# Powder days...are you worthy?



## hammer (Jan 27, 2009)

The recent storm discussion has me thinking...why is it that so many people flock to ski areas after a dump only to realize that they can't ski in powder?

I don't have any real powder skills, but at least I know before I head out on a powder day that it will be tougher (and maybe even more frustrating) to ski.


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## gmcunni (Jan 27, 2009)

i know i can't ski powder great but still want to go. you don't get better at it just sitting home.


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## severine (Jan 27, 2009)

I am useless in more than a couple-few inches of fresh snow. Good thing I don't get priority pick on powder days.


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## St. Bear (Jan 27, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i know i can't ski powder great but still want to go. you don't get better at it just sitting home.



Amen, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

I planned a trip to Wildcat last year and got lucky with a powder day, over 12" the night before.  It was the hardest and most humbling ski experience of my life, and I had the most fun I've ever had on a ski mountain.


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## ozzy (Jan 27, 2009)

Once you figure out the two footed weigh distrubution thing on wide skis that is very different than skiing groomed or moguls or trees you'll be happier and addicted too no doubt
I mean I love skiing bumps, cruising and groomers re fun, but to me powder is the crem de la crem.
One of my favorite parts about it how silent it is


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## prisnah (Jan 27, 2009)

Skiing pow is supposed to be hard? :roll:

So I guess that's why near every hill in the east feels like they're obligated to groom everything they can ASAP after a dump. 

Seriously though, powder day's do seem to bring out a lot of people who are just terrible skiers. 

If you can't ski the hell out of a groomer on your old straight sticks and rear entry boots do ya really think you'll perform better in deep snow? Stop scraping off all the goods dood!




Nah...everyone's gotta start somewhere, might as well fall in soft snow.:razz:


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## thorski (Jan 27, 2009)

Stop being cheap and buy FAT skis for powder and you won't suck.


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## billski (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm getting better each time out.  I have more fun in the pow, I don't mind falling, there are fewer injuries on a pow day.  I enjoy the scenery, the drive, the blasting through the woods with face shots and tree avalanches on my head.

 I picked up a pair of midfats that are "all season tire" midground sticks.  

I DO mind not finding my skis after I fall, and I love the silence of skiing without scrape-scratch-scrape sounds.  

I don't mind if the newbies fall, I just get that far ahead of them.   I enjoy it best day after the storm, when the sun comes out.

I snicker to myself when  folks complain "there's too much snow"


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## drjeff (Jan 27, 2009)

SOOOOOOOO many people who flock to a hill on a powder day would be SOOOOOOOO much happier if they waited 24 hours and were looking at a hill filled with soft cord and chopped up powder IMHO.  The average skier just can't handle more than a few inches of fluff because a) its tiring a frustrating for them to ski it and b) by late day many runs are bumped up which is tiring and frustrating for them to ski


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 27, 2009)

working out logistics now to head up tonight to hit stratton (free tix from warren miller)

Sugar Daddies are tuned and ready to go (99 waist) these things absolulty float in pow....you have to dance with Pow, not fight it like everyone is used to doing in icy/hardpack conditions.....you also need to ski faster which freaks out some...


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## hardline (Jan 27, 2009)

i love powder and on a a board its is just a match made in heaven but i also have no problem going out and rippin turns on a non powder day. hell i spend 1/3 my season at the creek


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## Geoff (Jan 27, 2009)

I've been skiing powder since the skinny ski days.  It sure is a heck of a lot easier on fat skis since you no longer have to do that big unweight on every turn.


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## faceplant (Jan 27, 2009)

pow in the east is heavier wetter- more dense- tuf stuff, aint western champaign.  Plus the areas are smaller then out west so it gets tracked out fast- so the virgin pow disapears quick- so your goin from virgin to tracks to virgin & back again- a balancin act.  Them westerners are spoiled by there sissy snow- i'd like to see em come try to ski some catskill crud.  that bein said- 2 sundays ago we got first tracks in boot deep pow rippin through it & leavin a cloud behind- felt like a spoiled westerner. Not gonna add to the good advice alredy here exept to say i keep my toes up & go fast i keep my toes up & go fast


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## bvibert (Jan 27, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i know i can't ski powder great but still want to go. you don't get better at it just sitting home.



+2


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## ctenidae (Jan 27, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i know i can't ski powder great but still want to go. you don't get better at it just sitting home.



+3


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## Marc (Jan 27, 2009)

Powder is way to hard too ski, trust me.

Stay home, it isn't worth it.


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## Johnskiismore (Jan 27, 2009)

It is funny that so many people who cannot ski eastern powder are out there.  I've seen riders and skiers literally bury themselves in snow not being able to move.  It is true, if they would wait until the next day they would like it much better.  

I know a few people who do just that.  Personally I like the POW!


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## bvibert (Jan 27, 2009)

uphillklimber said:


> One thing that we do is slow way down.



I'm no expert by any means, but one thing I've found is that powder is way easier and more fun if you open up and let em rip a bit.  Get too slow and turny and it's way more work then it has to be.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2009)

Powder is no different than any other aspect of skiing, it takes practice and the right equipment can make a world of difference.  I can ski powder fine on skinnier skis, but it's a lot better on the fat boards.  ....better run for cover from Creeky knees :lol:

I actually find that outside of certain mountains that attract expert skiers (northern new england areas) that the mountains tend to be less busy on Powder days.  That was always the case growing up skiing Okemo.


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## Geoff (Jan 27, 2009)

Johnskiismore said:


> It is funny that so many people who cannot ski eastern powder are out there.  I've seen riders and skiers literally bury themselves in snow not being able to move.  It is true, if they would wait until the next day they would like it much better.
> 
> I know a few people who do just that.  Personally I like the POW!



"Eastern Powder".  Meh.  I can remember skiing thigh deep cement at Whistler in the pouring r@in back in the late 1980's.  I'll take "eastern powder" any day over that condition.

I got competent skiing powder in 1998-1999 when I hit a lot of it on a bunch of west trips.  I'd taken that winter off and probably had 50 powder days.  Here's heli-skiing in 1999 in New Zealand in a continuation of that extended break.  I was on Salomon X-Mountains.  78mm waist straight skis.


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## atkinson (Jan 27, 2009)

Today in the Mad River Valley. 

You can enjoy non-western powder in VT, NY, QC, NH and ME, or boldly claim that we don't get good pow and sit home while it dumps. Sometimes the stuff that falls here is super airy light. The deepest snow I've ever skied has been in VT and QC, despite multiple trips west that nailed sweet storm cycles. 

