# SuperPasses 20/21



## Zermatt (Feb 27, 2020)

Ikon Passes are up for next season.

Full pass price is up, but renewal price is down from last year.  Renewal was $930 last year I believe, now $900.

Unlimited at Sugarbush for full pass.

Base pass drops JH and Aspen (they are add ons for $150)

Base pass is unlimited at Stratton with blackout dates (not sure if that is a change).


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## Zand (Feb 27, 2020)

Guess I need to decide now whether I'm going to Jackson or not next year. And if I do, might as well get the full pass as it would only be $100 more and I can avoid blackout dates.

Surprised Alta/Bird aren't on the add-on program. They've been crying louder than the Jackson people.


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## jaytrem (Feb 27, 2020)

Interesting that a full IKON 1 adult + 2 child costs $70 less than an IKON Base Plus (unless you can mix and match passes, which I don't think you could do last year).  Guess I played it right going to Aspen thins year.  99% sure I'll only be Epic next year anyway.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 27, 2020)

Sugarbush is unlimited with blackouts at base level


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## gregnye (Feb 27, 2020)

I think Sugarbush will get more crowded next year, particularly when those that use up their days at Killington decide to drive the extra hour.

Also Jackson Hole will probably be more crowded this spring as a result of next year's pass restriction. I was considering a trip in April to Salt Lake City, but with Jackson hole no longer on the base pass next year, I probably should go to Jackson hole this year while I can (I've never been).


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## TyWebb (Feb 27, 2020)

Epic pass info not far behind??


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## machski (Feb 27, 2020)

gregnye said:


> I think Sugarbush will get more crowded next year, particularly when those that use up their days at Killington decide to drive the extra hour.
> 
> Also Jackson Hole will probably be more crowded this spring as a result of next year's pass restriction. I was considering a trip in April to Salt Lake City, but with Jackson hole no longer on the base pass next year, I probably should go to Jackson hole this year while I can (I've never been).


And why wouldn't folks have driven up to Sugarbush currently with the Ikon when their K days are used up?  Just because it's unlimited at SB next year vs 5/7 this?  That makes zero sense.

JH could see an uptick this spring, but I don't think the restriction will affect too many.  Likely will generate a bit more revenue for Alterra as many may elect to step up to the full (or of Jackson/Aspen are in your plans and want to split the $ difference, you can).

Not surprised Snowbird is not on the base add on.  Powdr is deep into the Ikon pass (Copper and Eldora are both unlimited even on base in CO).  Locals may be bitching, but I doubt Powdr is.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## gregnye (Feb 27, 2020)

machski said:


> And why wouldn't folks have driven up to Sugarbush currently with the Ikon when their K days are used up?  Just because it's unlimited at SB next year vs 5/7 this?  That makes zero sense.



There's something about having a restricted number of days that makes some people (myself included) more reluctant to use them/wanting to ration them for a powder day. Example: You really don't get that many days at K, particularly if you use one in early October when they open, and one in May when they are open late. Even more so since Pico is part of the combined 5-day total (dumbest thing ever).

With Sugarbush now unlimited, people will likely be more willing to show up even if the conditions are completely icy or sub-optimal, since it doesn't hurt their day count. In other words people will ski there more days next year--you'll probably also see more crowds when the conditions are not good.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 27, 2020)

i ration my K days too. i pay super early season bc its not worth burning an ikon day that is worth ~$120 mid season. i'm down to 2 K days and i dont want to use them until april/may. 

considering a K spring pass, but i still have champlain whiteface/gore (this weekend) and mad river/burke (sometime in march), and a magic 4-pack (gf and i 3/21 weekend). and i still have 4 loon, 4 SR, 2 SB, 2 Stratton, and 5 loaf. my office is closed for good friday april 10 so that sounds like a loaf opportunity. 

i can pay at k in may for superstar t-shirt days i guess


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

gregnye said:


> There's something about having a restricted number of days that makes some people (myself included) more reluctant to use them/wanting to ration them for a powder day. Example: You really don't get that many days at K, particularly if you use one in early October when they open, and one in May when they are open late. Even more so since Pico is part of the combined 5-day total (dumbest thing ever).
> 
> With Sugarbush now unlimited, people will likely be more willing to show up even if the conditions are completely icy or sub-optimal, since it doesn't hurt their day count. In other words people will ski there more days next year--you'll probably also see more crowds when the conditions are not good.


I definitely fit that pattern. (I posted similar on the other long running "Superpass crowd" thread)

Last year, I split my skiing between Stratton and Sugarbush. Only skied at Stratton when condition was marginal across the whole eastern seaboard. Only went to Sugarbush when condition were "expected" to be decent. Also, because Bush has a longer season than Stratton, I kept "planning" to go up later, which didn't happen. 

As such, I only used 2-3 days of my ration of 5. Even though I had more than that when counting Stratton + Bush combined.

Next year, as both are unlimited, I'd more likely to go up to the Bush instead of just "settling" with Stratton. In fact, I might go up as soon as the new pass is valid this spring! 

(On Epic this season, just to mix it up. Hit the mother load when Peak mountains were added)


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

Zand said:


> Guess I need to decide now whether I'm going to Jackson or not next year. And if I do, might as well get the full pass as it would only be $100 more and I can avoid blackout dates.
> 
> Surprised Alta/Bird aren't on the add-on program. They've been crying louder than the Jackson people.



So I just looked at both options and no change at all.  What BS.  Talk about tone-deaf.  They could have EASILY moved to the $150 add on to have at least reduced crowding.  Wow, just wow.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> So I just looked at both options and no change at all.  What BS.  Talk about tone-deaf.  They could have EASILY moved to the $150 add on to have at least reduced crowding.  Wow, just wow.


You shouldn't have been surprised. 

JH and Aspen added Ikon benefit to their own pass last year! Bird did not. 

You've seen it coming. You just didn't want to believe it.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> You shouldn't have been surprised.
> 
> JH and Aspen added Ikon benefit to their own pass last year! Bird did not.
> 
> You've seen it coming. You just didn't want to believe it.



As to "seeing it coming", you saw my post the other day in which I said it was my hope that they would reign it in, but would not be surprised if they did nothing and eff it up.  That's what they did.  As to really disappointed that Alta/Bird have just decided to bend over, yes.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> As to "seeing it coming", you saw my post the other day in which I said it was my hope that they would reign it in, but would not be surprised if they did nothing and eff it up.  That's what they did.  As to really disappointed that Alta/Bird have just decided to bend over, yes.


What do you think is the difference between Aspen/JH vs Alta/Bird? 

It can't just be the Bird's management being "tone dead", I suspect.


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## Zand (Feb 27, 2020)

I don't see this changing anything at Aspen or JH either. $150 for the add-on is less than a single day ticket so anyone who wants to go there still will.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

Zand said:


> I don't see this changing anything at Aspen or JH either. $150 for the add-on is less than a single day ticket so anyone who wants to go there still will.


You're thinking as a eastern skier. JH and Aspen will totally welcome you with open arms, because you'll be paying for lodging and food the whole time you're there. 

But the Colorado mobs may choose NOT to go to Aspen and JH (and sleeping in their cars) as they got plenty of skiing at their doorstep without spending that extra $150. They're the ones Aspen/JH try to "discourage".


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> What do you think is the difference between Aspen/JH vs Alta/Bird?
> 
> It can't just be the Bird's management being "tone dead", I suspect.



Aspen OWNS part of Alterra, so that change was a no-brainer and easy to appease their locals/   

Jackson Hole spoke up LAST SEASON after its locals went batshit crazy and gave them IKON Base passes.  So they spoke up again.  

You must not know about WHO owns Snowbird now and his history of terrible business decisions.  Just google "POWDR" and "Park City Lawsuit" and you'll quickly see how incompetent they are.

The next thing that I expect Snowbird to now do is to increase season pass prices and watch as those numbers continue to fall and wonder why that is.


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## AdironRider (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> You're thinking as a eastern skier. JH and Aspen will totally welcome you with open arms, because you'll be paying for lodging and food the whole time you're there.
> 
> But the Colorado mobs may choose NOT to go to Aspen and JH (and sleeping in their cars) as they got plenty of skiing at their doorstep without spending that extra $150. They're the ones Aspen/JH try to "discourage".



Ikon is still going to be the scarlet letter here in Jackson, and you will probably hear about it when you come. That will not change.  

But the point of how the EC skier still needs to spend the better part of 2 grand between hotels, airfare and food to visit Jackson holds up.  The CO/UT skier can spend 2 tanks of gas, sleep in their Subaru (or couch surf), and brown bag it and get a Jackson weekend in for under 100 bucks. Those dirtbags do nothing for us but make the skiing experience worse.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Aspen OWNS part of Alterra, so that change was a no-brainer and easy to appease their locals/
> 
> Jackson Hole spoke up LAST SEASON after its locals went batshit crazy and gave them IKON Base passes.  So they spoke up again.
> 
> ...


Ok, you maybe right on that last point there.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> Ok, you maybe right on that last point there.



I wish I wasn't to be honest.  

Considering all options for next season.  Maybe taking a year off from LCC is not a bad idea after all.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> The CO/UT skier can spend 2 tanks of gas, sleep in their Subaru (or couch surf), and brown bag it and get a Jackson weekend in for under 100 bucks. Those dirtbags do nothing for us but make the skiing experience worse.


That's what the JH locals bitch about the loudest when I was there! 

And I seriously think many of the CO skiers will NOT pay that $150 extra. It's a long drive. And they've got plenty of skiing closer to home, where "home" may actually be their second home that are far more comfortable than the backseat of their Subaru. And it's no longer* "free"!*

Not sure about the SLC skiers though. They've got their "home mountain" totally screwed up with no place to park etc. Whether they'll pay the extra $150 for a couple weekends of JH is a toss up.


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## Edd (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> I wish I wasn't to be honest.
> 
> Considering all options for next season.  Maybe taking a year off from LCC is not a bad idea after all.



Yeah, man do it. Sounds like a bunch of nonsense to deal with. At least you’ve got more options than the JH locals.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> That's what the JH locals bitch about the loudest when I was there!
> 
> And I seriously think many of the CO skiers will NOT pay that $150 extra. It's a long drive. And they've got plenty of skiing closer to home, where "home" may actually be their second home that are far more comfortable than the backseat of their Subaru. And it's no longer* "free"!*
> 
> Not sure about the SLC skiers though. They've got their "home mountain" totally screwed up with no place to park etc. Whether they'll pay the extra $150 for a couple weekends of JH is a toss up.



