# Good on everything except ice



## SkiDork (Dec 14, 2010)

I hear this statement a lot in reference to rocker skis.  But what exactly does this mean to me?

Every ski I've ever owned was not good on ice.  What I mean by that is, I can _try_ to edge a turn on ice, but I'm inevtiably going to slip to some degree.

Furthermore, a ski that is _good on ice_ is really only good for a few runs after a tune.  After that (when the edges get duller) I'm back to bad on ice.

Therefore I believe that there is really no disadvantage to rocker skis on ice.

Thoughts?


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## tjf67 (Dec 14, 2010)

Rockered skis are fine for a slow skier.  Take them out and get them up to high speed and that tip starts bouncing up and sown something fierce.   I like the rockered for powder and spring conditions.  Other than that there are better skis for the job.

I have a 4 year old pair of Enforcers.  This year they are calling them rockered and they are the same ski.


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## kingslug (Dec 14, 2010)

Since I've used the phrase a lot..my Sultan 85's  which I'm trying out now hold very well on the slick stuff, better than my Volkls which where really good at it...My double rockered rossi's wash out instantly..totaly useless...scary useless...the Sultans do not have a lot of sidecut and are very damp..therefore they really bite into the ice with almost the full length of the ski..the Rossi's are really only engaging the tip and tail..and the only reason they do that is they have reverse sidecut on the rockers...kind of a strange situation..and the ski is pretty soft..they flex like crazy..which does nothing on icy surfaces...thats about the best I can explain..at least my impression of it.


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## SkiDork (Dec 14, 2010)

kingslug said:


> Since I've used the phrase a lot..my Sultan 85's  which I'm trying out now hold very well on the slick stuff, better than my Volkls which where really good at it...My double rockered rossi's wash out instantly..totaly useless...scary useless...the Sultans do not have a lot of sidecut and are very damp..therefore they really bite into the ice with almost the full length of the ski..the Rossi's are really only engaging the tip and tail..and the only reason they do that is they have reverse sidecut on the rockers...kind of a strange situation..and the ski is pretty soft..they flex like crazy..which does nothing on icy surfaces...thats about the best I can explain..at least my impression of it.



ok I understand now.  Thanks

so I guess if you're on rockers you're just planning on sideslipping ice at best.


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## riverc0il (Dec 14, 2010)

SkiDork said:


> I hear this statement a lot in reference to rocker skis.  But what exactly does this mean to me?
> 
> Every ski I've ever owned was not good on ice.  What I mean by that is, I can _try_ to edge a turn on ice, but I'm inevtiably going to slip to some degree.
> 
> ...


Complete disagreement. Race skis and cheater skis carve "ice" if you have the skills. Hell, they intentionally "ice" up FIS race courses. I put "ice" in quotations because what most folks call "ice" is really extremely scraped down frozen hard pack. True ice, not even Bode could carve a turn over (i.e. a snow making pipe breaks, floods a trail, and freezes... that is real ice). 

Every ski has tendencies that exist on a continuum ranging from poor to great on hard pack, on bumps, in powder, etc. Skis that tend to be better on natural snow tend not to carve arcs as well as race skis and vice versa. The industry has gotten really good at selling the "one ski quiver" saying that there are no draw backs. Hog wash, says I.


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## SkiDork (Dec 14, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Complete disagreement. Race skis and cheater skis carve "ice" if you have the skills. Hell, they intentionally "ice" up FIS race courses. I put "ice" in quotations because what most folks call "ice" is really extremely scraped down frozen hard pack. True ice, not even Bode could carve a turn over (i.e. a snow making pipe breaks, floods a trail, and freezes... that is real ice).



Well, I agree a racer can carve a course with a nice freshly sharpened ski.  But after a few runs that ski will not carve so well.

OTOH, I guess the rocker without the tip and tail pressure wouldn't do that even freshly sharpened.  So I see the point


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## riverc0il (Dec 14, 2010)

SkiDork said:


> Well, I agree a racer can carve a course with a nice freshly sharpened ski.  But after a few runs that ski will not carve so well.
> 
> OTOH, I guess the rocker without the tip and tail pressure wouldn't do that even freshly sharpened.  So I see the point


Think of it this way, both skis with a freshly sharpened edge will ski vastly different. And when both skis have both had their edges worn away after a few runs or a few days, the carving ski will perform remarkably better on hard pack than a ski dedicated to softer snow conditions.

