# Hunter Mtn=EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## JimG. (Nov 20, 2012)

I have always defended my home mountain here and elsewhere...not one bad comment about Hunter would pass without me defending the place.

But no more...Hunter will not even try to open for Thanksgiving. Jiminy Peak is open for God's sake! Yet Hunter will not even try to blow a flake of snow.

Weak...lame...EPIC FAIL.

They ask me for my money earlier and earlier each year and I faithfully pay. My reward? Later and later openings, less snowmaking and open trails, and earlier closings that betray their clear desire to close by the end of March.

Weak...lame...EPIC FAIL.

I hope Whiteface/Gore/Belleayre decide to offer a 3 for 1 pass...I'll be first in line to buy one.


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## x10003q (Nov 20, 2012)

I read somewhere that there has been a temperature inversion at Hunter. Belleayre has postponed their planned Saturday opening. Windham has no snowmaking also. It seems to be the local weather. You need sustained 28degrees and low humidity which does not exist in the Catskills right now.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 20, 2012)

x10003q said:


> I read somewhere that there has been a temperature inversion at Hunter. Belleayre has postponed their planned Saturday opening. Windham has no snowmaking also. It seems to be the local weather. You need sustained 28degrees and low humidity which does not exist in the Catskills right now.


Exactly, I read on the Stowe snow blog today that they didn't fire up guns last night because while it was well below freezing in town temperatures on the mountain were well above freezing.

Not that I'm defending Hunter or anything. The place still sucks.


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## Bene288 (Nov 20, 2012)

Same inversion was going on at Jiminy according to a guy on the snow making crew that I was talking to. They said they were planning on blowing snow on the upper face trails, but it was warmer at the summit than it was at the base.


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## JimG. (Nov 20, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Not that I'm defending Hunter or anything. The place still sucks.



LOL...I almost fell out of my chair until I got to this edit!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 20, 2012)

JimG. said:


> I have always defended my home mountain here and elsewhere...not one bad comment about Hunter would pass without me defending the place.
> 
> But no more...Hunter will not even try to open for Thanksgiving. Jiminy Peak is open for God's sake! Yet Hunter will not even try to blow a flake of snow.
> 
> ...





You could always skip the pass and use liftopia and Potterbrothers both have great deals for all those Catskills and others from Pott. including Killington.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 20, 2012)

JimG. said:


> LOL...I almost fell out of my chair until I got to this edit!


Yeah I had to add that...:-D

I just looked at Mount Washington. It's colder in the valley than it is at 4,000 ft. The summit temperature at 6,200 is about the same though.


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2012)

Here's some mind boggling data that Mount Snow's head of Mountain Ops put up on their conditions up date yesterday morning about tge inversion on Sunday night.  Just on their beginner hill, which to put it in perspective has only 20 chairs on the entire lift that serves it and is maybe 100 yards long and 75-80 vertical feet- it was 25 at the base of that lift and 28 at the summit of that lift!!! 

CRAZY inversions going on the last few days!!!


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## 180 (Nov 20, 2012)

Jim, go easy, the weather has sucked.  Jiminy got lucky when they decided to blow 2 weeks ago.


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 20, 2012)

180 said:


> Jim, go easy, the weather has sucked.  Jiminy got lucky when they decided to blow 2 weeks ago.



But Jiminy has also been blowing at every possible chance they get. They have not gotten any juge windows, but they have been trying.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## skiadikt (Nov 21, 2012)

actually was gonna start a thread asking what's happened to hunter this season. hunter was my home early 80's to late 80's and i remember them always open by t-giving, with the friday being a ski patrol benefit day. they closed in april (one year making it to may). agree with jim g, they seem to be getting more conservative with their snowmaking lately. surprised to see jiminy beat them to the punch. so much for them being snowmaking capital of the world.


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Not that I'm defending Hunter or anything. The place still sucks.



So does your... umm.. nevermind..


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

180 said:


> Jim, go easy, the weather has sucked.  Jiminy got lucky when they decided to blow 2 weeks ago.



I tend to agree but it's been cold at night...

I miss Izzy...


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2012)

dmc said:


> I tend to agree but it's been cold at night...
> 
> I miss Izzy...



That man loved to make snow! I miss him too. Russ needs to be FIRED!!!


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

I do agree with the inversion thing..
I could actually see woodsmoke lingering around low while driving around the other night..

It's 31 and sunny in Hunter right now..


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## 180 (Nov 21, 2012)

dmc said:


> I tend to agree but it's been cold at night...
> 
> I miss Izzy...



I keep this page book marked, scroll all the way down the page.  It is very long.  It shows about 20 local weather stations, and the elevations.  I have watched every night the inversions that have occurred. 
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=12442

No-one loves Hunter more than me.  In a perfect world they could have blown the top of the mountain down to F and been open the same weekend as Jiminy.  Then the warm weather came in with inversions and they could have got the bottom going. Having missed the opportunity 2 weeks ago, (as Mt Snow did, check their web blog), they never had a chance to get the top going.  Seeing that Belleayre could not even get mid-station open shows the tough pattern we have been in.


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## 4aprice (Nov 21, 2012)

skiadikt said:


> actually was gonna start a thread asking what's happened to hunter this season. hunter was my home early 80's to late 80's and i remember them always open by t-giving, with the friday being a ski patrol benefit day. they closed in april (one year making it to may). agree with jim g, they seem to be getting more conservative with their snowmaking lately. surprised to see jiminy beat them to the punch. so much for them being snowmaking capital of the world.