I was going to say that there are probably a fair number of UT plates at JH from folks hitting the IKON train.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

Just talked with a buddy of mine who went to the SkiUtah Board Meeting yesterday.  Talk about an echo chamber, spin room, or whatever you want to call it and people drunk off their own Kool Aid.  

Solitude's manager, an Alterra Employee, complained about how unfair the media is in portraying the problem.  While there was congestion on President's Weekend, and the weekends are a mess, "look at all the room to park and ski here on a Wednesday."  Ugh.  

They also said that they are "working" on a transit solution, but when asked where they are going to park cars, they didn't have an answer let alone have even considered it.  

In all, as BG said, completely incompetent.  Or doing one hell of a job pleading ignorance.  It is convenient though--make a ton of money, create huge problems, and shrug because the traffic problem isn't yours to fix, it is the local community's problem.


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## jaytrem (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> I wish I wasn't to be honest.
> 
> Considering all options for next season.  Maybe taking a year off from LCC is not a bad idea after all.



Is there any good SLC full season option anymore?  Would you consider relocating?  You said your friends actually moved up to MT, correct?


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## snoseek (Feb 27, 2020)

Will this coming winter be the 3rd for lcc on the ikon? Does altabird have a 3 year contract? I would live to see at least alta get off this thing. I remember back in the 90s you had to enter a lottery to hope to even purchase a pass there. The difference between then and now is crazy.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

snoseek said:


> Will this coming winter be the 3rd for lcc on the ikon? Does altabird have a 3 year contract? I would live to see at least alta get off this thing. I remember back in the 90s you had to enter a lottery to hope to even purchase a pass there. The difference between then and now is crazy.



This is the third season; someone else mentioned a 3-year commitment in here, but as with everything else related to Alterra, nobody is disclosing the terms of the deal.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Is there any good SLC full season option anymore?  Would you consider relocating?  You said your friends actually moved up to MT, correct?



Not moving.  Yes, friends are in MT and we have a free place to stay up there.  Not an every weekend solution.


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## drjeff (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Just talked with a buddy of mine who went to the SkiUtah Board Meeting yesterday.  Talk about an echo chamber, spin room, or whatever you want to call it and people drunk off their own Kool Aid.
> 
> Solitude's manager, an Alterra Employee, complained about how unfair the media is in portraying the problem.  While there was congestion on President's Weekend, and the weekends are a mess, "look at all the room to park and ski here on a Wednesday."  Ugh.
> 
> ...



Some spin while wearing rose colored glasses? For sure

However the reality is that most every ski resort out there has the capacity for their facility to handle more people on all but maybe 10 to 20 days of the season and if one looks at year round operations/operation potential, there's probably 340 to 350 days a year where they would love to get more people on the property for whatever reason. They are in the ski business afterall.

As consumers, we often hate the crowds (while often also enjoy the costs savings) that the mega passes have brought for many of us. If we were on the corporate side of the ski industry, we'd probably look at it as "we're now having more days where we're at full capacity than ever before, lets keep building on this..."

Where will this all end/play out/come back to reality? Who knows....


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 27, 2020)

snoseek said:


> *back in the 90s you had to enter a lottery to hope to even purchase a pass there. *The difference between then and now is crazy.



What was that all about?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 27, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> *Is there any good SLC full season option anymore?* *Would you consider relocating?*



The fact this is something to even ponder is staggering.   My wife & I have recently been considering moving our budding family out west, and are considering & researching places like Utah & Idaho.  If we did choose Utah, we'd move to the Back, so perhaps it's slightly less of a consideration, but I wonder how many people (locals and tourists) are beginning to consider the Utah ski scene.....ehhh...... not sure what the correct term is, but "impaired" or "damaged" maybe?


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Just talked with a buddy of mine who went to the SkiUtah Board Meeting yesterday. Talk about an echo chamber, spin room, or whatever you want to call it and people drunk off their own Kool Aid.
> ...
> It is convenient though--make a ton of money, create huge problems, and shrug because the traffic problem isn't yours to fix, it is the local community's problem.


You think this is unique to UT? Buddy of mine is working in a local transit system in Colorado. You should hear what she has to say about Vail is doing to the local traffic! She has trouble just getting to work! And we're talking about a broad valley there, not a constricted barely-wide-enough-to-put-in-2-lane-road valley!



BenedictGomez said:


> but I wonder how many people (locals and tourists) are beginning to consider the Utah ski scene.....ehhh...... not sure what the correct term is, but "impaired" or "damaged" maybe?


Ah, but what are your choices? Denver? Do you prefer fire or hot oil...

As a New Yorker transplanted from overseas, I always found this whole attitude of "transit is for the poor" in 99% of this country appallingly shortsighted. The days of having plenty of land to build highways and parking lots had long gone (gone a couple decades back). But people just refuse to accept it. 

Rant over.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> You think this is unique to UT? Buddy of mine is working in a local transit system in Colorado. You should hear what she has to say about Vail is doing to the local traffic! She has trouble just getting to work! And we're talking about a broad valley there, not a constricted barely-wide-enough-to-put-in-2-lane-road valley!



Colorado for sure.  

IKON has, however, created a lot of issues in areas that didn't have it.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> IKON has, however, created a lot of issues in areas that didn't have it.


Sorry, these issues had been brewing for a long time for the SLC area. 

Yes, Ikon made it explode! But had they not been in such an echo chamber for the last 10 or more years, perhaps Ikon would have been the icing on a cake instead of its current status of fly on the ornament?

BTW, Colorado had been blaming Vail just the same way you guys are blaming Ikon. Only they've been bitching about it but not doing much for far longer. So you guys get can look to Colorado to see what's ahead


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## AdironRider (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> Sorry, these issues had been brewing for a long time for the SLC area.
> 
> Yes, Ikon made it explode! But had they not been in such an echo chamber for the last 10 or more years, perhaps Ikon would have been the icing on a cake instead of its current status of fly on the ornament?
> 
> BTW, Colorado had been blaming Vail just the same way you guys are blaming Ikon. Only they've been bitching about it but not doing much for far longer. So you guys get can look to Colorado to see what's ahead



Both the Denver and SLC metro areas have been experiencing massive growth. It really has been a sight to behold the past 15 or so years I've been here. There is a certain element of just a shitload of people are moving there. 

However, Colorado has TABOR, which without going political, is specifically designed to limit the amount spent on infrastructure. Vail (and now Ikon with WP as the base) is dropping the ball by causing almost all of the crowding issues, not spending nearly enough to handle their impact on literally everyone else, all while knowing the state's hands are tied. 

That is compared to UT, which has geographical limitations. I suspect in UT, they are going to tell Save Our Canyons to shove it and start building more resorts and interconnects. And in Colorado, their electorate is rapidly changing. It will be an interesting 20 years or so.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 27, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> *I suspect in UT, they are going to tell Save Our Canyons to shove it and start building more resorts and interconnects. *




Save Our Canyons is a group which uses a bogus environmental cause in order to achieve its' true motive, which is keeping their backcountry playground free from the unwashed masses.  Borderline evil & disingenuous as hell.

Where could Utah build new resorts though?   I realize Mayfair will be a beginner/intermediate thing in a few years, but it seems to me that almost all the mountain areas suitable for ski resorts are government owned.  There is that undeveloped land that's partly-owned by the Snowbird folks, but beyond that I dont know what could be built-out.  I have heard there are places in Utah that could make for wonderful ski resorts though (if it were allowed).


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## AdironRider (Feb 27, 2020)

I think the feds would roll over if the state handles the nimby's directly. They want their 3-6% cut and money talks, bullshit walks eventually.

Completely agree on SOC, and plenty of other like minded groups, which we have up here also. Completely selfish behavior.


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## abc (Feb 27, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> in Colorado, their electorate is rapidly changing. It will be an interesting 20 years or so.


I'll be very happy if I turn out to be wrong. But I'm pessimistic about it. 

The only reason the east has infrastructure to handle the population growth was because it got developed a century ago, before Nimbysm took hold. 

Yes, the population had exploded rapidly in the west. But in my view, the infrastructure didn't just lack behind, it didn't even try to catch up because those who are already there chose to bury their heads in the sand. 

I lived in the west coast for a few years. That attitude is everywhere, in every aspect of the "community", which is less of a community but rather a collection of reluctant "accidental neighbors"


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> Sorry, these issues had been brewing for a long time for the SLC area.



My comments were not just about the Wasatch areas.  Crystal, Jackson Hole, Aspen, and Deer Valley didn't have crowding issues before IKON..... 



> Yes, Ikon made it explode! But had they not been in such an echo chamber for the last 10 or more years, perhaps Ikon would have been the icing on a cake instead of its current status of fly on the ornament?



The State tourism marketing arm has realized that their efforts with the "Big 5" and other marketing promotions have led to a lot of crowding problems.  At last check the State was planning on dialing back the marketing this year.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

abc said:


> I'll be very happy if I turn out to be wrong. But I'm pessimistic about it.
> 
> The only reason the east has infrastructure to handle the population growth was because it got developed a century ago, before Nimbysm took hold.
> 
> ...



OK, hold on....I think you're conflating issues and creating confusion.  Are there any major east coast metro areas that are within 30 miles of at least two or three ski areas?  I'm not talking about Burlington, Vermont or even Portland, Maine.  I'm talking of cities on the order of metro areas of 1 million or so?  I'll save you the trouble--the answer is no.  The only resort that may be comparable is Wachusett and the Boston crowd, but that is ONE resort.  The NE has a lot of resorts spread out over a large area; here we have 1.2 million within literally 1-2 hour drive of eight major ski resorts.  And in geographically/topographically tough areas to access.


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## x10003q (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> My comments were not just about the Wasatch areas.  Crystal, Jackson Hole, Aspen, and Deer Valley didn't have crowding issues before IKON.....
> 
> 
> 
> The State tourism marketing arm has realized that their efforts with the "Big 5" and other marketing promotions have led to a lot of crowding problems.  At last check the State was planning on dialing back the marketing this year.



Crystal has had crowding/parking problems for years due to the one way in from Enumclaw, minimal lodging and not enough parking. The 2004 Master Development Plan includes 2 more parking lots and a 500 car parking "structure" that have not been built. The pass has made it worse, but they knew there were parking problems in 2004. 
https://skimap.org/data/193/1460/1392057371.pdf


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 27, 2020)

crystal is a beds problem as much as a parking and roads problem. wild that there is not more lodging up there.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Is there any good SLC full season option anymore?  Would you consider relocating?  You said your friends actually moved up to MT, correct?



