# Powder Mag: A Skier Goes East



## wtcobb (Feb 2, 2017)

http://www.powder.com/stories/wicked-pissah/a-skier-goes-east/#j1fstagDIxzfOgip.97

Some good lines in this piece.



> Personally, I always thought powder skiing was the easiest type of skiing. We ski over the rocks, then jump a waterfall to ski down over more rocks.


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## Smellytele (Feb 2, 2017)

Kind of a short lame article that goes nowhere


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## wtcobb (Feb 2, 2017)

...and then I found five dollars.


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## dlague (Feb 2, 2017)

Interesting article, but I have to admit I prefer where we are now.  The east does present challenges that I have not found in Colorado yet but most of those challenges I can live with out.

Skiing over rocks hitting a waterfall and then hitting more rocks does not exactly scream FUN.  I have skied in New England for over 30 years and frankly I really do not need to ski ice or rocks or  ski in the rain/freezing whatever.   So far the weather and snow have been very consistent and we have enjoyed it.  I also do recognize that east coast skiers do have a skill set not found in many the have lived here their entire lives.  Is the northeast a market to attract western skiers I do not think so.  In fact the ski shows in New England feature western resorts.  The ski show here, we'll nothing back east is represented. 

What do I miss about eastern skiing, the proximity of all the ski areas.  The skiers back east are more diehard compared to here IMO.  When skiing is good the narrower trails are super fun.  I also think the vibe is different back east.

I think this article does more bad than good for the Northeast because it makes it seem more threatening than it really is.

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## gmcunni (Feb 2, 2017)

west > east


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 2, 2017)

The only part of eastern skiing that's generally better than western skiing is the tree skiing (assuming you actually like "tree skiing" as opposed to skiing between widely spaced gaps between trees, which some people erroneously call "tree skiing").


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## dlague (Feb 2, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> The only part of eastern skiing that's generally better than western skiing is the tree skiing (assuming you actually like "tree skiing" as opposed to skiing between widely spaced gaps between trees, which some people erroneously call "tree skiing").


That is the lamest statement i have ever heard.  Every place I have been to has tree skiing that is just as tight as stuff I skied in New England.  Yes there are glades that are more spread out and guess what there are glades like that in New England.  I have done some tree skiing back east where trees were 3-4 apart and speeds were super slow to navigate.  I have found trees like that here too.  Personally I am not a fan of tight trees and bushwacking.  And who says how far apart trees have to be to be called tree skiing.  Is Timbuktoo a tree run?  I think it is and it is more open.  Is Andre's a tree run that is fairly open as well.  Or are you talking about tighter glades like Cannon has which some are so tight it feelsnloke bushwacking.  So what exactly is your criteria?

I will tell you one fundamental difference there are less hard woods tree skiing out west.

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## jimk (Feb 2, 2017)

No sympathy for anyone pissing and moaning about New England skiing.  It's the frigging bomb compared to mid-Atlantic skiing.

I am a sloppy, non-technical skier and not good for astute observations on style, but one difference between East and West I've noticed is Eastern skiers are very turny, great in tight spaces and know how to deal with firm/icy surfaces and crap conditions.  Out west the great skiers don't turn much, they do 5 GS turns down 750" vertical of steeps.  They gobble up terrain in big swoops and don't sweat the small stuff because they blow right by it.


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## dlague (Feb 2, 2017)

jimk said:


> No sympathy for anyone pissing and moaning about New England skiing.  It's the frigging bomb compared to mid-Atlantic skiing.
> 
> I am a sloppy, non-technical skier and not good for astute observations on style, but one difference between East and West I've noticed is Eastern skiers are very turny, great in tight spaces and know how to deal with firm/icy surfaces and crap conditions.  Out west the great skiers don't turn much, they do 5 GS turns down 750" vertical of steeps.  They gobble up terrain in big swoops and don't sweat the small stuff because they blow right by it.


I agree with that.

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## SkiFanE (Feb 2, 2017)

Have skied the East nearly ever winter since 1970 - 4-5 days in Tahoe in the 90s (on a very East conditions) is my west experience. So none lol. I can't ski pow well. But I could be one of the best female skiers you've seen.  Last winter when everyone bitched about sucky conditions, I still had 50 fun filled days. I hate ice - I go home if I can't find anything decent (probably 2 days/yr).  But when I see people's pics and videos from the West - I wonder how long until I'd get bored.  MRG is my type of place. The unexpected terrain, you never know what you'll find. Woods are rarely pristine - always some obstacle. Every year I improve And get better. And a Saturday can have conditions that are totally different than on Sunday.  You're constantly changing your stance and skills to match the conditions dujour. Since my West experience is limited - it's tough to judge - but I suspect I wouldn't find it as exciting 50+ days a year.


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## Edd (Feb 2, 2017)

SkiFanE said:


> Since my West experience is limited - it's tough to judge - but I suspect I wouldn't find it as exciting 50+ days a year.



Hmmm. It seems to me that the west has everything the east does, plus a crap ton of additional types of terrain. I love east coast skiing, but placing it above the west is an extremely difficult, if subjective, argument to make.


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## witch hobble (Feb 2, 2017)

I think the snow corns up a little better in the east during spring skiing.


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## Edd (Feb 2, 2017)

witch hobble said:


> I think the snow corns up a little better in the east during spring skiing.



High praise (not really).


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## witch hobble (Feb 2, 2017)

It's what I got.


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## Smellytele (Feb 2, 2017)

Edd said:


> Hmmm. It seems to me that the west has everything the east does, plus a crap ton of additional types of terrain. I love east coast skiing, but placing it above the west is an extremely difficult, if subjective, argument to make.


