# TSA scans and searches



## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

I refuse the full body scan today..  
not psyched about images of my naked body laying around and not going to allow myself to be irradiated 2 to 4 times a week.

The guy was not psyched when I opted out..  He also wasn't happy when I request a female to search me..  Then he gave me a nasty look when he ran his fingers up my "junk".. 
And the whole staff hated it when the people behind me in line refused as well..

if a terrorist sticks something up there butt - will they start checking there too??

We gota learn from the Israelis... 

Get ready for air travel this winter folks!


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> I refuse the full body scan today..
> not psyched about images of my naked body laying around and not going to allow myself to be irradiated 2 to 4 times a week.
> 
> The guy was not psyched when I opted out..  He also wasn't happy when I request a female to search me..  Then he gave me a nasty look when he ran his fingers up my "junk"..
> ...



Dude, I really don't no how you do it on such a regular basis, maybe you get used to it, but I for one can't stand the hurry up and wait process.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Dude, I really don't no how you do it on such a regular basis, maybe you get used to it, but I for one can't stand the hurry up and wait process.



It's the price i pay to live where I live and to do what I do...  
I'm making good coin.. So I'm hoping to retire early..

But I am actually thinking about finding something else without travel... That would mean i'd have to move to NYC


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2010)

Like it or not, the TSA folks in the airports are just doing their jobs.  Radiation wise, those scanners emit the equivalent of less than 5 minutes of radiation exposure that you get at altitude on that flight your about to get on.  image wise, i'm guessing that you don't have anything that anyone else doesn't have, or that they've seen before.  Unfortunatley it seems like this is just the price we have to pay these days for an attempt at security.

El Al wise, the biggest impediment to using that style system here is that El Al has roughly 1% of the take offs per day that the US airline industry has - so logistically that's a big issue


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Like it or not, the TSA folks in the airports are just doing their jobs.  Radiation wise, those scanners emit the equivalent of less than 5 minutes of radiation exposure that you get at altitude on that flight your about to get on.  image wise, i'm guessing that you don't have anything that anyone else doesn't have, or that they've seen before.



TSA sucks... They are a joke... I know they have a job to do but I've seen some pretty crappy behavior by these guys..  I've complied with every damn thing they've asked since 911. And I've flown 100's of times since then...

But their snide comments and other things I've seen really piss me off.. .

Pilots refuse because of the radiation..    I am too..

I've seen the images that were save and released when they said they never would..


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## WWF-VT (Nov 19, 2010)

I went through the scanner in Boston last week and didn't give it a second thought. This was before all the publicity and this week's news cycle.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> It's the price i pay to live where I live and to do what I do...
> I'm making good coin.. So I'm hoping to retire early..
> 
> But I am actually thinking about finding something else without travel... That would mean i'd have to move to NYC



Don't get me wrong---I get it, and friends of mine do the same thing, but it's just so foreign to me. I fly once a year and think it's a big deal---guess I'm just sheltered to the "real world", and I'm okay with that.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

WWF-VT said:


> I went through the scanner in Boston last week and didn't give it a second thought. This was before all the publicity and this week's news cycle.



Many of us frequent travelers are putting our foot down on this...  When I went through one a couples weeks ago - I didn't know I had a choice..

It's getting out of control... This stuff is too reactive..


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Don't get me wrong---I get it, and friends of mine do the same thing, but it's just so foreign to me. I fly once a year and think it's a big deal---guess I'm just sheltered to the "real world", and I'm okay with that.



It is a tough life...   And I expect to burn out someday..  I burned out bad on my last job after starting a 2 week period in Seoul Korea then Bentonville Arkansas then Frankfurt Germany..  i could barley move for 2 days and just couldn't work..

If it wasn't for my family - I'd probably move to CO or Cali and do it from there...  But for now..  It's what i do..


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## thetrailboss (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> We gota learn from the Israelis...


 
Where have you been? The Israelis have been strip searching folks before they get onto plans and doing many other things that you would argue "invade your privacy" for years!



> Passengers are asked to report three hours before departure. All El Al terminals around the world are closely monitored for security. There are plain-clothes agents and fully armed police or military personnel who patrol the premises for explosives, suspicious behavior, and other threats. Inside the terminal, passengers and their baggage are checked by a trained team. El Al security procedures require that all passengers be interviewed individually prior to boarding, allowing El Al staff to identify possible security threats. Passengers will be asked questions about where they are coming from, the reason for their trip, their job or occupation, and whether they have packed their bags themselves. The likelihood of potential terrorists remaining calm under such questioning is believed to be low.
> 
> Critics of El Al note that its security checks on passengers include racial profiling and have argued that such profiling is unfair, irrational, and degrading to those subject to such screening. Supporters of El Al argue that there is nothing inherently racist about passenger profiling and that special scrutiny of Muslims may often be necessary for security purposes.
> 
> The airline was also criticized by the Hungarian courts for refusing to search luggage with the passenger present, acting against Hungarian domestic laws which stipulate that only authorized officials are able to undertake such searches. A civil case was brought to the Supreme Court of Israel on 19 March 2008 alleging that El Al's practice of ethnic profiling singles out Arabs for tougher treatment.


 


Let's also try not to let this thread turn into a political trainwreck.


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## mondeo (Nov 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Like it or not, the TSA folks in the airports are just doing their jobs. Radiation wise, those scanners emit the equivalent of less than 5 minutes of radiation exposure that you get at altitude on that flight your about to get on. image wise, i'm guessing that you don't have anything that anyone else doesn't have, or that they've seen before. Unfortunatley it seems like this is just the price we have to pay these days for an attempt at security.
> 
> El Al wise, the biggest impediment to using that style system here is that El Al has roughly 1% of the take offs per day that the US airline industry has - so logistically that's a big issue


I'm just baffled by people who think a blurry outline of themselves is a bigger invasion of privacy than the guys in checked baggage rifiling through their stuff. It isn't even as big an invasion of privacy as removing my shoes. That tells everyone I have foot odor. The scanners have less detail than a mental undressing would. Except for the hidden weapons part.

In the list of added security measures over the last decade, this is the one that annoys me the least.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Where have you been? The Israelis have been strip searching folks before they get onto plans and doing many other things that you would argue "invade your privacy" for years!
> 
> Let's also try not to let this thread turn into a political trainwreck.



I've been there - they asked me a bunch of questions..   
Many people on my last job live there - never had a complaint..


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## Puck it (Nov 19, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Where have you been? The Israelis have been strip searching folks before they get onto plans and doing many other things that you would argue "invade your privacy" for years!
> 
> Let's also try not to let this thread turn into a political trainwreck.


 

They do behavioral profiles on everyone.  They have not had a security breach in 8 years.  I would be pissed if my 16 daughter got pulled aside got a "ping" as Nappy called it.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

mondeo said:


> I'm just baffled by people who think a blurry outline of themselves is a bigger invasion of privacy than the guys in checked baggage rifiling through their stuff. It isn't even as big an invasion of privacy as removing my shoes. That tells everyone I have foot odor. The scanners have less detail than a mental undressing would. Except for the hidden weapons part.
> 
> In the list of added security measures over the last decade, this is the one that annoys me the least.



It's the principal AND you can clearly make out images..  And some of those images have been leaked..

I've had my bags torn apart... Not a problem..  It makes more sense then a scanner..


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Let's also try not to let this thread turn into a political trainwreck.





Who said anything about politics??  

Are you asking for trouble?  thats not good moderation... And you guys were doing so well...  

haha..


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## Puck it (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> It's the principal AND you can clearly make out images.. And some of those images have been leaked..
> 
> I've had my bags torn apart... Not a problem.. It makes more sense then a scanner..


 

I am not worried abut the people on the plane. What worries me is the luggage and the cargo that goes on.  No printer cartridges now.  What is next no toiletries in luggage at all. No cargo shipments on passenger flights.  That will f up the airlines.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

Puck it said:


> They do behavioral profiles on everyone.  They have not had a security breach in 8 years.  I would be pissed if my 16 daughter got pulled aside got a "ping" as Nappy called it.



yup...  once again we agree..  

I read today that a woman got the patdown after she left a klenex in her pocket during the scan..  And was not happy when they touched her really private ares...

It's BS...


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## Puck it (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> yup... once again we agree..
> 
> ...


 

See, we do think alike and hell just froze over.  Oh, that is just snowguns going.


:flag:

I agree totally.  They do not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that will stop them from blowing up planes.  A suicide bomber could kill more people standing in the security line on busy day then on a plane.  Think about.  And he would not even have gotten to the checkpoint.


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## mlctvt (Nov 19, 2010)

If anyone's traveling on Wednesday the 24th be prepared.  It's national "OPT OUT" day.There is going to be some serious airline delays. Google it.

We did a quick poll at the office. Many people said they will no longer fly until this is repealed. 

Educate yourself on the backscatter Xray. 
Plus the photos of scans have already been leaked.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

Puck it said:


> I agree totally.  They do not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that will stop them from blowing up planes.  A suicide bomber could kill more people standing in the security line on busy day then on a plane.  Think about.  And he would not even have gotten to the checkpoint.



yup...   In India they won't even let you in the airport very easily without a ticket..

