# Ski Season Grade



## VTKilarney (Apr 4, 2015)

It's that time of year...  What grade do you give this ski season?

I give it a "B".  December was excellent, and while there wasn't more than average snowfall where I ski, the snow stuck around after the Christmas thaw.  There were a couple of negatives, however: a) the hardback that developed after the Christmas thaw was a factor for the remainder of the year; b) we had very few ski days with temperatures in the 20-32 range.  Bitter cold with wind was common this winter.

All in all a very good year.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 4, 2015)

Is your primary skiing experience from out west?  This is the second time I've seen you mention "the hardpack " sticking around all winter.  That hard pack base is a reality at every single eastern ski area every single winter.  It rains, we have high water content snow both manmade and natural.  In my 31 years of skiing it's always been a factor.  Even during the record winter of 2000-2001 when I skied 100+ days at Stowe during that 400+ inch season; the base was hard pack.  Basically that's a water is wet statement.  Was this your first year skiing much?  Nothing wrong with that it's just your hard pack comment is very much a noob statement.

I'll withhold my grade until I hang up the sticks in hopefully at least a month.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 4, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Was this your first year skiing much?  Nothing wrong with that it's just your hard pack comment is very much a noob statement.


I didn't get back into the sport until last February.  Prior to that the last couple of years I had skied had been out west.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 4, 2015)

Well there you go.  Get used to the hard pack.  :lol:   It's a factor every single eastern winter.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Apr 4, 2015)

I'd give it a C. If I didn't get those 2 powder days in December it would be much lower. It's been pretty much spring skiing for the last 2+ months here, and way, way too hot


----------



## makimono (Apr 4, 2015)

I give the season an A...me and my ability to take advantage of it gets a C...hopeful to bring up my grade with a kickass spring though!


----------



## skiMEbike (Apr 4, 2015)

Lock this thread....Grades don't come out until May.   Spring skiing is FINALLY here....So get out there & bring up those grades.


----------



## granite (Apr 4, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Is your primary skiing experience from out west?  This is the second time I've seen you mention "the hardpack " sticking around all winter.  That hard pack base is a reality at every single eastern ski area every single winter.  It rains, we have high water content snow both manmade and natural.  In my 31 years of skiing it's always been a factor.  Even during the record winter of 2000-2001 when I skied 100+ days at Stowe during that 400+ inch season; the base was hard pack.  Basically that's a water is wet statement.  Was this your first year skiing much?  Nothing wrong with that it's just your hard pack comment is very much a noob statement.
> 
> I'll withhold my grade until I hang up the sticks in hopefully at least a month.



I agee, it's too early to give final grades when ski season is far from over.


----------



## fbrissette (Apr 4, 2015)

granite said:


> I agee, it's too early to give final grades when ski season is far from over.



I partly agree but the most important 'winter' part of the season is over.   Lots of people enjoy soft moguls, sunburns and a cold one outside, but personally, i would gladly trade 10 perfect spring days (like yesterday) for a couple additional pow days.  

I will enjoy snow till it last, but once there is no pow left to be found (even in the backcountry), the real ski season is over.  In my book, incredibly good or bad April-May skiing has a minimal effect on my grading.

This season is a B in my book.


----------



## Old Duderino (Apr 4, 2015)

The season's over for me, my kids spring sports seasons are under way and even if I wanted to go it's a long drive to any place that's still open.  Although I wish I would have gotten more days in than the dozen I got I'd have to give this season an A.  Although the west didn't get a lot of snow we timed our Colorado trip perfectly and got three good powder days, two of which were deep.  I finally got to experience a deep day on a snowboard, which I have to admit beats skiing as long as theres not a lot of hiking or traversing involved.  Took a family portrait on top of Highland Bowl before we all got to hit it when it's as good as it gets.

I do wish we could have worked in a trip to the NE since by most accounts it was a very good year.  Hopefully next year.


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 4, 2015)

While the snow continues to be epic, the timing of the weather has been a disaster for the eastern skiing areas:
 - Christmas: Rain
 - MLK: Sunday of the weekend lost to rain
 - President's Day weekend: Roads are bad, snow is amazing, but people are staying away. Feb. 2015 was the 2nd coldest NH Feb. in 143 years of record keeping.

