# the CLITs are so lucky



## jack97 (Jul 9, 2011)

Just thinking about what to do in terms getting a season pass, if so to where.

Giving Wachusetts some thought but after seeing this.... I have to reconsider, I'm still trying to figure out the line







and then this from a few years back....






The CLITs have it made at Sundown....


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## Grassi21 (Jul 9, 2011)

CLITS rule!!!!


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## Trekchick (Jul 9, 2011)

Mmmmm, magic moguls!


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## Black Phantom (Jul 9, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Just thinking about what to do in terms getting a season pass, if so to where.
> 
> Giving Wachusetts some thought but after seeing this.... I have to reconsider, I'm still trying to figure out the line
> 
> ...



Stop the brutal grooming?


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## Watatic Skier (Jul 9, 2011)

During the Alpinezone challenge I have some big questions for Wachusett about there moguls...


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## powhunter (Jul 9, 2011)

Yea its nice to have moguls at your local mountain....Last year though the bumps on gunbarrel were only there for a few weeks..Then the NCP kicked in and destroyed everything....Hopefully this year will be different

Steveo


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## legalskier (Jul 9, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Just thinking about what to do in terms getting a season pass, if so to where.
> 
> Giving Wachusetts some thought but after seeing this.... I have to reconsider, I'm still trying to figure out the line
> 
> ...



Must be nice to have that right in your own back yard.
:beer:


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## jack97 (Jul 9, 2011)

legalskier said:


> Must be nice to have that right in your own back yard.



Wachusett is about 45 mins away.... makes it more heartbreaking because imo, the mogul field blows. The bump formation was making me dylexic...


I have driven 2 hrs just to get a taste of these goods. The groomer at Sundown knows how to seed them.


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## Nick (Jul 9, 2011)

I'll be at wachusett fairly often next year. Cant deny a 20 minute ride from the office.

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## bvibert (Jul 9, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Wachusett is about 45 mins away.... makes it more heartbreaking because imo, the mogul field blows. The bump formation was making me dylexic...
> 
> 
> I have driven 2 hrs just to get a taste of these goods. The groomer at Sundown knows how to seed them.



It's funny you used that picture.  Those were tightest little bumplets ever.  I believe it took some manual labor and skiing in to get them reasonable that year.  But in general; yeah, we're lucky. :beer:


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## Black Phantom (Jul 10, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Wachusett is about 45 mins away.... makes it more heartbreaking because imo, the mogul field blows. The bump formation was making me dylexic...
> 
> 
> I have driven 2 hrs just to get a taste of these goods. The groomer at Sundown knows how to seed them.



Aren't you against grooming?:roll:


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## jack97 (Jul 10, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> Aren't you against grooming?:roll:



 yeah it's a oxymoron..... 

I'm against grooming.... wish lots more places will let the bumps form. But the only way to get early season bumping going on is to seed them. Also, not to sound snobbish but some trails will not form because the bumps get trashed by certain type of skiers and boarders. So, the only way to make sure the lines are preserve is to seed them.

When we got the Jan dump this past season, Nashoba Valley Ski let them form. By late Jan/early Feb they bumped up real nice, then I was going there every week unil they shut down due to the early rain. Here's a clip of the bump trail..... wtf, thats Wayne Wong!


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## Geoff (Jul 10, 2011)

jack97 said:


> yeah it's a oxymoron.....
> 
> I'm against grooming.... wish lots more places will let the bumps form. But the only way to get early season bumping going on is to seed them.



Say what?   Try skiing Rime at Killington in early November.   It's totally bumped up by the afternoon.   The way you get early season bumps going is to not groom the trail.


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## jack97 (Jul 10, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Say what?   Try skiing Rime at Killington in early November.   It's totally bumped up by the afternoon.   The way you get early season bumps going is to not groom the trail.



Been thinking about for a long time..... k-mart is a 3 hr one way trip, kind of rough for me unless I know for sure they have some nice lines. Spring is another story.


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## Geoff (Jul 10, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Been thinking about for a long time..... k-mart is a 3 hr one way trip, kind of rough for me unless I know for sure they have some nice lines.



There are enough bumpers skiing the edge of the trail that lines usually form.   It's not reliable, though.   You can easily encounter churned up death cookies at that time of year so you have to pay attention to weather and snowmaking.


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## jack97 (Jul 10, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Wachusett is about 45 mins away.... makes it more heartbreaking because imo, the mogul field blows. The bump formation was making me dylexic...
> 
> 
> I have driven 2 hrs just to get a taste of these goods. The groomer at Sundown knows how to seed them.





bvibert said:


> It's funny you used that picture.  Those were tightest little bumplets ever.  I believe it took some manual labor and skiing in to get them reasonable that year.  But in general; yeah, we're lucky. :beer:



haha..... Yeah, they were tight, I remember how much trouble I had on them. That pic was the only one I can find without spending to much time searching. But it shows how they form those bumps so that you can make alternating turns to make a line. It took me several seasons of bumping to realize the Wachusett bump formation was meant for another type of bump skiing..... it still blows imo.


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## Nick (Jul 10, 2011)

How do they actually seed the bumps? Does the groomers machine do that? 

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## Black Phantom (Jul 10, 2011)

Nick said:


> How do they actually seed the bumps? Does the groomers machine do that?
> 
> Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk



They plant them in the fall and they grow in the winter.


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## jack97 (Jul 10, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> They plant them in the fall and they grow in the winter.