Another thing that pisses me off is people that leave their bags unattended..
I've seen 2 today - I'm still at the airport - and no TSA person to be found..  And I looked..
People - stay with your bags..  It makes me really nervous..

update - they are now checking all the garbages and going around wiping peoples hands....  good one...


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

mlctvt said:


> If anyone's traveling on Wednesday the 24th be prepared.  It's national "OPT OUT" day.There is going to be some serious airline delays. Google it.
> 
> We did a quick poll at the office. Many people said they will no longer fly until this is repealed.
> 
> ...



yup... Get to the airport early..


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## mlctvt (Nov 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Like it or not, the TSA folks in the airports are just doing their jobs.



Maybe not for long :smile:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101118/ap_on_re_us/us_airport_security_private_screeners


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## mondeo (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> It's the principal AND you can clearly make out images.. And some of those images have been leaked..


FUD, FUD, FUD.

You're seriously going to argue you couldn't mentally undress someone better than those machines can?

And the leak argument is BS as well. Medical records get leaked. SSNs get leaked. Financial information gets leaked. Sometimes on massive scales. Should it happen? No. Will it happen? Yes. All sensitive information can get leaked. But that doesn't stop us from creating or gathering sensitive information for other purposes, so just that it can happen isn't a valid argument in itself if you accept that there are legitmate reasons to collect information in general. The focus should be on controling the distribution of the images, not simply spreading FUD because there are a few instances here and there. Particularly with this tool, leaks will stop naturally over time as the novelty wears out.

There is no rational reason for this to be _the_ point of contention in TSA's procedures. There are plenty of less effective and more invasive checks already in place. They are emotional responses to an emotional issue. There is very little logic in play for those against the scans.

Now, whether they're worth the hundreds of millions being spent to acquire and man them, that's a valid question.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

mondeo said:


> FUD, FUD, FUD.
> 
> You're seriously going to argue you couldn't mentally undress someone better than those machines can?
> 
> ...



I know security..  My last job i worked protecting database from "leaks"  using encryption -  I've worked on systems I can't even talk about.   I couldn't even let my family know about some of the places i went.  

 just because it happens doesn't make it right.    Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"?  You bet it would..  

It is an emotional issue..  And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this..  Including the Pilots Union..


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## wa-loaf (Nov 19, 2010)

Interesting how conservatives and liberals are all over the map on this. It really hits a different nerve with people. And I'm not talking about just here, but from what I see in the news and my fb feed.

Personally I'm a little ambivalent about it. I'm a little concerned about the x-ray, but I think I'd rather do that than be felt up. I don't travel enough for it to really be an issue to me.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Interesting how conservatives and liberals are all over the map on this. It really hits a different nerve with people.



I don't know... Puck and I agree and our politics don't match up...
Everyone i work with agrees that it sucks...  But i don't know what their beliefs are...


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## mlctvt (Nov 19, 2010)

As the TSA is patting down Grandma and junior, nobody is concerned about the improperly checked baggage? Puck it is right, this is a real concern.  

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/17/1931088/airport-skycaps-caught-in-baggage.html


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

mlctvt said:


> As the TSA is patting down Grandma and junior, nobody is concerned about the improperly checked baggage? Puck it is right, this is a real concern.
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/17/1931088/airport-skycaps-caught-in-baggage.html




It's  tough to see a young kid in one of those things...  doesn't make sense...


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## mlctvt (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this..  Including the Pilots Union..



Looks like the pilots are getting a pass.. 

TSA: Pilots to be exempt from some airport checks
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101119/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security_pilots


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

mlctvt said:


> Looks like the pilots are getting a pass..
> 
> TSA: Pilots to be exempt from some airport checks
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101119/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security_pilots



Even everyones hero - Captain Sully is against it..

Not my hero - just a guy who did the job we pay him to do....  I hope every pilot can pull off a water landing..  i fly too much to think otherwise...


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## mondeo (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> just because it happens doesn't make it right. Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"? You bet it would..


Not saying it's right. I'm saying that the response shouldn't be "OMG it could happen so we shouldn't do it at all." If that was our response to everything, we'd still be in the stone ages, and both you and I would be out of a job (anything I touch is competition sensitive and export controlled technical information, though not classified.) Rather, we need to fully understand the value of the scans, the risks, and how those risks can be controlled. The leak issue should be fairly easy to plug. No cell phones or cameras allowed in the booth (and put it in a privacy booth,) disable prints or file saves without a sufficient level of clearance. And make the penalties for breaking the law severe and well known. Some of this is already in place, most of the leaks that have been reported are at courthouses and the like which don't have the privacy concern scrutiny that airports do.

First they came for the Swiss army knives
And I didn't speak up because I didn't carry one

Then then they came for the liquids
And I didn't speak up because I only travel with hotel shampoos smaller than 3oz

And then they came for the shoes
And I didn't speak up because I wear loafers and don't have to tie shoelaces

...


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## wa-loaf (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> I don't know... Puck and I agree and our politics don't match up...
> Everyone i work with agrees that it sucks...  But i don't know what their beliefs are...



I guess I'm hearing a lot of "suck it up" it's for you safety opinions too.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> It's the principal AND you can clearly make out images..  And some of those images have been leaked..
> 
> I've had my bags torn apart... Not a problem..  It makes more sense then a scanner..



I'd have a problem with that too.....big principal guy here...just don't like people telling me what to do when I can't make any sense of it myself.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> I know security..  My last job i worked protecting database from "leaks"  using encryption -  I've worked on systems I can't even talk about.   I couldn't even let my family know about some of the places i went.
> 
> just because it happens doesn't make it right.    Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"?  You bet it would..
> 
> It is an emotional issue..  And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this..  Including the Pilots Union..



Friggin 007???!!! cool


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## ctenidae (Nov 19, 2010)

I've been through LGA, Denver, Chicago, Charlottesville, and Richmond in the past 2 weeks. Only saw one full-body scanner, and it was shut down and had caution tape all over it.

TSA searches are, I believe, generally ineffective at anything other than promoting creativity on the part of potential terrorists. But, there haven't been any hijackings, so it must be working.

/tiger rock, I have one for you


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> I guess I'm hearing a lot of "suck it up" it's for you safety opinions too.



this swarthy bearded guy has gladly "sucked it up" for everything they made us do since 911..   I've been searched more times then most people on this board have flown..   I've had my luggage pilfered.. I've been questioned...  I've been patient..  Shown up 2 hours before my flight..  etc...

But I draw the line at this crap..


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Friggin 007???!!! cool



In security - one of the first things you need to do to breach a system is find out whats being used to protect it...  Many of my customers did not want anyone to know what they were doing,,,


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## mondeo (Nov 19, 2010)

Side note - I'm getting the feeling that the rally to restore sanity didn't work. Mainly for those who participated.


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2010)

mondeo said:


> FUD, FUD, FUD.
> 
> You're seriously going to argue you couldn't mentally undress someone better than those machines can?
> 
> ...



Yup.  All too quickly people stop thinking and start reacting.  When emotion enters the equation, that's when a topic can get out of hand quickly.

Maybe it's just how I was trained,  see a situation, try and logically figure it out, and then react. 

Frankly, the cost/benefit ratio of these scanners is completely open for debate, but the TSA's implementation of these + the enhanced pat-downs IS a new screening method, and something that could very well require a potential terrorist to have to abort an already planned mission and try and figure out a way around this version(and it's not like we haven't heard of multiple attempts as of late).  I'm sure this won't be the last new method the TSA is going to implement, and it's the TSA's actions of changing up their procedures that could very well save innocent lives, and that's the mission they'v been charged with.


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Side note - I'm getting the feeling that the rally to restore sanity didn't work. Mainly for those who participated.



+1


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> In security - one of the first things you need to do to breach a system is find out whats being used to protect it...  Many of my customers did not want anyone to know what they were doing,,,



Therefore shouldn't an organization that's trying to protect someone/something be regularly changing up their security protocols to eliminate the "norm" for a would be attacker???


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## Geoff (Nov 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Therefore shouldn't an organization that's trying to protect someone/something be regularly changing up their security protocols to eliminate the "norm" for a would be attacker???



Yeah, but when you have 90 IQ TSA employees, that's just not possible.

The screening I've been through coming and going to Israel is amazing.   I've had easier job interviews.   The average TSA dolt couldn't handle it.

The way I look at it, the terrorists have won.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Yup.  All too quickly people stop thinking and start reacting.  When emotion enters the equation, that's when a topic can get out of hand quickly.




All too quickly??!?!?  Dude - as I've said - I've been flying nonstop since 911..  I've put up with a ton of stuff...  I've been very patient through this whole thing... I've supported all efforts - except maybe the shoes...  I've gladly had my stuff search and have been patted down..

I just don't want to walk into something that bombards me with radiation and creates an image of my naked body..   Even your techs wear a vest when they take xrays of people mouths..   Radiation isn't good...   And yes - i know that i get radiated when i fly - why add more?


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Therefore shouldn't an organization that's trying to protect someone/something be regularly changing up their security protocols to eliminate the "norm" for a would be attacker???



maybe they do..  maybe they don't...  these things don't come cheap.