,,

Not the business model it was in the 80's.  I don't know if you can blame them, they're just not enough of us crazies to support it.  Alot of things at Hunter have changed since the 80's.  Along with the early opening and late closing, it was as good a party and singles area as Killington.  I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why but I don't see that anymore.  I will never forget some of the great times I had at the base lodge bar and other establishments around the town.    Still a fan of the mountain itself, love the morning sun on the front face,  K-27 and Westway are my all time favorite runs there.  If they ever go back to the 80's model I'm sure I would still be one of the crazies up there (my son who never saw that would be there as well).

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

180 said:


> No-one loves Hunter more than me.



I'll put my stamp on that for sure!!!


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

4aprice said:


> it was as good a party and singles area as Killington.  I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why but I don't see that anymore.  I will never forget some of the great times I had at the base lodge bar and other establishments around the town.



Everyone got old and had kids...  the cycle is coming around..  180's kids can take care of themselves now so he can come out and party!!!

The base lodge party still rages and new bars are opening...


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## millerm277 (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm not sure what weather you have been watching, but it really hasn't been cold. Hunter's standard operating procedure is usually to take the stretch of really cold weather, and blow the hell out of the mountain, not spend days/$ on trying to cover a mountain in marginal temps.

50F during the day and 25F at night with high humidity, is simply not going to cover the mountain. Looks like it's going to finally get cold sometime next week.


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

It's been cold and frosty at night - every morning the cars are covered with frost - so I guess it is pretty humid..


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## 4aprice (Nov 21, 2012)

dmc said:


> Everyone for old and had kids...  the cycle is coming around..  180's kids can take care of themselves now so he can come out and party!!!
> 
> The base lodge party still rages and new bars are opening...



It's me too DMC.  The 80's were my hayday for that life style, can't keep up with the youngsters anymore, couple of drinks at the base lodge bar would be my limit now.  Glad to hear its coming around that way in that Hunter (the mountain and the town) were good that way.  I used to point single skiers to Hunter or Killington as good places to mingle.  I'm definately going to try to get up there this year, its all about the time and the day.   

Alex


Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

180 said:


> Jim, go easy, the weather has sucked.  Jiminy got lucky when they decided to blow 2 weeks ago.



Makes for good conversation.

You must admit they have been much less aggressive to open and close in the past 5 years.

And you know they could have opened already if they wanted to.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 21, 2012)

Funny,I was going to post a Cannon=epic fail thread this morning.Can't even open the lower Eagles Nest lift they were hoping for at the least.New date Nov 30.They are blaming their high elevation.Really?Sugarloaf and Killington are both higher elevations and they are both open.Loon and Bretton Woods being right down the road are open.While I agree there has been an inversion the last 3 days,why didn't they make snow like a lot of resorts 2 weekends ago when they had great conditions?


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

JimG. said:


> Makes for good conversation.
> 
> You must admit they have been much less aggressive to open and close in the past 5 years.
> 
> And you know they could have opened already if they wanted to.




I really think they are even more budget conscious after last year...


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

dmc said:


> I really think they are even more budget conscious after last year...



Ya gotta be in it to win it...

Closed mountain equals no revenue from skiers. 

No revenue does not help any budgets.


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## Smellytele (Nov 21, 2012)

SIKSKIER said:


> Funny,I was going to post a Cannon=epic fail thread this morning.Can't even open the lower Eagles Nest lift they were hoping for at the least.New date Nov 30.They are blaming their high elevation.Really?Sugarloaf and Killington are both higher elevations and they are both open.Loon and Bretton Woods being right down the road are open.While I agree there has been an inversion the last 3 days,why didn't they make snow like a lot of resorts 2 weekends ago when they had great conditions?



I think, not to make accuses for Cannon, that they blew snow near the bottom when they could and then got caught because of the inversion and couldn't blow any snow higher.


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

JimG. said:


> Closed mountain equals no revenue from skiers.



And the town too... Which take a beating..

I'm just relating what I hear...


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## skiersleft (Nov 21, 2012)

I was a midweek season pass holder at Hunter last year. When I was deciding whether to get a midweek season pass there, I also considered Belleayre, Windham and Jiminy. In the end, it came down to Hunter and Jiminy. I went with Hunter because they have more vertical and better terrain. I didn't get a season pass in any Catskill or Berkshire hills this year, but if I were to do it again next season, I would get one at Jiminy without thinking twice about it. I'm very much into skiing as much as a I can, and it's obvious that Jiminy is doing all it can to open as early as possible and close as late as possible. Hunter is going in the opposite direction. Opening later than before and closing earlier. 

I assume many who live within a couple of hours drive from both resorts may make similar decisions. I hope that when Hunter makes operational decisions they take into account that they're not only competing with Windham and Belleyare, but they're also going against Jiminy.


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## miskier1970 (Nov 21, 2012)

One thing to consider is Jiminy is able to produce their own electricity to make snow. I don't know the exact amount but I am sure the electric is the biggest cost of making snow.


