# Colorado Ski Guide



## skiNEwhere (Aug 9, 2014)

This is something I've been working on for a little while. These already exist in bits and pieces, but not to my liking and not encompassing all of this. It's still a work in progress and I hadn't had a chance to ski everywhere in CO, I'll add more if people find this to be of use.(Vail, Beaver Creek, Aspen, El Dora, Breck, Copper, Winter Park, Steamboat) Please provide feedback, whether it be about content, editing style, ease of reading, or something else.

Traveling from Denver: If you're heading to the mountain's you'll want to leave Friday at or before 3-4PM, or you'll be stuck in I-70 ski traffic. Yes, there is horrible traffic created just by the sheer volume of people going skiing. Or you can take the colorado mountain express or Summit Express

*Arapahoe Basin*

Rating: 8 out of 10
Lodging: 15 minutes away in Keystone.
Après-ski: 6th alley bar on site, Keystone 15 minutes away. 
Bus: The SummitStage offers FREE travel within Summit County, which is beneficial if you are staying at a hotel in the area. 
Distance from Denver: 64 miles. About 70-80 minute trip dependent on weather and traffic. 

Snow Quality: A-Basin has primarily N/NE exposure (Zuma Bowl is S/SW exposure) so this combined with the base and peak elevation keeps the snow around longer. It’s almost always the last ski area to close in the state, if not the country! A typical season runs from Mid-October to Mid to Late May!

Crowds and Price: Due to the lack of “amenities” and its small size (relative to nearby ski resorts), this place does not get overly crowded on the weekends, unlike its much larger counterparts. A lift ticket for the 2014-2015 season is only $45.99 if you purchase ahead of time, $67 if you purchase at the counter. Not bad!

Parking: Free and within walking distance (No bus required unless you're on the upper lot, only a 2 minute ride)

There are 2 separate ways to get here.
·       Option A: Take I-70W through the Eisenhower tunnel down the steep 7% downgrade to the town of Silverthorne. Got off on exit 205 and take your very first left which will be route 6 eastbound, past the town Keystone to get to the ski area. Other than the steep downgrade on the interstate this is generally an easier route with less turns.

·       Option B: Take I-70W to the last exit before the tunnel (exit 216). You'll pass directly under chair 5 of Loveland Ski area and drive up twisty route 6 westbound to the top off Loveland pass, just shy of 12,000 ft. elevation. You should be able to see A-Basin once you get about one to two miles pass the top. This route is 10 minutes faster than route A, but not for those who get nervous because of heights. There are portions of the road near the pass that have a 35-40 degree drop-off and no guardrails. If the weather gets bad, CDOT is quick to shut down the road but you may be stuck on the road while it is in the process of being closed. The only downside is that HAZMAT vehicles trailers are mandated by law to use this pass instead of the tunnel, so there is a chance you may get stuck behind one of these. 

Overview: A-Basin (for short) as it is often called skips all the "overhead" that is typically added to Colorado ski resorts and cuts to the chase, just great skiing. There are no condos, gold courses, or nightlife slopeside so to speak of, but this can be found in the town of Keystone, which is only 15 minutes away. Check groupon for good deals that will surface from time to time. A-Basin almost always has the longest season in the state, often over 200 days!

·       If you're a beginner, there are only 5 green trails, so you may want to ski at nearby Breckenridge if you are looking for more easy terrain. Note that the green slope *Sundance* is pretty steep and would probably be a blue at any other resort.
·       Experts will love the Pallavicini trail complex, as this has a great deal of double blacks that are steep, have bumps, glades, or a combination of all three. Personally I think the trail *Gauthier *is the hardest trail in this group, it is about 45 degrees with trees!
·       The Pallavicini trail is a fun, steep, wide, bump trail.
·       The top of West Turbo is a rocky, tough trail overall. Don’t use your nice skis  
·       The East wall offers terrific hike-to terrain, but the summit is almost 13,000 ft. If you are coming from sea level, you may want to get acclimated because even the most fit of skiers can get winded and/or altitude sickness if they try to ski it the first day. 1st Notch, as it is called, offers a 45 degree slope and is about 10-15 feet wide at its narrowest point. 
·       The Montezuma (or Zuma) Bowl is a great area to ski right after a big dump. If you don't get first tracks, head to the furthest skiers left you can take from the top of the Zuma lift and you may be able to find freshies, as there is a lot of a traverse involved that keeps some of the crowds away.
o   At the bottom, you'll find "hike-back" terrain that keeps powder fresh for a longer period, since you'll need to hike back up the base of the Zuma lift.
The Negative: High altitude can be hardest on skiers than other nearby ski resorts. Only one High Speed Quad. Lenawee lift can be a long ride, especially since the top 1/3 is completely exposed to the wind causing it to run at a slower speed sometimes. The East Wall, which is revered by locals, takes a long time to fill in, it usually doesn’t open up until late February in a good year, March most years.

Backcountry: There is an area known as "The Beavers" that you can legally access from the top of the Pallavicini lift through the BC gates. It's steep, and rocky, and very avalanche prone. I mention it because you may see people skiing/boarding down it from US Route 6. If you DO try this, make sure you either know what the hell you are doing or take someone with you that has a clue. Besides, A-Basin has it in their Master Development plan to incorporate this into their ski area so you'll be able to ski it whenever that happens (Hopefully in the next 3-5 years)

Misc: If you ski here in October when they first open, expect to wait a half an hour in line, for like only 1-3 open, overcrowded runs.

*Loveland*

Rating: 7 out of 10
Lodging: 15 minutes away in Georgetown or Silverthorne.
Apres-ski: None on site, 15 minutes away in Silverthorne.
Bus: Only to get from Loveland Basin to Loveland Valley
Distance from Denver: 56 miles, 50 to 60 minutes depending on weather and traffic. Take I-70 to exit 216, you can’t miss it, although if you’re not paying attention, you’ll miss the exit and have to drive 10 miles to Silverthorne to turn around so keep your eyes open!

