# Burke Announces Multi million dollar capital improvement plan for this year



## Masskier (Jun 24, 2005)

Great news for Burke skiers.  New hs detachable quad, major investment in snowmaking and Base lodge improvements. This is the start of a new era for Burke.


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## awf170 (Jun 24, 2005)

Masskier said:
			
		

> Great news for Burke skiers.



your joking right????


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## riverc0il (Jun 25, 2005)

yea, what awf170 said.  it's not so much the improvements that are being made, all those improvements are much needed (well, the hsq in the base area isn't needed so much as a hsq to the summit which isn't going in yet), it's the possible systematic destruction and resort styled development of one of new england's last untouched gems.


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## Greg (Jun 25, 2005)

More info:

http://news.alpinezone.com/4652/


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## Masskier (Jun 26, 2005)

We all know that Burke has struggled financially for years.  These improvements are necessary if its going to remain in business.  We can’t expect them to continue to loose money and be subsidize by the school indefinitely.  My understanding is that they are only looking for a modest increase in skier visits to take them out of the red and into the black.  This is great news for the whole Burke area.  Increase employment, Kingdom kids, but more important stability.  No longer worrying if someone is going to write a check to cover last years losses.  Obviously this is a major commitment from Burke 2000 to keep Burke alive


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## skizilla (Jun 26, 2005)

*burke lift*

It is replacing the lower lift.  Is it in the exact same foot print?  They said they are adding a trail to the midmountain lift which make me think it is a little different.
Replacing the lower lift is a waste to me, granted it is slow and annnoying but they really should to a whole mounatin lift or go like 2/3 3/4 of the way the lower terrain has zero appeal to anyone beyeond a begeginer.


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## riverc0il (Jun 26, 2005)

skizilla, i agree about the lower lift from a personal stand point.  however, i would wager the new potential owners are envisioning a new base lodge at lower burke complete with lots of new condos and ski in/out style lodging creating a more active lower burke.  looking at it from a person looking to buy condos or folks that are not hard core old school styled skiers, i think the average skier would prefer beginning their day at lower burke than mid-burke.  i enjoy the steep windy drive and minimal atmosphere of the mid-burke lodge, but i am not the person they are building a HSQ for.  i think the lower mountain double is perfect for that area and i only can imagine a HSQ being needed for future development in that area, especially making the lower burke lodge the major "resort hub" as opposed to mid-burke.

masskier, the improvements are needed somewhat, but it's the long term planning of the new company that has me and many other burke skiers worried.  a HSQ to service four beginner trails is definitely NOT "needed" under any business model except that of a high priced resort.  the HSQ should be going to the summit to replace the fixed grip, that concerns me regarding where the priorities are.  burke could have become finacially stable and viable without selling out to the company they did, imho.  they were already making gains and improving on skier visits and the word was getting out.  this past season was the most "crowded" i have seen the skier area when i skied there.


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## awf170 (Jun 26, 2005)

improvements are not need to make money look at mrg


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## riverc0il (Jun 26, 2005)

mrg is it's own beast.  you aren't going to find a couple hundred people to drop down 3k for innitial shares in buying out burke as a co-op.  improvements are definitely needed for long term viability at burke, how they are done is what is in question.

also, mrg does make improvements.  they just don't change much of their physical infrastructure.  but they are doing a rebuild of the single, that is an improvement that even mrg needed to do.


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## sledhaulingmedic (Jun 26, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> improvements are not need to make money look at mrg



Mad River does not "Make Money".  It can't.  It's a non-profit.  They do have surpluses, which get re-invested.  I love the concept of a co-op because the focus on skiing, rather than profit.

This type of discussion comes up anytime a place like Burke changes hands or any major "improvement" is sugested at one of the "less commercial" areas.  (A few threads about Magic on another board come to mind).  It's a balancing act.  Many of us appreciate the areas with classic trails and terrain and wish they'd stay that way.  The problem is that the target market for most areas isn't skiers like me and Riv.  The areas make more money on families that will come up. rent skis, take lessons, buy $8 hamburgers, etc..  THe investors want to cater to them becuse that's where they get their return on investment.  

So, we're stuck.  Keep it the same and it goes belly up, or go corporate and make another bland McMountain?

Somewhere in between are larger operations that have services that enhance profits, but on a mountain that still has some soul.  As an example, Sugarloaf.  (Which, ASC reported, had a very good year, for a change.)

Speaking to Massskier's original post, this IS an new era for Burke.  Time will tell if it is, in fact, good news.


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## ctenidae (Jun 27, 2005)

If the new lift only services lower Burke, won't that just concentrate that type of skier at the bottom? Sounds like a good thing for those that like the top.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 27, 2005)

OK, just getting in after a hot weekend.  

Just saw this...am I dreaming?  

My local source up at home had told me about this plan back in April or so...rumors were that the lift was going to end higher up on the mtn, as stated here.  So that means either in between Willoughby and the terrain park or to the skier's left of Lower Willoughby.  

Phew...this is interesting!  

Um, with regards to whose paying for it, I imagine that this is a Ginn funded project.  You know, the folks that I've been talking about in the other Burke thread?  Maybe they are NOT going to buy the mountain, just become a partner in the ownership and give BMA the $$$ to make improvements.  In this scenario, BMA would sell the tickets and own the SKI facilities while Ginn owned the surrounding land and benefited from lodging packages and condos.  In essence, split the "McResort" into two separate entities...one that runs the ski area and focuses on that and the other that focuses on the condos and junk that skiers and riders (hardcore) don't care about.  It would be a nice compromise but I don't see it happening since their are rumors of impending sale...