Honestly, this is making me consider what I can do that is best for me and opening me up to consider options.  Loyalty to one or two areas now apparently means nothing.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 27, 2020)

get powmow or snowbasin and augment with ikon base. thats what i would do. no idea what powmow/snowbasin costs, but seems to be the only reasonable option for a SLCer who skis mostly weekends.

and dont say they are too far. they arent too far. they are further than the cottonwoods, but are not too far.


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## machski (Feb 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Aspen OWNS part of Alterra, so that change was a no-brainer and easy to appease their locals/
> 
> Jackson Hole spoke up LAST SEASON after its locals went batshit crazy and gave them IKON Base passes.  So they spoke up again.
> 
> ...


Yes, you have a point on Powdr and past decisions.  I am not shocked they did nothing with Snowbird on Ikon and you shouldn't be either.  I said this on a previous post, Powdr is deep in with the Ikon pass, having their Copper and Eldora resorts unlimited without blackouts at both levels.  Does not shock me they didn't want to rock the Ikon boat.  Sucks for Alta as they seem to be smashed into what Bird does on the pass, but even if they pulled out, Alta may be better when you could get there as the up valley days wouldn't change.

I have to think the base plus is a baby step for Ikon this year.  I bet the base gets more restrictive in future years more akin to the Epic local with regards to the marque resorts and partners on that pass.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

machski said:


> Yes, you have a point on Powdr and past decisions.  I am not shocked they did nothing with Snowbird on Ikon and you shouldn't be either.  I said this on a previous post, Powdr is deep in with the Ikon pass, having their Copper and Eldora resorts unlimited without blackouts at both levels.  Does not shock me they didn't want to rock the Ikon boat.  Sucks for Alta as they seem to be smashed into what Bird does on the pass, but even if they pulled out, Alta may be better when you could get there as the up valley days wouldn't change.
> 
> I have to think the base plus is a baby step for Ikon this year.  I bet the base gets more restrictive in future years more akin to the Epic local with regards to the marque resorts and partners on that pass.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



I thought this year we would see changes to IKON base.  Indeed, Aspen and JH protected themselves, but other than that, nothing changed.  Someone said here that the deal with the partners was a 3-year commitment. Any confirmation of that?


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> get powmow or snowbasin and augment with ikon base. thats what i would do. no idea what powmow/snowbasin costs, but seems to be the only reasonable option for a SLCer who skis mostly weekends.
> 
> and dont say they are too far. they arent too far. they are further than the cottonwoods, but are not too far.



I am indeed considering becoming part of the problem and going to IKON, but holding my nose as I do it.  It's clear to me that Snowbird doesn't give a shit about our business.


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## Edd (Feb 27, 2020)

It’d be interesting if they split the baby (hate that phrase) and sacrificed Snowbird on the Ikon altar and kept Alta local pass only. The incredibly stupid skier-only rule aside, that could keep the most people happy. 


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Feb 27, 2020)

Edd said:


> It’d be interesting if they split the baby (hate that phrase) and sacrificed Snowbird on the Ikon altar and kept Alta local pass only. The incredibly stupid skier-only rule aside, that could keep the most people happy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone



It isn’t happening. Not for 20-21 at least.  Alta is certainly not upset about the money.  Second new flashy website in three seasons.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## pauldotcom (Feb 28, 2020)

Edd said:


> It’d be interesting if they split the baby (hate that phrase) and sacrificed Snowbird on the Ikon altar and kept Alta local pass only. The incredibly stupid skier-only rule aside, that could keep the most people happy.



Ever been to Alta? Snowboarding would be miserable. All of the good terrain requires traversing, similar to MRG but on steroids.


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## abc (Feb 28, 2020)

pauldotcom said:


> Ever been to Alta? Snowboarding would be miserable. All of the good terrain requires traversing, similar to MRG but on steroids.


A: Another
L: Long
T: Traverse
A: AGAIN!


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 28, 2020)

yea, that traverse from sugarloaf to collins, basically impossible on a board. traversing out to catherine's area? nope not gonna happen. devil's castle? also nope. even the wildcat high traverse would be stupid on a snowboard.


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## kingslug (Feb 28, 2020)

Which is why I question why they want to go there..Snowbird is much better for a board. Just a case of wanting what you can't have.


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## pauldotcom (Feb 28, 2020)

That's precisely what it is. Everyone wants what they can't have. And let's be real - the snow is usually better at Alta because no boarding is allowed. Bumps are also better placed.


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## abc (Feb 28, 2020)

pauldotcom said:


> And let's be real - the snow is usually better at Alta because no boarding is allowed. Bumps are also better placed.


I reserve my judgement on that. 

Let's hypothetically speaking, Alta allows boarding. After a month or so, 90% of the boarders who "want to have what they can't" had gotten stuck on the flats long enough they never come back. The 10% who DO come back are probably expert boarder who CAN hack the traverse. Would they degrade the snow any worse than a bunch of intermediate skiers side-slipping down the bump field?

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Alta doesn't allow clueless boarders. But I'm not convince it's all that big a deal. Taos allowed boarding what, a few years back? Were the snow quality and bump fields noticeably worse now than before?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2020)

abc said:


> Were the snow quality and bump fields noticeably worse now than before?



I dont even know what people mean by "snow quality", but bumps were worse, and I've never been there.  Beginner & Intermediate snowboarders harm bump formation & bump quality.   I dont understand why people still debate this as much as I dont understand people debating whether the earth is flat.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2020)

Today I received emails from Breckenridge, Stowe, Vail, and Park City, all timestamped precisely at 10:02am.


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## abc (Feb 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> bumps were worse, and I've never been there.


???


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2020)

abc said:


> ???



*Empirically:*  Science (which is what I meant by my flat earth comments). Science understands how nice moguls are formed, and it's not how snowboarders generally navigate mogul fields.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-skiers-move-moguls-uphill

*Anecdotally:* Ever been to Alta, Deer Valley, and MRG?  Absolutely, positively, gloriously perfect mogul fields.


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## abc (Feb 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> *Empirically:*  Science (which is what I meant by my flat earth comments). Science understands how nice moguls are formed, and it's not how snowboarders generally navigate mogul fields.
> 
> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-skiers-move-moguls-uphill
> 
> *Anecdotally:* Ever been to Alta, Deer Valley, and MRG?  Absolutely, positively, gloriously perfect mogul fields.


I asked specifically about Taos, which disallowed boarders until a couple years back, for first hand real world comparison to verify the “theory”.


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## Domeskier (Feb 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> *Anecdotally:* Ever been to Alta, Deer Valley, and MRG?  Absolutely, positively, gloriously perfect mogul fields.



I have never been to MRG, but we seem to have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a perfect mogul field:


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## Zermatt (Feb 28, 2020)

abc said:


> A: Another
> L: Long
> T: Traverse
> A: AGAIN!



Ever been to Revelstoke?  Their traverses crush Alta is length and flatness yet snowboarders do just fine.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 28, 2020)

i disagree. revelstoke has a lot more areas where you can just ski down. there may be some traversing required, but its not mandatory to ride the mountain. the thing with alta is that you must traverse to get to many, if not most, areas. and the major 'cross-mountain' route that you must use to return to the base/parking area is a giant cat track traverse that snowboarders would need to take their boards off for and post-hole.


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## Zermatt (Feb 28, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i disagree. revelstoke has a lot more areas where you can just ski down. there may be some traversing required, but its not mandatory to ride the mountain. the thing with alta is that you must traverse to get to many, if not most, areas. and the major 'cross-mountain' route that you must use to return to the base/parking area is a giant cat track traverse that snowboarders would need to take their boards off for and post-hole.



Doesn't the bottom area have a tow at Alta?

The only way out from The Ripper chair (maybe 40% of Revelstoke terrain?) is via Downtowner with multiple long flat sections.  Some you can make if you tuck but I saw a lot of snowboarders walking last week.  Lots of flats to get out of the North Bowl as well which then leads you to The Ripper with only one trail out.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 28, 2020)

yes there is a tow across the bottom, but practically speaking you need the east baldy traverse. and that is just to get back to goldminer's daughter. that isnt even talking about the traverses you need to do to get to the terrain. as mentioned above, devil's castle and catherine's are literally impossible on a board, and those are major parts of alta.


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## kingslug (Feb 28, 2020)

The traverses at Alta are tiring on skis..on a board they would be ...death. And i have traversed way the hell out there from Catherines and other areas to find the goods. 
But this is probably one of the oldest discussions in modern ski history.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 28, 2020)

While snowboards do have a negative impact on moguls, it is minor and overblown to the point of being basically inconsequential.  The two best mountains for moguls in New England are Sugarbush and Killington.  Both have better lines and spacing than MRG; not to say MRG bumps are bad.  Both K and SB have plenty of snowboarders. 

As for long traverses, they make some pretty nice split boards these days.  Also, the two areas in the East with the greatest amount of sidecountry terrain are Stowe and Sugarloaf.  You can literally traverse out two miles at both, maybe more.  I've seen people snowboarding out in the farthest regions at each.  Good on them for putting in the effort to try and enjoy that terrain just like I do on skis.  I have not skied Alta, but I'm sure plenty of boarders would find a way to make it work. 

End of the day, snowboarding bans are dumb.  Taos is getting along just fine after lifting their ban.  Same would be the case at Alta, DV or MRG.  Would love to see the lame ass bans lifted at all three.  The resulting elitist ski snob meltdowns on social media would be very amusing.  

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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 28, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> The resulting elitist ski snob meltdowns on social media would be very amusing.



It would be the best thing since Megapasses :lol: :lol:


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## snoseek (Feb 28, 2020)

Heavenly is loaded full of massive traverses and snowboarders and has some great bump skiing.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> * I have not skied Alta,* but* I'm sure plenty of boarders would find a way to make it work. *



Depends what you mean by, "make it work"; I think what would happen is a lot of snowboarders would congregate in similar areas where they can avoid traverses. 

