# Binding inserts



## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with these?

http://quiverkiller.com/html_info.cfm?menu_itemID=625932&load=html

It will save on binding cost and I can move the Barons from ski to ski.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 22, 2011)

Interesting.


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## SkiDork (Sep 22, 2011)

so basically its a screw you put in the ski which has internal threads you can mount a binding on?

Seems to be an interesting idea, but if you want to change to a different binding, the mount positions probably won't be the same.  So I guess you're committed to 1 binding.


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

Move one binding to multiple skis. Saves money. Especially with Dukes or Barons. I was going to move them between my Prophetes, Palmer01, and Hell and Backs.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2011)

Why do you feel the need to have 3 different touring skis?


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

Because I all ready have a pair of Barons sitting in a box!  The Palmers were very cheap and I can use for early and late season when things are sketchy.  The Prophetes were cheap also.  The Hell and Backs would be the every day ski for good conditions. So, the swapping would be early and late season.  Make sense!


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

just placed the order for three sets.  I will let you know how things go.  I will do the Prophetes first, since these are drilled all ready and should fairly easy to do.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Sep 22, 2011)

Puck it said:


> just placed the order for three sets.  I will let you know how things go.  I will do the Prophetes first, since these are drilled all ready and should fairly easy to do.



Awesome....eagerly waiting to hear your report on this!


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## snowmonster (Sep 22, 2011)

Puck it said:


> just placed the order for three sets.  I will let you know how things go.  I will do the Prophetes first, since these are drilled all ready and should fairly easy to do.



I'm also curious to see how these work. Lots of talk on TGR about these but I usually let a few seasons pass before jumping in. I'd like the manufacturer to work out the kinks first.

Anybody interested in these? http://runmfd.com/

It allows you to adapt alpine bindings for AT travel. Looks promising for the sidecountry.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Sep 22, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> Anybody interested in these? http://runmfd.com/
> 
> It allows you to adapt alpine bindings for AT travel. Looks promising for the sidecountry.



Whoa!


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> I'm also curious to see how these work. Lots of talk on TGR about these but I usually let a few seasons pass before jumping in. I'd like the manufacturer to work out the kinks first.
> 
> Anybody interested in these? http://runmfd.com/
> 
> It allows you to adapt alpine bindings for AT travel. Looks promising for the sidecountry.


 

I saw those too.  Expensive though.  Kinda like the BD product that everyone hated.  

I found these too.

http://bindingfreedom.com/


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## Nick (Sep 22, 2011)

That's pretty cool though. I'd really like to get into more AT stuff. Never really done too much of it but I'd love to do more off-piste skiing. Some of those vids I saw this last spring of up and around the presidential range were amazing.


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## Cannonball (Sep 22, 2011)

25 year old snowboard technology = revolutionary ski technology.


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> 25 year old snowboard technology = revolutionary ski technology.


 

Yeah Yeah. You knuckle draggers are ahead of the times.   :beer:K2 is putting them on the Hell Bent from what I read last night.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 22, 2011)

Pretty cool. Gotta wonder what the longevity is. Screw and unscrew something a couple times and stuff starts to get loose.


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Pretty cool. Gotta wonder what the longevity is. Screw and unscrew something a couple times and stuff starts to get loose.


 
I agree, but it will only once or twice a year with three skis and two sets of Barons.  If the insert loosens then I would think it could be removed and run the tap in hole and re epoxy. Done.


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## marcski (Sep 22, 2011)

These are pretty cool, Puck It.  Let us know how they are in use.


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## Black Phantom (Sep 22, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Yeah Yeah. You knuckle draggers are ahead of the times.   :beer:K2 is putting them on the Hell Bent from what I read last night.



Line tried an interchangeable binding scheme a few years back. I think Armada gave it a shot as well.

The binding weighed significantly more than a tradition 2 piece. Never saw anyone on them.

I'd be worried about the holes stripping or the screws pulling out. 

Where are you going to test these out lil buddy?


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> Line tried an interchangeable binding scheme a few years back. I think Armada gave it a shot as well.
> 
> The binding weighed significantly more than a tradition 2 piece. Never saw anyone on them.
> 
> ...


 

The stipping or pulling out should be no worse than the normal binding screw.  The insert is epoxied in and then thread sealant is used.  

Anywhere there is snow.  


FYi for anyone ordering.  Use code ATScrew for 15%.  Also if it does not go through with the discount, email the guy and he will crecit it back.  I have been emailing with him in the past hour.  He is a Phd. also, in mat sci.


