# PSA Vt Hand Held Device Law Enforcement



## deadheadskier (Apr 3, 2015)

Just want to share an experience I just had in Stowe.   First I have no issue with cell phone bans while driving.  Using the phone while driving is unnecessary and dangerous.  That said, a bit of leeway for when you have the car in park seems fair to me.

Today in Stowe, I was stopped at the Little River bridge construction site.   I had the car in park.  My car was in park as they let the on coming traffic through the one open lane.   I glanced at my phone to see if an email I was expecting from a client came in.  The flagger walks up to my car and says, "just so you know, one of the flaggers on the other side of the bridge is an undercover cop and he's looking for cell phone use.  Because this is a work zone he is writing $500 tickets.". 

Sure enough later in the morning I saw him pull a driver out of line and into an adjacent parking lot.  If I had looked at my phone on the other side of the bridge I would've been nailed while the car was in park.

Little over the top enforcement no?

And yes I know VT has a revenue problem.


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## Puck it (Apr 3, 2015)

What does Vt. Law say?  No texting?  Then just say you were changing your song.  Mass. says that is okay.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 3, 2015)

Not a surprise on both points.  Vermont is just out of control.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 3, 2015)

No idea.  Just happy the flagger gave me the heads up on the undercover cop across the bridge.


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## dlague (Apr 3, 2015)

Many States/Towns are running into budget problems and are trying to find ways to get more revenue - I am not surprised.  It is becoming a serious problem with our country and only going to get worse!


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## ScottySkis (Apr 3, 2015)

Sorry dead head that bs.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 3, 2015)

Oh no worries.  I didn't get a ticket. Just warning folks to watch out and be careful.  I've never seen a cop go undercover as a road crew flagger.  Way over the top


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## Not Sure (Apr 3, 2015)

My Parents used to live near Ocean City Md, was on a straight stetch of highway near Salisbury Md. when I passed a creative speed trap.
Cop was in a cherry picker fully extended up near the top of a telephone pole...pretending to be working on the lines wearing a yellow jacket and Radar gun in hand.
Down stream they had 4 cars pulled over....luckly my foot was'nt too heavy that day.Work zone multiplier too


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## freeski (Apr 3, 2015)

When you're going into Maine on I95 the police stand on the bridges over the interstate with radar guns. You get a half mile up the road and you have a line of unmarked cars on the side of an onramp. Then you see lots of cars being pulled over. They seem to set up this speed trap on the nicest of summer days.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 3, 2015)

freeski said:


> When you're going into Maine on I95 the police stand on the bridges over the interstate with radar guns. You get a half mile up the road and you have a line of unmarked cars on the side of an onramp. Then you see lots of cars being pulled over. They seem to set up this speed trap on the nicest of summer days.



Yup.  that used to drive me crazy when I lived in Maine.  From just south of Wells to Biddeford it's speed trap city.

89 South in both VT and NH today were loaded with cops.   101 as well.   Maybe the cops figured people had heavy feet out driving around on the first real spring like day of the year.


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## Geoff (Apr 4, 2015)

Puck it said:


> What does Vt. Law say?  No texting?  Then just say you were changing your song.  Mass. says that is okay.



Vermont law is that you can't physically touch your cell phone for any reason.   New Hampshire is going to have the exact same law this summer.  July maybe?  It's only a matter of time before Massholia adopts it.     Vermont is a $100 (minimum) to $200 fine the first time and $250 (minimum) to $500 subsequent times.  If it's in a work zone, it's also 2 points on your license the first time and 5 points subsequent times.

The 2015 Subaru Outback / iPhone integration lets me do hands free fairly well.  I can usually hit the button on the steering wheel, do a "Hey Siri", and do basic phone and text functions.   

Vermont now sucks so bad with traffic tickets for anything & everything that I drive like I'm taking my driver's license test.  Complete stop at stop signs.  Turn signals pulling onto the road from a parking lot.  The EZpass is in the glove box because it's a fine to have it behind the mirror (huh?).  I use cruise control at all times.   At Killington, I won't even drive on East Mountain Road because it's posted 25 mph.  At 25 mph, it's not a short cut.   Vermont plates doesn't help.  The Killington cops don't write tickets but the State Police do and there is often a Rutland County Sheriff around looking for easy pickings.   Bridgewater, Mendon, and Woodstock are now automatic tickets at 10 mph over and iffy at 5 mph over.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 4, 2015)

What's ridiculous is that an iPod takes the same effort to operate as a cell phone for music.   Are they going to ban those too?

The NH law does go into affect July 1st.


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## legalskier (Apr 4, 2015)

They don't like waze either.

