# The no BS real explanation to ski boots and their fit + flex



## drjeff (Sep 25, 2014)

http://www.realskiers.com/buying-ski-boots.html



Just an old school ski shop guy with years of experience cutting through the BS and getting down to what really matters!


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## Sky (Sep 25, 2014)

Nice.  And I'm in the fan club of...get fitted at the store...pay for the brick and mortar.

Not many "tackle" shops around here anymore with Cabela's and Bass Pro selling on-line.  

Thanks Dr J


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## dlague (Sep 26, 2014)

drjeff said:


> http://www.realskiers.com/buying-ski-boots.html
> 
> 
> 
> Just an old school ski shop guy with years of experience cutting through the BS and getting down to what really matters!



No new information here, if you have been skiing for a while and are experienced (did not say expert).  The last time I bought boots at a ski shop (about 15 years ago), I hated the boots after one season.  The fit the boot so it felt snug to the toe and snug to the last (which I think is most important).  However, once I skied them I had really bad toe bang.  Technically (looking back), I was sold a boot based on a budget not on skill level or at least not the skill level I wanted to get my wife to and really under sold to my wife who was fitted into boots that did not allow here to progress.

a Few years later. with that past experience in mind, I decided to research boots online first - I knew my last, manufacturers flex (which was too soft),  and the mondo size that was to short for me IMO.  Same applied to my wife.  I knew that we wanted stiffer boots and we also wanted boots that were a little more high end.  After reading reviews and searching through the summer, I was shocked at the buying power that I had particularly during summer months.  We were buying 2-3 times the boot for the same dollars if not less and we were totaly happy with what we got.  Keep in mind, savings are significant because we were buying for 6 people and paying ski shop prices just does not work.  We have bought new boots for our kids every two years (growing feet) and we switch every three (in know we could go longer but ...).

I great example, four years ago, I was in the market for new ski boots for my wife  the boots we settled on were Dalbello Krypton Lotus.  We were about to pull the trigger on them online but thought maybe we should go to a ski shop.  With out identifying the boot, we described what the objectives were and sure enough they led her to a softer boot.  I expressed concerns regarding ability to progress (once again).  He then picked up another pair that i did not approve of when we pointed out the boot we were considering and he considered that a great boot but thought it might be to soft.  Then before we got any further, I noticed the price - $495!  Whoa!  We walked out and never looked back - that night bought them from Evo for $239 less then half the price - sorry brick and mortar not worth twice the price.  Other notables - my sister was talked into skis for $949 and I found them on line for $430, she bough boots for her son recently and paid $500 and I looked at the boots and told her to return them (was not easy) and I found the previous years model for $180.

BTW, my wife has since progressed from greens and blues to being able to ski steeps, bumps (she is not a fan), glades, skis with more speed.  Her progression does not stop here nor does mine.  We will continue to do what works for us now!

I think brick and mortars have a role for those who do not want to think about it or research.


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## Puck it (Sep 26, 2014)

Unless you have really bad feet problems.  Boot fitting is not rocket science for the majority.  I fit all my own boots now since I know where the problems lie and how do it.  No multiple trips back to the store for tweeks.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 27, 2014)

dlague said:


> No new information here, if you have been skiing for a while and are experienced (did not say expert).  The last time I bought boots at a ski shop (about 15 years ago), I hated the boots after one season.  The fit the boot so it felt snug to the toe and snug to the last (which I think is most important).  However, once I skied them I had really bad toe bang.  Technically (looking back), I was sold a boot based on a budget not on skill level or at least not the skill level I wanted to get my wife to and really under sold to my wife who was fitted into boots that did not allow here to progress.
> 
> a Few years later. with that past experience in mind, I decided to research boots online first - I knew my last, manufacturers flex (which was too soft),  and the mondo size that was to short for me IMO.  Same applied to my wife.  I knew that we wanted stiffer boots and we also wanted boots that were a little more high end.  After reading reviews and searching through the summer, I was shocked at the buying power that I had particularly during summer months.  We were buying 2-3 times the boot for the same dollars if not less and we were totaly happy with what we got.  Keep in mind, savings are significant because we were buying for 6 people and paying ski shop prices just does not work.  We have bought new boots for our kids every two years (growing feet) and we switch every three (in know we could go longer but ...).
> 
> ...


Sounds like you need to find a better ski shop.


