# What expansion would you most like to see happen and where?



## BeefyBoy50 (Nov 6, 2013)

I saw this thread on epic recently and wanted to hear a more local spin on it over on Alpinezone. However, I don't mind if you also bring up mountains outside of the northeast because it's all interesting to me. As a PA skier, I don't go to NE ski areas often enough (outside of PA) to be able to weigh in on this discussion at the bigger mountains, but I certainly would love to see some growth at more local areas.
Blue Mountain- To a person like me uneducated in the business of a ski area, I can't imagine how Blue doesn't have a huge profit margin. Sure they do lots of snowmaking and are always running lifts, but given the size of the crowd that is always there, both in the liftlines and in the runs, I would be surprised to hear that they couldn't plan some new trains and growth of the mountain. Whether that would be given a green light by environmental agencies, i'm not sure, but they could certainly use some new trails, preferrably not the super wide ones that go straight down the mountain and put you at the liftline just a couple minutes after you got off at the top. Given that PA isn't listed in New England Ski Areas History I don't know much about any expansion plans here but I would love it if anything (anything outside of new indoor waterpark or new base area buildings) was in the works.

Elk Mountain- Elk, if you ignore the exaggeration in the brochure, is the closest thing we have to "vermont" skiing in eastern PA (i've never skied at Blue Knob but it seems legit), so I would love if they could institute a boundary to boundary policy and thin some glades for the only real tree skiing in Eastern pennsylvania.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2013)

Good thread.  

On the east coast:

*Killington-Pico Interconnect:  would probably save Pico but at the same time ruin it.  Mixed feelings, but it would be pretty cool to      see.  

*Sugarbush:  I'd want to see the proposed expansions at North (the abandoned liftline above Inverness, new lift in the FIS basin, etc.)  I say this because this would be cool new terrain in an undiscovered gem.  

*Burke:  West Peak.  Steeper terrain that would be great cruiser/steep fall line skiing.  

*Bolton:  adding a lift to the peak in between Vista and Wilderness (Ricker I think).  Looks good on the map, but I think it might be too steep for good terrain.  Still, would give them some more expert terrain and add some vert.  

I'd also like to see some NELSAP areas reopen including Tyrol, Highlands, Watatic, Hogback, etc. 

West:

*Snowbird:  my "Save the Canyons" friends will shoot me, but what the hell.  Mineral Basin.  They own it, they cleaned it up, and there is some sweet skiing back there.  Not so sure about the crazy Twin Peaks Tram, but it wouldn't hurt.  

*Alta:  lift opposite the ski area and across the road as they want to do.  I think that would offer a pretty cool perspective.  I'd also like to see skiing to the north of Supreme with a new lift there.  

*Alpine Meadows/Squaw:  open White Wolf (at long last).


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## ScottySkis (Nov 6, 2013)

See Bearpen open and Bobcat reopens please.


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## BeefyBoy50 (Nov 6, 2013)

Snowbird is the western ski area i've skied the most. I've looked into their expansion plans a lot and am somewhat neutral on the whole issue. I love the Gad 2/ tiger tail area and am glad but also somewhat sad to see that they are putting in a high speed in that area. Black forest, tiger tail, and the gad 2 liftline seem to hold powder longer than other places elsewhere on the mountain, and thunder bowl is always a good bet because its so far out of the way- i'm sure all those areas will be skied out more quickly this year.
is mid-gad becoming a high speed as well? seems a bit unnecessary to me considering that gadzoom serves that area and handles it pretty well.
I've always wished they could open a lift going from the little cloud base area perpendicular to little cloud in the direction of last chance and what is marked as baldy's bowl on the map, it could end up on the shoulder of the west twin- this would open the option for eventual expansion into white pine (undoubtedly this would be contested by forest service and locals). This seems like a better idea than the twin peak tram. Would that tram offer easy skiing into mary ellen? Even so another lift would have to be built down there to get back into mineral- it would be like a second mineral basin. Interesting sure, but certainly costly and difficult to pass.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2013)

BeefyBoy50 said:


> Snowbird is the western ski area i've skied the most. I've looked into their expansion plans a lot and am somewhat neutral on the whole issue. I love the Gad 2/ tiger tail area and am glad but also somewhat sad to see that they are putting in a high speed in that area. Black forest, tiger tail, and the gad 2 liftline seem to hold powder longer than other places elsewhere on the mountain, and thunder bowl is always a good bet because its so far out of the way- i'm sure all those areas will be skied out more quickly this year.
> is mid-gad becoming a high speed as well? seems a bit unnecessary to me considering that gadzoom serves that area and handles it pretty well.
> I've always wished they could open a lift going from the little cloud base area perpendicular to little cloud in the direction of last chance and what is marked as baldy's bowl on the map, it could end up on the shoulder of the west twin- this would open the option for eventual expansion into white pine (undoubtedly this would be contested by forest service and locals). This seems like a better idea than the twin peak tram. Would that tram offer easy skiing into mary ellen? Even so another lift would have to be built down there to get back into mineral- it would be like a second mineral basin. Interesting sure, but certainly costly and difficult to pass.



