# M.S. Vermont, Feb 5, 2014



## billski (Feb 5, 2014)

Getting a little snoozy, but I want this info out tonight to benefit those on the deciding line...

Nice little journey to Dover last night, put me on the hill at opening bell.  There was about 5" down by 8AM.  The snow was moveable, but a bit heavier than blower pow.  Sounds like further north had lighter snow.  Definitely more work than last month's 12" in Mt. Wash Valley.  

Did some blues on the front face, started on Exhibition; it skied much, much better than last month.  There was enough snow that you could go pretty much anywhere without concern about picking your turns.  All the trails on front skied rather similarly, bumping up as they day went on per usual.  The snow continued heavy most of the the day, lightening up 10-11 and then after 3pm.  

This is definitely some of the best snow of the year.  Cross fingers, if temps stay cold, the stuff is malleable and will stay in place for a nice base.   

Here and there, especially on the steeps, the frozen granular raised its ugly face, but entirely avoidable.  Stayed on the main stuff for a while, then wandered over to Sunbrook, which had one of the most delightful trails, mostly because it was lightly tracked and hardly bumped up.  I think I skied most of the blues on the front.  I had fun on Ledge last time I was there, but it didn't look like fun today.   then got bored, so wandered over to North Face, which had some of the nicest skiing of the day.  The steeper pitch made slicing through this heavy pow much easier.  It wasn't at all windy in the morning.

As a general rule, there was no lift line anywhere. 

 Canyon express had some nice (ski) lines.  I don't think, from a conditions point of view there was a bad trail to be found.  There were still several closed trails, which, given the crappy year we've had, should have been open, with "thin cover" posted on top.  I guess that's not how MS does things.  I am told :wink:those closed trails skied quite nicely and were entirely safe.  

I was really surprised how bumped up the green trails were (see, I do go everywhere!).  

Now, the woods and glades are starting to come into play.  The experience ranged from heaven to hell.   On the heaven side, there was a couple of very nice areas where the base was good and there wasn't a lot of crap on the forest floor.  Skied like a dream.   On the flip, there was some areas that were not ready for prime time, mostly due to lack of coverage over small drainage and brooks.   I took a wet one for the Gipper, then got out of there.  Oh yeah, and don't bring your pretty skis in there.  I took a good one off some 6' rocks I didn't see!

I split the day 50/50 between named trails and everywhere else.  By about 2pm my legs were burning.  Took and hour sabbatical, went back out for the last hour, found a most wonderful woods stash, but then was bummed that it was getting near closing time and I didn't want to get stuck with no way home...

Net-net, got less snow than forecast, but plenty (maybe 8-10") to make it ski nice.  Snow was  bit heavy, but when you live in the east, you've got nothing to complain about.  I'm sure the groomers will flatten out the usual suspects which should make some most wonderful groomer trail skiing tomorrow and through the weekend for that matter.

Now, between you and us girls, let me share some observations.
First, (and this was the one that really made my socks rot), at 9:00 AM, first bell, I was major, major DISAPPOINTED when me and the rest of the paying public got on the lift to see trail after trail :uzi:ENTIRELY TRACKED OUT.  Seems :uzi:every frikkin employee got the goods and beat them hard.  Unbelievable.  There are always the privileged few (Ski Patrol and select others) who make a could of first tracks down a trail, I've come to expect that.  However, that people who paid good money, who in fact pay the salaries of said employees, deserve a good "product". This is NOT RIGHT.:smash:  An employee told me that not even pass-holders were on the mt. early.  OK, give them  couple trails.  But 'cmon, the whole freaking place?:angry:  I am NOT exaggerating.  A "product" is not just about grooming and snow-making.  It's about the experience. It's really indefensible.  

