# On mountain etiquette



## uphillklimber (Jan 9, 2012)

x


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## wa-loaf (Jan 9, 2012)

How boring would that be to ski the same turn all the way down the trail for your convenience? I mix up my turns short to wider radius, decide maybe the other side of the trail looks better and move over. As the over taking skiing it's your job to watch out for me. I do take a quick glance if I'm going to cross over, but if you are traveling fast I might not see you.

The dude sitting under the rise deserves to have his head taken off ...


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## skidbump (Jan 9, 2012)

I do it just to screw with General public


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## hammer (Jan 9, 2012)

I should not have to ski any particular way to please those above me.

That said, I do try to avoid cutting all the way over to the sides of a trail...I realize that many times the faster/more capable skiers like to play there.  When I do ski on the edges of the trail I work on my short turns...

My peeve lately has been with kids followed by parents...the kid cuts right across to one side of the trail and I'm struggling to get around him/her without going between the kid and the parent.  The parent (who is closer to the _other_ side of the trail) doesn't appreciate it when I have to go between them.


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## Cheese (Jan 9, 2012)

I've been on both sides of this one.

If I'm the lead skier trying to drag an elbow I will look up the hill for a clearing before starting, but then use the whole trail if I desire to lay down monster arcs.  As you noticed, the turn shapes aren't always predictable.  Worse than that, if I'm trying to bleed a little speed my turn may actually take me back up the hill.

On the other hand I've been the one trying to take a steeper fall line angle and felt the wind of the trees as I got pinched up against them while passing a slower skier.

Two ideas work for me.

First, I suck up my pride, stop and let the lead skier get ahead of me so I no longer need to pass.  This obviously doesn't work if there are many more uphill skiers that will crowd your trajectory even worse if you stop.

Second, I think of it like passing an automobile on the street.  I don't want to be tailgating when I'm about to pass.  It's more efficient to back off, accelerate in the same lane, pull out already faster than the victim and execute a quick pass.  The longer a pass takes, the more dangerous it is to all parties involved.

Snowboarders are notorious for sitting in blind spots.  I always instructed skiers to stop where they could see uphill since that meant other skiers could see them as well.  The careless boarders either never learned this or they look uphill to check for visibility then sit down and forget they're now much shorter.  The kicker of this is it's probably another boarder who will go for air on the lip they're hiding under.


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## jrmagic (Jan 9, 2012)

The code is the code is the code. That said if I am downhill I try not to do something erratic if I can hear others skiing near me.


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## gmcunni (Jan 9, 2012)

i'm a timid skier. i find i check over my shoulder any time i "change lanes" when skiing.


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## oakapple (Jan 9, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I wonder do people drive like this? Do they just drift right over 3 lanes on the highway with even a look over their shoulder? Being downhill does not give absolute right of way. You're supposed to look uphill when starting out, and at some point you do not have the right to ski directly into someone with out even looking where you are going. Or am I wrong on this?


Well, the comparison of skiing to driving is not really apt. Drivers have rear-view and side-view mirrors; skiers don't. That's why drivers are supposed to look for traffic behind them before changing lanes, but skiers are not.

And skis are just a lot harder to steer, as the terrain is far less predictable, and you don't have a machine helping you do the work. Cars are capable of much finer, more precise control, than skis.

In general, I think most of the people who make those wide or sudden turns on skis, are doing so because that's what they need to remain upright, not because they are rude or oblivious to their surroundings. Of course, there are exceptions, just as there are drivers who drive selfishly while remaining technically within the rules.


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## jrmagic (Jan 9, 2012)

oakapple said:


> Well, the comparison of skiing to driving is not really apt. Drivers have rear-view and side-view mirrors; skiers don't. That's why drivers are supposed to look for traffic behind them before changing lanes, but skiers are not.
> 
> And skis are just a lot harder to steer, as the terrain is far less predictable, and you don't have a machine helping you do the work. Cars are capable of much finer, more precise control, than skis.
> 
> In general, I think most of the people who make those wide or sudden turns on skis, are doing so because that's what they need to remain upright, not because they are rude or oblivious to their surroundings. Of course, there are exceptions, just as there are drivers who drive selfishly while remaining technically within the rules.




I disagree. Some may be trying to avert a fall but most times when I see this, its someone looking to hit a different line or a jump or move to a spot where their friends have stopped etc.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 9, 2012)

wa-loaf said:


> *The dude* sitting under the rise deserves to have his head taken off ...



I find that "the dude" is always a 13 - 17 year old snowboarder.  

And I loathe him.


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## 57stevey (Jan 9, 2012)

wa-loaf said:


> How boring would that be to ski the same turn all the way down the trail for your convenience? I mix up my turns short to wider radius, decide maybe the other side of the trail looks better and move over. As the over taking skiing it's your job to watch out for me. I do take a quick glance if I'm going to cross over, but if you are traveling fast I might not see you.
> 
> The dude sitting under the rise deserves to have his head taken off ...



This, and this.


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## billski (Jan 9, 2012)

On highways the greatest risk of accidents occurs when there is a large differential in speeds.  Ditto in skiing.  An 30mph skier really shouldn't be on the same slope at a 2mph skier.  I'll find another trail if that happens.  If I can't, rather than try to out-run  them, I'll sit back and wait for it to clear.  If it never clears, I'm on the wrong trail.  Don't go skiing at Otis ridge if downhill racing is your thing.

You want our sport to survive?  Don't go blowing past a beginner, you're likely to freak them out and crash.  There goes another paying customer!  Your liberties should not impinge on my liberties.

Note to self.  Consumers may use Tasers in Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont.  Go on, make my day.  :angry:


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## riverc0il (Jan 9, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> Do they just drift right over 3 lanes on the highway with even a look over their shoulder? Being downhill does not give absolute right of way.


Actually, yes it does. Unless starting out from a stop, downhill skier always has the right of way and is under no obligation to "look over their shoulder" even if it might be a good idea. I don't have this problem at all. If someone is skiing erratically, I stop and let them get ahead of me or I pass quickly and decisively. I also avoid resorts which have lower levels of skiers/riders and more yahoos and traffic. Your problem is not one that I ever experience except at very  rare appearances at the major resorts during their busy times when you can't just stop to get a clear trail because there are always skiers everywhere.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 9, 2012)

It's only a Sunday River thing...:blink:


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## oakapple (Jan 9, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I gotta disagree with the mirrors comparison. Way back when I took drivers ed, I was instructed that we could use the mirrors, but we are required to turn our head and look backwards before changing lanes. Mirrors are good, but drivers still need to actually look.


I was taught that too, but in that case the quick look back is just confirming what your mirrors already told you (in case there is a blindspot). Skiers don't have the mirror at all.



uphillklimber said:


> Typically, I avoid all learning areas, as I can still remember how a faster skier scare the bejeebers out of me.


I think most of us avoid learning areas, but many mountains are laid out in such a way that green trails have a dual use as beginner trails and transit routes to more interesting terrain.

And this year, I'm seeing a lot of people snowplowing on black diamonds. Maybe they were always there, but I am noticing them more often.


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## MadPadraic (Jan 9, 2012)

On hard pack days i stick to the edges of the trails and am guilty of crossing the entire trail in search of a softer surface. That being said, I always wait for the opportune moment. In heavy traffic, I keep my turns much more uniform...it is good etiquette. 

Two major pet peeves: 1) some parents, but most instructors don't seem to look up hill before starting their group. 2) the very fast skiers/boarders who buzz those who are clearly uncomfortable and making erratic turns. Typically they don't collide, but I've certainly seen edges caught as a result of being buzzed.


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## legalskier (Jan 9, 2012)

I try to stick to the Code but with a healthy dose of common sense. So when I change lanes I always glance uphill even though I have the right of way. Call me pragmatic- I'd rather live to ski another day than stand on principle. If a lane changer is below me I proceed with caution, always ready for a quick hockey stop. The only time I open the throttle completely is when I'm satisfied it's safe, usually on a wide open cruiser. 
I dial down the speed when approaching a rise where I can't see the other side. In grade school a classmate's brother made the mistake of standing below a small "cliff" that people were jumping from and took a ski pole to the head. No helmet of course, only racers used them back in the day. Yes it was dumb but he didn't "deserve it."



oakapple said:


> And this year, I'm seeing a lot of people snowplowing on black diamonds. Maybe they were always there, but I am noticing them more often.



Me too, except they're really little kids...on double blacks...that they can't handle....with a parent.  :dunce:


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## TropicTundR (Jan 9, 2012)

*What I do*

Patience is something I've learned while skiing, I've practiced three bits below:

1) Stay at pace or slower than skiers in front of you.
2) Stop, Breathe and let skiers by till mountain has cleared a bit.
3) Crouch with poles outstretched at knees and flapping all the while singing "Bird, Bird Bird is the word"

To pull off 3) you must start singing it as soon as you come off the lift. It also keeps snowboarders off with their Kamikaze Suprise attacks.


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## thinnmann (Jan 9, 2012)

*In the bumps....*

Running into other skiers bothers me more on bumped up runs than on flat fast runs.

On mogul runs I am more aware of where I am in relationship to other skiers.  I don't want to mess up somebody's great bump run.

