# RUMOR...Killington Opening This Weekend!



## Highway Star (Oct 14, 2009)

Just got word from a friend who just got official word...... 

*The Beast Of The East scoffs at your triple chair with midstation.*


----------



## St. Bear (Oct 14, 2009)

Well, they kind of have to at this point.


----------



## umby (Oct 14, 2009)

this better not be a joke.

can anyone with a less of reputation for outrageous posts confirm this?


----------



## BigK (Oct 14, 2009)

They are trying for this weekend....I wouldn't trust the sourceless wonder


----------



## Puck it (Oct 14, 2009)

I would like to know how they are handling this. The season passes have not even arrived yet. 

I will go on Sunday if they are open.

He posted the same on K-zone.


----------



## Groundskeeper Willie (Oct 14, 2009)

*openin this weekend?*

keep yer knickers on....everyone seems to know everything about...everything !....for that matter.....just ask DIS!


----------



## Puck it (Oct 14, 2009)

Guns are stilll on up in the Northridge area based on the moutain view,  You can see the cloud of snowmaking move over the Canyon quad.


----------



## SpinmasterK (Oct 14, 2009)

We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm.

http://Insider.Killington.com


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 14, 2009)

Rumor mongering sucks. Thumbs down.


----------



## Greg (Oct 14, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Rumor mongering sucks. Thumbs down.



Agreed. Which is why I prefaced the thread title...


----------



## Geoff (Oct 14, 2009)

SpinmasterK said:


> We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm.
> 
> http://Insider.Killington.com



I was out on Lower Chute at 5:30 tonight looking at the back hoe that's up there installing the fan gun.    It was 31F in the parking lot.   The sky is clear and the humidity is plenty low enough to blow snow right to the bottom for the next 14 hours.   Nothing was set up to blow snow below the bottom of the Glades triple.   Killington isn't even trying.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 14, 2009)

Greg said:


> Agreed. Which is why I prefaced the thread title...


Oh wow, it was not even prefaced as a rumor when the thread was created? I honestly did not even see the preface until I saw SpinmasterK's post. My heart stopped a beat or two when I realized I couldn't ski this weekend and thought they were opening. 

S'all good. This thread at the least will be useful as a credibility barometer...


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 14, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I was out on Lower Chute at 5:30 tonight looking at the back hoe that's up there installing the fan gun. It was 31F in the parking lot. The sky is clear and the humidity is plenty low enough to blow snow right to the bottom for the next 14 hours. Nothing was set up to blow snow below the bottom of the Glades triple. Killington isn't even trying.


 
Epic fail.....?


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 14, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Oh wow, it was not even prefaced as a rumor when the thread was created? I honestly did not even see the preface until I saw SpinmasterK's post. My heart stopped a beat or two when I realized I couldn't ski this weekend and thought they were opening.
> 
> S'all good. This thread at the least will be useful as a credibility barometer...


 
Remember, you heard it here first.


----------



## Geoff (Oct 14, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> Epic fail.....?



I'm trying to decide who has less credibility?   Highway Star or Tom Horrocks?

I think it's pathetic that Killington management refuses to talk straight.  This Horrocks marketing blitz is yet another example of their steady stream of half-truths.


----------



## skiingsnow (Oct 14, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I was out on Lower Chute at 5:30 tonight looking at the back hoe that's up there installing the fan gun.    It was 31F in the parking lot.   The sky is clear and the humidity is plenty low enough to blow snow right to the bottom for the next 14 hours.   Nothing was set up to blow snow below the bottom of the Glades triple.   Killington isn't even trying.



Come on Tom!!! You guys gotta go for it and you gotta go now!! You guys have a longer window this year compared to last year with similar temps. Last year snowmaking wed, thu, warm fri with a bit of melting, snowmaking back sat and open sun. That's 3 days, interrupted too. This year you got wed, thu, fri, up top the whole time with good temps at night for lower. Snowmaking temps at night sat 22*, sun 26*, mon 26*, tues 28*  according to nws at mid mountain...

Sure it's going to warm up, but it doesn't look that bad!


----------



## jerryg (Oct 14, 2009)

SpinmasterK said:


> We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm.
> 
> http://Insider.Killington.com



Isn't K's base around the same elevation as the Locke Triple's midstation. Are the temps really that much different between western Maine and the middle of Vermont right now?