Next observation.  Reasons not to like the bubble chair.
1. You get to hear, loud and clear, the conversations by the brain dead boys who believe the only adjective begins with an F and ends in a K, sometimes with an "ing" thrown in. After about 12 of these in the first minute, I'm glad I had my tunes with me.  This happened three times.
2. You not only get to sit with those who drank way too much, but you hear it and smell it all over them.  
3. Then there was the boy (sorry, the immaturity just oozed from these 20-somethings) who bragged about how he bought none of the ski gear or clothes he owns.  :blink:  He "found" them.  Glad I brought my lock.  I moved on.

Next - the employees are trained in manners.  Imagine that, in America!   When I was say adieu, even the lifties said they hoped I had a nice day and would come back again.

Best thing they ever did was the free bag check.   So why don't the boys, and yes, I mean boys and only boys not use it?  

Why are there so many lid-less guys here? Mostly boarders.  WTF?  I used to think it was the old schoolers who resisted helmets.

I really like the base layout.  It's not a PITA to get from the lodge to the lifts.  Pretty much on the same level. 

OK, that's enough.  These are my impressions from someone who wanders from mountain to mountain never to own a pass.  Gives me a lot to compare with.  I'm sure I'll be hearing from Dr. J soon!


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## drjeff (Feb 5, 2014)

My guess is the pre 9AM track out today had to do with the slew of industry trade people who are at Mount Snow right now for the NSAA East trade show. They will often give them a day with early access privileges during the show, just like Mount Snow gives passholders 30 minutes of exclusive early access on Saturdays from early January through mid March.


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## billski (Feb 5, 2014)

drjeff said:


> My guess is the pre 9AM track out today had to do with the slew of industry trade people who are at Mount Snow right now for the NSAA East trade show. They will often give them a day with early access privileges during the show, just like Mount Snow gives passholders 30 minutes of exclusive early access on Saturdays from early January through mid March.


Thanks DJ.  I have no problem with pass-holders getting early access.  They paid their money.  Of all days to give them early access, today?  Who's more important?  It's not right.


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## ss20 (Feb 5, 2014)

Nice.  This should make a good base for when I'm there valentine's day.  There aren't any deals that day...none...not even a 49$ for 2 deal...everyone stay away 

Thanks for typing all this up.  Always happy to read a detailed report/rant.  Glad to hear you had a good time.  Sorry about the brain deads (they're usually in Carinthia but sometimes they branch out on days like today).


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2014)

billski said:


> Thanks DJ.  I have no problem with pass-holders getting early access.  They paid their money.  Of all days to give them early access, today?  Who's more important?  It's not right.




When the NSAA East snow show is in town, and it's been at Mount Snow the majority of the last 5 or 6 years (I believe it was held at Sunday River a year or two ago), Mount Snow tends to put on a pretty good time for all the other industry GM's/Marketing folks/manufacturers reps, etc who attend the show. And that does tend to include some early, exclusive time on the hill and riding the Bluebird (the folks at Leitner-Poma as well as Mount Snow and Peak resorts do tend to like showing that lift off to others within the industry  ). If you were looking around in the area immediately around the mountain side of the Grand Summit hotel, you probably would of seen some of the latest and greatest snowmaking equipment from many different manufacturers as well as a bunch of shiny new grooming vehicles that are brought in for the industry type to check out as they're contemplating their capital improvement expenditures for next season.

As both a snowmaking and grooming equipment "geek" as well as an obvious fan of Mount Snow, I always enjoy the week or 2 leading up to the NSAA snow show as well as the week or 2 after it since there's always lots of new equipment around to check out! As well as it's fun to talk to my friends in mountain ops to see what impressed them and what might very well end up in Mount Snow snowmaking and grooming "aresenal" for next season - yes, I DO have a ski hill production and maintenance equipment issues!   :lol:


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## billski (Feb 6, 2014)

Oh joy.  Well, I'd much rather ski with the limited vacation days and money I have.  

While I appreciate your gear geek-ness, it's of very little interest to me.  If you're going to give me a half a$$ "product", then charge me as much.  For all the money they must be dumping into that gear production perhaps a $30 ticket and I wouldn't B1tch so much.  I'm sure you must have the ear of the people who make these decision.  How many people are there that can incur so much damage in two hours past sunrise?  Must have been hundreds who were long gone by 9am.  