It could also be that Ginn has NOTHING to do with this and BMA/Burke FINALLY won their VEDA grant for the quad.  

The lower mountain has some great cruising terrain reminiscent of Bretton Woods and this will help put the traffic down there...


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## thetrailboss (Jun 27, 2005)

From Poma-Leitner's website, the *specs of the new lift*.

Some more *specs on the 400 hp Omega unit* that will replaced the Hall Double Chair.


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## awf170 (Jun 27, 2005)

i wonder if they will add trails around that bottom area with the new lift, can they add many new trails around there, i havent been there in a while so i dont really remember much


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## thetrailboss (Jun 27, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> i wonder if they will add trails around that bottom area with the new lift, can they add many new trails around there, i havent been there in a while so i dont really remember much



Yep, there is room to do so...they're adding a new trail OFF the lift too...


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## awf170 (Jun 27, 2005)

if burke wanted to make a summit hsq, you can use the same towers right?


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## thetrailboss (Jun 27, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> if burke wanted to make a summit hsq, you can use the same towers right?



lol, well, that is actually what they did in 1988 with the current quad which used the original Hall Double pylons but with modified cross arms.  Those towers have been there largely unchanged then for almost 40 years...I don't think that they'd be able to take much more weight.  They did add some new ones I'm sure, but by and large most of the pylons are original.


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## awf170 (Jun 27, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> awf170 said:
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ohhh i didnt know that... havent been there in such a long time


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## stomachdoc (Jun 27, 2005)

If the first order of business is to demolish Mid-Burke to build a new lodge or a hotel, than the Lower HSQ makes sense--it will make having to go all the way down to the main lodge for lunch a little less annoying while they do construction at Mid Burke.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 27, 2005)

It also makes skiing 2000 vert easier and faster...about 15 min ride instead of 30.


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## riverc0il (Jun 27, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> If the new lift only services lower Burke, won't that just concentrate that type of skier at the bottom? Sounds like a good thing for those that like the top.


ctenidae, have you ever been to burke?  the lower slopes are extremely flat, probably some of the flatest learning terrain in new england and good for newbies or condo holders only.  skiers that prefer those slopes would likely never ride the summit quad as there are no green circles off the summit and only one trail (toll road or deer run if you would) that is doable for a beginner.  besides, it's not like any one riding the summit quad is fighting off the crowds or competing for freshies :lol: 

yet...


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## riverc0il (Jun 27, 2005)

> My local source up at home had told me about this plan back in April or so...rumors were that the lift was going to end higher up on the mtn, as stated here. So that means either in between Willoughby and the terrain park or to the skier's left of Lower Willoughby.


interesting about the lift going higher up the mountain.  though for beginners, this could create issues with the run being too long or too steep depending on where the chair lets off.  ideally the new trails will service beginners and get them to the lower mountain without too many trail cross overs.

TB, you have an interesting scenerio regarding investment of the resort company and income on realty while burke continues to run operations.  however, if this was the case, i think burke would have made it painfully obvious as that scenerio would be the best for everyone interested in burke.

if the new HSQ is due to the new resort company, is it weird that the HSQ is going (or at least having a formal announcement) before ownership has officially been transferred?  i doubt this would be happening without financing from the new resort company from what i had heard through the grape vine in years past regarding the possibility of upgrading the summit quad.


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## riverc0il (Jun 27, 2005)

stomachdoc said:
			
		

> If the first order of business is to demolish Mid-Burke to build a new lodge or a hotel, than the Lower HSQ makes sense--it will make having to go all the way down to the main lodge for lunch a little less annoying while they do construction at Mid Burke.


interesting point stomachdoc... i hadn't even considered the possibility that mid-burke lodge would be terminated as both an entrance to the ski area or a mid-mountain lodge for food and warmth.  from a resort perspective, making mid-burke area condos is a stroke of genius that would require speedy access from lower burke base lodge.  interesting scenerio and one that i am not entirely opposed to.


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## Masskier (Jun 27, 2005)

"The new lift will be a little shorter, according to Dick Andross, president of ski area operations, and will be a four-minute ride to the top. The detachable quad travels 1,000 feet per minute, Andross said"

From The Caledonian-Record


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## stomachdoc (Jun 27, 2005)

As has been mentioned before by AZers, increasing lift capacity to the top of the mountain would require a significant redesign of the trails at the top; you need a little more width at the top as a larger number of skiers/minute work their way from the unload area to their trails of choice.  There are some narrow passages with trees that will have to be widened.

Starting at the bottom seems like a smart way to do it; the condo owners will be happy, the beginner/intermediate skiers can get more runs in, more skiers will be attracted when they hear of the improvements and, for now, the "old style" skiing off of the top will remain as is.


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## sledhaulingmedic (Jun 28, 2005)

The lift would, in effect, create a layout like Okemo or Someday Bigger, with a high-speed feeder/beginer lift at the base.  Not my favorite layout, but it works in some places.


