# Ethical Dilema...What would you do????



## drjeff (May 4, 2008)

Okay, here's the scenario that happened to me twice this past saturday and I didn't even realize it until Sunday when I looked at the receipts!

Saturday afternoon I take the kids out for some Mother's Day shopping and to get their growing feet some new boots for hiking season.  Things were a bit busy in the stores,  and relatively speaking the kids were about as good and cooperative as an almost 2 1/2 year old and a 4 1/2 year old can be while out shopping with them close to nap time   I was buying multiple things at each store that we went to and will readily admit that I was paying more attention to keeping my kids in sight than the credit card receipts I was signing.

Sunday AM, I'm going over the receipts, and it turns out that at both REI where I bought 2 pairs of kids hiking boots and 3 pairs of kids hiking socks that they didn't charge me for 2 pairs of the hiking socks (and I know that the guy at the register saw them and placed them into the bag) and then at Golfer's warehouse where I bought a golf shirt and some golf balls for my mother, the girls at the register didn't charge me for the shirt, even though once again she placed it in the bag!

I feel guilty even though it was their error at both stores, and frankly had my kids not been there I would have been paying attention to the credit card receipts and pointed their errors out to them.

What would you do??


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## wa-loaf (May 4, 2008)

At least if you go back to REI you'll get some of that back via your dividend. I'd go pay, but it'd be a tougher choice if it were a Walmart or something.


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## davidhowland14 (May 4, 2008)

i personally would keep them, but given this statement


> and frankly had my kids not been there I would have been paying attention to the credit card receipts and pointed their errors out to them.


you seem to want to return and pay.


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## snoseek (May 4, 2008)

Hell no keep it and consider that your lucky shirt socks whatever. If you noticed on the spot I'd say different but that is just their mistake. REI will get by just fine without you correcting their mistake. Small independant shop, restaurant, store.. would be different  but to me REI and WAL-MART are both the same kind of animal and I am willing to take any advantages over modern capatalism I can get.


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## andyzee (May 5, 2008)

Is this a trick question?


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## Hawkshot99 (May 5, 2008)

Getting stuff for free is one thing if you steal it, but you did not, so no worries.


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## mondeo (May 5, 2008)

I've struggled with the question too, but where I've come to is that it's the stores fault for not having the best employees. I shouldn't be the one training employees to make sure they scan everything, it's the management that should be. If the store does a good job at it, then there are relatively few occurrences, and it's not a big deal. The store sucks and it happens a lot, the store probably deserves to lose money. In general, it follows my theory of making companies pay for bad business practices.

Now, if it were a store I knew was run well, I liked, etc. I might make an exception, due to the fact that I'd figure it was one of the rare occurrences that the store didn't really deserve to pay for.


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## Dr Skimeister (May 5, 2008)

Have you ever performed a service in your practice that didn't get invoiced? If so, did the client come back and point out the error?


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## riverc0il (May 5, 2008)

This is an interesting quiz because it invites cognitive dissonance in which some folks may say that they would do the "right thing" hypothetically but in reality may "not get around to it" or "unintentionally forget about it" or something along those lines.

I think it would depend on the value of the item and perhaps my relationship with a given retailer to be honest. If it was a $3 water filter from Walmart as part of a bigger purchase, I would probably just shrug that one off as cashier error. If it was a significant purchase, I probably would seek out the retailer by telephone and ask them what they wanted me to do. For a pair of socks, it wouldn't be worth my while for their error.


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## andyzee (May 5, 2008)

mondeo said:


> I've struggled with the question too, but where I've come to is that it's the stores fault for not having the best employees. I shouldn't be the one training employees to make sure they scan everything, it's the management that should be. If the store does a good job at it, then there are relatively few occurrences, and it's not a big deal. The store sucks and it happens a lot, the store probably deserves to lose money. In general, it follows my theory of making companies pay for bad business practices.
> 
> Now, if it were a store I knew was run well, I liked, etc. I might make an exception, due to the fact that I'd figure it was one of the rare occurrences that the store didn't really deserve to pay for.


 
Agreed, these days stores days stores pay the minimum wage that they can, they get what they pay for. As a result they get employee apathy, the customer gets reduced service. I would look at it as a perk of the apathetic corporate world whose only concern is nickles and dimes.


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## ckofer (May 5, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Have you ever performed a service in your practice that didn't get invoiced? If so, did the client come back and point out the error?



I've had clients do it.

