# Mount Snow 3/7 and 3/8



## drjeff (Mar 8, 2009)

*Dates:* 3/7 and 3/8/09

*Resort:* Mount Snow

*Conditions:* Saturday 3/7, PERFECT spring day!  Cool AM start to start the day with a firm base (although the same cool start kept the Northface on "snow softening hold" until around 11AM  ), then BLUEBIRD sky until around 3 when the clouds rolled in and temps in the mid 40's.  Sunday 3/8 Cloud level was maybe 1/4th the way up the mountain at 1st chair and SLOWLY rolled up the mountain with BLUEBIRD sky by noontime temps warmed from the upper 30's into the upper 40's by the time I left around 2PM snow went from corn to mushy mashed potatoes as the temps rose and the sun came out.  Snow pack is holding up quite well on most trails.

*Report:* Great way to finish off my vacation week.  Saturday - just a great spring day!  Warm temps, sunny sky, and ALOT of people thought that skiing/riding @ Mount Snow would be a good thing to do.  Main lifts were full corral by 9AM  and the fact that the North Face was on "softening hold" until around 11AM didn't help with the lines.  The snow was great skiing spring corn to mashed potatoes as the day went on.  I eventually ended up lapping Beartrap for about 10 runs in the afternoon(the fact that my daughters ski school class was doing the same thing didn't hurt either )  The clouds rolled in around lift closing time and by 7PM it was "immature snowing" pretty heavily 

Woke up Sunday with the top 3/4ths or so of the mountain encased in the cloud layer and that combined with the 40 degree temp and the moderate/heavy "immature snow" overnight had me heading to the hill expecting DEEP mashed potatoes.  I was pleasently suprised to find that most of the North Face had corned up quite well, and spent from about 8:30 until 10 lapping Jaws and Plummet.  About 10:30, after what I'm pretty sure was a Glenn and Mrs. Glenn siting heading down the bottom of River Run as I was on the lift, I was off to grab my 3 year old for a father/son run down Snowdance before I had to go and clean up my place.  The kid did well on our roughly 1/2hour decent of Snowdance that was getting more and more sun and hence became more and more mashed potato like.  After dropping him back off at Cub Camp I quickly went and grab another 2 runs on Bear Trap before it was time for me to go around noon.

A few pics from saturday







Bluebird Sky above Sundance triple





Canyon Quad line @ 9AM 





Sunbrook NEVER has a line 





Base area just BEFORE the ropes dropped on the Northface





Token Minnesota Viking Fan pic 





A few weeks early for gaper day  Ski Tote stoke though!





And finally whats a spring skiing day photo expo without the token beer pic! :beer:


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## MommaBear (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks for the report!  I always enjoy reading how I missed a great weekend, darn tax season.  :-(

Family reported in as well with all good info.  Hubby not thrilled about the hold on North Face but got over it soon enough once it opened.  All arrived home last night tired and sunburned, but with smiles on their faces.  Embarassed to say my middle son gave a different version of the "chaos' experienced over at Carinthia end of the day.  He said the snowball fight was at the base itself, not necessarily in the Nitro lift line.  And he thought it was "great" and "hysterical".  I think I would agree more with Loafer and would have been really annoyed.

Saw the picture of a group enjoying a beer on the Mount Snow home page...any of them you?


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## loafer89 (Mar 9, 2009)

MommaBear said:


> Thanks for the report! I always enjoy reading how I missed a great weekend, darn tax season. :-(
> 
> Family reported in as well with all good info. Hubby not thrilled about the hold on North Face but got over it soon enough once it opened. All arrived home last night tired and sunburned, but with smiles on their faces. Embarassed to say my middle son gave a different version of the "chaos' experienced over at Carinthia end of the day. He said the snowball fight was at the base itself, not necessarily in the Nitro lift line. And he thought it was "great" and "hysterical". I think I would agree more with Loafer and would have been really annoyed.
> 
> Saw the picture of a group enjoying a beer on the Mount Snow home page...any of them you?


 

The snowball fight was most certainly in the lift maze for the Nitro Express. The lifty even came out fairly aggresively and stated "what you think I am afraid of a snowball" after being hit several times and chasing down one person that hit him.

