# Sochi Olympics



## wa-loaf (Aug 1, 2013)

So this may tread on the political ...

Russia recently passed a pretty draconian anti-gay law and groups of thugs are going around beating up and kidnapping gays. The Sports minister just said that they would be enforcing that law at the Olympics (contrary to what the IOC said). Soo... what are the odds this Olympics either gets boycotted or is a complete disaster with athletes and fans getting arrested or beat up (even wearing a rainbow flag is illegal)?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/r...gay-law-for-athletes-fans-during-olympics.php


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## Puck it (Aug 1, 2013)

Saw this.  It could blow up if GAL groups want to bring up.  Potentail is there.


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## wa-loaf (Aug 1, 2013)

I don't see them being able to resist the urge to do that.


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## Puck it (Aug 1, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> I don't see them being able to resist the urge to do that.


  I know I was trying to be nice. GAL tend to be in our face about it.  And I really don't care.

I am ordering a straight pride flag though.


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## Abubob (Aug 1, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> So this may tread on the political ...





> “An athlete of nontraditional sexual orientation isn’t banned from coming to Sochi,” Vitaly Mutko said in an interview with R-Sport, the sports newswire of state news agency RIA Novosti. “But if he goes out into the streets and starts to propagandize, then of course he will be held accountable.”





> “The corresponding law doesn’t forbid non-traditional orientation, but other things: propaganda, involvement of minors and the youth.”



In other words - keep your sexual/political views to yourself and no one will get hurt. It seems that it doesn't stop homosexuality ie. nontraditional sexual orientation as much as it does "gay pride". In other words - If you got it, don't flaunt it. In other words - Keep it in the closet.

Very KGB like.

Very much a political issue.


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## bobbutts (Aug 1, 2013)

The astounding thing to me was the unanimous support for this law in Russia's parliament.  Totally different culture over there if that many politicians can agree on anything at all, let alone a homophobic hate bill.


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## AdironRider (Aug 1, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> The astounding thing to me was the unanimous support for this law in Russia's parliament.  Totally different culture over there if that many politicians can agree on anything at all, let alone a homophobic hate bill.



First and foremost, I do not support Russia's legislation on the matter whatsoever. Some close friends as well as family are gay, and I have no issues with it. That being said, this is not-our country and not our cultural or legal system, so as much as it pains me to say this, its not something we should be messing around in frankly. It just wont end well. The notion of if got it, don't flaunt it seems like a decent rule for this situation. It doesn't need to be broadcast in certain situations, and I think this one applies. Its a non-issue other than for pride reasons, which I think can go to the backburner for a couple weeks and lets focus on the athletes and competition, not whether they want to get married or what have you.


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## Hawkshot99 (Aug 1, 2013)

When you are a guest somewhere you abide by there laws, traditions, and respect their ways.
Different cultures do things differently. You wouldnt go to a Communist country and start have huge Democracy rallys without getting in trouble.

The Olympics are about sports. Gay, straight, whatever has nothing to do with them and this should have nothing to do with the games.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## Smellytele (Aug 1, 2013)

The Snowden issue may led to a boycott as well


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## drjeff (Aug 1, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> When you are a guest somewhere you abide by there laws, traditions, and respect their ways.
> Different cultures do things differently. You wouldnt go to a Communist country and start have huge Democracy rallys without getting in trouble.
> 
> The Olympics are about sports. Gay, straight, whatever has nothing to do with them and this should have nothing to do with the games.
> ...



Well put! 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## marcski (Aug 1, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> When you are a guest somewhere you abide by there laws, traditions, and respect their ways.
> Different cultures do things differently. You wouldnt go to a Communist country and start have huge Democracy rallys without getting in trouble.



My buddy's dad was a pre-eminent engineer in his niche. Back in the early 70's, the International group of engineers that make the scientific standards in that industry had its' annual meeting in Russia. For their group picture, he busts out a big, bright stars and stripes,  red, white and blue sweater!  I've seen the pic....classic cold war era stuff you just have to love.

But, I totally agree with your post.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 2, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> When you are a guest somewhere you abide by there laws, traditions, and respect their ways.
> Different cultures do things differently. You wouldnt go to a Communist country and start have huge Democracy rallys without getting in trouble.
> 
> The Olympics are about sports. Gay, straight, whatever has nothing to do with them and this should have nothing to do with the games.
> ...



While the Olympics are about sport, what happens when athletes win a competition?  They celebrate with their teammates and loved ones.  It's not uncommon at all to see athletes embrace their spouses following a win, no matter what the competition.  So, a straight person can hug their spouse after a win in the upcoming Olympics, but a gay person has to fear persecution? 

If I were a gay athlete, I would not go to the games.  Hell, if I were a gay spectator and had to fear thugs beating me up for showing any affection towards my spouse, then I wouldn't attend the games.  

I agree with the when in Rome, do as the Romans do sentiment, but I also fully support an individual athletes decision to boycott the games over such legislation.  Truthfully, I'd even be supportive of a Nation's decision to boycott the Games.

If that sounds unreasonable, answer me this.... 

If Qatar were to have hosted the games prior to last year (when they finally permitted female Olympic athletes of their own) do you think the US team and countless other nations would have competed?


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## spring_mountain_high (Aug 2, 2013)

half-kidding here, but men's figure skating may not even happen 

also, i've read and heard that the olympic village is basically a giant orgy, so if they do in fact choose to strictly enforce the law, it's going to get ugly


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 2, 2013)

Hawk : Well put ! DHS i would certainly hope that any honest form of celebration would be tolerate , hell we have all had taps on the butt or quick bro hugs upon some spectacular achievement . Mebbe i am an eternal optimist but i would say if the "politics of the issue " are less demonstrative and in your face thatcommon sense will prevail . AFTER all it will be on all forms of Media for everyone to see and thus react .


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## HowieT2 (Aug 2, 2013)

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/08/russia-back-anti-gay-laws-during-sochi-olympics/67904/

the when in rome sentiment is all well and good, but I draw the line when people are being persecuted and physically abused.  the nazis didnt start gassing people from day one.  it started with things like this.  and the olympics were in munich in 1936.  just sayin'


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## Mapnut (Aug 2, 2013)

It's interesting to speculate. Is there still a strict ban on any kind of political statements by athletes at the Olympics? Given the media coverage, it may be very tempting for gay spectators to stage some demonstrations. Would the Russian authorities be willing to accept the bad publicity to enforce the law? I saw a report on Russian gay activists publicly defying the law, and getting beaten up by gangs of thugs. In those cases you could say the government let the public enforce the law, but what would they choose to enforce at the Olympics?