 There are places at Alta where the only thing I can compare it too is essentially full-blown XC skiing for a spell.  If your XC technique on downhill gear is solid (as I suspect most here is) it wont bother you in the least.  On a snowboard?  LOL


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## deadheadskier (Feb 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Depends what you mean by, "make it work"; I think what would happen is a lot of snowboarders would congregate in similar areas where they can avoid traverses.
> 
> There are places at Alta where the only thing I can compare it too is essentially full-blown XC skiing for a spell.  If your XC technique on downhill gear is solid (as I suspect most here is) it wont bother you in the least.  On a snowboard?  LOL



That's rich!  

Got all the pro snowboard ban greatest hits going on in here.

Don't come here, you'll F up the moguls!

You couldn't handle the gnarly traverses on your gear bro!

Trust me bro, you'd really hate Alta! Believe me, it will suck for you!

Do you think the same crap about people who snowboard at all ski areas A to Z?  

Seriously, is sharing the precious Alta, Deer Valley or MRG slopes with snowboarders going to fuck up your day that bad?  Does it elsewhere?  


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 28, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> That's rich!



Pretty dumb post by someone who readily admits he's never been to Alta, especially given numerous folks here prior to me have already explained the long traverses required to get from Point A to Point B (and Point O to Point P).

And FYI, there are over 800 ski resorts in North America, so I dont really see how there being 3 which are ski only is being "anti-snowboard".  If Jake Burton's trust decides tomorrow to create North America's first "snowboard only" resort, good for them, and I couldnt care less (and I certainly wouldnt act all butt-hurt about it).


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## deadheadskier (Feb 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Pretty dumb post by someone who readily admits he's never been to Alta, especially given numerous folks here prior to me have already explained the long traverses required to get from Point A to Point B (and Point O to Point P).
> 
> And FYI, there are over 800 ski resorts in North America, so I dont really see how there being 3 which are ski only is being "anti-snowboard".  If Jake Burton's trust decides tomorrow to create North America's first "snowboard only" resort, good for them, and I couldnt care less (and I certainly wouldnt act all butt-hurt about it).


LOL


Quoted for posterity

Where you skiing this weekend BG?  That place gonna have gnarly traverses that snowboarders can't even dream about crossing? 

At Stowe, do you stand at the head of the traverse out to the bench and beyond and tell the snowboarders, "Don't go bro! You're equipment sucks and you'll have no fun,!"

I'm sure the thousands of snowboarders in Utah that would like to ride Alta are super grateful that some dude from Jersey is telling them, "Don't do it bro! I know what will make you happy more than you know it yourselves!  Alta would suck for you!"





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## thetrailboss (Feb 28, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yea, that traverse from sugarloaf to collins, basically impossible on a board. traversing out to catherine's area? nope not gonna happen. devil's castle? also nope. even the wildcat high traverse would be stupid on a snowboard.



FWIW they plan on ending the EBT and replacing it with a lift in the not to distant future.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 28, 2020)

pauldotcom said:


> That's precisely what it is. Everyone wants what they can't have. And let's be real - the snow is usually better at Alta because no boarding is allowed. Bumps are also better placed.



Honestly, I was ok with the ban. But with the increasing sense of entitlement and Altatude, I think snowboards should be allowed now.  


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## Zermatt (Feb 29, 2020)

Back to the original topic.

When do Epic and MountainCollective usually come out?  Seems like Sugarbush will come off MC...maybe they add Jay?

What's up with the new 4 day Ikon?  It almost looks like you have to pick your ski areas when you purchase the pass.


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## skicub (Feb 29, 2020)

Very torn right now:

This is the first year in almost 10 that I haven’t bought a Sunday river/New England pass, instead opting for the IKON (I did the MAXpass add on for the two years it was available - a fucking steal). I had planned on just getting a New England pass this spring and going back to getting that along with a few skiVT passes, but now I’m wondering if I should just stick with the IKON.

I’m a daytripper from Lowell, MA and thus I can be anywhere in New England in a daytrip. I enjoy the unlimited half days at Loon, 5-7 day trips to SR and a few long ones every year to the Loaf, with the NE bronze. That being said, I’ve really enjoyed checking out sugarbush this season, and the flexibility of 5 days at Pico/Killi (since Pico is great with my family and I have a friend with a house at Killi). I can take or leave Stratton, though my in laws have a place near bromley, so the odd day here or there is an added bonus. Tremblant was kind of crowded for my tastes, but my fam had a nice time for a few days there also. My best friends live in Seattle now, so a trip to Crystal or snoqualmie is also very doable (Snowqualmie this year). If Jay got added to the IKON it wouldn’t be a question, and I’d just get it.

I maintain a yearly midweek pass at Bromley, since it’s pretty cheap and I have a place to stay there, and usually get the Fox44 card end of season for a Magic, Mad River, and Smuggs day. I am also considering an Indy pass for next season, because I would love to check out BMOM, Black, and some of the smaller mountains, though I know it’s not a great deal, since most of those places are cheap midweek anyways.

All that being said, I like the investment plans recently put out by Boyne, and want to support my “home mountains”. But I also thoroughly enjoy the flexibility of the IKON. What do I do??


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## thetrailboss (Feb 29, 2020)

billo said:


> Back to the original topic.
> 
> When do Epic and MountainCollective usually come out?  Seems like Sugarbush will come off MC...maybe they add Jay?
> 
> What's up with the new 4 day Ikon?  It almost looks like you have to pick your ski areas when you purchase the pass.



Mountain Collective is all but dead it seems considering that IKON is out.  I would not be surprised if it is not an option this year.


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## Zermatt (Feb 29, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Mountain Collective is all but dead it seems considering that IKON is out.  I would not be surprised if it is not an option this year.



I was thinking that too. Still popular out west though for road trips, the 50% off extra days is huge.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 29, 2020)

billo said:


> I was thinking that too. Still popular out west though for road trips, the 50% off extra days is huge.



For sure.  IIRC this is a Liftopia deal that they have run.  Considering that, it may continue to exist.


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## bousquet19 (Mar 1, 2020)

billo said:


> Back to the original topic.
> 
> When do Epic and MountainCollective usually come out?  Seems like Sugarbush will come off MC...maybe they add Jay?
> 
> (snip)



It's hard, if not impossible, to decide about passes for 2020-21 when Epic hasn't yet announced their prices or options.  As a Mid-Atlantic skier (my home areas = Whitetail, Liberty PA) who gets to the NEast for a few days each year, I'm drawn to the Epic Pass but only if they offer some sort of "Pennsylvania local" pass for their 5 PA areas at a reasonable price.  

I also go to Snowshoe 4-6 days a year, so I'll buy SS's Ridiculous Pass ($279 unlimited) or the Ikon Pass 

C'mon Epic:  Let us know what's up!

Woody


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## machski (Mar 1, 2020)

billo said:


> Back to the original topic.
> 
> When do Epic and MountainCollective usually come out?  Seems like Sugarbush will come off MC...maybe they add Jay?
> 
> What's up with the new 4 day Ikon?  It almost looks like you have to pick your ski areas when you purchase the pass.


Epic had a similar thing to the Ikon 4 day pass coming out this year, so I guess as a similar offering to that.  For most on this board, that will be of Zero interest.

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## 2planks2coasts (Mar 1, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> get powmow or snowbasin and augment with ikon base. thats what i would do. no idea what powmow/snowbasin costs, but seems to be the only reasonable option for a SLCer who skis mostly weekends.
> 
> and dont say they are too far. they arent too far. they are further than the cottonwoods, but are not too far.




This. Though I would ditch the Ikon base and get a PowMow Pass and an indyPass for trips further afield to ID and MT. That combo also gets you three days at Eagle Point (in Beaver, UT)  and  two days at Beaver Mountain (in Logan, UT) You don't have to help Vail and/or Alterra destroy the sport in order to enjoy awesome skiing.


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## jaytrem (Mar 2, 2020)

I see the start date for spring use has been pushed back 5 days for Squaw, Mammoth, etc.  Can't start using until April 13th this year, last year was the 8th.  They lose out on possibly selling me a pass if they're not good the week before Easter (kids' school closed).  I pretty much stuck with Epic in the future anyway, but do have free lodging at Squaw, so we'll see what the future brings.


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## AdironRider (Mar 2, 2020)

As a local at a similar hill, good. No one feels bad for you that next year's pass is only good for a couple months (yes months squaw closes Memorial Day if not later) this year also.


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## jaytrem (Mar 2, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> As a local at a similar hill, good. No one feels bad for you that next year's pass is only good for a couple months (yes months squaw closes Memorial Day if not later) this year also.



Yeah, that maybe be true.  But people also don't feel bad for a transplant that thinks he's a local and doesn't realize he's part of the crowding problem.


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## xlr8r (Mar 3, 2020)

Epic details released
https://www.epicpass.com/

new northeast value and midweek passes for $599 and $449 respectively

Epic and Epic local look unchanged except for price increase.


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 3, 2020)

anyone have experience with Epic College Pass?  I can't seem to find the price.  Definitely considering that for my son


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## deadheadskier (Mar 3, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> Epic details released
> https://www.epicpass.com/
> 
> new northeast value and midweek passes for $599 and $449 respectively
> ...


Northeast value likely means increased holiday crowds at the NH and Mid Atlantic areas and a slight reduction at NY and VT areas.  

$599 is a steal for a guy like me who won't be heading west and has little desire to ski in VT during holiday periods. 

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## prsboogie (Mar 3, 2020)

There is a link under speciality Pass but no price





jimmywilson69 said:


> anyone have experience with Epic College Pass?  I can't seem to find the price.  Definitely considering that for my son



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## prsboogie (Mar 3, 2020)

Yup, just renewed our passes





deadheadskier said:


> Northeast value likely means increased holiday crowds at the NH and Mid Atlantic areas and a slight reduction at NY and VT areas.
> 
> $599 is a steal for a guy like me who won't be heading west and has little desire to ski in VT during holiday periods.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



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## TyWebb (Mar 3, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> anyone have experience with Epic College Pass?  I can't seem to find the price.  Definitely considering that for my son



https://www.epicpass.com/passes/epic-local-college-pass.aspx


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## TyWebb (Mar 3, 2020)

Can’t seem to find any info on free spring skiing if you purchase a pass for next season ... anyone help?


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## prsboogie (Mar 3, 2020)

I believe only out west, no local options which I thought was kind of a dick move on their part, but it is Vail afterall 





TyWebb said:


> Can’t seem to find any info on free spring skiing if you purchase a pass for next season ... anyone help?



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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 3, 2020)

TyWebb said:


> https://www.epicpass.com/passes/epic-local-college-pass.aspx




thanks definitely wasn't a price when I posted.  They must've still been loading the pass webpage info.


