# Video of Air france A380 clipping Comair



## SkiDork (Apr 12, 2011)

I can't believe they actually got this video.  Awesome.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/11/new.york.plane.incident/index.html?iref=NS1#


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## thetrailboss (Apr 12, 2011)

Looks like something from a movie.  Crazy.


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## ChileMass (Apr 12, 2011)

Good thing I took US Air down here to NYC yesterday instead of the Delta shuttle.  The A380 spun it around like a top.  I ride that plane all the time.....


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## thetrailboss (Apr 12, 2011)

Now we know why it is called "Air Chance."  :lol:


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## bigbog (Apr 12, 2011)

I think the bigger plane wasn't the sole guilty party. 
Air-France plane was on the right-of-way avenue...what is the smaller plane doing crowding?....much like a car @stop-sign, sticking out 10' into a 40mph highway.  Those big things don't stop on a dime.  They're the plane that had the right-of-way.  They should've been told to ride the righthand side by tower.  Not using that airport's runways on a regular basis...tower should've told taxiing planes to back off before entering...imho.
Really, because of lack of size design it should've been the tower's call, knowing that the Air-France's dimensions was never imagined at time of runway layout.
One out-of-control ego = potential for disaster....


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## 4aprice (Apr 12, 2011)

That was a little more significant then the news reports made it out to be.  While the damage looked small I bet the people inside the smaller plane were not happy:-o.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## wa-loaf (Apr 12, 2011)

That's why you don't undo your seatbelt until the plane is at the gate ...


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## Angus (Apr 12, 2011)

the A380's are enormous. I saw a couple two years ago they were at LAX for FAA testing and they were parked next to 747s - much bigger - they don't taper in the back like the 747. I was talking to the pilot of my flight and he was slightly awed.


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## dmc (Apr 12, 2011)

Our gate was near one when i was in Dubai - they had to build a special gangway because it's dual leveled..  And that's how they do stuff in Dubai... 

I was in a 777 I think and it was dwarfed in height...


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## SkiDork (Apr 12, 2011)

I know its big, but I still prefer the 74.  It has more character.  The 380 is too squarish looking somehow...


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## mondeo (Apr 12, 2011)

dmc said:


> Our gate was near one when i was in Dubai - they had to build a special gangway because it's dual leveled.. And that's how they do stuff in Dubai...
> 
> I was in a 777 I think and it was dwarfed in height...


The upper gangway is to cut turnaround time, shaves 22 minutes. Not as big a deal on long haul flights, but you get a couple A380s a day and that's an extra gate opening for a single aisle.



SkiDork said:


> I know its big, but I still prefer the 74. It has more character. The 380 is too squarish looking somehow...


It's because it is square. Has to fit in a 80mx80m box for ground operations, the length of the A380-800 is 74m - about the same as a 747. If they ever build a -900, it will be 79m, same as the wingspan. Fuselage height/length on the 380 is about 8.7, on the A320 it's 10.2. Notable visual difference.

Not that big a fan of it myself. Other than the size, there's nothing really special about it. Just a typical new aircraft. No real gamechanging design aspects. I do find the wings on the ground to be very aesthetic, though.


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## ERJ-145CA (Apr 12, 2011)

bigbog said:


> I think the bigger plane wasn't the sole guilty party.
> Air-France plane was on the right-of-way avenue...what is the smaller plane doing crowding?....much like a car @stop-sign, sticking out 10' into a 40mph highway.  Those big things don't stop on a dime.  They're the plane that had the right-of-way.  They should've been told to ride the righthand side by tower.  Not using that airport's runways on a regular basis...tower should've told taxiing planes to back off before entering...imho.
> Really, because of lack of size design it should've been the tower's call, knowing that the Air-France's dimensions was never imagined at time of runway layout.
> One out-of-control ego = potential for disaster....



Actually AF did not have the right of way, the small jet was stopped waiting to be marshalled into the gate.  When I'm taxiing and I see a plane stopped and waiting for a gate I will stop unless I'm sure that my wingtip will clear the other aircraft.  Also it looks like AF was taxiing too fast that close to the terminal.  You taxi at a speed that you will be able to stop if anything obstructs your taxi.


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## ERJ-145CA (Apr 12, 2011)

mondeo said:


> The upper gangway is to cut turnaround time, shaves 22 minutes. Not as big a deal on long haul flights, but you get a couple A380s a day and that's an extra gate opening for a single aisle.
> 
> 
> It's because it is square. Has to fit in a 80mx80m box for ground operations, the length of the A380-800 is 74m - about the same as a 747. If they ever build a -900, it will be 79m, same as the wingspan. Fuselage height/length on the 380 is about 8.7, on the A320 it's 10.2. Notable visual difference.
> ...