Ya not sure why she would be bored. Plenty of bumps and it isn't always powder. I love having to ski around obstacles (rock/roots and such) as well and I have had to before in the west as well.


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## dlague (Feb 2, 2017)

Edd said:


> Hmmm. It seems to me that the west has everything the east does, plus a crap ton of additional types of terrain. I love east coast skiing, but placing it above the west is an extremely difficult, if subjective, argument to make.


Funny thing is before skiing Banff and Colorado, my views were pretty jaded and I felt New England had plenty to offer.  I also dug in the whole eastern skiers have better skills POV because we skied harsh conditions at times.  However, when skiing a place that is 3000+ acres it is tough to get bored too fast.  And when you are on the lift and everything is quiet because skis are not scraping it seems so unreal until you make your run and the edges dig in and turns feel so graceful even though I am not.  Getting to the top of a summit and looking across and seeing so much terrain and feeling like a kid in a candy store just feels awesome.  I could go on and on.

We have skied Breck 3 times and each time we focused on a Peak which are all different and they all ski like different resorts.  Yet we have not skied everything there.  We have been out 16 days and were are just as excited as the first day.  There are bump runs that have crazy long lines and tree runs that are 1000-1500 vertical feet and I am not talking trees that are 12 ft apart.  There are steeps that are exilleratiing and fast.  Groomers that just let you float and fly and you feel so free (as long as the yellow jackets are not out).  As I mentioned before, the snow is so consistent as well as the temps that we have never been concerned about trail conditions or how bumps or trees will ski.

I am sold on the life and skiing out here.  I will never forget what New England is like but I also will probably not ski much back east as well - when I do I will probably have gotten soft and the conditions with freak me out who knows.



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## deadheadskier (Feb 2, 2017)

No question West is better. I'd swap our mountain ranges and weather for the Rockies in a heartbeat.

That said, if for some reason I never skied out west again, I'd be fully content.  The skiing is plenty good enough in the East for me.  Even a horrible winter like last year, there was still some great skiing up in Quebec.

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## JimG. (Feb 2, 2017)

West is better but I am Eastern to the core.


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## SkiFanE (Feb 2, 2017)

Edd said:


> Hmmm. It seems to me that the west has everything the east does, plus a crap ton of additional types of terrain. I love east coast skiing, but placing it above the west is an extremely difficult, if subjective, argument to make.


Since I've never really been west - I can't comment on terrain. I'm totally speculating. I love skiing here - would I love it more in the west - can't say. But since I love variety - seems to be more on East. Why doesn't someone bring me West with them so I can know for sure   $ is why I can't, not because I can't. Our ski budget is taken up at our home mountain.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 2, 2017)

Way more variety out west. Not sure what would give you the impression otherwise

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## crank (Feb 2, 2017)

Yes way more variety and overall better conditions.  I am a fair weather skier.  I don't ski when it's raining or when it is "firm".  Last year I got in 27 days and they were all in the western US.

This year is going to be more balanced.

I can't think of any reason a skier would travel east to ski unless it was to ski with friends or family.  Maybe to attend a race school like Burke.  For snow and terrain - never.  There are plenty of steep and narrow trails out west if that's you bag.  Plenty of tight trees if that's your thing. I find that western trees stay untracked a little longer then the eastern variety - especially the tighter ones.  Them cowboys are used to wide open spaces doncha know.


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## SkiFanE (Feb 2, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> Way more variety out west. Not sure what would give you the impression otherwise
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app



For variety I was thinking not only terrain but weather and seasons and such. I usually ski 6-7 months (8 months 2 years ago). Usually start on WROD in October and finish with slush in Apr. never know what you are going to get day to day. I love that (I never found out baby genders before birth with all 3 - I like surprises). Remember - with no personal experience it seems like every day conditions are just packed powder.  But this isn't a post I should ramble in much more without the knowledge (not that stops me often lmao). 

Im also afraid skiing out west is like flying 1st class...so hard to go back to coach after that. Best I don't know what I'm missing - but I can't imagine loving skiing any more than I do now.


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## snoseek (Feb 2, 2017)

I've got a total of 11 winters out west plus some trips and many years  (born and raised) back east as well. On any given day I can ski pretty much anything in and around a mountain like Kirkwood, Alta or Abasin without hesitating all that much. I can't say that on some of the techy stuff back here...I'm not taking the trails but the sideshow adventures. The east breeds resilent all mountain skiers no doubt...coming back here for a winter will sharpen my skills. I guess if a eastern skier went west for the first time and got on some high angle stuff for the first time it might intimidate them but its a lot easier to master that terrain that tight rocky icy trees IMO.


Overall the western experience is better and more consistent that's obvious but eastern skiers are tough as nails


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## deadheadskier (Feb 2, 2017)

SkiFanE said:


> For variety I was thinking not only terrain but weather and seasons and such. I usually ski 6-7 months (8 months 2 years ago). Usually start on WROD in October and finish with slush in Apr. never know what you are going to get day to day. I love that (I never found out baby genders before birth with all 3 - I like surprises). Remember - with no personal experience it seems like every day conditions are just packed powder.  But this isn't a post I should ramble in much more without the knowledge (not that stops me often lmao).
> 
> Im also afraid skiing out west is like flying 1st class...so hard to go back to coach after that. Best I don't know what I'm missing - but I can't imagine loving skiing any more than I do now.


I like surprises too. We kept our son a surprise until birth and will do the same if/when we have a second child.

I guess I don't get bored with months of consistent packed powder. I mean that was the case two seasons ago from late January until early April. I thought that was a fantastic year and never found myself getting bored with the great conditions. 

