# Ascutney Said to be in Financial Turmoil



## thetrailboss (Aug 6, 2010)

According to WCAX it appears that the former owners are (or were) having financial problems and were not paying the electric or water bills.  Not good.  

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=12940507

Also, the Valley News had a blurb saying that it appeared that the former owners may be out of the place "in a messy transition."  

http://www.vnews.com/08062010/08062010.htm



> *NEWS: Ascutney Mountain Residents Win Reprieve for an Unpaid Bill *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Anyone hear anything else?


----------



## millerm277 (Aug 6, 2010)

No idea, but I know it has a reputation as being pretty much the only area that has installed a HSQ for a main lift and rarely ever uses it, and it's reportedly lacking in snowmaking in areas that need it.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 6, 2010)

don't know much about the financial / ownership situation, but will say:


that mountain is such a shame.  It doesn't get tons of natural snow, but it's a hulking beast of a mountain.  The expansion possibilities are HUGE.  With how close it is to 91 it could easily be the most accessible big mountain in New England.  You've got the CT right there that you could draw water for snowmaking, plenty of services and labor with Claremont and Springfield so close.

If they didn't have such strict development restrictions, physically, Ascutney has the capability of being as big of a major ski area as Okemo, Stratton, Mt. Snow, really anywhere in Southern VT.

I think it will always struggle as a mid-sized mountain where it is located.  Why go there when you can go Killington, Okemo, Sunapee, etc with not much further of a drive?  Ascutney's problem is it's a victim of being too small and too close to some other major areas.


----------



## billski (Aug 6, 2010)

It's the kind of thing everyone will keep quiet.

Agree with deadhead.  We used to go there in the early 90s when our kids were young.  It was a great deal, convenient, central, and we could just drop off/pickup kids from trailside rooms.  With that, they've always struggled due to snow and lack of capital, and bad investments (a 6 pack, really?)

Rather than trying to think big, maybe they should take a tip from Berkshire East and target locals as their market.  

I get a sense that Tenny is having similar issues.   
It wouldn't suprise me given that the economy is still slumped and consumers are watching their purse strings and more and more are on the edge.   The high end of the economic strata will survive - well capitalized resorts, and those with high end customers.  It's always those who were scraping before the recession that go first.  Magic stands a better chance then most, though another couple mill wouldn't hurt...


----------



## halfpintvt (Aug 7, 2010)

Ascutney Mountain Resort is owned by an LLC called Snowdance LLC-this LLC is controlled by Steven and Susan Plausteiner. Snowdance LLC has secured debt with Textron Financial Corp, PRIF Ascutney, LLC and MFW Associates LLC. MFW Associates is a holding company. The principal agent is Dan Purjes. Purjes is Chairman & CEO of Rockwood Group LLC. He was also the majority owner of Josepthal  & Co, which I believe was going to back an IPO of Snowdance stock. There appears to be alot of debt. A LLC has been registered with the VT Secretary of State as of July 23, 2010. The LLC is called Ascutney Mountain Resort Liquidation Trust, LLC. This does not bode well for Ascutney!


----------



## Glenn (Aug 7, 2010)

That's a shame. Hopefully, they can get things sorted out by the time the cold weather arrives.


----------



## billski (Aug 7, 2010)

Uh oh


----------



## billski (Aug 7, 2010)

They need a fan club like magic
I'll betthough very few azers have been to ascutney in the past three years. 
I have not


----------



## bousquet19 (Aug 7, 2010)

Sad news.  

No encouragement from the Ascutney website:  no events are listed on the summer schedule, and season ticket pricing information for 2010-11 is still listed as "coming soon".

Woody


----------



## Tin Woodsman (Aug 7, 2010)

When I read that the HSQ didn't run very often due to lack of snowmaking up top, and that additional trails hadn't been cut off North Peak as planned, the writing was pretty much on the wall.  Couldn't agree more w/r/t the possibilities of that place but the restrictions in place likely preclude it carving out the market space that it's physical qualities would enable.


----------



## riverc0il (Aug 7, 2010)

billski said:


> They need a fan club like magic
> I'll betthough very few azers have been to ascutney in the past three years.
> I have not


I have never ever been but have wanted to give it a try for sometime now. Their rumored operational issues (HSQ not turning and lack of snow making) combined with low natural snow fall for its geographic location and fairly high prices for the product offered have always kept me away. Hopefully new management can pick that place up and turn it into something. It is surprising that it does not have more draw and attention given its location and the massive amount of traffic buzzing right past it on I-91 north.

These are troubling times for mid-sized New England areas. First the Tenney rumor and now the Ascutney rumor and of course Magic would be done for it not for its extremely hardcore following and good buzz. Balsams up for sale but that does not mean too much as ownership can change hands without effecting area operations. It is surprising to see Magic in a better position than Ascutney and Tenney!


----------



## playoutside (Aug 8, 2010)

Sad news indeed. It's seems to be a mountain with so much potential. 

I skied there last year for the first time in about 10 years. I have to say the day left me perplexed. It was in late Jan when there was a lot of snow most everywhere in Vermont. It was the day after I skied at Pico with some of the finest conditions I'd seen there. I'll admit my expectations were high for good conditions, but they were just plain bad. Very firm all around with lots of ice that came out of nowhere, and top was really treacherous. It was so different than the day before at Pico, you would have thought these mountains were hundreds of miles apart. I was pleasantly surprised by the variety of the terrain, but couldn't enjoy the day with so much ice. I know they have a rep for not blowing snow, but they were blowing snow that day on the lower mountain. The chairs are slow, but they are slow other places, so I can't hold that against them. The lodge is a bit sad, but has a nice fireplace. There were very few people there that Sunday. We skied 2 hrs and called it quits since it just wasn't much fun.

I kept thinking they were in some bad weather vortex to be stuck with such unpleasant conditions when other places seemed to have great snow.  Seemed to me they were trying hard, but not getting enough customers to make it work.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 9, 2010)

For almost three years I lived about 20 miles away and never skied there and never heard anything about the place.  If anything, all I heard were bad things about the rotating door of employees and management.  Apparently the owners were kind of obnoxious and did not treat folks well.  I have heard many say that it had many problems.  This is the first time I heard that the HSQ (not six pack...that's Ragged) would not turn on a regular basis.  It's too bad because they have a lot of things going for it.


----------



## millerm277 (Aug 9, 2010)

@Trailboss - From what friends have told me that own in the area (and ski there), they run whatever the fixed grip lift is that's next to the HSQ more often, because apparently from where the quad lets out down to the top of the other lift, usually has bad snowmaking/conditions and is windy. 

Again, this is all secondhand though.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2010)

looking at the trail map, it would appear that only 3 trails for a short length are not accessible when the HSQ is closed.  

It's mroe the principle than anything though.  People want to ski from the summit when they pay a walk up rate and they want the 'signature' lift to be open.  For most mountains, that's a High Speed lift to the summit.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 9, 2010)

Millerm:  thanks.  I agree with DHS that usually places close their fixed grips during slow periods and run their high speed quads.  Seems odd to do the opposite.  

Is it possible that Ascutney could become the first NELSAP area with an HSQ?


----------



## threecy (Aug 9, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> I agree with DHS that usually places close their fixed grips during slow periods and run their high speed quads.  Seems odd to do the opposite.



It probably costs them 2-3X as much an hour to run the HSQ as it does the FGT.  If the place is a ghost town (which I've observed during the week there either skiing or stopping by), it's tough to spend thousands of dollars a week of cash you don't have to run a lift that serves virtually no additional terrain for a dozen or two of your closest friends.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 9, 2010)

threecy said:


> It probably costs them 2-3X as much an hour to run the HSQ as it does the FGT. If the place is a ghost town (which I've observed during the week there either skiing or stopping by), it's tough to spend thousands of dollars a week of cash you don't have to run a lift that serves virtually no additional terrain for a dozen or two of your closest friends.


 
Very true.  I was just thinking from a customer perspective, i.e. why ski at a place that closes its fastest lift down?


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2010)

Perhaps they're not getting much mid-week love because their 2009-2010 Season Pass prices was $839!!! :blink:

Also, the weekend walk up rate was $62.  Midweek - $60.  If they're not running their main lift midweek, my expectation as a consumer would be that the lift ticket price be reduced considerably.  $50 max for what that mountain has to offer via fixed grip lifts only.


----------



## threecy (Aug 9, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> I was just thinking from a customer perspective, i.e. why ski at a place that closes its fastest lift down?



It's certainly a long ride on that triple when you see an idle HSQ next to you.


----------



## Tin Woodsman (Aug 9, 2010)

threecy said:


> It probably costs them 2-3X as much an hour to run the HSQ as it does the FGT.  If the place is a ghost town (which I've observed during the week there either skiing or stopping by), it's tough to spend thousands of dollars a week of cash you don't have to run a lift that serves virtually no additional terrain for a dozen or two of your closest friends.



The problem is that this lift and trail expansion was supposed to be the big marketing splash that got them into the "big leagues" of New England skiing.  Going from 1530' vert to 1800' vert is a big deal in these parts, yet the lift sits idle most of the time.  Maybe they shouldn't have put that lift in at all, but now that it's installed, you look kind of silly if you don't run it.  Not running that lift isn't the problem though - it's merely a symptom of the underlying financial problem.


----------



## ts01 (Aug 9, 2010)

IIRC current management bought Ascutney in the early 1990's for around $250,000.  Hopefully someone can raise it from the ashes of the liquidating trust.  Terrain looked great when I visited there one summer but I never made it in the winter because of conditions -- which seem to compare badly to alternatives on all but the best fresh snow days due to relatively low elevation.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 9, 2010)

I hope that this is just a mere changing of the guard and that the place is not shutting down.  That would be sad.  

Considering how much bad press I heard about the owners, I'm surprised that they made it this long.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 9, 2010)

threecy said:


> It's certainly a long ride on that triple when you see an idle HSQ next to you.