Regular rotation of encryption keys is a way to protect data.. Internal threats are the most common.    Keeping the operational people out of data(separation of duties) is the key.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Yeah, but when you have 90 IQ TSA employees, that's just not possible.
> 
> The screening I've been through coming and going to Israel is amazing.   I've had easier job interviews.   The average TSA dolt couldn't handle it.
> 
> The way I look at it, the terrorists have won.



Israel got it right..  just get there early and your OK..  My company wouldn't let me go after i went to Dubai and had Arabic on my passport... Apparently they get reall nervous about that..  

A couple of my friends got GRILLED coming into Dubai..
They are smokers and hadn't had a butt in 20 hours...   they appeared nervous and got the crap questioned out of them..  One of my friends was questioned about his CD's - they don't allow porn DVDs there..


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## o3jeff (Nov 19, 2010)




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## dmc (Nov 19, 2010)

o3jeff said:


>



yup... That was me...  
I never thought I'd have some dude on his knees in front of my crotch...


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## BeanoNYC (Nov 19, 2010)

It's all smoke and mirrors.  I plan on taking viagra the next time I fly.


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## mlctvt (Nov 19, 2010)

BeanoNYC said:


> I plan on taking viagra the next time I fly.



LOL, I'm laughing so hard I can't breath. 

I think you should opt out then moan a little during the pat down. TSA guy would probably get away from you real quick, unless he likes that kind of thing. :smile:


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## RootDKJ (Nov 19, 2010)

TSA is a bunch of thieves.  At least out of Newark they are.


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## mondeo (Nov 19, 2010)

dmc said:


> All too quickly??!?!? Dude - as I've said - I've been flying nonstop since 911.. I've put up with a ton of stuff... I've been very patient through this whole thing... I've supported all efforts - except maybe the shoes... I've gladly had my stuff search and have been patted down..
> 
> I just don't want to walk into something that bombards me with radiation and creates an image of my naked body.. Even your techs wear a vest when they take xrays of people mouths.. Radiation isn't good... And yes - i know that i get radiated when i fly - why add more?


If people had reacted to the earlier, more invasive measures, it would be a different story. If people had a more measured response, it would be a different story. But no, the shoes may have been sort of grumbled about (and has done much more to delay the process than any of the scans - I can't remember the last time I didn't have to wait a minute or two for my stuff to come through the X-ray. That's the bottleneck,) but everyone pretty much just gave in. And now, instead of having a rational discussion, people just flip out and start crying bloddy murder over some images that anyone can create in their brains anyways, and anyone good with photoshop could probably give people a tough time figuring out which was the scan and which was the fake. It simply isn't that detailed.

Comparing these machines to medical X-rays is ridiculous. Those have to have enough power to pass significant amounts of radiation through someone, these bounce tiny amounts off someone. It's a completely different mechanism.


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 19, 2010)

BeanoNYC said:


> It's all smoke and mirrors.  I plan on taking viagra the next time I fly.



The female accountant at work said next time she flies she is strapping a cucumber to her leg and choosing the pat down.


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## jaja111 (Nov 19, 2010)

Hawkshot99 said:


> The female accountant at work said next time she flies she is strapping a cucumber to her leg and choosing the pat down.



Too bad she'll face $10,000 in fines, possible litigation, and be escorted from the airport. A more creative prosecutorial route could include criminal charges. I've seen such ramifications have been discussed on other forums regarding the possibility of someone stripping nude when they go to remove their shoes for scan. 

I totally disagree with this being an effective countermeasure, mitigation, or deterrent to terrorism. It has only succeeded in the fundamental basis of the goals of terrorism - to create terror. People's spouses, children, persons who have the mental scars of past sexual molestation, individuals with medical issues or devices affixed to them, etc. - all being terrorized. I could give a crap if I am seen nude, but do give a crap at unnecessary exposure to radiation (deemed safe now, but remember "fluoroscopes" used at shoe stores long ago? Radium laced paint was considered safe for people painting watch faces in the past too). Giving up our freedoms for the sake of so called security is the slippery slope to the end. What happens next, when an 18 year old poor bastard from nowhere land fervently joins the jihadist cause and is convinced to board an international flight with a detonator and 3 pounds of plastic explosives within his rectal cavity and colon? What happens then? We now something in the name of "security" will surely happen. 

On a side note, I do not find it surprising that OSI Systems Inc. (makers of Rapiscan ("Rape - i - scan")  full body scanners) has only gone to $35.22 per share since Christmas ball bomber's incident price of $22.02/share. If the public outcry and Congress's feel good rhetoric has any effect to stop scanning, I see a huge shortsell on OSI in my future!


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## billski (Nov 19, 2010)

jaja111 said:


> I totally disagree with this being an effective countermeasure, mitigation, or deterrent to terrorism. It has only succeeded in the fundamental basis of the goals of terrorism - to create terror.



As well as diverting resources and time from more productive pursuits, further impairing our competitive advantage as a nation.


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## ERJ-145CA (Nov 19, 2010)

It's just security theater that's supposed to make the general public feel safe.  There are plenty of airport workers in the secure area who don't go through security, which could be an issue.

Also I'm not going to go through a scanner, I get 6 to 8 hours of radiation per workday already so I'm not going to add to that.  There's no reason to subject pilots to the scanners or the "enhanced" pat downs, I have control of the plane and there is an ax in the cockpit, so it just seems pointless to me.  Not to mention that I've had a background check.

Also Michael Chertoff, former Homeland Security chief, owns the security consulting company Chertoff Group.  Rapiscan Systems (makers of one of the two body scanners) is one of his clients.  Seems like a conflict of interest to me and probably one of the reasons that the machines were rolled out so fast.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2010)

ERJ-145CA said:


> IThere's no reason to subject pilots to the scanners or the "enhanced" pat downs, I have control of the plane and there is an ax in the cockpit, so it just seems pointless to me.  Not to mention that I've had a background check.



Well - if a pilot wanted a weapon - he already has his hands on a huge weapon..  A plane..

I think frequent travelers should have the option to get a background check and be able t go through a basic check to avoid any radiation - however low - from the scanners.


----------



## dmc (Nov 20, 2010)

billski said:


> As well as diverting resources and time from more productive pursuits, further impairing our competitive advantage as a nation.



Or looking for bombs in cargo holds...


----------



## Puck it (Nov 20, 2010)

dmc said:


> Well - if a pilot wanted a weapon - he already has his hands on a huge weapon.. A plane..
> 
> I think frequent travelers should have the option to get a background check and be able t go through a basic check to avoid any radiation - however low - from the scanners.


 

I would gladly pay for a security check on my family and I to bypass this BS.  They never followed through with this.


----------



## billski (Nov 20, 2010)

This new pat down procedure has really gone over the line.  It's not the macho men I worry about here.    I was listening to a radio show last night where dozens of people called in.  Women who experience the new pat-down expressed opinions from "great humiliation" to "groping" to "near rape."   An elderly woman was so scared she was crying.  Little children are very upset. MSNBC reports a breast cancer survivor had to remove her prosthesis in front of everyone.  Sheer embarrassment.  The fact is, for many, this is a very traumatic event, which has been called by many unnecessary and redundant.


----------



## Geoff (Nov 20, 2010)

dmc said:


> I think frequent travelers should have the option to get a background check and be able t go through a basic check to avoid any radiation - however low - from the scanners.



This


----------



## billski (Nov 20, 2010)

Geoff said:


> This


is only good for road warriors.  The people have the most trouble are the casual leisure travelers.  Your grandmother for example.


----------



## Geoff (Nov 20, 2010)

billski said:


> is only good for road warriors.  The people have the most trouble are the casual leisure travelers.  Your grandmother for example.



They can X-Ray the casket all they want.  She won't mind.

I think casual leisure travelers should have a special security line.   They're the ones with gallons of liquids in their bag.   They're the ones going through the metal detector with a Mister T starter set of gold chains.   They're the ones milling around at the X-Ray machine conveyer belt while the machine sits unoccupied.   They have a "expert traveler" security line at a lot of airports but you see senile 80-year-olds in it.

I was in Philly Terminal E at 3:00 on Wednesday.   Only 3 of the 10 X-Ray machines and metal detectors were staffed.   It was a 30 minute queue.   I think the TSA should be held to performance metrics.   5 minute wait or all the people at the security checkpoint get fired.


----------



## dmc (Nov 20, 2010)

Geoff said:


> They can X-Ray the casket all they want.  She won't mind.
> 
> I think casual leisure travelers should have a special security line.   They're the ones with gallons of liquids in their bag.   They're the ones going through the metal detector with a Mister T starter set of gold chains.   They're the ones milling around at the X-Ray machine conveyer belt while the machine sits unoccupied.   They have a "expert traveler" security line at a lot of airports but you see senile 80-year-olds in it.
> 
> I was in Philly Terminal E at 3:00 on Wednesday.   Only 3 of the 10 X-Ray machines and metal detectors were staffed.   It was a 30 minute queue.   I think the TSA should be held to performance metrics.   5 minute wait or all the people at the security checkpoint get fired.



this...

