# 2007-08 "Resident" Boot Fitter Thread



## Greg (Aug 13, 2007)

Jeff Bokum, a Master Bootfitter and board-certified Pedorthist, has again agreed to participate here and answer any questions in regards to boots and boot fitting this season. He will be posting under the username of *Skiiboot*. In addition to his Pedorthist credentials, Jeff is a Masterfit Instructor and the owner of *Profile Orthotic Center* at S&W Sports in Concord, New Hampshire. He is also a professional firefighter with the Portsmouth New Hampshire Fire Department with a Level III state certification in firefighting, EMT intermediate certification and Level II Rescue Systems. He has been a ski boot tester with Ski Press magazine since 2002. Please join me in thanking Jeff for continuing to be a valuable source of boot fitting information for the AZ community. This is his third season fielding these types of questions! Feel free to ask boot fitting related questions in this thread.


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## skibum1321 (Aug 27, 2007)

*Custom Footbeds*

I just bought a new pair of Head S13s and they seem to fit great (before actually skiing a day on them anyway). Approximately how much it would cost to go to a boot fitter and get custom footbeds and a fit analysis? In my old X-Waves I had the Superfeet ones that go for ~$30 but I was thinking of splurging and getting custom ones for the new boots.


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 27, 2007)

Each fitter is different but I think I paid around $150 a few years ago for mine.


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## Skiiboot (Aug 27, 2007)

Skibum,   You can pay between 150-200$  Remember this is not the place you what to scrimp on,  Do your research, and there are good fitters out there, look for ones that know the body and understand the biomachanics.  Fitters that have gone to school are taking there craft more serious and will do a better job,  You may pay more but you will be much happier with the end result.

Thank you

Jeff


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## hammer (Sep 11, 2007)

I just purchased a pair of Salomon 1080 Foil Boots for my son, size 25.5...price was right so I couldn't resist.  His street size is an 8 - 8.5 at this point, but the shell fit was OK (1.5 finger width) and I think his feet have a little more growing to do.

The only thing about the boots is that they seem to be pretty roomy in the forefoot...the buckle over the instep can be already buckled beyond the first setting.

Would footbeds help to close this space in at all?


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## Skiiboot (Sep 12, 2007)

Hammer,

Footbeds always help, but the footbeds I used will not take up much space.  Will have to take up space in other ways.

Jeff


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## Greg (Sep 12, 2007)

hammer said:


> the buckle over the instep can be already buckled beyond the first setting.



Interesting concern. My feet are so flat, narrow and low volume (ask Jeff - he's had the pleasure of seeing these works of art! :blink: ) that I always have to crank down buckles to almost the second to last notch. My lower calves are thin too so I have even gone to the extent of moving the top buckle to let me get it even more snug. This is after a boot fitting from Jeff once the liners packed out a bit.

My question to Jeff is, is the above something to be concerned with?


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## trtaylor (Sep 14, 2007)

Jeff,

Can you speak a little bit about the abducted stance boots (Nordica Aggressor's & Fischer SOMA's)?


Who are they for?
Who are they not for?
Are they necessary?
Other comments?

Thanks.

Tim


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## Skiiboot (Sep 16, 2007)

Tim,

Big differance between Nordica and Fisher boots and the abducted stance.  Fisher the abduction starts in the heel, and Fisher starts in the midfoot.  That alone makes a big difference.  The function of the abduction is to apply pressure to the inside of the boot/edge quicker.  One problem is that not everybody is abducted and if you place your feet where they aren't happy it can cause problems.  One problem that can happen is stress on the MCL.  The ideal person for the boot is someone that is abducted and slighty varis forefoot.  I think they have there place.  I also an a big fan on Nordica and because the boot abduction is from midfoot forward the boots don't hurt me.  Fisher is a fantastic boot that is getting better every year,  I also like the way they ski, but after a couple of runs the inside of my knees get sore.  

Thanks

Jeff


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## NHpowderhound (Oct 20, 2007)

*Scarpa Tornado Pros*

Jeff, I am a resort/backcountry guy. I primarily ski powder or natural conditions and tour in the White Mountains. 
I stopped by my local ski shop the other day and fell in love with the Scarpa Tornado Pros. I tried them on and was blown away with thier weight. They were like feathers. I was also blown away by the $699 price tag. 
Do you have any feedback on these slippers?

