# The NEW Magic Mountain



## mriceyman (Aug 23, 2016)

With the sale looking final and a new ownership group in place I felt it was necessary to start the place off from square one. Lets hope from here on out this magical place(- the patroller snipping passes for not having the bar down and having only 1 lift to rely on) only gets better and can return to giving the great memories we all seek to have. I can only hope this winter provides us with plenty of powder to let us enjoy the mountain and starts the new crew on the right foot(err boot?).  Also a big thanks to all the volunteers who make the experience better for the rest of us. Its a new era at Magic and I hope it lasts a lifetime. 


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## infusionstudio (Aug 23, 2016)

Very excited about the news! Looking forward to seeing how the new management takes it.

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## Tin (Aug 23, 2016)

Loving it! 

http://chestertelegraph.org/2016/08/23/lucky-13-ski-mountain-investors-say-they-believe-in-magic/


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## mriceyman (Aug 23, 2016)

Tin said:


> Loving it!
> 
> http://chestertelegraph.org/2016/08/23/lucky-13-ski-mountain-investors-say-they-believe-in-magic/



Seems like they have a solid plan in place


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## Newpylong (Aug 23, 2016)

Look forward to getting down there to show support and make some turns.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 23, 2016)

Hopefully they can push that mid-December opening date 2-3 weeks earlier after a few years of improvements.


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## mriceyman (Aug 23, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Hopefully they can push that mid-December opening date 2-3 weeks earlier after a few years of improvements.



Yea we dont need November but before christmas would be good for the place 


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## dlague (Aug 23, 2016)

Considering their snowmaking capability, Mid December is most likely!


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## Highway Star (Aug 23, 2016)

First page, bitches!


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 23, 2016)

dlague said:


> Considering their snowmaking capability, Mid December is most likely!



Supposedly they have 70% capability once they fix some lines. Have to assume a longer season goes hand in hand with "reliability" and "consistency" they speak of improving. Then again I'm not going to ski Magic until it's mostly open and in nice shape anyway.


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## benski (Aug 23, 2016)

I don't see Magic as an early season destination since its snowmaking would still be inferior to the major resorts. Until those resorts get crowded or magic has natural snow trails open I don't see it being a good option for day ticket skiers.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 23, 2016)

benski said:


> I don't see Magic as an early season destination since its snowmaking would still be inferior to the major resorts. Until those resorts get crowded or magic has natural snow trails open I don't see it being a good option for day ticket skiers.



Don't forget late season. There's a new player in town. Whales of snow on Green Line.


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## WoodCore (Aug 23, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Supposedly they have 70% capability once they fix some lines. Have to assume a longer season goes hand in hand with "reliability" and "consistency" they speak of improving. Then again I'm not going to ski Magic until it's mostly open and in nice shape anyway.



Capability to cover 70% when all the pipes are fixed is true however the biggest issue with Magic's snowmaking system lies in the capacity and efficiency. I would assume that being able to move more water up the hill at any given moment to new energy efficient guns would be a top priority in improving the effectiveness of the system.


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 23, 2016)

A Magic thread that doesn't start with "what the............??," sign me up for this.  Thanks for the much needed change.


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## slatham (Aug 23, 2016)

After starting the "what the heck" thread I agree with RG and this new thread that it's time for a change. I had a couple of beers with JM today and a new Magic is in fact being born. Incredibly exciting. Incredibly challenging. Could be incredibly satisfying, but we all need to help out in our own ways: Volunteer days. Ski Magic well before its 100% open. Bring the family for a tube session (and then dinner). Bring a friend or two. Spread the word. RG and a select few do this better than most (and me). We need more to join the faithful.

Sitting back and waiting for a foot of pow, or a crowded holiday weekend at your favorite corporate resort, ain't gonna cut it.

Long live Magic, The New Magic.


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## zoomzoom (Aug 23, 2016)

very exciting news!  
re: tubing, wondering what you plan for the "bumpers" or "people catchers" at the top of the run-out?  the aichholz gang (shudder) had frozen haybales.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 23, 2016)

$1 to maybe $2 million investment over 5 years isn't going to cut it.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 24, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> $1 to maybe $2 million investment over 5 years isn't going to cut it.



A. How would you know as you don't ski there?

B. The new owners have said they will have reserve capital.  They also could pick up additional investors.

C. Thanks for being so kind as to wait until at least the second page of the new thread prior to inserting your typical Magic negativity.


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## Tin (Aug 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> C. Thanks for being so kind as to wait until at least the second page of the new thread prior to inserting your typical Magic negativity.




He is still mad about Hans Thorner railing Mrs. Steamboat back in the day. Can't blame him for hating the place.


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## sull1102 (Aug 24, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> $1 to maybe $2 million investment over 5 years isn't going to cut it.



Agree with you to some extent, curious what those who disagree with you have in their mind for a number. Surely it can't be much lower than $500,000 a season for improvement and cleaning up old problems.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 24, 2016)

I have no idea what the number is, but I'm going to trust that the new ownership has done their research and give them time to try and succeed before being critical of their plans.  The Magic faithful have shown themselves as a very loyal group, but they're also not at all afraid to express criticism when things aren't going well.  If in a couple years it's still the same old, same old, then I think it would be appropriate to look back and say bad plan.  

New ownership, new energy, they deserve the full support of anyone who is passionate about skiing that they succeed.


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## BodhiMax (Aug 24, 2016)

As someone who was pessimistic about a deal getting done, this is great news!  Looking forward to skiing there this season and supporting this change however I can.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 24, 2016)

I figure if I'm only gonna be there 2-3 times in a season anyway might as well go on pow days. Money is money right?


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## slatham (Aug 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I figure if I'm only gonna be there 2-3 times in a season anyway might as well go on pow days. Money is money right?



Yeah sure but being a bit more aggressive in supporting Magic will help assure its there for you on those powder days. And Magic is always cheaper than the mega resorts. Money is money, right?


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## WoodCore (Aug 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I figure if I'm only gonna be there 2-3 times in a season anyway might as well go on pow days. Money is money right?



That's one of the premonitions (that Magic is only good on powder days) that IMHO the new management wants to change. I enjoy any day I'm skiing at Magic but actually prefer the non powder days. There's always plenty of untracked snow to be found days after storms and you can do it without the the throngs of "bros" in slay mode. The lift and beer lines are shorter too.


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## slatham (Aug 24, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> $1 to maybe $2 million investment over 5 years isn't going to cut it.



You'd be surprised what $1 to $2mm would do to help Magic get over the hump to having reliable lifts and significantly more snowmaking, earlier, deeper, on more terrain.

But no amount of money will counter poor management, and that's what we've had for several years. A little capital and good management will go a long way. And if properly managed that "invested capital" will generate a return which will then be reinvested.

And let's remember that Magic is not aiming to compete with the big guys so multi million dollar high speed lifts, 1000 HKD tower guns and a sushi bar are not in the plan. If that's what you expect you might as well move on now.....


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## Whaleback-Mountain (Aug 24, 2016)

From up here at Whaleback Mountain we wish the new owners and operators the best of luck - it is exciting to see local hills get a breath of fresh air and a new lease on life!


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> Yeah sure but being a bit more aggressive in supporting Magic will help assure its there for you on those powder days. And Magic is always cheaper than the mega resorts. Money is money, right?



I don't pay full price for tickets anywhere so not really a factor. I hear what you're saying but consider that Magic is already my most skied mountain in Southern VT... I could ski at Stratton just as cheap but go to Magic to avoid crowds and have a solid ski day. I also like to switch it up so I'll probably do a day at Mount Snow, maybe one at Stratton, other than that it's Killington and points north for better snow and (on average) better terrain.

I don't always go on a powder day but I do like Magic best with a couple inches of freshies


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## sull1102 (Aug 24, 2016)

Have to disagree with Magic being cheaper than the big boys, at least last year. If you know what you're doing you can ski Mt. Snow, K-ton, or even Stratton for cheaper than Magic with Liftopia and other deals. I hope the team coming in looks at the competition and realizes there needs to be a good hard look at ticket pricing.


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## gmcunni (Aug 24, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> Have to disagree with Magic being cheaper than the big boys, at least last year. If you know what you're doing you can ski Mt. Snow, K-ton, or even Stratton for cheaper than Magic with Liftopia and other deals. I hope the team coming in looks at the competition and realizes there needs to be a good hard look at ticket pricing.



there are always deals at different places.

with CT ski club you can (last season) ski Magic any sat/sun for $50 day.  special days @ $45.  other places you mention have similar special days +/- $5 but not every weekend.    if they have the same offers this year i'm sure i'll be there a few times despite my season pass @ Peak Resorts


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## slatham (Aug 24, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> Have to disagree with Magic being cheaper than the big boys, at least last year. If you know what you're doing you can ski Mt. Snow, K-ton, or even Stratton for cheaper than Magic with Liftopia and other deals. I hope the team coming in looks at the competition and realizes there needs to be a good hard look at ticket pricing.



Last years management charged full holiday rates for one top to bottom WROD. Full price. It was insane, and no indication of the new management.


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## ss20 (Aug 24, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> $1 to maybe $2 million investment over 5 years isn't going to cut it.



Completely agree.  Even if every hour of labor was free from volunteers I have trouble seeing how $1 million could fix Black and get snowmaking up to the 70% threshold.  And is this same $ figure also covering basic year-to-year maintenance?  Stretching $200,000-$400,000 a year to do maintenance and get (essentially) an entire snowmaking system rebuilt and rebuilding a lift that has not ran for 2 seasons sounds like a hefty task.


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## Smellytele (Aug 24, 2016)

I got stuck with a few groupons that I couldn't use (never wanted to ski the WROD) also Mountain sports clubnever sent me the 2 I was supposed to get from them because Magic never sent them the tickets. Also I asked MSC to refund me they kept saying they were going to but never received that either. Glad there are new owners and won't join MSC again. Once bitten twice shy.


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## chuckstah (Aug 24, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> I got stuck with a few groupons that I couldn't use (never wanted to ski the WROD) also Mountain sports clubnever sent me the 2 I was supposed to get from them because Magic never sent them the tickets. Also I asked MSC to refund me they kept saying they were going to but never received that either. Glad there are new owners and won't join MSC again. Once bitten twice shy.



You should still be able to use the Groupon for the value that you paid.  The promotional value expires but not the price paid. You should be able to apply the amount paid toward a ticket.  However, the recent sale could possibly void this, as the business technically no longer exists.  I would also call MSC again when/if vouchers become available and ask for some for this season.


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## slatham (Aug 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Completely agree.  Even if every hour of labor was free from volunteers I have trouble seeing how $1 million could fix Black and get snowmaking up to the 70% threshold.  And is this same $ figure also covering basic year-to-year maintenance?  Stretching $200,000-$400,000 a year to do maintenance and get (essentially) an entire snowmaking system rebuilt and rebuilding a lift that has not ran for 2 seasons sounds like a hefty task.



There has already been significant work on Black. It is not a "complete rebuild" by any means. There is work to be done but the lift specialists  are on site with a plan that the lift inspector has reviewed. 

Same with snowmaking. Pipes technically cover 70%. Lots of repair work to be done to get to 70% coverage, but the core 30-50% is ready to go and the rest requires welding repaire, not "rebuilding". We just need Do Work to, well, do some welding work!

And to be clear, they have more than $1mm....


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2016)

Didn't the hopeful Saddleback co-op say they needed $3m-$6m just to be able to open this season. $20m over 4 years.


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## drjeff (Aug 24, 2016)

I think the largest hindrance to Magic getting 70% functional snowmaking capacity isn't leaky pipes, but lack of water supply to cover 70% of the mountain. From what I understand, their snowmaking pond isn't very large and doesn't have the greatest refill rate


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2016)

drjeff said:


> I think the largest hindrance to Magic getting 70% functional snowmaking capacity isn't leaky pipes, but lack of water supply to cover 70% of the mountain. From what I understand, their snowmaking pond isn't very large and doesn't have the greatest refill rate


Yeah they should rip off some EB-5 investors to increase capacity.

Oh wait someone's already doing that.


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## mtl1076 (Aug 24, 2016)

refill rate is actually pretty darn good with a couple options to give it a boost when needed.  That said, at some point rebuilding the dam to the old height will be needed.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 24, 2016)

People keep referencing 70% snowmaking, but the article clearly states that the goal is to bring snowmaking from 30% to 50% by the fifth year. That's not a major increase / expense for a small ski area like Magic.   I'm sure some of that expense will be upfront with initial investment and some with reinvestment of profits.

Get the Black going, manage the place better, hope for some average to above average winters and hopefully things work out.  This is Magic we're talking about.  It doesn't sound like they want to change things all that much, just offer a bit more consistent of a product.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 24, 2016)

They did mention getting a lift up on Green Line. How do you know that won't be a Six Pack Bubble?


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> People keep referencing 70% snowmaking, but the article clearly states that the goal is to bring snowmaking from 30% to 50% by the fifth year. That's not a major increase / expense for a small ski area like Magic.


Nah only a 66.67% increase.


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 24, 2016)

Guys, we are looking to do a couple of things with a reasonable amount of capital expenditures given the size of the opportunity.  There has to be a return on investment. It's a business. Magic has a different profile and care must be taken to stay within that wheel house. Magic actually has some business efficiencies that need to be capitalized on. Spend too much capital and add significantly to your operating expenses for the mtn type and you'll never get a return. Not enough capital and you never get out of your revenue hole.

We will be letting folks know more once we close. But we are trying to be prudent in investment compared to the realistic revenue and customer growth opp. Any of you guys who ski Okemo, Stratton and Mount Snow etc--all good areas--we don't want to be like them and we don't want to spend like them. Magic is not about attracting the same clientele (fancy word). Magic is about capturing the ski enthusiast--a subset. That doesn't mean "expert". It means a passion for the sport above all else. Yeah magic has some millionaires, but you can't tell who they are. Their priorities are different and so are ours.

We are going to spend enough to grow the business to self sustaining profitability.

We want our employees to share in that profitability.

The areas we will focus on are lifts: we need to have two summit lifts for reliability, redundancy and crowd dispersion. As we grow, we want as few lines and no crowds on the slopes still. Fixed grips are the way to go for us. In the short term that's finishing Black repairs (a tall task and expensive). Will we replace it someday? Undoubtedly. But it will be w/ another fixed grip chair. No wind holds, crowd dispersion, conversations/new friends, and no huge capital expenditure for HSQ that would take decades to pay off. In addition we will add a beginner carpet to improve our family, learn to ski product. Finally we are actively looking at mid mtn lift to open earlier in subsequent years (quicker to open w/ snowmaking footprint and begin youth programs) as well as have a graduated option for beginners and inters.

Secondly there is snowmaking. For godsake most people out there think we don't even make snow. Last year didn't help. But we do and we have the operating budget to make more snow this year even without any dramatic improvement to the system. We will now see what it takes to drain our pond which has never happened. New guns will be purchased. We think we can get to 40% of trails (east and west). But we shall see. But eventually we want to get to 50%. With the data we've seen, when Magic gets to 40-50% of trails open, then day ticket sales respond dramatically. We don't need 90% coverage like the big resorts.   We have the terrain and lift system that makes less feel like more. We have skiers that love the way natural snow skis. So when ma nature delivers we get it all. When it doesn't, then we still get great runs on both east and west with 40-50%.

Now, water is always an issue as is water pressure up steep 1600' vertical so we can maximize energy efficient guns. On the Lower half, adding new HKDs will allow improved snowmaking efficiency right away. Longer term, we are actively looking at making sure we have enough water (pond replenishment) and enough pressure to cover our 50% goal efficiently--roughly 65 acres. While not easy, it is doable and realistic. 70%+ is not realistic nor necessary for the type of area we want to be, the customer we need to attract, or what can provide a reasonable ROI.

Could you spend $10m on a new snowmaking system? Yes. Could you spend $6m on lifts? Yes. Can you ever get a return on that at Magic? Nope. 

So while we haven't raised EB-5 money, we have raised enough money to buy the mountain and property with no debt, and we have at least $1.5m+ to improve our product to the point of a more consistently reliable ski experience unlike anything else in SoVT while ALSO having $500k reserves for operating and capex in case of a rainy day. 

SKI MAGIC investors believe this is a good initial funding for our 5-year plan. If we grow the business like we think and run it more efficiently than our competitors, like we think, then there will be more opportunities and more $.

There are of course no guarantees and there are always other business models and other ways to go. But we're trying it this way and we certainly can't do this in a vacuum. We need and will always accept help (Volunteers!) and advice. We wouldn't do this if Magic wasn't unique and special. And that uniqueness and staying true to what makes Magic special is the key to success.

Sorry for the long post. I'm sure I've missed a few things (like the lodge) but it's a start. More to come!

Think snow!

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## deadheadskier (Aug 24, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Nah only a 66.67% increase.



Do some more math Steamboat. Magic only has 135 acres of trails. Why don't you bust out that calculator and tell us how many acres they need to add to get from 30 to 50%.

Hint: it's not a lot


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> do some more math steamboat. Magic only has 135 acres of trails. Why don't you bust out that calculator and tell us how many acres they need to add to get from 30 to 50%.
> 
> Hint: It's not a lot


lol!


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## slatham (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks for the detailed post JM. Best of luck closing the deal and getting her up and running for a white Christmas!


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## slatham (Aug 25, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> People keep referencing 70% snowmaking, but the article clearly states that the goal is to bring snowmaking from 30% to 50% by the fifth year. That's not a major increase / expense for a small ski area like Magic.   I'm sure some of that expense will be upfront with initial investment and some with reinvestment of profits.
> 
> Get the Black going, manage the place better, hope for some average to above average winters and hopefully things work out.  This is Magic we're talking about.  It doesn't sound like they want to change things all that much, just offer a bit more consistent of a product.



Re: the 70% snowmaking number? This is how much terrain has pipes on it. But most are not functional so it's not really relevant, and to JM's post, not necessary. Previous years actual coverage has been circa 30%, as JM states their goal is to get to 50% coverage which I agree offers enough terrain to attract skiers who want to escape the crowds (and I use my family as a prime example).


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## xwhaler (Aug 25, 2016)

I think it's awesome that the new group recognizes that Magic skis a lot better on man made snow when they can offer routes off both the East and West Side.
Lapping Trick to Showoff can get a bit old. I wonder what the plan is for West side routes for snowmaking?
A couple yrs ago I recall skiing on man made on Talisman, Sorcerer and one year they actually blew snow the entire length of Wizard to the bottom.

Wizard T2B probably takes a ton of snow so I wonder if they could reduce the costs by offering Bail Out (off Tali) and then blowing snow on Heart of Magician and Lower Magician?
No idea if pipe works over there but just looking at the map would appear to be fewer total acres to cover while still providing multiple routes on the West Side.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 25, 2016)

slatham said:


> Re: the 70% snowmaking number? This is how much terrain has pipes on it. But most are not functional so it's not really relevant, and to JM's post, not necessary. Previous years actual coverage has been circa 30%, as JM states their goal is to get to 50% coverage which I agree offers enough terrain to attract skiers who want to escape the crowds (and I use my family as a prime example).



We're on the same page. I was addressing previous posters who were throwing the 70% figure out there without reading the rest of the article and seeing what the actual plan is.  Agreed JM explains their intentions well.  If those plans don't work for certain types of skiers, they've got plenty of other alternatives to ski in the area.


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## JoeB-Z (Aug 25, 2016)

slatham said:


> Re: the 70% snowmaking number? This is how much terrain has pipes on it. But most are not functional so it's not really relevant, and to JM's post, not necessary. Previous years actual coverage has been circa 30%, as JM states their goal is to get to 50% coverage which I agree offers enough terrain to attract skiers who want to escape the crowds (and I use my family as a prime example).



There is no need to make snow in the upper center of the mountain from Twilight Zone over to Magician and Broomstick. Any pipes there can just lay fallow. That is a lot of terrain in itself. 50% sounds like a great plan to me.


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## WoodCore (Aug 25, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> I wonder what the plan is for West side routes for snowmaking?
> A couple yrs ago I recall skiing on man made on Talisman, Sorcerer and one year they actually blew snow the entire length of Wizard to the bottom.
> 
> Wizard T2B probably takes a ton of snow so I wonder if they could reduce the costs by offering Bail Out (off Tali) and then blowing snow on Heart of Magician and Lower Magician?
> ...



Don't quote me on it but pretty sure Heart of the Magician does not have snowmaking pipe installed. That being said another option for an additional snowmaking route on the west side would be to blow Witch and Bail Out to Blackline. I assume the piping on Blackline above Hocus Pocus is in disrepair and would require alot of snow due to the width and terrain however IMHO this may be the most important piece of trail to bury with snow. It's central to both the East and West sides, gives the ability to open other feeder/access trails that require less snow and most importantly is the biggest visual icon of Magic. 

First impressions are the most important so ask yourself what might go through the mind of a first time Magic skier driving up access road and seeing the rocks, dirt and brown of Black Line in it's usual state? The rest of the trails might be in great shape but seeing the most visible trail from the access road, parking lot and lodge goes a long way swaying the initial opinion in the negative direction before the consumers even get up on the hill. I wouldn't doubt that folks have driven in, looked at the mess up on Black Line and pulled a U-turn.


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## slatham (Aug 25, 2016)

WoodCore said:


> Don't quote me on it but pretty sure Heart of the Magician does not have snowmaking pipe installed. That being said another option for an additional snowmaking route on the west side would be to blow Witch and Bail Out to Blackline. I assume the piping on Blackline above Hocus Pocus is in disrepair and would require alot of snow due to the width and terrain however IMHO this may be the most important piece of trail to bury with snow. It's central to both the East and West sides, gives the ability to open other feeder/access trails that require less snow and most importantly is the biggest visual icon of Magic.
> 
> First impressions are the most important so ask yourself what might go through the mind of a first time Magic skier driving up access road and seeing the rocks, dirt and brown of Black Line in it's usual state? The rest of the trails might be in great shape but seeing the most visible trail from the access road, parking lot and lodge goes a long way swaying the initial opinion in the negative direction before the consumers even get up on the hill. I wouldn't doubt that folks have driven in, looked at the mess up on Black Line and pulled a U-turn.



I think your logic on Witch to Blackline Is spot on. It is also less linear feet than getting Wizard to Tali and the runout covered, yet gives you a challenging expert trail. And the visual impact of clearly seeing snowmaking and solid coverage on Blackline is compelling. 

A few years back it was mentioned that the pipes on Witch/Blackline were repaired. Regardless, you won't know until they light it up and see if it holds.


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## jimk (Aug 25, 2016)

Sorry for a bit of a hijack, but to those who know both, which is better on a good day:  Magic Mtn or Saddleback?  I skied Saddleback in 2012 in good conditions and thought it was a beautiful and fairly challenging ski area.  I only skied Magic a couple days back in the '80s in marginal conditions when the groomers were decent, but the glades weren't open.


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## dlague (Aug 25, 2016)

jimk said:


> Sorry for a bit of a hijack, but to those who know both, which is better on a good day:  Magic Mtn or Saddleback?  I skied Saddleback in 2012 in good conditions and thought it was a beautiful and fairly challenging ski area.  I only skied Magic a couple days back in the '80s in marginal conditions when the groomers were decent, but the glades weren't open.



I would have to say Saddleback.  The whole area serviced by the  Kennebago Lift is probably larger than Magic and the are some serious glades up there.  Also no run outs on to intermediate/beginner trails.  Set up as pods. I could go on.  Chair lift there is better too.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 25, 2016)

jimk said:


> Sorry for a bit of a hijack, but to those who know both, which is better on a good day:  Magic Mtn or Saddleback?  I skied Saddleback in 2012 in good conditions and thought it was a beautiful and fairly challenging ski area.  I only skied Magic a couple days back in the '80s in marginal conditions when the groomers were decent, but the glades weren't open.



Saddleback by a mile.


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## xwhaler (Aug 25, 2016)

Yea love Magic but hard to compare a 1600' mtn with a low base elevation with a high Alpine 2k mtn with acres upon acres of terrain.   Both are awesome in their own ways but can't really be compared to one another.   Magic remains the very best 1500-2k vert mtn in New England


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## slatham (Aug 25, 2016)

Went for a hike at Magic today and was very happy to see Red turning! The lift crew was doing some work inside given the rain. They have also started to prep the summit terminal of Black for some work too. Will try to upload some pics. Great to see work in motion.


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## xwhaler (Aug 25, 2016)

As an low cost alternative to massive snowmaking upgrades a good trail clearing would go a long way in allowing the mtn to open on limited natural and/or man made.  Hopefully the volunteer crews and mtn can make some good headway with that this fall either on weed wackers or heavy duty brush mowers.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 25, 2016)

Tin said:


> He is still mad about Hans Thorner railing Mrs. Steamboat back in the day. Can't blame him for hating the place.



Your a class act dude mentioning my wife (what a low life). You'd have a hard time keeping your hands out of your pants pockets playing with yourself if you saw my wife. Introduce yourself one day so I can kick you in the balls.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 25, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> Yea love Magic but hard to compare a 1600' mtn with a low base elevation with a high Alpine 2k mtn with acres upon acres of terrain.   Both are awesome in their own ways but can't really be compared to one another.   Magic remains the very best 1500-2k vert mtn in New England



I give Bolton Valley the edge for low-key 1500-2000k vert. Then again that's another discussion.

edit: Just realized Pico comes in at 1,967..    BV still wins when it's full on though


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## Smellytele (Aug 26, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I give Bolton Valley the edge for low-key 1500-2000k vert. Then again that's another discussion.
> 
> edit: Just realized Pico comes in at 1,967..    BV still wins when it's full on though



I would not order them that way and but more of a Magic, Pico, BV order. I like all 3.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 26, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Your a class act dude mentioning my wife (what a low life). You'd have a hard time keeping your hands out of your pants pockets playing with yourself if you saw my wife. Introduce yourself one day so I can kick you in the balls.



Almost word for word reply to a post by Highway Star over on KZone....


----------



## farlep99 (Aug 26, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Your a class act dude mentioning my wife (what a low life). You'd have a hard time keeping your hands out of your pants pockets playing with yourself if you saw my wife. Introduce yourself one day so I can kick you in the balls.



Why would he introduce himself if you're going to kick him in the balls?  That makes no sense


----------



## bdfreetuna (Aug 26, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> Why would he introduce himself if you're going to kick him in the balls?  That makes no sense



He's not Japanese is he?


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 26, 2016)

WWF-VT said:


> Almost word for word reply to a post by Highway Star over on KZone....


Yes both low lives brought my wife into the conversation in a demeaning manner.

Do you think that's OK?

Would you like for me to talk shit about your wife?

Why do you even mention my response?

Must be a low life too!


----------



## skidder (Aug 28, 2016)

And now back to our topic of Magic Mtn.  

Looking forward to a great season.  





Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 28, 2016)

FLAGS !!!  billski for prez 2016


----------



## xwhaler (Aug 29, 2016)

Does anyone recall what yr is was that Magic opened Sorcerer on man made snow? I recall skiing it within the last 5 yrs and it was open after some repairs had been done (for just that 1 season)

Maybe 12-13 or 13-14?
Talisman was also open on man made as a way to access it.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Aug 29, 2016)

idk but Master Magician has never been opened even when I go and the snow is deep


----------



## mtl1076 (Aug 29, 2016)

Sorceror, to the best of my knowledge has not had functional snow making since at least 2006.  They can make snow at the top on Wizard and push it down but the pipe needs work and to be reconnected to make snow on the actual trail. I'm stoked to hear they are giving it a go this fall.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Aug 29, 2016)

That's right. It's been at least since 06. But we're going to try to repair it.  

Master/Upper Magician has been open a few different times (yes, no rope) in the last few years (12/13, 13/14 and 14/15) except of course for last year when the entire west side never opened.


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----------



## Do Work (Aug 30, 2016)

slatham said:


> I think your logic on Witch to Blackline Is spot on. It is also less linear feet than getting Wizard to Tali and the runout covered, yet gives you a challenging expert trail. And the visual impact of clearly seeing snowmaking and solid coverage on Blackline is compelling.
> 
> A few years back it was mentioned that the pipes on Witch/Blackline were repaired. Regardless, you won't know until they light it up and see if it holds.





People are way too hung up on what the assumed percentage of coverage is by the snowmaking system.  There are a million ways to skin a cat and the knife gets sharper every day.  West side snowmaking ability is definitely a priority though.  Efficiency improvements and gun upgrades will go a long way as well but the simple things like a dependable easy way down and quick setup of cash generators that have been neglected in the past also make a big impact when your operating costs are relatively so low.  

Witch->Black would likely be faster and cheaper to do than Wiz->Tali and I agree the statement alone in having it all blown in for the first time since the 80s is pretty big.  From there Sorc is the next cheapest and that will also be online for this season.  The whole mountain is going through a big fat checklist of testing and cataloging and I am over the moon that the new group has the desire and wherewithal to actually utilize all the pipe Magic has.  To see the things they've immediately targeted and taken action on is incredibly exciting.  There will always be detractors who with a "someone else's checkbook is never large enough for my ambitions" type of attitude but that isn't what this is about, nor do I really think that's what fits the bill in this case.  Honestly if someone was spending more faster on the projects at hand, they'd be wasting money somewhere and bang for the buck counts more than ever.  The crews out right now are focused and executing exactly as planned- yes if we could have had the original timeline of this spring we'd be farther along, but there's nothing we can do about that but double our efforts now and tack on a few weekends for good measure.  

Loving the tone of the new thread though, thank you for that!  The platitudes will have to suffice until the Due Diligence period is over, but rest assured there will be a multitude of very tangible changes.  Many of the complaints and criticisms ive read here are verbatim what has been voiced by the exact people who are on this buyout team, except with more yelling and fist pounding too btw- they were literally so pissed they put up a few million bucks and spent 3 years trying to get here!  So to all you skeptical curmudgeons- you're preaching to the choir!  This buyout team is sick of watching this jewel mismanaged and limped along too.  If people *really do* want that kind of classic experience to survive though, slatham is absolutely right- it's time to show up or shut up.  The Magic crew is working harder than ever on all fronts and is throwing the doors (and their arms) open, and the holdouts WILL be amazed when they realize what they've been missing.  

Last year was atrocious, but even if that weather was to repeat itself with none of the improvements allotted and underway for this season, the mountain would still be infinitely better equipped to deal with that contingency.  I have never been more confident or optimistic about Magic's future, and every single day it gets brighter.  I will spare people fluff, but I just want people to know that things are happening very quickly.  Stay tuned and stay stoked!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Aug 30, 2016)

Sweet looks like you all are getting busy on Facebook lately. Certainly inspiring confidence.


----------



## Los (Aug 31, 2016)

farlep99 said:


> Why would he introduce himself if you're going to kick him in the balls?  That makes no sense



Hahaha good point! 

Steamboat - that's a really disgusting way to defend your wife's honor. You should be ashamed of yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## gmcunni (Aug 31, 2016)

I'm not sure why AlpineZone wasn't granted exclusive access for press. 

https://m.soundcloud.com/mtnra/magic-mountain-vt-soon-to-be-owner-geoff-hatheway-interview-83016


----------



## slatham (Sep 3, 2016)

Love seeing all the social media updates and work that is being done. Great shot this am on instagram of the Black counter weight wheel getting some love. I pray for no surprises......


----------



## skidder (Sep 4, 2016)

Great terrain. Awesome vibe.  Love this mountain and look forward to hearing more about the success going forward.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Sep 5, 2016)

Info on pass pricing has been posted on the Magic web site. Not for sale until deal closes. Some great deals to be had. Take a look.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 5, 2016)

Magic just went loco in a good way with the season's pass options. Some pretty cheap options that still get you a lot of skiing.

http://www.magicmtn.com/seasonpass.php


----------



## Tin (Sep 5, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Magic just went loco in a good way with the season's pass options. Some pretty cheap options that still get you a lot of skiing.
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/seasonpass.php




Absolute steals! I will getting the shredder pass and throwback card for ye ole lady.


----------



## cdskier (Sep 5, 2016)

There's some very creative/innovative pass options in there.


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 6, 2016)

Magic benefits for Whaleback passholders too! Love it. Great partnership idea.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 6, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> Magic benefits for Whaleback passholders too! Love it. Great partnership idea.




I want Plattekill/Hickory on that team so bad- it would be a perfect fit!


----------



## slatham (Sep 6, 2016)

Do Work said:


> I want Plattekill/Hickory on that team so bad- it would be a perfect fit!



Saddleback too if they ever get the coop going. We could call it the "Retro Pass": Platty, Hickory, Magic, Whaleback, Saddleback.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 6, 2016)

slatham said:


> Saddleback too if they ever get the coop going. We could call it the "Retro Pass": Platty, Hickory, Magic, Whaleback, Saddleback.




So much skiing, so little pretense...


----------



## 4aprice (Sep 6, 2016)

Do Work said:


> I want Plattekill/Hickory on that team so bad- it would be a perfect fit!



From what I saw on Facebook the guy( new owner ) from Tenney "liked" the Magic news.  There's a good team, Magic-Tenney.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## Savemeasammy (Sep 6, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> Magic benefits for Whaleback passholders too! Love it. Great partnership idea.






Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 6, 2016)

So who's buying......


----------



## WoodCore (Sep 6, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> So who's buying......



I'm in!


----------



## Los (Sep 7, 2016)

4aprice said:


> From what I saw on Facebook the guy( new owner ) from Tenney "liked" the Magic news.  There's a good team, Magic-Tenney.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Magic-Tenney-Whaleback seems like the perfect combo. 

That Vermonter parent/child deal is sick. If you're a Vermonter that is! C'mon magic - share the love with yer NH brethren!!


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----------



## Smellytele (Sep 7, 2016)

Los said:


> Magic-Tenney-Whaleback seems like the perfect combo.
> 
> That Vermonter parent/child deal is sick. If you're a Vermonter that is! C'mon magic - share the love with yer NH brethren!!
> 
> ...



I was hoping for that as well...


----------



## slatham (Sep 7, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> I was hoping for that as well...



You guys do realize they need to make some money right? I think the Vermonter deal is a great idea to get more of the local community involved with Magic at a great price point. But that local community is not in NH or NY or MA. And there are great deals for everyone else anyhow!


----------



## Smellytele (Sep 7, 2016)

slatham said:


> You guys do realize they need to make some money right? I think the Vermonter deal is a great idea to get more of the local community involved with Magic at a great price point. But that local community is not in NH or NY or MA. And there are great deals for everyone else anyhow!



No really? I thought everyone should make sure I am the benefactor of all deals. 

To be honest though they did have this deal below so it really wasn't that far fetched.

*Vermonter/NH Days* (Fridays  and Sundays) For Vermont and New Hampshire, full-time residents, all  non-holiday Sunday full-day tickets are at weekday rates (ex: $49 for  adults). All Fridays (non-holiday) full day tickets are at half-day  rates (ex: $39 for adults)! Must have valid Vermont/NH driver's license  or for those under 18, local school ID at the ticket booth.


----------



## WWF-VT (Sep 7, 2016)

cdskier said:


> There's some very creative/innovative pass options in there.



Dartmouth Alumni pass for $399.....isn't that like pocket change when you work on Wall Street ?


----------



## jrmagic (Sep 7, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Magic just went loco in a good way with the season's pass options. Some pretty cheap options that still get you a lot of skiing.
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/seasonpass.php



I guess I will be seeing you on exactly or twice then.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm aiming for between 2 and 4 days at Magic this season depending how good the snow is in Southern VT. Not enough to pull the trigger on any kind of pass. I'll probably end up getting a bit of a discount thru Mountain Sports Club.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 8, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I'm aiming for between 2 and 4 days at Magic this season depending how good the snow is in Southern VT. Not enough to pull the trigger on any kind of pass. I'll probably end up getting a bit of a discount thru Mountain Sports Club.




Florence!  Nice area!  Just out of curiosity, what would be "enough" in your eyes to get you to pull the trigger on a pass?


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 8, 2016)

I'm not really big into skiing at any one place too many times in a season. Have never bought a pass for any mountain. I tend to look for the deals which allow me to ski all over especially in VT. I have about 25 days in an average season to ski.

The most attractive offers to me which would get me to ski a mountain more than it's usual share are good deals on 4-packs or other similar ticket bundles. Or if I see you at the Boston Ski Show and you have some kind of special going on along those lines.

For me I would probably only buy a season's pass if I knew it would come out to under $30 each day of skiing, as a maximum.

But part of the fun of skiing for me is going to all different places each season so I'm probably not the target audience for your *very good* season's pass deals.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Sep 8, 2016)

My Cannon pass cost $599 this year.30 days is $20/day.But thats not Vermont.


----------



## cdskier (Sep 8, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> My Cannon pass cost $599 this year.30 days is $20/day.But thats not Vermont.



My Early 30s Sugarbush pass would get me under $30/day once I ski 17 days. It was a nice surprise to get a refund on my CC this month when they announced that pass. I thought Tuna was around my age or maybe even younger...so he can certainly get good passes for VT that would get him under $30/day without needing to ski that many days. But I can also see the allure of wanting to ski multiple areas and going for individual ticket deals instead as a result.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 8, 2016)

I'm 33.

That's impressive skiing 17+ days at Sugarbush coming up from NJ.

I might go for a pass if I literally lived within a few minutes of a really good mountain. But I'm able to ski at about $40/day with a lot of freedom (and deal hunting). I have a complimentary Cumberland Farms gas card as well so that takes away a lot of the sting of traveling further distances.

Magic definitely takes the cake when conditions are nice and I don't really feel like spending half the day driving.


----------



## cdskier (Sep 8, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> That's impressive skiing 17+ days at Sugarbush coming up from NJ.



My goal is around 40 days. I only had 28 last year and just under 40 the 2 prior years.

Yes it is a long drive every weekend, but you quickly get used to it and it becomes quite routine (and oh so worth it once you get out on the mountain).


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## steamboat1 (Sep 8, 2016)

cdskier said:


> My goal is around 40 days. I only had 28 last year and just under 40 the 2 prior years.
> 
> Yes it is a long drive every weekend, but you quickly get used to it and it becomes quite routine (and oh so worth it once you get out on the mountain).


I feel the same way about the drive & reward. Goal is usually around 40 days. I came up a couple days short myself last season (37). All in central/northern VT. driving from Brooklyn, NY except 1 day at Stratton in southern VT. I try to get up every other week for a few days between Dec.-Apr.


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## Do Work (Sep 8, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I'm not really big into skiing at any one place too many times in a season. Have never bought a pass for any mountain. I tend to look for the deals which allow me to ski all over especially in VT. I have about 25 days in an average season to ski.
> 
> The most attractive offers to me which would get me to ski a mountain more than it's usual share are good deals on 4-packs or other similar ticket bundles. Or if I see you at the Boston Ski Show and you have some kind of special going on along those lines.
> 
> ...




Makes perfect sense!  I used to do the same thing and go to as many different mountains I could before I really got into Magic.  I only ask because I'm from Wilbraham and you're about 20-30 minutes closer.


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## Los (Sep 8, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> But part of the fun of skiing for me is going to all different places each season so I'm probably not the target audience for your *very good* season's pass deals.



Definitely! Could not agree more. 


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 13, 2016)

Volunteer Days begin on Saturday at 9am with more coming on 10/8 and 10/22.

Thanks for the support! 


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 14, 2016)

In.  A few of us got a jump & went up Sunday.  Bottom of Twilight looks nice & clean.  No longer is there one way out.   DW has some pics.  I go this one.  Good things to come.  See you Saturday.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice pic


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 14, 2016)

Looks like the pot of gold is right about under the Swiss flag.


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## reefer (Sep 14, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> In.  A few of us got a jump & went up Sunday.  Bottom of Twilight looks nice & clean.  No longer is there one way out.   DW has some pics.  I go this one.  Good things to come.  See you Saturday.





Nice!
Futures so bright I gotta wear shades


----------



## slatham (Sep 14, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Volunteer Days begin on Saturday at 9am with more coming on 10/8 and 10/22.
> 
> Thanks for the support!
> 
> ...



Planning on Oct 8th volunteer day. I am up the weekend prior too so I might do a solo commando raid on a favorite creek bed that needs thinning....


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 17, 2016)

I volunteered and all I got was this t-shirt...Thanks to the 30+ vols who came out today! 


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## yeggous (Sep 18, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> I volunteered and all I got was this t-shirt...Thanks to the 30+ vols who came out today! View attachment 20654
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Not even a lift ticket?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2016)

People actually "volunteer" here. But food, mucho bevies and Ts are provided. 


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## slatham (Sep 18, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> People actually "volunteer" here. But food, mucho bevies and Ts are provided.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Food, beer AND a fancy T shirt? Don't go all "resort" on me JM! But I hope you saved some for the 8th, they look sweet.


----------



## 4aprice (Sep 18, 2016)

Guy at the front is wearing a Stratton T, no?  Still very admirable, the dedication of Magic regulars.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2016)

Well let's just say that one shirt was a "non-sanctioned version" of the Stratton logo...


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## gmcunni (Sep 18, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> I volunteered and all I got was this t-shirt...Thanks to the 30+ vols who came out today! View attachment 20654
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Any AZers in this photo?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> Any AZers in this photo?



You bet there are!


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## slatham (Sep 18, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> Any AZers in this photo?



At the least Do Work, Rusty Groomer and of course Jamaica Man. I recognize a few others but not sure of their AZ status. I wasn't there but plan on the 8th. You should join the team!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 18, 2016)

:beer:


----------



## jrmagic (Sep 19, 2016)

Im bummed I couldnt make it this weekend but looks like lots of work is getting done!! Looking forward to being there 10/8!


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## reefer (Sep 19, 2016)

*Great day to take a hike.............*

Did partake in some hiking/trimming. Nice to meet some of the Magic faithful. Was too dedicated and still on the hill when the photo was taken. Did get a nice spiffy shirt. Hope to make it for the next one.

Crew out early working on ole Red






Volunteers gathering







Follow the yellow grass trail







You know I turned-up Zeps Stairway to Heaven as I went up Show Off










Walking (briskly) through "Spider Alley" freaked me out. About 100yards and hundreds of webs.











Mr Work and Mr Groomer did a fine job on second exit of Twilight Zone last week. The main exit is at bottom right of second pic. New exit about 50 yards further up hill.











No mystery what drives my behavior







Before and after of entrance to this no-name. Hiked down and picked up all the deadwood. This little ditty is ready to go.










Couldn't help myself......
They do look nice!


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## slatham (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks for the pictures. Great work on the Twilight exit and the un-named glade! And glad them flags are a flying!


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## Do Work (Sep 23, 2016)

reefer said:


> Did partake in some hiking/trimming. Nice to meet some of the Magic faithful. Was too dedicated and still on the hill when the photo was taken. Did get a nice spiffy shirt. Hope to make it for the next one.
> 
> Crew out early working on ole Red
> 
> ...





Nice shots, thanks for posting and thanks even more for coming out!  Can't wait for the other work days!!


----------



## p_levert (Sep 25, 2016)

Magic joins Freedom Pass:

http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 25, 2016)

p_levert said:


> Magic joins Freedom Pass:
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php



Good move IMO. 


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## Jully (Sep 25, 2016)

p_levert said:


> Magic joins Freedom Pass:
> 
> http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php



Interesting changes. I like the 3 ticket system. If I lived closer to any of those mountains I'd be really interested.


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## 2Planker (Sep 27, 2016)

Anyone here remember Timberside ??  Magic had bought it  and connected them in '86. Had some good terrain ! 
Double chair was sold to Smuggs after things went belly up in '91. We used to see Paul Newman there.....

Trails are all there, but it's a 1/2 mile between the Timberside summit and Magic


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 27, 2016)

2Planker said:


> Anyone here remember Timberside ??  Magic had bought it  and connected them in '86. Had some good terrain !
> Double chair was sold to Smuggs after things went belly up in '91. We used to see Paul Newman there.....
> 
> Trails are all there, but it's a 1/2 mile between the Timberside summit and Magic



It's too bad they lost that. Would be cool if it could be revived.


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## Los (Sep 27, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> It's too bad they lost that. Would be cool if it could be revived.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



cool. had no idea. 





http://www.nelsap.org/vt/timber.html

http://newenglandskihistory.com/Vermont/timberridge.php


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 28, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> It's too bad they lost that. Would be cool if it could be revived.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Pretty certain Timberside is now privately owned with some of the trails maintained, but no lifts.


----------



## gmcunni (Sep 28, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Pretty certain Timberside is now privately owned with some of the trails maintained, but no lifts.



In the year 2000, Tim Waker purchased Timber Ridge.  Since purchasing the property, Mr. Waker has renovated the lodge, reclaimed over grown trails, and even added some small snowmaking equipment.  There is no lift service and the area remains private (although certain areas are used as part of the VAST trail network).  In fact, Mr. Waker improved the area so much that the 2009 Snowboarding World Quarterpipe Championships were hosted at Timber Ridge (http://www.yobeat.com/2009/03/23/the-2009-world-quarterpipe-championships/). The ski area has also become a popular location for summer music festivals.

^ source - http://unofficialnetworks.com/2013/05/lost-ski-areas-southern-vermont-unofficial-ski-history


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 28, 2016)

Sucks over there.


----------



## dlague (Sep 28, 2016)

Several years ago my kids wanted to take the lift up then hike to the other side to ski it as a last run of the day and have us pick them up on our way out, but we opted not to drive over there and killed the idea.


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 28, 2016)

I would advise against that.  You'll probably end of skiing (sliding) down the connector trail.  One must hike back up to the top of Timber to get a decent run.  Truth is Timber is very flat.  Powder can be difficult.  It skis best with just a little fresh snow.  Still fun but the best skiing on Glebe by far is the Magic side. As others have said it is private land as well.


----------



## 2Planker (Sep 28, 2016)

I patrolled at Stratton in college (81-85), but we actually used to love Timberside for the lack of crowds, very low price and super easy access.   The parking lot held 20 cars, and you always got a spot.  NEVER a line at the lift and there were some pretty good  "old school" narrow trails. We always did BYOB/food on the deck.  My GF locked our keys in the car while it was running, and a few older dudes from CT were walking their dogs....  They went back to the house, and came back w/ a "Slim Jim" to help us out.  Took 3 mins.  Turned out to be Paul Newman and his buddy Bob Sharp


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 28, 2016)

Enough with this Paul Newman stuff.  He stayed @ the Old Tavern btw, (Grafton Inn). Let's get to the real stars that skied Timber.  Grant Goodeve aka oldest son David on "8 is Enough".  

There's still a Goodeve mailbox to this day.


----------



## 2Planker (Sep 28, 2016)

Ha Ha   WE didn't even know it was him.  Just thought it was very nice for a couple of guys to stop and help us. 

  BTW,  he owned a house there for 20+ years. One of the daughters owns it now


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 28, 2016)

With Newman gone we should work on a Eight is Enough reunion.  Although it might be down to 5 or 6 now.  Anyone remember "Thumper"?  The big St. Bernard.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 29, 2016)

Top of Tali getting a trim


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## slatham (Sep 29, 2016)

Ah Tali....Close eyes, imagine pow hitting knees, accelerate, turn, explosion, snow in smiling mouth, scream with joy, hop, turn, repeat.


----------



## Sorcerer (Oct 5, 2016)

Is there anything new on the closing - like when is it going to happen and when do tickets go on sale?


----------



## slatham (Oct 5, 2016)

Seems like it got moved out slightly. The Events Calendar had a "Closing Party" after this weekends volunteer day, and now its after the one on Oct 22nd. So sometime over the next two weeks if everyone cooperates etc. etc.


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 5, 2016)

Can't sell passes until due diligence work is finished and the deal closes. There is more DD work to be done.


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 9, 2016)

Big turnout yesterday...lots accomplished outside and inside!


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## mriceyman (Oct 9, 2016)

Wish i wasnt 4 hours away .. Ill make sure to support the place this winter tho


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## BabyGuinness (Oct 10, 2016)

Great numbers as to volunteers this weekend!!!
So appreciate the amazing turnout, (50+?)all were of great help that cannot be done alone! There is such an amazing feel of community at Magic that it feels of a *family* that has got to be unrivaled at any other ski area!
It is amazing to work alongside you all...thank you


----------



## BeachCoach (Oct 10, 2016)

Clarification to an earlier post...


That may or may not have been what the shirt actually read in the 1st volunteer day photo shown...designed to make you look close! lol


----------



## jrmagic (Oct 10, 2016)

I may or may not have the same shirt lol


----------



## RustyGroomer (Oct 12, 2016)

X-Post from TGR.  Wanted to add pics here as well.


A-Team







Meanwhile,...........on the other side of the mountain....

Stan the man making Talisman look like Augusta National.












Looks ready to me.






Our crew went up & down & met in zee middle.












Even the kids were getting after it.







Inside there was some floor fixingzzz...







Back to the deck.












Little doggies.






What an awesome turnout & great day.  70+ strong.Amazing.


----------



## dlague (Oct 12, 2016)

Looks awesome!


----------



## mriceyman (Oct 12, 2016)

Thats is awesome to see


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 12, 2016)

it takes a village. good stuff.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 12, 2016)

Beautiful meadows


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## RustyGroomer (Oct 18, 2016)

9am Saturday.  Anyone else in??


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## JoeB-Z (Oct 18, 2016)

I'll be there. Any tool suggestions?


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## RustyGroomer (Oct 18, 2016)

JoeB-Z said:


> I'll be there. Any tool suggestions?



Nice!  I just bring a pack w/small hand saw & pruners.  Loppers are great too, etc.  Anything you can carry comfortably.  Good pair of gloves as moving deadfall is always high on the list.  Water.


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## jrmagic (Oct 19, 2016)

I was aupposed to make the last one and had to bail. Will ddinitely be there Sarurday.


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## mriceyman (Oct 19, 2016)

One day when i live closer i will be able to come help. My patronage will he to do this year. 


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## p_levert (Nov 1, 2016)

New trail map: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwLFuNuWgAAJ11I.jpg

Any news on the closing?


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 1, 2016)

new map is tight! especially with the semi-accurate bands of evergreens


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## Newpylong (Nov 1, 2016)

That is a big improvement, way to go Magic. Can't wait to visit again.


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## Smellytele (Nov 1, 2016)

Can't get to the map for some reason


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## mriceyman (Nov 1, 2016)

I see map fine


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## gmcunni (Nov 1, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Can't get to the map for some reason



this work?


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 1, 2016)

p_levert said:


> New trail map: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwLFuNuWgAAJ11I.jpg
> 
> Any news on the closing?



Trying to get it done by Friday but it may slip to next week if sellers can't get all the docs done. Pushing.


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## slatham (Nov 1, 2016)

Keep pushing J-man, keep pushing. 

Like the map - major improvement, like a lot of aspects of Magic these days!


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## billski (Nov 1, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> FLAGS !!!  billski for prez 2016
> View attachment 20593



Well golly gee wizz...if I am elected, a flag for every helmet!


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## billski (Nov 1, 2016)

Well Jamaica man, you've persuaded me to bulk up on the bulk tickets.  I like your plan.   I'll try to get some of my ski club comrades to come with me for one or two trips.  Just to see those flags will bring a tear to the eye


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 1, 2016)

billski said:


> Well Jamaica man, you've persuaded me to bulk up on the bulk tickets.  I like your plan.   I'll try to get some of my ski club comrades to come with me for one or two trips.  Just to see those flags will bring a tear to the eye



Flags will be welcoming you here, Bill. See you soon. Thanks


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## Tin (Nov 2, 2016)

Map looks awesome! Love the tree contrasts.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 2, 2016)

Agreed, the new map looks great!


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 2, 2016)

Map is awesome.  See you guys this weekend.  Hoping i can spend some money on passes. :grin:


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## prsboogie (Nov 9, 2016)

Anything going on up there? Been pretty quiet on here. 


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## gmcunni (Nov 9, 2016)

from Facebook today:



> Magic Mountain Ski Area
> 
> 
> Purchase Closing Update: Today was to be the day. But, alas, all required documents are not finalized. The bad news: official closing won't be until early next week. The good news: there seem to be no major issues left to be resolved.
> ...


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## mriceyman (Nov 9, 2016)

Paperwork blows


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 9, 2016)

Fortunately, we can multi-task while the paperwork drags on. Lift work and repairs continue unabated, repairs to fan gun electric lines in show off and HP almost done, new pumphouse VFDs arrive while 300 pump motor repaired and new higher horsepower 400 pump motor ordered, new low-e snowguns ordered, pipe repair on sorcerer soon underway, trail mowing completed, new lodge roof more than half way done, new lodge sprinkler system begins to be installed, new painting and mirrors in bathroom, new plan for bar/restaurant area created, new carpeting in the works, new kitchen stoves and other food service equipment purchased, new trail signs created and put up, new lodge signs in works and new additions to road sign done, new fleet of rental shop skis/boots purchased, used terrain park features from Okemo donated, new website created and soon to be launched...

I'm sure I left a few out. But while it's been a bit quiet on AZ, it's been loud at Magic. Literally.






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## mriceyman (Nov 9, 2016)

Great to hear


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## prsboogie (Nov 10, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> Fortunately, we can multi-task while the paperwork drags on. Lift work and repairs continue unabated, repairs to fan gun electric lines in show off and HP almost done, new pumphouse VFDs arrive while 300 pump motor repaired and new higher horsepower 400 pump motor ordered, new low-e snowguns ordered, pipe repair on sorcerer soon underway, trail mowing completed, new lodge roof more than half way done, new lodge sprinkler system begins to be installed, new painting and mirrors in bathroom, new plan for bar/restaurant area created, new carpeting in the works, new kitchen stoves and other food service equipment purchased, new trail signs created and put up, new lodge signs in works and new additions to road sign done, new fleet of rental shop skis/boots purchased, used terrain park features from Okemo donated, new website created and soon to be launched...
> 
> I'm sure I left a few out. But while it's been a bit quiet on AZ, it's been loud at Magic. Literally.
> 
> ...



 Thanks for the update and taking the time away from more pressing issues. Hope to see your or your rep in Boston this weekend!


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## JoeB-Z (Nov 10, 2016)

New website works and I gather I was the 4th person to buy a pass! Website looks great also.


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## makimono (Nov 10, 2016)

website looks slick...purchased a tbcard


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## Tin (Nov 10, 2016)

Website looks incredible. Another great step forward. Grabbed a pass and a throwback pass for the lady.


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## prsboogie (Nov 11, 2016)

Met G today at the Expo, the new map looks even better blown up!! Now they just need papers signed and temps to light up the guns!!


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 16, 2016)

Passes purchased & back to the 1st page.


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## slatham (Nov 16, 2016)

Pass and 4 pack. Hoping for some news on closing this week and the arrival of winter next week!


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 20, 2016)

Thanks Rusty and Steve for the pass purchases! 

Here are a few shots that show work on our warm 60 degree Saturday. 

Knocking down projects in and out of lodge and on the hill with maintenance and repairs to lifts and needed upgrades to the pump houses. Some new guns coming too.) Fortunately before the snow fell today, we completed work on the new lodge roof and repairs to the two fan gun electric lines on show off and hocus pocus. While we are working from behind this season with the late purchase, we still expect to be ready to open by 12/17.



New roof



Red Housing work



New soffits



Beam joist work





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## JamaicaMan (Nov 20, 2016)

...and earlier today






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## VTKilarney (Nov 20, 2016)

What a great thing that see. I wish you all the best this year and hope to see many more.


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## slatham (Nov 20, 2016)

Great to see J-Man - you have done an incredible amount of work and from what I can see you've done it a classic Retro-Magic way. I'm glad the roof and fan gun electrical was wrapped up before the snow. Let's hope this current weather pattern is a sign of things to come. See you next week.


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## rocks860 (Nov 20, 2016)

Looks great, hopefully I'll actually get up there this year


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## billski (Nov 21, 2016)

snow on the hill.  now that's a sight to behold.  Now let's hope the cold sticks around.
What's your snowmaking strategy?

I really appreciate all the infrastructure work you've done.  Unfortunately, I don't think Joe Q. Public will even notice, but it shows you're in it for the long run.  Best wishes, and see you there!


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## Smellytele (Nov 21, 2016)

So has all the paperwork been completed and has the closing taken place yet?


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## slatham (Nov 21, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> So has all the paperwork been completed and has the closing taken place yet?



Web site indicates it could get done today. Fingers and skis crossed.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 21, 2016)

There was so much activity it was hard for me to park Saturday.  Never seen anything like it.  I'm sure they'll be a few kinks along the way but these guys are kicking ass. The most encouraging pre-season day ever for me.  Hard to soak it all in really.  Like a buffoon I forgot pics. Above indicates it well.


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## prsboogie (Nov 21, 2016)

It's really official https://youtu.be/9Qi7NEvtUaE


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## mriceyman (Nov 21, 2016)

Hell yea!


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 21, 2016)

Awesome.  Will be there this winter!!  Nice job and best of luck for a successful first season.


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## slatham (Nov 21, 2016)

Great news for sure. Let's keep this weather pattern cranking cold and snow!


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## Smellytele (Nov 22, 2016)

Great news!!!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 22, 2016)

Niiiice!

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## dlague (Nov 22, 2016)

Long time coming is right!  Great news for Magic.

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## billski (Nov 22, 2016)

Dreams really do come true.  Looking forward to the season.  You guys look like you're ready to handle most any adversity that comes our way.  Can't wait to get back!


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## zoomzoom (Nov 22, 2016)

noice!
me and my ancient rossi bandits will be there on thursdays, assuming we have more snow than last year.  : )


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## slatham (Nov 23, 2016)

Take a look at social media for pictures of new HKD's. Saw them today - 14 towers, 5 portable towers, 5 portable ground guns. Tons of other action happening to get ready for the 17th. Geoff and crew mean business. Let it snow let it snow let it 
snow.....


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## thetrailboss (Nov 23, 2016)

SAM's report on the closing:  http://www.saminfo.com/headline-news/8762-magic-owners-complete-purchase-set-plan


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## Abominable (Nov 28, 2016)

Short interview with Geoff Hatheway -

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...ry.html?p1=Article_Recommended_ReadMore_Pos11

Geoff Hatheway has been skiing since he was 3 years old, when his parents first clicked him in and took him and his siblings on frequent trips to southern Vermont, mostly Stratton, Bromley, and Magic Mountain.

He recalls a period in the 90s when Magic was closed, but when it reopened, it became a natural destination for him to bring his own family as they sought an alternative to larger, more crowded places. Day trips led to more and more involvement in racing and other skiing programs as well as the Magic community. Hatheway even spent some time as the area’s marketing director.

On Nov. 21, however, his role grew exponentially when he announced on YouTube that the sale of the ski area to an investment group he is leading was complete following a lengthy and complicated process. The next day, he discussed it with me in a phone interview. Here are some of his answers from our conversation:

It took a long time to get this done. Was it worth it?

“It’s definitely worth it. Oh yeah. I mean, you just see the response of people that I’ve gotten over the last 24 hours, and you know what a special place this is to those people, and they have an innate trust in what were going to do with the place. This place quite frankly wouldn’t have been here this year if we didn’t get the deal done, so we don’t want to lose a great natural resource that we have here in Magic.”

It sounds like Magic has a unique charm.

“I think every area has its unique charms, and its own drawbacks, and we’ve got our drawbacks, but I think our charm outdoes our drawbacks. And we’re trying to reduce the drawbacks, quite frankly. That’s what our investor group is trying to mitigate - some of the issues that Magic has faced in the past, and those revolve around all our lifts running, and functional, and approved, and all that kind of stuff, and the other part is having enough snowmaking. People don’t even think we make snow, but we do, and we’ve made it over the years but we need to do a better job of making that snow consistently on more trails so there’s a good feeling that no matter what the weather brings, that Magic’s going to have a good variety of terrain.”

What’s on the to-do list then?

“A huge priority for us is getting this second summit lift going, which hasn’t run in two years. It’s a great old lift, but it’s been neglected. We put a lot of money into the thing and we’re getting close on it.”

What do you envision your first run at your own mountain will be like for you personally?

“It’s going to be very sweet. It’s one thing to have been here all this time and contributed on a volunteer basis, it’s another thing to be absolutely 100 percent responsible for the product that you’ve got out there. The first run is going to be mentally satisfying, physically hopefully challenging, and three, I think there will be a lot of analysis going on, because I’m skiing the product and I’m going to be getting that word out about it, so I’m going to be making sure everything is good.”

What can guests expect at Magic in both the short- and long-term?

“In the short term they’re going to get what Magic has always had, which is a really challenging and interesting ski experience on the trails, and in the glades, and just a really warm, friendly, fun community in the lodge and on the slopes. ... What we do want people to notice is that there’s going to be an improvement in the product. ... [In the long term] we’ve got really good plans for bringing back a mid-mountain lift which will make more beginner and intermediate terrain accessible to more people, but also a beginner conveyor belt, a magic carpet in a whole new area, so we’ve got some really good plans to enhance the family aspect of this mountain.”

Opening day is scheduled for Dec. 17.


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## camberstick (Nov 29, 2016)

This has me really excited. Good luck to the new management. I do believe in the viability of a smaller family oriented hill, I personally can't wait to get my kids up there . The soul of magic IS pretty special. Only a handful of these kind of places left on the east.


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## billski (Nov 29, 2016)

Beginner terrain has been a real hole in their offering.  For adults and kids.  Hook 'em on Magic while they're new.  It brings a whole other avenue of revenue.  Beginner terrain begets the whole family, more junk food, more rentals, lessons (lessons, imagine that!) and admiration for those sharp new flags!  My guess is with an offering that can compete with Bromley (for beginners), they can start drawing peeps from there.  There are only so many northeast skiers to go around.  

I've brought a number of intermediates here who had a blast.  Keeping that marketing balanced, not on fearful steeps is essential.  Let's hope this time they have deep enough pockets to take it to the finish line.

Lift lines?  I would hope so.  Then again, with two lifts cranking, we might overwhelm the slopes.  What a nice problem to have!


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## slatham (Nov 29, 2016)

billski said:


> Beginner terrain has been a real hole in their offering.  For adults and kids.  Hook 'em on Magic while they're new.  It brings a whole other avenue of revenue.  Beginner terrain begets the whole family, more junk food, more rentals, lessons (lessons, imagine that!) and admiration for those sharp new flags!  My guess is with an offering that can compete with Bromley (for beginners), they can start drawing peeps from there.  There are only so many northeast skiers to go around.
> 
> I've brought a number of intermediates here who had a blast.  Keeping that marketing balanced, not on fearful steeps is essential.  Let's hope this time they have deep enough pockets to take it to the finish line.
> 
> Lift lines?  I would hope so.  Then again, with two lifts cranking, we might overwhelm the slopes.  What a nice problem to have!



If most of the trails are open then even with both lifts at capacity the trails would not be close to overwhelmed. That's the beauty - a crowded day on the lifts (the type they need to get into the black) - would still result in minor crowding on the slopes, especially vs. the mega resorts.


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## slatham (Nov 29, 2016)

billski said:


> Beginner terrain has been a real hole in their offering.  For adults and kids.  Hook 'em on Magic while they're new.  It brings a whole other avenue of revenue.  Beginner terrain begets the whole family, more junk food, more rentals, lessons (lessons, imagine that!) and admiration for those sharp new flags!  My guess is with an offering that can compete with Bromley (for beginners), they can start drawing peeps from there.  There are only so many northeast skiers to go around.
> 
> I've brought a number of intermediates here who had a blast.  Keeping that marketing balanced, not on fearful steeps is essential.  Let's hope this time they have deep enough pockets to take it to the finish line.
> 
> Lift lines?  I would hope so.  Then again, with two lifts cranking, we might overwhelm the slopes.  What a nice problem to have!



If most of the trails are open then even with both lifts at capacity the trails would not be close to overwhelmed. That's the beauty - a crowded day on the lifts (the type they need to get into the black) - would still result in minor crowding on the slopes, especially vs. the mega resorts.


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## NYDB (Nov 30, 2016)

camberstick said:


> This has me really excited. Good luck to the new management. I do believe in the viability of a smaller family oriented hill, I personally can't wait to get my kids up there . The soul of magic IS pretty special. Only a handful of these kind of places left on the east.



Yes, a thousand times this.  Can't wait til my 4 year old can handle some blue trails (Maybe next winter? )  and can take her with the family to Magic.  For now it's Stratton for a few more years.


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## slatham (Nov 30, 2016)

NY DirtBag said:


> Yes, a thousand times this.  Can't wait til my 4 year old can handle some blue trails (Maybe next winter? )  and can take her with the family to Magic.  For now it's Stratton for a few more years.



Don't underestimate your 4 year old....or the empty greens of Upper and Lower Magic Carpet, Wand, Kinderspiel, Hocus Pocus, Lower Red line (maybe Carumba?), the woods of Disappearing Act, etc. I mean what respectable 4 year old does't want to tell the kids in the Stratton Village that he/she skied Magic? Instant creed......


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 30, 2016)

slatham said:


> Don't underestimate your 4 year old....or the empty greens of Upper and Lower Magic Carpet, Wand, Kinderspiel, Hocus Pocus, Lower Red line (maybe Carumba?), the woods of Disappearing Act, etc. I mean what respectable 4 year old does't want to tell the kids in the Stratton Village that he/she skied Magic? Instant creed......



This. Plus 4 year olds don't really get hurt if they do take a tumble.


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 1, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> This. Plus 4 year olds don't really get hurt if they do take a tumble.



I've been told I act like a 4 yo.I wish my body would do the same when I fall.


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## NYDB (Dec 1, 2016)

slatham said:


> Don't underestimate your 4 year old....or the empty greens of Upper and Lower Magic Carpet, Wand, Kinderspiel, Hocus Pocus, Lower Red line (maybe Carumba?), the woods of Disappearing Act, etc. I mean what respectable 4 year old does't want to tell the kids in the Stratton Village that he/she skied Magic? Instant creed......



Potential loss of street cred not withstanding.....I'm hoping next year we'll dip a few days with the younger child and then 17-18 winter we'll make the switch full time.  My 8 year old loves Magic already.  Still working on the wife but she's coming around.

I'll be there a couple days at least this year.  bought a few 4 packs


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## Nick (Dec 1, 2016)

I'm excited about this also. I'm gonna reach out to Geoff and see if we can't get an AZ day or similar on the mountain this year.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 1, 2016)

We can do that Nick.  If you'd like me to help, i'm happy to.  Geoff has embraced this sort of thing verbally to me.  I feel he has a zillion things going on right now.  I'll mention it to him & but let's get the place open then we'll figure a date.


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## prsboogie (Dec 1, 2016)

This sounds like a great plan. Maybe something with the Upper Pass?


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 1, 2016)

Nick let's do it!


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## BabyGuinness (Dec 1, 2016)

Lets do a Friday night buffet at the BLT? I can help with that


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## prsboogie (Dec 1, 2016)

Maybe a first tracks tour with RG and DW? This is starting to look like a thing! 


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## Nick (Dec 1, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Maybe a first tracks tour with RG and DW? This is starting to look like a thing! 螺
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Let's freakin' do it!Want a good powder day. My last day at Magic was amazing, one of my best days ever.


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## xwhaler (Dec 1, 2016)

Nick said:


> Let's freakin' do it!Want a good powder day. My last day at Magic was amazing, one of my best days ever.


Yes sir!  Catsup948 and I had a blast that day with you!!!     Coral reef in AM followed by glorious corn harvest after 11!
Beers and burgers in the BLT!

Be fun to connect again at Magic 

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## WoodCore (Dec 1, 2016)

In!


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## slatham (Dec 2, 2016)

Sounds like fun. If you want a tour from RG or DW do recall there is a strict confidentiality agreement! Hope I can make this - like to put faces to all the names I've yet to meet.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 2, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> Maybe a first tracks tour with RG and DW? This is starting to look like a thing!




The odds of this are pretty rare & you slackers will have to get up early for it.  Let's do this though. Buffet works babyguiness.  Happy to reach out to the UPL when we set a date too.  So nice to have mountain support.


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## Smellytele (Dec 2, 2016)

Hope to attend!


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 2, 2016)

Sry, Magic already has a telemarker.


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## prsboogie (Dec 2, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> The odds of this are pretty rare & you slackers will have to get up early for it.  Let's do this though. Buffet works babyguiness.  Happy to reach out to the UPL when we set a date too.  So nice to have mountain support.
> 
> 
> View attachment 21120



Drool worthy pho-show! on the beta! First chairs are easy on pow days! 


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 3, 2016)




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## JoeB-Z (Dec 3, 2016)

Picked up my pass today. I plan on using the Freedom Pass feature at Bolton Valley next Saturday. Had a nice chat with Geoff. So much activity. Bar being moved, carpet torn up, what looks like fire sprinkler work. Trust me, if there is an issue Geoff is on it.


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## jrmagic (Dec 3, 2016)

Would be great to have an AZ event... even if we have to double o triple the number of dirty free heeling hippies

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## Smellytele (Dec 4, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> Sry, Magic already has a telemarker.



If I had feelings I'd be hurt


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## keyser soze (Dec 4, 2016)

Always wanted to hit this place up and rumor has it that my ski club will be going there for a Sunday on one of our bus trips.  Looking forward to it.


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## bigbog (Dec 4, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> View attachment 21120



Wow................


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 5, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> If I had feelings I'd be hurt



well in that case, you'll fit right in.



bigbog said:


> Wow................



Hard to believe I actually skied around that.


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## slatham (Dec 5, 2016)

RustyGroomer said:


> well in that case, you'll fit right in.
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to believe I actually skied around that.



Hard to believe you STOPPED on a powder day to take a picture of DW! We are all happy you did as they are awesome shots - one of them now being an iconic Magic pow shot. That was an awesome day if I have my days right.....

Surprised nobody made note of the people riding Black.....


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## zoomzoom (Dec 5, 2016)

red chair scheduled for inspection?  love that lift!  usual bottom op (dave?) coming back?


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 5, 2016)

Red Chair final fixes coming this week and then inspection. Dave and Red seem inseparable...


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## zoomzoom (Dec 5, 2016)

great news, thx.  dave is a great op, btw.  knows the lift and it's inherent little sounds, super friendly, nice ramp.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 6, 2016)

He sleeps on chair #72 all summer.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 6, 2016)

[FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]Welcome to the NEW, but still RETRO, Magic.[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]​[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]Thanks to all for their support of the purchase of this iconic throwback ski area gem by SKI MAGIC LLC just two weeks ago. [/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]​[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]We  have a big week ahead to determine if we can get open by December 17th,  as we'd like to do. STEP 1: Snowmaking. New snowmaking machines  were installed on the mountain--HKD Impulse 30' towers on all of  Talisman steeps and on strategic locations at Trick/Magic Carpet  intersection and Medium/Magic Carpet intersection! Then  Monday-Thursday we will be installing new and refurbished pump motors in  our main Pump House to give Magic more long-term snowmaking horsepower  while connecting our new Variable Frequency Drives to improve the  efficiency and control of our horsepower/water output. Our lake pump and  new motor/VFD will also be installed this week. So significant capital  investment in upgrading the snowmaking system should be ready for  testing and then production by late week. That will gives about a week  if we get cold temps (looking good right now) to get Magic a way down  from the top. Hopefully mother-nature gives us an assist there with  natural snow as well. [/FONT]​ ​​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]STEP  2: Lifts. Our work-horse Red Chair Lift has been undergoing maintenance  for weeks and had its final line check last week prior to state  inspection. Because of the diligence of our efforts, we found two  assemblies that need to be repaired. Parts were quickly ordered for  manufacture over this weekend and will be air-freighted overnight from  the west coast Monday arriving here Tuesday. Every day counts with  Opening Day on the 17th so no expense is being spared and if all goes  well the Red Chair should be ready if snowmaking and weather cooperate.  Now, the extra work on Red Chair this week, means that Black Chair work  gets pushed back a bit. Still working to have it ready before the end of  December.[/FONT]​ ​​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]We  will continue to keep you posted, but every one at SKI MAGIC is busting  their behinds to get this special ski area open as early as possible  without sacrificing our commitment to safety and doing things right--no  shortcuts!  In addition, much work is being done on the lodge, so you  may see some changes when you get here! [/FONT][FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]To read more about the purchase by our SKI MAGIC group, click "Read More".[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]​[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]Really stoked for Magic! - Geoff[/FONT]​


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## bheemsoth (Dec 6, 2016)

An AZ event @ Magic sounds great. Count me in.


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## Sorcerer (Dec 7, 2016)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]Welcome to the NEW, but still RETRO, Magic.[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]​[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]Thanks to all for their support of the purchase of this iconic throwback ski area gem by SKI MAGIC LLC just two weeks ago. [/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]​[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]We  have a big week ahead to determine if we can get open by December 17th,  as we'd like to do. STEP 1: Snowmaking. New snowmaking machines  were installed on the mountain--HKD Impulse 30' towers on all of  Talisman steeps and on strategic locations at Trick/Magic Carpet  intersection and Medium/Magic Carpet intersection! Then  Monday-Thursday we will be installing new and refurbished pump motors in  our main Pump House to give Magic more long-term snowmaking horsepower  while connecting our new Variable Frequency Drives to improve the  efficiency and control of our horsepower/water output. Our lake pump and  new motor/VFD will also be installed this week. So significant capital  investment in upgrading the snowmaking system should be ready for  testing and then production by late week. That will gives about a week  if we get cold temps (looking good right now) to get Magic a way down  from the top. Hopefully mother-nature gives us an assist there with  natural snow as well. [/FONT]​ ​​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]STEP  2: Lifts. Our work-horse Red Chair Lift has been undergoing maintenance  for weeks and had its final line check last week prior to state  inspection. Because of the diligence of our efforts, we found two  assemblies that need to be repaired. Parts were quickly ordered for  manufacture over this weekend and will be air-freighted overnight from  the west coast Monday arriving here Tuesday. Every day counts with  Opening Day on the 17th so no expense is being spared and if all goes  well the Red Chair should be ready if snowmaking and weather cooperate.  Now, the extra work on Red Chair this week, means that Black Chair work  gets pushed back a bit. Still working to have it ready before the end of  December.[/FONT]​ ​​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]We  will continue to keep you posted, but every one at SKI MAGIC is busting  their behinds to get this special ski area open as early as possible  without sacrificing our commitment to safety and doing things right--no  shortcuts!  In addition, much work is being done on the lodge, so you  may see some changes when you get here! [/FONT][FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]To read more about the purchase by our SKI MAGIC group, click "Read More".[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]​[/FONT]​ [FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]Really stoked for Magic! - Geoff[/FONT]​



Can't believe all of the work that has been done on the lodge and the mountain - GREAT JOB


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## mriceyman (Dec 7, 2016)

So jacked up to visit this year


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## billski (Dec 8, 2016)

Hey Geoff,
Not that you have nothing else to do, but it would really be awesome if you could take a few short videos of work in action.   Mike Bouchard at Tenny has been doing that as he rebuilds the infrastructure.
Check out these videos:
https://www.facebook.com/skiTENNEY/videos/562187513979698/

https://www.facebook.com/skiTENNEY/videos/559684540896662/

https://www.facebook.com/skiTENNEY/videos/547668965431553/

https://www.facebook.com/skiTENNEY/videos/547695162095600/


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## slatham (Dec 8, 2016)

billski said:


> Hey Geoff,
> Not that you have nothing else to do, but it would really be awesome if you could take a few short videos of work in action.   Mike Bouchard at Tenny has been doing that as he rebuilds the infrastructure.
> Check out these videos:
> https://www.facebook.com/skiTENNEY/videos/562187513979698/
> ...




Bill, Geoff and team have been putting out a lot of eye candy and info via magic.com, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Based on the "to do list", unexpected issues, and tight time frame, I think they're doing a great job.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 8, 2016)

While I think it's a bit unreasonable to ask anything of these guys right now check the VIDEO of the Red Chair running today.  Fixing the last of the tower assembly's.  There you go Bill.  FB page.


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## slatham (Dec 8, 2016)

Need that red beauty inspected!


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## skifree (Dec 8, 2016)

sure hope charmin ultra soft is in the restrooms


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 8, 2016)

skifree said:


> sure hope charmin ultra soft is in the restrooms



This is important to respond to. 1) After lift repairs and snowmaking there is zero money left for TP, much less Charmin. 2) While Magic normally has some toilet paper (every other stall, but only a few sheets left in each), Magic will never do soft, much less ultra soft. Definitely closer to cardboard 3) Billski, we all do things differently. Videos on every infrastructure improvement is not our thing. We suck at videos quite frankly. 4) however, we might just do a video if we get a shipment of TP in though!


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## jrmagic (Dec 8, 2016)

LMAO thats great! I say just out a container of dried leaves in the mens room and they can fend fir themselves!

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## prsboogie (Dec 8, 2016)

With the up coming weather pattern any chance of a early opening "pow day"? 


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 8, 2016)

I make damn well sure to empty my bowels in advance of arriving at Magic Mountain :lol:


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## BabyGuinness (Dec 9, 2016)

I will assure you there will be no ultra soft TP in the bathrooms...that doesn't mean the bathrooms wont be clean! If it becomes an issue of cleanliness, let DW or myself know and we'll have it rectified! Nobody needs to think we have an outhouse mentality here! lol
We have an amazing work in progress here...with a little patience as we get open I assure you all, we'll have one of the best products seen at magic (all facets) in years! It'll be nice to celebrate the mountain and what it is becoming and not degrade it for all of its shortcomings! This is all from me, a late starter of the magic family...though i cant help myself on a daily basis think of how privileged i am to work alongside such a great group of individuals!


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 9, 2016)

prsboogie said:


> With the up coming weather pattern any chance of a early opening "pow day"?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



At this point I'd say very little chance of opening earlier than 12/17 (quite frankly 12/17 will need a lot of pieces to come
together.) Red Chair needs its final state inspection next week. Snowmaking is not expected to begin until later this weekend when we hope to get the pump houses back online with all its new/refurbished motors and VFDs.

Did you know that Magic will be the 1st VT ski area to be 100% VFD for all of its pumps from lake to mountain? So says Efficiency Vermont! Now that's setting us up for a sustainable future--not whether we will have Charmin ;-).

So all of us at Magic are focused on doing whatever we can to make 12/17 in some form--whether it's the tube park and beginner lift plus the new Black Line Tavern or we have a snowmaking trail down from the top or hopefully mother-nature drops a bunch of snow and maybe we have a few more options as we put man-made snow on the hill as quickly as possible. 

We provide a series of updates on the homepage which are posted frequently to keep folks informed as well as everything we've done on fb Instagram twitter. We will see the AZ folks at Magic very soon! And be sure to stop in to say hi when you do! 

Be assured Magic is not a short term project and we are putting the resources against the product needs as quickly and safely as possible to set the ski area up for long term success.







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## slatham (Dec 9, 2016)

Thanks for all the updates and hard work JM and team.

Happily opening terrain on natural is NOT out of the question from what I see on the models. Yes it means things fall our way especially with the storm(s) later next week (which the models do not have a handle on at all) but there is a scenario where all is good. It would be nice if Ullr delivered for the faithful......


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 9, 2016)

This season has already exceeded the last several & I haven't made a single turn.  See you all in a bit.


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## jrmagic (Dec 9, 2016)

BabyGuinness said:


> I will assure you there will be no ultra soft TP in the bathrooms...that doesn't mean the bathrooms wont be clean! If it becomes an issue of cleanliness, let DW or myself know and we'll have it rectified! Nobody needs to think we have an outhouse mentality here! lol
> We have an amazing work in progress here...with a little patience as we get open I assure you all, we'll have one of the best products seen at magic (all facets) in years! It'll be nice to celebrate the mountain and what it is becoming and not degrade it for all of its shortcomings! This is all from me, a late starter of the magic family...though i cant help myself on a daily basis think of how privileged i am to work alongside such a great group of individuals!


I meant for soft wiping material. Wasn't trying to imply it being unclean in any way. As a late comer to the family you guys have done a hell of a lot of good here and Im glad youre in it for the long haul[emoji106] 

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## prsboogie (Dec 9, 2016)

JamaicaMan said:


> At this point I'd say very little chance of opening earlier than 12/17 (quite frankly 12/17 will need a lot of pieces to come
> together.) Red Chair needs its final state inspection next week. Snowmaking is not expected to begin until later this weekend when we hope to get the pump houses back online with all its new/refurbished motors and VFDs.
> 
> Did you know that Magic will be the 1st VT ski area to be 100% VFD for all of its pumps from lake to mountain? So says Efficiency Vermont! Now that's setting us up for a sustainable future--not whether we will have Charmin ;-).
> ...



Thanks so much for keeping us informed. I cannot wait to get up there with the kids and enjoying all your blood sweat and tears! 


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## skifree (Dec 10, 2016)




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## Tin (Dec 10, 2016)

As an individual living with Crohn's disease, if I have to use anything but baby wipes or super-triple-ultra ply with lotion I will be suing under the American's with Disabilities Act.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 12, 2016)

All shittin' aside, the place looks so awesome.  It got a serious cleaning ready for customers.  The days of sitting around hoping are over.  These guys are making things happen.


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 12, 2016)

The odds of top-to-bottom skiing are not realistic for this weekend. The storm gave us 5-6" on top of a 2-3" prior base. There is some decent skinning going on but we need some snowmaking and, or another storm.

The pump houses with all the new equipment are still being assembled. So freaking close right now. Gotta say our crew (led by Do Work) is putting in a ton of effort but a key supplier (and various "overnight" delivery services) have made a few days slip from our grasp. It happens. Growing pains. But it will get there now by Wednesday night. Then we go like mad.

I'm thinking 12/22 (throwback Thursday) for top to bottom opening realistically. If a miracle happens...well, no matter what we will be launching the new Black Line Tavern this weekend and Goofy Foot is playing Saturday night.  It's going to be a fun night. 


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## prsboogie (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks for the update. Hope shit comes together for you and the crew and we will see you in January, maybe Xmas vacation week!


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## slatham (Dec 19, 2016)

Quick trip to Magic for a bite and a beer on Saturday evening. Lodge looks awesome and the new bar configuration makes so much sense. My daughter and I had a window seat table (new windows too by the looks of them) looking out over the tubing hill, which was in action. Friendly staff, great beer selection, and ribs that were off-the-hook. Quick catch-up with JM, DW and Craig (who runs the bar/restaurant) as they did the rounds. Good crowd and I am sure more came later when Goody Foot played (we had to leave). Great start even if no skiing. 

Of course the highlight was seeing the very first shot ski of the "New Magic", with JM, DW and Craig doing the honors. 

DW reports Red inspected and snowmaking system running as expected and way above anything we've seen in the past. If they had another 24 hours or so they probably could have opened as they had a good amount of natural on the mountain. The issue is the infamous work road which needs a solid snowmaking base to cover. Given the temps this week they should be in good shape for TBT, at least for a TTB snowmaking run. 

THINK SNOW!


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## Tin (Dec 19, 2016)

Looking forward to some opening day turns to celebrate the end of the semester and to pick up my pass. Trick -> Showoff?


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## jrmagic (Dec 19, 2016)

Tin said:


> Looking forward to some opening day turns to celebrate the end of the semester and to pick up my pass. Trick -> Showoff?


Yes that will be first. I heard the compressors running again when I left last night so they are working it! 

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## KD7000 (Dec 19, 2016)

Hoping very much to hit Magic this season.  I've only been once before, a few years ago; that day was icy and not really too much fun.  Glad to hear about all the work going on and I can't wait for a fresh snow day.


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 29, 2016)

The little one picked up a pass today. Printer worked, bar was awesome. We even made a few turns. 


Can't wait for the hill to get going. 


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## Smellytele (Dec 30, 2016)

bummer they haven't been able to open yet. Was looking to go there next week. Their last report states "[FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]  The storm has left about 8-10" of new snow. Given zero base on most  trails at the top prior to the storm, this is a very thin amount of snow  to work with. Our ops team was out last night assessing and grooming  until the wee hours. Currently White Out, Upper Carpet, Up Your Sleeve,  Lower Carpet have been groomed for a possible top-to-bottom runs off Red  Chair. Our team (mtn ops, ski patrol, management) will now ski it this  morning to accurately assess and report on conditions to make the final  call on opening today. Trick was ruled not skiable last night. If all is  good, we will have a late morning to noon time opening. Betwixt,  Enchanted Forest, and possibly Medium may also open as possible East  Side routes as we ski them. If we do open, it will most likely be for  season pass holders and advanced and expert skiers only given the "thin"  conditions and the type of all-natural snow terrain. Tickets will be  discounted with the later opening."[/FONT]


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 30, 2016)

Skied today. I actually skinned up Bromley only to learn they had groomed every trail. Luckily a few trees were in the way on some trails and I got a powder run. 

Returned to Magic and had two great pow runs, it was awesome. 


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## Tin (Dec 30, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Skied today. I actually skinned up Bromley only to learn they had groomed every trail. Luckily a few trees were in the way on some trails and I got a powder run.
> 
> Returned to Magic and had two great pow runs, it was awesome.
> 
> ...



Nice to meet you on that last one!


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 30, 2016)

Tin said:


> Nice to meet you on that last one!



Great to meet you as well. Looking forward to making more turns together. 


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## Tin (Dec 30, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> bummer they haven't been able to open yet. Was looking to go there next week. Their last report states "[FONT=avenir-lt-w01_35-light1475496]  The storm has left about 8-10" of new snow. Given zero base on most  trails at the top prior to the storm, this is a very thin amount of snow  to work with. Our ops team was out last night assessing and grooming  until the wee hours. Currently White Out, Upper Carpet, Up Your Sleeve,  Lower Carpet have been groomed for a possible top-to-bottom runs off Red  Chair. Our team (mtn ops, ski patrol, management) will now ski it this  morning to accurately assess and report on conditions to make the final  call on opening today. Trick was ruled not skiable last night. If all is  good, we will have a late morning to noon time opening. Betwixt,  Enchanted Forest, and possibly Medium may also open as possible East  Side routes as we ski them. If we do open, it will most likely be for  season pass holders and advanced and expert skiers only given the "thin"  conditions and the type of all-natural snow terrain. Tickets will be  discounted with the later opening."[/FONT]



Had some great powder runs today. Hats off to the new team for putting everything together and spinning today!


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## Savemeasammy (Dec 31, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> I actually skinned up Bromley only to learn they had groomed every trail.
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



.........ugh


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## slatham (Dec 31, 2016)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Skied today. I actually skinned up Bromley only to learn they had groomed every trail. Luckily a few trees were in the way on some trails and I got a powder run.
> 
> Returned to Magic and had two great pow runs, it was awesome.
> 
> ...



I did as well but expected most to be groomed. Was able to get Upper Boulevard into Everglades and Glade with 8-10 mostly untouched (trails were closed the day before but poached a little). Then got on lift to hit a few others. But by far late on Thursday was better for finding/poaching powder than Friday am.

Hoping tonight's storm gives us a decent accumulation and I can finally get to Magic.


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## slatham (Jan 2, 2017)

Finally got to Magic for a few runs on New Years Day, including a couple with JM. Wow they were so close to having some solid skiing over the holidays. The late sale - the last affect of the previous knucklehead regime - hurt for sure. But even with all that they offered some good, challenging, old school variable skiing with the most honest snow report around. Show Off was simply prestine, deep base and edge to edge carvable groomed skiing. If they had a couple more days the upper mountain would have been the same. As it was they did a good job connecting Upper Carpet to Medium and Up Your Sleeve, both of which had leftover powder shots plus the overnight 1-2" blown in (lower UYS was actually really sweet by any standard). Lower Carpet was groomed natural, thin but very skiable. Vertigo had shots to skiers left. Kinderspiel was also very nice and skied like a typical mid winter day. 

Trick was trickier, as the snow that was made was variable up top, though still skiable and skill enhancing. Lower Trick had been groomed and skied very well if thin in spots. The section of Wand connecting to Show Off was in mid season form.

Per Dave, Red is "purring like a kitten" and certainly felt smooth to me. Apparently Black is close to being load tested, and the beginner handle tow was back running with several customers.

As for snowmaking, there were new HKD's everywhere- land guns and portable towers scattered about, with tower guns on Trick, Magic Carpet and Medium (and off in the distance on Tali). A couple of Ratniks too for good measure. According to JM they just got a 3rd leased compressor, so I would expect some serious snowmaking later this week when true arctic air returns.

Overall, the 'statistics' of skier visits and open terrain etc vastly underestimate the amount of progress. And I haven't even mentioned BLT....

If there's a picture here it's Up Your Sleeve.....


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 2, 2017)

Bromley's grooming combined with their snowmaking power (and the fact that they use it) makes for a nice option on days when there hasn't been natural snow for a while. Sometimes skis a bit softer than other areas due to the sun as well.


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## prsboogie (Jan 2, 2017)

slatham said:


> Finally got to Magic for a few runs on New Years Day, including a couple with JM. Wow they were so close to having some solid skiing over the holidays. The late sale - the last affect of the previous knucklehead regime - hurt for sure. But even with all that they offered some good, challenging, old school variable skiing with the most honest snow report around. Show Off was simply prestine, deep base and edge to edge carvable groomed skiing. If they had a couple more days the upper mountain would have been the same. As it was they did a good job connecting Upper Carpet to Medium and Up Your Sleeve, both of which had leftover powder shots plus the overnight 1-2" blown in (lower UYS was actually really sweet by any standard). Lower Carpet was groomed natural, thin but very skiable. Vertigo had shots to skiers left. Kinderspiel was also very nice and skied like a typical mid winter day.
> 
> Trick was trickier, as the snow that was made was variable up top, though still skiable and skill enhancing. Lower Trick had been groomed and skied very well if thin in spots. The section of Wand connecting to Show Off was in mid season form.
> 
> ...



UYS looks great and I can't wait to get up there in February! Would love earlier but we have a couple weekends planned and then our week in Bartlett end of January. 


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 2, 2017)

slatham said:


> Finally got to Magic for a few runs on New Years Day, including a couple with JM. Wow they were so close to having some solid skiing over the holidays. The late sale - the last affect of the previous knucklehead regime - hurt for sure. But even with all that they offered some good, challenging, old school variable skiing with the most honest snow report around. Show Off was simply prestine, deep base and edge to edge carvable groomed skiing. If they had a couple more days the upper mountain would have been the same. As it was they did a good job connecting Upper Carpet to Medium and Up Your Sleeve, both of which had leftover powder shots plus the overnight 1-2" blown in (lower UYS was actually really sweet by any standard). Lower Carpet was groomed natural, thin but very skiable. Vertigo had shots to skiers left. Kinderspiel was also very nice and skied like a typical mid winter day.
> 
> Trick was trickier, as the snow that was made was variable up top, though still skiable and skill enhancing. Lower Trick had been groomed and skied very well if thin in spots. The section of Wand connecting to Show Off was in mid season form.
> 
> ...



Wow the 2 inch refresh went a long way.


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## keyser soze (Jan 2, 2017)

I'll be going there with my ski club in a couple of weeks.  Very muck looking forward to it.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 2, 2017)

Great reports from the last few posters. Using my Freedom Pass due to my Magic season pass I went to Dartmouth on Saturday. Wonderful on a natural snow base that was too low for the inversion plus new natural. I caught a snow snake in the last three turns of a tree run on the Holt's Ledge side and dislocated my damn right shoulder. First injury in 30 years. So if you see a grizzled old guy with lop sided pole plants next weekend at Magic, that's me.


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## Tin (Jan 3, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Wow the 2 inch refresh went a long way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Saw your TGR post. Bummer. Hoping for a quick recovery!


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## jrmagic (Jan 3, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Wow the 2 inch refresh went a long way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Skiers right on the lower section of UYS was very very nice and basically untouched other than me on Sunday.

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## JamaicaMan (Jan 3, 2017)

Speedy recoveries to MSB and Joe. Let's make 2017 a healthy ski season for every one. But, the BLT is not a bad place to heal...


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 4, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Speedy recoveries to MSB and Joe. Let's make 2017 a healthy ski season for every one. But, the BLT is not a bad place to heal...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Just returned from the hand specialist, broke the 2nd and 3rd metacarpal in-line. Looks like there will be no need for surgery. Big props to Magic ski patrol who made me a splint asap and prevented any further damage! 

If all goes well I should be back on the hill in six weeks. In the meantime, I'll be at the BLT. 



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## deadheadskier (Jan 4, 2017)

Damn. Glad it's only six weeks. Hopefully you get lucky with a faster recovery

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## Tin (Jan 4, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Just returned from the hand specialist, broke the 2nd and 3rd metacarpal in-line. Looks like there will be no need for surgery. Big props to Magic ski patrol who made me a splint asap and prevented any further damage!
> 
> If all goes well I should be back on the hill in six weeks. In the meantime, I'll be at the BLT.
> 
> ...



That is good news! Hand surgeries are hell.

Side note, talk about dodging a bullet. Instead of 1"+ of rain and starting from scratch, 2-4" of sloppy cement last night and the quick dropping temps make one hell of a needed base.


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## slatham (Jan 4, 2017)

Tin said:


> That is good news! Hand surgeries are hell.
> 
> Side note, talk about dodging a bullet. Instead of 1"+ of rain and starting from scratch, 2-4" of sloppy cement last night and the quick dropping temps make one hell of a needed base. "
> 
> ...


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 4, 2017)

Tin said:


> That is good news! Hand surgeries are hell.
> 
> Side note, talk about dodging a bullet. Instead of 1"+ of rain and starting from scratch, 2-4" of sloppy cement last night and the quick dropping temps make one hell of a needed base.



I know, I broke it just above my old hardware from a 2011 surgery. Glad the weather is coming around! 


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## jrmagic (Jan 4, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Just returned from the hand specialist, broke the 2nd and 3rd metacarpal in-line. Looks like there will be no need for surgery. Big props to Magic ski patrol who made me a splint asap and prevented any further damage!
> 
> If all goes well I should be back on the hill in six weeks. In the meantime, I'll be at the BLT.
> 
> ...


Glad you don't need surgery. Big props for planning on coming to BLT anyway as that temptation to get out there will be killer. 

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## jrmagic (Jan 4, 2017)

Tin said:


> That is good news! Hand surgeries are hell.
> 
> Side note, talk about dodging a bullet. Instead of 1"+ of rain and starting from scratch, 2-4" of sloppy cement last night and the quick dropping temps make one hell of a needed base.


It was a blessing! That cement should do a nice job of locking the work road rocks in place.

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## Sorcerer (Jan 9, 2017)

Anything new on the Black Chair?


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## ShadyGrove (Jan 9, 2017)

Sorcerer said:


> Anything new on the Black Chair?



My understanding is that the load test went well.  It was running full speed (not loading) on Sunday.  Fingers crossed it's up and operational in the very near future.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 13, 2017)

ShadyGrove said:


> My understanding is that the load test went well.  It was running full speed (not loading) on Sunday.  Fingers crossed it's up and operational in the very near future.



From the website..."As many people noticed this past weekend, we did perform some load-testing on the Black Chair. While all of the considerable planned repairs to the grips and bullwheels are all working well, new and different issues have arisen from the load-testing that need attention which our chairlift contractors and employees are now working on. Safety and reliability are the watch words for us bringing back this chair to operation. We are working it hard and in detail--hopefully we will be bringing Black back within the next couple of weeks."

Hopefully Mother Nature will get on board. I'd love to see the hill start to get some big snow just as the Black Chair comes on line. 


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## slatham (Jan 13, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> From the website..."As many people noticed this past weekend, we did perform some load-testing on the Black Chair. While all of the considerable planned repairs to the grips and bullwheels are all working well, new and different issues have arisen from the load-testing that need attention which our chairlift contractors and employees are now working on. Safety and reliability are the watch words for us bringing back this chair to operation. We are working it hard and in detail--hopefully we will be bringing Black back within the next couple of weeks."
> 
> Hopefully Mother Nature will get on board. I'd love to see the hill start to get some big snow just as the Black Chair comes on line.
> 
> ...



That's exactly what Geoff and crew need - a major pattern change with a couple of dumps right along with the Black Chair being certified and then an awesome Presidents week to make everyone forget about the January thaw........


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 13, 2017)

slatham said:


> That's exactly what Geoff and crew need - a major pattern change with a couple of dumps right along with the Black Chair being certified and then an awesome Presidents week to make everyone forget about the January thaw........



Yes like the 13/14 season. That started terribly but from president's day weekend onward was great. 


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## slatham (Jan 13, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Yes like the 13/14 season. That started terribly but from president's day weekend onward was great.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Many winters of late. The heart of winter could coincide nicely with your return to the slopes!


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 26, 2017)

Anyone thinking of a visit this weekend?  I'll be skiing starting tomorrow afternoon.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 26, 2017)

Me


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 26, 2017)

I'm drumming up business here!  I know you'll be there.  Anyone else?


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## xwhaler (Jan 26, 2017)

Magic was incredible today.  Some really adventurous skiing but great coverage all over the mtn.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











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## xwhaler (Jan 26, 2017)

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## xwhaler (Jan 26, 2017)

Groomers were amazing before lunch, natural incredible after lunch

Awesome wings and PBR.   Always special at Magic









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## bdfreetuna (Jan 29, 2017)

Hope Magic gets back on board with the Mountain Sports Club for next year. I try to ski on BOGOs or cheap passes all the time. I don't scrape down the trails and I buy lunch and a couple beers so it's worth your while 

(I realize there is Thursday deals and random deals so it's far from difficult to ski Magic on a budget)


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## machski (Jan 30, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> Hope Magic gets back on board with the Mountain Sports Club for next year. I try to ski on BOGOs or cheap passes all the time. I don't scrape down the trails and I buy lunch and a couple beers so it's worth your while
> 
> (I realize there is Thursday deals and random deals so it's far from difficult to ski Magic on a budget)


They are on Liftopia you know.  You can buy for Friday now for just $34.  Considering they are trying to get re-established, that is not a bad price.


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## mriceyman (Jan 30, 2017)

How are the woods playing.. also havent checked in here in awhile but has the black chair had any progress


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## xwhaler (Jan 30, 2017)

Woods were skiing nice on Thursday last week but all locked up on Friday which was to be expected given the thaw, freeze cycle.
The base is quite good all across the mtn and 6" (or even less) would open up a lot and make Magic ski very nicely. 
Looks like 2-4" could be the play for tomorrow/Wed.

Black was running during testing on both days I was there last week. Rumor I heard is they are trying to get it running for Feb vaca week.


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## slatham (Jan 30, 2017)

Base is solid but some snow is necessary for ungroomed terrain. Some trails/woods don't need much and if the clipper delivers 2-4" that will help. But some of the steeper terrain will need more. Ironically, the terrain that was skied MORE needs less natural as the solid base was loosened up via skiing (Twilight and Goniff). Terrain that was not skied has a solid and very slick surface that needs something of more substance - either via more depth or heavier snow.

Note that they have groomed all beginner and intermediate terrain on East Side (plus Wizard) which all skied great. A couple of inches and its in primo condition. Also, they plan to make snow on Talisman this week so that will have a good skiable (maybe groomed?) surface this weekend.

Of course everyone could benefit from a good old dump!


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 1, 2017)

I heard that the black chair may need more work. However, this is driven by the desire to do it right and not just get it spinning one weekend. Personally, I would rather not have it spin all year if it meant it was consistently running in the future. 

With what I've seen with snowmaking, bar upgrades, rental equipment etc. the new ownership is playing the long game, which after five years of sticks and duct tape is 100% cool with me. 

Despite my handle, I am not affiliated with the hill. But if you haven't come and checked out the progress please do. There is still more work to do, but hopefully you will see the path they are on and be encouraged. 


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 2, 2017)

Well said.  FYI, I heard the skiing is fantastic today.  Every week has improved & it's wonderful to see.  I can't ski tomorrow but will be out Saturday am.


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## slatham (Feb 2, 2017)

Magicsnowboarder that is spot on. I had the opportunity to spend a couple of minutes with JM and one of the lift mechanics (Tom?) last week and their goal is to fix everything the proper way and thus have a solid and documented "baseline" from which to work off going forward. This should make inspections and fixes in subsequent years that much easier because you know what was done, why and by whom. That is why it is taking so long. I hope they can get Black running for Presidents week (as they do!). I know some people will not venture over without two lifts running (I rode with one such person last weekend at Bromley) and Magic needs to capture this clientele. 

RG, skiing this weekend should be sweet! Wish I could get up there but the odds are not in my favor......


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## Jully (Feb 2, 2017)

Why exactly won't someone venture over there without two working lifts? Are they afraid of crowds?


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## Smellytele (Feb 2, 2017)

Jully said:


> Why exactly won't someone venture over there without two working lifts? Are they afraid of crowds?



Afraid of the other one breaking down and having none. Been there, done that.


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## slatham (Feb 2, 2017)

Jully said:


> Why exactly won't someone venture over there without two working lifts? Are they afraid of crowds?



In one case they had experienced long lines over a holiday weekend when a race was also held. In another case it was an issue with the one lift running (Which didn't run for hours) several years ago. So crowds and redundancy. 

I also ran into someone recently who said Red was too slow and they need a high speed quad. He's not part of the target market! The other two are.


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## dmw (Feb 2, 2017)

I may hit Magic Saturday with other first time Magic visitors, may need to sell them on the idea - what do you think of lift lines this weekend, I think I may have seen some mention of a race? 

Also considering Bromley and then Stratton Sunday - never been to any of them so pretty stoked.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 2, 2017)

dmw said:


> I may hit Magic Saturday with other first time Magic visitors, may need to sell them on the idea - what do you think of lift lines this weekend, I think I may have seen some mention of a race?
> 
> Also considering Bromley and then Stratton Sunday - never been to any of them so pretty stoked.



Magic has races most weekends. Other than closing of Showoff, they don't impact too much. Lift lines so far this year have been minimal. Stratton, on weekends, has really big crowds. Go early before it gets skied off.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 2, 2017)

slatham said:


> In one case they had experienced long lines over a holiday weekend when a race was also held. In another case it was an issue with the one lift running (Which didn't run for hours) several years ago. So crowds and redundancy.
> 
> I also ran into someone recently who said Red was too slow and they need a high speed quad. He's not part of the target market! The other two are.



The Red Lift takes 12 to 13 minutes to go a mile and there's seldom much of a line (even with one chair running). A high speed quad takes 6 or 7 minutes and is usually a bit less than a mile long and you usually spend more than that in line so...


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## benski (Feb 2, 2017)

Considering going to Magic for the first time Saturday. Any advice. Also considering going to Gore.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2017)

DMW, benski.  Come find me.  I am an official on-mountain ambassador this year.


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## Smellytele (Feb 3, 2017)

RustyGroomer said:


> DMW, benski.  Come find me.  I am an official on-mountain ambassador this year.



With a Magic jacket and everything?

On a side note: I was skiing at Pats Peak before Christmas and this guy with a Magic instructor's jacket on was about to get on the lift and dropped his pole. He tried to pick it up in a panicked kind of way like someone in a horror movie trying to get their keys in the ignition before the rabid dog gets them. Anyway the chair came up and took him out. I think he then said "I am a trained professional, don't try this at home."


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2017)

Sadly no Magic jacket.  I got an armband I have yet to pick up.  Seriously, you guys want to ski?  This is why they "hired" me.  I'm the on-mountain ambassador.  

Lines shouldn't be an issue. At least they have not been all year.


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## dmw (Feb 3, 2017)

RustyGroomer said:


> DMW, benski.  Come find me.  I am an official on-mountain ambassador this year.



Cool, I'll send a PM tonight if my friends are on board when we meet tonight.




Sorcerer said:


> Stratton, on weekends, has really big crowds. Go early before it gets skied off.



We hold these truths to be self evident, that's the plan - Thanks!


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 3, 2017)

I'll be there for the Freeride event tomorrow with 2 kids.  Looking forward to it!


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## Tin (Feb 3, 2017)

RustyGroomer said:


> Sadly no Magic jacket.  I got an armband I have yet to pick up.  Seriously, you guys want to ski?  This is why they "hired" me.  I'm the on-mountain ambassador.
> 
> Lines shouldn't be an issue. At least they have not been all year.




Around Sunday?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 3, 2017)

Sorcerer said:


> The Red Lift takes 12 to 13 minutes to go a mile and there's seldom much of a line (even with one chair running). A high speed quad takes 6 or 7 minutes and is usually a bit less than a mile long and you usually spend more than that in line so...


Generally speaking yes, but not always. I've certainly spent 20+ minutes waiting in line for Madonna at Smuggs and 30+ for Sterling. 

I know it will never happen, but I wonder what Magic would be like with a HSQ?  Would it become like other Southern VT areas with massive lines or would it be like Wildcat and hardly ever have a line longer than a few minutes.  This past Sunday at Wildcat was intolerable. From 10-Noon the singles line got to be a 4-5 minute wait. It was a real struggle.[emoji38]

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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2017)

Forgot about the jr' Freeriders.  That will be fun to see.  Witch is ready for them.  Send a PM but I suck @ phone stuff in VT.  If for some reason I do not reply, I will be there.  Ask a bartender for Greg, NOT Rusty .  Upstairs round table.  Always upstairs.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2017)

Tin, yes Sunday probably 1/2 day in the am.  See you then.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2017)

Triple post can't edit.

Ask Dave (lifty) to point me out too.  He's so good he'll let you know what #chair I'm on if in front of you.


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 3, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> Generally speaking yes, but not always. I've certainly spent 20+ minutes waiting in line for Madonna at Smuggs and 30+ for Sterling.
> 
> I know it will never happen, but I wonder what Magic would be like with a HSQ?  Would it become like other Southern VT areas with massive lines or would it be like Wildcat and hardly ever have a line longer than a few minutes.  This past Sunday at Wildcat was intolerable. From 10-Noon the singles line got to be a 4-5 minute wait. It was a real struggle.[emoji38]
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app



It will never happen. My guess is the hill will limit lift ticket sales before investing in a HSQ. 


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 3, 2017)

Anyone worried about crowds,....take a look @ the webcam today.  Also note current fire power on Talisman.  They are lighting it up now.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 3, 2017)

Anyone want a set of Burt binding plates in celebration of Retro Day? I'll have them in the car tomorrow. PM or look for the fellow with bright orange, non-retro, pants. Or if skiing, no pole plants on the right. Surgery on the 20th so my sort of ski season is winding down. Really looking forward to Talisman. A favorite.

Joe


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## jrmagic (Feb 4, 2017)

I hope you first timers decided to come.  Magic was skiing very very nicely today on both the east and west side. 

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## slatham (Feb 4, 2017)

So bummed I missed the most impressive display of snowmaking that Magic has ever seen! Someone post some more eye candy for those who couldn't make it!


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## jrmagic (Feb 4, 2017)

slatham said:


> So bummed I missed the most impressive display of snowmaking that Magic has ever seen! Someone post some more eye candy for those who couldn't make it!


Sorry. I was  having too much fun skiing the whales to take pictures of it but great fun was had by all. 

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## JoeB-Z (Feb 4, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> Sorry. I was  having too much fun skiing the whales to take pictures of it but great fun was had by all.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app



The snow from the HKD guns on Talisman had a different quality also. Very much like medium density Eastern natural. Yes it was really cold and that helps but this wasnot the man made I am mostly familiar with. It was a blizzard too. So many great runs today. The East side was really well groomed. I showed up at noon and everything skied well. Wizard had been improved everywhere except the last pitch. Sorcerer was fun. I guess Sorcerer was natural that had been groomed. Edgeable everywhere. Just not a bad run today. I had the chance to thank Matt Cote at the top of the upper Wizard chute.


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## Keelhauled (Feb 4, 2017)

I'll be there tomorrow. Been a couple years since I was last at Magic, hopefully it's as good as I remember.


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## sugarbushskier (Feb 5, 2017)

Skied Magic this past Friday for the first time in 20+ years.  I was thoroughly impressed with the terrain and snow quality! 13 runs in 4.5 hours on both east and west side.  Talisman wasn't yet open due to ongoing snowmaking, but they were pounding it.  Great mountain with lots of varied terrain for all skiers.  Can't wait to get back.


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## Newpylong (Feb 5, 2017)

Impressive show on Talisman. They done or you think Sorcerer is next? Witch to Black? Lower Magic Carpet or Lower Wizard?


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 5, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> Impressive show on Talisman. They done or you think Sorcerer is next? Witch to Black? Lower Magic Carpet or Lower Wizard?



Not done yet. Sorcerer next!


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## Newpylong (Feb 5, 2017)

Been a hot minute since snow has been made on that one. So happy for you guys.


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## NYDB (Feb 5, 2017)

Can't wait to get over there.  Maybe 2/13 powder day?  If not preznit week

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## Do Work (Feb 8, 2017)

Really stoked to see so many happy faces this past weekend and read so many positive words.  We were really excited to blow big on Tali but were even more excited to give everyone something fun to rip like that.  With no real pow yet this year, Tali's whales really gave a fun & challenging option.  Can't wait to fire up again!


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## billski (Feb 8, 2017)

If the forecasted 4-6" arrives on Thursday, the mountain should clean up nicely for the weekend, after the flame and rain fest yesterday/today.


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## slatham (Feb 8, 2017)

billski said:


> If the forecasted 4
> 
> They got mostly frozen for a 5" serious base building net gainer. While it might have gotten a little wet today but it didn't rain much and will groom out perfectly. Put 4-6" (more?) on top and the whole mountain will be accessible.


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## rocks860 (Feb 8, 2017)

We'll be up there the first weekend in march. Haven't been in a couple years and can't wait to get back there again. My first day skiing magic was the most epic powder day I've ever had. February probably 4 or 5 years ago after a 2 foot storm


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## jrmagic (Feb 17, 2017)

Word is that the black lift was certified and will be spinning tomorrow!!

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## chuckstah (Feb 17, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> Word is that the black lift was certified and will be spinning tomorrow!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app


Great news. I'll be there for sure now. 

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## benski (Feb 17, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> Word is that the black lift was certified and will be spinning tomorrow!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app



There snow report says is going to opperate as a double. I guess its a weight thing. If so then they should remove some chairs to cut the weight asap.


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## Nick (Feb 17, 2017)

Keep your eyes peeled guys. I'm putting something together for March for us  confirming it now ...


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## gmcunni (Feb 17, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> Word is that the black lift was certified and will be spinning tomorrow!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app



got an email saying State of VT certified the list and it will spin tomorrow.


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## Sorcerer (Feb 17, 2017)

benski said:


> There snow report says is going to opperate as a double. I guess its a weight thing. If so then they should remove some chairs to cut the weight asap.




I'd rather see it operate as a double before I'd remove any  more chairs (I think they already removed 7).


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 17, 2017)

arm rests and cup holders for the middle or no?


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## jrmagic (Feb 17, 2017)

benski said:


> There snow report says is going to opperate as a double. I guess its a weight thing. If so then they should remove some chairs to cut the weight asap.


The lift was originally a double and then converted to a triple so now its a double with a wide bench. Why cut weight? The Tramway board would not have certified it if it was over capacity. 

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## benski (Feb 17, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> The lift was originally a double and then converted to a triple so now its a double with a wide bench. Why cut weight? The Tramway board would not have certified it if it was over capacity.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app



Why only load two people then? Sounds like the Jay tram.


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## prsboogie (Feb 17, 2017)

Nick said:


> Keep your eyes peeled guys. I'm putting something together for March for us  confirming it now ...



Did everyone miss this?? Can't wait to here the deets!!


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## Sorcerer (Feb 17, 2017)

benski said:


> Why only load two people then? Sounds like the Jay tram.



2 people per chair is the weight load that passed the inspection. You could load 3 peole on fewer chairs and get the same result but I think loading 2 per chair is more efficient  and (.arm rests and cup holders for the middle or no?)


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 17, 2017)

Sorcerer said:


> 2 people per chair is the weight load that passed the inspection. You could load 3 peole on fewer chairs and get the same result but I think loading 2 per chair is more efficient  and (.arm rests and cup holders for the middle or no?)


on th elift
I was there today and conditions were off the charts. Great groomed, great natural and due to my pending shoulder surgery next week no further exploration. 

Wow what timing on the lift. Last Monday they were full up in both lots I hear. They may need to plow out the C lot and get a bus!

Joe


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## drjeff (Feb 17, 2017)

Can't wait to ride the Black when I'm there on Sunday!

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## JamaicaMan (Feb 17, 2017)

Black has a Full load of chairs. It's been approved as a double since motor changed out and downsized in 2005 by prior owners. A double load is right-sized for the engine and the number of chairs. In the off-season the chair will be upgraded further in power with higher horsepower engine and drive to a full triple person weight load. In the meantime, it's the roomiest double in VT


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## gmcunni (Feb 17, 2017)

who gets the honor of first chair on black tomorrow?


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## mriceyman (Feb 17, 2017)

Saw it running last week.. awesome for the mountain


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## mishka (Feb 18, 2017)

couldn't believe my eyes when I saw black chair spinning on Thursday. Went over and touch history. So great to have black chair operational for mountain specially for this weekend


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## skifree (Feb 18, 2017)

most older triples where built for smaller people. Put 3 adults in a triple and you know what i mean.   cozy.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 18, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Black has a Full load of chairs. It's been approved as a double since motor changed out and downsized in 2005 by prior owners. A double load is right-sized for the engine and the number of chairs. In the off-season the chair will be upgraded further in power with higher horsepower engine and drive to a full triple person weight load. In the meantime, it's the roomiest double in VT
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Well, maybe a replacement is in order. It's a very old lift that was upgraded on the cheap way back when.

I know some of you will burn me at the stake for saying that, but it's true. I want to see Magic succeed.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 18, 2017)

On one hand I agree with you. On the other, let them upgrade the powerplant back to where it was and run it for a year or two (or three) until everything is stabilized financially. Maybe even get Green Line, beginner area e.c.t upgraded first as long as Red and Black seem to be functioning as desired.


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## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2017)

If you want to see Magic succeed then dumping money into replacing Black right now is not the way to do so.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 18, 2017)

For those of us who actually ski at Magic and are fans, Black coming back on line in is a huge win.  I'm sure there is a long list of more sensible improvements to make rather than replacing black...


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## chuckstah (Feb 18, 2017)

Savemeasammy said:


> For those of us who actually ski at Magic and are fans, Black coming back on line in is a huge win.  I'm sure there is a long list of more sensible improvements to make rather than replacing black...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


This. Magic skied great today and lines were manageable. Without two lifts my crew and many others would not have been there. Black as a double is good for this season at least.  Upgrades are needed, but the trails can't handle a big increase in traffic until more snow making is in place. 

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## thetrailboss (Feb 18, 2017)

As I said, burn me at the stake. I've seen enough over 20 years or so to know that they have lift and snowmaking reliability issues. The snowmaking is now better, but the lifts are iffy.  You can't have a ski area of any kind without reliable lifts and snowmaking. 

Every year we hear about how this and that have to be done with both lifts and it always seems to be that they open on a wing and a prayer. And I hear folks say, "I'd go, but will it be open?"  So hopefully the new crew has sufficient funds to get out of this cycle. Otherwise we'll be right back here again next year.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2017)

There's validity to what you are saying, but this is the first season for the new owners. They barely had time to do much since taking over in the fall.  From the sounds of it this was the first weekend they even needed two chairs due to a holiday weekend, ample recent natural snow and great weather.  So, the fact that they got Black going for such a critical time in my opinion is a HUGE win. Imagine if they didn't have Black going today? That would have been a tough situation and likely turned off many people.

Before talking about a new lift, let's see what the new owners can do with a full off season to work on snowmaking improvements. Hopefully when they do that, they find themselves in a situation where the product offering creates a demand for two summit chairs every weekend of the peak season.   Ill also echo what has been previously mentioned that prior to replacing the Black chair, a lower mountain lift is of higher priority. I learned how to snowboard off the old lift in the little dipper area back in the 80s. Great little learning area.  

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## mriceyman (Feb 18, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> As I said, burn me at the stake. I've seen enough over 20 years or so to know that they have lift and snowmaking reliability issues. The snowmaking is now better, but the lifts are iffy.  You can't have a ski area of any kind without reliable lifts and snowmaking.
> 
> Every year we hear about how this and that have to be done with both lifts and it always seems to be that they open on a wing and a prayer. And I hear folks say, "I'd go, but will it be open?"  So hopefully the new crew has sufficient funds to get out of this cycle. Otherwise we'll be right back here again next year.
> 
> ...



I think the things the "new crew" has done in the last 6 months is leaps and bounds ahead of what has been done in the past couple of years. I mean less than 2 months since opening and they got the black running for the first time in years. Give them the appropriate time needed and this place will be a gem for years to come. It will not happen overnight but they are headed in the right direction


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 18, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> This. Magic skied great today and lines were manageable. Without two lifts my crew and many others would not have been there. Black as a double is good for this season at least.  Upgrades are needed, but the trails can't handle a big increase in traffic until more snow making is in place.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app



Managable- huh- I never waited more than about more than eight minutes.

Snow making? What part of 45 out of 45 trails were you disappointed with? 

Did you wear yourself out on Upper Black Line, Red Line or Master Magician?

How would you propose to make snow on the rock faces?

That's the only bare spots I saw and half the problem was people side slipping them. Ok Witch faces the sun and always gets bony.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 18, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> As I said, burn me at the stake. I've seen enough over 20 years or so to know that they have lift and snowmaking reliability issues. The snowmaking is now better, but the lifts are iffy.  You can't have a ski area of any kind without reliable lifts and snowmaking.
> 
> Every year we hear about how this and that have to be done with both lifts and it always seems to be that they open on a wing and a prayer. And I hear folks say, "I'd go, but will it be open?"  So hopefully the new crew has sufficient funds to get out of this cycle. Otherwise we'll be right back here again next year.
> 
> ...



The lifts are fine. They could make snow on 2/3 of the mountain if needed. There is a five year plan and funds for it.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 18, 2017)

By the way, the expenditure on Black goes back to the Jim Sullivan era. A long and way too steady effort. I called the lift inspector a couple of years ago. He said no problem, they would get it running and they did.


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## mriceyman (Feb 18, 2017)

JoeB-Z said:


> By the way, the expenditure on Black goes back to the Jim Sullivan era. A long and way too steady effort. I called the lift inspector a couple of years ago. He said no problem, they would get it running and they did.



I have doubts they would have ever gotten it running again but thank god we will never know the answer


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 18, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> I have doubts they would have ever gotten it running again but thank god we will never know the answer
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Black rode so nicely today. Not a squeak or struggle.


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## chuckstah (Feb 18, 2017)

JoeB-Z said:


> Managable- huh- I never waited more than about more than eight minutes.
> 
> Snow making? What part of 45 out of 45 trails were you disappointed with?
> 
> ...


I wasn't dissing.   Today was good. You sound a little defensive.   I'm saying that the natural won't hold up to huge crowds, same situation as MRG. Snow making needs upgrading before lift capacity increase.  Good to see everything open. 

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## JoeB-Z (Feb 19, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> I wasn't dissing.   Today was good. You sound a little defensive.   I'm saying that the natural won't hold up to huge crowds, same situation as MRG. Snow making needs upgrading before lift capacity increase.  Good to see everything open.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app



Good point and I was more than a little too defensive. I am also grumpy as I am off to shoulder surgery this week and my ski year is over.

I think the new pumps, repaired lines and new guns will make a big difference to sustaining snow coverage. Also the pond dam has been fixed. The temps and inversions really hurt the start of the year. 

The situation on natural is not helped by people unable to make a single turn on the steep part of Red Line (for example). Sideslip it all the way (ok, one kick turn when they ran out of trail). No doubt big boasting ensued in the lodge.


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## chuckstah (Feb 19, 2017)

JoeB-Z said:


> Good point and I was more than a little too defensive. I am also grumpy as I am off to shoulder surgery this week and my ski year is over.
> 
> I think the new pumps, repaired lines and new guns will make a big difference to sustaining snow coverage. Also the pond dam has been fixed. The temps and inversions really hurt the start of the year.
> 
> The situation on natural is not helped by people unable to make a single turn on the steep part of Red Line (for example). Sideslip it all the way (ok, one kick turn when they ran out of trail). No doubt big boasting ensued in the lodge.


It's nice to see Magic had a record day yesterday, and kept up nicely with the crowds. BLT was also packed. Hope all goes well with the surgery.  

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## Savemeasammy (Feb 19, 2017)

JoeB-Z said:


> The situation on natural is not helped by people unable to make a single turn on the steep part of Red Line (for example). Sideslip it all the way (ok, one kick turn when they ran out of trail). No doubt big boasting ensued in the lodge.






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## drjeff (Feb 19, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> It's nice to see Magic had a record day yesterday, and kept up nicely with the crowds. BLT was also packed. Hope all goes well with the surgery.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app


So busy today (Sunday) that they stopped selling lift tickets in the afternoon!! 15 minute lines on both the black and red, packed deck, big crowd in the BLT, lots of smiling faces enjoy some AWESOME weather and a great day!!

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## Kleetus (Feb 19, 2017)

drjeff said:


> So busy today (Sunday) that they stopped selling lift tickets in the afternoon!! 15 minute lines on both the black and red, packed deck, big crowd in the BLT, lots of smiling faces enjoy some AWESOME weather and a great day!!
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



Not that I would be happy to wait in lines like that, but this is great news for Magic. They need days like this to help recoup all the investment in the mountain this year and work towards making a profit. 

I know none of us like skiing in holiday crowds or lines, but this is what is needed to keep Magic (and many smaller areas) viable. 


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## mriceyman (Feb 19, 2017)

Great to hear.. we will be back next year for sure 


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## Euler (Feb 19, 2017)

If you've ever skied a big resort on any weekend, much less a holiday weekend, what we had at Magic today was certainly not a "holiday crowd or line".  It took about 1/2 hour a lap and the 10 minutes or so in the lift line was a welcome break after skiing the bumps and steeps.  Even at full capacity, as long as both lifts are going the place is magnificent!


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## Scruffy (Feb 19, 2017)

Was there today. What a great day of spring skiing in the middle of Feb. A little crispy in the morning, but things softened up so that glades, black line and red line were all doable. Woods were a little crusty. Best run of the day was red line, last run to the bar. 
Most crowded I've ever seen Magic. Good news for them. Lift lines, pifft .. you don't mind standing in line in the sun, with like minded fools as much at a place like Magic, same as MRG. People get irritated in lift lines at places they're not happy to be at. It was a great day to be on the mountain.


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## drjeff (Feb 19, 2017)

Euler said:


> If you've ever skied a big resort on any weekend, much less a holiday weekend, what we had at Magic today was certainly not a "holiday crowd or line".  It took about 1/2 hour a lap and the 10 minutes or so in the lift line was a welcome break after skiing the bumps and steeps.  Even at full capacity, as long as both lifts are going the place is magnificent!


Heck, the most "problematic" line I dealt with today was in the BLT when the printer on the cash register behind the taps closest to the window broke, and it took maybe 10 minutes for them to fix it so credit card purchases could once again be processed!! 

The warm sun on my face during my multiple rides up the running Black chair (and since literally from about 10 until beyond 3:30, EVERY chair went up a "full" double, I think its reliability isn't in question!) just felt great! And knowing that the vibe at Magic is really back, is such a great thing!! 

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## ShadyGrove (Feb 21, 2017)

Kleetus said:


> Not that I would be happy to wait in lines like that, but this is great news for Magic. They need days like this to help recoup all the investment in the mountain this year and work towards making a profit.
> 
> I know none of us like skiing in holiday crowds or lines, but this is what is needed to keep Magic (and many smaller areas) viable.
> 
> ...



Be glad you weren't at Stratton then.  The gondy and snowbowl lifts were on wind hold on Sunday and lines ran well over an hour.


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 21, 2017)

Awesome weekend. Black back just in time, great soft conditions, pretty much everything open.  And just enough crowds to make us happy but not frustrated. I saw black run pretty much all day on Sunday without a hiccup. The chair just seemed smoother then past years. 

Big props to management for making it all happen! Sure there are some kinks to work out. I'm sure DoWork and JamicaMan have a summer hit list a mile long. But in three months, yes they closed just three months ago, lift capacity increased 70+ percent and snowmaking increased at least 50%, with capacity to increase further. Plus lodge repairs, new bar, new rental fleet, new groomer, etc. 

I was also impressed with the bar service. It might have been hard to tell, but they were probably serving 4.0x-5.0x the biggest days from last season. There was a slight increase in wait times but no nowhere near what they would have been without the satellite bar, new keg system, and burgers on the deck. 

So fun to see it all in action last weekend! 



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## sugarbushskier (Feb 22, 2017)

What's Magic going to be like tomorrow re: crowds?  I'm desperate to get out and not sure where to go this week w weather and holidays.  Still have a couple of Freedom Pass days left and Magic seems like the best bet.

Any thoughts?  See that Black's not running, but if crowds are light shouldn't matter.


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## 2knees (Feb 22, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> Word is that the black lift was certified and will be spinning tomorrow!!
> 
> Sent from my SM
> 
> ...


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## farlep99 (Feb 22, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> What's Magic going to be like tomorrow re: crowds?  I'm desperate to get out and not sure where to go this week w weather and holidays.  Still have a couple of Freedom Pass days left and Magic seems like the best bet.
> 
> Any thoughts?  See that Black's not running, but if crowds are light shouldn't matter.



you'll have the place practically to yourself


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## jrmagic (Feb 22, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> What's Magic going to be like tomorrow re: crowds?  I'm desperate to get out and not sure where to go this week w weather and holidays.  Still have a couple of Freedom Pass days left and Magic seems like the best bet.
> 
> Any thoughts?  See that Black's not running, but if crowds are light shouldn't matter.


Im not aware of a technical issue closing the black chair. Unless someone says otherwise, Im assuming its closed because its not needed given the amount of skiers. Monday was very light compared to Saturday and Sunday and that was a holiday. Im pretty sure you will ha e a great time there tomorrow.

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## mriceyman (Feb 22, 2017)

Theyre not gona spin 2 chairs on a weekday at magic


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## Sorcerer (Feb 22, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> Theyre not gona spin 2 chairs on a weekday at magic
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



unless there a a lot of skiers which this week there aren't


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## sugarbushskier (Feb 22, 2017)

Thanks for the info.  I'll be there from mid morning on.  I know it's going to be warm and probably slushy at times, but the weather doesn't look good for awhile so I need to get out.  Any other AZers there tomorrow?


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 22, 2017)

Black runs when there is a need to run it. Weekdays it's not needed. Today was spring skiing at its best. It's February right?


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## slatham (Feb 23, 2017)

Black is the lift running today. Haven't seen that in a while!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 23, 2017)

slatham said:


> Black is the lift running today. Haven't seen that in a while!



A little Morning maintenance on Red.


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 23, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> A little Morning maintenance on Red.



Nice to have two! 


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## rocks860 (Feb 24, 2017)

We're going up next weekend (Friday and saturday) staying at my gf's coworkers condo at the base. Hope this rain/summer weather doesn't ruin things


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## NYDB (Feb 24, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> We're going up next weekend (Friday and saturday) staying at my gf's coworkers condo at the base. Hope this rain/summer weather doesn't ruin things
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unfortunately it's torched.  Feel bad for mountain especially after such good conditions last week. Most of west side is gone. Tali, lower black and heart of mag is it. 

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## billski (Feb 25, 2017)

Sucks.  here's for a much better March, but I'm afraid we'll have to jump on it fast when the dump comes.  Just like last year.  Plan to get suddenly sick.


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## rocks860 (Feb 25, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Unfortunately it's torched.  Feel bad for mountain especially after such good conditions last week. Most of west side is gone. Tali, lower black and heart of mag is it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using AlpineZone mobile app



Is there any beginner/intermediate stuff left? My gf mostly sticks to greens and maybe blues


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## slatham (Feb 25, 2017)

They have TTB green, blue and black trails covered with snowmaking, which should withstand this nastiness.


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## NYDB (Feb 25, 2017)

They'll have the easy way down, trick to showoff and wizard to tali. There is a lot of snow on talisman I can't seeing them having much else if anything open besides those 3ish routes.  They are not alone. It was a Brutal meltdown for all So Vt.  3 days in the 60's.  Go west young man.  

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## slatham (Feb 25, 2017)

To be more specific, while I don't know how things will come through this warm up, I d know they made snow on the following, which should be in action even with the melt:

Upper Carpet
Medium
Trick
Wand
Show Off
Hocus Pocus
Wizard to Tail to Wiz to base.

Others may be in play too especially if there get a couple of inches tonight which is not out of the question.


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## dlague (Feb 26, 2017)

Wow!  Hard to believe after all the great trip reports and Magic stoke being discussed here.  That sucks.

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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 28, 2017)

I love the new ownership's dedication to putting out a good product. From the website...

"February 27th

March-ing to a beat of a different drummer.​
​
We're heading in to March. Not usually a time to make snow at most sk resorts. But that's exactly what we are going to do. It seems we have to get through a couple more days of ugly weather, but we are prepping to make snow when the temps drop on Thursday and Friday to make the skiing better into this weekend's WinterFest celebration. (Yes, it is still winter.)
​
We are going to blow snow on both the West and East sides so  we can ski into April on both sides of the mountain. There are also predictions for 4" of snow on Friday when we re-open then into the weekend. Next week also has other potential snow storm opportunities as March can sometimes be the snowiest month in Vermont.
​
While the weather has been up and down dramatically this year, we here at SKI MAGIC remain committed to giving you as good an experience as possible on and off the slopes--even if that means spending more money on snowmaking in March."


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## sugarbushskier (Feb 28, 2017)

Nice!!  Wanting to get back up there after my first day in 20+ years so this is great news!

Best terrain in S VT!  Way to go new owners!


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## rocks860 (Feb 28, 2017)

We're supposed to go up this weekend, if nothing else we'll be drinking at the tavern but will it be worth skiing at all?


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## prsboogie (Feb 28, 2017)

They posted that the guns would be out and running this weekend so good chance it would be ok


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## drjeff (Mar 1, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> We're supposed to go up this weekend, if nothing else we'll be drinking at the tavern but will it be worth skiing at all?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Will you be skiing the trees and the natural terrain? Probably not

Will you be skiing their snowmaking terrain on the East and West sides - yup!

The base they had down on their snowmaking terrain when I was there the Sunday of Pres weekend (just as the blowtorch events started) was significant.  And with some resurfacing and the often IMHO VERY underrated grooming job that Magic does, you'll be getting some laps more than likely on very good quality snow surfaces


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## Tin (Mar 1, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Will you be skiing the trees and the natural terrain? Probably not




This is true of everywhere in New England (except maybe Jay, Loaf, SR, and Wildcat) after today. Even the pics from Stowe have been fugly.


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## rocks860 (Mar 1, 2017)

We're going up Friday and trying to decide whether to head up early and ski that day or just do Saturday. My gf was hoping it would be less crowded on Friday I'm just not sure if it's gonna be worth it. She's a beginner/intermediate snowboarder so she'll just be sticking to the snowmaking stuff, any idea when they're going to start making snow? I assume it's probably still too warm right now


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## dlague (Mar 1, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> We're going up Friday and trying to decide whether to head up early and ski that day or just do Saturday. My gf was hoping it would be less crowded on Friday I'm just not sure if it's gonna be worth it. She's a beginner/intermediate snowboarder so she'll just be sticking to the snowmaking stuff, any idea when they're going to start making snow? I assume it's probably still too warm right now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Snowmaking stuff will be the only option right?  After today and tonight, things will freeze up and I can not imagine anything being skiable in the woods or natural.  Although there does seem to be a back side to this wet weather that might add a couple inches.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 1, 2017)

Snowmaking trails only after this extended warm-up. 60 again today with winds (bright side no r@&n???!) Snowmaking going hard from Thursday-Sunday while temps hold. At least a real good 48 hour window. We will do what we can and groom it nice by weekend. If you have skis or boards on, then you're having fun. (Plus Saturday's torch--how appropriate--light parade, fireworks and band from Baltimore will be a blast). F Mother Nature right now. Really.


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## dlague (Mar 1, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Snowmaking trails only after this extended warm-up. 60 again today with winds (bright side no r@&n???!) Snowmaking going hard from Thursday-Sunday while temps hold. At least a real good 48 hour window. We will do what we can and groom it nice by weekend. If you have skis or boards on, then you're having fun. (Plus Saturday's torch--how appropriate--light parade, fireworks and band from Baltimore will be a blast). F Mother Nature right now. Really.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Give it time - it is on its way!


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## rocks860 (Mar 1, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Snowmaking trails only after this extended warm-up. 60 again today with winds (bright side no r@&n???!) Snowmaking going hard from Thursday-Sunday while temps hold. At least a real good 48 hour window. We will do what we can and groom it nice by weekend. If you have skis or boards on, then you're having fun. (Plus Saturday's torch--how appropriate--light parade, fireworks and band from Baltimore will be a blast). F Mother Nature right now. Really.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



We will definitely be there for the festivities regardless of the conditions. Looking forward to it


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## NYDB (Mar 2, 2017)

The camera is showing the uglyness on Black Line right now.  Top of Mag looks bare.    Tali Glacier still looks solid. 

At least they had a solid presidents weekend with both lifts running


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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2017)

Well definitely won't be skiing magic tomorrow as they're not open again until Saturday. Thought about bromley but I don't particularly want to spend 75 bucks when they only have 16 trails open


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## skimagic (Mar 2, 2017)

Bromley will have more tomorrow.. I believe some trees fell on some trails.  Buy a 4 pak for 99 and ski 2 days


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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2017)

And skip magic?


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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2017)

Wait so one adult ticket is 74 but a 4 pack is 99? How does that make any sense


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## mriceyman (Mar 2, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> Wait so one adult ticket is 74 but a 4 pack is 99? How does that make any sense
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Magic is 51 on their website for Saturday 


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## skimagic (Mar 2, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> Wait so one adult ticket is 74 but a 4 pack is 99? How does that make any sense
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nothing makes sense nowadays it seems.  The 4 pak is also good early season next year.  Although Bromley can't match Magics terrain, they do have a bit more snow.  I moguls were limited when I was there Monday.


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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2017)

Looks like we'll just be skiing Saturday at magic and hanging out tomorrow. Maybe we'll go down to Manchester or something. Definitely gotta do some drinking at the black line though


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## drjeff (Mar 2, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> Looks like we'll just be skiing Saturday at magic and hanging out tomorrow. Maybe we'll go down to Manchester or something. Definitely gotta do some drinking at the black line though
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you need to stock the the beer supply where you're staying if you're driving around tomorrow, Meulman's Craft Draughts, at the junction of 100 and 30 about 15 minutes South of Magic has a GREAT selection of beers, both VT and beyond - and no they don't have Heady, but they do have a ton of comparable offerings for sure!!

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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2017)

drjeff said:


> If you need to stock the the beer supply where you're staying if you're driving around tomorrow, Meulman's Craft Draughts, at the junction of 100 and 30 about 15 minutes South of Magic has a GREAT selection of beers, both VT and beyond - and no they don't have Heady, but they do have a ton of comparable offerings for sure!!
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



Is that down near Stratton? It sounds familiar, I'm sure I've driven by it


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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2017)

I had some heady when we were up at sugarbush in January, man is it delicious


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## bushpilot (Mar 2, 2017)

rocks860 said:


> I had some heady when we were up at sugarbush in January, man is it delicious
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Try the Focal Banger!


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## ShadyGrove (Mar 3, 2017)

drjeff said:


> If you need to stock the the beer supply where you're staying if you're driving around tomorrow, Meulman's Craft Draughts, at the junction of 100 and 30 about 15 minutes South of Magic has a GREAT selection of beers, both VT and beyond - and no they don't have Heady, but they do have a ton of comparable offerings for sure!!
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



Greg and his wife have a great selection.  Lots of Burlington Beer Co. and Lost Nation in stock right now.

edited: They have Second Fiddle in stock today!!!


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## prsboogie (Mar 3, 2017)

Try the 14th Star tribute if you like Heady! 


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## rocks860 (Mar 3, 2017)

bushpilot said:


> Try the Focal Banger!



Oh I've had it at the big picture


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## rocks860 (Mar 3, 2017)

Took the suggestion and stopped on the way up, that place is awesome. Came away with this 







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## jrmagic (Mar 3, 2017)

Looking forward to winters return  at Magicc this weekend. I've had my fill of spring skiing until spring!

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## drjeff (Mar 3, 2017)

ShadyGrove said:


> Greg and his wife have a great selection.  Lots of Burlington Beer Co. and Lost Nation in stock right now.
> 
> edited: They have Second Fiddle in stock today!!!


Randomly found that at the Lyndonville Beverage Mart up by Burke today! Couldn't resist as I've never had it before and heard it's accolades!!






Reminds me a bunch of Sip of Sunshine and Heady! Very good!!

And since my kids race schedule has me at Bromley next weekend, and Magic the following weekend, it's an easy "detour" on my way back to Mount Snow to hit up Meulman's!! 

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## slatham (Mar 3, 2017)

Back to the thread (not that I don't love VT beers) but how about the display of MARCH snowmaking at Magic! Talk about a new sherif being in town. Hate that they have to do it, but impressed with the commitment. So the next time someone asks if Magic makes snow, tell them "Hell yes, even in March if they have too!"


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## rocks860 (Mar 3, 2017)

It's snowing pretty heavy right now in manchester, we're grabbing dinner but hopefully it's doing the same at magic. We're heading back there later


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## NYDB (Mar 3, 2017)

slatham said:


> Back to the thread (not that I don't love VT beers) but how about the display of MARCH snowmaking at Magic! Talk about a new sherif being in town. Hate that they have to do it, but impressed with the commitment. So the next time someone asks if Magic makes snow, tell them "Hell yes, even in March if they have too!"



+1.  It's a good message for the future.  I am sure there are many people keeping an eye on it for next years pass options and such.  Nice gun show!!  I am sure they'll have some nice groomers tommorow and if any summit lift won't be on wind hold it will be red


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## rocks860 (Mar 3, 2017)

Holy crap the drive back from Manchester was not pleasant. Still snowing and pretty windy but I'd say a couple inches so far and the guns are still goin!


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## rocks860 (Mar 4, 2017)

Pretty rough today. 7 trails open, lots of ice and death cookies. Also cold as hell but still had fun, however gonna call it quits for the day. Can't fee my face


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## mriceyman (Mar 4, 2017)

It was bitter in jerzey i cant imAgine vt


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## jrmagic (Mar 7, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> It was bitter in jerzey i cant imAgine vt
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


I took a break every 3 runs. The windchill was brutal!

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## jrmagic (Mar 7, 2017)

slatham said:


> Back to the thread (not that I don't love VT beers) but how about the display of MARCH snowmaking at Magic! Talk about a new sherif being in town. Hate that they have to do it, but impressed with the commitment. So the next time someone asks if Magic makes snow, tell them "Hell yes, even in March if they have too!"


They had the guns running until Monday morning when the temps came up. Was yet another impressive change over the past.

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## bheemsoth (Mar 11, 2017)

How much do folks think the potential Tuesday storm will help the west side? Is there any base left, or will it fall on bare ground?

Trying to figure out where to hit for a Wednesday day trip.

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## WoodCore (Mar 11, 2017)

Unless they get 2 feet it won't help much! Natural trails are for the most part bare ground. 


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## NYDB (Mar 11, 2017)

bheemsoth said:


> How much do folks think the potential Tuesday storm will help the west side? Is there any base left, or will it fall on bare ground?
> 
> Trying to figure out where to hit for a Wednesday day trip.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



Will they be open wed?  I thought 50% of the mountain needed to be open pre storm for a powder day opening.  Right now they are at 16.28%


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## slatham (Mar 11, 2017)

They got 4" last night which will help a bit - especially in areas that have moguls/base left as the snow will blow/fill in between. But they will need a major storm to get to say 90% (i.e. all but Black Magic and Magician). At this point there is a major storm possible this week so that is good news for sure.

My GUESS is that if they get 12" and can open a significant part of East side the they'd open Wednesday, though I wouldn't rule out waiting until Thursday, especially if it looks to snow more Wed/Wed night - in other words wait until all the snow has fallen.

But if they get 15"+ I would think you'd have West side options and Wednesday would be the day.

Of course I can't make Wed, but there is a chance I can get there for Thursday.

Fingers crosses, snow dances in action, thinking snow!


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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2017)

Totally believe that 4" based on the same amount just down the road at Bromley where I'm at now!! Weird, isolated squall last night - literally maybe a 1/2" at my place at Mount Snow when I left this morning - maybe an inch driving by the Sun Bowl at Stratton, and then by the time I got to the base of the Stratton Access Rd and turned into 30 to head up to Bromley that's where it became 3-4" and stayed that way all the way to Bromley 

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## slatham (Mar 11, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Totally believe that 4" based on the same amount just down the road at Bromley where I'm at now!! Weird, isolated squall last night - literally maybe a 1/2" at my place at Mount Snow when I left this morning - maybe an inch driving by the Sun Bowl at Stratton, and then by the time I got to the base of the Stratton Access Rd and turned into 30 to head up to Bromley that's where it became 3-4" and stayed that way all the way to Bromley
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



I was watching radar and the Magic cam last night (home sick) and there was a narrow ribbon of snow showers/squalls coming down from the NW and lining up perfectly over Bromley and Magic. Wish I could have gotten up there but hoping for a recovery and snow storm for some late week turns....

Hope your daughter (?) does well in the race today - East Meadow no doubt.


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## Tin (Mar 11, 2017)

slatham said:


> They got 4" last night which will help a bit - especially in areas that have moguls/base left as the snow will blow/fill in between. But they will need a major storm to get to say 90% (i.e. all but Black Magic and Magician). At this point there is a major storm possible this week so that is good news for sure.
> 
> My GUESS is that if they get 12" and can open a significant part of East side the they'd open Wednesday, though I wouldn't rule out waiting until Thursday, especially if it looks to snow more Wed/Wed night - in other words wait until all the snow has fallen.
> 
> ...



They are looking at maybe a couple additional inches (1-2") from Wednesday morning-Thursday morning. Vast majority of precip comes before 0z, especially Tuesday afternoon/evening. Ill be there Tuesday night. Lower Twi and Goniff still have snow, as do the usual spots protected spots. That 4" last night will be super helpful for expanding if they get what I think they might get. Opening day we were skiing on trails that were almost bare two days prior then 10". Do Work et al. have done a fantastic job in maintaining trails/woods so that they can open without a ton of snow. Hell, Black Line was fantastic with 12" on it.


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## billski (Mar 12, 2017)

*Here's your sign*




bheemsoth said:


> How much do folks think the potential Tuesday storm will help the west side? Is there any base left, or will it fall on bare ground?
> 
> Trying to figure out where to hit for a Wednesday day trip.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## slatham (Mar 12, 2017)

billski said:


> View attachment 22121



Lets hope those amounts come true. Certainly could. That would put us back in mid winter ski mode, and there may be more cold and snow coming too. As warm as late Feb was, could late March be that anomalously cold??

As I told Geoff a few weeks, I thought that not only would we get another powder day or two, but we'll get one in April, and we'll be skiing on Easter weekend. Hope so!


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## rocks860 (Mar 12, 2017)

Totally unrelated but a follow up to last week, mm mm








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## billski (Mar 13, 2017)

slatham said:


> Lets hope those amounts come true. Certainly could. That would put us back in mid winter ski mode, and there may be more cold and snow coming too. As warm as late Feb was, could late March be that anomalously cold??
> 
> As I told Geoff a few weeks, I thought that not only would we get another powder day or two, but we'll get one in April, and we'll be skiing on Easter weekend. Hope so!



Josh Fox, MRG wrote about an hour ago: "Boom ! Models track storm farther west and this means 20-30 inches for MRG and most of Vermont"

There is also a strong likelihood of a "conveyor belt" of snow just adding to this through next weekend.  Not only should the woods be ski-able, but the roads, cliffs and houses!
I'm heading up this afternoon.  Radio silence since there will be no friends for the foreseeable future


----------



## Puck it (Mar 13, 2017)

billski said:


> Josh Fox, MRG wrote about an hour ago: "Boom ! Models track storm farther west and this means 20-30 inches for MRG and most of Vermont"
> 
> There is also a strong likelihood of a "conveyor belt" of snow just adding to this through next weekend.  Not only should the woods be ski-able, but the roads, cliffs and houses!
> I'm heading up this afternoon.  Radio silence since there will be no friends for the foreseeable future


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Mar 15, 2017)

Is anyone at magic today and/or have an opinion on coverage of the non-snowmaking runs? Im skiing tomorrow, somewhere, possibly magic. I don't expect much leftover fresh but I'd like to ski redline, etc without it being completely sketch. 
Thoughts?


----------



## Tin (Mar 15, 2017)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Is anyone at magic today and/or have an opinion on coverage of the non-snowmaking runs? Im skiing tomorrow, somewhere, possibly magic. I don't expect much leftover fresh but I'd like to ski redline, etc without it being completely sketch.
> Thoughts?




Ive seen it in worse shape. Black, Witch, Heart of the Magician, and even Green line are absolutely loaded up. Surprisingly Twi and Goniff were the sketchy spots today.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Mar 15, 2017)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Is anyone at magic today and/or have an opinion on coverage of the non-snowmaking runs? Im skiing tomorrow, somewhere, possibly magic. I don't expect much leftover fresh but I'd like to ski redline, etc without it being completely sketch.
> Thoughts?



Skied black at 4:30. Coverage was good. Normal sketch factor at the ledges. Entirely manageable.


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## MMP (Mar 23, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Skied black at 4:30. Coverage was good. Normal sketch factor at the ledges. Entirely manageable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




the flagzz? not good. especially the swiss one.


----------



## thetrailboss (Mar 23, 2017)

MMP said:


> the flagzz? not good. especially the swiss one.



Yeah, how are those flags?


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## MMP (Mar 24, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> Yeah, how are those flags?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone



Not good. Unattended. Threadbare. Sad. 


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## mriceyman (Mar 25, 2017)

MMP said:


> Not good. Unattended. Threadbare. Sad.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Youre sad 


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## VTKilarney (Mar 25, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> Youre sad


It's "you're."


----------



## Jully (Mar 25, 2017)

VTKilarney said:


> It's "you're."



Lol


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 25, 2017)

We had to shoot the Swiss flag.


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## MMP (Mar 26, 2017)

VTKilarney said:


> It's "you're."



Mom?[emoji23]


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## yeggous (Mar 27, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> We had to shoot the Swiss flag.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Have pics? This is an important issue.


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## drjeff (Mar 31, 2017)

Info up on their FB page yesterday that getting they're going to try and get the GREEN up and running, hopefully for next season, is a go!

The progress continues at Magic!


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## MG Skier (Mar 31, 2017)

Are they grandfathered since it was never fully installed? I was expecting they would have to start from scratch and rip it down. Did they borrow some of Jay Peaks green paint?


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## Rowsdower (Mar 31, 2017)

Man. I kinda like Green Line the way it is. It's out of the way and is probably one of the more unique runs in the NE with the lift poles standing there silently. 

Plus its got that nice huck in the middle.


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## slatham (Mar 31, 2017)

Rowsdower said:


> Man. I kinda like Green Line the way it is. It's out of the way and is probably one of the more unique runs in the NE with the lift poles standing there silently.
> 
> Plus its got that nice huck in the middle.



They posted on FB that Greenline would stay open and I image unchanged. That said, more people will know - or be reminded of the trail - by riding the lift. But getting that lift running is important, especially for early season and for families with kids that are not ready for the summit. It will also help when there are races on Showoff. And it's been an eyesore and now looks pretty in Green!


----------



## urungus (Apr 1, 2017)

Magic Mountain 17-18 passes now on sale
https://www.magicmtn.com/tickets-passes

If you have child ages 6-17 who goes to school in Vermont, you can get their pass for $99 and your pass for early bird price $199, both passes include 3 free lift tickets at each of the other 12 members of the "Freedom Pass Alliance" http://s288603809.onlinehome.us/freedompass/
Fantastic deal IMO

Out of state the early bird cost is $229 and $499 respectively, with the same Freedom Pass benefits


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## dlague (Apr 1, 2017)

urungus said:


> Magic Mountain 17-18 passes now on sale
> https://www.magicmtn.com/tickets-passes
> 
> If you have child ages 6-17 who goes to school in Vermont, you can get their pass for $99 and your pass for early bird price $199, both passes include 3 free lift tickets at each of the other 12 members of the "Freedom Pass Alliance" http://s288603809.onlinehome.us/freedompass/
> ...


Pretty good deals especially for locals.  From a distance not sure if I would take the gamble yet on a season pass there for $499.

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## slatham (Apr 1, 2017)

dlague said:


> Pretty good deals especially for locals.  From a distance not sure if I would take the gamble yet on a season pass there for $499.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app



Why the reluctance to buy a pass? Not convinced of early season snowmaking?


----------



## mriceyman (Apr 1, 2017)

In a couple of years when my kids are bigger i will def have a magic pass.. cant wait 


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## Newpylong (Apr 1, 2017)

$499 even without stellar snowmaking for Magic is worth it however they've shown they are solid on that front now.


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## dlague (Apr 1, 2017)

slatham said:


> Why the reluctance to buy a pass? Not convinced of early season snowmaking?



If I were back east I would be a Cannon passholder based on where I used to live.  But considering the Peak Pass and Ragged's Pass and others that are competitively priced I would be nervous not only with natural snowfall but lifts.  Looks like they turned the page though.


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## Tin (Apr 1, 2017)

dlague said:


> If I were back east I would be a Cannon passholder based on where I used to live.  But considering the Peak Pass and Ragged's Pass and others that are competitively priced I would be nervous not only with natural snowfall but lifts.  Looks like they turned the page though.



Who are you kidding, just too much gnar for you.


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 3, 2017)

Terrible shot of Tin.


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## dlague (Apr 3, 2017)

Tin said:


> Who are you kidding, just too much gnar for you.



Just not as cool as you!

Actually, over the past several years they have had a lift or the other not operating, last season was tough and they typically do not do well with poor winters.  I think there is an inherent risk with a Magic Season pass.  I think the new ownership will prove themselves in that these issues may not materialize any longer.  We shall see.  I liked skiing Magic - but a season pass to a place with risk driving over an hour and a half to get to is not worth it.  

BTW my pass at Cannon was under $300.  I also think that the Peak Pass presents a better value with more options.


----------



## Tin (Apr 3, 2017)

dlague said:


> Just not as cool as you!
> 
> Actually, over the past several years they have had a lift or the other not operating, last season was tough and they typically do not do well with poor winters.  I think there is an inherent risk with a Magic Season pass.  I think the new ownership will prove themselves in that these issues may not materialize any longer.  We shall see.  I liked skiing Magic - but a season pass to a place with risk driving over an hour and a half to get to is not worth it.



Nice to see you have taken Steamboat's role on the Magic hating.

Since the fall  they redid the upstairs of the lodge, put a new ski patrol crew in place, got Black Chair going, installed 50+ HKDs and fixed countless feet of snowmaking pipe, new pumps and compressors, groomer, etc. Despite the rain and meltdown last week we were skiing on 25 trails (Tali will probably have snow on it into May). A season pass is an inherent risk everywhere, not just Magic and with Jamaicaman et al. at the helm those risks are on the same level as any other mountain.


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## Smellytele (Apr 3, 2017)

Tin said:


> Nice to see you have taken Steamboat's role on the Magic hating.
> 
> Since the fall  they redid the upstairs of the lodge, put a new ski patrol crew in place, got Black Chair going, installed 50+ HKDs and fixed countless feet of snowmaking pipe, new pumps and compressors, groomer, etc. Despite the rain and meltdown last week we were skiing on 25 trails (Tali will probably have snow on it into May). A season pass is an inherent risk everywhere, not just Magic and with Jamaicaman et al. at the helm those risks are on the same level as any other mountain.



I love Magic but still need to see how they do in a year like last year. Yes other areas were hurting last year but still need to see how they handle it - I think they can just need to see.


----------



## dlague (Apr 3, 2017)

Tin said:


> Nice to see you have taken Steamboat's role on the Magic hating.
> 
> Since the fall  they redid the upstairs of the lodge, put a new ski patrol crew in place, got Black Chair going, installed 50+ HKDs and fixed countless feet of snowmaking pipe, new pumps and compressors, groomer, etc. Despite the rain and meltdown last week we were skiing on 25 trails (Tali will probably have snow on it into May). A season pass is an inherent risk everywhere, not just Magic and with Jamaicaman et al. at the helm those risks are on the same level as any other mountain.



No hate for Magic been there several times and their terrain is awesome.  If I lived locally (in VT - no brainer) or in southwestern NH or even northwestern to mid MA it would be a consideration but at 1500 vert and 95 ac of snow making, 195 ac overall and slow lifts there seem to be plenty of other options to consider.  I skied there under the old regime and maybe that is influencing my views.  Still think it is a great place to hit a few times  per season.


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 3, 2017)

I think I would have paid $499 for my last 3 days @ Magic.

"195 ac & slow lifts."  Hahhahahahahaaa.  I can barely walk today from this limited terrain & ONE slow lift.


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## slatham (Apr 3, 2017)

Smellytele "I love Magic but still need to see how they do in a year like last year."

I hope you have a long long long wait.......


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## MMP (Apr 3, 2017)

RustyGroomer said:


> I think I would have paid $499 for my last 3 days @ Magic.
> 
> "195 ac & slow lifts."  Hahhahahahahaaa.  I can barely walk today from this limited terrain & ONE slow lift.



You're more ragged than the flags. 


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## thetrailboss (Apr 4, 2017)

slatham said:


> Why the reluctance to buy a pass? Not convinced of early season snowmaking?



Long drive from Colorado for him....




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## MEtoVTSkier (Apr 4, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> Long drive from Colorado for him....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:lol:

I don't see anything that would hold me back from buying a seasons pass if it was more local. They seem to be doing what they said they were going to do, if not more. Luckily for them, and every single other operator in the industry, it was a fairly decent winter, compared to last year, and EVERYONE probably has done well enough to survive another year and recoup some of last years losses, and move ahead with future plans.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 4, 2017)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> :lol:
> 
> I don't see anything that would hold me back from buying a seasons pass if it was more local. They seem to be doing what they said they were going to do, if not more. Luckily for them, and every single other operator in the industry, it was a fairly decent winter, compared to last year, and EVERYONE probably has done well enough to survive another year and recoup some of last years losses, and move ahead with future plans.



This is true.  So far, so good.  It was interesting to see that there was some concern amongst the faithful that pursuing the lift should not be a priority instead of snowmaking. Take a look at the FB comments.  Personally, I think that getting another reliable lift going is a good thing.  

And I find it interesting that those who criticize Magic are called "haters."  Over the years the feelings about Magic seem to be particularly intense on all sides.  In fact, one board BANNED Magic threads because of the feelings.  Why is that?


----------



## Do Work (Apr 4, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> This is true.  So far, so good.  It was interesting to see that there was some concern amongst the faithful that pursuing the lift should not be a priority instead of snowmaking. Take a look at the FB comments.  Personally, I think that getting another reliable lift going is a good thing.
> 
> And I find it interesting that those who criticize Magic are called "haters."  Over the years the feelings about Magic seem to be particularly intense on all sides.  In fact, one board BANNED Magic threads because of the feelings.  Why is that?




I find it interesting that anyone thinks snowmaking is taking a backseat because we're taking on the Green Chair.  On the contrary, snowmaking is the bulk of our allocations for the summer.  Perhaps we haven't communicated exactly where the million bucks this summer will see is going, so perhaps clarification is in order.  

In the simplest terms possible:

The snowmaking pond, dam, brook refilling station and stream are all getting redone, which should net us 15+ million gallons-which is essentially quadruple what we had to use this year for some perspective. 

We are also beefing up our mobile tower snow gun fleet, adding a few more towers in key spots, replacing a lot of lower mountain water pipe and working with efficiency agencies as well as HKD to showcase some emerging automatic technology as well.  Some older heavy equipment is getting traded in for more useful gear and there's an aggressive silviculture program to be enstated.  Black is slated for a new drive and motor as well as a lot of line work and a new base terminal building.  Red is going to get line work love and some shack upgrades.  Patrol is getting a new top shack, the entire mountain is going to be mowed twice and the rangers will see some new goodies to help do it all.  

That isn't even all of it. Believe me when I say we are leaving no priority unaddressed.  I'm happy to answer any questions I can, but this is a crazy time.  Lots of preliminary stuff going on to prep for all this, especially given the size of our team.  We're doing it though, and we are not making any excuses along the way.


----------



## MMP (Apr 4, 2017)

Any word on the flags? Repeal and replace?


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## Do Work (Apr 4, 2017)

As for skeptics, haters, detractors- whatever you want to call them- everybody's got their reasons.  Sometimes Magic just doesn't fit them and that's fine.  That's why they make more than one flavor of ice cream too fwiw


----------



## Do Work (Apr 4, 2017)

MMP said:


> Any word on the flags? Repeal and replace?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I'm straight up scrapping the poles and burning the money.


----------



## makimono (Apr 4, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> ...Over the years the feelings about Magic seem to be particularly intense on all sides.  In fact, one board BANNED Magic threads because of the feelings.  Why is that?



MAGIC's always INTENSE....c'mon let's go get a drink.


----------



## slatham (Apr 4, 2017)

Great update Do Work, thanks. I think that when some people hear that Green is being resurrected they understandably - based on previous ownership regimes - think that such a project will take up all of the off season capital budget (and still not get done!). These people are not yet convinced that things have changed, all evidence to the contrary! Communication like the above repeated on the web site and social media will help get the message across. But of course there will be some people who will need to arrive next Thanksgiving for opening day to be convinced. Keep up the good work - progress over the next 8 months like we've seen over the past 4 months  (wow, its only been 4 months? You guys have done a ton!) and Magic will be in prime shape like it hasn't been since Hans was running the show.


----------



## MMP (Apr 4, 2017)

Do Work said:


> I'm straight up scrapping the poles and burning the money.



Dark Art can use them in the park! Longest continuous jib rail in the east. 


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## dlague (Apr 4, 2017)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> :lol:
> 
> I don't see anything that would hold me back from buying a seasons pass if it was more local. They seem to be doing what they said they were going to do, if not more. Luckily for them, and every single other operator in the industry, it was a fairly decent winter, compared to last year, and EVERYONE probably has done well enough to survive another year and recoup some of last years losses, and move ahead with future plans.


I have a pass - Epic Local for about $110 more.

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## thetrailboss (Apr 4, 2017)

Do Work said:


> I find it interesting that anyone thinks snowmaking is taking a backseat because we're taking on the Green Chair.  On the contrary, snowmaking is the bulk of our allocations for the summer.  Perhaps we haven't communicated exactly where the million bucks this summer will see is going, so perhaps clarification is in order.
> 
> In the simplest terms possible:
> 
> ...



Do stick around.  We have had a very good discussion on here and folks always appreciate input from an insider.


----------



## Do Work (Apr 4, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> Do stick around.  We have had a very good discussion on here and folks always appreciate input from an insider.



Oh, I'm not going anywhere :beer:

I am extremely happy to relay details or clear up confusion when I can.  Communicating goals as well as progress is a huge priority to our whole crew.  What good is spending all that cash if nobody knows about it?  We're going to be posting updates, pictures, video and hosting volunteer events throughout the summer to keep everyone interested, informed and involved as humanly possible.   

I can't tell you how good it feels to be working towards making Magic better than it's ever been.  As exhausting as it is, nothing I've ever done has been more gratifying than to overcome the seemingly omnipresent roadblocks that were standing in our way to do it.  I'm already looking forward to Sunday at 4:01pm, as that will be the first minute of the next chapter in the book of Magic.  I'm guaranteeing it'll be a page turner!


----------



## Savemeasammy (Apr 4, 2017)

The Green chair is a great call.  Magic has such a great family vibe, and the one thing that has been missing is the availability of beginner terrain.  


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## Smellytele (Apr 5, 2017)

dlague said:


> I have a pass - Epic Local for about $110 more.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app



I have Kmart underwear.


----------



## urungus (Apr 5, 2017)

@ Do Work,

Thanks for the insider updates. Great to hear about all the work that is being done.  I have a couple of thoughts/suggestions to pass along from someone who first started going to Magic this year:

1) The very top of White Out is not accurately depicted on the new trail map, and led to my son and I taking the snowmobile trail halfway to Timber Ridge before we found another trail leading back.  To get to White Out, you actually have to go down Betwixt a little bit.  But the trail map does not show this, it depicts White Out as a completely separate trail.  So when we got off the Red Chair, we saw the sign for Betwixt, and figured (incorrectly) that the unmarked trail to the right of Betwixt was White Out.  Suggestion:  1) Correct the map for next year, 2) Underneath the Betwixt sign, put a second sign saying "to White Out", and 3) Put a sign on the unmarked trail warning that it is a snowmobile trail that leads away from the main mountain.

2) When Lower Wizard is closed, put a warning sign at the top of Upper Wizard.  Yes, I know there is already a sign there saying "advanced skiers only", but there is a significant increase in difficulty (blue to black) between Lower Wizard and Talisman.  The other day I warned a family about to head down Upper Wizard that the lower portion was closed and they would be forced to take Talisman.  They thanked me and turned back, but I wonder how many other people had an unpleasant (and possibly dangerous) surprise halfway down?

3)  There is another small error in the new map.  Immediately below Wand, the map shows a non-existent grove of trees between Lower Redline and the Red Chair.  The grove of trees should actually be on the other side of the Red Chair, between the lift and Trudy's Run.


----------



## NYDB (Apr 5, 2017)

Savemeasammy said:


> The Green chair is a great call.  Magic has such a great family vibe, and the one thing that has been missing is the availability of beginner terrain.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Plus now when you 'kusty it' off the top ledge on GL you'll get some chair hoots.


----------



## NYDB (Apr 5, 2017)

I will buy seasons passes for my 4 family members this year.  It's nice to have another option especially during the holidays, busy So VT Saturdays (most) and when there are good natural conditions.  And I'm really looking forward to use a few days at Bolton Valley.  

When I visited this year, as opposed to the last couple, there was a different feel for sure.  Getting black up and running was huge psychologically and made presidents weekend tolerable lift wise.  You can tell things are different.


----------



## dlague (Apr 5, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> I have Kmart underwear.



You do?  How about that, living it up!  I can only afford Walmart brand!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Apr 5, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> I will by seasons passes for my 4 family members this year.  It's nice to have another option especially during the holidays, busy So VT Saturdays (most) and when there are good natural conditions.  And I'm really looking forward to use a few days at Bolton Valley.
> 
> When you visited this year, as opposed to the last couple, there was a different feel for sure.  Getting black up and running was huge psychologically and made presidents weekend tolerable lift wise.  You can tell things are different.



Awesome.  All of it.


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 5, 2017)

This was posted today on Magic's Facebook page. I think this is a fantastic idea!!

Final Ski Weekend Update:  If you're a pass holder at another resort that's closed for the season, come experience Magic for FREE on Saturday. Just show your pass at ticket office for a complimentary ticket. What the hell, it's spring, right?

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## Smellytele (Apr 5, 2017)

That is awesome...


----------



## Do Work (Apr 5, 2017)

urungus said:


> @ Do Work,
> 
> Thanks for the insider updates. Great to hear about all the work that is being done.  I have a couple of thoughts/suggestions to pass along from someone who first started going to Magic this year:
> 
> ...




We had been made aware of the confusion at the top and have been marking the TR crossover trail as the ski area boundary, and the entrance of Wizard as expert only. We will have a more communicative system next year but it's a start.  Sorry for the inconvenience!  

That last error I noticed as well.  There's definitely a few tweaks coming for version 2.0.


----------



## Tin (Apr 5, 2017)

Need a trigger warning before walking upstairs. Fox News was on first thing Saturday morning. This little snowflake almost melted.


----------



## Smellytele (Apr 5, 2017)

Tin said:


> Need a trigger warning before walking upstairs. Fox News was on first thing Saturday morning. This little snowflake almost melted.



Do you need comfort puppies to pet? And a safe place marked off for you?


----------



## dlague (Apr 5, 2017)

Tin said:


> Need a trigger warning before walking upstairs. Fox News was on first thing Saturday morning. This little snowflake almost melted.


You were one of those crying in November!

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## drjeff (Apr 5, 2017)

Tin said:


> Need a trigger warning before walking upstairs. Fox News was on first thing Saturday morning. This little snowflake almost melted.


Make Magic Great Again!!!

Snowflakes can find a safe place in the renovated, heated bathrooms! [emoji12] 

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## Tin (Apr 6, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> And a safe place marked off for you?



Yes, the areas often have signs saying "Closed Trail".




dlague said:


> You were one of those crying in November!



Laughing is more like it.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Apr 6, 2017)

Tin said:


> Need a trigger warning before walking upstairs. Fox News was on first thing Saturday morning. This little snowflake almost melted.



Been saying this for years but what Magic really needs to enhance the skiing is an escalator.

Who's skiing this weekend?


----------



## rtjcbrown (Apr 6, 2017)

I would call it a success for Magic when people have nothing left to complain about except which BS news channel to watch.

Well done!


----------



## bzrperfspec77 (Apr 6, 2017)

I sat in a Gondi last weekend at Stratton and someone said "I wish Stratton was more challenging..." So I said to him, have you tried Magic Mountain? He said that he never heard of it... It is amazing how many people get locked in a bubble and don't think about exploring other mountains or let alone looking at a map...

Great move by Magic to open for other ski area passholders.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Apr 6, 2017)

rtjcbrown said:


> I would call it a success for Magic when people have nothing left to complain about except which BS news channel to watch.
> 
> Well done!



Good observation & point!



bzrperfspec77 said:


> I sat in a Gondi last weekend at Stratton and someone said "I wish Stratton was more challenging..." So I said to him, have you tried Magic Mountain? He said that he never heard of it... It is amazing how many people get locked in a bubble and don't think about exploring other mountains or let alone looking at a map...
> 
> Great move by Magic to open for other ski area passholders.



Did you point over your shoulder & say "there it is"?


----------



## jrmagic (Apr 6, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> Do you need comfort puppies to pet? And a safe place marked off for you?


Lets be clear about this. We have comfort bunnies not puppies.

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----------



## Rowsdower (Apr 6, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> Lets be clear about this. We have comfort bunnies not puppies.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app



Meet halfway at kittens. Rabbits are great but they poop everywhere.


----------



## moresnow (Apr 6, 2017)

Rowsdower said:


> Meet halfway at kittens. Rabbits are great but they poop everywhere.


I'm allergic to cats.


----------



## urungus (Apr 10, 2017)

Do Work said:


> We had been made aware of the confusion at the top and have been marking the TR crossover trail as the ski area boundary, and the entrance of Wizard as expert only. We will have a more communicative system next year but it's a start.  Sorry for the inconvenience!
> 
> That last error I noticed as well.  There's definitely a few tweaks coming for version 2.0.



Thanks for the response.  We were back this Saturday and noticed a boundary marker had been put up on the TR snowmobile trail, that is great!  Here's a picture of our the skitracks from our first visit, note run #3, LOL


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Apr 11, 2017)

urungus said:


> Thanks for the response.  We were back this Saturday and noticed a boundary marker had been put up on the TR snowmobile trail, that is great!  Here's a picture of our the skitracks from our first visit, note run #3, LOL
> 
> View attachment 22415



At least you made the left! Hope you took in the view at moonshine corner. 

More seriously, I know the new regime wants this type of feedback. Thanks for sharing. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 14, 2017)

bzrperfspec77 said:


> I sat in a Gondi last weekend at Stratton and someone said "I wish Stratton was more challenging..." So I said to him, have you tried Magic Mountain? He said that he never heard of it... It is amazing how many people get locked in a bubble and don't think about exploring other mountains or let alone looking at a map...
> 
> Great move by Magic to open for other ski area passholders.



i overheard some dudes on the stratton parking lot shuttle bus say something to the effect of "yeah i cant believe he's at magic today... it's only like $10 cheaper and its so small and shitty" ummmm, ok bro? that was the sunday after the surprise foot of snow friday night like two weeks ago. i was only at stratton because i was with a group of 15 people and we had lots of max passes.


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## urungus (Apr 14, 2017)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i overheard some dudes on the stratton parking lot shuttle bus say something to the effect of "yeah i cant believe he's at magic today... it's only like $10 cheaper and its so small and shitty" ummmm, ok bro? that was the sunday after the surprise foot of snow friday night like two weeks ago. i was only at stratton because i was with a group of 15 people and we had lots of max passes.



I love Magic Mountain because of the absence of jerks like that


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## Do Work (Apr 17, 2017)

urungus said:


> I love Magic Mountain because of the absence of jerks like that





:beer:


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## MMP (Apr 18, 2017)

urungus said:


> I love Magic Mountain because of the absence of jerks like that



Not a complete absence 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slatham (Apr 19, 2017)

For those not following the Magic web site, not only is there a "New Magic", based on their off-seasons plans its going to be a "New and Improved Magic".

The Inaugural SKI MAGIC season has come to a successful close after staying open until April 9th. But skiing was still taking place here this weekend as skinners hiked the hill and hit Talisman which meant crossing some pretty big dry land patches two-thirds of the way down and then hooking back up with some snow for the runout. But, that's the fun of late April turns and we're glad the snowmaking provided the opportunity for our Magic die-hards. The Black Line Tavern will again be open from Thursday-Saturday this week starting at 5pm.



We are already turning our attention to some major off-season projects which our SKI MAGIC investor group has given the green light to for this summer. The "Green Chair" project is undergoing an inspection by our operations crew and Ski Lifts Unlimited to more accurately determine the status of the gear box, tower alignments, haul rope viability, parts for rebuilding tower assemblies, and chair count. This will give us a more accurate estimate of project costs and timing with goal of bringing this new third chair online for the 17-18 season. The mid-mountain chair gives young families and less advanced skiers an easier way to access Magic's intermediate and novice terrain without going to the top, and, importantly, provides interesting terrain for all to access earlier in the ski season as snowmaking can cover a smaller trail footprint quicker to get us open earlier than ever before. That means potential Thanksgiving weekend openings versus Christmas openings if the cold weather cooperates. And that means more value for our season pass customers and youth programs like racing, freeride, and young devos.

​

Another key project being fleshed out right now is work requirements and approvals on our snowmaking system as we need to  rebuild our pond dam and stream system, plus sketching out new piping needs coming from our pump house through the base area. These projects will give us more access to water and better performance at high pressures when we are blowing snow. In addition, previously existing snowmaking trails will be brought back online for the first time in decades with the purchase of new hydrants and repair of piping (ex: Lower Magic Carpet, Vertigo, Sorcerer, Witch, Black Line).



More good news: in a busy week for the ski industry, we have NOT been purchased by Vail or Aspen yet. Magic is perfectly positioned as a real alternative to the mega-resort trends overtaking the ski business. There's nothing wrong with big resorts getting bigger. But as that occurs, there is even more of a need for independent ski areas that focus on the sport of skiing and riding and not all the ancillary amusements, amenities and real-estate ventures that drive corporate profits. We are focused on providing a better skiing experience at MAGIC and keeping it as fun, laid-back and affordable for families as possible. Magic must make money to be sustainable long-term. But, if we efficiently manage our skiing operations, we can be profitable by offering a truly unique product at a good value to customers who appreciate a different experience. There's a generation of skiers who has grown up not realizing that a more intimate, freer and close-knit camaraderie to the sport exists. We want to see that old-fashioned ski culture survive and thrive.



For those of you nodding your heads, we hope you will "take the road less traveled" with us next season. Magic's affordable 2017-18 season passes are on sale now at our lowest "Early Bird" prices until May 15th.

​

So come join us on this grand adventure! I will keep you posted on our progress throughout the off-season.

​

- Geoff

SKI MAGIC LLC


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## Newpylong (Apr 19, 2017)

All the right moves, these guys.


----------



## dlague (Apr 19, 2017)

> More good news: in a busy week for the ski industry, we have NOT been purchased by Vail or Aspen yet. Magic is perfectly positioned as a real alternative to the mega-resort trends overtaking the ski business. There's nothing wrong with big resorts getting bigger. But as that occurs, there is even more of a need for independent ski areas that focus on the sport of skiing and riding and not all the ancillary amusements, amenities and real-estate ventures that drive corporate profits. We are focused on providing a better skiing experience at MAGIC and keeping it as fun, laid-back and affordable for families as possible. Magic must make money to be sustainable long-term. But, if we efficiently manage our skiing operations, we can be profitable by offering a truly unique product at a good value to customers who appreciate a different experience. There's a generation of skiers who has grown up not realizing that a more intimate, freer and close-knit camaraderie to the sport exists. We want to see that old-fashioned ski culture survive and thrive.



Great positioning statement!  Overall sounds solid!


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## urungus (Apr 19, 2017)

Thanks for the update Geoff, sounds like you have a busy summer ahead.  Can't wait for next season!!


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## slatham (May 5, 2017)

More coverage of the progress at Magic!

http://vermontjournal.com/featured-articles/magic-mountain-is-bringing-the-magic-back


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## cdskier (May 5, 2017)

Nice article. Even though I'm a passholder at Sugarbush, Magic is definitely a place I'd like to make it to one day. I get the feeling I would really enjoy it.


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## slatham (May 5, 2017)

cdskier said:


> Nice article. Even though I'm a passholder at Sugarbush, Magic is definitely a place I'd like to make it to one day. I get the feeling I would really enjoy it.



MY brother-in-law and family live off Lincoln Gap Rd and are ME pass holders. They skied Magic (in good natural snow conditions) and were very impressed. "Northern VT skiing in SoVT". There's a reason the Ski the East Freeride tour stops at Magic. I love Sugarbush, and I love Magic, I think you will too.


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## sugarbushskier (May 5, 2017)

Magic has a smaller MRG feel to it.  Under the right conditions, the terrain skis larger than the trail map indicates and certainly is challenging.  While the lifts may be slow, it's a nice break and has the same effect of limiting skiers as Mad River's single chair.

I hate to let the cat out of the bag, but know these new owners are working their butts off to bring this gem back to life so check it out next season.  

As a long time Sugarbush veteran, Magic won't disappoint!


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## cdskier (May 5, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Magic has a smaller MRG feel to it.  Under the right conditions, the terrain skis larger than the trail map indicates and certainly is challenging.  While the lifts may be slow, it's a nice break and has the same effect of limiting skiers as Mad River's single chair.
> 
> I hate to let the cat out of the bag, but know these new owners are working their butts off to bring this gem back to life so check it out next season.
> 
> As a long time Sugarbush veteran, Magic won't disappoint!



I think the biggest thing holding me back is it being "out of the way" for me. You're looking at a 4 hour drive from NJ, so it isn't a day trip option. From Sugarbush it is under 2 hours away and a day trip option, but it is very difficult to drive right past the base of SB and go ski somewhere else. Might have to find a day to do it either on the drive up to SB from NJ or on the way back home.


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## Magicsnowboard (May 12, 2017)

I love hearing about all the off season projects. Can't wait to ride not one, but two different "lifts".

THE LATEST
Project and Season Pass Updates
​
We are pushing ahead on several fronts to "make better Magic"--all designed to give our customers better and more access to our special mountain. And, as a reminder, there's only a few days left to get your Early Bird priced passes.
​
Green Chair: This new lift project is underway already. We just received a shipment of sheave trains for all the lift towers and are obtaining other equipment soon we hope from Suicide Six. The haul cable will be inspected on Sunday to determine its status. 107 chairs have been set aside for work (new paint and wood slats for all as we just removed all the old slats from the chairs). A lot more work to come to get the lift finished over the next 6 months in time for the new ski season. Adding the mid-mountain access lift up to "Sunshine Corner" will make it easier for beginners/intermediates to enjoy skiing here; provides a means for Magic to open earlier than ever with a smaller footprint for early season (November) snowmaking; makes running youth races and race/freeride programs better for the athletes and customers in general by taking liftline pressure off the summit chairs; and, finally, creates an off-season lift for special events, like Weddings, at picturesque Sunshine Corner.

New Learn-to-Ski Beginner Conveyor Lift: We met this week with Starlifts out of NH to walk the area for the "magic-carpet" style lift in the "old", but now new, beginner area to the right of the Black Chair (Little Dipper). It will take about 12 weeks to build, but the approximately 170 foot conveyor lift will provide state-of-the-art transportation for beginners to learn how to ski and ride at Magic. Tucked away from heavy downhill traffic and on a nicely pitched beginner slope, our Nelson Famly Snowsports Learning Center will become THE place for families to have their kids learn the skills to take them eventually up the new Green Chair and then finally on to the summit to tackle some of the most challenging terrain in the East.
​
Snowmaking Pond: Engineering plans have been submitted and we will be meeting next week with the State of Vermont on a huge project to take our pond "off-stream" as desired by the State, while providing the necessary volume of water for Magic to cover about 80 acres of its trails and base area with man-made snow. This will allow us to more than double the typical amount of trails covered by snowmaking so we have a broad variety of trails on both East and West Side guaranteed to be open during the ski season no matter what mother-nature delivers in terms of natural snowfall.
​
Snowmaking Efficiency: Great strides were made this season in terms of dramatically improving the amount of snow that could be made more quickly utilizing less energy and fossil fuels. Beyond the HKD low-e guns we purchased, the next phase focuses on new pipe work in the base area. Aging (and leaky) pipes out of the pump house immediately lessens the pressure in the system (especially at the top) and means we are not maxmizing efficiency of our water and air at the start. Therefore we have identified and measured the piping (much of it underground) that needs to be replaced and have already received a quote for the steel (made in the USA quality steel). By our mathematical calculations, completion of this project over the summer should allow us to obtain the necessary pressures to utilize low-energy HKD guns top to bottom. This will significantly improve the efficiency of the system and further drive down our carbon footprint. We will again be partnering with Efficiency Vermont on this project.
​
With even more projects planned than highlighted here, please stay tuned here and on social media for updates. We are making Magic better with significant capital expenditures (~$1 million this off season), so we can better serve our customers while putting in place a more efficient operating infrastructure for a sustainable long-term future for Magic. The road can be winding and sometimes bumpy, but then again, aren't the most interesting drives off the crowded highways?
​
We hope you will "take the road less traveled" with us next season. Magic's affordable 2017-18 season passes are on sale now at our lowest "Early Bird" prices until May 15th.
​
And, we look forward to seeing you at the Black Line Tavern over the summer. We will be closed until Memorial Day Weekend, except for a special event benefitting Londonderry's Neighborhood Connections on May 19th, and then open regularly for the summer starting June 29th.
​
- Geoff

Voted #1 Ski Area in North AmLiftopia


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## Do Work (May 16, 2017)

^

Just scratching the surface too!  Lots of other nerdy projects in the works that don't sound super cool but will have a really nice impact on operations and guest experience.  A few surprises and nice touches mixed in for good measure and we're talking a serious step forward this season as promised.  

I think everyone reading this is pretty much aware of what was accomplished in just a few short weeks last season- massive, foundation-up type investments that we are now building on to truly dial our operational "big picture".  Also, keep in mind that we now are taking that same sense of urgency into a several-months-long string of downtime.  Snowmaking last season was a truly eye opening experience for me.  To learn *exactly* how the system functions, where its weak points are as well as the layout limitations, historical changes or "fixes" and the like- we've identified some pretty big leaks and deficiencies and are focused on replacing those areas- namely the buried pipe in the base area.  It sees the highest pressures and is the most corroded as well as the hardest to get to, so we're starting at the pump house check valves and going up!  As was mentioned in the letter, we sourced the highest grade domestic (US coil stock AND pipe forming) heavy wall pipe we could find and are looking to take this subpar area right out of the equation for the next 50 years or so.  I can't even tell you how huge that would be for us operationally speaking- gaining a big fat percentage boost across every gallon send uphill and a big jump in available pressure up top where we previously have had to run air hogs to compensate for low pressure.  Other snowmaking priorities include bringing Lower Magic Carpet back online, the return of Sorcerer, repairing Mystery and basically trying to piece the puzzle back together that originally had this hill on a closed-loop lossless system, which needless to say we are moving towards but still far from achieving right now.   

As for lifts, the Green Chair is getting an astronomical amount of daily love right now.  We are going "full, every-inch" restoration on this beauty and boy, is she gong to be pretty when we're done.  Necessary testing on all chairs and grips necessary are all completed and crews are lined up to strip every inch down to bare metal and repaint it all as new, with a few nice touches mixed in for the proverbial cherry on top.  Also the trigger has been pulled on a magic carpet style conveyor for the "Old/New Beginner Area" along with a new (to us) shuttle bus for the convenience of our guests whether they're in Lot C or at a Stratton hotel.  Come this fall I fully expect both lifts and the shuttle will be shining examples of the determination and drive of this organization, as well as truly adding another dimension of service to the community that calls this mountain home.    

In the trees, it's looking to be the biggest year ever.  We have actual arborists on full-time staff now and with the help of the volunteers/Machete Militia, we are trying to really get our active silviculture program dialed to the Nth degree- ther eis no other way to ensure our wooded areas stay healthy and skiable for generations to come.  Look for some pretty significant additions to the next trail map in this regard as well- no "secrets" per se, but a few areas that will get some of the credit they deserve for sure.  There will always be off map treats to stumble upon though :beer:  

I honestly hope that this season proved a lot to people who still weren't sure.  We all know of Magic's sordid past, but we are not a flash in the pan group- we area here for the long haul and we are here to turn this place into the well-oiled machine it deserves to be.  We've got a killer (backed) plan, a killer team and a killer hill- with the minds, heart and soul behind this place, I have never been more confident in Magic's future or that of the valley we live in, as the town is already feeling a bit of a boom and boost in optimism.  Let's be honest though- skiing needs Magic.  What makes it different makes it absolutely necessary IMO, and to support that differentiation in a way that gives a graduated experience into its challenge and adventure will add a dimension of inclusion never before enjoyed here.  I seriously cannot wait to unveil all the projects underway, it is truly an exciting time to be seeing things happen in Londonderry!  

As always, fire away if you have questions, comments, observations, cool stories or scalding vitriol.  We're stoked to hear any feedback after last seasons and appreciate everyone's excitement about this kick ass corner of the globe!


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## mriceyman (May 16, 2017)

Do Work said:


> ^
> 
> Just scratching the surface too!  Lots of other nerdy projects in the works that don't sound super cool but will have a really nice impact on operations and guest experience.  A few surprises and nice touches mixed in for good measure and we're talking a serious step forward this season as promised.
> 
> ...






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## SIKSKIER (May 16, 2017)

What the hell is there to be negative about?Fantastic to see whats going on at Magic.I'm actually a little blown away at how much has already been but more so at ambitious projects in progress now.Congrats!


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## jimmywilson69 (May 16, 2017)

Its hard not to get excited for Magic, after reading those 2 posts.


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## slatham (May 16, 2017)

Nice work DO WORK!! My primary request would be to limit the amount of glade skiing put on the map! And of course I will join at least 1 of the volunteer days to help with the secret stashes. Oh yeah, and I need to finish my research on weather stations!

Keep up the good work!


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## dlague (May 16, 2017)

Nice to see how things are progressing!  Great for Magic and the folks there!


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## Magicsnowboard (May 16, 2017)

I was upset by the low number of turns and lifts I shared with DoWork last season. Please fix that (when done with the snowmaking)


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## Do Work (May 17, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> I was upset by the low number of turns and lifts I shared with DoWork last season. Please fix that (when done with the snowmaking)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone





I assure you, this customer service travesty will not go unremedied.


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## Magicsnowboard (May 17, 2017)

Do Work said:


> I assure you, this customer service travesty will not go unremedied.



Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. To do my part, I have rented a house and bought my family's season passes. 


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## JamaicaMan (May 17, 2017)

Good time to buy, not rent ;-)


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## thetrailboss (May 17, 2017)

Hope it works out!


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## Magicsnowboard (May 18, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Good time to buy, not rent ;-)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



That's what I keep telling Mrs. MSB! She wants a new kitchen instead. I am trying to get her to understand a Vt house would come with a new kitchen. 


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## mriceyman (May 19, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> That's what I keep telling Mrs. MSB! She wants a new kitchen instead. I am trying to get her to understand a Vt house would come with a new kitchen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Lol 


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## yeggous (May 22, 2017)

I'm working my way through the Vermont mountains stubbing out community-source, wiki-style guides. I've started the one for Magic:
http://www.***************************/ski-area-guides/vermont-ski-areas/magic-r46/

I'd appreciate the insight that the Magic faithful can provide. Any registered user should be able to edit it.


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## Do Work (May 23, 2017)

yeggous said:


> I'm working my way through the Vermont mountains stubbing out community-source, wiki-style guides. I've started the one for Magic:
> http://www.***************************/ski-area-guides/vermont-ski-areas/magic-r46/
> 
> I'd appreciate the insight that the Magic faithful can provide. Any registered user should be able to edit it.





They turn up the heat now


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## ShadyGrove (May 23, 2017)

yeggous said:


> I'm working my way through the Vermont mountains stubbing out community-source, wiki-style guides. I've started the one for Magic:
> http://www.***************************/ski-area-guides/vermont-ski-areas/magic-r46/
> 
> I'd appreciate the insight that the Magic faithful can provide. Any registered user should be able to edit it.



I'm not looking to register to become an editor, but this sentence needs some help - "The Red lift is the better maintained and more less scary option."


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## mriceyman (May 23, 2017)

Scary? Never gets off the ground and runs at 5 mph.. hell i jumped off it once last year at the last ridge. Very not scary


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## Rowsdower (May 23, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> Scary? Never gets off the ground and runs at 5 mph.. hell i jumped off it once last year at the last ridge. Very not scary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Would it be possible for them to ever raise that tower?

Makes the upper section of the liftline un-rideable. Well... at least unless you want to poach it and duck the chairs.


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## Do Work (May 23, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> hell i jumped off it once last year at the last ridge. Very not scary




Oh hey thanks for putting our Tramway certs in question because you wanted to jump off **at the top compression tower mind you** onto our only (Tramway mandatory) permanent closure.  Hope those three turns were just peachy.  You have no idea how much shit I have to deal with because of selfish decisions like that- and is also the reason we get shot down every time we try to figure out a way to open it.  

You are your own answer as to why it's never open and might never be.  Please act more responsibly next time.  Thanks.


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## mriceyman (May 23, 2017)

Well im sorry for jumping off but there is no way without serious removal of land that you can ever open that trail. Also the lift was stopped(which doesnt make it any better) and it was a pow day.. which yes those couple turns were great. Sorry again 


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## rtjcbrown (May 24, 2017)

mriceyman said:


> Well im sorry for jumping off but there is no way without serious removal of land that you can ever open that trail. Also the lift was stopped(which doesnt make it any better) and it was a pow day.. which yes those couple turns were great. Sorry again
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (May 24, 2017)

There's never a good reason to jump off a chairlift.  Sorry.  Only exception would be a rollback like happened at Sugarloaf a few years back.  


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## SIKSKIER (May 25, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> There's never a good reason to jump off a chairlift.  Sorry.  Only exception would be a rollback like happened at Sugarloaf a few years back.
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone



That would eliminate the use of "never".I was stuck on a chair at Sunapee for 45 minutes and they were doing an evac.More than a few of us jumped the 7 feet.


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## Jully (May 25, 2017)

SIKSKIER said:


> That would eliminate the use of "never".I was stuck on a chair at Sunapee for 45 minutes and they were doing an evac.More than a few of us jumped the 7 feet.



So its more like "there's never a good exception to jump off a properly functioning chairlift."


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## Smellytele (May 25, 2017)

Jully said:


> So its more like "there's never a good exception to jump off a properly functioning chairlift."



Just watch out for the wolves.


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## Rowsdower (May 25, 2017)

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BST-waEDKgk/?taken-by=jerryoftheday


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## SIKSKIER (May 25, 2017)

wow


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## thetrailboss (May 25, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> Just watch out for the wolves.



Post of the day!

https://youtu.be/EY_OyB43pgM


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## Smellytele (May 26, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> Post of the day!
> 
> https://youtu.be/EY_OyB43pgM
> 
> ...




not sure which Frozen movie was the worst.


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## thetrailboss (May 26, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> not sure which Frozen movie was the worst.



There's no question that this one was terrible. On so many levels. 


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## Do Work (Jun 4, 2017)

Met up with a few Machete Militia captains and banged out a bunch of cleanup work yesterday.  Also took a field trip to look at the next "official" cleanup project, and everyone agrees...  This season is going to blow peoples' freakin minds.  The amount of attention to details being paid to the whole greater "Lower East Side/LES" Green Chair area is going to truly create the perception of a mini-Magic.  Everything that makes the whole hill great will be present- and polished to a mirror sheen- in that lower mountain section, but with a specific eye tailoring it to the beginners and intermediates we're hoping to attract.  

Nothing gets the stoke juices flowing like a work day with a few regulars, and looking back uphill at the end of a long, buggy day to imagine making waist deep turns  through it.  Fills my sails with wind, I tells ya!  

Exciting stuff happening literally everywhere on the hill these days.  What an exciting time to be a part of all this!!


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## teleo (Jun 4, 2017)

https://vtdigger.org/2017/06/04/new-owners-plan-upgrades-magic-mountain-resort/


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## benski (Jun 4, 2017)

Did Geoff used to post in this forum?


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## Do Work (Jun 5, 2017)

benski said:


> Did Geoff used to post in this forum?





Still does!  I think he is Jamaica Man (or something like that iirc)  

Whenever I see a Magic article I'm always like "Hey they left out so much!" but in reality if we went over everything we're doing it would be a novel, not an article- and there would be no surprises come autumn- where's the fun in that?!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jun 5, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Still does!  I think he is Jamaica Man (or something like that iirc)
> 
> Whenever I see a Magic article I'm always like "Hey they left out so much!" but in reality if we went over everything we're doing it would be a novel, not an article- and there would be no surprises come autumn- where's the fun in that?!



I like novels 


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## Newpylong (Jun 5, 2017)

Based on the Act 250 filing there will be pipe going on Kinderspiel plus the other lower mountain feeder replacements?


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## slatham (Jun 5, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> Based on the Act 250 filing there will be pipe going on Kinderspiel plus the other lower mountain feeder replacements?



Interesting - do you have a link?


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## JoeB-Z (Jun 5, 2017)

slatham said:


> Interesting - do you have a link?



The links to the Act 250 permits are in the VTDigger article. Other details in the permits- customer service yurt Sunshine Corner, New patrol station at top.


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## VTKilarney (Jun 5, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Still does!  I think he is Jamaica Man (or something like that iirc)  !



He went corporate and got too big for us common folk.


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## Do Work (Jun 5, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> Based on the Act 250 filing there will be pipe going on Kinderspiel plus the other lower mountain feeder replacements?





That main base area piping project will be ENORMOUS in impact.  It will remove a rather large leaky section we've finally tracked down, as well as greatly strengthen the area of the system that sees by far the highest pressure.  This replacement should allow us to use our low-e HKD fleet all the way to the top.

Yes on snowmaking to kinder, but that extension of the "lower loop" system will likely wait for next summer, there's just too much going on to commit to the massive project that would be 3000+ft of pipe (x2 mind you as there's no air line there either), hydrants etc. 

We are working out Mystery as well but that's just a repair job until we can connect the bottom of the line  with the 400 return line next season to connect it as a lossless loop.  Long term may see Trick's downline rerouted to utilize that same Mystery downline to negate losses there as well but that's also a peripheral project.  Mystery's steeper top section all the way to the flats will be online this season.  

Lower Magic Carpet is the real big story to me though, as I am MAKING SURE that snowmaking line  is functional for this season.  We want to blow snow over there SO BAD and are adding to our mobile tower fleet to supplement our ability to do this as well.  The battle plan is drawn and the troops are in motion.  We will be victorious!!  

Sorcerer is another fix for this season that is a simple repair that will have a big overall impact.  Having that as a guaranteed open route when there are races on Talisman is going to be huge.  

The general idea of the Act 250 permit projects though, is to supplement the Lower East Side  to really reflect a new commitment to beginners and intermediates.  Real snowmaking and impeccable grooming on the easy way down for starters (imagine that!) and lots of attention paid to fun nooks and crannies that will encourage even the most timid beginner to dip their toes into the tree pool.  All that terrain serviced by the Green chair HAS to be dialed, and will set the tone for what guests can expect amplified elsewhere once they sharpen their skills.  

The projects we are doing now aren't just about building new things, it's about making what we've got perform the absolute best it can.  There's a lot of pipe out there that's disconnected, blown, you name it- but it's only a matter of time, and we have better gear and techniques every day.  Despite it being physically and mentally the hardest thing all of us has done, it is also the most rewarding- seeing this place come together is incredible.  She's gonna be a beaut!!


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## benski (Jun 5, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Still does!  I think he is Jamaica Man (or something like that iirc)
> 
> Whenever I see a Magic article I'm always like "Hey they left out so much!" but in reality if we went over everything we're doing it would be a novel, not an article- and there would be no surprises come autumn- where's the fun in that?!



I though someone used to post under the name Geoff?


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## thetrailboss (Jun 5, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Met up with a few Machete Militia captains and banged out a bunch of cleanup work yesterday.  Also took a field trip to look at the next "official" cleanup project, and everyone agrees...  This season is going to blow peoples' freakin minds.  The amount of attention to details being paid to the whole greater "Lower East Side/LES" Green Chair area is going to truly create the perception of a mini-Magic.  Everything that makes the whole hill great will be present- and polished to a mirror sheen- in that lower mountain section, but with a specific eye tailoring it to the beginners and intermediates we're hoping to attract.
> 
> Nothing gets the stoke juices flowing like a work day with a few regulars, and looking back uphill at the end of a long, buggy day to imagine making waist deep turns  through it.  Fills my sails with wind, I tells ya!
> 
> Exciting stuff happening literally everywhere on the hill these days.  What an exciting time to be a part of all this!!



Very nice


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## Newpylong (Jun 5, 2017)

My hat is off to you guys, keep rocking it.



Do Work said:


> That main base area piping project will be ENORMOUS in impact.  It will remove a rather large leaky section we've finally tracked down, as well as greatly strengthen the area of the system that sees by far the highest pressure.  This replacement should allow us to use our low-e HKD fleet all the way to the top.
> 
> Yes on snowmaking to kinder, but that extension of the "lower loop" system will likely wait for next summer, there's just too much going on to commit to the massive project that would be 3000+ft of pipe (x2 mind you as there's no air line there either), hydrants etc.
> 
> ...


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 6, 2017)

Yeah I got way too big for AZ...As I post stuff on the website every week, it usually takes about 5 mins for someone else to re-post it here, so I don't like repeating myself.

Funny, probably spent 5x the time speaking vs. what the Digger article went into, but that's to be expected as any publication has space constraints. I'm just glad they were interested in what's going on in southern VT and in some positive entrepreneurial, Vermont, non-EB5, non-corporate-based ski area investment news. An investor group that is taking a different tack. Financially conservative and realistic about the size of the opportunity, yet aggressive in our goals of becoming a real alternative for ski/ride enthusiasts and their families.

Matt (aka Do Work) has been kicking ass with all our on hill projects. And it's great he keeps folks updated here and elsewhere too. On his own (not part of some marketing plan). Our employees are dedicated...just like our Volunteers. There's a bunch of stuff inside and out that is being worked on by Matt, Craig, George, Tim, Travis, Don, Mary, Kerry and others. Can't thank them enough for the commitment, dedication and ideas for making Magic  better.

The Act 250 filing covers a lot of our plans. Not everything will happen this year. But a bunch of it will. The key is that the capital has been raised to see this vision through with reserves for the inevitable bad snow year. 

But nothing is a given. Magic needs more customers to be viable, profitable, and sustainable long-term. We are targeting our investments to improve the ski and community experience to make that future possible. 

A future that ironically fully embraces skiing's foundational legacy.





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## thetrailboss (Jun 6, 2017)

Very nice to see Magic here directly engaging the AZ community.


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## urungus (Jun 6, 2017)

thetrailboss said:


> Very nice to see Magic here directly engaging the AZ community.



Yes indeed.  Love hearing about all the improvements going on ... is it winter yet?


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## slatham (Jun 7, 2017)

Great news Do Work and Jamaicaman. I read that 250 Act filing and can only image the work necessary to create it. We all know you guys have a ton+ of work going on so we appreciate the updates and will help spread the news from the Magic web site to AZ and elsewhere - no need to respeat your self! Looking forward to getting in site and seeing the action and pitching in on a Volunteer Day!


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 11, 2017)

Thanks Steve! Always appreciated 


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## slatham (Jun 12, 2017)

Summer has arrived!

This week we're seeing record warmth with temperatures in the 90s before we cool off a bit later. That's going to make for some sweaty ops crew working up high on the Red Chair today as they repair tower assemblies as part of our annual maintenance checks.

We've also received a lengthy "to do" list of work needed toward eventual certification next fall from the state lift engineer as we continue to tackle the new Green Chair mid-mountain project. The operations crew and Ski Lifts Unlimited will be meeting this week to project plan all these items.

Last week we met with Green Mountain Power and Efficency Vermont to explore the feasibility of a possible switch from diesel compressors to electric compressors to generate our snowmaking air supply. This investment has the potential to save money, burn cleaner fuel, and be more efficient and reliable in order to create a more sustainable snowmaking product long-term for Magic. It is our hope that we can make this transition for the 17/18 ski season.


While there is much going on outside this week, we've also started to work inside to improve energy efficiency by creating a new insulation barrier at the roof line of the upper lodge. While we do this, our thought is to improve the ambience of the lodge space next to the Black Line Tavern by removing the low hung tile ceiling and leaving the rafters and duct work above exposed to create an airier feel for skiers, diners, and wedding guests.  Lighting will also be improved. (Did I mention Magic is going to be a great place to have weddings, rehearsal dinners and parties year-round???)

Besides all the work at the mountain, we will also be attending the annual Vermont Ski Area Association meeting at Killington this week to reach out to our fellow ski areas and resorts to see how we can work together.

Speaking of working together, we had an impromptu Volunteer Day recently to help clear some brush over by Green Line--a big thank you to all who braved the huge June bugs to get Magic looking and skiing better! We really can't do all if this with our small crew, so the help of our community is really appreciated.

Magic has been in the news a lot lately because this special ski community and our investor group is taking on a lot of projects designed to make Magic a real throwback alternative to the mega-resort world--one with the best skiing and riding variety, challenge and community atmosphere in the East. Your help in spreading the word  makes a difference with our limited marketing budgets versus the big guys. So, thank you!


Hope everyone enjoys the summer weather and gets to spend time with family for Father's Day this weekend!

​

- Geoff

SKI MAGIC LLC


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## deadheadskier (Jun 12, 2017)

benski said:


> I though someone used to post under the name Geoff?



Different guy.  Not sure what happened to Geoff.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Jun 12, 2017)

So Steve Latham is Geoff? I knew it!


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## slatham (Jun 13, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> So Steve Latham is Geoff? I knew it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Yeah, so the ONLY guy on AZ that uses his real name as his AZ name is trying to be someone else? And its Hathaway? You'd think I'd aim a little higher.......

All in good fun  - just trying to spread the good news about Magic!


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## p_levert (Jun 13, 2017)

Using hillmap.com, I came up with a vertical of 780 feet for the new chair and a length of 3060 feet.  Sound right?  The length/vert ratio is right around 4.0, which is about the same as most chairs at Okemo.  The vertical is not huge but there should be fun skiing for just about everyone.


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## ampedsnowsports (Jun 14, 2017)

I like it!!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jun 14, 2017)

p_levert said:


> Using hillmap.com, I came up with a vertical of 780 feet for the new chair and a length of 3060 feet.  Sound right?  The length/vert ratio is right around 4.0, which is about the same as most chairs at Okemo.  The vertical is not huge but there should be fun skiing for just about everyone.



About right. When I skin to sunshine corner it's around 800-1,000. Obviously that's a bit higher then the chair. There is some great intermediate, beginner and a few advanced pitches off that chair. It's certainly been an under appreciated part of the mountain. There is a decently long run out on that chair so it the pitch is probably a bit understated relative to how that area skis. 

You make a great point about other mountains primary chairs. URSA at Stratton is only 1,000 feet of vertical and I believe either URSA or Sunrise Express are the chairs with the greatest vertical. I have ignored the gondola because you can't count it as a reliable chair given it's always on wind hold.

In terms of attracting families, improving reliability, race experience, and improving trail count and general variety of early season terrain I think this is a huge move. 





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## urungus (Jun 14, 2017)

p_levert said:


> Using hillmap.com, I came up with a vertical of 780 feet for the new chair and a length of 3060 feet.  Sound right?  The length/vert ratio is right around 4.0, which is about the same as most chairs at Okemo.  The vertical is not huge but there should be fun skiing for just about everyone.



I heard there is a 5 foot cliff in the middle of the Green Line trail, so I have always been too chicken to try it.  Is it possible to skirt around this drop?


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## Newpylong (Jun 14, 2017)

Adding easy access (and snow) to Mystery, Lower Magic Carpet, Vertigo, etc are going to greatly enhance the high beginner to intermediate offerings for Magic. That is s prime component needed to get the skier visits up. They have a gem of a mountain down there and know how to use it!


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## bigbog (Jun 14, 2017)

slatham said:


> Yeah, so the ONLY guy on AZ that uses his real name as his AZ name is trying to be someone else? And its Hathaway? You'd think I'd aim a little higher.......
> 
> All in good fun  - just trying to spread the good news about Magic!



Hey, in my pathetic efforts to pick up/tweak some new boots for my day#1 of 16'/17' season skiing in March-April I happenned to drive up to a shop in the area, passing Magic...on a clear day = some very nice looking tree lines..even at the end of the season!!!


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## JoeB-Z (Jun 14, 2017)

urungus said:


> I heard there is a 5 foot cliff in the middle of the Green Line trail, so I have always been too chicken to try it.  Is it possible to skirt around this drop?


It is very narrow with a rock band. Even skirting around it I beat up my skis a bit. Fun trail but I will be looking for lots of fresh snow before I try again.


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## urungus (Jun 14, 2017)

JoeB-Z said:


> It is very narrow with a rock band. Even skirting around it I beat up my skis a bit. Fun trail but I will be looking for lots of fresh snow before I try again.



Narrow I don't mind, but rock band is intimidating.  Hopefully I'll summon up the courage someday.


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## Rowsdower (Jun 14, 2017)

urungus said:


> Narrow I don't mind, but rock band is intimidating.  Hopefully I'll summon up the courage someday.



Skiers left there's a narrow way down through the rock band. It isn't too difficult although that spot gets skied off quick as people avoid the cliff, and can get icy. The pitch below the cliff is fairly steep as well, probably in the ~30 degree range, so keep that in mind if you point it and blast through that little bottleneck you'll probably want to speed check once you're in the clear.

The clliff itself isn't that bad. Probably about the same as the one under the Red chair where Witch meets Red Line. It also gets a bit shorter from skiers right to left moving towards the little bottleneck.


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## slatham (Jun 14, 2017)

urungus said:


> Narrow I don't mind, but rock band is intimidating.  Hopefully I'll summon up the courage someday.



I find it easier to huck the cliff than try to go skiers left and ease into it as that route is usually skied off and more dangerous. The key as Rowsdower alludes to is careful speed management because when you land you will accelerate and be on a steep pitch.

If you want to practice, hit Black Line and at the rock band at toward the bottom, rather than taking the relatively easy skiers left cut across, head more to the right and take some air to clear it. Very similar set up except you have lots of width to work with if things go wrong. On Green line you have less margin of error.


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 14, 2017)

There will be slightly more margin for error as trees will be further back as they have encroached on the lift line and are required to be cut back a bit as part of maintenance for operating lift. So there will be a bit more room on skiers left to navigate. The trail will look awesome!

Also we ordered 7200' of cable so length of lift will be around 3500'.


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## urungus (Jun 15, 2017)

Thanks for the tips, appreciate it!!


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## bdfreetuna (Jun 15, 2017)

The thing that makes Green Line kind of gnarly is the fact it starts off like a (Magic) green circle and you can't really see the cliff until you're pretty close to it, and the landing slopes down so you can't really see the landing unless you tip toe to the edge.

Great trail for tricking intermediates into negotiating a tough area.


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## drjeff (Jun 15, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> There will be slightly more margin for error as trees will be further back as they have encroached on the lift line and are required to be cut back a bit as part of maintenance for operating lift. So there will be a bit more room on skiers left to navigate. The trail will look awesome!
> 
> Also we ordered 7200' of cable so length of lift will be around 3500'.
> 
> ...



Guessing then somewhere in the 8-9 minute ride time for the Green?

As a parent who has watched both of my lycra clad Southern VT Council racer kids make numerous runs down Showoff, followed by an all too often "I don't need my coat" ride up the Red for their next run the last 5 seasons, the Green will be an awesome addition for the lycra clad racer kids for sure!!  Too bad for me though that my youngest will now be a U14 next season racing on Tali rather than Showoff, so the often cold ride to the top, as well as the hike to the finish area of Tali as a parent vs Showoff's finish area will still be in play for my crew!!

Awesome work you guys are doing!!


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## slatham (Jun 17, 2017)

Back to the stats on the Green chair, according to New England Ski History web site 

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/viewlift.php?id=632

the original "Sun Corner" lift was a Poma triple, installed in 1987-88, rising 833 vertical feet and running 3,516 feet.


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## Newpylong (Jun 17, 2017)

That lift went on to serve many years at Berkshire East, and likely will be used again there soon.


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## jrmagic (Jun 19, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> The thing that makes Green Line kind of gnarly is the fact it starts off like a (Magic) green circle and you can't really see the cliff until you're pretty close to it, and the landing slopes down so you can't really see the landing unless you tip toe to the edge.
> 
> Great trail for tricking intermediates into negotiating a tough area.


So there nust be a ton of intermediates that want oi ski with you again ay Magic LMAO!!  

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## Tin (Jun 20, 2017)

jrmagic said:


> So there nust be a ton of intermediates that want oi ski with you again ay Magic LMAO!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using AlpineZone mobile app



He is a terminal intermediate.


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## bdfreetuna (Jun 20, 2017)

I don't drop 4 footers for nothing. Unless there's gonna be footy for the boys it might as well not even happen.


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## slatham (Jun 21, 2017)

More updates from Magic. And no, I am NOT Geoff......

___________

Progress for the whole family.

Hope every one had a great Father's Day weekend! I know my Dad was the one who made skiing a family sport for the Hatheways. He got me on skis at the age of 3. Every weekend from Thanksgiving to Easter we made the trek up to southern Vermont no matter the weather or the conditions. No basketball or hockey, and no TV up here for us. Just skiing and hanging with family and friends! Thanks Dad! 

And, our work here continues on making Magic even better at providing a ski experience the whole family can learn, progress, and never out grow here. We all know the terrain is here for a lifetime of ski adventure, we just need to make parts of it more easily accessible to beginners and intermediates--with the lifts, snowmaking and grooming that less advanced skiers and riders need in order to progress eventually to "the goods" Magic delivers to the East's best skiers and riders. Here's an update of just some of these essential elements:

- Green Lift (Base-to-Mid Mtn): The crew is working this week on accessing the lift's gearbox for maintenance which involves removing the bull wheel with over 100 tons of pressure! The long process of prepping and then painting chairs (yes, they will be green...Dartmouth green ;-) also begins this week. And, over 20 gallons of black paint has been purchased for the towers. This lift will be transformed into a beauty by this fall.

- StarLift Conveyor Lift at the new Nelson Family Learning Center: While the new 170' lift is being manufactured for the new beginner area, Magic will be working with the Trailside Condominium association to approve any necessary land easements to resurrect what was a premier slope for learn-to-ski in the 70s and 80s. We thank Trailside for the positive discussions so far and know this area will be a wonderful asset for all.

- Snowmaking: New steel pipe is on order to increase the pressure we get at the top of the mountain to expand our use of the latest HKD energy efficient snow guns. Work to replace our old leaky pipe in the base area from the pump house can only commence once we receive state Act 250 approval. Other major snowmaking projects (stream, pond and dam) are separately going through various state agency permitting and approval processes and we will let you know the timing on that major capital project which will dramatically increase Magic's water supply to expand snowmaking and grooming off the new mid-mountain lift (and elsewhere) for novices and intermediates. We have been working closely in partnership with the state and our key partners DuBois & King and Tech Environmental.

- Lodge: Beautification of the lodge space and energy efficiency/sustainability are key watchwords as we keep our classic ski lodge feel. This week has been focused on preparing the upper lodge space next to the bar for the latest spray foam technology that creates an air barrier at the roof ceiling level. This has created the opportunity to remove the old low-hung ceiling tiles and create the more natural feeling environment of a ski lodge. We are also beginning work this week on repair of the existing water drainage system off the slope in front of the lodge. And, we reviewed plans for a new deck to replace the existing one during early fall time period. The new deck will provide more space for our customers during the winter and make Magic an even better spot for weddings and other events.

- Summer Fun: We even hope to be able to open up a new disc golf course on the mountain this summer once we get Act 250 approval. The design looks great--lots of exercise and exploring of the mountain on the lower half and super fun for the whole family. The discs and baskets have already been ordered.

REMINDER: Magic will be hosting the Londonderry Fireworks on July 1st. Magic will be in the town's Independence Day parade that morning in downtown Londonderry. Our party kicks off at 5pm at the Black Line Tavern and on the deck/grass area with food and beverages, then GoofyFoot rocks the mountain from the deck at 7p, with SoVT's biggest fireworks at 9:15 and the party/music continuing afterwards. 

Our employees are working hard to create a strong and independent Magic, and so, Independence Day always carries extra meaning here. 

Hope to see many of you here with family and friends celebrating the birth of our great country!

- Geoff, SKI MAGIC LLC
P.S. For those that haven't ordered season passes, our pre-season rates will save you a lot and can be purchased below.  And be sure to pass along our latest updates to your friends who are looking for REAL alternatives to corporate resort skiing! Thanks


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## dlague (Jun 21, 2017)

slatham said:


> More updates from Magic. And no, I am NOT Geoff......
> 
> ___________
> 
> ...


You guys are doing nice work.

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## JamaicaMan (Jun 22, 2017)

Thanks. Folks here are working their butts off...I appreciate it!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jun 30, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Thanks. Folks here are working their butts off...I appreciate it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



JamicaMan it's been a solid 72 hours since I've seen painting, welding, digging etc. You guys okay? 


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 30, 2017)

Been playing golf...

This was just a little of what's happening this moment...


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## Magicsnowboard (Jun 30, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Been playing golf...View attachment 22668View attachment 22669View attachment 22670View attachment 22671
> 
> This was just a little of what's happening this moment...
> 
> ...



