# another accident- Natasha Richardson in critical



## faceplant (Mar 17, 2009)

sure hope she pulls thru-

wife just spotted this-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20090317/en_celeb_eo/104720


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## drjeff (Mar 17, 2009)

with a bit of a wardrobe accident in the picture 

Seriously though hope she'll be O.K.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 17, 2009)

just finished reading the story on the net earlier . Tremblant   can be a tough place this time of year.  Sure hope she's OK.   She apparently was not wearing a helmet according to various accounts i've read


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 17, 2009)

Updated reports claim she was taking a private lesson on a BEGINNER trail ,  she was not wearing helmet even tho Tremblant "encourages"  them . She  fell. said she was originally OK to teh instructor  SP took her down the hill where she apparantly refused treatment then went back to her hotel 

She started feeling bad about an hr later and called 911 -- all of this comes from Tremblant's PR dept


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## drjeff (Mar 17, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Updated reports claim she was taking a private lesson on a BEGINNER trail ,  she was not wearing helmet even tho Tremblant "encourages"  them . She  fell. said she was originally OK to teh instructor  SP took her down the hill where she apparantly refused treatment then went back to her hotel
> 
> She started feeling bad about an hr later and called 911 -- all of this comes from Tremblant's PR dept




Sounds like we'll be hearing closed head injury/concussion in the news reports later


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## hammer (Mar 17, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Updated reports claim she was taking a private lesson on a BEGINNER trail ,  she was not wearing helmet even tho Tremblant "encourages"  them . She  fell. said she was originally OK to teh instructor  SP took her down the hill where she apparantly refused treatment then went back to her hotel
> 
> She started feeling bad about an hr later and called 911 -- all of this comes from Tremblant's PR dept


That's the tough part about head injuries...I remember keeping a close eye on my son after he took a bump to the back of the head after a fall at Wachusett a few weeks ago (he was fine, not even a headache).


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## drjeff (Mar 17, 2009)

Fox news is now reporting that she's being flown from Montreal to New York and is apparently brain dead   Let's hope that's not the case


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## Mildcat (Mar 17, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Fox news is now reporting that she's being flown from Montreal to New York and is apparently brain dead   Let's hope that's not the case



That's what I just read too, they said they're going to take her off of life support when she gets to NY.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 17, 2009)

Mildcat said:


> That's what I just read too, they said they're going to take her off of life support when she gets to NY.



Yes i heard that too but lets hope the story is not factual . The story currently on the  Fox website looks a bit sketchy


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## jrmagic (Mar 17, 2009)

i jsut caught the same update on tv when I walked in from work. Holy crap that sucks.


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## jaywbigred (Mar 17, 2009)

Very very sad. Prayers are with her.


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## Bergamo (Mar 18, 2009)

curious event... beginner trail, with an instructor, on a flat area, according to reports, and maybe brain dead (hope the news wires are just being their jacked-up selves)....ya got to think of the times you did the slam/bang on trails ( I xc ski, sort of ) and got up and continued on.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2009)

Bergamo said:


> curious event... beginner trail, with an instructor, on a flat area, according to reports, and maybe brain dead (hope the news wires are just being their jacked-up selves)....ya got to think of the times you did the slam/bang on trails ( I xc ski, sort of ) and got up and continued on.



Just based on the reports that the instructor suggested rather quickly that she get checked out by the patrol makes me think that it was probably one of those quick, outside edge side slide hooks, where one's head can quickly get whipped to the ground


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## BLESS (Mar 18, 2009)

who is this lady?  I dont know......shes famous?  Either waythe story sucks....prayers to her & her family.


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## 2Planker (Mar 18, 2009)

Sounds like a Sub Dural Hematoma  ---  Bleeding between your skull and brain that compresses the brain...

  My 32 year old cousin died from the same thing.  She was a CardioThoracic Trauma Surgeon, and was hiking w/ 6 other MD's and RN's.  A slip and fall, banging her head on the ground.  No Loss of consciousness or anything....  Then 20 mins later, dizzyness, neasea + and vomiting set in.  By the time they got her to a hospital the intracranial pressure had shut down her breathing, and put her in a coma.  4 days on life support, No EEG activi
  Sad, Very Sad.  

Wear your brain bucket, and don't hesitate to get checked out if you have ANY N/V, or persistent symptoms.   Neuro exam + pupillary responses are a must for even a mild head injury.

