# Beginner Help.



## Sugart (Jan 31, 2012)

A little background first. I am currently visiting my in laws in south Florida and had the opportunity to do some trail riding at Oleta River State Park. Long story short, I had an awesome time and this was on my nephews bike, nieces helmet, and boat shoes. We did some easy, intermediate, and even one hard trail that absolutely killed me. I was gassed and falling more than riding at one point, but i kept thinking that this was something I could def get into once the snow melts. 

So after doing some research on whether there are trails near my house(there is), I decided to start looking at bikes. I not looking to break the bank so I would like to limit myself to 500, but I cant seem to figure out whats good in that range. I find  something that is listed as a mountain bike (trek 3500), but when I look for reviews, everyone says its not and that its made for gravel. Now I actually want to ride some trails, so I want something that can handle it.  Here is where the problem comes in. Is this sport really as elitist as the internet makes it sound? Sorry if that offends anyone, but its really what Im finding. 500 isnt enough go up to 800. That bike wont last you a year. Those are the comments that I am finding all over the place. I guess my point is that there has to be good quality bikes out there that I can ride on trails and be reliable for my price. If the manufacturers only make quality products in the upper price ranges, how is anyone supposed to be introduced. Thats a bad business model, catering only to the people who are already involved. I will be visiting my LBS when I get home(see I already have your lingo down), but I dont want to be talked into a bike that doesnt fit my needs or wants. 


Short version. I am looking for a hard tail mtb around 500 that will be dependable and handle everything a beginner can throw at it, plus room to grow. Does it even exist?


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## o3jeff (Jan 31, 2012)

Glad you liked mtb, where are you from?

Go to your LBS and get as much bike as you can for the money, now is the time to get a leftover bike before the nice weather comes and everyone starts to think biking!


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## severine (Jan 31, 2012)

Definitely see what's on clearance as a leftover bike. Feb-March is a great time to buy and your LBS will be of great help.

Where can you cut costs? You can get a hardtail. My 1st (and still only) mountain bike is a Specialized Hardrock that I got for $350 as a leftover on clearance at my LBS.

There are some people who are very elitist about any sport you get into. Don't let them get to you. You have to start somewhere. Enjoy!


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## zakyr (Feb 1, 2012)

Trek 3700 Disc. Lists for $499.99 and is a great beginner/intermediate bike.

Got one last year and it has been great


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## bvibert (Feb 1, 2012)

I agree with the above, go to the LBS and see what they have in your price range.  There probably won't be a ton of selection, but anything they carry will be good for getting started on.  Be aware though, that the sport can be addictive, and you may find yourself lusting after more expensive parts/bikes before too long... 

The most important thing is to make sure you get a bike that fits.  Each manufacturer/model will have a slightly different fit, so try out as many different bikes that you can (visit multiple shops if possible).  After fit I'd try to get the bike with the best fork in your price range, though you may not find much difference at that level.  Disc brakes and better derailleurs are nice, but shouldn't be deal breakers.


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## Sugart (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Has anyone had experience with bikesdirect.com. Seems like if you know what your looking for  you can get alot of bike for the money.


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## severine (Feb 1, 2012)

Sugart said:


> Thanks for the thoughts so far. Has anyone had experience with bikesdirect.com. Seems like if you know what your looking for  you can get alot of bike for the money.


I wouldn't recommend it for a newbie. Just my humble opinion, but fit is really important and not so easy to accomplish ordering on the internet.


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## bvibert (Feb 1, 2012)

Sugart said:


> Thanks for the thoughts so far. Has anyone had experience with bikesdirect.com. Seems like if you know what your looking for  you can get alot of bike for the money.



They might be a good option if you know what you're looking at, and know how to work on the bike yourself.


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## Sugart (Feb 4, 2012)

Visited the LBS today and learned alot. Guys there were really nice and I didnt feel pressured at all( which I feared). They recommended a KHS either a 11 or 12 model. Obviously a better deal on the 11. Still gonna shop around some more, but I really want to support the local store.


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## MR. evil (Feb 5, 2012)

Unless you get a sweet deal on a leftover $500 is not going to get you much of a mountain bike, especially I'd you plan on riding rocky technical trails that really put some wear on your bike . What you need to understand is that its not the frame that will fail on a $500 bike, it's everything else. To get the bike at that price point they cut corners on all of the other parts.  My advice would be to get a leftover bike in the $500 to $700 range and ride the piss out of it. Only replace / fix smaller less expensive things as they break. If you really get into MTBg and ride alot that bike will eventually die on you, but by that time you will probably want something nicer anyway. But if you decide that mountain biking isn't for you, your not out that much $$$.