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## awf170 (Jun 28, 2005)

stomachdoc said:
			
		

> As has been mentioned before by AZers, increasing lift capacity to the top of the mountain would require a significant redesign of the trails at the top; you need a little more width at the top as a larger number of skiers/minute work their way from the unload area to their trails of choice.  There are some narrow passages with trees that will have to be widened.
> 
> Starting at the bottom seems like a smart way to do it; the condo owners will be happy, the beginner/intermediate skiers can get more runs in, more skiers will be attracted when they hear of the improvements and, for now, the "old style" skiing off of the top will remain as is.



the suprising thing about adding a HSQ to the top is that it wouldnt add much capacity, a HSQ doesnt have anymore capacity then a regular one it justs makes people able to do more runs making it slightly more crowded.... maybe widen one trail


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## riverc0il (Jun 28, 2005)

i believe a HSQ would actually increase capacity in this case due to the current quad being so slow.  a fast enough fixed grip will indeed equal a HSQ, but an old low speed fixed grip may well be slower than a HSQ would be, perhaps by a significant amount.  hard to call without knowing the capacity per hour of the current fixed grip.  one thing is for sure though, with skiers spending more time on the snow than in the lift, a HSQ will increase something rarely seen at burke: lines.

i don't agree with the idea that a HSQ would require more trails or widening trails.  burke has a wide variety of trails off the top including willoughby, bear, fox's, the narrow trail i forget the name of, toll road, east bowl, the dippers, wilderness, and one other near toll road.  of those trails, willoughby and dippers are really wide.  compare that setup to a place like wildcat that dumps all it's skiers at the summit from which skiers normally only have 4 trails to pick from unless it's the rare occasion that the lift lines are open from the top (i have seen this once in a dozen years).  granted, upper wildcat trails suffer from scraped and skied off conditions by noon time usually, but wildcat has a lot more traffic and far fewer options than burke.  actually, when you really take a close look at the options from the top of burke, i believe burke has one of the highest number of trail options from it's summit out of nearly any new england ski area.


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## sledhaulingmedic (Jun 28, 2005)

Well, Burke does have it for variety and trail count off the top.  That being said, it's skiable acres that need to be balanced against uphill capacity.

YOu probably could increase the capacity and, given Burke's current daily census, not adversely stress the "downhill capacity".  High speed lifts are not installed fun, they are installed for profit.  They are a significant additional expense that needs increased visits to get ROI.  In short, you need butts in those seats, which leads to more traffic on the slopes.

I ski weekdays only, so it doesn't really effect me.  (OK, I'll admitt it, a quick ride isn't a bad thing.)  I don't care for wider, cookie cutter slopes, however, so I shudder when I think of what "improvements" might do to a gem like Burke.  (I know, I know, "Keep it off NELSAP").


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## thetrailboss (Jun 29, 2005)

Yes, in a good winter with snowfall, an expert has many, many routes down from Burke.  What is great is how you can ski many different trail types (fast cruiser to narrow old school trail before diving into the woods) on one run.  HSQ's are expensive to install but last longer than fixed grips and are less to maintain.  I imagine they are probably more efficient energy-wise.  The current quad is a true workhorse--as Bob R and riverc0il recall on our visit, that lift climbs "one chair over the other" for about 2/3 of the lift...remember, she serves about 1600 vert--that's quite a ride.  

The new HSQ is 400 hp and I'd imagine the one to replace the Willoughby Quad would probably have to be similar to SB's GMX (700 hp) or even more.  That = lots of $$$.

Wonder what will become of the double?  And please leave the Poma--piece of ski history and Burke's OLDEST lift (first one) that is still running (albeit modified twice).


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## awf170 (Jun 29, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Yes, in a good winter with snowfall, an expert has many, many routes down from Burke.  What is great is how you can ski many different trail types (fast cruiser to narrow old school trail before diving into the woods) on one run.  HSQ's are expensive to install but last longer than fixed grips and are less to maintain.  I imagine they are probably more efficient energy-wise.  The current quad is a true workhorse--as Bob R and riverc0il recall on our visit, that lift climbs "one chair over the other" for about 2/3 of the lift...remember, she serves about 1600 vert--that's quite a ride.
> 
> The new HSQ is 400 hp and I'd imagine the one to replace the Willoughby Quad would probably have to be similar to SB's GMX (700 hp) or even more.  That = lots of $$$.
> 
> Wonder what will become of the double?  And please leave the Poma--piece of ski history and Burke's OLDEST lift (first one) that is still running (albeit modified twice).



I think it is wierd how a chair bringing all those people up a mountain would only be 400 hp, for some reason i always though hsq's were atleast a 1000hp


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## thetrailboss (Jun 30, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> I think it is wierd how a chair bringing all those people up a mountain would only be 400 hp, for some reason i always though hsq's were atleast a 1000hp



I also thought that 400 hp was small as well, but according to *Poma's website* Ragged Mountain's 6 pack only uses a 600 hp 'phat boy' motor.  This probably explains why that lift has such a hard time restarting after a stop...too much weight.  

Today is D-Day when we will find out IF Burke has been sold...my thoughts are that either a) they have been, or b) these new improvements are the result of a VEDA grant and Ginn has decided to buy the land and property around the resort...

Any news?

Want to head up and see construction.  Kind of sad to see the old double come down.  My first chairlift.  Slow, but cool ride (albeit flat).  Those towers are HUGE as well   .  I still can't figure out where this new lift is going to terminate.   :blink:   To skier's left of Willoughby?  In the area between the Gap and Willougby?  Isn't this going to destroy Lower Willoughby, which is a great high speed cruiser?


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## thetrailboss (Jun 30, 2005)

OK, to add some context to this conversation, here is an aerial shot from Terraserver:  





The large meadow on the left just below the upper mountain trails is rumored to be the future site of more condos.  

