# Utah?



## mikec142 (Mar 6, 2019)

I got a last minute invite to tag along on a trip to Utah next week with a friend and his daughter.  He made all the plans so I didn't have a lot of say, but curious to hear how people feel about the various resorts/mountains.  We are staying in Park City and have lift tickets to ski there for two out of our four ski days.  So I have two days open.  My plan is Alta for sure...not sure about the open day.  How do people feel about Snowbird, Solitude, Snow Basin, Brighton, etc.?  Or is a second day at Alta the way to go?

Also, looking for fun, but reasonably priced dinner suggestions in Park City.

TIA.


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## andrec10 (Mar 6, 2019)

Snowbird!


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## trackbiker (Mar 6, 2019)

andrec10 said:


> Snowbird!



+1


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## Zand (Mar 6, 2019)

If you like steeps and crazy terrain, 100% go to Snowbird. If there's intermediates in the group Deer Valley might be a good backup option.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> I got a last minute invite to tag along on a trip to Utah next week with a friend and his daughter.  He made all the plans so I didn't have a lot of say, but curious to hear how people feel about the various resorts/mountains.  We are staying in Park City and have lift tickets to ski there for two out of our four ski days.  So I have two days open.  My plan is Alta for sure...not sure about the open day.  How do people feel about Snowbird, Solitude, Snow Basin, Brighton, etc.?  Or is a second day at Alta the way to go?
> 
> Also, looking for fun, but reasonably priced dinner suggestions in Park City.
> 
> TIA.



What do you like to ski?  We are set to get even more snow this week.


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## mikec142 (Mar 6, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> What do you like to ski?  We are set to get even more snow this week.



I love it all.  But if pressed I love the glades.

My weather app is confusing me...makes it seem like PC isn't looking too good for next week but Alta is looking very good.  My buddy keeps showing me positive stuff about the PC weather so I'm wondering if the reading I'm seeing is from the town, not the mountain.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> I love it all.  But if pressed I love the glades.
> 
> My weather app is confusing me...makes it seem like PC isn't looking too good for next week but Alta is looking very good.  My buddy keeps showing me positive stuff about the PC weather so I'm wondering if the reading I'm seeing is from the town, not the mountain.



This time of year things get warmer, so the lower you are, the softer the snow is.  FWIW Big Cottonwood and Little Cottonwood will be still cold.  

If you like glades, Brighton is pretty good.  

Go to Alta if you haven't been.  Snowbird if it is a good day with little or no wind and if visibility is not an issue.  Mineral Basin is amazing.  Snowbird has a lot more above treeline skiing than the other options.  

Deer Valley is an experience.  Better than PCMR IMHO.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2019)

Also feel free to PM me if you want more specific info.


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## ThinkSnow (Mar 6, 2019)

If you like Alta, and don't mind a bit of a longer drive, I'd recommend making the trek up to Powder mountain.  My experience is that it lives up to its name.  Otherwise any of the Cottonwood ski areas are a good bet.


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 6, 2019)

Mineral Basin would be good if ski patrol ever opened it within 2 days of a storm ending. By the time they get to it, it's turned to typical southern aspect suncrusted snow. It's for the birds IMO. Speaking of which....if you are pow chasing, Snowbird has been very slow to open up anything in a timely fashion. Consider yourself lucky if the Cirque is opened the day after a big storm. Alta usually seems to be a lot better about opening terrain quickly.


Traffic in LCC has gotten absolutely crazy. If there's supposed to be a big weekend storm.....you're gonna be stuck in traffic for a few hours. Might not hurt to make reservations to stay the night.


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## boston_e (Mar 6, 2019)

Cant go wrong with any of the choices, but I particularly love Brighton and Solitude.

For dinner, check out Shabu for off the charts good Asian Fusion.


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## FBGM (Mar 6, 2019)

Drink PBR at shucks. 

Vail City blows. Good luck with that place. 

LCC/BCC you will wait in traffic same amount as you ski when you hit it with all the other Jongs


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## machski (Mar 6, 2019)

When you ski Park City, make a plan where you are hitting and stick to it.  With the Canyons now ties in, you can get stuck trying to move horizontally all day.  So choose the Canyons side or PC side to hit each day and don't cross over much.

I would say your second free day hit Snowbird.  The cautions about the Cottonwoods on weekends and powder definitely apply.  We found Solitude to be less crowded on the Sunday we skied than Brighton.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## mikec142 (Mar 6, 2019)

machski said:


> When you ski Park City, make a plan where you are hitting and stick to it.  With the Canyons now ties in, you can get stuck trying to move horizontally all day.  So choose the Canyons side or PC side to hit each day and don't cross over much.
> 
> I would say your second free day hit Snowbird.  The cautions about the Cottonwoods on weekends and powder definitely apply.  We found Solitude to be less crowded on the Sunday we skied than Brighton.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



This sounds like good advice.  As an FYI, we are skiing Monday thru Thursday so I wonder if traffic will be manageable.


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2019)

LCC traffic can be bad but get up the canyon early and have a leisurely breakfast and its all avoided. Go down before 3 or stay and have a leisurely beer or 5 to avoid afternoon shitshow. 

Also I've got to imagine its kinda wet on the park city side right now. This latest system isn't really very nice at all. Supposed to get some cold snow Friday so hopefully that helps out. The base is fantastic right now.


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> This sounds like good advice.  As an FYI, we are skiing Monday thru Thursday so I wonder if traffic will be manageable.


It looks pretty quiet for weather so traffic should be no big deal.


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## AdironRider (Mar 6, 2019)

ThinkSnow said:


> If you like Alta, and don't mind a bit of a longer drive, I'd recommend making the trek up to Powder mountain.  My experience is that it lives up to its name.  Otherwise any of the Cottonwood ski areas are a good bet.



It is also flat and in no way like Alta. 

Stick to Cottonwood, Snowbird is my personal fav. Park City gets crap snow.


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## jimk (Mar 6, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> I got a last minute invite to tag along on a trip to Utah next week with a friend and his daughter.  He made all the plans so I didn't have a lot of say, but curious to hear how people feel about the various resorts/mountains.  We are staying in Park City and have lift tickets to ski there for two out of our four ski days.  So I have two days open.  My plan is Alta for sure...not sure about the open day.  How do people feel about Snowbird, Solitude, Snow Basin, Brighton, etc.?  Or is a second day at Alta the way to go?
> 
> Also, looking for fun, but reasonably priced dinner suggestions in Park City.
> 
> TIA.


I skied PC yesterday and Snowbird a couple days ago.  PC lower mtn has quite a bit of hard pack compared to Bird, but still fine conditions.  All Wasatch to get 1.5 to 3 feet of snow over next 2-3 days which should help all areas.  It's a spring snow storm with daytime temps just below freezing.  Town of PC might get some rain.  SLC proper all rain.  I'd enjoy your PC days and then take two days among the four of Alta, Bird, Soli, or Brighton.  Here is forecast for 9000' in PC area:
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-111.53861045837404&lat=40.61626975430542#.XIAVRrhOnIU
LCC and BCC will get quite a bit more snow than PC


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> looking for* fun, but reasonably priced dinner suggestions in Park City.*



Wasatch Brew Pub at the top of Main Street should fit the bill.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2019)

Agree that Snowbird has been slow opening up stuff this season.  The real reason has to do with a shortage of staff.  

Agree that traffic in LCC and even BCC has been terrible this season.  Though typically it quiets down considerably after President's Week.  The key term is "typically."


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Agree that Snowbird has been slow opening up stuff this season. * The real reason has to do with a shortage of staff.  *



There was a shortage of staff this summer when I was there too, I wonder if they're not doing well financially.


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## AdironRider (Mar 6, 2019)

Pretty much every ski resort out here is dealing with understaffing issues. It isn't a financial thing like they are hurting, but rather a combination of greed on their part (not paying enough), visa issues (tougher to get J1's), and a booming economy (pretty much every other job pays better and the West is doing better compared to most NE resort communities). Throw in a lack of affordable housing and you get the junk show of understaffed mountains. 

They shut down RFID gates here in Jackson at all the upper mountain lifts that had it and just run it on the base lifts now, solely because they can't staff them for example. Parking lots aren't getting plowed daily. Etc. 

Buck screw it, bring on the Ikon crowds anyways, regardless of the damage to the brand.


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## jimk (Mar 7, 2019)

I've skied A-Basin, Crested Butte, Snowbird, Big Sky and Park City in the last two weeks.  A fairly wide spread of western mtns.  Probably the least crowded was Park City surprisingly.  But this is just a random sample.  None were crazy busy, but all seem to be doing pretty good business.  I think the various multiresort passes may be a factor, but mostly it's probably because everywhere out here is having a good snow year and that's the biggest crowd driver.


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## p_levert (Mar 7, 2019)

I will be in SLC from Sunday to Tuesday.  I have an Ikon pass.   I am assuming that the LCC and BCC resorts will be very busy on Sunday, and the drive up/down could be a pain as well.  Is Deer Valley a good alternative for avoiding crowds and driving hassles?  Anything to know about parking lots and the like?  I know DV is more intermediate focused, but I am assuming there are also some glades and harder runs in the mix.


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## ThinkSnow (Mar 7, 2019)

AdironRider said:


> It is also flat and in no way like Alta.


  I guess the patroller we skied with must have known all the non-flat parts with knee-deep powder.


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## machski (Mar 7, 2019)

p_levert said:


> I will be in SLC from Sunday to Tuesday.  I have an Ikon pass.   I am assuming that the LCC and BCC resorts will be very busy on Sunday, and the drive up/down could be a pain as well.  Is Deer Valley a good alternative for avoiding crowds and driving hassles?  Anything to know about parking lots and the like?  I know DV is more intermediate focused, but I am assuming there are also some glades and harder runs in the mix.


DV can be very crowded too.  Also note that you must go to a ticket window with your Ikon pass and they can and do sell out on some days.  Use this link to reserve your ticket ahead of time https://ikonres.deervalley.com.

They definitely have a lot of trees and some legit steeps in the Daly Chutes, though rather short.  You can ski all of that in about 6 runs or so.  Mayflower Chutes are also listed as double, but they pale in comparison.  Those should only be a single.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## snoseek (Mar 7, 2019)

The snow is pretty thick at alta today so I imagine its super thick on the park city side. Maybe tomorrows colder system will reset the surface....


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## p_levert (Mar 7, 2019)

machski said:


> DV can be very crowded too.  Also note that you must go to a ticket window with your Ikon pass and they can and do sell out on some days.  Use this link to reserve your ticket ahead of time https://ikonres.deervalley.com.
> 
> They definitely have a lot of trees and some legit steeps in the Daly Chutes, though rather short.  You can ski all of that in about 6 runs or so.  Mayflower Chutes are also listed as double, but they pale in comparison.  Those should only be a single.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



Thanks for the tips, glad I asked.  Since they have a daily limit on tickets, I can't imagine it gets ridiculously crowded.  I already booked my spot for Sunday.  There's no downside, even if I change my mind, I will never use all 5 days at DV.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2019)

jimk said:


> I've skied A-Basin, Crested Butte, Snowbird, Big Sky and Park City in the last two weeks.  A fairly wide spread of western mtns. * Probably the least crowded was Park City surprisingly. * But this is just a random sample.  None were crazy busy, but all seem to be doing pretty good business.  I think the various multi-resort passes may be a factor, but mostly it's probably because everywhere out here is having a good snow year and that's the biggest crowd driver.



I wonder if it's the fact Park City is the only thing EPIC in the area; perhaps out-of-town EPIC holders are choosing the diversity they can get on that pass in California, Colorado, etc... instead.  

 Also, if I lived in Utah, IKON would be a much better pass, so maybe a bit of the local market is slowly being eroded from PC as well?

Heck, even as a visitor, I'll be going out there later this season and I know I'll be skiing Alta, Deer Valley, and Snowbasin, as I've already procured reasonable lift tickets in advance for those.  I'd like to hit Park City too, but not if I have to pay $150 to do so, I'll just wind up skiing somewhere else more affordably instead.


