# Day tickets going through the roof in Vermont



## fbrissette (Nov 1, 2021)

I know they want us to buy a season pass but really ?

Sugarbush  185.20$
Stowe: 174.64$
Killington: 184.14$









						Some Vermont Ski Areas Are Charging Nearly $200 for a Day Ticket This Season
					






					www.compassvermont.com


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## cdskier (Nov 1, 2021)

I bought a single day Epic pass to use at Stowe this winter...$67 in September. Even right now you could still buy that for only $70. But if you wait and want to buy a window ticket...then yes, you'll pay. A LOT.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 1, 2021)

I’m about done with this sport. I can see myself heading down to the Sonoran desert for winters in a few years.


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## NYDB (Nov 1, 2021)

$180.83 at Stratton.

$637.74 for my family of four for a day of skiing on 12/29.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 1, 2021)

Well I never thought I would see Sugarbush more expensive than Stowe.  Wow.

I'd say this is a real opportunity for the smaller independent areas (what is left of them).


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## Zand (Nov 1, 2021)

Vail is $239. Is that the highest in the US?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 1, 2021)

Zand said:


> Vail is $239. Is that the highest in the US?


Deer Valley has a $249 holiday rate.


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## cdskier (Nov 1, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Well I never thought I would see Sugarbush more expensive than Stowe.  Wow.
> 
> I'd say this is a real opportunity for the smaller independent areas (what is left of them).


Even MRG is up to $97 for a day at walk up rates...


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## Abubob (Nov 1, 2021)




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## thetrailboss (Nov 1, 2021)

I did laugh at this.  



> Depending on where prices go in the future, ski resorts may have to try new slogans, like, "skiing is the new yachting."


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 2, 2021)

"Skiing..afford it if you can"


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## jimk (Nov 2, 2021)

How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


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## abc (Nov 2, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> Sugarbush 185.20$
> Stowe: 174.64$
> Killington: 184.14$


What’s with this putting the dollar sign behind the numbers? Some kind of protest?


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## Granite1 (Nov 2, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Even MRG is up to $97 for a day at walk up rates...


Ski it if you can.....afford it.


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## fbrissette (Nov 2, 2021)

abc said:


> What’s with this putting the dollar sign behind the numbers? Some kind of protest?


It's a Quebec thing.  Don't know why.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


Last season at Ski Discovery, Montana.


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## Abubob (Nov 2, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


Exactly! This is the dawning of the age of Liftopia! The age of Liftopia! Liftooopiaaaa! Liftopeeeeaaaaah!


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 2, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?



for real. if you mosey up to a major ski resort the morning you plan to ski, you get what you deserve. plan a little in advance or patronize a reasonably priced indy. this isn't news nor is it new.


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## VTKilarney (Nov 2, 2021)

It will be interesting to see what impact, if any, this has on the number of people entering the sport.  I know that there are still feeder hills, but those people are not going to want to take the once-a-year trip to Vermont now.


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## ss20 (Nov 2, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> It will be interesting to see what impact, if any, this has on the number of people entering the sport.  I know that there are still feeder hills, but those people are not going to want to take the once-a-year trip to Vermont now.



Very true.  I've got several casual skier friends who do 5ish days a year.  We can't all go to the big mountains anymore...it's nuts.  Luckily I turned them onto the Indy pass so that's a godsend.  But no more weeks renting a condo at a major resort *sigh*.


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## drjeff (Nov 2, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> It will be interesting to see what impact, if any, this has on the number of people entering the sport.  I know that there are still feeder hills, but those people are not going to want to take the once-a-year trip to Vermont now.



Just to pick on Sugarbush, since it's at the top of the pricing chart, if one scrolls to page 2 of their lessons menu, for first timers, they offer a series of 3 2 hour lessons (sounds like over 3 separate days based on the wording) , with rentals, beginner area lifts and a lesson with 1-6 people of the same level in the group for $750 ($382 for each additonal member of the same family) where upon completion of the program, one then gets an unlimited Sugarbush pass for the remainder of the season.

Is that a cost effective entity? I guess that depends on ones perspective and finanical situation. I also think that in the case if Sugarbush, chances are if a first timer is going there, it's with a group of friends traveling from outside the geographic area, so they may have some degree of disposable income to make it seem like a reasonable entry point into the sport for them


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 2, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Just to pick on Sugarbush, since it's at the top of the pricing chart, if one scrolls to page 2 of their lessons menu, for first timers, they offer a series of 3 2 hour lessons (sounds like over 3 separate days based on the wording) , with rentals, beginner area lifts and a lesson with 1-6 people of the same level in the group for $750 ($382 for each additonal member of the same family) where upon completion of the program, one then gets an unlimited Sugarbush pass for the remainder of the season.
> 
> Is that a cost effective entity? I guess that depends on ones perspective and finanical situation. I also think that in the case if Sugarbush, chances are if a first timer is going there, it's with a group of friends traveling from outside the geographic area, so they may have some degree of disposable income to make it seem like a reasonable entry point into the sport for them



my ex girlfriend did this at sugarbush and went from zero to competent beginner in a very cost effective way. we broke up years ago but she solidly intermediates at this point and went to banff the season before covid hit. program definitely made a skier, and the type who will want to pay for dumb bougie shit resorts love to sell.


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## Newpylong (Nov 2, 2021)

Good for the small to medium mountains.

I defended day ticket prices for years, having been on the inside, but this is just out of hand. Expenses have not risen to fast/much to warrant the increase.


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## boston_e (Nov 2, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


Years but that is more of a reaction to what the market is doing.

I've also not skied with certain friends in years because they have a different pass than we do and the price of going for a day to a mountain off of our pass is prohibitive.  I'd like to be able to decide to mix it up and go stay with some other friends for a weekend and ski their home mountain but not willing to spend that type of $$$ to do it.

Personally, I'm not much of a fan of the cheap pass / expensive day ticket model that the industry has moved to.


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

Yea...Sugarbush has done that "First timer to life timer" program for quite a while and it is a really good deal considering you get a season pass out of it as well. $750 may sound like a lot at first, but even many smaller mountains are often going to cost $150+ per day for lift ticket, rentals, and lessons typically. (And you don't get a free season pass at the end of of it).


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## FBGM (Nov 2, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


2 times last year. Sun Valley which was like $145 somehow. And some other smaller place in Idaho which was $46 I think and rad. 

This year I’m sure I’ll do it again here on the east in Spring


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## boston_e (Nov 2, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Just to pick on Sugarbush, since it's at the top of the pricing chart, if one scrolls to page 2 of their lessons menu, for first timers, they offer a series of 3 2 hour lessons (sounds like over 3 separate days based on the wording) , with rentals, beginner area lifts and a lesson with 1-6 people of the same level in the group for $750 ($382 for each additonal member of the same family) where upon completion of the program, one then gets an unlimited Sugarbush pass for the remainder of the season.
> 
> Is that a cost effective entity? I guess that depends on ones perspective and finanical situation. I also think that in the case if Sugarbush, chances are if a first timer is going there, it's with a group of friends traveling from outside the geographic area, so they may have some degree of disposable income to make it seem like a reasonable entry point into the sport for them


I'd say it is cost effective for those who end up loving it and using the pass for the rest of the season.

Not so cost effective who tries it, does not love it and uses just the lessons.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Just to pick on Sugarbush, since it's at the top of the pricing chart, if one scrolls to page 2 of their lessons menu, for first timers, they offer a series of 3 2 hour lessons (sounds like over 3 separate days based on the wording) , with rentals, beginner area lifts and a lesson with 1-6 people of the same level in the group for $750 ($382 for each additonal member of the same family) where upon completion of the program, one then gets an unlimited Sugarbush pass for the remainder of the season.
> 
> Is that a cost effective entity? I guess that depends on ones perspective and finanical situation. I also think that in the case if Sugarbush, chances are if a first timer is going there, it's with a group of friends traveling from outside the geographic area, so they may have some degree of disposable income to make it seem like a reasonable entry point into the sport for them


Considering that the average U.S. and Vermont individual income is about $31,000, then $750.00 up front is a lot of money.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 2, 2021)

Last season I just had to ski SB..so I bought a day ticket...it was so good and was dumping the next few days..I bought a few more..no regrets..worth every penny to get away from the hordes at Stowe..it was empty...and the food was better. Now we bought an Icon to go along with the Epic...cause I like SB more.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Last season I just had to ski SB..so I bought a day ticket...it was so good and was dumping the next few days..I bought a few more..no regrets..worth every penny to get away from the hordes at Stowe..it was empty...and the food was better. Now we bought an Icon to go along with the Epic...cause I like SB more.


The fact that you bought an IKON pass just shows that their strategy of setting a high day ticket rate works.  That is the strategy with EPIC and IKON--drive people to buy a deeply discounted season pass and commit instead of buying day tickets.  Of course you're here so like the rest of us you are not the "average" skier.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 2, 2021)

Totally agree...can't pass up a good deal..and it got me 6 days at Jackson.


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## drjeff (Nov 2, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> The fact that you bought an IKON pass just shows that their strategy of setting a high day ticket rate works.  That is the strategy with EPIC and IKON--drive people to buy a deeply discounted season pass and commit instead of buying day tickets.  Of course you're here so like the rest of us you are not the "average" skier.



The strategy that the mega passes have sure can work. Not everyone is going to like it.  And no there likely will never be an "ideal" pass for everyone that covers their desired resorts at a pricepoint they're happy with that is also a pricepoint that won't lead to lots of people buying those "ideal" passes.

There's probably a bunch of variables that the data that the resorts have about their guests and their spenidn habits while at the resort that drives their pricing decisions, and some of those variables are things that we may not fully grasp here on the boards of AZ and with what our desired usage of ski resorts and their facilities are


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## boston_e (Nov 2, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Last season I just had to ski SB..so I bought a day ticket...it was so good and was dumping the next few days..I bought a few more..no regrets..worth every penny to get away from the hordes at Stowe..it was empty...and the food was better. Now we bought an Icon to go along with the Epic...cause I like SB more.


Why keep the Epic then if you like SB more and an IKON gets you more days than anyone can use in a season?


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Why keep the Epic then if you like SB more and an IKON gets you more days than anyone can use in a season?


Pretty sure he owns a condo near Stowe. So unless he wants to drive to SB every day he wants to ski, having Epic makes sense.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 2, 2021)

yup..and now that I will be retired in December..I will have a bit more time on my hands.


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## NYDB (Nov 2, 2021)

How old are you slug?  I would guess mid fifty’s by your posts but dont know for sure.  That’s a nice age for retirement.


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## WWF-VT (Nov 2, 2021)

The nearly $200 per day walk up ticket price is only for people dumb enough or rich enough to pay that price.

Just for kicks I looked up single day advance purchase lift ticket prices at Sugarbush with All Mountain tickets at a high of $139 on weekends with plenty of days available at $109 and $119.  Mt Ellen only tickets range from $50 to $79.


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## Hawk (Nov 2, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> I know they want us to buy a season pass but really ?
> 
> Sugarbush  185.20$
> Stowe: 174.64$
> ...


I think that article is misleading.  I just took screen captures now and it is nothing like that at Sugarbush.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

WWF-VT said:


> The nearly $200 per day walk up ticket price is only for people dumb enough or rich enough to pay that price.
> 
> Just for kicks I looked up single day advance purchase lift ticket prices at Sugarbush with All Mountain tickets at a high of $139 on weekends with plenty of days available at $109 and $119.  Mt Ellen only tickets range from $50 to $79.


I was going to ask about plans for Mount Ellen and pricing/opening dates.


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## boston_e (Nov 2, 2021)

Hawk said:


> I think that article is misleading.  I just took screen captures now and it is nothing like that at Sugarbush.


I think $185.20 is the walk up window rate.  The pre-purchase rates are lower.


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## boston_e (Nov 2, 2021)

WWF-VT said:


> The nearly $200 per day walk up ticket price is only for people dumb enough or rich enough to pay that price.
> 
> Just for kicks I looked up single day advance purchase lift ticket prices at Sugarbush with All Mountain tickets at a high of $139 on weekends with plenty of days available at $109 and $119.  Mt Ellen only tickets range from $50 to $79.


Sure but do those prices go up as it gets closer?  And what if someone pre-purchases their $139 lift ticket and it ends up raining?  I can see why the occasional skiers are deciding to pass on the sport.

As for me, I'd likely never buy day tickets at that price to ski outside of my pass.  (Again to my point from earlier about friends not skiing together anymore if they have different pass products)


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

boston_e said:


> I think $185.20 is the walk up window rate.  The pre-purchase rates are lower.


According to Sugarbush's website...there are no walk-up purchases period this year for lift tickets. All must be purchased online. The highest online price right now is $139 which they list as an 18% savings. That puts the full ticket price as $169. So where is the $185.20 coming from?


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Sure but do those prices go up as it gets closer?  And what if someone pre-purchases their $139 lift ticket and it ends up raining?  I can see why the occasional skiers are deciding to pass on the sport.
> 
> As for me, I'd likely never buy day tickets at that price to ski outside of my pass.  (Again to my point from earlier about friends not skiing together anymore if they have different pass products)


Yes the prices go up not just as you get closer, but as they "sell out" of tickets in each tier. They only sell a certain amount at each price point and then the price increases. But it never increases beyond what the "0% savings" rate would be...which if my math is right based on the prices listed available now, comes to $169.


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

Ahhh....taxes aren't included in the listed rates. So 169 + tax comes to 179.14 (which is still a bit short of their listed amounts from the article...maybe they're also including the $5 fee to get an RFID card if you don't already have one?)


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## boston_e (Nov 2, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Ahhh....taxes aren't included in the listed rates. So 169 + tax comes to 179.14 (which is still a bit short of their listed amounts from the article...maybe they're also including the $5 fee to get an RFID card if you don't already have one?)



That math seems like it works.  So yeah, for the occasional skier who did not save his RFID card it could be $185 ish to ski for a day if he waits to buy a ticket a day or two in advance.  Crazy.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 2, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> Totally agree...can't pass up a good deal..and it got me 6 days at Jackson.


Jackson has been ruined by the IKON pass crowding.


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## abc (Nov 2, 2021)

You guys are all commenting from the point of view of having live (or have a second home) within day trip distance. 

For those "resorts" in the Epic/Ikon group, they're mostly focusing on people who're "vacationing". For them, lift ticket is only one of the many items they have to spend money on, AND BOOK IN ADVANCE. I have friends who fall into that category. Their perspective when I ask them? 1) They tend NOT to shop for mountains based on price, 2) they tend to either get a lift ticket deal from lodging or buy in advance. So the day ticket price hike doesn't really hit them directly. 

 Locals who want to ski a particular mountain on a whim? Vail/Alterra don't want you. You don't buy lunch with drinks. You don't rent skis and pay for full day lessons. You're not a "profit center". You just take up capacity!  Fortunately for those of you, there're always a few local mountains nearby that you can go to. There won't be half as big a lift line also. So just don't bother joining the crowds in the mega resorts.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

boston_e said:


> I think $185.20 is the walk up window rate.  The pre-purchase rates are lower.