----------



## RootDKJ (Oct 14, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I'm trying to decide who has less credibility?   Highway Star or Tom Horrock.



HighwayStar


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 14, 2009)

Dear Killington,

Please open this weekend.  Doing so will syphon traffic away from Sunday River and improve my skiing experience there on Saturday.

k thnx



PS, I do intend on skiing your mountain this winter, perhaps soon if you have better early season pricing than last season


----------



## BigK (Oct 14, 2009)

It is a definite no go this weekend.


----------



## andyzee (Oct 14, 2009)

Guess it didn't take long for the beast to get de-clawed.


----------



## mister moose (Oct 14, 2009)

SpinmasterK said:


> We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm.





			
				NOAA as of 4pm said:
			
		

> Tonight:low around 23. North wind around 8 mph.
> 
> Thursday:  high near 33. North wind around 6 mph.
> 
> ...



Looks pretty cold to me.  

_Where's the Beast?_


----------



## mondeo (Oct 14, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I was out on Lower Chute at 5:30 tonight* looking at the back hoe that's up there installing the fan gun.*    It was 31F in the parking lot.   The sky is clear and the humidity is plenty low enough to blow snow right to the bottom for the next 14 hours.   Nothing was set up to blow snow below the bottom of the Glades triple.   Killington isn't even trying.


I wonder if that has anything to do with it. If I understand correctly where they're putting that thing, installing the fan gun and making snow on their T2B route might not work well together?


----------



## Tin Woodsman (Oct 14, 2009)

Wow - skiingsnow comes out of this thread with more credibility than Tom Horrocks.  

Bad start for the Beast.

Asking customers to put up with a little trucking is Beastly.  Claiming you need to wait until you can go T2B, despite the fact that temps seem acceptable, is not Beastly at all.  More Leastly.


----------



## millerm277 (Oct 14, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I wonder if that has anything to do with it. If I understand correctly where they're putting that thing, installing the fan gun and making snow on their T2B route might not work well together?



Agreed. On the other hand....they could just as easily shift down one trail, and still be able to do T2B, if that was the real reason. (Mouse Run).

A little snow won't cause a problem (hell, there's been some natural snow there recently), but I could understand not being able to get the fan gun in place if the ground becomes snow-covered, so not making snow on BB does make sense in that light....but they've got other options. On that same note...they probably planned this months in advance, to be ready for late October snowmaking. Who really would have thought there would have be skiing in the Northeast on October 14th? I believe everyone was expecting Halloween at the earliest....ski areas probably were too.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 14, 2009)

Granted it's just the beginner hill for some rails and hits, but Mount Snow will be opening this Saturday after a couple of nights with 9 fan guns running down in the base area.  Fan guns rule!


----------



## 2knees (Oct 14, 2009)

not to be a dick, but whats the big deal over who opens first, for a few days, on half a run?  Congrats to sunday river.  Killington people confuse me.


----------



## millerm277 (Oct 14, 2009)

2knees said:


> not to be a dick, but whats the big deal over who opens first, for a few days, on half a run?  Congrats to sunday river.  Killington people confuse me.



Nothing really. Bragging rights and PR. First to T2B is a bit more interesting.....but really, I care much more about who opens enough terrain for me to actually consider the drive ski there. (Something in the neighborhood of more than 2 runs. Or, at Killington: Glades area, and all of the snowmaking terrain on Snowdon.


----------



## bigbob (Oct 15, 2009)

Couldn't snow be made on east fall to the runout. I think this would be a shorter distance to cover, no problems with the on going construction. Then the K 1 could be used, terrain would be for advanced snow riders, keeps the gapers at bay.


----------



## skiadikt (Oct 15, 2009)

skiingsnow said:


> Come on Tom!!! You guys gotta go for it and you gotta go now!! You guys have a longer window this year compared to last year with similar temps. Last year snowmaking wed, thu, warm fri with a bit of melting, snowmaking back sat and open sun. That's 3 days, interrupted too. This year you got wed, thu, fri, up top the whole time with good temps at night for lower. Snowmaking temps at night sat 22*, sun 26*, mon 26*, tues 28*  according to nws at mid mountain...
> 
> Sure it's going to warm up, but it doesn't look that bad!



what have you done with skippy?