If that is how you play golf, I should start playing! 

Roof looks awesome! 


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## slatham (Jun 30, 2017)

So is that 3 or 4 jobs going on simultaneously?? Just amazing. Somebody's eating their Wheaties!


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## slatham (Jul 1, 2017)

Little trip report from today. First off, in an age of "fake news", all that we have seen and heard from Magic is real! Significant drainage work around base and lodge will eliminate the periodic glacier.


Red is getting some new sheave wheels.



Green has seen its engine and gear box removed. The picture on FB of the gear box is the OLD, but in prime shape, gear box.



And the entire lift line has been trimmed back, including Green Line.



No pics but I saw several holes of the disc golf in place, which is scheduled to open 7/15. The BLT has seen its drop ceiling removed and spray foam insulation applied. Major improvement on top of last years upgrades.

It was also a bee hive of activity getting ready for BLT parting, Goofy Foot, and hopefully fireworks. What a change.

Oh, and they had the best showing at the Londonderry parade!!






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## slatham (Jul 1, 2017)

Got maxed out on pics and these are worth a second post.


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## slatham (Jul 13, 2017)

Continuing my beat reporting on the happenings at Magic, the latest update from JamaciaMan. Let's show some support and sponsor a Green Chair painting!!

Bullwheel Giveth and Taketh
​
Last week, the lower bullwheel for the Green Lift was in good shape and just needed a modest amount of work and a bit of rust removal and painting before it gets put back. This week, George and our crew retrieved the upper bullwheel from near Sunshine Corner with a crane and bulldozer, and, like its sister, it passed NDT. But unfortunately it requires a much bigger investment in replacing its current bearings with new ones. This restoration project is not easily projectable work-wise because until you start taking things apart, inspecting, and testing, you are never quite sure where an issue will arise. The comm line which runs from the bottom all the way to the top of the lift? Looked good from the outside, but needs to be totally replaced. That 10-figure new equipment order was just placed this week. So the Green Lift project budget seems to keep going up which then also affects the timeline for completion. We are still pushing hard for a November completion!
​
After mentioning here last week the skier-generated concept of creating sponsorships for each chair of the Green Lift at $200 a chair, we've already received commitments on 30+ chairs out of the 107 which will help cover prep and painting costs. It's a great way for our community to take an active and supportive role in a project critically important to the long term viability of Magic. So thank you for considering such a commitment. Just email us at info@magicmtn.com with a few options for chair numbers you'd like and give us who you want the sponsorship named after--you, your family, a business, a friend, etc. The sponsors will be listed and displayed both in the lodge and at the Green Lift!
​
In addition to the Green Chair, our friend Red was getting some more sheave work done this week, with shiny new wheels installed on a couple more towers. We are also meeting this week with Starlifts to begin to layout the ground work required for the new beginner conveyor lift so we're ready to intall upon lift arrival in September.

There are a few new things happening this week at the Black Line Tavern as well. The new energy-saving foam insulation on the ceiling at the roof height is being painted along with the exposed wood framing which will give the lodge area next to the BLT a whole new airier feel. There are a few ceiling/wall area adjustments being made at the bar itself. It will be a bit of a work-in-progress throughout the summer, but the Tavern is open every Thursday-Saturday for drinks and dinner. This week we even start our new "Magic-rita Fridays" with Senor Han's magical margarita recipe along wth soft taco and nacho specials. So come by and see us--and you can witness first-hand some of the progress being made to "make better Magic"!
​
If you want to wear some Magic where ever you are, check out the new "Apparel" link at the top of our website pages and visit the store. We will be adding merchandise all summer long so keep checking back. That's it for now.

Think Progress!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jul 13, 2017)

slatham said:


> Continuing my beat reporting on the happenings at Magic, the latest update from JamaciaMan. Let's show some support and sponsor a Green Chair painting!!
> 
> Bullwheel Giveth and Taketh
> ​
> ...



Great update! As someone far away, I love these.


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## urungus (Jul 14, 2017)

slatham said:


> The comm line which runs from the bottom all the way to the top of the lift? Looked good from the outside, but needs to be totally replaced. That 10-figure new equipment order was just placed this week.



10 figures = one billion dollars (1,000,000,000), that's quite an investment!  Hope it won't affect lift ticket prices too much :wink:


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## Smellytele (Jul 14, 2017)

urungus said:


> 10 figures = one billion dollars (1,000,000,000), that's quite an investment!  Hope it won't affect lift ticket prices too much :wink:



Hmm? I was wondering about that myself. even if there was a decimal point in there at 10,000,000.00. That would be crazy.


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 14, 2017)

urungus said:


> 10 figures = one billion dollars (1,000,000,000), that's quite an investment!  Hope it won't affect lift ticket prices too much :wink:



Haha. Yeah, sometimes it feels like 10 figures. Let's call it 5. Good catch and all fixed now.


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## slatham (Jul 14, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Haha. Yeah, sometimes it feels like 10 figures. Let's call it 5. Good catch and all fixed now.



Ha I was going to point this out too but figured it was obviously humor as $1bil is a bit steep for the work being done. Plus they need to save that money to buy Vail!!!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jul 22, 2017)

Slatham you are slacking...

THE LATEST
Green Chairs Going Fast
​
Last week it was 30 chairs sponsored by our fans. Now, it's up to 60 chairs sponsored out of 107. Such a great response from our community wanting leave their own mark on the future of Magic! There's still plenty of chairs left and the honor roll of names are already up on our board in the Black Line Tavern. Even the infamous chair #69 has been snagged...
​
Just email us at info@magicmtn.com if you want in! Thank you!
​
On the Green Lift  front, we obtained critical lift parts from Suicide Six including an almost new low voltage cabinet for the base terminal. It's great to partner with another classic, local VT ski area like the Six! Yesterday both bullwheels had their 1st coat of green paint and the tower areas have been prepped for extra grouting. The buffing out of the liftline trail itself is a sight to behold--between that and the trim work being done on Magic Carpet from Sunshine Corner on down and the gladed areas surrounding it--this new lift accessed area is going to be something special for all skiers and riders this winter and for generations to come.
​
We hope you will join us this weekend for our new "Magicrita Friday" and Saturday cocktails on the deck with our new Magic rocking chairs. Hope to be opening our disc golf course by early August and we're happy to have a wedding next Saturday the 29th as well. Look for a special announcement soon about a 1st ever golf "bi-athalon" competition combining 9 holes of golf at Tater Hill and 9 holes of disc golf at Magic on the Friday leading into Labor Day weekend. There will be great sponsors, wine and beer tastings, dinner at Magic and support for a local charity. Think about a partner and come compete for the best "ball/frisbee" two-course scores with great prizes--and just have fun doing something no one else has done before. Hey, that's the Magic way.

See you here this summer!
​
- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC


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## slatham (Jul 22, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Slatham you are slacking...
> 
> THE LATEST
> Green Chairs Going Fast
> ...



Ha! Yes thanks Magicsnowboard for stepping in with me falling down on the job! But I did buy a chair!!


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## WoodCore (Jul 25, 2017)

Little birdie told me that Magic received a nice piece of paper and some very good news this morning..................


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## dlague (Jul 26, 2017)

WoodCore said:


> Little birdie told me that Magic received a nice piece of paper and some very good news this morning..................



and ........


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## JoeB-Z (Jul 26, 2017)

dlague said:


> and ........



Maybe this: 

https://anrweb.vt.gov/ANR/vtANR/Act250SearchResults.aspx?Num=2W0524-22


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## urungus (Jul 26, 2017)

Thanks JoeB-Z.  Here is a link to the press release issued yesterday I found on the site you mentioned:
https://anrweb.vt.gov/PubDocs/ANR/P...ict Commission Documents/Newspaper Notice.pdf

Looks encouraging, but it seems things could still be derailed if some wet blanket files a request for a hearing before August 17.

Also this is the first I have heard about the proposed 24 foot diameter yurt at Sunshine Corner ... Hope it will keep the vibe of the impromptu bar made out of snow...


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## slatham (Jul 26, 2017)

urungus said:


> Thanks JoeB-Z.  Here is a link to the press release issued yesterday I found on the site you mentioned:
> https://anrweb.vt.gov/PubDocs/ANR/P...ict Commission Documents/Newspaper Notice.pdf
> 
> Looks encouraging, but it seems things could still be derailed if some wet blanket files a request for a hearing before August 17.
> ...



Good news - hope no derailments. And yes first time I'm hearing about the yurt. Not sure what to make of that but so far everything is being done with an old school vibe.


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## Smellytele (Jul 27, 2017)

slatham said:


> Good news - hope no derailments. And yes first time I'm hearing about the yurt. Not sure what to make of that but so far everything is being done with an old school vibe.



Maybe it will be like the Yurt at Saddleback and sell grilled cheese...


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## Jully (Jul 27, 2017)

urungus said:


> Also this is the first I have heard about the proposed 24 foot diameter yurt at Sunshine Corner ... Hope it will keep the vibe of the impromptu bar made out of snow...



I'd be shocked if a 24 foot yurt changed the vibe drastically. The yurt at Saddleback is pretty great.


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## slatham (Jul 27, 2017)

Jully said:


> I'd be shocked if a 24 foot yurt changed the vibe drastically. The yurt at Saddleback is pretty great.



Its the cumulative affect. Working lifts, snowmaking, a working groomer (or two!), heat in the lodge, flags flying out front. Now a yurt? People are already worried about the Strattonfication of Magic. The Yurt might just be the last straw :wink:

I'm just glad they restrained themselves and didn't get a high speed detachable carpet lift...


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## dlague (Jul 28, 2017)

slatham said:


> Its the cumulative affect. Working lifts, snowmaking, a working groomer (or two!), heat in the lodge, flags flying out front. Now a yurt? People are already worried about the Strattonfication of Magic. The Yurt might just be the last straw :wink:



I know, really?  People are not used to having everything functioning at Magic.  Kudos to the new owners/management for getting everything back to normal operating condition.  I think the Yurt is a very cool idea.  Would like to go back and checking out sometime.

Sent from my SM-G930V using AlpineZone mobile app


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## slatham (Jul 28, 2017)

Back on the job......news from Geoff aka JamaicaMan.

Wedding preparations and, yes, other projects...
​
The mountain base area is all trimmed out, with a few dead trees taken out (think old pine by the Tubing Park) and ongoing work inside the upper lodge is getting neatened for the arrival of Courtney and Matt who will be getting married here on Saturday! The nuptials will be outside with cocktails on the deck followed by dinner and dancing in the upper lodge and Black Line Tavern! Weddings are indeed magical here.
​
Because of the wedding, the Black Line Tavern will be closed for this private celebration on Saturday so be sure to stop by for Thursday Locals Night and our new hit Magicrita Fridays!
​
In other news, the month-long public notice for our now approved state Act 250 filing has been published with formal approval by August 17th. This means that our new "Pebble Woods Disc Golf Course" can then open immediately following that. A little later than we'd hoped but in plenty of time for our September 1st "Master Magician Golf/Disc Golf Biathlon Championship Tournament" sponsored by Fiddlehead Brewing and Josh's Wines. We believe this is the first ever tournament in the entire universe combining regular golf and  disc golf (boy, aren't we innovative). We're going to have some fun and raise a little money for a local charity, too.
​
Other key projects like snowmaking pipe replacement, new ski patrol top shack, improved tubing park lighting and new lodge deck will commence then as well. 
​
Your support of the Green Chair sponsorship opportunity continues to grow as we now have 76 of 107 chairs sponsored. Just email info@magicmtn.com to join in and leave your mark on Magic's future. Just today, the old comm line running all the way up the Green Lift line was removed in preparation for the new one going in. New grout will soon be going in the tower bases as we await the arrival of the new haul "rope" (cable) in early September. And, the crew has been doing an amazing job maintaining and cutting back brush/limbs on the both the Green Line trail, Magic Carpet and Mystery so these trails ski and ride better than ever--especially with lower Magic Carpet getting snowmaking on it for the 1st time in decades this coming season. Plus, the gladed areas surrounding the Green Lift area are being buffed out and added to--both the previous tree lines and some new ones (both expert and intermediate)! Finally, the 2 bullwheels and about 50 chairs have already been sandblasted and primed as the crew works in between the rainy summer weather this past week. 
​
Speakng of chair lifts, the Black Chair has also begun some if its required maintenance work this week as we begin to move and inspect the grips on every chair.
​
The snowmaking system will be getting wet on Friday so we can test every hydrant an identify those needing fixing. Also, putting water to Lower Magic Carpet and Vertigo for the first time in decades--a major step in revitalizing the lower east side system in tandem with the Green Lift for early season skiing and riding!
​
On the lodge front, we have been doing duct work to aid air flow in the upper lodge space and replaced 2 posts and eliminate a "decorative" wood beam in the tavern as we continue to refine the work begun last fall to create a more open, airy space with better views of the mountain. We are also getting close to contracting the painting of the lodge. A new look for the new season!
​
Be sure to stop in to see us the summer!
​
- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC
​


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## slatham (Jul 28, 2017)

Lots of exiting news but the "Green pod" trail and snowmaking work tops my list - especially having lower Carpet and Vertigo covered with a solid and early base will be awesome.


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## Do Work (Aug 2, 2017)

slatham said:


> Lots of exiting news but the "Green pod" trail and snowmaking work tops my list - especially having lower Carpet and Vertigo covered with a solid and early base will be awesome.





Yeah that whole lower east side is getting a ton of attention.  Magic Carpet is such a nice trail, but it's suffered badly from thin cover and huge water bars in the past.  Adding snowmaking to it will drastically improve the user friendliness and reliability of that whole beautiful area.    

As for the Yurt, any structures will either be set back in the woods or be down on the plateau where the lift drops skiers.  The snow bar on the actual corner will always be a thing, and Ops is going to be getting into making some sweet bars for the BLT this season.  The best thing about Sunshine Corner is that it has two completely different views- one from the snow bar looking out on the valley and the other farther out on the mystery end of the unloading plateau looking up at Goniff/TZone & Trick...  There isn't a bad place to be over there!  Also it's important to remember that the Green Chair is being set up for summertime usage, meaning that structure is tied into our future off season functions as much as they are for winter.


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## Newpylong (Aug 2, 2017)

You guys reconnecting Mystery at the top or too much work for this year to get that back?

So much good stuff going on down there, love to read about it.


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## urungus (Aug 3, 2017)

Do Work said:


> As for the Yurt, any structures will either be set back in the woods or be down on the plateau where the lift drops skiers.  The snow bar on the actual corner will always be a thing, and Ops is going to be getting into making some sweet bars for the BLT this season.  The best thing about Sunshine Corner is that it has two completely different views- one from the snow bar looking out on the valley and the other farther out on the mystery end of the unloading plateau looking up at Goniff/TZone & Trick...  There isn't a bad place to be over there!  Also it's important to remember that the Green Chair is being set up for summertime usage, meaning that structure is tied into our future off season functions as much as they are for winter.



Great yurt update  Really glad to hear that the snow bar will live on...


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## Do Work (Aug 4, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> You guys reconnecting Mystery at the top or too much work for this year to get that back?
> 
> So much good stuff going on down there, love to read about it.





We're certainly going to try.  It would need to be reconnected at the Mystery valve house and then we'd have to chase down the individual breaks from there.  Not a small task.  I'm really hoping we can get to it though, Mystery has the absolute worst runout of any trail on the hill IMO.  Those water bars on the flats are BRUTAL.  Eventually that line needs to get extended (it now ends at the beginning of the runout) all the way down to the upper loop return line so we can make it a lossless system, but that's another story- likely one for next summer when we're over there working on putting pipe down Kinder  


I could nerd out for hours talking about changes to pipe I want to make happen, but right now it's all prioritizing.  Lots on the plate at the moment, and we've got a limited crew to handle it.  I'm really looking forward to next summer though, then I'll have enough time to truly get down in the dirt and tie up some loose ends/glaring inefficiencies that weigh on my psyche like a massive hangnail.  The fact that we have so many drains and a small pond causes me physical pain when I think about it (OW!)


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## Do Work (Aug 4, 2017)

urungus said:


> Great yurt update  Really glad to hear that the snow bar will live on...





It is going to get even better!  We were just doing the bare minimum with it last year, but we are really going to get artistic and creative this season.  It's just too much fun for the guests to not take to the next level!


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## Newpylong (Aug 4, 2017)

Do Work said:


> We're certainly going to try.  It would need to be reconnected at the Mystery valve house and then we'd have to chase down the individual breaks from there.  Not a small task.  I'm really hoping we can get to it though, Mystery has the absolute worst runout of any trail on the hill IMO.  Those water bars on the flats are BRUTAL.  Eventually that line needs to get extended (it now ends at the beginning of the runout) all the way down to the upper loop return line so we can make it a lossless system, but that's another story- likely one for next summer when we're over there working on putting pipe down Kinder
> 
> 
> I could nerd out for hours talking about changes to pipe I want to make happen, but right now it's all prioritizing.  Lots on the plate at the moment, and we've got a limited crew to handle it.  I'm really looking forward to next summer though, then I'll have enough time to truly get down in the dirt and tie up some loose ends/glaring inefficiencies that weigh on my psyche like a massive hangnail.  The fact that we have so many drains and a small pond causes me physical pain when I think about it (OW!)



Oh I know all about that lol.

Can only do so much.


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## slatham (Aug 10, 2017)

I have been remiss.........

Latest from JM.








READ MORE

THIS WEEK


THE LATEST


August Already!

​

Wow, the summer is flying by...

​

We had a fabulous wedding last Saturday for Matt and Courtney and the wedding party lasted well into the night. The lodge, mountain, kitchen and bar all put its best foot forward and there is no reason why we can't be doing more great events here, especially as we soon tackle the renovation and expansion of the outdoor deck this September.

​

One event that is ready to go after we get Act 250 approval in two weeks for the opening of the disc golf course (now named Magic Mountain National Disc Golf), is the 1st ever combined golf/disc golf 18-hole tournament in partnership with our friends at Tater Hill Golf Club. Our "Master Magician Golf Biathlon" on September 1st will also raise funds for The University of Vermont Children's Hospital. It should be a fun time with great prizes and dinner. I'm sure we'll have many first time disc golfers, too. There's room for 30 two-person teams in the scramble format at a cost of $100/person. Tourney sponsors include Josh's wines and Fiddlehead Brewery so the on-course tastings and party afterward at the Black Line Tavern and deck area is sure to be happening. To register or for more information, send an email to info@magicmtn.com. Anyone not playing the tournament will be welcome for post tournament games of skill to raise money for the charity and join in the outdoor BBQ dinner. Come kick off Labor Day weekend a day early here at Magic.

​

Out on the hill, you can tell the days are starting to get shorter as the mowing of the trails has begun so snowmaking and mother-nature will have a nice tight surface for the snow to accumulate come November. The crew continues to work on the Black Lift to move, grease, and match-mark all the chairs. The back-up APU motor is also being worked on so it is in prime shape, with Travis, our head of lift maintenance and chief mechanic, taking the lead on that project. 



Over on the Green Lift, Matt and Tim are continuing to clear around the lift towers so the bases can be grouted and Ferd continues to make progress on refurbishing and painting of the chairs. 

​

Speaking of painting, we are now looking at colors to paint the lodge and that project begins in earnest next week. It will be a whole new look that's for sure! 

​

Hope every one is enjoying summer as we here at the mountain can't stop thinking about getting ready for winter!


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## slatham (Aug 10, 2017)

Also, note the first Volunteer Day will be Saturday September 2nd! Rumor has it there will be at least 2 more this fall.


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## slatham (Aug 10, 2017)

Well no sooner did I post the above and Magic sends out the below Alpine Update. Wow they have been busy, and looks like they have a ton to do post August 18th VT Act 250 approval. I hope all goes well!

SUMMER WORK AND SUMMER FUN!

Let's talk about the fun stuff first.

We are officially opening the new Magic Mountain National Disc Golf Course Friday August 18th! It starts as a 9-hole course but by next year will eventually be a full 18 holes. Disc Golf is one of the fastest growing sports which every one can play. It's a fun way to get out and enjoy some friendly competition while winding through the trails and woods of Magic and scenic southern Vermont. The "club house" will be the 2nd floor of the lodge at the Black Line Tavern. Disc rentals are available for $5 and we will have others for purchase. It only costs $5 to play a round so it's a great family sport with lunch or dinner afterwards at the Black Line Tavern. The course will be open Thursdays-Sundays from 11am-7pm and on holiday Mondays through this Summer-Fall.

Master Magician Golf/Disc Golf Biathlon Tournament September 1

Join us for this fun new event at our new course with the 1st-ever combined Golf/Disc Golf Tournament! No, you don't have to be good at either Golf or Disc Golf to enjoy this event. Pick a partner (it's a 2-person better ball/disc scramble event) and help a great cause as a portion of proceeds support the University of Vermont's Children's Hospital. We play 9-holes of golf first at nearby Tater Hill Golf Club sponsored by Josh Cellars Winery (yes, there will be tastings) and then head to Magic to play 9-holes of disc golf sponsored by Fiddlehead Brewery (ahh, tastings again) and Prodigy Discs. There's a BBQ dinner after and live music with Saints & Liars at our Black Line Tavern. There will also be games of skill to support the charity at the Fiddlehead After Party. The dinner (for purchase) and music is open to the public but tourney players have it included in their $100 tournament fee.

It's a great way to get a head start on Summer's last big weekend. So grab a partner and register now as there are spots for only 36 2-person teams.

Okay, enough of the fun, now here's an update on all the work being done this summer:

- Green Lift (Base-to-Mid Mtn): Lots of work done, but lots still to come. The painting of the bullwheels and chairs continues and we just received shipment this week of the new comm line which stretches all the way up the lift lne. The new haul cable is expected to arrive the 1st week of September. The ops crew led by Matt, Tim and AJ have been clearing the lift line of trees, branches and brush and the area looks beautiful. The tower bases are cleared out as well so regrouting of the cement bases can proceed.  Travis has also been working on refurbishing sheave trains and wheels. The sheave trains, bullwheels and gearbox are all going back in after refurbishing by late September. We are still looking at potentially having this lift ready for Thanksgiving weekend. It will take a herculean effort and a number of things have to fall into place but that is still the goal!

- StarLift Conveyor Lift at the new Nelson Family Learning Center: While the new 170' lift is being manufactured for the new beginner area, we have worked closely with the Trailside Condo Association to get an agreement in place for an easement to use part of their land for the beginner slope. That agreement is in its final stages and we thank all the homeowners at Trailside for assisting in making Magic an even better place to ski, ride and purchase property!

- Snowmaking: Over 1500 feet of new steel pipe has arrived for our project to replace old, leaky  base area snowmaking pipe with good new American steel to improve the efficiency of our snowmaking system with increased pressures at the top of the mountain for our new HKD guns. Once Vermont State Act 250 permitting approval occurs on 8/17 we will be good to begin digging and welding. Matt will be in the dirt for quite some time putting his welding skills on full display. In addition, we have tested the pipe system with water and have identified areas where other leaks may be and new hydrants are necessary as we look to expand snowmaking on to trails that have not seen any since the 1980s. Other major snowmaking projects (stream, pond and dam) are separately going through various state agency permitting and approval processes which have taken more time and therefore will not commence until next year. We are still working with the state to bring back the old Thompsonburg Brook pump this fall to supplement the snowmaking pond's water replenishment for this season given our objective of making more snow earlier and on more trails than ever before this century at Magic.

- Lodge: For those that have been to the Black Line Tavern and the wedding we just held at the mountain, they have a good feel for how we are opening up and brightening the space. An energy efficient foam barrier from our local friends at Vermont Foam Insulation is now in place in the upper lodge and the wood rafters and trusses are now exposed. Low hung ceilings on the sides of the bar area are being removed which further adds to the view and feeling of spaciousness there. This week we begin the painting of the lodge--you literally will not be able to miss it now! And, an entire new deck gets put on come September to expand its size and make it an even better place for weddings, big events and winter activities.

Magic Gear is now online for purchase

The website is now taking orders on selected clothing--a great new shipment of polo shirts just arrived and we are already replenshing some stock in other items that went quickly.

Volunteer Day is scheduled for September 2nd
Come work the hill or around the lodge (man, there's plenty to do). Meet-up is 9am at the base lodge. And, think about heading up early on Friday to play in the Master Magician Biathlon Golf Tourney!

And, finally, a special thanks to all who supported the Green Chair sponsorship. There are only 5 chairs left to sponsor and it's a testament to our ski community's desire to be involved, help, and put your own lasting mark on this special mountain. There's no better winter community in the world. Thank you!

- Geoff, SKI MAGIC LLC
P.S. For those that haven't ordered season passes, our pre-season rates will save you a lot and can be purchased below.  And be sure to pass along our latest updates to your friends who are looking for REAL alternatives to corporate resort skiing! Thanks


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## IceEidolon (Aug 10, 2017)

I hate to hear you won't have as much water as you'd hoped this season - with the new HKDs you oughta be maxing the pumps on startup, or at least close right? At 1000 GPM that's just three and a half days of water. 
I bet the new pipe helps some - even a 10 gpm leak wastes 50k gallons over three and a half days, and it sounds like every little bit's going to count.
Any estimate for how much the Thomsonburgh Brook pump flows?

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## slatham (Aug 10, 2017)

I'll let Do Work or JamaicaMan comment on the particulars, but I know that their pumping capacity is not yet up to 1000GPM. The good news is the pond has a very quick refill rate, even without Thompsonburgh Brook, and I don't recall in years past them ever running the pond dry (to be fair, the snowmaking effort this coming winter will be significantly higher than previous years). But if they can get some water from Thompsonburgh - which assumes both approval and adequate flow - that would be great and maybe take water off the table as a potential issue.


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 11, 2017)

With our pond's strong refill rate plus a 500 gal per minute withdrawal rate from the brook at high flow periods, then we shouldn't have an issue. But are going to push the early season snowmaking so we shall see. (Of course, need to get that formal approval to bring back the brook pump withdrawal from the state.) 


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## IceEidolon (Aug 11, 2017)

I'm glad to hear it shouldn't be a problem, and here's hoping the brook pump permit goes smoothly. I just hate the thought of idle snowguns at 15 degrees.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## urungus (Aug 17, 2017)

Today (Aug 17) was the hearing deadline, is there any update?


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 18, 2017)

Waiting...no permit paperwork yet.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Aug 18, 2017)

Are you still looking for Green Chair sponsors?


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 18, 2017)

We are a go with our Act 250 permit!

(In terms of Green Chairs, every one has be spoken for at this time.) 

Volunteer Day coming up Sept 2 right after our 1st tournament on the new disc golf course. Come on over for both!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Aug 18, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> We are a go with our Act 250 permit!
> 
> (In terms of Green Chairs, every one has be spoken for at this time.)
> 
> ...



Freakin' HUGE!!!!!


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## urungus (Aug 18, 2017)

Great news!!


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## slatham (Aug 22, 2017)

Good article on 250 Act approvals....

http://www.benningtonbanner.com/sto...-permit-for-magic-mountain-renovations,517344


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## tnt1234 (Aug 22, 2017)

urungus said:


> Great yurt update  Really glad to hear that the snow bar will live on...



Snow bar?


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## slatham (Aug 22, 2017)

tnt1234 said:


> Snow bar?



you have not lived....watch for the Magic snow bar at Sunshine corner this upcoming season.


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## Do Work (Aug 31, 2017)

Bump because I'm excited, things are humming along and the hill looks different at the end of every single day now.  It really is insane just how much stuff is happening all at once.  I can barely sleep these days!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Aug 31, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Bump because I'm excited, things are humming along and the hill looks different at the end of every single day now.  It really is insane just how much stuff is happening all at once.  I can barely sleep these days!



I'm sure you're out of control busy on a daily basis, but a couple pictures here and there for the rest of us to drool over would be appreciated when you get around to it! ;-)


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## Do Work (Aug 31, 2017)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> I'm sure you're out of control busy on a daily basis, but a couple pictures here and there for the rest of us to drool over would be appreciated when you get around to it! ;-)





Translation:  Pics or it didn't happen!  :grin:

I will see what I can scrape together soon!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Aug 31, 2017)




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## JamaicaMan (Sep 2, 2017)

A little deck painting before/after shot from  Volunteer Day today to go with the rest of our lodge painting going on...


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Magicsnowboard (Sep 5, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> A little deck painting before/after shot from  Volunteer Day today to go with the rest of our lodge painting going on...View attachment 22721
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Wait if the lodge is red, how will I find the bar in the dark?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## slatham (Sep 8, 2017)

I have been remiss in my reporting duties. But I am sure many/most of you are following all the activity on social media so apologies for being redundant, but with all the good happenings at Magic I simply have to pass it along......

The below is from Geoff (no I am not Geoff) via the Magic website:

HERE COMES FALL!

Labor Day weekend has come and gone, so autumn is on its way here in southern Vermont. The leaves are already starting to change up on the mountain so it's a beautiful month to head up for the scenery, especially with our new disc golf course as a fun way to take it all in. We've already had over 200 people out on Magic Mountain National and the course will be open through October!


Just last Friday we held the first-ever Master Magician Golf/Disc Golf Biathlon Tournament and it was a tremendous success. Everybody is already talking about a repeat for next year and making it even bigger. The players loved the format, the prizes, and our sponsor support, especially Fiddlehead Brewery and Josh Cellars Wines. We thank all our employees, participants and sponsors for helping raise money for UVM Children's Hospital! Catch a fun, short recap video of the action here


Also, on Saturday, we had a great turnout of our community for our 1st official Volunteer Day. Folks helped us paint the deck so it matches our new lodge paint scheme. Another group was taken up the hill to where operations has been clearing trees and brush  at the Green Line lift and new glade coming off the top of that lift. They did a great job cleaning what is going to be a spectacular area to ski this winter with the new lift. Again, thanks to the over 30 people who took time over the holiday to pitch in and help make Magic happen. You can see a quick video here.


The next scheduled Volunteer Days are 10/7 and 10/21 if you'd like to join in!. And, for those interested in more volunteer, recreational and social activities here at Magic, a new outing/adventure club (independent of Magic) is being formed and their 1st meeting was last Saturday. If interested, send an email to info@magicmtn.com and we will forward to the club organizers so they can reach out--think hiking/snowshoeing trails/events, skinning & backcountry outings, yoga, summer time events, etc. They also have a new facebook you can join under "Magic Mountain Outing Club".
​

There is a TON of work on the plate here as we hope to be making snow in about 10-11 weeks so that we can hopefully open the tubing and terrain parks, and new learn-to-ski area on the lower mountain/base area for Thanksgiving weekend.

​
With the change in seasons, it's also time to start thinking about making Magic your winter home. Season passes are on sale and they save you a lot of money over the mega-resorts, and best of all, you get to ski and ride some of the East Coast's best terrain with some of the coolest people around. Now is also the time to register the kids for our seasonal youth programs which INCLUDE a season pass. Racing. Freeride. And, Devo for those just starting out. Personalized coaching and life-long love of sport and friendships result from these programs. Check our deals out here before prices go up: affordable season passes

​
The Black Line Tavern will be open Thursday-Sunday along with disc golf. This Thursday is also opening night with Pats v Chiefs so the BLT will have a 50 cent wing night special going while watching the game here! So come by, say hello ,and let's get this fall season going!!


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## slatham (Sep 16, 2017)

Another update from Geoff. New and different that the lifts are close to inspection and it's only September!! Wishing the best for George and a quick recovery. 

Here's the latest:

ONE MONTH LEFT FOR PRE-SEASON PASS SALE
​
October 15th is the official end of the pre-season pass sale (ski/ride/tubing), so now is the time to save up to $100 on many of the passes before regular season pricing takes effect. We've made skiing more affordable for more skiers and riders by lowering kids prices from a few years ago; lowering 18-29 year old pricing by offering a "Shredder Pass"; lowering passes for adults living together with a "Couples Pass" (saves $100); lowering seasonal youth program costs (racing, freeride, devo) by including a pass in the program fee; adding police and fireman to our lower "military"pass option; lowering pass costs for our local VT school kids, their parents and teachers; and just being all-around more affordable versus "corporate resort" skiing. 
​
Plus, we've added options for mid-week only ("Powder Pass"), everything but holidays ("Black Out Pass"), holiday-only pass ("White-Out Pass").  We even have a "Party Pass" for businesses or shared ski condo/house users/clubs that is transferable to others.
​
As of this weekend, you will also be able to purchase for a limited time (through October 15th) our famous Freedom 4-Packs which are certificates for tickets that are redeemable at Magic anytime and can be used by anyone during the 17/18 ski season. So they also make great gifts for your friends and family. The Freedom Four Packs work out to about $47 per ticket which saves over $22 versus a regular adult day ticket. Not too shabby.  So head to our season pass section of the website and make plans on enjoying your winter here with us.
​

The action on the mountain is heating up just as the colors on the hill are already turning to bright reds, yellows and oranges mixing in with the greens. It really is a great time to get out and play disc golf and hang at the Black Line Tavern's deck overlookng the mountain scenary.
​
The operations crew is working hard to get all the lifts ready. There has been some delay on the Green Chair front as our key contractor has been unable to be at the mountain for a number of weeks for health reasons. We wish George all the best as he goes through a difficult period and every one is rooting for him.  In the meantime, we will be pushing ahead and looking for additional help but no doubt this will effect our timetable to some degree for that lift. The base terminal has been primed and ready for new paint. The Green Chairs' new varnished oak slates have been put on most of the chairs making for a classic "old school" look. On the Black Chair front, all chairs have been spaced out and checked properly. A flawed card in the drive was also recently repaired. Now the line work begins over the next two weeks to get it ready for state inspection. Red will also be ready to go for inspection shortly after a final assembly is repaired up on tower 18.  Grading and drainage for the new "magic carpet" beginner lift will be progressing next week, so that new electric lines can be put in followed by the converyor lift itself. And, finally, the handle tow lifts servicing the tube park and new terrain park area will be getting new light towers to better brighten the after-dark playground in front of the lodge for tubers and park rats.
​
On the snowmaking front, we just put in another order with HKD to add to our energy efficient fleet of over 50 new HKD guns since last year. 8 new 20 foot SV10 Impulse Tower Guns will soon be headed to Magic! We are also in the final stages of planning with Green Mountain Power and Efficiency Vermont for Magic to make the switch from heavy reliance on diesel compressors to power snowmaking to much cleaner and efficient electric compressors. We hope to be able to make the switch over in time for our new earlier November snowmaking schedule! It's a complicated project involving installation of a new transformer, new electric pole and power line (and of course the purchase of the compressors). This should help make Magic much more sustainable on the snowmaking front for decades to come.
​
That's all for now. Come by and see us this weekend at the BLT which has been opened up inside even more as we continue to make it a brighter, more inviting and visual space.​
​
Think Fall Foliage!

- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC


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## urungus (Sep 16, 2017)

Thanks for the updates.  Is there going to be a card for sale that allows you to pay the "Throwback Thursday" price any day of the week, like last year?  I don't see it on the Magic website.


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## slatham (Sep 16, 2017)

urungus said:


> Thanks for the updates.  Is there going to be a card for sale that allows you to pay the "Throwback Thursday" price any day of the week, like last year?  I don't see it on the Magic website.



If I recall that was mentioned on FB and will be on sale in October???


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## slatham (Sep 16, 2017)

urungus said:


> Thanks for the updates.  Is there going to be a card for sale that allows you to pay the "Throwback Thursday" price any day of the week, like last year?  I don't see it on the Magic website.



If I recall that was mentioned on FB and will be on sale in October???


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## IceEidolon (Sep 16, 2017)

As a snowmaking nerd, l'm curious what capacity the new air plant will have. I'd also ask why 20' instead of 30' - trail width concerns, or something else.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Do Work (Sep 19, 2017)

IceEidolon said:


> As a snowmaking nerd, l'm curious what capacity the new air plant will have. I'd also ask why 20' instead of 30' - trail width concerns, or something else.




Yes, 20' towers are for specific spots on tight trails- a 30' tower would likely send it straight into the trees there and the 10s are just too short to leave on a fixed post.  For those spots, the 20'ers are perfect.  

The compressors...  I'll wait to spill the beans when there's more to tell.  It's going to give a big jump forward though to say the least!


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## IceEidolon (Sep 19, 2017)

I eagerly await this compressor news!

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## tumbler (Sep 19, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Yes, 20' towers are for specific spots on tight trails- a 30' tower would likely send it straight into the trees there and the 10s are just too short to leave on a fixed post.  For those spots, the 20'ers are perfect.
> 
> The compressors...  I'll wait to spill the beans when there's more to tell.  It's going to give a big jump forward though to say the least!



I guess I was one of the lucky ones that saw the post before it was edited with the new compressor system...my lips are sealed...


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 19, 2017)

tumbler said:


> I guess I was one of the lucky ones that saw the post before it was edited with the new compressor system...my lips are sealed...



Hahaha! Me too! I thought somebody had already said something Lol!


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## Do Work (Sep 20, 2017)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Hahaha! Me too! I thought somebody had already said something Lol!




It has been talked about before.  I just don't want to get too verbose before they're in, y'know?  Anti-jinx and all that jazz. &#55357;&#56841;


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## IceEidolon (Sep 20, 2017)

I found a copy in my email - my guess was only off by 100 CFM. That'll be a great system once it's all together.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Do Work (Sep 20, 2017)

IceEidolon said:


> I found a copy in my email - my guess was only off by 100 CFM. That'll be a great system once it's all together.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk





Total game changer for sure!  Dependability is going to be the best part- can't even describe how infuriating diesels are to work with.


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## Newpylong (Sep 20, 2017)

Why screw instead of Centac? Maintenance concerns? Or just have two available units in mind? Inquiring minds want to know  And yes, there is no comparison between pressing a button vs getting the diesels to run and keeping them running! Big upgrade.


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## Do Work (Sep 21, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> Why screw instead of Centac? Maintenance concerns? Or just have two available units in mind? Inquiring minds want to know  And yes, there is no comparison between pressing a button vs getting the diesels to run and keeping them running! Big upgrade.




Basically it's money.  We found a great deal on some great units and they will work perfectly for us.  Centac would have been  nice, but two stage screws squish air into pipe just fine too.  

Kinda cool that GMP came out with their upgrade offset program this year, I heard Bolton is also taking advantage.


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## drjeff (Sep 21, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Basically it's money.  We found a great deal on some great units and they will work perfectly for us.  Centac would have been  nice, but two stage screws squish air into pipe just fine too.
> 
> Kinda cool that GMP came out with their upgrade offset program this year, I heard Bolton is also taking advantage.



For all that GMP has done to help upgrade the snowmaking systems across most every VT resort the last few seasons with their incentives, they should receive some award from the VT Ski Areas Association in the near future!


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## Newpylong (Sep 21, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Basically it's money.  We found a great deal on some great units and they will work perfectly for us.  Centac would have been  nice, but two stage screws squish air into pipe just fine too.
> 
> Kinda cool that GMP came out with their upgrade offset program this year, I heard Bolton is also taking advantage.



That makes perfect sense.


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## Do Work (Sep 22, 2017)

drjeff said:


> For all that GMP has done to help upgrade the snowmaking systems across most every VT resort the last few seasons with their incentives, they should receive some award from the VT Ski Areas Association in the near future!





Seriously.  VT Efficiency too, lots of people don't realize just how massively they facilitate improvements like these.  Those agencies do love working with hills like ours though, like when we swapped out all our snowmaking drives with state of the art VFDs- we were the first mountain in VT to do so to every stage of our water system.  We literally went from worst to first in one project and it's cooperation across multiple agencies and crews that made it all possible.  

Crazy to think of how far we've come in less than a single year.  We are going to be so much more capable than in years past once this is all finished.  I can't wait to turn it all on and max it out


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## MEtoVTSkier (Sep 23, 2017)

Do Work said:


> I can't wait to turn it all on and max it out



Its always nice when a redesign ends up working perfectly and more efficient. We can't wait either!


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## IceEidolon (Sep 23, 2017)

Given how well last year's snowmaking did with what y'all had and the weather you were dealt, I have to think this year will be all time - at least as far as man-made snow goes.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## slatham (Oct 3, 2017)

Today's Alpine Update email:

LIFTS: The brand new haul cable for the mid-mountain Green Lift just arrived today as we continue to put that lift together for will be an exciting new way for beginners and intermediates to access Magic's great terrain on the lower half of the mountain we hope by the end of December. Both Red and Black Summit Lifts are in good shape and after a couple more minor maintenance projects should be ready for state inspection come November. The new "magic carpet" style lift for our new Nelson Family Learning Center will be delivered as soon as re-grading, drainage, and electrical work for the lift and beginner slope are completed this month. The new Nelson Family Learning Center will be a fun and relaxed way to learn to ski and ride for young and old alike. A new communication line is going in at the Tube Park handle tow and better lighting will be added for both tubing and the new terrain park area handle tow right next to it. In sum, there will be more lifts for more access to Magic's unbeatable terrain, especially for those new to the sport and less advanced skiers.

SNOWMAKING:  Also critical to accessing more of Magic than in past years, is increasing our snowmaking coverage, firepower and efficiency. We are tackling that on multiple fronts. First, we are purchasing more low-energy, higher efficiency HKD tower guns to add to our fleet. Magic now has over 50 new guns in its arsenal since SKI MAGIC took over. Second, those guns need more pressure to operate, and besides increasing our pumping capacity last season, we are about to undertake replacement of 1500 feet of pipe coming out of the pump house into the base area to improve our pressures up top by as much as 20%! This will allow us to use the HKDs at the top to maximum effect for blowing snow more efficiently with less waste of energy and water, so we more quickly cover our terrain. Third, we are making an expensive switch from dirtier diesel compressed air to new cleaner electric compressed air. We are working with both Green Mountain Power and Efficiency Vermont to execute this project over the next few weeks so we are ready in mid November to blow snow more cleanly for our environment, but also more effectively and reliably, with less snowmaking down-time than the diesel compressors inevitably required. The final cog in the snowmaking wheel will come next year when the State of Vermont will approve Magic to expand the volume of our snowmaking pond. A major undertaking to say the least.. As soon as the new pipe work is done and the new compressors are in, we are committed to blowing more snow this season than ever before "this century" at Magic to provide a great mix of well-groomed terrain on both the east and west sides for all ability levels.

LODGE: The lodge is turning a "Magic red" on the outside and continues its makeover on the inside with a much more open, airy and vista-gazing design and feel for the upper lodge and Black Line Tavern. It's also a lot "greener" with the foam-barrier insulation project now completed at the roof level. There will be many good times ahead for our community at the lodge as we gather for apres ski fun, dinner, great live music and weddings. Look for a new, larger deck to be built next spring!


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## urungus (Oct 4, 2017)

Thanks for the update ... can’t wait for the season to begin!!   How is the yurt progressing?


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## slatham (Oct 4, 2017)

urungus said:


> Thanks for the update ... can’t wait for the season to begin!!   How is the yurt progressing?



That's a good question, maybe JamicaMan or Do Work will chime in on that. My GUESS is they have their hands full this fall (Green Lift, Carpet Lift, water pipe, new compressor(s), prepping Red & Black for inspection, and all the behind the scenes stuff us tourists have no clue about) and that it will be a spring install setting up for next summer.


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## Do Work (Oct 6, 2017)

No yurt until next year, our plate is more than full right now.  I can't wait to dial in Sunshine corner though, what a great place to have!


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## djspookman (Oct 6, 2017)

Do Work said:


> No yurt until next year, our plate is more than full right now.  I can't wait to dial in Sunshine corner though, what a great place to have!


Let us know, and we can help next year!


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## urungus (Oct 6, 2017)

Do Work said:
			
		

> No yurt until next year



Aw darn.  As John Cougar Mellencamp would say ... “yurts so good”


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## slatham (Oct 8, 2017)

Check out Magic Facebook page for some shots of Volunteer Day and some NEW glades being cut. Rumor has it several new glades/trails on map for this season pushing Magic to over 50.

Meanwhile the mountain was a beehive of activity: the mountain goats were weedwacking the steeps (once done 100% of the mountain will be cut and ready for snow); TWO excavators were working on tubing area for new underground power and comms, lighting, and better configuration for the tubing lift; Red was being worked on presumably for an upcoming inspection; and the Magic Carpet lift line was in mid stage of being excavated. 

Rumor has it the Carpet lift comes this week and the work on the all import snowmaking water lines in the base begins. Looks like Do Work will be welding away soon!

Amazing that all this work the new owners have done has been done in LESS than one year of ownership....


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## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 8, 2017)

It's very impressive how much has been done in such a short amount of time! The "Wow" factor is going to be huge this winter. Looking forward to spending a few days there this year!


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## Do Work (Oct 24, 2017)

slatham said:


> Check out Magic Facebook page for some shots of Volunteer Day and some NEW glades being cut. Rumor has it several new glades/trails on map for this season pushing Magic to over 50.
> 
> Meanwhile the mountain was a beehive of activity: the mountain goats were weedwacking the steeps (once done 100% of the mountain will be cut and ready for snow); TWO excavators were working on tubing area for new underground power and comms, lighting, and better configuration for the tubing lift; Red was being worked on presumably for an upcoming inspection; and the Magic Carpet lift line was in mid stage of being excavated.
> 
> ...





All correct- we are now over 50 named runs, with MANY more tree runs all over.  The new trail map will certainly share some nice flowing trees so that those who may not be super educated about our trees can still ski them top to bottom.  It's all about inclusiveness!  The mountain's silviculture program is really coming together and the benefits will be huge.

The tubing area got a complete redo this season including new and properly trenched/piped and buried lines for all electricity and comms.  It also got 3 new light posts, to be adorned with super bright LEDs which will service both tubing and the new terrain park area which was the old learning handle tow lift.  It also got a bunch of new drainage ditching and culverts, as well as new tubes (now including smaller kid tubes too!) and enough padding and bags for a third lane.  The only thing left to do in either area is to regrade the ground a bit more to minimize the amount of snow needed to open, which will likely come next year (no time right now) 

I have been welding like a maniac also- we've got new pipe welded in from the bottom of Carumba all the way to the East/West valve by the black chair, and the condo parking lot is being dug up as I type this to reroute the lines as efficiently as possible...  I can promise you though- the sheer volume of poor construction, rotten pipe, hilariously constructed neck-downs, no-reason corners on pipe that create inefficiencies are mind blowing.  While it's a real head scratched as to why they're all there and done in such a way, it's all coming out now, and will be no more than a bad memory in a relatively short time.  Basically though, we should be looking at a 25-30% higher volume and pressure on all of our water lines to go along with the huge boost in air with the new compressors- which are now fully aftercooled also.  Our old diesel units put out air that was around 110-115 degrees, whereas these put out air @ +3 degrees over ambient- which will provide a MASSIVE jump in marginal temp snowmaking abilities as well as overall production.

The Nelson Family Learning Center is getting very near completion.  We have already received the lift itself.  Final grading work on the upper section is being hammered out now, and the rest is just installation & electric.  It's going to look AMAZING, and the decision to culvert and bury all the drainage has given a ton more room over there to work with as well as a very clean and spacious look.  I am super excited to see that in action!     

There are so many more simultaneous projects going on that it's hard to even know where to stop talking about them, I could be here all day yapping about it.  Alas, I've got to get back into the pumphouse- lots to do and lots of routing pipe work do be done!  

Really though- thanks for the kind words everyone, all our guys are working super hard over crazy hours and nothing is going easily but it's coming and these are the most important changes we could possibly be making.  Every single day the mountain is looking better and better.  I can't wait to show everyone the final result, and I have never been more optimistic about Magic's capabilities and it's bright future.  Cheers to all of you for believing!


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 24, 2017)

hell yea, way to go


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2017)

sounds pretty great especially the new woods and updated map

Hoping for a good snow season, I'll be swapping Saturdays for Thursdays


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## IceEidolon (Oct 24, 2017)

If anyone doubts the difference aftercooled air makes, I felt a whole trail go from snow to rain (different Mtn) when our aftercoolers shut down. That's huge.

Also, as a relative novice in the trees I'm excited to try some of these new glades. This is shaping up to be a fantastic year, and I've really enjoyed the detailed updates.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## sugarbushskier (Oct 24, 2017)

Spoke to a couple of Magic's reps at the Hartford ski show this past weekend, and hell yeah, you could feel the optimism in our conversations.  So psyched to get back there again this season and check out the new glades and improved snow making coverage.


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## slatham (Oct 24, 2017)

Thanks for the update Do Work. You guys have been killing it!!


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Spoke to a couple of Magic's reps at the Hartford ski show this past weekend



Pretty small show huh. What did you pick for the free lift ticket? I got a Burke pass.

Magic Lady was nice enough to pass me a 2-for-1.


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## sugarbushskier (Oct 24, 2017)

Got a 2 fer as well and went w my wife who doesn't ski anymore, but is a good sport about supporting my passion.... lol.  I went local w a BE and Sundown tix as I've already got a few northern trips scheduled and paid for this year at Jay, Stowe & Sugarbush.  Figured I could keep an eye on the conditions and just go as weather permits.

Show was OK.  I worked the Boston show for years as a Ski Card rep so very familiar w the flow.  For a free show I have no complaints.


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2017)

Can't complain. Someone handed me, my wife and my father free passes to get in ($8 value). Only spent $4 parking and walked away with a Burke pass and a few deals.


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## Do Work (Oct 24, 2017)

IceEidolon said:


> If anyone doubts the difference aftercooled air makes, I felt a whole trail go from snow to rain (different Mtn) when our aftercoolers shut down. That's huge.
> 
> Also, as a relative novice in the trees I'm excited to try some of these new glades. This is shaping up to be a fantastic year, and I've really enjoyed the detailed updates.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk




It really is a massive difference.  Not only will it operate more efficiently every minute it’s on, but our target wetbulb will certainly gain a few degrees of effectiveness.  For a southern ski area, it’s an absolute must, and a game changer in every sense.  

Every project we’ve taken on this season was on a foundation level.  Honestly it’s pretty crazy we got it done for so long without all these things.  

I can’t even express in words how proud I am of this crew.  It truly is a labor of love for everyone and it shows in the final product!


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## Magicsnowboard (Oct 24, 2017)

Do Work said:


> It really is a massive difference.  Not only will it operate more efficiently every minute it’s on, but our target wetbulb will certainly gain a few degrees of effectiveness.  For a southern ski area, it’s an absolute must, and a game changer in every sense.
> 
> Every project we’ve taken on this season was on a foundation level.  Honestly it’s pretty crazy we got it done for so long without all these things.
> 
> I can’t even express in words how proud I am of this crew.  It truly is a labor of love for everyone and it shows in the final product!



DoWork, as always a huge thanks to you and your crew. I for one can’t wait to shred the Nelson learning area. Little MSB and I have been watching ski movies every morning to get ready.



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Do Work (Oct 25, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> DoWork, as always a huge thanks to you and your crew. I for one can’t wait to shred the Nelson learning area. Little MSB and I have been watching ski movies every morning to get ready.
> AlpineZone




We are every bit as excited to see you guys out there tearing it up as you are to do it!  :beer:


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## p_levert (Oct 25, 2017)

DoWork, is the green lift going to be ready by Xmas?  I am starting to get concerned...


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## Do Work (Oct 25, 2017)

p_levert said:


> DoWork, is the green lift going to be ready by Xmas?  I am starting to get concerned...





It'll be done the moment we're finished with it 

Not positive as to an exact date, but we are going to keep everyone posted when we have a date we feel is accurate.  The last thing we want to do is give bad info, but we are going to do our absolute best to communicate as details develop.


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## sugarbushskier (Oct 25, 2017)

Just the advantage of having both Red and Black chairs running this year will be awesome.  Green is icing on the cake!


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 25, 2017)

yea the green is really just a bonus. you don't need it to access anything. it just increases uphill capacity and takes some beginners off of red/black.


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## machski (Oct 25, 2017)

Cannot wait.  My Aunt and Uncle live 20 minutes away so with that lodging option, I look forward to my wife and I visiting this season for our first turns on the hill.  It's been on my list and it seems like the time has finally arrived!

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 26, 2017)

The improvements really sounding impressive. Can't wait to see it all in person this year!


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## Do Work (Nov 2, 2017)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> The improvements really sounding impressive. Can't wait to see it all in person this year!




Pics coming this week, we are crushing projects all over the hill and it's coming together fast!


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## slatham (Nov 3, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Pics coming this week, we are crushing projects all over the hill and it's coming together fast!



And when is the updated trail map coming out?


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 3, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Pics coming this week, we are crushing projects all over the hill and it's coming together fast!



:beer:


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## ShadyGrove (Nov 6, 2017)

slatham said:


> And when is the updated trail map coming out?



Will the new map incorporate your hand written version with the names of unnamed glades?


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## slatham (Nov 7, 2017)

ShadyGrove said:


> Will the new map incorporate your hand written version with the names of unnamed glades?



Hummmm, not sure who are in "real" life, but obviously a friend if I showed you my super secret, double probation, hand drawn map! 

Happily, only a couple of the glades will be revealed on the new "official" map (you can get a peak of it on the social media posts of Magic at the Ski Shows). Meanwhile, the secret glades are also growing, so all is good.

Can't wait to get in the woods in some deep pow!


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## Magicsnowboard (Nov 7, 2017)

Magic made the Wall Street Journal ... https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-5-best-kept-secret-ski-resorts-in-the-u-s-1510073294


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## slatham (Nov 7, 2017)

Yikes, the WSJ! 

I didn't realize how old Geoff was, nor that he was the founder of Magic and not Hans (what's that put him at, 120?). The things you learn in the WSJ!


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 8, 2017)

slatham said:


> Yikes, the WSJ!
> 
> I didn't realize how old Geoff was, nor that he was the founder of Magic and not Hans (what's that put him at, 120?). The things you learn in the WSJ!



I did find it, though!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## p_levert (Nov 9, 2017)

Boston ski show picture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DONss3NX0AA9uGS.jpg

I see new glades on the trail map!  Who is shown there?


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 12, 2017)

Chuck and Carol Ribinsky & Craig Moulton


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## slatham (Nov 12, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> I did find it, though!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



And all the Magic faithful are glad you did!


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 15, 2017)

Hats off to Magic for all the work happening at the mt.I will say though,there are a lot of ifs and hopes to come together to start the season.Good luck but thats quite a list.








READ MORE

THIS WEEK


THE LATEST


BIG Week Ahead 

​

It was great to see so many people stop by and see us at the Boston Ski Show this past weekend. Lots of folks were mentioning the Wall Street Journal article this weekend with Magic as one of the five "best-kept-secret" ski resorts in the US. The others, like Powder Mountain and Bridger Bowl, were all out West. WSJ titled Magic as "Chill Seeking" and there is no doubt that the vibe and skiers/riders here make Magic special--even beyond our kick-ass terrain.

​

As you know, there have been a number of resorts starting to open and making snow here in Vermont! We here are on a different timetable right now given the many Act 250 projects going on which were finally approved in late August for snowmaking, park lighting, beginner area/lift and mid-mtn Green Lift. Our goal is to blow snow as soon as we finish some key projects this month and open the mountain for skiing and riding on December 16th, about a week earlier than usual for Magic and two weekends ahead of the Christmas-New Years Holiday week break.

​

After meeting with Matt, our operations director today, here is a rough timetable on some key projects which will make for a very busy week ahead:

​

- Installation of our 3 new LED ligtht poles is now complete and tested as of last weekend! Our tubing/terrain park will now be lighted up beautifully until 7pm on Fridays and Saturdays (plus holidays) once the ski season begins.

​

- Installation and welding of new snowmaking pipe, both air and water lines, through the pump house to base area for the 300 and 400 lines continues into the week ahead in order to dramatically improve our operating/energy efficiencies (20%+ improvement). The latest estimate is that we will complete welding and bury the pipe by this weekend. That means snowmaking can commence with our fleet of fan guns by Sunday. If that occurs, we think we can lay enough snow for the Tubing Park to open up Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving holiday weekend! (To do this we will also be fixing the lake pump drive this week which currently has an electrical "short".)

​

- Installation of the new transformer for our switchover from diesel to more efficient electric compressed air will take place later this week and into next week. Fairpoint installed the necessary utility pole last week and Green Mountain Power will be hooking up the electric wires for service delivery to the pole this week. Then our electrical contractor will be wiring from the pole to our new transformer once it is set in place later this week. Finally, the two electric compressors are being modified to our specs out in the Midwest and will then be shipped across country by end of month so we can immediately start blowing snow with our new HKD tower and mobiles sled guns by December 1. While we work on getting the new electric compressor system up and running, Magic will be able to blow snow starting this Sunday with our fan gun fleet which does not need compressed air to operate. The base area, tubing/terrain parks, new beginner area and Show Off/Hocus Pocus trails all can be prepped with our fan guns. This important, complicated project is a little like "herding cats" with all the separate components, vendors, contractors and operations crew required, but it will reap big dividends for our future sustainability as a ski area and being a good steward of our environment and energy resources.

​

- Installation of the new Sunkids "magic carpet" style lift took big strides forward last week as the re-grading of the lift and beginner area along with new drainage was completed, wtth seed & hay put down. This week a pit will be dug and structure built at the top of the lift area for snow from skis on  conveyor to be deposited into the ground. In addition later this week/weekend, electric will be run to the top of the lift area to power the conveyor, plus the beginner area warming hut (think free hot chocolate).  Once all these pieces are done, then the lift will be installed by the end of the November (takes a day or two) so the new Nelson Famly Learning Center is ready to go for opening day on 12/16!

​

- Re-connectng our power lines to both summit chairs is scheduled for Tuesday of this week. Power has been out for well over a month now due to a line issue. This will enable us to put the finishing touches on a repair to a sheave train on tower 18 of Red Lift so we can get the lift final inspected this month. Power to the Black Chair also means we can get our key electrical engineer in to fix one faulty issue with the drive so we can operate the lift and complete our necessary line work over the next couple of weeks. Then we can get it inspected prior to opening day.

​


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## urungus (Nov 15, 2017)

Sounds like it will be crazy busy the next few weeks ... can’t wait for opening day!!  Can anyone post the text of the WSJ article?


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## Magicsnowboard (Nov 15, 2017)

OVER THE PAST cou*ple of years, the cor*po*rate mam*moths of the ski in*dus*try have been on a buy*ing spree. Vail Re*sorts added Ver*mont’s Stowe and British Co*lumbia’s Whistler Black*comb to a port*fo*lio that al*ready in*cluded Col*orado’s Vail, Beaver Creek and Breck*en*ridge, for a to*tal of 11 ski ar*eas; the con*sor*tium of As*pen Ski*ing*Com*pany and KSL Cap*i*tal Part*ners pur*chased such top-shelf des*ti*na*tions as Steam*boat, Colo., Mam*moth, Calif. and Deer Val*ley, Utah.

But for many skiers and snow*board*ers, big*ger op*er*a*tions aren’t nec*es*sar*ily bet*ter—es*pe*cially when re*sorts trade their in*di*vid*u*al*ity and quirks for slick per*sonas and sticker shock. For*tu*nately, an old-school spirit en*dures at sev*eral spots across the coun*try. “We want a ski ex*pe*ri*ence that’s rem*i*nis*cent of a golden age,” said Ge*off Hathe*way, founder of Ver*mont’s Magic Moun*tain, voic*ing a widely shared sen*ti*ment among in*die re*sorts. Then again, “re*sort” doesn’t quite ac*cu*rately de*scribe the un*der-the-radar fa*vorites listed here. The on-moun*tain ac*com*mo*da*tions tend to be bare-bones, when they ex*ist at all. You won’t find fancy spas or buzzy restau*rants, and vis*i*tors in fur-trimmed puffers are a rar*ity. What these ski ar*eas of*fer are re*lief from crowds, a com*mu*nity-minded at*ti*tude and friendly ser*vice. “It makes a big dif*fer*ence when skiers are run*ning the moun*tain, and not a board of di*rec*tors,” said Rosanne Haidor*fer-Pitcher of Wolf Creek, Colo.

-----


When this south*ern Ver*mont re*sort re*cently fell on hard times, a group of lo*cal in*vestors pur*chased it—more in*ter*ested, they said, in pur*su*ing a la*bor of love than profit. They closed the deal in No*vember 2016 and re*opened just a month later. Start*ing this sea*son, they’re rolling out a se*ries of planned up*grades, in*clud*ing bet*ter snow-mak*ing. The ter*rain is fairly de*mand*ing, with plenty of steep slopes and wooded trails, and the kind of nar*rower, wind*ing runs that used to be com*mon be*fore re*sorts started bull*doz*ing wide boule*vards in the 1990s. To ap*peal to less con*fi*dent skiers, the new own*ers plan to im*prove ac*cess to more for*giv*ing mid-moun*tain trails.

In*dica*tive of its more laid-back ethos, Magic Moun*tain opens just Thurs*day through Sun*day (and hol*i*days), but it also runs the lifts on any day at least 6 inches of snow fall. Add a same-day price of $69 a day for an adult lift ticket (com*pared with, say, Killing*ton’s $115) and an an*i*mated après-ski scene at the Black Line Tav*ern, and you’ve landed a clas*sic New Eng*land ex*pe*ri*ence. For overnight digs, the Magic Moun*tain Lodge is fairly ba*sic, but a 30-minute drive brings you to the lux*ury of the Equinox Golf Re*sort and Spa (from $199 a night, equinoxre*sort.*com).


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## ss20 (Nov 15, 2017)

Good luck with that list... 

Glad they're not being overly optimistic with a 12/16 opening.

Too be fair, Killington is replacing the cable of the Snowdon Triple...today...November 15.  Not like that's an important lift for the early season or anything...


----------



## urungus (Nov 15, 2017)

@Magicsnowboard ... thanks for posting the article!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 15, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Good luck with that list...
> 
> Glad they're not being overly optimistic with a 12/16 opening.
> 
> Too be fair, Killington is replacing the cable of the Snowdon Triple...today...November 15.  Not like that's an important lift for the early season or anything...



Oh there's no doubt it's an ambitious list and our multiple power outages have not helped. Just had a tree fall on our line to the Lake Pump House today and had GMP fixing the transformer. Done. And that enabled us to get in and fix the faulty VFD issue at the lake pump so we can actually pump water up to the main pump house (will need that to make snow I believe...)

Then we just heard yesterday from our supplier of the new electric compressors (as part of our switchover from diesel to electric for air) and they are way behind schedule for delivery. So, just called are old diesel compressor rental supplier and they will be shipping us some diesel rental units until the new electric ones come in. Costly, but we have to make the snow! 

So yes, lots of challenges and hurdles. Nothing comes easy here. Have to claw our way to an efficient, reliable, sustainable and economically sound system. But WE WILL GET THERE.

Not sure what will pop up next, but we are determined to tackle it. The operations crew here is a great mix of seasoned vets and new blood that gets what makes Magic different and just wants to make it better. Can't ask to go to work with a better bunch of people in all our departments every day. This not a business for those that lack nerve. And that's why we ski Magic anyway...


----------



## slatham (Nov 16, 2017)

Remember last year? You didn't even OWN the mountain yet! Fantastic progress especially given the unexpected gut punches.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 16, 2017)

Just little things JM, just little things. It's all going to come together fine and work out great!


----------



## IceEidolon (Nov 16, 2017)

If any ski area anywhere has ever been ahead of schedule all the way from planning summer upgrades to opening day, I've never heard of it. 

Y'all will make it, I'm sure. I hate to hear there's been more setbacks, but knowing there's a plan B and a great team to pull it off is heartening.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


----------



## skiuterine (Nov 20, 2017)

Tin said:


> Loving it!
> 
> http://chestertelegraph.org/2016/08/23/lucky-13-ski-mountain-investors-say-they-believe-in-magic/



:-oawesome!


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Nov 29, 2017)

THE LATEST
Magic in the News
​
Certainly this last month Magic has been in the news more (Wall Street Journal,  Boston Globe, ThisisInsider.com, Vermont Life), and for all the right reasons, so that's a good thing. The flip side is that some fear there might be too many people now interested in checking Magic out which could change things. Understandable, but I don't think a little change is something to fear. Rather it should hopefully be a sign that maybe this great ski hill can be around for many years to come--which believe me--is not a given in this difficult industry at a time when smaller, independent areas have a more difficult time competing. But, if we're smart about it and plan for it, we can maintain and strengthen the vibe, culture and ski experience we've come to love deeply here at Magic, even as we grow.

And here's how we'll do it.

1. Magic's classic fixed-grip lifts are here to stay. High-speed lifts have changed the landscape of skiing. Often times for the better, especially at places with big-time vertical like out West. But, there are some downsides to high-speed lifts: they dump an extraordinary amount of skiers/riders at the top of mountains very quickly, and they all go down together. This makes for more crowded slopes with more opportunity for accidents to occur, or angry incidents of people being cut off. Our fixed-grip system, even on busy days, naturally regulates the flow of traffic off the lift and disperses skiers evenly. We just can't put that many at the top all at once with a fixed double versus the high-speed 6-packs. This makes (for us) a more enjoyable, stress-free ski experience no matter how many new skiers come here. But that extra 5 minutes on the chair is a deterrent to some, and I will speak to that next.

2. Magic has a natural self-selecting customer model. What I mean by this is that many people won't even consider coming here because we DON'T have those high-speed lifts we just talked about. To each their own, right? We also don't make snow on every inch of this mountain or groom every trail. My god, we even have rocks and bare ground! So there's another whole set of people who will see that and opt-out on their own. Don't even start on the lack of high-end shopping, wave pools, clubs or movie theaters in the base area. Sorry, non-skiers/riders won't find a whole bunch else to do here beyond tubing and the Black Line Tavern unless they get in their cars and visit our wonderful towns (which is a fabulous thing to do!). But you get the idea, Magic is not the typical resort experience so there is a whole set of people who will again self-select themselves out of visiting here.

"Okay Geoff, but what about all those ski lovers like us who are simply into the sport and hanging out with other folks who are really into skiing but they hadn't heard about Magic before--until all this press? There's probably still a lot of them out there and won't we be jam-packed on Holidays or busy weekends once we get snow?" Well yes. That's the point of us spending money on improving things so we can get more people here which then allows us to pay back those investments and run a successful business. BUT, here's what we're going to do to insure we don't become overcrowded at our lifts, with huge 30-60 minute plus lines that happen elsewhere which would really effect the laid-back, less crowded experience we all enjoy:

3. Magic will limit day ticket sales to just 1500 tickets on any day of the season with our current lift system. We had a day last season on President's weekend where the lift lines at both summit lifts were at about 15 minutes and growing by 11:30 am. So we decided to stop selling tickets. That number was right around 1500 day tickets and we put a sign on the road that said we were full. Yes, we could have stuffed more people in here and made more money, but it would also have started to change dramatically the experience we desire here. In the future, when we add another fixed-grip lift (like Green Chair) then that number can go up a bit, but setting a ticket limit will remain. 

So that's our policy. Honestly, we hope we can have a few more days this year where we have to unfortunately turn people away (pro tip: good reason to buy tickets ahead of time on our website to reserve a spot and save money). That will mean we are doing well enough to survive; making our patrons happy; and, keeping our culture and vibe strong!

For the latest on projects and snowmaking during this dry and somwhat warmer period, be sure to click on the "read more" button below. Certainly, with only an inch of natural snow so far, we all need to "think snow" so it comes in bunches of feet by the holidays!
​
- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC
​


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## mriceyman (Nov 29, 2017)

[emoji106]


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## Not Sure (Nov 29, 2017)

My Favorite place in Pa. takes 9-10 min for 1K vert. I honestly don't mind the ride . Just make Damn sure you guys have some descent cushions on the seats! Hoping to check you guys out this year.


----------



## ShadyGrove (Nov 30, 2017)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> My Favorite place in Pa. takes 9-10 min for 1K vert. I honestly don't mind the ride . Just make Damn sure you guys have some descent cushions on the seats! Hoping to check you guys out this year.



Harden the F up, Bob!


----------



## urungus (Nov 30, 2017)

I purchased a Throwback Card.  Will I be affected by the 1500 ticket limit?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 30, 2017)

urungus said:


> I purchased a Throwback Card.  Will I be affected by the 1500 ticket limit?



Yes, showing up and purchasing a $29 ticket with the Throwback Card counts toward a day ticket sold. Same with Zero Commitment Card for 18-24 year old. But, just don't show up after 11a and you should be good on a busy day. It only happened once last year. But it could happen on MLK or President's weekends or after a major dump...


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## urungus (Nov 30, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes, showing up and purchasing a $29 ticket with the Throwback Card counts toward a day ticket sold. Same with Zero Commitment Card for 18-24 year old. But, just don't show up after 11a and you should be good on a busy day. It only happened once last year. But it could happen on MLK or President's weekends or after a major dump...



Thanks, good to know.  I usually show up on the early side so hopefully it won’t be an issue.  BTW, I should be picking up my Throwback Card at the counter during my first visit, correct (it won’t be mailed to me) ?


----------



## Not Sure (Nov 30, 2017)

ShadyGrove said:


> Harden the F up, Bob!



LOL , I’ll interpret that as we have plastic seats. I’ve lightened up my equipment since last year. Getting old sucks the circulation isn’t what it used to be.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 30, 2017)

urungus said:


> Thanks, good to know.  I usually show up on the early side so hopefully it won’t be an issue.  BTW, I should be picking up my Throwback Card at the counter during my first visit, correct (it won’t be mailed to me) ?



Yes, pictures to be taken when you come for the card! See you soon!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Nov 30, 2017)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> LOL , I’ll interpret that as we have plastic seats. I’ve lightened up my equipment since last year. Getting old sucks the circulation isn’t what it used to be.



Take Red Chair, softer cushions


----------



## urungus (Nov 30, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes, pictures to be taken when you come for the card! See you soon!



Thanks, can’t wait for opening day!!


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Dec 1, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes, showing up and purchasing a $29 ticket with the Throwback Card counts toward a day ticket sold. Same with Zero Commitment Card for 18-24 year old. But, just don't show up after 11a and you should be good on a busy day. It only happened once last year. But it could happen on MLK or President's weekends or after a major dump...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




JamicaMan, what will the bar limit be? 

With all the improvements, I am afraid a whole bunch of NYC/Westchester-private equity-d-bags will come in droves. I can just seem them now, bringing their snotty families with their Patagonia, carbon fiber gear, and taking two runs on the carpet while posting 10 pics to Instagram, then going to the bar and complaining that you don’t serve McCallan 18, all while their rescue dog wonders around outside. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## NYDB (Dec 1, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> JamicaMan, what will the bar limit be?
> 
> With all the improvements, I am afraid a whole bunch of NYC/Westchester-private equity-d-bags will come in droves. I can just seem them now, bringing their snotty families with their Patagonia, _*carbon fiber gear*_, and taking two runs on the carpet while posting 10 pics to Instagram, then going to the bar and complaining that you don’t serve McCallan 18, all while their rescue dog wonders around outside.
> 
> ...



Yes, the last thing they need is people with a lot of money to show up!


BTW, isn't that a carbon flagship in your avatar?


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Dec 1, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Yes, the last thing they need is people with a lot of money to show up!
> 
> 
> BTW, isn't that a carbon flagship in your avatar?



Um it’s my friends definitely not mine... 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 1, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> JamicaMan, what will the bar limit be?
> 
> With all the improvements, I am afraid a whole bunch of NYC/Westchester-private equity-d-bags will come in droves. I can just seem them now, bringing their snotty families with their Patagonia, carbon fiber gear, and taking two runs on the carpet while posting 10 pics to Instagram, then going to the bar and complaining that you don’t serve McCallan 18, all while their rescue dog wonders around outside.
> 
> ...



hi! Brooklyn douchebag here. don't worry. that will never ever happen. i mention magic down here and people are like "huh?". the typical ny douchebag does not want the product that magic is offering. they want gondolas and mccallan 18 as you said, and perfect grooming. despite recent press coverage, magic remains totally unknown down here, and only still only appeals to more core skiers, of which we are severely lacking down in nyc. the droves will stay at okemo Stratton and killington. and people who come to magic and like it are the people who belong at magic.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 1, 2017)

KustyTheKlown said:


> hi! Brooklyn douchebag here. don't worry. that will never ever happen. i mention magic down here and people are like "huh?". the typical ny douchebag does not want the product that magic is offering. they want gondolas and mccallan 18 as you said, and perfect grooming. despite recent press coverage, magic remains totally unknown down here, and only still only appeals to more core skiers, of which we are severely lacking down in nyc. the droves will stay at okemo Stratton and killington. and people who come to magic and like it are the people who belong at magic.



...And where do you belong?


----------



## Hawk (Dec 1, 2017)

Wow, I wonder what kind of stereotype he has for us Massholes headed to Magic?  LOL


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 1, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> ...And where do you belong?



wherever the woods are deep and the craft beer flows, my man


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 1, 2017)

KustyTheKlown said:


> hi! Brooklyn douchebag here. don't worry. that will never ever happen. i mention magic down here and people are like "huh?". the typical ny douchebag does not want the product that magic is offering. they want gondolas and mccallan 18 as you said, and perfect grooming. despite recent press coverage, magic remains totally unknown down here, and only still only appeals to more core skiers, of which we are severely lacking down in nyc. the droves will stay at okemo Stratton and killington. and people who come to magic and like it are the people who belong at magic.



I've seen these douchebags & their mangy mutt in person. 




Spewing all over the IG


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Dec 1, 2017)

RustyGroomer said:


> I've seen these douchebags & their mangy mutt in person.
> 
> View attachment 22880
> View attachment 22881
> ...



See what I mean!!!! No jeans, no Mountain Dew skis, JamicaMan you’re ruining the place! 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ShadyGrove (Dec 1, 2017)

Hawk said:


> Wow, I wonder what kind of stereotype he has for us Massholes headed to Magic?  LOL



Just don't be one of those freeheeling Masshole types.  Magic has that stereotype covered already.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 1, 2017)

KustyTheKlown said:


> wherever the woods are deep and the craft beer flows, my man



That is right where I would be as well


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 1, 2017)

KustyTheKlown said:


> hi! Brooklyn douchebag here. don't worry. that will never ever happen.
> ...*and people who come to magic and like it are the people who belong at magic*.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Dec 1, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> JamicaMan, what will the bar limit be?
> 
> With all the improvements, I am afraid a whole bunch of NYC/Westchester-private equity-d-bags will come in droves. I can just seem them now, bringing their snotty families with their Patagonia, carbon fiber gear, and taking two runs on the carpet while posting 10 pics to Instagram, then going to the bar and complaining that you don’t serve McCallan 18, all while their rescue dog wonders around outside.
> 
> ...



Back to the original question about a bar limit. Anyone who orders a mojito during the Après ski rush will be immediately removed from the premises...


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Dec 2, 2017)

JamaicaMan said:


> Back to the original question about a bar limit. Anyone who orders a mojito during the Après ski rush will be immediately removed from the premises...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Fair policy. Going up next weekend to move into the house. Looking forward to another great season! 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## AbominableSnowman (Dec 2, 2017)

On a positive note, this post [from Geoff] is excellent: it clearly states the current situation, clearly states the known issues, and clearly states the intended approach for resolution of those issues.  It also provides some insight into the thought process, and the considerations, that went into the decision-making process - without any condescension, obfuscation, denial or sugar-coating.  

Is there any room for improvement? Sure, nothing is perfect; for example, there was no mention of "free beer"...

Seriously, though, hopefully other ownership groups read that posting and consider using it as a example of how to communicate effectively. Well done, Geoff.

--------------------

THE LATEST
Magic in the News
​
Certainly this last month Magic has been in the news more (Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, ThisisInsider.com, Vermont Life), and for all the right reasons, so that's a good thing. The flip side is that some fear there might be too many people now interested in checking Magic out which could change things. Understandable, but I don't think a little change is something to fear. Rather it should hopefully be a sign that maybe this great ski hill can be around for many years to come--which believe me--is not a given in this difficult industry at a time when smaller, independent areas have a more difficult time competing. But, if we're smart about it and plan for it, we can maintain and strengthen the vibe, culture and ski experience we've come to love deeply here at Magic, even as we grow.

And here's how we'll do it.

1. Magic's classic fixed-grip lifts are here to stay. High-speed lifts have changed the landscape of skiing. Often times for the better, especially at places with big-time vertical like out West. But, there are some downsides to high-speed lifts: they dump an extraordinary amount of skiers/riders at the top of mountains very quickly, and they all go down together. This makes for more crowded slopes with more opportunity for accidents to occur, or angry incidents of people being cut off. Our fixed-grip system, even on busy days, naturally regulates the flow of traffic off the lift and disperses skiers evenly. We just can't put that many at the top all at once with a fixed double versus the high-speed 6-packs. This makes (for us) a more enjoyable, stress-free ski experience no matter how many new skiers come here. But that extra 5 minutes on the chair is a deterrent to some, and I will speak to that next.

2. Magic has a natural self-selecting customer model. What I mean by this is that many people won't even consider coming here because we DON'T have those high-speed lifts we just talked about. To each their own, right? We also don't make snow on every inch of this mountain or groom every trail. My god, we even have rocks and bare ground! So there's another whole set of people who will see that and opt-out on their own. Don't even start on the lack of high-end shopping, wave pools, clubs or movie theaters in the base area. Sorry, non-skiers/riders won't find a whole bunch else to do here beyond tubing and the Black Line Tavern unless they get in their cars and visit our wonderful towns (which is a fabulous thing to do!). But you get the idea, Magic is not the typical resort experience so there is a whole set of people who will again self-select themselves out of visiting here.

"Okay Geoff, but what about all those ski lovers like us who are simply into the sport and hanging out with other folks who are really into skiing but they hadn't heard about Magic before--until all this press? There's probably still a lot of them out there and won't we be jam-packed on Holidays or busy weekends once we get snow?" Well yes. That's the point of us spending money on improving things so we can get more people here which then allows us to pay back those investments and run a successful business. BUT, here's what we're going to do to insure we don't become overcrowded at our lifts, with huge 30-60 minute plus lines that happen elsewhere which would really effect the laid-back, less crowded experience we all enjoy:

3. Magic will limit day ticket sales to just 1500 tickets on any day of the season with our current lift system. We had a day last season on President's weekend where the lift lines at both summit lifts were at about 15 minutes and growing by 11:30 am. So we decided to stop selling tickets. That number was right around 1500 day tickets and we put a sign on the road that said we were full. Yes, we could have stuffed more people in here and made more money, but it would also have started to change dramatically the experience we desire here. In the future, when we add another fixed-grip lift (like Green Chair) then that number can go up a bit, but setting a ticket limit will remain. 

So that's our policy. Honestly, we hope we can have a few more days this year where we have to unfortunately turn people away (pro tip: good reason to buy tickets ahead of time on our website to reserve a spot and save money). That will mean we are doing well enough to survive; making our patrons happy; and, keeping our culture and vibe strong!

For the latest on projects and snowmaking during this dry and somwhat warmer period, be sure to click on the "read more" button below. Certainly, with only an inch of natural snow so far, we all need to "think snow" so it comes in bunches of feet by the holidays!
​
- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC


----------



## 56fish (Dec 3, 2017)

Geoff, Steve @ jpr: brothers from different mothers. :beer:


----------



## Do Work (Dec 13, 2017)

Wow, well that storm certainly was productive!  Guessing we got around 14-16" at the top, but it is SUPER fluffy.  I would expect low angle terrain to ski very nicely, but steeper stuff has been reported as bony as soon as you make a harder turn.  

Who's coming opening day??  Should be some really nice green/blue terrain open with natural snow and we've got The Silks playing Saturday night, and they are a KILLER band!


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 13, 2017)

great to see magic blanketed with snow for opening. even if you guys cant drop all the ropes, the optics of a snowy scene are good for business and morale


----------



## urungus (Dec 13, 2017)

What trails will be open this weekend?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Dec 13, 2017)

urungus said:


> What trails will be open this weekend?



Here's where we are. 

- Upper Magic Carpet totally blown in from Top of Red Chair down to Medium
- Medium partially blown in. Probably finish that up tonight into tomorrow.
- Guns lined up from Wand at Sunshine Corner down to Show Off so we will get started tonight on Wand when we can turn back on the system at 9pm.
- Show Off partially blown in and has guns lined up there for ignition tonight
- Tubey Land got some fan gun love today and is pretty close to being done. (Not a trail but there you go)

So that will be the snowmaking trail line-up for the weekend. Solid fun intermediate way down.

In terms of natural snow trails, we are looking at low angle east siders like Up Your Sleeve, White Out, Betwixt, Enchanted Forest, Pixie Dust glade, Lower Magic Carpet, Vertigo.

As Matt said, the snow from both  Saturday and Tuesday is very fluffy. T-Zone was bony.

Another storm next week and we are set, though, for lots more terrain and woods. 

Snowmaking crew will be hitting it hard whenever temps allow!


----------



## urungus (Dec 13, 2017)

Thanks JamaicaMan


----------



## p_levert (Dec 13, 2017)

On the Twitter feed, it was mentioned that George passed away.  Was it George who was going to rebuild the green chair as well?


----------



## urungus (Dec 14, 2017)

I didn’t see it mentioned here ... For those who are interested, the revised trail map (including a few previously unmarked glades) has been posted to the official Magic Site:  https://www.magicmtn.com/mountain


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 14, 2017)

Do Work said:


> Who's coming opening day??  Should be some really nice green/blue terrain open with natural snow and we've got The Silks playing Saturday night, and they are a KILLER band!



Can't wait.  Anyone else?


----------



## slatham (Dec 14, 2017)

Chomping at the bit. I will be there sometime Saturday. 

p_levert, yes, George was working on the Green lift. RIP. 

New trail map, several new glades (some new to map, one that is actually new) and there's a "new" trail too......


----------



## Do Work (Dec 16, 2017)

Man, what a great opening day!  Reports are coming back that the ungroomed natural stuff is PERFECT.  I've heard from several that Up Your Sleeve is the trail of the day but that all of the lower angle areas are skiing phenomenally.  Thankfully that fluffy pow consolidated a bit before opening, it's working out wonderfully.  Light crowds and great conditions, good trail count and happy customers everywhere!  Happy 17/18 season, everyone- it's going to be one for the books!


----------



## AmmergauerTele (Dec 17, 2017)

Love me some Magic.  Great to hear, hope you guys have an amazing season!


----------



## NYDB (Dec 17, 2017)

Looking at the pics on tgr= punching myself for not going up.  Fucking idiot


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 18, 2017)

i'll put a few here so you don't have to cross over.


----------



## slatham (Dec 18, 2017)

Great opening day, and December 16th no less! Impressive seeing 16 guns blasting too.

Congrats to the Magic team - off to a great start!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 18, 2017)

slatham said:


> Impressive seeing 16 guns blasting too.




The best pic i took all weekend was this one.  Not great by any stretch but check out that snow & fire power.  Not often if ever you see this @ Magic.  Impressive is right.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 20, 2017)

Any ideas of what survived the mini melt?  

hoping there is enough left to make friday snow enjoyable


----------



## slatham (Dec 20, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Any ideas of what survived the mini melt?
> 
> hoping there is enough left to make friday snow enjoyable



Magic Outing Club posted a pic today on FB of skinning tracks and it looked like the base is there just more "consolidated". If this Friday/Saturday storm works out as a net gainer - which is what it looks like now - and we get the Christmas miracle storm then all will be good.


----------



## slatham (Dec 20, 2017)

slatham said:


> Great opening day, and December 16th no less! Impressive seeing 16 guns blasting too.
> 
> Congrats to the Magic team - off to a great start!



I want to apologize to Magic and Do Work for under reporting the gun count. It was 16 HKD air/water guns AND 5 fan guns for a grand total of 21!


----------



## ShadyGrove (Dec 20, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Any ideas of what survived the mini melt?
> 
> hoping there is enough left to make friday snow enjoyable



I suspect by Friday they have have Carpet, Trick, Showoff, and Hocus Pocus open.  The natural trails may have coverage but the conditions may be coral-like.


----------



## Do Work (Dec 20, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Any ideas of what survived the mini melt?
> 
> hoping there is enough left to make friday snow enjoyable





Snowmaking trails are fatter than they've ever been.  Natural snow has mostly consolidated and frozen, which will make an ideal base.  We lost some in rocky spots where the chocolate chips are showing through, but it looks to stay cold until we get snow hopefully Friday night into Saturday.  If that's the case, skiing and riding will be among the best it's ever been here in December.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 21, 2017)

Should be a great day friday once accumulations start piling up.  

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## NYDB (Dec 22, 2017)

Magic is big time now.  Mid day grooming n shit.  

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## ShadyGrove (Dec 22, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Magic is big time now.  Mid day grooming n shit.



Brownie don't sleep.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 29, 2017)

How about posting snow conditions on the site? I can guess, but it's nice to hear how it is up there from a straight shooter before you go.

Works both ways... I might assume you're icy when you aren't!


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## WoodCore (Dec 29, 2017)

I’ll be there tomorrow and will post a report with pics! 


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 29, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> How about posting snow conditions on the site? I can guess, but it's nice to hear how it is up there from a straight shooter before you go.
> 
> Works both ways... I might assume you're icy when you aren't!



It is really good everywhere. Not much fresh snow, but I saw people heading into really hairy woods so it must be good there. Everything edgeable and a lot open. Very busy today, especially the bar! 

I just cannot imagine anyone disappointed tomorrow. No lines today but apparently they are ready to go with the black lift if needed.

This must have been as big a weekday as Magic has had in a while, let alone a 5 degree weekday. Hundreds of people with day tickets and smiles!


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## IceEidolon (Dec 29, 2017)

I'm debating driving up and car camping on my days off. It sounds like it would be worth it!

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## bdfreetuna (Dec 29, 2017)

JoeB-Z said:


> It is really good everywhere. Not much fresh snow, but I saw people heading into really hairy woods so it must be good there. Everything edgeable and a lot open. Very busy today, especially the bar!
> 
> I just cannot imagine anyone disappointed tomorrow. No lines today but apparently they are ready to go with the black lift if needed.
> 
> This must have been as big a weekday as Magic has had in a while, let alone a 5 degree weekday. Hundreds of people with day tickets and smiles!



Pretty good. If you can deliver me an 8" core sample of the base snow for my close examination I'll be there tomorrow.

Think I'll be riding the Skye Ship tomorrow but be up there soon for sure!


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 29, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> Pretty good. If you can deliver me an 8" core sample of the base snow for my close examination I'll be there tomorrow.
> 
> Think I'll be riding the Skye Ship tomorrow but be up there soon for sure!



The most I can say is I didn't bother to touch up my edges tonight. That is just a 10 minute frigid trip to the garage.

I did see a closed and glazed trail (the lower part of Witch). I shouted my appreciation to a yeoman patroller that was breaking that crap up with the old fashioned sidestep method. That is work.


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## eatskisleep (Dec 30, 2017)

I'll be there tomorrow!


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## NYDB (Dec 31, 2017)

Great day today.  Natural terrain was riding well.  The inch or 2 of new snow really freshened it up.  Fun day with fam.  Bar was jamming when i rolled out.  

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## Euler (Dec 31, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Great day today.  Natural terrain was riding well.  The inch or 2 of new snow really freshened it up.  Fun day with fam.  Bar was jamming when i rolled out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using AlpineZone mobile app


Agreed!  I was looking for some mellow trees and found them in "The Hallows"  plenty of snow in there, but the stuff not yet tracked out was pretty consolidated...not icy at all, but tough to turn in.  Other highlights were Talisman....loaded with small, mellow bumps top to bottom; and Twilight Zone....just enough snow to be able to get a flow going, but not enough snow to quite cover ALL the rocks.  Really fun everywhere we skied.  I was surprised how tolerable the temps were.  No wind plus pure sunshine helped with that!  I'm super happy with my decision to buy a pass at Magic this year....I've been able to use it for three fabulous days there already and it's still December (for a few more hours :grin: ) Happy New Year All!!


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 31, 2017)

Euler said:


> Agreed!  I was looking for some mellow trees and found them in "The Hallows"  plenty of snow in there, but the stuff not yet tracked out was pretty consolidated...not icy at all, but tough to turn in.  Other highlights were Talisman....loaded with small, mellow bumps top to bottom; and Twilight Zone....just enough snow to be able to get a flow going, but not enough snow to quite cover ALL the rocks.  Really fun everywhere we skied.  I was surprised how tolerable the temps were.  No wind plus pure sunshine helped with that!  I'm super happy with my decision to buy a pass at Magic this year....I've been able to use it for three fabulous days there already and it's still December (for a few more hours :grin: ) Happy New Year All!!



It’s amazing what a lift design to be protected by trees will do for the comfort on the way up. Not sure what was going through the minds of every every hill when they took all the trees down.


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## Rowsdower (Dec 31, 2017)

Magicsnowboard said:


> It’s amazing what a lift design to be protected by trees will do for the comfort on the way up. Not sure what was going through the minds of every every hill when they took all the trees down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



That's more an age thing I think. Magic's liftlines are all the old original lines. None of this clear cutting junk that became popular in the 80s. But back in the day thats the way pretty much all NE mountains were: narrow. I guess to preserve snow.

I guess the exception would be Black Line. Black Magic is nice and narrow but once you come down onto Black Line proper its a wide open clear cut. IMO I like Black Magic more than Black Line itself because of that.


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## slatham (Dec 31, 2017)

Rowsdower said:


> That's more an age thing I think. Magic's liftlines are all the old original lines. None of this clear cutting junk that became popular in the 80s. But back in the day thats the way pretty much all NE mountains were: narrow. I guess to preserve snow.
> 
> I guess the exception would be Black Line. Black Magic is nice and narrow but once you come down onto Black Line proper its a wide open clear cut. IMO I like Black Magic more than Black Line itself because of that.



More to it than just narrow. Black Lift is low, and tight to lookers right to the tree line to minimize predominant West to Northwest winds. Of course Red is low and tight all around running up a corridor of tall trees. 

Great skiing at Magic this holiday season. They are set up to deliver some serious goods if we can get a storm or two. Hats off to Geoff, Matt and crew.


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## makimono (Dec 31, 2017)

Today was my first time up to magic this year. Really impressed at the dozens of little (and some big) improvements everywhere you look, very cool.

I had my K2 5500's running sooo fast this morning with the perfect wax and when I went to click in for the competition one of the 30 year old marker heels broke in half  still managed a squirrelly 62 mph on the Lhasa Pow's with all temp wax from last season. I think the top speed was 70 even. Fun time!


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 1, 2018)

makimono said:


> Today was my first time up to magic this year. Really impressed at the dozens of little (and some big) improvements everywhere you look, very cool.
> 
> I had my K2 5500's running sooo fast this morning with the perfect wax and when I went to click in for the competition one of the 30 year old marker heels broke in half  still managed a squirrelly 62 mph on the Lhasa Pow's with all temp wax from last season. I think the top speed was 70 even. Fun time!



Curious where you hit such high speeds at Magic


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## urungus (Jan 1, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Curious where you hit such high speeds at Magic



Entrants are speed-timed by radar over the course (Lower Black Line to Hocus Pocus)

https://www.magicmtn.com/events-1/tuck-it


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 1, 2018)

urungus said:


> Entrants are speed-timed by radar over the course (Lower Black Line to Hocus Pocus)
> 
> https://www.magicmtn.com/events-1/tuck-it



Ha! Awesome. Surprised they don't finish it off with a Chinese Downhill.


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## makimono (Jan 1, 2018)

Yes! It is zee only way...Chinese Downhill


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 2, 2018)

Here's a link to the run down of mph times. About 75 entrants on a frigid day for Tuck It! This is a keeper event for years to come! https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/8d4d8a_eb3d1e6cbcd64dd38b9ed708c554a7a0.pdf


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## ShadyGrove (Jan 2, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Here's a link to the run down of mph times. About 75 entrants on a frigid day for Tuck It! This is a keeper event for years to come! https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/8d4d8a_eb3d1e6cbcd64dd38b9ed708c554a7a0.pdf
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



How did the quaffing comp go or was it delayed due to the cold temps?  Seems like a better springtime challenge.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 2, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> How did the quaffing comp go or was it delayed due to the cold temps?  Seems like a better springtime challenge.



Moved it indoors, post-awards for TUCK IT. Both these highly skilled events were all about speed.


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## slatham (Jan 2, 2018)

As a side note, the groomed way down that Brownie did - Wizard/Broomstick/Upper Black Line/Unnamed crossover to Heart of Magician/Link/Lower Black Line (with solid man made base for Tuck It) was a great and unique cruiser! 

JM/DW, with half of Black Line done, you going for the rest soon? Witch to Back Line!


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## ShadyGrove (Jan 2, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Moved it indoors, post-awards for TUCK IT. Both these highly skilled events were all about speed. &#55356;&#57211;



Video proof required!

Oh and slatham is correct about that fun groomed way down.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 5, 2018)

Rowsdower said:


> That's more an age thing I think. Magic's liftlines are all the old original lines. None of this clear cutting junk that became popular in the 80s. But back in the day thats the way pretty much all NE mountains were: narrow. I guess to preserve snow.
> 
> I guess the exception would be Black Line. Black Magic is nice and narrow but once you come down onto Black Line proper its a wide open clear cut. IMO I like Black Magic more than Black Line itself because of that.



Black (Blue Liftline) had trees skiers right.  The clear cutting BS of the 80's did not escape Magic.  Witch, Tali, Blue Liftline were all cut wide.  Black chairs were added to make it a triple.  Growing up Talisman scared us more than any other trail.  It was narrow, steep, & looong.


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## skimagic (Jan 5, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> Black (Blue Liftline) had trees skiers right.  The clear cutting BS of the 80's did not escape Magic.  Witch, Tali, Blue Liftline were all cut wide.



The top of witch is always nasty, maybe that's why - cut into the hill at odd angle.  I don't mind the width of black line, cool ledges to play on.


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## Sorcerer (Jan 5, 2018)

Sorcerer was as narrow as they come until they put snowmaking on it and cut it wider


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## ss20 (Jan 6, 2018)

I went to Magic for the first time this season Thursday... great snow.  Terrain is in great shape.  Had a great time for $29.  

At the risk of being burned alive at the stake by AZ for the crimes of "un-optimistic vibes towards thy Magic Mountain"... that Green chair is not getting finished this year.  Hope no one's holding their breath.  It's just towers and terminal frames.  No bullwheels or anything.


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## urungus (Jan 6, 2018)

slatham said:


> As a side note, the groomed way down that Brownie did - Wizard/Broomstick/Upper Black Line/Unnamed crossover to Heart of Magician/Link/Lower Black Line (with solid man made base for Tuck It) was a great and unique cruiser!



Which direction does “Link” go ... I am confused ... in slatham’s comments above Link is going from Heart of Magician to Black Line.  But in this thread from last season slatham indicates that Link goes in the opposite direction, from Black Line to Heart of Magician.  http://forums.alpinezone.com/showth...in-West-Side?highlight=Easiest+Magic+Mountain



slatham said:


> Sometimes Broomstick is groomed all the way down to Black Line, and sometimes that grooming continues down skiers left of Black Line and cuts down Link back into Lower Heart of Magician.



It is not clear on trail map either, the line for Link is nearly horizontal.  I guess is slants very slightly from right to left (Heart of Magician to Black Line)?


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## skimagic (Jan 7, 2018)

Link goes from BL to HoM. Meets a crossover trail (bail out) that goes back to BL. Bail out contination not shown on the new map. Its  A lower link.


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## slatham (Jan 7, 2018)

skimagic said:


> Link goes from BL to HoM. Meets a crossover trail (bail out) that goes back to BL. Bail out contination not shown on the new map. Its  A lower link.



Yes confusing, and I thought I knew the mountain! Broomstick, Black Line, take a left down Link to HOM (comes into HOM in same location as Bail Out comes in from Talisman), ski HOM down to the unnamed crossover  (a continuation of Bail Out) back into Black Line.

To make it more confusing, that last crossover actually has two parts, one allowing you to ski FROM Black Line into HOM, and one that goes from HOM into BL.

Oh, and one more. Further up BL, just down hill from where Broomstick comes into BL, there is another, unnamed crossover going from BL into HOM. I am sure this was to allow those who strayed all the way down Broomstick and accidentally found themselves on BL a way to get back to HOM and live to ski another day.

Needless to say, I think I need to study the mountain a bit more - I'll start next weekend!


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## Rowsdower (Jan 7, 2018)

Red Line is best line.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 7, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I went to Magic for the first time this season Thursday... great snow.  Terrain is in great shape.  Had a great time for $29.
> 
> At the risk of being burned alive at the stake by AZ for the crimes of "un-optimistic vibes towards thy Magic Mountain"... that Green chair is not getting finished this year.  Hope no one's holding their breath.  It's just towers and terminal frames.  No bullwheels or anything.



Yes, we've said Green is a 2018-19 project after the death of our key contractor and have mentioned that in multiple updates. We can't work on it during the winter and must contract another lift installer to work with us come spring.


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## urungus (Jan 7, 2018)

slatham said:


> Yes confusing, and I thought I knew the mountain! Broomstick, Black Line, take a left down Link to HOM (comes into HOM in same location as Bail Out comes in from Talisman), ski HOM down to the unnamed crossover  (a continuation of Bail Out) back into Black Line.
> 
> To make it more confusing, that last crossover actually has two parts, one allowing you to ski FROM Black Line into HOM, and one that goes from HOM into BL.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info ... I took the “live to ski another day” route today (run #3) ... my first time down Broomstick!  Was fun zigging and zagging back and forth between the runs.  Conditions were great, the sun was out, only thing missing was the bar at Sunshine Corner :smile:


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## slatham (Jan 8, 2018)

urungus said:


> Thanks for the info ... I took the “live to ski another day” route today (run #3) ... my first time down Broomstick!  Was fun zigging and zagging back and forth between the runs.  Conditions were great, the sun was out, only thing missing was the bar at Sunshine Corner :smile:
> 
> View attachment 23011



Nice. I see you also hit Sorcerer, one my many favorite trails at Magic!


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 10, 2018)

Sorcerer said:


> Sorcerer was as narrow as they come until they put snowmaking on it and cut it wider



Sure was.  

Magic in the headlines again.

http://www.manchesterjournal.com/stories/magic-experiences-record-start-to-ski-season,529026

Pic me.  Skier TIN


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## NYDB (Jan 13, 2018)

fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk that was terrible


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 13, 2018)

And where is better? I just skied four runs for conditioning. In fact it was good for an edging clinic!

I think they were running the new electric compressor when they started making snow as the day went on. And people were working on the Magic Carpet. 

It was terrible to see the damage but I can't think driving North tomorrow will help.


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## slatham (Jan 13, 2018)

January 13th and we're complaining about it being "gone" at Magic. Never in recent history has there been anything to be "gone" at Magic on this date. Yeah it f'ing sucks, but we've had several epic years over the past 6 or so years and NONE of the them started before Feb 1! I want to say #wintersnotover but the reality is #winterhasntstartedyet! Keep the faith.......

That said, I bet it's up and down and challenging for the next couple of weeks before things swing back big time once into Feb.

THINK SNOW!


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 13, 2018)

*Don't whine, ski*

The guns were fired up ASAP. Brownie will be crawling tonight. It will be better than today.



slatham said:


> January 13th and we're complaining about it being "gone" at Magic. Never in recent history has there been anything to be "gone" at Magic on this date. Yeah it f'ing sucks, but we've had several epic years over the past 6 or so years and NONE of the them started before Feb 1! I want to say #wintersnotover but the reality is #winterhasntstartedyet! Keep the faith.......
> 
> That said, I bet it's up and down and challenging for the next couple of weeks before things swing back big time once into Feb.
> 
> THINK SNOW!


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## urungus (Jan 13, 2018)

The trail report lists Upper Wizard as open, but Lower Wizard (and all other west side trails) closed.  How are you supposed to return to the lodge when you get the the end of Upper Wizard?


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 14, 2018)

urungus said:


> The trail report lists Upper Wizard as open, but Lower Wizard (and all other west
> 
> That was wrong. One way down on Saturday. Wand was shit off and the race team was using Hokus Pokus with snowmobiles.
> 
> Plus the chute on Upper Wizard could not have survived as it sort of sucked last week with some pronounced rocks.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 14, 2018)

Wanted to make it there Thursday but too much work on my plate. It's early season though and it was a short thaw luckily.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 15, 2018)

So, what kind of shape is the rest of the mountain in?  Does 6-8" from this mid-week storm open up some good stuff?


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## Do Work (Jan 15, 2018)

tnt1234 said:


> So, what kind of shape is the rest of the mountain in?  Does 6-8" from this mid-week storm open up some good stuff?




Of course.  There is frozen base down most places righ tnow, and while it's there it's not skiable.  It will however, help to open some more low angle terrain like Sleeve, lower carpet, vertigo etc. Only time will tell but I think we've got a decent shot at opening some things up depending on what actually happens.


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## SIKSKIER (Jan 19, 2018)

Nice to see this.Go Magic!

THE LATEST
The Dawn of a New Snowmaking Era at Magic!
Air and water are key to making snow (and cold weather).
We just upped our game big-time with air. We've now replaced two 1600 CFM diesel compressors with two 2425 CFM electric compressors. And, for the 1st-time ever, we were making snow on Carumba and Lower Red last night on 100% electric-powered air!
Magic's snowmaking system now has dramatically upped its available air pressure to shoot water out of snowguns to make snow. That means more guns on at any given time and quicker coverage of skiable terrain. And, with the new Ingersoll Rand compressors, it's also "air-cooled" out of the system so it's quicker to turn water into snow versus the warmer air coming out of the diesel-powered units. And, because we're running electric, we're lowering our carbon footprint and removing fossil fuels from the snowmaking process (while reducing our operating costs).
While this project was a very large capital outlay involving partnerships with Green Mountain Power and Efficiency Vermont, the payback for Magic and our skiers will be huge in terms of a more efficient, more powerful and more relaible snowmaking system. It truly represents a major step forward for our size mountain, and we believe makes for a more sustainable ski area into the future. 
Next summer, we tackle the water supply--doubling the volume of the pond. 
The ski season this year has seen solid progress on our 5-year plan, but we almost can't wait until all the improvements in our snowmaking system will be ready-to-go from Day 1 next season. In the meantime, our neighbors will enjoy quieter compressors and cleaner air, and all our skiers will soon get to see the West Side snowmaking begin with these new compressors after this mini warm-up over the next few days clears out!
Thanks to the leadership of Matt Cote, who spearheaded this project, Magic is making a giant-size leap for a small area. 
And, here's a link to another article on the type of place Magic is now being recognized for and the unique "old school" experience we are seeking to sustain and build. But to do that, sometimes you need to invest in "new school" technologies. Snowmaking is one of those critical investments. The new Sunkids magic-carpet style lift for our new Nelson Family beginner area is another. And, that debuts on Saturday!
Think Man-made Snow!


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## IceEidolon (Jan 19, 2018)

3,200 CFM is worth (depending on nozzle setup) about 32 new HKD Impulses (480 GPM at startup) or five Ratnik Baby SG2 guns flowing around 100 GPM.
4825 CFM gives nearly 50 HKD Impulses at 735 gpm on startup, or seven Ratniks plus a bit extra air flowing 140 GPM.

Magic might have their Impulses set up to flow less air than the ones where I work, so the numbers might be even better. Regardless, between the HKDs and the Halo/Diablo and Areco fans, Magic should be close to maximum water flow at startup on certain routes (IIRC around 1000 GPM). And *that* means the pond can turn into base depth more quickly, and at much warmer temperatures, than ever before. This air change almost doubles their output at 25 degrees wetbulb.

Aftercooled air is also a big deal. When our air coolers go down, our guns go from dry snow to slop. 

And that doesn't even touch on the fringe benefits, like faster startup adding extra snowmaking minutes, less babysitting means more time for the ops guys on the hill, if there's a Variable Frequency Drive then startup goes much smoother and in cold weather when water is maxed out the compressor can be throttled back automatically, saving power without spiking or dropping pressure or dumping air...

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 19, 2018)

How the hell is DoWork and his crew changing the tires on this thing as it rolls down the road?

Amazing. Meltdown then push it right back up the mountain.




SIKSKIER said:


> Nice to see this.Go Magic!
> 
> THE LATEST
> The Dawn of a New Snowmaking Era at Magic!
> ...


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## slatham (Jan 19, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> 3,200 CFM is worth (depending on nozzle setup) about 32 new HKD Impulses (480 GPM at startup) or five Ratnik Baby SG2 guns flowing around 100 GPM.
> 4825 CFM gives nearly 50 HKD Impulses at 735 gpm on startup, or seven Ratniks plus a bit extra air flowing 140 GPM.
> 
> Magic might have their Impulses set up to flow less air than the ones where I work, so the numbers might be even better. Regardless, between the HKDs and the Halo/Diablo and Areco fans, Magic should be close to maximum water flow at startup on certain routes (IIRC around 1000 GPM). And *that* means the pond can turn into base depth more quickly, and at much warmer temperatures, than ever before. This air change almost doubles their output at 25 degrees wetbulb.
> ...



Not quite there yet on the GPM. They need the pond done (this summer) and increased GPM to max out those compressors. I have to assume they plan more GPM flow, otherwise why all the CFM.

But just an amazing parade of upgrades over the past 14 months. Yes, it's been less than 14 months since the deal closed!


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## NYDB (Jan 20, 2018)

Magic lift lines 10am
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 20, 2018)

Looks like it was a GREAT day there!


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 20, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Looks like it was a GREAT day there!



It was a really a nice day. Limited terrain of course but some great surfaces and weather. The place is really humming with lots of first time Magic skiers. Met a guy from Denmark on rentals who read the WS Journal article and had a weekend to kill on a business trip. Also a fellow from DC whose wife was a newby enjoying the inauguration of the magic carpet lift. Not only was the carpet getting good use, but the terrain park had a stream of fans too.


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 23, 2018)

Carpet plus little park = excellent additions.

Pretty friendly staff as well...







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## slatham (Jan 23, 2018)

Magic putting everything in place. Time for the snow gods to be gracious and deliver a February to remember.


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## urungus (Jan 24, 2018)

The carpet is a great addition ... I remember hating rope tows as a kid (what they had on most bunny slopes back then), shredding endless sets of gloves, thinking my arms were going to get wrenched out of their sockets, falling down and causing massive pileups...


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 29, 2018)

You didn't used to see many 2ft shredders, now they hanging out in packs! Love the carpet.

Rope tow park was also getting heavily use this past weekend. Cool video from Magic  https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/videos/10154988781867038/

Locally people seem stoked. Mrs MSB and I went to Honeypie for dinner and the staff was telling all the customers to go to Magic.




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## Vaughn (Jan 29, 2018)

It's interesting to see how Magic has apparently re-opened without too many snags but Tenney is still pending. There was of course the lawsuit with that grifter at Tenney which didn't help. Did the new owners of Magic just have a ton more cash when they bought?


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 29, 2018)

magic wasn't going from defunct to open. they transitioned ownership but they were already operational.


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## slatham (Jan 29, 2018)

Vaughn said:


> It's interesting to see how Magic has apparently re-opened without too many snags but Tenney is still pending. There was of course the lawsuit with that grifter at Tenney which didn't help. Did the new owners of Magic just have a ton more cash when they bought?



I do not know the situation at Tenney, but I do know that Magic had key people (Geoff, Matt, George {RIP), Travis, Brownie, Craig, etc. etc.) who knew the mountain extremely well - warts and all. So from before day 1 they knew what needed to be done, in what order, at what expense etc. And of course they had the funding lined up to accomplish what they felt was necessary to make Magic a going concern. I know they have hit some snags, as one would expect. But one step back has always been followed by two steps forward.

Also, to give some credit to previous regimes, Magic had "reopened" many years ago and was - often times by a thread - in continuous operation. 

That said what Ski Magic has done in the past 14 months is nothing short of phenomenal.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 29, 2018)

Magic needed CPR. Tenney needed necromancy. 

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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 30, 2018)

To echo the others, Magic had a few benefits including 1) operational history, 2) reasonable financial records that formed the initial base to forecast off, 3) an ownership structure that, while convoluted, enabled the Nelson family (previous owners of the land) to drive the prior group towards a sale, 4) the Nelson family's desire to see a group dedicated to keeping Magic special come in and run the place even if it meant significant financial concessions on their part, 5) a new ownership group backed by successful business owners and/or investors, 6) the help of past employees to build a business plan,   7) a recognition that significant investment and a few years of negative cash flows were necessary to achieve their goals, and 8) the EXTREME dedication of the core team... Geoff, Matt, Travis, Craig, Denise, Brownie, Mellissa, Kerry, (I am sure I am missing a few).

Lots of stars aligned, but so far they are killing it. I can only imagine what the next few years hold. 


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## Smellytele (Jan 30, 2018)

So far this season how have the skier visits numbers been looking? I know of all the great improvements and dedication of the ownership team and don't want to go negative but without more skier visits all will be for naught. I love the place and want to see it succeed for many years to come.


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## Vaughn (Jan 30, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> Magic needed CPR. Tenney needed necromancy.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk



Ha! That's a great summation in six words. Thanks all for the answers. 

Anyone getting into the ski area business seems crazy to me, whether it's Magic, Tenney or Otten's crazy scheme to build a resort very, very far away from any major population centers.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 30, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> So far this season how have the skier visits numbers been looking? I know of all the great improvements and dedication of the ownership team and don't want to go negative but without more skier visits all will be for naught. I love the place and want to see it succeed for many years to come.



YTD, despite the recent weather challenges which are impacting sales/visits across the state, our skier visit numbers are exceeding Year 2 plan goals.


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## Smellytele (Jan 30, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> YTD, despite the recent weather challenges which are impacting sales/visits across the state, our skier visit numbers are exceeding Year 2 plan goals.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



That is great news. Now let it snow (again).


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 30, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> YTD, despite the recent weather challenges which are impacting sales/visits across the state, our skier visit numbers are exceeding Year 2 plan goals.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



It’s crazy there are people downstairs! I didn’t know the lodge had more than one floor. 

People are bringing their whole family children, girlfriends, wives, no longer do you have to drop your family off at Bromley and sneak over to Magic to keep everyone happy. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 31, 2018)

^lol. I definitely have dropped gf at Stratton and then driven to magic, at least once.


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## NYDB (Jan 31, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ^lol. I definitely have dropped gf at Stratton and then driven to magic, at least once.



I'll be doing that Super Monday with the wife and younger kid if we get any significant snow. since I am assuming a 'powder day' type operations level on 2/5 (no snowschool, BLT only for food/bev)


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## slatham (Jan 31, 2018)

Magicsnowboard said:


> It’s crazy there are people downstairs! I didn’t know the lodge had more than one floor.
> 
> People are bringing their whole family children, girlfriends, wives, no longer do you have to drop your family off at Bromley and sneak over to Magic to keep everyone happy.
> 
> ...



This alone could drive tickets sales 50%+ higher! Great to hear Magic is above targets despite some challenges along the way. I think Feb will deliver, with a small start tomorrow/Friday.


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## caribchakita (Feb 2, 2018)

I have never been to Magic. Is it boarder friendly and are their any annoyances I need to know about such as abysmal parking gridlock (Okemo) ....looks like the 802 is getting all the snow this week


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## rocks860 (Feb 2, 2018)

Ummm no, there’s definitely no parking gridlock


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 2, 2018)

caribchakita said:


> I have never been to Magic. Is it boarder friendly and are their any annoyances I need to know about such as abysmal parking gridlock (Okemo) ....looks like the 802 is getting all the snow this week



Gridlock here is when you can't get any internet #offthegrid

We even have boarders that are quite friendly


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## IceEidolon (Feb 2, 2018)

There are moguls in spots. 

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## bdfreetuna (Feb 3, 2018)

Is Magic going to be open Wednesday for a powder day based on the current forecast of 8" + ?


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## slatham (Feb 3, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Is Magic going to be open Wednesday for a powder day based on the current forecast of 8" + ?



Let's get the potential snow due tomorrow down on the ground and then think about mid week. But as I see it yes it could be worthy of a powder day but Thursday not Wednesday.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 3, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Is Magic going to be open Wednesday for a powder day based on the current forecast of 8" + ?



Magic has a private rental event on Wednesday. But as SLatham says, most snow falls on Wednesday not before so Thursday would be the pow day anyway--hopefully that snow happens as predicted!


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 4, 2018)

Thanks appreciate it!


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## Do Work (Feb 4, 2018)

Well, even just this morning's squall really spruced things up and snowmaking trails are full on hero fluff.  Non snowmaking isn't quite there yet, but the snow is bonding pretty darn well and if we get the double digits out of this storm tonight, tomorrow is going to be CRAZY good.  Anybody making the trek up for Super Monday?


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## NYDB (Feb 4, 2018)

Imma be there with the boy doing my best to support the evil VT tourist economy.   When r the lifts spinning? 9?

Hopefully 8-10 total


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## NYDB (Feb 4, 2018)

Any chance of a route down the Westside tommorow?  We're you guys blowing in sorcerer?


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## rocks860 (Feb 4, 2018)

Based on this forecast I may be taking a trip to magic this week nd


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## sugarbushskier (Feb 5, 2018)

Thinking Thursday!


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 5, 2018)

sugarbushskier said:


> Thinking Thursday!



along with probably half this forum


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## ss20 (Feb 5, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> along with probably half this forum



:lol:


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## mriceyman (Feb 5, 2018)

Black chair back before weekend?


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## NYDB (Feb 5, 2018)

Today was good. Alot more got open than i thought. Heavy powder to mid mountain. Surfable crusty stuff down below.  Game on after wednesday fer sure.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








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## mriceyman (Feb 5, 2018)

Wednesday could be a really nice storm.


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## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2018)

Well just bought my ticket for saturday


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## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2018)

Well just bought my ticket for saturday


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 6, 2018)

No $29 throwback tickets on Thursday, but the skiing should be fantastic!


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## gmcunni (Feb 6, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> along with probably half this forum



is that a lot of people these days?? ;-)

it is also a CT Ski Council Awareness day all weekend - Fri ($42) Sat ($45) + Sun($45)  - so all the discount hunters from around New England will also be there.


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## NYDB (Feb 6, 2018)

2/5 was awesome, there were about 150 people there.  Seemed like less. Fresh lines until the end of the day.  Too much sausage and bacon was consumed, good snow was enjoyed, terrain was opened for all to enjoy, sun broke out late morning.  


Mark Super Monday off on the calendar for next year. Take the day from work and or school. Highly recommended.  :beer:


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## mriceyman (Feb 6, 2018)

Tix bought for Saturday.. wouldve been there thursday but aint easy with 3 kids under 4 lol


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## bheemsoth (Feb 6, 2018)

I think I will be making the trip up solo on Thursday. Looks like a good day.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 6, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> Black chair back before weekend?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Working like hell to make it happen. Emergency brake issue she had is solved and was inspected by State today--all good there. But a new issue developed during the inspection with the Auxiliary back-up motor so the team is pouncing on that one. We will adjust our day ticket limit from 1500 down to 1000 if it is not resolved by Saturday. But we are taking the approach that this is one last obstacle that needs to be overcome by Saturday morning...


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## mriceyman (Feb 6, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Working like hell to make it happen. Emergency brake issue she had is solved and was inspected by State today--all good there. But a new issue developed during the inspection with the Auxiliary back-up motor so the team is pouncing on that one. We will adjust our day ticket limit from 1500 down to 1000 if it is not resolved by Saturday. But we are taking the approach that this is one last obstacle that needs to be overcome by Saturday morning...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Thanks for the response!!!! I gambled and bought a ticket but would obviously love both chairs. Hope you guys can pull it out for what should be a semi pow day Saturday. 


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## tnt1234 (Feb 7, 2018)

Thinking about my third try at our first Magic Trip for President's Day weekend.  I've booked rooms twice in the last two years only to be blown out by weather.

-  Am I right in thinking Magic will be less crowded that nearby mountains?
-  Will there be ticket limits in place?  Should I pre-buy?
-  I realize it's a week and a half out, but thoughts on the weather?  Worried about that warm up middle of next week.

You guys getting there this weekend should really be in for a treat.


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## Newpylong (Feb 7, 2018)

That warm up next week does not look like much of a warm up.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 7, 2018)

tnt1234 said:


> Thinking about my third try at our first Magic Trip for President's Day weekend.  I've booked rooms twice in the last two years only to be blown out by weather.
> 
> -  Am I right in thinking Magic will be less crowded that nearby mountains?
> -  Will there be ticket limits in place?  Should I pre-buy?
> ...



-Yes, Magic will be less crowded than Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo
-Yes, there is a ticket limit in place every day. Pre-buy for savings or get there early.
-There will be snow on the mountain during Prezi week.  What do you mean 'blown out by weather'?  I'm looking back at my photos from the last few Febs and see I was skiing backcountry lines each year. If I was skiing BC, the mountains surely had plenty of terrain open.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 7, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> -Yes, Magic will be less crowded than Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo
> -Yes, there is a ticket limit in place every day. Pre-buy for savings or get there early.
> -There will be snow on the mountain during Prezi week.  What do you mean 'blown out by weather'?  I'm looking back at my photos from the last few Febs and see I was skiing backcountry lines each year. If I was skiing BC, the mountains surely had plenty of terrain open.



Thanks.

First effort was two X-mas breaks ago.  I think they opened with like 1 or 2 ways down.  We cancelled and went to Stowe - which had like 3 or 4!  

Second effort was the weekend after that giant rain this past January.


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## mriceyman (Feb 7, 2018)

Idk about prez weekend but this weekend should be pretty dam good


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 7, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> -Yes, Magic will be less crowded than Stratton, Bromley, and Okemo.



Brom and Magic are usually equally uncrowded IMO. On a powder day Brom is much less crowded. They are both mountains where you'll recognize most people skiing there throughout the day.

Since I was hoping to get to Magic soon anyway I'm thinking about this free Valentine's Day special. Saves me a Ski VT pass!


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## ss20 (Feb 7, 2018)

Tomorrow is "Powder Day" pricing because of the storm.  Am I the only one who thinks that practice is totally wrong and blatant price gouging?  And don't say it "protects the snow from traffic" because 90% of the people who'd by a ticket for $29 are gonna buy one for $61 given its a foot of snow.  

I know I'm opening a can of worms... don't crucify me...


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## Harvey (Feb 7, 2018)

You disagree with a business charging full price for their best product?

How about free powder days and $61 for the WROD?


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## ss20 (Feb 7, 2018)

Harvey said:


> You disagree with a business charging full price for their best product?
> 
> How about free powder days and $61 for the WROD?



No, I disagree with jacking up ticket prices (with as little at 3 hours notice) when the rate as already been advertised.   

Every major New England ski area will have their "best product" on display tomorrow.  The price of a walk-up ticket tomorrow will be whatever it was promised to be when the mountain released it's rates in the Fall.  White ribbon of death or powder day.  Magic is the exception.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 7, 2018)

ss20 said:


> No, I disagree with jacking up ticket prices (with as little at 3 hours notice) when the rate as already been advertised.
> 
> Every major New England ski area will have their "best product" on display tomorrow.  The price of a walk-up ticket tomorrow will be whatever it was promised to be when the mountain released it's rates in the Fall.  White ribbon of death or powder day.  Magic is the exception.


They always charge the Powder Day rate for 6"+ though?

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## Harvey (Feb 7, 2018)

ss20 said:


> No, I disagree with jacking up ticket prices (with as little at 3 hours notice) when the rate as already been advertised.
> 
> Every major New England ski area will have their "best product" on display tomorrow.  The price of a walk-up ticket tomorrow will be whatever it was promised to be when the mountain released it's rates in the Fall.  White ribbon of death or powder day.  Magic is the exception.



If $61 is the advertised price, but they lowered it for marginal conditions on opening day would you insist on paying full price because it was advertised long in advance? Are other VT hills charging less than $61 tomorrow?  Maybe go there.

I don't know the financials but I'd bet that Magic's future far from assured. If Magic is going to survive they are going to have to make some money sometime. How many days do they operate in an average season?

Personally I think $60 is not unreasonable to take you up the hill 20 or 30 times in a day. Without a lift you could get maybe 3 or 4 runs in a day.  I think we expect a lot.

EDIT: I checked out Bromley, it looks like $80 (?) with the disclaimer that says prices are subject to change without notice, $79 if you buy more than one day in advance.


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## cdskier (Feb 7, 2018)

ss20 said:


> No, I disagree with jacking up ticket prices (with as little at 3 hours notice) when the rate as already been advertised.



The specials page on their website clearly says Throwback Thursday rates don't apply if there's 6+ inches of powder though...or are you saying this page was changed just today to add that verbiage?


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 7, 2018)

cdskier said:


> The specials page on their website clearly says Throwback Thursday rates don't apply if there's 6+ inches of powder though...or are you saying this page was changed just today to add that verbiage?



Been there all year. Last year too. This is why we can't have nice things. 


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Been there all year. Last year too. This is why we can't have nice things.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Any update on the black?


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 8, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> Any update on the black?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



The back up motor is getting inspected by State today. Worked great yesterday


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## cdskier (Feb 8, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Been there all year. Last year too. This is why we can't have nice things.



That's what I suspected...so someone is complaining about something because they didn't actually pay attention to the details originally. Nice!


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## ss20 (Feb 8, 2018)

cdskier said:


> That's what I suspected...so someone is complaining about something because they didn't actually pay attention to the details originally. Nice!



No, I get this has been the policy for a few years.


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## cdskier (Feb 8, 2018)

ss20 said:


> No, I get this has been the policy for a few years.



Ok, then why the following comment?



ss20 said:


> No, I disagree with jacking up ticket prices (with as little at 3 hours notice) when the rate as already been advertised.



Personally I would not at all be against ski areas in general charging a premium for day ticket rates on powder days. I'm sure there are people that disagree. I have a much larger issue with the rates some (or even many) areas charge early season or even late season for limited terrain. Charging more for the best conditions though? It actually makes a lot of sense.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 8, 2018)

Yeah and it's not like we changed the price 3 hrs in advance. We saw the storm as far back as Sunday and emailed folks then that Thursday would be a powder Day price and included it in fb twitter website snow report etc all week. But you can't hit everyone I guess...


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## rocks860 (Feb 8, 2018)

Yeah I’m not sure I get what the issue is here. I’m more concerned with Stowe charging 120 bucks for a ticket on a crap day then magic charging full price (which is almost half of this) on a day with great conditions. Especially since it’s an openly advertised policy


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## Big Game (Feb 8, 2018)

In 1986, our just-formed high school ski club planned a trip to Magic Mountain. I don't know how we got lost but we did, and we wound up at Bromley. Since then, I have still not been to Magic. That changes very soon --- bought tix online for tomorrow. Been following this thread a long time. Looking forward to all the investments both in money and in sweat.


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> The back up motor is getting inspected by State today. Worked great yesterday



Rockstars you guys are


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2018)

Cant wait for Saturday 


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## rocks860 (Feb 8, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> Cant wait for Saturday
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Agreed, my last visit to magic was not ideal (the winter carnival weekend last year) so this should be much better 


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Agreed, my last visit to magic was not ideal (the winter carnival weekend last year) so this should be much better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Of course we might have to deal with a little wet weather later in the day but i dont think it will be too bad 


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## rocks860 (Feb 8, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> Of course we might have to deal with a little wet weather later in the day but i dont think it will be too bad
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



My last visit basically everything was almost solid ice. I think we did 3 runs then called it quits


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> My last visit basically everything was almost solid ice. I think we did 3 runs then called it quits
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That will definitely not be the case Saturday.. maybe even a couple inches fri nite sat morning.. after the 22” this week.. it will be hovering around freezing. Should be a great day


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## Jully (Feb 8, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Personally I would not at all be against ski areas in general charging a premium for day ticket rates on powder days. I'm sure there are people that disagree. I have a much larger issue with the rates some (or even many) areas charge early season or even late season for limited terrain. Charging more for the best conditions though? It actually makes a lot of sense.



I agree with this wholeheartedly and actually like the policy. Almost every other business has variable pricing schemes based on the product and time of year.

More people want to ski weekends than midweek, so ticket prices are higher on weekends. Those price differences are advertised just about as well as Magic advertises their powder day rate. More people want to ski on a powder day, so ski areas should absolutely charge a higher rate.


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## gmcunni (Feb 8, 2018)

i have no issue with the powder pricing going for a thursday.  but are you saying that if you show up on a saturday and it snowed 12 inches on Friday night that you would be ok paying more than the window price for "normal weekends" ?  i think window rate is $69, so you'd pay, say $100?  

what if you buy in advance for a particular day long before knowing the snow would fly the night before you arrive, you pay a premium at the window to get your ticket?


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 8, 2018)

So... who went up there today and has pics?


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 8, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> Rockstars you guys are
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Done. Certified! Black will be spinning Saturday Sunday. Travis Richmond gets major kudos


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## mriceyman (Feb 8, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Done. Certified! Black will be spinning Saturday Sunday. Travis Richmond gets major kudos
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Made my night!! I may only get 2-3 days in this year( live in nj with 3 kids under 4) but you guys are my first choice everytime! Cant wait for the kids to ride the new carpet in a couple years. 


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## tnt1234 (Feb 8, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> So... who went up there today and has pics?



yeah, really...what's the hold up on the pics here?


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## NYDB (Feb 8, 2018)

They've posted a bunch on instagram.  Then they gotta do tgr, and then lowly alpinezone

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## camberstick (Feb 9, 2018)

Magic was great yesterday.The whole mountain skied well. no base snow made for a few scrapey moments but what a awesome day. first time up since the lodge was done,very nice.the word is out,I met  alot of first timers in the lodge and the mountain was busier than past visits for sure. no pics, too busy riding!


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## gregnye (Feb 9, 2018)

Jully said:


> I agree with this wholeheartedly and actually like the policy. Almost every other business has variable pricing schemes based on the product and time of year.
> 
> More people want to ski weekends than midweek, so ticket prices are higher on weekends. Those price differences are advertised just about as well as Magic advertises their powder day rate. More people want to ski on a powder day, so ski areas should absolutely charge a higher rate.



I disagree. If it is a special "discount" day it should remain a special day regardless of snow conditions. 

Sugarbush for example has $30 Thursdays at Mt. Ellen. That's the price regardless of snow conditions. Sometimes you luck out and get a storm on a thursday and sometimes you don't. To charge more money rather than honor that special is just obnoxious.

Another example was Mt. Snow's Founder's Day last year (December 2016) where they got a massive snow storm on a day where tickets were $12. Did they raise the price? No. 

Also Cannon. Cannon has lots of special days throughout the week for NH residents. The prices don't fluctuate depending on how much powder (or ice!) Cannon has.

And what if Magic gets 5.9inches of snow? Do they round up to 6 to increase the price? Fluctuating prices open a whole new can of worms.

Next wednesday is free because it's valentines day. Now what if we get snow? Is it not free?


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## rocks860 (Feb 9, 2018)

camberstick said:


> Magic was great yesterday.The whole mountain skied well. no base snow made for a few scrapey moments but what a awesome day. first time up since the lodge was done,very nice.the word is out,I met  alot of first timers in the lodge and the mountain was busier than past visits for sure. no pics, too busy riding!



I suppose the question for tomorrow is do I bring my 120 wide powder skis or my 100 wide everything else skis. Any insight?


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 9, 2018)

So the price goes up even if you have a "Throwback Card" ??


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## gmcunni (Feb 9, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> I suppose the question for tomorrow is do I bring my 120 wide powder skis or my 100 wide everything else skis. Any insight?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



ummmm, both?


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## rocks860 (Feb 9, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> ummmm, both?



Think that’s warranted? I’d prefer not to leave a pair sitting on my car all day 


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## Jully (Feb 9, 2018)

gregnye said:


> I disagree. If it is a special "discount" day it should remain a special day regardless of snow conditions.
> 
> Sugarbush for example has $30 Thursdays at Mt. Ellen. That's the price regardless of snow conditions. Sometimes you luck out and get a storm on a thursday and sometimes you don't. To charge more money rather than honor that special is just obnoxious.
> 
> ...



All of the discounts you mentioned are not valid on holidays/holiday periods, I believe (most specials like that typically aren't). What is different about treating a powder day the same way as a holiday?


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## mriceyman (Feb 9, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Think that’s warranted? I’d prefer not to leave a pair sitting on my car all day
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



2-3” overnight.. im bringing my bonafides


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## gmcunni (Feb 9, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Think that’s warranted? I’d prefer not to leave a pair sitting on my car all day
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



 in the past i've taken 2 pair to a mountain and left one locked to the rack at the base lodge, switching out 1/2 way through the day.  if you only want to carry one and are unsure what the day will be like on the mountains i suspect the 100s offer the most versatility.. but depends on the skier as much, if not more so, than the ski.  if you can rock the 120s then go for it.


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## rocks860 (Feb 9, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> in the past i've taken 2 pair to a mountain and left one locked to the rack at the base lodge, switching out 1/2 way through the day.  if you only want to carry one and are unsure what the day will be like on the mountains i suspect the 100s offer the most versatility.. but depends on the skier as much, if not more so, than the ski.  if you can rock the 120s then go for it.



I regretted not having the 120s last Friday at sugarbush with 6 inches of fresh so I’m leaning that way


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## rocks860 (Feb 9, 2018)

The 100s have no rocker at all so I’m guessing I’ll appreciate having it


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 9, 2018)

Jully said:


> What is different about treating a powder day the same way as a holiday?



Because you can plan on the holiday periods, long before the season even starts.


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## tumbler (Feb 9, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> I regretted not having the 120s last Friday at sugarbush with 6 inches of fresh so I’m leaning that way
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seriously?  My only ski is a 93 and it works just fine especially in 6"  Worked just fine in over a foot at Snowbird.  So did the old 205's

Plus I'm too mental to have more than one ski, I would be constantly be thinking I'm on the wrong ski and freak out.


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## Smellytele (Feb 9, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Seriously?  My only ski is a 93 and it works just fine especially in 6"  Worked just fine in over a foot at Snowbird.  So did the old 205's
> 
> Plus I'm too mental to have more than one ski, I would be constantly be thinking I'm on the wrong ski and freak out.


you just need a matrix to consult to make your decision on what ski to bring. no thinking needed


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## sull1102 (Feb 9, 2018)

gregnye said:


> And what if Magic gets 5.9inches of snow? Do they round up to 6 to increase the price? Fluctuating prices open a whole new can of worms.
> 
> Next wednesday is free because it's valentines day. Now what if we get snow? Is it not free?



Two very good points, however totally understand why Magic does this.



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## slatham (Feb 9, 2018)

gregnye said:


> I disagree. If it is a special "discount" day it should remain a special day regardless of snow conditions.
> 
> Sugarbush for example has $30 Thursdays at Mt. Ellen. That's the price regardless of snow conditions. Sometimes you luck out and get a storm on a thursday and sometimes you don't. To charge more money rather than honor that special is just obnoxious.
> 
> ...



First of all this is a long held, well known policy. And they warned that powder day pricing would be in effect several days in advance. 

Second, they are not open every day like the other resorts mentioned, but have policy of opening for Powder Days with >6" and >50% open at powder day pricing. And this applies to Thursday's.

But the biggest factor is this not a mega area like Sugarbush, or (state sponsored) Cannon or Mt Snow. This is Magic! They need to be smart and maximize revenue (in reasonable ways) in order to survive. $69 for a powder day at Magic is still very reasonable.

With regard to fluctuating pricing, with so many tickets now sold online, fluctuating pricing is reality. Sure, walk up tickets don't change, but when you go online to buy a ticket those prices will vary due to a huge number of factors. 

Next Wednesday is free, full stop. Could snow 3' and its still free to you.


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## makimono (Feb 9, 2018)

I think of it more as a wicked discount on low snow Thursdays than an extra charge for high snow Thursdays. That may not be how it's worded but I think that's the intent. But I'm a glass half full guy. 

I also bring like half a dozen skis and strew them all around the deck. But I've been known to break a ski or two. And bindings, and poles, and boots.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 9, 2018)

I wonder if it's going to be insane crowds on Wed. Not really concerned though because it looks like just a little above freezing temps and sunny so it should be enjoyable regardless esp if both lifts are running.


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## Euler (Feb 9, 2018)

As far as the Powder Day pricing on Thursdays...Magic is in the process of coming back from the brink right now.  It's a skiers treasure...practically a historic landmark.  You should be happy to get the chance to give this little gem of a place 69.00.  I bought a pass there this year and couldn't be happier with my decision.  Of all the things to complain about available to us, Magic Mountain is not among them.  The place is a gem.  Go there, have a blast, and spend your money.  It costs a lot of money to operate the place for god's sake.


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## caribchakita (Feb 9, 2018)

Is Magic a mostly black/expert mountain? I'd love to support small mountains..I heard a group of private investors who loved the mountain went in to bring it back to life...gotta read up on the history. My fav little mountain is Crotched.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 9, 2018)

Basically yes. You would probably love Bromley though.

Magic is the best Southern VT mountain but it's really the steeps and steep woods that make the mountain stand out, and is also a large amount of their terrain.

The vibe there is very chill and low key, but the terrain will challenge you.


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## ss20 (Feb 9, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Basically yes. You would probably love Bromley though.
> 
> Magic is the best Southern VT mountain but it's really the steeps and steep woods that make the mountain stand out, and is also a large amount of their terrain.
> 
> The vibe there is very chill and low key, but the terrain will challenge you.



I'd disagree and say it has solid terrain for the novice and expert.  There's not much wide-open intermediate terrain though.  Lot's of open low-angle stuff though, and of course, solid expert terrain.   


I don't understand people who think we're "blessed" to be able to ski Magic for $69.  They run two fixed-grip lifts and one magic carpet.  They groom minimally and make snow minimally.  Payroll is minimal.  The reality is they probably make quite a large margin off of each customer, but lack the large customer base that other mountains have.


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## gregnye (Feb 9, 2018)

Euler said:


> Of all the things to complain about available to us, Magic Mountain is not among them.  The place is a gem.  Go there, have a blast, and spend your money.  It costs a lot of money to operate the place for god's sake.



I love Magic Mountain and I totally love the vibe there! I am just against variable pricing based on snow conditions. 

While I have more trust that Magic is doing the right thing because they are not a large company, I am worried that soon the bigger players like Vail Resorts will follow a similar model, adding an additional cost to an already expensive sport.


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## Euler (Feb 9, 2018)

There is a solid amount of groomed, low angle terrain there now.  



bdfreetuna said:


> Basically yes. You would probably love Bromley though.
> 
> Magic is the best Southern VT mountain but it's really the steeps and steep woods that make the mountain stand out, and is also a large amount of their terrain.
> 
> The vibe there is very chill and low key, but the terrain will challenge you.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 9, 2018)

*Skis for tomorrow question*

100s I think. I skied today and this is deep snow but not really powder and it is getting compressed. In to great moguls by the way. I was skiing on the way up from CT so 90s were the widest I had in the van. 100s are loaded already for tomorrow. Plus, it will sprinkle a bit and the snow will only get heavier.

What a day though! 100% open, cycling the black lift. I suppose the question for tomorrow is do I bring my 120 wide powder skis or my 100 wide everything else skis. Any insight?


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> 100s I think. I skied today and this is deep snow but not really powder and it is getting compressed. In to great moguls by the way. I was skiing on the way up from CT so 90s were the widest I had in the van. 100s are loaded already for tomorrow. Plus, it will sprinkle a bit and the snow will only get heavier.
> 
> What a day though! 100% open, cycling the black lift. I suppose the question for tomorrow is do I bring my 120 wide powder skis or my 100 wide everything else skis. Any insight?
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Well I went with the 120s but I’m not super concerned


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## Newpylong (Feb 10, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I'd disagree and say it has solid terrain for the novice and expert.  There's not much wide-open intermediate terrain though.  Lot's of open low-angle stuff though, and of course, solid expert terrain.
> 
> 
> I don't understand people who think we're "blessed" to be able to ski Magic for $69.  They run two fixed-grip lifts and one magic carpet.  They groom minimally and make snow minimally.  Payroll is minimal.  The reality is they probably make quite a large margin off of each customer, but lack the large customer base that other mountains have.



Even at $69, I can guarantee you there isn't much margin - even with minimal staffing, snowmaking etc. There are just so many fixed costs with operating a ski area that cannot be reduced. $110 at a place like K is actually a deal if you had access to the books to see for yourself what it costs to operate.


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

Snow is definitely quite moist and dense but there certainly is a lot of it!


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## Big Game (Feb 10, 2018)

My observations of my first visit to Magic (after a 32-year delay)


1. Magic is a small mountain in terms of amount of people there. Not a small mountain in the terms of terrain. 
2. We settled into a different, more relaxing pace. Focus on quality not quantity. We paced ourselves to make it to about 3:30. Certainly the latest I made it in a very long time. 
3. The lighting does not deteriorate to complete flat later in the day due to NW exposure. 
4. Many blues would easily be considered blacks at other resorts.
5. We had a surprising amount of fun on the groomers. I would say perfect amount of grooming. 
6. There was no indication that Magic has gone through difficult financial times. Everything said success. 
7. Wind-protected.  The trees at the summit are taller than any other peak I have been to in Vermont. You aren't getting blasted by wind at the top.  There is no wasted vertical enduring wind-exposed ice.
8. Fixed grip: As I hoped/expected riding a fixed grip double all day did not detract one bit. The terrain will use up your leg. We had nothing left at 3:30. The ride up again with no wind, is comfortable. 
9. Steeps are great and don't require painful traverses to access. Talisman was my trail of the day. Goofy footed traverse back to lift at bottom was not problem. My brother who is regular stance said it bugged him a little.
10. Didn't get a chance to get into the woods. Looks like most entrances I saw were tight and intimidating. That's a good thing. 
11. Back in time: No scan coders, no RFIDs. It's stickers and wickets all the way.


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## Smellytele (Feb 10, 2018)

Big Game said:


> My observations of my first visit to Magic (after a 32-year delay)
> 
> 
> 1. Magic is a small mountain in terms of amount of people there. Not a small mountain in the terms of terrain.
> ...




Real questions are - will you gp back? and will you bring others?


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

Well black was running briefly and then stopped several times and now is  running but with no one on it. And now the line at red is huge


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## slatham (Feb 10, 2018)

caribchakita said:


> Is Magic a mostly black/expert mountain? I'd love to support small mountains..I heard a group of private investors who loved the mountain went in to bring it back to life...gotta read up on the history. My fav little mountain is Crotched.



There is some solid beginner and intermediate terrain that is regularly groomed and offers great cruising: Medium, Trick, Up Your Sleeve, Lower Magic Carpet, Kinderspiel, Show Off. Wizard is great old school narrow, winding, intermediate trail that is sometimes groomed. And once they make snow on Talisman that will be groomed and although black is very skiable when groomed. And remember its 1,500' vertical, so there is a lot there.

So no its not exclusively expert, but that is one thing that sets Magic apart from the other SoVT areas.


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

Ended up calling it quits around 1 with the rain and the lines but definitely a very enjoyable day. Twilight zone was probably the run of the day, big soft bumps although you had to watch out for rocks and roots between them


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 10, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Well black was running briefly and then stopped several times and now is  running but with no one on it. And now the line at red is huge
> 
> 
> I showed up at noon, saw the line and turned around. I'll ski tomorrow though. Spoiled season ticket holder. Geoff said no diagnosis on Black lift yet.
> ...


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> rocks860 said:
> 
> 
> > Well black was running briefly and then stopped several times and now is  running but with no one on it. And now the line at red is huge
> ...


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 10, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> rocks860 said:
> 
> 
> > Well black was running briefly and then stopped several times and now is  running but with no one on it. And now the line at red is huge
> ...


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 10, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> Even at $69, I can guarantee you there isn't much margin - even with minimal staffing, snowmaking etc. There are just so many fixed costs with operating a ski area that cannot be reduced. $110 at a place like K is actually a deal if you had access to the books to see for yourself what it costs to operate.



Truth


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 10, 2018)

Big Game said:


> My observations of my first visit to Magic (after a 32-year delay)
> 
> 
> 1. Magic is a small mountain in terms of amount of people there. Not a small mountain in the terms of terrain.
> ...



Word (s)


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 10, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Well black was running briefly and then stopped several times and now is  running but with no one on it. And now the line at red is huge
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nothing comes easy on Black. But thankfully got it back and the afternoon ran smoothly


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Truth
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Hey Geoff I think I saw you earlier over by black and on the deck, just wanted to say keep up the great work. Still a great day today even though things didn’t go exactly as planned


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 10, 2018)

Next time just stop me and say hi next time you're here. Thanks for coming.

Man, nothing ever goes as planned. But our crew keeps overcoming obstacles. 


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## rocks860 (Feb 10, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Next time just stop me and say hi next time you're here. Thanks for coming.
> 
> Man, nothing ever goes as planned. But our crew keeps overcoming obstacles.
> 
> ...



Will do, I was right at the front of the singles line when black started acting up haha


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## mriceyman (Feb 11, 2018)

Another great day at magic..the weather held out and turned out to be a nice day except for the rain shower in the middle.. the Black helped with crowds in am and than again in pm.. we took a nice lunch from like 1140-1240. AM groomers were silky smooth.. some natural trails took a beating throughout the day but was still a great day. Lunch was great and got to donate to the til i die guys. Snow def got a little sticky but cant complain. Thanks again to the magic crew 


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 11, 2018)

Hows the base up there right now... I figure it's gonna get locked in with the freeze tomorrow until Wednesday hopefully it softens up to loose granular for the free day.

Thinking lack of skier traffic Mon / Tues will help with the moisture issue somewhat.


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## rocks860 (Feb 11, 2018)

Hopefully it’s nothing like here because it’s been steady rain since yesterday afternoon


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## tnt1234 (Feb 11, 2018)

dang...every time I plan a magic trip, weather gets screwy.

Non-refundable room in manchester, and two days this week in the 40s then teens to 20s saturday.  Oh well.  no choice this time....might try someplace else saturday - maybe drive north to Pico - then do magic sunday - looks a little warmer.  Maybe it will soften up.

Well, still a few days out....maybe something will change....


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## mriceyman (Feb 11, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Hows the base up there right now... I figure it's gonna get locked in with the freeze tomorrow until Wednesday hopefully it softens up to loose granular for the free day.
> 
> Thinking lack of skier traffic Mon / Tues will help with the moisture issue somewhat.



The steeper non groomed was scraped to the ground in spots.. lots of obstacles in the dub black trees.. other than that coverage seems pretty good


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 11, 2018)

Appreciate honest intel. I had to come up with a new strategy for Wed - Thurs based on the weather anyway. Doesn't change the big picture plan to ski there this season ASAP.


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## rocks860 (Feb 11, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Appreciate honest intel. I had to come up with a new strategy for Wed - Thurs based on the weather anyway. Doesn't change the big picture plan to ski there this season ASAP.



Red line was looking very bare around noon yesterday 


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 12, 2018)

Had a great time this weekend. Took the long pretty ski tour Saturday afternoon with the in-laws.  Little MSB also made a considerable step skiing off the leash. Loving the Nelson learning center and improved beginner options. 

 https://www.facebook.com/jamie.anderson.372/posts/10100221826390072

With regard to pricing, over the last four years, I have paid $83 (no snow year before new management took over), $15, $16, and $19 a day to ski Magic. If you are super concerned about pricing (powder day or otherwise), buy a pass in April and make a point of showing up frequently. With new the management in place, the risk of throwing away $500 (the $83 year) is virtually gone. There is no surcharge on pass pricing, and if you ski a lot, you can pay less than $3 a run, which was the case in three of the four years highlighted). 

I am pretty sure I then plowed all of those savings into the Black Line Tavern but somethings a better-left uncalculated. 


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## drjeff (Feb 13, 2018)

Any snowmaking going to happen on Tali this week (weather permitting obviously)??  My kids are part of the crew scheduled to race now on Sunday instead of the original Monday date in the Southern VT Council U14 slalom race which for their age group is typically on Tali...

Just curious if as parent I'll be making the hike up the to finish area on Tali or if it's might end up on Showoff?  Either way, I'm on skis, and then a bunch of my racer parent friends plan on enjoying the BLT for a while once our kids are done racing for the day


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 13, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Any snowmaking going to happen on Tali this week (weather permitting obviously)??  My kids are part of the crew scheduled to race now on Sunday instead of the original Monday date in the Southern VT Council U14 slalom race which for their age group is typically on Tali...
> 
> Just curious if as parent I'll be making the hike up the to finish area on Tali or if it's might end up on Showoff?  Either way, I'm on skis, and then a bunch of my racer parent friends plan on enjoying the BLT for a while once our kids are done racing for the day



Do work would know better. But my guess is even if they do blow snow this week, given the forecast and the time necessary to let man-made snow properly settle, that the race would be on Show Off. 


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 13, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Any snowmaking going to happen on Tali this week (weather permitting obviously)??  My kids are part of the crew scheduled to race now on Sunday instead of the original Monday date in the Southern VT Council U14 slalom race which for their age group is typically on Tali...
> 
> Just curious if as parent I'll be making the hike up the to finish area on Tali or if it's might end up on Showoff?  Either way, I'm on skis, and then a bunch of my racer parent friends plan on enjoying the BLT for a while once our kids are done racing for the day



The race will be on Show Off and had to move it to Sunday as no head timekeeper could make it on Monday. In terms of weather, it pretty much SUCKS with almost no window to even make snow. Our guys are now at upper Wizard and chute area making up for lost snow due to Last weekend's weather. We hope to get a little shot in on Talisman later on Friday but weather window closing fast. This time period has just gone south on us (literally). But we will do what we can whenever Mother Nature  lets us. 



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## drjeff (Feb 13, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> The race will be on Show Off and had to move it to Sunday as no head timekeeper could make it on Monday. In terms of weather, it pretty much SUCKS with almost no window to even make snow. Our guys are now at upper Wizard and chute area making up for lost snow due to Last weekend's weather. We hope to get a little shot in on Talisman later on Friday but weather window closing fast. This time period has just gone south on us (literally). But we will do what we can whenever Mother Nature  lets us.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Thanks for the update, and me and my family, and a slew of racer families all across the Southern VT Council, truly appreciate all the efforts you and your crew put into an event at Magic!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 13, 2018)

Appreciate that. Thanks 


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 13, 2018)

Majic is one of the few mts making snow today.Hats off!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 13, 2018)

Just wish the cold would hang around for Wednesday and Thursday to finish off Tali too. Looks like Friday night to start that.


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## MG Skier (Feb 13, 2018)

I meant to do a trip report but I did not. I really enjoyed my first visit to Magic last Saturday February 9th. (Racers and a temporary shut down of black chair aside.) Since it was my first visit and only day two of my skiing season, I was cautious about what i chose to ski. The grooming was excellent (Pre rain) I was impressed with all the groomers! I did venture into some natural trails Tali was one, and there was plenty of snow for me to have fun, I actually had the slope to myself! (I'm not fast). I popped into a rather flat glade and got bogged down in sticky snow, hope to return to do further glade exploration.

Since I purchased 2 passes at the ski show I will most definitely will be back and would even go without the pre purchased pass. Plus, I didn't do the Black Line Tavern as I had a long drive home and I was alone.....I hear it is a GREAT hang and will not miss it next time out! The mountain is alive and well with many friendly people. I had great conversations in all of my chair rides.

Nice Job Magic, I am enjoying and wearing my new hat with the new logo. Keep it going gang! The small mountain vibe is cool!


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## rocks860 (Feb 13, 2018)

One thing I love about magic is I always end up riding the lift with people who love to chat and I end up having great discussions with people. Rare times when the lift ride seems too short


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## tumbler (Feb 13, 2018)

Was watching mens luge on Sunday morning and a guy in the US silver medal dude's fan section was sporting a Magic hat.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 14, 2018)

So, how is the snow pack fairing?  Looks like a decent chance of 4-5" sat. night > sunday....enough snow on the natural trails for that to mean anything for Sunday?


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## drjeff (Feb 14, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> One thing I love about magic is I always end up riding the lift with people who love to chat and I end up having great discussions with people. Rare times when the lift ride seems too short
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



One can definitely have a CONVERSATION as opposed to just a chat while riding the Red or the Black!  :lol:   And that's a great thing in my book for sure!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 14, 2018)

tnt1234 said:


> So, how is the snow pack fairing?  Looks like a decent chance of 4-5" sat. night > sunday....enough snow on the natural trails for that to mean anything for Sunday?



Oh 5+ that would work nicely for Sunday. No doubt last Sunday's rain and warm temps, plus major traffic last Saturday beat up the natural snow trails (especially steeps). So there's some bare ground between the moguls on a lot of those. 5" would work nicely on the base that's there for East Side Up Your Sleeve, Vertigo, Mystery, White out etc, plus the low angle woods over there (Disappearing Act, seance, white kitten, pixie dust) and also west side (BL, Tali, Sorce, lower Wiz)

Hopefully not too much more damage tomorrow night...



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## tnt1234 (Feb 14, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Oh 5+ that would work nicely for Sunday. No doubt last Sunday's rain and warm temps, plus major traffic last Saturday beat up the natural snow trails (especially steeps). So there's some bare ground between the moguls on a lot of those. 5" would work nicely on the base that's there for East Side Up Your Sleeve, Vertigo, Mystery, White out etc, plus the low angle woods over there (Disappearing Act, seance, white kitten, pixie dust) and also west side (BL, Tali, Sorce, lower Wiz)
> 
> Hopefully not too much more damage tomorrow night...
> 
> ...




Thanks for the intel.

Hoping to get there Sunday then....


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## rocks860 (Feb 14, 2018)

drjeff said:


> One can definitely have a CONVERSATION as opposed to just a chat while riding the Red or the Black!  :lol:   And that's a great thing in my book for sure!



Exactly!


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 14, 2018)

Let's be honest. Magic attracts a more enthusiastic clientele. The conversations would be more interesting anyway.

By contrast usually K-1 gondola is packed with hungover kids speaking in code.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 15, 2018)

I skied yesterday with some locals that haven't skied Magic since the 80s.  They are primarily nordic skiers but wanted to ride the lift.  It was free, so clearly they go their money's worth, but they really enjoyed it.  

While we are on the subject, a main difference they noticed was the relaxed ride up Red.  They felt it really set a great tone for the whole mountain in that they didn't seem rushed or feel frantic as they normally do at Stratton or even Bromley.  They love the 'old school vibe' the mountain has everywhere and thought the skiing was great.  Brownie did a great job grooming and they were excited to return when more terrain was open. Maybe they will even pay next time!


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## Euler (Feb 18, 2018)

Skied Magic today from about 9-2 with my daughter.  Another fabulous day!  I was so grateful to have a fun alternative to the crowds and scraped off boilerplate that awaited me at the big resorts.  Talisman was absolutely great...lots of blown in snow, big bumps, a bit of scrape between the bumps and a few briar stalks and a rock here ant there to keep it real! Natural trails on the east side were also pretty fun...anywhere else and the amount of ice would have been disconcerting, but somehow at Magic, with the trails to oneself most of the time, plenty of room to turn, and the loose snow from last night not totally scraped off, an icy trail is just super fun...a chance to practice some technical skills, keep aware while looking for the right line to go through the little piles of loose snow where a turn can be made.   Snowmaking trails on the east side had good coverage and much less ice.  Considering the weather we've had the skiing was great!

The place was full today.  There were lots of racers and their families and plenty of other there sampling the goods.  Both lifts ran smoothly all day long and it was great to see a 3 minute line form at both lifts!  Lodge was full, lots of people spending lots of money on food, beverage, and merchandise I hope.

One the red chair we saw a hilarious sticker...if the management keeps up the great work they've done over the past two years, maybe this won't be the joke for long....hope we'll be able to enjoy this magical place for a long time to come.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 18, 2018)

Less trails @ Magic = more trails elsewhere.

Glad you had a good one out there.


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2018)

I was part of the racer families there today, and it was a fun day on the hill, with a bunch of powder turns! 

And the BLT was a blast today with a cool band!! 

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## makimono (Feb 21, 2018)

Really fun day at Magic, thx for throwing the Beach Party! T-shirts and palm trees in February in VT  The East Side snowmaking trails were all excellent at least until 2:30, soft and fast not sticky (surprisingly) even the patches of exposed base ice were soft and manageable (that's probably not a good thing huh?). The non-snowmaking trails...:sad:... they've gone to the big mud bog in the sky (or Lot A).


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 25, 2018)

Magic’s dedication to service. JamicaMan (Magic’s President) oversees torchlight until the wee hours of the morning and is shoveling snow first thing the following morning. 





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## Euler (Feb 25, 2018)

Skiing was excellent on the snowmaking trails on the east side this morning.  When I saw that the predicted wintry mix was probably going to be all snow till mid-day I got up early enough to get there at 8:30 and was one of the first up and down.  a few inches of gritty, sugary fresh made for a really fun half a dozen runs before 11:00.  The combinations of trails available makes it feel like 4 distinct and different ways down on the east side.  Great way to start my day.  Thanks to the Magic management, investors, and all the crew for the work you've done to make this lemonade for us!  I'll be buying my pass at Magic again for next year for sure!


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 5, 2018)

Good map as it highlights our hometown.

Not to be missed!



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## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Good map as it highlights our hometown.
> 
> Not to be missed!
> View attachment 23427
> ...



Nice! 

Weird pattern for accumulation amounts.  I assume they are trying to say that the mountains are going to get more snow.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 5, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> Nice!
> 
> Weird pattern for accumulation amounts.  I assume they are trying to say that the mountains are going to get more snow.
> 
> ...



Also shows another southern, not northern, VT accumulation storm 


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## cdskier (Mar 5, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Also shows another southern, not northern, VT accumulation storm



Supposedly us northern VTers will get some upslope action though after the storm passes to make up for it through Saturday... NWS Burlington says high peaks from K to Jay could do very well. Hope they're right!


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## rocks860 (Mar 5, 2018)

Saturday was excellent, nice to finally meet you geoff


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 5, 2018)

Likewise!


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 6, 2018)

Snow projection is going through the roof! 

Geoff, hope ops gets that Black Lift dialed in cause you're gonna need it!

Joe


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 7, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Good map as it highlights our hometown.
> 
> Not to be missed!
> View attachment 23427
> ...



How’s the back? You are going to have more shoveling to do.


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## makimono (Mar 7, 2018)

Was thinking about using the old "family emergency" thing but decided to just be honest about it


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## LLJ1969 (Mar 7, 2018)

yes, love this


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## caribchakita (Mar 8, 2018)

Scouring the internet..without a doubt, head to Magic or Snow..they are revealing some serious snow...Heading to the Caribbean, will be the snow sacrificial lamb...bye until early April...feeling rather inspired for sun and sand, right now


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## Euler (Mar 8, 2018)

I'm another sacrifice for the cause 

I'm heading to South Carolina today.  Hard to believe I'll miss the biggest single day snow in SoVT I can ever remember.   I'm just trying to tell myself I don't have the skills to ski powder that deep anyway.


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## makimono (Mar 8, 2018)

Wow today was redonkulous!


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## rocks860 (Mar 9, 2018)

How’s it looking for tomorrow at magic? I already bought my ticket


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 9, 2018)

Black is not running. That will give you a brief rest in line so you can actually last the day!


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Mar 9, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> Black is not running. That will give you a brief rest in line so you can actually last the day!



"Brief" that's funny![emoji38]
It gonna be a shitshow tomorrow. And I'll be part of it! I predict 20 minute waits at peak. I'll happily eatmy words if I'm wrong [emoji16]


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 9, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> How’s it looking for tomorrow at magic? I already bought my ticket



Enjoy it dude. More than plenty of snow everywhere. Probably will be lines. Don't waste runs on warm ups or whatever. Make every run count, they will be in rare condition.


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## rocks860 (Mar 9, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Enjoy it dude. More than plenty of snow everywhere. Probably will be lines. Don't waste runs on warm ups or whatever. Make every run count, they will be in rare condition.



Never waste a run, was there last weekend and it was fantastic so I can only imagine what tomorrow will be like


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 9, 2018)

Magic's website for hours says Saturday 8:30-4pm, but their status update says the Red Chair starts spinning tomorrow at 9am.  Odd. 

 Anyone know which is correct?


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## urungus (Mar 10, 2018)

From this mornings report:

The Red Chair will spin at 8:30am. Handle tow and Carpet lift by 9:30, and Black Chair as of 10:00 as back-up. We will be limiting ticket sales to around 1000 for tomorrow given the more limited uphill capacity of Black Chair so we can try to keep lift lines to less than 30 minutes given the demand for all this new fresh snow. It will be a crowded weekend across southern Vermont.


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## Vaughn (Mar 10, 2018)

urungus said:


> From this mornings report:
> 
> The Red Chair will spin at 8:30am. Handle tow and Carpet lift by 9:30, and Black Chair as of 10:00 as back-up. We will be limiting ticket sales to around 1000 for tomorrow given the more limited uphill capacity of Black Chair so we can try to keep lift lines to less than 30 minutes given the demand for all this new fresh snow. It will be a crowded weekend across southern Vermont.



Really glad they're doing well but I think I'd rather not go skiing than wait in a 30 minute lift line for a New England height mtn.


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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

Snowing again at the mountain


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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

Line for black is quite long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






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## MommaBear (Mar 10, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Line for black is quite long
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Could be worse - you could be in line at Mount Snow:


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## gmcunni (Mar 10, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> Line for black is quite long



could be worse, could be no line for black and double the line for red.


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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> could be worse, could be no line for black and double the line for red.



Exactly, the line for red was pretty hefty but thank god black is running



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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

MommaBear said:


> Could be worse - you could be in line at Mount Snow:



This makes me never want to go to mount snow


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## makimono (Mar 10, 2018)

That's great that Black's running. I saw Magic capped tickets at 10am today too. I'm at work today but will be back up for pow bumps Sunday AM. Go get it!


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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

The pow bumps are legit. This is talisman from earlier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





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## bdfreetuna (Mar 10, 2018)

Wow that moguled up very nicely!


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## Harvey (Mar 10, 2018)

The bumps at Magic yesterday were incredibly fun. Skied from opening until 2:15 without a break and one more ride at last call. Fantastic day.


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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

Some real nice bumps on sorcerer too


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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2018)

Twilight zone was super fun too


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 10, 2018)

^ Nice pic. Hard to get a shot of that trail that shows the ruggedness and pitch.


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 10, 2018)

Fun day today. Dropped into Warlock for the first time, it was awesome.  Deep, steep, and incredible 3 days after the storm.

There were lines but they seemed manageable. I did some lifty service with my son and people seemed in good spirits. With black loading at half rate, the trails remained open without big crowds. 


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## NYDB (Mar 11, 2018)

My wife reported wait times approx 20 minutes in the afternoon, although they dropped down in the last 2 hours. Anyone know  what is keeping black chair from loading every chair?  Its already a double now its basically a single?

Take that mrg, magic has a single chair too!

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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2018)

Race day at Magic today! 150 kids on the start list. Way more narrow waisted skis on the racks outside the lodge right now than a typical morning at Magic! 

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## JDMRoma (Mar 11, 2018)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Fun day today. Dropped into Warlock for the first time, it was awesome.  Deep, steep, and incredible 3 days after the storm.
> 
> There were lines but they seemed manageable. I did some lifty service with my son and people seemed in good spirits. With black loading at half rate, the trails remained open without big crowds.
> 
> ...



I was there yesterday, first time for me ! Luckily we had a guide for a while, he showed us the goods ! Steep and Deep were the word of the day.
I did see you with your son, he was completely out cold !! Awesome ! he Looked pretty comfy !
what a great place, hope to return on a weekday !


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## rocks860 (Mar 11, 2018)

Yesterday was definitely way more crowded than last weekend but amazingly fun. Vertigo was my first run of the day and it was just full powder bumps and looked like barely anyone had skied it.


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## slatham (Mar 11, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> My wife reported wait times approx 20 minutes in the afternoon, although they dropped down in the last 2 hours. Anyone know  what is keeping black chair from loading every chair?  Its already a double now its basically a single?
> 
> Take that mrg, magic has a single chair too!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using AlpineZone mobile app



Black needs a new drive. It ran at full "double chair" capacity earlier this year but something happened  - no idea what - and they have to run it at 50%. I would presume a new drive is in the plans for this summer, but JM or DW can provide the real details. 

Great snow at Magic this weekend and it looks like more this week. After a frustrating, bi-polar winter it is good see the snow being delivered. With luck we can keep this going through Easter weekend and Magic can turn this winter into a winner.


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## Vaughn (Mar 11, 2018)

Is the top of Magician open now? That didn't even look close last week even after the dumping a week ago Friday?


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## rocks860 (Mar 11, 2018)

Vaughn said:


> Is the top of Magician open now? That didn't even look close last week even after the dumping a week ago Friday?



Yeah it was open on Saturday. Most of the top was roped off except for the skiers left side


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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2018)

If this Tuesday storm delivers as it is looking like it might now, just everyone do themselves a favor and go to Magic later this week!!  Such a blast today!!


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## makimono (Mar 11, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Race day at Magic today! 150 kids on the start list. Way more narrow waisted skis on the racks outside the lodge right now than a typical morning at Magic!
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



ha I shoulda got a picture...I stopped short when I came around the corner this morning and saw all that neon yellow. It's great seeing all the race kids there with all their home mountain gear on, representing, that's gotta be a blast for them. And honestly even when they came down in a surge and the lines swelled a couple times I don't think I ever waited more than 15 minutes or so. Great great day (couple days) Magic is skiing fat rn


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 11, 2018)

rocks860 said:


> *Twilight zone was super fun* too



I was skiing this weekend with my gf, so I didnt hit all the blacks at Magic, but Twilight Zone was a ton of fun.  Just a classic New England mogul run with an interesting diagonal fall-line, and I love the fact the "lawyers" havent cut all the trees down in the middle of the trail.  Sadly, these sort of trails are rarer than a 3-legged albino deer today, most have been neutered or destroyed at some point (SEE: Liftline @ Stowe).




rocks860 said:


> Yesterday was definitely way more crowded than last weekend but amazingly fun. *Vertigo was my first run of the day and it was just full powder bumps and looked like barely anyone had skied it.*



And this was my favorite intermediate trail.  I must have skied Vertigo 10 times between yesterday and today.  Saturday morning I was in line right after the lift opened and that was my first run as well.  Just fantastic powdery moguls.  It was my last run today as well, and though the powder was obviously gone, the moguls were still in fantastic shape, and this was a bit after 3pm.


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## slatham (Mar 12, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I was skiing this weekend with my gf, so I didnt hit all the blacks at Magic, but Twilight Zone was a ton of fun.  Just a classic New England mogul run with an interesting diagonal fall-line, and I love the fact the "lawyers" havent cut all the trees down in the middle of the trail.  Sadly, these sort of trails are rarer than a 3-legged albino deer today, most have been neutered or destroyed at some point (SEE: Liftline @ Stowe).
> 
> And this was my favorite intermediate trail.  I must have skied Vertigo 10 times between yesterday and today.  Saturday morning I was in line right after the lift opened and that was my first run as well.  Just fantastic powdery moguls.  It was my last run today as well, and though the powder was obviously gone, the moguls were still in fantastic shape, and this was a bit after 3pm.



Up Your Sleeve to Vertigo one of the most under rated combo's at Magic, and one of the best intermediate runs in SoVT. And both were sweet this weekend!


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## rocks860 (Mar 12, 2018)

slatham said:


> Up Your Sleeve to Vertigo one of the most under rated combo's at Magic, and one of the best intermediate runs in SoVT. And both were sweet this weekend!



Vertigo was closed last weekend but up your sleeve was insane. Over a foot of fresh snow and no one was skiing it for some reason. I believe there was a thin cover sign but it was anything but


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2018)

I did Up Your Sleeve a number of times (that was the gf's favorite trail), but once a decent mogul field developed on Medium to skier's right I kept going down that run instead.  Both were in fantastic shape.  Skier's left of Medium was getting a bit skied off by Sunday afternoon, but still fine.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 12, 2018)

This thread needs some more pics.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 12, 2018)

awesome! probably hitting magic on sunday


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> *This thread needs some more pics.*



This was taken in the Disappearing Act woods, sometime Saturday afternoon


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## rocks860 (Mar 12, 2018)

This was vertigo Saturday morning
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





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## JoeB-Z (Mar 12, 2018)

When open they rope Master Magician that way because there are springs on skiers right. What looks like a mogul can be a knob of ice. I usually ski this once when open but chickened out due to injury recovery issues.



rocks860 said:


> Yeah it was open on Saturday. Most of the top was roped off except for the skiers left side
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## makimono (Mar 12, 2018)

Icing down my knees for a hopeful round 3. Wednesday anyone?


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## slatham (Mar 12, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> When open they rope Master Magician that way because there are springs on skiers right. What looks like a mogul can be a knob of ice. I usually ski this once when open but chickened out due to injury recovery issues.



There are also several, oversized rocks top middle and right. There is also the snowmaking pipe. All of this makes any entrance other than skiers left a major disaster for all but the experienced local.

And the springs too....

Unless I am with someone who has skied it, I always look UP the trail from Heart of Magician/Broomstick before I go DOWN Magician for the first time.


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## rocks860 (Mar 12, 2018)

Yeah Craig at the bar said we should skied it but it was a pass for me. Especially after the beers I was drinking


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## madriverjack (Mar 12, 2018)

I'm definitely hitting magic Wednesday, debating if I should go up Tuesday night or drive up in the morning 

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## RustyGroomer (Mar 12, 2018)

You Mad River boys coming to steal our snow again.  Skied with this one Friday.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 13, 2018)

They can steal all they want. Gonna take a big effort to make a dent. 16" at the stake this afternoon with plenty more coming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir_llzp5zY4



RustyGroomer said:


> You Mad River boys coming to steal our snow again.  Skied with this one Friday.
> View attachment 23511


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## IceEidolon (Mar 13, 2018)

I'll be there for Wednesday, is there a preferred spot in the lot so as to not mess up any plowing?

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## NYDB (Mar 13, 2018)

^Right under the deck at BLT  is the usual spot


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 13, 2018)

slatham said:


> There are also several, oversized rocks top middle and right. There is also the snowmaking pipe. All of this makes any entrance other than skiers left a major disaster for all but the experienced local.
> 
> And the springs too....
> 
> Unless I am with someone who has skied it, I always look UP the trail from Heart of Magician/Broomstick before I go DOWN Magician for the first time.



Tree line skiers-right on Magician was absolutely killer. And will be again tomorrow


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## Harvey (Mar 13, 2018)

My first time at Magic was Friday. I had the time of my life:

http://nyskiblog.com/magic-for-the-first-time/






Photo courtesy Rusty Groomer


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## Raabi (Mar 13, 2018)

Any projected closing day? We made it up from outside Philly for our second time to Magic during Riley. Skied some of my favorite runs ever! I have been glued to the website following all the recent snow reports and posts since we left. We’d love to make another weekend trip but it doesn’t look like it would be til April.


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## makimono (Mar 13, 2018)

Harvey said:


> My first time at Magic was Friday. I had the time of my life:
> 
> http://nyskiblog.com/magic-for-the-first-time/
> 
> ...


Love this!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 14, 2018)

Such a pleasure to ski with you Harvey.  Thanks for a great write up.  Come back soon my friend.

Harvey shreddin' Magic.


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## Harvey (Mar 14, 2018)

Ha! Maybe sooner than you think!  You guys will have a great day today, so jelly.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 14, 2018)

Raabi said:


> Any projected closing day? We made it up from outside Philly for our second time to Magic during Riley. Skied some of my favorite runs ever! I have been glued to the website following all the recent snow reports and posts since we left. We’d love to make another weekend trip but it doesn’t look like it would be til April.



April 7/8 is typical time frame for us...then we may just open for pow days if it keeps dumping into April!


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 14, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Ha! Maybe sooner than you think!  You guys will have a great day today, so jelly.



Anytime Harvey! Good to meet you and appreciate the write-up!


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## makimono (Mar 14, 2018)

Getting spoiled over here. What a relentlessly awesome 2 week period! Foot and a half fresh this morning and the opening line for Red was 1/2 of what it was last Thursday and after that it was basically ski on all day. This was some really light snow too, lighter than last storm. Snowed all day and several more inches tonight? And tomorrow (Thursday) is still $29 Throwback pricing.


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## Raabi (Mar 15, 2018)

Thanks! Hope we can swing that, could use some soft spring bump skiing in my life.


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## Harvey (Mar 15, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Anytime Harvey! Good to meet you and appreciate the write-up!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



SUNNNNNDAYYY!

Hope to see you then.


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## The Sneak (Mar 16, 2018)

So how's Saturday (tmrw) looking?
I see there's an event going on. What kind of lines are we looking at? Will Black be running?
Really hoping to hit Magic tmrw but am nervous about crowds and lines....having spent last wknd in line @ Stratton I'm not sure if I am up for a repeat of that....


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 16, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> So how's Saturday (tmrw) looking?
> I see there's an event going on. What kind of lines are we looking at? Will Black be running?
> Really hoping to hit Magic tmrw but am nervous about crowds and lines....having spent last wknd in line @ Stratton I'm not sure if I am up for a repeat of that....



Saturday will be busy no doubt. Hopefully keep lines to 15-20 minutes max. We will control Day ticket sales at 1000 to help keep it manageable


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 16, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Saturday will be busy no doubt. Hopefully keep lines to 15-20 minutes max. Red and black. We will control Day ticket sales at 1000 to help keep it manageable
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone






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## ShadyGrove (Mar 16, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Saturday will be busy no doubt. Hopefully keep lines to 15-20 minutes max. We will control Day ticket sales at 1000 to help keep it manageable
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



^^^Any chance black will be running, JM?


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 16, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> ^^^Any chance black will be running, JM?



Yes it will be running


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## The Sneak (Mar 16, 2018)

Thank you sir
See you in the AM


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## NYDB (Mar 16, 2018)

So much fun there today. 

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## Euler (Mar 17, 2018)

Very busy this morning.  I was there for opening bell at 8:45 and only got in 3 runs before I had to leave at 11:00.  Granted, I was going slowly 'cause I kind of suck at steeps, moguls, and trees and I'm trying to improve, but there's no denying the lies were long AF.  Black got going a bit after 10:00, but they have to load it as if it were a single...2 people on every other chair.  Nonetheless, I had a fantastic morning!  I had just been up at Bolton Valley where I felt like king of the mountain with my mad skillz....I dropped into Goniff for my first run this morning and had a quick reminder of what steep really is and how far I have to go in terms of room for improvement in my skiing.  It was great to see the crowd there, and I'm sure that the mgmt will get Black's issues sorted out over the summer.  Both shots below are Goniff...It was just stunning in the morning sunlight today.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 17, 2018)

Euler said:


> *Very busy this morning.  I was there for opening bell at 8:45 and only got in 3 runs before I had to leave at 11:00.*



Yikes.

That was the problem with Magic that I experienced last weekend as well.  Really the only blemish I could truly find at the place.  That said, I imagine Sunday through Friday it's likely the easy choice in Southern Vermont.


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## prsboogie (Mar 18, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yikes.
> 
> That was the problem with Magic that I experienced last weekend as well.  Really the only blemish I could truly find at the place.  That said, I imagine Sunday Thursday and Friday it's likely the easy choice in Southern Vermont.



Fify!

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## IceEidolon (Mar 18, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> Fify!
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Don't forget assorted holidays and powder days!

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## The Sneak (Mar 18, 2018)

It was great skiing there yesterday, easily my best day of the year. Wish Black chair was squared away. 

Skied to last chair - 5 PM. Run of the day for me was Green line to disappearing act. 


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## mriceyman (Mar 18, 2018)

Hopefully over off season they can get the black up to snuff.. if they can get that loading as at least a consistent double chair then they will be in great shape for next year


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## IceEidolon (Mar 18, 2018)

I'm still optimistic that Black and Green will both be up next year. No inside knowledge, just optimism.

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## gmcunni (Mar 18, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> I'm still optimistic that Black and Green will both be up next year. No inside knowledge, just optimism.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk



maybe they should buy a new chair and paint it black?  (i know, easy to spend money that's not mine  )


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## IceEidolon (Mar 18, 2018)

I expect better value could be gotten by replacing the drive terminal or even just the main motor, letting Black load as a triple again. 

The extra money from higher ticket sales on Limit Days probably isn't enough to justify full replacement. 

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## p_levert (Mar 18, 2018)

JM- With the last couple of weekends at capacity, you guys must be back above your season projections, right?

This weather has been a lifesaver for the VT ski industry.  And things still look good for next weekend as well (a little early, I know).


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 18, 2018)

A few from today.


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## p_levert (Mar 18, 2018)

Nice shots RG!

How were the lift lines today?


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## The Sneak (Mar 18, 2018)

A few more pics from Saturday..that’s me with the fancy pants goggles n blue jacket on the left, getting off the chair...


















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## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> A few more pics from Saturday..that’s me with the fancy pants goggles n blue jacket on the left, getting off the chair...



Good lord, this is even worse than last week.

Last Saturday the worst it got was about equal to start of the Green lift.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2018)

can't blame the people for trying to ski. and good for magic making money. they have a billboard on i91, and have been getting such good press and social media talk... will be there in one week


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## moresnow (Mar 18, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Good lord, this is even worse than last week.
> 
> Last Saturday the worst it got was about equal to start of the Green lift.



If you don't like lines, don't ski Saturday. Mid-week is when to ski, if you can swing it.


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## NYDB (Mar 19, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> Hopefully over off season they can get the black up to snuff.. if they can get that loading as at least a consistent double chair then they will be in great shape for next year
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Agreed 100%

That's really all they need and still keep the slopes not crowded on the way down.  

If you know on the weekends and holidays (when the mountain is 100% open) both chairs are spinning 8:30 am that's a huge difference for me (speaking as a 1st time seasons pass holder)


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## ShadyGrove (Mar 19, 2018)

The lines were long all over VT on Saturday.  If you think that going to Mt. Snow, Stratton, or Bromley would have gotten you better runs, value, etc. you are kidding yourself. 

Magic also deserves props for keeping the chair running until 5pm during the Spring.

That being said, once Black and/or Green get running, it's going to be awesome for both the operations and the customer.


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## NYDB (Mar 19, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> The lines were long all over VT on Saturday.  If you think that going to Mt. Snow, Stratton, or Bromley would have gotten you better runs, value, etc. you are kidding yourself.
> 
> Magic also deserves props for keeping the chair running until 5pm during the Spring.
> 
> That being said, once Black and/or Green get running, it's going to be awesome for both the operations and the customer.



Who said that?


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## Vaughn (Mar 19, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> can't blame the people for trying to ski. and good for magic making money. they have a billboard on i91, and have been getting such good press and social media talk... will be there in one week



No of course no-one should be blamed here but Magic is developing the problem (a good one I suppose) of being too popular for capacity. I was there two weeks ago in the first heavy snowstorm and it was fantastic. Loved it. It was also empty. But I'm just not going to go skiing anywhere where I have to wait 30 minutes for a lift, a slow lift at that so I can't see going there on a weekend anytime soon. Hopefully the bumper March can fund restoration to full functionality of the second lift which would do a lot. I'd also recommend raising prices on Saturdays to better fund improvements.


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## Vaughn (Mar 19, 2018)

moresnow said:


> If you don't like lines, don't ski Saturday. Mid-week is when to ski, if you can swing it.



Yeah, there's no line at all on Wednesdays.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 19, 2018)

Once Magic has 2 lifts running it won't be a problem even on the busiest days.

Once Green is in action it won't even be part of the conversation.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 19, 2018)

moresnow said:


> *If you don't like lines, don't ski Saturday. *



Hmmmmm.... well, there's an idea, let me think about that.....no, no I'll still ski on Saturday thank you very much.  

But I tend to strategically choose where to ski on Saturday to best minimize or alleviate crowding.  Live and learn.


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## makimono (Mar 19, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> A few from today.
> View attachment 23570
> View attachment 23571
> View attachment 23572




Love it RG! These pics needed a bump, still getting fresh tracks like that 4 days after a storm? And the day _after_ one of the busier days of the year? That's Magic!


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## cdskier (Mar 19, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Hmmmmm.... well, there's an idea, let me think about that.....no, no I'll still ski on Saturday thank you very much.
> 
> But I tend to strategically choose where to ski on Saturday to best minimize or alleviate crowding.  Live and learn.



Yea. Not skiing Saturday is a great idea with the simple exception of that's when most of us are "forced" to ski due to work. I'd love to ski midweek and be able to skip the weekends, but with a regular job that just doesn't work out so well.


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## slatham (Mar 19, 2018)

Magic fully expected Black to be operating at least as a double this winter. Until the health issues hit George (RIP) there were reasonable expectations that Green would be running too. 

In the scenario with both these lifts running I personally don't think there would have been lines this winter, even with no cap on sales (my assessment does not hold for future years with continued success).

The above Monday morning, arm-chair quarterbacking I think (as one myself) is spot on: Assuming Green in running, is the incremental cost of replacing Black offer a payback in terms of incremental ticket sales vs. the cost of a new drive/motor/whatever? On the other hand, how wise is it to put money into a lift that in my opinion has to be replaced in the next X number of years, and in the meantime - even with a new drive/motor - is at risk of having other issues? 

I don't know, and none of you do either (well, ok, two of you do). But it is not an easy decision, and either one is a leap of faith. As if the New England weather wasn't enough of a ski area management headache!

But if you want to know the character of the operator, you just saw it. Lift problem? Communicate issue, limit sales, stay open late, open early, be present with your clientele.


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## Vaughn (Mar 19, 2018)

*Paging Robin Hood*

We need someone to creep in the Hermitage over the summer and swap out their lift motors.


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## IceEidolon (Mar 19, 2018)

You could probably run all three lifts off their bubble six's drive!

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## JamaicaMan (Mar 19, 2018)

We've already put well over 6 figures into the Black Chair and the reliability has not been as promised. Very disappointing return to say the least. Not a lot of real good options short term from a business stand point. We want a reliable 2nd lift to the top for these busy Saturdays--BTW, why don't folks come Sundays? Lol. Lots less traffic and no work excuse.  We will explore our options for the offseason. Shorter term new drive, com line etc that gets us a few more years out of Black or a bigger investment that avoids the sink hole but has a much longer term payout. Short term is riskier from a performance standpoint; the long term option carries the risk of not getting the larger investment back. Not easy decisions for a small, independent mountain...


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## Rowsdower (Mar 19, 2018)

Either pay now or pay later. That lift needs replaced at some point.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 19, 2018)

Also love the opinion that magic is becoming too popular for its capacity...that is pretty much every major resort on a Saturday holiday or Saturday after snowfall like this March. 45 min-hour long lines and crowded slopes. (And no one remembers all the other average Saturdays when we only need a single lift because no one shows up despite pretty decent conditions.) But a 30 minute line at Magic if a lift goes down on a snowfilled Saturday is somehow horrific. These big resorts oversell all the time. We make every attempt not to do that, always watching ticket sales and the lift lines. No one does that....and no resort, even us, can anticipate ahead of time when a lift will go down for mechanical or other undetermined reasons.


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## prsboogie (Mar 19, 2018)

JM thanks for the honest up front postings. I wish others would take a page from your book and do the same. I hope to see a green lift next year, it will allow me to get the wife to ski magic and not be petrified!! I want to get my family there in the worst way. 

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## JamaicaMan (Mar 19, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> JM thanks for the honest up front postings. I wish others would take a page from your book and do the same. I hope to see a green lift next year, it will allow me to get the wife to ski magic and not be petrified!! I want to get my family there in the worst way.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Yes on Green Lift getting finished for next season


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## NYDB (Mar 20, 2018)

I really appreciate the GM coming on here to discuss.  That really sucks you've invested that much in black to little effect.  Personally, I've only seen bad lines the last couple of weeks.  We were up over the Christmas/New Years holiday and the snow was great and there were little lines.  If the natural snow was more spread out through the season I think the crowds would be less  'surgey'.  

And as far as people not coming on Sunday,   maybe the Magic crowd skews very religious and everyone is at church.  



			
				Chester Telegraph said:
			
		

> “Redundancy, reliability and consistency are the key,” he says. And to achieve that, SKI MAGIC is working to bring the Black Line triple chairlift back into service after being down for two years. With two bottom-to-top lifts, there are no lines, no crowds, according to Hatheway. But more important,  if one lift needs to stop, people can still get to the top.
> In future years, a third lift – the Green Line – which was begun early in the past decade, but never completed, will make a mountain that is known for challenging terrain more family- and beginner-friendly as it moves skiers halfway up the mountain to an area where there are less challenging runs.



Sounds like maybe a contractor let you down or the lift wasn't in as good as shape as you thought since it seemed to be your number 1 priority going into this.  Although you only had 100 different priorities I'm sure.  Anyway, I've seen enough this year to buy passes for my family of 4 again for 18/19.  Green would be cool but I'd prefer a reliable Black.  There are easy enough trails off the summit lift for my 5 year old.


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## Vaughn (Mar 20, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Also love the opinion that magic is becoming too popular for its capacity...that is pretty much every major resort on a Saturday holiday or Saturday after snowfall like this March. 45 min-hour long lines and crowded slopes. (And no one remembers all the other average Saturdays when we only need a single lift because no one shows up despite pretty decent conditions.) But a 30 minute line at Magic if a lift goes down on a snowfilled Saturday is somehow horrific. These big resorts oversell all the time. We make every attempt not to do that, always watching ticket sales and the lift lines. No one does that....and no resort, even us, can anticipate ahead of time when a lift will go down for mechanical or other undetermined reasons.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I appreciate my post might have seem like a personal dis on what you've achieved over there or something but it wasn't meant as such - I'm not interested in waiting in line for 30 minutes at any mountain and plan my trips accordingly. That's why I like terrible, cold and icy Cannon (terrible place, no-one go there) and haven't been to Snow or Stratton in 20 years. 

What you have done is very cool and I plan to ski there again several times next year - just not on a Saturday post snowfall, that's all.


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## Harvey (Mar 20, 2018)

I was at Magic Sunday and there was bit of a line. When it came down to it maybe 10 minutes? Maybe 15. We just changed our tactics. Instead of ripped the cord top-to-bottom, we looked for bumps and attacked them.  When you are panting, the first 5 minutes in line are no problem.  :smile:

Reality is that if you want to ski places like Magic, they are going to have to sell some tickets.  I know Plattekill pretty well and March turned this season around financially, from pretty bad to pretty good.  I saw my first ever "lift maze" at Platty this month!  When I see lines like that at Plattekill or Magic I smile.


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## jmarble (Mar 20, 2018)

We also skied Magic on Sunday and the line wasn't too bad even with the race going on.  Loved the terrain.  Heart of Magician was the run of the day for us.  Already bought tickets for this Sunday.


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## kingslug (Mar 20, 2018)

Havent been to Magic in many years but want to. As far as lines and waiting in them. Music in the helmet. Works for me..Stowe has some serious lines...


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## Euler (Mar 20, 2018)

I'm eager to buy my pass for next year and help fund this summers work!  When will pricing be announced?


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## The Sneak (Mar 20, 2018)

Honestly the line Saturday was 10-15 minutes, I was timing it. Looked much worse than it felt. Look I was at Mount Sneaux yesterday and racked up 20something thousand vertical ft in a few hours of fast firm groomers, no lift lines, and that bubble chair.

But guess which ski day is the one I keep thinking about and which place I can’t wait to get back to?....


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## Tin (Mar 20, 2018)

Vaughn said:


> Magic is developing the problem (a good one I suppose) of being too popular for capacity.





Vaughn said:


> But I'm just not going to go skiing anywhere where I have to wait 30 minutes for a lift, a slow lift at that so I can't see going there on a weekend anytime soon. Hopefully the bumper March can fund restoration to full functionality of the second lift which would do a lot. I'd also recommend raising prices on Saturdays to better fund improvements.



I'm not sure dumber shit has been posted. Stick to Mountain Snow or Stratton.


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## Vaughn (Mar 20, 2018)

Tin said:


> I'm not sure dumber shit has been posted. Stick to Mountain Snow or Stratton.



Ah, someone new to reading. Go fight someone at Hunter.


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## JimG. (Mar 20, 2018)

Vaughn said:


> Ah, someone new to reading. Go fight someone at Hunter.



OMG what does Hunter have to do with any of this?

What whenever we kick shit at something we need to kick some at Hunter too?


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## drjeff (Mar 21, 2018)

JimG. said:


> OMG what does Hunter have to do with any of this?
> 
> What whenever we kick shit at something we need to kick some at Hunter too?



Let me take a stab at this......  

In the minds of many Hunter ='s corporate.... Corporate ='s crowded and must come up with some funky resort nickname..... Crowded ='s the mountain must suck just because it's crowded... Hunter sucks    

Now the fact that Magic is having some success (and I for 1 am THRILLED for their crowds and increased business volume lately!!) Magic is having some of those other things (lift lines, occasional lift issues, you know things that most skis areas that are able to stay in business will have from time to time  ) that some people can't grasp and feel like their shouldn't have to deal with just because...  It's kind of like what's going on with the beer culture right now... A small brewery makes a GREAT new beer... People who were fortunate enough because of proximity often to the brewery got to experience first, and then because they want the brewery to succeed, talk it up.  The brewery starts seeing more and more demand and success, an almost cult like following begins, and then those who "arrived late to the game" finally get to experience it, and they then feel on some levels that they need to complain because, while really, really, really good, it didn't live up to the hype that they hoped for....  Kind of like getting non stop, untracked runs down Red Line or Black line at Magic in 18" of pure blower powder and you're the only one there since you heard that it's always empty.....  Most of that can happen when the cards are in place, the "crowds" though, while far less than most other mountains, will still be there, and that is a disappointment to some!

I honestly hope that Geoff Hathaway has to make the call to stop selling walk up tickets as much as possible, and that people have to wait in what often isn't much more that a 10 minute line on the Red and/or Black if it's running as many days as possible until the snow finally melts out this season. The success is well deserved for all the hard work and at times big adversities that have had to be overcome this season! We all should be openly grateful for the success that Magic is having and the track that it's on now, rather than selfishly bemoan having to wait in some lift lines to get to enjoy that special terrain in great snow conditions!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 21, 2018)

THe slow lift comment cracks me up every time.  That slow lift even with liftlines will crush anyone if they ski Magic like it's skiing now.  

I guess i never put this one up.

Tin


One of me.  Tin pic.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 21, 2018)

nobody is selfishly bemoaning anything. Guy just posted the obvious and looking for some discussion on it. Any other ski area that comment was made about nobody would jump his throat over it.

For me I love Magic but I will probably go there more often than I do now when they build out snowmaking capacity and get Black running. I realize that statement can be taken as hate speech by some.

That said I was at Magic on what was probably the longest line all year and it was a good time and the line moved pretty quick anyway. I don't worry about it a lot when heading there... but with Black running it wouldn't even cross my mind.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 21, 2018)

Jump his throat?


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 21, 2018)

I'm saying it's a reasonable discussion not the "dumbest comment ever made on the forum" or whatever

not that I care to have it; my thoughts are short on this and it's already been discussed repeatedly


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 21, 2018)

ok.  Just "jump his throat" was a little extreme as well.  My post anyway.  No worries of course.  We should all ski.


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## rtjcbrown (Mar 21, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I'm saying it's a reasonable discussion not the "dumbest comment ever made on the forum" or whatever
> 
> not that I care to have it; my thoughts are short on this and it's already been discussed repeatedly



*I agree. Everyone has different expectations for their ski experience, and he was expressing what his priorities were. People on the Stratton board might think I'm an ass for saying the gondola line is not worth the trade-off for the warm ride. Doesn't make me wrong to prefer a cold chair. 
As for raising the price for Saturday, it is no different than Uber surge pricing model. I wouldn't do it, but doesn't make them wrong if they do. 
*


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 21, 2018)

More. Hardly ever see pics of me.  Bankmang pic.

The camera really does add 20 lbs when it's tucked into your jacket.  Haha


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 21, 2018)

i wasn't referring to you even in the slightest my friend. Had a Magic dream last night , starting to remember it now... funny I always end up at certain places in my dreams.

Hope to be up there for real this week , maybe next


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 21, 2018)

i'll be skiing Friday-Sunday this week.  Same next i think.  See above.  Say hello.


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## Harvey (Mar 21, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> View attachment 23614



This pic FTW. Dig it!


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## makimono (Mar 21, 2018)

Yes! Tin went Hi-Line in Hi-Viz for the winning shot! 

And that RG pillow shot could be a poster in the BLT...


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## JimG. (Mar 21, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Let me take a stab at this......
> 
> In the minds of many Hunter ='s corporate.... Corporate ='s crowded and must come up with some funky resort nickname..... Crowded ='s the mountain must suck just because it's crowded... Hunter sucks
> 
> ...



Or to put it simply, good things come to those who wait.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 21, 2018)

makimono said:


> Yes! Tin went Hi-Line in Hi-Viz for the winning shot!
> 
> And that RG pillow shot could be a poster in the BLT...



Haha.  I am sitting on my ass rather nicely.


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## Harvey (Mar 21, 2018)

JONG question: how do you make the image show and not just link to the attachment?


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## Vaughn (Mar 21, 2018)

Probably not worth engaging but my last point about this (great) mountain is that if the end win for the ski area and the skiers who love it is to have three running lifts, charging $10 more on Saturdays would be make sense to me as a small step towards that. I don't mind paying for something awesome and I'd bet a lot of people share that opinion.


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## jmarble (Mar 22, 2018)

Thinking about season pass @ Magic next season and I was poking around at the Freedom Pass benefit.  According to Coopers website a lot of new areas have been added including Powder Mountain.  http://skicooper.com/cooper-season-passes/ That seems like a pretty good deal to me, hope it's included with Magic.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 22, 2018)

While i do like moguls I'm not afraid to admit i'm happy to have a little grooming for a break.

Talisman per Magic FB.


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## madriverjack (Mar 22, 2018)

I like that they only groomed part of talisman. It's a great way for people to learn to ski bumps and get out when they want.

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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 22, 2018)

hitting up magic sunday. stoked.


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## prsboogie (Mar 22, 2018)

makimono said:


> Yes! Tin went Hi-Line in Hi-Viz for the winning shot!
> 
> And that RG pillow shot could be a poster in the BLT...


That should be next seasons billboard!! Great shot guys

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## prsboogie (Mar 22, 2018)

Harvey said:


> JONG question: how do you make the image show and not just link to the attachment?


From the app or computer?

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## Harvey (Mar 22, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> From the app or computer?
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Computer. Never used the app.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 22, 2018)

heading up with my father who's never been there tomorrow.

He hates moguls but likes woods so we'll see how it goes


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2018)

there is a banked slalom/bbq/music/CAT SKIING event at timber ridge (back side of magic) this Saturday. $15 for cat access for the day. hosted by the old hippies who own the place. i'll be at killington and the brew fest Saturday, and magic sunday, but thought you all might be interested in skiing a NELSAP


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## skimagic (Mar 23, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> there is a banked slalom/bbq/music/CAT SKIING event at timber ridge (back side of magic) this Saturday. $15 for cat access for the day. hosted by the old hippies who own the place. i'll be at killington and the brew fest Saturday, and magic sunday, but thought you all might be interested in skiing a NELSAP



This sounds awesome!  Any link to this event?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2018)

I got a random email last week from "PatrolUSA" advertising it. no link. but safe to say just show up at timber ridge on Saturday if you want to participate.


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## urungus (Mar 23, 2018)

Also on Saturday is the annual “Spring Fling” party at Magic itself.  Event of the year IMO.  Flamingo toss off the red chair, snow bar at sunshine corner, free timed race, etc.


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## Smellytele (Mar 23, 2018)

urungus said:


> Also on Saturday is the annual “Spring Fling” party at Magic itself.  Event of the year IMO.  Flamingo toss off the red chair, snow bar at sunshine corner, free timed race, etc.



Then ski down the other side and take a couple of cat runs for $15


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Then ski down the other side and take a couple of cat runs for $15



the opportunity to get a cheap ride back up to ski back to the car at magic is most tempting, but I'm uber committed to killington saturday. got beer fest tickets and a group of friends.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 23, 2018)

Good time up there today. Kind of firm in the morning but East side was groomed really well so took a lot of runs over there. Sun came out and softened the rest of the mountain up.

Plenty of snow in the woods. Best runs were all the fresh groomed East side plus Goniff, Twilight Zone, Talisman was a nice chalky surface... Wardrobe had plenty of snow and nice and surfy in there

Very few people there today but I always assume Friday is the slow day at Magic

My Dad went his first time, he always thought he wouldn't like Magic but ended up really having a good time and liking the terrain

Lots of snow up there and even the firmer spots you could stick your pole through to powder/packed powder... the moguls were pretty soft as well

As usual I didn't recognize who is who in terms of folks I'd say hi to... not really my style to go around and say hey you on AlpineZone?  lol


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## skimagic (Mar 23, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I got a random email last week from "PatrolUSA" advertising it. no link. but safe to say just show up at timber ridge on Saturday if you want to participate.



I leaning towards going.  Is the cat for any skiing or just for the race?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2018)

skimagic said:


> I leaning towards going.  Is the cat for any skiing or just for the race?



appears to be all day. home now, able to link this:


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## Scruffy (Mar 23, 2018)

Was there Thursday. Good snow; still pow in the woods.


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## urungus (Mar 23, 2018)

urungus said:


> Also on Saturday is the annual “Spring Fling” party at Magic itself.  Event of the year IMO.  Flamingo toss off the red chair, snow bar at sunshine corner, free timed race, etc.


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 27, 2018)

Last Saturday did not suck... 




Fun race, sunshine corner bar, soft snow, all around awesome. The big boy runs were fun too. But I didn’t stop to take pictures. 


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## urungus (Mar 27, 2018)

Second photo is hilarious!


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## Harvey (Mar 27, 2018)

Nice shots! My only regret: I never got get sunshine corner when it was jamming.  Could still happen!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 27, 2018)

Still my favorite pic of the year. Skiing by I stopped dead in my tracks to take the pic.  Haha.

Can't wait to see & be a small part of these kids Magic future.  Going to be something special for sure.


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 28, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Nice shots! My only regret: I never got get sunshine corner when it was jamming.  Could still happen!



Harvey,  sunshine corner bar will be back this weekend! 


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## Harvey (Mar 28, 2018)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Harvey,  sunshine corner bar will be back this weekend!



I made a deal with an angel, my wife.  In exchange for my daughter's spring break in a god forsaken (southern non-skiing) location, I got to run wild the entire month of March. It was the best month of skiing in my life, and now it's time to pay up. I'm out of the game for this weekend and maybe next weekend too.  If sunshine corner makes it to April 15, I'll be there.

Have a great weekend and post Magic pics. I'll be watching and cheering from the sidelines.


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## mriceyman (Mar 29, 2018)

Harvey said:


> I made a deal with an angel, my wife.  In exchange for my daughter's spring break in a god forsaken (southern non-skiing) location, I got to run wild the entire month of March. It was the best month of skiing in my life, and now it's time to pay up. I'm out of the game for this weekend and maybe next weekend too.  If sunshine corner makes it to April 15, I'll be there.
> 
> Have a great weekend and post Magic pics. I'll be watching and cheering from the sidelines.



Picked a good month to run wild


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## Harvey (Mar 29, 2018)

Haha.. I did look at the long range before I signed on the dotted line.


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## Harvey (Mar 29, 2018)

Magicsnowboard said:


> View attachment 23687



Magic is cool, but the drunks are outta control.


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## Magicsnowboard (Mar 29, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Magic is cool, but the drunks are outta control.



They couldn't even walk home. 


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 7, 2018)

Really great conditions today. Challenging from run to run. The groomed stuff was fine. The west side was really refreshed. Talisman might have had 8" of new snow. Talisman may soften up in the afternoon and that will be really sweet.

I brought my rock skis but that was a waste of effort.

No one was there. Ski on.


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## slatham (Apr 7, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> Really great conditions today. Challenging from run to run. The groomed stuff was fine. The west side was really refreshed. Talisman might have had 8" of new snow. Talisman may soften up in the afternoon and that will be really sweet.
> 
> I brought my rock skis but that was a waste of effort.
> 
> No one was there. Ski on.



Awesome day. Top part of Mountian, including Tali, were definitely 8" and skiing great even with firm underneath. Typical April crowd meant trees were untracked well into the afternoon. 



That's a well known but unmarked tree run at noon (sorry about sideways view but no energy left to try to fix......)


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## bdfreetuna (Apr 7, 2018)

Wow I would be there 100% for closing day tomorrow if not for the flu.

Just checked 30/39 trails and 10/11 glades still open... awesome for April 7th


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## The Sneak (Apr 7, 2018)

Any chance they do one last hurrah next wknd???


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## ss20 (Apr 7, 2018)

Witch-Goniff, Twilight Zone, Up Your Sleeve, Talisman, and the low-angle trees were all awesome.  Easily 8" up top.  Cold enough today to preserve the snow in mid-winter shape...never got sticky like spring snow usually does.  

The lack of crowds was ridiculous.  I skied alone all day and rode up with someone once.  Fresh tracks all day if you wanted them.


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## ss20 (Apr 7, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> Any chance they do one last hurrah next wknd???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It'd be a shame if they close.  Base is crazy crazy deep.


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## The Sneak (Apr 7, 2018)

Fffffff I can’t believe I didn’t go today


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 7, 2018)

All should go tomorrow who can. This is the finest late season skiing I have ever seen on the East Coast. As I am recovering from injury and an old and overweight guy I am just not doing the crazy stuff. Every time I pass by Slide of Hans, which has been open for weeks, I have remorse. 

I'm sure they will close. No one was there, I bet Geoff wants to wrap and show a profit on a fabulous year.





The Sneak said:


> Fffffff I can’t believe I didn’t go today
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IceEidolon (Apr 8, 2018)

Much as I wish they would stay open - I have work stuff this weekend but not next - I really can't blame them. Killington can afford the snow making and marketing to run into June for 1/20 the normal customers. But 1/20 the normal customers for Magic is somewhat more sparse. 

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## ss20 (Apr 8, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> All should go tomorrow who can. This is the finest late season skiing I have ever seen on the East Coast. As I am recovering from injury and an old and overweight guy I am just not doing the crazy stuff. Every time I pass by Slide of Hans, which has been open for weeks, I have remorse.
> 
> I'm sure they will close. No one was there, I bet Geoff wants to wrap and show a profit on a fabulous year.



Looked like mostly season passes, too.  Very few day tickets sold.


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## slatham (Apr 8, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Looked like mostly season passes, too.  Very few day tickets sold.



Exactly. And as a pass holder I can't really fault them for not opening next weekend. Time for them to rest up and start on off season projects.


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## bigbob (Apr 8, 2018)

slatham said:


> Exactly. And as a pass holder I can't really fault them for not opening next weekend. Time for them to rest up and start on off season projects.



 Any info on what will be new and shiny for next season or at least  repaired?


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## IceEidolon (Apr 8, 2018)

bigbob said:


> Any info on what will be new and shiny for next season or at least  repaired?


There was the debate about whether patching, repairing or replacing the Black Lift was the best option.
Green Lift is in the works.
 I assume some snowmaking repairs on Green Lift pipe are planned plus hydrants at the unload and maybe some HKD towers on or near the unload. 
Besides that, there's the expanded pond being taken off stream and increasing the GPM - if the permits come through. 
If that happens I'd hope to see more portable HKD sleds or towers to take advantage of the extra water, especially on the Green Lift trails that can be 100% low energy. If not there are several already, but 750 GPM with maxed out compressors is about balanced for ~45 Viper/Impulse.
Seasonal glading, trail maintenance, and erosion control has to be done.
Post mud season road/lot upkeep.
Seasonal repairs on all the groomers, snowmobiles, Red Lift, Tubbin' Tow, and the Carpet, new compressors, pumps, fan maintenance, filters on the HKDs...
I heard that there may be upgrades to the fan fleet this year as well.

Lots of things.

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## gmcunni (Apr 8, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Looked like mostly season passes, too.  Very few day tickets sold.



I dislike this logic, not just at magic. Penalizing the dedicated because the casual don’t show up.  He prepay because they are dedicated and support the mountain. And ski a lot.


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## slatham (Apr 8, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> I dislike this logic, not just at magic. Penalizing the dedicated because the casual don’t show up.  He prepay because they are dedicated and support the mountain. And ski a lot.



Dude its April 7th! 

The place was pretty empty this weekend, with tons of terrain and powder. Next weekend looks iffy at best. They've already gone long enough, and pushing another weekend will cost them money, money which is more needed for off season upgrades.


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## raisingarizona (Apr 8, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> I dislike this logic, not just at magic. Penalizing the dedicated because the casual don’t show up.  He prepay because they are dedicated and support the mountain. And ski a lot.



Me. Me. Me. What about me!

Have a cup of reality soup son, dedication doesn’t pay for ski area operations.


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 8, 2018)

slatham said:


> Dude its April 7th!
> 
> The place was pretty empty this weekend, with tons of terrain and powder. Next weekend looks iffy at best. They've already gone long enough, and pushing another weekend will cost them money, money which is more needed for off season upgrades.



Thanks Steve. Actually April 8th. That’s our April “approximate” closing date since we took over (last year, this year). Consistent. Count on it every year and save yourself some angst about us not competing with Killington. Some years it will be just a few trails. This year it’s 40. Everyone who wants to run Magic differently needs to step up with some serious money and a real business plan. Laugh Out Loud!

Damn it was a good season close 




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## gmcunni (Apr 8, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> dedication doesn’t pay for ski area operations.



Season passes do


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## raisingarizona (Apr 8, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> Season passes do



I can’t say for sure but I’m guessing season passes are a small percentage of yearly profits. The bottom line is if you want your mountain to make on mountain improvements they can’t be throwing money out the window.


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## slatham (Apr 9, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Thanks Steve. Actually April 8th. That’s our April “approximate” closing date since we took over (last year, this year). Consistent. Count on it every year and save yourself some angst about us not competing with Killington. Some years it will be just a few trails. This year it’s 40. Everyone who wants to run Magic differently needs to step up with some serious money and a real business plan. Laugh Out Loud!
> 
> Damn it was a good season close
> 
> ...



Ha! Yeah forgive me but my head is stuck on April 7th - my last day of the season and an 8" powder day at Magic!?!?! It's going to be April 7th in my mind for a long time........

Great season JM & team. Already bought my pass and I'm ready for volunteer days.


----------



## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> There was the debate about whether patching, repairing or replacing the Black Lift was the best option.
> Green Lift is in the works.
> I assume some snowmaking repairs on Green Lift pipe are planned plus hydrants at the unload and maybe some HKD towers on or near the unload.
> Besides that, there's the expanded pond being taken off stream and increasing the GPM - if the permits come through.
> ...



750 GPM is nowhere near enough water to efficiently run that many HKDs, and I am sure the incredibly intelligent folks at Magic like Geoff and Matt know that (as they are working on rectifying as permits allow). For comparison, at only 700 vertical feet we can barely run our 12 Vipers on higher stages @ 700 GPM (and our pump is rated for that flow rate at 600 psi and 1300' TDH). Forget about running our fan guns or K guns at the same time. It may look like it'll work on paper but once you factor in friction, gravity and blow off losses you need a lot more flow to actually have decent pressure to put out decent snow and not freeze up.


----------



## ShadyGrove (Apr 9, 2018)

slatham said:


> Exactly. And as a pass holder I can't really fault them for not opening next weekend. Time for them to rest up and start on off season projects.



I jokingly gave JM a hard time on Saturday for not staying open another week, but slatham's post is fully accurate and I look forward to next season. 

Great work by all those dedicated employees and volunteers at Magic to make 2017-18 the best season at Magic in decades!


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## Harvey (Apr 9, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> I can’t say for sure but I’m guessing season passes are a small percentage of yearly profits. The bottom line is if you want your mountain to make on mountain improvements they can’t be throwing money out the window.



The GMs I've spoken to have told me ~20% of revenue is attributed to passholders.  It surely varies by mountain.

That information may be old as it came before the rise of mega-passes.

Rock on JM and Magic!


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## tumbler (Apr 9, 2018)

Harvey said:


> The GMs I've spoken to have told me ~20% of revenue is attributed to passholders.  It surely varies by mountain.
> 
> That information may be old as it came before the rise of mega-passes.
> 
> Rock on JM and Magic!



And with pre-sales it gives them money to fund summer capital improvements.


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## bdfreetuna (Apr 9, 2018)

The two times I was able to make it up this year Magic indeed felt like a somewhat improved version of it's former self.

Good job guys and gals. Live long and prosper.


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## Harvey (Apr 9, 2018)

tumbler said:


> And with pre-sales it gives them money to fund summer capital improvements.



A no interest loan at a time when cash flow is zero and investment is required or expected. That's what raises the value above the 20%.


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## Tdizz (Apr 9, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> Season passes do



Nope. Day tickets do. Well, and lessons, rentals, retail and tunings. Your season pass money is spent by summer.


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## raisingarizona (Apr 9, 2018)

Tdizz said:


> Nope. Day tickets do. Well, and lessons, rentals, retail and tunings. Your season pass money is spent by summer.



And let’s not leave out the bar! The mark up on alcohol and food is huge!


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## Tdizz (Apr 9, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> And let’s not leave out the bar! The mark up on alcohol and food is huge!



Ha! I don’t know how on earth I left out the bar. The mountain that I worked at separated the bar/restaurant income from actual mountain operations. I just remember that was never included. I don’t know if that is standard or goes by state or resort


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## RustyGroomer (Apr 10, 2018)

If anyone wants to see my Saturday.  here you go.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/140573-Magic-4-7-Day-before-closing


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## p_levert (Apr 10, 2018)

Getting back to offseason improvements, it does seem that the priority has to be the return of the green chair and snowmaking.  The black chair is a tough one.  If the repairs are extensive, does it make sense to spend on that, when a total replacement would be better?  If the green chair is back, at least there would be two non-trivial lifts.  So that would ease the sting if the black goes down for an extended period.

Just wondering, has anyone ever considered an upper mountain lift?  A lift from the base of Trick to the top would make some sense.  It would be a high altitude lift with a mostly north exposure, so would hold snow well.  The lift would support a bunch of trails ranging from green to black.  Vertical of about 800 ft, so not too bad.  And this would provide another way to get to the top of the mountain (assuming that the green is operational).  And, actually, if you had this upper mountain lift, you wouldn't necessarily need to replace the black chair.

Just throwing out some ideas...


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## mriceyman (Apr 10, 2018)

p_levert said:


> Getting back to offseason improvements, it does seem that the priority has to be the return of the green chair and snowmaking.  The black chair is a tough one.  If the repairs are extensive, does it make sense to spend on that, when a total replacement would be better?  If the green chair is back, at least there would be two non-trivial lifts.  So that would ease the sting if the black goes down for an extended period.
> 
> Just wondering, has anyone ever considered an upper mountain lift?  A lift from the base of Trick to the top would make some sense.  It would be a high altitude lift with a mostly north exposure, so would hold snow well.  The lift would support a bunch of trails ranging from green to black.  Vertical of about 800 ft, so not too bad.  And this would provide another way to get to the top of the mountain (assuming that the green is operational).  And, actually, if you had this upper mountain lift, you wouldn't necessarily need to replace the black chair.
> 
> Just throwing out some ideas...



Kinda like that i just dont think magic will create a whole new lift line. I just wish the ski gods wouldve smiled down this year and let the black run fairly trouble free lol


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## skithetrees (Apr 11, 2018)

p_levert said:


> Getting back to offseason improvements, it does seem that the priority has to be the return of the green chair and snowmaking.  The black chair is a tough one.  If the repairs are extensive, does it make sense to spend on that, when a total replacement would be better?  If the green chair is back, at least there would be two non-trivial lifts.  So that would ease the sting if the black goes down for an extended period.
> 
> Just wondering, has anyone ever considered an upper mountain lift?  A lift from the base of Trick to the top would make some sense.  It would be a high altitude lift with a mostly north exposure, so would hold snow well.  The lift would support a bunch of trails ranging from green to black.  Vertical of about 800 ft, so not too bad.  And this would provide another way to get to the top of the mountain (assuming that the green is operational).  And, actually, if you had this upper mountain lift, you wouldn't necessarily need to replace the black chair.
> 
> Just throwing out some ideas...



In my ski lift builder master plan I would install a lift from the base of talisman to the area between broomstick and the run down to slide of Hans. Either to wizard or up to the true summit. Then cut in some new trails over there to handle the traffic between the wizard traverse ands the top of sorcer/talisman. This keeps experts out of the base area where a small few ski way to fast and eliminates the run out. Not at all necessary at this point, but would be part of my ten year  unlimited money master plan!


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## p_levert (Apr 11, 2018)

skithetrees said:


> In my ski lift builder master plan I would install a lift from the base of talisman to the area between broomstick and the run down to slide of Hans. Either to wizard or up to the true summit. Then cut in some new trails over there to handle the traffic between the wizard traverse ands the top of sorcer/talisman. This keeps experts out of the base area where a small few ski way to fast and eliminates the run out. Not at all necessary at this point, but would be part of my ten year  unlimited money master plan!



I agree, that would also be a good place for a lift.  In my thinking, these options become realistic if the black chair requires a serious overhaul.  Then you start to ask, rather than spend big $$ on a parallel lift, could we do something else which enhances the mountain?  But it all depends on the status of the black.  New lifts presumably also involve approvals, so a definite downside there.  But, all in all, I like your thinking and I agree.


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## makimono (Apr 11, 2018)

That would totally destroy my fav run on the whole mountain


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 11, 2018)

Instead of trying to keep 2 summit lifts running would it make more sense to have 1 used fixed quad instead?I understand it would cost quite a bit more but in the long run I would imagine not as both those lifts are very old.


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## Do Work (Apr 12, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> 750 GPM is nowhere near enough water to efficiently run that many HKDs, and I am sure the incredibly intelligent folks at Magic like Geoff and Matt know that (as they are working on rectifying as permits allow). For comparison, at only 700 vertical feet we can barely run our 12 Vipers on higher stages @ 700 GPM (and our pump is rated for that flow rate at 600 psi and 1300' TDH). Forget about running our fan guns or K guns at the same time. It may look like it'll work on paper but once you factor in friction, gravity and blow off losses you need a lot more flow to actually have decent pressure to put out decent snow and not freeze up.