((*
*))NHPH


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## Skiiboot (Oct 20, 2007)

NHPH

I got to ski them and liked them.  The only thing you need to careful about is getting the correct size boot.  I got to ski them for 4 runs and they started to get big.  Also if you know your size look around you may be able find a better price.

Thanks 

Jeff


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## NHpowderhound (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks for the prompt reply Jeff!
By "felt big" do you mean they felt sloppy on your foot?
I have been pricing these babys through different avenues already and have found quite a difference in price. I am aware there is a Tornados and Tornado Pro. I have been looking at the T Pros. If I were to purchase these online or elsewhere could YOU fit me at your shop in Concord?

((*
*))NHPH


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## Skiiboot (Oct 25, 2007)

NHPH

They got bigger after a couple of runs, so if they feel a bit tight when you tried them on thats good.  I have no problem where you get the boots,  look for the best price.


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## tcharron (Nov 5, 2007)

This will sound silly, but.

Last year I bought a pair of Dalbello ski boot, I can't recall the exact model offhand, but it was an offyear model with adjustable settings for carving.  When I first tried on the boot, I loved it.  I love the adjustments I can make in how much movement I have forward and back in my ankles, but there's one issue.  While they feel comfortable, while I'm skiing, they hurt my toes.  They're not squished or anything, but it's almost like when actually going skiing on them, that the TOP of my toes is being pinched.  I haven't tried to take the liner out or anything yet, but, would it help?  Did I simply buy something that just didn't fit me right?


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## hammer (Nov 5, 2007)

tcharron said:


> This will sound silly, but.
> 
> Last year I bought a pair of Dalbello ski boot, I can't recall the exact model offhand, but it was an offyear model with adjustable settings for carving.  When I first tried on the boot, I loved it.  I love the adjustments I can make in how much movement I have forward and back in my ankles, but there's one issue.  While they feel comfortable, while I'm skiing, they hurt my toes.  They're not squished or anything, but it's almost like when actually going skiing on them, that the TOP of my toes is being pinched.  I haven't tried to take the liner out or anything yet, but, would it help?  Did I simply buy something that just didn't fit me right?


Did you have a shell fit done when you tried the boots out?  Also, how far do you have to crank down the buckles?

Just thinking of a few fit-related questions, but I defer to Jeff's expertise...if you live near Concord, maybe a visit to Jeff would be in order.


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## tcharron (Nov 5, 2007)

hammer said:


> Did you have a shell fit done when you tried the boots out?  Also, how far do you have to crank down the buckles?
> 
> Just thinking of a few fit-related questions, but I defer to Jeff's expertise...if you live near Concord, maybe a visit to Jeff would be in order.



No, no fitting done at all.  They where on sale, I liked them, and they walked comfy.

After your question, I just went ahead and actually tried them on, and took the liner out of the boot itself.  Now taking into consideration that the buckles themselves are adjustable, The buckles are in the following order, from toe up.

Toe: First slot
Second: Third slot (in the middle)
Third: Second or third slot (roughly in the middle)
Last (highest): First slot

What I did notice was the liner itself has a big '+' stich in the front, over the toes.  After putting the liner itself on my foot, without the rest of the boot, I noticed that it seemed to be 'squeezing' the toes together a little bit.  When I wiggle the toes outside of the boot, I can feel the stiching in the '+' rubbing against my big toe, ironically enough, where it tends to hurt/getsore/cold while I've ben skiing for a few hours.


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## Skiiboot (Nov 6, 2007)

tcharron,

Sometimes the funniest things can cause the biggest problems.  The stiching is one,  this is a common problem when the toe box is a little tight,  some boots are better then others.  

Thanks

Jeff


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## tcharron (Nov 6, 2007)

Skiiboot said:


> tcharron,
> 
> Sometimes the funniest things can cause the biggest problems.  The stiching is one,  this is a common problem when the toe box is a little tight,  some boots are better then others.
> 
> ...