Long term plan is to change Mid-Gad into a Cabriolet I think.  They want to add night skiing on that side as well.  

They were going to extend Gad II up into that area you mention, but there was permafrost I was told.


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## 4aprice (Nov 6, 2013)

In the east; Smugglers Notch,  Expansion up to the top of Morse, having trails drop down to Mid Madonna along with trails leading back to village and Lower Morse.  Perfect Place for a Gondola (for all those that want a high speed lift at Smuggs).  Then expansion to the east onto Whiteface (Real name Sterling Mountain).

Expand Belleayre on to the old Highmount area (think Mittersill).



thetrailboss said:


> *Alta:  lift opposite the ski area and across the road as they want to do.  I think that would offer a pretty cool perspective.  I'd also like to see skiing to the north of Supreme with a new lift there.



Isn't that where the famed Chads Gap is?    North of Supreme would be Catherine's I assume.  

Buttermilk Colorado:  Expand up Burnt Mountain from West Buttermilk Base.  Maybe even connect with Snowmass and avoid the long drive up to Twin Creeks or the village.


Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## ss20 (Nov 6, 2013)

+2 on good thread

In order:
1. Killington-Pico Interconnect:  An eastern resort with over 1,500 acres would shut up some of those western ski snobs who bash the east.  Unfortunately though, the largest ego's in the east would grow even larger. :grin:    
(just kidding) ;-)
2. Mount Snow-Haystack Connection: From end-to-end, the resort would stretch to over 3.5 miles, a whole half mile wider than Sunday River.
3. Canyons-Solitude Ski Link: Step 1 in making SLC something to rival the lift/resort networks of the Alps.

Unofficially:
4. Bring Walt Schoenknecht back to life, give him 500 million dollars, and let him do every idea he ever wanted.  These ideas would include: a ski race stadium, natural history museum, 7 mile tram, glass-enclosed village, and of course, the nuclear bomb drop at the base of the North Face.  Source: too many old magazine articles on the internet that I've found. :grin:


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## canobie#1 (Nov 6, 2013)

Pinnacle peak and the canda area at ragged wins the top spot for me. It will make them the second largest resort in NH.


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## snowmonster (Nov 6, 2013)

Jay Peak - West Bowl now!

Sunday River - expand westward from Jordan Bowl. I think SR owns the land back there.

Stowe/Smuggs - interconnect Stowe and Smuggs at Spruce Peak. Offer an interconnect ticket, if you have to. Peg it at what you think the market can bear. Would be a good option to have for the skier who wants it all. It would be the east's version of the AltaBird interconnect.

Magic - reconnect to Timber Ridge.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 6, 2013)

Stowe>Smuggs Interconnect

No other expansion possibility in the East even remotely compares.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 6, 2013)

and there really isn't any NIMBY ecowarrior excuse why it shouldn't happen.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 7, 2013)

Stowe-Smuggs would be cool if brought back from the dead.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 7, 2013)

Screw the bears.

Develop Slidebrook at the Bush interconnecting north & south.


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## mbedle (Nov 7, 2013)

Can't agree more with snowmonster and deadhead skier!!!! Would make an unbelievable experience to have both interconnected. For the original post - a couple of things about Blue Mountain. Its overall expansion has occurred from the top of the mountain down to the bottom and from west to east along the ridge line. Basically, it started off with the first vista lift, expanded to the two doubles and finally reached the bottom with challenge express.  Check out skimp.org and you can see the progression from top to bottom and west to east. What is interesting (and I never saw it because they didn't allow snowboarding back in those days), but they extended the Challenge Express sometime between 91 and 93. This basically created about a 100 foot vertical run out, but might have given them the marketing title of tallest vertical in PA. Now as far as expansion goes at Blue Mountain, it appears that they have decided to shift expansion focus on facility upgrades and summer uses. They completed a significant upgrade to the main lodge over the past couple of years. They already opened this summer for mountain biking. Things in the works include not only the new waterpark along the entrance road and the new base lodge, but also expansion of the sewer treatment plant (to accommodate growth at the sum of 1.5 million) and pipeline replacements. Over the past couple of years they also have done some major upgrades to their snowmaking facilities (new storage ponds, pole mounted cannons, pipeline upgrades). I did see a post on Facebook last spring that did make mention of possible trail expansion for the 2014-2015 season. I think I rather see them redesign some of the existing trails first. The cluster f@#k at the bottom of the main street lift needs to get fixed (regard to allow crossover). Redesign the bottom run outs so you don't have a million snowboarders and skiers blocking the trails. Having two parks on both bottom run outs on the west side is brutal for people just trying to get back on the lift.  The location of Burma Road(a slow skiing and long winding beginner trail) occupies the steepest terrain located at the ski area. Would love to see  Little Gap disconnected from Burma and run straight down to the double lift. The Lets hope for the best.

