# starter DSLR



## gmcunni (Nov 22, 2012)

14YO daugher is "interested" in photography.  thinking of an inexpensive DSLR camera for Christmas, any recommendations? based on casual browsing $500 seems like the starting point, a bit much for what i'd call a "starter" camera.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 22, 2012)

I have a Canon T2i and love it. You can get the T3i with a lot of extras now for a good price at places like Costco or B&H.....


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## Geoff (Nov 22, 2012)

...or the Nikon D5100.   They're very close.


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## riverc0il (Nov 22, 2012)

Not quite up to DSLR spec, but you could look at Micro Four Third cameras. Panasonic GF3 w/kit lens is on Amazon for $329. Prior year M43 cameras w/kit lens are available for less than $300. Isn't going to quite be at the same level as a DSLR but cheaper point of entry with similar functionality for much lower price. Really lowers your cost if she doesn't like it or goodness knows breaks it somehow. But your long term costs are higher if she really likes it and wants a DSLR down the road.


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## gmcunni (Nov 22, 2012)

thanks, will check these out


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## thetrailboss (Nov 22, 2012)

Nikon makes a good camera. Canon does too. A lot of it comes down to personal preference and what feels right in your hand...


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## Nick (Nov 22, 2012)

I vote Canon as well ... Love my T2i 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Nick (Nov 22, 2012)

Nick said:


> I vote Canon as well ... Love my T2i
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2



I also think you can find them for less than 400 used... But nothing fancy for lenses. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Abubob (Nov 23, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> 14YO daugher is "interested" in photography.  thinking of an inexpensive DSLR camera for Christmas, any recommendations? based on casual browsing $500 seems like the starting point, a bit much for what i'd call a "starter" camera.



Just out of curiosity - why a dslr? There are a lot of "dslr like" models that might be less expensive. Like you say - she's "interested" and 14. Why not consider a hybrid?

Consider:

*Hybrid camera advantages*


Smaller, lighter and usually quieter than equivalent SLR
Ease of use with many compact camera features (such as face detection)
Better integrated video capture functionality
Electronic viewfinders usually larger than entry-level SLR optical viewfinders
Full shooting information and menus in the viewfinder
Smaller lenses
*Hybrid camera disadvantages*


Fewer models / brands to choose from
Limited lens choices
Slower - in some cases much slower - autofocus
Limited continuous ('burst') shooting capabilities
Electronic viewfinders cannot match the clarity of a good optical finder
Current models offer relatively poor low-light performance


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## dmc (Nov 23, 2012)

Better and changeable lenses...  Manual focusing.. Better depth of field..


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## riverc0il (Nov 23, 2012)

Abubob said:


> Just out of curiosity - why a dslr? There are a lot of "dslr like" models that might be less expensive.


Which is why I recommended micro four thirds. Massive step up from P&S and the have everything that DSLRs offer including, as dmc noted, changeable lenses, manual focus, good depth of field, etc. There isn't anything you can do with a DSLR that you can't do with M43 (or comparable) cameras and at much lower prices. 

I see no reason for a non-pro or non-serious amateur to get a DSLR with cheaper M43 cameras available. They were created to fill the gap between the small sensor P&S market and DSLRs, a camera someone interested in dabling in photography but have higher quality and control than P&S without going full in for expensive DSLR equipment.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 23, 2012)

dmc said:


> Better and changeable lenses...  Manual focusing.. Better depth of field..



The lens issue is big with me...but that is because I had two good lenses from my Canon Rebel that fit right onto the T2i.  I love that Canon has stuck with the same lens mount for so long.


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## Geoff (Nov 23, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> The lens issue is big with me...but that is because I had two good lenses from my Canon Rebel that fit right onto the T2i.  I love that Canon has stuck with the same lens mount for so long.



Except that the "good" Canon lens mount is the EF, not the EF-S.   If you get a real Canon digital camera body, you want EF lenses.