It was 100% out of control B.S that I was ashamed to be around with my son.


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## tree_skier (Mar 9, 2009)

I saw the yiking fan also.

Someone would have died if they had opened the northface at 8 on sat.


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## MommaBear (Mar 9, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> The snowball fight was most certainly in the lift maze for the Nitro Express.


  What I meant was it wasn't ONLY in the lift maze but across the base as well.  He was over by the 2 person lift.  Once he realize I was asking about it because someone was upset with what happened, the conversation pretty much ended, as most do when the kids think they are headed for trouble.

Which is why I agree with YOU that it was probably something that would have really ticked me off had I been there.  I'm sorry for your experience.  Thou Carinthia has a different vibe than the rest of the mountain, its not usually that out of control.


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## loafer89 (Mar 9, 2009)

Yesterday's experience only goes to prove to me why I choose to drive 4-5 hours to ski at Sugarloaf/Saddleback rather than take the easy way out and drive two hours for Mount Snow.

It's a completly different type of crowd in Maine vs Vermont, especially in Southern Vermont.

Perhaps we will ski Mount Snow again in late March/ Early April when most of the riff/raff is gone.


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## Glenn (Mar 9, 2009)

50 and Sunny Sunday....6" of snow today. Talk about an example of contrast.


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## drjeff (Mar 9, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> Yesterday's experience only goes to prove to me why I choose to drive 4-5 hours to ski at Sugarloaf/Saddleback rather than take the easy way out and drive two hours for Mount Snow.
> 
> It's a completly different type of crowd in Maine vs Vermont, especially in Southern Vermont.
> 
> Perhaps we will ski Mount Snow again in late March/ Early April when most of the riff/raff is gone.



Just to forewarn you Loafer, and I'll bet that we'll get confirmation on it this weekend at the Mount Snow Seasons Pass holders meeting, my strong suspicion this year is that the season at Mount Snow will likely end at Carinthia instead of the Main Base area as usual.  They've got more snow on the carinthia side than the Main Mountain side, and truthfully speaking, havinga couple of parks + a likely 1/2 pipe open deep into April and possibly May will go a LLOONNGG way to seeling a bunch of day tickets.

My strong suspicision after having been to a few Season Pass Holders Meetings is that Carinthia and it's pros and cons will be one of the 1st topics brought up after a) what's new for next year and b) pass prices and my guess is that generalized ettiquite vs. the "Carinthia Vibe" will receive a decent amount of discussion time.


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## Glenn (Mar 10, 2009)

Overall, I think things have worked out pretty well with Carinthia. Although, I haven't spent any time in the lodge over there, so I can't comment on that. 

What I do think would help: Some lift line attendees/ticket scanners who aren't afriad to speak up. If someone goes out of turn, hold them back.


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## loafer89 (Mar 10, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Just to forewarn you Loafer, and I'll bet that we'll get confirmation on it this weekend at the Mount Snow Seasons Pass holders meeting, my strong suspicion this year is that the season at Mount Snow will likely end at Carinthia instead of the Main Base area as usual. They've got more snow on the carinthia side than the Main Mountain side, and truthfully speaking, havinga couple of parks + a likely 1/2 pipe open deep into April and possibly May will go a LLOONNGG way to seeling a bunch of day tickets.
> 
> My strong suspicision after having been to a few Season Pass Holders Meetings is that Carinthia and it's pros and cons will be one of the 1st topics brought up after a) what's new for next year and b) pass prices and my guess is that generalized ettiquite vs. the "Carinthia Vibe" will receive a decent amount of discussion time.


 
If that's the case then I might avoid Carinthia and ski from the main base lodge if that is still possible when we visit there in the future, if not then I'll ski elsewhere. Carinthia used to be a nice place to start the day before the park elements came along. The original plan for sunday was to ski Ragged and I really regret passing it up. The $9 deal for my son is what steered me in the direction of Mount Snow.


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## Glenn (Mar 10, 2009)

Loafer,
Try the Sundance lodge as a starting point on the weekends. If you get there around 8, you'll pretty much be parking in the first few rows. It's a much shorter walk than any parking for main base.


