# The 2011 Red Sox Thread



## thetrailboss (Aug 10, 2011)

I know that it is August, but I've got to say that they are playing well as a team.  Not to jinx it, but they could go all the way this season.  The one thing I would improve on is their pitching, which seems to be struggling.  Most games they get behind pretty quickly but then get warmed up and eventually surge ahead.  

We'll see what happens......


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## TheBEast (Aug 10, 2011)

Yes pitching is an issue.  Good crop of up and comers in the field tho and Salty is coming into his own......Philly's starting pitching is killer....I'll put money on the Sox and Philly in the WS.  Also nice to see the sox coming from behind and winning games late (although not tonight). They've sucked at wins like that in the last few years.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 11, 2011)

Liking what I'm seeing from Bedard so far.  I think he is the key to playoff success now that Bulcholz is done.  Lackey doesn't do it for me as a #3 starter in the playoffs even though he performed well in big games for the Angels for many years.


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## Geoff (Aug 11, 2011)

I remember Buckey F'ing Dent and other famous Red Sox September swoons.   I'm not talking trash until late-September.   The LAA and Texas could both get hot, the Sox could go flat and have a few key injuries, and Boston is out of the playoffs.    The starting pitching is suspect.   A rookie in right field is a big question mark.   Scutaro has less range than Jeter and Lowrie is made of glass.   Crawford swings at balls in the dirt and I think will prove to be a Theo Epstein mistake.   The Sox were huge fun to watch when they were hot and scoring double digits every game but they also get shut down by nobodys.

I want to see a Sox-Yankees ALCS.   The best rivalry in US professional sports.    I care less about the World Series now that Boston has won a couple.


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## drjeff (Aug 11, 2011)

Geoff said:


> I remember Buckey F'ing Dent and other famous Red Sox September swoons.   I'm not talking trash until late-September.   The LAA and Texas could both get hot, the Sox could go flat and have a few key injuries, and Boston is out of the playoffs.    The starting pitching is suspect.   A rookie in right field is a big question mark.   Scutaro has less range than Jeter and Lowrie is made of glass.   Crawford swings at balls in the dirt and I think will prove to be a Theo Epstein mistake.   The Sox were huge fun to watch when they were hot and scoring double digits every game but they also get shut down by nobodys.
> 
> I want to see a Sox-Yankees ALCS.   The best rivalry in US professional sports.    I care less about the World Series now that Boston has won a couple.



Agree!!

And I'm also glad that the NFL preseason starts tonight, if for no other reason than it might take maybe 1 or 2% of the extra attention off the Redsox right now and hopefully let them continue playing the good ball that they have been as of late!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2011)

Seems as if they are relying on their hitting to get them out of bad pitching.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 11, 2011)

Geoff said:


> I remember Buckey F'ing Dent and other famous Red Sox September swoons.   I'm not talking trash until late-September.   The LAA and Texas could both get hot, the Sox could go flat and have a few key injuries, and Boston is out of the playoffs.    The starting pitching is suspect.   A rookie in right field is a big question mark.   Scutaro has less range than Jeter and Lowrie is made of glass.   Crawford swings at balls in the dirt and I think will prove to be a Theo Epstein mistake.   The Sox were huge fun to watch when they were hot and scoring double digits every game but they also get shut down by nobodys.
> 
> I want to see a Sox-Yankees ALCS.   The best rivalry in US professional sports.    I care less about the World Series now that Boston has won a couple.



I've seen some pretty epic meltdowns in September in my life as well.  Not quite the old fart you are, but I've seen plenty of them.

Your concerns are all quite valid.  Though, I think it would have to be 2-3 major key injuries for the Sox to miss the playoffs this year.  Angels are 7 games back in the Wildcard.  This Red Sox team is still very deep despite it's weaknesses.   I think they're a lock for the playoffs.


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## JimG. (Aug 11, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I've seen some pretty epic meltdowns in September in my life as well.  Not quite the old fart you are, but I've seen plenty of them.
> 
> Your concerns are all quite valid.  Though, I think it would have to be 2-3 major key injuries for the Sox to miss the playoffs this year.  Angels are 7 games back in the Wildcard.  This Red Sox team is still very deep despite it's weaknesses.   I think they're a lock for the playoffs.



