# vermont powder?



## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

How do you guys get to vt area resorts in a snowstorm? Mount snow is barely makeable for a day drip at 2 1/2 hours with no storm. Maybe do that twice a year max. Local is where it's at. I'm sorry, but talking about helmets and you drive through vt backroads in a snowstorm? You're more likely to die on the road. Do you know how dangerous trying to drive 100's of miles in a blizzard is? And how are you supposed to get there for first tracks/first chair when the roads are snow covered? A hotel is a neccesity and that's more money and more time off from work ect. Very difficult to score fresh untracked powder anywhere on ec unless you live local. And how long would it take you to drive from hartford, ct to mount snow in the middle of a blizzard? 7 hours one way? Assuming you can get there alive with your vehicle in one piece. You can only go 30-35mph max the whole way and maybe 20mph on side roads if it's really bombing out. Yeah obviously a hotel is necessary.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 12, 2014)

How much longer must this persist?


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> How much longer must this persist?



It's a fair question. 

What kind of crack are some of the people on this forum smoking?


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 12, 2014)

I put my Jeep Wrangler in 4WD and drive it through the snow.  I often drive to the slopes in snow. In fact, I love fourwheeling in deep snow and hate when everything gets plowed. I guess it's like preferring skiing in natural snow to groomed trails. 

 A few years ago at Killington we woke up to 2 feet of snow. There was snow up to the Jeep's headlights. Didn't even shovel it out, just put it in first gear and drove out of the parking spot. The guy shoveling out his Cadillac next to me looked like he wanted to kill me. :lol:

Where I live I almost always have to get a hotel room. Everything is at least 2 hours away, except for Mountain Creek and I hate that place and won't pay to go there. I'll run out to the Poconos for a day trip but even for Hunter (3 hour drive)  I'll get a room overnight. Skiing midweek helps because everything cost a bit less and I can get better deals on tickets online but if you want to play then you gotta pay. Skiing is an expensive hobby. 

 One day I plan to move to where I can have a "local" mountain but that's still a few years off so I make the best of it.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 12, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> It's a fair question.
> 
> What kind of crack are some of the people on this forum smoking?



It's not a fair question.

For starters, it's not a question at all when you answer the very thing you're postulating (and bizarrely so in this instance).

Secondly, it's solely intended to start a ruckus, be controversial, and initiate conflict and argument........like everything else you've done on this board.

I'm out.


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's not a fair question.
> 
> For starters, it's not a question at all when you answer the very thing you're postulating (and bizarrely so in this instance).
> 
> ...



How does this initiate conflict, maybe many of the members stay at hotels? Maybe if people lowered the hostility level down then it wouldn't be a problem.


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## snoseek (Jan 12, 2014)

In


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> I put my Jeep Wrangler in 4WD and drive it through the snow.  I often drive to the slopes in snow. In fact, I love fourwheeling in deep snow and hate when everything gets plowed. I guess it's like preferring skiing in natural snow to groomed trails.
> 
> A few years ago at Killington we woke up to 2 feet of snow. There was snow up to the Jeep's headlights. Didn't even shovel it out, just put it in first gear and drove out of the parking spot. The guy shoveling out his Cadillac next to me looked like he wanted to kill me. :lol:
> 
> ...



I talked about this in the other thread. Getting going is not the problem. Stopping is or some jackass running into you.


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## gmcunni (Jan 12, 2014)

preposition in advance of the storm.  sucks to be stuck on the highway when the lifts start spinning


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## snoseek (Jan 12, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> I talked about this in the other thread. Getting going is not the problem. Stopping is or some jackass running into you.


I just make sure to wear my helmet while driving. Gotta be the first in line for the Bluebird!


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

It's absolutely fair. Everyone talks about scoring pow in vt and people live hundreds of miles away. Just wondering what their plan is. Hotel? Or do they actually try to drive 10 hours + in a blizzard through impassable roads to get first tracks.


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> preposition in advance of the storm.  sucks to be stuck on the highway when the lifts start spinning



Ok. See every pow day I score first tracks is local. I don't see how to get to vt for powder first tracks. Lets say you have an overnight storm that stops at noon. Roads are a mess. Basically have to get a hotel before storm even hits and get to vt ahead right? Because that sounds like insanity trying to cross route 9 to mount snow in a blizzard. Hell the road would probably be shut down half the time anyway.


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## gmcunni (Jan 12, 2014)

some people sleep in their cars in the parking lot of the mountain or a nearby walmart.


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> some people sleep in their cars in the parking lot of the mountain or a nearby walmart.



Nutcases. LOL....That sounds comfortable in the middle of an ass cold blizzard. Is this the same set that needs a bubble chair to stay warm? I'm really confused now.


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## Tin (Jan 12, 2014)




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## gmcunni (Jan 12, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Nutcases. LOL....That sounds comfortable in the middle of an ass cold blizzard. Is this the same set that needs a bubble chair to stay warm? I'm really confused now.



well you can always pay $24 to stay at the TOR lodge near killington and hit the big K for fresh pow, assuming you can swing the day(s) off from work to hit the storm timing correctly.


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 12, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> I talked about this in the other thread. Getting going is not the problem. Stopping is or some jackass running into you.



You started a new thread while I was replying to the old one. 

My job entails driving all over, all day, every day in all types of weather. I drive in snowstorms all the time in my 2wd Ford Econoline van in the most congested state in the nation. If I worried about what people were going to do to me on the road I'd be a nervous wreck and never drive anywhere. If you start thinking about what MIGHT happen to you then you go nuts.  I live my life the best I can and deal with what it throws at me when it happens. 

I have raced cars, go four wheeling,  taken multiple defensive/performance driving courses and have a good snow car and a cell phone. Skiing is a dangerous sport and as a self employed person who works on my feet and uses my hands I probably shouldn't ski or hike or do half the things I do but I do it anyway because life is short and I want to enjoy it. Worrying about what might happen isn't enjoyable.


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## gmcunni (Jan 12, 2014)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/125226-Sleeping-in-cars-at-a-ski-area


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 12, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> well you can always pay $24 to stay at the TOR lodge near killington and hit the big K for fresh pow, assuming you can swing the day(s) off from work to hit the storm timing correctly.