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> If that's the case then I might avoid Carinthia and ski from the main base lodge if that is still possible when we visit there in the future, if not then I'll ski elsewhere. Carinthia used to be a nice place to start the day before the park elements came along. The original plan for sunday was to ski Ragged and I really regret passing it up. The $9 deal for my son is what steered me in the direction of Mount Snow.



Youth Pay Their Age Day like it was Sunday tends to bring out a slightly more raucous crowd than a typical day, especially on the Carinthia side.  Generally speaking though nowadays if go make the Main Base lodge you're start/finish point it's alot "quieter" over there as it tends to be populated with mainly adults and familes with young kids.


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## loafer89 (Mar 10, 2009)

I sent Mount Snow an E-mail describing what happened. I doubt they care very much and it will be interesting to see if I get any response.


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## Newpylong (Mar 10, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> Yesterday's experience only goes to prove to me why I choose to drive 4-5 hours to ski at Sugarloaf/Saddleback rather than take the easy way out and drive two hours for Mount Snow.
> 
> It's a completly different type of crowd in Maine vs Vermont, especially in Southern Vermont.
> 
> Perhaps we will ski Mount Snow again in late March/ Early April when most of the riff/raff is gone.



Absolutely false stereotype that shows low little you ski at Mount Snow. The type of described behavior could have happened anywhere - outside of a place such as Saddleback, Mad River, etc. As a large resort with clientele from all over, Sugarloaf certainly is not exhonerated from this as well.

You have your bad eggs everywhere, but I can't remember one ride up the lift at Snow with strangers that I wouldn't have again. The people generally are mild mannered and very pleasant.

It is too bad that that happened - but it certainly is not the norm and I wouldn't assume that the mountain is not concerned or interested with your feedback.


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## loafer89 (Mar 10, 2009)

Newpylong said:


> Absolutely false stereotype that shows low little you ski at Mount Snow. The type of described behavior could have happened anywhere - outside of a place such as Saddleback, Mad River, etc. As a large resort with clientele from all over, Sugarloaf certainly is not exhonerated from this as well.
> 
> You have your bad eggs everywhere, but I can't remember one ride up the lift at Snow with strangers that I wouldn't have again. The people generally are mild mannered and very pleasant.
> 
> It is too bad that that happened - but it certainly is not the norm and I wouldn't assume that the mountain is not concerned or interested with your feedback.


 

Actually I have skied quite alot at Mount Snow in the past, so you should not make assumptions based on facts you don't have. What happened on sunday was outrageous and has never happened at any ski resort I have been to and I have visited better than 100 of them over nearly 30 years of skiing.

I have NEVER, EVER had anything even remotely close to this happen at Sugarloaf, nearly 100% of the folks I have meet have been extra friendly and mild mannered.

The feedback from the mountain was more or less a standard BS appology IMO:

Dear Kevin,​ 
Thank you for taking the time to write. I am very disappointed with the events you describe at Carinthia. Sunday was Youth Pay Your Age Day and we expected a larger crowd but we were unprepared for the snowball fight and general rowdiness of the crowd. ​ 
Our staff should have handled the situation better. In their defense, there was no specific training (for a snowball fight) provided as we have never had this situation before. As soon as a call for help went out over the radio, our staff responded and were able to get the situation under control but I know that it took time and I apologize. We have already had discussions with our lift, rescue and security staff and we have a plan in place should this happen in the future. In addition, we are going to beef up the staffing at the lift mazes for the spring.

I am truly sorry that your day at Carinthia ended like that. We have worked very hard this winter to make it a place that all ages could enjoy and I am very disappointed that one day could ruin it for so many people. We did take tickets and one season pass from several guests but these efforts occurred after the damage was done.

I hope you will give Carinthia and Mount Snow another try. We have learned from our mistakes and I am confident that your next trip will be enjoyable and without incident. Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Sincerely,

Kelly Pawlak
General Manager 

I don't buy the fact that they plan to have more staff on hand in the lift maze areas as we head later into spring and they have less terrain available and thusly fewer skier visits, the math behind that isn't there.

Personally I doubt I'll be back this year and my son isn't thrilled to visit again as well. If we do go I will skip Carinthia altogether.