Enjoy it when it's here!

John





Sugarbush 03/2008


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## Paul (Jan 27, 2009)

thorski said:


> Stop being cheap and buy FAT skis for powder and you won't suck.



I love you


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## Smellytele (Jan 27, 2009)

On teleskis skiing powder is actually easier for me then skiing groomers. Powder equals more friction. I don't like a fresh dump of cement though. That isn't much fun either nor is it powder.


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## icedtea (Jan 27, 2009)

love the pow wow.... go bigger in the pow wow!!!


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## RootDKJ (Jan 27, 2009)

It takes me a run or two to get comfortable on my "pow legs".  On the rare occasion there's a actual powder day in PA, I'll generally do as drjeff suggests and wait it out.NJ/PA really suck at plowing/salting/sanding and clearing roads.  I can remember last year it took me over 3 hours to attempt to get out to Blue, only to find out that PA closed down 78 and then another 2 hours to get back home.
If I'm on vacation in NY or VT, well then I just have to go and enjoy it.  I'm pretty ok so long as it doesn't get really bumped up, since I have zero mogul skills.  It takes some getting used to. I can't stand skiing in cement "powder"


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## riverc0il (Jan 27, 2009)

I will take a shot at that question. Groomer skiers are sick and tired of skiing frozen groomer tracks... the prospect of groomed "packed" powder is an extremely alluring proposition. Which is why at most "resorts" you are likely to see at least 50% grooming even on a powder day. Even at "skier's mountains", at least 1/3 grooming is very typical, even on a powder day.


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## icedtea (Jan 27, 2009)

I wouldn't consider those who would rather ski groomed than fresh pow real skiers.


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## RootDKJ (Jan 27, 2009)

icedtea said:


> I wouldn't consider those who would rather ski groomed than fresh pow real skiers.


yeah and...?


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## icedtea (Jan 27, 2009)

no and... just sad.


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## faceplant (Jan 27, 2009)

atkinson said:


> Today in the Mad River Valley.
> 
> You can enjoy non-western powder in VT, NY, QC, NH and ME, or boldly claim that we don't get good pow and sit home while it dumps. Sometimes the stuff that falls here is super airy light. The deepest snow I've ever skied has been in VT and QC, despite multiple trips west that nailed sweet storm cycles.
> 
> ...



must be sweet livin up where its so cold your pows lite-  i am jealous- if ya get a chance stop by & try some catskill crud- gives a whole diffrent perspective-  then again why the heck would ya??


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## mondeo (Jan 27, 2009)

I'll ski the day after. It's when the bumps are at their peak. Part of it also has to do with the fact that I only have bump skis. I can ski 6" on a good base fine, but 2' on no base is a pain. Actually, it's an odd mix of awesomeness and frustration. It doesn't help that I'm in crappy shape.

I am looking for some powder boards, though, just need to find a powder day to demo some. I'd be happy with a 2 ski quiver, one skinny as possible and the other fat. Figure fat skis will have me hunting the deep stuff more.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I'll ski the day after. It's when the bumps are at their peak.



disagree

I'll take them day of storm, troughs refreshing all day, never know what can happen overnight with weather. Powder bumps day of is where it's at.


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## bvibert (Jan 27, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> disagree
> 
> I'll take them day of storm, troughs refreshing all day, never know what can happen overnight with weather. Powder bumps day of is where it's at.



As long as they groom the small to medium half pipe I'm happy.


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## severine (Jan 27, 2009)

Are we really going to get into the who's a real skier crap again? :roll: Do we need to take the rulers out, too? :roll:


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 27, 2009)

severine said:


> Do we need to take the rulers out, too? :roll:



I need a yard stick!


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## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2009)

bvibert said:


> As long as they groom the small to medium half pipe I'm happy.



low angle dumper airs out of the pipe are pretty rad, have to agree with you there


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## wa-loaf (Jan 27, 2009)

Yes. I am worthy. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!


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## mondeo (Jan 27, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> disagree
> 
> I'll take them day of storm, troughs refreshing all day, never know what can happen overnight with weather. Powder bumps day of is where it's at.


Yeah, but if the snow comes during the day I don't particularly consider it a powder day. Looking at it from the perspective of 8" by the time it opens, or the day after 8"+. 3-4" to start with it and dumping, just light enough that you can still see decently, throughout the day is pretty sweet too.


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## mondeo (Jan 27, 2009)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I need a yard stick!


Pfft...


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## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Yeah, but if the snow comes during the day I don't particularly consider it a powder day. Looking at it from the perspective of 8" by the time it opens, or the day after 8"+. 3-4" to start with it and dumping, just light enough that you can still see decently, throughout the day is pretty sweet too.



for whatever reason, I've found the conditions you're talking about to be a bit rare in the east.  In my years it seems that the best powder days I've had have occurred skiing the day of the storm when it's dumping hard, not the day after an evening of heavy snow.  The big evening snowfall followed by bluebird day seems to occur much more often out west.  

guess it's just semantics really though.  8" of fresh snow does wonders for a mogul field no matter whether your skiing through the storm or the day after


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## Greg (Jan 27, 2009)

prisnah said:


> Skiing pow is supposed to be hard? :roll:



Agreed! I've never found powder to be all that difficult and I don't have a ton of experience with it.  Let them run and take bigger round turns. It takes me an hour or so to adjust to not taking short turns and then I'm fine.


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## hardline (Jan 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> for whatever reason, I've found the conditions you're talking about to be a bit rare in the east.  In my years it seems that the best powder days I've had have occurred skiing the day of the storm when it's dumping hard, not the day after an evening of heavy snow.  The big evening snowfall followed by bluebird day seems to occur much more often out west.
> 
> guess it's just semantics really though.  8" of fresh snow does wonders for a mogul field no matter whether your skiing through the storm or the day after



you know i never really thought about it but i would guess 95% of my powder days are storm skiing on the east coast. which is why trees are so popular on the east coast. nothing like being above tree line in a storm and having no idea where you are. when i was in CO i really missed my storm sessions in the east.


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## Euler (Jan 28, 2009)

I floudered a LOT last year, partly because was I a newbie to powder, I was also on really short (160) carving skis.  This year, between having more practice in varied conditions and having 180 skis, still carving skis though, I've felt much more comfortable on powder days.  Problem is, while I love powder, my wife hates it, so it does breed a bit of tension.