I also _*don't*_ want those people that have no business being on that run messing up my line.  They usually have rental equipment of one kind or another, no helmet, and a bandanna over their face because they saw Shaun White on TV once.


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## Nick (Jan 9, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I agree it's boring to stay just here.
> 
> I like to meander all over the place, but that is always after a look uphill. I never feel I have the right to cut anyone off. And besides, what do my rights matter when my bones are breaking. To me, it is about self preservation.



I'm almost always skiing faster than most people so I very rarely have someone overtake me. It actually takes a lot of concentration for me to slow down and just enjoy the turns. So I normally feel comfortable using the entire breadth of a trail.


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## mlctvt (Jan 9, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I gotta disagree with the mirrors comparison. Way back when I took drivers ed, I was instructed that we could use the mirrors, but we are required to turn our head and look backwards before changing lanes. Mirrors are good, but drivers still need to actually look.



Your instructor wasn't too good. He/she should have shown you how to adjust your mirrors to avoid blind spots. 

You actually turn your head around and look behind you before changing lanes when driving? I find that hard to believe.


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## legalskier (Jan 9, 2012)

thinnmann said:


> I also want those people that have no business being on that run messing up my line.



You do?


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## marcski (Jan 9, 2012)

oakapple said:


> Cars are capable of much finer, more precise control, than skis.



I disagree.  It depends on the skier (and/or the driver for that matter).  No car can handle a GS course like Ted Ligety can on skis?

With that said...the rules of the road are completely different than the "skier's code"...


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## vdk03 (Jan 10, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> Your instructor wasn't too good. He/she should have shown you how to adjust your mirrors to avoid blind spots.
> 
> You actually turn your head around and look behind you before changing lanes when driving? I find that hard to believe.



Even properly adjusted mirrors can leave blind spots. I am surprised to hear that you don't look over your shoulder when changing lanes. A casual glance over the shoulder is a must in my opinion.


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## hammer (Jan 10, 2012)

vdk03 said:


> Even properly adjusted mirrors can leave blind spots. I am surprised to hear that you don't look over your shoulder when changing lanes. A casual glance over the shoulder is a must in my opinion.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 10, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> Your instructor wasn't too good. He/she should have shown you how to adjust your mirrors to avoid blind spots.
> 
> You actually turn your head around and look behind you before changing lanes when driving? I find that hard to believe.



Usually agree with you, but you are way off on this one.


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## oakapple (Jan 10, 2012)

oakapple said:


> Cars are capable of much finer, more precise control, than skis.
> 
> 
> marcski said:
> ...


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## gmcunni (Jan 10, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> You actually turn your head around and look behind you before changing lanes when driving? I find that hard to believe.



i was taught to look over my shoulders when changing lanes.  i check my mirrors and then do a quick head check.after 30 years of driving i do this without really thinking.


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## mlctvt (Jan 10, 2012)

wa-loaf said:


> Usually agree with you, but you are way off on this one.



Let me clarify-
When merging onto the highway or when lanes are merging in like entrance ramps or highways that merge together I always look over my shoulder before changing lanes. But not when just driving on a 2-3 lane highway there's no need in that situation. Contrary to what others say you will have no blindspots if your mirrors are adjusted correctly. I've never seen a car that has blindspots if the mirrors are adjusted correctly. So I can tell where every car is always by looking in my mirrors. I'm contantly checking mirrors when driving , looking way ahead and way back too,  I always know where everyone is around me.


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## St. Bear (Jan 10, 2012)

vdk03 said:


> Even properly adjusted mirrors can leave blind spots. I am surprised to hear that you don't look over your shoulder when changing lanes. A casual glance over the shoulder is a must in my opinion.



Properly adjusted mirrors leaves the blind spot where a car is least likely to be driving, which is directly next to the car.  If you can see any part of your own car, or the dotted line, in your rear view mirrors, you're doing it wrong, because that's where your blind spot should be.


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## Nick (Jan 10, 2012)

vdk03 said:


> Even properly adjusted mirrors can leave blind spots. I am surprised to hear that you don't look over your shoulder when changing lanes. A casual glance over the shoulder is a must in my opinion.



I always check over the shoulder. I learned that when I first got my license after changing lanes and having someone lay on the horn after the mirror showed all clear. Whoops!


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## Nick (Jan 10, 2012)

PS, I think the safest thing to do when merging onto a highway is come to a full and complete stop on the on-ramp, and then accelerating as slowly as possible. 

:flame:


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## hammer (Jan 10, 2012)

Nick said:


> I always check over the shoulder. I learned that when I first got my license after changing lanes and having someone lay on the horn after the mirror showed all clear. Whoops!


We had a close call on Sunday...in the right lane, checked the mirror and saw one car pulling to the left, watched the car go by, went to move to the left and forgot to look over the shoulder...and we almost got close up and personal to a second car that also pulled into the left lane and was tailgating the first car.


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## Nick (Jan 10, 2012)

I should say also that it's not a full head turn. Just a glance to see if there is something directly beside me.


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## mlctvt (Jan 10, 2012)

Nick said:


> PS, I think the safest thing to do when merging onto a highway is come to a full and complete stop on the on-ramp, and then accelerating as slowly as possible.
> 
> :flame:



lol-
This is epidemic the last few years. What is it with people who do not get up to the speed of the traffic they are merging into. Didn't their driving instructor stress this? So many people do this now that nobody wants to drive in the right lane any more. 
I see performance sedans entering the highway at less than 40mph. Then a mile or two down they road they go by me at 80+mph. I don't get it.


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## 2knees (Jan 10, 2012)

I was just reading a thread on kzone about someone's son getting run over at killington.  That is my biggest fear, not getting creamed myself but someone hitting one of my kids.  We were up at killington over New years and with the limited terrain open, Rams Head was pretty crowded.  I had 3 kids by myself that day and with the fog and the fact that easy street was not open from the top, you had to take a short blue to get to it, it was pretty hairy.  I tried to act as a blocker for the kids but basically, it was a free for all for that one stretch.  Not sure what you can really do to minimize the risk of impacts when you are talking about little kids cause we all know how well they listen to adults...  Basically, i let them take 5 runs or so and then suggested hot chocolate to get them out of there.  Sometimes, i think it just isnt worth the risk.


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## drjeff (Jan 10, 2012)

2knees said:


> I was just reading a thread on kzone about someone's son getting run over at killington.  That is my biggest fear, not getting creamed myself but someone hitting one of my kids.  We were up at killington over New years and with the limited terrain open, Rams Head was pretty crowded.  I had 3 kids by myself that day and with the fog and the fact that easy street was not open from the top, you had to take a short blue to get to it, it was pretty hairy.  I tried to act as a blocker for the kids but basically, it was a free for all for that one stretch.  Not sure what you can really do to minimize the risk of impacts when you are talking about little kids cause we all know how well they listen to adults...  Basically, i let them take 5 runs or so and then suggested hot chocolate to get them out of there.  Sometimes, i think it just isnt worth the risk.



Being with ones kids REALLY does give a different perspective about on hill etiquette!  Same goes if you're on the hill with a beginner/low intermediate, and you yourself hasn't been in that situation for years and years.  You so quickly forget how intimidating someone passing close by at a speed faster than you (and it doesn't even have to be a "Mach 2" type speed) can be.


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## nycskier (Jan 10, 2012)

BE LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find that this works wonders. When I see someone weaving I usually make some noise to let them know I'm behind them. And yes I'm the guy who yells at the idiots sitting or stopping in the middle of a ski run. I know not everybody skis as much as me so sometimes they are the ones who dont know the code. Be loud. Yell if you have to. Tell people who are skiing or acting in a way that could get you hurt to beaware. Its better to get a nasty look from someone than to have them drift into you and cause a collision.


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## SkiDork (Jan 10, 2012)

My Suburbans always had big blind spots, head turning was mandatory.  My new 2011 has blind spot sensors in the mirrors, which light up yellow when somebody is in your blind spot.  The yellow flashes if you signal on that side.  Very cool, no more head turning needed.

I always look uphill when starting out from a stop, or when changing lanes on the slop.  Might have to do with my age...


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## C-Rex (Jan 10, 2012)

I try to look out behind me as much as possible but like the code says downhill guy has right of way.  As a snowboarder I get annoyed the most when people (skiers or snowboarders) make unpredictable turns or just take up the whole trail on flatter trails or in a place where I need to carry some speed to make it to the next decline.  I hate having to unstrap and skate because some ass cut in front of me and I had to put on the brakes.  Yes it's my responsibility to avoid them but a little courtesy would be nice.

I've tried yelling "On your right" or "On your left" to let people know which side I'm going to pass on but it doesn't work like in mountain biking.  Most people just think you're being a dick and get mad, or they're wearing headphones and can't hear me, or have no idea what it means and turn IN the direction I say instead of AWAY.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 10, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> I've tried yelling "On your right" or "On your left" to let people know which side I'm going to pass on but it doesn't work like in mountain biking.  Most people just think you're being a dick and get mad, or they're wearing headphones and can't hear me, or have no idea what it means and turn IN the direction I say instead of AWAY.



People will look to where the noise is coming from. The body follows the head so they will turn in that direction.