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## Billx2 (Nov 21, 2012)

I think you forgot about the Great job Hunter did last year. When people were coming from Vermont and Canada because Hunter had it covered. We have seen how fast Hunter can get trails open when the conditions are right. Why waste money? Season passes are expensive enough! Be patient and thankful. Tis the season


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## skiersleft (Nov 21, 2012)

Billx2 said:


> I think you forgot about the Great job Hunter did last year. When people were coming from Vermont and Canada because Hunter had it covered. We have seen how fast Hunter can get trails open when the conditions are right. Why waste money? Season passes are expensive enough! Be patient and thankful. Tis the season



As I mentioned, I was a midweek season pass holder last year at Hunter. The west side never got going except for Clair's. And the season wasn't particularly long. Of course, last year was a horrible year for everyone. I also have a season pass at Killington. I can't imagine anyone wanting to drive down from Vermont last year (or canada for that matter) to ski hunter. It was bad in VT. It was worse at Hunter. I skied both quite often last year.


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2012)

Last year was bad... But Hunter did do a great job once they got going..
We had a TON of sweet spring days all winter...

And they did lose a ton of $ - so i think we're feeling it now..


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## RichT (Nov 21, 2012)

Last year was the worst for natural snow in the 30+ years i've been going to Hunter. But they did a wonderful job!!! Did anyone take a day to go to Windham? Oh boy! On the plus side, I basically have a free season pass this year, because I didn't spend a dime on snowplowing last!! I won't be making that claim this year though


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

dmc said:


> And the town too... Which take a beating..
> 
> I'm just relating what I hear...



I have no doubt this is true.

No snow, no skiers, no eating or drinking.

Or renting...or hotels. Ouch.


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

I hear alot of defenders here...strange to be the outspoken critic.

Hunter did a decent job last season, nothing special. They didn't blow any large amounts of snow after January. They didn't even blow appreciable snow before or during President's week which used to be a given. Some lame resurfacing and that's it.

Is this the great plan, to be ordinary? To be like little ski areas Hunter used to blow out of the water? That's not the Hunter I remember! Letting Jiminy open without so much as a whimper? Outrageous!

How the mighty have fallen! Disgusting! Shameful!


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

Poor Izzy must be rolling in his grave.


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2012)

JimG. said:


> I hear alot of defenders here...strange to be the outspoken critic.
> 
> Hunter did a decent job last season, nothing special. They didn't blow any large amounts of snow after January. They didn't even blow appreciable snow before or during President's week which used to be a given. Some lame resurfacing and that's it.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100%! So this weekend instead of using my Season pass along with my Son, we are heading up to Killington to spend money I should not have to! (My son has a pass at K too). This includes hotel room and the such. Not Happy at All, since they could have utilized the window of cold last week to make snow and open up!:uzi:


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2012)

JimG. said:


> Poor Izzy must be rolling in his grave.



And poor Orville does not have a clue!:sad:


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2012)

Now I am really PISSED! I made some comments on their facebook page (Posted a pic of Belleayre making Snow)(nothing derogatory) and am now blocked from commenting on anything on their page! How about if they just explained to us there was a inversion, then we would understand, but this non-communication is really BULL$HIT!!!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm really sorry Hunter is not the snow making capital any more, maybe we could get some rich investors to open up Bearpen.

I


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

Bearpen would be great...only a dream.


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> I was a midweek season pass holder at Hunter last year. When I was deciding whether to get a midweek season pass there, I also considered Belleayre, Windham and Jiminy. In the end, it came down to Hunter and Jiminy. I went with Hunter because they have more vertical and better terrain. I didn't get a season pass in any Catskill or Berkshire hills this year, but if I were to do it again next season, I would get one at Jiminy without thinking twice about it. I'm very much into skiing as much as a I can, and it's obvious that Jiminy is doing all it can to open as early as possible and close as late as possible. Hunter is going in the opposite direction. Opening later than before and closing earlier.
> 
> I assume many who live within a couple of hours drive from both resorts may make similar decisions. I hope that when Hunter makes operational decisions they take into account that they're not only competing with Windham and Belleyare, but they're also going against Jiminy.



This might be a stretch...in reality, I'm sure I'll ski Hunter 35-40 days this season and I would miss it if I went to Jiminy.

To be fair on my part.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 21, 2012)

JimG. said:


> This might be a stretch...in reality, I'm sure I'll ski Hunter 35-40 days this season and I would miss it if I went to Jiminy.
> 
> To be fair on my part.





Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

I so agree yes it is great that Jiminy open up first, and I only skiied their twice in my life but on no level does it compares to any of the Catskills especially Hunter.


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2012)

Since I can only ski Sunday this weekend I might wind up at Jiminy since Hunter didn't open. Not up for the K trek unless I can squeeze 2 ski days out of it.


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## skiersleft (Nov 21, 2012)

JimG. said:


> This might be a stretch...in reality, I'm sure I'll ski Hunter 35-40 days this season and I would miss it if I went to Jiminy.
> 
> To be fair on my part.



I understand why to many - like you and Scotty - it would be a stretch to leave Hunter for Jiminy. I think the most obvious reason why it would be a stretch is because Hunter has solid expert terrain, whereas Jiminy doesn't. However, note that an intermediate doesn't care about Hunter West. And Hunter has an obvious intermediate problem. Jiminy, on the other hand, is great for intermediates. Now, thing about an average family. Perhaps dad is an expert skier, and perhaps that's also the case of one of the kids. But very often mom is an intermediate and the rest of the kids are as well. Suddenly Jiminy becomes more appealing. So, again, I think Hunter underestimates hills like Jiminy at its own peril. The some NYC suburbs are close enough to Jiminy to make it a real option for many.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 21, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> I understand why to many - like you and Scotty - it would be a stretch to leave Hunter for Jiminy. I think the most obvious reason why it would be a stretch is because Hunter has solid expert terrain, whereas Jiminy doesn't. However, note that an intermediate doesn't care about Hunter West. And Hunter has an obvious intermediate problem. Jiminy, on the other hand, is great for intermediates. Now, thing about an average family. Perhaps dad is an expert skier, and perhaps that's also the case of one of the kids. But very often mom is an intermediate and the rest of the kids are as well. Suddenly Jiminy becomes more appealing. So, again, I think Hunter underestimates hills like Jiminy at its own peril. The some NYC suburbs are close enough to Jiminy to make it a real option for many.