As far as tree skiing at Elk - that will never happen unless it gets sold. My understanding is its the result of a substantial lawsuit with someone getting injured in the woods. No proof of that, just something I heard on the lift.


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## KD7000 (Nov 7, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> and there really isn't any NIMBY ecowarrior excuse why it shouldn't happen.


True enough.  A good number of the eco-warriors and hardcore locals are hiking across anyway.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 7, 2013)

mbedle said:


> Can't agree more with snowmonster and deadhead skier!!!! Would make an unbelievable experience to have both interconnected. For the original post - a couple of things about Blue Mountain. Its overall expansion has occurred from the top of the mountain down to the bottom and from west to east along the ridge line. Basically, it started off with the first vista lift, expanded to the two doubles and finally reached the bottom with challenge express.  Check out skimp.org and you can see the progression from top to bottom and west to east. What is interesting (and I never saw it because they didn't allow snowboarding back in those days), but they extended the Challenge Express sometime between 91 and 93. This basically created about a 100 foot vertical run out, but might have given them the marketing title of tallest vertical in PA. Now as far as expansion goes at Blue Mountain, it appears that they have decided to shift expansion focus on facility upgrades and summer uses. They completed a significant upgrade to the main lodge over the past couple of years. They already opened this summer for mountain biking. Things in the works include not only the new waterpark along the entrance road and the new base lodge, but also expansion of the sewer treatment plant (to accommodate growth at the sum of 1.5 million) and pipeline replacements. Over the past couple of years they also have done some major upgrades to their snowmaking facilities (new storage ponds, pole mounted cannons, pipeline upgrades). I did see a post on Facebook last spring that did make mention of possible trail expansion for the 2014-2015 season. I think I rather see them redesign some of the existing trails first. The cluster f@#k at the bottom of the main street lift needs to get fixed (regard to allow crossover). Redesign the bottom run outs so you don't have a million snowboarders and skiers blocking the trails. Having two parks on both bottom run outs on the west side is brutal for people just trying to get back on the lift.  The location of Burma Road(a slow skiing and long winding beginner trail) occupies the steepest terrain located at the ski area. Would love to see  Little Gap disconnected from Burma and run straight down to the double lift. The Lets hope for the best.
> 
> As far as tree skiing at Elk - that will never happen unless it gets sold. My understanding is its the result of a substantial lawsuit with someone getting injured in the woods. No proof of that, just something I heard on the lift.



On their website of Elk they talk all about the trees that they implanted there so I think that has something to do with no glades. I have seen people ski the trees the few times I been there.


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## HowieT2 (Nov 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Screw the bears.
> 
> Develop Slidebrook at the Bush interconnecting north & south.



i would hate that.  Thankfully, it can't happen.  I want that to stay tree skiing.

trailboss-Inverness pod expansion would be great (except for bringing people closer to the best tree skiing), but better without too much more effort, would be to use that lift to connect mt Ellen to mrg.  How 'bout that for an eastern powerhouse.


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## Tin (Nov 7, 2013)

Reopen Tenney and throw in a HSQ that went to the actual summit.


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## WWF-VT (Nov 7, 2013)

HowieT2 said:


> i would hate that.  Thankfully, it can't happen.  I want that to stay tree skiing.



+1 on NOT developing Slidebrook


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## Newpylong (Nov 7, 2013)

Killington-Pico interconnect. Just do it already. It's been on the books for decades. It may effect (ruin?) some of the experience at Pico but it's the red headed step child as it is. Improvements over there would be beneficial. Also, they've lost so much terrain over the years would be nice to see something new.

Ragged Mountain Pinnacle Peak expansion as well.


