# self tuning



## my poor knees (Apr 13, 2011)

Hey people, new guy here, long winded post but season's over for me so thought I would strike up a tuning thread. I skied about 100 days tops on my Volke tiger sharks and they're shot already. I ski very aggressively in moguls and trees and like many at Killington I hit and slide across rocks. They took quite a beating and have a split edge and a huge hole down to the core. They were repaired and patched but the patch never holds and keeps falling out. There's supposed to be a better material than p-tex but out of the 1/2 dozen shops that tried to repair them, all used ptex and none of the repairs lasted more than one outing. I'm tired pf paying these shops to tune my skis and I may be wrong but the "machines" they use don't seem to do a very good job. All the pros on youtube do it by hand so I'm thinking that's the way to go on my new virgin skis.

I used to tune my own and have most of the tools but gave up do to lack of confidence and laziness. Now that I watched all these youtube videos I realize I was doing it pretty good just not often enough. Now that I have been skiing for many years I am realizing the importance of sharp edges and tuning and want to keep the new skis tuned properly so I'm going to attempt to do them myself by hand from now on. I'll keep the base at a 1 degree and sides at 3. After only 3 days on my new skis I can already feel burrs and dings. I have the beast edger and base tools and all the associated diamond stones and files. I do my own waxing and scraping. What I am missing is a good brush for the structure and a good sidewall planer if I need one ? and a good set of vices. 

So just wanted to share some of my experience and tips so tell me if I'm right or wrong. I usually go skiing 3 -4 days at a time, I'm not going to tune them everyday, MAYBE hit them with the gummy but I now realize they need attention after every trip. My plan is to knock off the burrs on the base, the base is usually the quickest and easiest. The edges seem to have the most burrs which I knock off by hand slightly and finish with the edger and diamond stones. I work my way down to a fine stones until I can hear the tool glide without making any major grinding noises. Then I don't like to detune much, I pass the gummy over the edge with little to no pressure. Then I brush off the skis,hot wax and scrape ( metal scraper ) and take the wax from the edges. I don't usually brush the structure figuring the first few runs will take care of that? but I will start if I should. So should I stay away from the machines and keep tuning my new skis by hand or use the machines ?


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## speden (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi poor knees,

I do some minor tuning and waxing on my skis.  I find having a good vice makes the work a lot easier.  The ones I use are these:

http://www.racewax.com/product/PA-4300/Ski-Vise-Ski-Man-Sport-Model---PA-4300.html

They are nice and stable and I've been happy with them.

I never use a metal scraper to remove wax.  I've heard it can damage the bases and is only for removing ptex.  I use a plastic scraper to remove wax.  It has a notch in one corner to clean wax off the edges.

I always brush the structure with a Scotchbrite pad.  People say a few runs will remove excess wax, but I've had bad luck with that, and will usually find a patch of wax sitting somewhere after a day of skiing, and feel like it was probably slowing me down all day.  The pad takes care of that.

I sure do notice a difference if I don't do a quick tune and wax before I ski.  Not sure if it's in my head or real, but the skis feel faster and more responsive after I tune them.

One tip I'd like to get is how do you keep the wax shavings from getting everywhere?  They float around and I step on them and wax gets stuck to the floor.  I haven't figured out how to prevent that yet.


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## drjeff (Apr 13, 2011)

my poor knees said:


> Hey people, new guy here, long winded post but season's over for me so thought I would strike up a tuning thread. I skied about 100 days tops on my Volke tiger sharks and they're shot already. I ski very aggressively in moguls and trees and like many at Killington I hit and slide across rocks. They took quite a beating and have a split edge and a huge hole down to the core. They were repaired and patched but the patch never holds and keeps falling out. There's supposed to be a better material than p-tex but out of the 1/2 dozen shops that tried to repair them, all used ptex and none of the repairs lasted more than one outing. I'm tired pf paying these shops to tune my skis and I may be wrong but the "machines" they use don't seem to do a very good job. All the pros on youtube do it by hand so I'm thinking that's the way to go on my new virgin skis.
> 
> I used to tune my own and have most of the tools but gave up do to lack of confidence and laziness. Now that I watched all these youtube videos I realize I was doing it pretty good just not often enough. Now that I have been skiing for many years I am realizing the importance of sharp edges and tuning and want to keep the new skis tuned properly so I'm going to attempt to do them myself by hand from now on. I'll keep the base at a 1 degree and sides at 3. After only 3 days on my new skis I can already feel burrs and dings. I have the beast edger and base tools and all the associated diamond stones and files. I do my own waxing and scraping. What I am missing is a good brush for the structure and a good sidewall planer if I need one ? and a good set of vices.
> 
> So just wanted to share some of my experience and tips so tell me if I'm right or wrong. I usually go skiing 3 -4 days at a time, I'm not going to tune them everyday, MAYBE hit them with the gummy but I now realize they need attention after every trip. My plan is to knock off the burrs on the base, the base is usually the quickest and easiest. The edges seem to have the most burrs which I knock off by hand slightly and finish with the edger and diamond stones. I work my way down to a fine stones until I can hear the tool glide without making any major grinding noises. Then I don't like to detune much, I pass the gummy over the edge with little to no pressure. Then I brush off the skis,hot wax and scrape ( metal scraper ) and take the wax from the edges. I don't usually brush the structure figuring the first few runs will take care of that? but I will start if I should. So should I stay away from the machines and keep tuning my new skis by hand or use the machines ?