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## spring_mountain_high (Aug 2, 2013)

i don't think vlad-ass putin cares about bad publicity


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## Mapnut (Aug 2, 2013)

Who owns and operates the ski resort? They may care. Hell, even Kim Jong-Un might care.


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## x10003q (Aug 2, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> The Olympics are about sports.
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


Right, that's why they raise your country's flag and play the national anthem when you win gold. If the Olympics were only about sports there would be no flags and all that goes along with the flags. The Olympics are about money, showing how great your political system works, and then sports. In 1980 the USA boycotted the summer Olympics in Moscow and they returned the favor in 1984 LA summer Olympics. ............................................Anti-Gay lawmaking is right out of the Nazi playbook...a book co-authored by many Russian leaders throughout history. Old habits die hard.:evil:


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## deadheadskier (Aug 3, 2013)

I've given a bit more thought about the when in Rome do as the Romans do sentiment, and the more I think about it, isn't that the complete opposite of what the games are supposed to be about?  

The Olympics have never been entirely about the Host Nation and their culture. For the most part, the host nation gets the stage two times to show off their virtues, during the opening and closing ceremonies.   In between, the Olympic spirit has been about celebrating and accepting all nations and their cultures in the spirit of sport.  The spirit of the games is for the entire world to pause and take a break from cultural, political and military differences among nations and just have fun and play some games.  A recess and respite every four years from what can be an ugly world to celebrate humanity.  Only during World War 1 and 2 have the games not occurred due to nations not being able to put their differences aside.  There have been nation boycotts (famously the USA for the 1980 Russian Olympics and Russia during the 1984 LA Olympics), but the Olympics pretty much have always gone on no matter what since 1896.

I'll try and be an optimist like Warp and hope that the games will follow traditional spirit and there will be great tolerance and minimal issues concerning gay participation at Sochi, whether it be the athletes or spectators.   

That said, the warning by Putin and Russia to "behave and don't promote that you are gay" tone is anti-Olympic spirit in my opinion.  Very disappointing to see a host nation grand stand like that no matter what the issue is. If this legislation and international warning from Russia came out prior to the site selection for the 2014 Winter Olympics; would Russia have won selection to host the games?

I think and hope not.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 3, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB_Bvl4R1YA

Wasn't that special.


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## mister moose (Aug 3, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I've given a bit more thought about the when in Rome do as the Romans do sentiment, and the more I think about it, isn't that the complete opposite of what the games are supposed to be about?
> 
> The Olympics have never been entirely about the Host Nation and their culture. For the most part, the host nation gets the stage two times to show off their virtues, during the opening and closing ceremonies. In between, the Olympic spirit has been about celebrating and accepting all nations and their cultures in the spirit of sport. The spirit of the games is for the entire world to pause and take a break from cultural, political and military differences among nations and just have fun and play some games. A recess and respite every four years from what can be an ugly world to celebrate humanity. Only during World War 1 and 2 have the games not occurred due to nations not being able to put their differences aside. There have been nation boycotts (famously the USA for the 1980 Russian Olympics and Russia during the 1984 LA Olympics), but the Olympics pretty much have always gone on no matter what since 1896.
> 
> ...



Rule #1. The laws of the host country prevail.
Rule #2. Not every country has the same laws you do.
Rule #3. When you are a guest of a foreign country, you obey the laws in that country. Doesn't matter if you are an olympic athlete, an international spy on the run, a rock star, or a billionaire.


I'm sure there are some gay Russian athletes that will be competing. 

We live in one of the most open and free societies in the world. If we boycotted every host country that did not have laws as open as ours, or did not have laws we agreed with, we would go to very few olympics. The olympics are not the place to put on a demonstration against the laws of the host country. That makes it political. The olympics are about sport. Put on the Tshirt, play the game. You don't need to proclaim your religion, ethnicity, or global warming stance. You might even be in a counry where free speech is not protected.


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## David Metsky (Aug 3, 2013)

mister moose said:


> Rule #1. The laws of the host country prevail.


If the law had been in place when the Games were awarded, Sochi would never have gotten the bid.


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## mister moose (Aug 3, 2013)

David Metsky said:


> If the law had been in place when the Games were awarded, Sochi would never have gotten the bid.



So by your theory, Russia will never again host the olympics if that law remains on the books.  Somehow I doubt that.


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## Hawkshot99 (Aug 3, 2013)

David Metsky said:


> If the law had been in place when the Games were awarded, Sochi would never have gotten the bid.





mister moose said:


> So by your theory, Russia will never again host the olympics if that law remains on the books.  Somehow I doubt that.



The Soviet Union was known for being really nice to its people during the purges, but they hosted the games in 80'.  The Nazis hosted both the summer and winter games in 36'.  China oppresses many of their peoples freedoms, but were awarded for 08'.


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## arik (Aug 6, 2013)

I have mixed feelings, would hate for the athletes who have worked so hard to have to miss the Olympics because of a boycott, but also find the law and political environment there pretty scary.

there has been some media coverage of possible forced labor / human trafficking involved in building the Olympic venues:

http://www.uznews.net/news_single.php?lng=en&cid=3&nid=22001
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/716653.shtml
http://carnegieendowment.org/2013/04/10/controversy-and-concern-over-sochi-olympics/fyyh


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 7, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I am ordering a straight pride flag though.



That's HYSTERICAL!  I've never seen that.



HowieT2 said:


> * the nazis didnt start gassing people from day one.*  it started with things like this.  and *the olympics were in munich in 1936.*  just sayin'



No, they just dragged people out of their homes in the middle of the night and executed them.  In 1934 (Long before the Olympics).



deadheadskier said:


> I've given a bit more thought about the when in Rome do as the Romans do sentiment, and the more I think about it, isn't that the complete opposite of what the games are supposed to be about?



That logic would hold more water had the 2008 Summer games not taken place in China.  Frankly, I'm amazed as the "fuss" this is creating given that fact.  China > Russia (and that's an understatement) in terms of oppression, etc...



David Metsky said:


> *If the law had been in place when the Games were awarded, Sochi would never have gotten the bid*.



Clearly false.  Again ---->  SEE: China

The Olympic games awarding process is now, and has been, about money, sex, politics, and scandal.  It's romantic fiction to think otherwise.  The same with FIFA and the World Cup.  Qatar getting the world cup?  A country of only 1.5 million people?  In summer?  When it could be 120 degrees (literally)?  I'd love to see the Swiss Bank transactions that took place for Qatar to "win" that process. lol


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## Rambo (Aug 7, 2013)

Caught the Prez on the news this morning. Get him away from his teleprompter and he is basically clueless. They showed him talking about the Russian Olympics and the anti-gay Russian laws and he said, All athletes be they gay should have equal rights under the law, then he said, Be they run track, perform in the pool or on the balance beam... The Prez doesn't seem to know we are talking about the 2014 Russian Sochi, WINTER OLYMPICS!


