
> I've got twin tips so could technically "switch" but more often than not  the pace in the trees would not allow for such a move unless I've  slowed or come to a stop.
> 
> ...



Yeah...  I really don't see trees as moguls..  At least good trees.. 
Tree's do get bumped in a sense... But you lose the tops where I like to ride if there's a tree there.
In trees - I look for the straightest line always - a chute..    I can traverse across until i find it - i did the same when i skied too
I can ride bumps...  I can turn fast when I need to.   I don't always like it - but it can be done...   In REALLY steep trees like Pavalacini at A-Basin... Even if you wanted to side slip you'd just fall over because of steepness and there not being a lot of room in the rut..  I ride the trees in the Catskills.  Can be tight as hell and open like a cathedral... Bushwacking required...  
Mushroom Chutes at Jackson are awesome because you get rock and tree all at the same time plus steep and narrow..   
I've ridden them a bunch...  


And when i say poles are a pain -  I mean just another thing to get caught in tight trees...   I used to compete in bumps before I started riding full time - i get it...


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's a tight-trees snowboard plus for sure.  For instance, last year at Jay Peak, I was with some friends (I'm the only skier) and they slipped into a steep narrow section sideways to enter some beautiful trees that were pretty virgin due to entrance difficulty.  I couldnt enter that way, because the trees were way narrower than my 179s.   I was looking at it with an....."ummmmm" sort of look, lol.
> 
> As for the rest, DMC answered it pretty well.  Only thing I'd add (and this is for very tight trees/unmarked stuff) is the snowboarder presents a slightly smaller downhill profile.



Yeah... Jay is insane..  If you can do a little smart bushwacking you can be in some nice stuff...  We were outdoing out tele friends last time we were there..  Because on the dh profile and the fact we can duck lower and contort ourselves... haha...


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I've been all over that site, but thanks for the advice.  I actually have a golf course near my house that has some good hills and would be perfect.  As long as I can get out there without getting arrested for trespassing.



haha.. hope not..

but yeah - practice your transition..  Even at home it's good to practice..  But better outside in the snow.
We do it up at Hunter..  Take the lift up... Do a transition - skin into the woods and practice a couple and skin back...


----------



## dmc (Feb 19, 2013)

jaywbigred said:


> I've seen a handful of boarders ride moguls in the zipper with speed. Very few, but it can be done. I am a decent zipperline bump skier, and I skied one day with a friend's friend from Austria who was a snowboarder. He could freaking shred the moguls, all zipper, faster than I could



It can be done.. i just don't like it - but I can do it...  To me - zipperline moguls are a skier creation..  Just not into it.  Not where my heads at on the hill.. Having come from a mogul skier background I have the idea of what it takes to do...  So it's not that tough.. Tough thing is keeping stamina..


----------



## planb420 (Feb 19, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> The casual skier or rider will go less often, and this leaves the mountains for more dedicated enthusiasts.
> 
> My impression based on the average skill level of snowboarders I see vs skiers is that there are more skiers who see their sport as a way of life, and more snowboarders who just like to go once in a while.
> 
> .



Just wanted to chime in as a Boarder...its deff my way of life as I'm out most every day. I also can rip anything you put in front of me be it a terrain park, double black diamond, moguls, glades, BC, groomers and I do it all with the style that only a true Boarder can bring    You can ask many skiers in this forum, I'm sure they would back me up. It just takes a truely dedicated individual to master the art of snowboarding (I have been sharpening my skills for over 20 years, and I'm still no master) the problem I think was that the rebel mentality drew in too many weekend warriors that wanted to be cool but did not have the time to put into becoming good, thus diluting the sport and making us all as a whole look bad. But now as the upswing in twin tip rocker skis comes around I am seeing this trend in sking. There seems to be a lot of snotty, snarky little kids in the park just slip sliding the steeps and rolling over lips rocking their fav Line Skis. Most of these kids are lost on how to properly exicute a carve on a steep or navigate the glades. Overall I just think there is too much emphasis put on park riding by kids before they learn how to actually ride, thus creating sloppy bad habits. These habits are only re-enforced when they finally land a trick and think to themselves "well that worked that time so it must always be right" and this applys to both the skier and boarder. Not trying to start a war just pointing out an observation I have made over the years as someone who averages 80 days a season. With that said I dont think I'll ever stop boarding because of 2 reasons, First I love how it was something defferent to do while I was younger (yes I fed right into the rebel aspect) and how it meshes with my skate style in the off seasons, but most importiantly I admire all the greyhairs (70+ ers) I see strap into their boards each day and rip a line down, and hope that one day I can still be shredding the gnar at that age. REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE, but skiers are cool with me.


----------



## planb420 (Feb 19, 2013)

Cheese said:


> We've all seen plenty of skiers zip line moguls in competitions. Ski poles aren't a nuisance, they're an advantage for setting rhythm and keeping correct body position. However, I personally have never seen a boarder zip line moguls at any kind of speed. I've never seen a boarder score highly in a bump competition. Most of the boarders I witness on steep mogul terrain are either traversing multiple moguls or riding their heel edge down through the troughs. This isn't what I consider good technique in the trees but perhaps I'm just a biased skier. If mogul runs don't translate to tree runs for you then I think you've found far more wide open trees that haven't been bumped up from skier and rider traffic and don't have random debris which forces quick turning. It's this type of tree skiing and it's correlation to mogul skiing that I felt was not boarder friendly. Again, I haven't seen you ride so am basing this opinion solely on those boarders I've witnessed in the trees and bumps.