You can see the lower mountain trail pod, which begins on the lower right hand corner and extends to Lower Willoughby.  If you look closely, you can see the top station of the double, at the intersection/landing just below Lower Willoughby.  I guess if the new lift goes straight up it would end in the treed-in area found above the current terminal and almost dead center of the photo.  I wonder if they're going to end over to the right in the trees?  How would one get to the Willoughby Quad on this "new trail?"  By going down to Lower Willoughby?  Cutting left to Lower Fox's?    

Also note how narrow the trails are on the top and how it is difficult to find them!


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## awf170 (Jun 30, 2005)

looks like there are some really spread out trees off the top of east bowl but i dont see anything on the trail map there...


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## thetrailboss (Jun 30, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> looks like there are some really spread out trees off the top of east bowl but i dont see anything on the trail map there...



Of course there is nothing there  :wink:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 30, 2005)

The plot thickens.  Taken from *this article* in the Caledonian Record about Wind farms...kind of a tangent, but interesting:



			
				Caledonian Record said:
			
		

> The letter was sent two days before Burke 2000, owner of the ski area, announced a multimillion dollar capital plan that includes a new chair lift, snow-making expansion and trail improvements. This is an ambitious venture for a company that has been losing money on the ski operation since it was purchased at auction five years ago. Losses of between $100,000 and $300,000 a year led the company to search for investors in order to make the area a four-season resort. Negotiations have been ongoing for three years.
> 
> Enter Donald Graham, a Pennsylvania businessman who has had close ties to the academy and the ski area for more than 30 years, and Ginn Clubs and Resorts, a development company based in Celebration, Fla. Graham went to Montpelier early in this legislative session to speak with local legislators about the mountain's development plans, and he expressed concerns about how wind turbines nearby might quash any deal, according to state Sen. Jane Kitchel of Caledonia County.
> 
> ...


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## awf170 (Jul 1, 2005)

you know those new glades at the far right side(lift riders right) of the mountain, i was just looking at a topo and they look insanely steep, is this true, or am i looked in the wrong spot :-?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 3, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> you know those new glades at the far right side(lift riders right) of the mountain, i was just looking at a topo and they look insanely steep, is this true, or am i looked in the wrong spot :-?



Yes, the pitch on the 'west side' is steep.  You're looking at the Jungle and Birches off of Willoughby, right?  Some nice pitch over there and nice snow.  Good solid long glades that dump onto the fire road.  Both take some snow to cover up the 'nasty' stuff underneath, but the Birches is just that...birches and nice space.


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## awf170 (Jul 8, 2005)

just looked at jay peaks website and it says you ski burke free with there a jay season pass...
so is it only jay to peak and no burke to jay?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 8, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> just looked at jay peaks website and it says you ski burke free with there a jay season pass...
> so is it only jay to peak and no burke to jay?



According to Jay's AZ Challenge, the reciprocity IS ONLY GOOD midweek non-holiday...sorry I didn't hyperlink it.


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## awf170 (Jul 8, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> awf170 said:
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oh nvm look at this
http://www.jaypeakresort.com/page.asp?intNodeID=16194

first it says burke is free, then it says the other stuff at the bottom


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## thetrailboss (Jul 8, 2005)

awf170 said:
			
		

> thetrailboss said:
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Welcome to the world of advertising and fine print! :roll:


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## riverc0il (Jul 8, 2005)

the burke pass is free skiing at jay midweek then $30 on the weekends.  jay probably has the same deal going the other way.


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## awf170 (Jul 11, 2005)

does anyone know if burke has any discounts for season pass holders of any mountain, like at cannon if u have a season pass it is $10 off


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## riverc0il (Jul 11, 2005)

burke season pass holders get half off tickets at cannon, dartmouth, and balsams and get free skiing at jay peak mid-week, $30 on the weekends.  great deal for the price of the pass.


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## awf170 (Jul 11, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> burke season pass holders get half off tickets at cannon, dartmouth, and balsams and get free skiing at jay peak mid-week, $30 on the weekends.  great deal for the price of the pass.



oh sry, i meant the oppisite way around, im going to get a wildcat season pass, so for having that do i get any discounts at burke.   At places like cannon i get $10 off for that.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2005)

Now Burke is saying that the new quad will be 150 feet SHORTER than the double dumping out below the current unloading area.  One question--WHY????  The current set-up works UNLESS they are planning on keeping novice skiers off of Lower Willoughby...


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## riverc0il (Jul 18, 2005)

is it possible that was a type?  have you verified that with David and made sure he did not accidently say lower when he meant high?  150 feet lower would definitely require construction of a new chair for access to the summit quad from the top of the new lift which is essential.  perhaps they are looking at a less steep transition between the top of the beginner lift and the summit quad?  that would eliminate a possibly dangerous intersection and ensure people riding the lower lift stayed within the terrain the lift is serving.


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## Masskier (Jul 18, 2005)

I posted this earlier 

"The new lift will be a little shorter, according to Dick Andross, president of ski area operations, and will be a four-minute ride to the top. The detachable quad travels 1,000 feet per minute, Andross said" 
From The Caledonian-Record

Its lower so they can buile an easier way to the Willoughby Quad.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 22, 2005)

This just in:



> Burke Blast! – Construction Begins on New Quad
> 
> The process of installing the new, high-speed quad began this week.  Chairs from the Sherburne Double have been removed from the cable and the base station is in the process of being disassembled.  The disassembly process will continue in the coming weeks.  Click here to see photos of the work.
> 
> ...