That's my read as well.


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## fbrissette (Nov 2, 2021)

abc said:


> You guys are all commenting from the point of view of having live (or have a second home) within day trip distance.
> 
> For those "resorts" in the Epic/Ikon group, they're mostly focusing on people who're "vacationing". For them, lift ticket is only one of the many items they have to spend money on, AND BOOK IN ADVANCE. I have friends who fall into that category. Their perspective when I ask them? 1) They tend NOT to shop for mountains based on price, 2) they tend to either get a lift ticket deal from lodging or buy in advance. So the day ticket price hike doesn't really hit them directly.
> 
> Locals who want to ski a particular mountain on a whim? Vail/Alterra don't want you. You don't buy lunch with drinks. You don't rent skis and pay for full day lessons. You're not a "profit center". You just take up capacity!  Fortunately for those of you, there're always a few local mountains nearby that you can go to. There won't be half as big a lift line also. So just don't bother joining the crowds in the mega resorts.


I have a season pass.  As others have said, it would be nice to go ski with friends who also have a season pass at another resort.  But I won't book weeks ahead cause conditions/weather could be shitty.  So, personnaly, I would like the opportunity to buy a last-minute lift ticket at a reasonable window rate.


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## jimk (Nov 2, 2021)

$50 for Mt. Ellen is the bomb!
Exterminator Glades:


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> I have a season pass.  As others have said, it would be nice to go ski with friends who also have a season pass at another resort.  But I won't book weeks ahead cause conditions/weather could be shitty.  So, personnaly, I would like the opportunity to buy a last-minute lift ticket at a reasonable window rate.


That's one area where I do like Epic's "Day pass" idea. You can buy a single day ticket pass that you can use at any time for a reasonable price. You do need to buy early, but at least you don't have to commit to a specific date.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 2, 2021)

jimk said:


> $50 for Mt. Ellen is the bomb!


$28 for a Mt. Ellen ticket on Valentines Day. My girlfriend probably won’t be happy but thats a deal I can’t refuse.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

I also love Sugarbush North!


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## faceplant (Nov 2, 2021)

They're using a western pricing model for the east- but out west conditions are pretty predictable while in the east rain happens, alot- you think customers are gonna pay those prices to ski in the rain here? keep dreaming, nobody likes a cold wet ass
These areas better be praying for great conditions cuz if not folks will be driving right past to non greedy areas
But maybe thats their plan- less crowds for dummies willing to pay thru the nose- obviously they couldnt care less about the rest of us


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## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

faceplant said:


> They're using a western pricing model for the east- but out west conditions are pretty predictable while in the east rain happens, alot- you think customers are gonna pay those prices to ski in the rain here? keep dreaming, nobody likes a cold wet ass
> These areas better be praying for great conditions cuz if not folks will be driving right past to non greedy areas
> But maybe thats their plan- less crowds for dummies willing to pay thru the nose- obviously they couldnt care less about the rest of us


But they won't drive by.  Especially if they have the respective multi-resort season pass.  That's the point.


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## NYDB (Nov 2, 2021)

faceplant said:


> They're using a western pricing model for the east- but out west conditions are pretty predictable while in the east rain happens, alot- you think customers are gonna pay those prices to ski in the rain here? keep dreaming, nobody likes a cold wet ass
> These areas better be praying for great conditions cuz if not folks will be driving right past to non greedy areas
> But maybe thats their plan- less crowds for dummies willing to pay thru the nose- obviously they couldnt care less about the rest of us


I know a lot of friends who do book holiday weeks in the east way in advance.  Tickets and lodging.  10 day /yr skiers. Kids, etc.   it’s pricey and I would hazard a guess they get shitty conditions more than 1/2 the time.  Crazy low temps are the worst.  They can deal with warm and rain.  Kids usually Have fun regardless and the adults just start drinking earlier. 

if You are beholden to school schedules, you can’t wait to make sure you have good conditions to book vacations even in the east.  At least usually.  Don’t know if COVID will have any effect.


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## WWF-VT (Nov 2, 2021)

Middlebury Snow Bowl 2021-2022 Adult Weekday Tickets are $40 Weekdays and $60 Weekends and Holidays - great deal for day tickets at one of my favorite non resort mountains in VT.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 2, 2021)

I think what I'd like to see is the return of banding together as an industry.  You want to go crazy with the last minute pay out the ass price model?  Ok that's fine.  Lots of things in life have "surge" pricing at the last minute and peak times.

But this whole Ikon/Epic cut throat business model just kinda sucks.  Sure ski resorts have always been competitive with one another.  But, there had always been numerous options of the mountains agreeing to some lost leader type products that get the casual skier to their mountain and if they deliver a good enough product, maybe you luck out and sell that family passes the next season.

Bring back the ski VT 3 and 5 packs.  

SkiNH had 4-5 mountain group ticket packages. Can't find information on their website on pricing and it wasn't the SkiVT steal, but it was something.  They go on sale 11/6.  Will be interesting to see what they offer. 

Fox44 cards

And lastly and perhaps most importantly, the ski club deals.  The history behind New England ski clubs is really something cool that should be preserved.  They tended to have a local social component in the flatlands that helped people try the sport affordably.  All of these clubs are gonna die it seems.  

Maybe I'll find my way back to the Evil empire again.  Maybe I'll look at Alterra/Ikon. I'm in no rush though.  And I kinda hope they crumble like ASC and Intrawest before them.  

 For now, Indy just feels more in tune with my values.


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## cdskier (Nov 2, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I think what I'd like to see is the return of banding together as an industry.  You want to go crazy with the last minute pay out the ass price model?  Ok that's fine.  Lots of things in life have "surge" pricing at the last minute and peak times.
> 
> But this whole Ikon/Epic cut throat business model just kinda sucks.  Sure ski resorts have always been competitive with one another.  But, there had always been numerous options of the mountains agreeing to some lost leader type products that get the casual skier to their mountain and if they deliver a good enough product, maybe you luck out and sell that family passes the next season.
> 
> Bring back the ski VT 3 and 5 packs.


Is the Ski VT 4 pack not a decent compromise? $194 for 4 tickets is a pretty decent deal (and even the evil empire resorts are still included!). Expected to go on sale sometime in early November


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## deadheadskier (Nov 2, 2021)

Didn't realize those were still available.


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## Not Sure (Nov 2, 2021)

Abubob said:


> Exactly! This is the dawning of the age of Liftopia! The age of Liftopia! Liftooopiaaaa! Liftopeeeeaaaaah!


Haha Aquarius ....Is Liftopia is going  to win back the places they stuck? ....No Way . They'll sell tickets on their own sites .


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 3, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> How old are you slug?  I would guess mid fifty’s by your posts but dont know for sure.  That’s a nice age for retirement.


57..a little early but I can't stand NYC anymore...and my union is pretty much mostly here..who knows..might come out of retirement at some point up in VT ..but for now..need a break.


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## Smellytele (Nov 3, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Haha Aquarius ....Is Liftopia is going  to win back the places they stuck? ....No Way . They'll sell tickets on their own sites .


I thought Abubob was a Scorpio. ???


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## Abubob (Nov 3, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I thought Abubob was a Scorpio. ???


You’re thinking of Serpico but I really look more like Andy Garcia.


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## Zand (Nov 3, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Is the Ski VT 4 pack not a decent compromise? $194 for 4 tickets is a pretty decent deal (and even the evil empire resorts are still included!). Expected to go on sale sometime in early November


I think the Fox 44 passes are still a thing too, although last year they didnt do them so we'll see if Covid killed that pass permanently or not. Back in 2019 they lowered the price to like $85 or something crazy like that in mid March.

A lot of the Fox 44 resorts are on the Indy so that might also be a problem for it continuing.


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## machski (Nov 3, 2021)

faceplant said:


> They're using a western pricing model for the east- but out west conditions are pretty predictable while in the east rain happens, alot- you think customers are gonna pay those prices to ski in the rain here? keep dreaming, nobody likes a cold wet ass
> These areas better be praying for great conditions cuz if not folks will be driving right past to non greedy areas
> But maybe thats their plan- less crowds for dummies willing to pay thru the nose- obviously they couldnt care less about the rest of us


BINGO!  But then again, this is WHY Eastern resorts have rapidly tilted tot he Western model to drive prepurchased lower cost pass and prepurchased ticket packs or even unrestricted single day tickets ahead of the season.  The old model of expensive passes but reasonable walk up ticket prices caused too many huge revenvue swings depending on the weather each season.  So you planned to install that new shiny HSQ next season but the lead up season had a lot of R storms on the weekends with Powder mostly midweek?  Well, that sucks because your revenues and thus profit to reivest in the offseason just took a major beating.  So, do you  push ahead with that lift and hope you can swing added financing because of the revenue gap?  Do you push it off, potentially paying a lift manufactureer for that depending on your contract and negative press that might generate?  These were the old decisions.

Now, the revenue stream stays more consistent (at least on the ticket side of the equation).  Resorts can better plan for future outlays for new/upgraded assets on the hill.  One bad season doesn't necessarily send them scrambling to regroup and realign.  I think you can see that most clearly from Vail and Boyne's lift upgrade plans already announced across their portfolios.  This after a chopped season from Covid in 19-20 and a different season in 20-21.  The only operator to not reinstate all their planned pre covid lift upgrades is Alterra (no word on Mammoth's two quads to 6's for example, or Tremblant's expansion plans.  All seem still tabled while they press ahead with the Alpine-Olympic interconnect and the Steamboat transformation).  I'm sure its a matter of time before Alterra announces more plans, but if not, I will take that to mean their pricing strategy for Ikon vs Epic's lowered may not have been fruitful.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 3, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


At least 10 years and I have only had season passes for 3 and have never paid full price for my daughters in their 8 years of skiing. Couldn't care less what the "sucker" rate is. People too rich to bother spending 5 minutes googling for a deal subsidize it for the rest of us, which is fine.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 3, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> At least 10 years and I have only had season passes for 3 and have never paid full price for my daughters in their 8 years of skiing. Couldn't care less what the "sucker" rate is. People too rich to bother spending 5 minutes googling for a deal subsidize it for the rest of us, which is fine.


Those deals aren’t deals if you spend your weekends standing around in 45 minute lift lines now being…..the sucker from the city who thinks they got a deal.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 3, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Those deals aren’t deals if you spend your weekends standing around in 45 minute lift lines now being…..the sucker from the city who thinks they got a deal.


Since you can get better than window deal websites at a huge variety of mountains I don't think findingnbetter than window deals ever led to longer lines.  

Is your point that Epic Pass places tend to have longer lines? Sure. But I guess that either makes other places less crowded or increases the amount people ski. Can't say those are bad side effects for skiers.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 3, 2021)

machski said:


> BINGO!  But then again, this is WHY Eastern resorts have rapidly tilted tot he Western model to drive prepurchased lower cost pass and prepurchased ticket packs or even unrestricted single day tickets ahead of the season.  The old model of expensive passes but reasonable walk up ticket prices caused too many huge revenvue swings depending on the weather each season.  So you planned to install that new shiny HSQ next season but the lead up season had a lot of R storms on the weekends with Powder mostly midweek?  Well, that sucks because your revenues and thus profit to reivest in the offseason just took a major beating.  So, do you  push ahead with that lift and hope you can swing added financing because of the revenue gap?  Do you push it off, potentially paying a lift manufactureer for that depending on your contract and negative press that might generate?  These were the old decisions.
> 
> Now, the revenue stream stays more consistent (at least on the ticket side of the equation).  Resorts can better plan for future outlays for new/upgraded assets on the hill.  One bad season doesn't necessarily send them scrambling to regroup and realign.  I think you can see that most clearly from Vail and Boyne's lift upgrade plans already announced across their portfolios.  This after a chopped season from Covid in 19-20 and a different season in 20-21.  The only operator to not reinstate all their planned pre covid lift upgrades is Alterra (no word on Mammoth's two quads to 6's for example, or Tremblant's expansion plans.  All seem still tabled while they press ahead with the Alpine-Olympic interconnect and the Steamboat transformation).  I'm sure its a matter of time before Alterra announces more plans, but if not, I will take that to mean their pricing strategy for Ikon vs Epic's lowered may not have been fruitful.



Very solid explanation of how the strategy covers maintaining a steady revenue stream in a weather volatile business to plan future short term development. 

But does that strategy also promote participation growth to match those future increases in operational expenses from that development?

If it doesn't, where does that leave us when the boomers can no longer ski and the next generation can't replace the numbers?

This discussion to me isn't about how to fund shiny new things.   It's about preventing more rusty things on NELSAP. 

Somebody said it above, "Is skiing the new yachting?"


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## abc (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Somebody said it above, "Is skiing the new yachting?"


While hatching is mostly a pastime for the well to do, there’re actually quite some blue collar participation too. You just don’t see them at the prime location marinas.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 4, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Since you can get better than window deal websites at a huge variety of mountains I don't think findingnbetter than window deals ever led to longer lines.
> 
> Is your point that Epic Pass places tend to have longer lines? Sure. But I guess that either makes other places less crowded or increases the amount people ski. Can't say those are bad side effects for skiers.


Ya, mostly talking about the super passes. I think it’s obvious that they are beginning to lose their value.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 4, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Ya, mostly talking about the super passes. I think it’s obvious that they are beginning to lose their value.


Augmented my Epic Local with an Indy this year to have alternatives when lines are likely to get long. Even paying for both is a great deal compared to older models of paying for skiing. 

Including my 2 years on super passes, my prior year with Blue Mt passes, and various deals I found for my kids and I, I have generally kept the cost of lift tickets for my kids and I under $20/person/day for the 8 seasons they have skies with me and am confident I will do the same for their 9th season coming up. About the price of taking them to a movie, splitting a popcorn and each getting a soda.

It is not surprising that such an exhilarating and affordable pastime is popular enough that there are some lines. At least the payoff to frustration ratio way blows aways diversions like amusement parks in the summer.


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Very solid explanation of how the strategy covers maintaining a steady revenue stream in a weather volatile business to plan future short term development.
> 
> But does that strategy also promote participation growth to match those future increases in operational expenses from that development?
> 
> ...


Sort of to this point - do these super passes increase the actual number of skiers or just the number of skier visits?  (Someone who may have previously gone 8 days on day tickets now going 20 days since it does not add cost when they are using a cheap pass adds to the lines etc but does not attract new skiers from the next generation)


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 4, 2021)

To me the math is simple..if a Stowe only pass used to cost 2K..and now you can get an epic for under 1K and go all over the place..how could it not attract new skiers and boarders?


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## eatskisleep (Nov 4, 2021)

boston_e said:


> I think $185.20 is the walk up window rate.  The pre-purchase rates are lower.


