# Vechicles



## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 15, 2005)

what vechicles do you/family own.  What do you take to the mountains, drive around town, any modifications (tires/dvd/nav etc) just curious...

AUDI A4 AVANT QUATTRO
SPORT PKG 5 SPD
COLD WEATHER PKG
XEONS
CONTI WINTER TIRES
THULE ROOF RACK (SKIS/BIKES/SURFBOARDS)
IPOD INTEGRATION
ALL WEATHER FLOOR MATS
2 CAR SEATS

NISSAN ARMADA
ALL WEATHER FLOOR MATS
PORTABLE DVD 
THULE MOUNTINEER CARGO BOX
THULE 4 BIKE HITCH MOUNT CARRIER
IPOD INTEGRATION
2 CAR SEATS


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## RossiSkier (Dec 15, 2005)

My Saturn sedan can make it through any mountain pass.  It is the most reliable mountain car I have ever had.  Viva la Saturn.


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## Marc (Dec 15, 2005)

2001.5 Audi S4
6 speed
Cold weather package
Winter tires: Dunlop Wintersport M3's
Tinted windows from previous owner
No modifications, still under CPO warranty
I will however soon be buying a BlitzSafe converter for the CD changer plug in the trunk so I can integrate my MP3 player.


I found last Friday it will go through about one foot of snow for an indefinite period, though it hurst the gas mileage.


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## riverc0il (Dec 15, 2005)

RossiSkier said:
			
		

> My Saturn sedan can make it through any mountain pass.  It is the most reliable mountain car I have ever had.  Viva la Saturn.


 :beer: 

saturn coupe here.  had a saturn sedan previously.  has gotten me i needed to go for years, snow or not.  viva la saturn indeed.


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## SkiDog (Dec 15, 2005)

Used to drive a 2001 A4 1.8t Quattro...nice ride...

Now im in a subaru WRX...I dont do the snow tire thing...seems pointless with all seasons....

M


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## Marc (Dec 15, 2005)

SkiDog said:
			
		

> Used to drive a 2001 A4 1.8t Quattro...nice ride...
> 
> Now im in a subaru WRX...I dont do the snow tire thing...seems pointless with all seasons....
> 
> M



If it is affordable, and I realize it isn't for some... winter tires for the winter and high perf. summer tires for the summer make an AWD perf. car like yours and mine 10X more fun to drive in both seasons.

That's just me though.


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2005)

My Subaru Forester...
Holds my drumset, skis and boards and other gear...  Gets good gas mileage... Is comfortable...  Has a hatchback..

Could i get around without AWD....?? Sure... But it's nice to have...


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## SkiDog (Dec 15, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> SkiDog said:
> 
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> 
> ...



Yeah I hear the logic for sure and have contemplated it as my WRX would be like a darned snow mobile if I put blizzak snows on it, but unless I wanna drop a few hundred on extra rims..I dont like wasting the time and money on switches..ya know..? Its a lease too so I dont wanna be stuck selling rims if the new car wont take em...I dont get to drive quite as fast in snow as I would with snow tires, but its still pretty quick and fin to drive...
You happy with the S4? I liked my Audi but man it was in the shop 10times more than the subbie...the subbie only gets oil changes and its up to about 27000 now...nothing has needed replacing yet..knock wood...

M


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## Paul (Dec 15, 2005)

It may not be an Audi, or Armada, or Excursion or whatever the hell the latest Yuppie vehicle of choice may be, but it gets awesome mileage, and can cross any terrain...


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2005)

Paul said:
			
		

> It may not be an Audi, or Armada, or Excursion or whatever the hell the latest Yuppie vehicle of choice may be, but it gets awesome mileage, and can cross any terrain...



That reminds me of the old joke..



What goes "clip clop clip clop" *BAM BAM BAM*


An Amish drive by shooting...


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## Paul (Dec 15, 2005)

dmc said:
			
		

> That reminds me of the old joke..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Classic  :beer: 


And you should see it when we hook-up the tow-rope!