I may add that the xray line was moving VEEEEEEEEEEERY slow this trip..


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 20, 2010)

It's my choice to fly and in making that choice, I choose to play by their rules.  It's just not worth getting worked up over IMO.  I am not the most patient person when it comes to crowds/lines either.  But, ultimately I can make choices to not put myself in those situations.

As for the image of my nakid body.  I've seen the pictures.  You can't tell who the person is from looking at it.  As far as I'm concerned they could send an image like that of me to every publication in the world, I really wouldn't care.  

The full body pat down isn't only going on for air travel.  Go see a show at the House of Blues in Boston.  I will be there NYE.  Depending on whether not they've improved how quickly the line to get in moves, I may or may not go back there.  Plenty of music festivals I go to my car is searched from bumper to bumper.  Heck for Phish at Saratoga last summer, they were searching and confiscating unopened beer from peoples cars.  They said they were going to do that and it's exactly what they did.  If you don't like it, don't go.

Don't mean to offend anyone who has an issue with the TSA screenings.  I just really don't see it as that big of a deal.  You're entitled feel how you want however.


----------



## dmc (Nov 20, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> It's my choice to fly and in making that choice, I choose to play by their rules.  It's just not worth getting worked up over IMO.  I am not the most patient person when it comes to crowds/lines either.  But, ultimately I can make choices to not put myself in those situations.
> 
> As for the image of my nakid body.  I've seen the pictures.  You can't tell who the person is from looking at it.  As far as I'm concerned they could send an image like that of me to every publication in the world, I really wouldn't care.
> 
> ...



No offense taken..  I don't expect everyone to see it from my point of view.   For many of us that travel weekly - it is a big deal..  And it seems that this issue is getting bigger every day.

I don't want to be scanned(my choice) and I'd prefer to not have to endure a search that a cop can't perform without probable cause.  But I have to.

I am super patient when it comes to travel - I give myself more then enough time to get to airports and am the guy with the smile on his face when the flight gets cancelled..  

Again - I have no issues with my luggage being searched.  You gotta see what they do to believe it..  It's pretty intimate..


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 20, 2010)

dmc said:


> and I'd prefer to not have to endure a search that a cop can't perform without probable cause.  But I have to.



I'm not even sure where the line is for legality on searches anymore.  The House Blues went over every inch of my body for the Disco Biscuits.  Same goes for my wife.  Airports often municipality owned with private airlines and then there's the TSA.  Hard to say who has the ultimate say in how business is conducted including searches.

....I don't think there's an easy solution or defined right or wrong in any of this.


----------



## dmc (Nov 20, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm not even sure where the line is for legality on searches anymore.  The House Blues went over every inch of my body for the Disco Biscuits.  Same goes for my wife.  Airports often municipality owned with private airlines and then there's the TSA.  Hard to say who has the ultimate say in how business is conducted including searches.
> 
> ....I don't think there's an easy solution or defined right or wrong in any of this.



I think the people will decide this one..   

TSA came in contact with my junk a few times during the search..  From the front and back..   It was pretty humiliating.   If they tried that at a concert I'd be pissed.  Light pat down - ok..  But this stuff is just - wow...

If I could take trains - I'd do it..


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Nov 20, 2010)

They had a pretty indepth report on CNBC on the new scanning vs pat down yesterday. Since this is new plenty of the so called "expert" travelers had as much problems as anyone else. Underwear is where alot of people would hide stuff plus the crack of their ass so if they didn't inspect that on a pat-down, why bother. 

CNBC had an independent scientist who tested the scanning eqiupment for radiation exposure and concluded that you get the same amount of radiation being scanned as you get from about 2 min of flying in the plane. Personally, I don't have a problem with either and I don't see it changing. From the agents perspective everything is recorded on camera so that keeps them on their toes and not going to far. Some airports want to change from fed agents to a private contractor. 

It's not perfect, not all the airports have state of the art scanners which when scanned gives a picture that looks more like a pencil person than the more realistic picture the older scanners produce.

Did anyone else see the drone just unveiled by the Chinese. We owe a hell of alot on money to them(they lend us the money to cover the deficit) so we do have some leverage. If they do get in the wrong hands are drone air battles run by teenagers with joysticks just around the corner? :wink:


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## RootDKJ (Nov 20, 2010)

dmc said:


> I don't want to be scanned(my choice) and I'd prefer to not have to endure a search that a cop can't perform without probable cause.  But I have to.



This is the part that bothers me.


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## darent (Nov 20, 2010)

dmc said:


> I know security..  My last job i worked protecting database from "leaks"  using encryption -  I've worked on systems I can't even talk about.   I couldn't even let my family know about some of the places i went.
> 
> just because it happens doesn't make it right.    Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"?  You bet it would..
> 
> It is an emotional issue..  And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this..  Including the Pilots Union..



is your"junk" that ugly ?.It's not like they have your name attached to the image and post it on the net. to bad you didn't spend time in school taking group showers or in the military. you might not be so sensitive about the scans, radiation would be more of a concern for frequent flyers.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2010)

darent said:


> is your"junk" that ugly ?.It's not like they have your name attached to the image and post it on the net. to bad you didn't spend time in school taking group showers or in the military. you might not be so sensitive about the scans, radiation would be more of a concern for frequent flyers.



It's really just about principal...


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## deadheadskier (Nov 20, 2010)

oh

I thought you had dmc tattoed on your junk :lol:


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> oh
> 
> I thought you had dmc tattoed on your junk :lol:



I do - In upper case - block letters...


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## powpig2002 (Nov 21, 2010)

i'd be more impressed if deadheadskier had his tag tattooed on his junk. when i was a kid, i bought a pair of x ray glasses out of a comic book. boy was i bummed.


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2010)

powpig2002 said:


> i'd be more impressed if deadheadskier had his tag tattooed on his junk. when i was a kid, i bought a pair of x ray glasses out of a comic book. boy was i bummed.



yeah... that and the submarine... Man was I bummed when I saw it was cardboard..


----------



## powpig2002 (Nov 21, 2010)

you fell for that? what a chump. i knew you couldn't buy a sub out of a comic. cheeeesh!


----------



## dmc (Nov 21, 2010)

powpig2002 said:


> you fell for that? what a chump. i knew you couldn't buy a sub out of a comic. cheeeesh!



I was like 6 years old...  haha..  It did have a cool light and a periscope..


----------



## Warp Daddy (Nov 21, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> oh
> 
> I thought you had dmc tattoed on your junk :lol:



 ROFLMAO 

I always thoughtr the ULTIMATE junk tatoo would go like this :



"Shorty's"  -------------------- then under proper conditions  it woulsd also ad the phrase " bar and grill, North Tonawanda , N . Y  .  __


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## billski (Nov 21, 2010)

Interesting tidbit:

The TSA has not caught a single terrorist since 2001, all of the  potential terrorist acts have been stopped by fellow passengers.


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## powpig2002 (Nov 21, 2010)

wy then welcome to jamaca mon. have a nice day!


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## Geoff (Nov 21, 2010)

dmc said:


> I do - In upper case - block letters...



And when you rub it, it says DeLorean Motor Company


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## WakeboardMom (Nov 21, 2010)

Geoff and DMC - thank you for your perspectives from frequent-flyers...especially DMC who made sure to mention that he got to the airport early.  I'm with DHS.  Scan me, pat me...whatever it takes.  I don't try to take tons of sh*t in my carry-on; I hate people who disrupt take-off with jammin' sh*t in the overhead.  I'm a casual traveler, but not a dope.

Scan me, pat me, just don't do more than that, unless you're buyin' me dinner.   ; )  (With REAL silverware, NOT plastic!!)


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2010)

Geoff said:


> And when you rub it, it says DeLorean Motor Company



baw haw....


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## Mildcat (Nov 21, 2010)

Geoff said:


> And when you rub it, it says DeLorean Motor Company



And I'm not going to ask how you know this. :lol:


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## darent (Nov 21, 2010)

o3jeff said:


>



If it gets this far, I think you made a bad choice,personally I will take the scan over the sweaty palm grope anyday!!


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## Geoff (Nov 21, 2010)

Mildcat said:


> And I'm not going to ask how you know this. :lol:



You haven't seen the TSA scan pictures?   They're all over the internet.


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## amf (Nov 21, 2010)

I swear, I just want to strip buck naked in line & ask if they have any other things they'd like to see. That or wrap my junk in tinfoil... gotta keep those xrays at bay!


----------



## BeanoNYC (Nov 21, 2010)




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## darent (Nov 21, 2010)

amf said:


> I swear, I just want to strip buck naked in line & ask if they have any other things they'd like to see. That or wrap my junk in tinfoil... gotta keep those xrays at bay!



didn't i read  that some guy did that, they arrested him for indecent exposure. his reply- I was just trying to make it easier for the TSA


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## mlctvt (Nov 22, 2010)

If you're curious what the scan shows,  here's a sample image. 

http://www.optoutday.com/


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## bvibert (Nov 22, 2010)

mlctvt said:


> If you're curious what the scan shows,  here's a sample image.
> 
> http://www.optoutday.com/



Doesn't look all that revealing to me.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

bvibert said:


> Doesn't look all that revealing to me.