Now in terms of my enjoyment of a day of skiing, for me it isn't just about the snow quality: it's wind; it's temperature; it's crowd; it's the hill I'm on; etc. If one cherry picks days, every season has its great days. But for those in the 50+ a day club, this season just wasn't that good!

 I'm suggesting that the season to date is B- for the skiers; but C- to D+ for the areas' bottom lines.


----------



## marcski (Apr 4, 2015)

I don't see your logic, Joshua, unless you are that averse to cold weather.  There was a solid 8 weeks without a freeze/thaw period this winter. When was the last time that happened in the east?  While I readily admit this season was far from record snowfalls, there was plenty to go around.  IMHO,  the lack of freeze/thaws for 2 months alone puts this season at a B in and of itself.  I am hopefully far from finished for the season so I will refrain from giving my final grade at the moment. I won't even open the "Closing Dates" thread.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm with you Marc.  Killington (and I assume many other places) advertised at one point that they had gone 50 straight days where the temperature at the base didn't exceed 32.

Personally?  My perfect winter would have the temps stay 20 or colder from November straight through March.


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 4, 2015)

marcski said:


> I don't see your logic, Joshua, unless you are that averse to cold weather.  There was a solid 8 weeks without a freeze/thaw period this winter. When was the last time that happened in the east?  While I readily admit this season was far from record snowfalls, there was plenty to go around.  IMHO,  the lack of freeze/thaws for 2 months alone puts this season at a B in and of itself.  I am hopefully far from finished for the season so I will refrain from giving my final grade at the moment. I won't even open the "Closing Dates" thread.


My idea of an "A" season was 2010-1: Good snow Xmas, MLK and pres. week. No January thaw to speak of. No extreme weather.


----------



## yeggous (Apr 4, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> My idea of an "A" season was 2010-1: Good snow Xmas, MLK and pres. week. No January thaw to speak of. No extreme weather.



I don't care about holiday weekends more than any other. I give it a B because the snow in the mountains was unremarkable. December was excellent but that's it.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Quietman (Apr 4, 2015)

This was an A+ for me personally.  Had been working at a local area part time for the last 5 years for extra $ and free skiing. Was laid-off  from my full time gig in Nov, put in a few hours working lifts in Dec while really enjoying the early season powder, worked 60+ hrs/week loading lifts after the Christmas rain through the MLK rainy weekend.  Got a real job back the next week, then skied powder loaded glades for the next 6 weekends while only working a few Sat/Sun on the lifts.  The only lift ticket paid so far this year was $89 for SR two weeks ago and had a great day after a free day at Wildcat.  Hoping to get one last day at Mt Snow before calling it quits. Yes, Feb was really cold, but the powder was first rate for S NH.


----------



## snoseek (Apr 4, 2015)

Skiing wise F- for me.


I had a great time this winter though and learned to ski rocky super techy lines with VERY little snow and often less than ideal surface conditions. Off skis I had lots of fun also. Maybe next year will get back to normal out here?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 4, 2015)

I think people are grading WAY too hard.

This season I'd give a B+, only losing marks due to the fact that it was so brutally cold on many weekends when many (most) can get away.

But there was no thaw at all, and plenty of 3" to 5" refreshers all season long.  I though it was a great year.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 4, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Even during the record winter of 2000-2001 when I skied 100+ days at Stowe during that 400+ inch season



This was pre the times when all pics were digital, so I'd have to dig them out, but I have some great pics of trail signs being BURIED, as well as ski patrol digging out the Starr sign with their hands.

EDIT: this sign


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 5, 2015)

Yup. Snow was higher than that fence at one point.  We were dropping off it on powder days when the ice flow below it would get briefly covered


----------



## Edd (Apr 5, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> My idea of an "A" season was 2010-1: Good snow Xmas, MLK and pres. week. No January thaw to speak of. No extreme weather.



I was sort of taking this as a personal grade. The holidays you speak of, yes, not good for ski areas. 

Those periods are a non-factor for some folks. I'm holding my grade as well. I hope to bang out 7 more days before May.