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## Newpylong (Nov 7, 2013)

HowieT2 said:


> i would hate that.  Thankfully, it can't happen.  I want that to stay tree skiing.
> 
> trailboss-Inverness pod expansion would be great (except for bringing people closer to the best tree skiing), but better without too much more effort, would be to use that lift to connect mt Ellen to mrg.  How 'bout that for an eastern powerhouse.



Can still see the old lift line for this!


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Jay Peak - West Bowl now!



I'm on the other side of the fence on this one, SM. I would really prefer that areas stays as it is. There are great lines back in that zone and development would ruin the fun.  I guess we ought to put a lift from 242 up to Big Jay while we're at it?

Come on! You have skins =)



deadheadskier said:


> Stowe>Smuggs Interconnect
> 
> No other expansion possibility in the East even remotely compares.



This is true. A smuggs/Stowe interconnect would make the area the ultimate East Coast resort for beginners to experts although, in my mind it already is.

How do people envision connecting though? A rope tow on the existing trail (long trail) everyone uses to access the BB's?? 

I hate to think of the traffic that will increase back on those off map glades. Yes, they are heavily skied already but the thought of a two-way line of people going back and forth up top is unappealing to me. It's not that long or difficult of a walk.


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## C-Rex (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> This is true. A smuggs/Stowe interconnect would make the area the ultimate East Coast resort for beginners to experts although, in my mind it already is.
> 
> How do people envision connecting though? A rope tow on the existing trail (long trail) everyone uses to access the BB's??
> 
> I hate to think of the traffic that will increase back on those off map glades. Yes, they are heavily skied already but the thought of a two-way line of people going back and forth up top is unappealing to me. It's not that long or difficult of a walk.




I agree on this.  I'd love to see an interconnect pass offered but I don't think infrastructure should be put in to make it easier.  Just allowing people to hike across would be good enough.  Plus it'd make the trip feel more adventurous.  It'd be a different story if you could drive thought the notch in the winter.  As it is, it takes way too long to get to Smuggs if you're staying at Stowe or vice versa.


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## hammer (Nov 7, 2013)

Attitash - HSQ to the summit.  Nice trails up top but the triple is slow.
Ragged - Faster lift for Spear (think this has been mentioned ad nauseum).


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## spring_mountain_high (Nov 7, 2013)

More on Elk:  Expand onto the eastern peak.  No idea who owns it, but looks eminently ski-able.  Also, cut at least two trails from delaware down to lehigh.  short, but serious pitch.  and of course, open up the trees.


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## 4aprice (Nov 7, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> and there really isn't any NIMBY ecowarrior excuse why it shouldn't happen.



I've always understood it was more basic then that.  Pure animosity.  The 2 areas hate each other.  Stowe already did their part to ruin the interconnect by realigning Big Spruce.  Yes it would be great, no I don't see it happening.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## deadheadskier (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> This is true. A smuggs/Stowe interconnect would make the area the ultimate East Coast resort for beginners to experts although, in my mind it already is.
> 
> How do people envision connecting though? A rope tow on the existing trail (long trail) everyone uses to access the BB's??
> 
> I hate to think of the traffic that will increase back on those off map glades. Yes, they are heavily skied already but the thought of a two-way line of people going back and forth up top is unappealing to me. It's not that long or difficult of a walk.



No lifts.  Just reopen the ski trails between the two areas and share a common lift ticket.

The trails were on the map at one point, though they didn't have names.  You can see on the map below the trail going to Smuggs from the top of the Old Spruce double and the return trail from Smuggs to the Sterling trail at Stowe.


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## St. Bear (Nov 7, 2013)

One that I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet is expansion to the summit of Mt. Mansfield for Stowe.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> No lifts.  Just reopen the ski trails between the two areas and share a common lift ticket.
> 
> The trails were on the map at one point, though they didn't have names.  You can see on the map below the trail going to Smuggs from the top of the Old Spruce double and the return trail from Smuggs to the Sterling trail at Stowe.



Exactly. I already use those trails. The one near the pond is quite fun I think.

Just a common lift ticket is all this would take.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> One that I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet is expansion to the summit of Mt. Mansfield for Stowe.



This would be a sin.


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## St. Bear (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> This would be a sin.



People already mentioned Slidebrook and West Bowl at Jay, so I just assumed the gloves were off.