The dude doesn't have that big of a package - but it's clearly discernible..


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## Puck it (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


> I think the people will decide this one..
> 
> TSA came in contact with my junk a few times during the search.. From the front and back.. It was pretty humiliating. If they tried that at a concert I'd be pissed. Light pat down - ok.. But this stuff is just - wow...
> 
> If I could take trains - I'd do it..


 

Did u feel two hands on your shoulders from behind?


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## mondeo (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


> The dude doesn't have that big of a package - but it's clearly discernible..


Wait, you're telling me a guy has male parts? This is shocking. I wouldn't be able to figure that out without the help of a scanner.


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Wait, you're telling me a guy has male parts? This is shocking. I wouldn't be able to figure that out without the help of a scanner.



Next thing you're going to tell me that a girl has girl parts


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Wait, you're telling me a guy has male parts? This is shocking. I wouldn't be able to figure that out without the help of a scanner.



I was responding to BV's comment - "Doesn't look all that revealing to me."


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## bvibert (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


> I was responding to BV's comment - "Doesn't look all that revealing to me."



Yes, you can tell it's a dude, but aside from that there isn't much to see.

How long before celebrity scan pictures start hitting the internet??

For the record I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.  As a very infrequent flier I haven't put much thought into it.


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## WJenness (Nov 22, 2010)

I feel bad for this guy: 

http://gizmodo.com/5695522/tsa-screening-soaks-bladder-cancer-survivor-with-his-own-urine

-w


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

bvibert said:


> Yes, you can tell it's a dude, but aside from that there isn't much to see.
> 
> How long before celebrity scan pictures start hitting the internet??
> 
> For the record I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.  As a very infrequent flier I haven't put much thought into it.



I didn't want to get into details - but it looks like the dude hangs to the left and ball is higher then the other..  That's pretty good detail..  More detail then I wish my fellow travelers to have to show..


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## RootDKJ (Nov 22, 2010)

bvibert said:


> How long before celebrity scan pictures start hitting the internet??


+1


----------



## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

WJenness said:


> I feel bad for this guy:
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5695522/tsa-screening-soaks-bladder-cancer-survivor-with-his-own-urine
> 
> -w



thats just horrible...  there's way too many of these stories...


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## RootDKJ (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


> thats just horrible...  there's way too many of these stories...


I lol'd


----------



## Geoff (Nov 22, 2010)

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has been busily undermining the 4th Amendment for decades.   This is just another instance of road blocks.   The Supreme Court has ruled that it's OK to have illegal immigration road blocks and DUI road blocks.  

_The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated_

http://www.roadblock.org/federal/caseUSsitz.htm

In past Supreme Court rulings, the opinions talk about 'minimal inconvenience'.  They also say that everyone has to be treated equally.   I've flown at airports that selectively push a fraction of people through the X-Ray machine and everybody else just uses the metal detector.   If most people opt out of the X-Ray due to concerns about radiation exposure or privacy, it's not treating everyone equally and it's not 'minimal inconvenience' like "can I see some ID to prove citizenship" or "have you been drinking today" at a road block.

I'd bet this ends up in the Supereme Court eventually and they rule that random pat-down screenings are OK since it's for the public good and there is no alternative that doesn't involve *gasp* profiling *gasp*.   The way to fix this is in Congress where the funding for the TSA happens.


----------



## Geoff (Nov 22, 2010)




----------



## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)




----------



## Geoff (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


>



If I did that to some kid in an airport, I'd do 10 years of hard time.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

Geoff said:


> If I did that to some kid in an airport, I'd do 10 years of hard time.



There's worse videos out there...  This one was tame..


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## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2010)

bvibert said:


> Doesn't look all that revealing to me.



I agree.

It would appear the pat downs have the potential to be far more humiliating. 


I just don't see the scans as being that big of a deal.  It's really just a more technologically advanced system than the metal detectors people have had to walk through for decades.

I'm surprised the TSA just doesn't say, go through the scanner or don't fly.  You do have a choice to not fly.  There are certain things in life we have no say over.  I'm sure these scanners are just as dangerous to me as the flouride I drink in my water at home every day, which is to say, not very dangerous at all.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I agree.



You can clearly see his penis.. You can see the direction it's pointing... You can see which testicle is higher..


----------



## hammer (Nov 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I agree.
> 
> It would appear the pat downs have the potential to be far more humiliating.
> 
> ...



I'd guess that the scanners could mess up medical equipment so there are some who need to bypass them.

All of this is no big deal to me...but I don't fly often and haven't flown since the new rules/equipment have been in place so I reserve the right to change my mind.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


> You can clearly see his penis.. You can see the direction it's pointing... You can see which testicle is higher..



it's about as realistic as Jackie Treehorns drawing of a penis in the Big Lebowski.

My wang has been seen by strangers, actually less than strangers, classmates I saw everyday, since 7th grade gym class.  Same thing as an adult going to a gym.

A cartoon of my nakid body that a stranger inspects, is the least of my worries.


----------



## billski (Nov 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> My wang has been seen by strangers, actually less than strangers, classmates I saw everyday, since 7th grade gym class.  Same thing as an adult going to a gym.


True for men, but as I understand it, women's locker rooms have a much higher degree of modesty.


----------



## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> My wang has been seen by strangers, actually less than strangers, classmates I saw everyday, since 7th grade gym class.  Same thing as an adult going to a gym.



Good for you... i think... 

I'm not as comfortable being seen naked under any circumstance by anyone except my girl and my Doc..


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2010)

dmc said:


> Good for you... i think...
> 
> I'm not as comfortable being seen naked under any circumstance by anyone except my girl and my Doc..



everyone is different, so I can't fault you for feeling the way you do.   If they were able to blurr 'it' more, would it make a difference?


----------



## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> everyone is different, so I can't fault you for feeling the way you do.   If they were able to blurr 'it' more, would it make a difference?



As long as someone(a person) has control over this - it cannot be trusted..   Again - I'm a security guy..  People can't be trusted..Especially with some of TSA comments and behavior I've witnessed(And complained about)

Also - it may not be a big deal to you - but i am afraid of built up radiation.  I know I get it in the plane..  But there's no way around that..  I can avoid the scans..  I don't even like using a microwave oven.  I'd like to get rid of it..


----------



## gmcunni (Nov 22, 2010)

maybe we can combine TSA and Obama's healthcare program.. 

get radiologists to man the xray machines and they can consult on fully body imaging to identify problems before they get worse.  have a general practitioner do the pat down -  a quick *COUGH* while checking for concealed weapons will uncover that hernia before it is a problem.


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## WJenness (Nov 22, 2010)

Has anyone seen the new TSA bumper stickers?





</sarcasm>

-w


----------



## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2010)

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/videos/?uri=channels/390088/1090203 

:blink::blink::blink:


----------



## skidbump (Nov 22, 2010)

From Penn and Tellers website


Federal V.I.P Penn - 11/13/02

Last Thursday I was flying to LA on the Midnight flight. I went through security my usual sour stuff. I beeped, of course, and was shuttled to the "toss-em" line. A security guy came over. I assumed the position. I had a button up shirt on that was untucked. He reached around while he was behind me and grabbed around my front pocket. I guess he was going for my flashlight, but the area could have loosely been called "crotch." I said, "You have to ask me before you touch me or it's assault."

He said, "Once you cross that line, I can do whatever I want."

I said that wasn't true. I say that I have the option of saying no and not flying. He said, "Are you going to let me search you, or do I just throw you out?"

I said, "Finish up, and then call the police please."

When he was finished with my shoes, he said, "Okay, you can go."

I said, "I'd like to see your supervisor and I'd like LVPD to come here as well. I was assaulted by you."

He said, "You're free to go, there's no problem."

I said, "I have a problem, please send someone over."

They sent a guy over and I said that I'd like to register a complaint. I insisted on his name and badge number. I filled it out with my name. The supervisor, I think trying to intimidate me, asked for my license, and I gave it to him happily as he wrote down information. I kept saying, "Please get the police," and they kept saying, "You're free to go, we don't need the police." I insisted and they got a higher up, female, supervisor. I was polite, cold, and a little funny. "Anyone is welcome to grab my crotch, I don't require dinner and a movie, just ask me. Is that asking too much? You wanna grab my crotch, please ask. Does that seem like a crazy person to you?" I had about 4 of them standing around. Finally Metro PD shows up. It's really interesting. First of all, the cop is a BIG P&T fan and that ain't hurting. Second, I get the vibe that he is WAY sick of these federal leather-sniffers. He has that vibe that real cops have toward renta-cops. This is working WAY to my advantage, so I play it.

The supervisor says to the cop, 'He's free to go. We have no problem, you don't have to be here." Which shows me that the Feds are afraid of local. This is really cool. She says, "We have no trouble and he doesn't want to miss his flight."

I say, "I can take an early morning flight or a private jet. " The cop says, "If I have a citizen who is saying he was assaulted, you can't just send me away."

I tell the cop the story, in a very funny way. The cop, the voice of sanity says, "What's wrong with you people? You can't just grab a guy's crank without his permission." I tell him that my genitals weren't grabbed and the cop says, "I don't care, you can't do that to people. That's assault and battery in my book."