----------



## Smellytele (Apr 5, 2015)

My season is almost over. I would say A-. Always room for improvement. I would you use a sliding scale by time of the year and my expectations for that time of year. The beginning of the year up until Christmas was an A+. Christmas week was a C. Most of January was a B- then end of January through beginning of March was an A. Middle of March was an A-. Yesterday was an unexpected A-. Hitting Crotched this afternoon but I am not expecting much...


----------



## Brad J (Apr 5, 2015)

over all B+ good early season , best December ever ,then I went out to Alta/ Snowbird and hit a storm , back home to horrid, then great snow thru Febuary I think , my brain was frozen from the cold , then went to Jackson hole, very firm, Alta again hit another storm, then home to cold frozen conditions wishing for spring Temps/ sun. I was extremely lucky with my timing at Alta /Snowbird so over all a very good season.


----------



## Whitey (Apr 5, 2015)

Wow, I am glad I didn't have you guys as teachers in school - I'd still be repeating the 4th grade. . .

This season is absolutely an A.   We've had good to great snow & the season continues on.   Yes, January was pretty much a wipe out but February & March kicked a$$.   And the season goes on.   

I'll admit that some of my grade is due to good timing on my part.   I made more of an effort this season to watch the weather and be ready to go as soon as the snow fell or softened.   That resulted in a powder day at Ragged, a cornfest at Cannon, and two 3 day trips where we nailed the timing/conditions.    Throw in a 50th Bday weekend at Sugarloaf - that's a hard A!

Personally I've had some of my best days of skiing ever this season.  I'd put a couple of those days on my "top ten of all time" days for me.


----------



## sugarbushskier (Apr 5, 2015)

I'd give it an A-.  Great year, 12 different ski areas, 412K+ of vertical over 21 days of mostly md-week skiing.  Got to ski some smaller areas that had been on my list for years.  Was also able to pick and choose when to ski so conditions mostly exceptional.  No complaints!


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 5, 2015)

OK.  Here is the basis for my understanding of a grading system: The concept of "grade" to me implies some kind of bell curve with perhaps 1 season in 10 being rated "F", 1 in 10 rated "A"; 2 in 10 being rated "B", 2 rated "D" and 4 rated "C".

With 2010-1 as my "A" and 2012-13 and 2013-2014 as my "B"s, there is no room for this season for any more than a "C".


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 5, 2015)

Using any rating system, including Joshua's curve, I give this season an A so far.  It won't drop below A for me even if it ends today.  But a few more good days could make it an A+.

Powder day on April 5 solidified that grade.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 5, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> With 2010-1 as my "A" and 2012-13 and 2013-2014 as my "B"s, there is no room for this season for any more than a "C".



Too each their own, but you are 1 of a VERY small percentage of NE skiers that rate last year better than this year; especially as a Crotched skier.   Southern NH received probably 50" more snow this year than last and had no where near the severity of thaw cycles.  I watched a 12-18" natural base at Crotched get wiped out 3-4 times last year.  This year an even deeper base lasted almost 2.5 months straight.......unheard of for SNH.


----------



## freeski (Apr 5, 2015)

I keep hearing people say how much snow we got in Concord this year. Not really, it just all came in 7 weeks or so and it never got above freezing. People saw the reports out of Boston, but above normal snow didn't happen here. We never even had a storm that was much more than a foot. All in all a good snow year though. Cannon got pretty much the same snow as Killington.


----------



## JimG. (Apr 5, 2015)

Whitey said:


> Wow, I am glad I didn't have you guys as teachers in school - I'd still be repeating the 4th grade. . .
> 
> This season is absolutely an A.   We've had good to great snow & the season continues on.   Yes, January was pretty much a wipe out but February & March kicked a$$.   And the season goes on.
> 
> ...



My perception as well; being able to go ski at the drop of the weather hat makes a big difference.


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 5, 2015)

I guess there is a fundamental question of "what grade is average?" And with no agreement on that, there is no meaning to a grading system that rates every season as an "A".


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 5, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> I guess there is a fundamental question of "what grade is average?" And with no agreement on that, there is no meaning to a grading system that rates every season as an "A".



I'd say "C" is average. Or at least that's the most common standard.  Who rates every season an "A"?  I haven't seen anybody make mention of that in this thread.