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## riverc0il (Sep 22, 2011)

Saw those when they first came out but I can't be bothered. When I want to ski, I want to ski. I don't want to have to unscrew and rescrew in a different binding. It is a great idea. But I don't need a quiver killer... I actually like having a quiver.


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## Puck it (Sep 22, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Saw those when they first came out but I can't be bothered. When I want to ski, I want to ski. I don't want to have to unscrew and rescrew in a different binding. It is a great idea. But I don't need a quiver killer... I actually like having a quiver.



I will be doing it on three skis with two pairs of Barons. I should have to do it twice during the year.  Not much of a bother IMHO.

The owner stated the inserts were tested and were stronger then std. binding screws. Hecis sending the info.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 23, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> Anybody interested in these? http://runmfd.com/
> 
> It allows you to adapt alpine bindings for AT travel. Looks promising for the sidecountry.



Isn't that the same thing as the Apline Trekker?

http://www.backcountry.com/backcountry-access-alpine-trekker-adaptors


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## Puck it (Sep 23, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Isn't that the same thing as the Apline Trekker?
> 
> http://www.backcountry.com/backcountry-access-alpine-trekker-adaptors


 

Not quite.  The whole binding moves with the other.  Alpine trekker allows just the boot to move.


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## snowmonster (Sep 23, 2011)

Considerations against Alpine Trekkers include a higher stand height off the ski while skinning and additional weight to carry around in the pack. However, it is a cheaper alternative to getting a full AT set-up. Some dedicated tourers swear by it.

I'm very intrigued by the MFD bindings. However, I'd like to wait a while and gather more beta on these before seriously considering them. I tend to be skittish about bindings inserts or other boot or tech inserts. It's scary to think that a bunch of screws are what's standing between me and terrible injury -- or worse. I've heard too many stories of after-market gear equipment failures. When I choose bindings, I usually go for what's solidly constructed and bomb-proof. I'd trade off weight on the way up for security on the way down.


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## Cannonball (Sep 23, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> It's scary to think that a bunch of screws are what's standing between me and terrible injury -- or worse.



What bindings are you currently using that aren't just a bunch of screws between you and your ski?


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## snowmonster (Sep 23, 2011)

^ I should have said it differently. What I should have said is that, since there's just a bunch of screws between me and injury, I'd like to be secure in the thought that those screws hold tight/don't fail/are bomber. It's the reason I wait a few seasons for the binding to get tested. I'd like them to get the kinks out of the system before I step into them. My AT rigs have Marker Dukes on them. Been pretty solid so far.

I hope I said it better.


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## Puck it (Sep 23, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> ^ I should have said it differently. What I should have said is that, since there's just a bunch of screws between me and injury, I'd like to be secure in the thought that those screws hold tight/don't fail/are bomber. It's the reason I wait a few seasons for the binding to get tested. I'd like them to get the kinks out of the system before I step into them. My AT rigs have Marker Dukes on them. Been pretty solid so far.
> 
> I hope I said it better.


 

I asked the owner for the test results.  I will post if he provides it.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 23, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Not quite.  The whole binding moves with the other.  Alpine trekker allows just the boot to move.



okay.  yeah that is much better.


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## snowmonster (Sep 23, 2011)

Puck it said:


> I asked the owner for the test results.  I will post if he provides it.



Let me know what they say. Thanks.


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## Cannonball (Sep 25, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> ^ I should have said it differently. What I should have said is that, since there's just a bunch of screws between me and injury, I'd like to be secure in the thought that those screws hold tight/don't fail/are bomber. It's the reason I wait a few seasons for the binding to get tested. I'd like them to get the kinks out of the system before I step into them. My AT rigs have Marker Dukes on them. Been pretty solid so far.
> 
> I hope I said it better.



Sure, I knew what you were saying and wasn't really trying to dog on you for saying it.  But I've always felt that the screws holding a binding on were the sketchiest part of the whole set up.  Fortunately DIN allows your boot to break free of the binding before the binding rips off the ski.  But the screws are usually the least accessible/testable part of the binding.  We all just trust that they're in there properly doing their job.

With snowboard binding screws....and now these inserts, you can easily visually inspect their condition whenever you want.  And you can make adjustments/repairs if needed.  I see this potentially being the long-term standard for ski-binding mounting.  The hard part will be standardizing binding manufacture across brands such that screw position is the same and any binding could be traded out for any other.