My answer: I would not make a special trip for it but I would take the kids for the return. The 2.5 yr old may not grasp it but the 4.5 yr old probably will. This can be a valuable ethics lesson for the kids.


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## drjeff (May 5, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Have you ever performed a service in your practice that didn't get invoiced? If so, did the client come back and point out the error?



Good point Doc!  I'm SURE though that my wonderfull front desk staff has NEVER EVER forgotton to bill for something   (Your's too I'm guessing)


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## drjeff (May 5, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> This is an interesting quiz because it invites cognitive dissonance in which some folks may say that they would do the "right thing" hypothetically but in reality may "not get around to it" or "unintentionally forget about it" or something along those lines.
> 
> I think it would depend on the value of the item and perhaps my relationship with a given retailer to be honest. If it was a $3 water filter from Walmart as part of a bigger purchase, I would probably just shrug that one off as cashier error. If it was a significant purchase, I probably would seek out the retailer by telephone and ask them what they wanted me to do. For a pair of socks, it wouldn't be worth my while for their error.



For reference sake,  the socks were $5.95 a pair and the shirt was $39.99, and I still paid REI almost $100 for the other items I bought, but my golfer's warehouse bill was just over $20 for the golf balls.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 5, 2008)

It depends..I've been given change back for a $20 even though I paid with a $10..if it's a little mom and pop store..I'm honest about it but if it's at Wal-mart or something I let it go..At an un-named ski area..I was given $10 too much cash back when I paid with a $100 and I just let it go..


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## Warp Daddy (May 5, 2008)

Do the  right thing if you believe honesty is the best policy and you want to give your kids a great example - BTW  U can AFFORD it Doc


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## drjeff (May 5, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> Do the  right thing if you believe honesty is the best policy and you want to give your kids a great example - *BTW  U can AFFORD it Doc    *



No according to my wife 

BTW, I'll post what I did/didn't do tommorrow afternoon. 

Also for reference sake with our current gas prices:uzi:,  the stores where I made the purchases are roughly a 45 minute drive each way from my house in an area where I hadn't been to shop since Christmas time.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 5, 2008)

drjeff said:


> No according to my wife
> 
> BTW, I'll post what I did/didn't do tommorrow afternoon.
> 
> Also for reference sake with our current gas prices:uzi:,  the stores where I made the purchases are roughly a 45 minute drive each way from my house in an area where I hadn't been to shop since Christmas time.



You can always mail them the money..:lol:


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## wa-loaf (May 5, 2008)

drjeff said:


> No according to my wife
> 
> BTW, I'll post what I did/didn't do tommorrow afternoon.
> 
> Also for reference sake with our current gas prices:uzi:,  the stores where I made the purchases are roughly a 45 minute drive each way from my house in an area where I hadn't been to shop since Christmas time.



You can just call them up and read the sku #'s to them and charge it over the phone.


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## deadheadskier (May 5, 2008)

hmmm, would depend on the value of the item and the time needed to rectify the situation.  The right thing to do ethically would obviously be to return to the store.  In the same regard, the right thing for the store to do would be to offer a discount on the items equivalent to the cost of your time and gas used in returning to the store.  The latter probably never happens. 

I've never had this come up except for when I notice it at the check out aisle in which case I always point out the cashiers error.  

This story reminds me of back when I was a little kid and would go grocery shopping with my mother and great grandfather.  He grew up in the depression and was very frugal because of it.  He'd bring a calculator with him and add up the receipt just to be sure the store wasn't taking more money from him than the items actually cost.


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## ctenidae (May 5, 2008)

There may be an entertainment benefit to trying to explain what you're doing. While they should have charged you for the socks and the shirt, I'm sure you'll find that dumb looks are, in fact, still free.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 5, 2008)

You weren't actively trying to pull a fast one and they made a mistake.  Innocent enough.  It's not your job as a customer to fix a store's problem.

How about just rewarding the stores with repeat visits (and not hoping for more of the same, of course)?


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## cbcbd (May 5, 2008)

Honest mistakes all around. For such small items I wouldn't sweat it, but if the sock drawer appears to be beating like the tell tale heart then just go back and make your conscience right.


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## Mildcat (May 5, 2008)

If I notice it at the checkout I'll say something even if it's a big store like Walmart because I don't want the cashier to get in trouble. I wouldn't go back if I noticed later because the cashier will get in trouble. The employees don't make enough money to have to carry the burden of every little mistake in my honest opinion.