And here is the picture from the *website*





No need to fear...Trailboss is heading up tomorrow to take photos and write a report for AZ!  :wink:


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## thetrailboss (Jul 22, 2005)

OK, guess what?  More pics from Burke's site!!!













Hannah Collins and David Gwatkin are credited for these photos.   :wink: 

www.skiburke.com


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## thetrailboss (Jul 24, 2005)

*TRIP REPORT:  SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 23, 2005 VISIT TO BURKE.*

As promised, we went up and walked around Burke to check out the construction.  I took some pics, so look for them soon, but the Burke pics above pretty much tell the story.  Two Leitner-Poma pickups at Sherburne Base Lodge.  Chairs are all off the double, stacked, and chained together so *nobody* can get any souveniers.  This is consistent with what sources have said regarding the future use of the chair somewhere else on the mtn.  The base terminal is almost completely disassembled.  The engine was covered with a tarp and the counterweight building was gone along with the lift attendant's shack.  The counterweight was cool to look at.  A high-lift was on site.  The cable/line is in the process of being removed and the uphill line was off of the sheaves on towers 2 and 3.  Next stage will be removing the line this week and beginning to take down the towers.  The trees have really grown in on the lower liftline (where the brook runs underneath the lift), so I imagine they will clear it further.  

Nothing else at the base to speak of except two stakes behind the base terminal.  

We drove to Mid Burke, which was gated to find that there had been no visible activity on the trails or at the snowmaking pumphouses.  They have not begun clearing the new access trail from what we could see.  Some chairs were off the quad, as is required for summer maintenance and storage.  The place was eerily quiet and desolate without snow.  

Two survey markers above the lodge on the upper slope--had elevation notation on it.  

So nothing big, but interesting to see what is going on.  I imagine in a few weeks we'll have something more interesting to look at...watching the GMX go up at Sugarbush (including splicing the final cable line) was interesting.


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## Vortex (Jul 24, 2005)

TB on the job.


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## bvibert (Jul 24, 2005)

Good work TB, thanks for the update...


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## loafer89 (Jul 25, 2005)

Burke 1993-1994 brochure:


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## thetrailboss (Jul 25, 2005)

bvibert said:
			
		

> Good work TB, thanks for the update...



No problem guys.  Looks like end of the week for pics.  Maybe early next week.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 25, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> Burke 1993-1994 brochure:



Thanks again, loafer!!      I remember that brochure and have a copy at home in VT.  Note the day rate: $22 every day of the season.  It was a last minute gimmick to try and drum up business for the last two years.  Also note the "FUTURE EXPANSION MAP" that was a feature on Burke maps from the early 1980's through about 1995 or so.  It became kind of a joke to us locals since it was never going to happen  :roll: 

When you look at the snowmaking coverage and compare it to today's map or stats, there is no comparison:





*The Mountain's Stats* accurately describe the situation now...much more snowmaking...more than double the original "30 acres" of coverage.  

Note the new trails and glades.  Also note that the Mountain Poma (to the left of the summit quad) is so much longer...this work was done in 1995.  The Dipper Poma never operated after about 1991 or 1992 or so, kind of funny it remained on the map for so long.  Now it is gone.

One more funny story:  Bear Kingdom Limited ran the mountain and was owned by a German movie mogul named Bernd Schaffers or something like that.  He used to make his wife get on the radio for a cheesy ad bragging about the mountain.  They also told the local paper that they had plans to build 'bavarian castles' on the mountain to bring a taste of Europe to the area  :blink:  :roll:   Turns out when the place went bankrupt, they disappeared because the mountain was being used as a money laundering operation.  INTERPOL caught up with him soon after  :wink:


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## loafer89 (Jul 25, 2005)

I posted the Burke brochure scan especially for you as I know how much you like the place. I skied burke for the first and only time in March of 1994. I had a great time, I just never got around to going back again  

I also have Burke brochures for much of the mid-late 1990's.

I sent alot of maps and brochures to Teachski's website over the weekend.


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## teachski (Jul 25, 2005)

Yes, he did and they are all posted on my site.  I look forward to any and all additional brochures he, and others want to send me for the site.  I, of course, will credit brochures to their rightful owners.  

I think it's great that people are willing to share their things.  I am happy to host them on my site, they make my site better and more complete (though it never will be "complete").

Thanks again for the additions.

(P.S.  I will not post anything without first obtainint permission from the owner.)


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## thetrailboss (Jul 25, 2005)

Also, note on the 1994 map that trails 10 and 11 are just 'missing,' meaning that Burke had 28 and NOT 30 trails.  Those trails, Bunny Hop and Hydroelectric, as well as the lower part of Toll Road can still be found coming off of the bottom of East Bowl.  They run to the High Meadows Condos away from the main area and many folks were taking it to find that the trails ended on the access road without lift access back up!


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## loafer89 (Jul 25, 2005)

I can go a long way torward helping Teachski fill in any "gaps" in the website. I feel like a skiing brochure pack-rat :roll: 

Later I will scan:

Mount Southington
Ski Woodbury
Powder Ridge

To help you finish Connecticut

I also have:

Blandford in M.A

And Black Mountain & Camden in Maine & Suicide Six in V.T.

Kevin


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## riverc0il (Jul 25, 2005)

wow, thanks for sharing the brochure!  look at those future expansion lines, damn!  i think the lift up the east bowl is a lot more likely which hopefully would not destroy those glades.  the stuff off the west side looks like a long shot.  kinda funny to put it into a brochure when it isn't going to happen any time soon!