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 15, 2005)

I had leases in the past, I just got some snow tires to fit the existing rims..have the snows taken off early april and put back on around TGiving....snow tires have different tread pattern and are made of more plyable materials to grip when it gets cold, A/S tires get more rigid in the cold and lose traction.....your car with Blizzaks will be insane...worth the money, not only for increased traction, but you can stop quicker!!


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## WWF-VT (Dec 15, 2005)

2001 Audi A6 Avant
Cold Weather Package
Winter Floor Mats
Thule Ski Rack


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## skibum1321 (Dec 16, 2005)

2004 Mazda3
Michelin X-Ice snow tires
Thule Bike Rack, but no ski rack - I prefer to toss them in back and get better gas mileage


For what it's worth, I think snow tires make a huge difference. For people that say they are too expensive, you have to realize that you won't be putting any wear on your regular tires for 5 months of the year so those will last longer too.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 16, 2005)

really cant put a price on saftey or the ablility to get to the mountain on a pow day when the A/S's just cant cut it!!


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## Catul (Dec 16, 2005)

2005 BMW 545i with SMG (Sequential Manual Gearshift)
Sport Suspension, cold weather package, NAV, Premium Sound, iPod auxiliary input
OEM Ski rack and Dunlop WinterSport M3's on right now

I've ALWAYS put snow tires on my cars (from 2000 Audi A6, E36 M3/4, E38 740iL), it's a bit of a hassle but definitely worth it especially with these cars (which all have ultra performance summer rubber on them anyway  :wink: )

Wife's minivan is a 2005 Toyota Sienna XLE with AWD, all-weather runflats that actually does frikkin better than my 545i with snow tires!  Hard to compete against AWD for get-up-and-go (plus more clearance on her car), my stopping power may be slightly better though.


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## Marc (Dec 16, 2005)

Catul said:
			
		

> 2005 BMW 545i with SMG (Sequential Manual Gearshift)
> Sport Suspension, cold weather, etc.
> OEM Ski rack and Dunlop WinterSport M3's on right now
> 
> ...



Your handling in the snow still should be better as well.

I love the SUV and truck owners that think just somehow ground clearance means they'll handle better in the snow than my AWD Audi w/ snow tires.  No, you still drive a top heavy vehicle with a solid rear axle, that hurts handling especially in slippery and snowy conditions.  All it does is give the ability to go through like three feet.  If I can't get through it in my Audi, I shouldn;t be going through it in the first place, I've realized.


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## Greg (Dec 16, 2005)

2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport. It handles very well in the snow. It's a little light though so the back end will kick out even in 4WD at times. Slow and steady is the name of the game...


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## salida (Dec 16, 2005)

Boy some fancy cars here... You guys certainly could put out an AZ rally team.

Myself an 98 Jeep Cherokee, Jeeps rock!


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## teachski (Dec 16, 2005)

Subaru...need I say more!


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## Brettski (Dec 16, 2005)

Town & Country with my Thule Alpine (anyone know that model?) with new all seasons...never had a problem.

BUT!  In the old days my Jetta with manual tranny was very nice....3rd gear...4th gear...3rd gear...4th gear

I don't think I used the brake until I got to the Mountain


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## snowmaker4191 (Dec 16, 2005)

2004 ford f150(snow is nothing for this beast)
2005 ford escape hybird (alright in the snow)
2004 ford focus
2005 VW bug convertible!


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## ALLSKIING (Dec 16, 2005)

2003 Land Rover Discovery. Great SUV in the snow or on the beach or what ever you need to get through. The down side is that it gets about 12mpg...Premium :blink:


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## bvibert (Dec 16, 2005)

ALLSKIING said:
			
		

> The down side is that it gets about 12mpg...Premium :blink:



Ouch, makes me feel better about my truck...


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## Bumpsis (Dec 16, 2005)

Looks like quite a few sedan drivers here with a smattering of Jeep drives here, yet the true picture of what skiers drive is quite disheartening.

Take a look at any ski area parking lot and you'll see it chock full of effing SUVS. 

Man, for people who supposedly love snow and nature, they will actively chose to drive a vehicle that puts out 2- 3 times the pollutants of an average sedan. 
Yes, Virginia, global warming is real and it is or will have adverse effect on yearly snow cover.