You, Geoff and others are clearly tried and true Bosox fans.

And you're smart for not counting any chickens before they hatch.

Everyone wrote themselves a Phillies/Yankees World Series ticket last year and neither made it that far.

Pitching is what counts in the postseason. That's the reason San Fran won it all last season, with little offense I might add. 

If I were forced to pick a WS winner now, it would be the Phillies...they have the best pitching staff by far. Nobody else is even close.


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## snowmonster (Aug 11, 2011)

Talking about the Red Sox being a lock for the post-season is very premature. I remember watching Game 4 of the 2004 WS and thinking in the ninth inning what terrible series of events can unfold to make us lose this game and the next three games. If there was a team that could comeback from a dramatic ALCS, get to the brink of winning then squander it all away, it was the Red Sox of my youth.

Anyway, this edition of the Sox needs a reliable third starter. In a short series, you need three good arms. For some weird reason, I have faith in John Lackey. If he can focus for three months, then we have found the third guy. Otherwise, we have to ride the horse that got us here all these years, Tim Wakefield. Bedard can definitely insert himself into that slot. It's just that I don't have enough of a handle on him to form an opinion just yet. We hope for the best.

The Phillies' pitching rotation is sick!


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## Nick (Aug 11, 2011)

It's hard to believe they are the same team they were in the spring. That was abysmal.


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## JimG. (Sep 21, 2011)

This thread has been pretty dead lately. Fitting I guess.

Another late season Bosox swoon. Looks like they won't make the playoffs. Tonight's game was a killer.

Too bad the Yanks beat the Rays again.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 21, 2011)

What are you talking about? The Pats are playing great. Need to work on the D a bit for the long haul ...


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm actually rooting for them to lose at this point.  They're a disgrace.  Something like 2-68 when trailing after 7 innings.  ZERO heart.  That's what made the 2004 and 2007 squads so great.  Tons of heart and they were clutch when things counted most.  Not this squad.  

Theo needs to go.  In the past two off seasons he's produced the worst free agent pitcher signing in baseball history in Lackey and now what looks to be the worst position player signing in Crawford.  If I owned a team and my GM effed up to the tune of 227M dollars on just two players, he's gone.  Never mind the decade long revolving door at shortstop, JD Drew, Bobby Jenks etc.


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## snowmonster (Sep 21, 2011)

^ Eric Gagne, Dice-K...

I normally wait until the Red Sox are out until I start prepping the skis. Looks like I should start getting things in order.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 22, 2011)

They LOST last night?    They were ahead when I went to bed.  Again, I went to bed at the right time......


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## drjeff (Sep 22, 2011)

[size=+4]Go Patriots!!! [/size] [size=-4](since that seems likely to be the only pro sports team in Boston playing next week until the Celtics and Bruins start their seasons)[/size]


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## Geoff (Sep 22, 2011)

Buchholz will be back, win a crucial game this next week, and shine in the ALDS.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 22, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Buchholz will be back, win a crucial game this next week, and shine in the ALDS.


 
Odd since the Sox are saying that *Bucholz is a no go for the rest of the season and post season.*


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## Black Phantom (Sep 22, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Buchholz will be back, win a crucial game this next week, and shine in the ALDS.



What about Al Dente?


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## ZYDECORICH (Sep 24, 2011)

That clams in that chowder must be a little tougher today. In the words of Tom Petty freefalling!


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## Geoff (Sep 24, 2011)

Tampa and the LAA both lost last night.   Magic number is down to 4 with 6 games to play.


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## jlboyell (Sep 24, 2011)

glad to see other fans squirm like i do this time of year.  grew up 20 min outside of philly, and ill tell you, septembers and octobers have been tough on me since 07.  almost easier to just be out of contention...  but way less entertaining.


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## bigbog (Sep 24, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Seems as if they are relying on their hitting to get them out of bad pitching.