Snow Quality: Loveland has exposure in every direction except for the West. Since Loveland sits on the Continental Divide, it gets the storms that hit summit county but also picks up the storms that hit the front range and Denver area that mostly miss resorts in Summit county. The winds on peak 9 sometimes blow wind from the western side of the continental divide onto the eastern side, so they’ll be powder even if hasn’t snowed in a couple of days. Of course, the exact opposite happens sometimes as well.

Crowds and Prices:  Crowds? What’s that? I skied Loveland on the President’s Day weekend and never waited more than 2 minutes. You will not find crowds here. Period. The price is a very reasonable $61. There are many kiosks scattered through Colorado where you can buy a discounted lift ticket (Not sure of the exact discount, I think it’s in the 40’s). Click here for locations. 

Parking: Free (No Bus Required). If you do get to Loveland late on a busy day though, the main parking lot will be full and you’ll have to park at the Loveland Valley Parking lot (Smaller, geared towards intermediates) and take 2 minute ride to the main Loveland Basin ski area. 

Overview: While it’s hard to call Loveland a little known ski resort, it’s definitely not appreciated as much as I think it should be. I like to joke that “There’s no love for Loveland.” I remember asking some people from my office if they wanted to ski there, and they just kind of rolled their eyes like “Why would I want to ski there”? Their loss.  Also like A-Basin, Loveland has no amenities (actually, even less), or even a high speed lift. This place is VERY popular with locals, who will swear by it like it’s the only true skiing left in the state. Loveland is the closest ski area to Denver  since Echo Mtn is now private, and very easy to get it. Loveland and A-Basin often compete to be the first ski area to open. Loveland always seems to close the first week in May, regardless of snow, not sure why.

·       Beginners will find a nice assortment of terrain to begin to learn in the Loveland Valley side, which has some nice greens and moderate blue’s to work up to. 
·       Advanced/Expert skiers will enjoy the terrain off of chair 1 and chair 9. Chair 1 has some pretty nice steeps. *Over the Rainbow* has some sustained steeps for about 1000 ft. It’s hard to say how steep it is since it always has huge moguls on it, but I’ll venture to say its around 35 degrees.o   Note: This is the Eastern edge of the ski area, and you’ll be right against the ski area boundary. You may be tempted to duck the ropes, but don’t. You’ll head into an area knows as the 7 Sisters which is extremely avalanche prone. So just don’t do it.​·       *Avalanche bowl* offers some nice steeps around 37 degrees.
·       There are some nice, unmarked gladed areas in here. That’s all I’m gonna say 
·       Chair 9 takes you to the top of Loveland and the Continental Divide. From here, the views are pretty amazing. You can see clearly see Breckenridge in the distance and parts of Keystone. This lift is very exposed to the wind and often subject to closure. This is a great area to ski open bowls on powder days.
o   *Patrol bowl* offers Loveland's steepest terrain, at over 41 degrees. 
o   There is a free snow cat that operates Wednesday through Sunday. But you *MUST* get a free pass from the ticket office or no ride for you.

·       Chairs 2 and 6 takes you to access a bunch of nice groomed blue trails that any intermediate skier should enjoy. Personally I loathe chair 2, it is very long and very slow. I timed it this season, it was over 13 minutes with no stops, which rarely happens. With stops it’s usually about 15 minutes. I’d only use it to get to chair 9. Thankfully it has a mid-unload station so you can limit the agony. 
·       Chair 8 is my favorite chair. It’s the furthest away, and hardest to get to, therefore it’s also the least used. And it holds powder for a long time. There was one day this season I went over there and stayed over there most of the day and was able to find fresh tracks the whole time I was there. Definitely a hidden gem. *Hook Em’ Horns* is one of my favorites in that area. East Ropes is a nice, steep gladed trail, but it does take a lot of snow to open up and it is very short.

The Negative: No High Speed Lifts. The portion of chair 2 above treeline, and chair 9 are very exposed to the wind. Both of those factors do keep crowds down though. Chair 9 has frequent wind holds, some days it may not even open at all. If you’re looking for a gourmet lunch, you’ll be disappointed. Just like A-Basin, altitude is more of a factor than other ski areas. 

Misc: Loveland really goes out of the way for people who bring their own lunch. They have microwaves for you heat up your food and filtered water and cups to use.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2014)

Very nice.  I'm looking forward to more....

I concur with your comments on Loveland.  My visit there in 2010 was a lot of fun.  Though it was early December, the conditions were awesome.  I also hated Lift 2....seemed like you could avoid it by hitting Lift 1 and heading over to Lift 6 or cross-over to Lift 4 (maybe?)  Lift 1 had some pretty steep stuff and I loved it.  Having just come from early-season machine made snow cruisers in Vermont to this was a real big adjustment, but it tasted pretty good.  It got my adrenaline going for sure...steep and deep.  I can see how if you went to far to skier's right how you'd be in trouble.  

The place was really Jekyl and Hyde on my two days there...the Thursday was amazing blue bird and cool temps.  Friday was snow and high winds...we were probably the only ones to ride up Lift 9 and it honestly sucked.  It was like being on Mount Washington during a hurricane.  Nice mix of trees and open areas.  

The bag lunch comment was interesting.  I read before my visit that Loveland was VERY anti-brown baggers.  That was not my experience at all.  I found the staff to be really, really friendly and laid back.  It really had a MRG vibe to the place...locals and low key.  Overall some good blue terrain everywhere it seemed.  Nothing really crazy like at Alta-Snowbird, but an enjoyable place to ski.  The fixed grips were decent...older Yans and Pomas, but all well cared for and decent (except the slow Lift 2).  

Very odd layout with the highway right in the middle of it and the tunnel.  70 was an interesting drive...windy in places.  The second day that nasty blizzard made for interesting driving...especially returning to DEN in a cheap rental with summer tires.  

