# 22/23 Passes



## thebigo (Mar 1, 2022)

Pass prices starting to be posted:

WV - $1036 with kids ski free
WMSP - $1155
Cannon NH resident - $561, out of state - $749
BW - $945
Cranmore - $735

Pats - on sale March 7, no pricing yet
Gunstock - on sale March 4, no pricing

We are likely going 4X Ragged, 2X Pats midweek and Ikon blackout.


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## Smellytele (Mar 1, 2022)

Might go back to Indy next year and May get another in the spring. So 4 days at magic, Jay, Bolton, cannon, Waterville, saddleback. Plus 25% off 2 more times at each if needed.


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## ss20 (Mar 1, 2022)

I hear there could be a pretty big re-shuffling of Ikon with additional tiers and price points beyond the Full and the Base.  Also more restricted access to more non-Alterra mountains.

Full disclosure- this was just chairlift banter I heard from a couple of different groups.  Not insider knowledge I heard from any of my peers/connections.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 2, 2022)

Indy details


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## Dickc (Mar 11, 2022)

Stopped in at Pats Peak and bought a 22-23 season pass and had it printed out.  $389.  I can use it the rest of this month too.  No blackouts, senior pricing.


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## bousquet19 (Mar 12, 2022)

Any ideas when Epic Pass prices and related details will be announced for 2022-23?

Woody


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## urungus (Mar 12, 2022)

bousquet19 said:


> Any ideas when Epic Pass prices and related details will be announced for 2022-23?
> 
> Woody


Last year it was March 23


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## Zermatt (Mar 15, 2022)

Mountain Collective is out.  Added Snowbasin and Sun Valley.  Pretty worthless pass for people from the east unless you want to do a western road trip.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2022)

Finished up my purchases today.

Gunstock Adult: $569
Gunstock Junior:  $359
Gunstock Buckaroo: $49
Renewed Adult and Youth Indy Plus: $514 for both
Sunday seasonal Devo for my 4 year old: $300
Sunday seasonal Race Devo for my 7 year old $370. 

$2161.  

I'm pleased.  Pretty solid value for a skiing family of 3 (wife doesn't ski) with access to plenty of variety and the instruction benefits for my kids.  I dig that Gunstock offers their seasonal programs by the day vs making you commit to the same mountain both days.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 19, 2022)

gonna be ikon and indy+. leaning towards full ikon to get the extra killington/no blackouts/sun valley+jackson. not doing magic sunday again unfortunately.

i have eyes on my big trip next year being NYC > SLC > beaver mountain > jackson > sun valley > powmow > snowbasin > SLC > nyc.

i'm also pulled back towards interior BC now that going to candaa will be easier. gf and i are going to montreal for the weekend of june 10. sigur ros in a fancy venue. good eats. nice hotel. very excited to go back to canada.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 19, 2022)

just priced it all out. renewal prices apply across tiers, ie., my status as a base pass holder entitles me to renewal price on any product.

the ikon base pass is $719 renewal price

if you go "base pass plus" to add jackson/sun valley/snowbasin, you are at $919 renewal price

if you go full pass to get everything on bass plus + 7 days at all limited destinations instead of 5 + no blackouts, $979 renewal

that decides that for me, you get a lot more for the $250 difference, and planning is so much easier without having to jump thru any hoops around blackouts. the extra killington days will make a difference. i tend to really ration those as K is the best combo of distance/terrain/easy driving/cheap lodging for me. will end up paying for some magic a la carte but thats fine, they can always take my money in one way or another.

so i'll be $979 ikon + $345 indyplus


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## pinion247 (Mar 19, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i have eyes on my big trip next year being NYC > SLC > beaver mountain > jackson > sun valley > powmow > snowbasin > SLC > nyc.



Nice! I’m working on something similar: BOS to Jackson. Ski JH, drive to Sun Valley, drive into SLC, Powder, Snowbasin, Alta, Snowbird, Deer Valley. SLC back to Boston. 1.5 weeks. Gonna put this Ikon Pass to work next year (honestly it paid for itself this year with just 3x DV, 1x Alta, and 10% off food).


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 19, 2022)

nice. i've found the flights and rental cars are pretty expensive when i don't have a simple round trip, so i like to do loops. none of the chunks of driving are that long except for jackson to sun valley, which is like 5 hours. normal new england stuff. sketchier roads tho.


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## abc (Mar 19, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> none of the chunks of driving are that long except for jackson to sun valley, which is like 5 hours. normal new england stuff. sketchier roads tho.


I did that stretch a few years back. Actually, twice. 

To make the sketchy roads more tolerable, I break the 5 hr drive into evening and morning segments, ensuring I go over the sketchy part (Teton pass?) in daylight. 

Yes, a single night motel in the middle of desolate nowhere is less than ideal. But the trade off of safe (and somewhat relaxed) drive was worth it.


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## Dickc (Mar 19, 2022)

As I noted previously, I bought the Pats peak pass.  I'm going to be eyeing gas prices over the next months and into the fall.  I can easily do a few Boyne e-tickets a day before going, and I may pick up the Indy pass if gas prices drop enough.  Indy can be bought much later in the season without much price increase.


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## machski (Mar 19, 2022)

Look out, must be those Evil Epic and Ikon passes driving folks to other options.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 19, 2022)

machski said:


> Look out, must be those Evil Epic and Ikon passes driving folks to other options.


Park City is not that far away and a lot of folks are pissed there.  

Additionally there are a lot of new homes at PowMow.  And a lot more remote workers moving up there.


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## JimG. (Mar 19, 2022)

Everyone loves skiing out west!


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## Zermatt (Mar 20, 2022)

machski said:


> Look out, must be those Evil Epic and Ikon passes driving folks to other options.


Or directly from their website:

*Season Pass Sale Update*​Powder Mountain is experiencing unprecedented demand for season pass renewals this season which is causing us to reexamine our pass offerings moving forward. We will not be opening sales up to Night Pass Holders or Waitlist guests as originally scheduled and plan to rework our pass program to ensure we maintain the Powder Mountain experience for all our guests. 
Those who purchase property in the Powder Mountain neighborhoods will still be guaranteed access to season passes through our membership program and we are exploring ways to enhance mountain access to our true local communities while avoiding some of the issues our fellow mountains are dealing with.  
Please stay tuned for announcements regarding passes and exciting developments we are working on to enhance our beloved Powder Mountain.


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## djd66 (Mar 20, 2022)

Never been to Powder Mountain, what’s it like?

The website says it averages 500”/year, but this year they only show 230”.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 20, 2022)

the entire west had a garbage season and is in drought. they get the same snow as the rest of the region more or less. a bit lower than the cottonwoods. further north. 

its huge and mostly intermediate and they do a really good job at managing capacity so it never feels crowded.


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## Zermatt (Mar 20, 2022)

djd66 said:


> Never been to Powder Mountain, what’s it like?
> 
> The website says it averages 500”/year, but this year they only show 230”.


Given their location it makes no sense they would get 500" per year when Snowbasin only gets 300".


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## snoseek (Mar 20, 2022)

500 inches is a stretch. Lots of that space is super low angle but can be very nice cruisy powder turns. The best stuff is served by the bus imo. The exposure is a bit funky so often the sun and wind get it before the skiers do.


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## gmcunni (Mar 20, 2022)

Epic, 100%.   only question is epic vs epic local, will scout vacation options once i see which resorts, if any, add to list.


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## nycskier (Mar 20, 2022)

$109 for the Indy Kids pass is a great deal. 2 weekend days at Mohawk and the pass is paid for. Total no brainer. The Adult is tougher. I need 6 days to come out ahead and am not sure I will get that in.


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## snoseek (Mar 21, 2022)

Next year's epic is out. Up slightly. I was expecting more of a bump in price tbh.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 21, 2022)

Might do the 7 Day Epic Day pass in addition to Indy


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## machski (Mar 21, 2022)

snoseek said:


> Next year's epic is out. Up slightly. I was expecting more of a bump in price tbh.


Why?  They stink performance wise this year, betting they know sales will be down regardless.  If they jacked prices, sales would likely take an ever bigger hit.  They bet on low pricing, can't give that up after just one year.  Especially given their operational performance.


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## Edd (Mar 21, 2022)

If Vail gives no promises of operating Wildcat normally, I’m not buying. I don’t expect that to happen.


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## cdskier (Mar 21, 2022)

machski said:


> Why?  They stink performance wise this year, betting they know sales will be down regardless.  If they jacked prices, sales would likely take an ever bigger hit.  They bet on low pricing, can't give that up after just one year.  Especially given their operational performance.


Completely agree. I was half expecting them to either have no increase or even to offer a slightly bigger discount this year to try to entice people to renew and give them another chance...

Of course the real question is how many people that claim they won't renew will follow through with that. I'm sure some will follow through, but I also think some of the people that complained about them in the end will give in and renew. I'm somewhat expecting their sales to be relatively flat this year compared to last year. They might get just enough new people to offset the people that don't renew.


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## pinion247 (Mar 21, 2022)

I would bet on sales being slightly down year over year, partly due to dissatisfaction in the product and partly due to those who were just looking for a post-COVID relief activity in 2021 not buying back in.

Vail does have their core demo locked in and understood though, and pass sales in the next 6 months will likely validate that. The core Epic client are those who won't notice/care that burgers and water go up $2 each and more paid parking gets instituted. They don't care about midweek. They don't care about NE areas outside of the full-service resorts. They don't care about long lines that much because it was _4 runs and done_ anyway so at least they can tell their friends they ski all day now. The sport is for all so there's nothing wrong with catering to this clientele but I would imagine it would be difficult to bring in more US-based partner resorts because of it. And it allows for flat/declining pass sales because $$ spent per person will go up. So once the dust settles from this year and they can show some measurable improvement in operations, Wall Street should give the thumbs up to a return to acquisitions and we'll be right back here in a few years with new reasons as to why *Vail Sucks*. Or less likely, reasons why we all were wrong and should have given them a chance.