For me this season is on par with 2010-11 (making it an A) and is better than the past 3 seasons (which were Bs and C). My memory and notes don't go back much further than that with any detail.  I do remember a horrible season that would have been an "F". Was that 06-07?


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 5, 2015)

Going to agree with DHS and withhold grading until it's over.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Scruffy (Apr 5, 2015)

So far, it's an A. What are you people talking about, no snow in Jan.? I guess the storms were hit or miss, but I skied several powder days at Killington in Jan. Devils fiddle, all natural cover, woods were great. They have cars, ya know, you can move around and ski here and there.

 And to whine about the cold? Really? They make good clothing for that now a days, ya know. I think some of you need to take up parcheesi as a sport. 

I can understand our brothers and sisters out west rating the season low, but anyone in the NE, who rates this season low, has a short memory. Some of you keep bringing up the 2001, and 2010 years; there has been a lot more bony years than this year in between.


----------



## ScottySkis (Apr 5, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> So far, it's an A. What are you people talking about, no snow in Jan.? I guess the storms were hit or miss, but I skied several powder days at Killington in Jan. Devils fiddle, all natural cover, woods were great. They have cars, ya know, you can move around and ski here and there.
> 
> And to whine about the cold? Really? They make good clothing for that now a days, ya know. I think some of you need to take up parcheesi as a sport.
> 
> I can understand our brothers and sisters out west rating the season low, but anyone in the NE, who rates this season low, has a short memory. Some of you keep bringing up the 2001, and 2010 years; there has been a lot more bony years than this year in between.



+420//2 years ago it snow like half normal and was in for 40 ad 50/ highs all winter long. This season mostly in Catskills is B+


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 5, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> I'd say "C" is average. Or at least that's the most common standard.  Who rates every season an "A"?  I haven't seen anybody make mention of that in this thread.
> 
> For me this season is on par with 2010-11 (making it an A) and is better than the past 3 seasons (which were Bs and C). My memory and notes don't go back much further than that with any detail.  I do remember a horrible season that would have been an "F". Was that 06-07?


2006-7 is the season I'd rate "D", saved only by the "Valentine's Day" storm.
My "F" is the 2011-2: After October blockbuster storm, there was almost no natural snow all season. While the skiing was adequate on snowmaking trails, natural snow glade skiing and other aspects of the sport that involved natural snow, never materialized

But if you only remember back 4 seasons, and you agree that "C" is average - how can you have 2 seasons rated as "A"s? Something doesn't compute!!


----------



## catsup948 (Apr 5, 2015)

I'm giving this season a B.  It's hard because Berkshire East was very good for like 4.5 weeks but besides that it wasn't very good.  Lack of thaw made the season pretty awesome but basically it stopped snowing the second week of February and then it was brutally cold for the rest of the month.  March had limited spring skiing and now the mountain is closed.  Big bonus for me this season has been some high quality days away from home.  I think for me I have this feeling of wanting more.  Maybe I should know by now that this could be as good as it gets here in southern New England.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 5, 2015)

I think people have much more anal grading systems than I.  Most years fall in the B range for me.  C's and A's are the exceptions from the norm for the east.   A grade of D is not passing.  So, it would have to really be awful. There's maybe 3-4 of those in the last 30 years.   I would only grade a season an F if I had a season ending injury.


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 5, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I think people have much more anal grading systems than I.  Most years fall in the B range for me.  C's and A's are the exceptions from the norm for the east.   A grade of D is not passing.  So, it would have to really be awful. There's maybe 3-4 of those in the last 30 years.   I would only grade a season an F if I had a season ending injury.



Interesting.  Your bias for an "F" is a season ending injury.  I have a strong bias for how the industry does which on the surface makes no sense, since I am neither an owner nor a manager of a ski area.  However, I do think "how the industry does" has a large impact on the next season(s) in terms of proper maintenance vs. deferred maintenance; new lifts/terrain; snowmaking upgrades and amenities in general. So that's my rationale for giving it what some might consider to be "undue importance."