We were looking at Denver as a place to move to.  So I was checking out resorts to "move to".  I had mixed feelings about Loveland...as you said, folks don't give it much love.  And, though I had a great time, I felt as if I'd get bored with it and that I'd be settling for it because it was the closest to Denver.  I was really disappointed with Denver.  Sprawl, bad traffic, no good access to the mountains, and it was just not what we expected.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2014)

The TR without pics...for some odd reason....

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/88310-Loveland-CO-December-9-2010?highlight=Loveland


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## Smellytele (Aug 11, 2014)

Great descriptions. No driving directions for Loveland and in this day and age just and address usually suffices or a google maps (or similar) link. What would be considered a 10 out of 10 or below a 5 out of 10?


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## Nick (Aug 11, 2014)

Very cool. 

If you want to expand this i can maybe find some non-forum page to permanently host this.


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## St. Bear (Aug 11, 2014)

Here's a pic from Loveland from this past year.  Chairs 9 & 4.


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 11, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> What would be considered a 10 out of 10 or below a 5 out of 10?



That's something I need to work on, because right now the rankings are purely subjective.

For example, when I do winter park, they will rank very highly, due to their abundance of bumps. If you look at their yelp review all the 5 star, but also the 1 and 2 star negative review mentions the same thing: bumps. So clearly it's a preference thing.

I'm thinking maybe I can break up the rating further into 5 indisputable categories/metrics from 0 to 2, and add them up. Amount of snow, ease of access, price, crowds, and diversity of terrain. 

Or since most AZ'ers are advanced skiers to begin with, I can add a disclaimer at the beginning stating the reviews are geared toward that.

Aspen Highlands would be a resort I want to give 10/10. They just had a really cool vibe and awesome skiing, but according to my metrics, I should give them a 0 zero on price because not only are they expensive, it's very difficult to find liftopia deals for them.

I can't think of a resort I'd give lower than a 5 or 6. Maybe Vail since they are expensive, flat, crowded, and not exceedingly difficult


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## Smellytele (Aug 11, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> That's something I need to work on, because right now the rankings are purely subjective.
> 
> For example, when I do winter park, they will rank very highly, due to their abundance of bumps. If you look at their yelp review all the 5 star, but also the 1 and 2 star negative review mentions the same thing: bumps. So clearly it's a preference thing.
> 
> ...



Maybe break it up to grade 1-10 for price, terrain, crowd, lift system, vibe - etc. Then average it out.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2014)

I went to Aspen/Snowmass last month for a convention.  All I can say is wow.  Highlands does look cool and I'd ski there.  Snowmass looks like the Sugarloaf of the West.  That is one HUGE mother mountain.  I really want to ski there....

Buttermilk--meh.  Maybe worth a day.  

Aspen reminded me of a bigger Cranmore.  Interesting steep terrain.  But I have no idea where one parks to ski Aspen.


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 11, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I went to Aspen/Snowmass last month for a convention.  All I can say is wow.  Highlands does look cool and I'd ski there.  Snowmass looks like the Sugarloaf of the West.  That is one HUGE mother mountain.  I really want to ski there....
> 
> Buttermilk--meh.  Maybe worth a day.
> 
> Aspen reminded me of a bigger Cranmore.  Interesting steep terrain.  But I have no idea where one parks to ski Aspen.



Yea, buttermilk is geared towards either beginners, or those skiers/riders who enjoy hitting 40+ ft kickers and a superpipe :-o There's a reason the X-games is held there.

I've heard there are a few good runs off of Tiehack, that's about it though. It's hard to justify going there. Deals for Aspen are very hard to come by, and considering Aspen is 3 hours away from me, I'd want to ski any other aspen resort considering the price and distance. I got a lift ticket for $93 last season, and that was WITH a discount. (Add $5 if you don't have their RFID card)

Parking in Aspen is a work in progress.....last time I was at AH, I was prepared to pay in the garage and but there was a sign up that said "today is free parking day." Completely random, but I'll take it.


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## jaytrem (Aug 11, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Yea, buttermilk is geared towards either beginners, or those skiers/riders who enjoy hitting 40+ ft kickers and a superpipe :-o There's a reason the X-games is held there.
> 
> I've heard there are a few good runs off of Tiehack, that's about it though. It's hard to justify going there. Deals for Aspen are very hard to come by, and considering Aspen is 3 hours away from me, I'd want to ski any other aspen resort considering the price and distance. I got a lift ticket for $93 last season, and that was WITH a discount. (Add $5 if you don't have their RFID card)



The guide is good stuff, makes me want to go skiing.

One good thing about checking out Buttermilk is that you don't have to commit to a full day there.  You can ski there for as long as you want then take a short bus ride to any of the three other Aspen areas and your lift ticket is good.


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## snoseek (Aug 11, 2014)

This is a great write up.

Skied well over 200 days at Loveland between 07-10. Chair 4 has some good stuff also, although a bit short. If the weather is right then chair 9 is worth riding all day IMO. A little hiking goes a long way. I miss 225 daily beer specials downstairs in the bar. 

As for brown bagging I used to bring a piece of salmon layered on thin sliced potatos, green beans, shallot, butter and wine. Wrap the whole stack in parchment, then foil, drop it in the upper chamber or the Oregon stove in the rock house, ski a few runs then come back and eat lunch with a pocket beer...followed by that Colorado kind. Or theres those grills with propane tanks if feeling more ambitious.


And then there's Telluride....


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## catsup948 (Aug 11, 2014)

Loveland Pass itself is very fun to ski from either side.  Someone is always willing to give you a ride and show you around.  My first "backcountry" experience out west.


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 11, 2014)

catsup948 said:


> Loveland Pass itself is very fun to ski from either side.  Someone is always willing to give you a ride and show you around.  My first "backcountry" experience out west.



+1. The first time I skied the pass was this year, May 11th, there was almost 2 feet of untouched snow in some places and it kept snowing heavily the entire day. There is some avy danger but it's much lower than surrounding areas due to fact that cdot blasts it and skiers pack it down daily.