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## bigbog (Aug 7, 2013)

The congressional wanna-be control freaks should do what Carter should've done....acknowledge our differences(ie mister moose), suck it up and desist from any self-serving speeches....and send the athletes to compete. 
 As mentioned, there will be more than a few closet gay athletes coming from Russia and Ukraine alone. I think we should attend, if only to stand in Putin's face, with those who are also disgusted with the strong-boy Putin's parochial policy...


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## bobbutts (Aug 7, 2013)

I think everyone agrees with the when in Rome thing, but there has to be a limit to that.  Hopefully none of us would have participated in the holocaust just because we visiting in Germany at the time.  I think the more relevant question is which side of that line these Russian laws are on.


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## Edd (Aug 7, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> I think everyone agrees with the when in Rome thing, but there has to be a limit to that.  Hopefully none of us would have participated in the holocaust just because we visiting in Germany at the time.  I think the more relevant question is which side of that line these Russian laws are on.



I don't know the points about the recent games in China are sound. Is Russia worse on human rights than China?  No idea but my guess is that it's a toss-up.


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## wa-loaf (Aug 7, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> No, they just dragged people out of their homes in the middle of the night and executed them.  In 1934 (Long before the Olympics).



You're right. Because torturing them first before killing them is different.

http://americablog.com/2013/08/young-gay-teen-tortured-by-russian-vigilantes-reportedly-dies.html


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 7, 2013)

I think the real debate is whether the IOC was responsible for World War II

Here are the host countries prior to/during WWII

1920 - Belgium
1924 - France
1928 - Netherlands
1932 - US
1936 - Germany
1940 - Japan (cancelled)
1944 - England (cancelled)


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## ScottySkis (Aug 7, 2013)

Us president just squashed meeting with Russia president next month maybe it will effed the Olympics.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't have a problem with their law.


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## Edd (Aug 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I don't have a problem with their law.



You are the dude who thinks a ghost is hanging in his house so......


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## deadheadskier (Aug 8, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I don't have a problem with their law.



Because you are not Russian and it doesn't affect you?  Would you have a problem if similar legislation were passed here in the US?

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 8, 2013)

mister moose said:


> Rule #1. The laws of the host country prevail.
> Rule #2. Not every country has the same laws you do.
> Rule #3. When you are a guest of a foreign country, you obey the laws in that country. Doesn't matter if you are an olympic athlete, an international spy on the run, a rock star, or a billionaire.
> 
> ...



Agree 100%. At the same time, I strongly doubt that any Olympic athlete would be imprisoned for wearing a rainbow wristband. It will create an international incident of epic proportions. Call Team America!


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## SIKSKIER (Aug 8, 2013)

Aren't these Russian men leaders always kissing each other all the time anyway?


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## steamboat1 (Aug 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Because you are not Russian and it doesn't affect you?  Would you have a problem if similar legislation were passed here in the US?
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


No


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## bobbutts (Aug 8, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> No


Thankfully America disagrees with you.  Now I see why it's better to keep politics out of AZ.  You are now forever homophobe steamboat1 to me now.


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## Riverskier (Aug 8, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> Thankfully America disagrees with you. Now I see why it's better to keep politics out of AZ. You are now forever homophobe steamboat1 to me now.



Hey, to each their own. Political discussions are only problematic when people are incapable of repecting the opinion of others.


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## spring_mountain_high (Aug 8, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> Hey, to each their own. Political discussions are only problematic when people are incapable of repecting the opinion of others.



agreed...please be respectful of steamboat1's opinion that it's ok to persecute people based on their sexual orientation


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## wa-loaf (Aug 8, 2013)

spring_mountain_high said:


> agreed...please be respectful of steamboat1's opinion that it's ok to persecute people based on their sexual orientation



lol


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## Riverskier (Aug 8, 2013)

spring_mountain_high said:


> agreed...please be respectful of steamboat1's opinion that it's ok to persecute people based on their sexual orientation



First off, I personally think the law is stupid and wouldn't support that in the US. However, having just read the article linked to this thread and not having studied the law itself, it appears the law bans gay pride rallies and prohibits the distribution of gay paraphenalia to children. That is a far cry from what I would call persecuting someone based on their sexual orientation.


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## wa-loaf (Aug 8, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> First off, I personally think the law is stupid and wouldn't support that in the US. However, having just read the article linked to this thread and not having studied the law itself, it appears the law bans gay pride rallies and prohibits the distribution of gay paraphenalia to children. That is a far cry from what I would call persecuting someone based on their sexual orientation.



There's a hell of a lot more to it than that.


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## Riverskier (Aug 8, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> There's a hell of a lot more to it than that.



There may well be. Like I said, I only read the article you posted, and even the first line described the law as a "new law cracking down on gay rights activism". That is a far cry from what I consider the persecution of a group of people. I mean, even in the US, whether or not schools should teach kids about homosexuality has been a recent topic of discussion, and more than just a small minority don't believe it should be.


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## bousquet19 (Aug 8, 2013)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyd-z...from-their-own-winter-olympics_b_3720026.html

How about this author's suggestion? Ban Russia from their own Olympics.  It's an action the IOC, which chose Sochi in the first place, can take.

Woody


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## MadMadWorld (Aug 8, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> First off, I personally think the law is stupid and wouldn't support that in the US. However, having just read the article linked to this thread and not having studied the law itself, it appears the law bans gay pride rallies and prohibits the distribution of gay paraphenalia to children. That is a far cry from what I would call persecuting someone based on their sexual orientation.



No stranger should walk up to a child and promote any sexual orientation: hetero or homosexual. If that was their intention then the law would have encompassed everyone.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Riverskier (Aug 8, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> No stranger should walk up to a child and promote any sexual orientation: hetero or homosexual. If that was their intention then the law would have encompassed everyone.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app



I have no idea what their intention was, but even if that was their intention, there is probably no reason to encompass everyone even if it would be more politicially correct to do so. There is no symbol of heterosexuality, no heterosexual parades, no heterosexual pride rallies, etc. However, there is an albeit small portion of the homosexual population that feels a need to celebrate their sexual orientation and shout it from roof tops.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 8, 2013)

I think a strong argument could be made that the activities of many churches are a continuous rally promoting heterosexuality and demonizing homosexuality


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## snoseek (Aug 8, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> Thankfully America disagrees with you.  Now I see why it's better to keep politics out of AZ.  You are now forever homophobe steamboat1 to me now.