The supervisor says that they'll take care of the security guy. The cop says, "I'm not leaving until Penn tells me to. Now do you want to fill out all the paper work and show up in court, because I'll be right there beside you."

The supervisor says it's an internal matter, and they'll take care of it. "If you want to pursue this, we're going to have to go through the electronic evidence."

I say, "You mean videotape? Yeah, go get it."

She says, "Well, it'll take a long time, and you don't want to miss your flight. We have no problem with you, you're free to go."

The cop says, "Your guy grabbed his crank. That ain't right."

So, I fill out all the paper work and insist on a number to call to register a complaint. She says that I filled out a complaint, and I say, "I want more, give me another number. " She gives me a number that I find out later has been disconnected. I leave. I have a card with the name and number on it and the bad 800 number for the FAA.

My flight is way delayed, so I go to Burger King with Glenn - and all the feds are now off duty and at BK and sneering at us.

The next day the woman in charge of public relations calls me to "do anything to make my McCarran experience more enjoyable." I was a little under the weather with allergies and busy, so I didn't call back until yesterday.

It took some phone tag, but I finally got the woman on the phone. I was very cool and sweet. I explained the problem. "Do you allow your crotch to be grabbed without being asked?" I didn't exaggerate, I said that there was nothing sexual, I wasn't hurt, and it wasn't my genitals. I just said it was wrong. She said "Well, your feedback is really important because most people are afraid of us." She said, "I'd love to meet you so we could clear this up, and everyone wants to meet a celebrity." She said she had watched the videotape and there was no sound, but she saw him reach around. She said she couldn't tell me what was being done to him but . . . and I stopped her and said, she shouldn't do anything wrong.

I said that I had talked to two lawyers and they said it was really a weird case because no one knows if he can be charged with assault and battery while working in that job. But I told her, that some of my lawyer friends really wanted to find out. She said, "Well, we're very new to this job . . ." and I said, "Yeah, so we need these test cases to find out where you stand."

She said, "Well, you know a LOT about this." I said, "Well, it's not really the right word, but freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more of it."

She said, "Well, the airport is very important to all of our incomes and we don't want bad press. It'll hurt everyone, but you have to do what you think is right. But, if you give me your itinerary every time you fly, I'll be at the airport with you and we can make sure it's very pleasant for you."

I have no idea what this means, does it mean that they have a special area where all the friskers are topless showgirls, "We have nothing to hide, do you?" I have no idea. She pushes me for the next time I'm flying. I tell her I'm flying to Chicago around 2 on Sunday, if she wants to get that security guy there to sneer at me. She says, she'll be there, and it'll be very easy for me. I have no idea what this means.

I tell her that I'm still thinking about pressing charges, and I don't just care about me, it's freedom in general. I say the only thing that was good about it, was that while they were dealing with me, maybe they weren't beating up people in wheelchairs. It was amazing. All she was trying to do was make me happy. She said she'd burned a CD ROM of my video and it was being sent all around and they were going to change their training. She said, "We're federal employees, we're working for you, you pay us and we want customer satisfaction. It doesn't matter what the law is, we have to make you very happy so your flying experience is a pleasurable one, and most people don't give us this kind of intelligent feedback."

So, that was it. I'm flying on Sunday, I have no idea what will happen. How crazy is this? Do I really have some sort of mysterious VIP status to shut me up? Should I press charges? She said she was going to talk to the cop. I said he didn't see anything. She said, "Well, he may be able to see the forest for the trees, because he was right there." I quoted his "crank" comment and she laughed and then knew that was a very bad sign. I said, "He'll tell you I was polite, cold, angry, and funny" - that's more than should be expected of me. I still don't know what I'm going to do, but my advice to everyone is complain all you can and call the cops. I think it might make a little difference. Maybe you can become a VIP too.

Penn


----------



## dmc (Nov 22, 2010)

http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html


----------



## Edd (Nov 22, 2010)

This is lose-lose situation for the government.  Are they threatening "liberty" or soft on terrorism?  Pick your poison.  Complaints will flood in regardless.


----------



## billski (Nov 22, 2010)

SNL managed a little levity over the situation

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-tsa/1261478/


----------



## jaja111 (Nov 22, 2010)

I can't wait to see this thread get to 15 pages after the holiday. I think we know a sh&^st)rm is coming once the number of people "groped" grows to a yet unknown critical mass. Will it be this Thanksgiving? The coming Xmas holiday? or the next busy flying time?


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2010)

Edd said:


> This is lose-lose situation for the government.  Are they threatening "liberty" or soft on terrorism?  Pick your poison.  Complaints will flood in regardless.



agreed 100%

I wonder if those who are so against these new TSA methods will sing the same tune if 1 plane goes down and 100 people die and it's determined a simple scan or pat down could've prevented that tragedy.

again, not everyone will agree with me, but I'll happily get in the nudey scanner if it means saving just one life.  

Sharing cartoon photos of your genitals saves lifes!


----------



## riverc0il (Nov 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I wonder if those who are so against these new TSA methods will sing the same tune if 1 plane goes down and 100 people die and it's determined a simple scan or pat down could've prevented that tragedy.


I don't care if people are pro or con regarding this issue--this above question has amazing depth to ponder over. And it does not even matter if the scanner or pat down would have helped or not... if it goes away and a terrorist plot succeeds, you can guarantee that controls will only get even tighter in reaction as the 'what ifs' fly.

I also agree with DHS's comment that the pat downs seem more invasive than the scanner image. Personally, I don't see any problem with the images that have been leaked out per one of the recent links above. I think any TSA person scanning the images is going to be pretty clinical about it after about the 1000th image.

I wonder if they could turn up the "fuzz factor" just a little bit? Or even better, it would be great if they could automate an initial check via computer so for 99% of people, no image is ever even looked at by human eyes and only forward suspicious looking images to a high level TSA official? I dunno. Something to make people feel a little better about it.

NPR's On The Media had a great segment on this issue. Google On The Media and download the latest podcast for some stimulating discussion and Q&A on the topic.

I think the biggest argument against the scanners is that terrorists will resort to cavities for hiding explosives. Or as one of the link's above suggested, if you have a medical reason for needing a private screening, a terrorist could take advantage of a handicap situation and pack something somehow that way.

I think billski mentioned that since 9/11, the TSA has not foiled a terrorist plot yet. That is something to think about.

I appreciate the notion that by creating this type of situation, the terrorists have "scored a point" if you would. However, I say that is selling America short. This country has continued to have controversies involving laws and freedoms. Our constitution and bill or rights are written in such a way as to not provide definitive answers to these types of problems, but only a method for attempting to resolve the problem at hand. That this is even an issue for discussion and that we can disagree and besiege the government to change is awesome. The terrorists score no points in this regard, they don't have this type of freedom to openly and flagrantly criticize and oppose their government. 

:flag:

I have yet to come to a definite conclusion and opinion on this issue. I see the points pro and con. In regards to the 4th Amendment, the key word is "unreasonable". Is this an unreasonable search? Limited only to ensuring the safe operation of aircraft known to be a desired terrorist weapon of choice? I don't know. Would certainly be a shame if it took the Supreme Court to decide that though. Regardless of pro or con, I suspect that this is going to be decided by the people--as noted above, this is really bad PR for both the TSA and the Government. There is already a massive populist revolt against... well, general undefined malaise. And this seems to be a great issue to unite both ends of the spectrum in perhaps the one thing everyone an agree upon. :lol:


----------



## billski (Nov 23, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Sharing cartoon photos of your genitals saves lifes!



Ask your wife/mother/sister/SO if she feels the same way.


I know you are half-joking, but from what I've seen, women are much more opposed to either method than men are. 
Some men like to strut around like roosters anyways.


----------



## billski (Nov 23, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I think billski mentioned that since 9/11, the TSA has not foiled a terrorist plot yet. That is something to think about.



While this is a curious statistic, the question we will never know the answer to is, how effective has this screening been as a deterrent?  And at what point is there enough deterrents?  The fact that substantial amounts of explosive made it onto a cargo plane is more concerning to me.

Hijacked planes in many aspects are very unique - they are human-controlled, guided missiles. Since 9/11 pretty much all people have thought about what they would do if confronted with a hijacker.  Before 9/11 most had never even thought it could happen.  The call to arms onboard would be great and sudden if confronted.  Most people now days would be quick to notify the crew if they thought a passenger was behaving oddly.
The "thousand cuts" strategy concerns me much more.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 23, 2010)

billski said:


> Ask your wife/mother/sister/SO if she feels the same way.
> 
> 
> I know you are half-joking, but from what I've seen, women are much more opposed to either method than men are.
> Some men like to strut around like roosters anyways.



had the conversation the other night at the dinner table with my wife and mother inlaw.  Both think the cartoon images are harmless and would much prefer that than being groped.  They are two of the most modest women you'll ever meet.


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

Edd said:


> This is lose-lose situation for the government.  Are they threatening "liberty" or soft on terrorism?  Pick your poison.  Complaints will flood in regardless.