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## hammer (Jan 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I will take a shot at that question. Groomer skiers are sick and tired of skiing frozen groomer tracks... the prospect of groomed "packed" powder is an extremely alluring proposition. Which is why at most "resorts" you are likely to see at least 50% grooming even on a powder day. Even at "skier's mountains", at least 1/3 grooming is very typical, even on a powder day.


I actually agree with this approach, as long as they limit the grooming to the novice (and maybe a few intermediate) trails.

My first experience with a "powder day" was at Pats Peak last season...there was very little untracked on the trails, but there were plenty of powder bumps to play around in.  The skiing was actually quite frustrating, but it did leave we wanting to go out again...

I'm fine with people who go on a powder day with limited powder skills who know that it could be an "adjustment" to ski in.  I think that the average recreational skier, however, would have a much better time if he/she waited for a few days of grooming after a storm.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jan 28, 2009)

hammer said:


> The recent storm discussion has me thinking...why is it that so many people flock to ski areas after a dump only to realize that they can't ski in powder?
> 
> I don't have any real powder skills, but at least I know before I head out on a powder day that it will be tougher (and maybe even more frustrating) to ski.



For me skiing powder is like riding a bike..once you become competent in powder you always are..and it seems like on east coast powder days, alot of people ski right down the middlle of the trails where it's skied off..I'm all about finding the tight nooks and crannies.


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## JD (Jan 28, 2009)

Powder!!!!!


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## frozencorn (Jan 28, 2009)

JD said:


> Powder!!!!!



This is the most accurate statement in this thread.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Jan 28, 2009)

hammer said:


> The recent storm discussion has me thinking...why is it that so many people flock to ski areas after a dump only to realize that they can't ski in powder?



Good observation. I think it's a "That's what the cool kids do" thing. 

Plus, people hear good things about it and they want to learn how so they can enjoy it too.

At first it's a quads burning sweat dripping experience. Once you get it it's all worth it.

Fat is where it's at to get there faster.


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## ta&idaho (Jan 28, 2009)

faceplant said:


> pow in the east is heavier wetter- more dense- tuf stuff, aint western champaign.  Plus the areas are smaller then out west so it gets tracked out fast- so the virgin pow disapears quick- so your goin from virgin to tracks to virgin & back again- a balancin act.  Them westerners are spoiled by there sissy snow- i'd like to see em come try to ski some catskill crud.  that bein said- 2 sundays ago we got first tracks in boot deep pow rippin through it & leavin a cloud behind- felt like a spoiled westerner. Not gonna add to the good advice alredy here exept to say i keep my toes up & go fast i keep my toes up & go fast



wetter/heavier snow is a weak excuse unless you're talking about multiple feet of truly wet, sierra/pnw cement

that said, i'm happy to oblige if you're really interested in watching a "sissy" westerner "try" to ski some of your so-called "catskill crud" ;-)


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## bigbog (Jan 28, 2009)

*...*



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> .....I'm all about finding the tight nooks and crannies.


Agreed, and one can keep on going in most any direction once it attains some depth = no need to arc bigtime.  Instead go with the flow.
Just head for the openings.
*Euler*, grab something wider and maybe a little longer = float.

$.01


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## campgottagopee (Jan 28, 2009)

icedtea said:


> I wouldn't consider those who would rather ski groomed than fresh pow real skiers.



Easy there big fella--I know of a few dudes in their 70's who ARE awesome skiers just don't like the POW because it shortens their day on the slopes.


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## RootDKJ (Jan 28, 2009)

severine said:


> Are we really going to get into the who's a real skier crap again? :roll: Do we need to take the rulers out, too? :roll:


I almost took the bait, but decided to take the high road.


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## JD (Jan 28, 2009)

Anyone who skis is a real skier.  And yes, we are all worthy of pow days.


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## cbcbd (Jan 28, 2009)

I second JD...

Powder!!!

Powder + Trees!!!




campgottagopee said:


> Easy there big fella--I know of a few dudes in their 70's who ARE awesome skiers just don't like the POW because it shortens their day on the slopes.


Shortens? How could you want to leave the slopes on a powder day?


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## bvibert (Jan 28, 2009)

cbcbd said:


> Shortens? How could you want to leave the slopes on a powder day?



Something tells me that once you get into your 70's it's more a matter of _needing_ to leave than _wanting_ to leave.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 28, 2009)

cbcbd said:


> I second JD...
> 
> Powder!!!
> 
> ...



I'm sure when your 75 you'll figure it out too


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## icedtea (Jan 28, 2009)

1 run in fresh pow beats 5 runs on groomed IMO


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## cbcbd (Jan 28, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I'm sure when your 75 you'll figure it out too


Of course I get that we all get old and body parts don't work like they used to, yada yada yada...

But, I find that I use a lot more leg strength and also feel a lot more impact on my joints when I'm skiing through crud, groomers, bumps, etc. In non-powder I find that I have to adjust to the terrain a lot more with my legs with constant compression... throw in some chattery icy conditions and now you're jackhammering your legs. That gets tiring.  

In the powder I'm still using lots of leg (probably too because I go into the trees and that requires lots of turning), but I can scrub speed a lot easier and with less effort. Powder skiing is just easier on the body.

So... no, I don't get how you can ski a longer day on crud vs powder.

Now... are these 75 year olds trying to ski powder on 210 skinnies?


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## tjf67 (Jan 28, 2009)

cbcbd said:


> Of course I get that we all get old and body parts don't work like they used to, yada yada yada...
> 
> But, I find that I use a lot more leg strength and also feel a lot more impact on my joints when I'm skiing through crud, groomers, bumps, etc. In non-powder I find that I have to adjust to the terrain a lot more with my legs with constant compression... throw in some chattery icy conditions and now you're jackhammering your legs. That gets tiring.
> 
> ...




You are out of your chicken.   Not that I know what powder skiing is like.  We never see powder at whiteface mountain


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## deadheadskier (Jan 28, 2009)

cbcbd said:


> So... no, I don't get how you can ski a longer day on crud vs powder.



That's debateable for sure

I definitely think you can ski a longer day on groomers than powder though.  Far less tiring as you can slack off more on groomers than you can in pow.


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## campgottagopee (Jan 28, 2009)

cbcbd said:


> Of course I get that we all get old and body parts don't work like they used to, yada yada yada...
> 
> But, I find that I use a lot more leg strength and also feel a lot more impact on my joints when I'm skiing through crud, groomers, bumps, etc. In non-powder I find that I have to adjust to the terrain a lot more with my legs with constant compression... throw in some chattery icy conditions and now you're jackhammering your legs. That gets tiring.
> 
> ...