It's why I put up with all the shit of being self employed. I see a snow storm is coming and rearrange the work schedule. If I can't work cuz of snow then off to the slopes I go.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 12, 2014)

Leave earlier + snow tires and I get to the mountains just fine.  Statistically driving in Boston rush hour traffic is probably more dangerous.


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## mriceyman (Jan 12, 2014)

Drive before the storm


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Leave earlier + snow tires and I get to the mountains just fine.  Statistically driving in Boston rush hour traffic is probably more dangerous.


Care to back up that statistic? We are talking per capita chances of a fatality.  Your chance of being in a wreck is obviously higher trying to drive 200 miles in a blizzard through cities and then onto back roads in vt than a normal rush hour commute on any *single day* of driving. Let's just be honest now.


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

mriceyman said:


> Drive before the storm



That would make sense.


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 12, 2014)

Here's a pic of my Jeep. Judge for yourself if it's capable of handing some snow.


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> You started a new thread while I was replying to the old one.
> 
> My job entails driving all over, all day, every day in all types of weather. I drive in snowstorms all the time in my 2wd Ford Econoline van in the most congested state in the nation. If I worried about what people were going to do to me on the road I'd be a nervous wreck and never drive anywhere. If you start thinking about what MIGHT happen to you then you go nuts.  I live my life the best I can and deal with what it throws at me when it happens.
> 
> I have raced cars, go four wheeling,  taken multiple defensive/performance driving courses and have a good snow car and a cell phone. Skiing is a dangerous sport and as a self employed person who works on my feet and uses my hands I probably shouldn't ski or hike or do half the things I do but I do it anyway because life is short and I want to enjoy it. Worrying about what might happen isn't enjoyable.


Sorry, just didn't want to derail the other thread! Hey what ever makes you feel comfortable/happy. I'm not comfortable with that personally though. Stay safe


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> Here's a pic of my Jeep. Judge for yourself it's capable of handing some snow.


Sick jeep! 
That thing could go through unplowed roads. 
BUT, just remember to go *slow* when you drive in snow because it doesn't stop any faster!


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

Is that all custom suspension work on it? I can't imagine that being stock


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 12, 2014)

I should probably include one of it in the snow. Nice to never have to shovel the driveway. :lol:


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## Snowlover (Jan 12, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> I should probably include one of it in the snow. Nice to never have to shovel the driveway. :lol:



I would take that thing offroad in the snow. That would be soooo much fun! Head to the tug hill with that thing and find a mellow 4wd trail and have at it!


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 12, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Is that all custom suspension work on it? I can't imagine that being stock



It's not stock. Set up for rock crawling since it had 500 miles on it. I take it out in blizzards for fun. My Jeep club goes snow wheeling all the time in the Poconos and camps out too. It's called the "February Freezeout."  I love driving it in the snow. I try to get out before the plows get out and ruin things. 

Of course I drive slow. Hitting the brakes hard in snow/ice is a death sentence. That's that's the last thing you do.


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> It's not stock. Set up for rock crawling since it had 500 miles on it. I take it out in blizzards for fun.
> 
> Of course I drive slow. Hitting the brakes hard in snow/ice is a death sentence. That's that's the last thing you do.



Well obviously you actually know how to drive in the snow, unlike the people in fake suv's I see spun out /smashed up every storm around here. These people are doing 50mph darting in between lanes on 100% snow covered roads like it's nothing on the highway.


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 13, 2014)

BTW, It's not snow that's the biggest problem but ice, specifically black ice. A few years ago at Killington early one morning we were driving the Jeep uphill towards the Snowshed lodge and and it LOOKED like the road was clear. The road was down to asphalt and looked wet. It wasn't, it was iced over. The sun was out but it must have been just below freezing. The road was cleared and plowed. All of a sudden, the Jeep totally swung around and fishtailed. I counter steered and got it straightened out. The guy in the next lane looked worried! :lol: All I remember is how fast my hands were moving on the steering wheel steering one way and then the other as the Jeep fishtailed it's way up the hill. 

Sooo....Bright sunny day just below freezing on a freshly plowed and salted road and I lost traction completely. I've never had that happen in snow. So you never know..


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Well obviously you actually know how to drive in the snow, unlike the people in fake suv's I see spun out /smashed up every storm around here. These people are doing 50mph darting in between lanes on 100% snow covered roads like it's nothing on the highway.



I know, I deal with that scenario all the time when I'm out working.  That's why I drive very defensively.

What's ironic is that for all the miles and days that I drive in bad weather, my work truck got hit while it was sitting in the parking lot of my apartment complex. My neighbor drove in and hit it. It was just sitting there.  I couldn't work for a week while it was being fixed so I went hiking and camping in the Catskills.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Care to back up that statistic? We are talking per capita chances of a fatality.  Your chance of being in a wreck is obviously higher trying to drive 200 miles in a blizzard through cities and then onto back roads in vt than a normal rush hour commute on any *single day* of driving. Let's just be honest now.



care to back that up with a statistic?


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## abc (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Nutcases.


You ask how people do it. But you don't like any of the answers and call them nutcase?

No wonder no one takes you seriously!


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

abc said:


> You ask how people do it. But you don't like any of the answers and call them nutcase?
> !


lol That's not how he does it anyway. The one who told me that. He doesn't sleep in his car in a blizzard. God some of the people on here.... The ignore list just keeps getting longer and longer.


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> care to back that up with a statistic?


I don't think they'd have statistics like that. Just use common sense

1)*One* day driving to work in boston from cambridge
2)*One* driving from boston to mount snow in a blizzard

Of those 2 days, which is more likely to result in an accident? Now if you choose to take that risk then that is up to you, but the answer is obvious. Am I really having this absurd of an argument. Just let it go. I can't be bothered with these silly debates on the most ridiculous of issues.


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> BTW, It's not snow that's the biggest problem but ice, specifically black ice. A few years ago at Killington early one morning we were driving the Jeep uphill towards the Snowshed lodge and and it LOOKED like the road was clear. The road was down to asphalt and looked wet. It wasn't, it was iced over. The sun was out but it must have been just below freezing. The road was cleared and plowed. All of a sudden, the Jeep totally swung around and fishtailed. I counter steered and got it straightened out. The guy in the next lane looked worried! :lol: All I remember is how fast my hands were moving on the steering wheel steering one way and then the other as the Jeep fishtailed it's way up the hill.
> 
> Sooo....Bright sunny day just below freezing on a freshly plowed and salted road and I lost traction completely. I've never had that happen in snow. So you never know..