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## Warp Daddy (May 5, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> You can just call them up and read the sku #'s to them and charge it over the phone.



like he said  and if the company has ANY customer relations at all my bet is you'll get a deal


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## David Metsky (May 5, 2008)

I would arrange (either by visit or by phone) to fix the mistake.  It's not for the store, but for yourself and to set an example for your kids.  You know what the right thing to do is; everything else is rationalizations.


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## BeanoNYC (May 5, 2008)

You'll probably get the cashiers in trouble.  If you feel guilty, give the items to charity and repurchase.


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## drjeff (May 5, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> You're suppose to pay attention at the register.



I was as much as possible, all the while trying to make sure that my two kids weren't messing up/taking things from the displays of small items that were next to the register at both stores - as a parent with young kids I realize why retailers insist upon placing small items at/near the register, but really dislike the fact that they do 




> Would it be an ethical dilema if you discovered in the parking lot that the cashier gave you too much change back?



Normally I'm very diligent about checking my receipts at the register or as soon as I get to my car, but because of the hour (very close to the kids naptime), I just signed the receipts and didn't even think about them until Sunday AM(18 hours later) when I went to wrap up the gifts for my mother, and as soon as I saw the lack of charge from Golfer's warehouse then I checked the remainder of my receipts and noticed the REI ommission too



> If it is a long trip or you got to go out of your way i would settle up the next time you was there..



As I posted in a previous post, the area where both stores is located is basically a 45 drive each way from my house and the last time I was in that area was just before Christmas for some x-mas shopping.


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## drjeff (May 5, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I was just thinking it was a good thing there no anti-theft device to sound an alarm at the door because it would have been a little difficult to explain an item in the bag that was not on the receipt..



Like I said, in BOTH stores the cashiers placed the items in the bag, and given that it's maybe a 15 second walk from the register to the front door, my guess is they probably would have remembered that THEY put the items in the shopping bag a few seconds before.


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## FRITOLAYGUY (May 5, 2008)

I keep it cashiers loss, remember theres also been plenty of times in your life while out at a store or a restaurant that you have been overcharged and never realized it on the receipt, it all works out eventually.


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## severine (May 5, 2008)

It's a difficult situation.  On the one hand, driving there and back makes it pretty inconvenient and costly to rectify an error that wasn't yours.

On the other hand, parents must set a good example for their children.  Whether you realize it or not, your children are learning from the things you do, not what you say.

Tough call..


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## noski (May 5, 2008)

The fact that it seems to be weighing on you tells me you need to go with your concience, which is to go back to the store. Then you can file it.


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## campgottagopee (May 5, 2008)

If I noticed at the time of sale I would've said something, If I had gotten home then noticed I would've just kept them and considered myself lucky.


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## ckofer (May 5, 2008)

This would probably not have happened if they had a strategically placed associate after the checkout reconciling your purchase and your receipt.


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## mondeo (May 5, 2008)

I'll back up what a few others have said, and add to my previous statement, that having kids involved sways it towards paying the stores for the inadvertently uncharged items. It's the kind of thing I could see my parents doing, and I turned out as someone who still feels guilty about stealing a pack of baseball cards in 3rd grade, and being 24 years old with a completely legal music and software collection.


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## riverc0il (May 5, 2008)

Mildcat said:


> If I notice it at the checkout I'll say something even if it's a big store like Walmart because I don't want the cashier to get in trouble. I wouldn't go back if I noticed later because the cashier will get in trouble. The employees don't make enough money to have to carry the burden of every little mistake in my honest opinion.


Really depends a lot on the manager regarding the "trouble" aspect of finding a big mistake. As a retail manager myself, I have caught issues in which cashier mistakes might have resulted in $100+ worth of merchandise walking from the store unaccounted for. Most associates are mortified enough just being alerted to their performance lapse. There is never a need to pursue corrective action for one or two such mistakes because the cashier naturally is usually self motivated to ensure the problem doesn't happen again. Same cashier making the same such mistake with frequency would be another story. But my management philosophy is people are self motivated not to screw up and almost always self correct when alerted to the problem. For the occasional error that does happen, reasonable shrink is expected and everyone makes mistakes. You just have to hope the mistakes are small ones and the big ones are caught. It is all about good training and development and a solid system of accountability.


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## wa-loaf (May 5, 2008)

severine said:


> It's a difficult situation.  Tough call..



Just give the shop a call, ask them what they suggest you do. You'll prob save a trip that way.