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## Nick (Jan 10, 2012)

That's where ventriloquism comes in handy


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## SkiFanE (Jan 10, 2012)

SkiDork said:


> My Suburbans always had big blind spots, head turning was mandatory.  My new 2011 has blind spot sensors in the mirrors, which light up yellow when somebody is in your blind spot.  The yellow flashes if you signal on that side.  Very cool, no more head turning needed.
> 
> I always look uphill when starting out from a stop, or when changing lanes on the slop.  Might have to do with my age...




Can't believe you gave up head turning while driving.  I would never trust any type of car computer.  Glad to know this, will be more careful of these vehicles, they already think they own the road, now they'll just move blindly and god forbid I'm in the lane next to them with my small car...and maybe the damn computer sensor didn't see me because my car is silver and maybe the sun shined off of it wrong and blinded your sensor and didn't warn you and you just move into my lane with your 8k pound vehicle.  I'm sure they'll have some upgrade to the onboard computer after you crush me and someone realizes there was a bug in the software in recognizing silver cars in sunlight.  Smart...real smart.  Sorry...off my soapbox...but this really bugs me.


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## vdk03 (Jan 10, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> I try to look out behind me as much as possible but like the code says downhill guy has right of way.  As a snowboarder I get annoyed the most when people (skiers or snowboarders) make unpredictable turns or just take up the whole trail on flatter trails or in a place where I need to carry some speed to make it to the next decline.  I hate having to unstrap and skate because some ass cut in front of me and I had to put on the brakes.  Yes it's my responsibility to avoid them but a little courtesy would be nice.
> 
> I've tried yelling "On your right" or "On your left" to let people know which side I'm going to pass on but it doesn't work like in mountain biking.  Most people just think you're being a dick and get mad, or they're wearing headphones and can't hear me, or have no idea what it means and turn IN the direction I say instead of AWAY.



I do this a lot, one thing that makes me a little uneasy is passing a skier on a flat that is pushing wildly with their poles. You know the type that is being aggressive to the point where he/she looks dangerous to be around. The last thing I want is to take a pole to the head, so I find an "on your left" to be pretty helpful.


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## SkiDork (Jan 10, 2012)

SkiFanE said:


> Can't believe you gave up head turning while driving.  I would never trust any type of car computer.  Glad to know this, will be more careful of these vehicles, they already think they own the road, now they'll just move blindly and god forbid I'm in the lane next to them with my small car...and maybe the damn computer sensor didn't see me because my car is silver and maybe the sun shined off of it wrong and blinded your sensor and didn't warn you and you just move into my lane with your 8k pound vehicle.  I'm sure they'll have some upgrade to the onboard computer after you crush me and someone realizes there was a bug in the software in recognizing silver cars in sunlight.  Smart...real smart.  Sorry...off my soapbox...but this really bugs me.



Believe me, I tested it thoroughly before I started trusting them, as I was quite skeptical as you are.  My conclusion is (at least for the Suburban) they're more reliable than a head turn, because in the Suburban there is still a blind stop even with the head turn.  That blind spot (especially on the passenger side) always perturbed me about the vehicle.

But its OK, you're entitled to your opinion.  I'm at K pretty much every weekend if you'd like to meet up I can demo it for you.


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## hammer (Jan 10, 2012)

SkiDork said:


> My Suburbans always had big blind spots, head turning was mandatory.  My new 2011 has blind spot sensors in the mirrors, which light up yellow when somebody is in your blind spot.  The yellow flashes if you signal on that side.  Very cool, no more head turning needed.
> 
> I always look uphill when starting out from a stop, or when changing lanes on the slop.  Might have to do with my age...


Don't have the BLIS (Blind Spot Info System) on my Volvo but a loaner car I drove once had it.  Worked well but when I kept getting the light driving home on a crowded I-93 I temporarily shut it off.

I like the system, but it's no replacement for actually looking over your shoulder.


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## SkiFanE (Jan 10, 2012)

SkiDork said:


> Believe me, I tested it thoroughly before I started trusting them, as I was quite skeptical as you are.  My conclusion is (at least for the Suburban) they're more reliable than a head turn, because in the Suburban there is still a blind stop even with the head turn.  That blind spot (especially on the passenger side) always perturbed me about the vehicle.
> 
> But its OK, you're entitled to your opinion.  I'm at K pretty much every weekend if you'd like to meet up I can demo it for you.



Tested it thoroughly?  Yeah...sure.  I have a blind spot in my small vehicle too, no car is immune.  But your vehicle would crush 50% of the other cars out there...so I DO think you need to be more cautious.  Nothing wrong with a head turn AND relying on the computer, if that's too strenuous for you, let someone else drive.  Seriously...think of others on the road, not just yourself.


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## SkiDork (Jan 10, 2012)

SkiFanE said:


> Tested it thoroughly?  Yeah...sure.  I have a blind spot in my small vehicle too, no car is immune.  But your vehicle would crush 50% of the other cars out there...so I DO think you need to be more cautious.  Nothing wrong with a head turn AND relying on the computer, if that's too strenuous for you, let someone else drive.  Seriously...think of others on the road, not just yourself.




Thanks.


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## gmcunni (Jan 10, 2012)

SkiFanE said:


> Tested it thoroughly?  Yeah...sure.  I have a blind spot in my small vehicle too, no car is immune.  But your vehicle would crush 50% of the other cars out there...so I DO think you need to be more cautious.  Nothing wrong with a head turn AND relying on the computer, if that's too strenuous for you, let someone else drive.  Seriously...think of others on the road, not just yourself.



or you could not drive in the other car's blind spot.


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## Black Phantom (Jan 10, 2012)




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## SIKSKIER (Jan 10, 2012)

*I'm releasing a little stress*

Wow! 2 things from me.Very few skiers ever pass me except with my buddies while were cranking hard and very aware of each other.Lots of fun.
2nd,pet peeve of mine is people who turn their heads around to look while driving at highway speeds.You should almost never need to turn around while driving at speed..EVER! If you need to then you are totally unaware of the others cars around you.You should always be scanning your mirrors and know where cars coming up on you and falling behind you are reletive to you and your closing/departing speed.Pass a car and then get your butt back in the right lane where you belong (insert Mass plates here)and you'll find you almost never need to worry about other cars except in that left lane.And while were at it if you would get off peoples asses then you would not need to constantly brake.
AAAHHH
Boy that felt good!!!


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## SkiFanE (Jan 10, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> or you could not drive in the other car's blind spot.



That's why I thanked him for this information, I will be careful now.  Cut off by these monsters all the time.


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## hammer (Jan 10, 2012)

SIKSKIER said:


> You should almost never need to turn around while driving at speed..EVER! If you need to then you are totally unaware of the others cars around you.


I call BS on this one.  You can check your mirrors all you want but all it takes is for someone else to suddenly do the unexpected and he/she can be in your blind spot.

Please read my earlier post...mirrors checked, thought we had SA, still almost pulled into someone.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 10, 2012)

http://nylawthoughts.com/2011/01/07/changing-lanes-and-the-accidents-that-develop/


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## wa-loaf (Jan 10, 2012)




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## mlctvt (Jan 10, 2012)

It seems people on this site don't know how to properly adjust their mirrors. 
There will be no blind spots in any car if done correctly. As a performance driving instructor I've driven dozens of makes and model cars and I've yet found one where I could not adjust the mirrors so that all views overlap. 

Follow this and then check your car. 

http://www.allstate.com/insurance-i...t-mirrors-to-avoid-blind-spots-800464901.aspx

Since I know many people don't adjust their mirrors properly I never hang out in the area that would be a blind spot if mirrors aren't adjusted correctly.


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## Smellytele (Jan 10, 2012)

Big time scope creep on this thread...


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## St. Bear (Jan 10, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> It seems people on this site don't know how to properly adjust their mirrors.
> There will be no blind spots in any car if done correctly. As a performance driving instructor I've driven dozens of makes and model cars and I've yet found one where I could not adjust the mirrors so that all views overlap.
> 
> Follow this and then check your car.
> ...



This will still give you blind spots, they'll just be tight against your car, so you don't have to worry about a car being there when you change lanes.


----------



## Kerovick (Jan 11, 2012)

As someone said earlier, the code is the code.  If your overtaking the down hill skier it is your responsibility to avoid them no matter if they are making short turns or going from side to side (or both).


----------



## Black Phantom (Jan 11, 2012)

Kerovick said:


> As someone said earlier, the code is the code.  If your overtaking the down hill skier it is your responsibility to avoid them no matter if they are making short turns or going from side to side (or both).



Yo Kid Rock!   How goes the 'Bago?  Any movement with that rig yet?


----------



## Madroch (Jan 11, 2012)

Kerovick said:


> As someone said earlier, the code is the code.  If your overtaking the down hill skier it is your responsibility to avoid them no matter if they are making short turns or going from side to side (or both).



This^^^  Most frightening day of my skiing career watching a racer making huge GS turns at high speed plow into my daughter--who was not even going side to side but relatively straight-- she is fine.... but the code is the code.  Note-- this accident was probably equally caused by violating the code and the limited terrain and decisions to train racers on lower intermediate trails due to such limited terrain.


----------



## Kerovick (Jan 11, 2012)

Black Phantom said:


> Yo Kid Rock!   How goes the 'Bago?  Any movement with that rig yet?