And then there's my personal predicament that I know others share: for those with property in MWV, Vail has 50% of the close proximity resorts. And of the other 50%, one is groomed top to bottom 100% and the other can't find a way to operate meaningfully for more than 2 months. 

An Ikon Pass and window tickets at Cranmore/Black/wherever is what's on tap for 2022/2023 but not set in stone yet.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 21, 2022)

Magic Mountain Full Pass 
Indy Add-On
Epic Northeast Midweek

Magic and Indy is a great combo, probably do another trip out West as well. 
As much as I hate Vail Mount Snow is less than an hour from me and is a great hedge for days Magic is not open or during early season for available terrain. Would never go there on a weekend so weekdays only is perfect. Five days at Stowe is an added bonus that I will take advantage of. 
Crazy I can get three passes for less than a full IKON, shows the disparity between bargain basement and a semi-premier experience.


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 21, 2022)

ITs funny some days I get 30 emails from Vail and their "properties"  Today their passes go on sale and not a damn thing...


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## Apple Country (Mar 21, 2022)

Epic Local Passholder this year. Went to Snow, Okemo, Stowe, Crotched and Sunapee this year.  Will drop to Epic day pass to get a getaway weekend with SO at Stowe.     We are looking for kid programs so that's a main driver for 2022-23. Based in Mass. so likely do Wachusett, Berkshire East, or Ragged and day ticket elsewhere. Wachusett has some good partner ticket rates. I like dirtbagging anyways.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 21, 2022)

Apple Country said:


> Epic Local Passholder this year. Went to Snow, Okemo, Stowe, Crotched and Sunapee this year.  Will drop to Epic day pass to get a getaway weekend with SO at Stowe.     We are looking for kid programs so that's a main driver for 2022-23. Based in Mass. so likely do Wachusett, Berkshire East, or Ragged and day ticket elsewhere. Wachusett has some good partner ticket rates. I like dirtbagging anyways.


Berkshire East would also get you a pass for Catamount and Bosquet plus you could get an Indy Pass Add-On as well with that.


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## abc (Mar 21, 2022)

Epic Local this year. IKON Base next.

Nothing to do with Vail hate. That had always been my plan, flip flopping back and forth -- typically 2-3 year IKON to 1 year Epic as IKON has more geographically diverse destination resorts as better weather assurance (also Alterra resorts has more diverse "character", to suit my mood) .


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## machski (Mar 21, 2022)

We did Epic Local primarily to have access to Crotched for a close to primary home area.  The reduced days and nights killed that plan.  We still did a 2 week swing in CO and got a few days at Crotched still and a couple at Sunapee.  Wasn't good enough to venture to VT when we could have.  Won't do an Epic this year, Silver NEP with the NE Anyday 3 add on to recoup 3 blackout days.  Probably add Indy too to give Pat's/WVV/Cannon options close to home.  Definitely will use Jay and hopefullly Magic too if we do.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 21, 2022)

Apple Country said:


> Epic Local Passholder this year. Went to Snow, Okemo, Stowe, Crotched and Sunapee this year.  Will drop to Epic day pass to get a getaway weekend with SO at Stowe.     We are looking for kid programs so that's a main driver for 2022-23. Based in Mass. so likely do Wachusett, Berkshire East, or Ragged and day ticket elsewhere. Wachusett has some good partner ticket rates. I like dirtbagging anyways.



I was quite pleased with the Gunstock seasonal programs for my kids this season.  A nice thing about them is you book by the day.  So, you're not roped into the same mountain both weekend days.  Just throwing that option out there if you hadn't considered it.


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## urungus (Mar 21, 2022)

Renewed Berkshire East Unlimited Summit Pass @ early bird price of $499 and added blackout-free Indy+ add-on @ $260.10 ($289 - 10% renewal code) 

New benefit this year for people renewing their Berkshire East pass before March 31:

Renewing Unlimited and Locals Passholders will receive a total of four new “Sidecar” friends and family lift ticket discounts for next year automatically loaded on your pass if purchased through 3/31. Included are two vouchers for $35 midweek, non-holiday lift tickets and two any-day vouchers redeemable for $75 lift tickets for winter 22/23.


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## NYDB (Mar 21, 2022)

It's going to be another year of Ikon and Magic Passes for my family of four. 

Felt like I didn't quite get my moneys worth this season with the early shitty season and late shitty season (an no trip out west yet - planning on an easter break trip to hit A Basin, copper and loveland), but hoping for a solid snow year next year and a family trip and a few solo jaunts out west.  Reducing workload this year will help in this regard. 

Maybe something like 18-19 season would be great snowfall wise.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 21, 2022)

Epic prices out and still lower than IKON.  Some think too low.  









						Vail Resorts Keeps Epic Pass Prices Low For Next Season (Locals Outraged)
					

Vail Resorts has the made the bold decision to keep their Epic Pass price significantly below their largest competitor- the Ikon Pass. The full-fledged Epic Pass is currently on sale at $841, and t…




					unofficialnetworks.com


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## da-bum (Mar 21, 2022)

I have the Epic Northeast Midweek pass.  Price didn't go up much (to $385), but was significantly higher than when Peak had their pass ($299), and before that, Hunter's price of $199/$229.

EPIC keeps the midweek price high while making the 7 days a week pass only $130 more on the hope that one would just pay that $130 more and get that full pass on the hope that they can have the option to ski on weekends.  But why would anybody want to deal with the weekend crowds and lines (except for taking the workday off, for me). It also doesn't do the locals any favor with that price structure.


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 21, 2022)

Doing same as last season full epic..full ikon..why?  It works


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## snoseek (Mar 21, 2022)

I honestly feel like the main ikon resorts are gonna feel the squeeze next winter with epic refugee overflow but maybe I'm wrong


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 21, 2022)

Im not letting any of this..screw up my seasons...at...all


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## djd66 (Mar 21, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Epic prices out and still lower than IKON.  Some think too low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


did you watch that video?  That is crazy!









						Breck Daily on Instagram: "How in the how?!? @ax7manta #breckenridge #breck #breckdaily #bestofbreck #breckbecause #brecklife #exploresummit #gobreck #breckenridgecolorado #colorado #colorfulcolorado #coloradolife"
					

Breck Daily shared a post on Instagram: "How in the how?!? @ax7manta #breckenridge #breck #breckdaily #bestofbreck #breckbecause #brecklife #exploresummit #gobreck #breckenridgecolorado #colorado #colorfulcolorado #coloradolife". Follow their account to see 1661 posts.




					www.instagram.com


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 21, 2022)

snoseek said:


> *I honestly feel like the main ikon resorts are gonna feel the squeeze next winter with epic refugee overflow*



Do you mean all the people who now hate EPIC will flee to IKON since the scuttlebutt is the crowding isnt as bad?


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 21, 2022)

As most likely know, I hate these passes  & have never bought one, but I might essentially be forced onto one next year.  Is there a website(s) that gives "real people, real reviews" on how EPIC/IKON have gone done on each of the resorts recently?  I'd like to be able to pull up XYZ IKON or EPIC resort and read about people's experiences with crowding, lift lines, dining services, etc...


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 21, 2022)

Um...you have that here...


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## snoseek (Mar 21, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Do you mean all the people who now hate EPIC will flee to IKON since the scuttlebutt is the crowding isnt as bad?


Yep the pendulum swings the other way. Just a speculation.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 21, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Um...you have that here...



Yeah, for New Hampshire, Mount Snow, and Stowe, but I'm hoping there's something far more comprehensive.  There's probably an EPIC Reddit board or something, I'll just need to find it.


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## Tonyr (Mar 21, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Doing same as last season full epic..full ikon..why?  It works


Doing the same although going with the Epic Local instead as we'll be skiing Ikon mountains over the holiday blackout periods. Will probably switch back to the Mountain Collective and full Epic pass the following year but wanted to try Winter Park, Copper, and Steamboat this season. I'm also very much looking forward to skiing Killington again, I haven't been there with the family in a couple of seasons.


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 21, 2022)

I get the whole fuck epic thing..but..if you live near an epic resort.. your a bit stuck..especialy at Stowe...
Lets see what they do after all this


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## ss20 (Mar 21, 2022)

Might do an Ikon Base.  Hard to justify it as I'll probably only have time for 10 days on it between this spring and next season.  But hard to justify living in Utah and not skiing the great places that are within 10 hours driving distance.  Mammoth and/or Palisades on my radar this spring for a few days.  Then next season probably just a day at Solitude to switch things up, Snowbird in the spring after Alta closes, and ideally one real trip to Big Sky or Colorado.  Of course it's on top of Alta any day I want and one day a week to Snowbird... pretty crap choices, better get that Ikon


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 21, 2022)

Dont let..all this this bs..determine where you ski..just.do..what you want..


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 21, 2022)

ss20 said:


> hard to justify living in Utah and not skiing the great places that are within 10 hours driving distance.



Have you done Sundance yet?  
Surprises me how many people have skied Utah 5, 8, 12 times and have never been.  It's a little gem IMO.


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## snoseek (Mar 21, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Have you done Sundance yet?
> Surprises me how many people have skied Utah 5, 8, 12 times and have never been.  It's a little gem IMO.


I went here for a cold deep storm a few years back to escape the lcc shitshow and found some exceptionally good skiing.
A week later same scenario and found some sweet low angle meadow cruising up at beaver mtn. 50 bucks walk up there!


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## Pez (Mar 22, 2022)

I'm defiantly grabbing a Berkshire East pass before the price goes up.  that's been well worth it this year for me.
Probably do Ikon for a trip out west, Stratton and Killington.
Odds are I skip the epic ne pass... it just didn't get much use this year.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 22, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Have you done Sundance yet?
> Surprises me how many people have skied Utah 5, 8, 12 times and have never been.  It's a little gem IMO.


Especially now with the new HSQ.  Apparently there is a terrain expansion coming up soon.


