# Death At Jay Peak



## UVSHTSTRM (Feb 11, 2012)

http://www.wcax.com/story/16915463/snowboarder-dies-at-jay-peak


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## Nick (Feb 11, 2012)

urgh, rip


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## UVSHTSTRM (Feb 11, 2012)

While it probably isn't the case, it seems a skier/rider passes each week.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 11, 2012)

Note the author's capitalization of the entire word in, _"WAS wearing a helmet"_.  

I think a lot of people, author obviously included, are under the impression that somehow wearing a helmet makes one impervious.


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## ski stef (Feb 11, 2012)

yeah, I noticed that as well.  I wonder if he wasn't wearing a helmet what the author would have said.  That being said...I still need to invest.


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## Cornhead (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm convinced the conditions this season are more dangerous than normal. How many deaths on the EC this year? I thought I was going to witness one at Plattekill today. This kid looses control on Upper Face, right where Sundown bisects it. I was on the lift, it was eerily similar to the post with the video of the skier hitting the tree a Smuggs. He was able to fall down and keep from going into the woods, but it was close. All this frozen granular is pretty fast, and the "base" is a sheet of ice. It adds up to higher speeds with less ability to control, a deadly combination.


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## snowmonster (Feb 11, 2012)

RIP. This is a terrible string of ski area deaths. I agree that the snow surfaces are making it tricky out there. This afternoon at Loon, I could hear the wailing of sirens in the background. I hope it's not anything major.


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## Zand (Feb 12, 2012)

Anyone know what trail? It said it was a black diamond, wouldn't surprise me if it was Jet or Haines, they've been rinks all year. 

RIP... sad to see all the deaths recently but it always happens during crappy winters due to the hard fast conditions. That's why no matter how bad the coverage is I stay on the natural stuff anytime it's open. Not as easy to get going too fast and slip on ice. I'd rather break a leg hitting a tree in the woods then kill myself on a steep icy groomer.


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## ski_resort_observer (Feb 12, 2012)

Sadly, there were skier deaths at Keystone and Solitude recently. Abit strange but both men were repotably in their 70's from New England. The report stated that Keystone has had 3 deaths this season.


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## RISkier (Feb 12, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Note the author's capitalization of the entire word in, _"WAS wearing a helmet"_.
> 
> I think a lot of people, author obviously included, are under the impression that somehow wearing a helmet makes one impervious.



Always sad to hear of these kinds of events and they seem much more frequent this year. Condolences to the family and friends of the victim. Agree about helmets. They'll certainly help if you fall and hit your head on a icy slope, or have a glancing blow. But if someone has a direct collision with an immovable object, even at relatively moderate speeds, the helmet won't do much good. I think they give folks a false sense of security. A level 3 ski instructor friend of ours told us most of the on slope fatalities are the result of internal injuries and bleeding that can't be stopped before they can get persons to medical facilities. I certainly don't know the stats on that and don't know that he does either. But it's pretty clear that helmets don't make anyone impervious.


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## riverc0il (Feb 12, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Note the author's capitalization of the entire word in, _"WAS wearing a helmet"_.


For a professional major newspaper, the capitalization of an entire word for emphasis very lame. But whether a skier or rider is wearing a helmet during an accident should always be included because it is something news readers want to know. It is the first question asked if the information isn't included in the article.


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## Magog Fishy (Feb 12, 2012)

Horrible news...RIP, and vibes to the family. Tough one too for Ski Patrol -- I am sure they did everything they could.

Did not hear anything up at the hill yesterday, so I am too wondering what trail it happened on. On a run late morning I was about to enter the Freezer lift corral, and noticed over to my right a snowmobile pulling a ski patrol sled with somebody in it. I looked again quickly, and then did not think anything of it since it looked like the torso was wrapped in a blanket but the face appeared to be showing. 

Groomers were somewhat icy yesterday in the usual thoroughfare spots. Mainly skied the trees -- for the most part good a base on everything. Found it a bit ironic Ski Patrol had signs at the lifts saying stay on the groomers since they had the best condition when in fact it seemed like the trees/ungroomed had the best conditions. Not very crowded yesterday.