FWIW:  Quiver Killer's FAQs say:
"What is the pull-out strength of a Quiver Killer?
This has been independently tested: regular binding screw = 280 kg force, Quiver Killer = 400 kg force!"


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## Puck it (Sep 25, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> Let me know what they say. Thanks.



Specs are somewhere. 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Puderluder-Binding-Inserts/139741112715144

Normal binding screw pullls out at 280kg of force. 

Quiverkiller inserts at 400kg.


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## Black Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Specs are somewhere.


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## Black Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Specs are here.


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## Glenn (Sep 26, 2011)

It looks very similar to a nutsert or threaded insert. Or, a snowboard mounting system. In theory, it should work just fine. I'd think you'd want the ski engineered for that system vs the tranditional mount. 

The only thing I don't like about that product is how you install it. The small wrench with two nuts as a guide seems to open the door for making a mistake. Maybe they'll fab up a jig system down the road. 

Personally, this system wouldn't do much for me. I can't think of a time when I've ever said "Gee, I wish I had different bindings right now". However, if skis came with this as OEM and you had multiple mounting points; traditional, forward, back ect, then I could see it being handy. Hitting the park? Mount them more centered. Same skis, out of the park...mount them back....


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## Puck it (Sep 29, 2011)

I installed these into my Prophetes last night.  First couple holes I used the 1/4" drill.  I did not like how the tap was tapping the hole. The insert felt like it did not have a lot of bite to it.  I switched to one size lower drill bit.  Much better insert bite after tapping.  I epoxied all inserts in and they are curing.  I used little more epoxy in the holes.  I will install binding tonight and test with the boots in the binding. I will also put the boots on a lean forward since the holes in qestions are on the rear binding mount. If this holds I will further test when the snow flies before doing anymore skis.  The Palmers will get std. binding screws for now.


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## snowmonster (Sep 29, 2011)

Take some pics. 

What skis do you have? Your skis wouldn't be the Fischer Porohetes, would it?


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## Puck it (Sep 29, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> Take some pics.
> 
> What skis do you have? Your skis wouldn't be the Fischer Porohetes, would it?



Will do. Yes, Prophetes.  Why do you ask?  I got them for $150 on BC last year as a ski to trash.


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## snowmonster (Sep 29, 2011)

^ Spelling. Not trying to be a dick but I think one of us is not spelling it right if we're referring to the same ski.


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## Puck it (Sep 29, 2011)

BC had them listed as prophetes.  The correct spelling is yours as I looked at the ski when I mounting them. Sorry.

All mounted.  Not problems. They seem very tight.  Tested with the boot. Fine. I put the boot on and test each by leaning forward.  Bent the ski quite a bit and nothing pulled out.  I tested the bindings in skinning mode.  Nothing seemed to loosen.  The next test will be skiing. 

Pics will be up loaded.


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## snowmonster (Sep 30, 2011)

^ That's what I figured. The BC proofreaders aren't very thorough sometimes. Post up the pics. I am very curious about this. Took my RC 112s to the shop for mounting. I do my own waxing and tuning but will not touch mounting.


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## Puck it (Sep 30, 2011)




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## snowmonster (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks, Puck it! Congrats! Looks sa-weet!

Do you have a second set of skis that you plan to use those Dukes on? Great way to save on cost. That's a $300 savings right there.

If you decide to do short tours on those Dukes, let me know. I always need company on the hill.


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## Puck it (Sep 30, 2011)

snowmonster said:


> Thanks, Puck it! Congrats! Looks sa-weet!
> 
> Do you have a second set of skis that you plan to use those Dukes on? Great way to save on cost. That's a $300 savings right there.
> 
> If you decide to do short tours on those Dukes, let me know. I always need company on the hill.



I have two pair of those going between three skis.  I will contact you if I plan on some.   I want to hit the west side of the rock pile this year.


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## snowmonster (Oct 1, 2011)

^ I have some unfinished business on the west side too. Looking forward to it. I could use the company. Enjoy the skis!


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## Puck it (Oct 2, 2011)

Dropped off my Palmer 01 plus skis for mounting with the Barons.  It was a free install since I bought the bindings at the Ski Haus tent sale.  I will drill out holes for the inserts on these. However, I ordered another back so I only have to remove the 5 screws at the front of the binding.  I should have thought this before.  I also pull the trigger on the Nordica Hell & Back in 177cm.


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