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## Mapnut (Nov 7, 2013)

ss20 said:


> +2 on good thread
> 
> 4. Bring Walt Schoenknecht back to life, give him 500 million dollars, and let him do every idea he ever wanted. These ideas would include: a ski race stadium, natural history museum, 7 mile tram, glass-enclosed village, and of course, the nuclear bomb drop at the base of the North Face. Source: too many old magazine articles on the internet that I've found. :grin:



No need for the bomb! A lift further to the west, extending down toward the Somerset Reservoir, could have over 1300 vertical feet and a lot of good expert and intermediate terrain.  There's also a good reservoir site on the brook down there that could supply snowmaking water to the whole mountain, no need to tap Somerset.

Nobody's mentioned Magic; lots more steep terrain to the southwest and moderate terrain to the northeast. And they could have a bunny slope between the top of the Black Chair and the true summit! Of course first they'll need more than 20,000 skier visits a year.

Wildcat has all kinds of expansion potential.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> People already mentioned Slidebrook and West Bowl at Jay, so I just assumed the gloves were off.



Gloves are off! I'm just messin' =)


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## Bostonian (Nov 7, 2013)

NH:
I love to see Tenney reopened with a HSQ... 
Gunstock develop Alpine Ridge
Pinnacle Peak at Ragged 

VT:
Magic to Timber Ridge would be great
Of course Ascutney reopening would be good
And yes Pico-KMart interconnect...


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## xwhaler (Nov 7, 2013)

Saddleback West Bowl would be good---take some pressure off the Rangeley main mtn.
I personally don't want to see them develop False Peak...in some maps they showed a proposed lift essentially going up from below the Yurt up to where Muleskinnner starts.
I get that ppl could then lap casa/muleskinner all day but that area would get tracked out quickly.
Howver, if they ever expanded glades to the East of Muleskinner that could be very cool.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

I would like to see a peak to peak gondola over I-93 from Cannon summit to Lincoln or Lafayette Summit and a trail pod to Lincoln's throat and rest of the backside and some trails down to the gap with a tunnel under 93 to retrun.


Now, that would be an expansion.


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## snosharkrider (Nov 7, 2013)

From the Mt Snow website: *1963 – North Face Lift Opens & Mount Snow Survives a Bomb Scare*
With the opening of the North Face double chairlift, skiers no longer have an hour wait between runs. The North Face features six trails including the super-steep “Slalom Glade” (now Ripcord). That same year, Walt commissions the Atomic Energy Commission to explode an underground nuclear bomb to create a bowl for skiing and add more vertical feet. Fortunately, wiser heads at the AEC prevail and Walt’s request is denied.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I would like to see a peak to peak gondola over I-93 from Cannon summit to Lincoln or Lafayette Summit and a trail pod to Lincoln's throat and rest of the backside and some trails down to the gap with a tunnel under 93 to retrun.
> 
> 
> Now, that would be an expansion.



Whistler of the East.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> Whistler of the East.




A Mix of Whistler and Loveland (a la the tunnel under an interstate) and 3300 vertical ft.


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## freeski919 (Nov 7, 2013)

BeefyBoy50 said:


> I saw this thread on epic recently and wanted to hear a more local spin on it over on Alpinezone. However, I don't mind if you also bring up mountains outside of the northeast because it's all interesting to me. As a PA skier, I don't go to NE ski areas often enough (outside of PA) to be able to weigh in on this discussion at the bigger mountains, but I certainly would love to see some growth at more local areas.
> Blue Mountain- To a person like me uneducated in the business of a ski area, I can't imagine how Blue doesn't have a huge profit margin. Sure they do lots of snowmaking and are always running lifts, but given the size of the crowd that is always there, both in the liftlines and in the runs, I would be surprised to hear that they couldn't plan some new trains and growth of the mountain. Whether that would be given a green light by environmental agencies, i'm not sure, but they could certainly use some new trails, preferrably not the super wide ones that go straight down the mountain and put you at the liftline just a couple minutes after you got off at the top. Given that PA isn't listed in New England Ski Areas History I don't know much about any expansion plans here but I would love it if anything (anything outside of new indoor waterpark or new base area buildings) was in the works.



Having worked at Blue, I came to understand that the owners of Blue own more of the mountainside to the East of the current trail system, so there's room to expand that way. However, further expansion in that direction would require a completely new trail system. There might also be environmental factors in play. As anyone from Lehigh/Carbon/Northampton Counties knows, Blue Mt. was absolutely devastated by the zinc plants in Palmerton. There are massive recovery efforts in place right now, and they're coming along. Blue might be limited to its current footprint until the recovery efforts are complete. I don't know about that, its speculation on my part. 