How far in advance do you need to purchase though? Not everyone wants to book a week+ in advance when weather/conditions could be questionable.


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> To me the math is simple..if a Stowe only pass used to cost 2K..and now you can get an epic for under 1K and go all over the place..how could it not attract new skiers and boarders?



If you have never skied or snowboarded before are you going to lay down $1K for a season pass to try it out?


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> How far in advance do you need to purchase though? Not everyone wants to book a week+ in advance when weather/conditions could be questionable.


That is the exact problem... and why i never ski anywhere off of my pass, which is a bummer when trying to connect with friends who have a different pass.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 4, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> To me the math is simple..if a Stowe only pass used to cost 2K..and now you can get an epic for under 1K and go all over the place..how could it not attract new skiers and boarders?



It might attract new skiers to THEIR properties, but not new people to the sport.  Skiing requires a heavy initial investment.  My guess is very few people just hop into the sport with a pass.  

Now if Stowe offered a day pass + lesson + rentals for say $150 (still expensive), that might get more people to give the sport a try. 

But for Joe flatlander who knows very little and looks at the website and sees it's gonna be $150+ rentals + lesson on top.  That's likely a nonstarter. And they may not know about the affordable feeder hills.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 4, 2021)

boston_e said:


> If you have never skied or snowboarded before are you going to lay down $1K for a season pass to try it out?


I'm thinking more of families. But recently I started racing a motorcycle up near Oneonta. There are only 2 tracks that you can do this on a regular basis like this..one there and one in NJ. The owner sells out season passes at 3K in a day..He said he had so many first timers after 1 day doing it ( its not competitive racing) sign up for a season pass...
so...I guess there could also be a percentage of first timers doing the same after a few times if they get hooked.


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> It might attract new skiers to THEIR properties, but not new people to the sport.  Skiing requires a heavy initial investment.  My guess is very few people just hop into the sport with a pass.
> 
> Now if Stowe offered a day pass + lesson + rentals for say $150 (still expensive), that might get more people to give the sport a try.
> 
> But for Joe flatlander who knows very little and looks at the website and sees it's gonna be $150+ rentals + lesson on top.  That's likely a nonstarter. And they may not know about the affordable feeder hills.


Agree - I think the cheap season passes probably encourages the occasional skier to ski more often (adding to the crowding issues we see) but may not help attract first timers to the sport.


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## cdskier (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> It might attract new skiers to THEIR properties, but not new people to the sport.  Skiing requires a heavy initial investment.  My guess is very few people just hop into the sport with a pass.
> 
> Now if Stowe offered a day pass + lesson + rentals for say $150 (still expensive), that might get more people to give the sport a try.
> 
> But for Joe flatlander who knows very little and looks at the website and sees it's gonna be $150+ rentals + lesson on top.  That's likely a nonstarter. And they may not know about the affordable feeder hills.



I don't buy this last argument. How many people in the past just randomly on their own decided to try skiing? Probably very few. Even when day tickets were $30-40, by the time you add rentals and lessons you were still easily over $100 which was a lot of money for many people say even just 10-20 years ago. Most people are introduced to the sport by someone else (family, friends, etc). So those family/friends should be the ones telling them how/where to get the best deals to try it out.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 4, 2021)

My first wife pretty much said..I ski..in the winter. So if you don't want to try and learn you will be home and I will be skiing. So I spent a year learning..the hard way but eventually got the hang of it..and got hooked. I had tried it in the past but found it miserable. She taught me...and now..I tend to do it a lot. I would not have done this on my own though.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I don't buy this last argument. How many people in the past just randomly on their own decided to try skiing? Probably very few. Even when day tickets were $30-40, by the time you add rentals and lessons you were still easily over $100 which was a lot of money for many people say even just 10-20 years ago. Most people are introduced to the sport by someone else (family, friends, etc). So those family/friends should be the ones telling them how/where to get the best deals to try it out.



I don't disagree with that.  But if those friends that have Epic / Ikon they're probably inviting the newby to join them.  Not saying hey, go ski Nashoba by yourself and if you like it, come ski Stowe with me the next time. 

Maybe the solution is to offer a pass holder referral package.  Tell pass holders they can invite new people for a killer package price.


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## cdskier (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I don't disagree with that.  But if those friends that have Epic / Ikon they're probably inviting the newby to join them.  Not saying hey, go ski Nashoba by yourself and if you like it, come ski Stowe with me the next time.
> 
> Maybe the solution is to offer a pass holder referral package.  Tell pass holders they can invite new people for a killer package price.


I'd agree that something like that would make sense.

At the same time, I'd never invite a newbie to come ski with me at Sugarbush unless they were very serious about wanting to ski and then I'd direct them to the SB "First timer to life timer" program. If they were unsure, I'd definitely be recommending they try skiing at a smaller/feeder hill (unless they were rich and had money to waste).

But let's not also kid ourselves...skiing has long had a high entry price for a random person that needed a lift ticket and rentals and a lesson. This is not some new phenomenon. The high window prices make it "seem" worse, but at the same time, information on discounts and deals is also much easier to access today. 20-30 years ago you were probably more likely to pay the walk up rate because the information wasn't as easy to find online (or you didn't even have Internet...or if you go back further, Internet didn't even exist).

I really have a hard time feeling bad for someone that just randomly decides to walk up to a ski area one day with doing no research ahead of time. I'd say the same thing for someone that just randomly goes to a car dealer and overpays because they have no idea what to expect a particular model car to actually sell for.


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## drjeff (Nov 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I'd agree that something like that would make sense.
> 
> At the same time, I'd never invite a newbie to come ski with me at Sugarbush unless they were very serious about wanting to ski and then I'd direct them to the SB "First timer to life timer" program. If they were unsure, I'd definitely be recommending they try skiing at a smaller/feeder hill (unless they were rich and had money to waste).
> 
> ...



And I would guess that the majority of skiers were likely introduced to the sport by family members or school based evening programs and then probaly 3rd by friends who are skiers

I can only imagine what a daunting proposition wanting to learn to ski would be if someone didn't have some family/peer who was already involved in the sport to help them at the beginning, and not just from a learn to ski perspective


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## crank (Nov 4, 2021)

When I started skiing, 59-years ago, yikes!  Old I am.  Nobody in my family skied nor did anyone I knew.  As I became a teenager and started finding skiing buddies it was split about 50/50 between those who had skiing families and guys like me who just tried it and stuck with it.

I agree it's harder and harder to get into it, afford it, navigate the gear etc..

Not sure how if if that old 60's vibe can be brought back.  For me it was seeing the winter olympics and then there was this old Timex watch commercial with a guy skiing with a watch strapped to his boards.  "Takes a licking and keeps on ticking."


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## 1dog (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> It might attract new skiers to THEIR properties, but not new people to the sport.  Skiing requires a heavy initial investment.  My guess is very few people just hop into the sport with a pass.
> 
> Now if Stowe offered a day pass + lesson + rentals for say $150 (still expensive), that might get more people to give the sport a try.
> 
> But for Joe flatlander who knows very little and looks at the website and sees it's gonna be $150+ rentals + lesson on top.  That's likely a nonstarter. And they may not know about the affordable feeder hills.


The comparison might be better couched in inflation.

How much are pro sports tickets now? 3 hour game at Gillette 2 tickets - $600?

Had Bruins season tickets in the 90's for the price some people pay for a playoff game ( including me), house prices in the early 80's $50K-$80K in eastern MA, lift tickets $40 - I paid $12 for half day in March of '82 at K-Mart when I started - rentals $12. I earned  maybe $20-$25K

Only thing that has gone in reverse are ( mostly) unregulated electronics and gas - it was a buck in 1980, s/b approx $6 if it followed housing. 

Concerts at 2-3 hours no one has a problem dropping $150 each.  Dinner out at a nice establishment? $150-$200. 

Its always been a reach for the middle class, always will be, and it's priorities. 

Familes can camp, hike and ski together, not so much baseball or hockey. Or even tennis. Feeder hills are still the. lifeblood. Get people hooked and they drop other things and have priorities. 

Lots of upper middle class people spend a boatload on a family cruise ( I can't understand that) or a beach house rental for a week and drop $10K, and skiing isn't really more than that.  

Priorities. . . . . .


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## drjeff (Nov 4, 2021)

1dog said:


> The comparison might be better couched in inflation.
> 
> How much are pro sports tickets now? 3 hour game at Gillette 2 tickets - $600?
> 
> ...



I also look at my recreation based disposable income dollars by comapring my 2 primary sports, skiing and golf, which combined give me something to do 52 weeks a year!

My Epic pass costs me $600 or so currently. Last year I skied 66 days (most on my Epic pass).  My Country Club membership costs me about $2500 and to date I have played 62 rounds of golf (with about as many rounds of golf not played at my home club as days I skied last year and didn't use my Epic pass) - My skiing per day costs are still much lower than my golfing per day costs. I probably spend close to as much $$ per year on new ski gear as I do new golf gear.

The reality is that there are a ton of sports/recreational activitivities that we participate in that do have notable costs associated with them (from boating to ATV's, mountain and road bikes, etc, etc,, etc) and in the end we all (or certainly most of us) seem to feel that it's a reasonable value for the enjoyment we derrive from it, and then often we are able to pass that enjoyment on to others, who may then also choose to take up that sport/activity


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## ThatGuy (Nov 4, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> I'm thinking more of families. But recently I started racing a motorcycle up near Oneonta. There are only 2 tracks that you can do this on a regular basis like this..one there and one in NJ. The owner sells out season passes at 3K in a day..He said he had so many first timers after 1 day doing it ( its not competitive racing) sign up for a season pass...
> so...I guess there could also be a percentage of first timers doing the same after a few times if they get hooked.


Tonys? My buddy rides there sometimes.


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

I agree - for all of us there are activities that we accept are just going to cost some money.

Golf is an interesting comparison.  Anecdotally, I just looked at a couple of courses near me.  Season passes at both are about $2000, yet daily greens fees are about $70.  As an occasional golfer I am willing to pony up $70 to play with some friends a couple of times a summer.  I’d never go if it was $180 for the day.  Likewise I am not a candidate for a golf season pass even if a season pass were $800.

I’d imagine there are occasional skiers in a similar boat to my golfing who just don’t ski anymore because of what the pricing model has become.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2021)

I just got the latest SKI Magazine and there is an opinion article as to discounted season pass products that is relevant to this discussion.  I will see if I can post it.  The main point: people buy IKON or EPIC with aspirations of doing all of these trips to different resorts and due to time and money limitations that does not happen.  Instead, they use their pass locally and increase traffic at local ski areas.  The author's other point was that the market demanded this cheap multimountain product. There is some truth to both of these statements.


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## cdskier (Nov 4, 2021)

Golf is an interesting comparison. With golf, there's a huge range of prices (just like with skiing). There are absolutely some courses that cost a lot of money to play. Then there are others that are very cheap. For example where I live in NJ, you can play at the county courses for $35 on the weekend as a county resident (plus a $40 registration fee that is valid for the season). You can also skip the registration fee if you plan to play only once, but then your daily weekend rate goes up to $60/day. So if you plan to play at least 2 days, it makes sense to register and pay the $40.

The point though is that there again are options depending on what you want to pay. If you want to play at a fancy course (or ski a big name resort), you'll pay high daily rates. You can't expect to be able to play any course you want for a low daily rate, but options at low price points DO exist.


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## machski (Nov 4, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Very solid explanation of how the strategy covers maintaining a steady revenue stream in a weather volatile business to plan future short term development.
> 
> But does that strategy also promote participation growth to match those future increases in operational expenses from that development?
> 
> ...


I do agree to some extent with this.  The question is how to manage the "intro" ticket then.  Obviously you don't want a super low day ticket window rate, as that would encourage many back to day tickets in an effort to chase conditions beyond the newbies.  

Probably what they need to do is offer new skier packages or tickets that are restricted to certain lifts at a discounted price that is easier to enter on.  With RFID cards, that should be much easier to screen those lifts out.  Then probably after so many lesson/tickets at those rates, offer one of the pass options as an add at that time to try to lock them in (maybe even at the early season rate for a restricted pass).  I don't know the full answer, but I do know cheap day tickets are never coming back at the window day of.


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## machski (Nov 4, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> My first wife pretty much said..I ski..in the winter. So if you don't want to try and learn you will be home and I will be skiing. So I spent a year learning..the hard way but eventually got the hang of it..and got hooked. I had tried it in the past but found it miserable. She taught me...and now..I tend to do it a lot. I would not have done this on my own though.


Worked the opposite for my dad.  He had ski patrolled an everything before he met my mom, then gave it up.  I wasn't until I hit the preteens and we dug up dad's old patrol belts and equipment in the basement that we got pissed he had skied and hadn't yet taught us.  Two more years til I was 12 before we convinced mom to let dad teach us.  So sometimes the kiddos have to push the parents


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 4, 2021)

Hunter used to offer a deal for newbies that restricted them to Hunter one...also incentive to you for bringing someone new. Don't know if they still do it.


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> I just got the latest SKI Magazine and there is an opinion article as to discounted season pass products that is relevant to this discussion.  I will see if I can post it.  The main point: people buy IKON or EPIC with aspirations of doing all of these trips to different resorts and due to time and money limitations that does not happen.  Instead, they use their pass locally and increase traffic at local ski areas.  The author's other point was that the market demanded this cheap multimountain product. There is some truth to both of these statements.


It would also be Interesting to know what percentage of the passes go unused or minimally used?  How many people don’t “justify the cost of their pass” by skiing enough days?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2021)

boston_e said:


> It would also be Interesting to know what percentage of the passes go unused or minimally used?  How many people don’t “justify the cost of their pass” by skiing enough days?


The author is a former industry insider.  He said that data shows that people expect to go 20-25 days, but instead average 8-12.  The crowding is from the large volume of passes sold, the fact that everyone uses their passes on the same dates, and to some extent because they don't use the resorts in the network but focus on local places in network.


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## crank (Nov 4, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> I just got the latest SKI Magazine and there is an opinion article as to discounted season pass products that is relevant to this discussion.  I will see if I can post it.  The main point: people buy IKON or EPIC with aspirations of doing all of these trips to different resorts and due to time and money limitations that does not happen.  Instead, they use their pass locally and increase traffic at local ski areas.  The author's other point was that the market demanded this cheap multimountain product. There is some truth to both of these statements.


Well we bought our Ikon passes with the intention to do both.  Jackson Hole booked and reserved.  Will do a storm chase out to SLC.  Couple of long weekends booked at Sugarbush.  Will day trip Windham.  Was already planning on Dolomites trip in March now on Ikon pass!  Plans to meet some folks from that other forum at Killington late March.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2021)

crank said:


> Well we bought our Ikon passes with the intention to do both.  Jackson Hole booked and reserved.  Will do a storm chase out to SLC.  Couple of long weekends booked at Sugarbush.  Will day trip Windham.  Was already planning on Dolomites trip in March now on Ikon pass!  Plans to meet some folks from that other forum at Killington late March.