I know what you mean 

And yes, some of the guys have equiptment as old asthey are.


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## Johnskiismore (Jan 28, 2009)

For tomorrow hell yeah!  :beer::beer:


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## JD (Jan 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> That's debateable for sure
> 
> I definitely think you can ski a longer day on groomers than powder though.  Far less tiring as you can slack off more on groomers than you can in pow.



Powder can be a farm field, hellbrook, and everything in between.  In good powder, skiing is as casual as skiing a green circle groomer.


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## billski (Jan 28, 2009)

For every skier and boarder on this forum, and those I've known through the years, each and every  one has their own peculiar likes and dislikes, strengths and weaknesses.  We're all not good at everything and all not interested in everything.  While the non-snow-lovers tend to lump us all together, when you look under the hood, I find it's really hard to seriously stereotype any of us.  The reason we can ski and board together, is that we all tend to adjust our own comfort level to that of a group.


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## BigJay (Jan 28, 2009)

bigbog said:


> *Euler*, grab something wider and maybe a little longer = float.
> 
> $.01



Agreed. Try a snowboard... A burton FISH is the sweetest thing... floats like crazy and rides like a dream... If you need longer, my 171cm splitboard might do the trick...

Or you can try the "snowboard simulator"... AKA 120mm fat skis!
8)


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## tjf67 (Jan 28, 2009)

BigJay said:


> Agreed. Try a snowboard... A burton FISH is the sweetest thing... floats like crazy and rides like a dream... If you need longer, my 171cm splitboard might do the trick...
> 
> Or you can try the "snowboard simulator"... AKA 120mm fat skis!
> 8)



BaHAHA 120MM FAT SKIES


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 28, 2009)

JD said:


> Powder!!!!!









8):dunce:


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## KingM (Jan 28, 2009)

I have a level I'm comfortable in. Today, for example, in fresh 6-8 inches with continually refreshing conditions, I can't imagine enjoying skiing more. My perfect day is a day with heavy snow, no wind, 4-5 when I start and just skiing down Birch Run and Sunrise at Sugarbush again and again and again, with occasional dips into Sleeper and Deeper Sleeper. I love it.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jan 29, 2009)

thorski said:


> Stop being cheap and buy FAT skis for powder and you won't suck.



I skied powder fine on my old Pre Skis..but fat skis rule..this trip to Jackson is the first time I'm on my NOrdica blowers at 110mm underfoot and they rock hardcore..they're especially good in piles of cut up powder..nothing like straightlining powder or making huge GS turns in it..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jan 29, 2009)

faceplant said:


> pow in the east is heavier wetter- more dense- tuf stuff, aint western champaign.  Plus the areas are smaller then out west so it gets tracked out fast- so the virgin pow disapears quick- so your goin from virgin to tracks to virgin & back again- a balancin act.  Them westerners are spoiled by there sissy snow- i'd like to see em come try to ski some catskill crud.  that bein said- 2 sundays ago we got first tracks in boot deep pow rippin through it & leavin a cloud behind- felt like a spoiled westerner. Not gonna add to the good advice alredy here exept to say i keep my toes up & go fast i keep my toes up & go fast



I've skied some really nasty crud and windslab in the west..it's not always light and dry blower in the west....but right now it's sa weet//


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## tirolerpeter (Jan 29, 2009)

Except for the very rare day when the snow is (relatively) light and fluffy, eastern powder simply packs down way too quickly for anyone who has limited access to skiing to master and actually begin to enjoy it.  It also wants to grab your tails unless you put extra effort to get them around in a turn.  In all the years I skied in the east I too looked forward to "powder dumps" but struggled to ski it and expended much energy in doing so.   Skiing well enough to enjoy any and all conditions requires spending time on the slopes.  Many easterners simply don't have the luxury to invest that time.  Limited snow events, family committments, work, and travel time to the slopes create time limitations that reduce the ability to work on skiing powder.   I'm in my second full season here in UT (Ain't retirement great?).  A combination of fatter skis (110mm waist) and numerous low moisture powder dumps have given me the opportunity to really learn to enjoy powder.  It sounds like a cliche but I'm addicted to "steep and deep" now!   I now find that the width of my skis is actually starting to matter less and less.   Once you get comfortable in the soft stuff, you find that it is skiable regardless of your ski width.  Of course, the wider the ski, the easier (and more enjoyable) it is to ski the truly deep stuff.  As to age and effort....I see (and often ski with) "older" men and women in their 70's who float through the "Pow" with great abandon.  I say "older" because I am 62.  Once you master it, the effort level in powder drops below that needed to rip around on the scratchy packed hard stuff!   I hope you all get some great powder days this season and get a chance to work on enjoying it when they happen.  In the meantime, you are all welcome to contact me any time you get a chance to come west to spend some time on my "home turf" in LCC.


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## BigJay (Jan 29, 2009)

See, i went west only once... Do i miss it... Kind of... But the east coast as great snow if you're willing to earn it... I always get good snow in the backcountry after the resorts are scraped off... Up here i think snow is as reliable as out west... And the trees help keeping people away from it... Heck, we were riding in almost waist deep snow last weekend... 15mins from home... Do i need to go out west to get that... Nope! I'll go out west this spring for mountain biking... Dirt is reliable in the desert...


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## tirolerpeter (Jan 29, 2009)

BigJay said:


> See, i went west only once... Do i miss it... Kind of... But the east coast as great snow if you're willing to earn it... I always get good snow in the backcountry after the resorts are scraped off... Up here i think snow is as reliable as out west... And the trees help keeping people away from it... Heck, we were riding in almost waist deep snow last weekend... 15mins from home... Do i need to go out west to get that... Nope! I'll go out west this spring for mountain biking... Dirt is reliable in the desert...



I can understand your point of view since you live near Jay Peak and have easy access to powder.  Most eastern skiers who live far from places like Jay just don't get the opportunities to ski powder they way you do.   In fact, since I lived on Long Island, Jay was a monumental effort to get to.  The two times I tried to ski it I got stopped.  The first involved two days of "wind hold."  Luckily, we then discovered Mt Sutton and Owlshead up in Canada.  The second try involved "wind hold" coupled with -15 degree temps.  They had one green trail lift open!  We bailed on a two night stay and went south to "balmier" Killington.  It was just too hard to consistently score decent powder from a distance for guys living in the NY metro area.