You can get icy conditions out west. Maybe not the boilerplate we get here, but I've skied plenty of ice in Colorado, crud, windblown and corn.  It's not always straight out of a Warren Miller movie. 

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## Brad J (Feb 2, 2017)

jimk said:


> No sympathy for anyone pissing and moaning about New England skiing.  It's the frigging bomb compared to mid-Atlantic skiing.
> 
> I am a sloppy, non-technical skier and not good for astute observations on style, but one difference between East and West I've noticed is Eastern skiers are very turny, great in tight spaces and know how to deal with firm/icy surfaces and crap conditions.  Out west the great skiers don't turn much, they do 5 GS turns down 750" vertical of steeps.  They gobble up terrain in big swoops and don't sweat the small
> 
> ...



I totally agree, we make a lot of turns here for speed control on mostly firm surfaces, if western skiers took the same approach here their life expectancy would be dramatically shorter.


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## snoseek (Feb 2, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> I like surprises too. We kept our son a surprise until birth and will do the same if/when we have a second child.
> 
> I guess I don't get bored with months of consistent packed powder. I mean that was the case two seasons ago from late January until early April. I thought that was a fantastic year and never found myself getting bored with the great conditions.
> 
> ...



I've skied some of my very iciest turns in Tahoe. Its not the norm but sometimes things can be awful there too...and when that happens the only ones getting after it are the tourist from back east or the transplants.

Also when things don't happen, like say 14-15 in California or 09-10 in Colorado a lot of the resorts don't have the ability to compensate for that. WROD on xmas week or even MLK...it happens-I've experienced it


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## SkiFanE (Feb 2, 2017)

Brad J said:


> I totally agree, we make a lot of turns here for speed control on mostly firm surfaces, if western skiers took the same approach here their life expectancy would be dramatically shorter.


. I have a one ski quiver (never use my midfats anymore it seems) - 155 SLs - I can turn on a dime and get through about 170cm spaces lol. Keeping in control takes tons of energy. If it's a cruiser day - with no bumps I don't even feel warmed up by end of day. So boring.  I do hate ice and have a fear of losing control and going to fast on it. But there's the rare icy day when I can't find a tight line of bumps along the edge. I have an instinct that measures the steepness and width of snow when next to edge, that keeps me safe. If my instincts tell me - I won't go - I think 47 years of East skiing will give you that lol.   (47 years and not one injury  knock knock).


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## SkiFanE (Feb 2, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> I like surprises too. We kept our son a surprise until birth and will do the same if/when we have a second child.
> 
> I guess I don't get bored with months of consistent packed powder. I mean that was the case two seasons ago from late January until early April. I thought that was a fantastic year and never found myself getting bored with the great conditions.
> 
> ...



Isnt that the most amazing surprise ever?!  I swear the 9 months was worth waiting - wouldn't have been as exciting knowing. Always had a boys name ready but never a girls name. We would spend Labor Day figuring out girls name, just in case. Lol.  After 2 girls I thought for sure #3 was a girl, but surprise, a boy.  Thank goodness - because we couldn't think of another girls name we liked.


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## Smellytele (Feb 2, 2017)

SkiFanE said:


> For variety I was thinking not only terrain but weather and seasons and such. I usually ski 6-7 months (8 months 2 years ago). Usually start on WROD in October and finish with slush in Apr. never know what you are going to get day to day. I love that (I never found out baby genders before birth with all 3 - I like surprises). Remember - with no personal experience it seems like every day conditions are just packed powder.  But this isn't a post I should ramble in much more without the knowledge (not that stops me often lmao).
> 
> Im also afraid skiing out west is like flying 1st class...so hard to go back to coach after that. Best I don't know what I'm missing - but I can't imagine loving skiing any more than I do now.




A-basin and loveland open early and close late with the sketchy conditions you like.


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## witch hobble (Feb 2, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> A-basin and loveland open early and close late with the sketchy conditions you like.


Those are really "East coast of Colorado" resorts.


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## Smellytele (Feb 2, 2017)

witch hobble said:


> Those are really "East coast of Colorado" resorts.



Hmm? they are some of my favorite in CO.


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## snoseek (Feb 2, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> Hmm? they are some of my favorite in CO.



Same here. More snow-less people.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 2, 2017)

SkiFanE said:


> Isnt that the most amazing surprise ever?!  I swear the 9 months was worth waiting - wouldn't have been as exciting knowing. Always had a boys name ready but never a girls name. We would spend Labor Day figuring out girls name, just in case. Lol.  After 2 girls I thought for sure #3 was a girl, but surprise, a boy.  Thank goodness - because we couldn't think of another girls name we liked.


Absolutely the best. It amazes me the vast majority of people find out the gender before birth.  For what? Nursery room paint colors and clothes the baby wears for three months? 

I wouldn't have had it any other way

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## dlague (Feb 2, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> A-basin and loveland open early and close late with the sketchy conditions you like.


I would not be so sure about that we skied Loveland and A Basin in early season and during late spring and we had one firm day at Loveland and that was better than mid season last year.  A Basin and Loveland were awesome this past spring.

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## Jully (Feb 2, 2017)

witch hobble said:


> Those are really "East coast of Colorado" resorts.



Care to explain what you mean by that?


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## dlague (Feb 2, 2017)

Jully said:


> Care to explain what you mean by that?


At Loveland take Chair 1 and combine it with Chair 8 you got all that Eastern resorts offer - ok throw in Chair 2 for some beginner terrain. At A Basin take Black Mountain Express and Pali lift and once again you have the same.  