:grin:


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## jack97 (Jul 10, 2011)

Nick said:


> How do they actually seed the bumps? Does the groomers machine do that?
> 
> Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk



Bobutts shot this....here's how they do them at Sunappee..... the other place that is leased :blink:

Notice how the bump formation will allow turns to be linked into a nice line. Wachusett obviously used a groomer but their formation is quite different.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 10, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Say what?   Try skiing Rime at Killington in early November.   It's totally bumped up by the afternoon.   The way you get early season bumps going is to not groom the trail.



When I skied K early season last year, yes there were bumps on Rime, but minimal decent lines.  More like, 2-4 bumps to get some rhythm, then a luge shot to the next bump 30 feet down hill.  GS push pile bumps for the most part.

In the East, 9 times out of 10, seeding is going to produce better moguls than leaving a trail ungroomed, unless two conditions exists.  

1. A high percentage of good bump skiers on the trail and minimal lower level skiers.  Hate to say it, but snowboarding also can be quite damaging to line formation.

2. A good amount of natural snowfall.   

IMO, the best natural bumps in the East these days exist at Sugarbush (north especially) and MRG.  

People snicker at seeding, but it serves a purpose.  It pretty much guarantees a good product provided a ski area is also committed to top dressing the terrain with snowmaking refreshes.  For this reason, yes, Sundown skiers have a great thing going for them.


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## makimono (Jul 10, 2011)

Wachusset stinks at making moguls...they make oblong mounds with big gaps and weird spacing. The best moguls at wawa are the ones that form late season on smith walton after they stop grooming it for the year. 

It'd be awesome if they could figure it out but I don't think they really want to. I mean even the little bit they do seed (badly) is on a crappy part of 10th with a perennial 20 meter ice flow at the start or a section of hitch that's not steep enough to link short swings.


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## Nick (Jul 10, 2011)

makimono said:


> Wachusset stinks at making moguls...they make oblong mounds with big gaps and weird spacing. The best moguls at wawa are the ones that form late season on smith walton after they stop grooming it for the year.
> 
> It'd be awesome if they could figure it out but I don't think they really want to. I mean even the little bit they do seed (badly) is on a crappy part of 10th with a perennial 20 meter ice flow at the start or a section of hitch that's not steep enough to link short swings.



I was going to say the ones at the end of the season this year seemed pretty decent. 

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## Nick (Jul 10, 2011)

Here's a video I found of Sunapee (sp.?) seeding bumps: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fth44N-3P0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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## Nick (Jul 10, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> They plant them in the fall and they grow in the winter.



Nice, :lol:

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## Nick (Jul 10, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Bobutts shot this....here's how they do them at Sunappee..... the other place that is leased :blink:
> 
> Notice how the bump formation will allow turns to be linked into a nice line. Wachusett obviously used a groomer but their formation is quite different.



Argh thanks, sorry I missed that earlier, just posted the same video... my bad! 

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## mondeo (Jul 10, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> When I skied K early season last year, yes there were bumps on Rime, but minimal decent lines. More like, 2-4 bumps to get some rhythm, then a luge shot to the next bump 30 feet down hill. GS push pile bumps for the most part.
> 
> In the East, 9 times out of 10, seeding is going to produce better moguls than leaving a trail ungroomed, unless two conditions exists.
> 
> ...


Last year, for whatever reason, no real bump lines formed off the NRT. Year before that, it was great. Fully bumped up by noon.

And I'd rather have Wa's bumps for the entire season than the full length Gunbarrel that we had for a week or two this year. The rest of the year was on Nor'Easter, with about 3 bumps at a easy blue pitch.


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## makimono (Jul 10, 2011)

You know what I'd like to see wawa do? 

Leave the groomers off piece of cake. Don't try to seed it, just let us bump it up naturally. They'd have to groom it out once in a while but for the most part just let it get bumped up edge to edge top to bottom. They never run the triple anyways so they don't have to worry about some kids wandering into it by accident and getting in trouble since you need to do a 20' sidestep uphill to get to the run.

It still may not be steep enough I don't know...but a dedicated bump run would make wachusett so much more better.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 10, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Last year, for whatever reason, no real bump lines formed off the NRT. Year before that, it was great. Fully bumped up by noon.
> 
> And I'd rather have Wa's bumps for the entire season than the full length Gunbarrel that we had for a week or two this year. The rest of the year was on Nor'Easter, with about 3 bumps at a easy blue pitch.



what was the issue with the Gunbarrel bumps?   too tight?  

too tight is almost worse than too spread out


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## powhunter (Jul 10, 2011)

Last year they were perfect.

Steveo


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## bvibert (Jul 10, 2011)

jack97 said:


> Bobutts shot this....here's how they do them at Sunappee..... the other place that is leased :blink:
> 
> Notice how the bump formation will allow turns to be linked into a nice line. Wachusett obviously used a groomer but their formation is quite different.



That's not how Sundown does it.  They said they've tried it that way, but preferred their method more.  They start at the top and push the piles up using the plow blade one at a time.  The groomer is facing uphill and works it's way down backwards.  It's a pretty tedious process.  The groomer operator at Sundown is really good, he moves really quickly, but it still takes him a couple of nights to seed Gunny.  He also get's motion sickness regularly while seeding and has to get out to blow chunks in the woods.


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## Watatic Skier (Jul 10, 2011)

makimono said:


> You know what I'd like to see wawa do?
> 
> Leave the groomers off piece of cake. Don't try to seed it, just let us bump it up naturally. They'd have to groom it out once in a while but for the most part just let it get bumped up edge to edge top to bottom. They never run the triple anyways so they don't have to worry about some kids wandering into it by accident and getting in trouble since you need to do a 20' sidestep uphill to get to the run.
> 
> It still may not be steep enough I don't know...but a dedicated bump run would make wachusett so much more better.