I'm looking forward to seeing the 747-800 myself.


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## bvibert (Apr 12, 2011)

ERJ-145CA said:


> Actually AF did not have the right of way, the small jet was stopped waiting to be marshalled into the gate.  When I'm taxiing and I see a plane stopped and waiting for a gate I will stop unless I'm sure that my wingtip will clear the other aircraft.  Also it looks like AF was taxiing too fast that close to the terminal.  You taxi at a speed that you will be able to stop if anything obstructs your taxi.



I flew on a couple ERJ-145's last week...  Didn't realize what your name meant until now.. :dunce:


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## SkiDork (Apr 13, 2011)

do we know exactly where this took place?


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## dmc (Apr 13, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> I know its big, but I still prefer the 74.  It has more character.  The 380 is too squarish looking somehow...



But they are Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiimp on the inside...


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## SkiDork (Apr 13, 2011)

dmc said:


> But they are Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiimp on the inside...



I bet.  I've never had the privilege of going  upstairs on a 74.  Probably never even ride in a 380


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## dmc (Apr 13, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> I bet.  I've never had the privilege of going  upstairs on a 74.  Probably never even ride in a 380



I rode in the upper deck of a 747 from Tokyo to Taipei.  It was coach but there was a ton of room!  Nice bin to stash my stuff by the windows...  2 flight attendants for maybe 20 people...

My buddy takes the 380s to Dubai all the time now... Loves them - business class is PIMP!!
Even coach is nice..  Emirates does a great job - one of my favorites..  

My flight on Emirates on a 777 was one of the nicest long hauls i ever did..  Ambian helped...  haha..


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## SkiDork (Apr 13, 2011)

dmc said:


> I rode in the upper deck of a 747 from Tokyo to Taipei.  It was coach but there was a ton of room!  Nice bin to stash my stuff by the windows...  2 flight attendants for maybe 20 people...
> 
> My buddy takes the 380s to Dubai all the time now... Loves them - business class is PIMP!!
> Even coach is nice..  Emirates does a great job - one of my favorites..
> ...




Probably the nicest flight I ever took was JFK to Frankfurt on Lufthansa (to pick up Ally from Russia).  Alitalia was also nice.  American carriers just don't do it as nice as foreign ones.  I hear Pac basin are the best.


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## dmc (Apr 13, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Probably the nicest flight I ever took was JFK to Frankfurt on Lufthansa (to pick up Ally from Russia).  Alitalia was also nice.  American carriers just don't do it as nice as foreign ones.  I hear Pac basin are the best.



Lufthansa is nice..  Had to fly them when i was doing business with them.. 

I also love Singapore Air - i flew that to Germany a bunch....

Japan Air is nice too..  Spilled wine on my jeans and they dry cleaned them on the plane somehow..  pretty impressed with that...

Also loved Kingfisher when i was in India..  Cause they serve awesome Indian food and the flight attendants are smoking hot young girls..  Apparently thats in India it's OK to advertise for flight attendants to be young and hot in India...  haha...  try that here...


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## RootDKJ (Apr 13, 2011)

mondeo said:


> The upper gangway is to cut turnaround time, shaves 22 minutes. Not as big a deal on long haul flights, but you get a couple A380s a day and that's an extra gate opening for a single aisle.
> 
> 
> It's because it is square. Has to fit in a 80mx80m box for ground operations, the length of the A380-800 is 74m - about the same as a 747. If they ever build a -900, it will be 79m, same as the wingspan. Fuselage height/length on the 380 is about 8.7, on the A320 it's 10.2. Notable visual difference.
> ...


It kinda looks like an egg with wings.


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## dmc (Apr 13, 2011)

Timelapse out window flight from SFO to CDG(Paris)


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## SkiDork (Apr 13, 2011)

The view of the nose looks very much like a Super Guppy


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## bigbog (Apr 13, 2011)

ERJ-145CA said:


> Actually AF did not have the right of way, the small jet was stopped waiting to be marshalled into the gate.  When I'm taxiing and I see a plane stopped and waiting for a gate I will stop unless I'm sure that my wingtip will clear the other aircraft.  Also it looks like AF was taxiing too fast that close to the terminal.  You taxi at a speed that you will be able to stop if anything obstructs your taxi.



You're talking theoretically correctness ERJ.  Operating by 100% theoretical correctness without yielding or _talking_(which is what happened...it sounds like by tower-speak) is what ends up in very-near misses.  Think the tower was really asleep..imho.  Whenever taxing out...and being the lesser sized, eyeing the situation(if possible) should be routine...but with the visual...seems like it was clearly a case of the tower not even watching the scene till something happened = scary.  Can see your viewpoint, having flown decades ago! = less traffic...I NEVER had that as a job = much too young= not in the commercial airport scene!!! ...but with visibility like that...protocol played 100% often doesn't cut it..(im_$.01), in flying..as in driving.
Just don't see how the crew could see their outer wing clearances, especially with what footage showed visual as being....fwiw.  With amount of traffic....that _has to_ be help from the tower...just in verifying type of plane approaching.  If they couldn't have seen the possibility of that in advance....