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## soulseller (Jan 29, 2009)

I just got 3 powder days in a row at Mammoth/June. Wasn't always pretty but it was always fun.


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## gmcunni (Feb 1, 2009)

confirmed - NO.

tried deep untracked powder in the woods @ magic, failed miserably


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## bvibert (Feb 2, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> confirmed - NO.
> 
> tried deep untracked powder in the woods @ magic, failed miserably



:lol: Same here... :lol:


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## Marc (Feb 2, 2009)

bvibert said:


> :lol: Same here... :lol:



Would that have been dense, windblown?  Or actual powder snow?

Remember that untracked != powder, necessarily.


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## Andrew Caffrey (Feb 2, 2009)

to me, it's all in the moisture content
i was at magic last thurs too after the big storm, and I too, got my butt kicked in the woods. that powder was heavier and denser than most, because of the high moisture content in the storm--the sleet line of the storm was just below magic.
so i'm using that an one excuse to explain my poor skiiing. I've been in similar glades elsewhere (Jay) that were just as deep, but the colder temps kept the snow lighter, and easier to power through and made it feel more like a true powder experience. 
i remember my first trip to utah they had gotten 33 inches the day before and closed both canyons for a day. but it turned out to be one of the wettest snows they got that year, and when we hit the mountain it was like skiing through broken cement that hadn't yet dried. took two days of sun to soften the topsheet enough... and I learned a lot about my inabilities then.


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## andyzee (Feb 2, 2009)

Marc said:


> Powder is way to hard too ski, trust me.
> 
> Stay home, it isn't worth it.



Agreed, it sux, stay home.


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## bvibert (Feb 2, 2009)

Marc said:


> Would that have been dense, windblown?  Or actual powder snow?
> 
> Remember that untracked != powder, necessarily.



The untracked stuff in the woods seemed pretty light and fluffy, but it may have just been that it was lighter and fluffier than the wind and skier packed powder we were finding on the rest of the mountain.  It was probably relatively dense all around.


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## Geoff (Feb 2, 2009)

bvibert said:


> The untracked stuff in the woods seemed pretty light and fluffy, but it may have just been that it was lighter and fluffier than the wind and skier packed powder we were finding on the rest of the mountain.  It was probably relatively dense all around.



At Killington, the wind got at pretty much everything overnight.  On Wednesday, the snow was still nice 'n fluffy.

Here is a set of clips of me on Wednesday afternoon.  

http://home.comcast.net/~geoffdevine/Geoff28Jan2009.wmv

On Thursday, even spots that don't usually get much wind like Patsy's Panties were pretty heavy from the wind packing.


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## mister moose (Feb 2, 2009)

Geoff said:


> At Killington, the wind got at pretty much everything overnight.  On Wednesday, the snow was still nice 'n fluffy.
> 
> Here is a set of clips of me on Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> ...



Hey, this is a commercial site, don't I get royalties or something?

Those were a good 2 days.

For those who have yet to slay the powder monster, here's a few thoughts:

Can you short swing down the fall line?
Are you comfortable with moderate speed?
Can you ski icy patches well, ie handle the transition from glare ice to softer piles of snow and back to ice?
Do you ski fairly centered?
Can you modulate from slightly forward to slighty back?
Are you aware of your weight distribution side to side?  Can you adjust it mid turn?

If the answer to any of those is no, practice more.  Then when the powder day arrives you will have far better tools to work with.  If you are weak on the above skills I think you will have a very tough time getting the hang of it. Powder is fluid, dynamic, you are in it instead of on it.  I wouldn't say it is easy though, witness the large number of people that avoid it or are frustrated by it.  

That said, powder skiing is a lot like kissing.  You just have to jump in and be willing to fail for a while. 

Now stay out of my line!!!


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## polski (Feb 3, 2009)

Got my first taste of powder on a high school trip to Whiteface, (gulp) 30 years ago, when two teachers who were the group chaperones urged me to join them ducking a rope up top and skiing a foot and a half of fresh for the last run of the day. Learned the hard way but quickly not to make sharp turns and to lean back a bit. (Also experienced a liftie coming after us swinging a broom at the bottom of the trail and telling us we were banned from that lift the next day .... so sorry, we said, knowing we were heading home that night anyway.)

Despite that early experience though, inexplicably it's only been in the last three seasons that I've become addicted to powder, or, more generally, to anything more challenging than wide slopes groomed flat. The epiphany came on my first visit to MRG. I've since learned that powder isn't always what it's cracked up to be (like when it's wind-loaded to more the consistency of styrofoam) -- sometimes chowder can actually be more enjoyable, and even then often the skiing is a lot more technical than simply leaning back and keeping the tips up (mister moose's post nails it).  Assuming we're not in the wrong part of a freeze-thaw cycle, I'll seek out ungroomed trails or edges and I'm learning to ski glades. Yeah I'm a little bit of a snow snob now -- it's a matter of picking my spots, of not spending finite resources to drive far and ski nothing but corduroy/boilerplate. But I don't look down at people who enjoy that -- different strokes and all that. For me it's all about the challenge and constantly trying to improve my skills ... and when things are right, experiencing the incomparable feeling of floating silently on a cloud.

Am I worthy? Sometimes yes, and I'm working hard on those other times.


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## billski (Feb 3, 2009)

polski said:


> (Also experienced a liftie coming after us swinging a broom at the bottom of the trail and telling us we were banned from that lift the next day .



He was just ticked that you got the goods before he did


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## riverc0il (Feb 3, 2009)

Good comments on the wind loaded stuff. That is when a wide fat powder board is to die for. 90+ skis slay the wind load while people on -90 are flailing around (for the most part). It is a rare case in which it is definitely the arrow and not the archer that is the issue. 

Powder does not take long to learn to ski well. But you are not going to learn very well if you only get one or two powder days a year and they are generally the chewed up loose snow variety that is much more forgiving than untracked in which tip dive will kill you. Unlike on groomers, you can't commit cardinal faults in powder or else you are going down. But at least you won't go down as hard :lol:

So, I would also propose that most people can't ski powder well because they hardly ever ski it at all. Also, by the time most people get to the mountains, the conditions are "powdery" rather than untracked which makes skiing a lot more manageable for most folks.


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## Geoff (Feb 3, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Good comments on the wind loaded stuff. That is when a wide fat powder board is to die for. 90+ skis slay the wind load while people on -90 are flailing around (for the most part). It is a rare case in which it is definitely the arrow and not the archer that is the issue.