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## dlague (Sep 28, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> Sounds like you need to find a better ski shop.



Been to several in Manchester, Nashua, and North Conway and they all felt the same.   Really, I am good with online purchases - to each their own.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## Edd (Sep 28, 2014)

dlague said:


> Been to several in Manchester, Nashua, and North Conway and they all felt the same.   Really, I am good with online purchases - to each their own.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone



I enjoy the service at the shops but I think you've inspired me to try online next time, because I have zero foot problems. We could use the break in costs after springing for Strolz for the lady a season ago.


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## Puck it (Sep 28, 2014)

dlague said:


> Been to several in Manchester, Nashua, and North Conway and they all felt the same.   Really, I am good with online purchases - to each their own.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone




100% correct


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## deadheadskier (Sep 28, 2014)

I bought online for my last pair, but did try a similar model from Dalbello on in a shop.   It worked out okay and they were $300 cheaper than I'd have gotten in a store, but I feel like I could have gotten something better for me. 

My thing with buying boots online is that even if you know the correct length and last, that doesn't mean the boot is going to fit you properly in all areas.  You could be dead on with those measurements and find the heel pocket too wide or the calf area not wide enough.  My biggest concern in a set of boots is having a cement locked in heel area.  I'm just not sure I can trust someone's words on a webpage that that's what I can expect with a set of boots.  

I've read that skis.com allows you to order three sets of boots and keep the set you feel fits best and return the other two at no charge.  That might be an option that makes sense to me.


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## dlague (Sep 28, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I bought online for my last pair, but did try a similar model from Dalbello on in a shop.   It worked out okay and they were $300 cheaper than I'd have gotten in a store, but I feel like I could have gotten something better for me.
> 
> My thing with buying boots online is that even if you know the correct length and last, that doesn't mean the boot is going to fit you properly in all areas.  You could be dead on with those measurements and find the heel pocket too wide or the calf area not wide enough.  My biggest concern in a set of boots is having a cement locked in heel area.  I'm just not sure I can trust someone's words on a webpage that that's what I can expect with a set of boots.
> 
> I've read that skis.com allows you to order three sets of boots and keep the set you feel fits best and return the other two at no charge.  That might be an option that makes sense to me.



All online vendors provide free return labels.  At least skis.com and evo.com and levelnimesports.com and peterglen.com.  I feel descriptions are petty informative and many boots have ways of being adjusted.


.......


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## deadheadskier (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm aware that boots have ways of being adjusted.  However, some brands are just going to be a square peg in a round hole for some people.  As an example, I've never in my life found a pair of Tecnica boots that worked for me.  

Too each their own.  But, when I'm ready to buy new boots next, I want to try on at least a half dozen different pairs and go with what fits best and tweak from there. I would feel like an a-hole ordering 6 pairs of boots online and sending them all back until I found the ones I wanted.


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## dlague (Sep 29, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm aware that boots have ways of being adjusted.  However, some brands are just going to be a square peg in a round hole for some people.  As an example, I've never in my life found a pair of Tecnica boots that worked for me.
> 
> Too each their own.  But, when I'm ready to buy new boots next, I want to try on at least a half dozen different pairs and go with what fits best and tweak from there. I would feel like an a-hole ordering 6 pairs of boots online and sending them all back until I found the ones I wanted.



I get that!  I am the same with Tecnica.  I have been happy with Dalbello and stuck with them.  I have never ever had to return a purchase - if I had to then I know I can.  I have gone to Sports Authority and tried boots on by myself for the fun of it pre ski season.  At least at SA there is no sales pressure!


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## Puck it (Sep 29, 2014)

I stick with Head for the very reason. The shells stay the same volume and last.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm thinking about going back to Lange, but it's been so long since I've worn them that I don't know how they've changed.  I haven't skied them since 2001.  I was Lange guy exclusively through the 90s and loved them. 

Going to eek one more season out of my Kryptons most likely anyhow, so the discussion is a moot point for me.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 29, 2014)

dlague said:


> I get that! I am the same with Tecnica. I have been happy with Dalbello and stuck with them. I have never ever had to return a purchase - if I had to then I know I can. I have gone to Sports Authority and tried boots on by myself for the fun of it pre ski season. At least at SA there is no sales pressure!



Sports Authority ?  Of course there's no sales pressure because the guy selling ski gear knows more about basketball shoes than ski boots.