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> Actually I have skied quite alot at Mount Snow in the past, so you should not make assumptions based on facts you don't have. What happened on sunday was outrageous and has never happened at any ski resort I have been to and I have visited better than 100 of them over nearly 30 years of skiing.
> 
> I have NEVER, EVER had anything even remotely close to this happen at Sugarloaf, nearly 100% of the folks I have meet have been extra friendly and mild mannered.
> 
> ...



Knowing Kelly, I don't doubt that she wrote that herself and didn't farm it out to someone else.



> I don't buy the fact that they plan to have more staff on hand in the lift maze areas as we head later into spring and they have less terrain available and thusly fewer skier visits, the math behind that isn't there.



Actually in the very near future 3 things will happen at Mount Snow that allows them to actually staff things better. 

#1 - they'll go into "spring mode" with less lifts to operate

#2 - even though the seasonal foriegn workers will be heading back to various parts of the globe very soon, once in spring mode, there tends to be more than adequate amounts of local employees(both full and part time) to staff what's open at these levels

#3 - and probably the most important one, Kelly Pawlak herself. She's a very hands on manager and on most weekend morning can be found for a decent amont of time out helping run/direct the lift lines/corrals in the main base area. Also, she's on all parts of the mountain itself personally checking out the mountain and also atleast one of her kids will likely be spending a bunch of time at Carinthia very soon since the USSA Mogul comps are just about done.



> Personally I doubt I'll be back this year and my son isn't thrilled to visit again as well. If we do go I will skip Carinthia altogether.



I realize what a difference Mount Snow must be to your son compared to the stuff I see in the many great TR's you have posted.  Hopefully this Sunday end up leaving a  "bad taste" in his mouth about Mount Snow, because as someone whose logged 42 days on the hill there this season,  I can tell you that what you experienced was an atypical event.


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## 2knees (Mar 10, 2009)

i dont know loafer, i think you're doing a pretty good job of generalizing here.

i've been skiing for 30 years too and i've never seen that anywhere.  It sucks that you were there with your son and had to be stuck in that, but who could have imagined a snowball riot breaking out in a lift line.  It is most certainly your right to vote with your wallet but there are plenty of people on here that do ski at mt snow and will continue to do so in the future. 

as far as the apology, it seems ok to me.  Want do you want them to do?  A comp maybe, other then that, all they can do is explain it and apologize for it.

Its not like they were lobbing molatov cocktails at you.  :wink:


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## loafer89 (Mar 10, 2009)

2knees said:


> i dont know loafer, i think you're doing a pretty good job of generalizing here.
> 
> i've been skiing for 30 years too and i've never seen that anywhere. It sucks that you were there with your son and had to be stuck in that, but who could have imagined a snowball riot breaking out in a lift line. It is most certainly your right to vote with your wallet but there are plenty of people on here that do ski at mt snow and will continue to do so in the future.
> 
> ...


 
How is this a generalization?

All I am doing is stating the facts of what happened and that I have never seen it at any other resort, can it happen? probably, has it happened?, not that I have seen or heard. 

I think a comp would sooth me a bit better, perhaps even just a free drink or food voucher. I have never had to write to a resort with a complaint so it's a new experience for me.

No molatov's where involved, but tossing snowballs at people operating a ski lift isn't the safest idea either.


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## 2knees (Mar 10, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> Yesterday's experience only goes to prove to me why I choose to drive 4-5 hours to ski at Sugarloaf/Saddleback rather than take the easy way out and drive two hours for Mount Snow.
> 
> It's a completly different type of crowd in Maine vs Vermont, especially in Southern Vermont.
> 
> Perhaps we will ski Mount Snow again in late March/ Early April when most of the riff/raff is gone.





loafer89 said:


> How is this a generalization?




that sounds like a generalization to me. 

i'm not trying to argue with you.  you're entitled to your opinion.  like i said, i'm sorry your son was stuck in the middle of it with you.


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## Euler (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm a regular skier at Mt. Snow, and can say that I've never experienced anything like that (snowball fight) at the ski area in the 5 or so years I've been skiing there.  I think Kelly's response was honest and appropriate.  Loafer89, you went from saying:



> ...	I sent Mount Snow an E-mail describing what happened. I doubt they care very much and it will be interesting to see if I get any response...



to receiving a quick, reasonable response and then dismissing the response as BS.