(from a 24 year patroller and trauma surgeon)


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## bvibert (Mar 18, 2009)

BLESS said:


> who is this lady?  I dont know......shes famous?  Either waythe story sucks....prayers to her & her family.



She's a British actress and is married to Liam Neeson

(I didn't know either, until I googled her name.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson


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## tekweezle (Mar 18, 2009)

this is tragic.  

i can;t comprehend how this can be fatal.  everything suggests this was a low speed crash that wasn;t violent.  they are very quick to say she was on a beginner trail, taking a lesson which makes me think there is more too this.

did go off trail by accident and hit a tree or an icy snow embankment?  I know someone got killed at Belleyare a few years ago like that.

or did she get run into by someone?


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## mondeo (Mar 18, 2009)

tekweezle said:


> this is tragic.
> 
> i can;t comprehend how this can be fatal. everything suggests this was a low speed crash that wasn;t violent. they are very quick to say she was on a beginner trail, taking a lesson which makes me think there is more too this.
> 
> ...


Probably just a freak accident, caught an edge and went down hard, combined with her head hitting in just the wrong way. One of those things that if she were an inch shorter, going 5% slower, hit a spot on her head an inch away, etc., nothing would've come of it.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 18, 2009)

Tragic  what a sad  situation  ------------------------ lets all be  careful out there  it can happen


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## playoutside (Mar 18, 2009)

Tragic indeed.  Sad reminder to value and enjoy every day.

A doc on the news last night referred to this as a "talk and die" head injury.  He described these as a seemingly minor bump on the head, no loss of consciousness, but then sudden severe headache and nausea which has been caused by blood pooling around the brain.  Said it can strike as quickly as 20 mins to an hour after the accident.

The above sure made me rethink my perspective on the many times I've smacked my head doing something stupid.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2009)

tekweezle said:


> this is tragic.
> 
> i can;t comprehend how this can be fatal.  everything suggests this was a low speed crash that wasn;t violent.  they are very quick to say she was on a beginner trail, taking a lesson which makes me think there is more too this.
> 
> ...



How many times over your snow sliding career have you had that random edge hook (at ANY rate of speed)?? My guess is ALOT.  Happens to everyone and on almost ANY terrain. 

It says on IMDB that she's 5'9" tall, add in ski/boot/binding height, and you're looking at a fall from 6 or so feet for the head onto a solid surface, and if it was on one of those quick edge hook situations, you can see how one can generate some decent speed of impact, even on a beginner slope at presumably a low rate of speed.  As I've said before what really makes me think that it was this type of scenario is the report that the ski instructor *very quickly* suggested that she go and get checked out - could it be a media/legal CYA thing, sure, but something tells me not in this case.

Just sounds like an incredibly unfortunate, but plausable accident scenario.


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## automagp68 (Mar 18, 2009)

Makes me want a helmet for sure.


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## Trekchick (Mar 18, 2009)

Haven't read this whole thread, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating but, it appears that she had a minor tumble, was wearing a helmet, and the impact was not as significant as the actual moving of the brain inside from a jarring.
See this video clip from ABC news.
Ugh. 


http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7109626


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## tekweezle (Mar 18, 2009)

i;ve hit my head on the snow hard enough to have a temporary blackout and see stars.  good thing I was wearing a helmet.

she must have been going faster than they are suggesting.

this is going to be a pr nightmare.


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## SkiDork (Mar 18, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Haven't read this whole thread, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating but, it appears that she had a minor tumble, was wearing a helmet, and the impact was not as significant as the actual moving of the brain inside from a jarring.
> See this video clip from ABC news.
> Ugh.
> 
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7109626





so now they're saying she WAS wearing a helmet?


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## Trekchick (Mar 18, 2009)

I've seen one report that said she was but others that said she was not.
I'm sooooo confused.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2009)

tekweezle said:


> i;ve hit my head on the snow hard enough to have a temporary blackout and see stars.  good thing I was wearing a helmet.
> 
> she must have been going faster than they are suggesting.
> 
> this is going to be a pr nightmare.



The thing is, you DON'T have to be going fast to have something like this happen. Think about it, you hear in the news every now and then about someone fainting/passing out while just standing up and hitting their head on the ground/counter/toilet/etc. and causing a significant head injury.  It's all about what angle your body/head strikes the ground in a fall.