 
Thanks for getting where I was coming from threecy.  I can appreciate your point, i.e. the cost of doing business, but it just seems odd to install and market the HSQ and not to run it.  Most clientele these days demand high speed lifts, especially if you are marketing in SNH or Northern Mass.


----------



## mountainman (Aug 9, 2010)

*I agree.*



thetrailboss said:


> For almost three years I lived about 20 miles away and never skied there and never heard anything about the place.  If anything, all I heard were bad things about the rotating door of employees and management.  Apparently the owners were kind of obnoxious and did not treat folks well.  I have heard many say that it had many problems.  This is the first time I heard that the HSQ (not six pack...that's Ragged) would not turn on a regular basis.  It's too bad because they have a lot of things going for it.



     I was employed at Ascutney and was Asst. Mtn. Manager that moved on after 1 year. Was in charge of Snowmaking and Grooming and what else ever needed to be done. Put in some long hours to put down a product that Ascutney had never seen before. Put together snow guns and resurrected a few older ones that were more efficient and produce a good product and groomed on a nightly bases. We did get a leased Prinoth Bison to groom with which helped a lot. Left a lot of terrain un-groomed or groomed it when needed. Ascutney is a great mountain that can support it self with the proper owner and a hand full of good workers. The HSQ has no beginner terrain off of it, but that could change. It was hard to make snow up top cause you have to use a booster pump to get water up their ( a diesel engine with a water pump attached.)  The HSQ could only run at 600 fpm, due to some issues that were not taken care of when installed. There is no electricity at the top of the lift and we had to run a generator to get the lift up and running. It took some time to even get that lift pre-op. 
            I did hear the bull wheel on the Fixed Grip failed last season. Spent most of the first summer I was their getting the Triple up to code and the Hall Double Chair up and running. The snowmaking system does work, but had a lot of pump issues’ which limited the snowmaking capacity. If every thing was up and running you could run about 45 to 50 guns at a time probably more if they were HKD’s 
     Hope Ascutney can continue with out closing this up coming season. Would love to go back and work there if the possibility’s come about.
     P.S. I knew i had something was strange when i started there cause the first the letters in Ascutney were ASC. LOL


----------



## riverc0il (Aug 9, 2010)

threecy said:


> It probably costs them 2-3X as much an hour to run the HSQ as it does the FGT.  If the place is a ghost town (which I've observed during the week there either skiing or stopping by), it's tough to spend thousands of dollars a week of cash you don't have to run a lift that serves virtually no additional terrain for a dozen or two of your closest friends.


Or... perhaps they are a ghost town because when people go there, they see a HSQ not turning and they spend more time freezing their but off on a fixed grip. Perhaps they don't come back after they see that. Chicken? Or Egg?


----------



## threecy (Aug 9, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Or... perhaps they are a ghost town because when people go there, they see a HSQ not turning and they spend more time freezing their but off on a fixed grip. Perhaps they don't come back after they see that. Chicken? Or Egg?



Domino effect would probably be the better theory...I don't think there were that many people around to see the HSQ not running during the week.  Now, with it there sitting idle, it probably only adds to it.



mountainman said:


> The HSQ could only run at 600 fpm, due to some issues that were not taken care of when installed.


What year was that?  In March of 2005 it appeared to be running faster than 600 FPM.



thetrailboss said:


> Thanks for getting where I was coming from threecy.  I can appreciate your point, i.e. the cost of doing business, but it just seems odd to install and market the HSQ and not to run it.  Most clientele these days demand high speed lifts, especially if you are marketing in SNH or Northern Mass.



They had run it during the week, but it certainly didn't bring in enough business to justify it.  I would imagine they compared revenue vs. costs and found it made more sense for them bite the bullet and run the triple instead.


Something that hasn't been mentioned enough in this thread - Sunapee.  Sunapee is a very reasonable drive from the Claremont area (the closest town of size near Ascutney).  Prior to the late 1990s, Sunapee was an aging, government-run ski area with only fixed grip triple chairlifts (Ascutney's largest lifts were triples as well).

Something happened just before Ascutney put through this HSQ expansion - the Muellers took over Sunapee and made it a huge success, installing three quad chairs (including an HSQ) in two years.  This certainly had an effect on Ascutney, their decisions, and subsequent results.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 10, 2010)

The latest:  

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=12950884


----------



## bobbutts (Aug 10, 2010)

another thing I notice.. Ascutney has practically no marketing


----------



## Black Phantom (Aug 10, 2010)

I believe that Ascutney is located in the beloved little hamlet of *Brownsville*.


----------



## catskillman (Aug 10, 2010)

Based on this comment posted earlier 

""LLC set up on 7/23/10 - Ascutney Mt Resort LIQUIDATION Trust"

It's over - key work Liquidation.  

sounds like Chapter 7


----------



## billski (Aug 10, 2010)

catskillman said:


> Based on this comment posted earlier
> 
> ""LLC set up on 7/23/10 - Ascutney Mt Resort LIQUIDATION Trust"
> 
> ...



That's exactly how I read it.  The stage has been set.

Unless of course, there is a "hail mary pass" savior, which seems highly unlikely.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Aug 10, 2010)

It was reported a couple of days ago that ecoli was found in the AMR water system and water has to be boiled. This goes along with a Hepititis outbreak at the resort about 10 years ago. These problems remind me of the problems at the Cortina Inn.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 10, 2010)

billski said:


> That's exactly how I read it.  The stage has been set.
> 
> Unless of course, there is a "hail mary pass" savior, which seems highly unlikely.



Maybe Les Otten is looking for something to do these days outside of his wood pellet business.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 10, 2010)

Here's the video version of the story for anyone who wants to watch it:

http://www.wcax.com/global/video.asp?clipId=5015042&topVideoCatNo=63459&autoStart=true


----------



## billski (Aug 10, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Maybe Les Otten is looking for something to do these days outside of his wood pellet business.


He's too busy running for governor of Maine this fall.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 10, 2010)

billski said:


> He's too busy running for governor of Maine this fall.


 
He is not anymore! He lost the primary in June.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Otten#2010_Maine_Gubernatorial_Republican_Primary


----------



## billski (Aug 10, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> He is not anymore! He lost the primary in June.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Otten#2010_Maine_Gubernatorial_Republican_Primary


 
gee, I wonder why????  :roll:


----------



## rocojerry (Aug 10, 2010)

I love Ascutney.  

But I only go after it dumps, sometimes several days after and still find pow.  Its lack of grooming makes the terrain more real mountain-like, stump jumping, rock hopping, random bumps and dips....

I'll be back there, with or without lifts running....

A trip out a few years back solo was a great one for me....


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 10, 2010)

I know the enivronmentalist out there won't like this statement, but in a fantasty world, rich dude or dudette buys the joint and is allowed to expand all the way to the top (if terrain allows), this would create a vertical that is as big as most NE resorts.  Also expand trails to the bowls to right looking up.  Increase snowmaking and upgrade lifts.  Also if super rich, I would just flatten the village area and start from scratch.  From what I have heard, they have some of the best top to bottom terrain (potential terrain).  It's a nice area and has great access.  It also has a population pool of Windsor and Claremont to draw from that would provide some skiers, but also to work.

Back to reality...........


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 10, 2010)

Also, in the comments section of one of the articles, the quad may have been sold and will be dismantled.  Of course this is just speculation.  But with liquidation taking place I would guess this would be the first thing to go.  Probably end up at Sugarloaf...haha.

Anybody know what the skier visits are like at Ascutney?


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 10, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I know the enivronmentalist out there won't like this statement, but in a fantasty world, rich dude or dudette buys the joint and is allowed to expand all the way to the top (if terrain allows), this would create a vertical that is as big as most NE resorts.  Also expand trails to the bowls to right looking up.  Increase snowmaking and upgrade lifts.  Also if super rich, I would just flatten the village area and start from scratch.  From what I have heard, they have some of the best top to bottom terrain (potential terrain).  It's a nice area and has great access.  It also has a population pool of Windsor and Claremont to draw from that would provide some skiers, but also to work.
> 
> Back to reality...........



I'm with you.  Hulking Mountain.  It could easily be a 2300 vert, 700 acre area and rank with any of the major 'snowmaking' resorts in New England..........Okemo, Stratton, Mt. Snow, Loon, Sunday River.

My understanding is the summit is highly protected and expansion options are minimal.


----------



## riverc0il (Aug 10, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Also, in the comments section of one of the articles, the quad may have been sold and will be dismantled.  Of course this is just speculation.  But with liquidation taking place I would guess this would be the first thing to go.  Probably end up at Sugarloaf...haha.


Interesting thought regarding the selling of a used HSQ. Has this ever happened before? I imagine there will be many interested bidders in getting a HSQ on the cheap. This would almost certainly go to a bigger player with deeper pockets... a used HSQ will be a lot cheaper than new but I doubt it will be a bargain by any means since there essentially is nothing on the used high speed market.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 10, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm with you.  Hulking Mountain.  It could easily be a 2300 vert, 700 acre area and rank with any of the major 'snowmaking' resorts in New England..........Okemo, Stratton, Mt. Snow, Loon, Sunday River.
> 
> My understanding is the summit is highly protected and expansion options are minimal.



It has so many cool little pod areas at high elevation.  Granted I am not sure if they are even feasable with permitting and if the terrain is condusive to holding snow or for that matter isn't just ledge with way to steep pitches.  Such a cool mountian.


----------



## billski (Aug 10, 2010)

rocojerry said:


> I love Ascutney.
> 
> But I only go after it dumps, sometimes several days after and still find pow.  Its lack of grooming makes the terrain more real mountain-like, stump jumping, rock hopping, random bumps and dips....
> 
> ...



Ascutney is a little too lonely. (did I really say that?)  Sure is nice having trails to yourself, but it won't pay the bills.  If you stay in the hotel, there is only one restaurant and one snack bar after the lifts close.  After a couple of days, you find yourself eating the same thing.  As much as I like lonely, if they don't get enough people, they can't justify more amenities.  without amenities, people won't come.  A catch-22.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2010)

It's pretty sad to think that the place is worth more as scrap than as a whole.