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## kingslug (Mar 7, 2019)

Im in PC now..skied here and Snowbird..not a bad day yet..even in the wet snow yesterday..today at the bird was awesome..powder all day. 
Consider that park city plus the canyons has 7400 acres..alta snowbird 5000 combined...
I havent had many bad days here in 23 years..
But yes..traffic has become insane..get there very early..leave early or late..pay attention to weather which changes fast.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2019)

kingslug said:


> yes..traffic has become insane..get there very early..leave early or late..



Is everyone in agreement that this is 100% IKON-related?


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## skiNEwhere (Mar 8, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Agree that Snowbird has been slow opening up stuff this season.  The real reason has to do with a shortage of staff.


Alta doesn't seem to have this problem. I've talked with a few Alta patrollers, and it seems like many of them started at snowbird and  moved over to Alta due to problems with management. Alta is just a better run resort, period. 




jimk said:


> I've skied A-Basin, Crested Butte, Snowbird, Big Sky and Park City in the last two weeks.  A fairly wide spread of western mtns.  Probably the least crowded was Park City surprisingly.


It seems like at PC the longest you'll wait in line is at the bottom of the mountain if you're at least an advanced skier. 9990, super kondor, jupiter never have any sort of wait whatsoever even during peak periods. Seems counterintuitive but most tourists just want to stick to groomers.

I don't think PC gets quite as little snow as their reputation holds. They average 300 inches a year but that measurement is taken mid mountain. Probably closer to 350/400 up top, which is where all the terrain worth skiing is at anyways. 




snoseek said:


> LCC traffic can be bad but get up the canyon early and have a leisurely breakfast and its all avoided. Go down before 3 or stay and have a leisurely beer or 5 to avoid afternoon shitshow.



Last season that was true. This season I've hit the mouth of LCC at 7:30 AM on an 8 inch weekend pow day and hit a lot of traffic. I've only been here 2 seasons so my sample size is pretty small, but last season we didn't seem to have that problem. I've seen it take 4+ hours to get down the canyon on 2 seperate occasions this year as well. It's been crazy.


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## kingslug (Mar 8, 2019)

Big dump day..no wait at all..tomorrow will be different..so..take an advanced lesson which is more like atour and bypass liftlines all day


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## thetrailboss (Mar 8, 2019)

skiNEwhere said:


> Alta doesn't seem to have this problem. I've talked with a few Alta patrollers, and it seems like many of them started at snowbird and  moved over to Alta due to problems with management. Alta is just a better run resort, period.



Trust me.  Alta is by no means perfect.  

As to Snowbird, the low snow year last season led to some pretty bad employee benefit cuts.  The ramifications are being felt by management now.  



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## Zand (Mar 22, 2019)

How are things looking heading into next week? Looks like base depths are sufficiently deep, hope the surface conditions work out better this time around. Hitting Brighton Thursday, Jackson Friday-Sunday then Alta/Bird Monday and Tuesday. One of the Jackson days will probably be a "rest day" unless it dumps.


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## lerops (Mar 22, 2019)

I was at the Cottonwood canyons for 6 days before yesterday. Temps went up to 40s during the say and froze at night. But no ice, just hardpack in the morning and spring conditions later in the day. Though places like Honeycomb became challenging towards the end. I had a great time regardless. 

But with the new snow they are getting, things should be back to normal. 


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## thetrailboss (Mar 22, 2019)

lerops said:


> I was at the Cottonwood canyons for 6 days before yesterday. Temps went up to 40s during the say and froze at night. But no ice, just hardpack in the morning and spring conditions later in the day. Though places like Honeycomb became challenging towards the end. I had a great time regardless.
> 
> But with the new snow they are getting, things should be back to normal.
> 
> ...



Right.  We're at the time of year when things are warmer and "powder" becomes rarer to find.  Doesn't mean that the skiing is bad.  It is awesome.  Best cover I have seen out here in eight years.


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## Skrn (Mar 22, 2019)

On my flight to SLC right now and will ski cottonwood canyon for a few days. Is it get a bit less crowded now we are in March? Which resort should I go tomorrow (Saturday) to avoid the crowd?


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## thetrailboss (Mar 22, 2019)

Skrn said:


> On my flight to SLC right now and will ski cottonwood canyon for a few days. Is it get a bit less crowded now we are in March? Which resort should I go tomorrow (Saturday) to avoid the crowd?



Generally, it has been less busy.  That said, last Sunday it was packed at Snowbird.  Normally I would say Solitude, but not this year because it is on the Ikon pass.  

Best thing is to get up early....Alta or Brighton probably.  I think weather will be an issue tomorrow and will limit Snowbird.


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## lerops (Mar 22, 2019)

I skied Alta last Fr and Sat, and BCC afterwards. 

I did not wait more than 5 minutes at Alta, but generally less. Solitude was mostly ski-on. Brighton was more crowded, but still at most a few minutes. Don’t forget that kids ski free at Brighton, so that makes it a more attractive. 

I would not choose based on potential crowds at this point. 


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## Skrn (Mar 22, 2019)

Thanks! Likely will go to Brighton then. Will it be early enough if we get to the mouth of canyon by 730am?



thetrailboss said:


> Generally, it has been less busy.  That said, last Sunday it was packed at Snowbird.  Normally I would say Solitude, but not this year because it is on the Ikon pass.
> 
> Best thing is to get up early....Alta or Brighton probably.  I think weather will be an issue tomorrow and will limit Snowbird.


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## abc (Mar 22, 2019)

Skrn said:


> Thanks! Likely will go to Brighton then. Will it be early enough if we get to the mouth of canyon by 730am?


Yes (at least for a non powder day)


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## Skrn (Mar 22, 2019)

abc said:


> Yes (at least for a non powder day)



Thanks!


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## snoseek (Mar 22, 2019)

There was a couple hard snow days this week but we got half a foot of dense snow and a bit this afternoon. The right aspects were skiing good today. Wildcat chair made a good recovery that's for sure. Carherines was great as well. Maybe some more Sunday?

Oh and I think crowds are starting to slack a bit. Lot of people leaving in the next week at least Im hopeful.


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## asnowmobiler (Mar 23, 2019)

The parking lots at Solitude and Brighton were overflowing today, We parked fairly close to the lodge at 8:30, it was a zoo shorty afterwards. Had a few ten minute lift lines, I don’t  remember having too many of them before but still not bad at all.
The conditions were perfect on the groomed trails that I enjoy and I’m told the backcountry was awesome if you know where to go.


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## Skrn (Mar 23, 2019)

Skied Alta today (Saturday). We arrived around 815am and there weren’t so many cars. We were able to parked very closed to the lodge. The parking lot was eventually filled late morning. Collins lift had about 5 minutes lift line in the morning. Other lifts had very short or no line. Lodge was not overcrowded either. Also no traffic going in or out of the canyon. So today is fine in terms of crowds.

With 4” snow fall before the first chair, the skiing was great in the morning. As temperature rising during the day, the snow becomes wet around noon, becoming harder to ski, especially at lower mountain. After 2pm, the snow facing sun became corn which was great to ski. Also found better snow in the trees.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 23, 2019)

Keep the UT reports coming, I'll be there in a week!


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## thetrailboss (Mar 24, 2019)

Skied Snowbird today.  8" and kept snowing all day.  Wetter base snow.  Skiing was great.


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## abc (Mar 24, 2019)

> Normally I would say Solitude, but not this year because it is on the Ikon pass.


That’s probably this season’s #1 misleading myth!

I skied Solitude 3 different days: Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Guess what? There’s never any lines! Any of those days!!! The lines at Brighton was longer. 

And my buddy skied Solitude 2 of the major powder days. No lines then either!!!

What you may encounter, is having to park 1/2 mile away, if you arrive after 10.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

abc said:


> That’s probably this season’s #1 misleading myth!
> 
> I skied Solitude 3 different days: Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Guess what? There’s never any lines! Any of those days!!! The lines at Brighton was longer.
> 
> ...



Well, what are you using as a comparison?  It may not be as crowded as to other places, but for Solitude itself, it has been much busier with parking being the big issue as you said.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, what are you using as a comparison?  It may not be as crowded as to other places, but for Solitude itself, it has been much busier with parking being the big issue as you said.


But the point being, it's "not as crowded as other places".


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## p_levert (Mar 25, 2019)

I skied at the Solitude a couple of weeks ago, and I did notice that the parking lot was undersized (not enough toilets either...).  So what exactly happens if the two lots are full?  Is there an overflow lot with a bus, or do you just park along the road with  a long walk to the base?  Please advise.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2019)

p_levert said:


> do you just park along the road with  a long walk to the base?


Yep!

(or you continue to Brighton in the hope there's parking there)


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## p_levert (Mar 25, 2019)

thanks for the info abc!


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

abc said:


> But the point being, it's "not as crowded as other places".



True, but it is more crowded than it was.  Personally, doesn't impact me.  If anything, I say everyone should ski at Solitude!  :lol:


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## abc (Mar 25, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> True, but it is more crowded than it was.  Personally, doesn't impact me.  If anything, I say everyone should ski at Solitude!  :lol:


Even though it would have impacted me (though not any more at this point of the season), I'd still say people should ski at Solitude if they want to avoid crowd. Because everywhere else, they'd be worse off!

To say Solitude is the only one that's unlimited, therefore must be most crowded, is just a theory that wasn't supported by evidence.


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## p_levert (Mar 25, 2019)

So presumably Solitude owners would like to expand the lot, but are blocked by NFS red tape?  Of course, the alternative to all of this is to park at the bottom of the canyon and ride the bus.  And then enjoy the uncrowded slopes at Solitude.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

p_levert said:


> So presumably Solitude owners would like to expand the lot, but are blocked by NFS red tape?  Of course, the alternative to all of this is to park at the bottom of the canyon and ride the bus.  And then enjoy the uncrowded slopes at Solitude.



So the "owners" are Alterra.  And for less than a year.  So I don't think they've thought that far ahead yet.  They are still figuring things out. Look for them to replace the Sunrise this year with an HSQ.  That was in the works when DV owned it.  

As to the bus, yes, the parking lots down there are also overflowing.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

abc said:


> Even though it would have impacted me (though not any more at this point of the season), I'd still say people should ski at Solitude if they want to avoid crowd. Because everywhere else, they'd be worse off!
> 
> To say Solitude is the only one that's unlimited, therefore must be most crowded, is just a theory that wasn't supported by evidence.



And do you live out here and ski in the Canyons every weekend as I do?


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## abc (Mar 25, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> And do you live out here and ski in the Canyons every weekend as I do?


I don't. But I have a local friend who ski Solitude often.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

abc said:


> I don't. But I have a local friend who ski Solitude often.



Then he/she would tell you that business is up at Solitude.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Then he/she would tell you that business is up at Solitude.


Still, the point remains, "business is up" at Solitude is still BELOW other resorts!!! 

Why am I bothering talking to a stone wall?


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

abc said:


> Still, the point remains, "business is up" at Solitude is still BELOW other resorts!!!
> 
> Why am I bothering talking to a stone wall?



That was not my point.  Never has been.  Solitude, year over year, is a lot busier than it has been historically.   It's apples to oranges comparing Solitude to others.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> That was not my point.  Solitude, year over year, is a lot busier than it has been historically.  That's been my point all along.  It's apples to oranges comparing Solitude to others.


You were advising people NOT to go to Solitude because it's "busier".... But they should go to Brighton!

And yet, you're NOT comparing Solitude with Brighton? Just because Solitude is busier than itself...  

I give up.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 25, 2019)

abc said:


> You were advising people NOT to go to Solitude because it's "busier".... But they should go to Brighton!
> 
> And yet, you're NOT comparing Solitude with Brighton? Just because Solitude is busier than itself...
> 
> I give up.



The OP way back when threw out some options for this weekend.  I suggested against Solitude because it has been very busy this year.  That's a fact.  I did suggest Alta or Brighton based on the weather.  Those resorts, that I ski often, are good options considering the weather that we had.  Are both busier than they have been?  Sure.  But I hear a lot of grumbling from locals about Solitude and have firsthand seen the ungodly parking situation this season.