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## mondeo (Mar 18, 2009)

tekweezle said:


> she must have been going faster than they are suggesting.


No. If you catch an edge, your head can hit the ground faster than if your head just dropped from 6 ft up. With the freeze/thaws recently, decent chance it was hardpack/ice. Dropping your head from 6 feet onto ice is more than enough to cause a concussion. Not all that surprising that if you hit your head in a very specific way it would be enough to cause some fairly serious issues.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> I've seen one report that said she was but others that said she was not.
> I'm sooooo confused.



The AP wire feed, which it seems like most of the major networks are using for their story, says that per a statement from the PR person @ Tremblant that she WASN'T wearing a helmet.

CBS's and NBC's version of the story while very similar in most of the text to CNN's, ABC's and Fox's omited the 1 small paragraph with the lack of helmet reference.


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## Trekchick (Mar 18, 2009)

drjeff said:


> The thing is, you DON'T have to be going fast to have something like this happen. Think about it, you hear in the news every now and then about someone fainting/passing out while just standing up and hitting their head on the ground/counter/toilet/etc. and causing a significant head injury.  It's all about what angle your body/head strikes the ground in a fall.


This is the point of the link in my earlier post
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Movies/story?id=7109531&page=1

It seems that her impact was not significant enough to have a single location of impact but was significant enough to "jostle" her brain, sort of like shaken baby syndrome.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> This is the point of the link in my earlier post
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Movies/story?id=7109531&page=1
> 
> It seems that her impact was not significant enough to have a single location of impact but was significant enough to "jostle" her brain, sort of like shaken baby syndrome.



For a very interesting read/hijack - take a glance through the comment section at the end of that article   

This just sounds like the 1 in 1,000,000 scenario fall that caused what appears to be an incredibly awfull outcome


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## billski (Mar 18, 2009)

Sometimes having a helmet doesn't help at all.  In my wife's case, was standing motionless, hit from behind, she went face first into the hardpack.  Nice ride to the hospital with a concussion.  Granted it's the rare case, but nobody seems to know the exact details yet.

I also have a dent in my head from moving a ladder but neglecting to recall the hammer was still atop. Only partially explains my 50 IQ....


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2009)

tekweezle said:


> i;ve hit my head on the snow hard enough to have a temporary blackout and see stars.  good thing I was wearing a helmet.
> 
> she must have been going faster than they are suggesting.
> 
> this is going to be a pr nightmare.



not necessarily, freak accidents do happen at very slow rates of speed.  A couple of my employees at Snowshoe were snowboarding one warm spring day with soft snow.  They were at the flat run out of a green trail heading towards the lift at a very low rate of speed, MAYBE 10 mph, maybe.  One of them caught an edge and fell.  Resulted in a ruptured spleen, 4 days in the hospital and ended his season.  

Hard to truly speculate and really say anything other than it was completely a freak accident. As another poster alerted to earlier in the thread, they lost a family member due to a head injury that most poeple would suspect would only cause a minor bump.


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## arik (Mar 18, 2009)

I am having trouble believing she was seriously injured since she was discharged from the hospital and allowed to fly on an airplane. Head trauma gets a head CT to r/o bleed which I am sure they did, and if it was ok she's probably ok.


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## billski (Mar 18, 2009)

arik said:


> I am having trouble believing she was seriously injured since she was discharged from the hospital and allowed to fly on an airplane. Head trauma gets a head CT to r/o bleed which I am sure they did, and if it was ok she's probably ok.



You can check yourself out of a hospital anytime over a doc/hospital's objections, even if the consequences are potentially fatal.  You have to sign away all liability, but then you're free to go.  Chances are the family decided such, because the either wanted better care and/or closer to home.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2009)

arik said:


> I am having trouble believing she was seriously injured since she was discharged from the hospital and allowed to fly on an airplane. Head trauma gets a head CT to r/o bleed which I am sure they did, and if it was ok she's probably ok.



Chances are when the discharge occurred ALL the damage had been done(and was probably even done by the time she was transferred from the 1st smallish hospital near Tremblant down to the larger facility in Montreal) and it was a move to get her closer to home/family for her final moments.  If it was an actual ongoing could go either way medical situation, your right, as long as that hospital in Montreal had a good neurosurgeon, she'd still be in that hospital.