Yep....Has most ALWAYS been the situation TB, pretty right on the mark...and when they lose...too many of them have been swinging for the fence...stranding too many, but a team can get its hitting mojo back...but yep..pitching = can never get enough of...
$.01


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## Geoff (Sep 24, 2011)

bigbog said:


> Yep....Has most ALWAYS been the situation TB, pretty right on the mark...and when they lose...too many of them have been swinging for the fence...stranding too many, but a team can get its hitting mojo back...but yep..pitching = can never get enough of...
> $.01



With the starting rotation the Red Sox are putting out there right now, "bad pitching" understates the problem.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 29, 2011)

I went to bed at the right time.  Well that was pretty bad.  I knew that when I saw Pap come out on Tuesday night and almost lose that game that he was struggling.  I was not surprised, and disappointed, to hear that he lost last night's game.  

The Rays wanted it more.  They came from a 7-run deficit in the 8th inning to win in extra innings.  For me though the Rays are the new Yankees.  They have defeated the Sox in big games many times the last few years.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 29, 2011)

Oh yeah....the Bruins are playing tonight.  Go Bruins!


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## Black Phantom (Sep 29, 2011)




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## ctenidae (Sep 29, 2011)

That free throw from the 50 yard line in the 3rd half was awesome. I don't think I've ever seen a horse jump that high, and the way the strikers handled their football bats was magical. If it had gone into penalty time, I don't think the goalie could have taken another shelling from the defense.


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## Trekchick (Sep 29, 2011)

The games yesterday kept me on the edge of my seat.  
For the Sox Fans, Seriously, I feel bad for you.


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## Geoff (Sep 29, 2011)

Trekchick said:


> The games yesterday kept me on the edge of my seat.
> For the Sox Fans, Seriously, I feel bad for you.



It isn't the first time.   There were a couple of epic meltdowns in the 1970's.   There was the blown game 6 in the 1986 world series against the Mets.   The Red Sox went 7-20 in September.   Starting pitching was pathetic.   If they had somehow backed into the playoffs, they would have gotten slaughtered.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the Theo Epstein free agent signing mistakes that look to be turning the Red Sox into the Mets.   Lackey and Crawford are going to screw up the team for many years.   Adrian Gonzalez vanished when it was crunch time.


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## Nick (Sep 29, 2011)

How could we savor the sweet taste of victory if not having experienced the utter despair of horrific losing streaks :lol:


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## snowmonster (Sep 29, 2011)

The bastards killed our fathers. Now, they're coming for us.


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## Nick (Sep 29, 2011)

Hahahah. 

Unreal, truly. From the Globe: 



> The fact is that these Red Sox - the “Best Team Ever,’’ the team Josh Beckett said could win 100 games, wound up *losing 20 of 27 games in September.*



Ouch!


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## thetrailboss (Sep 29, 2011)

Nick said:


> Hahahah.
> 
> Unreal, truly. From the Globe:
> 
> ...


 
You didn't know that?  It has been batted around the media for a long time (bad pun I know).


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## snowmonster (Sep 29, 2011)

I still have that scene replaying in my mind: Shaughnessy getting interviewed on NESN at the start of the rain delay. Shaughnessy saying that Red Sox fans should rest easy tonight because there was no way that the Devil Rays were climbing out of a 7-0 hole. 

There you go, curly. New material for your new book on the new curse of the Bambino.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 29, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> I still have that scene replaying in my mind: Shaughnessy getting interviewed on NESN at the start of the rain delay. Shaughnessy saying that Red Sox fans should rest easy tonight because there was no way that the Devil Rays were climbing out of a 7-0 hole.
> 
> There you go, curly. New material for your new book on the new curse of the Bambino.


 
You remember that as well?  I recall the guys on ESPN yesterday confidently saying that the Sox were going to win.  Riiiggghhhhttt.  Kind of like Joe Buck's statement in the 2003 ALCS that the 'Red Sox were X outs away from going to the World Series.'  I said, "now that you said that, they won't now."


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## deadheadskier (Sep 29, 2011)

Geoff said:


> Personally, I'm more concerned about the Theo Epstein free agent signing mistakes that look to be turning the Red Sox into the Mets.   Lackey and Crawford are going to screw up the team for many years.   Adrian Gonzalez vanished when it was crunch time.



yup,

Theo has screwed up literally a half a billion dollars in free agent signings.  You've got 300 million in Crawford, Lackey and Drew alone.