Solitude is indeed a lot busier than it has historically been.  Call it because of the snow or the Ikon Pass, it just is.  Just calling it as it is.  It's fine if you disagree.


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## p_levert (Mar 25, 2019)

Gotta agree with abc.  Solitude is parking-constrained and for this reason operates under its true skier capacity.  Get there early to avoid parking problems, or ride the bus, and you will have a pleasant day on the slopes.


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## lerops (Mar 25, 2019)

Fwiw, I skied Alta, Solitude and Brighton with a week. Solitude was by far the least busy, even on a weekend day. Rarely rode with others on the lift. Brighton was way busier even though I skied there on a weekday. 


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## jimk (Mar 26, 2019)

Traffic in LCC is a growing issue, no denying, but at this point of the season it's not a problem for the most part.  I've been living near the mouth of BCC since 1st of March and mostly skiing Snowbird, about 15 days in March.  Saturday, March 9, 2019 was a special day - and not in a good way.  I had skied the previous two days in great powder conditions.  That morning there was more new snow, but this is not good for Saturday traffic.  I decided to wait and go to the mtn around noon.  They had closed the LCC access road from 6-8AM.  My son got in traffic about 645AM and got to Snowbird about 930AM.  When I heard this and other reports of folks taking even longer, I bagged skiing and went snowshoeing with my wife in Mill Creek Canyon.  We went by the mouth of BCC at noon and saw a huge line of traffic on Wasatch BLVD trying to get up BCC.  I later heard that they had closed BCC too because there was too many cars up there.  They actually were turning cars around up near Sol/Bright and sending them back down.  I also heard cars were parked along the BCC road for a mile or two below Soli that day - huge mess.

Morale of story - beware of LCC and BCC on snowy weekends in prime ski season.

There are a lot of IKON visitors here this winter and I've talked to many on the lifts, but these huge powder day crowds are mainly driven by locals coming out of the woodwork!  I'm told there are people here in UT who own a season pass and only use it on powder days.


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## machski (Mar 26, 2019)

jimk said:


> Traffic in LCC is a growing issue, no denying, but at this point of the season it's not a problem for the most part.  I've been living near the mouth of BCC since 1st of March and mostly skiing Snowbird, about 15 days in March.  Saturday, March 9, 2019 was a special day - and not in a good way.  I had skied the previous two days in great powder conditions.  That morning there was more new snow, but this is not good for Saturday traffic.  I decided to wait and go to the mtn around noon.  They had closed the LCC access road from 6-8AM.  My son got in traffic about 645AM and got to Snowbird about 930AM.  When I heard this and other reports of folks taking even longer, I bagged skiing and went snowshoeing with my wife in Mill Creek Canyon.  We went by the mouth of BCC at noon and saw a huge line of traffic on Wasatch BLVD trying to get up BCC.  I later heard that they had closed BCC too because there was too many cars up there.  They actually were turning cars around up near Sol/Bright and sending them back down.  I also heard cars were parked along the BCC road for a mile or two below Soli that day - huge mess.
> 
> Morale of story - beware of LCC and BCC on snowy weekends in prime ski season.
> 
> There are a lot of IKON visitors here this winter and I've talked to many on the lifts, but these huge powder day crowds are mainly driven by locals coming out of the woodwork!  I'm told there are people here in UT who own a season pass and only use it on powder days.


Perfect example where you cannot blame Ikon alone, especially in LCC as you get a Maximum 7 days combined in that Canyon on an Ikon.  Too many weekends with too much traffic to blame Ikon exclusively, especially given the powder starved locals in Utah.  My business brings me into SLC on the general aviiation side quite often.  Last year when I asked how the skiing was with the rampies, most said they hadn't even boothered due to lack of snow/powder.  If that is the wasatch local's mentality, there is the answer.  While I hope this scenario does not play out, if next year were to be warmer and drier in the Wasatch, would be interesting to see the congestion or lack there of.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 26, 2019)

jimk said:


> I'm told there are people here in UT who own a season pass and only use it on powder days.



That is so bizarre.  I would suggest those people don't even truly like skiing that much if you only go a handful of days/year, and refuse to ski in anything but the best conditions.


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## tumbler (Mar 26, 2019)

jimk said:


> Traffic in LCC is a growing issue, no denying, but at this point of the season it's not a problem for the most part.  I've been living near the mouth of BCC since 1st of March and mostly skiing Snowbird, about 15 days in March.  Saturday, March 9, 2019 was a special day - and not in a good way.  I had skied the previous two days in great powder conditions.  That morning there was more new snow, but this is not good for Saturday traffic.  I decided to wait and go to the mtn around noon.  They had closed the LCC access road from 6-8AM.  My son got in traffic about 645AM and got to Snowbird about 930AM.  When I heard this and other reports of folks taking even longer, I bagged skiing and went snowshoeing with my wife in Mill Creek Canyon.  We went by the mouth of BCC at noon and saw a huge line of traffic on Wasatch BLVD trying to get up BCC.  I later heard that they had closed BCC too because there was too many cars up there.  They actually were turning cars around up near Sol/Bright and sending them back down.  I also heard cars were parked along the BCC road for a mile or two below Soli that day - huge mess.
> 
> Morale of story - beware of LCC and BCC on snowy weekends in prime ski season.
> 
> There are a lot of IKON visitors here this winter and I've talked to many on the lifts, but these huge powder day crowds are mainly driven by locals coming out of the woodwork!  I'm told there are people here in UT who own a season pass and only use it on powder days.



I was at Solitude March 9th and the locals I rode the lift with said it was the busiest they had ever seen it.  Lift lines were pretty long in the morning but got much better in the afternoon.  Looking at the road from the hill you could see cars parked everywhere.  FWIW I'm not Ikon...;-)


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## jimk (Mar 26, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> That is so bizarre.  I would suggest those people don't even truly like skiing that much if you only go a handful of days/year, and refuse to ski in anything but the best conditions.



Additionally, powder days (particularly Sat and Sundays) can be so crazy-busy that it wrings some of the joy out of the day.  And they can also be low visibility, which you can deal with by staying in the trees, but it cuts down on the amount of useable terrain.  I really enjoy low-crowd sunny weekdays in the spring following the sun around the mtn.  Geezer thrills.:razz:


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## abc (Mar 26, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> _That is so bizarre.
> 
> _if you only go *a handful of days/year*, and refuse to ski in anything but the best conditions.


Utah skiers can afford it!

Most people define a "powder day" as days with more than 6". By that definition, Utah skiers can have a "handful" of powder days IN A MONTH!

With a typical season of 4-5 month, that's more than many here who ski a year IN ANY CONDITION!

Even in the northeast, we have more powder days we remember. Unfortunately, many of us live too far away and have jobs that doesn't allow skiing EVERY powder days. But the lucky majority Utah skiers are only 1/2 hr from the mountain. And SOME business do allow people to come in late (or not come in at all) on a powder day. So yes, they can ski just about EVERY powder day! 

And best of all, Alta/Snowbird have on average 20-30 powder (6"+) days in its long and plentiful season.


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## ironhippy (Mar 27, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> That is so bizarre.  I would suggest those people don't even truly like skiing that much if you only go a handful of days/year, and refuse to ski in anything but the best conditions.



A few years ago I was skiing every weekend day and every other day I could.
Lately I've been into winter biking, as a result I ski less and less each year. I generally only pick days when the snow is soft and lift lines minimal.

I love skiing, but I also love riding my bike and snow shoeing, cross country skiing, etc. etc. I only downhill ski when the conditions are good. In fact, I've skipped days that would be good because I knew the hill would be crowded and I'd spend more time in line than skiing.

If you have other activities you enjoy as much as skiing (which could be back country skiing) I can easily see having a pass in Utah and only going to the resort when there is fresh snow.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 27, 2019)

The real test will be next season, especially if it is a low snow year or even an average season.


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## AdironRider (Mar 27, 2019)

Then whatever resort that has snow (which historically has been Jackson - we rarely have huge swings from terrible to awesome from year to year) is going to be borderline un-skiable due to crowds.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 27, 2019)

AdironRider said:


> Then whatever resort that has snow (which historically has been Jackson - we rarely have huge swings from terrible to awesome from year to year) is going to be borderline un-skiable due to crowds.


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## JimG. (Mar 27, 2019)

abc said:


> Utah skiers can afford it!



Bunch of powder princesses.


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## snoseek (Mar 28, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Bunch of powder princesses.


Im so  guilty of this for this season. I haven't skied since Sunday as its been warm and dry...real warm. Powder got nuked to hell and the local mtb trails are opening. When we were getting hit hard I made a point to get on...I need to ski more and not have midsummer regrets


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2019)

snoseek said:


> Im so  guilty of this for this season. I haven't skied since Sunday as its been warm and dry...real warm. Powder got nuked to hell and the local mtb trails are opening. When we were getting hit hard I made a point to get on...I need to ski more and not have midsummer regrets



Spring skiing here is awesome.  And hardly anyone comes to do it!


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## mikec142 (Mar 28, 2019)

This is definitely late, but you were all so helpful that I figured I had to report on the trip.  

I've never been to Utah so it was a revelation from a skiing standpoint.

Flew in on Monday morning (March 11th) and was checked into the hotel and geared up by 1:30pm so was able to get a couple of solid bluebird hours in at Park City that day. The Utah ski areas had gotten a big dumping over the weekend, so there was plenty of powder to be found. Spent the afternoon skiing the Motherlode, Silverlode and McConkey lift. McConkey's Bowl and the areas off that lift were my favorites.  Ate dinner at Wasatch Brew Pub (as per one of your suggestions)...it was perfect for what we were looking for (casual burger and a beer).

Tuesday (March 12th) we drove to Alta...

The drive up the canyon is spectacular (no traffic) and we got there around 9am and got a spot in the top parking lot.  Another bluebird day and shocking how much untracked (and tracked) powder was there. Loved the areas off the Collins, Sugarloaf, and Supreme lifts. Alta fits into that category of "untamed" to me. There is some seriously hairy terrain that I loved. I didn't do any of the "hike to" stuff. It wasn't necessary as there is so much great stuff to do without hiking. My buddy and his daughter were looking to take it easy in the afternoon so I really got to check out the steep stuff on Baldy Shoulder and High Traverse. The light got flat around 2pm and I was wearing my dark lenses which made it really hard to see the bumps. Actually kind of dangerous, but I survived. The Wildcat lift area was cool, but the lift itself is a slow double with no bar. Talk about old school. I was admittedly nervous riding it. Loved Alta. The drive up Little Cottonwood Canyon is worth the price of admission in and of itself.  Dinner was at La Cantina in PC.  Again, perfect for what it was.

It started snowing Tuesday night and pretty much didn't stop until early morning on Thursday. We skied Park City again on Wednesday (March 13th) in the howling winds. Mountain hosts said the Jupiter area was minimal visibility and high winds so we pretty much stayed down low with a trek up McConkey's as the exception. A ton of fun. We went to take the gondola over to the Canyons side after lunch but found out that the Gondola was closed due to wind.  I had dinner this night with a buddy who live in PC at No Name Saloon.  It was okay.  My buddy said, best burger in PC.  I say, good music but the burger was fine at best.  My buddy and his daughter who I was traveling with ate at Shabu and loved it.

The plan for Thursday (March 14th) was to do Snowbird or Solitude, but the canyon roads were closed until about 10am so we skied at PC-Canyons. I had heard some negative things about Canyons, but was proven very, very wrong. Canyons has all the things I hate about a resort, from huge mansions on the mountain to roads that go under the lifts to the complete and utter over developed feeling.  It felt like I was skiing in an unaffordable real estate advertisement. That said, what we didn't know was that the Canyons side of the resort was closed all day on Wednesday due to winds so we got 15" of untracked powder on a bluebird day on Thursday. Lapped the Saddleback, and Dreamcatcher areas all day with a brief excursion on Tombstone and 9990. The Dreamcatcher area was outrageous with both pine and aspen glades. Same thing with Saddleback (but more people). Dinner was at Davanza's.  We had heard its the best pizza in PC.  There was a huge line but since we were an odd sized party of 3 they were able to seat us right away.  The place is quirky and very collegiate feeling with beer cans all over the walls.  I guess that I'm spoiled with the NJ/NY pizza thing because this was some really bad pizza.  That said, we were starving and heading to the airport for a red eye, so we made do.