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## riverc0il (May 5, 2008)

Interesting look into ethics here. I am particularly fascinated by the issue of it being a higher ethical precedent to due it because of the kids but if there were no kids to impress an ethical lessons on many people would say cashiers error and keep the goods. Remove the kids from the situation and the ethical conclusion essentially is cashier error--do not return goods to store for purchase which means it is only being done because it is a convenient lesson for the kids. You have to wonder how the kids would appreciate the situation if they had known the motives.  (???)

Do we base our ethics on our own internal beliefs, the situation, or on value calls and judgments about other people and things? A lot of arguments are being made in this thread based on external issues rather than internal ethical values. Not saying there is anything wrong with that but just making an observation.


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## severine (May 5, 2008)

ckofer said:


> This would probably not have happened if they had a strategically placed associate after the checkout reconciling your purchase and your receipt.


:lol:  Do you really want to go there?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 5, 2008)

severine said:


> :lol:  Do you really want to go there?





AndyZee is going to get the ACLU on your ass...and the Costco receipt checkers..lol..


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## ckofer (May 5, 2008)




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## mondeo (May 5, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting look into ethics here. I am particularly fascinated by the issue of it being a higher ethical precedent to due it because of the kids but if there were no kids to impress an ethical lessons on many people would say cashiers error and keep the goods. Remove the kids from the situation and the ethical conclusion essentially is cashier error--do not return goods to store for purchase which means it is only being done because it is a convenient lesson for the kids. You have to wonder how the kids would appreciate the situation if they had known the motives.  (???)
> 
> Do we base our ethics on our own internal beliefs, the situation, or on value calls and judgments about other people and things? A lot of arguments are being made in this thread based on external issues rather than internal ethical values. Not saying there is anything wrong with that but just making an observation.



The reason I'd think he kids might complicate the issue is that there are nuances in the situation ethically; it's in that whole gray area. If the older one is 4 1/2, will he pick up on those nuances? Maybe, maybe not. Those of you that are parents would have a better idea, but for the sake of  argument, I'll say not. So you're back to a black and white example for the kids. At which point, which side do you want to err on? Again, you learn a lot being a parent (so I understand,) so maybe I should just stay out of this one.


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## bill2ski (May 5, 2008)

This is neither, an ethical or financial dilemma.
If you had not noticed, you would be otherwise unaffected.
Ignorance is Bliss
There is no argument that compels you to act in any other manor.
Assume, if you will, for the benefit of your conscience, the store gave you free samples. Feel a liberty to write a product review and E-mail it to the retailer. Don't forget to thank them for the great customer service. They will probably send you a coupon for a 30 % discount on your next purchase.


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## David Metsky (May 5, 2008)

bill2ski said:


> There is no argument that compels you to act in any other manor.


Sure there is.  It's called doing the right thing.  It's what you would want others to do if the situation was reversed.


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## Dr Skimeister (May 6, 2008)

Perhaps look at it like this....
If you had gotten home and upon examining the receipts you realized you had been charged twice for the socks and the golf shirt, would you shlep the 45 min each way to claim reimbursement for the charges?


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## drjeff (May 6, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Perhaps look at it like this....
> If you had gotten home and upon examining the receipts you realized you had been charged twice for the socks and the golf shirt, would you shlep the 45 min each way to claim reimbursement for the charges?



All this factored into what I did or didn't do(and Sunday PM for that matter),  I'll keep this ethics debate going until later this afternoon before I post as Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story"


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## drjeff (May 7, 2008)

Oops, just realized I forgot to post what I did last night, things got a little busy last yesterday afternoon.

Anyway, here's what I did.  Since I was seeing my mother last Sunday,  but won't be seeing her this Sunday for Mother's Day since she'll be back in Florida,  I figured that I need to deal with her present, the golf shirt, before I gave it to her.

What I did was I call up both stores last Sunday and asked to speak with the manager reguarding a billing issue.  I explained what I had found when I looked at my receipt, and the scenario at the checkout of both stores.  Both manager's told me that they appreciated my honesty and told me to keep the items free of charge, even though I offered to give them the SKU #'s of the socks and the shirt and my Mastercard #.  Nice customer service move on there part IMHO, and since I'm already a member of each places basically frequent buyer program,  I was going to be giving them more business in the future anyway.