+1


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## snoseek (Aug 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think a strong argument could be made that the activities of many churches are a continuous rally promoting heterosexuality and demonizing homosexuality


  Yeah just send em to gay camp and straighten em out. God loves all his children right.....The church can fix them....


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## bigbog (Aug 8, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> I think everyone agrees with the when in Rome thing, but there has to be a limit to that.  Hopefully none of us would have participated in the holocaust just because we visiting in Germany at the time.  I think the more relevant question is which side of that line these Russian laws are on.




Odd how the US media won't even talk about internal politics within any other country but the US.
Virtually every other sentence on CNN and Fox deals with the "_*What Ifs*_" and the "_*political ramifications*__"_(or is that implications..??), yet when it comes to Russia...every bonehead "Analyst" is screaming..._All Politics is Global_...The End is Near.  The DOD sure has this so-called fact-finding media in its pocket.  A bunch of whores...that's all they are..
American television would make Pravda proud......


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## bigbog (Aug 8, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Aren't these Russian men leaders always kissing each other all the time anyway?



At the beginning of this thing that's just was I was going to mention SIKSKIER....good one.


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## ScottySkis (Aug 8, 2013)

bigbog said:


> Odd how the US media won't even talk about internal politics within any other country but the US.
> Virtually every other sentence on CNN and Fox deals with the "_*What Ifs*_" and the "_*political ramifications*__"_(or is that implications..??), yet when it comes to Russia...every bonehead "Analyst" is screaming..._All Politics is Global_...The End is Near.  The DOD sure has this so-called fact-finding media in its pocket.  A bunch of whores...that's all they are..
> American television would make Pravda proud......



PBS is good news cast from 7 pm to 750 pm I like them a lot.


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## HowieT2 (Aug 8, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> First off, I personally think the law is stupid and wouldn't support that in the US. However, having just read the article linked to this thread and not having studied the law itself, it appears the law bans gay pride rallies and prohibits the distribution of gay paraphenalia to children. That is a far cry from what I would call persecuting someone based on their sexual orientation.



the law is offensive but in and of itself, only somewhat troubling.  But what is also happening is that gays are being beaten and killed with what appears to be the encouragement if not the active participation of the authorities.  And the law gives these very same authorities an explicit mandate to detain anyone who appears to be gay.  (Better watch what you wear on your Olympic vacation)
There are many countries that have laws that discriminate against one group or another, Muslim countries in particular with woman, but for the most part, they aren't physically attacking them.


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## HowieT2 (Aug 8, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> No



I should refrain, but i must ask, you wouldn't have a problem if the nypd started to roundup gay people in Brooklyn?  Really?


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## steamboat1 (Aug 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think a strong argument could be made that the activities of many churches are a continuous rally promoting heterosexuality and demonizing homosexuality



Are you f'ing kidding me. Everyone thinks the church is gay.

It's part of the current administrations demonizing of the church

Marriage is between a man & a women.

Always has been, always should be.

Couldn't give a crap what you say.

When I see a guys making baby's with guys or girls making baby's with girls maybe I'll change.

Otherwise not.

Can't see me changing unless there is  biological breakthrough


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## steamboat1 (Aug 8, 2013)

HowieT2 said:


> I should refrain, but i must ask, you wouldn't have a problem if the nypd started to roundup gay people in Brooklyn?  Really?


If they become annoying why not.

If they want to f'uk eachother up the arze that's there problem.

Society shouldn't approve those behaviors.


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## Edd (Aug 8, 2013)

I humbly suggest we all lay off Steamboat. You would think he knew damn well what would happen when he made post #35 but, hey, now he knows. 

He feels the way he feels.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 8, 2013)

Edd said:


> I humbly suggest we all lay off Steamboat. You would think he knew damn well what would happen when he made post #35 but, hey, now he knows.
> 
> He feels the way he feels.


And couldn't give a f'k what you think either.

Bring it on.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> If they become annoying why not.
> 
> If they want to f'uk eachother up the arze that's there problem.
> 
> Society shouldn't approve those behaviors.



Wow, any other groups of people in society you think should be rounded up if you deem them "annoying".

And talk about a contradicting statement.  First you say their choice in romantic partners is their problem. Then you say society shouldn't approve their choices.  
So, which is it?  Is it their business to live how they see fit and pursue happiness in a life that harms no one (just as all heterosexuals try to do romantically) or is it society's business to tell gay and lesbians how to live THEIR lives?


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## steamboat1 (Aug 9, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Wow, any other groups of people in society you think should be rounded up if you deem them "annoying".
> 
> And talk about a contradicting statement.  First you say their choice in romantic partners is their problem. Then you say society shouldn't approve their choices.
> So, which is it?  Is it their business to live how they see fit and pursue happiness in a life that harms no one (just as all heterosexuals try to do romantically) or is it society's business to tell gay and lesbians how to live THEIR lives?


Couldn't give a f'k what you say either.

Never said anything about rounding up.Are you on the top or bottom?
Just it shouldn't be considered normal behavior & approved by law.
Are you on the top or bottom?
Maybe you go both ways.


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## Edd (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> And couldn't give a f'k what you think either.
> 
> Bring it on.



Bring it on?  As in try to change your mind?  Don't waste your time with me ding-dong.  You're missing the Hannity rerun that starts at midnight.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 9, 2013)

Ok society has lived with this for century's.

All of a sudden we're wrong.

Who's the ding dong?

Who's Hannity?

Think I've head of him but don't know his view points.


----------



## snoseek (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Ok society has lived with this for century's.
> 
> All of a sudden we're wrong.
> 
> Who's the ding dong?


Society evolves dude. Man you really are an idiot....


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 9, 2013)

snoseek said:


> Society evolves dude. Man you really are an idiot....


And you are all knowing.

What an arse.


----------



## x10003q (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Couldn't give a f'k what you say either.
> 
> Never said anything about rounding up.Are you on the top or bottom?
> Just it shouldn't be considered normal behavior & approved by law.
> ...


 Impressive stuff.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 9, 2013)

x10003q said:


> Impressive stuff.



Glad you liked it.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Never said anything about rounding up.



............ummmm



HowieT2 said:


> I should refrain, but i must ask, you wouldn't have a problem if the nypd started to roundup gay people in Brooklyn? Really?





steamboat1 said:


> If they become annoying why not.





steamboat1 said:


> Are you on the top or bottom?
> Just it shouldn't be considered normal behavior & approved by law.
> Are you on the top or bottom?
> Maybe you go both ways.