I'm micro 4:3 after my ex-wife decided she liked my EOS 5D and L lenses more than I did.   There are far more lens options with a Canon EF lens mount than are available in micro 4:3.... particularly if you want an off brand special purpose lens.   Micro 4:3 lenses are also pretty slow since they have a lot less glass in them.   You're trading the portability of a camera body that doesn't have a mirror and optical viewfinder against the amount of glass you can put in front of it.   It really matters in low light conditions, high speed action shots, or when you're trying to play depth of field games.


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## Nick (Nov 23, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Which is why I recommended micro four thirds. Massive step up from P&S and the have everything that DSLRs offer including, as dmc noted, changeable lenses, manual focus, good depth of field, etc. There isn't anything you can do with a DSLR that you can't do with M43 (or comparable) cameras and at much lower prices.
> 
> I see no reason for a non-pro or non-serious amateur to get a DSLR with cheaper M43 cameras available. They were created to fill the gap between the small sensor P&S market and DSLRs, a camera someone interested in dabling in photography but have higher quality and control than P&S without going full in for expensive DSLR equipment.



I dunno, I think there are quite a few advantages to going for  APS-C vs. a Micro four- thirds, but again it depends on how serious she is. 

I would probably go onto ebay and (assuming your daughter doesn't care about video) go for an older Rebel XTi or something. you can probably get one for under $300. And the pic quality will be close to what you can get with a T2i, etc. 

Here's a good deal though today on black friday: 

[h=1]Canon EOS Digital Rebel T3i 18MP SLR Camera w/ 18-55mm Lens + 55-250mm IS Lens + 75-300mm Lens + 16GB Lexar Class 10 SDHC Memory Card $649 + Free Shipping[/h]


Buy Now ►I bought this item​
B&H Photo Video has *Canon EOS Digital Rebel T3i 18MP SLR Camera w/ 18-55mm Lens + 55-250mm IS Lens + 75-300mm Lens + 16GB Lexar Class 10 SDHC Memory Card *for* $649* with* free shipping.* Thanks WhitePhantom

Click here and add T3i w/ 18-55mm and 16GB Lexar Memory Card to cart
Click here and add 55-250mm Lens to cart
Click here and add 75-300mm Lens to cart
Proceed to checkout
Total should be *$649* with *free shipping*


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## riverc0il (Nov 23, 2012)

I ain't saying a M43 camera is equivalent to DSLR. It is not quite at the same level. But gmcunni expressed two concerns that made me suggest it... that this a 14 year old expressing interest in something (she may or may not take to it) and that price point seems to be a concern. 

That T2i deal Nick just posted is a really good deal for that camera with three lenses.


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## Geoff (Nov 23, 2012)

Here's the Nikon equivalent on B&H's Black Friday sale

  	 	 		  		 		 			 			 			 				 					[h=1]Nikon   D5100 Digital SLR Camera With 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR Lens[/h] 				 				 			 				 			 			 				 				 				  				     

 				              							    Includes Free:
Lexar 16GB SDHC Memory Card Professional Class 10 UHS-ITiffen 52mm UV Protector FilterNikon 9793 D-SLR Value Pack for Nikon D3000 D3100 D5000 D5100 DSLR Camera $94.15 Total Value
 






 			   				 				 				 		       				 					Price: 					$796.95
 				 					Instant Savings:                  				 						 							-$250.00 						 						 				
 					You Pay: 					$546.95


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## gmcunni (Nov 23, 2012)

as to why dslr - probably because i don't know much about cameras to know different options.  she wants to get into a photography class in high school next year and i'm thinking the manual settings options available on a DSLR will give her the chance to learn HOW a camera works and what she can do with it.

i didn't know of the "micro four thirds", an option between point and shoot and DSLR, worth looking at.  

in the back of my mind the thought have having the DSLR around the house appeals to me too. so i can borrow it for random events when my P&S isn't producing quality results.


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## Abubob (Nov 23, 2012)

dmc said:


> Better and changeable lenses...  Manual focusing.. Better depth of field..



