# Huts in November



## T_J_Murphy (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi,

Hopefully a VFTT or ROT member will kindly answer this.

When my son had to cancel on our planned summer hut-to-hut-to-hut hike at the last minute, I foolishly promised that we could go after his football season is over.  We have all the essentials [and then some] for late spring/summer/early fall hiking but I am not sure what to expect for November.

We were looking at a two night stay at Carter Notch Hut via 19 mile brook.  From the hut we would do day trips over to Carter and/or Wildcat.

I know I need to pack food and gear to treat water.  I am already planning to purchase bavaclavas and quality winter gloves/mittens/socks.

What rating bags do we need? 0? 15?  We have nice mid weight fleece bag liners that we use as bags in the summer; what amount of temp gain [if any] could we take credit for with those?  We will sleep out on the backyard deck the weekend before we go but I would like to buy the correct bags the first time.

Do we need snowshoes? crampons?  fleece lined pants? 

Can we use our hiking boots or do we need the plastic shell types?

Does any of this change if we just hike in to the huts and skip the summits?

Thanks,
TJM


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## David Metsky (Sep 20, 2007)

For going up to Carter Dome or Wildcat A I'd want to have crampons and an axe.  There's one spot on the way to Wildcat A where there have been two significant falls in the past 10 years, each requiring a lengthy evac.  Once November comes you have to assume the trails will be icy and snow covered.  You may need crampons just to get to the hut via 19 Mile Brook, it often gets very icy.  Snowshoes are less likely to be needed, but a storm in early Nov could change all that.

Plastics aren't required, but I'd certainly want good solid boots.  If they aren't double boots you'll be sleeping with them in your sleeping bag or else they'll freeze up overnight.  On a trip like that I'd probably bring my plastics unless the weather forecast was very favorable, then I'd bring my heavy leathers.

Temps in the bunkrooms are essentially the same as outside, so you'd want to have at least a 0 degree bag. The liner bag will help, you probably will get 10-15 degrees from it.  And you can always sleep with some extra clothes on.  In the main room of the hut with a lot of people and the stove going the temps are more tolerable, but rarely get above 40 or so.  Temps on your back porch in central MA are probably 20 warmer then at the hut, at least.  Two winters ago I spend 3 days there and it barely got above 0 the whole time.

Fleece pants are very important for spending time in the hut.  You'll want a down jacket as well.  Bring several pairs of gloves and mittens and hats; they always get wet.  A solid headlamp is essential, I'd bring a second light source as well.  I never treated water up there although it comes from the nearby lake.  You can always use the boiled water from the stove; a pot is always on.

If you only go to the hut and play in the Ramparts you have less need for crampons, snowshoes, and plastic boots; but only if the weather report agrees.

 -dave-


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## montvm (Sep 20, 2007)

*Winter Gear*

Yes to Crampons,
Possibly yes to snow shoes, you can check trail reports the night before but it doesn't hurt to bring.
I say bring the warmest bags and sleeping pads you have in case you don't make the it to the hut one night, (if they're even open) someone else on this site could tell you.

Bring a tent extra food.  November can have middle of winter like conditions, and weather can change really fast in the mountains so plan it as if it was February or March hike.

If you go above tree line full face masks and ski goggles are a must mittens gloves etc.

As far as plastics, some will argue that plastics are necessary in the whites or presidential during the winter, but as far as I'm concerned water proof leather boots that are lined will be fine with heavy wool socks.

Hey, how did they do it years and years ago before plastics where even around?

Unless of course you own plastic boots, then bring both and decide when you see trail reports and weather reports.

Hope this helps
Mike


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## David Metsky (Sep 21, 2007)

montvm said:


> Hey, how did they do it years and years ago before plastics where even around?


They lost a lot of toes.

If you are staying at the hut and going up 19 Mile Brook I think carrying a tent is overkill.  If you are planning a big dayhike (out and back to Wildcat D) carrying a sleeping bag, pad, and bivy sack is a good idea.


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## Mike P. (Sep 22, 2007)

In November it could be relatively snow free or 2-3 feet.  Most likely will be icy, that stretch on Wildcat Dave mentioned can be quite tricky if icy.

Unless some odd weather, you will need at least stabiliciers (these likely over matched on Wildcat in poor conditions) in good conditions & likely crampons.  (I'd bring crampons)

Snowshoes in the car (you can rent these) & make that a trailhead condition.  I'd probably want a bag rating of 5 degrees to be safe or even colder.  Whether that was a 20 degree bag & a fleece liner or an overbag OR both, that wouldn't matter.  Can rent winter bags also,


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## montvm (Sep 26, 2007)

David Metsky said:


> They lost a lot of toes.
> 
> If you are staying at the hut and going up 19 Mile Brook I think carrying a tent is overkill.  If you are planning a big dayhike (out and back to Wildcat D) carrying a sleeping bag, pad, and bivy sack is a good idea.



Good point on the Toes.   I suppose if you can afford them then by plastics.  Can these be rented?

Just curious, i have always hiked in the winter with heavy wool socks and leather boots with liners,  but never in the Presidentials.  What would your recomendation be if you can't afford plastics?  Thanks.

As far as a tent, your right it would be over kill but basically i ment some type of protection, (bivy sack would do it too).

I never owned a bivy sack until recently so i used to do it the old fashion way, overkill with a tent.


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## walkerd2 (Sep 26, 2007)

montvm said:


> Just curious, i have always hiked in the winter with heavy wool socks and leather boots with liners,  but never in the Presidentials.  What would your recomendation be if you can't afford plastics?  Thanks.



Koflach degres are on sale here.
Think of it this way, they only cost $20 per toe. That is how I justified spending the money on them. Of course now I can't afford the gas to go hiking, but whatever.

Plastics, crampons, snowshoes, even sleeping bags and backpacks can be rented at International Mountain Equipment in North Conway.


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## Mike P. (Sep 28, 2007)

Affordable?

IME also runs a consignment shop in their basement & in the spring often the rental equipment goes on sale.  They make double leater mountaineering boots too.

many people hike in differemt things, if you have warm extremities & never stop you could get away with almost sneakers (issue with attaching traction, kahtoola's would work but strap over your foot after a while would hurt)  But if you stop if you have to spend an unplanned night stopped, fend up in alot of slush or fall through the edge of a brook, you're in trouble.


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## JohnGD33 (Oct 4, 2007)

I like to boil water and dump it into those hard plastic quart jugs and toss them in my sleeping bag to warm it up:flame:


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## MichaelJ (Oct 11, 2007)

There will be a huge kettle with a spigot on it on the stove at pretty much all times. The usual way they do it is that on the back burner it hasn't boiled yet and isn't safe, on the front burner it has and is good to use.

If you want cold water, sometimes they will have a jug of lake water that's been treated with a tsp of bleach, that's the caretaker's prerogative, and if it's going to be at or below freezing in the hut they won't likely do it.

You definitely want good traction on your feet for crossing the open slide on the Wildcat Ridge Trail just a short way above the 19-Mile Brook junction. I wouldn't go across that without a crampon or a really good snowshoe and soft snow conditions.

Hot water into a Nalgene bottle into the sleeping bag is a great idea. I'll offer one caveat: it always makes me too warm when I first get into bed, and I end up unzipping the bag, falling asleep, and waking up later waaaaay too cold.

Oh, you'll want to put your camera, headlamp, batteries, boot liners, and morning clothes in the sleeping bag with you to keep them toasty.


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