I believe this to be the issue, it is a little tight, after taking into consideration comments, and actually looking.

How much are custom liners for boots typically?  While in the future I think I'll choose a boot with a bit more toe room, I do really like the boot itself.


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## Skiiboot (Nov 7, 2007)

Make more toe room, it's a common fix.  If you are looking at new liners it depends on what you what for liners, the price can range from 150-400$

Jeff


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## skidbump (Nov 22, 2007)

Jeff,
I skied 100 + days on my nodica speed machines "14" and end of last season/ begining this season my right heel falls asleep after about 30 min.I losened 2 middle buckles and flex foot and seems ok but i cant find a pressure point "i think its along my achilles tendon towards top of heel".When i loosen boots i cant find a happy place its iether heel asleep or heel lifts and rubs..I feel like the rubbing on back of heel is causing a  large round callus or bone spur on back of heel.  We ground out where callus/spur is and also  worked on heel pocket of boot"sanded down along where i thought tendon was feeling pressure.

Thanks
PAT


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## Skiiboot (Nov 22, 2007)

Pat,

It could be one of may or even a couple of things.  The first thing I would look at is the footbed, Is it posted firm enough.  You must stop your foot from moving first.  The blood flow is being shut down for a couple reasons,  the padding has moved (very unlikely)  or the liner is packed out.  The boot is to big, and the c-pads that are in the liner don't line up to tour ankle. Or you could have a pressure that is tough to find.

Jeff


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## ironwalker (Jan 5, 2008)

atomic 8.2 new footbeds,stance aligment.fore aft balancing.great fit and performane BUT fridged toes. will boot heaters affect work i've done   thanx


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## Skiiboot (Jan 6, 2008)

Heaters will help put heat in the toebox,  be careful that there are no blood vessels restricted.

Thanks

Jeff


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## tcharron (Jan 6, 2008)

ironwalker said:


> atomic 8.2 new footbeds,stance aligment.fore aft balancing.great fit and performane BUT fridged toes. will boot heaters affect work i've done   thanx



Do any parts of your foot ever get 'tingly'?


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## Skiiboot (Jan 7, 2008)

your foot should not be tingling, that is a blood flow problem and or nerve problem

Jeff


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## tcharron (Jan 7, 2008)

Skiiboot said:


> your foot should not be tingling, that is a blood flow problem and or nerve problem
> 
> Jeff



  That's why I asked if he was having them or not.


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## Skiiboot (Jan 7, 2008)

thanks for answering the question for me


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## ironwalker (Jan 8, 2008)

at times feels like my socks or something bunched under toes on left foot. i know that's not the case checked it out. but both feet are cold. i know that the sock feeling ain't right.footbeds are alines. shop talked me into trying em. any opinions on em. said they'll take em back if not satisfied.  thanx in advance


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## WJenness (Jan 8, 2008)

I have A-Lines too. I've on occasion had the 'bunched sock' feeling, but I think it was actually the sock being bunched.

I live the A-Lines. I have flat feet, and if I don't wear the A-Lines in my boots, about ten minutes into wearing them, the inside of my ankle starts to hurt pretty badly. With the A-Lines, I go all day pain free.

-w


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## Skiiboot (Jan 8, 2008)

If you would like to talk about alines give me a call,  I type so slow that I would type for 2 days to answer the question properly.  But with alines it is possible that the sock gets bunched because of the friction that the plastic makes, or it could be the semi met pad that is built into the footbed.

Thanks

Jeff


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## LineSki15 (Jan 9, 2008)

Jeff, my calf muscles are sore after skiing in my new Salomon impact 10boots. I'm pretty sure it's the boot because my calves never got this sore with my old boots.  these boots fit well because I have experienced very little pain in my foot, but they are a LOT stiffer than my old boots, so I"m thinking my incorrect skiing style (leaning back too much - yeah I"m working on it)  has caused this sore calf problem because the boots are so stiff and don't allow my ankle to move too much at all, so the stress is put on my calves when I lean back.  
does that sound correct to you or do I need to do something about my boot fit?


