# 1 x 11?



## BackLoafRiver (Aug 18, 2015)

Short story long, the lbs is offering a conversion from my 2 x 10 XT setup to a 1 x 11 XTR (new shifter, dérailleur, chain, front ring) for $450

The gearing is 32 up front, 42 rear. 

Thoughts? I'm wondering if I'm going to miss the granny gear. There are only a few places I use it. Wondering if the advantages are worth it. 


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## Puck it (Aug 18, 2015)

I would keep it.  The time that you need it you will want it. Just my opinion.


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## bvibert (Aug 19, 2015)

I went 1x10 this year and love it.  30T up front and 11-36T in the back on a 26" wheel bike, so that would be closer to 28T and 11-36 on a 27.5".  There's been very few times that I wished I had a lower gear.  A few times I wish I had a higher gear for street sections or whatever, but in the woods around here I haven't had much need.  Midway through last season I actually went 1x9, with a 32 up front and 11-32 in the back.  I managed just fine with that setup, though I'm not sure how well I would have done if my legs weren't already conditioned.  32x32 isn't exactly an ideal climbing gear, but I survived several longer rides, including 20+ miles.  My point is that you probably don't _need_ granny, it's a crutch that's nice to have.

32x42 will give you a slightly lower gearing than I have with 30x36.  You know the climbs we have around here and how they compare with what you normally ride.  If I had to do longer sustained climbs I might be wishing for a 2x10, or more likely I'd be looking at adding a 42T in the back.  I really hate front derailleurs, so I have no wish to go back to using one.

That said, I don't think I'd personally pay $450 to go Shimano 1x11.  You could get almost the same gearing by adding an extender 42T cog onto your existing 10 speed setup, for a lot cheaper.  As much as I'm a Shimano guy, I might feel differently if it were a SRAM 1x11 setup with the 10-42 cassette, at least then you get some extra range.


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## bvibert (Sep 1, 2015)

BackLoafRiver said:


> Short story long, the lbs is offering a conversion from my 2 x 10 XT setup to a 1 x 11 XTR (new shifter, dérailleur, chain, front ring) for $450
> 
> The gearing is 32 up front, 42 rear.
> 
> ...



What did you end up doing?


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 2, 2015)

Did a little "Frankenstein-ing" and made a cheaper version of the 1 x 11 with the help of the shop. 

Kept the xt arms and mounted to a narrow-wide wolf tooth 32. 

So far, I dig it. A lot. I'm looking to head up to KT once before it shuts down so I can see how it handles on longer climbs. 


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## bvibert (Sep 2, 2015)

BackLoafRiver said:


> Did a little "Frankenstein-ing" and made a cheaper version of the 1 x 11 with the help of the shop.
> 
> Kept the xt arms and mounted to a narrow-wide wolf tooth 32.
> 
> ...


Real extended climbs are my one concern with my 1x10 setup. Don't really have any around here, but I want to make it up to KT sometime soon.


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 2, 2015)

bvibert said:


> Real extended climbs are my one concern with my 1x10 setup. Don't really have any around here, but I want to make it up to KT sometime soon.



I'm hoping to go in the next two weeks. Honestly, the only real "climb" is the darling hill road slug to the trailhead and then the trail "coronary". Aside from that, I don't remember using my granny gear at all. 


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## bvibert (Sep 3, 2015)

BackLoafRiver said:


> I'm hoping to go in the next two weeks. Honestly, the only real "climb" is the darling hill road slug to the trailhead and then the trail "coronary". Aside from that, I don't remember using my granny gear at all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Having never been I was imagining more sustained climbs.  Good to know.

What do you have for a cassette in the back?


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 3, 2015)

bvibert said:


> Having never been I was imagining more sustained climbs.  Good to know.
> 
> What do you have for a cassette in the back?




11- 40

If the climbing is tough, I will swap it out for a 42 and put a 30 tooth in front. The Wolf's Tooth stuff is fairly inexpensive. I am sure I can find a Race Face as well somewhere.  The climbs at Sugarloaf will also be a good gauge for my gearing.