If I'm John Henry, Theo is the first to go


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## Nick (Sep 29, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> You didn't know that?  It has been batted around the media for a long time (bad pun I know).



I was vaguely aware they had been losing left and right but never really looked at the aggregated month's results.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 29, 2011)

It's bad, but it's not 1986.


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## snowmonster (Sep 29, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> yup,
> 
> Theo has screwed up literally a half a billion dollars in free agent signings.  You've got 300 million in Crawford, Lackey and Drew alone.
> 
> If I'm John Henry, Theo is the first to go



I hate to say this but Buck Showalter was right about Theo. (And credit to him and his Orioles: they respected the Game and played tough 'til the end. I cannot fault a team for that.)

I could never understand this hero worship about Theo. Never. As far as I am concerned, the 2004 team was largely assembled by Dan Duquette and the key parts of the 2007 team (Beckett and Lowell) were signed while Theo was skulking around Fenway in a gorilla suit. Of course, he made great signings (Schilling, Ortiz) but that's outweighed by his duds (who's playing SS?, Drew, Lackey, Gagne). And with John Henry's war chest behind you, even an idiot like me is bound to sign a good player every now and then.

I still remember the first Dice-K press conference where Theo was falling all over himself pandering to the Japanese media. I remember him calling Dice-K a "national treasure." I felt sick. How can you say that about someone who hasn't proven himself on the MLB stage? I have a lot of respect for Japanese baseball (I watch it more than I care to admit) but, before Dice-K, I had only one answer every time someone got too moony-eyed about the prospects of a Japanese pitcher dominating in the MLB: Hideo Nomo.

I'm not saying the guy should go. But, I think a less romantic assessment of Theo's baseball talents is in order.


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## Black Phantom (Sep 29, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> yup,
> 
> Theo has screwed up literally a half a billion dollars in free agent signings.  You've got 300 million in Crawford, Lackey and Drew alone.
> 
> If I'm John Henry, Theo is the first to go



You really think Henry threw the keys to the car and said drive it as fast as you want?

It's BS to think that the highest levels of the organization did not go out and say sign some big names to create a splash.  There were only so many players to go after and it backfired horrifically.

Theo Epstein doesn't get the blame for this.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 29, 2011)

Theo called Henry in London to ask for 142M to pay Carl Crawford.  The highest offer anyone else had on the table was 6 years and 106M (the Angels)  He grossly overpaid for Lackey, Drew, Dice K, Lugo, Renteria, Scutoro, Jenks......on and on.

Eventually all those cumulative mistakes add up and you have a situation like the Mets are in as Geoff points out.  Then when someone comes along who could really help your team (Texiera recently), you don't have the dough to sign them.  I wouldn't be surprised to see some key free agents go to the Yankees in the next few years because the Red Sox over invested now on some of the current players.


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## Gnarcissaro (Sep 29, 2011)

I watched this in the post-game last night and it pissed me right off. Does anyone else want to reach through the screen and shake A-Gone in this clip?

Here it is

God has a plan? GOD HAS A PLAN?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!! GOD HAS A PLAN?!!!!?!!!!

Seriously, dude??Go throw yourself off the Tobin, Adrian. I understand being religious, but act like you give a shit. Such an easy cop-out, at least Papelbon stands up and take responsibility when he sucks. You aren't in San Diego anymore, you're not allowed to be complacent when you lose here.


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## JimG. (Sep 29, 2011)

You guys are gentlemen I'll give you that.

I'm a Yankee fan and I was pissed that they gave up a 7 run lead and let the Rays win. Mark my words, they are going to pay for that.

I would much rather that the Yanks had won and at least made the Rays beat the Sox to get in. The Rays are dangerous and I will not be surprised to see them knock the Yanks out of the playoffs.

Normally I would relish the way the Sox went down, but frankly it was painful to watch them hawk up a hairball the size of Jupiter in the last month.