There also were quite a few employees who were dressed in their civi's out skiing all day.  I know because I struck up a conversation with several of them.  When I commented to them about the 9am carnage, all I got was air silence.  When pressed, they said they knew who it was, but would go no further.

I have skied MS many times and thought I'd give it out on pow day.  Probably not a wise choice.  If fair warning had been provided to the general non-geek public, I would have gone elsewhere.  You have a real customer satisfaction issue with me which is not going to be ameliorated any time soon.  .


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2014)

billski said:


> Oh joy.  Well, I'd much rather ski with the limited vacation days and money I have.
> 
> While I appreciate your gear geek-ness, it's of very little interest to me.  If you're going to give me a half a$$ "product", then charge me as much.  For all the money they must be dumping into that gear production perhaps a $30 ticket and I wouldn't B1tch so much.  I'm sure you must have the ear of the people who make these decision.  How many people are there that can incur so much damage in two hours past sunrise?  Must have been hundreds who were long gone by 9am.
> 
> ...



No offense Billski, but if you want a bunch of untracked powder on a powder day, then why, even mid-week, head to a "larger/major" resort? They tend to have the most amount of employees, many of whom DO have days off mid-week, plus a larger number of locals, all of whom are there and eager to track up the fresh snow, so that doesn't help either. And that set up is regardless of the presence or absence of a convention at a resort.

As for the number of folks attending the NSAA snow show, I don't know the exact numbers, but it typically between industry manufacturers and equipment reps is in the hundreds, as the NSAA (national ski areas association) only has 2 of these big trade shows across the country during ski season annually,  one in the West which was at Steamboat a few weeks ago and then then the Eastern show at Mount Snow this week.  So basically if any ski area across the country (and sometimes even from other countries) want to attend, they're sending one or more of their reps to either of these shows.  This is one of the ski industries BIG trade events, where many of the products that allow us to enjoy this sport that we love so much, are sold to the areas that we enjoy.  

Plus, I do know, having read Mount Snow's daily snow reports the last few days, that they did make mention of the show, and even one day as their snowreport picture of the day, posted a shot of one of the snowcats being used in an operators "skills" challenge, so it's not like they were trying to hide the fact that they had an event there this week and turn it into some "black ops" thing!


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## skifree (Feb 6, 2014)

when was pix of bluebird taken? looks ski on.


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2014)

skifree said:


> when was pix of bluebird taken? looks ski on.



Having watched the webcam from Mount Snow yesterday as I was home in CT, the line for the Bluebird in the dozen or so times I looked over the course of the day, appeared to be practically ski on (or at least ski right into the final loading queue which is about 10 chairs of folks maximum) the vast majority of the day - kind of surprised me in a way, but knowing that much of the traffic on a powder day at Mount Snow tends to head to the Northface I can see how that would be


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## skifree (Feb 6, 2014)

drjeff said:


> Having watched the webcam from Mount Snow yesterday as I was home in CT, the line for the Bluebird in the dozen or so times I looked over the course of the day, appeared to be practically ski on (or at least ski right into the final loading queue which is about 10 chairs of folks maximum) the vast majority of the day - kind of surprised me in a way, but knowing that much of the traffic on a powder day at Mount Snow tends to head to the Northface I can see how that would be


makes sense. I wouldn't be lapping bluebird on a powder day either.


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## Glenn (Feb 6, 2014)

Nice TR Bill. Hoping the woods ski good this weekend. I'm sure the snow will bring the crowds.


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## billski (Feb 6, 2014)

skifree said:


> when was pix of bluebird taken? looks ski on.


mid day.  Every lift was ski on all day.  maybe a brief spell of 2 or 3 chair wait.  Explains some of my fatigue!