I'm heterosexual, pretty certain I even shared some wedding pictures here on AZ.  Many members of this site have met my wife at the AZ summit.

but why do you even care if I'm hetero, gay, bi or whatever?  How does the romantic choices of others affect you in any way?  How would laws protecting the choices of gays affect you in any way?


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 9, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> ............ummmm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't care but at the same time don't approve of it being considered normal,


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I don't care but at the same time don't approve of it being considered normal,



That's quite the internal conflict you got going on.

You personally don't care if people are gay or not, but you very much want society to disapprove of people being gay.

And this all about biology?  Because two men or two women can't procreate?



steamboat1 said:


> When I see a guys making baby's with guys or girls making baby's with girls maybe I'll change.
> 
> Otherwise not.
> 
> Can't see me changing unless there is biological breakthrough



based upon your extreme hard line anti-gay stance, I have a hard time believing you would be accepting of gays even if they could prove "biological" value to you.

Depressing

I was born too early


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 9, 2013)

As long as people are happy together I don't care what their sexuality is. Everyone should have equals rights to sexuality preference and to Plants preference to, I believe  is next major things for our country to get used to it,.just common sense what you think of normal as straight person ( me thinking of women in sexually ways) if I was gay then I would think if men in sexual ways I get that it just way some are.


----------



## kartski (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Marriage is between a man & a women.
> 
> Always has been, always should be.
> 
> Couldn't give a crap what you say.



Old Testament spoke fondly of Polygamy, Slavery and Ridiculously harsh Death Penalties and Society changed and said No.

The Original Olympic Traditions hand Nations that were at War ceasing Hostilities to have the Games, through that could be old time make up sh1t also.


----------



## HowieT2 (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Are you f'ing kidding me. Everyone thinks the church is gay.
> 
> It's part of the current administrations demonizing of the church
> 
> ...



wow!..... Wow!


----------



## HowieT2 (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Ok society has lived with this for century's.
> 
> All of a sudden we're wrong.
> 
> ...



hate to break this to you, but homosexual activity has been practiced been around since the beginning.


----------



## HowieT2 (Aug 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Are you f'ing kidding me. Everyone thinks the church is gay.
> 
> It's part of the current administrations demonizing of the church
> 
> ...



you do know that there are heterosexual couples who can't have babies.  Should they not be permitted to have sex and or marry?
There are also a heck of a lot of heterosexual people who shouldn't have children.  And many heterosexual people engage in activities that are considered by others to be sinful or abnormal.  Want to lock them up too with the gays?  And I guess, while you're rounding people up, you would get anyone from a culture other than yours, since they aren't "normal" to you.  
Keep on watching Fox News.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Aug 9, 2013)

What a shitstorm you guys have started , why not all take deep breaths , GET OUTSIDE !AWAY FROM THE DAMN COMPUTERS and LIVE life .

Listen Opinions are like AZHOLES ! We all got 'em , I may not agree with any of you but ill be damned if i will waste one precious amount of my remaining life energy on shitstorms that go nowhere 

Man do we NEED Snow dammit :-D


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

HowieT2 said:


> Keep on watching Fox News.



And you can go back watching MSNBC and comrade Matthews!!!!!:uzi:


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 9, 2013)

Warp Daddy said:


> What a shitstorm you guys have started , why not all take deep breaths , GET OUTSIDE !AWAY FROM THE DAMN COMPUTERS and LIVE life .
> 
> Listen Opinions are like AZHOLES ! We all got 'em , I may not agree with any of you but ill be damned if i will waste one precious amount of my remaining life energy on shitstorms that go nowhere
> 
> Man do we NEED Snow dammit :-D



It's raining today ...



Puck it said:


> And you can go back watching MSNBC and comrade Matthews!!!!!:uzi:



Thread getting locked in 3, 2, 1 ...


----------



## spring_mountain_high (Aug 9, 2013)

even odds says steamboat1 is a conflicted, self-hating gay...those guys are always the ones who profess to hate the lifestyle the most


----------



## St. Bear (Aug 9, 2013)

Hey guys, how's it going?  I've been away most of the summer, but I'm starting to get back into AZ as the weather cools....
*jaw drops*
My God, what have you done?!?!

/backs out slowly


----------



## HowieT2 (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> And you can go back watching MSNBC and comrade Matthews!!!!!:uzi:



Good comeback!  Unfortunately I don't watch either and try to get my information from sources other than political propaganda machines of any persuasion.  So next time try to add something substantive to the discussion.  At least, others have the character to say how they really feel.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 9, 2013)

spring_mountain_high said:


> even odds says steamboat1 is a conflicted, self-hating gay...those guys are always the ones who profess to hate the lifestyle the most


Who are you?

Dr. Phil.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 9, 2013)

I am starting to wonder if Steamboat's account got hacked by someone. It just sounds like the opinions of a 13 yr old boy trolling around with his friends trying to get a reaction. I really hope that it is because I am embarassed for you. It's one thing to have a different political view than other people but it's another thing to have a visceral hatred towards a group of people simply because of who they are attracted to.


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

HowieT2 said:


> Good comeback! Unfortunately I don't watch either and try to get my information from sources other than political propaganda machines of any persuasion. So next time try to add something substantive to the discussion. At least, others have the character to say how they really feel.




I thought so based on your Fox comment. I have no problems with gay people.  I have gay friends and just went to their wedding two weeks ago. They are not the type to push their agenda on you.  I do have a problem with the professing it and sticking it in your face at every turn.  Thus my straight pride flag which I recieved this week.


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I do have a problem with the professing it and sticking it in your face at every turn.



I don't have a problem with black people I just wish they would stay in the back of the bus and use their own rest rooms ...


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I thought so based on your Fox comment. I have no problems with gay people.  I have gay friends and just went to their wedding two weeks ago. They are not the type to push their agenda on you.  I do have a problem with the professing it and sticking it in your face at every turn.  Thus my straight pride flag which I recieved this week.



You have a problem with gay people professing it, yet you go and buy a straight pride flag to do the opposite?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> I don't have a problem with black people I just wish they would stay in the back of the bus and use their own rest rooms ...




They same goes for any race though.  Nobody should be oppressed.  That may not have come out the way I meant it above.  I do not go around and have a heterosexual parade or oride week.  But it may be a good idea!


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> You have a problem with gay people professing it, yet you go and buy a straight pride flag to do the opposite?
> 
> That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.



Yes it does if you have friends that will find it funny like these guys.


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> They same goes for any race though.  Nobody should be oppressed.  That may not have come out the way I meant it above.  I do not go around and have a heterosexual parade or oride week.  But it may be a good idea!