_*Sheriffs expand concerns about Waze traffic app, complain it interferes with speeding tickets*_
http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=726&ArticleID=124700


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## Geoff (Apr 5, 2015)

legalskier said:


> They don't like waze either.



What cop would want drivers to know about speed traps?  Of course they object to Waze.


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## Glenn (Apr 6, 2015)

legalskier said:


> They don't like waze either.
> 
> _*Sheriffs expand concerns about Waze traffic app, complain it interferes with speeding tickets*_
> http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=726&ArticleID=124700



Waze is wonderful. I use it daily. It's a huge help with traffic as well.


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## Puck it (Apr 6, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> What's ridiculous is that an iPod takes the same effort to operate as a cell phone for music.   Are they going to ban those too?
> 
> The NH law does go into affect July 1st.



Mass allows use of a music player. What about food?  Shouldn't they ban that too. That Chipotle burrito takes two hands to eat.


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## dlague (Apr 6, 2015)

legalskier said:


> They don't like waze either.
> 
> _*Sheriffs expand concerns about Waze traffic app, complain it interferes with speeding tickets*_
> http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=726&ArticleID=124700



I have a friend that is a state trooper and they often will put in false reports since they know it will slow down speeds.  They also will go in and mark valid locations as "no longer there".  In effect, they are trying to discredit the tool.

I have used it several times but almost got busted because there was an officer in a location not reported yet.  It gets tricky.


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## ctenidae (Apr 6, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Mass allows use of a music player. What about food? Shouldn't they ban that too. That Chipotle burrito takes two hands to eat.



And four stomachs.

It does constantly amaze me the number of things I see people doing other than driving when I'm out driving. And then I'm amazed that it continues to amaze me. And then I see something that goes above and beyond amazing, to amaze me all over again. The other day it was a person (I hesitate to call her a driver) putting on her reading glasses at every stop.


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## gmcunni (Apr 6, 2015)

dlague said:


> I have a friend that is a state trooper and they often will put in false reports since they know it will slow down speeds.  They also will go in and mark valid locations as "no longer there".  In effect, they are trying to discredit the tool.



saw an exec from WAZE interviewed a few months back and they said they are pretty good at rooting out false reports and getting better all the time.  


the example given was a user putting in a "fake" police site.. many other users (some with a high score, which equals long time users) will report it not there so it goes away.. if the same user does this over and over then WAZE starts to ignore that user.

same with removals, if someone says "not there" and others re-report that incident then that "not there" user's reputation in the WAZE app diminishes and they stop contributing.

no system is perfect, i find waze pretty good.


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## Geoff (Apr 6, 2015)

I wish Apple would do a good Siri integration with Waze.  I'm trying to use voice control for everything.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 6, 2015)

I use Waze all the time and love it, but I hate it when people start reporting stupid stuff like fog or rain. I can tell what the damn weather is and it just covers up my screen.


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## gmcunni (Apr 6, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> I use Waze all the time and love it, but I hate it when people start reporting stupid stuff like fog or rain. I can tell what the damn weather is and it just covers up my screen.



I enjoy the road kill reports


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## deadheadskier (Apr 7, 2015)

Geoff said:


> I wish Apple would do a good Siri integration with Waze.  I'm trying to use voice control for everything.



Have they improved Siri on iPhone6?  I have a 5 for work and the Google voice recognition software on my Android is far superior to Siri.  Siri searches too locally instead of processing my request verbatim.


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## bvibert (Apr 7, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> I use Waze all the time and love it, but I hate it when people start reporting stupid stuff like fog or rain. I can tell what the damn weather is and it just covers up my screen.



I haven't seen that too much around here, but yesterday morning it was very foggy everywhere and I kept getting alerts every few miles on the highway.  Very annoying.


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## gmcunni (Apr 7, 2015)

you get points when you file reports, maybe the cops are filling a bunch of weather reports on Waze to build up their credibility so they can then use that to report fake police traps ???


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## Scruffy (Apr 7, 2015)

Geoff said:


> Vermont now sucks so bad with traffic tickets for anything .....   The *EZpass is in the glove box because it's a fine to have it behind the mirror* (huh?). .



WTF? Is that true? Why would that be an issue?


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## Puck it (Apr 7, 2015)

Headlights on with wipers on required in Mass. starting today.


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## gmcunni (Apr 7, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Headlights on with wipers on required in Mass. starting today.



wonder if "driving lights" count.  not the full strength low beams but they do illuminate.


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## Puck it (Apr 7, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> wonder if "driving lights" count.  not the full strength low beams but they do illuminate.