Yeah couldn't agree more. Ice is horrible! Do you have any video's of your jeep in deep snow? I saw these sicks video's of guys in hummers in DEEP snow. Does you jeep have that kind of capability?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> I don't think they'd have statistics like that. Just use common sense
> 
> 1)*One* day driving to work in boston from cambridge
> 2)*One* driving from boston to mount snow in a blizzard
> ...



Those statistics most definitely exist; there's a multi-billion dollar industry based on such statistics called Automobile Insurance.  

Where are auto insurance rates higher?  300+ inch of snow a year Jay Peak, VT or in Boston?  

Where insurance rates are the highest = most dangerous places to operate a vehicle.  It's the basis for risk mitigation of the entire auto insurance industry.


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Those statistics most definitely exist; there's a multi-billion dollar industry based on such statistics called Automobile Insurance.
> 
> Where are auto insurance rates higher?  300+ inch of snow a year Jay Peak, VT or in Boston?
> 
> Where insurance rates are the highest = most dangerous places to operate a vehicle.  It's the basis for risk mitigation of the entire auto insurance industry.


Jay peak doesn't get 300 inches of snow a year. I've already shown that with numerous climate data sources. You're just going by some stupid claim by a ski area. 
 Per capita automobile fatalies are higher in rural area's than city. Insurance industry does risk based on the fact that you are more likely to get into a fender bender in a city. That's why insurance rates are higher. Obviously, theft/uninsured motorists and host of other things play into that well.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...facts-cities-safer-rural-areas-injury-deaths/

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810625.pdf

SO, per capita you are more likely to die in a rural area than a city. God, do I keep having to do this? You are arguing absurd positions. you are factually wrong here and I just gave you hard data. But you'll still argue and I'll be called the troll

This little thing we had here is the definition of getting completely proven wrong. Going to argue against nhtsa now? Are we in cahoots together? Consipriacy? How are you going to deflect this?


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Do you have any video's of your jeep in deep snow? I saw these sicks video's of guys in hummers in DEEP snow. Does you jeep have that kind of capability?



 Unfortunately we don't get much in the way of deep snow around here.  It will go thru 2 feet just fine. Problem is I don't have lockers or a winch so there are limits. I do know that a properly equipped and well driven Jeep will do fine in the snow. It's ice that's the problem, but that's true of any vehicle. 

 I guess when I head out west in a few years I'll find out how the Jeep does in the deep stuff. Can't wait. Plan to invest in new tires before then. Tires are very important in snow. A 2WD car with good snow tires will do better than an AWD SUV with street tires in the snow.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> Jay peak doesn't get 300 inches of snow a year. I've already shown that with numerous climate data sources. You're just going by some stupid claim by a ski area.
> Per capita automobile fatalies are higher in rural area's than city. Insurance industry does risk based on the fact that you are more likely to get into a fender bender in a city. That's why insurance rates are higher. Obviously, theft/uninsured motorists and host of other things play into that well.
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...facts-cities-safer-rural-areas-injury-deaths/
> 
> ...



but I thought you said statistics don't exist for such things???


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

Oh and deadhead....just to be clear I could give a rat's ass on a personal level what jay peaks snowfall total's are. I don't ski there. I have no dog in that fight. I just see a resort bs'ing so I'm going to call them on it. Period. If alta claimed as much snow as mount baker, I'd be calling them out too, but alta's claimed snowfall matches up with official nws climate stations.


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> but I thought you said statistics don't exist for such things???


I said for the specific one day even of driving in a blizzard vs commuting in a city. FOR ONE DAY IN A BLIZZARD. I don't see statistics for that.  It's just VERY frustrating going back and forth like this with someone who just doesn't get simple things.


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## Snowlover (Jan 13, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> Unfortunately we don't get much in the way of deep snow around here.  It will go thru 2 feet just fine. Problem is I don't have lockers or a winch so there are limits. I do know that a properly equipped and well driven Jeep will do fine in the snow. It's ice that's the problem, but that's true of any vehicle.
> 
> I guess when I head out west in a few years I'll find out how the Jeep does in the deep stuff. Can't wait. Plan to invest in new tires before then. Tires are very important in snow. A 2WD car with good snow tires will do better than an AWD SUV with street tires in the snow.


You should try tug hill! They get like 5 feet at a time! Where out west are you planning on moving?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2014)

fine dude.  stay home when a blizzard occurs and feel safe. 

I'll be at the mountain enjoying the fresh.


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> You should try tug hill! They get like 5 feet at a time! Where out west are you planning on moving?



 Not sure yet. Won't start looking at options until end of 2015 at the earliest. Got two kids graduating in 2016 and then I'm free. Just about anywhere out west sounds good to me. Can't wait to get out of Jersey.

 If I got a great job in northern New England I wouldn't rule it out either. I do want to live in the mountains. I have no desire to go where it's flat. I'm done with that!


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 13, 2014)

Snow is not the problem. Ice is. I was driving to Breckenridge on I-70 in mid November (2013) with the temp hovering around freezing, and I went through the Eisenhower tunnel, elevation 11,000 ft, and started on a 7% downgrade for roughly 8 miles to Silverthorne, elevation 8,000ish feet. Speed limit was 55, I was going 30. Hit ice and started going sideways, which has happened to me a couple of times before, expect this time I wasn't able to correct it. My F-150 hit the median guardrail at a 30 degree angle, which spun me around and made my backend hit as well. $9,800 in damage :uzi: Sure my premiums are gonna go up, but anyways man, unless you have studded tires, if you hit ice and don't get traction again, you're F*$&ed. 

Mt Snow is one of the worse roads I've been on (route 2 I think) for icing up. I'd consider getting studded tires or chains if you want to play it safe.

Was able to pull my bumper out so it wouldn't scrape my wheel when turning hard right, and still continued to proceed to Breck and had an awesome time. All depends on how you weigh risk vs reward.


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Snow is not the problem. Ice is. I was driving to Breckenridge on I-70 in mid November (2013) with the temp hovering around freezing, and I went through the Eisenhower tunnel, elevation 11,000 ft, and started on a 7% downgrade for roughly 8 miles to Silverthorne, elevation 8,000ish feet. Speed limit was 55, I was going 30. Hit ice and started going sideways, which has happened to me a couple of times before, expect this time I wasn't able to correct it. My F-150 hit the median guardrail at a 30 degree angle, which spun me around and made my backend hit as well. $9,800 in damage :uzi: Sure my premiums are gonna go up, but anyways man, unless you have studded tires, if you hit ice and don't get traction again, you're F*$&ed.