----------



## mishka (Apr 5, 2015)

I think it's very subjective in different what people think of same season.
For me this season is the best. Almost no weekend/holiday storms mostly midweek. more Powder day    in December and January this season than several years combined. First ever trip out West. managed to score untracked pow at BEast, magic and MRG.... Not to mention first time venture to MRG. Met many AZ members hope made new friends.
So for me based on comparison to previous season best


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 5, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> 2006-7 is the season I'd rate "D", saved only by the "Valentine's Day" storm.
> My "F" is the 2011-2: After October blockbuster storm, there was almost no natural snow all season. While the skiing was adequate on snowmaking trails, natural snow glade skiing and other aspects of the sport that involved natural snow, never materialized
> 
> But if you only remember back 4 seasons, and you agree that "C" is average - how can you have 2 seasons rated as "A"s? Something doesn't compute!!



You are right about 11-12.  It was a lousy year.  I would have given it a D or F, but I was injured and didn't get out much so I thought that might be skewing my grade.  But based on your validation I'll give it a Failing grade.

When I said I couldn't go beyond 5 years with detail, I meant that I can't call out specific grades for specific years.  But overall I still know the difference between failing, average, above average, and well above average.  For the past 5 years I have 1 D/F, 1 B/C, 1 B, and 2 As.  That says two things to me: 1) it's a fairly good distribution, and 2) with 2 As the past 5 years have been generally above average.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 5, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> Interesting.  Your bias for an "F" is a season ending injury.  I have a strong bias for how the industry does which on the surface makes no sense, since I am neither an owner nor a manager of a ski area.  However, I do think "how the industry does" has a large impact on the next season(s) in terms of proper maintenance vs. deferred maintenance; new lifts/terrain; snowmaking upgrades and amenities in general. So that's my rationale for giving it what some might consider to be "undue importance."



I obviously want the industry to remain fiscally healthy, but whether the ski areas do well financially or not has little to do with my personal enjoyment (grade) of my skiing experience in the current season.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 6, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> And to whine about the cold? Really? They make good clothing for that now a days, ya know. I think some of you need to take up parcheesi as a sport.


This makes no sense to me.  A calm 25 degree day is more enjoyable to ski in than a zero degree day with high winds - and I have clothing that can handle both.  This boils down to common sense, which is exactly what I use when I come up with my grade.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 6, 2015)

You do realize that the number one factor in why the snow quality has been so good this season is those cold temps you're complaining about.


----------



## fcksummer (Apr 6, 2015)

Inc


----------



## Smellytele (Apr 6, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> This makes no sense to me.  A calm 25 degree day is more enjoyable to ski in than a zero degree day with high winds - and I have clothing that can handle both.  This boils down to common sense, which is exactly what I use when I come up with my grade.



but what about a 10 below day with no wind and a 10 above day with high winds...


----------



## dlague (Apr 6, 2015)

There is already a thread for this discussion.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/134743-Season-Grade-So-Far-2014-2015?highlight=Grade

Mods - can you merger the two threads?


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 6, 2015)

dlague said:


> There is already a thread for this discussion.
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/134743-Season-Grade-So-Far-2014-2015?highlight=Grade
> 
> Mods - can you merger the two threads?


That thread was for a mid-season grade.  Not the same as this thread.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> You do realize that the number one factor in why the snow quality has been so good this season is those cold temps you're complaining about.


I would have traded some warmer days for snow that was slightly higher in moisture content.  It's subjective, after all.


----------



## C-Rex (Apr 6, 2015)

If I'm only talking about the East I give it an A.  Some people complain that it was too cold, but if it weren't as cold as it was I wouldn't have found fluffy stashes days after a storm.  That's pretty rare here in New England, especially southern New England.  I had enough powder days that I started to get spoiled.  The only thing that held my season back was me.  I didn't plan to need so much time off, and I didn't budget enough for random snow days.  Usually I try to stick to deals, but when it's dumping and I can blow off work, a pricey lift ticket is not going to stand between me and fresh tracks.

When I factor in my trip to Jackson I have to drop the grade to a B.  Don't get me wrong, that place is awesome and I really hope to go back one day, but I really just saw the potential it has without being able to experience it.  Spring conditions are great and all, but at a place as all-over steep as Jackson it means EVERYTHING is bumped up.  I don't mind moguls, even being a snowboarder, but when they are all you ride for a week, it takes a lot out of you.  By the 4th and 5th days I just didn't have the legs anymore.