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## drjeff (Mar 3, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> Epic details released
> https://www.epicpass.com/
> 
> new northeast value and midweek passes for $599 and $449 respectively
> ...



20% off food AND BEVERAGE up to a bill of $150 a day is new

Free waxing and 50% off of tuning is new as well

A few other perks with lodging, rental and mountain activities discounts as well


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## prsboogie (Mar 3, 2020)

drjeff said:


> 20% off food AND BEVERAGE up to a bill of $150 a day is new
> 
> Free waxing and 50% off of tuning is new as well
> 
> A few other perks with lodging, rental and mountain activities discounts as well



I'm curious if the wax/tune will be at every resort. 
F&B is a nice little perk, a little thank you.

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## xlr8r (Mar 3, 2020)

drjeff said:


> 20% off food AND BEVERAGE up to a bill of $150 a day is new
> 
> Free waxing and 50% off of tuning is new as well
> 
> A few other perks with lodging, rental and mountain activities discounts as well



Looking into the details page, the free wax and 50% off tuning is only out west.  For New England all we get is 10% off tuning at Stowe


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## jaytrem (Mar 3, 2020)

TyWebb said:


> Can’t seem to find any info on free spring skiing if you purchase a pass for next season ... anyone help?



I don't recall Epic doing that in the past.


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## xlr8r (Mar 3, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> I don't recall Epic doing that in the past.



Looks like you can apply the price of one lift ticket bought this spring towards the price of a 20/21 pass.
https://www.epicpass.com/info/tiyt.aspx


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## deadheadskier (Mar 3, 2020)

Perhaps I'm missing it, but what is the Early Bird price cut off date for Epic?

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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 3, 2020)

not sure on that... I know if you lock in now you only pay $49 and the rest is charged in September or something.


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## abc (Mar 3, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Perhaps I'm missing it, but what is the Early Bird price cut off date for Epic?


There's no set date. 

Also, instead of raising the price, last year they start taking away the "freebies" like buddy pass etc.

If you give them your e-mail address, you'll be bombarded with announcement of such price-increase/benefit-reduction ahead of time.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 3, 2020)

drjeff said:


> 20% off food AND BEVERAGE up to a bill of $150 a day is new



Now a wet, sloppy, slice of pizza with gelatinous "cheese" will only cost 1/2 day's wages.


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## thebigo (Mar 3, 2020)

Overall our costs go down vs peak but we add sunapee and february vacation week option at stowe. 

I may be missing it but there does not appear to be a northeast pass for kids 7 - 13. Ages 5 & 6 are $49 and under 5 are free, absolute steal.


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## abc (Mar 3, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Now a wet, sloppy, slice of pizza with gelatinous "cheese" will only cost 1/2 day's *minimum *wages.


Fix it for you.

It's not like non-Vail mountains have better or foods


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## njdiver85 (Mar 3, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> Looks like you can apply the price of one lift ticket bought this spring towards the price of a 20/21 pass.
> https://www.epicpass.com/info/tiyt.aspx



Just an fyi.  Looks like this only works if you purchase your pass in full rather than $49 down.


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## FBGM (Mar 3, 2020)

Vails new pass just released. Game changer. Get ready to get epic.


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## prsboogie (Mar 3, 2020)

thebigo said:


> Overall our costs go down vs peak but we add sunapee and february vacation week option at stowe.
> 
> I may be missing it but there does not appear to be a northeast pass for kids 7 - 13. Ages 5 & 6 are $49 and under 5 are free, absolute steal.


Have to buy Local Passes for the kids - $379 a piece. 

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## thetrailboss (Mar 3, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Vails new pass just released. Game changer. Get ready to get epic.



I presume you're talking about this?  

https://www.epicpass.com/passes/northeast-value-pass.aspx

The Northeast Value Pass?  Not a bad deal if you ski NH a lot.


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## zyk (Mar 3, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> I presume you're talking about this?
> 
> https://www.epicpass.com/passes/northeast-value-pass.aspx
> 
> The Northeast Value Pass?  Not a bad deal if you ski NH a lot.



Also northeast midweek pass.  Great if you (like me) can't do weekends and only ski in the northeast.


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## pauldotcom (Mar 3, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> While snowboards do have a negative impact on moguls, it is minor and overblown to the point of being basically inconsequential.  The two best mountains for moguls in New England are Sugarbush and Killington.  Both have better lines and spacing than MRG; not to say MRG bumps are bad.  AlpineZone mobile app



This post is fake news. Seriously, how could anyone claim this?


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## gregnye (Mar 3, 2020)

The worst thing is that the drifter pass is now gone. That was $400 and unlimited to Peaks Resorts

Now, it's $600, and you just have Okemo, Sunapee and 10 days at Stowe.

I know so many people age 20-30 that have used this pass for many years. The really question is whether they will pay the $200 price increase and get the new england one, or will they choose better alternatives like Boyne's Nitro New England pass that's $400 and Loon, Sugarloaf and Sunday River??


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## Domeskier (Mar 3, 2020)

pauldotcom said:


> This post is fake news. Seriously, how could anyone claim this?



Not fake news - Killington really is one of the best mountains in New England for bumps.  When they're not grooming everything flat, at least.


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## machski (Mar 3, 2020)

gregnye said:


> The worst thing is that the drifter pass is now gone. That was $400 and unlimited to Peaks Resorts
> 
> Now, it's $600, and you just have Okemo, Sunapee and 10 days at Stowe.
> 
> I know so many people age 20-30 that have used this pass for many years. The really question is whether they will pay the $200 price increase and get the new england one, or will they choose better alternatives like Boyne's Nitro New England pass that's $400 and Loon, Sugarloaf and Sunday River??


You're assuming Nitro comes back, Boyne hasn't announced NEP lineup yet.

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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 3, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> Not fake news - Killington really is one of the best mountains in New England for bumps.  When they're not grooming everything flat, at least.



killington is not even close to being guilty of that cardinal sin of stratton and okemo. k leaves a lot of stuff ungroomed every day.


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## Domeskier (Mar 3, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> killington is not even close to being guilty of that cardinal sin of stratton and okemo. k leaves a lot of stuff ungroomed every day.



I really only ski there in April and May.  The strips they groom up the middle of Superstar practically every spring morning are an abomination.  So many beautiful zipper lines destroyed to feed the early morning groomer crowd before they head to their cars at 9:30am for parking lot barbecue.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 3, 2020)

on a typical 100% midwinter day they generally report about 80 of 140 trails groomed. lots of stuff never ever sees a groomer


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## JimG. (Mar 3, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> I really only ski there in April and May.  The strips they groom up the middle of Superstar practically every spring morning are an abomination.  So many beautiful zipper lines destroyed to feed the early morning groomer crowd before they head to their cars at 9:30am for parking lot barbecue.



As a passholder I agree with Kusty; one reason I love K is that they do leave a lot of terrain ungroomed.

I ski until the end of April but I also agree with you that the incessant grooming of SS all spring is silly. I guess you have to try to please all clients even if only 1 trail is open. I give K credit for spending the money to groom anything in May.


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## Jully (Mar 3, 2020)

machski said:


> You're assuming Nitro comes back, Boyne hasn't announced NEP lineup yet.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



Yeah that is whacky. Any idea what is up? Didn't they have the "flash sale" in February last two years?


----------



## machski (Mar 4, 2020)

Jully said:


> Yeah that is whacky. Any idea what is up? Didn't they have the "flash sale" in February last two years?


Not really.  If I had to venture a guess, they are probably debating hard how to price competitively with Ikon and now the Epic and Northeast Epic products.  All while planning a ton of investment across the three NE resorts.  If prices aren't dropping and I were them, I'd be damned sure to have new lifts for summer '21 install confirmed and announced for SR & SL when they do drop the NEP pricing for next year.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

i wonder what effect, if any, all of this will have on my ticketsatwork.com promotions. its a corporate benefits site my company has access to.

currently i can get tickets to killington, mount snow, stratton, pico, sugarbush, bromley, and jay with discounts from 30% to 50% of list price. and i can buy it in the parking lot the morning i am skiing if i want to. 

includes lots of other epic/ikon places in other states. i just toggled to vt for this post.


----------



## sankaty (Mar 4, 2020)

Any guesses on how the new Epic and Ikon offerings will affect Killington's offerings?  Last year, they didn't offer a holiday-restricted pass, so the only way to get a pass for weekend skiing was to buy their $999 unlimited pass, which had no blackouts but was only good at Killington/Pico.  I can't see why anyone but the most dedicated Kton devotees would go for that this year when you can ski Sugarbush or Stowe, plus lots of great other northeastern and western mountains for about $700 with a Ikon/Epic pass (or $600 for the Epic NE pass if going out west isn't in the cards).

To be broadly competitive, I'm guessing that Kton needs to offer a holiday-restricted pass in the $600 range that is good at K/Pico plus maybe 5 days+ at Copper and/or Snowbird.  If they could arrange for a few days at other northeastern Ikon mountains, they could charge up to $700.  $1K for a K/Pico only pass is a nonstarter for me.


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

sankaty said:


> Any guesses on how the new Epic and Ikon offerings will affect Killington's offerings?  Last year, they didn't offer a holiday-restricted pass, so the only way to get a pass for weekend skiing was to buy their $999 unlimited pass, which had no blackouts but was only good at Killington/Pico.  I can't see why anyone but the most dedicated Kton devotees would go for that this year when you can ski Sugarbush or Stowe, plus lots of great other northeastern and western mountains for about $700 with a Ikon/Epic pass (or $600 for the Epic NE pass if going out west isn't in the cards).
> 
> To be broadly competitive, I'm guessing that Kton needs to offer a holiday-restricted pass in the $600 range that is good at K/Pico plus maybe 5 days+ at Copper and/or Snowbird.  If they could arrange for a few days at other northeastern Ikon mountains, they could charge up to $700.  $1K for a K/Pico only pass is a nonstarter for me.



I will certainly be a K/Pico unlimited passholder regardless of price. I just hope they continue to offer season passes and only limited access for Ikon passholders. 

Frankly, they should offer full K/Pico passholders unlimited (or I'd settle for limited) access to the other Ikon NE mountains.


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## sankaty (Mar 4, 2020)

JimG. said:


> I will certainly be a K/Pico unlimited passholder regardless of price. I just hope they continue to offer season passes and only limited access for Ikon passholders.
> 
> Frankly, they should offer full K/Pico passholders unlimited (or I'd settle for limited) access to the other Ikon NE mountains.