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## gmcunni (Mar 23, 2022)

Here is a good summary of Epic options


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 23, 2022)

Vails prices should've gone back up to the pre pandemic price.  While I don't really have a choice but to get Epic Local, it's clear that Vail is not serious about preventing crowding


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## drjeff (Mar 23, 2022)

I think that there is a bit of a disparity between the eyes of the consumer, who basically wants minimal to no liftlines on any and every day they want to use their pass and the eyes of the operator of the mountain who wants their resort(s) maxxed out on every day that they operate, which then allows them to more than likely increase their other revenue sources that they generate at the resort (Food and beverage, ski school, retail hard and soft good sales, lodging, etc).

What that happy balance point is, and what the price point it takes to achieve that in a way that allows for solid financial operations is likely going to be something that has 1001 answers based on what perspective you are looking at it from


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## deadheadskier (Mar 23, 2022)

drjeff said:


> I think that there is a bit of a disparity between the eyes of the consumer, who basically wants minimal to no liftlines on any and every day they want to use their pass and the eyes of the operator of the mountain who wants their resort(s) maxxed out on every day that they operate, which then allows them to more than likely increase their other revenue sources that they generate at the resort (Food and beverage, ski school, retail hard and soft good sales, lodging, etc).
> 
> What that happy balance point is, and what the price point it takes to achieve that in a way that allows for solid financial operations is likely going to be something that has 1001 answers based on what perspective you are looking at it from



Sure, but the point is that many people are willing to pay more for a higher quality product with more attentive service.

Kinda like how some people choose to spend their money at a Four Seasons vs a Marriott or a Nordstrom vs Kohls.   The two hotel and department store chains offer the same basic products, but vastly different levels of quality and service. 

That's the problem many people have with Vail.  They turned some of their Nordstrom properties into Kohls. 

Ikon/Alterra certainly seem more committed towards offering that higher quality product.  I'd say Boyne does too


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## Zermatt (Mar 23, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Sure, but the point is that many people are willing to pay more for a higher quality product with more attentive service.
> 
> Kinda like how some people choose to spend their money at a Four Seasons vs a Marriott or a Nordstrom vs Kohls.   The two hotel and department store chains offer the same basic products, but vastly different levels of quality and service.
> 
> ...



To make it even worse.  A family of four (2 adults and 2 kids under 12) renewing on Ikon is $2,416 versus $2,538 on Epic.

So a worse product at a higher price.  But lots of great places to ski in Ohio and Indiana and so many Japan options!


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 23, 2022)

I thought for certain they would've added some blackout dates to Breckenridge, Mount Snow and Okemo (Stowe is already blacked out on the Local).  This to me is telling that they clearly don't care about the crowding.  They'll go through the summer blaming it on COVID and the available workforce.  Then tout that their paying $20/hr min and it will be rainbows and unicorns next season.  

Then Next Season will have to figure out some other BS to explain the crowds, besides they sell too many passes.

I'm sort of stuck with them, and honestly I have little complain about locally and I know better than to ski on the "busy" weeks and weekends in the Northeast. I had hoped to already have visited the Attitash and Wildcat, but not until its clear they will run them better.

I am strongly considering Ikon base as well, to use out west and up north.  I have to see how my father inlaws health issues go through the spring before I spring for that unfortunately.   I basically had the wife on board with Epic local and Ikon Base before this came up.


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## snoseek (Mar 23, 2022)

If vail wants to sell some passes and retain some of their existing customers in nh they really need to give the buyer some basic assurances that next season will be improved and aside from increases pay what exactly is their plan to get there. Also what are they planning on doing at crotched? Back to a regular schedule?


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 23, 2022)

It seems a Stevens Pass like response is warranted, but I'm not sure there is as much public outcry  unfortunately...


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## drjeff (Mar 23, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I thought for certain they would've added some blackout dates to Breckenridge, Mount Snow and Okemo (Stowe is already blacked out on the Local).  This to me is telling that they clearly don't care about the crowding.  They'll go through the summer blaming it on COVID and the available workforce.  Then tout that their paying $20/hr min and it will be rainbows and unicorns next season.
> 
> Then Next Season will have to figure out some other BS to explain the crowds, besides they sell too many passes.
> 
> ...



Strictly speaking about Mount Snow and no blackouts on the Epic local. In a roundabout way, with the paid parking they did this year, they effectively, from what I experienced personally, did reduce the weekend crowds.  Pretty sure there were only 2 or 3 days (might of been a couple more, but definitely not say 10 days) where they sold out all of the parking spaces.  Liftlines, while sizable at times, unless you were talking about a day when weather conditions had some lifts/areas of the mountain on hold, weren't regularly as large as they were before COVID hit. So I can see why they didn't add any blackout days to the Epic local, as even the Blackouts on the Northeast Value pass seemed to play into crowd control as well.  I also do doubt a bit the seriousness of what was said about limit day ticket sales at certain peak volume times.

Did folks like the paid parking thing? Not everyone for sure. (I actually have read some posts on both EPIC and Mount Snow specific social media group sites where some people DO like the paid parking thing, as it has let them at times show up a bit later and park closer than they used to be able to, so those people do exist   )

Also, there are MANY Epic passholders who aren't tied by geographic personal real estate holding to 1 specfic EPIC resort, who do jump around a but, and may also travel West to ski once or twice a season, who do like the flexibility it gives them.  At times on AZ we tend to forget that the core group of people who participate here aren't always indicative of the majority of folks who show up at ski resorts every season. The bottom line seems to be that selling a couple of Million Epic passes does create some issues for sure.  It also helps the cash flow, which can create opportunites too.  Again it seems like how people view this situation will certainly depend on their own experiences both this season, as well as what they have come to expect in prior seasons.

I guess we'll see next year if the steps that they seemingly want to take to improve the "customer experience" effectively transfers from the press release about it to the various slopes of the properties they operate


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## machski (Mar 23, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> It seems a Stevens Pass like response is warranted, but I'm not sure there is as much public outcry  unfortunately...


Think like Broomfield does here for a second.  Other than Whistler/Blackcomb, Vail has no other resort in the PNW.  Stevens is it for an extremely large market (Greater Seattle).  So THEY HAVE to get Stevens right as there are no other options to try and please the masses.

Flash to NH and I think Vail isn't as concerned.  Sure, many folks base out of the NH resorts that have run poorly this season.  But their VT properties have run at a more normal level and that gives options in this region.  Given the breadth of options, I don't see Vail playing the same make up game they are in the PNW.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 23, 2022)

machski said:


> Think like Broomfield does here for a second.  Other than Whistler/Blackcomb, Vail has no other resort in the PNW.  Stevens is it for an extremely large market (Greater Seattle).  So THEY HAVE to get Stevens right as there are no other options to try and please the masses.
> 
> Flash to NH and I think Vail isn't as concerned.  Sure, many folks base out of the NH resorts that have run poorly this season.  But their VT properties have run at a more normal level and that gives options in this region.  Given the breadth of options, I don't see Vail playing the same make up game they are in the PNW.



Agree.

I am a bit confused that the folks out in CO don't seem to get that there are a large number of folks who live in the Boston area, who just don't go to VT for their ski/riding, but do go to NH, and then they probably go out West as well, and to kind of try and "force" them to their VT properties, let alone almost turn a blind eye to the year round draw that North Conway is, is truly confusing.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Mar 23, 2022)

all valid points.  

Its like they really don't see the NH performance as hurting their overall brand.  And perhaps outside of this or a few other corners of the internet it isn't hurting their brand...

Almost anyone else I know locally who skis, has no idea how poorly Attitash and Wildcat have been run into the ground.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 23, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Strictly speaking about Mount Snow and no blackouts on the Epic local. In a roundabout way, with the paid parking they did this year, they effectively, from what I experienced personally, did reduce the weekend crowds.  Pretty sure there were only 2 or 3 days (might of been a couple more, but definitely not say 10 days) where they sold out all of the parking spaces.  Liftlines, while sizable at times, unless you were talking about a day when weather conditions had some lifts/areas of the mountain on hold, weren't regularly as large as they were before COVID hit. So I can see why they didn't add any blackout days to the Epic local, as even the Blackouts on the Northeast Value pass seemed to play into crowd control as well.  I also do doubt a bit the seriousness of what was said about limit day ticket sales at certain peak volume times.
> 
> Did folks like the paid parking thing? Not everyone for sure. (I actually have read some posts on both EPIC and Mount Snow specific social media group sites where some people DO like the paid parking thing, as it has let them at times show up a bit later and park closer than they used to be able to, so those people do exist   )
> 
> ...



It's still hard to qualify normal due to leftover Covid changes in the world, but less than 9% of Northeast Epic Pass holders head West to ski.   Over 90% only ski and care about here. 

I'll echo snoseek in that Vail owes their NH clientele much bigger promises than just increased wages.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Mar 23, 2022)

Is it really that low?   I would say that more than 9% of the people skiing at Roundtop go out west to ski.  My sample size would extend beyond my close ski friends who align closer to posters on this forum than the casual 5 times a year skier.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2022)

there is also a contingent who buys the epic pass solely for their western trip, and don't ski here.

a buddy's wife's dad has a timeshare at beaver creek. they go out there for like 10 days a year. that's their only skiing. they have epic passes.

same buddy is also close with a dude whos family used to own the NJ devils and some newspapers, and he fuckin flew them out to Yellowstone club private all expenses paid. my buddy who struggles to ski down a vermont groomed blue


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## deadheadskier (Mar 23, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Is it really that low?   I would say that more than 9% of the people skiing at Roundtop go out west to ski.  My sample size would extend beyond my close ski friends who align closer to posters on this forum than the casual 5 times a year skier.



It's a little higher in the mid Atlantic, but not much.  I believe my friend who used to manage that data for Vail said 12%


----------



## NYDB (Mar 23, 2022)

machski said:


> Flash to NH and I think Vail isn't as concerned.  Sure, many folks base out of the NH resorts that have run poorly this season.  But their VT properties have run at a more normal level and that gives options in this region.  Given the breadth of options, I don't see Vail playing the same make up game they are in the PNW.