----------



## St. Bear (Apr 6, 2015)

I always thought this thread implied the grades were based on your personal experience, not the region or industry as a whole.

For me, it's been a solid B.  A lot of fun days with decent to good conditions, a couple small powder days, a couple warm and soft spring days, but I missed all the big powder days for one reason or another.  Same with my trip out West, great spring skiing conditions with good coverage, but it's disappointing to travel thousands of miles for spring skiing.

Hopefully I'm not done yet, but I don't expect the few remaining days to change the grade much.

And it is all about timing.  For me 2012-13, which had generally similar snow but warmer temps I think, was an A because I hit 4 different powder days with no crowds that were awesome.  This season didn't work out like that, c'est la vie.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 6, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I would have traded some warmer days for snow that was slightly higher in moisture content.  It's subjective, after all.



Fair enough.  It doesn't compute for me, given your complaint of hard pack in the first post, but it is subjective yes.

I'm with Scruffy on this one.  I think a skier bitching about the cold is like a surfer complaining about it being too warm and sunny.  Too each their own.


----------



## joshua segal (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I obviously want the industry to remain fiscally healthy, but whether the ski areas do well financially or not has little to do with my personal enjoyment (grade) of my skiing experience in the current season.


Fair enough.  With the title of thread being, "Ski Season Grade", I didn't respond with a personal analysis - which I guess accounts for part of our difference in POV.



deadheadskier said:


> You do realize that the number one factor in why the snow quality has been so good this season is those cold temps you're complaining about.


It would have been fine with temps in the comfortable low 20's as well as single digits.  And wind and wind chill was a huge factor during Feb.  I deal with the cold as well as anyone, but for me a day with no wind, great snow and 20 degrees is going to provide me a superior day of skiing to one with great snow, wind and zero degrees.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Fair enough.  It doesn't compute for me, given your complaint of hard pack in the first post, but it is subjective yes.
> 
> I'm with Scruffy on this one.  I think a skier bitching about the cold is like a surfer complaining about it being too warm and sunny.  Too each their own.


This is where I may be wrong, but someone who knows a lot more about snow than I do said that one of the problems with the very light powder we had is that it didn't "bind" with the existing (post-thaw boilerplate) surface and was prone to blowing off of the trails.  As someone who does not spend all of his time in the trees, this is a factor for me.  

As far as the surfing analogy is concerned, I would say it's more like a surfer complaining about rain.  You can surf in the rain, but it's not as fun as a sunny day.  The same can be said of extreme cold - at least in my book.  It's not a huge deal to me, but it was enough to knock off a half letter grade or thereabouts.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 6, 2015)

joshua segal said:


> It would have been fine with temps in the comfortable low 20's as well as single digits.



Categorically false.  Why do you think the snow up at Stowe and Jay is far superior to what we get in Southern VT?  Because at 5 degrees, there's far less water content in the snow than there is at 20 degrees the majority of the time.   It isn't just the amount of snow Northern VT gets, it's the quality of snow.  In humid New England, the colder it is, the better the snow quality.  

Yesterday was the perfect example.  The fresh snow I skied at Loon was mank.  Go up to the road to Cannon where it was colder and apparently it was dry powder.


----------



## St. Bear (Apr 6, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> As far as the surfing analogy is concerned, I would say it's more like a surfer complaining about rain.  You can surf in the rain, but it's not as fun as a sunny day.  The same can be said of extreme cold - at least in my book.  It's not a huge deal to me, but it was enough to knock off a half letter grade or thereabouts.



While I'm not a surfer, I think rain is a good analogy.  Rain means storms which churn up the water creating larger waves, just like you need cold for snow and like DHS says below, colder temps keeps the moisture content down.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 6, 2015)

St. Bear said:


> While I'm not a surfer, I think rain is a good analogy.  Rain means storms which churn up the water creating larger waves, just like you need cold for snow and like DHS says below, colder temps keeps the moisture content down.


Exactly.  For my type of skiing, which is not the most predominant here, it is a very fair trade off.


