# Most Overrated and Underrated Ski Resorts in the east



## Slidebrook87 (Nov 25, 2019)

For this one I'll have to say Whiteface and Stowe for overrated and Sugarbush and Sugarloaf for underrated. I might even say Hunter is underrated. The terrain is good and you can avoid the crowds by riding the non-detachable lifts. What do you think?


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 25, 2019)

I would also say that Black Mountain New Hampshire is underrated.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 25, 2019)

Over/underrated by what measure? I can think of ski areas that are good for avoiding crowds. I like going to Bolton Valley to get 1st chair and mostly ride solo. I like Mad River Glen and Bromley for the same reason.


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## asnowmobiler (Nov 25, 2019)

Overrated means many things to many different people.
Without being specific I’m not sure how anybody could answer this question. Maybe some sort of Pole would be better?


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 25, 2019)

asnowmobiler said:


> Overrated means many things to many different people.
> Without being specific I’m not sure how anybody could answer this question. Maybe some sort of Pole would be better?



Overrated meaning a resort that may be ranked high in surveys, or by people you know. Essentially resorts that get a lot more praise than they should. This can be for anything. Terrain, snowmaking, lodging, etc.


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## asnowmobiler (Nov 25, 2019)

I feel snowbird is overrated because my fat ass can’t ski most of it. LOL

It is a world-class resort and I would never miss the opportunity to go there but it’s overrated for my abilities for all but a very small potion of the resort.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 25, 2019)

I'd also say Telluride and Deer Valley are. Head to a place like Squaw or Mammoth. Those are certainly underrated.


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2019)

Underrated in the East - Burke for sure

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## crazy (Nov 25, 2019)

*Underrated:* Bromley. Magic. Tenney. Whaleback. Lots of fantastic places under the radar. Middlebury and Dartmouth have pretty neat ski areas that are worth checking out.

*Overrated:* Tuckerman Ravine. The bowl is only 500 vertical feet. It's fun to ski, don't get me wrong, but 95% of people ski it in the spring and don't ski it in powder. Bowls are best skied with powder. The back bowls at Snowbird, the Beast of the West, are way steeper, longer, and more fun. I would much rather be at Snowbird than Mount Worthless. Snowbird also gets 2x the snow. Tuckerman Ravine would be a joke out west, it's only here in the east that people would worship it.

If you're not a baby and ready for big boy terrain, check out Mount Katahdin. That actually has some long, scary steep lines that would put many western lines to shame. It takes more than an hour and a half skin to get to Mount Katahdin, which keeps the weekend warriors and city folk out, thank god. Katahdin is like the Platty/Magic/Jay of the east, while Washington is like the Okemo/Stratton/Sunapee of the east.

Want to know where the best skiing is at Mount Washington? 1,000 miles west, actually, at Mount Washington in Vancouver Island!

_P.S. I'm totally kidding about Tuckerman Ravine. It's actually a lot of fun. If you're a seriously talented skier who has completed Avy Level 1, definitely check out Mount Katahdin._


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## jimk (Nov 25, 2019)

Sugarbush and Sugarloaf are pretty popular places to be considered under-rated.

Over and under-rated are such subjective terms.  You seem to equate under-rated with good places that get relatively small crowds, which kind of makes sense to me.
Maybe another way to ask the question is:  what areas in the East have the best combination of good terrain and low crowds?
Black Mtn, NH might be in the running for that for a small/mid size mtn with very small crowds.  I always thought Wildcat and Cannon were good for that too compared to the big, famous places in VT.  Smuggs might be a contender.  Maybe Sugarbush North would be a candidate too if you consider it without busier Sugarbush South?  When there's good natural snow, maybe Magic is a candidate?  I thought Saddleback was a really neat place considering it did not get as much traffic as many other ski areas in the East.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 25, 2019)

Over rated? Killington. 

Under rated? Plattekill


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## Not Sure (Nov 25, 2019)

crazy said:


> *Overrated:* Tuckerman Ravine. The bowl is only 500 vertical feet. It's fun to ski, don't get me wrong, but 95% of people ski it in the spring and don't ski it in powder. Bowls are best skied with powder.



Not really a fair comparison . There's a huge difference between conditions even when there is powder in Tuckerman . Fall in powder out west you won't take much effort to self arrest . Tuckerman powder is very unstable wind slab often and slides a heck of a lot . People don't ski it as much because there is no active avalanche control like at resorts. Yes the west is steeper and longer but a heck of a lot safer too. Lots of people have died on the the East Coast Mount Washington.


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## WWF-VT (Nov 25, 2019)

When did Tuckerman Ravine and Mt Kathadin become resorts?


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## Tonyr (Nov 25, 2019)

Slidebrook87 said:


> For this one I'll have to say Whiteface and Stowe for overrated and Sugarbush and Sugarloaf for underrated. I might even say Hunter is underrated. The terrain is good and you can avoid the crowds by riding the non-detachable lifts. What do you think?



I've never been to Whiteface but Stowe happens to be my family's favorite place to ski in the east. If you factor in lodging, restaurants, the ease of lapping Mt Mansfield from the four runner quad, and all the off the map glades it is tough to beat. I'd consider Stratton, Mt Snow, and Okemo overrated. All three are crowded, over groomed, and not very challenging. Sugarbush may have the best overall terrain in VT and is Alterra's new crown jewel in the east so it's hard for me to consider that resort underrated. Killington on the other hand gets a bad rap for its party vibe but I think the glades there are incredibly underrated. Dare I say that I prefer Killington's glades over Jay's?!

Tony


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## Los (Nov 25, 2019)

jimk said:


> Sugarbush and Sugarloaf are pretty popular places to be considered under-rated.
> Maybe another way to ask the question is:  what areas in the East have the best combination of good terrain and low crowds?
> Black Mtn, NH might be in the running for that for a small/mid size mtn with very small crowds.  I always thought Wildcat and Cannon were good for that too compared to the big, famous places in VT.  Smuggs might be a contender.  Maybe Sugarbush North would be a candidate too if you consider it without busier Sugarbush South?  When there's good natural snow, maybe Magic is a candidate?



good rephrasing and good choices -- Black, Wildcat, Mt. Ellen, Magic, and Cannon (but only if limited to Mittersill. The main mountain seems to gets pretty crowded on a regular basis...) I'd also add Bolton Valley and Whaleback... And if I ever get to ski Dartmouth and Middlebury when they actually have decent coverage, I'm sure I'll add them to the list...


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 25, 2019)

WWF-VT said:


> *When did Tuckerman Ravine and Mt Kathadin become resorts?*



Roughly the same time Snowbird, Deer Valley, Telluride, Squaw & Mammoth all teleported to the east.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 25, 2019)

*OVERRATED*

Sugarbush
Whiteface
Windham


*UNDERRATED*

Gore
Magic Mountain
Plattekill
Smuggler's Notch


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Nov 25, 2019)

Lol, this thread. Overrated is any place that ppl on forums swear is underrated but then when you go there you're disappointed because it didnt meet your inflated expectations.[emoji38]


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 26, 2019)

Tonyr said:


> I've never been to Whiteface but Stowe happens to be my family's favorite place to ski in the east. If you factor in lodging, restaurants, the ease of lapping Mt Mansfield from the four runner quad, and all the off the map glades it is tough to beat. I'd consider Stratton, Mt Snow, and Okemo overrated. All three are crowded, over groomed, and not very challenging. Sugarbush may have the best overall terrain in VT and is Alterra's new crown jewel in the east so it's hard for me to consider that resort underrated. Killington on the other hand gets a bad rap for its party vibe but I think the glades there are incredibly underrated. Dare I say that I prefer Killington's glades over Jay's?!
> 
> Tony


I would argue that Stratton, Okemo, and Mt. Snow aren't overrated or underrated. They generally attract families looking for a good all-around mountain to be at. The people who ski there are usually wealthy and have kids in ski racing programs. I don't think that anybody thinks any of the mentioned resorts are amazing, but they're not awful either. In terms of awful places, I was not very impressed with Mt. Peter NY, Whiteface, and Bretton Woods, but hey, it's skiing.