 Glad you are ok! That pretty much happened to me. Fortunately I was able to steer out of it and there wasn't much traffic or a guardrail about. 

 Ice is the devil! I'll take a foot of snow over a quarter inch of ice anyday. If/when I live in snow country I'll be investing in either chains or studded tires.


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 13, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> I'll take a foot of snow over a quarter inch of ice anyday.



Ditto


Funny (or ironic?) thing is they closed the interstate westbound 20 minutes after that happened.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 13, 2014)

Love is in the air.


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## Savemeasammy (Jan 13, 2014)




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## ScottySkis (Jan 13, 2014)

So snowy lover were do like to make turns?


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## Savemeasammy (Jan 13, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


>



Did you check the expiration date on the can?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marcski (Jan 13, 2014)

Free GSS!


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## ScottySkis (Jan 13, 2014)

marcski said:


> Free GSS!



Vote on it what GSS do to get banned.


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## Euler (Jan 13, 2014)

Well, snowlover, I live in vermont.  If I had to drive really far in conditions that were too dangerous, or if I didn't think it was worth it to pay the ticket price for the conditions that day, I would probably choose not to come up to ski.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

When I have the chance I will take off mid-blizzard to get to the mountain. Drove up to Sugarloaf last year mid-Nemo. Snow tires (just fwd for me), years of driving in the snow, and knowing what your car can do is all it takes. And yes, there's not much you can do about ice unless you have studded tires or chains. Ice is usually only a problem right at the start of the storm, light snow on ice is the worst, or after when the roads are cleared and stuff is freezing up.

If you are not comfortable driving in the snow, please stay home. And leave the powder to the professionals ...


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 13, 2014)

Sure wish I was driving up in a blizzard today..the weather report just gets worse and worse, although it MIGHT snow on Wednesday. One can only hope!


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

Damn I take a day off and I miss a thread like this.  So Snowlovers on timeout again? Looking at this thread I am amazed by how late some of these posts come in. There are some hardcore people here!


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## Cornhead (Jan 13, 2014)

Nutcase here ;-) Man, I really feel for all of you guys, and rare gals, you need a snow fix bad. Next time the "Polar Vortex" comes to town, hop in your car and drive to beautiful North Central NY. Open your wallet wide and pull out $22 to ski a couple feet of Ontario Pow. The roads won't be bad until you're almost there. On second thought, stay home and type.;-)


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> fine dude.  stay home when a blizzard occurs and feel safe.
> 
> I'll be at the mountain enjoying the fresh.



What happened to holding hands and singing kumbaya with Snowlover?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2014)

He's a crappy singer


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## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Damn I take a day off and I miss a thread like this.  So Snowlovers on timeout again? Looking at this thread I am amazed by how late some of these posts come in. There are some hardcore people here!



Looks like a permanent vacation this time ...


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## bvibert (Jan 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> So Snowlovers on timeout again?



On timeout again???  This is the first and only timeout.  A permanent ban will follow if he can't figure out how to play nice after the timeout.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2014)

All I ask is if you are going 20mph on the Vermont roads in a snow storm... and I am behind you... please pull the heck over and let competent drivers with AWD pass.

Don't be *that guy* with a line of 15 vehicles all trying to go skiing behind you.


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## gmcunni (Jan 13, 2014)

bvibert said:


> On timeout again???  This is the first and only timeout.  A permanent ban will follow if he can't figure out how to play nice after the timeout.



that's a shame, i thought he'd toned it down and was doing ok.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> that's a shame, i thought he'd toned it down and was doing ok.



It started that way but went back to the same old Snowlover when people disagreed with him.


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## bvibert (Jan 13, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> that's a shame, i thought he'd toned it down and was doing ok.





MadMadWorld said:


> It started that way but went back to the same old Snowlover when people disagreed with him.



Yup, pretty much.  Some of the more disagreeable stuff that he posted in the last few days has been deleted in an effort to keep things civil around here.


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## C-Rex (Jan 13, 2014)

I drive up in snow storms all the time and have never been in an accident or gotten stuck.  (knocks on wood)  I have AWD, good tires, and I know how to drive in the snow.  If the highways and main roads are being plowed you don't need to slow down to 35.  Yes, you need to leave plenty of space to stop, slow down for turns and give other cars lots of room but you can easily do 50 on a highway in the snow without risking a crash.  If it's going to snow really heavily or I'm going somewhere farther than 1.5-2 hours drive when it's clear, then I go up the night before and grab a cheap hotel.  If you stay about 20-30 min from the mountain the prices drop dramatically.  Most of the time I just leave really early in the morning when there's no traffic and I have plenty of time to get there.  The last powder day I hit was a Mount Snow when they got that 15 inches on a sunday.  The only thing that really delayed my drive was getting stuck behind a line of plows.

It just depends on how dedicated you are.  I don't have the money to take extra days off and spend the night in hotels all the time, so I'm willing to drive.  The snow on the roads is not what's dangerous.  It's the jackasses out there that don't know how to drive and don't have suitable vehicles but still try anyway that will cause a wreck.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> All I ask is if you are going 20mph on the Vermont roads in a snow storm... and I am behind you... please pull the heck over and let competent drivers with AWD pass.
> 
> Don't be *that guy* with a line of 15 vehicles all trying to go skiing behind you.



That is annoying. I'm usually the guy that takes his time but I always move over and then I point and laugh when your flipped over in a ditch or wrapped around a guardrail.....but then I stop and help.


----------



## ScottySkis (Jan 13, 2014)

Cornhead said:


> Nutcase here ;-) Man, I really feel for all of you guys, and rare gals, you need a snow fix bad. Next time the "Polar Vortex" comes to town, hop in your car and drive to beautiful North Central NY. Open your wallet wide and pull out $22 to ski a couple feet of Ontario Pow. The roads won't be bad until you're almost there. On second thought, stay home and type.;-)



Snowy lover troll of the century I say.