I can point out many reasons why people should not drive these automotive abominations, but to a skier/boarder driving one couldn't be a greater conflict of interests. :angry: 

As to my own wheels: VW Passat with winter tires.

I know I'll get flamed for this one, but I really feel that SUV drivers have a major case of emperor's new clothes.
There are some narrow  market nitches where a choice of having driving an SUV makes perfect sense, however majority of people could easily do with a vehicle that safer (for them and others) and easier on the environment than an SUV.


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## NYDrew (Dec 17, 2005)

88 BMW 325e
Rear Wheel Drive
Pirelli All Weather Tires (factory seconds)
All around peice of crap
Dont care when people hit it in parking lot or skid into guard rails
ABS doesnt work

BACK UP CAR
1986 Chevy Camaro
Real Wheel Drive....duh
500+HP
I hate driving this on any day other then sunday in the summer, but you'd be surprised what a ton of horses and some knobby rear tires can do in the snow...lets not forget, its one of the few cars legally allowed to use snow chains. (some weird law in ny)Luckily hasnt seen a ski trip in almost 3 years.

I drove my dads subaru today on a sheet of ice..no problem, I cant wait for the lease to expire so that I can buy it out.


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## hammer (Dec 17, 2005)

2001 Toyota Highlander V6 AWD, currently has 88k miles, gets around 20 MPG
1998 Subaru Legacy Outback, currently has 110k miles, gets around 23 MPG

Regular tires (too lazy to bother with snow tires).

They both do fine in the snow, but the Subaru handles better IMO...the AWD seems to do a better job of shifting power to the correct wheel(s).

Ski box will be on the Subaru this season.


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## bill9009 (Dec 17, 2005)

04 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, gas guzzlin, paycheck eating, s.o.b., but i like it, and there isnt much that can stop it, except if i run out of money

too bad there arent more trails then i could just ride the snowmobile to the mtn!! except i dont know which gets worse gas mileage


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## roark (Dec 18, 2005)

2005 Mitsubishi Outlander AWD. Car-based "SUV". Really more of a crossover, best of both worlds. Just the stock all seasons so I take it easy in bad conditions. Although they did just fine in over a foot of snow in my driveway last week! Reasonable fuel economy (~25 mpg), plenty of space. When the roads are clear and there's no chance of ice the 2002 Hyundai Accent gets the nod (~38 mpg). But it doesn't have the proper rubber right now.


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## Terry (Dec 19, 2005)

2002 honda accord se here. With stock all season tires it goes pretty decent in the snow. Friday it drove right into our driveway before I plowed it. It was pushing snow with the front bumper so even with snow tires I don't think that you could go through much deeper snow anyways. 10 inches of snow so that was pretty good.It has a little doorway in the back seat to the trunk so we can put the skis right in the trunk! No rack or box or anything. Works great! 
 :beer:


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## skibum1321 (Dec 19, 2005)

Bumpsis said:
			
		

> Looks like quite a few sedan drivers here with a smattering of Jeep drives here, yet the true picture of what skiers drive is quite disheartening.
> 
> Take a look at any ski area parking lot and you'll see it chock full of effing SUVS.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree with you more. I hate SUVs.


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## smitty77 (Dec 19, 2005)

2002 Chrysler PT Cruiser
5 speed, stock everything, though going to spend some $$ for snows in a week or so.
Gets about 27 mpg average, and I don't really baby it.

2005 Ford F150 2wd, 4.6L V-8
Mostly a bare bones company truck.
Gets about 18mpg.
Got it new in mid-april.  Odo now reads 37000.  
Handles like a plastic toboggan in the snow.  Put 450 lbs of sand just infront of the rear axle, so it's a tad better now.

If I can convince the wife to get three more huskies, I'll have 16-paw-drive.  Don't know what that would cost me per mile.  :roll:


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## GadgetRick (Dec 19, 2005)

> Man, for people who supposedly love snow and nature, they will actively chose to drive a vehicle that puts out 2- 3 times the pollutants of an average sedan.
> Yes, Virginia, global warming is real and it is or will have adverse effect on yearly snow cover.
> 
> I can point out many reasons why people should not drive these automotive abominations, but to a skier/boarder driving one couldn't be a greater conflict of interests.