Sounds like fun.  I imagine that you are not the 'average' skier or rider or earn the median U.S. household income considering those plans.  The author's point was the cash and time limitations prevent most from using resorts throughout the network.


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## crank (Nov 4, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Sounds like fun.  I imagine that you are not the 'average' skier or rider or earn the median U.S. household income considering those plans.  The author's point was the cash and time limitations prevent most from using resorts throughout the network.


No, we are obviously ski fanatics who are excited to get the most out of our passes!

I wonder though ow many skiers buy an Ikon or Epic with their primary motivation being to use it as a season's pass at their "home" hill.  For example, skiing Stowe on Epic is like half what a Stowe season pass used to cost.


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## cdskier (Nov 4, 2021)

crank said:


> No, we are obviously ski fanatics who are excited to get the most out of our passes!
> 
> I wonder though ow many skiers buy an Ikon or Epic with their primary motivation being to use it as a season's pass at their "home" hill.  For example, skiing Stowe on Epic is like half what a Stowe season pass used to cost.


Essentially that's what I do with Ikon. Sugarbush is my home hill. Last year I did also use my Ikon 1 day at K. Otherwise it was forty-something days at SB on my Ikon pass for me last year.


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## boston_e (Nov 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Golf is an interesting comparison. With golf, there's a huge range of prices (just like with skiing). There are absolutely some courses that cost a lot of money to play. Then there are others that are very cheap. For example where I live in NJ, you can play at the county courses for $35 on the weekend as a county resident (plus a $40 registration fee that is valid for the season). You can also skip the registration fee if you plan to play only once, but then your daily weekend rate goes up to $60/day. So if you plan to play at least 2 days, it makes sense to register and pay the $40.
> 
> The point though is that there again are options depending on what you want to pay. If you want to play at a fancy course (or ski a big name resort), you'll pay high daily rates. You can't expect to be able to play any course you want for a low daily rate, but options at low price points DO exist.


Are season passes available at the county courses near you?  And if so, I am curious what do they cost?

The few that I looked at near me, the number of days you would have to play to make the pass a better option was very different from skiing season passes.  In my example above you would have to play appx 25 days or so to "justify" a season pass vs an Ikon or Epic pass you are probably "justifying" in 8 to 10 days.


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## Zand (Nov 4, 2021)

I never took a trip west until the Max Pass came out. When Ikon came out it became two trips per year. While I'm sure I would've gone to Colorado or Utah by now had the passes not existed, there's no way I would've made my way to Jackson (and in this upcoming year's case, Big Sky). 

The first year i bought Max, my plan was to get a Killington pass but decided to go the Max route and it totally changed the way I ski.


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## cdskier (Nov 4, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Are season passes available at the county courses near you?  And if so, I am curious what do they cost?
> 
> The few that I looked at near me, the number of days you would have to play to make the pass a better option was very different from skiing season passes.  In my example above you would have to play appx 25 days or so to "justify" a season pass vs an Ikon or Epic pass you are probably "justifying" in 8 to 10 days.



I don't believe so. They only use a daily rate model in our county for the county-owned public courses.


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## drjeff (Nov 4, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Are season passes available at the county courses near you?  And if so, I am curious what do they cost?
> 
> The few that I looked at near me, the number of days you would have to play to make the pass a better option was very different from skiing season passes.  In my example above you would have to play appx 25 days or so to "justify" a season pass vs an Ikon or Epic pass you are probably "justifying" in 8 to 10 days.



With respect to the golf thing, one of the benefits that either private club membership or even a membership at a semi private facility (you can be a member for the season but the general public can play there as well) is access to more tee times (unlike skiing where a resort can handle thousands of people on any given day, with a golf course you're looking at maybe 24-30 people per hour off the 1st tee) so that added access that you're buying is a big selling point.

For example, at the private club I belong to, I can just show up whenever I want, with no tee time, and the reality is that withing 15-20 minutes at most, I am out on the course playing.  The semi private course not to far from my club, has it that their members can call and book tee times 10 days in advance, whereas the general public can only book tee times 5 days in advance, and just showing up to play without a tee time at courses like that, especially if it's say a busy weekend morning, could end up with a 1 to 2 hour wait to before you can get out on the course, so sometimes that added availability to access that a golf membership gets you, while not part of the actual per round cost, certainly adds value


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I don't buy this last argument. How many people in the past just randomly on their own decided to try skiing? Probably very few. Even when day tickets were $30-40, by the time you add rentals and lessons you were still easily over $100 which was a lot of money for many people say even just 10-20 years ago. Most people are introduced to the sport by someone else (family, friends, etc). So those family/friends should be the ones telling them how/where to get the best deals to try it out.


I did it all on my own started winter of 1980-81 when I was 15. Talked my non skiing mom into taking me and my sisters for 2-3 lessons at Spring Mtn - a bump 30 min from home - and later that season she took me to Blue and I got some used rental gear there - no ski brakes you put your boots through cables to keep skis from running away. Then next season I had my license and started driving to Blue Mtn and other Pocono places a few times a year, often for cheap night skiing. Funded it all by working minimum wage jobs.


----------



## cdskier (Nov 4, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> I did it all on my own started winter of 1980-81 when I was 15. Talked my non skiing mom into taking me and my sisters for 2-3 lessons at Spring Mtn - a bump 30 min from home - and later that season she took me to Blue and I got some used rental gear there - no ski brakes you put your boots through cables to keep skis from running away. Then next season I had my license and started driving to Blue Mtn and other Pocono places a few times a year, often for cheap night skiing. Funded it all by working minimum wage jobs.



Yes...but the key here is that you didn't start by going to a big mountain. You started at a local feeder hill. And Spring Mountain (assuming I found the right one) is still a great example of the type of place where someone that has never skied before but wants to try it out should go instead of paying ridiculous prices at a big resort.

Even for adults on the weekend a Learn to ski package is only $80. That includes everything a first time skier/boarder needs.


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Yes...but the key here is that you didn't start by going to a big mountain. You started at a local feeder hill. And Spring Mountain (assuming I found the right one) is still a great example of the type of place where someone that has never skied before but wants to try it out should go instead of paying ridiculous prices at a big resort.
> 
> Even for adults on the weekend a Learn to ski package is only $80. That includes everything a first time skier/boarder needs.
> 
> View attachment 52134


Yep. Started my twins at Spring too. They had a great Sunday night deal that include lift, lesson and rental for like $30 per kid starting at 4pm.  We did that 6x their first season.
Then on to Shawnee for 2 years taking advantage of their "kids under 42" ski free with paying adult"  
Followed by PA skipass for 4th and 5th graders. 
Then $99 6th grader pass at Blue. 
Epic Local grades 7 & 8
Now Epic for me and Indy for all of us.


----------



## Mum skier (Nov 4, 2021)

crank said:


> No, we are obviously ski fanatics who are excited to get the most out of our passes!
> 
> I wonder though ow many skiers buy an Ikon or Epic with their primary motivation being to use it as a season's pass at their "home" hill.  For example, skiing Stowe on Epic is like half what a Stowe season pass used to cost.


Thats pretty much how it worked for us. First year we bought Epic they were just negotiating with the Sunapee/Okemo owners and we were told I think 5 days would be available, which was enough to convince us.   But a couple months later it became unlimited once the sale went through and without meaning to we had a cheap season pass to the mountain we went to the most, with the benefit of long weekend trips elsewhere in the east and western resorts included for the once a year big trip.  
I feel bad for the wildcat and Attitash skiers, the weekend we did there last year showed the neglect they were getting. But overall for a family of 4 it has completely changed the cost commitment.


----------



## Cobbold (Nov 4, 2021)

Zand said:


> I never took a trip west until the Max Pass came out. When Ikon came out it became two trips per year. While I'm sure I would've gone to Colorado or Utah by now had the passes not existed, there's no way I would've made my way to Jackson (and in this upcoming year's case, Big Sky).
> 
> The first year i bought Max, my plan was to get a Killington pass but decided to go the Max route and it totally changed the way I ski.


When I became aware of the max pass, I thought wow this can’t be real, I must be reading this wrong or their is something in the fine print, was afraid to pull the trigger, but yeah super passes changed how I ski.


----------



## jimk (Nov 4, 2021)

I have a nice little 9 hole public golf course that is a par 35.  I play it once a week with some buddies and we walk with our own pull carts for the senior rate of ~$13 per round.  Love it.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2021)

crank said:


> No, we are obviously ski fanatics who are excited to get the most out of our passes!



Yeah as I said, those are awesome plans.  I must confess I am jealous!


crank said:


> I wonder though ow many skiers buy an Ikon or Epic with their primary motivation being to use it as a season's pass at their "home" hill.  For example, skiing Stowe on Epic is like half what a Stowe season pass used to cost.


That is a good question.  Anecdotally here in SLC I can tell you that folks don't see their IKON pass as a Solitude Season pass with a few days at other areas.  They see it is as a pass that is good to multiple local areas.


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## boston_e (Nov 5, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> When I became aware of the max pass, I thought wow this can’t be real, I must be reading this wrong or their is something in the fine print, was afraid to pull the trigger, but yeah super passes changed how I ski.


Do you find you ski more because of the super passes?  Or did something else change?


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## Smellytele (Nov 5, 2021)

I notice I ski more days with a mega pass but a lot of days ski less runs per day


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 5, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Tonys? My buddy rides there sometimes.


NY safety Track


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 5, 2021)

Super passes totaly changed everything. We ski way more and for way less. Kind of sounds like a good deal to me.


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## boston_e (Nov 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I notice I ski more days with a mega pass but a lot of days ski less runs per day


Sure but is that different from a single mountain season pass?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 5, 2021)

I never found a single mountain pass appealing as I prefer variety.

I only ever did it one year, because the closest decent mountain to me offered a $99 deal for 6th graders, so my twins and I got 3 season passes for a total of $600.

And I still skied a lot less than with Epic, as skiing the same place over and over was less interesting. Never did it more than one day per weekend. Last year I got 41 days in on Epic Local. 





boston_e said:


> Sure but is that different from a single mountain season pass?


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 5, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Sure but is that different from a single mountain season pass?


For the most part I guess not but as S2L L2S said I also like variety and get more days in when I can go to multiple places at a decent rate. I used to go to multiple places when I didn't have a multiple mountain pass but not as often.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2021)

i went from being a 35 days a year kind of skier to a 50+ days a year kind of skier when max came along. almost entirely related to cost savings. this also coincided with hitting my 30s and starting to make decent-ish money


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## fbrissette (Nov 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I notice I ski more days with a mega pass but a lot of days ski less runs per day


Same here .  I only do big days when the conditions are really good.  I will go out even in shitty conditions, but not for long.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2021)

i'm kind of the opposite. when the cost to ski per day plummeted, and also when we had that really dismal snow season a few years back, my mentality shifted to just enjoying skiing no matter what, even if conditions arent ideal. wet rain is basically the only thing that will stop me. -15 degrees, all good. white ribbon of death, that's fine. one open slushy mogul run available in late April, I'm game. i obviously still love great conditions and seek out powder skiing, but i went from being a bit of a conditions nazi to being able to really just appreciate any skiing i get. when the cost is nothing i just want to ski more.

just booked a hotel in rutland for nov 19 so i can be at sugarbush opening day. the motels look more expensive this year, as are most other things. may need to revert to more of my midnight lunatic drives this season if the rodeway inn is >100$


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2021)

ski club isnt for me. i want my own private room with my own private bathroom across the street from a Mcdonalds and a dennys. I'm not up there to make friends. to each their own, just not my scene.


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## Bosco DaSkia (Nov 5, 2021)

You do get your own room. I’m not sure where are you get the idea that you don’t.

Making friends is not a requirement either.

You’re under no obligation to interact with anybody at all at any time.

The majority of the times that I stay there I am the only one in the lodge. The very few times that there are other people, you barely even notice them. You might see them coming and going, and if you spend some time in the kitchen cooking you might see them there. But you also might not. I’ve never had any more interaction at the lodge than I would’ve had at a typical hotel.

To each his own, and it really doesn’t make any difference to me if you use this place or not. But you might wanna try it before you knock it.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 5, 2021)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If you’re paying more than $28 a night for lodging in Vermont, you’re paying too damn much….
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Appreciate the excellent tip. Unfortunately not real convenient to anywhere I am likely to ski this year with my Epic and Indy passes, but good to know about


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2021)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> You do get your own room. I’m not sure where are you get the idea that you don’t.
> 
> Making friends is not a requirement either.
> 
> ...



the site for that club says most rooms are dorm style, with a couple of privates. i appreciate the suggestion, just not what i'm looking for.


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## urungus (Nov 5, 2021)

$56 for a private room (for $28 you have to shack up with a stranger), plus you have to be a member of the club ($32), plus you are required to do chores


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## fbrissette (Nov 5, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Appreciate the excellent tip. Unfortunately not real convenient to anywhere I am likely to ski this year with my Epic and Indy passes, but good to know about


You can aways get it down to 25$ if you pack enough people in one room...


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2021)

despite my continuing resistance, i appreciate your insights and info, and if inflation keeps inflating may go that route. for the foreseeable future its the bright city lights of rutland for me most weekends.


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## Cobbold (Nov 5, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Do you find you ski more because of the super passes?  Or did something else change?


Don’t know what happened to me, but went back and forth between ikon or epic, pulled the trigger on epic, then became a 58 year old groupie, started reading  every article about Katz, Brian Fairbanks, rusty gregory, asc guy, snowmaking, grooming, lifts, got diamonds books, found this and other skier forums. Up till then could not care who owned or ran what ski area just showed up skied then went home.   The Whole industry fascinates me, all the different business models being used, different personalities, etc.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 5, 2021)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> You’re right. I should’ve said $28 per person per night. That said, you aren’t required to have two people to get a room.
> 
> And “chores“ are not required. Just clean up after yourself. If you don’t make a mess you won’t have anything to do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, might see you up there. Going to save some money not having to get a hotel for my Stowe/Jay days.


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## PAabe (Nov 6, 2021)

You can still night ski fairly inexpensively around here.  Going to Vermont to try and ski for the first time is definitely not a good financial move.
At many of the places a beginner can get a ticket+rental+maybe even a bundled group lesson sub-$80ish, and there are $20-$55ish night tickets available at most places.
However, Vail and KSL are increasing day ticket prices significantly at their PA hills.  Vail draws enough of a crowd from their pass from MD/DC/NY and KSL makes bank on New Yorkers' poconos vacations at Camelback (coming soon to Blue yay) so that they don't have to offer cheap day/night tickets to draw a crowd.