Those lifts at both offer really good bumps on  some really good steeps,  trees that rival most anything back east, drops that you can really get excited about and cruisers that a whole lot of fun.  Difference - no ice.

All the other stuff is extra - stuff that does not exist back east.

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## SkiFanE (Feb 2, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> A-basin and loveland open early and close late with the sketchy conditions you like.


.  I will keep that in mind if I'm so fortunate.


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## witch hobble (Feb 2, 2017)

Jully said:


> Care to explain what you mean by that?


Don't overthink this, but if you think of Colorado as our country, with Denver/Kansas as the Atlantic Ocean, and Utah/desert as the pacific, with the Continental Divide playing the role of the mighty Mississippi, that makes those Easternmost ski areas (Loveland, Abasin, Eldora) East coast of Colorado.

Those also are not big destination resorts, they are daytripper places, similar to most of our ski areas around here.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 3, 2017)

dlague said:


> That is the lamest statement i have ever heard..........*.Personally I am not a fan of tight trees *



I believe you.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 3, 2017)

@dlague the East Coast doesn't miss you either! 

What's the matter you couldn't get over your son leaving the nest and had to follow him to CO? 

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## Smellytele (Feb 3, 2017)

MadMadWorld said:


> @dlague the East Coast doesn't miss you either!
> 
> What's the matter you couldn't get over your son leaving the nest and had to follow him to CO?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using AlpineZone mobile app



Obviously he can't find a CO forum that will embrace him so he has to keep telling us how great it is in CO.


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## jimk (Feb 3, 2017)

MadMadWorld said:


> @dlague the East Coast doesn't miss you either!
> 
> What's the matter you couldn't get over your son leaving the nest and had to follow him to CO?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using AlpineZone mobile app



LOL.  I've become a boomerang parent to my son in SLC, at least during ski season.  IT'S ALL GOOD.


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## Jully (Feb 3, 2017)

witch hobble said:


> Don't overthink this, but if you think of Colorado as our country, with Denver/Kansas as the Atlantic Ocean, and Utah/desert as the pacific, with the Continental Divide playing the role of the mighty Mississippi, that makes those Easternmost ski areas (Loveland, Abasin, Eldora) East coast of Colorado.
> 
> Those also are not big destination resorts, they are daytripper places, similar to most of our ski areas around here.



Ahhh, got it. Makes sense.


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## dlague (Feb 3, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> I believe you.


Good thing the world does not live according to your definitions.  Chest pounders like to talk about how hard they ski and the most difficult trails are the only true skiing!  That's OK it is your world but we do not need to live in it!

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## dlague (Feb 3, 2017)

MadMadWorld said:


> @dlague the East Coast doesn't miss you either!
> 
> What's the matter you couldn't get over your son leaving the nest and had to follow him to CO?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using AlpineZone mobile app


And yes it is convenient to have another son nearby.  But I do not need to justify to you what our family is like.  You will see that yourself someday and I hope that someone else does not through it in your face as an insult.

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## dlague (Feb 3, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> Obviously he can't find a CO forum that will embrace him so he has to keep telling us how great it is in CO.


Hey to each their own.  Skiing in CO is great!

Personally, I felt that this forum is more engaging than the others.  I participate in Epicski and TGR and it is more familiar here.



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## wtcobb (Feb 3, 2017)

dlague said:


> Good thing the world does not live according to your definitions.  Chest pounders like to talk about how hard they ski and the most difficult trails are the only true skiing!  That's OK it is your world but we do not need to live in it!



I'm the best damn skier on this mountain!


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 3, 2017)

dlague said:


> Good thing the world does not live according to your definitions.  Chest pounders like to talk about how hard they ski and the most difficult trails are the only true skiing!  That's OK it is your world but we do not need to live in it!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app


Hi Pot,

Has anyone ever told you that you look black?

Sincerely,

Kettle 

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## dlague (Feb 3, 2017)

MadMadWorld said:


> Hi Pot,
> 
> Has anyone ever told you that you look black?
> 
> ...


I know there are many great skiers here and I will not pretend that I can even go toe to toe.  In that regard, no pot kettle situation.  There some that are really good yet humble and others are really good and think their shit does not stink.

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## xwhaler (Feb 3, 2017)

dlague said:


> Hey to each their own.  Skiing in CO is great!
> 
> Personally, I felt that this forum is more engaging than the others.  I participate in Epicski and TGR and it is more familiar here.
> 
> ...


Well said Dave. I always enjoy your reports and photos.   Keep it up.

The other fellas on here are just getting amped up as we need some snow!

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## Tin (Feb 3, 2017)

dlague said:


> Good thing the world does not live according to your definitions.  Chest pounders like to talk about how hard they ski and the most difficult trails are the only true skiing!  That's OK it is your world but we do not need to live in it!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app




If there are not cliffs, ledges, or moguls it is just cross-country.


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## dlague (Feb 4, 2017)

Tin said:


> If there are not cliffs, ledges, or moguls it is just cross-country.


Ok then now that I know the criteria I will refocus!  

BTW how do you ski cliffs in tight trees?  I have come across two drops - one is about a 20 ft cliff at Loveland and there is no f'n way that is happening because there are trees all over and the other at Cooper and no one is launching off that either.