Brain death can be a very, very, very weird thing, where mechanically the heart is still pumping away like there's nothing wrong, but there can be absolutely no electrical activity in the brain, and hence a "life" as we know it


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## tekweezle (Mar 18, 2009)

the only thing we know is that we don;t all the facts....maybe a witness to the accident will step forward and fill in the details.   taking solely at face value, it is of course possible that everything happened exactly the way it;s been explained.  I just find it just...bizarre....either way, i think I smell a possible wrongful death suit brewing.....which sucks for the entire industry.

anyway, hope it never happens to anyone you know.

2 of my coworkers suffered terrible season ending injuries this season that could have been flukes.  one coworker was boarding at a high rate of speed in vail on a flat trail and caught an edge and cartwheeled and somersaulted spectacularly from what i had heard.  he ended up in the hospital for a week with a bruised kidney and lost some percentage of it.   another was skiing in deer valley, apparently on a trail a little bit too steep for her, caught an edge, ski didn;t release and tore her acl completely-the odd thing is she finished skiing the run.   this past weekend at Belleayre, i wasn;t paying attention on the tomahawk lift  and my ski hit the lift support where the chair came real close to it, and  twisted my ski.  i skied the rest of the day but sometime during the day, it felt like i couldn;t put weight on that leg....


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## billski (Mar 18, 2009)

I can recall reports many of very serious injuries over the years, most of which happened on gentle terrain at low rates of speed.


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## Mildcat (Mar 18, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> This is the point of the link in my earlier post
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Movies/story?id=7109531&page=1
> 
> It seems that her impact was not significant enough to have a single location of impact but was significant enough to "jostle" her brain, sort of like shaken baby syndrome.



The Dr also said it could have been a preexisting condition that could have been triggered by the fall.


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## marcski (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with Bill, many injuries happen at low speeds and on easier terrain. 

As others have intimated, this, unfortunately, sounds like a freak accident.  I know someone who was a healthy, athletic, vibrant man in his late 50's, with a 2nd family and young kids and walked out of a restaurant and tripped over a cement planter on the sidewalk and died from a head injury.      It happens on and off the slopes.


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## Trekchick (Mar 18, 2009)

drjeff said:


> For a very interesting read/hijack - take a glance through the comment section at the end of that article
> 
> This just sounds like the 1 in 1,000,000 scenario fall that caused what appears to be an incredibly awfull outcome


I thought I linked the video that was a part of the article.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7109626
This makes it seem much freakier than imagined.
I'm deeply saddened by this.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2009)

RIP Natasha 

prayers to Liam and their two boys


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## marcski (Mar 18, 2009)

Very sad indeed.


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## arik (Mar 18, 2009)

Subarachnoid hemmorhage?


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## Stache (Mar 18, 2009)

Prayers for peace and strength to all involved.
I keep feeling for the Instructor.
No doubt with a celeb it was a senior Certified Pro.
How many beginners have we watched tumble, fall down, go boom, and get up to carry on.
This time???
I hope the Instructor returns to the line soon.


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## faceplant (Mar 18, 2009)

RIP-
what a terible loss

prayers to Liam & there boys


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## bigbog (Mar 18, 2009)

*....sad..*

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102038499


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## Glenn (Mar 19, 2009)

I feel for the family. I can't even imagine. Everything seems fine, then off to the hospital and it just gets worse. How tragic.


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## Jisch (Mar 19, 2009)

Very sad. 

It makes the two nights I didn't sleep when my son had his two concussions worth it in retrospect. I hope that's the lesson here - keep an eye on anyone who has hit their head. The wrong lesson would be that people shouldn't ski because it's dangerous. 

I wonder if this will increase the pressure for helmet use? I can imagine mountains insisting on helmet use for anyone in a lesson in the near future.

John


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## bvibert (Mar 19, 2009)

Very sad indeed.  Sounds like a tragic, freak accident.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 19, 2009)

Jisch said:


> I wonder if this will increase the pressure for helmet use? I can imagine mountains insisting on helmet use for anyone in a lesson in the near future.
> 
> John



I hope not.  Coming from somebody who sells helmets, and has worn a helmet for every run(except for 2) since they were 10 years old, I do not want them mandatory.