4aprice said:


> I've always understood it was more basic then that.  Pure animosity.  The 2 areas hate each other.  Stowe already did their part to ruin the interconnect by realigning Big Spruce.  Yes it would be great, no I don't see it happening.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



As a current Stowe employee, I don't really see any hatred on our side of the mountain. Stowe is one type of resort, Smuggs is a different type entirely. If there is any hatred, its on the other side. We've taken some of their best employees over the last few years, and Stowe has a more successful operation overall than Smuggs. But on our part, we like Smuggs just fine. 

Changing the top station of Big Spruce to the current top of the Sensation had nothing to do with Stowe wanting to ruin any interconnect, either. That was an environmental decision. The top of Spruce Peak is one of the only nesting areas of an endangered bird. I think its the Bicknell's thrush, but I'm not sure. Anyways, with the Big Spruce top station where it was, the birds had stopped nesting there. When they put the top of the Sensation lower, they started nesting there again. 



St. Bear said:


> One that I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet is expansion to the summit of Mt. Mansfield for Stowe.



If plans for that are ever drawn up, I will light myself on fire and run into the Mountain Ops. Center to destroy any and all evidence of the plans.


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## St. Bear (Nov 7, 2013)

freeski919 said:


> If plans for that are ever drawn up, I will light myself on fire and run into the Mountain Ops. Center to destroy any and all evidence of the plans.



I envision a bubble 6 pack to the summit, with a restaurant and zip lines as well.

A climbing wall would be a nice touch as well.

Of course, they'd have to grade and level a the more difficult terrain to accomodate the snowmaking and grooming.  But it's all for the better good.


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## WoodCore (Nov 7, 2013)

Gunny Bowl at Sundown!


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

freeski919 said:


> If plans for that are ever drawn up, I will light myself on fire and run into the Mountain Ops. Center to destroy any and all evidence of the plans.



Just wear a GoPro if you do!


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## WWF-VT (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> Exactly. I already use those trails. The one near the pond is quite fun I think.
> 
> Just a common lift ticket is all this would take.



Years ago when I first skied at Stowe when you  bought a multiple day ticket it included a common ticket to to ski at Smuggs.  I don't  think many people took advantage of that option.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 7, 2013)

WWF-VT said:


> Years ago when I first skied at Stowe when you  bought a multiple day ticket it included a common ticket to to ski at Smuggs.  I don't  think many people took advantage of that option.



I've mentioned this before but years ago Stowe used to sell single ride coupon books. Use one coupon to ride the Big Spruce chair, ski over to Madonna (that was the areas name at the time), buy a lift ticket at Madonna & ski there all day, at the end of the day take the Sterling chair up & ski back over to Spruce. Did it many times back then but now it's cost prohibitive. The coupons had no expiration & could be used anytime


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## deadheadskier (Nov 7, 2013)

There was a time when you didn't need to buy a coupon at all.  Both mountains offered 1 free lift ride and they just hole punched your ticket or if you had a season pass they gave you a coupon and just wrote your name down so you couldn't get another one that day.

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## freeski919 (Nov 7, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> I envision a bubble 6 pack to the summit, with a restaurant and zip lines as well.
> 
> A climbing wall would be a nice touch as well.
> 
> Of course, they'd have to grade and level a the more difficult terrain to accomodate the snowmaking and grooming.  But it's all for the better good.



I'm going to need some matches.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 7, 2013)

Newpylong said:


> Can still see the old lift line for this!




Just barely though....


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## thetrailboss (Nov 7, 2013)

Puck it said:


> I would like to see a peak to peak gondola over I-93 from Cannon summit to Lincoln or Lafayette Summit and a trail pod to Lincoln's throat and rest of the backside and some trails down to the gap with a tunnel under 93 to retrun.
> 
> 
> Now, that would be an expansion.



That would be frickin crazy.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I've mentioned this before but years ago Stowe used to sell single ride coupon books. Use one coupon to ride the Big Spruce chair, ski over to Madonna (that was the areas name at the time), buy a lift ticket at Madonna & ski there all day, at the end of the day take the Sterling chair up & ski back over to Spruce. Did it many times back then but now it's cost prohibitive. The coupons had no expiration & could be used anytime



I bought several single ride tickets last year at Smuggs. I love that they still offer the option.


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## ceo (Nov 7, 2013)

Way back when Cannon first announced their expansion plan, one thing that didn't end up getting built was a trail from somewhere on Middle Cannon Bypass into the top of Banshee. Suspect it'd require a lot of blasting and be hard to keep snow on, but that would be _ludicrously_ steep.