My everyday skis are 86mm under foot.  Mister Moose owes me a clip he took of me on Pipe Dream on Thursday where I was really struggling.  The whole thing was heavy wind slab.  I did about half of it using the Highway Star "Mandatory GS Turn" technique.  In the back seat just hoping nothing ripped a ski off.   I felt really off-center and I'd like to see the video to see how far out I really was.  Somehow, I don't think another 4mm would have mattered.

In the summer sales, I may pick up something stupid-wide.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 3, 2009)

Geoff said:


> In the summer sales, I may pick up something stupid-wide.



My 110 underfoot Nordica Blowers were great in the Jackson Hole powder and handled crud and windslab really well...in light and dry powder, my race skis are fine but when it's heavier or tracked out..wider is better..


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## smootharc (Feb 3, 2009)

*Everyone is a powder skier...*

....they just don't know it.  Bad for them, good for me.  

This is a good thread, as the "psychology of powder" and "powder fear" is shown to be such a huge mental hurdle for so many people.  People who routinely ski tough eastern hardpack and icy conditions (Waaaaayyyy harder than pow) routinely make a big deal out of trying then failing in powder. Interesting. 

Back in the day, we with 78mm under foot thought we had the best powder/crud tools on the market.  It helped that they were, for me at least, 207cm's.  

Advice ? 

1) get on pow.  point down fall line.  go.  don't turn.  just gently bounce up and down, centered side to side and fore and aft.  Feel balanced and centered. Same as if the slope was freshly groomed. 

2) When you're nicely rolling along (and not before then), at one with gravity, start making a relaxed turn.  Then another.  If going gets boggy/tough, straighten out and regain momentum.  It shouldn't feel like a struggle. Start going too fast, then link those relaxed turns just a bit faster...use your powder brakes.   

3)  Smile and yell "Woohoo".  You're a powder skier now. At the bottom, look back at your tracks....your own personal Ninth Symphony.  You are no longer afraid. 

Don't fear it.  Don't over think it.  Don't worry about blower vs. denser.  Don't worry what you have under foot.  Just ski it.  It's pow !  And it's as EASY as you want it to be !

My .02


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## St. Bear (Feb 3, 2009)

smootharc said:


> This is a good thread, as the "psychology of powder" and "powder fear" is shown to be such a huge mental hurdle for so many people.  People who routinely ski tough eastern hardpack and icy conditions (Waaaaayyyy harder than pow) routinely make a big deal out of trying then failing in powder. Interesting.



It's been said a few times, but this thread has become so long that it bears repeating.  The #1 biggest deterrent (or fear if you really want to be that condescending) about powder skiing for most people on the east coast is the lack of experience.  Powder days are so few and far between that you're lucky if you're skiing in fresh powder more than a few times a season.  The average person can't drop what they're doing in the middle of the week and go skiing, so the stars and moon have to align and give a powder day on a weekend, which of course draws everybody else out to the mountain as well.  The East Coast mountains  are small (when compared to the West Coast), get tracked out quickly and the powder is gone.

Lets not make this out to be more than it is.  If you're not used to doing something, of course you're going to be uncomfortable.


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## from_the_NEK (Feb 3, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> Powder days are so few and far between that you're lucky if you're skiing in fresh powder more than a few times a season.




Speak for yourself.
It all depends on how close to the Mtns you are and what your flexability is. I get a lot of powder and so does riverc0il (and several others on this board). The east has plenty of powder days and just because it doesn't snow every weekend, doesn't mean there hasn't been a decent powder day at some point during the week. 
It definitely doesn't snow every weekend out west. But your typical trip to the Rockies is for a least a week and it is bound to snow at least a couple of days during that week. This is no different for the snow belt areas of northern NE. However, many trips to New England are 2-3 day trips with many of those being in Southern NE which has a lower likelyhood of good powder.

In short, in order to become better at it, you have to be commited to skiing powder when you have it (East or West). Not everyone you see at Vail is skiing the back bowl poweder staches. Most people are hanging out on the front side groomers. Just because you ski in Colorado a few times doesn't translate to being a powder skier (I have a long story of someone bragging about skiing powder in Aspen and then floundering in 10 inches of powder at Burke). 
There are a lot of EXCELLENT East Coast powder skiers, and they earned it.


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## St. Bear (Feb 3, 2009)

from_the_NEK said:


> Speak for yourself.



I am speaking for myself, and a majority of people on the east coast.  You said yourself that ....



from_the_NEK said:


> It all depends on how close to the Mtns you are and what your flexability is.



Well, the average person does not live close to the mountains and isn't all that flexible with less than a week's notice.

I agree with most of your points, because they are the same points I was trying to make.  In order to become a better powder skier, you must ski powder conditions more than a couple times a year, but it's not practical to drop everything and go skiing everytime it snows.  So for the average skier, the storms have to line up on a weekend that they're available, which is rare.


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## rocojerry (Feb 3, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> it's not practical to drop everything and go skiing everytime it snows.



it isn't? I practically take all my vacation days on snow


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## St. Bear (Feb 3, 2009)

rocojerry said:


> it isn't? I practically take all my vacation days on snow



Well, 2 weeks notice for PTO is pretty standard.  Try lining up your vacation days around a weather report 2 weeks in advance and see how well that turns out.  Just look at the "Storm of Century" that we were supposed to get this week.

Look.  I'm not saying that it's impossible and can't be done.  All I'm saying is that most people (myself included) have a hard time learning how to ski powder because they are stuck at work while everyone else on this board has taken the day off and gone skiing.


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> Look.  I'm not saying that it's impossible and can't be done.  All I'm saying is that most people (myself included) have a hard time learning how to ski powder because they are stuck at work while everyone else on this board has taken the day off and gone skiing.



This is definitely a good point and I'd say it represents the majority of the skiing public.  The folks that have easy access to powder, or are willing to make the sacrifices to get there are the exception, not the norm.

It's a lot easier to blow off a day of work to ski powder when you're within an hour from the mountain.  Try doing that when the mountains are 4+ hours away, in good weather, and you have a family waiting at home for you.  Sure, you can pull it off occasionally, but not consistently.