Don't forget Huntah.  They seemed to have fucked that up quite a bit from what I have read this year.  They have to fix that shitshow up too.  Probably a higher priority than NH as well


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 23, 2022)

All things being equal I'd like to get an Ikon pass. I'd love to get some time at the Loaf and Sunday River. But as a veteran the discount on the Epic pass is hard to turn down. An Epic pass for myself and my son is half of what the Icon Base pass would cost me. I'll probably reluctantly renew the Epic. It's too bad Ikon doesn't match the same discounts Epic offers.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2022)

its a good thing that ikon doesnt offer the discounts that epic does. that's the whole reason why its a better product delivering a better experience to their customers.

vail does provide a ridiculously cheap pass for veterans, but its a part of what degrades the quality of the skiing. but its so cheap that if i were you i'd just get both.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 23, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> its a good thing that ikon doesnt offer the discounts that epic does. that's the whole reason why its a better product delivering a better experience to their customers.
> 
> vail does provide a ridiculously cheap pass for veterans, but its a part of what degrades the quality of the skiing. but its so cheap that if i were you i'd just get both.


There are different levels of veteran discounts. Retired and active military get the dirt cheap pass. Those of us who didn't put 20 full years in get a higher rate. $480 this year that's actually close to $100 cheaper than last season. Dependent pass is $270ish. That's high enough that I won't get two passes. I'm not able to ski enough to make two passes worth it right now. I am also have to get Wachusett and Ski Ward (for my sons racing) passes.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2022)

ah, i thought everyone was like $200


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## deadheadskier (Mar 23, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> There are different levels of veteran discounts. Retired and active military get the dirt cheap pass. Those of us who didn't put 20 full years in get a higher rate. $480 this year that's actually close to $100 cheaper than last season. Dependent pass is $270ish. That's high enough that I won't get two passes. I'm not able to ski enough to make two passes worth it right now. I am also have to get Wachusett and Ski Ward (for my sons racing) passes.



what about Indy if you don't feel you'll get a ton of days in?  Sub out Saddleback and Jay for Sugarloaf and SR?

Would be less expensive than Veterans Epic.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 25, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> what about Indy if you don't feel you'll get a ton of days in?  Sub out Saddleback and Jay for Sugarloaf and SR?
> 
> Would be less expensive than Veterans Epic.


The hope is to go out West too and Indy is really weak in CO and Utah, though Powder Mountain is pretty sweet. The price is close to even with Epic veteran since my son is 15 and would have to get an adult Indy pass for him. (I'd want Indy+ since I've gotta follow the usual vacation dates since he's still in school). Still weighing options.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 25, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> The hope is to go out West too and Indy is really weak in CO and Utah, though Powder Mountain is pretty sweet. The price is close to even with Epic veteran since my son is 15 and would have to get an adult Indy pass for him. (I'd want Indy+ since I've gotta follow the usual vacation dates since he's still in school). Still weighing options.




why do you need to go to colorado and utah? colorado and utah are super overrated ski destinations mobbed with people. the indy pass is so strong in washington idaho and montana and you'll deal with a fraction of the crowding, traffic, and other bullshit that comes with colorado and utah

also, powder mountain + beaver mountain is a fine 4 day trip in utah. 6 ski days if you use the 3rd day 25% off indy situation.


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## jaytrem (Mar 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> why do you need to go to colorado and utah? colorado and utah are super overrated ski destinations mobbed with people. the indy pass is so strong in washington idaho and montana and you'll deal with a fraction of the crowding, traffic, and other bullshit that comes with colorado and utah
> 
> also, powder mountain + beaver mountain is a fine 4 day trip in utah. 6 ski days if you use the 3rd day 25% off indy situation.


You're crazy.  Colorado and Utah are the only proper choices.  WA/ID/MT all suck!  ;-)


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> why do you need to go to colorado and utah? colorado and utah are super overrated ski destinations mobbed with people. the indy pass is so strong in washington idaho and montana and you'll deal with a fraction of the crowding, traffic, and other bullshit that comes with colorado and utah
> 
> also, powder mountain + beaver mountain is a fine 4 day trip in utah. 6 ski days if you use the 3rd day 25% off indy situation.



Overrated is debatable, but yeah can be crowded. But the only time I've really experienced lines out west was getting trapped at the bottom of the bowls at Vail.

Other factor is having a friend with a condo at Vail thus free lodging.


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## snoseek (Mar 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> why do you need to go to colorado and utah? colorado and utah are super overrated ski destinations mobbed with people. the indy pass is so strong in washington idaho and montana and you'll deal with a fraction of the crowding, traffic, and other bullshit that comes with colorado and utah
> 
> also, powder mountain + beaver mountain is a fine 4 day trip in utah. 6 ski days if you use the 3rd day 25% off indy situation.


I like to do the last minute thing and do wish indy was a bit more geographically spread out there but you're right powmow and beaver make for a great trip. I do like the sunlight addition as well that place is fantastic, one more decent area in Colorado would be ideal..like maybe Loveland or purgatory. 

Also epic is super weak outside of Colorado and tahoe out there.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> Other factor is having a friend with a condo at Vail thus free lodging.


Can‘t beat free.  Same here. 

But frankly, I wouldn’t bother with that part of Colorado had it not for the free lodging. It’s crowded, everything is overpriced (food, for example). Trying to ski at a different mountain? You’re in for potential traffic hang up, buses or paid parking (or all three!)

When it snows, it’s great! But then, doesn’t everywhere else? I’m so over the skiing the big name resorts now. If I’m going on a vacation, I don’t want to deal with crowds and traffics.


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 26, 2022)

Burlington flies direct to Denver...have to try this out sometime...


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## thetrailboss (Mar 26, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Burlington flies direct to Denver...have to try this out sometime...


I just saw that.  Interesting.


----------



## machski (Mar 27, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Burlington flies direct to Denver...have to try this out sometime...


Looks like Frontier and as such, just twice/weekly.  Departs DEN just before noon and departs BTV around 6pm.  Just Mon and Fri.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 27, 2022)

Seems perfect.  Great for a quick hit weekend or a full week


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 27, 2022)

Havent skied CO much...those pics of i70 look...bad. 
Want try Telluride..meet the guy who made my skis..


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## ThatGuy (Mar 27, 2022)

Silverton is #1 for me to visit in Colorado


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 27, 2022)

Not sure if i can still hike at that altitude


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## Smellytele (Mar 27, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Havent skied CO much...those pics of i70 look...bad.
> Want try Telluride..meet the guy who made my skis..


Just weekends


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## machski (Mar 27, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Not sure if i can still hike at that altitude


They have Heli option too beyond the double.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 27, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Silverton is #1 for me to visit in Colorado


Silverton is a really cool town.  Hopefully when you go the roads are not bad.  Colorado's "Million Dollar Highway" from Ouray to Silverton is a beast.  









						Keep Your Hands on the Wheel and Don't Look Down
					

The most perilous road in America gets 300 inches of snow a year, features 70 named avalanche paths, and has almost no guardrails. Who would be crazy enough to keep Colorado's infamous Highway 550 clear in winter? Leath Tonino hopped into the cab of a Mack snowplow truck to find out.




					www.outsideonline.com


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## thetrailboss (Mar 27, 2022)

machski said:


> Looks like Frontier and as such, just twice/weekly.  Departs DEN just before noon and departs BTV around 6pm.  Just Mon and Fri.


Check United.  I saw direct flights with them.


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## Kingslug20 (Mar 27, 2022)

Hoping to do a heli day at Whistler next year.
Maybe hit CO as well..but uts tough to beat JH..my go to place these days.


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## Zand (Mar 27, 2022)

Sticking with the Ikon/Indy plan next year. Definitely got burned on both of them this year, but can't be any worse. Feel like I'll be more motivated next winter to get lots of days in.


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## machski (Mar 27, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Check United.  I saw direct flights with them.


If United does, they aren't flying any this coming week.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 28, 2022)

i actually got a 2 year flashback reminder on facebook about my trip to silverton this morning. 

seriously incredible place. highly recommended to anyone with the chops and the lungs. its a wasted trip if you arent ready to hike and ski serious terrain.

here's my post from 2 years ago after the trip. lots of pics. we only had middling snow but it was still an amazing trip. one of my favorites ever.






						seriously, go to silverton
					

was going to post this in trip reports but decided that this board doesnt get the traffic to warrant sub-boards...  general thoughts - if you like steep skiing and mandatory hiking in the most no frills atmosphere possible, go to silverton. its really an amazing and unique place. i was a bit...




					forums.alpinezone.com


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2022)

If United does, they aren't flying any this coming week.


machski said:


> If United does, they aren't flying any this coming week.


Ah, OK.  I was looking at flights in June and July.


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## Zand (Mar 28, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> If United does, they aren't flying any this coming week.
> 
> Ah, OK.  I was looking at flights in June and July.


Looks like Denver is winter seasonal from Burlington. Usually those go from December to March based on the flights from Boston to Steamboat, Bozeman, Jackson, etc.


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## Smellytele (Mar 28, 2022)

Then why are there June and July flights???


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 28, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Silverton is a really cool town.  Hopefully when you go the roads are not bad.  Colorado's "Million Dollar Highway" from Ouray to Silverton is a beast.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this is a great read. that road scared the balls off of me. i drove to silverton in daylight, met my friends there, so was solo. i left silverton to catch an early morning flight out of montrose in snow and darkness. terrifying drive.


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## jaytrem (Mar 28, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this is a great read. that road scared the balls off of me. i drove to silverton in daylight, met my friends there, so was solo. i left silverton to catch an early morning flight out of montrose in snow and darkness. terrifying drive.


I missed out on that drive.  Road was closed so we had to drive all zee way around.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 28, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Then why are there June and July flights???