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## patroller_sam (Nov 26, 2019)

Overrated: Mount Snow, Killington
Underrated: Sugarbush, Magic

Change my mind.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 26, 2019)

patroller_sam said:


> Overrated: Mount Snow, Killington
> Underrated: Sugarbush, Magic
> 
> Change my mind.



I agree, although Killington looks pretty epic. I’d love to ski there some day.


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2019)

Lot's of Killingto hate here...it's not the same place as it was in the 90s and early 00s with 1 million+ skier visits.  Also they've taken away a lot of the criss-crossing trails and reduced intersections.

I will admit, you need a dozen+ days to learn "how" to ski there.  Huuuuge variations of terrain depending on wind, elevation, and sun exposure.  Seriously it can be night and day at Bear vs the Canyon.  Also your first dozen days will be spent traversing lol...that reputation is real...but again that goes away once you learn "how" to ski it.


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Lot's of Killingto hate here...it's not the same place as it was in the 90s and early 00s with 1 million+ skier visits.  Also they've taken away a lot of the criss-crossing trails and reduced intersections.
> 
> I will admit, you need a dozen+ days to learn "how" to ski there.  Huuuuge variations of terrain depending on wind, elevation, and sun exposure.  Seriously it can be night and day at Bear vs the Canyon.  Also your first dozen days will be spent traversing lol...that reputation is real...but again that goes away once you learn "how" to ski it.



Agree 100%!

Killington certainly takes a while to "learn" and when one does that, they can find just about anything they're looking for. It's far more than just the North Ridge early season and Superstar late season that many essentially only use it for


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 26, 2019)

I’d love to go there and “learn the mountain”, but everybody in my family hates it...


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## skiur (Nov 26, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Agree 100%!
> 
> Killington certainly takes a while to "learn" and when one does that, they can find just about anything they're looking for. It's far more than just the North Ridge early season and Superstar late season that many essentially only use it for




This is exactly why I made K my home mountain, no place else in the east with the variety that K does and that is talking about the on map stuff, once you learn the off map stuff its pretty endless.  I couldnt ski any other resort in the east 30+ days a year.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

:lol: the only way this works is if we agree on a preexisting set of ratings.

"I thought most people thought Killington kicks ass"
"Huh I thought most people agree Killington sucks"

If we are going based on skier visits, it would be impossible to say as the #1 ranked Eastern resort that Killington is "overrated". It's got the highest rating of anyone!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 26, 2019)

Overrated and Underrated by whom?

Everyone has different tastes.  

Wildcat is my favorite place to ski in New England.  For many people it wouldn't make their top ten. Killington is the most popular ski area in New England and it doesn't make my top ten. 

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## ScottySkis (Nov 26, 2019)

Roxbury NY hate the hill in that town lol


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> :lol: the only way this works is if we agree on a preexisting set of ratings.
> 
> "I thought most people thought Killington kicks ass"
> "Huh I thought most people agree Killington sucks"
> ...



Killington is like Apple...you're a huge fan or will never step foot on the premises.  

I love it for the endless variety and "weather-proofing" it has.  By that I mean it's nearly impossible for the whole resort to be on windhold, or boilerplate, or any of the other sh!t we have to deal with on the East Coast.  

Last year that was a snowstorm in March I believe.  Killington got a decent dump maybe 8"-12".  Sugarbush got something stupid like 24"+.  I was at K and there was a stiff wind but nothing affected operations too much (maybe a lift or two went on windhold, I don't remember).  At SB apparently they had essentially everything shutdown and crazy waits for a couple lifts that were open.  Don't quote me but I remember reading on here waits longer than 30 minutes.  

If all of Killington goes on windhold you've got bigger issues than your ski day being ruined lol.  Same with Bretton Woods.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Killington is like Apple...you're a huge fan or will never step foot on the premises.
> 
> I love it for the endless variety and "weather-proofing" it has.  By that I mean it's nearly impossible for the whole resort to be on windhold, or boilerplate, or any of the other sh!t we have to deal with on the East Coast.
> 
> ...



I love it on weekdays for being able to ski different trails on a whim in totally different directions and not have to ski the same thing twice. Works for me on hardpack/groomer days as well, as you said, some trails are bound to be good anyway. The woods stay sheltered enough that they ski well with enough base. Also Killington has just about more skiable woods than anyone in the East except probably Sugarloaf. Jay would be close but their terrain is a little different. There is pretty good variety of woods too and it would take someone quite a few trips to learn them all.

On weekends I've crossed it off my list of viable places to go and actually enjoy myself. Skiing is not a sport I engage in particularly for extraordinary proximity to humans. I enjoy the occasional conversation on a chair lift, but that's about as much people as I want to see.

On slow weekdays there are few places you get as much terrain to yourself as Killington. If conditions are mediocre they groom over the whole resort, nobody shows up, and you can ski from K peak to Bear Mt / Needles Eye base really putting on the speed.


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> I love it on weekdays for being able to ski different trails on a whim in totally different directions and not have to ski the same thing twice. Works for me on hardpack/groomer days as well, as you said, some trails are bound to be good anyway. The woods stay sheltered enough that they ski well with enough base. Also Killington has just about more skiable woods than anyone in the East except probably Sugarloaf. Jay would be close but their terrain is a little different. There is pretty good variety of woods too and it would take someone quite a few trips to learn them all.
> 
> On weekends I've crossed it off my list of viable places to go and actually enjoy myself. Skiing is not a sport I engage in particularly for extraordinary proximity to humans. I enjoy the occasional conversation on a chair lift, but that's about as much people as I want to see.
> 
> On slow weekdays there are few places you get as much terrain to yourself as Killington. If conditions are mediocre they groom over the whole resort, nobody shows up, and you can ski from K peak to Bear Mt / Needles Eye base really putting on the speed.



Yeah they run more lifts than just about anyone in the Northeast midweek and you can absolutely spread out.  Weekends I won't touch December-mid March.


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## abc (Nov 26, 2019)

Slidebrook87 said:


> In terms of awful places, I was not very impressed with Mt. Peter NY, Whiteface, and Bretton Woods, but hey, it's skiing.


I happen to LOVE that "awful" Bretton Woods!

It's a family place just like Okemo/Stratton. It's great for that audience. There're tons of woods ranging from tame for the little ones to just giggle their way through (you can actually hear the giggle from adjacent trails!), or tighter one for Mom or Dad to enjoy once the little ones are tired. It's not crazy busy like Okemo/Stratton either. Best of all, it's got its own snow machine made by the weather god. 

I'd consider BW *underrated *if Okemo and Stratton is "appropriately rated".  

The only thing it doesn't have? Heart stopping steeps for those who's idea of skiing is limited to such. 

It's a long way for me to get to. But I had excellent days when I went. 

I too would rate Whiteface as "overrated". Primarily because I was lured there on the reputation. But so far, I haven't really found anything particularly special about the mountain. 

The village of Lake Placid, on the other hand, is lovely. (and that's the only reason I've gone back despite not having much success on the skiing part. Though nowadays, I also bring my cross country skis when I go up there)


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

BW > Stratton or Okemo any day of the week. BW has more and better tree skiing and it's the #1 mountain in the East for lengthy low angle groomers. Stratton and Okemo just don't have the location to fully compare.

I'm also not familiar with crowds at BW that could come close to Okemo or Stratton mob scene.