----------



## Glenn (Aug 11, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I know the enivronmentalist out there won't like this statement, but in a fantasty world, rich dude or dudette buys the joint and is allowed to expand all the way to the top (if terrain allows), this would create a vertical that is as big as most NE resorts.  Also expand trails to the bowls to right looking up.  Increase snowmaking and upgrade lifts.  Also if super rich, I would just flatten the village area and start from scratch.  From what I have heard, they have some of the best top to bottom terrain (potential terrain).  It's a nice area and has great access.  It also has a population pool of Windsor and Claremont to draw from that would provide some skiers, but also to work.
> 
> Back to reality...........



You bring up some good points. I think Act 250 does more harm than good at times. IMHO...just my thoughts.


----------



## twinplanx (Aug 11, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> It's pretty sad to think that the place is worth more as scrap than as a whole.



Also sad, this thread has probally generated the most Ascutney chatter on this board.


----------



## dmc (Aug 11, 2010)

twinplanx said:


> Also sad, this thread has probally generated the most Ascutney chatter on this board.



Good point... Whats the place like?


----------



## Vortex (Aug 11, 2010)

I use to ski here a 100 days a year in the 70's  80's and grew up as a mtn rat here.  8 miles off interstate 91. 25 min south of white River junction

 Cannon and Loon have closer access from the highway, but for the Ct and Ny crowd it offers very quick on and off highway access.  

  We always considered it a skiers mountain. many windy traditional New england ski trails.. A great history,  Millerman was there in my era  I believe.  It really was a fun place.


  One of the first places with snow making.  Its always needed capital to make snow.  

A great moutnain when it has snow.  I have not been there since 88 and the new chair.

I wish the people and the town well.


----------



## twinplanx (Aug 11, 2010)

dmc said:


> Good point... Whats the place like?



I have only been there 4-5 times. Easy access from 91, some technical terrain. Just echoing the statements others have made here. Seems mismanagement and low snow avg. have left the place w/ a  ghost-town-like feeling.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2010)

I wonder if there is any interest in keeping it as a resort and that the liquidation trust is the vehicle to sell it to the new owner?


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 11, 2010)

I used to kick Bob R's butt on the race team there in the late 70's.  Haven't been there in a long time. Echo what bob said although some of the trail widening and grading destroyed some of the old time feel of some trails.

 many mistakes have been made throughout the years but it still has a lot of potential and i would be sad to see it close.


----------



## Vortex (Aug 11, 2010)

Kicked my ass in the power rangers suit too.:smash: blah blah blah

I had some kewl northland skis and plastic ski boots too.


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 11, 2010)

You didn't mention the shinny headgear you used to wear.

My son stole my power ranger suit

Although if I want I can now take some turns on his 210 Atomic super G boards


----------



## Vortex (Aug 11, 2010)

Yea head gear.  Some great terrain and history.  Trail names have changed and all of the that, but I  broke 3 pair of boards on the face of Main in a two week period.  I showed them.  Looked out my bedroom window and saw the top 1/2 of he mountain.  

I will always think of you as my favorite power ranger Dave.


----------



## orangegondola (Aug 11, 2010)

Skied there a handfull of times, great mountain.  Will be a great loss for sure.  I hope someone pics it up.  Alot of fun stuff off of that cabin chute side.


----------



## billski (Aug 12, 2010)

Pretty good history too.
http://www.ascutney.com/article/view/9363/1/1179
Damn, a lot of people put a lot of energy into it over 50 years.
they seemed to have recurring problems with debt and chair lifts as far back as the late 50s and early 60s.  Interesting that Aerosmith played there during their formative years.  A very rough financial history, including two previous bankruptcy.  There must be a curse that needs vexing on that mountain!


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 12, 2010)

billski said:


> Pretty good history too.
> Interesting that Aerosmith played there during their formative years.



Aerosmith is pretty tied into that area.

Joe Perry, went to my high school, Vermont Academy.  Got kicked out for refusing to cut his hair.  Only person who never graduated to get a lifetime achievement award from the school.

Steven Tyler's sister lives in Chester, VT.  In High School, I was friends with his nephew, Darren.  We crashed Steven's place on Lake Sunapee a couple of times during high school.  Got arrested once.  Neighbors called the cops on us and when they showed up they didn't believe these scraggly looking high school kids drinking beer in the hot tub could possibly be related to Steven.  Got to meet Steven and Joe once at a family cookout.  Darren would rag on them something fierce about being a great rock band who  turned themselves into an awful Top 40 Pop band.

More history.  Aerosmith didn't actually write their most famous song, Dream On.  It was written by Joe's classmate and Joe bought it from him for $100 while a student at VA.   Joe's classmate ended up becoming my theatre teachers brother in law.

My only regret in the couple years I was friends with Darren was I never got to meet his cousin, Liv.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 12, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Aerosmith is pretty tied into that area.
> 
> Joe Perry, went to my high school, Vermont Academy.  Got kicked out for refusing to cut his hair.  Only person who never graduated to get a lifetime achievement award from the school.
> 
> ...



Also Joe calls South Pomfret, Vt home.  I think I heard that he raises some type of prized horses.  Also, not that it's uncommon, but Steven Tyler is frequently seen in Lebanon/Hanover.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 12, 2010)

Back to Acutney itself, is it safe to say they only owe 1.5 million or is that what they have just defaulted on?  I guess what I am saying to they probably owe much more then the 1.5 million to other lenders?

One more, do you think somebody out there will actually buy the place?  Is it for sale?  I only ask cuz I have a limited understanding of the whole liquidation process.


----------



## Glenn (Aug 12, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Darren would rag on them something fierce about being a great rock band who  turned themselves into an awful Top 40 Pop band.



LMAO! Cool stories DHS. I didn't realize the band had ties to that particular area of VT.


----------



## Vortex (Aug 12, 2010)

Long history. I first skied there in 70 or 71.  

   Our school was less than a mile away I use to ski after school most days. Friday we got out a noon and skied as our physed program.

  7 days a week and two nights I was there.  Many fore mention folks in the article had 3rd generation kids I grew up with.  The lodge shown in the T-bar shot became the Giles home in the late 70's.  

Some great hiking trails on Ascutney.  I think the Browsnville trail is the one that starts on rt 44 that went to the top. We use to train running it,

I know a few people here were regulars in my era.   Charles Bronson was a regular on the hill.

good vibes sent.

Aerosmith played our high school prom in 67 I believe..


----------



## WWF-VT (Aug 12, 2010)

I have never skied at Ascutney nor have I seen the mountain do much marketing.  Southern VT is a competitive area and I am not aware of how they try to differentiate the mountain from their nearby competitors.


----------



## wa-loaf (Aug 12, 2010)

WWF-VT said:


> I have never skied at Ascutney nor have I seen the mountain do much marketing.  Southern VT is a competitive area and I am not aware of how they try to differentiate the mountain from their nearby competitors.



3 years ago they gave away free passes with the Warren Miller flick. I was set to go and then I blew my ACL.


----------



## catskillman (Aug 16, 2010)

I used that free ticket - the only time I ever skied there.  Without a doubt the conditions were in the top 3 worst I have ever skied.  And I have been skiing 38 years.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 16, 2010)

Anyone heard anything else about what is happening or not happening with Ascutney?


----------



## bobbutts (Aug 17, 2010)

http://www.vnews.com/08162010/6932762.htm
unsubstantiated word on the nelsap forum is they are trying to sell the hsq


----------



## skiNEwhere (Aug 18, 2010)

Of all the places I've skied in Vermont, I hate to say it but Ascutney was my least favorite BY FAR. There was so much ice I felt like I was skiing on a glacier (those quickly melting icebergs in the arctic)

I guess the ice made up for the fact that the mountain seemed like one big bunny slope.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 18, 2010)

bobbutts said:


> http://www.vnews.com/08162010/6932762.htm
> unsubstantiated word on the nelsap forum is they are trying to sell the hsq


 
I saw that and doubt it. I'm sure that the property is worth more operating as a ski resort to the creditors rather than selling it off piece by piece for a loss. Remember that they have substantial real estate development at the base.  No ski area = those property values plummet.  I imagine that they are interested in getting someone to run the place.


----------



## twinplanx (Aug 18, 2010)

twinplanx said:


> I have only been there 4-5 times. Easy access from 91, some technical terrain. Just echoing the statements others have made here. Seems mismanagement and low snow avg. have left the place w/ a  ghost-town-like feeling.



oh, I was just thinking about Ascutney today and wanted to add this. While my bros. car was being repaired at small gas station/service center practicly at the base, we were able to grab a "big pancake". Across the street from the repair shop there was(is?) a dinner/general store type of place. Once we saw the "big pancake" on the menu we knew what we had to do. We were not disappointed. As an added bonus we discovered a bridge behind the dinner to the parking lot by the base.  Good Times  This was over 10yrs ago, I have no idea how those years have changed the town. But I hope for the sake of the good people of Ascutney that someone can breath life back into the "resort".


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 18, 2010)

skiNEwhere said:


> Of all the places I've skied in Vermont, I hate to say it but Ascutney was my least favorite BY FAR. There was so much ice I felt like I was skiing on a glacier (those quickly melting icebergs in the arctic)
> 
> I guess the ice made up for the fact that the mountain seemed like one big bunny slope.



I had heard that Ascutney was icey for two reasons, they made little to no snow and they got to little natural snow for how steep of a mountain it was.  Maybe I misunderstood and what they were saying was there is little to no run out so you get a nice consistent trail.  As you can tell I have never been there.