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## kickstand (Sep 29, 2011)

My two favorite stats going into last night's game were these:

- The Sox were 77-0 when leading after the 8th inning
- On Sept. 1, when the Sox were 9 games up, they were given a 99.6% chance of making the playoffs

I'm as big a Sox fan as the next guy, but I'm glad they lost.  I could never get behind this team.  I think a lot of it was the pre-season hype.  It was also the bad free agent signings.  Lackey has historically pitched poorly at Fenway, and now he gets to make 14-16 starts per year in the building?  Add in the fact he's a jackass, and it's an even worse signing.  I never understood how Crawford fit into this team.  Nice player and all, but not for that kind of money.  On this team, I saw him as an 8 or 9 hitter.  8 or 9 hitters don't command $161m.  I also don't think they were expecting Ellsbury to have this kind of year, but signing Crawford as insurance was not necessary.


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## snowmonster (Sep 29, 2011)

So this is what .4% feels like.


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## Trekchick (Sep 30, 2011)

JimG. said:


> You guys are gentlemen I'll give you that.
> 
> I'm a Yankee fan and I was pissed that they gave up a 7 run lead and let the Rays win. Mark my words, they are going to pay for that.
> 
> ...


The Rays are THAT team that can surprise the crap out of you!


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## snowmonster (Sep 30, 2011)

Looks like Tito is out of a job...


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## JimG. (Sep 30, 2011)

Firing Francona is bullshit...

assuming he got fired and didn't quit.


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## Geoff (Sep 30, 2011)

JimG. said:


> Firing Francona is bullshit...
> 
> assuming he got fired and didn't quit.



Based on what is now being revealed about the dysfunctional clubhouse, it seems like it was Francoma's time.   My problem with the guy was that he'd stick with pitchers who had obviously lost it.   He cost the Red Sox a ton of games by leaving pitchers in too long.    We had a month of Wakefield throwing meatballs trying to get to 200 wins.

Theo also deserves a ton of the blame.   Carl Crawford was a disaster signing.   He's not a team player and he only came to Boston because of the money.    The John Lackey debacle has been well documented.  

I think the owners will take inventory and decide that Theo Epstein needs to go, too.   He turned the Red Sox into the Mets.   It will take several years to undo the damage.


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## ZYDECORICH (Oct 1, 2011)

I guess now that the Sox have spent all that money and now have nothing, puts to rest the argument that the Yanks are always trying to buy a championship. You spend money and hope for the best if you have it. For Boston it didn't work out this time. I don't want to hear that argument anymore. The Rays have I think the 3rd lowest payroll. Crawford will adjust eventually I think, and be good for a few years even though you overpaid. Adrian is a stud, I guess don't play him in too many night games (what"s that all about?).Lackey? Good luck, maybe he needs a bloody sock. Lick your wounds and swallow that chowder, even though the clams are a little tougher.


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## tjf67 (Oct 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Theo called Henry in London to ask for 142M to pay Carl Crawford.  The highest offer anyone else had on the table was 6 years and 106M (the Angels)  He grossly overpaid for Lackey, Drew, Dice K, Lugo, Renteria, Scutoro, Jenks......on and on.
> 
> Eventually all those cumulative mistakes add up and you have a situation like the Mets are in as Geoff points out.  Then when someone comes along who could really help your team (Texiera recently), you don't have the dough to sign them.  I wouldn't be surprised to see some key free agents go to the Yankees in the next few years because the Red Sox over invested now on some of the current players.



Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen.  Injuries and that lack of backbone that New Englanders are know for was you downfall.   You chumps are in trouble for a while.   

How's nursing school going fart pie?  Is the little lady getting sick of supporting your sorry ass yet?


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## Geoff (Oct 1, 2011)

ZYDECORICH said:


> I guess now that the Sox have spent all that money and now have nothing,



The Red Sox are a business.   They don't "have nothing".   They fill their ballpark.  Their captive cable TV network NESN rakes in the dollars from cable TV contracts that force the cable TV operators to pay them a few bucks per month per subscriber.   NESN sells TV advertising for big bucks.   There's a radio contract.  They sell millions worth of shirts and pink hats.

What the Red Sox care about as a business is that the team is in the running for a playoff slot every year.   Recall that a year ago, nobody watched NESN during the month of September.    I'll bet the ratings were quite different the last week of the season this year.