----------



## C-Rex (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> All I ask is if you are going 20mph on the Vermont roads in a snow storm... and I am behind you... please pull the heck over and let competent drivers with AWD pass.
> 
> Don't be *that guy* with a line of 15 vehicles all trying to go skiing behind you.



+eleven-teen billion

So frustrating, and even more so when those people are in the left lane on the highway and won't move over.  If you want to take your time and go super slow, that's fine but don't be a dick to others in the process.  If you're not a cop, it's not your duty to slow people down.


----------



## snoseek (Jan 13, 2014)

I know when it's dumping and I come up on a Subaru I'm going nowhere fast.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2014)

snoseek said:


> I know when it's dumping and I come up on a Subaru I'm going nowhere fast.





I'll take a shitty Subaru over most other vehicles in the snow


----------



## steamboat1 (Jan 13, 2014)

My ski car is a Subaru Outback Sport which has Blizzak snow tires on it in winter. I feel pretty confident that I'll keep moving forward but I still drive cautiously in snow.


----------



## snoseek (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> View attachment 10347
> 
> I'll take a shitty Subaru over most other vehicles in the snow


Subies are great in the snow. I was referring to the drivers (in general) of Subarus. Not the skiing demographic so much as the nervous Nellie living in a cold climate and scared of winter demographic.


----------



## skifree (Jan 13, 2014)

snoseek said:


> I know when it's dumping and I come up on a Subaru I'm going nowhere fast.


----------



## Mpdsnowman (Jan 13, 2014)

I think by now its safe to say some of you know I put on ski/snowboard trips. It doesnt matter if its in Utah or Vermont or wherever the reality is people from all over come to these resorts to get thier fix but many of them have never driven a vehicle in elements that get presented.

No matter where I am the first night of arrival I dont sleep. I get texts and phone calls from people I have never met (and many i have over the years but still have not learned to slow down lol) because they are either stuck in a ditch, need a tow..or even worse lost in dead end valleys with phone reception cutting in and out....while its a blizzard....and they are going thru all this because they want the powder...

It boils down to experience or lack thereof....Proper judgement and a sense of time and direction...Always remain calm...thats a good rule when driving thru these conditions...If your going to do a U turn...stay on the road, the shoulder could be a ditch...a ditch designed to be filled with snow from the roads....Make sure your vehicle has good snowtires or at least fresh all season to give you a chance....

And grow a set of balls...your not going to get to the powder if you dont have one! Its part of the game...always has always will be.

For me I live in Syracuse NY. Lol driving in blizzards is just part of our life.....a good one indeed if you like Winter...


----------



## skiNEwhere (Jan 13, 2014)

Audi's are really good in the snow as well. But god help you if they break, that's the reason I got rid of my last one, because the warranty was expiring


----------



## Bene288 (Jan 13, 2014)

My Tundra is incredible in the snow. I can do 75 in 4wd and feel solid. The combo of 4x4 and traction control makes it feel like a Subaru. The traction doesn't let the ass end swing out, so no need for 300lbs of tube sand in the bed. Just have to get over the higher center of gravity. The additional clearance helps with shifting lanes too. I've always had trucks, but this one blew me away with how awesome it is on snowy roads. 

I made it to Gore in a blizzard in my usual 1 hour and 30 minutes. Snowlover also didn't seem to take into consideration that when a big snow event happens, a LOT of people choose not to drive. I would take a snowy rt 2 or rt 7 any day over Bean town rush hour traffic. Most if not all of us grew up in the northeast, driving in snow isn't a big deal.


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 13, 2014)

bvibert said:


> Yup, pretty much.  Some of the more disagreeable stuff that he posted in the last few days has been deleted in an effort to keep things civil around here.



i hope he rehabilitates and sticks around.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

People can learn to drive in the snow, but it's hard to make up having years of experience in it. If you survived your youth in a snowy state you got to do all kinds of dumb things in your car that taught you what you can and can't do in the snow.


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 13, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> People can learn to drive in the snow, but it's hard to make up having years of experience in it. If you survived your youth in a snowy state you got to do all kinds of dumb things in your car that taught you what you can and can't do in the snow.



i enjoy driving in the snow and feel very confident doing so.  that said i've had a very hard time adjusting to driving the jeep wrangler in the snow. granted the tires need replacing - the short wheelbase, high center of gravity and very light backend make for an interesting combo.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 13, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> People can learn to drive in the snow, but it's hard to make up having years of experience in it. If you survived your youth in a snowy state you got to do all kinds of dumb things in your car that taught you what you can and can't do in the snow.



The best way to learn to drive in the snow is to play in the snow.  There's nothing wrong with doing the occasional doughnut in an empty parking lot... to practice... even as an adult...


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> i enjoy driving in the snow and feel very confident doing so.  that said i've had a very hard time adjusting to driving the jeep wrangler in the snow. granted the tires need replacing - the short wheelbase, high center of gravity and very light backend make for an interesting combo.



Yeah, they really aren't the best thing for snow driving on the highway. And 4wd doesn't do much with bad tires. Drove to Sugarbush one year in a snowstorm. A friend was driving a Cherokee and we decided to do the Roxbury Gap. Turns out his tires were really bad and we couldn't get up. Some dude in an old VW with snows blew past us and we had to turn around.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 13, 2014)

Yup, tires are king when it comes to winter driving.  I was driving around in a small SUV with busted 4WD and almost bald all-season tires last winter... THAT was fun! :lol:


----------



## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2014)

Last time I took Roxbury gap to Sugarbush was in my old 98 Forester (since then replaced with 08 Impreza) ..

It was something like 16" of heavy snow the night before and I was passing every vehicle and even the plow trucks in the old Suby.

I remember there was an old Buick on that road and it was spinning tires and going like 8 mph but I was impressed that it didn't seem to get totally stuck.

But anyway it's nice to have a vehicle that makes Roxbury a viable option on a big snow day.


----------



## spring_mountain_high (Jan 13, 2014)

the first thing i do when i pull out of my driveway onto a snow-covered road is to get some speed and brake hard then do some hard turns side to side so i know what kind of grip i might have (provided there is no traffic, obvs)


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

We should get Snowlovers opinion on snow tires when he's back. Also, it's been awhile since we had a manual vs automatic thread.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> We should get Snowlovers opinion on snow tires when he's back. Also, it's been awhile since we had a manual vs automatic thread.