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## St. Bear (Nov 7, 2013)

ceo said:


> Way back when Cannon first announced their expansion plan, one thing that didn't end up getting built was a trail from somewhere on Middle Cannon Bypass into the top of Banshee. Suspect it'd require a lot of blasting and be hard to keep snow on, but that would be _ludicrously_ steep.



Someone posted a picture of Cannon where you can see that trail pretty clearly.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

ceo said:


> Way back when Cannon first announced their expansion plan, one thing that didn't end up getting built was a trail from somewhere on Middle Cannon Bypass into the top of Banshee. Suspect it'd require a lot of blasting and be hard to keep snow on, but that would be _ludicrously_ steep.



Unofficially yes.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Someone posted a picture of Cannon where you can see that trail pretty clearly.



Just did. see above.

Full image


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Unofficially yes.
> 
> View attachment 9464



Weird I can only see the upper left corner of this photo.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> Weird I can only see the upper left corner of this photo.



Tried to blow it up.  It did not take


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## St. Bear (Nov 7, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Just did. see above.
> 
> Full image
> 
> View attachment 9465



You ever ski that?


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## Smellytele (Nov 7, 2013)

The thinner one on the right seems to avoid the cliff section


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## dlague (Nov 7, 2013)

I would like to see the planned expansion of Ragged (Pinnacle Peak) take place since they may use the Spear Triple and then put in a HSQ on Spear mountain.

I am anxious for the West Bowl to get implemented at Jay Peak!

Also West Bowl at Burke!


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> You ever ski that?


I have not. There is a pretty sketchy section with a lot of rocks and some drops too. It needs a lot of snow.  The entrance is close to where the picnic table and grill are on Bypass.



Smellytele said:


> The thinner one on the right seems to avoid the cliff section




I have skied this one and it does avoid the bad and no real drops.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> I bought several single ride tickets last year at Smuggs. I love that they still offer the option.


Didn't know that. Still for me that wouldn't work being I come up 100 from the south. The whole idea was to save the drive between Stowe & Smuggs.


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## Smellytele (Nov 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Didn't know that. Still for me that wouldn't work being I come up 100 from the south. The whole idea was to save the drive between Stowe & Smuggs.



Smuggs probably does it because they make the money off the people staying there.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 7, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> That would be frickin crazy.


Not as crazy as you may think. Statistically, it would actually be less impressive than the Peak2Peak at 
Whistler/Blackcomb. Makes you realize how big those mtns are out there.

Peak2Peak (http://ww1.whistlerblackcomb.com/p2pg/details/) :
Total length = 2.73 miles/14,400ft
Widest span = 1.88 miles/9,280ft
Height above valley = Estimate 2400ft with no line sag, 1427ft with sag

Cannon to Lafayette:
Total length = 2.56 miles/13,500ft
Widest span = 1.45 miles/7,675ft
Height above I-93 = 2100ft with no line sag. Probably around 1500ft with sag (less sag due to shorter span)


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Not as crazy as you may think. Statistically, it would actually be less impressive than the Peak2Peak at
> Whistler/Blackcomb. Makes you realize how big those mtns are out there.
> 
> Peak2Peak (http://ww1.whistlerblackcomb.com/p2pg/details/) :
> ...



Did you save that?  Show the terrain from the north side and east side if you did.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Tried to blow it up.  It did not take



I see it now. I was looking at that entire area a few years ago on google Earth but have never made it to the mountain. Interesting how much your photo reveals compared to current satellite/aerial imagery with the leaves on the trees. Looks like a playground to me.


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## jarrodski (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> This would be a sin.


 +1


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## St. Bear (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> This would be a sin.





freeski919 said:


> I'm going to need some matches.





jarrodski said:


> +1



You people lack vision.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> I see it now. I was looking at that entire area a few years ago on google Earth but have never made it to the mountain. Interesting how much your photo reveals compared to current satellite/aerial imagery with the leaves on the trees. Looks like a playground to me.
> 
> View attachment 9467



Leaves hide a lot.  You can see a lot of the stuff of the saddle too.  Also all of the various lines below Gunsight.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 7, 2013)

Ask and ye shall receive!


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Ask and ye shall receive...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Linky, no worky.

Never mind. Work firewall problem.

Thanks.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 7, 2013)

The 2009 imagery that is n Google Earth doesn't have that shadow. Click the picture for the full size image.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> The 2009 imagery that is n Google Earth doesn't have that shadow.