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## Bumpsis (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm wondering if there were some predesposing medical conditions that gravely aggrevated whatever trauma she did sustain. If so, a helmet might not have helped her much. A brain will still get shaken up by an inpact regardless of how it is encased.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 19, 2009)

I can imagine a celebrity led helmet campaign mounting as we speak  >

So sad what should have been a great great day at a beautiful place  with her boys enjoying nature's bounty turned into such a tragedy.  May her family be given the strength it will need to carry on .


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## automagp68 (Mar 19, 2009)

May she Rest in Peace
And may we all have a fun and Safe Rest of the season


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## MichaelJ (Mar 19, 2009)

Bumpsis said:


> I'm wondering if there were some predesposing medical conditions that gravely aggrevated whatever trauma she did sustain.



I've read speculation that the fall may have been a symptom of such a problem, not the cause. Only the autopsy will tell for sure. Regardless of the real cause, regardless of famous star vs. ordinary person, it's very sad.


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## SkiDork (Mar 19, 2009)

Jisch said:


> I can imagine mountains insisting on helmet use for anyone in a lesson in the near future.



I think this will most likely happen as well.


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## MichaelJ (Mar 19, 2009)

It's official - from the New York ME's office:



> The cause of death was “epidural hematoma due to blunt impact to the head.”


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## SkiDork (Mar 19, 2009)

uphillklimber said:


> A brain will still get shaken up by an inpact regardless of how it is encased.
> 
> I kinda don't feel like that is true. I have occasions where I have fallen, similar to previous falls and the helet takes the brunt of the impact and cushions it and spreads the impact over a greater area. In other words, as I'm falling, I'm thinking this is gonna hurt, bad. And it doesn't, with a helmet on. For kicks, try hitting your head into the back cushion of your couch, now do it against your latched door or chimney at the same speed and force. The cushioning effect has some benefits.



ski helmets DO NOT cushion (althought I wish they would especially when my head gets knocked by the chairlift bar).  THey only spread impact.


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## mondeo (Mar 19, 2009)

SkiDork said:


> ski helmets DO NOT cushion (althought I wish they would especially when my head gets knocked by the chairlift bar). THey only spread impact.


They do both. Any deformation of the plastic or foam is a cushioning action. It feels pretty stiff because going softer actually reduces the amount of cushioning for impacts where you really need it.


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## SkiDork (Mar 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> They do both. Any deformation of the plastic or foam is a cushioning action. It feels pretty stiff because going softer actually reduces the amount of cushioning for impacts where you really need it.



Interesting.  THanks for the info.


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## SkiDork (Mar 19, 2009)

uphillklimber said:


> ski helmets DO NOT cushion (althought I wish they would especially when my head gets knocked by the chairlift bar). THey only spread impact.
> 
> Really?? What do you call that squishy stuff in the helmet I can squish down?




mine isn't squishy at all.  It's very hard styrofoam.  I can't depress it with even a hard fingerpress.  Like I said, I wish mine cushioned more because if I hit it with something it freakin HURTS!!@!  I have a G10 Gyro.

But Mondeo basically set me straight.  Apparently it needs to be hard so it cushions on HARD impacts.


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## mondeo (Mar 19, 2009)

SkiDork said:


> Apparently it needs to be hard so it cushions on HARD impacts.


Just some further explanation on this, in case some might find it interesting. Basically, foams are a bunch of baloons fit together. Squeeze a little, they compress some, and then go back to their orignal shape when you let go. Squeeze harder, a few of the weaker ones will burst, and only the ones that don't burst return to their original form - resulting in a depression in the foam.

So think about placing a baloon on your forehead and then slamming your head into a wall. If you do it lightly, the baloon will feel nice and soft, and won't burst. A little harder, the baloon will burst, but will have taken enough of the energy that the impact with the wall won't be as bad. But if you hit your head against the wall with a force comparable to dropping your head, say, from 5 feet in the air, the baloon will burst and your head hits the wall pretty hard.

Now try the mental experiment with a basketball. At the level that the baloon feels nice and soft, the basketball is unforgiving and uncomfortable. But at the extreme end, the basketball is pretty firm but has enough give to make the impact less severe than with a baloon that pops instantly.

For any specific scenario, the ideal foam is just soft enough that the last little baloon bursts at the very end of the impact. The foam in the helmet is probably selected so that it will start deforming when it needs to decelerate a head at 15g's or above, or something like that (where there's a risk of brain damage.) So, disregarding the interaction between head and body, with an 8lb head, the foam needs to resist 120 pouds spread out over a typical contact area with the head, without deforming.