Here is what I found.  There are direct flights to and from BTV and DEN:  

Salt Lake City to Burlington​Jul 2Saturday, July 25:32 am to 4:02 pm1 stop
Duration: 8h 30m8 hours30 minutes
Travelers: 1
Includes Travel Operated By Skywest dba United Express
Flight connection list
Connection 1 of 2
Salt Lake City to Denver​Jul 2Saturday, July 25:32 am to 7:01 am
Duration: 1h 29m1 hour29 minutes
Flight Number: UA 5340
Aircraft type: Canadair Regional Jet 700
Operated By Skywest dba United Express

Denver to Burlington​Jul 2Saturday, July 210:22 am to 4:02 pm
Duration: 3h 40m3 hours40 minutes
Flight Number: UA 1863
Aircraft type: Airbus A319

Burlington to Salt Lake City​Jul 9Saturday, July 93:30 pm to 8:23 pm1 stop
Duration: 6h 53m6 hours53 minutes
Travelers: 1
Includes Travel Operated By Skywest dba United Express
Flight connection list
Connection 1 of 2
Burlington to Denver​Jul 9Saturday, July 93:30 pm to 5:45 pm
Duration: 4h 15m4 hours15 minutes
Flight Number: UA 1136
Aircraft type: Airbus A319

Denver to Salt Lake City​Jul 9Saturday, July 96:50 pm to 8:23 pm
Duration: 1h 33m1 hour33 minutes
Flight Number: UA 5335
Aircraft type: Embraer 175
Operated By Skywest dba United Express


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## machski (Mar 28, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Then why are there June and July flights???


Betting United is serving that route for summer travel to Vermont.  I do not think they fly it in the winter.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 29, 2022)

sorry, i'm too lazy to look - i just did a cursory search but didn't dig deep - do i have any deadlines i need to be aware of for price increases or expiration of renewal benefits, for ikon and indy? i think indy raises may 17. i don't think ikon raises and i also don't think my renewal expires. but curious to confirm as end of march approaches


edit - nevermind, just got an email from indy. april 1. buying now.

edit2 - April 1 deadline seems to be for the payment plan. not the overall price or the renewal discount.


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## Smellytele (Mar 29, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> sorry, i'm too lazy to look - i just did a cursory search but didn't dig deep - do i have any deadlines i need to be aware of for price increases or expiration of renewal benefits, for ikon and indy? i think indy raises may 17. i don't think ikon raises and i also don't think my renewal expires. but curious to confirm as end of march approaches
> 
> 
> edit - nevermind, just got an email from indy. april 1. buying now.
> ...


Isn’t 4/1 the cutoff for the spring Indy pass.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 29, 2022)

not sure about spring pass. inapplicable to me. but today's email has this:


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## chuckstah (Mar 29, 2022)

$50 off Spring Indy, so $139 I think. April first is the cutoff


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## Dickc (Mar 29, 2022)

Well, could not resist.  I just bought an Indy Add on pass 22/23 to go with my Pats Peak pass.  Its a steal at $189.00 for an adult.  Just sent them a PDF of my 22-23 Pats pass for verification, and now I can go to a bunch of other places this winter for DIRT CHEAP.

Edit to add that Indy has replied to my email, and I'm good to go for the pass.  That was FAST!!! Kudos to Indy for promptness!


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## Teleskier (Mar 30, 2022)

It is very tempting! Don't forget the extra $20-off coming over from EPIC/IKON as well.


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## Zermatt (Apr 8, 2022)

FYI. Renewal discounts for Ikon end 4/22. This is much earlier than the last two seasons. Don't miss out.


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## abc (Apr 10, 2022)

Teleskier said:


> It is very tempting! Don't forget the extra $20-off coming over from EPIC/IKON as well.


??


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## Mum skier (Apr 10, 2022)

abc said:


> ??


Yes, good question, are the Indy reductions addictive. Can you can the reduction for the “ Prior Epic and Ikon pass holders” as well as “add on pass pricing”. I suspect not.


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## machski (Apr 11, 2022)

Mum skier said:


> Yes, good question, are the Indy reductions addictive. Can you can the reduction for the “ Prior Epic and Ikon pass holders” as well as “add on pass pricing”. I suspect not.


No, Epic/Ikon/MC discount only comes off an Indy or Indy+ pass purchase.  Doesn't work for the add ons where available.


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## Edd (Apr 17, 2022)

I wish Ikon had a weekdays only option that was cheaper. $700 feels heavy when everything is 2.5 plus hours away and I have to buy another pass for easy day trips.


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## gladerider (Apr 19, 2022)

just pulled trigger on ikon renewal. discounts end this Friday, 4/22


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 19, 2022)

Anyone remember how much Ikon went up last year after the early period?


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## zyk (Apr 19, 2022)

Edd said:


> I wish Ikon had a weekdays only option that was cheaper. $700 feels heavy when everything is 2.5 plus hours away and I have to buy another pass for easy day trips.


The lack of a midweek only option is the primary reason why I didn't go with Ikon.


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## gmcunni (Apr 20, 2022)

Epic Local X2 renewed for me and daughter.   Going to Breck this weekend for likely last day of season.


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## meff (Apr 21, 2022)

Epic local, Ikon base and Bromley pass here. 

Epic to cover the 10 day Vail trip
Ikon for early and late season options.  We'll see how it goes.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 21, 2022)

full ikon purchased


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## ss20 (Apr 21, 2022)

Pulled trigger on Ikon base.  Already going to use it to go to Winter Park for 2 days next week.  Not sure where it'll take me next year.  Hopefully one big trip post-season  to Tahoe and daytrips to Solitude and Brighton.  And of course spring days at Snowbird.  Skiing Alta 130 days+ next season probably won't suck so bad either


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## gmcunni (Apr 21, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Pulled trigger on Ikon base.  Already going to use it to go to Winter Park for 2 days next week.  Not sure where it'll take me next year.  Hopefully one big trip post-season  to Tahoe and daytrips to Solitude and Brighton.  And of course spring days at Snowbird.  Skiing Alta 130 days+ next season probably won't suck so bad either


you don't get comp'd when traveling to other mountains?  i thought that was a thing for instructors and other mountain employees.


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## ss20 (Apr 22, 2022)

gmcunni said:


> you don't get comp'd when traveling to other mountains?  i thought that was a thing for instructors and other mountain employees.



It is not nearly as good here as the benefits out east.  Back there I could ski for free at a good number of places or get tickets in the $30-$60 range.  Here a lot of places are 50% off if they offer anything... and 50% off a $150-$200 ticket at the destination places.... not worth it.


----------



## urungus (Apr 22, 2022)

Switched from full Epic to full Ikon.  Will miss Stowe and the closeness of Mt Snow next year, but couldn’t bring myself to support Vail after this year.


----------



## parahelia (Apr 22, 2022)

We initially bought gold New England Passes but we just pulled the trigger to upgrade to platinum (which includes Ikon base).  I'm on sabbatical next spring and we'll finally be able to ski out west with the kids (no vacation week mismatch).  In a way, it's probably good that we had to wait until this upcoming year to bring them west - they are fantastic skiers now and we'll be able to go almost anywhere on the mountain.  Now I just have to convince the fam to leave me in the northern Rockies when they head home at the end of February break...


----------



## machski (Apr 22, 2022)

parahelia said:


> We initially bought gold New England Passes but we just pulled the trigger to upgrade to platinum (which includes Ikon base).  I'm on sabbatical next spring and we'll finally be able to ski out west with the kids (no vacation week mismatch).  In a way, it's probably good that we had to wait until this upcoming year to bring them west - they are fantastic skiers now and we'll be able to go almost anywhere on the mountain.  Now I just have to convince the fam to leave me in the northern Rockies when they head home at the end of February break...


Depends where and when you want to ski on the Ikon, but I've come around to the thinking the Platinum isn't worth it since so many areas our west have bailed off the Ikon Base.  When we go back to Ikon after next season, we will likely do full Ikons paired with a NEP Silver.  We recover 7 of the 12 blackouts at SR with the full Ikon plus have access to ALL Ikon resorts for basically the same $$.  And if we need those other 5 blackout days (rare given my work schedule), we can go SL or Loon for the balance.


----------



## jimk (Apr 22, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Pulled trigger on Ikon base.  Already going to use it to go to Winter Park for 2 days next week.  Not sure where it'll take me next year.  Hopefully one big trip post-season  to Tahoe and daytrips to Solitude and Brighton.  And of course spring days at Snowbird.  Skiing Alta 130 days+ next season probably won't suck so bad either


Sounds like you're in UT to stay for a while.  Glad it worked out for you.  My son (part time PSIA L3 at Snowbird) also usually pays for additional skiing, either Alta-Bird upgrade (this year) or some form of IKON (previous years).  It's hard to resist the opportunity to sample numerous other fine resorts so close by.  

I've been getting a Snowbird senior pass the last few years.  For 2021-22 Snowbird offered a nicely discounted IKON base pass add-on to their season pass holders that I purchased for something like $270.  Used that pass 20 days so far including four days at Mammoth last weekend (great mtn).  Will probably go with my same pass combo next year.  Only downer is that this special IKON base pass doesn't allow any days at Alta, so I only get one free day there through a benefit with my Snowbird pass


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Apr 22, 2022)

jimk said:


> Sounds like you're in UT to stay for a while.  Glad it worked out for you.  My son (part time PSIA L3 at Snowbird) also usually pays for additional skiing, either Alta-Bird upgrade (this year) or some form of IKON (previous years).  It's hard to resist the opportunity to sample numerous other fine resorts so close by.
> 
> I've been getting a Snowbird senior pass the last few years.  For 2021-22 Snowbird offered a nicely discounted IKON base pass add-on to their season pass holders that I purchased for something like $270.  Used that pass 20 days so far including four days at Mammoth last weekend (great mtn).  Will probably go with my same pass combo next year.  Only downer is that this special IKON base pass doesn't allow any days at Alta, so I only get one free day there through a benefit with my Snowbird pass



yea i opted for the full pass and have specific targets set on alta, snowbasin, jackson, and sun valley


----------



## parahelia (Apr 22, 2022)

machski said:


> Depends where and when you want to ski on the Ikon, but I've come around to the thinking the Platinum isn't worth it since so many areas our west have bailed off the Ikon Base.  When we go back to Ikon after next season, we will likely do full Ikons paired with a NEP Silver.  We recover 7 of the 12 blackouts at SR with the full Ikon plus have access to ALL Ikon resorts for basically the same $$.  And if we need those other 5 blackout days (rare given my work schedule), we can go SL or Loon for the balance.