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## loafer89 (Jul 25, 2005)

I am more than happy to share this stuff, I have been organizing/filing/scanning so many brochures this weekend, I did not even notice the expansion plan on the map :dunce:


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## loafer89 (Jul 26, 2005)

Here is the 1996-197 Burke trail map. You will notice that the back page has a diagram and explanation of an expansion plan for the mountain. Did this part actually happen?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> wow, thanks for sharing the brochure!  look at those future expansion lines, damn!  i think the lift up the east bowl is a lot more likely which hopefully would not destroy those glades.  the stuff off the west side looks like a long shot.  kinda funny to put it into a brochure when it isn't going to happen any time soon!



Yes, the 'Future Expansion' in the East Bowl is now largely the glades.  They were thinned out to allow glade skiing before they were to be cut into trails.  In the 1980's the plan was to put more trails over there (which are now in as glades) and a lift while also expanding down toward the Cutter Inn (that large meadow that Ginn now owns).  I would not be surprised if that lower section IS added for Ginn's development.  

In the late 1990's, the last regime planned on moving the current quad to the East Bowl and installing a HSQ up the current quad line, hence the 'quad chairlift' in the East Bowl.  Regrettably, they had a lot of catching up to do...a lot of snowmaking work was done.  They were planning on putting a triple chair up the old Dipper Poma line to access that pod of trails (up the now 'Boarder Line' trail).  In the works for 2000-2001 was also a discount hotel reminiscent of SR's White Cap Inn, but financing was denied, they went under, and BMA bought the place.  

As for West Peak...man...insane expert stuff!     Steep terrain over there.  It's always been on the books, but I think the last regime gave up on it as a compromise to environmentalists who were concerned about bear habitat.  

So yeah, whenever we hear about 'future expansion' plans, we can't help but be skeptical because we've heard it for so long  :roll: A part of me was skeptical about this new HSQ, but this weekend, they were up there taking it down and getting ready, so it's coming.  Good job guys!   :beer:


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> Here is the 1996-197 Burke trail map. You will notice that the back page has a diagram and explanation of an expansion plan for the mountain. Did this part actually happen?



The short answer is yes and no.  Those trails are now glades.  The Dipper Trail WAS done which was a huge improvement.  Snowmaking coverage, even at this early stage depicted above, is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the 1993-94 map as you can see.  Compare it to now, with SM on the east side (Toll Road, Dippers, Carriage Road, etc) was a real big move as well.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 1, 2005)

The *latest pics from Burke on construction*.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 1, 2005)

*Here are my pics* from last week's visit for you to see.


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## bvibert (Aug 1, 2005)

Good pics TB!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2005)

Just got *these photos* from Burke Mountain regarding the construction.  Not too much left over except for the base of the old lift.


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## smootharc (Aug 2, 2005)

*Sorry if it's been posted before....*

....but the Vermont Property Owner's Report (Aug. Sept 2005, Volume 20, No. 3) I just got in the mail today has a huge section on Burke maybe being sold (old news?), Haystack, and othe ski area improvements.  Think you guys are ahead of the curve here, but thought I'd mention it.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2005)

*Re: Sorry if it's been posted before....*



			
				smootharc said:
			
		

> ....but the Vermont Property Owner's Report (Aug. Sept 2005, Volume 20, No. 3) I just got in the mail today has a huge section on Burke maybe being sold (old news?), Haystack, and othe ski area improvements.  Think you guys are ahead of the curve here, but thought I'd mention it.



I'd be interested in seeing that...do they have a website?  

Google to the rescue...  :wink:  :idea:


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## smootharc (Aug 2, 2005)

*They do have site, but not with the info....it's a $$ publication.*

I'd be happy to try to take a digital pic and sent to an e-mail, or copy and fax it to you.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2005)

*Re: They do have site, but not with the info....it's a $$ publication.*



			
				smootharc said:
			
		

> I'd be happy to try to take a digital pic and sent to an e-mail, or copy and fax it to you.



Sounds great.  Send me a PM when you get a chance.


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## Tyrolean_skier (Aug 2, 2005)

I've never been to Burke.  Looking at the trail map, it looks like it is a mountain mostly for intermediates.  Are there any challenging runs and how are the trees runs?  Are they easy to find or do you have to be a local to find them?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2005)

Tyrolean_skier said:
			
		

> I've never been to Burke.  Looking at the trail map, it looks like it is a mountain mostly for intermediates.  Are there any challenging runs and how are the trees runs?  Are they easy to find or do you have to be a local to find them?



The trees are incredible...more reliable than those at Jay that can get icy and/or inaccessible due to wind  :roll: 

As for the terrain difficulty, READ:  like Cannon, the grading at Burke is tougher than say Okemo.  Old school ratings...blues at Burke are blacks elsewhere.  

Besides that the tree runs are looooonnnnggggg and offer lots of vert.  A rare thing at many resorts.


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## riverc0il (Aug 2, 2005)

Tyrolean_skier said:
			
		

> I've never been to Burke.  Looking at the trail map, it looks like it is a mountain mostly for intermediates.