What about automatics that allow you to shift? That just throws a monkey wrench in that discussion.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> What about automatics that allow you to shift? That just throws a monkey wrench in that discussion.



Those still suck!


----------



## C-Rex (Jan 13, 2014)

spring_mountain_high said:


> the first thing i do when i pull out of my driveway onto a snow-covered road is to get some speed and brake hard then do some hard turns side to side so i know what kind of grip i might have (provided there is no traffic, obvs)



+1

So many people think that "slippery" means you're driving on oiled teflon, and they couple that with zero understanding of physics.  If you're going straight and you hit a slippery patch nothing will happen as long as you are not trying to brake, accelerate heavily, or turn.  Just stay calm and let the car roll over it.  Some people seem to think they will just fly off the road at any moment if their tires come into contact with snow or ice.  Plus, these people have never gone into an empty parking lot and just played around or practiced controlling a slide.  If they had, then counter-steering would be 2nd nature and driving in the snow wouldn't be a terrifying, life or death experience.  They also do dumb things like try to brake and turn at the same time and can't understand why they're understeering so badly.  If your car is FWD or AWD, you need to go into the corner slow and use the throttle to help turn the car. 

I wish the US was more like some European countries, or even better, like Finland when it comes to driving.  It takes years of serious car control training to get a license in Finland.  Which is why in auto racing they say, "If you want to win, hire a Fin."  The US allows the most inept drivers to get a license because they are only required to show the most basic of skills.  Then when terrible drivers get in accidents they are able to blame everyone and everything but themselves for what happened.  In the US, instead of making our people smarter and more capable, we just dumb-down the world around them.  It really makes me sad.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 13, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> The US allows the most inept drivers to get a license because they are only required to show the most basic of skills.  Then when terrible drivers get in accidents they are able to blame everyone and everything but themselves for what happened.  In the US, instead of making our people smarter and more capable, we just dumb-down the world around them.  It really makes me sad.



Hear hear!  Hence the push for self driving cars... :roll:


----------



## skiNEwhere (Jan 13, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> If you're going straight and you hit a slippery patch nothing will happen as long as you are not trying to brake, accelerate heavily, or turn.



Not entirely true. Like I was saying earlier in this thread 




skiNEwhere said:


> I was driving to Breckenridge on I-70 in mid November (2013) with the temp hovering around freezing, and I went through the Eisenhower tunnel, elevation 11,000 ft, and started on a 7% downgrade for roughly 8 miles to Silverthorne, elevation 8,000ish feet. Speed limit was 55, I was going 30. Hit ice and started going sideways, which has happened to me a couple of times before, expect this time I wasn't able to correct it. My F-150 hit the median guardrail at a 30 degree angle, which spun me around and made my backend hit as well.



That is the best advise, just try to ride it out, but in my case I let off the gas, kept the wheels straight, did NOT hit the brakes but the ice still made me turn sideways. I only tried to correct it after I was canted 15 degrees to the left and still had no traction and realized I was going to crash if I didn't do anything.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

bvibert said:


> Hear hear!  Hence the push for self driving cars... :roll:



Also, the younger generations aren't all that into owning cars anymore. Especially if they live anywhere near a big metropolitan area. Stuff like zip car makes it easy to live without, but cuts down on time behind the wheel for these kids ... lowering the overall experience level out there.


----------



## C-Rex (Jan 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Not entirely true. Like I was saying earlier in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually, if you were going downhill and let off the gas, you were braking with the engine. I'm assuming you were in 4wd, so I think what happened is you let off the gas and the engine gave resistence to the wheels. The weight of the truck pitched forward and the rear tried to overtake the front causing the spin.

What I should have said was to keep just enough throttle to let the wheels roll freely. If you were in neutral, that probably wouldn't have happened.

There are always exceptions to the rules, and no one is perfect.  The spin could also have been caused by the front tires hitting some slush or snow which would have the same effect.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Not entirely true. Like I was saying earlier in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FWIW - If you let off the gas too abruptly that's about equal to hitting the brakes, especially if you were in a lowish gear...


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 13, 2014)

C-Rex said:


> Actually, if you were going downhill and let off the gas, you were braking with the engine.  I'm assuming you were in 4wd, so I think what happened is you let off the gas and the engine gave resistence to the wheels.  The weight of the truck pitched forward and the rear tried to overtake the front causing the spin.
> 
> What I should have said was to keep just enough throttle to let the wheels roll freely.  If you were in neutral, that probably wouldn't have happened.



This applies for short distances, roads curve and have slope to them. If the whole roadway was iced and it pitches off to the left or right, gravity will start to pull the vehicle over as well.


----------



## Highway Star (Jan 13, 2014)

Snowlover said:


> How do you guys get to vt area resorts in a snowstorm? Mount snow is barely makeable for a day drip at 2 1/2 hours with no storm. Maybe do that twice a year max. Local is where it's at. I'm sorry, but talking about helmets and you drive through vt backroads in a snowstorm? You're more likely to die on the road. Do you know how dangerous trying to drive 100's of miles in a blizzard is? And how are you supposed to get there for first tracks/first chair when the roads are snow covered? A hotel is a neccesity and that's more money and more time off from work ect. Very difficult to score fresh untracked powder anywhere on ec unless you live local. And how long would it take you to drive from hartford, ct to mount snow in the middle of a blizzard? 7 hours one way? Assuming you can get there alive with your vehicle in one piece. You can only go 30-35mph max the whole way and maybe 20mph on side roads if it's really bombing out. Yeah obviously a hotel is necessary.



You = Fail.


----------



## C-Rex (Jan 13, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> This applies for short distances, roads curve and have slope to them. If the whole roadway was iced and it pitches off to the left or right, gravity will start to pull the vehicle over as well.



Of course.  But that's why you need to DRIVE the car and not just point it and push the gas. LOL


----------



## skiNEwhere (Jan 13, 2014)

I did ease of the gas, was not in a lower gear. If I was on a flat plain vs 7% downgrade I probably would've been ok. 

It didn't help that my truck is an extended bed (8 foot ) which made it harder to recover


----------



## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> We should get Snowlovers opinion on snow tires when he's back. Also, it's been awhile since we had a manual vs automatic thread.



Driving an automatic demonstrates a lack of giving a crap about driving in the first place, thereby implying ineptitude in snowy road conditions.