----------



## SpinmasterK (Oct 15, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I'm trying to decide who has less credibility?   Highway Star or Tom Horrocks?
> 
> I think it's pathetic that Killington management refuses to talk straight.  This Horrocks marketing blitz is yet another example of their steady stream of half-truths.



Straight talk! If you have specific questions, ask! Feel free to email me thorrocks@Killington.com or call me on my cell 802-770-8985.


----------



## Bostonian (Oct 15, 2009)

So the question should be do I go to SR or Mt Snow to get some early turns in, since K has seemed to have dropped the ball?


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

bigbob said:


> Couldn't snow be made on east fall to the runout. I think this would be a shorter distance to cover, no problems with the on going construction. Then the K 1 could be used, terrain would be for advanced snow riders, keeps the gapers at bay.


 
I heard a rumor saying they were thinking about making snow on Lower East Fall + Canyon runout and running the canyon quad too......


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

SpinmasterK said:


> Straight talk! If you have specific questions, ask! Feel free to email me thorrocks@Killington.com or call me on my cell 802-770-8985.


 
:dunce:


----------



## jerryg (Oct 15, 2009)

Bostonian said:


> So the question should be do I go to SR or Mt Snow to get some early turns in, since K has seemed to have dropped the ball?



May depend on whether Snow is running a lift. They did this last year, but there wasn't a lift running.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 15, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> I heard a rumor saying they were thinking about making snow on Lower East Fall + Canyon runout and running the canyon quad too......



Takes a heck of a lot more production to cover the pitch of East Fall(and have it stay covered for more than just the first couple of hours of traffic) than the longer, flatter route through Snowdon.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 15, 2009)

With temps in the 50's next week and the ground not frozen making snow now would be just throwing their money away plus SR, which obviously doesn't mind spending the money, has already won the marketing contest for opening early. 

IMHO SR is motivated by their "someday bigger" stigma as we all know their real vert is around 1700. Kmart has a huge image problem to repair so apparently they chose to save the money rather than work on that at this time. They have all ski season to do that. I can't argue with that logic but you guys can. :lol:


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Takes a heck of a lot more production to cover the pitch of East Fall(and have it stay covered for more than just the first couple of hours of traffic) than the longer, flatter route through Snowdon.


 
I can't recall the difference, but I think last time we talked about this, Lower East Fall was slightly easier (due to the elevation and snowgun density).

But I'm just repeating what I heard......


----------



## skiadikt (Oct 15, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> I can't recall the difference, but I think last time we talked about this, Lower East Fall was slightly easier (due to the elevation and snowgun density).
> 
> But I'm just repeating what I heard......



the problem is spillway through the runout and yeah with all that traffic a steep trail like east fall would need a ton of snowmaking. it was so simple when there was just upper cascade but them's the old daze ...


----------



## WWF-VT (Oct 15, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> With temps in the 50's next week and the ground not frozen making snow now would be just throwing their money away plus SR, which obviously doesn't mind spending the money, has already won the marketing contest for opening early.
> 
> IMHO SR is motivated by their "someday bigger" stigma as we all know their real vert is around 1700. Kmart has a huge image problem to repair so apparently they chose to save the money rather than work on that at this time. They have all ski season to do that. I can't argue with that logic but you guys can. :lol:



Thanks for one of the more intelligent posts in this thread


----------



## Greg (Oct 15, 2009)

skiadikt said:


> and yeah with all that traffic a steep trail like east fall would need a ton of snowmaking.



East Fall is no steeper and actually shorter than Highline (which is also a lower altitude) and they got Highline open with a huge base early last year.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> East Fall is no steeper and actually shorter than Highline (which is also a lower altitude) and they got Highline open with a huge base early last year.



Highline came online early in the mix last year, but not on opening day.  Pretty much any ski area in the East (or West for that matter) looking to open early/quickly will always roll out flatter terrain 1st, since 6 to 8" of thick machine made snow base holds up much better to traffic on low angle terrain that steeper terrain - you'd probably need close to twice, if not 3 times the depth of that early season snow to keep a steeper run open as on a flatter run.  Quicker bump building - no doubt - lots of muddy, rocky troughs in those bumps quickly - a definate!