There is an executive golf course near me currently $10 for 9 holes pitch and putt.  This is the only place I have golfed at around here because I am not very good.
Point being I guess, the nicest or otherwise most in-demand places (epic & ikon areas in vermont) will charge a lot more but if you are a beginner or don't care about going to the "nicest" places all the time you can save some significant $$$

If I go to vermont and don't have a buddy to split the cost I'll be sleeping in my car because motels are looking too expensive right now


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## ss20 (Nov 6, 2021)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> You’re right. I should’ve said $28 per person per night. That said, you aren’t required to have two people to get a room.
> 
> And “chores“ are not required. Just clean up after yourself. If you don’t make a mess you won’t have anything to do.
> 
> ...



Stop...stop!  I miss my ski club already.  That house has a nice floor plan.  Loved nights at my ski club house.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2021)

PAabe said:


> You can still night ski fairly inexpensively around here.  Going to Vermont to try and ski for the first time is definitely not a good financial move.
> At many of the places a beginner can get a ticket+rental+maybe even a bundled group lesson sub-$80ish, and there are $20-$55ish night tickets available at most places.
> However, Vail and KSL are increasing day ticket prices significantly at their PA hills.  Vail draws enough of a crowd from their pass from MD/DC/NY and KSL makes bank on New Yorkers' poconos vacations at Camelback (coming soon to Blue yay) so that they don't have to offer cheap day/night tickets to draw a crowd.
> 
> ...


Is Vail keeping night skiing at these places?  They got rid of it at PCMR.


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## FBGM (Nov 6, 2021)

Did I see Killy day tickets this weekend for 1 trail we’re $79?!?!? Fuck…


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## urungus (Nov 6, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Did I see Killy day tickets this weekend for 1 trail we’re $79?!?!? Fuck…


Hey they have TWO trails open, LOL.  Tix for tomorrow are $73


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## FBGM (Nov 6, 2021)

urungus said:


> Hey they have TWO trails open, LOL.  Tix for tomorrow are $73
> 
> View attachment 52154


That’s wild. I’m sure people are paying it. I know buy a pass, what sucker gets ticket window. But still, holy shit. 

I always compared skiing to golf. Both are the sports I do. And are both expensive. I’ve always been content to spend $80 on a good round of golf. And for the most part, you can find higher end public courses for that price. Sure your odd balls like Pebble or BethPage are more. But say $225 for a day at Vail. It’s “Vail”. That’s the Pebble Beach (you know what I mean - Think like a Texan here) 

So do we except $200-$400 to ski a high end resort? For window tickets - the 1 round. 

But I’d you ski say 30 runs a day. And a ticket is $300. That’s $10 a run. That makes it seem better? 

Im a few in and just trying to find a spin on this.


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## PAabe (Nov 6, 2021)

From what I understand Vail has kept night skiing going at the PA places but only certain days of the week, not as late, and it's not really a great deal anymore.  IIRC like $80 for a night ticket at roundtop - I'm not paying $80 to ski down the ice in the dark at roundtop when I can go to almost anywhere else for half the cost or less.  Sucks for the Maryland gang though, Vail has that market cornered


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2021)

PAabe said:


> From what I understand Vail has kept night skiing going at the PA places but only certain days of the week, not as late, and it's not really a great deal anymore.  IIRC like $80 for a night ticket at roundtop - I'm not paying $80 to ski down the ice in the dark at roundtop when I can go to almost anywhere else for half the cost or less.  Sucks for the Maryland gang though, Vail has that market cornered


That sucks.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2021)

urungus said:


> Hey they have TWO trails open, LOL.  Tix for tomorrow are $73
> 
> View attachment 52154


FastPass not included


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 7, 2021)

I expect that at $73-$79 a head this weekend, Friday a give away to juat pass holders, and attendance sure to drop dramatically on weekdays (along with ticket prices) K will wind up losing money on the snowmaking and staffing investment they made to get open their first week. 

But they get bragging rights and the longest season in the east streak no doubt boosts their pass sales.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Nov 7, 2021)

PAabe said:


> From what I understand Vail has kept night skiing going at the PA places but only certain days of the week, not as late, and it's not really a great deal anymore.  IIRC like $80 for a night ticket at roundtop - I'm not paying $80 to ski down the ice in the dark at roundtop when I can go to almost anywhere else for half the cost or less.  Sucks for the Maryland gang though, Vail has that market





thetrailboss said:


> That sucks.



It sure does  no affordable adult option for night skiing and the school programs have been neutered as well. 

Lots of people were pissed as they were forced out of the sport.  Seems odd, even for me, but there were lots of people who enjoyed skiing at Roundtop at night after work and had no interest in skiing anywhere else.

Doesn't affect me so much, but it was the way that I eventually graduated to a full pass and became a much better skier 

Vail does suck  the only thing I can do is ski as much as possible and spend $0 dollars on the their resorts


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 7, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> It sure does  no affordable adult option for night skiing and the school programs have been neutered as well.
> 
> Lots of people were pissed as they were forced out of the sport.  Seems odd, even for me, but there were lots of people who enjoyed skiing at Roundtop at night after work and had no interest in skiing anywhere else.
> 
> ...


If someone wants to night ski with any regularity (even only 2 times a month) the $499 NE Value Pass is a pretty reasonable deal, particularly with all the other skiing options it provides - and for seniors, youth, and students prices range from $345-$399


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 7, 2021)

I get it, but just 3 seasons ago you could ski nights from 1/1 to close in March starting at $199.  Was the local private ownership way under pricing it? Or was it a similar strategy to the mega pass?  They used to make a lot of money  on those night passes.  

I also don't fault Vail for closing Monday and Tuesday nights.  Place was a ghost town those nights unless it snowed


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## ss20 (Nov 7, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> I expect that at $73-$79 a head this weekend, Friday a give away to juat pass holders, and attendance sure to drop dramatically on weekdays (along with ticket prices) K will wind up losing money on the snowmaking and staffing investment they made to get open their first week.
> 
> But they get bragging rights and the longest season in the east streak no doubt boosts their pass sales.




I doubt they lose money.  If they did they wouldn't have invested in the stairs 10 years ago.  

Also for Killington they have sooooo much ground to cover with their snowmaking.  All this snow they're making up in North Ridge is freeing up resources they can use to blast other trails before Christmas.  It could stay below freezing the entire time between now and Christmas and they wouldn't be able to make snow on all the terrain.  Just getting a decent base on a few trails now is a good thing.


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 7, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I doubt they lose money.  If they did they wouldn't have invested in the stairs 10 years ago.
> 
> Also for Killington they have sooooo much ground to cover with their snowmaking.  All this snow they're making up in North Ridge is freeing up resources they can use to blast other trails before Christmas.  It could stay below freezing the entire time between now and Christmas and they wouldn't be able to make snow on all the terrain.  Just getting a decent base on a few trails now is a good thing.


I think it makes good economic sense to spend more than they take in on day ticket sales to be the first to open and last to close by a good margin, because it builds their brand and drives pass sales in an era when so many pass purchasers are gravitating to Epic and Ikon.

And while the investment in early snow making might make sense some years, it quite likely does not this year with the warm weather on the horizon and likely rain next weekend.

Probably if they were only looking at the short term economic return it would have made more sense to start snow making when it gets cold again around Nov 15 and target a Nov 19 opening. But then they would have lost what differentiates their brand (kind of like what Vail did to Wildcat and Big Boulder, both k own for long seasons within their regions - as public corporations tend to focus on quarterly results over long term strategy).


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 7, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> I think it makes good economic sense to spend more than they take in on day ticket sales to be the first to open and last to close by a good margin, because it builds their brand and drives pass sales in an era when so many pass purchasers are gravitating to Epic and Ikon.
> 
> And while the investment in early snow making might make sense some years, it quite likely does not this year with the warm weather on the horizon and likely rain next weekend.
> 
> Probably if they were only looking at the short term economic return it would have made more sense to start snow making when it gets cold again around Nov 15 and target a Nov 19 opening. But then they would have lost what differentiates their brand (kind of like what Vail did to Wildcat and Big Boulder, both k own for long seasons within their regions - as public corporations tend to focus on quarterly results over long term strategy).


Umm didn't wildcat open earlier and stay open later under pass regimes?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 7, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Umm didn't wildcat open earlier and stay open later under pass regimes?


Pretty sure that is not the case since it has been Epic (public corporation). I believe Peak was privately held. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I am not an expert in Wildcat history.


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## machski (Nov 7, 2021)

urungus said:


> Hey they have TWO trails open, LOL.  Tix for tomorrow are $73
> 
> View attachment 52154


Pretty much where K has been early season for the last 3 or 4 years.


----------



## Cobbold (Nov 9, 2021)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If you’re paying more than $28 a night for lodging in Vermont, you’re paying too damn much….
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never really knew much about ski clubs, but after doing some research, they are a hell of deal especially if you use them mid week, in my opinion for what ever that’s worth.


----------



## Kingslug20 (Nov 9, 2021)

We belonged to 2 of them for a very short while...they are not hotels and require a bit of an investment..usually in doing chores, cooking etc. If that's cool with you ..and sleeping in bunk beds then it can be a great way to meet people and have a more social thing. Best way to do it is to try them out and see if your a good fit.


----------



## Cobbold (Nov 9, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> We belonged to 2 of them for a very short while...they are not hotels and require a bit of an investment..usually in doing chores, cooking etc. If that's cool with you ..and sleeping in bunk beds then it can be a great way to meet people and have a more social thing. Best way to do it is to try them out and see if your a good fit.


They definitely are not plush, but I am looking for a midweek place to crash, would not be their for the weekend, will try one this winter to see if it works, if not oh well.


----------



## eatskisleep (Nov 9, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Pretty sure that is not the case since it has been Epic (public corporation). I believe Peak was privately held. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I am not an expert in Wildcat history.


Peak was publicly traded under the ticker SKIS. Before that was when Wildcat was really “good” I miss those days. But I also miss Peak running wildcat versus Vail. Vail has sucked the soul out of skiing, especially at mountains like the Cat.

Last season Wildcat didn’t open until December 11th and closed for the season on April 11th. Even Cranmore opened before the Cat. I don’t really like Attitash but wow, April 4th closing last season!


----------



## boston_e (Nov 9, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> They definitely are not plush, but I am looking for a midweek place to crash, would not be their for the weekend, will try one this winter to see if it works, if not oh well.


Mid week might not be too bad.  I’ve never done a ski club but I have been in share houses in the past.  I’m definitely at a point in life where multiple beds to a room and some dude I’ve never met before snoring snd cutting farts in the bunk below me would not work for me anymore.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 9, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


I think I paid full price to ski Whiteface in 2020 when they got 3’ of powder.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 9, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> If someone wants to night ski with any regularity (even only 2 times a month) the $499 NE Value Pass is a pretty reasonable deal, particularly with all the other skiing options it provides - and for seniors, youth, and students prices range from $345-$399


Even better is the Catamount and Berkshire East night skiing pass for $169. You can ski Wednesday Thursday Friday and Saturday after 4 PM.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 9, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> They definitely are not plush, but I am looking for a midweek place to crash, would not be their for the weekend, will try one this winter to see if it works, if not oh well.


SWC lodge is a pretty cool place, especially if you get a private room and go when it’s empty. We pretty much had the place to ourselves one Christmas when we spent 5 days at Stowe. The room with the fireplace and bar is fantastic, and the kitchen is clean and functional.


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## Cobbold (Nov 9, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> SWC lodge is a pretty cool place, especially if you get a private room and go when it’s empty. We pretty much had the place to ourselves one Christmas when we spent 5 days at Stowe. The room with the fireplace and bar is fantastic, and the kitchen is clean and functional.


Looking forward to going to swc midweek for my  one day a week Stowe visit, are you still a member?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 9, 2021)

Got a link for this SWC lodge people are discussing by Stowe?


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## Cobbold (Nov 9, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Got a link for this SWC lodge people are discussing by Stowe?


Google Schenectady ski club


----------



## NYSnowflake (Nov 9, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Got a link for this SWC lodge people are discussing by Stowe?











						Schenectady Wintersports Club | Ski and Outdoors Club | New York and New England
					

Ski, snowboard, hike, paddle, and bike the Northeast with the Schenectady Wintersports Club!  Join for just $25/yr.  Stay at the lodge in Waterbury Center, VT.




					www.swcweb.org


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 9, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Looking forward to going to swc midweek for my  one day a week Stowe visit, are you still a member?


My membership expired when I didn’t renew my Epic pass. We switched to Ikon because we are staying with friends at Sugarbush this season. I would go back though for sure if I needed a place to stay in that area.


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## Cobbold (Nov 9, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> My membership expired when I didn’t renew my Epic pass. We switched to Ikon because we are staying with friends at Sugarbush this season. I would go back though for sure if I needed a place to stay in that area.


What did you like best about the lodge and what did you not like about the lodge?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 9, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> Schenectady Wintersports Club | Ski and Outdoors Club | New York and New England
> 
> 
> Ski, snowboard, hike, paddle, and bike the Northeast with the Schenectady Wintersports Club!  Join for just $25/yr.  Stay at the lodge in Waterbury Center, VT.
> ...


Thanks that looks great. Will likely join when ready to book first Stowe trip of season


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 9, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I’m about done with this sport.



It relegates people like me with small children to a handful of ski resorts.  But even those ski resorts have increased their prices knowing they can do so as a beneficial artifact of the surrounding ski resorts going artificially stratospheric.   Vail cant fail soon enough.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 9, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> *It will be interesting to see what impact, if any, this has on the number of people entering the sport.*



Terrible.  I'm sure you've seen me write about this before, but this has been my prediction from day one, that it will seriously impede new skier/snowboarders entrants, *BUT* (and this is key) because of the lumpiness of the data & the difficulty in discerning YoY trends given numerous variables simultaneously at play, it will take years before anyone figures this out.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 10, 2021)

cdskier said:


> *I don't buy this last argument. How many people in the past just randomly on their own decided to try skiing? Probably very few. *Even when day tickets were $30-40, by the time you add rentals and lessons you were still easily over $100 which was a lot of money for many people say even just 10-20 years ago. Most people are introduced to the sport by someone else (family, friends, etc). So those family/friends should be the ones telling them how/where to get the best deals to try it out.



As someone who spent years working the beginner area skier counter at a major ski resort, I can assure you you're quite wrong on this belief.  Tons of people "show up" to ski for the first time, like uber tons, every weekend, and often it's a last minute thing & they're completely unprepared in numerous ways.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 10, 2021)

crank said:


> *When I started skiing, 59-years ago*, yikes!  Old I am.  Nobody in my family skied nor did anyone I knew.  As I became a teenager and started finding skiing buddies it was split about 50/50 between those who had skiing families and guys like me who just tried it and stuck with it.



Would I be right to assume that 60 years ago it was mostly very well-off people who skied?  Today we say that skiing is for well-off people, but it's not really true if you're motivated.  But back then my perception (which may be 100% wrong) is it was the well-off.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 10, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> * The author's other point was that the market demanded this cheap multimountain product. *



Hmmmmm....... I'm not really seeing that.  