How about balance... Why does everything have to be black and white..


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> had the conversation the other night at the dinner table with my wife and mother inlaw.  Both think the cartoon images are harmless and would much prefer that than being groped.  They are two of the most modest women you'll ever meet.



Wow... OK... Of the most modest women I'll ever meet say so then it must be..
I back down..   

I've had the conversation with my Mother - she doesn't want to fly anymore..
She finds the pictures offensive and doesn't want someone touching her breast prosthesis from her bout with cancer.


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

billski said:


> While this is a curious statistic, the question we will never know the answer to is, how effective has this screening been as a deterrent?  And at what point is there enough deterrents?  .



At what point do they become a distraction...?


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

billski said:


> Ask your wife/mother/sister/SO if she feels the same way.
> 
> 
> I know you are half-joking, but from what I've seen, women are much more opposed to either method than men are.
> Some men like to strut around like roosters anyways.



I don't know - his constant comments of "cartoon photos" seems a bit belittling.. 

He seems to thing that it's more batman then real life..


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> I don't know - his constant comments of "cartoon photos" seems a bit belittling..
> 
> He seems to thing that it's more batman then real life..



belittling????.........please

I've commented several times that you're entitled to feel how you do.


That doesn't change my feelings that the images are basically cartoons.  There's no way of telling who a person is while looking at the images.


----------



## riverc0il (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> I don't know - his constant comments of "cartoon photos" seems a bit belittling..


Well, there certainly is no way to identify who an individual is based on these images, at least based on what I have seen.


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> belittling????.........please
> 
> I've commented several times that you're entitled to feel how you do.
> 
> ...



My opinion... sorry...
Your comment comes across as belittling to those of us that find this offensive....


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Well, there certainly is no way to identify who an individual is based on these images, at least based on what I have seen.



right...


----------



## skidbump (Nov 23, 2010)

Im sorry but its like your standing there naked with complete strangers looking at you on a screen.Thats just not right.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> My opinion... sorry...
> Your comment comes across as belittling to those of us that find this offensive....



my comment is my opinion.  You find my opinion offensive?

My opinion is the images look like cartoon characters.


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 23, 2010)

I, for one, have no intention of flying anywhere tomorrow, because it's going to suck.


----------



## o3jeff (Nov 23, 2010)

ctenidae said:


> I, for one, have no intention of flying anywhere tomorrow, because it's going to suck.



I have to laugh at the everyone choose the search thing tomorrow. I am pretty sure the TSA could care less if they have to feel up 10 people or 1000 and the time it takes, what are all these people that are making a statement going to do tomorrow when they miss their flights and have to try and find another flight along with spending more money on another ticket.


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> my comment is my opinion.  You find my opinion offensive?
> 
> My opinion is the images look like cartoon characters.



I find your comments about cartoons belittling to how I feel.  thats all.. Probably doesn't matter... but i thiought I should let you know...


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> I have to laugh at the everyone choose the search thing tomorrow. I am pretty sure the TSA could care less if they have to feel up 10 people or 1000 and the time it takes, what are all these people that are making a statement going to do tomorrow when they miss their flights and have to try and find another flight along with spending more money on another ticket.




It's going to gum things up based upon current configurations I've seen.  Security areas don't have a whole lot of space.. The 3 people including me that chose pat down over scan - screwed things up the other day..  Luggage piled up...  no where to put it..  People standing around.. etc...

Complaints will run high..

I'd show up early.. But I always show up 2 hours before a flight anyway...


----------



## midd (Nov 23, 2010)

what prompts a scan?  is it like the old SSSSS on the boarding pass that prompted a secondary screening?  

Only ask because I just flew from DCA-BOS and didn't get scanned, nor saw anyone in the machine during my brief time in security.


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## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

midd said:


> what prompts a scan?  is it like the old SSSSS on the boarding pass that prompted a secondary screening?
> 
> Only ask because I just flew from DCA-BOS and didn't get scanned, nor saw anyone in the machine during my brief time in security.



If you go through the magnetometer and it goes off you'll be scanned.

or you may be selected "randomly" - especially if your a hot chick as in one case I read about.

in Columbus and San Diego - they close the magnetometers and siphon off the line to the scanners...


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## drjeff (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> If you go through the magnetometer and it goes off you'll be scanned.
> 
> or you may be selected "randomly" - especially if your a hot chick as in one case I read about.
> 
> in Columbus and San Diego - they close the magnetometers and siphon off the line to the scanners...



I was randomly selected when I last flew about a month ago for the scan. Didn't set off the metal detector, and was traveling with just my almost 5 year old and almost 7 year old kids.  

No biggie to me.  Took maybe 15-20 seconds as I recall, including the TSA agent's instructions to me on how to position myself


----------



## bigbog (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> .......or you may be selected "randomly" - especially if your a hot chick as in one case I read about......


Heh, bet there were a few editors following up on that one to establish its legitimacy...LOL.  Probably some street walkin' bimbo eager to seek out a lawyer as well....


----------



## mondeo (Nov 23, 2010)

Where was all the uproar over the shoe removal? I'd much rather go through the scanner than take my shoes off. It would be nice if I could have that choice.


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## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

bigbog said:


> Heh, bet there were a few editors following up on that one to establish its legitimacy...LOL.  Probably some street walkin' bimbo eager to seek out a lawyer as well....



Actually she is a journalist.
http://wewontfly.com/tsa-videos-meg-mclain


----------



## Edd (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> How about balance... Why does everything have to be black and white..



I doesn't IMO.  I was just speaking to the inevitability of complaints no matter what action is taken.

I feel like the liberty vs. terrorism thing puts the conservatives in a sticky situation.  Sounds like a conflict for them to me.  I haven't heard what their position is on this.


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

Edd said:


> I doesn't IMO.  I was just speaking to the inevitability of complaints no matter what action is taken.
> 
> I feel like the liberty vs. terrorism thing puts the conservatives in a sticky situation.  Sounds like a conflict for them to me.  I haven't heard what their position is on this.



It's strangely non-partisan right now...
Maybe it's the issue that brings us all back together!


----------



## billski (Nov 23, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> had the conversation the other night at the dinner table with my wife and mother inlaw.  Both think the cartoon images are harmless and would much prefer that than being groped.  They are two of the most modest women you'll ever meet.


   In my circles, they don't like either, but would much prefer being subjected to the scan.  OK, we've got a sample size of six.  It will be interesting to see how the other 150 million weigh in.


----------



## dmc (Nov 23, 2010)

billski said:


> In my circles, they don't like either, but would much prefer being subjected to the scan.  OK, we've got a sample size of six.  It will be interesting to see how the other 150 million weigh in.



And they are... It gets louder every day...


----------



## drjeff (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> It's strangely non-partisan right now...
> Maybe it's the issue that brings us all back together!



Nah, I figure the tax issues coming up with keep the partisan bicker going for a while :smash:

Sadly enough it almost seems like the last time the country was really all together was in the days/weeks/months immediately after 9-11, and I'm sure that all can agree that we DON'T need another event like that to happen


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 23, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> I have to laugh at the everyone choose the search thing tomorrow. I am pretty sure the TSA could care less if they have to feel up 10 people or 1000 and the time it takes, what are all these people that are making a statement going to do tomorrow when they miss their flights and have to try and find another flight along with spending more money on another ticket.



Probably be a breaze getting through if you don't opt out, though.


----------



## billski (Nov 23, 2010)

ctenidae said:


> Probably be a breaze getting through if you don't opt out, though.


My daughter flew tonight.  She said hardly anyone was being diverted to the FBS, most people were simply routed to the metal detector.  My guess is that the TSA pulled a preemptive strike and are avoiding the issue all together.


----------



## riverc0il (Nov 23, 2010)

dmc said:


> If you go through the magnetometer and it goes off you'll be scanned.
> 
> or you may be selected "randomly" - especially if your a hot chick as in one case I read about.
> 
> in Columbus and San Diego - they close the magnetometers and siphon off the line to the scanners...


Hold a sec... do I understand correctly that not everyone is scanned? Only folks that are either randomly selected (well, that seems pointless) or those that set off the detector? I think the random thing sucks and is dumb, that is not going to deter any one and only suggests the possibility of profiling. But if only those folks that set off the first alarm are going on to the next scan or pat down, I say NO PROBLEM. I am 100% OK with these scans if they are primarily being used as an additional precaution when an initial detector is set off.


----------



## neil (Nov 23, 2010)

The metal plate I have on my collar bone means I'm 100% going to get the pat down...can't wait!


----------



## dmc (Nov 24, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Hold a sec... do I understand correctly that not everyone is scanned? Only folks that are either randomly selected (well, that seems pointless) or those that set off the detector? I think the random thing sucks and is dumb, that is not going to deter any one and only suggests the possibility of profiling. But if only those folks that set off the first alarm are going on to the next scan or pat down, I say NO PROBLEM. I am 100% OK with these scans if they are primarily being used as an additional precaution when an initial detector is set off.



Even worse - they tend to siphon off the line so if they feel like scanning they will pull the next 10 out of the line for scans..  If you leave a piece of paper in your pocket during the scan then cue the porn music... Your getting the pat down baby..