 :lol: 


> Are there any challenging runs and how are the trees runs?  Are they easy to find or do you have to be a local to find them?


burke has lots of great runs.  wilderness and dougs drop are two of the best expert bump runs in new england that usually have great snow and good lines.  ledges bumps up too in addition to a pair of blue squares below dougs.  nothing ultra tough, but certainly choice lines and gets the blood pumping.  fox's folly drops the lift line with lots of geological treats to play with, excellent.

the trees are phenomenal.  there are nearly a dozen glade runs on the map but i think only half of them are officially named.  likely there are other shots to be found upon closer inspection that are not mapped.  they range from gentle to steep, moderate to tight.  definitely blissful no matter which one you choose.

as trailboss said, the squares ski "upper intermediate" and are generally steeper than squares at an average mountain, a pair of blue squares even are allowed to bump up.  a quick glance at the trail map does scream cruiser mountain, but a closer look screams one of new england's best.

okay, i'll shut up now before the lift lines build up too much     :lol: 
 :dunce:


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## riverc0il (Aug 2, 2005)

maybe charlie can pipe in regarding the tour he got of burke's glades at last season's burke AZ gathering


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## thetrailboss (Aug 3, 2005)

Yep, speak to Charlie Schusseler or Bob R about their AZ Outing!  :beer:


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## bvibert (Aug 3, 2005)

I have to try and make it up there with some of you guys this year! :beer:


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## thetrailboss (Aug 3, 2005)

bvibert said:
			
		

> I have to try and make it up there with some of you guys this year! :beer:



Yes, sir, especially if I'm a Burke Ambassador or a regular passholder!  :beer:


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## highpeaksdrifter (Aug 3, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> bvibert said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What are the duties of an Amdassador at Burke? 
What are the perks?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 3, 2005)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> thetrailboss said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In the process of finding out...shheesshhh...


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## highpeaksdrifter (Aug 3, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> highpeaksdrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, I was just curious with how Burke compares to the deal we have at Whiteface.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 3, 2005)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> Sorry, I was just curious with how Burke compares to the deal we have at Whiteface.



What is that deal?  Maybe a PM might be a good idea  :wink:


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## highpeaksdrifter (Aug 3, 2005)

It's on the way.


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## Tyrolean_skier (Aug 3, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the great responses to my questions.  I am thinking of making the trip to ski this mountain in the near future.


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## Vortex (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm just a boring wide turns guy, but I popped into the woods here.  I had a blast.  I liked the wide open groomers. This place allowed my favorite ski term relevant. ( Hero Snow)  I guess my pont is RivercOil found the trees and bump runs that made him happy and I found some steep trails I could make turns on.  No crowds and a great vibe.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 4, 2005)

My thanks to Smootharc who sent me the article that appeared in the Vermont Property Owners Report on Burke.  To paraphrase the article, it states basically what we know...Burke 2000 has been in negotiation with someone, and the rumors/evidence points to Ginn.  



> One rumor making the rounds is that Ginn has plans to build a large, possibly "gated" community, with homes costing as much as $700,000 on land close to the Burke ski area.  Such a development would be a big change for Burke, which has a low-key atmosphere and a limited amount of development near the ski area.



So that part of the article put a pricetag on the homes that might be in the works.  My local connections said that the development would probably hit local opposition (not dissimiliar from that of the windfarms). 

It also mentions the recent Powderhorn Condo expansion and mentions that the final four units are under construction and are already sold.  

The article goes on to give details on the Haystack, Killington/Pico, and Okemo work.


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## Tin Woodsman (Aug 4, 2005)

> So that part of the article put a pricetag on the homes that might be in the works. My local connections said that the development would probably hit local opposition (not dissimiliar from that of the windfarms).



Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  If all that Ginn is planning to do is build a bunch of expensive slopeside homes, I'm not sure why people would be opposed.  At the end of the day, BMA won't be able to own and operate Burke indefinitely.  They simply don't have the resources to invest in the mountain that would enable it to compete with its better financed rivals.  As much as people want to deny it, for the vast majority of ski areas (read: those that don't rely on snowmaking), real-estate is what makes the money.

If Ginn can afford to invest in and operate Burke based on a subsidy from its profitable real estate, I don't understand what the problem is.  If Ginnn were going to jack up ticket prices and limit ticket sales in an attempt to make Burke some sirt of gated community, that would be one thing.  But I don't see any evidence of that being their plan.


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## riverc0il (Aug 4, 2005)

people are PISSED up here about recent tax increases for property.  that type of development would likely increase property values even more i would guess?  definitely would run into local opposition.  the flip side is the development and new homes would put money into the pocket of local business.  seems like this is a popular back and forth arguement up here.

Tin Woodsman lays down some science.  if a gated community is independant of the ski area and burke remains unchanged except being more financially stable with better lifts and snow making, i think everyone, including skiers and burke's long term success, wins.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 4, 2005)

what are the oppotunities to expansion to the skiers left from the summit.  I was looking at the ariel photo in the other thread and man, looks like some great pitch there.  I'm sure there's plentyo back country routes already being utilized.

note to self...


MUST SKI BURKE this winter


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## riverc0il (Aug 4, 2005)

deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps.  do a search.  there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 5, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps.  do a search.  there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.



my posts - 79

your posts - 1200something

sorry I hadn't read or searched it out before and missed something that had been talked about. I haven't spend as much time in these forums as you have.  It was simply a question from someone who knows very little about Burke, having never skied there.  I saw the Arial photo in the other post, got excited and asked a question.

Why not just answer my question with what you know, instead of suggesting I do a search?

I can promise you I know more about Stowe's terrain than pretty much anyone on these boards.  If someone who has never skied there posted a question, I'd answer it with what I know, not suggest I do a search because that particular topic had already been discussed.