It's also a great way to meet people


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## snoseek (Aug 11, 2014)

You can exit the ski area via the gate/hike above chair 1, ski the back, cross the road and come out down at the valley, no hitching needed and can be good for a lap or two.

When things are unstable it can be deadly up there


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## jimk (Aug 12, 2014)

Nick said:


> Very cool.
> 
> If you want to expand this i can maybe find some non-forum page to permanently host this.



Does AlpineZone have a resorts review section like some other sites?  I think it's quite valuable to hear comments like this from knowledgeable and trustworthy forum members instead of from random newbs or a biased source.
I concur with everything SkiNEwhere said.  Did he mention the fairly long tunnel you can sometimes ski through to go under Interstate 70 to return to base lodge from Chair 8/Zip Basin?  I have two and six days at A-Basin and Loveland respectively and don't know them nearly as well as he does, but well enough to suggest they offer some of the better low cost/anti-resort skiing in America


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 12, 2014)

Great writeup! I'm jonesing!


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## skiNEwhere (Aug 12, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Maybe break it up to grade 1-10 for price,  terrain, crowd, lift system, vibe - etc. Then average it out.



I  like that, I think I'll either do that or add them up to say something  like "Resort X is 84 out of 100." If I do the latter though, each resort  will need the exact same criteria, which it probably should anyways for continuity



snoseek said:


> Or theres those grills with propane tanks if feeling more ambitious.



Did not realize that you could grill



jimk said:


> Does AlpineZone have a resorts review section like  some other sites?  I think it's quite valuable to hear comments like  this from knowledgeable and trustworthy forum members instead of from  random newbs or a biased source.
> I concur with everything SkiNEwhere said.  Did he mention the fairly  long tunnel you can sometimes ski through to go under Interstate 70 to  return to base lodge from Chair 8/Zip Basin?  I have two and six days at  A-Basin and Loveland respectively and don't know them nearly as well as  he does, but well enough to suggest they offer some of the better low  cost/anti-resort skiing in America:smile:



Thanks  for the feedback. I did not mention the tunnel, I'll have to add that.  I've never skied through it or seen anyone do it either. The snow only  builds up in there gradually with residual snow that falls off of  peoples skis or boards, so it takes a while. There were some bare spots when I went through and I just bought new skis so I didn't want to scratch them up. I think it's pretty cool that you can ski under a frickin' interstate!



MadMadWorld said:


> Great writeup! I'm jonesing!



The jonesing is what's been making me want to write this. It's a chicken-egg scenario lol



Nick said:


> Very cool.
> 
> If you want to expand this i can maybe find some non-forum page to permanently host this.



That would be cool. I think I need to break up the review a little better though. I wrote this in MS Word and hoped the bullets and formatting would stay the same when I copied it over, but it didn't so personally I think it's kind of hard to read. If there is a dedicated page for unofficial guides or whatever you want to call it, I should probably add pics to break up the monotony of words. To add to what jimk said there should probably be a place for comments too, because no matter how unbiased you try to make something, if there is one author, bias may develop.


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## Nick (Aug 13, 2014)

jimk said:


> Does AlpineZone have a resorts review section like some other sites?  I think it's quite valuable to hear comments like this from knowledgeable and trustworthy forum members instead of from random newbs or a biased source.
> I concur with everything SkiNEwhere said.  Did he mention the fairly long tunnel you can sometimes ski through to go under Interstate 70 to return to base lodge from Chair 8/Zip Basin?  I have two and six days at A-Basin and Loveland respectively and don't know them nearly as well as he does, but well enough to suggest they offer some of the better low cost/anti-resort skiing in America



I would like to add this in. WE have trip reports but they aren't tied to the resorts section of the site (yet). I've been wanting to make that connection a little stronger.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 13, 2019)

Does anyone know if there is a similar forum site like this(alpinezone) in Colorado?  I am skiing out there in December and then in January.  Ever since Epicski went down you can't find much info for forums in those areas?


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 13, 2019)

some of the local subreddits are alright. r/skiing is hit or miss.


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## jimk (Nov 14, 2019)

nhskier1969 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a similar forum site like this(alpinezone) in Colorado?  I am skiing out there in December and then in January.  Ever since Epicski went down you can't find much info for forums in those areas?



A lot of posters migrated from Epic Ski to Pug Ski dot com, including many CO locals.


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## pauldotcom (Nov 18, 2019)

Abasin and Loveland are fantastic. I recommend Loveland on the drive from the airport. They sell cheap 4 hour tickets. There is some pretty steep stuff that will pucker you up!

A couple of CRAZY GOOD resorts not mentioned often - Copper & Winterpark. Lodging is usually pretty cheap; last time we stayed in a condo with a mountain view at both - and I'm pretty frugal!

Copper has lots a good, steep terrain everywhere. Easy to find some good stuff. Winterpark, on the other hand, isn't super steep but the Mary Jane section is spectacular. Great glades and bumps! There is also a pretty sick bowl in the back that you can access via groomer wagon. I guess that's what it's called.. 

Anyone has questions about either of these resorts, I'd be happy to discuss. I'm also a huge fan of Breck/Vail. I know, pretty popular spots, but Breck has some fantastic, steep, open bowls up top.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 18, 2019)

yes, copper and winterpark are not mentioned often. the two major colorado unlimited season pass options on ikon. nothing to see here. ::facepalm::

and your analysis is ass backwards. copper is flat and boring. winter park (mary jane) is steep and fun.


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## pauldotcom (Nov 18, 2019)

And you are a dick.


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## gregnye (Nov 18, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and your analysis is ass backwards. copper is flat and boring. winter park (mary jane) is steep and fun.



This comes up everytime Copper is mentioned and I disagree every time. Copper has the better steep alpine skiing (so above treeline/bowls). Mary Jane is steep, but it's not above tree line (which is why most people go west).