Heterosexuals aren't repressed. Gays have made a lot of gains recently (in the US anyway) but they wouldn't have gotten there without fighting for it so they need to be somewhat "in your face" about it to assert their rights.


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Yes it does if you have friends that will find it funny like these guys.



I agree but when it is over the top, it is too much and that is my opinion.  And I can have that feeling.

BTW.  I tell my wife every night that I am an oppressed heterosexual.  It works sometimes!!!!!!!  Not very often though.


----------



## Riverskier (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I thought so based on your Fox comment. I have no problems with gay people. I have gay friends and just went to their wedding two weeks ago. They are not the type to push their agenda on you. I do have a problem with the professing it and sticking it in your face at every turn. Thus my straight pride flag which I recieved this week.



Agree on all accounts, and yes, I did get a laugh at the straight pride flag.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck It,

Would you have flown a white pride flag during the rallies leading up to the 1964 Civil Rights Act?


----------



## St. Bear (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I agree but when it is over the top, it is too much and that is my opinion. And I can have that feeling.
> 
> BTW. I tell my wife every night that I am an oppressed heterosexual. It works sometimes!!!!!!! Not very often though.



Change it to repressed, and see if you have better success.


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Puck It,
> 
> Would you have flown a white pride flag during the rallies leading up to the 1964 Civil Rights Act?



Totally different situation, I think. And the straight pride flag is joke between friends. 
I always make fun of myself being a redneck and white cracker.  People get to wound up over stupid shit.  Everyone needs to accept everybody else for what they.  I like you!!!!!!

I need to google a white pride and see what it is.  Probably a confederate flag.

BTW,  I am not predjudice.  Everyone is an equal target!!!!


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Change it to repressed, and see if you have better success.



I will try that tonight since she is back from being in London all week.  I will let you know if it takes.

Say a few "Take, Baby, Take"'s for me tonight.


----------



## bigbog (Aug 9, 2013)

Scotty said:


> PBS is good news cast from 7 pm to 750 pm I like them a lot.



Agree Scotty, don't mind spending time watching that NewsHour..  Used to like Ray Suarez(sp?) on radio with the daily _Talk of the Nation _show.....


----------



## bigbog (Aug 9, 2013)

One knows nothing will happen to either the Ukraine or Russia teams, but I think it's just Putin's cheap attempt to whittle away any competition on the US Teams...thus guaranteeing more Russian gold medals.....


----------



## SIKSKIER (Aug 9, 2013)

Holy shit.What happened here?I have opinions but I'm not getting in on this one.


----------



## snowmonster (Aug 9, 2013)

Just chiming in to say that it looks like we finally have our annual AZ summer thread.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Aug 9, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Holy shit.What happened here?I have opinions but I'm not getting in on this one.



Yup.  Say anything other than the US should boycott the games, and you suddenly become a Homophobes...


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 9, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Just chiming in to say that it looks like we finally have our annual AZ summer thread.



This stuff happens every summer?


----------



## AdironRider (Aug 9, 2013)

Scotty said:


> This stuff happens every summer?



And people think I'm the resident troll. This one got away quickly. Again the law is just against the in your face pride aspect. This is not a big deal.


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 9, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> And people think I'm the resident troll. This one got away quickly. Again the law is just against the in your face pride aspect. This is not a big deal.



Resident troll, why do people think that, I guess I post a lot but that because I am bored commuting 3 + hours on the bus each day.


----------



## AdironRider (Aug 9, 2013)

I wasn't referring to you man.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 9, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Just chiming in to say that it looks like we finally have our annual AZ summer thread.



This was going to be my only contribution here. It has been so quiet up until now.


----------



## Edd (Aug 9, 2013)

I'd like to suggest we put the blame squarely on Wa-Loaf for starting the thread. YEAH, who's with me??!


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 9, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> And people think I'm the resident troll. This one got away quickly. Again the law is just against the in your face pride aspect. This is not a big deal.



??


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 9, 2013)

Edd said:


> I'd like to suggest we put the blame squarely on Wa-Loaf for starting the thread. YEAH, who's with me??!



Ha, I figured it would have locked down by now.


----------



## snowmonster (Aug 9, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> And people think I'm the resident troll. This one got away quickly. Again the law is just against the in your face pride aspect. This is not a big deal.



Just because you have a contrary point of view on some of the issues here does not make you a troll. You're alright.



wa-loaf said:


> Ha, I figured it would have locked down by now.



Russia passed a law making it illegal to close down any thread that you started. :smile:


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Russia passed a law making it illegal to close down any thread that you started. :smile:



That is Wicked Gay!


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 9, 2013)

Puck it said:


> That is Wicked Gay!



6842069+420+69


----------



## Puck it (Aug 9, 2013)

Scotty said:


> 6842069+420+69




That's not Jenny's number!!!!!!


----------



## Nick (Aug 10, 2013)

Wow I missed some fun, apparently!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## bobbutts (Aug 10, 2013)

Attempting to take this in another direction:


> U.S. figure skater Johnny Weir, who is married to a Russian-American man, says the flamboyant nature of his sport means that he can make a stance in Sochi.
> "I'm quite well known in Russia so my sheer presence is a big statement against this anti-propaganda law," he told CNN.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 10, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> Attempting to take this in another direction:



I hope Johnny realizes he's in Russia...he might wind up skating in Siberia. 

The Russians haven't learned yet that taking a stand like this usually increases the attention given to it a hundred fold. Do they have PR firms in Russia?


----------



## marcski (Aug 10, 2013)

JimG. said:


> I hope Johnny realizes he's in Russia...he might wind up skating in Siberia.
> 
> The Russians haven't learned yet that taking a stand like this usually increases the attention given to it a hundred fold. Do they have PR firms in Russia?



Do you really think they'd do anything during the Olympics to an athlete with the world's media spotlight on them?  I don't...no matter what anti-gay law they have on the books.


----------



## Smellytele (Aug 10, 2013)

marcski said:


> Do you really think they'd do anything during the Olympics to an athlete with the world's media spotlight on them?  I don't...no matter what anti-gay law they have on the books.



I was trying to stay out of this mess but I think it is more directed to non athletes who may be attending the Olympics.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 11, 2013)

marcski said:


> Do you really think they'd do anything during the Olympics to an athlete with the world's media spotlight on them?  I don't...no matter what anti-gay law they have on the books.


20 lashes with a wet noodle.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 11, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> I was trying to stay out of this mess but I think it is more directed to non athletes who may be attending the Olympics.



Clearly true...I just thought it was odd that a skater would think his mere presence makes a statement when he doesn't live there.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 13, 2013)

http://townhall.com/columnists/patb...tin--whose-side-are-you-on-n1662568/page/full


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 13, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> http://townhall.com/columnists/patb...tin--whose-side-are-you-on-n1662568/page/full



Your sex life must suck.