Incidentally, in college I designed the crush zone for a Formula SAE car. We ended up using a foam originally designed for nuclear material transport containers. The stuff was stiff enough that you could stand on a fairly small piece of it without leaving a mark. As a result, I have some experience engineering foam impact attenuators.


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## Stache (Mar 19, 2009)

Talking about Bicycle helmets but all helmets pretty much work the same.

Good for a single absorbtion of the impact by sacrificing the foam. Once squashed that area of foam will not spring back and protect you there again.

http://www.helmets.org/general.htm


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## bigbog (Mar 19, 2009)

*....*

Marker's M3 cushions on the outside and the additional pads work on the very inside...it is still rather rigid inside...would like to have a full layer that's softer ...next to the skull, then it seems like it would be a great helmet.  It would be larger, but not by much... Softer pads are stuck onto the rigid rim....would like to have a whole layer of the soft stuff...as in whitewater helmets.   Guess maybe the physics dictate otherwise...but a WW helmet sure feels safer, even though the slightly older ones don't cover the ears as much as the newest ones...= look much the same as some of the newest skiing helmets seen in the mags...
$.01


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## mondeo (Mar 19, 2009)

Stache said:


> Talking about Bicycle helmets but all helmets pretty much work the same.
> 
> Good for a single absorbtion of the impact by sacrificing the foam. Once squashed that area of foam will not spring back and protect you there again.
> 
> http://www.helmets.org/general.htm


 
Good read.


bigbog said:


> Marker's M3 cushions on the outside and the additional pads work on the very inside...it is still rather rigid inside...would like to have a full layer that's softer ...next to the skull, then it seems like it would be a great helmet. It would be larger, but not by much... Softer pads are stuck onto the rigid rim....would like to have a whole layer of the soft stuff...as in whitewater helmets. Guess maybe the physics dictate otherwise...but a WW helmet sure feels safer, even though the slightly older ones don't cover the ears as much as the newest ones...= look much the same as some of the newest skiing helmets seen in the mags...
> $.01


 
As the longer explanation linked above mentioned, it's a tradeoff. Adding a layer of softer foam/fabric/whatever would not hurt the impact absorption as long as you kept the stiffer layer just as thick, but you'd then have to make the helmet that much thicker to compensate. You could protect against harder impacts by having thicker rigid foam, but again, larger helmet. Same thickness, make the foam more rigid, increase the chance for minor injuries but protect against death better. Everything's a trade-off.


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## faceplant (Mar 19, 2009)

Could a Helmet Have Saved Natasha Richardson?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599188611500


40 min ride to hospital-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090320..._richardson;_ylt=AhFG57qI4BWUsQJWhRzN9iIDW7oF


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## SkiDork (Mar 20, 2009)

mondeo, why can't they have another layer inside the hard foam thats softer?  This way the soft layer can handle the lower speed impacts and make it nice and comfy.  Then when you have a higher speed impact, you're through the softer layer and the hard layer goes to work.


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## catskills (Mar 20, 2009)

When ski patrol, EMT, or Paramedic says go to the hospital then *go to the damn hospital*.   

Yes we all should wear a helmet.  Helmet may have saved Natasha.   Emphasis on "may".  Getting a helicopter ride to a level 1 trauma center hospital would have had a much better chance of saving Natasha's  life. As a ski patroller and EMT-B I have to work way to hard sometimes to convince people they really need to go to the hospital.  Sometimes I try every trick I have learned over 11 years and its still not enough.  This is when I let some other health care provider try their bag of tricks of convincing the patient they need additional medical care.  

The medical examiner ruled her death an accident, and doctors said she might have survived had she received immediate treatment. However, nearly four hours elapsed between her lethal fall and her admission to a hospital.

End of discussion. Now lets celebrate Natasha's life.


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## mondeo (Mar 20, 2009)

SkiDork said:


> mondeo, why can't they have another layer inside the hard foam thats softer? This way the soft layer can handle the lower speed impacts and make it nice and comfy. Then when you have a higher speed impact, you're through the softer layer and the hard layer goes to work.


They could, but it's a question of whether consumers are willing to accept the additional size (probably at least an additional quarter inch layer) and cost. Foam is out, because it'll get destroyed pretty quickly if it's absorbing all the little impacts. A gel might work.