So for me Copper>Winter Park

Luckily now you can use IKON for A-Basin, so you don't have to choose between just two


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 18, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> *copper is flat and boring*



How many days have you skied there?    

I've skied there a grand total of 1 day in my entire life, and I know that isnt true.  Boring?  Really?

Seems like a weird flex, especially from an east coaster.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 18, 2019)

the above treeline terrain at copper gets manky and skied out very quickly, and none of it has sustained vertical more than ~500-800 feet. they did add a chair on tucker this year, which improves access, but again, its like 750 vertical. mary jane has far more interesting steep skiing, albeit not above treeline. you are right that a-basin is better than both of them.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 18, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> How many days have you skied there?
> 
> I've skied there a grand total of 1 day in my entire life, and I know that isnt true.  Boring?  Really?
> 
> Seems like a weird flex, especially from an east coaster.




maybe 20 days lifetime, including 10+ over the past 3 years. its no flex, its just probably my least favorite skiing in colorado (comparing to winter park, a-basin, vail, breck, keystone, silverton, beaver creek, steamboat - i think thats everywhere ive skied in co). i'd actually put copper above steamboat bc steamboat is really really intermediate. a-basin and silverton are tops for me. i'm sure crested butte and telluride have what i am after, i just havent been. 

yes, that map looks like there are a lot of cool above treeline hits. but as i said right above, its all short and gets skied out fast. no sustained vertical on steep and above treeline terrain there. and union meadows is literally flat. the enchanted forest stuff is fun, but again, super short vertical before you hit the run out.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 18, 2019)

I just cant bring myself to criticize virtually any major west coast property when I'm skiing Plattekill, Smuggs, and Jay Peak most days in a ski season.  

It's like when people say, _"Park City / Canyons BLOWS man!!!!!"_ ---- uhhhh, yeah, I'd DREAM to be able to ski PC/Canyons 25 days a season.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 18, 2019)

lol. i mean yea, its all obviously relative. but if i had the option to ski any of those summit/grand/eagle county places, copper would probably be my last choice (i only say probably bc vail is pretty damn tame too). i am copper'd out after the past few years. you really should check out a-basin if you havent. the new terrain (beavers and steep gullies) made the best even better.

and park city/canyons does blow! again, relatively. it's better than windham, but it sure as shit isnt even close to alta/snowbird


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 18, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> you really should check out a-basin if you havent. the new terrain (beavers and steep gullies) made the best even better.



I've been (not with the new terrain though), but I preferred Loveland of the 2 right in that area.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 18, 2019)

i haven't skied loveland, but basin is dreamy. palli reminds me of wildcat at alta and the single chair at mad - these may be my three favorite lifts in the world. zuma has great open steep cornicey slopes. east wall has the big mountain hikeables. and now with beavers and gullies there is just tons of new chutey skiing and endless trees.


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## abc (Nov 18, 2019)

Keystone better than Copper? Yeah, right!

For intermediate groomer skiers, that is.


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## Zand (Nov 18, 2019)

Count me in to the Winter Park >>> Copper crew. 

Thats not to say I didnt have fun at Copper. But you need to hit the above treeline stuff right after a snowfall or it gets manked out because it all faces south. Theres some good stuff off Super Bee but a lot of east coast icy groomers as well. The entire lookers right 2/3rds of the resort is Stratton west, including Union Meadows.

Winter Park almost has a Smuggs like quality to it. Sure it kind of has an east coast feel to it being mostly below treeline but it really is like Smuggs and Jay on steroids.

Looking forward to finally getting to A-Basin this year, as well as checking out the new back bowl lift at Copper and returning to Winter Park.


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## abc (Nov 19, 2019)

Winter Park, Copper, Breck, Keystone... those are all "2nd tire" mountains of the west. Even by Colorado standards, they aren't quite at the same league as Aspen, AB, Vail (yes, Vail!), Beaver Creek.

Sure, on a powder day, all of them are freaking fantastic. And being in Colorado, chance of happening upon powder days are quite good. (that being the main reason for traveling to Colorado over the rest of the west)

But during any lure between storms. They don't have the heart stopping steep of AB, Aspen Highland. Or the wide open space of Vail/Beaver Creek to roam around.

Sure, each mountain has its niches. So which is "better" than the other are entirely personal preference. It's like arguing which brand of frozen fish taste better when you live in the desert.  

Being mostly tourist destinations, all of them have their groomers scraped off more than usual. I dislike Keystone the most in that regard. Despite having often untouched trees, its groomers are often in the worst shape, uncharacteristic for mountain of the west. But guess what? I ski there too. And had fun too.


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## jimk (Nov 19, 2019)

This is a fun discussion.  I've been a fan of CO ski areas ever since I made a solo drive out there from VA in 1976 when I was a college senior on spring break.  That spring I skied Vail, Aspen and Winter Park including opening season for Mary Jane.  I like them all and have skied just about every major ski destination in CO except Purgatory, Wolf Creek and Silverton.  In fact, I've never met a ski area I didn't like - East or West.  Just some I like more than others:razz:  I can and have skied a good small (1000' vert) eastern mountain for three weeks straight and had a blast.

If I were to rank all the CO mtns I've been to, I'd probably have to put the four Aspen mtns at the top as a destination.  Just can't go wrong with the skiing and apres-skiing all there in close proximity.  Next maybe Breckenridge.  I have about ten days at Breck since 2015 during all times of the winter and never really had a bad day despite big crowds at times.  Just go high, wide and steep, and stay up there all day.  The hike-to alpine bowls at Breck are just as big as Vail's back bowls, but with better snow, steeper fall lines, and way fewer people.  A-Basin might be number three.  Great scenery, great steeps, great skiers, and a less touristy vibe.

I could go on about all the others.  They all can be great with a little patience and exploration.  The CO places I might rank lower are only because I don't have as many days there to figure them out.:smile:


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2019)

ah, you reminded me, i've been to ajax highlands and snowmass, but left them off my list. i'd rank those highlands over snowmass over ajax, and in general i'd put all 3 above everything in summit/eagle/grand counties, except for a-basin.