----------



## Greg (Oct 15, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Highline came online early in the mix last year, but not on opening day.  Pretty much any ski area in the East (or West for that matter) looking to open early/quickly will always roll out flatter terrain 1st, since 6 to 8" of thick machine made snow base holds up much better to traffic on low angle terrain that steeper terrain - you'd probably need close to twice, if not 3 times the depth of that early season snow to keep a steeper run open as on a flatter run.  Quicker bump building - no doubt - lots of muddy, rocky troughs in those bumps quickly - a definate!



No, not opening day, but my point is that they were able to make enough snow on it early. Of course that mid-November window was colder last year. If they were going to forgo blowing over to Snowdon, and hit the run-out and East Fall instead, they could pull it off.

I want to hit up Killington early as much as anybody, but I might actually opt to wait until the Snowdon quad is running and Highline is up, provided they do the same roll-out as last year. Skiing groomed out Glades is only entertaining for so long unless it bumps up and that slog out on GN really kinda sucks.

Meh. Who am I kidding? I'll probably go anyway with or without the quad or Highline... :lol:


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> No, not opening day, but my point is that they were able to make enough snow on it early. Of course that mid-November window was colder last year. If they were going to forgo blowing over to Snowdon, and hit the run-out and East Fall instead, they could pull it off.
> 
> I want to hit up Killington early as much as anybody, but I might actually opt to wait until the Snowdon quad is running and Highline is up, provided they do the same roll-out as last year. Skiing groomed out Glades is only entertaining for so long unless it bumps up and that slog out on GN really kinda sucks.
> 
> Meh. Who am I kidding? I'll probably go anyway with or without the quad or Highline... :lol:


 
*The ultimate irony would be if this was their last window of cold, releatively dry weather before December..............*:dunce:


----------



## Greg (Oct 15, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> *The ultimate irony would be if this was their last window of cold, releatively dry weather before December..............*:dunce:



It almost seems like you're wishing for it. What's wrong with you?

Personally, I think we're setting up for an epic winter.


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> It almost seems like you're wishing for it. What's wrong with you?
> 
> Personally, I think we're setting up for an epic winter.



Of course he's wishing for it to happen one of these years.  Such an event would perhaps push Killington to do the upper Downdraft lift he wants such that downloading on the K1 is a possibility.


----------



## RENO (Oct 15, 2009)

millerm277 said:


> Nothing really. Bragging rights and PR. First to T2B is a bit more interesting.....but really, I care much more about who opens enough terrain for me to actually consider the drive ski there. (Something in the neighborhood of more than 2 runs. Or, at Killington: Glades area, and all of the snowmaking terrain on Snowdon.


I agree. That's what I'm waiting for. I'm jonesing too to get out there, but I care more about how much they have available when they open then being 1st. We'll see how the Beast does on the backend with April-May. That's wayyyyyyyy more important to me than October...


----------



## andrec10 (Oct 15, 2009)

:uzi:





Highway Star said:


> *The ultimate irony would be if this was their last window of cold, releatively dry weather before December..............*:dunce:



Wow, now thats just asking for a FLAMING!!!


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> It almost seems like you're wishing for it. What's wrong with you?
> 
> Personally, I think we're setting up for an epic winter.


 
I take it you don't remember 2005?  They got 2 fairly major storms in late October and were able to open, but closed down after, ALL the snow melted, and they didn't reopen unil Nov. 17th.  It barely snowed all year after that, BTW.

I take it you don't remember 2006?  They got 1-2ft of snow in late october (I skied 2 ft at the top of Stowe), they kept holding out for "that next good snowmaking window", and then didn't open until THANKSGIVING DAY.

I take it you don't remember 2007?  They opened a week later than when they could have, due to not being prepared.

I take it you don't remember 2008?  They opened for less than a week, then closed for the next 2 weeks.

*Seriously, there's a reasonable probablity this was the only GOOD snowmaking window they will get for the next 3-4 weeks.*


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Of course he's wishing for it to happen one of these years. Such an event would perhaps push Killington to do the upper Downdraft lift he wants such that downloading on the K1 is a possibility.


 
You are correct.  It would teach the beast of the east a lesson.  Perhaps they learned from this recent debacle.......