Just because you havnt seen it dosnt mean it hasnt happened.....Mogul Comp running a zipper downRiding some nice glades bumped up...and last but no least DOMINATING a slalom race against boarders and skiers...dont say it cant be done, someone prob already has


----------



## planb420 (Feb 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Do they have multiple board they use throughout the season for different conditions or types of riding, or do they just have 2 or 3 boards because they didn't sell the old one when they bought a new one?
> 
> I have 5 boards but 3 of them are unofficially retired. I've never sold a board. I still have all of them since I first started. One day they will make an awesome display in my man cave. The two I use are similar, but I keep the newer one for good conditions and the older one for days with likely rock encounters.




I personally have 4 at the moment, My Nug (rides it ALL/Daily Driver) My Roadsoda (Park), My X8 (Deep Carve/Race), My B Custom (Urban/Rock/ Unknown BC)  and they all get use from time to time...and that makes mantaining them all a real pain in the ass


----------



## KD7000 (Feb 19, 2013)

I've been snowboarding for 24 years now, and I'm getting a bit tired of sitting down in the snow.   I did start skiing again about 5 years ago, and thoroughly enjoy that too.

I only own 1 board.  I had one season where I thought about keeping my old board for a rock deck, but knew it would just wind up sitting around.  Selling it off helped pay for other goodies, too.

I'd be pretty upset if I didn't get a solid 5 years out of my current board.  Too damn pricey to replace!

Boarding in deep powder is one of the greatest feelings ever. Sooooo much fun.


----------



## octopus (Feb 19, 2013)

dmc, have a spliff on the way, first split and thanks for the advice. i'll prob head to one of the small nelsap hills around here and practice.

moguls are for skiers. in the trees, if i can find the right line its like a snake run at a skatepark, so fun.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 19, 2013)

Didn't realize you needed to snowboard to enjoy a spliff.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 19, 2013)

planb420 said:


> I personally have 4 at the moment, My Nug (rides it ALL/Daily Driver) My Roadsoda (Park), My X8 (Deep Carve/Race), My B Custom (Urban/Rock/ Unknown BC)  and they all get use from time to time...and that makes mantaining them all a real pain in the ass



I really want to try a Nug sometime. I've heard they are super fun.  But I'd say guys like you are far from the norm.  I ride 20-30 days a year, so it's really not necessary for me to have a giant golf bag of boards.  Although that would be seriously cool...


----------



## octopus (Feb 19, 2013)

nugs are fun, until you hit solid ice trails. i have way too many snowboards


----------



## jaytrem (Feb 19, 2013)

No sure why, but as of 2 years ago, Southern California still had many many many more boarders than skiers.  If I had to estimate I'd say 95% at Mountain High and probably 60%-75% at Big Bear.  Maybe something to do with a lot of them being surfers?  Would love to go back in a few years and see if the percentages have changed.


----------



## dmc (Feb 20, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Didn't realize you needed to snowboard to enjoy a spliff.



i thought we did blunts...


----------



## marcski (Feb 20, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Keep your skis firmly planted on the snow (no jumping), ski only on trails (no glades, trees or boundary line skiing) and avoid terrain parks and you'll have pretty good idea of what skiing was like back then.  Boring!



I've been skiing in the trees and woods and looking for kickers since I was a kid in the 70's.  Skiing was and is never boring!!!


----------



## dmc (Feb 20, 2013)

marcski said:


> I've been skiing in the trees and woods and looking for kickers since I was a kid in the 70's.  Skiing was and is never boring!!!



yeah... no shti...


----------



## dmc (Feb 20, 2013)

jaytrem said:


> No sure why, but as of 2 years ago, Southern California still had many many many more boarders than skiers.  If I had to estimate I'd say 95% at Mountain High and probably 60%-75% at Big Bear.  Maybe something to do with a lot of them being surfers?  Would love to go back in a few years and see if the percentages have changed.



SoCal Surf culture...


----------



## Mpdsnowman (Feb 20, 2013)

> Have to disagree with this too.  While skis are a much more practical and efficient all-mountain tool than snowboards, if there was one place where I think snowboarding has an advantage over skiing, I would say it would be in trees.



It can be..but it depends on the glade(s). Ive been in some glades where moguls run ramp id and when you go thru on a board you can get tossed where on skies your poles can guide you a little better....

I got flipped off a mogul last year at Jay and landed in a position where I almost had a protruding branch shoved up my ass lol...or even worse lol....

And this is exactly how I landed...


----------



## Cheese (Feb 20, 2013)

planb420 said:


> Just because you havnt seen it dosnt mean it hasnt happened.....View attachment 7774Mogul Comp running a zipper downView attachment 7775Riding some nice glades bumped up...and last but no least DOMINATING a slalom race against boarders and skiers...dont say it cant be done, someone prob already hasView attachment 7776



Well done!


----------

