# Cheap race ski recommendations



## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah, I know. :roll: Everybody calm down. :lol: 

Might be interested in picking up something fun for groomer/hard pack days. Looking to do it on the cheap. It's my understanding that a true slalom ski is somewhere around a 13m turn radius and a GS ski is closer to 21m. I've also heard that "cheater" skis are popular and they have a turn radius of about 17m. I normally like to take somewhat faster turns, at least that's how I normally ski, but admittedly, this is usually a sloppy skidded snappy mogul kind of turn. Still, if I were to acquire a strictly groomer ski, I think I'd prefer a slightly shorter turn radius. The feel of continually rebounding out of a turn and into the next is more exciting to me than going ludicrous speed. I might be interested in hitting up some NASTAR from time to time too. Also, regarding ski length, I'm 6'1", 170 lbs., and am comfortable on ski lengths in the mid-170s. Given a particular turn radius, what's a good length?

So, anyway, given that, any recommendations? I know Volkls are known for being great on groomed. In fact, one thing I miss about my AC3s was that feel of a powerful rebound out of the turn. Most skis I've had since, while excelling in other areas, are a little dead in comparison. And I know - demo, demo, demo, but so far, most of the skis I've acquired have been based on other skier recommendations/reviews and I haven't really been let down yet so I'm willing to proceed sans demo.

I guess it's time to get my carve on...


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2010)

All I can say is :lol:


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

bvibert said:


> All I can say is :lol:



Bite me, Brian. The spandex is next. uke:


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

Has Hell frozen over???? :blink:

 Good luck! I had fun on my groomer ski last season. Probably should have kept it but it helped fund my fat ski (...that Brian will be quick to tell you is less logical and thus far, unused).


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## Grassi21 (Jan 5, 2010)

I have a pair of K2 Cabrawlers you can take off my hands...


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> Bite me, Brian. The spandex is next. uke:



I'm laughing with you buddy, but not if you get one of those spandex getups. 

I'm laughing because I've had a similar experience this season.  I feel so dirty... :lol:


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 5, 2010)

This is great.  I'd come and route you on for a NASTAR race.  Why don't you look to pick up an old pair of 5 or 6 stars?


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

BeanoNYC said:


> Why don't you look to pick up an old pair of 5 or 6 stars?



Was thinking that. Those seemed to be a go-to race ski a few years back.

Brian is just copying me. :razz:

Gonna have to tag along with WoodCore on some more trips and have him teach me how to ski. :lol:


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> Brian is just copying me. :razz:


You are the trend-setter, after all... You get mogul skis; they all get mogul skis. You get Dalbello Kryptons; they all get Dalbello Kryptons. You get Wateas; they all get Wateas. I see a pattern here...


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> Brian is just copying me. :razz:



Don't flatter yourself. :roll:



Greg said:


> Gonna have to tag along with WoodCore on some more trips and have him teach me how to ski. :lol:



Just need to get him to visit Sundown some more....


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## o3jeff (Jan 5, 2010)

severine said:


> You get Dalbello Kryptons; they all get Dalbello Kryptons.



Hey I had mine before him!:smile:


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

severine said:


> You are the trend-setter, after all... You get mogul skis; they all get mogul skis. You get Dalbello Kryptons; they all get Dalbello Kryptons. You get Wateas; they all get Wateas. I see a pattern here...



No.....mondeo is the guy we all strive to be. Believe it. :razz:


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## mondeo (Jan 5, 2010)

severine said:


> You are the trend-setter, after all... You get mogul skis; they all get mogul skis. You get Dalbello Kryptons; they all get Dalbello Kryptons. You get Wateas; they all get Wateas. I see a pattern here...


 Ahem...


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

bvibert said:


> Just need to get him to visit Sundown some more....



Or hit up the 'Hawk!


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> No.....mondeo is the guy we all strive to be. Believe it. :razz:





mondeo said:


> Ahem...



My mistake! Looks like Greg is breaking from the pack then!


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## mondeo (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> No.....mondeo is the guy we all strive to be. Believe it. :razz:


 


mondeo said:


> Ahem...


Beat me to it!


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> Or hit up the 'Hawk!



I could, but I'm too cheap for to pay for the tickets. 

What was this thread about again??


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## gmcunni (Jan 5, 2010)

Can't wait to see the trip reports for the AlpineZone team racing on Tuesday nights next season @ sundown.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2010)

See if you can find some non-racestock GS skis like Racetigers or Fischer RCs.

If you want to go racestock you can pick up used ones here: http://nemasters.org/

I'd stay away from a pure SL ski. A cheater NASTAR ski is prob the best bet. Ski-Depot has a lot of close-out skis available that would fit the bill: http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=RACECLOSEOUT


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## deadheadskier (Jan 5, 2010)

Have not skied them, but hear Fischer Progessor 9+ are great.