Puleeze. Spare us the sermon. No matter what you drive it hurts the environment. Hurts it to make the vehicle and hurts it to burn the gas in it. If you want to REALLY save the environment, walk.

Some of us drive SUVs/trucks/whatever you wanna call them for a reason. I drive a 2004 Land Rover Discovery (btw, a Disco is NOT an SUV, it's a truck built on a truck chasis). I actually take it offroad (like it's made to do) when there's no snow on the ground. I can also carry gear for myself and the other 4 passengers I can carry with ease. Could I cram everything into a car? Sure, but why should I?

My other car is a 2001 Saab 9-5 SE with Nokian WRs on it. The thing goes as well in the snow as many SUVs I've seen.


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## awf170 (Dec 19, 2005)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> > Man, for people who supposedly love snow and nature, they will actively chose to drive a vehicle that puts out 2- 3 times the pollutants of an average sedan.
> > Yes, Virginia, global warming is real and it is or will have adverse effect on yearly snow cover.
> >
> > I can point out many reasons why people should not drive these automotive abominations, but to a skier/boarder driving one couldn't be a greater conflict of interests.
> ...



Wow :roll: thats one of the stupidest thing I ever read...
I know walking is the best thing to do but not everything is within walking distance.  And if everyone drove a car with 25+mpg that would help out the enviorment.  



> (btw, a Disco is NOT an SUV, it's a truck built on a truck chasis)



Does that make you feel cool?


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## skijay (Dec 19, 2005)

Well spoken, GadgetRick!!!


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## Marc (Dec 19, 2005)

*Teetering dangerously on the edge of a political discussion*

Before attacking people for hypocrisy let us just remember that no one knows anyone else's specific situation... and their priorities.  Expressing a difference of opinion can be done with tact without being be too judgemental...


The thing I love about this forum is 99% of the time 99% of the people are laid back and cool, just like the people I ski with.  Let's attempt to keep it that way shall we?


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## GadgetRick (Dec 20, 2005)

> Before attacking people for hypocrisy let us just remember that no one knows anyone else's specific situation... and their priorities. Expressing a difference of opinion can be done with tact without being be too judgemental...


You are correct. Sorry I spouted off, I just get tired of hearing people bash what others do without knowing what they're talking about.

If people are so concerned about the environment they should pressure the government to allow diesels to be sold more widely here. They've been sold in Europe for years. They get much better mileage and they actually create less harmful emissions these days. If I could have gotten one I would have but the US won't allow them very easilly so the manufacturers have all but given up on bringing them in. In fact, here in NJ, they are talking about not allowing ANY diesels here (for passenger car use).

Also, just because someone can comfortably drive a VW Golf or other small car doesn't mean everyone can. I'm a big guy and spend a lot of time in my vehicles. I'm not gonna cram myself into a small car.

So think before you bash people driving trucks. You don't know why they're doing it.


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## hammer (Dec 20, 2005)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> If people are so concerned about the environment they should pressure the government to allow diesels to be sold more widely here. They've been sold in Europe for years. They get much better mileage and they actually create less harmful emissions these days. If I could have gotten one I would have but the US won't allow them very easilly so the manufacturers have all but given up on bringing them in. In fact, here in NJ, they are talking about not allowing ANY diesels here (for passenger car use).


I believe that the diesel fuel is cleaner over in Europe, and that's why they can get away with having diesel cars over there.  I'm not sure if we're going to change diesel fuel standards here in the US anytime soon...

I just saw an article on the Toyota Highlander hybrid, and it only gets a few MPG over the regular gas version...not worth the $3000 price increase IMO.

While I think that hybrids will become more commonplace, I don't think they will deliver the big mileage improvements that everyone is expecting.  Why?  Basically, it's because we'll still want to have big cars and SUVs here in the US.

The main thing that saves on gas mileage is vehicle size.  Most of the cars I have seen in Germany are quite small by American standards, and given the way that they build parking garages over there, it's a good thing.