While that is true and there are many parasitic variables we do have much higher sustained GPM now that we changed out our base area piping to all 8" with minimized angles.  Our new air center will be huge in being able to open early, our increased gallonage will be huge in keeping that pace up and trail count blossoming now that we have tracked down all the major air leaks.  Know anybody looking to get rid of any baby ratnik sleds btw?  (Baby X2s)


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## slatham (Apr 12, 2018)

Ok since some of us are going into fantasy land:

1) Replacement of Black: Why not run a new lift line up to the true summit? Increase vertical, lengthen Magic Carpet, add an upper section to Slide of Hans from the summit, and cut one (or more) trails further west that would have a longer stretch of diamond/double diamond terrain than current trails.

2) Same trail suggestion, but via a lift that starts at Tali/Wizard intersection and goes to summit.

3) The cheap option - same trail suggestion, but use a handle tow running from Wizard (right near the top of black chair) to the summit. 

4) Looking East, a lift from the "natural" bottom if one continued down the fall line of Up Your Sleeve, to the top of the ridgeline. Several intermediate trails could be added to the skiers right, and of course UYS would be lengthened significantly up and down hill.

5) The cheap option - same trail suggestion, but use a handle tow to get people out of the "drainage" up to say the bottom of Vertigo where it intersects with Carpet.

Yes, I am aware that some of said trails might not be on property that Ski Magic Ltd owns. Not to mentioned the cost of all of this. But such constraints don't exist in this fantasy...


----------



## ShadyGrove (Apr 12, 2018)

What's the word about pricing and discounts on Throwback cards for 2018-19?


----------



## slatham (Apr 12, 2018)

SIKSKIER said:


> Instead of trying to keep 2 summit lifts running would it make more sense to have 1 used fixed quad instead?I understand it would cost quite a bit more but in the long run I would imagine not as both those lifts are very old.



Redundancy. 

And you'll take down Red over my dead body......


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## p_levert (Apr 12, 2018)

slatham said:


> Ok since some of us are going into fantasy land:
> 
> 1) Replacement of Black: Why not run a new lift line up to the true summit? Increase vertical, lengthen Magic Carpet, add an upper section to Slide of Hans from the summit, and cut one (or more) trails further west that would have a longer stretch of diamond/double diamond terrain than current trails.
> 
> ...



#4 is not bad, for the long term.

Of all of these new lift suggestions, the one I originally suggested (bottom of trick to the summit) is the cheapest.  And it does provide a backup way to the summit, assuming a green lift exists.


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## raisingarizona (Apr 12, 2018)

Instead of a full top to bottom lift why not have the bottom terminal of the Black chair be where Heart of Magician dumps back out onto Hocus Pocus so you wouldn't have to ski out on the flats every run? It would still access the majority of expert terrain on the upper mountain.


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## skithetrees (Apr 12, 2018)

slatham said:


> Redundancy.
> 
> And you'll take down Red over my dead body......



Agreed. Red is like the mrg single in my mind, can't ever get rid of it. Black could become a fixed grip quad. Budget unlimited, I would run the base terminal out of a lift house to keep the classic feel.


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## skithetrees (Apr 12, 2018)

p_levert said:


> #4 is not bad, for the long term.
> 
> Of all of these new lift suggestions, the one I originally suggested (bottom of trick to the summit) is the cheapest.  And it does provide a backup way to the summit, assuming a green lift exists.



Problem with that is that 90% of people ski magic carpet from the summit. At full utilization, another lift would make it too busy (by magic standards). Getting green line back in is the perfect way to disperse east side traffic. I skied it all the time when I was a little kid. Loved 33 1/3!


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## skithetrees (Apr 12, 2018)

makimono said:


> That would totally destroy my fav run on the whole mountain



One of my favorites is in there too. But there is enough that one lift line wouldn't ruin it. Plus you could cut a few rumble/goat type trails down and still leave room for the goods that are in there already. 

I know it is easy playing Monday morning ski resort manager, or whatever you call it. These are just my thoughts. I have skied this place for 30+ years, including when it was closed and have been dreaming about what I would do all along. Present management is doing an amazing job and am excited to see what is happening (even if I miss the empty trackless woods two weeks after the storm). So don't let my daydreams come across as criticism.


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## p_levert (Apr 12, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> Instead of a full top to bottom lift why not have the bottom terminal of the Black chair be where Heart of Magician dumps back out onto Hocus Pocus so you wouldn't have to ski out on the flats every run? It would still access the majority of expert terrain on the upper mountain.



Bravo!  That's better than my idea of bottom-of-trick-to-summit.  Cheap, because you can use the existing towers.  And still provides a second option to the summit with the green chair combo.  Gets rid of some unneeded flats.  All good.


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## Magicsnowboard (Apr 12, 2018)

Gondi to summit of Magic, then over to Summit of Timber Ridge, then to bottom of TR and back again. JamaicaMan please get going on this project. Please leave the run outs, separates the weak from the strong. 


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## urungus (Apr 12, 2018)

skithetrees said:


> Problem with that is that 90% of people ski magic carpet from the summit. At full utilization, another lift would make it too busy (by magic standards). Getting green line back in is the perfect way to disperse east side traffic. I skied it all the time when I was a little kid. Loved 33 1/3!



I thought it was “33rd and 3rd”, possibly named after intersection in Manhattan, not 33 1/3 (rotation speed of LP)

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...15698550-Pizza_33-New_York_City_New_York.html


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## slatham (Apr 13, 2018)

urungus said:


> I thought it was “33rd and 3rd”, possibly named after intersection in Manhattan, not 33 1/3 (rotation speed of LP)
> 
> https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...15698550-Pizza_33-New_York_City_New_York.html



Funny I never really thought about it but it is in fact 33rd and 3rd.

So Magic long timers, what's the story with the name? Did Hans live at 33rd and 3rd for a bit?


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## makimono (Apr 13, 2018)

On all the old maps it's "33 and 3rd" or "33 & 3rd" or "33 & 1/3rd". First appeared after the green line was cut and at the time it was trail number 34 on the map so I kinda figured it was a play on vinyl record speed while also being a joke on the length of the trail ? No idea really?

https://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/201


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## Do Work (Apr 13, 2018)

slatham said:


> Funny I never really thought about it but it is in fact 33rd and 3rd.
> 
> So Magic long timers, what's the story with the name? Did Hans live at 33rd and 3rd for a bit?





Iirc it’s a Harry Potter thing.  


My dream would be a fixed grip quad going to the summit up blackline and sharing an unloading plateau with Red.  Also completing Green.  With the way the mountain is laid out with a singular funnel point in the base area it is good to stay centralized and redundancy is always important too. It gives a group in the base area every option every run and keeps it easier to run everything.  The cost to run power alone to remote areas can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars by itself too.


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## djspookman (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> My dream would be a fixed grip quad going to the summit up blackline and sharing an unloading plateau with Red.  Also completing Green.  With the way the mountain is laid out with a singular funnel point in the base area it is good to stay centralized and redundancy is always important too.


Make it so if $$ and time allow. If only there were a nearby neighbor that will have part of that dream available soon!


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## Not Sure (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Iirc it’s a Harry Potter thing.
> 
> 
> .



I recall a Three Stooges episode female character in heavy NY accent while chewing gum use that line ”Thoity  , thoid and thoid”. Not sure how that relates to Magic but I’ve heard the phrase. 
Searched you tube but couldn’t find it.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 13, 2018)

what the hell is 33 1/3 at magic?

nevermind - never noticed that trail


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Iirc *it’s a Harry Potter thing.  *



Cant be. 

The Harry Potter series debuted only in the late 90s (98'ish IIRC).


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## makimono (Apr 13, 2018)

I still think it's a play on vinyl record rpm, there were some goofy names at the time that got away from the Magic theme (like part of Red Line being called Red 944).

Although, the numbers 33, 1/3, and 33 1/3 all have major significance in black magik, numerology, Christianity, freemasonry etc.


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## slatham (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> My dream would be a fixed grip quad going to the summit up blackline and sharing an unloading plateau with Red.  Also completing Green.  With the way the mountain is laid out with a singular funnel point in the base area it is good to stay centralized and redundancy is always important too. It gives a group in the base area every option every run and keeps it easier to run everything.  The cost to run power alone to remote areas can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars by itself too.



With you on that! I believe someday that will be a reality.


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## skithetrees (Apr 13, 2018)

urungus said:


> I thought it was “33rd and 3rd”, possibly named after intersection in Manhattan, not 33 1/3 (rotation speed of LP)
> 
> https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...15698550-Pizza_33-New_York_City_New_York.html



I always remembered calling it 33 and 1/3 growing up, but looked at the trail map and was going to concede. Glad someone else remembered. Also remember when black line used to be "Maui" and lucifer "double diamond head". I get the reason for renaming and staying consistent to the themes, but I thought those were two of the coolest trial names out there. Black has rolling drops that get larger at the bottom like waves coming in at Maui. And lucifer leads to double diamonds and the play on "diamond head" of Hawaii fit well with Maui.


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## skithetrees (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Iirc it’s a Harry Potter thing.
> 
> 
> My dream would be a fixed grip quad going to the summit up blackline and sharing an unloading plateau with Red.  Also completing Green.  With the way the mountain is laid out with a singular funnel point in the base area it is good to stay centralized and redundancy is always important too. It gives a group in the base area every option every run and keeps it easier to run everything.  The cost to run power alone to remote areas can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars by itself too.



Interesting point re power. I think that lift arrangement makes the most sense in terms of practical reality and what is really needed.


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## Do Work (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Iirc it’s a Harry Potter thing.




Apparently it isn’t a Harry Potter thing.  I will let you guys know if I get to the bottom of it though!  


Fun fact: “Potter” on the map has no relation to Harry Potter either.  It’s dedicated to the memory of Craig Potter, a local ripper.


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## Do Work (Apr 13, 2018)

skithetrees said:


> I always remembered calling it 33 and 1/3 growing up, but looked at the trail map and was going to concede. Glad someone else remembered. Also remember when black line used to be "Maui" and lucifer "double diamond head". I get the reason for renaming and staying consistent to the themes, but I thought those were two of the coolest trial names out there. Black has rolling drops that get larger at the bottom like waves coming in at Maui. And lucifer leads to double diamonds and the play on "diamond head" of Hawaii fit well with Maui.




I believe the “diamond head” era was the last 80s early 90s when Jim Schultz was Manager.  Lol at calling it Maui though,that’s hilarious.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Apparently it isn’t a Harry Potter thing.  I will let you guys know if I get to the bottom of it though!
> 
> *
> Fun fact: “Potter” on the map has no relation to Harry Potter either.  It’s dedicated to the memory of Craig Potter, a local ripper.*



I hate to be, "that guy", who proves you wrong multiple times in the same thread, but when Potter was added to Magic's trail map, it was literally first called "Harry Potter" (2007 trail map below).


https://skimap.org/data/201/7/1209849742.pdf


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 13, 2018)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Gondi to summit of Magic, then over to Summit of Timber Ridge, then to bottom of TR and back again. JamaicaMan please get going on this project. Please leave the run outs, separates the weak from the strong.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



We have a tram planned from Jake’s in Londonderry to the cell towers and down to TR...maybe through middle earth to China as well. Hear they are growing skiers there and they will pay for all this...


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 13, 2018)

skithetrees said:


> Interesting point re power. I think that lift arrangement makes the most sense in terms of practical reality and what is really needed.



Good lord. Let’s not bring realities of costs and return-on-investment into fantasy land here.

But yeah, we love our centralized lift system and base area! All these decentralized pod lifts would destroy the ease and simplicity of Magic. I’ve seen those satellite lift plans from so many “resort” consultants that just don’t get who we are and just have the same old cookie-cutter ski industry ideas.

Just wait. It’s going to be really good. But it will be the Magic way




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## Do Work (Apr 14, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I hate to be, "that guy", who proves you wrong multiple times in the same thread, but when Potter was added to Magic's trail map, it was literally first called "Harry Potter" (2007 trail map below).
> 
> 
> https://skimap.org/data/201/7/1209849742.pdf




*sigh* Don’t worry you aren’t.  I honestly don’t care what the internet says or who typed what on the trail map in 07.  

Except you won’t find a single employee from that era who will say that trail wasn’t cut and dedicated specifically to Craig- whose ashes were also spread on the mountain.  Several people who were close with him who cut and named that trail are still here if you’d like to ask them specifically about it.    

I appreciate your sleuthiness though in any case.


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## NYDB (Apr 14, 2018)

Any truth to the rumor that you guys will be looking to build a few mountain bike trails in and around the mountain in the coming years?  


Looking for volunteers to help build maintain?

Going to setup or join a VMBA chapter?


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## The Sneak (Apr 14, 2018)

Replace black with a T bar right up Blackline, only the strong survive!


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## makimono (Apr 14, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> Replace black with a T bar right up Blackline, only the strong survive!



Yes! 

I miss the days of expert surface lifts


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## Do Work (Apr 16, 2018)

makimono said:


> Yes!
> 
> I miss the days of expert surface lifts





Dude, GO TO HICKORY.  The ride up is almost as eventful as the ride down, it's awesome.


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## Harvey (Apr 16, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Just wait. It’s going to be really good. But it will be the Magic way


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## twinplanx (Apr 16, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Dude, GO TO HICKORY.  The ride up is almost as eventful as the ride down, it's awesome.


Hickory didn't open this year, as far as I know. Maybe those Pomas are available? Though I'd hate to lose such a unique ski hill...

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## Harvey (Apr 16, 2018)

I hate to tell you twin, believe me I hate to...


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## twinplanx (Apr 17, 2018)

Harvey said:


> I hate to tell you twin, believe me I hate to...


Are you saying its done, Harvey?  It's a place I passed by on my way to Gore plenty of times before I actually took the turn one day after hearing tales from people like yourself. It was a wet spring like day and there was really only one good way down but it was a blast! I could of counted the people there on my hands, felt like I knew there names by the end of the day. Weirdest thing I remember was my credit card receipt had a Texas address... I would love to have had a chance to check out there glades. Man did they seem intriguing! Idk maybe because you had to ski up it really didn't seem small either. What a shame! Is there any hope of revitalizing? Too bad Lake George is such a ghost town in the winter...

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## twinplanx (Apr 17, 2018)

Harvey said:


> I hate to tell you twin, believe me I hate to...


Are you saying its done, Harvey?  It's a place I passed by on my way to Gore plenty of times before I actually took the turn one day after hearing tales from people like yourself. It was a wet spring like day and there was really only one good way down but it was a blast! I could of counted the other people there on my hands including staff. It felt like I knew there names by the end of the day. Weirdest thing I remember was my credit card receipt had a Texas address... I would love to have had a chance to check out there glades. Man did they seem intriguing! Idk maybe because you had to ski up it really didn't seem small either. What a shame! Is there any hope of revitalizing? Too bad Lake George is such a ghost town in the winter...

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## JamaicaMan (Apr 23, 2018)

The new RV has crappy gas mileage but gets you great views...


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## sull1102 (Apr 23, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> View attachment 23834
> 
> The new RV has crappy gas mileage but gets you great views...
> 
> ...


Is that gorgeous structure headed for the summit?

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## JamaicaMan (Apr 23, 2018)

Sunshine Corner right there...Patrol shack for early season Green Chair-only access (yes, completing that beauty this summer) and then later season SC “shenanigans shack”


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## Harvey (Apr 23, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Sunshine Corner right there...Patrol shack for early season Green Chair-only access (yes, completing that beauty this summer) and then later season SC “shenanigans shack”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



:beer:

Nice!


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## Harvey (Apr 23, 2018)

twinplanx said:


> Are you saying its done, Harvey?  It's a place I passed by on my way to Gore plenty of times before I actually took the turn one day after hearing tales from people like yourself. It was a wet spring like day and there was really only one good way down but it was a blast! I could of counted the other people there on my hands including staff. It felt like I knew there names by the end of the day. Weirdest thing I remember was my credit card receipt had a Texas address... I would love to have had a chance to check out there glades. Man did they seem intriguing! Idk maybe because you had to ski up it really didn't seem small either. What a shame! Is there any hope of revitalizing? Too bad Lake George is such a ghost town in the winter...
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



Hickory has a scale issue.  The infrastructure can't transport enough skier visits for the ski area to make sense financially.

I'm extremely glad I got there the few times I did.


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## Magicsnowboard (Apr 23, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> View attachment 23834
> 
> The new RV has crappy gas mileage but gets you great views...
> 
> ...



Silly me thinking you guys would take a few days off at the end of the season. I hope all that snow isn’t getting in the way. 


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## IceEidolon (Apr 24, 2018)

Do Work said:


> While that is true and there are many parasitic variables we do have much higher sustained GPM now that we changed out our base area piping to all 8" with minimized angles.  Our new air center will be huge in being able to open early, our increased gallonage will be huge in keeping that pace up and trail count blossoming now that we have tracked down all the major air leaks.  Know anybody looking to get rid of any baby ratnik sleds btw?  (Baby X2s)


750 gets you 15 GPM Stage 1 for 50 guns ideal. You're absolutely right that to run fans or Rats you'd need to reserve water or air, and once you see 18 F you'll have to drop guns to keep pressure as Deck 2 comes on. 
I'm used to opening terrain with 25+ WB, and I didn't consider colder temperatures. Still, a few more 10' Impulse sleds or fixed towers on Plan A Green Lift terrain wouldn't hurt.

I'm curious why y'all are going for older Baby SG2+2 over SR15, Omicron doubles, and the other used big air options - I like Ratniks myself, I just figured new generation Baby SG2+2 or Baby Triples would be more efficient if you were staying (almost) all Ratnik.

Edit: I meant to cite the comment Do Work responded to.


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## p_levert (Apr 24, 2018)

Jamaicaman makes a few turns:

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/988814749654814720


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 25, 2018)

Good news in an Alpine Update. Green Chair work starts next week and finishes late June! Also an announcement re Black Chair soon.


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## slatham (Apr 25, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> Good news in an Alpine Update. Green Chair work starts next week and finishes late June! Also an announcement re Black Chair soon.



Don't forget the pond work! That's a game changer. They were shut down several times this past winter due to lack of water in the pond and the typically strong mountain drainage "recharge" freezing up. If I recall the pond work will double (or more) the available water. That'll be huge.

The other thing that will be key is they should have the snowmaking system ready to go from day 1 (whatever day ma nature says) vs. last year where they were still doing pipe work, didn't have the new electric compressors, etc. Combine this with the Green chair and all of a sudden Magic is an early season option.


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## Magicsnowboard (Apr 25, 2018)

slatham said:


> Don't forget the pond work! That's a game changer. They were shut down several times this past winter due to lack of water in the pond and the typically strong mountain drainage "recharge" freezing up. If I recall the pond work will double (or more) the available water. That'll be huge.
> 
> The other thing that will be key is they should have the snowmaking system ready to go from day 1 (whatever day ma nature says) vs. last year where they were still doing pipe work, didn't have the new electric compressors, etc. Combine this with the Green chair and all of a sudden Magic is an early season option.



So awesome. 


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## p_levert (Apr 25, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> Good news in an Alpine Update. Green Chair work starts next week and finishes late June! Also an announcement re Black Chair soon.



The good news is that the Green chair will be complete by July 1.  I'm not sure what JM is saying about the black:

"We've also put a lot of money into repairing the Black Summit Lift over the last two seasons with a bit of a mixed operating performance record. We will have important information on our plans for this lift shortly, so stay tuned. But our goal is to improve summit access reliabilty and capacity to keep our lines to a minimum while keeping our slopes open and uncrowded."

I dunno, JM might just say that they have given up on repairing and there will be a new lift for 2019/2020.  Something like that could happen.


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## tumbler (Apr 25, 2018)

p_levert said:


> The good news is that the Green chair will be complete by July 1.  I'm not sure what JM is saying about the black:
> 
> "We've also put a lot of money into repairing the Black Summit Lift over the last two seasons with a bit of a mixed operating performance record. We will have important information on our plans for this lift shortly, so stay tuned. But our goal is to improve summit access reliabilty and capacity to keep our lines to a minimum while keeping our slopes open and uncrowded."
> 
> I dunno, JM might just say that they have given up on repairing and there will be a new lift for 2019/2020.  Something like that could happen.



With all the lift work at Kildo maybe they can pick up a cheap used one.  Too bad it wasnt a few years earlier, the old Valley House double from SB would have been perfect.


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## sull1102 (Apr 25, 2018)

Cough... Snow bowl... Cough, cough... Stratton... Cough cough (know nothing, have no insider info etc and don't want to start this whole thing up again)

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## djspookman (Apr 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> cough... Snow bowl... Cough, cough... Stratton... Cough cough (no nothing, have no insider info etc and don't want to start this whole thing up again)
> 
> sent from my z983 using alpinezone mobile app



ditto.


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## slatham (Apr 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Cough... Snow bowl... Cough, cough... Stratton... Cough cough (know nothing, have no insider info etc and don't want to start this whole thing up again)
> 
> Sent from my Z983 using AlpineZone mobile app



Can you cough cough up a million bucks?


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 26, 2018)

slatham said:


> Can you cough cough up a million bucks?



Magic is in a great position to buy this very appropriate lift so stay tuned.

Hey, I'm all positioned to buy my season pass, are you?


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## slatham (Apr 27, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> Magic is in a great position to buy this very appropriate lift so stay tuned.
> 
> Hey, I'm all positioned to buy my season pass, are you?



Ha, well positioned to buy a pass, that's a good one. I BOUGHT MY PASS weeks ago. And you're waiting for????

Given the announced plans for this summer, I am not sure Magic is well positioned either financially or band-width wise to acquire and install a new (used) Black Lift. But that's just my opinion. I hope you have good and accurate inside info and are right.


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 27, 2018)

I really meant well positioned geographically to fly in the towers and the Stratton lift seems a good size for the job. I have no idea about the finances. A hint from Jamaicaman was a mention of 2000 skiers max per day. That is a new high water mark. Geoff also said there would be an announcement on the subject.

As to my pass- need that tax refund to hit!


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## slatham (May 2, 2018)

Twitter video of sheath housings being painted for Green chair.


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## bheemsoth (May 9, 2018)

Looks like the lift purchase is official - https://twitter.com/SkiMagicVT/status/994231964059172865


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## Kleetus (May 9, 2018)

bheemsoth said:


> Looks like the lift purchase is official - https://twitter.com/SkiMagicVT/status/994231964059172865


Huge news for Magic. Means more skiers on the hill, but will really help out with some of the long liftlines that have occured over weekends past. Being able to sell a few more day tickets won't hurt either.

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## slatham (May 9, 2018)

bheemsoth said:


> Looks like the lift purchase is official - https://twitter.com/SkiMagicVT/status/994231964059172865



THIS IS HUGE!! Way to go JM! I guess Do Work has plenty of work to do this summer.

Stratton’s Snow Bowl Poma Quad Lift Heading to Magic Mountain
Another Major Upgrade by SKI MAGIC LLC Will Replace Magic’s Current Black Chair Summit Lift

Londonderry, VT, May 9, 2018 – Magic Mountain is purchasing and installing Stratton’s current “Snow Bowl” Poma fixed-grip quad chairlift as a new base-to-summit lift for the 2018/19 season. The Poma quad lift will replace Magic’s current “Black Chair” which had been operating as a double passenger capacity lift. The new lift at Magic will follow a similar lift line up the Black Line trail to the summit with a slightly higher terminal station in order to access all trails at Magic.

 Magic’s new Poma quad lift, originally built in 1986 and installed at Stratton’s Snow Bowl area, comes with 148 chairs, a 2,000 skier per hour capacity, and has an excellent performance and maintenance record at Stratton. It will service approximately 1,500 vertical feet with the lift line stretching about 5,000 feet long. The lift will add significant uphill capacity in combination with Magic’s current “Red Chair” double summit lift and another new installation to be completed this spring of a base-to-mid mountain Borvig double passenger lift (“Green Chair”). The current Black Chair, which the Poma Quad will replace, only had 113 chairs, was approved as a two-person carrier, and therefore had a maximum capacity of just 620 riders per hour. The Poma Quad therefore effectively triples Magic’s uphill capacity over the current lift.

“When we heard Stratton was replacing their Snow Bowl lift with a new high-speed detachable, four-passenger lift, our investor group jumped on the opportunity to try and purchase their Poma fixed-grip quad”, said Geoff Hatheway, President of SKI MAGIC LLC. “For our ski community, this lift is a huge upgrade that meets and manages our current and future growth expectations, better fulfills customer desires for quality, reliable lift service at Magic, and sustains our reputation as an area with both minimal lift lines and low on-slope skier density.”

Stratton is taking down the Snow Bowl lift this month and then Magic will have the lift transported across the valley (about 15 miles) to its Londonderry location.

“It’s great to see this dependable lift live on in southern Vermont, and I want to acknowledge Bill Nupp, President and COO of Stratton, and all our neighbors there for making this purchase happen”, continued Geoff Hatheway. “We occupy a very different place in the industry than Stratton, but Bill and his team really wanted to make this possible for us. It’s a true example of the big guy on the block helping the little guy out and supporting the diversity of experiences uniquely available here in southern Vermont—all within just a few miles of each other.”

Magic plans for its lift contractors to begin work this summer and fall on the new summit Black Line Poma Quad, after the installation is complete on the mid-mountain Green Lift. Magic will operate the new quad as the primary summit lift every weekend and holiday period, with the famed Red Chair continuing as an additional lift on busy weekends plus pulling main duty on lighter traffic weekdays.

 In total, this will be a major $1 million capital investment in the new lift by SKI MAGIC LLC which will help attract more skiers and riders to the southern Vermont and Windham County region who are interested in a classic, old-school mountain vibe.


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## JoeB-Z (May 9, 2018)

This will be a big task to get done for this coming coming winter on top of the Green lift install but have at it men! Bought my season pass yesterday. People worry about crowding on the slopes but I don't see it as a problem with enough open terrain.


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## djspookman (May 9, 2018)

WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN dinner!


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## GregoryIsaacs (May 9, 2018)

This is amazing news! Now we need to do our part to spread the word, bring family and friends etc... 

Just thinking about how much of a game changer this is makes me giddy with excitement. This lift is a workhorse


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## prsboogie (May 9, 2018)

F'kNA guys!! Great news

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## JamaicaMan (May 9, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> This is amazing news! Now we need to do our part to spread the word, bring family and friends etc...
> 
> Just thinking about how much of a game changer this is makes me giddy with excitement. This lift is a workhorse



Word.


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## Smellytele (May 9, 2018)

Yeehaw. Game changer for sure.


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## p_levert (May 9, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Word.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



With all this new capacity coming on line, will this mean higher lift ticket ceiling?  And the parking lot?

Totally great effin news, BTW.


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## Newpylong (May 9, 2018)

Amazing.


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## BenedictGomez (May 9, 2018)

This part is nice too.



> with *a slightly higher terminal station in order to access all trails *at Magic.



In addition to the increased uphill capacity, that inefficiency will be resolved.


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## GregoryIsaacs (May 9, 2018)

Just looking over google earth to see how this will all look. There's an observatory at the true summit? never noticed that before.......


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## SkiingInABlueDream (May 9, 2018)

Awesome news! If an expedient singles line results from this I can see myself skiing Magic a lot more.


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## slatham (May 9, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> This part is nice too.
> 
> 
> 
> In addition to the increased uphill capacity, that inefficiency will be resolved.



Yes, that will be a nice change especially since it will be the go-to work horse lift. 

Wonder if they will drop the bottom terminal a bit further downhill to make it easier to access Black from the East Side trails? Otherwise you will have beginners struggling across the flat travers to get to Black.

Although I guess if they plan to run Green on a regular basis that may not be such an issue.

Are we really talking about two new lifts? Three in two years? At Magic? Cue Rod Serling - "You have now entered the twilight zone......"


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## sull1102 (May 9, 2018)

Called that one, you just had to look at the numbers and realize that it was way too good of an opportunity to let go.I will argue this is by far the single greatest improvement to Magic in the history of the mountain and I have to give a huge congrats to the team making it all happen so fast. People might not be ready for how much good this does for the mountain, possibly even year round someday! Welcome to the big leagues, cannot wait to ride the new lift(s).


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## drjeff (May 9, 2018)

So looking forward to riding these 2 once up and running during the typically 2 to 3 days a season my kids race at Magic! Such great news, for such a great crew and mountain!!

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## cdskier (May 9, 2018)

While certainly not a cheap decision, it appears this should serve Magic very well for the long term. Congrats! Some people suggested this lift would be a great fit and it looks like they were right!


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## tumbler (May 10, 2018)

From the press release- kudos to Stratton for cutting them a deal.


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## gregnye (May 10, 2018)

While I fully support Magic buying this lift, I am going to miss the Red lift being the main lift on weekdays. The red lift makes me think I'm at Smugglers notch/ in the 1970's


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## Smellytele (May 10, 2018)

cdskier said:


> While certainly not a cheap decision, it appears this should serve Magic very well for the long term. Congrats! Some people suggested this lift would be a great fit and it looks like they were right!



To keep dumping money year after year into the Black and only able to put 2 skiers on every other chair did not make financial sense. This will pay for itself after a few years and the dumping money into the black would never. It was a money pit.


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## cdskier (May 10, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> To keep dumping money year after year into the Black and only able to put 2 skiers on every other chair did not make financial sense. This will pay for itself after a few years and the dumping money into the black would never. It was a money pit.



Fully agree!


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## slatham (May 10, 2018)

gregnye said:


> While I fully support Magic buying this lift, I am going to miss the Red lift being the main lift on weekdays. The red lift makes me think I'm at Smugglers notch/ in the 1970's



Red will run more than you think base on the press release:

"Magic will operate the new quad as the primary summit lift every weekend and holiday period, with the famed Red Chair continuing as an additional lift on busy weekends plus pulling main duty on lighter traffic weekdays."


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## tumbler (May 10, 2018)

slatham said:


> Red will run more than you think base on the press release:
> 
> "Magic will operate the new quad as the primary summit lift every weekend and holiday period, with the famed Red Chair continuing as an additional lift on busy weekends plus pulling main duty on lighter traffic weekdays."



Yeah, I don't know if that will be true once the shiny new toy is installed.


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## gregnye (May 10, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Yeah, I don't know if that will be true once the shiny new toy is installed.



Yeah, people usually want to have their whole family on one chair (4 people). I much prefer the quiet vibe of a smaller chair, where you get paired up with one interesting local and get to talk to them.


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## BenedictGomez (May 10, 2018)

Oh wait, so they're not going to run the red chair and the new black chair on weekends unless it's really crowded?  

That's lame.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (May 10, 2018)

I hope the new quad chair will be similarly close to the ground as the current black chair. As for Red running less frequently, I'm ok either way. Red is a very aesthetic ride. But having it not run means less ppl on the slopes. And if the quad has a quick singles line I'd never wait for red anyway. And while I think I generally make a decent run of redline I prefer not having an audience overhead. Bla bla bla... [emoji846]


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## tumbler (May 10, 2018)

Are they going to paint the new chair black?  Or will it just be the "Black" chair?


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## bdfreetuna (May 10, 2018)

Dont give AF however they do it. On "crowded" Magic days it's a 10 minute wait max. By max I mean probably 5 minutes max.

My main "improvements" encouragement for Magic would be snowmaking, since not every year will be good to them in SoVT at lower elevation, but if they can open early with a steadily expanding selection of snowmaking trails, I would consider them an option to places like Mount Snow or Killington in December/maybe January.

Don't think I've ever been to Magic before February (and most often it's March). I would though. Maybe my advice is bad though, tbh I will go wherever the trees are available in the best shape. That equation already favors Magic when it snows mid-week.

Mount Snow I don't even really like the terrain but they've temporarily won me over early season. If Magic could get a good variety of trails open, obviously much less acres (but who cares about acres, we ski in straight lines)...

Just trying to help Magic's strategy/marketing/operations with an opinion that may also represent others. I am not a loyal customer by any means, but Magic's terrain, short distance, and low-key vibes are already a draw.


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## slatham (May 10, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Are they going to paint the new chair black?  Or will it just be the "Black" chair?



Anyone know what color the chairs are now, or if they are even painted? From the pics it looks like not painted - just galvanized. The padding is black though!

I would expect them to paint them black but if they don't need to be painted and there's a time crunch who knows. They painted the chairs on the "Green" lift green last summer, but given that lifts age and time in storage I am sure they needed to be painted.


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## slatham (May 10, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Dont give AF however they do it. On "crowded" Magic days it's a 10 minute wait max. By max I mean probably 5 minutes max.
> 
> My main "improvements" encouragement for Magic would be snowmaking, since not every year will be good to them in SoVT at lower elevation, but if they can open early with a steadily expanding selection of snowmaking trails, I would consider them an option to places like Mount Snow or Killington in December/maybe January.
> 
> ...



Some color on snowmaking...

Last season they got a late start and missed a good early season window as they were still in the midst of doing work on new main line feeder piping for water. From what Do Work has said, this greatly improved pressure, especially up high.

They also had a set back when the delivery was delayed for the new, energy efficient electric compressors. Hence they had to scramble to rent diesel compressors.

Then over Christmas the mountain froze, stopping the drainage into the pond, and they had to shut down.

This year the piping is done. The compressors are in (and were eventually running last winter). And they have plans to rebuild the dam so the pond is full, which is more than a double in water available.

So I would expect them to be not only willing, but able, to put down a lot more snow and be a legit early season option. All we need is mother nature to lend a hand.....

Also keep in mind that with the Green chair they can open much quicker given the shorter linear feet of snow needed.


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## tumbler (May 10, 2018)

slatham said:


> Anyone know what color the chairs are now, or if they are even painted? From the pics it looks like not painted - just galvanized. The padding is black though!
> 
> I would expect them to paint them black but if they don't need to be painted and there's a time crunch who knows. They painted the chairs on the "Green" lift green last summer, but given that lifts age and time in storage I am sure they needed to be painted.



Leave the chairs galvanized, It's hard for them to hold paint and look crappy when chipping off everywhere.  If something needs to be black, paint the new towers and leave it at that.


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## Domeskier (May 10, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Leave the chairs galvanized.



I think they should paint them red just to confuse everyone.


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## bdfreetuna (May 10, 2018)

slatham said:


> So I would expect them to be not only willing, but able, to put down a lot more snow and be a legit early season option. All we need is mother nature to lend a hand.....
> 
> Also keep in mind that with the Green chair they can open much quicker given the shorter linear feet of snow needed.



Hope it pans out that way next year. I will be there. Think I went there twice this year. With more early season skiing and general snowmaking I might be inclined towards making that 3 or 4 days a season. The trees and steeps are the big draw so the earlier they can get at least a few of those open, the better.

Of course God decides how the weather will be so best intentions can always be foiled.


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## thetrailboss (May 10, 2018)

I agree that this is probably the BEST improvement at Magic in a very long time.  The work on snowmaking has been a plus, but having a reliable lift to get skiers to the terrain is key.


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## MG Skier (May 10, 2018)

Wow, Rumors DO come true! This is great news indeed. I guess that makes up my mind on a Blackout Pass! Congrats Magic for hitting it out of the park on your pressing of the Reset Button. Couldn't be more excited for you guys right now this is huge progress!


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## skithetrees (May 10, 2018)

Any word on what the lift line will be including top and bottom stations?  I assume all new footings will need to be poured. This is a huge upgrade and I know not initially in this years plan. Props to the team for stepping up when the opportunity came their way. It's going to be a heck of a summer season. Best of luck!


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## ss20 (May 10, 2018)

This makes it much more enticing for me to visit midweek with a back-up lift in case Red goes down.  Weekends?  I feel like a quad is too much capacity, especially if not everything is open.  I also don't see how they'll be able to park the masses.  Whatever the case I wish them luck as it really doesn't effect me weekends.  See you Thursday though!! :beer:


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## gmcunni (May 11, 2018)

Will it be painted black?


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## skixc2 (May 11, 2018)

ss20 said:


> This makes it much more enticing for me to visit midweek with a back-up lift in case Red goes down.  Weekends?  I feel like a quad is too much capacity, especially if not everything is open.  I also don't see how they'll be able to park the masses.  Whatever the case I wish them luck as it really doesn't effect me weekends.  See you Thursday though!! :beer:



It's not great, but there's a big parking lot, "Lot C" down by the bottom of the access Rd. Trail crowding is more concerning than parking issues, but they seem to be on top of that with limiting ticket sales.  (Show up early to avoid both issues.)


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## MG Skier (May 11, 2018)

skixc2 said:


> It's not great, but there's a big parking lot, "Lot C" down by the bottom of the access Rd. Trail crowding is more concerning than parking issues, but they seem to be on top of that with limiting ticket sales.  (Show up early to avoid both issues.)




Show up early, don't we all already do that....

If you were there on race day, or a weekend when Black lift struggled, this will knock out those lines, with Green lift too. I'm not sure there will be any lines......They are focused on the experience.....limited tickets is key.


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## Glenn (May 11, 2018)

That's really good news! And cool that the lift is staying in SoVt.


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## p_levert (May 11, 2018)

MG Skier said:


> Show up early, don't we all already do that....
> 
> If you were there on race day, or a weekend when Black lift struggled, this will knock out those lines, with Green lift too. I'm not sure there will be any lines......They are focused on the experience.....limited tickets is key.



With the green and enhanced black lifts, the lift capacity will be about double.  I have to assume that the lift ticket limit will increase.  If I was JM, I would do this.  The mountain can handle this, although the east side might start to feel a little crowded.  West side will continue to be empty.


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## The Sneak (May 11, 2018)

It will be fine. Even on a powder day with 20 min wait for Red Chair, you almost never saw anyone on the trails. Crowding would be a nice problem. 

Then again my home hill is Wachusett so my tolerance is perhaps greater...


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## thetrailboss (May 11, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> Will it be painted black?





(Sorry)


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## slatham (May 11, 2018)

p_levert said:


> With the green and enhanced black lifts, the lift capacity will be about double.  I have to assume that the lift ticket limit will increase.  If I was JM, I would do this.  The mountain can handle this, although the east side might start to feel a little crowded.  West side will continue to be empty.



JM said limit will increase by only 500, to 2,000 day tickets. With Green and Black, liftlines will not be an issue. With increased snowmaking trail crowding won't either. Plus the big crowds only come when natural terrain is open, and there is plenty of that to handle the new lift capacity, especially if glades are added, which JM also alluded to.


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## drjeff (May 11, 2018)

slatham said:


> JM said limit will increase by only 500, to 2,000 day tickets. With Green and Black, liftlines will not be an issue. With increased snowmaking trail crowding won't either. Plus the big crowds only come when natural terrain is open, and there is plenty of that to handle the new lift capacity, especially if glades are added, which JM also alluded to.


The bigger "issue" may now be the potential increased crowding in the Black Line Tavern on a busy day vs the on hill crowding!! [emoji6] [emoji6] 

On the "big" days the last few seasons, Magic has had if not 100% of their terrain open, pretty close to it. That's plenty of acres to spread 500 more people on the hill out over....

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## slatham (May 11, 2018)

drjeff said:


> The bigger "issue" may now be the potential increased crowding in the Black Line Tavern on a busy day vs the on hill crowding!! [emoji6] [emoji6]
> 
> On the "big" days the last few seasons, Magic has had if not 100% of their terrain open, pretty close to it. That's plenty of acres to spread 500 more people on the hill out over....
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



Ha, I think you are spot on! Craig better expand the bar. Crowded slope, no biggie. Long wait for a fiddlehead, mutiny!


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## p_levert (May 12, 2018)

slatham said:


> JM said limit will increase by only 500, to 2,000 day tickets. With Green and Black, liftlines will not be an issue. With increased snowmaking trail crowding won't either. Plus the big crowds only come when natural terrain is open, and there is plenty of that to handle the new lift capacity, especially if glades are added, which JM also alluded to.



Sure, if that's all it is.  But if I was JM, I would go higher than a 2,000 day ticket limit.  They need cash flow to keep the mountain strong and have some reserves for the low-snow years.  This is not a cooperative or charity operation, they need to make some money.


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## JamaicaMan (May 12, 2018)

SKI MAGIC is certainly here to make a profit while maintaining our operating capital reserves for those literally “rainy day” seasons. But for Magic to have a successful business model as a smaller player in this highly competitive and “no growth” industry, we are committed to a different experience from that the ski industry has been inexorably moving toward for decades. Since we are not a mega resort, why be like them and drive excessive volume/profits on already busy profitable days at the expense of an experience our customers will enjoy and then hopefully return again to see us on other days we are less busy?

Balance. We know the numbers where we can be profitable. We also know the customer experience we want. Magic will leave some short-term money on the table to have an experience that we believe will create long-term loyalty from customers for a unique community experience. 

Guess we’ll see if it works! #bedifferent #thinkdifferent


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## p_levert (May 12, 2018)

Thanks for the response JamaicaMan.

It's all about finding the proper balance.  Showing up at Magic Mtn on a beautiful day and really stoked to ski, it's a major bummer to be turned away.  And being turned away doesn't really build brand loyalty, it just makes you avoid Magic on Saturday.  So maybe the correct balance point is 2500 day passes or even 3000.  Just saying.

OTOH, I do think it's very clever that season passholders are not subject to the daily limit, so a nice way to goose season pass sales.


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## sull1102 (May 12, 2018)

I know it happened a couple times, but does anyone know how many days the limit was reached and folks turned away? I imagine the number is very small and an additional 500 tickets would be 300 more than needed. That being said I think the crowds will turn out in droves with a real quad up and running reliably. In my eyes this is as big a deal as if they were going detachable because people were already coming around on Magic and now that momentum is being cranked up in almost unimaginable ways. Just look around, everyone who even suggested this move was shouted down as crazy and now it is really happening, that is very rare for any mountain these days.


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## JamaicaMan (May 12, 2018)

p_levert said:


> Thanks for the response JamaicaMan.
> 
> It's all about finding the proper balance.  Showing up at Magic Mtn on a beautiful day and really stoked to ski, it's a major bummer to be turned away.  And being turned away doesn't really build brand loyalty, it just makes you avoid Magic on Saturday.  So maybe the correct balance point is 2500 day passes or even 3000.  Just saying.
> 
> ...


----------



## Harvey (May 12, 2018)

jamaicaman said:


> ski magic is certainly here to make a profit while maintaining our operating capital reserves for those literally “rainy day” seasons. But for magic to have a successful business model as a smaller player in this highly competitive and “no growth” industry, we are committed to a different experience from that the ski industry has been inexorably moving toward for decades. Since we are not a mega resort, why be like them and drive excessive volume/profits on already busy profitable days at the expense of an experience our customers will enjoy and then hopefully return again to see us on other days we are less busy?
> 
> Balance. We know the numbers where we can be profitable. We also know the customer experience we want. Magic will leave some short-term money on the table to have an experience that we believe will create long-term loyalty from customers for a unique community experience.
> 
> ...



ftw.


----------



## sull1102 (May 12, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> p_levert said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the response JamaicaMan.
> ...


----------



## JoeB-Z (May 15, 2018)

Last day reminder for pass discount.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (May 16, 2018)

well that is simpler than I thought it would be


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## JamaicaMan (May 16, 2018)

Be a lot cheaper if we just had to draw a line too


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## slatham (May 16, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Be a lot cheaper if we just had to draw a line too
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



But think of all the fun you'll have pouring concrete on Black Magic, flying in towers, pulling cable! I mean you don't want to just play golf all summer do you JM?


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## tumbler (May 16, 2018)

slatham said:


> But think of all the fun you'll have pouring concrete on Black Magic, flying in towers, pulling cable! I mean you don't want to just play golf all summer do you JM?



Make the helicopter days an event, people will come watch, eat and drink...


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## JamaicaMan (May 16, 2018)

[emoji106][emoji481]


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## AbominableSnowman (May 16, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Make the helicopter days an event, people will come watch, eat and drink...



I would attend that, given advance notice.


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## sull1102 (May 16, 2018)

Looking good guys! Also sets up the main lift up nicely to serve well in a very, very rosey distant future someday maybe, ya never know it could happen...


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## MommaBear (May 16, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Make the helicopter days an event, people will come watch, eat and drink...



As one who made the drive from CT to watch the helicopters at Mount Snow, I agree!


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## JohnBelly (May 17, 2018)

Tin said:


> Loving it!
> 
> http://chestertelegraph.org/2016/08/23/lucky-13-ski-mountain-investors-say-they-believe-in-magic/



Its just awesome man


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## NYDB (May 29, 2018)

Based on the 5/22 communication from Magic it looks like they 'hope' to get the  new Black line chair running for winter 18/19.   Doesn't sound good to me.  I 'hope' I am wrong about that.


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## prsboogie (May 29, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> Based on the 5/22 communication from Magic it looks like they 'hope' to get the  new Black line chair running for winter 18/19.   Doesn't sound good to me.  I 'hope' I am wrong about that.


Sounds like they don't want to promise something they are not 100% sure the can deliver on. I have no problem with that

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## JoeB-Z (May 29, 2018)

I suspect Act 250 permits take time and can run into snags. Once the Green lift is in it will help a lot.


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## thetrailboss (May 29, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> I suspect Act 250 permits take time and can run into snags. Once the Green lift is in it will help a lot.



Well, if they are replacing the Black, then they may be able to do it without a permit.  Unless the rules have changed.  They are replacing an existing lift.


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## jaytrem (May 29, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, if they are replacing the Black, then they may be able to do it without a permit.  Unless the rules have changed.  They are replacing an existing lift.



Lengthening it at the top might require more permits than a direct replacement.  Probably worth the extra hassle though.


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## thetrailboss (May 29, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> Lengthening it at the top might require more permits than a direct replacement.  Probably worth the extra hassle though.



Right.  I think that the impacted area is very minor.  The permit review will be done by the local review board and state district.  I imagine that the town will be in favor.


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## benski (May 29, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> Lengthening it at the top might require more permits than a direct replacement.  Probably worth the extra hassle though.



I think your correct, new lifts also are typically wider than old ones, so it might not be possible for many ski area to avoid getting permits.


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## SIKSKIER (May 29, 2018)

Its also a quad vs a double so the liftline has to be cleared wider if not already as I'm not familiar with the whole length of the Black.


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## IceEidolon (May 29, 2018)

Quad versus triple - Old Black Lift had triple chairs, even though they couldn't load them to capacity. I'm more worried about tower height, since Black used to be very short. 

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## SkiingInABlueDream (May 29, 2018)

Actually, there were loading 2 ppl per chair every other chair, which makes the chair a single. So going from a single to quad means they'll need to widen the lift line trail 4x as much. [emoji16]


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## thetrailboss (May 29, 2018)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Actually, there were loading 2 ppl per chair every other chair, which makes the chair a single. So going from a single to quad means they'll need to widen the lift line trail 4x as much. [emoji16]



Huh?  I don't think it needs to be that wide.


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## slatham (May 29, 2018)

You can't piss in VT without Act 250 permits, so you can be dam sure you need one to go from a triple (or whatever that Frankenlift is) to a quad. They are being conservative because of the long Act 250 process and the short window to complete such a project, IMO. And at least according to the VT Act 250 database, the permit request has not been filed yet (not that I'd expect it to - you need a lot of things lined up first, not least the surveyor data that was being done last week).


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## SkiingInABlueDream (May 29, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> Huh?  I don't think it needs to be that wide.



I was being facetious. 

[emoji16]


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## Pez (May 30, 2018)

slatham said:


> You can't piss in VT without Act 250 permits, so you can be dam sure you need one to go from a triple (or whatever that Frankenlift is) to a quad. They are being conservative because of the long Act 250 process and the short window to complete such a project, IMO. And at least according to the VT Act 250 database, the permit request has not been filed yet (not that I'd expect it to - you need a lot of things lined up first, not least the surveyor data that was being done last week).



ah-oh.  i peed right off the trail somewhere on Sunbrook this winter.


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## bdfreetuna (May 31, 2018)

Pez said:


> ah-oh.  i peed right off the trail somewhere on Sunbrook this winter.



off the trail huh?


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## Pez (May 31, 2018)

Haha


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## Do Work (Jun 4, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, if they are replacing the Black, then they may be able to do it without a permit.  Unless the rules have changed.  They are replacing an existing lift.





Basically the extension up top requires 250 approval and assurance to A&R/ Fish & Wildlife that we are outside the buffer zone on a few sensitive areas and that all considerations are being handled properly.  Even if we kept it in the same footprint Black used we'd still need 250 approval though fwiw.  Even though we have wide leeway in terms of our ability to widen trails (normally trail cutback is a yearly thing but we are fighting off about 20 years of overgrowth in most places), the new liftline will shift a bit to the east, so more cutting will have to happen no matter what.  Thankfully we are just below Bicknell Thrush territory but there are other necessary considerations as well.  It's by far the slowest moving aspect of the deal but we are just stacking up preparations and materials behind that date and staying 110% ready to move the picosecond we get approval.  

We are lumping the lift approval in with the dam project for permit filing purposes, and we have a decent timeline to work with.  It's still going to be a huge undertaking, but we are confident.  Exhausted, but confident.  We are no strangers to tight timelines, undersized workforces, shoestring budgets and big projects!


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## benski (Jun 4, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Thankfully we are just below Bicknell Thrush territory but there are other necessary considerations as well.



Wasn't Bricknells Thrush removed from the list of protected species?


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## sull1102 (Jun 4, 2018)

It was indeed!

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## JamaicaMan (Jun 5, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> It was indeed!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Stratton does indeed have to work around that little Thrush...


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## slatham (Jun 6, 2018)

And now for a non-VAIL post....brought to you by our independent, non-corporate, throwback friends at Magic!

No June Swoon

Magic is busy on 3 major projects for next ski season and we are also getting ready for summer openings at the end of the month with both the Black Line Tavern and Magic Mountain National Disc Golf 18-hole course going live on June 28th.

And, it seems, the ski industry is busy as well. The latest news is that Vail is now bringing our neighbor to the north Okemo under its corporate umbrella. It's pouring ski resort consolidation and Vail is fighting Alterra Group for who's umbrella is going to be bigger.

Meanwhile about 20 miles south, little ol' Magic will keep zagging to the industry's zigging. Proudly independent. Totally throwback. Happily different.

But make no mistake, Magic is on the move. You just always have to watch out for a few pot holes on our road...

Here's what's been happening:

- Season pass early bird sales were up--like a bunch. So thanks to more of you making Magic a part of your lives!

- I just signed the formal sales agreement last week with Bill Nupp, my Stratton counterpart, for the Snow Bowl quad lift. A large check is heading there and a large lift is heading here this month!

- The Green mid-mountain lift has more work and costs than expected, but we have a great new contractor in Tim Pfister Mountain Services helping install that lift. Green Lift should be finished sometime in July.

- The snowmaking pond expansion project (double water volume) is working its way through the state permitting and approval process. Not unsurprisingly, costs for this project go up, and not down, with each new hurdle to overcome, but the state is really working hard with us to have shovels in the ground by August so that is good news.

- The guys (Matt and Tim) are putting the finishing touches on the final 9-holes of our disc golf course so every one has a great 18-hole course to play this summer.

- Look for both the Black Line Tavern and the Magic Mountain National Disc Golf Course to open for the summer on June 28th. Remember, we know how to have a good time on this mountain (inside and out) no matter what time of year it is.

- The Magic Outing Club has two marked hiking trails up Magic ("easier" east, harder west) and a new Red Line Scramble race up Red Line on July 28th (yes, up--and not on the chairlift)--there's more info here

On behalf of all our employees, thanks for supporting Magic and we hope to see you here in Vermont this summer so you can relax and have some fun while watching our progress. Yes, it's a difficult competitive environment for independent ski areas. But, for Magic, we're going to follow our own path with our fellow ski and ride enthusiasts who want to connect with something deeper. We couldn't be more stoked for the future of skiing here in Londonderry.

Magic is happening!

- Geoff
SKI MAGIC LLC
Where skiing still has its soul.


                                           FUN UPCOMING EVENTS

- Black Line Tavern and 18-Hole Disc Golf Official Opening Day
- Independence Day Party, Band, Cook Out and Fireworks July 7th
- Red Line Scramble July 28th--a race UP Red!
- Magic's Golf/Disc Golf Biathlon Tournament, sponsored by Fiddlehead, August 18th
- Black Line Summer Music Series


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## sull1102 (Jun 6, 2018)

Great to see the mountain progressing so well and adding more summer events. That Red Line race should be a hit for years to come with the way those adventure trail running races have taken off in popularity recently. 

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## thetrailboss (Jun 11, 2018)

Posted on FB by Magic.  The quad from Stratton getting prepped for its move:


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## mister moose (Jun 11, 2018)

"Creatures of Magic", a recent release from Burlington Beer Co.  Single IPA with oats, full bodied juicy orange IPA.  Should be_ de riguer _to be on tap this winter.  (Sorry for the sideways photo, seems to be no way to correct for this)


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jun 12, 2018)

Right click, save to desktop, Windows viewer, one turn to the right, close and save. Upload.

You must be an iPhone user...


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## mister moose (Jun 12, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Right click, save to desktop, Windows viewer, one turn to the right, close and save. Upload.
> 
> You must be an iPhone user...



Except it's not that easy.

The photo appears upright on my laptop.  (This one happened to be uploaded direct from my phone)


Many times in the recent past I uploaded a photo, it was sideways, check photo, upright, upload to PC, upright, upload to forum, sideways, go back to pc and rotate, upload to forum, sideways, go back to pc, rotate again, upload to forum upside down, and on it went.  This time I had no patience and just left the sideways photo.

My theory is that there is now on some phones (or maybe all) a secondary photo tag that carries vertical -horizontal aspect orientation info, in addition to the which end up tag.  My current combination of camera/OS/browser is unable to deal with it.  If you have any insight other than "upload and rotate", I'm all ears.


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## JoeB-Z (Jun 20, 2018)

New report on Black and Green lift progress:

https://www.magicmtn.com/

Also in Alpine update if you get those.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jun 20, 2018)

> My estimate for completion of our new mid-mountain lift is end of July.  We have spent the extra money so this lift will also be downloadable  during the summer/fall months as well. So think Saturday fall foliage  rides and beerfests this fall at Sunshine Corner



:beer:


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jun 20, 2018)

"*With the desired upper terminus end point about 300' to looker's right (looking up the mountain) of the Red terminus area,* the new line will bring the lift further away from the trees on looker's right as it works it way up the hill and gradually toward the middle of Black Line by the final cliff section and then over more toward looker's left side of Black Line as it passes the Witch intersection and up into the woods on looker's left of the famed Black Magic section."

 Any idea of how much added vertical is anticipated from the top of red? Im exited to see this in person to get a better idea of the "new" black line terrain


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 20, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> "*With the desired upper terminus end point about 300' to looker's right (looking up the mountain) of the Red terminus area,* the new line will bring the lift further away from the trees on looker's right as it works it way up the hill and gradually toward the middle of Black Line by the final cliff section and then over more toward looker's left side of Black Line as it passes the Witch intersection and up into the woods on looker's left of the famed Black Magic section."
> 
> Any idea of how much added vertical is anticipated from the top of red? Im exited to see this in person to get a better idea of the "new" black line terrain



Same vert as Red now.


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## bigbob (Jun 21, 2018)

moose, turn the phone 90 degrees then take the photo and upload.


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## slatham (Jun 21, 2018)

I'm interested to see what the new terrain under the top of the Quad and skiers right of Black Magic looks like. My understanding is this will be a totally new line and would certainly offer a challenge. 

Down further it looks like the new lifeline might widen the very lower part Black Magic - down hill of the cross over from Witch?? 

Can't wait to get up there in a couple of weeks.


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## Smellytele (Jun 21, 2018)

slatham said:


> I'm interested to see what the new terrain under the top of the Quad and skiers right of Black Magic looks like. My understanding is this will be a totally new line and would certainly offer a challenge.
> 
> Down further it looks like the new lifeline might widen the very lower part Black Magic - down hill of the cross over from Witch??
> 
> Can't wait to get up there in a couple of weeks.



With act250 there probably won't be anything done in a couple of weeks.


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## slatham (Jun 21, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> With act250 there probably won't be anything done in a couple of weeks.



Agreed except the bare bones line has been cut and you can walk (or rather climb) down it.....


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## rtjcbrown (Jun 22, 2018)

Have they started taking the old Black lift down yet?


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## slatham (Jun 22, 2018)

rtjcbrown said:


> Have they started taking the old Black lift down yet?



I believe not from what I have heard and from what I have seen in pics. From what I can tell regarding the line of the new Quad, the old lift does not need to come down so I would guess this will be less of a priority.


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## JamaicaMan (Jun 22, 2018)

slatham said:


> I believe not from what I have heard and from what I have seen in pics. From what I can tell regarding the line of the new Quad, the old lift does not need to come down so I would guess this will be less of a priority.



We will be using Black lift to ferry materials to hard to access spots for install of new lift so won’t tear it down until late summer when that project begins most likely


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## benski (Jun 22, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> We will be using Black lift to ferry materials to hard to access spots for install of new lift so won’t tear it down until late summer when that project begins most likely
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Would this mean the lift line has to be wide enough for both the triple and quad at the top where I see its very narrow.


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## bdfreetuna (Jun 22, 2018)

Wow you guys are really making it happen. I blinked, look again and you got a Quad being installed and top of Black line extended (or whatever it is).

Excited. I'll be mostly excited to see how the early snowmaking push works out, of course depending on weather. Once the snow starts flying my loyalties fly out the window, so to speak. For example, I have no particular affection for Mount Snow, but they kicked ass early this year, so I was there.

Only point of that statement is for your own marketing research. Open terrain % is my draw, I'm sure that applies to plenty of others as well. The fact that Magic will open terrain sometimes when it's dicey in my mind is a big PLUS not a minus. A little more snowmaking and Magic becomes a very attractive option throughout more of the season.

From what I saw last season you stepped up the game in that regard even given some tough stretches.


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## slatham (Jun 22, 2018)

benski said:


> Would this mean the lift line has to be wide enough for both the triple and quad at the top where I see its very narrow.



The top of the Quad line, in the area of Black Magic, will be a separate run through the woods to lookers left/skiers right of Black Magic. So assuming skiable it will be a new trail. The lower section - Black Line & Hocus Pocus - are plenty wide for both.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 28, 2018)




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## mbedle (Jun 29, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


>



I love that...


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## sull1102 (Jun 29, 2018)

Same here, really amazing to see it all actually happening!!! Great things are happenin at Magic!

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## slatham (Jun 30, 2018)

June 30 trip report.

New roof on Red. Chairs off for annual grip test.







Standing near summit of Black looking up the new Quad line






For perspective I am in same spot looking across to Black 






Now I am looking down the line from same spot.






This is where the Quad will cross Wand on Hocus Pocus.






And this is where the base terminal will be.







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## slatham (Jun 30, 2018)

A bit more. I hiked down part of the new Quad line. Awesome potential for another serious Magic double black. Anyway for perspective of where the Quad is going.






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## NYDB (Jul 1, 2018)

slatham said:


> A bit more. I hiked down part of the new Quad line. Awesome potential for another serious Magic double black. Anyway for perspective of where the Quad is going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. that really gives a great idea where the new line is and how it will work its way further down BL.


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## Rowsdower (Jul 2, 2018)

When are the old towers coming down?


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## slatham (Jul 2, 2018)

Rowsdower said:


> When are the old towers coming down?



Geoff said previously not until new Quad is installed as they want to use the old Black Lift to haul equipment up to the steeper sections.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 2, 2018)

slatham said:


> A bit more. I hiked down part of the new Quad line. Awesome potential for another serious Magic double black. Anyway for perspective of where the Quad is going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anyone wanna explain the random building at the true summit of Magic in the central-lower area of this image?


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## slatham (Jul 2, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Anyone wanna explain the random building at the true summit of Magic in the central-lower area of this image?



Cell towers.......


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## Smellytele (Jul 5, 2018)

*[FONT=&quot]Lodge flooded but  Independence Celebration is a go for Saturday July 7th[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You just never know what surprises are in store when you own a business. Well, this one occured overnight for a 12 hour period from Sunday night after closing the Black Line Tavern into Monday morning.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We're calling it: "The Soda Fountain Flood".​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It started when the water inlet to the carbonator failed (soda gun). Pretty small device. But when it failed, water was released at 50 pounds of pressure from about 9pm until the office opened up on Monday. Truly amazing to see how much water came out and how much damage was done. Not just up at the Black Line Tavern, but down below it into the cafeteria and kitchen area, and even down to the main entry level door. A river runs through it, I guess.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Needless to say, the Black Line Tavern will not be serving food for a couple/few weeks as damage is assessed, mitigated and then repaired. We will be able to serve cold beer and wine on the deck depending on weather for cocktail hours (5-8p) Thursday and Friday in a relaxed atmosphere outside, with access to facilities.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And, importantly, everything is still a go for our biggest little Independence Day celebration on July 7th. The Hound Dogs truck will be in to do food service (as well as  the fried dough folks) and we will be serving up cold drinks, beers and wine starting at 5pm with music playing until our live band Goofyfoot takes the stage on the deck at 7:30 and plays until 11:30! The fireworks show put on by the town of Londonderry then lights up the sky at around 9:15. So come early. Eat, drink, play disc golf and cornhole, listen to great music outside, and enjoy a wonderful community atmosphere on what is forecasted to be a glorious day and night on the mountain. (Get here early to stake out your blankets/chairs on the lawn to listen/dance to Goofyfoot and then watch the fireworks.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The "Soda Fountain Flood" of 2018 is just another obstacle to be overcome here at Magic, and we have a fantastic team of employees and vendors already getting after it to get the lodge back in shape as soon as possible. In the meantime, thank you for your patience. Magic is still open for disc golf daily (golf season passes are here) and deck drinks Thursday-Saturdays until we open back up the BLT kitchen, dining and full bar experience in a few weeks.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Happy 4th of July to all and come celebrate America's Independence (always a day with special meaning here) on Saturday July 7th!​​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Overcome and Think Fun!​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- Geoff[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SKI MAGIC LLC
Where skiing still has its soul.​   [/FONT]


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## bdfreetuna (Jul 11, 2018)

slatham said:


> Cell towers.......



Hopefully Magic is getting their money's worth from that lease. I hear $20k - $40k a year is the going rate.


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## Smellytele (Jul 11, 2018)

Magic was on the Mad fisherman on NESN the other night. I tried to dvr it but it was on later than it was supposed to be and I recorded something else instead.


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## benski (Jul 11, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Hopefully Magic is getting their money's worth from that lease. I hear $20k - $40k a year is the going rate.



Being on top of a mountain it’s a great location, so probably a lot.


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## slatham (Jul 12, 2018)

benski said:


> Being on top of a mountain it’s a great location, so probably a lot.



If I recall I saw a property map of what Magic owned and there was a box carved out in that area so the cell owners may own the property. Now whether Magic gets a fee for the use of the work road for access is a good question.


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## Newpylong (Jul 12, 2018)

Other mountain have done the same thing - tower owner purchased the land (because the mountain needed quick cash) and now the mountain does not receive lease payments that would have far exceeded the sale cost.


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## bdfreetuna (Jul 12, 2018)

I can't imagine selling a 40 square foot plot of land when everyone else leases it.

Look at urban areas, most of the cell transmitters are on top of existing buildings, this is merely a lease. Even most cases when you see a cell tower on farm land, it's a lease.

Not really familiar with rural / mountain arrangements but it would be a shame if they got short changed.


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 12, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Hopefully Magic is getting their money's worth from that lease. I hear $20k - $40k a year is the going rate.



Wish. The priors owners of course needed quick cash and sold it off. So Ski Magic gets zero dollars and lousy land owners at the top of the mtn doing harm to our mtn often going off their horribly built work road (boulders) onto grass trails. And, they don’t maintain or improve the road...

Major sore point and prior owners came away with about the same amount of cash selling it as they would in 1-2 years of leasing. Smh


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## bdfreetuna (Jul 12, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Wish. The priors owners of course needed quick cash and sold it off. So Ski Magic gets zero dollars and lousy land owners at the top of the mtn doing harm to our mtn often going off their horribly built work road (boulders) onto grass trails. And, they don’t maintain or improve the road...
> 
> Major sore point and prior owners came away with about the same amount of cash selling it as they would in 1-2 years of leasing. Smh



That sucks. New designated "bra tree"?


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## bdfreetuna (Jul 12, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Wish. The priors owners of course needed quick cash and sold it off. So Ski Magic gets zero dollars and lousy land owners at the top of the mtn doing harm to our mtn often going off their horribly built work road (boulders) onto grass trails. And, they don’t maintain or improve the road...
> 
> Major sore point and prior owners came away with about the same amount of cash selling it as they would in 1-2 years of leasing. Smh



That sucks. New designated "bra tree"?


----------



## mbedle (Jul 12, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Wish. The priors owners of course needed quick cash and sold it off. So Ski Magic gets zero dollars and lousy land owners at the top of the mtn doing harm to our mtn often going off their horribly built work road (boulders) onto grass trails. And, they don’t maintain or improve the road...
> 
> Major sore point and prior owners came away with about the same amount of cash selling it as they would in 1-2 years of leasing. Smh
> 
> ...



Might want to review the easement they have on your property. Just wondering if it is specific enough to limit what trail/road they must use to access the property.


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## slatham (Jul 13, 2018)

Cool video post on social media about the Green tower assemblies being delivered next week for installation. Progress!


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## Do Work (Jul 25, 2018)

mbedle said:


> Might want to review the easement they have on your property. Just wondering if it is specific enough to limit what trail/road they must use to access the property.





Don't get me started.  I can't handle that kind of rage atm.


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## mbedle (Jul 25, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Don't get me started.  I can't handle that kind of rage atm.



Sorry man - didn't mean to light a fire.


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## WoodCore (Jul 25, 2018)

ACT 250 permit application has been submitted........... https://anrweb.vt.gov/ANR/vtANR/Act250SearchResults.aspx?Num=2W0524-24


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## slatham (Jul 25, 2018)

WoodCore said:


> ACT 250 permit application has been submitted........... https://anrweb.vt.gov/ANR/vtANR/Act250SearchResults.aspx?Num=2W0524-24



Thanks. I actually checked today but it must have been before they posted it. Glad to see this is finally in. Hopefully it only takes 4 weeks or so (which seems more or less average from casual observation of these type of filings) so they can start by Sept 1 and get done by the end of November, which was the time frame mentioned. Sounds a bit ambitious but what do I know. I hope the weather cooperates and Green gets done by September without issue as I assume the same crew will install. 

Also interesting that one of the docs mentioned 2 other simultaneous projects: the pond, which I expected to be in the mix, but also pipes on Kinderspiel? I wonder if that is really on the list for this summer - it would be a great addition to the snowmaking terrain with Green going in.

Let's hope all goes as planned.


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## benski (Jul 25, 2018)

WoodCore said:


> ACT 250 permit application has been submitted........... https://anrweb.vt.gov/ANR/vtANR/Act250SearchResults.aspx?Num=2W0524-24



According to the application. The Motor is only 400 horsepower, with an  I. C. engine that has only 140 horsepower. I assume I. C. is the backup. This seams awfully low, but I don't know that much, are lift significantly more efficient than a car?  The document also says the lift goes 550 ft a minuet, so its not a slow lift.


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## cdskier (Jul 25, 2018)

benski said:


> According to the application. The Motor is only 400 horsepower, with an  I. C. engine that has only 140 horsepower. I assume I. C. is the backup. This seams awfully low, but I don't know that much, are lift significantly more efficient than a car?  The document also says the lift goes 550 ft a minuet, so its not a slow lift.



Why do you think that sounds low? For comparison, Sugarbush's Valley House Quad has a 400HP motor and Belleayre's new Gondola has a 600 HP primary drive and a 130 HP Evac drive unit.


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## benski (Jul 25, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Why do you think that sounds low? For comparison, Sugarbush's Valley House Quad has a 400HP motor and Belleayre's new Gondola has a 600 HP primary drive and a 130 HP Evac drive unit.



I am just surprised to see an evac drive being less powerful than a Honda civic’s engine. Do these lifts run at maximum horsepower all the time, are they only consuming energy a few times as fast as a Suburban?


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## Newpylong (Jul 26, 2018)

APUs, unless specifically ordered differently (like the Superquad at Sugarloaf), are just meant to unload the lift at slow speed in the event of a primary failure. They don't need high HP.


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## jaytrem (Jul 26, 2018)

benski said:


> The document also says the lift goes 550 ft a minuet, so its not a slow lift.



Better buy a loading carpet if they want to run it that fast!


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## sull1102 (Jul 26, 2018)

Think about older motors too, wasn't too too long ago you could find a car with 75-100 horsepower.

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## cdskier (Jul 26, 2018)

benski said:


> I am just surprised to see an evac drive being less powerful than a Honda civic’s engine. Do these lifts run at maximum horsepower all the time, are they only consuming energy a few times as fast as a Suburban?



Like newpylong stated, if a secondary motor is intended only to be used for Evac at reduced speed, it doesn't need to be that powerful. In terms of the maximum horsepower question, generally speaking the answer would be no from some of the design specs I've seen. The Belleayre gondola for example has a 600HP motor, but the expected theoretical continuous HP need was only around 500HP.


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## drjeff (Jul 26, 2018)

benski said:


> According to the application. The Motor is only 400 horsepower, with an  I. C. engine that has only 140 horsepower. I assume I. C. is the backup. This seams awfully low, but I don't know that much, are lift significantly more efficient than a car?  The document also says the lift goes 550 ft a minuet, so its not a slow lift.



What a lift can run at, verses what it will actually run at, are often 2 different things.  I think that anyone who rode that quad at Stratton will agree that it didn't run at 550 ft/min, and given that it's the same drive motor, same chairs, etc, I think that "faster than the old Black, but not 550 ft/min" will likely be what the lift runs at this winter


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## Newpylong (Jul 26, 2018)

FYI most circa 1980s or newer fixed grips are name plated 550fpm design speed.


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## ss20 (Jul 26, 2018)

I don't think you can run a quad at 550fpm...the state regulates maximum loading speeds and the more people per chair the slower it has to run for safety at load/unload.


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## Do Work (Jul 26, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Why do you think that sounds low? For comparison, Sugarbush's Valley House Quad has a 400HP motor and Belleayre's new Gondola has a 600 HP primary drive and a 130 HP Evac drive unit.





What's fascinating to me is the gearing involved in the transmissions used in a chairlift.  With the Red Chair, it gears it down so far you can turn the main shaft by hand.  

Also, APUs are generally Diesel motors so a 140hp motor can have gobs and gobs of torque.  With an APU being an extremely low speed motor, it allows for some pretty impressive output when coupled with a proper gearbox.  It's not a car so comparing it to one is not really apples to oranges.     

Also to address the questions put forth so far, yes we will be running the Dam, TBurg pump station and Black replacement simultaneously if the state sees fit to approve our plans.  We have obsessively been fretting over the meticulous details, as making sure the permitting goes smoothly is of paramount concern.  This is year 2 of the Dam process though, and I can't imagine there's another quagmire to get stuck in at this point.  Fingers crossed now, it's basically out of our hands until it gets the stamp of approval.  Until then it's just all about keeping contractors and surveyors, engineers etc. all moving fast enough to be ready when we get said stamp.  It's been an all-consuming process.  Exhausting doesn't even begin to describe life up here right now but we are kicking ass and making headway every day.  I will try to update here as things progress, but I may get a little distracted so bear with me.  

It's definitely very important to us to be as transparent and open to all our customers ad casual observers, so don't hesitate if you have a burning question.  We will do our best to answer it for you.  Thanks everybody!


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## slatham (Jul 26, 2018)

Do Work said:


> What's fascinating to me is the gearing involved in the transmissions used in a chairlift.  With the Red Chair, it gears it down so far you can turn the main shaft by hand.
> 
> Also, APUs are generally Diesel motors so a 140hp motor can have gobs and gobs of torque.  With an APU being an extremely low speed motor, it allows for some pretty impressive output when coupled with a proper gearbox.  It's not a car so comparing it to one is not really apples to oranges.
> 
> ...



Great info. Good luck with all the permits! And thank you Do Work!


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## bdfreetuna (Jul 28, 2018)

I don't think lifts are getting revved out to 8000 rpm (or even relatively speaking) so horsepower might not be even an important # in that application. Seems to me torque and brakes are what matters.


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## IceEidolon (Jul 28, 2018)

slatham said:


> Also interesting that one of the docs mentioned 2 other simultaneous projects: the pond, which I expected to be in the mix, but also pipes on Kinderspiel? I wonder if that is really on the list for this summer - it would be a great addition to the snowmaking terrain with Green going in.



Any snowmaking off Green should be low down enough for low E guns, no? Kinderspiel is more sheltered/shaded than Hocus Pocus, too, and feeds right into Green Lift. If that snowmaking upgrade happens it'll be interesting to see what guns are used (portable vs. fixed) and how it changes early season ops 

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Newpylong (Jul 28, 2018)

Considering the 10-30 footers are already installed on existing mounts, short of another order, it would make sense to just use the Viper and Impulse sleds there. Or only lay new water pipe and install more fan gun plugs since the trail has some acreage to it. IF they've even thought that far with the 300 other projects going on. Cue Do Work / JM.


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## IceEidolon (Jul 28, 2018)

I know for a fan expansion for our tube park the number $100k got tossed around. That was to support 10 guns at once via 14 outlets and that doesn't include new pipe or buried power or the fans themselves. I would be a bit suprised if that was cheaper than just air and water, but Magic has been known to build once, right, rather than cheap out on critical infrastructure. 

I'd imagine air water and Vipers/Impulse sleds is the way to go myself, but I've been wrong before - perhaps 30' towers with better throw and marginal preformance get picked, maybe they're grabbing fans at a steal.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Newpylong (Jul 28, 2018)

That's heavy I had 5 more plugs put in last year it was around 15K parts and labor. We trench and put the plywood/posts up, they do the hookups. 

6" .219 wall for air was like $11/foot last I looked so you're looking at about 30k for pipe delivered if KS is like 2500 feet long. You could do 4" air too for prob $8/ft. Need ball valves too. Might be a toss up putting an air line vs more plugs. Only team Magic knows whats best!

They already has their Arecos.


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## IceEidolon (Jul 28, 2018)

Hmm. I wasn't on that project directly, so maybe there's some aspect that raised the price I don't know about that wouldn't apply, future proofing or something.

Even if fan power is priced the same as  running air, though, Magic has only so many Arecos - not a lot for that much trail, especially not to open it quickly. Eight fans can do a lot but that trail is a half mile - without buying more fans, that's 2600'/8 for 325 feet of trail per gun. Not impossible, but pretty thin.

Regardless, I'm sure there are factors we don't know - if Magic is considering more snowmaking coverage they must be planning a serious effort this winter, one way or another, and I look forward to seeing how the new lifts and capacity plays out.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 29, 2018)

Kinder is not in the immediate future. Lifts are expensive. More so than planned quite frankly.


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## IceEidolon (Jul 29, 2018)

10-4, I was surprised it was ever in the discussion. Regardless I'll be curious to watch how y'all roll out the white carpet this year.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Do Work (Jul 30, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I don't think lifts are getting revved out to 8000 rpm (or even relatively speaking) so horsepower might not be even an important # in that application. Seems to me torque and brakes are what matters.




Essentially yes.  Think of how massively powerful a 160hp diesel tractor or excavator is vs. a 160hp car.  Apples to oranges for sure when it's a torque function and horsepower is just along for the ride.


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## Do Work (Jul 30, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> Any snowmaking off Green should be low down enough for low E guns, no? Kinderspiel is more sheltered/shaded than Hocus Pocus, too, and feeds right into Green Lift. If that snowmaking upgrade happens it'll be interesting to see what guns are used (portable vs. fixed) and how it changes early season ops
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk




Yes, correct.  We will have to use baby rats etc across sunshine corner due to the huge area needed to cover and relatively low number of hydrants avaiable, but everything else is vipers and 10' impulse sleds from there down unless we're running everything and there's air left on tap.    

We wont be able to get pipe to Kinder this season, just too much else going on.  We also want to add fixed tower bases on LMC, Showoff, Hocus Pocus and Mystery (which is also disconnected now and will need extensive repair) but that will have to wait also.  With how complicated our permitting process was this year, that's a next year deal.  Has to be.  We've got about 50 HKD spectrum guns to go through, renozzle and get back out there but again, not enough hours in the day this season.  We are aggressively planning out the dialing of the lower mountain trails' system (while minimizing cost using what we've got or can make happen ourselves) to maximize the speed we can blow in from Green down early season.  It will take a while to get it all, but when it's done it will be crazy nice and very effective.  We're also rebuilding our 300cfm IR diesel backup this season so having that extra oomph early on will be extra nice.  



Newpylong said:


> Considering the 10-30 footers are already installed on existing mounts, short of another order, it would make sense to just use the Viper and Impulse sleds there. Or only lay new water pipe and install more fan gun plugs since the trail has some acreage to it. IF they've even thought that far with the 300 other projects going on. Cue Do Work / JM.



Yes, for now absolutely.  As said above we have a bunch of extra oldie but goodie towers lying around, but they need a little love we can't give them right now, nor do we have the pipe footings to put them on.  Next season for sure.  On the bright side we pulled all or 10' fixed towers from last season, replaced them with 20'ers and put the 10s on sleds, so the mobile fleet is 50% bigger than last year which is huge.  I LOVE those sleds!   




IceEidolon said:


> I know for a fan expansion for our tube park the number $100k got tossed around. That was to support 10 guns at once via 14 outlets and that doesn't include new pipe or buried power or the fans themselves. I would be a bit suprised if that was cheaper than just air and water, but Magic has been known to build once, right, rather than cheap out on critical infrastructure.
> 
> I'd imagine air water and Vipers/Impulse sleds is the way to go myself, but I've been wrong before - perhaps 30' towers with better throw and marginal preformance get picked, maybe they're grabbing fans at a steal.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk



That seems really high but fixed fans are for ballers so what do I know?  lol.  We replaced 2k' last summer and that was in a similar ballpark although one of our investors owns a pipe/steel company so we got a smoking deal on raw materials and I TIG'd it all myself, with our own operator on the sticks of a rental excavator.  Basically operated at a fraction of the cost a contractor would have charged.  For us it's all about maximizing return with minimal expenditure.  I obsess over squeezing every penny until boogers fly out of Lincoln's nose.  That said, new 30' impulse towers are about $5k each so there's $50k right there if you went that route.      

If I was adding pipe and 10 hydrants to blow in a tubing park, I'd probably try to go with the tallest and most reliably versatile low e sticks I could fit there unless it's the world's largest tubing park.  Fans are just so astronomically expensive apiece, they're generally a last resort unless we're talking about a huge area that's under constant care and with huge demand such as a terrain park, the base area etc.  I know we got an estimate to replace Hocus Pocus and Showoff's power lines and that alone was over $100k.  We have all portable fans that we move around with huge cords, and it works great for us when we need to fill in a certain area fast.  Can't wait until our Arecos start to shed their chrysalis and spread their winds as polecats though, that will be amazing.  All in good time!


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## Do Work (Jul 30, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> That's heavy I had 5 more plugs put in last year it was around 15K parts and labor. We trench and put the plywood/posts up, they do the hookups.
> 
> 6" .219 wall for air was like $11/foot last I looked so you're looking at about 30k for pipe delivered if KS is like 2500 feet long. You could do 4" air too for prob $8/ft. Need ball valves too. Might be a toss up putting an air line vs more plugs. Only team Magic knows whats best!
> 
> They already has their Arecos.




We went full 8" @.375" everywhere when we replaced everything in the base area.  Even air!  I want the next time they need to be addressed to be my grandkids' problem.  The only thing that got 4" was water return lines, which are only providing backpressure and safety flow anyways.  More importantly, we took out several hack job pipe "repairs" that literally consisted of 8" pipe with a flat plate welded on the end, a little hole flame cut into the plate, a 6" 90 degree elbow with another similar flat plate welded on the end of that, and back up to 8" again.  We knew something like that was there due to mathematical deficiencies observed at hydrants above it, bit I still couldn't believe my eyes when we unearthed it/them.  Also our West side feed was a 6" valve in the middle of 8" pipe all this time!  Unacceptable!!!  Our wide-open sustained pressure increased dramatically after we fixed everything, which really helped us get that water out there as well as run low-e guns higher up, not to mention improves start speed and shutdown safety (neck downs can hold water which will freeze and can create jams when restarting etc.)

It's such an interesting situation to be in because the system was designed as a full loop originally, but prior regimes turned it into a dead head tree and replaced a bunch of 8" with 6" in areas we are still pulling out, especially going up Wiz.  Give me a few years though and we will have this baby purring like a kitten again, better than it ever was for pennies on the dollar.  It's a daunting task to try to plan this all out in an incremental fashion that is both attainable and affordable, and in a way that's in line with how we're trying to expand our early season operational plans a la Green Chair and a Turkey Day opening date.     

My OCD has it's hands full, that's for sure.  Every time we complete a project I sleep good for like a week and then it's back to having long conversations with my ceiling and hours spent in the "war room" scratching my head, reevaluating timelines and budgets etc. when reality's inevitable curveballs come screaming in.  Magic is such a complicated organism it's tough to stay on top of, but we are doing it pretty damn well IMO.


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## slatham (Jul 31, 2018)

Do Work thanks for all of the details. Its amazing what you have done in addition to what us tourists can easily see. Its also so depressing what previous hack jobs were done! Even I know better than to slot in a 6" valve or 6" section in the midst of 8" pipe. WTF? And to dead end an efficient loop system? Almost as bad as selling vs. leasing cell tower land! Keep up the good work. Looking forward to volunteer day(s) this fall, and maybe turkey day skiing at Magic????


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## Do Work (Aug 1, 2018)

slatham said:


> Do Work thanks for all of the details. Its amazing what you have done in addition to what us tourists can easily see. Its also so depressing what previous hack jobs were done! Even I know better than to slot in a 6" valve or 6" section in the midst of 8" pipe. WTF? And to dead end an efficient loop system? Almost as bad as selling vs. leasing cell tower land! Keep up the good work. Looking forward to volunteer day(s) this fall, and maybe turkey day skiing at Magic????





Thanks Steve.  It has really been an all-consuming task to try to wrap our heads around the true scope of the project and figuring out cost effective ways and orders in which to tackle everything is always a challenge.  It is truly a wonder that it was able to run all those years like that.    

Super rewarding though, watching this place tangibly improve every day, seeing the customer base blossom in front of our eyes and hearing all the wonderful feedback from our patrons is one of the most fulfilling things I have ever been a part of.  We are truly building an institution and that's exactly how everyone on staff here feels- it's not just skiing to us. 

I'll be popping back in when I can to update everyone and as always will try to answer questions as best I can.  Thanks for the positive encouragement and keep spreading the good word about Magic!


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 1, 2018)

Thread needs some color.  All from this past season.


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## Killingtime (Aug 2, 2018)

I never gave any consideration to Magic but now I'm intrigued after reading this thread. I just put it on the hit list for this coming winter.


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## ShadyGrove (Aug 2, 2018)

Killingtime said:


> I never gave any consideration to Magic but now I'm intrigued after reading this thread. I just put it on the hit list for this coming winter.



You won't like it. 


;-)


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## Smellytele (Aug 2, 2018)

*[FONT=&quot]Dog Days​[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​ [FONT=&quot]Hard to believe that August is upon us. Summer is getting stickier and fall is right around the corner so everybody here is already prepping for w-i-n-t-e-r. That means our crew will all be "working lke dogs" to get Magic ready for you.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But, we are also enjoying summer here with disc golf, hiking, live music, and the great food and beverage service at the BLT. Last weekend saw the first of what will be more uphill extreme running events here at Magic. There was a good turnout for the Redline Scramble with world records set for the ascent up this steep trail (17:20 set by Josh Ferenc). Congratulations go out to all the competitors who even made it up, but especially at the unbelieveable times set by Josh and the top female runner, Katherine Ogden at 19:07. Also, thanks to the Magic Mountain Outing Club and Mike Owens who put on the event! ​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]On the large project front, Pfister Mountain Services is making good progress on the new Green Lift with upper bullwheel installation slated for this coming week, and haul cable soon to follow! The lift installation is currently on track to be completed this month.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The latest timing on permitting approvals for the snowmaking pond expansion and the Black Line Quad puts initiation of work most likely around September 1 if approved. This should be enough time for the pond work to get done this year. The Quad chair installation by winter is a much less certain proposition at that point. Our lift contractor is currently assessing the situation but we will be prepared with two scenarios: 1) Initiation and completion of the Quad install for this winter if timing allows, which would include tear down of the current Black Chair; 2) Initiation of Quad install this fall and completion next summer, which would include retaining the current Black Chair for use this winter. We will keep you posted as always as plans and permitting are finalized.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Magic Mountain National Disc Golf Course has been getting more and more play in between the thunderstorms. Our big charity event is coming up on August 25th both here and at Tater Hill Golf Club. It's our 2nd Annual Master Magician Golf/Disc Golf Biathlon, presented by Fiddlehead Brewing. So save the date and start putting your two-person scramble team together for a fun day and evening of competition, live music (Fennario--music open to all), lunch, dinner, prizes and some of Vermont's finest beer! (Information and registration is here)​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Black Line Tavern (please follow BLT in FB) is here for you Thursdays-Sundays, with tonight's Locals Dinner featuring specials like Cheese Steak Sandwiches, Baked Mac & Cheese and Grilled Chicken over Rice with fresh Vegetables--each under $10--plus our regular full menu! Then there's Friday Magicritas with 50 cent Wings special tomorrow. So stop on by to play, hike, and enjoy the mountain views and company!​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We're very excited about the final installation of the Green Chair this month at it really adds to the accessibility of Magic for all skier abilities and allows us to open the lower East Side of the mountain for skiing and riding potentially by late November/early December. These projects take time but, in the end, the ski experience will keep getting better and better for all at Magic.​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hope to see you here in August. Think Sun!​[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- Geoff[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SKI MAGIC LLC
_[FONT=&quot]Where skiing still has its soul[/FONT]_​[/FONT]


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## slatham (Aug 2, 2018)

Paint it White Rusty, Paint it White.....


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## drjeff (Aug 4, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> *[FONT=&quot]Dog Days​[/FONT]*[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​ [FONT=&quot]Hard to believe that August is upon us. Summer is getting stickier and fall is right around the corner so everybody here is already prepping for w-i-n-t-e-r. That means our crew will all be "working lke dogs" to get Magic ready for you.​[/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]But, we are also enjoying summer here with disc golf, hiking, live music, and the great food and beverage service at the BLT. Last weekend saw the first of what will be more uphill extreme running events here at Magic. There was a good turnout for the Redline Scramble with world records set for the ascent up this steep trail (17:20 set by Josh Ferenc). Congratulations go out to all the competitors who even made it up, but especially at the unbelieveable times set by Josh and the top female runner, Katherine Ogden at 19:07. Also, thanks to the Magic Mountain Outing Club and Mike Owens who put on the event! ​[/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]On the large project front, Pfister Mountain Services is making good progress on the new Green Lift with upper bullwheel installation slated for this coming week, and haul cable soon to follow! The lift installation is currently on track to be completed this month.​[/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]The latest timing on permitting approvals for the snowmaking pond expansion and the Black Line Quad puts initiation of work most likely around September 1 if approved. This should be enough time for the pond work to get done this year. The Quad chair installation by winter is a much less certain proposition at that point. Our lift contractor is currently assessing the situation but we will be prepared with two scenarios: 1) Initiation and completion of the Quad install for this winter if timing allows, which would include tear down of the current Black Chair; 2) Initiation of Quad install this fall and completion next summer, which would include retaining the current Black Chair for use this winter. We will keep you posted as always as plans and permitting are finalized.​[/FONT]
> ...


Ok, mind is blown by part of this update, since if I understand the route of the mentioned uphill foot race correctly, it was basically straight up the length of the Redline to the summit, and if so, the winner's time being essentially what the time it takes to ride the Red to the top!!!! 

Impressive!!!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## ss20 (Aug 4, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Ok, mind is blown by part of this update, since if I understand the route of the mentioned uphill foot race correctly, it was basically straight up the length of the Redline to the summit, and if so, the winner's time being essentially what the time it takes to ride the Red to the top!!!!
> 
> Impressive!!!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Uh....I can barely get down Redline in the uphill ride time unless conditions are perfect...:blink:


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## slatham (Aug 14, 2018)

Great to see the progress on Green, with lead lines for cable going in now so cable install not far behind. Always wanted to see that, with the cable splicing and all. Not sure about Black, but with Green looking real good it will still be the second year in a row with a new lift!


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 14, 2018)

Putting the green chair back in is such a baller move. I'm excited to ski that zone more, I still get a little lost on that part of the hill from time to time.

Black to quad... ser biz 

If you build it, they will come.


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## urungus (Aug 16, 2018)

I received this email update, too bad about the black chair but it seemed awfully ambitious to get it planned, permitted, installed and tested in a few short months...

We have contractors lined up for both the pond expansion project and the new Quad lift project. But, as Steve Miller wrote, "time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping, into the future..."

As of mid-August, still no final state permit approvals, or even a date certain, on the snowmaking pond project (almost 2 years in the works) and the Quad lift (which is really only a short time in the process but is a pretty straightforward Act 250 permit as it's a replacement of an existing lift.) Planning becomes precarious as contractors will not hang around and wait until the last minute when permits are approved. They (we) need to know in advance an accurate time frame when they will be approved and determine whether the project can be done in time for the season and therefore whether to reserve manpower and subcontractors with signed contracts. Businesses need to plan and permitting delays are costly, especially for us small businesses. Our timetables have been lengthened and expenses increased with each permitting delay. But, we continue to work closely with the various state agencies to try and provide all necessary information to insure sound project engineering and environmentally-friendly execution of these projects which is important to every one. The reality is that it increasingly looks like it will be difficult to execute either of these projects fully this fall in time for the new season if approvals slip much further into September, which now seems likely.

The good news is that significant progress is being made on the new Green Lift which dramatically changes Magic's profile this season to a ski area better accessible to young families, including novice and intermediate-level skiers and riders. It also means Magic can open earlier than ever with snowmaking off the new lift as no longer do we have to make snow down 1500 vertical feet to run a lift. (Thinking Thanksgiving weekend or early December if the weather cooperates!). And, work at Sunshine Corner, in combination with the new Green Lift, is going to make that a great event space in the future (think year-round weddings and brewfests).


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## icecoast1 (Aug 17, 2018)

The state of Vermont is really good at stifling progress of any kind with it's insane and crazy permitting and regulations.  Kudos to magic for going all out though, I already bought my pass so I'll be there either way


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## slatham (Aug 28, 2018)

Even with Black delayed there is great stuff happening at Magic with the cable going up on Green yesterday, Trick being "reclaimed" to original width, and possibly work on Wizard Chute too. I can't wait to see the early season snowmaking action off of Green - it completely changes the early season game for them.


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## ShadyGrove (Aug 28, 2018)

slatham said:


> Even with Black delayed there is great stuff happening at Magic with the cable going up on Green yesterday, Trick being "reclaimed" to original width, and possibly work on Wizard Chute too. I can't wait to see the early season snowmaking action off of Green - it completely changes the early season game for them.



Is Trick too narrow or too wide? 

Wizard corner/chute are going to be tough to figure out a better solution to.


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## slatham (Aug 28, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> Is Trick too narrow or too wide?
> 
> Wizard corner/chute are going to be tough to figure out a better solution to.



Trick, lower section, had grown in significantly and was too narrow. 

I think with Wizard Chute - which to me is just the right hand turn drop off uphill from Talisman - it just needs to be widened a bit so its not essentially one track down that gets skied off. I have no problems with it, but its rated intermediate and is the "easy" way down on the West Side. That section turns off a lot of skiers from skiing Wizard, and can be dangerous.


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## ShadyGrove (Aug 28, 2018)

slatham said:


> Trick, lower section, had grown in significantly and was too narrow.
> 
> I think with Wizard Chute - which to me is just the right hand turn drop off uphill from Talisman - it just needs to be widened a bit so its not essentially one track down that gets skied off. I have no problems with it, but its rated intermediate and is the "easy" way down on the West Side. That section turns off a lot of skiers from skiing Wizard, and can be dangerous.



Just saw the FB post.  I guess I hadn't considered it too narrow or too grown in. 

I agree that Wiz Chute is very narrow and tough for many intermediates to navigate.  It gets wicked bumped up after decent snow and is a bobsled run when it's scraped off.  Maybe digging into the uphill side could allow for widening but it might make the right hand bend that much tighter.  That's a tough spot.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 28, 2018)

not all blue squares have to be wide and easy... just saying... don't ski Magic west side unless you want at least a minor challenge

It is fairly similar to Broomstick though


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## ShadyGrove (Aug 29, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> not all blue squares have to be wide and easy... just saying... don't ski Magic west side unless you want at least a minor challenge
> 
> It is fairly similar to Broomstick though



I understand your point and Magic does tend to attract a more 'adventurous' crowd, but Broomstick is listed as a double black so if they ski similarly that's not really fair to folks that have not been before and find themselves soiling their long johns at the top of the wiz chute.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 29, 2018)

Wizard chute is way harder than the rest of the trail. If there are going to be any groomed runs accessable off Wizard - and I'd argue that eventually having a groomed expert trail is a good thing - that becomes the #1 trouble spot over there. 

Someone who is, say, practicing bumps on Talisman maybe isn't ready for bumps with no margin for error on Wizard Chute.

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## slatham (Aug 29, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> Wizard chute is way harder than the rest of the trail. If there are going to be any groomed runs accessable off Wizard - and I'd argue that eventually having a groomed expert trail is a good thing - that becomes the #1 trouble spot over there.
> 
> Someone who is, say, practicing bumps on Talisman maybe isn't ready for bumps with no margin for error on Wizard Chute.
> 
> Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk



Talisman is typically groomed once they put a base down (last year it was "down the middle", previous years skiers left). 

I would expect once the new Black Quad is in Wizard would be a focus of snowmaking and grooming in order to spread out the crowd. In that scenario the Chute becomes a serious issue without a bit of (but not too much!) widening, IMO. JM and DW are well aware if this issue, and indicated that there is a "chance" that the crew working on Trick will get over to Chute this off season.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 29, 2018)

I didn't get to ski Talisman last year except in fresh snow, and it was quite bumped both times I skied it the year before. I don't know what typical is, since I only make it up a couple times a year.

I hope it does work out, because Wizard with a little more snow and a little less chute would be really fun to lap, even without anything else on that side open. 

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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2018)

slatham said:


> Talisman is typically groomed once they put a base down (last year it was "down the middle", previous years skiers left).
> 
> I would expect once the new Black Quad is in Wizard would be a focus of snowmaking and grooming in order to spread out the crowd. In that scenario the Chute becomes a serious issue without a bit of (but not too much!) widening, IMO. JM and DW are well aware if this issue, and indicated that there is a "chance" that the crew working on Trick will get over to Chute this off season.



I didn't get to Magic last year but the previous years Talisman was groomed and was a fun and fast groomer that my wife loved.


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 29, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> I understand your point and Magic does tend to attract a more 'adventurous' crowd, but Broomstick is listed as a double black so if they ski similarly that's not really fair to folks that have not been before and find themselves soiling their long johns at the top of the wiz chute.



Broomstick has been downgraded to single black since it was never that hard to begin with.

I don't know what's so hard about "Wizard Chute", yeah it's a little narrow but that's a good thing. Sometimes it has a few bumps and that's a good thing too. Nobody is forcing anyone to straight line it and there aren't cameras up recording your performance.

I like Magic for being a place where trail ratings aren't watered down just because 1 or 2 people who thought they were intermediates found out they are really beginners.

That part of Wizard isn't even any steeper than the part right before the curve before Slide of Hans entrance. Narrow is good, having only wide trails sucks!

imo if any part of the "Chute" should be widened it would be the really narrow washboard section that is totally flat after the slightly steep section. Tends to get upsie-downsie in there.


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## drjeff (Aug 29, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> I didn't get to Magic last year but the previous years Talisman was groomed and was a fun and fast groomer that my wife loved.



Often the grooming of Talisman is more based on the presence (or lack there of) of a scheduled race on it, than anything else.

Last year, mid February or so if I recall, after the mid season warm ups, but before March and the extended snowstorm showed up, my kids were supposed to have a slalom race on Talisman (it's legitimately one of the toughest slalom courses in VT). Magic started making snow on it for the race, but mother nature wasn't cooperative enough to get enough snow put down on Tali in time for a safe race to be held. Not sure if they had any races scheduled for Tali after that which would of had it getting some groomer love.

That combo of the pitch, the multi fallines and and turn to skiers left towards the end of the course makes it not just a great trail, but a great race hill as well!


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## chair13chin (Aug 30, 2018)

Years ago there was a version of the Magic trail map (pic pasted below) that included a “future trail: Black Magic” that looked like it was planned to bypass the Wizard chute and drop people into the top part of Tali. Would something like that be part of a potential long-term solution to move at least some of the skier traffic off the chute?


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## ShadyGrove (Aug 30, 2018)

chair13chin said:


> Years ago there was a version of the Magic trail map (pic pasted below) that included a “future trail: Black Magic” that looked like it was planned to bypass the Wizard chute and drop people into the top part of Tali. Would something like that be part of a potential long-term solution to move at least some of the skier traffic off the chute?
> 
> View attachment 23992



Great 1st post!   It's fun to look back at those old maps. Lower Wiz is listed as a green run (which is probably more accurate but doesn't really matter since you have to take a blue or black to get there). 

However, it takes a lot of snow to cover the snow making pipes that run along skier's right side of Wizard and I'm not sure that a double black trail would take much traffic off of the chute.


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## The Sneak (Aug 30, 2018)

Just dropping in to say Trick is really fun when bumped up, good for the ego before someone tackles Goniff or similar


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## slatham (Aug 31, 2018)

chair13chin said:


> Years ago there was a version of the Magic trail map (pic pasted below) that included a “future trail: Black Magic” that looked like it was planned to bypass the Wizard chute and drop people into the top part of Tali. Would something like that be part of a potential long-term solution to move at least some of the skier traffic off the chute?
> 
> View attachment 23992



That would be a great and very steep trail. Would really make the combo of that trail with Talisman or Sorcerer an unbelievable expert run. I am sure it would lessen the traffic on Wizard (when open) but I don't think that alone would eliminate the issue on the Chute.


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## ShadyGrove (Aug 31, 2018)

slatham said:


> That would be a great and very steep trail. Would really make the combo of that trail with Talisman or Sorcerer an unbelievable expert run. I am sure it would lessen the traffic on Wizard (when open) but I don't think that alone would eliminate the issue on the Chute.



Might even have a line in there that requires mandatory air.  Don't ask me how I know. ;-)


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## skithetrees (Sep 3, 2018)

slatham said:


> That would be a great and very steep trail. Would really make the combo of that trail with Talisman or Sorcerer an unbelievable expert run. I am sure it would lessen the traffic on Wizard (when open) but I don't think that alone would eliminate the issue on the Chute.



There are also a few ways to cut it such that it wouldn’t be all that steep. It’s a trail that I have thought about for a while and that I bet ultimately gets built.


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## Do Work (Sep 4, 2018)

slatham said:


> Talisman is typically groomed once they put a base down (last year it was "down the middle", previous years skiers left).
> 
> I would expect once the new Black Quad is in Wizard would be a focus of snowmaking and grooming in order to spread out the crowd. In that scenario the Chute becomes a serious issue without a bit of (but not too much!) widening, IMO. JM and DW are well aware if this issue, and indicated that there is a "chance" that the crew working on Trick will get over to Chute this off season.





Yes, Tali is a groomer and we hope to use it as a racing venue far more often.  Last year was absolutely brutal weather and equipment wise, so every time we blew it in it melted out completely.  Only when those huge dumps blew in were we able to keep it open, and even then it wasn't enough to groom- that's why it was all bumped up.  Normally that would not be the case.  

As for The Chute, yes I'd love to clean it up but as far as widening it that's almost impossible without dozens of truckloads of fill.  It's in an area that's nearly all ledge, and the original trail was blasted out with dynamite in the 60s which means that whole area is basically all trap stone.  It's a tough choke point because it is bad at managing water, and it is a huge choke point for almost all traffic going West.  It's the first part to go in a melt and what's underneath is not friendly to skis so we try to blow it in mega deep knowing that.  The uphill side below the crux is also all ledge with very little soil.  That said, we will do our best at making it the best it can be, and will continue to try to find ways to improve its ability to get people to Tali, Sorc, etc.  

I'd also love to connect upper Wiz to the top of Tali, but again that will take more time than we have right now.  As it is you will all be wowed bigtime when you see the projects we've taken on this summer.  LOTS of cleanup, particularly on our most heavily traveled areas and beginner trails.  We feel it's utterly necessary to do projects that are tangible to skiers and not just satisfy ourselves with (obviously very important) hidden components and buried infrastructure nobody will ever see.  Sunshine Corner got a huge cleanup, several key tree areas got a lot of love and basically every area below the green chair is being cleaned up as best we can.  

It's very important to keep the encroachment brush pushed back for snowmaking and grooming.  It also gives us a great opportunity to make the sides of the trails way more fun- usually we will push it back to reveal a nice shoulder, open up the trees and give people some fun routes to sneak into, hop off a mini ledge and get back out onto the trail super easy.  That kind of thing really helps kids and beginners get comfortable with turning around a tree without the pressure of being "in the trees".  Trick has a lot more room to mach, and a few SWEET shoulder booters now as well.

Basically we are seeing our first real glimpse of us letting our skier sides shine and create more opportunities for fun.  One day we will be able to do a lot more of that but right now in our business plan it's almost all infrastructure work and fixing component issues.  Everything we do we consider all aspects of usage, and we NEVEr forget that we don't want to turn this place into Stratton- but we've got a ton of catch up to do in terms of water bars, encroachment growth and stony, eroded areas that don't hold snow well enough.  The place has been left to the weather for a looooong time and good ground management leads to good snow and runoff management- it will only help us offer a more reliable product in the long run.

I hope everybody is getting excited, I cannot wait to hit all these new areas and see how they look with a white blanket!


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## rebel1916 (Sep 5, 2018)

Do Work said:


> We feel it's utterly necessary to do projects that are tangible to skiers and not just satisfy ourselves with (obviously very important) hidden components and buried infrastructure nobody will ever see.



I think your mountain is super sweet, and really admire all that you have put into it.  I know the setbacks must be disheartening (and expensive) but my family will continue to make the drive from NY at least a couple of times a year.


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## Killingtime (Sep 5, 2018)

It's one of the few places in the East I haven't skied but I'm really looking forward to stopping in this year.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 5, 2018)

It's one of two NE places I've skied more than once. I keep coming back because it just feels right.

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## WoodCore (Sep 8, 2018)

Pass holder for the first time this winter, perfect place to teach my son.......


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 8, 2018)

WoodCore said:


> Pass holder for the first time this winter, perfect place to teach my son.......
> 
> View attachment 24006



[emoji106]


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## slatham (Sep 9, 2018)

Solo glade clearing expedition today. Do Work was kind enough to give me a ride up to the entry point of my mission. Great stuff going on. Wizard and lower Talisman had seen some side clearing. DW says the crew was up on MC Through The Woods, Wizard Chute and  Slide of Hans doing some grading and side clearing. And of course we’ve seen pics of Trick and Sunshine Corner. 

Yellow Cat is out waiting for tracks.






Green’s lower bull wheel ready to go in.






Cable strung and splicing scheduled for this week.






Black Line Tavern looks great; looked like some carpentry work going on in the rental area; people were playing doc golf. And it felt like fall!


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 10, 2018)

WoodCore said:


> Pass holder for the first time this winter,* perfect place to teach my son.......*



No doubt about that; places like Magic, Plattekill, Smuggler's Notch, etc..... cant be beat for teaching kids to ski.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 11, 2018)

Seems to me you all are making the moves to make Magic my go-to destination when I want to avoid long trips.

If you can steal a few days a season (for me) from Mt Snow and Killington, I'll be pretty glad. Trail counts are important (you know this). I like the blacks and doubles and woods to be open -- basically my determining factor in making last minute decisions (as they all are). How much snow they have on them I could care less (rocks are for skiing around or jumping over).

Let's hope we have another winter of snow and Nor-Easters. Looks like a good chance!


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 12, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Seems to me you all are making the moves to make Magic my go-to destination when I want to avoid long trips.
> 
> If you can steal a few days a season (for me) from Mt Snow and Killington, I'll be pretty glad. *Trail counts are important (you know this). I like the blacks and doubles and woods to be open -- basically my determining factor in making last minute decisions (as they all are). *How much snow they have on them I could care less (rocks are for skiing around or jumping over).
> 
> Let's hope we have another winter of snow and Nor-Easters. Looks like a good chance!



Added emphasis to note that trail count is not as important as the marking department at many large resorts would have you believe.  Having 50 'named' trails that are all groomed that same way, have similar pitch, and without character makes no difference.  Particularly if they are packed with other skiers.   

Having 10 top to bottom trails that are different from other another without many other skiers on them would be much more preferable in my opinion. 

Of course it's awesome when the entire mountain is open and you can ski everywhere (including OOB), but for that lower tide time of every winter, Magic can really be where it's at. I'm not talking about huge brown spots like late Feb. 2017, but look at picks of skiing several days after any snow storm (not just March) and you will see folks skiing natural snow that hasn't been pummeled into a marble floor. 

It's about quality, not quantity.


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## sull1102 (Sep 12, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> Added emphasis to note that trail count is not as important as the marking department at many large resorts would have you believe.  Having 50 'named' trails that are all groomed that same way, have similar pitch, and without character makes no difference.  Particularly if they are packed with other skiers.
> 
> Having 10 top to bottom trails that are different from other another without many other skiers on them would be much more preferable in my opinion.
> 
> ...



To you and I sure, but to the skiing public dead wrong. There is a reason every single resort in the entire industry, hell even Blue Hills, has split trails up to increase trail counts. There is a MASSIVE difference for marketing to say you have 4 runs open (lets say three genuine top to bottom at a 1800' vert mountain) or 16 "runs" that are just Upper, Middle, Lower, plus a little connector run here and there.


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## slatham (Sep 12, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> To you and I sure, but to the skiing public dead wrong. There is a reason every single resort in the entire industry, hell even Blue Hills, has split trails up to increase trail counts. There is a MASSIVE difference for marketing to say you have 4 runs open (lets say three genuine top to bottom at a 1800' vert mountain) or 16 "runs" that are just Upper, Middle, Lower, plus a little connector run here and there.



Agreed but luckily Magic just needs a few more of "you and I" and not the broader "skiing public". What's the old saying, an educated consumer is our best customer? Let the morons ski elsewhere.


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## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> To you and I sure, but to the skiing public dead wrong. There is a reason every single resort in the entire industry, hell even Blue Hills, has split trails up to increase trail counts. There is a MASSIVE difference for marketing to say you have 4 runs open (lets say three genuine top to bottom at a 1800' vert mountain) or 16 "runs" that are just Upper, Middle, Lower, plus a little connector run here and there.


One reason beyond expanding trail count having lower, middle, upper is when part of the trails are closed. I agree with this part of it if there are actual other trail crossing them and the can close parts of them . this may be just an added bonus not really part of anyone's plans.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 12, 2018)

I like having clearly defined trail segments, so I can know by reading the report what's open. If I take Wizard and can't ski it the whole way down, but instead have to take Talisman...

That said, for unusual circumstances a note on the report is fine -once you have a hill with more than a handful of top to bottom routes, labeling every option is practically impossible. But if it's a regular thing to have half a trail opoen, maybe that should get split.

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## slatham (Sep 13, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> I like having clearly defined trail segments, so I can know by reading the report what's open. If I take Wizard and can't ski it the whole way down, but instead have to take Talisman...
> 
> That said, for unusual circumstances a note on the report is fine -once you have a hill with more than a handful of top to bottom routes, labeling every option is practically impossible. But if it's a regular thing to have half a trail opoen, maybe that should get split.
> 
> Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk



So I see the point that if the report says Upper Wizard and Lower Wizard are open, but they are just ski in/out of Talisman, this would be a problem. I must say I do not recall this being the case on the snow reports, at least not without a clear note that Wizard is open for the sole purpose of servicing Talisman. Alternate solutions would be to only claim Talisman is open, which to all but the morons means Wizard is open into/out of it. Or you "manufacture" another run by naming a "Middle Wizard". While that would technically pass the smell test, I don't think its the Magic style, IMHO.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 13, 2018)

Talisman is the best example I could think of since we all know those trails. I could bring up better examples from other states but then nobody else knows what I'm talking about, plus Talisman does have this occasionally.

I don't think Wizard needs to be split unless the plan is not to open 'middle wizard' for a few weeks after Talisman, which I don't think it is.

Besides, upper/middle/lower leaves creativity on the table. Wizard Hat, Wizard Robe, Wizard's Ring works just as well.

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## bdfreetuna (Sep 13, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> Added emphasis to note that trail count is not as important as the marking department at many large resorts would have you believe.  Having 50 'named' trails that are all groomed that same way, have similar pitch, and without character makes no difference.
> 
> It's about quality, not quantity.



Well maybe for you and some others but I don't like repeating runs in a day and almost never do unless I have to. So I won't argue with the marketing departments on that one. Open trail counts are decision makers for me especially earlier in the season when it's more of an issue.


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## tumbler (Sep 13, 2018)

slatham said:


> Agreed but luckily Magic just needs a few more of "you and I" and not the broader "skiing public". What's the old saying, an educated consumer is our best customer? *Let the morons ski elsewhere*.



And that attitude is what sinks companies.  You should want anyone and everyone to ski there so they make MONEY so they can pay off their debt and hopefully keep doing capital improvements.


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 13, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Well maybe for you and some others but *I don't like repeating runs in a day and almost never do unless I have to. *So I won't argue with the marketing departments on that one. Open trail counts are decision makers for me especially earlier in the season when it's more of an issue.



Again emphasis added - this is interesting to me.  I agree that during time of limited terrain this may be an issue.  However, most runs (that aren't groomed into a flat, homogeneous boulevard) have multiple lines down through them.  I can ski Sorcerer multiple times without ever skiing over the same mogul, roller, or pitch more than once.  If I weave in and out of the woods along the edge, I can add another lap or two without being bored. 

I think that is a main difference between a place like Mt. Snow and Magic.  You can get dropped on many trails at Mt. Snow and not really know which you are on as so many of them ski exactly the same as the others.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 13, 2018)

Well Magic is the most interesting terrain in Southern Vermont so I'm not saying it's about purely looking at the trail counts.

The thing is there is often a month or so when Killington and Mount Snow are in expansion mode and maybe Magic is struggling to even open at all.

I don't think we disagree, maybe I worded my original comment to appear single faceted. Magic is one of few places that could be down on trail count but still be a compelling option. The whole trail count issue is definitely relative to each resort, certainly not a blind "oh look this # is higher than this #"


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## raisingarizona (Sep 13, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> Talisman is the best example I could think of since we all know those trails. I could bring up better examples from other states but then nobody else knows what I'm talking about, plus Talisman does have this occasionally.
> 
> I don't think Wizard needs to be split unless the plan is not to open 'middle wizard' for a few weeks after Talisman, which I don't think it is.
> 
> ...



Don't forget Wizard sleeves


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## Nick (Sep 13, 2018)

I learned to ski at magic!


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## slatham (Sep 13, 2018)

tumbler said:


> And that attitude is what sinks companies.  You should want anyone and everyone to ski there so they make MONEY so they can pay off their debt and hopefully keep doing capital improvements.



The type of skier growth Magic needs, and can handle, is not in the grand scheme of things that large, especially in the context of the general "skiing" public and the 400-500K skier visits of the mega resorts. A fraction of that as new skiers at Magic will assure its future (along with proper management). The vibe at Magic is to welcome anyone, but not to attract everyone. IMHO.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 14, 2018)

slatham said:


> The vibe at Magic is to welcome anyone, but not to attract everyone. IMHO.



This is a very interesting take and one that definitely seems to work for a place like magic!


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## MMP (Sep 14, 2018)

It’s all about flag count


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## sull1102 (Sep 14, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> I think that is a main difference between a place like Mt. Snow and Magic.  You can get dropped on many trails at Mt. Snow and not really know which you are on as so many of them ski exactly the same as the others.



Not to derail the thread but as a Snow local for three years I can confidently say that at least in my opinion that's definitely not true. Not as much diversity as Magic, but it's not so bland that you can't tell where you are with a quick glance around.

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## Smellytele (Sep 14, 2018)

Nick said:


> I learned to ski at magic! 



Who's this Nick Guy?


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## Newpylong (Sep 14, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Not to derail the thread but as a Snow local for three years I can confidently say that at least in my opinion that's definitely not true. Not as much diversity as Magic, but it's not so bland that you can't tell where you are with a quick glance around.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



I was going to say, most runs at Snow are fairly tame but at least have some uniqueness. There are a couple other S. VT "groomer" mountains that have side by side runs that are not easily distinguished.


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## NYDB (Sep 14, 2018)

I am sure most of you got the email, but $4500 to rent mountain for a day if a group can get together the $$ before 10/15.   Can we get 18 people to pony up at $250 a head?  each person can bring 5 people?  2/27/19?


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 14, 2018)

Are you talking about Plattekill or is Magic copying them and doing mountain rental now?


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 14, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Are you talking about Plattekill or is Magic copying them and doing mountain rental now?



I'm not sure who started it but Magic has had this policy in place for several years.  Pico is also available to rent on their off days as well.


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## Newpylong (Sep 14, 2018)

Many mountains that are closed or have limited mid week hours are available to rent. Some just advertise it better. So it's nothing new.


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## Scruffy (Sep 14, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> I'm not sure who started it but Magic has had this policy in place for several years.  Pico is also available to rent on their off days as well.



 Makes perfect financial sense for these small mountains to offer their place up for private parties on their closed days, assuming they can get the staff they need on short notice. The reason they close some midweek days was due to lack of customers, so guarantee them some customers and they'll be glad to open for ya. Imagine booking them and then getting a powder day.


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## Smellytele (Sep 15, 2018)

Scruffy said:


> Makes perfect financial sense for these small mountains to offer their place up for private parties on their closed days, assuming they can get the staff they need on short notice. The reason they close some midweek days was due to lack of customers, so guarantee them some customers and they'll be glad to open for ya. Imagine booking them and then getting a powder day.



If it is a powder day The question is then will they open for others that day as is their policy on powder days?


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## NYDB (Sep 15, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> If it is a powder day The question is then will they open for others that day as is their policy on powder days?



I think that is a no based on last winter.  I believe a manchester business (RK miles?) scored a powder day.  Although I am not positive about it if it qualified as an official powder day or not.  not sure if they prohibited uphill travel or not.


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## slatham (Sep 15, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> I think that is a no based on last winter.  I believe a manchester business (RK miles?) scored a powder day.  Although I am not positive about it if it qualified as an official powder day or not.  not sure if they prohibited uphill travel or not.



That is what happened last year IIRC, and yes RK Miles. And if I rented the mountain and lucked out with a powder day I wound not expect them to open to the  public. The good thing is it is highly unlikely that a private rental results in a big enough crowd to ski off the entire mountain. So the day after would offer plenty of powder.


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## sull1102 (Sep 15, 2018)

I mean if I rent the place and pay that much cash it means good or bad weather wise. Just like I'm sure a group cannot cancel suddenly because of weather it wouldnt be fair for them to take away your upside. Also though, you create really great lasting memories for everyone in that group because of how good it would be.


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## Smellytele (Sep 16, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I mean if I rent the place and pay that much cash it means good or bad weather wise. Just like I'm sure a group cannot cancel suddenly because of weather it wouldnt be fair for them to take away your upside. Also though, you create really great lasting memories for everyone in that group because of how good it would be.



As a day tripper I guess you need to call ahead on powder days that have 6" or more to make sure it isn't rented out for the day. Is this the same as season passholders as well?


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## IceEidolon (Sep 16, 2018)

I'd say call ahead on powder days anyway, since a microclimate might have taken a marginally 6" day below the threshold locally or they may not be able to open enough terrain (thin cover under the powder) to open.

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## ShadyGrove (Sep 16, 2018)

Magic has been really good about posting on social media about powder days in advance of most storms.

The RK Miles day last season was during a storm so it's unlikely that Magic would have opened that day anyway.  I can attest that the next day was killer and the mountain was most certainly not skied off. 

I'd be curious how many extra powder days they have opened for  (Mon-Weds) over the last few years.  I doubt it's more than a 2-3 per year.


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## ss20 (Sep 16, 2018)

I just don't understand how on the Throwback Thursday's if it's a powder day they charge full price.  So if it snow's 4" (I've been there when it has on Thursdays) you pay $29 or whatever...but if it had snowed 7" they charge the full rate of $70+...for the same cafeteria, same lifts, same overhead had it been a non-powder day.


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## slatham (Sep 16, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I just don't understand how on the Throwback Thursday's if it's a powder day they charge full price.  So if it snow's 4" (I've been there when it has on Thursdays) you pay $29 or whatever...but if it had snowed 7" they charge the full rate of $70+...for the same cafeteria, same lifts, same overhead had it been a non-powder day.



If it's Thursday and it snows 7" it's not "Throwback Thursday" it's a "Powder Day". Both are made up promotion days based on certain criteria. This is a well a known documented policy. They also give people the heads up in advance if they expect the Thursday to qualify as a Powder Day. Personally I'd be happy to fork over the extra money for a mid week Powder day at Magic.

By the way, was April 7th a great surprise April Powder day or what?


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## IceEidolon (Sep 16, 2018)

It's supply and demand. Days with high skier demand (and therefore higher service levels, including potentially more lifts and grooming/trackpacking on some green trails) cost more. 

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## mister moose (Sep 16, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I just don't understand how on the Throwback Thursday's if it's a powder day they charge full price.  So if it snow's 4" (I've been there when it has on Thursdays) you pay $29 or whatever...but if it had snowed 7" they charge the full rate of $70+...for the same cafeteria, same lifts, same overhead had it been a non-powder day.



That sure was a faster than expected trip from

_"Magic is a great place with great terrain and a great vibe that has been struggling to stay afloat so much that volunteers do trail work and it needs all of us to help pitch in, spread the word,  and lend a hand anyway we can"_

to

_"How dare they try to make a few extra bucks offa me, they're ripping me off!!!"_


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## ss20 (Sep 16, 2018)

mister moose said:


> That sure was a faster than expected trip from
> 
> _"Magic is a great place with great terrain and a great vibe that has been struggling to stay afloat so much that volunteers do trail work and it needs all of us to help pitch in, spread the word,  and lend a hand anyway we can"_
> 
> ...



lol...I like Magic but that policy irks me completely.  

Before anyone says "Well if you don't like the policy don't ski there on a Thursday powder day!!" to which I respond..."ok".


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## chuckstah (Sep 16, 2018)

ss20 said:


> lol...I like Magic but that policy irks me completely.
> 
> Before anyone says "Well if you don't like the policy don't ski there on a Thursday powder day!!" to which I respond..."ok".


Ya,. That policy irks me also. Last season I went to buy a Thursday ticket, almost a week ahead, and it was billed as a power day. $29 I'll pay from time to time away from the home hill.  $70 ish, not so much. And it did end up a power day. I need to follow Magic's weather guru. Hope I make it back this year. I'll be sure to buy my Thursday ticket 8 days out next time. 

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## ShadyGrove (Sep 17, 2018)

slatham said:


> Both are made up promotion days...



I think this is exactly the point.


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## Do Work (Sep 17, 2018)

Magic HAS to charge top dollar for powder days, half the people that come to Magic ONLY come on such days to shred.  Infuriating as that trend may be, the fairweather frugal need to either get all the way on board with a season pass or just buy some skins, we've got bills to pay haha


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## Do Work (Sep 17, 2018)

ss20 said:


> lol...I like Magic but that policy irks me completely.
> 
> Before anyone says "Well if you don't like the policy don't ski there on a Thursday powder day!!" to which I respond..."ok".




Anybody who cost themselves a day of skiing pow at Magic for the $30-something has really done themselves a disservice.  Even at full price it's still the best deal going on a pow day- more fresh to ski, fewer people to share it with and you're supporting a very important local entity just by showing up.  I understand the chapped cheeks when you're expecting a deal AND a killer day but we really do have to make the fairweather fans pay.  Heck, get a 4-pack next time and use one of those!  On your next visit, come find me and I'll make sure you get your money's worth if you're concerned, which I totally understand!  Magic has many secrets, and once you know them it is a bargain top to bottom- even at full price.


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## Do Work (Sep 17, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I just don't understand how on the Throwback Thursday's if it's a powder day they charge full price.  So if it snow's 4" (I've been there when it has on Thursdays) you pay $29 or whatever...but if it had snowed 7" they charge the full rate of $70+...for the same cafeteria, same lifts, same overhead had it been a non-powder day.




See weekend rates vs. weekday deals.  Same thing.  You've got to make money where you can!  It's still a heck of a lot cheaper than getting a day ticket at some steamrolled resort like Okemo or Stratt where you barely even see fresh pow, it's just fluffy diamond baby bumps everywhere by 10.  

Still though, many deals exist on our website.  From 4 packs to whiteout passes to season pass bundles, there's a bunch of ways if you start figuring it out more than a few days before the snow hits.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

Could do an extra $5 per inch over 5 inches of fresh 

4 pack for $189 huh. Is that going to stay available at that price? Could be an option for this winter.


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## makimono (Sep 17, 2018)

I think the wording of the Throwback Thursday is what maybe puts some people off. It's a sort of negative incentive. The Throwback Thursday pricing, instead of being looked at as a discounted price, gets viewed as the normal Thursday price, that makes the powder day pricing look like an extra "unfair" surcharge. If it was worded more that the full price was the normal price and that  any Thursday that _didn't get 6"+_ the night before they would offer a special Throwback Thursday Discounted price, maybe that would be viewed differently?

I'm not saying that should be done, I don't think it matters, I don't really care, it's all the same thing to me. I'll be on my 3rd year with a Throwback Card anyways which I think is the hidden gem of Magic deals.


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

makimono said:


> I'll be on my 3rd year with a Throwback Card anyways which I think is the hidden gem of Magic deals.



Agreed.  And my understanding (never put to the test) is that if you have the card on a Powder Thursday you would get the $29 price that is not available to walk ups.  Correct?


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

I'm going to rely heavily on *Ride and Ski New England Card* again this year. Works great for my needs with 50% many Vermont ski areas (Killington, Pico, Jay, Sugarbush, Burke and Bolton have the best discounts).

Magic was on there last year for $10 any full price ticket. Better than nothing I guess but would be nice to see Magic get in on that 50% off action (or do like Bolton does @ $39 with the card). Most of the other resorts are 25% off Saturday and 50% weekdays/Sundays. At least in Vermont.

At least for me that would = definitely a few more visits per season

Not sure if I mentioned this already.... but I was just checking the Ride and Ski card site and they said in the process of negotiating 2018/2019 deals


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## makimono (Sep 17, 2018)

urungus said:


> Agreed.  And my understanding (never put to the test) is that if you have the card on a Powder Thursday you would get the $29 price that is not available to walk ups.  Correct?



Yup! I put it to the test 3 times last year


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

Wait, let me get this straight, Magic charges MORE on a powder day than a day with no new snow? Magic either needs to get its shit together and price correctly, or once this whole lovey dovey things tapers off, which it inevitably will, they are going to get hosed ..... again. 

That shit would never fly out here. Jackson is pricey, but its not based on random weather events. 

It is also illegal in some states, like NH, but apparently not VT.


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## skithetrees (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Wait, let me get this straight, Magic charges MORE on a powder day than a day with no new snow? Magic either needs to get its shit together and price correctly, or once this whole lovey dovey things tapers off, which it inevitably will, they are going to get hosed ..... again.
> 
> That shit would never fly out here. Jackson is pricey, but its not based on random weather events.
> 
> It is also illegal in some states, like NH, but apparently not VT.



One day a week. Lol. One day. They aren’t open Monday-Wednesday unless it is a powder day. If it is, they charge the regular full rate. Moreover, if you buy in advance or any of the packages mentioned here, it doesn’t effect you. Your options are closed mountain or the cheapest full price ticket in Vermont on a mountain with a fraction the traffic and 6+” of snow. Doesn’t seem that hard. Thursday is going unique because they run crazy deals to get, frankly, a small number of people on the hill. Yes, they charge full price in accordance with their weekday powder policy. As do work said, half the people there on a powder day never ski the mountain on a non-powder day. I don’t feel so bad for them and they obviously aren’t that unhappy given the smiles and whooping coming from the trees. Goes to show that no matter what you do someone will complain. The cons I suppose of no longer being Vermont’s best kept secret. That said, need the place to survive so I will take it.


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

It doesn't matter, that is the literal definition of price gouging. If any other place tried to do this in your day to day life you would be pissed.


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## Newpylong (Sep 17, 2018)

That is not price gouging by any definition.

Price gouging would be jacking the price up on a Saturday morning to $150 because of epic snow conditions that exist nowhere else. Even then not really because skiing is not a necessary service, good or commodity.

Deciding to open and charge normal rate on an unscheduled day is in no shape or form gouging.


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## jaytrem (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> It doesn't matter, that is the literal definition of price gouging.



Subjective at best...



The practice of raising prices on certain types of goods and services to an unfair level, especially during a state of emergency.


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

I have no problem whatsoever with the policy ... It shouldn’t be any big surprise, the policy is widely posted in advance and if you are unhappy with the undiscounted walk up price of $69 you can always head 10 miles down the road to Stratton to pay $115 for an inferior experience.


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

Are you complainers also outraged that the weekday discount lift ticket rate at most resorts is not valid on holidays?  How is “Thursday rate does not include powder days” any different than “weekday rate does not include holidays” ?


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Wait, let me get this straight, Magic charges MORE on a powder day than a day with no new snow? Magic either needs to get its shit together and price correctly, or once this whole lovey dovey things tapers off, which it inevitably will, they are going to get hosed ..... again.
> 
> That shit would never fly out here. Jackson is pricey, but its not based on random weather events.
> 
> It is also illegal in some states, like NH, but apparently not VT.



A random Thursday in January at Jackson is $133 (if you pre-buy, otherwise it's $147).  Random Thursday at Magic is $29, unless it qualifies as a powder day - then it's $74.

Now I'm not comparing the skiing (or the experience) at Magic to Jackson but come on, I don't know that the management is relying solely on 'this whole lovey dovey thing'.


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> That is not price gouging by any definition.
> 
> Price gouging would be jacking the price up on a Saturday morning to $150 because of epic snow conditions that exist nowhere else. Even then not really because skiing is not a necessary service, good or commodity.
> 
> Deciding to open and charge normal rate on an unscheduled day is in no shape or form gouging.



Its not the unscheduled days that are the problem (well they are in the sense that any successful ski area doesn't close down half the week, but that is a separate debate), it is that they have a regular Thursday rate and a rate for when the demand is higher, that is completely random based on weather. 

That is straight up price gouging. Don't confuse VT having a specific law that covers fuel during states of emergency as if that definition applies to everything. I'm also saying it is not illegal in VT, just pretty shitty of them. Name one other ski resort that could do that? It doesn't exist. 

This would however be illegal in NH, for any business, regardless of the situation or product. You advertise a price, you honor that price. Doesn't matter if you regret doing so after the fact. Got a screaming deal on a new truck once that way.


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 17, 2018)

urungus said:


> Are you complainers also outraged that the weekday discount lift ticket rate at most resorts is not valid on holidays?  How is “Thursday rate does not include powder days” any different than “weekday rate does not include holidays” ?



A closer corollary is that the Thursday during a holiday week at almost any resort is not the 'weekday' rate, but the 'holiday' rate.  No one seems to have an issue then.


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

ShadyGrove said:


> A closer corollary is that the Thursday during a holiday week at almost any resort is not the 'weekday' rate, but the 'holiday' rate.  No one seems to have an issue then.



Exactly.


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

Except the holiday rate is a given, before they even open for the season. 

Plan a trip to magic and it snows, your family trip just got 200 bucks more expensive, completely unplanned and you wouldn't know until what, two hours at best before they open? 

Lots of other folks would be getting in a car that morning. I wouldn't be thrilled to show up and the price just jumped over 100%.

Magic isn't good enough to pull this indefinitely. Hence why they have closed how many times?


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## mbedle (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Its not the unscheduled days that are the problem (well they are in the sense that any successful ski area doesn't close down half the week, but that is a separate debate), it is that they have a regular Thursday rate and a rate for when the demand is higher, that is completely random based on weather.
> 
> That is straight up price gouging. Don't confuse VT having a specific law that covers fuel during states of emergency as if that definition applies to everything. I'm also saying it is not illegal in VT, just pretty shitty of them. Name one other ski resort that could do that? It doesn't exist.
> 
> This would however be illegal in NH, for any business, regardless of the situation or product. You advertise a price, you honor that price. Doesn't matter if you regret doing so after the fact. Got a screaming deal on a new truck once that way.



When did NH enact a price gouging law? And besides the states with price gouging laws 99 percent of them only apply during a SOE or disaster so I doubt that it would even apply to Magic's pricing schedule.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Magic isn't good enough to pull this indefinitely. Hence why they have closed how many times?



You're busy skiing Jackson and "Magic isn't good enough" so why do you care if they charge full price on powder days? Somehow your advice doesn't come across as purely altruistic.

I say if we ban charging regular price on powder days (instead of a discounted rate) we ought to ban $199 College Kid season passes and $29 Ladies Days first. I have yet to see any resort offer a discount for being a mid-30s uneducated male, very sad.


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> You're busy skiing Jackson and "Magic isn't good enough" so why do you care if they charge full price on powder days? Somehow your advice doesn't come across as purely altruistic.
> 
> I say if we ban charging regular price on powder days (instead of a discounted rate) we ought to ban $199 College Kid season passes and $29 Ladies Days first. I have yet to see any resort offer a discount for being a mid-30s uneducated male, very sad.



What? I don't work in the industry or have any skin in the game at all. I'm just continually amazed with how much shit Magic gets away with because you think they are cool. NO other established resort could pull this without getting eviscerated on social media, in reviews, and public opinion. Name one other resort that could? 

But hey, keep on keeping on, I'm not one to tell someone how to spend their money.


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Except the holiday rate is a given, before they even open for the season.
> 
> Plan a trip to magic and it snows, your family trip just got 200 bucks more expensive, completely unplanned and you wouldn't know until what, two hours at best before they open?



Who plans a big family trip and doesn’t get their lift tickets in advance?

And for the folks getting in the car that morning, they would know before they hit the road whether it was a Powder day not.


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

urungus said:


> Who plans a big family trip and doesn’t get their lift tickets in advance?
> 
> And for the folks getting in the car that morning, they would know before they hit the road whether it was a Powder day not.



The vast majority of skiers that aren't passholders don't prepay. Don't confuse a ski message board for the everyday populace.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

Everyday populace did vote Magic #1 in the East last year though. I'm not sure if skier buzz and social media is an area they are failing in.

That said you may be right in the long run I would imagine the policy will bug enough people they'll find a way to at least re-word the whole thing, if not do away completely. I would also imagine their long term plan is to be open every day of the week so Thursdays would be a little less special.


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## AdironRider (Sep 17, 2018)

Hah, yeah and Holiday Valley is always in the top 5 also. I don't think Magic is failing in social media, they just get away with it for some reason. That was my point. 

No doubt the Magic faithful support the place, which is good. This is the owners taking advantage of that fact to make more money, which is bad. 

The smarter play would be just raise midweek pricing 5 bucks across the board and no one blinks an eye.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

I think Magic walk up rate is $74 this coming year weekdays and weekends. Going off memory last year it was $59 weekday and $69 weekend (correct me if I'm wrong).

Doesn't make complete sense to me but they have enough pass options and 4-packs etc so nobody need pay full price even on pow days. There are also Ski Vermont passes and hopefully good deals on the *Ride and Ski New England Card* this year


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> The vast majority of skiers that aren't passholders don't prepay. Don't confuse a ski message board for the everyday populace.



Except we are talking about people planning a big family trip ... do you really have evidence that “the vast majority” of such people do not buy their lift tickets in advance?  Do such people also buy their plane tickets at the counter at the airport?

I just don’t think there is a large group of people out there, who are clued in enough to both want to go to Magic, and to know about the discounted Thursday rate, but at the same time are clueless about the Powder Day exclusion and will be angry when they show up one one of those rare days.


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## slatham (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Except the holiday rate is a given, before they even open for the season.
> 
> Plan a trip to magic and it snows, your family trip just got 200 bucks more expensive, completely unplanned and you wouldn't know until what, two hours at best before they open?
> 
> ...




As of this very moment the Magic website states the rates for 2018/19: Daily Adult Tickets are $74.

The web site has a separate "Specials Section" that states that Specials Pricing is not applicable on holiday's and Throwback Thursday pricing is not applicable on Powder Days of 6" or more. Looked at literally, the rate is $74, but the mountain may offer a special discount by offering a Throwback Thursday, and they announce well in advance whether that special pricing will be in place. 

Its not $29, and they may jack it up. Its $74, and they offer a special.

They also offer you the option to buy online and save. Buy a ticket in advance online at $29 and you are set. Full stop.

And don't confuse this management team and investor group with any of the prior owners, it just shows you don't know much about the place.


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## jaytrem (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> The vast majority of skiers that aren't passholders don't prepay. Don't confuse a ski message board for the everyday populace.



Not so sure of that any more.  Seems like when ever I'm in line to get a lift ticket, most people, including myself, already purchased from liftopia or direct from the resort.  Of course ski/stay packages are prepaid.  And more people than ever are passholders of some type, Vail sold like a gazillion Epic passes last year.  I'd love to know the % of skiers days that are prepaid these days.  Gotta think it's a huge increase from 5 years ago.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

slatham said:


> Its not $29, and they may jack it up. Its $74, and they offer a special.



Right, important distinction. Although some ppl will still be caught off guard and pay full price unexpectedly, it's not gouging or even slightly unethical.



slatham said:


> They also offer you the option to buy online and save. Buy a ticket in advance online at $29 and you are set. Full stop.



Good to remember!


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## cdskier (Sep 17, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I have yet to see any resort offer a discount for being a mid-30s uneducated male, very sad.



There are resorts with passes out there for that age range. Sugarbush has one. Stowe had one pre-Vail for about a year or two. I haven't looked, but there could be others.



AdironRider said:


> The vast majority of skiers that aren't passholders don't prepay. Don't confuse a ski message board for the everyday populace.



I think that is absolutely untrue at least in the Northeast. I've been pre-paying whenever I planned a trip since long before I discovered any ski message boards. And that was years ago. Now the paradigm has shifted even further away from people paying walk up rates to instead people that are pre-paying in some way, shape or form.


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## urungus (Sep 17, 2018)

Switching gears ... hoping to tackle “Black Line” for the first time this year, how much harder is it than Heart of Magician or Talisman or Sorcerer?  Last year I took Broomstick all the way over to the top of “Black Line” (before taking the unmarked connector back to HOM) and “Black Line” didn’t look exceptionally harder ... I think I heard there are a couple short cliffs near the end, but they can be skirted around to skier’s left?  Wish I had been paying attention on the couple times I rode the Black Chair.


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## prsboogie (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Hah, yeah and Holiday Valley is always in the top 5 also. I don't think Magic is failing in social media, they just get away with it for some reason. That was my point.
> 
> No doubt the Magic faithful support the place, which is good. This is the owners taking advantage of that fact to make more money, which is bad.
> 
> The smarter play would be just raise midweek pricing 5 bucks across the board and no one blinks an eye.


Couple things, if you don't like the pricing policy don't ski there.
Why are you twisted up about a place that offers deep discounts on a Thursday for those who are willing to head out in any condition but charge regular ticketing prices when every jack-off in the world wants to be the gnar fanboi skiing some of the best terrain in the East. And finally there is a major difference between a car dealer falsely advertising a vehicle for a specific price and then not having any available at said advertised price. 

I've only skied Magic twice (which i need to remady this year) and both time I paid straight up window pricing, 29 and 70 with absolutely no regrets. Ski there don't ski there who really cares, but no one really gives a shit.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Do Work (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> What? I don't work in the industry or have any skin in the game at all. I'm just continually amazed with how much shit Magic gets away with because you think they are cool. NO other established resort could pull this without getting eviscerated on social media, in reviews, and public opinion. Name one other resort that could?
> 
> But hey, keep on keeping on, I'm not one to tell someone how to spend their money.





Ahahahaha this guy is losing it.  Waaaaah I could sue in NH hahahahaha 

I had no idea we were so cool!!  Hahahaha this is awesome, I needed a laugh.  Thanks, guy.  You’re the real MVP today.


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## Do Work (Sep 17, 2018)

urungus said:


> Switching gears ... hoping to tackle “Black Line” for the first time this year, how much harder is it than Heart of Magician or Talisman or Sorcerer?  Last year I took Broomstick all the way over to the top of “Black Line” (before taking the unmarked connector back to HOM) and “Black Line” didn’t look exceptionally harder ... I think I heard there are a couple short cliffs near the end, but they can be skirted around to skier’s left?  Wish I had been paying attention on the couple times I rode the Black Chair.



You’ll be totally fine, the ledges are the only sketchy part.  Far skiers’ left is a nice point-and-shoot (just send it, don’t try to turn) and the middle/right is all choose-your-own-adventure steep face, usually bumped up and sometimes a few rocks mixed in for fun.  Once you do it once you’ll go back for more!


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 17, 2018)

Goniff Glade consistently has the best bumps on the hill and nice steep pitch


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## LostCosmonaut (Sep 17, 2018)

In my experience Black Line was less difficult then Red Line.


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 17, 2018)

Hey, Matt, I hear there’s even a throwback card for $99-$149 (depending on how quickly you buy it starting on October 1) that gets you $29 any day you come, whether powder day, regular killer day or holiday. So, even though we need to make a little money to survive in a cost intensive business, these ultra finicky frugal guys can still do pretty damn well versus, say, just about every other ski area around us! 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## NYDB (Sep 17, 2018)

Hey, would it be beneficial to bring any tools, etc. To volunteer day this weekend?  Or do you have all that covered?

Sent from my SM-G960U using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 17, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> Hey, would it be beneficial to bring any tools, etc. To volunteer day this weekend?  Or do you have all that covered?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using AlpineZone mobile app



Yes, ok to bring your own small hand tools for cutting branches or clearing brush. No chain saws. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ss20 (Sep 17, 2018)

Holy shit I caused 30+ posts on the Magic thread in one day in the middle of September...guess we're getting desperate... :-o


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## sull1102 (Sep 17, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> What? I don't work in the industry or have any skin in the game at all. I'm just continually amazed with how much shit Magic gets away with because you think they are cool. NO other established resort could pull this without getting eviscerated on social media, in reviews, and public opinion. Name one other resort that could?
> 
> But hey, keep on keeping on, I'm not one to tell someone how to spend their money.


I'll stick my neck out there a bit and say that I agree with the idea of what you are saying. For now Magic is still small enough to get away with stuff like this. Their customer base is mostly made up of die hard skiers that live and breath Magic and Vermonters. For them the place can do no wrong and they are eager to defend the place to the absolute max so there's always going to be this very fast snapping back at people who disagree with something going on. 

Just think those working at the mountain might want to remember when they get a little snarky on here that you are taking that attitude with a potential customer and his/her family. You wouldn't want to Do a lot of Work and then take an attitude with people that might have $$ for you this season and turning them away because of a silly post on a silly forum. Not a big deal of course, just saying...

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Do Work (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I'll stick my neck out there a bit and say that I agree with the idea of what you are saying. For now Magic is still small enough to get away with stuff like this. Their customer base is mostly made up of die hard skiers that live and breath Magic and Vermonters. For them the place can do no wrong and they are eager to defend the place to the absolute max so there's always going to be this very fast snapping back at people who disagree with something going on.
> 
> Just think those working at the mountain might want to remember when they get a little snarky on here that you are taking that attitude with a potential customer and his/her family. You wouldn't want to Do a lot of Work and then take an attitude with people that might have $$ for you this season and turning them away because of a silly post on a silly forum. Not a big deal of course, just saying...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app




Oh we welcome input.  It’s when people who have obviously never been to Magic complain about our attempt to offer low cost skiing on a great mountain during the week- but that we still will absolutely reserve the right to pay some bills should the fair weather fans be descending...  it’s funny to me just how entitled people can really be.  There are literally dozens of ways to get a smoking deal on that ticket but NOOOOOOOO- they want to walk up to the window the day of a dump and get the greatest deal on earth with no effort whatsoever on their part.  They don’t want to buy from loftopia, support Magic with a multi pack or a Throwback card- that’s too much for them!  They want the Veruca Salt discount and they want it now, they may even threaten to sue for it!  

I say that’s a poor attitude.  We do everything we can to offer affordable skiing and like ten people work very hard here.  Internet People will always find a problem, but we are a ski area and a damn fine one at that.  Don’t like our pricing?  You’ll find all other area mountains even more expensive but by all means enjoy that search.  Should you decide to pay their exorbant fee, you’ll find their terrain is also far inferior, that most of the snow is already groomed down and there are hundreds more people skiing it up.  One might even say in that case you would cost yourself money AND pow by acting like Magic was pulling some kind of fast one, when our pricing is both clear and fair, people just can’t be bothered to read or pay any attention at all nowadays.  We aren’t in the business of apologizing for being the cheapest, best skiing around and I’m still lost on why people are upset- and by “people” I mean AR so that term is used loosely haha

Those who know Magic know full price is still a bargain and that’s why they aren’t complaining.  Heck, we offer an entire season pass for less then Vail charges for a day ticket- and nobody there will ever post here.  Go figure.


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## sull1102 (Sep 18, 2018)

Do Work,

I totally understand what you are saying and the fact that someone or perhaps multiple parties have actually even said the word "sue" in regards to a Throwback Thursday ticket shoes just how sad parts of society have become. That's just craziness. However, I still think there's some room for a little understanding. I just went to the Sox game last weekend against the Astros with my brother. We picked that game got those tickets back in May for pretty cheap and because I, like most of the league, figured that Astros would be competitive this season and that series would matter or be a preview of the ALCS. If the Sox had reached out and say hey there's a premium game fee on these tickets because the game is better, well they'd probably get sued lol. But there's more relevant examples as well, Snow with the St. Paddy's Day $17 ticket. If they started cranking up the price a week out because of a pow day people wouldn't be happy. 

The solution, which like you just said some people want that walk up to the window $17 no matter what scenario, might be to go to a system like Snow has adapted for their big discount days. As opposed to the old way of just unlimited cheap tickets on Founders Day, St. Paddy's Day, and whatever other discount days there are, they now sell them ONLY ONLINE. No games, no changing price or decisions to be made in the days beforehand. They also limit the tickets, so once those 1,000 or 3,500 discounted tickets are sold they price jumps up a bit. At a place the size of Magic you could even utilize Liftopia's same day selling and tell people at the window they might want to check online first. Then those angry people at the window are THRILLED because the woman working the window just hooked them up with a great deal, people remember that stuff. 

Finally one last thing just in general. I work in a industry where competition is fierce and there's 10+ companies making products that are incredibly similar, in fact companies blantantly copy each other all the time. A lot of the time people in the industry when they start out will trash another brand up and down just to get the sale or to make the brand they work look better. The thing is though, it should be looked at like everyone is a diamond, but our diamond has this, this, and this. It shouldn't always be this petty every corporate mountain sucks their terrain cannot hold a candle to the might Glebe Mountain, they destroy all the powder runs with groomers, and are too expensive (they really aren't crazy when you know what to look for and when I just paid $399(and could have spread paying for that from March to August on the payment plan for an unlimited season pass to 5 mountains in the Northeast and two other little guys in PA that I'll never go to). It shouldn't be about putting down other places to try to lift yourself up, and sometimes I feel like maybe I read more or it's damn close to 50/50 that I'm read stuff about other mountains deficits and not Magic's greatness. It can be looked at as tho Magic is great because the other places sucks, not because it is great on it's own. If I like those other places and was thinking about Magic for a day then I read them trashing  my beloved Stratton or whatever  home mountain I'm at, well I like my mountain. That backfire in the long term.

But honestly the fact that we're even talking about this stuff shows how far you guys and the team have brought Magic in a very short amount of time. Keep up the good work!

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## slatham (Sep 18, 2018)

Do Work said:


> You’ll be totally fine, the ledges are the only sketchy part.  Far skiers’ left is a nice point-and-shoot (just send it, don’t try to turn) and the middle/right is all choose-your-own-adventure steep face, usually bumped up and sometimes a few rocks mixed in for fun.  Once you do it once you’ll go back for more!



To add to this, there is another unnamed connector that is just above the ledges that takes you back to HOM. So you can sample the upper section of Black Line and see how it goes.

And there is a connector ("Link"?) FROM HOM that comes into BL just below the ledges, so you can get a look at the ledges before committing, and ski the last pitch of BL which is very nice.

Occasionally Brownie will groom Broomstick to upper BL to unnamed connector to HOM to connector ("Link") to lower BL. Two groomers wide. Its a nice treat when he does it......

JM and DW, seems there are a couple of connectors that need names, at least on the map.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 18, 2018)

I just think people are looking at this whole thing backwards.  I see it as Magic offers already one of the best walk up rates in the Northeast for the quality they provide.  However, if you are uncertain that the skiing will be good, here's an incredible incentive to come join us on Thursdays for $29. If you are on the fence about whether the conditions warrant the full walk-up rate, we still want you to come check us out for short money. 

Heck, I think a similar incentive at all ski areas would be a great thing for a sport with flat growth.  

One industry I've seen something similar is golf. It's usually a last minute thing, but I've seen courses offer last minute specials when the weather looks poor and they know attendance might be low the next day.  At least with the Magic promotion you can plan on the incentive being available most Thursdays of the season.

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## Do Work (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Finally one last thing just in general. I work in a industry where competition is fierce and there's 10+ companies making products that are incredibly similar, in fact companies blantantly copy each other all the time. A lot of the time people in the industry when they start out will trash another brand up and down just to get the sale or to make the brand they work look better. The thing is though, it should be looked at like everyone is a diamond, but our diamond has this, this, and this. It shouldn't always be this petty every corporate mountain sucks their terrain cannot hold a candle to the might Glebe Mountain, they destroy all the powder runs with groomers, and are too expensive (they really aren't crazy when you know what to look for and when I just paid $399(and could have spread paying for that from March to August on the payment plan for an unlimited season pass to 5 mountains in the Northeast and two other little guys in PA that I'll never go to). It shouldn't be about putting down other places to try to lift yourself up, and sometimes I feel like maybe I read more or it's damn close to 50/50 that I'm read stuff about other mountains deficits and not Magic's greatness. It can be looked at as tho Magic is great because the other places sucks, not because it is great on it's own. If I like those other places and was thinking about Magic for a day then I read them trashing  my beloved Stratton or whatever  home mountain I'm at, well I like my mountain. That backfire in the long term.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app




If that’s what you got out of what I wrote, I am done here.  People will truly hear wherever they are looking for no matter what I say.  I love how different the other mountains nearby are and think it’s a huge advantage to people planning a vaca...  but I digress.  We can’t even speak to our advantages without hurting feelings anymore it seems.  Have a nice day and look me up if you ever do come across the valley, I’d be happy to show you around.


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## jaytrem (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> It shouldn't be about putting down other places to try to lift yourself up



This I agree with.  As soon as a vendor starts bashing a competitor I try to avoid purchasing from them.  Big turn off.


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## mister moose (Sep 18, 2018)

People seem to be complaining that Magic can't or shouldn't set prices based on conditions.  That Magic shouldn't be able to set prices as they see fit.

Early season, when an area only has one or two runs open, they charge a reduced rate.  Once it snows or they make sufficient snow and most of the area is open, they then raise their rates to "normal".   There is no date or announcement when this increase will be.  So how much different is it for Magic to decline to offer a discount when their terrain expands?  There are also certain holidays when weekdays are not discounted, and that is common practice.

The one difference is that Magic's decision to discount or not might get made with very little or even no advance notice.  That policy is stated well in advance, so that any skier that has a clue on the accuracy of predicting snowstorms can make an informed decision.  Anytime there are flakes in the air you should expect to pay full tilt on Thursdays.  Go with that and you won't be disappointed.

I see creative price structure by a small independent private company on one hand, and some whining on the other hand.  Granted Magic could use more pricey PR polish, but then that's just more whining.
​


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## slatham (Sep 18, 2018)

Here's to hoping it snows 6" every F'ing Thursday this winter!


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## cdskier (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I totally understand what you are saying and the fact that someone or perhaps multiple parties have actually even said the word "sue" in regards to a Throwback Thursday ticket shoes just how sad parts of society have become. That's just craziness. However, I still think there's some room for a little understanding. I just went to the Sox game last weekend against the Astros with my brother. We picked that game got those tickets back in May for pretty cheap and because I, like most of the league, figured that Astros would be competitive this season and that series would matter or be a preview of the ALCS. If the Sox had reached out and say hey there's a premium game fee on these tickets because the game is better, well they'd probably get sued lol.



Not sure I understand your analogy. If you buy the tickets for Magic in advance, they don't upcharge you either if it ends up being a powder day. It is only the people that wait to the last minute that get "upcharged" and have to pay the normal rate (not a premium rate...just the  normal rate). There are plenty of industries out there that use a supply and demand pricing model. Buy early and lock in a good rate or wait until the last minute and take a chance that maybe rates will still be the same or maybe they go up if demand increases. That isn't price gouging (especially when you're still only raising prices up to a maximum of your normal rate).

Bottom line - they are offering a discount on non-powder Thursdays to drive business to the mountain on an otherwise slower day. I fail to see any issues with that.


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## tumbler (Sep 18, 2018)

You can see the stress of owning and working at a ski area manifesting itself here.  For DW and JM it is personal and they are taking it as such.  The everyday skier is not on this forum so I would not use this as the gauge for the market.  We used to stay away from the forums because they were so negative and unrealistic.  It is a private business, they can do what they want and charge what they want.  I have always been amazed at how cheap people can be on here.  They want the area to be open and everything running an perfect midweek but cannot pay full price for a lift ticket and never buy food in the lodge.  How do you think this business make money? 

However, building on a previous post, stop putting all the other mountains down, you are coming across petty.  I hope your public marketing campaign does not do this.  You are a small mountain in Southern Vermont that can be a day trip alternative to the larger hills and that has a troubled history of staying open.  Be positive, welcome everyone to come and try.  Talk about what you are doing and ignore the other areas.  The better they are doing, the better you will be doing...


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## sull1102 (Sep 18, 2018)

tumbler said:


> You can see the stress of owning and working at a ski area manifesting itself here.  For DW and JM it is personal and they are taking it as such.  The everyday skier is not on this forum so I would not use this as the gauge for the market.  We used to stay away from the forums because they were so negative and unrealistic.  It is a private business, they can do what they want and charge what they want.  I have always been amazed at how cheap people can be on here.  They want the area to be open and everything running an perfect midweek but cannot pay full price for a lift ticket and never buy food in the lodge.  How do you think this business make money?
> 
> However, building on a previous post, stop putting all the other mountains down, you are coming across petty.  I hope your public marketing campaign does not do this.  You are a small mountain in Southern Vermont that can be a day trip alternative to the larger hills and that has a troubled history of staying open.  Be positive, welcome everyone to come and try.  Talk about what you are doing and ignore the other areas.  The better they are doing, the better you will be doing...


110% agree with you here, maybe 120%! If you go on their site there is A TON, like WAY TOO MUCH, of this we're the alternative to the big crowded expensive corporate ski areas for the rich vibe going around. That's not a path to long term sustainability. Also, you NEED, whether you like it or not doesn't matter, NEED conquest guests from Snow/Stratton/Bromley. I like Snow and I like Stratton, of Magic is always trashing my favorite mountains to build themselves up it just is not goof. What happens when some other little upstart undercuts you on price or "Vermontiness" and suddenly people view you as the big corporate guy in town. And if anyone thinks that can't happen, personally I think Magic has a good shot under the right management to rise above Bromley in the little skiing triangle.

Do Work, you should re-read my post a couple times and think about what I said. I actually started off by agreeing with you and your response is well I'm done here ya bunch of cry babies. You might not like it dude but you represent a business on here, a business that until very recently was usually hours away from bankruptcy, and you are an integral part of that operation that's throwing around this big attitude. That's not a good look. I know you guys don't genuinely believe you are better than everyone else, but that's only because I have met you in person and many of the people up there and know you are good people.  It could very easily comes off like you guys think you are genuinely better than everybody if I'm just a random person perusing the ski forums. 

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## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2018)

Yeah, sorry about not hiring a pricey PR agency but then we’d have to charge more ;-) 

Hey, everything we do has consequences here. Not sure I understand the thought the Magic gets away with things other places don’t. Customers make decisions every day with their wallet. I know that the Throwback Thursday policy has cost us a few customers over the last two years as I have personally dealt with the complaints. We try to publish, state and re-state the policy over and over so it’s clear upfront that our special, promotional Thursdays do not include holidays or powder days as we’ve received some complaints on both. Our everyday price is $74. On our “Throwback Thursdays” it goes to $29–and there have been a bunch of kick ass ski days at $29—4-5 fresh inches, bluebird packed-powder days which some people actually like more than powder days. But with a 6” plus storm where more than 50% of our terrain will be open it will be our regular everyday price of $74 just like Friday’s-Sunday’s and holidays (many areas even charge more for holidays).

We listen, we debate and we make decisions here on what is best to do from pricing to infrastructure projects. We are not perfect and we will make mistakes. But in the last two years we’ve been pretty open and transparent on everything going on so people can make their own minds up about whether Magic is the type of place for them.

We try to be a bit more creative with some of our product offerings and it’s interesting that some resorts have followed our actions—more areas have started offering a heavily discounted day, more areas have offered VTer days like we do. But, some people have decided that a Throwback Thursday policy or a powder day skinning policy turns them off and we lose a customer. Others will decide they get what we are doing and commit to coming here more often. Thankfully there has been more of the ladder. But the idea that we are getting away with something is really ridiculous. It’s all about providing choices for customers. Ours is just one of many great choices out there but we are purposely trying to show there is a different way to go skiing and riding if you are so inclined. Throwback Thursdays are a way to try Magic at a low cost or reward those close by with a cheap day of skiing. Powder days are special here and we feel it’s a day deserving of our regular priced ticket. Those who commit early and buy online can still get a great deal. The online marketplace has changed the industry so resorts are now adjust pricing and inventory all the time based on conditions and heavy traffic periods. What we are trying to do with our every day pricing, Throwback Thursdays, Locals days, Throwback Cards, Freedom 4 packs, is provide an alternative that’s more affordable while at the same time insuring that Magic is sustainable over the long term.

I’ve heard from some people that putting in the new Green Mid Mtn Chair is a mistake and that no one used that chair in decades past. But strategically we need to offer a product to more folks than just expert skiers. Green not only does that, but with the way we’ve added glades it will offer a ton a great variety off that lift for all skier types and with a smaller footprint for early season snowmaking, we should be able to open earlier!

There are no guarantees here, all we can do is make the best judgements on what gives customers a great value and unique experience while providing a means for Magic to be a viable business entity.

We like our chances. We are always listening to our customer and communicating. Not every one will like the decisions we make and will make a decision that’s best for them. That’s free enterprise. That’s the marketplace. But deceptive practices are not our thing. We communicate what our policies are and you all take it from there—and know that we will listen to reasonable suggestions and perhaps change our minds. There are some good ideas out there. And some aren’t. That’s where we get to choose.


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## ss20 (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> The solution, which like you just said some people want that walk up to the window $17 no matter what scenario, might be to go to a system like Snow has adapted for their big discount days. As opposed to the old way of just unlimited cheap tickets on Founders Day, St. Paddy's Day, and whatever other discount days there are, they now sell them ONLY ONLINE. No games, no changing price or decisions to be made in the days beforehand. They also limit the tickets, so once those 1,000 or 3,500 discounted tickets are sold they price jumps up a bit. At a place the size of Magic you could even utilize Liftopia's same day selling and tell people at the window they might want to check online first. Then those angry people at the window are THRILLED because the woman working the window just hooked them up with a great deal, people remember that stuff.



I think this is a great idea...I got a $12 Powder Day at Mount Snow a couple years ago because of it.  They didn't charge me another $65+ when I got there :razz:


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> 110% agree with you here, maybe 120%! If you go on their site there is A TON, like WAY TOO MUCH, of this we're the alternative to the big crowded expensive corporate ski areas for the rich vibe going around. That's not a path to long term sustainability. Also, you NEED, whether you like it or not doesn't matter, NEED conquest guests from Snow/Stratton/Bromley. I like Snow and I like Stratton, of Magic is always trashing my favorite mountains to build themselves up it just is not goof. What happens when some other little upstart undercuts you on price or "Vermontiness" and suddenly people view you as the big corporate guy in town. And if anyone thinks that can't happen, personally I think Magic has a good shot under the right management to rise above Bromley in the little skiing triangle.



I don't see Magic trying to compete directly with Stratton/Bromley/Snow. Why should they, it's harder terrain, less grooming, more woods, overall less amenities and you go there to ski and not for other reasons.

Magic's biggest competition is probably Mad River Glen and maybe some sleeper areas like Pico where people enjoy getting a deal and skiing woods and some steeps. The advantage to Magic is shorter drive, probably lower prices, and the fact that if the snow is good, it's just as good as NoVT (in some cases better).

Actually I think what they are doing is carving a niche and the whole "Throwback" pricing and vibe is part of that.

I work in marketing and I'm not concerned for them if they continue course as such. I would be concerned if they started trying to compete directly with Stratton and Snow.

Stratton and Snow don't get SKI THE EAST kids on powder days. Just saying. And if you've been to Bromley lately you know they have some work to do to maintain their clientele, a much worse situation to be in than Magic IMO which is rising.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 18, 2018)

Where are there examples of Magic publicly trashing other areas in their marketing?  I'm not seeing it on their website. I follow them on Facebook and nothing has ever really stood out. 

All I see is Magic differentiating themselves from the competition with the uniqueness of their product.  The only thing I see in a casual review of their website is a slight ribbing of Killington for a couple of former K employees joining the Magic team. You really have to look for that though.  I'm sure 99% of visitors to their site won't even find the "hmmmmm" comment. If that makes you not want to ski there because they are being mean to Killington, well then you might be a bit uptight.

Is it just ski forums some feel that Magic puts down other areas? Even that is a bit of a stretch.

I mean maybe on forums there's a little bit of ribbing towards others 

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## JoeB-Z (Sep 18, 2018)

_It shouldn't be about putting down other places to try to lift yourself up _


jaytrem said:


> This I agree with.  As soon as a vendor starts bashing a competitor I try to avoid purchasing from them.  Big turn off.



This does not get it right in my opinion. From what I have seen Magic has great relationships with other mountains. Okemo gave or sold them some terrain park equipment. Stratton was enthusiastic about selling Magic the new lift. Magic is not even really a competitor with the industry giants and they clearly have no ill will toward Magic, rather the opposite.

Magic is rebuilding a run down business. Many people still think it is closed! In order to get noticed on a budget, it makes noise and has a cheeky attitude. Also, it seeks to differentiate itself with what it has. Terrain, less traffic and old school feel.


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## skithetrees (Sep 18, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yeah, sorry about not hiring a pricey PR agency but then we’d have to charge more ;-)
> 
> Hey, everything we do has consequences here. Not sure I understand the thought the Magic gets away with things other places don’t. Customers make decisions every day with their wallet. I know that the Throwback Thursday policy has cost us a few customers over the last two years as I have personally dealt with the complaints. We try to publish, state and re-state the policy over and over so it’s clear upfront that our special, promotional Thursdays do not include holidays or powder days as we’ve received some complaints on both. Our everyday price is $74. On our “Throwback Thursdays” it goes to $29–and there have been a bunch of kick ass ski days at $29—4-5 fresh inches, bluebird packed-powder days which some people actually like more than powder days. But with a 6” plus storm where more than 50% of our terrain will be open it will be our regular everyday price of $74 just like Friday’s-Sunday’s and holidays (many areas even charge more for holidays).
> 
> ...



At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, we have been property owners at the mountain since the 80’s before it closed and have seen a lot. Heck, we have even been small investors. You are by far the most professional, respectful, transparent and competent owners the mountain has had in 30 plus years. You are literally reversing 30 years of decline and mismanagement and its been only a year. Well done. 

PS, loved the triple when I was a kid and riding up over the pipe. I think it’s a great, family friendly addition.


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## Do Work (Sep 18, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> Where are there examples of Magic publicly trashing other areas in their marketing?  I'm not seeing it on their website. I follow them on Facebook and nothing has ever really stood out.
> 
> All I see is Magic differentiating themselves from the competition with the uniqueness of their product.  The only thing I see in a casual review of their website is a slight ribbing of Killington for a couple of former K employees joining the Magic team. You really have to look for that though.  I'm sure 99% of visitors to their site won't even find the "hmmmmm" comment. If that makes you not want to ski there because they are being mean to Killington, well then you might be a bit uptight.
> 
> ...




There are no examples because we don't.  Never have.  Well, except of course where I stated above that Magic has superior powder skiing terrain and leaves more fresh out there for the customers- which is nothing new and hardly trashing anyone.  Everybody knows those things.  Heck, all of the Stratton managers that live on Magic Circle will straight up tell you the same exact thing, Strat BANKS on that.  If they are looking for groomers, trail count or a village we happily send them across the valley- where we also have many friends that work and play.  There is 0 animosity between mountains around here, and a little something for everyone.

I don't get where people think we are "trashing" other mountains by pointing out our very obvious differentiation (which we HAVE to do in order to not get lost in the ocean of competition among peers with massive marketing budgets), and are the only mountain I'm aware of that actually limits day ticket sales to preserve the uncrowded slopes we regularly laud the virtues of...  So I really don't understand the idea that we are out to gouge people for every penny of profit- that's simply not the case and never was or will be.  We actually give up a ton just to try to get locals and those who have a hard time affording it otherwise venues of access...  I understand how the internet works, though.  Someone will always think that because we are real people that we are subpar in our efforts, and I'm ok with that too.  We go WAY above and beyond to promote transparency and there's 150+ pages of answers and communication here to prove it.  The people who understand what we are doing and the tiiiiiiny niche we are hand-chiseling out for ourselves in this space dominated by giants will continue to appreciate it, and that's all I can really work for effectively.   

I can only hope that enough people "get it" to balance out the ones starving for outrage enough to feel slighted by our marketing schtick or promotional deals' limitations or restrictions.  Whatever harm felt there is certainly unintended- but one might even wonder if it's unavoidable once you reach a certain level of popularity or success though.  Transparency and communication will always be a double edged sword and we will try to continue to communicate things as we can, but this whole "Magic gets away with stuff" is a load of bull that I absolutely reserve the right to take issue with.  As seen above, we can't even get away with speaking candidly and realistically without dozens of posts complaining.  It's really quite ridiculous once suing people gets brought up, and nobody but me thinks that is hilariously out of line.  We will keep posting, but I will certainly be dialing it back- not that I personally feel some kind of way about what was said but I'm increasingly concerned that there's nothing I can say and I don't have time to back-and-forth with people when they will never quite understand what I'm saying anyways.  Cheers to everybody for caring though, the snow is coming soon!


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## Do Work (Sep 18, 2018)

JoeB-Z said:


> _It shouldn't be about putting down other places to try to lift yourself up _
> 
> This does not get it right in my opinion. From what I have seen Magic has great relationships with other mountains. Okemo gave or sold them some terrain park equipment. Stratton was enthusiastic about selling Magic the new lift. Magic is not even really a competitor with the industry giants and they clearly have no ill will toward Magic, rather the opposite.
> 
> Magic is rebuilding a run down business. Many people still think it is closed! In order to get noticed on a budget, it makes noise and has a cheeky attitude. Also, it seeks to differentiate itself with what it has. Terrain, less traffic and old school feel.




Very much this.  Thank you good sir :beer:


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## NYDB (Sep 18, 2018)

Pointing out that Stratton, mount snow and okemo are the corporate groomer kings = Trashing?  

Who is sensitive again?    

I love having all the different options in So VT. 

Anyway, I hope the Magic management team keeps posting here.


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## sull1102 (Sep 18, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I don't see Magic trying to compete directly with Stratton/Bromley/Snow. Why should they, it's harder terrain, less grooming, more woods, overall less amenities and you go there to ski and not for other reasons.
> 
> Magic's biggest competition is probably Mad River Glen and maybe some sleeper areas like Pico where people enjoy getting a deal and skiing woods and some steeps. The advantage to Magic is shorter drive, probably lower prices, and the fact that if the snow is good, it's just as good as NoVT (in some cases better).
> 
> ...



Magic closest comparable resorts would be MRG and Pico. Magic's competition is most certainly Bromley amongst others. Stratton not so much, they are a true juggernaut especially with the resources Alterra bring to the table. This region does not have enough skiers to think that almost every single skier is not a potential customer(and why would you not look at it that way when rebuilding an almost dead business?You are creating a whole new product so even if you are just borrowing people from that mountain and this mountain on a Sunday after they ski there season pass mountain the day before that is a huge win). Even the families from the Upper East Side going to the Stratton mansion every weekend with the Range Rover are potential customers. You get a few of them they tell a few friends etc etc. With the introduction of the new Green Lift, the magic carpet, plus that safe small town vibe Magic is really looking like a great family mountain in the years to come. 

Snow most certainly does get the SKI THE EAST kids on powder days, one of the great things about Carinthia and all the effort that goes into the best park in the East. I would be one of these SKI THE EAST kids. Not all of us jump in the car and drive the 4-6 hours up to Jay whenever it dumps.

Do Work, perhaps you missed where I said it is hilarious for people to even bring up suing over these things? 

Always funny to see how quickly things can escalate when you start talking about a lightning rod like Magic on here or over on SJ. The critics are harsh and often completely unrealistic and the defenders go bananas defending the place, there is no other mountain in world like it lol.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Magic closest comparable resorts would be MRG and Pico. Magic's competition is most certainly Bromley amongst others. Stratton not so much, they are a true juggernaut especially with the resources Alterra bring to the table.
> 
> Snow most certainly does get the SKI THE EAST kids on powder days, one of the great things about Carinthia and all the effort that goes into the best park in the East. I would be one of these SKI THE EAST kids. Not all of us jump in the car and drive the 4-6 hours up to Jay whenever it dumps.



#1 Park skiing and riding is a completely different sport and irrelevant to my interests. I get that it's important to some people but I do appreciate that Mount Snow keeps the saggy pants crowd in one area

#2 Speaking as someone who's driving up I-91 in western mass.... Bromley / Stratton / Snow are *never* alternatives to Magic for me. Although they may offer better skiing on some occasions and I will take advantage of that. It's all about the snow conditions, what kind of skiing I want to do that day, and how far I want to drive. So I consider "comparable mountains" (I guess we agree Pico fits the bill somewhat) their competition on a day-to-day basis. Last year during the March mega-storm, for example, I went to Magic for Day 1 and Mad River Glen for Day 2. Those were the places I wanted to ski in epic conditions and I made it work.

Last year I also went to Bromley one day but it was the day after a decent snowfall, and I chose nice grooming over choppy leftovers. Bromley delivered very well in that case. Stratton I probably will not go back to unless it's midweek and I have essentially a free ticket. Not my style over there.

#3 I understand my skiing habits are probably out of the norm


----------



## BenedictGomez (Sep 18, 2018)

Meh, the fact there's even a "debate" here seems to suggest that it's likely a pennywise-and-pound-foolish decision on Magic's part from a business perspective to change pricing if there's a Thursday dump. 

 Especially given this is a rare, midweek event, rather than an ongoing, repeatable occurrence where there'd be a significant financial impact.  Unless the delta in revenue from these rare Thursday walk-ups is truly enormous (which I doubt), I'd say the smarter decision from a marketing perspective is to just leave the Thursday price at the original level and keep whatever minority of customers you're annoying, happy instead.  No, the customer isn't "always right", but they usually at least have a legitimate point.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

^ I have been there on a couple pow thursdays the last few years and they were absolutely packed, literally at or beyond capacity for their lifts, lodge and parking.

I think days like this DO help the operators out substantially especially after a warm stretch or some other weather related BS. Black Line Tavern packed to the brim all day plus long lift lines, I can totally understand why they want to charge full price.

Maybe with more lifts running it alters the equation.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> there is no other mountain in world like it lol.



This is true.

Passion.


----------



## mister moose (Sep 18, 2018)

Do Work said:


> I can only hope that enough people "get it" to balance out the ones starving for outrage enough to feel slighted by our marketing schtick or promotional deals' limitations or restrictions.​


​
That's internet gold - the "starving for outrage" part.  Hope you don't mind if I use that someday.

​


Do Work said:


> We will keep posting, but I will certainly be dialing it back- not that I personally feel some kind of way about what was said but I'm increasingly concerned that there's nothing I can say and I don't have time to back-and-forth with people when they will never quite understand what I'm saying anyways.  Cheers to everybody for caring though, the snow is coming soon!



Up the road at Killington and Kzone we had a Director of Communications years ago that would come on and try to address almost every issue.  There were numerous antagonists on the board that would make sport of cutting him up.  He seriously lacked the humor, insight, straightforwardness and backbone to do a good job of it.  Win Smith and Steve Wright are two that have done a good job of it at their respective resorts, with very different styles.  Mike Solimano now comes on Kzone occasionally to set the record straight when some issue goes to hyper drive.  He doesn't participate often but he does so with clarity.

Candid communication is valuable, drawn out spats with folks you can't please is not.  So my 2 cents is dial back the frequency if you need to.  Dial back the need to respond to every jab, your actions speak louder over the long run than a few internet posts.  Just don't dial back the clarity or responsiveness.


----------



## Jully (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Do Work, perhaps you missed where I said it is hilarious for people to even bring up suing over these things?
> 
> Always funny to see how quickly things can escalate when you start talking about a lightning rod like Magic on here or over on SJ. The critics are harsh and often completely unrealistic and the defenders go bananas defending the place, there is no other mountain in world like it lol.



To be fair to Do Work, he comes on here not super frequently and sees a bunch of posts, some more inflammatory than others, complaining about Magic. I don't blame him if he misses/misattributes who said what complaint about Magic. You may be quoted, but I think it safe to assume you are not supposed to be the sole recipient of his frustration. He's speaking to a crowd and responding to multiple posts at once.


----------



## jaytrem (Sep 18, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> Where are there examples of Magic publicly trashing other areas in their marketing?





Do Work said:


> There are no examples because we don't.



I think this quote is what people had a bit of an issue with...

"Should you decide to pay their exorbant fee, you’ll find their terrain is also far inferior, that most of the snow is already groomed down and there are hundreds more people skiing it up."

That being said, I mostly agree with the statement.  But I can see how it can be a bit off putting when it comes from somebody representing Magic.  

Anyway, I do appreciate everything you guys are doing.  I'm shooting for a March 7th powder Thursday at Magic!!!  Might be my kids first time there (unless we get an earlier one in), very excited!  Last 2 years they could ski much better than they could pull down safety bars, so double chairs were occasionally an issue.


----------



## Jully (Sep 18, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yeah, sorry about not hiring a pricey PR agency but then we’d have to charge more ;-)
> 
> Hey, everything we do has consequences here. Not sure I understand the thought the Magic gets away with things other places don’t. Customers make decisions every day with their wallet. I know that the Throwback Thursday policy has cost us a few customers over the last two years as I have personally dealt with the complaints. We try to publish, state and re-state the policy over and over so it’s clear upfront that our special, promotional Thursdays do not include holidays or powder days as we’ve received some complaints on both. Our everyday price is $74. On our “Throwback Thursdays” it goes to $29–and there have been a bunch of kick ass ski days at $29—4-5 fresh inches, bluebird packed-powder days which some people actually like more than powder days. But with a 6” plus storm where more than 50% of our terrain will be open it will be our regular everyday price of $74 just like Friday’s-Sunday’s and holidays (many areas even charge more for holidays).
> 
> ...



Snowballing forum discussions are always a risk/nasty side effect of interacting directly with a passionate community like this. As a relative outsider to this most recent discussion, the comments by the vast majority of those involved (especially yours and do work) I think have helped clarify this policy (and clarified it a few months ago when the same discussion happened).

I hope this doesn't change your attitude towards AZ and/or the community involvement and interaction you've been doing. Its really awesome, unique, and appreciated. 

Almost every comment made in this thread comes from a thoughtful and genuinely interested place. It may appear misinformed and armchair quarterback-y to you all in the trenches, but (at least it appears to me) that most people don't feel any vitriol towards Magic. They're trying to make (admittedly unsolicited) constructive critiques. No one means anything bad by it!


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 18, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> #1 Park skiing and riding is a completely different sport and irrelevant to my interests. I get that it's important to some people but I do appreciate that Mount Snow keeps the saggy pants crowd in one area



I'll take this off topic just briefly. Dont be such a donkey! I am so sick and tired of this a-hole attitude from people that say crap like "the saggy pants crowd" guy get with the times, it isn't 2005 anymore. AND idrc if you're a little racist and backwards but boy oh boy is there a pretty healthy dose of racist sentiment when you say things like "saggy pants crowd" so I'll call you on that too. The park crowd has changed a lot over the past few years and I see a whole hell of a lot of your "crowd" creeping through the park year round doing your little kickers and such so you may pretend you hate the parks and oh the young saggy pant crowd is so unbearable then go to MRG and have a goddamn ball when the natural snow is nowhere to be found. Should I be coming on here talking about how I can't stand the preppy tight pant race kids and lodge moms running around like they own every single mountain and base lodge they invade on any given day? Taking up every square inch of the place. AND BTW the parks and the younger crowd are what keep YOUR SPORT ALIVE. I'd even argue the "park crowd" has benefitted MRG in the sense that people with suck attitudes such as yours go to MRG more now than you would if they allowed all people that enjoy the mountains. While the older crowd ages out us younger people is practically funding these places now. As we go from the park back to the bunny hill with the munchkins that we introduce to the sport we most certainly are a part of the same sport. That is just such silly complete garbage and really strikes a nerve with me.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Dont be such a donkey!



I care about park skiing so little that I'm not even going to defend my statement. I will say most pants were saggy last year @ Carinthia so maybe you should tell them to get with the times instead 

Really didn't expect "saggy pants" comment to draw such a response but oh well. Literally there are entire lines of winter clothing designed to sag and worn primarily by park skiers lol


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 18, 2018)

So DW/JM, how's that Green chair going? Lol


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> So DW/JM, how's that Green chair going? Lol



Oooookay.

Lower bull wheel now locked and almost loaded as haul cable splicing likely to happen on Friday.




Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## AdironRider (Sep 18, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Ahahahaha this guy is losing it.  Waaaaah I could sue in NH hahahahaha
> 
> I had no idea we were so cool!!  Hahahaha this is awesome, I needed a laugh.  Thanks, guy.  You’re the real MVP today.



This is great way to present yourself as an owner. 

You should know I've been to your joint twice since you took over. Not a ton of revenue sure, but you won't ever see any from me again.


----------



## urungus (Sep 18, 2018)

slatham said:


> Do Work said:
> 
> 
> > You’ll be totally fine, the ledges are the only sketchy part.  Far skiers’ left is a nice point-and-shoot (just send it, don’t try to turn) and the middle/right is all choose-your-own-adventure steep face, usually bumped up and sometimes a few rocks mixed in for fun.  Once you do it once you’ll go back for more!
> ...



Thanks for the tips guys!  Looking forward to making my first trip down "Black Line".  By the way, the connector on skiers left of "Black Line" just above the ledges appears to have been called "French Connection" on the 1981 trail map.  The connector from the end of Broomstick (top of Black Line) back over to HOM appears to have been a green run named "Face To Face" on the 1987 trail map.  These two maps (available at skimap.org) also show names for many of the other unnamed connector trails I have noticed while riding up the Red Chair (e.g. Swiss Connection, Blue Liftline)


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## Harvey (Sep 18, 2018)

urungus said:


> Are you complainers also outraged that the weekday discount lift ticket rate at most resorts is not valid on holidays?  How is “Thursday rate does not include powder days” any different than “weekday rate does not include holidays” ?



This.

Who's a capitalist and who isn't? Who sincerely believes that businesses should have the right to set prices where ever they choose?  What businesses don't charge more for their most desirable product?

What were prices like at the other SoVT mtns the day you got "gouged" or whatever?  If they were better, why didn't you go there?

Like every other mountain out there, Magic has to make money.  Many costs are fixed. Weather is a huge variable, it can be bad or really bad and generate huge loses. How to pay for that?  Charge more when people will pay it.

SMFH


----------



## shwilly (Sep 18, 2018)

I probably shouldn't get involved at all, but I can't help it.



sull1102 said:


> AND idrc if you're a little racist and backwards but boy oh boy is there a pretty healthy dose of racist sentiment when you say things like "saggy pants crowd" so I'll call you on that too.



Come on, now. Context matters. If someone were grousing about "city kids these days and their baggy pants," then yes, you might fairly call out racial overtones. 

But New England skiers are about as lily white a demographic as you will find. I wish it were more diverse, but it is what it is. Almost all of the saggy pants-wearing park skiers in NE are white. bdfreetuna was clearly just referring to park kids without any racial implication.

Anyway! Hope Magic gets great snow this year and I'll see you all in court when I sue for some free tickets.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

Jeeeez I skimmed sull1102's post and totally missed the muh racism "call out" !

Thanks for backing me on that one shwilly ... how absurd !

I'm just gonna block this guy, rather than mess up this thread any further (I'm sure Magic really wants to see racism accusations and resulting arguments in their thread)... what a loser and so ignorant to play that card.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Sep 18, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Who's a capitalist and who isn't? Who sincerely believes that businesses should have the right to set prices where ever they choose?



I'm a capitalist.  I also sincerely believe that businesses should have the right to set prices where ever they choose.

But I also sincerely believe you're conflating multiple issues in non sequitur fashion.

There is a difference between,_ "can I do something"_, and _"is said something smart for my business"_.   If Tuna is correct and Magic is jammed to slope capacity on each Thursday powder day, then it's likely their policy is doing little harm. 



Harvey said:


> *What businesses don't charge more for their most desirable product?*



Given you're defining _"most desirable product"_ as powder days, the answer is, virtually every ski area in North America.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 18, 2018)

shwilly said:


> Context matters. *If someone were grousing about "city kids these days and their baggy pants," then yes, you might fairly call out racial overtones. *



No.   That too would be absurd. 

 In fact, in nigh all these "faux racism" cases it's typically the person who can find racism just looking under the couch who is actually the racist.


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## MMP (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I'll take this off topic just briefly. Dont be such a donkey! I am so sick and tired of this a-hole attitude from people that say crap like "the saggy pants crowd" guy get with the times, it isn't 2005 anymore. AND idrc if you're a little racist and backwards but boy oh boy is there a pretty healthy dose of racist sentiment when you say things like "saggy pants crowd" so I'll call you on that too. The park crowd has changed a lot over the past few years and I see a whole hell of a lot of your "crowd" creeping through the park year round doing your little kickers and such so you may pretend you hate the parks and oh the young saggy pant crowd is so unbearable then go to MRG and have a goddamn ball when the natural snow is nowhere to be found. Should I be coming on here talking about how I can't stand the preppy tight pant race kids and lodge moms running around like they own every single mountain and base lodge they invade on any given day? Taking up every square inch of the place. AND BTW the parks and the younger crowd are what keep YOUR SPORT ALIVE. I'd even argue the "park crowd" has benefitted MRG in the sense that people with suck attitudes such as yours go to MRG more now than you would if they allowed all people that enjoy the mountains. While the older crowd ages out us younger people is practically funding these places now. As we go from the park back to the bunny hill with the munchkins that we introduce to the sport we most certainly are a part of the same sport. That is just such silly complete garbage and really strikes a nerve with me.



Jesus Christ. Chill out. 


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## MMP (Sep 18, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> This is great way to present yourself as an owner.
> 
> You should know I've been to your joint twice since you took over. Not a ton of revenue sure, but you won't ever see any from me again.



He’s not the owner. 

I am. 



Idiot. 


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

Only a couple months away from posting overly optimistic NAM 3k CONUS models :lol:

Shifting back...

How's black chair replacement looking for this year? Even just adding Green will be a ser upgrade. Wondering if you were still on track with the quad too?


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Only a couple months away from posting overly optimistic NAM 3k CONUS models :lol:
> 
> Shifting back...
> 
> How's black chair replacement looking for this year? Even just adding Green will be a ser upgrade. Wondering if you were still on track with the quad too?



Zero state permit on Quad

Next year 



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## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2018)

Nope, not even a full moon to explain this thread


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## prsboogie (Sep 18, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I think this is a great idea...I got a $12 Powder Day at Mount Snow a couple years ago because of it.  They didn't charge me another $65+ when I got there :razz:


And you would have just paid $29 if you bought your ticket online like you did at Snow. What part of pre-purchased tickets that happen to fall on a powder day are not up charged. I was at Snow that Founders day and it was fantastic, they we're also charging $59 for a walk up. What's the fucking outrage for that! 

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## skiur (Sep 18, 2018)

Nothing to add, justed wanted to post in this epic thread!


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I'll take this off topic just briefly. Dont be such a donkey! I am so sick and tired of this a-hole attitude from people that say crap like "the saggy pants crowd" guy get with the times, it isn't 2005 anymore. AND idrc if you're a little racist and backwards but boy oh boy is there a pretty healthy dose of racist sentiment when you say things like "saggy pants crowd" so I'll call you on that too. The park crowd has changed a lot over the past few years and I see a whole hell of a lot of your "crowd" creeping through the park year round doing your little kickers and such so you may pretend you hate the parks and oh the young saggy pant crowd is so unbearable then go to MRG and have a goddamn ball when the natural snow is nowhere to be found. Should I be coming on here talking about how I can't stand the preppy tight pant race kids and lodge moms running around like they own every single mountain and base lodge they invade on any given day? Taking up every square inch of the place. AND BTW the parks and the younger crowd are what keep YOUR SPORT ALIVE. I'd even argue the "park crowd" has benefitted MRG in the sense that people with suck attitudes such as yours go to MRG more now than you would if they allowed all people that enjoy the mountains. While the older crowd ages out us younger people is practically funding these places now. As we go from the park back to the bunny hill with the munchkins that we introduce to the sport we most certainly are a part of the same sport. That is just such silly complete garbage and really strikes a nerve with me.



Exhibit A






Count the number of long johns in the park sections vs the freeride/backcountry segments.


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 18, 2018)

MMP said:


> He’s not the owner.
> 
> I am.
> 
> ...



Oh snap - AdironRider got OWNED!


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## prsboogie (Sep 18, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Oooookay.
> 
> Lower bull wheel now locked and almost loaded as haul cable splicing likely to happen on Friday.
> 
> ...


This chair is going to get me and the family to Magic this year. The kids wouldn't have had a problem but my wife wouldn't have flown off Red! Can't wait to ski some Throwback Thursdays.! JM youzz guyzz going to Boston in November?

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## GregoryIsaacs (Sep 18, 2018)

I feel like 95% of the "you can only get away with vibe for so long" people have never even stepped foot in Londonderry let alone ridden up the red chair.... or eaten lunch at BLT.... Ill stop before I even mention the trails. 

Its funny that people cant wrap their buff covered heads around the fact that a ski area like this really only makes money for 1/3 of the year.... and the fact that ownership would wanna make it while they can while literally pulling the whole operation from out of the grave.. 

But hey maybe if Magic got a Tram like JH they could be worth the extra $30...what a joke

- A Mount Snow passholder who can't wait to bring family and friends after skiing Magic for the first time last year.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 18, 2018)

With the green chair I'll be recommending Magic to a handful of friends I have that seem to be perpetual beginners. Literally they are afraid to take any lift to the top of any mountain, so Green is perfect.


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## Harvey (Sep 18, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> But I also sincerely believe you're conflating multiple issues in non sequitur fashion.
> 
> There is a difference between,_ "can I do something"_, and _"is said something smart for my business"_.   If Tuna is correct and Magic is jammed to slope capacity on each Thursday powder day, then it's likely their policy is doing little harm.



Right. As a business owner you make a lot of decisions. Good decisions should help you thrive and bad decisions could hurt you.

Was the OP saying that this was a bad business decision for the future of Magic? If so I misunderstood. To me it sounded like he was saying he'd been wronged.

And you are right about what Tuna said. When you reach capacity, it is time to raise prices. Especially if long term success is not assured.  AKA the ski business.


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## Harvey (Sep 18, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Given you're defining _"most desirable product"_ as powder days, the answer is, virtually every ski area in North America.



Also right. Jammed on a Thursday sounds like most desirable to me.


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## Harvey (Sep 18, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Its funny that people cant wrap their buff covered heads around the fact that a ski area like this really only makes money for 1/3 of the year...



It's more like:

Winter Weekends
Christmas Week
Presidents Week

How many days is that?


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## Do Work (Sep 18, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Also right. Jammed on a Thursday sounds like most desirable to me.




Giggity


----------



## NYDB (Sep 18, 2018)

Uncunt.  Uncunt!!!

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## JimG. (Sep 18, 2018)

We used to have Killington threads like this one back in the day.


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## mister moose (Sep 18, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Plan a trip to magic and it snows, your family trip just got 200 bucks more expensive, completely unplanned and you wouldn't know until what, two hours at best before they open?
> 
> Lots of other folks would be getting in a car that morning. I wouldn't be thrilled to show up and the price just jumped over 100%.
> 
> Magic isn't good enough to pull this indefinitely. Hence why they have closed how many times?



I'm wondering how many restaurants you've been to that opposite the lobster dinner it says "Market Price".


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## IceEidolon (Sep 18, 2018)

Harvey said:


> It's more like:
> 
> Winter Weekends
> Christmas Week
> ...


I hear up to 1/3 of yearly revenue can come from Christmas, MLK, and President's Day traffic, assuming good weather. If Magic can sell out a Powder Day for $100,000+ ($74 x 1500 ticket cap) instead of $45,000 (same, but Throwback pricing) more power to 'em - if there's powder, it's worth it. 

I think Magic is well worth some kind of pass product, I'm just debating whether I can make it north often enough to beat the average window rate. So far I haven't, but the other mountain pass benefits are tempting...

As for commentary from actual informed Magic folks, I hope the monkeys throwing ideas and insults around out here - of which I am one, especially about snowmaking - don't end up cutting off the flow of facts especially about operational decisions and constraints. I really enjoy following the continuing progress and seeing how things evolve.



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## Harvey (Sep 18, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> I hear up to 1/3 of yearly revenue can come from Christmas, MLK, and President's Day traffic



My information says 1/3 of season revenue comes from Christmas week.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 18, 2018)

Say it with confidence like that and I'll believe you!

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## Bosco DaSkia (Sep 18, 2018)

MMP said:


> He’s not the owner.
> 
> I am.
> 
> ...




Wow, way to act like a real asshole. As a long time customer of and fan of your ski area, I still find the actions of you and your employees deplorable in this part of this thread. 

I have worked in this industry for 25 years now, and I have yet to see a positive outcome from shitting on your customers, or potential customers. What's the point? You never look good when you are sarcastically putting someone down. At best you look like an asshole, and at worst, you lost a potential paying customer who is also going to talk shit about you to everyone he knows. Remember, word of mouth advertising works both ways.

Engage the positive folks, and ignore anything you perceive as negative. Otherwise, you risk alienating folks that would otherwise be happy, paying customers.


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## sull1102 (Sep 18, 2018)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> Wow, way to act like a real asshole. As a long time customer of and fan of your ski area, I still find the actions of you and your employees deplorable in this part of this thread.
> 
> I have worked in this industry for 25 years now, and I have yet to see a positive outcome from shitting on your customers, or potential customers. What's the point? You never look good when you are sarcastically putting someone down. At best you look like an asshole, and at worst, you lost a potential paying customer who is also going to talk shit about you to everyone he knows. Remember, word of mouth advertising works both ways.
> 
> Engage the positive folks, and ignore anything you perceive as negative. Otherwise, you risk alienating folks that would otherwise be happy, paying customers.


Just a heads up Bosco that MMP does not own Magic thank god. Jamaicaman runs the show up there after decades of stuggle under previous ownership groups while Do Work is a major major major part of the team as well. 

As to the complete meltdown around my comment that saying you are glad the saggy pants crowd stays away from your area has a racist undertone to it then you are likely lilly white and from the burbs because that is one of the most obvious racist things and always has been. But then again someone also said that because I pointed this out it is most likely that I am actually the racist... Rightttttttttt. God I love getting skiers panties all in a bunch. Also good work to the person who dug up one loan video from Ski The East. How about you go look at the Burton team and their clothing lineup this year... 

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## Jully (Sep 19, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> I hear up to 1/3 of yearly revenue can come from Christmas, MLK, and President's Day traffic, assuming good weather. If Magic can sell out a Powder Day for $100,000+ ($74 x 1500 ticket cap) instead of $45,000 (same, but Throwback pricing) more power to 'em - if there's powder, it's worth it.
> 
> I think Magic is well worth some kind of pass product, I'm just debating whether I can make it north often enough to beat the average window rate. So far I haven't, but the other mountain pass benefits are tempting...
> 
> ...



+1


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## MMP (Sep 19, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Just a heads up Bosco that MMP does not own Magic thank god.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Personally, I’d have fired you much sooner. 


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## slatham (Sep 19, 2018)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> Wow, way to act like a real asshole. As a long time customer of and fan of your ski area, I still find the actions of you and your employees deplorable in this part of this thread.
> 
> I have worked in this industry for 25 years now, and I have yet to see a positive outcome from shitting on your customers, or potential customers. What's the point? You never look good when you are sarcastically putting someone down. At best you look like an asshole, and at worst, you lost a potential paying customer who is also going to talk shit about you to everyone he knows. Remember, word of mouth advertising works both ways.
> 
> Engage the positive folks, and ignore anything you perceive as negative. Otherwise, you risk alienating folks that would otherwise be happy, paying customers.



So from a single blog post you take it as gospel that MMP is the owner of Magic? He's a great guy and one of the biggest fans of Magic, but he ain't running the show. You may be a long time customer, but you are not very informed, and you might want to become better informed before you make assumptions and throw people under the bus. Read the full thread, then tell me who speaks for the mountain. I doubt you'll find it is "deplorable".

And for the record, I have no official association with Magic.


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## MMP (Sep 19, 2018)

And referring to “baggy pants” crowd in the context of lily white skiing, isn’t racist. 

It may be unfair to snowboarders, but racist? Nah. 


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## Smellytele (Sep 19, 2018)

MMP said:


> And referring to “baggy pants” crowd in the context of lily white skiing, isn’t racist.
> 
> It may be unfair to snowboarders, but racist? Nah.
> 
> ...



MRG is racist also!


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## RustyGroomer (Sep 19, 2018)

With a desperate attempt to save...….


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## sull1102 (Sep 19, 2018)

MMP said:


> Personally, I’d have fired you much sooner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh you poor poor thing. You can believe what you want, but I quit and left that burning building head held high after the old man lost his shit when I chose not to steal money from paying customers for a product that was never coming. A major vendor used for online sales and multiple credit card companies started calling with major fraud concerns and no one gave a shit. The vendor then realized how bad things were and opted to issue refunds, seeing as they were a responsible business with common sense. I bet you those that did get their money back were happy to not get worked over. Sorry I wasn't down for just stealing and lying all day, everyday claiming we were gonna open any day now while I had people lying to me about what was actually going on, work they were doing, and watched the whole place collapse and stab itself in the back over and over again.

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 19, 2018)

Look why don't you guys go and shit up a new thread and leave this for people who actually want discuss Magic and what's happening there. 

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


----------



## MMP (Sep 19, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Oh you poor poor thing. You can believe what you want, but I quit and left that burning building head held high after the old man lost his shit when I chose not to steal money from paying customers for a product that was never coming. A major vendor used for online sales and multiple credit card companies started calling with major fraud concerns and no one gave a shit. The vendor then realized how bad things were and opted to issue refunds, seeing as they were a responsible business with common sense. I bet you those that did get their money back were happy to not get worked over. Sorry I wasn't down for just stealing and lying all day, everyday claiming we were gonna open any day now while I had people lying to me about what was actually going on, work they were doing, and watched the whole place collapse and stab itself in the back over and over again.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Might want to switch to decaf. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MMP (Sep 19, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> With a desperate attempt to save...….



You can fuck off too. 


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----------



## NYDB (Sep 19, 2018)

I use bibs so my pants don't sag.


Thanks for attempt RG


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 19, 2018)

Huge bib fan.


----------



## rtjcbrown (Sep 19, 2018)

MMP said:


> And referring to “baggy pants” crowd in the context of lily white skiing, isn’t racist.
> 
> It may be unfair to snowboarders, but racist? Nah.
> 
> ...



*
Agreed. I don't care about your ethnicity, the color of your skin, or what you have strapped to your feet, I just don't need to see your underwear/plumbers crack. If you can't have some self-respect, at least respect others enough to pull up your pants.  
*


----------



## JDMRoma (Sep 19, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> With a desperate attempt to save...….




Nice Save ! Cant wait to go back to  Magic this year !!


----------



## ShadyGrove (Sep 19, 2018)

slatham said:


> So from a single blog post you take it as gospel that MMP is the owner of Magic? He's a great guy and one of the biggest fans of Magic, but he ain't running the show. You may be a long time customer, but you are not very informed, and you might want to become better informed before you make assumptions and throw people under the bus. Read the full thread, then tell me who speaks for the mountain. I doubt you'll find it is "deplorable".
> 
> And for the record, I have no official association with Magic.



But I read it on the internet, so it's got to be true!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 19, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> you are likely lilly white and from the burbs



So far in this thread (and probably going back several years on this forum in general) you've been the only person to:

- see things through a lens of racism / race-obsession even in logically absurd cases
- talk about a specific race as if it's a bad thing (in your case the white race)
- talk about suburban people as if someone's place of living or economic status automatically makes them ignorant

I wouldn't go so far as to call you a racist, but you certainly are stereotyping. My brown psychologist wife thinks you could learn a thing or two about projection based on one's own insecurities. Normally I don't mention her race but I guess that's important to you.

You ought to man up (even though that might be hate speech in your book), apologize, and wash out the blue hair dye before any more seeps into your brain.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 19, 2018)

Anybody that ever has a serious question or issue on what’s happening at Magic can email me ghatheway@magicmtn.com or call me at 802-824-5645. Except MMP of course ;-)


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----------



## skifree (Sep 19, 2018)

need more pictures please!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 19, 2018)

I will now atone for my comeback by contributing to the stoke.. from last year's March storm


----------



## MMP (Sep 19, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Anybody that ever has a serious question or issue on what’s happening at Magic can email me ghatheway@magicmtn.com or call me at 802-824-5645. Except MMP of course ;-)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Now I’m definitely calling. [emoji23]


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----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 19, 2018)

Here you go skifree.


----------



## skifree (Sep 19, 2018)

thank you

I'm ready


----------



## Domeskier (Sep 19, 2018)

Can the millennial weigh in on this dilemma I'm having:  am I racist for making fun of this guy or am I guilty of supporting cultural appropriation if I don't?


----------



## slatham (Sep 19, 2018)

rustygroomer said:


> here you go skifree.



april 7th no less!!!!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 19, 2018)

Domeskier said:


> Can the millennial weigh in on this dilemma I'm having:  am I racist for making fun of this guy or am I guilty of supporting cultural appropriation if I don't?



Did you just assume their gender?

:uzi:


----------



## makimono (Sep 19, 2018)

Volunteer Day this Saturday, I'm planning on going...DW or JM is there any mowed slope that would be out of the way of the disc golf program where a guy could try out his grass skis on? I was thinking it might even be fun and dangerous to try them out in Disappearing Act or the Hallows. 
:dunce:

*[FONT=wfont_8d4d8a_63560769b6d844c3b3aa33c2ed71c6f7]V[/FONT]*
*Volunteer Day #2

When: September 22, 8:30am - 2:00pm
Where: Meet at Base Lodge
Description: Meet at base lodge for glade clearing and lodge projects to help Magic get ready for the 2018-19 season. Lunch and refreshments will be served to all volunteers!

*


----------



## skifree (Sep 19, 2018)

makimono said:


> Volunteer Day this Saturday, I'm planning on going...DW or JM is there any mowed slope that would be out of the way of the disc golf program where a guy could try out his grass skis on? I was thinking it might even be fun and dangerous to try them out in Disappearing Act or the Hallows.
> :dunce:
> 
> *[FONT=wfont_8d4d8a_63560769b6d844c3b3aa33c2ed71c6f7]V[/FONT]*
> ...



just make sure you have non baggy pants and  put your boards in the rack when done.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 19, 2018)

Just make sure you film please.  Sadly I cannot be there. 

 Just in case anyone is wondering if this guy is for real.  Here's Makimono on his mono.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 19, 2018)

makimono said:


> Volunteer Day this Saturday, I'm planning on going...DW or JM is there any mowed slope that would be out of the way of the disc golf program where a guy could try out his grass skis on? I was thinking it might even be fun and dangerous to try them out in Disappearing Act or the Hallows.
> :dunce:
> 
> *[FONT=wfont_8d4d8a_63560769b6d844c3b3aa33c2ed71c6f7]V[/FONT]*
> ...



We have a few areas mowed for disc golf you might be interested in.  What’s the worst that could happen?!


----------



## makimono (Sep 19, 2018)

skifree said:


> just make sure you have non baggy pants and  put your boards in the rack when done.



I was thinking Jorts and a Tall Tee but I certainly don't want to be culturally insensitive to anyone's...cultural sensitivities.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Sep 19, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> I use bibs so my pants don't sag.



So you are INTENTIONALLY keeping yourself from looky saggy?    Careful, Sull1112, will call you a racist!


----------



## BenedictGomez (Sep 19, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> So far in this thread (and probably going back several years on this forum in general) you've been the only person to:
> 
> - see things through a lens of racism / race-obsession even in logically absurd cases
> - talk about a specific race as if it's a bad thing (in your case the white race)
> - talk about suburban people as if someone's place of living or economic status automatically makes them ignorant



Yup.  This was my point, but you explained it better.

In my observational experience, it's the people who obsess & fixate over race that tend to actually be racist.  In a weird sort of sanctimonious, showy, self-righteous way, it's like they're publicly trying to prove to themselves that they're not. [/End FreudMode]


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 19, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> Just make sure you film please.  Sadly I cannot be there.
> 
> Just in case anyone is wondering if this guy is for real.  Here's Makimono on his mono.



We must get Makimono on film. Thinking 15th hole/kinderspiel?


----------



## makimono (Sep 19, 2018)

haha cool, we'll have a little Rollka session after beers and burgers time


----------



## Do Work (Sep 19, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> We must get Makimono on film. Thinking 15th hole/kinderspiel?



I was going to suggest a warmup on the lodge lawn, and if he survives we can go to kinderspiel haha


----------



## makimono (Sep 19, 2018)

Do Work said:


> I was going to suggest a warmup on the lodge lawn, and if he survives we can go to kinderspiel haha


In my mind I'm already doing hop turns down redline....your plan is probably more better


----------



## jaytrem (Sep 19, 2018)

makimono said:


> DW or JM is there any mowed slope that would be out of the way of the disc golf program where a guy could try out his grass skis on?



So is the non-mowed stuff like a powder day?  Bet it is, but nobody was ever stupid enough to find out.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Sep 19, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> So is the non-mowed stuff like a powder day?  Bet it is, but nobody was ever stupid enough to find out.



that'll be $74, bud.


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 19, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> that'll be $74, bud.


 

Oh Jesus, here I come ready to grenade this thread again ya racist lunatic!


----------



## ss20 (Sep 20, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> that'll be $74, bud.



But today is Thursday!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Sep 20, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> So is the non-mowed stuff like a powder day?  Bet it is, but nobody was ever stupid enough to find out.


 
He's plenty stupid enough.

Thinking if anyone could rip on these things, it' Maki.  Or I see a gigantic ski explosion & we'll be finding parts all winter.  Upset I can't be there.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 20, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> He's plenty stupid enough.
> 
> Thinking if anyone could rip on these things, it' Maki.  Or I see a gigantic ski explosion & we'll be finding parts all winter.  Upset I can't be there.





I wonder if they make a roller mono.


----------



## skifree (Sep 20, 2018)

grass skiing option would be awesome for off season.

http://oshosport.com/grassski.php


----------



## mriceyman (Sep 20, 2018)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> Wow, way to act like a real asshole. As a long time customer of and fan of your ski area, I still find the actions of you and your employees deplorable in this part of this thread.
> 
> I have worked in this industry for 25 years now, and I have yet to see a positive outcome from shitting on your customers, or potential customers. What's the point? You never look good when you are sarcastically putting someone down. At best you look like an asshole, and at worst, you lost a potential paying customer who is also going to talk shit about you to everyone he knows. Remember, word of mouth advertising works both ways.
> 
> Engage the positive folks, and ignore anything you perceive as negative. Otherwise, you risk alienating folks that would otherwise be happy, paying customers.



And i own peaks.. message me with any questions you may have about our resorts. 


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----------



## Smellytele (Sep 20, 2018)

mriceyman said:


> And i own peaks.. message me with any questions you may have about our resorts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



heard you have the good drugs. Willing to share?


----------



## mriceyman (Sep 20, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> heard you have the good drugs. Willing to share?



Very good green leafs. Gota love the medical supply


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----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 20, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I say if we ban charging regular price on powder days (instead of a discounted rate) we ought to ban $199 College Kid season passes and *$29 Ladies Days* first.


Charging someone more because of their gender is illegal if I am not mistaken.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 20, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> #2 Speaking as someone who's driving up I-91 in western mass.... Bromley / Stratton / Snow are *never* alternatives to Magic for me. Although they may offer better skiing on some occasions and I will take advantage of that.


You are literally saying that Bromley, Stratton and Mt. Snow are alternatives to Magic for you.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 20, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> You are literally saying that Bromley, Stratton and Mt. Snow are alternatives to Magic for you.



Not alternatives. But I do ski most places in Vermont, although probably not Stratton any time soon again.

Perhaps you missed my meaning but I mean on a powder day, or good snow conditions, when I want to ski some woods and double diamonds those other mountains are not an alternative. Taking a longer drive into northern Vermont would be the alternative.

Likewise in November when it's whoever has the most WROD available it's unlikely I would consider Magic an alternative to Mount Snow.

Geographic proximity being a secondary factor when I have to drive several hours anyway and ski Killington most frequently.


----------



## VTKilarney (Sep 20, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Not alternatives. But I do ski most places in Vermont, although probably not Stratton any time soon again.
> 
> Perhaps you missed my meaning but I mean on a powder day, or good snow conditions, when I want to ski some woods and double diamonds those other mountains are not an alternative. Taking a longer drive into northern Vermont would be the alternative.
> 
> ...


From a business perspective, you just described those other mountains as being alternatives to Magic.  You are saying that there are days during the ski season when you prefer nearby options over Magic - and that you give your business to those nearby options.  Sounds like there are alternatives to Magic to me.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 20, 2018)

New tag line: “Magic. The alternative to the alternatives”


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----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 20, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> From a business perspective, you just described those other mountains as being alternatives to Magic.  You are saying that there are days during the ski season when you prefer nearby options over Magic - and that you give your business to those nearby options.  Sounds like there are alternatives to Magic to me.



Fair enough. I think you get what I'm saying, and you're welcome to make your own comparisons between mountains as well.

Pico and Bolton are the two areas I think of as alternatives to Magic given the terrain and low key / lower price. Maybe Burke too but that requires twice as much driving so that's stretching it. MRG possibly as well but I don't think of MRG really as an alternative to anything, rather it's the inconveniently located place I'd like to ski most of the time.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 20, 2018)

I guess it depends on your definition of "alternative".

?


----------



## MMP (Sep 20, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> New tag line: “Magic. The alternative to the alternatives”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Been hitting this pen and my head just exploded. 


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----------



## Tin (Sep 21, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> New tag line: “Magic. The alternative to the alternatives”
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Do Work (Sep 21, 2018)

MMP said:


> Been hitting this pen and my head just exploded.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Dude!  Use only as directed!


----------



## slatham (Sep 21, 2018)

Nice article on Magic in latest Ski Mag. I can confirm through reliable sources that there is one bit of fake news in the article....


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Sep 21, 2018)

Tin said:


>



This makes me wanna bump the VT Post July 1 thread


----------



## Tin (Sep 21, 2018)

slatham said:


> Nice article on Magic in latest Ski Mag. I can confirm through reliable sources that there is one bit of fake news in the article....




Yea...the pic. Do Work doesn't actually ski anymore.


----------



## urungus (Sep 22, 2018)

Hmm, I don’t see anything about Magic in the Sept 2018 issue of Ski Mag (“Gear Guide”)


----------



## slatham (Sep 22, 2018)

urungus said:


> Hmm, I don’t see anything about Magic in the Sept 2018 issue of Ski Mag (“Gear Guide”)



That was #1 this is in #2, Resorts of the Year.


----------



## Do Work (Sep 22, 2018)

Tin said:


> Yea...the pic. Do Work doesn't actually ski anymore.





G lets me out of my cage every now and then, but only if we bring back pics.  :grin:


----------



## Dickc (Sep 23, 2018)

slatham said:


> Nice article on Magic in latest Ski Mag. I can confirm through reliable sources that there is one bit of fake news in the article....



I caught that High Speed error too.  Nice article.  I really want to come to Magic and ski it.  Its not going to be this winter as November 2 I am scheduled for back surgery and they will fuse 4 vertebra.  I will only ski vicariously through all of you posting on this board for this winter.  Sigh. The doctor answered in the affirmative if I would be able to ski NEXT winter!


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 23, 2018)

Dickc said:


> I caught that High Speed error too.  Nice article.  I really want to come to Magic and ski it.  Its not going to be this winter as November 2 I am scheduled for back surgery and they will fuse 4 vertebra.  I will only ski vicariously through all of you posting on this board for this winter.  Sigh. The doctor answered in the affirmative if I would be able to ski NEXT winter!


Good luck with the surgery. I'm sure it won't be for you but it's amazing how fast a year passes! Damn my parents for being right about that [emoji34]

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 23, 2018)

Dickc said:


> I caught that High Speed error too.  Nice article.  I really want to come to Magic and ski it.  Its not going to be this winter as November 2 I am scheduled for back surgery and they will fuse 4 vertebra.  I will only ski vicariously through all of you posting on this board for this winter.  Sigh. The doctor answered in the affirmative if I would be able to ski NEXT winter!



I'll make that extra effort to post some powder day trip reports for your vicarious ski season. Godspeed on the recovery. If it gets too tough staying indoors just remember the doc didn't say anything about snowboarding.


----------



## slatham (Sep 23, 2018)

Dickc said:


> I caught that High Speed error too.  Nice article.  I really want to come to Magic and ski it.  Its not going to be this winter as November 2 I am scheduled for back surgery and they will fuse 4 vertebra.  I will only ski vicariously through all of you posting on this board for this winter.  Sigh. The doctor answered in the affirmative if I would be able to ski NEXT winter!



My brother had that surgery a year ago and has full green light for this ski season. And Tiger Woods had it too and looks like he's about to win the PGA Championship today.


----------



## makimono (Sep 23, 2018)

as promised, yes they're Jorts couldn't find a tall tee...


----------



## makimono (Sep 23, 2018)

...after Maki's run the crowds began to leave, and we started to pack up, but look who's in the starting gate...


----------



## Dickc (Sep 24, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I'll make that extra effort to post some powder day trip reports for your vicarious ski season. Godspeed on the recovery. If it gets too tough staying indoors just remember the doc didn't say anything about snowboarding.



But he did say 3 months of no lifing, twisting or bending.  Ugh.


----------



## Dickc (Sep 24, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> Good luck with the surgery. I'm sure it won't be for you but it's amazing how fast a year passes! Damn my parents for being right about that [emoji34]
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Thanks.  I do have a few things that will keep me busy, but I know that skiing will be gnawing at me in the back of my mind.


----------



## Dickc (Sep 24, 2018)

slatham said:


> My brother had that surgery a year ago and has full green light for this ski season. And Tiger Woods had it too and looks like he's about to win the PGA Championship today.



I sure hope I come out OK.  After my 2016 surgery I did well for 7 months, then it went downhill.  I did manage 54 days that winter.  I only did 16 last winter and had to give up as it hurt to damn much.


----------



## urungus (Sep 24, 2018)

Dickc said:


> I caught that High Speed error too.  Nice article.  I really want to come to Magic and ski it.  Its not going to be this winter as November 2 I am scheduled for back surgery and they will fuse 4 vertebra.  I will only ski vicariously through all of you posting on this board for this winter.  Sigh. The doctor answered in the affirmative if I would be able to ski NEXT winter!



That sucks about the surgery.  Hope it goes well and you will be able to tear it up next winter


----------



## JamaicaMan (Sep 25, 2018)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA2SYv08rwM


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----------



## WoodCore (Sep 25, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA2SYv08rwM


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 26, 2018)

Hey Congrats on the big SKI article


----------



## prsboogie (Sep 26, 2018)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoNGTHLAk1h/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=18kldqp8nsu4s

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----------



## urungus (Sep 28, 2018)

Throwback cards go on Monday at 7 am


----------



## Brewbeer (Oct 1, 2018)

Magic is a bargain at full price when it's 100% open.


----------



## skicub (Oct 1, 2018)

Got my throwback card! Purchased first thing this morning! Never been to Magic, but am a Regular at Bromley. Can’t wait! 


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----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 1, 2018)

skicub said:


> Got my throwback card! Purchased first thing this morning! Never been to Magic, but am a Regular at Bromley. Can’t wait!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Welcome to the road less traveled! 


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----------



## tnt1234 (Oct 2, 2018)

This is gonna be my year to finally get to magic.  I can just feel it....


----------



## Killingtime (Oct 2, 2018)

tnt1234 said:


> This is gonna be my year to finally get to magic.  I can just feel it....



Yeah me too. I've been intrigued after following this thread and the article in SKI kind of sealed it. I'll drop in one early Sunday morning on the way back to NY from K-town.


----------



## slatham (Oct 2, 2018)

tnt1234 and Killingtime, why don't you drop by Saturday morning for Volunteer Day #3 and do some pre-ski homework on the glade situation? Looks like a beautiful day to be in the woods!