----------



## riverc0il (Aug 18, 2010)

Regarding conditions, Ascutney just does not get the snow. I have been following snowfall in that region for years wanting to ski there. But there is just a huge gap in snow totals between the spine of the greens and the whites. Their average is 150" which is pretty darn low for VT. The Whites average 170"ish give or take. And of course the spine of the Greens are all 200"+. I don't know why the Upper Valley and surrounding area has a snowfall gap... but that area between the whites and greens just doesn't get the worst of the big storms and often completely misses those micro dumps the spine of the greens get. Just a weird mountain geographically that doesn't help the natural snow.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 19, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Regarding conditions, Ascutney just does not get the snow. I have been following snowfall in that region for years wanting to ski there. But there is just a huge gap in snow totals between the spine of the greens and the whites. Their average is 150" which is pretty darn low for VT. The Whites average 170"ish give or take. And of course the spine of the Greens are all 200"+. I don't know why the Upper Valley and surrounding area has a snowfall gap... but that area between the whites and greens just doesn't get the worst of the big storms and often completely misses those micro dumps the spine of the greens get. Just a weird mountain geographically that doesn't help the natural snow.



I am from the foothills/central Maine originally and then went to school in Plymouth, NH and was always use to getting 75-100 plus inches of snow a year.  In Maine I think the average where I lived was about 104-114 at 300ft elevation.  Anywho, so I move after college to the UV (Lebanon, now Claremont) and think, wow they must get some snow here, Mountains, inland, close to the greens of Vermont, etc.....WRONG.  Since moving here I think we have had one good winter from start to finish and that was 2002 or 2003.  It's funny though once you get out of the immediate Valley and get towards Newport, NH, Enfield, NH and Cannan it can be like a different world.  I remember one year some friends that I worked with rented a place in Cannan and the difference in snow between there and Lebanon, was astounding.  The past two years in Claremont started off well.  In 2008 we had had 2 storms of 18 inches plus all before January 1st, after that a couple moderate storms and once March 1st hit we had zero, and last year was moderate snow here and there, but it always seem to mix with rain at the end.  Thank god the Greens are just a few miles away.  UV clearly is a dead zone.  I am gussing it has something to do with uplift of the greens and then the snow doesn't build again till you get about 20-30 miles east of Leb.


----------



## bobbutts (Aug 19, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I am from the foothills/central Maine originally and then went to school in Plymouth, NH and was always use to getting 75-100 plus inches of snow a year.  In Maine I think the average where I lived was about 104-114 at 300ft elevation.  Anywho, so I move after college to the UV (Lebanon, now Claremont) and think, wow they must get some snow here, Mountains, inland, close to the greens of Vermont, etc.....WRONG.  Since moving here I think we have had one good winter from start to finish and that was 2002 or 2003.  It's funny though once you get out of the immediate Valley and get towards Newport, NH, Enfield, NH and Cannan it can be like a different world.  I remember one year some friends that I worked with rented a place in Cannan and the difference in snow between there and Lebanon, was astounding.  The past two years in Claremont started off well.  In 2008 we had had 2 storms of 18 inches plus all before January 1st, after that a couple moderate storms and once March 1st hit we had zero, and last year was moderate snow here and there, but it always seem to mix with rain at the end.  Thank god the Greens are just a few miles away.  UV clearly is a dead zone.*  I am gussing it has something to do with uplift of the greens* and then the snow doesn't build again till you get about 20-30 miles east of Leb.










The greens aren't tall enough to cast an extreme shadow like you see in bigger mt. ranges, but tall enough for this effect to give the spine a bump and to screw Ascutney


----------



## Tin Woodsman (Aug 19, 2010)

bobbutts said:


> The greens aren't tall enough to cast an extreme shadow like you see in bigger mt. ranges, but tall enough for this effect to give the spine a bump and to screw Ascutney



Rain/snow shadow is one reason for sure - especially on the wrap-around and orographic events that hit the spine.  Another is that Ascutney is a Monadnock, and so it doesn't generate much in the way of uplift when moist winds blow in from the W or NW.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 19, 2010)

The latest from VPR:  http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/88662/


----------



## Glenn (Aug 20, 2010)

I hope they can sort things out. It's rough enough that the mountain may close...but then you throw in people who count on the sewer and water services.


----------



## threecy (Aug 20, 2010)

A partial history of the growth of Ascutney over the years:

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/skiareaexpansions/Vermont/ascutney.php


----------



## Mikey1 (Aug 20, 2010)

Tough news about Ascutney, the mountain itself has a lot of potential. I have only been there 3 times, but enjoyed it each time. I hope their white knight comes riding in soon.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 23, 2010)

For those who have not *checked their website lately:*



> *2010 -2011 Season Pass pricing & ordering information coming VERY SOON!!!!*


----------



## Black Phantom (Aug 23, 2010)

*4th of July must have been a blast*

BROWNSVILLE  CELEBRATES THE 4TH OF JULY!!!! Remember the old saying, "You don't know what you got till it's gone?" We learned that lesson last year when there was virtually no Independence Day celebration in Brownsville  and it was awful!!!! Hats off to the wonderful group of community members who have banded together to bring the 4th back to our town - they have pulled out all the stops to provide us all with what is sure to be a memorable celebration.  Here is the schedule - be sure to mark the times on your calendar - you won't want to miss a minute of the fun. 

Friday, July 2nd:  A dazzling display of fireworks will light up the sky over Little Eagle at Ascutney Mountain Resort with parking in the Base Lodge parking lot. 

Saturday, July 3rd:

7:00 - 10:00     Pancake Breakfast at the Brownsville Church

9:00 - 2:00       Flea Market & Craft Booths at the Fire Station

10:00 - 12:30   Games for kids of all ages in the center of town

10:00 - 3:00     Music by Jason Cann and Warehouse

11:00 - 11:30   Pie Eating Contest at the Fire Station

1:00 - 1:45       Parade: Floats, Bands, Cars and much more

1:45 - 2:15       Upper Valley Community Bank in the center of town

2:00 - 3:30       Bike Skill Park in Leland's Field (next to the General Store)

4:00 - 7:00       Brownsville's Famous Baked Bean Supper at the Grange Hall

Food will be available throughout the day featuring BBQ chicken, hamburgers, hotdogs, pulled pork, Italian sausages, french fries, fried dough, beverages, fruit smoothies and ice cream.


----------



## billski (Aug 23, 2010)

Black Phantom said:


> BROWNSVILLE CELEBRATES THE 4TH OF JULY!!!! .


 
It's only 315 days 230 miles away...
I like the tie-in with Ascutney though :blink:
so nice to have BB back again...


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 23, 2010)

Black Phantom said:


> BROWNSVILLE CELEBRATES THE 4TH OF JULY!!!! Remember the old saying, "You don't know what you got till it's gone?" We learned that lesson last year when there was virtually no Independence Day celebration in Brownsville and it was awful!!!! Hats off to the wonderful group of community members who have banded together to bring the 4th back to our town - they have pulled out all the stops to provide us all with what is sure to be a memorable celebration. Here is the schedule - be sure to mark the times on your calendar - you won't want to miss a minute of the fun.
> 
> Friday, July 2nd: A dazzling display of fireworks will light up the sky over Little Eagle at Ascutney Mountain Resort with parking in the Base Lodge parking lot.
> 
> ...


 
:blink:


----------



## mountainman (Aug 23, 2010)

*It's old*



thetrailboss said:


> For those who have not *checked their website lately:*
> 
> [/B][/FONT]


That is the oringal web site. Nothing new yet.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 23, 2010)

mountainman said:


> That is the oringal web site. Nothing new yet.


 
The statement about 2010-2011 passes is a new development.


----------



## mountainman (Aug 23, 2010)

*Trust me.*



thetrailboss said:


> The statement about 2010-2011 passes is a new development.


It's the website that has been up, it's nothing new. Go to resort info, they are still hiring for the 09/10 season. Can't see it happening this year. Hope i'm wrong, but it's that bad of a hike if they are not open this winter.


----------



## reefer (Aug 24, 2010)

Very unfortunate. I've had some great days there the past few years. Have to hit it after a snowfall, but it doesn't get tracked out for days....................some real good terrain!


----------



## riverc0il (Aug 24, 2010)

reefer said:


> Very unfortunate. I've had some great days there the past few years. Have to hit it after a snowfall, but it doesn't get tracked out for days....................some real good terrain!


Nice pics! Looks like some good trails and trees. Ascutney has been on the list for a while. I am putting on my "must ski" list this year. Whether the lifts turn or not.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 24, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Nice pics! Looks like some good trails and trees. Ascutney has been on the list for a while. I am putting on my "must ski" list this year. Whether the lifts turn or not.


 
+ 1.  Looks like amazing conditions and very nice terrain.


----------



## farlep99 (Sep 10, 2010)

Any updates on the situation here?  Seems like it's starting to get late for them to prepare for the upcoming season


----------



## mountainman (Sep 12, 2010)

*Not this season.*

It will join the list. www.nelsap.org


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2010)

I always thought a good idea for snowmaking there would be to just run a pipe to the CT river.  Granted going under the state highway would be a permitting nightmare, but the CT is as closer or closer to Ascutney as the Woodard Resevoir was to Killington.

That would give them all the water they'd ever need and more.


----------



## billski (Sep 12, 2010)

http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/88662/


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 12, 2010)

Mountainman: is there an article or something you saw that or just word on the street?


----------



## mountainman (Sep 12, 2010)

*From a x-employee.*

He worked their last winter and goes to the hotel in the summer to work. "Very good chance it's not going to open this season". X-employee.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 12, 2010)

mountainman said:


> He worked their last winter and goes to the hotel in the summer to work. "Very good chance it's not going to open this season". X-employee.


 
It is starting to get late.  Nothing new on their website.  You need to be selling passes ASAP and then getting staff and the equipment ready.


----------



## billski (Sep 18, 2010)

Well, if you can't ski Ascutney, you can "hill climb" this weekend:
http://www.massdriven.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41459

http://www.hillclimb.org/events/ascutney/ascutney-road-map.jpg

this is in the state park lands.