Its why I picked up a pair of Volkl Six Stars used on the cheap earlier this year... so I could have a ski that could really carve up the hard pack when there is no natural terrain open. The difference between my 8000s and 6*s is jaw dropping on the hard pack. And that comparison holds true with the 8000s having a fresh edge and 6*s not having been sharpened in who knows how long. The ski characteristics are just that different. The 8000s are not rockered but the point is that the two skis have vastly different characteristics which give vastly different performance in varying conditions.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2010)

how do you like the 6stars Steve and if you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for them?  Did they come with demos or did you have to have them remounted?

I'm in the market for something similar.  I'm hesitant to buy used as I never have and don't want junk skis showing up at my door.  I'm hesitant to buy new as I'd like to avoid a divorce :lol:


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## riverc0il (Dec 14, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> how do you like the 6stars Steve and if you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for them?  Did they come with demos or did you have to have them remounted?
> 
> I'm in the market for something similar.  I'm hesitant to buy used as I never have and don't want junk skis showing up at my door.  I'm hesitant to buy new as I'd like to avoid a divorce :lol:


I demoed the 6*s years ago when they first came out so I knew exactly what I was getting. So needless to say I really like them for what I bought them for. Given that I have only had them out one day on a WROD, I haven't truly been able to put the pedal to the metal quite yet. But if we get into a natural snow drought and there is no good snow to be earned, you might see a TR from me involving nothing but high speed big arcs all day.  They have an integrated binding system and I got em' for something like $220 or so.

If I were you, I'd give that Fischer Progressor 9 and 10 a demo if you get a chance. I couldn't justify paying twice as much for a used pair of those given how specialized and limited that type of ski is for my quiver. But if I was going to be skiing a large amount of time on groomers and wanted a newer model, that would probably be the one I would look at first.


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## 180 (Dec 14, 2010)

What size do you ski?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2010)

thought of the Progressors.  Also eyeing some Head Monster 78.  They get great reviews on carving hard pack, but offer a bit more versatility.  Guess I'm looking for a 90-10 board.  I'm concerned if I go direct to a cheater race ski that they'll completely suck in bumps or a bit of powder.

Just had my eyes on some Dynastar Contact 4x4s on ebay.  They went for $202. 

Too bad there was a shop real close to Ragged that I could try a few models during the same day.  I always seem to miss the industry demo days at other mountains.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 15, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm concerned if I go direct to a cheater race ski that they'll completely suck in bumps or a bit of powder.



I have the Atomic GS cheaters.  I dont ski bumps, but from the little I have a softer ski is much easier.  The stiff ski would hit the backs of the moguls and throw you around.  The cheaters are the same stiffness as the FIS racers, just have a smaller turn radius.  As for powder they sink like a stone.  I have played on race nights when we get fresh, and they are still alot of fun, but there is no floating going to happen.



deadheadskier said:


> Too bad there was a shop real close to Ragged that I could try a few models during the same day.  I always seem to miss the industry demo days at other mountains.



Is there a shop on property that does demos?  Most mountains I have been to have a decent demo fleet in the ski shop.


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## gorgonzola (Dec 15, 2010)

i have the '05 version of this ski and still love it for carving up the mountain and have spent all day in the bumps with 'em too although a little stiff. i have had good experiences with this seller as well

http://www.powder7.com/sale-skis/model/Head-iXRC-1100-Skis-163cm-New-2009


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## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2010)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I have the Atomic GS cheaters.  I dont ski bumps, but from the little I have a softer ski is much easier.  The stiff ski would hit the backs of the moguls and throw you around.  The cheaters are the same stiffness as the FIS racers, just have a smaller turn radius.  As for powder they sink like a stone.  I have played on race nights when we get fresh, and they are still alot of fun, but there is no floating going to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a shop on property that does demos?  Most mountains I have been to have a decent demo fleet in the ski shop.



only a soft goods shop on the mountain



gorgonzola said:


> i have the '05 version of this ski and still love it for carving up the mountain and have spent all day in the bumps with 'em too although a little stiff. i have had good experiences with this seller as well
> 
> http://www.powder7.com/sale-skis/model/Head-iXRC-1100-Skis-163cm-New-2009



not a bad deal, but 163 is a bit under what I'm looking for.

hell, who knows.  I just need to get out and try a bunch of skis.  

Dynstar Contact 4x4 really sounds up my alley for what I want.  I'm just not in the market for dropping $750 on a new set up this year.  Maybe next though


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## wa-loaf (Dec 15, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> only a soft goods shop on the mountain



Last time I was there they had some decent demo's down in the rental shop.


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