A couple of notes...I found Alta to be amazing. I was shocked at how much I liked Canyons. I really didn't love Park City (the mountain) with the exception of a few areas. Even though the town of Park City was cool and fun for nightlife, the next time I go I would stay at Alta/Snowbird. No nightlife whatsoever, but who cares, I'm there for the skiing. Plus it eliminates the road closure issues. If I were there with the family, I might stay in PC again though. Flying into SLC was simple and it was cool to be on the mountain the same day.

One quick note...although I didn't love the lack of character at PCMR and it's easy to see how the experience can be stuffy...I will say that the customer service aspect is pretty high class.  On day three, my brand new ski pants got ruined by magic marker that rubbed off the rental poles (rented from the resort).  After skiing on day 4 I showed the pants to the manager at the rental shop who promptly got guest services involved.  They got one of their managers involved.  The solution was that the manager would pick up my pants back at my hotel and send them out to be cleaned.  After a few unsuccessful tries at cleaning them, PCMR ordered and paid for a replacement that is being shipped to my house as I'm typing this.  The manager has been in constant contact with me via text and email and frankly couldn't be any more gracious about the experience.  

Unfortunately, I have zero idea of how to post pictures on AZ.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 28, 2019)

snoseek said:


> *I haven't skied since Sunday as its been warm and dry...real warm. Powder got nuked to hell *



I'll be there soon.  Leave it to me to hit probably the worst week of a ski season in a banner year!


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## kingslug (Mar 28, 2019)

I used to go for the spring skiing but got skunked many times when it wouldn't war up and was stuck on groomers. 

As far as posting pics:
hit Go Advanced
hit manage attachments
hit add files
choose the pic you want  from whats stored in your computers/ phone gallery
hit open
hit upload
hit insert inline
hit done...and there you go


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## asnowmobiler (Mar 28, 2019)

No need to go to the advanced section.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> This is definitely late, but you were all so helpful that I figured I had to report on the trip.
> 
> I've never been to Utah so it was a revelation from a skiing standpoint.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear it worked out.  Consider me one who prefers the "Canyons side" to PCMR.  If you do a little homework, you can make the Canyons work to your advantage by skiing up and down versus across the resort.  There are tons of nooks and crannies and good woods.  

Glad to hear you had a great day at Alta.  Snowbird's crazy stuff is right in front of you with no hiking required most of the time.


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## snoseek (Mar 28, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'll be there soon.  Leave it to me to hit probably the worst week of a ski season in a banner year!



Next week holds some potential and we have a refresh incoming as I type. Putting the bike down for a bit and getting some.


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## Zand (Mar 28, 2019)

At Brighton today...natural stuff is crusted over...edgeable enough to get down stuff but not really fun to ski. Doyle's Dive under the top of Snake Creek is the softest ungroomed I've found so far. Will keep searching for similar stuff.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2019)

Zand said:


> At Brighton today...natural stuff is crusted over...edgeable enough to get down stuff but not really fun to ski. Doyle's Dive under the top of Snake Creek is the softest ungroomed I've found so far. Will keep searching for similar stuff.



Your timing has not been too good this season unfortunately.  We are just coming off our first big warm spell.


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## Zand (Mar 28, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Your timing has not been too good this season unfortunately.  We are just coming off our first big warm spell.



Tomorrow might be a huge sleeper day. All of a sudden the NWS forecast for Alta is 15-23 inches tonight.


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## jimk (Mar 28, 2019)

Zand said:


> Tomorrow might be a huge sleeper day. All of a sudden the NWS forecast for Alta is 15-23 inches tonight.


Agree.  I hope to ski Snowbird tomorrow.  Don't know what to say about crowds.  If this was early March I'd say beware of mobs, but tomorrow might be semi-sleeper??  Probably will ski Bird on Sat and Sun too, or maybe Alta one day.


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## snoseek (Mar 29, 2019)

Zand said:


> Tomorrow might be a huge sleeper day. All of a sudden the NWS forecast for Alta is 15-23 inches tonight.



I think you're right as I just got off work and drove down and it was coming down pretty hard. Im getting my ass up that canyon early tomorrow...hopefully the road conditions allow


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## jimk (Mar 29, 2019)

Rolled over in bed to see that LCC road closed from 530AM to approx. 8AM today, 3/29.  Bird got 10" in last 12 hrs.


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## Zand (Mar 29, 2019)

jimk said:


> Rolled over in bed to see that LCC road closed from 530AM to approx. 8AM today, 3/29.  Bird got 10" in last 12 hrs.



Isn't their snowstake that's on the webcam 18"? Because it's totally buried right now...


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## snoseek (Mar 29, 2019)

If you want a fighting chance get in the lineup early and wait. I should have stayed up there last night. I got to wonder if half the valley is gonna try to get up.


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## Zand (Mar 29, 2019)

Alta is reporting 13". Hopefully to the powderhounds that's not enough for a real powder day and they'll all stay home. And maybe all the Ikon passholders in the area used their AltaBird days already. Wishful thinking right?


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## snoseek (Mar 29, 2019)

Today will be good. I got on the work van up so no lineup for us! Get lined up ASAP and you shoukf be ok

Edit road is open 4×4 with snows or chains


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## Skrn (Mar 29, 2019)

Wishful thinking for sure. I was there last weekend. Very light crowd on Saturday with Alta reporting 4" before first chair, much larger crowd on Sunday with Alta reporting 7" by first chair. My co-worker who works remotely from SLC is taking a day off today to ski snowbird. So locals will come out if they can, especially after a dry week from Monday to Thursday. 

Hope you get some good turns.



Zand said:


> Alta is reporting 13". Hopefully to the powderhounds that's not enough for a real powder day and they'll all stay home. And maybe all the Ikon passholders in the area used their AltaBird days already. Wishful thinking right?


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## thetrailboss (Mar 29, 2019)

12" fresh at Snowbird.  10" at my house.  They forecast 1" or less.  Amazing.  Enjoy it today.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 29, 2019)

Zand said:


> Alta is reporting 13". Hopefully to the powderhounds that's not enough for a real powder day and they'll all stay home. And maybe all the Ikon passholders in the area used their AltaBird days already. Wishful thinking right?



As said, hopefully you are skiing now!  Wish I was, but I will get mine this weekend.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2019)

Well this is encouraging.  I'll be at Snowbasin on Sunday, and they're reporting 13" and still snowing.

EDIT: Snowbasin's live snowstake is at 15" right now.   And Alta's webcam shows it's still coming down.


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## Teleskier (Mar 29, 2019)

*proper expectations are everything*



mikec142 said:


> Canyons has all the things I hate about a resort, from huge mansions on the mountain to roads that go under the lifts to the complete and utter over developed feeling.  It felt like I was skiing in an unaffordable real estate advertisement. [But...] I was shocked at how much I liked Canyons. I really didn't love Park City (the mountain) with the exception of a few areas. Even though the town of Park City was cool and fun for nightlife, the next time I go I would stay at Alta/Snowbird.



Good write up and helpful, thanks for sharing.

I wasn’t able to share my tips before you left (actually avoided it so as to not draw more Utah fire), but sounds like you did PC right and called it right:

Casual burger and beer
Don’t be shocked by skiing between all the “1%” mansions (no one mentioned to me)
Don’t expect world class pizza despite over-inflated local proclamations 
Don’t expect ‘the world’s best burger’ despite over-inflated local proclamations
[Me] Don’t expect Aspen/Austria/Vermont/elsewhere food or wine or beer scene
[Me] Don’t expect full-sized drinks or adult-strength beer despite Utah TV commercials
Do expect fun bluebird powder (except on the years they don’t have it)
From the Utah-lovers here (they’re allowed) who promoted Utah here so much, that I gave it a try based on their advice last year… they had me expecting:

“best in the world” food scene
“best in the world” wine scene
“best in the world” brewery scene
“best in the world” public transport
"best in the world" wide-open terrain uncrowded western powder skiing (etc)
…. so it inflated my expectations much higher than anything that PC could ever be capable of delivering. It was no Aspen.

It was also their worst snow year last year; windy, grey, crusted-over hard pack - which didn’t help my first (and never again) Utah experience that had me realize (like never before) that I need full-sized and adult-strength beer at après-ski for my own personal ski vacations. Other's mileage may vary. 

Proper expectations are everything… sounds like you had them set right, and thus had a good time. 

Glad you had a fun and bluebird trip, and sounds like you got some amazing customer service to boot.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> didn’t help my first (and never again) Utah experience



FYI, recall from the past, this is the Che Guevara disciple who (bizarrely) hates Utah because it isn't Marxist.


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## snoseek (Mar 29, 2019)

Park city is breck west...not that there's anything wrong with that but there are other places in Utah to ski some would argue better. Byob. ..Im not a huge drinker so that doesn't matter too much. My supply for pot is limitless and cheap fwiw.

Anyhow I sure do hope you made it up here. This storm again overdelivering!


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2019)

I just ran the newest models, and next Tuesday/Wednesday has trended much colder on the GFS (still too warm on the Canuck), so there's a chance for something nice there.


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## Edd (Mar 29, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> which didn’t help my first (and never again) Utah experience that had me realize (like never before) that I need full-sized and adult-strength beer at après-ski for my own personal ski vacations. Other's mileage may vary.



LOL! Yeah, i need that too.


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## abc (Mar 29, 2019)

> From the Utah-lovers here (they’re allowed) who promoted Utah here so much, that I gave it a try based on their advice last year… they had me expecting:
> 
> 
> “best in the world” food scene
> ...


One man's ceiling is another man's floor!

Park City (NOT "Utah"), isn't the "best in the world" of anything. It's plenty nice in many aspect. A lot of people find it a well-balanced place to live, to ski, to vacation. But "best"??? Anyone who believe in that, well, deserves the disappointment, I'm afraid. 

Now, UTAH does more often than not have the BEST snow in the world! It's just not in Park City!!!

Park City on the other hand, probably have some of the "best" IN UTAH food and drink options. But Utah isn't the world.


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## Zand (Mar 29, 2019)

Went to hop on the 8:20 bus...didn't arrive till 8:50 then took till 10:05 to get to Alta. Should've known better with all the advice to get up early. Missed first tracks but still an epic day. 20"+ up top. Mob scene though although it has calmed down a bit in the past hour.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 29, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Good write up and helpful, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I wasn’t able to share my tips before you left (actually avoided it so as to not draw more Utah fire), but sounds like you did PC right and called it right:
> 
> ...



As soon as I saw the knock on public transit, I realized who this was and decided not to offer a substantive response other than to say, "to each thine own."  :roll:


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## thetrailboss (Mar 29, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> I just ran the newest models, and next Tuesday/Wednesday has trended much colder on the GFS (still too warm on the Canuck), so there's a chance for something nice there.



NWS/NOAA said another "significant" event is coming.  Considering that this storm was "insignificant", on the order of forecast 1" snow, but turned into 10", it could be good next week...

This year they have been underestimating them.


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## Skrn (Mar 29, 2019)

I don’t drink much so wouldn’t comment on wine.

In terms of food, PC has a lot of very nice upper end restaurants. Cottonwood Heights has a lot of cheaper restaurants with great quality. They are definitely not the best in the world. But in terms of price/quality ratio and variety, the restaurant scene there blew most New England ski towns (as well as Boston) out of the water. I wouldn’t draw conclusion based on the quality of pizza in one restaurant.



Teleskier said:


> Good write up and helpful, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I wasn’t able to share my tips before you left (actually avoided it so as to not draw more Utah fire), but sounds like you did PC right and called it right:
> 
> ...