You're entitled to decide you don't want to ski at an area because of the "feel", the clientele, the "vibe", or whatever else, but it's not cool to publicly denigrate the mountain staff when they did a good job responding to the problem.  Of course, it remains to be seen how they follow through with the "security" measures they promised, but I think Mt. Snow will do a LOT of work to ensure that turning Carinthia into "freestyle land" does not prevent the resort as a whole from staying family friendly.


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## Newpylong (Mar 11, 2009)

Sorry but I don't need facts. I have been a Mount Snow passholder for roughly 15 years until this year (moved out of the area). What you witnessed is not typical behavior and should not be generalized as so (which you clearly are doing). Furthermore, if you believe the reply to your email was "standard BS" then I am not sure what you are looking for. It seemed very honest to me and exactly what I would have been looking for had that happened to me... 





loafer89 said:


> Actually I have skied quite alot at Mount Snow in the past, so you should not make assumptions based on facts you don't have. What happened on sunday was outrageous and has never happened at any ski resort I have been to and I have visited better than 100 of them over nearly 30 years of skiing.
> 
> I have NEVER, EVER had anything even remotely close to this happen at Sugarloaf, nearly 100% of the folks I have meet have been extra friendly and mild mannered.
> 
> ...


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## loafer89 (Mar 11, 2009)

Newpylong said:


> Sorry but I don't need facts. I have been a Mount Snow passholder for roughly 15 years until this year (moved out of the area). What you witnessed is not typical behavior and should not be generalized as so (which you clearly are doing). Furthermore, if you believe the reply to your email was "standard BS" then I am not sure what you are looking for. It seemed very honest to me and exactly what I would have been looking for had that happened to me...


 

What else can I say, your my hero, I am wrong and you are right.

Long live Mount Snowball


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## loafer89 (Mar 11, 2009)

Euler said:


> I'm a regular skier at Mt. Snow, and can say that I've never experienced anything like that (snowball fight) at the ski area in the 5 or so years I've been skiing there. I think Kelly's response was honest and appropriate. Loafer89, you went from saying:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

What "good job" did they do? It took them at least 10 minutes to respond to an incident that occured maybe 100' away from the base lodge at Carinthia.

The response to my letter was quick, but it basically explains that they where unprepared for an event that they had to have scheduled way in advance.

It was not my intent to denigrate any of the staff.


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## Newpylong (Mar 12, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> What else can I say, your my hero, I am wrong and you are right.
> 
> Long live Mount Snowball




I think this response summarizes pretty much how unreasonable you are. Stick to Maine.


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## loafer89 (Mar 12, 2009)

Yes sir, no problem, glad to oblige. I like Maine better anyway.


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## skiing is life (Mar 12, 2009)

loafer89 said:


> The snowball fight was most certainly in the lift maze for the Nitro Express. The lifty even came out fairly aggresively and stated "what you think I am afraid of a snowball" after being hit several times and chasing down one person that hit him.
> 
> It was 100% out of control B.S that I was ashamed to be around with my son.



oh come on...that was one of the best snowball fights ive ever been in


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## Glenn (Mar 16, 2009)

I debated bumping this thread. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse or dump salt in the wound. 

Yesterday, my wife and I were in line for the Nitro Express for Carinthia. It wasn't particularly crowded late afternoon, so we could see everyone in line. A younger guy started making a snowball. The young lady running the line/ticket scanner prompty walked over and authoritatively stated: "Drop the snowball, or I pull your pass." The kid replied: "What?" She said again: "Drop the snowball or I take your pass." He then dropped the snowball. So based on seeing/hearing that, I'd say they've made some policy/operational changes.


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## Euler (Mar 16, 2009)

glenn said:


> i debated bumping this thread. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse or dump salt in the wound.
> 
> Yesterday, my wife and i were in line for the nitro express for carinthia. It wasn't particularly crowded late afternoon, so we could see everyone in line. A younger guy started making a snowball. The young lady running the line/ticket scanner prompty walked over and authoritatively stated: "drop the snowball, or i pull your pass." the kid replied: "what?" she said again: "drop the snowball or i take your pass." he then dropped the snowball. So based on seeing/hearing that, i'd say they've made some policy/operational changes.



nice!


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