I would like them to just bump at the majority of the Pitch on tenth, starting where the lift goes back into the trees, down to the road. It happened a few times this year. The could leave maybe a 20-30 foot wide strip groomed?  I wouldn't care what they did with the rest of the trails if that happened. 

Also, the New High Speed Quad there talking about replacing the extremely slow beginner lift wouldn't probably drag the, err.... less experienced people off the summit, greatly increasing manuvering room and leave more room for moguls  

Edit: heres a picture from one of the times they had 10th bumped up






Notice the Bail-out lane on the left.


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## jack97 (Jul 11, 2011)

Watatic Skier said:


> I would like them to just bump at the majority of the Pitch on tenth, starting where the lift goes back into the trees, down to the road. It happened a few times this year. The could leave maybe a 20-30 foot wide strip groomed?  I wouldn't care what they did with the rest of the trails if that happened.



Smith Walton gets closed to the public for race program Sunday morning and prolly other weeknights. Once those programs finish, they may leave Smith Walton alone to bump up. Haha..... its a treat early season after a December dump and they Smith Walton bump up before the race program. 

If you talking about that long section right under the lift line.... that would be great. But they still need to blow snow just to establish a good base for the bumps, otherwise the troughs will burn through exposing the dirt.  I would be happy with where they have the present bumps but just form them so that you can link turns for a zipperline.

If they can only do something like this, it doesn't have to be that wide....


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## mondeo (Jul 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> what was the issue with the Gunbarrel bumps? too tight?
> 
> too tight is almost worse than too spread out


The problem is they didn't exist. Through January it was maybe 200ft vert of very shallow bumps, then only the top 200 ft or so of Gunbarrel. 6-7 minutes on the chair for 20 seconds of straightlined bumps. And for a while they didn't even have a real jump in the terrain park. Bored out of my mind for the first half of the season.

If they ever expand and get a dedicated, reasonable pitch run they can bump up for the entire season and put in a small-medium size half pipe, I'll consider going back. Other than that, I'll go for the competitions.

But I've already said too much, I fear the others are onto me. Best go and hide before swift and brutal retribution.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 11, 2011)

Seems like reasonable feedback to me.  

I'd imagine if I skied Killington every weekend, Sundown's offerings would be a bit of a let down.  

I'm guessing that many Sundown regulars would feel the same way if they skied up north as often as you do.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 11, 2011)

The 10th Mtn bumps are pretty hit and miss, sometimes a decent line form. This year was the first time (that I remember) that they put in bumps on Hitchcock which is a nice low angle hill. Great for people who wanted get a little practice in without being intimidated and fun to just rip through. They had great lines in them, not sure why it's good there but so sucky on 10th.


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## SkiFanE (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm a bump skier.  Hate seeded bumps.  Love natural, but in NE even the best natural trails need to get groomed flat every now and then.  But something like Agony at SR will be bumped up nicely again in a day.  I never have trouble finding a line, but I rarely ski seeded bumps - I wing it and always look far enough ahead to keep my rhythm.  Definitely a shame smaller mountains (ie WaWa) don't leave some stuff natural, seeded bumps are like driving on a race course...I like to be out on the roadway, best way to improve in bumps.  

Maybe seeded are best for competing, but nothing better than a nice long trail of natural bumps (got Antelope in 3 days before MRG closed, thanks JJ   ).


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## 2knees (Jul 11, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> I'm a bump skier.  Hate seeded bumps.  Love natural, but in NE even the best natural trails need to get groomed flat every now and then.  But something like Agony at SR will be bumped up nicely again in a day.  I never have trouble finding a line, but I rarely ski seeded bumps - I wing it and always look far enough ahead to keep my rhythm.  Definitely a shame smaller mountains (ie WaWa) don't leave some stuff natural, seeded bumps are like driving on a race course...I like to be out on the roadway, best way to improve in bumps.
> 
> Maybe seeded are best for competing, but nothing better than a nice long trail of natural bumps (got Antelope in 3 days before MRG closed, thanks JJ   ).



You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.


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## SkiFanE (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.



I note some sarcasm.  I have little experience in seeded bumps, and probably do worse in them than natural.  Never said I was  better skier, it's just a different kind of skiing.  Half the fun is finding natural bumps and then figuring them out.


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## Grassi21 (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.



Looks like this heat is making someone cranky... :lol:

Seeded bumps are for hacks... like me!


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## Riverskier (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.



Wow! I happen to agree with SkiFanE and prefer natural bumps. Let me make it immedaitely clear, that doesn't mean I think I am better than anybody.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.



Drinking at work again? :razz:


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## 2knees (Jul 11, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> I note some sarcasm.  I have little experience in seeded bumps, and probably do worse in them than natural.  Never said I was  better skier, it's just a different kind of skiing.  Half the fun is finding natural bumps and then figuring them out.



Wow, you're really on the ball today.  Yeah, lets try to figure out why little places in southern new england have to make bumps to have bumps.  CAUSE THE SHIT IS BULLETPROOF.  But a uber pro skier like yourself should know that.  You could take the top 50 bumpers in the world and have them ski the same 5 foot wide section for 8 hours and you'd be lucky if you ended up with ruts.  And the whole seeded vs natural thing is for gapers.  Bumps are bumps, people who say "i like the natural rythm of unseeded moguls because its fun to pick a line" or whatever other garbage they come up with say that because they wouldnt know a line if it came up and bit them in the ass.