----------



## billski (Sep 18, 2010)

halfpintvt said:


> Ascutney Mountain Resort is owned by an LLC called Snowdance LLC-this LLC is controlled by Steven and Susan Plausteiner. Snowdance LLC has secured debt with Textron Financial Corp, PRIF Ascutney, LLC and MFW Associates LLC. MFW Associates is a holding company. The principal agent is Dan Purjes. Purjes is Chairman & CEO of Rockwood Group LLC. He was also the majority owner of Josepthal & Co, which I believe was going to back an IPO of Snowdance stock. There appears to be alot of debt. A LLC has been registered with the VT Secretary of State as of July 23, 2010. The LLC is called Ascutney Mountain Resort Liquidation Trust, LLC. This does not bode well for Ascutney!


 
Snowdance LLC closed up shop in May.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2010)

No word lately and Ascutney is not listed as a ski area on the Ski Vermont website.  Not good.


----------



## billski (Oct 18, 2010)

the resort has oddly been consumed with non-snow related activities:

*Rugged Maniac 5K draws 2,200 to inaugural event  http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/10/rugged_maniac_5k_draws_2200_to.html
*


----------



## billski (Oct 20, 2010)

*Ascutney ain't happening this year*

I just spoke with the hotel operator/owner.

The ski operation was foreclosed on this summer.  The current owner has no interest in ski operations and no buyer is presently in the offing.

The hotel is separately run and operated and IS OPERATING.  They are trying to help their guests with ski and stay packages for Sunapee and other nearby mountains.  Their relationship with Holiday Inn Vacations will persist.

Too bad.


----------



## djspookman (Oct 20, 2010)

too bad indeed.  I know where I'll be skinning this year though!


----------



## billski (Oct 20, 2010)

djspookman said:


> too bad indeed.  I know where I'll be skinning this year though!



I should have told the hotel owner to start to package up some "skinnin vacations!"


----------



## snowmonster (Oct 20, 2010)

Bad news, indeed. I hate it when an area gets NELSAP-ed.


----------



## Glenn (Oct 20, 2010)

That's terrible. I'd like to think someone will buy it, but given the economy.....


----------



## billski (Oct 23, 2010)

Sad, sad sad.  The Ascutney quad is on the market.


----------



## threecy (Oct 23, 2010)

billski said:


> Sad, sad sad.  The Ascutney quad is on the market.



Has been for awhile.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 28, 2010)

*The latest - which really isn't much new news*

http://www.onthesnow.com/news/12/a/13754/ascutney-wont-operate-this-winter


----------



## mondeo (Oct 28, 2010)

snowmonster said:


> Bad news, indeed. I hate it when an area gets NELSAP-ed.


Silver lining is, as contraction occurs, the areas left standing become more stable and have more resources. You'd like to keep unique places, but there's probably (realistically) too many ski areas in Northern NE. The visits Ascutney would have seen this season will go to other places, helping pay for snowmaking improvements, lift replacements, lodge renovations, etc., rather than just paying the bills at Ascutney.


----------



## rocojerry (Oct 28, 2010)

djspookman said:


> too bad indeed.  I know where I'll be skinning this year though!



Let me know when you're heading up, I hope to skin it during the busy holiday season weeks/weekends when my vouchers, coupons, etc are not valid!  Of course some new snow will be in the forecast too --


----------



## roark (Oct 28, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Silver lining is, as contraction occurs, the areas left standing become more stable and have more resources. You'd like to keep unique places, but there's probably (realistically) too many ski areas in Northern NE. The visits Ascutney would have seen this season will go to other places, helping pay for snowmaking improvements, lift replacements, lodge renovations, etc., rather than just paying the bills at Ascutney.


You buy into the whole capitalistic thing a bit too much methinks. 

So much money is spent at places like Kmart, okemo, sunapee, stratton, bromley... no wonder skier visits are declining if that is what people think 'skiing' is... people don't realize they have a choice!


----------



## djspookman (Oct 28, 2010)

rocojerry said:


> Let me know when you're heading up, I hope to skin it during the busy holiday season weeks/weekends when my vouchers, coupons, etc are not valid!  Of course some new snow will be in the forecast too --



will do!


----------



## mondeo (Oct 28, 2010)

roark said:


> You buy into the whole capitalistic thing a bit too much methinks.
> 
> So much money is spent at places like Kmart, okemo, sunapee, stratton, bromley... no wonder skier visits are declining if that is what people think 'skiing' is... people don't realize they have a choice!


You ignore the whole reality thing a bit too much, methinks.

It's not that Ascutney closing means that Mt. Snow will put in an extra lift next year. They might buy an extra fan gun or two. But to think it doesn't improve the financials of the other resorts is pretty blind; whatever visits Ascutney got pretty much have to go somewhere, it's not just going to disappear. Biggest benefactors will be the smaller players, the mounains where every ticket sold matters. Like Magic. Other places that are consistently profitable will increase margins, some of which will come back as larger cap ex budgets. If they had the unlimited resources that people like to think big businesses do have, why is Snowdon still waiting for a HSQ? Why don't all the big players exclusively use low-e guns/fan guns, that pay immediate dividends in reduced energy consumption?


----------



## roark (Oct 28, 2010)

You think skier demand is a constant. That's funny.


----------



## mondeo (Oct 28, 2010)

roark said:


> You think skier demand is a constant. That's funny.


Where did I say demand was constant? I said people that would have gone to Ascutney will go somewhere else, in general. Maybe a small number of visits disappear. 5-10%. Everyone else still gains. The market's overcrowded with too much investment over the last 15 years without actual growth to pay off the investment. Something's gotta give.


----------



## sull1102 (Oct 28, 2010)

mondeo said:


> You ignore the whole reality thing a bit too much, methinks.
> 
> It's not that Ascutney closing means that Mt. Snow will put in an extra lift next year. They might buy an extra fan gun or two. But to think it doesn't improve the financials of the other resorts is pretty blind; *whatever visits Ascutney got pretty much have to go somewhere,* it's not just going to disappear. Biggest benefactors will be the smaller players, the mounains where every ticket sold matters. Like Magic. Other places that are consistently profitable will increase margins, some of which will come back as larger cap ex budgets. If they had the unlimited resources that people like to think big businesses do have, why is Snowdon still waiting for a HSQ? Why don't all the big players exclusively use low-e guns/fan guns, that pay immediate dividends in reduced energy consumption?


Seems like thats exactly what your saying, no?


----------



## mister moose (Oct 28, 2010)

mondeo said:


> It's not that Ascutney closing means that Mt. Snow will put in an extra lift next year. They might buy an extra fan gun or two. But to think it doesn't improve the financials of the other resorts is pretty blind; whatever visits Ascutney got pretty much have to go somewhere, it's not just going to disappear. Biggest benefactors will be the smaller players, the mounains where every ticket sold matters. Like Magic. Other places that are consistently profitable will increase margins, some of which will come back as larger cap ex budgets. If they had the unlimited resources that people like to think big businesses do have, why is Snowdon still waiting for a HSQ? Why don't all the big players exclusively use low-e guns/fan guns, that pay immediate dividends in reduced energy consumption?



The Ascutney day traffic will likely go to Mt Snow, the only other significant VT mountain within the same driving time.  The weekend traffic will get sprinkled over southern Vermont.  A large chunk of the business is the condo and home owners.  They will want to use their 2nd home, and will day trip from there.  That means the biggest chunk goes to Okemo or Killington, maybe a little to Suicide Six.  If you're a homeowner at Ascutney, you have to be thinking about a season pass somewhere, day tickets add up in a hurry.  I can't see them buying a season pass at Suicide Six, so that leaves Okemo and Killington again.

Ascutney has something many smaller NELSAPed areas didn't have - the condo population.  That group, plus the town, plus the lienholders have a very large vested interest in keeping the mountain running, even if on a reduced basis.  I can see where they reopen next year on a Pico/Magic/Bear Creek style Thursday-Sunday plus holidays schedule.  That's if no wars break out between those different groups.


----------



## mondeo (Oct 28, 2010)

sull1102 said:


> Seems like thats exactly what your saying, no?


Well, the alternative is Ascutney skiers stop skiing. I doubt that's going to happen.


----------



## Geoff (Oct 28, 2010)

mister moose said:


> The Ascutney day traffic will likely go to Mt Snow, the only other significant VT mountain within the same driving time.  The weekend traffic will get sprinkled over southern Vermont.  A large chunk of the business is the condo and home owners.  They will want to use their 2nd home, and will day trip from there.  That means the biggest chunk goes to Okemo or Killington, maybe a little to Suicide Six.  If you're a homeowner at Ascutney, you have to be thinking about a season pass somewhere, day tickets add up in a hurry.  I can't see them buying a season pass at Suicide Six, so that leaves Okemo and Killington again.
> 
> Ascutney has something many smaller NELSAPed areas didn't have - the condo population.  That group, plus the town, plus the lienholders have a very large vested interest in keeping the mountain running, even if on a reduced basis.  I can see where they reopen next year on a Pico/Magic/Bear Creek style Thursday-Sunday plus holidays schedule.  That's if no wars break out between those different groups.



Sunapee is 30 miles.   I doubt the typical Ascutney skier is going to shell out $82.00 to ski Killington or Okemo.


----------



## billski (Oct 28, 2010)

Everything I've seen and heard indicated the number of visits to Ascutney was abysmally small.  Any impact on market dispersion by and large has already occurred, save for the captive condo market.

We stayed at the hotel for 2 and 3 day periods when the kids were young.  There was the restaurant in the hotel and a little snack/pizza place.  After 2 days were were eating the same things over and over again, since we don't cook for short stays like that.


----------



## mister moose (Oct 28, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Sunapee is 30 miles.   I doubt the typical Ascutney skier is going to shell out $82.00 to ski Killington or Okemo.



Perhaps, but you have the Boston I-93 driver mindset.  As a lifetime CT I-91 driver, Sunapee isn't even on my radar screen.  Never been there.  Why go 30 miles the wrong way towards less snow when you can go to Magic, Bromley, or a bigger mountain?  I'd be buying K55 tickets or something similar if I was a weekend skier.  The appeal  to us for Ascutney was it was under 2 hours and day tripable. Sunapee adds another half hour and gets you nothing extra for the drive.  For CT skiers, it's Vermont for the weekend or the northern berkshires for the day.  Mt Snow and Ascutney are right on the 2 hour mark, and are tolerable for day trips, but not frequently.