I actually left Hunter for Platty, I'm just annoyed that I didn't know how great or any thing about Platty the first 6 years I lived in Middletown, but I'm so glad I will be there now.

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## skiersleft (Nov 21, 2012)

Scotty said:


> I actually left Hunter for Platty, I'm just annoyed that I didn't know how great or any thing about Platty the first 6 years I lived in Middletown, but I'm so glad I will be there now.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2



How do you deal with the incredible difference in snowmaking between Hunter and Platty? I know many years it's made up by Platty's natural, but one would think that in low snow years Hunter has a distinct advantage. How was it last year, for example? I didn't ski platty last year, but I assumed it was pretty dismal and that the trees were not in play most of the season. At least Hunter was able to open almost everything with their snowmaking. Or was Platty's skiing good last year in spite of the dearth of snow?


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## 180 (Nov 21, 2012)

dmc said:


> Everyone got old and had kids...  the cycle is coming around..  180's kids can take care of themselves now so he can come out and party!!!
> 
> The base lodge party still rages and new bars are opening...



For sure!



skiersleft said:


> I was a midweek season pass holder at Hunter last year. When I was deciding whether to get a midweek season pass there, I also considered Belleayre, Windham and Jiminy. In the end, it came down to Hunter and Jiminy. I went with Hunter because they have more vertical and better terrain. I didn't get a season pass in any Catskill or Berkshire hills this year, but if I were to do it again next season, I would get one at Jiminy without thinking twice about it. I'm very much into skiing as much as a I can, and it's obvious that Jiminy is doing all it can to open as early as possible and close as late as possible. Hunter is going in the opposite direction. Opening later than before and closing earlier.
> 
> I assume many who live within a couple of hours drive from both resorts may make similar decisions. I hope that when Hunter makes operational decisions they take into account that they're not only competing with Windham and Belleyare, but they're also going against Jiminy.



Hunter competes against itself



miskier1970 said:


> One thing to consider is Jiminy is able to produce their own electricity to make snow. I don't know the exact amount but I am sure the electric is the biggest cost of making snow.



Good point



Scotty said:


> Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
> 
> I so agree yes it is great that Jiminy open up first, and I only skiied their twice in my life but on no level does it compares to any of the Catskills especially Hunter.



For sure, this is also why were able to open on intermediate terrain.  Hellgate takes a lot of snow to open.



JimG. said:


> Bearpen would be great...only a dream.



Maybe we'll all win Powerball or come in to some money?  We should form a Bearppen pool.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 21, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> How do you deal with the incredible difference in snowmaking between Hunter and Platty? I know many years it's made up by Platty's natural, but one would think that in low snow years Hunter has a distinct advantage. How was it last year, for example? I didn't ski platty last year, but I assumed it was pretty dismal and that the trees were not in play most of the season. At least Hunter was able to open almost everything with their snowmaking. Or was Platty's skiing good last year in spite of the dearth of snow?


I skiied two times at Platty last year and they were both good days.

As I get older I find that I like to go to the hill when conditions are good, so after a warm up or rai* event I will have no problem waiting a to it snows again before I ski at Platty. Which in a normal season is not that big of a wait. I also am not a season pass holder to any hill so I can go to other places that have snow making and usually go to south Vermont for I guess 30% of my days in a typical winter. And I going to try some new places this year. The thing for me is on a typical weekend I want go to a place that conditions stay good through out the day and I happened to very lucky that I live 1.5 hours away. Also I'm a not a real bump skiier so most of Hunter west is awesome for bump people if so I be limited in what I normally enjoy on a weekend. And I never really that crowded on the lifts at Hunter that keep me away. When I get midweek day off I would go to Hunter. I been at my job for 6 years but only have 15 sick, vacation, and personal time which can't be used between T day and X- mas so I'm very picky about just taking a day.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

We toasted Izzy memory last night at the bar...
The conversation went from "just wait a week" to organizing a season pass holder walk out.....  Or something like that...   I had to take a cab home... haha..


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## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> How do you deal with the incredible difference in snowmaking between Hunter and Platty? I know many years it's made up by Platty's natural, but one would think that in low snow years Hunter has a distinct advantage. How was it last year, for example? I didn't ski platty last year, but I assumed it was pretty dismal and that the trees were not in play most of the season. At least Hunter was able to open almost everything with their snowmaking. Or was Platty's skiing good last year in spite of the dearth of snow?



I would think people choose Platty over Hunter/Windham/Bellayare for the same reasons people choose Magic over Snow/Stratton/Okemo.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 22, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
> 
> I so agree yes it is great that Jiminy open up first, and I only skiied their twice in my life but on no level does it compares to any of the Catskills especially Hunter.


Jiminy skies a lot like Windham...almost two in the same.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> I would think people choose Platty over Hunter/Windham/Bellayare for the same reasons people choose Magic over Snow/Stratton/Okemo.