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## Nick (Apr 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> I bet.  I've never had the privilege of going  upstairs on a 74.  Probably never even ride in a 380



I did once as a kid on the way to Germany. we weren't staying up there... but when I was like 7 or 8 they used to let kids into the cockpits to meet the pilots etc., so I walked through the section. Pretty awesome. 

I used to love going to the cockpit and meeting the pilot as a kid. Never happening again .


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## SkiDork (Apr 14, 2011)

Nick said:


> I did once as a kid on the way to Germany. we weren't staying up there... but when I was like 7 or 8 they used to let kids into the cockpits to meet the pilots etc., so I walked through the section. Pretty awesome.
> 
> I used to love going to the cockpit and meeting the pilot as a kid. Never happening again .




yeah those were the days.  Passengers were allowed to just walk up into the cockpit (in flight) and mingle with the flight crew.  Amazing stuff.


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## mondeo (Apr 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> yeah those were the days. Passengers were allowed to just walk up into the cockpit (in flight) and mingle with the flight crew. Amazing stuff.


Do you ever just hang around at the gymnasium?


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## SkiDork (Apr 14, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Do you ever just hang around at the gymnasium?



not sure I get the connection...   I'm slow sometimes....


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## mondeo (Apr 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> not sure I get the connection... I'm slow sometimes....


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## SkiDork (Apr 14, 2011)

mondeo said:


>



DUH!!!!

Good one!


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## ERJ-145CA (Apr 14, 2011)

mondeo said:


>



Do you like gladiator movies?


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## hammer (Apr 14, 2011)

How does the wingspan of an A380 compare with other aircraft like the B747?

My take on this whole incident is that


it's ultimately the A380 pilot's fault
the ground controller at JFK has to share in the blame
there will be some change in procedures to help prevent this from happening again


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## SkiDork (Apr 14, 2011)

A380 is 37 feet wider


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## SkiDork (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's an interesting question:  Who will be the 1st US carrier to purchase the A380?


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## 2knees (Apr 14, 2011)

ERJ-145CA said:


> Do you like gladiator movies?



Billy, have you ever been to a turkish bath?

Do you like it when your dog rubs up against your leg?


on a somewhat related note, the head of the FAA operations has stepped down due to all the issues lately.


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## mondeo (Apr 14, 2011)

hammer said:


> How does the wingspan of an A380 compare with other aircraft like the B747?
> 
> My take on this whole incident is that
> 
> ...


80m vs 64m for 747. 64m is the same as the 777, about the same as A340. And it would be a longer wingspan if it weren't for ground maneuvering. The aspect ratio of the wing (equal to span squared over area) is a key aerodynamic feature, and is only 7.5 on the A380, the same as the 747-400. Other modern airliners are up significantly from this, the A350 at 9.5 and the 787 at a whopping 11. Any lower than 7.5 and the plane starts to be a pig aerodynamically.


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## hammer (Apr 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> A380 is 37 feet wider


I wonder if there are any special ground procedures in place for the aircraft.  I do know that a new weight category was created for it...


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## mondeo (Apr 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Here's an interesting question: Who will be the 1st US carrier to purchase the A380?


FedEx was. But then they cancelled it.

USAir may be, but it'll be a while. Everyone else is a Boeing-only customer under a 15 year old gentleman's agreement.


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## SkiDork (Apr 14, 2011)

mondeo said:


> FedEx was. But then they cancelled it.
> 
> USAir may be, but it'll be a while. Everyone else is a Boeing-only customer under a 15 year old gentleman's agreement.



when does that expire?  You know American/Delta etc. are itching to add that to their inventory


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## mondeo (Apr 14, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> when does that expire? You know American/Delta etc. are itching to add that to their inventory


Nah, the 747-8I is almost as good and their pressing need is single aisle renewal. Delta's still operating a significant number of DC-9s and MD-80s, American has a ton of MD-80. Those things are pigs, and the bulk of their flights.

Forgot United is an Airbus customer, but they've been less active in terms of fleet renewal. Plus they have a pretty good number of fairly large aircaft, and will have to deal with merging with Continental for a couple more years before making any waves. With the US carriers it's more about range and frequency than bulk. San Francisco to Sydney or Beijing, and multiple daily flights to London and Paris from NYC and LAX. That sort of thing. Lufthansa, on the other hand, has 6 A380s in service and 20 747-8Is on order.


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