----------



## RustyGroomer (Oct 2, 2018)

Hope to see you guys there.  Old pic that never gets old.  Come anyday but if you catch Black like this you're in for some serious fun.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Oct 2, 2018)

Close up.


----------



## MG Skier (Oct 2, 2018)

Wish I could make some of the work days. I am in my busy season for a month and a week or two.


----------



## Killingtime (Oct 2, 2018)

slatham said:


> tnt1234 and Killingtime, why don't you drop by Saturday morning for Volunteer Day #3 and do some pre
> 
> Definitely wouldn't mind helping those guys out but unfortunately I'm not in VT this weekend. From the trail map it looks like Twighlight, Goniff and Wardrobe would be a lot of fun. Blackline looks good too. It'll have to wait a few more weeks for me.


----------



## slatham (Oct 2, 2018)

Killingtime said:


> slatham said:
> 
> 
> > tnt1234 and Killingtime, why don't you drop by Saturday morning for Volunteer Day #3 and do some pre
> ...


----------



## tnt1234 (Oct 3, 2018)

slatham said:


> tnt1234 and Killingtime, why don't you drop by Saturday morning for Volunteer Day #3 and do some pre-ski homework on the glade situation? Looks like a beautiful day to be in the woods!





slatham said:


> tnt1234 and Killingtime, why don't you drop by Saturday morning for Volunteer Day #3 and do some pre-ski homework on the glade situation? Looks like a beautiful day to be in the woods!



Would love to but I'm in jersey....and suddenly have a gig to play saturday.

This post dovetails with that other thread - I want to live in VT!


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 3, 2018)

tnt1234 said:


> Would love to but I'm in jersey....and suddenly have a gig to play saturday.
> 
> This post dovetails with that other thread - I want to live in VT!







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----------



## slatham (Oct 3, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> View attachment 24045
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Just waiting for snow....

JM is that a stake I see, indicating line of new Black Line Quad? Lower right corner.


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 3, 2018)

slatham said:


> Just waiting for snow....
> 
> JM is that a stake I see, indicating line of new Black Line Quad? Lower right corner.



Coming up right there SL


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----------



## slatham (Oct 7, 2018)

Great day at Magic yesterday for volunteer day #3. Multiple crews up on the mountain, plus lodge work and siding on the Green lift shack. Good turnout and fun by all at the mini-Oktoberfest with Stein holding comp and corn hole contest (with some sweet Magic graphics). Green chair is making progress and it is great to look from the deck to see two chairs to the east. Another great view is looking down into Sunshine corner from Carpet and seeing the new patrol shack and the Green summit terminal beyond, newly painted, with shiny sheaves and a cable.

They've done significant work buffing the trails down to front yard depth grass - inducing ALL the steep I could see (Red,Black,Black Magic, Witch, HOM, Talisman). They have also cut back numerous trails to their original width, notably Trick, Magic Carpet "through the woods", Lower Carpet, etc. The mountain has probably never been this set up for ski season.

Pics in next post....


----------



## slatham (Oct 7, 2018)

Working skier right of lower Black Magic:






Middle HOM.













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----------



## Do Work (Oct 18, 2018)

slatham said:


> Working skier right of lower Black Magic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I can't wait to get into the last work day.  Soooo much cleanup has happened this year, I am so stoked for the pow days to begin!


----------



## MG Skier (Oct 18, 2018)

Wish I could have made one, not available on weekends for 3 more weeks. I understand the push to be done....... due to a hopeful early opening!


----------



## Killingtime (Oct 18, 2018)

Do Work said:


> I can't wait to get into the last work day.  Soooo much cleanup has happened this year, I am so stoked for the pow days to begin!



I have a feeling you will be busy this year. More than one person has asked me what I know about Magic. I think a lot of people didn't even realize its in Vermont. Whatever you are doing it is starting to get noticed (maybe not a great thing for some of us?). I always try to go to a few new places each year to mix it up. Except for Breckenridge in Feb 2019, I'm really pumped about hitting Magic for the first time. Good job guys.


----------



## p_levert (Oct 18, 2018)

How is the green lift installation going?  Will it be available in early Dec, as planned?


----------



## JamaicaMan (Oct 18, 2018)

p_levert said:


> How is the green lift installation going?  Will it be available in early Dec, as planned?



It’s coming along nicely but definitely a few weeks more of work and inspections, including load test, as we target late November


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## Do Work (Oct 19, 2018)

Killingtime said:


> I have a feeling you will be busy this year. More than one person has asked me what I know about Magic. I think a lot of people didn't even realize its in Vermont. Whatever you are doing it is starting to get noticed (maybe not a great thing for some of us?). I always try to go to a few new places each year to mix it up. Except for Breckenridge in Feb 2019, I'm really pumped about hitting Magic for the first time. Good job guys.





Honestly, I understand the concern for Magic becoming crowded, but let me tell you how hard we are working to mitigate the influx of people and preserve that experience that everyone is looking for at Magic.  

First, we have been aggressively cleaning out all of our existing older glades that have fallen out of usage due to a lack of maintenance- and there are a ton of them even with all the efforts in the past few years.  Old work roads, locals cuts, side trails etc...  LOTS of stuff to open up over the next few years without even looking at new areas.  The goal is to add a handful of "new" terrain (that isn't actually new but you get the idea) every year for the next several years to keep expanding what is available as we add new skiers and riders.  There will be more to ski and more to love ALL OVER the place.  That isn't even getting into proposed expansions, but those are still a secret for now ;-)

Second, we are adding lifts but keeping a keen eye on uphill capacity and *where* the skiers are being dropped.  The Green Chair will really change things in a big way both for beginner/intermediate access but also in terms of customer service- race tickets will now only be good on Green, keeping those huge groups from messing with a busy Red Chair queue.  Also, lots of terrain accessible from the Green has been cleaned out, meaning that there is some REALLY good terrain over there- I know a lot of people already saying they're going to be lapping the Green on a pow day after the requisite couple runs on the West Side.  

Also, we limit day passes sold on any given day.  The set number will change slightly now that we will be adding the Green Chair, but we are dead set on keeping our wait times down even if it means impacting our maximum profits a bit as our dedicated following grows.  Obviously season pass holders and pre-buyers have nothing to worry about, but it really does help keep the crowds manageable, and the experience reliable Magical.  I'm not aware of ANY mountain that cares this much about the customer experience.      

So don't fret, my man.  We are doing everything we can possibly imagine to preserve the experience that makes Magic special.  Things HAVE to change obviously, but we are taking great effort- and at great expense- to ensure that what draws people to Magic is still a thing even years and years down the road.  We are all here specifically because we are in love with the Magic Way, and every single one of us is working to keep it special.  We appreciate the hell out of all the love we get back from tMagic's patrons and love that the people appreciate the effort to preserve this way of life and skiing niche.


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## drjeff (Oct 19, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Honestly, I understand the concern for Magic becoming crowded, but let me tell you how hard we are working to mitigate the influx of people and preserve that experience that everyone is looking for at Magic.
> 
> First, we have been aggressively cleaning out all of our existing older glades that have fallen out of usage due to a lack of maintenance- and there are a ton of them even with all the efforts in the past few years.  Old work roads, locals cuts, side trails etc...  LOTS of stuff to open up over the next few years without even looking at new areas.  The goal is to add a handful of "new" terrain (that isn't actually new but you get the idea) every year for the next several years to keep expanding what is available as we add new skiers and riders.  There will be more to ski and more to love ALL OVER the place.  That isn't even getting into proposed expansions, but those are still a secret for now ;-)
> 
> ...



As the parent of 2 racers, do you still plan on using Talisman for the older kids (U14's and up) or will all racing now be done on Showoff with access via the Green? Given what an AWESOME slalom hill tali is for the older kids, I sure hope that timing system will be used on it this winter!  Regardless, myself, and I know many other racer parents will be buying full area tickets when we watch our kids race, and also, if the racing will only be on Showoff now, not worry as much about our kids and their at times, refusal to either wait for their team coat bags to come down after their run, or insist that they don't need to put a coat on overt their race suits and then go ride the Red on a cold windy day! ;-)


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 19, 2018)

drjeff said:


> As the parent of 2 racers, do you still plan on using Talisman for the older kids (U14's and up) or will all racing now be done on Showoff with access via the Green? Given what an AWESOME slalom hill tali is for the older kids, I sure hope that timing system will be used on it this winter!  Regardless, myself, and I know many other racer parents will be buying full area tickets when we watch our kids race, and also, if the racing will only be on Showoff now, not worry as much about our kids and their at times, refusal to either wait for their team coat bags to come down after their run, or insist that they don't need to put a coat on overt their race suits and then go ride the Red on a cold windy day! ;-)



Talisman is a go for U14 race on President Day Monday. That’s one great race trail.


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## MG Skier (Oct 19, 2018)

JamaicaMan and Do Work.....

There is a reason I purchased a Blackout Pass at Magic for this year! Your updates are awesome and I enjoy the transparency on what is up and where things stand etc. Looking forward to meeting both of you this season! 

I was hooked last year! (The powder was an added bonus!) Keep it up! 

The presence of the Green Chair is a complete game changer! Looking forward to seeing that registration!

It was cold enough for snow in about all fNew England last night.

-Cheers!


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## drjeff (Oct 19, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Talisman is a go for U14 race on President Day Monday. That’s one great race trail.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



AWESOME!!  Can't wait for it, and let's hope that mother nature is about 1,000,0001 times more cooperative for getting a race for the kids on Tali this year than last year!!


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## Do Work (Oct 19, 2018)

MG Skier said:


> JamaicaMan and Do Work.....
> 
> There is a reason I purchased a Blackout Pass at Magic for this year! Your updates are awesome and I enjoy the transparency on what is up and where things stand etc. Looking forward to meeting both of you this season!
> 
> ...




We sincerely appreciate your investment and will be working as hard as possible towards earning you as a season pass holder one day!


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## Do Work (Oct 19, 2018)

drjeff said:


> As the parent of 2 racers, do you still plan on using Talisman for the older kids (U14's and up) or will all racing now be done on Showoff with access via the Green? Given what an AWESOME slalom hill tali is for the older kids, I sure hope that timing system will be used on it this winter!  Regardless, myself, and I know many other racer parents will be buying full area tickets when we watch our kids race, and also, if the racing will only be on Showoff now, not worry as much about our kids and their at times, refusal to either wait for their team coat bags to come down after their run, or insist that they don't need to put a coat on overt their race suits and then go ride the Red on a cold windy day! ;-)



Offering Talisman as a reliable race venue in the future is a huge goal of ours.  As we nail down all the shortcomings of our system, being able to get West faster for that very reason is a large component of why.  The huge jump in challenge from anywhere else around  embodies so much of what Magic stands for, and is a race course like none other in southern VT.


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## JoeB-Z (Oct 19, 2018)

Races on Talisman are fun to watch. The steeper pitch at the bottom of the course is a challenge if the racers haven't kept a little in the tank or get over ambitious.




JamaicaMan said:


> Talisman is a go for U14 race on President Day Monday. That’s one great race trail.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 21, 2018)

MG Skier said:


> JamaicaMan and Do Work.....
> 
> There is a reason I purchased a Blackout Pass at Magic for this year! Your updates are awesome and I enjoy the transparency on what is up and where things stand etc. Looking forward to meeting both of you this season!
> 
> ...



Thanks for buying a pass! Come see me at the office...



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## BenedictGomez (Oct 22, 2018)

MG Skier said:


> *The presence of the Green Chair is a complete game changer!*



What is the point of the Green Chair, exactly? I feel like I must be missing something. 

  Is it a chair primarily for beginners & lower-intermediates so they can better lap that terrain without having to go to the top?


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## IceEidolon (Oct 22, 2018)

There are several things the Green Chair is supposed to be. It'll provide (most) racers a faster route up with shorter lines, it'll take beginners and intermediates to some excellent beginner/intermediate terrain on busy days, and it'll allow an earlier more aggressive opening plan because the Green chair can be mostly served by new low energy HKD snowguns that Magic has been installing, rather than old school Ratniks that cover much of the areas above Sunrise Corner. That'll come into play more in future as more water capacity comes online. Right now that's a big deal mostly for local families, race teams, and the like.

Depending how the Magic team decides to play their hand, it might mean snowmaking priorities change a bit but that one we'll have to wait and see. 

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## Do Work (Oct 23, 2018)

^

It also serves some of the best tree skiing on the mountain (don't tell anyone though haha).  On a pow day you may be surprised to see the people lapping Green after they've had a few runs on the West Side.  I love the East Side trees!


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## MG Skier (Oct 23, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> Thanks for buying a pass! Come see me at the office...
> View attachment 24097
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Will Do!


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## Big Game (Oct 24, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> There are several things the Green Chair is supposed to be....it'll take beginners and intermediates to some excellent beginner/intermediate terrain on busy days




My first time at Magic last year and I was blown away how the cruisers are really some of the best around. I went to Magic for the trees and steeps. I expected them to be awesome and they were awesome. The surprise was really good cruisers. And most Magic users are hitting the steeps. So what that means is you find corduroy after lunch. I would absolutely recommend Magic for the beginner skier over some of the more crowded places. Lots of room. Few traverses. No idiots blasting by. And the Green Chair only makes it better.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 24, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> *It'll provide (most) racers a faster route up with shorter lines*,



The weekend I spent at Magic last year the lines were insane and I imagine at least 25% of it must have been due to the race league(s) going on, so I guess that makes sense.  I could see it being good for beginners and low-intermediates wanting to lap that terrain too, though I always wonder what percentage of those folks take that option at XYZ mountain rather than going up to the top anyway.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2018)

Think of it like the MTN triple at Stowe.  A lot of folks use that lift to access good intermediate terrain vs taking the Forerunner

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## Do Work (Oct 24, 2018)

Big Game said:


> My first time at Magic last year and I was blown away how the cruisers are really some of the best around. I went to Magic for the trees and steeps. I expected them to be awesome and they were awesome. The surprise was really good cruisers. And most Magic users are hitting the steeps. So what that means is you find corduroy after lunch. I would absolutely recommend Magic for the beginner skier over some of the more crowded places. Lots of room. Few traverses. No idiots blasting by. And the Green Chair only makes it better.




I tell people this all the time and they never believe me.  Sure, Stratton is known far and wide for it's quality grooming but with thousands of people skiing it you're scraped down to ice relatively very quickly.  Magic's limited day ticket sales cap along with a demographic that looks to the trees pretty much guarantees that when the trail count is up, the cruising will be top notch all day long.  Also once trials like Kinderspiel are groomed out, it's undulating double fall line and cool rollers make carving up the cord a joy you may not have expected.    

Magic has so many more advantages than people realize, and the one-trick-pony "only go on a pow day" adage is dying off pretty quickly (thank God)


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## Killingtime (Oct 24, 2018)

Do Work said:


> I tell people this all the time and they never believe me.  Sure, Stratton is known far and wide for it's quality grooming but with thousands of people skiing it you're scraped down to ice relatively very quickly.  Magic's limited day ticket sales cap along with a demographic that looks to the trees pretty much guarantees that when the trail count is up, the cruising will be top notch all day long.  Also once trials like Kinderspiel are groomed out, it's undulating double fall line and cool rollers make carving up the cord a joy you may not have expected.
> 
> Enough already with this. I'm getting ready to trade in my Beast Pass and buy a Magic Pass. But seriously, I'm looking forward to skiing with you guys this year. Just have to work in some days now.


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 24, 2018)

Big Game said:


> My first time at Magic last year and I was blown away how the cruisers are really some of the best around. I went to Magic for the trees and steeps. I expected them to be awesome and they were awesome. The surprise was really good cruisers. And most Magic users are hitting the steeps. So what that means is you find corduroy after lunch. I would absolutely recommend Magic for the beginner skier over some of the more crowded places. Lots of room. Few traverses. No idiots blasting by. And the Green Chair only makes it better.



[emoji123][emoji482]


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## NYDB (Oct 25, 2018)

work session still on if its pouring rain sideways all day?


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## djspookman (Oct 25, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> work session still on if its pouring rain sideways all day?



Yup. I'll be there.  Cold and wet makes me work faster and eat a ton to stay warm. Otherwise hypothermia sets in if you slow too much   Stopped in at the mtn last night, its looking GREAT thanks to the ops crew!!


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## RustyGroomer (Oct 25, 2018)

I'll say it again. Some of the best Magic days are the non-powder days.  The skiing is fantastic & things are less urgent relaxed.  It's not rocket science but if you want someone to show you around Killingtime, I certainly would be happy to.


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## Newpylong (Oct 25, 2018)

Magic is blessed with all types of terrain. Known for it's trees and steeps, but, there is so much more.


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## RustyGroomer (Oct 25, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> Magic is blessed with all types of terrain. Known for it's trees and steeps, but, there is so much more.



Cue amped up radio ad voice...


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## Killingtime (Oct 25, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> I'll say it again. Some of the best Magic days are the non-powder days.  The skiing is fantastic & things are less urgent relaxed.  It's not rocket science but if you want someone to show you around Killingtime, I certainly would be happy to.



Cool RG. Beers on me.


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## ShadyGrove (Oct 25, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> I'll say it again. Some of the best Magic days are the non-powder days.  The skiing is fantastic & things are less urgent relaxed.  It's not rocket science but if you want someone to show you around Killingtime, I certainly would be happy to.



RG is your man when looking for a tour d'Magique.

I'll second his thoughts about Magic on non-pow days.  There were fantastic turns to be had days and day after snow falls last year (not just in March) because the mountain ops knows how to treat natural snow and doesn't just groom it into oblivion.  When it needs grooming they are on it, but don't destroy the experience.


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## skicub (Oct 25, 2018)

What routes are typically groomed? What runs are usually left totally natural, and which ones get a groomer touch up but aren’t always striped? I’m a decent skiier, but don’t always have the legs/ability for totally gnarly stuff. Thanks!


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## slatham (Oct 26, 2018)

skicub said:


> What routes are typically groomed? What runs are usually left totally natural, and which ones get a groomer touch up but aren’t always striped? I’m a decent skiier, but don’t always have the legs/ability for totally gnarly stuff. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Actually the real question is what is the plan this year? With more snowmaking, Green running, and more people, I would expect Brownie to have a longer "to do list", if not a friend helping?

Also, keep in mind that typically a Magic trail groomed yesterday (but not again overnight) will usually ski like other area's overnight groomed trails ski at say 10 or 11am? I've actually been meaning to ask JM and DW to consider noting this on the trail report so people know that while not freshly groomed, the trail will ski like a groomer and not a bump run....

But last year core groomers (once they had required base) were U/L Magic Carpet, Medium, Trick, Wand, Show Off, Carumba, Hocus Pocus, Kinderspiel.  Up Your Sleeve and Mystery are often groomed. I'd call Vertigo "occasional"? 

Once a man made base is down, Talisman is usually groomed at least one side (like 2/3 groomed). 

But again, not all of these trails would be done each and every night.

Or at least that's what I recall.

And you have to keep your eye open for Brownie doing something special.


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## cdskier (Oct 26, 2018)

slatham said:


> Also, keep in mind that typically a Magic trail groomed yesterday (but not again overnight) will usually ski like other area's overnight groomed trails ski at say 10 or 11am? I've actually been meaning to ask JM and DW to consider noting this on the trail report so people know that while not freshly groomed, the trail will ski like a groomer and not a bump run....



I've often thought it would be an interesting idea for a trail report in general at many areas to show the last date a trail was groomed for trails that are groomed less frequently.


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## Newpylong (Oct 26, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> Cue amped up radio ad voice...



I'll send the bill - JM knows where to send the payment.:dunce:


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## Do Work (Nov 1, 2018)

skicub said:


> What routes are typically groomed? What runs are usually left totally natural, and which ones get a groomer touch up but aren’t always striped? I’m a decent skiier, but don’t always have the legs/ability for totally gnarly stuff. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




Generally the east side is groomed out.  Upper Carpet/Medium/TTW/Wand/Trick and LMC/Sleeve if natural allows.  This year we are adding LMC to snowmaking so that should help east side flow, especially when Green is running early.  Still some figuring out to do in terms of how long LMC will take to blow in since it was never effectively used in the first place, but that's data we are eager to ascertain.  Also Kinder, Hokey Pokey, Showoff and mystery all generally get groomed once there's snow there.  

Also we will generally groom out all of Wiz, Broomstick and the switchback down black/magician.  Talisman gets groomed for races and I am really stoked to make snow on Sorcerer again- no idea when that last time that happened was.  We only do the runout on Magician.  

Killingtime, come see what all the fuss is about, you won't be sorry you did!  Magic is such a well kept secret it almost put the place out of business!  It's got it all, but it's a horse of a different color from anywhere else around, no doubt.


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## Killingtime (Nov 1, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Killingtime, come see what all the fuss is about, you won't be sorry you did!  Magic is such a well kept secret it almost put the place out of business!  It's got it all, but it's a horse of a different color from anywhere else around, no doubt.



Yep DW, I'll definitely stop in and say hello. Been looking at your trail map alot. You and JM do a good job at conveying your passion for the place. Sometimes its not always about vert and skiable acres.


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## Do Work (Nov 5, 2018)

Killingtime said:


> Sometimes its not always about vert and skiable acres.





Oh, it is...  But "on paper" and IRL are two completely different things.  It's easy to let the big guys' marketing schtick and BS trail counts infiltrate our decision making abilities.  What we have here no map could ever show, and no number could ever accurately portray- I feel it will always be a savvy skier's mountain for that very reason.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 5, 2018)

Accurate portrayal of DoWork is his natural state....


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## slatham (Nov 7, 2018)

Time very soon for Do Work to Do This! Paint it white DW.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 8, 2018)

Just waiting for 'Olde Man Winter to show up and Mother Nature to co-operate I'm sure!


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## rtjcbrown (Nov 8, 2018)

What's the word on Green? Still a go for this season?


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## slatham (Nov 8, 2018)

rtjcbrown said:


> What's the word on Green? Still a go for this season?



Yes, that is the word from the mountain. Still a few things to be finished before testing from what I understand.


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## AbominableSnowman (Nov 11, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Just waiting for 'Olde Man Winter to show up and Mother Nature to co-operate I'm sure!



Weather forecast for the upcoming week is looking favorable for snow and snow-making.


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## ShadyGrove (Nov 14, 2018)

Powder day amounts of snow in the forecast.  Time tot get the live stream back up and running!


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## crazy (Nov 14, 2018)

I have never been to Magic, but I've been hearing great things on this forum and others, so I am hoping to check it out later in the season. I want to give props to Magic for the awesome website. It's attractive and easy to navigate. Even for a smaller operation, a good website is great investment in terms of attracting customers. I also really appreciate the variety of pass options. I hope you guys have a great season.


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 14, 2018)

AbominableSnowman said:


> Weather forecast for the upcoming week is looking favorable for snow and snow-making.



New Pond Pump House just passed state of VT electrical inspection today. Now, we are just waiting on Green Mountain Power to get the juice flowing again to the line. Hopefully Thursday. Then we can blow. But looks like Ullr is getting into the act down in southern VT too with a nice dump Thurs night into Friday. Cold weather continues afterwards and 1st two weeks of December expected to be colder than originally thought. So setting up for a good start to our ski season in December! 


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 14, 2018)

crazy said:


> I have never been to Magic, but I've been hearing great things on this forum and others, so I am hoping to check it out later in the season. I want to give props to Magic for the awesome website. It's attractive and easy to navigate. Even for a smaller operation, a good website is great investment in terms of attracting customers. I also really appreciate the variety of pass options. I hope you guys have a great season.



Thank you! See you this season—be sure to introduce yourself when you come


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## Killingtime (Nov 15, 2018)

crazy said:


> I have never been to Magic, but I've been hearing great things on this forum and others, so I am hoping to check it out later in the season. I want to give props to Magic for the awesome website. It's attractive and easy to navigate. Even for a smaller operation, a good website is great investment in terms of attracting customers. I also really appreciate the variety of pass options. I hope you guys have a great season.



Yeah same with me. Hopefully sometime between Xmas and New Years to check it out if conditions are good. If not then January.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 15, 2018)

crazy said:


> *I have never been to Magic*, but I've been hearing great things on this forum and others, so I am hoping to check it out later in the season.



Wait until conditions are prime and you wont be disappointed.  Last season was the first time I was there, and yet I've already bought 4 tickets for the wife & I to spend a weekend there this year.  We liked it a lot.


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## crazy (Nov 15, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Wait until conditions are prime and you wont be disappointed.  Last season was the first time I was there, and yet I've already bought 4 tickets for the wife & I to spend a weekend there this year.  We liked it a lot.



That's great to hear! I'm tentatively planning on hitting up magic in late February or March when the base is solid and conditions are good. I'm sure it's a place that I'll want to keep coming back to after I visit :smile:.


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## slatham (Nov 16, 2018)

crazy said:


> That's great to hear! I'm tentatively planning on hitting up magic in late February or March when the base is solid and conditions are good. I'm sure it's a place that I'll want to keep coming back to after I visit :smile:.



If solid base and good conditions are your criteria you will hopefully need to move your visit date up by a month or two.....


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## slatham (Nov 18, 2018)

Web cam is now working. And as of this morning snowmaking was on too, with two guns on in the tubing area and presumably others up on Wand and Show Off. Do Work must have found another gear with all that’s been accomplished of late, and now snowmaking, on November 18th!


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## Tin (Nov 18, 2018)

slatham said:


> Web cam is now working. And as of this morning snowmaking was on too, with two guns on in the tubing area and presumably others up on Wand and Show Off. Do Work must have found another gear with all that’s been accomplished of late, and now snowmaking, on November 18th!



BIG base and skied it the past two days. Do Work and Jamaicaman (and ma nature) are getting it done!


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## The Sneak (Nov 18, 2018)

What is the latest on the new lifts?


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## WoodCore (Nov 18, 2018)




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## prsboogie (Nov 19, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> What is the latest on the new lifts?


New LIFT! Black has been discussed several times that it won't be ready until next fall because of state approval.

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## machski (Nov 19, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> New LIFT! Black has been discussed several times that it won't be ready until next fall because of state approval.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


Yes, but I think they were referring to Green chair.  That is suppose to allow for earlier openings and this year, Ma Nature would allow for that if Green is ready.

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## djspookman (Nov 19, 2018)

Tin said:


> BIG base and skied it the past two days. Do Work and Jamaicaman (and ma nature) are getting it done!


I can confirm this as well.. was on mountain working all weekend, snow is a-plenty, sliding was fun, and DO-WORK is working hard!
D


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 19, 2018)

machski said:


> Yes, but I think they were referring to Green chair.  That is suppose to allow for earlier openings and this year, Ma Nature would allow for that if Green is ready.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Green lift is going about as slowly as the snowmaking right now...Marginal temps and high humidity means no snowmaking again until Wednesday night and then for just two days. The lift contractor has not given me a firm absolute ready date but we are pushing for 12/1. Finalizing electric drive set up and wiring to be able to operate lift and put on the chairs. Then load testing and state inspection. 

What holiday, lol?


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 19, 2018)

It must feel pretty good to FINALLY be seeing the the light at the end of the tunnel, on this project, considering how long it has been in progress.


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## IceEidolon (Nov 19, 2018)

That install started in 2002, right? (Granted under different management.)

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## JamaicaMan (Nov 19, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> It must feel pretty good to FINALLY be seeing the the light at the end of the tunnel, on this project, considering how long it has been in progress.



Yes. Pretty much a total rebuild. So the wallet is a lot lighter but it will be a fine lift in a couple weeks! 


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 19, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> That install started in 2002, right? (Granted under different management.)
> 
> Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk



Yes 2002. Needless to say a decent portion of that lift was pretty much useless all these years later...


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## ShadyGrove (Nov 20, 2018)

Another 6-8" fell at Magic today.


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## The Sneak (Nov 20, 2018)

machski said:


> Yes, but I think they were referring to Green chair.  That is suppose to allow for earlier openings and this year, Ma Nature would allow for that if Green is ready.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Correct, thank you. I wasn’t sure if I had missed a status update re Black for 2020 and or when Green is expected to be ready. While I am not a local or regular, I do ski Magic sometimes and enjoy it very much. It’s like a larger Berkshire East, another place I enjoy.


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## slatham (Nov 21, 2018)

Little something special coming up this weekend. Check out web site or social media......


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## slatham (Nov 21, 2018)

Little something special coming up this weekend. Check out web site or social media......


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 21, 2018)

Magic update


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## skifree (Nov 21, 2018)

Hell yeah!!!!


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## Smellytele (Nov 21, 2018)

Hmmm. May have to indulge...


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 23, 2018)

IN! 

wasn't going to ski this weekend but cannot pass up magic opening day with ungroomed powder all over.


----------



## Euler (Nov 23, 2018)

I'll be there from9-noon!


----------



## NYDB (Nov 23, 2018)

Came down talisman and some other stuff this morning.  Coverage was insane on tali.  Deep turns. 
 Definite windbuff and a crust in places.  Very supportive snow.  Tali was pretty deep.  East side low angle trees fun. Snow much better in woods.  Hit a few things which is to be expected.  

Those were my 2 runs


I think the natural snow that is there on the trails will actually ski better when it gets tracked out a bit.  







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## Kleetus (Nov 23, 2018)

Was at Gore today and lots of stuff opened on natural that skied awesome. Was going to head back there tomorrow as I have a season pass there, but Magic is making me completely rethink that strategy. 

Natural is skiing insane for November. I can't even believe I'm skiing on only natural in November!

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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 24, 2018)

So this is epic 

NOVEMBER


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 24, 2018)




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## Kleetus (Nov 24, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> So this is epic
> 
> NOVEMBER
> 
> ...


It was insane! 1000% was the right call to head to Magic today!

To all the Magic crew and volunteers, thanks so much for making this happen! It was a day to remember, and will not soon be forgot. Skiing powder with coverage like this good in November is insane!

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## Killingtime (Nov 24, 2018)

Was at the World Cup today and the Magic Ski Race Team was there. Spoke to a gentleman with a Magic jacket on who gave me some tips about checking it out for the first time.


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## Smellytele (Nov 24, 2018)

Great day there today! The ungroomed stuff was off the charts. Got there for opening bell. Got the 11th chair. Geoff was out greeting everyone in line. Thanking us for being there. I thanked him for letting us be there! The groomed stuff was okay but a little like chocolate chip ice cream in spots.


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## slatham (Nov 24, 2018)

Special day for sure. Big congrats and thanks to JM and Do Work (and Brownie, Travis, Tim, Jeremey, etc) that made this happen. Oh, and Ullr and the obvioulsy successful job done by the Ullr fest crew led by MNIAW.



Entrance to Goniff. This is November ?


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 24, 2018)

back to Brooklyn. i was second chair. I’m in their video. What a day


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## Kleetus (Nov 24, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> back to Brooklyn. i was second chair. I’m in their video. What a day


I was in the first (blue pants guy). Does it matter? Nope! I think everybody got plenty of Powder today regardless of what chair they were in!

Was good chatting with you and your crew in the lift line. Had no idea it was an AZ'er. If our paths ever cross again we'll have to make some turns. 

Again, the work done by Magic and all the volunteers to open early and get the mountain ready for the season is much appreciated. Huge thank you to them and here's hoping this is only the beginning of a great snowy season!

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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 24, 2018)

Ah right on. I figured there were AZ people on hand.

Can’t believe how few people showed up for what was a really memorable classic magic day


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 24, 2018)

I've definitely seen AZ stickers on helmuts, but I never ask as I feel like that's tool'ish (which I'm sure it really isnt). lol


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## urungus (Nov 24, 2018)

I was there too!  What an awesome day!! Pretty much everything was open except for lower Wizard and Lower Magic Carpet, amazing for November.  Everyone I talked to was in such good spirits.  Conditions were so nice and fluffy on the ungroomed runs that I got up the nerve to go down Witch and Black Line for the first time ever.  Witch was no problem but the last ledge on Black Line was a bit of challenge for me ...


----------



## urungus (Nov 24, 2018)

Here is the line for the Red Chair


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 24, 2018)

Just right...


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2018)

thats me in the blue jacket. and lol at a line entirely composed of men staring down the one woman. she ripped too by the way. i think she works for magic? saw her under red getting it good.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2018)

Killingtime said:


> Was at the World Cup today and the Magic Ski Race Team was there. Spoke to a gentleman with a Magic jacket on who gave me some tips about checking it out for the first time.



best advice he could have given you was to stop spectating at k and drive an hour south to participate in an 80% open terrain fully ungroomed opening day.

the conditions at magic yesterday would have kicked the crap out of most eastern resort skiers. thick quad burning powder. unexposed rocks stumps and obstacles. huge mandatory water bars. lesser ski areas would not let the public ski this stuff (save for MRG and maybe sugarbush). magic is special.


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> the conditions at magic yesterday would have kicked the crap out of most eastern resort skiers. thick quad burning powder. unexposed rocks stumps and obstacles. huge mandatory water bars. lesser ski areas would not let the public ski this stuff (save for MRG and maybe sugarbush). magic is special.



Agree but would add a few places that would -Wildcat, Cannon, Black of Maine and maybe a few others.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2018)

hey magic people - what y'all building at top of red? bathroom? patrol shack? snacks?


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> hey magic people - what y'all building at top of red? bathroom? patrol shack? snacks?



I believe it is a Patrol shack. The old one was by the black


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 25, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I've definitely seen AZ stickers on helmuts, but I never ask as I feel like that's tool'ish (which I'm sure it really isnt). lol



"Oh... you're that guy?!" :-o

Lol! Probably most of us would rather make a better first impression, than what some of the antics on here have been over the years!


----------



## NYDB (Nov 25, 2018)

White saturday was a special day that ill remember for a long time.  Toured my son around all day.  We had a blast until our legs gave out around 2.  Stoke level was high.  Last run was fresh lines through a on map tree run.  

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## Kleetus (Nov 25, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Agree but would add a few places that would -Wildcat, Cannon, Black of Maine and maybe a few others.


Add Gore to that list as well, at least so far this season. Stuff they had open on natural had all of the above mentioned for Magic Saturday.

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## slatham (Nov 25, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> best advice he could have given you was to stop spectating at k and drive an hour south to participate in an 80% open terrain fully ungroomed opening day.
> 
> the conditions at magic yesterday would have kicked the crap out of most eastern resort skiers. thick quad burning powder. unexposed rocks stumps and obstacles. huge mandatory water bars. lesser ski areas would not let the public ski this stuff (save for MRG and maybe sugarbush). magic is special.



Hhhhmmmm, did we have this conversation on Trick Saturday???


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## urungus (Nov 27, 2018)

Email from Geoff:

Bruce Almighty! 

We never imagined this storm would be quite this huge. But, winter storm "Bruce" delivered a mighty wallop last night into today. 14" heavy snow at the base with 19" of fresh powder up top! And, some more light snow in the forecast for Wednesday. 

With all the new snow we are adapting our operating plans to open even earlier than Saturday as we want to give folks as much opportunity to enjoy Ullr's bounty as possible. As we were without power, internet and phone all day today, there was no way to be feasibly open tomorrow (Wednesday), so the Red Chair will spin at 9am for a Thursday 19 inch full-on Powder Day and then Magic stays open for Friday and into the "opening" weekend--there's just so much snow, and with our prior base, the entire mountain will be OPEN including all the woods! (In NOVEMBER!)

Take a look at the picture taken late today (below)--how often do you not see any rock showing on the steep ledges and cliff faces of Black Line and Black Magic?!

The extra day without ski traffic should also get some of the moisture out of the heavy snow. We will have our regular $74 adult ticket pricing for the Powder Day and Friday-Sunday with all our ski trails and glades open.


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## IceEidolon (Nov 27, 2018)

100% by Christmas is noteworthy. 100% now is unheard of. This is amazing.

Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk


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## tnt1234 (Nov 27, 2018)

Wow...incredible.

Trying to get there for Saturday, but hopes are fading.  Hunter or Bell might be the best I can do, and they both didn't get rope dropping amounts.  

Oh well - someday I'll get to Magic.


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## urungus (Nov 27, 2018)

Any comments on the difficulty of Green Line or Slide of Hans?  Thinking of giving those a try this weekend.  There’s at least one cliff on Green Line if I recall correctly?  Can it be skirted?  How does it compare to Black Line, last cliff on that was a bit of a challenge for me.


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## ss20 (Nov 27, 2018)

Friday at Magic is tempting...very tempting...Killington with laps on Canyon is also tempting...just the fact that this is even a debate in my mind on November 27th is AWESOME!!!


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 27, 2018)

urungus said:


> The extra day without ski traffic should also get some of the moisture out of the heavy snow. We will have our regular $74 adult ticket pricing for the Powder Day and Friday-Sunday with *all our ski trails and glades open.*



I saw this writing-on-the-wall, figuring they'd probably be 100% open*, so I snagged $48 tix for Saturday & already booked lodging figuring hotel/motel increases will be coming later this week.  

Sadly, it wont be the powder day I thought it would, but at least I'm happy to know Magic'll make extra cash Thursday & Friday.

*wasnt sure about the woods though, but was encouraged due to trip-reports here


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## makimono (Nov 27, 2018)

urungus said:


> Any comments on the difficulty of Green Line or Slide of Hans?  Thinking of giving those a try this weekend.  There’s at least one cliff on Green Line if I recall correctly?  Can it be skirted?  How does it compare to Black Line, last cliff on that was a bit of a challenge for me.


 They're both legit expert trails, steep and ungroomed. Yes you can skirt the green line cliff skiers left. If you're at all tentative then just go left and don't drop it, it's not huge but it's more technical than Black, and steep right away so you will accelerate in a hurry. 

Awesome that mother nature is smiling on all the hard work Magic's put in, you guys deserve this, we all do! I'll try to make it up Sunday


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## The Sneak (Nov 28, 2018)

I am def more of “Wachusett Expert” than a “Magic Expert”, skill-wise...and I stay hard left at that spot and take my time.


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## Do Work (Nov 28, 2018)

urungus said:


> Any comments on the difficulty of Green Line or Slide of Hans?  Thinking of giving those a try this weekend.  There’s at least one cliff on Green Line if I recall correctly?  Can it be skirted?  How does it compare to Black Line, last cliff on that was a bit of a challenge for me.




Both are non groomed, steep and undulating.  Hans is more of a double fall line roller type run with fewer surprises.  Greenline is a steep run with a cliff band at the top, but it is not a mandatory send- if you stay far left you can pick your way around it.  Green has also been widened last year, so there is more to love than ever.




ss20 said:


> Friday at Magic is tempting...very tempting...Killington with laps on Canyon is also tempting...just the fact that this is even a debate in my mind on November 27th is AWESOME!!!




K reported 8" iirc, and will have 30x the skiers.  That decision would be a non-decision for me personally but I'll be the last person to tell you what to do with your time and money.   




BenedictGomez said:


> I saw this writing-on-the-wall, figuring they'd probably be 100% open*, so I snagged $48 tix for Saturday & already booked lodging figuring hotel/motel increases will be coming later this week.
> 
> Sadly, it wont be the powder day I thought it would, but at least I'm happy to know Magic'll make extra cash Thursday & Friday.
> 
> *wasnt sure about the woods though, but was encouraged due to trip-reports here




Well played sir, well played :beer:.  The woods are in rare form right now, knee deep everywhere and a great base.  I would wager that there will still be plenty to go around for the weekend, doubly so if you track down Rusty Groomer and follow him like a shadow haha.  Everything above the race shack on Showoff is significantly lighter and drier, especially now that we're giving some time for the moisture to leach out- consistency has been described as "more Chugach Velvet than Sierra Cement" with the runouts and extreme lower mountain glades being a little sticky still.


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## NYDB (Nov 28, 2018)

Can't make thursday 

Can make fri and sat!  :beer:   mmmmm....Powder and prime rib.  

Sloppy seconds and thirds are some of the best days at Magic in my experience.


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## Do Work (Nov 28, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> Can't make thursday
> 
> Can make fri and sat!  :beer:   mmmmm....Powder and prime rib.
> 
> Sloppy seconds and thirds are some of the best days at Magic in my experience.




Powder and prime rib is a must- the only hard decision involved on a day like that is First Drop vs. Fiddlehead vs Conehead.  Decisions, decisions, man...  Nobody said this would be easy! ;-) :beer:


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## Harvey (Nov 28, 2018)

Story and a few pics from Saturday, including this one of the prime rib:


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## crazy (Nov 28, 2018)

I was thinking about going on Saturday, but because the mountain is opening tomorrow and a lot of stuff will be tracked out by Saturday I am going to hold off until later in the season.


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## slatham (Nov 28, 2018)

crazy said:


> I was thinking about going on Saturday, but because the mountain is opening tomorrow and a lot of stuff will be tracked out by Saturday I am going to hold off until later in the season.



This only makes sense if somehow you have been granted 1 and only 1 day at Magic this winter. Otherwise the skiing on Saturday is going to be off the hook, if not a "powder" day. But there will be some of that too if you look hard enough.....


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## Harvey (Nov 28, 2018)

crazy said:


> I was thinking about going on Saturday, but because the mountain is opening tomorrow and a lot of stuff will be tracked out by Saturday I am going to hold off until later in the season.



Not sure it makes sense even then. Where will you go on Saturday that is less tracked?


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 28, 2018)

Somewhere more tracked & less rad.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 28, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Story and a few pics from Saturday, including this one of the prime rib:



That looks really good. Sadly, I dont think I can be up there before 9:30pm on Friday and apparently the restaurant closes at 9pm.  My arteries get a reprieve.


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## icecoast1 (Nov 28, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Not sure it makes sense even then. Where will you go on Saturday that is less tracked?



Nowhere


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 28, 2018)

Mountain Ops doing “whatever it takes” to open tomorrow!


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## slatham (Nov 28, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> View attachment 24207
> 
> Mountain Ops doing “whatever it takes” to open tomorrow!
> 
> ...



Dream Team


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 28, 2018)

.

deleted bc i misread the quoted post and my snarky quip was rendered irrelevant.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 28, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> I am def more of “Wachusett Expert” than a “Magic Expert”, skill-wise...



and the award for the most cringeworthy sentence i've read today goes to...


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## MG Skier (Nov 28, 2018)

Will you guys groom a bit by Saturday or are you aiming for au-natural....?


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 28, 2018)

MG Skier said:


> Will you guys groom a bit by Saturday or are you aiming for au-natural....?



We will groom a little more each day...


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## crazy (Nov 28, 2018)

Harvey said:


> Not sure it makes sense even then. Where will you go on Saturday that is less tracked?



Sorry if I came across as ungrateful, I'm sure the skiing will be amazing on Saturday. It's just a very long drive for me. I was thinking it would be worth it if everything was untracked (except for the uphillers), but I think I'll stick to somewhere closer to home instead of Saturday. Again, I'm sure that Magic will be great and I hope you have a great time. I will make the trek there at some other point when conditions call for it :smile:


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## Harvey (Nov 29, 2018)

Sorry if I came off snarky too. Didn't fully think it through.

I may do some insane driving TBD.


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## Smellytele (Nov 29, 2018)

crazy said:


> Sorry if I came across as ungrateful, I'm sure the skiing will be amazing on Saturday. It's just a very long drive for me. I was thinking it would be worth it if everything was untracked (except for the uphillers), but I think I'll stick to somewhere closer to home instead of Saturday. Again, I'm sure that Magic will be great and I hope you have a great time. I will make the trek there at some other point when conditions call for it :smile:



So you must live in Central to Northern VT because Magic is closer to anything else


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## slatham (Nov 29, 2018)

crazy said:


> Sorry if I came across as ungrateful, I'm sure the skiing will be amazing on Saturday. It's just a very long drive for me. I was thinking it would be worth it if everything was untracked (except for the uphillers), but I think I'll stick to somewhere closer to home instead of Saturday. Again, I'm sure that Magic will be great and I hope you have a great time. I will make the trek there at some other point when conditions call for it :smile:



AH, that makes sense. Thought you were passing on Magic to do something a bit less logical, like ski Flatton.....


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## crazy (Nov 29, 2018)

slatham said:


> AH, that makes sense. Thought you were passing on Magic to do something a bit less logical, like ski Flatton.....



Never. LOL! Whatever I ski will be closer to home but not even in the same league as Magic. Think Wachusett, maybe Loon


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## ss20 (Nov 29, 2018)

Anyone get out there today?


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 29, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Anyone get out there today?







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## cdskier (Nov 29, 2018)

JamaicaMan said:


> View attachment 24216View attachment 24217View attachment 24218



Wow...looks terrible. Why bother? :-D


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 29, 2018)

Haven't been out this year, so flying blind on debating ski choice for wife on Saturday, is there enough snow on intermediates (she doesnt tree ski) to warrant 98 or just stick with her 74s?   

Cant say I've ever had to ponder this decision in November before.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 30, 2018)

74s are NEVER the right decision. ever.


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## Do Work (Nov 30, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Haven't been out this year, so flying blind on debating ski choice for wife on Saturday, is there enough snow on intermediates (she doesnt tree ski) to warrant 95 or just stick with her 74s?
> 
> Cant say I've ever had to ponder this decision in November before.




I was on 138s yesterday.  Wide is good.


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## NYDB (Nov 30, 2018)

11am today.  Still plenty of fresh to be had.  

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## BenedictGomez (Nov 30, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> 74s are NEVER the right decision. ever.



That's just silly, for an intermediate who doesn't venture off trails 74 is a solid choice for probably 85% of days. 

The weakness is when there are powder conditions or even more than 6" of fresh snow, hence why I bought her 98s as well.



NY DirtBag said:


> 11am today.  Still plenty of fresh to be had.



Guess that answers that question.


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 30, 2018)

Yesterday...


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 30, 2018)

nice, i had a similarly excellent day at mad river today. smuggler's tomorrow for the madonna opening.


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## Euler (Nov 30, 2018)

I'm psyched to get out again tomorrow.  Any word on Green Lift opening?


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## Do Work (Nov 30, 2018)

RustyGroomer said:


> Yesterday...




Soooo nice!  The sendability of this snow is off the charts, the mountain is still skiing like a dream!


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## JamaicaMan (Nov 30, 2018)

Euler said:


> I'm psyched to get out again tomorrow.  Any word on Green Lift opening?



Yes: $$$$$$$


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## sugarbushskier (Dec 1, 2018)

First day out yesterday and felt like I slept for a few weekends and was automatically transported back to the superb conditions from last spring as there is so much and so dependable snow!!  Honestly I felt pretty good considering the 6 months off, but this snow is hero snow and it gives you confidence.

Don't miss out!


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## Euler (Dec 1, 2018)

December 1st!!!!  Unbelievable soft deep snow everywhere.   Good sized crowd for early season, I thought.  Lot B was pretty close to full.  The whole top half of the mountain was coated in crazy,needly ice crytals....maybe frozen fog?


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## slatham (Dec 2, 2018)

Solid coverage on Sorcerer. The whole mountain looked like this - great conditions for any day of the year, but historical for Dec 1.

Euler, that’s “Rime Ice” and your exactly right, formed by super cooled water vapor (frozen fog) latching onto any cold object in its path. The formations yesterday were pretty amazing - it must have been foggy up there for many for days.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 2, 2018)

Euler said:


> The whole top half of the mountain was coated in crazy,needly ice crytals....maybe frozen fog?



That was very cool.  Early in the morning it even covered all the chairs with roughly 3/4 inch points.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 2, 2018)

slatham said:


> *The whole mountain looked like this* - great conditions for any day of the year, but historical for Dec 1.



Looking down Broomstick late in the day.


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## MG Skier (Dec 3, 2018)

I had my first day out on Saturday. Groomers were great and once my legs woke up, the natural trails were a blast! I didn't pop into the woods other than skiers right of Red. Magic team was busy with Ski Patrol building a summit and work was ongoing at Green Lift! Base lodge looks great by the way!!


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## Do Work (Dec 4, 2018)

slatham said:


> View attachment 24247
> 
> Solid coverage on Sorcerer. The whole mountain looked like this - great conditions for any day of the year, but historical for Dec 1.
> 
> Euler, that’s “Rime Ice” and your exactly right, formed by super cooled water vapor (frozen fog) latching onto any cold object in its path. The formations yesterday were pretty amazing - it must have been foggy up there for many for days.





I'm pretty sure that specific type is called Hoar Frost.  

In any case, I've never seen more of it in my life.  It grew for 3 days!  Looked like it had snowed more there was so much of it.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 5, 2018)

Do Work said:


> I'm pretty sure that specific type is called Hoar Frost.
> 
> In any case, I've never seen more of it in my life.  It grew for 3 days!  Looked like it had snowed more there was so much of it.



and that's one to grow on!



> So, what’s the difference between hoar frost and rime ice?  It all has to do with how the ice crystals formed: hoar develops when water vapor freezes, going directly from the gaseous state to the solid, while rime forms where supercooled liquid water droplets freeze on contact with cold surfaces.  If it goes from gas to solid, it’s hoar frost.  If it goes from liquid to solid, it’s rime.


----------



## makimono (Dec 6, 2018)

That Ski The East vid that was filmed last March just dropped!    what a day, I was pitted for about 10 minutes in pretty much the exact spot that Noah says "it's too deep!"


----------



## WoodCore (Dec 9, 2018)

Props to the Crew on the Guns and Hoses!!! In my 35+ years of skiing Magic can't remember seeing such a display of snowmaking firepower. The new "kitty cat" is also laying some nice tracks.


----------



## 180 (Dec 9, 2018)

Sick!



makimono said:


> that ski the east vid that was filmed last march just dropped!    What a day, i was pitted for about 10 minutes in pretty much the exact spot that noah says "it's too deep!"


----------



## Do Work (Dec 10, 2018)

WoodCore said:


> Props to the Crew on the Guns and Hoses!!! In my 35+ years of skiing Magic can't remember seeing such a display of snowmaking firepower. The new "kitty cat" is also laying some nice tracks.
> 
> View attachment 24295
> 
> View attachment 24296




The whole Ops team has been crushing it this season.  Can’t say enough nice things about them and how hard everyone is working to improve every aspect of Operations.  Truly changing the game for Magic and her fans to be this far blown in before Xmas.


----------



## Euler (Dec 10, 2018)

More props and thanks to Magic's mountain ops crew.  I had a great morning there yesterday.  Being able to ski on both east and west sides after last week's weather was impressive.  Talisman and Sorcerer were both skiing great, and there are several solid routes down the east side as well.  Conditions were firm and fast, but definitely not icy or even "boilerplate".  When I arrived at 8:45 Lot A was half full, and when I left at 1:00 lot B was 3/4 full.  Looks like slow, steady progress continues to be made on the Green lift.  Hopefully that second lift will be ready before the first really busy day.   Thanks again to team Magic!


----------



## Do Work (Dec 13, 2018)

Euler said:


> More props and thanks to Magic's mountain ops crew.  I had a great morning there yesterday.  Being able to ski on both east and west sides after last week's weather was impressive.  Talisman and Sorcerer were both skiing great, and there are several solid routes down the east side as well.  Conditions were firm and fast, but definitely not icy or even "boilerplate".  When I arrived at 8:45 Lot A was half full, and when I left at 1:00 lot B was 3/4 full.  Looks like slow, steady progress continues to be made on the Green lift.  Hopefully that second lift will be ready before the first really busy day.   Thanks again to team Magic!




Thank you for the kind words!  We are hoping to have all the priority East Side trails blown in this week and be on to the West Side trails before Xmas.  We have NEVER done that this fast and while the weather has been a huge help, this team is KILLING IT right now.  SO incredibly proud of them and all their hard work, it is truly changing the game here at Magic for the better!


----------



## slatham (Dec 13, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Thank you for the kind words!  We are hoping to have all the priority East Side trails blown in this week and be on to the West Side trails before Xmas.  We have NEVER done that this fast and while the weather has been a huge help, this team is KILLING IT right now.  SO incredibly proud of them and all their hard work, it is truly changing the game here at Magic for the better!



Incredible progress! To even be THINKING about guns on the West Side pre-Christmas is historic. The guns and hoses crew will get a chance for some rest this weekend but there's likely a decent (if short) window or two next week. Now if we can just spin up a Christmas miracle snow storm....


----------



## drjeff (Dec 13, 2018)

slatham said:


> Incredible progress! To even be THINKING about guns on the West Side pre-Christmas is historic. The guns and hoses crew will get a chance for some rest this weekend but there's likely a decent (if short) window or two next week. Now if we can just spin up a Christmas miracle snow storm....



There's a way overly eager FB wannabe meteorologists blog that I follow (USAwx), that is starting to get some excitement about a roughly Christmas time storm potential brewing. Take it with a grain of salt, as while about 3 weeks out they were talking about the storm that just dumped all the snow over North Carolina (of course early on they had it as more of a Northeast rather then mid-Atlantic location), but I have found them to be decent at general trends a few weeks out


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 13, 2018)

drjeff said:


> There's a way overly eager FB wannabe meteorologists blog that I follow (USAwx), that is starting to get some excitement about a roughly Christmas time storm potential brewing. Take it with a grain of salt, as while about 3 weeks out they were talking about the storm that just dumped all the snow over North Carolina (of course early on they had it as more of a Northeast rather then mid-Atlantic location), but I have found them to be decent at general trends a few weeks out



the gfs already has already been showing the xmas storm for days.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 14, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> the gfs already has already been showing the xmas storm for days.
> 
> View attachment 24314



Ain't no mo...


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## slatham (Dec 14, 2018)

The models are doing a VERY poor job right now, even out a few days, much less well over a week away. And the GFS is typically worse than the Euro, but even the Euro has been poor of late. Remember a week ago? It was going to be warm and rain way into Ontario. Now it looks like it barely gets to NYC.

Better to take the long range with a grain of salt.....


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 14, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Ain't no mo...



The models are not reliable 10 days out.   That said, the conditions to have a storm in that Christmas timeframe are still there.  What the models display on the 18th or 19th will be key.


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## mriceyman (Dec 15, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Ain't no mo...



The gfs is no more jn a month or so.. start using the fv3 which will take its place 


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 15, 2018)

It's the 21st that doesn't look that good at the moment...


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## NYDB (Dec 15, 2018)

Great soft conditions by lunchtime today.  Alot of fun. now we need some snow.  

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## drjeff (Dec 19, 2018)

GREAT NEWS in a post on Magic's FB page today where Geoff Hathaway replied to a question about if the Green will be ready for Christmas week by saying that they're planning on scheduling the load test for the state this Saturday!


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## IceEidolon (Dec 19, 2018)

That's fantastic news!

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## MG Skier (Dec 20, 2018)

drjeff said:


> GREAT NEWS in a post on Magic's FB page today where Geoff Hathaway replied to a question about if the Green will be ready for Christmas week by saying that they're planning on scheduling the load test for the state this Saturday!



Way to go Magic! Not that it would be exciting to watch but cool to witness????
Bring on the cardboard boxes lined with trash bags......I hope there is a hydrant close by!


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## WoodCore (Dec 27, 2018)

Wonder how the load test for Green went today? Regardless, guns are hammering Tali!


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## Do Work (Dec 28, 2018)

WoodCore said:


> Wonder how the load test for Green went today? Regardless, guns are hammering Tali!
> 
> View attachment 24353





Load test passed with flying colors .  Still a decent punch list of things to do before she's ready for the public, but everything worked exactly as it should.  She's right around the corner!  :beer:


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## urungus (Dec 28, 2018)

Do Work said:


> Load test passed without flying colors



WithOUT flying colors?  Hope that is a typo...


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 28, 2018)

urungus said:


> WithOUT flying colors?  Hope that is a typo...



I'm going with the assumption that it is, as positive the rest of the statement is. Won't be long now!


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## Do Work (Dec 28, 2018)

urungus said:


> WithOUT flying colors?  Hope that is a typo...




Hahaha yes it was!


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## slatham (Jan 1, 2019)

Must say I am impressed with how Magic survived the Christmas rains. Thinking back to prior years I am reminded that the likely scenario would be a thin, WROD Tick to Showoff, plus tubing. MAYBE Hocus Pocus. Instead they had Upper Carpet, Medium, Trick, Wand, Show Off, Carumba, Hocus Pocus, terrain park, learning area, and tubing. All with solid depth, mostly edge to edge, groomed up and skiing nicely. They also put some snow on lower Black Line/Upper Hocus Pocus for the "Tuck it" comp. 

And then, prior to New Years, a fully blown, edge to edge, rockless, "whale of time" Talisman! Just a great performance and putting Magic onto a much higher level of reliable skiing.

Rumor is they're not done, with lower carpet next to support flow from the new Green Chair, which looks sweet and is apparently very very close to spinning. 

Now we just need Mother Nature to deliver some snow once again.....

Talisman to close the year: 12/31/18:


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## thetrailboss (Jan 1, 2019)

Happy to see that the Green is FINALLY complete.  Looks like they are turning things around there.  Good work!


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 2, 2019)

slatham said:


> Must say I am impressed with how Magic survived the Christmas rains. Thinking back to prior years I am reminded that the likely scenario would be a thin, WROD Tick to Showoff, plus tubing. MAYBE Hocus Pocus. Instead they had Upper Carpet, Medium, Trick, Wand, Show Off, Carumba, Hocus Pocus, terrain park, learning area, and tubing. All with solid depth, mostly edge to edge, groomed up and skiing nicely. They also put some snow on lower Black Line/Upper Hocus Pocus for the "Tuck it" comp.
> 
> And then, prior to New Years, a fully blown, edge to edge, rockless, "whale of time" Talisman! Just a great performance and putting Magic onto a much higher level of reliable skiing.
> 
> ...



So true! Given the warm up before Xmas there is a good chance that under prior ownership they wouldn't have been able to open (like the year before new ownership). I’ve got to handed it to JamicaMan, DoWork, and the support of their investor group.  Their performance has been superb.  

You can't control the weather, but they took what they could control, namely, building a snowmaking system, fixing, replacing, and acquiring lifts, plus recruiting a great staff and found a way to make money from ski school, merchandise store, bar, and concerts over a critical week. 

As the big capex projects (pond, green chair, quad) come to completion over the next 12-18 mlnths, I only see them getting better and better. 




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## ShadyGrove (Jan 2, 2019)

I heard directly from a few new guests at Magic that were incredibly pleased with their experience.  I heard 2nd hand of several other stories where skiers from Mt Snow, Stratton, and even the Hermitage that had great days at Magic, even given the difficult conditions.  As a regular, it can be difficult to remember how the big resorts have such a different feeling and how the community based vibe of Magic makes it a really special place.


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## urungus (Jan 2, 2019)

Just received the following email update, after 16 years Saturday is the big day!!

the new Green Lift is now ready for final inspection on Friday--and, if all goes well, it will be spinning for every one on Saturday morning. So come join us to celebrate its inaugural voyage to the mid-mountain on Saturday! To help keep the party going, we've also lined up an award-winning rock-blues band out of Providence, The Silks, for our Saturday night Black Line Music Series concert. Amazingly, there's no cover for The Silks thanks to our neighbors Muelemans' Craft Draughts, rk Miles, Vermont Foam Insulation and Harpoon.

According to this site, construction of the Green Chair began in 2003!  https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/viewlift.php?id=838


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## Newpylong (Jan 2, 2019)

Awesome. Congrats JM,DW and the whole Magic crew.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 2, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> Awesome. Congrats JM,DW and the whole Magic crew.



Thanks everyone. The feedback mean a lot. We’ll keep grinding and tackling all the issues a small business has to deal with, especially a ski area in southern Vt while staying true to our independent, throwback, ski community vision. Most importantly, we have a crew that will do “whatever it takes” to deliver the best product we can in a sometimes difficult environment lol. Think snow!


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## Do Work (Jan 3, 2019)

slatham said:


> Must say I am impressed with how Magic survived the Christmas rains. Thinking back to prior years I am reminded that the likely scenario would be a thin, WROD Tick to Showoff, plus tubing. MAYBE Hocus Pocus. Instead they had Upper Carpet, Medium, Trick, Wand, Show Off, Carumba, Hocus Pocus, terrain park, learning area, and tubing. All with solid depth, mostly edge to edge, groomed up and skiing nicely. They also put some snow on lower Black Line/Upper Hocus Pocus for the "Tuck it" comp.
> 
> And then, prior to New Years, a fully blown, edge to edge, rockless, "whale of time" Talisman! Just a great performance and putting Magic onto a much higher level of reliable skiing.
> 
> ...





Rumor:  Confirmed

We will definitely be going to Lower Carpet for the first time in about 20 years on the next weather window.  Given that the Green Chair *should* be good to go for this weekend, it will be a key avenue for beginners and also to open up a lot more acreage on that side of the mountain in general.  I can't wait to bury all those water bars!  

After that it will likely be back to blow in Sorcerer.  We really want to get that filled in to provide another way down the West side when Tali is closed for racing (even though that's not very often) and to show off the fruits of our labor in repairing it.  I think it will be a wonderful trail, and is exceptional at keeping what snow it has.  Should be a one-and-done.  

We were very proud to offer Talisman before the new year, which to my knowledge had never been done before.  Also our ability to weather and repair after big rain events is definitely apparent after we got what, 8" of rain so far?  The days of Magic being at the total mercy of nature is thankfully coming to a close- although a little natural would be nice- and our ability to run and gun our way to a good trail count gets stronger every day.


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## Newpylong (Jan 3, 2019)

DW when is the last time Wizard has seen snow made on it T2B?

Do you ever foresee repairing/using (forgot what you said the deal with that line was) Witch to Black in lean snow years?


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 3, 2019)

I believe Wizard was blown in during the 11/12 season, although not until February. I do know that it cost a fortune with the old leaky system and the length of the trail. 


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 3, 2019)

Great job. Admitted the rain made the skiing fairly crummy in general. However it was remarkable to see all the new people and they were really having fun. Importantly, the place was jumping and no doubt making money. The whales on Talisman made my week. Really fun skiing. An amazing amount of snow was put down and I hope to hit it again tomorrow afternoon.


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## slatham (Jan 3, 2019)

Magicsnowboard said:


> I believe Wizard was blown in during the 11/12 season, although not until February. I do know that it cost a fortune with the old leaky system and the length of the trail.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Yes, while I can't recall the year I do recall Wizard seeing snowmaking back in the Jim Sullivan era.

Sorcerer I believe never in the post close era, though there had been rumors/plans....


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## WoodCore (Jan 3, 2019)

I don't think DW got up to patch the Sorcerer leaks and cut the brush back until summer 2016/2017? Pretty sure the guns haven't run post close although I do have a distant foggy memory of skiing the Sorcerer with full blown man-made cover, just can't remember if it was pre or post close.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 4, 2019)

Talisman was so nice today. Complete coverage and very consistent. A testament to snow making strategy and grooming given New Years Day rain. Not a spec of ice (unlike the rinklike chute on Wizard on the way down). In some ways it is good if the chute is all ice because I don't feel guilty side slipping a bit. Sharp edges helped but it was great today.

Congrats Do Work. Can't wait for Sorceror.


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## urungus (Jan 4, 2019)

According to new post on Magic’s Facebook page, there will be a “Launch Party” for the Green Chair Saturday at 1pm.


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## NYDB (Jan 5, 2019)

Fireworks, free booze, soft snow ,and new lifts.  Not a bad day.  

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## drjeff (Jan 5, 2019)

A little less liquid falling from the sky in the morning wouldn't of been a bad topper! I was across the valley at Bromley for a race with my daughter, and was mighty happy for full on Gore-tex this morning for sure! 

Awesome accomplishment by Magic to get the Green spinning!

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## JoeB-Z (Jan 5, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> Fireworks, free booze, soft snow ,and new lifts.  Not a bad day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using AlpineZone mobile app



And Talisman was like ice cream. The management and grooming of that slope this week was amazing. It will even be good tomorrow when I suppose it freezes up a bit. Enjoyed my first ride up Green. Green Line is not a secret anymore!


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## Do Work (Jan 6, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> DW when is the last time Wizard has seen snow made on it T2B?
> 
> Do you ever foresee repairing/using (forgot what you said the deal with that line was) Witch to Black in lean snow years?





Not that long ago.  That line is utilized for everything we put on the West side, so the pipe itself is in fine shape.  We will likely make snow there after Sorcerer.  

Witch to Black is also functional as per a line test we ran last season, but it is a hard place to make snow in.  Tough terrain and lots of things in line before we try to go there but yes, we would love to make that statement and show off that capability- which this is a big year for proving our abilities to everyone for sure.  This mountain can be so much more reliable than it's reputation would indicate, and we hope to earn more season pass holders going forward because of that.  I think we've done a good job of ushering in the new era of Magic, but the more "firsts" we can pile on the better IMO.  Witch to Black would be a game changer!


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## Do Work (Jan 6, 2019)

Sorc has not been run since closing successfully.  The one time it was attempted (before our new system/controls were installed) it was blown up, and we just finished fixing it a few weeks ago iirc.  I am really looking forward to Sorc being blown in, as those bumps will get HUGE and we plan to go half moguls/half groomed for the best of both worlds over there.  

Love hearing all the positive feedback, everyone has been working themselves ragged to make it happen, and nothing comes easy here.  So happy to know that people are seeing it all and enjoying the fruits of all these projects, and we are just warming up!  Cheers!!


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 6, 2019)

Thread once again needs some pics.  Sleeper day today.  Sleeper weekend really.  

Skiing was good then this..


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 8, 2019)

DoWork, what's on tap for snowmaking during the coming cold snap? My guess is east side repairs followed by Sorcerer than Wizard? Any interesting little trial count boosters (e.g., Bailout to link, Trudy’s, Betwixt?) 

I assume that would all take a week plus and mother nature may beat you to it, interested in the plan nonetheless. 

Great job can't wait to ride green this weekend! 


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## NYDB (Jan 8, 2019)

I think with green running after east side touch ups they want to blow in lower magic carpet and bury the water bars before they head west

per snow report



> Tuesday is too warm for snowmaking but that will resume on Wednesday as we look to blow in Lower Magic Carpet off the new Green Chair for the weekend as well as reinforce Carumba, lower Red Line and Show Off.
> 
> ​


​


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## ShadyGrove (Jan 8, 2019)

Green chair!  What are we talking about the green chair for?  That's so last weekend.

It's now time to start whining about when the new Black chair will be installed.  Yeah, like every single weekend making sure to track down JM and DW and ask them how's it going?, when is the permit going to be signed?, what's the exact route of the chair?, didn't they buy it last summer so why isn't it already installed?, will the red line run when the black is running, is it a detachable?, and such. 

Get with the times, man.


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## NYDB (Jan 8, 2019)

Did they order the bubbles yet for the new quad?

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## Do Work (Jan 8, 2019)

ShadyGrove said:


> Green chair!  What are we talking about the green chair for?  That's so last weekend.
> 
> It's now time to start whining about when the new Black chair will be installed.  Yeah, like every single weekend making sure to track down JM and DW and ask them how's it going?, when is the permit going to be signed?, what's the exact route of the chair?, didn't they buy it last summer so why isn't it already installed?, will the red line run when the black is running, is it a detachable?, and such.
> 
> Get with the times, man.






I seriously wish that wasn't my life in a nutshell but it is.


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## slatham (Jan 8, 2019)

ShadyGrove said:


> Green chair!  What are we talking about the green chair for?  That's so last weekend.
> 
> It's now time to start whining about when the new Black chair will be installed.  Yeah, like every single weekend making sure to track down JM and DW and ask them how's it going?, when is the permit going to be signed?, what's the exact route of the chair?, didn't they buy it last summer so why isn't it already installed?, will the red line run when the black is running, is it a detachable?, and such.
> 
> Get with the times, man.



Ha, so funny and so right. I am definitely an offender, but I do try to pay for my harassment!

But the immediate question as it relates to lifts is when does the old Black Lift spin?


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 8, 2019)

RustyGroomer said:


> Thread once again needs some pics.  Sleeper day today.  Sleeper weekend really.
> 
> Skiing was good then this..



nice. saw those on facebook. are those all talisman with the man-made?

thinking about magic this weekend if the terrain is gonna be wide open again


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 8, 2019)

Talisman & East side cruisers late in the day once the snow started adding up.  Just enough to make a fun day even better.  All pics were late Sunday.  Had the place to ourselves.


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## ShadyGrove (Jan 10, 2019)

Great to see that patrol has opened Twilight, Broomstick, Black, Sorcerer, and Disappearing Act.  Should be a great weekend.


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## drjeff (Jan 10, 2019)

Should be interesting to hear what a difference the Green makes with taking some of the race day pressure off the Red this coming Sunday when the U12 racers from the Southern Vt Council race on Show-off.

And if I understand the original plan for races that aren't being held on Talisman, racer tickets and racer parent tickets are only supposed to be good for use on the Green. If that is the case, while the parking lot and lodge may be full, the line for the Red shouldn't be


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## jaytrem (Jan 10, 2019)

drjeff said:


> And if I understand the original plan for races that aren't being held on Talisman, racer tickets and racer parent tickets are only supposed to be good for use on the Green. If that is the case, while the parking lot and lodge may be full, the line for the Red shouldn't be



That's interesting.  Do a lot of places limit the racer/parent tickets to specific lifts?


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## drjeff (Jan 10, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> That's interesting.  Do a lot of places limit the racer/parent tickets to specific lifts?




This is the 1st I've heard of. I've got 2 Magic races with my kids this year, one scheduled for Talisman on Presidents Day Monday and then another scheduled for Showoff the 2nd weekend of March, so I will see, if this is the ticket policy this year for Magic races, how it works on both fronts.

I do know that some of my racer parent friends, who do have kids racing at Magic this weekend, are very likely to buy the full mountain ticket given the new snow this week, and as always really look forward to awaiting the awards while having a brew or 2 in the BLT!


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## MG Skier (Jan 10, 2019)

I am looking forward to getting out there Saturday or Sunday.....I thought I read somewhere that Dr. Jeff is correct on the racers being on Green Chair if the race is on the East side. I am just happy to hear Ma Nature is back in the game....and 2 lifts of course!


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 10, 2019)

drjeff said:


> I do know that some of my *racer parent friends, who do have kids racing at Magic this weekend, are very likely to buy the full mountain ticket *given the new snow this week, and as always really look forward to awaiting the awards while having a brew or 2 in the BLT!



New snow or not, if you're a ski parent who plans to ski that day, I fail to see why anyone would buy a "green chair only" lift ticket, unless they only want to take a few runs maybe, but even then, that's pretty niche numbers.


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## urungus (Jan 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> New snow or not, if you're a ski parent who plans to ski that day, I fail to see why anyone would buy a "green chair only" lift ticket, unless they only want to take a few runs maybe, but even then, that's pretty niche numbers.



Maybe the team buys the tickets, not the individual parents


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## drjeff (Jan 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> New snow or not, if you're a ski parent who plans to ski that day, I fail to see why anyone would buy a "green chair only" lift ticket, unless they only want to take a few runs maybe, but even then, that's pretty niche numbers.


The reality that most racer parents come to grips with is that on day's your kids are racing, most of your day is spent standing around the race course watching your kid(s) and their teammates race, and not skiing much yourself. That's why on race days, most every hosting mountain will offer a discounted racer parent ticket, since they understand that most of your day on the hill isn't spent skiing, but spending watching.

For example, a typical Magic racer parent day for me, is get there about 7:30/45, get my kids registered and in the lodge booting up with their teammates. The kids all head out maybe 10-15 minutes before 1st chair. I then boot up with my racer parent friends who are skiing that day, and we head out maybe 10 to 15 minutes after 1st chair and the kids have mostly all loaded their 1st chair. I then get to ski 2 or maybe 3 runs depending on my kids bib number/starting position during run #1 before watching their run. Then I'm waiting around the finish area with my kid(s) while their friends come down, often searching through their teams coat bag which gets brought down after the girls finish and then after the boys finish. If it's a dual slalom or GS on showoff, then it's also QUICKLY get my kid back on the lift for their 2nd run (Magic runs a VERY EFFICIENT race which especially with having to use the Red in the past made for the need to get a kid back to the top quickly!) I then might get 1 run in between my kids 1st and 2nd runs, then watch their 2nd run, in for lunch, then repeat the process for the afternoon race.... On a typical Magic race day, I might get 5, maybe 6 runs and that's arriving at 7:30 and often not leaving until 3/3:30.

And it's worth every second to me as a parent watching my kids enjoy it

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## JamaicaMan (Jan 10, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Should be interesting to hear what a difference the Green makes with taking some of the race day pressure off the Red this coming Sunday when the U12 racers from the Southern Vt Council race on Show-off.
> 
> And if I understand the original plan for races that aren't being held on Talisman, racer tickets and racer parent tickets are only supposed to be good for use on the Green. If that is the case, while the parking lot and lodge may be full, the line for the Red shouldn't be



No. For the race, the kids and coaches will use the green chair as that is quickest and relieves pressure on Red, but parents and racers can use any lift. No restrictions.


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## drjeff (Jan 10, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> No. For the race, the kids and coaches will use the green chair as that is quickest and relieves pressure on Red, but parents and racers can use any lift. No restrictions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Thank you for the clarification! As as racer parent, I will fully appreciate that when my U14 son is there for the Spring series in March! And totally look forward to him learning what an AWESOME SL trail Talisman is on President's Day Monday! 

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## MG Skier (Jan 14, 2019)

For those that were asking how the Green would help with traffic on a race day. 

Well, keep in mind it was cold and the Patriots were on....

I didn't really wait for a chair all day! Pretty close to ski off, ski on. More details in a trip report later today!


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## ShadyGrove (Jan 14, 2019)

MG Skier said:


> For those that were asking how the Green would help with traffic on a race day.
> 
> Well, keep in mind it was cold and the Patriots were on....
> 
> I didn't really wait for a chair all day! Pretty close to ski off, ski on. More details in a trip report later today!



200 some odd racers plus coaches, parents, etc. 

Sounds like Green did exactly what it was built for.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 14, 2019)

ShadyGrove said:


> 200 some odd racers plus coaches, parents, etc.
> 
> Sounds like Green did exactly what it was built for.



I got there at 1PM on Sunday and the Green lift had plenty of business. Almost every chair used which then started to taper with the game and cold. The combo worked perfectly. The races seemed to be done earlier also. My first trip down and the gates were all put away. It had to help because there was never a line to speak of on Red.

Enjoyed my newly rented locker. What a luxury. There still may be a few available but going fast.


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## drjeff (Jan 14, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> I got there at 1PM on Sunday and the Green lift had plenty of business. Almost every chair used which then started to taper with the game and cold. The combo worked perfectly. The races seemed to be done earlier also. My first trip down and the gates were all put away. It had to help because there was never a line to speak of on Red.
> 
> Enjoyed my newly rented locker. What a luxury. There still may be a few available but going fast.


Magic runs a quick, efficient race for sure! Actually yesterday for the U12's that were racing on Showoff, they ran 2 races, each with 2 runs by the time you hit Showoff! 

My friends who had kids racing there said they were thrilled with how the Green served the race hill! 

Bravo Magic! 

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## Euler (Jan 14, 2019)

I skied Magic yesterday from 11-3....ski on both Red and Green the entire time.
Just as important as the new lift is the snowmaking and grooming.  Magic is no longer a place that should be thought of as an "only go when the snow is great" kind of place.  The snow in Southern VT this year has been marginal at best, and Magic was skiing great!.  Natural cover trails are varied....Gonnif is great up top and gets sketchier as you descend....really fun the whole way.  There are plenty of intermediate groomed ways down from the top.  A beginner would be really comfortable riding Green and skiing the "easiest way down".
For me, the mind blowing trail was Talisman....packed machine made powder, not groomed, but not yet bumped up really.  It's so nice to be able to go to Magic now and have so much fun terrain available even when the natural snow cover is light....thanks to the investors and the whole crew over there for the $$, the time, and the effort to get the job done and done well!


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 14, 2019)

Euler said:


> I skied Magic yesterday from 11-3....ski on both Red and Green the entire time.
> Just as important as the new lift is the snowmaking and grooming.  Magic is no longer a place that should be thought of as an "only go when the snow is great" kind of place.  The snow in Southern VT this year has been marginal at best, and Magic was skiing great!.  Natural cover trails are varied....Gonnif is great up top and gets sketchier as you descend....really fun the whole way.  There are plenty of intermediate groomed ways down from the top.  A beginner would be really comfortable riding Green and skiing the "easiest way down".
> For me, the mind blowing trail was Talisman....packed machine made powder, not groomed, but not yet bumped up really.  It's so nice to be able to go to Magic now and have so much fun terrain available even when the natural snow cover is light....thanks to the investors and the whole crew over there for the $$, the time, and the effort to get the job done and done well!



[emoji106][emoji482]


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## sugarbushskier (Jan 16, 2019)

Heading up to Magic tomorrow.  Ticket in hand!  Looking forward to a great day!


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 16, 2019)

Magic's currently in the bullseye if you could lock in the models right now and not have any more shifting.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 16, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Magic's currently in the bullseye if you could lock in the models right now and not have any more shifting.



Hmmm....contemplating making the move from the catskills to s. vt. for sunday.  Lots of moving parts to this plan, but making sunday my first day at magic is pretty tempting.

A little intimidated by the longer drive home sunday.  If it's slow going, that extra 1+ hour on the road could really be an extra 2...


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## NYDB (Jan 16, 2019)

Sleep on the floor of BLT (there is some room in the corner next to the stage)  Monday will be sweet as well plus you can watch NFL playoffs at BLT.  

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## tnt1234 (Jan 16, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> Sleep on the floor of BLT (there is some room in the corner next to the stage)  Monday will be sweet as well plus you can watch NFL playoffs at BLT.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using AlpineZone mobile app



Have to be at work Monday.


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## skiur (Jan 17, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Have to be at work Monday.



Coming home from VT sunday night, most likely they will close the highways in MA (they are quick to do that in Mass).....If its bad enough there is a good chance that 87 will be closed in NY as well.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 17, 2019)

skiur said:


> Coming home from VT sunday night, most likely they will close the highways in MA (they are quick to do that in Mass).....If its bad enough there is a good chance that 87 will be closed in NY as well.



Starting to wonder about this.  

If we go we're going to stick to the catskills.  Wonder what time the storm starts winding down.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 17, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Starting to wonder about this. Wonder what time the storm starts winding down.



Looking like after Midnight to Monday morning.


----------



## JimG. (Jan 17, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Starting to wonder about this.
> 
> If we go we're going to stick to the catskills.  Wonder what time the storm starts winding down.



I think I'm going to follow this same course of action. Busy Saturday and trying to find a place to stay Sat night has proven impossible due to holiday. Gonna hit the Cats Sunday to keep the driving to a minimum, then heading up to K on Monday and staying over for Tuesday as well.

My last concern is the wind forecast.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 17, 2019)

All signs pointing to an epic Sunday and Monday.  I know red is good in the wind.  How is green?  it is a bit more exposed before it gets to green line trail.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Jan 17, 2019)

JimG. said:


> heading up to *K on Monday *and staying over for Tuesday as well.



Watch the temps.   _Ambient _temps Monday wont leave negative figures and probably will stay that way until around 10am Tuesday.


----------



## JimG. (Jan 17, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Watch the temps.   _Ambient _temps Monday wont leave negative figures and probably will stay that way until around 10am Tuesday.



All good...far better than warm.

This is what neck gaiters and hand warmers are made for, as well as Gondolas and bubble 6-packs. Bitter cold also useful for crowd control.


----------



## gregnye (Jan 19, 2019)

Two questions:

The snow report has hinted at the possibility of the Black chair running this weekend. Anyone know the actual probability is? I'd love to ride that before it's removed!

Also anyone know if Magic allows overnight parking/car camping?


----------



## IceEidolon (Jan 19, 2019)

I have overnight parked in lot 2 and I wasn't hassled. 

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## BenedictGomez (Jan 19, 2019)

gregnye said:


> *anyone know if Magic allows overnight parking/car camping?*



Check the weather report before car camping.  The models are busting hard on this storm.  

Yesterday every model had Magic in the crosshairs of a major dump, but with a warmer evolution in reality it's now teetering on the danger zone.  Snow totals will have to come way down even if it stays all snow, hopefully it pans out still.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 19, 2019)

Nice crowd today.  Great snow and base for tommorow. 

Green really helped keep the lines today to 5 min max today.  Bar jammed.  

Cant wait for tommorow.  Even if some ice mixes in it'll still be great. 

Lift line at 1pm today at red.  Green was ski on all day.   

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## NYDB (Jan 21, 2019)

Busiest day i have ever seen at the hill.  Which is good, since it was a powder day on MLK sunday.  Morning lineup for red. 



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## RustyGroomer (Jan 21, 2019)

Orangegondola


----------



## NYDB (Feb 1, 2019)

Frigid cold start to the day but the snow was really great.  By 11 or so it warmed up nicely.  What a beautiful day.  

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## 180 (Feb 1, 2019)

Stratton equally good today.  Glades were exceptional.


----------



## urungus (Feb 1, 2019)

I will be taking a high intermediate / low expert snowboarder to Magic for their first time.   Any comments about Magic from a snowboarding perspective, especially w.r.t. the west side, are there too many flat patches along Wizard?


----------



## NYDB (Feb 2, 2019)

They'll be fine.  My son is about the same level and he has no problems.


----------



## Magicsnowboard (Feb 2, 2019)

urungus said:


> I will be taking a high intermediate / low expert snowboarder to Magic for their first time.   Any comments about Magic from a snowboarding perspective, especially w.r.t. the west side, are there too many flat patches along Wizard?



Should be fine. Worst flat is red chair to Magician. You can hit pretty much every other line with a little planing.  No issues with flats on Wiz after that. Much better than most mountains.  

Besides, worst cast hang off the green chair to start. 


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## machski (Feb 3, 2019)

Black replacement with the Black Quad has been approved by VT finally!  Congrats!

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## slatham (Feb 3, 2019)

machski said:


> Black replacement with the Black Quad has been approved by VT finally!  Congrats!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



VT Act 250: Replacement of the existing Black Chair lift. Project components include: removal of the existing fixed-grip triple chairlift, towers, top and bottom terminals, operator buildings and associated infrastructure. Installation of a new fixed-grip quad chairlift including towers, top and bottom terminals, operator buildings, and associated infrastructure. The proposed new chair alignment will be moved slightly east, ranging from a 25' offset at the bottom to 50' at top, in the existing trail routing to accommodate trajectory of the new chair and establishment of a new top terminal approximately 400' beyond existing.

Looks like Do Work will go right from Ski area ops to lift construction.

Oh, and don't forget about the pond - that permit is pending but will likely be another project underway. 

The Magic momentum is monumental.....


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 3, 2019)

machski said:


> Black replacement with the Black Quad has been approved by VT finally!  Congrats!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Great news. Now all the logistics can fall into place for this big job. Matt (Do Work) has to quit shoveling snow on Red and start planning!

Magic skied great without Black this weekend. Green is getting plenty of use and I have never seen so many low intermediates buying day tickets, rental equipment and having fun. I never foresaw it but Magic has a whole new business as a simple place for people to develop or just have fun. 

By the way, both Trick and Talisman started to soften just that little bit this afternoon and should be great tomorrow without getting too soft. I'll be hitting them!


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 3, 2019)

slatham said:


> *a new top terminal approximately 400' beyond existing.*



Will this be high enough so that it will be as all-mountain efficient as the red chair?


----------



## IceEidolon (Feb 3, 2019)

I think that's the intent, though crossing the base area might be a bit of a hike. 

I'm looking forward to trying the Green Chair and Red Chair tomorrow - and putting my first day on my Magic season pass.

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## slatham (Feb 3, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Will this be high enough so that it will be as all-mountain efficient as the red chair?



The plans as I understand them are for the summit terminal of Black to be at the same elevation as Red, so all summit terrain will accessible from both chairs. The base terminal is at same elevation as current Black, and as noted above it will be a bit closer to the tubing area than current chair.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 3, 2019)

slatham said:


> *The plans as I understand them are for the summit terminal of Black to be at the same elevation as Red, so all summit terrain will accessible from both chairs.*



Good, that's the logical thing to do.


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## urungus (Feb 3, 2019)

Magicsnowboard said:


> Should be fine. Worst flat is red chair to Magician. You can hit pretty much every other line with a little planing.  No issues with flats on Wiz after that. Much better than most mountains.
> 
> Besides, worst cast hang off the green chair to start.
> 
> ...



Thanks!  Had a great time today at Magic as always and the snowboarders did just fine.  Rode the Green Chair for the first time, fine accomplishment to have this open after so many years.  Made it down Slide of Hans for the first time, was not as fearsome as the double diamond rating would suggest.  Green Line looked  tougher, though doable with enough coverage.  Was cool to be able to use the Green Chair to check it out before committing.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 3, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Good, that's the logical thing to do.



Agreed.


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## Newpylong (Feb 4, 2019)

Cutover from top of new Quad to access everything you can on Red.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 4, 2019)

Today's shaping up to be a nice break from the cold, with spring conditions.

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## ss20 (Feb 4, 2019)

IceEidolon said:


> Today's shaping up to be a nice break from the cold, with spring conditions.
> 
> Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk



For who exactly at Magic, on this Monday?


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## slatham (Feb 4, 2019)

ss20 said:


> For who exactly at Magic, on this Monday?



Everyone who stayed to ski this special super bowl Monday opening (unfortunately I am not one of them)


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 4, 2019)

Yesterday was pretty good.  If you like this sort of thing.


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## camberstick (Feb 4, 2019)

Damn, sweet pic!


----------



## IceEidolon (Feb 4, 2019)

Also, the brunch was the icing on the cake. Or maybe the giant cinnamon roll.

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## NYDB (Feb 10, 2019)

So definitely no powder day opening wed?


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## slatham (Feb 10, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> So definitely no powder day opening wed?



I have not heard any official word, but following the weather as I do I would guess there is some concern about mixing/changing to sleet on Tuesday night. Its a close call right now and personally I wouldn't make the call yet.....


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 10, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> So definitely no powder day opening wed?



No pow day opening on Wednesday as we have a full mountain rental with rk miles already scheduled for that day...it always seems to snow when they come.


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## slatham (Feb 10, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> No pow day opening on Wednesday as we have a full mountain rental with rk miles already scheduled for that day...it always seems to snow when they come.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Well at least there's no decision making stress. And hummmm, could this make Thursday a bit less tracked?


----------



## crazy (Feb 10, 2019)

slatham said:


> Well at least there's no decision making stress. And hummmm, could this make Thursday a bit less tracked?



I'm confused. Doesn't a full mountain rental mean that a company is renting out the mountain to ski for the day? Wouldn't Thursday therefore be more tracked out than if nobody was skiing the mountain on Wednesday? Apologies if I've just mixed something up here.


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## urungus (Feb 10, 2019)

The comparison is vs a special Wednesday “powder day” that is open to the public


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## slatham (Feb 10, 2019)

crazy said:


> I'm confused. Doesn't a full mountain rental mean that a company is renting out the mountain to ski for the day? Wouldn't Thursday therefore be more tracked out than if nobody was skiing the mountain on Wednesday? Apologies if I've just mixed something up here.



More tracked out than if closed, less tracked out than a full on open to the public powder day. Or so goes my theory.....

Been wrong before, just ask JM about my weather forecasts!;-)


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 10, 2019)

crazy said:


> I'm confused. Doesn't a full mountain rental mean that a company is renting out the mountain to ski for the day? Wouldn't Thursday therefore be more tracked out than if nobody was skiing the mountain on Wednesday? Apologies if I've just mixed something up here.



Less tracked out, than if it was open to the Public for a "Powder Day"


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## crazy (Feb 10, 2019)

It sounds like Thursday would be a great day to hit up Magic then


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## NYDB (Feb 11, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> No pow day opening on Wednesday as we have a full mountain rental with rk miles already scheduled for that day...it always seems to snow when they come.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



is there some schedule someplace that shows private event dates that are booked?  It would be great to  see these blacked out dates well in advance in the events calendar on the website.  

Tremendous luck to hit back to back powder days.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 11, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> is there some schedule someplace that shows private event dates that are booked?  It would be great to  see these blacked out dates well in advance in the events calendar on the website.
> 
> Tremendous luck to hit back to back powder days.



Another one 3/11. They were put on the calendar. Not sure why not showing up. Checking that now


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 11, 2019)

JM- Calendar is not showing open on Monday 2/18. However, there is a race scheduled on Talisman.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 11, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> JM- Calendar is not showing open on Monday 2/18. However, there is a race scheduled on Talisman.



Open all week 


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## tnt1234 (Feb 12, 2019)

OK!  I'm hoping Saturday will be mine, and my youngest daughter's first day at Magic.  We've been trying for the last three years, and every time we book a trip, weather screws us....and yet again, that might happen.

Looks like 9-12" from this storm, but Friday is iffy....so....

How early on a holiday Saturday do they sell out?  I realize there are no guarantees, but am I safe to wait until late friday evening to buy tickets online?  Or will they pre- sell 1500 (is that the #?) before then?

Assuming this storm brings things back to life, and friday storm is all or mostly snow....where do we go first?!?!?!  For reference, we love trees, and narrow NE bump runs....think Castle Rock, Goat, etc....

Really hope this works out - we're psyched to finally get there!


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## JimG. (Feb 12, 2019)

Sure Magic will work out for you, will probably get more snow than predicted.

Gonna be the same at K. 

At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## NYDB (Feb 13, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> OK!  I'm hoping Saturday will be mine, and my youngest daughter's first day at Magic.  We've been trying for the last three years, and every time we book a trip, weather screws us....and yet again, that might happen.
> 
> Looks like 9-12" from this storm, but Friday is iffy....so....
> 
> ...



Suggestions for opening laps

Lap 1 - warmup on broomstick to HOM .  Hop into hallows if you want to test the coverage in the trees.  
Lap 2 - Witch/Goniff
Lap 3 - Whiteout/up your sleeve/Vertigo (nice fun mellow natural run) or if your feeling like lap 1 and 2 aren't challenging enough hit up Witch/Blackline 
Lap 4 - Pixie Dust/Seance/White Kitten/Dissapearing act - Good fun easy tree runs top to bottom  If you find there was good coverage after that run,  do some exploring.  As you know, there are tree shots everywhere.  

have fun.


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## Do Work (Feb 13, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> Lap 4 - Pixie Dust/Seance/White Kitten/Dissapearing act - Good fun easy tree runs top to bottom




That's one of my favorite lines on the mountain right there.  It doesn't need to be super deep to ski well and the powder hounds usually head west and don't pay the ES much mind.  So much fun to relax a little bit and hop around through those playful lines hootin' and hollerin' without a care in the world.  

T2B's like that are a huge reason we've been spending so much time revitalizing the east side trees in recent years.  The flow has greatly improved and multiple options exist from just about anywhere.  Like a choose-your-own-adventure book of powder and trees...  It's kind of funny how much time I spend on the east side on a pow day given what the rest of the mountain is like- also how long after a storm I can STILL find fresh over there.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 13, 2019)

Thanks guys.  Crossing fingers on this friday storm....hope to finally get there!

And hey - while I have you....any recommendations for dinner friday/sat. night?

last year we enjoyed Gringo jacks and will probably go back there again.  Is the Raven's Den any good?  Reviews seem mixed.  Cooper Grouse looks great, but can't get in.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 13, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Thanks guys.  Crossing fingers on this friday storm....hope to finally get there!
> 
> And hey - while I have you....any recommendations for dinner friday/sat. night?
> 
> last year we enjoyed Gringo jacks and will probably go back there again.  Is the Raven's Den any good?  Reviews seem mixed.  Cooper Grouse looks great, but can't get in.



It sounds like you are staying down in Manchester?  If not, there are plenty of good options between Londonderry, Peru, and Winhall.


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## WoodCore (Feb 13, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Is the Raven's Den any good?  Reviews seem mixed.  Cooper Grouse looks great, but can't get in.



A little pricey but never had a bad meal there. They make a good martini and have a nice salad bar.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 13, 2019)

ShadyGrove said:


> It sounds like you are staying down in Manchester?  If not, there are plenty of good options between Londonderry, Peru, and Winhall.



Yes, closer to Manchester.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 13, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> OK!  I'm hoping Saturday will be mine, and my youngest daughter's first day at Magic.  We've been trying for the last three years, and every time we book a trip, weather screws us....and yet again, that might happen.
> 
> Looks like 9-12" from this storm, but Friday is iffy....so....
> 
> ...



We never sell-out online. Only day-of walk-ups do we sell out. MLK was at 10:15am (ticket office opens at 8) so just be here early.

This storm only did 6-8” so East Side trees are the way to go. Lower angle is really skiing well. West Side natural steeps are thin as last week’s multiple hits of 2-3” rain storms wiped out a ton of base. Fun to ski with rock skis today but don’t take any new equipment out on steep all-natural stuff yet until we get another storm. Lots of coverage on snowmaking trails like upper Wiz Tali Trick Medium Wand Show Off Carumba Hocus Upper Carpet. Might even see a snow bar at Sunshine this weekend...




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## tnt1234 (Feb 13, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> We never sell-out online. Only day-of walk-ups do we sell out. MLK was at 10:15am (ticket office opens at 8) so just be here early.
> 
> This storm only did 6-8” so East Side trees are the way to go. Lower angle is really skiing well. West Side natural steeps are thin as last week’s multiple hits of 2-3” rain storms wiped out a ton of base. Fun to ski with rock skis today but don’t take any new equipment out on steep all-natural stuff yet until we get another storm. Lots of coverage on snowmaking trails like upper Wiz Tali Trick Medium Wand Show Off Carumba Hocus Upper Carpet. Might even see a snow bar at Sunshine this weekend...
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info!

Can I buy online morning of?


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## drjeff (Feb 13, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> We never sell-out online. Only day-of walk-ups do we sell out. MLK was at 10:15am (ticket office opens at 8) so just be here early.
> 
> This storm only did 6-8” so East Side trees are the way to go. Lower angle is really skiing well. West Side natural steeps are thin as last week’s multiple hits of 2-3” rain storms wiped out a ton of base. Fun to ski with rock skis today but don’t take any new equipment out on steep all-natural stuff yet until we get another storm. Lots of coverage on snowmaking trails like upper Wiz Tali Trick Medium Wand Show Off Carumba Hocus Upper Carpet. Might even see a snow bar at Sunshine this weekend...
> 
> ...


Looking forward to Monday at Magic! My youngest kid is one of the VARA U14's who will be slapping some plastic down one of the best slalom hills anywhere, Talisman! 

Hope that the mountain (and the BLT!) are PACKED this weekend, as you guys DESERVE a HUGE weekend for all you've done!! 

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## Do Work (Feb 13, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Thanks guys.  Crossing fingers on this friday storm....hope to finally get there!
> 
> And hey - while I have you....any recommendations for dinner friday/sat. night?
> 
> last year we enjoyed Gringo jacks and will probably go back there again.  Is the Raven's Den any good?  Reviews seem mixed.  Cooper Grouse looks great, but can't get in.



The New American Grill 100%.  Sip of Sunshine, great food and great service.


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## Do Work (Feb 13, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Looking forward to Monday at Magic! My youngest kid is one of the VARA U14's who will be slapping some plastic down one of the best slalom hills anywhere, Talisman!
> 
> Hope that the mountain (and the BLT!) are PACKED this weekend, as you guys DESERVE a HUGE weekend for all you've done!!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app




Racing in Tali is a proud moment for everyone on all sides for sure.  Cheers and good luck to your kid!!


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 14, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> Can I buy online morning of?



For online tickets must buy by midnight before the day you want to come...


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 14, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Looking forward to Monday at Magic! My youngest kid is one of the VARA U14's who will be slapping some plastic down one of the best slalom hills anywhere, Talisman!
> 
> Hope that the mountain (and the BLT!) are PACKED this weekend, as you guys DESERVE a HUGE weekend for all you've done!!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Thank you and good luck on Monday! Will be a great race venue!


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## tnt1234 (Feb 14, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> For online tickets must buy by midnight before the day you want to come...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Thanks for the info!


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 14, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Yes, closer to Manchester.



Assuming you mean down the mountain and don't want to drive back up to Winhall or Peru, try the Mystic Cafe or Moonwink. Both relatively new.  If you just want a burger and counter service is good enough, Depot St. Burgers is okay (although overpriced). 

If you do come back up the mountain, either JJ. Hapgood or Seesaws Lodge is back open in Peru and you can stop on your way from Magic back to Manchester to take a look at their menus.  There is also a new pub in Winhall called the Grindstone that I've heard good reviews about.


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## icecoast1 (Feb 15, 2019)

What's Magic typically like during presidents week crowd wise?  Obviously theres a lot of factors but are the crowds at least somewhat manageable? Trying to decide if its worth going for a couple days next week...


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## skifree (Feb 15, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Thanks guys.  Crossing fingers on this friday storm....hope to finally get there!
> 
> And hey - while I have you....any recommendations for dinner friday/sat. night?
> 
> last year we enjoyed Gringo jacks and will probably go back there again.  Is the Raven's Den any good?  Reviews seem mixed.  Cooper Grouse looks great, but can't get in.



I like red fox inn in Bondville . very good.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 15, 2019)

weather.com says it's snowing at magic right now while it's raining in manchester.   Do we believe this?


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## slatham (Feb 15, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> weather.com says it's snowing at magic right now while it's raining in manchester.   Do we believe this?



That happens ALL the time. Manchester is a deep, North/South Valley. 800’ elevation at lowest point whereas Magic is 1,350’ and in a higher alpine valley East of the spine of the Greens. 

Wasn’t there today but based on Bromley I’d say they got some snow this morning, maybe an inch, and had very little if any non-frozen. It did get a bit warm and soft this afternoon but very briefly and is now under freezing at 2,350’ at my place.


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## JimG. (Feb 16, 2019)

FWIW, I was at Killington today and it snowed all day on the mountain but rained at the bottom of the access road.


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## NYDB (Feb 16, 2019)

icecoast1 said:


> What's Magic typically like during presidents week crowd wise?  Obviously theres a lot of factors but are the crowds at least somewhat manageable? Trying to decide if its worth going for a couple days next week...



crowds won't be an issue after monday.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 16, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> crowds won't be an issue after monday.



Magic had lines but was entirely fun today. Worst line for me was about 10 minutes. They never hit the 1300 skier day ticket limit.

There was evidently just a bit of rain on Friday but I thought the surfaces were good.

Probably the end for the Black lift as there is no need to fix it after this weekend.


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## Do Work (Feb 18, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> weather.com says it's snowing at magic right now while it's raining in manchester.   Do we believe this?



Currently snowing nicely, with probably 2" down so far.  

Also fwiw Manchester is kind of like Denver or SLC haha...  You can never tell what's happening up in the mountains from down in town.  It could be a whole different season over Bromley mountain.


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## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2019)

Where on Wizard are those sweet whales in the pictures?


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 19, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> Where on Wizard are those sweet whales in the pictures?



On the two steeper pitches but I think they were groomed last night per the snow report.


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## slatham (Feb 19, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> On the two steeper pitches but I think they were groomed last night per the snow report.



Wizard was a TTB groomed, snowmaking base, packed pow cord surface piece of beauty today. Long time since it’s been like that. Full slate of great groomers today plus TZ, HOM and Scorcerer were great natural steeps.


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## Newpylong (Feb 19, 2019)

Been a hot minute since snow has been made below Talisman on Wizard hasn't it? Wiz T2B is a pretty sick run.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 20, 2019)

Even better when you throw Slide in.  Had so much fun skiing that route the other day.


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## rocks860 (Mar 3, 2019)

I’m thinking of heading up next Saturday, anyone been out recently? How’s it skiing?


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## Euler (Mar 3, 2019)

rocks860 said:


> I’m thinking of heading up next Saturday, anyone been out recently? How’s it skiing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I spent the morning there today....The place is skiing great!  Low angle trees of the Green Chair were super fun (White Kitten and Disappearing Act, I think) . snow was soft in the woods there.  Sorcerer, Talisman, and Heart of Magician all fun...some small bumps, some icy patches, but also TONS of loose piles of snow to make turns on.   What else...Vertigo was super fun....all the East side groomers are in great shape, wizard top to bottom.  After 4-6 inches tonight and nice cold temps all week, next Saturday should be great for you.


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## rocks860 (Mar 3, 2019)

That’s what I like to hear!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 5, 2019)

Absolutely what Euler said.  Skiing is great right now.  Yesterday


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## rocks860 (Mar 5, 2019)

Excellent, will buy my ticket today or tomorrow


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## rocks860 (Mar 5, 2019)

Looks like there were a few 54.99 tickets left on liftopia so I snagged one, will be there on Saturday!


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## rocks860 (Mar 5, 2019)

Now I just need to decide what skis to take, would you guys say it’s powder ski worthy?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

by saturday with no refresher snow? no. 

im bringing my 105s this weekend. the 118s are wild overkill.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 5, 2019)

Not to scare you but bring your best edges.  The steeps have a nice (if that's possible} ice layer underneath but still skied great.  Personally it did not bother me one bit & it makes for a super solid base.  Moreso than rocks.  Really fun technical skiing.


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## rtjcbrown (Mar 5, 2019)

Did the Black Chair ever open this season?


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## rocks860 (Mar 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> by saturday with no refresher snow? no.
> 
> im bringing my 105s this weekend. the 118s are wild overkill.



Yeah I’m thinkin the 100s should do fine, only concern is no rocker on those 


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## urungus (Mar 5, 2019)

rtjcbrown said:


> Did the Black Chair ever open this season?



No.  But the Green Chair did.


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2019)

So someone says "bring your best edges as there is a ice base on the steeps" and someone replies "I'll bring my 100's but I am afraid because they are not rockered"

Hmmm...


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 6, 2019)

Whatever skis you like best for a little slide into powder pockets.  I would think there's no need for rocker but wtf do I know.


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## rocks860 (Mar 6, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> So someone says "bring your best edges as there is a ice base on the steeps" and someone replies "I'll bring my 100's but I am afraid because they are not rockered"
> 
> Hmmm...



I was more concerned about the loose snow between those patches of ice and or potential woods shenanigans. 


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## Do Work (Mar 7, 2019)

rocks860 said:


> I was more concerned about the loose snow between those patches of ice and or potential woods shenanigans.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




There will be bumps, we are purposely going to start only grooming half trails and letting the other side bump up for spring shenanigans. Pack accordingly!


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 7, 2019)

In fact it seems the Black Chair will never run again.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 7, 2019)

I heard it'll be a wildlife sanctuary.  Like when a ship sinks & becomes a reef.

Awesome on the 1/2 & 1/2 DW.  Love those days...


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2019)

Do Work said:


> There will be bumps, *we are purposely going to start only grooming half trails and letting the other side bump up* for spring shenanigans. Pack accordingly!



I wish more places did this, at least on a few trails. 

 It allows differing levels of skiers in the same group/family better enjoy a run together.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> I wish more places did this, at least on a few trails.
> 
> It allows differing levels of skiers in the same group/family better enjoy a run together.


Attitash this week:



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## Edd (Mar 7, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> I wish more places did this, at least on a few trails.
> 
> It allows differing levels of skiers in the same group/family better enjoy a run together.



Bretton Woods does it on many trails. It’s great.


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## slatham (Mar 7, 2019)

Talisman today was groomed to perfection skiers left, chopped powder shots (soon to be moguls) skiers right. Very nice. In fact there were a lot of very nice groomers, some nice lose/chopped packed powder on some east side trails, while the steeeper pitches had a challenging and technical combo of powder topped bumps with some firm to icy troughs. Nothing that can’t be handled, and it builds character too.


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## drjeff (Mar 7, 2019)

Looking forward to getting back to Magic on Sunday (and trying to figure out how to maximize my skiing as my son is taking a few race runs down Showoff, and not have it seem like i'm blowing him off to enjoy the rest of the mountain   )


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2019)

Magic, Attitash, Platty, Bretton Woods, etc... either it's a small sample size coincidence or maybe the smaller places do this more often.   I rarely see it dependably at bigger places.


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Attitash this week:
> 
> View attachment 24726
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



that trail is always half groomed half bumps. There is a small cliff in there somewhere.


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Magic, Attitash, Platty, Bretton Woods, etc... either it's a small sample size coincidence or maybe the smaller places do this more often.   I rarely see it dependably at bigger places.


 I think White Heat at Sunday River used to be half bumps, half groomed.
Cannon's front five usually have one side on each trail bumped up as well


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## JimG. (Mar 7, 2019)

Belleayre is doing the half n' half on some terrain this season. 

I don't love it but it's better than a total mow.


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## cdskier (Mar 7, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Belleayre is doing the half n' half on some terrain this season.
> 
> I don't love it but it's better than a total mow.



Curious...which trails are they doing that on this season? I remember lower belleayre run was always like that. Trying to remember if any others were in the past back when I skied there regularly.


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## JimG. (Mar 7, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Curious...which trails are they doing that on this season? I remember lower belleayre run was always like that. Trying to remember if any others were in the past back when I skied there regularly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Upper and lower Belleayre run; Yahoo; and so far both Seneca and Onteora have been groomed side to side. 

Can't figure out if that's because of the thaw/freeze thing (which I understand) or because Bruce Transue is the GM now. I think it's a little of both. I did notice on Wednesday that the "moguls" signs are on top of Onteora and Tongora (which had also been groomed) now so bump season is upon us.


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## cdskier (Mar 7, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Upper and lower Belleayre run; Yahoo; and so far both Seneca and Onteora have been groomed side to side.
> 
> Can't figure out if that's because of the thaw/freeze thing (which I understand) or because Bruce Transue is the GM now. I think it's a little of both. I did notice on Wednesday that the "moguls" signs are on top of Onteora and Tongora (which had also been groomed) now so bump season is upon us.



Interesting. I definitely would not be a fan of either Seneca or onteora being groomed.

I never once saw tongora groomed either during the years I skied there.

Like you said, I’d understand if they did it due to thaw freeze. Otherwise if this is the new GM’s decision I don’t like it. The moguls at Belleayre on many of the trails you’re mentioning were some of my favorites and one of the things I really liked about Belle.


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## Kleetus (Mar 8, 2019)

The Moguls at Bellayre are the only thing that draws me there on occasion in the spring. They normally have some good ones. Have had quite a few days skiing bumps there in the spring where snow never softened up at Gore or WF, but was warmer further south and did at Bellayre so made the trip and was worth it.


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## skiur (Mar 8, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> I wish more places did this, at least on a few trails.
> 
> It allows differing levels of skiers in the same group/family better enjoy a run together.



I disagree, I dont like when places do that,  A bump run should be a bump run, and not made easy for people that cant ski it.  I guess on a few trails its ok but lots of places are doing this everywhere.  A bump run should rarely if ever be groomed and none of this half grooming nonsense.


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## ShadyGrove (Mar 8, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Looking forward to getting back to Magic on Sunday (and trying to figure out how to maximize my skiing as my son is taking a few race runs down Showoff, and not have it seem like i'm blowing him off to enjoy the rest of the mountain   )



This is where the green chair really shines.  You can mix in a west side lap and then ski to the green chair to head down Showoff and see your son race, without going all the way back to the top.


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## drjeff (Mar 8, 2019)

ShadyGrove said:


> This is where the green chair really shines.  You can mix in a west side lap and then ski to the green chair to head down Showoff and see your son race, without going all the way back to the top.



From the parent perspective, especially since most of the time that Showoff is the race hill is for the younger kids (U10's and U12's) the Green is a godsend as you don't have to try and "reason" with your kid about NOT riding up the Red in their race suits to get their coats/pants rather than wait for the coaches to being the coat bag down after the run is complete!  And at least the the last 6 years that my kids have been racing at Magic, the majority of their race days have been cold, blustery days, where riding the Red in a race suit is far from a warm thing!


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## cdskier (Mar 8, 2019)

skiur said:


> I disagree, I dont like when places do that,  A bump run should be a bump run, and not made easy for people that cant ski it.  I guess on a few trails its ok but lots of places are doing this everywhere.  A bump run should rarely if ever be groomed and none of this half grooming nonsense.



Depends entirely on the trail. Many of the bump runs at sugarbush I wouldn’t want half and half either as it would ruin the experience.

Some wider trails I think half and half is ok though. Just needs to be the right trail to support it properly.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 8, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Depends entirely on the trail. Many of the bump runs at sugarbush I wouldn’t want half and half either as it would ruin the experience.
> 
> Some wider trails I think half and half is ok though. Just needs to be the right trail to support it properly.
> 
> ...


+1

The trail I posted above from Attitash is like 150 feet wide.  It made sense.  The other bump runs there were all wall to wall and I wouldn't have wanted to see a half and half.  Probably the only trails that half and half would make sense at Sugarbush are Ripcord and Upper FIS.  Maybe Cliffs too for something lower angle. 

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## JimG. (Mar 8, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Interesting. I definitely would not be a fan of either Seneca or onteora being groomed.
> 
> I never once saw tongora groomed either during the years I skied there.
> 
> ...



It was the thaw/freeze. I went today and there are "moguls" signs in all the usual places. No more grooming.

Tongora had some really nasty ice bumps on it and needed a grooming.


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## rocks860 (Mar 9, 2019)

Today was great. Definitely a “firm” base but still a ton of fun. Found a new favorite glade in the hallows, a little scratchy but tons of snow in there.


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## Kleetus (Mar 9, 2019)

Hallows are a pick! Glad you enjoyed.

Maybe heading there tomorrow depending on how the winds shake out. If there are a few inches of wet snow, that should help soften the base!

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## rocks860 (Mar 9, 2019)

It was very warm today so hopefully there’s not a refreeze 


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## Vaughn (Mar 9, 2019)

Did you see the race?


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## rocks860 (Mar 9, 2019)

Saw bits and pieces and rode up on the red with a guy who had just done it


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 9, 2019)




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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2019)

Rode up with several interesting people yesterday too, going up as a single is always interesting especially at magic. Rode up once with a guy who works there with a big red mustache and I feel like a jerk because I can’t remember his name, super nice guy. Rode up another time with one of the investors but never caught his name.


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## Kleetus (Mar 10, 2019)

Today was awesome! 3-4" of snow throughout the day was just enough to cover up the very firm base underneath in the woods and on the ungroomed. Steep woods even skied really well. Skied more like 6" than 3"

Picks of the day were Seance, Black Line, Twilight Zone, and the Hallows. Talli and Sorcerer were great too. 

Green chair did it's thing handling the race, and red was pretty much ski on or a 1-5 chair wait. No wind to speak of really either.

Snow did change over to freezing drizzle and it started to fog in right before I left at 2:30, but snowed with good visibility otherwise.

Magic was my Plan B today due to the wind. Should have made it my Plan A all along! Glad to have gotten 2 great Magic days in so far this season. 

Hats off, as always, to the Magic crew for all the efforts to improve the mountain and keep it viable for the future. 

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## rocks860 (Mar 10, 2019)

Kleetus said:


> Today was awesome! 3-4" of snow throughout the day was just enough to cover up the very firm base underneath in the woods and on the ungroomed. Steep woods even skied really well. Skied more like 6" than 3"
> 
> Picks of the day were Seance, Black Line, Twilight Zone, and the Hallows. Talli and Sorcerer were great too.
> 
> ...



Hallows was great yesterday as well, I think it’s my new favorite spot


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## makimono (Mar 10, 2019)

RustyGroomer said:


> View attachment 24737



Dude you should post the whole series of pics...when I saw this last night I thought you were just standing on top of the waterfall, skiing it today I realize that's actually impossible. All those Bankman pics with the sunlight and the cave and the over-flight are awesome!


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## makimono (Mar 10, 2019)

Kleetus said:


> Today was awesome! 3-4" of snow throughout the day was just enough to cover up the very firm base underneath in the woods and on the ungroomed. Steep woods even skied really well. Skied more like 6" than 3"
> 
> Picks of the day were Seance, Black Line, Twilight Zone, and the Hallows. Talli and Sorcerer were great too.
> 
> ...



Yes! that 3" was huge. Had pockets of fresh tracks all day, both my forearms are bruised from bashing saplings like gates but that's the price you pay for the goods I guess.


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## Tin (Mar 10, 2019)

makimono said:


> Dude you should post the whole series of pics...when I saw this last night I thought you were just standing on top of the waterfall, skiing it today I realize that's actually impossible. All those Bankman pics with the sunlight and the cave and the over-flight are awesome!



That cliff-area is actually Bankman's home. He only recently moved out of the tree and stopped making cookies. Was great seeing you fishtail around today!


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## MMP (Mar 10, 2019)

Tin said:


> That cliff-area is actually Bankman's home. He only recently moved out of the tree and stopped making cookies. Was great seeing you fishtail around today!



That’s hilarious. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 11, 2019)

awesome day at magic yesterday. the 3-5" skied bigger in places. 

first runs of the day were total first tracks on talisman and then on black line. the hallows and the wardrobe skied tremendously. voodoo and the woods next to green line were still untracked after 1 PM. just a great great magic day. no crowds even with the racers. 

what a great place. my two magic days this year were the soft opening on november 23 with feet of fresh and i got the first chair of the season, and yesterday. great days.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 11, 2019)

TIN yesterday...


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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> awesome day at magic yesterday. the 3-5" skied bigger in places.
> 
> first runs of the day were total first tracks on talisman and then on black line. the hallows and the wardrobe skied tremendously. voodoo and the woods next to green line were still untracked after 1 PM. just a great great magic day. no crowds even with the racers.
> 
> what a great place. my two magic days this year were the soft opening on november 23 with feet of fresh and i got the first chair of the season, and yesterday. great days.


Ahh, so those were your tracks on Tali soon after opening bell! Me and my racer Dad friend I was skiing with yesterday had what looked to be 4th and 5th tracks down Tali yesterday morning. So much fun!

Black line, Scorcerer, lower Magician, and a bunch of trails who's names I just am not familiar with yesterday off the Green (which worked great for the race on Showoff!) were all just a blast.

My son getting up on stage for a race medal was the capper to a great day as well! 

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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 11, 2019)

yea i got pretty methodical with my lines yesterday. pretty much worked the mountain from west side to east side, starting with broomstick>black and then wizard>talisman. first chair on the red at 8:30 and first tracks down most west side trails. first down red line as well, which was awesome. skiied everything on the map and then some. normally at magic i head straight for the woods, but with the fresh + refills, the trails were skiing tremendously. i ended up taking a second lap thru the wardrobe at the end of the day, but otherwise, i just skied everything there is to ski at magic, once. had my 20k skied by 1 PM and was on the road by 1:30. stopped for a coffee in northampton, and was parking on my block in brooklyn at 6 PM. perfection.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 11, 2019)

makimono said:


> Dude you should post the whole series of pics...when I saw this last night I thought you were just standing on top of the waterfall, skiing it today I realize that's actually impossible. All those Bankman pics with the sunlight and the cave and the over-flight are awesome!



i tried. Hate this site for pics. 

Tails


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## MG Skier (Mar 12, 2019)

I meant to post yesterday, Magic on Sunday was worth every minute of the 3 hour drive for me including the "less skilled" drivers in the snow driving 35 on I-91 !!! I had my personal best day of the year skiing wise and even ventured onto a few trails I have never skied. Fresh snow was a bonus! It was much quieter than I expected.

Keep it up Magic!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 12, 2019)

Awesome couple of days for sure.

1st time skiing with this young ripper.  So fun.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 18, 2019)

From Magic Snow report: "For this week, we have a surprise opening on Friday–it will be a FREE FRIDAY SKI DAY open to all as we partner will Lycored (lycored.com) to offer a bonus free day of skiing and riding to everyone."

Sharp skis recommended. It looks unlikely that conditions will improve other than more grooming. They groomed the heck out of Talisman on Saturday.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 18, 2019)

Free free free, free, free free! :beer:


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 18, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> From Magic Snow report: "For this week, we have a surprise opening on Friday–it will be a FREE FRIDAY SKI DAY open to all as we partner will Lycored (lycored.com) to offer a bonus free day of skiing and riding to everyone."
> 
> Sharp skis recommended. It looks unlikely that conditions will improve other than more grooming. They groomed the heck out of Talisman on Saturday.



Grooming and hopefully a little snow Thursday Joe!


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 19, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> Grooming and hopefully a little snow Thursday Joe!
> 
> 
> I"ll be there! Bright orange pants, old and a bit hefty. What a combination.


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## urungus (Mar 22, 2019)

Hope some of you are out there enjoying the free day today.

I will be there tomorrow for the Spring Fling, which IMO is the funnest event of the year.  Looking forward to checking out the 1st annual shovel race, never seen one of those before.  Will the Sunshine Corner snow bar be open?


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## jaytrem (Mar 22, 2019)

Im here.  Look for twin 7 year old girls if anybody wants to say hello.  Great day so far! Thanks all!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 22, 2019)

East side glades this am.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 22, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> JamaicaMan said:
> 
> 
> > Grooming and hopefully a little snow Thursday Joe!
> ...


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## jaytrem (Mar 22, 2019)

Skied bell to bell, great day! Goniff and TZ bumps were sweet.  Westside glades were....intetesting.  Aim for the light, not much snow under the evergreens.


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## urungus (Mar 24, 2019)

Spring Fling on Saturday was amazing.  Funnest event of the year.  A few of the highlights:

- participated in the free timed race down Showoff and (barely) achieved my goal of not finishing last
- won T shirt in the Flamingo toss by hitting the target barrel from the Red Chair
- watched some participants in the 1st annual shovel race
- had a shot of warming cinnamon whiskey at the Sunshine Corner snow bar
- cut over from Black Line and skiied some sections in the middle of Red Line that I had never had the nerve to try before
- had some delicious BBQ on the back deck

Conditions were great, lots of soft snow on the natural trails, and in the afternoon the sun came out.  Only thing dicey I encountered was the first steep section on Witch, scoured down to almost pure ice by the wind.

Only complaint was there was so much stuff going on, I didn’t get to ski as much as I would have liked!


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 29, 2019)

Just a note for season pass holders. It looks like Magic will be a hard stop on 4/7. Hopefully that's because JamaicaMan wants to take the chips off the table with a profit! Bolton Valley looks to be open one more week and our passes are good. They got clobbered with the last snow also.


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 30, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> Just a note for season pass holders. It looks like Magic will be a hard stop on 4/7. Hopefully that's because JamaicaMan wants to take the chips off the table with a profit! Bolton Valley looks to be open one more week and our passes are good. They got clobbered with the last snow also.



This has been our closing date 3 years in a row since we purchased Magic and will be for the future unless there is an unusual early April powder day. Almost nobody comes, even pass holders, and even when we have almost all our terrain open. Makes no financial sense for a small business like ours. But we’re happy to go into April every year!


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## Kleetus (Mar 30, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> This has been our closing date 3 years in a row since we purchased Magic and will be for the future unless there is an unusual early April powder day. Almost nobody comes, even pass holders, and even when we have almost all our terrain open. Makes no financial sense for a small business like ours. But we’re happy to go into April every year!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Will not be there for next weekend, but hope you guys end up with a nice return for this year. If closing early allows that to happen, so be it (disclaimer not a passholder but only because of distance). Would rather Ski Magic another whole season than one more weekend in April!

You guys have done a great job bringing the mountain back to being viable again and with some nice improvements to boot.  My trips to Magic a few times each season normally end up in my top 10 days category, look forward to many more in the  seasons to come.

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## slatham (Mar 30, 2019)

Magic planning to be open on April 13&14th is foolish. There is just not the skier visits, the base could be gone (not this year), and regardless of the base the weather/skiing could suck. The first week of April is the most sensible closing date, knowing of course that JM and DW will open the next week if the skiing happens to be Magical.....

And this year, I think I'd rather have them start with the new Black Quad asap!


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## deadheadskier (Mar 30, 2019)

When does the new quad installation work begin?  All systems go for next year?  

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## JoeB-Z (Mar 30, 2019)

Absolutely agree. Very few people today and the skiing in the afternoon was not bad at all once visibility improved.


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## urungus (Mar 30, 2019)

The plan is to make the Black Chair the main workhorse next season, correct?  And Red will only be run as a backup?


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## MG Skier (Mar 30, 2019)

I skied Magic today, it was very quiet. I thought more folks would be skiing. The weather eventually cooperated and Tali was in great shape! Depending on the level of melting this week, next wek may proove to be challenging, a few trails will not make it another week. There was plenty of good skiing today once you could see a line to ski. Today was my last visit for the season for me. I will be back! I waved a goodbye to the Black Chair even though she didn’t turn this year the future is looking bright for her replacement. I am looking forward to watching the growth in the off season.


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## Handlebars (Mar 31, 2019)

Closed out my magic season last weekend with my third day there this year. Had a blast really getting to explore the place, including skiing a lot of terrain I don’t normally get to see or ski. As a passholder across the valley, I am super stoked at the huge investments in time, capital, and passion from the new ownership and magic faithful. It’s a gem and is absolutely needed for southern vt. 


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## pauldotcom (Mar 31, 2019)

I thought the plan was to replace the Black with the Quad they purchased from Stratton?


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## drjeff (Mar 31, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> I thought the plan was to replace the Black with the Quad they purchased from Stratton?


You can primarily thank the slow, arduous VT Act 250 permitting process for that quad spending this season out in the parking lot at Magic rather than hauling people up the hill....

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## WoodCore (Apr 1, 2019)

urungus said:


> The plan is to make the Black Chair the main workhorse next season, correct?  And Red will only be run as a backup?



Just the opposite from what I understand. Red will remain the workhorse and the quad will be used as the backup.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 1, 2019)

Why is that? Is it because you can run a double slightly faster than a quad?

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## urungus (Apr 1, 2019)

WoodCore said:


> Just the opposite from what I understand. Red will remain the workhorse and the quad will be used as the backup.



Quoting from the press release at https://unofficialnetworks.com/2018...owl-poma-quad-lift-heading-to-magic-mountain/

“Magic will operate the new quad as the primary summit lift every weekend and holiday period, with the famed Red Chair continuing as an additional lift on busy weekends plus pulling main duty on lighter traffic weekdays.”

Kind of a bummer from a nostalgia perspective.


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 1, 2019)

Once the new Quad goes in we’re going to tear the Red Chair down. Don’t need that lift. And the towers get in the way of skiers on Red Line 


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## deadheadskier (Apr 1, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> Once the new Quad goes in we’re going to tear the Red Chair down. Don’t need that lift. And the towers get in the way of skiers on Red Line
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Hmm, I forget today's date

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## cdskier (Apr 1, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Hmm, I forget today's date



  :beer:


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## MG Skier (Apr 1, 2019)

Nice play JamicaMan! 

I would imagine the power consumption is significantly lower running Red vs the New-to-You Quad. Right?


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 1, 2019)

MG Skier said:


> Nice play JamicaMan!
> 
> I would imagine the power consumption is significantly lower running Red vs the New-to-You Quad. Right?



Haha
Yes, it is. We actually have to buy a new transformer for the Quad as it is about twice the power consumption of the old Black Chair (when the damn thing actually ran)


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## WoodCore (Apr 1, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Why is that? Is it because you can run a double slightly faster than a quad?
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Exactly! Quite a bit faster.......


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## MG Skier (Apr 3, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> Haha
> Yes, it is. We actually have to buy a new transformer for the Quad as it is about twice the power consumption of the old Black Chair (when the damn thing actually ran)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Wow, one forgets how much work really goes into a lift removal and replacement. Considering the Black chair was DOA when your team took over and it "ran" 2017-18 at limited capacity, I certainly didn't see you guys dumping a ton of $$$ into it for a few weekends. Onward and upward! Think of the parking you will gain!


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## p_levert (Apr 3, 2019)

Couple of questions for JamaicaMan:

1. After looking at your season pass offerings, it seems like one option is missing.  How about a powder pass+?  This would be the powder pass plus Sundays.

2. How does the Freedom Pass look for the upcoming year?  This has always been sort of a fluid thing, where you don't really know who's in until November.  Can we expect more, or less, or about the same??


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 3, 2019)

p_levert said:


> Couple of questions for JamaicaMan:
> 
> 1. After looking at your season pass offerings, it seems like one option is missing.  How about a powder pass+?  This would be the powder pass plus Sundays.
> 
> 2. How does the Freedom Pass look for the upcoming year?  This has always been sort of a fluid thing, where you don't really know who's in until November.  Can we expect more, or less, or about the same??



1. You could buy our Sunday pass and a Powder Pass lol! Food for thought, though

2. Freedom went from 13 areas to 19 this last year, so I don’t see it going backward...


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## makimono (Apr 8, 2019)

Great closing day yesterday, some real Adventure Skiing done on Twilight Zone, Slide of Hans, White Kitten & Magic Carpet and my favorite Broomstick to Black Line: technical steep ice strip start, patch hopping middle and a creamy corn happy ending. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157293136851177
			




Love skiing with the rowdy Magic crew, already looking forward to next year!


----------



## Do Work (Apr 16, 2019)

Well, work is already well underway to remove the Black Chair and crews are already pulling out all the Snowbowl components for their upcoming fine-tooth-comb treatment.  

Anybody here score one of the Black chair triples when they went up for sale?  I got myself two (#7 & #77) for the fire pit in the yard!


----------



## MG Skier (Apr 16, 2019)

I wish I did!


----------



## drjeff (May 8, 2019)

Pretty cool announcement on Magic's social media feeds today that all the towers from the old black that are coming down have hit the ground, and that they're leaving 1 tower, that was just as the black crested the top of the pitch and headed across to the old unloading ramp.

Will be nice on a clear day looking up from the BLT after a day on the hill and seeing that piece of Magic history still standing! 

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## MG Skier (May 8, 2019)

I thought it was too! It will also be fun to watch them post as the new lift goes up!


----------



## p_levert (May 8, 2019)

Way to get after it JamaicaMan and Do Work!  I have been enjoying the chairlift porn


----------



## JamaicaMan (May 8, 2019)

p_levert said:


> Way to get after it JamaicaMan and Do Work!  I have been enjoying the chairlift porn



Blacktube 


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## Do Work (May 14, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Pretty cool announcement on Magic's social media feeds today that all the towers from the old black that are coming down have hit the ground, and that they're leaving 1 tower, that was just as the black crested the top of the pitch and headed across to the old unloading ramp.
> 
> Will be nice on a clear day looking up from the BLT after a day on the hill and seeing that piece of Magic history still standing!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app





One thing I want to point out that I haven't seen anybody excited about is the fact that the footings are being left- and there's a couple on Black Magic in particular that will provide an EPIC booter once covered in snow- we are talking MAJOR sendage!  Can't wait to see that get stomped on a STE Freeride weekend.


----------



## slatham (May 14, 2019)

Do Work said:


> One thing I want to point out that I haven't seen anybody excited about is the fact that the footings are being left- and there's a couple on Black Magic in particular that will provide an EPIC booter once covered in snow- we are talking MAJOR sendage!  Can't wait to see that get stomped on a STE Freeride weekend.



Ah, I did not realize the footings would remain. That could be fun, but I must admit it'll probably be more as a spectator. There's enough opportunity to get air on Black Magic without using a footing to aid my airtime!


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## slatham (Jun 23, 2019)

New Quad well underway....

Now the Act 250 approval for the snowmaking pond and other improvements is done! Wow what a slog fest for our friends at Magic, but perseverance does pay off eventually!

Time for, again, DO WORK!!


----------



## p_levert (Jun 25, 2019)

A few details on the snowmaking pond approval:

https://mailchi.mp/magicmtn/news-magic-mtn-gains-vt-act-250-approval

Great news!


----------



## urungus (Jun 25, 2019)

Congratulations to the Magic team, amazing job on the improvements over the last couple years.  Hopefully this will allow the West Side to open sooner ?


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## urungus (Jun 28, 2019)

One other thing I noticed in the most recent Alpine Update from Magic ... “our Quad Lift project (new upper trail has now been cut--and it's going to be another heart-pounding double black!”  I don’t remember hearing about this, where will this new trail be relative to Black Magic ?


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## chuckstah (Jun 28, 2019)

From Magic's Instagram upper left. 

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## ss20 (Jun 29, 2019)

Wow!  Looks just as nasty as the original!!!


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## urungus (Jun 30, 2019)

Thanks for posting the picture chuckstah.  Wonder what the new trail will be called.  I thought of ‘Conjurer’ and ‘Necromancer’, but ideally it would have ‘black’ in the name somewhere ...


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## urungus (Jun 30, 2019)

Wildcat has ‘Black Cat’ trail


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## urungus (Jul 1, 2019)

Black Cauldron?  Black Hat?


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## ss20 (Jul 1, 2019)

How about dedicating it to the new lift that has been needed for soooooo long?

"Quad Burner" is a great name of a trail under a quad chairlift...Geoff when can I expect my free lift ticket as payment to use this name?


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## Newpylong (Jul 1, 2019)

"Voodoo" aka Black Magic of another name.


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## slatham (Jul 1, 2019)

Voodoo is already a glade.

I like Quad Burner, but its not keeping with the "Magic" theme.

They need to have an official contest.


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## urungus (Jul 1, 2019)

When was the last time any New England resort cut a new double black trail (putting a new name on an existing unnamed glade doesn’t count) ?  Was is Ripsaw at Loon back in 2008 ?


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## NYDB (Jul 1, 2019)

Just call it black line.  or upper black line if you want to up the trail count by 1.

or

Black Death
Black Mamba
Cauldron
Eye of Newt
Lizards Leg
Black Coven
Pitch Black
Back in Black

Snowbowl Alley

Quadzilla


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## sugarbushskier (Jul 1, 2019)

Joker!


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 1, 2019)

ss20 said:


> How about dedicating it to the new lift that has been needed for soooooo long?
> 
> "Quad Burner" is a great name of a trail under a quad chairlift...Geoff when can I expect my free lift ticket as payment to use this name?



In the mail ;-)


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 1, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> Just call it black line.  or upper black line if you want to up the trail count by 1.
> 
> or
> 
> ...



Pitch Black ain’t bad...

We will have a vote eventually I’m sure, which I’m also sure will undoubtedly be overruled!

Keep em coming...


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## Newpylong (Jul 1, 2019)

Pitch Black aint bad at all.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Jul 1, 2019)

+1 more for Pitch Black, for now at least.


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## Abominable (Jul 2, 2019)

Pitch Black - nice!


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## BenedictGomez (Jul 2, 2019)

Meh, Pitch Black has no magical connotation to it.

I'd submit: 

Warlock (because it's basically next to Witch, right?). It would be cool to have Witch & Warlock side by side.


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## urungus (Jul 2, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Meh, Pitch Black has no magical connotation to it.
> 
> I'd submit:
> 
> Warlock (because it's basically next to Witch, right?). It would be cool to have Witch & Warlock side by side.



There is already a “Warlock” trail (glades next to Green Line).


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## BenedictGomez (Jul 2, 2019)

urungus said:


> There is already a “Warlock” trail (glades next to Green Line).




Oh yeah, duh!

Then I'd go with: Abracadabra (because it's both fun to say and relates to Magic).


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## slatham (Jul 6, 2019)

Lots of progress on the mountain.







Several lift tower bases dug out looking up Hocus Pocus.






Including the base terminal.






The holes for the lift towers are huge. The back part is well overhead.






Summit lift line looking down from area near summit terminal of old Black.

Below, looking up.






Several towers on Green lift have been painted, and the bottom and top terminals have nice load/unload platforms for weddings and fall foliage rides.

Tavern looking good and beer cold and tasty.







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## A_B (Jul 7, 2019)

JamaicaMan said:


> Pitch Black ain’t bad...
> 
> We will have a vote eventually I’m sure, which I’m also sure will undoubtedly be overruled!
> 
> ...



How about Sirius Black

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Black

Or just Sirius

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius


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## Not Sure (Jul 7, 2019)

Tophat ?

When I hear Pitch Black I think of the  Vin Diesel  movie.


----------



## NYDB (Jul 7, 2019)

Smell the glove.


Or maybe;   none......none more black

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## jaytrem (Jul 7, 2019)

How about Snow Bowl?


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## Dickc (Jul 7, 2019)

Call it Quadruple Magic.


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## Scruffy (Jul 7, 2019)

Alchemy ? 

_noun_
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]



the medieval forerunner of chemistry, based on the supposed transformation of matter. It was concerned particularly with attempts to convert base metals into gold or to find a universal elixir.

synonyms:chemistry; magic, sorcery, witchcraft, enchantment
"they were involved with the quest for immortality through alchemy"







a seemingly magical process of transformation, creation, or combination.


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## mtl1076 (Jul 9, 2019)

Quaddy Mcquad face?


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## slatham (Jul 9, 2019)

Pitch Black to me just means it's dark out..... What about "Pitched Black"?

Must say I do like Sirius Black on multiple levels. Do we need to worry about JKR and copy rights?

I also like Alchemy, though not for this trail - not strong enough. Perhaps "Alchemy Glade" for one of the unnamed glades that Magic wants to put on the map?


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## drjeff (Jul 9, 2019)

I would say that in keeping with the old school naming, since if 1 is honest I think they'll agree that most everyone will call the new quad "The Black" just like they call the Red chair "The Red" and the Green Chair "The Green" just keep it simple and call it "The Black Chair" (And then home that it doesn't create some social justice stir about it's name  )


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jul 9, 2019)

Levitation


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## slatham (Jul 9, 2019)

drjeff said:


> I would say that in keeping with the old school naming, since if 1 is honest I think they'll agree that most everyone will call the new quad "The Black" just like they call the Red chair "The Red" and the Green Chair "The Green" just keep it simple and call it "The Black Chair" (And then home that it doesn't create some social justice stir about it's name  )



Don’t think there is any question the chair is The Black Chair. Question is the name for the new trail under the upper section of the chair. 


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## IceEidolon (Jul 13, 2019)

I’m glad to hear the Act 250 for expanded / off stream water storage finally went through. I was curious how much of a difference that could make, so I measured full coverage side-to-side on some core snowmaking trails, then using a 180,000 gallons per acre-foot conversion I worked out how much water is required to get an 18” base on those trails. Obviously this doesn’t take into account any natural snowfall, and by not going wall to wall or using a bit less depth these numbers can be lowered.

For a Green Lift Green Trail, you need Wand → Hocus Pocus → Base Area. That’s a solid 318,000 square feet, or 11 acre-feet at 18” depth. Trick and Upper Magic Carpet bring that to 22.3 acre-feet. Talisman and enough of Wizard to connect it takes another 8.1 acre-feet of snow, the race team wants Show Off at 9.6 acre feet – that one’s only 75% width - and putting the rest of Wizard and Lower Magic Carpet in the mix brings the total to 51.8 acre-feet of snowmaking to cover about 34 acres of trail. I know I skipped the Tube Park, Little Dipper, and several others, but I think I covered the core trails.

If the snowmaking pond didn’t refill – it does, but for illustration purposes – then previously there was only 25 acre-feet of water available, just enough to cover Trick, Upper Magic Carpet, Wand, Hocus Pocus, the base area. Double that amount and it’s within spitting distance of covering every trail I listed, without any kind of refilling. My read is that they can pump some water into the pond, and I assume there’s also some meltwater or runoff that’ll help replenish it. Along with the improved pumps, compressors, and snowguns added in the last couple seasons, this should let Magic take maximum advantage of every snowmaking opportunity.


As for the trail name, if Black Pitch doesn’t win out, I like Dark Portent, Ritual, or Superstition. When a named glade goes into that area I suggest Black Cat.


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## Tin (Jul 14, 2019)

IceEidolon said:


> For a Green Lift Green Trail, you need Wand → Hocus Pocus → Base Area. That’s a solid 318,000 square feet, or 11 acre-feet at 18” depth. Trick and Upper Magic Carpet bring that to 22.3 acre-feet. Talisman and enough of Wizard to connect it takes another 8.1 acre-feet of snow, the race team wants Show Off at 9.6 acre feet – that one’s only 75% width - and putting the rest of Wizard and Lower Magic Carpet in the mix brings the total to 51.8 acre-feet of snowmaking to cover about 34 acres of trail. I know I skipped the Tube Park, Little Dipper, and several others, but I think I covered the core trails.



18" of base? That's Killington speak. 8-10" on bare ground and everything on the East Side gets skied + Tali and some dumb shit taking photos for Instagram tries out Red Line and destroys it.


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## Newpylong (Jul 14, 2019)

12-18" is usually the industry goal for snowmaking depths, towards the higher side for core routes. Even more for race depth.


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## slatham (Jul 15, 2019)

Do Work should chime in here on targeted man made base depth before moving to next trail. I'll take the over on 18" for core trails.

Re: Water: My read of Act 250 is they can tap the "unnamed tributary" that is being taken offline, and Thompsonburg Creek, in both cases assuming adequate flow.

Pond also gets intake from the Blue Gentian Pond and some base/parking area's that don't flow into the unnamed tributary.


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## Do Work (Jul 16, 2019)

slatham said:


> Do Work should chime in here on targeted man made base depth before moving to next trail. I'll take the over on 18" for core trails.
> 
> Re: Water: My read of Act 250 is they can tap the "unnamed tributary" that is being taken offline, and Thompsonburg Creek, in both cases assuming adequate flow.
> 
> Pond also gets intake from the Blue Gentian Pond and some base/parking area's that don't flow into the unnamed tributary.




Every trail needs different amounts- and for different reasons.  Showoff sees probably 24" or more because of the sheer volume of races on it throughout the season, but we only put about 18" on Tali for those races strictly for monetary reasons.  We've been dialing in really tight this past season, because "winning at snowmaking" is basically making the exact amount you need to have through closing weekend, and not a flake more or less.  Big slabs of snow that sit for weeks on random trails are essentially monuments to wasted money, so learning the ways the mountain needs and holds snow is pretty important to making smart decisions in succession and not every trail needs or should have X amount.  

Big meetings all this week to keep these projects moving, and everything is looking great.  Really exciting seeing it all coming together!


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## slatham (Aug 26, 2019)

Summer recon mission #2 this past weekend. Footings done for base terminal, all the towers up Hocus Pocus and some on lower section of Black Line, plus a couple up top too. Looks like summit terminal and towers in steeper section still to go.

Tower up top. 





Looking down as the trail steepens. Notice a hole for a tower, and how the trail drops off out of view. Nice pitch!






Looking up from same spot at another hole for a tower, and a tower mold in background (all were filled with cement)





No activity on the pond, though the new intake for refilling from Thompsonburg Brook is done. Even without pond improvements this should give them plenty of water IMO.

Also the work road, with the work they did and all the traffic, is much less a rock garden and is much easier to hike, and much easier to cover with snow. 

Nice chat with Do Work - he’s got a bunch of work on his plate for the upcoming season. He is dialed in and pushing hard! Great to see the Mountian ops in his hands. 

Oh and the beers at the BLT are still cold and tasty. 


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## WoodCore (Aug 27, 2019)

slatham said:


> Looking down as the trail steepens. Notice a hole for a tower, and how the trail drops off out of view. Nice pitch!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What's that I see on the right side mid point of the photo???


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## slatham (Aug 31, 2019)

WoodCore said:


> What's that I see on the right side mid point of the photo???



Good question- we wondered the same. Did not investigate but it does look like a traverse may have been cut over from Witch or upper, closed section of   Red Line? Do Work or Jamaica Man  will have to chime in (or someone who has hiked into that area)


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 2, 2019)

slatham said:


> Good question- we wondered the same. Did not investigate but it does look like a traverse may have been cut over from Witch or upper, closed section of   Red Line? Do Work or Jamaica Man  will have to chime in (or someone who has hiked into that area)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Access for equipment for trail clearing


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## slatham (Sep 9, 2019)

First volunteer day this Saturday 9/14 (others are the 28th and 10/12). If you want to learn some of the mountains secrets, you have to help create (or clean) them! Good group of peeps plus beers, burgers, and inside scoop from JM & Do Work. And of course much anticipation for an awesome winter.


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## MG Skier (Sep 10, 2019)

slatham said:


> First volunteer day this Saturday 9/14 (others are the 28th and 10/12). If you want to learn some of the mountains secrets, you have to help create (or clean) them! Good group of peeps plus beers, burgers, and inside scoop from JM & Do Work. And of course much anticipation for an awesome winter.



I wish I could make it. I teach fall competitive marching band....please let me know if you do a Sunday.


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## ShadyGrove (Sep 12, 2019)

MG Skier said:


> I wish I could make it. I teach fall competitive marching band....please let me know if you do a Sunday.



This one time, at band camp....


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## NYDB (Sep 12, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> Just call it black line.  or upper black line if you want to up the trail count by 1.
> 
> or
> 
> ...


So what do I win?

Free 'lunch' at Jelley's?

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## JamaicaMan (Sep 12, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> So what do I win?
> 
> Free 'lunch' at Jelley's?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using AlpineZone mobile app



They do serve a fine selection of “lunch”


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## urungus (Sep 12, 2019)

Just to clue everyone in ... NY Dirtbag’s “Pitch Black” was chosen as the name of the new double black diamond trail


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## p_levert (Sep 13, 2019)

urungus said:


> Just to clue everyone in ... NY Dirtbag’s “Pitch Black” was chosen as the name of the new double black diamond trail



I'm guessing that other people suggested Pitch Black as well.

If NYDB was truly the only one, well, then he should be suitably praised and given some sort of freebie.


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## slatham (Sep 13, 2019)

p_levert said:


> I'm guessing that other people suggested Pitch Black as well.
> 
> If NYDB was truly the only one, well, then he should be suitably praised and given some sort of freebie.



No there were multiple people who suggested Pitch Black (or Pitched Black). They then ran a survey for season pass holders (or was it the full mailing list?) and Pitch Black was voted the winner.


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## NYDB (Sep 13, 2019)

slatham said:


> No there were multiple people who suggested Pitch Black (or Pitched Black). They then ran a survey for season pass holders (or was it the full mailing list?) and Pitch Black was voted the winner.



I don't see any references to Pitch Black trail name prior to my 7/1/19 post.  Everyone else (the 18 people who read alpinezone) just copied off my brilliant idea.


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## Smellytele (Sep 13, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> I don't see any references to Pitch Black trail name prior to my 7/1/19 post.  Everyone else (the 18 people who read alpinezone) just copied off my brilliant idea.




Yes you are king shit of turd island and win a cuppie doll.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 13, 2019)

I dont like the name because it doesnt have to do with Magic.

#SomebodyHadToSayIt


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## Newpylong (Sep 14, 2019)

There are several East Side trails with even less reference. Sometimes you run out of suitable strictly themed names and need to branch out, slightly.


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## Harvey (Sep 14, 2019)

Do Work said:


> Big slabs of snow that sit for weeks on random trails are essentially monuments to wasted money, so learning the ways the mountain needs and holds snow is pretty important to making smart decisions in succession and not every trail needs or should have X amount.



This is something I have always wondered about.  If I was in charge it would keep me up at night.


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## ss20 (Sep 14, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> There are several East Side trails with even less reference. Sometimes you run out of suitable strictly themed names and need to branch out, slightly.



Just like at Windham how every trail name begins with the letter "W"...they ran out of idea looong ago...


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## slatham (Sep 16, 2019)

Good turnout for VD#1 given an off weekend (not summer, not foliage season) and rain forecasted (very little/non factor). Probably a dozen guys/gals plus 6 or so kids were up on the Mountain. Rangers shuttled people up to top of Red and we spent 5 hours heading down the east side. First shot is a new glade that ops team had already chain sawed. 












We also cleared a small line to skiers left of the larger area they had chain sawed. The exit is a little tight....






We then headed down to another new glade where they had chain sawed the bigger stuff. Small entry widens out with another quick hitter. Cliff bands skiers right (to left on pic). Definite huck potential once snow has filled in. This one is easy to find as long as you take a green “through the woods” hint hint.....






We then hit Wishbone to clear out fallen trees etc. and widen it in a few spots. Same for White Kitten. Below that we went into another unnamed glade that I hadn’t skied in a few years and was amazed at how cleared out in had become. We furthered that cause and it’s tops on my list for this season.

Finished up in Disappearing Act and cleared out some fallen trees.

We then enjoyed some free beer and burgers (pic from Magic)....






Some action on the Quad as they were working on the two base terminal supports. Looks like those will go in soon. Also looks like all the towers are painted in the lot. Still some cement work needed on a few of the tower bases in steeper area. Fingers crossed they can get it done. 


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 16, 2019)

Glade creation (a.k.a.  _doing God's work_).


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## urungus (Oct 1, 2019)

Magic Throwback cards (which allow you to purchase lift tickets for $29) are now on sale.  First 100 are only $99.  Took me a couple attempts as the server is overloaded this morning.
https://magicmtn.com/product/throwback-card/


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## machski (Oct 1, 2019)

urungus said:


> Magic Throwback cards (which allow you to purchase lift tickets for $29) are now on sale.  First 100 are only $99.  Took me a couple attempts as the server is overloaded this morning.
> https://magicmtn.com/product/throwback-card/


Magic updated on FB that due to the server overload, they are going over the 100 at that price and will offer Throwback cards at $99 ALL DAY TODAY, not limiting the #!!!

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## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 1, 2019)

That's great!


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## drjeff (Oct 1, 2019)

machski said:


> Magic updated on FB that due to the server overload, they are going over the 100 at that price and will offer Throwback cards at $99 ALL DAY TODAY, not limiting the #!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Short version... Magic will likely make 15,000 in sales today instead of 10,000 in sales today. Whether or not there was some thought behind this  ahead of time by marketing/administration is a topic that should only be discussed over a few rounds at the BLT! ;-)


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## mgalluzz (Oct 7, 2019)

February 3rd will be free at Magic Mountain courtesy of No Boundaries: https://www.skinoboundaries.com/free-day


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## JoeB-Z (Oct 7, 2019)

And also nice that they will be open that Monday even if you have a pass.


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## mgalluzz (Oct 7, 2019)

JoeB-Z said:


> And also nice that they will be open that Monday even if you have a pass.



In working with Kerry over at Magic, it sounds like they were actually considering opening that day, but they liked the idea of what we were doing so much that they decided to let us hold the event instead.  We're also going to be raising money for a local charity that helps get underprivileged kids on the slopes.  It should be a fantastic day.


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## NYDB (Oct 7, 2019)

Cool for everyone with no pass and a worthwhile cause for sure.


 But for passholders I think They have been open superbowl Monday the past couple of years anyway.


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## slatham (Oct 7, 2019)

mgalluzz said:


> In working with Kerry over at Magic, it sounds like they were actually considering opening that day, but they liked the idea of what we were doing so much that they decided to let us hold the event instead.  We're also going to be raising money for a local charity that helps get underprivileged kids on the slopes.  It should be a fantastic day.



Great idea to combo it up and let everyone enjoy. Can you pass info on the charity? Great to help people get out and enjoy winter.


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## mgalluzz (Oct 7, 2019)

We've got it down to two potential charity partners.  Hopefully should have it decided within the next couple of weeks.  I'll be sure to pass it along once we know.


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 7, 2019)

I'm curious who fits the definition of "underprivileged".


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## ShadyGrove (Oct 7, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> I'm curious who fits the definition of "underprivileged".



Plenty of local kids in the Londonderry area fit that definition.


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 13, 2019)

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## JamaicaMan (Oct 13, 2019)

Nice job yesterday by the glade work crew after some big set up clearing by DoWork & Jeremy Thurs/Fri [emoji482]This one just got a whole lot better!


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## tumbler (Oct 15, 2019)

I saw that the new quad is hoping to be ready for MLK?  Is this an inside install or is Poma contracted?


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## slatham (Oct 15, 2019)

As I understand it, Pfister Mountain Services. Same firm that did the Green Lift.


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## hughconway (Oct 16, 2019)

tumbler said:


> I saw that the new quad is hoping to be ready for MLK?  Is this an inside install or is Poma contracted?



I think Magic is a great mountain, and from what I have seen & heard the new ownership has really been doing a great job.  That said, I don't think there is a snowballs chance in he|| that the new quad is done for this season.  Same installers took 2 years to do the green double mid mountain lift, and that already had the towers in place.  Unless I am mistaken, they have yet to install towers or the top & bottom bullwheels.  Sorry for the skepticism, but I am a realist.


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## icecoast1 (Oct 16, 2019)

hughconway said:


> I think Magic is a great mountain, and from what I have seen & heard the new ownership has really been doing a great job.  That said, I don't think there is a snowballs chance in he|| that the new quad is done for this season.  Same installers took 2 years to do the green double mid mountain lift, and that already had the towers in place.  Unless I am mistaken, they have yet to install towers or the top & bottom bullwheels.  Sorry for the skepticism, but I am a realist.




the green lift was partially constructed and then left to decay for years.  That's a totally different installation process then putting up a new (to them) lift that was in proper working order.  You can't even compare the two


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## tumbler (Oct 16, 2019)

hughconway said:


> I think Magic is a great mountain, and from what I have seen & heard the new ownership has really been doing a great job.  That said, I don't think there is a snowballs chance in he|| that the new quad is done for this season.  Same installers took 2 years to do the green double mid mountain lift, and that already had the towers in place.  Unless I am mistaken, they have yet to install towers or the top & bottom bullwheels.  Sorry for the skepticism, but I am a realist.



That's why I was asking.  It will be a game changer when done but a budget is a budget it appears.


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## slatham (Oct 16, 2019)

tumbler said:


> That's why I was asking.  It will be a game changer when done but a budget is a budget it appears.



Hum, never thought of delays being the result of budget issues, and certainly haven't heard that, but I guess possible. Delays as I have heard them are due to issues that have come up during the process (issues with the ledge requiring more blasting for instance). 

Magic doesn't "need" the quad until MLK, which is 3 months away. Killington finished North Ridge around October 1st. Where were they on July 1st as a comparison? All I can find on social media is a post on July 30th that they were pouring tower bases. Not apples to apples obviously (Black is 19 towers vs 9, more challenging terrain, much longer), but 2 months later they were done. So I still think it very possible the quad can be running by MLK but it will be tight. I hope no other unplanned issues arise.


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## ss20 (Oct 16, 2019)

I don't like that Magic gets a pass for late lift construction.  Felt the same way with the Green lift even with the contractor passing.  If this was a major resort and a main lift wasn't going to be completed til MLK weekend this forum would have bashed and bashed to no end.  IMO a promise to your customers is a promise no matter how big or small your business is.  Green was more understandable as it had been sitting and rotting away but I don't really get how this chair can fall so far behind schedule given it was open and running 10 miles away two years ago.  

Personally I do not have a Magic pass so I've got no skin in the game, and I will still definitely visit Magic this season with or without Black.


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## NYDB (Oct 16, 2019)

I don't think they get a 'full pass' if the lift doesn't spin this year, but assuming red remains reliable and green spins when needed, I can deal. Disappointing  yes, but there was no black lift last year either so......

Bottom line is that I appreciate them actually going for the full lift replacement instead of continual patching of the old lift.  Couple that with the overall improvements over the last 3 years with new ownership and management and I'll give them a 'half pass'.  



Sent from my SM-G973U using AlpineZone mobile app


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## drjeff (Oct 16, 2019)

Didn't the lift that replaced the new black, the Snowbowl HSQ at Stratton, not get finished until almost MLK weekend last year? 

Coincidence?? Who cares!

Props to Magic for pulling this off, regardless of when it finally spins

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 16, 2019)

As always at Magic, the safe money is on Red.

Black always seems to be a bit of a long shot.

But we’ve already got a lot of money on it, so we are letting it ride!!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## hughconway (Oct 17, 2019)

I'm sure the people who invested in season passes with the promise of a reliable chairlift to the top will be thrilled to hear that the quad is now being considered a 'long shot' for this season.  Bait & switch much?

In the (likely?) event that this chairlift will not be ready, will Magic be willing to refund season pass holders?  What about the people who purchase 'White Out' passes so they can actually ski on holiday weekends instead of spending half of their day waiting in a liftline?

I spoke with a friend who is a Magic 'regular' last night and skis there with his family every weekend and he mentioned that they usually give up on skiing and hit the bar on holiday weekends around 10am due to long lift lines when the red double is the only way to the top of the mountain.


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## JamaicaMan (Oct 17, 2019)

hughconway said:


> I'm sure the people who invested in season passes with the promise of a reliable chairlift to the top will be thrilled to hear that the quad is now being considered a 'long shot' for this season.  Bait & switch much?
> 
> In the (likely?) event that this chairlift will not be ready, will Magic be willing to refund season pass holders?  What about the people who purchase 'White Out' passes so they can actually ski on holiday weekends instead of spending half of their day waiting in a liftline?
> 
> I spoke with a friend who is a Magic 'regular' last night and skis there with his family every weekend and he mentioned that they usually give up on skiing and hit the bar on holiday weekends around 10am due to long lift lines when the red double is the only way to the top of the mountain.



Just a long shot for Christmas week which was the original install goal although that’s still the objective of the contractor. So my conservative bet would be in early January, in time for the big MLK weekend, similar to Green Lift last year.

Red and Green will keep us going like last year until it’s ready but it is coming. Sorry I can’t give you an exact date as just too many variables as we’ve seen all along the way with an install this big. So that’s my skepticism for Christmas week. But will keep everyone posted as we know more from our contractors. (And despite the increase in budget, money is not slowing the project at all—purely logistical issues relating to the difficult terrain and a few sub contractor issues.)

Never a dull moment.



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## drjeff (Oct 17, 2019)

hughconway said:


> I'm sure the people who invested in season passes with the promise of a reliable chairlift to the top will be thrilled to hear that the quad is now being considered a 'long shot' for this season.  Bait & switch much?
> 
> In the (likely?) event that this chairlift will not be ready, will Magic be willing to refund season pass holders?  What about the people who purchase 'White Out' passes so they can actually ski on holiday weekends instead of spending half of their day waiting in a liftline?
> 
> I spoke with a friend who is a Magic 'regular' last night and skis there with his family every weekend and he mentioned that they usually give up on skiing and hit the bar on holiday weekends around 10am due to long lift lines when the red double is the only way to the top of the mountain.


Just curious as to where you're hearing that the new Black Quad likely won't be ready for this season at all? 

All of the information that I have seen Magic themselves post is saying essentially early January. That's 10 weeks from now. That's plenty of time to get the lift up and running. Towers, drives, haul rope, com lines, and hanging chairs in the big scheme of things doesn't take very long to do. Once the last of the footings is poured and properly cured, the finished product comes together fairly quickly

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## skiur (Oct 17, 2019)

hughconway said:


> I'm sure the people who invested in season passes with the promise of a reliable chairlift to the top will be thrilled to hear that the quad is now being considered a 'long shot' for this season.  Bait & switch much?
> 
> In the (likely?) event that this chairlift will not be ready, will Magic be willing to refund season pass holders?  What about the people who purchase 'White Out' passes so they can actually ski on holiday weekends instead of spending half of their day waiting in a liftline?
> 
> I spoke with a friend who is a Magic 'regular' last night and skis there with his family every weekend and he mentioned that they usually give up on skiing and hit the bar on holiday weekends around 10am due to long lift lines when the red double is the only way to the top of the mountain.




A ski resort with long lift lines during a holiday week?  Your gonna bitch about this? Come on man.....every ski resort has long lines during holiday weeks.  Somebody seems awful entitled, come back to the real world.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 17, 2019)

skiur said:


> A ski resort with long lift lines during a holiday week?  Your gonna bitch about this? Come on man.....every ski resort has long lines during holiday weeks.  Somebody seems awful entitled, come back to the real world.



He specifically mentioned the friend gives up skiing holiday weekends back when the red chair was the only thing running.  That's not a crazy position to have.


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## skithetrees (Oct 17, 2019)

hughconway said:


> I'm sure the people who invested in season passes with the promise of a reliable chairlift to the top will be thrilled to hear that the quad is now being considered a 'long shot' for this season.  Bait & switch much?
> 
> In the (likely?) event that this chairlift will not be ready, will Magic be willing to refund season pass holders?  What about the people who purchase 'White Out' passes so they can actually ski on holiday weekends instead of spending half of their day waiting in a liftline?
> 
> I spoke with a friend who is a Magic 'regular' last night and skis there with his family every weekend and he mentioned that they usually give up on skiing and hit the bar on holiday weekends around 10am due to long lift lines when the red double is the only way to the top of the mountain.



Lol. I don’t ski anywhere holiday weeks for this very reason. If you think Magic is unique you are delusional. Either way, I would still rather ski at Magic down a lift on a holiday than anywhere else. At least I won’t have to worry about some Joey on a crowded slope hitting me or my kids although it does seem that some show up every year.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 17, 2019)

It'll be Red AND Green when it's busy, not just Red. At least until Black is complete. Shouldn't be a problem.


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## urungus (Oct 17, 2019)

Personally I will be sad when the Black chair opens and good old Red moves into semi-retirement.


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## Killingtime (Oct 17, 2019)

skiur said:


> A ski resort with long lift lines during a holiday week?  Your gonna bitch about this? Come on man.....every ski resort has long lines during holiday weeks.  Somebody seems awful entitled, come back to the real world.



Hahaha yeah I've given up once or twice at K on a Presidents Day weekend and just chilled back at the condo in front of the tv. It comes with the territory sometimes but I understand his frustration. More motivation to get out super early and hit it before the crowds show up.


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## MG Skier (Oct 17, 2019)

So, I bought a Blackout Pass at Magic last season 18-19, even after the old Black Chair gave up the ghost. Ironically the times I had to ski were holiday periods. (I agree skiing the holidays can be tricky. Hell, I am usually at Jay on Holidays....WOWZAH talk about lines!) 

OK,  so Green took a little longer, think of it like buying a partially restored car in boxes, it takes a while to sort it all out, redo what work was done, and then make it a turn key and inspected lift etc. It significantly was a game changer for Magic and the line at Red once Green was spinning.

As far as Black goes, I like to think my Full Season Pass helped "grease the wheels on the sheave trains" to make it happen for Magic this year. Lets hope weather cooperates, concrete does its curing thing and the remaining processes go smoothly. Hell, I am happy to ride Red and Green until St Pats if needed, but MLK weekend is fine with me. 

I don't need high speed, sadly I need the recovery time on the chair.......hence Magic.

It took me a long time to find a place that I consider my home mountain. (And a tolerable 3 hour ride.)

Thanks Magic, hammer down and make it happen!


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## RustyGroomer (Oct 22, 2019)

Love reading this MG Skier.  We're gonna shred together this year.


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 22, 2019)

i bought a magic 4 pack last week before the deadline

i am now ikon + magic 4 pack. i hope to round that out with a champlain valley card. then i'm done. 

winter park 12/23-30 is booked and fully paid for. may do a day at copper if the new lift is running that week. we looked into dog sledding and were bummed to find that the local operation in winter park is closing, and they gave us strong words about not using their successor, claiming they mistreat the dogs. dont know if this is sour grapes or legit. we did dog sledding near breck last year and absolutely loved it. amazing experience. my non skier girlfriend really wants to do it again. she doesnt understand how big co is tho, and is now looking at next closest options, which are near steamboat, which would necessarily eat an entire ski day for me. really wishing we had a more local option. going back to breck could work i guess if i ski a morning only and we get a late afternoon sled ride. 

utah 2/7-16 is booked and fully paid for (deer valley x 1, alta/bird x 4, brighton/solitude x2, powmow x 2). may split powmow and do 1 at snowbasin

will throw in a long weekend at a-basin or crystal, and i'll be all set. 

i love paying for most of my season before it starts.


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 22, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i love paying for most of my season before it starts.



It's a wonderful feeling. Of course if the great firey ball in the sky hits us in or before February, we're out half our $ (and half a season). But then I think we'll be on to other things besides skiing.


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## mgalluzz (Oct 22, 2019)

slatham said:


> Great idea to combo it up and let everyone enjoy. Can you pass info on the charity? Great to help people get out and enjoy winter.



Not sure if you caught this, but we recently announced the charity.  It's Youth Enrichment Services (YES).  They're based out of the Boston area (where we got our start) and they get hundreds of kids to the mountains each year.  Hopefully with the money we raise they can get hundreds more!  More details to come on how we're raising funds, but for now we linked their website on the event page: https://www.skinoboundaries.com/free-day


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## crazy (Oct 22, 2019)

mgalluzz said:


> Not sure if you caught this, but we recently announced the charity.  It's Youth Enrichment Services (YES).  They're based out of the Boston area (where we got our start) and they get hundreds of kids to the mountains each year.  Hopefully with the money we raise they can get hundreds more!  More details to come on how we're raising funds, but for now we linked their website on the event page: https://www.skinoboundaries.com/free-day



I want to give a big thanks to you and to Magic for the free day in February. I'm excited to check out Magic. 

Any idea about when you will post the 2019/2019 Ski No Boundaries deals?


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## MG Skier (Oct 23, 2019)

RustyGroomer said:


> Love reading this MG Skier.  We're gonna shred together this year.



Sounds like a plan, looking forward to the white gold falling!!

PS, I shred slow!


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## slatham (Oct 23, 2019)

mgalluzz said:


> Not sure if you caught this, but we recently announced the charity.  It's Youth Enrichment Services (YES).  They're based out of the Boston area (where we got our start) and they get hundreds of kids to the mountains each year.  Hopefully with the money we raise they can get hundreds more!  More details to come on how we're raising funds, but for now we linked their website on the event page: https://www.skinoboundaries.com/free-day



Any coordination with local groups and/or schools for the local kids to take advantage?


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## mgalluzz (Oct 23, 2019)

crazy said:


> I want to give a big thanks to you and to Magic for the free day in February. I'm excited to check out Magic.
> 
> Any idea about when you will post the 2019/2019 Ski No Boundaries deals?



Thanks, we're excited too!  We should have the weekend daily deals out by the beginning of November, but we'll have two ski and stay deals out within the next week (hopefully).


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## mgalluzz (Oct 23, 2019)

slatham said:


> Any coordination with local groups and/or schools for the local kids to take advantage?



I would love to do something like that with the local schools, just haven't had the time to coordinate anything yet.  If you, or anyone, has any contacts that would be great.


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## slatham (Oct 23, 2019)

mgalluzz said:


> I would love to do something like that with the local schools, just haven't had the time to coordinate anything yet.  If you, or anyone, has any contacts that would be great.



Kerry at Magic is best place to start.


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## slatham (Oct 24, 2019)

Final tower concrete tomorrow. Summit terminal concrete next week. Towers to be flown in week of Nov 4th. Progress! If towers are in by first/second week of Nov I'd say they have a great shot at MLK and an outside chance of Christmas break.


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## camberstick (Oct 24, 2019)

Already so much good momentum going on here, hats off to the crew  for all the hard work. So happy to see this place building  a solid future


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## slatham (Oct 25, 2019)

Emailed today:

This last week has seen a ton of progress on the Black Line Quad as well as our new Brook Pump installation. This week we finish up the last of the concrete footings for the lift towers, with top terminal getting poured next week. Logistically, it's been a very tough getting cement to some of these tower locations on the steeps of Magic, but with these final concrete placements, we will be ready to fly a helicopter to install the towers after next week. When the towers do fly, we will keep you posted, but the mountain must remain closed and clear of vehicle and pedestrian traffic while the helicopter is flying out of our parking lot on to the mountain for safety reasons. The only place we will allow people to gather to watch will be restricted to the Black Line Tavern and our deck. Access to the deck must come through the lower lodge entrance only. The airspace must be free of traffic as well, so there will be no drones allowed  over the Magic airspace and we thank our neighbors and friends for their cooperation when this operation takes place. We will update plans as we get closer with weather conditions playing a major role in final timing.

The new Brook pump house is also coming together with the building constructed and insulated this week. Pump drive install and electric hook up will be completed by November so we can add a new water supply into our pond in time for snowmaking season as we continue to "make better magic" for our skiers and riders.


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## slatham (Oct 30, 2019)

https://www.skimag.com/ski-resort-life/magic-mountain

#17 :-o


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 30, 2019)

slatham said:


> https://www.skimag.com/ski-resort-life/magic-mountain
> 
> #17 :-o



Stowe was #18 so I wouldn't feel too badly...


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## p_levert (Oct 30, 2019)

Props to Jamaicaman for some effective marketing.  And, yes, you beat out Stowe!


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 30, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> *Stowe was #18* so I wouldn't feel too badly...



Ski lists are always terrible, but this was the worst one I've ever seen. 

 I laughed-out-loud at my desk a few times.


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## slatham (Oct 30, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Stowe was #18 so I wouldn't feel too badly...



That emoji was the look of shock that Magic was listed at all. I mean I love the place, but its not your typical (or historical) type of area to show up on such lists. But like MRG, its vibe and terrain score enough to overcome the lack of resort "amenities". I didn't think the readers of Ski Mag had that much "throwback" in them.


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## x10003q (Oct 30, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Ski lists are always terrible, but this was the worst one I've ever seen.
> 
> I laughed-out-loud at my desk a few times.



Does this mean you are not going on a 7 day tour of Holiday Valley (10) and Seven Springs (16)? :lol:


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## WoodCore (Nov 2, 2019)

Pitch Black in daylight.......


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## ss20 (Nov 2, 2019)

x10003q said:


> Does this mean you are not going on a 7 day tour of Holiday Valley (10) and Seven Springs (16)? :lol:



Don't joke about that with BG...I think poorly-thought-out ski area rankings legitimately raise his blood pressure to unhealthy levels :lol:


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## slatham (Nov 4, 2019)

Helicopter arrived today. Flying towers tomorrow. Fingers crossed for good weather!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djspookman (Nov 5, 2019)

slatham said:


> Helicopter arrived today. Flying towers tomorrow. Fingers crossed for good weather!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Can't wait to see the action! Webcam is up! https://youtu.be/EegKk4cTj54  They're flying currently!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 5, 2019)

slatham said:


> Helicopter arrived today. Flying towers tomorrow. Fingers crossed for good weather!!



Great! Moving right along with it!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 5, 2019)

Must be working top-down. I see it near the peak, dropping one up there currently...


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## djspookman (Nov 5, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Must be working top-down. I see it near the peak, dropping one up there currently...


yup, makes sense to me. Working when visibility is good, before clouds roll in.

They were making 5 minute round trips before; impressive!


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## JoeB-Z (Nov 5, 2019)

Looks like they are done! It would be fun to see a time lapse video.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2019)

i dont know anything about how this is supposed to go, but that seems super efficient.


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## drjeff (Nov 5, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i dont know anything about how this is supposed to go, but that seems super efficient.



The majority of copter assisted lift construction work, from flying towers and cross arms to if they so chose to fly concrete to the tower forms (Magic didn't in the Black's construction) does go very efficiently, as those heavy lift copters AREN'T cheap to rent, and are in high demand. It's not uncommon to hear that a copter arriving to place towers has to be delayed due to the copter being needed for things like large scale storm recovery efforts or air water drops for wild fire fighting

The efficiency from the standpoint of the spectator, almost always is a direct result of meticulous planning by the installation crew ahead of time, plenty of skilled teams on the ground to receive and set the tower's once the copter has flown them to the waiting pad, and lastly, and certainly not the least, a copter pilot with some incredible skills and an amazing amount of depth perception as he/she nears the tower pad with the tower hanging and swaying from the cable below as they're either looking out the window of the copter or in some cases though a "see through" floor so that the tower can be safely delivered, in the proper orientation to the crew waiting with their bolts and torque wrenches to get the tower secured on the pad and allow the pilot to release the cable used to transport the tower, so that the pilot can quickly fly back down to the staging area and pick up the next lift.

It's certainly efficient, and that's all about the numerous hours of meticulous work and planning that had happened in the months leading up to the copter arriving on site


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 5, 2019)

yep. cheers to the engineers and project managers. human ingenuity never ceases to amaze me.

maybe its a stoner thing, but i cant drive over a bridge or thru a tunnel, or fly in an airplane, without marveling that we've figured this shit out.


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## MG Skier (Nov 5, 2019)

It was impressive to watch via Magic’s feed. Once the parts are next to the concrete form it goes together fast!! Nice work installers and planners! When is the crane coming for the bull wheel and drive terminal? Maybe I can make that one?


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## IceEidolon (Nov 24, 2019)

Per Facebook, guns are running!

One of Magic's replies indicates they're opening Green first, which makes good sense. There's electrical most of the way up, and pressure for Impulse and Viper low energy guns (compared to Ratniks at the top). That should help get the best efficiency out of the system.

I'll be curious to see what the exact route is now that Green is online. 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=479529576024088


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## slatham (Nov 24, 2019)

Yes one of the major justifications for Green was the ability to get open quicker. 

As far as route my guess is Wand to Show Off, then Lower Wand into Hocus Pocus, tubing, beginner area.

Real question is, Lower Magic Carpet next, or a run off the summit?


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 25, 2019)

Well, I don't think Magic will be able to complete the quad on time. They still have a lot to do. It should've been done and load testing by now.


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2019)

Slidebrook87 said:


> Well, I don't think Magic will be able to complete the quad on time. They still have a lot to do. It should've been done and load testing by now.



The stated intention that the Magic admins who frequent this forum have said now for months, is that the goal is to have the new black spinning and carrying folks up the hill in January.

I don't think that I can ever recall them, once the project actually started, that the plan was to have it spinning by the opening day Thanksgiving/1st weekend of December time frame


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2019)

slatham said:


> Yes one of the major justifications for Green was the ability to get open quicker.
> 
> As far as route my guess is Wand to Show Off, then Lower Wand into Hocus Pocus, tubing, beginner area.
> 
> Real question is, Lower Magic Carpet next, or a run off the summit?



I think some of that choice of where to head next may have a bit to do with how much (or little) heavy equipment they still need to get to/from the top terminal of the new Black quad to finish it off.  I think we all can agree that it would be much "easier" to help pull/drag/assist a wheeled crane or cement truck if still need for the top terminal through as little snow along their work route up and down from the top, than a tracked vehicle such as a bulldozer or excavator through some whales of manmade.


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## IceEidolon (Nov 25, 2019)

Fortunately there are several options now with working pipes, pressure, and in some cases power for fans, so even if they can't bury the work road the snowmakers can stay busy.


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## slatham (Nov 25, 2019)

drjeff said:


> I think some of that choice of where to head next may have a bit to do with how much (or little) heavy equipment they still need to get to/from the top terminal of the new Black quad to finish it off.  I think we all can agree that it would be much "easier" to help pull/drag/assist a wheeled crane or cement truck if still need for the top terminal through as little snow along their work route up and down from the top, than a tracked vehicle such as a bulldozer or excavator through some whales of manmade.



From what I heard, now that the last cement work was done they can bury the work road.

Regarding Black, the earliest date I ever heard was prior to Christmas, never for opening or December 1 etc. I think the target now is by MLK.


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## hughconway (Nov 25, 2019)

slatham said:


> From what I heard, now that the last cement work was done they can bury the work road.



In theory, don't they still need the work road to bring up the top bullwheel and a crane to mount it?

I'm still very impressed by what the folks over at Magic are making happen, but I'll stand by my assumption that the new quad won't be ready and inspected until next season.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 25, 2019)

I guess they'll have to use that red chair for most of the season. Does anyone know if a new motor was installed for black? The old motor when it was Snow Bowl sounded pretty cool.


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2019)

hughconway said:


> In theory, don't they still need the work road to bring up the top bullwheel and a crane to mount it?
> 
> .



Maybe, maybe not. I have seen in the past when areas have to do bearing work on a bullwheel that they are able to use an excavator to lift the bullwheel on/off it's mounts and then a sled behind a snowcat to transport it up/down the mountain for service.  And as we all know, the crew at Magic most certainly has demonstrated that they're pretty good at figuring out the logistical challenges that they encounter in their tireless (and much appreciated!) efforts to improve the infrastructure and experience at Magic!


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## MG Skier (Nov 27, 2019)

I’d say they are working their plan on the new to them quad the best they can. When you have to wait for a sub contractor to finish concrete there isn’t a whole lot you can do. Let’s remember that the green chair came on line after the start of the season. I can remember people working on it at the start of the season when I stopped at Sunshine Corner. I’m sure Magic has a plan for just about every situation! They want that chair on line just as much as we do or more! Hoping to get out there soon!!! Looking forward for a ski, a cold upper pass beer and a Ruben and some great conversations!!:beer:


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## Do Work (Nov 30, 2019)

Thanks for all the kind words everybody, we are chugging right along despite many setbacks due to the lift builders basically destroying all the snowmaking pipe they came in contact with during the build.  Doesn't take much when you've got an #85k dozer pulling a #40k concrete sled around, and I've been upside down in the mud and welding for weeks to get it all back together. 

She's working like a charm now though, and we are currently wide open from the top of Medium down to the Red Chair and the snow is piling up fast with these temps.  Crews are working around the clock to maximize output and keep the progression rolling and we are very optimistic for our projected opening.

Everybody is really excited to start bumping chairs.  It feels like several lifetimes of work since last season and I cannot wait to get into the swing of things, see all my favorite people again and kick off this season right!  

Now if we can just burn enough skis and do enough snow dancing/sacrificial drinking to swing this next storm a bit to the north we'll be all set!


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## Do Work (Nov 30, 2019)

MG Skier said:


> I’d say they are working their plan on the new to them quad the best they can. When you have to wait for a sub contractor to finish concrete there isn’t a whole lot you can do.




This is more correct than I ever want to fully articulate.  If stress and contingency deployment was money I could buy Bezos and get back Gates as change.


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## MG Skier (Nov 30, 2019)

Do Work said:


> This is more correct than I ever want to fully articulate.  If stress and contingency deployment was money I could buy Bezos and get back Gates as change.



Do Work, I was up for a hike yesterday....yes, you have been busy! There isn't much you can do with all that heavy stuff going over the lines! Glad to see the picture this morning....any help from mother nature is appreciated!


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## JoeB-Z (Nov 30, 2019)

Sure looks like a rippin' storm  and temps for next week leading up to the opening.


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## slatham (Nov 30, 2019)

It was great to see snowmaking plumes on Magic today from across the valley. Stopped by for my pass and checked out the progress and a lot of snow was put down in only 24 hours. Should be great opportunities for more snowmaking this week and of course a nice storm of - well lets be conservative and just say double digits....

Great job by Do Work and team to get things running. Time soon for Do Work to Go Ski!


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 2, 2019)

so, does magic open earlier than saturday given the storm? and do they open red? i hope the answers are no, and yes, so there is freshies waiting for a red chair debut on opening day. i'm in.


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## slatham (Dec 2, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> so, does magic open earlier than saturday given the storm? and do they open red? i hope the answers are no, and yes, so there is freshies waiting for a red chair debut on opening day. i'm in.



My bet is your wish will be granted......


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## tnt1234 (Dec 2, 2019)

How much did they get?


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 2, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> so, does magic open earlier than saturday given the storm? and do they open red? i hope the answers are no, and yes, so there is freshies waiting for a red chair debut on opening day. i'm in.



Looks like your wish is granted per today's snow report:

12/2 7am: Looks like we’ve picked up around 8-10″ since yesterday and it is lightly snowing. Another few inches is expected throughout the day today. This will certainly help as we prepare for opening weekend! Currently our plan is to open the ski area on Saturday Dec 7th for weekend-only until Dec 19th when we start our normal Thurs-Sunday schedule, plus holiday week of 12/26-1/5. We will not be open 12/24-25.
We had been making snow on Medium, Wand and Show Off since Friday to open skiing off the Green Lift. After this storm is done on Tuesday, we will make an assessment as to opening more terrain for the weekend. Remember, there is very little base on the mountain (especially on lower half) prior to this storm so depth and density of new snow will determine trail accessibility and any changes to opening day.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 3, 2019)

Yep they just posted Saturday opening with red open. Bummed they only netted 13” while Stratton got 20+ but I can live with an ungroomed magic day Saturday and then Stratton woods Sunday. Stoked


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 4, 2019)

woooo yesterday magic posted that 17 trails will be open. thats up to 25 now including talisman, sorcerer, and goniff, almost all of the blues, the blue graded glades, and twilight zone. gonna be some fun skiing on saturday and won't even need to duck many ropes! stoked!


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 4, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> woooo yesterday magic posted that 17 trails will be open. thats up to 25 now including talisman, sorcerer, and goniff, almost all of the blues, the blue graded glades, and twilight zone. gonna be some fun skiing on saturday and won't even need to duck many ropes! stoked!



Try not to mess up Master Magician for everyone else this season.. since you're posting this blatantly in the Magic thread I wonder how they feel about this? By all means ski the woods but nobody likes a poacher who skis a trail off early.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 4, 2019)

magician is the most unpoachable line in vermont maybe. its all jagged teeth. 

i'm mainly referring to woods, not trails. specifically the hallows and the wardrobe. closed but accessible from sorcerer and talisman. will evaluate the coverage and take it from there.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 4, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> magician is the most unpoachable line in vermont maybe. its all jagged teeth.
> 
> i'm mainly referring to woods, not trails. specifically the hallows and the wardrobe. closed but accessible from sorcerer and talisman. will evaluate the coverage and take it from there.



I would ski Hallows and Wardrobe any day as well. IMO tree skiing doesn't count as a poach it's fair game if you can access it. I was just ribbing you for announcing your poaching. Enjoy it up there.

 I might go Saturday as well but I was really hoping they'd be open Friday, I assume Saturday will be lift lines. But my other option is Thursday Wachusett (on a Warren Miller ticket, and I have never been to Wachusett and never wanted to), so we'll see.


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## slatham (Dec 4, 2019)

Wow great to hear they can get all those trails open. Sounds like a repeat of last years "soft opening". Lots of snow, terrain and fun. Just need to be alert, and on rock skis. Sorry I'm gonna miss it!


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 4, 2019)

gotta be better for lift lines than stratton or mount snow will be. i intend to be there for first chair and hit it hard and early. got a cheapo room in manchester sat night. then stratton sunday. buddy skied stratton yesterday and his pics of the woods look tasty.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 4, 2019)

slatham said:


> Wow great to hear they can get all those trails open. Sounds like a repeat of last years "soft opening". Lots of fun, need to be alert, and need to be on rock skis. Sorry I'm gonna miss it!



i was 2nd chair for that anything goes opening last year. i'm on their promo video. love magic. so much. 

my rock skis are my DPS after my moments died last year. i'm gonna shred them. oh well.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 5, 2019)

weather.com saying 1-3" tomorrow at magic, the gfs concurs.


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## Smellytele (Dec 5, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Try not to mess up Master Magician for everyone else this season.. since you're posting this blatantly in the Magic thread I wonder how they feel about this? By all means ski the woods but nobody likes a poacher who skis a trail off early.



There will be more snow. Poach and poach again. Early bird gets the worm. I blame no one but myself if someone skied off a trail before me.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 6, 2019)

trail count bumped from 17 to 25 to 32. slide of hans officially open. 2-4" today.


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## crazy (Dec 6, 2019)

Is poaching OK (as in everybody does it, no repercussions) at Magic? It sounds like the answer is yes, which is good to know. My friends and I are excited to check out Magic for the first time tomorrow.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 6, 2019)

the only thing i'd strongly advise against poaching is upper magician. it's jagged and when it's closed it's really closed. i also think it would just be too ballsy and disrespectful to poach red line under the lift, or black line where they are constructing the new lift. "closed" woods are game on in my opinion. 

i'd also avoid poaching green line. for one, the lift will be spinning. but mainly, its steep and rocky and you'll mess up your skis. i'd be wary of the woods on either side of green line as well for the same reasons. 

dark blue pants, light blue jacket, black helmet with ski the east and WORTH stickers, brown DPS skis. holla


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 6, 2019)

Probably going to head up Sunday unless Berkshire East shows some expansion available tomorrow. 32 trails at Magic sounds like a winning proposition.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 6, 2019)

decent snows showing on stratton and magic webcams.


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## MMP (Dec 6, 2019)

Ski patrol isn’t putting up with our bullshit anymore. Duck ropes at your own peril. 


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 6, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> the only thing i'd strongly advise against poaching is upper magician. it's jagged and when it's closed it's really closed. i also think it would just be too ballsy and disrespectful to poach red line under the lift, or black line where they are constructing the new lift. "closed" woods are game on in my opinion.
> 
> i'd also avoid poaching green line. for one, the lift will be spinning. but mainly, its steep and rocky and you'll mess up your skis. i'd be wary of the woods on either side of green line as well for the same reasons.
> 
> dark blue pants, light blue jacket, black helmet with ski the east and WORTH stickers, brown DPS skis. holla



I don't mind if you poach Master Magician on the right (eastward side) It is an excellent challenge.


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## Harvey (Dec 6, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> decent snows showing on stratton and magic webcams.



Can someone post a link to the Magic Cam?


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## cdskier (Dec 6, 2019)

Harvey said:


> Can someone post a link to the Magic Cam?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9OogWf4Fw&feature=youtu.be


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## Harvey (Dec 6, 2019)

Thank you!


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 7, 2019)

crazy said:


> Is poaching OK (as in everybody does it, no repercussions) at Magic? It sounds like the answer is yes, which is good to know. My friends and I are excited to check out Magic for the first time tomorrow.



NO. There may be some confusion as in the past, under prior ownership, Magic did not open terrain quickly and poaching was common due to necessity. However, they also had fewer people, and significantly less heavy equipment in use. 

New management likes skiing. Their policy on glass skiing is super relaxed such that things that may considered poaching elsewhere are not. So long as you enter and exit the woods on open trails and ski in groups of 3 or larger. They also open terrain quickly. As a result, There is no need to poach anymore. 

If you have your heart set on untracked powder there are plenty of ways both inbounds and nearby to get it, while still following the rules. 


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 7, 2019)

Krusty & myself had quite the day.  Good meeting you mang.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 7, 2019)

Magicsnowboard said:


> ski in groups of 3 or larger



alrighty then... hope to be up there tomorrow if this cold doesn't get worse. How were the lift lines + parking today?


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## urungus (Dec 7, 2019)

Hoping to be there tomorrow.  How do Goniff Glade and Twilight Zone compare to each other in terms of steepness, spacing of trees, mandatory air, etc ?


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## The Sneak (Dec 7, 2019)

You can handle both. Neither are super xxxtreme, frankly parts of Green Line and Black Line are way more challenging. No mandatory air on either that I can recall!


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 7, 2019)

RustyGroomer said:


> Krusty & myself had quite the day.  Good meeting you mang.
> View attachment 25737



sick! thanks for the shot. awesome meeting you and your magic crew. will definitely do it again.

great skiing today. my legs are tired. tacos


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## slatham (Dec 7, 2019)

urungus said:


> Hoping to be there tomorrow.  How do Goniff Glade and Twilight Zone compare to each other in terms of steepness, spacing of trees, mandatory air, etc ?



Goniff steeper for sure, straight down the line. Twilight not as steep, but double fall line and interesting decisions to make around trees and dropping into the true fall line for a few turns. 

Trees, but these are trails with trees, not glades.

Exit of both the same as they merge, and can get tricky with low base and ice.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 7, 2019)

urungus said:


> Hoping to be there tomorrow.  How do Goniff Glade and Twilight Zone compare to each other in terms of steepness, spacing of trees, mandatory air, etc ?



They're similar enough I've mixed them up a few times. Both loose glades and pretty steep but not extreme. Goniff might have a couple steeper turns in the middle section.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 7, 2019)

it’s wild that magic was easily the best and also probably the cheapest skiing in soVT today, and there was never a line or a crowd of any kind. maybe bc the berks and catskills also got lit up this week


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 7, 2019)

Twilight Zone is an absolutely wonderful, classic, non-dynamited by some idiot 30 years ago, trail.


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## gregnye (Dec 7, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> it’s wild that magic was easily the best and also probably the cheapest skiing in soVT today, and there was never a line or a crowd of any kind. maybe bc the berks and catskills also got lit up this week



Agreed! Today was incredible! I think I had my best run ever down Twilight. And the waterbars on the west side added to the excitement--allowed for lots of jumping!

 Thanks you staff at Magic for an awesome opening day!


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 8, 2019)

Got up ready to get in the car at 6:00am, hoping this chest cold would have improved. Not so much. Don't want bronchitis right now. Hope y'all enjoy!


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## JamaicaMan (Dec 8, 2019)

Good way to end the weekend



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## Harvey (Dec 8, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Twilight Zone is an absolutely wonderful, classic, non-dynamited by some idiot 30 years ago, trail.



+1


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## Harvey (Dec 8, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> it’s wild that magic was easily the best and also probably the cheapest skiing in soVT today, and there was never a line or a crowd of any kind. maybe bc the berks and catskills also got lit up this week



If the masses thought things through, they wouldn't be the masses.


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## tnt1234 (Dec 8, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> it’s wild that magic was easily the best and also probably the cheapest skiing in soVT today, and there was never a line or a crowd of any kind. maybe bc the berks and catskills also got lit up this week



We skied on to every lift at Plattekill Saturday.  Sauntered out to the  line about 5 minutes before opening bell and were about 20th in line.  

Crazy.  Couldn't have been better.


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## JimG. (Dec 8, 2019)

Belleayre ski on all day too. Guess everyone was at Hunter or Windham.


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## urungus (Dec 8, 2019)

Great conditions at Magic today and never had to wait at the chairlift ... where was everybody ?  Went down Twilight Zone for the first time ever, much easier than I had expected and wonderful soft snow.  Goniff looked a little rocky though.


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## urungus (Dec 8, 2019)

Great conditions at Magic today and never had to wait at the chairlift ... where was everybody ?  Went down Twilight Zone for the first time ever, much easier than I had expected and wonderful soft snow.  Goniff looked a little rocky though.


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 9, 2019)

Good stuff urungus.  Glad you enjoyed.  TZ was the run of the weekend.  Here's one from Black.  Both old & new liftlines in the background.


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## PaulR (Dec 9, 2019)

Was at Magic for the first time yesterday, brought the family.  Great place, definitely coming back.  Love it that there was zero lift line all day on a weekend.  Having a lot of the trails ungroomed was a great experience for the little ones.  Do they often let the mountain go "au naturale" like this?


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 9, 2019)

they mostly let the mountain go au naturale like that. easily the best in soVT


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## MMP (Dec 9, 2019)

Just like out west. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 9, 2019)

i'm not zillowing property in londonderry vermont or anything as i eat my lunch today...


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## PaulR (Dec 9, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i'm not zillowing property in londonderry vermont or anything as i eat my lunch today...




Like that nice Condo on the access road for only 250k?


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 9, 2019)

as soon as these pesky student loans are behind me, i'm gonna make some serious inquiries. that's anywhere from 2-5 years out depending on some personal circumstances.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 9, 2019)

PaulR said:


> Having a lot of the trails ungroomed was a great experience for the little ones.  Do they often let the mountain go "au naturale" like this?




Yup.   Easily the best terrain in southern Vermont.   Kind of bummed I couldn't get up there for opening weekend


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## tnt1234 (Dec 9, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i'm not zillowing property in londonderry vermont or anything as i eat my lunch today...



That;'s me every time we overnight in Manchester....


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 9, 2019)

The problem with buying a place near Magic is their lack of snowmaking.  You're basically playing Russian roulette on the snow, which isnt something I'd want to do with may ski real estate.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 9, 2019)

During dry spells, you can ski a multitude of places around Magic that have great snowmaking.

Wildcat is often not a place you want to be when it hasn't snowed recently.  One of the smallest snowmaking operations for a mountain its size in the East.  I just hit Attitash for the weekend if mother nature is unkind.   



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## BenedictGomez (Dec 9, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> During dry spells, you can ski a multitude of places around Magic that have great snowmaking.



 I suppose that's true if we're assuming it's only a short-term blip as opposed to a terrible snow year, as Magic's really the only s.VT place I'd want to ski at.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

I like the idea of owning a place in soVT where it’s only a 4 hour drive home. The other area we really like is lake bomoseen - 4 hours from home, 35 to killington, 70 to sugarbush, year round value, and higher value in the summer as a lake house when we would use it less and Airbnb it more. But lately I’ve been more drawn to Londonderry. As DHS said, easy enough to ski at Bromley or Stratton when the snow is not magical. I also have no qualms about basing in soVT and driving to wherever up north to ski. I do that now every weekend basically but start at 3 AM in NYC. I’m happy to drive up to my own place on a Friday afternoon. Leave at like 5-6 AM for Stowe/jay/smuggs whatever, drive back south to sleep and ski soVT on a Sunday. I know I have a higher tolerance for drive time than most, and I also know that that may change as I get older. We’ll see. What I do know is that I’m less keen on buying a place in the MRV/Waterbury than I used to br


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## NYDB (Dec 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> The problem with buying a place near Magic is their lack of snowmaking.  You're basically playing Russian roulette on the snow, which isnt something I'd want to do with may ski real estate.



With the new management in place, from what I have seen the past couple of years, even in a bad snow year they would likely have 3 ways down the top of the eastside (trick, medium, magic carpet 'through the woods') and then wand to showoff, carumba to redline and hocus pocus and the lower half.  Maybe even lower magic carpet.  I think they'd be able to put in tali on the westside too.  

Not terribly exciting but more than adequate.  And this is before the newest snowmaking improvements.  

Compare to the Okemo, Stratton, Mt Snow bad snow year 60 trails, with each trail being the same as the other trails and skiied of by 10am.  I'll take Magic for a few turns.  With the corduroy lasting usually until the afternoon.

The only thing I've seen that they can't do is quickly resurface the entire place after a rain/ refreeze.  They are probably working on that with the new water capacity.    

And as a plus, Magic is still trying to shake their 'only go on a powder day' rep so when its groomer only terrain it's usually a ghost town.


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## tnt1234 (Dec 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> The problem with buying a place near Magic is their lack of snowmaking.  You're basically playing Russian roulette on the snow, which isnt something I'd want to do with may ski real estate.



And their elevation is pretty low if I remember correctly....

But on the other hand, you have Okemo nearby, and K-ton is just an hour up the road...


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## tnt1234 (Dec 10, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I like the idea of owning a place in soVT where it’s only a 4 hour drive home. The other area we really like is lake bono seen - 4 hours from home, 35 to killington, 70 to sugarbush, year round value, and higher value in the summer as a lake house when we would use it less and Airbnb it more. But lately I’ve been more drawn to Londonderry. As DHS said, easy enough to ski at Bromley or Stratton when the snow is not magical. I also have no qualms about basing in soVT and driving to wherever up north to ski. I do that now every weekend basically but start at 3 AM in NYC. I’m happy to drive up to my own place on a Friday afternoon. Leave at like 5-6 AM for Stowe/jay/smuggs whatever, drive back south to sleep and ski soVT on a Sunday. I know I have a higher tolerance for drive time than most, and I also know that that may change as I get older. We’ll see. What I do know is that I’m less keen on buying a place in the MRV/Waterbury than I used to br



MRV would be my ideal, but the longer drive might make us use it less.  Why have you soured on that area?

Don't know why I play this game with myself - not in a position to buy anything, and times running out....


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## ss20 (Dec 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> The problem with buying a place near Magic is their lack of snowmaking.  You're basically playing Russian roulette on the snow, which isnt something I'd want to do with may ski real estate.



Exactly.  Also I'm sure the home value would be less than someplace that's near a mega-resort.

I dream of having a house on Route 100 between Killington and Okemo.  That's 1,000+ acres of terrain, a blend of snowmaking/non-snowmaking, and still within 3 hours of driving from CT.  When the gettin' is good Magic would be 45 minutes to the south and Sugarbush an hour north.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> MRV would be my ideal, but the longer drive might make us use it less.  Why have you soured on that area?
> 
> Don't know why I play this game with myself - not in a position to buy anything, and times running out....



Not soured. It’s just too far and too expensive. I’d like to be ~4 hours from home. That seems to be the magic area, or lake bomoseen near castleton


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Exactly.  Also I'm sure the home value would be less than someplace that's near a mega-resort.
> 
> I dream of having a house on Route 100 between Killington and Okemo.  That's 1,000+ acres of terrain, a blend of snowmaking/non-snowmaking, and still within 3 hours of driving from CT.  When the gettin' is good Magic would be 45 minutes to the south and Sugarbush an hour north.



Also less expensive to buy tho. I’ve seen many listings over the past few days near magic that suits my needs under $200k

And I’m cautiously optimistic about the future of magic and the viability of an investment. I also think I can mitigate that risk by finding something in town of Londonderry and not necessarily at the base or on the access road of magic. I found a house near the corner of 100 and 11 that I’d buy in a heartbeat if my financial situation was right. 7 min to magic, on 100 so literally down the road from okemo and k, walkable to the main strip of Londonderry and the limited stores restaurants and services over there


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## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2019)

What are the seasonal rentals like in the area?   I'm pretty confident that I'll be doing that up in the MT Washington Valley next year.   Options are kinda limited in the AirBnB days we live in now, but there are properties available that I could literally rent every season for 30 years and still probably end up spending half what I would trying to buy.  I wouldn't have the asset in the end, but I also wouldn't have the ownership headaches. 

Vermont is a particularly crummy place to buy second homes if you need to sell within the first seven years.  

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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

Good question re:seasonal rental prices - I don’t know the answer.

But the appeal for me is owning, and having something I can rent out and earn income from. I don’t view a seasonal rental as much of an improvement over my current motels/airbnbs every weekend. If I’m going to limit myself to a location, I want it to be mine


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## RustyGroomer (Dec 10, 2019)

Sales pitch image...


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## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Good question re:seasonal rental prices - I don’t know the answer.
> 
> But the appeal for me is owning, and having something I can rent out and earn income from. I don’t view a seasonal rental as much of an improvement over my current motels/airbnbs every weekend. If I’m going to limit myself to a location, I want it to be mine


If you are using the property all winter and only planning on renting it in the summer, I'm betting your income during summer might cover a portion of your off season mortgage payments, but probably not all of it.  Southern VT is an absolute ghost town in the summer.  My folks travel up from Florida every summer and rent places in Ludlow for really short money. 

 You'd do better on Bomoseen for rental income in summer, but your acquisition cost for lakefront would be probably triple that of getting a place in Londonderry, nevermind the taxes.

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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

ugh, i'm working from home today and just turned on the youtube app on my smartTV. the magic live stream was one of the thumbnail options. ouch. decimated yesterday. back to square one. sisyphus. it doesn't deter me from real estate interest tho. its southern vermont in early december. comes with the territory.


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## Magicsnowboard (Dec 10, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> What are the seasonal rentals like in the area?   I'm pretty confident that I'll be doing that up in the MT Washington Valley next year.   Options are kinda limited in the AirBnB days we live in now, but there are properties available that I could literally rent every season for 30 years and still probably end up spending half what I would trying to buy.  I wouldn't have the asset in the end, but I also wouldn't have the ownership headaches.
> 
> Vermont is a particularly crummy place to buy second homes if you need to sell within the first seven years.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Rented for the past 10 years, 8 at Magic. The majority of time was in a 4 bedroom house walking distance for ~8-9k plus utilities. It worked great, all winter rental, Nov 15-Apr 15.  Has been a great deal as I have split it with my friends, and more recently my in laws.  I move in, leave my stuff all winter, and I can go sailing all summer without a moment of worry about how the property in VT is doing. 

I tried to justify buying, but I could never make the numbers work. At $250k with a 80% i/o mortgage @4%, I would have interest at $8k, a $50k down payment and opportunity cost associated with missed returns say 6% or $3k, plus property taxes of $3k, insurance of $1k, pretty quickly I am at $14k, not counting maintenance. I could bring the numbers back in line if I rented it out, but I doubt I could earn $5k in rental rates unless I rented it out during peak ski times, which is exactly when I want to use it, defeating the purpose. Renting would also increase insurance, maintenance,etc.

With that said, I plan to throw all logic out the window, buy a place and make it awesome.  I love the area and having so many ski and recreational options.  But when I do buy a place I will freely admit that I am spending and not investing when I do.  In the interim it’s onto seasonal rental year 11, without regrets. 




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## RustyGroomer (Dec 10, 2019)

Kusty this is our Magic intelligent guy.  Listen to him.  I just post pics.  MSB, Kusty is now on the roster.


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## PaulR (Dec 10, 2019)

You guys stop.  please.  I have to work today.  
I looked at all the houses for sale on realtor.com yesterday.
New to looking at this area but jumping in with both feet.  I agree with above who said they are cautiously optimistic about an investment in the area.  New ownership, a plan, and a new quad going in is very telling of what they want to do here.
Either fix it up nice and finally make money, or at least fix it up and make it attractive to sell to one of the bigger players in the area.
Looking at two other mountains in the immediate area, this is a great place to invest.
Tell me:  The Gray condo's on the upper hill by the black lift look relatively new, but I see none for sale?
The "original" condo's below the red lift:  some look occupied?  But one lot was not plowed, looked like they were almost letting them go to demolish?  Is there a plan there?  

Investment wise: I think it will always be a lose-lose, you kind of have to accept that.  just how much is the question.  As above, you/family will want it at peak times.  Best you can hope for is some rentals in order to offset the taxes and insurance.

PaulR


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## Do Work (Dec 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> The problem with buying a place near Magic is their lack of snowmaking.  You're basically playing Russian roulette on the snow, which isnt something I'd want to do with may ski real estate.




While this is true right now, every year we add capacity.  By year 10 you won't be able to say that anymore, so invest now while the market is low due to the uncertainty you identified if that's what you want to do.  Lots of deals off the beaten path.  


Also, the closer you get to those "predictable" places, the more you'll spend-and have to deal with, obviously.  Ludlow/Rte 100 lakes region is a bit tourist trappy, and can be far more expensive unless you're going ghetto and has a lot of scumbags in town which everyone seems to think they want for proximity to stuff- and it's busy.  Too busy for me.  I don't see the attraction personally.  I always laud the availability of small, modest homes tucked away from the main routes and town amenities.  Honestly there isn't much to walk to anyways, so trying to get someplace close to the market or Grill is of very limited usefulness.  Heck, there's even places you can pick up that are on the VAST network that will get you really close- or even on the Timber Ridge side so you get that connectivity without all the people.  There are a million ways.  You'll definitely need a good real estate agent though to nail the right property, and if anybody wants my go-to housing wizard shoot me a PM- she's AWESOME.  

The housing market up here is insanely cheap compared to where we moved from (upscale WMass town).  If you aren't trying to buy some wildly huge house with a crazy view it's pretty easy to find a cheap secluded cabin away from everything.  We live at the end of a dead end road and love the quiet- we had some terrible neighbors in MA and prioritized avoiding the BS of seeing anyone ever.


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## Do Work (Dec 10, 2019)

PaulR said:


> You guys stop.  please.  I have to work today.
> I looked at all the houses for sale on realtor.com yesterday.
> New to looking at this area but jumping in with both feet.  I agree with above who said they are cautiously optimistic about an investment in the area.  New ownership, a plan, and a new quad going in is very telling of what they want to do here.
> Either fix it up nice and finally make money, or at least fix it up and make it attractive to sell to one of the bigger players in the area.
> ...




Those are called "Trailside".  They sell fast and are going up in value quickly.  I know of one (one of the only "standalone" units that doesn't share a hallway or ceiling/floor with neighbors) it is FSBO and I think they area asking somewhere in the $115k area if my memory serves me correctly.


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## sledride (Dec 10, 2019)

Great posts.  From everything I've read on the subject a seasonal rental makes the most sense financially but emotionally having a place to call your own is really attractive.


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2019)

There is also a difference (both in mindset and reality) between a 2nd home and a rental property/2nd home.

When the rental property aspect is thrown into the mix, sure there are/can be financial benefit towards doing that, it also means that you have to plan far ahead as to when you want to try and rent it out, and realize that often the "prime time" for the rentals popularity may be the times you want to ski yourself, and if it's already rented out, and that great powder day happens, your place may not be available if someone has rented it already from you.  If you plan on skiing other places while your property is rented, then you loose the convenience of leaving your gear in your 2nd home and have to plan ahead and bring it with you to your primary home and then to where you're going for while your place is rented.  Also means that you can't always keep your cabinets and refrigerator as stocked ahead of time as you can if you don't rent it out (especially if you're going to be open to short term, "last minute" rentals via airBNB/VRBO/etc.

If one just looks at their investment as a 2nd home, then much of the planning and prepping ahead of time for what needs to be done to keep it "rental ready" is gone, and you really start to add your own personal touches that you're not worried about if a renter damages/breaks, as well as having the freedom to just randomly hop in your car and show up at your place a few hours later any time you want (especially if its a powder day).  

Whichever way works for you is great. Just don't be surprised if one starts with a rental property mindset and then over time you choose to not rent it anymore. Especially if kids, and all of their associated gear (and often seasonal programs) are brought into or are already a part of your family situation

The other thing that I will totally add as a 2nd home owner in Southern VT for almost 14 years now, is that you often buy your property with mainly Winter use as you're primary focus. However, if you've never spent time in the "non snow months" in Southern VT, regardless of what your "usual" non snow month activities are, don't be surprised at all to find yourself using, and wanting to use, your property a fair amount when it's not ski season. It is really a great area all year round


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

yea. we aren't kids people and don't intend to be parents ever, so we don't have to concern ourselves with any of the kid stuff, which allows us to be more 'rental ready' i think. 

i used to airbnb my apartment on the lower east side of manhattan. that was my real primary home. i had two closets and kept one locked with my clothes and valuables. i kept separate bedding. back then i cleaned up after them myself, but now i would pay a service. could easily keep a locked kitchen cabinet for provisions that we don't went renters using. i think we'd be able to make it work with minimal inconvenience to our personal preferences, which are pretty minimalist anyway

i'm fine with carting my gear around. two pairs of skis live in my car all winter and the back seats are half down all the time. 

and if i had a place at magic we would surely rent it x-mas, mlk, and president's week. these are all times i get some freebie days off at work and i always ski out west those weeks and will continue to, so i'm happy to make some rental money those periods.

msb, dowork, rg - what's the story with property management/cleaning services to rental ready it when you aren't able to? approx costs?


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 10, 2019)

sledride said:


> *seasonal rental makes the most sense financially but emotionally having a place to call your own is really attractive.*



True on both counts.  

As a finance person, it would be difficult for me psychologically to "buy", precisely for the former.  Especially when in such an area if you do find a great seasonal rental, it behooves both parties to enter into a "long-term", annual agreement.  So you can likely have the same place year-after-year anyway.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

here's the house i found yesterday that i'm kind of obsessed with. just can't do it now. i love the location, the small lot with nice stonework and little yard, the floors, the kitchen pass thru, the kitchen nook with the beams. love it. doesn't seem to need much work. maybe some new kitchen appliances. no pics of bathroom situation. 

https://www.tpwrealestate.com/listing/4784526/5892-100-route-londonderry-vt-05148/


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## slatham (Dec 10, 2019)

My 2 cents from someone living on Long Island who bought a condo at Bromley 6 years ago.

Buy vs. rent - we spend a decent amount of time in SoVT in summer and fall which made the economics of buying vs. renting more attractive, and are grateful we had the option to buy. We did 2 seasonal rentals and if we only visited SoVT to ski we would not have bought a place. Its great to have a place that is yours, year round.

Bromley? As we are primarily weekend/holiday skiers we wanted to avoid the crowds at the bigger resorts. Bromley and Magic fit the bill. 6 years ago Magic was too risky an option to buy, and you get much more space for the money at Bromley vs. larger resorts. Magic and Bromley very much compliment one another - I'm a passholder at both.

Location - no way we were going further than a 4 hour good weather/good traffic drive. In ideal conditions its a 3:45 drive time, so even with issues its rarely longer than 4:30. SoVT was the obvious choice. The golden triangle more so with the three areas, plus Mt Snow, Okemo and Killington all within 1 hour, and family at Sugarbush less than 2. 

Pleasant surprise - swimming holes, ponds and lakes.

Disappointments - can never get up as much as I want, but this would be the case no matter how much I visit and will only change when I move permanently.

Simply love it up there.


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## PaulR (Dec 10, 2019)

Krusty:  I'm clicking that next!
Slatham:  Good info.  Golden triangle, that's the term I was looking for!  I just looked at a few condos for sale at Bromley.  I love it, could do it, want to do it......but same result as when I looked at Mt snow.  The $400 per month condo fees are the killer.  I could "afford" it, but I really don't want to afford it because it's simply pissing away money as far as I'm concerned.  It's like you own it, but you never really ever stop paying for it.
Again, from the accountants perspective:  go in knowing its a losing investment and you'll be fine.  lol.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

Depends what you get for the HOA fees and if it completely cancels out the maintenance costs and aggravation of owning


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## PaulR (Dec 10, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> here's the house i found yesterday that i'm kind of obsessed with. just can't do it now. i love the location, the small lot with nice stonework and little yard, the floors, the kitchen pass thru, the kitchen nook with the beams. love it. doesn't seem to need much work. maybe some new kitchen appliances. no pics of bathroom situation.
> 
> https://www.tpwrealestate.com/listing/4784526/5892-100-route-londonderry-vt-05148/



Yep, saw that.
1910 stone foundation, full crawl space basement...can you say "critters?"  lol
can be fixed though if your industrious.
Electric heat too, I'd convert to propane, or add propane somehow, fireplace etc.

If I buy it, I'll invite you over for sure.
I was in Brooklyn for the first time recently, saw Trampled by Turtles at the Brooklyn Bowl.
Nice city you've got there....you people drive like absolute animals. :grin:


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

I used to live near bk bowl, and it was home base for my friends from ~2009-2011 when we are all post college and fun. we live in Brooklyn Heights now. It’s more adulty.


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Depends what you get for the HOA fees and if it completely cancels out the maintenance costs and aggravation of owning



Yup. When you have a solid HOA, you really don't think too much about the fees as you know that you don't have to worry about plowing, lawn cutting, exterior maintenance that often benefits the value of your property, exterior painting, roof replacement, failing window replacement, someone available to monitor and handle any emergencies when you're not around, etc, etc, etc.  I also get with my HOA fees (and granted there's just over 210 units paying into the HOA where I own) firewood, a onsite fitness/community center with an indoor pool, gym, racquet/pickle ball courts, outdoor clay tennis courts in the non ski season, on site maintained cross country/snowshoe/hiking trails, weekend and holiday weeks/weekends shuttle service every 15 minutes to/from the mountain from Thanksgiving until the last weekend in March, trash and recycling service, etc, etc, etc.  It really does take many of the stresses of owning a 2nd home away.

Granted sometimes within the HOA, there will be special assessments for larger capital maintenance projects that are above and beyond your regular HOA fees (there have been 2 in the almost 14 years my wife and I have owned. One that amounted to around 4k (payable in various 1 time to 3 year options) to redo our community center/gym/indoor pool facilities, and one that we're currently in the middle of paying back now that was into the low 5 figures (exact amount varied based on how many bedrooms your unit was perked for initial construction deed about 30 years ago {that's also how my associations HOA fees are determined - do you own a perked 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom, 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom unit} to replace all of the old wooden siding on all of the buildings many of which was original siding that had been scraped and painted so many times over the last 30 years that it wasn't holding paint anymore, with a cement fiberboard material which when all is said and done for the entire 36 buildings in my complex is about a 2 construction season 5.3 million dollar project) which now that 99.8% of the entire complex is done, we're seeing an uptick in the sales market for our complex above and beyond what other similar complexes in the area are currently seeing).

Again, there are certainly pro's and con's to HOA's and their fees and the "value" you feel like you get from them. If you like your HOA and the complex your in, then you tend not to mind your HOA fees. If you don't have a solid HOA, then you tend to question the value you get from them....


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## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> here's the house i found yesterday that i'm kind of obsessed with. just can't do it now. i love the location, the small lot with nice stonework and little yard, the floors, the kitchen pass thru, the kitchen nook with the beams. love it. doesn't seem to need much work. maybe some new kitchen appliances. no pics of bathroom situation.
> 
> https://www.tpwrealestate.com/listing/4784526/5892-100-route-londonderry-vt-05148/


How much do you think you'd realistically pull in for rental income though in Londonderry?

I only throw caution as you need to be prepared for that house to sit vacant pretty much all summer no matter how cheap you have it listed on AirBnB.

The place my folks rent in Ludlow is a much larger 3bd, 2ba home than this listed .   The owners paid $299,000 for it and practically beg them to come back every summer offering at $1500 for two weeks.  They might get in rented a total of 4-5 weeks beyond that during the off season.   So, basically from Mid March to Mid December they are able to find renters for 6-7 weeks total.   Ludlow has a lot more going on during summer than Londonderry and the occupancy rate of rentals is only like 25%.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 10, 2019)

yep, point taken. This is all so wildly hypothetical right now anyway.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 10, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> How much do you think you'd realistically pull in for rental income though in Londonderry?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app




Probably not much in the summer but if you do a winter seasonal rental you could easily get 10-15 thousand for just a basic house if not more.  But then you have the issue of not being able to use it when you want to.  You could also do daily/weekly rentals for when you're not gonna be there and get back some of the cost of ownership and still have use of the house when you want it


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2019)

The reality is that if you're looking to buy a 2nd home, get some use out of it, and get enough rental income to cover the costs associated with it, the overwhelming majority of the time, that's just not going to happen


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## slatham (Dec 10, 2019)

drjeff said:


> The reality is that if you're looking to buy a 2nd home, get some use out of it, and get enough rental income to cover the costs associated with it, the overwhelming majority of the time, that's just not going to happen



Agreed, unless your willing to rent it for Christmas and MLK and Presidents week. Then maybe. But then that’s a large part of of the ski season for someone else to use your place!


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## tumbler (Dec 10, 2019)

You are not going to cover enough of your costs renting it out some of the time.  Full time is even cutting it close.  I would do the seasonal rental.  For the first time buyer I highly recommend going the condo route for the reasons Dr J covered.  If you are young and not experienced in owning and managing a primary home then the 2nd home will kill you.  Take all the maintenance and services you have to line up and manage and let the HOA handle.  
Another important point is you cannot put a value on experiences and happiness.  You are not going to get a monetary return on that.


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## hughconway (Dec 11, 2019)

Does anyone know if the bottom bullwheel and drive housing got installed for the quad last week as 'scheduled'?


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## ShadyGrove (Dec 11, 2019)

PaulR said:


> Yep, saw that.
> 1910 stone foundation, full crawl space basement...can you say "critters?"  lol
> can be fixed though if your industrious.
> Electric heat too, I'd convert to propane, or add propane somehow, fireplace etc.
> ...



The current owner of that house builds rock walls and has done a ton of work on that home.  I can't vouch for it, but certainly wouldn't assume the worst. 

Of course, it's right on a very busy intersection and trucks jake-braking on south 100 into town may not be to your liking.


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## ShadyGrove (Dec 11, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> How much do you think you'd realistically pull in for rental income though in Londonderry?
> 
> I only throw caution as you need to be prepared for that house to sit vacant pretty much all summer no matter how cheap you have it listed on AirBnB.
> 
> ...