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## dlague (Sep 29, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> Sports Authority ?  Of course there's no sales pressure because the guy selling ski gear knows more about basketball shoes than ski boots.



Bingo!  That's the point! You can go in there and check out the boots freely and make your own choice.  Most of the skiers on this forum are more qualified to be boot fitters then the folks I find in most ski shops!  Their prices are good from what I have seen.  The Salomon or Tecnica boots there are no different then the boots found at other shops!


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## deadheadskier (Sep 29, 2014)

What kind of quality do you find in their stores?  What I see online looks like beginner level Nashoba Valley rental boots


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## WWF-VT (Sep 29, 2014)

dlague said:


> No new information here, if you have been skiing for a while and are experienced (did not say expert). The last time I bought boots at a ski shop (about 15 years ago), I hated the boots after one season. The fit the boot so it felt snug to the toe and snug to the last (which I think is most important). However, once I skied them I had really bad toe bang. Technically (looking back), I was sold a boot based on a budget not on skill level or at least not the skill level I wanted to get my wife to and really under sold to my wife who was fitted into boots that did not allow here to progress.



Sounds like you got a bad fit from day one and/or did not go back to the shop to tell them that you were getting toe bang so they could make modifications or get you in the right size/volume boot.




dlague said:


> a Few years later. with that past experience in mind, I decided to research boots online first - I knew my last, manufacturers flex (which was too soft), and the mondo size that was to short for me IMO. Same applied to my wife. I knew that we wanted stiffer boots and we also wanted boots that were a little more high end. After reading reviews and searching through the summer, I was shocked at the buying power that I had particularly during summer months. We were buying 2-3 times the boot for the same dollars if not less and we were totaly happy with what we got. Keep in mind, savings are significant because we were buying for 6 people and paying ski shop prices just does not work. We have bought new boots for our kids every two years (growing feet) and we switch every three (in know we could go longer but ...).



Your not really saving money in the long run. You should go to a shop that offers competitive lease pricing for kids gear and pay less that 50% of the cost of new and have them in the right boot and size for their abilty. Three years for an adult boot is very quick to change. Get the right boot and foot beds and 5+ years is closer to normal for most skiers. 



dlague said:


> great example, four years ago, I was in the market for new ski boots for my wife the boots we settled on were Dalbello Krypton Lotus. We were about to pull the trigger on them online but thought maybe we should go to a ski shop. With out identifying the boot, we described what the objectives were and sure enough they led her to a softer boot. I expressed concerns regarding ability to progress (once again). He then picked up another pair that i did not approve of when we pointed out the boot we were considering and he considered that a great boot but thought it might be to soft.
> 
> BTW, my wife has since progressed from greens and blues to being able to ski steeps, bumps (she is not a fan), glades, skis with more speed. Her progression does not stop here nor does mine. We will continue to do what works for us now!
> 
> I think brick and mortars have a role for those who do not want to think about it or research.



Once again a poor choice in a bootfitter vs a reflection of the qualities that you'll find in better shops.   Sounds like you were shopping for her rather than having a professional determine what would be best for her based uopn her size, skill and ability.


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## dlague (Sep 29, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> Sounds like you got a bad fit from day one and/or did not go back to the shop to tell them that you were getting toe bang so they could make modifications or get you in the right size/volume boot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Costing more in the long run?  I just bought my son a new pair of twin tips for $119.  Bought my skis for $200.  Bought his boots for $129.  Used marker bindings from other skis.  Last bought my boots on a spring sale for $170.  We will sell my sons skis in two years.  We also have sold gear on craigslist.  BTW, We could have used our current boots longer but choose to purchase every three to four years because we get good deals.  I have been skiing long enough to know what she needs - the gear they suggested would never allowed her to advance.  I buy gear that is slightly above her ability and she has progressed nicely.  We have used lease programs for our kids when the were in elementary school as teen agers they are in adult gear more or less.  The main reason I started shopping online is because of sticker shock at shops.  I am happy with our gear.  I would challenge anyone 1 to 1 and guarantee I will come out ahead.  Not my first rodeo.


.......


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## yeggous (Sep 29, 2014)

I just got home from buying new boots at Proctor ski shop in Nashua. I love that shop because they have by far the best prices -- better than online. I just bought 2015 Tecnica Mach1 120 for $509 -- that is 15% off MAP. Plus they are including 3 binding adjustments, and giving stone grind tunes for $20.