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## Skiiboot (Jan 10, 2008)

lineski

Yes the balance you are talking about can be the problem,  Tha ankle joint could also be a problem,  the boot being stiffer, the ankle dosen't flex as much,  makes calf, acillies tighter.  The culf could be a little higher and adding just a bit of pressure.   There could be a bunch of things to get a calf pressure.

Thanks

Jeff


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## LineSki15 (Jan 10, 2008)

thanks for the reply!  so I guess I should just conentrate on skiing properly right?  The boots must have higher calfs than my old ones because they seem to sit me a little more forward, which is good, now I just have to stop fighting them and ski the right way!


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## wa-loaf (Jan 10, 2008)

LineSki15 said:


> thanks for the reply!  so I guess I should just conentrate on skiing properly right?  The boots must have higher calfs than my old ones because they seem to sit me a little more forward, which is good, now I just have to stop fighting them and ski the right way!



You should go see a boot fitter to have your balance checked/adjusted. Too much forward lean can actually put you in the back seat.


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## LineSki15 (Jan 10, 2008)

WHAT????  oh man, this new boot thing is more complicated than I thought!


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## billski (Jan 12, 2008)

Jeff, 
Thanks for doing this.
Why do I have no problem with ski boots but I can't for the life of me, tolerate ice skates or rollerblades.  My arch (one foot or the other or both) cramps up big time after 5 minutes.  I've tried arch support (my wife says I'm flat-footed, but I've never been professionally diagnosed)  but they just make matters worse.  These are sports I'd love to do, they come easy for me, I just cant stand up!


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## Skiiboot (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for the question,  There could be a couple of things going on with you feet, but without seeing you my first thought would be that  your foot is ridged( doesn't flex and move well), and any pressure under the arch will cause some pain and discomfort. People that have flexable feet, (not hypermobile) are lucky in the fact that in many, not all occasions can wear just about anything with very few problems.  There are ways of helping the problem.  If you want more infomation please feel free to call.

Thanks

Jeff


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## aoneil (Feb 10, 2008)

*Oh, boot expert..*

...I'm a ski boarder (Head Shape 94 cm skis) and I bought a pair of Salomon breeze boots (I'm a lady, after all) from a local sports store after I ordered my skis online (it's hard to find ski boards in a ski shop). 

    With a season pass from Wachusett, I've been well over ten times and my boots work fairly well.  When it's really icy and hard (luckily not much this year), I get screaming fatigue on either side of my knees because I'm riding my edges on my wider skis that I don't get when conditions are nice (ie: more powder/granular powder).  The rest of the time I'm trying not to lean forward too much (the ski boots seem to make me lean forward more than I need).  Since my skis have standard ski bindings, I'm considering the purchase of a nice pair of boots that will continue to work well.  Can you suggest a model or line that don't have as much of that forward angle to them?  Also, they set up my boots with the upper two hinges all the way out because my calves are big (they said that's not uncommon) if that affects your recommendation any.   

    I don't mind going to a shop to get good boots now that I know what I'm doing (and how much I love it), but it would be nice if someone who knew could point me toward some models I can look up before I go in there blind.  

    Thanks!


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## Paul (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for participating in this thread, its nice to get feedback from a pro.

Beginning of last season, I bought a pair of Technica Vento 10s.They were the only ones that seemed to have a toe-box wide enough for my duck-feet. I had custom footbeds made and one of them didn't set right. The right one is imprinted too far back. The technician ground it down a bit, it helped, but it still doesn't feel right.I skied in them about 7 times before ending my season with a knee injury. I had my ACL replaced in March, and, as you can imagine, there was a bit of muscle atrophy. 
Long story short (yeah, too late) I plan on setting-up an appointment with you to get the beds done right, and dial the boots in. I've skied in them 9 times this season, so I think they're just about packed-in. My question is, should I do it this season or wait until my right calf muscle is "back to normal"? Its getting there, but it is still a bit skinnier than the left.

Thanks in advance.


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## Skiiboot (Feb 16, 2008)

aoneil,

to pick a boot for you is tough without seeing you,  Very important your knees should not hurt.  I sounds like you have some balance and canting problems.  A good intermediate boot would be a good place to start. Then see a good fitter to fix the other issues.