If Boston doesn't do something to correct their problems, they risk having the whole thing crumble.   You can't support that huge payroll without the TV revenue.   You don't get the TV revenue unless the team wins.   I'd expect some major changes.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 1, 2011)

JimG. said:


> Firing Francona is bullshit...
> 
> assuming he got fired and didn't quit.


 
+ 1.  Theo should be gone.


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## Gnarcissaro (Oct 1, 2011)

If this is true, it is BS. Drinkin in the clubhouse? Sounds like it was time for a change.

From ESPN.com



> The Boston Herald reported another divisive issue, citing sources as saying that pitchers were allowed to drink beer in the clubhouse on their off days. A Red Sox source not only confirmed to ESPNBoston.com that was the case, but also said that it "has been going on for two years."
> 
> Francona didn't want to go there Friday afternoon, reasoning that if as manager, he'd never singled out players before for petty crimes and misdemeanors, including the poster boy for such behavior, Manny Ramirez, he wasn't about to start now.
> 
> ...


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## ZYDECORICH (Oct 2, 2011)

Geoff said:


> The Red Sox are a business.   They don't "have nothing".   They fill their ballpark.  Their captive cable TV network NESN rakes in the dollars from cable TV contracts that force the cable TV operators to pay them a few bucks per month per subscriber.   NESN sells TV advertising for big bucks.   There's a radio contract.  They sell millions worth of shirts and pink hats.
> 
> What the Red Sox care about as a business is that the team is in the running for a playoff slot every year.   Recall that a year ago, nobody watched NESN during the month of September.    I'll bet the ratings were quite different the last week of the season this year.
> 
> If Boston doesn't do something to correct their problems, they risk having the whole thing crumble.   You can't support that huge payroll without the TV revenue.   You don't get the TV revenue unless the team wins.   I'd expect some major changes.





What I meant was they have nothing to show for as far as a post season this year. I'm sure they will bounce back. The team has talent, but are at this point are in disarray.


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## Nick (Oct 3, 2011)

So much drama, I was listening to an interview with Youkilas this morning on the radio. Between locker room brewskis, complaints about pitching, and apparently mis-quotes by journalists, sounds like the entire world is unraveling!


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## snowmonster (Oct 4, 2011)

Who the hell is Youkilas?


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## Nick (Oct 4, 2011)

However its spelled, man you are really working hard at trying to torture me :roll:


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## Nick (Oct 4, 2011)

Only one letter off...  Lame.. 

.. http://www.google.com/m/url?client=...qQIwAA&usg=AFQjCNGroLSU8jt3PqwdVKQ-nRMyaXiYFg


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## snowmonster (Oct 5, 2011)

^ Just bustin'! =) 

Looks like you and me are the only ones up at night on AZ.


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## Nick (Oct 5, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> ^ Just bustin'! =)
> 
> Looks like you and me are the only ones up at night on AZ.



I figured I had completely butchered it at first :smash:

Last night was *fairly* late for me. Normally I'm out at like 10:30, 11 latest.


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## snowmonster (Oct 5, 2011)

I mentally prepare myself to be up until 1 AM this time of year. However, the bloody Red Sox had other plans...


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## Geoff (Oct 5, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> I mentally prepare myself to be up until 1 AM this time of year. However, the bloody Red Sox had other plans...



The Patriots have 2 Sunday night games and a second Monday night game.    Those are my 4 late football nights.   I'm happy the Pats don't have any Thursday games or Saturday night games this year.


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## gmcunni (Nov 30, 2011)

Bobby V to the Red Sox?   My brush with fame was Bobby stepping on my foot in his bar in Stamford CT


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2011)

It will be a one year marriage.  Bobby V signing is just to get asses in seats for next season.  No more, no less.  The Free Agent market lacks the talent for the Sox to go out and sign players that will make much of a difference.  They spent a boat load last year on Agon and Crawford and it got them no where.  They're not going to go out and overspend again, especially when the talent that's available is so poor or doesn't make sense (Fielder, Pujols).  

The Sox will probably make the wildcard 1 game playoff and lose.  Valentine takes the fall, John Farrell or Joe Madden becomes available, Sox sign one of them, shed some payroll to sign new free agents and hope to contend again in 2013.

In the words of our old friend Theo Epstein, 2012 is a bridge year.


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