The market had it stuffed down their throat & forced to like it, like a foie gras duck "choosing" whether to eat or not.


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## ss20 (Nov 10, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Hmmmmm....... I'm not really seeing that.
> 
> The market had it stuffed down their throat & forced to like it, like a foie gras duck "choosing" whether to eat or not.




What's the market?  Us on AZ who would gladly shovel out "old" prices of a $1,200 season pass for less crowds at one mountain?  Or is it the casual skier who skis 5-10 times a year and sees a $600 pass to 194,193 mountains a bargain...crowding and atmosphere be damned.

For every AZ skier, there's 10 Average Joe's.  AZ is not a collective sampling of the "market".  If people disliked multi-mountain passes for cheap, things would've corrected themselves long ago...this is no longer a new phenomenon or a "phase"... it's what we have for a while.

I think the only major changes you'll see are a return of upscale/expensive independent resorts to fill the shoes of Deer Valley, Beaver Creek, Aspen, Jackson, etc that have been Ikonized.  I think Powdr would have a good shot at doing this.  Killington, Copper, and Snowbird are all big draws in their respective regions...and in places where people are sick of crowds.  Take them off Ikon and charge $1,000 a pop for a season pass (single mountain).  Now you're suddenly a "unique experience" in that you're exclusive.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 10, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> What did you like best about the lodge and what did you not like about the lodge?


Things we liked about the Schenectady winter sports club lodge-

Character and history of the lodge
Great location near Stowe
Easy booking rooms
Free breakfast
Friendly people/made new friends
Clean updated bathrooms
Clean kitchen
Single bedrooms
Great prices
Easy to join club

Didn’t like-
Questionable air quality irritated my eyes and lungs (allergic to wood smoke maybe? I do have a mold allergy)

Dogs not allowed even when you rent out the whole place yourself

Club membership is aging and in need of younger active members


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## raisingarizona (Nov 10, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Terrible.  I'm sure you've seen me write about this before, but this has been my prediction from day one, that it will seriously impede new skier/snowboarders entrants, *BUT* (and this is key) because of the lumpiness of the data & the difficulty in discerning YoY trends given numerous variables simultaneously at play, it will take years before anyone figures this out.


Maybe they are looking at the climate science and have decided to get everything they can while we still have regular winters. 

They gotta be looking at the predictions and making plans based around them. You’d be foolish to not be.


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> Things we liked about the Schenectady winter sports club lodge-
> 
> Character and history of the lodge
> Great location near Stowe
> ...


Thanks for the list


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## mister moose (Nov 10, 2021)

If you go to a place with the word "resort" in their name for your first ski experience, you're already signing up for high prices.  You need to drive there.  You need to spend a night since the drive is so far.  You need to pay resort prices for lunch and rentals and lessons.  (Yes there are packages)

Every year we see busloads of people that buy a lift ticket and rent equipment, and would have spent less if they only went to Snowshed and asked for the beginner package.  We see them because they are out floundering on the 6 pack or Ramshead.  Or even the top of Skyeship because they parked there.

For any dollar strapped parent that is used to doing just a little bit of vacation planning, there are small day trip local hills.  Want to learn to ski cheap  go to Otis Ridge.  Mount Southington.  For the VT 5 day trip there's off the glitz areas like Bolton, Bromley, Pico.   How expensive would 5 days be at Pico, buying your tickets well in advance for like $50, staying in Rutland and brown bagging it?   And you get low crowds, a family vibe, and freakin 2,000 feet of vertical.  Trust me, after Otis Ridge, Pico blows your hair back.

Day one for us was walking up a 15ft of vertical drainage ditch and skiing straight down.  We loved it.  We did the brown bag thing, we did the rent a farmhouse 45 minutes away from the hill thing.  So I have very little empathy for those who complain about high resort prices.  They've ALWAYS been high.  Sure they might be a little higher now than historic comparisons, but the basics are still mostly the same in that if you want to save money, you don't walk up at a big resort.

*Edit
Just thought of Ascutney.  After a decent snow, drive up with the family and ski the T-bar for $20 for adults, $10 kids, under 6 is free.  FREE.  What better place to learn to ski on a budget than that.


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## mister moose (Nov 10, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Would I be right to assume that 60 years ago it was mostly very well-off people who skied?  Today we say that skiing is for well-off people, but it's not really true if you're motivated.  But back then my perception (which may be 100% wrong) is it was the well-off.


You'd only be right if you were at at expensive resorts.  60 years ago there was Roundtop, Hogback, Maple Valley, Mt Tom, Brodie, and dozens of others that offered less expensive skiing and are gone now.  But back then Sugarbush had the nickname "Mascara Mountain" for a reason.

When I was teaching my wife-to-be to ski at Bousquet's in the 90s, lift tickets were $12 and increased to maybe $15, and after ski beers (Genessee Cream Ale) were $2.  No brainer.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 10, 2021)

All good and well, but the reality is there are a fraction of feeder hills as there once was and fewer mid sized options too that bridge the gap from feeder hills to "resort".  

We skied a ton at places like King Ridge and Temple as Boston suburbanites growing up in the 80s.  Distant memories now. 

The NESAP list is long!

The population is 100M higher today than 1985.  The participation rate in the sport is flat since I believe about 1980. 

So, in a way the sport continues to contract.  

Just seems that there could be a better formula as an industry to grow.


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## mister moose (Nov 10, 2021)

Gotta ask yourself why that is.  Partly is increased cost of things like insurance, labor, and electricity.  I think much more so it is that the majority of people would rather have the grooming, snowmaking, modern lifts and amenities that are found at bigger resorts.  Not enough support for small areas.  The market got what it asked for.  Thankfully a few small areas survived and continue to offer a more economical entry point.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 10, 2021)

We shall see.  The next decade or so as the boomers rapidly age out of the sport will be telling.  I'm thinking the industry will wish it had a better farm system plus kept better options for the infrequent skiers.  If you don't keep those folks engaged in their 20s and 30s, chances are you lose them for good.


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## mister moose (Nov 10, 2021)

Don't forget what has improved:

Equipment changes have made it truly easier to learn.

Clothing improvements keep the cold out better.  Goretex, fleece, microfiber down.

The 20 something price tier.

The internet has honed pricing deals and price comparisons,  and has improved snow reporting.  

Roads are generally better, more salt is used, and AWD is readily available in small cars.

Are any outdoor sports growing?  Golf?  Skating/hockey?  Surfing?  Canoeing?  Sailing?  Fishing?  Hunting?  Rock Climbing?  Scuba diving?


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## VTKilarney (Nov 10, 2021)

mister moose said:


> Are any outdoor sports growing? Golf? Skating/hockey? Surfing? Canoeing? Sailing? Fishing? Hunting? Rock Climbing? Scuba diving?



Biking seems to have grown, especially mountain biking.  Judging by Franconia Notch and Crawford Notch parking, hiking is still very popular.

Another issue is that you have a generation of kids that are growing up on video games.  They just don't value outdoor leisure activities, especially in the colder months.


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## PAabe (Nov 10, 2021)

It is getting harder to get people to do things outside, or otherwise, things that aren't comfortable,  void of risk, and easy.  Boy Scouts are having big problems with membership.  You can get people to go on a leisurely walk in the woods, or float downstream in a kayak, but there is a big gap between that and and even biking for example- you rarely see people casually biking, almost everybody is decked out in pro gear.  I know many people that cannot ride a bike.

It is hard to get people to do an activity like skiing that is not comfortable, easy, or entirely "safe." It also seems like it is less cool than it once was.

Also, better ski equipment makes feeder hills less challenging, and rising insurance and liability costs has been the cited final straw for a lot of places.


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## drjeff (Nov 10, 2021)

PAabe said:


> It is getting harder to get people to do things outside, or otherwise, things that aren't comfortable,  void of risk, and easy.  Boy Scouts are having big problems with membership.  You can get people to go on a leisurely walk in the woods, or float downstream in a kayak, but there is a big gap between that and and even biking for example- you rarely see people casually biking, almost everybody is decked out in pro gear.  I know many people that cannot ride a bike.
> 
> It is hard to get people to do an activity like skiing that is not comfortable, easy, or entirely "safe." It also seems like it is less cool than it once was.
> 
> Also, better ski equipment makes feeder hills less challenging, and rising insurance and liability costs has been the cited final straw for a lot of places.



And I think that some of the struggles that the industry is facing (costs for employee housing, drawing in new people to the sport) can be directly tied back to your correct assesment that it is getting more and more difficult to get people to accept the fact that some risk is actually OK (and frankly can be lots of fun) and then when they want to do something like try skiing/riding they have certain minimum standards (or what they feel are their minimu standards) in whta lodging ammenities should be, which ties into the notion among many that anyone and everyone can flip a house into a world class home/condo/rental unit that will have people fighting over who will buy/rent it, and the prices keep going up.   Plus, there's not always an app for actually skiing or riding that will do the actual sport for someone, and that is an issue among some for sure.

All of us passionate skiers and riders get what the draw of the sport is, and it seems like society wants to try and mnimize that excitement and risk among the masses to just something they watch on youtube rather than actually being outisde doing some version of it themselves. And that's too bad


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## deadheadskier (Nov 10, 2021)

mister moose said:


> Don't forget what has improved:
> 
> Equipment changes have made it truly easier to learn.
> 
> ...



I'm well aware of the improvements.  Participation is still flat though.

As population has grown, many of those activities have shown growth or at least tracked with population growth.


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## Hawk (Nov 10, 2021)

The way I see it, things will eventually change like they always do.  When these large corporations realize they can't grow the industry anymore because a a large number of factors, they will cash out.  For me that means that some other entity will own the mountian, passes will probably go up by say $300 to $500 and I will still be here living at the mountain.  The upside is that myself, the locals and the regulars will get the mountain back.  Downside may be that services go down, maintience is defered and snowmaking and grooming suffer.  I don't mine if that is the end game, either way I will be here, own my housing and have all the toys in place.   IF it snows, then there will be much to be happy about.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 10, 2021)

Hawk said:


> The way I see it, things will eventually change like they always do.  When these large corporations realize they can't grow the industry anymore because a a large number of factors, they will cash out.  For me that means that some other entity will own the mountian, passes will probably go up by say $300 to $500 and I will still be here living at the mountain.  The upside is that myself, the locals and the regulars will get the mountain back.  Downside may be that services go down, maintience is defered and snowmaking and grooming suffer.  I don't mine if that is the end game, either way I will be here, own my housing and have all the toys in place.   IF it snows, then there will be much to be happy about.


So you own a condo at a mountain (Sugarbush I believe) that is most likely not going to close. Sounds like a great situation but you are not the demographic that is going to be effected by most of this stuff. It’s the people at the independent resorts or smaller hills that will suffer or the people who want to buy day passes and learn the sport. Which in turn will begin to effect all mountains since no new people are participating. If the small hills are all closed where can you turn when the corporations cash out?


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## Hawk (Nov 10, 2021)

I think it will be the opposite.  People are getting priced out so smaller hills will see an increse in visit.  Personally I do not see a decrease in skiers and riders.  It is stagnating.  There will always be people who want to do the sport.  It just won't grow.  The places that weather the storm will survive.


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

Definitely bipolar conversations that go on here, some days we complain about the ski areas being too busy, dam epic/ikon then we are worried that their is not enough new skiers in the pipelines. like all sports/hobbies it is a matter of what you want to spend your time and money on.  Lots of my neighbors have big boats snowmobiles, campers, big trucks, it’s all on how you decide to spend your disposable income.  All hobbies are expensive in money and time, not sure what to make of  the actual number of skiers in the us vs the population growth, as long as new skiers match old skiers leaving the industry, ski industry should be ok, in my  opinion.   Advances in equipment and technology has improved skiing, making for a better experience especially for new skiers. If the number of skiers stays at 15 million, not sure any one has a handle on how many skiers their are, no matter the population growth, the industry with increases in wages/ wealth should be able to get more money from the same number of skiers, I know their is an argument to make usa real wages have fallen over the decades, but that seems another argument for another day.  I guess what I am trying to say, skiing has always been a niche market, and it’s easier for wealthy people to enjoy than less wealthy people but, people of all wage levels participate if it is their hobby, and they find a way to do it in their budget, that was true in 1960 and is true today.


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## jimk (Nov 10, 2021)

I gotta say it, the mega-passes represent the best of times for this retired boomer with wanderlust and a bit of disposable income.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 10, 2021)

jimk said:


> I gotta say it, the mega-passes represent the best of times for this retired boomer with wanderlust and a bit of disposable income.


And there ya go!


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## boston_e (Nov 10, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I think the only major changes you'll see are a return of upscale/expensive independent resorts to fill the shoes of Deer Valley, Beaver Creek, Aspen, Jackson, etc that have been Ikonized.  I think Powdr would have a good shot at doing this.  Killington, Copper, and Snowbird are all big draws in their respective regions...and in places where people are sick of crowds.  Take them off Ikon and charge $1,000 a pop for a season pass (single mountain).  Now you're suddenly a "unique experience" in that you're exclusive.



Killington already charges $1000 for a season pass (single mountain).  What is their incentive to get off of IKON?


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## Harvey (Nov 10, 2021)

jimk said:


> How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?


I did it last year at McCauley.  I think it was $18 or maybe $25, but I don't remember.  Best day I ever had there was two years ago, it was $13.  Wednesdays are discounted, even if it's powder.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 10, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Killington already charges $1000 for a season pass (single mountain).  What is their incentive to get off of IKON?



and copper (which fucking sucks) is already ikon unlimited. i don't know who would pay $1000 for copper only. again, copper fucking sucks. and that's the terrain, not the crowds. tho the traffic and crowds on the wrong weekend day can be special.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 10, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I think the only major changes you'll see are a return of upscale/expensive independent resorts to fill the shoes of Deer Valley, Beaver Creek, Aspen, Jackson, etc that have been Ikonized.  I think Powdr would have a good shot at doing this.  Killington, Copper, and Snowbird are all big draws in their respective regions...and in places where people are sick of crowds.  Take them off Ikon and charge $1,000 a pop for a season pass (single mountain).  Now you're suddenly a "unique experience" in that you're exclusive.


FWIW Aspen has all but dumped IKON.  Jackson has also restricted IKON passes.  So those two see themselves as in that market.  It will be interesting to see if DV drops or restricts IKON.  That is the only wholly owned Alterra Resort that was considered high market.  

As to POWDR, as said, their passes to a single mountain are already $1,000+ per season and they love IKON.  They are being hogs in wanting both ends of the market.  As much as I support your idea for Snowbird, John Cumming is not going that way as much as I would hope he would see the light.


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

Harvey said:


> I did it last year at McCauley.  I think it was $18 or maybe $25, but I don't remember.  Best day I ever had there was two years ago, it was $13.  Wednesdays are discounted, even if it's powder.