If the NE specific IKON pass that you're proposing materialized (unlimited access to NE IKON resorts including K/Pico), I'd likely go for it if it were price competitive with the Epic NE pass.

I'm sure you have excellent reasons for committing to a K/Pico pass regardless of price (I assume you've got access to a place nearby?), but presumably they'd want to interest folks who are evaluating all the options.


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

sankaty said:


> If the NE specific IKON pass that you're proposing materialized (unlimited access to NE IKON resorts including K/Pico), I'd likely go for it if it were price competitive with the Epic NE pass.
> 
> I'm sure you have excellent reasons for committing to a K/Pico pass regardless of price (I assume you've got access to a place nearby?), but presumably they'd want to interest folks who are evaluating all the options.



K is just the best option for me. The best VT mountain by a large margin within 3.5 hours from home. Don't have a place nearby, usually do 2 days with a hotel overnight. I also occasionally (3-4x per season} day trip it. 

Also have the ORDA NYS 3 in 1. Gore, Whiteface and Belle. Gore and Belle closer to home than K and very day trippable. WF an overnight. 

I just have no interest in skiing out west right now, maybe after my last one graduates college. I think K could keep their current price if they added 5 days each at Stratton and SB. That would make me very happy and I would probably never say another bad thing about megapasses. I would even be OK paying $100 more.


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## jg17 (Mar 4, 2020)

JimG. said:


> I will certainly be a K/Pico unlimited passholder regardless of price. I just hope they continue to offer season passes and only limited access for Ikon passholders.
> 
> Frankly, they should offer full K/Pico passholders unlimited (or I'd settle for limited) access to the other Ikon NE mountains.



It's certainly possible that K could offer it in the future, some mountains (I believe Jackson Hole, Aspen, and maybe a few others) I've heard are offering Ikon for free to their top tier passholders.


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

jg17 said:


> It's certainly possible that K could offer it in the future, some mountains (I believe Jackson Hole, Aspen, and maybe a few others) I've heard are offering Ikon for free to their top tier passholders.



I have heard that. Like I said before, I'd even be OK with paying a small premium on top of the cost of the K unlimited pass.


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## AdironRider (Mar 4, 2020)

Jackson did give us Ikon base passes as a bribe to try and shut us locals up after last year. They then sent a notice via email in late July that you had to claim it by August or you wouldn't get one. Who checks their season pass emails in the middle of July? Approximately no one. They also welched on anyone who got a pass paid partially by their employer. Great job guys, that is about as close to a bait and switch as you can get without being one. 

The real problem though is when you pay 1500+ to ski Jackson for a season, you don't leave to go ski low angle groomers in Colorado with worse snow.


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## chuckstah (Mar 4, 2020)

jg17 said:


> It's certainly possible that K could offer it in the future, some mountains (I believe Jackson Hole, Aspen, and maybe a few others) I've heard are offering Ikon for free to their top tier passholders.


Rumor I heard, but not very reliable, is K 365 passholders, (top tier) will get a free Ikon. To be announced soon.  

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using AlpineZone mobile app


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> Jackson did give us Ikon base passes as a bribe to try and shut us locals up after last year. They then sent a notice via email in late July that you had to claim it by August or you wouldn't get one. Who checks their season pass emails in the middle of July? Approximately no one. They also welched on anyone who got a pass paid partially by their employer. Great job guys, that is about as close to a bait and switch as you can get without being one.
> 
> The real problem though is when you pay 1500+ to ski Jackson for a season, you don't leave to go ski low angle groomers in Colorado with worse snow.



lol. i feel you. but revelstoke, alta/bird, squaw when it is going off, highlands. plenty of places to get your gnar on.


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## Tonyr (Mar 4, 2020)

JimG. said:


> K is just the best option for me. The best VT mountain by a large margin within 3.5 hours from home. Don't have a place nearby, usually do 2 days with a hotel overnight. I also occasionally (3-4x per season} day trip it.
> 
> Also have the ORDA NYS 3 in 1. Gore, Whiteface and Belle. Gore and Belle closer to home than K and very day trippable. WF an overnight.
> 
> I just have no interest in skiing out west right now, maybe after my last one graduates college. I think K could keep their current price if they added 5 days each at Stratton and SB. That would make me very happy and I would probably never say another bad thing about megapasses. I would even be OK paying $100 more.



That dedication going back and forth to Killington in one day 3.5 hours each way! How do you stay awake on the drive home?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 4, 2020)

i day trip gore/magic regularly (4 hours from brooklyn). i've done k/mad river as day trips. you just do it.


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## andrec10 (Mar 4, 2020)

kustytheklown said:


> i day trip gore/magic regularly (4 hours from brooklyn). I've done k/mad river as day trips. You just do it.



nope!


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## Creakyknees (Mar 4, 2020)

*I'm looking for winter,,,,,,,,,,*

EPIC Pass is now on sale for 2020/2021. EPIC Local is now $729.0. 

https://www.epicpass.com/pass-results/passes.aspx

I paid $629.0 for this season. Is winter ever going to arrive this season?


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## TyWebb (Mar 4, 2020)

if either Epic or Ikon purchased Blue, Elk or Camel I'd really get my $$ worth and my decision would be easy.  Obviously makes sense for Ikon to purchase one of them + a Catskill Mt to compete with Epic since they purchased Peak.


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## Quietman (Mar 4, 2020)

Creakyknees said:


> I paid $629.0 for this season. Is winter ever going to arrive this season?



Amen!  I am so glad that I decided to work for my pass this year, instead of buying one.  Northern resorts have done better, but this currently ranks as one of the worst natural snow years in the last 15 years S NH and below.


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## sankaty (Mar 4, 2020)

I just realized that I thought I was looking at last year's prices, but Killington already had next year's prices on their site:

$999 for an unlimited season pass
$999 for an Ikon Pass
$569 midweek
$1,300+ for Beast 365

I don't get it.  Just doesn't seem competitive to me, especially with no multimountain access on their unlimited pass.  I really don't get why they don't offer a holiday-restricted pass.

Killington is a great mountain, but is it really worth $300 more than unlimited, non holiday Stowe/Mount Snow/Okemo skiing plus Vail resorts world wide?  Or $400 more than the Epic NE pass?


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

sankaty said:


> Killington is a great mountain, but is it really worth $300 more than unlimited, non holiday Stowe/Mount Snow/Okemo skiing plus Vail resorts world wide?  Or $400 more than the Epic NE pass?



Again depends whose eye is doing the beholding.

For me it is worth it. Stowe is just too far away for me and Okemo/Mt. Snow don't compare to K.

Maybe in 4 years I will think differently. I'm beginning to think we would be better off retiring out west.


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

chuckstah said:


> Rumor I heard, but not very reliable, is K 365 passholders, (top tier) will get a free Ikon. To be announced soon.



If ultimately true I would buy the 365 to get that deal. Would that include unlimited access to Sugarbush?


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## JimG. (Mar 4, 2020)

Tonyr said:


> That dedication going back and forth to Killington in one day 3.5 hours each way! How do you stay awake on the drive home?



Like Kusty said, you just get in the car and do it. 

It helps that I genuinely enjoy driving. And I love skiing.


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## thebigo (Mar 5, 2020)

If I understand the only advantage to buying epic now is the buddy and swaf tickets. Has anyone used the buddy or ski with a friend tickets? Do you save real money or is it 10% off a $100 ticket?


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## Smellytele (Mar 5, 2020)

thebigo said:


> If I understand the only advantage to buying epic now is the buddy and swaf tickets. Has anyone used the buddy or ski with a friend tickets? Do you save real money or is it 10% off a $100 ticket?



I have used them out west before and you save 30-50%. I skied vail and beaver creek for about $100 each. Walk up was close to 200 at the time


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> I have used them out west before and you save 30-50%. I skied vail and beaver creek for about $100 each. Walk up was close to 200 at the time
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Lol what a bargain


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## Tonyr (Mar 5, 2020)

thebigo said:


> If I understand the only advantage to buying epic now is the buddy and swaf tickets. Has anyone used the buddy or ski with a friend tickets? Do you save real money or is it 10% off a $100 ticket?



My brother met us in Beaver Creek this year for a few days. When I went to purchase tickets for him I thought I had buddy passes but they were only the friends and family passes. I think the walk up rate at Vail/BC is $220, the buddy pass was $135 and the friends & family pass price was $190 which is the price you could have paid online by booking a week or two ahead of time. There is not a whole lot of value to the friends and family tickets, it's kind of a joke that Vail even offers it as a benefit.


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## skiur (Mar 5, 2020)

chuckstah said:


> Rumor I heard, but not very reliable, is K 365 passholders, (top tier) will get a free Ikon. To be announced soon.
> 
> Sent from my moto e5 cruise using AlpineZone mobile app



I have heard that rumor too, but K has announced there prices for next year and no mention of an ikon pass for 365 passholders.


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## chuckstah (Mar 5, 2020)

Snowbird just announced a free Ikon with the top tier pass and, as noted above, K announced prices without a free Ikon, so it looks like a no go.  Or maybe details are still being worked out.  No one will complain if suddenly offered a free Ikon with the 365 pass.

https://www.snowbird.com/superior-pass/


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

is it weird that the snowbird pass doesnt give them ikon access to alta?


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## skiur (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> is it weird that the snowbird pass doesnt give them ikon access to alta?



Not really, that would kinda piss off all the snowboarding pass holders at snowbird.


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## sankaty (Mar 5, 2020)

Killington just updated their pass page to show that the 365 pass does indeed include an Ikon Base pass.

https://www.killington.com/plan-your-trip/tickets-passes/season-passes

Still way over budget for me, but I guess a decent deal for folks that can take advantage of all the benefits.

Would love to see K offer a blackout pass.  Seems notable that they haven't been promoting their products yet (nothing on the front page or via social media).  Maybe things are still in flux?


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2020)

chuckstah said:


> Snowbird just announced a free Ikon with the top tier pass and



Maybe I'm thinking of this wrong, but this seems to me like Snowbird identified that, _"Houston, we have a problem"_ with IKON, but their solution is to "buy off" their customers by making even more people IKON.  Instead of killing the zombies, make everyone a zombie.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

Yikes that k+ikon is expensive. $1400 early bird


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## sankaty (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Yikes that k+ikon is expensive. $1400 early bird



Yup.  To put that in perspective, that single pass costs about $300 more than my family of four pays total to ski unrestricted at Pico.