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## Tin (Feb 4, 2017)

dlague said:


> Ok then now that I know the criteria I will refocus!
> 
> BTW how do you ski cliffs in tight trees?  I have come across two drops - one is about a 20 ft cliff at Loveland and there is no f'n way that is happening because there are trees all over and the other at Cooper and no one is launching off that either.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app




Cliffs in tight trees? Come to Mad River or Stowe and I will teach you. Sometimes you just go and figure it out while in the air lol


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## Smellytele (Feb 4, 2017)

Tin said:


> Cliffs in tight trees? Come to Mad River or Stowe and I will teach you. Sometimes you just go and figure it out while in the air lol



Found a small one 10-15 foot at Bolton today in the preacher/cobrass woods. Didn't go as planned. 13 yo son had no issue but my plan was to hit then turn. i hit and skis just skidded out on the turn, I went down and i slid a few feet in between trees but was no worse for the wear but my pride.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2017)

dlague said:


> *Good thing the world does not live according to your definitions.  Chest pounders like to talk about how hard they ski and the most difficult trails are the only true skiing!  That's OK it is your world* but we do not need to live in it!



Funny thing is, I said nothing of the sort.   I believe psychologists call your above post, "projecting".   

Here....please allow me to repost precisely what I said.



BenedictGomez said:


> *The only part of eastern skiing that's generally better than western skiing is the tree skiing **(assuming you actually like "tree skiing" as opposed to skiing between widely spaced gaps between trees*, which some people erroneously call "tree skiing").



I dont call this "chest pounding".    I call it a generally well-accepted, accurate statement.  

I listen to west coast skiers talk about what they perceive as "tree skiing", and since it's Super Bowl Sunday, I'll say that the tales generally consist of skiing around tree stands that would net you a First Down in American football.  The term "tree skiing" means a totally different thing to a native western skier versus a native eastern skier.  But I get it, you REALLY like skiing out west and everything.  It's cool.  Everyone does.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 5, 2017)

^


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## raisingarizona (Feb 5, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> The only part of eastern skiing that's generally better than western skiing is the tree skiing (assuming you actually like "tree skiing" as opposed to skiing between widely spaced gaps between trees, which some people erroneously call "tree skiing").



We have plenty of tight trees out est too but once you get used to hitting the throttle more the super tight trees aren't really as much fun. I've seen a lot of vids from east coast skiers that like to big about how their trees are better but it often looks slow and awkward. I'm all for it if that's what you are into but don't kid yourself, the west is a big place and there is every kind of skiing you can imagine. 

this is much tighter and steeper than the video suggests.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 5, 2017)

raisingarizona said:


> We have plenty of tight trees out est too but once you get used to hitting the throttle more the super tight trees aren't really as much fun. I've seen a lot of vids from east coast skiers that like to big about how their trees are better but it often looks slow and awkward. I'm all for it if that's what you are into but don't kid yourself, the west is a big place and there is every kind of skiing you can imagine.
> 
> this is much tighter and steeper than the video suggests.


Everything looks better with never ending face shots [emoji2] 

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## Not Sure (Feb 5, 2017)

East Coast trees won't kill you! Just a guess but I would say there haven't been any tree well deaths East of the Mississippi.
I did have a really cool tree run at Lake Louise up top , I actually found some small deciduous trees up high . Moguls mixed in and ever tightening as we got lower.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 5, 2017)

As a Wildcat skier which in my experience has some of the tightest trees in the East, I feel pretty confident saying that you can find plenty of tight trees out west.  A couple of areas that come to mind are in and around the alleys at Abasin and some of the stuff off the backside of peak 9 at Breckenridge accessed by the E chair.  Yes, there are plenty of wide open glades out west, but to suggest the east is better for tight trees just isn't true.  

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## raisingarizona (Feb 5, 2017)

I still don't get the idea that tighter trees = best trees. I mean, if they are too tight the skiing sort of sucks imo. I dig flow not awkward trees with lots of close out lines that force you to do short traverses or flow killing weird turns. Again, I fully support what ever you are into but what our personal preference is doesn't mean it's the "best" or for everyone.


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## gmcunni (Feb 5, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> but to suggest the east is better for tight trees just isn't true.



alternative facts


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## raisingarizona (Feb 5, 2017)

gmcunni said:


> alternative facts



So hot these days.


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## jimk (Feb 5, 2017)

I guess I get the discussion here trying to distinguish "tree skiing" from more open off-piste terrain with a sprinkling of trees.  I'm not a great tree skier and therefore I prefer open glade type areas than real dense trees and bushes.  I think if I had run gates as a kid it might have helped me in that regard.
Here is example of tree runs I experienced recently at Snowbird, they are nicely spaced glades next to designated runs like Mach Schnell and there is room to turn and bail out as necessary by hackers like me.  Sort of like narrow trails that don't get groomed, maybe similar to stuff at MRG like Paradise or terrain left and right of midway down Chute.


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## jimk (Feb 5, 2017)

As opposed to tighter trees, such as I recently skied at Park City off Pine Cone Ridge:




I went through Aspens? above, wished I'd found this opening instead, which I only spotted as I was leaving this section:




FYI, above pic shows connector gondola between old Park City and old Canyons resorts.

More open glades at MRG run near midway down Chute:





Tighter MRG trees lower on the mtn somewhere:


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## NYDB (Feb 5, 2017)

Tin said:


> Cliffs in tight trees? Come to Mad River or Stowe and I will teach you. Sometimes you just go and figure it out while in the air lol


Omg ....this guy is the biggest asshat on here.  Don't.be. so. serious. son. 

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## Smellytele (Feb 6, 2017)

jimk said:


> As opposed to tighter trees, such as I recently skied at Park City off Pine Cone Ridge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would say none of those are tight trees. First few on your first  post a runs with trees around them.


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2017)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> East Coast trees won't kill you! Just a guess but I would say there haven't been any tree well deaths East of the Mississippi.



My wife helped dug out a dead guy out a tree well at Mont-Tremblant 15 years ago.   It is rare, but it does happen.