Up until I got on the epic pass, for the most paid window prices, so three years ago, occasionally would get passes from the Warren Miller films, mobile gas use to run a thing after 5 fill ups maybe ten you got a 10 dollar coupon, that’s it, full price baby


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## thetrailboss (Nov 10, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Up until I got on the epic pass, for the most paid window prices, so three years ago, occasionally would get passes from the Warren Miller films, mobile gas use to run a thing after 5 fill ups maybe ten you got a 10 dollar coupon, that’s it, full price baby


How are the WM film promos out there?  This year they are pretty bad here. No free days.  Just BOGO deals.


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## Edd (Nov 10, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and copper (which fucking sucks) is already ikon unlimited. i don't know who would pay $1000 for copper only. again, copper fucking sucks. and that's the terrain, not the crowds. tho the traffic and crowds on the wrong weekend day can be special.


Aw man I like Copper


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## Harvey (Nov 10, 2021)

I think the gear (rocker) is extending the retirement age of skiing. I started at 40 and I think I skied better last year (Age 62) than ever before.


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> How are the WM film promos out there?  This year they are pretty bad here. No free days.  Just BOGO deals.


Don’t know, haven’t been in awhile but towards the end of me going to the film it was getting a little worse each year.


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

Edd said:


> Aw man I like Copper


Haven’t been to copper, drove by it once, but their is a guy Bert Middleton, I think that is how he spells his name, any way he did these you tube videos of most ski areas in Colorado, each one was around five to 10 minutes long, not sure who he is, but he really like copper, thought it was better than all the other places around it, like Breckinridge, abasin, keystone, not sure if he mentioned Loveland, I guess mr Middleton and Kusty would agree to disagree


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 10, 2021)

In that region there’s A-Basin and then everything else. But I’d take everything else over copper. Maybe copper over Vail. They’re both incredibly boring if you’re looking for anything more adventurous than mild intermediate. If I recall correctly @Zand will agree re:copper


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## Zand (Nov 10, 2021)

There's SOME decent stuff at Copper off the very top and down by Super Bee. But the vast majority of it is Okemo west. If you like groomers but not as posh as Vail and Breck it's a great place. I was missing Winter Park a lot when went there.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 10, 2021)

The Vail and Alterra mountains are no longer participating in offering our ski club discounted tickets for day bus trips. The OC Ski Club has been running day busses every Friday and Sunday for over 60 years and has thousands of members, and now the resorts are rejecting their business. Even Bromley doesn't want to play anymore. It’s destroying the club and this unique community of skiers.


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## chuckstah (Nov 10, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> In that region there’s A-Basin and then everything else. But I’d take everything else over copper. Maybe copper over Vail. They’re both incredibly boring if you’re looking for anything more adventurous than mild intermediate. If I recall correctly @Zand will agree re:copper


Loveland?  I really enjoy it there.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 10, 2021)

loveland is actually the only place i havent skied in the i70 + winter park corridor. i may get there this year. epic pass friends live in denver, i am ikon+indy, and we have tentative agreement to meet on neutral ground for a long weekend. tho in reality we prob end up doing a-basin, breck or keystone, and loveland, so we each end up paying 2 days and getting 1 pass day


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## deadheadskier (Nov 10, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> The Vail and Alterra mountains are no longer participating in offering our ski club discounted tickets for day bus trips. The OC Ski Club has been running day busses every Friday and Sunday for over 60 years and has thousands of members, and now the resorts are rejecting their business. Even Bromley doesn't want to play anymore. It’s destroying the club and this unique community of skiers.



That's such a bummer.  Like you said, a unique community of skiers.  I think resorts should be doing everything they can to attract and expand upon these groups.  Pennywise and pound foolish to turn such groups away


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## thetrailboss (Nov 10, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> The Vail and Alterra mountains are no longer participating in offering our ski club discounted tickets for day bus trips. The OC Ski Club has been running day busses every Friday and Sunday for over 60 years and has thousands of members, and now the resorts are rejecting their business. Even Bromley doesn't want to play anymore. It’s destroying the club and this unique community of skiers.


Very sad but not at all surprising.  Their strategy is only the four-letter pass at the expense of everything else in terms of discounts and deals.  The hidden costs of a discounted multi-mountain pass.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 10, 2021)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> There’s still a few hold outs left. Killington/Pico, Sugarbush, and Stratton I still have love for the ski clubs…. With Killington/Pico being by far the most generous with the number of days available.
> 
> http://www.njssc.org/wp-content/uploads/Killington-Pico-2021-2022-Ski-Council-Appreciation-Days.pdf
> 
> ...


In previous years the mountains sold tickets to our club for between $33 and $45 per day. The prices now are double, triple, or more than they were in 2019. OC ski club didn’t run off awareness days, they negotiated their own schedule and pricing  with the mountains. That has all changed and the club is struggling to adapt. We have started renting out Plattekill for whole days and that has been successful. Thankfully multiday ski vacations are still available at good rates.


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> In previous years the mountains sold tickets to our club for between $33 and $45 per day. The prices now are double, triple, or more than they were in 2019. OC ski club didn’t run off awareness days, they negotiated their own schedule and pricing  with the mountains. That has all changed and the club is struggling to adapt. We have started renting out Plattekill for whole days and that has been successful. Thankfully multiday ski vacations are still available at good rates.


A week ago I was vaguely aware of ski clubs, now a member, just thinking maybe ski clubs needs to adjust their business models or change how they acquire new members, for clubs that have a lodge I think it will be easier than just a club that rents buses for day trips, but what do I know.  Has your club considered renting pico? I hear that can rented midweek.  Has your club rented plattekill for this upcoming year? And if so what is the date?


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 10, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> A week ago I was vaguely aware of ski clubs, now a member, just thinking maybe ski clubs needs to adjust their business models or change how they acquire new members, for clubs that have a lodge I think it will be easier than just a club that rents buses for day trips, but what do I know.  Has your club considered renting pico? I hear that can rented midweek.  Has your club rented plattekill for this upcoming year? And if so what is the date?


I have not heard about plans to rent out Pico, but I can ask. From what I understand we are still able to get somewhat discounted tickets on day trips to Pico (and I adore Pico!). The OC Ski Club is hosting their winter carnival at Plattekill on Thursday, February 17, 2022. From what I understand, there will also be free private lessons available to all OC club members who pre-register. The lessons will be provided by the OC Ski Club ski school instructors.


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## abc (Nov 10, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> In that region there’s A-Basin and then everything else. But I’d take everything else over copper. Maybe copper over Vail. They’re both incredibly boring if you’re looking for anything more adventurous than mild intermediate. If I recall correctly @Zand will agree re:copper





Zand said:


> There's SOME decent stuff at Copper off the very top and down by Super Bee. But the vast majority of it is Okemo west. If you like groomers but not as posh as Vail and Breck it's a great place. I was missing Winter Park a lot when went there.


Didn’t someone mention (a couple page back) AZ doesn’t represent the skiing demographic?


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## Cobbold (Nov 10, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> I have not heard about plans to rent out Pico, but I can ask. From what I understand we are still able to get somewhat discounted tickets on day trips to Pico (and I adore Pico!). The OC Ski Club is hosting their winter carnival at Plattekill on Thursday, February 17, 2022. From what I understand, there will also be free private lessons available to all OC club members who pre-register. The lessons will be provided by the OC Ski Club ski school instructors.


Is Schenectady ski club part of this rental at plattekill?  Pico is one fun place to ski at least in my opinion.


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## boston_e (Nov 10, 2021)

What would a typical lift ticket cost to a club member at the discounted club member rate?


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## ThatGuy (Nov 10, 2021)

boston_e said:


> What would a typical lift ticket cost to a club member at the discounted club member rate?





			http://www.njssc.org/wp-content/uploads/Killington-Pico-2021-2022-Ski-Council-Appreciation-Days.pdf


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 10, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Is Schenectady ski club part of this rental at plattekill?  Pico is one fun place to ski at least in my opinion.


No, SWC is not involved. It’s an OC Ski Club event.


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## boston_e (Nov 10, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> http://www.njssc.org/wp-content/uploads/Killington-Pico-2021-2022-Ski-Council-Appreciation-Days.pdf


Thanks, I didn’t follow your links before.  So at $180ish “window” rate, the $90ish for this is still a “good deal” - but even at $90 / day it does not take many days to justify the cost of one of these passes.


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## ss20 (Nov 10, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Thanks, I didn’t follow your links before.  So at $180ish “window” rate, the $90ish for this is still a “good deal” - but even at $90 / day it does not take many days to justify the cost of one of these passes.



5 years ago you could find a ski club ticket at a big mountain VT/NH/ME resort for $50-$60 a day...no pre-purchase required.  The olden years lol.  I distinctly remember Mount Snow would give you the group rate price just by showing your club membership card...it was something like $45 midweek and $60-$70 weekends.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 11, 2021)

ss20 said:


> 5 years ago you could find a ski club ticket at a big mountain VT/NH/ME resort for $50-$60 a day...no pre-purchase required.  The olden years lol.  I distinctly remember Mount Snow would give you the group rate price just by showing your club membership card...it was something like $45 midweek and $60-$70 weekends.


My high school ski clubs yearly trip to Mt. Snow was like $50 a person I’m sure that deal is long gone.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 11, 2021)

Once Vail took over ,ski club discounts were ended at Stowe.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 11, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Maybe they are looking at the climate science and have decided to get everything they can while we still have regular winters.
> 
> They gotta be looking at the predictions and making plans based around them. You’d be foolish to not be.



Corporations do not have 100 year plans.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 11, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> Loveland?  I really enjoy it there.


I prefered Loveland over Arapahoe Basin.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 11, 2021)

ss20 said:


> 5 years ago you could find a ski club ticket at a big mountain VT/NH/ME resort for $50-$60 a day.


Or much less.  $40 was common, even $20-$25 at a few places were a steal.  EPIC/IKON killed all that (intentionally).


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## Smellytele (Nov 11, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> I prefered Loveland over Arapahoe Basin.


Loved them both


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## boston_e (Nov 11, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> .  EPIC/IKON killed all that (intentionally).


Indeed - all a part of the business model trying to steer people away from tickets and to passes.


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## Abubob (Nov 11, 2021)

Just saw an ad on IMDb streaming for either Epic or Ikon (can’t remember which) but they made $93 a day sound like such a DEAL!


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## Harvey (Nov 11, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Corporations do not have 100 year plans.


Rob Katz is compensated on next quarters results. He isn't concerned with the long term growth of skiing.

Really though, who is?  Very few who are responsible for ticket pricing.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 11, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> I prefered Loveland over Arapahoe Basin.


I like Loveland a lot but better than A  Basin? I thought you were a better skier than that


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## PAabe (Nov 11, 2021)

Storm skiing interview earlier this year with Montage owner was interesting.  They are trying to keep walk up rates reasonable or even cheap on off-peak times.  He said, they have to make the snow anyway, so may as well try to attract the crowds midweek and nights.  It was noted that people coming midweek often appreciate their "ski-for-all" $35/$40 rate for day ticket+rentals, and the midweek customers are largely people with non Monday-Friday 9-5 schedules like the service industry or students, and are often locals.

He said that if they can get people to come to Montage once, there is a good chance they will keep coming back, especially locals, younger people, and new skiers, and ultimately that is good for their business.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 12, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Indeed - all a part of the business model trying to steer people away from tickets and to passes.


All part of the business model to put smaller ski areas out of business.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 12, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Maybe they are looking at the climate science and have decided to get everything they can while we still have regular winters.
> 
> They gotta be looking at the predictions and making plans based around them. You’d be foolish to not be.


If they were, why would summer operations at Attitash be shut down still? Pre Vail there would be hour+ lift lines for the Alpine Slides. There would be hundreds of families there using the water park etc. 

Now, Alpine slides over grown with weeds, no mountain biking this year etc. if you believe in global warming, why wouldn’t you be making a HUGE push for summer activities at your mountains? Same with Wildcat, no zip line this past summer? Vail is having trouble looking two weeks ahead, never mind two years or decades. Sad really. While other places are making a big push, Vail just doesn’t care. Even look at independent places like Berkshire East. They have made a huge push towards mountain biking investing a few million $ into it. It is world class and people travel to get by here because the biking is amazing. They also have zip lines etc. on the Nice weekends during the summer the parking lot is FULL!


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## Abubob (Nov 12, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> If they were, why would summer operations at Attitash be shut down still? Pre Vail there would be hour+ lift lines for the Alpine Slides. There would be hundreds of families there using the water park etc.
> 
> Now, Alpine slides over grown with weeds, no mountain biking this year etc. if you believe in global warming, why wouldn’t you be making a HUGE push for summer activities at your mountains? Same with Wildcat, no zip line this past summer? Vail is having trouble looking two weeks ahead, never mind two years or decades. Sad really. While other places are making a big push, Vail just doesn’t care. Even look at independent places like Berkshire East. They have made a huge push towards mountain biking investing a few million $ into it. It is world class and people travel to get by here because the biking is amazing. They also have zip lines etc. on the Nice weekends during the summer the parking lot is FULL!


Something about a global pandemic?


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## eatskisleep (Nov 12, 2021)

Abubob said:


> Something about a global pandemic?


Everyplace else is open and thriving. Look at Berkshire East for example. Place is MOBBED during the summer. North Conway, more crowded than EVER!


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## Abubob (Nov 12, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> Everyplace else is open and thriving. Look at Berkshire East for example. Place is MOBBED during the summer. North Conway, more crowded than EVER!


Then it may have to do with the labor shortage or some inner organizational troubles (both may be related to the pandemic). I wouldn't necessarily say Attitash (Vail) isn't planning for the future with climate change. I'm sure they would LOVE to take advantage of summer crowds.


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## Smellytele (Nov 12, 2021)

Abubob said:


> Then it may have to do with the labor shortage or some inner organizational troubles (both may be related to the pandemic). I wouldn't necessarily say Attitash (Vail) isn't planning for the future with climate change. I'm sure they would LOVE to take advantage of summer crowds.


Not sure about them wanting to to be honest


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 12, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> if you believe in global warming, why wouldn’t you be making a HUGE push for summer activities at your mountains?


If you believe in global warming, why would you fly on private jets, have oceanfront homes, eat red meat, own dogs & other pets, or _________ (insert 10001 other things here).


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 12, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I like Loveland a lot but better than A  Basin? I thought you were a better skier than that



I'm a terrible skier, but there's plenty of great terrain at Loveland.  I like Arapahoe Basin as well, but I think their back bowl is overrated.  Really the place is mostly about the wall (which is admittedly awesome).  There's something to be said about mountain culture too, and I really like how Mom & Pop and family "everybody knows your name" Loveland is.  It's like a western Plattekill.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 13, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> If you believe in global warming, why would you fly on private jets, have oceanfront homes, eat red meat, own dogs & other pets, or _________ (insert 10001 other things here).