The real deal for Ascutney property owners is the Sunapee/Okemo pass for 1,059 or the blackout pass that adds Stratton for 845.  They are central to Okemo and Sunapee, and can get both on one pass. If they can afford a condo, they can likely afford a pass.

Ascutney day tickets last year were $62.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 28, 2010)

mondeo is spot on. Lost ski areas are easy to romanticize. But there are only so many skier visits to go around. Its easy for us to sit around and say it sucks that Ascutney is going under. But how many of us have skied Ascutney? And out of that very limited number of folks, how many would have ever gone back if they had stayed open? I don't think its buying into the capitalistic thing too much to look at this from a basic economic stand point. It sucks for those that enjoyed Ascutney and it really sucks for the property owners and it sucks for anyone that might have potentially enjoyed skiing there in the future. But will skier visits that would have gone to Ascutney help other areas? Absolutely. Could even help Magic if a family that used to ski Ascutney is looking to try a different ski area in the lower half of VT.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Oct 28, 2010)

mister moose said:


> Perhaps, but you have the Boston I-93 driver mindset.  As a lifetime CT I-91 driver, Sunapee isn't even on my radar screen.  Never been there.  Why go 30 miles the wrong way towards less snow when you can go to Magic, Bromley, or a bigger mountain?  I'd be buying K55 tickets or something similar if I was a weekend skier.  The appeal  to us for Ascutney was it was under 2 hours and day tripable. Sunapee adds another half hour and gets you nothing extra for the drive.  For CT skiers, it's Vermont for the weekend or the northern berkshires for the day.  Mt Snow and Ascutney are right on the 2 hour mark, and are tolerable for day trips, but not frequently.
> 
> The real deal for Ascutney property owners is the Sunapee/Okemo pass for 1,059 or the blackout pass that adds Stratton for 845.  They are central to Okemo and Sunapee, and can get both on one pass. If they can afford a condo, they can likely afford a pass.
> 
> Ascutney day tickets last year were $62.



I honestly doubt that Ascutney skiers actually use I-91 or I-93.  The people that go to Ascutney are more likely to use Route 11, 131, 5, 12a and 120.  This would mean they would probably opt for Okemo or Sunapee as an alternative.  I doubt many people drive from Ct, Western Mass, NY to go to Ascutney.  I would guess that the people that typically go to Ascutney are from Claremont, Windsor, Weathersfield, Charleston, etc.  And with that I doubt the numbers that Ascutney got would amount to any significant surge at any of the nearby ski areas.


----------



## billski (Oct 28, 2010)

last time I was there, an oral surgeon's meeting was taking place.  When they departed I went into the meeting room and they had left behind all their gum disease photo enlargements.  Lost my appetite immediately.   Dr. Jeff I'm sure knows more, but you bring your family, kick them out onto the slopes and stay stuck inside all day looking at pretty pictures.

My crocodile tears about Ascutney, Maple Valley, Tenny and the list goes on, is that once you lose a mountain, it's hard to get it back again due to the enviromental pressures imposed on new developments.  I understand the economics, but I really loath the day that most lift-served areas become a homogeneous set of predictable, safe, reliable boring slopes.
Put some rocks back on the trail, please.  Guess I'll go cut some more woods lines....

I'll bet Ascutney's customers were a hodge podge of people from all over the place.  Probably hard to find a target market, other than the real estate owners.  I guess they figured if they can't do it with skiers.boarders, they will do it with golfers.    I went there with my family because it was out of the way, I would not have to worry about the kids getting brain trauma from an OOC Yahoo.  Our objective was to burn out the kids and get a nice, quiet night's sleep


----------



## Geoff (Oct 28, 2010)

mister moose said:


> Perhaps, but you have the Boston I-93 driver mindset.  As a lifetime CT I-91 driver, Sunapee isn't even on my radar screen.  Never been there.



So tell us about all your Ascutney days.


----------



## mister moose (Oct 28, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I honestly doubt that Ascutney skiers actually use I-91 or I-93.  The people that go to Ascutney are more likely to use Route 11, 131, 5, 12a and 120.  This would mean they would probably opt for Okemo or Sunapee as an alternative.  I doubt many people drive from Ct, Western Mass, NY to go to Ascutney.  I would guess that the people that typically go to Ascutney are from Claremont, Windsor, Weathersfield, Charleston, etc.  And with that I doubt the numbers that Ascutney got would amount to any significant surge at any of the nearby ski areas.



You're wrong.  All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient.  They marketed into this area for years.  That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.

Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had.  I'm not writing it off yet.



			
				Geoff said:
			
		

> So tell us about all your Ascutney days.



Not sure what you're asking.  Family trips that included Ascutney, several high school trips, trips including Ascutney post college.  Ascutney can feel a little like Burke on a good snow day, narrow winding old style trails, low crowds, narrow trail pod for the vertical compared to layouts like Mt Snow and Stratton.  Far less snow and less reliable snow that the greens.  Perfect for the family that feels like they got run down like a dog at some nearby big resort and don't care about a shorter season.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Oct 28, 2010)

mister moose said:


> You're wrong.  All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient.  They marketed into this area for years.  That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.
> 
> Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had.  I'm not writing it off yet.
> 
> ...



Not talking about Condo owners (who I feel bad for), which last I checked were not in any great numbers.  When was the last condo built and how many?  I am talking about day skiers.  Perhaps in the past when ski areas were just that ski areas Ascutney grabed some of the 91 traffic, but I would guess most pass right by it for Okemo, Killington, or not make it that far north and hit up Stratton and Mt. Snow nowadays.


----------



## abc (Oct 28, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Perhaps in the past when ski areas were just that ski areas Ascutney grabed some of the 91 traffic, but I would guess most pass right by it for Okemo, Killington, or not make it that far north and hit up Stratton and Mt. Snow nowadays.


I don't think that assumption hold true.

Not every skier are families. Not every skiing trip involves hot tube and shopping in a "village". Random talks with people in the office reveals quite a few of them do ski for the sake of skiing! 

What you're confusing is the revenue generation with skier visit. There're a lot of skier who just buy a ticket and ski (and maybe buy lunch). Families who stay over for the whole weekend generates more revenue for the mountain so they're the more valuable target market. That's not to say they're even the majority of skier visits.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Oct 28, 2010)

abc said:


> I don't think that assumption hold true.
> 
> Not every skier are families. Not every skiing trip involves hot tube and shopping in a "village". Random talks with people in the office reveals quite a few of them do ski for the sake of skiing!
> 
> What you're confusing is the revenue generation with skier visit. There're a lot of skier who just buy a ticket and ski (and maybe buy lunch). Families who stay over for the whole weekend generates more revenue for the mountain so they're the more valuable target market. That's not to say they're even the majority of skier visits.



No not every skier is a family, no they don't all look for hot tubs and shopping in villages, but they do look for snow, lifts running, etc, of which Ascutney has done a very poor job doing, especially for an area that boasts only 150-180 inches of snow a year, which IMO is pushing it.  Also don't talk to me about people who ski/ride for the sake of skiing or riding, becuase I am one of them.  I have never considered Ascutney in the past 10 years of living in the UV and the last 2 years living 15 minutes away from the mountain.  I love to ride for the sake of riding and that is why I go to Killington, because I like snow natural or otherwise, plus they have a very reasonable blackout pass.  I believe Ascutney was 62 dollars last year, Killington and many others were 82 dollars.  I don't think the quality of surface/lifts/terrain is worth saving the extra 20 bucks.  Lets not forget, nobody really has the facts, it's just my opinion.

Just because Killington, Okemo, Stratton, Mt Snow offer the extras doesn't mean they don't offer a very good product for a true skier or rider.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Oct 28, 2010)

mister moose said:


> You're wrong.  All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient.  They marketed into this area for years.  That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.
> 
> Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had.  I'm not writing it off yet.
> 
> ...


----------



## threecy (Oct 29, 2010)

mister moose said:


> You're wrong.  All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient.  They marketed into this area for years.  That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.
> 
> Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had.  I'm not writing it off yet.



Huh?  How many people do you think Ascutney successfully pulled out of the I-91 corridor in Connecticut and Massachusetts?  If they were so successful with their years of marketing there that you suggest, why have they closed twice in the last two decades?


I'd also suggest that the last year Ascutney, Brodie, and Mt Tom all operated, Mt. Tom and Brodie had more skiing infrastructure and skier visits than Ascutney.


----------



## Geoff (Oct 29, 2010)

mister moose said:


> Not sure what you're asking.  Family trips that included Ascutney, several high school trips, trips including Ascutney post college.  Ascutney can feel a little like Burke on a good snow day, narrow winding old style trails, low crowds, narrow trail pod for the vertical compared to layouts like Mt Snow and Stratton.  Far less snow and less reliable snow that the greens.  Perfect for the family that feels like they got run down like a dog at some nearby big resort and don't care about a shorter season.



I was asking whether Ascutney was visible from the metro-Hartford area.   I've only ever heard descriptions of it from race parents when they had to go there for events and it wasn't very flattering.   I'm trying to understand if it has something compelling enough that somebody from Hartford would go there.   Your answer is clearly 'yes'.   Vermont doesn't have a heck of a lot of places left where you don't worry that your munchkin will get run down like a dog on a midwinter Saturday.


----------



## Mapnut (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm another I-91 skier who has driven past Ascutney many times and never stopped.  I knew its reputation for good terrain, but also for low snowfall, poor snowmaking and poor conditions.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 29, 2010)

Interesting fact: Ascutney is the second closest Vermont ski area from where I live currently and third closest to where I lived 3-5 years ago and I never made it down there. But I regularly drive twice as far to ski other mountains in VT.