Nope, just in a holding pattern waiting for winter to come visit southern PA.


----------



## Black Phantom (Jan 11, 2012)

Kerovick said:


> Nope, just in a holding pattern waiting for winter to come visit southern PA.



Any further thoughts or action on the kegerator? 

Hopefully you'll get some snow soon!


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 18, 2012)

code violation @ 2:12


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 18, 2012)

damn G.  You've gotten pretty good at jibbing


----------



## Nick (Jan 18, 2012)

Smellytele said:


> Big time scope creep on this thread...



Are you a project manager


----------



## Tooth (Jan 18, 2012)

I always tell people sitting in a bad spot on the trail to move. Always. I dont stop and do it though. I ride a bit down and signal them to get going and explain that they could get really hurt sitting there. As for passing someone downhill of you its tough sometimes. Gotta go by only when its safe. I make alot of noise on my board to let them know I'm coming. I talk to them when they can hear me. "On your left". I hate riding when I feel like someone is going to hit me or my family. I played football at Ohio State and I am always ready to lay the wood down if someone gets too close. Good old linebacker days.


----------



## billski (Jan 18, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> lol-
> This is epidemic the last few years. What is it with people who do not get up to the speed of the traffic they are merging into. Didn't their driving instructor stress this? So many people do this now that nobody wants to drive in the right lane any more.
> I see performance sedans entering the highway at less than 40mph. Then a mile or two down they road they go by me at 80+mph. I don't get it.



There seems to be this notion that the rightmost lane is the acceleration & deceleration lane.  It's not just slow to get on, but braking in the travel lane when preparing to exit.  A lot of this comes down to the concept of a) yield and b) impeding the flow of traffic in a travel lane.  Fundamentally it's another form of selfish behavior.  How often do people say "excuse me" as they shove past you.   Ah automobiles, the great social equalizer.  
Back on-topic now


----------



## billski (Jan 18, 2012)

Back on topic.

Probably the worst boarder/skier interaction is that most people don't understand is that the boarder's back side is his blind side.  A skier/boarder should always overtake a downhill boarder on his front site. It's a little hard when two boarders are on the same stance.  I've seen a lot of accidents because of this.  I'm guilty of this, but am trying to rehabilitate myself.

I also try to shout "left" or "right" when I'm overtaking a person.  Problem is that I often confuse his left with my left


----------



## darent (Jan 18, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> Your instructor wasn't too good. He/she should have shown you how to adjust your mirrors to avoid blind spots.
> 
> You actually turn your head around and look behind you before changing lanes when driving? I find that hard to believe.



I have to agree here,If you know how to adjust your mirrors you eliminate blind spots. most people for some reason think they must see the side of their car in the mirror, thus they never learn to trust the mirror.


----------



## Harvey (Jan 18, 2012)

I agree with those who have said it changes the game to have kids and ski with them.  

My wife and I ski one ahead and one behind our 5-year-old daughter. The skier ahead determines the line and the skier behind (me) is there to absorb impacts.

This past weekend I had the fantastic experience of taking my 5-year-old daughter to the summit of Gore for the first time.  There is some nice blue terrain up there, but the (borderline) blue trail that accesses it is tight, double fall line and high traffic.

We made wide turns and used 3/4 of the width of the trail to control our speed.  Young riders flew by us the whole way down, and I was much more concerned about that, then the pitch or any icy patches.

Maybe we were a hazard. Still, it's my mountain too, we skied as safely as we could and I felt we had every right to be there. The code is the code. The system breaks down if you start making exceptions to it.


----------



## Cheese (Jan 19, 2012)

billski said:


> Back on topic.
> 
> I also try to shout "left" or "right" when I'm overtaking a person.  Problem is that I often confuse his left with my left



You can tap your poles behind you as you're passing too.  Old school, but it's still quite effective.


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 19, 2012)

Cheese said:


> You can tap your poles behind you as you're passing too.  Old school, but it's still quite effective.



bleeding off some speed with a skid as you approach works too - slows you down for a safer pass and the sound alerts the skier ahead to your presence.


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## Cheese (Jan 19, 2012)

darent said:


> I have to agree here,If you know how to adjust your mirrors you eliminate blind spots. most people for some reason think they must see the side of their car in the mirror, thus they never learn to trust the mirror.



Adjust your mirror to the *optimum* location.  Take a roll of painters tape and put an "X" on your headrest.  Now go behind and to the left of your car and follow the "X" in your mirror.  Move side to side and front to back and you'll eventually find a spot where you can no longer see the "X" on your headrest.  There's your proof that blind spots are not a myth.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 19, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> bleeding off some speed with a skid as you approach works too - slows you down for a safer pass and the sound alerts the skier ahead to your presence.



That is of course asuming that the person your trying to pass doesn't have ear buds in with the tunes a blaring and can hear your attempt to notfity them!

I wonder in how many collision situations these days that one or both parties involved have some music playing either via ear buds or integrated helmet speakers??  And i'd betting that there's been a couple of collisions caused by folks paying more attention to a friend that they're filming with their GoPro vs. paying attention to where they're going.

I'm thinking that just like distracted driving is the cause for many accidents that distracted skiing/boarding has an increased incidence of accidents too


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## C-Rex (Jan 19, 2012)

This probably falls under lift line etiquette, but that counts as on mountain, right?

Over this past holiday weekend I was reminded of one of my biggest pet peeves:  People bumping the tips of their skis (or board) into the tail of my board in the lift line.  Of course, this will happen by accident once in a while, but when someone bumps me every time we move it gets really annoying.  I'm not standing there to help them stop.  I pay good, hard earned money for my boards, I don't need some oblivious ass chipping the top sheet off the tail because he doesn't care about his own stuff. 

I'm also getting really sick of ski patrol and other mountain employees talking to me like I'm their kid because I'm a snowboarder.  I had 2 run-ins at Sunapee last weekend.  

First time, the guy was cool.  We were going a little too fast down a beginner trail and he stopped us in the lift line to ask us to slow down in those areas.  He explained that, being a holiday weekend, there are a lot of beginners out and they get spooked when we fly by.  He was polite and reasonable.  So in return, we were polite and reasonable.  We apologized and told him we'd avoid the greens and slow down when we were on them.  And we did.   

Later in the day, I was in the lift line at the park.  I was telling my cousing a story about a guy sliding on his butt down one of those wavy boxes, and i was using the word "ass" to describe it.  An instructor in line next to me leaned over and said, "You mean he was sliding on his behind?"  I looked at him and the little girl he was with, realized my mistake (I do have a horrble potty-mouth) and agreed with him by saying, "Oh, yeah. That's what I meant."  He then replied with, "I wasn't asking a question, it didn't need an answer."  in a rude tone.  Not necessary.  That attitude made me want to go into a swear filled rant.  He probably thought I was just punk park rat.  I'm not.  And even if I was, being a jerk to me isn't going to get me to listen to him.  It might just make things worse. 

It was funny though, after he said it, he skied away with the little girl.  My cousin turns to me and says rather loudly, "What an ass."  The guy threw him the dirtiest look over his shoulder.


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## SkiDork (Jan 19, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> An instructor in line next to me leaned over and said, "You mean he was sliding on his behind?"



Certainly sounds like a question to me...


----------



## Ski the Moguls (Jan 20, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> . . .
> I'm also getting really sick of ski patrol and other mountain employees talking to me like I'm their kid because I'm a snowboarder.  I had 2 run-ins at Sunapee last weekend.
> 
> First time, the guy was cool.  We were going a little too fast down a beginner trail and he stopped us in the lift line to ask us to slow down in those areas.  He explained that, being a holiday weekend, there are a lot of beginners out and they get spooked when we fly by.  He was polite and reasonable.  So in return, we were polite and reasonable.  We apologized and told him we'd avoid the greens and slow down when we were on them.  And we did.
> ...


This is hysterical. You were going too fast on a beginner trail and got talked to. Then you used foul language in front of a little girl and got talked to again. Then your friend loudly calls an instructor an ass. Wow, I just cannot believe they talk down to you like some kid. :roll: Dude, it ain't the board that is bringing you the heat. Just behave yourself next time and they will leave you alone.


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## C-Rex (Jan 24, 2012)

Ski the Moguls said:


> This is hysterical. You were going too fast on a beginner trail and got talked to. Then you used foul language in front of a little girl and got talked to again. Then your friend loudly calls an instructor an ass. Wow, I just cannot believe they talk down to you like some kid. :roll: Dude, it ain't the board that is bringing you the heat. Just behave yourself next time and they will leave you alone.




I was using the two stories as a comparison.  I admit I was in the wrong in both instances.  My point is that when the guy who was reasonable talked to us, we considered what he had to say, apologized and changed our behavior accordingly.  

When the other guy talked to me like I was his kid or something, it just pissed me off and caused me to react defensively and immaturely.  I'm not saying it's right, but like they say, respect gets respect.  Plus, it's not like I went off on an Andrew Dice Clay style rant.  I said "ass".  Not a big deal.  There was no reason for him to talk down to me like that.