My friends in Londonderry pay their year round mortgage with winter weekend AirBnB rentals.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 11, 2019)

ShadyGrove said:


> My friends in Londonderry pay their year round mortgage *with winter weekend* AirBnB rentals.



But therein lies the problem.


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## JimG. (Dec 11, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> But therein lies the problem.



Unless they're retired and ski midweek.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 11, 2019)

Was reading this arcticle, and this thread came to mind. Don't mean to pollute the awesome Magic thread, but thought some of you may read it. Especially the comments down at the bottom....

VT Digger


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## MG Skier (Dec 12, 2019)

hughconway said:


> Does anyone know if the bottom bullwheel and drive housing got installed for the quad last week as 'scheduled'?


 Hugh, it did not due to the snowstorm....In one of the alpine reports or possibly an email to pass holders, I cant remember.... Magic had some delays getting the communication line for that lift shipped from overseas-through customs etc and it got hung up at the USA port. So between weather and com. line.....I believe a new schedule for lift completion is being put together. I spoke with Geoff briefly on Saturday, they want that lift done ASAP. 

You can also do what I do.....look at the live facebook feed on youtube.....skimagicvt LIVE STREAM ...... I see the snow flying in the learn to ski area!


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## urungus (Dec 12, 2019)

Today’s snow report is pretty brutal, on Saturday only 2 trails will be open, Green Chair -> Wand -> ShowOff


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## hughconway (Dec 12, 2019)

MG Skier said:


> Hugh, it did not due to the snowstorm....In one of the alpine reports or possibly an email to pass holders, I cant remember.... Magic had some delays getting the communication line for that lift shipped from overseas-through customs etc and it got hung up at the USA port. So between weather and com. line.....I believe a new schedule for lift completion is being put together. I spoke with Geoff briefly on Saturday, they want that lift done ASAP.
> 
> You can also do what I do.....look at the live facebook feed on youtube.....skimagicvt LIVE STREAM ...... I see the snow flying in the learn to ski area!



Thank you for the information and the tip on the live cam!


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## NYDB (Jan 3, 2020)

Twas a good couple of days at Magic after the new years storm.  First the east side blues and greens and then some snow later in the day on the 1st led to some westside exploring.  

The Boss himself was out shoveling some snow bridges on the chute and lower wiz yesterday.   Twas a fun day to close out xmas vaca.  

Always amazed at how much can get open with 8" of snow on bare ground.  The initial sleet/ice layer helped a bunch.  Very supportive snow.  

Was out hiking on the 28th and it looked like this


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## slatham (Jan 3, 2020)

A very dense 8" with the proper order of operation - freezing rain to bond with ground, then sleet to provide an inch or so of "snowmaking-like" base, then wet snow and sleet mixed, then snow. Average water to "snow" ratio probably 1 to 4. Normal 1 to 10-12. Blower 1 to 15-20. The 2-4" this Saturday/Sunday will help and then mid week needs to be watched. Do Work should also be back in snowmaking business too starting Sunday sundown. Lets go winter!


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## sledride (Jan 3, 2020)

Predictions for Sunday? Considering Magic vs Black (freedom pass). Looks like Black will get more snow but they hardly have anything open.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 3, 2020)

unless sat>sun produces real heavy, i don't know if magic is prime yet. the magic locals crowd on here would know better. my plan is K sunday to ski powder.


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## slatham (Jan 3, 2020)

sledride said:


> Predictions for Sunday? Considering Magic vs Black (freedom pass). Looks like Black will get more snow but they hardly have anything open.



If you can wait until Saturday afternoon to make the call I would. Models showing it may start as non-frozen at Magic. Whether it does, and how quickly it changes, will make a big difference. Black has better chance of all snow. Magic with 2-4" would ski well with decent amount of natural trails in play.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 5, 2020)

Black Mountain will be slow to drop ropes while Magic will drop them as fast as humanly possible.

Black is great but wait until snow depths improve. I just got back from northern NH and there's probably the same base/snow in Southern VT right now. As in not a lot but enough for Magic to open stuff with a little help.


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## sledride (Jan 5, 2020)

Thanks for the info, decided to pass on today.  This storm seemed to fizzle and it didn't seem worth the drive.  Had a great mini powder day at Burke on New Years Day though.


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## hughconway (Jan 6, 2020)

I made my first visit of the year yesterday to use a ticket from the freedom 4 pack I bought in the fall.  While the trail selection was very limited, what was open ski'd very well and I had a pretty nice afternoon.

I was a bit disappointed (but not at all surprised) to see that there has been zero visible progress on the new quad that is supposed to be ready in 2 weeks.  No bullwheel up top, no bullwheel or drive housing at the bottom, no comm cable.  As I unfortunately predicted months ago, there is a 0.0% chance of that lift being completed and inspected for the 2019/2020 season.  Not a big deal in and of itself, but just another failed promise from management.  I'd be absolutely livid if I were one of the people who were tricked into buying a pass with the promise of that lift and a snowmaking pond expansion obviously has not happened either.


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## NYDB (Jan 6, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I made my first visit of the year yesterday to use a ticket from the freedom 4 pack I bought in the fall.  While the trail selection was very limited, what was open ski'd very well and I had a pretty nice afternoon.
> 
> I was a bit disappointed (but not at all surprised) to see that there has been zero visible progress on the new quad that is supposed to be ready in 2 weeks.  No bullwheel up top, no bullwheel or drive housing at the bottom, no comm cable.  As I unfortunately predicted months ago, there is a 0.0% chance of that lift being completed and inspected for the 2019/2020 season.  Not a big deal in and of itself, but just another failed promise from management.  I'd be absolutely livid if I were one of the people who were tricked into buying a pass with the promise of that lift and a snowmaking pond expansion obviously has not happened either.



I'm not thrilled about the new lift not being available at all for 19/20, but just curious;  What other failed promises have there been?


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## icecoast1 (Jan 6, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I'd be absolutely livid if I were one of the people who were tricked into buying a pass with the promise of that lift and a snowmaking pond expansion obviously has not happened either.



Nobody held a gun to our heads and forced us to buy a pass.


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## danimals (Jan 6, 2020)

I’ve been watching the magic saga from afar, and while the lift will be cool it’s also not what’s stopping me from making the 6 hr drive for my first visit. It’s the damn weather. Once winter kicks in I’ll be there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PaulR (Jan 6, 2020)

Anyone here part of the Magic FB group?  Maybe someone there knows what's going on.

I'm still rooting for them.  I know a lot of people are.


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## skithetrees (Jan 6, 2020)

Realistically, the lift matters 5 days a year and, even then, the lines will compare to nearby mountains with much less crowding once on the slopes.  The situation will be no worse this year than last year. In the grand scheme of things, this is barely a blip on my radar.


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## camberstick (Jan 6, 2020)

skithetrees said:


> Realistically, the lift matters 5 days a year and, even then, the lines will compare to nearby mountains with much less crowding once on the slopes.  The situation will be no worse this year than last year. In the grand scheme of things, this is barely a blip on my radar.



This is so true. Not having the black chair has never stopped me from going there and having a great time. they just need the weather switch to flip and get those trees filled in!


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## slatham (Jan 6, 2020)

PaulR said:


> Anyone here part of the Magic FB group?  Maybe someone there knows what's going on.
> 
> I'm still rooting for them.  I know a lot of people are.



From Friday's "Alpine Update": And, our lift contractor for the Quad has been back in touch and finalizing plans for a crane big enough to install the bottom bullwheel and terminal housing. Obviously we have been anxious to move forward and it appears now that the holiday is over, the contractors are ready to finally get back in the game.


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## slatham (Jan 6, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I'd be absolutely livid if I were one of the people who were tricked into buying a pass with the promise of that lift and a snowmaking pond expansion obviously has not happened either.



Being "tricked" into buying a pass would be true if management decided against installing the Quad after selling passes. The facts are that complications and contractor delays - not uncommon in such an installation - are the reasons the Quad is not in yet. No bad faith by management.

The pond was always subject to Act 250 approvals which came at the end of June which was too late for this past summer. And its also been irrelevant because they did receive permission and built an intake facility off the Thompsonburg Creek to replenish the pond. They have not had any issues with lack of water.  The weather on the other hand.......


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 6, 2020)

It will get done as soon as it reasonably can be. It been a weather battle, just like it has for EVERY other resort/ski area. At least it is going in, and we aren't waiting another 10 years until they could buy a new one, "installed". It was a great deal, and generous of Stratton to sell it to them. Just have to go thru the "do it yourself" process which everyone knew up front wasn't going to be as speedy as having LP or Dopp come in and do an install. It is what it is, and I'm sure it STILL will be done in less time than Green was! :lol:


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## skimagic (Jan 6, 2020)

Definitely not out of the ordinary with the delayed install. The Montana Snow bowl, a place similar to Magic in a few ways, is in the third year of a used riblet double install. Should be any week now.


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## crazy (Jan 6, 2020)

I wouldn't blame Magic for the slow lift install. If you've been keeping up on it, there have been lots of challenges, many outside of management's control including issues with various contractors. I've been following the saga from the sidelines, and don't feel like Magic tried to mislead anybody about when the lift would be installed. I felt like they were quite frank about sharing a timeline but not making any promises, with the acknowledgement that delays could happen.

I'm happy that the lift is getting installed, but part of me doesn't mind the limited uphill capacity that comes with the existing double lift. Except on the most crowded days when it can get frustrating waiting in line, it's nice that trail conditions are preserved throughout the day.

Like many others here, I'm just waiting for conditions to get better before checking out Magic a couple of times this season. Magic is a fantastic little operation, I'm grateful that places like this still exist. A lot of labor and love hasgone into this place. I'm sure I'll see some of you there next time it dumps.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 6, 2020)

Don’t impute bad motives on the magic management.


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## WoodCore (Jan 6, 2020)

I'll go out on a limb and say that the Black Quad will spin this year! As long as the drive gets picked this week and the comm line is on site ready for install, it's completely possible it could spin by Presidents week. Magic does seem to get hit by bad luck when it comes to lift installs so I admire their commitment to get the job done despite all the set backs beyond their control. Always finding a way....


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## AbominableSnowman (Jan 7, 2020)

WoodCore said:


> I'll go out on a limb and say that the Black Quad will spin this year! As long as the drive gets picked this week and the comm line is on site ready for install, it's completely possible it could spin by Presidents week. Magic does seem to get hit by bad luck when it comes to lift installs so I admire their commitment to get the job done despite all the set backs beyond their control. Always finding a way....



I'll add that I respect their upfront and consistent communication regarding both the lift and the snowmaking [as well as the progress of other projects].   It is "uplifting" to know that there is a management team out there in the world that has [finally] figured out the value of effective communication with their customers. Well done!


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## slatham (Jan 9, 2020)

From Magics most recent weekly Apline Update:

In talking with our lift contractor for the Quad, one winch snocat arrived yesterday and has since been been tracked up by our crew so it's ready for use by the Pfister Mountain Services. It will be needed for installing the haul rope, communications line and upper bullwheel. The 400-ton crane is still being lined up by Pfister for the tricky bottom terminal housing/bullwheel install. There is still much to do but our focus is still on completing the lift during this ski season. We appreciate everyone's patience with the issues we have encountered during this major project.


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## MG Skier (Jan 9, 2020)

So my first time at Magic was a few years back before the Green Chair was green and on the radar and When Black Chair ran occasionally. With only the Red chair on a busy ski day and or Race Day it was tough as far as long, long, slow lines. (red is slow if you didn't know, but I am OK with that!)

Once the Green Chair came on line, it was the lift primarily used by the racers (when the race was on the East Side = Green and Red lift side of Magic.) There was a rather easy wait despite the race and that was a huge step in the right direction.

So, yes Black chair will help a lot but the Red and Green combination works!

If you ever hike the mountain and see the rock, especially on West Side where the Black Lift is, imagine excavating for a footing. 

Make it Happen Magic!


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## NYDB (Jan 12, 2020)

Jeebus.

Carnage on the webcam.  

Vibes.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 12, 2020)

Skied for a few runs yesterday afternoon and it was obvious any way down today would have issues. Wise to close.

Plus the snow was rather unpleasant even though softened. 



NY DirtBag said:


> Jeebus.
> 
> Carnage on the webcam.
> 
> Vibes.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2020)

Hopefully we'll be back to 100% open on a 10" base in a week or so


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## MG Skier (Jan 15, 2020)

Seems that is the new norm.....thaw/freeze/resurface or no Natural Snow what so ever....I am speaking generally over the last 6 years or so.


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## danimals (Jan 15, 2020)

MG Skier said:


> Seems that is the new norm.....thaw/freeze/resurface or no Natural Snow what so ever....I am speaking generally over the last 6 years or so.



I agree. I mostly ride in PA and NY but I remember never really worrying much about the weather 2000-2010 as I could just go to any hill really and it was cold and there was snow. And when it snowed locally (lots of nor’easters) in southern NJ schools were out for a few days and the snow stuck around for weeks...

Now we get a storm once every few years, and the snow is all gone within 48 hours.

Hell there used to two small ski hills in south jersey that are now gone due to weather. 

Looks like winter is back and staying for a while though, can’t wait to get to magic for my first time in March!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 15, 2020)

Last year was one of the best snow years for Vermont (much better for NoVT however) in several decades. The year before I was skiing waist deep powder at Magic Mountain. 

Just saying don't hang your skis up yet.


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## slatham (Jan 15, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Last year was one of the best snow years for Vermont (much better for NoVT however) in several decades. The year before I was skiing waist deep powder at Magic Mountain.
> 
> Just saying don't hang your skis up yet.



That's a very deceiving statement:
1) That was not the case for SoVT - snowfall was below historical averages.
2) Even up north they suffered frequent thaws. I was at Stowe in March and the snow stake was at an impressive and wonderful 100+" depth but it was still rock hard and did not ski great.

Although I agree with your point about not hanging up your skis. There have been some great streaks of skiing with some great powder days over the past several years. You just have to watch the weather and time it right.

And I've been skiing for 50 year. Freeze/thaws and especially the January thaw have been consistent events.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 15, 2020)

It's not a deceiving statement at all sounds like you just prefer glass half empty mentality especially if you didn't like the skiing in NoVT last March


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 15, 2020)

i'm real curious as to what they get today-tomorrow and sat-sun. right now i am at jay saturday, but i'd love to drive down sunday morning, ski free at magic, shorten my drive home. then again, sunday morning isn't looking like the greatest time to drive 120 miles from lyndonville to londonderry...

unfortunately i think they are starting this period of snow with shitty enough conditions that 6-10" won't really matter or open much...


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## hughconway (Jan 15, 2020)

Wow.  MLK weekend is here already.  I've used one of my Magic 4 pack tickets - 3 left. My original plan (based on projections that the quad would be completed & inspected by now) was to use one this weekend and the other two on the weekends flanking presidents week/school vacation to avoid the crowds at Killington.

I just checked the webcam and there hasn't been any visible progress on the quad since I was there a couple of weeks ago (shocker!) and presidents weekend is now only a month away.  Given the current conditions and the crowds that will show up if there is a storm Friday into Saturday, I don't think it's worth heading back to Magic this season.  4 Pack pricing breaks down to $52.25/day of skiing.  Anyone interested in buying 1 (or all 3) of the tickets I have left?  I'll cut my losses and sell for $40 each or $110 for all 3.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 15, 2020)

the storm is saturday into sunday and likely won't do enough to change the status quo on terrain. 

you are foolish to give up on your magic four pack in mid january. we will be skiing pow in february and march at magic, no doubt. maybe even end of january. 

who gives a shit about the quad? its a nice to have, not a need to have. magic has been fine the past few years with red, and green has relieved the beginner/racer strain on red. don't give magic and their team a hard time. they are a small operation running on elbow grease and passion, and its common for massive projects like this to experience delays.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 15, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Wow.  MLK weekend is here already.  I've used one of my Magic 4 pack tickets - 3 left. My original plan (based on projections that the quad would be completed & inspected by now) was to use one this weekend and the other two on the weekends flanking presidents week/school vacation to avoid the crowds at Killington.
> 
> I just checked the webcam and there hasn't been any visible progress on the quad since I was there a couple of weeks ago (shocker!) and presidents weekend is now only a month away.  Given the current conditions and the crowds that will show up if there is a storm Friday into Saturday, I don't think it's worth heading back to Magic this season.  4 Pack pricing breaks down to $52.25/day of skiing.  Anyone interested in buying 1 (or all 3) of the tickets I have left?  I'll cut my losses and sell for $40 each or $110 for all 3.



I respect your decision to sell, however I have 4 "already paid" Magic passes to use this season (which I hope to share with my wife, so maybe 2 trips total). I am not concerned in the slightest about saving these for a little later on.

Remember, Magic will open terrain on less base than their neighbors. If you know how to steer on skis (away from rocks and water bars), this is a good thing. After this week's snow we should be half way there. They have already been at 100% open this season, and they will not hesitate to expand trail count whenever humanly possible.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 15, 2020)

seriously. if i didnt have my own 4 pack and lots of other pass products floating around, i'd buy his remaining tickets and then post copious amounts of pics of me using them to ski powder in feb and march.


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## icecoast1 (Jan 15, 2020)

Winter's coming back and staying for a while this time from the looks of it.  Seems pretty crazy to give up cheap tickets right now.  There will definitely be days in feb/march that will be worth it.  If I didnt already have a Magic pass I'd buy them in a heartbeat .  Also, the quad hardly ever ran before and that never stopped you from having a good day


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 15, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Wow.  MLK weekend is here already.  I've used one of my Magic 4 pack tickets - 3 left. My original plan (based on projections that the quad would be completed & inspected by now) was to use one this weekend and the other two on the weekends flanking presidents week/school vacation to avoid the crowds at Killington.
> 
> I just checked the webcam and there hasn't been any visible progress on the quad since I was there a couple of weeks ago (shocker!) and presidents weekend is now only a month away.  Given the current conditions and the crowds that will show up if there is a storm Friday into Saturday, I don't think it's worth heading back to Magic this season.  4 Pack pricing breaks down to $52.25/day of skiing.  Anyone interested in buying 1 (or all 3) of the tickets I have left?  I'll cut my losses and sell for $40 each or $110 for all 3.



DM Sent


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## NYDB (Jan 15, 2020)

Assuming 9-12'' between the 2 upcoming snow systems, I think by sunday AM you'll have natural green and blue terrain open on the east side (experts only, thin cover style) but that is about it.  If I had a 4 pack I wouldn't burn one, but should be an enjoyable sunday.  

I selfishly hope the limited terrain keeps the crowds manageable.  

Last year MLK sunday was the busiest day I have ever seen at Magic after a storm, but they had more terrain open.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> you are foolish to give up on your magic four pack in mid january. we will be skiing pow in february and march at magic, no doubt. maybe even end of january.





KustyTheKlown said:


> seriously. if i didnt have my own 4 pack and lots of other pass products floating around, i'd buy his remaining tickets and then post copious amounts of pics of me using them to ski powder in feb and march.



Or Sunday. 

 If you decide to head down, let me know.  If a bed helps, you got one.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 15, 2020)

^thank you. very much appreciated. 

i'm 100% at jay on saturday and as of now i have a room in lyndonville with plans to ski burke sunday, or head back up to jay if burke underperforms. as much as i'd love to come south and ski magic sunday and make my final drive so much shorter, i'm not 100% sold on the snow being enough to make a major difference after magic got kicked in the dick last week. i'm also a bit concerned about the general safety of driving from lyndonville to londonderry on saturday evening or early sunday in the snow.

but i will certainly be back and we will shred the magic.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 15, 2020)

I'll take his spot. If you put out flowers I like those yellow roses and baby's breath. Also fair warning I can drink a lot of beer so if I show up and there's an empty fridge at least text me first I can grab a case.


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## slatham (Jan 16, 2020)

WWWWWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY too early to give up 3 cheap tickets! Hell, one of my best seasons at Magic started on February 5th! Check out the Magic promo pick with Matt/Do Work in a red onesie - that was the start of a great run!


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 16, 2020)

is the dude selling the 4-pack the one that keeps shitting on them for not completing the lift? I'm not rereading to answer that myself...


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## icecoast1 (Jan 16, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> is the dude selling the 4-pack the one that keeps shitting on them for not completing the lift? I'm not rereading to answer that myself...




Yup.  Apparently the black lift is life or death to him


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 16, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Yup.  Apparently the black lift is life or death to him




:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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## tnt1234 (Jan 17, 2020)

odds on Sunday being worth a 4-1/2 hour drive and a hotel?

I've been planning to day trip Sunday, which for me means poconos or catskills, and was really resigned to fighting the crowds at Blu. for a short day.  But now I think I can pull off an over-night and head up Saturday.  Just trying to figure out if it's gonna be worth the effort.

Unfortunately i think it's gonna be a big gamble...


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## tnt1234 (Jan 17, 2020)

Hmmm....weather.com winter storm watch calls for 7-17" in Manchester....


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## drjeff (Jan 17, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> Hmmm....weather.com winter storm watch calls for 7-17" in Manchester....



If it low sides, with basically no base where they haven't made snow, probably not worth it, and even that might not be enough for Magic's aggressive rope dropping policy to come into much more than low angle stuff opening....  If it high sides, then probably a good deal of ropes drop, and it's worth it...  Now if only we knew exactly where the heavier snow bands will set up, and for how long on Saturday night??


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## MG Skier (Jan 17, 2020)

Just bring a few pair of skis, I did that in December at Magic and had a blast. Spent the morning remembering how to ski (first day out) on my good skis, transitioned to the not-so-good skis and explored a bit. It was a heck of a first day!


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## tnt1234 (Jan 17, 2020)

Well, if I wake up Sunday and Magic only got 6" or so, I could always go to Bromly or Okemo.  Bromley looks like they have a decent base left, with a fair number of trails open.  And they are a little higher elevation, so maybe they catch a little more snow?

We'll see - try to iron out plans tonight, but it kind of feels like it's worth the gamble


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## Greg (Jan 17, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> odds on Sunday being worth a 4-1/2 hour drive and a hotel?
> 
> ....
> 
> Unfortunately i think it's gonna be a big gamble...



Same boat more or less, but within 2 1/2. Will need to monitor. May just crash off 91 and make a game day decision as to where.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 17, 2020)

Greg said:


> Same boat more or less, but within 2 1/2. Will need to monitor. May just crash off 91 and make a game day decision as to where.



2-1/2 you could day trip, no?


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## drjeff (Jan 17, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> 2-1/2 you could day trip, no?



Might be 2 1/2 home after the snow on Sunday for Greg, but would probably be much longer heading up in the snow on Sunday AM if he day tripped it is my guess...


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 17, 2020)

yea i would love to ski magic sunday if they are able to open things up, but im starting at jay on saturday and staying near burke. driving south on saturday evening or sunday morning sounds dangerous.


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## MG Skier (Jan 17, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yea i would love to ski magic sunday if they are able to open things up, but im starting at jay on saturday and staying near burke. driving south on saturday evening or sunday morning sounds dangerous.



Krusty, I doubt (but I have been wrong before) that ropes drop on West side.....as far a s driving.......Ski Jay Saturday, Drive, at Night, including 91 south High Altitude mark and the stretch through 89 that is up in the clouds (and sticks) = no fun at all. Be safe man!


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 17, 2020)

yea im gonna either do jay x2 or jay + burke. not worth the rush down south in the weather, especially with monday off work and no need to get home super early.


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## crazy (Jan 17, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yea im gonna either do jay x2 or jay + burke. not worth the rush down south in the weather, especially with monday off work and no need to get home super early.



Magic's forecast snow totals keep looking better and better. Not saying that Burke won't be good, I'm just saying.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 18, 2020)

I don't think I'm going to risk it - looking at what they have open right now, I just don't think even 10-12" is going to open the goods.

I think we'll go to the catskills tomorrow.

I hope I'm wrong and Magic gets 15-20 and goes off tomorrow.


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## NYDB (Jan 18, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> I don't think I'm going to risk it - looking at what they have open right now, I just don't think even 10-12" is going to open the goods.
> 
> I think we'll go to the catskills tomorrow.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong and Magic gets 15-20 and goes off tomorrow.



If by goods you mean double black terrain and majority of trees, then I would say I agree.  I'm hoping for all east side minus TZ and goniff plus tali / sorcerer/ wizard all the way and maybe a few low angle Eastside trees.  IMO that's best case scenario for tomorrow.  Would love to be proved incorrect on the upside.  Thinking 7-9 in tonight.


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## Greg (Jan 18, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Might be 2 1/2 home after the snow on Sunday for Greg, but would probably be much longer heading up in the snow on Sunday AM if he day tripped it is my guess...



Pretty much. Found it a lot easier to just crash nearby and leisurely make our way to the mountain in the morning. These days often with my with my 13 year old in tow and this approach also allows for invaluable bonding time.

Decided to bag it. Will assess who gets what and head out somewhere Monday. Given the conditions leading up to this storm plus being MLK Sunday, just decided to wait it out and see.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 19, 2020)

Still a little thin but we certainly managed to have a good time.  Skis even survived.


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## NYDB (Jan 20, 2020)

Indeed was fun day.  1st 3 runs untracked/mostly untracked through up your sleeve, mystery and kinder spiel.  Couldn't really throw a deep turn but twas super fun.  15-20 min or so redline chair wait from 10-lunch and green had a 5-10 min line at same time.  Then after lunch it was ski on to a couple min wait on green and 10 or so on red.  Talked to several people with PM lift tickets who were refugees from mt snow and stratton.  They were thrilled with the crowd levels at Magic.

Was happy to wait at the bottom to ride with lower skier traffic from the top.

No damage to boards which was a bit of a surprise to be honest.


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## PaulR (Jan 20, 2020)

I'm seeing reports on Ski The East Facebook that even some of the mid sized mountains had crowds this weekend, but overall the post above confirms what I've noticed this past year (as I now delve into having to ski weekends):

If you really MUST ski on a weekend in South/Central VT, stick to the small/mid sized mountains like Magic and you'll be much happier.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 20, 2020)

Boy, I sure hope the stars align for me to repeat a trip to Magic this year.  really had a blast on our first and only day (so far) last year.


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## slatham (Jan 20, 2020)

I was there today and it was pretty quiet (as was Bromley). But it was a beautiful day. Groomers were sweet all day. Natural trails required rocks skis and rapt attention, but anyone venturing properly equipped was the better for it. 6 guns blasting on Hocus Pocus to finish up the widening. Guns started early afternoon on lower wizard, then lower Tali, with Tali steeps probably tonight. That will be a game changer. Hopefully we get this coming weekends storm to deliver - the base is down, put 12" on it and its go time.


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## skithetrees (Jan 20, 2020)

I was really impressed with the snow making fire power that I saw this weekend. Granted I don’t get up there nearly as much as I used to (formerly 2-3 times a week) but it was easily three times as many guns as I have ever seen running simultaneously. The effort and commitment is clear. Good work!


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 21, 2020)

How we feelin about west side access this weekend? Thinking Sunday. Nice sat-sun storm in view...


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 21, 2020)

skithetrees said:


> I was really impressed with the snow making fire power that I saw this weekend.



Incredible display.  Most in a long long time.  They're back @ it now.  

Without checking the weather, i'd say i's gonna be another great weekend.
  See you Sunday Kusty


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 21, 2020)

yep, leaning heavy towards magic sunday. will be with a buddy. he's a decent skier but a huge pussy.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 21, 2020)

Hahah.  we'll go easy on him.  Tell him to bring his good skis.


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## slatham (Jan 21, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> How we feelin about west side access this weekend? Thinking Sunday. Nice sat-sun storm in view...



Alpine report indicates good progress down low but will need a decent storm to open upper wizard into and through the Talisman steeps. Weather models certainly indicating this is possible, but I will caveat that at this time last week the models said 2” for the Thursday storm and 12”+ for Sunday. Reality was 4-6” and then 6-8”. So check back in 48 hours......


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 21, 2020)

Isn't Talisman a snowmaking trail?


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## slatham (Jan 21, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Isn't Talisman a snowmaking trail?



Yes. They've just started making snow on it. They are starting down low as they have temps. Given the way this winter has gone you have to make snow down low whenever you can. Given forecast they will not get to the steeps or upper Wizard this week. Thus they need natural. Luckily things look good with this weekend storm BUT its only Tuesday.....


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## MMP (Jan 21, 2020)

Up your sleeve skied great yesterday. Soft small low angle bumps. Super fun. Kinder too. Fun apres band Sunday. People
Had a blast. They have unfucked the lift line situation and actually checked tickets. Set Your Soul Free!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 22, 2020)




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## MMP (Jan 22, 2020)

Can you still have fun, Wilson? 


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Hahah.  we'll go easy on him.  Tell him to bring his good skis.



he balked at the whole "ok i'll pick you up friday night at 2:30 AM and we drive straight to sugarbush and then to manchester to a $70 motel" and is now out of the plan. as i said, a pussy. an albany based snowboard friend may meet up on sunday. he is not a pussy and makes up any lack in technical prowess with balls to ride any terrain. stoked for the weekend.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 22, 2020)

That's it.  My vendetta amongst lodge items now include straws, glitter, the giant Connect 4, & Phish.


Keep us posted Kusty.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

jimmy's post shows blank for me. i wanna know the phish joke!


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 22, 2020)

Jimmy is blank for me too.  

MMP just quoted a Phish song.  Someone in the lodge has been extremely Phish heavy this year.  All the 42 minute jams in particular.


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## cdskier (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> jimmy's post shows blank for me. i wanna know the phish joke!



Shows blank on my destkop, but on my iPhone via the AZ app it looks like a Phish video from Youtube. If I try to play it though, it says it is unavailable.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

lol. we used to go to bars in college (washington dc) that had those internet jukeboxes, and we'd throw on the YEM from A Live One, which is like 35 mintues with an extended vocal jam. then we'd walk out of the bar and leave them to enjoy.


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## MMP (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> lol. we used to go to bars in college (washington dc) that had those internet jukeboxes, and we'd throw on the YEM from A Live One, which is like 35 mintues with an extended vocal jam. then we'd walk out of the bar and leave them to enjoy.




Fluffhead is my go to F You to the lodge. 

This year I have heard Why Does it Hurt When I Pee on 2 occasions on that thing.

Wilsons post is a Set Your Soul Free youtube.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

lol. i love hearing zappa at magic. happens often. the soundtrack of the BLT is one of many reasons why magic is so great.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 22, 2020)

don't know why my set your soul free vid won't show... 

my F You juke box songs are some of the more annoying Ween songs.  I once downloaded and paid like 4 bucks to play the Poopship destroyer from painting the town brown.  Holy shit there is no way they let that one play longer than 4 minutes  Its like 30 mintues long


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 22, 2020)

Boom.  Stolen from FB


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

a little worried about the temps for this storm. dot gov still has it as all snow, but dot com has some mixing, and the most recent post from skiology is preaching caution. a heavy wet snow will be good for the base tho...

single chair weather blog is more positive.

scwb re: mrg - "Ultimately this will evolve and become a "vertically stacked" storm meaning that the upper low will move directly over the surface storm. These situations create a very elevation sensitive dynamic. Snowfall accumulations, snow consistency, perhaps for a small period - precipitation type and certainly temperature will all be dependent on elevation. We should receive a decent burst of snow Saturday evening and then a lot of elevation sensitive snow Sunday, Sunday night and into early Monday. If the outlook for the storm can settle on the current consensus, snowfall totals will likely be less than 6 inches total for the low lying valley areas but over a foot across the high country. The snow consistency will also be pretty gloppy in these low lying areas but drier and more powdery above 2000 feet."

i just hope i dont have to go to ::gasps:: stratton, for elevation.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

not liking the latest gfs run...


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> not liking the latest gfs run...



looking good for my NH trip


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

im just hoping the model isn't accounting for elevation sensitivities


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 22, 2020)

does seem like an odd "miss" for VT between ADKs and Whites. I doubt it pans out that way.

Sat Sun at Bretton Woods 2700' forecast to be 25 degrees. Yeah that's north but it seems to be some wiggle room for Vermont's peaks.


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## tnt1234 (Jan 22, 2020)

MMP said:


> Fluffhead is my go to F You to the lodge.
> 
> This year I have heard Why Does it Hurt When I Pee on 2 occasions on that thing.
> 
> Wilsons post is a Set Your Soul Free youtube.



....How is Fluffhead an F-you?  I'd be totally stoked to walk into a bar and hear that one...

And I also wouldn't play YEM and leave though....



Weather seems a little dicey for this weekend...soem earlier run had Platty in the bullseye again, but weather.com talking about like a 3-5 kind of event....hard to figure....once again, Sunday is really my only shot, and can't stay over Sat. night.

Will Magic open Monday if they score big Sunday>Sunday night?


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## tnt1234 (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> a little worried about the temps for this storm. dot gov still has it as all snow, but dot com has some mixing, and the most recent post from skiology is preaching caution. a heavy wet snow will be good for the base tho...
> 
> single chair weather blog is more positive.
> 
> ...



Dude, don't you like day trip to Jay from Booklyn?  If Magic misses, go to MRG....seems like an obvious choice....


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

lol I don’t day trip to jay. Killington/gore is my day trip limit. 

I’m going to sugarbush or mad on Saturday but had my heart set on magic Sunday. 

I prefer skiing soVT on sundays so I get home at a decent time. I’m also planning to meet a friend who lives in Albany and he’s way more into a soVT Sunday plan. Finally, I have a hotel reserved in Manchester so I’m out the (meager) $70 if I don’t use it


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## MMP (Jan 22, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> ....How is Fluffhead an F-you?  I'd be totally stoked to walk into a bar and hear that one...
> 
> And I also wouldn't play YEM and leave though....
> 
> ...



Because it’s weird in the middle and long as fuck and I love it. 

AWWWWWW YAHHHHHHHHHHH


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

playing YEM and leaving is just a fuck you mic drop to the bar. most people dont want to hear a 35 min yem with a vocal jam.

i dont even really dig phish anymore. i'm a huge hater of 3.0, and i hardly ever spin 1.0 and 2.0 anymore. its definitely what i grew up with and used to be very important to me, but i just stopped caring. 

dead, biscuits, jrad, and non-jamband music for me mostly.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 22, 2020)

If you played some 1991-1994 era nobody would complain. A nice '92 SOAM would have heads banging.


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## MMP (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> biscuits



Ugh. No. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 22, 2020)

best improvisational jam rockers in the game yo


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## deadheadskier (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> best improvisational jam rockers in the game yo


They've been playing well lately. Certainly reinvigorated.  Hopefully Brownie's eye issue doesn't slow that momentum.  

I've never gotten huge into them.  I saw them a bunch in the late 90s late night after Phish shows.  Only periodically since, but I get why people are passionate about them.   Next time they play State Theatre in Portland again, I'll probably go.

I'm with you on 3.0 Phish.  I see a show once every other year or so and it reminds me that stadium dad rock just isn't my thing.  

For music, I'm mostly content in seeing shows at my local music club The Stone Church here in Newmarket.  Zero hassles.  Coolest little music club on the planet.  Ween is the one somewhat larger band I'll make an exception for.  Looking forward to going to Terminal 5 in a few weeks to see them.  Haven't hung out in Manhattan in close to ten years. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## tnt1234 (Jan 22, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> playing YEM and leaving is just a fuck you mic drop to the bar. most people dont want to hear a 35 min yem with a vocal jam.
> 
> i dont even really dig phish anymore. i'm a huge hater of 3.0, and i hardly ever spin 1.0 and 2.0 anymore. its definitely what i grew up with and used to be very important to me, but i just stopped caring.
> 
> dead, biscuits, jrad, and non-jamband music for me mostly.




I got ya...

It's funny, I'm kind of the opposite - always liked Phish well enough, but for the last 3 years, been really into them.  Except for the new songs that suck, like that fake band album...yuch,,,

But me and my daughters hit Camden every summer, and I have to say, I feel like they are clicking.  Maybe it's because I'm old like them...dunno.

But I also enjoy seeing Dead and Co.  Part of that is nostalgia for the scene.  But I dig Mayer's sound with them.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 22, 2020)

I had no idea DHS was a fellow Ween fan! 

I like 3.0 2.0 and 1.0.  I think some of their jamming in the last 3 years has been excellent. yes a lot of the newer songs blow, but some are good. 

I see a few shows per year but don't get all excited to travel to see them at this point in my life


Ok back to Magic

I need to get there


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 22, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> For music, I'm mostly content in seeing shows at my local music club The Stone Church here in Newmarket.  Zero hassles.  Coolest little music club on the planet.



Stone Church and Harlow's Pub in Peterborough are two of the coziest places to see some music


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## deadheadskier (Jan 22, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> I got ya...
> 
> It's funny, I'm kind of the opposite - always liked Phish well enough, but for the last 3 years, been really into them.  Except for the new songs that suck, like that fake band album...yuch,,,
> 
> ...


They've had their moments in 3.0 for sure, but I wouldn't agree that they are "clicking." They do at times and when they do it's the same old magic, but consistency is lacking.  Baker's Dozen in particular stands up to the old days.  

3.0 Phish is essentially 90s Grateful Dead.  Now my experience with Jerry was short lived. I'm 44. I saw JGB or GD 30 times from 89 to 95 due to having a very cool older brother.  I LIVED for those experiences even though looking back, 50% of the shows were pretty poorly played.  But I recall back then loving it all and simultaneously seeing bitter older fans being hypercritical.  Jaded Vets.  I didn't get it.......until I became a Jaded Phish vet. 

 Saw Phish for the first time in 93 and approximately 75 times through 99.  I've only seen them about 15 times since and I'm critical as hell when I do.  That's because 93-98 Phish was like 72 - 77 Grateful Dead.  Stunning performances every night, great new material...you walked into the venue every night thinking you could see something historic. 

Still glad that they're doing it.  Glad Dead and Co is too.  Mayer has been better than expected.  People find great joy still with both, they still want to do it, so party on. 

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## deadheadskier (Jan 22, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Stone Church and Harlow's Pub in Peterborough are two of the coziest places to see some music


You've been to the Stone Church in Newmarket?  Cool!  For the Breakfast by chance?  They still play here about once a year and I make sure I'm there for each one.  Lastly in November.

Cozy is a good word for the Stone Church. Especially when you live here walking distance from the venue.  Cozy is a good word for Newmarket in general.  

Have you been to the imposter in Brattleboro?  I haven't it, but it kind of irks me as an OG Stone Church guy. 

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## tnt1234 (Jan 22, 2020)

I'm 52, so a bit older.  Saw tGD from about 85-95.  Usually 3-4 times a year.  Almost impossibly never saw Phish until 3.0.  So there's that too.  I've listened to tons of 1.0, 2.0 over the years, but never saw them.

Yeah, I've heard the same abut early Phish - must have been special.  

But I would say 3.0 is better than tGD 90s.  At least better than 94-95.  90-92 was pretty good.  Jerry was just so far gone.  Our last show was a summer Giant stadium with an infamous Wharf Rat, where Jerry forgot everything.  Couldn't play the lick, couldn't remember the words, forgot the structure.  Bobby finally aborted the effort half way through it and cranked out another tune....comments on the archive are pretty funny. 

https://archive.org/details/gd95-06-18.aud.2543.sbeok.shnf


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 22, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I had no idea DHS was a fellow Ween fan!



Late to the party, but all about brown now.

I'm the classic VT raised kid who only heard of Ween because Phish played Roses.  Late 90s tried to check them out, but found their studio albums over produced and weird.  They didn't rock or jam on compact disc.

2006 I meet my now wife.  Early on she reveals Ween is her favorite band.  I say I don't really care for them, but dig Phishs version of Roses.  She says no, you need to see them live.  She brought the Live in Chicago DVD over to my apartment, I was floored and the rest is history.  I married Jess a year later and essentially any Ween show on a weekend or when I can get time off for within 2-3 hours of home, we've been at. Which obviously isn't nearly enough due to the break up and sparse schedule since getting back together.   

So pumped for NYC show.  The morning after the Boston show in Dec, I immediately got tickets and a hotel room for NYC when I hadn't planned on it prior.  Don't want to wait until they play Portland or Boston again because I might be waiting awhile.  



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## deadheadskier (Jan 22, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> I'm 52, so a bit older.  Saw tGD from about 85-95.  Usually 3-4 times a year.  Almost impossibly never saw Phish until 3.0.  So there's that too.  I've listened to tons of 1.0, 2.0 over the years, but never saw them.
> 
> Yeah, I've heard the same abut early Phish - must have been special.
> 
> ...


no doubt 3.0 Phish is better performing than 90s Dead.  We can thank Treys sobriety for that.  He was on pace for an earlier exit than Jerry before his arrest. I say this, but personally I'll take any shitty 90s GD show I saw over the best 3.0 Phish I've seen.  Even on the worst nights, Garcia would have 10-20 minutes of playing that was the most beautiful music I've ever felt. 



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## The Sneak (Jan 22, 2020)

I prefer the Ween side project “Moistboyz.” Unbelievably mindless metal. In high school (class of 96), a classmate heard I was into weird stuff and gave me a tape with 2 seminal 70s NYC albums on it: Richard Hell and the Voidoids ‘Blank Generation’ and Johnny Thunders Heartbreakers “L.A.M.F.’...filling out the tape was the first Moistboyz album. 

At first I was appalled by their moronic rap metal about Super Soaker squirt guns and the like, but it quickly became this cult thing. I was pleased to find out (years later) that there are more Moistboyz albums out there.

Warning: does not sound like Ween. Is not good by conventional definitions of artistry.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 23, 2020)

WTF happened here?  Weather went to shit.  Thread REALLY went to shit.

I'll be gathering myself for a moment tryin to figure a corrective action.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 23, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> WTF happened here?  Weather went to shit.  Thread REALLY went to shit.
> 
> I'll be gathering myself for a moment tryin to figure a corrective action.



Let's shock it back into the usual realm now...

How's the new Quad coming along? :wink:


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Jan 23, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Late to the party, but all about brown now.
> 
> I'm the classic VT raised kid who only heard of Ween because Phish played Roses.  Late 90s tried to check them out, but found their studio albums over produced and weird.  They didn't rock or jam on compact disc.
> 
> ...



I've seen Ween 40 times.  I'm a little burned out on this era of new music.  Still an amazing rock show, just not sure I want to travel to see them.  We hit up T5 for their return to the East Coast back in April 2016.  We had an amazing 4 days in NYC with 3 even more amazing Ween shows with no repeats!

Pro Move is to go to the Top floor and get a railing spot.  Not as crowded and there is a bar with short lines.

Again Back to the regularly scheduled Magic Mountain Discussion.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 23, 2020)

Ugh this forecast. Gonna have to eat the Manchester hotel room, and now I’ll probably book a cheapy near Montpelier and do some sort of Burke/mad river/sugarbush thing. Not booking til I see tomorrow’s forecasts. Gah.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 23, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Let's shock it back into the usual realm now...
> 
> How's the new Quad coming along? :wink:



It's like we regressed back to the "What the Heck s Going on @ Magic" thread again.  Focus people.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Jan 23, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> WTF happened here?  Weather went to shit.  Thread REALLY went to shit.



Seriously, I just had to skim though a zillion overrated pot-head jam band posts to look for Magic stuff.  Where's Scotty to take care of this?


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 23, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> You've been to the Stone Church in Newmarket?  Cool!  For the Breakfast by chance?  They still play here about once a year and I make sure I'm there for each one.  Lastly in November.
> 
> Cozy is a good word for the Stone Church. Especially when you live here walking distance from the venue.  Cozy is a good word for Newmarket in general.
> 
> ...



I’ve also been to the stone church! Used to be buddies with the guys in Raq and joined them for a Burlington/stone church weekend years ago. Cool room.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 23, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Seriously, I just had to skim though a zillion overrated pot-head jam band posts to look for Magic stuff. Where's Scotty to take care of this?




you must be a lot of fun in person...


----------



## PaulR (Jan 23, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Seriously, I just had to skim though a zillion overrated pot-head jam band posts to look for Magic stuff.  Where's Scotty to take care of this?



:lol:
I have ONE FB friend who is a Phish head, that's enough.  Takes up my whole news feed.
To bring it full circle:  Last time at Magic, caught a hawt chick with a MOE shirt on, while I'm dad/accountant/skier and not a pothead snowboarder per se, I thought that was pretty nice to see.  I do like MOE a LOT.

back to programming..............


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 23, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> you must be a lot of fun in person...



You havent lived till' you've seen my pinned butterfly collection, alphabetized by genus & species.


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## slatham (Jan 23, 2020)

Wow hasn't been a Magic thread hijacking in a while. It sucks......

Speaking of sucks - computer weather models! That said, this storm was always heading into a marginally cold air mass in the midst of a warm pattern so downside - especially from some of the more bullish snow graphics of a few days ago - was pretty much inevitable. 

The possible good news? A net gainer of extra dense snow. And any non-snow might only fall overnight Saturday, and back to snow Sunday, so it could be snow during the day Saturday/Sunday for your skiing enjoyment. But this is still a close, complex and unresolved situation. Low (and upper level low) tracks a bit further south and things would improve drastically......


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## deadheadskier (Jan 23, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> I’ve also been to the stone church! Used to be buddies with the guys in Raq and joined them for a Burlington/stone church weekend years ago. Cool room.


I was likely there. Saw Raq at the Church many times.  The Zappa night is particularly memorable.   Miss that band. 

They should do some reunion shows at the Black Line Tavern.  Turned up extra loud just for Benedict Gomez 

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## tumbler (Jan 23, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> I was likely there. Saw Raq at the Church many times.  The Zappa night is particularly memorable.   Miss that band.
> 
> They should do some reunion shows at the Black Line Tavern.  Turned up extra loud just for Benedict Gomez
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Has BG even skied this year?  Or too busy working on his wood?


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## MMP (Jan 23, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> WTF happened here?  Weather went to shit.  Thread REALLY went to shit.
> 
> I'll be gathering myself for a moment tryin to figure a corrective action.



It was me. I played YEM. I played Tahoe Tweezer, I played Fluffhead....

People my age do not take the drugs required to fine tune the DB's to our ears. At the lone DB show i attended, a guy proclaimed to my wife that " I loves me some cougar" 

Raq? STOOOOOOOOOOPS

I'll be in the Mad River Valley this weekend if Kusty ends up there, reach out for sure.

I know you aint going nowhere. (ooooh eeeeee ride me high, tomorrows the day my brides gonna come)


Lastly, the music talk is what makes magic cool. If you like mandolins and acoustic guitars and Jerry and have at any point dabbled in psychedelics, you'll probably fit in. Some of you douches mileage may vary.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2020)

MMP said:


> Raq? STOOOOOOOOOOPS



Wears kids clothing for a reason. Guy is a POS who plays sloppy AF. How do I know? I'll leave it there but let's stop idolizing these douchebags and get back to Magic Mountain.


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## urungus (Jan 23, 2020)

From today’s Alpine Update:

On the Quad lift front, our lift contractor has finally been back in touch again with us and is putting together a plan for completion after being AWOL. The good news is that our two chairlifts handled the flow of crowds very well on a busy MLK Sunday. So the focus now is simply getting the lift contractor back to work and making steady progress toward completion.


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## MMP (Jan 23, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Wears kids clothing for a reason. Guy is a POS who plays sloppy AF. How do I know? I'll leave it there but let's stop idolizing these douchebags and get back to Magic Mountain.



Yah let’s.  Fuck off. 


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## sull1102 (Jan 23, 2020)

I like how Magic says the lift contractor went AWOL but you guys are busy talking jam band...


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## NYDB (Jan 23, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> I like how Magic says the lift contractor went AWOL but you guys are busy talking jam band...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



But now he is back!  With a plan!


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 23, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> I like how *Magic says the lift contractor went AWOL *but you guys are busy talking jam band...



Maybe the lift contractor's spent the last month backpacking through Europe following some third-rate, niche, cannabis band.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 23, 2020)

MMP said:


> It was me. I played YEM. I played Tahoe Tweezer, I played Fluffhead....
> 
> People my age do not take the drugs required to fine tune the DB's to our ears. At the lone DB show i attended, a guy proclaimed to my wife that " I loves me some cougar"
> 
> ...



i just cancelled my manchester hotel and expedia and the hotel were cool and issued me a refund even tho it was a nonrefundable reservation. i was gonna book something in cheap in montpelier but i dont even think this weekend is salvaged up at mad/sugarbush. the green marches north with every model run. the entire damn state is green in the saturday overnight. i dont think the snow will be worth my time and money, and freezing rain lift icing seems inevitable. what a shitty shit. 

for now the plan is a day trip to stratton on saturday. they're basically 100% open and i'm hoping the higher elevation woods are skiable.

and lol re: "drugs required to fine tune" for the biscuits. they are an acquired taste. a paradox. the worst singers in the entire world, playing some of the worst songs ever written (at least lyrically), but they take the improv further out than anyone else. getting heavy into tdb during the phish hiatus from 04-09 is basically what ruined phish for me. my new expectation was that a set should have 3-6 songs max, everything must be fully and seemlessly segued, and songs are split up/unfinished/played backwards, etc. when phish came back and was putting out 15 song sets of 6 minute long dad rockers, i was done.


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## MG Skier (Jan 24, 2020)

Yeah, what looked like a great Sunday has evaporated.......I still may ski. I haven't been out in a bit, damn responsibilities.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 24, 2020)

you never know unless you go.  I'll be there both days.


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## MG Skier (Jan 24, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> you never know unless you go.  I'll be there both days.



You are so correct!


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 24, 2020)

just received some sweet new art I ordered of my two faves


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 26, 2020)

Mountain skied great yesterday. Sleeve in particular. 

Theres a a net gain of something out there.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 26, 2020)

People are really taking the lack of the new lift a bit too far.



> *N.Y. man charged with DUI after driving up Magic Mtn. slope*



https://www.chestertelegraph.org/20...g25Dih1hwUUyh3425-fw5b4u1lsYH_SCbvB9sHgPYmAt4


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## cdskier (Jan 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> People are really taking the lack of the new lift a bit too far.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chestertelegraph.org/20...g25Dih1hwUUyh3425-fw5b4u1lsYH_SCbvB9sHgPYmAt4



Maybe they need to amend their uphill policy to specifically say no driving uphill!


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 27, 2020)

“He got a couple of hundred feet up the terrain park and turned around”

I would have liked to see how far he could get up Red Line. Did this began as snow donuts or as a hill climb attempt?


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 27, 2020)

Like folks skinning he should have chosen a side trail.

That something that fell from he sky made or some fun skiing again.  Firm but very edgeable.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 27, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Maybe they need to amend their uphill policy to specifically say no driving uphill!



Yes, was going to say some drama at Magic.  

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020...qNJNWlnQMXnkP6QGCExUPspgCGjrzi1BIO9m6BfDkjw9w


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## MG Skier (Jan 27, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Mountain skied great yesterday. Sleeve in particular.
> 
> Theres a a net gain of something out there.



Yes it did, my edges were a bit worn so I switched to my rock skis and hit up Verigo....a bit chunky but it worked for me! Looking forward to next weekend, lets hope storm cooperates!


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 28, 2020)

Not only was the skiing far better than expected but I walked in to "Soulshine".  Let me just say this is the proper lodge bootin' up feel good song.  7 min.  Uplifting, etc.  Hopefully it continues down that path this weekend.  

Anyone skiing Monday for the freebie?


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## Smellytele (Jan 28, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Not only was the skiing far better than expected but I walked in to "Soulshine".  Let me just say this is the proper lodge bootin' up feel good song.  7 min.  Uplifting, etc.  Hopefully it continues down that path this weekend.
> 
> Anyone skiing Monday for the freebie?



Gov’t Mule or Allman  brothers’ version?


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 28, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Not only was the skiing far better than expected but I walked in to "Soulshine".  Let me just say this is the proper lodge bootin' up feel good song.  7 min.  Uplifting, etc.  Hopefully it continues down that path this weekend.
> 
> Anyone skiing Monday for the freebie?



cant make it monday, but magic is on my sunday shortlist again this week. third tries a charm right? will hit you up if that ends up being our move. will be with gf.


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## reefer (Jan 28, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Anyone skiing Monday for the freebie?



I plan on it.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 28, 2020)

The Allmans Smelly.  

Sounds good Kusty.  Keep me posted. I'm not 100% on Monday.  If it seems worth it, I'm considering it.  Always looks like a fun time.


Edit:  Nice Reefer!


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## NYDB (Jan 28, 2020)

Any chance (assuming no natural snow ) that lower Wizard is open this weekend?


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## slatham (Jan 28, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> Any chance (assuming no natural snow ) that lower Wizard is open this weekend?



From what I understand they need hours-wise at snowmaking temps, and based on the forecast, they "should" have the Wiz-Tali-Wiz run done. Snow report indicates that is plan too.

Whether they can pull off opening Sorcerer or middle Wiz on natural (with lead-in and run-out covered in man made) is a good question.

JM/DW?


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## NYDB (Jan 28, 2020)

slatham said:


> From what I understand they need hours-wise at snowmaking temps, and based on the forecast, they "should" have the Wiz-Tali-Wiz run done. Snow report indicates that is plan too.
> 
> Whether they can pull off opening Sorcerer or middle Wiz on natural (with lead-in and run-out covered in man made) is a good question.
> 
> JM/DW?



yeah, I'm talkin' bout any chance of wiz TTB.


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## JamaicaMan (Jan 28, 2020)

slatham said:


> From what I understand they need hours-wise at snowmaking temps, and based on the forecast, they "should" have the Wiz-Tali-Wiz run done. Snow report indicates that is plan too.
> 
> Whether they can pull off opening Sorcerer or middle Wiz on natural (with lead-in and run-out covered in man made) is a good question.
> 
> JM/DW?



Upper Talisman takes days to blow in as also used for race course. Wizard to Talisman is what we are shooting for this weekend as need to finish upper Wiz starting tonight 


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## louisemann (Jan 29, 2020)

Heading there for free No Boundaries Monday. Cannot wait. Any tips on parking, what not to miss and overall mt. vibe? Green and red lifts open.


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## Smellytele (Jan 29, 2020)

If I can move some work around I might be able to hit Magic Monday morning until noon then head to Brattleboro for some afternoon work. Not sure yet...


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 29, 2020)

louisemann said:


> Heading there for free No Boundaries Monday. Cannot wait. Any tips on parking, what not to miss and overall mt. vibe? Green and red lifts open.



Get there early for best parking, but it's easy to figure out. Overall vibe is laid back, old school & fun. You'll easily be able to ski all the open available terrain in a day, just point them in a direction and have fun.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 31, 2020)

So stoked for the weekend.  Hope to see some of you there.


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## MG Skier (Jan 31, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> So stoked for the weekend.  Hope to see some of you there.



I will be there Saturday. Looking forward to some whale watching/riding......


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## NYDB (Jan 31, 2020)

Will be there sat and sun with the kiddos.  Stoked to hit the Tali whales but also interested to find out how the east side naturals are skiing/riding .


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## Smellytele (Jan 31, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> If I can move some work around I might be able to hit Magic Monday morning until noon then head to Brattleboro for some afternoon work. Not sure yet...



As long as nothing else pops up I should be good for Monday so leave some for me


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## sull1102 (Jan 31, 2020)

Just read the Alpine Update, seems the last hope of the quad chair installed this season has left the building. 


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 31, 2020)

Whoever picked the 1st Monday of the month as "free ski day", obviously doesn't work in Accounting or Finance.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 31, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Just read the Alpine Update, seems *the last hope of the quad chair installed this season has left the building. *



Who was the guy that kept posting & was betting it all on Magic being wrong & that that chair would not open this season?  

Show up at the window & collect your money.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 1, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> Will be there sat and sun with the kiddos.  Stoked to hit the Tali whales but also interested to find out how the east side naturals are skiing/riding .



Really nice today. Talisman was wonderful. Not whales but big moguls. I love that sort of 3D skiing. Not 100 percent coverage, as warned and marked but a great line down. I thanked Matt (Do Work) as he took a turn spelling Dave on the Red Chair late in the day. Clearly his crew worked their butts off in the window of cold available. That was a lot of snow to lay down. This is not your old Magic. Even the Chute on Wizard was fun for once. And it was clear that the coverage on Wizard was built to last. Its just that sort of year so far. Also the whole place was operating so smoothly with a very decent crowd and lots of day tickets (cash) evident.


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## NYDB (Feb 2, 2020)

Yeah I never made it up (oldest didn't want to go), but my wife and youngest were there and had a great day.  She said it was pretty busy too, which is good to hear.  

She also said the east side naturals were pretty good and skied great yesterday.


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## NYDB (Feb 2, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Who was the guy that kept posting & was betting it all on Magic being wrong & that that chair would not open this season?
> 
> Show up at the window & collect your money.



It was pretty obvious from xmas on that wasn't happening this year.  Not that they couldn't have gotten it complete, but my family has been there a bunch of times this year and no one has seen a single person working on it anywhere.  You would think if there was a winter to get a lift put in this would be it, due to the lack of snow and warm temps, but the contractor had other plans I guess.  

at the end of the day, not much of a big deal.  There are only 2 days remaining this year that they might need it from a lift capacity standpoint.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 2, 2020)

Great day yesterday! Can’t say enough about what Magic provided. Great snow just about everywhere including Talisman.  

Squallz just showed up. Let hope they stick around.


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## legalskier (Feb 2, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> People are really taking the lack of the new lift a bit too far.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.chestertelegraph.org/20...g25Dih1hwUUyh3425-fw5b4u1lsYH_SCbvB9sHgPYmAt4



It was just the lift contractor returning with the new plans. No worries.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 3, 2020)

Damn stuff did pop up and I couldn't get there today. Anyone else make it for the free day?


----------



## slatham (Feb 3, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> Really nice today. Talisman was wonderful. Not whales but big moguls. I love that sort of 3D skiing. Not 100 percent coverage, as warned and marked but a great line down. I thanked Matt (Do Work) as he took a turn spelling Dave on the Red Chair late in the day. Clearly his crew worked their butts off in the window of cold available. That was a lot of snow to lay down. This is not your old Magic. Even the Chute on Wizard was fun for once. And it was clear that the coverage on Wizard was built to last. Its just that sort of year so far. Also the whole place was operating so smoothly with a very decent crowd and lots of day tickets (cash) evident.



Was there too and concur 100%, even thanked DW as well. They are making sweeeeet lemonade out of a lemon of a winter. Lets hope the turn toward a snowy February is here.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 3, 2020)

Have a couple Magic passes that aren't blacked out for the February vacation... was just seeing what I had for that blackout period... excellent


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## louisemann (Feb 3, 2020)

My bf and I made it to the No Boundaries Free Day. Thanks to Magic and No Boundaries. A great day. I am an intermediate snowboarder and a little PTSD from some big falls over the past 7 years. My bf is an expert boarder and skier. He skied this day. We arrived at 8 and scored a nice parking spot up front.  No crowds from 9-12:30. No lift lines. We stayed on the east side and loved all the blues we tried. Some were too bare so we passed. He went on the west side w/o me and said it was icy and not nice.   Conditions were A OK but they could use a good snowstorm.  

We like old school and smaller mountains such as Wildcat, Crotched and Shawnee to name three. The slow lift lines at Magic were a bit of  a drag but the charm and views made it worth it. 

The folks at Magic make it great. What a fun day!!


----------



## bheemsoth (Feb 4, 2020)

Thinking of heading up Friday depending on what the accumulation on Thursday looks like. Hopefully more snow and less ice/rain.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 4, 2020)

bheemsoth said:


> Thinking of heading up Friday depending on what the accumulation on Thursday looks like. Hopefully more snow and less ice/rain.



Don't count on it.  Magic gets screwed-over hard given it's southeast location and low elevation.  Good for southern storms that have a easterly track, not for marginal cutters like this setup it.

Go West.  Whiteface is probably the best bet for decent skiing this weekend.  Maybe not the most snow on Friday but certainly the least amount of mix Thursday.


Personally I'm sitting this one out.  My ski days would've been Thursday/Friday.  The best case scenario for those days still has a period of ice/rain.  Good base-building stuff.  Friday night it'll all get coated with a few inches of snow if you're North enough and skiing will be decent.


----------



## reefer (Feb 4, 2020)

*Magical*

I attended. Was worth every penny. Great Day! Magic shined!​




[url]https://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/142399-Magic-Mountain-2-3-20-FREE![/URL]


----------



## hughconway (Feb 4, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Who was the guy that kept posting & was betting it all on Magic being wrong & that that chair would not open this season?
> 
> Show up at the window & collect your money.



While it has been obvious since early October that there was a 0.0% chance of the quad getting installed & inspected this season, I really wish I had been wrong since this looks so bad for Magic.  Again.

It's a great hill with an amazingly dedicated following, and I would like nothing more than to see 'Tragic' succeed.  The problem is that the die hard followers are almost all drinking the kool aid and unable to accept Magic's faults.  The new management team really seems to be pushing forward and getting traction, but the looong list broken promises tends to drive people away at about the same rate (or faster?) they pickup new customers with the laid back vibe & challenging terrain.  I've spoken to quite a few people this winter who had purchased white out passes and other multi day passes based on the promise of the new quad and an expanded snow making pond to help cover the slopes in a marginal winter like we are experiencing.  Most of these people will likely head elsewhere next winter, and it will be a lot more difficult to lure these scorned skiers back to Magic than it was to get them there in the first place.


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## reefer (Feb 4, 2020)

I couldn't let Debbie Downer have the latest post. Again, I attended  the No Boundaries day and Magic shined. We all have opinions but IMO there is no doubt to the commitment toward magic right now from ownership. We should be thanking them Magic even exist, never mind all the tremendous improvements the last couple years.
Another cup please - black raspberry.


https://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/142399-Magic-Mountain-2-3-20-FREE


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## urungus (Feb 4, 2020)

hughconway said:


> While it has been obvious since early October that there was a 0.0% chance of the quad getting installed & inspected this season, I really wish I had been wrong since this looks so bad for Magic.  Again.
> 
> It's a great hill with an amazingly dedicated following, and I would like nothing more than to see 'Tragic' succeed.  The problem is that the die hard followers are almost all drinking the kool aid and unable to accept Magic's faults.  The new management team really seems to be pushing forward and getting traction, but the looong list broken promises tends to drive people away at about the same rate (or faster?) they pickup new customers with the laid back vibe & challenging terrain.  I've spoken to quite a few people this winter who had purchased white out passes and other multi day passes based on the promise of the new quad and an expanded snow making pond to help cover the slopes in a marginal winter like we are experiencing.  Most of these people will likely head elsewhere next winter, and it will be a lot more difficult to lure these scorned skiers back to Magic than it was to get them there in the first place.



The red chair covers the exact same terrain as the black, runs reliably, is ski-on 95% of the time, and has a zillion times more charm than some Flatton retread.  I don’t understand what the big deal is.  Is the new black quad going to run faster or something ?


----------



## hughconway (Feb 4, 2020)

urungus said:


> The red chair covers the exact same terrain as the black, runs reliably, is ski-on 95% of the time, and has a zillion times more charm than some Flatton retread.  I don’t understand what the big deal is.  Is the new black quad going to run faster or something ?



An interesting kool aid induced defensive position, but if that were reality why would a cash strapped small business be spending $1-2 million purchasing & installing what you are calling an unnecessary and redundant lift?

(Hint:  Another summit chair increases uphill capacity and overall reliability.  I tried going to Magic on NYE 6-7 years ago, and the red chair was broken so there was no skiing.  Also, iirc the rope on the red chair is at or very near the end of it's life and needs to be replaced.)


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 4, 2020)

95% of people who go to Magic don't care what they're riding up. Most days Magic is ski-on or close, powder days you might wait a few minutes to get on Red. I haven't even been up there since they opened the Green Chair.

Having the quad is a good idea for the future and reduncancy but I echo Urungus sentiment. I'm guessing all these complainers HughConway mentioned are the type to spend money, then sit home and bitch about things out of everyone's control rather than going skiing.

Angry at the low snowfall? >>> complain about Magic not having "extra" lifts instead. Makes sense.


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## MG Skier (Feb 4, 2020)

Yes, Magic needs a snow storm or two.  They don't need the quad, would it be nice,.....sure but not necessary but it would be better for business I'm sure. Lift construction is what it is, there are delays, set backs and even unknowns! 

I have to say the difference in product quality between Sunday January 26th and February 1st was astonishing! Sunday was very very firm on the groomers....Saturday was much better and there was snow to push around/off of. Considering they had to wait for temperatures (the wet bulb is a pain in the @$$) Magic put out an excellent product last weekend! Talisman is what it is early season...adventurous, but fun. 

The natural trails were hanging in there too, dawn the rock skis avoid obstacles and ski it! I had a blast!

Keep it up Magic, it will all fall into place!


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## icecoast1 (Feb 4, 2020)

hughconway said:


> An interesting kool aid induced defensive position, but if that were reality why would a cash strapped small business be spending $1-2 million purchasing & installing what you are calling an unnecessary and redundant lift?
> 
> (Hint:  Another summit chair increases uphill capacity and overall reliability.  I tried going to Magic on NYE 6-7 years ago, and the red chair was broken so there was no skiing.  Also, iirc the rope on the red chair is at or very near the end of it's life and needs to be replaced.)




So buy an epic pass or an Ikon pass.  They have plenty of fancy lifts at their mountains.  Maybe you and FBGM can ski together....


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## slatham (Feb 4, 2020)

ss20 said:


> Don't count on it.  Magic gets screwed-over hard given it's southeast location and low elevation.  Good for southern storms that have a easterly track, not for marginal cutters like this setup it.
> 
> Go West.  Whiteface is probably the best bet for decent skiing this weekend.  Maybe not the most snow on Friday but certainly the least amount of mix Thursday.
> 
> ...



Models have been trending better. Too early to conclude anything, especially about the seconds storm Thur night into Friday. But a back side thump is a valid scenario.


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## bheemsoth (Feb 4, 2020)

slatham said:


> Models have been trending better. Too early to conclude anything, especially about the seconds storm Thur night into Friday. But a back side thump is a valid scenario.



I'm going to keep watching and make a decision on Thursday. Day trip from CT is really my only option, so Whiteface is certainly out. It doesn't seem like anything else in Vermont will fare appreciably better south of maybe Killington. If the weather doesn't work out I just won't take the day off and will wait for another opportunity.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 5, 2020)

Does 6-8" of wet snow at Magic by friday (seems like the best case scenario) open anything up?  Or are the goods still thread bare?


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## slatham (Feb 5, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> Does 6-8" of wet snow at Magic by friday (seems like the best case scenario) open anything up?  Or are the goods still thread bare?



Yes, especially given the dense nature of the "snow", which will be snow, sleet, freezing rain, then back to snow. Though given snowfall on Friday/Friday night odds are higher for ropes to drop Saturday. Personally I think they will be able to open everything except Pitch Black, Black Magic, Magician, Green Line, Red Line, Goniff. If we get an outperformer some of those could be open too, rock skis required. IMHO


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## NYDB (Feb 6, 2020)

Magic's got 3'' already on the webcam at 6:30am.  looks to snow for another couple of hours at least


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## Do Work (Feb 6, 2020)

hughconway said:


> The problem is that the die hard followers are almost all drinking the kool aid and unable to accept Magic's faults.





Lol actually here in real life all the die hard followers have completely accepted them.   

Nice to see you're still such a pleasurable person though, Hugh.  Never change, buddy- and do let us know when we've finally earned the privilege of your patronage again, it would be a blast to meet you in real life.  




To anyone who is not thrown into an existential meltdown over a lift that wouldn't even be necessary to run today, there was about 6" of dry but dense surfy fluff down when we opened this morning and ropes are dropping fast.  Word on teh streetz is that the low angle trees are skiing really well.  Should ski in really nicely even with a wintery mix working its way in at some point.    

Ops also made a bunch more whales on Talisman last night, so enjoy 'em folks, hope to ski yous this weekend!  :beer:


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## slatham (Feb 6, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Lol actually here in real life all the die hard followers have completely accepted them.
> 
> Nice to see you're still such a pleasurable person though, Hugh.  Never change, buddy- and do let us know when we've finally earned the privilege of your patronage again, it would be a blast to meet you in real life.
> 
> ...



Sweetness. Lets hope tomorrow's change back to snow delivers a nice shot of pow for the weekend and the cold this weekend allows you to move to middle Wiz.

Keep up the good work, Do Work.


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## MMP (Feb 7, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Lol actually here in real life all the die hard followers have completely accepted them..... :beer:



We talk tons of shit,  just to each other in private. No one is harder on magic (Behind their backs ) than the regulars.  




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## NYDB (Feb 8, 2020)

Gotta embrace the crust


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## bheemsoth (Feb 9, 2020)

Anyone with a conditions report from today?


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## hughconway (Feb 10, 2020)

bheemsoth said:


> Anyone with a conditions report from today?



I spoke to a friend this morning who was there yesterday and he said the conditions were excellent all over the mountain, but said Talisman really stood out and was fantastic.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 10, 2020)

Nice pics dirtbag.  Super fun weekend.  Magic technical skiing @ it's finest.  

Talisman was indeed incredible.  Yesterday the bumps were perfect.  Soft lines everywhere.


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## Islander (Feb 10, 2020)

The band Saturday night was fantastic!


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## urungus (Feb 13, 2020)

Is there going to be a “Spring Fling” this year ?  The flamingo toss is my favorite event of the season but I don’t see it on the calendar https://magicmtn.com/calendar/


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## The Sneak (Feb 14, 2020)

Thinking about taking my dad to Magic on Monday. He’s pushing 70, skis blue groomers. How are conditions on the East side?


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## bheemsoth (Feb 14, 2020)

East side conditions were very nice yesterday (02/13). Keep an eye on the impact of the traffic this weekend as well as the deep freeze though.


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 15, 2020)

urungus said:


> Is there going to be a “Spring Fling” this year ?  The flamingo toss is my favorite event of the season but I don’t see it on the calendar https://magicmtn.com/calendar/



Yes March 28. Now on the calendar 


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## urungus (Feb 15, 2020)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yes March 28. Now on the calendar &#55358;&#56745;



Awesome !!


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## Icecoastmatt (Feb 17, 2020)

Do they actually cut passes for not putting the bar down?

19-20: 21 days


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 17, 2020)

Icecoastmatt said:


> Do they actually cut passes for not putting the bar down?



Yeah but easy enough to bribe with a shot of Dr. McGillicuddy's


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## JamaicaMan (Feb 17, 2020)

Icecoastmatt said:


> Do they actually cut passes for not putting the bar down?
> 
> 19-20: 21 days



No “they” don’t. But it’s a state law and, ya know, not falling out of a lift on a short stop is having a good day.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 18, 2020)

I think they should make you wear a dunce cap on your next ride up.  Encourage people to throw snowballs @ the offenders.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 18, 2020)

They don't have no stinkin' bars at Loveland, even on a new lift built this decade. Some towers there are really high. An article calls them "comfort bars".  Sounds like PR and lobbyists at work.

This is not the only case where bars would have saved injuries. https://apnews.com/5b66306fd4aa064fb2f427a9379b7fec

I cannot understand the no bar thing, yet I ski there when I need a quick hit near Denver. 



JamaicaMan said:


> No “they” don’t. But it’s a state law and, ya know, not falling out of a lift on a short stop is having a good day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 18, 2020)

My girlfriend’s best friend, along with best friends brother and sister in law, and two dogs, wanted to plan a VT trip. Bro and sis in law have epic passes, we have ikon passes, and at my suggestion magic has been decided as convenient and neutral ground (bahahaha I have a 4 pack &#55357;&#56840. Anyway, inducting a bunch of beginners and intermediates to magic weekend of 3/21. They rented a house “a mile from magic” so I assume we’re on the access road. Fingers crossed for a snowy march.


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## rocks860 (Feb 25, 2020)

Anyone know how the mountain fared after the weekend and yesterday? Was hoping to get up there on Saturday. Thanks


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 25, 2020)

Witch to Black was so sick this weekend.  My update.


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## MMP (Feb 25, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Witch to Black was so sick this weekend.  My update.



cant really remember it skiing that well on a non-pow day. It was peeling by 2pm. A different look with the new tower locations, but that's Black.


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## MMP (Feb 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> My girlfriend’s best friend, along with best friends brother and sister in law, and two dogs, wanted to plan a VT trip. Bro and sis in law have epic passes, we have ikon passes, and at my suggestion magic has been decided as convenient and neutral ground (bahahaha I have a 4 pack &#55357;&#56840. Anyway, inducting a bunch of beginners and intermediates to magic weekend of 3/21. They rented a house “a mile from magic” so I assume we’re on the access road. Fingers crossed for a snowy march.



The access road isnt a mile long, but you could be on the circle, or around the corner. I am optimistic that we'll get some storms and an extended season, but by late March it isn't unheard of to need the Ikon or Epic if you ski Magic while it's open. Let's remain optimistic for now.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 25, 2020)

That skiers right side with the Supermoguls (TM) ruled.

Edit:  (TM)


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## MMP (Feb 25, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> That skiers right side with the Supermoguls (TM) ruled.
> 
> Edit:  (TM)



Ridiculously fun skiing. 

Met a few people who were new visitors and loved the place.  

Any truth to the rumor the AC/DC band was replaced with a Monkees tribute in memory of Peter Tork?


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 25, 2020)

MMP said:


> The access road isnt a mile long, but you could be on the circle, or around the corner. I am optimistic that we'll get some storms and an extended season, but by late March it isn't unheard of to need the Ikon or Epic if you ski Magic while it's open. Let's remain optimistic for now.



yep, optimism for now, but i'm not touching my remaining stratton days in early-mid march. hope to see you guys that weekend.

road to ruin!?! mass-start downhill!?! i think i'm in, but won't register/pay til i'm sure we'll be there. magic is the absolute coolest. what other ski area would host such a dangerously awesome thing? none.


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## rocks860 (Feb 27, 2020)

Well just bought my ticket for Saturday. Anyone else going to be there?


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## NYDB (Feb 28, 2020)

Looks like the 'snow' set up wicked hahd eh?  

any chance for naturals this weekend?


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## rocks860 (Feb 28, 2020)

They updated the snow report at 430 saying 100% open tomorrow but who knows how the snow on the natural trails will be. I’ll be there regardless


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## NYDB (Feb 28, 2020)

[emoji106] well if I'm not going to be chasing powder, a 100% open magic with the family will work just fine.  





rocks860 said:


> They updated the snow report at 430 saying 100% open tomorrow but who knows how the snow on the natural trails will be. I’ll be there regardless
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 29, 2020)

Looks like a snow squall up there right now

Look forward to read a report -- hoping to get up there tomorrow


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## rocks860 (Feb 29, 2020)

Skied from around 9 until now. Groomed stuff was decent, some of it pretty nice. As far as ungroomed really only skied twilight zone, sorcerer and slide of hans. Slide was pretty nice all things considered and twilight zone wasn’t too bad, just very firm but sorcerer was rough. I rode up with someone who said the Woods were skiing nice but I didn’t have the confidence in my abilities to find out. I went into white tiger briefly and was concerned I was going to catch a ski on the crunch stuff in there so I hopped out. Still a lot of fun


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## rocks860 (Feb 29, 2020)

Oh another guy said magician was skiing great but I value my life too much to try it out. I did watch him just hurl himself into it so I can verify he knew from experience


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 29, 2020)

thanks Rocks! Sounds good enough to me


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## NYDB (Feb 29, 2020)

Upper 700' or so vert naturals were good today.  Lower half naturals were not so good but skiable.  Groomers were good until late into the day in the usual spots.   

ROTD was pitch black to black line.  Witch had good snow also.  Great coverage overall for Magic.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 1, 2020)

just got back... did a good 5 hrs and was burnt.. lots of bumps and jump turns on the chalky snow steeps and trees.

The woods are on the thin side (I don't think too many people were skiing woods today) but a grippy controllable surface. I give them credit for keeping some of them open as it was surely borderline in places.

But overall one of the most fun ski days I've had this year.

Goniff had lots of snow and great mogul formation. Grippy for the most part.





Next pics are White Tiger... first time I skied that, I was surprised how steep and tight it was. There were a couple spots I had to really think about my line (or next turn really). Kind of like Voodoo or bottom of Wardrobe. (Voodoo skied great I think I was one of the only ppl to ski it, Wardrobe I skipped thinking I'll be nice to my skis). Anyway, White Tiger is sweet I look forward to skiing it on a powder day.




Last pic Magician, skied very well



Could have took pics of other nice runs like Talisman first thing in the morning (groomed) or Voodoo which was prob the best tree run. Oh well!

No complaints only smiles


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## NYDB (Mar 1, 2020)

Much firmer today than yesterday on the naturals.  

Great magic weekend with the family


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## sull1102 (Mar 4, 2020)

Read the Alpine Update, officially moved the Black Quad to next season. I know it’s a special situation at Magic and they don’t NEED the new lift cause Red is just so damn good and reliable, but I would be absolutely pissed if I was a season pass holder. I don’t mean the pass holders with condos in the immediate area that are 150% Magic diehards. I’m thinking more about the first year pssholder that maybe came from another mountain. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

this again? who gives a shit about a totally non essential lift being delayed.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

Red Chair was mostly ski-on last Sunday. A couple times there was a 1-2 minute line. I bet a grand total of zero people showed up to Magic this season and were actually pissed off they rode chairs painted red instead of painted black.



KustyTheKlown said:


> this again? who gives a shit about a totally non essential lift being delayed.



I wouldn't mind if the black chair ends up going just a *little* faster than red chair


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## MG Skier (Mar 4, 2020)

So, I am that first year full season pass holder. I have skied Magic 8 or so times this year. I have never waited more than 10 minutes other than opening day. (I ski mostly Sundays due to schedule or vacation periods.) Would the Quad have been nice, yes. Faster, most likely. Necessary...only on the most INSANE of days. With the Green chair in play as I have said before, it works! Hoping to actually get there this Sunday! I need to get my pass to days skied at Magic ratio down a little further!


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 4, 2020)

Sully makes a habit of embarrassing Magic posts.  This is no different.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

Trying to figure out if Friday, Saturday or Sunday will be the "pick of the weekend" @ Magic

I'm not betting on a late season


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## NYDB (Mar 4, 2020)

I'd pick Sunday. with the afternoon warmth, whatever naturals are still open should loosen up by then and Sunshine Corner should be party time.  Show up late and stay late.  Spring Skiing Style.  should be a bump line or 2.  It should be a great day.  Wish I was closer to day trip it.


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## prsboogie (Mar 4, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Read the Alpine Update, officially moved the Black Quad to next season. I know it’s a special situation at Magic and they don’t NEED the new lift cause Red is just so damn good and reliable, but I would be absolutely pissed if I was a season pass holder. I don’t mean the pass holders with condos in the immediate area that are 150% Magic diehards. I’m thinking more about the first year pssholder that maybe came from another mountain.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Why exactly would that be? Because they busted their asses to get something done and ran into problems that were completely out of their control and as you stated have no bearing whatsoever on their day to day operations? Or because they were completely upfront and verbal about every step of the project and the delays as they occured?

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## Killingtime (Mar 4, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Red Chair was mostly ski-on last Sunday. A couple times there was a 1-2 minute line. I bet a grand total of zero people showed up to Magic this season and were actually pissed off they rode chairs painted red instead of painted black.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind if the black chair ends up going just a *little* faster than red chair



The red chair line on Saturday was 4-5 minutes tops in the morning. After 12:00 it was down to under a minute with an occasional ski-on. Green chair line was non-existent. On cold, windy days it would be nice to get to the top faster though. Looking forward to the black chair some day but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

I would be pissed because it was offered as a season pass benefit. When something is advertised as part of a season pass that isn’t exactly cheap, I would expect to give it. It’s not necessarily about the lift being there, but it’s about it being promised for this year. Magic has had a history of postponing lift projects and this is a good example of it. 


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## Vaughn (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I would be pissed because it was offered as a season pass benefit. When something is advertised as part of a season pass that isn’t exactly cheap, I would expect to give it. It’s not necessarily about the lift being there, but it’s about it being promised for this year. Magic has had a history of postponing lift projects and this is a good example of it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you think Magic is lying about their lift contractor problems, just say it. This mealy mouthed 'history of postponing lift projects' is pathetic. They say it was a contractor problem - if you know otherwise, type it down and explain how you know they're lying about what happened on this specific project.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

you act very entitled about lifts. especially for someone who doesnt even pay for their own pass.

platty just posted a surprise 1-3", and it looks like all snow for them thru sat AM. i think thats my move this weekend.


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## NYDB (Mar 4, 2020)

My entire family have been seasons passholders for the last 3 years.  Even used a seasonal program there for the past 2 seasons.  There is really no comparison to how it has been the past 3 years and how it was operated previously when I used to come sans family for the occasional powder day opening   

Things are moving in the right direction with occasional setbacks.  By the opening of next season they will have completed 2 new to them lift installs, plus lodge improvements, snowmaking improvements, etc.  Really amazing and as someone who works with financials for small companies, a lot to bite off for such a small entity.  

Still no urinal dividers, but I hear they are still in the 5 year capital plan.

It seems the new management gets blame for the old owners/operators a lot, like Slidebrooks post above.   I can't understand that based on what I have seen the past 3 + years.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I would be pissed because it was offered as a season pass benefit. Magic has had a history of postponing lift projects and this is a good example of it.



you realize it's new owners up there, right? Maybe we can blame them for the mountain closing in '91 too?

I also didn't know the plan was to only let season pass holders ride the Black lift this season.

People getting pissed over stuff like this beyond anyone's control = :dunce:


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## prsboogie (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I would be pissed because it was offered as a season pass benefit. When something is advertised as part of a season pass that isn’t exactly cheap, I would expect to give it. It’s not necessarily about the lift being there, but it’s about it being promised for this year. Magic has had a history of postponing lift projects and this is a good example of it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually they did not postpone anything. Their contractor is the reason it's not completed. Why don't you ask Do Work or Jamacaman how they feel about the lift not being completed?

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## Newpylong (Mar 4, 2020)

This again?

Having a second functioning summit lift was not a prerequisite for purchasing a season pass. Nothing was "promised". I am sure Geoff and his crew will address directly any concerns with pass holders who personally have taken issue. My hunch is the number of complaints can be counted on one hand.

As for the "history" of postponing lifts, let me give some background info on that and the lift industry in the Northeast as a whole. The Green Chair which was started, and then aborted under prior ownership, can't be pinned on current Magic. Current Magic's first installer died for christ sake, of course that is going to have an effect on the schedule.  There are literally 4 outfits that do this type of work in the Northeast - Poma, Dopplemeyer, Skytrans, and Pjister Mountain Services. Poma and Dopp aren't really affordable and already have busy schedules. Skytrans is a whole different conversation better left offline. That leaves Tim Pjister. This was not a lift that could just be slapped together. Remember, the components sat out in the elements with zero work done to them for ~15 years. I am honestly amazed it was able to be resurrected. 

Now the Black Chair. Permits were received in January of '19, that doesn't leave much time for an independent installer to clear a new liftline (which is gnarly terrain to get equipment into), complete site work and begin the install. Tim does great work but he is only human. The small guys don't have the vast arsenal of subs at their fingertips that Poma and Dopp have or the leverage to tell people to jump. They also are required to deal with their other customers, they can't just send someone else on the bench. Personnel issues are also felt much more with smaller outfits. You can bet your house Magic is not happy having to take two seasons for the install.  It is easy for folks who have never been involved in a lift install (or another project of this magnitude) to sit there and make statements, but oftentimes the circumstances are far more complex.

Both of these massive lift projects are going to have a profound effect on the value that Magic offers, but I see the majority of the complaining from casual observers/customers.


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 4, 2020)

Sounds pretty awesome for a place that has been dead and on life support for its entire existence to be installing 2 new lifts in 3 years. I hope to check it out some day


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## slatham (Mar 4, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Read the Alpine Update, officially moved the Black Quad to next season. I know it’s a special situation at Magic and they don’t NEED the new lift cause Red is just so damn good and reliable, but I would be absolutely pissed if I was a season pass holder. I don’t mean the pass holders with condos in the immediate area that are 150% Magic diehards. I’m thinking more about the first year pssholder that maybe came from another mountain.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I think it would be highly experience based and personal. Did you buy a pass expecting no lines and got pissed there were 15 minute lines over MLK/Pres? Or did you not experience long lines (by your definition) so it was a non-issue? Then layer on top of that one's empathy (or lack thereof) toward the realities and struggles of a small, independent area trying to improve. I think you'll find a broad spectrum of responses, and certainly not IMHO a ground swell of resentment and purchases of IKON/Epic passes for next season.


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## slatham (Mar 4, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> This again?
> 
> Having a second functioning summit lift was not a prerequisite for purchasing a season pass. Nothing was "promised". I am sure Geoff and his crew will address directly any concerns with pass holders who personally have taken issue. My hunch is the number of complaints can be counted on one hand.
> 
> ...



Good post, but I want to clarify two points . There are only 3 firms that will install old lifts, Pfister being one. Can't recall the others, but Poma and Dopplemeyer will not install an old lift, at least not for a customer who isn't buying new lifts. 

As for clearing the liftline, the contractor/subcontractor was delayed, so Do Work and team went and cleared the line, in a week from what I heard. Above and beyond what other ops teams would do.

Separately, the new Black Lift is absolutely required for the future of Magic. They need more capacity to draw a larger crowd without long lines, redundancy to the summit, and to take the burden off Red and extend its life.


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## Newpylong (Mar 4, 2020)

I got a quote from Dopplemeyer to (re)install our T-Bar. Dopp provides Hall parts and would gladly have done the install, for the right price. 

Besides Skytrans (which I already mentioned), there is Skytrac (owned by Poma) and Randy from Ropeways Construction (but he is downstate NY and tends to handle smaller projects in the Poconocs). So yes, slim pickens.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

where do you work?


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## slatham (Mar 4, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Sounds pretty awesome for a place that has been dead and on life support for its entire existence to be installing 2 new lifts in 3 years. I hope to check it out some day



3 lifts - don't forget the Magic Carpet! And it was installed on time!


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## Newpylong (Mar 4, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> where do you work?



I was the GM at the Whale in a previous life.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

ah cool. you prob know stoops' sister? keyboard player for a schwaggy jamband who i used to be somewhat close with. no animosity just lost touch. i think his sister runs whaleback?


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## Newpylong (Mar 4, 2020)

Yes - Rebecca is the current GM.

Besides me just loving the mountain and what they are doing, Magic was very supportive when we were trying to get on the Freedom Pass a number of years ago and had numerous calls w/JamaicaMan to pick his brain over various items during my time there.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

For me it’s not exactly about the fact that it wasn’t completed as it wasn’t completely under their control. It’s the fact that they promised it as a pass benefit for this season even though they didn’t know for sure if they could finish it for this season. They shouldn’t have pushed it so much if they weren’t certain it was going to be completed. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

get over it, dork. shit happens.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> get over it, dork. shit happens.



First of all, don’t call me a dork, second of all, sure, shit happens, but if they weren’t sure if it would be completed, they shouldn’t have advertised it all over on social media. As many have mentioned, it was a tight timeline, especially for a small mountain like Magic. They should’ve recognized this. If it was completed in time, great! Advertise it all they want, but if they’re not sure, they shouldn’t have acted like they were sure. 


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## Domeskier (Mar 4, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Having a second functioning summit lift was not a prerequisite for purchasing a season pass.



Sure, maybe for you.  But for those of us who ski just to take the next lift ride, it's a major let down.  It's like when the train schedule says a EMD RS1325 is coming by on the 4:10 express but all you get is an FM H12-44TS with retrofitted couplers.  What's the use of train schedules if they can just switch things up like that on a whim? Who will take responsibility?!?!?!


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

sorry, but you're making some dork ass comments.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> First of all, don’t call me a dork, second of all, sure, shit happens, but if they weren’t sure if it would be completed, they shouldn’t have advertised it all over on social media. As many have mentioned, it was a tight timeline, especially for a small mountain like Magic. They should’ve recognized this. If it was completed in time, great! Advertise it all they want, but if they’re not sure, they shouldn’t have acted like they were sure.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The company that was supposed to do the install stopped showing up, how exactly is that Magics fault?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

its not. and i bet he doesnt even ski at magic. if he did he would realize how inconsequential the lift is to the day to day experience at magic. the only time that lift is 'needed' is on the busiest of busy days, that happen rarely.

and what do you expect magic to do from a social media and promotional perspective? not say anything about buying a lift from stratton and flying it across the valley. only announce the new lift when they are 100% sure of the installation timeline? it's absurd, and you sound like a spoiled little brat about it. stay at sugarbush and complain about their lift ops.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 4, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> Sure, maybe for you.  But for those of us who ski just to take the next lift ride, it's a major let down.  It's like when the train schedule says a EMD RS1325 is coming by on the 4:10 express but all you get is an FM H12-44TS with retrofitted couplers.  What's the use of train schedules if they can just switch things up like that on a whim? Who will take responsibility?!?!?!




You're comparing trains to a used fixed grip quad that is not even needed 95 percent of the time and doesnt prevent you from accessing any of magics terrain?


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## rocks860 (Mar 4, 2020)

This slidebrook87 certainly is a know it all pain in the ass huh?


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## icecoast1 (Mar 4, 2020)

rocks860 said:


> This slidebrook87 certainly is a know it all pain in the ass huh?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



With his vast knowledge of the ski industry why hasnt someone hired him as GM yet?


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> its not. and i bet he doesnt even ski at magic. if he did he would realize how inconsequential the lift is to the day to day experience at magic. the only time that lift is 'needed' is on the busiest of busy days, that happen rarely.
> 
> and what do you expect magic to do from a social media and promotional perspective? not say anything about buying a lift from stratton and flying it across the valley. only announce the new lift when they are 100% sure of the installation timeline? it's absurd, and you sound like a spoiled little brat about it. stay at sugarbush and complain about their lift ops.



Where in any of my comments did I say it was crucial to the day to day experience at Magic. I have skied at Magic before by the way. All I’m saying is that if they weren’t sure they could complete it due to the difficult timeline, they shouldn’t have promoted it all over their Instagram. If something is promised, people expect it. To set the bar lower, they shouldn’t have promised it for this season. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

you're wrong, and you're spoiled as shit.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> First of all, don’t call me a dork



I thought you wanted to work in ski lift industry? Not sure if this is the best approach. Like, making a name for yourself being a PITA to ski area owners for problems most mature people happily give them a pass on. Didn't you see previous posts mentioning the shortage of ski lift installers? Wise up and recognize the opportunity. Being a nerd isn't a bad thing.



KustyTheKlown said:


> its not. and i bet he doesnt even ski at magic.



I bet he drives down from Sugarbush to ski Magic all the time. Oh wait, ... driving. Oops.


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## AdironRider (Mar 4, 2020)

While there is no doubt the new ownership group is hands down better than the one before, they are still making some rookie mistakes.

Which makes it a good thing they have a faithful following, because if say Killington made a big stink about a new lift, then dropped the ball because they cheaped out on the sub to install and it got delayed an entire season, they'd get roasted for it, and rightfully so. 

Plenty of other mom and pop shops buy used lifts and get them installed correctly and on time. Pat's Peak and Shawnee come to mind.


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## Domeskier (Mar 4, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> You're comparing trains to a used fixed grip quad that is not even needed 95 percent of the time and doesnt prevent you from accessing any of magics terrain?



We were promised rides on a black chair and a red chair.  All we get is rides on a red chair.  I don't sit out all day at the railroad crossing just to see some everyday workhorse chug through off-schedule, and I sure as heck don't subject myself to the hazards and risks of alpine skiing to ride only half the colored chairs I bargained for.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

I am not spoiled and I am not a nerd. Please stop with this. When they build up so much “hype” around something like this new quad and promise it, they should be able to deliver on it. Clearly due to difficult circumstances they couldn’t. Okay. Why wasn’t an apology email sent out to their pass holders or at least a note. At least Win did something like this when he stopped running GMX midweek. Until recently it was all a mystery and the lift was still expected to open for this year. I actually had a part in the planning of this process back in 2018. It’s a long story, but I’ve been following this whole project for awhile now and care about it. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

thats cute, did you help plan the lift for your 9th grade business class project?

any CHILD who skis as much as you do and still feels the need to COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING, is quite obviously spoiled.

magic owes you nothing.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> Plenty of other mom and pop shops buy used lifts and get them installed correctly and on time.



The guy installing the lift doesn't typically kick the bucket mid-install though.



Domeskier said:


> We were promised rides on a black chair and a red chair.  All we get is rides on a red chair.  I don't sit out all day at the railroad crossing just to see some everyday workhorse chug through off-schedule, and I sure as heck don't subject myself to the hazards and risks of alpine skiing to ride only half the colored chairs I bargained for.



Fail to see why some others here are questioning your wisdom as of late.



Slidebrook87 said:


> I am not spoiled



:lol:


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## NYDB (Mar 4, 2020)

I think they would have been more roasting if there was a need for the lift this year other than 2 days (that I heard/saw).  So I think they lucked out a little in that respect.   (I'm sure they would have much rather had the snow) There could have been 10 more days with a good snow year


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## cdskier (Mar 4, 2020)

I'm quite certain some of the people complaining have 0 experience with actually working on any large scale projects.


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> Why wasn’t an apology email sent out to their pass holders or at least a note.



Because we would have told them how ridiculous an apology is & give them the tremendous gratitude they deserve.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

cdskier said:


> I'm quite certain some of the people complaining have 0 experience with actually working on any large scale projects.



I’ve stated multiple times that there were in fact issues that came up around the timeline. The issue was that Magic both guaranteed that it would operate this season and for a good portion of the season completely stopped progress and left it as a mystery to the public. Any good ownership would explain what had happened and try to make good from it. It’s as simple as that. 


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

^ ok you win the argument


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## AdironRider (Mar 4, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> The guy installing the lift doesn't typically kick the bucket mid-install though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They could have paid for the real pros, but didn't. While unfortunately the contractor died, there are challenges with any major construction project and they left themselves with no alternative. That was the mistake, not just luck like a lot are arguing. 

Now they are going to carry the costs associated with this already used lift, for the better part of two years before a single person rides the thing. Letting a nickel hold up a dollar is bad business no matter who you are. Hopefully they didn't finance the thing because that will have effects elsewhere.


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> thats cute, did you help plan the lift for your 9th grade business class project?
> 
> any CHILD who skis as much as you do and still feels the need to COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING, is quite obviously spoiled.
> 
> magic owes you nothing.



I love how you think it’s a good idea to resort to shaming a person just because of how old they are. How rude. 


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## Domeskier (Mar 4, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Fail to see why some others here are questioning your wisdom as of late.



It's almost like they're not on the same spectrum.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I love how you think it’s a good idea to resort to shaming a person just because of how old they are. How rude.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



your age is relevant to the conversation. it shows how you lack any perspective and how everything in your entire life has been handed to you for free.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 4, 2020)

Would the pros have gotten it done on time though?  Not always

Bretton Gondola took two years to install when it was originally supposed to be just one.  

Did they send out an "I sorry" note to their pass holders? 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## icecoast1 (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I’ve stated multiple times that there were in fact issues that came up around the timeline. The issue was that Magic both guaranteed that it would operate this season and for a good portion of the season completely stopped progress and left it as a mystery to the public. Any good ownership would explain what had happened and try to make good from it. It’s as simple as that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




They've sent multiple emails saying the contractor wasnt showing up, which was the cause of the delay, so you're wrong again


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 4, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> your age is relevant to the conversation. it shows how you lack any perspective and how everything in your entire life has been handed to you for free.



It actually isn’t relavant. In no way does discussing a lift installation relate to age. Saying things like “everything in your entire life has been handed to you for free” is so rude and not true. Just stop with the age. Nobody else cares about age. We were all 14 once. All you’re making me want to do is completely give up something that I am passionate about. 


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

your entitled attitude and lack of perspective is a direct result of you being a child. 

you pay for your season pass? your skis? your lodging in the mountains? your transport and gas to ski?

ya, didnt think so.


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## rocks860 (Mar 4, 2020)

If it’s not age then I guess you’re just a pompous jackass, that’s gonna be rough when you get older


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## drjeff (Mar 4, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> It actually isn’t relavant. In no way does discussing a lift installation relate to age. Saying things like “everything in your entire life has been handed to you for free” is so rude and not true. Just stop with the age. Nobody else cares about age. We were all 14 once. All you’re making me want to do is completely give up something that I am passionate about.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The wise, old Greek philosopher, Socrates, once said "The one thing I know is that I know nothing"

As one gains wisdom through age and life experiences, one often learns that that quote very often ends up being true


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## skiur (Mar 4, 2020)

This thread has gotten very embarrassing.....slidebrook has an excuse for acting like a kid, he is one...what's everyone else's excuse?


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## Smellytele (Mar 4, 2020)

Can someone repost what they actually said before the season? I know they made a big deal when the acquired the lift but I thought they said they hoped to have, not they will have the lift up and running at any given point.


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## Vaughn (Mar 4, 2020)

Thinking of going on Saturday - anyone know how hard the rain hit central VT?


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## Vaughn (Mar 4, 2020)

also should I be asking for the apology in writing or just a verbal 'my bad' or something?


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## NYDB (Mar 4, 2020)

I believe they'll just give you a smack on the ass at the lift and send you on your way.  

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## sull1102 (Mar 4, 2020)

Jesus Christ. Y’all are out of control on here. I say it sucks that the lift isn’t installed and then you all attack me and anyone else that even attempts to say I’m not totally wrong


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Y’all are out of control on here.



Says the person whose "absolutely pissed" a chairlift isn't installed lol



sull1102 said:


> I would be absolutely pissed if I was a season pass  holder.


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> It's almost like they're not on the same spectrum.



Dome on a roll today.


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## skicub (Mar 5, 2020)

Anyone out for throwback today 3/5? I’ll be at Magic likely till mid afternoon. Short chubby dude, Blue coat, let’s do a run! -Andy


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## JamaicaMan (Mar 5, 2020)

Yeah, wow. Definitely a few sleepless nights on this lift install and a few more gray hairs—not happy at all with how it progressed this fall with concrete contractor and then the GC taking off for two months and not being here getting it moving. We rely on experts to lay out a timetable and budget that is reasonable which we then communicate. Both have blown up. And as it did we communicated throughout the process in emails, Facebook and Instagram. There was no mystery. No hiding the issues. Just letting people know the status. The email this week was not news on it not being fully installed this season...that had been communicated for weeks...it was an update on renewed progress finally. Since I hire the contractors and pay them, it’s ultimately my responsibility if they don’t live up to the commitments they made to us. So be it. Feel free to blame me. But our ops people have worked hard to make the best of a difficult install situation which also impacted some of our snowmaking infrastructure early season. 

But big picture, we are the only mountain to have summit lift  service running all season  in SoVT  (hope that doesn’t jinx us) through high wind and storms and other mtns lift breakdowns. The longest line was 20 minutes on holiday weekends thanks to our successful install of the Green lift last year. The only thing the black lift not being in this season that really hurt us was the opportunity cost in not being able to promote it as installed to get more customer ticket revenue in here to our benefit, and the fact that not delivering on time certainly hurts us reputationally in some quarters as folks were expecting it. It’s the reality of major construction projects at times but still, it doesn’t help a small business trying to establish Magic in a tough competitive environment. Ultimately this lift will help us survive and thrive for the long term and we are doing all we can to deliver this baby for this current and the next generation of skiers coming to a magic so they can count on reliable lift service and lift redundancy to the summit. It gives families an option of a chair they can all ride together. It will get done (and not like the 16 years to get Green lift done). Just one season longer than we all wanted. I’m truly excited for the future and hope most of you are as well. I’m out on the hill every day working the lift lines, parking lots, skiing, having a beer in the Tavern (And some office work too). If you want to grab me and express concerns to me, please do. And I truly appreciate all the great reviews I’ve heard from people as I’m out there which shows we are on the right track. We will never be perfect at running a ski area, but we will keep trying to make it better and limiting the inevitable mistakes. Now, let’s get out and enjoy the remainder of the season either at Magic or the resort of your choice!


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

thanks geoff, for everything you and the team do


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## rocks860 (Mar 5, 2020)

Yeah Geoff is good people, saw him out there for quite a while organizing the lift line on Saturday. Wanted to say hello but it looked like you were busy enough sorting people out


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## ShadyGrove (Mar 5, 2020)

Can I suggest a 'substantial completion' timeline with liquidated damage clause in future contracts?


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## Newpylong (Mar 5, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> They could have paid for the real pros, but didn't. While unfortunately the contractor died, there are challenges with any major construction project and they left themselves with no alternative. That was the mistake, not just luck like a lot are arguing.
> 
> Now they are going to carry the costs associated with this already used lift, for the better part of two years before a single person rides the thing. Letting a nickel hold up a dollar is bad business no matter who you are. Hopefully they didn't finance the thing because that will have effects elsewhere.



Installing a tramway is not the same as installing a bridge. It is not as simple as passing the buck to the next available engineering or construction firm. As has already been discussed, these are highly customized installs and there are very few that can do this kind of work. It didn't matter if someone else was "on deck" waiting for the primary installer to die, they would still have had to submit a modified application with the Tramway board and there would have been a delay in completing the lift. It is not realistic to expect that issue to have been foreseen or hedged against.


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## Newpylong (Mar 5, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> While there is no doubt the new ownership group is hands down better than the one before, they are still making some rookie mistakes.
> 
> Which makes it a good thing they have a faithful following, because if say Killington made a big stink about a new lift, then dropped the ball because they cheaped out on the sub to install and it got delayed an entire season, they'd get roasted for it, and rightfully so.
> 
> Plenty of other mom and pop shops buy used lifts and get them installed correctly and on time. Pat's Peak and Shawnee come to mind.



And just as many "mom and pop" shops don't. It took us two years to get a T-Bar put in at Whaleback. Two years for Ascutney to put their T-bar in. Meanwhile, even the big boys take multiple seasons. Two years for Waterville on their T-Bar, two years for Bretton Woods and their gondy. 

As for Shawnee and Pat's - no really a comparison. Both were existing liftlines and simple profiles - not mile long lifts going up rock faces. Shawnee's triple is 4 towers, Pat's actually did take two years - they flew concrete in 2016 and finished it in 2017. Neither lifts were installed in the most restrictive state (Vermont) as far as construction in New England.


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

This feels like revisionist history outside of Bretton Woods in terms of lifts being delayed (as in did they advertise a new lift for one season, then delay it to the next, vs it always a 2 year timeframe - which is the entire point and a massive difference in situation). Whaleback was basically nelsap and is run by volunteers as a non-profit, so if we want to talk comparisons, that isn't even close to fair. I'm just not going to touch this whole concept that black didn't exist previously, or that Shawnee and Pats were somehow way less complicated. Shawnee even was pretty ahead of the game with their little loading carpet mod. Shawnee and Pats are their competitive set currently in terms of mountain scale, ownership, etc. 

The faithful will always have blind love, and that is mostly a good thing, but Magic management better be careful their internet defenders don't drive anyone away with their constant flogging of anyone who dare criticize their special place. This lift delay is not an ideal situation no matter how you slice it, as management has now said as well. I haven't followed them religiously on social media, but based on their performance I tend to believe Magic that they have indeed been communicating these issues as they arise, but that does not change the notion that the lift got jacked in the first place, by multiple contractors. 

Which in terms of the subs failing, they went with the cheap ones. Others have already pointed this out that Dopp, ETC were too expensive. Those outfits don't shut down because one guy dies. That is a business reality for Magic I'm sure but we are all seeing the risk when choosing that route now. Now throw in the concrete guy also sucking and you start to see a pattern. It sounds like they have learned these lessons. 

Also, as far as I can tell, the regulatory environment of VT has not been the issue with the black lift, but feel free to point me to where it was. I don't doubt it would be a challenge given it being VT and all, but it should not be surprising either, and would have been accounted for in terms of advertising their fancy new lift.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> The faithful will always have blind love



I like the cheap, steep, relatively nearby ski area with the most trees and low key vibe.


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

EDIT: Newpylong deleted his reply, to which the rest of this post is responding

I never said two year installs are unheard of, what I said was saying (advertising) it would be 1 year, then taking two, is. I'll concede Bretton Woods, but overall most companies don't do that. You know this is bad business but keep completely glossing over this point. 

ACT 250 has existed for decades and is well known at this point. If it was a source of unforeseen delays I'm sorry that is on Magic management.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but good on JM for responding, it sounds like they are learning from the situation and continuing to improve. That should also not be overlooked.


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## Newpylong (Mar 5, 2020)

Yes once you added the additional info, my reply was moot because I had misunderstood your point. We were arguing two different things.


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## skimagic (Mar 5, 2020)

Lets sum this up, some folks are mad since the new old non high speed quad is not ready until next year.  So there are lines at red that are just the same as last year. And the lines mean you get 2 less runs in?   If that's what its about,there are plenty of places witha HS6 one can go to that have the same lift lines but you can make it up by having more epic runs with more people on the runs. Enjoy.


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## slatham (Mar 5, 2020)

JamaicaMan said:


> Yeah, wow. Definitely a few sleepless nights on this lift install and a few more gray hairs—not happy at all with how it progressed this fall with concrete contractor and then the GC taking off for two months and not being here getting it moving. We rely on experts to lay out a timetable and budget that is reasonable which we then communicate. Both have blown up. And as it did we communicated throughout the process in emails, Facebook and Instagram. There was no mystery. No hiding the issues. Just letting people know the status. The email this week was not news on it not being fully installed this season...that had been communicated for weeks...it was an update on renewed progress finally. Since I hire the contractors and pay them, it’s ultimately my responsibility if they don’t live up to the commitments they made to us. So be it. Feel free to blame me. But our ops people have worked hard to make the best of a difficult install situation which also impacted some of our snowmaking infrastructure early season.
> 
> But big picture, we are the only mountain to have summit lift  service running all season  in SoVT  (hope that doesn’t jinx us) through high wind and storms and other mtns lift breakdowns. The longest line was 20 minutes on holiday weekends thanks to our successful install of the Green lift last year. The only thing the black lift not being in this season that really hurt us was the opportunity cost in not being able to promote it as installed to get more customer ticket revenue in here to our benefit, and the fact that not delivering on time certainly hurts us reputationally in some quarters as folks were expecting it. It’s the reality of major construction projects at times but still, it doesn’t help a small business trying to establish Magic in a tough competitive environment. Ultimately this lift will help us survive and thrive for the long term and we are doing all we can to deliver this baby for this current and the next generation of skiers coming to a magic so they can count on reliable lift service and lift redundancy to the summit. It gives families an option of a chair they can all ride together. It will get done (and not like the 16 years to get Green lift done). Just one season longer than we all wanted. I’m truly excited for the future and hope most of you are as well. I’m out on the hill every day working the lift lines, parking lots, skiing, having a beer in the Tavern (And some office work too). If you want to grab me and express concerns to me, please do. And I truly appreciate all the great reviews I’ve heard from people as I’m out there which shows we are on the right track. We will never be perfect at running a ski area, but we will keep trying to make it better and limiting the inevitable mistakes. Now, let’s get out and enjoy the remainder of the season either at Magic or the resort of your choice!
> 
> ...



The lack of communication from Magic Management has been beyond frustrating! Total black hole! WFT. I buy a season pass and I never hear from them again? I think I'm going to ski Mt Snow - they really nailed it this year when it comes to communicating with the skiing public!;-):grin:


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> We were promised rides on a black chair and a red chair.  All we get is rides on a red chair.  I don't sit out all day at the railroad crossing just to see some everyday workhorse chug through off-schedule, and I sure as heck don't subject myself to the hazards and risks of alpine skiing to ride only half the colored chairs I bargained for.



They made 3 of one model, and 2 of the other. Sit your ass at the crossing like the rest of the railfans and take your pictures! :lol::lol::lol:


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I’ve stated multiple times that there were in fact issues that came up around the timeline. The issue was that Magic both guaranteed that it would operate this season and for a good portion of the season completely stopped progress and left it as a mystery to the public. Any good ownership would explain what had happened and try to make good from it. It’s as simple as that.



Ah, now we know...  :lol::lol::lol:


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Ah, now we know...  :lol::lol::lol:



fixed


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I am not spoiled and I am not a nerd. Please stop with this. When they build up so much “hype” around something like this new quad and promise it, they should be able to deliver on it. Clearly due to difficult circumstances they couldn’t. Okay. Why wasn’t an apology email sent out to their pass holders or at least a note. At least Win did something like this when he stopped running GMX midweek. Until recently it was all a mystery and the lift was still expected to open for this year.* I actually had a part in the planning of this process back in 2018. It’s a long story, but I’ve been following this whole project for awhile now and care about it. *




Sure ya did... ;-)

:lol::lol::lol:


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

Good one Tuna! But when the fam is watching Young Sheldon tonight, I'm gonna keep laughing thinking of his twin...


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## Domeskier (Mar 5, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Slidebrook87 said:
> 
> 
> > I actually had a part in the planning of this process back in 2018. It’s a long story, but I’ve been following this whole project for awhile now and care about it.
> ...



I have no reason to doubt that Magic Mountain would consult a 12-year-old in planning major infrastructure projects, but I sure would like to hear the rest of the story.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

his contribution:



first new single chair in the US in decades!


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 5, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> I have no reason to doubt that Magic Mountain would consult a 12-year-old in planning major infrastructure projects, but I sure would like to hear the rest of the story.



Here’s essentially what happened: 


So the manager of base facilities  also worked as a waitress at a restaurant we used to go to. She heard I was into lifts and mountain ops after talking and told me that they were looking for a lift to replace the Black Chair. I told them that Stratton was looking to remove Snow Bowl and Burke was removing Willoughby. I sent her a long email about the two lifts and she showed it to the GM. He then emailed me back and eventually they worked a deal out with Stratton. I didn’t exactly choose the lift but I had a minor role in the process.


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## Domeskier (Mar 5, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> Here’s essentially what happened:
> 
> 
> So the manager of base facilities  also worked as a waitress at a restaurant we used to go to. She heard I was into lifts and mountain ops after talking and told me that they were looking for a lift to replace the Black Chair. I told them that Stratton was looking to remove Snow Bowl and Burke was removing Willoughby. I sent her a long email about the two lifts and she showed it to the GM. He then emailed me back and eventually they worked a deal out with Stratton. I didn’t exactly choose the lift but I had a minor role in the process.



You should have recommended a funicular.  Just imagine taking a train to the top of Black Magic.  I know I am!


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## Smellytele (Mar 5, 2020)

Was there ever an actual "promise" that they would have it installed this year?
There bad business decision was to take the word of a contractor. They were lied to and passed the lie on in their excitement.

As far as the death of the contractor - wasn't that with the green chair?


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 5, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Was there ever an actual "promise" that they would have it installed this year?
> There bad business decision was to take the word of a contractor. They were lied to and passed the lie on in their excitement.
> 
> As far as the death of the contractor - wasn't that with the green chair?



I believe it was the green chair. Here’s a link to the “promise” they made encouraging people to buy a season pass: https://www.instagram.com/p/BxPxrP3lmba/?igshid=1n8n5vez0hc9x 

Along with this there were multiple #quadcoming hashtags as well as #makewayforthequad 


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

I still fail to see the issue, especially as some think it pertained to "Season Pass" purchases. Delays happen. At Killington, weren't both the Snowdon 6, and the South Ridge Quad BOTH finished behind schedule? (Never mind the tunnel work..) The Snowdon Triple was being worked on TWO winters in a row before they finally called that job complete. Poma relocation took longer than expected... You can buy a pass with the expectation of some upgrades being completed at some point, but to bitch and complain that any delays were intentional, or that Management over promised just to try to sell a couple extra passes is ridiculous, and anyone who thought they were defrauded in some way, shape or form, is just being an ass.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

an ass, or a petulant little bitch.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I believe it was the green chair. Here’s a link to the “promise” they made encouraging people to buy a season pass: https://www.instagram.com/p/BxPxrP3lmba/?igshid=1n8n5vez0hc9x
> 
> Along with this there were multiple #quadcoming hashtags as well as #makewayforthequad
> 
> ...



So where is the *statement that it was going to be 100% guaranteed* that the Quad was going to be operational this season?


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> So where is the *statement that it was going to be 100% guaranteed* that the Quad was going to be operational this season?



Don't be obtuse, that is exactly what that ad meant and you know it.

I highly doubt this kid though made any impact on them buying said chair from Stratton though. I missed that and had to laugh.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

its ludicrous that he thinks he had anything to do with it.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

I'm not being obtuse, you're being an ASS! 

I have no dog in the fight as I didn't buy a pass at Magic this year. But I did read all the emails and ads and information, and I NEVER saw or read anything that looked like a "Hey come buy a Seasons Pass, we'll have that new lift running before the end of season, bet your life savings on it!!"

Nobody, is EVER going to try to make a sale like that, just for the reasons that played out here... and installations all over. SHIT HAPPENS! And sometimes things don't get completed by expected/planned deadlines.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

Is Magician closed today due to lack of snow/coverage or does it need to soften up?

curious because I was hoping to take my wife on it Sunday


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 5, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> I highly doubt this kid though made any impact on them buying said chair from Stratton though. I missed that and had to laugh.



That I wholeheartedly agree with you on, and laughed as well. Such a huge ego young Slidegoo/Sheldon has!


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## drjeff (Mar 5, 2020)

slatham said:


> The lack of communication from Magic Management has been beyond frustrating! Total black hole! WFT. I buy a season pass and I never hear from them again? I think I'm going to ski Mt Snow - they really nailed it this year when it comes to communicating with the skiing public!;-):grin:


LOL!!

And your sarcasm is awesome, just wish the wasn't so true these days of my home hill about 20 miles as the bird flies South of Magic, where we've gone in the last 3 years from arguably one of the most openly communicative GM's who encouraged her designated team heads to be as open with communications as well, to a GM who while doesn't like the public spot light very much let his designated team members communicate with guests quite alot and effectively, to now new ownership who are about a full 180* turn in communication style as the previous owners let happen 

Kudos to Geoff and how he effectively communicates with his guests (and social media) which is just as great as all of the on mountain improvements he's helped bring about and oversee! 

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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Kudos to Geoff and how he effectively communicates with his guests (and social media)\



If I was in his or Win S position I'd be issuing blanket bans to anyone participating on this forum.

Anyway I'd love if my question about Magician gets answered instead of buried in this. How's the base holding up in the woods compared to last Sunday? Looks like everything's still open.

I'm pumped for my next ski day @ Magic on sunday!


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## Vaughn (Mar 5, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Anyway I'd love if my question about Magician gets answered instead of buried in this. How's the base holding up in the woods compared to last Sunday? Looks like everything's still open.
> 
> I'm pumped for my next ski day @ Magic on sunday!



Hoping to get there tomorrow or Saturday, would like to know just how icy this is going to be also.


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## cdskier (Mar 5, 2020)

So are there actually any legitimate pass-holders that bought a pass solely because they thought there would be a quad and are now pissed? I somehow don't think there's going to be many people falling into that scenario...


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> *You should have recommended a funicular.*  Just imagine taking a train to the top of Black Magic.



Pulling into a mountain-top lodge with floor to ceiling windows.  Opportunity lost.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

cdskier said:


> So are there actually any legitimate pass-holders ... pissed?



Of course not. If they were they'd already being skiing some fancy ass mountain for way more money.


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## Lynxy Woods (Mar 5, 2020)

Apparently no one here skied Magic in the mid-late 80s. Lines were long and they had life guard chairs set up at the lift and we played Trivial Pursuit and won bags of Smartfood to pass the time.


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## The Sneak (Mar 5, 2020)

I was there on a holiday Monday a couple of weeks ago, with a race going on to boot, yet Red was never more than a 5 minute wait. Full parking lot. Not a single spider incident either, try that at Stratton.

Problem?





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## urungus (Mar 5, 2020)

How is the new Pitch Black trail ?  And how does it rank in difficulty compared to Black Magic, Magician, Green Line ?  (I’ve never had the nerve to make it down any of those 3)


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## skicub (Mar 5, 2020)

Fun morning today, though it was a bit crispy in the shade. Friendly atmosphere and some great terrain. They definitely need some snow on naturals, but most of the East side was in great shape, considering the weather. This is lower wizard and green line. 


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## NYDB (Mar 6, 2020)

Pitch black is probably about on par with magician and green line as far as skiability.  No mandatory air.  No severe ledges you cant ski around on trail in flow.  Very skiable for a strong intermediate I think.  At least with good snow coverage.

Black Magic is the toughest trail at Magic by far IMO.   A couple of big ledges, with spots you can barely scoot around the edges by dipping into the trees if you need to.  But to ski it proper requires 2 (maybe 3?) mandatory drops which require commitment.  After that it's all easy peasy.  





urungus said:


> How is the new Pitch Black trail ?  And how does it rank in difficulty compared to Black Magic, Magician, Green Line ?  (I’ve never had the nerve to make it down any of those 3)



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## MMP (Mar 6, 2020)

More importantly, WTF is going on with the pinball machine. I was PROMISED this would be operational by MLK weekend. 







And for the record: whistler installed Peak to Peak in less time. Pffft. 


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 6, 2020)

cdskier said:


> So are there actually any legitimate pass-holders that bought a pass solely because they thought there would be a quad and are now pissed? I somehow don't think there's going to be many people falling into that scenario...



I'm so pissed i'm going to head right up there & ski in a silly 80's outfit tomorrow. 



Lynxy Woods said:


> Apparently no one here skied Magic in the mid-late 80s. Lines were long and they had life guard chairs set up at the lift and we played Trivial Pursuit and won bags of Smartfood to pass the time.



Haven't had Smartfood since. The single Twix bars were better. 



urungus said:


> How is the new Pitch Black trail ?  And how does it rank in difficulty compared to Black Magic, Magician, Green Line ?  (I’ve never had the nerve to make it down any of those 3)



Pitch Black (PB) TM, is really awesome. Much better than I thought. Going to be a banner pic spot from the lift.  Like Dirtbag said, more skiable.  Nice flow.  Should be able to point it & head for Black.



MMP said:


> More importantly, WTF is going on with the pinball machine. I was PROMISED this would be operational by MLK weekend.



I read somewhere Mammoth put in an escalator.  I really hope that's in the plans for Magic.


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## MMP (Mar 6, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> I'm so pissed i'm going to head right up there & ski in a silly 80's outfit tomorrow.
> 
> I read somewhere Mammoth put in an escalator.  I really hope that's in the plans for Magic.



Barged into a managers meeting yesterday to demand answers on the pinball machine. Probably should have gotten answers on the lift too. 

Escalator? That’s how they do it “out west”


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 6, 2020)

Knowing you i'm sure you got a guarantee along with that demand.  solid work.

Still pissed.  Might head over later to break some windows n shit.  Or ski, either one.


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## MMP (Mar 6, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> Knowing you i'm sure you got a guarantee along with that demand.  solid work.
> 
> Still pissed.  Might head over later to break some windows n shit.  Or ski, either one.



Kinda sunny and warm. No new lift though, should probably stay away.  




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## urungus (Mar 6, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> Pitch black is probably about on par with magician and green line as far as skiability.  No mandatory air.  No severe ledges you cant ski around on trail in flow.  Very skiable for a strong intermediate I think.  At least with good snow coverage.
> 
> Black Magic is the toughest trail at Magic by far IMO.   A couple of big ledges, with spots you can barely scoot around the edges by dipping into the trees if you need to.  But to ski it proper requires 2 (maybe 3?) mandatory drops which require commitment.  After that it's all easy peasy.



Hmm, not sure that an intermediate skier should be heading down Magician or Green Line, no matter how good the coverage.


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## Vaughn (Mar 6, 2020)

Skied Magic all day. 

The good: the groomed trails with snowmaking were great fun. Icy and stiff at first but they softened right up. Trick and Talisman and the bottom half of Black Line (below Link, maybe Hocus Pocus) were great. Upper Wizard excellent conditions. 

The bad: the double blacks are all shot and I can't see how they open. Magicians, Black Line are more rocks than snow. Didn't go into any glades but the Hallows were open. Sleight of Hans was open but the bottom (as seen from Lower Wizard) was pipes and a stream with one small area to get off the trail. I did not try it. Twilight Zone was open but I didn't see anyone on it and the bottom looked rough. Goniff looked ok from Trick but Witches was closed so you couldn't get to it anyways. 

The other: The far east trails were all thin cover, but honestly pretty fun while skiing around bare ground patches and slushy snow. Lower Wizard was open but again, lots of thin cover and one big ass rock right in the middle of the trail, sort of stupid. Sorcerer was open and as easy as its ever been as it was mostly soft little piles of snows and not real (exhausting) moguls. Lower Magician was the same but easier of course. Still fun. 

Great mountain. Longest wait was two chairs. The red lift is slow so I will enjoy the new faster one - next year.


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## MMP (Mar 7, 2020)

Vaughn said:


> Skied Magic all day.
> 
> The good: the groomed trails with snowmaking were great fun. Icy and stiff at first but they softened right up. Trick and Talisman and the bottom half of Black Line (below Link, maybe Hocus Pocus) were great. Upper Wizard excellent conditions.
> 
> ...



I was there yesterday and conditions were great if too thin for this time of year. That said, Sorcerer, TZ, BlackLine (though closed) all skied great. Its patch skiing, but softened nicely. UYS skied well but the runout gets sloppy if it gets too warm, only skied that 1X, The lower part of the mountain softened early and if you skied Green you could hit. Mystery Bowl, Kinder, Show Off, etc, and have hero snow all the way down. 

Place was empty, only rode the lift one guy all day. Retired dentist, probably on TGR. 

Props to lift op Alex. He shovels nonstop to keep a good loading area. Maybe too much, but too much work? I'll take it. 

Pinball still not operational as of 4:30 pm.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 8, 2020)

Today was fun up there, took my wife and we talked about the family friendly atmosphere and great learning area.

Conditions were thin spring with everything from ice to bare and usually plenty of snow in between. My wife was up for some adventure, happy to pick her way through a very-thin and options-limited Wardrobe, a pretty-slick Talisman, and a "I can't believe they opened this" Magician. I did tell my wife to go around and take Broomstick but she followed me down before I knew it -- quite the challenge for both of us actually with most of the trail being rock/bare or a flow of ice sheets and really just a narrow single-width pitch on the left side to skid+jump down.

So after that Heart of Magician skied like butter. Soft bumps with some bare here and there, but man was this a playful run, moguls made of butter and just carving up these natural features. Sorcerer was great as well, more of a typical mogul formation at play.

Run of the day I'm torn between Goniff Glade. The trail always wows me in how great the pitch is and moguls are, one of my favorite fall lines anywhere. Conditions were a little sporty but just made me ski it harder.

Other run of the day was Seance > White Kitten. Seance had "great"(thin) coverage and a nice surfy flow to it, then you pop out above Green... I was actually glad to see White Tiger was closed because after last week I know they'd be nuts to have it open (even for Magic), so we went into White Kitten instead and that was a nice combination.

Looks like the fat lady's warming up her vocal chords but the 2 trips I got to Magic over the last week will definitely reinforce a positive notion when I'm planning for next season and future skiing for our family.

My wife being a trooper..


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 9, 2020)

way to go Tuna... My wife would still be yelling at me if She was in the position your wife is in depicted in that picture :lol:


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## Vaughn (Mar 9, 2020)

That's cool that they dropped the rope on Magician - from the top it looked pretty unskiable on Friday but I guess they were saving it for the weekend guests. 

Where did the race on Black Line start? At the top? That cliff band above Link looked like it would be a bottleneck but maybe I'm thinking too conservatively about where you could have skied on it.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 9, 2020)

Vaughn said:


> That's cool that they dropped the rope on Magician - from the top it looked pretty unskiable on Friday but I guess they were saving it for the weekend guests.



Didn't open up until enough sun warmed it up early afternoon. I always in favor of runs being open (with a warning sign or whatever) but this was pretty hairy even once it "softened up". Glad we got to ski it though.


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## MG Skier (Mar 9, 2020)

I haven't been out to Magic in a few weeks. Someone please disconnect the gas lines to the blow torch or put some goggles on the sun! Sunday was a wonderful ski day and I skied 18 miles, could have done 20+ but decided to head home about 3 ish (I have a 2 hr 40 minute drive.)

1. Some observations: Brownie is a fantastic operator! The groomers were great and Trick is ALWAYS in fantastic shape.
2. There was a race, there were no lines!
3. New Bullwheel looks great!
4. Great beers on tap and available at Sunshine Corner.
5. I so dig the vibe and don't enjoy leaving the hill, ever!

Only negative: too warm too early, not enough snow pack (for these temps.). I hope I can get out there a few more times before we run out of snow!

Thanks for a great day yesterday Magic!


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## NYDB (Mar 9, 2020)

Vaughn said:


> That's cool that they dropped the rope on Magician - from the top it looked pretty unskiable on Friday but I guess they were saving it for the weekend guests.
> 
> Where did the race on Black Line start? At the top? That cliff band above Link looked like it would be a bottleneck but maybe I'm thinking too conservatively about where you could have skied on it.



What race was going on?  I forgot what race it was last year but the winners just straightlined and sent it off those ledges. You don't need snow if your skis aren't on the ground!


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## MMP (Mar 10, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Didn't open up until enough sun warmed it up early afternoon. I always in favor of runs being open (with a warning sign or whatever) but this was pretty hairy even once it "softened up". Glad we got to ski it though.



Magician was great below broomstick and rough above. Hilariously rough.  I’m fairly adept at skiing the snow where it is, but this was rocks or ice, and occasionally a spot to turn. Adventure skiing at its finest. I taught my kids to “aim for the snow” when they were growing up at MM. 


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## NYDB (Mar 11, 2020)

Looks grim on the webcam.  I'm guessing only snowmaking trails from this point forward?  Especially with the temps through Friday and the additional kick to the nuts rain Friday?

So like 15 trails?  Website says 42 trails expected 3/12.


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## AlexSwift (Mar 12, 2020)

im Loving it!


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## MMP (Mar 12, 2020)

AlexSwift said:


> im Loving it!



1 post in 9 years and this is what you muster??


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 12, 2020)

MMP said:


> 1 post in 9 years and this is what you muster??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Joined March 2020 lol


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## MMP (Mar 15, 2020)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Joined March 2020 lol



oh. oops.



I WILL BE SEEKING A SIGNIFICANT REFUND FROM MAGIC FOR THE FOLLOWING;


A: BLACK NOT BEING COMPLETED 
B: EARLY CLOSING


THESE CAPS SHOULD INDICATE HOW SERIOUS I AM.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 15, 2020)

MMP said:


> oh. oops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Being someone with no relation to Magic Mountain.... go eat sand. 

There are plenty of issues that MM will be facing in the coming months which are far more serious than your wallet.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

He’s a magic loyalist and regular being highly sarcastic bc some other people on this board (orca) are real pieces of dirt about this situation at other mountains, and others (sb87) being real dorks about the black chair at magic


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## slatham (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> He’s a magic loyalist and regular being highly sarcastic



Yes, yes he is....After reading some of the other threads the levity was much appreciated.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 15, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> He’s a magic loyalist and regular being highly sarcastic bc some other people on this board (orca) are real pieces of dirt about this situation at other mountains, and others (sb87) being real dorks about the black chair at magic




Lol good. I don’t think AZ has ever seen this much activity. Can’t even keep up at this point.


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## MMP (Mar 15, 2020)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Lol good. I don’t think AZ has ever seen this much activity. Can’t even keep up at this point.



Relieved you’re back at ease. Whoever you are. 

[emoji849][emoji533]


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## NYDB (Mar 15, 2020)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Being someone with no relation to Magic Mountain.... go eat sand.
> 
> There are plenty of issues that MM will be facing in the coming months which are far more serious than your wallet.



What issues are those?


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## ScottySkis (Mar 15, 2020)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Lol good. I don’t think AZ has ever seen this much activity. Can’t even keep up at this point.



They used before Facebook ski the east came in the picture
Lots left here for many other reasons different places


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## crazy (Mar 15, 2020)

I have an unused Magic ticket that I'm not going to get to use, but I'm not going to complain. I'm more than happy to support a hardworking indie operation like Magic. Great people. Can't wait to come back next season.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2020)

Yea I’ve got an unused 4pack. We were saving it for this coming weekend. Booked a house with a group of friends in early feb when we figured mid March was a safe bet. If magic wants to let us use them next season or calendar 2020, cool. If not, that’s ok too. I’m happy to donate $160 to magic.


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## MMP (Mar 16, 2020)

kustytheklown said:


> yea i’ve got an unused 4pack. We were saving it for this coming weekend. Booked a house with a group of friends in early feb when we figured mid march was a safe bet. If magic wants to let us use them next season or calendar 2020, cool. If not, that’s ok too. I’m happy to donate $160 to magic.




CLASS ACTION????


That's 5 day tickets and i only have about 20 days on my pass!!!!!


Lets litigate!


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 16, 2020)

Honestly, all mountains should honor 2019-2020 pre-paid tickets, lift ticket vouchers, etc... for next season.  

 Not only is it the right thing to do given this unprecedented situation, but it's the business savvy thing to do as well from both a customer service perspective & a customer retention perspective.  

It will be interesting to see which mountains make that call, and which do not.  IMO, the smarter, better run mountains will do it, the penny-wise-and-pound-foolish run mountains will not.


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## NYDB (Mar 16, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Honestly, all mountains should honor 2019-2020 pre-paid tickets, lift ticket vouchers, etc... for next season.
> 
> Not only is it the right thing to do given this unprecedented situation, but it's the business savvy thing to do as well from both a customer service perspective & a customer retention perspective.
> 
> It will be interesting to see which mountains make that call, and which do not.  IMO, the smarter, better run mountains will do it, the penny-wise-and-pound-foolish run mountains will not.



For pre xmas time period I would agree.  If anyone was holding Magic vouchers at this point and they end up being honored next year they basically got lucky.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 16, 2020)

Yeah, it's almost a no-brainer to AT LEAST make them all valid thru Early Season next winter, if not the Holiday Season or Entire Season... I guess it would depend on the Hill, some don't do Early Season as much.


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## icecoast1 (Mar 16, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Honestly, all mountains should honor 2019-2020 pre-paid tickets, lift ticket vouchers, etc... for next season.
> 
> Not only is it the right thing to do given this unprecedented situation, but it's the business savvy thing to do as well from both a customer service perspective & a customer retention perspective.
> 
> It will be interesting to see which mountains make that call, and which do not.  IMO, the smarter, better run mountains will do it, the penny-wise-and-pound-foolish run mountains will not.




If you're a small independent ski area, can you afford to do this?  There are probably tons of people out there with prepaid tickets that arent used because of the weather,  although the virus killed the season, it's not like Magic would have been open much longer anyway.


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## mbedle (Mar 16, 2020)

Sugarbush quad packs are good till 12/24/20.


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## slatham (Mar 16, 2020)

mbedle said:


> Sugarbush quad packs are good till 12/24/20.



And that was the right call as Sugarbush is typically open daily until mid April and weekends through the first weekend of May. While March 15 is a bit early for Magic, it’s not by much. I mean if they were open every weekend in March it would only be 4 (weekends only) to 6 (+Friday) days more to ski. That said I think they should do something- maybe 1/2 price pre Christmas with any prepaid ticket from this year? Could be a win win.


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## Newpylong (Mar 16, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> If you're a small independent ski area, can you afford to do this?  There are probably tons of people out there with prepaid tickets that arent used because of the weather,  although the virus killed the season, it's not like Magic would have been open much longer anyway.



If I was still in the game I would handle it on a case by case basis. Ski products (passes, prepaid tickets, etc and so on) usually have a 100% non-returnable/non-refundable policy clearly spelled out at the time of purchase. Yes, that even applies to COVID-19 and other force majeure instances. It would all depend on a trade off between good will vs the economic hit.


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## Harvey (Mar 16, 2020)

slatham said:


> Could be a win win.



Good one!  If you are talking about the bush.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 16, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> *If you're a small independent ski area, can you afford to do this? * There are probably tons of people out there with prepaid tickets that arent used because of the weather,  although the virus killed the season, it's not like Magic would have been open much longer anyway.



Easily.  It was mid-March by the time this happened, the vast majority of inventory would have been used.


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## MMP (Mar 17, 2020)

It would be a mistake for Magic to honor unused passes/vouchers from this year. It’s not their burden to bear. If it didn’t snow you’d be in the same boat. I hope they reject this idea and make a smart business decision. No one that’s an actual stakeholder would demand this.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 17, 2020)

MMP said:


> *It would be a mistake for Magic to honor unused passes/vouchers from this year. *It’s not their burden to bear. *If it didn’t snow you’d be in the same boat. *I hope they reject this idea and make a smart business decision.



Except this had nothing to do with a bad snow year that you didnt monitor weather properly & use them on time.

This is was a global black swan pandemic that shut down all aggregations of human beings per CDC guidelines.

Every hill will have to make its' own decision, but I'm tellin' ya, from a financial perspective honoring that little outstanding inventory is the intelligent decision.  Hills will lose more money from the very few people that snub the given hill(s) than they'll ever recover from honoring literally a few lift tickets which have already been paid for anyway.  There are scores of case studies on this sort of question in varied industries, and the answer is always the same.


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 17, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Except this had nothing to do with a bad snow year that you didnt monitor weather properly & use them on time.
> 
> This is was a global black swan pandemic that shut down all aggregations of human beings per CDC guidelines.
> 
> Every hill will have to make its' own decision, but I'm tellin' ya, from a financial perspective honoring that little outstanding inventory is the intelligent decision.  Hills will lose more money from the very few people that snub the given hill(s) than they'll ever recover from honoring literally a few lift tickets which have already been paid for anyway.  There are scores of case studies on this sort of question in varied industries, and the answer is always the same.



Would staying open another week with a rain/freeze cycle lead to many people using tickets? In this situation it's almost all weather related


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2020)

i had reservations at magic for this coming weekend. house 1 mile from base, intention to use quad pack, audible to stratton ready to be deployed with stratton days saved on ikon specifically if magic was a no go.

i dont care if they dont honor my quad pack. cool if they do. fine if they dont. i will continue supporting them no matter what.


----------



## skiur (Mar 17, 2020)

It was the middle of March when magic closed.  They might hAve made it another week or might not have.  I think their obligation to pass holders was met.


----------



## MMP (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Except this had nothing to do with a bad snow year that you didnt monitor weather properly & use them on time.
> 
> This is was a global black swan pandemic that shut down all aggregations of human beings per CDC guidelines.
> 
> Every hill will have to make its' own decision, but I'm tellin' ya, from a financial perspective honoring that little outstanding inventory is the intelligent decision.  Hills will lose more money from the very few people that snub the given hill(s) than they'll ever recover from honoring literally a few lift tickets which have already been paid for anyway.  There are scores of case studies on this sort of question in varied industries, and the answer is always the same.



Name one study of the scores you reference. 

I’ll go a step further and say if you demand your 4-pack be honored and leave if not, good riddance. Selfish. Try that shit with Vail. You expect Magic to give in to you because they’re small. You take advantage of their accessibility. Weak. 

I used my IKON 1 day at Lake Louise and 1 day at Sugarbush. I expect that the problems the now out of work employees of these companies are in a worse spot than most of us. But yah, go get that day comp from Geoff. 


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 18, 2020)

I heard all passes will be UPGRADED to a summer hiking & Volunteer Day pass.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

MMP said:


> Name one study of the scores you reference. I’ll go a step further and say if you demand your 4-pack be honored and leave if not, good riddance. Selfish. Try that shit with Vail. You expect Magic to give in to you because they’re small. You take advantage of their accessibility. Weak.  I used my IKON 1 day at Lake Louise and 1 day at Sugarbush. I expect that the problems the now out of work employees of these companies are in a worse spot than most of us. But yah, go get that day comp from Geoff.



I'm not just talking about Magic, I'm talking about all mountains.  You seem to have a laser-focus on Magic whereas I'm talking about the entire ski industry (which should be obvious from my comments).   

In terms of studies, do your own homework.   I'll get you started though, search: "cost of customer acquisition" as well as "the customer is always right" (a fallacy, but will lead you in the right direction), "cost of customer dissatisfaction" (sometimes written as "cost of unhappy customers").   Pretty much all the boring crap kids learn in a basic early college level P.O.M. course.

And frankly, in this case (ski resorts) it's even more no-brainer than most cases.  There is literally ZERO cost to allow a customer sitting on 1 or 2 prepaid vouchers or lift tickets to use them in a limited capacity next season, and you're almost guaranteeing "customer return", which will sprinkle cash on your properties hotels, restaurants, and bars & other skiing-related ancillary revenue opportunities.


----------



## Domeskier (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> And frankly, in this case (ski resorts) it's even more no-brainer than most cases.  There is literally ZERO cost to allow a customer sitting on 1 or 2 prepaid vouchers or lift tickets to use them in a limited capacity next season, and you're almost guaranteeing "customer return", which will sprinkle cash on your properties hotels, restaurants, and bars & other skiing-related ancillary revenue opportunities.



Agreed.  It's not just "selfish" people a resort has to worry about.  If I buy a four pack to some mountain and don't end up using it for whatever reason, I'm probably not buying it again next season.  Not because I'm angry at the mountain, but because I don't want to spend money on some product I'm not sure I'll use.  This is an easy way to get his type of casual skier back on the mountain and possibly turning them into a committed repeat customer.


----------



## slatham (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm not just talking about Magic, I'm talking about all mountains.  You seem to have a laser-focus on Magic whereas I'm talking about the entire ski industry (which should be obvious from my comments).
> 
> In terms of studies, do your own homework.   I'll get you started though, search: "cost of customer acquisition" as well as "the customer is always right" (a fallacy, but will lead you in the right direction), "cost of customer dissatisfaction" (sometimes written as "cost of unhappy customers").   Pretty much all the boring crap kids learn in a basic early college level P.O.M. course.
> 
> And frankly, in this case (ski resorts) it's even more no-brainer than most cases.  There is literally ZERO cost to allow a customer sitting on 1 or 2 prepaid vouchers or lift tickets to use them in a limited capacity next season, and you're almost guaranteeing "customer return", which will sprinkle cash on your properties hotels, restaurants, and bars & other skiing-related ancillary revenue opportunities.



Out of curiosity, would using the pre-paid ticket from 19/20 to buy a discounted ticket in 20/21 be satisfactory?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

slatham said:


> Out of curiosity, *would using the pre-paid ticket from 19/20 to buy a discounted ticket in 20/21 be satisfactory?*



I'm not sure what you mean by discounted.

If I ran a ski area what I would do is allow unused 2019-2020 product be used from March 1st, 2021 to close.  

Yes, the COVID19 fears started in late-February, but March 1 is a "clean" date.  This way you're not rewarding people who just sat on them to use them in December or January, and you really are compensating for the unprecedented viral closure, especially all those people who genuinely planned to use prepaid lift tickets, prepaid vouchers, snowchecks, etc.. in March or April.  

My resolution limits any financial impact to the mountain (small though it would be anyway) & keeps all your customers happy ensuring 100% customer retention, which again I cannot stress enough how important that is.


----------



## crazy (Mar 18, 2020)

skiur said:


> It was the middle of March when magic closed.  They might hAve made it another week or might not have.  I think their obligation to pass holders was met.



Agreed. I had one ticket remaining at Magic that I had already figured wouldn't get used anyway, and now of course didn't get used. But they were close to closing up shop anyway, so I'm not upset. I'll be back next year to support them.

Look at the forecast: after a tiny bit of snow tomorrow morning, they're getting rain on Thursday and Friday, with a high of 64 mid-mountain on Friday! I doubt there will be a whole lot of snow left there by the weekend. I would love it if someone who lives near Magic and felt safe enough could take a picture of what the resort looks like by Sunday.


----------



## MMP (Mar 18, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm not just talking about Magic, I'm talking about all mountains.  You seem to have a laser-focus on Magic whereas I'm talking about the entire ski industry (which should be obvious from my comments).
> 
> In terms of studies, do your own homework.   I'll get you started though, search: "cost of customer acquisition" as well as "the customer is always right" (a fallacy, but will lead you in the right direction), "cost of customer dissatisfaction" (sometimes written as "cost of unhappy customers").   Pretty much all the boring crap kids learn in a basic early college level P.O.M. course.
> 
> And frankly, in this case (ski resorts) it's even more no-brainer than most cases.  There is literally ZERO cost to allow a customer sitting on 1 or 2 prepaid vouchers or lift tickets to use them in a limited capacity next season, and you're almost guaranteeing "customer return", which will sprinkle cash on your properties hotels, restaurants, and bars & other skiing-related ancillary revenue opportunities.




You quote something as fact, attribute it. Basic early college level shit you know....or think bibliography, basic Jr high level....

My guess is you're a bag-lunch, day-trip guy that spends jack shit and is overly righteous about how people should respect your quad pack purchase... 

This isn't tripping over dollars to pick up pennies, this is penny pinchers feeling aggrieved because they didn't ski enough in December, January, February....

Any why would I NOT be laser focused on Magic? This is the Magic thread. I'm guessing I could find your opinions all over Alpine Zone if I looked huh?


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 18, 2020)

MMP said:


> My guess is you're a bag-lunch, day-trip guy that spends jack shit and is overly righteous about how people should respect your quad pack purchase...



You seem pleasant.


----------



## Nesta (Mar 18, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> I heard all passes will be UPGRADED to a summer hiking & Volunteer Day pass.



I just had to come on here and make my first comment ever an “lol” at this.  


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## WoodCore (Mar 18, 2020)

Nesta said:


> I just had to come on here and make my first comment ever an “lol” at this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## MMP (Mar 19, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> You seem pleasant.




you're a devils fan, it would never have worked out anyway....


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 19, 2020)

:lol:


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## slatham (Mar 19, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by discounted.
> 
> If I ran a ski area what I would do is allow unused 2019-2020 product be used from March 1st, 2021 to close.
> 
> ...



By discounted I mean less than face value, normal definition, nothing tricky......

My suggestion is: you present your unused 19/20 prepaid ticket and you buy a day ticket during the 20/21 season for less than the walk up rate. Perhaps 1/2 price if bought during off peak times, smaller discount if at peak/holiday time.  This way you get some value for your otherwise worthless 19/20 ticket, but the mountain gets a bit of revenue. 

Or do view anything as less than full usage next year (or next March) not customer friendly?


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## MMP (Mar 20, 2020)

slatham said:


> By discounted I mean less than face value, normal definition, nothing tricky......
> 
> My suggestion is: you present your unused 19/20 prepaid ticket and you buy a day ticket during the 20/21 season for less than the walk up rate. Perhaps 1/2 price if bought during off peak times, smaller discount if at peak/holiday time.  This way you get some value for your otherwise worthless 19/20 ticket, but the mountain gets a bit of revenue.
> 
> Or do view anything as less than full usage next year (or next March) not customer friendly?



Maybe a deal on a Thursday? This years voucher and $29 for a full day.  


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## prsboogie (Mar 20, 2020)

MMP said:


> Maybe a deal on a Thursday? This years voucher and $29 for a full day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I lol'd!

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## BenedictGomez (Mar 20, 2020)

slatham said:


> Or do view anything as less than full usage next year (or next March) not customer friendly?



As I said, I wouldnt let them use it all year, I'd do March.   And if you're going to do 1/2, you may as well do full.

But if the economy gets totally drilled, resorts may want to do anything they can to encourage visits.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 20, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> As I said, I wouldnt let them use it all year, I'd do March.   And if you're going to do 1/2, you may as well do full.
> 
> But if the economy gets totally drilled, resorts may want to do anything they can to encourage visits.



Like sanitizing and cleaning everything for real important now


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## crazy (Mar 20, 2020)

To everyone complaining about not being able to use unused lift tickets: does anybody know what the mountain looks like today? Is there even snow anymore after the rain and today's 60 degree temperatures? I wouldn't be surprised if last weekend was the final weekend of skiing, COVID-19 or not.


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## NYDB (Apr 1, 2020)

Anyone know if the lift install is still a go this year?

If so, Magic will be installing one more lift this year than all of Vail corp.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 1, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> Anyone know if the lift install is still a go this year?
> 
> If so, Magic will be installing one more lift this year than all of Vail corp.




It's already 90 percent done.   And the latest update says they still plan on finishing it


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## Newpylong (Apr 1, 2020)

Oh it is far from 90% done. There's a lot more to a lift install than steel.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Oh it is far from 90% done. There's a lot more to a lift install than steel.



I was going to say that I thought they still had a ways  to go....


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## skiur (Apr 2, 2020)

Is installing a lift considered essential?  I wouldn't think so.


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## Slidebrook87 (Apr 2, 2020)

They still have to do the motor room, tensioning, haul rope, chairs, return bullwheel, controls, comm lines, ramps, etc. There’s still quite a bit to do. 


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## sull1102 (Apr 2, 2020)

skiur said:


> Is installing a lift considered essential?  I wouldn't think so.



Construction has been deemed essential down here in MA, but Magic or the contractor might decide to hold for now.


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## skiur (Apr 2, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Construction has been deemed essential down here in MA, but Magic or the contractor might decide to hold for now.



Construction is not considered essential in MA as of 3-31. Also magic is not in MA so it is a moot point anyway.


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## tumbler (Apr 2, 2020)

skiur said:


> Construction is not considered essential in MA as of 3-31. Also magic is not in MA so it is a moot point anyway.



you are very incorrect about MA


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## prsboogie (Apr 2, 2020)

Critical retailers
Food and beverage stores are open. This includes: supermarkets, convenience stores, farmers’ markets, food pantries, and liquor stores. Why liquor stores? The short answer is they're open in neighboring states, according to Commerce RI. Pharmacies, marijuana compassion centers are open.
Pet supply stores, gas stations and auto repair shops are open too. Hardware stores and larger retailers like Home Depot and Lowes remain open, with shortened hours. 
 Laundromats, banks and credit unions are physically open. Firearm stores are as well. Why gun shops? 
“It should be noted firearm stores in Connecticut and New Hampshire among states most proximate to us, and there’s a variety of states Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, Pennsylvania where such stores remain open,” said Commerce Secretary Stefan Pryor. Pryor also said allowing guns shops to remain open is a safety issue. First time owners can receive onsite instruction.
Non-critical retailers
Arts and crafts shops have closed their physical locations. Furniture store showrooms are close, but online shopping and delivery are available.
 Car dealers are technically closed, except for repair work. A quick poll taken by a reporter on Monday indicated car sales are being done by appointment. 
 Sporting goods shops are closed. So too are home furnishings and department stores. Big box stores like Target and Walmart are open, but also limiting the number of customers inside. Some have wondered why the big retailers are allowing the sale of products carried by smaller retailers, who have been forced to close?
 In Chicopee, Massachusetts police sent out a tweet saying on April 1st, retailers like Walmart, BJ’s, Big Y, Stop and Shop, Home Depot and Price Rite will close off a portion of their stores for non-essential goods. 
 “This means, clothing, toys, electronics, sporting goods, seasonal will be off-limits to shoppers. Only essential areas will be allowed,” said the tweet


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## p_levert (Apr 3, 2020)

New interview with Jamaica Man: https://skiing.substack.com/p/covid-19-and-skiing-podcast-3-magic

I haven't listened yet.  In the summary, Jamaica Man says that the Freedom Pass is dead.  I must admit, it seemed kind of dead.


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## NYDB (Apr 3, 2020)

p_levert said:


> New interview with Jamaica Man: https://skiing.substack.com/p/covid-19-and-skiing-podcast-3-magic
> 
> I haven't listened yet.  In the summary, Jamaica Man says that the Freedom Pass is dead.  I must admit, it seemed kind of dead.



If the freedom pass is dead, I would love for them to do some sort of deal with Bromley.  Something like you get  5 days non saturday / non holiday / non powder day at each others hill with a full seasons pass.


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## p_levert (Apr 3, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> If the freedom pass is dead, I would love for them to do some sort of deal with Bromley.  Something like you get  5 days non saturday / non holiday / non powder day at each others hill with a full seasons pass.



I think not.  It's seems that they are going to offer an Indy Pass add-on for a modest price.  I am curious to see if other Indy Pass ski areas offer the same thing, in particular Bolton.

I gotta say, some sort of partnership with Bromley would make a lot of sense, since Bromley is open 7 days a week and has a lot of snowmaking firepower.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 3, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> If the freedom pass is dead, I would love for them to do some sort of deal with Bromley.  Something like you get  5 days non saturday / non holiday / non powder day at each others hill with a full seasons pass.




Would be surprised to see that, Bromley is corporate, although on a much smaller scale than their other neighbors.  But still technically not an independent ski area


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## ss20 (Apr 3, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Would be surprised to see that, Bromley is corporate, although on a much smaller scale than their other neighbors.  But still technically not an independent ski area



I agree, Bromley is owned by Jiminy Peak which also owns Cranmore.  None of those mountains are on any kind of partnership with outsiders.  I believe they have a pass product between the three of them.


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## Edd (Apr 3, 2020)

ss20 said:


> I agree, Bromley is owned by Jiminy Peak which also owns Cranmore.  None of those mountains are on any kind of partnership with outsiders.  I believe they have a pass product between the three of them.



Cranmore and BW share a pass. Also Cranmore is on the White Mountain Super Pass.


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## NYDB (Apr 3, 2020)

Yeah I don't think it would ever happen, but as someone with a house in the area, it would be a nice option


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## GregoryIsaacs (Apr 3, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> What issues are those?



Log into my account for the first time in a couple weeks....Nice one buddy


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## Do Work (Apr 8, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> If the freedom pass is dead, I would love for them to do some sort of deal with Bromley.  Something like you get  5 days non saturday / non holiday / non powder day at each others hill with a full seasons pass.





I'm lobbying for some kind of "Golden Valley" deal.  I feel like Magic/Stratton/Bromley collectively sharing the same valley has been under-marketed forever.  Together we offer more than just about any one spot and I'd love to see that pushed more for the incredible opportunity for a second home base it really is.  Together we could offer a shocking range of offerings, all within a 10 minute radius.  

*sigh* 

Maybe someday!


----------



## slatham (Apr 8, 2020)

Do Work said:


> I'm lobbying for some kind of "Golden Valley" deal.  I feel like Magic/Stratton/Bromley collectively sharing the same valley has been under-marketed forever.  Together we offer more than just about any one spot and I'd love to see that pushed more for the incredible opportunity for a second home base it really is.  Together we could offer a shocking range of offerings, all within a 10 minute radius.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Maybe someday!



That would be sweet! Obviously works for me. It's so unique to have 3 very different mountains so close. The challenge is that they also have such diverse ownership structures and alliances. Not sure if Alterra/Ikon arrangement allows Stratton to be creative, and thus far Bromley has stayed within the "Fairbanks 3", with limited cross benefits even there (I find it hard to believe this can be sustainable). And of course Magic is Freedom/Indy, though I hear next year is Indy only? But a Golden Triangle Pass works for me.

Hope you, Ashley, the kids, and the Magic crew are well.


----------



## mtl1076 (Apr 8, 2020)

Do Work said:


> I'm lobbying for some kind of "Golden Valley" deal.  I feel like Magic/Stratton/Bromley collectively sharing the same valley has been under-marketed forever.  *Together we offer more than just about any one spot *and I'd love to see that pushed more for the incredible opportunity for a second home base it really is.  Together we could offer a shocking range of offerings, all within a 10 minute radius.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Maybe someday!



I know a certain valley that would argue that point....


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## NYDB (Apr 9, 2020)

"The Golden Triangle Pass" - Shower Yourself in savings! - This thing markets itself


----------



## skithetrees (Apr 18, 2020)

slatham said:


> By discounted I mean less than face value, normal definition, nothing tricky......
> 
> My suggestion is: you present your unused 19/20 prepaid ticket and you buy a day ticket during the 20/21 season for less than the walk up rate. Perhaps 1/2 price if bought during off peak times, smaller discount if at peak/holiday time.  This way you get some value for your otherwise worthless 19/20 ticket, but the mountain gets a bit of revenue.
> 
> Or do view anything as less than full usage next year (or next March) not customer friendly?



According to facebook, they are offering people with unused 4 packs the chance to use them next year from 3/15 through close. Seems like a more than fair compromise.


----------



## slatham (Apr 19, 2020)

skithetrees said:


> According to facebook, they are offering people with unused 4 packs the chance to use them next year from 3/15 through close. Seems like a more than fair compromise.



Yes saw that too. I think it's more than fair. Magic's been more than fair -  actually setting the bar - across the board with this situation.


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 30, 2020)

So can five people get going on the lift again? I'm sure there is so much normal maintenance to get accomplished. I can't imagine sorting this out. Go Jamaicaman, Go Dowork.


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## JamaicaMan (Apr 30, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> So can five people get going on the lift again? I'm sure there is so much normal maintenance to get accomplished. I can't imagine sorting this out. Go Jamaicaman, Go Dowork.



Working with VT Tramway Board to get out-of-state lift contractors approved by govt to work in VT (In this case our lift contractor is based in NH)


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## Do Work (May 4, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> So can five people get going on the lift again? I'm sure there is so much normal maintenance to get accomplished. I can't imagine sorting this out. Go Jamaicaman, Go Dowork.




Our crews are all over our normal maintenance, required testing and advancements for next season and doing great.  With our small and highly trained workforce, safe working conditions are easily maintained and the guys have been slaying their work.  We have put an astronomical amount of effort into putting our minds together for ideas that will go a long way to bolster our ability to deal with contingencies- changes in how we will have to serve our customers in our existing models and also to diversify our offerings in ways that take into account our new reality and the challenges/opportunities it brings.  Anybody who's seen our pass offerings this year should know we are doing everything our extremely creative staff can come up with to salve the wounds COVID is creating.     

Believe me when I say nobody here is taking any of this lightly.  If anything, we are ramping up our responses and being as proactive as we can in this scenario.  We know things will change, and we are doing everything we can to change with it- and even ahead of it where we can.  We're proponents of a "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" school of thought, and we will be as ready as possible once the snow flies!


----------



## p_levert (May 4, 2020)

Do Work said:


> We're proponents of a "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" school of thought, and we will be as ready as possible once the snow flies!



Appreciate the positive attitude that you guys are expressing!

If it was my ski area, I would have a bunch of porta johns ready to go, and some yurts and/or tents.  These are the ultimate tools for maintaining social distance, crowded lodges are the enemy.


----------



## Do Work (May 4, 2020)

Totally, and about 8 pages of other projects, details, changes and guidelines that will definitely improve our adaptability.  The fact that we are an operationally smaller mountain can present challenges of course, but it's also a huge tactical advantage in times like these.  We're also the only mountain around that has any experience with how to successfully limit ticket sales, and that will no doubt play to our hand in developing a system to manage people in whatever capacity the state finds pertinent when that time comes.  We've already laid out dozens of contingencies, along with departmental-specific concerns and ramifications *if* those things come to call, all of which are being addressed by their respective department head as best we can.    

It's going to be a long, strange trip and we're determined to be as ready as humanly possible.


----------



## JamaicaMan (May 4, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Our crews are all over our normal maintenance, required testing and advancements for next season and doing great.  With our small and highly trained workforce, safe working conditions are easily maintained and the guys have been slaying their work.  We have put an astronomical amount of effort into putting our minds together for ideas that will go a long way to bolster our ability to deal with contingencies- changes in how we will have to serve our customers in our existing models and also to diversify our offerings in ways that take into account our new reality and the challenges/opportunities it brings.  Anybody who's seen our pass offerings this year should know we are doing everything our extremely creative staff can come up with to salve the wounds COVID is creating.
> 
> Believe me when I say nobody here is taking any of this lightly.  If anything, we are ramping up our responses and being as proactive as we can in this scenario.  We know things will change, and we are doing everything we can to change with it- and even ahead of it where we can.  We're proponents of a "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" school of thought, and we will be as ready as possible once the snow flies!



Snow is flying this week again *


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## Do Work (May 4, 2020)

JamaicaMan said:


> Snow is flying this week again &#55358;&#56631;*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone





Hahaha HEY!


----------



## Do Work (Jun 22, 2020)

Y'ALL SEEN THE NOOZ?  

People are picking up what we're putting down in a big way.   

https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic...Sj5S5Ax8itIWaxjYDPxfsXXY62UPt-JG-ikGvxaLVLoUY


----------



## 180 (Jun 23, 2020)

do work said:


> y'all seen the nooz?
> 
> People are picking up what we're putting down in a big way.
> 
> https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic...sj5s5ax8itiwaxjydpxfsxxy62upt-jg-ikgvxalvlouy



wow!


----------



## slatham (Jun 23, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Y'ALL SEEN THE NOOZ?
> 
> People are picking up what we're putting down in a big way.
> 
> https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic...Sj5S5Ax8itIWaxjYDPxfsXXY62UPt-JG-ikGvxaLVLoUY



Great news for sure. And Stuart has done a great job covering this whole situation and especially the market-leading action from Magic. Can't wait for snow to fly! We are in the countdown - daylight decreasing each day now. In the meantime its time for disc golf and outside beverages.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jun 23, 2020)

One other cool idea was the ability to snag a pass with half down and the rest in September. I was going to buy a pass anyway but it helps with cash flow.


----------



## Killingtime (Jun 24, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Y'ALL SEEN THE NOOZ?
> 
> People are picking up what we're putting down in a big way.
> 
> https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic...Sj5S5Ax8itIWaxjYDPxfsXXY62UPt-JG-ikGvxaLVLoUY



Yeah you guys are doing a great job getting the word out there. After selling my place in K-town last year, I spent this winter exploring. I  heard good things about Magic and wanted to try it but always wound up passing on it for one of the other places nearby. One of the main reasons I picked up the Indy Pass was because Magic was on it. I had a really great time and look forward to going back. Marketing will only get you so far though. At the end of the day you have to deliver a good experience, especially in the competitive southern Vt area. Magic has been doing that and people are noticing. Barring any new Covid type disaster, I think Magic is set for a break out season. New lift, outdoor eating area, etc. Just don't get rid of the tow rope, it's good to practice every once in awhile.


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## WoodCore (Jul 13, 2020)

Yes!!!


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## urungus (Jul 14, 2020)

Will the “new” Black Chair run any faster than the beloved old Red Chair ?


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 17, 2020)

urungus said:


> Will the “new” Black Chair run any faster than the beloved old Red Chair ?



It’s a got a few more horses under the hood with the new drive, but to some extent the speed will be regulated by the Tramway authority. Will have an idea once it’s inspected as to the exact speed it will be run at for ongoing operations.


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## amf (Jul 18, 2020)

urungus said:


> Will the “new” Black Chair run any faster than the beloved old Red Chair ?


I dunno... I always like a slower ride after lapping Goniff Glade or Twilite Zone. And one thing I liked about the old chair was its relative protection from the wind.


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## dblskifanatic (Jul 18, 2020)

amf said:


> I dunno... I always like a slower ride after lapping Goniff Glade or Twilite Zone. And one thing I liked about the old chair was its relative protection from the wind.



You burn out those legs faster!


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## urungus (Jul 24, 2020)

Handle tow is getting moved to the top of Little Dipper, tubing area on Hocus Pocus replaced with expanded terrain park.

Reposting today’s Alpine update



we had been doing a lot of planning which we've now  been announcing this week via social media as we begin to take concrete action on the mountain. Our vision is to create more access and better utilize existing space for young families to learn, grow and have fun here. We started a couple of year ago by bringing back the old beginner area near the Trailside Condos with a new conveyor carpet lift installed on Little Dipper trail (Nelson Family Learning Area). Then we finished building the Green Lift up to the mid-mountain to access that great intermediate and novice terrain over on the lower East Side without having to go all the way to the summit. Plus, we just finished fixing the snowmaking line on Lower Magic Carpet to create an easier, groomed way down off the Green Lift. However, there was still a big step to go from riding the carpet lift trail to going up the Green Lift for novices, given our steeper terrain in general, as our fine snowsports instructor staff pointed out many times to me. Also, the conveyor carpet space for learning can get a bit crowded on bigger weekends.

So to enhance and complete our beginner/learn-to ski experience and create all the stepping stones for success for family skiing, we are moving the terrain park handle tow over to the beginner area above the carpet lift to access both old beginner trails over there. Snowmaking will be reconnected/repaired there as well so we have plenty of finely groomed conditions from top to bottom of the beginner area which dates back to 1964 when a short chairlift serviced it. So with modest cost, we are reclaiming a historic area of Magic to help families #growupmagic!





Looking down and up from the new handle two line

Okay, Geoff, but you just lost a fun little terrain park. Well, one of the things we wanted to do was expand our little terrain park and have it, like our beginner area, in a more protected, less trafficked spot. Our answer: move it right into the snow tubing park which already has a handle tow lift. While it is tough financially to see the tubing park discontinued, our mission is to create a better ski and ride experience at Magic first and foremost. The old tubing park is perfect as it is set off away from the main trail, is viewable from the base lodge, and...has lights! The new terrain park will have more room for more lanes, features and moderate level jumps. The handle tow makes lapping it quick and easy. And, the existing lights allow Magic to be the only park in the area skiing into darkness. Kids from other resorts can be somewhere else all day and hit us up after their lifts close from 4p-7p. Plus we can do a bunch of evening rail jam comps. I don't know about you, but this is all going to be fun to watch from the BLT deck and lodge.





New terrain park with surface lift and lights

Moving the terrain park to the snow tubing area also allows us to take down some of the big berm at the end needed for the tubing park, so we can provide easier access from the East Side over to the new Black Line Quad.

So there you have it. In a few short years, we've added a bunch of family-friendly lifts and terrain to help bring back Magic to more families. But the biggest draw for families coming here remains all of you. The friendliest bunch of skiers and riders on earth!

____________

People are giving an arm and a leg for Magic. We have seen some good tattoos lately...artwork on the Red Lift is "magical"


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## urungus (Jul 24, 2020)




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## hughconway (Jul 25, 2020)

Sounds like Magic has some ambitious plans that will really improve the overall experience and make the place more family friendly.  Great work.  The pessimist in me fears that they may be biting off more than they can chew.  I hope I am wrong, but you guys were all calling me crazy last october when I told y'all that there was a 0.0% chance of the new quad opening during the 19-20 season.


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## sugarbushskier (Jul 25, 2020)

All I can say is "well done Magic, well done".  This is what we need in the ski industry.  Creativity, smart financial planning and marketing a mountain that has so much to offer.


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## machski (Jul 25, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Sounds like Magic has some ambitious plans that will really improve the overall experience and make the place more family friendly.  Great work.  The pessimist in me fears that they may be biting off more than they can chew.  I hope I am wrong, but you guys were all calling me crazy last october when I told y'all that there was a 0.0% chance of the new quad opening during the 19-20 season.


That lift required outside contractors who fell behind, not Magic's fault.  These plans are easily within Magic's abilities to do themselves, very confident this will happen for this season.  

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## Newpylong (Jul 25, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Sounds like Magic has some ambitious plans that will really improve the overall experience and make the place more family friendly.  Great work.  The pessimist in me fears that they may be biting off more than they can chew.  I hope I am wrong, but you guys were all calling me crazy last october when I told y'all that there was a 0.0% chance of the new quad opening during the 19-20 season.



Moving a handle tow and reconnecting a valve station and pipe repairs are well within most (and definitely Magic's) inhouse experience and a single off season timeframe.

Assuming prompt Act 250 and Tramway board approval..


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## hughconway (Jul 25, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Moving a handle tow and reconnecting a valve station and pipe repairs are well within most (and definitely Magic's) inhouse experience and a single off season timeframe.
> 
> Assuming prompt Act 250 and Tramway board approval..



I truly hope you're right.  But the new quad still isn't done, there is probably a reason why the snowmaking pond expansion that was due 2-3 years ago hasn't been spoken of this year, there are other projects going on around the mountain and even though the map they posted looked like it would be part of an act 250 filing, I haven't been able to locate one approving that surface lift move.

I truly hope it pans out for them, but they also have a track record - much improved in the past few years under new ownership - of making promises and not delivering.  It's nearly august.  At this point I'm really just rooting for them to finish that quad and get it inspected before Thanksgiving.  IMO, that will be a small miracle in and of itself. Awesome plan moving that rope tow, but one step at a time!


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## Newpylong (Jul 26, 2020)

The quad and tow are not mutually exclusive. Pjister is handling the quad install, Magic can do the tow themselves at the same time and quickly. When we moved ours while I had an engineer build the plans for the new location we dug the holes for the pads, dug and began electrical, etc. The tramway board will promptly approve a handle tow move. It's literally as simple as removing the handles, loosening the tension chains, taking the rope off. Building the simple slab forms for each end and having them poured. Disconnecting the electrical on one end and the stop gate/controls at the other, moving the terminals with a tractor into new position and reassemble. Out of all lift moves its the simplest.


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## slatham (Jul 26, 2020)

It is curious that there is no Act 250 filing for the handle tow move. Maybe it’s just not in the database yet due to some Covid related slow down. I can’t believe one would’ be needed. And I agree it would be an easy move for the Magic ops crew to complete themselves. 

The Quad is looking good and it would appear the next, and last, major effort is to install the cable. It is sitting at the base ready to go......

From what I understand, the pond project entails significant logistical challenges in coordination with various VT agencies not to mention contractors etc. I have to think the events of this past spring delayed this enough to make it impossible to finish this off season. Keep in mind too that from a practical matter, while I am sure all things equal Magic wants the pond done and to have the water, with the Thompsonburg Creek pump house, they have a good supply of water and to my knowledge had no issues last year with running out of water.


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## JamaicaMan (Jul 27, 2020)

Act 250 signed off on the project without a filing given the non-invasive nature of it. 

Pfister is on the Quad project so it will be done by the fall unless something catastrophic happens in testing/inspection. We will be doing the handle tow move and repair of pipe. Separate projects by different crews.

The pond was put off this year as it’s a major capital expense and with the uncertainty of this covid winter, you don’t want to risk spending huge amounts of capital (especially when we are doing so on Quad).

The pond as it is with the new pump at brook should “fill” our needs for this season.


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## Do Work (Jul 29, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I truly hope you're right.  But the new quad still isn't done, there is probably a reason why the snowmaking pond expansion that was due 2-3 years ago hasn't been spoken of this year, there are other projects going on around the mountain and even though the map they posted looked like it would be part of an act 250 filing, I haven't been able to locate one approving that surface lift move.
> 
> I truly hope it pans out for them, but they also have a track record - much improved in the past few years under new ownership - of making promises and not delivering.  It's nearly august.  At this point I'm really just rooting for them to finish that quad and get it inspected before Thanksgiving.  IMO, that will be a small miracle in and of itself. Awesome plan moving that rope tow, but one step at a time!




Understandable concerns, and I'll try to address them all directly.  

Final details of the Quad are being worked on as we speak, and there is no reason whatsoever to think that it won't be completed for this season.    

The Dam was pushed off until next year as it was a large CAPEX project, and we are trying to play it safe & smart financially with COVID uncertainties looming- but is at the top of the list when the smoke clears.  Nothing wrong with the plans or project, just a strategic move and we've spoken on that several times over the summer.      

We formally approached Act 250 about the handle tow move and they very quickly (literally within a couple hours) gave official approval for a non-permitted move since it's already permitted and registered to be on the premises, has no footings to be moved or dug, electrically is being moved to another leg on the same transformer, and all ground work and tree cleanup needed there is in line with our normal trail maintenance work.  There's even snowmaking pipe (albeit old and likely in need of repair) over there already.  All work is being done in-house save for the small electrical tie-in from the carpet shack which is a non-issue for 250.  All Tramway need sis engineering specs for slope, basic design & counterweight, followed of course by a live test but that's about the simplest process imaginable.  It is not a large undertaking.

All in all, it's a great project to take on for this timeline.  Relatively short money to gain all that space, user friendliness and progression.  Also as financially sad as I am to see tubing go away, it was the biggest headache to operate on the mountain and I'm hopeful that the night park will see some heavy usage too.  Lots of bigger mountains around that don't have anything to offer at night, so the potential there is considerable and IMO we just need to market it properly.  


All in all it's been a pretty crazy summer but the guys are killing it in every arm of Ops despite the unique challenges 2020 has brought.  I can't even imagine how well we'd be doing if we didn't have all this COVID mess to deal with, but that's a waste of brain space...  We are way out in front, and everybody is firing on all cylinders to make sure we are as ready as possible for whatever this season ends up looking like.  We've got a ton of small fun things to share with the public as the calendar crumbles, and will keep updating people on developments as we knock down our goals.  

It's such a weird year, but we have got a great plan coming together.  I'll try to keep people informed as best I can when I'm not snorkeling in mud rasslin' pipe or diggin out from under a paperworkalanche during a visit to my office.


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## Newpylong (Jul 29, 2020)

Take some video when you attempt to charge the water lines over there. When we charged a line that hasn't been used in 19 years this past fall it was one for the books.


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## kancamagus (Jul 29, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Take some video when you attempt to charge the water lines over there. When we charged a line that hasn't been used in 19 years this past fall it was one for the books.



Like this, or worse?


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## Newpylong (Jul 29, 2020)

More like:


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## Dickc (Jul 29, 2020)

Nah, more like what happened at Stratton a few years back!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6PwZB_AK9c


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## slatham (Jul 29, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Understandable concerns, and I'll try to address them all directly.
> 
> Final details of the Quad are being worked on as we speak, and there is no reason whatsoever to think that it won't be completed for this season.
> 
> ...



Great update DW (and earlier, JM) - thanks. During a summer when many areas, even those of the evil empire and the borg, are sitting back literally watching the grass grow, Magic pushes forward. Can’t wait to see the volunteer day schedule. August is Saturday, time to start thinking about the upcoming season!


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## Do Work (Jul 30, 2020)

slatham said:


> Great update DW (and earlier, JM) - thanks. During a summer when many areas, even those of the evil empire and the borg, are sitting back literally watching the grass grow, Magic pushes forward. Can’t wait to see the volunteer day schedule. August is Saturday, time to start thinking about the upcoming season!





Always a pleasure.  We definitely dialed back on a few things such as the Dam, but we shifted that focus to bolster our ability to adapt to whatever comes of the uncertainty ahead and improve the reliability of existing infrastructure for the most part.  This handle tow project is a total bonus, and well ahead of our long term project schedule to expand that area but due to the dam being pushed back it gave an opportunity elsewhere.  Lots of cool details still to be revealed too, we are looking at this crazy time as an opportunity- a weird one, but there is ALWAYS an opportunity to be had.  The program we offered that jumped our pass sales in a massive way is a good example of how we are trying to turn this into a positive development and really showing our customers what's important to us---  THEM!  

Volly days schedule will ALL be in the Hallows unless we make insane progress the first two days.  Lots of cleanup needed in there.  I've got some other projects I'd love to go after but time will tell.


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## slatham (Jul 30, 2020)

Do Work said:


> Always a pleasure.  We definitely dialed back on a few things such as the Dam, but we shifted that focus to bolster our ability to adapt to whatever comes of the uncertainty ahead and improve the reliability of existing infrastructure for the most part.  This handle tow project is a total bonus, and well ahead of our long term project schedule to expand that area but due to the dam being pushed back it gave an opportunity elsewhere.  Lots of cool details still to be revealed too, we are looking at this crazy time as an opportunity- a weird one, but there is ALWAYS an opportunity to be had.  The program we offered that jumped our pass sales in a massive way is a good example of how we are trying to turn this into a positive development and really showing our customers what's important to us---  THEM!
> 
> Volly days schedule will ALL be in the Hallows unless we make insane progress the first two days.  Lots of cleanup needed in there.  I've got some other projects I'd love to go after but time will tell.



Hallows you say? I think we should also venture into the various Narnia’s, Glowstick, Asland, etc etc. And as I’ve been saying for a couple years now, Betwix needs to be pushed back to its rightful borders. Always happy to help, and if this work from home thing continues, they’ll be a lot of work from VT which means more time in the woods with saw and loppers!


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## ne_skier (Aug 9, 2020)

New Alpine Update out, thoughts on a potential reservation system?

https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/


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## hughconway (Aug 29, 2020)

JamaicaMan said:


> Act 250 signed off on the project without a filing given the non-invasive nature of it.
> 
> Pfister is on the Quad project so it will be done by the fall unless something catastrophic happens in testing/inspection. We will be doing the handle tow move and repair of pipe. Separate projects by different crews.
> 
> ...





Do Work said:


> Understandable concerns, and I'll try to address them all directly.
> 
> Final details of the Quad are being worked on as we speak, and there is no reason whatsoever to think that it won't be completed for this season.
> 
> ...



Great news, and kudos to Magic for being open and honest about what is going on.  There are a lot of people rooting for you guys to pull off all that you've tee'd up.  Sure hope that rope gets spliced in the next week or so before I have to go back to making wildly accurate prognostications about the completion timeline. 

How does the removal of this dam on the brook where you guys pull your water to refill the snowmaking pond affect your access to water?

https://www.reformer.com/stories/trout-passage-reopened-by-removing-dam-at-magic-mountain,612459


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## JamaicaMan (Aug 29, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Great news, and kudos to Magic for being open and honest about what is going on.  There are a lot of people rooting for you guys to pull off all that you've tee'd up.  Sure hope that rope gets spliced in the next week or so before I have to go back to making wildly accurate prognostications about the completion timeline.
> 
> How does the removal of this dam on the brook where you guys pull your water to refill the snowmaking pond affect your access to water?
> 
> https://www.reformer.com/stories/trout-passage-reopened-by-removing-dam-at-magic-mountain,612459



Our weir board and brook pump system is unaffected by the dam removal.

Splicer has been booked for 9/17-18. November 15 target date for completion and fully load tested certification.[emoji120]


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## slatham (Aug 29, 2020)

JamaicaMan said:


> Splicer has been booked for 9/17-18. November 15 target date for completion and fully load tested certification.[emoji120]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



We all have our fingers and skis crossed for good luck!


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## njdiver85 (Sep 1, 2020)

Current adult unlimited pass at Magic is $679.  Is this price set to rise again at some point, and when is the last day you can buy a season pass there?  Also, the site makes mention of early season prices with full prices crossed out in grey, or something like that, but I'm not seeing that.


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 2, 2020)

I think that is the final price. Just a guess from previous years. I just paid the second half of my discounted pass today. Plus I paid for my locker last week. Now just trying to lose weight and get in shape.


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 2, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> Current adult unlimited pass at Magic is $679.  Is this price set to rise again at some point, and when is the last day you can buy a season pass there?  Also, the site makes mention of early season prices with full prices crossed out in grey, or something like that, but I'm not seeing that.



Pass prices go up on 10/16 to regular in-season price. $679 adult will go to $779 


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## urungus (Sep 3, 2020)

There are 5 non-gladed trails I haven’t had the nerve to try yet, in what order do you think they should be attempted ? 

Red Line - seems doable from the Red chair with sufficient snow (I’ve already cut over from Black Line and done the bottom quarter of the double black section)
Magician - short trail but intimidating steep boulder strewn opening
Black Magic - narrow and cliffy from what I can see looking up from where Broomstick and Witch come in
Green Line - looks pretty steep from the Green Chair
Pitch Black - new trail


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## NYDB (Sep 3, 2020)

Pb, gl, m, rl, bm


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## NYDB (Sep 3, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> New Alpine Update out, thoughts on a potential reservation system?
> 
> https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/
> 
> ...



How is that reservation system going to work for powder days?


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 3, 2020)

Tickets and reservations can be made online for a powder day opening as soon as we know it’s happening (usually the day before opening and the day of the Pow day). Instead of buying at ticket office, you simply buy online and pick up your tickets at the mtn




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## NYDB (Sep 3, 2020)

JamaicaMan said:


> Tickets and reservations can be made online for a powder day opening as soon as we know it’s happening (usually the day before opening and the day of the Pow day). Instead of buying at ticket office, you simply buy online and pick up your tickets at the mtn
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Do full passholders or powder passholders get priority somehow on powder days (you indicate on your website that passholders will get priority normally)?

Are you guys still planning on DEVO?  My daughter has been in the past couple of years and she really had a good time.


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 3, 2020)

Red Line - You have done the tougher part. I just go over to skiers left at the cliff band
Magician - This is easier than it looks if you don't mind steep. Do not go over to the right. I don't think those are boulders but rather frozen springs.
Black Magic - Above my skill level. Never done it, except from the traverse off Witch.
Green Line - Fun if enough snow for the one tight turn near the start. I think maybe this was opened up a bit?
Pitch Black - Never done it. It must be darn steep straight down the fall line. Maybe less cliff bands than Black Magic?


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 4, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> Do full passholders or powder passholders get priority somehow on powder days (you indicate on your website that passholders will get priority normally)?
> 
> Are you guys still planning on DEVO?  My daughter has been in the past couple of years and she really had a good time.



Not going to be an issue getting reservations on a midweek powder day. Have plenty of room...


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## slatham (Sep 7, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> Red Line - You have done the tougher part. I just go over to skiers left at the cliff band
> Magician - This is easier than it looks if you don't mind steep. Do not go over to the right. I don't think those are boulders but rather frozen springs.
> Black Magic - Above my skill level. Never done it, except from the traverse off Witch.
> Green Line - Fun if enough snow for the one tight turn near the start. I think maybe this was opened up a bit?
> Pitch Black - Never done it. It must be darn steep straight down the fall line. Maybe less cliff bands than Black Magic?



With the recent widening, and given its short, I'd say start with Green Line. Its no steeper than the others IMHO. If you can't navigate the cliff band and rest of Greenline, I'd stay away from the others.....


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## hughconway (Sep 17, 2020)

Does anyone know if the splicing began today as scheduled?  I tried looking at their webcam this afternoon as I believe it looks over the bottom terminal of the new chairlift but the webcam was offline.


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## chuckstah (Sep 17, 2020)

It was!  From Instagram. Few more pics there. 

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## jaytrem (Sep 18, 2020)

Lookin' good!

Should be getting an Indy Pass this year, so the plans are for at least 2 days at Magic.  Pinball machine working these days?


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## JamaicaMan (Sep 18, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Lookin' good!
> 
> Should be getting an Indy Pass this year, so the plans are for at least 2 days at Magic.  Pinball machine working these days?



Important update: pinball machine back in its Eagles Nest home with one of Magic’s investors. Word is that it now works.  


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## ne_skier (Oct 20, 2020)

Anyone have any idea of when chairs are supposed to go up on Black? It’s my interpretation that chair hanging and then state mandated load testing would be really the last major things that need to be done


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## Dickc (Oct 20, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> Anyone have any idea of when chairs are supposed to go up on Black? It’s my interpretation that chair hanging and then state mandated load testing would be really the last major things that need to be done
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Last I knew, they were still assembling those chairs as they rebuilt AND regalvanized them.  They also needed to align the sheave trains and test out all of the safety switches on all towers.  All of that takes time.


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## slatham (Oct 22, 2020)

Full update on the Alpine Update (social media and the Magic web site) but latest on Black:

The Quad Lift is having the chairs assembled over the next two weeks for placing on the lift line. We are waiting a bit on our electric drive contractor to finish some other projects so the Quad drive can be completed for running the line and doing sheave train work and communications line testing. We still expect the Quad Lift for a December opening.


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## Do Work (Oct 29, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> Pitch Black - Never done it. It must be darn steep straight down the fall line. Maybe less cliff bands than Black Magic?



Super steep after the initial rollover, with a small 6ish foot send skier's left right at tower 14- but two big non-mandatory cliffs on skier's right starting about halfway between tower 13 & 14.  Probably 10-15' in height with decent landing pitch.  Also the very last boulder on skier's right at tower 13 looks to be a work road gap jump with enough speed, but only time and sendage will tell.


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## hughconway (Nov 11, 2020)

I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:

0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.

50% chance it's done by the time the snow melts in the spring.  I actually suspect it may be complete by the end of the season, but won't get load tested, inspected and approved to carry customers until the 2021-2022 season. 

If my prediction comes true (again!) they are going to take a MAJOR PR hit from this failure to deliver.  They're re-playing the same script from last year - It'll be done by opening day....er.... Christmas....I mean President's Day.....OK, we'll finish it up over the summer.  All of the attention and goodwill they have generated with their organized COVID response will be gone, and then some.

2 on, 2 out, bottom of the 9th.  Team Magic is down by 2 runs.  A walk off homer is required to save the day.  I hope I am wrong and they can pull it off.


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## machski (Nov 11, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:
> 
> 0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.
> 
> ...


They will have bigger issues with Vermont going back to full quarantine requirements for ALL out of state visitors IMHO.  Given that, they may not need BLQ this year either.  This is not work the area can do on its own, they are stuck with the contractor.  Granted they could have contracted L-P for the work, but my guess is that may have proved cost prohibitive for them


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## NYDB (Nov 11, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:
> 
> 0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.
> 
> ...



Do you have some insider/local knowledge here or are you just spitballing?

IMO They'll definitely need this quad over the holidays unless there is no snow or VT just shuts skiing down.


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## skiur (Nov 11, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:
> 
> 0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.
> 
> ...



The whole ski industry is down right now and you wanna kick a small place with no corporate backing doing it's best in a fucked up time.  Classy.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 11, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:
> 
> 0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.
> 
> ...





hughconway said:


> I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:
> 
> 0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.
> 
> ...


Remember this? LOL.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 11, 2020)

skiur said:


> The whole ski industry is down right now and you wanna kick a small place with no corporate backing doing it's best in a fucked up time.  Classy.


He must have some kind of ax to grind with Magic. Been a Negative Nancy about it since the beginning. It'll be done when the contractor finishes it, and the State inspects it. Probably not much of that is under Magic's managerial control in the current conditions.




> The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry​


----------



## Killingtime (Nov 11, 2020)

machski said:


> They will have bigger issues with Vermont going back to full quarantine requirements for ALL out of state visitors IMHO.  Given that, they may not need BLQ this year either.  This is not work the area can do on its own, they are stuck with the contractor.  Granted they could have contracted L-P for the work, but my guess is that may have proved cost prohibitive for them


I had a great time at Magic last season without the quad. Would it be nice? Sure. I don't believe it will be a PR nightmare with all the other things going on. I'll be willing to cut them some slack. I think you are right that the Vermont restrictions will be a bigger issue. I've taken all my planned VT trips off the calendar and have been booking trips within NY State instead (where I have residency). I was thinking about booking a hotel near the NY/VT border and day tripping into Magic but I'm not sure if that is even possible now. Maybe things will be different in two months but I'm not counting on it.


----------



## slatham (Nov 11, 2020)

hughconway said:


> I've been biting my tongue for a few weeks now but it's finally time to make the call:
> 
> 0% chance Magic's 'new' quad will carry paying customers in 2020.
> 
> ...



Hugh do you have any inside info that they have hit a snag? 

Given today is Nov 11th and need is for Christmas holiday I'd say they are in the 8th inning and the game is tied. But I am sure Geoff wishes they were prepping for a load test this month.


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 11, 2020)

Gosh who cares?  It'll be done when it's done.


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Nov 11, 2020)

Even when built, I will probably still prefer to take red. The ride up in that chair is spiritual


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## RustyGroomer (Nov 12, 2020)

I love how the ones who bitch are the ones who never ski there.  I agree Gregoryisaacs.  Red Chair pic seems appropriate here..


----------



## Tin (Nov 12, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> I love how the ones who bitch are the ones who never ski there.  I agree Gregoryisaacs.  Red Chair pic seems appropriate here..



Like it has always been. Capacity limits + travel restrictions is it really that important it gets done this year at all? As long as Red spins who cares. The mountain is in a great place and the community continues to grow.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 12, 2020)

I agree that it’s not too big of a deal and honestly it’s just a joke at this point. Magic took a long time to install green and I assume it will be the same with black. What can you do.


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## skithetrees (Nov 12, 2020)

slatham said:


> Hugh do you have any inside info that they have hit a snag?
> 
> Given today is Nov 11th and need is for Christmas holiday I'd say they are in the 8th inning and the game is tied. But I am sure Geoff wishes they were prepping for a load test this month.


There is no chance they will need this lift for christmas this year. Absent a big snow, the place is comparatively dead because everyone chases trail count. It would be a great accomplishment, but they would just be padding lift capacity at this point. I hope they get it done, but I fear they won’t need it all season this year. I hope that I am wrong.


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## skithetrees (Nov 12, 2020)

RustyGroomer said:


> I love how the ones who bitch are the ones who never ski there.  I agree Gregoryisaacs.  Red Chair pic seems appropriate here..


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## hughconway (Nov 12, 2020)

Magic won't need the new chair this season?  Are you people high?  It would give them a massive advantage at being able to stay open & compliant with COVID regulations.  A double chair has to load singles for people who don't live together.  2 people take up 2 chairs.  With a quad, they can be on opposite sides of the same chair.  Running both chairs might allow them to provide 'normal' capacity.  Remember, lift lines become a much bigger challenge when everyone needs to be spaced 6' apart.

To be quite honest, there really is no reasonable scenerio where Magic "doens't need the quad chair this year" unless you are trying to argue that they will not open for business due to COVID.


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## skithetrees (Nov 12, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Magic won't need the new chair this season?  Are you people high?  It would give them a massive advantage at being able to stay open & compliant with COVID regulations.  A double chair has to load singles for people who don't live together.  2 people take up 2 chairs.  With a quad, they can be on opposite sides of the same chair.  Running both chairs might allow them to provide 'normal' capacity.  Remember, lift lines become a much bigger challenge when everyone needs to be spaced 6' apart.
> 
> To be quite honest, there really is no reasonable scenerio where Magic "doens't need the quad chair this year" unless you are trying to argue that they will not open for business due to COVID.


Have you ever been there for Christmas week?  Where do you think all these people are coming from?


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## njdiver85 (Nov 13, 2020)

Aren't pass sales up 75% this year?  I think it will be a little busier than normal!


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## skithetrees (Nov 13, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> Aren't pass sales up 75% this year?  I think it will be a little busier than normal!


I hope so!


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## machski (Nov 13, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> Aren't pass sales up 75% this year?  I think it will be a little busier than normal!


Depends who the pass buyers were.  If many were out of state, then crowds won't likely materialize in the first half of the season the way the State is behaving currently.


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## drjeff (Nov 13, 2020)

The other thing that often lead to some of the "crowded" days at Magic, USSSA races and an occasional college race, as of now just aren't going to be happening, up until atleast March, if at all, this season.

I know that the Mount Snow Ski Club that my kids are a part of, and of which Magic is in the same VT council as, has told us, and confirmed through the state association VARA, that there won't be any intermountain sanctioned races this season. For my family, what we have been told, is that the more limited number of kids on the race team this year (1 coach and the same 5 athletes per group every weekend) will be training and then having only races within the athletes of their own Club, this season, through March minimum.  

So on those 4 to maybe 6 typical days a season where Magic hosted a race, and had between racers, coaches and parents probably another 250-300 people at the mountain for the race, those days seemingly won't be happening or adding to the crowds on what would usually be a "busier" Magic day over the course of the season


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## slatham (Nov 13, 2020)

drjeff said:


> The other thing that often lead to some of the "crowded" days at Magic, USSSA races and an occasional college race, as of now just aren't going to be happening, up until atleast March, if at all, this season.
> 
> I know that the Mount Snow Ski Club that my kids are a part of, and of which Magic is in the same VT council as, has told us, and confirmed through the state association VARA, that there won't be any intermountain sanctioned races this season. For my family, what we have been told, is that the more limited number of kids on the race team this year (1 coach and the same 5 athletes per group every weekend) will be training and then having only races within the athletes of their own Club, this season, through March minimum.
> 
> So on those 4 to maybe 6 typical days a season where Magic hosted a race, and had between racers, coaches and parents probably another 250-300 people at the mountain for the race, those days seemingly won't be happening or adding to the crowds on what would usually be a "busier" Magic day over the course of the season


Sorry to say sports leagues have been banned in VT.

FYI - BOC had already decided to not offer a weekend program.

And yes Magic needs the Quad as soon as their is decent snow coverage and nobody can say when that night be.


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## ne_skier (Nov 13, 2020)

Here's a photo album (Not mine) of some pics of the Quad's liftline taken about a month ago




__





						Collin's Northeast Skiing
					






					www.facebook.com


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## drjeff (Nov 13, 2020)

slatham said:


> Sorry to say sports leagues have been banned in VT.
> 
> FYI - BOC had already decided to not offer a weekend program.
> 
> And yes Magic needs the Quad as soon as their is decent snow coverage and nobody can say when that night be.


In reading the Gov's directives issued today, I am curious if his exemption for some supervised school athletic activities pertains to in school gym classes or is it a carve out for the private ski academies to continue as planned with their training activities? 

Just awaiting the likely email about my daughter's program being suspended, and the the subsequent $2050 refund on my VISA card from Vail for her program/training fees.

If that's the case, and the roughly program number limited to 100 athletes this year, add in presumed similar program sizes at Okemo and Stowe, and Gov Scott, just with respect to Vail, and that's over $600k of refunds that the Governor just basically told them they have to make, and that doesn't even include the non race/competition youth programs that are also under this order, and then add in all the other non Vail owned resorts and their affected youth programs in VT, and that's a significant economic impact that an industry already looking at a very challenging revenue season, is looking at.

Heck, take a small area such as Cochran's where so much of their business IS centered around youth programs and racing, and Governor Scott's announcement today has to be devastating


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## slatham (Nov 13, 2020)

drjeff said:


> In reading the Gov's directives issued today, I am curious if his exemption for some supervised school athletic activities pertains to in school gym classes or is it a carve out for the private ski academies to continue as planned with their training activities?
> 
> Just awaiting the likely email about my daughter's program being suspended, and the the subsequent $2050 refund on my VISA card from Vail for her program/training fees.
> 
> ...


Good point on the school related programs. BOC email was specific to weekend program - no mention of weekday program with Burr Burton.

Of course this is all moot for another couple of weeks (at least) until areas can open enough terrain to allow training. If I can be wildly optimistic maybe the situation is  better in 4 weeks time........


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## Phish'83 (Nov 13, 2020)

slatham said:


> Sorry to say sports leagues have been banned in VT.
> 
> FYI - BOC had already decided to not offer a weekend program.
> 
> And yes Magic needs the Quad as soon as their is decent snow coverage and nobody can say when that night be.


The BOC is in a difference place. Being an "Outing Club" and not insured by Bromley or the Fairbanks Group, they need to take the high road in case of an Outbreak that can be traced back to them.


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## WoodCore (Nov 18, 2020)

Yes!!!


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## ne_skier (Nov 19, 2020)

WoodCore said:


> Yes!!!


Getting me excited...
Never been to Magic early in the season, what do they usually open first?


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## Newpylong (Nov 19, 2020)

Upper Magic Carpet to Trick to Wand to Show Off.


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## slatham (Nov 19, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> Getting me excited...
> Never been to Magic early in the season, what do they usually open first?


Not a usual year so need Do Work or Jamaica Man to chime in. My real question is do they open with just Green, or wait until both Red and Green can run?

In recent years the typical trails were: UMC/Medium/Wand/Show Off. Then Hocus Pocus. Magic Carpet "Through the Woods". Trick. (In the old days MC/Tick/Wand/Show Off).

I would expect Lower Magic Carpet to be in the early season mix too as they did significant repair this summer and testing this fall. Where it comes in on the priority list is a good question.

Of course a nice dump would help!


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## MG Skier (Nov 19, 2020)

Fond memories of early season dumps at Magic!  Happy to see their snow making efforts!


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## thetrailboss (Nov 21, 2020)

In case any of you are wondering, Magic sold 75% more season passes this year than average.  They even beat Jay’s average.  That’s pretty impressive!



> “People want to be able to ski, and passholders can come and ski without a hard reservation,” he said. The southern Vermont resort usually sells about 1,000 season passes each year and this year sold 1,750.  About 10% of Magic’s day pass skiers in a typical year are Vermonters, he said.





> “If they’re from an impacted state that is forced to quarantine, it’s not really a manageable solution for them,” said Steve Wright, the resort’s general manager. Jay Peak usually sells about 1,600 season passes each year, but because half of its skiers usually come from Canada — and won’t this year, because the border is closed — those pass sales were down about 30% this year, he said.











						Quarantine is expected to change the face of Vermont skiing this season
					

Many people who purchased season passes are now asking for refunds or credits because the quarantine will stop them from traveling to Vermont to ski.



					vtdigger.org


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## hughconway (Nov 22, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> In case any of you are wondering, Magic sold 75% more season passes this year than average.  They even beat Jay’s average.  That’s pretty impressive!



Very impressive.  It's also what makes all of the 'they only need one summit chair' statements that much more absurd.  With a double chair that'll have to be loaded single most of the time a 6' socially distanced lift line might reach half way up the mountain.  I bet the claimed completion of the summit quad was a significant consideration in many of those new pass purchases.

Does anyone know if they got the drive motor installed/connected this past week as expected?


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## Newpylong (Nov 22, 2020)

There is still another double next to that one. There are only really lines when there are race events, which aren't happening this year. The quad will be nice for opening bell, but not needed. 

The electric drive is operating.

I counter bet by and large purchases were not made with any "claimed completion" in mind.


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## skimagic (Nov 22, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> There is still another double next to that one. There are only really lines when there are race events, which aren't happening this year. The quad will be nice for opening bell, but not needed.
> 
> The electric drive is operating.
> 
> I counter bet by and large purchases were not made with any "claimed completion" in mind.


The same claim was made last year -not having the new chair on line last season would piss people off leading to a loss in sales this year.  

 Riding the red chair is well worth a 10 minute wait.  Its just like MRG, its part of the mountain experience in terms of snow quality and uncrowded slopes.  

People are tired of the mega resort experience and want something authentic.


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## hughconway (Nov 22, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> There is still another double next to that one. There are only really lines when there are race events, which aren't happening this year. The quad will be nice for opening bell, but not needed.
> 
> The electric drive is operating.



Glad to hear that the drive motor is online.  That leaves a glimmer of hope that my prognostications will be incorrect and the chair will spin this year.

You're missing the point re: capacity and need of the new chair.  You're talking about (conservatively) 50% more people on an average weekend due to the 75% increase in pass sales.  That alone, would at least slightly increase crowding under 'normal' operations.  So now that you've got more regulars/season pass holders than ever before, it stands to reason that lift lines will also increase.  Social distancing and VT rules then cut lift capacity in HALF.  So you've got 50% more skiers with 50% less lift capacity.

Given social distancing rules, the addition of the summit quad would at least put uphill capacity back near 100% of previous capabilities even while adhering to social distancing.  One would imagine that would be important when running at ~150% of 'normal' capacity.


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## tumbler (Nov 22, 2020)

I don't think a used fixed grip quad is un-authentic.


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## ne_skier (Nov 22, 2020)

skimagic said:


> The same claim was made last year -not having the new chair on line last season would piss people off leading to a loss in sales this year.
> 
> Riding the red chair is well worth a 10 minute wait.  Its just like MRG, its part of the mountain experience in terms of snow quality and uncrowded slopes.
> 
> People are tired of the mega resort experience and want something authentic.


Even if Black's open this year, I'll probably be sticking to Red. Just a cooler lift in my opinion. Black should take the crowds off of it as well, so that's an added bonus


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## urungus (Nov 22, 2020)

hughconway said:


> You're missing the point re: capacity and need of the new chair.  You're talking about (conservatively) 50% more people on an average weekend due to the 75% increase in pass sales.  That alone, would at least slightly increase crowding under 'normal' operations.



Seriously doubt Magic will see a 50% rise in skier visits this year.

1) Not all skiers have season pass, so even under normal circumstances a 75% increase in pass holders would not lead to a corresponding increase in skier visits.

2) Some of the new season ticket buyers were buying individual tickets last year, so they can’t be counted as additional visitors (though they might visit more often)

3) Magic has lowered the daily ticket cap from 1500 to 1100 tickets.

4) All out of state season season ticket holders are now subject to quarantine which is likely to reduce their pass usage, not everyone will respect the quarantine but some will.

5) Base lodge restrictions, having to use your car as lodge, etc. is likely to reduce turnout from both casual skiers and season ticket holders.


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## ne_skier (Nov 22, 2020)

urungus said:


> Seriously doubt Magic will see a 50% rise in skier visits this year.
> 
> 1) Not all skiers have season pass, so even under normal circumstances a 75% increase in pass holders would not lead to a corresponding increase in skier visits.
> 
> ...


I'd expect just about every ski area in VT to see a drastic decrease in day ticket sales, as non-dedicated skiers who may go say once a month at most won't find it worthwhile to risk Covid, not go into a base lodge, and for some states, sacrifice 1-2 weeks of time to go. This year's gonna be not only for the very dedicated, but the very dedicated people who can go despite their occupation etc


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 23, 2020)

urungus said:


> Seriously doubt Magic will see a 50% rise in skier visits this year.
> 
> 1) Not all skiers have season pass, so even under normal circumstances a 75% increase in pass holders would not lead to a corresponding increase in skier visits.
> 
> ...



i'm #2. always have been a magic quad pack holder, but the Sunday pass was super appealing to me this year. assuming weather and conditions hold up, its really nice to ski at magic on Sundays when i'm a relatively speedy 4 hours drive home. i always like skiing up north on Saturday, driving to central or southern vermont cheap lodging Saturday night, skiing south on Sunday, and getting home by 6:30/7 PM. the magic pass is perfect for that and i only need to ski about 4-5 sundays for it to make sense. add in my indy pass and my late season quad pack from last year and I've got a lot of fully magic weekends on tap - hopefully every weekend from mid-march thru end of april


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## cdskier (Nov 23, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> I'd expect just about every ski area in VT to see a drastic decrease in day ticket sales, as non-dedicated skiers who may go say once a month at most won't find it worthwhile to risk Covid, not go into a base lodge, and for some states, sacrifice 1-2 weeks of time to go. This year's gonna be not only for the very dedicated, but the very dedicated people who can go despite their occupation etc



Don't forget about the lack of discounted day tickets and the higher day ticket prices in general at most resorts...that will limit day tickets sales as well.


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## JoeB-Z (Nov 23, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> There is still another double next to that one. There are only really lines when there are race events, which aren't happening this year. The quad will be nice for opening bell, but not needed.
> 
> The electric drive is operating.
> 
> I counter bet by and large purchases were not made with any "claimed completion" in mind.


Let's get this straight. Magic will open with Green. I think they also want multiple ways down. Jamaicaman is hyper competent at managing what arises and will stick 100% to the rules. I think the Vermont out of state quarantine rules are not going away. Crowds will be fairly thin, and if they are not, Vermont may well be checking plates in the parking lots. At least putting flyers on cars.

Joe


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## ne_skier (Nov 23, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> Let's get this straight. Magic will open with Green. I think they also want multiple ways down. Jamaicaman is hyper competent at managing what arises and will stick 100% to the rules. I think the Vermont out of state quarantine rules are not going away. Crowds will be fairly thin, and if they are not, Vermont may well be checking plates in the parking lots. At least putting flyers on cars.
> 
> Joe


Apparently VT law enforcement will be sifting through the lodging and ski resort affidavits as well just to make sure nobody's flying under the radar


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## LasersInTheTaiga (Nov 23, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> Apparently VT law enforcement will be sifting through the lodging and ski resort affidavits as well just to make sure nobody's flying under the radar


Where did you hear that / what does that actually mean?


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## ne_skier (Nov 23, 2020)

LasersInTheTaiga said:


> Where did you hear that / what does that actually mean?


Hotel owner told us. Apparently somebody will be sifting through the affidavits and searching for any obvious violations. I doubt she's lying, as she as well as virtually every other hotel in the state that's in a ski town will see severe losses due to a lack of clientele. They don't really have any incentive to chase away guests from a business standpoint


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## cdskier (Nov 23, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> Hotel owner told us. Apparently somebody will be sifting through the affidavits and searching for any obvious violations. I doubt she's lying, as she as well as virtually every other hotel in the state that's in a ski town will see severe losses due to a lack of clientele. They don't really have any incentive to chase away guests from a business standpoint



How exactly would someone find any obvious violations by simply looking at a signed affidavit? These affidavits have very little information on them (name, date, signature, some contact info, and a checkbox that says "I agree I met the requirements and followed the rules" essentially). Unless someone signs it as "Mickey Mouse" or fills in 212-555-1234 as their phone number...there's nothing to point out whether someone was truthful or not.


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## ne_skier (Nov 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> How exactly would someone find any obvious violations by simply looking at a signed affidavit? These affidavits have very little information on them (name, date, signature, some contact info, and a checkbox that says "I agree I met the requirements and followed the rules" essentially). Unless someone signs it as "Mickey Mouse" or fills in 212-555-1234 as their phone number...there's nothing to point out whether someone was truthful or not.


Someone could leave said hotel at Sunday and return the next Saturday


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 24, 2020)

all that means is they checked into a hotel twice in a 10 day period, it doesn't mean they left the state

this is not enforceable. people should abide by the rules or at least the spirit of the rules in the interests of keeping others as safe as possible and allowing skiing and the ski economy to function. but give me a break, Vermont law enforcement isn't going to be wasting time scrupulously pouring over the affidavits from hundreds of hotels and ski areas. get real.


----------



## cdskier (Nov 24, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> all that means is they checked into a hotel twice in a 10 day period, it doesn't mean they left the state
> 
> this is not enforceable. people should abide by the rules or at least the spirit of the rules in the interests of keeping others as safe as possible and allowing skiing and the ski economy to function. but give me a break, Vermont law enforcement isn't going to be wasting time scrupulously pouring over the affidavits from hundreds of hotels and ski areas. get real.



Exactly...on all points.

I think the most anyone doing any checking of affidavits would/could do is ensure the hotel/ski area actually simply has one on file for every person that stayed or skied there.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 24, 2020)

What I’ve realized at this point is that Vermont’s strategy is to basically deter as many out of staters as possible, which has worked to an extent. There is no way to enforce all of their guidelines, but with what they’ve done, they’ve deterred a portion of out of staters, and encouraged other out of staters to stay home. Of course there’s always going to be that college kid that had a party on Friday night and drove up on Saturday morning, but my hope is that with masks, googles, gloves and limited time in the lodge, even if they had it, they probably wouldn’t spread it. I also think that a lot of people are still going up, but being responsible and staying home except for essential trips to the grocery store etc.


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## slatham (Nov 24, 2020)

Slidebrook87 said:


> What I’ve realized at this point is that Vermont’s strategy is to basically deter as many out of staters as possible, which has worked to an extent. There is no way to enforce all of their guidelines, but with what they’ve done, they’ve deterred a portion of out of staters, and encouraged other out of staters to stay home. Of course there’s always going to be that college kid that had a party on Friday night and drove up on Saturday morning, but my hope is that with masks, googles, gloves and limited time in the lodge, even if they had it, they probably wouldn’t spread it. I also think that a lot of people are still going up, but being responsible and staying home except for essential trips to the grocery store etc.



As I've said before, this will be the definition of negative selection. The people who have followed the rules and have been careful will not come to VT due to rules. Those who don't wear masks and don't give a F*#@ will be on first chair (though hopefully not at Magic). I hope I am wrong......


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 24, 2020)

i agree that you'll prob be seeing a lot of that at the epic and ikons, but much less so (i think) at the independents. it also remains to be seen how the resorts go about enforcing masks and things. i read yesterday someplace in BC pulled season passes over mask compliance already. imo, good.


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## JimG. (Nov 24, 2020)

slatham said:


> As I've said before, this will be the definition of negative selection. The people who have followed the rules and have been careful will not come to VT due to rules. Those who don't wear masks and don't give a F*#@ will be on first chair (though hopefully not at Magic). I hope I am wrong......


Indeed; throw away the wheat and keep the chaff.


----------



## ne_skier (Nov 24, 2020)

Not related to Covid, but does anyone know the real reason behind the pink/blue chair on Red?


----------



## urungus (Nov 24, 2020)

ne_skier said:


> Not related to Covid, but does anyone know the real reason behind the pink/blue chair on Red?



Chair 16 on the Red Chair is painted turquoise and pink and we quickly learned that the kids at Magic call it the Cotton Candy seat. All of them, including my own, desperately want to ride it. I was touched to learn that the chair is a living tribute to a 16-year-old member of the racing team who died in her sleep while training in South America. The other kids on the team organized the project and painted the chair in her favorite colors, which speaks volumes about the kind of community you’ll find at this mountain.

Source: https://allmountainmamas.skivermont.com/magic-mountain-southern-vermont/


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## tnt1234 (Nov 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> all that means is they checked into a hotel twice in a 10 day period, it doesn't mean they left the state
> 
> this is not enforceable. people should abide by the rules or at least the spirit of the rules in the interests of keeping others as safe as possible and allowing skiing and the ski economy to function. but give me a break, Vermont law enforcement isn't going to be wasting time scrupulously pouring over the affidavits from hundreds of hotels and ski areas. get real.


It seems to me the only thing the affidavits could lead to is charges should you end up in the hospital in VT with Covid.  IOW, you he'd to VT, sign the affidavit even though you didn't quarantine and test at home.  You get sick, you check into hospital.  They might then check the affidavit you signed and charge you for....I don't what. False statement?  And of course breaking the ban rules.

Otherwise, seems totally unenforceable to me.


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i agree that you'll prob be seeing a lot of that at the epic and ikons, but much less so (i think) at the independents. it also remains to be seen how the resorts go about enforcing masks and things. i read yesterday someplace in BC pulled season passes over mask compliance already. imo, good.


Good.

I'm still trying to figure out the strategy though.  I guess just wear a cloth mask and pull it down while skiing, and up at the base? That thing is gonna get wet pretty fast.

I suppose people will assume those ski masks with holes int eh nose and breaking holes at the mask will count....I hope they don't.


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## cdskier (Nov 25, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> It seems to me the only thing the affidavits could lead to is charges should you end up in the hospital in VT with Covid.  IOW, you he'd to VT, sign the affidavit even though you didn't quarantine and test at home.  You get sick, you check into hospital.  They might then check the affidavit you signed and charge you for....I don't what. False statement?  And of course breaking the ban rules.
> 
> Otherwise, seems totally unenforceable to me.



Just getting covid wouldn't prove the affidavit false though. You could have come in contact with it while you were in VT. (Side note...I fully support people following the rules...merely pointing out the absurdity over the notion that there will be any way to legitimately enforce anything).


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> Good.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out the strategy though.  I guess just wear a cloth mask and pull it down while skiing, and up at the base? That thing is gonna get wet pretty fast.
> 
> I suppose people will assume those ski masks with holes int eh nose and breaking holes at the mask will count....I hope they don't.



i got new outerwear this year, all black, and some pink accessories to go with my pink black crows. so it seemed a no brainer to buy this the other day. $30. they have a ton of colors and patterns. amazon. its very versatile, there are like 4 different ways to wear it. very easy up/down, no dealing with a mask tied behind my head or around my ears. i may double up on these, or i may keep a paper surgical mask on under everything on my chin to be lifted (under this pink thing) when in lift queues and riding lifts. 


.


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 25, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Just getting covid wouldn't prove the affidavit false though. You could have come in contact with it while you were in VT. (Side note...I fully support people following the rules...merely pointing out the absurdity over the notion that there will be any way to legitimately enforce anything).


True.

But it could lead to some proof being requested?  

I don't know...it seems pretty hard to enforce.  Don't get me wrong, it's totally working on us.  We were going to rent a place for the winter in S.Vt and ski magic, but after doing some research and meeting a little resistance and hesitance from homeowners, and after learning about the travel restrictions in place then, we decided it wouldn't be workable for us to follow the rules, and we wouldn't feel comfortable bending them frequently, so we bailed and have zero plans to ski in VT this winter.  Which breaks my heart, but you know, it's a fucking pandemic so I'll get over it.

We ended up with a place in the catskills, and I sure hope NY doesn't put in similar restrictions because the money is down!


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i got new outerwear this year, all black, and some pink accessories to go with my pink black crows. so it seemed a no brainer to buy this the other day. $30. they have a ton of colors and patterns. amazon. its very versatile, there are like 4 different ways to wear it. very easy up/down, no dealing with a mask tied behind my head or around my ears. i may double up on these, or i may keep a paper surgical mask on under everything on my chin to be lifted (under this pink thing) when in lift queues and riding lifts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 42625.


That's a good call - looks like that face mask portion is well designed to easily cover your nose....I've got a few kind of regular balaclavas but they won't easily cover my nose.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2020)

this thanksgiving i am thankful to work from home, have a partner who works from home, have no kids, and be a pretty proficient home cook. also thankful to be a bit of a lone wolf type when it comes to skiing. it's really nice that i can actually honor the rules and ski in Vermont quite frequently.


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this thanksgiving i am thankful to work from home, have a partner who works from home, have no kids, and be a pretty proficient home cook. also thankful to be a bit of a lone wolf type when it comes to skiing. it's really nice that i can actually honor the rules and ski in Vermont quite frequently.


Yeah, there is no way I can work from home and honor the rules.  I would have no issue at all in having a weekly test done, but it I would not be able to really quarantine.  

Should be a good season for you - have imagine crowds will be low.


----------



## cdskier (Nov 25, 2020)

tnt1234 said:


> True.
> 
> But it could lead to some proof being requested?
> 
> ...



I don't see what "proof" there is to determine whether you really quarantined or not in another state. If someone sits home for 14 days, how do you provide some sort of proof of that? Are they going to ask to see your credit card transactions or GPS logs from your phone or something? Are they going to call your work to determine whether you work from home or not? Without a subpoena/court order, I don't know that they'd even be able to legally request/obtain any of that info anyway. And I really don't see VT having the resources to try to pursue things that still may not truly prove anything. The system really relies on people simply being honest.

Personally I have no clue yet what I'm doing this winter. I'm still waiting to find out whether my contract at work is renewed beyond this year or not before I make any decisions. Working remotely from VT for the winter would be an option if my contract is renewed. Being a ski bum and staying in VT all winter if I don't have a job is also a possibility (in this case it just becomes a question of how comfortable I am financially doing that). I do know that no matter what, I do NOT plan on the whole "being in NJ midweek and VT weekends" thing that I normally do because that would clearly violate the rules and I have no intention of blatantly breaking them.


----------



## Tin (Nov 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i got new outerwear this year, all black, and some pink accessories to go with my pink black crows. so it seemed a no brainer to buy this the other day. $30. they have a ton of colors and patterns. amazon. its very versatile, there are like 4 different ways to wear it. very easy up/down, no dealing with a mask tied behind my head or around my ears. i may double up on these, or i may keep a paper surgical mask on under everything on my chin to be lifted (under this pink thing) when in lift queues and riding lifts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 42625.