Whiteface is overrated unless the Slides are open (which I've never skied). There is very little tree skiing otherwise and what they have isn't always open. Whiteface is for steep hard packed groomers, and I've come to appreciate that. It's hardcore Eastern skiing but basically taking a time capsule back 20+ years. Hope to ski Slides eventually though!


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## kingslug (Nov 26, 2019)

Tough to over/under rate a place. Depends on what YOU like. I'll never ski Stratton any more but it does exactly what it sets out to do for people looking for that experience. 
Now Magic is truly under rated but you have to want that type of experience. People who go to Stratton all the time would not go there and vice versa.


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Tough to over/under rate a place. Depends on what YOU like. I'll never ski Stratton any more but it does exactly what it sets out to do for people looking for that experience.
> Now Magic is truly under rated but you have to want that type of experience. People who go to Stratton all the time would not go there and vice versa.



There was a great line from Magic's GM, Geoff Hathaway, on the Storm Skiing Podcast where (paraphrasing here on my part) he essentially said that there are some people that will never ski Magic because it doesn't have (and apparently at least under his tenure there absolutely no plans EVER to have one there) a high speed quad, which he then followed up by saying, that they were totally fine with those folks never coming to try out Magic! :lol:


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

Magic is in a nice position where more parking and uphill capacity (and snowmaking to extend season) are the priority. That says their product is in demand. Not a bad location either to peel of NoVT skiers on snow days.


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## kingslug (Nov 26, 2019)

I have to hit Magic again..


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## Tonyr (Nov 26, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Killington is like Apple...you're a huge fan or will never step foot on the premises.
> 
> I love it for the endless variety and "weather-proofing" it has.  By that I mean it's nearly impossible for the whole resort to be on windhold, or boilerplate, or any of the other sh!t we have to deal with on the East Coast.
> 
> ...



I was lucky enough to be at Sugarbush the weekend in March last year when they got 2 feet of snow. The waits were long on that Saturday and Sunday but it wasn't due to wind holds. There was an accident on the road that wiped out all power on Mt Ellen so everyone who missed Friday all came Saturday to Lincoln peak. Then Sunday everyone went to Mt Ellen to hit the untouched snow from the day before. It was really just bad luck, I was glad to be there on Friday though.

Tony


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2019)

I'm gonna shout-out Catamount for underrated.  You can search my post history for depth but to summarize they don't groom everything flat like their competition (Jiminy Peak, Mohawk, Butternut).  Trails ski much longer than 1,000ft vertical.  Catapult is legitimately steep and typically bumped up.  

With a whole bunch of new terrain this year and gradual improvements over the last decade they've slowly become as-large if not larger than Jiminy Peak and Berkshire East.


Oh and Berkshire East is overrated.  The bike trails, glades, and natural trails are fun but much much much better skiing at Magic or Mount Snow is available 30-45 minutes away.  And their claim for 1,100 vertical feet is a total lie it's 900.


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## FBGM (Nov 26, 2019)

Looks like some people failed 5th grade geography.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

ss20 said:


> I'm gonna shout-out Catamount for underrated.



Never skied there but I'm a little motivated to check it out. I have a hard time believing it skis bigger than Jiminy or B-East but I'd like to find out if it does!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Never skied there but I'm a little motivated to check it out. I have a hard time believing it skis bigger than Jiminy or B-East but I'd like to find out if it does!



I skied Catamount about 10 times and b eeast once
I liked Catamount more
And have not skiing Catamount in 3 or 5 years


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## abc (Nov 26, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Looks like some people failed 5th grade geography.


I don't know where you're coming from. But Berkshire East is not easy to get to for many people. 

I never skied there because of that. But I go there in the summer a lot. I just can't see driving there in the winter. I definitely prefer Mount Snow given the terrain and vertical there. 

I'll make a sacrilege statement to say Magic is overrated. Its location means it doesn't often get the kind of snow its reputation rely on. And when the condition is occasionally right on, the lines are intolerable. 

I much prefer Plattekill. Even though it's further south (closer to NYC), and don't have as much terrain (size/vertical) or even snow, what it has skis well. The main thing is, there's no crowd! 

But as I write it, I can see what makes some place over or under rated. It's really what one compares it to. If Plattekill isn't here (or further away from where I live), I think I'd like Magic more.


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## mister moose (Nov 26, 2019)

ss20 said:


> I'm gonna shout-out Catamount for underrated.  You can search my post history for depth but to summarize they don't groom everything flat like their competition (Jiminy Peak, Mohawk, Butternut).  Trails ski much longer than 1,000ft vertical.  Catapult is legitimately steep and typically bumped up.


​Catamount has some good variety, and yes Catapult is legit steep for Mass (for about 4 turns).  It's well south of Jimminy, so much closer.  For the Berkshires it would be my first pick too.  Butternut is awesome for light blue intermediates.

Berkshire East has the price of the drive on Rte 2 in from 91.  You might as well go to Mt Snow and have far better terrain and conditions.

Most underrated Blanford.  Decent sized smallish, skiable, off the radar.  




abc said:


> I don't know where you're coming from. But Berkshire East is not easy to get to for many people.
> 
> I'll make a sacrilege statement to say Magic is overrated. Its location means it doesn't often get the kind of snow its reputation rely on. And when the condition is occasionally right on, the lines are intolerable.



So your complaint is that you're not willing to wait for good (ie better than rapidly skied out alternatives) skiing on a powder day?


Most over rated run at Killington:  OL  Usually ice bumps, and only half width at that since they don't blow it full width.  Sure, it's good a few days a year.


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## abc (Nov 26, 2019)

mister moose said:


> So your complaint is that you're not willing to wait for good (ie better than rapidly skied out alternatives) skiing on a powder day?


Not if I have other options that are as good without the wait.

The "goods" of Magic, according to the opinion here, are the glades. Glades are rarely "rapidly skied out" in any mountain, even the busy mega resorts. There simply isn't enough people skiing the glades. Further more, glades tend to have million lines in a small patch, so traffic doesn't have as much impact as on groomers. 

I will stand in lines for ages to ski open powder runs, if the slow lift means few others are able to get on it before me. But there's no point in standing in lines for ages to ski glades.

Like I said, over or under rated depends on what to compare to. Plattekill have equally low lift capacity, but without the crowd to make the line. So snow stays good for a decent while, and I don't have to wait much. In comparison, Magic seems overrated.


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## EPB (Nov 26, 2019)

Jay Peak. 

In full disclosure, I love the place, but if you follow Ski The East, they're are a lot of fan boy/girls that act like it's a transcendent eastern skiing experience. I think it's very good (about 4th-7th in the east IMO), but not a clear cut #1 like I hear quite a bit over there.

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## mister moose (Nov 26, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> Jay Peak.


When it's good, it's vewy, vewy good.  
When it's bad, it's vewy, vewy bad.

Choose wisely.


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## Killingtime (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> :lol: the only way this works is if we agree on a preexisting set of ratings.
> 
> "I thought most people thought Killington kicks ass"
> "Huh I thought most people agree Killington sucks"
> ...



I've done 30+days at K for the last 13 years. It's a great mountain with terrain that will put most other east coast resorts to shame. Just have to know how to navigate the crowds. Since I just sold my home there, I'll be branching out a lot this season. It will be interesting and I hope not too disappointing. Looking forward to NH though. Other than Loon, haven't spent much time there.


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## Zand (Nov 26, 2019)

mister moose said:


> When it's good, it's vewy, vewy good.
> When it's bad, it's vewy, vewy bad.
> 
> Choose wisely.



I think the biggest key for Jay is that it can be very very good while everyone else is mediocre.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

Zand said:


> I think the biggest key for Jay is that it can be very very good while everyone else is mediocre.