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 13, 2013)

Wow an August is only half way over, come on winter we need happy people ,gay, straight goes everything who cares enjoy life, it be to late because it is to short.


----------



## Edd (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm having a crisis.  I want to follow about 3 different lines of argument but I don't want to commit....hmm...


----------



## BenedictGomez (Aug 13, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> You're right. Because torturing them first before killing them is different.
> 
> http://americablog.com/2013/08/young-gay-teen-tortured-by-russian-vigilantes-reportedly-dies.html



I'm a history buff and have an interest in the subject.  All I was doing was pointing out why you were chronologically wrong re: WWII.

Also, I dont know anything about the story you linked above - I dont generally take "blogs" to be legitimate news sources, at least not when I know nothing about them, and I'm unfamiliar with this one.  That said, it should probably be pointed out to you (and the blogger) that Ukraine is not "in" Russia, nor is it a part of Russia.  Ukraine is a separate country, and has been for > 20 years or so.  




bousquet19 said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyd-z...from-their-own-winter-olympics_b_3720026.html
> 
> *How about this author's suggestion?* Ban Russia from their own Olympics.  It's an action the IOC, which chose Sochi in the first place, can take.



Ridiculous is the first adjective that comes to mind.



Puck it said:


> And you can go back watching MSNBC and comrade Matthews!!!!!:uzi:



Take a moment and Google search "cable news" and "ratings", and you'll find that virtually nobody watches MSNBC.  I think the average person would be shocked if they realized how poor that network's ratings are.  Some nights they dont even average 500,000 viewers (dead serious).


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 13, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> Your sex life must suck.



Happily married for 27 years.

How about you?


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 13, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Happily married for 27 years.



So you are having no sex. :lol:



steamboat1 said:


> How about you?



Lost my wife to cancer 5 years ago. But I have a great girlfriend.

If you are going to start bringing religion into it you shouldn't be having/performing any oral sex and I really hope you waited until you got married ... and birth control that's bad too.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 13, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> Lost my wife to cancer 5 years ago.



Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Puck it (Aug 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Take a moment and Google search "cable news" and "ratings", and you'll find that virtually nobody watches MSNBC. I think the average person would be shocked if they realized how poor that network's ratings are. Some nights they dont even average 500,000 viewers (dead serious).



I heard those stats last week also. Like less than 0.5% audience. Th other stat was that Fox and CNN was about 50:50 for opinion to actual news. MSNBC was over 75% opinion to news. It might even be higher.

I also heard that Putin is going to allow Obama masks at all the events!!!!!


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 14, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I heard those stats last week also. Like less than 0.5% audience. Th other stat was that Fox and CNN was about 50:50 for opinion to actual news. MSNBC was over 75% opinion to news. It might even be higher.
> 
> I also heard that Putin is going to allow Obama masks at all the events!!!!!



MSNBC does not say what they do is News, Fox and CNN both are paid by donations to political parties, so you have to take that for what it is, Fox is entertaining more then MSNBC and I am a liberal but I listen to ABC AM in the morning from 10 am to 12 pm because I find that show entertainment more then liberal radio, but I don't agree with most of the shows talking points.


----------



## darent (Aug 17, 2013)

maybe Russia will boycott their own Olympics to protest American troops in Afganistan!!


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2013)

Gays in Egypt are better off than Christians


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Gays in Egypt are better off than Christians



your point?


----------



## Edd (Aug 18, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Gays in Egypt are better off than Christians


----------



## Smellytele (Aug 18, 2013)

mmm....:-o:-o:-o

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp...edal-stand-world-championships-132337366.html


----------



## Abubob (Aug 18, 2013)

It's the oldest conflict known to man. The Secular vs. Religion. Shouldn't be surprising how Gay rights are smack in the middle of things. Goes all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## JimG. (Aug 18, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> mmm....:-o:-o:-o
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp...edal-stand-world-championships-132337366.html



Awesome!


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 24, 2013)

So, if telling gays and lesbians to STFU wasn't enough, now Putin is telling everyone to STFU.......

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t3

IOC should pull the plug........Russia doesn't deserve to host the games and the financial reward it may bring. Sucks for the athletes training for the event no doubt, but between all of the BS from Russia and the threats from Chechen rebels, enough is enough.


----------



## bigbog (Aug 24, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> .....IOC should pull the plug........Russia doesn't deserve to host the games and the financial reward it may bring. Sucks for the athletes training for the event no doubt, but between all of the BS from Russia and the threats from Chechen rebels, enough is enough.



....Too inteligent an idea coming from the crowd in power...and the money-laden upperclass mgmnt of sports are, most likely, too aware of the legal implications for terminating contracts(construction, planning, security...etc).


----------



## dmc (Aug 25, 2013)

Putin is a great example of what could happen here if conservatives have a chance to roll over us with their social re-engineering...

This whole Russia thing makes me sick...


----------



## drjeff (Aug 25, 2013)

dmc said:


> Putin is a great example of what could happen here if conservatives have a chance to roll over us with their social re-engineering...
> 
> This whole Russia thing makes me sick...



Oh Please!  Cut that crap DMC!

The majority of what the actual conservative movement wants (not the hyperbole that the MSM left says the conservative movement wants) is for people in this country to have more overall freedom and less government supervision.  Are their some SOCIAL issues where the conservative movement wants to keep things with the current status quo vs. open things up? Sure

Personally things like 3rd trimester abortions, I have absolutely no issue with banning them since at that point with modern medicine, you have a child that has a very good chance of growing up and becoming a productive citizen rather than never having a chance at life.

Immigration, hey, lets actually enforce the laws we have first, rather than open up the "floodgates" and bring in millions and millions of more people to compete for the already anemic job market in many places and also likely further add to the debt load that over social welfare programs are under.  Afterall, don't we have the duty to take care of OUR citizens first before the rest of the worlds?

Taxes - It's pretty simple from the conservative side of things. Most people will do better making a decision of how to spend MORE of the money that they earned than have the government take more of it from them and decide how to spend it for them

The NSA - how's that working out for the Left now??

Syria/Egypt/Iraq/Afhganistan - I thought that the left was supposed to be anti-war? Where are all those folks protesting about the wars when Bush was in the Whitehouse?  I'd call that hypocritical

The Debt - I though Obama was going to cut it in half, as we pass almost 17 trillion now up from about 9 when Obama took office, and mysteriously since Jack Lew took over at Treasury, the US debt hasn't increased in over 100 days when the monthly debt reports keep showing an increase of 80 to 100 BILLION

As for social re-engineering - are you really trying to make the claim that the current administration isn't trying to do the same thing with its energy policies, its housing policies, it's healthcare policies, etc, etc??