You should seriously go. The trick, I am sure, is negotiating the family stuff.


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## bvibert (Sep 3, 2015)

32x40 on 27.5" will give you about the same gear inches that I had with 30x36 on 26" wheels.  There isn't anything down here that I wasn't able to climb because of it, I am more of a masher than a spinner.  We have one climb that's close to a mile, but it has some mellow sections, and I was fine with that gearing.

30x42 should give you a plenty low gear, but you'll loose some top end.  I'm a little worried about gearing when I switch to 27.5, if I stick with 30T up front and 11-36T in the rear I'm going to lose some low end.  I don't want to go smaller than 30, so if it's a problem I'll probably add an 40 or 42 extender to the rear (or buy one of the Praxis 11-40 10 speed cassettes out on the market now).

Trust me, I want to go to KT bad!  I just haven't been able to make it happen.  Breaking my frame didn't help, and has put a damper on my riding in general..


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 3, 2015)

bvibert said:


> Trust me, I want to go to KT bad!  I just haven't been able to make it happen.  Breaking my frame didn't help, and has put a damper on my riding in general..



I'm sure. 

If you ever think you can spring free for a day let me know. I'd be happy to meet up. 


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## bvibert (Sep 3, 2015)

BackLoafRiver said:


> I'm sure.
> 
> If you ever think you can spring free for a day let me know. I'd be happy to meet up.
> 
> ...


For sure!


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 4, 2015)

For what it's worth, I need to stop reading bike review/ forum reviews. Every time I read a "X vs. Y" bike comparison I become "that guy" who starts questioning whether or not his bike is good enough.

There's something wrong with me.


I need to go ride. And drink beer.


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## bvibert (Sep 4, 2015)

BackLoafRiver said:


> For what it's worth, I need to stop reading bike review/ forum reviews. Every time I read a "X vs. Y" bike comparison I become "that guy" who starts questioning whether or not his bike is good enough.
> 
> There's something wrong with me.
> 
> ...



Same here.  On all counts!

:beer:


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## BackLoafRiver (Sep 11, 2015)

So, I currently have this box o' parts:

Shimano  XT Front and rear derailleur
Shimano XT Shifters
2 x cranks (no arms)
27.5 wheelset

Do I; 1) sell all this stuff, 2) scour for a hardtail frame and build up a bike. I've always wanted to do it but I know I could probably get a few hundred $$ for the parts

If I upgrade my fork, that would be one more piece to the build-up puzzle.

Thoughts?


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## bvibert (Sep 11, 2015)

BackLoafRiver said:


> So, I currently have this box o' parts:
> 
> Shimano  XT Front and rear derailleur
> Shimano XT Shifters
> ...


I'm a hoarder, so you probably don't want my advice! Lol! Seriously, if you want to build up a hard trail in the near future I'd keep them. If you're not likely to build one up anytime soon it's probably a good idea to sell them. 

Personally, I tend to keep everything.. Just in case..


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Oct 23, 2015)

Bump. I'm having serious doubts about the relevance of my front derailleur. I have a 2016 Stumpy 29'er, SRAM 2x10 (34-24 x 11-36). (The small front ring is normally 22 but I had the shop switch it for a 24 when they built the bike.)
I can do at least 95% of my riding in the 34 ring but I appreciate the utility of the super short (24-36) gear. 
I don't spin out if I just stay in the 24 ring. I don't think I've ever actually used the 11 or even 13 cassette cogs, other than messing around on a side street and thinking that those gears are pointlessly long. (What am I missing here anyway? Where do you use 34-11 on a mtn bike?  Maybe I should rename myself 'bikeslowr'!   )

I'm considering getting a 42 tooth extender cog and dropping the 11 (rather than combo the 15 & 17 into a 16) and matching with a 28 or 30 tooth front. (28-42 = 24-36). That's assuming my rear derailleur can handle the 42 and still shift well. (It's a medium length, which AFAIK is less promising than if it were long.)
Or if not the 42 then a 40 w/ 28 front ring which is also very close to 24-36 on the low range. 