That goes for December powder days with 100% mountain open as well as April spring skiing with 100% mountain open.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

Giving Jiminy Peak an "Underrrated" mention...

1. Nobody here seems excited to ever ski it
2. They make snow and open trails almost as quick as Mount Snow and quickly provide options down the hill (good early season game)
3. They have a few trails that are legit steep down the front, and often a little icy/skied off. Few would say their terrain lacks any challenge. These trails also go straight down almost full vertical drop.
4. Late season game is pretty good for Massachusetts.

Based on how crowded it gets and their parking lots I wouldn't say it's Underrated though.

I also have a hard time believing Catamount has steep trails that compare to Jericho, Whitetail, and a few others at Jiminy. If they do it must be much shorter vertical. Or AM I WRONG?


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## Tonyr (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> That goes for December powder days with 100% mountain open as well as April spring skiing with 100% mountain open.



I was at Jay last year within the last week of April and 80% of the mountain was open. 3 days beforehand they were 100% open which is pretty incredible for that late in the season especially when you take into account that the mountain is half the elevation of the majority of resorts out west.


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## hub8 (Nov 26, 2019)

abc said:


> I don't know where you're coming from. But Berkshire East is not easy to get to for many people.
> 
> I never skied there because of that. But I go there in the summer a lot. I just can't see driving there in the winter. I definitely prefer Mount Snow given the terrain and vertical there.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the comparison.  Very helpful for someone like me that loves Plattekill after a dump, but has never been to Magic.


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## hub8 (Nov 26, 2019)

Tonyr said:


> I was lucky enough to be at Sugarbush the weekend in March last year when they got 2 feet of snow. The waits were long on that Saturday and Sunday but it wasn't due to wind holds. There was an accident on the road that wiped out all power on Mt Ellen so everyone who missed Friday all came Saturday to Lincoln peak. Then Sunday everyone went to Mt Ellen to hit the untouched snow from the day before. It was really just bad luck, I was glad to be there on Friday though.
> 
> Tony



My son and I were at LP on that Friday and ME on Saturday.  ss20 was kinda right, the only lift open at ME was Sunshine.  We were praying for Inverness to open the whole day, as it didn't look that bad.  Well, I am agnostic now.  MRG from what I heard had atrocious line too.

It is good to know that Killington didn't have any wind holds, but I imagine the given the difference in forecast for snowfall, I will probably repeat the same mistake next time.


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Giving Jiminy Peak an "Underrrated" mention...
> 
> 1. Nobody here seems excited to ever ski it
> 2. They make snow and open trails almost as quick as Mount Snow and quickly provide options down the hill (good early season game)
> ...



I never liked Jiminy because it's groomed flat on 100% of their stuff.  The Frontside stuff is steep but all skis the same.  If you're a Carvaholic that wants to rack up 8,000 vertical feet an hour, it's heaven midweek.  5 minutes up, 2 minutes down.  1,100 vertical feet.  Rinse and repeat til you're up to 50k ft at 2:30.  

I won't say with certainty Catapult is as steep as Jericho but it's pretty darn close if it isn't.  It's steeper than Whitetail or Whirlaway or any of the other single-blacks on the frontside.  Roughly 500-600 vertical foot drop sustained at-pitch.  They have cut two more double diamonds this year, one of them parallel to Catapult which if my i-spying from the chairlift eyes are correct will be steeper than Catapult.  I hope one of them is dedicated to bumps December-March no groom.


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## Smellytele (Nov 26, 2019)

abc said:


> Not if I have other options that are as good without the wait.
> 
> The "goods" of Magic, according to the opinion here, are the glades. Glades are rarely "rapidly skied out" in any mountain, even the busy mega resorts. There simply isn't enough people skiing the glades. Further more, glades tend to have million lines in a small patch, so traffic doesn't have as much impact as on groomers.
> 
> ...



I have skied many glades that were skied out. Single line glades can be sketchy after only a few skiers. 
As for Magic I wouldn’t say overrated as everyone knows when it has the goods and doesn’t. 
I do have some “friends” who hate it but they also love Bretton Woods and Okemo. 

It really comes down to what kind of skiing you like, crowd tolerance and clientele tolerance.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## raisingarizona (Nov 26, 2019)

abc said:


> Not if I have other options that are as good without the wait.
> 
> The "goods" of Magic, according to the opinion here, are the glades. Glades are rarely "rapidly skied out" in any mountain, even the busy mega resorts. There simply isn't enough people skiing the glades. Further more, glades tend to have million lines in a small patch, so traffic doesn't have as much impact as on groomers.
> 
> ...



I’m pretty sure the listed average annual snow fall is more at Plattekill than Magic. I think by 25 inches or so.


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## abc (Nov 26, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> I
> It really comes down to what kind of skiing you like, crowd tolerance and *clientele toleranc*e.


I confess never noticed who else were there, wherever I skied. 

I noticed the numbers alright, but not who they are.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 26, 2019)

hub8 said:


> My son and I were at LP on that Friday and ME on Saturday.  ss20 was kinda right, the only lift open at ME was Sunshine.  We were praying for Inverness to open the whole day, as it didn't look that bad.  Well, I am agnostic now.  MRG from what I heard had atrocious line too.
> 
> It is good to know that Killington didn't have any wind holds, but I imagine the given the difference in forecast for snowfall, I will probably repeat the same mistake next time.



mad river didnt run the single that day, and the double was delayed if i recall correctly. it was pretty easy to ski from the double and then hike up to the midstation of the single and beyond, but not many people were doing it. unreal untracked powder skiing that day, tho a little dense that snow was.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 26, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> mad river didnt run the single that day, and the double was delayed if i recall correctly. it was pretty easy to ski from the double and then hike up to the midstation of the single and beyond, but not many people were doing it. unreal untracked powder skiing that day, tho a little dense that snow was.



I miss that place. The terrain below mid station under the single is so much fun. I have very fond memories of my last two winters out east spending many weekends skiing at MRG and Plattekill. Those were the winters of 93 and 94. There was a lot of snow those years.


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## Zand (Nov 26, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> That goes for December powder days with 100% mountain open as well as April spring skiing with 100% mountain open.



Yes that, but I was thinking more of those days after an inland coastal. While every other ski area in the east is running snowguns trying to cover their iced over groomers to make them skiable again, Jay is reeling in 30" from the upslope behind the storm (in which case you stay far away from the groomers and stick to the woods).


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 26, 2019)

I could see a first time Jay Peak tree skier thinking it's underrated, and a first time Jay Peak groomer skier thinking it's overrated.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 26, 2019)

I skied at Jay once and the snow was noticeably deeper than everywhere else. That was in 93 and their glades I skied were really well maintained and flowy. I do think I remember a long runout. 

So what eastern mountains have the most quality vertical with little runout? MRG has pretty good pitch if I remember correctly and Plattekill sure has the quality over quantity. Stowe was good I think. 

What’s the best powder skiing hill in your opinion and what qualities do you want for powder days?


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## JimG. (Nov 26, 2019)

raisingarizona said:


> I skied at Jay once and the snow was noticeably deeper than everywhere else. That was in 93 and their glades I skied were really well maintained and flowy. I do think I remember a long runout.
> 
> So what eastern mountains have the most quality vertical with little runout? MRG has pretty good pitch if I remember correctly.



Wildcat has sustained steeps 2000' vertical top to base of lift.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 26, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Wildcat has sustained steeps 2000' vertical top to lift line.



And a fast ride back up, it seems to have a small , loyal cult like following. That’s dope.


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## JimG. (Nov 26, 2019)

raisingarizona said:


> And a fast ride back up, it seems to have a small , loyal cult like following. That’s dope.