----------



## whitemtn27 (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm in the same boat.  Ascutney is less than a half hour difference for me from Mt Snow/Stratton/Bromley/Magic and quite a bit less drive time than Killington.

But I've bought day tickets at those other 5 places regularly over the years, and never been to Ascutney.

Lay that one on the snowmaking budget, I guess.  Every time I thought of trying the place out, I read a bunch of TRs about awful conditions.  And nobody in the marketing department succeeded at convincing me to give them a shot anyway.


----------



## rocojerry (Oct 29, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting fact: Ascutney is the second closest Vermont ski area from where I live currently and third closest to where I lived 3-5 years ago and I never made it down there. But I regularly drive twice as far to ski other mountains in VT.




hike it steve, it's your kind of mountain....  terrain is unlike any in VT/NH/Maine.   This is the year to do it before it gets too overgrown.



From wikipedia:
Mount Ascutney is part of the White Mountain plutonic-volcanic series of igneous rocks. These rocks intruded from Triassic to Cretaceous time in southern Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont with the relatively young Ascutney pluton intruding at ~122 MA (K/Ar date on Biotite). The Ascutney pluton is about 8 km x 4 km in map area and intrudes Precambrian basement gneisses of the Chester dome and overlying Paleozoic metasedimentary rocks. The pluton emplacement is probably related to the formation of transform faults and/or fracture zones during (failed) Mesozoic rifting[2][3]. The petrology of the pluton consists of three socks which are gabbro-diortie, syenite and granite. There is also a partial ring dike and number of other dikes in the area[4].


----------



## mlctvt (Oct 29, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I honestly doubt that Ascutney skiers actually use I-91 or I-93.  The people that go to Ascutney are more likely to use Route 11, 131, 5, 12a and 120.  This would mean they would probably opt for Okemo or Sunapee as an alternative.  I doubt many people drive from Ct, Western Mass, NY to go to Ascutney.  I would guess that the people that typically go to Ascutney are from Claremont, Windsor, Weathersfield, Charleston, etc.  And with that I doubt the numbers that Ascutney got would amount to any significant surge at any of the nearby ski areas.



I know many people who live in CT who skied Ascutney because of the CT Ski council days. Although several who went last year or the year before told me they'd never go back due to the horrible conditions. 
I personally know over a dozen people who really enjoy the ski council days because they ski a bunch of different mountains throughout the year at great prices. 
The only reason I'm not a member is I own a place at Mount Snow.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 29, 2010)

rocojerry said:


> hike it steve, it's your kind of mountain....  terrain is unlike any in VT/NH/Maine.   This is the year to do it before it gets too overgrown.


That is the plan. If they get enough snow.... which is what generally kept me away in the past.


----------



## abc (Oct 29, 2010)

whitemtn27 said:


> I'm in the same boat.  Ascutney is less than a half hour difference for me from Mt Snow/Stratton/Bromley/Magic and quite a bit less drive time than Killington.
> 
> But I've bought day tickets at those other 5 places regularly over the years, and never been to Ascutney.
> 
> Lay that one on the snowmaking budget, I guess.  Every time I thought of trying the place out, I read a bunch of TRs about awful conditions.  And nobody in the marketing department succeeded at convincing me to give them a shot anyway.


I've never skied Ascutney depsite driven by it a few times. But it's got nothing to do with the condition...

I've simply not heard of Ascutney until I signed up on alpinezone!

Further more, up to about 2 years ago, I count myself as one of those "family skiers". Even though I don't have a family that skis,  I was nonetheless only interested in "big" mountains with a high trail counts. 

It wasn't until 2 years ago I saw a deal at Pico and gave it a try. It changed my perception of "smaller" areas! Since then, I've begun a slowly but surely "tour" of all the smaller, perhaps less well-groomed but definitely un-crowded mounatains. Ascutney was on my list but sadly I never got around to it before it closes.

I KNOW I'm not the only one who have that preference. In fact, I've steered a few of my co-workers towards some of these smaller gems and got good feed back. What I see as a shame is, mountains don't seem to be able to survive without putting a huge army of skiers on limited trails so they run each other over 3 times! So as much as I wanted to ski in a less-crowded place, they're slowing being driven out of business. 

Maybe lift-served skiing is just too expensive. Maybe I should just stick to x-c skiing!


----------



## billski (Oct 29, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting fact: Ascutney is the second closest Vermont ski area from where I live currently and third closest to where I lived 3-5 years ago and I never made it down there. But I regularly drive twice as far to ski other mountains in VT.


  I think there is a general problem with driving SOUTH.  I understand.  Your psychologist would understand.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 29, 2010)

billski said:


> I think there is a general problem with driving SOUTH.  I understand.  Your psychologist would understand.


I drove south to ski five times last year. Three of those times further south than Ascutney.


----------



## marcski (Oct 29, 2010)

I was only at ascutney one time when I was a kid in the 70's.  Like everyone else, I pass by it all the time and to be honest just have no desire or reason to go there.


----------



## billski (Oct 29, 2010)

I hear ya abc.  

Most small areas continue to operate uneventfully until they change hands.  Often they were the original owners.  the other characteristic is a PASSION for the sport.  The passionate owners FIND a way to survive, dammit!  I'll put Berkshire East and Black Mt. NH in that category for starters.  I'm happy to see Berkshire East is still in the family.

New owners are often burdened with such debt they are forced to move off of first base and "maximize the asset investment" instead of being focused on the sport.  

IMO, skiing is what you make of it.  You can have a lot of fun at a small area if you adjust your expectations and adjust your program to match the terrain.  Problem is, too many people drank the cool-aid and want a really low-stress, no surprise holiday.

It's too bad that on so many hills these days, you have to employ a "work the mountain" strategy to avoid crowds.  It sure is nice to show up at Black, any time, and simply call your shots anywhere you want, without a care in the world.

Bill



abc said:


> I've never skied Ascutney depsite driven by it a few times. But it's got nothing to do with the condition...
> 
> I've simply not heard of Ascutney until I signed up on alpinezone!
> 
> ...


----------



## billski (Oct 29, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I drove south to ski five times last year. Three of those times further south than Ascutney.


----------



## abc (Oct 29, 2010)

billski said:


> I Problem is, too many people drank the cool-aid and want a really low-stress, no surprise holiday.


Hahaha!

If I want a no-surprise holiday, I'd stay home and watch the grass grow!

OK, I'm an adrenalin junky. But aren't the majority of skiers too?


----------



## billski (Oct 29, 2010)

abc said:


> Hahaha!
> 
> If I want a no-surprise holiday, I'd stay home and watch the grass grow!
> 
> OK, I'm an adrenalin junky. But aren't the majority of skiers too?



You might be surprised.  People come at this sport for a whole myriad of reasons, only one of them be adrenalin.   I have never seen percentages, but the reasons vary considerably.  If that was not the case, why else would the Snow East survey end up the way it did?


----------



## x10003q (Oct 29, 2010)

billski said:


> It's too bad that on so many hills these days, you have to employ a "work the mountain" strategy to avoid crowds.  It sure is nice to show up at Black, any time, and simply call your shots anywhere you want, without a care in the world.
> 
> Bill



You really need to get over to Gore.


----------



## billski (Oct 29, 2010)

x10003q said:


> You really need to get over to Gore.


Yeah, I do.  At 4.5 hours from my house (farther than the 'Loaf), it's gonna have to be on a Superfecta tour though.  That tour will have to include Titus, Whiteface and some turns with Warp over at Tupper!


----------



## SteveInCT (Nov 2, 2010)

What a shame, but I guessed they were in trouble last year. I skied there twice last season and it cost me next to nothing. I found a deal on the deal thread last year for buy one get one and then it was discounted to 50% off.. so it was 2 lift passes for $31! I mean seriously, $15.50 a ticket right off the highway? I decided to try it. How could I not? I really liked the mountain and the pitch. The high speed lift was operating, there were no crowds or lift lines, and it was a weekend day both times. 

As some mentioned, the problem was snow-making. The mountain was not 100% open either time I went. Ok, the first time is the only one that counts because it was on Feb. 21 -- right in the middle of the season! The second time was on 3/21 and I was skiing in a tee shirt. To be fair, it was a very warm week and they closed up shortly after that visit. 

I hope someone purchases that mountain soon and puts some cash into the snow-making. If the lift sells, it will probably never come back from the dead. Too bad.


----------



## xwhaler (Nov 2, 2010)

Went to Ascutney a few yrs ago when they gave away a voucher with the Warren Miller movie. Prior to that I had never really given Ascutney any thought.
We had a lot of fun. The mtn had probably gotten 8" overnight and everything was open and hardly any grooming had taken place which I loved.

The quad was running, albeit very slowly. As others have mentioned the terrain is pretty legit in an unsuspecting way. Certainly, with improved snowmaking enough to get a consistent base down, the terrain is easily good enough to challenge even the best skiers out there.

The lodge was terribly outdated but the village area with on-mtn condos seemd like a good place to bring a family who didn't want to pay inflated prices for a ski vacation reative to okemo, stratton, etc.

I really think the issue is marketing here. Beyond the snowmaking which I think is somewhat subjective and variable depending on who you talk to, it really comes down to marketing.

How many ppl in this thread have simply stated that they hadn;t heard of Ascutney or had reason to visit?
Yet we all mention the terrain is good, the crowds are low and the tickets are less than some of the local competition.
I think it comes down to awareness.....Ascutney could do well to market themselves as a viable alternative to the more expensive crowded 'mc-resorts' but I think more importantly, could start to play up the terrain among more hardcore skiiers.

I liked my visit there and do think, if marketed properly, can get past some of the fixed issues (lack of snowfall, local competition) etc that they can't control.


----------



## billski (Nov 2, 2010)

For good or bad, I think Magic may benefit from the no-op Ascutney status.  Specifically for those on a budget with no need for a full "spa resort" experience.