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## Zand (Mar 29, 2019)

If anyone is coming up to LCC tomorrow it hasn't stopped dumping the entire day. I really DON'T want to go to Jackson tonight lol.


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## snoseek (Mar 29, 2019)

Zand said:


> If anyone is coming up to LCC tomorrow it hasn't stopped dumping the entire day. I really DON'T want to go to Jackson tonight lol.



Yeah you got a good one that's for sure!


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## abc (Mar 29, 2019)

Zand said:


> If anyone is coming up to LCC tomorrow it hasn't stopped dumping the entire day. I really DON'T want to go to Jackson tonight lol.


Then don’t go. 

I always ski for snow, not terrain. 

(But I’m breaking my own rule by planning a trip to Tahoe in 2 weeks instead of Utah — For the terrain more than for the snow quality)


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## jimk (Mar 29, 2019)

Snowbird 3/29/19.  Zand hit the jackpot.  One of the best days in LCC in the last month.  Good, deep snow and not too crowded or terrible traffic.


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## jimk (Mar 29, 2019)

First pic from summit, sure doesn't look like late March


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## kingslug (Mar 29, 2019)

Welcome to Utah...my favorite place..in the world..


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## abc (Mar 29, 2019)

“Best” snow, in the world!


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## crazy (Mar 29, 2019)

mikec142 said:


> The Utah ski areas had gotten a big dumping over the weekend, so there was plenty of powder to be found. Spent the afternoon skiing the Motherlode, Silverlode and McConkey lift. McConkey's Bowl and the areas off that lift were my favorites.  Ate dinner at Wasatch Brew Pub (as per one of your suggestions)...it was perfect for what we were looking for (casual burger and a beer).
> 
> I had dinner this night with a buddy who live in PC at No Name Saloon.  It was okay.  My buddy said, best burger in PC.  I say, good music but the burger was fine at best.  My buddy and his daughter who I was traveling with ate at Shabu and loved it.
> 
> ...



mikec142 thanks for sharing your experiences here! Quoting some selected things that I would like to respond to:

- Make sure to check out the Jupiter area of PCMR next time your're there. It's my favorite part of the mountain. It's probably the most removed part of the resort, and the terrain and snowfall are much more similar to what you would find in BCC than anything else in the Park City area, in fact the snowfall specifically in the Jupiter area isn't far off from what Solitude gets
- No Name does NOT have the best burger in Park City! I don't know who does, but it's not theirs :beer:! High West for one has a MUCH better burger

- No surprise you loved Alta :razz: who doesn't!

- Glad you loved the Canyons. It's a pretty complex mountain to navigate, but it has some super cool terrain, including great steeps, glades, and bump runs. It also has excellent sidecountry if you have the proper experience


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## crazy (Mar 29, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> From the Utah-lovers here (they’re allowed) who promoted Utah here so much, that I gave it a try based on their advice last year… they had me expecting:
> 
> “best in the world” food scene
> “best in the world” wine scene
> ...



I hope this doesn't come off as too condescending, but are you joking? Who the heck told you Utah had "best in the world" for ANY of the categories you posted ? Whoever told you that was either being facetious, is delusional, or you're trolling.

Utah unquestionably HAS all of the above. But "best in the world"? Doubtful. 

- Food scene: Maybe Utah stacks up well compared to other ski towns, but the best food scenes in the US are on the coasts in big cities. Think New Orleans, New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles. You ain't finding the best chefs, best grown food, or anything in Utah. That's not to say that there aren't very nice restaurants in Park City and beyond. They're just not "best in the world" status
- Wine scene: I'm not even going to respond to this
- Brewery scene: Not going to respond to this either, you have to be kidding
- Public transport: Let's be honest, Utah's skiing-related public transport is better than almost anywhere else in the country. You can go from the airport to Alta, Snowbird, Solitude, Brighton, Park City, and Deer Valley all on public transport. But nowhere in the US compared to Europe for public transport, let's be real
- Wide-open terrain *uncrowded *western powder skiing: In what world are ski resorts with the best snow in North America next to a major metropolitan area with cheap direct flights from many major cities not going to be crowded? Check out Sun Valley, Big Sky, Aspen, or a handful of lesser known resorts to avoid crowds.


----------



## kingslug (Mar 30, 2019)

Red Iguana...one..of the best mexican restaurants ive ever been to..thats why its as crowded as a powder day..


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 30, 2019)

Day 1 for me is tomorrow. Report was 21", so I'm pretty psyched given the outlook for this week wasn't the greatest just a handful of days ago. Changes quickly.


----------



## jimk (Mar 30, 2019)

Lots of snow waiting for you from Friday's storm.  Folks hiking up Mt. Baldy 3/30/19, Snowbird, UT:


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## thetrailboss (Mar 31, 2019)

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2019/03/31/ikon-epic-ski-passes-may/


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## jimk (Mar 31, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2019/03/31/ikon-epic-ski-passes-may/
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Thanks for posting.  Good article, but there is an elephant in the room not mentioned.  As long as the vast majority of parking in both canyons is free - the cars will come.  As much as I hate $20 parking fees at Vail, there is a method to that madness.  
I love, we all love, the fact that you can drive up to LCC on a quiet day, park free and close, and get in 2-4 hrs of skiing and go on with your day.  But for those crazy powder days things are broken right now and the fix is going to cost us all.  If they charge big bucks for parking up at the resorts and the buses stay cheap or free, then they'll have to build some big parking garages at the bases of both canyons.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 31, 2019)

jimk said:


> Thanks for posting.  Good article, but there is an elephant in the room not mentioned.  As long as the vast majority of parking in both canyons is free - the cars will come.  As much as I hate $20 parking fees at Vail, there is a method to that madness.
> I love, we all love, the fact that you can drive up to LCC on a quiet day, park free and close, and get in 2-4 hrs of skiing and go on with your day.  But for those crazy powder days things are broken right now and the fix is going to cost us all.  If they charge big bucks for parking up at the resorts and the buses stay cheap or free, then they'll have to build some big parking garages at the bases of both canyons.



Yes.  That is my fear as well.  

Carl Fisher's comments were pretty ridiculous IMHO.  I'm not sure what planet he is on.


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## crazy (Mar 31, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes.  That is my fear as well.
> 
> Carl Fisher's comments were pretty ridiculous IMHO.  I'm not sure what planet he is on.



I can't take him or Save Our Canyons seriously anymore. I agree with a lot of their mission, but they've jumped the shark and gone way too extreme.


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## skiur (Apr 1, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Good write up and helpful, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I wasn’t able to share my tips before you left (actually avoided it so as to not draw more Utah fire), but sounds like you did PC right and called it right:
> 
> ...




HAHAHAHA......If you thought Utah would have the best anything alcohol related then you are just a moron!


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## Teleskier (Apr 1, 2019)

*Timely article on Utah skiing public transit... Third World not 'best in world'*

While some here promoted Utah as having 'best in world' and 'better than NYC' public transit last year before my trip, this local Utah article describes it as: 

"Getting from where you are staying to where you are skiing can be Third World. It feels like Mumbai sometimes.”

Also...

"According to a Ski Utah survey, about 7 percent of ski area visitors use public transit, while 78 percent ride personal or rental vehicles. The rest are overnight guests or arrive in shuttle vans."

Seems people vote with their feet to communicate their view of Utah public transit.

Likewise, others here offered in their "Utah tips" that they use Uber as their pro tip, and these would appear to be in the 78% majority.

While I do encourage others to try to make public transit work (as I did), I'm thinking my one experience seems to line up with this article, sadly. 

Given the large NYC/NJ to Utah "preferred ski holiday connection" in this forum, perhaps it'd be helpful to others here (and to Utah itself) to share tips on how you made their public transit work for you on your ski trip (people in general, not to anyone in specific).

Article: 

Ikon, Epic ski passes may be working too well. They make already-bad traffic in Utah’s Cottonwood Canyons even worse.


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## kingslug (Apr 1, 2019)

Dropping into Main Chute...head up there if you can..its pretty scary fun


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 1, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Carl Fisher's comments were pretty ridiculous IMHO.  I'm not sure what planet he is on.



Save Our Canyons is an eco-extremist group, which, like many other extremist groups lies about what their true intent is in order to effect the change they desire, because they know full-well the general public would be against said change they desire.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 1, 2019)

Snowbasin out Deer Valley's Deer Valley.  That place is posh and empty, a pretty solid combo.  Sadly the 21" of snow got crusted over by sun followed by sub 32 temps, so the off-piste stuff wasnt good, but it was about the best groomer conditions you can find.


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## jaytrem (Apr 1, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Snowbasin out Deer Valley's Deer Valley.



Voted best bathrooms 20 years running!


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## jimk (Apr 1, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Given the large NYC/NJ to Utah "preferred ski holiday connection" in this forum, perhaps it'd be helpful to others here (and to Utah itself) to share tips on how you made their public transit work for you on your ski trip (people in general, not to anyone in specific).
> 
> .[/URL]



I've been primarily using my car or riding with my son to ski Snowbird about 20 days in the last month, but I have used UTA bus three days and it worked fine.  One time I was the last to get on very crowded bus, but glad not to have to wait for another.  I get to ride it free with my Bird season pass.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Snowbasin out Deer Valley's Deer Valley.  That place is posh and empty, a pretty solid combo.  Sadly the 21" of snow got crusted over by sun followed by sub 32 temps, so the off-piste stuff wasnt good, but it was about the best groomer conditions you can find.



Was Strawberry open or was it on money, err, I mean wind hold?


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## abc (Apr 1, 2019)

The solution is pretty obvious. But I as a visitor would love to see it NOT implemented. 

Charge for parking, at least on weekends. Use the money to run frequent buses. Need huge parking down canyon though. 

As a visitor, I don’t mind getting up at crack of dawn on powder days. I’m there to maximize my skiing pleasure after all. I have no chores to run before heading up canyon. the current traffic problem actually help keep the mountain relatively quiet. Imagine the crowd if all the people who wish to get up the canyon actually do get there?

But the locals have the most to gain. It would make the weekend skiing a lot more predictable. On the other hand, they’re the ones who decide they’re fine with the status quote.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 1, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Voted best bathrooms 20 years running!



Yeah, marble bathrooms are a wee-bit over-the-top.



thetrailboss said:


> Was Strawberry open or was it on money, err, I mean wind hold?



It was open, I took 2 or 3 runs on it.  Sister's Bowl was closed for avy fears though.


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## Zand (Apr 1, 2019)

At Snowbird today for a half day...got back to SLC around 11 last night from Jackson (including a stop for dinner) and I just didn't even want to walk this morning nevermind ski. It's in the 40s but for some reason the snow isn't corning up very much even in Mineral. Theres still powder from over the weekend in spots and crud everywhere else...unfortunately it moistened up and it's tough to ski. Groomers are glorious today and that's about all I can handle right now anyway.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 1, 2019)

Zand said:


> Theres still powder from over the weekend in spots and crud everywhere else...unfortunately it moistened up and it's tough to ski. Groomers are glorious today and that's about all I can handle right now anyway.



I was just having lunch at Davanza's and locals skiing Park City today reported the same, said it's variable, groomers are nice, but icy elsewhere.  Supposedly 4" to 10" coming tomorrow into Wednesday morning, so hopefully that happens.


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## kingslug (Apr 1, 2019)

Which skis you on?


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 1, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Which skis you on?



I only brought the Soul 7s as I knew they can pretty much handle anything I'd find out here this time of year unless it all went to **** in a hurry.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2019)

Snowing now at Brighton....


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2019)

A slightly better picture.  It was pretty fine, but still snowing!


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## snoseek (Apr 2, 2019)

Snowing lightly at alta right now. Things should be good by tomorrow afternoon and even better on Wednesday.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 2, 2019)

snoseek said:


> Snowing lightly at alta right now. Things should be good by tomorrow afternoon and even better on Wednesday.



If they get 10" from this, will that be a bad driving scene Wednesday morning, or does it take more than 10" to create traffic chaos?