Thats fair...  

Or MRG over Sugarbush...


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

Scotty said:


> I'm really sorry Hunter is not the snow making capital any more



That nice of you but...
as soon as the switch is flipped - it's going to be a white cloud ...


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## kingslug (Nov 22, 2012)

I've always relied on Hunter to be one of the first to open. I used to start my season skiing half a run for half a day every year. The last 2 years I've started at K, taking the loooong bus trip from hell. Hopefully they will open in December as their are only trips to Okemo and Stratton that month ( Snowbird ski tours) ...just one more thing to deal with living on Long Island. Might have to head west for a few days if things don't improve.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 22, 2012)

dmc said:


> Thats fair...
> 
> Or MRG over Sugarbush...


I have a harder time with this one... Sugarbush having Castlerock and a lot of other great ungroomed terrain.


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2012)

I just have to laugh a bit at how everyone, (maybe with the excpetion of DMC who is actually there) think that they somehow have a better handle on the weather than the mountain ops folks!  

Look the weather hasn't been very favorable for a sustained snowmaking effort.  A few hours a day with marginal at best temps, followed by above freezing temps during the day on top of unfrozen ground isn't lways the best use of what i'm guessing is a finite snowmaking budget. Sometimes the tough decision to not make snow in marginal temps is a call that needs to be made.  In the past it might have been done differently, but the reality is that today there's a heck of a lot more actual data out there about what it costs to make so much snow at such and such a temperature and maximizing production with as minimal an impact on the overall snowmaking budget is much more in the forefront of ski area admins than ever before.  

When Hunter gets the temps, i'm sure that we'll see some of the AWESOME "Hunter Cloud" pics that DMC puts up almost every year when they unleash that massive system at its potential.  A few degrees can make a huge difference interms of how much production a ski area can get from its system, the constant though is what it costs to run the system, an if you can get more snow for the same cost, that ultimately benefits the everyone


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## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2012)

drjeff said:


> I just have to laugh a bit at how everyone, (maybe with the excpetion of DMC who is actually there) think that they somehow have a better handle on the weather than the mountain ops folks!
> 
> Look the weather hasn't been very favorable for a sustained snowmaking effort.  A few hours a day with marginal at best temps, followed by above freezing temps during the day on top of unfrozen ground isn't lways the best use of what i'm guessing is a finite snowmaking budget. Sometimes the tough decision to not make snow in marginal temps is a call that needs to be made.  In the past it might have been done differently, but the reality is that today there's a heck of a lot more actual data out there about what it costs to make so much snow at such and such a temperature and maximizing production with as minimal an impact on the overall snowmaking budget is much more in the forefront of ski area admins than ever before.
> 
> When Hunter gets the temps, i'm sure that we'll see some of the AWESOME "Hunter Cloud" pics that DMC puts up almost every year when they unleash that massive system at its potential.  A few degrees can make a huge difference interms of how much production a ski area can get from its system, the constant though is what it costs to run the system, an if you can get more snow for the same cost, that ultimately benefits the everyone



That's all fine and well drjeff, but I can see why folks are upset when Jimminy is open.  

Hunter could be open right now.  People aren't claiming to be weather experts.  They're just upset their mountain didn't go for it like Jimminy did.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

ALLSKIING said:


> I have a harder time with this one... Sugarbush having Castlerock and a lot of other great ungroomed terrain.



On a smaller scale - you have Hunter West...  And the ravine area... shhhh....


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> That's all fine and well drjeff, but I can see why folks are upset when Jimminy is open.
> 
> Hunter could be open right now.  People aren't claiming to be weather experts.  They're just upset their mountain didn't go for it like Jimminy did.



Don't count me in on that... I could care less about Jimminy...     I just want Hunter to open... haha..  December 1st... 

It would be a great day to ride today... gorgeous outside!!


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## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2012)

My biggest gripe is the LACK of Communication coming from Hunter! the word soon does not cut it!


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## Smellytele (Nov 22, 2012)

dmc said:


> I could care less about Jimminy...


 
Should be - I couldn't care less... :wink: Saying you could care less implies that you care some what.


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## spring_mountain_high (Nov 22, 2012)

Smellytele said:


> Should be - I couldn't care less... :wink: Saying you could care less implies that you care some what.



<<slow clap>>

one my bigger pet peeves...that and "irregardless"


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## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2012)

Lets get back on Topic folks!


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## JimG. (Nov 22, 2012)

I don't really care about Jiminy other than I might have to ski there on Sunday because Hunter decided to not open. Jiminy took a chance, Hunter didn't.

That's all I'm saying.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

JimG. said:


> I don't really care about Jiminy other than I might have to ski there on Sunday because Hunter decided to not open. Jiminy took a chance, Hunter didn't.
> 
> That's all I'm saying.



it's 68 and sunny right now...   Windows are open... 

Grammar lesson from a tele skier seems to be over now..


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## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2012)

dmc said:


> it's 68 and sunny right now...   Windows are open...
> 
> Grammar lesson from a tele skier seems to be over now..



Talk about an Inversion!


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2012)

andrec10 said:


> Talk about an Inversion!



they didn't even have the lights on - on the mountain last night..


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## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2012)

dmc said:


> they didn't even have the lights on - on the mountain last night..



From looking at the weather, I am gonna go out on a limb and say they start making snow Saturday/Saturday Night. Lets hope I am right!