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## gmcunni (Feb 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> The folks that have easy access to powder, or are willing to make the sacrifices to get there are the exception, not the norm.
> 
> It's a lot easier to blow off a day of work to ski powder when you're within an hour from the mountain.



i think of it more as a choice in lifestyle.  some people place a greater emphasis on certain aspects of their life. Like skiing? then live near a mountain.   Like boating? Live on the water.

i grumble when i hear/see people dropping everything to catch a great powder day mid-week.  reality is for me that i choose to live in Southern CT, placing more value on friends/family/career.  my brother on the other hand dropped everything and moved to Utah at an early age so he could ski 120 days a year.

its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i think of it more as a choice in lifestyle.  some people place a greater emphasis on certain aspects of their life. Like skiing? then live near a mountain.   Like boating? Live on the water.
> 
> i grumble when i hear/see people dropping everything to catch a great powder day mid-week.  reality is for me that i choose to live in Southern CT, placing more value on friends/family/career.  my brother on the other hand dropped everything and moved to Utah at an early age so he could ski 120 days a year.
> 
> its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!



You're 100% correct, it is lifestyle choices.  If someone really wanted to ski powder on a regular basis all they need to do is move and get a job that allows them to do so.  The problem is that would drastically affect most other aspects of their life.


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## Greg (Feb 3, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!



I knew there was a reason I like you Gary. I have the same attitude.


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> its all good. i'll drive an hour tonight to catch 3 inches of fresh CT pow and i'll be happy the whole time!





Greg said:


> I knew there was a reason I like you Gary. I have the same attitude.



If I didn't have family obligations tonight I'd be right there with you guys.


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## gmcunni (Feb 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> You're 100% correct, it is lifestyle choices.  If someone really wanted to ski powder on a regular basis all they need to do is move and get a job that allows them to do so.  The problem is that would drastically affect most other aspects of their life.



IMHO, "problem" might be too strong, rather a "compromise".  I will give up A to get B.

that said, i've cursed you and greg for you ability, should you choose to do it, to run over to sundown for a quick hit.  for me, it is minimum 3 hour investment to go skiing, and that gets me less than an hour on the snow.


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## JD (Feb 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> You're 100% correct, it is lifestyle choices.  If someone really wanted to ski powder on a regular basis all they need to do is move and get a job that allows them to do so.  The problem is that would drastically affect most other aspects of their life.



Powder is only one reason in a long list, and I totally agree.  The drastically affected aspects of my life was income.  If you can make that work, I see no other drawbacks to living in the Mtns vs. visiting them.


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> IMHO, "problem" might be too strong, rather a "compromise".  I will give up A to get B.
> 
> that said, i've cursed you and greg for you ability, should you choose to do it, to run over to sundown for a quick hit.  for me, it is minimum 3 hour investment to go skiing, and that gets me less than an hour on the snow.



Yeah, I thought that may not be the right word as soon as a I posted it, but I was too lazy to come up with another one. 

And, yes, being less than 30 minutes from Sundown sure is nice.


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## gmcunni (Feb 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> And, yes, being less than 30 minutes from Sundown sure is nice.



thanks.. cursing you now as i type this :angry:


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

JD said:


> Powder is only one reason in a long list, and I totally agree.  The drastically affected aspects of my life was income.  If you can make that work, I see no other drawbacks to living in the Mtns vs. visiting them.



I don't make a ton here, so I can barely make it work (and still have some fun) as it is.  The other factor is family, especially now that we have kids.  Taking them away from their grandparents seems unfair to me (especially when you consider somewhat frequent free baby sitting).

I'd love to live in the mountains, but at this point in my life I'm unwilling to make the lifestyle adjustments necessary to do so, and I'm good with that.  It just means less powder days for me.  That's the reason I'm so big on skiing bumps right now, because I have easy access to that kind of skiing right now.


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## Greg (Feb 3, 2009)

CT ain't all that bad. We have some of the best mountain biking around!


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

Greg said:


> CT ain't all that bad. We have some of the best mountain biking around!



Easy there dude, it's still ski season!  Why the hell would you be thinking about mountain biking anyway?


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## severine (Feb 3, 2009)

...see what I started with the MTBing thread.... :lol: Sorry, guys!

Yes, I would love to learn how to better ski powder. Between: 2 kids, 2 night classes, a business I'm trying to re-launch (which requires working nights and weekends), and just plain old regular family obligations, it's just not possible for me to go out and ski just because it's snowing. There's a lot more planning involved, thus limiting my opportunities. If I were independently wealthy then heck, yeah, there'd be no excuse. But we're barely eeking by here. We just do the best we can and compromise for now... and hope we're not too decrepit when the day comes that we can move closer to the mountains and have less obligations/responsibilities.


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## rocojerry (Feb 3, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> Well, 2 weeks notice for PTO is pretty standard.



This may or may not work for some of you, but it has worked pretty well for me --  Schedule a bunch of days off in the winter way in advance.....  if it doesn't snow, don't fret...  Come into work on your vacation day...   

at this point, here you are at work, working through your vacation day because the work you are doing is soo important.....   maybe you mention to your boss... If I could take a day sometime in the next few weeks, that'd be great instead....

wait, track clouds, give your boss the 24/48 hour heads up... pounce....


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## riverc0il (Feb 3, 2009)

Geoff said:


> My everyday skis are 86mm under foot.  Mister Moose owes me a clip he took of me on Pipe Dream on Thursday where I was really struggling.  The whole thing was heavy wind slab.  I did about half of it using the Highway Star "Mandatory GS Turn" technique.  In the back seat just hoping nothing ripped a ski off.   I felt really off-center and I'd like to see the video to see how far out I really was.  Somehow, I don't think another 4mm would have mattered.


The right tool will generally benefit up to a point. But it won't compensate for not skiing with the best technique for that condition. Then again, 4mm might not have made much of a difference by 10mm+ might have.


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## riverc0il (Feb 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> This is definitely a good point and I'd say it represents the majority of the skiing public.  The folks that have easy access to powder, or are *willing* to make the sacrifices to get there are the exception, not the norm.


It all comes down to that willing part. Granted, there are some jobs that absolutely will not allow for any flexibility. But most people do not have those jobs. The distance issue is non-sense. I used to live three hours from most Vermont mountains, three and a half hours for many, and still made the effort. Very few skiers in New England can not get to a quality mountain in three hours or less.

The family issue, well, that is the big thing that I can see being a challenge and hard to get around by will alone. I am sure there are ways to do it but obviously the kids come first (until they are old enough so you can pull them out of school and enjoy a powder day together).

Then again, we all make lifestyle choices. Sorry to sound like a broken record on that issue, but too often people make excuses and blame external forces.

I agree that the great majority of skiers don't get enough opportunities to ski powder. But for the majority of those skiers, I think there is a general lack of will to make the sacrifices, compromises, and effort that is required to do so.