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## abc (Nov 19, 2019)

We've also left out Telluride, Crested Butte, Silverton. 

I've not fully explore any of them. I suspect some of them may potentially upset the "ranking"... 

But then again, they maybe more on the niche-y side, albeit more expert oriented.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 19, 2019)

Only skied Telluride in Colorado but I was more impressed with the scenery and the actual town than the skiing. I didn't do any extreme stuff though just whatever was near the lifts. You know your trip out west probably wasn't worth the time and energy when locals ask you where you're from and you start talking up places like Jay Peak and Sugarloaf out east (and they couldn't give a shit)

Next time I ski Colorado it will probably be Steamboat or Crested Butte. That said will probably get to Oregon(Bachelor) or Montana before returning to CO.

Enjoyed the skiing in Tahoe > Telluride. I'm not a "big mountain skier" though. I like trees and narrow stuff. And not the kind of trees at Telluride where they are very widely spaced out tall pine trees.


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## Hawk (Nov 19, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> I went to Aspen/Snowmass last month for a convention.  All I can say is wow.  Highlands does look cool and I'd ski there.  Snowmass looks like the Sugarloaf of the West.  That is one HUGE mother mountain.  I really want to ski there....
> 
> Buttermilk--meh.  Maybe worth a day.
> 
> Aspen reminded me of a bigger Cranmore.  Interesting steep terrain.  But I have no idea where one parks to ski Aspen.



I skied at Aspen last year TB and you are right.  Highlands is where it is at.  So cool.  and if Highland bowl is open you should definitely hike that.  Snow mass is massive and good on a powder day.  I think there are day lots in town and buses.  Snowmass has parking right at the hill.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 19, 2019)

Zand said:


> Count me in to the Winter Park >>> Copper crew.
> 
> Thats not to say I didnt have fun at Copper. But you need to hit the above treeline stuff right after a snowfall or it gets manked out because it all faces south. Theres some good stuff off Super Bee but a lot of east coast icy groomers as well. The entire lookers right 2/3rds of the resort is Stratton west, including Union Meadows.
> 
> ...



Got the Ikon Pass this year, so planning a mid December trip to Winter Park.  Am  going to ski AB on the way out that day.  Then ski Winterpark for the next few days.  I am staying in Winter Park.  Is it worth it do day trip Copper while I am at winter Park?


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## abc (Nov 19, 2019)

nhskier1969 said:


> Is it worth it do day trip Copper while I am at winter Park?


No. 

Stick to one place, wherever that place is. 

Also, be careful about skiing AB on the first day. The top of AB is really high. If you're flying in on a morning flight and skiing right after landing, altitude could get you.


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## jimk (Nov 19, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Only skied Telluride in Colorado but I was more impressed with the scenery and the actual town than the skiing. I didn't do any extreme stuff though just whatever was near the lifts. You know your trip out west probably wasn't worth the time and energy when locals ask you where you're from and you start talking up places like Jay Peak and Sugarloaf out east (and they couldn't give a shit)
> 
> Next time I ski Colorado it will probably be Steamboat or Crested Butte. That said will probably get to Oregon(Bachelor) or Montana before returning to CO.
> 
> Enjoyed the skiing in Tahoe > Telluride. I'm not a "big mountain skier" though. I like trees and narrow stuff. And not the kind of trees at Telluride where they are very widely spaced out tall pine trees.



Here's a trip report covering Telluride and CB.  Loved 'em both.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/closing-week-at-telluride-and-crested-butte-april-2019.15144/

For advanced skiing when the snow is good, CB>Steam or MtB (although backside of MtB was otherworldly)

Funny thing about this thread, the OP from 2014 has moved to Utah!  SkiNEwhere - great guy.  Maybe he'll return to post his thoughts comparing CO skiing with UT skiing now that he knows a lot more about both??


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## deadheadskier (Nov 19, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ah, you reminded me, i've been to ajax highlands and snowmass, but left them off my list. i'd rank those highlands over snowmass over ajax, and in general i'd put all 3 above everything in summit/eagle/grand counties, except for a-basin.


Agreed on all points except I prefer Ajax to Snowmass.  Both suffer from poor lift placement that makes their better terrain areas a pain in the ass to lap.  This is more true at Snowmass though. 





Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2019)

abc said:


> No.
> 
> Stick to one place, wherever that place is.
> 
> Also, be careful about skiing AB on the first day. The top of AB is really high. If you're flying in on a morning flight and skiing right after landing, altitude could get you.



its not worth skiing copper, but the reason is bc copper sucks.

winter park and a-basin is a great trip. i'm bummed that basin is blacked out when i'll be out there over xmas.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Agreed on all points except I prefer Ajax to Snowmass.  Both suffer from poor lift placement that makes their better terrain areas a pain in the ass to lap.  This is more true at Snowmass though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



my main gripe with ajax was lift layout. i found myself back at the base gondola far too often, and found myself dropping into runs earlier than i would have liked, simply to avoid missing a lift. 

i really liked the hanging valley terrain at snowmass. this was about 13 years ago now so its certainly been a while and i'm a much stronger and smarter skier now. would like to go back but getting to/from and lodging for aspen is $$$$$


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## abc (Nov 19, 2019)

> its not worth skiing copper, but the reason is bc copper sucks..


There’s one poster on this board who never miss EVERY SINGLE opportunity to say Copper sucks. Did he get his skis stolen there? I don’t know. 

But this same poster had labeled MANY other mountains as “sucks”. So it goes to figure...


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2019)

ok gaper.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 19, 2019)

abc said:


> There’s one poster on this board who never miss EVERY SINGLE opportunity to say Copper sucks. Did he get his skis stolen there? I don’t know.
> 
> But this same poster had labeled MANY other mountains as “sucks”. So it goes to figure...



I am staying slodeside at WP, so is it worth it to drive to Copper for a day and then come back to WP?