I realize it's more for more, but it's a lot more.  We'd be much better off paying a la carte for extra skiing.


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

Man 1400 for Killington does seem pretty rich.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

i'd have considered it if it was more like ~$1000. extra $350 for unlimited k/pico would allow me to log a shit ton of early and late season k days.


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## sankaty (Mar 5, 2020)

Another way to think of it, a Pico pass plus an Epic Local pass would be about $1150.  Much rather have that.  Then could add the K spring pass for $240 late in the season.

Or an Ikon Base plus an Epic NE: $1300


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## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Yikes that k+ikon is expensive. $1400 early bird





BenedictGomez said:


> Maybe I'm thinking of this wrong, but this seems to me like Snowbird identified that, _"Houston, we have a problem"_ with IKON, but their solution is to "buy off" their customers by making even more people IKON.  Instead of killing the zombies, make everyone a zombie.



Yes, as I predicted, Snowbird has rolled out some of their season pass options and there is a price increase for the regular season pass.  It is a modest $50 increase, but still an increase.  

https://www.snowbird.com/season-passes/

I also quoted the Killington comment because it appears that POWDR has decided to offer its passholders an option that includes the IKON Base pass apparently to soothe the angry masses.  Unlike Aspen or Jackson Hole though, folks who want this will have to pay for it.  

I say POWDR as the equivalent for Snowbird because they are now almost the same.  For those who did not see this, Snowbird was owned by Ian Cumming, the financier of POWDR and the father of POWDR's owner, John Cumming.  Ian died a few years ago and the "family" continued to run Snowbird as a separate entity from POWDR until this past year when John "stepped down" from POWDR and took over Snowbird.  So, unfortunately, we're now blessed with his presence and his [lack of] business acumen.  He's the guy who laid off an underling whose job was to renew a vital lease for Park City.  As I predicted, he could have cut back on IKON to reduce crowding in LCC and make passholders happy.  Jackson and Aspen did this pretty easily by adding a surcharge to IKON base.  Alta/Snowbird, in their infinite wisdom, did nothing.  Remember that Snowbird reported that they had a drop in passholders this season. So cutting back on IKON would make passholders happy and make the market reconsider buying Snowbird passes.  In the alternative, as I cynically predicted, he did nothing and increased pass prices.  

As to the "Superior" Pass at Snowbird, it includes a day at Woodward, a "guided" adventure at Snowbird (either cat skiing or something else), and an IKON base pass.  The catch--NO access to Alta.  :blink:  I really don't get that one nor see how that is going to be enforced since IKON base includes five Alta/Bird days.  

My wife told me about it last night as we were in bed and asked me, "who would buy that pass?"  Honestly, I don't know.  If anything, it is just another option that folks will look at and probably not purchase.  But it is lockstep with POWDR's resort offerings.    

No word on Alta/Bird pass options.  We have to wait until "May 1st" for some reason.  If I had to guess, Alta and Snowbird are still not playing nice.


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## skiur (Mar 5, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Yes, as I predicted, Snowbird has rolled out some of their season pass options and there is a price increase for the regular season pass.  It is a modest $50 increase, but still an increase.
> 
> https://www.snowbird.com/season-passes/
> 
> ...




I just dont see how they could offer alta with the snowbird pass, it would be a slap in the face to all the snowbird snowboarders who would not be able to use it.  What percentage of snowbird passholders do you think are boarders?  Has to be atleast 35%.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 5, 2020)

There is some connection between Ikon and Camelback now as Camelback offered an upgrade to get an Ikon pass for their Season Pass holders as a Black Friday deal last year. Made me hopeful they might be on Ikon this year, but they are not. So sticking with Epic ans skiing the Peak places when I don't want to go further than PA (from NJ)


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## thetrailboss (Mar 5, 2020)

skiur said:


> I just dont see how they could offer alta with the snowbird pass, it would be a slap in the face to all the snowbird snowboarders who would not be able to use it.  What percentage of snowbird passholders do you think are boarders?  Has to be atleast 35%.



FWIW since 2013 they have offered Snowbird Passholders a certain number of free days at Alta as part of the "Wasatch Benefits Program" as well as discounted days for passholders for quite some time.  So it's already been done...


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## machski (Mar 5, 2020)

Boyne just rolled out the SR NEP passes for 20/21.  Here they are:

Platinum (New) $1549 : Unlimited NEP Includes early skiing sundays, Boyne western benefits, an Ikon base pass and 50% off at Mountain Collective areas.

Gold $1169 : Basically the same as last year with the Boyne western resort benefits

Silver : $759 same

Bronze : $549 same

Nitro : $369 same

plus two new any 5 days passes at Loon/SR/SL, unrestricted for $369, blackouts for $299.

Love the new Platinum, gives me more than my NEP Gold + Ikon Base this year for less total $$. 

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## jg17 (Mar 5, 2020)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> There is some connection between Ikon and Camelback now as Camelback offered an upgrade to get an Ikon pass for their Season Pass holders as a Black Friday deal last year. Made me hopeful they might be on Ikon this year, but they are not. So sticking with Epic ans skiing the Peak places when I don't want to go further than PA (from NJ)



Camelback was bought in the last year by KSL Capital Partners, which is one of the major groups involved in Alterra (although Camelback is wholly owned by KSL, not Alterra). I'm surprised they're not part of Ikon.


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## Hawk (Mar 5, 2020)

I think the $1,549 is really high.  For $1,250 at Sugarbush we get a Non-restricted season pass, Full IKON pass, 12 tickets for Friends and family and early ups 7:30am Saturday, Sunday and all holidays and holiday weeks.  Now that is a bargain.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

That is nice, especially the early lift access

where do you see that? i dont see it on SB season pass page?

edit - is that just the ikon full pass price and details? wehere do you see early ups?

edit 2 - i see it. the early ups are an extra $350 on top of the $900 for the ikon full.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

You didn't think once the hook was set they wouldn't reel you in, did ya?


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## Hawk (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> That is nice, especially the early lift access
> 
> where do you see that? i dont see it on SB season pass page?
> 
> ...



Yup.  There you go.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

im prob gonna go with base + champlain valley again, and maybe a magic 4 pack. same as this year.

considered full ikon but i dont think it makes sense for me. also dont think aspen/jackson add on makes sense.

most likely will do WP/Copper again over X-mas, and probably shoot for Banff/Rev in feb or march.


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

Hawk said:


> I think the $1,549 is really high.  For $1,250 at Sugarbush we get a Non-restricted season pass, Full IKON pass, 12 tickets for Friends and family and early ups 7:30am Saturday, Sunday and all holidays and holiday weeks.  Now that is a bargain.



Early ups is probably my favorite thing in the world.


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## Hawk (Mar 5, 2020)

Are you there on Saturdays with us?  Do I know you?


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

No I live in Jackson, but just the concept in general of early ups is amazing if you have access to them IMO. On pow days it is the closest thing you'll get to heli skiing. 

I realize letting folks up early rubs some the wrong way, but once you get a taste it is hard to say they suck.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> prob gonna go with base + champlain valley again, and maybe a magic 4 pack. same as this year.



Def doing MyChamplainValley again. Definitely also an Indy Pass which gives me +2 Magic, Bolton, Berkshire, Catamount, Black Mt and whatever else. Ski Vermont 4 pack. Maybe a Warren Miller and a Ski+Ride Card. Then I'll ski Berkshire East as much as possible. I think my wife can get by next season on a 2nd Indy Pass, she loves Magic+Bolton and B-East is just too convenient.

Not a big adjustment but should be less going to waste and more skiing local (Berkshire East). I'm hoping to cut down the travel days while maintaining a good variety/pow-chasing potential.

Just hoping it's a better snow year so I don't sit and wait to use Magic and other passes hoping for snow.. but if my options are more limited I won't be sitting, I'll just go skiing

Still got 6 weeks or so on this season though so let's see how the late season push goes


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## TyWebb (Mar 5, 2020)

jg17 said:


> Camelback was bought in the last year by KSL Capital Partners, which is one of the major groups involved in Alterra (although Camelback is wholly owned by KSL, not Alterra). I'm surprised they're not part of Ikon.


Doesn't make sense to me.  IKON Base + $100 Discounted child (son 11) would be so great for me if I had a Pa mountain to go to ... epic is more $$$ but I get Jack Frost/ Big Boulder and Hunter that are doable for a day trip

Odd that IKON has no Catskill or Pocono/PA mountains to compete with EPIC


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## mbedle (Mar 5, 2020)

TyWebb said:


> Doesn't make sense to me.  IKON Base + $100 Discounted child (son 11) would be so great for me if I had a Pa mountain to go to ... epic is more $$$ but I get Jack Frost/ Big Boulder and Hunter that are doable for a day trip
> 
> Odd that IKON has no Catskill or Pocono/PA mountains to compete with EPIC



Not the same KSL, KSL Resorts owns Camelback. KSL Capital is the Alterra thing.


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## TyWebb (Mar 5, 2020)

mbedle said:


> Not the same KSL, KSL Resorts owns Camelback. KSL Capital is the Alterra thing.


Ahh and thanks for the clarity!  Still find it odd IKON didn't do something in the Catskill &/or Pocono market to compete


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

TyWebb said:


> Ahh and thanks for the clarity!  Still find it odd IKON didn't do something in the Catskill &/or Pocono market to compete



yea im surprised theres been no alterra plays made for windham, or even a partnership with the ORDA resorts (especially since they participated in the max pass). max pass was a dream.


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## boston_e (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Yikes that k+ikon is expensive. $1400 early bird



That includes Summer Bike Park, Golf Course and Adventure Center.

IF someone uses those benefits, it is a pretty great deal.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2020)

im not a golfer, but its unlimited free golf? that's pretty good.


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## boston_e (Mar 5, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> im not a golfer, but its unlimited free golf? that's pretty good.



Thats what it seems to say  yeah... "[FONT=&quot]The Beast 365 Pass includes unlimited winter lift access at Killington and Pico plus access to 37 additional ski destinations with an included [/FONT]​Ikon Base Pass[FONT=&quot], and unlimited summer access to the bike park, adventure center, scenic gondola rides, and golf course."

[/FONT]​I'm not much of a golfer either, but I would use the mountain biking in the summer, and my kids would use the adventure center.