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## Nick (Feb 12, 2012)

It sounds like in a typical year about 40 people die skiing / boarding

http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/facts-ski-snbd-safety.asp



> Skiing/snowboarding
> 2009/10 number of fatalities*	38
> 2008 number of ski/snowboard participants (in millions)**	10.0
> Fatalities per million participants	3.8
> ...



So ... I don't know if that is just in the US or what, but that probably works out to about 7, 8 people per month during the season right.


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## Nick (Feb 12, 2012)

Man this shit does freak me out, it happens so fast


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## billski (Feb 12, 2012)

Man, I must be the bad penny.  This stuff is happening on the same day I ski at an area.  Needless to say, this is a challenging year, technique and judgement are king.  Don't just be careful, but sharpen your skills, tone it down.  Last year's technique ain't cutting it this year.


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## billski (Feb 12, 2012)

Nick said:


> It sounds like in a typical year about 40 people die skiing / boarding
> 
> http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/facts-ski-snbd-safety.asp
> 
> ...



The more instructive number is how many serious injuries are suffered this year.  All anecdotal info indicates to me that we are way ahead of last year, with the season being only half over.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 12, 2012)

Nick said:


> Man this shit does freak me out, it happens so fast



It looks like he takes a line directly at the trees.    My best guess is that that guy's not used to skiing in fresh snow.


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## riverc0il (Feb 12, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> It looks like he takes a line directly at the trees.    My best guess is that that guy's not used to skiing in fresh snow.


Nice Monday Morning QB'ing, there. :roll:

There is nothing wrong with his line choice. I've certainly skied significantly tight lines. Right before the impact, you'll notice that the skier's left ski flies way out to the left. I don't know what the skier hit, but he hit something throwing him off balance. I can't imagine someone would carry that much speed into the trees without having much experience skiing trees in fresh snow. When skiers are uncomfortable, they tend to slow down and go side to side more.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 12, 2012)

Yes it happens that fast. Guy looked like he was lucky. When I hit a tree I wasn't going nearly as fast as he seemed to be. Couldn't even talk for a minute or so after because I got the wind knocked out of me. If I was going any faster I don't think I'd be here typing right now. Hurt myself pretty bad (ribs & both wrists) but was able to ski down under my own power. Still have a lump on my rib cage over 10 years later.

I still ski in the tree's but believe me slowly & cautiously.


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## riverc0il (Feb 12, 2012)

Having hit a tree before, it is pretty damn crazy what the impact feels like. Took the wind completely out of me and broke a bone just like that, wasn't even going very fast.


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## Smasandian (Feb 12, 2012)

While I don't know about the stats but I always felt press and people's opinions tend to sway towards what happening at that moment.

For example, a rash of skiing deaths happen, press are more likely to go out of their way to cover later skiing deaths that year and make a bigger deal of it because that's what's in people's minds.

Another example when Hurricane Katrina happened, the press covered storms more frequently even though some of them were not a big deal.

This could be the case why we are seeing more deaths. Maybe there isn't more but because Sarah Burke's accident or other contributions, the press are more likely to cover it because it gains more hits/sells papers.

This might not be the case but I always felt that it's usually is.


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## bobbutts (Feb 12, 2012)

Lift serviced, moderately steep or steeper with flat icy conditions is pretty high on the danger list in my book. Lots of things can go wrong, and recovery/self-arrest is hindered.  Awful to see people get hurt let alone killed out there  RIP


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## vdk03 (Feb 12, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Right before the impact, you'll notice that the skier's left ski flies way out to the left. I don't know what the skier hit, but he hit something throwing him off balance.