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## skibum1321 (Dec 20, 2005)

I'm not saying you have no reason to have an SUV, but height is not a reason. There are plenty of cars out there that a tall person can be comfortable in. I'm 6'2" and drive a Mazda3 and have plenty of room. And there are plenty of cars way bigger than mine.
I would go broke driving an SUV. $25 a tank is more than enough for me. You can all have fun paying $50 a tank.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 20, 2005)

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.  No matter what you drive, you bought it for a reason...be it kids, cargo, mpg, price, status, ego etc.....I am sure we can all do a better job to protect the environment whether you drive and SUV or not..for example, I am sure the SUV bashing people arent using solar power, wind power, manure power etc...before you throw stones, look at your own life, we can ALL do better..we choose our vechicles like we choose our skis, they fit a need...we dont critize each other if one guy is skiing a GS ski and another a fatty powder ski..we all have our reasons for buying what we buy...leave it at that..and pray for snow...!!  Yes, i have a SUV and a A4 Audi wagon..we've had an Audi AllRoad wagon with a box up top but still could not fit everything that we needed to haul (me, wife, 2 kids, gear)...I have a near death experience in a minivan, so an SUV for long trips was a no brainer for me...for around town we drive the AUDI and most days i ride my road bike to work...(30 mi r/t)  PRAY FOR SNOW


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## Vortex (Dec 20, 2005)

I have a Montero Sport. 4 door ski racks. Towing package.  I like it get about 20 mgh.

I edited this.  My bad.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 20, 2005)

lets please get this thread back to what you drive, not your likes and dislikes...facts only please


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## skibum1321 (Dec 20, 2005)

SKIQUATTRO said:
			
		

> Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.  No matter what you drive, you bought it for a reason...be it kids, cargo, mpg, price, status, ego etc.....I am sure we can all do a better job to protect the environment whether you drive and SUV or not..for example, I am sure the SUV bashing people arent using solar power, wind power, manure power etc...before you throw stones, look at your own life, we can ALL do better..we choose our vechicles like we choose our skis, they fit a need...we dont critize each other if one guy is skiing a GS ski and another a fatty powder ski..we all have our reasons for buying what we buy...leave it at that..and pray for snow...!!  Yes, i have a SUV and a A4 Audi wagon..we've had an Audi AllRoad wagon with a box up top but still could not fit everything that we needed to haul (me, wife, 2 kids, gear)...I have a near death experience in a minivan, so an SUV for long trips was a no brainer for me...for around town we drive the AUDI and most days i ride my road bike to work...(30 mi r/t)  PRAY FOR SNOW


I would love to use wind power, but if I go any further with that I'd be getting on my political soapbox.


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## GadgetRick (Dec 20, 2005)

> I believe that the diesel fuel is cleaner over in Europe, and that's why they can get away with having diesel cars over there. I'm not sure if we're going to change diesel fuel standards here in the US anytime soon...


That is a small part of the problem. The engines are much cleaner as well. And why aren't we gonna change the disel fuel standards? Well, because the oil companies won't let the government. If we did, as we allowed more disels they wouldn't make as much money as they have been.

The hybrid thing is not the answer either. Check the mileage on most of these cars. Not much better than a non-hybrid at the end of the day. I think, eventually, you'll see hydrogen cars being the answer if the government ever really allows it.



> 'm not saying you have no reason to have an SUV, but height is not a reason. There are plenty of cars out there that a tall person can be comfortable in. I'm 6'2" and drive a Mazda3 and have plenty of room.


Not just a height issue. I've always lifted a lot of weights and I've got a large upper body. Not very comfortable in MOST cars. Besides, I have a 3 year old boy and another on the way. Try squeezing kids into a smaller car with all of their stuff. It can be done but I'm not gonna do it.



> Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. No matter what you drive, you bought it for a reason...be it kids, cargo, mpg, price, status, ego etc.....I am sure we can all do a better job to protect the environment whether you drive and SUV or not..for example, I am sure the SUV bashing people arent using solar power, wind power, manure power etc...before you throw stones, look at your own life, we can ALL do better..


Amen to that brother...


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## cdc28p (Dec 21, 2005)

My cheapo 2004 Toyota RAV4 AWD is awesome on snow, and better yet, can fit all tiny parallel parking slots in the urban jungle of Boston. Music-wise, it's equipped with my vocal cord. Navigation-wise, I usually have my fiancee reading a map on the passenger seat. I've used it to carry my road bike in the summer and skis in the winter and countless of other big, crazy, too-large-for -a-sedan-trunk stuff around.