----------



## skiNEwhere (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> Driving an automatic demonstrates a lack of giving a crap about driving in the first place, thereby implying ineptitude in snowy road conditions.



Or shows that trucks manufacturers offer manuals in very few of their models. :uzi:


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> Driving an automatic demonstrates a lack of giving a crap about driving in the first place, thereby implying ineptitude in snowy road conditions.



Lol I switched to an auto because I was sick of driving a stick in stop and go with a bad knee. I don't take offense it is what it is....I rather have my stick though.


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## pcampbell (Jan 13, 2014)

> If you're going straight and you hit a slippery patch nothing will  happen as long as you are not trying to brake, accelerate heavily, or  turn.



reminds me of this morning, coming down to the base area to find more ice than i   dared to turn on.. ended up skidding 25 feet across gravel before I stopped 





I am not sure what I'd do if I didn't live here..........  I do drive (manual... of course ha) AWD with snow tires and this definitely the best combination I've ever had.

I know some people will get up early and hit the road  and often  won't run into snow until   they are a bit closer.


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## Tin (Jan 13, 2014)

Love the gf's 5-speed Subaru in the snow. For towing the boat in the summer in beach traffic and out of ramps an automatic is a must though.


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## Boston Bulldog (Jan 13, 2014)

Damn, missed ANOTHER Snowlover thread. 

What a great guy:roll:


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## pcampbell (Jan 13, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Or shows that trucks manufacturers offer manuals in very few of their models. :uzi:



yeah, can't get a F150 or 1500 chevy  in a manual.

I'm curious to see about this new 1500 Dodge Diesel.  Used to have bigger  Dodge diesels in  6spd that were a ton of fun.

I had snow tires on my 2WD Dodge   with 700 lb ft of torque, it actually did pretty well in the snow.


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## WWF-VT (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> Driving an automatic demonstrates a lack of giving a crap about driving in the first place, thereby implying ineptitude in snowy road conditions.



And demonsrates theposter's lack of knowledge that the vast majority of vehicles available in the US today are automatic and equipped with anti-lock brakes and traction control systems.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> And demonsrates theposter's lack of knowledge that the vast majority of vehicles available in the US today are automatic and equipped with anti-lock brakes and traction control systems.



Just trying to add some variety to the flame bait already present in this thread.

I know manual transmission is not available in a lot of vehicles. I guess it's an endangered species anyway when less people are driving gasoline powered vehicles.

Anyway I feel much more in control of a vehicle especially in abnormal conditions if it's a manual transmission... but manual transmission Subarus are all I've ever owned so color me biased.

As for pickups... I'm sure you can still get Toyotas in a manual. It's interesting that there is so much lack of market demand for medium size trucks in a manual transmission that at least the American manufacturers have given up on making them.


----------



## xwhaler (Jan 13, 2014)

I have an 08 Toyota Tacoma 4wd with a manual.....only available with the 4 cyl engine when I got mine

Sent from my VS980 4G using AlpineZone mobile app


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## snoseek (Jan 13, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> I have an 08 Toyota Tacoma 4wd with a manual.....only available with the 4 cyl engine when I got mine
> 
> Sent from my VS980 4G using AlpineZone mobile app


I bought the 11 version of your truck because I wanted a manual. It does pretty good in the snow, would be better if I ran snow tires for sure, but dat manual!


----------



## Bene288 (Jan 13, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> Just trying to add some variety to the flame bait already present in this thread.
> 
> I know manual transmission is not available in a lot of vehicles. I guess it's an endangered species anyway when less people are driving gasoline powered vehicles.
> 
> ...



You can't get a full size truck in manual anymore. Dodge may still offer the 3500 in manual, but that's more truck than 99.9 of truck owners need.The triptronic in my truck is actually very useful in the snow. 

Still, nothing beats a sticks shift. Unfortunately your Subaru couldn't haul 4x8 sheets of plywood, or I would have one. Thinking about a wrx as a second car. I even like the new XV.


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## pcampbell (Jan 14, 2014)

G56 6spd is available on Dodge 2500s and 3500s as far as I know.


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## Bene288 (Jan 14, 2014)

pcampbell said:


> G56 6spd is available on Dodge 2500s and 3500s as far as I know.



Is that the turbo diesel?


----------



## pcampbell (Jan 14, 2014)

i think you can get it with the HEMI too,  g56 is the manual transmission.


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## farlep99 (Jan 14, 2014)

bdfreetuna said:


> Just trying to add some variety to the flame bait already present in this thread.
> 
> I know manual transmission is not available in a lot of vehicles. I guess it's an endangered species anyway when less people are driving gasoline powered vehicles.
> 
> ...



It definitely sucks that very few manuals are on the market now.  The only AWD vehicles available manual that I'm aware of are subaru (I think only the outback?) and Audi A4.  I had an A4, loved driving it, but frankly it was a POS that was constantly in the shop.  I'll never go that route again.  It'd be nice to have more options because manual in hairy conditions is much better.  the tiptronics are ok but manual is the way to go


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 14, 2014)

farlep99 said:


> It definitely sucks that very few manuals are on the market now.  The only AWD vehicles available manual that I'm aware of are subaru (I think only the outback?) and Audi A4.  I had an A4, loved driving it, but frankly it was a POS that was constantly in the shop.  I'll never go that route again.  It'd be nice to have more options because manual in hairy conditions is much better.  the tiptronics are ok but manual is the way to go



The Outback is a beast (not in a good way) and it's too bad you can't get the H6 in a stick. That's the biggest problem is even when you can get a car in a stick it's usually limited to lower end models. Some of us want some luxury too dammit! That's what drove me to the Jetta Sportwagon, 6 spd with a really nice interior, cost less than the outback and much better mileage. Gave up AWD, but haven't missed it much. My girlfriend just bought the Crosstrek (5 speed) and it drives much better than the outback, though the suspension feels kinda squishy compared to the VW. Space is pretty limited in it.


----------



## HowieT2 (Jan 14, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> The Outback is a beast (not in a good way) and it's too bad you can't get the H6 in a stick. That's the biggest problem is even when you can get a car in a stick it's usually limited to lower end models. Some of us want some luxury too dammit! That's what drove me to the Jetta Sportwagon, 6 spd with a really nice interior, cost less than the outback and much better mileage. Gave up AWD, but haven't missed it much. My girlfriend just bought the Crosstrek (5 speed) and it drives much better than the outback, though the suspension feels kinda squishy compared to the VW. Space is pretty limited in it.