Great place to ski and the views at the top are unparalleled in the east. Wish it wasn't 5 1/2 hrs. each way from home.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 26, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Great place to ski and the views at the top are unparalleled in the east. Wish it wasn't 5 1/2 hrs. each way from home.



Do you think it’s more classic than Cannon Jim?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 26, 2019)

raisingarizona said:


> I skied at Jay once and the snow was noticeably deeper than everywhere else. That was in 93 and their glades I skied were really well maintained and flowy. I do think I remember a long runout.
> 
> So what eastern mountains have the most quality vertical with little runout? MRG has pretty good pitch if I remember correctly and Plattekill sure has the quality over quantity. Stowe was good I think.
> 
> What’s the best powder skiing hill in your opinion and what qualities do you want for powder days?


Wildcat and Cannon on the Tramside are probably the two best in New England for consistent 2k vertical skiing with no run out.  Smuggs off Madonna rates highly in that regard as well though the lift sucks.  Stowe and MRG as you've mentioned.  Sugarbush and Sugarloaf have more overall vertical than the above listed, but a lot more run out and require multiple lifts to ski it. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JimG. (Nov 26, 2019)

raisingarizona said:


> Do you think it’s more classic than Cannon Jim?



I have been to Cannon for one 3 day weekend in my ski life and conditions were not great. I do like the big vertical but old school vibe at Wildcat a little better and I know the mountain better. But with a small Cannon sample size it would be a little unfair to rate the two. I want to get back to Cannon just don't know when.


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## Zand (Nov 26, 2019)

JimG. said:


> I have been to Cannon for one 3 day weekend in my ski life and conditions were not great. I do like the big vertical but old school vibe at Wildcat a little better and I know the mountain better. But with a small Cannon sample size it would be a little unfair to rate the two. I want to get back to Cannon just don't know when.



Cannon is almost like Jay without the snow. Good glades when the snow is good. Kinsman is the best glade in New England. Groomers and overall intermediate experience are both pretty bad. Front 5 can be fun. Mittersill adds a fun alternative although I haven't been paying attention to what they've done to it the past few years. It was cool when they put the double in and pretty much said have at it without clearing anything.

If the snow is good, it's a great place. Old school vibe but still gets crowds as access from Boston is easy. If it hasn't snowed, don't bother (as you found out).


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## abc (Nov 26, 2019)

Most underrated mountain: wherever you are after a storm. 

Most overrated mountain: wherever you are after a thaw-freeze cycle.


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## Zand (Nov 26, 2019)

To me, the most overrated is Stowe. Not to say it sucks, I always enjoy it when I go. I've also never been given a proper sidecountry tour which I think would enhance my experience. Love the inbounds woods off FourRunner. But other than that, IDK. I've never been there and not seen the groomers be complete boilerplate early, whether it be Nosedive, Liftline, National, Hayride, or even the stuff off the gondola. Every time I've gone over to Spruce, I find myself wanting to go back after two runs. Heart Attack Hill sucks.

This one will piss people off, but I'd also put in Mt Ellen as overrated. Always seems much colder and icier than South. North Ridge is the only lift worth skiing over there. Sure, there's no crowds but that's the only thing that is better than South. Speaking of crowds, I've never waited in a line at Heaven's Gate or Valley House and both have tremendous terrain. 


Underrated, based on how it's talked about here I'd have to go with Sunday River. Was up there on a holiday weekend last year and hardly waited in a lift line except at South Ridge. Lots of room to spread out. Great glades off each lift, cool liftline trails, and fun groomers. Also, Smuggs. Wouldn't go near it on a weekend, but I always find that the doubles ae an appropriate ride time because you have to ski a lot of the terrain pretty damn hard and need that rest.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 27, 2019)

Zand said:


> To me, the most overrated is Stowe. Not to say it sucks, I always enjoy it when I go. I've also never been given a proper sidecountry tour which I think would enhance my experience. Love the inbounds woods off FourRunner. But other than that, IDK. I've never been there and not seen the groomers be complete boilerplate early, whether it be Nosedive, Liftline, National, Hayride, or even the stuff off the gondola. Every time I've gone over to Spruce, I find myself wanting to go back after two runs. Heart Attack Hill sucks.
> 
> This one will piss people off, but I'd also put in Mt Ellen as overrated. Always seems much colder and icier than South. North Ridge is the only lift worth skiing over there. Sure, there's no crowds but that's the only thing that is better than South. Speaking of crowds, I've never waited in a line at Heaven's Gate or Valley House and both have tremendous terrain.
> 
> ...



I agree with you. I have gone there a few times. It is very nice, but it is praised much more than it should be. The village and Spruce Peak development is unrivaled, and I love the terrain at Spruce Peak. The weakest comes when you start to ski Mansfield. The trails are rather bland aside from trails like Goat. Toll House needs to be expanded and developed (if Vail can actually invest in Stowe...). They have capacity issues too. Just not all that great in my opinion. Go to Sugarbush instead. My two favorite trails are at Mt. Ellen, and I love to be able to ski two large mountains as one (with Slidebrook). I like both of the mountains and really appreciate the option. If Sugarbush was just South, I don't think it would be as good as we know it as today.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 27, 2019)

To each their own, but I think Stowe is the best combination of terrain and snow (man-made + natural combination) in the East.  Two 2k vertical lifts, classic long bump runs like Goat, Starr, Lookout and Chin Clip.  However if you don't know their massive side country terrain on both sides of the notch and their easily accessible hike to terrain, then you might not get the same impression of the place.  It's also nowhere I want to be on a weekend.  But on a midweek powder day?  Stowe and Sugarloaf would be my top two picks in the East. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## EPB (Nov 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> To each their own, but I think Stowe is the best combination of terrain and snow (man-made + natural combination) in the East.  Two 2k vertical lifts, classic long bump runs like Goat, Starr, Lookout and Chin Clip.  However if you don't know their massive side country terrain on both sides of the notch and their easily accessible hike to terrain, then you might not get the same impression of the place.  It's also nowhere I want to be on a weekend.  But on a midweek powder day?  Stowe and Sugarloaf would be my top two picks in the East.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


I endorse this 100%. 

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## raisingarizona (Nov 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> To each their own, but I think Stowe is the best combination of terrain and snow (man-made + natural combination) in the East.  Two 2k vertical lifts, classic long bump runs like Goat, Starr, Lookout and Chin Clip.  However if you don't know their massive side country terrain on both sides of the notch and their easily accessible hike to terrain, then you might not get the same impression of the place.  It's also nowhere I want to be on a weekend.  But on a midweek powder day?  Stowe and Sugarloaf would be my top two picks in the East.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



I agree 110%. The runs are long and uninterrupted by annoying traverses and intersections making for good powder skiing. The mountain has flow. 

Imho it’s the quintessential New England ski area and town. 

The side country skiing puts it over the top and in between most ski runs there be hidden treasures.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 27, 2019)

zand it always seems that we tend to ski pretty similar stuff at a pretty similar level. if you haven't skied the sidecountry at stowe you can't really say it is overrated. for strong skiers, the sidecountry and off-map woods at stowe are the whole point. go and check it out.


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## kingslug (Nov 27, 2019)

I've skied Stowe for 2 seasons now and there is a ton of undiscovered terrain there..and since I'm not the most daring tree skier..that will remain. But it does leave the possibility for me to never get bored exploring the trees and side country. Its like Jay..you can stay on the trails and have an OK experience but the trees are the hidden gold. I even met a very experienced tree skier who is more than happy to drag me around in there..and has..but I'm not up to his ability and have gotten way over my head a few times..but thats a good thing as I will never get bored there. 
People complain that is really only has 1 good lift and the gondi..but once up there you have a lot of options.