Haha truth! Over 400 private jets went to the COP26 climate seminar in Glasgow. Ridiculous. Fly commercial like everyone else if you really care.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 13, 2021)

lol. A-basin is not “all about” the wall. pally, the steep gullies, the beavers, and Zuma all say you’re mistaken. If it’s “all about” anything it’s Pally, one of the best chairs in the country in terms of terrain served


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## raisingarizona (Nov 13, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> lol. A-basin is not “all about” the wall. pally, the steep gullies, the beavers, and Zuma all say you’re mistaken. If it’s “all about” anything it’s Pally, one of the best chairs in the country in terms of terrain served


Let’s not leave out the beach and the tailgating scene or those incredibly delicious bloody Mary’s! 

There’s a bunch of fun and playful lines in the bowl just below the wall as well.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 13, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Let’s not leave out the beach and the tailgating scene or those incredibly delicious bloody Mary’s!
> 
> There’s a bunch of fun and playful lines in the bowl just below the wall as well.


'
and the early open late close season that hits july 4 sometimes


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## fbrissette (Nov 13, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> Haha truth! Over 400 private jets went to the COP26 climate seminar in Glasgow. Ridiculous. Fly commercial like everyone else if you really care.


COP26 is a carbon free conference.  A lot of the participants flying there are buying carbon offsets.  Not all of them for sure, but more than you think.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 13, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> '
> and the early open late close season that hits july 4 sometimes


And the soul factor! I think it’s pretty rad that they decided to no longer go with ikon or whatever mega pass conglomeration they had been a part of  in an effort to keep the skiing there better for their customers and locals. 

Has any other area done this yet?


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## skiur (Nov 13, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> COP26 is a carbon free conference.  A lot of the participants flying there are buying carbon offsets.  Not all of them for sure, but more than you think.



Still hypocritical of them to fly there in a private jet.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 13, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> COP26 is a carbon free conference.  A lot of the participants flying there are buying carbon offsets.  Not all of them for sure, but more than you think.


Buying a carbon offset is like taking a giant dump in one yard but shoveling a little shit out of the manure pile in another.


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## jimk (Nov 13, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> And the soul factor! I think it’s pretty rad that they decided to no longer go with ikon or whatever mega pass conglomeration they had been a part of  in an effort to keep the skiing there better for their customers and locals.
> 
> Has any other area done this yet?


Agree, A-Basin has the goods.  Loveland's nice too though.  A-Basin switched from Epic to Ikon.  Didn't Snowbasin go from mtn collective to Epic?  Probably been a few others too.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 13, 2021)

Unlimited epic to 5 day ikon is a significant step in the correct direction


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## snoseek (Nov 13, 2021)

The draw to Loveland is people drive past it. You don't see a lot of people from the east coast there and its not on Epic or Ikon. I changed my passes up often in my Colorado days but always without fail held a Loveland pass to get away from all the bs. The terrain at Abasin is far superior but if you like windblown chalk Loveland is a dream.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 13, 2021)

snoseek said:


> The draw to Loveland is people drive past it. You don't see a lot of people from the east coast there and its not on Epic or Ikon. I changed my passes up often in my Colorado days but always without fail held a Loveland pass to get away from all the bs. The terrain at Abasin is far superior but if you like windblown chalk Loveland is a dream.


I love the wind buff! More so than even blower!


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 13, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> COP26 is a carbon free conference.  *A lot of the participants flying there are buying carbon offsets.*



ROTFLMAO.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 13, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Buying a carbon offset is like taking a giant dump in one yard but shoveling a little shit out of the manure pile in another.



*Carbon offset *- (noun) - A way rich people live as hypocritical as they like while polluting as much as they like via duping naïve people.   Usually, but not always, while simultaneously preaching to those same naïve people.


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## mister moose (Nov 13, 2021)

skiur said:


> Still hypocritical of them to fly there in a private jet.



Yes and no.

You really need to look at the aircraft and the number of passengers.  If the private jet has similar seat miles per gallon with seats full or nearly full, you really can't make this claim.   However with only a few seats filled, it's a way more inefficient use of resources.  For some reason the popular rhetoric isn't interested in those details, and "private jet" suffers in the popular finger pointing culture.  


How about it's hypocritical of them to fly there at all, instead of a zoom meeting.


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## abc (Nov 13, 2021)

mister moose said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> You really need to look at the aircraft and the number of passengers.  If the private jet has similar seat miles per gallon with seats full or nearly full, you really can't make this claim.   However with only a few seats filled, it's a way more inefficient use of resources.  For some reason the popular rhetoric isn't interested in those details, and "private jet" suffers in the popular finger pointing culture.
> 
> ...


It’s like asking why take a chair instead of skinning up


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 13, 2021)

mister moose said:


> How about* it's hypocritical of them to fly there at all, instead of a zoom meeting.*



Correct.  This rather obvious point precludes your entire preamble.   They're there to drink fantastic wine, have sex with hookers, be interviewed & feel important, and revel in their collective, smug, self-righteous, elitism.

Intelligent people have understood this for many years, the naïve still haven't caught on.


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## skiur (Nov 14, 2021)

mister moose said:


> How about it's hypocritical of them to fly there at all, instead of a zoom meeting.



Thank you captain obvious.


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## VTKilarney (Nov 14, 2021)

mister moose said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> You really need to look at the aircraft and the number of passengers.  If the private jet has similar seat miles per gallon with seats full or nearly full, you really can't make this claim.   However with only a few seats filled, it's a way more inefficient use of resources.  For some reason the popular rhetoric isn't interested in those details, and "private jet" suffers in the popular finger pointing culture.
> 
> ...



Private jets don’t have similar seat miles per gallon.


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## boston_e (Nov 15, 2021)

Not Vermont but a day ticket at Steamboat can be up to $269 during peak days


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## 1dog (Nov 15, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Correct.  This rather obvious point precludes your entire preamble.   They're there to drink fantastic wine, have sex with hookers, be interviewed & feel important, and revel in their collective, smug, self-righteous, elitism.
> 
> Intelligent people have understood this for many years, the naïve still haven't caught on.


















 wasn't it Rod Stewart who said, 'every picture tells a story , don't it'?


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## Smellytele (Nov 15, 2021)

1dog said:


> wasn't it Rod Stewart who said, 'every picture tells a story , don't it'?




Do you have a chart saying what each countries CO2 emisions are?
Per capita emissions maybe misleading as how much has the population grown?
So the whole picture is not being shown. So every picture can tell what story you want it to.
numbers used and not used and graphs can be used to show what you want unfortunately.


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## cdskier (Nov 15, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Do you have a chart saying what each countries CO2 emisions are?
> Per capita emissions maybe misleading as how much has the population grown?
> So the whole picture is not being shown. So every picture can tell what story you want it to.
> numbers used and not used and graphs can be used to show what you want unfortunately.


Yup...very valid point. The US is number 2 globally in terms of the amount of overall CO2 emissions produced.


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## urungus (Nov 15, 2021)

1dog said:


> wasn't it Rod Stewart who said, 'every picture tells a story , don't it'?



It was Mark Twain who popularized the phrase “there are three kinds of lies:  lies, damned lies, and statistics”

eg
Using per capita stats and not accounting for population growth
Using 1973, just before the oil crisis, as a base of comparison
Showing amount of reduction/increase, without showing the baseline (total) amount of emissions to compare it against
Using data provided by British Petroleum (would you trust smoking stats coming from Philip Morris)
etc


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## fbrissette (Nov 15, 2021)

As others have said, these graphs are incredib;y misleading.  How about this:


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## fbrissette (Nov 15, 2021)

China now leads the world in CO2 emissions.   But you have to realize that China's emissions belong to the Western world in large parts.   They pollute more because we (North-Americans, Europeans and others) are perfectly happy with the cheap goods made in China, with little consideration to the global impact on the environment .


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## 1dog (Nov 15, 2021)

fbrissette said:


> China now leads the world in CO2 emissions.   But you have to realize that China's emissions belong to the Western world in large parts.   They pollute more because we (North-Americans, Europeans and others) are perfectly happy with the cheap goods made in China, with little consideration to the global impact on the environment .


Agree - opening up coal plants every month. and yes Twain, but instead, lets trust the COPS folks and people who wanna reduce what we exhale and plants inhale, ( even though those same people can't figure out how to distribute 100 container ships worth of goods stuck in Long Beach harbor, or make $4.5T in annual income cover the basic costs of running a 'free country')   
OK. 


Hows this:




Or maybe have a discussion on mining rare earth minerals to make batteries ( never mind the travel the materials have to do from Canada to UK to China, et al. And disposal of solar panels once they are used up) it's amazing what we can accomplish with OPM.


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## Kingslug20 (Nov 16, 2021)

Fusion......will be interesting to see who will win that one.


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## MidnightJester (Oct 3, 2022)

So might as well add onto the list and get this updated this season by starting on a better end of the spectrum 

Smugglers Notch now has a regular season $85 full day lift ticket price that seems familiar but not sure though lol.
They have added a $99 full day lift ticket on "Holidays" that I don't remember.
$5-RFID card fee not included


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## Abubob (Oct 3, 2022)

fbrissette said:


> … we (North-Americans, Europeans and others) are perfectly happy with the cheap goods made in China, with little consideration to the global impact on the environment .


Sorry for the belated response here but … “perfectly happy” is a gross overstatement. “We” are rarely given a choice where our goods come from. Even when we are the price difference is disturbing to say the least. When you are struggling financially the choice is usually forced. Happy? No. Not happy. 

Prices set according to the notion “what the market can bear” is also a gross overstatement. In most cases it’s not a choice at all. Unless you call freezing to death in a tent a choice. 

.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 3, 2022)

Abubob said:


> “perfectly happy” is a gross overstatement. “We” are rarely given a choice where our goods come from. Even when we are the price difference is disturbing to say the least. When you are struggling *financially the choice is usually forced. Happy? No. Not happy.*


But apparently "happier" than "voluntarily" spending far more of your income on a non-Chinese source.   Hmmm.....


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## MidnightJester (Oct 3, 2022)

I hope the lift ticket prices aren't rising from Chinese man made snow outsourcing and the Chinese man made snow these days is a little rough on my board too.
 I hope they go back to good old USA man made snow in Vermont  Its made with responsibly sourced water with better ice crystal spacing and grouping of H's and O's


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## 1dog (Oct 3, 2022)

What's the break-even on an( early purchase) Epic or Ikon given an average walk up ticket price? 

Believe Bush was $169? $Stowe $179? Mt Snow/Killington? Say $120 average? Is that fair? At $900 8 days is break even. 

cost of lodging and gas adds $$600 per weekend on a 24MPG/$3.75 gal.,  r/t of 6 hours, 400 miles  and $$250-$275 per night at a decent hotel? 
4 tickets, 2 people,  $480- $1100 before F&B. 

Smuggs sounds awful appealing given those price points.  ( add an hour to my commute tho)

Won't need much man-made - its gonna dump this year, I can feel it. Squirrels everywhere, wooly caterpillars,and so far, lots of acorns.

Does China sell cheaper lift tickets?


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## Abubob (Oct 3, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> But apparently "happier" than "voluntarily" spending far more of your income on a non-Chinese source.   Hmmm.....


Right. Ecstatic.


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## mister moose (Oct 3, 2022)

MidnightJester said:


> Smugglers Notch now has a regular season $85 full day lift ticket price that seems familiar but not sure though lol.
> They have added a $99 full day lift ticket on "Holidays" that I don't remember.
> $5-RFID card fee not included





1dog said:


> What's the break-even on an( early purchase) Epic or Ikon given an average walk up ticket price?
> Mt Snow/Killington? Say $120 average? Is that fair? At $900 8 days is break even.
> 
> cost of lodging and gas adds $$600 per weekend on a 24MPG/$3.75 gal.,  r/t of 6 hours, 400 miles  and $$250-$275 per night at a decent hotel?
> ...


Depends.  If you compare to prices available now it goes like this:

Killington full boat not announced yet, but in the neighborhood of $179.  Right now you can buy K tickets for $89, 8th is free.  Season pass (30-64) is $1,289, so you break even at 7.2 full walk up tickets, or ~8.6 on line advance tickets, or 14.3 (pus 2 free, 16 ski days) K tickets.

IKON is $1,179 right now, but limits you to 7 days at each resort, unlimited at Sugarbush and Stratton.

If you are going to ski more than 15 days, buy a half share at a ski house.


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## machski (Oct 5, 2022)

MidnightJester said:


> So might as well add onto the list and get this updated this season by starting on a better end of the spectrum
> 
> Smugglers Notch now has a regular season $85 full day lift ticket price that seems familiar but not sure though lol.
> They have added a $99 full day lift ticket on "Holidays" that I don't remember.
> $5-RFID card fee not included


Stowe is $199 peak days this season, plus $30 to park (unless you car pool big enough or park at touring center and bus up).


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## 2Planker (Oct 5, 2022)

Learned from the Fryburg Fair folks....
     We're paving our  entire front yard at SR. 25-30 spaces, no blocking.  200 yards to South Ridge.  $50/day


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## thetrailboss (Oct 5, 2022)

machski said:


> Stowe is $199 peak days this season, plus $30 to park (unless you car pool big enough or park at touring center and bus up).


Out of curiosity, how does this walk-up rate compare to the last days of AIG?  I think it is not that much more.....


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## 2Planker (Oct 5, 2022)

Snomaking season is here to stay.
KMart has World Cup Tix going on sale 10am tomorrow


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## cdskier (Oct 5, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Out of curiosity, how does this walk-up rate compare to the last days of AIG?  I think it is not that much more.....


It was $124 walk up and $92 online that last season pre-vail at Stowe.


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## Hawk (Oct 6, 2022)

The last 4 or 5 yeasrs I skied at Stowe I used the Vermont Ski Association 3 pack ticket.  Even those have changed  in Price.  I wonder what that will be this year?  Maybe vail put a stop to that also?


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## jaytrem (Oct 6, 2022)

Hawk said:


> The last 4 or 5 yeasrs I skied at Stowe I used the Vermont Ski Association 3 pack ticket.  Even those have changed  in Price.  I wonder what that will be this year?  Maybe vail put a stop to that also?


They're still in the VT association and have rejoined the NH one (Peak had dropped out).  Seems like the only state ski association Vail has ever dumped was CO.


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## PAabe (Oct 7, 2022)

Vail stopped participating in  Pennsylvania's programs and is a big reason why the statewide 4th and 5th grade ski pass fell apart.  They own about half of the ski areas in PA now


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 9, 2022)

PAabe said:


> *Vail stopped participating in  Pennsylvania's programs and is a big reason why the statewide 4th and 5th grade ski pass fell apart. * *They own about half of the ski areas in PA now*



Something, something, thank god Vail at least cultivates the tiny feeder hills, something, something, something.....


----------