----------



## Black Phantom (Jan 24, 2012)

C-Rex said:


> I was using the two stories as a comparison.  I admit I was in the wrong in both instances.  My point is that when the guy who was reasonable talked to us, we considered what he had to say, apologized and changed our behavior accordingly.
> 
> When the other guy talked to me like I was his kid or something, it just pissed me off and caused me to react defensively and immaturely.  I'm not saying it's right, but like they say, respect gets respect.  Plus, it's not like I went off on an Andrew Dice Clay style rant.  I said "ass".  Not a big deal.  There was no reason for him to talk down to me like that.



Does this happen frequently?


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm with C-Rex on this one

Mountains in the winter are the appropriate place for children to learn a couple new words here and there

It's one thing if you're on the T-Bar Bunny Slope swearing your ass off, drinking beers out in the open and smoking pot in front of kids..

but otherwise this is America


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## C-Rex (Jan 24, 2012)

Black Phantom said:


> Does this happen frequently?



no, but i'm bored at work so why not make a big deal out of something small to pass the time?


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## 2knees (Jan 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> but otherwise this is America




Home of the vulgar and land of the obscene.


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## darent (Jan 24, 2012)

Cheese said:


> Adjust your mirror to the *optimum* location.  Take a roll of painters tape and put an "X" on your headrest.  Now go behind and to the left of your car and follow the "X" in your mirror.  Move side to side and front to back and you'll eventually find a spot where you can no longer see the "X" on your headrest.  There's your proof that blind spots are not a myth.



Ican see the car coming up in my mirror. when the car is no longer in my mirror it is right beside me, it goes from my mirror to my eye,  why would I want to see a X on my headrest, is my headrest going to wreck me., what happens when you turn your head and the guy in front brakes, or some one changes lanes in front of you with your head turned. the mirrors have worked for me for 45 years with a clean driving record, they work for me. everyone has their own driving comfort level, if it works for you then do it.


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## AdironRider (Jan 24, 2012)

The instructor is in no position to get on a high horse cause some guy in the liftline said the word ass. That kid is going to learn that word regardless. Instructor just looks like the douche he most likely is.


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## billski (Jan 24, 2012)

Please say "incoming!" when you are destined to hit the downhill skier.  JUST KIDDING!


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## billski (Jan 24, 2012)

Do not tangle with these guys from Blue Mountain.  
Patrol uses radar.  I'd hate to have them rescue a crying child!







C'mon, smile dudes!


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## gmcunni (Jan 24, 2012)

billski said:


> Do not tangle with these guys from Blue Mountain.
> Patrol uses radar.  I'd hate to have them rescue a crying child!
> 
> 
> ...



i do miss the stories about the Blue ski patrol.


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## Ski the Moguls (Jan 25, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> I'm with C-Rex on this one
> 
> Mountains in the winter are the appropriate place for children to learn a couple new words here and there
> 
> ...



I am not sure how you are "with C-Rex on this one" since he already said he was wrong to use foul language in front of a little girl.

The only people I know that think it is okay to talk that way in front of other people's young children are people that have never had young children of their own. So I guess I will just have write your comment off to youthful ignorance. But please remember that ski slopes are public places. If you would not want me to say a certain word to _your_ grandmother, or little sister, then please do not risk saying that same word in front of mine. Thanks.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 25, 2012)

Ski the Moguls said:


> I am not sure how you are "with C-Rex on this one" since he already said he was wrong to use foul language in front of a little girl.
> 
> The only people I know that think it is okay to talk that way in front of other people's young children are people that have never had young children of their own. So I guess I will just have write your comment off to youthful ignorance. But please remember that ski slopes are public places. If you would not want me to say a certain word to _your_ grandmother, or little sister, then please do not risk saying that same word in front of mine. Thanks.



There are certain words that are offensive in any situation. Like I am not going to start saying "****" or "nigger" or "bitch" or anything sexual or racially offensive.

But saying "ass" or "shit" or "damn it!" ?? Come on , your kids can handle it. They're gonna hear it at some point anyway


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## 2knees (Jan 25, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> There are certain words that are offensive in any situation. Like I am not going to start saying "****" or "nigger" or "bitch" or anything sexual or racially offensive.
> 
> But saying "ass" or "shit" or "damn it!" ?? Come on , your kids can handle it. They're gonna hear it at some point anyway



lol, dont hold back on the opportunity to drop some of your favorite words.  You always have the excuse of context on this one.


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## 2knees (Jan 25, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> i do miss the stories about the Blue ski patrol.



I still love the redhead.


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## Black Phantom (Jan 25, 2012)

2knees said:


> I still love the redhead.



I bet she's dirty.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 25, 2012)

2knees said:


> I still love the redhead.



Never watched the show, but she looks pretty good in that pic.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 25, 2012)

Kerovick said:


> As someone said earlier, the code is the code.  If your overtaking the down hill skier it is your responsibility to avoid them no matter if they are making short turns or going from side to side (or both).



The code, may be the code, but physics still says that it will hurt.  You may be in the right, but you may also be thinking this as you lay in a hospital bed.

When I took the class to get my boating license I was taught how the smaller boat has the right away.  But your dingy, WILL lose to a cruise ship in a collision, so there are exceptions.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 25, 2012)

billski;682734
I also try to shout "left" or "right" when I'm overtaking a person.  Problem is that I often confuse his left with my left :([/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Unless they are skiing switch, then their left will always be your left.


----------



## Kerovick (Jan 25, 2012)

Hawkshot99 said:


> The code, may be the code, but physics still says that it will hurt.  You may be in the right, but you may also be thinking this as you lay in a hospital bed.
> 
> When I took the class to get my boating license I was taught how the smaller boat has the right away.  But your dingy, WILL lose to a cruise ship in a collision, so there are exceptions.



If you are unable to avoid contact with the down hill skier, you are not skiing in control.

But yes, I conceed your point.


----------



## C-Rex (Jan 26, 2012)

Black Phantom said:


> I bet she's dirty.



Fact:  Gingers do it better. They don't have souls to get in the way of making immoral decisions.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 26, 2012)

Hawkshot99 said:


> When I took the class to get my boating license I was taught how the smaller boat has the right away.


Not to get off topic but that *is not* one of the rules of the road. What kind of boating license did you get? I have a 100 ton masters.


----------



## jrmagic (Jan 26, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Not to get off topic but that *is not* one of the rules of the road. What kind of boating license did you get? I have a 100 ton masters.



Agreed! This is a case where size does not matter:razz:

From the CG Online Navigation Center site http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent

Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels 

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

     (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iiii) a sailing vessel.

     (b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

     (c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

     (d) (i) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.

(ii) A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular caution having full regard to her special condition. [Intl] 

     (e/d) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.

     (f) (i) A WIG craft shall, when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface, keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their navigation;

(ii) a WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 26, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Not to get off topic but that *is not* one of the rules of the road. What kind of boating license did you get? I have a 100 ton masters.



You are correct.  My mind is not really into boating in the winter. But the thought of not playing chicken with a big ship still stands.


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## jrmagic (Jan 26, 2012)

Hawkshot99 said:


> You are correct.  My mind is not really into boating in the winter. But the thought of not playing chicken with a big ship still stands.



Absolutely!


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 26, 2012)

LOL, They should add this to the skiers responsibility code.

Rule 13 - Overtaking 

     (a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules [of Part B, Sections I and II / 4 through 18], any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

     (b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights.

     (c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

     (d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.


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## Cheese (Jan 26, 2012)

I follow the Skiers Responsibility Code to the written word unless ....






































... it's a *POWDER DAY*!  Then there are no guarantees my pass will be courteous, fore warned or safe.  All you can be sure of is there will be a loud phuquin' "Yooo Hooo" once I've stolen it from you.


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2012)

witnessed a major code violation this past weekend.

narrow bumped up trail, steep at the top but a flatish runout.

first skier down, skinny guy - good skier, takes off and is killing it down thru the bumps of the steep section.  2nd guy, not so skinny but well dressed, takes off after him.  i'd estimate a "safe" 20 yards behind the first guy.  From what i could see the 2nd guy wasn't as good a skier as the first and i think after hitting a couple of bumps 1/2 way down the steep section got a little in the back seat and lost a bit of control.

it looked like it was going to be fine, tho the 2nd skier closed the gap of distance to 10 yards, maybe less,  the 2nd skier was back and to the right of the first guy.  suddenly and without warning the 1st skier stopped short (which he as every right to do) and his stop took him slightly to the right.  the 2nd guy had no chance, was going too fast to react and basically plowed the 1st guy over.  2nd guy wrapped him up like he was tackling a runner on the football field.

scary few seconds while they sorted it out but both guys were OK.  the "victim" had one of his ski poles bent  to a 135 degree angle while the "assailant" ended up with a ripped jacket and a sore rib. (he took the pole to the gut causing the bend and the tear)

had ski patrol witnessed the incident i'm sure the 2nd guy would have had his ticket pulled.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 5, 2012)

I think the guy skiing yesterday in full motorcycle leathers and a motorcycle helmet, with rag wool socks pulled up over the leather pants to mid-calf was breaking all kinds of etiquette.


----------



## bvibert (Mar 5, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> witnessed a major code violation this past weekend.
> 
> narrow bumped up trail, steep at the top but a flatish runout.
> 
> ...



How's your jacket and rib doing?