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## snoseek (Apr 2, 2019)

Be going up the mouth by 745 and you'll be fine. Or just take the bus


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## kingslug (Apr 2, 2019)

Snow tires help...


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 2, 2019)

Snowed lightly most of the day at Deer Valley today, as such, conditions slightly improved as the day went on.  It was elevation dependent though, stayed snow on the mountain, but I'm guessing it was light drizzle in the parking lot as their was no snow on my vehicle.


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## Edd (Apr 4, 2019)

Relevant! It time for Richard Marx to weigh in.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 4, 2019)

Edd said:


> Relevant! It time for Richard Marx to weigh in.
> 
> View attachment 25085



That’s awesome! Lol


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## Zand (Apr 4, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> That’s awesome! Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Hope he never goes to Vermont and gets hungry after 7 pm


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 5, 2019)

Yeah, that ahole's doing 4 nights on Main Street.  Great way for a hasbeen to endear himself with the local populace. FWIW, he's wrong too.  I can think of at least 3 places right on Main Street open past 9pm on a weeknight, and a few off Main as well. What a d-nozzle.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 5, 2019)

For a ski day off, I highly recommend Antelope Island State Park. The place is absolutely beautiful. Plenty of critters too, we saw bison, antelope, mule deer, and countless birds today.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 5, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> For a ski day off, I highly recommend Antelope Island State Park. The place is absolutely beautiful. Plenty of critters too, we saw bison, antelope, mule deer, and countless birds today.



Awesome!


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## Teleskier (Apr 5, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yeah, that ahole's doing 4 nights on Main Street.  Great way for a hasbeen to endear himself with the local populace. FWIW, he's wrong too.  I can think of at least 3 places right on Main Street open past 9pm on a weeknight, and a few off Main as well. What a d-nozzle.



Don't know that guy, but I will say I had the same exact impression as him. For 10-days I sampled a mix of highest-rated tourist spots on Main Street, as well as the more local hangouts out where I was staying. 

You'd be hard-pressed to find much open past 9pm. 'Late' for places was 10pm, even at the most 'happening' hip-for-them spots which IMO weren't all that 'happening'. "Casual cowboy food" and "Boring" are the two words that come to mind.

Whereas despite Zand's joke about Vermont being rural, nonetheless I do know lots of places in Vermont to eat open to midnight, which truly are fun and happening scenes.

At the time, I did feel it was strange that for a city (it's even in Park City's name), it would close earlier than pristine green rural low-population Vermont. 

I chalked it up to being a Utah thing or Mormon thing. 

The general vibe i got was... "everyone goes to bed early here, 'city' or no city." 

Plus, how long does it take to drink one of their kids-sized drinks at the bar anyway? No wonder everyone goes home by 8pm.


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## Skrn (Apr 5, 2019)

I did some quick research to see if it is really true that there is no restaurant open after 9pm. So I opened google map and searched park city restaurant. Then I click into each restaurant to see when they close. With in a minute (I checked 10 restaurants), I found 7 restaurants open past 9pm.

Butchers chop house - open until midnight 
Yulai Yama sushi - open until 10pm
Riverhouse on main - 10pm
No name saloon and grill - 2am
Shabu - 10pm
Cafe terigo - 10pm
The spur bar and grill - 1am

So if that guy cant find an open restaurant past 9pm and had to go to bed hungry, it says more about his intelligence level than anything else.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 5, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Don't know that guy, but I will say I had the same exact impression as him. For 10-days I sampled a mix of highest-rated tourist spots on Main Street, as well as the more local hangouts out where I was staying.
> 
> You'd be hard-pressed to find much open past 9pm. 'Late' for places was 10pm, even at the most 'happening' hip-for-them spots which IMO weren't all that 'happening'. "Casual cowboy food" and "Boring" are the two words that come to mind.



Yes, we know that the public transportation also sucks....



> Whereas despite Zand's joke about Vermont being rural, nonetheless I do know lots of places in Vermont to eat open to midnight, which truly are fun and happening scenes.
> 
> At the time, I did feel it was strange that for a city (it's even in Park City's name), it would close earlier than pristine green rural low-population Vermont.



Newsflash:  Burlington, Stowe, and Killington are not what I consider to be "pristine green rural low-population Vermont," and that's coming from a Vermonter.  Sure, there are places in resort areas and Burlington that are open past 9pm.  But I would not generalize beyond that.


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## Teleskier (Apr 5, 2019)

Here comes the "Utah = best in world" crowd. Yeah, we all know it by now.

Last year was PC has better transport than NYC and Europe.

This year you guys added "PC has better culinary scene than Boston." Out of touch.

Yes, we all know it's best in the world. Waiting for "PC has more places open later than NYC" coming next.

Obviously people are protecting their rentals or something here. It's insane out of touch with reality.

1. Google times are notoriously off. Please walk into the Saloon at 9:30pm and tell me just how good your "world class" meal was.
2. Most of the time in PC you get... "The bar is open until the Google time, but the kitchen closed an hour ago"
3. You look around and don't really blame them... "Yeah, this place looks like it's been empty of diners for a long while. Wow, you folks all eat early out here." 

I'm waiting for "Utah is greener than Vermont" next...


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## thetrailboss (Apr 5, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Here comes the "Utah = best in world" crowd. Yeah, we all know it by now.



So that is not me.  I've never said that at all.  



> This year you guys added "PC has better culinary scene than Boston." Out of touch.
> 
> Yes, we all know it's best in the world. Waiting for "PC has more places open later than NYC" coming next.
> 
> ...



Huh?!  :blink:  What are you smoking?


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## Teleskier (Apr 5, 2019)

And as I remember back, this "kitchen closes early in PC" topic ties in with my primary beef with the poor PC bus transit. 

It took so long for this city transit system (not just from all the unscheduled 'dropping by the next driver's house'/etc) to get me from Canyons to my PC hotel, that by the time I got home HOURS later, and jumped in the shower, every night (using the poor busses again to get me from hotel to downtown), I was in danger of NOT making it to restaurants in time before their kitchens closed ridiculously early. (Ridiculous for a CITY).

DAILY! NIGHTLY! Every single day of my week+ there.

It was routine each night walking into several restaurants, only to hear their kitchen is closed, and then was in a panic walking as fast as I could to the next closest restaurant (this was city, not country), REPEAT. Especially when going to non-tourist local places out where my hotel was. 

"Back late from Canyons yet again, no time for apres, only quick shower, no time for a bus to take me downtown, I'll just WALK to local places near hotel where I don't need to rely on the poor busses." Still found closed kitchen after closed kitchen. 

Even on Main Street, I'd frequently be the last diner in the place. "Cowboys eat early."

It was a nightly occurrence. For me. A daily and nightly annoyance for me. Thus I said, this place is clearly not for me.

I cut a small rural New England ski town slack IF they'd close early (and they don't), but a CITY? PC has more of a 1950's suburban dining time and vibe and cuisine, than a modern city.

Your view may be different, but that guy's experience certainly matches mine to a tee!


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## Skrn (Apr 5, 2019)

Never used PC public transit so I can’t speak for it. After seeing this post, I definitely understand your frustration towards PC. Just curious why you chose to ski canyon (or end the day at canyon) everyday while staying at PC? I remember it takes about 50 minutes (lift plus skiing) to go from one side to another. You lose some skiing time but it surely better than spending hours via bus. Or stick to PC side for a few days, maybe?



Teleskier said:


> And as I remember back, this "kitchen closes early in PC" topic ties in with my primary beef with the poor PC bus transit.
> 
> It took so long for this city transit system (not just from all the unscheduled 'dropping by the next driver's house'/etc) to get me from Canyons to my PC hotel, that by the time I got home HOURS later, and jumped in the shower, every night (using the poor busses again to get me from hotel to downtown), I was in danger of NOT making it to restaurants in time before their kitchens closed ridiculously early. (Ridiculous for a CITY).
> 
> ...


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## Edd (Apr 5, 2019)




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## snoseek (Apr 5, 2019)

First world problems lol.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 5, 2019)

Skrn said:


> I did some quick research to see if it is really true that there is no restaurant open after 9pm. So I opened google map and searched park city restaurant. Then I click into each restaurant to see when they close. With in a minute (I checked 10 restaurants), I found 7 restaurants open past 9pm.
> 
> Butchers chop house - open until midnight
> Yulai Yama sushi - open until 10pm
> ...



Good list.

Without even thinking much, to add to your list, Squatters, Wasatch Brew Pub (where I will be in 45 minutes), and Davanza's are all open past 9pm too.  There's a few out towards Kimaball Junction too, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt he literally meant DT Park City only.  Nevertheless, he's obviously VERY wrong.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 5, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> And as I remember back, this "kitchen closes early in PC" topic ties in with my primary beef with the poor PC bus transit.



You're the Dbag that posted that you would never ski Utah due to the fact it's too Republican and that you are a man of your principles, and giving money to a GOP controlled state like that would be against your principles (whatever the hell that even means).

Approximately 8 months after posting that, you took a ski trip to Utah.   

So, yeah, you're a real peach.


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## Teleskier (Apr 5, 2019)

Skrn said:


> Never used PC public transit so I can’t speak for it. After seeing this post, I definitely understand your frustration towards PC. Just curious why you chose to ski canyon (or end the day at canyon) everyday while staying at PC?



For the marginal conditions I had during that long-pre-planned week, the best snow on the mountain seemed to be over on that Canyons side. The ‘best’ snow there being New England hard pack, the worst being dirt and rocks.

The PC-side seemed to be more windswept, and the Jupiter Peak that locals raved about (and here) had lots of rocks coming through bare spots, skiing through “snow patches,” where it just wasn’t fun (for me). I don’t like gouging my good skis, it’s a “fingernail on a chalkboard” thing for me, where I hate that feeling of Ptex-scoring underneath.

The 99 and Peak5 were slightly better and skied more fun (to me, those days). But the terrain did feel a little limited over and over all day, each day. So I’d get bored off those two short chairs, want some variety, ski some “too short” chutes which were fun but for only 20-seconds, and then endured (what felt like) minutes of cat tracking ravines, to yet once again arrive back at the dreaded, crowded, hellish Tombstone ‘catch all’ chair. For some reason, the farthest-to-the-rightmost trails off Condor at Canyons, had the best (slightly better than marginal) snow despite high winds there too.

Secondarily, the only on-mountain restaurant that served alcohol at lunch for ALL of PC and Canyons, was over on top of one the summits and lifts at Canyons. I got to know the bartenders there, they took care of me as best as they legally could, and truth be told, the best meals of the trip came from that chef. It was the only restaurant in PC that “didn’t suck,” in that while being ‘on-mountain’ expensive, it actually met my expectations with decent enough food. Which none of the Main Street places did. Despite the chef putting out good food from a very limited ‘ski hut’ kitchen. And nice people too. So I kept going back. Good snow. Good beer. Good enough food.

So I’d spend all morning taking lifts from PC to Canyons. That took a long time just traversing lifts. My daily routine became:

Town Lift chair, 
Bonanza chair, 
Do one or two runs off Silverlode chair since I was there,
Take the long traverse over on Quicksilver gondola (many times filled with pot smoke, whether want it or not, much more than CO),
One run off Dreamcatcher chair (sometimes),
Funky vibe Timberline chair that was somewhat fun,
Except it dumps you again at dreaded Tombstone chair and its always-huge crowds,
Ski runs off 99 chair and/or Peak5 chair over and over and over again,
Back to Tombstone chair (sigh),
Up another small chair to lunch, have lunch and cocktail,
Ski runs off Sun Peak chair (seem to remember thinking these were OK too, not world class, but OK)  
ski runs off Condor trails to the right, and…
Now I had a win-less decision to make. 

1) Stop skiing early to reverse the trip by all those multiple chairs & crowds back over to PC. 

Where unlike VT 4pm closing, these lifts closed ridiculously early, so again there was stress and pressure of whether I would make it all the way back over, across all those lifts above, in enough time, before the time that the last lift in the long journey would stop running and leave you stranded (and without apres beer). Hurry, crowds!, rush to next one, crowds!, how are we doing for time, hurry!, rush!, more crowds, is this fourth or fifth lift yet, how many lifts left to go?… etc. 