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## billski (Feb 6, 2014)

drjeff said:


> vast majority of the day - kind of surprised me in a way,


  NF wasn't busy at all.  It appeared that the weight of the snow burned out a lot of people pretty early.  The place was surprisingly cleared out by 3pm.


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## mlctvt (Feb 6, 2014)

When I looked at the on mountain cams yesterday morning just after 8am I could see skiers on the Bluebird, lots of them. I assumed that the mountain opened early since it was a powder day?  Must of been the industry reps


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## billski (Feb 6, 2014)

drjeff said:


> No offense Billski, but if you want a bunch of untracked powder on a powder day, then why, even mid-week, head to a "larger/major" resort? They tend to have the most amount of employees, many of whom DO have days off mid-week, plus a larger number of locals, all of whom are there and eager to track up the fresh snow, so that doesn't help either. And that set up is regardless of the presence or absence of a convention at a resort.



One deciding factor was that MS has a substantial number of acres (588].  With that number, I figured there was plenty of room for everyone to spread out.   All of my on slope photos looked identical to the two I shared.  Worst case, there was about five or six skiers that zoomed past me, then it was me, myself and one or two others the whole way down.  This lived up to my expectations of crowds at MS, so I'll stand by that choice as a solid one.

Regarding numbers of employees, I've skied Sugarbush, Jay and Stowe on powder days and have never, ever seen employees consume so much snow so quickly.

In 40 years of skiing, I've consistently found the best skiing early in a powder day is on-piste, right in front of your face.  It's only late in the morning that you need to start looking farther afield.  There is a method to my madness.


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## billski (Feb 6, 2014)

mlctvt said:


> When I looked at the on mountain cams yesterday morning just after 8am I could see skiers on the Bluebird, lots of them. I assumed that the mountain opened early since it was a powder day?  Must of been the industry reps


  No, no no.  The lifts did not open to the public until 9.  That was the masses of equipment junkies trashing the slopes before the paying customers.   Evidence at hand...


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2014)

mlctvt said:


> When I looked at the on mountain cams yesterday morning just after 8am I could see skiers on the Bluebird, lots of them. I assumed that the mountain opened early since it was a powder day?  Must of been the industry reps



Nah, it was probably just Hermitage Club members since their mountain isn't open until tomorrow and they felt like skiing more than 3-400 vertical feet at a time  :lol:


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## Gilligan (Feb 6, 2014)

billski said:


> No, no no.  The lifts did not open to the public until 9.  That was the masses of equipment junkies trashing the slopes before the paying customers.   Evidence at hand...



I am with you, Billski. Very poor of Mount Snow to let this happen. Either open the lifts early for everyone, or make them wait until 9am like everyone else.


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## sf77 (Feb 6, 2014)

ss20 said:


> Nice.  This should make a good base for when I'm there valentine's day.  There aren't any deals that day...none...not even a 49$ for 2 deal...everyone stay away



They do have the Valentines deals:
http://mountsnow.com/event/?detaillink=12480
2 tickets for $49


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## sf77 (Feb 6, 2014)

Nice report. I bet the foot of fresh powder skied very well!
You had much better conditions then when I was there this past weekend.


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## ss20 (Feb 6, 2014)

ss20 said:


> Nice.  This should make a good base for when I'm there valentine's day.  There aren't any deals that day...none...not even a 49$ for 2 deal...everyone stay away





sf77 said:


> They do have the Valentines deals:
> http://mountsnow.com/event/?detaillink=12480
> 2 tickets for $49



sssssshhhhhhh!!!


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## Newpylong (Feb 6, 2014)

Way too much b*tching in this ski report for a Pow day. Jeez...


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## 2knees (Feb 7, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> Way too much b*tching in this ski report for a Pow day. Jeez...




My thoughts exactly...


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> Way too much b*tching in this ski report for a Pow day. Jeez...



I disagree.  Calling them out on it is appropriate.  A little focus on the paying public on a pow day keeps the customers.  Read back on my pow day TR's,you'll find this is the first time I've had issues, large or small ski operations.