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## Not Sure (Feb 6, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> My wife helped dug out a dead guy out a tree well at Mont-Tremblant 15 years ago.   It is rare, but it does happen.



Dang !wouldn't have thought that was even possible, must have been an incredible snow year. I could see an undermined steam bed collapse ,happened to me at Kmart in the 80's.


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2017)

Scary thing.  He fell and just sled off an intermediate traverse trail.  He went down head first about 4-5 feet deep.  Skis and boots still at the surface.   He was a big fat guy skiing with a friend.  The friend could not pull him out (obviously he did not have a shovel).  Took several minutes before they could gather enough manpower to pull him out (not an easy task on soft snow).  He had no pulse when they took him out.   

If I showed you the spot, you would not believe it is possible to die there.  I think this was a one in a million thing.  I've seen huge tree wells in the Chic Chocs, but this is more like out west over there.


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## Scruffy (Feb 6, 2017)

Ah, yes, the old East vs West argument, yet, again, and complete with obligatory ad hominem remarks - nice.

If you're sliding on white stuff, skiing is good no matter where you are. We adjust our tactics and sometimes our equipment. Be proud of your local skiing. I personally am real happy not many people from a more western state want so come east to ski; we already have way too many people skiing the limited terrain here-let them stay there; we can visit their mountains- it's a nice arrangement.

I just got back from 6 days of skiing Chamonix. They're having the worst snow drought in 35 years, but it was still awesome skiing. Got steep powder runs that you would need a good day out West USA to duplicate. It's all relative.


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 6, 2017)

To continue derailing this thread...

IMO, what I enjoy most about eastern tree skiing is the fact that the terrain itself hasn't been smoothed out and altered by heavy equipment.  You really get to enjoy the dips, rolls, drops, etc in a way that you can't do on some of the wide-open boulevards.  


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## ironhippy (Feb 6, 2017)

I only like tight tree skiing because there is a better chance of untracked snow in the tight stuff.

i'd prefer more wide open glades, but the goal is usually the least amount of tracks.


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2017)

ironhippy said:


> I only like tight tree skiing because there is a better chance of untracked snow in the tight stuff.
> 
> i'd prefer more wide open glades, but the goal is usually the least amount of tracks.



Agreed.  Least amount of tracks and least amount of ice.   When I have first shot at fresh powder (typically after skinning up early), I never ever pick tight trees.  First choice is always open glade.   When I'm on chair 25 on a pow day, I'll head for a tight glade which I know will be untracked.


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## Jully (Feb 6, 2017)

ironhippy said:


> I only like tight tree skiing because there is a better chance of untracked snow in the tight stuff.
> 
> i'd prefer more wide open glades, but the goal is usually the least amount of tracks.



Where tight trees really shine for me is a few days after a storm. Soft, quiet, uncrowded, and isolated are some of my favorite 'tight' glade runs. Its nice to escape the crowds on trail, especially if you're at a larger resort.


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2017)

Scruffy said:


> Ah, yes, the old East vs West argument, yet, again, and complete with obligatory ad hominem remarks - nice.
> 
> If you're sliding on white stuff, skiing is good no matter where you are.



Obviously, I'd rather ski a small eastern hill on a good pow day than a monster western mountain on a bad refreeze day, but all conditions being equal, anyone who says he'd pick an eastern resort over a major western one is either ignorant, lying or trolling.  I've skied the east all of my life, and I've been lucky enough to have regularly skied out west and in the Alps, and I cannot think of a single positive skiing feature out east that is not better out west (even tight trees).   

The only reason we ski the east is that's it's close to home.  If I had a Whistler/Blackcomb or a Big Sky equivalent within 90 minutes by car from home, I would NEVER EVER ski Jay Peak again, even though I love the place.


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## Domeskier (Feb 6, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> Obviously, I'd rather ski a small eastern hill on a good pow day than a monster western mountain on a bad refreeze day, but all conditions being equal, anyone who says he'd pick an eastern resort over a major western one is either ignorant, lying or trolling.



Give me 300 meters of seeded bumps with convenient lift access and I couldn't care less about how much vert or acreage a resort has.  I'm sure a lot of park rats feel the same way about their rails and half-pipes and crap.  I don't dispute the claim that Western resorts are better.  It's just that the type of skiing I like to do simply doesn't require those advantages.  With the exception of less boilerplate in the troughs, but your thought experiment posits all conditions being equal.


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2017)

Domeskier said:


> Give me 300 meters of seeded bumps with convenient lift access and I couldn't care less about how much vert or acreage a resort has.  I'm sure a lot of park rats feel the same way about their rails and half-pipes and crap.  I don't dispute the claim that Western resorts are better.  It's just that the type of skiing I like to do simply doesn't require those advantages.  With the exception of less boilerplate in the troughs, but your thought experiment posits all conditions being equal.



Out east, bumps are icy roughly half the time.  Same thing for landing in parks. I'll grant you that if you are a park rat or hardcore bump skier, differences are less important.  

The big vertical is irrelevant since you often only ski the upper lifts in the western resorts.  The sheer variety of terrain (open bowls, chutes, steeps, glades of all sort) , the snow quality and absence of ice is where the big western resorts shine the most compared to the east.


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## Scruffy (Feb 6, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> ... anyone who says he'd pick an eastern resort *over* a major western one is either ignorant, lying or trolling.



Who said that?


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2017)

Some pretty much implied it.


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## Scruffy (Feb 6, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> Some pretty much implied it.



By whom?