For someone who knows what to do with it.



riverc0il said:


> Which is why I recommended micro four thirds. Massive step up from P&S and the have everything that DSLRs offer including, as dmc noted, changeable lenses, manual focus, good depth of field, etc. There isn't anything you can do with a DSLR that you can't do with M43 (or comparable) cameras and at much lower prices.
> 
> I see no reason for a non-pro or non-serious amateur to get a DSLR with cheaper M43 cameras available. They were created to fill the gap between the small sensor P&S market and DSLRs, a camera someone interested in dabling in photography but have higher quality and control than P&S without going full in for expensive DSLR equipment.



Yes - I agree - except that almost anything other than a phone camera would be a marked improvement.



gmcunni said:


> as to why dslr - probably because i don't know much about cameras to know different options.  she wants to get into a photography class in high school next year and i'm thinking the manual settings options available on a DSLR will give her the chance to learn HOW a camera works and what she can do with it.
> 
> i didn't know of the "micro four thirds", an option between point and shoot and DSLR, worth looking at.
> 
> in the back of my mind the thought have having the DSLR around the house appeals to me too. so i can borrow it for random events when my P&S isn't producing quality results.



There are so many digital cameras on the market I agree its a bit daunting to know what to get. This might be a place to start.  http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras It should help at the very least find the _*type*_ of camera your daughter needs.


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## dmc (Nov 23, 2012)

Abubob said:


> For someone who knows what to do with it.



OK Ansel Adams...


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## severine (Nov 25, 2012)

Check photography-on-the.net for research and used options. Got my Canon 20D prosumer DSLR for about $200 there. It's not the latest and greatest, but great to learn on. Add a 50mm f/1.8 for about $100 and you've got a good inexpensive combo. She'll want something like that if she's taking Photography in school. Can prob get a newer model for similar price, as that was several years ago now. That's also where I sourced my 7D used.


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## Abubob (Nov 25, 2012)

dmc said:


> OK Ansel Adams...



That's right - you're gonna need some post processing software too. I think Photoshop Elements is about $80 or $90.


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## severine (Nov 25, 2012)

Abubob said:


> That's right - you're gonna need some post processing software too. I think Photoshop Elements is about $80 or $90.


Lightroom 4 is $99 right now, and well worth it. I have Lightroom 3; haven't gotten around to upgrading yet, but it's worth the money.
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-6516493...F8&qid=1353875644&sr=8-1&keywords=lightroom+4


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## Nick (Nov 25, 2012)

Pi casa is a great free starter tool. I just switched to light room and I really like it

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## gmcunni (Nov 25, 2012)

severine said:


> Check photography-on-the.net for research and used options. Got my Canon 20D prosumer DSLR for about $200 there. It's not the latest and greatest, but great to learn on. Add a 50mm f/1.8 for about $100 and you've got a good inexpensive combo. She'll want something like that if she's taking Photography in school. Can prob get a newer model for similar price, as that was several years ago now. That's also where I sourced my 7D used.




thanks, will check that out.. we just found the course description for high school.. she will need *GASP* a film 35mm camera :-o


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## Abubob (Nov 25, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> thanks, will check that out.. we just found the course description for high school.. she will need *GASP* a film 35mm camera :-o



What! film? I got a couple cameras you can HAVE!


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## severine (Nov 25, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> thanks, will check that out.. we just found the course description for high school.. she will need *GASP* a film 35mm camera :-o


I have 2, if she wants to borrow one. Haven't used them in years. One was my grandmother's (which I used for MY Photography course sophomore year of high school), the other was mine that I bought in the late 90s.

I imagine part of the course will be teaching them how to develop film and make prints, which is cool. I do miss that part of it. Paying someone else to do it--not so much.