Thank you


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## Skiiboot (Feb 16, 2008)

Paul ,

For what you are doing the time of the fit doesn't matter, as long as you can get some ski days on them.  I may also be able to help you with the rehab.

Thanks 

Jeff


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## Paul (Feb 16, 2008)

Skiiboot said:


> Paul ,
> 
> For what you are doing the time of the fit doesn't matter, as long as you can get some ski days on them.  I may also be able to help you with the rehab.
> 
> ...



Awesome! Thanks, Jeff. I'll call or PM you when I figure-out what my schedule looks like.


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## I_Bike_Alone (Feb 17, 2008)

*Head w/c fitment*

Jeff,
Here's my story. Street shoe averages 11.5. When measured on several different mondo scales I come in right around 28.5(on my bigger foot too). I've got an opportunity to acquire a pair of new head w/c in a 28.0 for practically nothing! I guess my questions are very general and they are as follows:

1. How far can the toe box in just the big toe area be expanded before it becomes a problem interfering with bindings?
2 It's a 28.5 shell with the 28 liner, so If i remove the liner ideally how much room should there be between my heel and the back of the boot. 
3 Going along with question 2, If my foot physically fits into the 28.5 shell what are the chances a custom liner would make these fit like a glove?

I brought these to the boot guy at Mohawk here in CT and he didn't think it would work, but I was looking for some advice from someone who knows more about blowing out toe boxes etc. as he had no experience.

Thanks for your input, you do an awesome job!
Alex


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## wa-loaf (Feb 17, 2008)

skituxnoob said:


> Jeff,
> Here's my story. Street shoe averages 11.5. When measured on several different mondo scales I come in right around 28.5(on my bigger foot too). I've got an opportunity to acquire a pair of new head w/c in a 28.0 for practically nothing! I guess my questions are very general and they are as follows:
> 
> 1. How far can the toe box in just the big toe area be expanded before it becomes a problem interfering with bindings?
> ...



I'm not Jeff, but a 28.5 and 28.0 shell and liner are exactly the same size. They make up the half size with only the footbed. You should have about a fingers width in a shell fit for a performance fit.


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## Oak22 (Feb 18, 2008)

*Shin Bang!*

Jeff,

I have a pair of Salomon Performa(I think they are the 6's).  They are about 3 years old but(unfortunately) don't have alot of ski days on them.  Part of the problem is that they cause me tremendous pain and I usually opt to ride my snowboard instead of ski:-x

The pain is consistent in both boots and seems to be right around the area of the top buckle/power strap.  I brought them back to the shop where I bought them twice now.  First they simply lowered the forward lean adjustment on the back of the boot.  This didn't work so they enxt tried to add some padding between the liner tongue and the shell as well as tried heat molding the liners"to soften them up" as they said.  I skied Saddleback yesterday(which was awesome, by the way)   and they were the same as always.  I have Superfeet in them inc ase that makes a difference.  The boots have a stiffness adjustment as well, soft or firm flex.  I have been keeping them on soft thinking that might help.

Sorry for the excessively long post!  Any suggestions


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## Skiiboot (Feb 22, 2008)

oak22,

The performa is a beginer boot, and is soft,  so if you have any size you may be to big for the boot.  The other thing could be if you are to far forward it may bother the shin or top of the boot.


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## o3jeff (Feb 25, 2008)

Hi Jeff, I have about 10 days on my new boots and am starting to have the same problem I had with my old boots(they were about 7 years old). It seem that the ball of my fibula were it meets the inside of my anke is rubbing/pressing against my boot and becoming sore after a day of skiing. I have noticed this the past two times out. I personally think it is from me leaning back sometimes when I ski. any recomendations for a quick fix?

Thanks in advance.


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## Skiiboot (Feb 25, 2008)

o3jeff

A good footbed can help, and sometimes a bit of material needs to be removed.

THANKS

JEFF


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## ed-drum (Mar 25, 2008)

I make my own footbeds and have been doing so for years. I know a couple of great bootfitters and their jaws drop open when I tell them how how do it and the cost, about $1.00.  Read about it in a book. Ed.


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## Skiiboot (Mar 26, 2008)

OK  that's good.


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