Failing base-welds isn't anything new.  And frankly over the years I've come to accept that no matter what shop does a base weld, if they're patching over core material, especially next to the edge, that if you can get 10, maybe 15 days out of the weld before it fails and falls out, you're doing well.  The amount of force that you can put on a base weld between ski flexion, torsional forces and then the abrasive nature of sliding over a crystallion surface is HUGE, and very often far greater in the "long run" than either some epoxy and/or hot, extruded p-tex can handle.  It's ultimatelt all about the mechanics and physics of the equation


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## my poor knees (Apr 15, 2011)

drjeff said:


> Failing base-welds isn't anything new.  And frankly over the years I've come to accept that no matter what shop does a base weld, if they're patching over core material, especially next to the edge, that if you can get 10, maybe 15 days out of the weld before it fails and falls out, you're doing well.  The amount of force that you can put on a base weld between ski flexion, torsional forces and then the abrasive nature of sliding over a crystallion surface is HUGE, and very often far greater in the "long run" than either some epoxy and/or hot, extruded p-tex can handle.  It's ultimatelt all about the mechanics and physics of the equation



After watching a few more videos, I think I should stop using a metal scraper when waxing, is the general consensus to use a plastic scraper?

Also does anyone think I need a side-wall planer  and if so does anyone recommend a good one ?

I heard a few mention that skis need to be tuned every time you use them, OK fine, but not a full tune with a file every time right ? I figured touch them up with the stones, any idea how many tunes the average ski can take before it''s over-tuned?


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## RootDKJ (Apr 15, 2011)

Sounds like a new pair of skis is what's needed here.

I only use a plastic scraper to remove excess wax.  I use this brush to put some structure back in the base once I'm done.


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## drjeff (Apr 15, 2011)

my poor knees said:


> After watching a few more videos, I think I should stop using a metal scraper when waxing, is the general consensus to use a plastic scraper?
> 
> Also does anyone think I need a side-wall planer  and if so does anyone recommend a good one ?
> 
> I heard a few mention that skis need to be tuned every time you use them, OK fine, but not a full tune with a file every time right ? I figured touch them up with the stones, any idea how many tunes the average ski can take before it''s over-tuned?



For scraping wax, yup, use a plastic scraper.  And a nifty little trick to keep the edge nice and sharp and square.  Every so often,  grab a piece of fine grit sand paper, place it on a flat, hard surface.  Hold the plastic scraper perpendicular to the sheet of sandpaper and draw it across the sand paper a few times. Bingo, that edge is clean, sharp, and square!


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## snowmonster (Apr 15, 2011)

For base repair near the side edges, you might use Wintersteiger metal grip instead of regular ptex. Artechski sells them by the roll. 

I used to have a core shot that was problematic. The ptex would fall out after a few months. This cure worked: sand core shot, apply thin layer of epoxy. Let slightly cool then apply ptex. Cool overnight, scrape, sand then wax. No problem after two seasons.


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## Ski the Moguls (Apr 16, 2011)

I think what you need to add is overall base flattening. The normal recommendation is to have a shop belt sand and stone grind the skis once before each season. If you want to avoid that (like me) then you can sand them yourself with a flat file wrapped with sandpaper (currently I favor 220 grit). Sand them down good and smooth, then re-bevel the edges, wax and scrape a couple of times and you should be good to go. A benefit to doing this step yourself is you probably will be taking off much less material than the shops would. That core shot that keeps popping out -- is it because the base has become too thin from shop work?

My general rule for non-racers is that if you notice a big difference after you tune, then tune more often. Conversely, If the skis feel the same after the tune, then do it less often. No absolutes here. Rocks and Powder and everything in between will affect how often things should be done.