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## JimG. (Nov 22, 2012)

Let's not be too negative...I'm sure they will try to make up for it with a snowmaking blitz when possible.

Today it was warm...didn't need a jacket.


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## millerm277 (Nov 23, 2012)

andrec10 said:


> My biggest gripe is the LACK of Communication coming from Hunter! the word soon does not cut it!



That's pretty much the answer though. The lowest it's gone at the base in the past 2 weeks is 21F. It's been humid, and if they had an inversion up top, you're talking very marginal snowmaking.

There are 10-20F nighttime lows coming up, with cold day temps too, I expect the cloud will be here soon.


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## skiadikt (Nov 23, 2012)

JimG. said:


> *Is this the great plan, to be ordinary? *To be like little ski areas Hunter used to blow out of the water? That's not the Hunter I remember! Letting Jiminy open without so much as a whimper? Outrageous!
> 
> How the mighty have fallen! Disgusting! Shameful!



sounds like what many of us were saying about killington under nyberg the past 5 years. this season under a new president the boos have turned to cheers. hopefully at some point hunter will get back to being hunter.


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## andrec10 (Nov 23, 2012)

skiadikt said:


> sounds like what many of us were saying about killington under nyberg the past 5 years. this season under a new president the boos have turned to cheers. hopefully at some point hunter will get back to being hunter.



The only way they get back to being Hunter, is to be bought. The current ownership does not have it in them, sorry to say!


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## k123 (Nov 23, 2012)

millerm277 said:


> That's pretty much the answer though. The lowest it's gone at the base in the past 2 weeks is 21F. It's been humid, and if they had an inversion up top, you're talking very marginal snowmaking.
> 
> There are 10-20F nighttime lows coming up, with cold day temps too, I expect the cloud will be here soon.



Yes the forecast is looking pretty good.
Can't wait to see the cloud!


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## dmc (Nov 23, 2012)

Snowmaking starting tomorrow..


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## kingslug (Nov 24, 2012)

dmc said:


> Snowmaking starting tomorrow..



Wahooooo!


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## RichT (Nov 24, 2012)

K123
Can I get a link to that weather forcast site? I like that!


k123 said:


> Yes the forecast is looking pretty good.
> Can't wait to see the cloud!


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## 4aprice (Nov 24, 2012)

My son was poking around on the web cams this morning.  Much to my surprise it looks like Windham has the jump on Hunter.  It looked to me like they were blowing and had some down while Hunter looked quiet.  Could it be that one side of the ridge has snowmaking temps while the other does not?  Not sure how much it matters cause it looks like the window is gonna open for a little while and everyone (including the pokes) is going to get going.  Just surprised me and I had to comment.


Alex


Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## skiersleft (Nov 24, 2012)

*From Windham's Snow Conditions Page: 
*
*November 24, 2012
*
Ready...Set...Snow! Our snowmaking crew cranked up the guns at 7am this morning, and will keep them on every minute that temps allow. We will be focusing on Upper and Lower Whistler, Upper and Lower Wolverine, What's Next, Upper White Way, Wooly Bear and  the Base Area just to get us started. We've stacked these trails with more than 170 snow guns to open with the best conditions possible - as soon as possible. We'll keep you posted with the latest updates.
*----------
From Hunter's Facebook Page:* 

Hunter Mountain's impressive snowmaking arsenal will be fired up today. If you haven't yet purchased your Big Lift or 3X Cards now would be an excellent time. Hurry the deadlines are fast approaching and we will be open soon.


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## dmc (Nov 24, 2012)

4aprice said:


> Much to my surprise it looks like Windham has the jump on Hunter.




Yeah that 20 minutes is going to really crush Hunter...  

Guns on now...  And so it begins...


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## ScottySkis (Nov 24, 2012)

dmc said:


> Yeah that 20 minutes is going to really crush Hunter...
> 
> Guns on now...  And so it begins...





Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
That is to hear, hope Hunter people are making some turns soon.


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## dmc (Nov 24, 2012)

Scotty said:


> hope Hunter people are making some turns soon.



thanks...  I'm not worried...   Come ski...


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## fbrissette (Nov 24, 2012)

RichT said:


> K123
> Can I get a link to that weather forcast site? I like that!



http://www.snow-forecast.com


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## ScottySkis (Nov 24, 2012)

dmc said:


> thanks...  I'm not worried...   Come ski...





Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

I will soon.


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## skiersleft (Nov 24, 2012)

So, here's a question for the Hunter locals. How long after they start blowing can Hunter get open? Assuming that they have the decent temps that it looks they will have. They really do have an amazing snowmaking system..once they get going. 

And - on a separate note - what about Windham's snowmaking system? Is it also very good? They just said they had 170 guns going. That sounds like an awful lot to me. How soon can they get open?

The Catskills race to open is on! Who do you think will win?


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## dmc (Nov 24, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> So, here's a question for the Hunter locals. How long after they start blowing can Hunter get open? Assuming that they have the decent temps that it looks they will have. They really do have an amazing snowmaking system..once they get going.
> 
> And - on a separate note - what about Windham's snowmaking system? Is it also very good? They just said they had 170 guns going. That sounds like an awful lot to me. How soon can they get open?
> 
> The Catskills race to open is on! Who do you think will win?



Hunter could push it and get it opened in a couple days for sure..  BUT - it may be only half open or narrow here and there..   I think they are going to hit it all week and have a KILLER opening a week from today... Front face...  Belt Parkway...  Eastside drive...  Maybe even Way Out... who knows...