----------



## yeggous (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Categorically false.  Why do you think the snow up at Stowe and Jay is far superior to what we get in Southern VT?  Because at 5 degrees, there's far less water content in the snow than there is at 20 degrees the majority of the time.   It isn't just the amount of snow Northern VT gets, it's the quality of snow.  In humid New England, the colder it is, the better the snow quality.
> 
> Yesterday was the perfect example.  The fresh snow I skied at Loon was mank.  Go up to the road to Cannon where it was colder and apparently it was dry powder.



Yes, cold temperatures are important. This is the reason that despite the unimpressive snowfall this year, the season ranks above my expectations. It was cold enough that almost all the snow fell as powder. I don't think I really had a wet and sticky snow day all year. That is the most remarkable part of the season for me.


----------



## dlague (Apr 6, 2015)

yeggous said:


> Yes, cold temperatures are important. This is the reason that despite the unimpressive snowfall this year, the season ranks above my expectations. It was cold enough that almost all the snow fell as powder. I don't think I really had a wet and sticky snow day all year. That is the most remarkable part of the season for me.



Very few thaw and referee days as well which is significant.  Conditions were well preserved with cold temps.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 6, 2015)

I will give the year a high B+. While I didn't score too many big days, I caught several of the smaller storms and being able to ski the woods 7 or 8 weeks straight was a blast. It could have gotten to an A if I didn't get hurt Saturday night and losing my spring or the 4 days I lost during Presidents week due to a calf strain. I'm not too harsh on January as I expect January to have at least a couple of thaws in Southern VT where I do most of my skiing. I was fine with the continued cold as it kept things really nice and all you had to do was dress properly and ski hard and it was fine.


----------



## KevinF (Apr 6, 2015)

How the hell are you people grading?  There was an eight week period of insanely good conditions.  No thaws, no rain events, just cold and snow, snow and more snow.  This is the single best season I can remember in the north-east!

I ski primarily at Stowe.  It seemed like I was skiing fluffiness on wide open trails more often than I wasn't.  Yes, there have been previous seasons when they got more snow (i.e., that 2000/2001 winter where the snow fences atop Starr got buried), but I was nowhere nearly as a good a skier then as I am now, so I couldn't enjoy it as much.

Yes, it has been crazy cold.  I've learned to dress for it and take more breaks.

I can't ever remember a season where conditions were as consistent everywhere as this one.


----------



## snoseek (Apr 6, 2015)

KevinF said:


> How the hell are you people grading?  There was an eight week period of insanely good conditions.  No thaws, no rain events, just cold and snow, snow and more snow.  This is the single best season I can remember in the north-east!
> 
> I ski primarily at Stowe.  It seemed like I was skiing fluffiness on wide open trails more often than I wasn't.  Yes, there have been previous seasons when they got more snow (i.e., that 2000/2001 winter where the snow fences atop Starr got buried), but I was nowhere nearly as a good a skier then as I am now, so I couldn't enjoy it as much.
> 
> ...




I was skiing back east for most of 10-11 and still follow your weather and it seems like both seasons are similar except maybe a little colder this year. It certainly was an outstanding season...I give that an A by East Coast standards for sure


----------



## dlague (Apr 6, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> That thread was for a mid-season grade.  Not the same as this thread.



In that case

A-

Broke our record for the most days in a season and still more to go.
Skied Banff - while not powder conditions that was still a boat load of great skiing
While it was cold for a chunk of the season - found conditions on some of those freezing days to have been the best days
Many discount the season because of the cold - skiing 40+ days - well that is going to happen. If a perfect season requires 27 degree days - then perfection will never be reached.

I take away a few points because by family has been putting the brakes on and it is bumming me out. We missed 5 potential skiing days in the past month.


----------



## ironhippy (Apr 6, 2015)

KevinF said:


> How the hell are you people grading?  There was an eight week period of insanely good conditions.  No thaws, no rain events, just cold and snow, snow and more snow.  This is the single best season I can remember in the north-east!



I agree completely, I've only gotten back into skiing the past 3 years, but this year blew away my expectations simply based on the continual cold weather. 

This season has been a solid A for me.. it started off slow, but made up for it.

Up here between mid Jan and March, we averaged at least a storm a week. We didn't get any HUGE dumps (we had several that were about a foot) but all the snow that fell stayed in powder form until we got a warm up in March.