First time I watched it I also thought he just skied right into the tree. It wasn't till you mentioned this and I went and watched it again that I saw his ski get hung up. :-o


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## steamboat1 (Feb 12, 2012)

http://blog.ctnews.com/snowzone/2012/02/11/skier-dies-at-mount-snow/


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## drjeff (Feb 12, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> http://blog.ctnews.com/snowzone/2012/02/11/skier-dies-at-mount-snow/



Having skied Ridge less than 30 min before this tragic accident happened last Monday, I can say that the snow surface was perfectly machine groomed freshly manmade packed powder. There was some in and out flat light depending on where the clouds were last Monday AM. From what I have heard, he was skiing with a group of friends that included EMT's so he likely had medical attention as quickly as possible.

Made it an interesting ride home last Monday when my 6yr old son was telling me how he had seen the ski patrol bringing a guy down on the sled with a man on top "punching the guy in the stomach"


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## Glenn (Feb 12, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Note the author's capitalization of the entire word in, _"WAS wearing a helmet"_.
> 
> I think a lot of people, author obviously included, are under the impression that somehow wearing a helmet makes one impervious.



I agree. That in itself can be dangerous.


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## drjeff (Feb 12, 2012)

Glenn said:


> I agree. That in itself can be dangerous.



  And if you've ever seen Glenn on the slopes you'd get this! (BTW I almost didn't recognize Mitz today since she didn't have any BLUE on!


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## Glenn (Feb 12, 2012)

She was rockin'  new ski pants today.  :lol:


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## makimono (Feb 12, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Nice Monday Morning QB'ing, there. :roll:
> 
> There is nothing wrong with his line choice. I've certainly skied significantly tight lines. Right before the impact, you'll notice that the skier's left ski flies way out to the left. I don't know what the skier hit, but he hit something throwing him off balance. I can't imagine someone would carry that much speed into the trees without having much experience skiing trees in fresh snow. When skiers are uncomfortable, they tend to slow down and go side to side more.



Looks like he tagged the first huge pine with his right shoulder or hip, like he was going around a break-a-way slalom gate. :blink:


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## drjeff (Feb 12, 2012)

Glenn said:


> She was rockin'  new ski pants today.  :lol:



As opposed to the new pants or coat she'll be rocking NEXT week


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## Glenn (Feb 12, 2012)

Equipe in Rawsonville had some good deals yesterday. I even picked up a set of running sneaks. Although, 50% off $600 wasn't a good deal on a Killy coat. IMHO... :lol:


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## drjeff (Feb 12, 2012)

Glenn said:


> Equipe in Rawsonville had some good deals yesterday. I even picked up a set of running sneaks. Although, 50% off $600 wasn't a good deal on a Killy coat. IMHO... :lol:



Yah, a few rounds of full priced beers at the Station beats 50% off a Killy coat anyday in my book!


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## MommaBear (Feb 12, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> For a professional major newspaper, the capitalization of an entire word for emphasis very lame. But whether a skier or rider is wearing a helmet during an accident should always be included because it is something news readers want to know. It is the first question asked if the information isn't included in the article.



As I was reading the original article aloud to my son, just before I read the sentence about the snowboarder wearing a helmet, my son says "he probably wasn't wearing a helmet".  He was surprised when I read that he WAS.  Guess we'll have a few more discussions on how the helmet is helpful, but won't keep you totally safe.


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## BigJay (Feb 12, 2012)

Zand said:


> Anyone know what trail? It said it was a black diamond, wouldn't surprise me if it was Jet or Haines, they've been rinks all year.
> 
> RIP... sad to see all the deaths recently but it always happens during crappy winters due to the hard fast conditions. That's why no matter how bad the coverage is I stay on the natural stuff anytime it's open. Not as easy to get going too fast and slip on ice. I'd rather break a leg hitting a tree in the woods then kill myself on a steep icy groomer.



You have to be kidding... Jet has always the best snow of all groomers... Haynes glacier was awful saturday but sunday it was OK. There is a lot more ice and the blue squares (Northway, Goat Run, etc) then in the Jet area...

...and the snowboarder fell on the can-am and went into the trees.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 12, 2012)

BigJay said:


> ...and *the snowboarder fell on the can-am *and went into the trees.



Upper or Lower?