I can't wait for the RAV4 to have a hybrid engine. That'll be cool. I don't think I can go back to a sedan again after being spoiled by the utility of this little gem. I guess I could get a station wagon, but wagons are... um, ugly.


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## Marc (Dec 21, 2005)

cdc28p said:
			
		

> I can't wait for the RAV4 to have a hybrid engine. That'll be cool. I don't think I can go back to a sedan again after being spoiled by the utility of this little gem. I guess I could get a station wagon, *but wagons are... um, ugly.  *





























Right, they're hideous... stay away from those wagons.  Why would you want a sports sedan handling vehicle with the utility of an SUV and AWD to boot?  That's a dumb idea, ain't it...  :dunce: 

I suppose this does it for some people, but just not me:


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## Bumpsis (Dec 21, 2005)

cdc28p said:
			
		

> I don't think I can go back to a sedan again after being spoiled by the utility of this little gem. I guess I could get a station wagon, but wagons are... um, ugly.




I appreciate this exchange and find it very inetersting. Looks to me like it all boils down to values that we hold dear and whether we can live up them.

You can always come up with a reason (excuse) to justify what you drive.
"I'm too big... sedan's too small... station wagon too ugly...mini-van too effeminite..."

It's all a matter of priorities and perception.
My station wagon (Passat wagon) actually has more cargo space than many SUVs,including the RAV4.

What's wrong with mini-vans? When it comes to cargo capacity, they are the kings and with lower ground celarance, they are significantly safer than any SUV, where, let's face it, physical laws are not in your favor.

With proper rubber (snow tires), they can can cope with most  of the adverse driving conditions that majority of the on-road drivers will ever encounter.
If you really insist on 4wd, there are mini-vans that have that too.

As to "ugly", that's REALLY a matter of perspective.

C'mmon, somebody really would have to put some major wool over my eyes to convince me that a big square box on wheels, like majority of SUVs, is a vision of beauty. Most of these things look like small delivery vans. Would you feel sporty driving a bread truck?

The fact that people do find such a big box on wheels desirable, sporty or even sexy is testament to the untold millions of $$$$ that the big 3 spent on marketing, pushing the SUV.

It takes a lot of propaganda to convince so many people that a dressed up truck will make you feel strong, safe, desirable, sporty and will even get you laid - this is the essence of SUV commericials that I've seen over the years. Oh, yeah, it will blast through an avalanche too.

At the same time, a mini van, which in essence is not (at least visually)that different from an SUV, has been painted with perception of being a soft, over the hill, unmanly. A "real man" or even a "sporty", active woman wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those.
And yeah, and  staion wagons are "ugly".  :blink: 

The funny thing is that sooo many people really believe this crap and rather than being true to their values, buy into into the auto industry propaganda.

Finally, some of you objected that I pointed out the obvious conflict of values:  cherishing the nature,preserving the outdoors and yet choosing to drive the most poluting personal vehicle you can find. Maybe you did not apprecite the fact that this smacks of being a hipocrite. 
Well, too bad, it does. 

I'm simply making an observation which you can verify for yourself next time you're at your favorite ski area.

I'm not being "holier than thou" while being a polluter myself. Sure, by just being alive here in the US we polute. So attepmts at abosolutism are just ridiculous. Some of you said, look at yourself first (not using solar, wind or manure) before you cast judgements. I have,I strive to do what I can but I also feel it's my resposibilty to raise awarness where there doesn't seem to be one.

Well, protecting the environment is NOT an all or nothing affair. It's a progressive/cummulative process and every bit helps. As consumers, we have choices. I'm just really appaled  at how many of us chose to make a really bad one when it comes to our vehicles.

If this sounds "preachy", well too bad. I think that pointing out something that we clearly see (or should see) is wrong, is a good thing. 

Imagine if you will that you take a hike up to Lonsome Lake and find a bunch of people tossing empty cans and beer bottles inot the water. Then they play soccer with the styrofoam cooler that held the beer, until the pieces litter the shoreline. If you saw that would you just shrug it off and walk by or would you intervene?