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## Domeskier (Feb 6, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> Out east, bumps are icy roughly half the time.  Same thing for landing in parks. I'll grant you that if you are a park rat or hardcore bump skier, differences are less important.
> 
> The big vertical is irrelevant since you often only ski the upper lifts in the western resorts.  The sheer variety of terrain (open bowls, chutes, steeps, glades of all sort) , the snow quality and absence of ice is where the big western resorts shine the most compared to the east.



Better snow and better natural bumps out west, definitely.  All things being equal, however, I'm indifferent to east or west.  East gets a slight advantage because of altitude.  Maybe if I were fitter and could ski and endless bumped up bowl without taking a five minute thigh and oxygen break every 20 bumps...


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## jimk (Feb 6, 2017)

Domeskier said:


> Better snow and better natural bumps out west, definitely.  All things being equal, however, I'm indifferent to east or west.  East gets a slight advantage because of altitude.  Maybe if I were fitter and could ski and endless bumped up bowl without taking a five minute thigh and oxygen break every 20 bumps...



Agree about altitude, definite disadvantage for short term vacationers, esp wheezing geezers.  Two years ago I stayed out West two months straight.  It was very cool to finally aclimatize and I felt much stronger the second month on long bump runs and moderate climbs to hike-to terrain.

Another thing:  While the majority of my lifetime ski days (1000?) are in the mid-Atlantic and I have a lot in New England too, recently I have been able to get out West more than ever, about 65-70 ski days out west over the last three years.  I've been babbling those whole three years about how hard it is for me to dress at the appropriate level of lightness out there.  I skied Utah Jan 22-28, 2017.  The day time highs on the slopes never went above mid to upper teens the whole week, some days highs were in single digits with high winds at summit.  I wore two layers under my ski jacket the whole week.  Earlier in January in WV I skied on a day with single digits and high winds and wore FIVE frickin' layers under same ski jacket.  I can't explain it...humidity or lack thereof??  Skiing challenging terrain out there vs. groomers back in mid-A??  Headcase??  Whatever, I always feel warmer out there.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 6, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> I would say none of those are tight trees. First few on your first  post a runs with trees around them.



This is basically what I was saying in that skiing "trees" means different things to different people, so there's a lot of ambiguity when this subject pops up.  



Scruffy said:


> By whom?



By who.  Test your pronoun.


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## Jully (Feb 6, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> By who.  Test *you're* pronoun.



Just helping


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## Domeskier (Feb 6, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> By who.  Test your pronoun.



The use of the objective case by him is correct here, actually.


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## Scruffy (Feb 6, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> By who.  Test your pronoun.



No, "by" is a preposition here and so, in this context takes the objective case. So whom is correct.


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## JimG. (Feb 6, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> Some pretty much implied it.



To clarify, I said West is definitely better but that I'm Eastern to the core. I prefer eastern skiing for reasons other than just snow conditions:

1) I don't enjoy flying. Actually, the only part of flying I like is the up in the air part. The rest including airports, security, fees, the crowds of people, rude airline employees, and other passengers I can't stand. By the time I arrive at my destination I need a vacation to recover from the flight. 
2) The only time the whole family can go out west is during holiday periods. I don't ski with the holiday masses. See "I don't enjoy flying" above.
3) If you think there are a lot of gapers in the east, take a trip out west. Holy crap!
4) I prefer the Northeastern vibe. It's what I'm used to. Not a fan of many of the people from other states I'm not used to dealing with. I won't name states. Hey, I'm old and it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
5) Many western resorts are huge. For every old school place like A Basin there are 10 mega resorts with mega high ticket prices and mega expensive accomodations. As I age I'm returning to the old school places I grew up skiing at and rediscovering my love for the sport. There are more of those old school places in the East, at least that is my perception. One of the reasons I've become so interested in Quebec...tons of old school places to ski. Don't get me wrong; I ski at mega resorts too and love premium accomodations and I don't mind paying for it. Just don't need all the other expenses like flying.

You are correct that anyone who would pick eastern snow conditions over western conditions must be a troll. But that isn't the only factor I consider when I say I am eastern to the core. East is home for me and there is no place like home.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 6, 2017)

Domeskier said:


> The use of the objective case by him is correct here, actually.



I looked again after reading your above, and I still disagree.  You would never say, _"him pretty much implied it"_, so whom is incorrect, IMO.

Either way, the point was to make a Murder By Death reference, which is one of my favorite movies.


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## Not Sure (Feb 6, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> I looked again after reading your above, and I still disagree.  You would never say, _"him pretty much implied it"_, so whom is incorrect, IMO.
> 
> Either way, the point was to make a Murder By Death reference, which is one of my favorite movies.



RIP Peter sellers! One of my favorite actors


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## Domeskier (Feb 6, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> I looked again after reading your above, and I still disagree.  You would never say, _"him pretty much implied it"_, so whom is incorrect, IMO.
> 
> Either way, the point was to make a Murder By Death reference, which is one of my favorite movies.



I see. "Who?" would have been the grammatically appropriate response based on the quote to which he was responding. I took him to be asking "by whom was it implied?" and not "who implied it?"   Never saw the movie. If there are dorky grammar jokes in it, it sounds like it fun.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 6, 2017)

Domeskier said:


> I see. "Who?" would have been the grammatically appropriate response based on the quote to which he was responding. *I took him to be asking "by whom was it implied?*" and not "who implied it?"  * Never saw the movie. If there are dorky grammar jokes in it, it sounds like it fun*.



Gotcha, yeah that would be correct.


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## Domeskier (Feb 7, 2017)

BenedictGomez said:


> Gotcha, yeah that would be correct.



Truman Capote was in it?  Awesome!