I would buy them if I had the dough and had not purchased 3 pairs of other skis in the past 3 years.  On my radar for 2011 though :lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/08-09-Fischer-P...QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSkiing?hash=item518f943648


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Have not skied them, but hear Fischer Progessor 9+ are great.
> 
> I would buy them if I had the dough and had not purchased 3 pairs of other skis in the past 3 years.  On my radar for 2011 though :lol:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/08-09-Fischer-P...QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSkiing?hash=item518f943648



That's not a bad price, but I got mine from Suburban Sports for $499. Greg should check with them.

Sweet ski, I've only been on the once so far. Will race with them this Thursday, but the dual radius is pretty cool. Slalom cut (13M) in front really engages the ski and makes for a nice quick turn, the GS (18m) cut lets you get out of the turn easier. You do have to be a little more conscious of where you are weighting the ski.


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> That's not a bad price, but I got mine from Suburban Sports for $499. Greg should check with them.
> 
> Sweet ski, I've only been on the once so far. Will race with them this Thursday, but the dual radius is pretty cool. Slalom cut (13M) in front really engages the ski and makes for a nice quick turn, the GS (18m) cut lets you get out of the turn easier. You do have to be a little more conscious of where you are weighting the ski.



They only have 160s left:
http://www.suburbansport.com/fis820938.html

ETA: 170s on Epic, though:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/88373/2009-fischer-progressor-9-170cm-w-bindings-new


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## roark (Jan 5, 2010)

Also consider Elan Ripsticks (used, no longer in production). I love mine for carving/NASTAR.

Used race skis can often be found cheap on other forums, but typically have a plate that requires specific bindings (eg. rossi w/ fks plate). Typically one would keep the bindings and just buy a new ski, so there is a shortage of used bindings available.

Racers often grind the bases and file edges religiously (the skis are shot due to 'maintenace' rather than actual use). Be sure enough material is left on a used pair.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2010)

roark said:


> Also consider Elan Ripsticks (used, no longer in production). I love mine for carving/NASTAR.



Seconded, used mine for NASTAR for 3 years. Hard to find though. Mine are now just my all-mtn skis. Trying to keep the Progressors just for racing.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 5, 2010)

I didn't know you have the Wateas Greg...how do you like them?  Tried my friends last year, the few runs I did on them convinced me to picks some up.  I'll be posting about it in the "out for delivery" thread next week.


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

BeanoNYC said:


> I didn't know you have the Wateas Greg...how do you like them?  Tried my friends last year, the few runs I did on them convinced me to picks some up.  I'll be posting about it in the "out for delivery" thread next week.



I like them just fine. Haven't really used them for what they are intended yet though. I do know they suck in bumps, but I have mogul skis for that. Definitely a hard charging ski. Should be fun on powder and cruddy open terrain.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> I like them just fine. Haven't really used them for what they are intended yet though. I do know they suck in bumps, but I have mogul skis for that. Definitely a hard charging ski. Should be fun on powder and cruddy open terrain.


 

What's the width?


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## Grassi21 (Jan 5, 2010)

BeanoNYC said:


> What's the width?



Greg, Brian, and Mondeo have the 94.  I have the 84.  I think wa-loaf has the 94 also.


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

Grassi21 said:


> Greg, Brian, and Mondeo have the 94.  I have the 84.  I think wa-loaf has the 94 also.



Correct! I was teasing Brian earlier that I should get the 78. Then we'll be well-rounded.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2010)

severine said:


> Correct! I was teasing Brian earlier that I should get the 78. Then we'll be well-rounded.



ERJxxxx has the 78's so we're covered. Someone needs to get the 101's. :lol:


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 5, 2010)

Did they make the 78 for 09-10, BTW?


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> ERJxxxx has the 78's so we're covered. Someone needs to get the 101's. :lol:


Brian ALMOST got those. That's what started really making the wheels turn. I was looking at the Koopmans at Suburban Sport and the dude brought out the 101s to show how long of a ski he'd go with for powder... The light started shining in B's eyes then... but he wasn't sure that was the width he really wanted. Big, burly skis, that's for sure!


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

BeanoNYC said:


> Did they make the 78 for 09-10, BTW?


Yup. Though you can get last year's for $300 at Suburban:
http://www.suburbansport.com/fiwa78flski2.html

If 181 works for you, they're only $217.50 through sierrasnowboard:
http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/Fischer-Watea-78-Skis.asp


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm sure Greg appreciates that this has turned into another Watea thread. ;-)


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## severine (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg, I know nothing about race skis. Check level nine sports. 