This took forever, was no fun, and worse, I had to cut the skiing short once I finally made it all the way over to Canyons and had some OK snow.

2) OR - Continue skiing all day to last chair at Canyons, and then take the bus back to PC hotel. This is what won from the middle to the end of the ski week. If I didn't endure the bad bus system, then the entirety of my ski day would have just been traversing all morning to, and afternoon back, on the ski lifts.

Happy memory. One of the few things I enjoyed most at PC, was riding the very aptly and beautifully named Cabriolet standing gondola down to the bus stop. That was unique and fun and cool. It was probably the most enjoyable part of each day’s transit. Not to be missed!

Then came waiting for the busses that never came by the posted schedule, no one knowing why the express bus listed on the schedule suddenly doesn’t come anymore, and rumored to have stopped running earlier in the day (not handling ski rush at mountain closing?), having to walk across busy multi-lane “Rt-9 Natick” in skis and ski boots to inexplicably keep switching to new bus lines just to get to the main destination of PC (‘the city’), suddenly veering off route for trips to friends houses, etc, etc for hours in crowded sweaty ski clothes.

Now you’re late for their very early closing restaurants.

Next day… repeat. Many lifts. Crowds. Hard pack snow. Small weak beers. Hellish sweaty never-ending (actually, “never arriving”) bus rides. Early closing restaurants in a supposed 'city'. Mediocre food. Hope that maybe tomorrow will go better, find new restaurants, search out new trails. No luck. Repeat.

This was very far away from a “world class” ski experience or ski ambience or skier-driven environment. Whereas I have had these, ski trips approaching close to European experiences, even in North America.

Thanks for getting me to remember the Cabriolet. I had forgotten it, as it was always stuck before the hours of sweaty clothes maddeningly inefficiently busses riding home that always came after it. Each day I said “Today’s bus rides will be different,” but never was.


----------



## Teleskier (Apr 5, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> You're the Dbag that posted that you would never ski Utah .. Approximately 8 months after posting that, you took a ski trip to Utah.



Recap of last year:

Me: "You all like Utah so much. I can't envision Utah being that great?"
Utah fanboys: "Nah man, Utah is world class this and world class that, you gotta go man!" 
Me: "OK, I'm new here and don't know you guys yet, but I'll accept your tips, got an EPIC pass, so I'll go check it out"
Me on return: "World class?!? You guys are full of sh*t"
Utah fanboys: "You actually believed us, we were full of sh*t."

For a guy who routinely calls every other person a "dbag", YOU'RE calling others a peach? Too funny. Lemme guess.. NJ?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 5, 2019)

*MAY 11, 2017 (replying to ABC):*



Teleskier said:


> And being new to this FORUM - not COUNTRY as per your jingoistic and wrong (surprise) Trump-like assumption - I was being more polite than direct.
> 
> There was only one of the passes I investigated that contained Utah locations. Furthermore, I had collected a list of the almost 80 destinations that the passes I was investigating went to. And ranked them all. Based on my - yes my - desirability factor for where I'd want to spend my time and money.
> 
> ...



*MARCH 5, 2018 (Just 9 months after self-righteously virtue-signaling how he'd never ski Utah):*


Teleskier said:


> *I just got back last week from my first visit to Utah.
> 
> How bad could it be? *
> 
> ...



Honestly, Dbag is a polite term to use here.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 5, 2019)

Skied Sundance for the first time today, and I really liked the place.  The cabin dining from the top of the mountain had amazing views.  Sundance is low elevation for Utah, so it was full on spring slushy skiing, but I had a great day.

  And a first in my lifetime of skiing, a turkey ran across the trail while I was exiting Pipeline to a cat track called Lone Pine.  Keep in mind, this is an elevation of approximately 7,200 feet, and I had NO idea turkey live that high up.  Mountain turkey, who knew?  And this guy was HUGE, could have fed an entire family.  Bergmann's Law is legit.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 6, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Skied Sundance for the first time today, and I really liked the place.  The cabin dining from the top of the mountain had amazing views.  Sundance is low elevation for Utah, so it was full on spring slushy skiing, but I had a great day.
> 
> And a first in my lifetime of skiing, a turkey ran across the trail while I was exiting Pipeline to a cat track called Lone Pine.  Keep in mind, this is an elevation of approximately 7,200 feet, and I had NO idea turkey live that high up.  Mountain turkey, who knew?  And this guy was HUGE, could have fed an entire family.  Bergmann's Law is legit.



Awesome! A true gem, especially this season!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## FBGM (Apr 6, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> For the marginal conditions I had during that long-pre-planned week, the best snow on the mountain seemed to be over on that Canyons side. The ‘best’ snow there being New England hard pack, the worst being dirt and rocks.
> 
> The PC-side seemed to be more windswept, and the Jupiter Peak that locals raved about (and here) had lots of rocks coming through bare spots, skiing through “snow patches,” where it just wasn’t fun (for me). I don’t like gouging my good skis, it’s a “fingernail on a chalkboard” thing for me, where I hate that feeling of Ptex-scoring underneath.
> 
> ...




I have never heard of someone skiing so wrong in my life. I am now dumber from reading this. I don’t understand how you life.


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## Skrn (Apr 6, 2019)

Looks like you had bad really bad luck with weather. Out of my 20+ days at SLC, it was literally true that the worst day at SLC was better than most days in the east. It is no surprise that you didn’t like Utah skiing.

However, I still feel that there are easy ways to avoid the the bus commute. Rent a car? Uber ski? Uber should take you back to you hotel in 20 minutes including waiting time that cost $12. Park city side is over 3000 acres and have mountain facing different directions, also trees, maybe try a bit harder to find areas protected by wind? Just some thoughts.



Teleskier said:


> For the marginal conditions I had during that long-pre-planned week, the best snow on the mountain seemed to be over on that Canyons side. The ‘best’ snow there being New England hard pack, the worst being dirt and rocks.
> 
> The PC-side seemed to be more windswept, and the Jupiter Peak that locals raved about (and here) had lots of rocks coming through bare spots, skiing through “snow patches,” where it just wasn’t fun (for me). I don’t like gouging my good skis, it’s a “fingernail on a chalkboard” thing for me, where I hate that feeling of Ptex-scoring underneath.
> 
> ...


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 6, 2019)

FBGM said:


> I have never heard of someone skiing so wrong in my life. I am now dumber from reading this. I don’t understand how you life.



And you didn't even mention the fact he goes to Utah & somehow only skis Park City.


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## crazy (Apr 6, 2019)

I suspected earlier that Teleskier was a troll, and now I'm almost sure of it. Teleskier, if you're not trolling, give me a little bit of what you're smoking :beer:!


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## FBGM (Apr 7, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> And you didn't even mention the fact he goes to Utah & somehow only skis Park City.



Seriously. Doing it all wrong. I’ve never heard of a worse trip report that is 100% fault of the person. 

Go back to hunter and ski the best snow on earth there in your blue jeans.


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## Teleskier (Apr 9, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> And you didn't even mention the fact he goes to Utah & somehow only skis Park City.



Please enlighten us all where else one can ski in Utah on an Epic pass.  (Hint: There are none. PC is "it" for Utah). 



FBGM said:


> Seriously. Doing it all wrong. I’ve never heard of a worse trip report that is 100% fault of the person.



Situation#1: Your hotel is in PC. The only skiable snow is all over at Canyons. 

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Situation#2: You want to give PC/Canyons a fair shake, keep finding crap, but you keep exploring for anything 'good' to ski.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Situation#3: Staying PC hotel - you need to meet your wife/friend/someone to ski at Canyons. 

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2019)

Meanwhile back in PC...

https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park-city-police-informed-of-a-couch-burning/


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Zand (Apr 9, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Meanwhile back in PC...
> 
> https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park-city-police-informed-of-a-couch-burning/
> 
> ...



A few years back at Wachusett, a group of people managed to hijack a couch from the lodge, get it on a lift, and brought it up to the top. It sat up there for quite some time, although I'm sure they weren't allowed back to see the fruits of their labor (guessing the lifties were probably told to follow right behind them as they left).


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 9, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> *Please enlighten us all where else one can ski in Utah on an Epic pass.  (Hint: There are none. PC is "it"  *



Q) You fly across country on a week-long western ski trip, and pay for week-long lodging & food, but you're so impoverished that you literally cannot afford to buy a few lift tickets?  

A) No.  You're just penny-wise and pound-foolish.  As FBGM said, worst ski trip planning ever.



Teleskier said:


> *Situation#1: Your hotel is in PC.*



_Situation #1_: Based on your needs & concerns, you'd already failed .



This is seriously getting unbelievable.


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## skiur (Apr 10, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Please enlighten us all where else one can ski in Utah on an Epic pass.  (Hint: There are none. PC is "it" for Utah).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Mama says "Stupid is as stupid does."


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## Teleskier (Apr 10, 2019)

*Yes - “d-bag” and quoting Forrest Gump are surely internationally-recognized symbols*

Yes - “d-bag” and quoting Forrest Gump are surely internationally-recognized symbols of advanced intelligence.



BenedictGomez said:


> Q) You fly across country on a week-long western ski trip, and pay for week-long lodging & food, but you're so impoverished that you literally cannot afford to buy a few lift tickets?
> 
> A) No.  You're just penny-wise and pound-foolish.



If :

buying multiple rival multi-hundred dollar ski passes (EPIC $940 + Ikon $945) each year... and/or
buying TEN individual $125-$170/day Utah ski tickets for individual ski areas at window prices… and/or
being forced to rent a car ... and/or
being forced to use unethical Uber each morning and each night... and/or  
spending your mornings and nights driving between different ski mountains every day... and/or
sleeping in an urban noisy SLC city hotel with no 'ski ambience' so you can drive each day... and/or 
moving to a new slope-side hotel at super-inflated 'luxury' one-night rates each night 
all costing WAY more than abc's "dirt cheap Utah airfare" (food is moot since relatively same per any trip) 

..sound like your ideal ski trip and sound ‘smart’ to you, then more power to you. Utah is your jam.

It is not the norm. 

So basically, what you’re saying here is:

“Don’t stay in PC for food/transit/skiing and don’t ski its one unified ski area.”

In other words, we agree.

> This is seriously getting unbelievable

On this we also agree. I said my piece…


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## thetrailboss (Apr 10, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Yes - “d-bag” and quoting Forrest Gump are surely internationally-recognized symbols of advanced intelligence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seriously, give it up.  :roll:


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## asnowmobiler (Apr 10, 2019)

It’s crazy how someone could take the time and money to plan a trip so poorly just to prove their point. 
I blame Trump for letting people like you stay here.&#55358;&#56608;


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 11, 2019)

asnowmobiler said:


> *It’s crazy how someone could take the time and money to plan a trip so poorly just to prove their point. *



Teleskier's planning a trip to Vermont next year without a rental car, where he'll stay in an AirBNB across the street from Cochran's, and afterward declare skiing in Vermont stinks.


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## kingslug (Apr 11, 2019)

Epic and Mountain collective pass worked out well for me this year. Stowe (always) PC, JH, Snowbird, Sugarbush. Sadly did not get to Alta for the first time in a long time. We stayed in PC but the drive to the Bird is no big deal. Driving around Utah is great compared to East coast...


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## skiur (Apr 11, 2019)

asnowmobiler said:


> It’s crazy how someone could take the time and money to plan a trip so poorly just to prove their point.
> I blame Trump for letting people like you stay here.&#55358;&#56608;



This is why we need to close the border!!!!


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 11, 2019)

kingslug said:


> *Driving around Utah is great compared to East coast*...



It's because they planned their roads intelligently out there with an eye for future growth.  Here we wait until traffic is a nightmare, then add one lane when two lanes are clearly required, etc...


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## kingslug (Apr 11, 2019)

Connecticut..Merritt PKWY....unfix able.