I would think so.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 7, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> wonder if "driving lights" count.  not the full strength low beams but they do illuminate.





Puck it said:


> I would think so.



Taillights need to be on too. DRL usually doesn't include the taillights so you'll still need to turn the regular lights on.


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## freeski (Apr 7, 2015)

They had to throw in the rear lights just to be dick heads.


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## Puck it (Apr 7, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> Taillights need to be on too. DRL usually doesn't include the taillights so you'll still need to turn the regular lights on.


That is bullshit.  F'ing nanny state!!!!!!


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## deadheadskier (Apr 7, 2015)

The concept of a fine is pretty lame, but I pretty much always drive with my lights on anyways.  It should be common sense to turn on lights in foul weather, but people are idiots.  I'll drive with my lights on even during a sunny day.  I figure if the lights catch the attention of an otherwise distracted driver, then that's a good thing.


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## ctenidae (Apr 7, 2015)

I leave my lights on because I think they look bad ass.

Not really, mine are always on automatic. They turn on when the auto wipers turn on. I wonder, though, why it's SOP for car dealers and service centers to turn the auto lights off every time they take the car. So annoying.


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## Puck it (Apr 7, 2015)

ctenidae said:


> I leave my lights on because I think they look bad ass.
> 
> Not really, mine are always on automatic. They turn on when the auto wipers turn on. I wonder, though, why it's SOP for car dealers and service centers to turn the auto lights off every time they take the car. So annoying.


Probably because they turn on in the garage and are bright.


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## Puck it (Apr 7, 2015)

The MA wiper law is an insurance scam.  The ticket is $5 but a moving violation so the insurance company is making the money not the towns.  I probably costs more to process the ticket then the fine.  WTF!!!!!!!


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## mlctvt (Apr 7, 2015)

CT has the wiper law too. If your wipers are on your lights have to be too. 
Makes perfect sense to me. It's amazing that people don't put on their lights in driving rain when you can't see more than 50 feet. I like our Subarus; when you turn off the car ignition the lights as go off as well, so you can jut leave the switch in the on position all the time.


The Feds are considering forcing car manufacturers to have lights come on automatically when the wipers are activated. I wouldn't doubt this becoming law in the coming years.


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## gmcunni (Apr 7, 2015)

mlctvt said:


> CT has the wiper law too. If your wipers are on your lights have to be too.



timely. my 16YO daughter has her permit and we were out driving today.  as the rain fell and the wipers went on i told her about the MA law and she asked it was a CT law also, to which i confessed i had no idea


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## Geoff (Apr 7, 2015)

Vermont law says the only place you can put anything but an inspection sticker on a windshield is a small area on the top driver's side or bottom passenger's side.   

When the Vermont State Police are in rabid "pull over any car for anything hoping to get a DUI" mode on the Killington Access Road on Friday and Saturday evenings, they pull over all the cars with Vermont plates that have an EZPass behind the mirror.

Here is part of the statute:


> 23 V.S.A. § 1125
> 
> * 1125. Obstructing windshields*
> (a) No person shall  paste, stick, or paint advertising matter or other things on or over any  transparent part of a motor vehicle windshield, vent windows, or side  windows located immediately to the left and right of the operator, nor  hang any object, other than a rear view mirror, in back of the  windshield except as follows:
> ...


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## Geoff (Apr 7, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Headlights on with wipers on required in Mass. starting today.



I looked up the statute.  I don't get it.  It says nothing about windshield wipers.   It says that you need to use your headlights if visibility is reduced.   The way they define "headlamps", the daytime running lights on most cars probably don't qualify unless your DRL really are your headlights.  If it's sprinkling a bit and you're using intermittent wipers, I don't see how visibility is reduced.   If you're driving through smoke or a dust storm or a mosquito swarm, you need to use your headlights even though you're not using your wipers.

Here is the piece of the statute that was changed:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section7



> Every automobile operated during the period from one half an hour after  sunset to one half an hour before sunrise, and during any other period  when visibility is reduced by atmospheric conditions so as to render  dangerous further operation without lights being displayed, shall  display at least two lighted white headlamps with at least one mounted  at each side of the front of the vehicle


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## Geoff (Apr 7, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Have they improved Siri on iPhone6?  I have a 5 for work and the Google voice recognition software on my Android is far superior to Siri.  Siri searches too locally instead of processing my request verbatim.



Siri is software.  If you're running iOS 8.2, it has the same voice recognition capability on an iPhone 4S as it does on an iPhone 6.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 7, 2015)

Gotcha.  I'm not a computer guy.  All I know is the Siri software tends to over think things instead of just recording my voice commands and plugging it into a web search.