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## riverc0il (Feb 13, 2012)

Upper Can Am can be treacherous when it is slick. Can Am may be the trail I ski the least at Jay. Nothing I can't stand more than a steep scraped off trail on which everyone throws their skis sideways and scrapes it down to frozen groomer tracks. Ick. Lower part is pretty flat but also has the park. Since they didn't mention the park, it seems likely it was the upper section.


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## catskills (Feb 13, 2012)

RIP sad to hear all these deaths.

Reality is that 4 deaths per week over 10 weeks would bring us to our normal average of about 40 deaths per ski season.  Majority of deaths are skiers rather than snowboarders.


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## C-Rex (Feb 13, 2012)

What surprises me is the number of deaths where people are wearing helmets, but they don't say what the cause of death was.  I know that's kind of a violation of privacy but it'd be useful to make the sports safer. If the person was wearing a helmet and died of a head injury, then the effectiveness of helmets gets called into question.  But it doesn't really matter if you break a leg, sever an artery, and bleed out.


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## Smellytele (Feb 13, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> What surprises me is the number of deaths where people are wearing helmets, but they don't say what the cause of death was.  I know that's kind of a violation of privacy but it'd be useful to make the sports safer. If the person was wearing a helmet and died of a head injury, then the effectiveness of helmets gets called into question.  But it doesn't really matter if you break a leg, sever an artery, and bleed out.



Most reports of death seem to be internal injuries with or without a helmet.


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## kingdom-tele (Feb 13, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> What surprises me is the number of deaths where people are wearing helmets, but they don't say what the cause of death was.  I know that's kind of a violation of privacy but it'd be useful to make the sports safer.* If the person was wearing a helmet and died of a head injury, then the effectiveness of helmets gets called into question. * But it doesn't really matter if you break a leg, sever an artery, and bleed out.



I hesitate to even make a comment. Death of anyone, especially someone enjoying recreation is devistating and at a minimum should have a deeper impact on people than trying to deduce error, trail names,  gearing, or trauma.  

it is my understanding  that wearing a hemlet doesn't exempt anyone from potential head injury, I think they do dissapate forces better than just your skull though, maybe they are more "effective" in that regard only.

appreciate your days.


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## C-Rex (Feb 13, 2012)

kingdom-tele said:


> I hesitate to even make a comment. Death of anyone, especially someone enjoying recreation is devistating and at a minimum should have a deeper impact on people than trying to deduce error, trail names,  gearing, or trauma. .



What are you talking about?  

I'm talking about getting information that could help make our respective sports safer.  If we find trends in the causes of fatal injuries, we may be able to do something to help avoid them.  Even if I knew the person in question, and was devastated from the loss, I'd still want to know the details of what happened.  Even if it was a careless attitude or stupid choice that caused the incident.  Why are people so afraid to assign responsibility to the dead. I'm not going to sit around and pretend it was nobody's fault and that it was just "God" calling him home.  Knowing what truly caused the incident will help me avoid the same mistake.  If I die on the mountain, I want people to know what happened.  Even if it was just that I did something dumb.  Maybe someone else will avoid the same stupid choice.


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## MV Frank (Feb 13, 2012)

so the guy that died actually works at my company, which is how I originally heard about it. young guy...which makes it especially tragic


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## Zand (Feb 13, 2012)

Can-Am doesn't surprise me... skied it yesterday and while it wasn't awful, there were a few spots on skiers right where the boilerplate came out of nowhere. It surprised me even though I tried my best to scout where the bad spots were from the lift.

As for the Jet, I don't think I've ever been up there when it didn't get pretty bad after noon or so, especially on a weekend. Not as bad as Northway or Goat, no, but still enough (considering its steepness) that I can definitely see someone losing it and smacking a tree or lift tower.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 13, 2012)

catskills said:


> Reality is that *4 deaths per week over 10 weeks would bring us to our normal average of about 40 deaths per ski season.*



Okay, but I'm not sure I understand your point given the season is substantially longer than 10 weeks.



catskills said:


> *Majority of deaths are skiers rather than snowboarders.*



Okay, but a majority of people on the mountain are skiers rather than snowboarders.  Not sure I understand your point here either.