----------



## jrmagic (Nov 2, 2010)

abc said:


> What I see as a shame is, mountains don't seem to be able to survive without putting a huge army of skiers on limited trails so they run each other over 3 times! So as much as I wanted to ski in a less-crowded place, they're slowing being driven out of business.
> 
> Maybe lift-served skiing is just too expensive. Maybe I should just stick to x-c skiing!



I don't that is entirely correct. Yes skier visits are important but if you have good maangement that hs a plan and carefully manages expenses , a smaller mountain can survive and not be overly crowded. Magic is a good example. They cut their schedule to  operate on holiday weeks, Friday through Monday for non holiday periods and mid week powder days and they spent this expected savings  on making more snow early  in the season and during the season. As a result they had a better product on the mountian and a nice increase in skier visits and the mountian is still not crowded at all.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2010)

*Confirmation that Ascutney will not open and that the owner is trying to scrap the area and sell the lifts.*


----------



## killtoski (Nov 28, 2010)

I probably skied 50 days here over the years, before and after the HSQ, I'm a second homeowner and had a house in Chester, VT at the time.  Had a couple of season passes here when they were like $300 and I'd buy additional discount tickets at Okemo & Killington. It was a good area when I had friends up because they could ski there cheap and stay together. The kids or beginners could just stay on the lower lift.  The trails were pretty steep and windy, similar to Magic in many ways.  I feel this area is way more viable then Magic, better lift, better lodge, better parking, better snowmaking (Magic barley has any)  but conditions here are usually firm. When I bought that house, I could have purchased Magic Mtn for about $200K.  The new HSQ never really opened up much new terrain and you'd get off the lift and it would be just a sheet of ice until you got down a few 100 vertical.  This expense is probably what did the area in, they should have just kept the old lift and kept the ticket prices low, I figure the HSQ and marketing added at least $10 to the ticket price and most times they ran the lift slow, don't forget they also had to bring the snowmaking further up. I think money spent on better snowmaking and grooming would have been money better spent, and kept them out of debt.  I had more vertical than anything in MA, CT, NJ, PA and most NY areas. Its a shame, I haven't been there in about 5-6 years, but even if they were still open, I probably wouldn't go back, there are just so many better choices for the same or less drive. They figured they could make a transformation like Okemo did, maybe the Mullers' should pick up the pieces.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 16, 2011)

Bump.  

Looks like the HSQ is staying.  For now.  Might make it a better resort to lease/buy?  Still time for this coming season....


----------



## wa-loaf (Jun 16, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Bump.
> 
> Looks like the HSQ is staying.  For now.  Might make it a better resort to lease/buy?  Still time for this coming season....



So where's Burke getting their lift from?


----------



## Masskier (Jun 16, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> So where's Burke getting their lift from?



They are buying new from Leitner-Poma.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jun 16, 2011)

Masskier said:


> They are buying new from Leitner-Poma.



ah, must have missed that somewhere. wasn't following that closely.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 16, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> ah, must have missed that somewhere. wasn't following that closely.


 
You haven't missed anything as Burke has not said a word and we are only kicking around second-hand information in the Burke thread.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2011)

Any new developments here?


----------



## billski (Aug 2, 2011)

UCE EDWARDS
Staff Writer - Published: July 8, 2011

Ascutney Mountain Resort's high-speed quad won't find a new home at Burke Mountain.

Tim McGuire, Burke Mountain vice president and general manager, said in an email Friday that the northern Vermont resort is not interested in purchasing the chairlift at the defunct West Windsor ski area. 

Financial problems forced Ascutney to close after the 2009-2010 ski season. Steven and Susan Plausteiner, Ascutney's former owners, and Dan Purjes, the resort's major creditor, are engaged in a lengthy legal battle in civil court in Windsor County.

A lawyer involved in the case said the court in March gave the go-ahead to sell the 6,000-foot long lift for $1.55 million. 

Burke Mountain had expressed interest in buying the lift. But in addition to the sale price, the purchase would require the buying ski area to pay for the dismantling, transportation and reinstallation of the lift.

McGuire said previously that a new high-speed quad would cost between $5 million and $6 million.

In his email, McGuire said the resort is planning "many improvements" for the summer but he did not say whether those plans include a high-speed lift. 

In an interview in May, McGuire said putting in a high-speed quad was a priority for the resort. In April, Burke received an Act 250 land use permit for the project. He said a high-speed lift would reduce travel time to the summit from 12 to 14 minutes, down to six minutes.

The loss of Ascutney's high-speed quad would make it more difficult to sell the resort, a ski industry official has said, leaving the resort with no access to the summit. Ascutney, one of the state's smaller ski areas, has 57 trails and five lifts.

source:  http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20110708/THISJUSTIN/110709967


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2011)

So I wonder if this signals that Ascutney will reopen?


----------



## orangegondola (Aug 2, 2011)

I was in brownsville this weekend.  Local group close to a deal apparently.  Quad need a ton of work.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2011)

orangegondola said:


> I was in brownsville this weekend. Local group close to a deal apparently. Quad need a ton of work.


 
Good to hear that they may reopen.  Bad that the lift is in such bad shape.  

Still remains the only ski area with a HSQ to join NELSAP.


----------



## jaytrem (Aug 2, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Good to hear that they may reopen.  Bad that the lift is in such bad shape.
> 
> Still remains the only ski area with a HSQ to join NELSAP.



Is it the only North American ski area with a HSQ to join any LSAP?  Could be some in the Midwest or Eastern Canada?


----------



## millerm277 (Aug 2, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Good to hear that they may reopen.  Bad that the lift is in such bad shape.



IIRC it was never in "good shape". I seem to recall it was never installed correctly, and needed some type of work to actually run at the proper speed (sensors?), so it only ran <800fpm.

Perhaps someone who knows the area a bit better can elaborate.


----------



## bobbutts (Aug 3, 2011)

it was running fast when I visited a few years ago.. more recent return visit it was slow and then died during the day
I don't think it was always broken.


----------



## billski (Aug 4, 2011)

for something so new it 
must have suffered from serious maintenance neglect.


----------



## thetrailboss (Aug 4, 2011)

billski said:


> for something so new it
> must have suffered from serious maintenance neglect.


 
That, plus as alluded to, when CTEC installed it the Plausteiners did not have enough $$$ to bring the lift up to code by adding the state mandated sensors to allow it to run at full speed.  So CTEC basically got it operational and left it.  I have heard from multiple folks that it never ran full speed (except a few times as one person said above).  Add to it that it has sat idle for the last year or so.  As you know in the summer and off-season resorts need to remove chairs from the line and they rotate which chairs come off.  They also have to adjust the splicing in the cable.  So if that has not been done since late 2009 then the lift may not be in good shape now.


----------



## thetrailboss (Dec 6, 2011)

Any updates as to Ascutney's plight?


----------



## mister moose (Feb 21, 2012)

I rode up the lift with someone who owns a condo there.  They told me:

1)  Holiday Inn, who owns the hotel, has bought most of the non mountain remaning real estate.
2)  The parent company of Holiday Inn, a Florida company, has zero interest in operating or owning the mountain.
3)  The HSQ has been sold to a smallish NH mountain.  They couldn't remember the resort name.
4)  All the condo owners, not surprisingly, are skiing Killington and Okemo.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 21, 2012)

mister moose said:


> I rode up the lift with someone who owns a condo there.  They told me:
> 
> 1)  Holiday Inn, who owns the hotel, has bought most of the non mountain remaning real estate.
> 2)  The parent company of Holiday Inn, a Florida company, has zero interest in operating or owning the mountain.
> ...



#3 - confirmed - Peak Resorts bought the HSQ and it will be installed at Crotched Mtn this summer - unconfirmed, it will be called the "crotch rocket!" Lol!


----------



## skidmarks (Feb 22, 2012)

drjeff said:


> #3 - confirmed - Peak Resorts bought the HSQ and it will be installed at Crotched Mtn this summer - unconfirmed, it will be called the "crotch rocket!" Lol!



This could be cool! I was stuck on that lift years back and had to be evacuated. At the time they said the transmission blew. 

I wonder if I can ride the same Quad at Crotched next year and get evac-ed from it??


----------



## dangerous (Mar 8, 2012)

selling of the HSQ certainly seals the fate of the mountain.  Never opening again.


----------



## riverc0il (Mar 8, 2012)

dangerous said:


> selling of the HSQ certainly seals the fate of the mountain.  Never opening again.


Not the case at all. The HSQ often didn't run when the mountain was open and it only services a very small amount of terrain that the triple doesn't. They wouldn't be the first area to abandon upper mountain challenging terrain for a lower option (Killington did this). If anything, the reduced cost of buying the area without the HSQ might make the mountain a more likely purchase option for investors.


----------



## mountainman (Mar 8, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Not the case at all. The HSQ often didn't run when the mountain was open and it only services a very small amount of terrain that the triple doesn't. They wouldn't be the first area to abandon upper mountain challenging terrain for a lower option (Killington did this). If anything, the reduced cost of buying the area without the HSQ might make the mountain a more likely purchase option for investors.



The Quad never ran at full speed and was never installed correctly to run at full speed. The fastest it could ran was 600 fpm. The Triple ran at 450 - 500 fpm. This will not hurt Ascutney not having this lift. The only thing that will hurt Ascutney is not opening again. .


----------



## noreasterbackcountry (Mar 8, 2012)

Ascutney has a pretty extensive network of mountain biking trails. I feel like there's an opportunity to build a year-round action sports playground like KT/Burke that's an hour closer to NY/CT/Western MA.


----------



## abc (Mar 8, 2012)

noreasterbackcountry said:


> Ascutney has a pretty extensive network of mountain biking trails. I feel like there's an opportunity to build a year-round action sports playground like KT/Burke that's an hour closer to NY/CT/Western MA.


Nah, I doubt it'll fly. 

There's already Killington and Mt. Snow. And for NY/CT riders, there's Jiminy Peak, which is exactly in Western MA. Highland in NH, pretty much cap the lift served downhill market for the area around mid-VT/NH.


----------