----------



## Greg (Oct 15, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> I take it you don't remember 2005?  They got 2 fairly major storms in late October and were able to open, but closed down after, ALL the snow melted, and they didn't reopen unil Nov. 17th.  It barely snowed all year after that, BTW.
> 
> I take it you don't remember 2006?  They got 1-2ft of snow in late october (I skied 2 ft at the top of Stowe), they kept holding out for "that next good snowmaking window", and then didn't open until THANKSGIVING DAY.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the history lesson.


----------



## o3jeff (Oct 15, 2009)

Does anyone know what time they are opening Saturday?


----------



## 2knees (Oct 15, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Does anyone know what time they are opening Saturday?



I just cut and pasted this from an email someone at my company sent me.  She has a house at killington.  Anyone with more knowledge want to comment?



From the Killington lodge bar manager's website:


Mountain has told us to have the bar ready for a weekend opening!


----------



## o3jeff (Oct 15, 2009)

2knees said:


> I just cut and pasted this from an email someone at my company sent me.  She has a house at killington.  Anyone with more knowledge want to comment?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool, what time does she want us up tomorrow night.


----------



## skibumME2009 (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> It almost seems like you're wishing for it. What's wrong with you?
> 
> Personally, I think we're setting up for an epic winter.



Greg

Thats NOT going to happen, not in the northeast at least

http://www.accuweather.com/video-on-demand.asp?video=44795589001&title=Winter Forecast


----------



## Greg (Oct 15, 2009)

skibumME2009 said:


> Greg
> 
> Thats NOT going to happen, not in the northeast at least
> 
> http://www.accuweather.com/video-on-demand.asp?video=44795589001&title=Winter Forecast



:lol: I say it's going to be an epic winter *every *year...

And a long range Accuweather forecast is not something to hang your hat on. But I hope they're right.


----------



## bvibert (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> :lol: I say it's going to be an epic winter *every *year...



Better to stay positive about it, instead of sucking all the fun out of early season stoke!


----------



## Puck it (Oct 15, 2009)

Report this morning, stated el niño is weaking and the east will suffer the most effect from this.  This means snow and cold.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 15, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Report this morning, stated el niño is weaking and the east will suffer the most effect from this.  This means snow and cold.



Damn!  I hate when that happens!


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 15, 2009)

Jeff - your too funny! 


> From Puck: - Report this morning, stated el niño is weaking and the east will suffer the most effect from this. This means snow and cold.


I thought the northeast was going to get big snow this winter cause of a strong el nino. I wish all you weather forcasters would get your stories straight. :lol:

If you all truly want the answers to your burning can't eat can't sleep kmart opening questions I challenge all of you to call Spin on his cell phone. The one he posted in this thread.


----------



## powhunter (Oct 15, 2009)

will there be seeded moguls on vertigo saturday???


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

ski_resort_observer said:


> If you all truly want the answers to your burning can't eat can't sleep kmart opening questions I challenge all of you to call Spin on his cell phone. The one he posted in this thread.


 
Already tried several times - got a busy signal.


----------



## Greg (Oct 15, 2009)

powhunter said:


> will there be seeded moguls on vertigo saturday???



I heard by Sunday, along with snow making to start on the Fiddle.


----------



## WJenness (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> I heard by Sunday, along with snow making to start on the Fiddle.



Certainly would be beast-ly...

-w


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 15, 2009)

Greg said:


> I heard by Sunday, along with snow making to start on the Fiddle.


 
WoooT!


----------



## tcharron (Oct 15, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> WoooT!



We're not laughing WITH you.....


----------



## Greg (Oct 16, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I'm trying to decide who has less credibility?   Highway Star or Tom Horrocks?
> 
> I think it's pathetic that Killington management refuses to talk straight.  This Horrocks marketing blitz is yet another example of their steady stream of half-truths.



I came across this article today:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20091013/NEWS/910139994

Check out the video on the right side and listen very closely to what Tom has to say in it, particularly the last 20 seconds or so. This was Tuesday morning mind you. Tom has been pretty consistent all along. I think all the rumor mongering and speculation is what set you all up for disappointment.