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## kingdom-tele (Feb 13, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> I'm talking about getting information that could help make our respective sports safer.  If we find trends in the causes of fatal injuries, we may be able to do something to help avoid them.  Even if I knew the person in question, and was devastated from the loss, I'd still want to know the details of what happened.  Even if it was a careless attitude or stupid choice that caused the incident.  Why are people so afraid to assign responsibility to the dead. I'm not going to sit around and pretend it was nobody's fault and that it was just "God" calling him home.  Knowing what truly caused the incident will help me avoid the same mistake.  If I die on the mountain, I want people to know what happened.  Even if it was just that I did something dumb.  Maybe someone else will avoid the same stupid choice.



what else do you need to know to make your own decision processes?

trends? please tell me your not that naive. but I suppose if you believe dissection of events and attempting to rationalize a thousand different variables that no one could possibly know is somehow more useful than developing your own awareness then analysis of "trends" might be useful.

good luck.  be safe.


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## Madroch (Feb 13, 2012)

Seems like this year I am noticing the stories a lot more... I don't need to know how/why/what they were wearing... the lesson I get reinforced is we are quite mortal and it can all be over in the millisecond it takes to catch a tip, log, stump, ice patch--skiing is a dangerous passion to have.. enjoy every moment- and do so responsibly...I swear I don't know whether to hug my kids or smack in the head when they do stupid kid stuff on the slopes... so I do both--not necessarily in that order-- only seems to confuse the hell out em...


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## C-Rex (Feb 13, 2012)

kingdom-tele said:


> what else do you need to know to make your own decision processes?
> 
> trends? please tell me your not that naive. but I suppose if you believe dissection of events and attempting to rationalize a thousand different variables that no one could possibly know is somehow more useful than developing your own awareness then analysis of "trends" might be useful.
> 
> good luck.  be safe.




Well, if you look at all the variables over time, and notice one that pretty common, you may be able to do something to take that variable out of the equation.  Will it save everyone from that variable? No.  Will other variables still kill people? You bet.  But if you could reduce the numbers, then why not.  One life is worth any investment.  I'm not going to just accept "He fell. He died. He had a helmet on." as the whole story. Did he break his neck?  Did he get impaled on a broken off limb?  Did he break ribs and puncture a lung?  Did he break a leg and sever an artery?  How fast was he going?  How far did he slide before impact?  There's a million details that could lead to a better understanding of how these things happen.

Any way this info can educate people or lead to better safety equipment is good.  So I don't really understand where your "well, I don't understand it, so eff-it." attitude comes from.


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## drjeff (Feb 13, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Okay, but I'm not sure I understand your point given the season is substantially longer than 10 weeks.



True, however the vast majority of the on average 65 or so million skier/rider visits do happen in the basically 10 week time frame between Christmas and mid March


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## kingdom-tele (Feb 13, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> Well, if you look at all the variables over time, and notice one that pretty common, you may be able to do something to take that variable out of the equation.  Will it save everyone from that variable? No.  Will other variables still kill people? You bet.  But if you could reduce the numbers, then why not.  One life is worth any investment.  I'm not going to just accept "He fell. He died. He had a helmet on." as the whole story. Did he break his neck?  Did he get impaled on a broken off limb?  Did he break ribs and puncture a lung?  Did he break a leg and sever an artery?  How fast was he going?  How far did he slide before impact?  There's a million details that could lead to a better understanding of how these things happen.
> 
> Any way this info can educate people or lead to better safety equipment is good.  So I don't really understand where your "well, I don't understand it, so eff-it." attitude comes from.



known variables: gravity, speed, ground reaction forces, icy surfaces, immovable objects, human physiology.

unkown variables:  each individuals ontogenetics  that led up to the moment of their passing.

its your choice to delve into the minutia of someone else's passing,  just seems arbitrary when your the one standing over a drop deciding how to proceed down a mountain

be safe, be aware


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## Edd (Feb 13, 2012)

"Ontogenetics ".... Had to look this up. 