FWIW, my first FS bike was from IBEX.com (similar to BikesDirect). I knew what I wanted / need in terms of bike sizing so there wasn't much risk. The bike was really solid and a great value. I could have parts the parts on the bikes (everything minus the frame) from a bike shop or internet bike shop for the price I paid for the whole bike.


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## o3jeff (Feb 5, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> FWIW, my first FS bike was from IBEX.com (similar to BikesDirect). I knew *Shari* wanted / need in terms of bike sizing so there wasn't much risk.



Who is Shari?


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## MR. evil (Feb 5, 2012)

One more thing, if want to get the best deal you can from a bike shop, stay away from the big 3 brands (Spesh, Trek, Cannondale) and look at bikes from Giant, KHS, Jamis, Scott, Kona and so on. IMO those brands offer better parts specs for the same money as the big 3. With the big 3 a lot of what you are paying is for the name on the down tube.


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## MR. evil (Feb 5, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Who is Shari?



Dam iPhone spell check does some weird things........ (don't tell Randi about Shari)


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## o3jeff (Feb 5, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Dam iPhone spell check does some weird things........ (don't tell Randi about Shari)



Hook a brotha up!


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## severine (Feb 5, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> Hook a brotha up!



I don't think you need any help in that department! Are you working on a harem?


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## mattm59 (Feb 12, 2012)

Sugart said:


> Has anyone had experience with bikesdirect.com.



Yeah, bought 2 dawes Haymakers 1500's from them, one for my son, one for me nearly 3 years back, now. I upgraded the brakes from the noisy tektro Novelas to Avid BB7's for a reasonable price (JensonUSA.com). Though I lust for a full suspension Kona or Specialized, and a 29'er as well (gawd it's like boats, an after selling 6, i still have 6), I'm still quite happy with my $420 choice. Just under $500 with the brake upgrade. I'm looking hard at their FS Motobecane 29'ers now, and am glad they're sold out, because I really don't need the "wrath of momma" right now 

I have a Trek 3900 as well, cost about the same, not a bad bike, but definitely lesser components. I use it more as a street/trail doink around bike now. My son and I  put the Dawes through more the first month we got them  (turned the original rotors purple on J-bar up at Kingdom trail, and numerous crashes for both of us) than we had in 4 years on our Treks, and they're holding up well, rims and cranks straight, no cracks etc...

I know what you're talking about with the elitist crap. There's a group who frequent the same trails I do, we're usually finishing up when they arrive, and I swear it's due to me being on a cheap bike why they won't even say "hi". Screw 'em, they suck anyways, and I love doing an extra lap just so I can say "on your right" a few times...even if it kills meuke:


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## powhunter (Feb 13, 2012)

mattm59 said:


> Yeah, bought 2 dawes Haymakers 1500's from them, one for my son, one for me nearly 3 years back, now. I upgraded the brakes from the noisy tektro Novelas to Avid BB7's for a reasonable price (JensonUSA.com). Though I lust for a full suspension Kona or Specialized, and a 29'er as well (gawd it's like boats, an after selling 6, i still have 6), I'm still quite happy with my $420 choice. Just under $500 with the brake upgrade. I'm looking hard at their FS Motobecane 29'ers now, and am glad they're sold out, because I really don't need the "wrath of momma" right now
> 
> I have a Trek 3900 as well, cost about the same, not a bad bike, but definitely lesser components. I use it more as a street/trail doink around bike now. My son and I  put the Dawes through more the first month we got them  (turned the original rotors purple on J-bar up at Kingdom trail, and numerous crashes for both of us) than we had in 4 years on our Treks, and they're holding up well, rims and cranks straight, no cracks etc...
> 
> I know what you're talking about with the elitist crap. There's a group who frequent the same trails I do, we're usually finishing up when they arrive, and I swear it's due to me being on a cheap bike why they won't even say "hi". Screw 'em, they suck anyways, and I love doing an extra lap just so I can say "on your right" a few times...even if it kills meuke:



Off topic but did you and cloudy get a ride in last week?  Now that I can take weekends off..Hope to join you guys in the spring

Steveo


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## mattm59 (Feb 13, 2012)

*yeah we had fun*

went to Waldo, and Cloudy gave the tour. 4 of us, me, my son Aaron, and a fb friend Steve. About 90 minutes, short but fun. Trail was in great shape. Almost went yesterday at sessions; thought it was too cold and hiked with some friends instead, but when we got there it was warmer than home and saw about 4 folks biking. Looking forward to meeting up. No technical ability on my part, but I have a lot of fun.