----------



## St. Bear (Oct 16, 2009)

Greg said:


> I came across this article today:
> 
> http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20091013/NEWS/910139994
> 
> Check out the video on the right side and listen very closely to what Tom has to say in it, particularly the last 20 seconds or so. This was Tuesday morning mind you. Tom has been pretty consistent all along. *I think all the rumor mongering and speculation is what set you all up for disappointment*.



I think people set themselves up for disappointment.  There's such a large population of Killington skiers on this site, that any hint of good news (real or imagined) is constantly talked about in 5 simultaneous threads and blown out of proportion with gifs and smiley faces and bold font.  It gets to the point that anytime real life steps in and things don't turn out as you hoped, people get pissed off.  Well, they shouldn't have worked themselves into a frenzy in the first place.


----------



## tcharron (Oct 16, 2009)

Greg said:


> I came across this article today:
> 
> http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20091013/NEWS/910139994
> 
> Check out the video on the right side and listen very closely to what Tom has to say in it, particularly the last 20 seconds or so. This was Tuesday morning mind you. Tom has been pretty consistent all along. I think all the rumor mongering and speculation is what set you all up for disappointment.



Then, why mention it at all?  I don't see any press announcements saying the Killington is stocking up the freezers with Hamburgers, or making sure the kegs are all set.


----------



## Greg (Oct 16, 2009)

tcharron said:


> Then, why mention it at all?  I don't see any press announcements saying the Killington is stocking up the freezers with Hamburgers, or making sure the kegs are all set.



Hardly a fair analogy. There's obvious marketing value in it, and like I said before, the timing was perfect with the K50 and early bird pass promotions ending this week. No brainer to announce the snow making. They do it every year, as do many other resorts. And while I'm sure they would have liked to open, the fact is they never indicated they would and then pulled back. People just read too much into it and came to their own conclusions.


----------



## tcharron (Oct 16, 2009)

Greg said:


> Hardly a fair analogy. There's obvious marketing value in it, and like I said before, the timing was perfect with the K50 and early bird pass promotions ending this week. No brainer to announce the snow making. They do it every year, as do many other resorts. And while I'm sure they would have liked to open, the fact is they never indicated they would and then pulled back. People just read too much into it and came to their own conclusions.



I guess it comes down to what 'To be open soon' really means.  In this case, Tom really made the inference in posts here that they where ready to go take Sunday River on.

But here's the crux of the issue.  At least a month ago, the intent was to open for early November, with snow making to start targeting October 26th.  Well, it started two weeks earlier.  But it appears that the opening which was going to be after a few days of snowmaking is still where it was.  So, one of two things, really.

First, it means this years opening was going to be lackluster, if they're using the argument that 'Must..  Build..  Base.." then the initial plan was to NOT build base.  But, now that they have time, they can't open with the same conditions as they originally intended?

I mean, K can't have it both ways.  Either they poorly planned this years opening, or they could very easily be open right now with the quality that they had originally planned.


----------



## Greg (Oct 16, 2009)

tcharron said:


> I guess it comes down to what 'To be open soon' really means.  In this case, Tom really made the inference in posts here that they where ready to go take Sunday River on.
> 
> But here's the crux of the issue.  At least a month ago, the intent was to open for early November, with snow making to start targeting October 26th.  Well, it started two weeks earlier.  But it appears that the opening which was going to be after a few days of snowmaking is still where it was.  So, one of two things, really.
> 
> ...



I think at this early part of the season it makes sense to under-promise/over-deliver. Now many will argue they are over-promising, but that quite frankly is a matter of perception and opinion. I don't see it that way. I would guess that if they get another window say late next week, and they can make enough snow at the lower elevation, then we will see an opening prior to November 1. Still too far out to tell.

But just because they got decent air temperature to make snow 2 weeks ahead of schedule doesn't mean all conditions were optimal. As many have said humidity has been high, ground is still somewhat warm and one item that Tom mentioned a few weeks back, is that the water is still warmer than is optimal. These issues are less of a concern at the higher elevations, but are at lower apparently.

It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 16, 2009)

Greg said:


> It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...


 
Obviously, October skiing isn't that big of a deal, so why would they need to bother with a new upper mountain lift?

:flame:


----------



## Greg (Oct 16, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> Obviously, October skiing isn't that big of a deal, so why would they need to bother with a new upper mountain lift?
> 
> :flame:



I understand there are other items higher on the priority list.