One thing frequently mentioned in helmet threads is the notion that a helmet makes the skier overconfident. This doesn't seem plausible to me unless we're talking about a teenager. I don't know a single person who fits into that category.


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## David Metsky (Feb 13, 2012)

kingdom-tele said:


> known variables: gravity, speed, ground reaction forces, icy surfaces, immovable objects, human physiology.
> 
> unkown variables:  each individuals ontogenetics  that led up to the moment of their passing.



Other variables - Changes in ski technology (shaped vs straight), changes in boots (higher boots leading to tib/fib fractures), changes in bindings, aggressive grooming and trail construction/layout, snowmaking, lots more people skiing the trees/parks/speed.


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## BigJay (Feb 13, 2012)

Anyone ever tought about using a search engine with the words: JAY PEAK DEATH

You get detailed articles.

We saw the evac and the patrol doing CPR all the way down to the bottom.

Accident happened after the liftline/can-am split.

Can-Am was skiing great on sunday... lots of fluff and plenty of support to get some grip out of your edges... can't say the same about Northway, Goat Run and Vermonter...

Things were still pretty good over the Jet side at 3PM. Woods were scrapped clean all over the mountain sunday afternoon!


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 13, 2012)

drjeff said:


> *True, however the vast majority of the on average 65 or so million skier/rider visits do happen in the basically 10 week time frame between Christmas and mid March*



I did think of that, and it makes sense especially in the east (out west the season generally starts/ends - sooner/later), but when your N's are so small to begin with (38 or 40) taken out of a such a massive population (~65 Million), even if a very small number like 2 or 5 deaths fell outside that 10 week range it will mathematically make a huge difference overall.  That's my long-winded way of saying I dont understand the point of calling out those 10 weeks rather than the whole season.


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## mlctvt (Feb 13, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> http://blog.ctnews.com/snowzone/2012/02/11/skier-dies-at-mount-snow/



Ridge is the same trail where the last skier died at Mount Snow a few years ago. In that case it was a young woman. 
I'm quite certain both happened in the steep section. High speed could have been an issue? This section of trail is where I always see my fastest speeds for a blue trail.


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## billski (Feb 13, 2012)

For every death there are larger number of accidents that under similar circumstances did not result in death.  
For every head injury case, how many were avoided because of a helmet.  This information is not readily available because walk-aways are unknown.  I'd rather wear a bucket than not.  While providing no guarantee, it most likely mitigates the risk.

Like jrmagic, I did a face plant on Saturday onto bullet-proof scratch.  Got a couple big shiners and a bruise around the lower goggles. I would probably have broken a few things had I not had the helmet shell on.  I was also wearing a race helmet which has more protection below the ears than most.  Did I report it?  No.  Nor the huge bruise on my hip.


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## Abubob (Feb 13, 2012)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> http://www.wcax.com/story/16915463/snowboarder-dies-at-jay-peak



Thought maybe this was about Whitney.


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## 2knees (Feb 13, 2012)

Abubob said:


> Thought maybe this was about Whitney.





Abubob said:


> I thought maybe she's fallen off a chair lift.





Abubob said:


> Did you hit a tree?



I think you might be trying too hard.


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## Abubob (Feb 13, 2012)

2knees said:


> I think you might be trying too hard.


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## Glenn (Feb 13, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> What surprises me is the number of deaths where people are wearing helmets, but they don't say what the cause of death was.  I know that's kind of a violation of privacy but it'd be useful to make the sports safer. If the person was wearing a helmet and died of a head injury, then the effectiveness of helmets gets called into question.  But it doesn't really matter if you break a leg, sever an artery, and bleed out.



I'm not trying to be morbid... It doesn't surprise me. When your body hits an imoveable object at a certain rate of speed, a helmet isn't going to do much good; internal injuries.

As I hinted to in another post, a lot of folks think you're "safe" with a helmet. That's true to a certain regard, but you're far from invincible.


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## Highway Star (Feb 13, 2012)

Nick said:


> Man this shit does freak me out, it happens so fast


 
That's a perfect example of how not to ski trees.  20mph into huge pine trunks?  No thanks.