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## 2knees (Jul 11, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Drinking at work again? :razz:



yeah, i'm slugging back Red Stag while I prepare for my quarterly finance meeting.


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## neil (Jul 11, 2011)

Seeded or unseeded, when I see bumps I groom them out with my snowboard. Works great!


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## wa-loaf (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> yeah, i'm slugging back Red Stag while I prepare for my quarterly finance meeting.



Jim Beam? Why not just drink some cherry Robitussin?  uke:


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## Riverskier (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> Wow, you're really on the ball today.  Yeah, lets try to figure out why little places in southern new england have to make bumps to have bumps.  CAUSE THE SHIT IS BULLETPROOF.  But a uber pro skier like yourself should know that.  You could take the top 50 bumpers in the world and have them ski the same 5 foot wide section for 8 hours and you'd be lucky if you ended up with ruts.  And the whole seeded vs natural thing is for gapers.  Bumps are bumps, people who say "i like the natural rythm of unseeded moguls because its fun to pick a line" or whatever other garbage they come up with say that because they wouldnt know a line if it came up and bit them in the ass.



Are you honestly saying there is zero difference between skiing seeded and natural bumps, and that anyone who feels there is a difference is arrogant and a crappy skier?


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## 4aprice (Jul 11, 2011)

Ah mogul talk on a hot humid July day.  I love it.(almost as refreshing as the swim I'm gonna take later)  Blue Mt does a nice job with their seeded bumps.  I'm sure I'll be bashing away at Camelback management about their's all season long.:smash:  I personally don't care if they are seeded or natural.  Seeded tend to be better down here where we don't get the benefit of refresher snows.  All I know is I continue to train (workout) all summer long with the thought of bump skiing in my head.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## deadheadskier (Jul 11, 2011)

Seeded, unseeded, doesn't matter, they both require the same skill set.  

Truthfully, great natural bumps will ski the exact same as great seeded bumps.  That's the whole reason ski areas have gone to seeding.  To mimic great natural bumps. That is of course if your preference is for zipper lines.  Though, I don't think I've ever met someone who said, "you know, I wish these bumps were a bit more erratic, they're making me ski in too much of a rhythm."

Most bump fanatics say Mary Jane, CO has the best bumps in the country.  Pretty much every video I've seen of them, the lines are perfect.......like they were seeded.


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## 2knees (Jul 11, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> Are you honestly saying there is zero difference between skiing seeded and natural bumps, and that anyone who feels there is a difference is arrogant and a crappy skier?



I'm saying anyone who cares about how they are made probably doesnt really care for bumps in the first place.


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## bvibert (Jul 11, 2011)

I like skiing bumps.  Seeded or natural, it doesn't matter to me, I'm equally pathetic in either.  I've skied a lot of seeded bumps in the last few years, but I've never skied a symmetrical course like most people associate with 'seeded bumps'.


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## SkiFanE (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> I'm saying anyone who cares about how they are made probably doesnt really care for bumps in the first place.



Please...I'd spend 100% of my time in bumps, and any day I'd choose natural over seeded.  If I had no choice, I'd choose seeded over groomer.  I've been to WaWa after natural snowfall, and think it's sad they groom to place to shit and leave one small area of seeded bumps for bump lovers.  I ski SR, it's groomerville, but I can always find a place with bumps...even if it means groomer dust on sides of trail after 12pm...I'll take it.

Nevermind.


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## Black Phantom (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> yeah, i'm slugging back Red Stag while I prepare for my quarterly finance meeting.



The Institution will open shortly. Until then:


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## bvibert (Jul 11, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> Please...I'd spend 100% of my time in bumps, and any day I'd choose natural over seeded.  If I had no choice, I'd choose seeded over groomer.  I've been to WaWa after natural snowfall, and think it's sad they groom to place to shit and leave one small area of seeded bumps for bump lovers.  I ski SR, it's groomerville, but I can always find a place with bumps...even if it means groomer dust on sides of trail after 12pm...I'll take it.
> 
> Nevermind.



Don't mind 2knees.  Some one pissed in his Wheaties this morning.

You're wrong, though, if you think seeded bumps are all symmetrical.


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## 2knees (Jul 11, 2011)

bvibert said:


> Don't mind 2knees.  Some one pissed in his Wheaties this morning.
> 
> You're wrong, though, if you think seeded bumps are all symmetrical.



nah, just read some stuff somewhere else from fannyski and thought i'd have some fun here.  go back to the regularly scheduled programming now.


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## SkiFanE (Jul 11, 2011)

bvibert said:


> Don't mind 2knees.  Some one pissed in his Wheaties this morning.
> 
> You're wrong, though, if you think seeded bumps are all symmetrical.



I'll take your word for it, since I don't ski them much.   But I'll give them a whirl next year..my 11-12 goal lol.


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## SkiFanE (Jul 11, 2011)

2knees said:


> nah, just read some stuff somewhere else from fannyski and thought i'd have some fun here.  go back to the regularly scheduled programming now.



Which is... my severe offense at the acronym CLITs?


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## deadheadskier (Jul 11, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> Which is... my severe offense at the acronym CLITs?



nope, 

I'm guessing your and many others overall trash talking on another forum against the people of this forum.  How many times a year they ski, where they ski, where they don't ski, what they do for work, Gaper this, tool that, how lame they think the conversations are on Alpinezone. It's a big ole party of folks talking smack about many of the members of this forum.   

but hey, if that's your thing........Andyzee has an app for that


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## bvibert (Jul 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> nope,
> 
> I'm guessing your and many others overall trash talking on another forum against the people of this forum.  How many times a year they ski, where they ski, where they don't ski, what they do for work, Gaper this, tool that, how lame they think the conversations are on Alpinezone. It's a big ole party of folks talking smack about many of the members of this forum.
> 
> but hey, if that's your thing........Andyzee has an app for that



Ah, it's all making sense now.