Is there any reason not to try this?  It just seems like the drivetrain has a lot of unnecessary "stuff" right now.


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## bvibert (Oct 23, 2015)

skifastr said:


> Bump. I'm having serious doubts about the relevance of my front derailleur. I have a 2016 Stumpy 29'er, SRAM 2x10 (34-24 x 11-36). (The small front ring is normally 22 but I had the shop switch it for a 24 when they built the bike.)
> I can do at least 95% of my riding in the 34 ring but I appreciate the utility of the super short (24-36) gear.
> I don't spin out if I just stay in the 24 ring. I don't think I've ever actually used the 11 or even 13 cassette cogs, other than messing around on a side street and thinking that those gears are pointlessly long. (What am I missing here anyway? Where do you use 34-11 on a mtn bike?  Maybe I should rename myself 'bikeslowr'!   )
> 
> ...



In my experience, if you have the gears you will use them, but that doesn't necessarily need them.  As I mentioned above, 1x9 with 11-32 cassette and 32t chain ring worked just fine for me last year.  I was worried about starting the season without having something lower so I went to 1x10 with 11-36 rear and 30t up front.  This was all with a 26" wheeled bike, which will make the gearing a little lower than the same gearing on a 29er.  Sure there were times where I would have shifted into a lower gear if I had one, but that didn't stop me from making it up the climb (in most cases).  Mid-way through this season I broke the frame on the 26" and did a few rides on a borrowed 3x9 bike, yes I used the 22, but sparingly.  Then I got a 27.5" frame and built it up using the 1x10 drive train from the broken 26".  I was worried that I wouldn't do well with the change in gearing by going bigger on the wheels, so I _almost_ changed my whole setup around so that I could use a 28T up front, but I'm glad I didn't because I can't hardly tell the difference.  I run a 1x DH style crank with only the 104 bcd mounts and no granny gear bosses, so 30T is the smallest I can go.  I was also considering adding the extender cog I, but I'm not going bother right now.

I'm assuming you have SRAM shifters and derailleurs?  I'm not too up to date on those, but my understanding is that mid cage should work just fine.  The mid cage will have like a 38t capacity, with going 1x you'll be at 31t with 11-42, and 29t if you go 13-42.

I'm not sure about dropping the 11t, I think you'll need a different 13t to accept the lockring?  Also you'll lose some of your range, which defeats the purpose of going to the extended cog.  For example if you went with a 24t ring and 11-36 cassette your gear ratios would be 0.667 to 2.19.  28t ring with 13-42 cassette would be 0.667 to 2.15.  Almost the same gear range, but you've spent more money getting an expanded cog for the back.  I'd recommend just sticking with a stock 11-36 cassette and 24t up front instead.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Oct 29, 2015)

My knowledge of mtn bike mechanics is pretty spotty, so this is all prefaced with "as far as I know"...

My understanding is that power transfer is more efficient and you get less chain wear when running bigger cogs, for a given gear ratio.  So for example on my bike 34F-32R is about the same ratio as 24F-22R, but 34-32 is the better(?) gearing to use. That's why I was assuming it would be beneficial to increase the cog sizing overall, for a given shortest gear ratio. (In other words, 28 or 30 front ring + 42 rear cog vs a 24 front ring.)  (That and basing a 1x drivetrain on a 24 tooth front ring seems kind of wrong, though I can't explain why.)

Regarding dropping the 11 from the cassette, I'm not sure but I suspect you're right. 

I've also become aware of the issue of chainline since my previous post. 2x cranks have neither ring centered on the cassette. As I understand, you're supposed to be able to use the whole cassette in either front ring, but in my experience shifting into the extreme cogs on the cassette gets a bit unpredictable when I'm in the "wrong" ring up front. (for example shifting from 32 to 36 on the cassette when I'm in the big front ring.) So I have doubts about going 1x with my current cranks. (Although the low end would certainly work well with a 24, 26 or 28 ring in the current small ring position.)