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## Smellytele (Mar 5, 2020)

AAAGGGHHHH!
what to do? I am leaning NE epic as it gives me Wildcat and Stowe and locally Sunapee and the Crotch. Also it states 50% off at their western properties. I have to visit CO to check out Colleges with my son so that could come in handy. 

But Ikon would give me a few CO places like my favorite Abasin and could upgrade to JH as I may head out that way to hit Big Sky as well. Also unlimited Sugarbush would be nice as my son goes to school in VT and could get the college pass again. But nothing local to me and I would have to ski Loon in NH for 5 days which would kill me knowing Cannon was right up the road...

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!


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## AdironRider (Mar 5, 2020)

Epic. Jackson sucks tell your friends.


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## cdskier (Mar 5, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> Epic. Jackson sucks tell your friends.



Yes, Sugarbush sucks too. Everyone should buy Epic!


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## Smellytele (Mar 5, 2020)

AdironRider said:


> Epic. Jackson sucks tell your friends.


lol


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## asnowmobiler (Mar 5, 2020)

Leaning towards Epic, but it would be a great if it would be good for the rest of this season.


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## thebigo (Mar 6, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> AAAGGGHHHH!
> what to do? I am leaning NE epic as it gives me Wildcat and Stowe and locally Sunapee and the Crotch. Also it states 50% off at their western properties. I have to visit CO to check out Colleges with my son so that could come in handy.
> 
> But Ikon would give me a few CO places like my favorite Abasin and could upgrade to JH as I may head out that way to hit Big Sky as well. Also unlimited Sugarbush would be nice as my son goes to school in VT and could get the college pass again. But nothing local to me and I would have to ski Loon in NH for 5 days which would kill me knowing Cannon was right up the road...
> ...



How does it make sense to go new england epic if there is even a chance you will be in colorado, epic local is only a $130 premium.

In the same boat on ikon. Really wish there was another nh option other than loon. Older daughter will be on competitive mogul team next year which means weekends at sl and sr, really scared vail is going to screw up early season at cat which means buying sr or k walk up tickets and we usually buy k spring passes to cover april vacation/may. If only sugarbush would stay open for nh april vacation week the ikon numbers would work but I cannot tell the wife I need to buy two k spring passes next week, two ikon passes in a couple of weeks and four epic passes in a few months. From what I hear divorce is more expensive than the walk up rate.


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## Edd (Mar 6, 2020)

asnowmobiler said:


> Leaning towards Epic, but it would be a great if it would be good for the rest of this season.



It’s not? Surprising, I would have assumed the opposite.


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2020)

Edd said:


> It’s not? Surprising, I would have assumed the opposite.


Ikon is at certain places after certain dates but not epic


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## abc (Mar 6, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Only good at certain places and after certain dates.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


where? What’s the dates?


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2020)

abc said:


> where? What’s the dates?



Sorry I hadn’t had my coffee yet. Ikon not epic [emoji107]


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## skicub (Mar 6, 2020)

Is the NE bronze pass more expensive than it has been in years past? I haven’t bought since 2018, but 549 seems high considering all the other options in the neighborhood. 339 midweek NE-Epic seems like a great deal in comparison....


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2020)

thebigo said:


> How does it make sense to go new england epic if there is even a chance you will be in colorado, epic local is only a $130 premium.
> 
> In the same boat on ikon. Really wish there was another nh option other than loon. Older daughter will be on competitive mogul team next year which means weekends at sl and sr, really scared vail is going to screw up early season at cat which means buying sr or k walk up tickets and we usually buy k spring passes to cover april vacation/may. If only sugarbush would stay open for nh april vacation week the ikon numbers would work but I cannot tell the wife I need to buy two k spring passes next week, two ikon passes in a couple of weeks and four epic passes in a few months. From what I hear divorce is more expensive than the walk up rate.



Well if I am reading it right the NE pass does give you 

[FONT=&quot]Discount Tickets: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pass holders are also eligible for Advanced Lift Ticket rates at Vail, Beaver Creek and Whistler Blackcomb during blackout dates and 50% off window lift ticket rates at all other Vail Resorts owned and operated mountains. 

So it could save me a little out West. [/FONT]


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 6, 2020)

that $130 premium is 1 day at a Vail property out west.  I took my son out west while he was home over Christmas break.  we went 1/8-1/12 so no "holiday rates".  my "discount" 2 day buddy ticket for him at Breck cost me $254 and then it was another $118 with my ski with friends discount at Keystone.   I'd agree that if you think you're going to CO I'd just spend the $130 now, then you have more incentive to go to CO.


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## Zermatt (Mar 6, 2020)

Any idea how long the early pricing last for Ikon (and the discounted child passes)?

Epic really screws the younger age groups compared to Ikon. You know, the families that spend the most on the mountain.


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## urungus (Mar 6, 2020)

thebigo said:


> from what i hear divorce is more expensive than the walk up rate.



lol !!


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## prsboogie (Mar 6, 2020)

billo said:


> Any idea how long the early pricing last for Ikon (and the discounted child passes)?
> 
> Epic really screws the younger age groups compared to Ikon. You know, the families that spend the most on the mountain.


13-18 age group is really a big jump from the $379 in the 6-12 group

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## hovercraft (Mar 6, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Yes, Sugarbush sucks too. Everyone should buy Epic!


Buy Ikon much better mountains Sugarbush rocks, Stowe sucks......


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## machski (Mar 6, 2020)

skicub said:


> Is the NE bronze pass more expensive than it has been in years past? I haven’t bought since 2018, but 549 seems high considering all the other options in the neighborhood. 339 midweek NE-Epic seems like a great deal in comparison....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


All the NEP's went up again this year, and they all went up last year too.  Boyne has to pay for all the fancy new 8 seat chairs going in, doubt Doppelmayr is in the habit of giving those away!

An argument can definitely be made that Boyne's NEP is no longer competitively prices in the Northeast.  I'm locked as I own slopeside at SR and still consider it a good deal given length of season and western benefits at Boyne resorts.  But yeah, the Sugarbush crowd definitely made out better I'd say pass-wise.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Edd (Mar 6, 2020)

machski said:


> An argument can definitely be made that Boyne's NEP is no longer competitively prices in the Northeast.  I'm locked as I own slopeside at SR and still consider it a good deal given length of season and western benefits at Boyne resorts.  But yeah, the Sugarbush crowd definitely made out better I'd say pass-wise.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



It’s very situational, as you indicate. I’m getting an Epic Military Pass for next year at about $559. Its unrestricted access at all Vail properties in North America. 

Then, I’ve already bought a Cranmore/Bretton Woods Pass for next year at $525. Sun-Fri. 

To compare the value between these passes is laughable. But, I spend a lot of time in the MWV and my wife loves both of these hills. Both are pretty wind resistant and can be good when Wildcat isn’t so great. There’s always Attitash but I’m just not a big fan.


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## JimG. (Mar 6, 2020)

K 365 + Ikon base here I come!

An extra $400 for essentially unlimited access (I don't ski holidays much and I'm happy at K if I do) to Sugarbush and Stratton is a total no brainer for me.

The question is do I keep my NYS 3 in 1? If I don't this is a net savings for me, $400 additional if I keep it. 

Leaning towards keeping it at this point to me that's a stout NE lineup!!!


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## JimG. (Mar 6, 2020)

Wow getting better and better! Just realized I can get a limited NYS 3 in 1 for $599 instead of the regular $759 pass. No holidays but so what.

That's $160 saved towards the extra $400 for the Killington 365 pass. $240 for SB and Stratton unlimited except for holidays now is really a no brainer.


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## abc (Mar 6, 2020)

Have fun!


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Ikon base here I come!



What happened to megapasses being the root of all evil (and giving herpes)?


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## abc (Mar 7, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> What happened to megapasses being the root of all evil (and giving herpes)?


Surrender! (“if you can’t beat them, join them”)

Or, if you can’t solve the problem, be part of it?


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2020)

abc said:


> Surrender! (“if you can’t beat them, join them”)
> 
> Or, if you can’t solve the problem, be part of it?



It's getting lonely in the anti-pass crowd.


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## abc (Mar 7, 2020)

You can only tilt at windmill for so long, even if it’s in fact the product of the devil


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## jaybird (Mar 7, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Wow getting better and better! Just realized I can get a limited NYS 3 in 1 for $599 instead of the regular $759 pass. No holidays but so what.
> 
> That's $160 saved towards the extra $400 for the Killington 365 pass. $240 for SB and Stratton unlimited except for holidays now is really a no brainer.



The Beast is making it interesting with that Ikon add-in bundle. Too bad their golf course is so crappy.


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## Icecoastmatt (Mar 7, 2020)

hovercraft said:


> Buy Ikon much better mountains Sugarbush rocks, Stowe sucks......


Stowe suck? What in the world are you smoking?

19-20: 25 days


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2020)

Icecoastmatt said:


> Stowe suck? What in the world are you smoking?
> 
> 19-20: 25 days



He was being facetious, though ironically, Stowe does suck compared to 15 or 20 years ago.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 7, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's getting lonely in the anti-pass crowd.



Tell me about it.  I think that this pass craze is the "market disruption" in the ski industry that so many other industries have seen. Maybe I am wrong.


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## JimG. (Mar 7, 2020)

My total about face is for that good old pot stir.  

I'm a little amazed frankly, but I was serious about paying a premium for the Ikon add. Apparently I was not the only season passholder who felt the way I did, I would have to guess K fielded a ton of negative feedback from other passholders. And I'm going to guess that was relayed to Ikon. 

​With the $400 extra I will pay (or whatever) it's not just free either. But for someone who likes to ski in that general area I'm feeling pretty appreciated right now. K is going to take a hit on holidays when the base pass is blacked out elsewhere. So I will get the NYS 3 in 1 also and stay in NY during holidays.

I give K a lot of credit for listening and acting.


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## Bostonian (Mar 7, 2020)

Looking to end up doing the epic ne local pass plus gunstock again this year.


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## JimG. (Mar 7, 2020)

JimG. said:


> K is going to take a hit on holidays when the base pass is blacked out elsewhere. So I will get the NYS 3 in 1 also and stay in NY during holidays.



After reading more carefully the 5 days on the base Ikon are blacked out over holidays but the top tier Ikon pass gets 7 days unlimited at K and other eastern locations. No blackouts for the Ikon so that will spread crowds out.


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## hovercraft (Mar 8, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> He was being facetious, though ironically, Stowe does suck compared to 15 or 20 years ago.


Different mountain since Vail bought it, that’s for sure......


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