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## slatham (Feb 7, 2014)

Billski, you sound like you'd enjoy Magic. It was awesome yesterday. Check out pics and vid from Facebook. Also a trip report on AZ as well.

I can confirm it was NSAA - one of the guys was at Magic yesterday and said they got an early look at Mt Snow on Wednesday.

BTW, he was in line like all the rest of us at Magic. And he was very happy to be there.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

slatham said:


> Billski, you sound like you'd enjoy Magic.


Hi slatham,
Thanks for the Magic good vibes.   As I write this I have four Magic vouchers in my pocket.  I've been to Magic every year since they reopened (7 years now?)  and was last there in January.   Been to a couple of pow days there as well.  I only had Wednesday off and Magic had no intention of opening on that day (I asked), so I went elsewhere.  Seemed like a good decision at the time.  While generally midweek would be a good bet to bring a mass of people, the way it was not managed operationally gives one pause.  Take a look at Stowe, another "big" ski area.  They bring in hundreds of their execs from AIG (yes, I'll still call it that) every year for their annual playtime.  It is handled very discretely and never once have I seen it impact the customer experience.  I ski at Stowe several times a year.


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## Abubob (Feb 7, 2014)

Nice full report. I like a lot of details interspersed with "illustrations" and photos.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though, but was the "big" storm on the 5th? Meaning that Mt Snow got maybe a couple inches on Sunday and maybe a couple inches before opening on Wednesday. Wasn't it snowing all day - meaning every run was fresh? Under those circumstances how could you expect _*any*_ fresh tracks other than what might fill in between runs?


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

Abubob said:


> Meaning that Mt Snow got maybe a couple inches on Sunday and maybe a couple inches before opening on Wednesday. Wasn't it snowing all day - meaning every run was fresh? Under those circumstances how could you expect _*any*_ fresh tracks other than what might fill in between runs?



There was 4-5" on the ground at 9am.  Regardless of the amount, there should have been "fresh tracks" at 9am.  I don't consider 6-8' of chop with a half inch to inch fill in to be "fresh tracks."  Not anything one could glide through.


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## Euler (Feb 7, 2014)

Mt. Snow was hosting some special guests that day.  They gave their special guests a treat.  Seems reasonable to me.  4 inches of untracked is hardly an epic powder day...really doesn't seem worth all the angst your expressing.Had it been a weekend, passholders would have been on the hill for an hour before you via the "fresh tracks program".  Part of the AZ get-together at Sugarloaf has been early access to the slopes, I think.   I think this is much ado about nothing.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

Euler said:


> Mt. Snow was hosting some special guests that day.  They gave their special guests a treat.  Seems reasonable to me.  4 inches of untracked is hardly an epic powder day...really doesn't seem worth all the angst your expressing.Had it been a weekend, passholders would have been on the hill for an hour before you via the "fresh tracks program".  Part of the AZ get-together at Sugarloaf has been early access to the slopes, I think.   I think this is much ado about nothing.



"epic" was not my choice of words.  As I said before, I have no problem with passholders getting first tracks; they wouldn't have pummeled the place so badly.  It's definitely worth calling it out, angst it is not.  Maybe I'd think differently if I could afford a season pass.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 7, 2014)

The early bird should be able to get the worm. If they open lifts early everyone who's there should be able to ride them, not just a select few. This is especially true on a powder day but even on any given day to be able to hit the fresh cord before it's skied out. I'd be pissed to if I was there. I'm a pass holder at a different mountain & they have no such policy to let us ski before others. Only thing they do is have a pass holder only day when the area first opens for the season to keep the crowds down because of limited open terrain.