Now if you really want to know what it is all about then go here:
http://www.epicski.com/forum/list/37/tuning-and-maintenance
You can spend many hours, and learn so much, by chasing out these threads!


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## my poor knees (Apr 17, 2011)

That link to epic ski takes tuning pretty serious. I think the problem with my tiger sharks was the shops that tried fixing it did a stone grind on the base to make it flat, every time they re-repaired it they did it again, so these poor things had about 8 stone grinds in their short life, the guy at Basin said they were over-tuned and there was very little base material left. He did mention a better fill material, not sure if it was wintersteiger or something else but he said it would stick to metal better. I decided to buy new skis so I'm not too concerned about fixing them anymore BUT I am interested in tuning my own from now on.


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## Sky (Apr 23, 2011)

I started doing my own "touch-ups" three years ago.  I still go to a pro to start the season...then I just maintain.

When I jumped itno it...I think I spentt about $400 or so.....and a littel more since (on hardware).

Ski vice.  I went with the swix.  Don't worry about the vice getting wide enough for wide skis.  It will lock onto the binding.  

Iron....lots of debate on ironing or NO ironing.  Most people iron heir wax...hot scrapes etc.  Check our SkiMd.com and see what he has to say...I bought into it.  I "thinK' I'm doing ok in NASTAR and the bases look terrific after a season of following his guidance.  PLUS....a huge savings on wax!  Your mileage may vary.  :>

The latest thing I bought was a set of Roto Brushes.  I've re-tried the hand brushes and they work fine (and are a lo cheaper).  But if you are tuning multiple pairs of skis....the time savings with the roto brushes just might be worh your while.

No ironing and using the roto brushes have drastically reduced my maintenance time.  Check out the Wax Whizzard (sp?) on SkiMd's site for wax applicaion vs ironing.

Edge guide and diamond stones....aw yeah.  If I need to file my skis....I go to the pros.  The stones just keep my edges sharp. 100, 200, 400, 600

It's sort of pricey to jump in all at once.  Maybe you start hunting for prices and buy in bits and pieces all summer?

Enjoy.


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## my poor knees (Apr 24, 2011)

I bought a bunch of stuff from the race place a few years ago. I allready own the Beast edge tool and the base tool, I have a file, not the coarse one, and a gummy. I'm still unsure about getting an edge planer. I have the set of diamond stones with the circles, I think I have green,red,blue & black. I use a regular house iron and I guess they call it standard shop wax. I belive I need a good set of vices, either swix or other? I also think i'll start using a plastic scraper instead of metal, and I think I need to get a good brush to brush out the texture. 

This is my plan if anyone cares to improve on it.

Put my own 1 degree bevel on the base or let the shop do it?
Stay away from the base edge except to remove burs and nicks
Put a 3 degree on the sides
Maintain the sides throughout the seaon with the diamond stones and edge tool
Hot wax using plastic scraper and brush out the structure
Get a base grind at the end of each year.
I'm undecided on detuning the edge, I've seen some tuners do and some don't. I tried it both ways and I think it edges better on ice if you don't detune, didn't seem to have problems with turning or a hooky feeling, probably better to detune in spring than icy winter conditions? I see some just do the tips and tails and some the whole length. When I did do it, I used a gummy and did one very light pass on the whole edge.


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## dl (Apr 26, 2011)

1. Preseason tune from SkiMD
2. Discman from Wintersteiger for side edge maintenance - so easy. Great edge.
3a. Quick hand brush to get out the dirt/prep the base.
3. Rub on wax - typically Dominator Graphite All Temperature
4. Wax Whizard (aka Ray's Way) - see SkiMD.com or google it.
5. Roto brushes - so easy. Hand brush works fine too. 
6. Go ski. 

Granted there are some expensive parts to this equation but it takes less than 1/2 hour to do a couple of pairs of skis like this.


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## Sky (May 1, 2011)

dl said:


> 1. Preseason tune from SkiMD
> 2. Discman from Wintersteiger for side edge maintenance - so easy. Great edge.
> 3a. Quick hand brush to get out the dirt/prep the base.
> 3. Rub on wax - typically Dominator Graphite All Temperature
> ...



Except for #2....I think this qualifies for a x2.  :>

SkiMd will make everything exact to start with.  Read the web site.  Read some of the reviews.  Amazing.

Then it's all "touch-up maintenance for the rest of the season.  The Wax Whizzard will save you on wax and delete the iron requirement.


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