I really don't seriously expect to change anyone's mind here about their SUV, but only to provoke a spark of an honest though that just may pass your mind.
Anyone who's really inetersted in this issue may find
a book by Keith Bradsher. "High and Mighty".
It's about the false promise of safety that the auto industry has been pounding on when selling these things.


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## skibum1321 (Dec 21, 2005)

cdc28p said:
			
		

> I've used it to carry my road bike in the summer and skis in the winter and countless of other big, crazy, too-large-for -a-sedan-trunk stuff around.


Actually, with my seat folded down my bike fits in my car. And with just the 40% side folded down I can fit as much ski stuff as I would need.


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## ALLSKIING (Dec 21, 2005)

Bumpsis said:
			
		

> cdc28p said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :roll:


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## GadgetRick (Dec 21, 2005)

> You can always come up with a reason (excuse) to justify what you drive.


I neither feel the need to nor do I care about justifying what I drive to anyone. I explained why I have chosen to drive what I drive. I don't feel you or anyone else should feel the need to justify what you drive either. I will also not pass judgement on you (or anyone else) based on what you drive either.



> What's wrong with mini-vans?


They're ugly and I personally don't like them. Doesn't make them bad, I just don't care for them. Do we need to justify why we like or don't like things?



> they are significantly safer than any SUV


That is debatable. Define, "safer." Want to try driving a mini van ANY mini van into my 5,000 pound Disco? You talk of physics, well, the last time I checked, 5,000 pounds will win out over the much lighter, "safer," mini van. I'll take my chances in the Disco or my Saab over a mini van any day. Oh, btw, I believe the Saab also weighs more than the average mini van. I haven't checked it to be sure but the 9-5 is a relatively heavy car. Why? Safety is part of that reason...



> As to "ugly", that's REALLY a matter of perspective.


Exaclty and, if I'm gonna spend upwards of $30k on a vehicle, I want to like the way it looks amoung other things.



> The fact that people do find such a big box on wheels desirable, sporty or even sexy is testament to the untold millions of $$$$ that the big 3 spent on marketing, pushing the SUV.


So now people like/drive SUVs because the media told them/us to? Come on. It's called marketing. Building a brand. They market a product based on the demographics of where they feel the product will do well. Do you think they could make us all want to run out and drive a mini van if they told us they were cool?



> The funny thing is that sooo many people really believe this crap and rather than being true to their values, buy into into the auto industry propaganda.


Maybe it's just that people like different things than you do. You find things to look good while others may hate what you like. We're not all supposed to like the same things.



> Finally, some of you objected that I pointed out the obvious conflict of values: cherishing the nature,preserving the outdoors and yet choosing to drive the most poluting personal vehicle you can find. Maybe you did not apprecite the fact that this smacks of being a hipocrite.
> Well, too bad, it does.


So, since when does being an avid snow sports lover make us all tree-loving hippies (for lack of a better term)??? If you care so much about the environment then great. Have at it. You want to drive a certain kind of car you perceive as being kind to the environment? Go do it. But don't pass judgment on others you know nothing about. That is just plain ignorant.



> If this sounds "preachy", well too bad. I think that pointing out something that we clearly see (or should see) is wrong, is a good thing.


And what, exactly, is wrong about what we're doing? Driving a vehicle that doesn't get as good of gas milage as YOURS? Again, why not drive something which gets better mileage than you drive? Forget about all of the other environmental issues which have been brought up. Why not be banging on the auto makers' doors to be first in line to test a hydrogen car? Why AREN'T you driving a hybrid? Why aren't you driving a diesel? Honestly, I don't care what you drive or why you drive it. You know why? I'm not trying to judge YOUR life. How about giving the rest of us the same courtesy?



> Imagine if you will that you take a hike up to Lonsome Lake and find a bunch of people tossing empty cans and beer bottles inot the water. Then they play soccer with the styrofoam cooler that held the beer, until the pieces litter the shoreline. If you saw that would you just shrug it off and walk by or would you intervene?


It sort of depends on the situation doesn't it?



> I really don't seriously expect to change anyone's mind here about their SUV, but only to provoke a spark of an honest though that just may pass your mind.