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## Tonyr (Nov 27, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> zand it always seems that we tend to ski pretty similar stuff at a pretty similar level. if you haven't skied the sidecountry at stowe you can't really say it is overrated. for strong skiers, the sidecountry and off-map woods at stowe are the whole point. go and check it out.



It's not a big deal to me as the side country at Stowe is a tracked out open secret anyway but I can post a link to a map of all of Stowe's well known side country if it's ok with the administrators here. So many people know about those areas already that it's kind of ridiculous that the runs aren't just added to the official trail map.

Tony


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## deadheadskier (Nov 27, 2019)

Tonyr said:


> It's not a big deal to me as the side country at Stowe is a tracked out open secret anyway but I can post a link to a map of all of Stowe's well known side country if it's ok with the administrators here. So many people know about those areas already that it's kind of ridiculous that the runs aren't just added to the official trail map.
> 
> Tony


We don't have specific rules, but my general feeling is that such beta should only be shared via private message.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 27, 2019)

i know and have skied most of those zones, but i'd be happy to receive your map by PM if you dont mind

DHS shared some sweet stowe intel via PM to me a few years back which is what allowed me to branch out a bit without a guide. thanks for that bud


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## kingslug (Nov 27, 2019)

I think I'll look into a guide. Stowe Adventure Guides looks promising. I really need to get better in the woods. Eastern woods..I seem to do well everywhere else in the trees.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 27, 2019)

Tonyr said:


> It's not a big deal to me as the side country at Stowe is a tracked out open secret anyway but I can post a link to a map of all of Stowe's well known side country if it's ok with the administrators here. So many people know about those areas already that it's kind of ridiculous that the runs aren't just added to the official trail map.
> 
> Tony



Not to diss DHS, he and some others prefer the sidecountry remain locals-only or for those who figure it out on their own.

Personally never felt that way. Powder days are powder days, that's the great equalizer. Stowe has so many well-known (off map) trails, trees, chutes, riverbeds and stashes it's unreal.

I understand why Stowe/VAIL wouldn't want to add these to a super high detail version of their trail map, calling them either <><> or <><><> runs. But let's be real, there are signs in the woods letting you know where some of these things are. It's not much of a secret and my feeling is, if anyone dedicates enough of their life to waste time on AlpineZone, they should have access to the Treasure Maps.

As DHS stated there is no rule against this. Go for it. I think we should do this for literally every ski area. I'm happy to help crowd-source. I've posted photos of Tomba's Chute and Angel Food from last year, do you think I'm worried it would get skied out? It's already skied out :lol: ... unless it's a powder day, everyone knows this stuff already. Why should AlpineZone remain in the dark, I assume most people here like to ski and are good at it.

People are paranoid that someone is going to snowboard horizontally down their secret stash. We're talking Stowe here.... if you can't get a fresh line skiers left off the Gondola than it's your own fault.

Information age is here, time to evolve. To me it's not somehow superior to be expected to ask people physically on the mountain where the stashes are, and hope they tell you, instead of what should be the modern formula of expert skiers sharing this information freely. Again I don't think AlpineZone is populated by Jerrys.

BTW I think this would be a pretty popular idea having crowdsourced trailmaps organized. Might fit in better to the NortheastMountainSports format though.


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## kendo (Nov 27, 2019)

Stowe - Underappreciated by some.

Have made Stowe my local mtn for the past 2 yrs with Epic.   Will gladly drive from NJ for the 2100' TTB skiing on continual fall line slopes at Stowe.  Usually stay at Spruce (non skier wife loves it) and ski Mon - Thurs, avoiding the crowds and getting to ski in near solitude.  Love falling out of bed and onto the lifts each morning!  Have come to really appreciate the Sensation quad to start or end the day.  Never have waited for that chair and can get a lot of runs in a few hours.   Haven't ventured too far off map and into the trees while skiing solo, but will follow the occasional locals that I meet on the lifts.     

Only negative is Liftline snowmaking may be on full tilt Mon - Weds to recover from weekends, but there's enough options to avoid getting blasted on the FourRunner.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 27, 2019)

First time in my life I've ever heard Stowe's trail system called, "bland"; it would be my choice for #1 trail system in the east.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 27, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Not to diss DHS, he and some others prefer the sidecountry remain locals-only or for those who figure it out on their own.
> 
> Personally never felt that way. Powder days are powder days, that's the great equalizer. Stowe has so many well-known (off map) trails, trees, chutes, riverbeds and stashes it's unreal.
> 
> ...


what's the big deal with sharing it privately?

I view it this way.  AZ is an online community.  Those who participate and interact can share in a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I've done so privately numerous times with Stowe and Wildcat over the years.  I do so in person where I ski as well.  Chat me up on a chair or at the bar and I'll show you what I know 


You are out of your f'n mind with the crowd sourced high resolution map.   Putting stuff out in public on a forum or even worse, on an actual published map causes things to become tracked out faster in a big way.  I moved to Stowe in 95.  Back then the only trees on the map were Nose Dive woods and Tres Amigos.  I skied there 100 days that season and through my own exploration found the vast majority of the goods.  That's also how I found most of the trees at Wildcat before they got put on the map.  Though at least Wildcat doesn't name them or mark the entrances.

Fast forward to 2003 I believe? Then some asshat in marketing at Stowe decided to put all of the in bounds locally developed trees on the map. I actually know him well and have shared beers and turns with him many times back in the day. Nice guy.  He was tasked with growing the business at the mountain.  He said people go elsewhere because the trail count of 48 makes it seem smaller than a place like Sunapee to the uninformed recreational skiers.  Over night Stowe went from the great 48 to the comical 116 or whatever it is now.  With that change now it all gets mostly tracked out the day of a storm.  Back before then you could find a lot of untracked 3-4 days after the storm. 

And truthfully it's not really about hording powder.  It's about preserving the treasure hunting experience New England tree skiing used to be all about.  Skiing along the trails and looking for openings that leads to new discoveries.  Sometimes taking that risk has amazing payoffs.  Other times you wind up in a dead end and having to bushwack out.  I've had a ton of those over my skiing career.  Spent sometimes up to two hours getting myself out of bad lines.  You curse the whole way then laugh about it at the bar. 

So, yes, I'm 100% against spoon feeding the masses beta.  I feel that way about skiing the way some people feel about "participation trophies."  Terrain knowledge is something you earn.  You should learn it through exploration or befriending others; not via a spoon. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## raisingarizona (Nov 27, 2019)

I’d definitely agree that the spirit of adventure, exploration and discovery has somewhat vanished in today’s information overload society.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Nov 27, 2019)

The same has happened with fishing as well (Cape Cod Canal & monster breeder bass). People cant seem to keep their mouth's/cameras shut


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 27, 2019)

There's also those exercise & outdoors apps that track where you go that's let-the-cat-out-of-the-bag on previously, relatively unknown woods as well.


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## WWF-VT (Nov 27, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> First time in my life I've ever heard Stowe's trail system called, "bland"; it would be my choice for #1 trail system in the east.



Many of us remember when Stowe proudly only had 48 trails


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## WWF-VT (Nov 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> So, yes, I'm 100% against spoon feeding the masses beta.  I feel that way about skiing the way some people feel about "participation trophies."  Terrain knowledge is something you earn.  You should learn it through exploration or befriending others; not via a spoon.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Who needs a map when this guy "Weatherman" has already provided pictures and all kinds of info in the "Beyond the trails" section of his Stowe guide:


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> what's the big deal with sharing it privately?