Guns are on from Midstation on up now a couple down low...  Looks like they are going for it.....


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## kartski (Nov 24, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> So, here's a question for the Hunter locals. How long after they start blowing can Hunter get open? Assuming that they have the decent temps that it looks they will have. They really do have an amazing snowmaking system..once they get going.



They used to be able to open HBK in 24 hr, but they used to bring out a bunch of pin guns to help the fan jets. I'll settle for next weekend. I'll tune skis tomorrow while the F1 race from Brazil is on, last race on tv it next season.


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## skiersleft (Nov 24, 2012)

This thread is worthless without some Hunter cloud pics. Hope to see those soon.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 24, 2012)

JimG. said:


> I don't really care about Jiminy other than I might have to ski there on Sunday because Hunter decided to not open. Jiminy took a chance, Hunter didn't.
> 
> That's all I'm saying.





Liftopia has tickets for Sunday for Jiminy for $39.


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## JimG. (Nov 24, 2012)

dmc said:


> Hunter could push it and get it opened in a couple days for sure..  BUT - it may be only half open or narrow here and there..   I think they are going to hit it all week and have a KILLER opening a week from today... Front face...  Belt Parkway...  Eastside drive...  Maybe even Way Out... who knows...
> 
> 
> Guns are on from Midstation on up now a couple down low...  Looks like they are going for it.....



Agreed...a big opening next Saturday with the front side mostly open would redeem their decision in my eyes.


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## dmc (Nov 24, 2012)




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## skiersleft (Nov 24, 2012)

Now that's what I'm talking about! Thanks, DMC!


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## 4aprice (Nov 24, 2012)

dmc said:


> Yeah that 20 minutes is going to really crush Hunter...
> 
> Guns on now...  And so it begins...
> 
> View attachment 6883



We must have peeked in on that window because it was quite the juxtapostion knowing where they lie geography wise.  I had no doubt things would get cranked up today seeing the weather window predicted.  Here's to a good week of base building and hopefully the rewards of it as soon as next weekend.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## millerm277 (Nov 24, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> So, here's a question for the Hunter locals. How long after they start blowing can Hunter get open? Assuming that they have the decent temps that it looks they will have. They really do have an amazing snowmaking system..once they get going.



I've seen <24 hours for T2B. Depending on how hard they hammer it, you could see most of the mountain by next wknd.



> And - on a separate note - what about Windham's snowmaking system? Is it also very good? They just said they had 170 guns going. That sounds like an awful lot to me. How soon can they get open?
> 
> The Catskills race to open is on! Who do you think will win?



Not bad, and adequate for the hill, just not obscenely powerful like Hunters.

EDIT: DMC, thanks for the pictures.


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## JimG. (Nov 24, 2012)

I feel better now.

Still upset I can't ski there tomorrow though.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 24, 2012)

Umm, I see at most two dozen guns blowing in that Hunter photo. So how is 170 guns going just "not bad" ??

Actually I don't think I've ever heard of 170 guns going at once.. is this real ??


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## ScottySkis (Nov 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Umm, I see at most two dozen guns blowing in that Hunter photo. So how is 170 guns going just "not bad" ??
> 
> Actually I don't think I've ever heard of 170 guns going at once.. is this real ??





Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
I'm sure it has that is one of great things about Hunter is they could and do use that many snow guns to open.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Actually I don't think I've ever heard of 170 guns going at once.. is this real ??


Not 170 but close. From today's Stowe report.

Overnight our snowmakers plan to run between *125-150 *snow guns on the  following trails: Sunrise, Standard, Crossover, Lower Liftline, Lower  Lord, Lower North Slope, Side Street, Catwalk, Slalom Hill, West Slope,  and Easy Street.  During the day tomorrow, we plan to be making snow on  the open trails of Sunrise, Standard, Centerline, Upper Hayride, and  Slalom Hill.


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## ERJ-145CA (Nov 24, 2012)

Looks like Mountain Creek is going to start making snow tonight too.  Here's their snow report for tomorrow which they published already:



> *November 25, 2012*Great news for snow lovers… As of last night, snowmaking at Mountain Creek has officially begun!  With the recent drop in temperature, the most powerful snowmaking system in the universe is now back in action for the 2012-2013 season.  We will continue to make snow at every opportunity from now through Opening Day.




Currently 33 degrees and in a few hours it should be cold enough.


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## millerm277 (Nov 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Umm, I see at most two dozen guns blowing in that Hunter photo. So how is 170 guns going just "not bad" ??



They're probably just waiting for lower temps, check back in the morning. This would be an example of the Hunter cloud: http://www.huntermtn.com/huntermtn/SiteAssets/images/heroes/subhero.mountain.snow-making.jpg



> Actually I don't think I've ever heard of 170 guns going at once.. is this real ??



All depends on gun choice. You could run 10 little guns, or a big fan gun, and have them both produce the same amount of snow.


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## Rambo (Nov 24, 2012)

Sunday River claims they can run over 300 snowguns at once. Hunter must also be able to run a huge number at once and at high pressure... their water pumps and air compressors are HUGE!!!!!