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## Marc (Feb 3, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I agree that the great majority of skiers don't get enough opportunities to ski powder. But for the majority of those skiers, I think there is a general lack of will to make the sacrifices, compromises, and effort that is required to do so.



I don't want to nitpick, but this statement sounds almost contradictory of the rest of your post about personal choices.  I agree, if we're talking about skiing powder as an action alone in a vacuum, those who don't ski powder, one could say, lack will.  But then again, when should we ever look at one aspect of life alone in a vacuum?  As a larger piece of the puzzle, it's just a different set of priorities sometimes set in motion and/or affected by our own innate natural abilities.  Because we're discussing this in a skiing forum, it's easy to talk like that, and even easier for people like Brian to think he lacks will rather than assuming his different priorities.

Skiing powder is not akin to unaided, human powered flight.  Most people are physically capable, but not everyone has decided to do so.


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## riverc0il (Feb 3, 2009)

Marc said:


> I don't want to nitpick, but this statement sounds almost contradictory of the rest of your post about personal choices.


I probably did not articulate accurately on that statement. Just agreeing with the general sense that the reason lots of folks have a hard time in powder is because they don't get out there enough. Not that they "lack the opportunity" but "don't create the opportunity" if that takes out the offending contradiction. 

There are, of course, no take backs in life and no amount of "will" can ever reduce important priorities once they happen. Sometimes those choices are made long term with deliberation and sometimes things just happen. My take is that there is almost always some aspect of control, regardless.

It is impressive how many family guys on this forum "make it happen" despite the issues previously discussed such as distance, family, job, etc. Lots of folks are having their cake and eating too. Perhaps not in the quantity that would be ideal but in the moderation that makes all aspects of their lives work for them. Which is inspirational and kind of backs up what I am getting at... lots of folks are making it happen despite the hurdles.


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## Marc (Feb 3, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I probably did not articulate accurately on that statement. Just agreeing with the general sense that the reason lots of folks have a hard time in powder is because they don't get out there enough. Not that they "lack the opportunity" but "don't create the opportunity" if that takes out the offending contradiction.
> 
> There are, of course, no take backs in life and no amount of "will" can ever reduce important priorities once they happen. Sometimes those choices are made long term with deliberation and sometimes things just happen. My take is that there is almost always some aspect of control, regardless.
> 
> It is impressive how many family guys on this forum "make it happen" despite the issues previously discussed such as distance, family, job, etc. Lots of folks are having their cake and eating too. Perhaps not in the quantity that would be ideal but in the moderation that makes all aspects of their lives work for them. Which is inspirational and kind of backs up what I am getting at... lots of folks are making it happen despite the hurdles.



It does, and don't worry, I wasn't too offended by it, it actually was pretty nitpicky.  I agree with the rest of it, and give me hope should God forbid I ever want to procreate.  Scary thought that is.  

We should go touring sometime, I've progressed a bit since the last time we earned turns together.  I promise I won't forget my poles either.


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## bvibert (Feb 3, 2009)

People can always make the choice to get more powder skiing, or skiing in general in.  In some cases, however, that would mean leaving their wives, kids, families to do so.  That doesn't sound like a good decision to me.  Sure, some people manage to "make it happen" more than others, but surely they're sacrificing something else somewhere along the way, they may not even know it.  

Life is full of choices and compromises, some lead to powder, others lead to other things that may or may not be better than powder skiing.  It's all a matter of perspective.



> and even easier for people like Brian to think he lacks will rather than assuming his different priorities.



I still stand by my statement that many people are not willing to make the sacrifices that are sometimes required to "make it happen".  I don't think that I lack the will to get powder, I do lack the will to change my priorities though.  Because I don't want to.


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## Marc (Feb 3, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I still stand by my statement that many people are not willing to make the sacrifices that are sometimes required to "make it happen".  I don't think that I lack the will to get powder, I do lack the will to change my priorities though.  Because I don't want to.



It's not a lack of will then.  An example of a lack of willpower would be a smoker that doesn't want to smoke any more, but continues to smoke.  Which also usually breeds low self esteem.


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## Geoff (Feb 3, 2009)

Spring corn snow on bluebird days is more reliable.  It's equally tough on people who skid their turns.  For a weekend warrior, I'm happy to substitute spring days for powder days.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 3, 2009)

I skied a hell of alot more powder the two ski seasons I spent in Montana compared to the four ski seasons I spent in Vermont..there isn't much powder skiing here in PA but I make up for it with steezy ski trips..I have about 10 powder days so far this season out of 50 days total..not a great ratio for the snowsnobs who live in the north country but good for living in MASH..


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## sledhaulingmedic (Feb 3, 2009)

Am I worthy?  Absolutely not!  I try to make room for them every chance I get.  At this phase in my life, it's a lot less than a couple years ago, but I have more pressures on my time.  No complaints though.


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## riverc0il (Feb 4, 2009)

Marc said:


> We should go touring sometime, I've progressed a bit since the last time we earned turns together.  I promise I won't forget my poles either.


Totally, that would be great. I probably won't do too much touring until April. I will keep you posted when I start hatching up some plans.


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## ripzillia (Feb 4, 2009)

Skiing Powder waist deep is no big deal to someone from the West. Skiing Ice IS! Fat skis just makes it easy for the tailgunner/floater skier,they can be skied correctly but usually not. This season the West learns to ski Ice and the East learns Powder. If your a real skier you just enjoy whatever you are served.
Thank-you and good-day.


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## JD (Feb 4, 2009)

Greg said:


> CT ain't all that bad. We have some of the best mountain biking around!



MTBing around here is OK too.


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## icedtea (Feb 4, 2009)

JD said:


> MTBing around here is OK too.



monmouth county, nj YO!

we have hartshorne and allaire!


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## JD (Feb 4, 2009)

icedtea said:


> monmouth county, nj YO!
> 
> we have hartshorne and allaire!



Been to hartshorn a few times...fun.  Learned to ride in Lewis Morris, and the Tourne,Chimney Rock and Watchung BITD.


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## hardline (Feb 4, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> That's debateable for sure
> 
> I definitely think you can ski a longer day on groomers than powder though.  Far less tiring as you can slack off more on groomers than you can in pow.



i really dont know about that. in powder i can be pretty lazy with my edge's. i know im starting to get tire when i have to do that little bit of groomer to get back to the lift and i actually have to set a edge but maybe its just me.


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