Then why chime in the way you have? I don't want to convince anyone else they should be driving what I'm driving. Why should you try to convince us? Call it being inconsiderate to the environment if you want but, trust me, the environment has WAY bigger problems than the number of SUVs on the roads.

Please, come off your high horse.


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## Greg (Dec 21, 2005)

GadgetRick said:
			
		

> > You can always come up with a reason (excuse) to justify what you drive.
> 
> 
> I neither feel the need to nor do I care about justifying what I drive to anyone.


*Very *well said. Last time I checked this was a free country and if I want to make the car payments, pay for the insurance, and shell out the coin to fill the tanks, it's my prerogative how many SUVs I choose to own. Free market, remember?



			
				GadgetRick said:
			
		

> > Finally, some of you objected that I pointed out the obvious conflict of values: cherishing the nature,preserving the outdoors and yet choosing to drive the most poluting personal vehicle you can find. Maybe you did not apprecite the fact that this smacks of being a hipocrite.
> > Well, too bad, it does.
> 
> 
> So, since when does being an avid snow sports lover make us all tree-loving hippies (for lack of a better term)??? If you care so much about the environment then great. Have at it. You want to drive a certain kind of car you perceive as being kind to the environment? Go do it. But don't pass judgment on others you know nothing about. That is just plain ignorant.


And I hate to say it, but operating a ski area is probably not the most environmentally friendly thing one could do...


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## SkiRacrNut (Dec 21, 2005)

Just purchased, awaiting order from factory:
2006 WRX Sportwagon
Limited Package
Roof-Ski rack
Trailer Hitch
Trailer hitch-bike rack
Bumper-cover protector

Past/Current/2ndary vehicle:
1995 Pontiac GrandAM
Nothing Special
Has never left me stuck or hangin, even in deep snow


...now all I gotta do is hope the WRX is good in the snow...and figure out how to drive a stick shift


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## dmc (Dec 21, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> GadgetRick said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




BUUUUUUURN!!!!!


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## Greg (Dec 21, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> GadgetRick said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And remember that when you purchase a lift ticket this weekend, you are directly supporting an industry that has no problem with cutting down large swaths of trees on some of the Northeast's most pristine mountain areas as well as expending large amounts of energy (half of this country's electricity is generated by burning coal) to turn lifts and run snowmaking systems. So...who's the hypocrite? Meanwhile you're going to lecture those of us that drive vehicles that get 18 MPG vs. yours that gets 25? Let's be reasonable...


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## hammer (Dec 21, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> And remember that when you purchase a lift ticket this weekend, you are directly supporting an industry that has no problem with cutting down large swaths of trees on some of the Northeast's most pristine mountain areas as well as expending large amounts of energy (half of this country's electricity is generated by burning coal) to turn lifts and run snowmaking systems. So...who's the hypocrite? Meanwhile you're going to lecture those of us that drive vehicles that get 18 MPG vs. yours that gets 25? Let's be reasonable...


You have a point, but now I feel guilty about going skiing... 

...NOT!

I have nothing of substance to add here...maybe we should throw in a helmet debate?  :wink:


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## Vortex (Dec 22, 2005)

Hammer very funny. :beer:


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## ctenidae (Dec 22, 2005)

hammer said:
			
		

> I have nothing of substance to add here...maybe we should throw in a helmet debate?  :wink:



Might as well take care of everything here while we're at it- Snowboarders suck, too.

There's nothing worse than a non-helmet wearing snowboarder in an SUV. Unless they're a <insert political affiliation>, then they're worse. or one of those <insert ethnic/religious/other demographic descriptor>. Those are the absolute worst.

There's too much  :argue: leading to a lot of  :angry: which makes the baby Jesus   . We really should all  :beer:  more, which makes us all    and much more  8) .


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## Vortex (Dec 22, 2005)

The best I have heard is Nuke Gay Whales for Jesus.  I have not seen it, but it is a bumper sticker.  Covers a few bases.


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## ctenidae (Dec 22, 2005)

That's pretty good- guranteed to offend 80% of any crowd.

My personal favorite is still "Sorry about your daughter"


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