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## mikec142 (Feb 7, 2017)

Apples and Oranges.  There is room for both.  I live in NJ and if I only skied out west I would ski at best 4-7 days/year and that's not acceptable to me.

I love a great ski day at Sugarbush followed by Apres Ski with a pint of Sip of Sunshine.

I also loved every minute of my recent trip to Jackson Hole where the vistas and views were second to none and it took 25 minutes to ski top to bottom and the snow was perfect.

I wouldn't give either experience up.


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## 4aprice (Feb 7, 2017)

I didn't read the whole thread but this is nutty.  I will tell you, If you can, get out west *this* year.  It is absolutely off the hook.  The walls of snow on Berthoud Pass are 10-20 feet high.  The moguls, the trees, the bowls are all in play and in phenomenal shape.  And they're about to get hit with more.   It's special out there this year.

East - West argument = different strokes for different folks.  For my wife and I, we prefer the west and are trying to plan our retirement in that direction.  I mean it was in the mid 60's in Denver yesterday with people out exercising and playing golf etc., meanwhile 50 miles west the snow is deep and getting deeper, you can't beat that (IMO).

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## dlague (Feb 7, 2017)

4aprice said:


> I didn't read the whole thread but this is nutty.  I will tell you, If you can, get out west *this* year.  It is absolutely off the hook.  The walls of snow on Berthoud Pass are 10-20 feet high.  The moguls, the trees, the bowls are all in play and in phenomenal shape.  And they're about to get hit with more.   It's special out there this year.
> 
> East - West argument = different strokes for different folks.  For my wife and I, we prefer the west and are trying to plan our retirement in that direction.  I mean it was in the mid 60's in Denver yesterday with people out exercising and playing golf etc., meanwhile 50 miles west the snow is deep and getting deeper, you can't beat that (IMO).
> 
> ...


I think this is where my perspective lies right now.  Moved here in April skied to mid June with perfect conditions.  The we started our season in October and while November was lean December and January have delivered big time.

We were at Keystone and for the first time we experienced firm conditions but still great by New England standards.  It has been sunny a lot and it is softening the snow during the day - sun is super srrong here.  We skied a few bump runs and they have some killer bump runs that destroy your legs mostly because they are super long.











I do have to admit the density of ski areas in New England is something I miss.  Lots of choices.  50+ ski areas between ME, NH, VT and throw in NY and PQ.  Compared to Colorado where there are like 27 for the whole state and many spread far apart.

And yes we are getting another round of snow over a 3-4 day period.  These darn snow events keep happening during the week.

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## 4aprice (Feb 7, 2017)

^ Dave, Want moguls?, you got to get over to the Jane one of these days.  Murder on the legs, but as I told my wife I could have an affair with that place.  Trying to figure out a 3rd trip in April.  I'm hooked.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Feb 7, 2017)

Speaking of Keystone, the Outback glades in early April is one of my favorite places. 

Anyone know how're the southern Rockies (Taos) doing this season?


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## 4aprice (Feb 7, 2017)

jimk said:


> LOL.  I've become a boomerang parent to my son in SLC, at least during ski season.  IT'S ALL GOOD.



Ditto

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## 4aprice (Feb 7, 2017)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Speaking of Keystone, the Outback glades in early April is one of my favorite places.
> 
> Anyone know how're the southern Rockies (Taos) doing this season?



I think they are ok.  Next year might be their year as I've heard rumors of a weak Nino.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## dlague (Feb 7, 2017)

4aprice said:


> ^ Dave, Want moguls?, you got to get over to the Jane one of these days.  Murder on the legs, but as I told my wife I could have an affair with that place.  Trying to figure out a 3rd trip in April.  I'm hooked.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Ya we went in the bar at Keystone and were talking about MJ.  I know people often put down Keystone but the runs there are long. and the two runs down the middle in the picture feel steep and have serious bumps.  We only did one run there and I was thrashed.  We did another run on Mineshaft later.  The bumps had good rhythm and were large in steeper sections and and more shallow in the sections there were not as steep.  Just looking around I was noticing more bump runs that were widely distributed across Keystone.


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## MadMadWorld (Feb 8, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Omg ....this guy is the biggest asshat on here.  Don't.be. so. serious. son.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using AlpineZone mobile app


Finally someone who speaks the truth!

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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 8, 2017)

fbrissette said:


> The big vertical is irrelevant since you often only ski the upper lifts in the western resorts.  The sheer variety of terrain (open bowls, chutes, steeps, glades of all sort) , the snow quality and absence of ice is where the big western resorts shine the most compared to the east.



bullshit. ski the 3000+ vertical feet from the top of rendezvous to the bottom of the hobacks and all of the varied terrain between and then tell me the vert doesnt matter and you only ski the upper lifts.


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## dlague (Feb 9, 2017)

KustyTheKlown said:


> bullshit. ski the 3000+ vertical feet from the top of rendezvous to the bottom of the hobacks and all of the varied terrain between and then tell me the vert doesnt matter and you only ski the upper lifts.


Not that I have experience at Jackson Hole but I agree.  There are big runs that really get your legs burning and heart rate up for sure.  

Choosing to ski upper lifts is a choice and should not lead to a broad assumption.  Using back east examples you can ski SB  and  lap Heavens Gate or combine lifts and do top to bottom.  Lapping Cannon's tram is very fun too.   I often prefer top to bottom runs that are long and feature varied terrain.  We all seek different thrills.  But vertical does make a difference.

But that being said Snowbird, Snowmass and Whistler come to mind or even places like Vail and Breck for that matter.  They all have killer top to bottom runs and have fast lifts which makes it that much better.

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