----------



## dmc (Nov 24, 2010)

neil said:


> The metal plate I have on my collar bone means I'm 100% going to get the pat down...can't wait!



Yup - they are going to rub your nugs for something they find in your shoulder...


----------



## ctenidae (Nov 24, 2010)

dmc said:


> If you leave a piece of paper in your pocket during the scan then cue the porn music... Your getting the pat down baby..



I had a brilliant million dollar idea last night, unfortunately about a month too late to make money- underwear with witty sayings printed in metallic ink that will show up on the scans. I'm thinking from the simple "Eat Me" to the obligatory Benjamin Franklin quote, there's a huge range of possibilities. Even two-parters for people travelling in pairs, with the opening of a joke on one pair of undies, and the punchline on the next.

Would have made millions, I tell you.


----------



## Geoff (Nov 24, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Hold a sec... do I understand correctly that not everyone is scanned? Only folks that are either randomly selected (well, that seems pointless) or those that set off the detector? I think the random thing sucks and is dumb, that is not going to deter any one and only suggests the possibility of profiling. But if only those folks that set off the first alarm are going on to the next scan or pat down, I say NO PROBLEM. I am 100% OK with these scans if they are primarily being used as an additional precaution when an initial detector is set off.



You understand correctly.   Most people just pass through the metal detector.   In the Supreme Court rulings about road blocks, everybody had to be treated identically.  Selecting people at random for additional searches is unconstitutional.  I think that if this gets challenged, it will be "everybody or nobody".


----------



## Dr Skimeister (Nov 24, 2010)

My understanding is that with the new "pat down" regulations, the TSA is on track to handle more packages than UPS and FedEx this holiday season.


----------



## dmc (Nov 24, 2010)

Dr Skimeister said:


> My understanding is that with the new "pat down" regulations, the TSA is on track to handle more packages than UPS and FedEx this holiday season.



bada boom.... chiiiiiiing


----------



## dmc (Nov 24, 2010)

ctenidae said:


> I had a brilliant million dollar idea last night, unfortunately about a month too late to make money- underwear with witty sayings printed in metallic ink that will show up on the scans. I'm thinking from the simple "Eat Me" to the obligatory Benjamin Franklin quote, there's a huge range of possibilities. Even two-parters for people travelling in pairs, with the opening of a joke on one pair of undies, and the punchline on the next.
> 
> Would have made millions, I tell you.



I've seen underwear with fig leaves in metallic paint to cover the junk for sale on the net..

Thats a bit further then I'd go with my "protest"...  I don't actually want to get stripped or sent to jail..


----------



## bigbog (Nov 24, 2010)

dmc said:


> Actually she is a journalist.
> http://wewontfly.com/tsa-videos-meg-mclain



...Ok..:-D, but my indoctrination to journalists was in working for a media organization, "church" actually....some excellent journalists = their foreign correspondents, but some hardly deserved a job...and while they have one the incompetent ones often think of themselves as god's gift to society, hence the title doesn't exactly cut it...all the time..for people who've, at times, tried to work with them.  I think one could see something like this coming on as soon as the Bush administration bent over to the ACLU over the topic of "profiling".  Once you rule out common sense by use of our eyesight and brainpower = the topic got turned into a legal circus imho..


----------



## dmc (Nov 24, 2010)

bigbog said:


> ...Ok..:-D, fwiw...I think one could see something like this coming on as soon as the Bush administration bent over to the ACLU over the topic of "profiling".  Once you rule out common sense by use of our eyesight and brainpower = the topic got turned into a circus imho.



Problem is - at least to me - is we're looking for bombs and not bad guys..

Bulges and not behavior..   I think it's OK to profile people based upon behavior and background checks..


----------



## bigbog (Nov 24, 2010)

dmc said:


> ...   I think it's OK to profile people based upon behavior and background checks..



Yep...totally agree with ya'.


----------



## wa-loaf (Nov 24, 2010)

*Working in the taint mines*


----------



## HD333 (Nov 24, 2010)

A friend emailed me the solution:

Here's the solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at  the Airports: 

Install a booth that passengers can step into that will not  x-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on your body.  It would be a win-win for everyone, and there would be none of  this crap about racial profiling and this method would eliminate a long and expensive trial. 

Justice would be quick and swift. 

 This is so simple that it's brilliant. I can see it now.  You're in the Airport terminal and you hear a muffled  explosion. 

 Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA  system, "Attention standby  passengers.  We now have a seat available on  flight number 4665 .... Paging maintenance. Shop Vac needed in booth number  4."


----------



## o3jeff (Nov 25, 2010)

From watching the news last night it appears the "Opt Out" campaign wasn't much of an issue.


----------



## gmcunni (Nov 25, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> From watching the news last night it appears the "Opt Out" campaign wasn't much of an issue.



watching the news - saw a guy strip down to his speedo to go through the line and you could hear everybody telling the guy to put his cloths back on... in another segment some woman wore a bikini and nobody seemed to mind.


----------



## dmc (Nov 25, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> From watching the news last night it appears the "Opt Out" campaign wasn't much of an issue.



I'm hearing they dialed down the scanners..  Not as many people selected so not as many to opt out.   Which is great..


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Nov 25, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Hold a sec... do I understand correctly that not everyone is scanned? Only folks that are either randomly selected (well, that seems pointless) or those that set off the detector? I think the random thing sucks and is dumb, that is not going to deter any one and only suggests the possibility of profiling. But if only those folks that set off the first alarm are going on to the next scan or pat down, I say NO PROBLEM. I am 100% OK with these scans if they are primarily being used as an additional precaution when an initial detector is set off.



That might be the case now but the TSA's intent is to eventually make the scanners the primary method of screening.


----------



## Geoff (Nov 26, 2010)




----------



## billski (Nov 26, 2010)




----------



## powpig2002 (Nov 26, 2010)

Geoff said:


>



that's just what the terrorists wanted to happen


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Nov 28, 2010)

A new PSA from the TSA:


----------



## legalskier (Dec 1, 2010)

*Mark Ruffalo, 'terrorist'*

_*Mark Ruffalo on terrorist watchlist*
Mark Ruffalo, the Hollywood actor, has been added to a US terror advisory list after he promoted a documentary about the effects of natural gas drilling.
The 43-year-old year old actor was placed on the watch list by Pennsylvania's Office of Homeland Security after he arranged screenings for the "Gasland" documentary. The film won the special jury prize at this year's Sundance Film festival and chronicles how communities have been affected by a boom in natural gas drilling. In Pennsylvania the film, written and directed by Josh Fox, shows a resident who is able to set fire to his tap water.***_





That's some good police work there, Lou.
:lol:


----------



## RootDKJ (Dec 2, 2010)

There's an opportunity everywhere... :lol:
http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment


----------



## SkiDork (Dec 3, 2010)

here's another strategy:

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/11/25/vo.bikini.tsa.check.wabc


----------



## BeanoNYC (Dec 3, 2010)

Great article on the subject.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/why-the-tsa-cant-back-down/67337/


----------



## darent (Dec 5, 2010)

HD333 said:


> A friend emailed me the solution:
> 
> Here's the solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at  the Airports:
> 
> ...


this would certainly stop the bombers, put this into effect like " NOW"


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Dec 5, 2010)

HD333 said:


> A friend emailed me the solution:
> 
> Here's the solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners at  the Airports:
> 
> ...



Sadly I can jut imagine the lawsuits and the crys to have them removed when a terrorist goes boom...


----------



## gmcunni (Jul 20, 2011)

made me think of this thread


----------



## bvibert (Jul 20, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> made me think of this thread



I wonder what the old gal did to get taken off of the plane?


----------



## ALLSKIING (Jul 20, 2011)

bvibert said:


> I wonder what the old gal did to get taken off of the plane?



probably would not shut up ...20 feet LOL


----------



## ctenidae (Jul 20, 2011)

You get your hands off me. I am peeing myself. You get your hands off me.

If she needs 20 feet that badly, good thing she wasn't in coach...


----------



## Nick (Jul 20, 2011)

RootDKJ said:


> There's an opportunity everywhere... :lol:
> http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment



That's actually a really creative idea. Like!


----------



## Nick (Jul 20, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> made me think of this thread



Man, that's a thankless job. :roll:


----------



## Geoff (Jul 20, 2011)




----------



## Geoff (Jul 20, 2011)




----------



## legalskier (Apr 18, 2012)

_*Police say Oregon man strips off all his clothes in protest of airport security screeners*
*** The incident report said John E. Brennan’s actions Tuesday evening caused some passengers to cover their eyes and their children’s eyes while others looked, laughed and took photos. Two screening lanes were temporarily closed. Police say the Portland man was arrested for investigation of indecent exposure and disorderly conduct. ***_
Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ty-screeners/2012/04/18/gIQAfbmjPT_story.html


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## ctenidae (Apr 18, 2012)

FTFA: _He missed his flight to San Jose, Calif._

Classic.

Interesting, though, that the "crime" is indecent exposure and disorderly conduct, not any terrorism-related charge, which you'd expect.


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## gmcunni (Jun 26, 2012)




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