You need some pink 80s pants. Grabbed mine for $20 on ebay.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2020)

i got a grey giro helmet with pink lettering and tracing around the vents, pink black crows poles, dropping hard hints to the girlfriend about custom oakley flight decks with pink rims and pink oakley logos, pink balaclava, and three different pairs of pink heavy skis (kastle bmx118, black crows corvus 2019, black crows corvus 2020). looking for pink gloves.


----------



## Killingtime (Nov 25, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i got new outerwear this year, all black, and some pink accessories to go with my pink black crows. so it seemed a no brainer to buy this the other day. $30. they have a ton of colors and patterns. amazon. its very versatile, there are like 4 different ways to wear it. very easy up/down, no dealing with a mask tied behind my head or around my ears. i may double up on these, or i may keep a paper surgical mask on under everything on my chin to be lifted (under this pink thing) when in lift queues and riding lifts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 42625.


Who did you order these from? I can't make out the logo from the pic. I usually get the fleece ones from Turtle Fur but these look like they may be better suited for this upcoming season.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2020)

sorry, should have provided that info - it's called blackstrap. they were on amazon but also evo and backcountry so pick your retail poison



			Amazon.com


----------



## JimG. (Nov 25, 2020)

KK that's a good find I think I'll pick one up as well...gonna pass on the pink though.


----------



## zoomzoom (Nov 25, 2020)

re:  enforcement of vt covid exec orders.  

vt has no plans to attempt enforcement of covid exec orders, and the vsp is counting on voluntary compliance.  an honor system, if you will.  








						Scott announces strict guidelines on bars and restaurants, social gatherings, sports leagues
					

With daily coronavirus case counts spiking the past three days, Vermont Governor Phil Scott Friday implemented strict new guidelines for social gatherings, bars and restaurants, and sports leagues.




					www.wcax.com
				








						Executive order enforcement | Vermont State Police
					






					vsp.vermont.gov


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 30, 2020)

2 yrs ago today we were already in the Magic treez...


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 30, 2020)

& Kusty.  Been rockin' the BS for a while now.  They are great.  This year i picked the ugliest one they have so there's no confusion on who's whose.  I now have 3.  Latest..


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 30, 2020)

nice, see you and your crew up at magic on a Sunday soon if it ever f'ing snows

i was at magic that November dump 2 years ago. last year too (if not very very early December?). i just know i skied trees at magic in deep snow super early both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. could check skitracks for dates, but lazy.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Nov 30, 2020)

Lastly, here you go.  Size 9 would work i think.   I know you're man enough for women's gloves. 
Hestra Fall Line Gloves - Women's | evo


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 30, 2020)

lol thanks


----------



## Cat in January (Dec 1, 2020)

Saw this on the uphill policy, but not evident on the map.  Anyone here able to describe it?  Top to bottom all separated in the woods?  Wide trail or just a way through the woods?

”Uphill traffic must use the designated uphill trail in the woods to the left of the Green Chair/Lower Magic Carpet run-out (looking up the mountain).”


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 1, 2020)

NOT top to bottom all separate in the woods.  Mostly sides of easy trails & connecter trails.  Just stay lookers left from the base.  Only time i usually go up is when Red isn't running,... early or late season though.  

November 2 yrs ago.  Bankmang vid.  Myself & Tin out front.


----------



## Cat in January (Dec 1, 2020)

Thanks for the video and beta.  Was a November to remember


----------



## JimG. (Dec 4, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> sorry, should have provided that info - it's called blackstrap. they were on amazon but also evo and backcountry so pick your retail poison
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com


Just picked up 2 of these. Great find.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 4, 2020)

November 30, 2018.  Red Line had the best coverage I had ever scene.  Thick, heavy snow that put everything in play.  Had my first day ever on a new pair of Fischer's 95 underfoot.  Didn't have a scratch on them at the end of the day.  I remember flying through Twilight Zone on my first run... made 4 turns before the legs started screaming for mercy.  Very early in the season.  It was so memorable I took a picture of the chalkboard in the base lodge with the report.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 16, 2020)

Any chance red opens if this storm over delivers?


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 16, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> Any chance red opens if this storm over delivers?


Alpine update: If the storm over-delivers by end of the day, then there may be a chance to open the summit Red Lift for some carefully selected trails at the top for Friday or the weekend. Snowmaking will also move to the summit starting Thursday night as the storm exits to the sea.

Me: The snow is supposed to be very dry and there is no base. Sounds like rock skis are in order if they open Red.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 17, 2020)

25+ inches should open most of Eastside and possibly tali?  Mid wiz?


----------



## slatham (Dec 17, 2020)

Seems closer to 30” up top from what I heard. A bit wind affected and with zero base need to be careful of that. Per snow report Red spins tomorrow though no indication of terrain. I would guess most opens save PB, BM, Magician.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 17, 2020)

if past years giant early storms on top of nothing is an indicator, they'll open just about everything except for magician/black line, and slide of hans.


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 17, 2020)

Red is opening Tomorrow, Friday 12/18 (As long as everything goes by the plan)


----------



## NYDB (Dec 18, 2020)

OmG what a day.  Get there if can.  Tommorow will be awesome as well.  Lots of untracked/ little tracked tree shots left.  Ungroomed trails are still chopped pow / pow bumps. Groomers were plush. 

Bring the spoons if your heading in the woods.  

 Ledges on RL /BL /GL were starting to get thin by end of day but jeebus.  I mean cmon.  Only things closed were PB and BM.  Although they probably went.  I didn't try.  Hope the kids pass the covid test next wed and can come up otherwise its back to NY for Xmas.  

Also hope the energy coming through around Xmas does more good then harm.  

Maybe 5-8 min wait on red from 10-1.  Otherwise a 0 to 5 chair wait.

Red only running.    

If my legs recover enough for tommorow ill be heading straight into the trees early.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 18, 2020)

sick. i am going sunday. leftovers of leftovers, but glad you had a great day. i couldn't do the drive again, getting from stratton to waitsfield yesterday afternoon after skiing pow all day was brutal. the thought of waking at 6 to do it again was too much.


----------



## RustyGroomer (Dec 18, 2020)

A couple pics...


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 20, 2020)

The storm was days ago. Just amazing this place. I’m in love with it. I want to marry it.

bottom of wardrobe:


----------



## NYDB (Dec 20, 2020)

Yeah leftover days are some of my favorite days there.  The lower angle stuff gets skiid in nicely, all the lesser known woods are still lightly tracked (I mean look at that picture. Thats super well marked and heavily traveled woods 3 days after a storm) and the bumps are usually proper.


----------



## slatham (Dec 20, 2020)

Incredible weekend at Magic. These pics on Friday but powder shots in the woods all weekend and many of trails, notably Sorcerer and Talisman held up best with packed powder and powder mounds even today. Others are getting thin in spots but still awesome. Hope this next storm doesn’t turn out to be as bad as it looks right now.


----------



## MG Skier (Dec 21, 2020)

Some nice pics y'all! I wish I could be out there....


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 21, 2020)

I was sort of peeved when the Green chair was shut down on Sunday afternoon. It was rocks and Ratniks on the groomed trail down from the top. I limit myself to groomed trails early on as I am old and out of shape! Then I see here the fun people were having on the West side and now I understand the balance in the decision.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Dec 21, 2020)

lol. the groomer that crosses under red that skis down from top of green was a shitshow almost every ride up. i saw some guy digging out fist size rocks and tossing them into the woods. good luck buddy (hint - you wont get all of them). that one pitch lookers left from red was just a yard-sale fest every time. i was assuming these were indy pass families who have never been to magic and didn't know what to expect? the groomer from the top of red was definitely slick under the guns, but i fully understand why they were buttressing the snowpack there.

green was closed Sunday morning, but it was running by about noon and i think was running when i left at 2


----------



## slatham (Dec 21, 2020)

They had to run the Ratnicks while they could to cover the work road and have a summit snowmaking trail that can (hopefully) withstand this weeks poor weather.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 22, 2020)

Right. The prior owners and Jim Sullivan were nuts to allow those large rocks for the tower work road.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 26, 2020)

One way down today. It was ok for me as I am just working on conditioning and form. The grooming was something of a miracle. Yeah Brownie.


----------



## slatham (Dec 26, 2020)

JoeB-Z said:


> One way down today. It was ok for me as I am just working on conditioning and form. The grooming was something of a miracle. Yeah Brownie.


Yeah storm was a worse case scenario. Brownie must have done heroic work to get a skiable way down. Cold temps and maybe a bit of snow Monday. Hope they can fill in up top and get open to summit.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 31, 2020)

Open to the summit today but the weather was not kind last night. Great base, the work road rocks are covered and will stay covered. Taking tomorrow off and try Saturday.


----------



## hughconway (Dec 31, 2020)

Any of you insiders know what is going on with Magic's quad install?  A little bird told me that they began hanging chairs on the line but before they were even done the cable was waaaay overstretched.  Is it true that they're going to have to cut the rope and re-splice?  Who is on the hook for that major miscalculation?  Hopefully Magic can hold their design engineer or installers responsible and get them to foot the bill??  In any event, it looks like my prediction was correct again this year.  I was hoping I'd be wrong, but I think it;s pretty safe to say that chair won't spin until next season.  Too bad, that chair would have been a major help during a covid affected season.


----------



## Vaughn (Dec 31, 2020)

hughconway said:


> Any of you insiders know what is going on with Magic's quad install?  A little bird told me that they began hanging chairs on the line but before they were even done the cable was waaaay overstretched.  Is it true that they're going to have to cut the rope and re-splice?  Who is on the hook for that major miscalculation?  Hopefully Magic can hold their design engineer or installers responsible and get them to foot the bill??  In any event, it looks like my prediction was correct again this year.  I was hoping I'd be wrong, but I think it;s pretty safe to say that chair won't spin until next season.  Too bad, that chair would have been a major help during a covid affected season.


Any of you know why this guy has only ever posted on this forum about Magic's chairlift problems? What a weird axe to grind.


----------



## thetrailboss (Dec 31, 2020)

Vaughn said:


> Any of you know why this guy has only ever posted on this forum about Magic's chairlift problems? What a weird axe to grind.


That aside, is there an answer to the question?


----------



## Keelhauled (Jan 1, 2021)

I had thought that at some point in the last week or so I read on their alpine update page that they were aiming for MLK weekend to open the quad, but I don't see it there now.  Did anyone else read that, or am I totally making it up?


----------



## NYDB (Jan 1, 2021)

It was preznits weekend


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 1, 2021)

It seems to me that with half the chairs on, the cable on that side will appear lower. Overstretched? You can't stretch a steel cable (wire rope) very much, especially with empty chairs. I would think you do preliminary tension, get all the chairs on and then start dialing in the proper tension. I'm sure this adjustment was carefully built into the bullwheel carriage. It also needs to function through all the temperature and load changes on the system. Of course it is designed and tested at the maximum use load. It is not designed to look correct to speculators when half assembled. Time will tell.


----------



## JimG. (Jan 1, 2021)

Vaughn said:


> Any of you know why this guy has only ever posted on this forum about Magic's chairlift problems? What a weird axe to grind.


Hugh is a lift junkie...very into all topics related to lifts and lift construction.

I doubt he has an axe to grind.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 1, 2021)

JimG. said:


> Hugh is a lift junkie...very into all topics related to lifts and lift construction.
> 
> I doubt he has an axe to grind.


So I did not interpret it as axe grinding at all.  I've just noticed in the past 16 years or so that sometimes weird things happen in Magic threads.  I don't get the weird emotions that such threads provoke.

Honestly, I am curious as to the lift issue because I want to see it open and Magic succeed.


----------



## cdskier (Jan 1, 2021)

JimG. said:


> Hugh is a lift junkie...very into all topics related to lifts and lift construction.
> 
> I doubt he has an axe to grind.





thetrailboss said:


> So I did not interpret it as axe grinding at all.  I've just noticed in the past 16 years or so that sometimes weird things happen in Magic threads.  I don't get the weird emotions that such threads provoke.
> 
> Honestly, I am curious as to the lift issue because I want to see it open and Magic succeed.



Based on your responses I thought maybe I was just mis-remembering his posts and wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Easy enough to look at the post history on this forum for someone with 19 posts. Out of 19 messages on this forum all 19 have been in this 1 thread. Of those 19 posts, all but one have somehow referred to this one single lift. He's used phrases such as "bait and switch", "another failed promise from management", "this looks so bad for Magic", "long list of broken promises", "they are going to take a MAJOR PR hit from this failure to deliver", etc. He also predicted last year that Magic would lose many pass-holders this year due to the lift not being completed for last year. Do you guys still really think he doesn't have an axe to grind of some sort and is simply a lift junkie? I'm not buying it after re-reading his posts...


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 1, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Based on your responses I thought maybe I was just mis-remembering his posts and wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Easy enough to look at the post history on this forum for someone with 19 posts. Out of 19 messages on this forum all 19 have been in this 1 thread. Of those 19 posts, all but one have somehow referred to this one single lift. He's used phrases such as "bait and switch", "another failed promise from management", "this looks so bad for Magic", "long list of broken promises", "they are going to take a MAJOR PR hit from this failure to deliver", etc. He also predicted last year that Magic would lose many pass-holders this year due to the lift not being completed for last year. Do you guys still really think he doesn't have an axe to grind of some sort and is simply a lift junkie? I'm not buying it after re-reading his posts...


You just proved my point.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 1, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> You just proved my point.


I'm a dope. What is the point proved?


----------



## JimG. (Jan 2, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Based on your responses I thought maybe I was just mis-remembering his posts and wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. Easy enough to look at the post history on this forum for someone with 19 posts. Out of 19 messages on this forum all 19 have been in this 1 thread. Of those 19 posts, all but one have somehow referred to this one single lift. He's used phrases such as "bait and switch", "another failed promise from management", "this looks so bad for Magic", "long list of broken promises", "they are going to take a MAJOR PR hit from this failure to deliver", etc. He also predicted last year that Magic would lose many pass-holders this year due to the lift not being completed for last year. Do you guys still really think he doesn't have an axe to grind of some sort and is simply a lift junkie? I'm not buying it after re-reading his posts...


Well I didn't want to make it a research project probably because I knew someone else would. So I guess I confused this guy with someone else. 

Maybe he just doesn't like Magic. 

I agree with thetrailboss, certain threads seem to involve a high level of sensitivity and defensiveness.


----------



## cdskier (Jan 2, 2021)

JimG. said:


> Well I didn't want to make it a research project probably because I knew someone else would. So I guess I confused this guy with someone else.
> 
> Maybe he just doesn't like Magic.
> 
> I agree with thetrailboss, certain threads seem to involve a high level of sensitivity and defensiveness.



I thought maybe you knew him personally or knew him from another forum or website and that's why you were defending him. Didn't take much effort to research on my part (not like I have much else to do while I quarantine before my planned winter move to VT anyway ).

As for defensiveness in this thread, I think I'm pretty impartial on this one and just calling it like I see it based on the content of the posts in this thread. I have no skin in the game with Magic. Never skied there once as it just isn't convenient for me (although the place looks very much like somewhere I would enjoy and I'd love to get there one day to check it out).


----------



## Vaughn (Jan 2, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> So I did not interpret it as axe grinding at all.  I've just noticed in the past 16 years or so that sometimes weird things happen in Magic threads.  I don't get the weird emotions that such threads provoke.
> 
> Honestly, I am curious as to the lift issue because I want to see it open and Magic succeed.


As CD noted, I only made my comment because this guy literally has only posted about Magic and its lift challenges, always with a passive aggressive tone - it's weird and reads like an ex-vendor or employee.

I hope Hugh never goes to Bolton Valley because that Vista lift is glacial and might really set him off. It's a cool mountain though!


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 2, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> I'm a dope. What is the point proved?


That for some reason people in Magic threads get really defensive about things.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 2, 2021)

Vaughn said:


> As CD noted, I only made my comment because this guy literally has only posted about Magic and its lift challenges, always with a passive aggressive tone - it's weird and reads like an ex-vendor or employee.
> 
> I hope Hugh never goes to Bolton Valley because that Vista lift is glacial and might really set him off. It's a cool mountain though!


Come on, really?  Who cares?  

That aside, the question about the lift is a legitimate one.  Looks like they are thinking Presidents' Week according to one post.  Is that the case?


----------



## ss20 (Jan 2, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> That for some reason people in Magic threads get really defensive about things.



They do.  Frankly I'm in the minority who is disappointed in Magic for advertising/using this lift as a selling point for the past two years.  I understand there were externalities with Covid and the contractor passing but it's always seemed like we've been told "oh the lift is just a few months away!" for literally years now.  IMO, should've done what they did with the Green lift and just widdled away at it and opened it on an unspecified timetable.   

I know management reads this and I hope my opinion doesn't bother y'all personally- you're a great group and I'll still be supporting Magic a few times a year and telling people on the chairlift at all the other mountains about this gem in SoVT.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 2, 2021)

Sometimes I think the 1 certain thing about the ski industry is that there's going to be a bunch of uncertainty!

I applaud Geoff and his crew for their ability to keep on rolling through all the adversity and uncertainty they have faced the last few seasons!


----------



## Vaughn (Jan 3, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Come on, really?  Who cares?
> 
> That aside, the question about the lift is a legitimate one.  Looks like they are thinking Presidents' Week according to one post.  Is that the case?


Sorry I called out your alt


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 3, 2021)

Well for one way down Saturday seemed to be a great day, powder in the morning and the hard pack never seemed to get icy except for a bit on Carumba. Snow gave them a sorely needed base for any more stuff to stick to as it falls, so hopefully we can see some ungroomed terrain coming back by MLK Weekend


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 3, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> So I did not interpret it as axe grinding at all.  I've just noticed in the past 16 years or so that sometimes weird things happen in Magic threads.  I don't get the weird emotions that such threads provoke.
> 
> Honestly, I am curious as to the lift issue because I want to see it open and Magic succeed.


Fellow lift nerd here, I know, I should probably go outside more lol
I personally haven't heard anything about needing a re-splice. Hard to believe they wouldn't have addressed this issue before putting 3/4 of the chairs on the line, but who knows. Whether or not they get Black running by whatever date they say simply depends on their ability and desire to work through the snow. Other than minor details, the main things left are getting the rest of the chairs on, installing safety bars and getting it state approved for operation. They're certainly in the home stretch.
And despite loving Magic, I am going to have to agree with ss20, that Magic shouldn't be giving out dates that they can't fully commit to, nor should they be marketing it as heavily as they are now. I'd like to believe that Black would be up and running by President's (MLK seems like an unattainable goal given it's only two weeks from now), but I don't have enough intel on the construction to know how it's going. 
In general, Magic has a good lift system. Yeah, multi-year installations are almost always required as it isn't a huge operation, but two new lifts in under 4 years is something that hasn't been done before in Magic history, not even in the Simon Oren days (Black doesn't count, they simply slapped used triples on a double. Stupid decision, it led to the lift deteriorating despite not changing capacity due to the distant chair spacing. Timberside's double and T bar were built back when it was Timber Ridge). Green was installed right and Red is maintained excellently for a lift of it's age, most resorts would have gone with a replacement or an eyesore of an "upgrade". It's got plenty of years ahead of it, especially considering Superior Tramway provides spare parts for Heron lifts. The only potential problems I could possibly pull out of my ass for the new lift system would be trail overcrowding (Total summit capacity is about equivalent to the average 6 pack) and Red falling into disrepair due to a lack of use, but I doubt I'll see either of those problems when Black is finished. If Hugh wants to complain about lifts, perhaps he should go to a Sunday River forum and complain about Barker. Not too much disagreement on that problem lol.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 3, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> If Hugh wants to complain about lifts, perhaps he should go to a Sunday River forum and complain about Barker. Not too much disagreement on that problem lol.



Or the the Attitash Triple...


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 3, 2021)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Or the the Attitash Triple...


Boy I can't believe that it still remains.


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 4, 2021)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Or the the Attitash Triple...


And by the time it started shitting the bed they had already removed Top Notch, gotta love it


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 4, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> And by the time it started shitting the bed they had already removed Top Notch, gotta love it


Think top notch sat for at least 5 years probably not inspected before it was removed


----------



## Slidebrook87 (Jan 4, 2021)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Or the the Attitash Triple...


Now combine the awful reliability, mediocre capacity, long ride time and often long lines, and you’re either not riding it at all, or waiting 30 minutes, riding for 16, and skiing for 5 giving you close to an hour a run on busy days. That and Barker need to be replaced desperately, but Vail doesn’t give a shit about Attitash.


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 4, 2021)

Slidebrook87 said:


> That and Barker need to be replaced desperately, but Vail doesn’t give a shit about Attitash.


One of the benefits of being independent. The major resort chains, particularly Boyne and Vail love to milk the east to pay for the west. All you need to do is look at the Big Sky 2025 proposals while also noting that a major detachable lift at Sunday River is in such a debilitated state it has to run slower than the T Bar next to it. Glad Magic hasn't gone down that rabbit hole.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 4, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Think top notch sat for at least 5 years probably not inspected before it was removed


From the last picture I saw, it appears that some of the towers are still standing.  That looks bad.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 4, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> One of the benefits of being independent. The major resort chains, particularly Boyne and Vail love to milk the east to pay for the west. All you need to do is look at the Big Sky 2025 proposals while also noting that a major detachable lift at Sunday River is in such a debilitated state it has to run slower than the T Bar next to it. Glad Magic hasn't gone down that rabbit hole.


Yes, Big Sky is a the darling of Boyne.  Brighton is another resort that does not see major capital improvements, at least not lately.  I'd hate to be a regular Sugarloaf or Sunday River skier with all the lift issues they have.


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## Newpylong (Jan 4, 2021)

Haven't heard many out of norm issues at SR outside of Barker, which is a constant head ache.

Can't speak for SL, though I think their lift system leaves much to be desired.


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## 1dog (Jan 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I thought maybe you knew him personally or knew him from another forum or website and that's why you were defending him. Didn't take much effort to research on my part (not like I have much else to do while I quarantine before my planned winter move to VT anyway ).
> 
> As for defensiveness in this thread, I think I'm pretty impartial on this one and just calling it like I see it based on the content of the posts in this thread. I have no skin in the game with Magic. Never skied there once as it just isn't convenient for me (although the place looks very much like somewhere I would enjoy and I'd love to get there one day to check it out).



Between you and me CD, it's one of those places that unlike anywhere else except MRG, Castlerock, and woods of Smuggs, with a base and some fresh, it's well, Magic. Don't tell anyone else, but if you go, unless conditions are downright ice, it has some of the most interesting terrain, trail design, and 1960's feel more than anything in NE outside of the aforementioned areas. I've never skied Bolton, and I have't skied any woods at Bromley, but the 6-8 x I've done Magic has always paid off. 

All I know is Ikon has helped spread out Bush crowds, so I'm not gonna complain. One local who works there told me holidays were 70% off their norm. 

I've skied Killington 3 days where I usually ski once a year ( early Nov). I got 4 more there so Bush may have 4 days less of me. I assume others are doing the same.

It does have its advantages, and combined with Covid it allows for spending more time skiing and less in lines so far.


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## tumbler (Jan 4, 2021)

Ikon is not responsible for spreading out the Bush crowds.  That would be the other thing we are all dealing with.


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## cdskier (Jan 4, 2021)

1dog said:


> All I know is Ikon has helped spread out Bush crowds, so I'm not gonna complain. One local who works there told me holidays were 70% off their norm.


That's interesting and seems somewhat counter-intuitive. Curious to see if that trend continues as the season goes on.

And yea, on the topic of Magic it definitely sounds like a place I'd enjoy. It just is the convenience (or lack thereof) that has prevented me so far from checking it out. It is nearly 4 hours from where I am in NJ and 2 hours from the MRV when I'm up there (with a requirement of driving right past the Sugarbush base area if I leave from my condo).


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## ne_skier (Jan 4, 2021)

cdskier said:


> And yea, on the topic of Magic it definitely sounds like a place I'd enjoy. It just is the convenience (or lack thereof) that has prevented me so far from checking it out. It is nearly 4 hours from where I am in NJ and 2 hours from the MRV when I'm up there (with a requirement of driving right past the Sugarbush base area if I leave from my condo).


This is our first season getting passes at Magic and honestly I couldn't be happier. Never had a disappointing day here, the locals are super friendly, the terrain is great and it's a great, laid back vibe. They also really lucked out with Covid, while other major areas are scrambling. We're about the same distance away and are former Belleayre skiers, if you ever get a holiday weekend and there's some snow it's worth checking out. Area is nice too, a lot of good restaurants and shops, not to mention great scenery.


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## machski (Jan 4, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes, Big Sky is a the darling of Boyne.  Brighton is another resort that does not see major capital improvements, at least not lately.  I'd hate to be a regular Sugarloaf or Sunday River skier with all the lift issues they have.


Hey now, we're getting a brand new Dopp Triple for the Merrill Hill residential development next year at SR.  Who needs a Barker replacement?


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## AdironRider (Jan 4, 2021)

I do find it interesting that the regular Magic posters here would have absolutely destroyed prior ownership for the black lift taking this long, but now Magic is owned by internet approved bros, so no fault can lie with them now can it?


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## 1dog (Jan 4, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Ikon is not responsible for spreading out the Bush crowds.  That would be the other thing we are all dealing with.


OK, well it spread no less than 5 people I know of who would have skied Bush if not for Ikon. Two others at Flatton,  so. . .


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## thetrailboss (Jan 4, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Ikon is not responsible for spreading out the Bush crowds.  That would be the other thing we are all dealing with.


Right.  And the crap weather.


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## 1dog (Jan 4, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Right.  And the crap weather.


those are both significant reasons, but I keep reading about line issues and the 7 days I've skied there hasn't been a line issue, at Sugarbush or K-Mart. One exception was a sh** show at Heavens Gate that ran 100 yards UP Deathspout - had a poor woman get cut off at the knees by a fellow snowboarder who couldn't stop. The amazing thing was the girl who was knocked down and couldn't get up due to injuries, was comforting the girl who did it! 

The three runs I did there yesterday was a 5 minute wait tops.


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## skithetrees (Jan 4, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> I do find it interesting that the regular Magic posters here would have absolutely destroyed prior ownership for the black lift taking this long, but now Magic is owned by internet approved bros, so no fault can lie with them now can it?


When you have 15 years without a single capital project being successfully completed under the old ownership, new ownership’s accomplishments are downright Herculean. More has been accomplished in any one of the past few years than the prior 15. The lift should be done, but it just isn’t a big deal for the mountain at this point from my perspective. The were supposed to soldier on with the black lift for at least a few more years. This was a gift (but also capital burden) that fell in theirs laps. Wait time is still less than most mountain, I don’t have to worry about assholes running over my kids like at other mountains, and the terrain (whether you are a first time visitor or diehard that knows every inch) will keep me amused for more days than I get to ski every year. What is there to complain about?


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## NYDB (Jan 5, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> I do find it interesting that the regular Magic posters here would have absolutely destroyed prior ownership for the black lift taking this long, but now Magic is owned by internet approved bros, so no fault can lie with them now can it?


If red ever went down then I'm  sure some people would get upset.   But with red running strong it isn't a big deal really.  They only really 'need' Black 6 days a year. 

What they really need is a cold snowy winter.


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## ne_skier (Jan 5, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> When you have 15 years without a single capital project being successfully completed under the old ownership, new ownership’s accomplishments are downright Herculean. More has been accomplished in any one of the past few years than the prior 15. The lift should be done, but it just isn’t a big deal for the mountain at this point from my perspective. The were supposed to soldier on with the black lift for at least a few more years. This was a gift (but also capital burden) that fell in theirs laps.





AdironRider said:


> I do find it interesting that the regular Magic posters here would have absolutely destroyed prior ownership for the black lift taking this long, but now Magic is owned by internet approved bros, so no fault can lie with them now can it?


The fact that they even took on this project is pretty crazy, I expected them to throw a new motor in Black and go from there, and if it were a replacement I would have expected them to get some old used double and put it in on Black's former line (Still more capacity than old Black for a number of reasons). Yeah the multi-year installations suck, but Magic hasn't seen investment of this size in terms of lifts since it's founding. The biggest problem coming out of the wait time for Black is just that it isn't great PR for them. They only really needed Black on holiday weekends and some busy weekends in February, and even then it always overheated and shut down before 12. Red can handle most of the mountain's summit capacity on a normal day and it should only be a select number of days they really _need_ black. On NY's point, a Red breakdown would demonstrate the need for a backup, if the installation isn't completed some time in 2021 they're gonna be playing with fire on that front (Though I don't see them getting there in the first place).


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## Newpylong (Jan 5, 2021)

When an independent installer is used (out of necessity due to cost, availability and scheduling, etc) this unfortunately is a downside of what can happen.  Went through the same myself putting a lift in.


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## ne_skier (Jan 5, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Went through the same myself putting a lift in.


Just curious, what lift?


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## hughconway (Jan 5, 2021)

I won't waste my time or energy addressing the people making emotional accusations, but for the record, I'm very pro-Magic and wish them nothing but prosperity and heavy snowfall.  And yes, I am a self-admitted lift geek.

Magic's recent facebook post confirmed what I had heard, and they are saying that the line 'relaxed' and needs to be shortened by 10' and it sounds like the cut/re-splice is scheduled for Thursday.  If that goes well and as scheduled, they may have a shot at getting that chair running & inspected for this season, which I feel will be a major asset in distributing skiers in a COVID affected winter.  It also gives them a backup option for the red double chair under "normal" conditions.  Unless I am mistaken the haul rope on the red double is at or very close to the end of its service life and will need replacing in the not too distant future.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 5, 2021)

cdskier said:


> That's interesting and seems somewhat counter-intuitive. Curious to see if that trend continues as the season goes on.
> 
> And yea, on the topic of Magic it definitely sounds like a place I'd enjoy. It just is the convenience (or lack thereof) that has prevented me so far from checking it out. It is nearly 4 hours from where I am in NJ and 2 hours from the MRV when I'm up there (with a requirement of driving right past the Sugarbush base area if I leave from my condo).



i know you are relocating to the valley for the winter, but in a normal year just leave jersey super early Saturday morning, hit magic, and then sleep at your place Saturday night and ski sugarbush. its so worth your time. or just leave the valley super early Sunday morning and hit magic sunday. i do that all the time. i don't have a condo. but its pretty typical for me to leave 3 AM, drive to sugarbush, ski, drive to rutland to sleep, then drive to magic to ski. easy drive home from magic, under 4 hours if everything is perfect.


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## slatham (Jan 5, 2021)

I think what many posts above are missing is that Magic needs Black because if they don’t need it they will fail. They cannot sustain on a long term basis on just Red and Green. And they need Black running this season - at some point - so there is no doubt it is online for 21/22. Then they need to focus on snowmaking to have both the terrain and uphill capacity to be an increasingly viable option to nearby resorts even in challenging weather regimes. So yes Magic doesn’t “need” Black this weekend or even MLK from your personal lift line perspective, especially given the Covid reduced skier visits, but they need it to continue the growth of the skier base and secure its long term future. IMHO.

FWIW I believe it will in fact come online this winter, pre-Presidents.


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## cdskier (Jan 5, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i know you are relocating to the valley for the winter, but in a normal year just leave jersey super early Saturday morning, hit magic, and then sleep at your place Saturday night and ski sugarbush. its so worth your time. or just leave the valley super early Sunday morning and hit magic sunday. i do that all the time. i don't have a condo. but its pretty typical for me to leave 3 AM, drive to sugarbush, ski, drive to rutland to sleep, then drive to magic to ski. easy drive home from magic, under 4 hours if everything is perfect.


I'd have to leave around 4AM to make it to Magic when they open on a Saturday morning from NJ. No way I could last skiing after getting up that early and driving 4 hours. The Sunday thing is a far more viable option and what I would try to do in a normal year one day...


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 6, 2021)

hughconway said:


> Any of you insiders know what is going on with Magic's quad install?  A little bird told me that they began hanging chairs on the line but before they were even done the cable was waaaay overstretched.  Is it true that they're going to have to cut the rope and re-splice?  Who is on the hook for that major miscalculation?  Hopefully Magic can hold their design engineer or installers responsible and get them to foot the bill??  In any event, it looks like my prediction was correct again this year.  I was hoping I'd be wrong, but I think it;s pretty safe to say that chair won't spin until next season.  Too bad, that chair would have been a major help during a covid affected season.


I need to eat crow with my contrary speculation. The rope is getting re-spliced this week.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 6, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> I need to eat crow with my contrary speculation. The rope is getting re-spliced this week.


It is still moving forward.  I think I saw here that the main contractor died.  One can't plan for that.


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## ne_skier (Jan 6, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> It is still moving forward.  I think I saw here that the main contractor died.  One can't plan for that.


I'm pretty sure the death of the main contractor occurred in 2018, and was the big wrench thrown into the Green Chair's installation. If another main contractor died for Black, that's one crazy curse.


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## Newpylong (Jan 6, 2021)

Yes, that was on Green. Then Tim took over finishing that, and is now installing Black. I didn't think you could splice with chairs attached, apparently you can or it wouldn't be getting done so quick! I have only been involved with an empty haul rope.

Beyond getting Black complete, I am sure Matt and Geoff would love to have more water pumping capacity when the pond is redone. I think the current design is two fairly small and dissimilar boosters without a common manifold (each drives a separate upline) which is not very efficient especially for a hill that big.

Plenty of air with those two big Rotary Screws they got a few years back!


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## Dickc (Jan 6, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Yes, that was on Green. Then Tim took over finishing that, and is now installing Black. I didn't think you could splice with chairs attached, apparently you can or it wouldn't be getting done so quick! I have only been involved with an empty haul rope.


I saw Sunapee replace the main bearing on the upper bullwheel of the triple one year by tying off the haul rope to the two top towers with cum-a-longs so as to get enough slack to pull it off the bullwheel.  They only removed a half dozen chairs to do it too. With only half the chairs on the line, it should be fairly easy to grapple the haul rope at two farther apart towers, pull out enough slack with cum-a-longs and drop it to the ground to open, cut, and re-splice.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 7, 2021)

Posted today on FB:


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## slatham (Jan 7, 2021)

Well there you have it. Yes it needs a splice, yes you can do them with chairs on, and yes the splice will be done by MLK weekend. Hopefully final work and certification is soon to follow. 

Lots of progress with snowmaking especially with 300 line back. If weather cooperates (looks good) next week could be "drain the pond" time and whale skiing on Talisman by MLK.


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## ne_skier (Jan 7, 2021)

Doesn't look like they're gonna be getting much more snow in the near future, pretty dry outlook. Hopefully you're right and they can add to the east side and open the west if temps cooperate


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## NYDB (Jan 11, 2021)

No Tali for MLK weekend?


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 11, 2021)

Not even Showoff. I am so sick of the icy top of Carumba. They are trying. Frankly there is a different type of skier showing up than usual. They need some easier stuff. And not funnel everyone to a single trail.


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## NYDB (Jan 12, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Not even Showoff. I am so sick of the icy top of Carumba. They are trying. Frankly there is a different type of skier showing up than usual. They need some easier stuff. And not funnel everyone to a single trail.


Right.  from an operational standpoint it makes sense for them to push for lower magic carpet and focus on more easy paths down.  MLK weekend will bring out alot beginners and they want that easy path down from Green


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## Newpylong (Jan 12, 2021)

I hope after this season there are funds to still proceed with the pond reconstruction and additional pumping capacity. There is a long way to go before even getting 50% of that hill coverable in a bad winter like this. Sadly, bad winters seem to be more of the norm.


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## slatham (Jan 12, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I hope after this season there are funds to still proceed with the pond reconstruction and additional pumping capacity. There is a long way to go before even getting 50% of that hill coverable in a bad winter like this. Sadly, bad winters seem to be more of the norm.


The pond is not the issue (though no argument that more water would be good). The issue is the pump for the 300 loop has been down since early December. It has been repaired and is back and installed but they haven't been able to get it fully running. The 300 loop is a separate loop that covers base area, terrain park, Hocus Pocus and Showoff. If this had been running, in my estimation, all of that terrain would be opened, and they would likely have hit Lower Carpet and probably Talisman before hitting Carumba. Such are the challenges running a ski area full stop, much less a small independent area with historical deferred maintain issues that are taking time to overcome (though great progress has been made).

Lower Carpet should be done, and given the 8 or so portable tower guns visible on the CAM they are done, and likely (hopefully) moving them to Talisman. Unfortunately, given temps this week and linear feet of snow required, they will need some help from Mother Nature to get Talisman open for MLK. Its not out of the question for sure, but a close call.


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## ss20 (Jan 12, 2021)

Unfortunately for Magic their location and low elevation will really hurt them this weekend.  At this point the storm for the weekend looks like it'll be a net gain for the Green Mountain Spine and points west of that while hurting NH and Maine.  Magic is too low and too far East.  Good spot for coastals and southern sliders but not for storms that track inland.


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## Newpylong (Jan 12, 2021)

slatham said:


> The pond is not the issue (though no argument that more water would be good). The issue is the pump for the 300 loop has been down since early December. It has been repaired and is back and installed but they haven't been able to get it fully running. The 300 loop is a separate loop that covers base area, terrain park, Hocus Pocus and Showoff. If this had been running, in my estimation, all of that terrain would be opened, and they would likely have hit Lower Carpet and probably Talisman before hitting Carumba. Such are the challenges running a ski area full stop, much less a small independent area with historical deferred maintain issues that are taking time to overcome (though great progress has been made).
> 
> Lower Carpet should be done, and given the 8 or so portable tower guns visible on the CAM they are done, and likely (hopefully) moving them to Talisman. Unfortunately, given temps this week and linear feet of snow required, they will need some help from Mother Nature to get Talisman open for MLK. Its not out of the question for sure, but a close call.



I think the pond has likely not been an issue precisely because the second pump has not been operating. However, no need to take my word, just do the calculations. In operating a ski area I had to perform them often.

The target 50-60% of terrain covered by snowmaking is 80 acres. Using industry standard baselines and assumptions, that's around 30M gallons of water per snowmaking season at minimum. That's assuming average coverage and average recovery efforts of which has not been the case the past few seasons. The existing pond is what, ~4.5M gallons? That is at least 6 refills to wait for, at least 3 when the pond has been doubled in size. Time is money in snowmaking.

Now take the pumping capacity (I am assuming the 300 and 400 were designated after the horsepower of the pump drivers, so that would place them in the 1300 GPM range based on typical vertical turbine head height and discharge pressures), total snowmaking acreage, and opening snow depth and you assume a baseline temperature bin to allocate hours: it comes out to be about 500 snowmaking hours at current pumping capacity just to get base coverage on that terrain. That isn't too bad in actuality, but that is a perfect scenario assuming an average allocation of hours based on wet bulb, which we haven't had recently.

All of this said, they crush it with what they have, but I am sure they would like more to be able to cover Sorcerer, Witch to Black, etc in future to get to that 50-60%.


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## slatham (Jan 12, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I think the pond has likely not been an issue precisely because the second pump has not been operating. However, no need to take my word, just do the calculations. In operating a ski area I had to perform them often.
> 
> The target 50-60% of terrain covered by snowmaking is 80 acres. Using industry standard baselines and assumptions, that's around 30M gallons of water per snowmaking season at minimum. That's assuming average coverage and average recovery efforts of which has not been the case the past few seasons. The existing pond is what, ~4.5M gallons? That is at least 6 refills to wait for, at least 3 when the pond has been doubled in size. Time is money in snowmaking.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you know more about most of this than I do. But do recall they can now pump from Thomspsonburg Creek. Also I think the core minimum goal at this stage is to get more like 30% open - U/L Carpet, Medium, Trick, Showoff, Hocus Pocus, base/beginer/terrain park, Talisman. That to me makes then competitive. If the plan were to push for those trails AND Vertigo, Carumba, Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch/Blackline, by MLK, then yes I would highly agree pond enlargement is necessary (and they'd still need to pump from the creek).


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## MG Skier (Jan 13, 2021)

Expanded snowmaking to the suggested areas would be huge! (Eventually when everything falls into place). I also understand that it costs $ to run pumps and compressors and man hours to make that all happen. I have seen the hydrants on Witch and wondered why they didn't blow that in. I was unaware of pipes on Sorcerer but that would be cool too...might need a Winch Cat for some of that...did the one Magic acquired last year work out?


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## Newpylong (Jan 13, 2021)

Should be able to free groom Sorcerer top down, very carefully, especially because it's fairly narrow.

Status of "future" trails as I know them talking to a past snowmaker:

Lower Magic Carpet: back in the open column! Back online after 20 years of being out of commission due to pipe damage.

There are indeed pipes on Sorcerer and Matt spent a lot of time on repairs the past few years there as well. They are good to go. Maybe that will get the love soon over Talisman.

Witch to Black has pipes but my understanding is the water line above Hocus up into Witch needs substantial repairs. Maybe next on the off-season list. Pipe repairs are like wack a mole on lines that had substantial freeze damage or haven't been used in years. Tough to get equipment in up there too I imagine.

Mystery: also has pipe but my understanding is it has been scavenged for parts over the years. Likely also requires substantial effort.

Vertigo: I think there is a lateral coming over from LMC with a few hydrants on it which I was told wouldn't be too bad to get going again. Not sure if worth it?

I can't recall if Up Your Sleeve had pipe or not?

Hopefully Matt can fill in the blanks when he gets a chance (yeah right right now).


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## MG Skier (Jan 14, 2021)

Newpylong:

I love the Brodie patch! I learned to ski there in the 80's when my scout troop stayed near by for a weekend. I think I skied 4 weekends there! Great memories. Wish I could ski it with my adult abilities as opposed to ski once a year/beginner abilities!

You are right! I remember some welding on Sorcerer in the recent past. If I remember correctly after hiking a few falls back and after the concrete and tower work, there was a mangled pipe above Hocus Pocus that looked like it lost the war. (I'm not sure what it was.)

Now that you mention pipe on vertigo, I think I remember seeing something once on that trail....however,  I like it natural on that trail, even when it is thin cover.

All in all it takes time and they are certainly moving in an excellent direction! I totally get it with welding water supply pipe. It is the opposite when doing thin gauge steel, burning holes as opposed to closing holes. I get warm welding in the summer, but a pipe that big must hold some serious heat! Weld 'em up!


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## slatham (Jan 14, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Should be able to free groom Sorcerer top down, very carefully, especially because it's fairly narrow.
> 
> Status of "future" trails as I know them talking to a past snowmaker:
> 
> ...



Mystery only has pipes on top section down to approximately the Green Lift - dead end, apparently used to make enough to race on that section of the trail back in the day. As mentioned, used for spare parts. 

Up Your Sleeve - the map in Geoff's office shows pipe and when I questioned it (I've never seen anything over there) he too scratched his head. Not sure if Matt has gone pipe hunting.....

Vertigo definitely has pipe & hydrants, no idea whether it was tested during work on LMC. However with LMC now live, I would think it would be a great trail to hit as not much snow needed to get it open, and its a great trail.

Sorcerer, I too have heard is ready, just a matter of whether they can get to it. And they already groom it on occasion when required.


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## MG Skier (Jan 14, 2021)

Vertigo with a base would just mean it can stay open longer! It gets cooked come spring time.


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## Do Work (Jan 14, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Should be able to free groom Sorcerer top down, very carefully, especially because it's fairly narrow.
> 
> Status of "future" trails as I know them talking to a past snowmaker:
> 
> ...



  We are hoping to do Sorcerer next week as the faster way down and another new trail we haven't made snow on in about 20+ years but I have to make a trip up it with the snowcat and my work basket to add in some hydrants as many of the old ones were harvested by Ops of yore, and the plugs are now one with the pipe.  The lines work otherwise, and testing has found no other issues after I finished hatching & patching last summer so I'm optimistic on that goal.  

Witch to Black is still inoperable, but is a priority to repair this summer.  We know where it's bad and have a plan, we just need time because it's in a SUPER challenging spot to access with the machines we need to get the job done.     

Vertigo is functional, but we couldn't justify delaying the switch to head west.  We want to make snow there specifically as a slalom race training venue and to bolster green/blue trails, but we are in a rush with the terrible weather, so it'll have to wait.  

Mystery has pipes and the air line is live, but the water was disconnected many many years ago, and it has a lot of breaks to repair too.  That will also be likely brought back online this summer though, as it's a great trail in a great spot for snowmaking to happen.  Having that way down under Green would be great, and having enough snow to tame the waterbars on the runout would be really nice, as they are  aggressive.      

Sleeve has no pipes, which sucks because that and Kinder (also no existing pipes) would be sooooo awesome with snowmaking IMO.  

Magic's long game obviously has to include increased capacity for snowmaking, and to me if we could drain the entire pond in the blink of an eye that would be ideal but obviously not realistic.  Time will tell what we can truly commit to and at what pace, but we are working on not only repairing what's there and modernizing our valve houses, valves, drains, guns, staff, gear and SOPs that help us ensure efficient changeovers, but eyeing smart upgrades in an order that they can step up our production without putting the cart before the horse and spending money that doesn't net us immediate gains.  The devil is in the details though- this is the first year (knock on wood) we haven't had a single freeze-up or delay on a changeover and it's helped us in a huge way to stay productive and hit our weather windows full force.  That progress had a lot to do with realistic allocation of resources this summer, and tackling what seemed like smaller things as we could- but that netted us huge gains in efficiency because they eliminated major complications when worked into a solid SOP.

It's an uphill battle and the rules of engagement keep changing, but we're making solid advancements and we'll keep chipping away.  Our team has never been better or worked more efficiently, and I'm really happy with what we've been able to accomplish with the reality of the operating environment and the complications we've faced as an organization.


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## MG Skier (Jan 14, 2021)

Thanks for the update Do Work. You guys are truly making it happen and wearing every hat needed for a mountain to be safe and functional!


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## Do Work (Jan 14, 2021)

slatham said:


> Mystery only has pipes on top section down to approximately the Green Lift - dead end, apparently used to make enough to race on that section of the trail back in the day. As mentioned, used for spare parts.
> 
> Up Your Sleeve - the map in Geoff's office shows pipe and when I questioned it (I've never seen anything over there) he too scratched his head. Not sure if Matt has gone pipe hunting.....
> 
> ...



Sleeve only has one pipe, but it *crosses the trail underground* at approximately the Sunshine Corner valve house heading east, it doesn't parallel the trail.  I can only assume that it fed the Timber Ridge side, as that was the approximate location of the old connector, but I don't know for sure and that line wouldn't really do anything for us now realistically.


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## Do Work (Jan 14, 2021)

MG Skier said:


> Thanks for the update Do Work. You guys are truly making it happen and wearing every hat needed for a mountain to be safe and functional!




Thank all of you for your positivity!  I really can't say enough good things about this whole team- from the front office to patrol to lifties and the snowmakers...  Everybody is working so hard to make this season work and it is TRULY been a team effort in ways I can't even put into words.  It's only going to keep getting better from here!


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## slatham (Jan 14, 2021)

Do Work said:


> We are hoping to do Sorcerer next week as the faster way down and another new trail we haven't made snow on in about 20+ years but I have to make a trip up it with the snowcat and my work basket to add in some hydrants as many of the old ones were harvested by Ops of yore, and the plugs are now one with the pipe.  The lines work otherwise, and testing has found no other issues after I finished hatching & patching last summer so I'm optimistic on that goal.
> 
> Witch to Black is still inoperable, but is a priority to repair this summer.  We know where it's bad and have a plan, we just need time because it's in a SUPER challenging spot to access with the machines we need to get the job done.
> 
> ...


Do Work, if there was true justice in this world you'd get a foot of snow this weekend, the vaccine shot, and win lotto (to of course invest back in Magic!). You guys are killing it in a very tough environment x 10.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 14, 2021)

slatham said:


> Do Work, if there was true justice in this world you'd get a foot of snow this weekend, the vaccine shot, and win lotto (to of course invest back in Magic!). You guys are killing it in a very tough environment x 10.




trending that direction...


----------



## sugarbushskier (Jan 14, 2021)

Progress isn't always linear and you guys have continuously moved forward, even in a difficult environment.  Keep up the great effort and do not lose faith! 

Magic is pure gold and needs your commitment and drive!


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 14, 2021)

Do Work said:


> We are hoping to do Sorcerer next week as the faster way down and another new trail we haven't made snow on in about 20+ years but I have to make a trip up it with the snowcat and my work basket to add in some hydrants as many of the old ones were harvested by Ops of yore, and the plugs are now one with the pipe.  The lines work otherwise, and testing has found no other issues after I finished hatching & patching last summer so I'm optimistic on that goal.
> 
> Witch to Black is still inoperable, but is a priority to repair this summer.  We know where it's bad and have a plan, we just need time because it's in a SUPER challenging spot to access with the machines we need to get the job done.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the great details, and after having gone through literally the same crap as you guys, I know the pain.

Switching trails was literally a disaster every time. We avoided it like the plague. This was because there were the wrong valves for the job (cast iron gates), and no valve houses to heat. Once you get ice inside the mechanism they are damn near impossible to lower or raise, no matter how much you torch them. Also since the pipes were so old we would always have blow outs on charge.

Freeze ups constantly because there were no drains after the trail isolation valves. When we ran on one trail for a week the closed valves would piss water down the closed lines. Catastrophic once the pipe filled up.

Hydrant plugs that were in so long (because the hydrants were scavenged) we couldn't remove them. All. Over. Had to put on new weldolets almost always. No amount of PB Blaster helped.

Then there is of course the age old Mr. Vick repairs on the lines not welded. I can still cite Victaulic clamp, gasket and bolt part #s. Not something to be proud of.

On and on and on.

Great to hear about Mystery and Vertigo - those would be huge additions to have the option to cover off on the East Side.

One question I always had riding the old Black. It looked like there was pipe climbing Black Magic above Witch? Was I seeing things? Is this just from a bygone era or is this one of your uplines?

Keep the faith.


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## Do Work (Jan 14, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Thank you for the great details, and after having gone through literally the same crap as you guys, I know the pain.
> 
> Switching trails was literally a disaster every time. We avoided it like the plague. This was because there were the wrong valves for the job (cast iron gates), and no valve houses to heat. Once you get ice inside the mechanism they are damn near impossible to lower or raise, no matter how much you torch them. Also since the pipes were so old we would always have blow outs on charge.
> 
> ...



Preach!! The layer cake of issues can compound quickly to make even the simplest functions absolutely brutal. Funny to think how huge an effect something as simple as an enclosed valve house and some simple safety drains have, but their importance cannot be overstated.

Steve if I hit the megabucks we all get DPS rock skis and the sinks in the lodge will flow First Drop lol


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## Hillwalker95 (Jan 14, 2021)

Do Work said:


> Preach!! The layer cake of issues can compound quickly to make even the simplest functions absolutely brutal. Funny to think how huge an effect something as simple as an enclosed valve house and some simple safety drains have, but their importance cannot be overstated.
> 
> Steve if I hit the megabucks we all get DPS rock skis and the sinks in the lodge will flow First Drop lol


How do you think the conditions will be at Magic this weekend?


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## Do Work (Jan 14, 2021)

Hillwalker95 said:


> How do you think the conditions will be at Magic this weekend?



I’d think it’ll be great.  More options, fresh snow that’ll drop some more ropes and the beers will definitely be cold.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 14, 2021)

lol my rock skis are DPS ::ducks::

just what happens when skis get old

see y’all Monday


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## slatham (Jan 15, 2021)

Do Work said:


> Steve if I hit the megabucks we all get DPS rock skis and the sinks in the lodge will flow First Drop lol


Works for me! Fingers crossed!


----------



## slatham (Jan 15, 2021)

Hillwalker95 said:


> How do you think the conditions will be at Magic this weekend?



Serious potential. The current natural base is thin but *DENSE*. Current thinking of the Magic Weather office is 6-8" of wet dense snow (maybe slightly less at base, maybe slightly more at summit). I'm not patrol but my guess is that 6-8"of dense snow would open everything but the steepest ledgy trails (Green line, Red Line, Pitch Black, Black Magic, Magician) though some of those could be in play for rock skis, especially if the storm outperforms. **IF** the pattern verifies and delivers the next several/many weeks could be Magic season......


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 15, 2021)

slatham said:


> Serious potential. The current natural base is thin but *DENSE*. Current thinking of the Magic Weather office is 6-8" of wet dense snow (maybe slightly less at base, maybe slightly more at summit). I'm not patrol but my guess is that 6-8"of dense snow would open everything but the steepest ledgy trails (Green line, Red Line, Pitch Black, Black Magic, Magician) though some of those could be in play for rock skis, especially if the storm outperforms. **IF** the pattern verifies and delivers the next several/many weeks could be Magic season......


fuck yea im getting ready to put my sunday pass to work in late jan and feb


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## Hillwalker95 (Jan 15, 2021)

slatham said:


> Serious potential. The current natural base is thin but *DENSE*. Current thinking of the Magic Weather office is 6-8" of wet dense snow (maybe slightly less at base, maybe slightly more at summit). I'm not patrol but my guess is that 6-8"of dense snow would open everything but the steepest ledgy trails (Green line, Red Line, Pitch Black, Black Magic, Magician) though some of those could be in play for rock skis, especially if the storm outperforms. **IF** the pattern verifies and delivers the next several/many weeks could be Magic season......


Very helpful and great to hear.  Sounds like the forecast has improved a bit over past 24 hours (i.e. bit more tilted to snow vs heavy rain).  My wife and I are debating between this weekend vs. maybe Fri+Sat next week at Magic.  Any thoughts on this?  I know it is all speculative, but you guys have much more knowledge and expertise on this than I do, so appreciate any insights!


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 15, 2021)

if the forecast holds, magic will get most of the mountain open tomorrow and/or sunday. it will still be thin as fuck and you will hurt your skis, but the high density wet nature of the snow will help cover most shit up. based on the extended forecast, magic should be fair/good thru the end of january, and hopefully beyond if we avoid any more thaws.


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## NYDB (Jan 15, 2021)

Hillwalker95 said:


> Very helpful and great to hear.  Sounds like the forecast has improved a bit over past 24 hours (i.e. bit more tilted to snow vs heavy rain).  My wife and I are debating between this weekend vs. maybe Fri+Sat next week at Magic.  Any thoughts on this?  I know it is all speculative, but you guys have much more knowledge and expertise on this than I do, so appreciate any insights!


FWIW I'm skipping this weekend.  The reality is that with snow in the forecast and it being MLK weekend, there will be quite a line up on Red. 

Sat and Sun on MLK weekend with heavy snow it will be packed.   Covid or not.  

It will be 2 of the 6 days a year that they *need* Black spinning.   

I'm not saying don't go, I'm just saying be prepared for 20 minute lines on red.  Of course every other mountain is So VT will have the same lift line problem, except at magic on the way down it will be much less crowded and less tracked up throughout the day 

Next friday should be great with a possible refresh next week and cold conditions.


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## Hillwalker95 (Jan 15, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> if the forecast holds, magic will get most of the mountain open tomorrow and/or sunday. it will still be thin as fuck and you will hurt your skis, but the high density wet nature of the snow will help cover most shit up. based on the extended forecast, magic should be fair/good thru the end of january, and hopefully beyond if we avoid any more thaws.


ok that's brutally honest - thanks   Fri+Sat next week it is then ...


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 15, 2021)

Green is still being repaired as of 4PM today. Red had some sort of problem with wiring on the electrical cable. Rectified. Cost me a run. The snow was quite good today.


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## ne_skier (Jan 17, 2021)

Wow, what an amazing day. Can’t say I’ve been in anything like it, the snow was much better than Saturday and got a chance to ski some runs I haven’t been on before/in a while. Definitely one of the days they would have needed black, but it was tolerable. Red got a 1hr-ish late start because a Brittle Bar needed to be replaced (To anyone wondering: they are sensors on the towers that detect if the cable slipped off the sheaves and into the cable catchers, they are little metal things you’ll see with an Orange cable coming from them.). Overall, a great day


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## slatham (Jan 17, 2021)

Great pics. I love Magician and HOM. This storm and what is coming up is just what we needed.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 17, 2021)

That was mighty heavy snow and varied as you went. People would not quit. Red started late, Green needed repair after lunchl (for half an hour as accurately informed to me). Something was funky with my ability to put load on the uphill right ski after a right turn so I stopped early. Tomorrow is another day.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 17, 2021)

I forgot to say the lower part of Trick had cool snow. Hero conditions for that stretch.


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## ne_skier (Jan 18, 2021)

Probably some great groomers today. Avoided most of the usually-groomed runs yesterday as they were mostly packed powder with occasional bumps and ditches, but groomed flat packed powder is the best snow for groomed runs that wont get icy.


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## ss20 (Jan 22, 2021)

At magic today.  Skied under black and found a few chairs touching each other on the cable (see picture).  I couldn't think of a reason for this in the construction process, but kept an open mind.  A few hours later I ski by again and there's a dude on a snowmobile taking pictures of the chairs.  Naturally I ask, "chair spacing a little tight, huh?" and the reply was "you think you're funny...I recommend you keep on going sir".  Tough response but sounds like someones having a bad day, lol.  I don't want to speculate but things don't seem positive.  that's my story, take it with a grain of salt.  


Skiing is off the hook.  Black line is my favorite.  4-6" of soft stuff on top of a solid base.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 22, 2021)

I found it funny...

I could see how that wouldn't be received well from the ops crew though


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## tumbler (Jan 22, 2021)

Must have been a Friday afternoon when that chair was hung...Meh, tight enough


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## ss20 (Jan 22, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I found it funny...
> 
> I could see how that wouldn't be received well from the ops crew though


Yeah I don't fault the guy.  I thought I was gonna get "oh we do this this on purpose so we can do...xyz"... guess not.  Hey at least I got called "sir". I thought I was at deer valley or beaver creek for a second!

Hope they can fix whatever issue it is with black and get it done.  Still a good amount of work to do....unload ramp, safety bars, and maybe go back and re tighten some of the grips lol
Nuking now.  Free refills for the final couple hours?  Love magic


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## Keelhauled (Jan 22, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Must have been a Friday afternoon when that chair was hung...Meh, tight enough


Torque wrenches are for nerds!


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## urungus (Jan 22, 2021)

Wednesday’s Alpine Update said “Work continues on the Black Quad with communications line work and further drive work this week. It is still a couple weeks away but it will be operating this season and we will let you know when we are ready for state lift testing and certification.”


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## NYDB (Jan 22, 2021)

Great day today.   Plenty of lightly tracked trees shots remaining in unmarked woods. Marked woods pretty tracked out.  Still decent coverage on most everything.  Probably by end of day tomorrow steepest stuff will be beaten to rocks/dirt.     steeper Natural pretty much all bumps by end of the day. Lower angle natural still lovely.   Groomers will be wicked retahded good.  snow showers on and off all day. Pb —>  Blackline was Rotd.


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## ne_skier (Jan 22, 2021)

ss20 said:


> At magic today.  Skied under black and found a few chairs touching each other on the cable (see picture).  I couldn't think of a reason for this in the construction process, but kept an open mind.  A few hours later I ski by again and there's a dude on a snowmobile taking pictures of the chairs.  Naturally I ask, "chair spacing a little tight, huh?" and the reply was "you think you're funny...I recommend you keep on going sir".  Tough response but sounds like someones having a bad day, lol.  I don't want to speculate but things don't seem positive.  that's my story, take it with a grain of salt.


I know chairlifts and their operations well, but I've never seen anything like that. It's either some construction practice that I've never heard of or seen before, or serious grip slippage. It looks like you took that photo on Pitch Black, which is by far the steepest section of the lift. I've only see slippage this bad on the Utah Quad at Tussey Mountain, when multiple chairs piled up a year or so ago. Other than that, only on a certain brand of faulty detachables (Yan), all of which have been retrofitted. This lift line is significantly steeper than the one it was on at Stratton, however I struggle to see how that could lead to slippage. Black Line is a very common model used in a large variety of terrain types, and I'd have to believe that it can be adjusted to fit the terrain it serves. Magic is pretty honest about this stuff compared to most resorts, and if you don't hear anything from them, it was likely done on purpose.


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## ne_skier (Jan 22, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> I know chairlifts and their operations well, but I've never seen anything like that. It's either some construction practice that I've never heard of or seen before, or serious grip slippage. It looks like you took that photo on Pitch Black, which is by far the steepest section of the lift. I've only see slippage this bad on the Utah Quad at Tussey Mountain, when multiple chairs piled up a year or so ago. Other than that, only on a certain brand of faulty detachables (Yan), all of which have been retrofitted. This lift line is significantly steeper than the one it was on at Stratton, however I struggle to see how that could lead to slippage. Black Line is a very common model used in a large variety of terrain types, and I'd have to believe that it can be adjusted to fit the terrain it serves. Magic is pretty honest about this stuff compared to most resorts, and if you don't hear anything from them, it was likely done on purpose.


Looked at it again, the place where this photo seems to have been taken was above Pitch Black, so not too steep. Still, not sure, it could be either-or


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## ss20 (Jan 22, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Looked at it again, the place where this photo seems to have been taken was above Pitch Black, so not too steep. Still, not sure, it could be either-or



The only sets of chairs I noticed like this were above Black Pitch.  3 sets of chairs iirc.  Both on the downhill and uphill sides.


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## kancamagus (Jan 22, 2021)

Could they have had to temporarily move chairs off a certain patch of cable to check the spicing? The original splicing was two ops (to add in a bonus section), and if they had to shorten the haul rope, could that be a third splice? Or would they "undo" one of the prior splices, cut it shorter, then redo that? 

Three splices, three sections with no chairs....


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## ne_skier (Jan 23, 2021)

Took this photo on Sunday of MLK weekend, must have been recent. Same spot you’re talking about


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## slatham (Jan 23, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> View attachment 50143Took this photo on Sunday of MLK weekend, must have been recent. Same spot you’re talking about


All I know is they are doing work on the lift. I saw the two chairs next to each other yesterday and today in different places. And I saw this a few weeks ago in a very different spot. But I do not know why the chairs are together like that.


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## Hillwalker95 (Jan 23, 2021)

Skied Fri and Sat at Magic.  First time there -I understand why so many love it!  Can't remember a place with less crowds on a Saturday.  Whole mountain open and good conditions.   The double blacks under the red lift were thin cover and crud got exposed.  But since I'm no expert skier, I wasn't doing those.  But the blacks on the west side (Sorceror, Heart of Magician, Talisman) were a lot of fun - soft snow, nice pitch and not too many people skiing them!   On the East side, Mystery, Vertigo and Up Your Sleeve were great.  They have also very thoughtfully have erected a large heated tent where we could change and eat lunch while socially distanced.  No quad yet - that will make it even better.  I'm a fan.


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## Do Work (Jan 26, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I found it funny...
> 
> I could see how that wouldn't be received well from the ops crew though



That was 100% not Ops.  Definitely one of the lift contractors, sorry for the salt!


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## ss20 (Jan 26, 2021)

Do Work said:


> That was 100% not Ops.  Definitely one of the lift contractors, sorry for the salt!



Oh I was positive it wasn't a Magic guy!  You guys are nothing but totally professional and kind!  In line to pick up my ticket I saw one of the desk ladies (I think) talk to a gentleman over the trail map across from the pickup about where to go to ski the greens so he was comfortable to go up the mountain.  Then she had a nice conversation with me for a bit.  Just that 90 seconds makes a hugely positive impression.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 26, 2021)

Do Work said:


> That was 100% not Ops.  Definitely one of the lift contractors, sorry for the salt!



even if it was, I think most people would understand...   It also sounds like the OPS guys would likely crack a joke in return!  I need to get to this place... Sounds like when everything is open there is good intermediate terrain, right?  That's what the wife likes.


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## NYDB (Jan 26, 2021)

If by good intermediate terrain you mean interesting, natural terrain, maybe a few bumps and not all groomed then absolutely.

Even some of the green terrain there would probably be considered blue the way they manage the grooming.  Which is a good thing IMO but sometimes it catches people off guard.  Most of the green runs I would consider fun for intermediates type terrain.

Kinderspiel for example - the top 1/3rd of the trail definitely has a blue pitch and is left natural if there is recent snowfall.

Wizard - looks like a gentle cruiser on the map - but the chute (between the S.O.H. entrance and Talisman) usually ends up being one the hardest trails on the mountain by midday on powder days.  Ok thats a bit of hyperbole but not that much.   That surprises alot of people. 

But yeah, I consider my wife and youngest to be strong intermediate types and they have a blast there when its 100%.  You got the whole east side (save for a handful of Double Blacks) plus Wizard, Tali and sorcerer on the westside to challenge yourself on as an intermediate.  Plus some easier tree runs to pop into if you are intermediate who is tree-curious


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## ss20 (Jan 26, 2021)

Agreed 100% with @NY DirtBag .  You really have to be a solid intermediate skier to enjoy the blues at Magic.  Not much for low intermediate terrain....but conversely there's a lot of awesome beginner trails that a novice could navigate without being intimidated.  

In my opinion, the chute on Wizard makes it not a blue.  It's pretty tight, icy, and steep in that one part.


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## slatham (Jan 26, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Agreed 100% with @NY DirtBag .  You really have to be a solid intermediate skier to enjoy the blues at Magic.  Not much for low intermediate terrain....but conversely there's a lot of awesome beginner trails that a novice could navigate without being intimidated.
> 
> In my opinion, the chute on Wizard makes it not a blue.  It's pretty tight, icy, and steep in that one part.


Just a matter of time before Do Work and JamaicaMan get some dyno and fix the chute........


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## skithetrees (Jan 26, 2021)

slatham said:


> Just a matter of time before Do Work and JamaicaMan get some dyno and fix the chute........


Master plan years ago had some trails cut in between broomstick and the corner at the top of the chute, all funneling to top of talisman/sorcerer. Would be some great trails that would help with the problem, but would be some downsides.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 26, 2021)

Don't you mean the bottom of the chute? Also I think that would be quite steep and if cut sideways, steep terrain to achieve that. You would need to cut a long shelf through what I think is rock if you traversed to create a Broomstick type trail.


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## NYDB (Jan 27, 2021)

If they were thinking about making the chute easier I think just making it a bit wider would be enough.  Blasting the skiers right side of the trail and using the rubble to lift the grade at the bottom above the drainage would suffice.  I don't know if thats even possible.  

No need for new trails that would ruin some great tree lines.


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## skithetrees (Jan 27, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> If they were thinking about making the chute easier I think just making it a bit wider would be enough.  Blasting the skiers right side of the trail and using the rubble to lift the grade at the bottom above the drainage would suffice.  I don't know if thats even possible.
> 
> No need for new trails that would ruin some great tree lines.


Not saying they should, just that the previous owners had it in their master plan. One or two trails down from upper wizard to the top of talisman would relieve some pressure on the chute and still leave plenty of fun in tact. Blasting will be a tall order to gain meaningful width. It’s steep uphill skier’s right and steep downhill skier’s left. It’s been this way forever, doesn’t need a change, just would help make that side more accessible as skier visits grow.


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## skimagic (Jan 27, 2021)

The trail was shown on the old fuzzy orange map off a home computer that came out when they reopened in the early 90's i remember seeing it then and thought it would be a great idea since the outlet would be at that flat point above tailsman. 
  Another new one on that map was Trudys Run lower down off Carumba but wasn't sure of its purpose


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## ne_skier (Jan 27, 2021)

There were plans for a trail that would avoid the chute and go to the top of Talisman. It was supposed to be named Black Magic, and I'm pretty sure what is now Black Magic was called Lucifer at the time. The plan was seemingly scrapped in the mid 2000s and the Black Magic name was put where it is now.

I can't imagine it would have been any easier though, it looked as if it went straight down the fall line like Magician and I'd be surprised if someone who couldn't comfortably handle the chute on Wizard could handle that.

Here's the 2004 map which still showed the planned trail on the map. This was not displayed on the 2007 map (Also shown)


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## skimagic (Jan 27, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> There were plans for a trail that would avoid the chute and go to the top of Talisman. It was supposed to be named Black Magic, and I'm pretty sure what is now Black Magic was called Lucifer at the time. The plan was seemingly scrapped in the early-mid 2000s and the Black Magic name was put where it is now.
> 
> I can't imagine it would have been any easier though, it looked as if it went straight down the fall line like Magician and I'd be surprised if someone who couldn't comfortably handle the chute on Wizard could handle that.


It was going to be a double diamond, rightfully so, the pitch looks similar to master magician.  
 The chute is the chute, no need to change it. - a noon groom could help keep it manageable for low intermediates.


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## skithetrees (Jan 27, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> There were plans for a trail that would avoid the chute and go to the top of Talisman. It was supposed to be named Black Magic, and I'm pretty sure what is now Black Magic was called Lucifer at the time. The plan was seemingly scrapped in the mid 2000s and the Black Magic name was put where it is now.
> 
> I can't imagine it would have been any easier though, it looked as if it went straight down the fall line like Magician and I'd be surprised if someone who couldn't comfortably handle the chute on Wizard could handle that.
> 
> ...


That’s the map I was thinking of. Wouldn’t have made the chute easier, but might have cut traffic on it down. Also could have been a cool trail.


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## ne_skier (Jan 27, 2021)

skimagic said:


> It was going to be a double diamond, rightfully so, the pitch looks similar to master magician.
> The chute is the chute, no need to change it. - a noon groom could help keep it manageable for low intermediates.


I've always been curious about midday grooming, would you simply close off Wizard while they do a re-groom?


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## Newpylong (Jan 27, 2021)

The fact of the matter is unless snow is made on Middle Wizard, anyone coming down Upper Wizard is ultimately going for terrain far more difficult than the Chute.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 27, 2021)

My thoughts exactly.  The chute just makes sure the skier is ready for what lies ahead.  Changes the mind-set a bit.


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## MG Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

I agree with Rusty Groomer. I always try to straight ski the Chute to preserve it. If it is already bumped up like it was the first several times I skied it...skier beware! Missing the mountain this year. Enjoy it for me!


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## slatham (Jan 27, 2021)

Here are my thoughts FWIW.

Proposed trail - Yes this is a Black/double back. It only takes out one glade, and its tough, narrow and infrequently skied (needs deep snow). When it has adequate snow its a hoot. The core of the trail would take out a rock band that makes that area not skiable as a glade. It would also make the most f'ing incredible combo trail into Tali. Imagine if Magician went into Tali rather than HOM? (don't get me wrong, I love HOM, but you get the point)

Chute - Once the Black Quad gets done, the logical conclusion is more skier traffic, which leads to the logical conclusion of more snowmaking, which leads to the conclusion that Tali, Sorcerer and "middle" Wizard will be online (so far I'm 2 out off 3). If you assume only snowmaking trails are open, then this puts a HUGE and DANGEROUS burden on Chute. It must be widened. The Magic purists be damned (I am one, but I have to face facts).

Thats my thought process.


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## Do Work (Jan 27, 2021)

IMHO it would be easier to add a line to slide and make snow there/connect to groomers beyond Sorc than make a whole new trail on that windswept face that would be ungroomable anyways.  

It wouldn’t be any easier skiing than the chute but it would give another option from that point.


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## mtl1076 (Jan 27, 2021)

Let the chute bump up. Slows people down and gives you something to stop on. .


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## rocks860 (Jan 29, 2021)

I’m thinking of trying to get up there the week after next (quarantining and getting my covid test before obviously). How have the crowds been this year? Since I’m currently furloughed I figure I’ll try and go Thursday or Friday


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## NYDB (Jan 29, 2021)

10-15min last sat on red from 10:30-3.  I think we got like 4 laps in before there was any line at all.

Last Fri maybe 2-3 min wait on red from like 10-12.

It won't be busy thurs or Fri unless it's a powder day even during Feb break.


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## rocks860 (Jan 30, 2021)

I haven’t been out at all this year due to covid. Usually go to sugarbush for a week but that was out due to no quad packs and the uncertainty about quarantine and such. Would like to get out soon just requires so much planning ahead


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## Atomic (Jan 30, 2021)

Hit Magic on Thursday for my first day this year and there was silky pow everywhere including 5 inches that fell the night before. Parking lot B was about half-full but it was pretty much ski-on all day.  Phone froze up so no pics but safe to say the mountain is in fantastic shape. Run of the day was a very well groomed Broomstick to Heart of Magician, which was a soft-pillow dream and barely anyone on it - think I lapped it 5 times. Tali is all groomed out and never seemed to soften up in the mid-teen temps. There was even untracked to be found at the end of the day on the east side green/blues after my legs were cooked from the west side. Vibe was great per usual with off-and-on sun and blue sky with some pixie dust falling - a lot to love for 64 bucks.


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## Smellytele (Jan 30, 2021)

Was there today and it was still skiing great. Only skied 1 full groomer run as it was our last run and missed another run by 6 or 7 chairs. Crowds were minimal(4 maybe 5 deep) less than last week. Also tried out some new tele gear as they had a demo day. 
Loved the short very steep glades by the green lift warlock and white tiger.


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## ne_skier (Jan 30, 2021)

Looked at the chute on Wizard when I was there today. Looks like they could skim some rock off on the right side if they really wanted to. Also skied Pitch Black and those bunched-up chairs have moved, so it likely was intentional. Overall a great day of skiing, snow conditions were good but thin cover, the snow they’ll get on Monday should take care of that.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 31, 2021)

Figured powder day opening would be Tuesday not wed.  Should be enough snow on the ground by Tuesday 6am to qualify no?

I have no skin in this particular game just wondering what the rules are/were for future planning.


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 31, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Figured powder day opening would be Tuesday not wed.  Should be enough snow on the ground by Tuesday 6am to qualify no?
> 
> I have no skin in this particular game just wondering what the rules are/were for future planning.


I take it they normally open for powder days if they come on mon, tues, wed. The weather channel app is predicting 5-8 monday night, so I could see a powder day opening given it's more towards 8. Could be wrong, don't take my word for it.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 31, 2021)

^Right. But if there is enough snow on the ground by 6am tues, tues should be the powder day.  Not wed.  At least I thought those were the rules. Are there new covid powder day rules to comply with no day of ticket sales ? 

No big deal, just wondering.


----------



## slatham (Jan 31, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> ^Right. But if there is enough snow on the ground by 6am tues, tues should be the powder day.  Not wed.  At least I thought those were the rules. Are there new covid powder day rules to comply with no day of ticket sales ?
> 
> No big deal, just wondering.


Yes so I agree that the threshold will be met Tuesday am. But it is supposed to snow Tuesday and maybe into Tuesday night. So the deepest powder day will be Wednesday and that is what they are going for. Other factors - serious powder hounds will ski other areas Tuesday and then come to Magic for a full, clean powder day on Wednesday. Also, since the are open Thursday this allows consecutive days open, not open, close, open again. Finally, I don’t think here is the bang for the buck - or manpower - for both Tuesday and Wednesday.

Good base on the mountain. Put even 8” on it  and it will be great. 12”+ wow......


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 31, 2021)

Their website was saying maybe Wednesday nothing mentioned about Tuesday.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 31, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> ^Right. But if there is enough snow on the ground by 6am tues, tues should be the powder day.  Not wed.  At least I thought those were the rules. Are there new covid powder day rules to comply with no day of ticket sales ?
> 
> No big deal, just wondering.


Well, the "powder" day would be when the snow is done. That would be Wednesday as it's supposed to snow on and off well into Tuesday. More time to plow lots, clean chairs etc as well. The snow isn't going anywhere.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Feb 1, 2021)

Magic is in perfect shape for this coming snowfall. Sunday PM still had some lift lines. People would not quit. I am nursing a back problem so only groomers. Talisman is all groomed out and firm but holding an edge and super consistent. It skied really easy. Needs some bumps but the base is now dialed in. The groomed snow on Sorcerer was firmer and had an ice "incident" marked with poles.  It was not really fun. That will be a really solid base. The chute was actually fun for a few turns!


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 1, 2021)

Tree


JoeB-Z said:


> Magic is in perfect shape for this coming snowfall. Sunday PM still had some lift lines. People would not quit. I am nursing a back problem so only groomers. Talisman is all groomed out and firm but holding an edge and super consistent. It skied really easy. Needs some bumps but the base is now dialed in. The groomed snow on Sorcerer was firmer and had an ice "incident" marked with poles.  It was not really fun. That will be a really solid base. The chute was actually fun for a few turns!


Trees and ungroomed are set up nice for this new snow as well. Only place that had firm bumps was the trail leading to red line and goniff glade on Saturday


----------



## Do Work (Feb 1, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Figured powder day opening would be Tuesday not wed.  Should be enough snow on the ground by Tuesday 6am to qualify no?
> 
> I have no skin in this particular game just wondering what the rules are/were for future planning.



You're absolutely right by raw expected snow totals, but the storm is supposed to go all day through Tuesday so opening Weds with storm total everywhere just makes a lot more sense for us operationally.  People who are skiing free refills elsewhere on Tuesday can still come to Magic Weds for full untouched storm total deepness.  We've tried to communicate the Weds opener as early and as publicly as we can help people plan their powder skiing bonanza most effectively.


----------



## NYDB (Feb 1, 2021)

Anyone know what is going on 2/8 at Magic?  The past couple years Magic has opened the Monday after Superbowl.   

This year on their calendar it says private mountain rental.    Which I have no reason not to believe but I know companies have rented the mountain as part of a marketing maneuver and opened it up to all.  

If it is a private rental they may luck into a nice powder day.  And if it is RK miles I think this would be like 3 out of 4 years getting a powder day.


----------



## slatham (Feb 1, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Anyone know what is going on 2/8 at Magic?  The past couple years Magic has opened the Monday after Superbowl.
> 
> This year on their calendar it says private mountain rental.    Which I have no reason not to believe but I know companies have rented the mountain as part of a marketing maneuver and opened it up to all.
> 
> If it is a private rental they may luck into a nice powder day.  And if it is RK miles I think this would be like 3 out of 4 years getting a powder day.


Not sure who is renting, but I do know that Super Bowl Monday was to a large degree about the Super Bowl Sunday at BLT. That ain’t happening this year.


----------



## NYDB (Feb 3, 2021)

Any zipper crust today?


----------



## slatham (Feb 3, 2021)

No crust but snow was dense. Not a blower powder day but there is incredible coverage and great pow/packed pow now everywhere. Focused on the steepest with a rare day of Magician, Black Magic, Pitch Black, Gonif and Green Line. Plus several less gnarly runs. Lunch at T Bar was perfect. Lines during the morning rush with one clocked at 24 minutes but it calmed down to a more seasonable 10-15:and by lunch with the surprise opening of Green down to less than 5 minutes and zero on Green.


----------



## NYDB (Feb 3, 2021)

Nice. RL looking fat.  Will be up for Friday refresh with the family and staying through end of Feb. Very stoked about the coverage.


----------



## skimagic (Feb 3, 2021)

I  also made it there today and it was fantastic.  As usual, red line and black line got a bit beat up in the normal ledge spots, other than that, the mountain is skiing great. Small and large moguls  were forming fast. Glades were a blast, snow was dense but soft.   Here's a blurry pic.


----------



## ne_skier (Feb 4, 2021)

slatham said:


> No crust but snow was dense. Not a blower powder day but there is incredible coverage and great pow/packed pow now everywhere. Focused on the steepest with a rare day of Magician, Black Magic, Pitch Black, Gonif and Green Line. Plus several less gnarly runs. Lunch at T Bar was perfect. Lines during the morning rush with one clocked at 24 minutes but it calmed down to a more seasonable 10-15:and by lunch with the surprise opening of Green down to less than 5 minutes and zero on Green.


What are they serving at T-Bar? Haven't gotten the chance to take a look at the menu


----------



## NYDB (Feb 4, 2021)

Uh oh...red down for a couple days at least.    Still heading up for some green assisted uphill laps


----------



## tnt1234 (Feb 4, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Uh oh...red down for a couple days at least.


Oh no!  That's all they have isn't it?  Black isn't running yet, right?


----------



## NYDB (Feb 4, 2021)

Red is the only current summit lift.  Black is still being worked on.  Green is the mid mountain lift that is operational.  Its a skinners weekend.

'Serious part failure' doesn't sound good


----------



## urungus (Feb 4, 2021)

Oh man, what bad timing, they are so close to getting Black up and running


----------



## slatham (Feb 4, 2021)

They've really had a number of unfortunate set backs this season, many associated with Black Quad. And now this right in the midst of primo skiing. Tough tough business.


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 4, 2021)

slatham said:


> They've really had a number of unfortunate set backs this season, many associated with Black Quad. And now this right in the midst of primo skiing. Tough tough business.


Magic does not seem to have any magic, is this the beginning of the end?


----------



## NYDB (Feb 4, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Magic does not seem to have any magic, is this the beginning of the end?


I'm more in the bad speed bump camp myself.  It was bound to happen.

I still think its the beginning of the beginning of the new ownership.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2021)

Ended up cancelling for Saturday but could rebook if they get it back up. Now contemplating driving 2.5hrs to Jay. Worried about wind there.


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 4, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I'm more in the bad speed bump camp myself.  It was bound to happen.
> 
> I still think its the beginning of the beginning of the new ownership.


Who do you think will buy it?, why  isn’t the black quad running?


----------



## NYDB (Feb 4, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Who do you think will buy it?, why  isn’t the black quad running?


I meant more like the beginning of the middle with the new (current) management. It's only been 4 years I think. 

I dont know exactly why the snowbowl quad isn't running yet.   There have been many little delays and issues that will eventually work themselves out. And I'm sure covid didn't help last spring and summer


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 4, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I meant more like the beginning of the middle with the new (current) management. It's only been 4 years I think.
> 
> I dont know exactly why the snowbowl quad isn't running yet.   There have been many little delays and issues that will eventually work themselves out. And I'm sure covid didn't help last spring and summer


not getting the black quad up, seems to be a huge mistake, listened to Brian’s Fairbanks on some podcast and he ran it for awhile when bromley owned magic, he seemed kinda negative about magic, if he can’t make a place work who can.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 4, 2021)

Killington was late to get the Snowdon bubble six open by a week iirc and got tons of shit for it.  The whole Black fiasco has just left a bad taste in my mouth (well documented by my posts in this thread).  Should have worked on it slowly piece-by-piece without a completion date and just open it when it's ready like they did with Green.  Don't make promises to passholders, who now don't have a lift to the summit when SoVT is all-time.  It's two seasons they've been told there'll be a second summit lift running.  I get it...it's a crappy situation for everyone and I feel bad for management and Magic skiers.  But could things have been communicated differently?  Absolutely.  Undeniable at this point.  

I still love Magic.  Heck if it's still good in the spring I'd be more than happy to buy a lift ticket, full price once my Indypass is out of days.  I can't say that about many other mountains on that pass.


----------



## slatham (Feb 4, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I meant more like the beginning of the middle with the new (current) management. It's only been 4 years I think.
> 
> I dont know exactly why the snowbowl quad isn't running yet.   There have been many little delays and issues that will eventually work themselves out. And I'm sure covid didn't help last spring and summer


The Black Quad continues to run into engineering issues that obviously need to be dealt with perfectly. It also means they need to get the engineer involved who typically wouldn't be involved at this point. Magic is actively pushing (and paying) to get this done so its not from a lack of focus on Magics part. Unfortunately no real timeline until the engineer and Pfister say "this is what needs to be done". And given the way this has gone even then I doubt they give a timeline (which I would agree with). They shouldn't say much until VT Tramway says "Good to load".


----------



## ss20 (Feb 4, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> not getting the black quad up, seems to be a huge mistake, listened to Brian’s Fairbanks on some podcast and he ran it for awhile when bromley owned magic, he seemed kinda negative about magic, if he can’t make a place work who can.



He makes his money through slopeside lodging, condos, snowmaking, grooming, and fast lifts.  Magic does not/should not have any of those things (to the degree that Fairbanks would want it).  But at the same time, tough to make money without those things.  

I honestly would like to see a co-op system like MRG.  I'm not sure if Magic has the same allure of MRG to make that work.


----------



## slatham (Feb 4, 2021)

ss20 said:


> He makes his money through slopeside lodging, condos, snowmaking, grooming, and fast lifts.  Magic does not/should not have any of those things (to the degree that Fairbanks would want it).  But at the same time, tough to make money without those things.
> 
> I honestly would like to see a co-op system like MRG.  I'm not sure if Magic has the same allure of MRG to make that work.


I heard the pod cast with Fairbanks and it seemed to me he really wasn't up to speed on current situation and progress that the new ownership & Management team has made. That said, he knows the trial and tribulations of running a ski area.

Current ownership group is strong and well funded, mountain is well managed (lift installs notwithstanding), significant progress has been made, and skier support has increased each year since new owners. Bumps in the road, not roadblocks.


----------



## MG Skier (Feb 4, 2021)

I read a social media feed about Red being down. Huge bummer, for those that can get there. (I can't!)  They have so many positives going for them at Magic. Yes, the Black Chair which wasn't immediately in the business plan kind of fell in their lap, I'm glad they went for it and lets face it...you can't control a pandemic as far as when the contractors could come in and work and EVERYTHING takes forever times TWO right now.  Black lift gets completed when it does and when it is safe! The Only Way! 

I hope for Magic and those that can get there that Red gets some love and can spin soon. I'm thinking good thoughts from 3 hours away!

Hey, at least there is a Green chair and a nifty new T-Bar close by!

Cheers!


----------



## ne_skier (Feb 4, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Who do you think will buy it?, why  isn’t the black quad running?


Black has been plagued with both the troubles of running a small ski area as well as two crappy construction seasons. 2018 wasn't even a construction season at all, as permitting went into October, and much of 2020's season was consumed by Covid. There's still a while to come, and I honestly don't see it being done for an opening this winter. The loading and unloading ramps have yet to be built, chairs are still without safety bars (And that weird bunching-up thing still exists) and the lift would have to be inspected before opening to the public.


----------



## machski (Feb 4, 2021)

I hate to say this, but installing a used lift without the OEM being the installer can cause fits.  Some other examples would be when LBO moved the GMX at Sugarbush (Poma HSQ) but used Doppelmyer to move.  That lift ran fitfully right into Win's tenure and IMHO only became solidly reliable about 2 or 3 years ago.  Granted, the move and open was originally done on time.  Snow bowl to become black required a lengthened line amongst other changes from what had been engineered for Snowbowl.  Sure there are a few independent contractors out there, but if you go that route to save $$ up front, it occasionally doesn't pay off in the end.  I feel terrible this saga has dragged on for Magic.  I do wonder being in hindsight if the management would have chosen a different route.


----------



## tnt1234 (Feb 4, 2021)

ss20 said:


> He makes his money through slopeside lodging, condos, snowmaking, grooming, and fast lifts.  Magic does not/should not have any of those things (to the degree that Fairbanks would want it).  But at the same time, tough to make money without those things.
> 
> I honestly would like to see a co-op system like MRG.  I'm not sure if Magic has the same allure of MRG to make that work.


I think Magic has the allure.  But they don't have the latitude.


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 4, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Red is the only current summit lift.  Black is still being worked on.  Green is the mid mountain lift that is operational.  Its a skinners weekend.
> 
> 'Serious part failure' doesn't sound
> 
> ...


Bousquet is having issues getting their triple installed, I guess these things happen, any word on what the serious part failure is?


----------



## cdskier (Feb 4, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Bousquet is having issues getting their triple installed, I guess these things happen, any word on what the serious part failure is?



Coupling failure on the main shaft.



> In terms of getting Red Lift back in service, we are sparing no expense and wasting no time to try and get her repaired as quickly and safely as possible with the goal of a new coupling in place on the shaft by Saturday morning. But it will take significant logistics and we are pulling in Pfister Mountain Services to help us with the re-install. Travis has lined up the parts out of Buffalo NY, but some machine tooling is needed as well which we have lined up for tonight/early Friday morning there. Once that is complete, Matt will be picking everything up late morning there and driving back to install it all Friday evening (12 hour round trip for Matt!). If all goes well, then summit skiing is a go for the weekend. But it is certainly not a given, so we will keep you all posted.


----------



## Newpylong (Feb 5, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Magic does not seem to have any magic, is this the beginning of the end?


Seriously?

The Mountain Manager drove all through the night to get the part and now he'll work probably for another two days without sleep with the rest of mountain ops to hopefully fix the lift. This was communicated to their customers, who undoubtedly appreciate this team's effort.

Also, Fairbanks never took over a ski area that for all intents and purposes was dead. They all were in decent shape, had a strong customer base and were well capitalized. He knows how to run a resort but his (outdated) viewpoint on Magic does not hold much water with me as someone who has operated a ski area that was also on the brink of death. The Magic team's effort are nothing short of herculean.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Feb 5, 2021)

good luck Magic!   Total bummer, but at least it was this weekend and not next weekend.  Seems like the place is going far and above to build and expand their brand.  All while on a much smaller budget with much larger capital improvements than many mountains both big and small are taking on.   This is just a blip on the radar for this place.   

I will visit someday I promise!


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## ne_skier (Feb 5, 2021)

Not particularly the most joyous thing to happen on Red's 50th season, but hey, shit happens
Hopefully they can get it up and running for the weekend, they're clearly wasting no time getting the part. Definitely a great day to be a skinner.


Newpylong said:


> Also, Fairbanks never took over a ski area that for all intents and purposes was dead. They all were in decent shape, had a strong customer base and were well capitalized. He knows how to run a resort but his (outdated) viewpoint on Magic does not hold much water with me as someone who has operated a ski area that was also on the brink of death. The Magic team's effort are nothing short of herculean.


The fact that they even took on Magic was pretty incredible. Just 4 years ago, Magic was struggling to make snow in December, had virtually no snowmaking to begin with, only one operable lift, and sat in the shadow of Bromley and Stratton. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Magic would have shut down again in 2016 had it not been for the purchase.




__





						Concerns Mounting at Magic Mountain - NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com
					





					www.newenglandskiindustry.com


----------



## MG Skier (Feb 5, 2021)

I agree, great hustle to find a new part, prep it and try to install it to salvage the weekend. Best wishes on making that happen Magic!


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 5, 2021)

Aw man, I was planning on going up next Thursday, hopefully red is up and running by then


----------



## skithetrees (Feb 5, 2021)

Skiing was fantastic today. Red being down forced me to explore some great options off green that I wouldn’t have otherwise tried.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 5, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> Skiing was fantastic today. Red being down forced me to explore some great options off green that I wouldn’t have otherwise tried.



white kitten <3


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 5, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> Skiing was fantastic today. Red being down forced me to explore some great options off green that I wouldn’t have otherwise tried.


White tiger, Warlock and greenline are all fun


----------



## skithetrees (Feb 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> White tiger, Warlock and greenline are all fun


Absolutely!


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 5, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> Absolutely!


One issue is that at the unload the chair is too low on the green chair. Made for 6 year olds


----------



## skithetrees (Feb 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> One issue is that at the unload the chair is too low on the green chair. Made for 6 year olds


Sure is!  Mine was skiing with me, so it worked out. Haha. White kitten to white out was run of the day for him.


----------



## ne_skier (Feb 5, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> One issue is that at the unload the chair is too low on the green chair. Made for 6 year olds


Knee workout in and of itself


----------



## JoeB-Z (Feb 6, 2021)

All fixed. On Facebook too. https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/...DcDIIVYWtkToyJ58FNr1uWaHtJYsMR9PkeHzydI-tzSUw


----------



## zoomzoom (Feb 6, 2021)

am familiar with output shaft couplings used on Heron lifts.  was it the lower gear coupling that failed?  

the long driveshaft has a gear coupling on the bottom end and alignment is critical for good performance.  shimming the gearbox to accomplish this is fiddly to say the least, as other components are on gearbox input side that need correct alignment too.  annual inspections are recommended to check for proper tooth alignment/excessive wear.  am hoping magic bought two of these, one for spare.  magic's motto could be:  "never give in, never give up, our customers deserve no less". 

i believe that Poma and Dopplemayr tend to shy away from relocation projects, unless strict quality control measures are undertaken on all components.  i.e. strip and inspect gearbox and rollback devices, motors rewound, full service on tensioning systems etc.  iirc, 100% NDT on grips and chairs is required, along with testing or replacing the grip springpacks.  towers of course will have to be extended or shortened as the terrain dictates, QC is easier to monitor at the factory.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 6, 2021)

Great job Matt!


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## slatham (Feb 6, 2021)

Great news that Red got up and running so quickly. Testament to the capabilities of the Magic team. I also think what just happened with Red shows how the projects under Magic Management & Operations team control get done. Installing a lift like Black is not under their direct control, its a third party contractor (with a number of sub-contractors). That said, having a relationship with a local third party lift team (vs Dop or Poma etc) means they can be called in for emergency assistance and have familiarity with staff and lifts. Also, to a point made above, I don't think Dop and Poma really play in the area of re-installing an old lift, unless maybe if that client is also buying some new lifts. 

Fingers crossed that the Pfister team has a breakthrough soon with the challenges they face with Black.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 6, 2021)

Hmm now I’m seeing snow forecasted for Thursday night into Friday, maybe I should go up Friday instead


----------



## NYDB (Feb 6, 2021)

Today was sweet


----------



## slatham (Feb 6, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Today was sweet
> 
> View attachment 50291


Wow beautiful refill on what on Wednesday was incredible. Pitch Black is a great addition to the gnarly steeps of Magic.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 6, 2021)

slatham said:


> Wow beautiful refill on what on Wednesday was incredible. Pitch Black is a great addition to the gnarly steeps of Magic.



the skiers left pitch black is super cliffy and fun. Bolton skied amazing today. Magic tmrw


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 7, 2021)

Trying to decide whether to go Thursday or Friday. Sounds like Friday will have some new snow but do you guys think it will be way more crowded with the holiday weekend?


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 7, 2021)

rocks860 said:


> Trying to decide whether to go Thursday or Friday. Sounds like Friday will have some new snow but do you guys think it will be way more crowded with the holiday weekend?


won't be as bad as Sun-Mon. What is your definition of crowded? Magic crowded is a hell of a lot different than Mt Snow crowded.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 7, 2021)

Yeah that’s very true, basically I’m wondering whether the difference in “crowds” would be worth going Thursday instead of Friday. Right now I’m leaning Friday


----------



## NYDB (Feb 7, 2021)

rocks860 said:


> Trying to decide whether to go Thursday or Friday. Sounds like Friday will have some new snow but do you guys think it will be way more crowded with the holiday weekend?


Either day will be great.  Refresh today and Tuesday will have the mountain in primo condition Thursday even with the mountain rentals happening.

But I wouldn't worry about Friday liftlines either unless it ends up snowing like a foot that day


----------



## Do Work (Feb 11, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> not getting the black quad up, seems to be a huge mistake, listened to Brian’s Fairbanks on some podcast and he ran it for awhile when bromley owned magic, he seemed kinda negative about magic, if he can’t make a place work who can.



LOOOOOL...  Well the key to Magic's success in our tenure has been realizing *what it isn't* as much as paying attention to *what it is*.  Management 101 will tell you that differentiation is absolutely an alternative to "keeping up with the Joneses" provided that your offering is in fact worthy of that differentiation you're marketing.  Fairbanks wanted Magic to be another Bromley or Stratton and that would require tens of millions of dollars to do and it would STILL be behind them- so in his mind yeah, it's not a win because it didn't fit into the mold he was trying to cram it into.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 11, 2021)

love it man. do you work the liftline or lift loading on Sundays? if so we've crossed paths and i should say hello more properly. pink poles, pink black crows, grey outerwear.

every time I've been up to magic this year I've been struck by how busy it has been without feeling overcrowded. it seems people are catching on and that y'all are having a banner jan-feb. happy for you.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Feb 11, 2021)

Do Work works everywhere. He buzzes around like a hummingbird! You could spot him doing 10 different things in a days skiing. At the lifts I think he is covering people for their breaks.


----------



## Do Work (Feb 11, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> love it man. do you work the liftline or lift loading on Sundays? if so we've crossed paths and i should say hello more properly. pink poles, pink black crows, grey outerwear.
> 
> every time I've been up to magic this year I've been struck by how busy it has been without feeling overcrowded. it seems people are catching on and that y'all are having a banner jan-feb. happy for you.



I think I commented on those crows last weekend.  I’m always in all black with a chest radio pack & usually obnoxious sunglasses on.  I try to get over to help with breaks at the main lift midday or in the afternoon so I can see how the guests are doing and check on the lifts but if there’s a big project I might not make it.


----------



## Do Work (Feb 11, 2021)

slatham said:


> Wow beautiful refill on what on Wednesday was incredible. Pitch Black is a great addition to the gnarly steeps of Magic.



My favorite run on the whole mountain.  It’s so steep and with so much undulation or cliffy spots it just makes it so playful on a pow day.  You can send a huge air pretty much anywhere, it’s amazing.  I wish it went like that all the way to the lodge lol


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 11, 2021)

Do Work said:


> I think I commented on those crows last weekend.  I’m always in all black with a chest radio pack & usually obnoxious sunglasses on.  I try to get over to help with breaks at the main lift midday or in the afternoon so I can see how the guests are doing and check on the lifts but if there’s a big project I might not make it.



right on, yes, i told you i like the crows but I'm skeptical bc they had to warranty me a new pair after last year's model broke in a very whacky and suspicious way after less than 20 days on skis. right on dude, i will introduce myself next time. love what you guys are doing up there and am enjoying my gradual slide into magic cult fanboy (2 years of quad packs, then this year sunday pass+indy pass, next year prob full pass, next year prob condo owner   )


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 11, 2021)

Great day at magic today, early runs there was so much untracked it was crazy. I mostly stuck to the hallows as it appeared no one was skiing in there.


----------



## slatham (Feb 11, 2021)

Do Work doing the work he loves most.


----------



## slatham (Feb 11, 2021)

rocks860 said:


> Great day at magic today, early runs there was so much untracked it was crazy. I mostly stuck to the hallows as it appeared no one was skiing in there.


Yes after the logging and then volunteer clearing the Hallows have become something very special.


----------



## Atomic (Feb 11, 2021)

Another killer Thursday - whole mountain is locked up solid with creamy soft on top all day. Trail pic is looking back up Heart of Magician - bumped-up playground.


----------



## ThatGuy (Feb 11, 2021)

Was a beautiful day, got to end it on chair 16


----------



## ThatGuy (Feb 12, 2021)

Still lots of fresh snow in the woods


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## jaytrem (Feb 12, 2021)

Great day at Magic today!  Skied bumps bumps and more bumps.  I do like bumps.  Pitch Black is indeed a nice addition.


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## NYDB (Feb 16, 2021)

Slushtastic afternoon here.  Should be coral reef on the natural terrain after tonight. 

Base should be locked in for the duration.  Hope thurs-fri delivers.


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## ne_skier (Feb 16, 2021)

How many inches is Magic expected to get by the end of the week? I've heard mixed reports, from virtually nothing to a foot.


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## slatham (Feb 17, 2021)

Magic weather team forecasting 2-5”. Storm has been trending south thus lower amounts than previous. Have to see if that trend stops or hopefully reverses a bit. But 2-5” is current forecast.


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## ne_skier (Feb 17, 2021)

Idk what it is about this season..this is a great snow year for South VT but an even better one for NJ and MA front yards


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## NYDB (Feb 17, 2021)

Yeah euro has it way south.  Latest Gfs still looks OK for so VT.  We'll see who wins out.


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## kingslug (Feb 17, 2021)

I think Utah won....


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## slatham (Feb 17, 2021)

kingslug said:


> I think Utah won....


Out West was low tide until 2-3 weeks ago. But they seem to one making up for it!


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 17, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Yeah euro has it way south.  Latest Gfs still looks OK for so VT.  We'll see who wins out.



single chair weather blog is more bullish, saying 4-8" as far north as the mad river valley

opensnow seems to believe the high end is about 6" and will be in southern vt and the berkshires

skiology matt is just annoying.

anyone skiing today? how bad was the firm up? fingers crossed for thurs>sat, 4"+ is enough to cover the crud and make it ski nice. I'll be there this sunday.


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## ne_skier (Feb 17, 2021)

Hopefully they can get enough snow to coat the stumps on Pitch Black and the rocks on the steep part of Redline (Right below tower 15) to keep them open going into March


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## ThatGuy (Feb 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> anyone skiing today? how bad was the firm up? fingers crossed for thurs>sat, 4"+ is enough to cover the crud and make it ski nice. I'll be there this sunday.


Surprisingly good amount of people here for a weekday. Still ski on though, I'm guessing a bunch of people booked expecting a pow day and were sadly disappointed. The conditions are prime ice coast as expected but a few inches and we’ll be golden again.


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## NYDB (Feb 17, 2021)

Yeah, I don’t know about that.  A couples of inches will make the groomers awesome again especially after the 2nd groom tonight.  But I think a couple of inches on the natural surface would just make it dangerous.  

It’s shiny.  

4+ might be ok If it’s dense.

current forecast is for 3-4   trending the wrong way.   

beautiful day .  Felt warm in the sunshine.


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## ne_skier (Feb 17, 2021)

Fingers crossed some more storms turn up later this month, one that trends a bit more northern


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## urungus (Feb 17, 2021)

Latest Alpine Update, doesn’t look good for Black Chair :

On the Black Quad lift front, there always seems to be something. And, the engineering firm who designed the lift has come back with quite a few changes that need to be implemented by Pfister Mountain Services, including changing out some sheave assembly wheel combinations at a few towers and a major overhaul of tower 13 cross arm and uphill sheave assembly. None of this is a quick fix at this point in our construction phase and comes as unwelcome news. And, of course, tower 13 is in a very difficult spot to get to, especially for what equipment will be needed to execute the cross arm changes. No timetable or budget as been provided as of yet. We will continue to keep you posted as news warrants. Certainly frustrating after all this time as we'd like to see our money put to good use for you. All I can say is that the Quad will be a part of our future here at Magic so we can expand uphill capacity and lift redundancy as we grow.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 18, 2021)

Phish'83 said:


> Ya know, VR has been getting hammered about the Attitash Triple not running all winter. So I don't know why Magic keeps getting a pass....



i dont know attitash well but isn't the triple their only summit access? 

and vail resorts is a publicly traded mega corporation with infinite money, and magic is an independent group of hard core skiers who brought a gem back from the brink. not comparable


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## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2021)

A) Magic has another lift right next to the quad.
B) Magic is an independent operator that has brought Magic back from being on life support, not Vail Resorts or their predecessor Peaks who had 13 years to replace the lift.  Most folks are just happy Magic is running and the improvements they have made are phenomenal.

The Summit Triple at Attitash has been running since Christmas though as far as I know.


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2021)

Phish'83 said:


> Ya know, VR has been getting hammered about the Attitash Triple not running all winter. So I don't know why Magic keeps getting a pass....


Because Magic has legitimate funding issues and has to work with another company (Pfister)'s budget and timeline, plus all the other companies they subcontract with. I've personally made my opinion clear that they shouldn't give out dates until they get the lift inspected, not that it affects me, I just think it's bad PR for no benefit, and after they couldn't make the MLK deadline they stopped making promises. There's a difference between a resort legitimately trying to get a lift installed but cannot do so as fast as other resorts due to lower-than-average funds and multiple problems popping up, and a resort conglomeration that refuses to give a penny to the east and leaves their skiers in the dark with broken, crappy infrastructure that they have zero intention of fixing or replacing.


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## cdskier (Feb 18, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i dont know attitash well but isn't the triple their only summit access?
> 
> and vail resorts is a publicly traded mega corporation with infinite money, and magic is an independent group of hard core skiers who brought a gem back from the brink. not comparable



Plus if the triple isn't running at Attitash, that's a choice and/or staffing issue at the moment (and if it has had mechanical issues this year, then that's again either VR or Peaks failure to replace an aging lift), That is completely different than Magic having an engineering issue with a new lift install (that fell in their laps and wasn't even originally planned). It isn't like Magic hasn't been trying to get the lift install completed. The two scenarios could not be more different.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 18, 2021)

Magic has been transparent with everyone the whole time about challenges and delays while also facing the budget constraints of an independent resort.  Attitash is owned by a mega corp who could resolve the issue easily but VRs priorities don’t seem to be on making the east coast resort experience better.


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## Cobbold (Feb 18, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Magic has been transparent with everyone the whole time about challenges and delays while also facing the budget constraints of an independent resort.  Attitash is owned by a mega corp who could resolve the issue easily but VRs priorities don’t seem to be on making the east coast resort experience better.


Looks like at big crowd at atitash today, per the webcam, is it always this crowded midweek?


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## skimagic (Feb 18, 2021)

Additionally, magic skiers have been riding the red chair forever  and are not demanding that the new chair open ASAP.  Even with the 20+ minute waits at times, people are ok  the red chair.  The new black char is the future, it can wait another season.  the future is always an abstract thought at magic -nothing to get worked up about.  Just go ski and have a good time.   

 I've probably ridden the old black chair total of 3 days  since the reopening of Magic in the 90's.  i've ridden the green chair twice just to check it out.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 18, 2021)

i've rode black on only one day ever when they had the ski the east freeride tour on black line. that was a fun day.


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2021)

Rode it a few times the last year it ran. Despite being a total money pit it was a pretty cool lift, the triple chairs on the return side would fly over you as you waited in line








						Black – Magic Mountain, VT
					

Visit the post for more.




					liftblog.com


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## jaytrem (Feb 18, 2021)

Last time I rode it they were giving out free Twix bars as you briefly waited to ride.  It was 1988, funny what you remember.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Looks like at big crowd at atitash today, per the webcam, is it always this crowded midweek?


Vacation week in Mass and other NE states. most of NH is next week though.


----------



## machski (Feb 18, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Vacation week in Mass and other NE states. most of NH is next week though.


Except for Kennett, they are this week.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2021)

machski said:


> Except for Kennett, they are this week.


Right so they can work during mass vaca week


----------



## skimagic (Feb 18, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Rode it a few times the last year it ran. Despite being a total money pit it was a pretty cool lift, the triple chairs on the return side would fly over you as you waited in line
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember  thinking while on it, the chair should be condemned- it was  a rusty creaky lumbering ride to the top.  The off-load just cleared the top of "ramp" by a few inches, it was like you landed at the top rather than off-loaded. - worse than the green chair off-load.   But I did see a guy going down the upper lift line on telegear,  hopping a log then going down the insane ledge -  it inspired me to buy a tele setup which i still  hack around on and to ski the mountain as much as i can.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 18, 2021)

I've ridden Black a few times. I thought it was worn out junk. I called up the lift inspector for his opinion and he thought it was OK. So I kept riding it the few times it was running.


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## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2021)

The bottom terminal of black was like some steam punk art device


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2021)

Super rare terminal design, the original manufacturer (Pohlig) only built one lift outside of Europe, that lift being Black (Then Blue). Thorner chose them after touring their facilities in Koln, Germany. Lift later received triple chairs in 1986 from the old Bear Mtn Triple at Killington, of course from a different brand. It was later upgraded with a Hall tower (American brand) and multiple Mueller sheaves (Swiss brand). Ironically, the addition of the triple chairs resulted in no increase in capacity from the double chairs, as they had to be spaced far apart to reduce strain on the motor.


			http://www.chairlift.org/pics/ma/ma14.jpg


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## skithetrees (Feb 18, 2021)

For some odd reason I loved that bucket of bolts. Maybe fond memories of it from when I was young back in the 80s and early 90s. That said, it had outlived its service life and was kept going on a wing and a prayer. The replacement with the quad was an unexpected gift given all the other work to be done and a budget to manage. While it has taken longer to complete than intended (ask my wife about projects I do around the house—i give Magic full credit here), Magic is no worse off for now than if they had kept the triple. In the interim, we get a cool new trail and long term we get a great second lift.


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> For some odd reason I loved that bucket of bolts. Maybe fond memories of it from when I was young back in the 80s and early 90s. That said, it had outlived its service life and was kept going on a wing and a prayer. The replacement with the quad was an unexpected gift given all the other work to be done and a budget to manage. While it has taken longer to complete than intended (ask my wife about projects I do around the house—i give Magic full credit here), Magic is no worse off for now than if they had kept the triple. In the interim, we get a cool new trail and long term we get a great second lift.


Pitch Black is awesome, no doubt about it. Back around the time of the purchase I thought it would be replaced by the old Barnstormer lift at Haystack, now at West, NY.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Feb 18, 2021)

Last I remember riding Black was maybe 2013 or 14, it was a weekday powder day, not huge but decent. Happened to be Valentine's day also I think Red was running as well but I didn't ride it that day because, remarkably, Black was running at full capacity, as a triple, and so there was a singles line which I used all day. I do remember wondering if Black was "straining" a bit, but it held up! For the day at least....


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2021)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Last I remember riding Black was maybe 2013 or 14, it was a weekday powder day, not huge but decent. Happened to be Valentine's day also I think Red was running as well but I didn't ride it that day because, remarkably, Black was running at full capacity, as a triple, and so there was a singles line which I used all day. I do remember wondering if Black was "straining" a bit, but it held up! For the day at least....


Even that's rare, every time I was there it overheated by 12. Before the replacement came along I think they might have been considering a motor replacement, but you guys probably would know more about that than I do


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## NYDB (Feb 18, 2021)

Last black lift experience I had- 2 years ago I think- the lifties screaming at my oldest kid and goddaughter to lower the safety bar but they couldn’t move it.  they told me they couldn’t budge it - it was rusted in place. 

looking forward to the new quad debut 12/11/21.


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## Newpylong (Feb 18, 2021)

machski said:


> Except for Kennett, they are this week.


And all of the Upper Valley which is this week as well.


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## slatham (Feb 18, 2021)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Last I remember riding Black was maybe 2013 or 14, it was a weekday powder day, not huge but decent. Happened to be Valentine's day also I think Red was running as well but I didn't ride it that day because, remarkably, Black was running at full capacity, as a triple, and so there was a singles line which I used all day. I do remember wondering if Black was "straining" a bit, but it held up! For the day at least....


Well Feb 14 2014 was a Friday and it was a huge powder day - 18”+. My wife told me to go ahead and ski magic. Not a day I’ll forget.

edit - based on some pics I just looked at Black wasn’t running.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Feb 18, 2021)

slatham said:


> Well Feb 14 2014 was a Friday and it was a huge powder day - 18”+. My wife told me to go ahead and ski magic. Not a day I’ll forget.
> 
> edit - based on some pics I just looked at Black wasn’t running.


I looked up my photos and notes. Yes - 2/14/14 is the day I was referring to! And yep, 18". Perhaps you're better at finding powder than I am but I do remember everything being verry filled in. The "drops" on Redline were basically rollovers with maybe just a foot of rock to hop over. Top of Magician was roped off all day but completely covered with smooth windbuff. We'll have to agree to disagree on what chairs were running - I have several photos of a well-loaded Black, taken while riding it. But it seems I mis-remembered about Red; I have photos showing Red chairs loaded with 18" of snow, at 1:30 (PM). Im actually very surprised I had forgotten that - one of my highlights from the day was skiing Redline with no audience overhead.


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## NYDB (Feb 19, 2021)

It's a lovely day here.  Light snow/ snow showers all day so far. Coming down pretty good right now.   Trails that were groomed this week are super nice.

Natural terrain sure looks nice, but the hard crust is lurking under the 4-5" of new light snow so it is super technical.  Took an early run down broomstick to bl and it was ok on the flatter bits but the steeper stuff is still fucked.  Skiable but not the funnest with the death crust lurking.

Dipped into a few tree shots but the crust is nfg. 

Nice light crowd today.  5min or less wait for red


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## ne_skier (Feb 20, 2021)

You guys think there’s any chance of some more ungroomed opening up soon? With no snow in the forecast seems like it just has to be skied down


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## NYDB (Feb 20, 2021)

Its possible. 

By the end of the day there were tracks on everything except redline, pitch black, magician, witch and goniff.  

Where there were tracks on natural steeper stuff it just scraped it back down to the ice/crust. The snow that fell was very light and fluffy.

 Imo the best bet is to stay off it and after the (hopefully) snow Monday and warm up mid week maybe there will be some sort of bonding process with the crust layer.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 20, 2021)

Witch and Goniff were open today, including Witch down to Black Line. A number of people poached Red Line. The groomed surfaces on the West side were really nice. Very easy skiing. A Dad was taking his maybe 7 year old daughter down Talisman for what looked like a first time and he picked a great day for it, She was having a ball. Sorceror is in great shape also. Talisman will be closed tomorrow until the race is over.


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## ne_skier (Feb 21, 2021)

All trails reopened except for Black Magic. Sounds like a vague question but I’ve been hearing it a lot from friends, do the bumps seem more firm than they were a week ago? I’d have to assume so, haven’t been following Magic’s weather too closely though


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 21, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> All trails reopened except for Black Magic. Sounds like a vague question but I’ve been hearing it a lot from friends, do the bumps seem more firm than they were a week ago? I’d have to assume so, haven’t been following Magic’s weather too closely though


I’m on red chair now. There’s like 4” of blower on top of a very firm ice crust layer. If you poke the snow your pole stops at the ice, if you apply some force you burst thru to the old dry powder below. It’s sporty skiing. The low angle glades where you can float along are quite nice and basically untouched. Steeper terrain is fuckin sporty tho. Still a ton of snow and we just need more to bury the crud layer. Gorgeous day today and a nice size crowd for magic without the lines being tooooo crazy


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 21, 2021)

To agree on sporty, I saw two guys on boards in the woods off Red Line yesterday. They worked back toward the trail rather quickly. And they look like good boarders.


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## slatham (Feb 21, 2021)

Sporty!

Need edes even though there's some pow.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 21, 2021)

The low angle glades were great today and still have lots of untracked snow.


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## ne_skier (Feb 21, 2021)

Anyone ski Wardrobe? What's it like?


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 21, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Anyone ski Wardrobe? What's it like?


Top of wardrobe was not great, but fine, but the lower section where the pitch mellows was great. Basically untracked pick your line. Stay light on the feet and don’t make jagged turns, avoid the crunchhh. Ran it 3x


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 22, 2021)

I've somehow finally convinced the lady it's worth it to get out early.


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## NYDB (Feb 22, 2021)

^was that friday?  that was such a nice day.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 22, 2021)

Yes, Friday.  Perfect grooming with a bit a fresh on top.


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## ne_skier (Feb 22, 2021)

Looked at the forecast and today might bring 3-5 for downtown Londonderry, probably some more on the mountain. If they don't open up early this week Thursday would be a pretty good day to be skiing


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## ThatGuy (Feb 25, 2021)

Snow was pretty good today even after the warmth. Not sure how it will be after freezing temps tonight and the weekends rain but hoping the best.


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## NYDB (Feb 26, 2021)

Question on uphill routes - the current mandatory uphill route follows the timberridge return trail (a popular snowmobile route) for a bit before it turns back towards magic at the intersection.  Can get a bit too exciting getting buzzed by snowmobiles for a short bit.  

Are there any plans to create a route through the woods up there at some point that doesn't follow the old Timberridge return trail?


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## Do Work (Feb 26, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Question on uphill routes - the current mandatory uphill route follows the timberridge return trail (a popular snowmobile route) for a bit before it turns back towards magic at the intersection.  Can get a bit too exciting getting buzzed by snowmobiles for a short bit.
> 
> Are there any plans to create a route through the woods up there at some point that doesn't follow the old Timberridge return trail?




I'd love to utilize more of the old logging routes that crisscross over on that side to keep all traffic both off the trail and on our property, but it'll take a lot of work to get passable.  Maybe this summer but I'm not holding my breath.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

If anyone is skiing today how are the conditions holding up? Yesterday was really nice with the temps hovering around freezing.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 27, 2021)

This am was something else.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 27, 2021)

always fun to shred with JRMagic...


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## Slidebrook87 (Feb 27, 2021)

Went to Magic today for the first time in 3 years. I was really impressed by the mountain as a whole, especially the terrain. It seemed to be well managed and there were some great natural runs and glades. Definitely can’t be beat for southern Vermont. At around 11:00 the lines for Red were 20 minutes or so, but after the rain started it was a ghost town. No lines at all after 12:30-1:00 ish.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 27, 2021)

Oh gosh they were good. I had a weird ski day as I had a 14 hour work day before and I'm no youngster. So after scooting the dog out I returned to bed. Noon OMG. And I live a solid 45 minutes away. The initial state roads to Springfield were very funky. So I got there at 1:45, got my tickets. In line at 2. Lines evaporated. Skied 6 runs before last chair. Conditions were fabulous. Whole west side had just softish, incredibly consistent surfaces on the groomed. Warmed up on Wizard. Lovely. Then Talisman, Sorcerer, Talisman, a really fast run on Trick to Showoff to make last chair. That backfired as Showoff had heavy loose snow and a really dense fog. But I made that chair. So then Talisman. Nothing wrong with Sorcerer but I like to explore all the lines on Talisman. The steep pitch at the end was magical. I have sworn off double black diamonds as I age. I was very tempted to take a stab at Goniff or Twilight, but maybe tomorrow. I am really thinking about a Pitch Black run tomorrow for the bucket list. I saw four ski patrollers on Red Line. They skied the last pitch a bit defensively as I do. But solid. Back to conditions. It will firm up tonight and there will be a fabulous period at some point. The woods will be for the talented.


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 28, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Oh gosh they were good. I had a weird ski day as I had a 14 hour work day before and I'm no youngster. So after scooting the dog out I returned to bed. Noon OMG. And I live a solid 45 minutes away. The initial state roads to Springfield were very funky. So I got there at 1:45, got my tickets. In line at 2. Lines evaporated. Skied 6 runs before last chair. Conditions were fabulous. Whole west side had just softish, incredibly consistent surfaces on the groomed. Warmed up on Wizard. Lovely. Then Talisman, Sorcerer, Talisman, a really fast run on Trick to Showoff to make last chair. That backfired as Showoff had heavy loose snow and a really dense fog. But I made that chair. So then Talisman. Nothing wrong with Sorcerer but I like to explore all the lines on Talisman. The steep pitch at the end was magical. I have sworn off double black diamonds as I age. I was very tempted to take a stab at Goniff or Twilight, but maybe tomorrow. I am really thinking about a Pitch Black run tomorrow for the bucket list. I saw four ski patrollers on Red Line. They skied the last pitch a bit defensively as I do. But solid. Back to conditions. It will firm up tonight and there will be a fabulous period at some point. The woods will be for the talented.


Wrong. It never softened up. Sorceror was never groomed and it was a uniform icy but sort of skiable surface. Talisman was a bit better. Not fun. Wizard was really the best run I found. Actually Showoff was OK and softened a bit but lapping Green had no appeal.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 2, 2021)

i just got a facebook flashback pop up on my phone. 

8 years ago today i left nyc at 4 AM, skied magic all day, then drove to woodstock to meet a friend at levon helm's barn to see marco benevento, joe russo, and gene ween perform their own set, and then all guest with larry campbell and the midnight ramble band. then i drove back to nyc. 

that was a great long day.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 2, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> 8 years ago today i left nyc at 4 AM, skied magic all day, then drove to woodstock.
> 
> that was a great long day.


You have some serious endurance, sounds like a great show though.


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## urungus (Mar 5, 2021)

Excerpt from yesterday’s Alpine Update:

The Quad Chair work continues. Currently, Pfister Mountain Services is in search of additional sheave assemblies/wheels to accommodate the newly revised engineering specifications for several towers. These are no longer manufactured by Poma so it is literally a hunt for parts. While frustrating for us to have to deal with these highly unusual last-minute engineering specs revisions, we are focused on the long-term benefits of a safe and reliable, high-capacity lift to the summit for Magic's sustainability. Pfister has committed to do all he can to complete this lift as soon as possible this spring.


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## urungus (Mar 5, 2021)

Confessions from the Red Chair ...


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 5, 2021)

that is hilarious!


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## ne_skier (Mar 5, 2021)

urungus said:


> The Quad Chair work continues. Currently, Pfister Mountain Services is in search of additional sheave assemblies/wheels to accommodate the newly revised engineering specifications for several towers. These are no longer manufactured by Poma so it is literally a hunt for parts.


The sheaves in question were manufactured between 1983 and 1987 if I recall correctly. Black Line is an '86. Although the terminal model, Alpha, is very common in the US (Stratton has 2, Bromley has 1, Okemo has 7, Killington has 3) I'm not sure how common these sheaves are, it really depends on the quantity and diameter. Then again, Pfister knows more than I do.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 5, 2021)

Cold one out there today.


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## Newpylong (Mar 5, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> The sheaves in question were manufactured between 1983 and 1987 if I recall correctly. Black Line is an '86. Although the terminal model, Alpha, is very common in the US (Stratton has 2, Bromley has 1, Okemo has 7, Killington has 3) I'm not sure how common these sheaves are, it really depends on the quantity and diameter. Then again, Pfister knows more than I do.


Yes he does, and he has a considerable boneyard as well. He bids on lift removals and keep what's salvageable. Skytrans also has one, even bigger. I would assume most sheave trains of this vintage are still in service (and ones on the ground are part of a lift with future intentions) so this is a tough find.


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## ne_skier (Mar 5, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Yes he does, and he has a considerable boneyard as well. He bids on lift removals and keep what's salvageable. Skytrans also has one, even bigger. I would assume most sheave trains of this vintage are still in service (and ones on the ground are part of a lift with future intentions) so this is a tough find.


Pretty rare to see an Alpha get removed for any reason other than capacity, and they are often resold if so. Those things are tanks


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## machski (Mar 6, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Pretty rare to see an Alpha get removed for any reason other than capacity, and they are often resold if so. Those things are tanks


Sunapee has the former Sunbowl Poma Alpha on the ground but just looked and appears to be a '98.  Plus, Vail owns it now so doubt they would share.  I know LiftBlog has it on the news roundup for this week, asking if any resorts can help out Magic.


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## NYDB (Mar 6, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Yes he does, and he has a considerable boneyard as well. He bids on lift removals and keep what's salvageable. Skytrans also has one, even bigger. I would assume most sheave trains of this vintage are still in service (and ones on the ground are part of a lift with future intentions) so this is a tough find.


Can they be custom fabricated?  Magic has plenty of time now at this point.


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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2021)

Wonder if West Mtn NY has any lying around. The old alpha that came out of the Hermitage prior to them installing their bubble 6 went to West and is now their (much shorter) Summit Triple. 

Originally the parts of the Alpha that didn't get used in West's Summit lift were going to be incorporated into the replacement of their Northwest Triple, which ended up being a completely new installation, not a hybrid type installation with some recycled pieces and some new pieces.

Guessing they're aware of, and looked into this option already


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## Newpylong (Mar 6, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Can they be custom fabricated?  Magic has plenty of time now at this point.


Not realistically, no. They'll find something, eventually.


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## ne_skier (Mar 6, 2021)

machski said:


> Sunapee has the former Sunbowl Poma Alpha on the ground but just looked and appears to be a '98.  Plus, Vail owns it now so doubt they would share.  I know LiftBlog has it on the news roundup for this week, asking if any resorts can help out Magic.





drjeff said:


> Wonder if West Mtn NY has any lying around. The old alpha that came out of the Hermitage prior to them installing their bubble 6 went to West and is now their (much shorter) Summit Triple.


Did some research on my go-to websites and here's what I found:
-Sunapee's former Sunbowl Quad was installed in that position in 1998, however, it was relocated from Okemo where it was likely installed as the Solitude Quad in 1987, replaced in 1994, relocated to be the South Face Quad, and replaced once more in 1997 and moved to Sunapee a year later. Being a 1987 install it does have the spoked sheaves, however according to multiple sources they are keeping the line gear, chairs, and terminals for a future North Peak replacement, so they might be unwilling to choke up parts.
-West Mountain did actually list the leftover parts from the old Barnstormer lift (1985 install, but it may have been sold to Catamount for their new Glade lift. I'm not sure however, and if I were Magic I'd definitely look into that, it could end up being their solution.


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## Keelhauled (Mar 6, 2021)

Based on the earlier update quoted upthread, it sounds like they have more significant problems than just individual sheaves.  They mentioned "changing out some sheave assembly wheel combinations at a few towers and a major overhaul of tower 13 cross arm and uphill sheave assembly."  If I read between the lines (and I could be way off base) it sounds like they might be searching for particular depression/combination assemblies.


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## Newpylong (Mar 6, 2021)

That's the way I read it too, possibly going to a compression assembly due to an engineering error in the profile. No small task, even if you found it.


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## machski (Mar 7, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Did some research on my go-to websites and here's what I found:
> -Sunapee's former Sunbowl Quad was installed in that position in 1998, however, it was relocated from Okemo where it was likely installed as the Solitude Quad in 1987, replaced in 1994, relocated to be the South Face Quad, and replaced once more in 1997 and moved to Sunapee a year later. Being a 1987 install it does have the spoked sheaves, however according to multiple sources they are keeping the line gear, chairs, and terminals for a future North Peak replacement, so they might be unwilling to choke up parts.
> -West Mountain did actually list the leftover parts from the old Barnstormer lift (1985 install, but it may have been sold to Catamount for their new Glade lift. I'm not sure however, and if I were Magic I'd definitely look into that, it could end up being their solution.


Wow, I knew the current Sunbowl Express was relocated from Okemo (the HSQ that Sunburst 6 replaced) but I didn't realize the FGQ was an Okemo relocation too.  Two lifts in that alignment relocated, crazy stuff.


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## ne_skier (Mar 8, 2021)

Snow report for Thursday looks pretty optimistic about a thaw this week, only trails predicted to be closed (And yes, this is obviously subject to change) are Upper Magician, Black Magic, Warlock and White Tiger. Hopefully the rain and subsequent freeze predicted for Friday doesn't turn out to be much and the spring conditions can carry into the weekend in some capacity


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## NYDB (Mar 9, 2021)

Yeah I don't know about soft this weekend.  It doesn't get warm enough really. Maybe sunny spots after lunch.   Bromley might be the place to be this weekend in so vt.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 9, 2021)

Thursday looks great for spring conditions.


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## slatham (Mar 10, 2021)

I think someone had asked about St Pat's day? From Alpine Update:

Get Your Irish Up!: We plan to have a special St Patrick's day opening for next Wednesday with $49 tickets for everybody! The T-BAR will be open, the deck grill going and some Irish Beef Stew and Guinness for lunch at the BLT. The cafeteria and take-out window will be closed, but it should be a fun day on the hill as we wear our green and enjoy a bonus March day of skiing and riding at Magic! (Red Lift only, though.)


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## PAabe (Mar 11, 2021)

slatham said:


> (Red Lift only, though.)


Green lift would be more festive,  to really go all in for the bit lol


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## ThatGuy (Mar 11, 2021)

Snow has softened up real nice.


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## NYDB (Mar 11, 2021)

^ it better have been soft today.  Wasn't it like 60 degrees?

I'm more worried about what's going to be left after today and tommorow, because it looks to get cold again with some potential snow chances next week


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## ne_skier (Mar 11, 2021)

Weather.com predicting a low of 19 Friday night. For next week, there's potential for Tuesday PM snow showers, wintery mix on Wednesday, and 1-3 inches on Friday


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## Smellytele (Mar 11, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Weather.com predicting a low of 19 Friday night. For next week, there's potential for Tuesday PM snow showers, wintery mix on Wednesday, and 1-3 inches on Friday


NOAA shows nothing for Magic


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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> NOAA shows nothing for Magic


Some of the local snowmobile clubs in SoVT, mind you who at times may even be more optimistic about future snowfall potential then some of us AZ'ers, I have seen suggest that 6-12" could fall next week over a series of a couple of storms...

Time will tell. Most seem to agree though that in about another 24hrs, the really warm air goes away for a while...


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 11, 2021)

single chair weather blog's thursday post was talking about potential big snow next weekend. the 12z gfs run had a beauty for next friday. the 18z has nothing in the same time frame. its 9 days out so no one really knows yet

the 12z run, for next friday morning:


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## Smellytele (Mar 11, 2021)

Noaa only goes out to Thursday.


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## reefer (Mar 12, 2021)

at magic. just softening up. adventure skiing on tali. base isn't going anywhere but things will likely be frozen. ugh.


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## slatham (Mar 12, 2021)

There is *potential* for next week but the models are having a tough time with both storms. The pic KTK put up is the second storm. You can't pay much attention to the 2nd storm when the models disagree on the first one (which would be around the 17th, if it holds together). The first storm is just coming together over the 4-corners and will blast Denver. The second is still out in the Pacific. Lots of time and lots of potential but too early to get excited....


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## ThatGuy (Mar 12, 2021)

Can feel the cold front coming in now. Hopefully that storm does deliver next week.


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## Newpylong (Mar 12, 2021)

In other Magic news, Pjister was spotted in the Okemo boneyard this week. The hunt for Black chair parts continues...


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## Slidebrook87 (Mar 12, 2021)

Why not use late 80s/90s style Poma sheaves? The ones used on Black currently are the older spoked style, but the newer ones are compatible and much more plentiful. The F-Triple at Hunter (same model as Black) has a mix of the old spoked style and the newer sheaves.


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## Newpylong (Mar 12, 2021)

Well first of all, Tim doesn't videotape and talk about lifts as a hobby, he does this for a living, and has been doing it for 20 years. So if it were that simple it wouldn't be a big to-do.


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## prsboogie (Mar 14, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Snow has softened up real nice.


I have to say 65 degrees with Magic's base was crazy fun on Thursday. I had my kids there for their first visit and they are converts. My wife even had fun on the blues. Totally worth the kids missing a day of pho-school!!


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## ne_skier (Mar 14, 2021)

Saturday was pretty much all groomers, only ungroomed open was Enchanted Forest and Pixie Dust, in other words not much at all. It isn't the freeze that's concerning to me, but rather the lack of snow. Apparently warm winds on Friday night took out a lot of their base on ungroomed terrain and you can see the bare spots on Black Line from Rt 11. Really hoping that this storm coming this week as well as anything that might pop up later in the month can open up at least a few ungroomed runs. The day itself was absolutely beautiful however, and I couldn’t help but take some pics


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## ThatGuy (Mar 14, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> It isn't the freeze that's concerning to me, but rather the lack of snow.


Agreed, the snowpack took a huge hit. Red line was great on Thursday while Friday it was impossible to make down without rock skis. Still beautiful out and a day skiing is better than a day home.


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## Atomic (Mar 14, 2021)

Speaking of Thursday, literally one of the best days ever with ridiculously rippable corn. Everybody there, and there weren't that many, knew it was one to remember. Here's a pic from top of Heart of Magician looking back up at Magician on left and Broomstick on right. That shine ain't ice.


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## MG Skier (Mar 18, 2021)

Hello Magic friends, I read the ski report for today. 
Is everything that is not open done for the year unless we get a huge gift of snow? OR is it just a glacier?
I have been monitoring from afar and debating a trip out sooner as opposed to later.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 18, 2021)

More will probably open by Saturday when temps rise, but you should definitely go sooner rather than later. The warm up last week did a number on the base and it looks to be another warm week ahead of us.


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## ne_skier (Mar 18, 2021)

Is the Hallows open? I've heard conflicting reports, with the website having said yes last weekend but with signage saying Bailout was closed (Broomstick was roped off as well)


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 18, 2021)

Webcam not a pretty sight right now. Then it will freeze. I'm skiing tomorrow and the weekend anyway.


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## Smellytele (Mar 18, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Webcam not a pretty sight right now. Then it will freeze. I'm skiing tomorrow and the weekend anyway.


I’ll be there Sunday when it will be almost 50.


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## ne_skier (Mar 18, 2021)

Saturday's looking like a pretty icy start. Temps dipping down to about 20 degrees Friday night


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2021)

i'll be north this weekend but havent figured out yet where to ski. staying in rutland per usual. got a cannon res on Saturday. i'd like to ski magic sunday but i'm thinking it may be time to dip into my 3 days of killington that I've held for spring. normally id wait for April but fuck, its fading fast on us and the next two weeks don't look particularly cold or snowy


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## ss20 (Mar 18, 2021)

Low Magic elevation no bueno.  Stratton got snow up top all day on the webcam, same with Killington.  SB reporting 2" up top, someone on k-zone said 2-3" at the peak there.  I'm thinking I'll hit Stratton tomorrow and stick to the upper mountain.  Rock skis and trees I guess.  

At this point it looks like it'll be game over come Friday of next week with a super-soaker.  BUT...plenty of time to change and the pieces are there for it to be a monster snowstorm...just need some cold air to come in faster and the storm to shift towards the coast 100 miles.


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## slatham (Mar 18, 2021)

In SoVt snow levels remained high today. Not sure how high but certainly north of 2,500' - probably 3k+. Tons of (old) natural on ground at 2,300'. Given forecast I think Magic naturals are get 'em this weekend unless we get a late March snow. Snowmaking trails should hold at least until Spring Fling 3/27 if not first weekend of April. I plan to be at Magic on Saturday.


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## Smellytele (Mar 18, 2021)

Instagram was showing snow at magic late this afternoon


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## MG Skier (Mar 19, 2021)

I might have to make a significant effort to get out there on Sunday. Girlfriend is cool with it, now if my legs cooperate...!


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## skimagic (Mar 19, 2021)

There's a race on talisman on Sunday,  Does anyone know how many racers typically show up and  if the trail is closed the entire day?


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## slatham (Mar 19, 2021)

Typical race ends early afternoon. Not sure if this year they have full crowd of racers so maybe earlier.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 19, 2021)

Magic was surprising fun this afternoon. With the end so near blew off work. Talisman, Sorcerer and Wizard were all groomed. The warmup on Wizard revealed that was just great, totally lovely top to bottom considering the basically shit snow. Grooming artistry. Oddly Sorcerer was better than Talisman. Broomstick was open to Heart of Magician and Black Line. I wasn't going for that today. Should be great this weekend. Weather looks so warm next week .....


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## ThatGuy (Mar 20, 2021)

Still some icy spots in the shade but beautiful day out overall. Tomorrow looking to be the same. Base has held up well, hopefully the warm temps and rain coming this week leave some natural trails open.


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## MG Skier (Mar 20, 2021)

I am locked and loaded! I’ll be there for the day. Hope to catch up with some of you AZ-ers at Sunshine, the slopes or wherever!!


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## slatham (Mar 21, 2021)

Yesterday was a great day at Magic. Slow to soften but did so in late am low (lapped Green a few times to take and advantage) and all sun exposed elevations into the afternoon. Ideal day to keep lifts going until 5 and the T-bar (its a bar, not a lift) until 6 or later. East side natural trails have good cover. Twilight has cover but never softened up - today's the day for that and Goniff. HOM and Black Line doable but have to navigate open ground, rocks, etc. Classic Magic. Get it while you can as this week does not look to be very friendly to snow cover. Snowmaking trails look strong but I am not sure any naturals will make it through the week. Hope I'm wrong. Forecast is for a late week rain storm which is good - forecasts of late have been so poor it's sure to either not happen or snow!


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## ne_skier (Mar 21, 2021)

Are they able to groom broomstick? In icy conditions it’s near impossible to control your speed


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## slatham (Mar 21, 2021)

They have groomed Bromstick but maybe not the last couple of days due to snow loss on HOM and Blackline. Yesterday it was obvious it has been groomed recently.


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## NYDB (Mar 21, 2021)

Broomstick was definitely groomed recently down to hom. 

Past there it was pure magic adventure riding.   

Sat was definitely slow to soften.  There was a cool wind blowing up high.  

But it all softened up nicely sun afternoon. 

Blackline laps were superb.


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## ne_skier (Mar 21, 2021)

Twilight and Hans were rough but fun nonetheless, lets hope the weather cooperates to hold on to what base we have left


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 21, 2021)

Grooming on Broomstick is of course, great. I am getting older and slower. I have to say I had a bit of a pucker factor with my tips over the left hand edge and looking down at the drop to the trees after a clumsy turn. While safety is always forefront at Magic these days, take warnings seriously,


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 21, 2021)

I hope there will be a way down next weekend. The weather looks scary.


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## Newpylong (Mar 22, 2021)

Not gonna pretty that's for sure.


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## slatham (Mar 22, 2021)

I find it likely they close all natural trails but snowmaking trails remain open for next weekend.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 22, 2021)

dont wanna jinx anything, but next sunday>monday...


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## NYDB (Mar 22, 2021)

Unless its another 2+ footer it isn't going to open much back up after this week.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 22, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Unless its another 2+ footer it isn't going to open much back up after this week.



places north have bigger totals projected at the moment...


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## slatham (Mar 22, 2021)

If I had a dollar for each time the models called for snow in 7+ days...

That said this one does seem better represented and consistent across models. But again, 7 days.....


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 24, 2021)

3/24 OPERATIONS UPDATE: These multiple 60 degree days are certainly taking a toll on snowpack, especially around the base area. While there is still snow on many of the all-natural trails and snowmaking trails, more and more patches are beginning to show. The forecast is for rain tonight, then close to 70 tomorrow followed by rain Thursday night into Friday with possible T-storms and temps again into upper 60s. In order to preserve snowpack for the weekend when temps are a bit cooler and we have our Spring Fling Saturday, we will not be open Thursday or Friday as it is best to keep folks and equipment off the slopes. We normally go to weekends-only this time of year so that’s what we will do. We will also be closing the terrain park for the season as some of that snow will be needed in the base area. The weather people seem to be telling us in no uncertain terms, with no snow yet in March, that the season is drawing to a close here, so this way we can still be open this weekend and next. See you Saturday!


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 24, 2021)

The ski areas are all making adjustments!  Larger ski areas will have trails that stay open longer but the trail counts are dropping fast!  Having been in Colorado where things are more consistent at higher elevation, I forgot how New England gets impacted by weather.


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## NYDB (Mar 24, 2021)

Yeah, A Basin has a slight base elevation advantage over Magic. 

Glad  I made it last weekend for a great couple days.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 24, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Yeah, A Basin has a slight base elevation advantage over Magic.
> 
> Glad on made it last weekend for a great couple days.



haha yup!  It is amazing how fast the base of the ski areas melt!


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## ne_skier (Mar 26, 2021)

Read the updated report, not looking great. At least Hans might still be open however. Anyone know anything about the race they’re talking about?


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## ThatGuy (Mar 26, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Read the updated report, not looking great. At least Hans might still be open however. Anyone know anything about the race they’re talking about?


From the wording it sounds like the race may not even be happening.


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## NYDB (Mar 27, 2021)

Snow report calling for last day today.  Bummer.  Terrible march.


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## ne_skier (Mar 27, 2021)

This season was a weird one, amazing from mid-Jan to late Feb but a delayed snowmaking season and a lack of a March snowstorm combined with a vicious thaw freeze cycle


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## slatham (Mar 27, 2021)

Except the past 2 weeks has just been thaw. Rain tomorrow. This is the end in SoVT.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 27, 2021)

my plan is to do cannon/maine next weekend, and then one final hurrah at killington/sugarbush in mid april. what a whimper of an end to the season


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## ThatGuy (Mar 27, 2021)

Red Line looking totally sendable lol.


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## slatham (Mar 27, 2021)

Well it might have been the last day but it was a great day. Snowmaking trails holding strong with a bare spot here and there and even all natural Up Your Sleeve skiing well. Sad it’s over and if March had been closer to normal it wouldn’t be. But it is the last weekend of March so not a disaster. Magic did a great job with COVID and the weather and I think has set themselves apart in a lot of ways. Can’t wait for next year.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 27, 2021)

Was a beautiful day, skied right to last chair.


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## keyser soze (Mar 28, 2021)

I was talking with someone who had a Magic pass this year, but did not use it because of COVID and was deferring it to next year.  He said they allowed him to ski one day recently without activating his pass.  That is excellent customer service and super cool.


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## Tonyr (Mar 28, 2021)

Skied Magic for the first time on the last day of the season yesterday. I can tell this place must be really fun fully opened. Reminded me of MRG in Southern VT can't wait to go back next year.


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## ne_skier (Mar 30, 2021)

Alpine update's projections for this coming construction year:
-Black Line Quad re-engineered and completed for 21-22 peak season
-Snowmaking pond enlarged, pipe repair on Black Line & Witch, snowmaking added to Little Dipper, maybe Rabbit Run
-Handle tow on the upper 2/3 of Little Dipper completed, restoring lift access to the full beginner complex for the first time since 1991
Can't wait to see this materialize


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## urungus (Mar 30, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> -Black Line Quad re-engineered and completed for 21-22 peak season



Fingers crossed, but it’s concerning that they’ve already slipped past the start of next season.


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## skithetrees (Mar 30, 2021)

urungus said:


> Fingers crossed, but it’s concerning that they’ve already slipped past the start of next season.


Greetings from Londonderry,

Another dose of rain Sunday and unless we get a snow storm of 8"+ (and we don't see one right now with how Wednesday is playing out), then last Saturday's Spring Fling was our final day. And a fun one it was with plenty of soft snow by the afternoon on both East & West Side snowmaking trails. Beautiful views from the Sunshine Corner bar and T-BAR added to the festive times as well as Flamingo Tosses from Red and live music at the BLT.

We are already planning for the 21/22 (non-pandemic) season which should be a blow out! We can finally finish the re-engineered Quad Lift this spring and enlarge the snowmaking pond this fall, with pipe repair on Black Line and Witch to add more snowmaking with our larger pond. Plus, more snowmaking in our expanded beginner area with the handle tow there ready-to-go. The work goes on to #makebettermagic.

Season Passes, with Early Bird spring pricing that saves up to $200/pass on regular rates and up to $100/pass on summer rates, go on sale by April 15th-June 15th. We continue to put the emphasis on our less crowded experience here in lift lines and on trails by limiting capacity here. We've done this for 5 straight seasons with a cap on day tickets. Now we are also doing it by adding a cap on Season Pass sales!

We've quadrupled our pass holders over the last 5 seasons, and we are comfortable with where we are, and want to keep unlimited daily access available for our Magic pass holders, while also keeping some capacity available for day ticket buyers and Indy pass holders who want to ski here (advanced online sales and reservations will continue to be needed to guarantee a spot with our capacity restrictions for day tickets/Indy passes). On peak Saturdays we will plan on maximum lift lines of 5-10 minutes with all lifts operating, including the new Quad.

< Skier experience is greater than sales volume >

Specifically, we will be limiting our usual high growth in season passes to just 5% over this last season.

It's definitely different here.

Thank you for making Magic happen.

- Geoff

—————/
the full update. Ne_skiers summary was helpful but the wording of the update is more optimistic. The season pass comment is surprising to me. They must have had a great season. I think the added crowds midweek (from my observation) probably helped as well. Good for the magic team.


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## ne_skier (Mar 30, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> Ne_skiers summary was helpful but the wording of the update is more optimistic


Was actually typing an update just as you posted that. I somewhat had a "do my eyes deceive me" moment reading that, but it's good news nonetheless
Another thing I was wondering about was the lift operation schedule. When the project was originally announced the plan was to have Red primary midweek and Black primary on the weekends with Red as a backup, but now it sounds more like the opposite is happening on the weekends. Wouldn't surprise me, as it can take some speed to get up to Black from the trails that spit out onto Lower Magic Carpet and dump you downhill of the T-Bar


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## kancamagus (Mar 31, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Wouldn't surprise me, as it can take some speed to get up to Black from the trails that spit out onto Lower Magic Carpet and dump you downhill of the T-Bar


It's be great if there was a rope tow from near the base of red up to black to help in this situation, like the short Lazy J rope tow at the summit of Arapahoe Basin that helps you get over to the back side Montezuma Bowl.


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## NYDB (Mar 31, 2021)

I can't see there being any lines at all if they run red and black at the same time.  They'll run out of parking before lift capacity.


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## skithetrees (Mar 31, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I can't see there being any lines at all if they run red and black at the same time.  They'll run out of parking before lift capacity.


They do have the lower lot, but not sure what shape that is in. Regardless, between the parking limitations and limits on sales, I can’t imagine too much of any lines once everything is running. I think in a lot of ways, Magic is becoming more unique and sought after every year, which is great to see. Sitting by the fire pit having a drink after a great day of skiing and having ski patrol, Geoff, and even total strangers saying hello and stopping to chat makes the place truly unique and great. How far the mountain has come is reflected in the real estate market with hardly anything for sale. No two bedrooms in Trailside and nothing in Mountainside that I have heard of. Last I checked, there wasn’t even anything on the circle.  Glad we got in when we did 30 years ago. All the drama along the way makes it that much sweeter now.


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## slatham (Mar 31, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Was actually typing an update just as you posted that. I somewhat had a "do my eyes deceive me" moment reading that, but it's good news nonetheless
> Another thing I was wondering about was the lift operation schedule. When the project was originally announced the plan was to have Red primary midweek and Black primary on the weekends with Red as a backup, but now it sounds more like the opposite is happening on the weekends. Wouldn't surprise me, as it can take some speed to get up to Black from the trails that spit out onto Lower Magic Carpet and dump you downhill of the T-Bar



Where did you see a change in planned operating schedule between Red&Black?

My guess is when everything settles out and conditions are good it'll be Red, Black, Red & Black, Black (Th-Su)

Lower parking lots very usable and fairly large (not to mentioned more car pooling next year I presume). Also they have the bus to transport people form lower lot.


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## ne_skier (Mar 31, 2021)

slatham said:


> Where did you see a change in planned operating schedule between Red&Black?


Here's a liftblog article written in 2018 when the project was announced, note the end bit talking about Black being the new primary lift: https://liftblog.com/2018/05/09/magic-mountain-to-build-two-new-lifts/
Meanwhile, here's a quotation from the recent alpine update:
"On peak Saturdays we will plan on maximum lift lines of 5-10 minutes with all lifts operating, including the new Quad."
Neither mentioned anything about weekdays, but I recall Magic saying a year or so ago that Red would remain primary on weekdays and non-peak weekends

Red and Black will have a combined capacity of 3000 PPH, compared to Red alone (1000 PPH) and Red and the old Black chair (1620 PPH). Those two lifts will have nearly the same out-of-base capacity as all of Magic's (excluding Timberside) lifts in the late 80s (Red, Black, Sun Corner, Green) so there will be a massive reduction in lift lines. Also of course keep in mind that unlike last year, lifts will be operating at full capacity (That is if covid is mostly gone).


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## slatham (Mar 31, 2021)

Ok I thought they had recently said how they will run. In my discussions its been very much "have to see" with it fairly likely that only Red will be needed on Thursday, while both Red & Black will run on Saturday. Friday/Sunday more a question. In any event, a good problem to have: "Which summit lift shall we run today?"


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## NYDB (Mar 31, 2021)

As the mountain gets more passholders, have there been any thoughts about adding an extra day to the operating schedule?   Monday or Wednesday would be awesome.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 31, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> As the mountain gets more passholders, have there been any thoughts about adding an extra day to the operating schedule?   Monday or Wednesday would be awesome.


On the Storm Skiing Podcast last year Geoff said it doesn’t make sense financially to be open midweek. Though I agree an extra day open would be nice. Maybe they’ve reevaluated the possibility since then.


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## ne_skier (Mar 31, 2021)

Has Magic always run Thurs-Sun or did that only turn up post-reopening?


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## ThatGuy (Mar 31, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Has Magic always run Thurs-Sun or did that only turn up post-reopening?


I believe it started out 7 day, then went to Mon-Fri and when Bromley owned it the current schedule was put in place. Im not 100% sure on that though.


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## ss20 (Mar 31, 2021)

If the Work From Home trend continues as pretty much everyone believes it will it would probably make sense to be open midweek.

Magic probably has some of the least overhead midweek out of any ski area in the region.  They do minimal grooming/snowmaking and run 3 lifts.  Your average "bump" is gonna spend more $$$ grooming, making snow, and spinning lifts on a random Tuesday mid-season than Magic.


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## slatham (Mar 31, 2021)

ss20 said:


> If the Work From Home trend continues as pretty much everyone believes it will it would probably make sense to be open midweek.
> 
> Magic probably has some of the least overhead midweek out of any ski area in the region.  They do minimal grooming/snowmaking and run 3 lifts.  Your average "bump" is gonna spend more $$$ grooming, making snow, and spinning lifts on a random Tuesday mid-season than Magic.


I agree with your first point.

Your second point of minimal snowmaking and grooming is an old view and no longer valid. Magic makes a lot of snow and grooms a lot of terrain and this will only increase as planned once Quad is running. Also note that two big and visible trails (Show Off and Hocus Pocus) were offline early and once online it was too late with too much natural snow to spend the money. Those trails only "missed" the last weekend as it turns out.

While not like the big guys, when you compare what they do to the number of skier visits it is a substantial ratio. 

On another question raised above, Magic did run Fri-Mon for several/many years at least during the Sullivan era, maybe before.


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## Pez (Apr 3, 2021)

to see the comeback of places like this and berkshire east is awesome.  anyone know if there are long term plans to re open the timber ridge side?


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## ThatGuy (Apr 3, 2021)

Pez said:


> to see the comeback of places like this and berkshire east is awesome.  anyone know if there are long term plans to re open the timber ridge side?


I believe its not a priority but a possibility. Its not owned by Magic anymore but theres still backcountry access. No chairlifts or anything over there anymore so it would be an expensive project.


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## ne_skier (Apr 3, 2021)

A return to Timberside is possible, but it's a long way out. Magic does not currently own the property, and there are no lifts remaining. The former double chair went to Smugglers and I'm not sure where the T-Bar went. They'd obviously have to purchase a chairlift at least 3700' in length, a used triple or quad would do. If they wanted to go overkill, they could also install a T-Bar on the former liftline, that being approx 1300' in length. One of the big issues that proved to be the downfall of Timberside back in the late 80s was the connector trails. For essentially two separate mountains to be marketed as one, you need to have a convenient and reliable connection between them. Unless Magic wanted to invest in a Slide Brook-type lift connecting the peaks, the connector trails are the way to go. Based solely on what I have seen on the Timberside to Magic connector's exit onto Up Your Sleeve, some re-grading and widening may be needed, as it would need to be skiable by those of all abilities. Also, it would likely be imperative to install snowmaking on these trails, as natural snow isn't reliable enough to keep the trails open, especially during bad winters. This exact problem is what was happening with the connector trails before the bankruptcy, with bad snowfalls leading to the connector trails often being bare.
If that was too long and annoying to read, basically they'd have to purchase the land, purchase a lift, do significant trail work, and install a ton of snowmaking to make it work. Certainly doable over a good stretch of time, it really depends on whether or not it's in Magic's best interest. No clue what the terrain is like over there.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 3, 2021)

it also faces south right? a ton of snowmaking to make that side viable. as far as i know, some hippie owns it, has the occasional concert or rainbow gathering type shindig. also does a bit of snowmobile/cat powered private skiing, and has hosted a banked slalom snowboard event a few times.


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## NYDB (Apr 3, 2021)

Terrain over there is mostly flat but interesting.  I like it as is.  Whoever owns it allows access and keeps the ski trails trimmed but keeps the snowmobiles off of the ski trails. Did a few lift assisted ‘tours’ over there this winter with my 12 year old.  He really enjoyed it.  

I know there are some tree runs that go more south - north which is a better pitch, but the main mountain is blue-green in pitch.  Still a nice change of pace and unique in so vt.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 3, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> it also faces south right? a ton of snowmaking to make that side viable.


Yes don’t think its full on south more south-east but still not optimal, especially in SoVT.


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## ne_skier (Apr 3, 2021)

Timberside faces dead east based on what I saw on google maps (satellite). Openskimap also says the terrain over there is much more mellow than Magic


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## Newpylong (Apr 4, 2021)

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth...


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## Pez (Apr 4, 2021)

Thanks for the info.  ya, probably never happen.  I skied that side once in like 88 or so.  fun over there, but yes more mellow than the magic side.


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## ne_skier (Apr 4, 2021)

Especially with the terrain offered over there not being more challenging than what Magic already has and the costs involved, I don't see it being in their best interest in decades. I'd expect to see a chairlift in the beginner area or a more sophisticated terrain park lift before that's even considered.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 4, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Especially with the terrain offered over there not being more challenging than what Magic already has and the costs involved, I don't see it being in their best interest in decades. I'd expect to see a chairlift in the beginner area or a more sophisticated terrain park lift before that's even considered.


There’s definitely some things that can be improved first. It would be nice if Magic eventually offered a van/bus ride back fron Timberside if you went back there though.


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## ne_skier (Apr 5, 2021)

Perhaps it can be something you can schedule on their website and maybe pay a small fee for. It all depends on whether or not the property owner cares about Magic essentially using their property to make money. If the owner doesn't care, I think such could actually be fairly popular, among skilled skiers of course, not to mention another way for Magic to put themselves out there among expert skiers


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## ss20 (Apr 5, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Meanwhile, back on planet Earth...



Red has a better chance of being a bubble HSQ than Timberside re-opening!


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## ne_skier (Apr 5, 2021)

Red Chair Ramcharger Edition, anyone?


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## ne_skier (Apr 9, 2021)

A brutal year for Vermont’s ski industry: Losses estimated at $100 million
					

The pandemic caused a massive decrease in day visits, especially from out-of-state skiers, dealing a huge blow to resorts and lodging services.



					vtdigger.org


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 13, 2021)

Passes available 4/15. Note there will be a pass limit this year. Also it would be tempting to raise the price as the limit approaches. Not to say that will happen.

"While pass holders will not have to make a reservation here, we are for the first time ever, also setting limits on the number of season passes we sell as this also effects crowd-size at our ski area. We have seen tremendous growth in season pass holders here since SKI MAGIC LLC purchased and made investments into the mountain (quadrupled the number of pass holders)."


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## slatham (Apr 13, 2021)

I wish they would post the pricing.


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## NYDB (Apr 15, 2021)

Looks like the same pricing as the 19-20 passes


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2021)

I'm done. Hope it snows - during the season! Mid April doesn't help......


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## ne_skier (Apr 15, 2021)

This would've been a nice storm to have like 3 weeks earlier. The mountain had already been cleared and swept and I doubt they're going to want to put all the stuff that they spent all of the last day taking down right back up again. Completely regardless of the snowfall, someone made a good point on the Sugarbush Thread yesterday about this, in that especially with most mountains in New England being closed there's little demand for skiing. Most people have moved on to spring activities, whether that be golf, youth sports, etc and most seasonal rentals have expired. Not enough turnout to justify it all.


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> This would've been a nice storm to have like 3 weeks earlier. The mountain had already been cleared and swept and I doubt they're going to want to put all the stuff that they spent all of the last day taking down right back up again. Completely regardless of the snowfall, someone made a good point on the Sugarbush Thread yesterday about this, in that especially with most mountains in New England being closed there's little demand for skiing. Most people have moved on to spring activities, whether that be golf, youth sports, etc and most seasonal rentals have expired. Not enough turnout to justify it all.


Also some summer projects have started that might eliminate possibility of running lifts etc.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 15, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> This would've been a nice storm to have like 3 weeks earlier. The mountain had already been cleared and swept and I doubt they're going to want to put all the stuff that they spent all of the last day taking down right back up again. Completely regardless of the snowfall, someone made a good point on the Sugarbush Thread yesterday about this, in that especially with most mountains in New England being closed there's little demand for skiing. Most people have moved on to spring activities, whether that be golf, youth sports, etc and most seasonal rentals have expired. Not enough turnout to justify it all.



That applies to areas that do have plenty of snow left.  In Colorado, many ski areas are closing not because of lack of snow, but because of the lack of interest because of the same points mentioned above.  There is enough interest to keep a few going, hence, Breck and A Basin remain open in May with a boatload of terrain left.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 15, 2021)

my understanding is that places out west tend to have their closings most dictated by us forest service rules and permits and such


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## raisingarizona (Apr 15, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> my understanding is that places out west tend to have their closings most dictated by us forest service rules and permits and such


A lot do for wildlife concerns etc. but there’s many that don’t have super strict agreements. Our hill generally stays open for as long as conditions are permitting. We are open Thursday thru Sunday’s for April and in big years we have weekends in May. And yup, I’m in Arizona!

screenshot of the AZ gondola from the webcam right now


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 15, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> my understanding is that places out west tend to have their closings most dictated by us forest service rules and permits and such



This is true and another factor is the departure of foreign workers that start to head back to the Southern Hemisphere or are prepping for summer positions.


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## tumbler (Apr 15, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> This is true and another factor is the departure of foreign workers that start to head back to the Southern Hemisphere or are prepping for summer positions.


Not this year...


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 15, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Not this year...



right?  hopefully the last one like it!


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 15, 2021)

Its very likely the Green lift will be open Saturday only if they get enough snow. Ski it as it lies, T-Bar for food and the bar will be open.


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Its very likely the Green lift will be open Saturday only if they get enough snow. Ski it as it lies, T-Bar for food and the bar will be open.



Yup, the Magic Weather team was brought back together for an encore yesterday. Key question/callenge/worry is accumulation in base area. Very elevation dependent.   Warm bare ground. That said whatever falls with be thick cement so resilient. I do not know what amount they need to green-light green, but at least 6". My comment yesterday was 3" at base, 12" at summit, while high summits could approach 18". Storm has shifted slightly east so maybe a tad colder so 6" maybe 8" at base is *possible*. But its gonna be close.....


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 15, 2021)

nice! hoping we get an overproducing storm and red spins sunday. saves me a drive in the wrong direction!


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> nice! hoping we get an overproducing storm and red spins sunday. saves me a drive in the wrong direction!



Red is in summer repair mode, it is not an option. I also believe that any "bonus" day on green will be Saturday only.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 15, 2021)

fair nuff


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 15, 2021)

i got my sunday pass this morning for next year. such a no brainer. easy access on the way home and get to put money directly in magic's pocket.


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## urungus (Apr 15, 2021)

Would be awesome if they could reopen for one last blast, even if it’s just the Green Chair.  Fingers crossed.


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## MG Skier (Apr 15, 2021)

That would be fun...


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## MG Skier (Apr 15, 2021)

MG Skier said:


> That would be fun...


Replying to myself......wish I had skins...anyone have wax for rock skis on sticky snow?


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## skimagic (Apr 15, 2021)

Snow Report Update 4/15: 

There is a major “winter” storm hitting Magic Thursday night through Friday. While Red Lift is already in off-season repair mode and can’t operate, if there is enough snow on lower mountain, we may open Green Chair to mid-mtn for Saturday April 17th, just for the heck of it. Since there is no base snow left, it would be all-natural, no grooming, whatever it is type stuff. There would be no lodge or take-out food or rentals etc. Just the T-BAR for refreshments, chili and dogs, and Tavern for a few bevies. Laid-back, take a few indie bonus runs. Tickets at the window would be $39 if it is a go. Won’t know that until late Friday as we see how much falls at base of Green Lift. Since we are closed for the 20/21 season, I guess this would be the unofficial earliest opening for the 21/22 season–IF it can happen. Stay tuned here.


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## ne_skier (Apr 16, 2021)

Snowstake at base reading about 3.5-4"


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## slatham (Apr 16, 2021)

Mt Snow summit, 10". As predicted, wide spread. Need it to stay accumulating snow at base today. Gonna be close for a bit this afternoon.


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## ss20 (Apr 16, 2021)

> Update 4/16 11am: The storm is not a blockbuster, but certainly a relatively big one for mid-April. *The base area has about 4″ of wet snow while further up the mtn it is estimated at 8-10″ and it’s still snowing. At this point it would be a no-go for operating the Green Lift for tomorrow.* But we will let it play out a little longer and make a final call between 4-5p.  If we did open back up, there would be no Red Lift as it is already in off-season repair mode and we would go off Green and “play it as it lays” with no grooming so advanced level, thin cover skiing/riding. There would be no lodge or take-out food or rentals etc. Just the T-BAR for refreshments, chili and dogs, and Tavern for a few bevies. Laid-back, take a few indie bonus runs. Tickets at the window would be $39 if it is a go. Stay tuned here.


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 16, 2021)

1PM 6" at the stake and about an inch an hour. Maybe.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 16, 2021)

Would be nice to get a couple runs in and a drink


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## MG Skier (Apr 16, 2021)

Looks like it is snowing a t a pretty good clip at 2:30 ish! Wind is howling just south of Boston all our snow is about gone.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 16, 2021)

Looks like a no go unfortunately.

4/16 Update 4:20pm: Snow is tapering off and while most of the mountain is good to go, the lower access to the Green Lift is just not passable due to lower amounts of snow, warm ground, two water bars heading down to the lift area that are not passable with constant running water, and a slush field that won’t last more than an hour at the base of Green. So close, but  unfortunately, no opening for Saturday. Appreciate every one who was thinking of being here with us.


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## hughconway (Apr 30, 2021)

Anyone care to speculate on the odds of Magic's quad being completed this summer?


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## ne_skier (Apr 30, 2021)

I'm putting the likeliness pretty high. And yes, I actually believe this, it isn't just some sort of tribalistic chest-beating on my part. There really isn't all that much left to do, with the "re-engineering" supposed to be completed over the spring. The main thing that needs to happen from the looks of things is swapping out two assemblies with combo assemblies. I'm no engineer myself, if you want more on my thinking, check out the comments section: https://liftblog.com/black-line-magic-mountain-vt/. Otherwise, there isn't all that much to do. 2020 seemed to be the most productive summer in terms of construction, and it looks like Magic is committed to getting it done this summer.


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## NYDB (May 1, 2021)

As long as its completed before xmas week next year, who really cares if its summer, fall,  or 12/23


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## Newpylong (May 2, 2021)

No question that it will be completed based on outstanding work.


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## slatham (May 3, 2021)

No double they get the re-engineering work done. But Devis advocate, if the re-engineering doesn't work then there is risk. I am confident that is why this work is scheduled for May. I hope the engineer nailed it this time and they're done.


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## Rob Forster (May 11, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Question on uphill routes - the current mandatory uphill route follows the timberridge return trail (a popular snowmobile route) for a bit before it turns back towards magic at the intersection.  Can get a bit too exciting getting buzzed by snowmobiles for a short bit because have bought awesome tracks for them here.
> 
> Are there any plans to create a route through the woods up there at some point that doesn't follow the old Timberridge return trail?


It would be great to have a couple runs there  dream to get there in the foreseeable future *fingers crossed*


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## ne_skier (Jun 27, 2021)

Weather forecast predicting thunderstorms on Friday when the fireworks/band etc is scheduled, has Magic said anything about what will happen if that's the case?


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## BabyGuinness (Jun 27, 2021)

We’ll probably talk about that tomorrow. More than likely we’ll have the band inside. As for the fireworks, I’m not sure if the town has a contingency plan. The company they use was fully booked for the 3rd & 4th. Which is why we host them on Friday 7/2.
Stay tuned…


ne_skier said:


> Weather forecast predicting thunderstorms on Friday when the fireworks/band etc is scheduled, has Magic said anything about what will happen if that's the ca


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## ne_skier (Jul 2, 2021)

Fireworks cancelled for tonight due to rain. Also to whoever it may concern, appears that the Chalet motel has been bought by some larger chain, the signs were swapped out for new ones advertising the parent company


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## urungus (Jul 15, 2021)

from today’s Alpine Update:

Lifts, lifts, lifts....As I mentioned in a recent update, we hired a new head of Lifts Operations, Dan Diaz who has experience both at Stratton and Bromley and lives right here in Londonderry. His first day was this week and Travis will be helping him transition this Friday. Boy, is there a lot to do.

Red Lift will be getting an expensive overhaul this summer and fall with a new drive, new haul rope and replacing top bullwheel bearings. The haul rope comes as a surprise as we thought it had a couple years left in it. But with a recent inspection, we believe it better to replace it now. So a new 2-mile long haul rope is now on order to be manufactured, with a delivery time in late October and then installation/splicing in mid-November prior to our mid-December opening. The Red Chair is 50-years old this winter, and so for its Golden Anniversary, what better present to give her than extending its life for another few decades of legendary service! (We may even sell cut off small sections of the original haul cable as mementos of the last 50 years of Red to help defray some of these upgrades.)

Green Lift is getting a haul rope splice next Wednesday which is typical after a couple of year of service as a new rope tends to stretch when newly installed as it was in 2018. Green will be ready for fall leaf rides to Sunshine Corner on Saturdays in late September and early October!

And, now the Black Quad. There's always something and we just keep plugging away for it to be ready this season. Some of the "pre-owned" Poma lift parts that Pfister Mountain Services had found to support the re-engineered sheave assembly design on a few towers are not to the exact specifications of the lift engineer for two of the lower mountain towers. So for those two towers, we will now have those assemblies custom-manufactured to spec. These are not "off-the-shelf" products and Poma no longer makes them, so those will take some weeks to create the engineering drawings, then manufacture, and finally install on the two towers by the fall. Work on Tower 13 to modify it per new engineering specifications will take place and be finished by the end of July. It's in a very difficult spot and a tracked crane will be used to do that work up high. We had meetings this week with both Pfister and the engineer and these are the last hurdles to overcome, other than me losing my hair, with everything else lined up for the Quad to begin operations this December. As always, we will keep you posted.

Finally, we are looking at new "soft start" modifications to the drives for the two handle tows (one in Terrain Park and the other in the newly expanded beginner area) for less jerky re-starts and easier customer rideability.

Lifts, lifts, lifts. Welcome Dan Diaz. At least next year should feel like a walk-in-the-park!


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## ne_skier (Jul 15, 2021)

Happy to see someone new in the Magic team!
Nice to hear that Red is getting some maintenance done, new haul rope, new bullwheel bearings, and a new drive (Electric command center, basically). Hopefully the quad is all ready to go for ski season, I can happily say I'm not losing hope _yet_


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## IceEidolon (Jul 17, 2021)

Man, it just keeps coming - needing a new haul rope isn't exactly welcome news - but that's a known quantity at least. Needing custom parts for Black isn't great either. Here's hoping those are the last of the complications.

Going back a few Updates, it's great to hear there'll be more snowmaking online this year, between the upper mountain work and the new pipe in the beginner areas!


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 17, 2021)

Seems like all normal preventative maintenance on Red. Do it now before it burns you.

The Magic crew definitely seem to have a handle on balancing maintenance and fixing all the old broken stuff from years gone by.


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## ne_skier (Jul 17, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Seems like all normal preventative maintenance on Red. Do it now before it burns you.


Definitely. They'd much rather put the money in now and keep Red running for another few decades than have to spend more money on non-preventative maintenance a few years later.


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## Newpylong (Jul 17, 2021)

Yes, the recommended replacement
period on bullwheel bearings is now 10,000 hours. If it starts knocking mid-season its all over. Hard to get a crane in to replace it especially if the shaft is shot from bearing failure and the replacement needs to be machined.

Rope must have failed NDT or shown excessive signs of fatigue.

The bearing is a big task but not overly expensive, the haul rope and motor on the other hand aren't cheap.

Magic is the ski area equivalent of Rocky. They have my utmost respect for doing the right thing and never quitting. It must be such a great can-do team to be part of.


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## machski (Jul 17, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Yes, the recommended replacement
> period on bullwheel bearings is now 10,000 hours. If it starts knocking mid-season its all over. Hard to get a crane in to replace it especially if the shaft is shot from bearing failure and the replacement needs to be machined.
> 
> Rope must have failed NDT or shown excessive signs of fatigue.
> ...


If the motor/haul rope were not completely shot, they may have tried to eke out another season, but not with all the engineering issues run into with an unfinished Black to date.  Tough to drop that coin but a wise move.  Hindsight is always 20/20, but I wonder if the final cost for Black would now be equal to buying a new, properly engineered lift for that line back then (and getting it in over a defined timeline).


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## mbedle (Jul 17, 2021)

machski said:


> If the motor/haul rope were not completely shot, they may have tried to eke out another season, but not with all the engineering issues run into with an unfinished Black to date.  Tough to drop that coin but a wise move.  Hindsight is always 20/20, but I wonder if the final cost for Black would now be equal to buying a new, properly engineered lift for that line back then (and getting it in over a defined timeline).


I find that hard to believe given the original stated cost for purchase and install was 1 million for the quad.


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## ne_skier (Jul 17, 2021)

machski said:


> I wonder if the final cost for Black would now be equal to buying a new, properly engineered lift for that line back then (and getting it in over a defined timeline).


Not sure how much Black cost Magic but still, a new lift would likely be much more. They likely paid nothing compared to a new lift, and I wouldn't be surprised if Stratton cut Magic a deal given their relationship and distance. It's important to remember that there isn't really anything "wrong" with the lift, it just needs to be upgraded due to the terrain it's on. Black Line is significantly steeper, rockier and has a different profile than where it was at Stratton (Or Flatton, given what I'm saying). If I had to guess, and for the record I have never worked in the industry, a brand new Leitner-Poma fixed-grip quad, over a mile long, would cost somewhere in the 2 million range, and as I'm typing this I have been informed by mbedle that the cost for the lift purchase & install was stated at $1M, a lot of shit would have to go wrong to meet the price of a new lift.


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## Newpylong (Jul 17, 2021)

Looking at comparables, Sugarbush paid Dopp $3M for the VH FGQ at under 4,000 feet (that one had a carpet) line length. Sunday River paid $2.1M for the Spruce Triple at 4,400 feet. I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility to be looking at $3M+ for a new Black Quad.


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## machski (Jul 18, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Looking at comparables, Sugarbush paid Dopp $3M for the VH FGQ at under 4,000 feet (that one had a carpet) line length. Sunday River paid $2.1M for the Spruce Triple at 4,400 feet. I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility to be looking at $3M+ for a new Black Quad.


I would agree on that price.  A lot of cash to pony upfront for.  That said, they are now into custom engineered and fabricated parts for two tower sheave sets.  That is no small $$ cost right there.  Add in all the other "small fixes" and a more than two year delayed install timeframe, I bet the costs are becoming more comparable than many here might believe.  But with the current install, a lot of the increased costs can be paid in smaller increments as they move forward and hit hurdles than that one large cookie a new on would have required.  Let's just hope once it is up and running, the drive, transmission, bulllwheel bearings, etc all have copious life left on them.


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## Keelhauled (Jul 18, 2021)

machski said:


> I would agree on that price.  A lot of cash to pony upfront for.  That said, they are now into custom engineered and fabricated parts for two tower sheave sets.  That is no small $$ cost right there.  Add in all the other "small fixes" and a more than two year delayed install timeframe, I bet the costs are becoming more comparable than many here might believe.  *But with the current install, a lot of the increased costs can be paid in smaller increments as they move forward and hit hurdles than that one large cookie a new on would have required*.  Let's just hope once it is up and running, the drive, transmission, bulllwheel bearings, etc all have copious life left on them.


Well that assumes that they paid in full from cash reserves, as opposed to a capital loan.  I don't know much of anything about ski resort business in particular, but in general I wouldn't count on that being true.  And it may well be at this point that a defined loan repayment schedule for the whole purchase and install would be preferable to paying these bills from the contractor from operating cash or a likely higher interest line of credit.  But I suppose it's a moot point by now.


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## ne_skier (Jul 18, 2021)

machski said:


> Let's just hope once it is up and running, the drive, transmission, bulllwheel bearings, etc all have copious life left on them.


Poma fixed-grip lifts from the 1980s and 90s are notoriously reliable and well built, hence why you see so many of them around. The drive model, Alpha, was such a home run that they're still making it today, 40 years later. They're also common, Stratton has two Alphas (S American and Solstice), Bromley has one (Blue Ribbon), Killington has 3 (North Ridge, South Ridge, Northbrook), Okemo has 7 (Black Ridge, Glades Peak, Sachem, both South Ridge quads, Sunshine, Morningstar), Sugarbush has 4 (Heaven's Gate, North Lynx, Summit, Inverness), you get the idea. I'm pretty sure a new drive was installed for the relocation to bring it up to code as well, meaning that if this is complete for the ski season we'll be going in with all lifts running on relatively new motors.


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## JoeB-Z (Jul 19, 2021)

Keelhauled said:


> Well that assumes that they paid in full from cash reserves, as opposed to a capital loan.  I don't know much of anything about ski resort business in particular, but in general I wouldn't count on that being true.  And it may well be at this point that a defined loan repayment schedule for the whole purchase and install would be preferable to paying these bills from the contractor from operating cash or a likely higher interest line of credit.  But I suppose it's a moot point by now.


I wouldn't worry about Magic's underlying finances. There is a large partnership who knew what they were getting into. The original cost was like salvage value with a $5M capital plan. That did not include the quad. When they are done, they will have a premier unique resort whose terrain stands alone in S. Vermont. It is already justifying what has become a premium season pass price with record sales.


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## ne_skier (Aug 28, 2021)

Looks like the new sheaves are going in after Labor Day, hopefully this is a good sign we’ll have the quad running for this season.


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## hughconway (Sep 1, 2021)

I'll give it until 11/1 to make the call (again) this year, but I suspect that new Polaris Ranger on their facebook page will be the only quad going to the summit of Magic this season.  I'm also extremely concerned that there will be delays on the red double chair as well given COVID supply chain issues and Magic's ability to stretch the timeline of nearly any project to infinity.  It's also interesting that management claimed they were surprised that the double chair rope failed - just about everyone in the lift geek community has known that rope was shot for a few years now - I even mentioned it in one of my posts in this thread a year or two ago.  Another tidbit of rope information that I haven't seen Magic share publicly is that the frankenrope that they spliced together for the new quad is only conditionally approved for passenger use to give Magic a fighting chance to complete that lift however it will need to be replaced with a new rope after it's first season of operation.

It was nice to see they are working on the snowmaking pond pump, but the background of the picture leads me to believe that the pond expansion project was silently abandoned again this year?  Scrolling back thru the pictures of the new/repaired/replaced snowmaking pipe in their beginner area it would also appear that the surface tow relocation has also stalled?

I really want to see this place survive - and possibly even thrive.  The management seems to have a solid plan to build the business and improve the infrastucture, but they keep falling flat on their face when it comes to timely execution of those plans.  I wish them the very best of luck in this uphill battle / slow-motion train wreck,


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## skiur (Sep 1, 2021)

Man, every post you have ever made on this site has been in this thread bashing magic.


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## ThatGuy (Sep 1, 2021)

hughconway said:


> I'll give it until 11/1 to make the call (again) this year, but I suspect that new Polaris Ranger on their facebook page will be the only quad going to the summit of Magic this season.


Thanks for the unneeded prognosis. You can grab an epic pass before Labor day for a nice discount, no one says you have to ski here.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 1, 2021)

lolz


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## ss20 (Sep 1, 2021)

I will say the instillation of Black has been totally botched...and whether that has to do with engineering firms or contractors or parts shortages or whatever... We're still waiting on a lift that was to be installed years ago.  I just never liked the mentality of "well it's Magic so they get a free pass".  They still told customers there's be a reliable second option to the summit and that still hasn't happened yet... despite many passed deadlines. If it was a corporate resort management would be burned at the stake.  

I would have preferred they'd of taken the approach they did with Green and worked on it slowly but finally got it open when it was ready without posting promises to customers about expected completion dates.

Other than that I've got no qualms with Magic and what the new owners have accomplished.  They've gotten a lot of my $$$ over the years and I'm sad I won't be able to ski there anymore now that I'm moving West.  Tons of great memories there.


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## Newpylong (Sep 1, 2021)

But they aren't a corporate resort, so they haven't been burned at the stake, nor will they be. If they are limiting pass sales, my guess is while the concerns with Black are valid, they are not as important with their ACTUAL customers as they are with armchair GMs.

As for this quote, "I wish them the very best of luck in this uphill battle / slow-motion train wreck." Wishing someone luck in the same sentence as calling their overall business venture a train wreck stinks to be blunt.


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 1, 2021)

Why does hughconway exclusively post the sniping on this thread? If he is in the industry, it is very unseemly. Anyway, pass buyers speak with their money. Magic will grind through the issues.


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## Smellytele (Sep 1, 2021)

hughconway said:


> I'll give it until 11/1 to make the call (again) this year, but I suspect that new Polaris Ranger on their facebook page will be the only quad going to the summit of Magic this season.  I'm also extremely concerned that there will be delays on the red double chair as well given COVID supply chain issues and Magic's ability to stretch the timeline of nearly any project to infinity.  It's also interesting that management claimed they were surprised that the double chair rope failed - just about everyone in the lift geek community has known that rope was shot for a few years now - I even mentioned it in one of my posts in this thread a year or two ago.  Another tidbit of rope information that I haven't seen Magic share publicly is that the frankenrope that they spliced together for the new quad is only conditionally approved for passenger use to give Magic a fighting chance to complete that lift however it will need to be replaced with a new rope after it's first season of operation.
> 
> It was nice to see they are working on the snowmaking pond pump, but the background of the picture leads me to believe that the pond expansion project was silently abandoned again this year?  Scrolling back thru the pictures of the new/repaired/replaced snowmaking pipe in their beginner area it would also appear that the surface tow relocation has also stalled?
> 
> I really want to see this place survive - and possibly even thrive.  The management seems to have a solid plan to build the business and improve the infrastucture, but they keep falling flat on their face when it comes to timely execution of those plans.  I wish them the very best of luck in this uphill battle / slow-motion train wreck,


On this doll show me where they touched you…


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## Bosco DaSkia (Sep 1, 2021)

Hugh Conway can not be defeated…..


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 1, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Why does hughconway exclusively post the sniping on this thread? If he is in the industry, it is very unseemly.



My guess is he's either a former employee or got passed on a gig.  That said, he does make some accurate points, even if it's done somewhat passive-aggressive & douche'ily.


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## ne_skier (Sep 2, 2021)

By far the worst thing Magic did with this installation was the nonstop promises that could never be met. I’ve said multiple times on this forum that I support Magic and that they will always be one of my favorite mountains, but that they should not be giving out dates until they get the lift completed and inspected. The MLK weekend deadline was a total disaster and it appears that they gave up on deadlines until they said multiple times this year that they’d be having the lift completed for this season. Either they’re convinced that this lift will defy all of the odds and run this season or it’s unwarranted confidence. From the looks of it there is a possibility this could get done. The mountain is set to receive the machinery needed to install the sheaves some time after Labor Day and there’s no way they’ll let Pfister make them push the rental back. After that it’s putting safety bars on chairs, loading/unloading ramps, electronics and signage, not to mention the certification. 99% of the problem with this installation lies in the ambition of the management team which don’t get me wrong is great when you are 100% sure you’re going to get the lift done, but can come back to hit you in the face hard when you can’t make the deadline.


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## ne_skier (Sep 2, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> My guess is he's either a former employee or got passed on a gig.  That said, he does make some accurate points, even if it's done somewhat passive-aggressive & douche'ily.


He makes some good points that I’ll take into consideration, but it seems that there is an agenda at play when every single post he has made on this forum has been trashing on Magic. I mean shit, I’ve said that what they’re doing with the nonstop promises is just short term ambition in exchange for long term failure (read my rant above), but I haven’t made every single post on this forum about some tired rhetoric that while true, everyone has heard before.


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## tumbler (Sep 2, 2021)

I think that Magic's overpromising and underdelivering was from their lack of experience in the industry and their optimism about turning the place around.  They have certainly turned the place around and made it better and have learned a lot the hard way- that's experience.  Their more recent updates have been more tempered and realistic.
As for Hugh it is an odd take to be trashing a small mountain repeatedly.  They are installing a ski lift not making a vaccine.  Lighten up Francis.  Instead of bitching, why don't you offer to invest and help?  I'm sure they would love to decline your investment.


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## cdskier (Sep 2, 2021)

Overpromising and underdelivering certainly was an issue in this case, but I also don't think there's many people out there that would have (or could have) ever anticipated all the issues they ran into. Compound the engineering issues with a global pandemic (which caused numerous lift installation postponements from major ski resorts with deep pockets) and I really just continue to find it hard to criticize Magic too much. Some people also forget that this lift sort of just fell into their lap so they decided to jump on the opportunity when it wasn't something they had really planned to do so soon. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I really question whether other people/mountains/etc could have done a better job if they had the exact same set of circumstances.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 2, 2021)

I guess the one thing I'd question is the availability of funding to complete the project in a timely fashion.  From the outside looking in it would appear they are doing the work as operational profits allow for the investment.  Not uncommon with small independent businesses that have a small appetite for debt


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## NYDB (Sep 2, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I guess the one thing I'd question is the availability of funding to complete the project in a timely fashion.  From the outside looking in it would appear they are doing the work as operational profits allow for the investment.  Not uncommon with small independent businesses that have a small appetite for debt


 I have read in a couple of articles and I believe previously on this thread ( don't have time to search sorry) representations that the ownership group is 'well capitalized'.    I hope that's not a lie.  

If its not they should be capable of easily throwing in the additional funds to complete this lift asap.    I hope that is what is happening.


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## Dickc (Sep 2, 2021)

All need to keep in mind that COVID caused major problems with this install.  Yes, they have been over optimistic on the install, but some of that came from a promise by Pfister that ended up not working out Re: the major tower work needed.  Also, they have had significant problems getting any type of priority from Pfister.  I understand one PAYS for priority, and Magic is not in a position to pay for that, but.....  Give 'em a break.  It WILL get finished, inspected and passed.  It'll just take time.  Once done, I'm going to buy a weekday ticket and make the 2.75 hour each way day trip just to see how its all working.


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## slatham (Sep 2, 2021)

My 2cents. Funding is not the issue. Overpromising/underdelivering is easy to criticize with 20/20 hindsight. Not sure you can anticipate rock ledge issues, cement contractor not showing (ok, maybe you should have anticipated this one), and above all engineering error in the 21st century. I mean ski lifts have been going in for almost a century. Oh, and  Covid, with a complete shut down of work for a while and then ongoing delays.

Right now they need to be careful because they have to fabricate the pieces, which with supply and other covid delays is a wild card. Then install. Then finish. Test. etc. And meanwhile they are working on Green and Red. It'll be close. Fingers crossed for them.


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## slatham (Sep 6, 2021)

Finally got over to Magic for a hike today, beginners area, Wizard then down MC, Wand and Hocus Pocus. As I have not been there this summer some of this might be old news. Load test barrels are stacked at Quad base area. Beginner area pipe and hydrants done, skiers left side, on the right hand trail adjacent to tow. But they can be used to hit the trail to skiers left of the tree “Island”. Base and top tow  terminals in place if not finished, and no line yet. Tons of mountain is mowed - basically every non-steep/rocky pitch from what I saw. There’s what appears to be a new tower gun (it had HKD wraps on base and top nozzle) on the ground at top of Wizard Chute. That would be a good place for a tower, to be used frequently  IMHO. Pile of lumber in place for Quad offload ramp.  Looked like a new valve house on MC just uphill from Sunshine corner.  It looked like Green offload ramp being set up for fall rides, but otherwise hard to tell what was going on with the lifts.
A couple of pics. Top terminal of tow, new beginner area pipe tie in with Wizard, and my favorite view from Magician - always gets the adrenaline going no matter what the season.

Almost forgot- newly paved access road up to Magic, ending just after the entry to Lot A (probably Magic property line). Very nice. Lots of new roads in the area……


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## Newpylong (Sep 7, 2021)

Gate valves, barf. Those things are going to suck to throw in the winter especially with no heated valve box. Hopefully one and done!

Looks like they still gotta pour the upper form for the tow.

So much cool stuff going on there.


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## Do Work (Sep 14, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Gate valves, barf. Those things are going to suck to throw in the winter especially with no heated valve box. Hopefully one and done!
> 
> Looks like they still gotta pour the upper form for the tow.
> 
> So much cool stuff going on there.




Those valves are getting a heated & insulated valve house, it just hasn't been built yet.  I actually really like the heavy gate valves, they may be more work to actuate but they are super beefcake and never leak/have no ambiguity on closure.  As long as you can keep the ice out of them they're fantastic IMO.  Also way cheaper than butterflies which are way more prone to leaking and generally have light enough duty parts to worry me when being employed by snowmakers that tend to get creative with breaker bars etc.  Everything has safety drains and a big part of what we're doing in the summer is geared towards protecting key components through the cold season.


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## ne_skier (Sep 21, 2021)

Looks like work on Red has begun, anyone know the status of those sheave trains scheduled to go up last Saturday?


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## slatham (Sep 22, 2021)

Volunteer Day this Saturday. I am sure there will be updates provided on status of various projects. As of this moment I plan to be there.......


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## Do Work (Sep 28, 2021)

slatham said:


> Volunteer Day this Saturday. I am sure there will be updates provided on status of various projects. As of this moment I plan to be there.......



Nice to see you Steve!  It was great to get back in the swing of things with the Friends group, that always gets me so damn jazzed for the upcoming season.  We did some really great cleanups on some of my favorite intermediate glades and had a ton of families out stretching their legs and scoping out the best lines.  

Tons of work crews on the hill right now, with the Red chair de-tensioned and rigged for the top bullwheel to be removed, NDT'd and have the new bearing installed, also all the parts for the vertical drive shaft replacement are either here on in process so that's great too- everything is lining up as it should for the new rope to arrive in October.  

Green chair is wrapping up it's tension system refurbish, all the chairs have been relocated and slip tested and all we have left is line work for her to be 100% ready for foliage tours.      

As for Black Chair, the crew has all the necessary heavy equipment (finally!) on site and are ready to go on that as soon as a bad solenoid on the skidder boom gets swapped- which just goes to show, sometimes the thing stopping you is a tiny, stupid issue that has nothing to do with the overall crew readiness or willingness and that's just reality.  In any case, they are going to town on several jobs at once here and so far the work flow has stayed very productive and when one issue arises we simply jump on the next project while that issue gets straightened out.  

If anybody has specific questions I'm happy to try to answer them as best I can.  I knw there's an astronomical amount happening all at once and it can get confusing but we are doing our best, and we're here to try to keep you all as informed as we can.


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## Newpylong (Sep 28, 2021)

Have you gotten muddy on Witch yet welding those breaks? Haha just kidding!


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## Do Work (Sep 28, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Have you gotten muddy on Witch yet welding those breaks? Haha just kidding!



I am training a new welder, so I've been warming him up for that job lol- can't just throw him to the lions like that!  As soon as our new welding machine shows up that's our first job with it- likely next week.  Can't wait to try the new Fronius out, stoked to ski to a break and weld it without dragging out a whole huge work basket/ snowcat and a generator!


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## Newpylong (Sep 28, 2021)

Hopefully that just doesn't happen during the winter lol. Not fun at all.

Were you guys planning to fix Vertigo or was that another year? It all runs together trying to follow. Maybe Mystery was in the future?


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## Do Work (Sep 28, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Hopefully that just doesn't happen during the winter lol. Not fun at all.



It always does- which is why the new gear is squarely focused on fast response, minimizing our required gear packout and maximizing efficiency.  The new gear out now seriously feels like Star Trek meets James Bond, it's amazing!


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## Newpylong (Sep 28, 2021)

Can you carry it or tow on a patrol toboggan?


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## Do Work (Sep 28, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Can you carry it or tow on a patrol toboggan?



It all fits right into a backpack!  24lbs total.  Gives you power to run 18ish 3/32" 7018 rods between 30 minute charge cycles, so a single charge is more than enough for most hatch & patch repairs.  Bigger jobs only require 2kw gen, down from 9kw- Very cool and at that point even the generator could be carried.


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## ne_skier (Sep 28, 2021)

Sounds like Black is coming along nicely. Magic with no lines will be...well…magical


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 28, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Sounds like Black is coming along nicely. Magic with no lines will be...well…magical



seriously. if capacity and tickets are based on the carrying capacity of red last year during covid, then having black online in addition to the capacity regulation will make for a truly dreamy experience. my sunday magic pass is such a great part of my pass quiver. shortens my drive home every weekend and magic is the best.

friendly recommendation to the magic team - run at least one summit lift at 8 or 8:30 am on sat and sun. on sundays I'm trying to hit it early, ski hard til 1, and be home by 6. that extra 30-60 min in the morning would be tremendous.


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## NYDB (Sep 28, 2021)

I thought weekends and holidays lift spin at 8:30.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 28, 2021)

you may be right. i always want earlier tho. i am incapable of sleeping late. especially after skiing hard  > drinking/pot/food. i pass out at 9 PM and am fully rested and awake at 5. I should do more touring, I'm already used to the early ups.


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## slatham (Sep 28, 2021)

Do Work, thanks for all the updates (and hard work). Saturday volunteer day was a lot of fun with a great team on the hill. Nice spread too with donuts/coffee and then burgers/dogs/beers. Getting a ride in the new Magic "limo" was pretty sweet too!

The lines we cleared will be ultra sweet this winter. Great intermediate pitch with several sections to connect for close to TTB woods runs. Can't wait for the 9th - hope we follow through from our discussion and hit the West Side.

Best of luck with the lifts!


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## tumbler (Sep 28, 2021)

Was Hugh Conway there volunteering?


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## slatham (Sep 28, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Was Hugh Conway there volunteering?


Ha, no. He was aimlessly hiking around the Black Chair. I think he was looking for tower 13 but I'm not sure he can count that high (and they haven't numbered the towers yet LOL).......


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 28, 2021)

he's waiting for the Black Chair to be finished before volunteering.


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## Newpylong (Sep 28, 2021)

Guys, come on. He wishes them the best... but....


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## ne_skier (Sep 28, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I thought weekends and holidays lift spin at 8:30.


Last year it was 8:30 weekends and holidays, when hours changed due to daylight savings it was 9 AM to make up for the extra hour at the end of the day


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## ne_skier (Sep 28, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Was Hugh Conway there volunteering?


He contributed his well wishes and engineering advice


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## Do Work (Sep 29, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Guys, come on. He wishes them the best... but....



NOTHING but the best!  You can tell!


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## NYDB (Sep 29, 2021)

Do Work said:


> If anybody has specific questions I'm happy to try to answer them as best I can.  I knw there's an astronomical amount happening all at once and it can get confusing but we are doing our best, and we're here to try to keep you all as informed as we can.


Will black be spinning for 2021 xmas week?


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## Do Work (Sep 29, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Will black be spinning for 2021 xmas week?



We're doing everything we can to make that goal a reality and I don't see any reason why we wouldn't, but I'll be the last one to set hard delivery guarantees given the obviously fickle nature of the beast at hand.  I'm happy to keep everyone updated on progress as we make advancements, and I'll try to keep communicating as best I can.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 29, 2021)

thanks for being willing to communicate.  good luck with all of your projects.


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## Tin (Sep 30, 2021)

slatham said:


> The lines we cleared will be ultra sweet this winter. Great intermediate pitch with several sections to connect for close to TTB woods runs. Can't wait for the 9th - hope we follow through from our discussion and hit the West Side.



I swear the Hollows and Wardrobe need more annual cleaning than most of the unmarked stuff on the west side. Damn conifers.


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## skithetrees (Sep 30, 2021)

Do Work said:


> We're doing everything we can to make that goal a reality and I don't see any reason why we wouldn't, but I'll be the last one to set hard delivery guarantees given the obviously fickle nature of the beast at hand.  I'm happy to keep everyone updated on progress as we make advancements, and I'll try to keep communicating as best I can.


The amount of things that you guys have going on at one time right now boggles my mind. I can’t imagine tackling all of that and give you major credit for doing so. I am hoping for the best and also being realistic about the timeline here. Either way, extremely excited about the upcoming season.


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## Do Work (Sep 30, 2021)

Tin said:


> I swear the Hollows and Wardrobe need more annual cleaning than most of the unmarked stuff on the west side. Damn conifers.



It's true!  They're HUGE areas and with how bushy those conifers get, it takes a lot to keep up with them.  We are planning to hit the west side for the last FoM work day FYI, and I'm hoping to get more days of prep cutting done leading into it.  Looking like a two-pronged attack plan so I hope we get a good turnout!  

Next year we are planning to make SERIOUS increases in allocations to tree skiing maintenance though, and I'm really excited to spend some real time out in the woods again.  This place has so much skiable terrain, we're really barely scratching the surface of what's possible.


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## Do Work (Sep 30, 2021)

skithetrees said:


> The amount of things that you guys have going on at one time right now boggles my mind. I can’t imagine tackling all of that and give you major credit for doing so. I am hoping for the best and also being realistic about the timeline here. Either way, extremely excited about the upcoming season.



It's an exciting time right now, it's so relieving and rewarding to see these big list items all getting crossed off the list like dominoes now.  Keeping all the crews moving can be a real challenge but it certainly makes the days fly by when you're simultaneously calling around for equipment, directing work crews, aligning parts/crews timelines, checking status of ordered parts, confirming with surveyors and inspectors, interfacing with the other departments, sometimes driving to go get critical pieces, dealing with broken equipment, lining up staff for events, building new policy and compliance programs...  All at the same time, and every day several things pop up that require a complete reshuffling of the deck.  It is definitely a lot- and I have a 2.5yo and two teenagers at home also LOL so it's safe to say I'm usually asleep sitting in a chair by 10pm most nights.  That said, I absolutely love the challenge and Magic is the coolest freakin' place ever- and it gets more rad every day!


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## MG Skier (Sep 30, 2021)

Do Work:

I wish I could help on the FoM days. The fall is impossible for me, I don't free up on weekends until November due to work. If there are November opportunities let us know.


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## Do Work (Sep 30, 2021)

MG Skier said:


> Do Work:
> 
> I wish I could help on the FoM days. The fall is impossible for me, I don't free up on weekends until November due to work. If there are November opportunities let us know.



We did an extra unofficial day last year, and will likely do another one this year too given the volume of work we're trying to get done.  If you want to shoot me a PM I can let you know when we're planning for them.


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## slatham (Oct 1, 2021)

Tin said:


> I swear the Hollows and Wardrobe need more annual cleaning than most of the unmarked stuff on the west side. Damn conifers.



We did both last year, though I haven't walked them yet to see if summer downfall is bad. I do think skiers right of upper Wardrobe needs to be widened but given only 1 more VOM day and the latest plan I heard, not sure people will get in there. Maybe if a good turnout we can send 2 teams up?


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## slatham (Oct 2, 2021)

I am sure everyone knows but Green passed inspection and ran today. Top bull wheel on Red is back in place and that work wrapped up this afternoon. One goal is to get everything done on Red ASAP so when rope arrives that is all that is left to do. The big crane for Quad tower 13 is in lot B and that will be done “soon”. 

Decent number of people up to ride, hike and disc golf, especially considering the weather forecast (as of 5pm no rain and the sun is peaking through). Stopped at Sunshine Corner on way down (which happened to be cold and cloudy) for a beer and a chat with with various people. 

Good progress, fingers crossed for Red and Black.......


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## NYDB (Oct 29, 2021)

Wow, sobering email update today regarding summit lifts.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 29, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Wow, sobering email update today regarding summit lifts.



Care to share the contents of the email?  I am not on that distribution list.


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 29, 2021)

yea its really comin down to the wire. best of luck


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 29, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Care to share the contents of the email?  I am not on that distribution list.



Greetings from Londonderry,

It's the end of October and this will be the final two days of the Black Line Tavern so we can prepare for the winter season with a re-opening as usual for the Tavern on 11/26 for lunch and dinner on Friday and Saturday of Thanksgiving. The Magic Merchants store will also be open then for holiday shopping!

Speaking of shopping, we will have a special Freedom 4-Pack sales event over the Thanksgiving holiday period as well on our online store. This will be the only time to purchase four (4) ticket vouchers at 25% off walk-up ticket window pricing. These vouchers will be good anytime this season except the Saturday/Sunday of MLK weekend and Presidents weekend, plus they are full transferable to your friends and guests. So stay tuned for this one-time Freedom 4-Pack ticket voucher Thanksgiving holiday online sales event to save even more on Magic's already affordable tickets. (Did you know that some other areas in the region now hiked ticket prices to over $170 a day??! So you can save a hundie here by just walking up to our ticket window during the season and then put the savings toward eating, drinking and being merry!)

This weekend, we go out with a bang with a big Halloween Costume Party with live band MV19. There is a $10 cover charge but our friends at Bud Light are picking up that charge for the first 150 through the door. A portion of proceeds from the cover charge benefit our local Londonderry Volunteer Rescue Squad, so thank you to Bud Light and all party-goers! There are also cash prizes of $100 each to the best male and female costumes.







 The band plays 8-11:30 with doors opening at 7pm (use main deck entrance on mountainside.) As always, if you feel any cold symptoms, please stay home, and if you are unvaccinated, please wear a surgical mask inside to protect yourself and others. We will have our HEPA air filtrations system on in the Tavern. Lunch will not be served on Saturday as we prepare for the Halloween Party, but the Tavern opens at 4p with dinner served until 8pm.
_________

Our operations crew made good progress on the hill with snowmaking pipe repairs on Black Line and hydrants added on Vertigo to expand snowmaking this year to these trails. Our fully refurbished pond pump house motor is back in so we will be ready to blow when we get enough longer snowmaking windows following all these big rain events. It's been fun watching Killington starting to get after it up there at the higher elevations, so we know winter is not too far off.








_Gabe welding pipe on Black Line                               Crane installing Pond Pump Motor_


Alpen Woodworks put the final touches on the Quad summit deck and exit ramp this week. Fabrication of key components for the re-engineered sheave assemblies on the Black Line Quad towers 6, 7, 13 are nearly complete with Pfister Mountain Services ready to deploy shortly to work on both the Quad and Red Lifts. The Red Lift haul rope is currently scheduled for delivery by mid-November (two weeks late) and its new drive is on-site. There's a lot to do on both lifts and of course weather is unpredictable. Our planned opening date for summit access with at least one of these summit lifts is December 18th. Green Lift is designed to go earlier if conditions allow for mid-mountain skiing.








_Deck and off load ramp are completed for the Quad!_
________

Magic passes, pre-season discounted lift tickets and Indy reservations can now be purchased/made through our daily lift tickets page. Plan ahead to both save and secure your spot at Magic, especially for weekends and holidays, given our industry-leading ticket sales limits to keep the ski experience as uncrowded as possible.

Get Passes/Discounted Tickets/Indy Reservations here


Teton Gravity Research just released its new short-film "In Pursuit of Soul". Check out Magic and other Indy resorts as the movie currently airs exclusively on TGRtv.. Here's an excerpt from TGR's time at Magic and what they say about our ski area, with our own little video snippet.
_________

Our independent ski area is doing every thing we can to create a different experience here than anywhere else, and to keep this sport as accessible and welcoming to all types of skiers and riders from all walks of life. The operations crew has some new young faces mixed in with the wily veterans and they are really working like a team. We still have a few job openings in ops for the winter and in our fun food & beverage area. So if you are interested in joining the team and "making Magic happen" here--a place where you truly can make a difference each and every day, and it is recognized and appreciated by our patrons--we'd love to hear from you. All our jobs are posted on the website here.

Thank you for all your support with pass sales--still up a bit over last year's record high jump! The continued increases in local Vermonter families calling Magic their home is heartening, especially with so many options close by. The understanding of what Magic is all about versus corporate skiing is really starting to take hold even beyond our little corner of Vermont. The growth of the Indy Pass is an example of that--as is the film TGR put together. Hopefully, we can all make a lasting difference together for the sport we are passionate about for years to come.

Stay well and see you soon.
- Geoff


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## ss20 (Oct 29, 2021)

Big yikes...

Hope they get it done on time but I've learned not to hold my breath.


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## IceEidolon (Oct 29, 2021)

Well, thank goodness for Green Lift!

The timing on Red's haul rope stinks, not that that's Magic's fault. It sounds like odds are decent both lifts are online for the Christmas holiday, and very good at least one is. Shouldn't be any trouble reroping Red, just time to pull the cable, splice, hang the chairs, and test. That takes time but it doesn't have the hidden surprises potential installing custom fabricated parts does. I guess worst case scenario it's a really good thing there are new hydrants on Vertigo?

I know about pipe on Black Line and Vertigo and the beginner area, and Slatham posted about a new HKD at the top of Wizard Chute - any word about other snowguns going up, or are the newly snowmaking-ed trails all going to be covered by portables? Is there fan power for some of the new beginner terrain?


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## NYDB (Oct 29, 2021)

I guess my biggest concern for them would be further delivery delays for the red haul hope. 

Shits fucked up out there.   "currently scheduled'' sounds a bit disconcerting.


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## IceEidolon (Oct 29, 2021)

Yep - though the closer to the delivery date it is, the better the forecast should be. Hopefully. Getting a splicer out on relatively short notice might be another concern.


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## Smellytele (Oct 29, 2021)

Mr Conway must be foaming at the mouth on this...


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## cdskier (Oct 29, 2021)

A lot of people truly have no idea how fucked up our global supply chain is right now. There are impacts and delays on so many things.


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## ThatGuy (Oct 29, 2021)

cdskier said:


> A lot of people truly have no idea how fucked up our global supply chain is right now. There are impacts and delays on so many things.


And its only going to compound and become worse if things don’t get under control.


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## Newpylong (Oct 29, 2021)

Magic's situation may be more "dire" than others, but they are by no means alone in such a predicament. The only reason people know is because they are open about it. For example, Saddleback's entire new pump skid was still in a container due "In November" sometime. Can't make snow without it. It's been on order since the spring.


----------



## machski (Oct 29, 2021)

cdskier said:


> A lot of people truly have no idea how fucked up our global supply chain is right now. There are impacts and delays on so many things.


The oceanic "parking lots" I have seen flying to all the coasts the last two weeks would blow people's minds.  Literally cities of cargo vessels anchored just offshore of ALL our major ports.  Very sad seeing it in person.  You may have heard about LA and Long beach, but Houston, Savannah and Norfolk are all the same.  NYC to a lessor extent too.


----------



## Dickc (Oct 29, 2021)




----------



## zoomzoom (Oct 29, 2021)

the camera angle showing the new unload deck makes it look a bit high.  do folks back east use about 18-20" from top of seat pad to snow?  i reckon it's nicely built for sure.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 30, 2021)

zoomzoom said:


> the camera angle showing the new unload deck makes it look a bit high.  do folks back east use about 18-20" from top of seat pad to snow?  i reckon it's nicely built for sure.


I am just hoping they clean off that birdshit off the back of the chair. At least it looks like birdshit


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Oct 30, 2021)

lol i think its duct tape


----------



## NYDB (Oct 30, 2021)

Yeah that’s just weathered and faded with a few rips and tears.   It’s the style these days


----------



## ne_skier (Oct 30, 2021)

zoomzoom said:


> the camera angle showing the new unload deck makes it look a bit high.  do folks back east use about 18-20" from top of seat pad to snow?  i reckon it's nicely built for sure.


Looks solid that's for sure. Hopefully it isn't as high up as Green's, one of the construction guys must've used their kid to measure the height on that one.


----------



## hughconway (Nov 1, 2021)

Odd.  It's almost like you guys had this information months ago but refused to accept it.

With some luck Magic gets the Red double put back together load tested and inspected between Xmas & NYE at best. The Black quad?  There's always next year.


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 1, 2021)

There’s some things in life you can always count on…the sun, the moon, and hughconway shitting on Magic.


----------



## ne_skier (Nov 1, 2021)

Oh god oh fuck


----------



## Do Work (Nov 3, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I guess my biggest concern for them would be further delivery delays for the red haul hope.
> 
> Shits fucked up out there.   "currently scheduled'' sounds a bit disconcerting.




We purposely selected a domestic wire rope manufacturer (and paid extra) to eliminate the potential for international shipping issues on the back end of this process.  We are in constant contact with them and they have been extremely forthcoming with updates and clarifications.  The two week delay was due to a shortage of core material, but it's just a matter of finishing the build itself now, as the stranding began last Thursday.  It takes a week to complete the 6 strands and they are still on schedule to be completed tomorrow.  Then it's on to "Closing" or combining the strands into a rope around the core material.  Their planetary closer runs at 30rpm and lay length is 10.25 inches so 30x10.25=307 inches per minute, 11,000 feet is 132,000 inches so that means it needs 430 minutes or 18 full hours to fully close, then package and ship..  Just to share with you the most to-the-minute details I currently have on that.    

All other components and rigging are already onsite.  Hope that helped, I've got to run back to my regularly scheduled muddy hole!  #cheers


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 3, 2021)

thanks dude, we know y'all will get it done, and everyone but one person here is rooting for ya


----------



## IceEidolon (Nov 3, 2021)

I think that's the most detailed lift status update I've ever seen. Kudos for transparency.


----------



## MG Skier (Nov 3, 2021)

Do Work:

Absolutely fascinating! Best wishes on your punch list!


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 3, 2021)

I know I would feel a tremendous sense of pride if I had restored the snowmaking of a ski area back to what is was at full build out save one trail. This is in addition to replacing 1 chair that was entirely removed, getting close to completing another, and essentially replacing a third with surface lifts.

Not many operators can say that they've done that while retaining the character of the place.


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 3, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I know I would feel a tremendous sense of pride if I had restored the snowmaking of a ski area back to what is was at full build out save one trail. This is in addition to replacing 1 chair that was entirely removed, getting close to completing another, and essentially replacing a third with surface lifts.
> 
> Not many operators can say that they've done that while retaining the character of the place.


It really is a testament to the dedication of the community and management that Magic hasn’t ended up on NELSAP yet. Can’t wait to be up there this season.


----------



## IceEidolon (Nov 3, 2021)

And on top of restoring the pipes, there are better snowguns than ever before available, in greater numbers, the pumps are overhauled with modern controls, the compressors are new and electric instead of diesel, pipes that were "good enough" are now done right - yeah, lots to be proud of.


----------



## slatham (Nov 6, 2021)

Successful test yesterday of the new snowmaking pipes in the beginner area, which was built out by the Magic ops team. It seems when the Magic team is in control they get it done. It’s when outside contractors are involved that the frustration level surges, as anyone trying to get work done on their house or business right now can attest. Hopefully the contractor delivers in the end......


----------



## IceEidolon (Nov 11, 2021)

__ https://www.facebook.com/29515067037/posts/10158087975077038
			




Per FB guns are out on Lower Magic Carpet. They're planning to open that plus the learning center first, leaving the summit work road and the Red and Black base terminals clear for equipment access. 

I wonder if we might see the new hydrants on Vertigo get some use if this coming window is as good as the optimists think - either that or stockpiled snow for the Summit trails where the work road isn't.


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 11, 2021)

The wet bulb does not look promising for Southern VT at lower elevation so it's doubtful but who knows. A couple short windows at night next week. Historically it's a little early for them to pull the trigger.


----------



## MG Skier (Nov 12, 2021)

SO much work has gone on up there this off season. Fingers crossed for summit A.S.A.P. I am sure no one is feeling that pressure more than ops right about now. Thank you Do Work and Crew!!!! Ski you soon!!!


----------



## slatham (Nov 12, 2021)

The traditional Wand to Showoff route is off limits right now due to summit access on work road for lift repair. Hopefully this work can be completed before we go too far into December. There is no East side snowmaking route down that doesn't include the upper part of the work road (though theoretically they could focus skiers right of UMC to avoid the road once work on Red is done).

The window next week is not great but good enough Monday and especially Tuesday night to build some piles as a "down payment". Official opening day isn't until 12/18 and any opening before then would have been off of Green Lift anyhow (unless of course the weather pulled a 2018 scenario). So they run 400 loop on LMC and 300 loop on terrain park and beginner area (and if capacity allows Showoff as eventually they will need snow there).

Meanwhile we pray the lift gods change their mood and things come together.


----------



## IceEidolon (Nov 12, 2021)

slatham said:


> The window next week is not great but good enough Monday and especially Tuesday night to build some piles as a "down payment". Official opening day isn't until 12/18 and any opening before then would have been off of Green Lift anyhow (unless of course the weather pulled a 2018 scenario). So they run 400 loop on LMC and 300 loop on terrain park and beginner area (and if capacity allows Showoff as eventually they will need snow there).
> 
> Meanwhile we pray the lift gods change their mood and things come together.


And squaring away LMC now means that air and that line's water will be more available to attack Upper Magic Carpet when it isn't needed for access.


----------



## urungus (Nov 18, 2021)

Today’s alpine update:

Here at the mountain, our crew is doing everything possible to get Magic ready for you on opening day December 18. As you've probably seen, there's not a whole lotta good snowmaking weather in southern Vermont yet. Today is in the 50's and temps at night are still very marginal. But cold temps will come and we are ready to get the guns fired up. Currently the snowmaking crew has patched a bunch of holes in pipes and is looking at Friday and/or Saturday night for a possible system start if we can get a decent 12-hour window.

Contractor work on both Red Lift and Black Lift have seen some delays--story of our life here it seems--but while frustrating, we keep focused on pushing to get this work done and our team will help as haul rope, fabricated sheave parts and contractors finally get here. The new 2 mile-long haul rope for Red Lift is being shipped by truck today and is set to arrive tomorrow (Friday) and we have a huge crane operator lined up to unload the 35,000 pound spool. Pfister is still waiting on a backing plate to install the drive which is also supposed to arrive Friday. Pfister Mountain Services has been clearing up work at other mountains so they can_ finally_ be here 100% through final installation of the Black Quad this ski season. The big skidder vehicle with boom they purchased to reach the tower arms will be undergoing repairs to the boom as Pfister picked up the part for that earlier this week. There is some final fabricating of parts needed to assemble the sheaves and then Pfister's crew can get them to Towers 13, 6, 7 for installation. The tower arm for 13 is also going to be modified in this process with a new plate. These are not projects that Magic can do "in-house" and we must rely on the qualified fabricators, lift contractors and engineers to do this work. Realistically, Red Lift work (new drive/haul rope/load-testing) will be completed first for opening day with the Quad to follow as soon as possible to help capacity on our big holiday and peak season weekends.

Today, our crew finished pouring the concrete for the counterweight footings at both bottom and top of the handle tow lift in the expanded  beginner area. With temps in the 50s, it was a good day to pour. With blankets covering them, the concrete will cure over the next week and then Dan and Russ will be able to string the surface lift's haul rope and have the electrician hook up power, so that lift addition will be ready for opening day with new snowmaking on the two beginner trails there.


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 18, 2021)

Awesome, glad to hear the haul rope is being delivered. Red Lift or not I’ll be there opening weekend.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Nov 18, 2021)

Paging Hughconway. Time to emerge from under the bridge again.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 18, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Paging Hughconway. Time to emerge from under the bridge again.


They’re doomed. They’re never going to make it.


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 18, 2021)

Green lift only all season for sure.


----------



## ne_skier (Nov 18, 2021)

You know, I totally support Magic, I think it's an awesome mountain and I totally hope they get these projects done, but these projects will never get done due to Magic being incapable of just deciding to install the lift faster. Again guys I really love Magic but until I see Geoff personally climb up towers 6, 7, and 13 and install the sheaves himself, I think that Magic will die because of its slowness and incompetence (But I still support them tho). Why are you guys saying I'm shitting on Magic? Clearly I said that I support them.