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## jack97 (Jul 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> nope,
> 
> I'm guessing your and many others overall trash talking on another forum against the people of this forum.  How many times a year they ski, where they ski, where they don't ski, what they do for work, Gaper this, tool that, how lame they think the conversations are on Alpinezone. It's a big ole party of folks talking smack about many of the members of this forum.
> 
> but hey, if that's your thing........Andyzee has an app for that





bvibert said:


> Ah, it's all making sense now.



It's getting to a point where once they make statements that seeded bumps are symmetrical (without the right qualifiers) is telling me that they don't spend alot of time in them. I should probably leave it at that.


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## jack97 (Jul 11, 2011)

Watatic Skier said:


> Edit: heres a picture from one of the times they had 10th bumped up
> 
> 
> 
> ...



umm.... I would bang that all night.


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## powhunter (Jul 11, 2011)

Anyways...The C.L.I.T.S are damn lucky


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## SkiFanE (Jul 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> nope,
> 
> I'm guessing your and many others overall trash talking on another forum against the people of this forum.  How many times a year they ski, where they ski, where they don't ski, what they do for work, Gaper this, tool that, how lame they think the conversations are on Alpinezone. It's a big ole party of folks talking smack about many of the members of this forum.
> 
> but hey, if that's your thing........Andyzee has an app for that



Ahh...my worlds colliding.  No problem sir.


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## Nick (Jul 11, 2011)

I've never even thought about seeded vs. not - I like the challenge of both. 

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## mondeo (Jul 11, 2011)

Stay moguled, my friends.


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## 4aprice (Jul 11, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Stay moguled, my friends.



Classic, I love it.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Glenn (Jul 12, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Stay moguled, my friends.



That delivers.


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## Black Phantom (Jul 12, 2011)

powhunter said:


> Anyways...The C.L.I.T.S are damn lucky


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

2knees said:


> You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.




Why such a kurt response?  Oh yeah, I just looked at the poster name, missed it.


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## Black Phantom (Jul 12, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Why such a kurt response?


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## Riverskier (Jul 12, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> nope,
> 
> I'm guessing your and many others overall trash talking on another forum against the people of this forum.  How many times a year they ski, where they ski, where they don't ski, what they do for work, Gaper this, tool that, how lame they think the conversations are on Alpinezone. It's a big ole party of folks talking smack about many of the members of this forum.
> 
> but hey, if that's your thing........Andyzee has an app for that



I think it is best to keep Alpinezone discussions about Alpinezone. If you have concerns about discussions on other forums, perhaps you can voice your concerns there.


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## Grassi21 (Jul 12, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> I think it is best to keep Alpinezone discussions about Alpinezone. If you have concerns about discussions on other forums, perhaps you can voice your concerns there.



In this case it seems like trash talking from another forum was being masked and brought to AZ.  At least that is what I pieced together from this thread....  Am I wrong?  Honestly.  I don't really frequent other ski forums besides AZ.


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

Grassi21 said:


> In this case it seems like trash talking from another forum was being masked and brought to AZ.  At least that is what I pieced together from this thread....  Am I wrong?  Honestly.  I don't really frequent other ski forums besides AZ.



I do not recall seeing trash talking before it started here. Maybe 2knees can pinpoint his comment, because she said nothing about what he is implying.


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## Black Phantom (Jul 12, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> I think it is best to keep Alpinezone discussions about Alpinezone. If you have concerns about discussions on other forums, perhaps you can voice your concerns there.








They'll getcha!:grin:


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## Riverskier (Jul 12, 2011)

Grassi21 said:


> In this case it seems like trash talking from another forum was being masked and brought to AZ.  At least that is what I pieced together from this thread....  Am I wrong?  Honestly.  I don't really frequent other ski forums besides AZ.



There may have been trash talk on another, but was brought to AZ and incorporated into this discussion by 2knees, though subtly. DHS wasn't so subtle. I just don't think Alpinezone needs to concern itself with what happens on other forums, especially fostered by forum moderators. If people don't like the conversation on other forums they can choose not to read, or express their concerns in that forum. Just my opinion.


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> There may have been trash talk on another, but was brought to AZ and incorporated into this discussion by 2knees, though subtly. DHS wasn't so subtle. I just don't think Alpinezone needs to concern itself with what happens on other forums, especially fostered by forum moderators. If people don't like the conversation on other forums they can choose not to read, or express their concerns in that forum. Just my opinion.



2knees went after a person that did not write anything derogatory on the other forum.


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## bvibert (Jul 12, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> There may have been trash talk on another, but was brought to AZ and incorporated into this discussion by 2knees, though subtly. DHS wasn't so subtle. I just don't think Alpinezone needs to concern itself with what happens on other forums, especially fostered by forum moderators. If people don't like the conversation on other forums they can choose not to read, or express their concerns in that forum. Just my opinion.



I didn't see any concern.  DHS was explaining to Fanny why 2knees might be a little harsh, since they didn't seem to get it on their own.

You can't expect things you say on one forum not to follow you to other places on the internet.  Things I say and have done are discussed all the time on another forum that I don't even visit.  I don't see how it's any different.  At least 2knees isn't slandering Fanny, or perpetuating lies and mis-truths about them.