I got the last Tecnica Mach1 120s in the store (of any size). They said that they just tried to order more but they are sold out for the season. They claimed that everyone who tried them on bought them.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 29, 2014)

That's crazy that they can't get more for the year and it's not October.  Bad forecasting by Tecnica


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## yeggous (Sep 29, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> That's crazy that they can't get more for the year and it's not October.  Bad forecasting by Tecnica



It's a brand new boot for this year. The liner feels amazing. It fit so well that I am concerned that it's going to pack out early.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Going to eek one more season out of my Kryptons most likely anyhow, so the discussion is a moot point for me.



I guess not.

Just purchased a pair of last years Nordica Firearrow F3 boots. Social media works as I saw Fire on the Mountain advertising a Columbus Day Sale.  I went into the shop most interested in this years Lange RX130 or a K2 Pinnacle 130.   I tried both of those on, but then the shop guy pointed out the Nordicas as another option for a stiffer boot.  They fit great.  Man are the liners sweet compared to the utilitarian Intuition liners in the Dalbellos.  

Also goes to show what a crap shoot flex ratings are.  The Firearrows felt stiffer than the other two boots.  Their flex rating is a 14 (whatever that means) and I've read online that that translates to a 115.  

Great deal too.  $349 and they threw in an early season voucher for Sunday River.   I probably could have saved a little bit more buying these boots online, but having the shop available to work on them for no charge if I have issues was worth the extra few bucks to me.  I also likely wouldn't have gotten a "free" day of skiing buying the boots online. 

Can't wait to ski them.


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 12, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> They fit great.  Man are the liners sweet compared to the utilitarian Intuition liners in the Dalbellos.



Did you ever have your intuition liners cooked? I got my first pair 4 years ago and LOVE them. I have never been able to get such a custom fit to my foot shape.
I have a new pair of boots on the way to me and they come with the "now intuition" liner. Supposedly no cooking required but can be done if wanted.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2014)

Yes, had them cooked.  Never liked the overlap design of the intuitions.  The Nordica liners have much nicer padding and the fabric is great.  These can also be heat molded.  I didn't get that done today as the shop was crazy busy with the holiday sale.  I'll go back when its quiet and I can spend more time getting them molded and dialing in the cant.


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## Cannonball (Oct 12, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Yes, had them cooked.  Never liked the overlap design of the intuitions.



Interesting.  I know it's not quite as important with snowboard boots as ski boots, but I just got a new pair of Ride boots as part of a warranty exchange.  They have Intuition liners (the original ones I had didn't) and my first thought was "man that overlap looks uncomfortable!"  I hope they are OK, but I can definitely already picture me not liking it.


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 12, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Yes, had them cooked.  Never liked the overlap design of the intuitions.  The Nordica liners have much nicer padding and the fabric is great.  These can also be heat molded.  I didn't get that done today as the shop was crazy busy with the holiday sale.  I'll go back when its quiet and I can spend more time getting them molded and dialing in the cant.





Cannonball said:


> Interesting.  I know it's not quite as important with snowboard boots as ski boots, but I just got a new pair of Ride boots as part of a warranty exchange.  They have Intuition liners (the original ones I had didn't) and my first thought was "man that overlap looks uncomfortable!"  I hope they are OK, but I can definitely already picture me not liking it.



Interesting. I am a big fan of overlap liners. On older boots I wiuld often get hot spits on the edges of the tongue.
Guess it goes to show diferent things for different people.


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## prsboogie (Oct 19, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I guess not.
> 
> Just purchased a pair of last years Nordica Firearrow F3 boots. Social media works as I saw Fire on the Mountain advertising a Columbus Day Sale.  I went into the shop most interested in this years Lange RX130 or a K2 Pinnacle 130.   I tried both of those on, but then the shop guy pointed out the Nordicas as another option for a stiffer boot.  They fit great.  Man are the liners sweet compared to the utilitarian Intuition liners in the Dalbellos.
> 
> ...



I have the F2 got them last season. I love them,  except i got blistering on the left side of one tongue. About a 2 inch strip of blisters that never healed until mid summer.  Went to my local shop and they moved the top buckle out so the pull on the tongue is backwards instead of across my shin as it was. We will see how it works out.


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