(Did that sufficiently bring it back on topic? )

BTW...Brian's probably mad at you now. Your post is making me miss my carver-ish skis.


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> ERJxxxx has the 78's so we're covered. Someone needs to get the 101's. :lol:





severine said:


> Brian ALMOST got those. That's what started really making the wheels turn. I was looking at the Koopmans at Suburban Sport and the dude brought out the 101s to show how long of a ski he'd go with for powder... The light started shining in B's eyes then... but he wasn't sure that was the width he really wanted. Big, burly skis, that's for sure!



It was the length that had me concerned.  I think the width would have done just fine, but 192 cm seemed like a bit much for these parts...


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## skibum9995 (Jan 5, 2010)

I love my Nordica Dobermann GSRs, they're my everyday ski, and they can be had for cheap at www.raceskis.com. As for size, go big or go home. I'm 5'6", 135, and ski the 181.


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## MR. evil (Jan 5, 2010)

One of my pre season goals this year was to work on learning how to actually carve turns.......way before Greg brought it up  
Until gunny gets bumped up I plan on spending a good amount of time on Gunny working on just that. I even plan on hitting the NASTAR course several times this season.


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## WoodCore (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> Gonna have to tag along with WoodCore on some more trips and have him teach me how to ski. :lol:



Seriously, If you guys are interested in working on carving It would be my pleasure to stop over at Sundown a few nights this season to help point you in the right direction as long as you guys buy the beer!


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## hrstrat57 (Jan 5, 2010)

My current weapon of choice....170 i supershape sw

ain't cheap tho....check with dawgcatching....you can PM him on Epic or recco you PM dawg he will break it down for you and come up with specific recco like he did for me with the i supershape.

I would 2nd choice 165 Volkl Racetiger SL

Friend of mine has Fischer RC racing 170, loved those too...I can ask him the particular model....think he got them from dawg too but not sure.....


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## MogulQueen (Jan 5, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> Can't wait to see the trip reports for the AlpineZone team racing on Tuesday nights next season @ sundown.



I raced at Sundown tonight.  I SUCKED.  I raced in my mogul skis.....that slowed me down a bit.  What's a cheater NASTAR ski?  I DEFINATELY need a pair of those!  Whose the dude willing to come down to Sundown to help with carving turns?  Let me know when that happens because I am in serious need of figuring out gates.  Shannon, local all mountain ski dude, told me to ski them like bumps, but this did NOT work out well for me.  HELP!!!  What do I need first, new skis or carving lessons?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 5, 2010)

you can be an excellent carver and suck at racing gates.  Racing is all about being early and turning way before the gate, not at the gate.


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## MogulQueen (Jan 5, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> you can be an excellent carver and suck at racing gates.  Racing is all about being early and turning way before the gate, not at the gate.



What should I aim for when turning early?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 5, 2010)

I was / am not a good racer.  I know part of the reason was that I was always late on my turns, turning at the gate, kind of like how you skid into moguls to control speed.  

This video kind of shows what I'm talking about, but I bet a good racer could explain it to you better.  Notice in the video that the change of weighting is accomplished well before the gate


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2010)

MogulQueen said:


> I raced at Sundown tonight.  I SUCKED.  I raced in my mogul skis.....that slowed me down a bit.  What's a cheater NASTAR ski?  I DEFINATELY need a pair of those!  Whose the dude willing to come down to Sundown to help with carving turns?  Let me know when that happens because I am in serious need of figuring out gates.  Shannon, local all mountain ski dude, told me to ski them like bumps, but this did NOT work out well for me.  HELP!!!  What do I need first, new skis or carving lessons?



You and Bart looked good out there tonight. I saw a little bobble out of you, but overall, you're far better than half the other women. I think a real race ski with a good tune will help you a lot. WoodCore (crazy I ride my MTB every day dude) is a great guy and a ripper and could show us all a lot. We should talk him into a private clinic and then get him trashed afterwards.

Shannon was RIPPING tonight. Fastest I've ever seen him ski.


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## MogulQueen (Jan 5, 2010)

Greg said:


> You and Bart looked good out there tonight. I saw a little bobble out of you, but overall, you're far better than half the other women. I think a real race ski with a good tune will help you a lot. WoodCore (crazy I ride my MTB every day dude) is a great guy and a ripper and could show us all a lot. We should talk him into a private clinic and then get him trashed afterwards.
> 
> Shannon was RIPPING tonight. Fastest I've ever seen him ski.