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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2014)

I say, good for the industry folks, who all too often on a powder day are clearing and line checking lifts, getting snow reports ready, getting the lodge + parking lots ready, etc all while we tear up the powder. By coincidence if a powder day falls during one of their limited annual convention days, good for the folks who devote so much time and effort to let us have fun to enjoy the goods themselves!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## lerops (Feb 7, 2014)

drjeff said:


> I say, good for the industry folks, who all too often on a powder day are clearing and line checking lifts, getting snow reports ready, getting the lodge + parking lots ready, etc all while we tear up the powder. By coincidence if a powder day falls during one of their limited annual convention days, good for the folks who devote so much time and effort to let us have fun to enjoy the goods themselves!
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



Be that as it may, the mountain owes it paying customers a heads-up saying that the industry folks will get the mountain to themselves before it opens. I am sure Mt. Snow (like all others) advertised it as "we got tons of snow, come here, ski/ride in fresh powder".

I think billski is absolutely within his rights to complain here. This tells me something about Mt. Snow.

PS: I dont know, but I really don't think the industry reps at conventions like this are the lifties, lodge employees, etc.


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## Gilligan (Feb 7, 2014)

drjeff said:


> I say, good for the industry folks, who all too often on a powder day are clearing and line checking lifts, getting snow reports ready, getting the lodge + parking lots ready, etc all while we tear up the powder. By coincidence if a powder day falls during one of their limited annual convention days, good for the folks who devote so much time and effort to let us have fun to enjoy the goods themselves!


I say - stop being such a freaking homer! Your mountain screwed up. Just admit it already.


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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2014)

They did mention the fact that the NSAA show was in town on their snow reports earlier this week

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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2014)

lerops said:


> Be that as it may, the mountain owes it paying customers a heads-up saying that the industry folks will get the mountain to themselves before it opens. I am sure Mt. Snow (like all others) advertised it as "we got tons of snow, come here, ski/ride in fresh powder".
> 
> I think billski is absolutely within his rights to complain here. This tells me something about Mt. Snow.
> 
> PS: I dont know, but I really don't think the industry reps at conventions like this are the lifties, lodge employees, etc.



And I'm quite sure from hearing about past, non Mount Snow NSAA conferences that every host resort, East or West does an "early access" day. Would folks be complaining if it was just a groomer day? 

There was even per Billski's own admission only 4" or so at the opening bell, not exactly knee deep stuff, and even at the closing bell Mount Snow reported 9" - so the refresh was on all day. 

Frankly unless one belongs to say The Hermitage Club or is cat or heli skiing, does anyone realistically expect multiple runs of untracked on trail powder at a ski area these days? If they do, then I'm sure they'd also be interested in buying a bridge in Brooklyn!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

drjeff said:


> I say, good for the industry folks, who all too often on a powder day are clearing and line checking lifts, getting snow reports ready, getting the lodge + parking lots ready, etc all while we tear up the powder. By coincidence if a powder day falls during one of their limited annual convention days, good for the folks who devote so much time and effort to let us have fun to enjoy the goods themselves!
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



You've got the logic flipped backwards there Herr Doktor.  As lerops so aptly calls it, It's the revenue from customers who pay their salaries, pay the debt, pay the operating expense.  It's not a charity and these poor industry folks are earning their living.  If they were customer-centric, they wouldn't put themselves first.  Nobody forced these good folks to work in this industry.  Go enjoy it, on your day off, in line with the rest of us.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

drjeff said:


> They did mention the fact that the NSAA show was in town on their snow reports earlier this week
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


  So what's that mean to me?  How am I to know that they were going to impact the quality of the "product" I paid for.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

drjeff said:


> And I'm quite sure from hearing about past, non Mount Snow NSAA conferences that every host resort, East or West does an "early access" day. Would folks be complaining if it was just a groomer day?


  Yes. 



drjeff said:


> There was even per Billski's own admission only 4" or so at the opening  bell, not exactly knee deep stuff, and even at the closing bell Mount  Snow reported 9" - so the refresh was on all day.


  Is it  your call on what's considered a "good product"?  Is it your call on what a "refresh" is?  Problem was it was already so trashed at 9am that it made the skiing chopped for everyone.   If you go back and read my remarks, you should have noticed that a half inch to an inch an hour does nothing to ameliorate the damage.  



drjeff said:


> Frankly unless one belongs to say The Hermitage Club or is cat or heli  skiing, does anyone realistically expect multiple runs of untracked on  trail powder at a ski area these days? If they do, then I'm sure they'd  also be interested in buying a bridge in Brooklyn!