I explained things to my 4 year old, who didn't quite grasp the entire concept,  since when my Mother opened her gift,  my daughter's words were "Nana, Daddy got you this shirt and didn't pay for it!"    Oh the things kid's say sometimes


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## Warp Daddy (May 7, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Oops, just realized I forgot to post what I did last night, things got a little busy last yesterday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## David Metsky (May 7, 2008)

Excellent resolution.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 7, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Oops, just realized I forgot to post what I did last night, things got a little busy last yesterday afternoon.
> 
> Anyway, here's what I did.  Since I was seeing my mother last Sunday,  but won't be seeing her this Sunday for Mother's Day since she'll be back in Florida,  I figured that I need to deal with her present, the golf shirt, before I gave it to her.
> 
> ...



Nice and a golf shirt as a mothers day gift..come on Dr.  you can do better than that..


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## severine (May 7, 2008)

I think you made the right choice.  Oftentimes you'll find you're even rewarded in ways you wouldn't have expected for doing the right thing.


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## andyzee (May 7, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> AndyZee is going to get the ACLU on your ass...and the Costco receipt checkers..lol..


 

That's it laugh away your liberties, see if I care.


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## drjeff (May 7, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Nice and a golf shirt as a mothers day gift..come on Dr.  you can do better than that..



Hey, there was also a dozen golf balls too   Seriously though my mother is the type of person that has just about everything she wants, and if she doesn't,  goes out and gets it herself, quickly.  The better present last Sunday for her was spending time with her grandkids..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 7, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Hey, there was also a dozen golf balls too   Seriously though my mother is the type of person that has just about everything she wants, and if she doesn't,  goes out and gets it herself, quickly.  The better present last Sunday for her was spending time with her grandkids..



I need to get my Mom a mothers day gift..On Saturday my Dad and me are taking my Mom and Grandma out for brunch..we're celebrating mothers day a day early to avoid the mob scenes..


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## Dr Skimeister (May 7, 2008)

New golf rule has to go into effect....

No mulligans if you're wearing a free golf shirt.


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## drjeff (May 7, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> New golf rule has to go into effect....
> 
> No mulligans if you're wearing a free golf shirt.



Does the world famous if you don't hit it past the ladies tee, you need to play the hole with your fly down still apply if you're wearing a free golf shirt????


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 7, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> New golf rule has to go into effect....
> 
> No mulligans if you're wearing a free golf shirt.



ahahahahaha...when I play with my Dad and his buddies..we always get a mulligan on the first hole(breakfast ball) and that's it..


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## severine (May 7, 2008)

It's like you guys are speaking gibberish.... :blink:


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## drjeff (May 7, 2008)

severine said:


> It's like you guys are speaking gibberish.... :blink:



It would be like if you hijacked a discussion and started talking about shoes or purses or some of those other things that you gals like to talk about that the vast majority of straight men really could care less about!  

Now go and finish gettting ready for A-Basin and those female intensive conversations you'll more than likely be involved in out there uke:


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## severine (May 7, 2008)

drjeff said:


> It would be like if you hijacked a discussion and started talking about shoes or purses or some of those other things that you gals like to talk about that the vast majority of straight men really could care less about!
> 
> Now go and finish gettting ready for A-Basin and those female intensive conversations you'll more than likely be involved in out there uke:


Bah!  Stereotypes!  I don't discuss shoes and purses!  

I'm just about ready for Abasin.  I'll be bringing the computer and should have internet access so I can update daily.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 7, 2008)

severine said:


> Bah!  Stereotypes!  I don't discuss shoes and purses!
> 
> I'm just about ready for Abasin.  I'll be bringing the computer and should have internet access so I can update daily.



When do you leave for A-basin??


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## severine (May 7, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> When do you leave for A-basin??


8AM Friday.  It can't come soon enough.

(Sorry for the hijack...)


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## Dr Skimeister (May 7, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Does the world famous if you don't hit it past the ladies tee, you need to play the hole with your fly down still apply if you're wearing a free golf shirt????



ahhh......the old "d*ick-out" rule....

Better check the USGA web-site for a ruling on that one.

Last season was the first in over 30 years that I didn't play golf. I burned out on the game to the point of it no longer being fun for me. Perhaps someday I'll revisit that addiction (pun intended).


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## drjeff (May 7, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> ahhh......the old "d*ick-out" rule....
> 
> Better check the USGA web-site for a ruling on that one.
> 
> Last season was the first in over 30 years that I didn't play golf. I burned out on the game to the point of it no longer being fun for me. Perhaps someday I'll revisit that addiction (pun intended).



Fortunately I've never had the di%k rule called on me,  I can't say the same for the rest of the 4-some that I usually play with though


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