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## catskills (Feb 13, 2012)

Edd said:


> "Ontogenetics ".... Had to look this up.
> 
> One thing frequently mentioned in helmet threads is the notion that a helmet makes the skier overconfident. This doesn't seem plausible to me unless we're talking about a teenager. I don't know a single person who fits into that category.



Really!   Consider this analogy.  Lets say you have a 12 inch long metal spike attached to the middle of your car's steering wheel pointed at your heart.  Will you drive slower and take less risk with the spike then you would without the spike?  I rest my case.  

Reality is they have done speed tests at multiple ski areas.  I believe the skier speed with helmets on average is something like 4 MPH faster than skiers without helmets.  Snowboarders also go slower than skiers. Kinetic energy your body caries increases non-linear with increased in speed.  4 MPH speed increase can be a huge increase in kinetic energy and the difference between life and death.  

As an EMT blunt force trauma to chest is a real killer.  Ribs have a tendency to puncture lungs.  The pericardium sac around the heart can fill up with blood from only a slight bleed from the heart.  The blood builds up pressure in the pericardium sac and pushes on the heart  causing a decrease in difference between the systolic and diastolic blood pressure readings (narrowing).   Your spleen in the upper left quadrant of the abdomen may be ruptured.  Without emergency treatment, a ruptured spleen can cause life-threatening internal bleeding.   Fractured pelvis may result in severe  internal bleeding. There are a lot of ways to die without a head injury.


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## drjeff (Feb 14, 2012)

catskills said:


> Really!   Consider this analogy.  Lets say you have a 12 inch long metal spike attached to the middle of your car's steering wheel pointed at your heart.  Will you drive slower and take less risk with the spike then you would without the spike?  I rest my case.
> 
> Reality is they have done speed tests at multiple ski areas.  I believe the skier speed with helmets on average is something like 4 MPH faster than skiers without helmets.  Snowboarders also go slower than skiers. Kinetic energy your body caries increases non-linear with increased in speed.  4 MPH speed increase can be a huge increase in kinetic energy and the difference between life and death.
> 
> As an EMT blunt force trauma to chest is a real killer.  Ribs have a tendency to puncture lungs.  The pericardium sac around the heart can fill up with blood from only a slight bleed from the heart.  The blood builds up pressure in the pericardium sac and pushes on the heart  causing a decrease in difference between the systolic and diastolic blood pressure readings (narrowing).   Your spleen in the upper left quadrant of the abdomen may be ruptured.  Without emergency treatment, a ruptured spleen can cause life-threatening internal bleeding.   Fractured pelvis may result in severe  internal bleeding. There are a lot of ways to die without a head injury.



Very true!  It seems though that many a fatality this season isn't because of head trauma (or atleast major, life threatening head trauma), but from blunt force torso trauma.  

If you then take away the helmet and slow down a person by the 4MPH average and have them slide into that tree with their torso at say 25 mph instead of 30 mph, I don't really think that you'd see any difference in the mortality rates.

The reality is that until all folks on the slopes make a conscientious effort to really slow down and give some extra space between themselves and others and the woods, that this type of event will be a relatively speaking regular news story.  And even with more speed and/or space awareness on the hill, fatalities will still continue to happen


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## skiladi (Feb 14, 2012)

*Just a note on helmet usage.*

I ski/ride with a helmet 99% of the time. I would like to say this: Helmets have a shelf life. Check with the manufacturer but I think it is about five years. Also make certain you have a helmet that fits correctly. And even if your head fills that space , please buckle the safety strap. If your helmet is damaged , particularly if there is a crack , throw it away. I won't speculate on the cause of someone's death but I agree with catskills. There are many reasons for such a tragic accident , so please be safe out there and stay aware of your surroundings and changing conditions. What skied like a dream @ 9 a.m. might be a luge by 11 a.m. Just sayin'


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## BMac (Feb 14, 2012)

Aren't there already plenty of helmet threads out there?  Maybe start a new one and take this discussion there?


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