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## 180 (Nov 24, 2012)

No guns running at the base yet......26 degrees


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## RichT (Nov 25, 2012)

Thank You!!!


fbrissette said:


> http://www.snow-forecast.com


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## RichT (Nov 25, 2012)

me too........hope Alonso pulls it out, not looking so good though.


kartski said:


> They used to be able to open HBK in 24 hr, but they used to bring out a bunch of pin guns to help the fan jets. I'll settle for next weekend. I'll tune skis tomorrow while the F1 race from Brazil is on, last race on tv it next season.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 25, 2012)

RichT said:


> Thank You!!!





Www.snowforecast.com is also a great weather for all the resorts.


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## kartski (Nov 25, 2012)

RichT said:


> me too........hope Alonso pulls it out, not looking so good though.



I'm waiting for the 4:30 replay, don't really know any one in F1. Rooting for Vettle though, even though he won the
Championship once, he's still young talent.


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## 180 (Nov 25, 2012)

Above freezing at the base now, 26 at top of B lift.  Lots of snow above B lift.  They have several new rotating Pole Cats around the mountain, very nice.


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## k123 (Nov 25, 2012)

DMC, is there any snowmaking going on that we can't see on the webcams (belt parkway, etc.)?  Looks like just hellgate and 7th ave from the webcam.  Any pics would be greatly appreciated.


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## 180 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hellgate and Broadway


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## kingslug (Nov 25, 2012)

Well I hope they open now that I started the season at k but can't get back there for a while...3 hour ride beats 5 1/2 on a bus any day.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 26, 2012)

If this storm tomorrow produces 5" or 6"inches the Poconos might open before the Catskills = some people in this threads heads will explode.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 26, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> If this storm tomorrow produces 5" or 6"inches the Poconos might open before the Catskills = some people in this threads heads will explode.





Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
Imagine that, maybe Elk could open up.


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## JimG. (Nov 26, 2012)

At this point I hope Hunter waits until Saturday to open so they can make as much snow as they can.


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## Harvey (Nov 26, 2012)

If Hunter opens first in the Cats, or even tied for first, I can't see how that classifies as an epic or any kind of a fail.  It costs a fortune to make snow and people's jobs are on the line.  If you lose a bunch of money there are consequences.

Anyone have a guess as to the cost per hour of what is going on at Hunter at this moment?


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## ScottySkis (Nov 26, 2012)

Harvey44 said:


> If Hunter opens first in the Cats, or even tied for first, I can't see how that classifies as an epic or any kind of a fail.  It costs a fortune to make snow and people's jobs are on the line.  If you lose a bunch of money there are consequences.
> 
> Anyone have a guess as to the cost per hour of what is going on at Hunter at this moment?





Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2 per hour with mangers, snow maker's, fuel, 5,000$ an hour?


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## MarkC (Nov 27, 2012)

Harvey44 said:


> If Hunter opens first in the Cats, or even tied for first, I can't see how that classifies as an epic or any kind of a fail.  It costs a fortune to make snow and people's jobs are on the line.  If you lose a bunch of money there are consequences.
> 
> Anyone have a guess as to the cost per hour of what is going on at Hunter at this moment?



I believe the number is somewhere near 13k per hour.


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## kingslug (Nov 27, 2012)

MarkC said:


> I believe the number is somewhere near 13k per hour.


 I though it was about 100K per day at peak supply...a lot of coin...Things have changed, they have to be more cautious, can't throw away that kind of money and hope it doesn't melt.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 27, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Umm, I see at most two dozen guns blowing in that Hunter photo. So how is 170 guns going just "not bad" ??
> 
> Actually I don't think I've ever heard of *170 guns going at once..* is this real ??


Our dedicated snowmakers* ran up to 175 snow guns *on the following trails  overnight: Nosedive from top to bottom, Lower North Slope, Inspiration,  Easy Street, Slalom Hill, Catwalk & Side Street.  Today they will  continue to make snow on those same trails, with the exception of Easy  Street.

Oh yeah they also report 5"-8" of natural over the past 72hrs.


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## 180 (Nov 27, 2012)

Hunter has notified staff of a Saturday opening.


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## JimG. (Nov 27, 2012)

I epic failed Hunter because Jiminy Peak opened way before them and that bothered me a great deal at the time. 

But I had no idea that epic failing Hunter would lead to multiple threads about Hunter. Look at the press they got here! In a weird way I think I did them a favor.


----------



## k123 (Nov 27, 2012)

180 said:


> Hunter has notified staff of a Saturday opening.



How much do you think they will be charging this weekend?


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## ScottySkis (Nov 27, 2012)

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

Saturday opening is great news.


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## skiersleft (Nov 27, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Our dedicated snowmakers* ran up to 175 snow guns *on the following trails  overnight: Nosedive from top to bottom, Lower North Slope, Inspiration,  Easy Street, Slalom Hill, Catwalk & Side Street.  Today they will  continue to make snow on those same trails, with the exception of Easy  Street.
> 
> Oh yeah they also report 5"-8" of natural over the past 72hrs.
> View attachment 6901



Should we move from Killington to Stowe?


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## kingslug (Nov 27, 2012)

k123 said:


> How much do you think they will be charging this weekend?



Who cares..I'm there...happy dance in progress....


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## steamboat1 (Nov 28, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> Should we move from Killington to Stowe?



Who's we?


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## skiersleft (Nov 28, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Who's we?



I thought your local hill when you're away from NYC is Killington. It's closer to Pittsford than Stowe. And my local hill is Killington. And these pictures make me ask whether we should move closer to stowe.


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## dmc (Nov 28, 2012)




----------