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## bobbutts (Nov 25, 2012)

Raw Therapee is free OSS for raw processing
Gimp is free OSS like Photoshop
Adobe probably makes superior software, but these work well enough that I see no reason to pay for photo manipulation software personally.  
For just simple touching up there's a ton of options.  I like XNView


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## gmcunni (Nov 25, 2012)

severine said:


> I imagine part of the course will be teaching them how to develop film and make prints, which is cool.



sounds like it:

_Students must provide their own film, photographic paper, 35mm SLR camera with adjustable shutter, lens opening and focusing control, point and shoot cameras are not acceptable in this class._


i wouldn't even know where to buy film these days.. some specialty shops or on the interweb i guess.


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## severine (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's still available. We have a great camera shop in town; if you don't, try Ritz, maybe? You'll need a source for the paper anyway.


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## gmcunni (Nov 25, 2012)

EOS Rebel T3 EF-S 18-55mm IS II Lens Kit Refurbished - $310 direct from Canon with 90 warranty...???


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## o3jeff (Nov 26, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> EOS Rebel T3 EF-S 18-55mm IS II Lens Kit Refurbished - $310 direct from Canon with 90 warranty...???



You should of bought it yesterday, its $351 today and out of stock!


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## gmcunni (Nov 26, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> You should of bought it yesterday, its $351 today and out of stock!


that's F'd up. today (cyber monday) is supposed to be the big sale day!!!

out of stock was the color, there are others still in stock.


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## o3jeff (Nov 26, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> that's F'd up. today (cyber monday) is supposed to be the big sale day!!!
> 
> out of stock was the color, there are others still in stock.


I noticed that Amazon jacked the prices of some things I was watching too.


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## severine (Nov 26, 2012)

Amazon's prices are always in flux.

I love Canon products. I would still choose a used prosumer model over the plastic Rebels. If you don't want to buy from a stranger, try adorama's refurbed options. It does come down to how serious you'll be, but the prosumer ones are a bit more durable, more flexible, more options.


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## Abubob (Nov 26, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> I noticed that Amazon jacked the prices of some things I was watching too.



Obviously Cyber Monday is another way of saying "The REAL deals were last week".


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## riverc0il (Nov 26, 2012)

Freestyle Photo is a good vendor for B&W film if you don't have a vendor locally. My store orders through them wholesale. Though most of the college courses have gone DSLR but there are still a few B&W film classes offered. Surprised they are still offered at the HS level... gotta do something with that black room I guess... :roll: but they should at least offer a digital version of the course for those that could care less about B&W. Goodness knows most pros have probably gone digital by now leaving film for those few that are really into it.


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## gmcunni (Nov 26, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Freestyle Photo is a good vendor for B&W film if you don't have a vendor locally. My store orders through them wholesale. Though most of the college courses have gone DSLR but there are still a few B&W film classes offered. Surprised they are still offered at the HS level... gotta do something with that black room I guess... :roll: but they should at least offer a digital version of the course for those that could care less about B&W. Goodness knows most pros have probably gone digital by now leaving film for those few that are really into it.



my wife is friendly with a lot of staff at the high school, we're going to inquire about the photography class and prospects of it going digital any time soon.  there is a local state college credit associated with the photography classes so i'm guessing the curriculum is dictated by the college rather than the high school


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## Glenn (Nov 27, 2012)

Interesting thread. My wife wants to get into photography and a DSLR is on the list.


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## bvibert (Nov 27, 2012)

Glenn said:


> Interesting thread. My wife wants to get into photography and a DSLR is on the list.



Word of warning - Photography can make skiing look like a cheap hobby...


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## Nick (Nov 27, 2012)

bvibert said:


> Word of warning - Photography can make skiing look like a cheap hobby...



The birth of my son this past year involved more camera expenses than baby supplies 

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## bvibert (Nov 28, 2012)

Nick said:


> The birth of my son this past year involved more camera expenses than baby supplies
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2



Don't worry the baby supplies costs will catch up...


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## Puck it (Nov 28, 2012)

Wife got my son, a Nikon D3100 on Amazon for $476 for Xmas.


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