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## Grassi21 (Jul 12, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> I'm a bump skier.  Hate seeded bumps.  Love natural, but in NE even the best natural trails need to get groomed flat every now and then.  But something like Agony at SR will be bumped up nicely again in a day.  I never have trouble finding a line, but I rarely ski seeded bumps - I wing it and always look far enough ahead to keep my rhythm.  Definitely a shame smaller mountains (ie WaWa) don't leave some stuff natural, seeded bumps are like driving on a race course...I like to be out on the roadway, best way to improve in bumps.
> 
> Maybe seeded are best for competing, but nothing better than a nice long trail of natural bumps (got Antelope in 3 days before MRG closed, thanks JJ   ).





2knees said:


> You sound like you really know your stuff.  You should put on a clinic for all of us less then 30 day a year unaddicted hacks who can only ski seeded bump lines made with laser precision.  I'd sign up in a heartbeat to learn from a pro like yourself.  Let me know when and where.  I'll clear my schedule.





Riverskier said:


> There may have been trash talk on another, but was brought to AZ and incorporated into this discussion by 2knees, though subtly. DHS wasn't so subtle. I just don't think Alpinezone needs to concern itself with what happens on other forums, especially fostered by forum moderators. If people don't like the conversation on other forums they can choose not to read, or express their concerns in that forum. Just my opinion.





Puck it said:


> 2knees went after a person that did not write anything derogatory on the other forum.



I was under the assumption that SkiFanE was from "another forum" and that is why 2knees came at him.  If SkiFanE just posted up his opinion that is cool.  

Historically, there were always a lot of trolls popping into AZ that simply want to rile up the Sundown regulars for fun (actually the trolling seems to have died down a bit).  Everyone's opinion should be respected unless they are intentionally doing it to start a flame war.


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## SkiFanE (Jul 12, 2011)

Don't get your panties in a knot.  I really am not 'in' with the AZ crowd, and all the past stuff (re: Sundown etc.) I am really have no knowledge about.  I just was jonesing for some skiing and bumping on a hot July day and saw a thread where people mentioned seeded vs. natural...and I thought I'd pipe in.  And voila...  Yes...I post at Andy's site and poke fun of AZ, but I don't recall being mean, and glad a poster up above agrees.  I haven't posted here in a while, but I guess it's just not possible for me to post at both places.  That's okay.  Just would have liked to know that before I got you all so pissy...last PMs I had from Nick were gracious and along the lines of "hope you return to post".  Guess that was a crock of poo poo.


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## Black Phantom (Jul 12, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> Don't get your panties in a knot.  I really am not 'in' with the AZ crowd, and all the past stuff (re: Sundown etc.) I am really have no knowledge about.  I just was jonesing for some skiing and bumping on a hot July day and saw a thread where people mentioned seeded vs. natural...and I thought I'd pipe in.  And voila...  Yes...I post at Andy's site and poke fun of AZ, but I don't recall being mean, and glad a poster up above agrees.  I haven't posted here in a while, but I guess it's just not possible for me to post at both places.  That's okay.  Just would have liked to know that before I got you all so pissy...last PMs I had from Nick were gracious and along the lines of "hope you return to post".  Guess that was a crock of poo poo.



Wedgie?


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## JerseyJoey (Jul 12, 2011)

2knees is making trouble with SkiFanE. Totally uncalled for. 2knees should apologize to her. 

Picking on a chick? Really 2knees? You should say your sorry to her for the attack. You should be as good as she is on skis, then maybe talk, but your attack on her is disturbing.


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## Grassi21 (Jul 12, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> Don't get your panties in a knot.  I really am not 'in' with the AZ crowd, and all the past stuff (re: Sundown etc.) I am really have no knowledge about.  I just was jonesing for some skiing and bumping on a hot July day and saw a thread where people mentioned seeded vs. natural...and I thought I'd pipe in.  And voila...  Yes...I post at Andy's site and poke fun of AZ, but I don't recall being mean, and glad a poster up above agrees.  I haven't posted here in a while, but I guess it's just not possible for me to post at both places.  That's okay.  Just would have liked to know that before I got you all so pissy...last PMs I had from Nick were gracious and along the lines of "hope you return to post".  Guess that was a crock of poo poo.



Don't let 2knees scare you off.  He is a big softy in person.  

My interpretation of the situation here on AZ was wrong.  I thought you were carrying over a flame war from another forum which was not the case.  Happy posting!  Seeded bumps rule.


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## bvibert (Jul 12, 2011)

SkiFanE said:


> Don't get your panties in a knot.  I really am not 'in' with the AZ crowd, and all the past stuff (re: Sundown etc.) I am really have no knowledge about.  I just was jonesing for some skiing and bumping on a hot July day and saw a thread where people mentioned seeded vs. natural...and I thought I'd pipe in.  And voila...  Yes...I post at Andy's site and poke fun of AZ, but I don't recall being mean, and glad a poster up above agrees.  I haven't posted here in a while, but I guess it's just not possible for me to post at both places.  That's okay.  Just would have liked to know that before I got you all so pissy...last PMs I had from Nick were gracious and along the lines of "hope you return to post".  Guess that was a crock of poo poo.



No one said you couldn't post in both places.  If you do though, don't expect what you say at one place to stay there.

I don't know what you've said on other sites, because frankly I don't care.  Apparently something you said, or were part of didn't sit right with 2knees.  That's his prerogative.  Maybe he misunderstood something you said, I don't know?  If you feel you're being attacked by 2knees then please let us know by either reporting the post, or PMing Nick or one of the moderators.