Thanks for the compliment.  I almost missed the gate on that bobble..Opps.  Also, thanks to DHS for the clip on taking gates.  That really helps me get a visual idea of what the heck I'm supposed to do.  Shannon was on fire tonight.  Maybe I'll get him to give a clinic on gates.  Alway, it was the first week.  I can only hope to get better each week.


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## drjeff (Jan 5, 2010)

MogulQueen said:


> Thanks for the compliment.  I almost missed the gate on that bobble..Opps.  Also, thanks to DHS for the clip on taking gates.  That really helps me get a visual idea of what the heck I'm supposed to do.  Shannon was on fire tonight.  Maybe I'll get him to give a clinic on gates.  Alway, it was the first week.  I can only hope to get better each week.



Two basic things racing turn concept that I had hammered into my head as I was growing up and doing the gate thing that helped me quite a bit.

1) your turn should start when you are DIRECTLY above the gate in the falline and you should have atleast 2/3rds of your turn done by the time you actually pass the gate (this is the concept of getting early that DHS was talking about) Many a recreational racer won't start their turns until they're practically at the gate and as a result end up having to "jam on the brakes" and skid their skis sideways, thus scrubbing speed to finish that turn and get to the next gate.

2) Turn shape wise.  Picture how a stream of water flows down a waterslide.  The shape of that stream is very smooth and round as it goes through a corner, NOT angular.  That's what you want your turn shape in the course to look like, smooth, round turns instead of sharp, angular turns(these angular turns often happen because you're late in starting your turn and have to jam on the edges/skid which basically puts the brakes on, in an effort to get to the next gate.

if you can do 1 and 2, against all but the highest level of racer, the line you'll be skiing will be quite different than the rutted line that will often be present on a race course.


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## riverc0il (Jan 6, 2010)

WoodCore said:


> Seriously, If you guys are interested in working on carving It would be my pleasure to stop over at Sundown a few nights this season to help point you in the right direction as long as you guys buy the beer!


That would be more valuable than finding the right ski. No joke! 

I would just check eBay for the cheapest used ski you can find. Just go to the major ski manufacturer web sites and get the names of their lines (assuming GS?). Bonus if you can get one version prior to the current version (e.g. Volkl P60 instead of RaceTiger) as once the name changes, prices go down on the used gear. I would suggest getting consumer level race skis rather than race stock. Most folks don't take their GS skis off the groomers so likely hood of damage to the ski is rather slim.


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## riverc0il (Jan 6, 2010)

MogulQueen said:


> Shannon, local all mountain ski dude, told me to ski them like bumps, but this did NOT work out well for me.  HELP!!!  What do I need first, new skis or carving lessons?


I can not imagine two types of skiing turns being more different than bumps and gates! As others have suggested, have the battle is just starting your turn well before the gate and "seeing" a few gates ahead. If you only have bump skis, you will need new skis for sure. If you have all mountain skis or carvers, they will get the job done and you need to learn technique. Race skis help for sure but the technique is more important.


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## SkiDork (Jan 6, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I can not imagine two types of skiing turns being more different than bumps and gates!



Joey Cordeau and the SVMM boys will take issue with that statement


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## SkiDork (Jan 6, 2010)

Greg - now you're talking my langauge.

I've been in love the the Fischer RC4 SL's for quite some time now.  Keep them in the running for your final decision


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## mondeo (Jan 6, 2010)

Rossi bump skis are basically soft GS skis, which more and more bump skis are going to (Volkl, Hart F17.) The tune will be completely different, with a lot more base bevel and less side bevel for bump skis (if they're ever actually tuned at all.)


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## andrec10 (Jan 6, 2010)

Not Cheap, but Rossi 80TI's. 18m raduis turn and hold on ice like crazy. Also float nicely in power and crud. If you can find last years...they are the same ski. (CX80)


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## bvibert (Jan 6, 2010)

WoodCore said:


> Seriously, If you guys are interested in working on carving It would be my pleasure to stop over at Sundown a few nights this season to help point you in the right direction as long as you guys buy the beer!



Apres beer?  We would never do that...  But, if you insist I guess we can make an exception...


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## bigbog (Jan 6, 2010)

Ski-Depot has some Clearances ...although lots of other places for prices..
2009 Ski-Depot Clearance  Another raceski is Elan SLX(friendly for a raceski I thought)...that can do the frontside.

..just a few..
Lots of good carvers out there as well, but the difference in feel between some Volkls and the rest is rather significantly felt at the end of the day..imho, but think I'm a 5'8", approaching TOG(TeamOldGuy)..LOL.
Just my $.01, and have yet to hop on the RC4s, but from skiing other Fischers I think most any Fischer raceski in the right length...will be more fun than some of Volkl's ACs...(highly subjective;-))


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