  Now that's reading way too far into it.  Please Jeff, go back and read the thread and don't cherry-pick it.   Where in the thread did I state that I expected untracked powder all day.   It's clear you are being uber-defensive about this and can't call a spade a spade.  A good experience for you isn't necessarily a good experience for everyone.  You are missing the point that there was no sensitivity for the paying public on Wednesday or are just in denial.  Please keep the Brooklyn Bridge Jeff.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

So who got these tracks?  Sure wasn't a paying customer!




Switch and bait.  

And by the way, please don't tell me you can't do anything with 4" of snow like these boys did.


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## billski (Feb 7, 2014)

And to quote MS directly,  "Here's a little taste of what you'll see in today's Mount Snow Minute. Enjoy!"
which accompanied this video:


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## Abubob (Feb 8, 2014)

billski said:


> So who got these tracks?  Sure wasn't a paying customer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like it was loaded early enough on the 5th that it got over a thousand views that day. The caption sure makes it sound like this is what to expect. More like "Take a good look cause you sure ain't getting any!"

Anyway, Billski hope you're skiing it off. Just call me a lazy slack ass cause I'm not out there today so I'm just gonna watch that video over and over like it says to.


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## lerops (Feb 8, 2014)

drjeff said:


> They did mention the fact that the NSAA show was in town on their snow reports earlier this week
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



Did they say NSAA owned the slopes pre-opening?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## billski (Feb 8, 2014)

You have to dig through the NSSA program to find out about the 8am -10:30 am first tracks access.   Not something a customer is apt to do.  

This thread all started with some remarks I made about the place being beat up at opening time.  The tenor is now feeling a lot like the Qurke mounqain controversy.   The high road would be simply acknowledge a management mistake had been made, apologize and make a commitment to manage this better the next time an event such as this occurs.   

A rather simple solution would be to rope off certain trails, or, rope in the "first trackers", rather than give them free run of the place.  I suspect that Mt. Snow management never expected that so many people could entirely trash the slopes in an hour.  I am certain from a planning point of view, doing this on a weekday was a reasonable choice to make.  However the operational operation was mismanaged.  Simple as that.   

I am a big, enthusiastic advocate of all ski areas and wish them all the best in longevity.  However, I will still call out a disappointment, which was what it was for me.  We all make mistakes.  Acknowledge, apologize and move on.


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2014)

billski said:


> You have to dig through the NSSA program to find out about the 8am -10:30 am first tracks access.   Not something a customer is apt to do.
> 
> This thread all started with some remarks I made about the place being beat up at opening time.  The tenor is now feeling a lot like the Qurke mounqain controversy.   The high road would be simply acknowledge a management mistake had been made, apologize and make a commitment to manage this better the next time an event such as this occurs.
> 
> ...



And I'm sure that for next years NSAA East show, the host mountain, will be sure to contact mother nature the 6+ months in advance that the show itinerary is set and ensure that it won't snow on that day that they pre-plan a first tracks session  

And talking with someone who was part of the "screw Billski out of fresh tracks in 5" of fresh" conspiracy this morning. The 1st Bubble full of industry folks went up just before 7:50, there were just over 100 people in the first tracks session, and realistically, from a good source, if anyone, industry or not was there early, and wasn't giving the lifties an attitude, they would of been let on the Bluebird to join the industry folks, since they like to talk with the general public quite a bunch!