----------



## drjeff (Nov 18, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> Paging Hughconway. Time to emerge from under the bridge again.


Hughconway may be next to get his own "fan club" FB group like Skiology Matt has via the Northeast Clownology FB group!


----------



## ne_skier (Nov 18, 2021)

I need to find out what Hughconway's backstory is. What horrible event at Magic led this man to make an AlpineZone account and over the course of 2 years post 26 messages, each one about how Magic will fail to meet X deadline for X reason that they, according to him, could have easily controlled.


----------



## icecoast1 (Nov 19, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> You know, I totally support Magic, I think it's an awesome mountain and I totally hope they get these projects done, but these projects will never get done due to Magic being incapable of just deciding to install the lift faster. Again guys I really love Magic but until I see Geoff personally climb up towers 6, 7, and 13 and install the sheaves himself, I think that Magic will die because of its slowness and incompetence (But I still support them tho). Why are you guys saying I'm shitting on Magic? Clearly I said that I support them.


How do you "decide" to install a used lift faster?  Chairlifts aren't exactly something you want some random person, or ownership/upper management monkeying around with.   Kind of imperative to the overall safety of the lift that qualified persons do that kind of work


----------



## ne_skier (Nov 19, 2021)

icecoast1 said:


> How do you "decide" to install a used lift faster?  Chairlifts aren't exactly something you want some random person, or ownership/upper management monkeying around with.   Kind of imperative to the overall safety of the lift that qualified persons do that kind of work


Tell that to Hugh Conway


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 19, 2021)

Sarcasm doesn’t translate as well over the internet.


----------



## mtl1076 (Nov 19, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Hughconway may be next to get his own "fan club" FB group like Skiology Matt has via the Northeast Clownology FB group!



I'd just like to say thank you for calling attention to this Clownology group.  The world is a better place now that I know it exists and there are others who find him as ridiculous as I do.


----------



## cdskier (Nov 19, 2021)

mtl1076 said:


> I'd just like to say thank you for calling attention to this Clownology group.  The world is a better place now that I know it exists and there are others who find him as ridiculous as I do.



LOL. There are plenty of us that find him ridiculous. I find it refreshing to see someone from the industry that feels the same way. He often makes it sound like he has some inside info from numerous resorts and the managers/owners are all his buddies.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2021)

the hero worship of the guy is ridiculous, as is the handful of morons who have made themselves 'celebrities' on his page. most specifically 'girl who skins hunter 50 days a season and acts like she just discovered IPAs'. skinning hunter every day is some Sisyphus shit. its like 99% of members of that page have never seen a girl before.


----------



## mtl1076 (Nov 19, 2021)

cdskier said:


> LOL. There are plenty of us that find him ridiculous. I find it refreshing to see someone from the industry that feels the same way. He often makes it sound like he has some inside info from numerous resorts and the managers/owners are all his buddies.



I am not alone in the industry. Trust me.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2021)

may i ask what/where your job is? i love the insiders perspective you and the magic team and win and newpy etc share on here


----------



## mtl1076 (Nov 19, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> may i ask what/where your job is? i love the insiders perspective you and the magic team and win and newpy etc share on here


MRG, they tell me I'm in charge. I was once a Matt at Magic too.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 19, 2021)

nice. i'd love to relocate and somehow work in this industry one day.


----------



## jaytrem (Nov 19, 2021)

mtl1076 said:


> MRG, they tell me I'm in charge. I was once a Matt at Magic too.



I thought that guy moved to Alaska and was never heard from again.  ;-)


----------



## cdskier (Nov 19, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> may i ask what/where your job is? i love the insiders perspective you and the magic team and win and newpy etc share on here


I guess mtl's identity wasn't as common knowledge as I thought it was.


----------



## icecoast1 (Nov 19, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Sarcasm doesn’t translate as well over the internet.


especially when suffering from sleep deprivation.   I'll leave the comment there though, directed at HughConway.


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 19, 2021)

I find Skiology Matt provides good useful information for planning where and when to ski which is what I'm often looking for. Come here for that info too, but there is often more irrelevant stuff mixed in here than in his content. Of course some of that is fun too. Nice to have both sources


----------



## slatham (Nov 19, 2021)

Well not only did the new rope arrive today, they offloaded it and put into place under the Red Chair. Full complement of Pfister crew on hand so perhaps this gets banged out over next couple of weeks.


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2021)

slatham said:


> Well not only did the new rope arrive today, they offloaded it and put into place under the Red Chair. Full complement of Pfister crew on hand so perhaps this gets banged out over next couple of weeks.


Nice pics with you being credited for some on Magic's social media feeds today!


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## slatham (Nov 19, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Nice pics with you being credited for some on Magic's social media feeds today!


Thanks. It was really cool to see the process, and the size of the spool. So glad to see it arrive too - they’ve had a tough time with lift contractors, equipment, ledges, concrete, etc etc. Hopefully Pfister is camping out until both Red and Black are running!


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2021)

slatham said:


> Thanks. It was really cool to see the process, and the size of the spool. So glad to see it arrive too - they’ve had a tough time with lift contractors, equipment, ledges, concrete, etc etc. Hopefully Pfister is camping out until both Red and Black are running!


If Pfister finishes it up soon, and they're around at the BLT on a Saturday, I can guarantee that me and a bunch of my Mount Snow friends who have had(still have) kids that race at Magic in the SVC, will make the treck up to the BLT and cover their bar tab!


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## slatham (Nov 20, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Don't count on it, that guy gets pulled in a hundred directions. Not many left doing what he does. We were at the short end of that stick too multiple times.


Yeah hence the armed border guard on access road to keep the crew from leaving strategy.


----------



## machski (Nov 20, 2021)

icecoast1 said:


> How do you "decide" to install a used lift faster?  Chairlifts aren't exactly something you want some random person, or ownership/upper management monkeying around with.   Kind of imperative to the overall safety of the lift that qualified persons do that kind of work


The only way is based on who you hire to do the install/re-engineering for the new location.


----------



## urungus (Nov 26, 2021)

Latest Alpine Update:

After rainfall last weekend, we finally got the drop in temperature into the 20s and a decent size snowmaking window from Monday to Wednesday this week! Our snowmakers have been working on Lower Magic Carpet off the Green Lift as well as the Nelson Family Learning Area by the conveyor lift. While Thanksgiving was too warm for snowmaking, this weekend we will be back at it to hit the next section of Lower Magic Carpet.

_





Lower Magic Carpet looking white about half-way down to Vertigo_

The 2-miles of Red Lift haul rope arrived last Friday and it was quite the project getting it placed at the base of Red. Pfister's crew will be setting up rigging today so that the rope can get pulled around the towers next week for eventual splicing. New drive will then be installed and chairs put back, slip tested and then full-on load testing and state inspection so we can open to the summit as planned on 12/18. Work on Black Quad towers will happen in conjunction with Red at times and continue after Red is approved until it is also tested and ready-to-go during this season.





_18 tons of haul rope moved by crane_


----------



## NYDB (Nov 26, 2021)

Happy to see the progress.  Looking forward to a cold and snowy winter season.

” I wish them only the best “ - H.C.


----------



## slatham (Nov 26, 2021)

Fingers crossed this all goes to plan and Red is ready for 18th and Black sometime during season. In the meantime, hope they can get the weather to be able to open Green, Terrain Park and learning areas before the 18th.

It was interesting to see the unload and positioning of the new rope. This took most of a day. Lift off truck. Readjust crane. Move from left of crane to right of crane. Readjust crane. Repeat. And then once near Red, gingerly move with crane lines just outside Red haul rope, and then readjust where one line is inside the Red haul rope, the other outside, which is what the pic shows. And of course don't hit anything. Just shows how much time this stuff takes.

Would love to see them run the new line but not sure I'll be up there for it.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 2, 2021)

Per FB there was rigging done today to use the old haul rope to pull the new one around the lift. Sounds like progress to me.

Edit: looks like Friday, Saturday, and a couple nights next week have snowmaking temps, too - at this point I'm less worried if Green opens and more curious if they'll go to Vertigo or stockpile snow on Truck or Mystery clear of the work road.





__ https://www.facebook.com/29515067037/posts/10158122741677038


----------



## PAabe (Dec 3, 2021)

__





						Skilifts.org - Hours to Change a Haulrope
					

Skilifts.org is a website devoted to the skilift industry. Website includes images, discussions, information regarding tramways and skilifts, trouble shooting.



					www.skilifts.org
				






> Having done this at least 30 times here's my estimates on an average lift (3000', 20 towers, 120 chairs, crappy access, clean site when finished).
> *All major groups with total man hours:*
> 
> Unload rope from truck and transport to lift: 8 mhrs
> ...


A bit more time consuming than I would have maybe guessed


----------



## MG Skier (Dec 3, 2021)

PAabe said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that is a chuck of time. I wish I could pop out there, would love to watch a splice or better yet, lend a hand! Stay safe out there Ops Crew!


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 3, 2021)

Props for someone who has done it to explain the realities of the process. Nothing with a lift is as quick as clicking your heels.


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## slatham (Dec 3, 2021)

Yeah thats good info, thanks. Luckily a bunch of stuff is done already.


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## NYDB (Dec 3, 2021)

new issue on red. 

from magic alpine update;

"There has been a lot of progress on Red Chair but with a new issue discovered. Pfister's crew, with assists from Dan and Russ, has set up a receiving spool for the old haul rope and rigging lines for replacing the old with the new--which is an art form. They are also working on placing the new counterweight cable today. The old rope will serve as the "guide wire" for the new haul rope as they get spliced together and make the two mile trip up and around. This is scheduled for Saturday and, as such, the on-mountain property is closed all the way to summit, plus on Lower Magic Carpet where we will be making snow. Final rope splicing will take place next week-- so good progress there.

However, just to add to the degree of difficulty in terms of timing, a new issue was found this week with a severely worn shaft part into one of the lift's gearboxes--not the big shaft which we are already replacing, but a smaller one. So we quickly contracted with a manufacturer in California who specializes in these type of parts (and is an approved contractor with Dopplemayr) to fabricate a new one for us by shipping the old to them overnight. Of course this adds both time and expense--the critical one right now being time. Pfister and our lift team will do all they can to meet our original 12/18 date but there is a bit of uncertainty now. Either way on December 18th, we will be open for skiing and riding with Green Lift and beginner area, but we will keep you posted on progress with this new part which is critical to operating the Red lift so we can put all the chairs back on the new haul rope and do our slip testing and load-test with the new drive."

i appreciate the transparency.  i also really hope there is a summit lift ready for Xmas week.

good luck guys.


----------



## slatham (Dec 3, 2021)

Fingers, toes, skis crossed!


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## ThatGuy (Dec 3, 2021)

Be there either way but fingers crossed for Red!


----------



## drjeff (Dec 3, 2021)

Hugh Conway checking in soon....


----------



## x10003q (Dec 3, 2021)

Wow, the traditional Magic bad luck rears its ugly head again. What a bummer. Hopefully, the rest of this runs smoothly.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 3, 2021)

Can't catch a break...


----------



## camberstick (Dec 3, 2021)

The soul of this place is undeniable,  seems the  bad luck  is too some times. Hope  to introduce my family  to the beauty of red chair and the whole scene this year.keep up the good work magic!


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 4, 2021)

If the new management had not come in, Magic would be NELSAP. Red bigtime rebuild needed, no green, no black. Sullivan couldn't swipe enough and that other guy was shoestring level as the deal was delayed.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 4, 2021)

I shouldn't have said swipe. Read repurpose.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 4, 2021)

I think the best thing for Magic's future would be a co-op like MRG.  The place has enough of a following I think it could be successful.  

An influx of $$$ can't fix bad luck... but on the flipside $$$ can certainly prevent a lot of bad luck.


----------



## slatham (Dec 4, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I think the best thing for Magic's future would be a co-op like MRG.  The place has enough of a following I think it could be successful.
> 
> An influx of $$$ can't fix bad luck... but on the flipside $$$ can certainly prevent a lot of bad luck.


Funding is not the issue. Bad luck, contractor issues, old and poorly maintained infrastructure (by prior owners). Unless you want funding such that Dopp comes in and installs a brand new HSQ and then Magic isn’t Magic.......


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 4, 2021)

Not only that, the co-op or non-profit model is not always the solution. In fact, in my experience it rarely is. The biggest issue is any time a group of individuals or a board shares management responsibility nothing gets done because everyone has their own vision. 

Bad luck never ends but it will begin to diminish as the infrastructure improves.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 5, 2021)

Honestly with the current weather forecast and with snowmaking on LMC not Wand, missing the Red deadline by a week probably doesn't meaningfully change when the summit opens. I think it looks more and more likely the Vertigo rehab was very, very timely since that can get blown in much faster than Wand + Hocus Pocus or even just Upper Magic Carpet. All hail Green Lift, the early season champion!

I'm glad all these issues get caught in the preseason rather than being found on a Wednesday powder day opening.


----------



## slatham (Dec 6, 2021)

IceEidolon said:


> Honestly with the current weather forecast and with snowmaking on LMC not Wand, missing the Red deadline by a week probably doesn't meaningfully change when the summit opens. I think it looks more and more likely the Vertigo rehab was very, very timely since that can get blown in much faster than Wand + Hocus Pocus or even just Upper Magic Carpet. All hail Green Lift, the early season champion!
> 
> I'm glad all these issues get caught in the preseason rather than being found on a Wednesday powder day opening.



Yes with the current long range forecast - which at a macro level has strong agreement among models to be warmer than normal for the next 2 weeks - the reality would likely have been Green only. This is especially so with desire to have new beginner area and terrain park open too. And lets face it, LMC, Vertigo, Park, Beginner area would not be a bad mid-December opening.

HOPEFULLY Pfister can take advantage of low/no snowpack and get the difficult Black tower 13 work done. Getting the crane to tower 13 is a tough ask in the best of conditions........(side note, I have odds that if they do get it there, it stays for winter).


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 6, 2021)

Did Tim buy the crane or are they renting it?


----------



## tumbler (Dec 6, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Did Tim buy the crane or are they renting it?


yeah, that is an expensive rental


----------



## slatham (Dec 7, 2021)

Splice today. Significant progress on Red. Lets hope the gear manufacturer delivers on time and to spec.

I'd say crane not rented. Its been in Lot B since at least late August.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 7, 2021)

I only ask because, if it's rented, it's not staying there all winter. Likely something Tim felt he could use for other installations or sell after this.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 8, 2021)

Facebook/Instagram is showing off a maximum effort snowmaking push to run through the day and finish Lower Magic Carpet. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/29515067037/posts/10158132701602038


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## IceEidolon (Dec 9, 2021)

And snowmaking on Vertigo! I assume if that's running then the rest of Lower Magic Carpet must be in pretty good shape, and Vertigo is the only real option for any blue skiing without covering Wand also. Given the crap weather it looks like opening day should be pretty good.





__ https://www.facebook.com/29515067037/posts/10158134487322038


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## Newpylong (Dec 10, 2021)

That is awesome, way to go Magic, that trail is super fun. Don't see it ready for opening weekend though, this week coming up looks abysmal. Any snowmaking window is going to be Rat central and brief. LMC is going to take a hit too.


----------



## slatham (Dec 10, 2021)

Yes the forecast between now and opening does not show much if any snowmaking temps at Magic base elevation hence they were a bit more aggressive than usual this week to get some down (aka rats vs HKD). Looking at the long range, with normal caveats of lack of accuracy, there looks to be a pattern change around opening weekend so they might get a window that weekend to augment. Hell maybe it’ll even snow. Whenever that change occurs I hope it locks in for the holidays!


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 10, 2021)

One day of production won't open the trail, but something might last from those piles. And at least the guns and hoses are laid out and the pipe has been tested in real conditions.

In their shoes I'd plan to run Lower Magic Carpet anyway come next snowmaking window to shore up any weak spots grooming/opening weekend reveals after the melt. Pulling 6 guns onto Vertigo for 48/60 hours isn't nothing, but that can open way faster than Trick or Mystery. EDIT: Whoops, I meant Medium, not Mystery.


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## Newpylong (Dec 10, 2021)

I would too, especially that run out. Better to shore up what's open than to expand, given the ups and downs so far... Saturday looks bad and there is another 50+ day mid week though it's far out still.  So annoying.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 10, 2021)

Sat obviously looks horrific (58 degrees with 20+mph winds and an inch of rain) but yeah, rain and warmth again next week wed-thurs. 

Is there enough snow on LMC to weather that for the 18th opening with no additional snowmaking?  I have no idea how much they have laid down already.


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## slatham (Dec 10, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Sat obviously looks horrific (58 degrees with 20+mph winds and an inch of rain) but yeah, rain and warmth again next week wed-thurs.
> 
> Is there enough snow on LMC to weather that for the 18th opening with no additional snowmaking?  I have no idea how much they have laid down already.


That is the key question. My gut says yes or they wouldn’t have put guns on Vertigo.

Not sure where they will go next. Probably UMC into Medium. That has been the typical first summit route the last couple of years, and connects to LMC. Trick would require Wand and Showoff or Hocus Pocus (though the 300 line can be used). And it would take out a large section of the work road which they may still want clear.

Mystery does not have working pipes, and the pipes that are there only extend down to where it crosses Green lift. No snowmaking on lower half.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 10, 2021)

Yep, I meant UMC to Medium, not Mystery. 

Since they'd need to charge Lower Magic Carpet anyway for Vertigo I'm betting the rest of the firepower was still on LMC this last run. Vertigo should only take 1/4 of one compressor with six HKDs...


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## IceEidolon (Dec 15, 2021)

__ https://www.facebook.com/29515067037/posts/10158142711432038
			




More very agressive early season snowmaking - color me impressed, especially with single digit lows forecast this weekend. At 10 degrees they should easily max out the pumps, it's just a question of where the snow goes after Vertigo and Lower Carpet is done. My money is on Trick or Carumba since both are out of the way of any ongoing lift work, but there are a lot of possibilities - and wherever they go to I'm confident Vertigo will be in great shape for the holidays.


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2021)

Show Off would come before Carumba to Red, then connect the dots on Wand when the road is done being used.

Trick is another option, then connect the dots also when the road is done being used. 

Totally out of the box but Wizard would be entirely clear of work.


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## slatham (Dec 15, 2021)

Wizard would take an age to finish. And it would impact work - as I understand it the crane needed for #13 needs to go down Wizard to Broomstick and over to tower 13 via the traverse they built for concrete truck. Yeah, that sounds like fun doesn't it.

Assuming they can open upper magic carpet and not impact work, I would guess UMC to Medium. Plus terrain park and upper beginner area. They of course could also put snow on Showoff and/or Hocu Pocus in anticipation of work being done, so all they would need to do then is Wand. 

But the wild card that we do not know is what exactly can they do before #13 is done, and when is it expected to be done?


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## IceEidolon (Dec 15, 2021)

Showoff is also 300 line and that water is likely going to the fan guns on Hocus Pocus, Learning Center, Terrain Park, and the base area - in single digits I think there won't be much left for Showoff, fans or water.

Medium sounds plausable since it isn't itself an access road as long as they're careful of the intersection with UMC. The very top bit of Upper Carpet underneath Red lift an probably get covered since now you can drive under Black, even to the Red terminal. They've got to be thinking about sticking a Ratnik or two up there during this cold when the old school guns will be at their best, same with the four Ratniks at the top of Trick.


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2021)

slatham said:


> Wizard would take an age to finish. And it would impact work - as I understand it the crane needed for #13 needs to go down Wizard to Broomstick and over to tower 13 via the traverse they built for concrete truck. Yeah, that sounds like fun doesn't it.
> 
> Assuming they can open upper magic carpet and not impact work, I would guess UMC to Medium. Plus terrain park and upper beginner area. They of course could also put snow on Showoff and/or Hocu Pocus in anticipation of work being done, so all they would need to do then is Wand.
> 
> But the wild card that we do not know is what exactly can they do before #13 is done, and when is it expected to be done?



That is one operator I wouldn't want to be!

When we did our lift the concrete company made us tie off their trucks with dozers going up and down. The concrete guys has brass balls taking those loads up.


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## Dickc (Dec 16, 2021)

Asked on Facebook today about hanging red's chairs and the response was:  " Measuring and marking rope today so the chairs go on starting tomorrow".  They are making progress!


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## ne_skier (Dec 16, 2021)

They must have already gotten the gearbox shaft in


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## slatham (Dec 17, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> They must have already gotten the gearbox shaft in


Would presume so. Alpine update is a bit late so maybe waiting to be able to confirm chairs are being hung? Good weather for hanging chairs today. Thereafter, a bit cold and snowy.......


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 17, 2021)

fingers crossed they actually get red spinning by the cold and snow and holiday week!

going up north this weekend, but doubt i ski at magic. maybe a quick lap after stratton on Sunday. sugarbush Saturday


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## MG Skier (Dec 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> fingers crossed they actually get red spinning by the cold and snow and holiday week!
> 
> going up north this weekend, but doubt i ski at magic. maybe a quick lap after stratton on Sunday. sugarbush Saturday


Have a great trip Krusty!


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## tumbler (Dec 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> fingers crossed they actually get red spinning by the cold and snow and holiday week!
> 
> going up north this weekend, but doubt i ski at magic. maybe a quick lap after stratton on Sunday. sugarbush Saturday


It's looking snowy Saturday into Sunday...


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 17, 2021)

tumbler said:


> It's looking snowy Saturday into Sunday...



yep, sunday should be a good one. i am fully prepared for Saturday to not be very good and then for the drive from sugarbush to rutland to be unpleasant. but its all good. glad to be skiing.


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## slatham (Dec 17, 2021)

From snow report late yesterday.


SKI REPORT
12/16: Opening weekend is slated for December 18th. With all the warm weather, snow has been made on Lower Magic Carpet and Vertigo off the Green Lift, and the beginner conveyor lift at Little Dipper to get us skiing and riding until mother-nature kicks into high gear next week with cold temps. There looks to be a storm starting on Saturday afternoon into the evening which currently could bring us 6-8″ with a little mixing possible which could be good for the base with cold coming in to lock it down (if it delivers on the high end, we may be able to open a bit more low-angle terrain off Green Lift for Sunday depending on snow density). This will be much needed to re-establish some type of base for any follow up storm over Christmas break to get a lot more terrain open. The crew will be making snow all next week with colder night time temperatures as well to open a groomed run from the summit for Christmas break as well. Red Lift, with its new  drive, drive shaft and haul rope should be state-approved by Christmas week. Between the weather, more snowmaking and lifts, there is a lot coming together for the holiday break. This weekend will be to get our ski legs under us with fun low-angle east side mid-mtn terrain.

Edit: FB post shows chairs going on Red!


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 17, 2021)

a buddy wants to do the grateful dead/the band/allman bros cover band at the BLT on feb 5, so we just booked the blue gentian for that weekend. hopeful for snow!


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## Newpylong (Dec 17, 2021)

slatham said:


> Would presume so. Alpine update is a bit late so maybe waiting to be able to confirm chairs are being hung? Good weather for hanging chairs today. Thereafter, a bit cold and snowy.......





ne_skier said:


> They must have already gotten the gearbox shaft in



Not done yet, nor the drive.


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## slatham (Dec 17, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Not done yet, nor the drive.


Yeah I assumed they needed that done to move the line to put chairs on. Another Monday morning quarterback fail lol.


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## ss20 (Dec 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yep, sunday should be a good one. i am fully prepared for Saturday to not be very good and then for the drive from sugarbush to rutland to be unpleasant. but its all good. glad to be skiing.



Please report back what the trees are like with 8" of snow lol.


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2021)

slatham said:


> Yeah I assumed they needed that done to move the line to put chairs on. Another Monday morning quarterback fail lol.


Nothing shameful about being corrected on technical details of anything mtn ops by Newpylong! God knows I have been corrected countless times over the years!


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## Newpylong (Dec 17, 2021)

Flattering Jeff but I've learned just as much from you folks on things at plenty of places.

Plenty of worse topics than Magic to discuss that's for sure.


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Flattering Jeff but I've learned just as much from you folks on things at plenty of places.
> 
> Plenty of worse topics than Magic to discuss that'





Newpylong said:


> for sure.





Newpylong said:


> Flattering Jeff but I've learned just as much from you folks on things at plenty of places.
> 
> Plenty of worse topics than Magic to discuss that's for sure.


We're all just a mutual therapy group for mountain ops geeks!


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## ThatGuy (Dec 18, 2021)

Snowing at a good rate right now


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## ne_skier (Dec 18, 2021)

Coverage at the top of Green Line a bit after 4, nothing much on its own but will ensure that any future snow sticks for good


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## Dickc (Dec 18, 2021)

__ https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/posts/10158148039552038
			




.

Magic has hung ALL the red chairs, and says the shaft will be in on Monday.  Nnot sure if that is in house or in place in the drive-line, but....


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## slatham (Dec 18, 2021)

Dickc said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/posts/10158148039552038
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From what I've heard they have the drive, and the gear piece that was a last minute need. Install is Monday.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 19, 2021)

From todays snow report:

The crew will be making snow all next week with colder night time temperatures as well to open a groomed run from the summit for Christmas break as well. We are hoping that the Red Lift, with its new drive, drive shaft and haul rope being installed should be state-approved by Christmas week. All 177 chairs are back in the line! Between the weather, more snowmaking and lifts, there is a lot coming together for the holiday break. This weekend we get our ski legs under us with fun low-angle east side mid-mtn terrain. And, it’s a great time to reserve your lessons at snowsprts@magicmtn.com.


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## ne_skier (Dec 20, 2021)

Are there any trails on the east side that are still being kept clear as work roads (I believe Wand was previously mentioned) or is that just Wizard up to Broomstick now?


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## slatham (Dec 20, 2021)

Stopped by Magic this afternoon. Unfortunately I didn't see Matt, and Geoff was out getting a part for something. 

They were slip testing the chairs on Red, and putting on the chair cushions. It was spinning via the motor but not sure if that means everything is installed and good or not. But they are making progress regardless.

4 fan guns on in base area: between Green and Red, just lookers right of Red, in front of lodge/cam, and in the NFLC. Guns also visible up lower carpet and it looked like Vertigo. There's a huge whale under the tower that is right next to the T-bar. Seems logical to lock in the opening weekend terrain with perfect temps down low. Later this week when temps are not as good @base but good mid-mountain up they will move up. Again, my guess is UMC into Medium. IF they need the work road, it'll be only skiers right of UMC. 

The crane for Black tower work is still in Lot B so I presume they need all/most of the work road cleared. Just not sure when that gets moved into place. The only way up is via the work road - LHOM, Wand, UMC.


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## hughconway (Dec 21, 2021)

A friend spoke to Larry W yesterday (who will be coordinating install of the new drive for the red double) and he didn't sound so confident that he'd be able to get the work done before Xmas, so my 11/1 prediction of Magic getting the double inspected and back in service by next week may be in jeopardy.  In spite of all the sniping many of you do about my posts, I wonder how many have taken the time to think & realize that the information I post has always been more accurate than the information Magic provides?

Rumor has it (third hand info, so I can't guarantee accuracy) that Tim P has already let Magic know that his crew will not be able to complete the black quad chair this winter unless significant additional resources are allocated.  I'm guessing this might mean renting a chopper instead of pretending that they're getting a wheeled crane to the top of the mountain in winter.  That would also remove the safety challenge of getting heavy equipment over the high voltage power lines running exposed across the surface of Broomstick to feed the summit cell towers.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 21, 2021)

Thanks for the info hugh, been waiting with great anticipation for it. I heard myself from a fifth hand source that seal team 6 is going to bring their chopper over and install black.


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## Newpylong (Dec 21, 2021)

hughconway said:


> A friend spoke to Larry W yesterday (who will be coordinating install of the new drive for the red double) and he didn't sound so confident that he'd be able to get the work done before Xmas, so my 11/1 prediction of Magic getting the double inspected and back in service by next week may be in jeopardy.  In spite of all the sniping many of you do about my posts, I wonder how many have taken the time to think & realize that the information I post has always been more accurate than the information Magic provides?
> 
> Rumor has it (third hand info, so I can't guarantee accuracy) that Tim P has already let Magic know that his crew will not be able to complete the black quad chair this winter unless significant additional resources are allocated.  I'm guessing this might mean renting a chopper instead of pretending that they're getting a wheeled crane to the top of the mountain in winter.  That would also remove the safety challenge of getting heavy equipment over the high voltage power lines running exposed across the surface of Broomstick to feed the summit cell towers.



I would think it's a given that tower modifications are likely not going to happen mid-winter given the topography of that lift. But at least Deep Throat has confirmed it now.


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## ne_skier (Dec 21, 2021)

What on earth did Magic do to this man


----------



## machski (Dec 21, 2021)

hughconway said:


> A friend spoke to Larry W yesterday (who will be coordinating install of the new drive for the red double) and he didn't sound so confident that he'd be able to get the work done before Xmas, so my 11/1 prediction of Magic getting the double inspected and back in service by next week may be in jeopardy.  In spite of all the sniping many of you do about my posts, I wonder how many have taken the time to think & realize that the information I post has always been more accurate than the information Magic provides?
> 
> Rumor has it (third hand info, so I can't guarantee accuracy) that Tim P has already let Magic know that his crew will not be able to complete the black quad chair this winter unless significant additional resources are allocated.  I'm guessing this might mean renting a chopper instead of pretending that they're getting a wheeled crane to the top of the mountain in winter.  That would also remove the safety challenge of getting heavy equipment over the high voltage power lines running exposed across the surface of Broomstick to feed the summit cell towers.


With all due respect to your infinite wisdom, Magic does have to try and sell what they do have.  Honestly, they are the most direct mountain to keep folks updated of the progress.  If they slant to the rosier side, well you really can't blame them there.


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## MG Skier (Dec 21, 2021)

Magic needs a break! 

Hoping for a Christmas miracle that Red can be finished and inspected.
Quad......If they can get the crane into position to do the work I bet it "lives" on the mountain for the season. If more snow hits like we hope it does, there might not be an opportunity to extract it. Regardless, I'd like to witness the effort up or down.

Say what you want, they are pushing and doing whatever it takes. Carry on Ops, keep sending pics/videos!


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## IceEidolon (Dec 21, 2021)

Provided Red runs, I don't honestly see the lack of the quad damaging the experience much, thanks to Magic's ticket sales limits. Holidays'll have a bit longer lines as will powder days, but nothing like the corporate places. It won't be great for the court of public opinion, though, and probably cut into day ticket sales/mean no raising of the ticket sales cap. Shame.

They look to have just about 'round the clock temps straight through to Christmas, so that should help ensure coverage if Red is done on time/faster than rumor.


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## Bosco DaSkia (Dec 21, 2021)

Hugh Conway can not be defeated!
























Fact.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 21, 2021)

at least his recent post seems a bit more measured and less intentionally shitting all over magic's efforts than usual


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## NYDB (Dec 22, 2021)

Assuming there is terrain to ski from the summit and red isn't ready -  Will there be uphill allowed past mid mountain this weekend and next week?


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## AdironRider (Dec 22, 2021)

It is going to take Magic over four years to install a lift. Four. 

If this was the old owner people would be lining up with pitchforks, but internet friends own it now.


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2021)

The truth is, based on their pass sales and attendance levels the past few seasons, and not just during ski season but at year round events that often involve the BLT, I am wondering if short of a few folks on places like AZ and a few other ski forums as well as Magic's social media feeds from time to time, if there are really that many people that upset with the trials and tribulations that have been synonamous with the Black since from not too long after it arrived on site from Stratton? 

In general, most people seem to think that Magic is headed in the right direction, and have chosen to continue their support via their wallets through the set backs around the Black, and heck even the Green as it neared it's completion.

Wishing nothing but the best to Geoff and his entire crew and getting Magic to the place they have for it in their vision of it!


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## icecoast1 (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> It is going to take Magic over four years to install a lift. Four.
> 
> If this was the old owner people would be lining up with pitchforks, but internet friends own it now.


I guess that's the difference between taking a more open and honest approach to communication vs the Vail way of doing things.  

Other than buying a brand new lift and having it installed by the manufacturer, what more could they have done?


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## ThatGuy (Dec 22, 2021)

There’s probably three weekends a year where Black is actually needed anyway. Red being ready for summit access is more important right now and that seems to be on track for completion.


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## slatham (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> It is going to take Magic over four years to install a lift. Four.
> 
> If this was the old owner people would be lining up with pitchforks, but internet friends own it now.


Can't argue with your underlying point, but it hasn't been 4 years. They received Act 250 Permit in Jan of 2019.


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## AdironRider (Dec 22, 2021)

They purchased the lift in May of 2018. By the time it spins it will be well over 4 years. Taking almost a year just to get the permit does not help the proper management argument, notably to replace a lift that already exists already. The overwhelming majority of ACT 250 permits are issued in under 60 days.

Hugh's point about communication is not wrong either. It is basically straight up lying to say they are going to use a crane to install the black lift mid winter. That isn't truthful and upfront communication, basically the opposite actually.

Magic is very lucky to have the following they do. Not many ski areas can get away with this kind of stuff and not be panned widely, or worse, NELSAP.


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2021)

I wonder if one of the tracked vehicle all terrain, all season cranes like are used by power companies to access power delivery lines, even in remote mountain locations year round, may end up being part of the answer for the Black and potential completion this season? Not sure if those types of vehicles have the lifting capacity that would be needed for that tower on the Black. But I wouldn't doubt that they could access the location based on some of the locations they can get to for power delivery line work.

Heck, there's a company just off of Route 100 about an hour South of Magic in Jacksonville, Riggs-Distler, that has multiple vehicles of that type that I see every time I drive by it on my way to/from Mount Snow.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> The overwhelming majority of ACT 250 permits are issued in under 60 days.


Depends on the complexity of the project.   If they had just used the same lift line as old black and didn't have to cut trees to extend it up the hill, then yes it probably would have gone quicker


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## Newpylong (Dec 22, 2021)

I do notice it's the people who don't even ski there that are crying the most foul. For those that ski there, well, they know the score.

As for the ACT 250 point, this is not entirely true. This was not a direct replacement as the lift is slightly a new alignment requiring a new line for the top 1/3. You know what that means? Full environmental review. The Pohlig they replaced probably is so old you couldn't even amend an existing permit which is usually done for more recent installs.

As for the rest, sure you could argue the optimism could have been toned down. Sure you could argue it should have been put in quicker. However, hindsight is 20/20 and as someone who HAS been been involved in multiple lift installs, when you aren't dealing with Poma, Dopp or Skytrac, this sh*t happens. There are exactly 3 contractors who can do this work in the Eastern US. One I wouldn't use, and neither would Magic. The other is more southern, and that leaves PMS. Tim has a lot of clients. All of those clients pay the bills. Some of those clients need work done a lot more urgently than a secondary summit lift. You can be disappointed but you have to roll with the punches or be big enough to have your own staff to do the Civil Engineering and the install.


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## cdskier (Dec 22, 2021)

On the ACT 250 front, typically you'd start that process when you first start planning to replace a lift. This was a unique situation because the lift became available to purchase from a neighbor and wasn't something they were planning to do right at that point originally. So that screws up your timing of the permitting process right there. Unless someone had a crystal ball to know earlier that they'd end up buying that used lift, it would have been difficult to start that process much earlier.


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## AdironRider (Dec 22, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I do notice it's the people who don't even ski there that are crying the most foul. For those that ski there, well, they know the score.
> 
> As for the ACT 250 point, this is not entirely true. This was not a direct replacement as the lift is slightly a new alignment requiring a new line for the top 1/3. You know what that means? Full environmental review. The Pohlig they replaced probably is so old you couldn't even amend an existing permit which is usually done for more recent installs.
> 
> As for the rest, sure you could argue the optimism could have been toned down. Sure you could argue it should have been put in quicker. However, hindsight is 20/20 and as someone who HAS been been involved in multiple lift installs, when you aren't dealing with Poma, Dopp or Skytrac, this sh*t happens. There are exactly 3 contractors who can do this work in the Eastern US. One I wouldn't use, and neither would Magic. The other is more southern, and that leaves PMS. Tim has a lot of clients. All of those clients pay the bills. Some of those clients need work done a lot more urgently than a secondary summit lift. You can be disappointed but you have to roll with the punches or be big enough to have your own staff to do the Civil Engineering and the install.



Please point out another lift install that took four years just to install after purchase, because that is not common at all. Magic has directly marketed the black quad as not a secondary lift but the primary by the way. 

And even still, fine, I can buy the they aren't a major player argument, but I think this whole "they are the best at communication" thing is laughable ultimately. They've been talking about this for years  and at some point it leads one to think they are just winging it. Magic has faithful now but the faithful turned on the last owner after a few instances just like this.


----------



## machski (Dec 22, 2021)

icecoast1 said:


> I guess that's the difference between taking a more open and honest approach to communication vs the Vail way of doing things.
> 
> Other than buying a brand new lift and having it installed by the manufacturer, what more could they have done?


Gone with the OEM to do the install of the used lift.  But that was likely far pricier than using Pfister.  But you wind up dealing with the starts and stops when engineering issues come up (after all, you are taking a lift designed for one line at one mountain and trying to spatula it into a totally different terrain line).  The up front outlay of capital to have L-P do the re-engineering and install was likely a bit more than Magic could handle when the opportunity to buy Snowbowl popped up.  In the end, the total outlay may have been less to go the L-P route, but thia path they are on allows a more metered outlay of capital.  Assuming it doesn't damage the brand, this should work for them in the end.


----------



## urungus (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> It is going to take Magic over four years to install a lift. Four.
> 
> If this was the old owner people would be lining up with pitchforks, but internet friends own it now.


LOL, previous owner started work on the Green Chair in 2003 and it still wasn’t completed 13 years later in November 2016 when current ownership took over.  New owners got Green up and running by January 2019, two years later.  Ridiculous to complain about current ownership vs. the old.


----------



## skimagic (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> Please point out another lift install that took four years just to install after purchase, because that is not common at all. Magic has directly marketed the black quad as not a secondary lift but the primary by the way.


Montana Snowbowl took five years to install a used double chair. 

Although the black chair was mentioned as eventually being the main lift up , it doesn't really matter because the red has always been the main lift to the top.  Nothing has has changed.   I doubt more than a handful of season pass holders are upset about the delay.   And if so,  they can always  go EPIC next season.


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## Newpylong (Dec 22, 2021)

machski said:


> Gone with the OEM to do the install of the used lift.  But that was likely far pricier than using Pfister.  But you wind up dealing with the starts and stops when engineering issues come up (after all, you are taking a lift designed for one line at one mountain and trying to spatula it into a totally different terrain line).  The up front outlay of capital to have L-P do the re-engineering and install was likely a bit more than Magic could handle when the opportunity to buy Snowbowl popped up.  In the end, the total outlay may have been less to go the L-P route, but thia path they are on allows a more metered outlay of capital.  Assuming it doesn't damage the brand, this should work for them in the end.



That is assuming they would want anything to do with it. Poma has trended to only touch a reinstall if it's packaged with a new install.


----------



## machski (Dec 22, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> That is assuming they would want anything to do with it. Poma has trended to only touch a reinstall if it's packaged with a new install.


Good point, all the reinstalls I can think of they have done have been within an ownership group upgrading an existing lift and then reinstalling the used elsewhere within their portfolio.


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 22, 2021)

Slightly off topic but I heard that Magic had been planning on replacing Red in 2 years until they got word of necessary repairs this summer. Wonder what they would have put in.


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## ss20 (Dec 22, 2021)

urungus said:


> LOL, previous owner started work on the Green Chair in 2003 and it still wasn’t completed 13 years later in November 2016 when current ownership took over.  New owners got Green up and running by January 2019, two years later.



This argument has come up before.  Green they worked on quietly and when it was ready, they gave two weeks notice.  Black has been "just around the corner" for a looooong time.  If they just installed it at their own pace and didn't promise any completion dates similar to green I'd be fine.  I'm fully in the boat with @AdironRider that Magic has gotten a few too many passes on Black... not so much that it's taken this long, but that there's been a ton of missed deadlines that had been communicated to the public.


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## ss20 (Dec 22, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Slightly off topic but I heard that Magic had been planning on replacing Red in 2 years until they got word of necessary repairs this summer. Wonder what they would have put in.



Highly doubt that.  I doubt they ever fully replace red and do something similar to the MRG single major overhaul in the mid 00s.  Too iconic a lift.


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## ne_skier (Dec 22, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Highly doubt that.  I doubt they ever fully replace red and do something similar to the MRG single major overhaul in the mid 00s.  Too iconic a lift.


I was surprised when I saw that too, I figured there would be a riot if that happened. I’d happily contribute $ to a MRG-style rehab if the time came.
Here’s where I saw it: https://www.skijournal.com/magic-mountain-vermont-indy-pass/


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## ss20 (Dec 22, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> I was surprised when I saw that too, I figured there would be a riot if that happened. I’d happily contribute $ to a MRG-style rehab if the time came.
> Here’s where I saw it: https://www.skijournal.com/magic-mountain-vermont-indy-pass/



It's sounds more like reporter confusion on replacement vs rehab...



> Built in 1971, Magic’s iconic Red Chair, which carries skiers 1,500 vertical feet to the summit, was slated for replacement two years from now, but inspections bumped the timeline to begin repairs earlier this year.
> 
> “It truly is a soulful lift,” Hatheway said. “But it is 50 years old and we need it to last another few decades.”


----------



## skithetrees (Dec 22, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Highly doubt that.  I doubt they ever fully replace red and do something similar to the MRG single major overhaul in the mid 00s.  Too iconic a lift.


Agreed. That said, I am a bit frustrated about the black lift. I have two young kids that I would like to ride with me and am a pass holder.  Can’t put them both on red with me. Is what it is, but will be somewhat annoyed if black doesn’t run this year. That said, I give the team a lot of credit. What they accomplish each year with a small crew is commendable and deserves recognition. They have moved the mountain forward far more than any previous recent owner and I am appreciative. That said, need to be realistic about how much they can do at once and when it will get done.


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## ne_skier (Dec 22, 2021)

My opinion on the recent Black debacle: Do I think that Magic PR has been overzealous with their optimism and opening projections, and do I think that they should avoid making promises to avert any PR embarrassments? Yes. Do I think that Magic PR is purposefully deceiving and lying to their clientele, and that rather than making hard to meet promises they are being intentionally dishonest to people? Hard no.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 22, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> My opinion on the recent Black debacle: Do I think that Magic PR has been overzealous with their optimism and opening projections, and do I think that they should avoid making promises to avert any PR embarrassments? Yes. Do I think that Magic PR is purposefully deceiving and lying to their clientele, and that rather than making hard to meet promises they are being intentionally dishonest to people? Hard no.


I think they get just as excited as us and want to share the news, and it ends up biting them in the butt sometimes


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## NYDB (Dec 23, 2021)

no summit lift access until at least 12/29.  Bummer.


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2021)

ss20 said:


> This argument has come up before.  Green they worked on quietly and when it was ready, they gave two weeks notice.  Black has been "just around the corner" for a looooong time.  If they just installed it at their own pace and didn't promise any completion dates similar to green I'd be fine.  I'm fully in the boat with @AdironRider that Magic has gotten a few too many passes on Black... not so much that it's taken this long, but that there's been a ton of missed deadlines that had been communicated to the public.



Sorry this is rather revisionist. There was nothing quiet about the work or communication that went on with Green either. 

There were just as many "promises" (if you want to call them that) about that lift being ready and then slipping as well. Far more work than was anticipated, the original installer passing away, and the Pjister again being pulled to other clients, etc and so on. I am fairly sure the Magic folks are having deja vu with Black.

The difference is how the communication is being interpreted. Are they really promising something or are they just confident and announcing a date, only to have it slip? My guess is not many actual customers see it as the former or pass sales wouldn't be off the charts.

I think the lesson would be take a more realistic assessment before committing and communicating dates for capital projects. When those dates are communicated, pad them sufficiently. 

Don't forget it's been a while since Ski Magic LLC took over but they are still relatively new at operating the area. Running a ski area and all its nuances is quite unique.


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## hughconway (Dec 23, 2021)

Amazing to see how surprised some seem that the information I have provided is, once again, more timely and accurate than Magic's official PR BS that most seem to be gulping down with large quantities of kool-aide.

I think an 'I told you so....again' is appropriate here.


----------



## skiur (Dec 23, 2021)

hughconway said:


> Amazing to see how surprised some seem that the information I have provided is, once again, more timely and accurate than Magic's official PR BS that most seem to be gulping down with large quantities of kool-aide.
> 
> I think an 'I told you so....again' is appropriate here.



Why do you feel like you need a pat on the back.  There is something very disconcerting about you and your obsession with magic.


----------



## machski (Dec 23, 2021)

hughconway said:


> Amazing to see how surprised some seem that the information I have provided is, once again, more timely and accurate than Magic's official PR BS that most seem to be gulping down with large quantities of kool-aide.
> 
> I think an 'I told you so....again' is appropriate here.


You may well have wound up being correct, but your arm chair quarterbacking attitude you present causes many to discredit you (and the fact you are not the one running the place and trying to make it work this time around).


----------



## NYDB (Dec 23, 2021)




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## slatham (Dec 23, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Slightly off topic but I heard that Magic had been planning on replacing Red in 2 years until they got word of necessary repairs this summer. Wonder what they would have put in.



This was the haul rope. They expected another season or two but got word in June (or thereabouts) that they needed a new haul rope this year. So they got thrown a major curveball in the midst of planned work on Red and of course Black install. Then they had to pay extra to assure they could get the haul rope delivered this year, and even then it was late due to supply chain issues.

But I am sure to Hugh all off this was obvious............


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 23, 2021)

As to 60 days for an Act 250 permit. Have you looked at the file? It is public. Vernal pools, little alpine birds etc. And a lot more. Magic could have stayed in the old Black footprint and saved a lot of time I suppose.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 23, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> As to 60 days for an Act 250 permit. Have you looked at the file? It is public. Vernal pools, little alpine birds etc. And a lot more. Magic could have stayed in the old Black footprint and saved a lot of time I suppose.


But then it wouldn't have been a true 2nd summit lift


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## skithetrees (Dec 23, 2021)

icecoast1 said:


> But then it wouldn't have been a true 2nd summit lift


Yes and no. Can’t really access anything additional off new black versus the old black. That said, it goes to the top so it makes sense. What would have been amazing would have been to get the bottom terminal about 200 ft lower so it sat between the lodge and maintenance shed. Would have been more convenient to get to, but probably a big hassle to do.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 23, 2021)

One of my friends works at Bromley and told me about how a couple years ago some guy showed up at their ticket window yelling about how Magic sucks and his skis got ruined there. Starting to think it might’ve been hughconway


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## IceEidolon (Dec 23, 2021)

As far as it goes, the current management has a line of credit that extends pretty much as long as a summit lift spins for serious natural snowfall (they got lucky this year) and as long as reasonable snowmaking efforts continue (regular upgrades - Vertigo is the second trail open!) and as long as food beer and good vibes are present at the BLT. 

I do think the marketing has been overly honest - IMO it would be far better to keep the completion timeline vague and surprise guests with an early opening, in much the same way that there's no announced opening day for a particular skill trail until the snowmaking window is well in progress. 

At the end of this process there should be a pair of reliable summit lifts fresh out of overhauls, and then we can all go back to debating snowmaking again instead. s/


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## urungus (Dec 27, 2021)

Wow, over 4 feet of snow in the last day, must be a Christmas Miracle


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## ne_skier (Dec 27, 2021)

woah…got a little excited there for half a second


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## slatham (Dec 27, 2021)

Snow reporter must be working remotely from the Sierra!

F'd up thing is we'd all rejoice at just 5" new.

Unfortunately its not even 0.5".


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## Newpylong (Dec 27, 2021)

I think the continuous thaw-freeze cycles are even worse than the lack of snow. Decent man-made on less terrain is tolerable, but the freeuroy and east coast boiler so far at every mountain is rough!


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## ne_skier (Dec 27, 2021)

As for snow, keep in mind we had absolutely zero a year ago from now, and we didn’t get the whole mountain open till the double snowstorms on MLK. Hope’s still out there, or at least I think


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## tumbler (Dec 27, 2021)

Load testing Red tomorrow


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## urungus (Dec 27, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Load testing Red tomorrow


Fingers crossed.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 27, 2021)

How often do lifts fail a load test? 

Also, I'm assuming this test uses Bromley's borrowed barrels - if so, thanks to them.


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## Newpylong (Dec 27, 2021)

I've been part of a failed test and it's usually due to the braking system. Filling up and emptying those barrels sure stinks.

Always a fingers crossed type of event but assuming no fluke issues, they do the maintenace where they will pass just fine.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 28, 2021)

I've always been busy trying to get old York stuff fixed during load test season, thanks for the insight.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Dec 28, 2021)

Assuming they get the lift running - what runs up top can they have ready to go, and how soon?


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## NYDB (Dec 28, 2021)

After an early lunch I took my youngest today to grab the passes and to take a few laps on green.  

Fast n Firm for sure with the expected icy patches but decent for the weather.  

I wasn’t too inquisitive about red but looked like the load test was happening later.  We left at 2ish and i didn’t see any real movement.  

hope it went well.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 28, 2021)

There is a problem with the work road and access by the crane. So Wand is out and Broomstick is out. They say they are working on Upper Trick and Magic Carpet.


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## skiur (Dec 28, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> There is a problem with the work road and access by the crane. So Wand is out and Broomstick is out. They say they are working on Upper Trick and Magic Carpet.



What's the problem?


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## tumbler (Dec 28, 2021)

Did Red pass?


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## cdskier (Dec 28, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Did Red pass?



From Facebook...
_Good progress on Red as state lift inspector put her through a battery of tests and her new haul rope, new drive and new shaft are looking good! Due to length of time for Load testing (barrels filled with 399 lbs of water on 83 chairs), and the need for daylight during testing, that portion of state approval process will start at 7am tomorrow. Hope to have it done and ready for skiers if all goes well for sometime in the afternoon._


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## ne_skier (Dec 28, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> After an early lunch I took my youngest today to grab the passes and to take a few laps on green.
> 
> Fast n Firm for sure with the expected icy patches but decent for the weather.
> 
> ...


Looked on the webcam and saw Red spinning around 3 without barrels on chairs, looked to be going design speed.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 28, 2021)

skiur said:


> What's the problem?


They need to get the crane over it so they are reluctant to make snow on it would be my guess.


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## NYDB (Dec 28, 2021)

Plus I would say that a lot of the east side could get open with some dense snow maybe 8” +/-  (which is crazy with how little snow has fallen season to date ) but mother nature is dropping an inch of rain Sat into Sun instead.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 28, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> They need to get the crane over it so they are reluctant to make snow on it would be my guess.


Reading the latest Facebook posts I think Geoff is throwing in the towel for Black this winter. I'm going tomorrow.


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## slatham (Dec 28, 2021)

UMC into Medium is ready to go from what I understand. They are now working on upper Trick into the "through the woods" section of UMC. I am sure they are doing this as it can use the LMC run to the base, as they have not made snow on Wand into Show Off or Hocus Pocus.

Given snowmaking on "Through the Woods" they obviously are not trying keep the work road clear. While I am not sure what they did on UMC, you COULD open this on skiers right and keep work road clear. That is not possible IMHO in the Through the Woods section  - too narrow. What this means about the status of Black is anyone's guess (my guess is either next season, or using a helicopter for Tower 13).

After Trick/TTW's is done, the rest of key east side runs should go relatively quickly - assuming good temps - as they can use both 300 and 400 water loops. So lower Trick and Wand on 400 and Hocus Pocus and Show Off on 300.

A change in the weather pattern would be welcome right now but it seems at least a week away....


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## IceEidolon (Dec 29, 2021)

I know it's possible but a huge pain to haul tracked/wheeled vehicles up a snow covered trail using several cats, and it's also possible to strip a trail down to basically bare then push clean snow over the bare spot afterwards. Is it plausable they now expect to drag the crane up one of the hard ways?


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2021)

IceEidolon said:


> I know it's possible but a huge pain to haul tracked/wheeled vehicles up a snow covered trail using several cats, and it's also possible to strip a trail down to basically bare then push clean snow over the bare spot afterwards. Is it plausable they now expect to drag the crane up one of the hard ways?



I am guessing that if the cost/benefit return ratio makes fiscal sense, that there's a company with the proper machinery to get the job done, regardless of how much snow may need to be moved in the short term to make it happen.  

If Magic has one thing going for it with respect to trying to get that tower on the Black taken care of in the near future, it's that with the limited snowpack thus far, if they try and drag a crane up there, it's got more of a solid surface to be dragged over than say if there was a couple of feet of snow (of any type) on the ground right now


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## Newpylong (Dec 29, 2021)

I say throw the towel in on it and get the coverage down and move on with the season. Off-season construction is far less costly and their crews have been through the ringer so far it seems.


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## slatham (Dec 29, 2021)

Red is loading!!!!


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## ThatGuy (Dec 29, 2021)

Awesome, thats great news. Will be there tomorrow for some summit runs.


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## NYDB (Dec 29, 2021)

just got a ride on red with the youngest.  a bit of a herky Jerky affair.  they stopped loading it after a bunch of chairs because it wasn't running quite right.  hopefully it's a minor issue and it runs tommorow.

snow was amazing on the top half


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## skithetrees (Dec 29, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> just got a ride on red with the youngest.  a bit of a herky Jerky affair.  they stopped loading it after a bunch of chairs because it wasn't running quite right.  hopefully it's a minor issue and it runs tommorow.
> 
> snow was amazing on the top half


Hoping for the best on that. Not to speculate too much, but seemed like the drive was surging once the lift was fully loaded. Hopefully a minor hiccup that can get resolved over night. Was nice to be up top!


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## Newpylong (Dec 29, 2021)

I bet they found some issues with the new drive that will need to be addressed before it loads customers again. It's pretty typical when you pair it with an old motor. Gotta get in the PLC to do the fine tuning. Getting the load test done is clutch the rest is minor!


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## skithetrees (Dec 29, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I bet they found some issues with the new drive that will need to be addressed before it loads customers again. It's pretty typical when you pair it with an old motor. Gotta get in the PLC to do the fine tuning. Getting the load test done is clutch the rest is minor!


Pretty much exactly what magic said on Facebook. I was on the lift and it started surging pretty badly as soon as it was 2/3 loaded. They stopped it, tried again a few times but it kept surging. Was run at slow speed to unload everyone, with no surging issues.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Dec 29, 2021)

I will redirect to B.East for Friday based on these reports


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 29, 2021)

The surging was rather dynamic. I was watching the sheaves and they didn't quite come to a stop each time. I wonder why this didn't show up in the load test.


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## cdskier (Dec 29, 2021)

I'm rather enjoying reading some of the comments from a few random haters on Magic's FB page. I wonder which one is Hugh under another name!


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## NYDB (Dec 29, 2021)

It was a bit like riding a roller coaster.   I felt a bit of lift sickness.  

For the record - I did not receive a hot chocolate voucher.


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## skithetrees (Dec 29, 2021)

JoeB-Z said:


> The surging was rather dynamic. I was watching the sheaves and they didn't quite come to a stop each time. I wonder why this didn't show up in the load test.


That’s what surging is. Not stop/start, but a somewhat rhythmic variation in rpm. Wouldn’t have showed up in the load test as that was largely static. The barrels are loaded in a stop start process and the lift only runs a few feet under full load before the emergency stop is hit. They will figure it out, just frustrating.


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## Newpylong (Dec 29, 2021)

Yep, even once the barrels are all filled the chair does not really operate at "normal" speed for long. Just long enough to apply the service brake, the emergency brake and APU brake. Then it runs slowly start/stop again to dump them out at the top. Remember it's meant to simulate safety mechanism with a full load, the drive and/motor is not really a safety mechanism. The loaded chairs can't go past the last tower per lift spec so it can't operate normal speed for all but a few feet.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 29, 2021)

a load test is necessary to demonstrate that the electronic drive can accelerate and control a fully loaded lift from a stopped condition.  it's common for the drive to be "tweaked" a few times during the barrel loading process.  once fully loaded there are typically a number of empty chairs at the top, to provide running and stopping room for each braking system to be tested.  the missing mass from these empty chairs would be spread out over the length of the lift.  if all goes to plan, the last loaded chair is at the unload station at the end of the braking tests.  the various rollback devices will be tested at this time, then the apu is coupled up to demonstrate it too can accelerate and control the load.   

once fully loaded, the deceleration rate of each braking system is noted and checked against the national standard.  adjustments are made as needed, and the lift may need to be slowly allowed to reverse direction if needed.  the braking time must be between the minimum and maximums, as too long a stopping distance may be equally as bad as too short a stop distance.  regen drives on both fixed-grip and detachable grip chairlifts are common these days.  on lifts with regen drives, the drive slows the lift in a controlled manner and the service brake only applies as the lift comes to a stop.  to say that the drive/motor is not really a safety mechanism depends on your def of safety system i guess.  the lift drive monitors speed, maintains / controls acceleration rates (and decel rates with a regen drive) under varying load conditions, and i'd say it's an inherent part of the safety system.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 30, 2021)

Red's not exactly a spring chicken, and nobody's mentioned any Regen braking capability. Regardless, if they're it able to run a couple hundred feet at full power spread over a couple starts and stops, I'm not surprised a subtle oscillation wasn't caught right away


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## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2021)

zoomzoom said:


> a load test is necessary to demonstrate that the electronic drive can accelerate and control a fully loaded lift from a stopped condition.  it's common for the drive to be "tweaked" a few times during the barrel loading process.  once fully loaded there are typically a number of empty chairs at the top, to provide running and stopping room for each braking system to be tested.  the missing mass from these empty chairs would be spread out over the length of the lift.  if all goes to plan, the last loaded chair is at the unload station at the end of the braking tests.  the various rollback devices will be tested at this time, then the apu is coupled up to demonstrate it too can accelerate and control the load.
> 
> once fully loaded, the deceleration rate of each braking system is noted and checked against the national standard.  adjustments are made as needed, and the lift may need to be slowly allowed to reverse direction if needed.  the braking time must be between the minimum and maximums, as too long a stopping distance may be equally as bad as too short a stop distance.  regen drives on both fixed-grip and detachable grip chairlifts are common these days.  on lifts with regen drives, the drive slows the lift in a controlled manner and the service brake only applies as the lift comes to a stop.  to say that the drive/motor is not really a safety mechanism depends on your def of safety system i guess.  the lift drive monitors speed, maintains / controls acceleration rates (and decel rates with a regen drive) under varying load conditions, and i'd say it's an inherent part of the safety system.



As you said, that depends on age of the drive itself. None of ours had regen, they are on or off so they are not safety mechanisms. They either propel the lift forward or not. Stopping the lift was the job of the service brake, the emergency brake and in the worst case scenario, the drop dog(s).

For new lifts with regen, absolutely, they are the first step in a line of safety mechanisms. Don't know what Red has...


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2021)

red running smoove. corduroy up top is sweet. lowers trails still holding up well


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## zoomzoom (Dec 30, 2021)

for further discussion i'd opine that the cable tach is a critical part of the drive system, as it gives input to the motor drive.  the lift shall slow and stop automatically if line speed exceeds +10%, and the bullwheel brake shall apply if line speeds exceed +15% or reverse rotation is detected.  the cable tach is part of the drive, a safety device in my view.  but i'm old and cratchety.  : )


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## urungus (Dec 30, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> red running smoove. corduroy up top is sweet. lowers trails still holding up well


What run(s) are open from the top ?  Trail report has not been updated.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 30, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> red running smoove. corduroy up top is sweet. lowers trails still holding up well


Red is stopped right now, lucked out not getting stuck on it


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2021)

ran for about an hour then surging again


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## slatham (Dec 30, 2021)

UMC into Medium were noted yesterday (somewhere) as run from top. 1 run.


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2021)

yeah just one route.  looks like they are close for umc through the woods and upper trick.


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## skithetrees (Dec 30, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> ran for about an hour then surging again


Yeah, not happy about that at all. They ran it for a long time with it surging (probably half the line length). Chairs were bouncing probably close to 4-5 feet between towers and nearly hitting the pole coming around the bull wheel up top. No idea why they didn’t slow it down (which stopped the surging each time). One of a handful of times in 30 years I have been really pissed off at them. I am not a lift engineer, but do have an engineering degree, but I can’t imagine all that bouncing and cyclical stress is good for anything. I give them lots of credit and am, of course, a huge fan, but no good today.


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2021)

yeah it sucks.  we had 2 smooth laps and then the third lift ride went awry.  we looked back on the third lap and they were still loading the lift with the surging.  

I figured they'd have stopped loading immediately but it wasn't the case.


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## drjeff (Dec 30, 2021)

Just posted on their FB page....

"
Red Lift Update:
While the Red lift passed its inspection and load testing yesterday, some mechanical issues arose with the new drive during operation late yesterday. Adjustments were then made to the new drive by the contracted electric drive engineer and was ready for operation by midday. After a couple hours of operation, the lift had mechanical failure with the drive system. During that failure, one lift chair on the non-passenger downhill side of the lift line swung violently against a tower and fell off the line. All passengers on the uploading side of the lift, were successfully and safely off-loaded at the top with the lift  running on slow speed. The Vermont state lift inspector was here soon after to review the lift situation. Both Pfister Mountain Services and the electric drive engineer will be working with us to diagnose and fix the mechanical failure in the drive system. It will most likely take some time and we will keep you posted on our findings.
We will have the Green Lift running to mid-mountain as before and we will have reduced prices tickets available.
We’ve worked hard to get this lift ready and approved, and will work hard with our lift contractor to get this issue diagnosed and fixed as quickly as possible.
Thank you for your understanding and patience.
- Geoff"

THey just can't catch a brake this year....


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## skithetrees (Dec 30, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Just posted on their FB page....
> 
> "
> Red Lift Update:
> ...


No, this was not about catching a break. This was poor operation. The lift was surging and chairs were bouncing 5 feet in the air between poles. Of course something broke. See my post above. I was worried this would happen. In fact, I told ski patrol and the guy in the top shack to slow the lift down because it was surging and bouncing so badly. If the lift operators and others repsonsible for safety can’t recognize a dangerous situation, they need someone who can. Chairs were swinging around the bull wheel and nearly hitting the tower for minutes before this happened. Of course something broke when it was surging so badly. I give magic so much benefit of the doubt, but stuff like this isn’t safe. Not cool.


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## Smellytele (Dec 30, 2021)

Sometimes you get what you pay for.
I love magic but…


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Sometimes you get what you pay for.
> I love magic but…


Do you have some info about magic cheaping out on the red lift repair?


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## skithetrees (Dec 30, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Do you have some info about magic cheaping out on the red lift repair?


No reason to believe that. I work for a company that makes drives, though not for this kind of application. They need fine tuning. But once a problem is readily apparent, it needs to be addressed safely.


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## hughconway (Dec 30, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Do you have some info about magic cheaping out on the red lift repair?



I'd tell you, but you wouldn't believe me.

From the initial reports this is a mechanical issue that was massively compounded by negligence.  It's a miracle no one was seriously injured or killed.  There is NO WAY that Magic should have continued loading passengers onto that tramway without the surge issue 100% resolved and TESTED - while loaded.  I'm sure they didn't want to slow down the re-opening of the chair by re-filling barrels to allow the drive tuning results to be fully tested before loading customers.  Instead, they gambled with the safety of the customers and lost big.

The most outrageous part, in my opinion, comes from some of the anecdotes shared here.  Customers approaching lift operators and reporting serious safety issues were apparently ignored and the continued to operate the lift recklessly?!?  Mindblowing.


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## Smellytele (Dec 30, 2021)

Oh no I brought Hugh back. Sorry


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 30, 2021)

Woof. Hope they can get it together.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 30, 2021)

I felt the need to register and respond after watching this disaster unfold. I learned to ski on the lift at 3 years old. I was on the first lift ride in 96 when it spun after 6 years of dormancy with lifts hanging and rusting the entire time With 3 inches of ice on chair (scariest lift ride of my life) I was in the lodge when a chair on the black lift slid back into another chair. I was stuck on black lift for 3 hours once. Throughout all of that (and much more) I supported magic and their efforts. I decided five years ago that I had had enough of the incompetence, negligence and dangerous conditions perpetuated by the parade of former “owners“and packed up for greener (and safer) pastures.

That said I had high hopes for this new ownership and vowed to be back to ski and support the mountain once they had proven themselves to be a more responsible and professional investment group. They have consistently fallen short in virtually every way imaginable And I have yet to return because of what I’ve witnessed from afar. No need to rehash their long string of broken promises and failures. You all know.

What they have succeeded at (brilliantly I might add) is creating an almost cult like mentality and adulation among their customer base that questions nothing and crushes any dissent all while bashing any and all other mountains as unenlightened and “corporate“

Today all my fears every time getting on those lifts came to fruition. and virtually nobody is saying a word. my favorite comment from yesterday as the lift bounced five feet in the air was “it was a rather jerky jerky affair” talk about sugar coating a potential disaster!

The new Green lift is almost 40 Years old, the “new“Black lift is 30 and both are reinstalls one of which was engineered wrong and the other  half done and in the parking lot for 15 years before completion. The red lift is far past it’s prime and is having band aids applied.

not only would I never get on any of those lifts ever again but I would never allow my loved ones to ride on them.

You can not run a ski mountain on a shoestring. And btw 10-15 million in the bank is a shoestring when it comes to running a ski mountain. All under the guise of being “old school”

ill give them credit in one regard though they are marketing geniuses.

Lets hope this situation is rectified and that none of the doe eyed “ Magic faithful” end up seriously injured or worse in their blind pursuit of “soul”


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## zoomzoom (Dec 30, 2021)

jfc, a chair struck a tower and fell off the line?  this means the required 15 degrees of swing clearance was exceeded, this is a huge operational error.  did the grip come off the hanger, or the grip ripped from the rope.  of course that grip and carrier must be destroyed because they both saw forces for which they were not designed.  the former was tweaked being ripped off the rope, the latter when the carrier struck the ground.  that rope section must be marked and inspected by a qualified wire rope inspector who will look for broken and displaced wires.  finally, the tower needs to be inspected also. did the grip get entangled with a pair section, some guidage, or what.  riblet clips are well known for coming out of the rope when striking a tower, but never a grip of usual design.    

it's time for the lift inspector to man up and order a "stand down" on the red lift until the lift is proven to be safe in loaded and unloaded conditions, lift operators are given authority to slow or stop loading a lift as conditions warrant, lift mechanics are trained to recognize and respond to unusual situations, and whoever was running the lift is kicked in the balls.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 30, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Oh no I brought Hugh back. Sorry


If he isn't going to say what authority he's basing his leaks off of, I just assume he's practicing lift astrology - say something vague enough to be smug about later, regardless. 

I also don't know jack about lifts - certainly not enough to meaningfully contribute to our online forensic engineering effort beyond "well, fuck. That sounds bad."


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## PAabe (Dec 30, 2021)

From an outsider POV, someone who has not yet skied at Magic, you can't really say that magic being shoestring and non corporate is to blame, chairs falling off, while totally unsafe and scary, is not unheard of.  For example Camelback is one of the most corporate places around, you may recall they had a loaded chair fall off last year after the lift was bouncing severely in that spot *all day*, right in front of the unload terminal.  Camelback had a different loaded chair falling off incident just several years ago as well, and I think Blue had an unloaded chair fall off a few years ago also. I also recall hearing about an unloaded chair swinging in the wind hitting, a tower, and falling off recently as well not sure where that was.

The unloaded chairs have far less mass keeping them vertical than a loaded chair, even with just 1 person it, so from the sound of it, yes reckless and awful for the mechanical components of the lift, but were the loaded chairs really in severe danger of hitting the towers (I don't know this is a genuine question)?


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 30, 2021)

I was there. 25 feet before tower 19. Over the steep ledge. With the surging, very quickly, about 5 returning chairs started to sway side to side. Chair 1 gave tower 19 a solid hit and popped off the rope. The entire chair looked intact, the rope section looked visually fine once we started moving. I don't think armchair quarterbacking and speculation is needed. The lift inspector does not need to "man up". He is a pro and, along with Pfister and others, will figure out next steps as warranted. I am an engineer and have done forensic work on incidents. It's a calm cool assessment, determination of root causes, and remediation.


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## Zermatt (Dec 30, 2021)

There are people on this forum that think a chair falling off the cable is fine.


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2021)

PAabe said:


> but were the loaded chairs really in severe danger of hitting the towers (I don't know this is a genuine question)?


I didn't see any and was on the lift both days.
on Wed when it started surging they ran it at super low speed to get everyone off of the lift.

today it was almost like they ignored it, slowed it down a little bit and just kept it going. 

  everyone up top was looking at the chairs swinging around the bull wheel wildly.  Patrol included.


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## PAabe (Dec 30, 2021)

Zermatt said:


> There are people on this forum that think a chair falling off the cable is fine.


The odds of me getting killed by somebody highballing it down the ski hill, slipping into a tree, or of me dying in a car accident on the way to the hill are far higher than the odds of my dying falling off a chairlift


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## IceEidolon (Dec 30, 2021)

Also, we don't have the full picture yet. We don't know who was making the call to stay running, we don't know for sure why the drive was surging, we don't have enough facts to make any kind of informed call right now. Based on communication and gut feeling and observation as the Pfister crew, the drive guy, the state inspector, and the ops crew get this problem diagnosed and the damage repaired, maybe this board will come to a consensus. I've felt totally safe riding one lift listed above that dropped chairs, and another lift not listed had emergency preemptive repairs but I have avoided it since on suspicion. (Depress towers below mid unload, Canaan Valley, there's welded sections on the side of the tower.)


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 30, 2021)

Hey at least ya got some Gnar before the rollback lol !


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## Keelhauled (Dec 30, 2021)

PAabe said:


> The odds of me getting killed by somebody highballing it down the ski hill, slipping into a tree, or of me dying in a car accident on the way to the hill are far higher than the odds of my dying falling off a chairlift


Funny you mention dying, since the last lift fatality in the US was from an identical problem a few years ago in Colorado--new drive on old motor, lift surged, woman fell from bouncing chair.  I like Magic as much as anyone, and I have a lot of respect for folks trying to make a capital intensive business work--I know exactly what it's like--but safety issues like this are no joke.  There must have been a serious breakdown in protocol/communication somewhere to run the lift in that state for five minutes or more with no one apparently comfortable having the authority to make the call to shut it down.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 30, 2021)

My girlfriend and I watched it surging and were like no way in hell we’re getting on that lift right now. The one summit run we had was great though. Hopefully this doesn’t turn into a larger issue leading to prolonged lack of summit access.


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## skithetrees (Dec 30, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I didn't see any and was on the lift both days.
> on Wed when it started surging they ran it at super low speed to get everyone off of the lift.
> 
> today it was almost like they ignored it, slowed it down a little bit and just kept it going.
> ...


And this is why I am pissed. It’s like they said fuck the solution and safety. The lift equivalent of “hold my beer”?


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## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2021)

zoomzoom said:


> jfc, a chair struck a tower and fell off the line?  this means the required 15 degrees of swing clearance was exceeded, this is a huge operational error.  did the grip come off the hanger, or the grip ripped from the rope.  of course that grip and carrier must be destroyed because they both saw forces for which they were not designed.  the former was tweaked being ripped off the rope, the latter when the carrier struck the ground.  that rope section must be marked and inspected by a qualified wire rope inspector who will look for broken and displaced wires.  finally, the tower needs to be inspected also. did the grip get entangled with a pair section, some guidage, or what.  riblet clips are well known for coming out of the rope when striking a tower, but never a grip of usual design.
> 
> it's time for the lift inspector to man up and order a "stand down" on the red lift until the lift is proven to be safe in loaded and unloaded conditions, lift operators are given authority to slow or stop loading a lift as conditions warrant, lift mechanics are trained to recognize and respond to unusual situations, and whoever was running the lift is kicked in the balls.



There is no need for anyone to "man up". This incident is an immediate stand down on that lift until the investigation is complete. In my state if that had happened (VT is likely the same) the inspector does not even have the authority on their own to declare the lift safe. The report is reviewed by the full board in emergency session prior to declaring the lift operational again.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 30, 2021)

vt is not the same, and i'm not talking about a simple red tag order on a lift.


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## Newpylong (Dec 31, 2021)

Well that would be the first time VT is not as strict as NH for pretty much anything...


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## Bosco DaSkia (Dec 31, 2021)

Hugh Conway can _not_ be defeated!!!!!


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## ss20 (Dec 31, 2021)

Very sad.  Put me in the camp that says the lift should not have been spinning with a surging drive.  As others have said surging drives have been the cause for a number of recent chairlift accidents/fatalities.


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## Newpylong (Dec 31, 2021)

Eh, no one can defend the decision or indecision on that one... not even the most faithful. Either we don't know the entire story or at they're down two operators and a reputation hit.

Cue Deepthroat...


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

The red Chair has been on life support for 30 years. After hanging unmaintained during bankruptcy for most of the 90s it went on to be patched for the next 20 years by previous owners. These things have a lifespan even when well maintained and I would say 50 years in that case is when a lift needs to be replaced.

how many 50 year plus lifts are still in operation in the country ? I bet I could count them on one hand.

the old black lift never should have been run after they hung the defective yan chairs on it in the 80s. Not only did yan go bankrupt because of their defective grips but those triples were far to heavy for those frail towers And needed to be spaced farther apart because of it.

none of that was the responsibility of the current ownership but when they decided to take control they should have made sure they were well capitalized to come in and install either Brand new lifts or quality reinstalls instead they hobbled along barely running the black lift and dealing with constant breakdowns of the red lift.

and now look where they are...

the new black lift should have had Dopplemeyer on sit for the reinstall and none of the engineering issues would have occurred but better yet they should have just found an extra 2million and installed a new fixed grip Poma as killington did at north ridge and be done with it. By the time that bargain basement 1million dollar used lift is done I bet the final costs will be in line with a brand new install.

The red lift is done. As “iconic“ as they say it might be and as much as they try to say that old lifts add to the “charm“ of “ the road less travelled“ as well as their thin  argument that the old slow lifts drop less people on the trails the fact is that these lifts are one accident away from the mountain going belly up.

bring in Dopplemeyer to finish the black and in the process rip out the red lift and install a new fixed grip quad and be done with it. While still maintaining “the old school” cred that is seemingly so important to their identity.

there is a TON of money out there and I’m sure they could find willing investors that would bank on a Magic Mountain that had reliable lifts and infrastructure to be a viable investment for years to come. As it stand right now magic is one lift failure from insolvency.

I love the place with all my heart and I wish it all the best but until they get the lift situation in order I’ll be staying far away.


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## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> The red Chair has been on life support for 30 years. After hanging unmaintained during bankruptcy for most of the 90s it went on to be patched for the next 20 years by previous owners. These things have a lifespan even when well maintained and I would say 50 years in that case is when a lift needs to be replaced.
> 
> how many 50 year plus lifts are still in operation in the country ? I bet I could count them on one hand.


You'd lose that bet. There's over a dozen in VT alone that are 50+ years at this point.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I’m not sure what the number is but I’d bet the majority of them are well maintained. And I’m sure everyone of the owners of those lifts are losing sleep and are planninning a replacement imminently. 

these things were not designed to run for 50-75 years. They are under constant strain and stress as well as the harsh elements.

skiing is extremely important to me but not worth risking my or my loved one life for.


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## NYDB (Dec 31, 2021)

mmqbing this it's easy to say year 1 they should have ripped out black and put in a replacement.  But I guess that wasn't in the capital budget.  I think they wasted 100+k  on black before they decided to replace.   They have to be losing a ton of $ this week.  In addition to the money they are losing with black sitting there not working and all the additional work needing to be done on it.  

it's only 2 million for a new fixed grip quad?  that's 200k for a group of 10 investors who are purported to be well capitalized.  It would seem like it should have been part of the initial plan maybe.  But that's easy to say now.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I think 3-4 million. Guarantee after all is said and done black will have cost 2-3. And what they’ll have is a 30 plus year old lift that will need replacement in 15years. It would have been worth it and they wouldn’t have found themselves in this position.

listen i could have bought magic and many others could have as well. But it’s having SUBSTANTIAL cash on hand and SUBSTANTIAL lines of credit to deal with the inevitable situations that will arise.

the original buyer from Pennsylvania out of bankruptcy bought the place at auction for 300k but he didn’t have a pot to piss in for anything else the next 10 years. And the rest of subsequent owners LLCS etc weren’t in much better shape.

i had high hopes that the new group had substantial assets to hit the ground running. And by that I mean 50 million minimum either in cash or lines of credit. It’s clear they don’t.


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## slatham (Dec 31, 2021)

I believe the new Valley House FGQ at Sugarbush was $3mm. With Black costing $900k I believe, thats a long way from $3mm. As I understand it, Doppelmayr and the other big, global lift companies will not do installs of older, non brand lifts. Bit of a pickle.

As far as old lifts, there are 3 within sight of Magic that are older or circa same vintage......

I think the real issue IMHO and not being there, is operator error. When the lifts surges, you slow it down and offload. 

And if it were to take $50mm to buy and upgrade Magic, then its NELSAP. No return on that level of investment IMHO.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

1 million plus install, helicopters,reengineering and everything else. Bet the final tally will be close to 2 million and you’re left with an old lift. Would have been worth it.

I have heard that they will oversee a reinstall if it’s in conjunction with a replacement/ new lift elsewhere on site.

I meant 50 million in assets and access to loans. They needed initially 15 -20 million for all lift replacements and upgrade to snowmaking and other infrastructure in one fell swoop and the rest in case of emergency or expansions etc. 50 million is not a lot of money when it comes to buying, upgrading and running a major facility such as a ski mountain.


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## NYDB (Dec 31, 2021)

yeah 50 mil is stupid for Magic unless there is major real estate development involved


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

And btw I’ve been on older lifts in the area that were properly maintained. And even then I never felt totally safe.

I don’t go on them any longer. There is no reason to when most lifts of a Certain age have been replaced by now.


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## PAabe (Dec 31, 2021)

Give the people a break,  see how the situation turns out. As stated if the current group was not operating the hill it would be NELSAP.  Plenty of areas operating on a shoestring budget with lifts just as old, at least they have a backup being installed which can't be said for many areas that are unfortunately probably gone when their lifts eventually kick the bucket


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

50 million is not a lot of money in 2021. Especially when running a massive infrastructure such as a ski mountain across a dozen investors. 

and Again I’m talking about access to capital. So that when two Of your three decades old lifts aren’t running and you can’t open the mountain for summit skiing one season you can call dopplemeyer and say I need to lifts stat !

this is not a corner deli. Employees, the town, the homeowners and the restaraunts etc are all dependent on having a viable and dependable major  business to be functional.

i was really hoping that this group would finally be the one to put all magics troubles in the past. It seems like just a continuation of the same thing we’ve been dealing with for 25 years.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I’ve been giving them a break for 25 years.

Im done.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2021)

I'd ballpark $5m to get a brand new quad on black line, versus at the time estimated $1.75m and actual $2.5m to put up Black as they're doing it.

The other capital has to go into snowmaking, the main lodge, summer facilities, etc. Given that Magic wasn't bought by Perfect North and $10m isn't being spent in the first year, I can absolutely see why saving $3m now is more important than paying more for an overhaul ten or twenty years down the line.


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## ne_skier (Dec 31, 2021)

I am also in the camp that the lift should not have been running at that time. However, the notion that Red and any other old lift need to be replaced and are “unsafe” is untrue. It is mostly an electrics issue and has nothing to do with the structural integrity of the lift. A 50 year old lift is not rare in the east. Sun and East Meadow at Bromley were built in 1974; Plaza at Bromley was built in 1965, Tamarack at Stratton was built in 1976. All of the doubles at Smugglers Notch were built in the 60s and 70s. I learned to ski on a double chair built in 1966 that is still running strong. This is completely ignoring the Midwest, who’s lift fleets are made up largely of 50 year old Hall and Borvig lifts, many of which are maintained worse than Red. I understand that some may have irrational fears concerning old lifts, I have many irrational fears myself. I’m still wary of trams after the Stresa-Mottarone accident in Italy last summer. But Magic is not an irresponsible mountain for not catering to your irrational fears, and Red is not a “dangerous” lift because of this accident. They are already stuck penny pinching to get Black installed, the last thing they need is to dig themselves in an unnecessary hole with a Red replacement.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

And all their time is almost up. like I said I’m sure owners even of the well maintained antique lifts have sleepless nights wondering when disaster will strike and take the whole mountain down with it.

Like a bridge it all works fine until it collapses and most of the time you don’t even know that the underlying structural stresses etc are occurring until it’s too late. There is a reason the well capitalized mountains have replaces 99% of their aging lifts. And that is LIABILITY 

my life is not worth a cheap pass. YMMV


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## zoomzoom (Dec 31, 2021)

a bit off-topic but wondering about "that tower on the Black" that folks are discussing, am reading a crane is necessary for the install.  is a tower needing to be stood up, or sheave trains installed?  tx.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> There is a reason the well capitalized mountains have replaces 99% of their aging lifts.



Yeah, It generates marketing buzz, sells passes and brings people to the mountains because they're attracted to fancy new detachable lifts.


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## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> I have heard that they will oversee a reinstall if it’s in conjunction with a replacement/ new lift elsewhere on site.



So you think that Magic's current owners should have had Dopp do what exactly? Install a brand new lift to replace Red just so they could get them to do the Black reinstall?



Old man of the mountain said:


> And btw I’ve been on older lifts in the area that were properly maintained. And even then I never felt totally safe.
> 
> I don’t go on them any longer. There is no reason to when most lifts of a Certain age have been replaced by now.


I've ridden many older fixed grip lifts and can't ever recall feeling unsafe. A lot of older lifts were also replaced over the years for capacity reasons, not necessarily simply because they were "old".



Old man of the mountain said:


> And all their time is almost up. like I said I’m sure owners even of the well maintained antique lifts have sleepless nights wondering when disaster will strike and take the whole mountain down with it.


I somehow doubt that. Do they have a plan for replacement or rebuilding in mind? I'm sure they do. But if the owners were genuinely losing sleep over the age of their lifts, then they'd already be acting on those plans.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see over 100 lifts in the US that are 50+ years old. There's over 30 in New England alone (and that doesn't include ones that were moved and reinstalled as a used lift).  Old lifts are not uncommon at all. I'd be more worried about areas with 30 year old detachable lifts than I would be about 50 year old fixed grips.

Look...no one here is defending Magic in this latest issue. I'm sure we'd all love a detailed explanation on exactly what happened. It very much from what has been said sounds like a rather significant operator error in not stopping/slowing the lift when it started surging as someone else already mentioned. If the lift had been slowed/stopped when it started surging, we wouldn't be having these discussions about how "unsafe" it is. We'd simply be having a discussion on the drive needing more tuning and tweaking. There's a lot of decisions that are easy to look back on in hindsight and say there were better ways, but the simple fact is that NO ONE could have predicted ALL the issues they ran into.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

And keeps their clientele safe and saves them from massive lawsuits resulting in their bankrupsty 

would you fly on a 50 year old commercial jet with questionable or unknown maintenance record ?

people like to keep themselves and their family safe..

most mountains have at least one lift as an option to the top for those who don’t have a death wish.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

Ya know what I think ? I think you shouldn’t buy a ski mountain if you can’t maintain it properly and upgrade it when necessary.

that’s what I think.

somebody could have died yesterday and that is directly tied to the fact that the shaft/drive issue was not detected except by accident. And then was subsequently rushed into use TWICE in two days before almost ending in disaster. 

if they had newer well maintained option to the top that never would have happened.

if you cannot maintain a safe and dependable ski operation don’t get into the business.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> would you fly on a 50 year old commercial jet with questionable or unknown maintenance record ?


No, but airline safety is heavily regulated as is lift safety in VT and most other areas.  I feel fine flying just as I do riding Red (when it's not surging and bouncing chairs)


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## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> would you fly on a 50 year old commercial jet with questionable or unknown maintenance record ?


I don't know what the age of commercial jets has to do with the age of fixed grip lifts. These are two VASTLY different things with different life expectancies.

Personally I don't even like flying on a 1 year old commercial jet.


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## skithetrees (Dec 31, 2021)

I have no concerns about the safety of the red chair.  The issue yesterday was directly a result of improper operation. The surging from the new drive was not unexpected. The failure to recognize and address that problem promptly is what led to the failure. That is why I am frustrated and concerned. 

The idea of spending 50$ million on magic is a great way to lose at least 35$ million.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

The surging has a direct link back to maintenance or lack there of because it wasn’t noticed if not for the haul rope emergency replacement which also wasn’t noticed till the last minute causing them to scramble to get it running for the holiday! 

none of this would have happened if 

A. They had a reliable second lift to the summit

B. The red lift was properly maintained and inspected constantly as any 52 year lift should be on a constant basis.

again don’t buy a ski mountain if you don’t have a substantial amount of capital to throw at the inevitable emergencies that arise


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I’m not saying invest 50 million in one fell swoop. I’m say have it on hand or access to it.

otherwise open up a restaraunt..


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## icecoast1 (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> The surging has a direct link back to maintenance or lack there of because it wasn’t noticed if not for the haul rope emergency replacement which also wasn’t noticed till the last minute causing them to scramble to get it running for the holiday!


It is a NEW drive.   How exactly were they supposed to notice that prior to the install?  You're worse than Hugh Conway...


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## ThatGuy (Dec 31, 2021)

Theres no question whether Red should’ve stopped running or not. You could see the chairs swinging from the parking lot yet they continued to run for a good amount of time before shutting down. The question is whether the order to keep it going was an in the moment operator call or one from higher up. Hopefully the coming update is transparent in what transpired. Wish I took a video because they were swinging pretty intensely and if I were on the chair I would have been worried for my safety (not an engineer so maybe it wasn’t as dangerous as it seemed).


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## skiur (Dec 31, 2021)

icecoast1 said:


> It is a NEW drive.   How exactly were they supposed to notice that prior to the install?  You're worse than Hugh Conway...



Maybe he is Hugh, joined yesterday!


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## skithetrees (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> The surging has a direct link back to maintenance or lack there of because it wasn’t noticed if not for the haul rope emergency replacement which also wasn’t noticed till the last minute causing them to scramble to get it running for the holiday!
> 
> none of this would have happened if
> 
> ...


Surging was directly related to the new drive. The electronics in the drive need to be tuned to the application. The drive senses load, sends appropriate power to the motor. If it’s running too slow, it sends more power. Then if it runs too fast, it sends less. However, if responds too fast, slow, or ramps up/down power too much, you get surging. Basic undergrad engineering. These things would typically come with a preloaded map that may need to be adjusted when installed.


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## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

skiur said:


> Maybe he is Hugh, joined yesterday!


Hugh's evil twin!


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

It’s a new DRIVE because it was found to be worn out by accident when the haul rope was discovered at the last minute to be in need of replacement ! These are things that should not be surprises where they find themselves to be scambling to get this work done in a rushed fashion imperiling peoples safety !
what don’t you understand about that ?


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## skithetrees (Dec 31, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Theres no question whether Red should’ve stopped running or not. You could see the chairs swinging from the parking lot yet they continued to run for a good amount of time before shutting down. The question is whether the order to keep it going was an in the moment operator call or one from higher up. Hopefully the coming update is transparent in what transpired. Wish I took a video because they were swinging pretty intensely and if I were on the chair I would have been worried for my safety (not an engineer so maybe it wasn’t as dangerous as it seemed).


Precisely why I am pissed. They kept running as chairs were coming around the top bull wheel and nearly hitting the first downhill tower. Chairs between the final towers were bouncing probably close to five feet. I got off the lift and told ski patrol and the top lift attendant to slow it down. I was met with confusion and no response. That’s concerning.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I’m not Hugh but I respect him a lot more for speaking up then the magic cult apologists who think magic can do no wrong !


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## Newpylong (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> The surging has a direct link back to maintenance or lack there of because it wasn’t noticed if not for the haul rope emergency replacement which also wasn’t noticed till the last minute causing them to scramble to get it running for the holiday!
> 
> none of this would have happened if
> 
> ...



Sorry, this along with most of your other comments regading this and other Magic issues in this thread are baloney and not worth addressing because they are so far from reality.

Concerns with lift safety? Absolutely, but don't pretend to know how to operate a mountain when clearly you just have ideas how to spend someone else's money.


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## skithetrees (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> It’s a new DRIVE because it was found to be worn out by accident when the haul rope was discovered at the last minute to be in need of replacement ! These are things that should not be surprises where they find themselves to be scambling to get this work done in a rushed fashion imperiling peoples safety !
> what don’t you understand about that ?


I will give you this. None of these things should have been a surprise.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

Exactly. But the new drive and shaft and haul rope were not discovered to be in need of replacement until the last minute

this is where ONGOING preventative maintenance is critical especially when sealing with lifts dating back to the infancy of skiing in America


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I’ve been riding the red lift since 1972 and I’ve watched the mountain from that period through mega magic through bankruptcy and through the parade of idiots that have run it since 1996.

and do you think this investment group had any idea what they were doing when they took it on ? They didn’t and they’d admit that.

that said I think Geoff is a good man with good intentions 

just not enough capital to do it properly.

one more season like this and they’re done


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## ne_skier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> I’m not Hugh but I respect him a lot more for speaking up then the magic cult apologists who think magic can do no wrong !


every single person on this forum believes that improper operation is at fault for what happened yesterday. Suggesting that red does not need to be replaced and that old lifts are not inherently death traps is not being a “cult apologist”. There is no need for your armchair quarterbacking here.


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## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> Exactly. But the new drive and shaft and haul rope were not discovered to be in need of replacement until the last minute
> 
> this is where ONGOING preventative maintenance is critical especially when sealing with lifts dating back to the infancy of skiing in America


Infancy of skiing in America? There were literally hundreds of lifts installed before Red. The first chairlift in America was installed 35 years before Red.

Again, being old has nothing to do with the issue yesterday. A surging drive can happen in any new drive installation regardless of lift age. The major issue is that it wasn't stopped immediately when it happened from the reports we've seen from people that were there.

At least Hugh posts somewhat accurate (if a bit vague at times) information. Your posts are just filled with made up stuff you seemed to have pulled out of nowhere.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I consider the 60s the infancy of modern skiing in America. The original blue/black  lift was installed in 1961 as a REINSTALL AND RED FOLLOWED 10 years later. Prior to the wave of mountains opening in the early 60s most mountains were small rope tow operations 

so yes I consider the sixties into the early70s as the infancy of modern skiing and lifts in America


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## PAabe (Dec 31, 2021)

Oldest 2 lifts in the world from sun valley still operating at Mt. Eyak and Boyne.  30s being the infancy of skiing.  There are and handful from the 40s and 50s still around, dozens and dozens from the 60s, Red is from the 70s which isn't even super old compared to some


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

Aspen was 1947 

sun valley maybe earlier 

but skiing popularity and lift technology didn’t take off in any substantial way until the 60s 

that is when the industry boomed.


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

And btw cd skier being old has EVERYTHING to do with EVERY issue that has occurred with magics lifts for the last 25 years.

but Also to do with maintenance.

and also metal stresses, parts break down etc. 

nothing is built to last forever. So I have to ask what information do you have that lifts were built to run in perpetuity ?


----------



## PAabe (Dec 31, 2021)

Sunlight Colorado has Aspen's original lifts


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

And I’m sure sunlight rigidly maintains them Like mad rivers single which they sunk millions into.

Red lift has been neglected since the mountain went bankrupt 30 years ago.

if they are dead set on keeping it as some sort of “legacy” chair maybe they should sink one to 2 million into it.
until then I wouldn’t get on that thing again if you put a gun to my head


----------



## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

Sun Valley was 1936. The east's first chair was at Gunstock in 1937. The first chair at Stowe was installed in 1940. MRG 1948.

We apparently have different definitions of "infancy". I'd consider those early years the infancy of skiing. By the time you hit the 70s (when Red was originally installed), you're well into the upswing in popularity and "booming" so really hard for me to consider that still the "infancy" phase.



Old man of the mountain said:


> And btw cd skier being old has EVERYTHING to do with EVERY issue that has occurred with magics lifts for the last 25 years.


What exactly do you consider old then? If the issues for the last 25 years are all caused by age, then 25 years ago Red was only 25 years old. Do you consider that "old" for a fixed grip lift?



Old man of the mountain said:


> but Also to do with maintenance.


This is much more of an issue rather than age itself. 



Old man of the mountain said:


> and also metal stresses, parts break down etc.
> 
> nothing is built to last forever. So I have to ask what information do you have that lifts were built to run in perpetuity ?


I agree. But I never said anything about a lift running forever. If the towers and foundations themselves are sound, then replacing other key parts as needed can vastly extend the life expectancy of a lift. I'm sure that most of the other lifts that are 50+ years old have also had a substantial amount of components replaced over the years.


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

Magics red lift sat rotting and rusting from 91-97 basically during bankruptcy and was basically unmaintained until these guys took over. So reds age is like that of a 50 year old alcoholic that never took care of himself whereas mad rivers single is a 75 year old who never took a drink


----------



## zoomzoom (Dec 31, 2021)

hauling rope diameter and lay lengths are measured at multiple locations on an annual basis, and these results are typically compared to previous year's results in order to recognize trending and develop a plan to retire the rope.  ropes do lose diameter and lay lengths increase over time as a new rope settles during use, this is typical and expected.  modern ropes with poly cores separate the strands, thus eliminating inner strand nicking due to wire contact as the rope "bends" around the drive and return sheaves.  this is opposed to hemp cores previously in service, "core collapse" wasn't uncommon back then.  with proper maintenance these new ropes will last decades unless subjected to physical damage i.e. from faulty rigging, lightning strikes, sliding grips, deropements, or bullet damage.  no one likes surprises, especially an unplanned haul rope replacement.  this is because after spending 10's of thousands of dollars, there is no appreciable/noticeable customer benefit.


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 31, 2021)

If you thought Hugh was bad get ready for OldFartoftheMountain


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> The original blue/black  lift was installed in 1961 as a REINSTALL AND RED FOLLOWED 10 years later.


Blue was installed in 1962 and was not a reinstall. It was made by a German brand (Pohlig) which merged and went out of business soon after. Pretty much from the start there was zero spare parts supply, hence its wonky modifications. It was then rightly removed when the opportunity came up to replace it. Red was made by Heron, a major US brand at the time. The only modification to it was Tower 18A and spare parts are still around for Heron lifts. Several operate out west and parts can be remanufactured. 
Not at all sure what connection you’re making here or where you are getting these facts from. If you’re looking for reliable lift info sources feel free to ask.


Old man of the mountain said:


> until then I wouldn’t get on that thing again if you put a gun to my head


We aren’t trying to convince you to ride it. Feel free to live how you wish. I pity someone who is as picky about what lifts they ride as you are


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

Wrong. The towers at the very least were installed previously at another mountain. And later it was modified from the blue chairs to the yan chairs  in the 80s.

fact.

my knowledge of all of it goes back to a guy named Hans thornier have you heard of him ?


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> Wrong. The towers at the very least were installed previously at another mountain.


Do you have any proof of this? I have gotten my information from multiple sites (chairlift.org, newenglandskihistory.com, liftblog.com, skilifts.org, etc). Regardless unless there were problems with the structural integrity of the towers which I am not aware of (Black’s issues were mostly mechanical if I recall correctly) it wouldn’t have affected it. Also not sure where those towers would have even come from as they are unlike anything else installed in North America. If they are Pohlig towers which I assume they are, they certainly did not come from anywhere in America.


Old man of the mountain said:


> my knowledge of all of it goes back to a guy named Hans thornier have you heard of him ?


Assuming that you’re referring to Hans Thorner, yes I obviously have. If he personally told you that Blue/Black’s towers came from another mountain, that’s great. If that was an empty jab and you don’t have a reliable source for that bit of info I’m afraid I’m going to have to ignore it for now.
Again, Black was an unreliable lift for multiple unique reasons. It was removed as soon as the opportunity came up to buy a new lift at an affordable price. What does this have to do with Red?


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

It is possible that it was the green beginner lift that was the reinstall but one of them was. That matters not. And for the record yes my family knew Hans very well from the mid sixties on. 

i have deep connections to magic and the area. I have lived that mountain from the great peaks of success to lowest of the lows. 

but the moral of the story here is that this current ownership has been an utter disappointment from what was promised in the beginning and I just thank god I am no longer part of the chaos that continues to plaque them.

that said I wish them no I’ll will and hope for their success.

but lets Be honest the place is cursed…


----------



## skiur (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> It is possible that it was the green beginner lift that was the reinstall but one of them was. That matters not. And for the record yes my family knew Hans very well from the mid sixties on.
> 
> i have deep connections to magic and the area. I have lived that mountain from the great peaks of success to lowest of the lows.
> 
> ...



Sure seems like you wish them ill will.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2021)

Any takers on if any previous owner would have opened anything besides the tube hill so far this year?


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 31, 2021)

Pretty sure that the previous owners didn’t even start snowmaking until January of their last season operating


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I don’t. I learned to ski there and have over 50 years of memories there.

Yesterday was a horror show and I fear there is more to come without substantial investment in infrastructure.

if I or one of my friends or loved ones was on that lift yesterday I would be beyond apoplectic.

im done. Y’all can go back to not caring. i hope the next time I post here it’s not because of a tragedy.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 31, 2021)

another fun afternoon lapping green with my kids.  warm n slushy.  limited terrain for sure but my we all had a great time.  

Hoping red is ready to spin when more terrain becomes available.


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> im done. Y’all can go back to not caring. i hope the next time I post here it’s not because of a tragedy.


Maybe post some sources on all your accusations next time or don’t bother posting at all.


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

What accusations ? And the sources of everything I’ve said have been my eyes and ears and the original ownership as well as subsequent “ownerships“ 

I’ve lived magic mountain since I was an infant and my family before I was born.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 31, 2021)

MRGs single was totally replaced in 2007 after nearly 60 years of service Addled Troll of the Mountain.


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

How long have you been skiing Magic pal ? Do you live on mountain and for how long ? Are you an investor in real estate or the mountain ?


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

The single was not “replaced” it was overhauled and as I suggested if magic wanted the red chair to be a ”legacy chair” (which I don’t think is warranted as the only thing that makes it unique is it’s red paint) they too should invest 2 million and make it safe for their customers or else tear the piece of shit down.


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 31, 2021)

You’re clearly the only person here who thinks the lift is unsafe as a whole and you’ve stated like 5 times that you absolutely will not ski at Magic anymore. I think we’re fine for a few more years.


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## jaytrem (Dec 31, 2021)

I'd love to see a chart of the age of lifts they've had an accident.  Seems kinda random.  Got new ones like this...









						Gondola Accident On Brand New Lift In Austria Today
					

A frightening incident unfolded this morning in Kaltenbach, Austria. Several 10-passenger gondolas on the”Wimbachexpress” at Hochzillertal got hung up on a tower and collided into one a…




					unofficialnetworks.com
				




and Sunshine's Gondola.  Then you have middle aged ones like Camelback, Blackcomb and Granby.  Then you've got older ones like Magic and Sugarloaf.  Odds of death are pretty slim on all of them.  Not so sure age has a lot to do with those odds though.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 31, 2021)

Obvious troll is obvious.



Old man of the mountain said:


> What accusations ? And the sources of everything I’ve said have been my eyes and ears and the original ownership as well as subsequent “ownerships“
> 
> I’ve lived magic mountain since I was an infant and my family before I was born.


do you have that house on lmc? 

that house is sick.  probably the premier spot in all of the east coast mountains I have seen.

if you want to sell it send me a pm


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## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

I’m not saying that the red lift is inherently unsafe and walking across the street can get you killed.

but decades of lack of maintenance on anything, plane, train, roof, bridge or whatever is going to greatly increase the odds of an accident occurring.

life is dangerous to quote a wise man. But I’d never forgive myself if I or a loved one had a choice to go to a mountain with a good track record of maintenance and newer lifts but chose to go to some ramshackle mom and pop and died needlessly as could have easily happened yesterday.

im too old for that shit and I don’t want to die in a stupid and much more avoidable way. 

But you guys do you!


----------



## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> The single was not “replaced” it was overhauled and as I suggested if magic wanted the red chair to be a ”legacy chair” (which I don’t think is warranted as the only thing that makes it unique is it’s red paint) they too should invest 2 million and make it safe for their customers or else tear the piece of shit down.



If you want to be technical, what Dopp did for the MRG single they called a "rebuild". It wasn't a simple overhaul by any means. The only things re-used from the original MRG lift were the towers themselves (after being removed, sandblasted, repainted, and reinstalled on new foundations) and the top terminal for the most part. For all intents and purposes, that lift was basically replaced. They paid more to have it rebuilt than the quotes they received to install a brand new chair instead. But it was an inconic lift so it is understandable at least why they voted to do that.  (It was $1.5M that MRG paid Dopp btw...although today that same project would easily be over $2M)


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2021)

Deferred maintenance definitely made the new drive surge and knock the chair off the new haul rope. Definitely the deferred maintenance and not the brand new drive not being dialed in correctly by one of the contractors, made worse by somebody - how far up the chain or which chain we don't yet know - deciding not to slow down or stop the lift.


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

No I left before current ownership took over.

best decision I ever made.

living at magic post bankruptcy was to say the least torture.

this season seems to be continuing that tradition


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

Jay trem my father made the point to me many years ago that he was roped down from the Ursa lift at Stratton the year it was installed after having complained about the condition of magics lifters in the late 90s.
but I’ll tell ya what I’d rather be roped down at Stratton on a brand new lift than catapulted into a ravine on a 50 year old lift that I knew to be unmaintained at that time.


----------



## skithetrees (Dec 31, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Obvious troll is obvious.
> 
> 
> do you have that house on lmc?
> ...


Me first, lol


----------



## Old man of the mountain (Dec 31, 2021)

That was not our house but we’re good friends with the former owner of 50 years.

the place I have now blows that out of the water location wise


----------



## NYDB (Dec 31, 2021)

Old man of the mountain said:


> That was not our house but we’re good friends with the former owner of 50 years.
> 
> the place I have now blows that out of the water location wise


Cimarron or Yellowstone club?  

maybe moonlight basin if you are struggling.


----------



## johnl87 (Dec 31, 2021)

for what it's worth, when magic was liquidated in the 1990s, the red and black chairs were left there because they were too far gone for resale.  how the state allowed that black chair to run again is beyond me.

the two hall two place chairs and the poma three place chair were still in good shape and were sold and are still running today.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2021)

Having a vault drive, being from a less prominent manufacturer, and having hard to access towers for removal helped save Red, too.

Old black, yeah, mostly valuable as porch swings and culverts - especially with basically every company that had worked on it out of business.


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## slatham (Dec 31, 2021)

johnl87 said:


> for what it's worth, when magic was liquidated in the 1990s, the red and black chairs were left there because they were too far gone for resale.  how the state allowed that black chair to run again is beyond me.
> 
> the two hall two place chairs and the poma three place chair were still in good shape and were sold and are still running today.


 No. “Too far gone” for Red is a complete mischaracterization. The cost to buy, and more to the point, disassemble Red, and then reinstall, would have been a poor investment vs a new lift for the buyer. Especially at a time where lifts of that length+vertical being installed had much more capacity. 

The other lifts were not only newer but much easier to get off Mountian and installed elsewhere.

Not sure the motives of Old Crotchedy Man but since he’s left Magic I suggest he do the same on AZ.


----------



## foofy (Dec 31, 2021)

slatham said:


> No. “Too far gone” for Red is a complete mischaracterization. The cost to buy, and more to the point, disassemble Red, and then reinstall, would have been a poor investment vs a new lift for the buyer. Especially at a time where lifts of that length+vertical being installed had much more capacity.
> 
> The other lifts were not only newer but much easier to get off Mountian and installed elsewhere.
> 
> Not sure the motives of Old Crotchedy Man but since he’s left Magic I suggest he do the same on AZ.


Cancel culture much?


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2021)

If general forum etiquette is cancel culture, sure. Better than 1% of a 5+ year old thread is him or responses to him, and it only took two days.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 1, 2022)

Where did these people come from on this thread all of a sudden?


----------



## AdironRider (Jan 1, 2022)

Maybe when Magic crosses a line from their bullshit just making everything take forever to their bullshit jeopardizing the safety of those who go there, moods change? 

Weird concept I know.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 1, 2022)

You may be on to something. We're used to folks (like yourself) perusing threads and taking a few random jabs here and there and departing. But it's been a Hugh(e) onslaught.


----------



## slatham (Jan 1, 2022)

Happy New Year. May Red run, Black run, and COVID run out!


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## ThatGuy (Jan 1, 2022)

Hugh stopped by the Carpet Lift and left a present


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## Old man of the mountain (Jan 1, 2022)

Mornin magicians!

what’s on the agenda today ?

maybe a few “laps on green” in the rain Before retiring to the “BLT“in your grateful dead themed magic merch for a little smug back slapping while noshing on one of “chef Becca’s“ delectable specials ?


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## ne_skier (Jan 1, 2022)

Decided to skip today. I see you are enjoying your AZ account quite a bit, you must really like talking to us. I know I’ve found these forums quite useful myself.


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## Old man of the mountain (Jan 1, 2022)

Actually I’m done. I came in here to voice my concerns in a serious manner and as is always the case with the magic cult apologists my concerns were dismissed.

And I apologize for my little troll above as that minimizes the importance of what I and many others are concerned and disappointed about. 

I wish you all a happy new year and most importantly a SAFE one.

Old man out !


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## Smellytele (Jan 1, 2022)

…and with that life moves on.


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## RH29 (Jan 1, 2022)

Haven't you already said "Old Man Out" at least twice? Yet you continue to come out and be an antagonistic asshat.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 1, 2022)

Don't feed the troll.


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 2, 2022)

Snow Report says Wand to Showoff will likely have snow made on them and opened for next weekend. I don’t know much about the work road situation, how does this impact Tower 13 access on Black (If at all)?


----------



## machski (Jan 2, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Snow Report says Wand to Showoff will likely have snow made on them and opened for next weekend. I don’t know much about the work road situation, how does this impact Tower 13 access on Black (If at all)?


At this point, I think you have to toss Black out of the picture again this season.  They need to figure out Red with the issues it is now having and whether it requires further repairs due to such.  With any luck, between now and when Red is up, it will snow (hopefully a lot) and I doubt they try to get heavy equipment up a work road if nature finally turns kind.


----------



## IceEidolon (Jan 2, 2022)

I figure Red doesn't need line work after the one chair is checked and back up, and Black doesn't need drive work. For a contractor with unlimited overtime in a vacuum, no problem - as is and from my warm house, 50/50 that it's done for President's Day, provided natural snow doesn't block access.


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## skithetrees (Jan 2, 2022)

Aren’t there track cranes specifically for this purpose?  What about something like this … https://www.smileyliftingsolutions....d_B9ssK4E2f1WJb0dVmyrJgIY4CSN3pMaAuzwEALw_wcB. 
Put it on a sled and drag it up with a cat. Seems like they are still waiting on parts though. Not optimistic it is going to happen this year.


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## slatham (Jan 2, 2022)

If I understand correctly, they need to install the full cross arm on #13. Thus they need a large crane like the one in Lot B. 

But I image this is not front of mind until Red is done.


----------



## skithetrees (Jan 2, 2022)

slatham said:


> If I understand correctly, they need to install the full cross arm on #13. Thus they need a large crane like the one in Lot B.
> 
> But I image this is not front of mind until Red is done.


Interesting. I wonder if full cross arm or just a modified sheave train assembly. Either way, those spider cranes should be able to lift. Agreed this is not getting touched until red is done. If parts are still in machining, hard to imagine how it gets done this year.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 2, 2022)

slatham said:


> But I image this is not front of mind until Red is done.


when is that expected to be?  I'm getting kinda worried with the radio silence regarding red lift status since Thursday. 
(unless I missed something on traditional social media which I'm not on)


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 2, 2022)

The silence is due to carefully figuring out a root cause(s). Then a remediation. I have strong nerves, but being in the middle of it, it was scary. I went up Red five times W and Th! Red ran so smooth the first time on Th.


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## ne_skier (Jan 2, 2022)

I could be wrong, but I believe Magic has the new sheaves ready to be installed for Black and that now it's just a matter of getting them up there once Red work is done. My impression is that towers 6 and 7 are at a low enough angle to drive the crane right up Hocus Pocus, and a work road is needed for tower 13, that being Wand -> UMC -> Wizard -> Broomstick.


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## skithetrees (Jan 2, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> I could be wrong, but I believe Magic has the new sheaves ready to be installed for Black and that now it's just a matter of getting them up there once Red work is done. My impression is that towers 6 and 7 are at a low enough angle to drive the crane right up Hocus Pocus, and a work road is needed for tower 13, that being Wand -> UMC -> Wizard -> Broomstick.


Latest update said parts were still being machined.


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## zoomzoom (Jan 2, 2022)

so is it  "full cross arm on #13" or "new sheaves ready to be installed for Black" ?

a full crossarm install would require a crane for sure.  if the crossarm is there, installing a sheave train (minus the sheaves of course!) using a 1 1/2T cable puller or coffing hoist is easy enough.  unless there's no gantry or provision to install an "A"- frame, then once again a crane is needed.


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Jan 2, 2022)

Random thoughts.

From what I gather, the line speed surging caused chairs to swing excessively going around the top bullwheel. Would similar swinging not have occurred at the bottom? That's just another aspect to the operator error issue.

I hope the root cause investigation will adress the operator issue(s) not just the engineering issues.

From a PR perspective it's fortunate for Magic that no video from the incident has surfaced. Obviously the most important thing in every sense is the fact that there were no injuries, but from how I read the various firsthand accounts here, I think it would look a lot worse for Magic if there were videos floating around.

That all said IMO there HAS to be at least a few ppl with video on their phones. (Not necessary forum members.) But I'm guessing they're being kind and not posting it.


----------



## slatham (Jan 3, 2022)

I am not expecting any communication on Red until either the situation is fully resolved, or its Wednesday.

The original work on Black were sheave trains, but I recall in one of the updates or social media posts Magic noting that for tower 13 they require a new cross bar. I could be completely wrong. In any event, I have not heard any update on the plan for Black since mid-Dec alpine update.


----------



## zoomzoom (Jan 3, 2022)

yes, line surge will result in carrier swing around both bullwheels.  think of line surge as excessive energy in the system that must be released somewhere.

it would be more noticeable at either station if the carrier guidage was in poor condition or mis-adjusted, however the walls at the loading station will mechanically correct excessive chair swing at that location.  of course, the big problem with line surge are the variations on vertical sheave loading.  the tension system on any ski-lift (either by counterweight or pneumatic/hydraulic means) is there to maintain constant tension in the hauling rope under varying loading condition.  however they cannot react quick enough to control fast inputs to the motor, and line surge is the result.

here's some pics found online from 2002.


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## ne_skier (Jan 3, 2022)

Some newer photos showing bullwheel guidage can be seen here: https://liftblog.com/red-magic-mountain-vt/


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## skithetrees (Jan 3, 2022)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Random thoughts.
> 
> From what I gather, the line speed surging caused chairs to swing excessively going around the top bullwheel. Would similar swinging not have occurred at the bottom? That's just another aspect to the operator error issue.
> 
> ...


The only issue as far as I can tell was a drive in need of calibration. My concern is that the running while surging created other non-software issues that will be harder to fix.

Re video, there certainly is as I saw people with phones out recording after I got off the lift.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 3, 2022)

i really f'ing hope they can have this shit sorted in the next ~month

i am not going to gripe or request a refund but my sunday pass will not go to use this season if there is no summit access and that would be a huge bummer. as of now i have reservations to stay at the blue gentian the weekend of feb 4-6 bc a friend wants to get wasted for the jamband coverband and i figured by February we should be ok

aside from wanting magic to succeed and enjoying the terrain so much, the southern vermont sundays option allows me to ski 20k feet and be home by 530 pm near NYC, and it would suck if stratton becomes the only option for that for me


----------



## ThatGuy (Jan 3, 2022)

1/3 Brief Update:

The snowmaking crew turned on the guns last night on Wand down to Show Off and will continue making snow today and tomorrow until temps warm on Wednesday.

The latest on Red Lift is that we have a team of contractors on it and eliminating areas where there could be an issue. Importantly, the motor checked out in great condition by the experts at Troy Motors. The new drive for the motor is being gone through meticulously by All Ski Lifts' Larry Wollum, the electric drive engineer. Pfister's crew has been systematically going through all the lift mechanicals to make sure shaft, couplings, planetary are 100% as well. 

We will keep you posted but we are doing everything in our power to get this lift back up and safely ready for this weekend if at all possible.


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## skithetrees (Jan 3, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> 1/3 Brief Update:
> 
> The snowmaking crew turned on the guns last night on Wand down to Show Off and will continue making snow today and tomorrow until temps warm on Wednesday.
> 
> ...


Seems like good news, but 75% of this would have been unnecessary if the lift had been slowed down and not run while surging for ten minutes.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 3, 2022)

skithetrees said:


> Seems like good news, but 75% of this would have been unnecessary if the lift had been slowed down and not run while surging for ten minutes.


Same thoughts here, would’ve rather waited an extra day or two for Red to be 100% ready rather than running it and hoping for the best. You live and learn I guess, hopefully no more issues with it this season.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Jan 3, 2022)

I think it is tougher to test than is obvious. Water barrels can't unload themselves so you can't really test at speed and load without people. The lift ran fine when started on Thursday.


----------



## ThatGuy (Jan 3, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> I think it is tougher to test than is obvious. Water barrels can't unload themselves so you can't really test at speed and load without people. The lift ran fine when started on Thursday.


So you’re basically saying that the people on the lift were test dummies. Also it was running while surging for a good amount of time, could’ve just ran it slow got everyone off and re-evaluated the situation.


----------



## tumbler (Jan 3, 2022)

I also think that the surging type problem should have been anticipated as it is not out of the realm of an issue with a new lift install.  What concerns me, and probably the state, is that they kept loading and running the chair.  A friggin chair fell off the line!


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## NYDB (Jan 3, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> So you’re basically saying that the people on the lift were test dummies. Also it was running while surging for a good amount of time, could’ve just ran it slow got everyone off and re-evaluated the situation.


Right

thats all that needed to happen.  Like wednesday.  stop loading immediately, slowly offload, continue to work the problem.


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## Newpylong (Jan 3, 2022)

skithetrees said:


> Seems like good news, but 75% of this would have been unnecessary if the lift had been slowed down and not run while surging for ten minutes.


Repeating something that happened in the past doesn't rectify the situation.


----------



## hughconway (Jan 3, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Repeating something that happened in the past doesn't rectify the situation.


Ignoring and pretending it didn't happen doesn't excuse it.

In the interest of transparency, have you informed the readers of this thread that you are employed by Magic?  Seems particularly relevant especially as you attempt to defend Magic's gross negligence in continuing to run an obviously malfunctioning chairlift until a chair launched off the line while using their customers as human crash test dummies.


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## JimG. (Jan 3, 2022)

Whoa Hugh was waiting for that meatball.

Grand Slam!


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 3, 2022)

More like struck out looking.

Employed by Magic? Wow....if I was still in the industry, looking for a job, and lived closer I would love to work there. However I think by now many people on here know I live in central New Hampshire and used to run a mountain in this state for a number of years.

Coming from another small hill I did work with Geoff on a few items such as the Freedom Pass, reciprocal pass benefits etc and I respect how they continually claw back and what they're doing down there. I defend where I feel things to be defended and I criticize where I feel things should be criticized. Nowhere here have I defended why that lift ran like that if there was a known issue, and you can take that to the bank.

I have no skin in the game. Thanks for making me spit out what I was drinking though.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 3, 2022)




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## drjeff (Jan 3, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Whoa Hugh was waiting for that meatball.
> 
> Grand Slam!


Sounds like a big pop fly to center where the batter started the home run trot and the announcer started the grand slam call just to see the centerfielder catch the ball 10 feet short of the warning track!


----------



## cdskier (Jan 3, 2022)

There goes any chance Hugh had of claiming he's always right. That was a pretty big whiff...


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## ss20 (Jan 3, 2022)

cdskier said:


> There goes any chance Hugh had of claiming he's always right. That was a pretty big whiff...



Yeah it's not like @Newpylong has where he lives in his bio and that it's 1.5 hours from Magic (iirc....I've done enfield to Magic before)


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## hughconway (Jan 3, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> More like struck out looking.
> 
> Employed by Magic? Wow....if I was still in the industry, looking for a job, and lived closer I would love to work there. However I think by now many people on here know I live in central New Hampshire and used to run a mountain in this state for a number of years.
> 
> ...



Now you are just flat out lying.  Most here probably know you used to be at Whaleback, and I happen to know for a fact that you were hired by Magic to be a coach one of their programs (race or freeride?) this year.  My source is going to forward me a copy of the email you sent out to parents as proof.  If you'd like, I'd be happy to post it here but will require your approval to do so as it contains your personal email as well as your phone number in the signature.


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## hughconway (Jan 3, 2022)

ss20 said:


> cdskier said:
> 
> 
> > There goes any chance Hugh had of claiming he's always right. That was a pretty big whiff...
> ...



Get some popcorn fellas, the forwarded email has already arrived. 

Edit: It appears he was bought in to coach the freeride team (not the race team)


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 3, 2022)

lol


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 3, 2022)

I not only used to "be there", I was the General Manager, not a coach.

Now that you've said your piece, I think I do know who you're talking about. They are a coach in the Magic Freeride program, and used to be a coach in the Freeride program at Whaleback. Name starts with a T. Though a lot of people left WB it could be many.

I'll wait for deadheadskier to come on here, who knows me personally from his visits to the Whale, to tell you just how much of a blabbering moron you are.

At least you could have claimed I worked for Vail, that would have pissed me off.


----------



## hughconway (Jan 3, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I not only used to "be there", I was the General Manager, not a coach.
> 
> Now that you've said your piece, I think I do know who you're talking about. They are a coach in the Magic Freeride program, and used to be a coach in the Freeride program at Whaleback. Though a lot of people left WB.
> 
> I'll wait for deadheadskier to come on here, who knows me personally from his visits to the Whale, to tell you just how much of a blabbering moron you are.



It's possible that I am mistaken, but I really don't think so.  Is the coaches name Tim P?  Or is that you?


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## drjeff (Jan 3, 2022)




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## deadheadskier (Jan 3, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Ignoring and pretending it didn't happen doesn't excuse it.
> 
> In the interest of transparency, have you informed the readers of this thread that you are employed by Magic?  Seems particularly relevant especially as you attempt to defend Magic's gross negligence in continuing to run an obviously malfunctioning chairlift until a chair launched off the line while using their customers as human crash test dummies.



You got the wrong man Hugh!

Newpylong is for certain not employed by Magic.


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## ne_skier (Jan 3, 2022)

hughconway said:


> My source is going to forward me a copy of the email you sent out to parents as proof.  If you'd like, I'd be happy to post it here but will require your approval to do so as it contains your personal email as well as your phone number in the signature.


Grown adults doxing other grown adults on an online ski forum...and I thought I've seen it all...seriously what are we doing here


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## hughconway (Jan 3, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> You got the wrong man Hugh!
> 
> Newpylong is for certain not employed by Magic.



If that is the case, please excuse my mistake.  It was my (mis)understanding that newpylong is the person that I was referring to.


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## hughconway (Jan 3, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Grown adults doxing other grown adults on an online ski forum...and I thought I've seen it all...seriously what are we doing here


What are you talking about?  I clearly stated I was not going to post someone's personal information without their permission.


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## icecoast1 (Jan 3, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Grown adults doxing other grown adults on an online ski forum...and I thought I've seen it all...seriously what are we doing here



Not even doxing the right person makes it even better!


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## deadheadskier (Jan 3, 2022)

hughconway said:


> What are you talking about?  I clearly stated I was not going to post someone's personal information without their permission.



You were certainly toeing the line though.  Not a good idea


----------



## NYDB (Jan 3, 2022)




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## ne_skier (Jan 3, 2022)

hughconway said:


> What are you talking about?  I clearly stated I was not going to post someone's personal information without their permission.


Allegedly retrieving someone's personal information such as emails, phone numbers, employment history, and names of relatives and threatening someone with it counts as doxing. Doxing is something that is done by angry 14-year-olds and people on Twitter, not rationally thinking adults. If you find yourself in the scenario where you have to resort to finding someone's personal information on the internet out of anger (or more embarrassingly, pretending like you did to look tough), you need to evaluate how you deal with disagreements on the internet.


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## jaytrem (Jan 3, 2022)




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## Bosco DaSkia (Jan 4, 2022)

Hugh Conway _*cannot*_ be defeated…..










fact.


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## Tin (Jan 4, 2022)

hughconway said:


> It's possible that I am mistaken, but I really don't think so.  Is the coaches name Tim P?  Or is that you?



What a dumbass trying to stir stuff. I'm good friends with Tim, he is a stand-up guy that is all about skiing with his family and does start BS like this. However, it is easy to figure out who you are LOL


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## Newpylong (Jan 4, 2022)

Yep, and a damn good skier. Him in the bumps is fun to watch.


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## sull1102 (Jan 4, 2022)

Wow, well this has been fun catching up on the old Magic lmao some things just will never change. To bring it back to reality a little bit here(or just throw a malotov cocktail on this thread), has Pfister Mountain Services completed a job at Magic on time or without major issues stopping work for a significant amount of time.


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## tumbler (Jan 4, 2022)

hughconway said:


> It's possible that I am mistaken, but I really don't think so.  Is the coaches name Tim P?  Or is that you?


more like Hugh Jass


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## slatham (Jan 4, 2022)

sull1102 said:


> Wow, well this has been fun catching up on the old Magic lmao some things just will never change. To bring it back to reality a little bit here(or just throw a malotov cocktail on this thread), has Pfister Mountain Services completed a job at Magic on time or without major issues stopping work for a significant amount of time.



NO!

And unfortunately there is still so much more to do.


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## NYDB (Jan 5, 2022)

On their website they are selling mid mountain only tickets for the weekend. 

So no red this weekend is a done deal?


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## ne_skier (Jan 5, 2022)

Wouldn't be surprised. They said it would "certainly" take a week for them to get it up and running again. We definitely would've heard something (or will hear something) if there was a noteworthy development. The weekend after next is MLK however, and surely they'll be pushing to make sure they have summit access by then, especially if snow is forecasted (As of now, dry through MLK weekend). 
Speaking of MLK, I wonder what their plans are for Tuck It if they can't get Black Line open. Without snowmaking and grooming, it certainly won't be skiable by then, although I'm not sure what their capabilities are with that run. Talisman maybe? You can get going pretty fast on that, then again making snow on Wizard could be the final nail in the coffin for potentially getting Black running this season, as I'm pretty sure it's part of the work road to get to Tower 13. Tough call, will be interesting to see how it pans out.


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## slatham (Jan 5, 2022)

Tuck it, IIRC, in the past has started on the bottom part of Black Line, just below the ledge section. This corresponds to the crossover from HOM. There is a snowmaking line that goes up to that section (I think it’s a dead end from Hocus Pocus, not part of the upper Witch to Blackline snowmaking section). In any event they can make snow on the lower part of Black into Hocus Pocus and run it. I would guess that once Wand to Showoff is done that they start on lower Wand into Hocus Pocus and terrain park, and can probably put a few guns up on that section of BL.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Jan 5, 2022)

I'm impressed that some people still think there's a chance for Black being ready this season. TBH, it seems plausible to me that Red is done for the season.


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## MG Skier (Jan 5, 2022)

Well, if school cancels in Eastern Massachusetts on Friday, I may head out for a first hand observation.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 5, 2022)

Why do you think Red needs more than some checks, the chair put back on, and a couple days of quality time with a motor controls guy - aka a couple weeks of work at the outside?


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## ne_skier (Jan 5, 2022)

If I had to guess, there is no chance of Black opening this season if parts are still being machined. Magic will be unwilling to keep the work road clear for however long it takes to machine more parts, and rightfully so. I'd rather ski as much of the mountain as possible off Red alone, even if that means longer lift lines. If the parts are machined and ready to go in, I'd say it's probably 50/50. Those sheaves are the last major hurdle to getting that lift open, the rest is stuff like safety bar installation and fine-tuning. 
This of course all depends on the condition of the Red Lift, however, I don't see the Red Lift's issues keeping it closed for longer than two weeks at the very most. Everything that is needed to fix Red is already there, that being drive and motor experts to help calibrate the two and prevent surging. Unless something major happens, there is no waiting for parts to be drawn up, machined, shipped, waiting for installation equipment, etc like we saw last summer with the Black Chair, and the massive delays associated.


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## slatham (Jan 5, 2022)

Work road already covered in numerous sections........


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## slatham (Jan 5, 2022)

From snow report

1/5: We will re-open wth Green Lift and possibly Red Lift to summit on 1/7 heading into the weekend. Red Lift is dependent on passing its state inspection on Thursday 1/6 after fixing the new drive.

There will be limited outdoor grilled food on the deck due to shortages in the kitchen with Covid-19 safety and health protocols. The Tavern will not be open for dinner until next week.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 5, 2022)

gosh id love this storm to shift north and pummel magic and then use my sunday pass this weekend


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## NYDB (Jan 5, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> gosh id love this storm to shift north and pummel magic and then use my sunday pass this weekend


If red is running I'd prefer Magic to Stratton by a lot this Sunday.    They should have umc through the woods, upper trick, medium, wand, lmc, vertigo, and showoff.

Not exciting and you won't get as many laps and vert in but whatevs. Strattons the same 7 trails worth skiing that all ski the same and end up an ice sheet by 10:30


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## urungus (Jan 5, 2022)

Just received todays Alpine Update:

We will plan to re-open the ski area with Green Lift and beginner Sunkids conveyor lift this Friday January 7th--and, possibly Red Lift to summit as well on Friday depending on the lift passing its state inspection and load test tomorrow January 6th. Thursday we will be closed for the load test and as we adjust staffing, especially in food & beverage, due to COVID health protocols. Hopefully by next week we can return to our normal Thursday-Sunday plus holidays schedule as we get more staff returning by the MLK holiday weekend.

In terms of Red Chair, Pfister Mountain Services reviewed all lift mechanical--from the new shaft and couplings, the planetary, and bullwheel bearings--and all checked out perfectly. For the drive, a tachometer was added and the "regen" drive settings have gone through adjustments made per All Ski Lifts' Larry Wollum in consultation with the drive manufacturer and Stevens Engineering. The state lift inspector has been involved throughout this process. Today's Red Lift operating inspection was successful pending the final load test scheduled for tomorrow. If all goes well then the Red Chair will be set for service to the summit on Friday and into the weekend.

For Friday and the weekend, there will be no food available from the kitchen so we will simply be grilling on the deck due to staff shortages in the kitchen with Covid-19 protocols in place. Therefore, the Tavern will not be open for dinner until next week. The Tavern will be open on the deck and indoors for beverages, and our mask requirement policy remains in effect there.

We made snow Sunday night through Tuesday night on Wand and Show Off until snowmaking operations were suspended today due to warming temperatures. We will start up again to finish Show Off on Thursday after the load test, and then we will head up top to get Upper Trick into the middle of Magic Carpet later this week. There is at least a little snow expected on Friday (up to 2") but eventually we will get that foot+ powder storm!

[snip]

We will up date you on Red Lift status and summit skiing tomorrow after the load test.


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## slatham (Jan 6, 2022)

Good news, Red passed.

Bad news, covid got too many patrollers scheduled to work tomorrow so they are closed Friday. 

Punches just keep coming.


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## MG Skier (Jan 6, 2022)

See you Saturday Magic!


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## NYDB (Jan 7, 2022)

I wonder if they did a late or early groom. Or maybe no groom
should be fun tomorrow.  I expect it to be ‘magic busy‘.  
If the next storm performs well, maybe by sun afternoon they could have a couple experts only / thin cover routes down the east side.


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## Not Sure (Jan 7, 2022)

Haha A little shade being thrown on AZ by TGR starting with post #775 




__





						East Coast Roll Call 21-22 We have a hot date with Skadi, Pictures at 11
					

Looks like Laps had some legitimate turns, Congratulations!!!      Another long winter in front of us. Hope everyone can make the best of it and stay safe all winter. 30 year anniversary of Valley life for me and looking forward to celebrating with fun adventures near and far.       Gong show...



					www.tetongravity.com


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## urungus (Jan 7, 2022)

Thanks for the link, I had heard about the shit Fairbanks pulled on the Brodie deed, but not the other allegations.  Here’s the post

Originally Posted by *MyNameIsAugustWest*



> Everybody also seems to forget (or maybe doesn't know) that when the Fairbank Group decided to shutter Magic, they cut holes in most of the snowmaking pipes to ensure Magic could never again compete with their resort down the street.



I had not heard this tidbit. Sounds like typical Fairbanks.

I first really got into skiing as a kid at Brodie. Then the Faribanks closed it. And wrote into the deed of the property that it may never be used as a public ski area ever again. Criminal, if you ask me.

Almost as criminal as their penchant for grooming the hell out of every single flake that falls on Jiminy, where I kept skiing after the closure of Brodie.

I've also heard that the widow of the operator of Mt Tom brought Fairbanks in as a consultant, once her husband died and operational responsibilities fell to her. Fairbanks persuaded her to close the ski area.

Quite a record of death and destruction in this dude's wake.


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## PAabe (Jan 7, 2022)

Interesting that the lift inspector and engineers were allegedly present and in approval of the lift operating whilst surging


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## Newpylong (Jan 7, 2022)

urungus said:


> Thanks for the link, I had heard about the shit Fairbanks pulled on the Brodie deed, but not the other allegations.  Here’s the post
> 
> Originally Posted by *MyNameIsAugustWest*
> 
> ...



IIRC, In that time period, while O'Donnell was his partner at Jiminy I don't think Fairbanks was involved in anything other than that (including Magic). What is now the multi-resort owner The Fairbanks Group had yet to be born.

Oddly I don't hate the Fairbanks for what happened to Brodie. I place the blame more squarely in the Kelly's laps. What did they think would happen selling out to next door? They took the money and built that dumbass golf course without a care in the world.


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## ss20 (Jan 7, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> IIRC, In that time period, while O'Donnell was his partner at Jiminy I don't think Fairbanks was involved in anything other than that (including Magic). What is now the multi-resort owner The Fairbanks Group had yet to be born.
> 
> Oddly I don't hate the Fairbanks for what happened to Brodie. I place the blame more squarely in the Kelly's laps. What did they think would happen selling out to next door? They took the money and built that dumbass golf course without a care in the world.



Yes and that region was way oversaturated with Brodie, Jiminy, Catamount, Butternut, Bousqet, Berkshire East, and Otis all on top of each other.  When all of them were operating they all (save for Jiminy) had some bleak years (Butternut in the 90s, Catamount before being sold, Bousquet for most of the 21st century).  While it sucks seeing ski areas close there needed to be some trimming of the fat. 

And don't hate on Jiminy/Fairbanks.  They've probably got one of the longest-running strong operations records of any mountain at the moment in the East.  Super-aggressive snowmaking and I don't think I've ever seen a lift down.  Last year with covid they brought back the Summit Triple midweek too which I thought was really cool as the lines for the Six were long with capacity restrictions.  Of course I can complain about grooming and pricing, but it is a damn well fine-run resort and everything about Cranmore is the same way.  Bromely the picture is a little less rosie but still have a solid operational record.


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## Newpylong (Jan 7, 2022)

Yes I grew up in the Berkshires racing at all of those hills. I can say with exception of Jiminy and Bousquet (due to being in Pittsfield) every one of those areas was on obvious life support and felt like they were 1970s ski areas operating in the 90s. I am still amazed and happy the ones that survived are thriving.

My only real complaint about Jiminy is the brutal grooming.

Wow we've really deviated from topic. Sorry folks.


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## skithetrees (Jan 7, 2022)

I think there is a lot of truth to that. Heard that first hand from the first owners of magic to reopen it. Granted, i take everything they said with a grain of salt, but they did say that. I also vaguely remember them saying that the Fairbanks dumped rocks down the pipes.


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## ne_skier (Jan 8, 2022)

I don’t think that would be Fairbanks, but rather Boston Concessions and Joe O’Donnell/Simon Oren, which owned Bromley and Magic from the mid 80s till around Magic’s closure. This page goes into more detail, I’m sure you’ve all seen it https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Vermont/magicmtn.php . Could be wrong though.


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## zoomzoom (Jan 8, 2022)

"Interesting that the lift inspector and engineers were allegedly present and in approval of the lift operating whilst surging"

not likely, i know them both.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 8, 2022)

I think it's plausible contractors or inspectors weren't present but were asked about the surging drive under load after the first day, and misjudged the severity of the issue based on that. It would certainly explain why they ran through the problem - management saying "just run it" is different than management saying "we asked the guy who knows, he said it's okay." Without an official answer or a face to face, I can't say that is or isn't what happened, just that it would make sense.


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## NYDB (Jan 8, 2022)

nice day here today.  red started a bit late but has run fine all day.  firm snow.  cold start. 

wand to showoff not open yet but for sure tommorow.  they need the second route down the lower half.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> nice day here today.  red started a bit late but has run fine all day.  firm snow.  cold start.
> 
> wand to showoff not open yet but for sure tommorow.  they need the second route down the lower half.


Is it crowded today?


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## IceEidolon (Jan 8, 2022)

With everybody coming down Lower Carpet? Wouldn't be hard to get a traffic jam in the runout. At least they should be able to keep the guns on pretty much every day next week - that ought to get Upper Carpet and Trick squared away for MLK. Maybe even finish off Wand down to Carumba or Hocus Pocus?


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## NYDB (Jan 8, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Is it crowded today?


no lift lines but magic carpet from green lift down *felt* a bit crowded today.  

the afternoon ended up being gorgeous.  Light wind, sunshine, mid 20s at base.


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## NYDB (Jan 8, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> With everybody coming down Lower Carpet? Wouldn't be hard to get a traffic jam in the runout. At least they should be able to keep the guns on pretty much every day next week - that ought to get Upper Carpet and Trick squared away for MLK. Maybe even finish off Wand down to Carumba or Hocus Pocus?


I would think with the temps they could get lower trick, carumba/lower red line and hocus pocus.

I'm sure they want to get a little park going for mlk too.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 8, 2022)

Hopefully some of the fan guns can move over to the park area even if Wand to Hocus Pocus proper isn't a priority. Per Instagram story they're running the top of Trick, which takes the vast majority of compressed air (if it's warm and the four Rats at the top are hungry) or all the summit water (if it's cold and they can turn up the HKDs). I'd figure on at least two days on Trick before they can look at lower Wand, longer if they aren't happy with Upper Magic Carpet or other open trails for MLK weekend and focus on that first. Still, (probably) having the park plus Magic Carpet ttb, Trick ->Showoff TTB, plus a half route with the other blues and the beginner carpet open? With the December we had? Hell of a nice job.


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## ne_skier (Jan 8, 2022)

If we have near-zero snow coming in the near future which is what it looks like as of now, perhaps we could see them blowing snow on Wizard and Talisman once the east side is all taken care of


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## Newpylong (Jan 8, 2022)

That's what the typical rollout is. Except last year where they did Sorcerer first since that pipe was repaired.

Could see Witch >  Black as well instead this year for the same reason. Not sure what the requirements are to get Talisman open by x date for racing if there are indeed any requirements.


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## ne_skier (Jan 8, 2022)

Can they groom Witch-Black somehow or would that just be skiing on whales? I believe they have to get snow on Black Line below the ledges section for next weekend if they want to do Tuck It there. They would obviously need a way to get there as well.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 8, 2022)

If it's just for the event, I bet they could take a side by side or a snowmobile up an access road to the middle of Black Line.

As for grooming out the piles, if you're careful I think you could push Witch to Black Line with a free cat. There'd be some pucker factor involved for sure and it'd take extra snow since you'd really want to push downhill, but it should be possible. There is a winch cat on premises, but I don't know if that's available for this project. Or, they could make snow carefully, minimize the whales, and open it ungroomed.

There's less area to cover for Witch to Black to Hocus Pocus than Wizard to Talisman, it looks nice from the road, and it might be easier to only patrol one side of the mountain. I don't know if that outweighs the grooming and snowmaking access challenges for working on a steeper trail with no permanent tower guns.


----------



## slatham (Jan 9, 2022)

As I understand it they still have to hit Lower Trick. They also need Wand to Hocus Pocus and Terrain Park. With Tuck It next weekend they will hit the lower, below the ledges, section of Black Line, which feeds into Hocus Pocus (unless they move it to another slope). They can groom that section of BL via crossover from Wand, or just go up it (I do not think the winch cat in maintenance area is operable).

Good chance they also do upper beginner area for MLK.

In my opinion this will take all week, so they wouldn’t start Talisman until at least the weekend. For a variety of reasons I am sure Talisman is priority over Witch/Blackline. That said, they may go for BL just because they can, for the first time, in forever. But to me Talisman makes way more sense.

Carumba typically is later. Last year it was first because it’s on 400 line and they had issues with 300 line so Showoff and Hocus Pocus never done. So this year I think we’re back to Wand to Showoff, and then Wand to Hocus Pocus, as early priorities.

Grooming Witch/Blackline is an interesting question. Personally I would not. The middle section has been groomed in past via Broomstick and using crossover to HOM before ledges section. But top of Witch has double fall line, there are some ledges at top of second section of Witch ( maybe can cover with snowmaking), and of course you have the ledges section (again maybe you can cover with snowmaking, at least skiers left). But it would be a challenge. And not every snowmaking trail needs to be groomed. IMHO BL should not be groomed. This is Magic after all.

Would be nice if it would snow and we could just ski everything.


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## Newpylong (Jan 9, 2022)

I would never put a cat on Witch personally. Gonna have to moves the guns around a lot...


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## ne_skier (Jan 9, 2022)

slatham said:


> Would be nice if it would snow and we could just ski everything.


Amen…weather channel showing 2 snow “events” between now and the 23rd with 3-5 inches of accumulation each, hopefully one of those grows larger than currently expected as we get closer to the fact. Still, put them together and you could probably get something like Twilight Zone open. Temps mostly in the 20s.


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## urungus (Jan 9, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Can they groom Witch-Black somehow or would that just be skiing on whales? I believe they have to get snow on Black Line below the ledges section for next weekend if they want to do Tuck It there. They would obviously need a way to get there as well.


I believe they announced that Tuck It has been moved to Showoff


----------



## NYDB (Jan 9, 2022)

It looks like they will blow in the rest of trick and then carumba/RL.  DW was dragging the guns up lower redline this morning


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 9, 2022)

They moved guns to Carumba today. I spoke with Management and it seemed like they were thinking once they finished off Trick Carumba they would go Wizard to Sorcerer (Sorcerer is narrower so could get it down quicker). I didn’t press them on timing given so many things can change based on weather and hiccups etc. sounded like they were not super eager on Hocus Pocus in the near term given the width of the trail (I did not ask about the terrain park).

If they do get the above done, it would be a high water mark in terms of snowmaking at Magic. I know it doesn’t feel that way, but it is true. Trick
Medium, and through the woods will give 3 distinct east side options. Wand/Showoff and Lower Carpet providing two totally different options off green (each with an additional halfway option (Carumba/Vertigo) and when they get Wizard Sorcer open two distinct red chair options. As an added bonus there will be three distinct top to bottom runs eliminating the traditional pinch point on Wand and the current one on Lower Magic Carpet. 

I know there is more to do, and everyone wishes snowmaking could get done more quickly. but given everything they have dealt with on the chairs, I do think they should get credit for delivering/being on track to deliver on snowmaking.


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## slatham (Jan 9, 2022)

Interesting. Did not know about Tuck It move. And of course the history of Wand-Hocus Pocus being "early"  was prior to making snow on LMC, and prior to beginner area moving. So it makes sense to hit Carumba - decent trail, less linear feet, very visible under chair, etc.

Have to say I am not in favor of Sorcerer vs Talisman. In fact, I am not a fan of having full on snowmaking on Sorcerer at all - deep and groomed all the time. In fact last year IMHO they didn't do a very good job on that trail (but I am sure Do Work learned from that). Just think it skis much better as a natural trail, or maybe with some snowmaking to augment the natural, but not groomed, unless necessary.

But my point really is Talisman is much much more "valuable" to have open. IMHO.


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## ne_skier (Jan 9, 2022)

In terms of which trail would be better to have open on MLK weekend, I agree that Talisman would be better, and that Sorcerer skis better ungroomed, but with everything else they want to get open for MLK (Wand, Carumba, Lower Red, rest of Wizard, Terrain Park?) Sorcerer is a safer bet. Hopefully if we get some actual snow this season they’ll let it bump up.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 9, 2022)

Personally I'm not expecting any West Side terrain open without more natural snow to help for MLK Friday. Sorcerer takes less to open than Talisman but there's a lot of trail on Upper Wizard that needs air hogs, and there's just a lot of trail period on lower Wizard to tie into the base area. If the inrun or Runout can open on natural then it looks a lot more practical.

Edit: If they can get Carumba wrapped up quickly and move firepower over to Sorcerer, they may make a liar out of me. It's only 7 or 8 acres, and a lot of that is runout that can open thin. They'll have the weather to make the most of the HKD towers for sure. Change my prediction from "not happening" to "everyone who skis Sorcerer on MLK owes the team that makes it happen a burger and a beer."


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## Newpylong (Jan 9, 2022)

I agree, expectations need to be realistic. Magic has limited pumping capacity per acre and plenty of runs without fixed gear. It all takes time...  some of these evenings this week are trending borderline dangerous to make snow in too. Temping to keep turning gear on and drop the hammer but important to keep a lot of flow going in those temps and sometimes that means bleeding off a lot of water.

The good thing is unlike most areas that are done by the end of January Magic has shown they'll keep opening terrain right to the middle of February sometimes later. If the temps keep up I'm sure plenty will get covered in due time.


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## NYDB (Jan 9, 2022)

The only reason it feels like they haven’t done a great job with snowmaking (and I agree that they have made a nice effort)  is that wand to anything isn’t open. (Aware they were trying to keep the work road open)

The weather has been brutal.

put me in the camp of no west side for milk weekend unless it snows big.  I can’t imagine they aren’t going to have to resurface some open terrain after the hard freeze coming.  That would be groomer magic.   It rained a bunch today.

Brutal timing on those private mountain rentals.  Get that bar open early!


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 9, 2022)

The rain wound up around 1PM. I thought it would groom out after the freeze but I'm a dope about this stuff.


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## ne_skier (Jan 12, 2022)

Opensnow showing 11" of snow for Magic in the next 5 days...this Monday storm could be an answer to our prayers


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## IceEidolon (Jan 12, 2022)

Per socials they're going after Hocus Pocus next, not the West Side - at least that's where the portable HKDs are headed. They could in theory run the HKDs and fans off the 300 line and use extra air on the top of Wizard or on Sorcerer tower HKDs.


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## ne_skier (Jan 12, 2022)

With the snow that's coming, I see no need to head over to the west side. They certainly won't be getting anything over there open for this weekend so it won't do them much good short term. The best strategy in my opinion is to keep filling in the gaps on the east side to spread out crowds as much as possible. The additions of Showoff, Carumba -> Lower Red, and Hocus Pocus should eliminate any lower mtn bottlenecks (LMC runout), and the terrain park will be a nice addition as well. If the snow turns out to be as much as OpenSnow is predicting, I could see most, if not all of the groomers open up (including west side groomers) as well as probably about half of the ungroomed/glade runs, with the exception of steep / super rocky stuff, a la Upper Magician.


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## Newpylong (Jan 12, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Per socials they're going after Hocus Pocus next, not the West Side - at least that's where the portable HKDs are headed. They could in theory run the HKDs and fans off the 300 line and use extra air on the top of Wizard or on Sorcerer tower HKDs.



Sorcerer doesn't have fixed gear but Talisman does. I could be wrong but I think the system is designed to be used as you describe. I think it's a weird setup where the 250 HP pump only runs the "300" loop and the 400 HP pump only the "400" loop. Both don't operate off a common header. Need DoWork to confirm!

Should be a ton of air left if they're only using the HKDs and fans. Believe they have 4000 CFM with both of those rotaries.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 12, 2022)

I believe Sorcerer got at least some towers fairly recently, could be wrong.

They'll run out of HKD sleds before they run out of air on one compressor - there are only ~15 portable Impulse/Vipers. If the team wanted to, there should be extra water to run anything off the 400 line and a whole compressor idle, it's just a question of where to go, with what, and of manpower at that point. There's a couple spots they could tie into 400 line water right around Hocus Pocus, and the beginner area is 400 line also so they won't be limited to just the small pump.

You're also right about the pump split, 300 line is Hocus Pocus and Showoff, 400 line is everything else. The pumps are separate.


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## slatham (Jan 12, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Sorcerer doesn't have fixed gear but Talisman does. I could be wrong but I think the system is designed to be used as you describe. I think it's a weird setup where the 250 HP pump only runs the "300" loop and the 400 HP pump only the "400" loop. Both don't operate off a common header. Need DoWork to confirm!
> 
> Should be a ton of air left if they're only using the HKDs and fans. Believe they have 4000 CFM with both of those rotaries.


300 line and 400 separate. IIRC 300 was original installation back when they had lower mountain lifts, and 400 was later and done separately. Could be wrong.

I highly doubt they do Hocus Pocus/Terrain Park/ Beginner area AND try to get snow on west side. I say too much for crew and as noted, not enough time to get west side open for the weekend anyhow. With luck they get enough natural next week to cover at least run in/out and all they need is to focus on steeps.

No fixed guns on Sorcerer unless they put them in since October.


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## Newpylong (Jan 13, 2022)

slatham said:


> 300 line and 400 separate. IIRC 300 was original installation back when they had lower mountain lifts, and 400 was later and done separately. Could be wrong.
> 
> I highly doubt they do Hocus Pocus/Terrain Park/ Beginner area AND try to get snow on west side. I say too much for crew and as noted, not enough time to get west side open for the weekend anyhow. With luck they get enough natural next week to cover at least run in/out and all they need is to focus on steeps.
> 
> No fixed guns on Sorcerer unless they put them in since October.



That makes sense thanks. That is a lot of mountain for only a single 250 and 400 for sure.


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## ne_skier (Jan 13, 2022)

Update on the snow, for Sunday night into Monday (not counting potential little snowfalls later in the week) it looks like the low estimate is around 1 foot and the high estimate is 21”


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 13, 2022)

Reserved Magic on Indy Pass for Monday - which will be my first time there.. Doesn't look like any rooms are available too close to Londonderry so will likely have to book Sunday night in Manchester area. How bad are those roads gonna be and any travel tips? And would I be better of spending Sun night elsewhere to be coming from a different direction than Manchester?


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## slatham (Jan 13, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Reserved Magic on Indy Pass for Monday - which will be my first time there.. Doesn't look like any rooms are available too close to Londonderry so will likely have to book Sunday night in Manchester area. How bad are those roads gonna be and any travel tips? And would I be better of spending Sun night elsewhere to be coming from a different direction than Manchester?



Yes, if you can, stay in Londonderry area or other towns in the golden triangle area. There is a significant and problematic hill coming up from Manchester which IF you can avoid, you should. Weston, Bondville, So Londonderry, even over in Chester. 

Regardless, one should have snow tires....


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## ThatGuy (Jan 13, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Reserved Magic on Indy Pass for Monday - which will be my first time there.. Doesn't look like any rooms are available too close to Londonderry so will likely have to book Sunday night in Manchester area. How bad are those roads gonna be and any travel tips? And would I be better of spending Sun night elsewhere to be coming from a different direction than Manchester?


The hill coming up from Manchester is pretty long as Slatham said, I wouldn’t want to drive it in a storm.


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## NYDB (Jan 13, 2022)

I'd rather come in from chester than manchester, but 11 should be fine.  Like slatham and thatguy said coming from manchester will require quite a hill climb and it will be a shitshow if you are following people without good tires.  It will be pounding monday morning and 11 probably tops out at 2300 ish feet before you decend the hill to bromley. 

Its certainly not unheard of for 11 to be closed between manchester and peru due to ice/snow


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 13, 2022)

slatham said:


> Yes, if you can, stay in Londonderry area or other towns in the golden triangle area. There is a significant and problematic hill coming up from Manchester which IF you can avoid, you should. Weston, Bondville, So Londonderry, even over in Chester.
> 
> Regardless, one should have snow tires....





ThatGuy said:


> The hill coming up from Manchester is pretty long as Slatham said, I wouldn’t want to drive it in a storm.





NY DirtBag said:


> I'd rather come in from chester than manchester, but 11 should be fine.  Like slatham and thatguy said coming from manchester will require quite a hill climb and it will be a shitshow if you are following people without good tires.  It will be pounding monday morning and 11 probably tops out at 2300 ish feet before you decend the hill to bromley.
> 
> Its certainly not unheard of for 11 to be closed between manchester and peru due to ice/snow


Appreciate the tips all. I do have a Subaru Forester with brand new Blizzak top of line winter tires, but there will no doubt be a lot of long weekend warriors out with poorly equipped vehicles creating extra hazards.  Based on this feedback if I can't book a room somewhere with better access than Manchester, I will make a different plan for Monday at a place where I can get lodging more accessible to mountain. There should be great skiing about everywhere Monday. Maybe hit Catamount instead which would also make for a shorter drive home to NJ after skiing Monday, when I expect roads will still be rough.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 13, 2022)

Anyone have experience to share about Snowdon Chalet Motel nearby?


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 13, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Reserved Magic on Indy Pass for Monday - which will be my first time there.. Doesn't look like any rooms are available too close to Londonderry so will likely have to book Sunday night in Manchester area. How bad are those roads gonna be and any travel tips? And would I be better of spending Sun night elsewhere to be coming from a different direction than Manchester?



lol. good luck with that. 

i drove from manchester to stratton at 6 AM during that massive December storm last year. i barely got up the mountain. i wont do that again. skiing Monday is generally a dumb and dangerous proposition especially if you cant stay over Monday to tuesday, but at least magic is least likely to have wind holds.

i am going to montpelier Saturday night, jay sunday, then home before the snow and danger driving. magic next weekend for sure tho.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 13, 2022)

these storms are when my 'stay in a shitty motel in a town 30 minutes away' just doesn't cut it. no way to safely ski this storm unless you can be within 5 miles of the mountain on Monday morning and stay over into Tuesday


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## slatham (Jan 13, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Anyone have experience to share about Snowdon Chalet Motel nearby?


Not directly, but heard its OK and a viable option for sure. Pretty good commute to Magic too.

If you go with plan B, Catamount, keep an eye on mix line. TBH right now Magic is not clearly north of it either, but Catamount way more dicey.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 13, 2022)

could really use a little eastward shift of the low. its tracking like right over the vt/nh/ma border now. we need that baby over the bay.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 13, 2022)

slatham said:


> Not directly, but heard its OK and a viable option for sure. Pretty good commute to Magic too.
> 
> If you go with plan B, Catamount, keep an eye on mix line. TBH right now Magic is not clearly north of it either, but Catamount way more dicey.


Thanks for pointing that out. Now looking at Greek Peak option, to ski Sun and Mon, which seems solidly in Snow belt and has advantage that storm will pass through there first so there will be more on ground Mon AM and less falling on drive home.


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## ne_skier (Jan 13, 2022)

Predicted snow going down…shit. Max now at 13” for Sunday and Monday, low at 7


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## slatham (Jan 13, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Predicted snow going down…shit. Max now at 13” for Sunday and Monday, low at 7



You shouldn't look at possible accumulations, much less run to run changes, this far out. Other than to gauge the general range - like it looks promising that SoVT will get 6+"(and you definitely don't want to rely on some app that just shows out amounts based on some unknown algo).

I wouldn't focus on accumulation until the storm is 84 hours out and the NAM model (short range US mode)l is in the mix, so tomorrow. And then really focus at 60 hours when the 3k NAM (high resolution) and other shorter range models come into play. Remember, even at 60 hours there is still plenty of time for the track to shift and amounts to fluxuate. Right now the start of the storm is 93 hours out.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 13, 2022)

models are all over the place.  there will be a big storm.  its just a matter of where and when.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 13, 2022)

Looks like Lower Trick gets the rest of the snowmaking - I hadn't realized it wasn't already covered. It has towers and it's easier to get to and faster to cover than anything else not already finished, so that makes good sense.


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## urungus (Jan 14, 2022)

Todays Alpine Update - note how they have not yet given up on Black for this season

Greetings from Londonderry,

We had a fun last weekend with Red Chair operating to the summit, and a nice ski day today with more open terrain thanks to our snowmakers. We look forward to seeing you Friday-Monday during the MLK holiday period.

Certainly it was a longer road than expected, but everyone is happy that Red is running smoothly with its new drive system, shaft and haul-rope. Thanks to Dan and our lift crew for persevering and getting it done, along with our partners Pfister Mountain Services and All Ski Lifts. And a special thanks to all of you for your patience and support! (Pfister Mountain Services, who has been working on Red, will be returning in a couple of weeks to begin finishing their work on Black Line Quad, once final parts arrive and his contracted work elsewhere ends.)

We added 4 new trails for today's skiing and into the weekend.








_Show Off, Wand, Lower Red Line and Carumba ready to go!_

And, we'll be back making snow tonight, Friday and Saturday to add Hocus Pocus and Lower Trick for Sunday/Monday as well. We will also begin to fill in the terrain park. The team has worked in sub-zero weather this week to keep the guns going. We added a little natural snow this week to our base across the mountain (2" fell this week), which will help open a lot of terrain for the first real snowstorm of the year here this weekend!

We will be limiting tickets sold/Indy reservations to under 1,000 per day during the holiday period to keep lines down as much as possible. To save on tickets, always reserve in advance of your ski day:

Ski and Ride Tickets


Saturday will be a very, very cold day so please bring those extra layers and face coverings, and take lots of breaks. There will be après ski music both Saturday and Sunday to warm you up at the Tavern. We are still dealing with a few shortages from Covid protocols until the weekend, so please be patient. There will be lunch, but no dinner service through Friday, but dinner returns for Saturday and Sunday at the Tavern. The Base cafeteria will be open. Mask-wearing is required indoors during this spike in cases and we appreciate your cooperation to keep everyone as healthy as possible so we can remain open. (If you're feeling any symptoms, please stay home.)

The TUCK IT Dash for Cash speed race for $1500 total cash purse is on for Sunday afternoon on Show Off at 1pm with viewing and announcing at the T-BAR. This exciting event is being presented locally by our friends at Upper Pass Beer and Alpen Woodworks! Register before event day to save.

Magic will be open on Monday of MLK and there is a snowstorm alert. It may begin late Sunday night and snow all day Monday, so definitely think about staying and grabbing the first major storm of the year. (It's about time!!!). Patrol will be ready to open more terrain once we get enough depth as the snow falls throughout Monday. Currently 6-12" is predicted depending on the track. Think Snow!

Hope to see you this holiday weekend as we take time to celebrate the life and legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr and continue working to make our sport more inclusive, accessible and welcoming to all.


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## ne_skier (Jan 14, 2022)

urungus said:


> Todays Alpine Update - note how they have not yet given up on Black for this season


Very optimistic but nice to see regardless. I don't see any way for them to get a crane up there until spring, so they're probably making sure they have all parts/equipment ready to begin the crawl up once the snow melts.


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## slatham (Jan 14, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Very optimistic but nice to see regardless. I don't see any way for them to get a crane up there until spring, so they're probably making sure they have all parts/equipment ready to begin the crawl up once the snow melts.



I agree. A helicopter is an obvious option, but that has cost challenges.


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## drjeff (Jan 14, 2022)

slatham said:


> I agree. A helicopter is an obvious option, but that has cost challenges.


Heck, there are tracked vehicle cranes, both self powered and towed, that often companies that run/maintain/build the big delivery powerlines use to access their towers in tough, mountainous terrain during all 4 seasons, that could probably do the job without "air support". 

I guess ultimately if Black gets completed and spins this season may come down to what they are willing/able to spend to make it happen.

Now maybe if a good chunk of the AZ regulars who frequent SoVT started hitting up the BLT multiple a week and running up 3 figure tabs every night, that might help the Black get completed this season!


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## IceEidolon (Jan 14, 2022)

Timberline (under previous cheapskate management) hauled a crane up through snow to replace a crossarm via snowcat. With enough horsepower and cash, especially in a region where the needed equipment is used anyway, it's definitely still possible.


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## drjeff (Jan 14, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Timberline (under previous cheapskate management) hauled a crane up through snow to replace a crossarm via snowcat. With enough horsepower and cash, especially in a region where the needed equipment is used anyway, it's definitely still possible.



Heck, about an hour down route 100 in Jacksonville, is a branch office of a company, Riggs-Distler, that does the big voltage power transmission line construction and maintenance and from having driven by their yard where they store their equipment when it's not out on a job, sure looks like they have numerous "all terrain" crane options. 

No clue if their lifting ability and/or ability to access the tower(s) on Black would work, but they have a bunch of equipment that looks like it has the potential to get the job done, and if so it's just a flat bed haul up 100 for about an hour away...


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## Newpylong (Jan 15, 2022)

I think the question is whether the additional winter construction expenses are worth it. I am not Magic but I would have turned tail by now.

In better news, plenty of cold smoke on Hocus on the webcam.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 15, 2022)

I would have too, personally - what's the expected value of the additional lift beyond having two summit lifts?

Wild ass guess of 12 days this season remaining they could sell out on times 500 additional tickets per day, times $50 per ticket sold price, for an optimistic upper limit of $300k additional gross unlocked by the new lift. That assumes they sell out every Saturday in Feb and March plus a couple powder/holiday days, which like I said - optimistic upper limit.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 15, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I would have too, personally - what's the expected value of the additional lift beyond having two summit lifts?
> 
> Wild ass guess of 12 days this season remaining they could sell out on times 500 additional tickets per day, times $50 per ticket sold price, for an optimistic upper limit of $300k additional gross unlocked by the new lift. That assumes they sell out every Saturday in Feb and March plus a couple powder/holiday days, which like I said - optimistic upper limit.


I don’t see there being much more than one or two weekends and a few pow days (if we ever get one) that Black would even be needed. Appreciate the ambition but personally I’m in no rush to ride Black and would rather see it dialed in and 100% for next season. Of course I’m not lift ops or management so I don’t know what their plan is. Maybe hughconway has some insight


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## slatham (Jan 15, 2022)

I have one word for Black: REDUNDANCY. The saga with Red this season would have been moot if Black was running.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 15, 2022)

slatham said:


> I have one word for Black: REDUNDANCY. The saga with Red this season would have been moot if Black was running.


I get that Black will become the main lift on weekends when ready and add a viable backup summit option as well. But at this point we are 1/3 done with the season and the work isn't slated until another 3 weeks from now, just seems ambitious. More power to the mountain if it happens this season, I’m an impassive observer for the Black saga. The biggest benefit to me will be all the East side trees that go untracked because people will be West side more often.


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## skithetrees (Jan 16, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> I get that Black will become the main lift on weekends when ready and add a viable backup summit option as well. But at this point we are 1/3 done with the season and the work isn't slated until another 3 weeks from now, just seems ambitious. More power to the mountain if it happens this season, I’m an impassive observer for the Black saga. The biggest benefit to me will be all the East side trees that go untracked because people will be West side more often.



Red lift down again. Christmas week and MLK. This is beyond frustrating. I don’t want to be negative, and I am always pulling for them and appreciate what has been done, but this is critical stuff.


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## NYDB (Jan 16, 2022)

skithetrees said:


> Red lift down again. Christmas week and MLK. This is beyond frustrating. I don’t want to be negative, and I am always pulling for them and appreciate what has been done, but this is critical stuff.


any idea why?

That sucks.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 16, 2022)

I'm about to head up there anyway but I'll be bummed if its not turning this afternoon. I'm not going to ski tomorrow either as the driving looks awful.


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## NYDB (Jan 16, 2022)

my wife is up there.  she said the line for green is around the red lift house.  they have the tuck it thing going on.


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## skithetrees (Jan 16, 2022)

Magic has been bought by vail and joined epic. Green presently stopped.


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## ne_skier (Jan 16, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> I'm about to head up there anyway but I'll be bummed if its not turning this afternoon. I'm not going to ski tomorrow either as the driving looks awful.


I admire your optimism, I wouldn’t be shocked if tomorrow’s powder day is green only


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## NYDB (Jan 16, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> I admire your optimism, I wouldn’t be shocked if tomorrow’s powder day is green only


They should let us hike up UMC from top of green then. 

I'm about to drive up for mon at Magic -tues at Stratton.  If red isn't running then I'm not making the effort.  this early season is turning into a bit of a disaster for Magic tbh. 

Does anyone know - does magic have any lift mechanics on payroll?  or is it all subcontracted out?


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## skithetrees (Jan 16, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> They should let us hike up UMC from top of green then.
> 
> I'm about to drive up for mon at Magic -tues at Stratton.  If red isn't running then I'm not making the effort.  this early season is turning into a bit of a disaster for Magic tbh.
> 
> Does anyone know - does magic have any lift mechanics on payroll?  or is it all subcontracted out


45 minutes per run


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## IceEidolon (Jan 16, 2022)

They've got basic maintenance at least in house, but there's some capabilities and skills it's just not practical to do yourself for just a handful of lifts. I don't know where the line is for them.


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## NYDB (Jan 16, 2022)

red is spinning atm


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## ne_skier (Jan 16, 2022)

Did they load anyone today? I imagine they’re really trying to get it open for tomorrow. Storm seems to be coming a little earlier than initially thought so there will probably be a decent amount down already by 8:30.

Next Saturday will be one of the most crowded non-holiday-weekend days of the season. I’m seeing 11” to 19” on OpenSnow Sunday night into Monday (Don’t take my word for it, I’m no meteorologist) and a foot+ of dense snow could open the majority of ungroomed terrain. After a dry early season, everyone’s going to want to be there.


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 16, 2022)

I got there at 1PM. Green was running and the line looked like 10 minutes or so. I could not muster any excitement and headed home. There was someone in the Red control room so I guess they started cycling it at the end of the day per the report above. Plenty of happy people other than me though.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Did they load anyone today? I imagine they’re really trying to get it open for tomorrow. Storm seems to be coming a little earlier than initially thought so there will probably be a decent amount down already by 8:30.
> 
> Next Saturday will be one of the most crowded non-holiday-weekend days of the season. I’m seeing 11” to 19” on OpenSnow Sunday night into Monday (Don’t take my word for it, I’m no meteorologist) and a foot+ of dense snow could open the majority of ungroomed terrain. After a dry early season, everyone’s going to want to be there.


No one was loaded today that I know of. Mechanical issue now fixed.


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## ne_skier (Jan 16, 2022)

Red has been repaired according to Magic’s twitter


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## Newpylong (Jan 16, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> They've got basic maintenance at least in house, but there's some capabilities and skills it's just not practical to do yourself for just a handful of lifts. I don't know where the line is for them.



A hill that size usually handles their own line work, taking the chairs on and off, brittle bar replacement, basic fault troubleshooting etc. The rest (gearbox, motor, driven etc) is almost always contracted.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 16, 2022)

Clearly the reliability leaves a lot to be desired. With no other alternatives to get to the top of Magic, I am glad to be in a hotel 8 miles from Greek Peak.


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## zoomzoom (Jan 16, 2022)

the red's got a good amount of carriage travel, so if the splice was done with the drive forward as much as practical, they may be able to get away with just raising the counterweight a time or two to counter the effects of a new rope's initial "stretch".  on the other and, modern solid core ropes don't "stretch" like hemp core ropes of yesteryear and magic has a relatively short season.  if the stars align maybe they can simply adjust carriage and counterweight switches throughout the season and not have any extra work at all.


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## ss20 (Jan 16, 2022)

zoomzoom said:


> the red's got a good amount of carriage travel, so if the splice was done with the drive forward as much as practical, they may be able to get away with just raising the counterweight a time or two to counter the effects of a new rope's initial "stretch".  on the other and, modern solid core ropes don't "stretch" like hemp core ropes of yesteryear and magic has a relatively short season.  if the stars align maybe they can simply adjust carriage and counterweight switches throughout the season and not have any extra work at all.



Uh...was it ever announced/leaked it was a tensioning issue as you claim??


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## Bosco DaSkia (Jan 17, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Clearly the reliability leaves a lot to be desired. With no other alternatives to get to the top of Magic, I am glad to be in a hotel 8 miles from Greek Peak.




Holy shit, that’s funny….. Greek Peak and reliable lifts don’t really go together. 


How bad are things at magic that Greek is being held up as a reliable alternative?


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## zoomzoom (Jan 17, 2022)

uh, i'm not "claiming" anything.  my post was for general information { as most of mine are } and nothing more.  try reading before posting snarky little replies.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 17, 2022)

seeing stratton, cannon, killington, and sugarbush all down with wind holds - and i think i saw bromley too? i am thrilled to not be driving and skiing today. yesterday at jay was awesome, first day of all tree skiing bell to bell all season, and got back to nyc area just as snow and driving was starting to be iffy. next weekend should be primo. i'm glad to not be at magic bc i wouldn't want to burn an indy day today, i'm concerned about red staying operational, and with all the local majors down for wind i anticipate magic to be a shitshow. got big eyes on magic next sunday tho.


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## Newpylong (Jan 17, 2022)

zoomzoom said:


> uh, i'm not "claiming" anything.  my post was for general information { as most of mine are } and nothing more.  try reading before posting snarky little replies.



Your post was seemingly random and without pretext. Is there a tensioning issue on Red?


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## ss20 (Jan 17, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Your post was seemingly random and without pretext. Is there a tensioning issue on Red?



Don't be so snarky...asking people to back-up their stories with facts!  Jeeze! /s


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## IceEidolon (Jan 17, 2022)

I'd settle for context with my rumors.

Whatever happened it took most of the day to fix, and they ran the chair unloaded for an hour at the end of the day.


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## NYDB (Jan 17, 2022)

Red ran fine all day today. 5-10 min lines on red from 10am on.  great day.  Nice crowd levels. West side opened like 1:30 ish or so


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## ne_skier (Jan 17, 2022)

Looks like all single blacks have opened up except HOM. Twilight Zone looked to be the only double black open, IIRC it usually opens in thin cover conditions. It will be interesting to see if any more runs open for Thursday-Sunday, perhaps they held off on some to make sure they don't get worn off before all the snow is down. Just guessing


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 17, 2022)

Bosco DaSkia said:


> Holy shit, that’s funny….. Greek Peak and reliable lifts don’t really go together.
> 
> 
> How bad are things at magic that Greek is being held up as a reliable alternative?


First time I had been to Greek but it was awesome today. 8" fresh easily with every lift running and every trail and glade skiable. Not every one was open but there was absolutely no effort made to keep people to the open trails. There were many people on the closed ones all day. Closed seemed to be an alternate name for ungroomed.


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## skiatomic (Jan 17, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Red ran fine all day today. 5-10 min lines on red from 10am on.  great day.  Nice crowd levels. West side opened like 1:30 ish or so


Skied both Red and Green today in afternoon.   All good and happy to be on the hill!!


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## ne_skier (Jan 17, 2022)

Someone I know who was there today said that The Wardrobe was open at some point today, same with Broomstick -> HOM. Hopefully a sign that more dropped ropes are on the way.


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## ne_skier (Jan 17, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> There were many people on the closed ones all day. Closed seemed to be an alternate name for ungroomed.


Same goes for Belleayre and Plattekill


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## thetrailboss (Jan 17, 2022)

Some familiar faces on here.....









						Skiers and riders rejoice as storm hits during holiday weekend
					

Some parts of the region got more than a foot of snow on Monday, which is great news for ski resorts. Our Adam Sullivan reports from Magic Mountain.




					www.wcax.com


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## skithetrees (Jan 18, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Someone I know who was there today said that The Wardrobe was open at some point today, same with Broomstick -> HOM. Hopefully a sign that more dropped ropes are on the way.


Yes, both were open. Trees a bit scratchy but the natural trails on the west side skied surprisingly well for how little snow they have had this year. Snow was a bit weird on the west side as anything that was skied over a few times and flattened down became quite firm. Edgable, but firm. Haven’t seen anything like it in a while. I’m thinking the cold before the storm made the ground so cold it sort of froze the wet snow that got dumped on top once it was compacted. Overall, great day with great skiing.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 19, 2022)

From the Alpine Update, looks like Black is still in the cards for completion this season.

Also, special thanks to our lift mechanics and contractors for getting Red Chair in great shape to access the summit on MLK Monday, and a shout out to Green Lift and its crew for being solid all-season long. Pfister Mountain Services has hired two more lift techs who will begin in about two weeks to help get new sheave assemblies on key towers for the Black Quad. Final parts should be in by then and Pfister is getting me a completion timetable with a goal of completing before the end of this ski season. Red Lift certainly has eaten up dramatically more of Pfister's time than we wanted, but the Quad is never far from our minds and we are still pushing hard for completion--working even under difficult mid-winter conditions.


Lift crew getting us to where we want to go!                                 Red in the snow


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## NYDB (Jan 19, 2022)

skiatomic said:


> Skied both Red and Green today in afternoon.   All good and happy to be on the hill!!


best place to be in Southern VT on mlk Monday for sure.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 23, 2022)

Olol look at this dumb dumb. the one rope you don’t duck. with zero base. lol


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 23, 2022)

I’m not one to repeat runs, I have ocd and it compels me to paint the map red in my tracking app. but the gunpowder on the sides of the talisman wales are fucking amazing and I’m going in for lap 3


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## mtl1076 (Jan 23, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> View attachment 52813Olol look at this dumb dumb. the one rope you don’t duck. with zero base. lol


That's just awful. If you are gonna poach it at least have some skill.


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## ne_skier (Jan 23, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> View attachment 52813Olol look at this dumb dumb. the one rope you don’t duck. with zero base. lol


It's all fun and games until you get impaled by a ski on one of the low hanging chairs


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## ne_skier (Jan 23, 2022)

Saturday was great, loved everything I skied. The untouched powder was pretty thick, but places that have been more skied (Twilight Zone, Goniff) were pretty navigable and had good cover. The less rocky ungroomed runs will definitely stick around for a while. Noticed Red Line is closed today; if I had to guess it has to do with the sizeable dirt patch on Witch after the intersection with Goniff. I'm no snowmaking expert but perhaps they could just aim a gun at that and patch it up.
Obligatory Wizard sunset pic:


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## slatham (Jan 23, 2022)

Thanks for the pics! Wish I could get up there.

Whoever ducked the rope on the upper lifeline of Red - which is not a trail - is beyond stupid. Besides being able to see this area from the lift, this is Magic, they are VERY liberal with opening terrain. If something is closed at Magic, you really do not want to ski it.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 23, 2022)

slatham said:


> Thanks for the pics! Wish I could get up there.
> 
> Whoever ducked the rope on the upper lifeline of Red - which is not a trail - is beyond stupid. Besides being able to see this area from the lift, this is Magic, they are VERY liberal with opening terrain. If something is closed at Magic, you really do not want to ski it.


The waist high water bars across the bottom are a good reason not to duck that rope as well. Plus the fact its a rock cliff with less than a foot of snow covering it.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 23, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Saturday was great, loved everything I skied. The untouched powder was pretty thick, but places that have been more skied (Twilight Zone, Goniff) were pretty navigable and had good cover. The less rocky ungroomed runs will definitely stick around for a while. Noticed Red Line is closed today; if I had to guess it has to do with the sizeable dirt patch on Witch after the intersection with Goniff. I'm no snowmaking expert but perhaps they could just aim a gun at that and patch it up.


In theory it's possible. In single digit weather, though, charging more pipe than you have to, especially if you're only moving 50-60 gpm, is a great way to freeze some pipe. If I were making the calls I wouldn't try it until I was running the East Side again - keep everything on Talisman, Sorcerer, and Wizard and charge/drain as few extra sections of pipe as I could, until it's time to shift everything over.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 23, 2022)

Rock cliff w low snow, low chairs, and huge snowmaking pipes at the bottom lol

Red line is open despite the dirt on the approach. Black line is open from broomstick

On my last lift up. 15k vert today and will be home by 6. Mostly skied on the natural trails. Skied disappearing act, pixie, sceance, kitten, still pretty thin in the woods - did not bother w hallows and wardrobe

Another 8” and we’re cooking w gas


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Jan 23, 2022)

It's unfortunate that the first 3/4 of that upper section under red is IIRC pretty mellow and inviting. I remember doing it once waayy back around '04/05 ish, before Magic's current popularity and before that stretch was an established no-poach, and thinking that while it wasn't miserable I also wouldn't need to repeat it. Sometimes you gotta learn the "hard" way?


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## MG Skier (Jan 24, 2022)

I was at Magic Sunday, what a remarkable difference between two weekends ago. Yay snowmaking team and mother nature for the two prong approach. I hope to get back soon! I spent the morning on my "better" skis and the afternoon on my rock skis! East side lower angle glades were fun. Same can be said for West natural trails.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 24, 2022)

MG Skier said:


> I was at Magic Sunday, what a remarkable difference between two weekends ago. Yay snowmaking team and mother nature for the two prong approach. I hope to get back soon! I spent the morning on my "better" skis and the afternoon on my rock skis! East side lower angle glades were fun. Same can be said for West natural trails.



this weekend was an all rock skis affair, which finally got me the opportunity to drop my dailies off for a tune and base repair


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## ne_skier (Jan 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this weekend was an all rock skis affair


The bottoms of my skis look like a cheese grater after last Saturday. A few inches could be coming down on Saturday to patch up any thin cover spots and keep the steeper stuff (red, green) open.

I noticed the bushes on Upper Magician were pretty tall, do they usually trim those annually or would they just get packed down by the snow? Clearing that run must be akin to rock climbing.


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## MG Skier (Jan 25, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this weekend was an all rock skis affair, which finally got me the opportunity to drop my dailies off for a tune and base repair


I hear ya Krusty...I was on groomers in the morning, I just need to ski more frequently, I didn't want to go all in after not skiing two weeks. In hind sight I should have brought both skis to the base at the same time and switched before lunch at the truck.


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## NYDB (Jan 25, 2022)

Always rock boards at Magic unless its an all groomer day.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 25, 2022)

All my skis are rock skis at this point


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## Magicsnowboard (Jan 25, 2022)

You all know the saying “You can bring whatever skis you like to Magic, but you always leave with your rock skis.”


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 26, 2022)

https://vimeo.com/669693921


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## JoeB-Z (Jan 26, 2022)

"The chair is staying on the cable pretty good today" By the way, that is not easy skiing.


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## RustyGroomer (Jan 26, 2022)

one skier in there Dr, Tomato’s is 76 yrs young.


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## urungus (Jan 29, 2022)

Great day at Magic yesterday, Red ran smoothly all day, ski-on, pretty much everything open, good coverage in the woods.

anyone lose their googles in White Kitten ?


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## urungus (Jan 29, 2022)

Twilight Zone


Broomstick


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## Tonyr (Jan 29, 2022)

urungus said:


> Great day at Magic yesterday, Red ran smoothly all day, ski-on, pretty much everything open, good coverage in the woods.
> 
> anyone lose their googles in White Kitten ?
> 
> View attachment 52888



Saw those goggles in White Kitten today! The trees are a little thin but fun the snow was very nice. It was cold out there.


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## NYDB (Jan 29, 2022)

natural terrain was outstanding today, albeit thin.

 Whatever fell today deposited some nice fluff.  stopped snowing around lunch.  maybe it'll restart for a bit this evening.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 29, 2022)

Guess today was AlpineZone day at Magic. The natural trails on West side were skiing great albeit thin cover. Also gotta love the pile of skis in front of the sign saying not to leave your skis there.


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## NYDB (Jan 29, 2022)




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## jaytrem (Jan 29, 2022)

They need to park a wood chipper next to that sign.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 29, 2022)

If they didn't need the water for the hill I'd say point a rat at the problem - smooth everything over in an hour or two, easy.


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## Newpylong (Jan 29, 2022)

Or just run the cat over them.


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## eatskisleep (Jan 30, 2022)

jaytrem said:


> They need to park a wood chipper next to that sign.


Then toss a few pairs in (old ski rentals that are no longer used of course) would make people think!!


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## ne_skier (Jan 30, 2022)

Likely had something to do with the race event. The lodge was packed yet lift lines were short. The racks at the base were just about filled too, I imagine many of the racers (among others) were not skiing for a lot of the day.
The weather seemed pretty weird too. Either the wind picked up or changed direction around noon and it started getting much colder come the afternoon, or so it felt. Ungroomed was good although it was getting pretty thin, rock skis highly recommended (Watch out for roots too, they can take your legs right out from under you). Hopefully snow is in our future


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 30, 2022)

lovely schussing thru the woods if you know where to look.


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## ThatGuy (Jan 30, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> View attachment 52898lovely schussing thru the woods if you know where to look.


Was that off of Talisman, think I was in the same woods yesterday


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 30, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Was that off of Talisman, think I was in the same woods yesterday


Yes between talisman and sorcerer below the steep part one of my favorite tree skiing Meadows


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## ThatGuy (Jan 30, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Yes between talisman and sorcerer below the steep part one of my favorite tree skiing Meadows


Might be my favorite part of the mountain when conditions are good, that steep part keeps the riff-raff away.


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## urungus (Jan 30, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Might be my favorite part of the mountain when conditions are good, that steep part keeps the riff-raff away.


How does “Wardrobe”, which I believe is the glade you guys are describing, compare to “Warlock” ?  Tried the latter for the first time the other day and found it pretty tough, I fear I am a member of the “riff-raff”


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## ThatGuy (Jan 30, 2022)

urungus said:


> How does “Wardrobe”, which I believe is the glade you guys are describing, compare to “Warlock” ?  Tried the latter for the first time the other day and found it pretty tough, I fear I am a member of the “riff-raff”


I’d say if you had trouble with Warlock then the top part of The Wardrobe would be difficult as well. Try out The Hallows first if you haven’t and see how you feel there.


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## NYDB (Jan 30, 2022)

imo the trees are too thin to ski/ride well.  yes, you can pick your way down them for sure. and sure.  and the flatter sections are better yeah.. But you can't really open it up with confidence. no real charging fall line turns on the steep stuff.    I hit a few this weekend and it was thin.

still under 40" of snow season to date.

rotd was broomstick / blackline.

if you could avoid the rocks on broomstick  you were good to go. nice wind buff on skiers right of BL

hopefully this storm delivers this week.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 2, 2022)




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## IceEidolon (Feb 4, 2022)

So did this precipitation at least get some water back into the pond?


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 4, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> So did this precipitation at least get some water back into the pond?


It had to refill the pond. It was raining all day yesterday over halfway up the mountain and the natural slopes had lost a good deal of snow. The skiing was rather good but they closed the West side quite early. I suspect sweeping the open natural was not going to be a pleasure for the patrol.


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## skithetrees (Feb 4, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> It had to refill the pond. It was raining all day yesterday over halfway up the mountain and the natural slopes had lost a good deal of snow. The skiing was rather good but they closed the West side quite early. I suspect sweeping the open natural was not going to be a pleasure for the patrol.


West side was never open and red never loaded. Apparently a lot of icing on the top towers and bullwheel. That said, skiing off green was surprisingly excellent all day. Far better than what I expected given how the storm turned out.


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## ne_skier (Feb 4, 2022)

Were any lower angle ungroomed runs (Disappearing Act, White Kitten) open? Or was the snow not enough to patch up the ice


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## skithetrees (Feb 4, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Were any lower angle ungroomed runs (Disappearing Act, White Kitten) open? Or was the snow not enough to patch up the ice


Yes and skied great. For the most part they were all buttery smooth and edgable


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## NYDB (Feb 4, 2022)

damn.  kyles got mad skills grooming out upper magician.


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## urungus (Feb 4, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> View attachment 53004
> 
> 
> damn.  kyles got mad skills grooming out upper magician.


LOL, lots of rocks to smooth out … I think they meant to say they groomed Wizard from Magician to Talisman.  What is “Upper Magician” anyway, the small top part above Broomstick is called simply “Magician”, anything below that is “Heart of Magician”


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## ne_skier (Feb 4, 2022)

I think it was referred to as Upper Magician back in the Hans Thorner days and was referred to as Master Magician from Boston Concessions’ ownership through the mid 2000s


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## MG Skier (Feb 4, 2022)

I don’t recall seeing a winch cat anchor at the top of Magician…


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## urungus (Feb 4, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> I think it was referred to as Upper Magician back in the Hans Thorner days and was referred to as Master Magician from Boston Concessions’ ownership through the mid 2000s



Here is 2000-2001 map calling it “Master Magician”. Also note proposed cutoff to be called “Black Magic” from Wizard to Upper Talisman.  Anyone skied that line ?


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## ne_skier (Feb 4, 2022)

I remember a conversation here about that run a year or so ago, that must have been before Black Magic (as it is currently) was a trail, and the upper ledges bit between Broomstick and Witch was called Lucifer. 
Interestingly, Trudy’s Run was also supposed to be a connector trail between LMC and Showoff, instead of what it is now.


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## skithetrees (Feb 4, 2022)

urungus said:


> Here is 2000-2001 map calling it “Master Magician”. Also note proposed cutoff to be called “Black Magic” from Wizard to Upper Talisman.  Anyone skied that line ?
> View attachment 53006



Always liked master magician better. Regarding black magic, no, never …


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## NYDB (Feb 5, 2022)

wow.  better than i expected this am on the open natural terrain.


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## slatham (Feb 5, 2022)

urungus said:


> Here is 2000-2001 map calling it “Master Magician”. Also note proposed cutoff to be called “Black Magic” from Wizard to Upper Talisman.  Anyone skied that line ?
> View attachment 53006


That trail as drawn is currently a cliff area. I will not give out secrets but if anyone should wander into that general area be aware it is extremely steep and tight.

If ever cut, that trail into Talisman would be amazing. Ideally it would be cut or have a spur leading into Sorcerer.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 5, 2022)

Beautiful day today


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## ThatGuy (Feb 5, 2022)




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## NYDB (Feb 5, 2022)

Fun day today.  The low expectations heading in to the day we definitely exceeded.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 5, 2022)

I’m staying in Manchester. The ice on the trees is beautiful today in soVT


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## ne_skier (Feb 5, 2022)

Went into the day thinking it would just be groomers, I was very wrong. Ungroomed did not disappoint.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 5, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Went into the day thinking it would just be groomers, I was very wrong. Ungroomed did not disappoint.


How was Slide of Hans?


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## ne_skier (Feb 5, 2022)

Great in the morning, got a bit more scratchy in the late afternoon but still skiable


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## NYDB (Feb 6, 2022)

great business weekend for the hill.  Rentals, lessons, food, bar, everything looked busy.  Lift lines on green chair even.  Great base for next storm. 

Sorry haters.


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## Abominable (Feb 8, 2022)

@ ne_skier What is that ski app?


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## ne_skier (Feb 8, 2022)

Abominable said:


> @ ne_skier What is that ski app?


Ski Tracks


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> great business weekend for the hill.  Rentals, lessons, food, bar, everything looked busy.  Lift lines on green chair even.  Great base for next storm.
> 
> Sorry haters.



my friend and i went to the BLT for dinner and grateful dead tunes and it was absolutely packed all night


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## JoeB-Z (Feb 10, 2022)

Really great today. The mountain is getting in very good shape. A few inches of natural made all the difference from last weekend. They made snow on the west side and did a fair amount of grooming. Kinderspiel has been tamed! I did my first turn as an ambassador last Saturday on the Red lift line at noon - 2. I'm trying to give back a bit. Business was really strong and I suspect this weekend will be another sellout. Also, people are really hanging in there on Sunday afternoon.


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## MG Skier (Feb 11, 2022)

I’m driving up tomorrow AM anyone skiing Saturday? Looking to ski with some folks. I’m up for anything, just not fast in the woods.


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## Newpylong (Feb 14, 2022)

Snowmaking ongoing on Sorcerer. 

After Thursday's pond "refill" event will they do Witch to Black to say its been done for the first time in an eternity?


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## slatham (Feb 14, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Snowmaking ongoing on Sorcerer.
> 
> After Thursday's pond "refill" event will they do Witch to Black to say its been done for the first time in an eternity?



Interesting question. I'd say it depends on 1) whether the Thursday "pond refilling" necessitates resurfacing existing snowmaking terrain, 2) How much snowmaking budget is left and 3) whether at this late in the game its worth the effort/expense, especially given it wouldn't be done for Presidents weekend.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 14, 2022)

Seconded on priorities. This late in the season they've got to be thinking about getting the most out of this month's sunk costs (IE demand charges) and do they have the depth they need on key trails for the end of the season. 

I wouldn't rule out marketing/thin spot/test run on the new pipe, but I sure don't expect full coverage over there. Grab a couple tripods and 200' of hose, hike in, cover the thin spots with some fluff, get a guy with a camera in there at dawn. While running HKDs with most of your capacity somewhere else.


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## Newpylong (Feb 14, 2022)

That line is extremely long, there is likely not enough pumping capacity to make show snow with a couple guns and have adequate flow for high production somewhere else.

It is getting late in the season for sure, but they've put a base down on the West Side the last week in February before. Only reason I even mentioned it  They sing to a different tune than most others lol.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 14, 2022)

Upper Magic Carpet or maybe feeding down Trick and Witch simultaneously? As long as you keep below max load on the pump while hitting the target pressure that ought to be okay. You lose another couple dozen GPM out the bottom of Witch / the end of that line to keep things from freezing up plus say 50 to 150 GPM from four guns, then the remainder goes out hydrants on UMC or down Trick.

You absolutely have more experience than I do running systems with isolation valves, but I've never seen a problem running a couple guns in an isolated spot absent a bottleneck somewhere that I don't believe exists here. I have seen problems where a section of pipe is too small for full flow, but I believe UMC can handle what the main pump can feed it. I've seen low water pressure when too much water is drawn from a line, but only when that line was undersized for the number of guns running. I would expect feeding 150 GPM down Witch would be the same as running the same guns off hydrants up by Red's bullwheel.

I agree that pushing water to the summit just for those couple guns is impractical, but if UMC is going to be charged anyway...

And I'm not saying you're wrong here, I want to see if there's a constraint in the plumbing I'm not aware of or if I just wasn't clear that I assumed they'd make some stockpile snow at the summit at some point and test Witch then.


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## Newpylong (Feb 14, 2022)

I think youre correct on most of that but you're also not taking other design factors such as friction and head loss, and most importantly velocity into consideration. So it isn't as simple as splitting a 1,000 gallons per minute amongst two lines.

If they don't have enough water pressure to run Low-E at the top as it is, it is unlikely they can maintain operating pressure on both simultaneously regardless of how the withdrawel is split.

We had a similar pumping capacity and at times charged multiple lines near the summit (sized appropriately) and at well below nominal flow rates we could barely maintain 200 PSI. As soon you try to charge that much more steel the physics change.

So in summary, if Witch is top fed (I think it is), I don't think they would be able to withdraw much water on the upline.

Last year Sorcerer and LMC came back to life, this year Vertigo. Maybe next will be Witch to Black? Mystery after that? Bringing stuff back from the dead is awesome. I love to see it, options are good!


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## slatham (Feb 14, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I think youre correct on most of that but you're also not taking other design factors such as friction and head loss, and most importantly velocity into consideration. So it isn't as simple as splitting a 1,000 gallons per minute amongst two lines.
> 
> If they don't have enough water pressure to run Low-E at the top as it is, it is unlikely they can maintain operating pressure on both simultaneously regardless of how the withdrawel is split.
> 
> ...



All I know is the section of pipe on steep section of Black Line has a dead end drain right around the crossover from HOM. They’ve used the section below this to blow snow from there down into Hocus Pocus for the speed comp. So this lower section is not part of the “newly online” Witch/Blackline.

So my guess is Witch/Blackline is fed from upstreaming from East side and the down W/BL (though can’t rule out upstreaming via Wizard). I am pretty sure that - as once explained to me by DW - there is not a full circular flow up East/down West (or vice versa).


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## Newpylong (Feb 14, 2022)

This is where mechanical maps are fun vs guessing


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## ThatGuy (Feb 17, 2022)

The rain and wind are doing a number on alot of trails. Really hope we get a good dump soon.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 17, 2022)

Hit every open natural trail I could today. Probably the last time for a while that will be possible.


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2022)

Magic (and BLT) closed for the day due to a Londonderry-wide power outage w/ no estimate of when power will be restored; they are also reporting heavy snow loss. Road to Ruin has been postponed to the 5th, 2 weeks from Saturday. 
Bromley is opening late due to heavy snowpack loss and “hopes” to reopen at 11


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## ThatGuy (Feb 18, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Magic (and BLT) closed for the day due to a Londonderry-wide power outage w/ no estimate of when power will be restored; they are also reporting heavy snow loss. Road to Ruin has been postponed to the 5th, 2 weeks from Saturday.
> Bromley is opening late due to heavy snowpack loss and “hopes” to reopen at 11


After what I saw yesterday I’ll be surprised if theres even a base left on a lot of trails. Tomorrow will be interesting.


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## ne_skier (Feb 18, 2022)

Black Line and HOM were nearly bare when we drove past this morning. If I had to guess, they’ll be down to snowmaking trails only, perhaps with some low angle non-snowmaking runs


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## slatham (Feb 18, 2022)

Weather has been a cluster f*#!.....starting over on natural trails in late Feb? Better be a March to remember or this winter will be one to forget. Glad they've expanded snowmaking terrain. Not too long ago they'd be down to Trick to Show Off.


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## Magicsnowboard (Feb 23, 2022)

Could have been worse. There wasn’t much natural snow to lose. Snowmaking trails look like they lost a bunch but will be skiable.  Photos at 8:45 am on 2/23. Props to DoWork and his team for getting as many snowmaking trails open this year, we’d be f***d otherwise. At least there will be some trails (with base) to ski when winter returns.


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## Newpylong (Feb 23, 2022)

Can only get kicked in the crotch so many times.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 24, 2022)

‘Sorry Stoli lovers’: Magic Mountain dumps Russian vodka
					

Magic Mountain Ski Area tweeted a video on Thursday showing its bar pouring Russian vodka down the drain.




					www.wcax.com


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## NYDB (Feb 24, 2022)

be cautious out there the next couple days.  this is the current base on natural trails.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 24, 2022)

This was Goniff last Thursday so I’d hate to see it now.


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## MG Skier (Feb 24, 2022)

I’ll stick to open trails, but thanks for the heads up!


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## skithetrees (Feb 24, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> be cautious out there the next couple days.  this is the current base on natural trails.
> 
> View attachment 53299





ThatGuy said:


> View attachment 53300
> This was Goniff last Thursday so I’d hate to see it now.


Unbelievable.  I left Tuesday and there was at least some snow. I can’t think of a worse February.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Feb 24, 2022)

skithetrees said:


> Unbelievable.  I left Tuesday and there was at least some snow. I can’t think of a worse February.


Til tonight - tomorrow. And first week got a big storm too.


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## skithetrees (Feb 24, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Til tonight - tomorrow. And first week got a big storm too.


True, but when was the last time we started from dirt in february


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## cdskier (Feb 24, 2022)

skithetrees said:


> True, but when was the last time we started from dirt in february


More often/recently than you probably realize...

In my Facebook memories today popped up a photo of completely bare ground seen everywhere around my condo from 4 years ago (compared to today where there were at least a few piles/spots of snow on the ground). Also 5 years ago today per FB memories I was complaining about it hitting 80 degrees on the Thruway in NY a good part of my drive up to VT.


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## NYDB (Feb 25, 2022)

Where was everybody today? (Probably someplace with more terrain open, I get it)

 30 second wait on red most of day.  Cold and snowy.  not as aggressive opening low angle east side natural as expected.  

tough to tell how much snow fell.  10” maybe?  probably more up top.  It was snowing pretty solid all day

overall A solid low tide powder day you’d expect to have around New Years not end of feb.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 25, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Where was everybody today? (Probably someplace with more terrain open, I get it)
> 
> 30 second wait on red most of day.  Cold and snowy.  not as aggressive opening low angle east side natural as expected.
> 
> ...


Went to West today, still here. They got at least 12” still snowing pretty heavy too. Will be at Magic tomorrow for first chair, hopefully some more low angle stuff is opened.


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## Newpylong (Feb 25, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Where was everybody today? (Probably someplace with more terrain open, I get it)
> 
> 30 second wait on red most of day.  Cold and snowy.  not as aggressive opening low angle east side natural as expected.
> 
> ...



Working....it's a Friday.


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## NYDB (Feb 26, 2022)

crazy busy today.  did six laps on red, 1 on green and bailed before lunch.    great conditions
 super low tide. they were parking in lot c when I was leaving


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## ThatGuy (Feb 26, 2022)

Busiest day of the year so far.
Got first tracks on Broomstick>HoM and was also early on Goniff. My skis are not thanking me for the trails I went down though. By last chair the ice was pretty well exposed in alot of spots, but nothing grooming can’t remedy. One real storm and we’re rocking and rolling as long as no more melts come for a while.


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## NYDB (Mar 3, 2022)

What is the plan for the black lift this off season?  Anyone know?


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## IceEidolon (Mar 3, 2022)

Last we heard, the plan was "as soon as our contractors have time".


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## Newpylong (Mar 3, 2022)

More info in the Alpine Update today.


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## NYDB (Mar 3, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> More info in the Alpine Update today.


Oh I missed that.  It looks like Pfister is lined up to finish this spring.


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## MG Skier (Mar 3, 2022)

Nice!


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 3, 2022)

Bummer to read that they are done with snowmaking after tomorrow, though not a surprise


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## IceEidolon (Mar 4, 2022)

I'm shocked they're running any electricity for snowmaking in March - though maybe their electric billing doesn't penalise them for demand as harshly as some?


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## NYSnowflake (Mar 4, 2022)

Magic mountain is doing fundraising for Ukraine this weekend  . $10 from every lift ticket sold is going to Ukraine and any donations made at the bar or the box office will be matched by magic. Pretty cool.


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## Newpylong (Mar 4, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I'm shocked they're running any electricity for snowmaking in March - though maybe their electric billing doesn't penalise them for demand as harshly as some?


Or they've just accepted it's part of the cost of doing business however crappy Demand changes are. But yes, their rate structure with GMP could include items such as Off-Peak demand or other rate saving possibilities that are allowing them to lessen the pain.

We always used to say, as soon as those pumps or compressors are on for 15 minutes in a new month, you're getting it so you better plan on using them lol.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 5, 2022)

Beautiful day to be skiing


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## MG Skier (Mar 7, 2022)

I arrived yesterday to lot A and I was one of less than 20 cars. After 4 runs that were a little wet, lot A was still empty. Magic skied great but once the sun hit the runouts were vicious on the legs. I still managed to ski 15 miles. Hoping they see snow of ANY amount. Significant melting yesterday, I still had fun! Nice and quiet!


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## NYDB (Mar 7, 2022)

10 day looks bleak.  I have to say I am amazed the mountain has held up this well with 60'' of snow season to date (with multiple harsh meltdowns)

As an aside, this seems like the new normal average to me in So Vt.  80'' of snow more or less in a season.  I don't know how Stratton still posts average snowfall of 180'' per year.  Maybe 100'' average for Stratton and 80'' for Magic seems like the new average. Snowfall totals like that call for a lot of snowmaking.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 7, 2022)

Glad I finally got to experience Magic for one day 8 days ago.  As someone who could only get there on a weekend, the likely impact of upcoming rains and refreezes means it is I will not likely make it there again this season. And really not sure how much more use I will make of my IndyPass at all. Can't say Catamount looks a lot more promising and who knows if Waterville/Cannon/Saddleback will have anything worth skiing or even be open by the time we could get that far over a spring break that starts April 9.


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## MG Skier (Mar 7, 2022)

I just read the ski report. I had mentioned to my girlfriend when I got home that I hoped it wasn't my last trip for the season. I might have to cave in and go WAY north.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 7, 2022)

Seeing the mountain on Thursday is for sure going to be a shocker after this weather. Hopefully we can make it till the end of March (not looking good).


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## MG Skier (Mar 7, 2022)

Well, I certainly got some spring skiing in yesterday! Lets hope March steps up to the plate. (Sorry MLB fans.)


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 8, 2022)

I see little signs (no day ticket sales) that Magic will not be open this Thursday. Kind of a bummer as I have to pick up my stuff to go elsewhere. Anyone have the lowdown?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 8, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> I see little signs (no day ticket sales) that Magic will not be open this Thursday. Kind of a bummer as I have to pick up my stuff to go elsewhere. Anyone have the lowdown?


Their Website snow report states:
"Sunday’s rain then 65 degree temps and high 40 mph  warm winds throughout the night pounded the mtn. Then came Monday…more heavy rain and warm 50+ mph winds. It’s pretty ugly. The snowmaking trails have lost significant coverage and the summit is extremely thin with pond ice or dirt. For now, we will remain closed on Thursday and evaluate what we can do to piece it back together for Friday and the weekend. Wednesday afternoon we expect 1-3″ and Saturday’s storm keeps trending east and colder which would be good for us if that trend continued. Currently a mix of snow/rain, but latest models are pushing to a possible 6″+ type storm. But honestly, the models have sucked this year so we live on the edge. As always our operations team will do whatever it takes to get us out skiing and riding whether from Green lift or the Red Summit lift."

It.is not sounding very promising and I would likely make plans to ski elsewhere the rest of this season. It will take a surprisingly big storm for them to have much open this weekend as I read that, and I doubt they will make it past this weekend.

My guess is the best skiing in S.Vt going forward will be Carinthia area of Mt Snow, where they are doing lots of snowmaking to extend the season. Though I don't find Csrinthia area exciting enough to warrant a drive from NJ to S.Vt.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 8, 2022)

All of VT got nuked from the rain and wind these last two days. Not gonna be pretty anywhere and Magic was already looking rough unfortunately. Hopefully Saturday delivers for another fun weekend or two of skiing. Then its time to go North (maybe all the way to Santa) if you want a decent amount of snow.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 8, 2022)

Got it and thanks. I need to just start carrying my core gear in the car. I have avoided Mt. Snow but I have an Epic weekday pass.


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## Newpylong (Mar 9, 2022)

Was blown away how much snow Killington lost even on snowmaking trails. Lot of dirt poking through all over on the thinner ones.


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## drjeff (Mar 9, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Was blown away how much snow Killington lost even on snowmaking trails. Lot of dirt poking through all over on the thinner ones.


The multiple monsoon events that have happened over the last 3 weeks or so, even with the snow events in between, have just been brutal to both the depth and surface to base make up of what snowpack is still there.  Ugh


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## ne_skier (Mar 15, 2022)

To anyone who was at Magic last weekend, what is the snowpack on snowmaking trails like? I have to imagine that the recent snow helped to an extent. Unfortunately it looks like a couple rain events with warm temps this week and the same thing next week as well, if it's as low as the pictures on the Alpine Update depict I wouldn't be surprised if this weekend is the last hurrah for Magic's winter, at least from the summit.
On the bright side though, it looks like work has restarted on the Black lift, with some sheave trains having gone up. Hopefully this gets done in time for line/electrical work to be completed over the summer, and we can have shorter lift lines and redundancy for next winter. With a reliable secondary summit lift, Magic's main-mountain lift infrastructure should be solid for a good while.


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 15, 2022)

Agree on the snow. It looks really rough to sustain skiing beyond Sunday. Of course, the snow is incredibly dense. Even softened, it will not be much fun.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 15, 2022)

Skiing beyond this weekend seems like a pipe dream. Pretty rough season overall, still had some good days but barely made it into the woods (or most of west side).


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## slatham (Mar 15, 2022)

I was not up so I do not have great insight into snowpack. But from what I saw pre-meltdown, and heard/read post meltdown, they will need some help to get past this weekend. The next 5 days do not seem to be friendly. Beyond that its too early to call. A continuation of the roller coaster into a colder/snowy pattern next week would be well timed, and likely required. Fingers crossed.


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## NYDB (Mar 15, 2022)

I was not up this weekend, but my family was.

My wife says based on 10 day, she feels this will be the last weekend from the summit.    Maybe they will piece something together from green chair for 3/26 weekend.

It was the winter of having a decent base for the 'next storm' .  The next storm just turned out to be an inch of rain most of the time.

Never got into any steep trees all year.  Did have a day or 2 with decent low angle tree skiing though.

Blackline, Goniff, Twilight and Slide were the only double blacks I was on all year. 

I hope i'm wrong, but I feel like these 80-90'' seasons are kinda the new norm.  It maybe the time to head north quite a bit.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 15, 2022)

i dont mind 'donating' to magic in the form of my sunday pass, but i am def bummed to underutilize it and i may not buy it again, since I'll get 2 + a discount day via indy. i can a la carte other days i guess.


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## ne_skier (Mar 15, 2022)

I managed to hit all of the blacks/double blacks (trees included) except for the Green Line glades, Voodoo, and the 3 double blacks which did not open this season: Pitch Black, Black Magic and Magician.
I wouldn’t say this was a warm winter in general, as January was some of the coldest skiing I’ve done south of Jay. Unfortunately, with a couple exceptions, every time we got potential for precipitation it brought warm southern air with it and we got rained out. I wouldn’t say this season was trashed by the lack of snow, but rather the presence of rain. Those two things do pretty much go hand in hand however.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 15, 2022)

NYDB said:


> It was the winter of having a decent base for the 'next storm' . The next storm just turned out to be an inch of rain most of the time.


Perfect way to sum this season up.
January was cold as the North Pole but no snow then we get a rain event every time we’re supposed to have snow.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 15, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i dont mind 'donating' to magic in the form of my sunday pass, but i am def bummed to underutilize it and i may not buy it again, since I'll get 2 + a discount day via indy. i can a la carte other days i guess.


Save a couple hundred that way most likely. Especially with how winters have been trending recently in SoVt.


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## MG Skier (Mar 16, 2022)

I skied Sunday 3/13, and I have to say that Magic really went the extra mile to give a great product last weekend.  I am thinking in line with you folks that I need to get another day in over the weekend while I can. I did very little tree skiing this year. For the record Disappearing Act was not much fun Sunday with no base under the snow, but I "skied" it. Who knows, maybe March goes out like a Lion..? Grrrrrr?


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## JimG. (Mar 16, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i dont mind 'donating' to magic in the form of my sunday pass, but i am def bummed to underutilize it and i may not buy it again, since I'll get 2 + a discount day via indy. i can a la carte other days i guess.


You realize if you do that it will be a record snowfall year at Magic next season right?


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## ThatGuy (Mar 16, 2022)

MG Skier said:


> I skied Sunday 3/13, and I have to say that Magic really went the extra mile to give a great product last weekend.  I am thinking in line with you folks that I need to get another day in over the weekend while I can. I did very little tree skiing this year. For the record Disappearing Act was not much fun Sunday with no base under the snow, but I "skied" it. Who knows, maybe March goes out like a Lion..? Grrrrrr?


Would love to end the season with a bang but unfortunately the 10-day doesn’t look good for Magic (or most of the East Coast).
Hope next year is more snowy but as @NYDB said it seems like this is the new trend for SoVT.


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## slatham (Mar 16, 2022)

There is a glimmer of hope IF Magic can survive this weeks warm and wet, and IF the models continue to trend cooler. There is a storm mid next week that could go the white way - and of course might not. But there is hope right now. IMHO they would need more snow - not just cold - next week to pull off  an opening the weekend of March 26th.


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## drjeff (Mar 16, 2022)

These mid March melt fests are becoming the new norm as opposed to the former "snowiest month" marketing spin for March unfortnately.

Seems like mother nature gets real ugly for too long in March lately and then, after it;s too late for many resorts, gets back to some "normal" temps and maybe even a snow event or 2 once it's too late for many.... ugh


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## ne_skier (Mar 16, 2022)

Some stuff regarding the rest of the season and the work done on Black Line today.




__





						Alpine Update
					





					mailchi.mp


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## Newpylong (Mar 16, 2022)

The work seems more extensive than previously mentioned (3 towers?).

I would love to know if the Engineer who originally did the profile warned that the existing sheave assemblies may not work with the new profile (and Magic proceeded anyway with hopes for the best), or if these issues only presented themselves once tension (weight from the chairs) was added.

I've never heard of that many sheaves needing to be swapped out post install. I wonder if it's the same engineer who botched our T-Bar install, there aren't many in New England.


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## slatham (Mar 16, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I would love to know if the Engineer who originally did the profile warned that the existing sheave assemblies may not work with the new profile (and Magic proceeded anyway with hopes for the best), or if these issues only presented themselves once tension (weight from the chairs) was added.


The later...


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## NYDB (Mar 17, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I've never heard of that many sheaves needing to be swapped out post install.


Yeah as a lay person reading the alpine update I was a bit bemused.  Someone needs a new t square.  

That many seems like quite a miscalculation.


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## Newpylong (Mar 17, 2022)

slatham said:


> The later...


I figured, especially because the Tramway board scrutinizes plans when they are presented to them if there are any questionable design areas. Probably outta review the engineer's license for calling that profile plan good huh (and adding who knows how much in additional install expense that could have been factored into the initial install and not post install modifications)?  The whole thing is mindboggling, I am sure there is more to the story.

Regardless, it will be a great day when it's done.


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## reefer (Mar 17, 2022)

I would go tomorrow. luckily the sun stayed in until now but it is poking out and warming up. skiing on what's open is great! maybe 25 people skiing. nice touch on the ice wall! took some effort. could see that from bromley!


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## ThatGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

Not much snow left but its a great day


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## reefer (Mar 17, 2022)

I'm in a long trail sweatshirt. no hat or helmet. shades.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

Think I saw you if you’re a boarder. I just headed out when the rain came.


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## Newpylong (Mar 17, 2022)

Based on forecast, that's all she wrote Sunday maybe?


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## ThatGuy (Mar 17, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Based on forecast, that's all she wrote Sunday maybe?


Might be done after today its rough and the rains coming down. Either way this weekend is the end 100%.


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## reefer (Mar 17, 2022)

in the bar. there is light snizzle/drizle. agree on this w/e seems to be it.


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## slatham (Mar 17, 2022)

Its been a tough year for Magic, would have been out of character for it dump and get cold in March. Hope we up cycle next season to an "old fashioned" winter where normal people are screaming that there's too much snow.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 18, 2022)

March 18 9am Update: Glacial freeze on Talisman and Trick overnight so while they will eventually soften up by Noon, we will be putting a groomer on them this morning to open them up by 10AM with a couple passes on each. This will probably be the last day for summit skiing with the loss of snowpack after today’s high temps, and so we will shift operations to Green Lift this weekend. Summit is advanced-only. True ski the east conditions with everything–firm, ice bulges, thin cover, patches of ground, then fun softer conditions as day goes on with high temps and sunny skies Beginners use the conveyor lift today. Ski it while you can!


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## JoeB-Z (Mar 18, 2022)

Going up to ski what's there and pull my gear from my locker. Time for plan B.


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## MG Skier (Mar 18, 2022)

I am hoping for one more day at Magic this weekend. If Ullr shows up with some snow I'll hope for a few more. Bummer on upper mountain being fried, but I get it. 
Here's  to the green lift!


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## ne_skier (Mar 18, 2022)

March 18 5:00PM Update: We’re going to make another go of summit access and the West Side for tomorrow. Not a guarantee as we don’t know what happens tonight. But we will continue our farming efforts. Green Lift will also be running either way.


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## ne_skier (Mar 19, 2022)

Summit is open today with the typical East Side snowmaking trails (Medium, UMC, Trick) as well as the west side with Upper Wizard to Talisman. Thin cover but still doable, beware of dense fog. Talisman has been a blast so far.


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## slatham (Mar 19, 2022)

Magic trying for summit again tomorrow. Apparently they’ve gotten pretty good at snow farming.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 19, 2022)

Really respect the gargantuan effort from Ops and Ski Patrol to keep the mountain open for us. Probably will go up for a few laps to end the season.


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## ne_skier (Mar 22, 2022)

Skied everything open on Saturday, turned out to be fun spring skiing despite the rain. Looks like Magic is planning to defy odds and open again next weekend from mid mountain w/ spring fling festivities (Green Chair flamingo toss, band at T-Bar). Looks like Saturday’s weather could be a bit less rainy than last weekend.


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## NYDB (Mar 22, 2022)

18 summit laps at magic is a full fucking day.   hats off. 

 If I go all day and just take a quick lunch / coffee break I usually max out at around 15 runs.


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## MG Skier (Mar 22, 2022)

Wow ne skier! That is indeed a TON of laps. BRAVO!


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## Newpylong (Mar 22, 2022)

Must be some young legs right there lol.


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## ThatGuy (Mar 22, 2022)

18 laps has gotta be top 1% for Magic. Full day right there, pretty impressive.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 22, 2022)

mostly impressive bc the lift is so damn slow. 1500 vert x 18 runs = 27000 vert. 27000 is a typical day for me at a place with high speed lifts. at magic i tend to get about 15000 because its usually sunday and I'm out of there at 1:30 PM


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## RustyGroomer (Mar 22, 2022)

C'mon guys,  his lazy ass spent nearly 4 hours simply sitting on the chair!  



J/k  Impressive feat.


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## ne_skier (Mar 22, 2022)

I typically got in around 15ish runs skiing the whole day with a quick lunch break this season. Expecting that to go up once the Black lift is in working order and lift lines are very much diminished. My usual routine is one or two groomers in the morning followed by ungroomed till 4, granted there's natural snow.


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## MG Skier (Mar 23, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> I typically got in around 15ish runs skiing the whole day with a quick lunch break this season. Expecting that to go up once the Black lift is in working order and lift lines are very much diminished. My usual routine is one or two groomers in the morning followed by ungroomed till 4, granted there's natural snow.


I don't have those legs either!