Yeah, I'm not sure how it will work out in practice.  My hope is that with 3 days at Big Sky/Brighton from the gold pass + 5 days from the Ikon base, there will be some options to work around blackout dates no matter who is getting snow that year.  At the very least, it's good insurance against paying walk-up prices for a family of 4 .  But I definitely want to do the math at next season's end and see if it actually worked out in our favor.


----------



## machski (Apr 22, 2022)

parahelia said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure how it will work out in practice.  My hope is that with 3 days at Big Sky/Brighton from the gold pass + 5 days from the Ikon base, there will be some options to work around blackout dates no matter who is getting snow that year.  At the very least, it's good insurance against paying walk-up prices for a family of 4 .  But I definitely want to do the math at next season's end and see if it actually worked out in our favor.


Just don't forget to reserve you Ikon days at Brighton/BS ahead of time as that is a thing next year.  Not sure if the Boyne pass 3 days needs similar or not.


----------



## jimk (Apr 22, 2022)

machski said:


> Just don't forget to reserve you Ikon days at Brighton/BS ahead of time as that is a thing next year.  Not sure if the Boyne pass 3 days needs similar or not.


Yeah, I'm also bummed that Deer Valley is dropping off the base IKON, not that it's my top UT resort.  Just nice to have for bailout in the event of closure of LCC on big storm days.  Also, I have friends I like to join there sometimes.  It being premium now will steer more locals to base pass mtns such as Snowbird, Brighton, and Solitude, all three I prefer over DV.


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## JimG. (Apr 24, 2022)

Going with the NYS 3 in 1 again next season.

Debating getting a Plattekill pass again or saving that money and getting the Killington 365 pass instead of the K midweek. Getting the IKON base pass with the 365 is pulling me in that direction. It'd be nice to ski Sugarbush again.


----------



## ThatGuy (Apr 24, 2022)

I’d spring for the Killi 365. Pay for a couple days at Platty when the snows right.


----------



## ThatGuy (Apr 24, 2022)

Then you also have Windham as an option close by to you.


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## JimG. (Apr 24, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> I’d spring for the Killi 365. Pay for a couple days at Platty when the snows right.


Exactly my line of thinking.


----------



## p_levert (Apr 24, 2022)

With the latest Ikon price increase, the Ikon base is now more expensive ($869) then the full Epic ($841). Like wow!  Ikon has also removed the renewal discount going forward.  And, of course, Ikon base no longer includes Alta.  Alterra must be pretty confident in their product because they are much more expensive than Epic.


----------



## slatham (Apr 24, 2022)

p_levert said:


> With the latest Ikon price increase, the Ikon base is now more expensive ($869) then the full Epic ($841). Like wow!  Ikon has also removed the renewal discount going forward.  And, of course, Ikon base no longer includes Alta.  Alterra must be pretty confident in their product because they are much more expensive than Epic.


Early season base was $769, and this year at least they had a $50 renewal discount so $719. I guess maybe now its $869?

While my motivation for an Ikon pass is family near Taos and Sugarbush, I have really enjoyed having Stratton and 5 days of Killington on it, especially this spring. And I ended up using - and really enjoying - a weekday at Windham LOL. But my general feeling is this past winter the  Northeast Ikon areas did better than their Epic competition, had less crowding, and arguably deserve a premium (especially if one likes spring skiing). We will have to see if that holds this winter as I suspect a meaningful shift to Ikon from Epic, and I have to think Vail will have more success running the NE areas this winter (though at some areas thats a pretty low bar).


----------



## Edd (Apr 24, 2022)

p_levert said:


> With the latest Ikon price increase, the Ikon base is now more expensive ($869) then the full Epic ($841). Like wow!  Ikon has also removed the renewal discount going forward.  And, of course, Ikon base no longer includes Alta.  Alterra must be pretty confident in their product because they are much more expensive than Epic.


After watching Vail's clown show this year, I'd be a confident competitor, also.


----------



## p_levert (Apr 24, 2022)

The Ikon session pass product also blows.  The rate goes from $110/day (4 day pass) to $135/day (2 day pass).  Pretty shitty deal for a pre-buy in April with holiday blackouts.

Don't get me wrong, Vail sucks big time.  But I am beginning to think that both Epic and Ikon are losing propositions.  Better to do a ski3 or Kmart or Indy or A-basin or Cooper, along with a few Epic day passes (for Stowe, of course).


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## Kingslug20 (Apr 25, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Going with the NYS 3 in 1 again next season.
> 
> Debating getting a Plattekill pass again or saving that money and getting the Killington 365 pass instead of the K midweek. Getting the IKON base pass with the 365 is pulling me in that direction. It'd be nice to ski Sugarbush again.


Go for it....I think youll get way more out of it.


----------



## eatskisleep (Apr 25, 2022)

machski said:


> They have Heli option too beyond the double.


And not from the mountain themselves, but there is local cat skiing too. On my list!


----------



## Mum skier (Apr 25, 2022)

p_levert said:


> With the latest Ikon price increase, the Ikon base is now more expensive ($869) then the full Epic ($841). Like wow!  Ikon has also removed the renewal discount going forward.  And, of course, Ikon base no longer includes Alta.  Alterra must be pretty confident in their product because they are much more expensive than Epic.



Ikon is cheaper for kids and there is a 100 further discount for a kids pass buying at the same time as an adult pass.  So if you are adding kids they almost end up the same.

For a family of 4 with 2 kids under 12 I came up with the following
Epic Local 1902
Ikon Base 1936
New England Silver 2796
White Mountain Super pass 3360
Indy Switch (not Indy plus) 736

Despite all the Epic problems we will probably renew Epic and maybe add Indy. From Boston Epic options are just a bit closer for a day trip.  If Ikon would ever add an unlimited option closer to Boston we’d switch in a flash but 5 days at Loon (also crazy busy at weekend) isn’t really enough.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 25, 2022)

p_levert said:


> With the latest Ikon price increase, the Ikon base is now more expensive ($869) then the full Epic ($841). Like wow!  Ikon has also removed the renewal discount going forward.  And, of course, Ikon base no longer includes Alta.  Alterra must be pretty confident in their product because they are much more expensive than Epic.



thats the fucking point

enjoy your walmart skiing.


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## cdskier (Apr 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> thats the fucking point
> 
> enjoy your walmart skiing.



Agreed...Ikon has no reason to try to compete with Epic on pricing. Epic is way under-priced. Even Ikon is still probably priced a bit lower than it really should be...


----------



## p_levert (Apr 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> thats the fucking point
> 
> enjoy your walmart skiing.



Kusty, I have enjoyed your posts over the years, but in this case you have no idea what you're talking about.  This past season I purchased two Epic days and used them at Crested Butte and Stowe.  There's nothing Walmart about these places and I paid roughly $65/day.  And while Vail has messed up at Stowe, if you go during the week, it's pretty much the same as always, and still effin great.

But, yeah, I am ticked off at Ikon and I'm not renewing.  Too many price increases. I am certainly not buying a full Epic Pass either.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Apr 25, 2022)

you are fortunate to be able to ski mid-week and at less crowded locations (CB, not stowe). and the 'epic day pass' product you are talking about is fine if you need a relatively inexpensive any day ticket to a vail owned mountain. $65 per day or something to buy stowe days well in advance. fine and good if you can ski midweek.

if you cannot ski midweek, and you are on home-court in new england, epic is the very definition of walmart skiing. i don't need to re-hash the 300+ pages of vail sucks, but look at what they have done to the on-mountain and on-road crowding situation at nearly every northeast property

if you are fortunate enough to be able to ski mid-week non-holiday, more power to you. most people don't have that flexibility, and for those people - the overwhelming majority - epic pass is hot trash

if i was retired and getting my days m-f, i'd laugh at all the commotion. but as a dedicated weekend warrior for the foreseeable future, i hate what they are doing and have done


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 25, 2022)

Sticking with the Military Epic pass. Price is too good to pass up. Will also have a Wachusett pass for Night League. Not adding anything else. With my sons ski team schedule there's not a lot of opportunity for a lot of ski days in NH/VT.


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## Domeskier (Apr 25, 2022)

What’s with all the hostility to Walmart?


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## cdskier (Apr 25, 2022)

p_levert said:


> But, yeah, I am ticked off at Ikon and I'm not renewing.  Too many price increases. I am certainly not buying a full Epic Pass either.



Too many price increases? Not sure I understand that comment. The overall original early purchase price went up from last year (as did Epic and most other passes). And then after the first early cutoff date, it went up again (as pretty much all passes always have done in the past after the first deadline). Not really sure what is unique or surprising about Ikon here that is ticking you off at them.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 25, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> What’s with all the hostility to Walmart?



seriously, i apologize to walmart. no company should be compared to vail.


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## p_levert (Apr 25, 2022)

cdskier said:


> Too many price increases? Not sure I understand that comment. The overall original early purchase price went up from last year (as did Epic and most other passes). And then after the first early cutoff date, it went up again (as pretty much all passes always have done in the past after the first deadline). Not really sure what is unique or surprising about Ikon here that is ticking you off at them.



Ikon pass goes up about 7% per year.  Four years ago, you could use the base pass to go to Alta, Aspen, JH, but now you have to upgrade to base pass plus.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the renewal discount went away sooner this year.  So, yeah, at least with the base, the price has increased while offering less.  The base pass is becoming sort of irrelevant, I guess you just take the plunge and go full Ikon.  But I'm just not ready to pay $1K for a pass.  And it has to be said that the Ikon Session pass is crap.


----------



## ss20 (Apr 25, 2022)

p_levert said:


> Ikon pass goes up about 7% per year.  Four years ago, you could use the base pass to go to Alta, Aspen, JH, but now you have to upgrade to base pass plus.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the renewal discount went away sooner this year.  So, yeah, at least with the base, the price has increased while offering less.  The base pass is becoming sort of irrelevant, I guess you just take the plunge and go full Ikon.  But I'm just not ready to pay $1K for a pass.  And it has to be said that the Ikon Session pass is crap.



How quick people forget that 15 years ago a pass to any major mountain East or West was $900-$2,000....