First thing that comes to mind is that it places you (or someone else with that knowledge and mindset) as the dispenser of knowledge to anyone you come across (in person or via internet) that you deem acceptable to share that knowledge with.



deadheadskier said:


> what's the big deal with sharing it privately?
> I view it this way.  AZ is an online community.  Those who participate and interact can share in a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I've done so privately numerous times with Stowe and Wildcat over the years.  I do so in person where I ski as well.  Chat me up on a chair or at the bar and I'll show you what I know



OK but I go skiing to ski and I waste as little time at the bar as possible. Consider that not everyone approaches skiing or considers ski-culture in the exact same manner. Also consider that this is an exclusive attitude when we are hopefully trying to include more people to enjoy the sport. Maybe some newcomers are already bored with groomers and want to explore, but for whatever reason they haven't been invited to share the goods?



deadheadskier said:


> You are out of your f'n mind with the crowd sourced high resolution map.   Putting stuff out in public on a forum or even worse, on an actual published map causes things to become tracked out faster in a big way.  I moved to Stowe in 95.  Back then the only trees on the map were Nose Dive woods and Tres Amigos.  I skied there 100 days that season and through my own exploration found the vast majority of the goods.  That's also how I found most of the trees at Wildcat before they got put on the map.  Though at least Wildcat doesn't name them or mark the entrances.



I've seen plenty of guides on other forums. Wouldn't quite say "out of my mind" but yes it's debatable.



deadheadskier said:


> Fast forward to 2003 I believe? Then some asshat in marketing at Stowe decided to put all of the in bounds locally developed trees on the map. I actually know him well and have shared beers and turns with him many times back in the day. Nice guy.  He was tasked with growing the business at the mountain.  He said people go elsewhere because the trail count of 48 makes it seem smaller than a place like Sunapee to the recreational skiers.  Over night Stowe went from the great 48 to the comical 116 or whatever it is now.  With that change now it all gets mostly tracked out the day of a storm.  Back before then you could find a lot of untracked 3-4 days after the storm.



Those trail counts made zero difference in how anybody skied or now skis the resort. I'm not saying put Angel Food on the map, but trying to say in 2019 it's still a hidden stash is kind of laughable in term of reality on the hill.



deadheadskier said:


> And truthfully it's not really about hording powder.  It's about preserving the treasure hunting experience New England tree skiing used to be all about.  Skiing along the trails and looking for openings that leads to new discoveries.  Sometimes taking that risk has amazing payoffs.  Other times you wind up in a dead end and having to bushwack out.  I've had a ton of those over my skiing career.  Spenot sometimes up to two hours getting myself out of bad lines.  You curse the whole way then laugh about it at the bar.



You can access harder terrain from the lift at several resorts in New England compared to Stowe. Everyone knows there is stuff at Stowe above the lifts and between the trails. Most of it's not even that technical. This is what "advanced skiers" these days seek out. Who am I to say I deserve to ski it more than some asshole who drove 8 hours from New York City. What if I have to drive 3 hours and only get to ski there 2x a year? I don't get to know anything in that case?



deadheadskier said:


> So, yes, I'm 100% against spoon feeding the masses beta.  I feel that way about skiing the way some people feel about "participation trophies."  Terrain knowledge is something you earn.  You should learn it through exploration or befriending others; not via a spoon.



I sort of agree if it's for safety sake and discouraging people from skiing thin terrain, etc. But I don't think AlpineZone audience is "the masses". We probably represent the relative "elite", at least those who can stomach participation on these forums.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 27, 2019)

WWF-VT said:


> Many of us remember when Stowe proudly only had 48 trails



Yup. In the early 90’s they advertised that they didn’t need to play the upper-lower naming game to boost their trail count, they had quality too to bottom runs and it separated them from the competition. When I first saw that they changed their tune years ago I felt disappointed.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 27, 2019)

Tuna you are flat out wrong about the between trail tree traffic once all of those trees were put on the map.  I lived it.  Night and day. Stowe was home for many years. After it happened the joke among locals in town went something like this

"What did you ski today?"

"I spent all day lapping fresh powder on Starr while everyone was busy tracking out the trees."

I don't think you'd find a single long time, regular Stowe skier who was/is happy about all the trees they put on the map.  

And if you only ski there twice a year, then do some exploring.  Have a sense of adventure.  Don't expect people to spoon feed you where the good stuff is.  I haven't skied Magic for probably 20 years. I intend to get there this winter and won't be seeking advice from anyone.  I look forward to discovering what I can on my own.  



Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Tuna you are flat out wrong about the between trail tree traffic once all of those trees were put on the map.  I lived it.  Night and day. Stowe was home for many years. After it happened the joke among locals in town went something like this
> 
> "What did you ski today?"
> 
> ...



I'm sure you're right on the aspects you reference. I have no first hand knowledge going back as far as you do.

Skied there a few times as a kid and then again pretty reliable on Ski Vermont passes (usually I got 2). So I'm probably at a dozen visits.

So that said believe me I explore and am usually on a mission when I head to certain ski areas, like Stowe, in general. I think I'm pretty proficient in terms of sidecountry exporation even as a mainly-solo skier. What you can learn on YouTube and by searching DuckDuckGo is pretty remarkable.

Anyway wish you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 27, 2019)

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well Tuna!  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## cdskier (Nov 27, 2019)

Zand said:


> This one will piss people off, but I'd also put in Mt Ellen as overrated. Always seems much colder and icier than South. North Ridge is the only lift worth skiing over there. Sure, there's no crowds but that's the only thing that is better than South. Speaking of crowds, I've never waited in a line at Heaven's Gate or Valley House and both have tremendous terrain.



I ski both LP and ME quite a bit and never noticed the colder thing at all. Icier depends on the day and which way the wind is blowing (and which trails you hit). I've had times when LP was icy and ME was great and also vice versa. North Ridge also allows you to access the vast majority of the terrain at ME via a high speed lift (1700' of vertical). I think lapping that lift is something vastly underrated IMO.

As for never having waited on a line at HG...that's impressive but not at all the norm on a mid-winter weekend unless you're there first thing when it opens. If HG never had a line I'd have no problems skiing that quite a few runs.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 27, 2019)

I think North Ridge is the best chair at Sugarbush.  It accesses the most terrain variety over the longest, most consistent vertical of either North or South.  You can find it all off that lift. Bumps, trees, classic old school trails, good cruisers.  

 Obviously other terrain pods have some very special terrain too, but when I skied SB frequently, North Ridge is where I'd almost always start my day lapping terrain before venturing elsewhere. 

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## JimG. (Nov 27, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> DHS shared some sweet stowe intel via PM to me a few years back which is what allowed me to branch out a bit without a guide. thanks for that bud



DHS did the same for me my last trip to Wildcat. Also much appreciated.


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## snoseek (Nov 27, 2019)

Dhs showed me some super fun stuff at wildcat a few years back. Some of that stuff could get pretty crazy...I feel like its better to go into some of those woods with someone that knows the routes vs reading a map online somewhere.


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## JimG. (Nov 27, 2019)

I agree that an actual guide is best. But a map will do; with some smart recon you can avoid trouble.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 27, 2019)

JimG. said:


> I agree that an actual guide is best. But a map will do; with some smart recon you can avoid trouble.



Out west, Steamboat is the most overrated imo. I guess it’s great for tourist skiers but man, the terrain is so boring and uninspiring for skiers seeking features.


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 28, 2019)

I think Sun Valley is pretty underrated. I’ve never skied there, but it looks like they have some awesome terrain.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 28, 2019)

raisingarizona said:


> Out west, Steamboat is the most overrated imo. I guess it’s great for tourist skiers but man, the terrain is so boring and uninspiring for skiers seeking features.



Could not agree more. Steamboat is a joke of intermediate bullshit


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## machski (Nov 28, 2019)

Slidebrook87 said:


> I think Sun Valley is pretty underrated. I’ve never skied there, but it looks like they have some awesome terrain.