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## snoseek (Jul 12, 2011)

You all need to get some work done or something, those new skis aint gonna pay for themselves!


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## Nick (Jul 12, 2011)

This thread is way off topic and gone a little ridiculous. If we want to start another thread about moguls seeded vs. not please feel free too....

I'm supposed to be enjoying my vacation :lol:


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## Riverskier (Jul 12, 2011)

Grassi21 said:


> I was under the assumption that SkiFanE was from "another forum" and that is why 2knees came at him.  If SkiFanE just posted up his opinion that is cool.
> 
> Historically, there were always a lot of trolls popping into AZ that simply want to rile up the Sundown regulars for fun (actually the trolling seems to have died down a bit).  Everyone's opinion should be respected unless they are intentionally doing it to start a flame war.



SkiFanE has been a good contributor to AZ since joining and expressed a valid opinion regarding seeded vs natural bumps. 2knees trolled her because apparently he didn't like something she said on another site. DHS jumped in the criticize said site, and to back up 2knees. This would seem to go against forum rules and etiquete.


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## o3jeff (Jul 12, 2011)

JerseyJoey said:


> 2knees is making trouble with SkiFanE. Totally uncalled for. 2knees should apologize to her.
> 
> Picking on a chick? Really 2knees? You should say your sorry to her for the attack. You should be as good as she is on skis, then maybe talk, but your attack on her is disturbing.



I think he picked on you once and got reprimanded on a free speech site, imagine that....


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## JerseyJoey (Jul 12, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> I think he picked on you once and got reprimanded on a free speech site, imagine that....



Haha. Very good Jeff.


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## Grassi21 (Jul 12, 2011)

Riverskier said:


> SkiFanE has been a good contributor to AZ since joining and expressed a valid opinion regarding seeded vs natural bumps.



Right, no arguments here.  I was just backing off of my assessment of the SkiFanE's original post.


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> I think he picked on you once and got reprimanded on a free speech site, imagine that....



He made a comment about my wife once.  He did take it down pretty fast. But he never seems to get in trouble. If I did it, I would be on you know what. Just want to know, why he gets away with it? And please do not put me on it, again.


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## Nick (Jul 12, 2011)




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## o3jeff (Jul 12, 2011)

Puck it said:


> He made a comment about my wife once.  He did take it down pretty fast. But he never seems to get in trouble. If I did it, I would be on you know what. Just want to know, why he gets away with it? And please do not put me on it, again.



It's all about who you know, when something is owned by someone they are allowed do what they want with it.


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> It's all about who you know, when something is owned by someone they are allowed do what they want with it.



I guess so.  That's what I thought.  

Again, she made no comments that would warrant 2knees to attack her like that.  Public apologize in order?


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## SkiFanE (Jul 12, 2011)

bvibert said:


> No one said you couldn't post in both places.  If you do though, don't expect what you say at one place to stay there.
> 
> I don't know what you've said on other sites, because frankly I don't care.  Apparently something you said, or were part of didn't sit right with 2knees.  That's his prerogative.  Maybe he misunderstood something you said, I don't know?  If you feel you're being attacked by 2knees then please let us know by either reporting the post, or PMing Nick or one of the moderators.



I know I am not banned and free to post wherever.  No need to continue this any further.


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## bvibert (Jul 12, 2011)

Puck it said:


> I guess so.  That's what I thought.
> 
> Again, she made no comments that would warrant 2knees to attack her like that.  Public apologize in order?



That's between SkiFanE and 2knees, and possibly the forum management if she so chooses.

It doesn't need to be discussed any further, either this thread will revert back to being about skiing bumps or we'll lock it.


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

bvibert said:


> That's between SkiFanE and 2knees, and possibly the forum management if she so chooses.
> 
> It doesn't need to be discussed any further, either this thread will revert back to being about skiing bumps or we'll lock it.



Natural.  How's that!:flag:


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## Riverskier (Jul 12, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> It's all about who you know, when something is owned by someone they are allowed do what they want with it.



Very true and the way it should be. I still think that ideally the rules would be enforced uniformly.


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## snoseek (Jul 12, 2011)

Seeded bumps are a great thing to have at your local hill to practice for the real thing. I personally don't like them but that has more to do with the fact that i dislike hard snow. I freaking love big soft natural bumps like at Taos, telluride, mj ect.....


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## bvibert (Jul 12, 2011)

snoseek said:


> Seeded bumps are a great thing to have at your local hill to practice for the real thing. I personally don't like them but that has more to do with the fact that i dislike hard snow. I freaking love big soft natural bumps like at Taos, telluride, mj ect.....



I can definitely appreciate that sentiment.


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## o3jeff (Jul 12, 2011)

I can care less, I can't ski either. I think 2knees along with his neighbor prefer seeded bumps and I wouldn't call his neighbor a gaper...


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

snoseek said:


> Seeded bumps are a great thing to have at your local hill to practice for the real thing. I personally don't like them but that has more to do with the fact that i dislike hard snow. I freaking love big soft natural bumps like at Taos, telluride, mj ect.....



Back on tract.


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## Nick (Jul 12, 2011)

Prior to coming to AZ I never even considered seeded vs. non seeded. Does it basically boil down to getting into an easier rythym? 

I'm guessing all olympic / competition courses are normally seeded?


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## mondeo (Jul 12, 2011)

Nick said:


> Prior to coming to AZ I never even considered seeded vs. non seeded. Does it basically boil down to getting into an easier rythym?
> 
> I'm guessing all olympic / competition courses are normally seeded?


Yeah, seeded it's easier to find a line and the spacing is fairly uniform, natural changes pace, size, lines die, etc.