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2012)

bvibert said:


> How's your jacket and rib doing?



rib is less sore today, jacket need needs reconstructive surgery.


----------



## jrmagic (Mar 5, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> rib is less sore today, jacket need needs reconstructive surgery.



A little duct tape will work:dunce:


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> I think the second guy wrapping up the first was an attempt to limit the damage.



yes, i think he was. it seemed to work too.  benefit from all the snow, the "landing" was softened.


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2012)

jrmagic said:


> A little duct tape will work:dunce:



a lot of duct tape


----------



## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2012)

Maybe this has already been posted and discussed.  If not, watch and discuss.  In sum, the guy taking the video thought (and maintains) that he was in the singles line while the other guy got pissed because he maintains that there is no singles line and that the guy was in the ski school line.  This was shot at Alta's Wildcat lift last week:


----------



## 2knees (Mar 5, 2012)

uphillklimber said:


> Wow, that could have been worse. I think the second guy wrapping up the first was an attempt to limit the damage. Space, you need space, just in case......



I think the second guy wrapping up the first was a desperate attempt to cop a feel....


----------



## jrmagic (Mar 5, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Maybe this has already been posted and discussed.  If not, watch and discuss.  In sum, the guy taking the video thought (and maintains) that he was in the singles line while the other guy got pissed because he maintains that there is no singles line and that the guy was in the ski school line.  This was shot at Alta's Wildcat lift last week:



Oh no he didn't:-o:-o:-o   There's really no way who is correct based on the picture but that is pretty ballsy for that guy to walk over his top sheets and bang his helmet into the guy twice for thinking he cut the line.  I'd be dropping the gloves over that one for sure.


----------



## jrmagic (Mar 5, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> a lot of duct tape



lol you'll ahve a custom jacket then.


----------



## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2012)

jrmagic said:


> Oh no he didn't:-o:-o:-o   There's really no way who is correct based on the picture but that is pretty ballsy for that guy to walk over his top sheets and bang his helmet into the guy twice for thinking he cut the line.  I'd be dropping the gloves over that one for sure.



Yeah, really seemed like overkill......


----------



## snowmonster (Mar 5, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Maybe this has already been posted and discussed.  If not, watch and discuss.  In sum, the guy taking the video thought (and maintains) that he was in the singles line while the other guy got pissed because he maintains that there is no singles line and that the guy was in the ski school line.  This was shot at Alta's Wildcat lift last week:



Whether the GoPro skier was right or wrong to be in that line, there's no excuse to hit him.


----------



## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> Whether the GoPro skier was right or wrong to be in that line, there's no excuse to hit him.



Let's hope that this guy is not at Alta in a couple weeks, right Snowmonster?


----------



## snowmonster (Mar 5, 2012)

^ Yeah, because you just don't know what I'm capable of. As Bruce Banner once said: "You won't like me when I'm angry."


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 5, 2012)

The guy who walked over the guys skis should have been ejected from the hill.  There's no place for that crap while skiing.


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## TropicTundR (Mar 5, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> Whether the GoPro skier was right or wrong to be in that line, there's no excuse to hit him.



I wish the guy with the GoPro was a big black guy.


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## 2knees (Mar 5, 2012)

Best go pro ever.....


----------



## bvibert (Mar 5, 2012)

jrmagic said:


> Oh no he didn't:-o:-o:-o   There's really no way who is correct based on the picture but that is pretty ballsy for that guy to walk over his top sheets and bang his helmet into the guy twice for thinking he cut the line.  I'd be dropping the gloves over that one for sure.



No kidding, that dude would have been on the ground if he pulled that shit with me.

Whether the gopro dude was right or wrong doesn't matter, the other dude's shit was uncalled for.


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## Tooth (Mar 5, 2012)

If someone walked over my board it would be really ugly. No excuse to do that. Whats up with people. It was wrong to cut the line though. Not violence wrong.


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## powhunter (Mar 5, 2012)

Yea he was a total Jong for letting that dude get away unscathed

Steveo


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## snowmonster (Mar 5, 2012)

bvibert said:


> No kidding, that dude would have been on the ground if he pulled that shit with me.


You're not a little guy. If someone tried to walk on your skis, I'd wonder about their relationship with reality.


TropicTundR said:


> I wish the guy with the GoPro was a big black guy.


Named Mike Tyson. That would be footage I would love to see.


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## snoseek (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm sorta over Alta at this point because of an ever growing population of dickheads like this. A day without fresh snow then sure or even a storm day maybe but if its truly a powder day then I know where I'd rather be....

Both guys looked to be idiots but I with gopro dude had knocked out angry jersey transplant....



Oh and the Collins lift is fun fun fun!!!


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## Riverskier (Mar 6, 2012)

I was in the singles line at the Jordan Bowl HSQ last weekend, and when I was next in line a group of 2 came forward. Someone from the singles line on the other side joined the group of 2 on one side, and I joined on the other, as it should be. So, we are approaching the loading area when someone from the group of 2 alerts me that 2 people (teenagers) skied out from the other side, so there were now 5 of us. Without enough time to confront them, and too far forward to return to the singles line, I am suddenly standing there ready to load a busy lift alone, and looking like a jackass. Luckily the people around me saw what happened and knew it wasn't my fault. A single from the group behind me joined me, and happened to be behind the 2 teenagers in the singles line. Apparently that was their plan all along, and had been standing there letting groups of 3 pass holding this guy up waiting for a group of 2. Mind you, the line was only about 5 minutes long. I was a teen once and did plenty of stupid things, but never something so blatantly inconsiderate.


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## hammer (Mar 6, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Maybe this has already been posted and discussed.  If not, watch and discuss.  In sum, the guy taking the video thought (and maintains) that he was in the singles line while the other guy got pissed because he maintains that there is no singles line and that the guy was in the ski school line.  This was shot at Alta's Wildcat lift last week:


Anyone read the comments over on YouTube?  Seems like they are more critical of the guy who posted the video.


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## Cannonball (Mar 6, 2012)

This reminds me of those new Direct TV ads where they follow the chain of events to bad consequences.  This one would go like this:

- If you have a no snowboarding policy at your mountain then you will attract an elitist self-entitled clientele.  
- If you have an elitist self-entitled clientele then they will feel entitled to cut everyone else in line.  
- If a self-entitled dickwad cuts everyone else in line then another self-entitled dickwad will feel entitled to ski over his skis and flail around violently.  
- If a self-entitled dickwad skis over another dickwad's skis and flails around violently then it will be captured on GoPro and posted to YouTube. 
- If that absurdity is captured on GoPro and posted to YouTube then it will make Snoseek say "I'm sorta over Alta at this point because of an ever growing population of dickheads like this."  

- Don't make Snoseek say "I'm sorta over Alta at this point because of an ever growing population of dickheads like this.".....Allow snowboarders.


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## NotEasyBeingGreen (Mar 6, 2012)

TropicTundR said:


> 3) Crouch with poles outstretched at knees and flapping all the while singing "Bird, Bird Bird is the word"
> 
> To pull off 3) you must start singing it as soon as you come off the lift. It also keeps snowboarders off with their Kamikaze Suprise attacks.



I am going to dare my husband to do this and I am fairly confident he'll give it a try.


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## NotEasyBeingGreen (Mar 6, 2012)

hammer said:


> Anyone read the comments over on YouTube?  Seems like they are more critical of the guy who posted the video.



Everyone featured in this video is a jerk and wrong.  Didn't they get the memo?  It's supposed to be fun, people.  Physical altercations and shouting fbombs in line sorta ruins the mood for everyone.


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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2012)

NotEasyBeingGreen said:


> Everyone featured in this video is a jerk and wrong.  Didn't they get the memo?  It's supposed to be fun, people.  Physical altercations and shouting fbombs in line sorta ruins the mood for everyone.



Pent up Utah powder day frustration trumps all forms of rationale thought 

BTW, the vast majority of the time if one comes upon a lift queue with a BIG line and they see some other entrance with little/no line, chances are the general public isn't supposed to be using that line


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2012)

The guy skiing over the tops of the skis is an idiot who will do more damage to his skis than to the other guys skis. Who cares what the tops of your skis look like?

While there was no ski school sign there also was not a single lines sign either.


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> This reminds me of those new Direct TV ads where they follow the chain of events to bad consequences.  This one would go like this:
> 
> - If you have a no snowboarding policy at your mountain then you will attract an elitist self-entitled clientele.
> - If you have an elitist self-entitled clientele then they will feel entitled to cut everyone else in line.
> ...




Now that I think about it Alta has always sorta been this way. I used to work there back in the day and could have easily seen this happening then. What's funny is both people actually work on the mtn. The only difference between then and now is the amount of skiers. 

Oh yeah and the no snowboarding policy is just stupid, but that's another thread that is probably due for a bump....do it, you know you want to


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2012)

NotEasyBeingGreen said:


> Everyone featured in this video is a jerk and wrong.  Didn't they get the memo?  It's supposed to be fun, people.  Physical altercations and shouting fbombs in line sorta ruins the mood for everyone.



Spot on here.  The Go Pro guy should have just ignored him so as not to escalate things.


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## Ski the Moguls (Mar 6, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Spot on here.  The Go Pro guy should have just ignored him so as not to escalate things.