----------



## cdskier (Apr 25, 2022)

p_levert said:


> Ikon pass goes up about 7% per year.  Four years ago, you could use the base pass to go to Alta, Aspen, JH, but now you have to upgrade to base pass plus.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the renewal discount went away sooner this year.  So, yeah, at least with the base, the price has increased while offering less.  The base pass is becoming sort of irrelevant, I guess you just take the plunge and go full Ikon.  But I'm just not ready to pay $1K for a pass.  And it has to be said that the Ikon Session pass is crap.


When Ikon was first released 4 years ago it had access to 23 resorts. Now it has access to 50 destinations. Even Sugarbush was only 5/7 days on the pass a few years ago before Alterra purchased them and it became unlimited. But all these additions don't justify a price increase? And moving premium resorts like Aspen, Alta, and JH to the new "plus" tier makes sense. Bottom line is the original price was too cheap and they're slowly correcting it. $1K for a pass that offers the amount of access that Ikon does is still ridiculous.



ss20 said:


> How quick people forget that 15 years ago a pass to any major mountain East or West was $900-$2,000....



Exactly...I'm still paying less now for Ikon than I did for a Sugarbush only pass just a few years ago. And I thought the Sugarbush pass was fairly priced at the time.


----------



## ss20 (Apr 25, 2022)

cdskier said:


> When Ikon was first released 4 years ago it had access to 23 resorts. Now it has access to 50 destinations. Even Sugarbush was only 5/7 days on the pass a few years ago before Alterra purchased them and it became unlimited. But all these additions don't justify a price increase? And moving premium resorts like Aspen, Alta, and JH to the new "plus" tier makes sense. Bottom line is the original price was too cheap and they're slowly correcting it. $1K for a pass that offers the amount of access that Ikon does is still ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...I'm still paying less now for Ikon than I did for a Sugarbush only pass just a few years ago. And I thought the Sugarbush pass was fairly priced at the time.



And the premium resorts that are all now off the base are charging WELL over $1,000 for a season pass to their individual mountains.

People also forget that Epic pass mountains are almost all Vail-owned.  Alterra owns very few of the resorts on Ikon.  They have to cater to all the parties involved... if the option is "lose 10 destination resorts" or "increase the price of the pass".... they're gonna increase the price.  

Also when Ikon started there were blurred lines between them and Vail.  They were similar products.  Now Ikon and Vail are totally differentiated.  I think Ikon/Alterra wants to avoid any kind of extreme overcrowding and poor product seen at Vail resorts at all costs.


----------



## zyk (Apr 25, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Going with the NYS 3 in 1 again next season.
> 
> Debating getting a Plattekill pass again or saving that money and getting the Killington 365 pass instead of the K midweek. Getting the IKON base pass with the 365 is pulling me in that direction. It'd be nice to ski Sugarbush again.


Same here but maybe gore midweek only.  Haven't skied a weekend in more years than I have fingers and toes.  Maybe a Plattekill value card if they still offer that.  Could add a Killington spring pass but gore is going late this season.  Hopefully a sign of things to come.


----------



## abc (Apr 26, 2022)

cdskier said:


> When Ikon was first released 4 years ago it had access to 23 resorts. Now it has access to 50 destinations. Even Sugarbush was only 5/7 days on the pass a few years ago before Alterra purchased them and it became unlimited. But all these additions don't justify a price increase?


Not if you're still only skiing a few of the "original" 23 resorts.

Just saying... Why must I pay more for *other people'*s wider choice? I just want to ski a lot of days in a few limited mountains.


----------



## machski (Apr 27, 2022)

p_levert said:


> Ikon pass goes up about 7% per year.  Four years ago, you could use the base pass to go to Alta, Aspen, JH, but now you have to upgrade to base pass plus.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like the renewal discount went away sooner this year.  So, yeah, at least with the base, the price has increased while offering less.  The base pass is becoming sort of irrelevant, I guess you just take the plunge and go full Ikon.  But I'm just not ready to pay $1K for a pass.  And it has to be said that the Ikon Session pass is crap.


You need to remember that the Ikon pass has many more "partner" resorts that are not owned by the pass company than Epic.  And actually, Ikon has been gaining partners as Epic has lost them (A-Basin first and now Sun Valley and Snowbasin.  All of which are now Ikon partners in some fashion).  Altera is driving some of its own areas off the base to base +, but most of those you noted are partner resorts trying to meter their own area's guest experiences.  Vail owns every IS area on it's pass now except Telluride and honestly doesn't seem to care about guest experiences as much.  Telluride is quite restricted on the lesser Epic products.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 27, 2022)

machski said:


> You need to remember that the Ikon pass has many more "partner" resorts that are not owned by the pass company than Epic.  And actually, Ikon has been gaining partners as Epic has lost them (A-Basin first and now Sun Valley and Snowbasin.  All of which are now Ikon partners in some fashion).  Altera is driving some of its own areas off the base to base +, but most of those you noted are partner resorts trying to meter their own area's guest experiences.  Vail owns every IS area on it's pass now except Telluride and honestly doesn't seem to care about guest experiences as much.  Telluride is quite restricted on the lesser Epic products.


epic also partners with resorts of the canadian rockies (fernie, kicking horse, etc). but yep, spot on


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 27, 2022)

machski said:


> Telluride is quite restricted on the lesser Epic products.


Telluride is only available on the Full Epic and its not unlimited.


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## machski (Apr 28, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Telluride is only available on the Full Epic and its not unlimited.


Yes, and I think you have to have a 5 day or more Epic Day Pass to access as well.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 28, 2022)

i dont like starting new threads, so im gonna call this ikon pass related.

winter park major expansion including surface lift to the cirque and gondola from town to base

new acreage would make it 3rd largest ski area in co behind vail and steamboat. so ikon has two of the three largest. 









						Winter Park Resort, CO, Shares Masterplan to Become Colorado's 3rd Largest Resort - SnowBrains
					

Winter Park Resort, CO, just unveiled its 10-15 year masterplan for the future of the ski resort. The document available to the public




					snowbrains.com


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## abc (Apr 28, 2022)

Steamboat the 2nd largest in Colorado? Who would have thought.


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## Vortex (Apr 28, 2022)

I buy the Boyne Platinum so I get the Ikon base, for access  to Steamboat and Copper


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## thebigo (Apr 28, 2022)

This final weekend of April, the ikon passholder has three options, offering six lifts. The epic passholder has zero options.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 28, 2022)

thebigo said:


> This final weekend of April, the ikon passholder has three options, offering six lifts. The epic passholder has zero options.


Assuming that said passholder has days left at two of those three (though SB is not a bad option at all). 

And Vail has never been about the late season.


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## abc (Apr 29, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Vail has never been about the late season.


Perhaps Vail has never been about skiing? 

Perhaps it's all about Disney on snow? 

(actually, I have no problem with that. I like Disney. Had an annual pass the year I lived in Florida)


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## deadheadskier (Apr 29, 2022)

Actually I was at a water park in Florida on Monday and it very much reminded me of Vail operations.  Half the slides were closed with no obvious advertisement of such on the way in nor reduction in price. Food service was understaffed, slow, barely edible and ski area priced. It cost $44 for 2 lunch combos with soft drinks.

I'm in no hurry to return there just like I'm in no hurry to give Vail my business again


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## thetrailboss (Apr 29, 2022)

abc said:


> Perhaps Vail has never been about skiing?
> 
> Perhaps it's all about Disney on snow?
> 
> (actually, I have no problem with that. I like Disney. Had an annual pass the year I lived in Florida)


Vail, like other publicly traded companies, are about shareholder return.  That's it.  And in a tough business that means skimping on a lot of things to make those "Wall Street expectations".


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## abc (Apr 29, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Vail, like other publicly traded companies, are about shareholder return.  That's it.  And in a tough business that means skimping on a lot of things to make those "Wall Street expectations".


Yet, for Vail, "Wall Street" didn't respond too kindly on those report of poor customer experience.


----------



## jaytrem (Apr 29, 2022)

Big Snow indoor skiing is selling a pass that's good from their Memorial Day weekend reopening until Sept 30th.  Price is $749.99.  Kinda crazy for 4 months.  But I guess if you enjoy the terrain park you can get your money's worth.  I have a couple tickets left on our 6-packs, might pick up another at some point.

Also trying to decide what to do for the kids.  They're in 5th grade next year, so lots of "free with admin fee' stuff is available for them.  Might skip the Indy Pass for them.  They already have Epic, we're somewhat of a Mount Snow captive audience.  North Face doesn't ever seem to have lines anymore, so it's not a terrible situation there.


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## JimG. (Jul 15, 2022)

Bump.

Decided on a Killington 365 pass this season I think it's a great deal with the included Ikon base pass. Will likely go with a Belleayre only pass this season for close to home skiing.

Decided back in May to forego the Plattekill pass this season to help pay for the 365. Scotty sent me a link today reporting that the control shack for the double suffered a lightning strike and burned down. Hope Platty can get that lift up and running for the coming season. That's a brutal hit.

Scotty says hello to everyone.


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## thebigo (Jul 15, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Bump.
> 
> Decided on a Killington 365 pass this season I think it's a great deal with the included Ikon base pass. Will likely go with a Belleayre only pass this season for close to home skiing.
> 
> ...


Never met scotty but always enjoyed his posts, hope he is doing well. 

K was open somewhere around 6+ weekends more than anyone else in the east last year, massive differentiator. Local pass plus K and Ikon should be a good season. 

K would be a perfect second pass for us if they offered a product similar to boyne bronze. K and SR are both two hours for us. Problem for a family of four is the $1,000 base K pass, works out to the same price point as boyne bronze with K spring.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2022)

machski said:


> Look out, must be those Evil Epic and Ikon passes driving folks to other options.