Plus, I now have some solid leads as to Mount Snow's improvement ideas for next season too now 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## billski (Feb 8, 2014)

drjeff said:


> And I'm sure that for next years NSAA East show, the host mountain, will be sure to contact mother nature the 6+ months in advance that the show itinerary is set and ensure that it won't snow on that day that they pre-plan a first tracks session
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


Hmm.  I guess you didn't read my last comment.  I indicated that the long-term plan was entirely reasonable at the time, but that a better short-term (operational) decision could have been made.



drjeff said:


> The 1st Bubble full of  industry folks went up just before 7:50, there were just over 100 people  in the first tracks session, and realistically,
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


Wow, It didn't take many people to track out the entire mountain eh?



drjeff said:


> and realistically, from a good source, if  anyone, industry or not was there early, and wasn't giving the lifties  an attitude, they would of been let on the Bluebird to join the industry  folks, since they like to talk with the general public quite a bunch!
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



Everyone I saw, myself included were waiting around in the lodge waiting for 9am to come.  Nobody announced such an offering that you suggested.  



drjeff said:


> And talking with someone who was part of the "screw Billski out of fresh  tracks in 5" of fresh"
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app



Now where did this conspiracy idea come from?  Wasn't mine, but I can see how you believe I was the only one miffed by this.  Conspiracy or not, nobody has yet to step forth and acknowledge it was an issue. It would have been more educational for you to talk to the paying public rather than to joke about it with corporate insiders.   

I'm really surprised you are continuing this dialogue.  I was more than happy to leave it at expressing my disappointment.  However, as long as Herr Doktor cares to, I'm happy to continue.


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## Madroch (Feb 11, 2014)

Hit the bb at 9:15- found everything tracked out- wondered what the hell happened- now I know.

Otherwise- any day with fresh is good, and this was good.  Heavy bit workable.


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## vcunning (Feb 11, 2014)

Just an opinion . . . the NSAA is actually a paying customer too.  There is quite a bit of food, beverage, lodging and meeting space that Mount Snow would not enjoy normally during the mid-week.  The difference might be that everyone under the NSAA umbrella sees this as the one time they can rip it up, because their day jobs don't really give them the opportunity.

But NSAA is also a customer.


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## Riverskier (Feb 11, 2014)

This is incredibly cut and dry, and (sorry Mt snow homers) Billski is right here. Mt. Snow can do whatever they want with their mountain, including letting large private groups carve up the mountain prior to opening to the public. However, that fact should absolutely be made clear in their mountain report the day prior and the day of any such special arrangements, at the very least. Without notification, the natural and appropriate assumption from the paying public is that the trails would just see the normal patrol traffic prior to opening for that day. Of course for most this is more important on a powder day, but this is no less true on a groomer day from both a techincal and practical standpoint. Along those lines, I would certainly be much more disapointed to find the mountain tracked out on a powder day, but fresh cord is pretty fun too and should be expected at opening bell.


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## Riverskier (Feb 11, 2014)

vcunning said:


> Just an opinion . . . the NSAA is actually a paying customer too. There is quite a bit of food, beverage, lodging and meeting space that Mount Snow would not enjoy normally during the mid-week. The difference might be that everyone under the NSAA umbrella sees this as the one time they can rip it up, because their day jobs don't really give them the opportunity.
> 
> But NSAA is also a customer.



Not sure the context of your comments, but I am not sure anyone is saying that the NSAA members are not paying customers per say. However, they received a benefit other paying customers did not. If Mt Snow decided to open early that day for all "paying customers" in honor of the NSAA convention, I am not sure there would be any debate here. The "paying customers" from the NSAA received a benefit other paying customers did not, and therein lies the problem (depending on your perspective). If Mt Snow had made that distinction clear, the "other paying customers" could have/should have been able to take that fact into consideration in determining where they would have skied that day.


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## Newpylong (Feb 12, 2014)

billski said:


> I disagree.  Calling them out on it is appropriate.  A little focus on the paying public on a pow day keeps the customers.  Read back on my pow day TR's,you'll find this is the first time I've had issues, large or small ski operations.



You went to Mount Snow on a powder day and expected Magic. Enough said...

Not defending the mountain, sounds like a d*ck move on their part - just not where I would have gone. You never know what will happen at a big mountain...


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