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## cdskier (Apr 11, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Connecticut..Merritt PKWY....unfix able.



Very scenic ride though...as long as you aren't in a rush to get anywhere!


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## drjeff (Apr 11, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Connecticut.....unfix able.



Fixed it for 'ya Kingslug!


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## tumbler (Apr 11, 2019)

The roads here are all much older than Utah's.  By the time planned and designed roads went in they had learned what worked or not.  Plus, probably less environmental regulations...


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## mbedle (Apr 11, 2019)

tumbler said:


> The roads here are all much older than Utah's.  By the time planned and designed roads went in they had learned what worked or not.  Plus, probably less environmental regulations...



I'll add to that the amount of people living in new england compared to Utah...


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## kingslug (Apr 11, 2019)

CT is at least closer to Stowe than Looooong Island.
Wish I was in Utah though..they seem to have gotten a bit of snow.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 11, 2019)

kingslug said:


> *Wish I was in Utah though..they seem to have gotten a bit of snow*.



Yeah, two feet 2 days before I got there, and another 2 feet, 3 days after I leave.


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## crazy (Apr 11, 2019)

Man I love New England, but seeing Alta get over three feet of snow in a mid April storm is killing me a little bit on the inside


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## Teleskier (Apr 12, 2019)

asnowmobiler said:


> It’s crazy how someone could take the time and money to plan a trip so poorly



You guys have not made your case, other than just saying that someone staying in a Park City hotel and skiing at Park City is ‘stupid’ and ‘shows poor planning’. 

Put up or shut up, illustrate how you ‘ski it better’. Otherwise you’re full of crap. 

The closest explanation from Senor Gomez is “don’t ski Park City and instead buy day tickets at all the other Utah areas except PC.”

So he and I agree on the ‘skip Park City’ part.



BenedictGomez said:


> Teleskier's planning a trip to Vermont next year without a rental car, where he'll stay in an AirBNB across the street from Cochran's, and afterward declare skiing in Vermont stinks.



Yeah, let’s look closer at (as you would say) your ‘purposefully trying to be a d-bag’ example.

Do I have to quote all the places in this very forum where the pro-Utah posts rave about PC as world class food and world class transit and world class ski area, etc, etc? Let’s say we ignore all that (which you’re clearly trying to walk away from).






Park City website:

“Park City is the largest ski area in the United States. With over 7,300 acres, 300+ trails, 38 lifts, seven terrain parks, 14 bowls, six natural half pipes, one super pipe and one mini pipe, plus many diverse ski-in/ski-out and village adjacent lodging properties, Park City is an *easily accessible*, *world-class* mountain destination”

There’s that “world class” being used yet again. It’s ubiquitous around town. World class burger to beer to transit.

So one can see that a ski tourist might expect the place to live up to its own self-description of world-class skiing, food, transit, beer, etc, and thus stay in PC hotel w/o car to ski it.






Now let’s look at your Cochran’s description. Oh look, there’s a huge pic of cute smiling toddlers on the front cover page:






*“Cochran's Ski Area
A small, affordable family ski area in Richmond, VT.”*

Let me ask you - which of these two places actually lives up to its own self-description?

So to answer your question: I likely would have a great day at Cochran's. It lived up to its expectations and provided what it advertised. 

Part of the longstanding New England ethic is to call out charlatan hucksters who make false snake oil boasts and are exposed as such.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 12, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> You guys have not made your case, other than just saying that someone staying in a Park City hotel and skiing at Park City is ‘stupid’ and ‘shows poor planning’.
> 
> Put up or shut up, illustrate how you ‘ski it better’. Otherwise you’re full of crap.
> 
> ...



Wow, you really need professional help.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 12, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> *The closest explanation from Senor Gomez is “don’t ski Park City and instead buy day tickets at all the other Utah areas except PC.”
> 
> So he and I agree on the ‘skip Park City’ part.*



Actually, that's not what I said at all, and you completely misunderstood.  I like Park City / Canyons quite a bit.

What I was saying is that if you're flying across continent, paying for a week or more of lodging, and intending to "Ski Utah", but are simultaneously somehow so financially destitute that you cannot afford $250 for a simple rental car, then you should not be staying on the Wasatch Back (i.e. Park City), you should be staying on the Wasatch Front (Sandy, SLC, Cottonwood Heights), etc... This also gets back to how I and others are proclaiming your "trip planning" as some of the worst we've ever seen posted on this forum.

Keep in mind, I've only been to Utah 3 times in my life, so I'm hardly an expert, yet I was able to glean all this from roughly 15 minutes of perusing Google Maps.  Then again, I'm also able to use power tools unsupervised.


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## crazy (Apr 12, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Park City website:
> 
> “Park City is the largest ski area in the United States. With over 7,300 acres, 300+ trails, 38 lifts, seven terrain parks, 14 bowls, six natural half pipes, one super pipe and one mini pipe, plus many diverse ski-in/ski-out and village adjacent lodging properties, Park City is an *easily accessible*, *world-class* mountain destination”
> 
> There’s that “world class” being used yet again. It’s ubiquitous around town. World class burger to beer to transit.



Do you realize that your source for PCMR being "world class" is the PCMR website :grin:? That website was written by their marketing department, just like every other ski resort's website. Frankly, just about any hotel or destination resort anywhere in the world has a fancy website with marketing copy just like what you're quoting from that touts them as the "best" at something. You have to realize that they are selling themselves. If you really wanted to see if PCMR was world class skiing, you would consult a third party source. Same for food ratings, beer ratings, or whatever. Show me some reputable, objective third party sources that are saying that Park City has the best skiing, food, beer, or public transit in the world :beer: HAHA!



BenedictGomez said:


> Actually, that's not what I said at all, and you completely misunderstood.  I like Park City / Canyons quite a bit.
> 
> What I was saying is that if you're flying across continent, paying for a week or more of lodging, and intending to "Ski Utah", but are simultaneously somehow so financially destitute that you cannot afford $250 for a simple rental car, then you should not be staying on the Wasatch Back (i.e. Park City), you should be staying on the Wasatch Front (Sandy, SLC, Cottonwood Heights), etc... This also gets back to how I and others are proclaiming your "trip planning" as some of the worst we've ever seen posted on this forum.
> 
> Keep in mind, I've only been to Utah 3 times in my life, so I'm hardly an expert, yet I was able to glean all this from roughly 15 minutes of perusing Google Maps.  Then again, I'm also able to use power tools unsupervised.



Exactly. I actually like PCMR and DV quite a bit, but I like Alta, Snowbird, Brighton, and Solitude even more. The former are great, the latter are among the best places I've ever skied. And you're right, if you want to save money, you do the Wasatch Front, where you can legitimately take TRAX from the airport to your lodging, and take the ski bus to the resorts, all without renting a car.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 13, 2019)

crazy said:


> *you're right, if you want to save money, you do the Wasatch Front, where you can legitimately take TRAX from the airport to your lodging, and take the ski bus to the resorts, all without renting a car.*



Teleskier's the type who goes on a trip to NYC and eats at Sbarro.


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## ss20 (Apr 13, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Keep in mind, I've only been to Utah 3 times in my life, so I'm hardly an expert, yet I was able to glean all this from roughly 15 minutes of perusing Google Maps.  Then again, I'm also able to use power tools unsupervised.



Comedic GOLD BG!!!


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## Teleskier (Apr 13, 2019)

*Was never a "see Utah" trip, was "explore PC as single city destination" trip*



BenedictGomez said:


> if you're flying across continent, paying for a week or more of lodging, and intending to "Ski Utah



Firstly, thank you for explaining. 

Now I see what you meant, and I also see the disconnect for why we were talking past each other.

Even though I never said that, perhaps I own the mis-impression that I was ever ‘trying to see Utah’. That was never the case. And yes, were that the case, a car would be vital.

My intent from the start was to “ski a new place on my expensive ski pass.” In spring of the prior year, once I committed to EPIC, I listed out all the areas in the world on their pass and picked one. (Some years I pick two or three).

My choice happened to be Park City, based largely on: 

All the forum input here (ie, crowd sourcing, probably the first time it’s ever let me down)
Years of hearing hearsay about Utah snow
Web reviews (can now see how locals calling everything “world-class” would throw me off)
First-ever Park City TV commercials running in Boston showing people actually drinking wine (when I had assumed it was a dry state from the Mormons, turns out I was half right, as a proper drink or proper beer was impossible to find and actually illegal [“no more than 1oz spirits”, etc])  

My intent from the start was to fully see, experience (food, wine, shop, beer) and ski Park City as a sole destination (on my ski pass). Park City - town and ski.

Which I feel I fully did, from skiing every part of the mountain to trying every class of restaurants and bars in every part of town (except I regret I never got over to satellite Deer Valley since I had no faith, that the transit which couldn’t get me around PC proper w/o taking hours, could get me to DV even further away).

I have planned and done trips where I intended to “ski Austria” where I skied 12 pre-planned ski areas and drove all around the country (THAT was “world class”). This was not that kind of trip, it was a single city destination trip.

Now you and I can argue over whether Park City, as the ‘biggest and best known’ ski area in Utah, is a truly representative sample of the overall state. Just like discussions I have with Canadians and Europeans over whether NYC (as ‘biggest and best known’ US city) is truly representative of America, or not. I’d be the first to defend NYC is not Boston just as Hunter is not Vermont.

My experience was 100% Park City. Apart from the alcohol experience which is state-wide Utah laws.





BenedictGomez said:


> Teleskier's the type who goes on a trip to NYC and eats at Sbarro.



The Sbarro thing is too funny, as you couldn’t be more wrong (not that it matters, I’m just some guy on the internet to you, and you’re the same to me).

I come from a wanderlust culture. I travelled a lot as a kid with my family as a core value. Then at 17 I travelled Europe solo for three months - at a time in American culture where this concept literally freaked out all the other parents in my small town. (“How could you LET him go to EUROPE!!” as if that were some horrible place not called Indiana). I’ve been travelling for decades ever since, as a cultural core value. 

Note that my Park City trip planning began a whole year prior. This is indicative of the planning ahead and trip planning I do. I happen to lead group wine trips, ski trips and cycling trips here and in Europe and Asia where I’m actually known for truly getting into places beyond the usual tourist sights. I routinely put together 300-800 page research planning documents for my trips. 

This was never a “see Utah trip,” it was an “explore PC on EPIC” (which is at most, just a slice of Utah) trip.

Again, thanks for sharing, I see the disconnect and understand your car/etc points now.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2019)

Teleskier said:


> Firstly, thank you for explaining.
> 
> Now I see what you meant, and I also see the disconnect for why we were talking past each other.
> 
> ...



The bottom line is that you did not like Park City for a number of reasons.  We got it last year.  No need to beat a dead horse.


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## tekweezle (Apr 13, 2019)

Snowbird/Alta just got 42 Inches of snow in 3 days.   You can't have a bad time when conditions are like that.  Even the taste of mediocre resort cafeteria food is improved.


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## snoseek (Apr 14, 2019)

tekweezle said:


> Snowbird/Alta just got 42 Inches of snow in 3 days.   You can't have a bad time when conditions are like that.  Even the taste of mediocre resort cafeteria food is improved.



That cycle topped out just past 50 inches at alta. Another foot or two coming in now. Yeah the booze thing here is ridiculous....I do know we are maybe gonna get regular beer in stores soon Im told...if all goes well. Also .05 bac seems a little overkill. I dislike the nanny state things but the churches days are numbered and the outdoors is a hell of a consolation prize.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2019)

snoseek said:


> That cycle topped out just past 50 inches at alta. Another foot or two coming in now. Yeah the booze thing here is ridiculous....I do know we are maybe gonna get regular beer in stores soon Im told...if all goes well. Also .05 bac seems a little overkill. I dislike the nanny state things but the churches days are numbered and the outdoors is a hell of a consolation prize.



We'll get regular booze if we are good boys and girls.  :roll:

And wow, today was really nice.  Still snowing up there.  2-3" of fresh that was nice to ski.  Nobody at Alta either....


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