….or it is marketing B.S. as there’s no way for anyone to verify this.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 19, 2022)

LOL where did you quote this from?  I was trying to find the post(s) to get some frame of reference and I didn't find it.  I only went back to page 6 because I didn't care that much


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## djd66 (Jul 19, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> LOL where did you quote this from?  I was trying to find the post(s) to get some frame of reference and I didn't find it.  I only went back to page 6 because I didn't care that much


Page 1, #16.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 19, 2022)

thanks for helping my lazy ass!  

loop closed on my end  and I agree with TB


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> LOL where did you quote this from?  I was trying to find the post(s) to get some frame of reference and I didn't find it.  I only went back to page 6 because I didn't care that much


It was a post from like March.  It was in reference to Pow Mow saying they have had a rush on passes and, "golly, gee we need to put a hold to sales because we have so much demand."  I'm skeptical.


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## PAabe (Jul 25, 2022)

So I got a letter from ORDA saying frequent skier card renewals are discounted but they dont seem to have the rates listed anywhere - maybe not yet published? Deadline for the season pass discount rate is mid august but maybe that doesn't apply to the frequent skier cards


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## MadPadraic (Jul 29, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Assuming that said passholder has days left at two of those three (though SB is not a bad option at all).
> 
> And Vail has never been about the late season.


I remember Breck going pretty darn late, and even re-opening after a late spring blizzard.


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## machski (Jul 29, 2022)

MadPadraic said:


> I remember Breck going pretty darn late, and even re-opening after a late spring blizzard.


Only after A-Basin jumped ship off the Epic.  And this season, Breck didn't make their planned late May close, they closed two weeks early due to lack of snow.  The following weekend the town got 18 inches alone, mountain got more.  Sorry, Vail totally isn't into the late game.  They'll throw the CO front range crowd a bone when they don't have to do much.  But any effort to keep late season going, they bow out.


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## snoseek (Sep 2, 2022)

I'm in strafford County now and a pretty chill drive to gunstock so ot looks like I'll carry gunstock midweek and cannon but Jesus is gunstock an expensive pass!


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## Edd (Sep 2, 2022)

snoseek said:


> I'm in strafford County now and a pretty chill drive to gunstock so ot looks like I'll carry gunstock midweek and cannon but Jesus is gunstock an expensive pass!


It’s amazing how locked in their customer base is, especially considering they share a pass with no other mountains and, since COVID, they’ve limited day tickets to the point where the drop in crowding on weekends was noticeable; the bar for weekends they used was to not have to shuttle customers from remote lots anymore, even holidays. When busy, it’s employees who park remotely and get shuttled.

And, with those high pass prices, they make more $ than before COVID. Can‘t think of another New England mountain that operates so independently with good profits. Maybe Smuggs, but there’s a lot I don’t know about their operation.


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## snoseek (Sep 2, 2022)

Edd said:


> It’s amazing how locked in their customer base is, especially considering they share a pass with no other mountains and, since COVID, they’ve limited day tickets to the point where the drop in crowding on weekends was noticeable; the bar for weekends they used was to not have to shuttle customers from remote lots anymore, even holidays. When busy, it’s employees who park remotely and get shuttled.
> 
> And, with those high pass prices, they make more $ than before COVID. Can‘t think of another New England mountain that operates so independently with good profits. Maybe Smuggs, but there’s a lot I don’t know about their operation.


I was gonna go all in on a full pass but it looks like with a midweek I could get half off tickets anyway. Not sure what I'll be doing for work over the winter yet so not really sure what days I'll be skiing but I assume midweek. Good to know they've got the shitshow under control. It used to get packed there on weekends


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## Zand (Sep 2, 2022)

Edd said:


> It’s amazing how locked in their customer base is, especially considering they share a pass with no other mountains and, since COVID, they’ve limited day tickets to the point where the drop in crowding on weekends was noticeable; the bar for weekends they used was to not have to shuttle customers from remote lots anymore, even holidays. When busy, it’s employees who park remotely and get shuttled.
> 
> And, with those high pass prices, they make more $ than before COVID. Can‘t think of another New England mountain that operates so independently with good profits. Maybe Smuggs, but there’s a lot I don’t know about their operation.


I've heard more than a few times over the years that Wachusett has had a few years where they were the most profitable independent ski area in America. These days they dont seem to quite get the crowds they did 20 years ago though.

I've never been, but Gunstock seems like a pretty similar operation overall.


----------



## Edd (Sep 2, 2022)

Zand said:


> I've heard more than a few times over the years that Wachusett has had a few years where they were the most profitable independent ski area in America. These days they dont seem to quite get the crowds they did 20 years ago though.
> 
> I've never been, but Gunstock seems like a pretty similar operation overall.


Good call on Wachusett, that hadn’t occurred to me. I’ve never been there.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 2, 2022)

no one wanted to talk about panorama in the ikon thread, so i will say again that ikon added panorama bc yesterday. i am intrigued and am considering revamping my February trip and steering to louise/revelstoke/panorama. i dunno tho.


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## machski (Sep 2, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> no one wanted to talk about panorama in the ikon thread, so i will say again that ikon added panorama bc yesterday. i am intrigued and am considering revamping my February trip and steering to louise/revelstoke/panorama. i dunno tho.


Panorama is intriguing, considered a trip there years ago.  But it doesn't get a ton of snow, probably retains what does fall well given it's Northern Latitude.  Also a bit of a pain lift-wise to move around that massive an area.  But being in-between several other areas on the pass, makes for an interesting trip you can string together for sure!


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## jimk (Sep 2, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> no one wanted to talk about panorama in the ikon thread, so i will say again that ikon added panorama bc yesterday. i am intrigued and am considering revamping my February trip and steering to louise/revelstoke/panorama. i dunno tho.


That would probably be a fine trip (probably flying in/out of Calgary) especially if you get reasonably decent conditions.  Don't know Panorama, but I'm sure it would be fun for a couple of days.

My two cents on Revy, I have only skied Revy for two consecutive days in mid-March 2018, take with grain of salt.

The good:  the slopes and base village were empty during my visit, conditions were excellent on the upper mtn Stoke and Ripper chairs and we skied in 6-8" new snow on the second day.  The motel we stayed at in town of Revy also seemed about half empty in mid-March with more snowmobilers than skiers.  I thought the tree skiing was very good at Revy. The easily accessed trees adjacent to the Stoke and Rippers had some nice spacing.  I only made a couple passes through "the big woody" gladed area between those two chairs.

The bad:  lower 3000' of vertical was not user-friendly due to a recent rain-freeze event and that gave the mountain a more limited feeling terrain-wise compared to other large ski areas I visited on the same trip (e.g., LL and SV).  I think we only skied the long groomers to the base maybe twice in two days, and downloaded on the gondi the rest of the time.  Never did the long bump run under the gondola line, it was concrete.

I really couldn't complain about our two days there, excellent snow and no people.  It's just that Revy skied like a nice 2500' vert western mtn, not a big, huge 5000' vert western mtn that its statistics might imply.  Not my first recommendation for someone flying from the east coast to spend a week at.  LL and SV would be for that part of Canada.  And if I had experienced any crowds it might have surely decreased my fun factor further.  They've added another upper mtn chairlift since my visit.

More Revy discussion and a bunch of photos here.

This is another report and includes discussion and photos on Revy, Lake Louise, Sunshine Village, and Norquay, here.
Sunshine Village has an unusual mix of relatively easy terrain, and exceptionally challenging terrain.  It had the best snow conditions during my visit to that part of Canada and that added to my favorable impression, but I liked Lake Louise a great deal too.  Lake Louise is like a day-trip ski area on steriods.  No development at the bottom except for one giant base lodge.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 2, 2022)

jimk said:


> That would probably be a fine trip (probably flying in/out of Calgary) especially if you get reasonably decent conditions.  Don't know Panorama, but I'm sure it would be fun for a couple of days.
> 
> My two cents on Revy, I have only skied Revy for two consecutive days in mid-March 2018, take with grain of salt.
> 
> ...



ive been to rev with fair snow. not great. not terrible. i fully agree that conditions can change massively traveling 5000 vertical feet, and that i very rarely skied lower than the top of the gondola, unless i was going down to the bottom to leave.

sunshine is fucking weird. did not really like it. goat stuff is cool. dive was closed when i went. but fuck what a bunch of annoying little 800-1000 foot pods. its sunday river! also hate that approach gondola. i preferred louise vastly. 

kicking horse remains my favorite that I've skied in that neck of the woods, and i'd pony up for a day at the horse as a stopover between rev and banff. 

however, i think I'm gonna stick with jackson sun valley and utah trip as planned.


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## jaytrem (Sep 2, 2022)

I broke down and grabbed an Indy Pass again.  Just too good a deal to pass up.  With that, I decided to go with 2 Indy based trips to go along with my Utah "Yeti Pass" trip.

First one will be Oregon attempt #3,will be with the kids this time.  The first 2 attempts were low snow years and we ended up driving to Idaho both times.  Plan is for Hoodoo, Warner, maybe an hour at Cedar Pass, Ashland, Shasta, Willamette, Hood Meadows, Cooper (night skiing), Ski Bowl.  Only been to Hood Meadows out of that bunch.  The other years almost every one of those other place was completely closed in the middle of winter.  Hopefully I don't end up with another drive to Idaho for Bogus/Tamarack/Brundage.

Second will be WY/SD/MT, Snowy Range, Hogadon (night), Meadowlark, Terry Peak, Red Lodge, Sleeping Giant, Antelope Butte.  All new paces for me, so very excited for that one. Almost did this trip a couple years ago but covid killed it and I did a road trip down south instead.

Utah will be whatever is still open in early April.  Taking the kids for their spring break, they can ski (almost) free in Utah this year.  My Yeti Pass is good for 1 ticket at each place, but I have an Epic so I can hit Park City as much as needed.  More likely to do extra days at Powder with the Indy though.  Only new area for me will probably be Woodward.  Would love to get Cherry Peak, but odds of them being open are not great.  Already looks like Sundance will be closed, but I've been there before.  I am holding out hope for Beaver, the "new" terrain opened about a week after I was last there, doh!  So hopefully get to check that out.


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## bigbob (Sep 2, 2022)

snoseek said:


> I'm in strafford County now and a pretty chill drive to gunstock so ot looks like I'll carry gunstock midweek and cannon but Jesus is gunstock an expensive pass!


Howdy neighbor!


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