Competition courses are seeded to level the playing field. Also, with duals, you want two courses that are identical as possible.


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## Nick (Jul 12, 2011)

I always wondered that with the duals. At the end of the day two tracks can never be identical, right? Won't one always be at least somewhat better, even if marginally?


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## Puck it (Jul 12, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Yeah, seeded it's easier to find a line and the spacing is fairly uniform, natural changes pace, size, lines die, etc.
> 
> Competition courses are seeded to level the playing field. Also, with duals, you want two courses that are identical as possible.



There is an analogy here, but I would be banned for stating it!


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## snoseek (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm just gonna come right out and say i'm not very good at seeded bumps. I think its because they are usually hard but not really sure. Throw me on the Pali chair at a basin-no problem but the seeded moguls at loon i kind of suck.....


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## Nick (Jul 12, 2011)

I dunno. I always have the same thing with mogules. I feel really good for a bit, then they start to get away from me, I end up leaning back, and before you know it I'm flying across the tops of them at perpendicular to the slope.

Definitely one of my goals this season to improve my moguls.


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## mondeo (Jul 12, 2011)

Nick said:


> I always wondered that with the duals. At the end of the day two tracks can never be identical, right? Won't one always be at least somewhat better, even if marginally?


Yep, get skied in differently, morph into two differnent lines. But the spacing doesn't change, and slipping can help keep them pretty similar. Usually they're kept close enough that it's still pretty fair.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 12, 2011)

snoseek said:


> I'm just gonna come right out and say i'm not very good at seeded bumps. I think its because they are usually hard but not really sure. Throw me on the Pali chair at a basin-no problem but the seeded moguls at loon i kind of suck.....



Definitely a snow surface thing

If you can ski Pali chair bumps well, then you can ski seeded bumps well if the surface is soft.  

Skiing rock hard moguls whether they are natural or man made is very difficult.  You have to adjust your technique to control speed and the lack of forgiveness in the snow makes it easier to get bucked out of the line.

A good bump skier is a good bump skier.  I have never met someone who can ski seeded bumps well who can't ski natural bumps well.


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## Glenn (Jul 12, 2011)

I tend to prefer seeded...basically because it's easier to get a decent rhythm; mostly because the bumps are usually evenly spaced. Natural bumps can be a bit more challenging. I sometimes feel like I get going good...then it all falls apart after a few oddly space bumps...or the bumps suddenly vanish because the terrain flattens out. 

I've said it before...I blame this damn forum for getting me into bump skiing. :lol:


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## bvibert (Jul 12, 2011)

Glenn said:


> I've said it before...I blame this damn forum for getting me into bump skiing. :lol:



You're welcome! :beer:


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## jack97 (Jul 12, 2011)

snoseek said:


> I'm just gonna come right out and say i'm not very good at seeded bumps. I think its because they are usually hard but not really sure. Throw me on the Pali chair at a basin-no problem but the seeded moguls at loon i kind of suck.....





Nick said:


> I dunno. I always have the same thing with mogules. I feel really good for a bit, then they start to get away from me, I end up leaning back, and before you know it I'm flying across the tops of them at perpendicular to the slope.
> 
> Definitely one of my goals this season to improve my moguls.



Not calling anyone out.... but here's the point, nowadays (in general) seeded bumps have tight formation and if places leave them alone, the troughs will get deep, real deep. It forces you to ski whats ahead of you. IMO, the "natural" bumps in most areas don't get skied in enough,  the bump formation is rather loose so its gets real easy to shop for turns. In a way, it allows you to ski around the moguls instead of skiing in the moguls. 

And yeah.... that comment about symmetrical formation in seeded bumps. As mondeo said most freestyle teams will slip them, furthermore coaches will use a pick and shovel to manicure them to their satisfaction. I've seen that plenty of times and its why some are closed off to the public, to much time was spent making that course. Places that seed bumps for general use will let the crowds ski in the field.... sometime for the worse or for the best. Even in a seeded trail, I have seen lines disappear in a matter of weeks.


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## gmcunni (Jul 12, 2011)

screw the whole seeded vs. natural bump argument. what i don't like is the 1/4 inch track certain groomers leave between the rows of corduroy.  i much prefer the 5/16th inch tracks. it really makes a difference in how i set an edge. if i know i'm skiing at a 1/4 inch track mountain i have to retune my skis with a 2.59 degree bevel


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## jack97 (Jul 12, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> ...  i much prefer the 5/16th inch tracks. it really makes a difference in how i set an edge....



I think 5/16th are for gapers... imo


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## ctenidae (Jul 12, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> if i know i'm skiing at a 1/4 inch track mountain i have to retune my skis with a 2.59 degree bevel



Poser. Everybody knows for 1/4 inch 2.57 degrees is best. With 2.59, you might as well be wearing blue jeans and a Starter jacket, skiing on 3/16.

n00b.


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## Nick (Jul 12, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> Poser. Everybody knows for 1/4 inch 2.57 degrees is best. With 2.59, you might as well be wearing blue jeans and a Starter jacket, skiing on 3/16.
> 
> n00b.



:lol:

Sent from my Thunderbolt via Tapatalk


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## JimG. (Jul 12, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> screw the whole seeded vs. natural bump argument. what i don't like is the 1/4 inch track certain groomers leave between the rows of corduroy.  i much prefer the 5/16th inch tracks. it really makes a difference in how i set an edge. if i know i'm skiing at a 1/4 inch track mountain i have to retune my skis with a 2.59 degree bevel



Too funny!


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