On the advice of mtn bike guru friend, I'm now thinking of doing the following: Source a relatively cheap set of 3x cranks w/ 104 BDC. 30T narrow-wide ring mounted in the middle position. Bashring in the big ring position, which is what I wanted in the first place. 42 tooth extender cog on the cassette; keep the 11t; replace the 15t&17t with a 16t.

Then I can ditch the ugly (but well executed IMO) taco plate and, more importantly, move the dropper post lever where the front shifter currently is.  

Boom - Just in time for mtn bike season to end!


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## bvibert (Oct 29, 2015)

skifastr said:


> My knowledge of mtn bike mechanics is pretty spotty, so this is all prefaced with "as far as I know"...
> 
> My understanding is that power transfer is more efficient and you get less chain wear when running bigger cogs, for a given gear ratio.  So for example on my bike 34F-32R is about the same ratio as 24F-22R, but 34-32 is the better(?) gearing to use. That's why I was assuming it would be beneficial to increase the cog sizing overall, for a given shortest gear ratio. (In other words, 28 or 30 front ring + 42 rear cog vs a 24 front ring.)  (That and basing a 1x drivetrain on a 24 tooth front ring seems kind of wrong, though I can't explain why.)
> 
> ...



Yes, there's probably better (less) wear on bigger rings, but I don't expect it would be a huge difference.

Chainline is important.  I like to have it more or less centered on the cassette, but a lot of people say to have it slightly more inboard to line up with the bigger cogs.  Those people tend to run 1x setups with a 28T ring mounted to the small ring location on a 2x crank.  If you were to do something like that you could run a bash in the big ring spot, and keep your current cranks.  If 28T doesn't sound good to you then I think your plan is a good one!


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Oct 29, 2015)

28T in the current small-ring position is worth considering. That would certainly be a very inexpensive 1x experiment. Still not sure about the chainline on the smaller end of the cassette, but I still don't expect spend much time there anyway.

To mount a bash ring in the big ring spot of my current cranks, I think I would have to have the normally outward facing side of the ring face inward. AFAIK most bash rings are designed to mount to the outward facing mount surfaces of 3x cranks' big rings, but the big ring mount surfaces of my 2x cranks face inward. So assuming the bash ring is about as wide as a chainring, it shouldn't interfere with the chain. Presumably?  (But it wouldn't look as sexy as this setup. Click the middle of the 5 pictures. )

Thanks for the advice and suggestions!


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Oct 29, 2015)

BackLoafRiver, you said you kept your current 2x cranks in your 1x conversion. I assume the 32T ring is mounted in the big ring position.  Does it shift well into the 40T on the cassette?


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## bvibert (Oct 30, 2015)

skifastr said:


> To mount a bash ring in the big ring spot of my current cranks, I think I would have to have the normally outward facing side of the ring face inward. AFAIK most bash rings are designed to mount to the outward facing mount surfaces of 3x cranks' big rings, but the big ring mount surfaces of my 2x cranks face inward. So assuming the bash ring is about as wide as a chainring, it shouldn't interfere with the chain. Presumably?  (But it wouldn't look as sexy as this setup. Click the middle of the 5 pictures. )



Yes, you're probably right, you'd need to mount the bash backwards.  It wouldn't look as good, but it should function just as well.  Some bashes are thicker than a standard chainring, so there _could_ be an interference issue.  You'd need to find one on the thin side.  The best option to minimize risk and, while also being more versatile, would be to get a 3x crank.


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## BackLoafRiver (Nov 1, 2015)

skifastr said:


> BackLoafRiver, you said you kept your current 2x cranks in your 1x conversion. I assume the 32T ring is mounted in the big ring position.  Does it shift well into the 40T on the cassette?



I didn't keep my original crank on, just reused the arms and went to a wolf tooth narrow/ wide 32t up front. Shifting has been buttery smooth, or, at least it was when I was last on it a month ago. Fml


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