Example:  last Wednesday I arrived late into Logan and wanted to call the Marriott in VT I was staying at to tell them to hold my room.   I asked Siri for the number and kept getting local Marriott's in Mass.   Android got the number right on 1st try.   Stuff like this happens all the time while traveling for business


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## bvibert (Apr 8, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> timely. my 16YO daughter has her permit and we were out driving today.  as the rain fell and the wipers went on i told her about the MA law and she asked it was a CT law also, to which i confessed i had no idea



It's been that way for quite a while now.  At least that's what I was taught when I was learning to drive.

I don't know that's it's ever been enforced though.  It always amazes me how many people don't think to turn on their lights when it's raining or foggy.


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## gmcunni (Apr 8, 2015)

bvibert said:


> It's been that way for quite a while now.  At least that's what I was taught when I was learning to drive.
> 
> I don't know that's it's ever been enforced though.  It always amazes me how many people don't think to turn on their lights when it's raining or foggy.



i was taught the same but wasn't aware it was a law.  over the years as cars get smarter with driving lights i don't think about it but driving lights don't illuminate in the rear which seems like the law now


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## bvibert (Apr 8, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> i was taught the same but wasn't aware it was a law.  over the years as cars get smarter with driving lights i don't think about it but driving lights don't illuminate in the rear which seems like the law now



I thought it was a law when I learned to drive, but it could have been one of those common sense things.  Having your tail lights on in low visibility makes just as much sense as having your headlights on.  I've come up on cars, without their lights on, in rain/fog that I could barely see until I was pretty close to them.


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## gmcunni (Apr 8, 2015)

from AAA web site, can't be sure how accurate it is:



> Connecticut
> Headlights are required to be on 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise, in conditions of insufficent light/adverse weather, or when visibility is less than 500 feet.



no specific mention of wipers (other states do mention it)

but regardless wipers and lights is a good combo.


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## ctenidae (Apr 8, 2015)

According to page 38 of the CT DMV Driver's Handbook (http://www.ct.gov/dmv/lib/dmv/20/29/r12eng.pdf) Wipers plus lights is the law.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 9, 2015)

A lot of people in MA breaking the law in the last 24 hrs!


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## gmcunni (Apr 9, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> A lot of people in MA breaking the law in the last 24 hrs!



citizen's arrest!


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## skiNEwhere (Apr 11, 2015)

+1 on waze/Siri integration

It takes way too much effort and your eyes off the road as well to report a speedtrap


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## bvibert (Apr 13, 2015)

Waze does have built in voice commands (at least it does on Android), but it's turned off by default.  Once you enable it you just tap the screen with 3 fingers and it will listen for your command.


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## ALLSKIING (Apr 13, 2015)

I don't travel without a radar detector. Can't tell you how many tickets have been saved by that thing.


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## skiNEwhere (Apr 13, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> I don't travel without a radar detector. Can't tell you how many tickets have been saved by that thing.



Be careful though, cops are now using lidar which won't show on a normal scanner


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## gmcunni (Apr 13, 2015)

bvibert said:


> Waze does have built in voice commands (at least it does on Android), but it's turned off by default.  Once you enable it you just tap the screen with 3 fingers and it will listen for your command.



you can even set it to sense motion... i have it set to WAVE TWICE, i pass my hand infront of the phone x2 (i have iphone) and it asks what i want.. quick way to report speed traps and really don't have to look down, tho i do quickly turn off the radio to eliminate noise


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## ALLSKIING (Apr 13, 2015)

skiNEwhere said:


> Be careful though, cops are now using lidar which won't show on a normal scanner


It shows...Just harder to pick up. Especially on empty roads.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 14, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> A lot of people in MA breaking the law in the last 24 hrs!





gmcunni said:


> citizen's arrest!



On the drive home last week. Traffic was too slow for speeding and it was raining. The state police were pulling a lot of people over and I can only assume it was for not having lights on.


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## bvibert (Apr 14, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> you can even set it to sense motion... i have it set to WAVE TWICE, i pass my hand infront of the phone x2 (i have iphone) and it asks what i want.. quick way to report speed traps and really don't have to look down, tho i do quickly turn off the radio to eliminate noise



Yeah, I tried the waving thing, but I couldn't get it to work.  Maybe I just suck at waving??

Regarding the radio, I always stream music from my phone, so the music is automatically attenuated when Waze (or any other app) wants to talk, or is waiting for voice input.  I'll admit that I haven't actually used the voice commands with Waze, but I know it's there.  I do use Google Now (like Siri, but.. you know.. better) to send texts and whatnot using voice commands, it would be nice if Waze was integrated into it instead.


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