Not sure that was possible. Wasn't the aggressor naturally moving with the lift line towards Mr. Go Pro? Hard to ignore a crazy person as they move closer! I think I would have just pushed back a few feet and loudly asked the aggressor "Well then, where is the singles line?"


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2012)

Ski the Moguls said:


> Not sure that was possible. Wasn't the aggressor naturally moving with the lift line towards Mr. Go Pro? Hard to ignore a crazy person as they move closer! I think I would have just pushed back a few feet and loudly asked the aggressor "Well then, where is the singles line?"



Yeah that is very true. 

I can't recall how Wildcat is set up, but it did appear that the guy was in the singles line (there is no sign).  Then again I might be wrong.  

I have not encountered any guys like this at Snowbird.

And it's kind of funny how the Go Pro has become the cop car cam of skiing.  :lol:


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## steamboat1 (Mar 6, 2012)

Did you see the length of that line?

The go-pro guy was the idiot & deserved what he got.

What are you just supposed to let some idiot get away with cutting the line?


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## SkiDork (Mar 6, 2012)

what was the deal with the ski school line?  Was the go pro dude an instructor?  I don't understand


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2012)

SkiDork said:


> what was the deal with the ski school line?  Was the go pro dude an instructor?  I don't understand



I think the issue was that the Go Pro guy was accused of cutting the line by using the ski school line.  It doesn't seem that it was a ski school line, but it doesn't necessarily look like a singles line.


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## bvibert (Mar 6, 2012)

It's hard to tell what the purpose of the line that the gopro dude used was, but clearly he wasn't the only one using it, apparently as a singles line.  It's not like he was part of a group trying to cut everyone, he was waiting for a group needing a single.  I don't see the problem with that?  He's just being opportunistic.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2012)

The one thing I can't recall is if Wildcat was a double or triple....double IIRC.  In that case, I don't usually see single lines for doubles, at least not at Snowbird or most of the lifts at Sugarbush.


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## neil (Mar 6, 2012)

As soon as I read that happened at Alta I knew it would be some douchey thing. I'm a snowboarder so that place can go fuck itself for all I care, but the number of douchey things I've heard from it is unbelievable.

A friend of mine is a really good skier and he said as much as he loved the terrain he'd never go back due to the large number of idiots he encountered there.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2012)

neil said:


> As soon as I read that happened at Alta I knew it would be some douchey thing. I'm a snowboarder so that place can go fuck itself for all I care, but the number of douchey things I've heard from it is unbelievable.
> 
> A friend of mine is a really good skier and he said as much as he loved the terrain he'd never go back due to the large number of idiots he encountered there.



Don't want to get sidetracked, but I wanted to discuss this idea for a bit.  Last season I skied at Alta twice (a Sunday and a Monday) and I didn't run into any idiots like this, but I was surprised as to who showed up to ski it. I did sense an elitest vibe that I was not expecting.  I saw some very expensive cars, folks in very expensive outfits, and older folks that looked out of place for what is supposed to be a simple ski area.  I'd expect that at Deer Valley.  And the lodging prices for such rustic amenities were really high.  

My experience, beyond that, is limited.  I did research into passes there and I just felt like they were not the "people's mountain" they claim to be.  Information was very limited.  Like Stowe, they waited until the last minute to release their pass prices.  Snowbird and others were selling passes LONG before and at better prices.  And the price/value was a bit off I thought...considering the fact that they close so early.  No real good deals, no real added benefits, etc.  I got the sense that they felt they did not have to offer any good deals.  

But if the anti-snowboard thing does lead to more problems with clientele and making the place attract idiots, then is this true for MRG?  Deer Valley? (I can't say, but they are very elitest).  I don't want to cause a :argue: just want to hear what other folks think.


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## neil (Mar 6, 2012)

My experience is obviously anecdotal, what with me being banned from the place, but I've met two different skiers who have flat out stated to me "I love Alta because there's no snowboarders". That along with videos like that and my friends own comments have me thinking "Alta = douches".

As much as I disagree with MRG banning snowboarders, I don't feel that "MRG = douches".


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## SkiDork (Mar 6, 2012)

Just looking at the situation, the line was freakin huge.  Can't imagine the line gopro dude got on was meant for singles...  If that were the case there would have been a ton more people using it...


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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2012)

SkiDork said:


> Just looking at the situation, the line was freakin huge.  Can't imagine the line gopro dude got on was meant for singles...  If that were the case there would have been a ton more people using it...



That's exactly how my mind was processing that video/scenario too!  Then again, not everyone (i.e. GoPro dude in this case) has the same level of common sense


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## WakeboardMom (Mar 6, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Did you see the length of that line?
> 
> The go-pro guy was the idiot & deserved what he got.
> 
> What are you just supposed to let some idiot get away with cutting the line?



Sunday at Loon I was in the queue for the Seven Brothers chair and there was a bit of anarchy.  Three sets of twos jumped in front of my husband and me as we approached the lift.  A man around 30 and a young boy were just about to cut in front of me, but I had had enough.  "Excuse me...it's NOT your turn."  He just nodded and pulled back and the kid followed suit.  I fully expected him to ignore me.  I was happy he didn't.

Later that day we were in line for the gondola and were the next couple to be let into the loading area, when the liftee notices two college-age kids breathing down her neck, facing the wrong way in the corral.  "Can we hop on with our friends?"  They point to the people behind me...there's easily 20 - 30 people between them and their friends.  Liftee says, "Line goes that way," and points them into the corral to finish their wait.  "Oh, c'mon, seriously?"  They harass her.  "Yes," she says, "All these people have been waiting."  Kids: "They won't mind."  I say, "I would mind."  Kids:  "Well, I guess it's a good thing I'm not tryna cut in front of you."  

I had to load so I didn't see the end result.  I was pissed that they had harassed the poor girl who was just doing her job.  Little shits.  I said to my husband, "I would be so ashamed if my kids behaved that way."


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## Scruffy (Mar 6, 2012)

I just looked at that vid. The guy did try and tell helmet cam boy nicely he was in the wrong line, no excuse for the head bump though. Alta is a great place, I've been there many a time. That said there is a small but in your face local crowd in SLC that think they don't need tourists to sustain their local ski area resorts, and tend to act all elitist about their ski areas, they'll frequent the Bird as well. You'll see them on the hill running over peeps on the traverses, and call peeps out for not straight lining powder, and such. It has more to do with the close proximity of the the ski areas to the city, where a lot of affluent enough to ski locals want to keep it to themselves. Of course not everyone living in the SLC area and skis has attitude.


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## zakyr (Mar 6, 2012)

The guy taking the video may or may not have been in the wrong line....but if I though someone was trying to "cut" I would bring it to the attention of en employee at the lift.

They guy was a jerk.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2012)

So Unofficial has the whole backstory on the Alta Rage video.  Apparently the Go Pro guy is an employee who thinks he has privileges to use the ski patrol line but he doesn't, and apparently the end of the video is cut out.  

http://unofficialnetworks.com/video...ne-confrontation-pov-angry-angry-skier-80359/

Read the comments.


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## SkiDork (Mar 6, 2012)

The 3 other people on that line didn't look like patrollers either...


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## bvibert (Mar 6, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> The one thing I can't recall is if Wildcat was a double or triple....double IIRC.  In that case, I don't usually see single lines for doubles, at least not at Snowbird or most of the lifts at Sugarbush.



If it's a double, then I doubt there was a singles line.  I was assuming that it was at least a triple.  Regardless, the other dude was out of line, even if GoPro dude was in the wrong.


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## bvibert (Mar 6, 2012)

bvibert said:


> If it's a double, then I doubt there was a singles line.  I was assuming that it was at least a triple.  Regardless, the other dude was out of line, even if GoPro dude was in the wrong.



Eh, the more I watch it, especially knowing it's a double now, the more I think the GoPro dude is more in the wrong.  I still think the "enforcer" was an a-hole too though.  In short they both look like douche bags.  They should have settled it with a duel to the death.


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## AdironRider (Mar 6, 2012)

Apparently the enforcer is a notorious douchebag of upmost proportions. 

Second, there is no signage posted at that lift confirmed by numerous friends who ski there to indicate it is a ski patrol/ski school/ or anything else often times. They also said often that that access is opened up once the line gets pretty long. 

Kinda like at the supermarket when they open up another aisle, its always the people just walking up that snag the early spots, and the people already stuck in line wait. No difference here. 

That being said, the gopro kid had to know some people might get pissy about it, what the aggro dude did was completely out of line and hes lucky it wasnt somebody else that would have beat the shit out of him. Theres nothing on that video that would have put the gopro kid in the wrong in a court of law if he had defended himself.


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## TropicTundR (Mar 6, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Apparently the enforcer is a notorious douchebag of upmost proportions.
> 
> Second, there is no signage posted at that lift confirmed by numerous friends who ski there to indicate it is a ski patrol/ski school/ or anything else often times. They also said often that that access is opened up once the line gets pretty long.
> 
> ...



Ding..Ding..
Sir, You have given the correct answer..