----------



## C-Rex (Apr 7, 2015)

What I'm reading here just reinforces what I've learned over the years.  If you want to have a killer season, you have to get after it.  In the East, snow doesn't stay fluffy for weeks like it does out west.  And we don't have lift serviced areas with thousands of acres that take that long to get tracked out.  You have to keep an eye on the weather and position yourself to be in the right place at the right time.  If you sit around and wait for it to come to you, you're most likely going to be really disappointed.  People who only ski Saturday or Sunday and sit home when it goes below 20 degrees don't have the right to say the season wasn't good.  It was good, you just missed it.


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 7, 2015)

C-Rex said:


> If you sit around and wait for it to come to you, you're most likely going to be really disappointed.  People who only ski Saturday or Sunday and sit home when it goes below 20 degrees don't have the right to say the season wasn't good.  It was good, you just missed it.


Some people can't get out whenever they want to because of work and family obligations.  It seems a little harsh to tell them that they can't factor this into their personal grade.  And I've yet to see anyone say that they wouldn't ski if it is colder than twenty degrees.


----------



## 〽❄❅ (Apr 7, 2015)

C-Rex said:


> -If you want to have a killer season, you have to get after it. -
> -You have to keep an eye on the weather and position yourself to be in the right place at the right time. -
> -If you sit around and wait for it to come to you, you're most likely going to be really disappointed. -
> -


Allot easier for you to say up there in Enfield CT, it's a whole different ball game from where i'm sitting in Philadelphia! 
Believe me, had i known Smuggs was gonna get +9" this past Saturday, I would've forgot about holiday commitments and headed there last Friday!


----------



## AdironRider (Apr 7, 2015)

I hate to crush C-Rex's dreams, but very rarely does snow stay fluffy out west for weeks. 

Hours here in Jackson. 

The overall point of getting after it is spot on though. I can't even count how many banner days were made just by getting the hill an hour earlier than most.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Apr 7, 2015)

Since the other thread went dead I'll post it here:::

Record breaking season
Most & deepest powder days possibly ever
Still skiing mid winter conditions in April
Skiing 60 degrees April day at Sugarloaf and then Blizzard at Saddleback the next days
Bolton Valley knee deep powder
Pico December Birthday powder day

And Engaged to my future wife on a 60 degree sunny day in Can't Dog 2 Glade

Still got a few days left. Downside: cold and windy season. But no thaws for most of the season and cool temps means I'll get to ski an extra month than usual.
A+


----------



## Not Sure (Apr 7, 2015)

〽❄❅;900956 said:
			
		

> Allot easier for you to say up there in Enfield CT, it's a whole different ball game from where i'm sitting in Philadelphia!
> Believe me, had i known Smuggs was gonna get +9" this past Saturday, I would've forgot about holiday commitments and headed there last Friday!



Pa. was'nt much better than a C+ to a B, Many storm fails and ice glazing , Still colder and more snow than normal. 
Hard act to follow after last year.

There's always next year


----------



## Domeskier (Apr 8, 2015)

bdfreetuna said:


> And Engaged to my future wife on a 60 degree sunny day in Can't Dog 2 Glade



Congrats, Tuna!


----------



## mlctvt (Apr 8, 2015)

For me it was a "C". 
Very few powder days this season I'd say less than normal especially since most of the storms happened on Mondays, 4 storms for 4 Mondays in a row.  Now if they hit Friday that would have improved things nicely. I'm a weekend only skier. 

Plus I screwed up my back shoveling snow so my last day skiing was March 7th. My season was over then. Maybe next year the storms will hit on weekends or towards the end of the week. 

On to cycling, I'm probably one of the few here that looks forward to near 60 degrees this coming weekend.


----------



## fbrissette (Apr 8, 2015)

mlctvt said:


> For me it was a "C".
> 
> On to cycling, I'm probably one of the few here that looks forward to near 60 degrees this coming weekend.



Sarted riding my bicycle to work this morning.  I really enjoy the few weeks where I can ski in the morning and ride in the afternoon.


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 9, 2015)

fbrissette said:


> Sarted riding my bicycle to work this morning.  I really enjoy the few weeks where I can ski in the morning and ride in the afternoon.



Combine!


----------