Big mountain, it is fun but doesn't really have any of the western big mountain lines.  I'd actually put it in the same bucket as Steamboat, a notch higher because of the history.  You have to time it right, can be dry there.  Sits in a weird spot out west.

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## VTKilarney (Nov 28, 2019)

Underrated: Cloudmont in Alabama.  Because operating a ski area in Alabama is insane.


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## fbrissette (Nov 28, 2019)

VTKilarney said:


> Underrated: Cloudmont in Alabama.  Because operating a ski area in Alabama is insane.



I thought you were pulling our legs so I had to check it out.   You would have to be pretty desperate to ski there.   I wonder how long their season is.  Insane is the right word,


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## JimG. (Nov 28, 2019)

raisingarizona said:


> Out west, Steamboat is the most overrated imo. I guess it’s great for tourist skiers but man, the terrain is so boring and uninspiring for skiers seeking features.



Never been to Steamboat but have heard that what you say is true. But not sure what that has to do with someone to show you lines or give you maps of good lines at Wildcat.


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## Cornhead (Nov 28, 2019)

VTKilarney said:


> Underrated: Cloudmont in Alabama.  Because operating a ski area in Alabama is insane.


Apparently Jenny is misinformed. And politically incorrect.

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## 2planks2coasts (Nov 28, 2019)

Plenty of AL & GA based colleagues have skied Cloudmont and lived to tell the tale.   Further north, I think Shawnee Peak of Maine is Underrated. In the shadow of the much bigger NH and ME places, it has decent terrain and I've not seen a lift line the 3 times I've been. 

Most overrated would have to be Hunter.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 29, 2019)

Shawnee is definitely an overlooked mountain.  I love that there's barely any run out and has a very consistent pitch.  It skis bigger than it's 1300' vertical.  Some really good flow to their trails.  Big fan of the lift line trail on Sunnyside.  Only complaint is I wish they ran the Sunnyside chair 7 days a week.  I think they'd be better if closing the Pine Quad midweek instead of Sunnyside. 

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## Cornhead (Nov 29, 2019)

McCauley Mt, Old Forge NY, the gnarliest 660ft you'll ever ski. And it'll cost you a whopping $35 weekends, $25 weekdays, $12 Fridays. Owned by the town of Webb, if your kids go to school in the town, they ski free until they graduate high school. Pretty good doses of lake snow too. 

A true unspoiled gem, much like Plattekill was before it blew up on the internet from idiots talking about it...oh shit. That's ok, it's in the middle of nowhere, I don't expect to see lines of cars down their access road any time soon.

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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 29, 2019)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> The same has happened with fishing as well



OMG yes. It's sickening at times...


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## kingslug (Nov 29, 2019)

I woukd think Hunter gets ragged on the most of any ski resort..certainly not over rated..


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## EPB (Nov 29, 2019)

kingslug said:


> I woukd think Hunter gets ragged on the most of any ski resort..certainly not over rated..


Agreed. The only way you could call it overrated would be vis-a-vis skier traffic. I thought about saying that heavily trafficed areas are good candidates. Then I remembered that the masses choose their ski areas for many other factors than visiting the best ski area/terrain. 

Hunter is what it is - a steep-in-spots 1500 foot vert mountain 2 hours from greater NYC that draws a ton of traffic and doesn't get much natural snow. 

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## Tonyr (Nov 29, 2019)

kingslug said:


> I woukd think Hunter gets ragged on the most of any ski resort..certainly not over rated..



We are up at Hunter for the first time ever this weekend. I had low expectations considering all of the complaints and crowding issues we've heard but decided to try it this weekend since the mountain was added to the Epic pass. So far I am pleasantly surprised, the terrain here is pretty good, even the runs not open looked like they'd be challenging. I guess we will see how Saturday and Sunday shakes out with the crowds. The longest we waited in line today was between 5 and 10 minutes for the Kaatskill Flyer which moves really fast once you get on. The other lift next to it was empty. I can certainly live with that.

Tony


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## Slidebrook87 (Nov 29, 2019)

Tonyr said:


> We are up at Hunter for the first time ever this weekend. I had low expectations considering all of the complaints and crowding issues we've heard but decided to try it this weekend since the mountain was added to the Epic pass. So far I am pleasantly surprised, the terrain here is pretty good, even the runs not open looked like they'd be challenging. I guess we will see how Saturday and Sunday shakes out with the crowds. The longest we waited in line today was between 5 and 10 minutes for the Kaatskill Flyer which moves really fast once you get on. The other lift next to it was empty. I can certainly live with that.
> 
> Tony



I went to Hunter last year and discovered the same thing. It has good terrain variety and plenty of ways to avoid its famous crowds. The terrain is unmatched by any ski resort nearby (other than maybe Windham) and it’s lift system is solid. I never waited in a lift line longer that man 5 minutes. I didn’t eat lunch, but I don’t suspect that it was anything special. 


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 29, 2019)

Windham's terrain stinks compared to Hunter, and I'd rather ski Platty than any of the three.


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## ne_skier (Oct 19, 2020)

Thread's kind of dead but whatever
As someone who lives close to it, I can assure you Mountain Creek is waay over on the overrated side. It looks big, but there isn't much terrain. Vernon is an OK amount of terrain, but the insane amount of people the Cabriolet pumps up on the mountain washes it out fast, plus with the blue runs left off the cabriolet more often than not being closed you'll find yourself skiing the same two runs all of the time. Granite is really not much more than a transfer mountain, especially if Grand Prix is closed. It's no wonder that in the 80s they had a double chair built purely so one could completely bypass this area when heading to South. Sojourn is well...a lift and a trail, both for transfer reasons and both slow and long. Lift can be kind of cool at night if you have the time. South has more terrain density than the rest of the mountain, and it's cool if you like terrain parks. If not, don't bother. Bear doesn't have much terrain and more often than not South is 100% park. The lifts, despite being installed fairly recently in 1998 are both in pretty bad condition from what I assume is just a lack of maintenance. They are some of the slowest running detachables I've ever been on and I wouldnt be shocked if there's a reason other than cost for why they run them so slow. Mountain Creek corporate probably loves the Cabriolet as it pumps capacity up the mountain on a cheaper alternative to a gondola. If you really dont like sitting down and you haven't been stabbed by a ski pole in a while, it's a great lift. I haven't experienced this at a busy time, but I can't imagine it's fun when the Cabriolet goes on wind hold because of how much of a wind sail that lift is (They started cutting holes in the little cabin things to avoid this) and all of that "super high capacity" gets diverted to the triple. Fun fact, Granite was actually built with detachable line gear (Except grips and terminals of course) so it could be easily converted, but for reasons stated before, that's never happening.
Yeah, that was more or less a rant, I'm bored lol. Anyways if you're a day tripper residing in NJ I suggest you just take the extra time and head over to Camelback or Shawnee.


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## ss20 (Oct 19, 2020)

Honestly I skied Mountain Creek once while it was on the Max pass thought it was good based on the horror stories I had heard.  Skied big and things weren't just straight down the fall line.  Of course, my expectations were set at zero lol.


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## ne_skier (Oct 19, 2020)

ss20 said:


> Honestly I skied Mountain Creek once while it was on the Max pass thought it was good based on the horror stories I had heard.  Skied big and things weren't just straight down the fall line.  Of course, my expectations were set at zero lol.



Yeah, I do like that it’s not just a ridge where all the runs have the same fall line. If I had to improve the mountain, I’d cut more runs everywhere to match the capacity of the lifts, as well as more runs on Granite to give that area some purpose. 


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## 2Planker (Oct 19, 2020)

Not going back 13 pages so I don't know if anyone mentioned Wildcat.

Way under rated !!


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