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 19, 2019)

abc said:


> No.
> 
> Stick to one place, wherever that place is.
> 
> Also, be careful about skiing AB on the first day. The top of AB is really high. If you're flying in on a morning flight and skiing right after landing, altitude could get you.



https://gph.is/1qSfRhX


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2019)

In my highly opinionated opinion, no. Not for copper. Route 40 from i70 to winter park is a winding switchbacky mountain road that is not fun to drive, especially in dark and/or weather. copper isn’t worth dealing with driving down 40. a-basin is worth it, but I would do a day or two at a-basin first and then head up to winter park for the rest of the time. cheap rooms near abay in Dillon frisco silverthorne. wp is off on its own.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 19, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ah, you reminded me, i've been to ajax highlands and snowmass, but left them off my list. i'd rank those highlands over snowmass over ajax, and in general i'd put all 3 above everything in summit/eagle/grand counties, except for a-basin.



Funny, I am going out to Aspen latter in the season.  But I've skied all over. Whistler, Jackson Hole, Snowbird, Revy etc.. But all my friends ask me what is my favorite resort and I tell them Aspen.  Aspen is a completely different mtn area than the above ones mentioned.  But there is just something about Aspen.


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## snoseek (Nov 19, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Only skied Telluride in Colorado but I was more impressed with the scenery and the actual town than the skiing. I didn't do any extreme stuff though just whatever was near the lifts. You know your trip out west probably wasn't worth the time and energy when locals ask you where you're from and you start talking up places like Jay Peak and Sugarloaf out east (and they couldn't give a shit)
> 
> Next time I ski Colorado it will probably be Steamboat or Crested Butte. That said will probably get to Oregon(Bachelor) or Montana before returning to CO.
> 
> Enjoyed the skiing in Tahoe > Telluride. I'm not a "big mountain skier" though. I like trees and narrow stuff. And not the kind of trees at Telluride where they are very widely spaced out tall pine trees.



I mean if you're going to telluride and not getting out hiking on gold hill you did it wrong.

With equal snow its one of my top 5 in the country. Its got some fantastic terrain and not a shitshow for a big mtn.

Im a big fan of the low key areas out there. I spent alot of my weekends last winter driving down to Powderhorn from alta to just relax. Man I had some of the best pow tree runs of my life there last winter. Fresh untracked till last chair. Also got a crazy good day at sundance. Beaver mtn was untracked all day as well. There's a shitload of fun low key areas all over worth checking out. They need the money...its a great experience


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## deadheadskier (Nov 19, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> my main gripe with ajax was lift layout. i found myself back at the base gondola far too often, and found myself dropping into runs earlier than i would have liked, simply to avoid missing a lift.
> 
> i really liked the hanging valley terrain at snowmass. this was about 13 years ago now so its certainly been a while and i'm a much stronger and smarter skier now. would like to go back but getting to/from and lodging for aspen is $$$$$


Right

As mentioned, the lift layout sucks for both.  At Snowmass I found that Hanging Valley and the Cirque were the only things all that interesting.  Both require two lifts to get to, traversing out to the goods, maybe 500-800 vertical of interesting terrain (Hanging Valley being much better of the two) then long run outs back to two lifts you have to ride to get back up and ski the short vertical.  At Ajax you can at least string together a pretty consisted pitched 3k verical worth of bumps if you go skiers right off the top.  I like the chutes that drop down from Ruthie's too. 

That all said, if I were to take a 7 day vacation in Aspen again, 5 days would be spent at Highlands.  That mountain is the shit.  I'm not typically an earn your turns guy, but Highlands bowl is well worth the effort.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## abc (Nov 19, 2019)

snoseek said:


> Im a big fan of the low key areas out there. I spent alot of my weekends last winter driving down to Powderhorn from alta to just relax. Man I had some of the best pow tree runs of my life there last winter. Fresh untracked till last chair. Also got a crazy good day at sundance. Beaver mtn was untracked all day as well. There's a shitload of fun low key areas all over worth checking out. They need the money...its a great experience


Speaking of low key mountains, I had fun at Monarch too. Back in the days before the proliferation of mega passes, if you grt an a-basin pass, you get a few days at Monarch. Another hidden gem.


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## abc (Nov 19, 2019)

nhskier1969 said:


> I am staying slodeside at WP, so is it worth it to drive to Copper for a day and then come back to WP?


Still no. 

Copper doesn’t suck. But it’s nothing special to worth going there and back from winter Park. Stay and enjoy wp


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## Los (Nov 19, 2019)

"ok gaper"? Wow. 

pauldotcom hit the nail on the head. Surprised it took him since February to figure that out. I'd also add "insufferable narcissist".


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## Zand (Nov 19, 2019)

If anything you could stay in Silverthorne for a few nights and hit A-Basin/Copper (both are ~10-15 miles from there) then stay at Winter Park for a few days. But no, you don't want to have to go to WP and back more than once. Gorgeous ride if the weather is nice (and it was both times I went over the pass) but I can't imagine what that's like during a storm (when it's not closed).


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## raisingarizona (Nov 20, 2019)

I think it would be totally worth it to visit Copper for a day. Why the heck not? You’re on vacation and exploring new places is pretty fun even if it doesn’t have the 80 footers with greasy smooth landers and mandatory 60 mph straight lines through rocks that Krusty requires for a decent ski experience and finds during his weekend trips to Camelback. But hey, we can’t all be as rad as that guy.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 20, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Right
> 
> As mentioned, the lift layout sucks for both.  At Snowmass I found that Hanging Valley and the Cirque were the only things all that interesting.  Both require two lifts to get to, traversing out to the goods, maybe 500-800 vertical of interesting terrain (Hanging Valley being much better of the two) then long run outs back to two lifts you have to ride to get back up and ski the short vertical.  At Ajax you can at least string together a pretty consisted pitched 3k verical worth of bumps if you go skiers right off the top.  I like the chutes that drop down from Ruthie's too.
> 
> ...