I'm considering the crosstrek but concerned that the 4 cylinder is under powered.  how do you like it?
My understanding is that its an impreza with a beefed up suspension.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 14, 2014)

HowieT2 said:


> I'm considering the crosstrek but concerned that the 4 cylinder is under powered.  how do you like it?
> My understanding is that its an impreza with a beefed up suspension.



The 5 speed is pretty nice, you won't win races but it will get you there and is a little sporty. My gf was thinking of going with auto (cvt) because she's going to have to drive in the city a lot for her new job. Drove the auto out of the lot (after test driving the 5 spd) and said hell no. She loves it. Moved down from an 11' Outback that was too big for her.


----------



## HowieT2 (Jan 14, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> The 5 speed is pretty nice, you won't win races but it will get you there and is a little sporty. My gf was thinking of going with auto (cvt) because she's going to have to drive in the city a lot for her new job. Drove the auto out of the lot (after test driving the 5 spd) and said hell no. She loves it. Moved down from an 11' Outback that was too big for her.



thx.  i need the auto.
the outback has gotten too big.  I had an '05 outback and it was fine size wise (until I blew the turbo and then the engine).  i think the crosstrek looks like an old style outback.


----------



## KD7000 (Jan 14, 2014)

farlep99 said:


> It definitely sucks that very few manuals are on the market now.  The only AWD vehicles available manual that I'm aware of are subaru (I think only the outback?) and Audi A4.


I'm pretty sure Porsche still offers a 911 C4 with a stick. :smile:


----------



## ScottySkis (Jan 14, 2014)

I drive Honda Accord that hates snow and hates Mountains driving. I got cheap snow tires on it , next used car I buy will be a Subrau probably.


----------



## Terry (Jan 14, 2014)

My wife drives a 2002 honda accord  that goes good in the snow. I put 4 altimax artic snow tires on it and has never been stuck with it since. It will go through snow that is plowing right up over the hood and keep right on going. The thing is a beast.


----------



## ScottySkis (Jan 14, 2014)

Terry said:


> My wife drives a 2002 honda accord  that goes good in the snow. I put 4 altimax artic snow tires on it and has never been stuck with it since. It will go through snow that is plowing right up over the hood and keep right on going. The thing is a beast.



I have a 1996 window fogs up a lot. It been okay with ice and snow I driven through so far. Next time I spending more money on better snow tires. Engine and transmission are good conserding the age.


----------



## xwhaler (Jan 14, 2014)

How many miles u got on that 96?    Hondas seem to run forever

Sent from my VS980 4G using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Terry (Jan 14, 2014)

Got 160,000 on the 02. Still going strong. Been basically  trouble free so far.


----------



## ScottySkis (Jan 14, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> How many miles u got on that 96?    Hondas seem to run forever
> 
> Sent from my VS980 4G using AlpineZone mobile app


55,000 for ever. Odometer works for about 10 miles every time I go 200.


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## Wavewheeler (Jan 14, 2014)

I will only drive a stick! A slushbox isn't an option! The Jeep has a six speed. When I married our family car was a Honda Element and we drove to Greenwich, CT to pick one up that had a 5 speed. IMO you aren't driving unless you have a stick and a third pedal.


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 14, 2014)

Wavewheeler said:


> IMO you aren't driving unless you have a stick and a third pedal.



Does the e-brake count? 

Sold my Audi s4 (manual) which was a blast to drive but a ton of maintenance and got an outback since the GF can't drive stick and I didn't want her to learn on a brand new car


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 14, 2014)

3 peddler myself.  What's particularly frustrating is the availability of MT cars across the globe that you can't get here.  In Europe, Japan and I believe Australia you can get a MT Mazda CX 5 with AWD and a diesel engine.  I'd pay a 5k premium for those options on that vehicle... maybe more.  

Here you can only get a MT with the FWD version of the car with the 2 liter and underpowered engine.  Only reason they offer that is so they can advertise the car as the most fuel efficient SUV on the market.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 15, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> 3 peddler myself.  What's particularly frustrating is the availability of MT cars across the globe that you can't get here.  In Europe, Japan and I believe Australia you can get a MT Mazda CX 5 with AWD and a diesel engine.  I'd pay a 5k premium for those options on that vehicle... maybe more.
> 
> Here you can only get a MT with the FWD version of the car with the 2 liter and underpowered engine.  Only reason they offer that is so they can advertise the car as the most fuel efficient SUV on the market.



Yeah it's frustrating. Same applies to the Outback with a diesel and manual in Europe. Diesel torque would be great on the outback. Some hints VW might be coming out with an AllRoad type wagon, but they'll probably saddle it with an auto ...


----------



## SIKSKIER (Jan 15, 2014)

Not sure I understand why you guys think a standard is better in snow.


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 15, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Not sure I understand why you guys think a standard is better in snow.



In my opinion better control over torque and wheel spin.


----------



## C-Rex (Jan 15, 2014)

SIKSKIER said:


> Not sure I understand why you guys think a standard is better in snow.



You have better control over the power band, and can use the engine to slow the car down.  Yes you can do that in an auto but it's just not the same.


----------



## gmcunni (Jan 15, 2014)

i always feel more confident when i directly control the tranny in adverse conditions.  past autos were slow and sloppy.  but i i will say the auto in my gmc acadia is pretty sweet and responsive for downshift as needed.  i feel as comfortable in that as i have in the past in saab with stick or the jeep.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 16, 2014)

Another benefit to having a stick, you are less likely to have your car stolen: http://boston.com/news/local/massac...car-thieves/wteI4VwjOMNBboZFPrvb9L/story.html


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## skifree (Jan 16, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> Another benefit to having a stick, you are less likely to have your car stolen: http://boston.com/news/local/massac...car-thieves/wteI4VwjOMNBboZFPrvb9L/story.html


too funny!


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## Cornhead (Jan 16, 2014)

I've thought this leaving my car running to hop into a place, if someone tries to steal it, they better know how to drive stick. I have a spare key, should get a key chain that I can easily remove the spare and lock the doors. I've owned Fords with the keypad on the doors, they were great for that. Here's a funny ad involving a stick, it's been posted here before, hilarious! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKSq64FVcI4 

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