----------



## tcharron (Oct 16, 2009)

Greg said:


> I think at this early part of the season it makes sense to under-promise/over-deliver. Now many will argue they are over-promising, but that quite frankly is a matter of perception and opinion. I don't see it that way. I would guess that if they get another window say late next week, and they can make enough snow at the lower elevation, then we will see an opening prior to November 1. Still too far out to tell.
> 
> But just because they got decent air temperature to make snow 2 weeks ahead of schedule doesn't mean all conditions were optimal. As many have said humidity has been high, ground is still somewhat warm and one item that Tom mentioned a few weeks back, is that the water is still warmer than is optimal. These issues are less of a concern at the higher elevations, but are at lower apparently.
> 
> It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...



Totally agree on what their reasons could be for NOT opening.  But since Tom has a habit of hyping up things like there, and then providing little or no feedback BACK to their users when they appear disappointed.  Well, no wonder.

It's be REALLY easy to post a simple,

'Guys, I'm really sorry if you misunderstood what my intent was.  We're really wanting to pile up reserves, but becouse of this, that, etc, we want to target an opening date.  And here's why.'

This year it was really looking like maybe they'd stop treating people as numbers, but as skiers.  I was even considering going back on up this year.  *shrug*


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 16, 2009)

Greg said:


> I understand there are other items higher on the priority list.


 
I'm being sarcastic.

Again, I've done out the math here before. 

It currently costs them roughly $200K++ in snowmaking and labor to get open for the season. 

A 1700ft, fixed grip quad, with limited chair count, new, even on the mountainside there, should be around $1m. To relocate an existing lift, MUCH less. Surface lift, even less. 

What's the ROI? You figure it out.

But it's one of the most important and badly needed things they could be doing.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 17, 2009)

tcharron said:


> Totally agree on what their reasons could be for NOT opening.  But since Tom has a habit of hyping up things like there, and then providing little or no feedback BACK to their users when they appear disappointed.  Well, no wonder.
> 
> It's be REALLY easy to post a simple,
> 
> ...



In retrospect, it probably would have been a better thing to hold back the announcement of the return of the Beast of the East, until the Beast was ready to "roar" in the form of lift served skiing + riding.  I do completely understand that the timing of the announcement just before the cheaper pass//k50 ticket cut off day probably wasn't a coincidence.


----------



## Geoff (Oct 17, 2009)

Greg said:


> I think at this early part of the season it makes sense to under-promise/over-deliver. Now many will argue they are over-promising, but that quite frankly is a matter of perception and opinion. I don't see it that way. I would guess that if they get another window say late next week, and they can make enough snow at the lower elevation, then we will see an opening prior to November 1. Still too far out to tell.
> 
> But just because they got decent air temperature to make snow 2 weeks ahead of schedule doesn't mean all conditions were optimal. As many have said humidity has been high, ground is still somewhat warm and one item that Tom mentioned a few weeks back, is that the water is still warmer than is optimal. These issues are less of a concern at the higher elevations, but are at lower apparently.
> 
> It ultimately comes back to that the old lift configuration conversation, but we all knew that wasn't changing for this season...



Face it, Greg.   Tom Horrocks used you and your web site to hype his ski resort.   If he's paying you for it, I guess I can understand your position.

Oct 13, 2009, 8:11 AM, Tom Horrocks wrote:
*Snowmaking is underway at Killington for the 2009-10 season! We started around 1 a.m. on Reason and will be moving to Rime and Upper Great Northern later this afternoon/evening as temperatures drop. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/killington

Video coming shortly. *

Oct 13, 2009, 3:08 PM 
*The short-term plan is to stockpile at the peak. We'll have to see if the forecast allows for snowmaking down Lower Bunny in this window. If not, looks like another good window for snowmaking temps begins on the 24th. Right now though, we're taking it day to day. 
BTW, this is not a marketing trick! *

8 minutes later, he puts in this update.   Any rational person would interpret this that the forecast was sufficient to blow snow on lower Bunny.

Oct 13, 2009, 3:16 PM 
*Forecast looks real nice! 
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick...0&unit=0&lg=en* 

Oct 14, 2009, 5:58 PM 
*We want to get going as soon as we can, but this weekend doesn't look good for making snow down to the bottom of K-1. Temps too warm. *


----------



## Greg (Oct 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Face it, Greg.   Tom Horrocks used you and your web site to hype his ski resort.   If he's paying you for it, I guess I can understand your position.