Please try and remove the emotion from the topic and look at the FACTS and only the facts.  Since i'm guessing that in your business world, as much as you may hope that a bunch of code will do exactly as you want it to, and have told your boss/client that it will, unless the facts so that the code is correct, you can hope all you want, but it won't work


----------



## dmc (Aug 25, 2013)

whatever... there's still a ton of "conservatives" pushing social re-engineering..    
i can understand all the economic stuff you talk about but this I can't...  sorry...  I'm not down with the conservative social agenda...

Left unchecked - it could turn out like whats happening in Russia right now..

Nice rant though... Very nice...  not what I usually expect from AZ...


----------



## dmc (Aug 25, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Since i'm guessing that in your business world, as much as you may hope that a bunch of code will do exactly as you want it to, and have told your boss/client that it will, unless the facts so that the code is correct, you can hope all you want, but it won't work



My boss and I both support gay marriage..  Our client's project manager is actually a gay man...  I think we got it covered...


----------



## JimG. (Aug 25, 2013)

We need a good Killington thread.


----------



## ScottySkis (Aug 25, 2013)

JimG. said:


> We need a good Killington thread.



Snowmaking the Beast us Back part #2


----------



## Edd (Aug 25, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Oh Please!  Cut that crap DMC!
> 
> The majority of what the actual conservative movement wants (not the hyperbole that the MSM left says the conservative movement wants) is for people in this country to have more overall freedom and less government supervision.  Are their some SOCIAL issues where the conservative movement wants to keep things with the current status quo vs. open things up? Sure
> 
> ...



Happy now Wa-loaf?  You broke drjeff with your poisonous thread. Nice.


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## bobbutts (Aug 25, 2013)

In theory the gop is conservative, but that's about it.  In practice they're hypocritical cronies for the advancement of regressive and destructive legislation against the majority of the citizens.  I get a kick out of people criticizing the election of Obama, when that suggests that Romney was a superior choice.  I've become much less interested in the stated goals of a politician since they appear to mean very little in most cases and more interested in how trustworthy they are.  Obama has been a major failure in this regard too.  It's depressing.  Partisan hacks like Dr. Jeff and his leftist equivalents only make it worse.  If you want to be a critic, be a critic.  If you want to be a blind cheerleader, be that.  You can't be both and expect to have any credibility.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 25, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> *IOC should pull the plug........Russia doesn't deserve to host the games *and the financial reward it may bring.




Did you say the exact same thing over the very recent China games?

*If so -->* then at least you're being consistent with your opinion on humanitarian beliefs re: Olympic games.

*If not -->* then you're exasperation is completely absurd given the substantial humanitarian discrepancy re: China + Russia


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 25, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Oh Please!  Cut that crap DMC!
> 
> *The majority of what the actual conservative movement wants (not the hyperbole that the MSM left says the conservative movement wants) is for people in this country to have more overall freedom and less government* supervision.



Obviously, but that's not what _The Huffington Post_ says so how would they know that?




drjeff said:


> *Are their some SOCIAL issues where the conservative movement wants to keep things with the current status quo vs. open things up? Sure*



Correct again.  

Frankly, how anyone doesn't realize that BOTH liberals and conservatives have aspects that relate to social issues as they each see fit it completely beyond me = total lack of self-awareness on one's part.  Furthermore, in terms of the bulk of social issues, it's usually liberals that want change and conservatives that want stasis.

But in terms of _"Social engineering" _since that is the precise term that was used, to somehow believe conservatives are worse than liberals in that respect is truly beyond me.   What does the far-left agenda really have beyond "social engineering" and its' accompanying "Identity Politics" to break people up into neat little buckets?  I mean, the entire DNC freaking platform from soup to nuts practically revolves around social engineering, picking winners and losers in society, and using tax policy and increased government control to redistribute wealth to "correct" what it perceives as "inequality" through tax code and regulation (ironically, all in the name of "fairness").   It's all about social change for God's sake!


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## ScottySkis (Aug 25, 2013)

Summer almost over, winter will be here soon.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 26, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Did you say the exact same thing over the very recent China games?
> 
> *If so -->* then at least you're being consistent with your opinion on humanitarian beliefs re: Olympic games.
> 
> *If not -->* then you're exasperation is completely absurd given the substantial humanitarian discrepancy re: China + Russia



Yes, I had reservations about China hosting the games with their poor human rights record; especially the situation in Tibet.

I maybe wasn't as vocal about the Beijing Olympics as I am Sochi because Hu Jintao wasn't exactly being a blowhard like Putin politicizing the Games.  There wasn't the same international broadcast of, "Play by our rules or else," as Putin is now doing.  Throw in Putin's support of the Assad regime still, even after the Syrian government used chemical warfare on it's own children and well, that's where my "completely absurd exasperation" :roll: comes from.


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## dmc (Aug 26, 2013)

Keep the Olympics in Russia... Let's prove to the world we are better than all this anti-gay stuff...
Putin's a jerk...  He needs to go away...


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## wa-loaf (Aug 26, 2013)

Edd said:


> Happy now Wa-loaf?  You broke drjeff with your poisonous thread. Nice.



My work here is complete.


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## Puck it (Aug 26, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Oh Please! Cut that crap DMC!
> 
> The majority of what the actual conservative movement wants (not the hyperbole that the MSM left says the conservative movement wants) is for people in this country to have more overall freedom and less government supervision. Are their some SOCIAL issues where the conservative movement wants to keep things with the current status quo vs. open things up? Sure
> 
> ...



Very well said!


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## dmc (Aug 26, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> My work here is complete.



Well played sir... Well played... haha..


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## dmc (Aug 26, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> In theory the gop is conservative, but that's about it.



I was careful NOT to say Republican..    
I have many many friends that are members and don't subscribe to the social agenda of the far right....


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## Puck it (Aug 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> I was careful NOT to say Republican..
> I have many many friends that are members and don't subscribe to the social agenda of the far right....




Thank you, FRIEND!!!!!!!!


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## wa-loaf (Aug 26, 2013)

dmc said:


> Well played sir... Well played... haha..



Actually I didn't really want to turn this into a right vs left debate. Though people who still hate gays mystify me.

I think this is far from over as momentum seems to be building along with defiant statements from Russia. Though I think everyone has too much invested in the Olympics to cancel or boycott them.

I call BS on the when in Rome folks ... when has the US ever not tried to push other countries around to our desires/beliefs? It's just that Russia is too big a kid for us to twist their arm on this.


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