Origional video taken down...Thread is ready to close?...:flame:


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## legalskier (Mar 6, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> ...the gopro kid had to know some people might get pissy about it, what the aggro dude did was completely out of line and hes lucky it wasnt somebody else that would have beat the shit out of him. Theres nothing on that video that would have put the gopro kid in the wrong in a court of law if he had defended himself.



The vid has been removed. 
What I'm wondering is why aggro-dude didn't call out the three people who were standing in front of POV-dude, doing the same thing he was going to try. None of them had any insignia/markings to indicate they had privilege to cut the line (e.g. ski patrol, instructor). Aggro-dude focused solely on POV-dude, which suggests they may have some history.

In any event, no matter how POV-dude was acting (and I'm not trying to defend him), aggro-dude was the one who took it to a physical level. He walked over POV-dude's skis (even after POV told him "you can go in front of me"), then intentionally struck POV with his helmet-- not once but twice. To top it off, he turned around and, if I heard correctly, said what he was going to do to POV's wife. Clearly he was the aggressor.
I have to wonder what he's capable of doing when the camera isn't watching.


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2012)

legalskier said:


> the vid has been removed.
> What i'm wondering is why aggro-dude didn't call out the three people who were standing in front of pov-dude, doing the same thing he was going to try. None of them had any insignia/markings to indicate they had privilege to cut the line (e.g. Ski patrol, instructor). Aggro-dude focused solely on pov-dude, which suggests they may have some history.
> 
> In any event, no matter how pov-dude was acting (and i'm not trying to defend him), aggro-dude was the one who took it to a physical level. He walked over pov-dude's skis (even after pov told him "you can go in front of me"), then intentionally struck pov with his helmet-- not once but twice. To top it off, he turned around and, if i heard correctly, said what he was going to do to pov's wife. Clearly he was the aggressor.
> I have to wonder what he's capable of doing when the camera isn't watching.



redrum


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## snoseek (Mar 6, 2012)

Ski a lot and ski all day even when it sucks. Spend at least 1/2 of your time skiing conservatively on stuff that is a little above your comfort zone. Take lots of warm up runs in the am.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah, the video is off of YouTube because Alta asked that it be removed.  

And Alta also said that there is no singles line for the Wildcat Double.


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## hammer (Mar 7, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Yeah, the video is off of YouTube because Alta asked that it be removed.
> 
> And Alta also said that there is no singles line for the Wildcat Double.


Didn't know that a business like Alta could force removal of a video...sounds like censorship to me...

At least Go Pro guy should know better the next time around...


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## snoseek (Mar 7, 2012)

snoseek said:


> Ski a lot and ski all day even when it sucks. Spend at least 1/2 of your time skiing conservatively on stuff that is a little above your comfort zone. Take lots of warm up runs in the am.



Oh man was I high last night!!!! I'm just gonna leave this here


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## thetrailboss (Mar 7, 2012)

hammer said:


> Didn't know that a business like Alta could force removal of a video...sounds like censorship to me...
> 
> At least Go Pro guy should know better the next time around...



Alta wrote the guy who posted the video and asked that it be taken down.


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## hammer (Mar 7, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Alta wrote the guy who posted the video and asked that it be taken down.


OK, makes sense.  Actually good of Go Pro guy to do that.  Hope they also reminded him about there being no singles line.

Doing a helmet check, no matter how deserved, is not the way to go, however.


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2012)

snoseek said:


> Oh man was I high last night!!!! I'm just gonna leave this here



I was pondering that post


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## jrmagic (Mar 7, 2012)

hammer said:


> OK, makes sense.  Actually good of Go Pro guy to do that.  Hope they also reminded him about there being no singles line.
> 
> Doing a helmet check, no matter how deserved, is not the way to go, however.



Yup. I was thinking though.. if gopro dude clicked out of his bindngs quick he could have gone after aggro dude in a big way like when a hockey player puulls up his opponents jersey to tie him up. It would be hard for him to defend himself while he's getting hit and locked into his binders:razz:


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2012)

bvibert said:


> If it's a double, then I doubt there was a singles line.  I was assuming that it was at least a triple.  Regardless, the other dude was out of line, even if GoPro dude was in the wrong.



Stowe offers a singles line on the Lookout Double.  Works pretty fairly.  They let a few rows of doubles go and then two individuals from the singles line.  It prevents chairs going up with only 1 person on it.


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## gmcunni (Mar 7, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Stowe offers a singles line on the Lookout Double.  Works pretty fairly. * They let a few rows of doubles go and then two individuals from the singles line.*  It prevents chairs going up with only 1 person on it.



i've seen (and taken advantage of this) at other places but the logic escapes me.  WHY PULL 2 from the singles line?  i'm OK with a singles line on a double for the oddball 3some skiing together but when you take 2 peeps from singles it just baffles me.


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## neil (Mar 7, 2012)

jrmagic said:


> Yup. I was thinking though.. if gopro dude clicked out of his bindngs quick he could have gone after aggro dude in a big way like when a hockey player puulls up his opponents jersey to tie him up. It would be hard for him to defend himself while he's getting hit and locked into his binders:razz:



Yeah I would've been very tempted to throw my arm round his neck and drag him to the ground.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> i've seen (and taken advantage of this) at other places but the logic escapes me.  WHY PULL 2 from the singles line?  i'm OK with a singles line on a double for the oddball 3some skiing together but when you take 2 peeps from singles it just baffles me.



Because people are dumb and often don't pair up on their own.  I recall skiing Smuggs one time where there wasn't a singles line for the Madonna Double.  Line was huge, many chairs were going up with singles on them because strangers didn't pair up on their own ahead of time in line.  The system at Stowe seemed to work in that the folks in the singles line received no time savings advantage from the doubles skiers and zero chairs went up that weren't full.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Mar 7, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Yeah, the video is off of YouTube because Alta asked that it be removed.
> 
> And Alta also said that there is no singles line for the Wildcat Double.



However, the lifties also said that the line the gopro guy was in was usually open to all, except on powder days.  The gopro guy was definately wrong, but in his post on UnNet he did sound like he wasn't aware of the powder day policy in regards to that line.  It also can be argued that the 3 people ahead of him should have been yelled at first, considering there appeared to be nothing saying they were in ski patrol.  Finally, I don't care how pissed somebody makes you, especially when we are talkng a ski lift line, you should not lay a hand on anybody.  I am not sure I could have been as reserved as the gopro guy was.  Bottom line, gopro guy was wrong, aggressive ski line Nazi.........really really wrong.  I have no problem with a little yelling, etc, but but physically touching somebody in such a manner.....I don't think so.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Mar 7, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Because people are dumb and often don't pair up on their own.  I recall skiing Smuggs one time where there wasn't a singles line for the Madonna Double.  Line was huge, many chairs were going up with singles on them because strangers didn't pair up on their own ahead of time in line.  The system at Stowe seemed to work in that the folks in the singles line received no time savings advantage from the doubles skiers and zero chairs went up that weren't full.



While I can personally say I have never seen a singles line on a double, I guess it does make sense during peak times and I am not sure it makes somebody dumb for not doubling up.  Often times it can be tough to see whether people are singles or doubles as the lines are often just a cluster fuck and people are not moving at the same pace or doubled up right until they get to the front of the line.


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## gmcunni (Mar 7, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Apparently the enforcer is a *notorious douchebag *of upmost proportions.



that would make an awesome forum username - Notorious Douchebag


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2012)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> While I can personally say I have never seen a singles line on a double, I guess it does make sense during peak times and I am not sure it makes somebody dumb for not doubling up.  Often times it can be tough to see whether people are singles or doubles as the lines are often just a cluster fuck and people are not moving at the same pace or doubled up right until they get to the front of the line.



Perhaps "dumb" was too harsh of a descriptor.  Maybe oblivious would be a better word choice.  You are absolutely right that it can be difficult to see other singles in line.  It can also be difficult for the lifty to spot separate singles in different lanes and pair them up in time without disrupting lift loading.  That's why I thought the system worked really well at Stowe and that a place like Smuggs that only has double chairs would be wise to employ such line management.  

The day I witnessed this at Stowe was a busy Saturday.  The singles line for the quad was a good 20 minutes, then you had the 8 or so minute ride up the Fore Runner.  If you chose to ride the double, whether in the singles or doubles line, you were on the lift in 5 minutes, then you have the 15 minute ride to the top.  I'd rather spend my time on a lift than standing in line and overall it's a time savings to ride the Lookout Double on a busy day at Stowe than ride the Quad.   Unless you're planning on hitting Upper Goat or Nosedive, riding the Double is the better strategy at Stowe on a busy day.

Not to mention that the trail under the Lookout lift is sick, much better than Lift Line under the Quad.  So, you usually get to see a lot better skiers ripping it up.


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## gregnye (Mar 8, 2012)

You know whats worse than the liftie pairing two singles together?

Answer: A liftie pairing 4 singles together to make a quad while the rest of the line is waiting!!

I saw this happen at Loon. Not once, but many times during the same day. The lifties felt inclined to pair 4 singles together rather than 1 single and a triple. This prompted groups of 4 to use the single line and expect the lifties to not separate their party.

Of course this was a few years ago--I'm glad they don't do that anymore!


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## Nick (Mar 8, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> that would make an awesome forum username - Notorious Douchebag



Or a triple platinum rapper with some bling all up in his grill


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