Used? :lol: Ha! I feel so dirty...

For the record, Tom doesn't pay to post here. We encourage participation by reps like Tom and others, and it's not a pay to post arrangement. Nice try though.

Killington does indeed pay to advertise on the forums and on the rest of the site. That's not Tom's department though. In fact, Killington outsources their marketing to a media buyer based in Denver.



Geoff said:


> Oct 13, 2009, 8:11 AM, Tom Horrocks wrote:
> *Snowmaking is underway at Killington for the 2009-10 season! We started around 1 a.m. on Reason and will be moving to Rime and Upper Great Northern later this afternoon/evening as temperatures drop.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/killington
> ...



Thanks for pulling up Tom's post which illustrates my point quite nicely. There are not any half-truths there at all and overall very consistent based on the info available at the time. You suggesting that Tom posting a forecast means he was insisting lower mountain snow making would start is a major stretch. Is it possible that Tom was just excited about the possibility? After all, Tom's a skier too, and a helluva good one.

Now it's time for you to "face it". Many of you read into something that wasn't there.


----------



## Puck it (Oct 18, 2009)

I would say cut the negativity about SpinmasterK.  The reps might stop posting here if all we have is negativity for them.  SpinmasterK helped me out big time with my Thanksgiving and got me a great deal at the Grand.  They are just trying to do their job.


----------



## 2knees (Oct 18, 2009)

Puck it said:


> I would say cut the negativity about SpinmasterK.  The reps might stop posting here if all we have is negativity for them.  SpinmasterK helped me out big time with my Thanksgiving and got me a great deal at the Grand.  They are just trying to do their job.





you run over to andy's board whining about the moderation here now you want people to "tone it down" over here?

I HATE hypocrisy.


----------



## Puck it (Oct 18, 2009)

2knees said:


> you run over to andy's board whining about the moderation here now you want people to "tone it down" over here?
> 
> I HATE hypocrisy.



WTF.  There is no hypocrisy here. It was an observation. We would someone want to keep contributing if all they get is negativity. 
No mention was made of moderation.  He was very helpful to me and getting unjustly slammed.


----------



## andyzee (Oct 19, 2009)

2knees said:


> you run over to andy's board whining about the moderation here now you want people to "tone it down" over here?
> 
> I HATE hypocrisy.



Answer me this, why do you have a problem with people having an opinion. Did he say anything about moderating? There is a difference you know. (Damn talk about having your panties tied in a knot.)


----------



## Geoff (Nov 2, 2009)

Bump

My father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate says Highway Star knows if Killington is going to be open this weekend.


----------



## Vortex (Nov 2, 2009)

I'll be out skiing this weekend, no rumor.;-)  The race on now to see who will be open 7 days a week,


----------



## riverc0il (Nov 2, 2009)

Bob R said:


> I'll be out skiing this weekend, no rumor.;-)  The race on now to see who will be open 7 days a week,


When you say the race is on, you mean to say that the race is on to see how many other resorts in addition to Sunday River get open next week for full operation?  The best K can do right now is a distant second. I can not see how SR would not open for the season next week, they can definitely get top to bottom back for the weekend as snow making temps return this week.


----------



## Vortex (Nov 3, 2009)

K posted on its web site that others opened only with limited or upper mountain  terrain. That was the day SR opened top to bottom.;-) To save marketing face they will need to open, stay open and bring back some of the spirit of years earlier and close late in the season. 

Early season I have no issue with a mid week shut down.  I have skied 6 days.  Nice compomise to not being open at all.  I will be curious to see who opens for the Season 7 days a week, but it has little effect on me.  I take opening day off or as close to it as I can and then I save my vacation days to later in the Season.

 The beast statement seems lame when they are talking about other resorts while they were closed.  

Ya I am a homer, but I was given the option to ski, no marketing speak.

RiverCoil,   your trip report about how the Boston market may be effected by all of this was very well explained.  Actions and not words.


----------



## Geoff (Nov 4, 2009)

bump


----------



## Highway Star (Apr 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Bump.


 
.


----------