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## Sugart (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the info Matt. Ive been to 3 LBS. One didnt carry mtb, just bmx, one I really like the service, but they didnt have a lot in the selection department, and the last one was just the opposite, great selection, lousy service. 

Ive been doing a ton of research, and feel pretty confindent about ordering from bikesdirect. Ive already started buying gear to ride, just need the actual bike now. Sucks that winter finally decided to show up. I ve got 6 weeks off of work at the end of Feb, hopefully it warms up a little.


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## MR. evil (Feb 14, 2012)

Sugart said:


> Thanks for the info Matt. Ive been to 3 LBS. One didnt carry mtb, just bmx, one I really like the service, but they didnt have a lot in the selection department, and the last one was just the opposite, great selection, lousy service.
> 
> Ive been doing a ton of research, and feel pretty confindent about ordering from bikesdirect. Ive already started buying gear to ride, just need the actual bike now. Sucks that winter finally decided to show up. I ve got 6 weeks off of work at the end of Feb, hopefully it warms up a little.



What model from Bikes Direct are you considering? Post a link


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## Sugart (Feb 14, 2012)

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/hay1500xi.htm

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/motobecane_700HT_xi.htm


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## bvibert (Feb 14, 2012)

Sugart said:


> http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/dawes/hay1500xi.htm
> 
> http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/motobecane_700HT_xi.htm



Between those two I'd go with the Motobecane.


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## mattm59 (Feb 14, 2012)

*awww, Brians just saying that*

'cuz he saw the way I crashed my Dawes into that sapling :flame:...well he would have seen it if he had a rear view mirror :idea:

From what I understand, BD is making all the frames on their site, they bought the Motobecane name. I read they're actually making some of the specialized frames as well. I used to weld, managed a weld shop. Using automation, as long as current and feed is steady, the weld is sweet. Definitely automatics from this place. Sad the USA has handbuilt frames while China has the automation. Quite different from a few decades back.


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## MR. evil (Feb 14, 2012)

mattm59 said:


> 'cuz he saw the way I crashed my Dawes into that sapling :flame:...well he would have seen it if he had a rear view mirror :idea:
> 
> From what I understand, BD is making all the frames on their site, they bought the Motobecane name. I read they're actually making some of the specialized frames as well. I used to weld, managed a weld shop. Using automation, as long as current and feed is steady, the weld is sweet. Definitely automatics from this place. Sad the USA has handbuilt frames while China has the automation. Quite different from a few decades back.



There is a chance that Spesh and BD frames are made in the same factory as there are pretty much 4 factories in Tawain that make 99.9% of the bike frames for all the major players. But BD does not make there own frames let alone frames for Spesh. And lots of the Taiwan made frames are hand welded.


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## Grassi21 (Feb 14, 2012)

MR. evil said:


> Dam iPhone spell check does some weird things........ (don't tell Randi about Shari)



:lol:


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## bvibert (Feb 15, 2012)

mattm59 said:


> 'cuz he saw the way I crashed my Dawes into that sapling :flame:...well he would have seen it if he had a rear view mirror :idea:



Not knocking the Dawes at all, yours seems to be holding up just fine.

Actually, looking at it more I may have to change my mind.

The forks are the same, so main differences are the drivetrain and the brakes.  The motobecane _might_ come with BB5 brakes, but could also come with Tektro, where the dawes definitely comes with a Tektro brake.  If I were building a bike with mechanical discs I'd definitely go with Avid BB7 brakes.  BB5's have a good rep, and if a bike came with them I'd probably keep them.  The fact that you could get either or on the moto makes the brakes a non-issue in my book (I didn't realize this at first).  Worst case, if you don't like whichever brakes you end up with you can spend a little more than $100 to upgrade to the best mechanical brakes on the market, the BB7s