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## SkiDork (Mar 20, 2009)

mondeo said:


> They could, but it's a question of whether consumers are willing to accept the additional size (probably at least an additional quarter inch layer) and cost. Foam is out, because it'll get destroyed pretty quickly if it's absorbing all the little impacts. A gel might work.




yeah - that sounds great.  I'd definitely buy a helmet like that.  Thanks.


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## Jisch (Mar 20, 2009)

In the local paper there was an article about Natasha's death. There was a sidebar about Canada requiring helmets on the slopes. Apparently it was an intiative that was re-ignited with this incident.

John


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 20, 2009)

Helmets should be required!!!!


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## mondeo (Mar 20, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Helmets should be required!!!!


And while you're at it, outlaw smoking and alcohol (while keeping pot illegal,) drop the national speed limit to 30, make all scissors, pencils, etc, the same kind you give kindergarteners, ...

Actually, put everyone in an individual padded cell, have robots farm what's nutrionally necessary, and no one actually does anything. That'll reduce physical risks like nothing else!


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## thorski (Mar 20, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Helmets should be required!!!!



Madness.


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## 2knees (Mar 20, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Helmets should be required!!!!



you make me think birth control should be required.


it was there.  sorry.


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## Stache (Mar 20, 2009)

Hey, you could be asleep in bed, in your house south of Buffalo,NY or Lockerbie Scotland and a plane could fall out of the sky and KILL you.


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## 2Planker (Mar 20, 2009)

catskills said:


> When ski patrol, EMT, or Paramedic says go to the hospital then *go to the damn hospital*.
> 
> Yes we all should wear a helmet.  Helmet may have saved Natasha.   Emphasis on "may".  Getting a helicopter ride to a level 1 trauma center hospital would have had a much better chance of saving Natasha's  life. As a ski patroller and EMT-B I have to work way to hard sometimes to convince people they really need to go to the hospital.  Sometimes I try every trick I have learned over 11 years and its still not enough.  This is when I let some other health care provider try their bag of tricks of convincing the patient they need additional medical care.
> 
> ...





As a 25+ year NSP patroller and a Trauma Surgeon all I can say is People don't always listen, and sign themselves out AMA - Against Medical Advice....


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## kingslug (Mar 21, 2009)

Well it looks like Liam wants to sue Tremblant...because somebody has to pay...might as well be them. Unreal!


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 21, 2009)

kingslug said:


> Well it looks like Liam wants to sue Tremblant...because somebody has to pay...might as well be them. Unreal!



are you shitting me..


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## deadheadskier (Mar 21, 2009)

kingslug said:


> Well it looks like Liam wants to sue Tremblant...because somebody has to pay...might as well be them. Unreal!



link?


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## kingslug (Mar 21, 2009)

Don't know. One of the guys at work was reading a paper and said it.....so I will call it an unconfirmed rumor.........we shall see.


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## Trekchick (Mar 22, 2009)

kingslug said:


> Well it looks like Liam wants to sue Tremblant...because somebody has to pay...might as well be them. Unreal!





kingslug said:


> Don't know. One of the guys at work was reading a paper and said it.....so I will call it an unconfirmed rumor.........we shall see.


I have heard the opposite, either way, this is early in the game and rumours are flying.  Lets do our best to not fuel unfounded rumours.

This is a time of great loss for that family.  I can't imagine that anyone in that circle is thinking clearly at the moment.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 22, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> I have heard the opposite, either way, this is early in the game and rumours are flying.  Lets do our best to not fuel unfounded rumours.
> 
> This is a time of great loss for that family.  I can't imagine that anyone in that circle is thinking clearly at the moment.



 Good advice Trek !   i 'm sure this is some one running off at the mouth at coffee break !

I tried looking for evidence of this when i first read it yesterday  -NONE found thru google or other search mechanisms


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## hammer (Mar 26, 2009)

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I found this story on CNN to be interesting...sure makes me think about all the times that me or someone in my family has taken a bump on the head...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/26/head.injury.emergency/index.html


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## bosrocker51 (Feb 7, 2010)

What a sad accident. I was at Loon that day. It was warm. I bet she caught the outside edge of her downhill ski & hit her head on the snow. The Patrol did everything right. 

In retrospect, she would have needed to be airlifted to Montreal immediately after the accident, and she was still lucid at that point. Local hospitals were not capable of handling the head injury she had.
Such a shame.


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