Reminds me of skiing anything steep at steamboat. Those laps burnt me out living there.


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## p_levert (Nov 20, 2019)

FWIW, I enjoy Kusty's posts and generally agree with his take on resorts.  As far as day-skiing Copper when you are based at WP, it all depends on whether or not you have been to Copper before.  There is always value in bagging a new resort.

Note that there are two different ways to get to Copper.  Assuming you're based in the town of WP, the fastest way is over Berthoud Pass and it takes around an hour and 15 minutes.  But you have to go over a high pass and then through the tunnel, also a PIA.  The alternative is to go in the other direction and avoid all passes (via beautiful Kremmling).  This is about a half hour slower, but still less than two hours, so very doable.


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## abc (Nov 20, 2019)

p_levert said:


> There is always value in bagging a new resort.


I don't agree with that. 

Mountains out west are big. The OP said he'll be out at WP for "a few days". Depending how "few" days he's there, it may be barely enough to find the good stuff in WP and MJ. 

And one day at Copper is really a waste. You won't get to find the good stuff in one single day. 

Unless, the OP got really unlucky and the opened terrain were really limited. And he got bored after a day or 2 at WP/MH. In that case, by all means do a day trip.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 20, 2019)

Thanks. I take umbrage with the “weekends at camelback” crack. Brother, it will be a real warm day in a cold climate when this here kid skis in Pennsylvania.

I don’t even ski southern vt unless it’s magic or free.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 20, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I don’t even ski southern vt unless it’s magic or free.



I think you dropped something


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## jaytrem (Nov 20, 2019)

abc said:


> I don't agree with that.



Diff'rent strokes...  I love checking out the little places.  Cooper/Copper, I have a good time at both.  

Just booked CO plane tickets last night.  Prices plummeted yesterday and the kids got good reviews at the parent teacher conference.  It's been quite a while since I've been to CO, maybe 10 years???  Figured this might be our only year with Ikon since Vail bought Mount Snow.  So we'll do all Ikon with maybe some Keystone and Echo night skiing.  Unfortunately no new places for me.  No way I see myself getting my minimum 10 new, so far only looking like Whitetail on the way to the in-laws, American Dream and June.  Early CO plan...

A-basin
Copper
4 days at Aspen areas
Steamboat
Winter Park
Eldora (then on the red eye)


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## abc (Nov 20, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Diff'rent strokes...  I love checking out the little places.  Cooper/Copper, I have a good time at both.
> 
> Eldora (then on the red eye)


Different strokes. 

I usually spend a week (or 3) in Colorado each year. I've yet to hit Eldora. 

The locals warn against it, siting traffic being an issue on weekends. I really haven't heard anything particularly special about it. It maybe small and unknown to the tourist, but it's not quiet due to its proximity to Denver.

Are you going to spend each of the 4 days at different mountains of Aspen?


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## jaytrem (Nov 20, 2019)

abc said:


> I usually spend a week (or 3) in Colorado each year. I've yet to hit Eldora.



Been there twice.  Once was a perfect spring bump day, real quite.  2nd was a powder day, slightly less quiet and fresh tracks all day.  But who knows, crowds might be bigger now.

Probably 1/2 day at Buttermilk.


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## p_levert (Nov 20, 2019)

abc said:


> Different strokes.
> 
> I usually spend a week (or 3) in Colorado each year. I've yet to hit Eldora.
> 
> The locals warn against it, siting traffic being an issue on weekends.



You need to upgrade your local contacts.  It's a nice, smallish ski area.  The drive up and down is easy, and a huge improvement over the sh*tshow on I70.  I like to ski there on the first day of a trip.  Friendly, relaxed place, minimal lift lines.  Trail map: https://skimap.org/data/508/3578/1561332566.pdf

There are two downsides to Eldora.  (1) It's windy, which can occasionally close lifts and screw up powder and (2) the parking lots occasionally fill up.  Not a problem after March 1.

Check it out, and, of course, bagging new ski areas is always good, which is how you find out about places like Eldora.


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## abc (Nov 20, 2019)

p_levert said:


> minimal lift lines.


That's not what I heard. Not on weekends. (typically when I'm flying in/out)



> The drive up and down is easy, and a huge improvement over the sh*tshow on I70.


I-70 is rarely an issue mid-week. 

In any case, I don't have to deal with I-70 as I have a place to crash at Silverthorne. So my reference point is different. 

The lack of motivation being, I haven't heard much about anything that's special about Eldora! Often times, a smaller place is preferred over a tourist destination for lack of crowds. But so far I heard that's NOT the case. 

I don't bag mountains for the sake of bagging mountains. I like to check out GOOD mountains off the beaten path. (Just as an example, there's a "small mountain" near my house I would NOT recommend people to "bag". Not because of the limited terrain. But because it's almost always mobbed by local kids! Good for the mountain, good for the skiing industry. But not so good for the "mountain baggers")


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## p_levert (Nov 20, 2019)

abc said:


> That's not what I heard. Not on weekends. (typically when I'm flying in/out)



Like I said, you need to upgrade your locals.  Ask these people if they have actually skied there.  I have, and almost always on a Saturday. Traffic and liftlines are not a problem.  Wind and parking limitations are occasionally an issue.

I think the large majority of skiers (70%?) like to bag new areas.  But we're a diverse bunch, so I guess you're in the 30%, or whatever it is.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 20, 2019)

p_levert said:


> Like I said, you need to upgrade your locals.  Ask these people if they have actually skied there.  I have, and almost always on a Saturday. Traffic and liftlines are not a problem.  Wind and parking limitations are occasionally an issue.
> 
> I think the large majority of skiers (70%?) like to bag new areas.  But we're a diverse bunch, so I guess you're in the 30%, or whatever it is.



Love it, found a thread labeled "I-70 Bitch Thread"
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/275353-OFFICIAL-I70-BITCH-THREAD/page290


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