That leaves the drivetrain.  The dawes comes with an 8 speed drivetrain, SLX RD and Alivio shifters.  The moto comes with a 9 speed, XT RD and Deore shifters.  You'll never miss not having that extra cog in the back, though the moto has a 11-32 cassette vs the dawes 11-30.  You _might_ wish you had the 32 for climbing hills, one very small advantage to the moto.  The bigger difference is the shifters.  Some people scoff at anything below Deore (Alvio is one step down), but I've had 8 speed Alivio shifters before and they worked just fine.  Deore may be a bit nicer, but you probably won't notice big differences until you get  even pricier.  Another slight advantage to the moto.  The XT RD on the moto may be a bit smoother, but there's nothing wrong with the SLX on the dawes at all.  

So, the moto has some advantages in the drivetrain, but I don't know that it's enough to warrant the extra ~$130.


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## mattm59 (Feb 15, 2012)

*knew you weren't knocking it, Brian, just jokin'*

:roll:

FWIW. I'm real happy with the shifting on my Dawes. Switched to Deore on my Trek, and it's not as good. 
One of the reasons I want to go FS eventually is due to the fact I have to stand going up hills over roots and rocks and stuff, while the FS guy I'm following seems to be able to sit. I rarely use the 30 tooth cog, because when trying to transfer my balance, I'll either wheelie or lose traction, so I'm better off in second gear trying to torque my way up a bit more. Cloudy was laughing one day as I was shooting roostertails of dirt at him while attaining and sliding over the rock and roots we were hitting. I bought a suspension seat post and tried it out a bit yesterday; hopefully it'll put off that need for FS 'til my kids out of school, a new trucks in the driveway, and a new roof is on the house. Priorities, funny how they change when you get old..er. Had an $1800 road bike back when I made $2.11 an hour....and used newspapers for a pillow


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## Sugart (Mar 5, 2012)

Pulled the trigger yesterday and ordered the 1500 haymaker in orange, 21 inch frame. Should be here thursday, which is great because its supposed to be high 60s and sunny thursday and friday here. Already planning to go out with my brother in law on Friday afternoon as long as he can steal a bike from the police station. Hopefully it stays nice out since Im out of work the next 6 weeks for family bonding.


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## bvibert (Mar 5, 2012)

Congrats on the new ride!  Let us know how she rides once you get it!


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## mattm59 (Mar 8, 2012)

*How'd it go?*

hope you had fun. I got out with an old ww paddling bud who just bought a new Specialized Carve 29'er. His second day out was last Sunday. We went 4.5 hours which is way longer than I usually do, but took more breaks than usual. Had a blast. I've tapered way off on my whitewater in favor of MTB. Keep thinking of things to upgrade, get foaming about forks for my Haymaker, but then remember I seem to have had a ball with what I got :idea:


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## Sugart (Mar 9, 2012)

Bike came today, took about 30 minutes to put together and another 30 to adjust some things, but I was taking my time. Overall I am pleased so far, hopefully I can get out and ride soon. Shot a quick pic with my iphone.


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## mattm59 (Mar 11, 2012)

*new bikes*

sure is shiny :smash:

Good color for the woods :uzi:


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## Nick (Mar 11, 2012)

Sharp looking!


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## o3jeff (Mar 11, 2012)

Sugart said:


> Bike came today, took about 30 minutes to put together and another 30 to adjust some things, but I was taking my time. Overall I am pleased so far, hopefully I can get out and ride soon. Shot a quick pic with my iphone.



Nice color. Those canadian leafs next to the name, is it actually made in Canada?


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## HD333 (Mar 28, 2012)

Sugart said:


> Pulled the trigger yesterday and ordered the 1500 haymaker in orange, 21 inch frame. Should be here thursday, which is great because its supposed to be high 60s and sunny thursday and friday here. Already planning to go out with my brother in law on Friday afternoon as long as he can steal a bike from the police station. Hopefully it stays nice out since Im out of work the next 6 weeks for family bonding.


Is the police station the best place to steal a bike? 
Congrats on the rig ride it with pride.


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## Sugart (Mar 29, 2012)

I was waiting for someone to catch that. He is a police officer, and actually is the departments bike instructor.


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## bvibert (May 1, 2012)

So, how's the new bike been working out for you?  Have you been able to get some miles on it?


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## Sugart (May 4, 2012)

Ive been out a few times by myself, but to be honest not as much as Id like. Work and 3 kids will do that.


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