Still not as clear as B&W with snow.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 7, 2013)

Yep, that is my pet peeve with aerial imagery recently. It is all leaf on. The B&W stuff in Google Earth is all from the early-mid 90's. I would love to have some leaf off for all of New England. There was a color leaf off strip through the NEK done back in late April 2006 which still had some snow at higher elevations. But it was poorly georeferenced.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Didn't know that. Still for me that wouldn't work being I come up 100 from the south. The whole idea was to save the drive between Stowe & Smuggs.



Yeah I understand. I actually park at Smuggs/108 lot on a lazy day, non-powder day and get a single ride ticket. Head up top, eat lunch at the pond and hike/skin around some side country stuff back there then at the end of the day drop down BB's and back to the car which I have waiting for me on 108.

Makes for an inexpensive and fulfilling day of skiing.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 8, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> You people lack vision.



 The Quad and Gondi are protected from the strong gusting on top of the ridge by being a couple hundred feet lower. Put a lift to the top and it would be on wind holds 1/2 the time.

Nevermind the fact that it would flood the Chin with people who can't ski it.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 8, 2013)

I think people are missing st beats sarcasm

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Huck_It_Baby (Nov 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think people are missing st beats sarcasm
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app



Oh yeah. It's way over my head.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 8, 2013)

I figured out how to suspend the line above the valley. So here are a few more angles:

From Mittersil traverse -




From Artist’s Bluff -




From Haystack -




From the Basin -




From the Old Man Viewing area next to Profile Lake -


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2013)

Dangerous for the military jets that fly through there


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## C-Rex (Nov 8, 2013)

Would be pretty cool to see a formation fly under the gondola from inside it though!


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 8, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Dangerous for the military jets that fly through there




Pffft. It doesn't seem to bother them at Jay... 







Note: This picture is FAKE! (if you couldn’t already tell)


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## wa-loaf (Nov 8, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Would be pretty cool to see a formation fly under the gondola from inside it though!



No: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/04/world/20-die-in-italy-as-us-jet-cuts-a-ski-lift-cable.html

Run the tram down to 93 with a terminal and parking lot ...


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Would be pretty cool to see a formation fly under the gondola from inside it though!



Tell that to those people a few years ago in Italy when the gondola/Tram cable got cut by a US jet and they plummeted to their death.


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Pffft. It doesn't seem to bother them at Jay...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is a little lower to the ground then this thing across 93 would be.


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## Puck it (Nov 8, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> I figured out how to suspend the line above the valley. So here are a few more angles:
> 
> From Mittersil traverse -
> 
> ...



Add some lift lines for three chairlifts.  One up from the notch to Lafayette, then one off the north and one of the east side.  


What a plan that would be.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 8, 2013)

Ok, two more insane ones then I’m done! These may require some carbon nanotube technology to pull off.
BootSpur2Wildcat (2 mile long span)




Snowfields to Wildcat (3 mile long span)


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Ok, two more insane ones then I’m done! These may require some carbon nanotube technology to pull off.
> BootSpur2Wildcat (2 mile long span)
> 
> 
> ...



Just to Lions head would work better. How about the top of Black to wildcat?  as long as we are talking crazy.


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## St. Bear (Nov 8, 2013)

I'm going to have to remember to check this thread out when I get home. None of the pictures make it through the IT Gustapo.


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## Puck it (Nov 8, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Ok, two more insane ones then I’m done! These may require some carbon nanotube technology to pull off.
> BootSpur2Wildcat (2 mile long span)
> 
> 
> ...



Those two do not do it for me.  I like my original better.


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 8, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Add some lift lines for three chairlifts.  One up from the notch to Lafayette, then one off the north and one of the east side.
> 
> 
> What a plan that would be.


The NNW side of Lafayette gets too windswept and going direct down into the notch would defeat the purpose of the Peak2Peak tram. I'd go with this layout instead...


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## Puck it (Nov 8, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> The NNW side of Lafayette gets too windswept and going direct down into the notch would defeat the purpose of the Peak2Peak tram. I'd go with this layout instead...



I know.  I can dream though. The slide and drainage off of that side looks nice though.  I like the two of the east side.  The ones to the west are a little mush I would just run one up the drainage to the summit of either mtn.


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## C-Rex (Nov 8, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Tell that to those people a few years ago in Italy when the gondola/Tram cable got cut by a US jet and they plummeted to their death.



I never said it would be safe, I just said it would be cool to see.


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I never said it would be safe, I just said it would be cool to see.



:razz:


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## snowmonster (Nov 8, 2013)

Any news on the single chair from the Joe Dodge Lodge to HoJo's? What about the t-bar from Hermit Lake to the bowl at Tux? I thought there was an EB 5 application for that. Maybe I can gin up some interest from some Asian investors.


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