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## ne_skier (Apr 7, 2022)

Today's Alpine Update with regards to summer projects on the lift and snowmaking fronts:
- *Complete the Quad Summit Lift*, finally! This lift doubles our lift capacity for almost zero lift lines and adds redundancy to the top if one lift needed to be taken out of service for a bit. We all know how important that can be! Pfister has already been working on the newly manufactured lift parts since early March and has installed new sheave assemblies on Towers 4, 5, and 11. Four more towers will get new sheaves per the engineering re-design (Towers 6, 7, 8, 18) and Tower 13  gets a tower arm adjustment. All done by Pfister's crew this spring. 
- *Complete the new handle tow lift* install in the expanded beginner area with surface re-grading.
- *Expand the snowmaking pond* with new dam (doubling its water volume for snowmaking) and create state-required continuous stream flow around the pond to enhance the nearby river tributary system.
- *New larger volume pipe replacement from pond to pumphouse *to gain significant snowmaking efficiencies
- *New snowmaking pipe replacement* in critical areas with repetitive ruptures due to old pipe (this will be ongoing upgrades over subsequent years as well)
- *Connect pump at Thompsonburg Brook for snowmaking pond water replenishment. *


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## Newpylong (Apr 7, 2022)

For some reason I thought the River pump was already online as they rebuilt the motor and put in a VFD as I recall when they did the same in the main pumphouse a few years back. Guess not...


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## slatham (Apr 8, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> For some reason I thought the River pump was already online as they rebuilt the motor and put in a VFD as I recall when they did the same in the main pumphouse a few years back. Guess not...


I thought so too. I know they did a lot of work with intake area, pump house and pump. Could be it needs to be “re” connected due to pond work.

Very curious about the increased pipe capacity from pond to main pump house. I presume this would allow 300 and 400 line to run full out simultaneously. Or is there added capacity for future improvements up the hill?

Do Work, you out there?


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## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2022)

Bigger the better, especially of they ever want to add pump capacity. Right now IMHO it's about half of what a hill with that much snowmaking acreage should be able to pump.


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## JoeB-Z (Apr 9, 2022)

Any idea why so much on hill piping was built out way back without enough supporting infrastructure down below? Was some of that lost in the dark ages?


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## IceEidolon (Apr 9, 2022)

Was it the River pump or the Pond pump that got the upgrades a while back? 

I believe they're not too far from running both 300 and 400 wide open simultaneously, but they clearly hit bottlenecks both in pond capacity and in water to the hill - though at different points in the season. Hopefully a 2" or more increase in supply pipe diameter means a future third main mountain pump is in the cards.


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## ss20 (Apr 9, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> Any idea why so much on hill piping was built out way back without enough supporting infrastructure down below? Was some of that lost in the dark ages?



Air was always the limiting factor til 15 years ago


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## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2022)

All 3 pumps (pond plus main) were rebuilt and given VFDs. 

Magic, like Wildcat, was built out with far more snowmaking acreage than they could conceivably cover in any given season. They keep repairing pipe and adding terrain, but something else always needs to give to cover it. They also do not make snow on Middle Wizard, and Mystery has yet to be restored, both of which would add even more.

A few years back when I was doing the calculations for adding a new pump for us I did the coverage calculations for Magic and they'd need to move up from whatever they are at now (1200 GPM or so) to closer to 3,000 GPM to be able to cover it all from mid November to mid January. That's a typical cost effective snowmaking season. We all know Magic usually keeps going well into February to get the last terrain they want. They ideally would need to add a booster station or greatly increase discharge pressure at the main house to get good pressure and volume higher up.

This is obviously not to discredit the work done whatsoever, just adding some data to the topic. 

Does anyone know the drop from the pond to the pumphouse? That makes all the difference in the world if you are gravity feeding your wet pits.


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## IceEidolon (Apr 9, 2022)

I was under the impression that the pond feed enters the pumphouse at ~150psi. What wet pit pumps are we talking about?

If they can stop running out of water in the middle of cold snaps they'll probably get Middle Wizard (There's some older HKD towers there and Impulse sleds can cover the bottom half, it just needs two cold days from top of Sorcerer with big air and two more with the Impulse fleet) just from not losing a week plus of prime snowmaking in January. 

Do you think Mystery gets brought back before Witch runs? What'd be your strategy to balance between air hogs up near the summit versus low E sleds down low?


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## IceEidolon (Apr 9, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Air was always the limiting factor til 15 years ago


Even now and even with the new electric compressors, in marginal air's still the limiting factor. Unless you somehow get 50 Impulses started in marginal temps (~750 GPM using all 5000 CFM). With any reasonable setup there'll be at least a couple Ratniks running, and that'll really cut your GPM. Once it gets cold enough to throw valves, especially Valve 3 where the Impulse goes from 100 to 20 CFM, then they're definitely short on water.


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## ss20 (Apr 9, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Air was always the limiting factor til 15 years ago



I'm sorry I thought I was in the Sunday River thread when I posted this.


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## IceEidolon (Apr 9, 2022)

I was a bit curious what had changed 15 years ago at Magic as compared to the last ~6 ish years.


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## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I was under the impression that the pond feed enters the pumphouse at ~150psi. What wet pit pumps are we talking about?
> 
> If they can stop running out of water in the middle of cold snaps they'll probably get Middle Wizard (There's some older HKD towers there and Impulse sleds can cover the bottom half, it just needs two cold days from top of Sorcerer with big air and two more with the Impulse fleet) just from not losing a week plus of prime snowmaking in January.
> 
> Do you think Mystery gets brought back before Witch runs? What'd be your strategy to balance between air hogs up near the summit versus low E sleds down low?



In the main pumphouse that is gravity fed from the pond. 150 PSI seems on the high side given how little apparent drop there is but I don't know enough about the setup to say either way. If the drop is 20 feet a 10" pipe would yield enough volume for both pumps. Maybe the drop is less or it's currently only 8"?

I don't know if Middle Wizard would even be on the list if they could do it. Wizard currently seems to just be utilized for access to and out of the West Side. Though IMHO Wizard T2B is a legit fun run I can see the hesitation on putting precious hours on it?

I don't know re: Mystery, but I would say since Witch is supposedly done we may see that first?


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## slatham (Apr 9, 2022)

Some snow was made on middle Wizard this winter. And several winters ago had solid coverage IIRC.

Mystery only has pipe to just short of green lift, so top 1/3 only. It’s also been pilfered over the years for hydrants etc. Not sure if it’s been tested/repaired but I know it is not a priority over Witch/Blackline. That one is top of list to add, and given short windows these past years they need more water to work through to get to it.

Also pretty sure maim pump house is a wet pit given video Do Work sent me once when they started it up on November.


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## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2022)

Really? I did get to Magic on a whim once this season and I noticed no man-made below Sorcerer or above where it came back in. It was after snowmaking ended for the year.

This is what Do Work had to say about Mystery: Mystery has pipes and the air line is live, but the water was disconnected many many years ago, and it has a lot of breaks to repair too. That will also be likely brought back online this summer though, as it's a great trail in a great spot for snowmaking to happen. Having that way down under Green would be great, and having enough snow to tame the waterbars on the runout would be really nice, as they are aggressive.

Sounds like it'll take some repairs and extending it if it deadheads near Green Line.

Yes they are wet pit pumps, they have to be if they aren't boosting (which would be can pumps).


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## ne_skier (Apr 10, 2022)

Does Kinderspiel have snowmaking that simply goes unused, or is it natural only? That could be a good candidate for snowmaking some time down the road. It skis great when groomed, which as of now requires a high-snow winter.


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## Newpylong (Apr 10, 2022)

No snowmaking, but they applied for adding it as part of another ACT 250 permit a while back. Would be a perfect trail for it, but same scenario: something else would need to give without additional water capacity.


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## IceEidolon (Apr 10, 2022)

I know for a fact the main pumps are uphill of the pond pump, and the pressure of the supply line is approximately 150 psi at the pumphouse.

If they have the water supply, Mystery would be prime portable low E terrain where Witch emphatically isn't - but I agree that actually opening that trail without natural would take 3000'+ of new pipe. I also agree that Witch/Black Line ought to be higher priorities than bringing Mystery back.


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## Newpylong (Apr 10, 2022)

Then they have a third pumphouse (at the pond feeding the main house) that I was unaware of. I thought that was just gravity fed.

Witch is going to be interesting. Water pressure aside, without owning Viper tripods that's gonna be Rat territory. If they have enough I'd stage them in the off season as that won't be fun to get equipment down in winter.

I think we need to ask DoWork pretty please for an inside tour this off season so he can show us all the make Magic better stuff we always talk about.


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## slatham (Apr 10, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Then they have a third pumphouse (at the pond feeding the main house) that I was unaware of. I thought that was just gravity fed.
> 
> Witch is going to be interesting. Water pressure aside, without owning Viper tripods that's gonna be Rat territory. If they have enough I'd stage them in the off season as that won't be fun to get equipment down in winter.
> 
> I think we need to ask DoWork pretty please for an inside tour this off season so he can show us all the make Magic better stuff we always talk about.


Yes there is a pump at the pond. It is downhill of main pump house for certain. They refurbished the pump this past offseason.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Apr 10, 2022)

I'll be psyched to see Black get finished, but I don't plan to ride it until after it has run safely for a season.


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## IceEidolon (Apr 11, 2022)

Witch/Black is the only place I can think of that has snowmaking, is too steep to easily use portables, and doesn't already have permanent towers. Trick, Talisman, Sorcerer, Medium, and the turns on middle Wizard all have towers. 

I'm sure you're aware that the guns would be cheap relative to planting even Ratnik's small 2.5" posts for new Baby SG2 towers, even though those towers are basically the perfect gun for that trail (unless it gets water pressure for Vipers).


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## Newpylong (Apr 11, 2022)

Sadly despite working with closely with Ratnik on both engineering and other procurements, I never got the chance to use one of their guns. Our air hogs were K2000s, K3000, SR7s and Omichrons. The Baby SG2s look pretty sweet though. 

Pat's Peak has these movable booms with 10 foot Impulses on them which I think would be great on steeper and narrow runs like Witch, on top of any clearance restricted run like a liftline for that matter. You can see them here below the lift: 



  Never seen them anywhere else.


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## machski (Apr 11, 2022)

^^^^I wonder if those swing arms are custom designed at Pat's by Pat's.  Looks like the Impulses are just the usual sized sled towers without the sled attached to the boom arms.


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 11, 2022)

Roundtop has a few of those arms shown above.  I think you can buy those from HKD.


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## Newpylong (Apr 11, 2022)

It would seem you are correct: https://www.hkdsnowmakers.com/add-ons/

Under "Boom".

All the more weird you don't see more of them, they are super convenient looking.


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## IceEidolon (Apr 12, 2022)

I demoed one with a Viper setup and shared some frank opinions with our HKD rep. They're incredibly niche - in very nearly all circumstances you can do 95% of the work with less equipment and less hassle with an equally tall tower, and with a normal jack you can still reach the controls when it's swung downhill. You can swing it uphill out of the way without hitting snow. You don't need a 10' radius arc of trees cleared to swing the gun off the trail. Your existing posts won't suddenly move further away from your hydrants so you need double hoses. There are a couple places where the arms do make sense, but they have some real tradeoffs if you don't absolutely have to point a gun straight down/straight up a trail. 

There's another version with a Viper head that has an adjustable height boom and is rigged for Klik hoses, where the only controls you can't reach are the swivel and elevation of the Viper head. I'd like to try one of those sometime, but it's still a lot of extra complexity to be able to shift a gun 10' into a trail.

The Ratnik medium sled is my favorite sled design, and the Baby SG2 with the 260 tip is as good as anything I've tried in terms of efficient air hog - but it's still going to drink ~300 CFM in marginal where an Impulse only needs 100. But for Magic, short of some kind of booster pump or running another 200 psi + from the main pumphouse, the top stretch has to be Rats.


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## Newpylong (Apr 12, 2022)

Perhaps that is why there aren't many deployment, due to the limitations you've encountered. Sometimes looks can be deceiving? lol

I loved our 10' Impulse sleds and half of our Omichron fleet was also on sleds. After I sold all but a couple of those, I mounted a couple K2000 heads to the sleds because the sleds themselves were really cool. You can barely see one in the second picture.


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## IceEidolon (Apr 12, 2022)

Those are nice too, I've used them, but I prefer the bigger brakes and the longer lever arm on the rat sleds. 

For low E portables the Impulse is a really slick setup - just don't let them bury themselves. Given what Magic has, how many Impulse sleds would you want on that system?


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## Newpylong (Apr 12, 2022)

Always buried our Vipers. With the amount of snow they put out and lack of height/throw off the tripod it doesnt take long in a good wet bulb! I do love how you can break them down so easily. We could easily take up the 10 or so we used early season up top in the back of a Ranger in two trips, or in the utility basket on the cat.

I think they have about 15 sleds? That sounds like a good number given what that system pumps adding in the other gear they use? I do value having portability but if money is no object I would continue the fixed equipment build out. We had next to nothing fixed and it was downright awful. No comparison on the labor line. Not my money though


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## IceEidolon (Apr 13, 2022)

Interesting. I'd have said push towards loading one compressor with the 10' sleds, about 10 more than they have - if they're running in super cold weather some will be idle for lack of water, but if it's Valve 1 or Valve 2 weather you can start one compressor and cover a whole lot of Green Lift terrain and use half (Valve 1) or nearly all (Valve 2) of your water. Fixed towers are going to cover one spot - maybe one trail - and be better at it, but ~22 sleds cover Wand, Carpet, Vertigo, Lower Wizard, Carumba, backup on the 300 line and the Carpet/Handle Tow, and more.

Of course once you have those then start putting Impulse towers up as you're able - maybe some SV14 sticks on the bunny hill - but 10 sleds IMO move far more water over a season than 10 more fixed towers would. Swapping one air hog for 4 low E towers on LMC + Wand is huge if there's limited cold before Christmas. Frankly I'm only worried about snowmaking above ~17 degrees anyway since the existing towers plus Rats on Valve 3 would flow more water than the pumps can deliver.

Unless you were thinking to put those towers on Black Line below Witch, that could make a big difference once they get there.


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 13, 2022)

By the way I love all of this snowmaking talk. Thanks!


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## Newpylong (Apr 14, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Interesting. I'd have said push towards loading one compressor with the 10' sleds, about 10 more than they have - if they're running in super cold weather some will be idle for lack of water, but if it's Valve 1 or Valve 2 weather you can start one compressor and cover a whole lot of Green Lift terrain and use half (Valve 1) or nearly all (Valve 2) of your water. Fixed towers are going to cover one spot - maybe one trail - and be better at it, but ~22 sleds cover Wand, Carpet, Vertigo, Lower Wizard, Carumba, backup on the 300 line and the Carpet/Handle Tow, and more.
> 
> Of course once you have those then start putting Impulse towers up as you're able - maybe some SV14 sticks on the bunny hill - but 10 sleds IMO move far more water over a season than 10 more fixed towers would. Swapping one air hog for 4 low E towers on LMC + Wand is huge if there's limited cold before Christmas. Frankly I'm only worried about snowmaking above ~17 degrees anyway since the existing towers plus Rats on Valve 3 would flow more water than the pumps can deliver.
> 
> Unless you were thinking to put those towers on Black Line below Witch, that could make a big difference once they get there.


Lots of ways to skin the cat. The right way is to take a "temperature bin", that's a wet bulb analysis from a local station to you give the number of typical snowmaking hours at any given wet bulb range.

Then you lay out your equipment you have (or want to have) and what it is capable of in terms of max and typical conversion rates, air/water consumption, typical coverage, etc.

Thirdly you join the two with your desired snowmaking footprint and how much each trail needs in terms of acre feet, obviously highly dependent on usage/width, etc.

This will tell you if you're going to be able to get it covered in a "typical" season or if you need more equipment. It also will tell you how many "moves" are needed of the equipment, highly helpful in deciding to purchase more fixed or portable.


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## slatham (Apr 14, 2022)

"I'd have said push towards loading one compressor with the 10' sleds, about 10 more than they have"

Curious what you mean by 10' sleds? They have at least 11 of the HKD tower sleds, and 5 or so HKD ground sleds. Plus the Rats, fixed towers and fans.

As a weather geek this snowmaking chatter is very interesting. I'd love to know more about the math behind determining how much snow can be put down at x wet bulb temp. Although the challenge is the WB is never static over a snowmaking window.


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## Newpylong (Apr 14, 2022)

Those are the ones he was referring to - 10' Impulse sleds. They are the only sleds HKD makes outside of the "Viper" sleds, which are essentially the same (SV12 Impulse) head mounted directly to a sled vs that 10' boom. I didn't think Magic had any Viper sleds but you'd know more than me.

I'll try to find some of the calculations we did if you're interested. Maybe another thread is more appropriate I don't know. Don't want to hijack anymore than we have if folks don't want that.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 14, 2022)

I don’t think the 3 people active in this thread mind at all. I find the snowmaking talk very interesting.


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## drjeff (Apr 14, 2022)

It's a few years old, and based on the West Lake System at Mount Snow, but the interview with Brendan Ryan, who has since moved on and is now the snow surface projects manager for Boyne, has a good deal of info about production efficiences and outputs at different temps









						Mount Snow-making
					

Mount Snow has become the most powerful snowmaker on the East Coast.




					freeskier.com


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## Newpylong (Apr 14, 2022)

Below are some snippets pulled from two different reports (2006 and 2018) the latter of which I was involved in. So the numbers and equipment in 10 years have changed, but it gives you an idea of some of the computations. We only pumped about 15 million gallons a year and ran about 450 hours on average.

The map below I built. Since this map was made we upgraded the majority of that main upline (the thick line in the middle) from 6" to 8" and added Fan Gun plugs to the Canyon/Scrimshaw wide section and a few other select places. I don't think they've done much in the way to snowmaking since I left as all their money has gone towards the bottomless pit (the chair). Unfortunately they don't really have anyone there who knows how to make snow or the physics behind it anyway.


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## slatham (Apr 14, 2022)

Ok thats a lot to digest, but digest I will. Thanks for posting.


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## Newpylong (Apr 14, 2022)

Anytime! The engineers that do this are very passionate and I was a sponge in learning. They have it down to a science, it's quite a niche. I was extremely lucky to be able to work with them and be the quarterback/co-designer on our larger capital projects. I had to sell them to the public too (we had to raise the money as a non-profit).

A byproduct is once you really understand it, some of the excuses/reasons you hear from ski areas about snowmaking either really make sense, or you can see right through them.


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## skithetrees (Apr 15, 2022)

Early bird prices passes are out. Is the early bird price $649 this year? I thought that was the regular season price last year.


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2022)

Yes $649 early bird. I don’t recall the regular price last year, but the early price this year is an increase from last year. Seems to be an industry trend this year (see Storm Skiing Journal). With the improvements made and being made - not to mention the obvious need for more snowmaking in SoVT -  seems reasonable to me.

Plus with 2 poor snow seasons in a row, 22/23 is the year to ski !


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## drjeff (Apr 15, 2022)

Heck, as I am sure we all can agree, the prices of most everything over the last year or so has gone up. And that does factor into the price determination at some point to some level


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## IceEidolon (Apr 15, 2022)

It looks like you're using 270k gallons per acre-foot, which is higher than I usually see quoted (180k-200k). I'm assuming that's empirical?


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## skithetrees (Apr 15, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Heck, as I am sure we all can agree, the prices of most everything over the last year or so has gone up. And that does factor into the price determination at some point to some level


Not complaining, just a bit surprised as I thought that was the regular price last year.


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## ne_skier (Apr 15, 2022)

slatham said:


> Plus with 2 poor snow seasons in a row, 22/23 is the year to ski !


2020-21 was a poor snow year? I don’t recall how much they actually got, but I’ve never seen Black Magic and Magician open for as long as they were that year. I must really be in for something next time around!


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## Newpylong (Apr 15, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> It looks like you're using 270k gallons per acre-foot, which is higher than I usually see quoted (180k-200k). I'm assuming that's empirical?


I think you're missing the Recoveries column. So it's not a straight 540,000 gallons / 2 = 270,000 because some volume is committed to 1.5-2 recoveries. If we are assuming 180,000 for an acre/ft and we use 360,000 for 2 acre/ft that leaves 180,000 for those recovery numbers.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 15, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> 2020-21 was a poor snow year? I don’t recall how much they actually got, but I’ve never seen Black Magic and Magician open for as long as they were that year. I must really be in for something next time around!


20-21 was low snowfall but good sustained temps with the snow we got so it worked out well.


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## NYDB (Apr 15, 2022)

20-21 had a good 5 week stretch.  Cold and No thaws MLK-feb break.   Crappy start and finish tho

Low snowfall year overall.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 18, 2022)

Well played Magic, well played.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 6, 2022)

From various Alpine Updates they've been making progress on the new supply pipeline and the pond rehab. In terms of amenities the lodge deck's gone and getting rebuilt and expanded. At least some of the new build lift parts are up. I'm not aware of any major snowmaking changes above the pumphouse but just having more water available will be a big help - being able to run at 100% through a much longer cold snap should make a huge difference if Nature doesn't come through first.
EDIT: NYDB, exactly the kind of extended low-snow cold snap we saw last year, this pond renovation should be huge when that happens again. One day running wide open can mean nearly five acres covered 1' deep, and doubling the pond adds another ~16 acres without any refilling.


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## slatham (Aug 6, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> From various Alpine Updates they've been making progress on the new supply pipeline and the pond rehab. In terms of amenities the lodge deck's gone and getting rebuilt and expanded. At least some of the new build lift parts are up. I'm not aware of any major snowmaking changes above the pumphouse but just having more water available will be a big help - being able to run at 100% through a much longer cold snap should make a huge difference if Nature doesn't come through first.
> EDIT: NYDB, exactly the kind of extended low-snow cold snap we saw last year, this pond renovation should be huge when that happens again. One day running wide open can mean nearly five acres covered 1' deep, and doubling the pond adds another ~16 acres without any refilling.


Major valve and pipe work @intersection Tali, Sorcerer and Wizard, which will dramatically improve uphill water pressure which has been big issue (can only run rats). I believe there is more but need to hike up which I plan to do this week.

Also, beside more water in pond, the pond to pump house water line goes from 6” to 10”. That will be a big help to run more guns simultaneously. 

Hoping to see the work on tower 13 while here. That is the hard one……..


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## IceEidolon (Aug 8, 2022)

Having better inlet pressure on the main mountain pumps plus being able to run both pumps at 100% is nice, and that new pipe sets them up for maybe a third uphill pump in the next several years too. 

Based on the assumption they can barely run an HKD at the top of Trick, they can barely run an HKD at the top of the Wizard chute with the pressure fix. Bigger lines won't solve head pressure losses, but they'll sure get more volume at acceptable pressures up above Talisman. And anything using a loop going through that area'll pick most of the gravity losses back up on the way downhill.

Please share some pictures for those of us stuck in the flatlands if you get to go exploring!


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## slatham (Aug 8, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Having better inlet pressure on the main mountain pumps plus being able to run both pumps at 100% is nice, and that new pipe sets them up for maybe a third uphill pump in the next several years too.
> 
> Based on the assumption they can barely run an HKD at the top of Trick, they can barely run an HKD at the top of the Wizard chute with the pressure fix. Bigger lines won't solve head pressure losses, but they'll sure get more volume at acceptable pressures up above Talisman. And anything using a loop going through that area'll pick most of the gravity losses back up on the way downhill.
> 
> Please share some pictures for those of us stuck in the flatlands if you get to go exploring!


I think I already posted…this is from June. This work at top intersection of Tali and Wizard is supposed to greatly help upstream pressure.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 8, 2022)

Yes, that repair is a known quantity - I thought your post yesterday implied a trip in the near future. 

If you pass 100 GPM through a 4" valve you get maybe a few psi pressure loss. If you try to pass 750 gpm through that same valve, you get a huge pressure loss downstream/uphill of the valve. That pressure drop they've fixed, but the ~500 psi loss from elevation (2500' to 1350') won't be and that will still keep HKD sleds off the top stretch of Wizard. Gravity giveth and she taketh away.


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## Newpylong (Aug 9, 2022)

I am having a hard time understanding why all the legs of that box have isolation valves. Can it be fed from the bottom or the top?

I still can't believe they put Gate valves in on new installs.


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## Do Work (Aug 9, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I am having a hard time understanding why all the legs of that box have isolation valves. Can it be fed up and down?
> 
> I still can't believe they put Gate valves in on new installs. The Apollo ball safety drain is an improvement but look at those Mr. Vick blind drains on the right, barf lol.




I have like 30 seconds so to answer your question so in short it's the best we can do with the very limited budget and time allotted for a side project like that.  Butterflies are 3x the cost and have caused more problems than any other type and the priority is stopping the constant blowby and enormous fallout resulting from that damage as quickly as possible.  Also almost every valve is in a heated building now and in the long run I'm trying to restore full loop water access so every trail would have downline access and water return into our closed loop in the pit/pond so having two-directional usability is also very useful in the long run "fuck around and find out" phase.  Couple that with the 0 shits I give about effort to open and close and it all makes perfect sense.  Aesthetics be damned, it's a luxury we just don't get and I need every bit of that bi-directional beef and redundancy.        

Also above Tali in the past we've had massive issues with insanely (like "watch it grow before your eyes") fast rime ice buildup, which also led to hugely unpredictable emergency-causing backfeeding water on big push nights when water pressure drops which obviously has huge impact on our speed to make up there.  The combination bigger flow rate and WOT PSI by the 4 to 6 valve and pipe swap along with the reduced air temp with the active air cooling this year now functional due to the bigger pond line and replaced aftercooler internals and piping, all those shit sandwiches should become at least partially edible now that all the contributing factors have been eliminated in one fell swoop of a summer.      

I know we aren't doing it like the big boys do, but we are pulling off major changes for PENNIES on the dollar with limited staff and there are very good reasons for many of the things you see.  I don't think many people have any idea just how straight up mind-meltingly-go-insane impossible the battle has really been the last few years (and will continue to be quite honestly) and I don't expect people to understand or empathize in any way but in a nutshell that's the bag of dicks I get to use to cook my lunch with on today's episode of Master Chef.


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## ThatGuy (Aug 9, 2022)

Matt, you’re a legend thanks for all your hard work and transparency.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 9, 2022)

If I sound critical without explicitly saying "X is stupid" I don't mean it that way. Magic's ops crew is getting things done piece by piece, often working uphill both ways in the snow to get there.

I don't know that the air cooler has been posted here before, that's a huge deal. We lost our air cooler around 26 wet bulb and went from a trail of decent snow to about as wet as you can get without being rain. Plus keeping water out of the air side keeps everything happier.


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## Do Work (Aug 9, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> If I sound critical without explicitly saying "X is stupid" I don't mean it that way. Magic's ops crew is getting things done piece by piece, often working uphill both ways in the snow to get there.
> 
> I don't know that the air cooler has been posted here before, that's a huge deal. We lost our air cooler around 26 wet bulb and went from a trail of decent snow to about as wet as you can get without being rain. Plus keeping water out of the air side keeps everything happier.




I totally get it and I don't expect anybody to understand our situation looking in.  It's a place for discussion and people care, so they talk about stuff.  Certainly no harm in that and I'm far from being beyond reproach in any case.  I wish I could be more present publicly but this is the first time I've even been in my office in probably 2 weeks.


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## Newpylong (Aug 9, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> If I sound critical without explicitly saying "X is stupid" I don't mean it that way. Magic's ops crew is getting things done piece by piece, often working uphill both ways in the snow to get there.
> 
> I don't know that the air cooler has been posted here before, that's a huge deal. We lost our air cooler around 26 wet bulb and went from a trail of decent snow to about as wet as you can get without being rain. Plus keeping water out of the air side keeps everything happier.


I think he was referring to my comment on the valves which likely came across as critical as I read it now. I was just surprised to see gates still being installed for a snowmaking application as the industry has moved to gear operated butterflies on the water side. To each their own and Matt knows what works best for his mountain and crews.


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## Do Work (Aug 9, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I think he was referring to my comment on the valves which likely came across as critical as I read it now. I was just surprised to see gates still being installed for a snowmaking application as the industry has moved to gear operated butterflies on the water side. To each their own and Matt knows what works best for his mountain and crews.




Which is a totally fair assessment on all fronts.


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## Newpylong (Aug 9, 2022)

In the end ANY valve that works is better than one that doesn't lol.


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## urungus (Sep 1, 2022)

From the August 18 Alpine Update:

1) looks like black quad towers are still not complete and once again Pfister Mountain Services have gone AWOL.  The saga continues…
2) green lift reopened only 4 years ago and already 19 chairs are in need of replacement ?!?



> the Green Lift, where yearly testing has shown that we need to replace 19 chairs on our Borvig lift. Those replacement chairs just arrived today which will be sand-blasted and painted a fresh green along with new wooden oak slates for the seats. Expensive, but we can mitigate some of that expense by selling the 19 chairs coming off the lift as prime Magic souvenirs from our 18/19 season mid-mtn lift installation. These 19 chairs are being offered at $800/chair and undoubtedly will go quickly. Here's the link if you want to bring a big part of Magic to your home or business  Buy Green Chairs [sold out]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## cdskier (Sep 1, 2022)

urungus said:


> From the August 18 Alpine Update:
> 
> 1) looks like black quad towers are still not complete and once again Pfister Mountain Services have gone AWOL.  The saga continues…
> 2) green lift reopened only 4 years ago and already 19 chairs are in need of replacement ?!?


They sold the old chairs for $800/chair? (and sold out already!). That's crazy... I guess with only 19 available to sell that is a factor in people willing to pay that much. Still crazy though.


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## tumbler (Sep 1, 2022)

Schister Mountain Services.  I feel bad for the management team that are being led on by this company.  Time to cut ties and hire someone else.  I hope that Magic is holding back money owed to them.  I can't stand BS contractors like this.


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## NYDB (Sep 1, 2022)

I hope they sued the engineer that designed everything in the first place.  

and pfuck that pfister pfellow already.   Is this the pfourth or pfifth year of the black lift install? I keep pforgetting.  Really hope it’s pfinally completed this pfall.


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## Newpylong (Sep 1, 2022)

Who else do you guys believe can (and is willing to perform) the work? I'm all ears, however the question is rhetorical in that I already know the correct answer and you won't like it.

FYI they're not awol, they're at Granite Gorge trying to get the sole lift there in shape so that the mountain can operate this winter.


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## drjeff (Sep 1, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Who else do you guys believe can (and is willing to perform) the work? I'm all ears, however the question is rhetorical in that I already know the correct answer and you won't like it.
> 
> FYI they're not awol, they're at Granite Gorge trying to get the sole lift there in shape so that the mountain can operate this winter.


Appreciate your knowledge that the industry and the contacts you have made can provide.

While I do love Magic and all it represents in the industry, had their post referenced Pfisters whereabouts these days with the detail and timeframe they put into their new BLT/lodge deck update, that would of been a good thing.

Probably won't take any issue when Hugh Conway shows up soon on this topic with the "glass is 1/2 empty" view.

For perspective, if my memory is correct, my oldest kid was a U14 and freshman in Highschool when the installation of the Black Quad began. She's now a Freshman in college, and with the latest update who knows if the "new" Black Quad will actually spin and carry folks up the hill this season.

True, there was the COVID factor in the mix, but there does seem to be more excuses than successes as the common denometer in this thread at times


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## ss20 (Sep 2, 2022)

@Do Work where did the old Borvig chairs come from?  Those are VINTAGE!


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## Newpylong (Sep 2, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Appreciate your knowledge that the industry and the contacts you have made can provide.
> 
> While I do love Magic and all it represents in the industry, had their post referenced Pfisters whereabouts these days with the detail and timeframe they put into their new BLT/lodge deck update, that would of been a good thing.
> 
> ...


Not defending Pjister here, my question was who else if not him?

Had similar issues with him in the past because he is stretched too thin and tries to help everyone. Problem was, no one else would touch our projects with a ten foot pole (other than one other vendor which ended up botching the install (same engineer as the Black Quad too). See what I'm getting at?


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## tumbler (Sep 2, 2022)

yes, I don't know what other contractors that can do the work but I would think there would be more than one that does this type of work.  I know Skytrak has worked on retrofits, are they an option?  Contractors working at other jobs before finishing jobs they have started is tough to stomach.


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## machski (Sep 2, 2022)

tumbler said:


> yes, I don't know what other contractors that can do the work but I would think there would be more than one that does this type of work.  I know Skytrak has worked on retrofits, are they an option?  Contractors working at other jobs before finishing jobs they have started is tough to stomach.


Of course, I'd parts need to be fabricated, do contractors just sit around routinely twiddling their thumbs while waiting?  Nope, they usually move over to another or the next job they have lined up.  Pretty sure that was part of this saga again.  And perhaps Pfister thought Granite Gorge would be a "quick" job.  Of course, anyone who has taken on renovations of vacant homes can tell you, what looks straightforward often is anything but when you get into the work.


----------



## NYDB (Sep 2, 2022)

drjeff said:


> While I do love Magic and all it represents in the industry, had their post referenced Pfisters whereabouts these days with the detail and timeframe they put into their new BLT/lodge deck update, that would of been a good thing


they just did that with the latest alpine update.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 3, 2022)

As far as the Green Chair replacements, that doesn't sound too implausible for a lift that old, especially that was sitting for so long. If we were hearing about failures in service or during the season, that'd be a very different story. Is it known where the replacements were sourced from?

Black Lift does look like they can finish this fall, assuming the contractor work gets done. It sounds as though all the parts are on site and just waiting to go up, then chairs and testing. It'd be such a big win if day 1 summit access is day 1 for Black Chair too, and that finally looks possible if no more surprises jump out.


----------



## slatham (Sep 3, 2022)

Not sure about prior comments that here was no update on Black - from the Alpine update : “Talked with Pfister today and his crew will be heading here on Wednesday for a week to tackle the remaining prep and install work for new sheaves/hangers on Black Quad towers 6 & 7. Matt will then be helping with the certified welding work required from on high.”

Of course Pfister claiming they’ll show, and actually showing, are 2 very different things. Also, the big challenge, which I’m wondering whether Pfister is trying to avoid, is the tower work on #13 (or is it 18?). Either way, a difficult to access tower on double black terrain. 

Tons of progress on pond from my walk around today vs about 3 weeks ago. Lots to do but this crew bites off big pieces each week. Also it looks like the last piece of the much bigger pond to pump house pipe is going in very soon.


----------



## hughconway (Sep 6, 2022)

Another Sept 1 has come & gone without any sort of significant progress on the Black Quad.  Supposedly the contractor will be back this week to handle some of the 'easy' towers, but the "hard to access" tower that has been the source of all sorts of excuses is still untouched.  While there is still enough time to get the installation complete before the season starts, if the history of this job is any indicator of the future, I suspect the lift will be delayed....again.

Does anyone know if the rope tow relocation to the beginner area was handled this summer?  It's been queued up for 2-3 years now, and they still haven't managed to get the handle tow reinstalled.

It's great to see that they've finally gotten around to the snowmaking pond upgrades that have been scheduled for several years.

Hopefully this will be the year that it all 'comes together' for magic, but I'm still pretty skeptical at this point.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 6, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Another Sept 1 has come & gone without any sort of significant progress on the Black Quad.  Supposedly the contractor will be back this week to handle some of the 'easy' towers, but the "hard to access" tower that has been the source of all sorts of excuses is still untouched.  While there is still enough time to get the installation complete before the season starts, if the history of this job is any indicator of the future, I suspect the lift will be delayed....again.
> 
> [....]
> 
> Hopefully this will be the year that it all 'comes together' for magic, but I'm still pretty skeptical at this point.


This is at least the second ski area that seems to be at the mercy of this same contractor.  What is the deal?  Is it that they work on a cash-only basis?  Are they just THAT busy?


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## ThatGuy (Sep 6, 2022)

Might be the most reasonable hughcuntway post I’ve read.


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## Sotto (Sep 6, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> This is at least the second ski area that seems to be at the mercy of this same contractor.  What is the deal?  Is it that they work on a cash-only basis?  Are they just THAT busy?




There are only a handful of installers that will work on these types of projects. And they are less every year. Think about all the new/relocated lifts going in everywhere. Every installer is stretched thin. The area's that pay get the first priority the ones who don't get placed on the back burner.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 6, 2022)

AFAIK the drive and return wheels for the tow relocation were in place and anchored last winter.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 6, 2022)

Sotto said:


> There are only a handful of installers that will work on these types of projects. And they are less every year. Think about all the new/relocated lifts going in everywhere. Every installer is stretched thin. The area's that pay get the first priority the ones who don't get placed on the back burner.


Sure, but I would think that it would be in the interest of said-contractor to at least COMPLETE A LIFT and have it operating rather than this piecemeal and long-drawn out approach.  I would not hire a contractor if he bit off more than he could chew.  But then again, to be fair, I don't know if it is simply that the owner did not have the cash to get it done in one-fell swoop.  It looks bad for the owner and the contractor.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 6, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> AFAIK the drive and return wheels for the tow relocation were in place and anchored last winter.


Yes.  And it is not operating.


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## Newpylong (Sep 6, 2022)

The handle tow has not been "queued-up" for 2-3 seasons, they started installing it in November last year, not really a lot of time to finish before the snow flies. Unsure about status this year. Still a lot time left to finish that.

As for the questions about Pjister: I will break it down again:

-Pjister Mountain Services: does quality work and knows what they are doing, but unless it's an emergency, you could get stuck waiting. Tim tries to take care of everyone, and that does mean emergencies that get in the way of projects. When you are really the only go for this type of stuff in New England, this is what happens. As for folks thinking it makes him look bad? He isn't exactly short of work, so that's humorous.
-Skytrans: you don't want them doing the work and Magic knows it.
-Skytrac: the only other possibility, but they are based out West, probably initially came in above PMS at the project's onset if they were involved in an RFP. Not sure though.
-Partek: they'd put a new lift in for you from re-used Borvig and other components, but not relocate a Poma.
-Poma: won't touch a lift relo unless it's part of a new buy
-Dopplemeyer: won't touch a lift relo unless it's part of a new buy, and Black Line is a Poma anyway

If it were me I wouldn't be happy with the timeline, but when you're not buying new, this is the hand you are sometimes delt. If it weren't for the engineering f-up, it would have been a two year install. My guess is after this debacle Tim won't do another relo again no matter what it pays, plenty of other work out there.


----------



## slatham (Sep 6, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Another Sept 1 has come & gone without any sort of significant progress on the Black Quad.  Supposedly the contractor will be back this week to handle some of the 'easy' towers, but the "hard to access" tower that has been the source of all sorts of excuses is still untouched.  While there is still enough time to get the installation complete before the season starts, if the history of this job is any indicator of the future, I suspect the lift will be delayed....again.
> 
> Does anyone know if the rope tow relocation to the beginner area was handled this summer?  It's been queued up for 2-3 years now, and they still haven't managed to get the handle tow reinstalled.
> 
> ...



They did design and manufacture several sheave assemblies, and installed at least 2 (Towers 8 and 18). They also manufactured a new 1/2 tower arm. From what I understand all the parts necessary to complete installation are on site, with some of them being installed this week. The pressure point is getting Pfister onsite and completing the work as there is still a bunch to do prior to being ready for load test and inspection. So progress was made, but skepticism (in Pfister) remains for sure.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 6, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The handle tow has not been "queued-up" for 2-3 seasons, they started installing it in November last year, not really a lot of time to finish before the snow flies. Unsure about status this year. Still a lot time left to finish that.
> 
> As for the questions about Pjister: I will break it down again:
> 
> ...


Can you remind me what the "engineering f-up" was?  I have a vague recollection.  

And sounds like this guy does not generally do lift re-installs.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Sep 6, 2022)

I think it was with a sheave train design  not sure on specifics.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 6, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I think it was with a sheave train design  not sure on specifics.


That's what I recall was one issue, but it seems like a relatively small issue to hold up an entire project.  But then again I get that this would require a professional engineer to draft plans, some time to fabricate/locate the materials, etc.


----------



## IceEidolon (Sep 6, 2022)

My recollection is the profile of the lift changed substantially from the original install to the new install. Their original reinstall had either normal or depress sheaves on certain towers, and under certain conditions it needed both. This should have been caught during pre-install engineering, but wasn't.   Compounding the issue, new parts for that model lift aren't readily available - replacement wear items, yes, but not so much brand new tower arms or entire combo sheave trains - so new ones had to be fabricated and still need to be installed.

In case that was too boring, at least one tower is almost completely inaccessible to road vehicles - the Magic install was via helicopter, and getting the replacement into position and up the tower is going to take planning, effort, and equipment. Coordinating that equipment with Pfister availability... Yeah.


----------



## cdskier (Sep 6, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> That's what I recall was one issue, but it seems like a relatively small issue to hold up an entire project.  But then again I get that this would require a professional engineer to draft plans, some time to fabricate/locate the materials, etc.


How is having to re-engineer sheave assemblies for multiple towers (with some requiring custom fabrication) a relatively small issue?


----------



## hughconway (Sep 6, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The handle tow has not been "queued-up" for 2-3 seasons, they started installing it in November last year, not really a lot of time to finish before the snow flies. Unsure about status this year. Still a lot time left to finish that.



It last spun on hocus pocus during the 19-20 season.  They announced the closing of the tube park (to make way for the terrain park) and the relocation of the tow from hocus pocus to the beginner area in March of 2020.  March of 2022 was 2 years.  It's now ~6 months out from March 2022 making it a solid 2.5 years (right in the middle of the 2-3 year claim I made and you are trying to refute).

I haven't seen any mention of progress (real or planned) in 2022.


----------



## tumbler (Sep 6, 2022)

Didn't they run black with the chairs on it and the chairs slipped on the rope and a bunch piled up together?  I think it was because of the tower 13 sheave issue from what I recall.  A Magic regular had a pic of it on here somewhere.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 6, 2022)

I recall reading/seeing that.


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## Newpylong (Sep 6, 2022)

hughconway said:


> It last spun on hocus pocus during the 19-20 season.  They announced the closing of the tube park (to make way for the terrain park) and the relocation of the tow from hocus pocus to the beginner area in March of 2020.  March of 2022 was 2 years.  It's now ~6 months out from March 2022 making it a solid 2.5 years (right in the middle of the 2-3 year claim I made and you are trying to refute).
> 
> I haven't seen any mention of progress (real or planned) in 2022.



From my recollection Upper Little Dipper and Rabbit Run were cleared in 2020 and that was it. Snowmaking reactivated and the counterweights poured for the tow in 2021. Lots of ski area intend to start things but never do or they are delayed.  I don't count a lift install as having started unless it actually has started, but that's just semantics.


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## Newpylong (Sep 6, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> That's what I recall was one issue, but it seems like a relatively small issue to hold up an entire project.  But then again I get that this would require a professional engineer to draft plans, some time to fabricate/locate the materials, etc.



That is THE issue and is a major one. It was only found when the chairs were hung and tension was added to the haul rope. Yes, someone f-ed up that profile bigtime, and it wasn't the first time.

As others have noted, these parts aren't off the shelf. Not only did the new sheave trains need to be fabricated, but the Tramway board has to sign off on them, after an aerial tramway engineer signs off on them first. Then there's getting them on the hill....


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## IceEidolon (Sep 6, 2022)

The handle tow move was announced in summer 2020 - see page 138 - and I believe it was physically installed except for the haul rope before last season. As a snowmaker, not a lift mechanic, I'd much rather make snow on a rope tow line without the rope in the way - is is practical to remove the haul rope for initial snowmaking? What state certifications are required for a handle tow? 

I have a strong suspicion that between limited snowmaking capacity on the main mountain and staffing shortages, that lift got put on standby last year. Which is more important, LMC/Wand/Carumba/Hocus Pocus/Showoff/park, or a second beginner lift? It's the same portable guns running on all those trails.


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## chuckstah (Sep 6, 2022)

tumbler said:


> Didn't they run black with the chairs on it and the chairs slipped on the rope and a bunch piled up together?  I think it was because of the tower 13 sheave issue from what I recall.  A Magic regular had a pic of it on here somewhere.


Took this March, 2021


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## AdironRider (Sep 6, 2022)

At some point it’s managements fault and not the contractor.


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## NYDB (Sep 6, 2022)

To be fair, it's gotta be both at this point.  
I'd actually not fault Pfister at all or not much since the engineer seems to have really set the project up for failure. And without knowing more of the communications/contract/ promises between Magic and Pfister it's all a guess.  I don't think it's a money thing.  or at least I hope not.  

it's kind of a shame from my perspective since there is so much other positive stuff going on.  But the lift is such a big visible thing. And the lift instalation history at Magic is spotty. ( Not this ownership group I Know) .  

I will be there regardless this winter. Hope it snows a ton and I hope they get it figured out.


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## ss20 (Sep 6, 2022)

tumbler said:


> Didn't they run black with the chairs on it and the chairs slipped on the rope and a bunch piled up together?  I think it was because of the tower 13 sheave issue from what I recall.  A Magic regular had a pic of it on here somewhere.



Yes two pictures I took.  January 20, 2021.  It had JUST happened as I remember asking a workman about it who was looking at it with a snowmobile and he kindly told me to f off essentially


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## ss20 (Sep 6, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> At some point it’s managements fault and not the contractor.



Yeah that's the category I fall into.  3 summers.  3 summers and it still looks like a nail-biter that it'll be done this winter.    

An opening date never should've been announced, jmo.  Should've worked on it and chipped away like they did with Green and quietly announce its opening when it was ready.  If I was a passholder again (I was when the new ownership first started for a couple seasons) I wouldn't be at this point over the fact that the new lift was promised, billed, and advertised as providing reliable access to the summit as Red has always been a bit unreliable.  

Reading about how they operated Red with a surging drive early last season also left a bad taste in my mouth.  That is not something you play "f around and find out" with.


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## cdskier (Sep 7, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Yeah that's the category I fall into.  3 summers.  3 summers and it still looks like a nail-biter that it'll be done this winter.
> 
> An opening date never should've been announced, jmo.  Should've worked on it and chipped away like they did with Green and quietly announce its opening when it was ready.  If I was a passholder again (I was when the new ownership first started for a couple seasons) I wouldn't be at this point over the fact that the new lift was promised, billed, and advertised as providing reliable access to the summit as Red has always been a bit unreliable.
> 
> Reading about how they operated Red with a surging drive early last season also left a bad taste in my mouth.  That is not something you play "f around and find out" with.



I agree that announcing a date was a bit of a mistake...but that happens an awful lot in real life, because, well, "shit happens." We've had numerous go-live dates for IT projects announced where I work that were subsequently delayed or pushed back when unforeseen issues popped up (and I work at a rather large global company). I've seen it happen with construction projects at work too (literally just today a move to a new site we're moving into in MA was just pushed back a month because the site isn't ready). From a more general perspective you see it all the time in many major projects. How many YEARS was the opening of American Dream in the Meadowlands in NJ delayed?

I know some people don't like hearing this excuse for some reason...but let's also not forget that there was a global pandemic during this time. An engineering consulting firm not too long ago released a study showing that delays of construction projects more than doubled since the start of the pandemic and that 85% of large-scale construction projects were delivered late (with 13% being over a year late).

If people want to blame management, it would also be nice to hear what their ideas are for what could have been done better/differently other than not communicating such an optimistic date. It has already been discussed over and over in this thread that there are very few options to choose from as far as companies that do this particular type of work. No one ever gives any actual sound explanation of what could have been done differently (with the exception of the communication point).


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## Newpylong (Sep 7, 2022)

Blame can ultimately be placed with whomever folks want, but unfortunately that's not going to get the lift done. It's like crying over spilled milk. That's the crux of it...


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## thetrailboss (Sep 7, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Yes two pictures I took.  January 20, 2021.  It had JUST happened as I remember asking a workman about it who was looking at it with a snowmobile and he kindly told me to f off essentially


So what you're saying is Magic paid for a fixed grip and got a detachable?  

In all seriousness, that sucks.


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## urungus (Sep 7, 2022)

cdskier said:


> If people want to blame management, it would also be nice to hear what their ideas are for what could have been done better/differently other than not communicating such an optimistic date.



Did they get a peer review of the engineering plans before starting on the project ?


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## ss20 (Sep 7, 2022)

urungus said:


> Did they get a peer review of the engineering plans before starting on the project ?



That seems to be the main issue... good question.

Also, @Newpylong you might have an answer to this... the sheave trains for the mis-engineered towers had to be re-built from scratch iirc.  I'd of thought early 90s Poma sheaves would be a dime a dozen?


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 7, 2022)

This is all Monday Morning QBing at this point.  I am certain Magic would've preferred to have the lift 3 years ago.  Shit happens and unfortunately this isn't like calling a different drywall contractor to finish the work.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 7, 2022)

urungus said:


> Did they get a peer review of the engineering plans before starting on the project ?





ss20 said:


> That seems to be the main issue... good question.



totally agree but how many engineers actually have lift design experience?  I work with structural engineers and I know they wouldn't review this because they design bridges not ski lifts.


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 7, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> totally agree but how many engineers actually have lift design experience?  I work with structural engineers and I know they wouldn't review this because they design bridges not ski lifts.


The engineer on the drawings is Stevens Engineering which is a lift specialist. I notice they don't list the Black Chair as a project. I'm sure there is some dissatisfaction between the parties. I think the sheave design problem would be routine. Could be an engineering error or towers not placed or built to spec.


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## Newpylong (Sep 7, 2022)

I am making a huge ASSumption that what likely happened is that all parties involved tried to make the profile work with the number of tower combinations that were on hand from Stratton as-is. Sometimes you can get away with this if the profile is close enough, sometimes you can't. Most of the time minor changes are needed at minimum.

The same thing happened to us but on a smaller scale and it was a surface lift. We had 5 towers, they tried to make it work with 5 towers, it didn't work. It was deroping constantly. We needed to add compression trains in places where there were simple depression trains. When another vendor took a lift at the lift a year later they thought it was obvious that it should have been a 6 tower install. Obviously when you scale up to a lift as expansive as the Black Chair, it's not longer a case of "oops". It's a big F-up.

SS20 to your question, the peer review process consists of the Tramway Board and associated inspectors reviewing the application. This is not a true peer review in that it is not a deep dive into the actual load numbers. They are simply looking for any obvious engineering issues with the application. The Tramway Board trusts that if a profile has a seal of the certified engineer on it, it is correct.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 7, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I am making a huge ASSumption that what likely happened is that all parties involved tried to make the profile work with the number of tower combinations that were on hand from Stratton as-is. Sometimes you can get away with this if the profile is close enough, sometimes you can't. Most of the time minor changes are needed at minimum.
> 
> The same thing happened to us but on a smaller scale and it was a surface lift. We had 5 towers, they tried to make it work with 5 towers, it didn't work. It was deroping constantly. We needed to add compression trains in places where there were simple depression trains. When another vendor took a lift at the lift a year later they thought it was obvious that it should have been a 6 tower install. Obviously when you scale up to a lift as expansive as the Black Chair, it's not longer a case of "oops". It's a big F-up.
> 
> SS20 to your question, the peer review process consists of the Tramway Board and associated inspectors reviewing the application. This is not a true peer review in that it is not a deep dive into the actual load numbers. They are simply looking for any obvious engineering issues with the application. The Tramway Board trusts that if a profile has a seal of the certified engineer on it, it is correct.


So I am not an engineer, but was it the pressure from the sheave train that was pulling the chairs off the rope?


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## Newpylong (Sep 7, 2022)

Beats me.


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## ne_skier (Sep 7, 2022)

ss20 said:


> The sheave trains for the mis-engineered towers had to be re-built from scratch iirc.  I'd of thought early 90s Poma sheaves would be a dime a dozen?


Not who you asked, but it’s my recollection that sourcing the sheave assemblies was the tricky part, not the sheaves themselves. The sheaves Poma used from the late 70s through 1986/87 are also different than those used from the late 80s through the 90s. BL, being from ‘86, has the older spoked style sheaves as opposed to the newer “solid” ones seen on newer installs (Blue Ribbon @ Bromley). Alas I am unaware of the technical differences between these, for all I know it’s just a difference in design.


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## hughconway (Sep 7, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> So what you're saying is Magic paid for a fixed grip and got a detachable?



Magic also started running the Red chair as a detachable double last season.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 7, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Magic also started running the Red chair as a detachable double last season.


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## ne_skier (Sep 7, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Another Sept 1 has come & gone without any sort of significant progress on the Black Quad.  Supposedly the contractor will be back this week to handle some of the 'easy' towers, but the "hard to access" tower that has been the source of all sorts of excuses is still untouched.  While there is still enough time to get the installation complete before the season starts, if the history of this job is any indicator of the future, I suspect the lift will be delayed....again.


Never saw myself giving an inch to the veteran trolls who lurk in this thread, but here we are. The frustration is justifiable. The trolls may rejoice now that someone who actually skis at Magic and is invested in its future is giving some *minor* credence to one of their rants. 

After 4 seasons without a second summit lift and the potential for a fifth, it's understandable to be a little frustrated with the process. The consequences of only one lift to the top, whether it's long lift lines for a similarly long lift ride or no summit access during Red's breakdowns can and do suck. And unless you're paying attention to the updates and are at least decently versed in the tribulations of installing a chairlift, it may seem like not much is being done to meet the current, 5th target. 

As shitty as it feels and looks to dismiss this buildup of frustration with "it just sucks", that's all you can really do. With the exception of whoever ends up taking the blame for the engineering mishap that has added at least 2 years to this project, there isn't really anyone to point the finger at here. While it isn't Magic's fault that despite 6 years of growth they still aren't rich by any ski area definition, it also isn't Pfister's fault for being overworked and catering to customers in more dire straits and with deeper pockets (y'know, like companies typically do). 

The question now is where do we go from here. With the possible exception of SkyTrak, the possibility of another installer or lift manufacturer taking the reins for this project is very unlikely. My best, unqualified advice going forward is to stay honest with the aforementioned frustrated clientele as Magic has been doing and don't set expected opening dates till the lift is inspected.


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## Do Work (Sep 12, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> The question now is where do we go from here.



I go retrofit a chairlift.  Starting today FYI, Pfister boys are out there now staging and building parts and we'll be working on this nonstop until these towers are done.  I won't make any promises but the wheels are finally freakin' moving after a long and torturous stay with our hands bound in engineering hell (as opposed to welding hell which is where I will be for the next month).  

I know people are frustrated about Black's status for good reason and I am too, so I'm just going to finish wolfing down this sandwich and get back to welding rather than attempt to placate.  I'm sure G will be sharing status updates and pics as we complete our goals so stay tuned.


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## bigbob (Sep 12, 2022)

Do Work said:


> I go retrofit a chairlift.  Starting today FYI, Pfister boys are out there now staging and building parts and we'll be working on this nonstop until these towers are done.  I won't make any promises but the wheels are finally freakin' moving after a long and torturous stay with our hands bound in engineering hell (as opposed to welding hell which is where I will be for the next month).
> 
> I know people are frustrated about Black's status for good reason and I am too, so I'm just going to finish wolfing down this sandwich and get back to welding rather than attempt to placate.  I'm sure G will be sharing status updates and pics as we complete our goals so stay tuned.


Nothing beats a positive attitude. This is what life is these days, a series of setbacks, but unless you keep pushing foreword the setbacks will beat you! Rember, they started this project during Covid and the world is still not back to normal. Will it ever be?


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 12, 2022)

GIF -  - Discover & Share GIFs
					

Click to view the GIF




					tenor.com


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## IceEidolon (Sep 14, 2022)

Pictures from Magic's FB - they're doing work on Wizard Chute.


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## Smellytele (Sep 14, 2022)

Missed not skiing there last year.


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## NYDB (Sep 14, 2022)

Good call.  Those boulders will stop alot of people from sliding all the way to the bottom after they try to turn on the ice.


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## slatham (Sep 14, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Good call.  Those boulders will stop alot of people from sliding all the way to the bottom after they try to turn on the ice.


Ha! LOL.

The good news, Wizard Chute is now wider. But now there’s a man made rock ledge to keep it a true Magic trail!

I hiked this earlier this summer when the work started. I was thinking they would need some dynamite to get wider into the rock ledge. Looks like some talented backhoe work might have done it.

Some much needed widening especially if uphill capacity is increased.


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## Newpylong (Sep 14, 2022)

Gonna be a runoff (from the ledge) problem there now? Probably no worse than before.


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## ss20 (Sep 15, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Good call.  Those boulders will stop alot of people from sliding all the way to the bottom after they try to turn on the ice.



I went down on the ice there once.  So now I'm on the ground looking up and my buddy turns hard right and rode up the ledge to stop himself.  A patroller 50 feet behind us fell as well trying to stop himself from hitting me.


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## Tin Woodsman (Sep 16, 2022)

Should be a hell of a compression if you're coming down the fall line though.


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## raisingarizona (Sep 16, 2022)

slatham said:


> Looks like some talented backhoe work might have done it.


Let's leave (insert someone's name here)'s Mom out of this. 

It's most likely an excavator.


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## ThatGuy (Sep 16, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> Let's leave hughconways Mom out of this.


Fixed it for you


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## Dickc (Sep 22, 2022)

__ https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/photos/a.10151850693457038/10158553190137038
			




  New sheaves being installed on Towers 6 & 7.  This leaves only pesky tower 13.....


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## JoeB-Z (Sep 23, 2022)

Nice to see the show stoppers addressed. I need to stop by in a bit, pay for my locker and do my "inspection". Interesting to see how the Wizard chute skis. My wimpy knees don't allow just going for it.


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## slatham (Sep 29, 2022)

Dickc said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/photos/a.10151850693457038/10158553190137038
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The "Bucket" truck/machine is in place at #13. It could be seen from Rt 11 yesterday and was confirmed by Magic. They need to get the cross bar/sheave assembly up there and then install, but this is now underway.

Also some great progress on the pond - should be done in October.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 29, 2022)

That bodes well - if that's the last major item, there's a month and a half (two, if it's a slow start) to finish major work, hang the chairs, load test, and handle any other issues they find.


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## slatham (Sep 29, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> That bodes well - if that's the last major item, there's a month and a half (two, if it's a slow start) to finish major work, hang the chairs, load test, and handle any other issues they find.



While I am sure they want it available for first day of summit skiing - which itself is usually not until mid-December - the real goal is Christmas. So 2 1/2+ months.

No chairs to load - they are on the line. I presume they already went through NDT, but maybe not. Still, I am sure there are a ton of things to do once they can spin it.


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## Dickc (Sep 29, 2022)

"https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/posts/pfbid02mWXkt6SYscUdaC7XtH6cNxXo7k1PxW2eTLw3BMiWjDU7oGeSkTYweMDWhEwZ1trwl&show_text=true&width=500"

Pictures on Magic's Facebook page of tower 13 work, as well as a best guess timeline for it.


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## IceEidolon (Sep 30, 2022)

slatham said:


> While I am sure they want it available for first day of summit skiing - which itself is usually not until mid-December - the real goal is Christmas. So 2 1/2+ months.
> 
> No chairs to load - they are on the line. I presume they already went through NDT, but maybe not. Still, I am sure there are a ton of things to do once they can spin it.


Have they done their partial NDT? They may need to pull some for testing. I wasn't aware/paying attention that most were already hung.

Per official FB this tower is supposed to take two weeks (give it three - nothing is ever as easy as it's meant to be) so that still leaves them with about a month give or take before they start losing the summit work road to snowmaking.


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## slatham (Sep 30, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Have they done their partial NDT? They may need to pull some for testing. I wasn't aware/paying attention that most were already hung.
> 
> Per official FB this tower is supposed to take two weeks (give it three - nothing is ever as easy as it's meant to be) so that still leaves them with about a month give or take before they start losing the summit work road to snowmaking.


As long as they get tower 13 done, access road not needed. Shouldn’t be anything to bring up that can’t be brought on a cat.


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## billyb3 (Oct 15, 2022)

It's been a few weeks...anyone know how tower 13 is going?


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## IceEidolon (Oct 15, 2022)

They just finished the two week timeline, I still think it could take another week before we hear anything else even without anything major going sideways. Has anyone heard different?


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## SkiNewEngland.net (Oct 16, 2022)

https://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=995


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## hughconway (Oct 17, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> They just finished the two week timeline, I still think it could take another week before we hear anything else even without anything major going sideways. Has anyone heard different?



You're surprised that Magic has failed to meet another project milestone that they have announced?  The damn dam was supposed to be done on 10/1, the deck on 9/9 and the beginner area handle tow 2 years ago, yet all of these projects are still unfinished.  It's mind blowing that the management & marketing crew still haven't figured out that setting & failing to meet project deadlines is a very bad look.


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## NYDB (Oct 17, 2022)

what happened to the wedding that was supposed to happen on the deck?


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## IceEidolon (Oct 17, 2022)

hughconway said:


> You're surprised that Magic has failed to meet another project milestone that they have announced?  The damn dam was supposed to be done on 10/1, the deck on 9/9 and the beginner area handle tow 2 years ago, yet all of these projects are still unfinished.  It's mind blowing that the management & marketing crew still haven't figured out that setting & failing to meet project deadlines is a very bad look.


It's mind blowing how desperate you're getting to dredge up crap (maybe save that for the pond?) now that Black's actually having visible progress.


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## skiur (Oct 17, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> It's mind blowing how desperate you're getting to dredge up crap (maybe save that for the pond?) now that Black's actually having visible progress.


While hugh obviously has it in for magic and goes quite overboard with his hate for management there, there is some truth in what he is saying.


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## drjeff (Oct 17, 2022)

Anyone else think that the cross bar on that tower that the sheaves will be on, looks a bit small, especially compared to what the typical bulk of the cross bars on an L-P tower look like?

I am sure that the steel used is plenty strong to handle the load that will be placed on it, however to the eye it appears small.

Wonder if there will be some type of walkway installed on it once both sheave trains are inplace so as to facilitate safer access for the lift mechanics in times such as when they need to de-ice the sheaves and/or do regular maintenance on them?


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## hughconway (Oct 17, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> It's mind blowing how desperate you're getting to dredge up crap (maybe save that for the pond?) now that Black's actually having visible progress.



Please accept my apologies if these facts hurt your feelings.

I'm not the one creating these BS timelines, but folks like yourself keep falling for the lies - hook, line & sinker.  As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing (or in this case believing) the same thing over & over and expecting a different result each time.


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## hughconway (Oct 17, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Anyone else think that the cross bar on that tower that the sheaves will be on, looks a bit small, especially compared to what the typical bulk of the cross bars on an L-P tower look like?



I see what you are saying, but am not sure.  I don't know if that cross arm in the picture is the old one or the 'new' re-engineered part?


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## IceEidolon (Oct 17, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Anyone else think that the cross bar on that tower that the sheaves will be on, looks a bit small, especially compared to what the typical bulk of the cross bars on an L-P tower look like?


There's really not much to these towers once you take away the lifting frame, and this is a depress tower so you need to pull the haul rope down, not up.

I can see a little bit of what might be walkway on the downhill side - maybe the uphill walkway was removed during the rebuild?


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## slatham (Oct 17, 2022)

From what I understand Tower 13 is getting a new - or partially new - cross bar, not just sheave assembly, so that is probably why it looks so “thin” - the rebuilt part not installed yet.


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## Newpylong (Oct 17, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Please accept my apologies if these facts hurt your feelings.
> 
> I'm not the one creating these BS timelines, but folks like yourself keep falling for the lies - hook, line & sinker.  As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing (or in this case believing) the same thing over & over and expecting a different result each time.



Don't see anyone grabbing a lure and running out the line. I see a group of faithful that are likely as frustrated as management with the timeline and have granted them a lot of slack, deserving or not. One has to keep mind, all of these capital projects that have taken multiple years to implement aren't exactly core "do or die" services that aren't being delivered. The Green Chair was a huge addition, was the ski experience broken without it? No. Current management inherited a neutered second summit chair that could not reliably pass inspection. There hasn't been a lift where the tow is going since the 90s...They are improving the mountain, if it takes 3 years then it takes 3 years to do some things. They've probably learned to be a little more realistic by now on timelines.

I've had plenty of less than flattering comments about how the area I used to run has been operated in recent years. But I've realized I'm not going to change anything by publicly grinding the ax and to be frank, it makes one look petty.


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## Dickc (Oct 17, 2022)

Last I heard from Magic, they are hoping to have Pfister up there later this week to begin installing stuff.  I'm sure that depends on Pfister being free to do it.  I am willing to bet that Magic is on the low end of Pfister's prioroties as Magic is operating on a bit of a shoestring and not able (or willing) to pay premium rates.  The fact that stuff is getting done, slowly but surely, is a great sign.


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## ne_skier (Oct 18, 2022)

The only reason Hugh Conway spews his vile shit across this thread at any given opportunity is to get a reaction out of the people who actually care about the mountain. He knows that the things he says make no sense and are entirely unprovable, so there’s no point explaining anything to him. Don’t feed the troll.


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## skiur (Oct 18, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> The only reason Hugh Conway spews his vile shit across this thread at any given opportunity is to get a reaction out of the people who actually care about the mountain. He knows that the things he says make no sense and are entirely unprovable, so there’s no point explaining anything to him. Don’t feed the troll.



How's that? Magic has definitely dropped the ball wether it's their fault or not.  Hugh definitely has it in for current management but to say everything he says is untrue is just untrue.


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## Newpylong (Oct 18, 2022)

Agreed, some is true, but wrong way to vent frustration. If it's really frustration and not just trolling.

Knowing Geoff what little I do, his door is likely open for any actual customer to have a little sit down and have that discussion.


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## Dickc (Oct 22, 2022)

Magic Facebook page shows pictures of work on tower 13.  Says some welding to tower needed, then hoisting up of the sheaves.


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## Dickc (Oct 28, 2022)

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=magic%20mountain%20ski%20area
		


MAgic has the tower ready for Pfister to come next week.


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## slatham (Oct 29, 2022)

Dickc said:


> https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=magic%20mountain%20ski%20area
> 
> 
> 
> MAgic has the tower ready for Pfister to come next week.


Yes but let’s hope they show! Great pics on FB showing what was needed on 13, with Matt getting it done. What you can’t appreciate (unless you know the hill) is how tough it is to get machinery and parts to that tower. It’s a steep and gnarly section of mountain.

Magic is certainly benefiting from the nice and warm pattern we have right now.


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## NYDB (Nov 3, 2022)

Does anyone know what pfister is working on with the red chair?


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## slatham (Nov 3, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Does anyone know what pfister is working on with the red chair?



Need to replace seal on base bull wheel.


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## Newpylong (Nov 3, 2022)

The rubber gasket for the haul rope on the bull wheel or a seal on the shaft itself?


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## slatham (Nov 3, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The rubber gasket for the haul rope on the bull wheel or a seal on the shaft itself?


I believe the later. Especially if that might require jacking up the bull wheel to replace.


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## NYDB (Nov 7, 2022)

how's that tower 13 coming along?  7 weeks to xmas.


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## AdironRider (Nov 7, 2022)

I believe based on their latest post on TGR they lost their mtn ops manager, so that can't be helpful.


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## NYDB (Nov 7, 2022)

so did vail or alterra poach him?


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## slatham (Nov 7, 2022)

Yes Matt is no longer Dir of Mountain ops. I am not 100% sure of his status, but he continues to work on welding projects as evidenced by the social media posts of him on tower 13.

They hired Paul Maitland from Stratton to run “Mountian operations”- not sure of exact title, and not sure if this is a direct replacement or coincidence or what. They also hired a senior lift mechanic who comes from Powderhorn.

I am sorry to see Matt go, but hopefully he continues his involvement as he has great insight/history of the Mountian and tons of talent. He’s also done so much for Magic over the years.

On the flip side I should be able to ski with him more.


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## NYDB (Nov 7, 2022)

having a lift mechanic on staff and in house is a big upgrade no?


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## slatham (Nov 7, 2022)

NYDB said:


> having a lift mechanic on staff and in house is a big upgrade no?


They have lift mechanic(s). Addition to team. Always need lift talent!


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## IceEidolon (Nov 10, 2022)

Quote from Magic's Facebook page 

"Tower 13 is complete and now Pfister’s crew is working to align the tower sheaves so haul rope runs smoothly—currently working towers 6/7—and we can begin to run the lift again so other line work can begin. Lots to do getting off tower 13 was a big one."


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## Newpylong (Nov 10, 2022)

Hopefully only have to align the few they made changes to, the balance should have been aligned before they hung the chairs.


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## slatham (Nov 10, 2022)

This great news and progress. Still lots to do before they even spin it, and lots thereafter. But from what I understand from here on out it’s more “normal” lift work vs the complex engineering work that was just completed.


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## IceEidolon (Nov 11, 2022)

Sounds like there's progress on the pond.


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## Dickc (Nov 11, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Sounds like there's progress on the pond.


HA!  I am Richard Campbell!  Hence the DickC


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## IceEidolon (Nov 11, 2022)

New Alpine Update. https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/

Progress on the deck, line work on Black, pond needs an inspection but they hope to be making snow by Thanksgiving. Red apparently needs a plate welded under each chair. They're sticking to a December opening date.


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## urungus (Nov 11, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> New Alpine Update. https://magicmtn.com/alpine-update/
> 
> Progress on the deck, line work on Black, pond needs an inspection but they hope to be making snow by Thanksgiving. Red apparently needs a plate welded under each chair. They're sticking to a December opening date.


“complete this Quad lift for passengers at some point [this] season if all goes well”


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## Newpylong (Nov 11, 2022)

Each chair...that is a lot cutting and welding... has to be frustrating. Either it's a known issue that's come to head or the inspector got a hair across their ass to drop this on them in November.


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## AdironRider (Nov 11, 2022)

Given Magic’s track record and their lack of an ops manager, it is not a good sign they currently do not have red or black close to operational.


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## hughconway (Nov 11, 2022)

The reality is that the black quad will NOT carry passengers in the 22-23 season.  There was a veiled reference to testing the rope in today's update that is just warming you up for a future faux surprise announcement that the rope has failed testing.  While the failure will be true, the fact is that when the installation was approved the current rope was conditionally approved for a limited time to help give Magic a chance to get the chair installed & running quickly (ha!).  That time has passed, and that haul rope will never carry a paying customer up magic mountain.  A new haul rope will need to be ordered and installed before that chair has a chance in hell of getting certified to carry passengers.

Given Magic's history of dragging projects on forever, needing 150+ chairs welded in the next month on the red double doesn't even seem close to possible.  I doubt that chair will come online until after xmas - if nothing goes sideways.

We're nearly halfway thru november, and they don't even have a snowmaking pond, and if they did they don't even have the line tied in to pump water up to the pit for snowmaking.  Scary.

It also sounds like the 4 month deck installation make take another month or two.  You can't make this stuff up.  Looks like it will be pretty amazing once it actually gets finished.

Jeezus.  A month ago, I was thinking that with a little luck this might be the year that it all comes together at magic.  The way things look today, they'll be lucky if they can offer summit skiing in 2022.


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## slatham (Nov 11, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Each chair...that is a lot cutting and welding... has to be frustrating. Either it's a known issue that's come to head or the inspector got a hair across their ass to drop this on them in November.


From what I understand it was a new issue but known at least a couple of months ago, not just this month. There were questions about how necessary the repairs are…..

It’s not a complicated fix but it is time consuming, what with 170+ chairs. But from what I understand you can run the lift without having all 170 fixed and hung. So I think predictions of Red not running until after Christmas are bit extremist.


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## slatham (Nov 11, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Given Magic’s track record and their lack of an ops manager, it is not a good sign they currently do not have red or black close to operational.



They were without an “ops manager” for only a few weeks. And the former one was still on site and on payroll. New mountain ops manager was at Stratton for 20+ years. Plenty of time to get Red work done. Black, too many unknown unknowns……


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## NYDB (Nov 11, 2022)

slatham said:


> This was known at least a couple of months ago.


that's interesting.  they knew it was a problem but couldn't get someone to inspect it and give it the thumbs up or down any earlier?  

4 chairs a day seems reasonable though.  if they can get the peices


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## slatham (Nov 11, 2022)

NYDB said:


> that's interesting.  they knew it was a problem but couldn't get someone to inspect it and give it the thumbs up or down any earlier?
> 
> 4 chairs a day seems reasonable though.  if they can get the peices


No I believe they found out about it from the inspector him/herself, or at least had it confirmed by an inspector that they needed the work, a month or so ago.  With welding on Black done I would imagine the welding on Red is top priority now.

Unfortunately these types of surprises are par for the course with old lifts.


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## Newpylong (Nov 11, 2022)

hughconway said:


> The reality is that the black quad will NOT carry passengers in the 22-23 season.  There was a veiled reference to testing the rope in today's update that is just warming you up for a future faux surprise announcement that the rope has failed testing.  While the failure will be true, the fact is that when the installation was approved the current rope was conditionally approved for a limited time to help give Magic a chance to get the chair installed & running quickly (ha!).  That time has passed, and that haul rope will never carry a paying customer up magic mountain.  A new haul rope will need to be ordered and installed before that chair has a chance in hell of getting certified to carry passengers.
> 
> Given Magic's history of dragging projects on forever, needing 150+ chairs welded in the next month on the red double doesn't even seem close to possible.  I doubt that chair will come online until after xmas - if nothing goes sideways.
> 
> ...



Could be but I've never heard of a conditional approval to keep operating a rope...it either fails NDT (due to stretch, damage, etc) or it doesn't. Not one of those items you can receive an exception on such as delaying a 7 year load test.

That said, operators typically know a rope only has x amount of hours left before it fails NDT and preemptively replace.Considering the lift hasn't even been put under load yet I find it hard to believe that the rope is any worse off than when the Tramway board approved final construction.

I'd wager on operating at least one season if it is indeed nearing end of life. It would have been foolish to go through the trouble of pulling the rope, splicing it, and putting the chairs on if failure was imminent 2 years ago.


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## Keelhauled (Nov 11, 2022)

Wasn't the Red haul rope replacement unplanned?  I sure hope this is finally the year, but I don't know that the optimistic viewpoint has ever once turned out to happen in the whole long saga.


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## drjeff (Nov 12, 2022)

As much as I truly hope that Magic gets everything taken care of and operational before say Christmas, as it truly is a special place that I sincerely hopes thrives. Objectively you have to say that over the last 4-5yrs often they are guilty of over promoting and underdelivering vs meeting stated goals. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the incredibly hard working, talented crew Geoff has there.

If potentially you are looking at a good chunk of the season where potentially the Red isn't running and the Black still may not be operational, selling "take the green to sunset corner and grab a drink" is only going to go so far.

The Hugh Conway view of things Magic, often over the last few years has (unfortunately) ended up more right than wrong. Even Magic's most diehard cheerleaders have to acknowledge that


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## Vter (Nov 12, 2022)

Just a “flash-back” reading the “Magic” thread.
I really, really dug Magic in ‘78 & ‘79…boarding ski prep school days only 30 mins down the road…up at 5:30…out of class at 11:45, loaded the bus by 12:30 everyday, on Hill by 1:00. Ya, we had Saturday classes too. $3-$4 tiks till closing…the woods were filled with that smell…Bromley was a Great time too, every other day, as well. 
Those days forever embraced in heart & soul.  
FreeSki everything, glad I dumped racing (Ski Coach was asst. Football, x2 capt here, can still F’off)


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## Newpylong (Nov 12, 2022)

drjeff said:


> As much as I truly hope that Magic gets everything taken care of and operational before say Christmas, as it truly is a special place that I sincerely hopes thrives. Objectively you have to say that over the last 4-5yrs often they are guilty of over promoting and underdelivering vs meeting stated goals. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the incredibly hard working, talented crew Geoff has there.
> 
> If potentially you are looking at a good chunk of the season where potentially the Red isn't running and the Black still may not be operational, selling "take the green to sunset corner and grab a drink" is only going to go so far.
> 
> The Hugh Conway view of things Magic, often over the last few years has (unfortunately) ended up more right than wrong. Even Magic's most diehard cheerleaders have to acknowledge that



I'm hoping lessons have been learned in regards to project duration and contractor/parts availability going forward and more appropriate timetables for major capital projects are released.

Here's the rub: that said, despite all of the delays and spoiled milk, all of these items (when finally complete) no question make Magic a better place. It's better than NELSAP and it's better than how things were (ie 1.5 operable lifts and a broken snowmaking system etc). So I guess pick your poison at this point...people are human and make mistakes.


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## hughconway (Nov 12, 2022)

Keelhauled said:


> Wasn't the Red haul rope replacement unplanned?  I sure hope this is finally the year, but I don't know that the optimistic viewpoint has ever once turned out to happen in the whole long saga
> 
> 
> hughconway said:
> ...



See my post from 2020 mentioning that the red double haul rope was known to be at the end of its life long before magicment pretended to be 'surprised' by it last fall. 

I'm suggesting that the usability of the haul rope on the black quad (remember, it was in use for >20 years at stratton, before being spooled, stored for a couple of years, and spliced twice last year!) will also be presented as a 'surprise' even though it is a known issue to those involved in the redesign and reinstall.


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## slatham (Nov 13, 2022)

Pond inspection done, spillway was closed today. Pond will start filling sometime this week.


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## Dickc (Nov 13, 2022)

slatham said:


> Pond inspection done, spillway was closed today. Pond will start filling sometime this week.











						Josh with the real-time, in-excavator cab-cam update (rated PG-13 for language 😂)…spillway structure passed its water test this morning so Hunter got the... | By Magic Mountain Ski Area | Facebook
					

1.8K views, 95 likes, 0 loves, 5 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Magic Mountain Ski Area: Josh with the real-time, in-excavator cab-cam update (rated PG-13 for language 😂)…spillway...




					www.facebook.com
				




Link to Facebook video of them covering it.


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## NYDB (Nov 21, 2022)

So Hugh was right about the haul rope. Except that they already ordered a new one and it is on site.


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## urungus (Nov 21, 2022)

NYDB said:


> So Hugh was right about the haul rope. Except that they already ordered a new one and it is on site.



November 18 Quick Update

Is it Friday the 13th, rather than the 18th? Anyway, two bits of news today which are less than desirable:

1. We have a slight delay with state giving final approval to fill snowmaking pond beyond the low level of water currently there as the earthen dam structure with the road on top has not been completely finished due to this week's weather, therefore Hunter will continue work on that so we can obtain final dam approval next week. This does mean we have to delay start of snowmaking until mid next week.

2. The state tramway authority has told us that they will not pass the current haul rope for the new-to-us Quad. Fortunately, we did order a new haul rope last summer just for this possibility. The new rope is here on site and now we will schedule Pfister to take off the old and put on the new. Chairs will all have to come off the line once final tower alignment is complete. This will add considerbale time to the Quad's completion. Once we settle on a timeline with Pfister Mountain Services, we will let every one know.

On the good news side, we've made a lot of progress this week on the new super deck and we picked up about 4-5" this week across the mountain, and we are still on track for our 12/15 opening day despite this delay on snowmaking start-up. Also, we are making progress on welding work for all of 177 chairs on Red to shore up the framing under the seats.

Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving week and the Tavern will be open as scheduled next Friday with a band next Saturday.


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## Newpylong (Nov 21, 2022)

I owe Hugh a tip of my hat on that one.

Having seen a picture of them welding the supports on the Red Chair, I feel a lot more confident that job is not as big as I feared and will be ready for when they can actually put snow on the hill. I was concerned plates must be cut out to cover the entirety of the bottom of the carriers. That would have added considerable time to the process, though it is still very time consuming.


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## slatham (Nov 21, 2022)

The haul rope was no surprise, by definition, since they ordered one already. When they ran the rope originally is was clear it was at the end of its useful life, so this was known from 2 years ago. The only question was how long would it last? And they couldn't replace the old rope until the towers were fixed, so a moot point until now. But at least they saw it coming and were proactive enough to buy one and get it on site. That said it certainly puts Black running this winter at risk, which would be a major bummer.

While its disappointing the pond was not approved, as long as it is this week they'll be ok. Its not even thanksgiving so they haven't missed any of their normal snowmaking window yet, though they have lost time to test everything. Luckily the pond fills fast, even without the added water from pumping from Thompsonburg Brook. They just need enough water to start by the next cold snap post Thanksgiving.


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## urungus (Nov 21, 2022)

slatham said:


> When they ran the rope originally is was clear it was at the end of its useful life, so this was known from 2 years ago.


If that’s the case the Monday morning quarterback in me says they should never have run the old rope in the first place


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## Newpylong (Nov 21, 2022)

Seems to me they thought they could get a year or two out of it (had the lift been engineered correctly and operating on time). If I could defer a 6 figure haul rope and eat the cost of an extra splice I probably would.


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## machski (Nov 21, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Seems to me they thought they could get a year or two out of it (had the lift been engineered correctly and operating on time). If I could defer a 6 figure haul rope and eat the cost of an extra splice I probably would.


Since you would be the most likely to know this answer, how hard is it to book a splice of a rope?  I assume it is a bit of a lead time given the few certified for this type of work.


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## doublediamond (Nov 21, 2022)

Exactly @urungus .  Camden’s new-to-them summit lift was a million bucks way back when. The Black is longer, taller, over harsher terrain, with years of inflation in between. If you’re putting in that big of an investment I honestly don’t understand why you would even attempt to put on the old rope. It was original to the original lift. I’m sure the timing of Stratton’s HSQ install was  partially based on that rope’s remaining life.

At worst, it just shows the mountain is willing to cut costs at all costs. At best it shows they are chewing off more than they have the capital to afford. Either way … not a good look for the mountain.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 21, 2022)

I feel like they can’t get a lucky break….


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> I feel like they can’t get a lucky break….


Unfortunately a common theme seems to be that they do rely on luck to get something done. 

My personal preference is formulating a plan where the variables are accounted for so that luck really doesn't factor into the operations side of things.

The reality is that when it comes to luck and skiing/riding most of it should be if the customer is lucky enough to get mother nature to give you a powder day or a great weather day, and from an ops side, luck should be mainly confinded to mother nature giving the snowmakers temps to the colder wet bulb side or the lift ops crew temps a few degrees either way to prevent a de-icing situation.

With mother nature seemingly over the last few years making resort operations more challenging with sometimes shorter snowmaking windows or more rain/freeze/recovery situations over the course of a season and especially prior to the all important Christmas to MLK Weekend roughly 3 week stretch, having a fully operational, reliable infrastructure system, where luck only involves the temps and type of precipitation that mother nature brings, isn't a bad operations goal, for any ski area.

Again, I sincerely hope that Magic pulls it all together and mother nature is very kind to them. Geoff and his crew are working incredibly hard through many logistical issues to get this great vision for Magic that they have (and so many would love to see happen) become reality. Sometimes though that means that one may need to choose to take "smaller bites" at a time, since if one objectively looks at things 2 days before Thanksgiving, they currently don't have a summit lift that they can run, and a snowmaking reservoir that may still be awaiting final approval for completion so they can fill it.  

May we all be able to give some Thanks to Magic on Thursday when we sit down to Thanksgiving Dinner that they've been able to get some items done and will be ready to operate in a typical fashion in the next couple of weeks


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## Newpylong (Nov 22, 2022)

I do go back to my original statement: even if there are ruffled feathers and delays, these are massive projects that have and will benefit their customers when completed. Someone is shelling out big bucks to put these lifts and snowmaking improvements in and I'm sorry Magic faithful, it's far above and beyond your business. The investors must trust the team enough.

Everyone wants things done on time but I think the alternative is worse.


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## icecoast1 (Nov 22, 2022)

Are we at the point yet where it would have just been worth having Dopp or Poma put a new lift in from the start?   Obviously hindsight but maybe lessons can be learned from this debacle when it comes to relocating used lifts going forward.


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2022)

icecoast1 said:


> Are we at the point yet where it would have just been worth having Dopp or Poma put a new lift in from the start?   Obviously hindsight but maybe lessons can be learned from this debacle when it comes to relocating used lifts going forward.



Not sure if it's as much the reclocating of the lift that was the issue, or the crew doing the relocating of the lift that has been a definite factor in the timeframe this has taken.  And I get that the cost factor as well as the availability of the lift near by when Stratton took it out to install the HSQ snowbowl lift played into it, and then of course there was the pandemic during the middle years of the Black installation saga.


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## slatham (Nov 22, 2022)

icecoast1 said:


> Are we at the point yet where it would have just been worth having Dopp or Poma put a new lift in from the start?   Obviously hindsight but maybe lessons can be learned from this debacle when it comes to relocating used lifts going forward.



From what I understand from good sources, Dopp and Poma were not an option - they would not do it. Too many new installs, and if they are doing an old lift install its for a customer that's been buying a bunch of new lifts.

Also, some of the delays, notably COVID, Dopp and Poma would have been impacted too. Whether they would have avoided the rock ledge issues, or the concrete delay, etc nobody can say. I would however hazard a guess they would have avoided the engineering issue. But its a moot point.......

Not to always defend (I am admittedly "too close")  lets not forget what HAS been done over these past 6 years.


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## cdskier (Nov 22, 2022)

slatham said:


> From what I understand from good sources, Dopp and Poma were not an option - they would not do it. Too many new installs, and if they are doing an old lift install its for a customer that's been buying a bunch of new lifts.
> 
> Also, some of the delays, notably COVID, Dopp and Poma would have been impacted too. Whether they would have avoided the rock ledge issues, or the concrete delay, etc nobody can say. I would however hazard a guess they would have avoided the engineering issue. But its a moot point.......
> 
> Not to always defend (I am admittedly "too close")  lets not forget what HAS been done over these past 6 years.



icecoast's question was about Dopp/Poma putting in a brand NEW lift, not trying to have them do the relocation of the used lift. Not sure how much money this used lift will end up costing when all is said and done, although I'm still thinking it is likely less than a brand new lift would have been.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 22, 2022)

the ongoing issues and the unreliable low elevation snow caused me to not buy a magic sundays pass this season. two years ago i got major value out of it, probably spent 6 sundays at magic, and then also used indy days on two saturdays to make full weekends. last year, i think i used 1 indy day and 2 sundays. too much of a crapshoot. i can see myself buying it again when black is running and the snowmaking issues are resolved. i love to support them, love their vibe, and LOVE skiing serious terrain on sundays that is just under 4 hours from home. getting home at 6:30 is so nice.


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## ThatGuy (Nov 22, 2022)

Whether it is this season or next, there will be many substantial upgrades that have come to fruition. Expanded snowmaking, larger reservoir, new deck, Green, Red, and Black lifts plus the rope tow.
We can armchair quarterback and nitpick all we want (I am guilty of that myself) but in the end it will be long lasting, impactful upgrades that all who use the mountain will benefit from.
What a long strange trip its been…


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## raisingarizona (Nov 22, 2022)

Doo doo happens.


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## Newpylong (Nov 22, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Whether it is this season or next, there will be many substantial upgrades that have come to fruition. Expanded snowmaking, larger reservoir, new deck, Green, Red, and Black lifts plus the rope tow.
> We can armchair quarterback and nitpick all we want (I am guilty of that myself) but in the end it will be long lasting, impactful upgrades that all who use the mountain will benefit from.
> What a long strange trip its been…


I think you said better than I did.


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## NYDB (Nov 22, 2022)

cdskier said:


> icecoast's question was about Dopp/Poma putting in a brand NEW lift, not trying to have them do the relocation of the used lift. Not sure how much money this used lift will end up costing when all is said and done, although I'm still thinking it is likely less than a brand new lift would have been.


Don’t forget the ultimately misguided attempts to try and fix the old black lift .  i Believe that ended up costing in the multiple hundreds of thousands or at least 100k+

at the end of the day you do see progress like @ThatGuy guy mentioned, but it seems like they will be heading into another winter without a reliable summit lift.  Forget about redundancy.  It’s pretty obvious based on pfisters track record with magic and the amount of work that still needs to be done that Black isn’t spinning this winter. 

red has given a yeomans effort over the past 5 or so years but it always seems like they are a c unt hair away from that lift going down too, like last winter. 

As someone with a house nearby I just hope they make it.  This area needs a successful Magic for sure.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 22, 2022)

It aint easy resurrecting's a dead ski area.  It seems like they have the right people willing to try and work with what they have to make it work. Get the black running and the snow blowing and everyone will forget about this.  in the meantime, I'm sure its infinitely more frustrating for them than us.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 22, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> It aint easy resurrecting's a dead ski area.  It seems like they have the right people willing to try and work with what they have to make it work. Get the black running and the snow blowing and everyone will forget about this.  in the meantime, I'm sure its infinitely more frustrating for them than us.


totally. I think it's apparent that the owners and management want to create the best possible experience that they can but have limiting resources. It's gotta be frustrating for them.


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## skiatomic (Nov 22, 2022)

cdskier said:


> icecoast's question was about Dopp/Poma putting in a brand NEW lift, not trying to have them do the relocation of the used lift. Not sure how much money this used lift will end up costing when all is said and done, although I'm still thinking it is likely less than a brand new lift would have been.


This.   Just this.   A new lift?   On Magic budget.   

No chance.   Not right approach at this moment in time….

Who quoted the $1mm price of lift from Stratton.  Is that fact or estimate?   More latter than former.  

Install obviously has been higher…than estimate.


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## doublediamond (Nov 22, 2022)

The price of the Camden summit triple was about $1M from purchase, transport (from Pleasant Mtn), engineering, and install. That is a lot tamer of a lift. 3877x826 put in 8 years ago. Around that time new fixed grip lifts of similar dimensions were going for $2-2.5M.

New England Ski History is reporting Black cost $1.6M which seams cheap considering it’s a bigger lift, over harsher terrain, and 8 years newer.

If you can’t afford $1.8-2M for proper engineering and a new haul rope — as in done right the first time — you definitely can’t afford a $1.6M half-a$$ed project with issue after issue.

Could the issues have been solved if the tower tubes heights were modified? That’s commonly done in lift reinstalls. And extending or cutting tubes (or even fabricating a new tower) is easier that custom sourcing an in-house combo assembly design on a few towers.

Was there too much slack? Where did the extra rope come from? Black is longer than Snowbowl. Red is 5350 ft long while old Snowbowl is 4887 ft long. That’s 800 feet of extra cable needed.


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## skiatomic (Nov 22, 2022)

So h


doublediamond said:


> New England Ski History is reporting Black cost $1.6M which seams cheap considering it’s a bigger lift, over harsher terrain, and 8 years newer.


ow is that 1.6mm confirmed?


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## doublediamond (Nov 22, 2022)

cites Ski Area Managment.  

The Act 250 permit should have the cost on it too as the filing fee is based on the cost of the lift.


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## skiatomic (Nov 22, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> cites Ski Area Managment.
> 
> The Act 250 permit should have the cost on it too as the filing fee is based on the cost of the lift.


Is that broken down acquisition vs install cost?


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## cdskier (Nov 22, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> cites Ski Area Managment.
> 
> The Act 250 permit should have the cost on it too as the filing fee is based on the cost of the lift.



The ACT 250 permit application filing says 900K for the project cost (they described it in the application as "construction costs"). Since the application fee is based on project cost, what happens if a project goes over that cost? Obviously there would have been substantial costs added here after the fact due to re-engineering and the fabrication of all the new parts.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 22, 2022)

cdskier said:


> The ACT 250 permit application filing says 900K for the project cost (they described it in the application as "construction costs"). Since the application fee is based on project cost, what happens if a project goes over that cost? Obviously there would have been substantial costs added here after the fact due to re-engineering and the fabrication of all the new parts.


Good question


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## AdironRider (Nov 23, 2022)

Have they even completed the deck yet? Doesn’t sound like it.

These guys will have an empty and unable to be filled snowmaking pond, no access to the summit, and major work to be done on all before any of them come on line. 

The fact they had a new haul rope on site a year ago and tried to make the old one work is inexcusable. Combine that with 5 years of screwups, plus don’t forget last years red incident where incompetence led to chairs falling off the line while people were riding it, and it is clear they do not know what they are doing. I wouldn’t ride one of their lifts if you paid me. 

But they are the internet cool kids of ski area owners, so they have that going for them, which is nice.


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## zoomzoom (Nov 23, 2022)

a ski-lift design must satisfy a variety of load conditions on the lift line, i.e bare rope { no carriers }, empty carriers uphill/downhill, loaded carriers uphill/empty carriers downhill, downhill loading if requested, etc.  of course these conditions must be satisfied under both static and dynamic conditions.  min/max sheave loadings must be met under all conditions, with cable "lift-off" avoided always.  

it sounds complicated, but once lift specs are input { cable and carrier weights, survey data, line speeds, areas of minimum ground clearances , etc } are input, the program does the work.  no more slide rules!

to get tower loadings wrong is unusual but not unheard of.  take a look at the excavated area under the lift line at the very bottom of the K gondola, used to be called the  "valley plunge trail".  when the cabins were loaded onto the line for the first time, they dragged along the ground there.  : )

am wondering if there was a "bust" in the line survey used for the calcs on the black, that would explain a lot.


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## slatham (Nov 23, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Have they even completed the deck yet? Doesn’t sound like it.
> 
> These guys will have an empty and unable to be filled snowmaking pond, no access to the summit, and major work to be done on all before any of them come on line.
> 
> ...



Pretty much all the above is incorrect.

Deck will be completed this week.

Snowmaking pond refill started last week and final approval for a full fill granted today.

Red lift is fully operational, with the chair welding to be completed well before 12/15 opening.

Black haul rope arrived this summer, it has not be onsite for a year.

No chairs fell off Red while operational (this however maybe splitting hairs as chairs did "slip" which I agree is unaccpetble)

Maybe the last point is accurate........


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## hughconway (Nov 23, 2022)

slatham said:


> Pretty much all the above is incorrect.
> 
> Deck will be completed this week.
> 
> ...



Red is not 'fully operational' until the welding work is completed and has been inspected.

And yes, a chair DID fall off the red double line last winter during the surge issues with the new drive.  An unloaded chair on the downhill side of the rope hit a tower and fell from the line.  I've seen the photographs.  I seem to recall that it was chair #1 sitting in the snow, but I could be mistaken.  Absolute 100%, inexcusable negligence.  It's a miracle no one was seriously injured or killed.  

I can't speculate about the status of the deck, but final approval on the snowmaking pond doesn't mean a ton when they still don't have the ability to pump water (that doesn't yet exist) to their main pumphouse and distribute it across the mountain.

People seem to ignore/forget the fact that the guy in charge of Magic comes from a Madison Ave marketing background and has been basically blowing smoke up everyones a$$es to cover up for a never ending string of broken promises.


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## Newpylong (Nov 23, 2022)

Botched projects aside, if it wasn't for the guy with the "Madison Ave" marketing background Magic would be NELSAPPED.

You're a piece of work...


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## slatham (Nov 23, 2022)

Sorry to re-post smoke from a "Madison Ave" marketing guy, but latest update below.

Not sure where someone got the idea they can't pump from pond to pump house. Sure that was the case a month ago but that work is done. And the pond has been filling for a week, so with r*#@ coming and the ability to pump from other sources into the pond they will have enough for the short windows next week, and to go full bore when serious cold temps arrive (hopefully) the week of 12/5.

Apologies for not recalling that a Red chair fell from the line. That was a serious issue that is now committed to my otherwise failing memory.....

PS: The email had a picture of the haul rope for those skeptics out there.
___________

Some good news to report as the State of Vermont gave final approval for the new snowmaking pond dam and infrastructure today. This new dam has been one of our major goals to insure the long-term business sustainability and viability of Magic for future generations by enlarging the size of our pond (doubling) as snowmaking in the era of climate change takes on increasing urgency for our ski area.

While timing was held up a couple of weeks by multiple testing procedures which caused us to miss this last week's cold snowmaking temps, the approval now allows us to refill the pond to its new higher level and begin withdrawals from the pond as well. I'd like to thank the crew at Hunter Excavating here in Londonderry, as well as our own Josh Hearne and Mike Smilovich, for persevering through the many twists and turns of this project from an engineering stand point. Now Josh can get out of the excavator and back into the Black Line Tavern just in time for its re-opening this Friday, Saturday and Sunday!

With water now flowing into the pond, our snowmaking team, led by Andrew Starr, is anxious to light up some guns. They have guns ready at the summit and down Upper Magic Carpet to the top of Trick if we get any sustained night time temps up top. During the day through the end of November, we will be looking a bit too warm but the first full week of December is projected to get back to sustained cold which should help us with our mid-December planned opening. When we do turn on snowmaking, we'll be using new larger 8" pipe from the pond to the pumphouse which will increase the efficiency of our efforts. So, Think Cold!

Now for our other major, ever-longer project of installing the Black Line Quad: Pfister Mountain Services finished installing all the re-engineered tower sheave assemblies, with more work to do on tower alignment so the haul rope runs smoothly. Then, last Friday, the State Tramway Authority informed us that the current Quad haul rope will not be certified to run this winter. While this will cause more delays and difficulties, especially with the weather now, we had taken pre-cautions early this summer to order and pay for a new haul rope for the Quad just in case something like this happened. The new rope arrived from Europe two weeks ago and is at the base of the Quad. We will be working with Pfister to plan out how to execute the remaining line work while also having to take all the chairs off the line and then put them back on the new haul rope once installed and spliced. Certainly this is another unwanted obstacle to overcome, but we are determined to see this through to the finish line and will do all that we can to try having the Quad running at some point this winter. As always, we'll keep you posted right here on developments.


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## Dickc (Nov 23, 2022)

I would think that they can run Black EMPTY so as to align the sheaves with the chairs on the line.  While its not certified to run loaded this winter, I would think they can run it without people on it for alignment work (unless I misunderstood something in Slatham's above post).  Then they remove chairs, install the new rope, reinstall chiars, and finish any testing needed, then load test for the state.  Sounds completely doable this season.


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## Newpylong (Nov 23, 2022)

Yes, that is what they have to do most likely.


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## ss20 (Nov 23, 2022)

Curious how the rope failed inspection.  Couldn't have worn much since it was taken down at Stratton.  You'd think while building a new-to-you lift you'd inspect the old rope and replace it if it was past 70% of it's life while you had the equipment and people in place already...


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## Dickc (Nov 23, 2022)

I am kind of wondering if something Hugh Conway said is the actual reason.  He mentioned that Magic had a waiver to use the old haul rope, and the above posted by Slatham seems to indicate the state did not actually go on site and check the haul rope.  It might have been OK'ed by the state based on its age and condition a few years ago, but is now beyond years in age, and as such, its considered no good even though it has not had additional wear cycles by running.  I looked on the web for NDT of wire haul ropes, and just could not make hide nor hair of the gobbledy gook that came up.  YMMV.

The above by me is just a WAG (wild A** Guess) on my part.


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## skiatomic (Nov 23, 2022)

Pond looks great.  So many improvements in the snowmaking system and not all are obvious.  Little steps are important for an area like Magic.  

Deck honestly…who cares until 12/15??

Quad is a whole other story…engineer cannot get of totally blameless in this issue.   

Saw Hugh Conway at the Job Fair.   I hope he gets the job he applied for as CEO.   He definitely seems qualified.


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## doublediamond (Nov 23, 2022)

I doubt it was a botched survey. That’d be found out if when fully loaded the chairs were too low.

Could either of the bad towers have been installed incorrectly? As in the footing was put in too high or too low or at the wrong position on the line. IIRC there was a rumor there was a tower issue holding up the Green for a long time.


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## ne_skier (Nov 26, 2022)

I'm completely untrained and somewhat uninformed regarding this issue, but my general idea is that whether or not Magic can pull off Black for some time this winter depends on a) does Pfister actually show up and b) does this work entail bringing some non-snow vehicle or piece of equipment up a snowy mountain. The latter was the issue last winter, as snowmaking had to be done on the access road to open the mountain. Not going to bother ranting about what went right/wrong throughout this whole process because thanks to Mr. Conway's blurtings I've already done such about 5 times in this thread. 
Meanwhile it's nice to see the other projects coming along nicely - snowmaking should be a huge upgrade and the extra deck space will be nice and perhaps eliminate the need for the Covid tent. Any word on if that cool firepit area's still there or if it got decked over?


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2022)

I struggle to believe Pfister is to blame here, especially if they "actually show up".  They have a track record of getting their projects done.  I doubt much blame falls on them... probably some, sure.  The way I see it, lifts get relocated and built in a single off-season, typically.  OK, pandemic, Catamount bit off more than they could chew and it took 2 seasons to build a relocated quad and 1.5 seasons to build a relocated triple.  

This was the 4th construction season for Black (5th if you include the delay due to permitting).  Don't tell me it's Pfister, who is a _used ski lift installer_, taking 4x more time than usual for a routine re-install of a used lift (a relatively modern lift at that).  

It is ridiculous at this point and the issues with Red (especially in the SAFETY realm) are not a good look for Magic's in-house crew as much as it pains me to say it.  Just a lot of weirdness and Black is not a fluke- Green delays (although that's not a knock as they never promised an opening as they have with Black).  Original Black chair attempts at revival (years worth).  Red having issues (fine it's a 50+ year old lift but trying to operate it with a surging drive?  No excuse there).  

And while I can't ski Magic anymore I had a pass there with the new ownership group for 2 or 3 seasons.  Skied there 2-3 times a year when I didn't have a pass either- just buying tickets the first year or 2 then an Indy pass my last year.  The mountain is the literal backyard of my old ski club's ski house.  I'm not a "hater" but you can't ignore facts because it's not "good vibes".


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## Newpylong (Nov 28, 2022)

You certainly cannot blame Pjister for the engineering issue. We don't know the whole story and like most non "big two" installs it was Stevens Engineering who stamped it.

That said, I've mentioned several times that Magic is not his only customer. When you're essentially the only outfit in the East that does work on everyone's old janky lifts you're going to be spread mighty thin. Tim jumps on emergencies and issues that prevent people from opening first. If he had zero other customers that lift would have been spinning already if not last season. But thems the breaks.


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## NYDB (Nov 28, 2022)

I wonder if the engineering firm had some professional liability from that miscalc.  Maybe magic got to recoup some costs from their e&o insurance.


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## AdironRider (Nov 28, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> You certainly cannot blame Pjister for the engineering issue. We don't know the whole story and like most non "big two" installs it was Stevens Engineering who stamped it.
> 
> That said, I've mentioned several times that Magic is not his only customer. When you're essentially the only outfit in the East that does work on everyone's old janky lifts you're going to be spread mighty thin. Tim jumps on emergencies and issues that prevent people from opening first. If he had zero other customers that lift would have been spinning already if not last season. But thems the breaks.



That excuse sailed a long time ago. This problem (aka a used lift taking over 5 years to install) does not exist elsewhere and is 100% on Magic at this point, not the subcontractor who is just following orders and probably being ignored when proposing solutions. Which brings me to my next point....

Frankly, it is becoming clearer and clearer that Magic is living hand to mouth if you ask me. These "investors" are really you guys who keep buying the marketing fluff and excusing away blatant mismanagement. You see it elsewhere, like their welching on discounts if it snows the day of as just one example. Businesses with a solid cash footing don't do shit like that. You know who won't show up immediately when called, critical subcontractors who aren't get paid timely or are unsure if the money is there. 

Not spending money you don't have is good business, but not when you make boneheaded decisions like buying a used lift you can't afford in the first place.


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## urungus (Nov 28, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Frankly, it is becoming clearer and clearer that Magic is living hand to mouth if you ask me. These "investors" are really you guys who keep buying the marketing fluff and excusing away blatant mismanagement. You see it elsewhere, like their welching on discounts if it snows the day of as just one example. Businesses with a solid cash footing don't do shit like that. You know who won't show up immediately when called, critical subcontractors who aren't get paid timely or are unsure if the money is there.
> 
> Not spending money you don't have is good business, but not when you make boneheaded decisions like buying a used lift you can't afford in the first place.



Do you have any actual evidence that Magic is having financial problems ?  Other than not liking their clearly published powder day policy ?  Don’t recall hearing about any lawsuits from unpaid creditors.   And they have been limiting the number of passes and tickets they sell, strange thing to do if they are struggling finically…


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## ThatGuy (Nov 28, 2022)

Playing Devils Advocate here but Vail limits their ticket sales as well. If you set the limit above whats reasonably expected is that truly a limit or a marketing gimmick?


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## Newpylong (Nov 28, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> That excuse sailed a long time ago. This problem (aka a used lift taking over 5 years to install) does not exist elsewhere and is 100% on Magic at this point, not the subcontractor who is just following orders and probably being ignored when proposing solutions. Which brings me to my next point....
> 
> Frankly, it is becoming clearer and clearer that Magic is living hand to mouth if you ask me. These "investors" are really you guys who keep buying the marketing fluff and excusing away blatant mismanagement. You see it elsewhere, like their welching on discounts if it snows the day of as just one example. Businesses with a solid cash footing don't do shit like that. You know who won't show up immediately when called, critical subcontractors who aren't get paid timely or are unsure if the money is there.
> 
> Not spending money you don't have is good business, but not when you make boneheaded decisions like buying a used lift you can't afford in the first place.



Not sure I typed an excuse. I made a statement that if the contractor was not essentially the sole vendor in New England for this type of work the schedule likely would have pulled in a season. I've worked with Tim on many occasions and know full well how he works and what his typical workload looks like. I know where he's been when not at Magic.

Beyond that point, of course it's all on Magic one way or another.

However you're making some huge assumptions in the remainder of your post. If you think passholders or day traffic is footing the bill for these hugely capitally intensive projects then you have no idea what the books look like of a typical ski area. Not something I can fault someone on though. That said, I do, and passes and day tickets / other operational revenue are keeping the lights on, paying insurance, paying for electricity and fuel, and floating payroll. Someone else believes in what is going and is footing the bill for these projects and your Magic Hat #9 at the Black Line is not it. So, the associated finger pointing of who or who isn't falling for marketing fluff is kinda irrelevant and uncalled for.


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## AdironRider (Nov 28, 2022)

urungus said:


> Do you have any actual evidence that Magic is having financial problems ?  Other than not liking their clearly published powder day policy ?  Don’t recall hearing about any lawsuits from unpaid creditors.   And they have been limiting the number of passes and tickets they sell, strange thing to do if they are struggling finically…



Nothing other than their actions. 

And FYI "limiting" day ticket sales is not actually a limit on the number of sold, it is a technique to get you to pre-buy and then allow a mountain to cut costs by staffing to reserved business levels. AKA, we only have 1000 tickets on the books today, so we won't staff for 2000 people possibly showing up. Ever notice not a single mountain actually posts the number of tickets they are "limiting" sales to. That's why.


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## AdironRider (Nov 28, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Not sure I typed an excuse. I made a statement that if the contractor was not essentially the sole vendor in New England for this type of work the schedule likely would have pulled in a season. I've worked with Tim on many occasions and know full well how he works and what his typical workload looks like. I know where he's been when not at Magic.
> 
> Beyond that point, of course it's all on Magic one way or another.
> 
> However you're making some huge assumptions in the remainder of your post. If you think passholders or day traffic is footing the bill for these hugely capitally intensive projects then you have no idea what the books look like of a typical ski area. Not something I can fault someone on though. That said, I do, and passes and day tickets / other operational revenue are keeping the lights on, paying insurance, paying for electricity and fuel, and floating payroll. Someone else is footing the bill for these projects and your Magic Hat #9 at the Black Line is not it. So, the associated finger pointing of who or who isn't falling for marketing fluff is off base and uncalled for.



Get outta here that capital projects aren't funded by customers. There literally is not a business on earth that isn't reliant on capital projects being funded by usage.

Otherwise it is not a business. Investors might allow you to spend more money up front, but they are expecting to be paid back. And frankly, if Magic has investors that deep, they wouldn't be taking going on 5+ years to install a crappy used ski lift.

If anything the black ordeal proves they don't really have the resources you say they do, because if they did, the project would be complete by now.


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## Newpylong (Nov 28, 2022)

Sounds like you got it all figured out then.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 28, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> If anything the black ordeal proves they don't really have the resources you say they do, because if they did, the project would be complete by now.



I mean if there were multiple lift contractors that did this work, sure.  Based on several different people there aren't.  There is one, so I'm not sure if Magic had money to wave around they could "lure" Pfister to the site to finish the job. 

I also don't disagree with a lot yours, and others "negative" opinions or perceptions.  Again if they get both lifts operational and all of the other things they've resurected this will all be an  afterthought.


----------



## ThatGuy (Nov 28, 2022)

Everyone should be able to agree it was a blunder to keep stating completion dates for Black. Just get it done like Green was. Regardless, open is better than NELSAP’ed in my eyes.


----------



## ss20 (Nov 28, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Everyone should be able to agree it was a blunder to keep stating completion dates for Black. Just get it done like Green was. Regardless, open is better than NELSAP’ed in my eyes.



Yes 1000%.  That's my biggest issue in this whole saga.  Magic would be at no fault if they hadn't advertised the completion of the lift the last 4 seasons.  But the completion of Black and having a 2nd summit lift for reliability has been falsely advertised for years now as a selling point.


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 28, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Everyone should be able to agree it was a blunder to keep stating completion dates for Black. Just get it done like Green was. Regardless, open is better than NELSAP’ed in my eyes.


Agreed that it is best to see it open, but pointing to the Green Chair is not a great argument because that took YEARS and multiple owners to build. If you are saying that this regime got it done, then sure, there is some credence there.

Bottom line is that this is a very tough business. As the old saying goes, "you make a small fortune in the ski business by investing a large one." It would have been very easy to get in way over their heads financially and be NELSAPed. But trying to keep it floating and doing this ambitious project is obviously straining for a single ski area with limited resources.


----------



## cdskier (Nov 28, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> This problem (aka a used lift taking over 5 years to install) does not exist elsewhere and is 100% on Magic at this point, not the subcontractor who is just following orders and probably being ignored when proposing solutions.


Can you cite another lift that while being relocated had someone make a rather substantial mistake in the engineering design and also happened to have a global pandemic in the middle that significantly disrupted global supply chains? This problem does not exist elsewhere because it is pretty unique and has simply not occurred elsewhere. So we have no idea how any one else would have handled it. I'm not sure that any amount of money thrown at it would have allowed you to get the new parts fabricated any faster. And based on other comments about there being essentially only 1 company around that does this sort of work (once it is engineered properly), again, not sure any amount of money thrown at it would have allowed it to be completed faster.

Can Magic be faulted for announcing dates that were not even close to being met? Absolutely 100%. Can they be faulted for not just planning to replace the haul rope right off the bat as part of the reinstall? Possibly...but hard to say without knowing more details about haul rope life expectancy and the condition of it when the lift was sold to them. But can they be faulted for the engineer screwing up? Or massive supply chain issues causing delays? I say no to both of those...

I've made this point before, but I see people criticizing things they chose to do, but never in those criticisms do I see any realistic ideas on what viable alternatives there were that could have allowed this to be completed quicker. As someone else recently said, once these projects are finally completed, Magic will be in a much better position than they've possibly ever been. Sure better than them going NELSAP... And I say all this from a position that I consider as a relatively neutral outsider. I have no stake in Magic's success and have never even skied there. I'm just bothered by some of the unrealistic criticisms and expectations some people have. Substantial delays in projects even undertaken by large companies with tons of cash to throw at them happen all the time. They just aren't usually as publicly visible as this one.


----------



## SkiNewEngland.net (Nov 28, 2022)

cdskier said:


> Can you cite another lift that while being relocated had someone make a rather substantial mistake in the engineering design and also happened to have a global pandemic in the middle that significantly disrupted global supply chains? This problem does not exist elsewhere because it is pretty unique and has simply not occurred elsewhere.


New Bousquet Lift Opens; New Magic Lift Delayed Again


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## cdskier (Nov 28, 2022)

SkiNewEngland.net said:


> New Bousquet Lift Opens; New Magic Lift Delayed Again


Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't sound like the Bousquet issue required any design and fabrication of new parts (only realigning several towers is what I see mentioned in several articles)...so not quite an apples to apples comparison.


----------



## AdironRider (Nov 28, 2022)

Come up with all the excuses you want, but this wasn’t the first used lift installation in the world, and it won’t be the last. All of them have hurdles to overcome, yet only Magic has taken this long. Implying Magic is in some unique scenario never before seen is pure hogwash.


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## tnt1234 (Nov 29, 2022)

Can someone give us the cliff notes on the Black install and the engineering mistakes?


----------



## doublediamond (Nov 29, 2022)

From what I gather…

Magic installed used Snow Bowl Quad from Stratton. The original lift was shorter with a mellower lift line. Magic tried to shoehorn in the lift base to top of Red. How they got the rope long enough is up for question.

Problem 1 — Magic knew the rope was old and wouldn’t be certified. They installed it anyways rather than buying a new rope.

Problem 2 — There was some error in survey/construction/engineering and the rope would fall off the downhill sheaves on a couple towers once it was loaded with chairs. 

Problem 3 — This is an old lift with odd components. No one had combo assemblies to sell to Magic. Magic had to custom make their own.

We’re now 5 years into a 1 year job…


----------



## tnt1234 (Nov 29, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> From what I gather…
> 
> Magic installed used Snow Bowl Quad from Stratton. The original lift was shorter with a mellower lift line. Magic tried to shoehorn in the lift base to top of Red. How they got the rope long enough is up for question.
> 
> ...


Ugh.

What sort of engineering error causes the rope to fall off?  Mis-alignment of towers?

Is the combo assemblies the answer to the rope falling off?

Jeez...not sure I want to ride a lift that has that kind of probelm!

Yikes.


----------



## IceEidolon (Nov 29, 2022)

T


tnt1234 said:


> Ugh.
> 
> What sort of engineering error causes the rope to fall off?  Mis-alignment of towers?
> 
> ...


That was the engineering fuckup (not on Pfister) that's caused most of the delays. They had the haul rope spliced to the new length, they had all the towers up, they had the lift testing (which is meant to catch exactly this kind of issue) and found a significant problem. That problem isn't really Magic's fault and it's definitely not Pfister's, it's on the third party engineer. 

Now, the process of getting the remanufactured/redesigned equipment installed? That's more ambiguous. By my read, though, if the alignment had been correct on initial assembly the lift would either have been ready, or failed for a new haul rope, sometime two seasons ago and would have been running with a new haul rope last season. I don't know how you're supposed to mitigate your engineer messing up like that aside from not sharing projected completion dates at all.


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 29, 2022)

It's hard to say without having the whole story, but a lift profile has different load points depending on tower location. So obviously the assemblies at every tower have to be appropriate for the load calcs at that location. Some locations are under extreme tension (usually breakover or under) while some tend to slack. As to how this actually came to be, until someone from Magic tells the full story, we're just throwing darts, but it's obvious there was a design issue and when the lift began to be loaded the downhill side did not play nice.


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## skimagic (Nov 29, 2022)

Montana Snowbowl's Snowpark lift, a used double,  was announced as opening in 2017. and then 2018.  Given multiple issues with the install , it didn't open until 2020, and was shut down for a brief period shortly thereafter to deal with new issues.  so no, install issues with old lifts is not unprecedented.


AdironRider said:


> Come up with all the excuses you want, but this wasn’t the first used lift installation in the world, and it won’t be the last. All of them have hurdles to overcome, yet only Magic has taken this long. Implying Magic is in some unique scenario never before seen is pure hogwash.


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## drjeff (Nov 29, 2022)

skimagic said:


> Montana Snowbowl's Snowpark lift, a used double,  was announced as opening in 2017. and then 2018.  Given multiple issues with the install , it didn't open until 2020, and was shut down for a brief period shortly thereafter to deal with new issues.  so no, install issues with old lifts is not unprecedented.


Unprecendented - No

More of the anomaly than the typical experience - yes

Ultimately the planing ahead of time is often what has the greatest affect on the outcome and the timeline to go from start to finish


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## AdironRider (Nov 29, 2022)

This Magic install almost doubling the Montana Snowbowl situation at this point, but yeah sure, totally equal. 

The excuses never end for this mountain. Any other place would be roasted. Hell, the last owner of Magic was given nowhere near the current level of slack current ownership gets.


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## NYDB (Nov 29, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Yes 1000%.  That's my biggest issue in this whole saga.  Magic would be at no fault if they hadn't advertised the completion of the lift the last 4 seasons.  But the completion of Black and having a 2nd summit lift for reliability has been falsely advertised for years now as a selling point.


Its Still happening. 
https://www.reformer.com/business/w...cle_b7d55da6-43fa-11ed-af93-7b1203784c6e.html

https://www.bostonherald.com/2022/11/23/ski-wednesday-vermont-options-entice/

These are recent articles.  It’s a bad look.


----------



## machski (Dec 1, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> This Magic install almost doubling the Montana Snowbowl situation at this point, but yeah sure, totally equal.
> 
> The excuses never end for this mountain. Any other place would be roasted. Hell, the last owner of Magic was given nowhere near the current level of slack current ownership gets.


Could that possibly be because while they've had major hitches, the improvements they have gotten through have increased the experience for their guests?  I have seen large investments in snowmaking, trail and glade work, etc.  The product you ski on ses to improve year over year.  I would expect similar this season.  I'm sure management wishes they had the capital to go complete new now on Black.  But they likely didn't have access to that amount at the front.  It is possible the total install $ will total or exceed a new lift in the end though.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 1, 2022)

Given the sweetheart deal they got on Black and recent public statements, I think they're still comfortably under "new equivalent lift" price tags.

I agree that if they hadn't made substantial upgrades to the guest experience there wouldn't be nearly the amount of goodwill. Getting Green Lift, Lower Magic Carpet, Vertigo, Sorcerer, etc. online, plus seeing more snowmaking on every trail that's traditionally had snowmaking? Better food and beverage options? All the other little things that have gone right or have gotten done - it all ads up. They're definitely drawing down that store of goodwill with the Black Lift delays, but we'll see how it all shakes out with a potential haul rope replacement during the season (or one more season offline).


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 1, 2022)

Whats the life expectancy of a used lift vs a new install? Was that lift used heavily at Stratton?


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> Whats the life expectancy of a used lift vs a new install? Was that lift used heavily at Stratton?



I heard Bill Cairns (? sp), the GM of Bromley, on a recent storm skiing podcast, when talking about the life expectancy of many of Bromley's old Hall doubles, mention that with some upgrades in some of the operational and communication systems that 50+ years for a lift with regular maintenace is fairly reasonable, and that often what may require an old lift to be replaced if it's capacity is reasonable is a lack of ability over time to find any needed replacement parts.

The old Snowbowl Quad that Magic got from Stratton I am guessing had low hours on it, as it basically ran only weekends and holidays and isolate times when winds may have affected summit access via other lifts. And the Poma Alpha style lift that it is, is a long standing workhorse in the fixed grip side of the industry that is still available for purchase from Leitner-Poma today with basically minor changes to the alpha's they were selling for the last multiple decades as I understand it And much easier to find parts for once they get it up and running than for the Red


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## ss20 (Dec 1, 2022)

drjeff said:


> I heard Bill Cairns (? sp), the GM of Bromley, on a recent storm skiing podcast, when talking about the life expectancy of many of Bromley's old Hall doubles, mention that with some upgrades in some of the operational and communication systems that 50+ years for a lift with regular maintenace is fairly reasonable, and that often what may require an old lift to be replaced if it's capacity is reasonable is a lack of ability over time to find any needed replacement parts.
> 
> The old Snowbowl Quad that Magic got from Stratton I am guessing had low hours on it, as it basically ran only weekends and holidays and isolate times when winds may have affected summit access via other lifts. And the Poma Alpha style lift that it is, is a long standing workhorse in the fixed grip side of the industry that is still available for purchase from Leitner-Poma today with basically minor changes to the alpha's they were selling for the last multiple decades as I understand it And much easier to find parts for once they get it up and running than for the Red



It is worth noting too, that usually with really old lifts its the concrete tower footings which are the "weakest link" and when those go, the lift goes.  Given these will be new footings, 50 years is not unreasonable.

There are numerous lifts from the 1960s still running.  Killington's poma on Snowdon is from the late 50s and that was relocated to Ramshead for the race venue there.  They wouldn't have done that if they didn't think it still had life in it.  There is a double chair from 1958 that is SBNO at White Pass, WA.  Apparently it did run up until the late 2010s.  In fact the entire PNW is littered with ancient lifts that are still running, some of the oldest in the country.


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## slatham (Dec 1, 2022)

The new pond is just about full. Most water at hand in decades.

So there’s that……


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2022)

slatham said:


> The new pond is just about full. Most water at hand in decades.
> 
> So there’s that……


Now we just need to get mother nature to get into an extended cold run without intermittent warm up + liquid events so they can atleast get the green open and then hopefully get the work on the red's chairs completed and get it carrying folks up the hill


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## slatham (Dec 1, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Now we just need to get mother nature to get into an extended cold run without intermittent warm up + liquid events so they can atleast get the green open and then hopefully get the work on the red's chairs completed and get it carrying folks up the hill


Highly confident they’re going directly for summit access for opening day. Temps continue to step down and get more favorable over the next week - which will help -  though still some bad storms to come through. Then maybe a complete pattern change to cold, but still not a done deal…..


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## ne_skier (Dec 1, 2022)

ss20 said:


> It is worth noting too, that usually with really old lifts its the concrete tower footings which are the "weakest link" and when those go, the lift goes.


Saddleback's old Rangeley Double had this issue, as annoying as its slowness and low capacity was (I'm speaking from what I've heard, I don't ski there), it was deteriorating tower footings that made the lift inoperable and caused Saddleback's closure. MRG's single was in a similar situation, but due to the love that lift had from MRG's skiers the mountain opted for a refurbishment instead. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a factor in Black's replacement as well, among hundreds of other factors of course. From pictures I've seen online the footings did look pretty nasty toward the end of its life, and since Black's towers were sunk into the concrete as opposed to bolted on such as Red's they wouldn't really be able to replace them even if they wanted to. I suspect this will be an issue with Riblet lifts in the future, as they did the same thing in the 1960s.

Outside of footings, which I won't touch on since I'm not a concrete expert, I think Magic's lift system will be pretty solid once Black is installed, outside of occasional maintenance and problem-solving, of course. Poma Alphas, like Black, are like cockroaches: They never die and they're fucking everywhere. Those combo sheave assemblies that Magic needed might be the one thing they'd actually have to remanufacture for that lift instead of just buying used. While Herons like Red are older and rarer, they still do seem to perform well for their age and while spare parts are likely harder to come by than Poma Alphas it's still not an SLI-type situation. I'm not aware of Borvigs being regarded as the most reliable lifts in the world, but Green having been installed only 4 years ago should trump that in terms of its longevity.


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## Newpylong (Dec 2, 2022)

They should not need to ever fabricate more sheaves for that lift again. The wheels themselves will last forever they will just need to periodically do line work on them (liners, bearings, etc) as any other lift.


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## Dickc (Dec 2, 2022)

As far as green goes, Borvig went out of business years ago, but his son is Partek, and does service and sell parts for the old Borvigs.


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## NYDB (Dec 2, 2022)

slatham said:


> The new pond is just about full. Most water at hand in decades.
> 
> So there’s that……


Between this Saturday,  and next Tuesday and Wednesday their pond will be overflowing.


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## slatham (Dec 2, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Between this Saturday,  and next Tuesday and Wednesday their pond will be overflowing.


Yup. But hopefully thereafter the anticipated pattern change occurs and they can put that water, in an improved form, back on the hill.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 5, 2022)

I'm genuinely curious if they go for a solid green chair opening or a TTB that counts on more going right/more production. From past performance they could get Green to Showoff or Hocus Pocus or Lower Carpet in this weather window and be solid. Top to bottom Carpet to Showoff adds, what, another 2000' of trail compared to just Green on down?


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## skiatomic (Dec 5, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I'm genuinely curious if they go for a solid green chair opening or a TTB that counts on more going right/more production. From past performance they could get Green to Showoff or Hocus Pocus or Lower Carpet in this weather window and be solid. Top to bottom Carpet to Showoff adds, what, another 2000' of trail compared to just Green on down?


I’m ok with solid green opening.   Tough weather pattern.   

Have they stated one plan vs other yet?


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## Newpylong (Dec 5, 2022)

Unless weather turns for the better IMO there aren't enough snowmaking hours for even a Green opening any time soon. A couple short windows that dip into the low 20s later this week and that's it. The rest is junk, but hopefully that changes.


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## slatham (Dec 5, 2022)

Planned opening day is the 15th, so 10 days. 12 to the weekend.

Forecast model mayhem is causing even the medium range to be in question. For instance Saturday at 4am Euro has Rutland at 23, GFS 37! That is THiS coming Saturday, not the 17th! This is all caused by the long awaited but delayed pattern change that the models have been having trouble with. Pro meteorologists think the pattern does change and it gets colder and snowier, maybe starting this weekend. But jury is still out…..

One reason they may go for summit is because they may get windows up top while lower mountain temps are marginal, so better to make snow only up top than not at all. Obviously either way they need good temps down low. But I agree that if time is short and temps are good down low, focusing on Wand to Showoff off of Green makes sense.

Fingers crossed on pattern change. Some scenarios if it were to happen are rather fun……


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 6, 2022)

slatham said:


> Planned opening day is the 15th, so 10 days. 12 to the weekend.
> 
> Forecast model mayhem is causing even the medium range to be in question. For instance Saturday at 4am Euro has Rutland at 23, GFS 37! That is THiS coming Saturday, not the 17th! This is all caused by the long awaited but delayed pattern change that the models have been having trouble with. Pro meteorologists think the pattern does change and it gets colder and snowier, maybe starting this weekend. But jury is still out…..
> 
> ...



yea, single chair weather blog was getting super excited about blocking over Greenland forcing storms to stall over the northeast. but so far we just have today and tomorrow rain sitting on us.


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## tumbler (Dec 6, 2022)

Single Chair blog is all hype.  I've stopped reading it because he is generally wrong or grossly exaggerates the potential snow totals.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 6, 2022)

Personally, if I was calling it I'd go for Green to Showoff first, but with rats up top to prep for a Plan B of Trick to Showoff. That's about the least snow possible to get both chairs viable, it lets you run a bunch of low E towers on middle/lower Trick potentially plus your portable low E and fans on Showoff as the weather improves, and if you end up not getting temps down low one day you just keep running the top of Carpet and Trick.

Just go out willing to shut off any Trick/Summit guns you need to for air to connect Green to Showoff to Green loading area, since you have to have that to open either option.


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## NYDB (Dec 6, 2022)

Looks like about 48 hours of snowmaking temps from now until 15th.   Wand To show off is about all they’ll be able to get I would think, if they are even able to open.  
would love to see a route from the summit but I don’t think that’s possible with the current forecast.


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## lee (Dec 8, 2022)

yeah agreed.


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## Keelhauled (Dec 8, 2022)

Well according to their alpine update they can't make snow anyway because the pipe from pond to pumphouse is partially plugged, so the temperatures are a moot point. 

In other good news, Pfister has apparently stopped returning their calls.


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## tumbler (Dec 8, 2022)

I can't believe they put that in writing on the website that Pfister won't return their calls.  Good luck getting that lift done now.


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## NYDB (Dec 8, 2022)

tumbler said:


> I can't believe they put that in writing on the website that Pfister won't return their calls.  Good luck getting that lift done now.


Yeah wtf?  I doubt pfister gives a shit but it seems super unprofessional to post that on your website.  Frustration getting the best of them.


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## NYDB (Dec 8, 2022)

Keelhauled said:


> Well according to their alpine update they can't make snow anyway because the pipe from pond to pumphouse is partially plugged, so the temperatures are a moot point.
> 
> In other good news, Pfister has apparently stopped returning their calls.


Yikes.  Anyone hear anything about how the welding on the red chairs is going?


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## ThatGuy (Dec 8, 2022)

Stated like a teenager whose crush won’t return their unrequited attention.
Hope that pond issue isn’t anything major…not looking good.


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## cdskier (Dec 8, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Yeah wtf?  I doubt pfister gives a shit but it seems super unprofessional to post that on your website.  Frustration getting the best of them.



Agreed...the right way to say this would have been something more along the lines of "As for the quad, we're waiting to hear back from Pfister on a date when they will be able to resume working on it".


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## Newpylong (Dec 8, 2022)

That is bad... on the language and the pond.


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## Bosco DaSkia (Dec 8, 2022)

Hugh Conway is never wrong.



Fact.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 8, 2022)

So here is the actual update:






						Alpine Update | Magic Mountain Ski Area
					






					magicmtn.com


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## tumbler (Dec 8, 2022)

Me thinks Hugh might work for Pfister...


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 8, 2022)

wow...  I guess their trying to show their faithful they are equally as frustrated but that is closed door shit not for public consumption.


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## drjeff (Dec 8, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Yikes.  Anyone hear anything about how the welding on the red chairs is going?


My hunch is that no news likley isn't good news on that front all things considered. 

Throwing a line in like "the the work on the Red is done and it will be ready to spin when the snow is there", or something similar would of been atleast something postive ops wise in that blog

With the snowmaking pipe feed from the pond, since based on pcitures I have seen posted, it doesn't seem like some large branch would of been close enough to the pond to be drawn into the feeder pipe, so I am wondering if it's something like not letting the soil in the base of the pond settle enough before filling and thus a bunch of mud got drawn into the pipe and created an obstruction, or maybe some rocks that may have been placed on the base on the pond near the intake were drawn into the pipe and created the obstruction?


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## zyk (Dec 8, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> So here is the actual update:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So from what I gather its all about the vibe... And the bar is open.  So maybe drink heavily and lament the current state of affairs?

I want them to succeed so I can ski there again but for now I'll raise a glass and wish them success.


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## slatham (Dec 8, 2022)

Re: Red chair, they have two in-house welders, so this shouldn’t be an issue. 

The pond pump is the unfortunate but not too unexpected result of not being able to test the system due to delay in pond completion and approval. Yes no way to predict this specific issue, but testing is done to catch these types of things - which ALWAYS crop up - in October, and they couldn’t do that. 

How frustrating it is to have done all the pond work, and have all that water, and a working pump, but a broken connection. It’s easy for us to be Monday morning quarterbacks and critics, but I feel for Geoff and team who are working their butts off to get the mountain open.


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## machski (Dec 8, 2022)

slatham said:


> Re: Red chair, they have two in-house welders, so this shouldn’t be an issue.
> 
> The pond pump is the unfortunate but not too unexpected result of not being able to test the system due to delay in pond completion and approval. Yes no way to predict this specific issue, but testing is done to catch these types of things - which ALWAYS crop up - in October, and they couldn’t do that.
> 
> How frustrating it is to have done all the pond work, and have all that water, and a working pump, but a broken connection. It’s easy for us to be Monday morning quarterbacks and critics, but I feel for Geoff and team who are working their butts off to get the mountain open.


I would agree, but at this point the over promising has definitely bit them in the backside.  I know they are trying to do big things on what likely amounts to a shoestring budget.  Let's just hope ma nature gives them a helping hand this point on this winter.


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## NYDB (Dec 8, 2022)

slatham said:


> Re: Red chair, they have two in-house welders, so this shouldn’t be an issue.
> 
> The pond pump is the unfortunate but not too unexpected result of not being able to test the system due to delay in pond completion and approval. Yes no way to predict this specific issue, but testing is done to catch these types of things - which ALWAYS crop up - in October, and they couldn’t do that.
> 
> How frustrating it is to have done all the pond work, and have all that water, and a working pump, but a broken connection. It’s easy for us to be Monday morning quarterbacks and critics, but I feel for Geoff and team who are working their butts off to get the mountain open.


What is your opinion of them publicly calling out pfister ?  As people have said many times in this thread - it isn’t pfisters fault that black lift isnt complete. Pfister didn’t fuck up the engineering.   I’m sure pfister has 10 different projects to complete pre Christmas on regional lifts.


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## AdironRider (Dec 8, 2022)

And you all thought I was wrong when I said they didn’t have a lift, snowmaking or a deck by December. They’ve screwed up all three and struck out.

I wish Magic well but not with the current ownership and management team. They are clearly the problem.

At this point there is a high likelihood they are not opening until the new year, and frankly, at this point, if they even have summit access at all this year is unclear at this point.

This is a place that charges a premium for what they are at almost 100 bucks per day ticket and season passes the better part of a grand. Who is going to pay that moving forward?


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## Keelhauled (Dec 8, 2022)

I happened to have this tab still open.  This morning they said they had divers on standby for the pipe.  They later changed it this afternoon to something to the effect of hopefully we can get divers scheduled after the air compressor didn't clear the plug.  Now they just say they're "systematically dealing with this new obstacle" and they're aiming for a 12/22 opening.  I really wish that they would stop promising things to begin with.


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## x10003q (Dec 8, 2022)

They need to change the name to "No Magic " as in we have no magic to get this stuff done and as in there will be no magic skiing this year. What's next - green chair burns out its motor?


----------



## camberstick (Dec 8, 2022)

The ever optimistic vibes  are needed  for this gem but reality isn't fair. I love the hill and will always support it but  ...
Damn


----------



## thetrailboss (Dec 8, 2022)

I’m supportive of ski areas in general, but damn, this is not a good look….


----------



## skiatomic (Dec 8, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> And you all thought I was wrong when I said they didn’t have a lift, snowmaking or a deck by December. They’ve screwed up all three and struck out.
> 
> I wish Magic well but not with the current ownership and management team. They are clearly the problem.
> 
> ...


What?   Where are you getting the lift tickets and season pass numbers you quote?   Still a value honestly at Magic.  Come on.  

People overreact a bit in here.  

What exactly are they missing by not opening 12/17?   And delayed a week.  

Do we know the blockage…do we know the delay…or just assume worst.  

They have had zero luck this year and I am not too worried about offending a professional lift installer that rarely shows up on schedule…with everything they are dealing with.  Feelings of Pfister are low on priority list.  He has been on job well before first shovel in ground on this, he should feel obligation too.  Give me a break.  

We are all curious and some part of us are rooting for Magic…the naysayers are good comic relief in meantime.


----------



## AdironRider (Dec 9, 2022)

It isn’t luck it is incompetence.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 9, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> It isn’t luck it is incompetence.


When a significant amount of a business plan seemingly is relying on a decent amount of "luck" that's not a great business plan for sure.


----------



## AdironRider (Dec 9, 2022)

skiatomic said:


> What?   Where are you getting the lift tickets and season pass numbers you quote?   Still a value honestly at Magic.  Come on.
> 
> People overreact a bit in here.
> 
> ...



This entire post reads more like a "stand by your man" thing than anything else.

Magic wants 90 bucks a day for day ticket, and 850 for a pass. That is exactly what "almost 100 a day and the better part of a grand for a season pass" means literally. They are by far the most expensive mountain amongst their direct competitors, which newsflash, aren't the majors or even Bromley (which is only 5 bucks more a day and actually operates somewhat efficiently with more amenities and way better infrastructure). Magic isn't even open 7 days a week.

Nevermind this concept of Pfister owes Magic to show up. It is the other way around champ. Magic fucked around with the only contractor willing to work with them for the peanuts they're paying (if they are actually paying which I seriously doubt they are. Or I should say were because there is no way Pfister is going to call them back now after being put on blast).

Magic ownership/management seriously must love the smell of their own farts to be that overconfident.


----------



## skiatomic (Dec 9, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> This entire post reads more like a "stand by your man" thing than anything else.
> 
> Magic wants 90 bucks a day for day ticket, and 850 for a pass. That is exactly what "almost 100 a day and the better part of a grand for a season pass" means literally. They are by far the most expensive mountain amongst their direct competitors, which newsflash, aren't the majors or even Bromley (which is only 5 bucks more a day and actually operates somewhat efficiently with more amenities and way better infrastructure). Magic isn't even open 7 days a week.
> 
> ...


Ok.  Your inflation makes sense now, as it lines up with your inflationary comments.  

 850 in season purchase price for a season pass when everyone has already bought theirs at preseason prices is irrelevant.  

84 online is NOT = 100.   Basic math.  

And they limit lift tickets.   

Calm….calm down.


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## AdironRider (Dec 9, 2022)

Words have meaning and matter and you clearly don't understand what "almost" or "the better part of" mean. 

Magic keeps fucking up because people like you have the ski area equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome and let them get away with everything.


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## hughconway (Dec 9, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Magic keeps fucking up because people like you have the ski area equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome and let them get away with everything.



Unfortunately, I agree with this 100%.  The faithful have been blindly led off a cliff like lemmings for years and attack people for making honest assessments of what is going on at Magic.

I was chuckling to myself last night - but decided it wasn't worthy of a post - when I thought "Why does it even matter that magic can't get water from the pond to pump house with <screenname redacted, pick your favorite poster in this thread> around.  He carries enough water for magic to drain that pond twice daily."

I don't say this for recognition, but outside of misidentifying newpylong a year or two ago, everything I have shared here has been 100% accurate.  And most of it was delivered long before magic decided to actually tell you the truth. Yesterday's alpine update, as noted in this thread, changed at least 3 times yesterday with conflicting stories regarding the plan to unfuck their snowmaking operations.  Just a timely example of the shit sandwich many here are happily and willingly eating year after year when Magicment acts surprised that not getting their projects done in the off season results in inability to provide summit skiing on xmas week.  I don't know how anyone can even pretend to call magic a 'value' pass.  It has an absolutely PREMIUM price tag when you consider cost and # of day open.  $850 for a place that by design only opens 4 days a week, and is frequently unable to provide summit access before new years and usually wrap up operations in mid to late march.  Stratton's strattitude pass is <$650 for 7 day a week skiing from thanksgiving until easter.   There is no comparison.  Even if that strattitude pass were $1050 it would still be a better value due to approx. 2x as many open days in a season.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Dec 9, 2022)

Still a deal on IndyPass. 
I'll go back once they open to the summit - the best NE skiing on that pass without driving an an extra 90 min.


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## Newpylong (Dec 9, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Words have meaning and matter and you clearly don't understand what "almost" or "the better part of" mean.
> 
> Magic keeps fucking up because people like you have the ski area equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome and let them get away with everything.



They keep fucking up because of (insert any number of reasons). It's unrelated to "people letting them get away with everything".

There is a lot of unwarranted anger here towards others who are believed to be drinking the kool aid. Whether or not they are has had no bearing on Magic's inability to complete projects in a timely fashion. The I told you so's are tiresome.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 9, 2022)

fyi you gotta add $5 when purchasing a walk-up day ticket, then add 6% tax.  that's $90 for a walk-up day ticket and $900 for a pass.

https://magicmtn.com/daily-tickets/


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## AdironRider (Dec 9, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> They keep fucking up because of (insert any number of reasons). It's unrelated to "people letting them get away with everything".
> 
> There is a lot of unwarranted anger here towards others who are believed to be drinking the kool aid. Whether or not they are has had no bearing on Magic's inability to complete projects in a timely fashion. The I told you so's are tiresome.



I disagree. I would like to think they would be incentivized to get their damn act together if people weren't so quick to say it isn't their fault when it clearly is.


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## urungus (Dec 9, 2022)

hughconway said:


> Stratton's strattitude pass is <$650 for 7 day a week skiing from thanksgiving until easter.   There is no comparison.  Even if that strattitude pass were $1050 it would still be a better value due to approx. 2x as many open days in a season.



Yeah but then you would have to ski Flatton all year long, no thanks


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 9, 2022)

i would never get a stratton only pass, the boredom would kill me. but i really appreciate it as part of the unlimited ikon. being only 4 hours from home when done skiing on a sunday is really nice. i prefer when i can be 4 hours from home at magic tho. glad i didn't get the magic sunday pass this year. didn't get the value out of it last year and it looks like i wouldn't this year. looking forward to at least 2 days on indy.


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2022)

urungus said:


> Yeah but then you would have to ski Flatton all year long, no thanks


Atleast one could have already skied at Stratton this year... 

If mother nature doesn't cooperate, and the "roto rooter guy" can't get that pipe issue resolved soon, the Magic pass holders may not be looking at their pass getting them lift served turns until potentially Christmas time or beyond


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## NYDB (Dec 9, 2022)

most magic pass holders that I know have an additional pass someplace.  at least for early and late season.
and you just can't go to stratton on the weekends and have an enjoyable time imo.  maybe on blackout weekends? but I think the stratton only pass has blackouts?    midweek it's fine.  

stratton is underrated imo especially for tree skiing but you can't only roll with a stratton only pass.  you may as well quit the sport.


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## NYDB (Dec 9, 2022)

put me on the list of people who don't get the vitriol directed at the current management.  sure they have fucked up a bit, but they are trying their best I think more or less.

.  was there a different management group ready to take over 5 years ago with the new ownership group?  did someone's buddy not get hired and these people are mad at current management? 

Im a bit concerned with all the project missteps and the fact that do work left but the alternatives are what exactly?  

does Geoff have the full faith of the current group of investors / owners?


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## Keelhauled (Dec 9, 2022)

I'm not sure the criticism is so much at the management decisions as the way they've been communicated. You certainly can't say they're pursuing the wrong things in snowmaking upgrades and reducing the single points of failure in the lift system.

I think the openness in communication is appreciated, and I get that they're trying to show their commitment to the mountain and pass holders, and obviously they want to project optimism. The trouble is that they've gotten bit before by promoting things that didn't turn out on the schedule they promised, and then they kept making the same mistakes. I'm absolutely stunned that they knew Black's haul rope was questionable all summer long and kept saying it was going to be open this winter anyway. After all this time it's ridiculous that they'd promise anything without the state's certificate in hand.

I know shit happens and it's unavoidable, but it seems like at every turn they act as though it's not going to happen and then get surprised and have to eat their words when it turns around and does. At this point it's a pattern. Yeah the challenges of running a an operation that depends on a lot of machinery aren't always under their control, but the way they choose to communicate those challenges is, and that's where they're lacking and burning all the credibility they have left.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 10, 2022)

I think they played "F around and find out" with Pfister."

It's a small industry and while there's not a ton of options in the way of competition, they do exist.  Don't tell me Pfister is blowing off a client for no reason.  A check bounced, Magic is being uncooperative- something.

Like I said earlier, there's no instance of a lift taking this long to re-install.  It's not Pfister blowing off magic and trashing their own reputation in the process.  I don't buy that for a second, and it reflects poorly on Magic for them to pass off all the blame.  Come on... that's total BS.


----------



## slatham (Dec 10, 2022)

ss20 said:


> I think they played "F around and find out" with Pfister."
> 
> It's a small industry and while there's not a ton of options in the way of competition, they do exist.  Don't tell me Pfister is blowing off a client for no reason.  A check bounced, Magic is being uncooperative- something.
> 
> Like I said earlier, there's no instance of a lift taking this long to re-install.  It's not Pfister blowing off magic and trashing their own reputation in the process.  I don't buy that for a second, and it reflects poorly on Magic for them to pass off all the blame.  Come on... that's total BS.


I do not know the current situation with Pfister, but I do know that in the past they have been a no show while working at another area getting that area's one/critical lift running so the area can open/re-open.


----------



## bigbob (Dec 10, 2022)

ss20 said:


> I think they played "F around and find out" with Pfister."
> 
> It's a small industry and while there's not a ton of options in the way of competition, they do exist.  Don't tell me Pfister is blowing off a client for no reason.  A check bounced, Magic is being uncooperative- something.
> 
> Like I said earlier, there's no instance of a lift taking this long to re-install.  It's not Pfister blowing off magic and trashing their own reputation in the process.  I don't buy that for a second, and it reflects poorly on Magic for them to pass off all the blame.  Come on... that's total BS.


I would guess that Pfister had other jobs scheduled when at the last minute they where  asked to replace the haul rope. They only have so many bodies and are proably spread to thin as it is. After a while you get tired of returning phone calls when you tell the customer that I can't get there till this date. I am a contractor and have to do this sometimes when a customers gets on your nerves.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 10, 2022)

I was tuning my skis tonight in the garage and the venerable iron just gave out on the second pair. Meter showed failure. How the hell does an iron just fail? Only 50 years old. I vaguely remembered setting a spare iron from a yard sale aside and gadzooks, there it was in the cabin basement. Two comments re Magic. Sometimes availability beats reliability. Sometimes you make your own luck. Getting that haul rope actually changed out instead of just buying it would be an instance of making your own luck. Getting the pond "done" at the last minute is pushing your luck. Turning back to availability (redundancy), if Red breaks down I am going to hit the roof. The gambling is with my money. On the other hand, it only costs a buck to pick up an extra iron at a yard sale.


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## slatham (Dec 11, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> I was tuning my skis tonight in the garage and the venerable iron just gave out on the second pair. Meter showed failure. How the hell does an iron just fail? Only 50 years old. I vaguely remembered setting a spare iron from a yard sale aside and gadzooks, there it was in the cabin basement. Two comments re Magic. Sometimes availability beats reliability. Sometimes you make your own luck. Getting that haul rope actually changed out instead of just buying it would be an instance of making your own luck. Getting the pond "done" at the last minute is pushing your luck. Turning back to availability (redundancy), if Red breaks down I am going to hit the roof. The gambling is with my money. On the other hand, it only costs a buck to pick up an extra iron at a yard sale.



Need to remember that the new haul rope couldn’t be installed until after the sheave work, new tower arm, etc. That was only finished in what, late October? The haul rope could not have been done over summer.


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## Bubba (Dec 11, 2022)

It seems they are always finishing critical projects at the last minute. Why don’t they ever start these projects in April?


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 11, 2022)

slatham said:


> Need to remember that the new haul rope couldn’t be installed until after the sheave work, new tower arm, etc. That was only finished in what, late October? The haul rope could not have been done over summer.


Actually the old rope was an ongoing liability. It didn't suddenly go bad. The could have discovered the sheave problem with a new haul rope. Just another gamble.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 11, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> Actually the old rope was an ongoing liability. It didn't suddenly go bad. The could have discovered the sheave problem with a new haul rope. Just another gamble.


I heard a lift mechanic comment - over beers and in a different context - about damaged haul ropes from misaligned sheaves. I wonder if installing the old haul rope for the initial season turned into "well, if it gets damaged during the major sheave replacement work we'd better hurt the old one, not the replacement."

Anyway, the deck is done per Facebook - late, but before their previous scheduled opening day. That's about on par with a couple capital projects I've been involved with for other resorts.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 11, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I heard a lift mechanic comment - over beers and in a different context - about damaged haul ropes from misaligned sheaves. I wonder if installing the old haul rope for the initial season turned into "well, if it gets damaged during the major sheave replacement work we'd better hurt the old one, not the replacement."
> 
> Anyway, the deck is done per Facebook - late, but before their previous scheduled opening day. That's about on par with a couple capital projects I've been involved with for other resorts.


That makes more sense about the haul rope if it did get damaged. Coming off the sheaves must not have been pretty. I once had the pleasure of reporting a half million dollar cannon "wreck" at the Underhill range to the CEO.


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## bigbob (Dec 11, 2022)

Bubba said:


> It seems they are always finishing critical projects at the last minute. Why don’t they ever start these projects in April?


April is mud season, not a good time to be starting most construction projects. Roads are posted so heavy trucks and equipment can't get to jobsites.


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## Bubba (Dec 11, 2022)

bigbob said:


> April is mud season, not a good time to be starting most construction projects. Roads are posted so heavy trucks and equipment can't get to jobsites.


Magic’s access road is paved. Plenty of construction occurs in Vt during mud season.  Also the roads dry out by May, so what about May? Why do they always wait until September? Ridiculous.


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## slatham (Dec 11, 2022)

Bubba said:


> Magic’s access road is paved. Plenty of construction occurs in Vt during mud season.  Also the roads dry out by May, so what about May? Why do they always wait until September? Ridiculous.


Not sure what you are referring to, but deck and pond started at the beginning of summer, not September.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 11, 2022)

Saw on Facebook its not looking like an easy fix for the snowmaking. 
Chances of natural only Magic this season with no summit access??
Hughconways dream scenario coming to fruition…?


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## NYDB (Dec 11, 2022)

no snowmaking?
old man winter better start getting his shit together. an 120-150" season would be nice.


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## ThatGuy (Dec 11, 2022)

I don’t know shit about snowmaking but if the pond freezes before being fixed its f**ked right?


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 11, 2022)

Where did you see that on Facebook? The Alpine Update implies they have fault isolated to the pond pump. I see nothing on Facebook. The situation is bad enough...


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## drjeff (Dec 11, 2022)

Drove by Magic today on my way to/from the Okemo Mountain School where I was taking a Race Officials exam.

Looks sad with no snow on it. Hopefully between today and later this week, it will atleast get enough of a covering of snow to not look so desolate


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 11, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> Where did you see that on Facebook? The Alpine Update implies they have fault isolated to the pond pump. I see nothing on Facebook. The situation is bad enough...


I did see some gloomy stuff from Geoff on Friends of Magic Facebook.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 12, 2022)

Even if the transfer ppump is down for the season, so long as they can access the pipeline somewhere near the pond they can splice a rental high head pump or two in, throw a suction line into the pond, and get running again. That takes effort and money but isn't particularly challenging technically, and it's far less financially painful to rent a pump and fuel it for a few months than to potentially miss a season.


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## Newpylong (Dec 12, 2022)

Sounds like that's where they are currently at, it's about all you can do with the obstacles against them this time of year.


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## zyk (Dec 12, 2022)

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, unless Magic pulls a rabbit out of their hat...
No summit lift service
No snow making
And I can enjoy this for $850?
Seems like some sleight of hand...

My ski3 pass was cheaper and they're open every day.


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## slatham (Dec 12, 2022)

zyk said:


> So, please correct me if I'm wrong, unless Magic pulls a rabbit out of their hat...
> No summit lift service
> No snow making
> And I can enjoy this for $850?
> ...


No, there are backup plans for snowmaking as IceEdolon pointed out. 

And there is no threat to Red running for summit access. Some work, yes, but straightforward and well under way (they were on chair 98 the other day, but I cannot confirm they started on #1).


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## zyk (Dec 12, 2022)

slatham said:


> No, there are backup plans for snowmaking as IceEdolon pointed out.
> 
> And there is no threat to Red running for summit access. Some work, yes, but straightforward and well under way (they were on chair 98 the other day, but I cannot confirm they started on #1).


Fair enough.  I'd like to get back there for some days.


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## slatham (Dec 13, 2022)

Update from Magic late yesterday:

"The problem with the pond system has been narrowed through a series of tests to most likely the underwater pump stack losing water though some type of pipe wall damage or gasket or seal failure. This makes it very difficult in the short term to fix. We have confirmed a work-around concept with the experts so we are obtaining another pump that pushes our desired 1500 gpm, with heavy duty hose to place in the pond and connect it by a new pipe arm into the existing pipe on the uphill side of the pond pumphouse.  This will bypass the pumphouse at pond altogether with enough water volume at pressure to then send up the Mountain to the base area pumps. The rental pump and hoses will get here Tuesday and then a good amount of welding will take place. If all works according to plan, we hope to be making snow by end of this week."

They (everyone) are also hoping for a dump Friday! Could be enough to open but still too early to call thats for sure.......


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 13, 2022)

At least the pump rental company called them back...


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## kancamagus (Dec 13, 2022)

Bubba said:


> It seems they are always finishing critical projects at the last minute. Why don’t they ever start these projects in April?


I've worked before at a (non ski resort) company that always tried to delay until the last possible minute projects, to reduce the time between when they spent money on a project ramp up, and when they get money back from sales. In variably, they would delay until the schedule only works out if every traffic light you hit is green. That pretty much never happens, so hitting a single red light would mean project delays and upset customers. It then frequently took a ton of emergency spending to try to expedite and catch projects back up - money that wasn't directly reflected on the P&L for a project, but cost the company just the same. So on paper, projects looked efficient, but they were quite wasteful.

Things just happen in life, and you need schedule and cash buffers to account for that. Frequently, it's expensive to be poor. It can be much cheaper overall if you don't skimp the first time and follow a "buy once, cry once" mindset, spend money sooner to give more time for contingencies, etc. Then again, that's a lot easier if you have the cash flow to accomplish that...

Yet more arm chair quarterbacking with no visibility on internals, but I would have to imagine that they should seriously look at just biting the bullet for the eventual Red Chair replacement and just hire Skytrac for a new fixed grip lift, even if Skytrac does one of their phased replacements.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 13, 2022)

Red's still got some parts availability and it's had some major wear items recently changed out - in ten+ years, maybe they start looking at either serious mechanical work again (I mean beyond routine wear items, like new tower foundations or a control system replacement) and call Skytrack, but if I was calling the shots I'd really want to spend a few years of capex on snowmaking if at all possible.

Rental pond pump is on site per Instagram, with the potential for snowmaking testing on Wednesday.


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## Newpylong (Dec 13, 2022)

kancamagus said:


> I've worked before at a (non ski resort) company that always tried to delay until the last possible minute projects, to reduce the time between when they spent money on a project ramp up, and when they get money back from sales. In variably, they would delay until the schedule only works out if every traffic light you hit is green. That pretty much never happens, so hitting a single red light would mean project delays and upset customers. It then frequently took a ton of emergency spending to try to expedite and catch projects back up - money that wasn't directly reflected on the P&L for a project, but cost the company just the same. So on paper, projects looked efficient, but they were quite wasteful.
> 
> Things just happen in life, and you need schedule and cash buffers to account for that. Frequently, it's expensive to be poor. It can be much cheaper overall if you don't skimp the first time and follow a "buy once, cry once" mindset, spend money sooner to give more time for contingencies, etc. Then again, that's a lot easier if you have the cash flow to accomplish that...
> 
> Yet more arm chair quarterbacking with no visibility on internals, but I would have to imagine that they should seriously look at just biting the bullet for the eventual Red Chair replacement and just hire Skytrac for a new fixed grip lift, even if Skytrac does one of their phased replacements.



With the Quad finishing up eventually Red is likely last on the list.


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## Newpylong (Dec 13, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Red's still got some parts availability and it's had some major wear items recently changed out - in ten+ years, maybe they start looking at either serious mechanical work again (I mean beyond routine wear items, like new tower foundations or a control system replacement) and call Skytrack, but if I was calling the shots I'd really want to spend a few years of capex on snowmaking if at all possible.
> 
> Rental pond pump is on site per Instagram, with the potential for snowmaking testing on Wednesday.



Rock paper scissors, loser has to keep that pump fueled all night lol.


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## zoomzoom (Dec 13, 2022)

"Red's still got some parts availability"

no one's stocking anything anymore.  especially rare pieces like the gearbox output shaft ajax couplings { two types }, bullwheel backstop one-way clutch, input shaft rollback device, Cat drive seal, spare grips and spring packs, restraint bars, drive motherboard.  am wishing the folks there a good winter for sure.    






						US3911765A - Ski lift bullwheel          - Google Patents
					

Ski lift cable bullwheel characterized by a hub containing a planetary gear speed reducer. A brake drum for arresting motion of the bullwheel is affixed to the hub. In the illustrated and preferred arrangement of parts, the planetary gearing is disposed in the upper portion of the hub and the...



					patents.google.com


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## ne_skier (Dec 14, 2022)

No chance they replace Red anytime soon without anything major coming up to prompt them to do so. The major upgrades it has gotten over the past years is an indication that they plan to keep it around for a while. Parts availability will become a problem in the future, as it is with all old lifts someday, but they've got bigger priorities on their plate over the next 5 years than replacing a lift that as of right now does not need replacing. Maybe after they get the quad done, get the rope tow in the beginner area running so you can actually ski it, and expand snowmaking to a few more trails (cough cough Kinderspiel), they can evaluate the situation, but I'd be surprised if they find anything that warrants an immediate replacement right on the heels of another major costly summit lift project.


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## skithetrees (Dec 14, 2022)

I feel strongly that the next lift project needs to be an actual beginner chair in the beginner area. A rope tow just doesn’t cut it for beginners. But this is admittedly not an urgent need. With the quad and red both turning, frankly, there will be as many people as I care to see on the trails at one time. Red is kind of iconic at this point and I view it similar to the single chair. only way I would put in a new lift would be to put a dedicated lift on the west side (if they could get access to the power company land and cut trails over there). That would be a pipe dream though.


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## NYDB (Dec 14, 2022)

they are teasing a sunday opening if the storm hits big.  I wonder if they'll let us hike / skin for turns sat.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 14, 2022)

NYDB said:


> they are teasing a sunday opening if the storm hits big.  I wonder if they'll let us hike / skin for turns sat.


You should have stayed here. We're up to 45" since Sunday at Alta.


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## NYDB (Dec 14, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> You should have stayed here. We're up to 45" since Sunday at Alta.


I've been watching.  I was pretty much crippled after 3 hard days though.  I was pricing out condos on the  flight home.


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## drjeff (Dec 14, 2022)

NYDB said:


> they are teasing a sunday opening if the storm hits big.  I wonder if they'll let us hike / skin for turns sat.



I hope it pans out for them.  If I recall though they they get "burned" about this time last year with a tease like that where the warm air had more of an influence over the storm that the cold air by a few miles.... Okemo got something like 3+ feet and Magic got only a few inches of semi frozen goop...  Given what has been a string of "over promise, under deliver" lately, I hope this won't be the case again


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## slatham (Dec 14, 2022)

drjeff said:


> I hope it pans out for them.  If I recall though they they get "burned" about this time last year with a tease like that where the warm air had more of an influence over the storm that the cold air by a few miles.... Okemo got something like 3+ feet and Magic got only a few inches of semi frozen goop...  Given what has been a string of "over promise, under deliver" lately, I hope this won't be the case again


This isn’t Magic making promises, it’s the various weather services making them. What Magic is saying is that IF the forecast pans out, they will open. This is simple communication of their plans SHOULD this storm work as we believe it will. Imagine if they were silent, and then it snowed 15” and they opened? Or worse yet, if it snowed 15” and the DIDN’T open?

Also, if the plays as expected it will probably be a Saturday opening….

But to answer the earlier question, if they decide to open Sunday then I doubt they allow skinning/hiking to ski on Saturday.


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## NYDB (Dec 14, 2022)

green only?  or have they completed the welding on red


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 14, 2022)

Random thought. How much inevitable widening and/or change would occur to Redline from putting in a new lift?  I think it's safe to assume they'd never do majorly "invasive" lift project (eg a detach) but I'd still be worried the current trail would get damaged a bit.


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## drjeff (Dec 14, 2022)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Random thought. How much inevitable widening and/or change would occur to Redline from putting in a new lift?  I think it's safe to assume they'd never do majorly "invasive" lift project (eg a detach) but I'd still be worried the current trail would get damaged a bit.


Probably not as much as you think. 

For example, when Mount Snow converted the Heavy Metal double to a triple this past Summer, not sure they even removed 1 tree in doing so, and the majority of that lift line corridor sure seems to be similar to the width of the Red's liftline corridor in its more narrow places.

Might depend more on what they'd replace the Red with (another double? A triple?), what the codes on the book for that type of installation is, and what heavy equipment access would require to facilitate its build


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## ne_skier (Dec 14, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Probably not as much as you think.
> 
> For example, when Mount Snow converted the Heavy Metal double to a triple this past Summer, not sure they even removed 1 tree in doing so, and the majority of that lift line corridor sure seems to be similar to the width of the Red's liftline corridor in its more narrow places.
> 
> Might depend more on what they'd replace the Red with (another double? A triple?), what the codes on the book for that type of installation is, and what heavy equipment access would require to facilitate its build


Heavy Metal was only given new chairs when it was converted IIRC. Yan lifts of that time period were built to the next biggest line gauge (doubles supported triple chairs, triples supported quad chairs, this is how Bear Mountain at Killington was converted) so all one had to do to upgrade capacity was swap the carriers. 

Redline is a steep, narrow trail that cannot be accessed by a sizeable land vehicle in many places. This is one of the reasons why Red was spared from the post-closure liquidation of the 1990s - they wouldn't get much back for the lift over the cost to remove it. For them to reasonably install a new lift, no matter its capacity, it would be expected for the trail to have to be widened to some degree and perhaps for some of its more "difficult" elements to be smoothed. Additionally, I've heard that for purposes of standardization, many companies are installing triples/doubles at a quad line gauge, although I could be wrong. The best example of what is being talked about with Redline that I can think of would probably be what happened to the trail underneath the High Peaks lift at Gore when the quad went in.


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## doublediamond (Dec 14, 2022)

Apples and oranges.

Heavy Metal was not a significant upgrade. All that was done was remove the double chairs and add on triple chairs.

If Red is upgraded it’s almost a 100% certainty new towers would be installed. By the time we’re talking about — decade or more — the foundations will be 61+ years old. The old crumbling foundations are what doomed the double at Saddleback which led to the mountain’s closure. Heck look over at the state of the double at Big Squaw. The foundations are spalling faster than you can say ”no bueno”.

Traditionally in tough landscapes choppers are used to remove towers, pour concrete, and bring in the new towers and tower heads.  But Magic doesn’t have the money to do that. There may be a lot of access roads cut to towers like done at Cranmore when the triple was put in. Or there could be complete obliteration of the trail a la Gore and its new quad.


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## urungus (Dec 14, 2022)

I would be bummed if Red ever gets replaced.  Its bad enough that it will be relegated to backup/overflow status if Black ever gets finished.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 14, 2022)

Yeap... that's what I'd fear. I love Redline as is, would absolutely hate to see it smoothed or widened. Honestly if I had to choose I think I'd rather lose Red chair than Redline, assuming a functional black chair obviously. Red is a great ride FS, but Redline when it's well covered is

That all said, yeah I'm not too worried about ANY lift construction actually happening on redline anytime soon


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 14, 2022)

Huh, is Castlerock a decent comparison? I'm thinking no but figured I'd ask.


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## machski (Dec 15, 2022)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Huh, is Castlerock a decent comparison? I'm thinking no but figured I'd ask.


I would say yes as that was a completely new install.  The new Casterock Double had to confirm to all ANSI and construction codes when it replaced the original double.  Tree clearance to the line is a major component to any new install, be it a used or new lift.


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## doublediamond (Dec 15, 2022)

At what point do those come into preview? For example if the SkyTrac phased install is done. When is a lift a new lift?


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## zoomzoom (Dec 15, 2022)

'Yan lifts of that time period were built to the next biggest line gauge (doubles supported triple chairs, triples supported quad chairs"

i know of no L/E lift that was built with a line gauge as you describe.  

"this is how Bear Mountain at Killington was converted so all one had to do to upgrade capacity was swap the carriers."

not true.  when the contract was signed for bear, a fixed quad was desired but 4 person carriers hadn't been designed at the time.  so the drive, line, and return station footings were sized for a quad but not the line gauge.  the line gauge was extended as needed one summer when the carriers were available, and additional weight was added to the counterweight.  original braking and APU were sufficient.  take a look some day when you're in the bear quad maze, you'll see concrete disc on top of the original ctw. the bear triples went to mt snow, iirc.


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## ne_skier (Dec 15, 2022)

Perhaps I worded it wrong. As far as I'm aware, a number of resorts did what you described. My point just relates to Heavy Metal and how it isn't a great comparison due to the relative simplicity compared to installing a completely new lift, not to mention the fact that I'm sure it's liftline is far more mellow than Redline. 

As for Bear's triple carriers, those actually came right here to Magic, when the Blue double was upgraded to the Black triple in '85. I believe all of Mount Snow's Yan components were installed there new; ASC had a pretty good relationship with those guys.


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2022)

Most importantly, are they able to get water to the main pumphouse now with that trash pump?


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## slatham (Dec 15, 2022)

Back up plan pump working. Targeting a Sunday opening if adequate accumulation, which is forecasted but let’s see what verifies. No skinning or hiking prior. Running Red is the plan. Hope this storm delivers!


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## NYDB (Dec 15, 2022)

lame about no uphill until Xmas.  Plenty of routes won't even be near snowmaking.


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## skithetrees (Dec 15, 2022)

NYDB said:


> lame about no uphill until Xmas.  Plenty of routes won't even be near snowmaking.



This may not be a popular view here, but I think it’s kind of crazy that mountains permit uphill travel at all. It’s basically a community service that they make no money on. I certainly don’t fault them for banning it before opening day and right after a big storm. I never understood the point of touring at a resort (at least in the east).


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## NYDB (Dec 15, 2022)

skithetrees said:


> This may not be a popular view here, but I think it’s kind of crazy that mountains permit uphill travel at all. It’s basically a community service that they make no money on. I certainly don’t fault them for banning it before opening day and right after a big storm. I never understood the point of touring at a resort (at least in the east).


well I'm a passholder so they already have my money.  not sure what other money they want from me.ive volunteered my time several work days as well over the years.  

and southern VT has zero base heading into this storm.  not sure where else you could go to uphill besides trails that are well kept.  I know there are 2 defunct ski areas near by that if there is enough snow I will head there on Sat or hit stratton on the kidderbrook side.  just looking for some exercise and practice.  

if they want no uphilling that's fine with me.  just don't use snowmaking as an excuse.

also, I'm sure there will be people at magic on Friday and Saturday uphilling no doubt.  some will get a pass since they are friends with management.


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## urungus (Dec 15, 2022)

slatham said:


> Back up plan pump working. Targeting a Sunday opening if adequate accumulation, which is forecasted but let’s see what verifies. No skinning or hiking prior. Running Red is the plan. Hope this storm delivers!


So after all the histrionics, we have a working pump and are looking at opening only 3 days late with summit access and a completed new deck ?


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2022)

NYDB said:


> well I'm a passholder so they already have my money.  not sure what other money they want from me.ive volunteered my time several work days as well over the years.
> 
> and southern VT has zero base heading into this storm.  not sure where else you could go to uphill besides trails that are well kept.  I know there are 2 defunct ski areas near by that if there is enough snow I will head there on Sat or hit stratton on the kidderbrook side.  just looking for some exercise and practice.
> 
> ...



Snowmaking is not an excuse. I've seen more skinners come down and run over my hoses and 480V cables than I care to mention. Then there's nearly getting hit in the middle of the night numerous times when they come down with only a headlight on on pitch black trails.

They probably have hoses and equipment out that's gonna be below the snow from this storm. It's a liability.


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## slatham (Dec 15, 2022)

urungus said:


> So after all the histrionics, we have a working pump and are looking at opening only 3 days late with summit access and a completed new deck ?


Hopefully that is exactly right!


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## ne_skier (Dec 15, 2022)

urungus said:


> So after all the histrionics, we have a working pump and are looking at opening only 3 days late with summit access and a completed new deck ?


Sounds about right - even if this snow isn't enough to open the typically ungroomed runs, it'll give the mountain a great head start for groomed terrain (We weren't even at the summit until after Christmas last year, and that was on 1 trail) and since the snow is of the dense and wet variety, it should serve as a great base for future snowfall. Not much else you can ask for when you find yourself skiing Magic double-blacks before the new year if I do say so myself. There does appear to be more precipitation coming before Christmas, hopefully it's cold and snowy, unlike most Christmas weather we've gotten lately...


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## ne_skier (Dec 16, 2022)

12” down at noon and Magic says it’ll keep going into the night (OpenSnow agrees), still no Saturday opening but Sunday won’t be one to miss…hitting Bromley Saturday


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## WoodCore (Dec 16, 2022)

Currently nuking snow at magic. 






Already 16" when they cleaned the gauge around 4pm plus this....


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## IceEidolon (Dec 17, 2022)

Partial power outage at Magic per FB. Kick in the teeth if the utility can't fix that by Sunday.


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## NYDB (Dec 17, 2022)

urungus said:


> So after all the histrionics, we have a working pump and are looking at opening only 3 days late with summit access and a completed new deck ?


alternatively- they were handed a gift snow storn and were completely bailed out of all the snowmaking pond errors with 20+ inches of snow. Yet they still  couldn't  manage to open on a Saturday 2 days after they were schedule to open with snow coverage not being an issue?


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## Newpylong (Dec 17, 2022)

Did they have a giant hamster wheel on top of the bull wheel we don't know about? How were they going to open today even if they wanted without power?

The remainder of your comment shows no regard for the operational difficulties of going from "we're dead in the water" to "we're going to give it a shot if we get enough snow" for a small operation.

This of all things is not worthy of docking them points on. The snow isnt going anywhere. Sunday is fine, if there's power.


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## bigbob (Dec 17, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Did they have a giant hamster wheel on top of the bull wheel we don't know about? How were they going to open today even if they wanted without power?
> 
> The remainder of your comment shows no regard for the operational difficulties of going from "we're dead in the water" to "we're going to give it a shot if we get enough snow" for a small operation.
> 
> This of all things is not worthy of docking them points on. The snow isnt going anywhere. Sunday is fine, if there's power.


His monicur is New York Dirt Bag so what do you expect? Clueless entitled a hole!


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2022)

There are so many AZ regulars that have ZERO concept of mtn ops realities


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## ne_skier (Dec 18, 2022)

Power back on as per skimagicvt Instagram, Sunday is ON!


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## IceEidolon (Dec 18, 2022)

Looked like a good crowd based on Facebook pics. It's nice when it all comes together.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 18, 2022)

It was wonderful today. The snow depth is not to be believed. Everything was open. I saw tracks on Pitch Black. Green was ski on and Green Line looked great if you wanted a mini-adventure. Or the woods to skiers right from there. It looked like they mobilized many patrollers to take a quick run on everything to open it. The critical guy just needs to bag it.


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## NYDB (Dec 18, 2022)

drjeff said:


> There are so many AZ regulars that have ZERO concept of mtn ops realities


except I actually worked at K for a bunch of years.
  it's the difference between a professional organization and an amateurish organization.  

they didn't know about the power issues before we they delayed opening to Sunday..  nice try on that one @Newpylong. 

even magic insider @slatham said they would be open Saturday  In a comment last week.  

whatever.  truly happy they had a good opening.  see y'all next week.(unless there is some magic loving purity test I have to take before I pick up the passes)


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## Newpylong (Dec 18, 2022)

NYDB said:


> except I actually worked at K for a bunch of years.
> it's the difference between a professional organization and an amateurish organization.
> 
> they didn't know about the power issues before we they delayed opening to Sunday..  nice try on that one @Newpylong.
> ...



I didn't need to try because it was quite obvious. Saturday was the scheduled opening prior to the pond pump flying up it's own ass. That kinda thing puts a wrench in planning.


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## slatham (Dec 18, 2022)

NYDB said:


> except I actually worked at K for a bunch of years.
> it's the difference between a professional organization and an amateurish organization.
> 
> they didn't know about the power issues before we they delayed opening to Sunday..  nice try on that one @Newpylong.
> ...


If I am an “insider” it’s only from a weather perspective, and from that purview they could have opened Saturday. But if you worked at K you will know there is sooo much more to do to open. I have since gained some insight into what was needed, and to be honest, with the power outage on Saturday, I am very surprised they could actually open today. They did so only due to late night/ early morning selfless effort from management and staff alike. That, my friend, is professional, and far from amateur. 

 Meanwhile, some of the well-funded “professional” areas are having their owns troubles too. Its a tough business. Again, if you worked at the Beast you should know that.


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## WoodCore (Dec 18, 2022)

Hate to bring this up and I could be entirely wrong but I would not count on the "workaround@the pond" lasting more than a few hours. Lots of leaks in that flexible connecting hose.....


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## ss20 (Dec 18, 2022)

NYDB said:


> except I actually worked at K for a bunch of years.
> it's the difference between a professional organization and an amateurish organization.
> 
> they didn't know about the power issues before we they delayed opening to Sunday..  nice try on that one @Newpylong.
> ...



lol Killington couldn't make snow today as well because GMP asked them not to due to all the issues with the grid.  

No fault on Magic.  Shit happens and it's how you deal with it that determines how good of an operation you are.


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## Newpylong (Dec 19, 2022)

WoodCore said:


> Hate to bring this up and I could be entirely wrong but I would not count on the "workaround@the pond" lasting more than a few hours. Lots of leaks in that flexible connecting hose.....





WoodCore said:


> Hate to bring this up and I could be entirely wrong but I would not count on the "workaround@the pond" lasting more than a few hours. Lots of leaks in that flexible connecting hose.....



That picture looks to be from last week. They've likely replaced it with mining hose.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 19, 2022)

Seriously - call the rental agency, tell them their hose leaks and send a driver for a replacement.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 21, 2022)

Snow report says they are getting enough pressure up the pipes to blow a couple out! Also it is likely they will close Friday due to ...


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## Newpylong (Dec 21, 2022)

Yes but those would be downstream of the main pumps (high pressure) not the pond Trash Pump (low pressure, high volume).


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## IceEidolon (Dec 22, 2022)

Back online per Instagram with at least one fan.


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## slatham (Dec 22, 2022)

At 9am they had 9 air/water guns running, mostly ratnicks. It was obvious other guns had run overnight, including a fan right at the lift loading area. They plan to close until Monday. Hopefully this storm doesn't completely waste the beautiful natural base they have right now. Fingers crossed for enough front side snow to absorb most of rain and keep the base, however rock solid it will become (better than actual rocks).....


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## Newpylong (Dec 22, 2022)

Well unfortunately they had an E shutdown later on because the Trash pump discharge hose blew up.


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## WoodCore (Dec 22, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Well unfortunately they had an E shutdown later on because the Trash pump discharge hose blew up.


Sounds like they need to upgrade the miners hose...


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2022)

Over/under that at somepoint during snowmaking ops this season, someone forgets to keep the rental pump fuel tank filled, and it runs out of fuel, the line can't be drained quick enough, and it becomes hundreds of feet of ice? Given the "luck" Magic has had (often brings upon itself) I'd have to unfortunately strongly consider betting the over...


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## Keelhauled (Dec 22, 2022)

If it's cold enough for a six or eight inch hose to freeze solid in the time it takes to re-prime the engine they're not gonna be making snow anyway on account of threat to life and limb.  Besides, you just have to disengage the clutch between the engine and pump and it will drain itself via gravity.


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2022)

Keelhauled said:


> If it's cold enough for a six or eight inch hose to freeze solid in the time it takes to re-prime the engine they're not gonna be making snow anyway on account of threat to life and limb.  Besides, you just have to disengage the clutch between the engine and pump and it will drain itself via gravity.


Agree under circumstances... but this is Magic we're discussing... and often they tend to (and not always successfully) walk to the beat of their own drummer!)


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 23, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Yes but those would be downstream of the main pumps (high pressure) not the pond Trash Pump (low pressure, high volume).


I didn't say anything about various pumps. Obviously you must get water to the HP pumps to blow out pipes.


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Over/under that at somepoint during snowmaking ops this season, someone forgets to keep the rental pump fuel tank filled, and it runs out of fuel, the line can't be drained quick enough, and it becomes hundreds of feet of ice? Given the "luck" Magic has had (often brings upon itself) I'd have to unfortunately strongly consider betting the over...


AFAIK the feed line is frost free except for the last section they excavated to stab that Trash pump into. So they probably have a good amount of time to open the drain they added before it turns into a popsicle.


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2022)

Keelhauled said:


> If it's cold enough for a six or eight inch hose to freeze solid in the time it takes to re-prime the engine they're not gonna be making snow anyway on account of threat to life and limb.  Besides, you just have to disengage the clutch between the engine and pump and it will drain itself via gravity.


There is a check valve on it but rotating a pump backwards is not the best idea even just to drain. Depending on the impeller/shaft setup they can unthread themselves, f*ck the seals up, damage the casing or thrust bearings, etc and so on. If someone can get to it to operate the clutch they can open the drain right there.


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## Keelhauled (Dec 23, 2022)

Maybe it's different then, I just assumed it's pretty much the same as a Cornell pump like we use on a manure dragline. We always let the hose drain back into the pit through the pump when we shut it down.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 23, 2022)

There's a drain on that feed line for the electric pump that's still useable, too. I believe SOP is to blow down any pipeline with air as part of the shutdown.


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2022)

No, it is not usable because it's inside the pumphouse which is no longer connected.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 23, 2022)

There's a 4" drain at the aboveground spur, but the spur just ties into the new pond feed line. The piping back to the pond pump is completely intact, once that pump is repaired they can slap a blanking plug on the 6" flange aboveground and run electrically, no welder required.


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## Newpylong (Dec 23, 2022)

Oh nice, I was told they were just going to dig down and tie in severing the pipe back to the pit. The way you described certainly makes more sense so they can switch back easily. Once they blank that flange they'll have to bleed some volume out the aboveground drain when they go back to electric otherwise that spur will freeze.

Considering the pump worked fine last year and the pond was just dredged I would bet money Stage 0 is full of sticks and other sh*t assuming there's no basket on it. As soon as the ground re-freezes I'd get a tracked crane or long boom hoe in there to pull that pump ASAP. It could be that simple, or maybe not lol.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Dec 23, 2022)

Magic says they will reopen Mon with 50 trails. How well do folks think their conditions will be able to bounce back? Better to head somewhere with more grooming expertise on Monday?


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## ne_skier (Dec 23, 2022)

Website currently says 20 for 12/26. Will definitely be a groomer day, if anything ungroomed is somehow open I'll let you guys test it out first lol. In terms of Magic, probably the usual early-season menu items (summit included).


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## IceEidolon (Dec 23, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Oh nice, I was told they were just going to dig down and tie in severing the pipe back to the pit. The way you described certainly makes more sense so they can switch back easily. Once they blank that flange they'll have to bleed some volume out the aboveground drain when they go back to electric otherwise that spur will freeze.
> 
> Considering the pump worked fine last year and the pond was just dredged I would bet money Stage 0 is full of sticks and other sh*t assuming there's no basket on it. As soon as the ground re-freezes I'd get a tracked crane or long boom hoe in there to pull that pump ASAP. It could be that simple, or maybe not lol.


Yep, but with 1500 GPM rated capacity on that transfer pump but only 1000 ish going uphill there's plenty of capacity for that, the air cooler, etc. That all assumes the pump fix is simple, though.


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## skiatomic (Dec 23, 2022)

drjeff said:


> There are so many AZ regulars that have ZERO concept of mtn ops realities


This comment….who drives by the magic on way back from a clinic at Okemo and makes judgment.   Kinda humorous.


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## Judder (Dec 23, 2022)

Been riding Magic since the 2000’s and love the terrain. I’ve had a pass and/or throwback card the past 10 years. This year I switched over to a bromley pass. I just can’t deal with the poor infrastructure of Magic. Between the janky red chair, piss poor snowmaking, and the black chair taking 3+ years, I’ve moved on. Powder days are now a complete shitshow with massive lines on the red chair that rival Ikon/Epic. Being closed mon-weds is also a big factor. I’ll be back when they up their snowmaking game and get the black chair working.


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## Judder (Dec 23, 2022)

Was up a bromley a couple days this week and they were blowing all over the main face and east side. Looking over to Magic, not a snowmaking cloud to be seen.


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## drjeff (Dec 24, 2022)

skiatomic said:


> This comment….who drives by the magic on way back from a clinic at Okemo and makes judgment.   Kinda humorous.


No offense, and not to toot my own horn, but guessing I have a greater grasp of mtn ops knowledge than 90% of the regular AZ crew... been incredibly fortunate to have numerous folks in the industry to not only be able to legitimately call friends, but also who have taken the time over the years to answer numerous ops questions I have asked, and do so in a  legit way that factors in the realities of snowmaking as well as lessons and regular ops


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## skiatomic (Dec 24, 2022)

drjeff said:


> No offense, and not to toot my own horn, but guessing I have a greater grasp of mtn ops knowledge than 90% of the regular AZ crew... been incredibly fortunate to have numerous folks in the industry to not only be able to legitimately call friends, but also who have taken the time over the years to answer numerous ops questions I have asked, and do so in a  legit way that factors in the realities of snowmaking as well as lessons and regular ops


Ok.  I respect that.  Happy holidays!

This thread has just become such a parking spot for those with an ax to grind or Monday morning QB an area that people enjoy and understand the work by the staff is well intended.  Is it perfect. Nope.  Not the point.  

Have a great holiday to those lucky enough to have family to share it with and everyone just take a deep breath and realize what this forum is and can be.   Peace.


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## Bubba (Dec 24, 2022)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Magic says they will reopen Mon with 50 trails. How well do folks think their conditions will be able to bounce back? Better to head somewhere with more grooming expertise on Monday?


Magic has one of the best groomers in the business working for them.


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2022)

Judder said:


> Was up a bromley a couple days this week and they were blowing all over the main face and east side. Looking over to Magic, not a snowmaking cloud to be seen.



Scroll back through here and you'll see why there has been little to no snowmaking.


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## skiur (Dec 24, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Scroll back through here and you'll see why there has been little to no snowmaking.


Always something at magic, it's getting really old.


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2022)

I'm sure they enjoy it happening to them too.


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## ss20 (Dec 24, 2022)

drjeff said:


> No offense, and not to toot my own horn, but guessing I have a greater grasp of mtn ops knowledge than 90% of the regular AZ crew... been incredibly fortunate to have numerous folks in the industry to not only be able to legitimately call friends, but also who have taken the time over the years to answer numerous ops questions I have asked, and do so in a  legit way that factors in the realities of snowmaking as well as lessons and regular ops



9 years in the industry now for me and Dr Jeff still probably knows more about snowmaking, lifts, and grooming than I do.


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## slatham (Dec 24, 2022)

skiur said:


> Always something at magic, it's getting really old.



Agree with the overall sentiment, but in the case of snowmaking this year it was “no good deed goes unpunished”. They spent a fortune to dramatically and permanently increase their water resources for snowmaking, and the work delayed testing which found issues that are fairly typical. Just typically you find them in October with plenty of time to fix pre-snowmaking weather. Hopefully all goes well these next 4 days or so of optimal snowmaking weather.

PS Dr Jeff is one of the most knowledgeable non-ski industry resources there is……


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## skiur (Dec 24, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> I'm sure they enjoy it happening to them too.


Of course, it's never their fault, it's always something out of their control.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 25, 2022)

They've recently made some hires that will help bend that bad luck back in their favor, too. Coming into an operation right during fire up doesn't give their new Ops manager any ability to, say, change how summer maintenance is done - yet.


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## hughconway (Dec 26, 2022)

Based on what I am hearing, they are going to need A LOT more than just luck.

I'm told that they managed to get the rental pump thawed out and pumping again, but that is just the beginning of the troubles.  The rental pump is getting water to the pit in the main pumphouse, but for some (still unknown, according to my source) reason the VFD's in the main pumphouse aren't able to generate enough pressure to move water uphill.  As a result, they can only blow snow in the base area.  Last weeks warm weather & cold snap left the snow in terrible shape, and temps are supposed to be >32 from Thursday - Sunday of this week.  Unless a miracle occurs, this will likely shut down the upper mountain and possibly the lower mountain as well.

The most frightening part of this is what happens when they shut down the pumps.  Apparently lots of rock and soil has made its way into the new pipe between the pond (disgruntled former employee???) and main pumphouse.  When the pumps get shut down and the system starts to drain you can actually HEAR the rocks bouncing around inside the pipe.  At this point there is no reason to worry about the black quad.  It will NOT carry paying customers this season, but the far greater concern is if Magic will actually be able to blow snow outside of the base area.  If they can't get that together, and mother nature pulls her usual tricks they are going to have a very tough time operating at all.

One has to wonder if the VFD pumps they purchased a few years ago have been damaged by to the rocks and other contaminants that have made their way into the system?

I'm usually pretty pessimistic, but this is far worse than anything I could have imagined.  While the cheerleaders will surely chime in and say "But everyone there is working SOOO hard - these are just growing pains" it is starting to look a lot more like death throes to me.


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## Newpylong (Dec 27, 2022)

FYI, "VFDs" are just the drives that control voltage frequency to the motors which drive the pumps. They installed them on all of the pumps a few years back, the pumps are not new.

Does the main pumphouse have a wet pit or are they can pumps? That would make a big difference in determining where the sediment's origin is.


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## JoeB-Z (Dec 27, 2022)

With the weather and crippled snowmaking it is sad. I was going to ski a few runs at Magic today on my way to my VT place. Just could not muster any enthusiasm for what's on offer. If they fix more snowmaking then the temps look bad for many days. I'll try Th through the weekend but it will be fair at best. Imagine if the big storm had not hit.


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## slatham (Dec 27, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> FYI, "VFDs" are just the drives that control voltage frequency to the motors which drive the pumps. They installed them on all of the pumps a few years back, the pumps are not new.
> 
> Does the main pumphouse have a wet pit or are they can pumps? That would make a big difference in determining where the sediment's origin is.


Wet pit.

They are troubleshooting the 400 line, and started a few guns on the 400 line on upper Wand around noon today. Note they made snow at the Summit on Thursday so whatever the issue it’s new.

16 or so guns going on 300 line covering lower mountain.


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## NYDB (Dec 27, 2022)

JoeB-Z said:


> With the weather and crippled snowmaking it is sad. I was going to ski a few runs at Magic today on my way to my VT place. Just could not muster any enthusiasm for what's on offer. If they fix more snowmaking then the temps look bad for many days. I'll try Th through the weekend but it will be fair at best. Imagine if the big storm had not hit.


  white out /uts/ vertigo was better than expected today and rotd.  
 worth the trip to pick up the passes and take 8 or so runs.  

blowing on show off, Wand and around the base area.  

good coverage really and better than last xmas week.

when it warms up later this week it should be fun


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 27, 2022)

slatham said:


> Wet pit.
> 
> They are troubleshooting the 400 line, and started a few guns on the 400 line on upper Wand around noon today. Note they made snow at the Summit on Thursday so whatever the issue it’s new.
> 
> 16 or so guns going on 300 line covering lower mountain.



Then the idea of debris entering the high pressure system from the pond feed is highly unlikely.


----------



## slatham (Dec 27, 2022)

NYDB said:


> white out /uts/ vertigo was better than expected today and rotd.
> worth the trip to pick up the passes and take 8 or so runs.
> 
> blowing on show off, Wand and around the base area.
> ...


Ha exactly what I did, and I agree 100%.


----------



## doublediamond (Dec 27, 2022)

What is 300 400 line?


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 27, 2022)

300 line is the snowmaking pump and pipe that supplies Hocus Pocus and Showoff (also pretty much the only areas with electricity for fan guns). 400 line feeds up Wizard to the West side or up Carumba to Wand then Medium then Upper Carpet with branch lines. Both had a lot of guns running today.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 28, 2022)

__ https://www.facebook.com/whitetailresort/photos/a.165698110070/10160307079425071
			




For posterity's sake that's Whitetail discovering that their (apparently) only transfer pump is broken and announcing that they'll be out of action for at least a couple days while it's repaired.

https://www.facebook.com/1000635959...Sf4EjtwgAPWcLkqYsGXg9ZLSNfnK9P51ZpBl/?app=fbl 

That's Laurel Mtn who also lost their pumping ability during this cold snap.

Sound familiar?

This kind of thing does happen every so often.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Dec 28, 2022)

Both Vail Owned... 

But point taken


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 28, 2022)

Whitetail was fairly well cared for under Snowtime, while Laurel was recently rebuilt from old bones left to sit for years - both have deep pockets to expedite holiday season repairs, but they have very different histories.


----------



## skiur (Dec 28, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/whitetailresort/photos/a.165698110070/10160307079425071
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure, but that's probably the only major problem they have had lately.  If the pump was the only problem magic has had in the last few years I doubt anyone would be saying anything.  Most people gave magic a pass for 3 years here outside of Hugh, but eventually enough is enough.


----------



## doublediamond (Dec 29, 2022)

So Vail now has 3 major pump failures at resorts they purchased? Shit happens but when something that unlikely happens thrice in two years is a completely different story.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Dec 29, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Whitetail was fairly well cared for under Snowtime, while Laurel was recently rebuilt from old bones left to sit for years - both have deep pockets to expedite holiday season repairs, but they have very different histories.



Oh I'm well aware of both. We used to ski Laurel in College with snowmobiles while it was closed. I need to get back there before Vail doesn't renew  the lease with the State


----------



## NYDB (Dec 29, 2022)

Magic delivered this afternoon


----------



## ne_skier (Dec 29, 2022)

Wow that actually looks pretty good...fair to say December snow beat Christmas rain this time around


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 29, 2022)

What's with the snowmaking pipe on Black Line above Witch? That I did not know existed...


----------



## NYDB (Dec 29, 2022)

not skimping on the beef either


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 29, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> What's with the snowmaking pipe on Black Line above Witch? That I did not know existed...


I think in theory it's live, even. I wouldn't particularly volunteer to go sit on it when they first charge it but at minimum it's in the loop for air.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 29, 2022)

Sounds like my old hill. Two trails with live air and dead water lol.

Does that go up Black Magic all the way up and tie into Wizard at the old triple terminus? I've never seen it before I assumed Witch was downfed into Black Line and thats all there was in that area.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 29, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Sounds like my old hill. Two trails with live air and dead water lol.
> 
> Does that go up Black Magic all the way up and tie into Wizard at the old triple terminus? I've never seen it before I assumed Witch was downfed into Black Line and thats all there was in that area.


Probably going to have to check out your old hill, if it's the Whale you are referring to, this season, as my college freshman daughter has 2 race weekends there this season...

Heck her race weekend schedule of a 10 day Sunday River training camp (starting next Tuesday) then 2 weekends at Jay, 2 weekends at the Whale, 1 weekend at Dartmouth, and then if (more likely when in her case) a weekend for the Eastern Championships at Sugarloaf, sounds like multiple fun road trips for me this year!


----------



## slatham (Dec 30, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Sounds like my old hill. Two trails with live air and dead water lol.
> 
> Does that go up Black Magic all the way up and tie into Wizard at the old triple terminus? I've never seen it before I assumed Witch was downfed into Black Line and thats all there was in that area.


No that swings back into Witch via the traverse that goes across to the intersection of Red Line and Witch. No hydrants IIRC.


----------



## slatham (Dec 30, 2022)

Sorcerer. There have been wholes seasons where it didn’t ski this well. ROTD.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2022)

slatham said:


> No that swings back into Witch via the traverse that goes across to the intersection of Red Line and Witch. No hydrants IIRC.


Oh. So there is the pipe set on Witch where it meets Black Line and this other set with goes up Black Magic a bit then swings over to Witch too?


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Probably going to have to check out your old hill, if it's the Whale you are referring to, this season, as my college freshman daughter has 2 race weekends there this season...
> 
> Heck her race weekend schedule of a 10 day Sunday River training camp (starting next Tuesday) then 2 weekends at Jay, 2 weekends at the Whale, 1 weekend at Dartmouth, and then if (more likely when in her case) a weekend for the Eastern Championships at Sugarloaf, sounds like multiple fun road trips for me this year!



Good luck hopefully they're even open. They can't make snow to save their lives. Judging from the footage I saw of their delayed opening from two days ago they barely made anything from the chair unload down to the race trail. It won't fair this week well at all.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Dec 30, 2022)

Magic has a dismal snow report today due to an inversion. They took Monday skiing off the calendar. It would seem Sunday is very sketchy.


----------



## Keelhauled (Dec 30, 2022)

It's going to get really ugly really fast all over.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 30, 2022)

doubt if they'll be open 1/1 or 1/5-1/8 for that matter.  no opportunities to blow


----------



## slatham (Dec 30, 2022)

Overnight snow loss was amazingly disappointing. Sorcerer went from very good to barely makeable in 24 hours. Hopefully they have enough to keep Green running. 

Models consistent with colder air mass arriving Thursday, so there is hope for the weekend of Jan 7th if they can get 36+ hours of snowmaking, and the system runs ok.


----------



## doublediamond (Dec 30, 2022)

Thanks for the info up thread. While we’re talking about snowmaking, do they have a 100 and 200 line too? 500?


----------



## slatham (Dec 30, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> Thanks for the info up thread. While we’re talking about snowmaking, do they have a 100 and 200 line too? 500?



No. Pretty sure they refer to 300 and 400 due to horse power of pumps.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2022)

There used to be a 200 line for the learning area, but that's been gone for a decade plus.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 31, 2022)

Is the new Learning Area line stabbed off the Wizard upline now vs direct from pumphouse?


----------



## NYDB (Dec 31, 2022)

looking again at the forecast, they should be able to resurface beginner area, park and main base area and probably get Wand to showoff back online by next weekend.  I think that would be best case scenario for them.


----------



## skithetrees (Dec 31, 2022)

NYDB said:


> looking again at the forecast, they should be able to resurface beginner area, park and main base area and probably get Wand to showoff back online by next weekend.  I think that would be best case scenario for them.


Agreed. It’s a real shame. All natural snow will probably be gone by the weekend. I am eternally positive, but is hard to be when the skiing is what it was today. Second weekend in January and we are only going to be skiing the green chair, if even that. Current report says they will start making snow Friday night—not sure how that will work for a Saturday opening. They have three months to make money and are blowing two of the three best opportunities (MLK and Christmas) yet again. If it wasn’t a holiday weekend, they probably wouldn’t have even opened today, the skiing was that thin in places. But at least they banked a bunch of snow in the snow park for the broken handle tow. The deck is nice, but make sure the other stuff works first.  I want to bring friends here, but is hard when I have to time it to a snow storm and I am fielding questions every year about when will the quad be ready—I tell them every year it will be next year.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 31, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Is the new Learning Area line stabbed off the Wizard upline now vs direct from pumphouse?


Yep, runs off of Wizard (and you can run it without charging the rest of West Side).


----------



## NYDB (Dec 31, 2022)

why no blt on 1/1?  

I figure they would have a decent nfl bar crowd at least.    open at 11 for bloodys .  I'm sure you could make 10k.

Magic has been described to me multiple times as a bar with a ski area attached.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 31, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Yep, runs off of Wizard (and you can run it without charging the rest of West Side).



Thanks. Do you have a piping map for them?


----------



## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

skithetrees said:


> Agreed. It’s a real shame. All natural snow will probably be gone by the weekend. I am eternally positive, but is hard to be when the skiing is what it was today. Second weekend in January and we are only going to be skiing the green chair, if even that. Current report says they will start making snow Friday night—not sure how that will work for a Saturday opening. They have three months to make money and are blowing two of the three best opportunities (MLK and Christmas) yet again. If it wasn’t a holiday weekend, they probably wouldn’t have even opened today, the skiing was that thin in places. But at least they banked a bunch of snow in the snow park for the broken handle tow. The deck is nice, but make sure the other stuff works first.  I want to bring friends here, but is hard when I have to time it to a snow storm and I am fielding questions every year about when will the quad be ready—I tell them every year it will be next year.


I get the frustration, I’m with you. But a comparable Mtn to Magic is Mad River and they have suspended ski operations today as well. If they don’t get a storm by next weekend they won’t open either. They cannot help this weather pattern.


----------



## AdironRider (Jan 1, 2023)

The only thing comparable between Magic and Mad River is that both places have basically zero snowmaking currently.


----------



## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

AdironRider said:


> The only thing comparable between Magic and Mad River is that both places have basically zero snowmaking currently.


You ever ski Magic? You ever ski Mad River? You ever make it off the groomers? The terrain is very similar. Also the local community is similar. And Magic has a better bar.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 1, 2023)

He means from an operational competency perspective.


----------



## slatham (Jan 1, 2023)

Newpylong said:


> Thanks. Do you have a piping map for them?



No. But my recollection from that section is via hiking/glade clearing. And BTW that "upper" black line pipe doesn't seem connected to anything. Seems the line comes down Witch and Blackline and dead-ends just after the ledges section, where the 300 line goes up to before heading east to the traverse, through Wand, into Showoff.


----------



## foofy (Jan 1, 2023)

Bubba said:


> You ever ski Magic? You ever ski Mad River? You ever make it off the groomers? The terrain is very similar. Also the local community is similar. And Magic has a better bar.


Yes, yes, and yes.  Disagree on all three of your assessments.


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 1, 2023)

foofy said:


> Yes, yes, and yes.  Disagree on all three of your assessments.


I do call it the MRG of the south. Terrain wise, don’t know the culture of either and really not a fan of the blt.


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 1, 2023)

Smellytele said:


> I do call it the MRG of the south. Terrain wise, don’t know the culture of either and really not a fan of the blt.


I draw parallels between MRG and Plattekill


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## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

KustyTheKlown said:


> He means from an operational competency perspectiv





KustyTheKlown said:


> He means from an operational competency perspective.





KustyTheKlown said:


> He means from an operational competency





foofy said:


> Yes, yes, and yes.  Disagree on all three of your assessments.


You obviously have never met the locals at either area, cause the community is the same. While MRG is obviously bigger, the terrain is very similar. If you don’t agree, you’ve never had a proper tour of Magic. It’s ok, ask a local, they are great and would be happy to show you.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 1, 2023)

calm down new guy. 

i love magic, i have been a passholder, and i've skied every inch of it. 'meeting the locals' has fuck all to do with it. 

the comment was about operational competency, which mad river glen has in spades. magic doesn't. its unfortunate. i want them to succeed. how many times can you say 'bad luck'


----------



## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

KustyTheKlown said:


> calm down new guy.
> 
> i love magic, i have been a passholder, and i've skied every inch of it. 'meeting the locals' has fuck all to do with it.
> 
> the comment was about operational competency, which mad river glen has in spades. magic doesn't. its unfortunate. i want them to succeed. how many times can you say 'bad luck'


Somehow your quote was added. I was talking to the dude who’s obviously never skied anything off the trail map at Magic. Magic has always been an operational shit show. Us locals are aware and are frustrated as anyone. But anyone writing the terrain and vibe aren’t  comparable to MRG is putting their ignorance on full display.  Their needs to be some logic to the hate.


----------



## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

KustyTheKlown said:


> calm down new guy.
> 
> i love magic, i have been a passholder, and i've skied every inch of it. 'meeting the locals' has fuck all to do with it.
> 
> the comment was about operational competency, which mad river glen has in spades. magic doesn't. its unfortunate. i want them to succeed. how many times can you say 'bad luck'


Also, I can guarantee you’ve never skied every inch of it without skiing with a local.


----------



## zyk (Jan 1, 2023)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> I draw parallels between MRG and Plattekill


I like this.  Regarding Magic... Plattekill gets things done.  in the summer the lift shack and controls got torched by lightning...  Oh that lift is running now.


----------



## ThatGuy (Jan 1, 2023)

Watch out Kusty big boy Bubba has a gps on you and knows where you been…
Got that local 6th sense.

Realistically its not that hard to ski all the inbounds terrain at Magic, you could easily do it in one season if the snow is good.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 1, 2023)

with the tracking app its particularly easy. just about every set of woods between the trees is skiable, as well as the shoulders out of bounds on both sides. cool secrets, bro.


----------



## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

KustyTheKlown said:


> with the tracking app its particularly easy. just about every set of woods between the trees is skiable, as well as the shoulders out of bounds on both sides. cool secrets, bro.





ThatGuy said:


> Watch out Kusty big boy Bubba has a gps on you and knows where you been…
> Got that local 6th sense.
> 
> Realistically its not that hard to ski all the inbounds terrain at Magic, you could easily do it in one season if the snow is good.


I don’t need a GPS to know you can’t find it all without a local. We’ve cut it all and maintain it. There’s the low hanging fruit- trees between trails and the shoulders and then there’s the nooks and crannies. Honestly I’m always happy to show people around. This convo was about the comparison of Magic and MRG. I’d add to that, the locals at Magic are way more willing to show you around than at Mad.


----------



## foofy (Jan 1, 2023)

@Bubba I've been a passholder multiple years at both.  Both great mountains, I know the nooks and crannies, and the communities.  I still disagree with your assessment, but that doesn't make me the ignorant one.


----------



## mtl1076 (Jan 1, 2023)

This is fun to watch play out. Are there similarities between the two, absolutely. Are they close to the same, no. Not terrain, not community, I’d maybe give the bar nod to magic at this point, maybe.

And on the community front I’m not saying one better than the other. They just aren’t the same.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 1, 2023)

So I don't know who was there the afternoon on the 29th last week ( I know @slatham was there)  but it was so great for 4-5 hours. so great. 
  that's why I love magic.  Holiday week, no lift lines, legit expert terrain open on soft snow decent but low tide coverage on West side, and a sunny afternoon to enjoy it.  

I know that wasn't the scene at stratton, bromley, okemo, or mount snow that day.  If you were at magic that afternoon it was like you were getting away with something.  looking around like - why the fuck ain't more people here?

  it's because everyone waits for great conditions to show up, and they miss middling conditions magic.  which is my favorite magic.  totally blows away anything south of Pico even 60% open.  


anyway......


----------



## Bubba (Jan 1, 2023)

mtl1076 said:


> This is fun to watch play out. Are there similarities between the two, absolutely. Are they close to the same, no. Not terrain, not community, I’d maybe give the bar nod to magic at this point, maybe.
> 
> And on the community front I’m not saying one better than the other. They just aren’t the same.


The more I think about it, you’re right. Magic lacks the pretentious, I’m cooler than you vibe you get at MRG. Both local tribes are extremely dedicated to their mountain, just in different ways.  Terrain wise, Magic is a half size MRG. Is what it is.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 1, 2023)

NYDB said:


> So I don't know who was there the afternoon on the 29th last week ( I know @slatham was there)  but it was so great for 4-5 hours. so great.
> that's why I love magic.  Holiday week, no lift lines, legit expert terrain open on soft snow decent but low tide coverage on West side, and a sunny afternoon to enjoy it.
> 
> I know that wasn't the scene at stratton, bromley, okemo, or mount snow that day.  If you were at magic that afternoon it was like you were getting away with something.  looking around like - why the fuck ain't more people here?
> ...


Regardless of what mountain I am at that day, I will say that I have tons of days that ended up being really good, fun days where the day or 2 before, or even early on that day I skied, just looking at the forecast I wouldn't of expected it to be good/fun, and thought about not putting my gear on and going out for what I initially anticipated to be just a couple of runs.

I truthfully wonder if those who choose to mainly just chase "great" days instead of just getting out there and skiing regardless, really love the sport or just seek the social media accolades they get from posting up about a "great" day the chased???

I know today for me, which I wasn't expecting much, turned into a really fun day, and so many of my friends in the bar for apres had the same feeling


----------



## Do Work (Jan 1, 2023)

Newpylong said:


> Is the new Learning Area line stabbed off the Wizard upline now vs direct from pumphouse?



Yes it connects to the west side upline, but was installed with uphill valving that will let it terminate flow there- thus allowing the East/West valves to both be open simultaneously and run the learning center while sending water East early season. 

The Witch pipe is fed from the 400 summit line off of upper carpet.  It runs straight down witch and crosses down onto blackline, terminating at the bottom of the ledges which is also right where the 300’s apex is. 

On the bright side the air aftercooler that was rebuilt last year works great so that’s a solid addition.  Shame about the weather outlook, nothing those guys can do until that changes and when I drove by today it was pretty much all dirt on naturals.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 2, 2023)

Makes perfect sense thanks Matt. What's the deal with the pipe that goes up the ledges there? I was puzzled to its purpose and where it went...IE did the 300 originally keep going etc.


----------



## Do Work (Jan 2, 2023)

Newpylong said:


> Makes perfect sense thanks Matt. What's the deal with the pipe that goes up the ledges there? I was puzzled to its purpose and where it went...IE did the 300 originally keep going etc.



Do you mean up on Witch under Red?  That’s where it used to also run over to the “upper upper black” via that traverse that comes out just below Pitch Black and Black Magic.  No idea why it’s so high up in the air like that other than being my litmus test on which cliffs are sendable.  All that pipe on that section west of Witch is disconnected.  Only Witch and below is live currently.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 2, 2023)

Yeah the set that I spotted that keeps going up past the intersection of Black Line and Witch. Steve said it cut back over a Traverse towards Witch I was just wondering what the heck it was there for or why they would ever make snow up there in the past.


----------



## IceEidolon (Jan 3, 2023)

Well that's shiny as heck!


----------



## Tin (Jan 3, 2023)

Bubba said:


> The more I think about it, you’re right. Magic lacks the pretentious, I’m cooler than you vibe you get at MRG.



Except for some of the ski patrol at Magic.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 3, 2023)

IceEidolon said:


> Well that's shiny as heck!



He's a good friend of mine and does amazing work.


----------



## IceEidolon (Jan 3, 2023)

Plus, Polecat controls, valves, new nozzles - it should be a lot more maintainable than a vanilla Areco now.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Jan 3, 2023)

So was that a rehab of an Areco? or a new PoleCat?


----------



## ne_skier (Jan 3, 2023)

Rehab, per Magic social media


----------



## NYDB (Jan 3, 2023)

looking at the forecast again they may as well stay closed this upcoming weekend. maybe open beginner area and park Sunday?   hopefully the snowmaking system works and they can have a handful of man made trails by mlk weekend.  or maybe it could actually snow (I know, I know - crazy)


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 3, 2023)

jimmywilson69 said:


> So was that a rehab of an Areco? or a new PoleCat?


A fairly expensive conversion. From a high level the chassis, barrel, compressor and fan stays the rest goes and is replaced.


----------



## doublediamond (Jan 3, 2023)

hat’s not an Areco shaped barrel. It’s been replaced.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 4, 2023)

I wouldn't have said the barrel stayed if he replaced it. The red sheet metal skin was removed and a Polecat sticker added, it's the same Areco stainless barrel. The Arecos looks a lot different without the skin and big nozzle cover, less square.


----------



## IceEidolon (Jan 4, 2023)

Definitely a conversion, not a new barrel. I know Polecats and that's not an SMI barrel.


----------



## NYDB (Jan 5, 2023)

Just got the email.  Closed this weekend. 

It’s going to be mid Jan before they will be open more than 7 days.  

rough weather is the new norm down here.


----------



## Harvey (Jan 5, 2023)

NYDB said:


> Just got the email.  Closed this weekend.
> 
> It’s going to be mid Jan before they will be open more than 7 days.
> 
> rough weather is the new norm down here.



I didn't get it, I usually do?  Can you post it here?

I see on the website tickets for sale for Saturday, but not Sunday.


----------



## urungus (Jan 5, 2023)

I didn’t get an email either, here is todays alpine update from magicmtn.com

1/5 Quick Update:

We wish you all a happy New Year! The ski area is closed this week due to continued unseasonable and significant wet weather through this week once again. As a result, snowmaking operations will begin from basically scratch possibly Friday Night depending on temperatures. Daytime temps will still be too warm. Most likely we will have top-to-bottom skiing by MLK weekend. If we can get anything open before then we will certainly try. Natural snow would be welcome!

While the ski area will be closed, the Black Line Tavern will be open Thursday and Friday for dinner starting at 4pm and Saturday at 11am for lunch and dinner. Jill Sachs and Chris Mays will be playing from 4-8pm on Saturday!


----------



## Harvey (Jan 5, 2023)

urungus said:


> The ski area is closed this week



I saw this on the website, I interpreted to mean they would reopen Saturday, but on the homepage it does say "Reopen 1/12."

Still tickets for Saturday look to be available:


----------



## Keelhauled (Jan 5, 2023)

Hmm, which seems more likely...that someone fat fingered removing Saturday from sale, or that they plan to make and groom out sufficient snow, starting from bare ground, to cover a way down the mountain in the space of about six hours on Friday night. 

Personally, I'm torn.


----------



## Harvey (Jan 5, 2023)

Thanks.  Not following it closely enough to know they had nothing down.


----------



## IceEidolon (Sunday at 11:20 AM)

Instagram and their webcam show both a demo DemacLenko EVO (which - side note, that's a sweet little fan gun. I got to demo one in PA and it more than kept up with the adjacent tower Arecos fans, and the adjustable swing angle is huge for making things easy on the snowcat pushing out your pile. Just pricey relative to used fans. Anyway.) and their Areco to Polecat conversion running in the base area. No word I've seen on exactly what's running above the base area yet - my money is on Wand to Showoff.


----------



## bigbob (Sunday at 5:11 PM)

Making snow at the summit per their Facebook post.





__ https://www.facebook.com/skimagicvt/photos/a.10151850693457038/10158808081292038


----------



## NYDB (Monday at 7:51 AM)

I wonder what trails they can lay enough snow down on to survive an inch and a half of rain and come out the other side skiable for mlk weekend. 

probably one way down from the summit and 2 from mid mountain.  Or maybe just mid mountain.

may as well stay closed until 1/14.


----------



## Newpylong (Monday at 8:46 AM)

Considering yesterday they only had a handful of guns running on one compressor, who knows. HKD stuff all parked.


----------



## ThatGuy (Monday at 10:05 AM)

Made the call to go Indy Pass this season instead of Magic+Indy. If this trend continues I won’t even use both days. Very sad state of affairs…


----------



## IceEidolon (Monday at 4:14 PM)

Newpylong said:


> Considering yesterday they only had a handful of guns running on one compressor, who knows. HKD stuff all parked.


Was that for a curtailment or a warmup?


----------



## Newpylong (Monday at 4:33 PM)

It was 25 at the base and dry, but not entirely sure the real reason. Maybe they are still having water issues I don't know. Logic would say more air for a warm up, not less. Considering the mountain doesn't have enough snow to open I would be going balls to the wall anywhere I could to get one of the two chairs running.


----------



## IceEidolon (Monday at 5:43 PM)

Photos from today from up top with Carpet down through Medium online - that's sure not nothing.


----------



## slatham (Monday at 5:53 PM)

They showed pic of UMC with rats running and medium with HKD towers. With HKD’s requiring high water pressure, they usually don’t run them up top. And of course medium has fixed equipment. So portable HKD’s not needed until they work their way down. And of course the bottom 300 line has fans, which have been going based on cam. They did run some portable HKD towers in the terrain park per cam. 

Obviously going for UMC, Medium, Wand, Showoff. 

We need the weekend storm to deliver on the back end. First storm is snow to rain Thur night/Friday. Some indications a second storm forms mid Atlantic and heads up with SoVT on colder west side. Could deliver. Highly uncertain.


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## Newpylong (Monday at 8:14 PM)

My observations were from yesterday, not today.


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## IceEidolon (Tuesday at 1:57 PM)

They just confirmed on Insta they're running Medium to Showoff and that's what they want to open for Thursday.


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## ne_skier (Yesterday at 10:18 PM)

UMC -> Medium -> Wand -> Showoff plus terrain park and beginner carpet area for Thurs-Sun. Hope they're right about the crowds this weekend or that'll burn out quick.
Pray for snow


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## NYDB (Today at 6:57 AM)

Hopefully they’ll turn the guns back on after the rain when they get the temps Saturday.


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## slatham (Today at 3:25 PM)

Hopefully they’ll turn the guns back on after the rain when they get the temps Saturday.

They’ll get temps Friday evening straight through to Sunday, maybe to Monday. The big question is how much repair vs moving to new terrain?


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## IceEidolon (Today at 3:53 PM)

My question is what the priorities are - beginner terrain from Green or Trick from the summit or what.


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## NYDB (Today at 5:35 PM)

probably carumba to lower red line then lower magic carpet.


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## JoeB-Z (40 minutes ago)

It was really ok today considering. I only skied from the top once because there was heavy icefog until you got to the top of Green. Showoff will need help on Friday night/Saturday as they barely got it done.


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## IceEidolon (29 minutes ago)

NYDB said:


> probably carumba to lower red line then lower magic carpet.


Carumba/Lower Red they don't like to run when they make on the upper mountain, and it's the same pump they have to use for, say, the rest of Upper Carpet. I think the Upper Carpet and Trick area is likely next, then Lower Carpet or Carumba.


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