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## riverc0il (Aug 5, 2005)

my response was probably a little too blunt which i do apologize for but let me explain.  it was a recent post, within the past two weeks actually.  i would not have suggested a search had the subject not been discussed so recently.  so i suggested searching because the topic already came up very recently on this forum (while you were a member i might add).  i did not answer your questions because i know nothing about the once proposed expansion but remember reading it on this site.  also, i didn't feel like doing the search myself when it was readily available to any one looking for the information.

any ways, i decided to find it for you any ways.  it's in this very thread on page #4 & #5..........


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2005)

Tin Woodsman said:
			
		

> Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.  If all that Ginn is planning to do is build a bunch of expensive slopeside homes, I'm not sure why people would be opposed.  At the end of the day, BMA won't be able to own and operate Burke indefinitely.  They simply don't have the resources to invest in the mountain that would enable it to compete with its better financed rivals.  As much as people want to deny it, for the vast majority of ski areas (read: those that don't rely on snowmaking), real-estate is what makes the money.
> 
> If Ginn can afford to invest in and operate Burke based on a subsidy from its profitable real estate, I don't understand what the problem is.  If Ginnn were going to jack up ticket prices and limit ticket sales in an attempt to make Burke some sirt of gated community, that would be one thing.  But I don't see any evidence of that being their plan.



Just to respond to this and riverc0il's points...from being a native, I can tell you that like other parts of VT, the political and social climate is a bit more complex...

As you know, we have two large groups--the natives and the folks who have relocated.  

The natives, by and large, are not wealthy and live on family land or have familial ties to the area.  They work hard, are friendly, and we can be a bit cynical  :wink:   Many locals, particularly business folk, are envious of the development and economic boom that is happening in Littleton, NH.  In fact, the NEK is more like NH politically than the rest of VT.  So many locals want to see development for the jobs and good livings but they don't want to see an influx of other people (the cynical side) or want to see the area change too much.  In their view, more outsiders means more demands on town governments that are stretched too thin as well as controversies regarding how things 'should be done' :roll:   So in sum, the locals would want to see Burke succeed and grow, just as long as their is economic benefits without too much traffic or dramatic change  :wink: 

Now the recently relocated folk, who are comically dubbed things such as "flatlanders," or "implants" usually are against ANY kind of development because it will sully their views of the hills.  They are usually folks who are pretty well-off and have come up to retire or have a second home.  They DON'T need an income or work, so they are not as concerned about the economic opportunities.  They have an image of the NEK as a bucolic rural escape and whenever someone proposes a change to that view they use every means possible to halt it.  They see living up in the NEK as "cheap" because they bring money from other places (and as a result when they tell their friends of their new home, more people will come up and push up the prices on homes thus pricing many locals out...but that's another story).  Even though many of these folks claim to be "open minded," many can't understand the locals or their lifestyles and thus create animosity.  The NEK is a place where, by and large, things are still done on a volunteer basis.  There is only one or two professional fire departments and policing is thin because the area is so geographically large.  When things need to be done, locals band together and get it done which contrasts to other parts of the country where the attitude is "get out the checkbook and pay someone else to do it."  So to sum, outsiders are OPPOSED to any development and want things to remain "a pretty haven," they demand more public services, and they have a hard time getting along with the natives who are struggling to make ends meet (on on average income of $15-25k per person...poorest part of VT).  

So, somehow Burke must appease both camps.  The current regime has realized what many others did not...the locals are an important part of the mountain because when the weekend forecast mentions MAYBE rain on one night, the big-shots in Boston and NYC will cancel their trips up while locals will jump at the chance to ski on any Sunday.  Thus, there are many good local promotions at the mountain and it has remained fairly accessible.  The management has listened to the wishes of local skiers and riders (instead of building Bavarian Castles).  

Burke needs infrastructure changes, no doubt.  But both camps don't want to see the terrain, character, or the people of Burke change.  The one way to do that would be a partnership between Burke 2000 and Ginn that allows for improvements to the ski area, which is run by Burke 2000, while Ginn focuses on their real estate ventures on the mountain.  There has been some thought that this might be the direction that the mountain is heading (as evidenced by Gwatkin's term, "partnership" in the AZ challenge), but at the very least, Burke management has expressed to the future buyer(s) its hopes that the mountain remain accessible to the local communities at its base.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Aug 5, 2005)

deadheadskier said:
			
		

> riverc0il said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and great terrain it is. It's always kinda supprised me how little run Stowe gets in AZ. Everybody is always talking da Bush, but hardly ever Stowe.


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## riverc0il (Aug 5, 2005)

i can't speak for the others, but stowe is outta my price range.  i still think $50 is too expensive though.  a lot of people love to rag on stratton, but i think stowe is second highest in new england for lift tickets.  then again, i also don't ski da bush often because it is also rather pricey.  i'll be earning turns at stowe no doubt though.

back on topic though, da boss paints the picture well.  though i honestly haven't seen much animosity between imports and natives, being an "import" myself.  though there may be other reasons for that.  suffice to say, it's easy to sum up: the locals are all for anything that keeps the area quintisentially theirs while also increasing economic opportunity.  i was first really nurvous when i heard about the burke development, but now i can foresee an ideal solution in which everyone comes up happy.  hopefully burke and the development company and all involved are thinking upon those lines.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2005)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> deadheadskier said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, if you can afford Stowe, then ski there. :wink:   A lot of the folks who frequent there don't partake in things such as AZ.  
It's an incredible place from what I've seen and I've heard lots of good things regarding their terrain, but at $67 a day, that's TWO weekdays at Burke and Jay.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Aug 5, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> highpeaksdrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was wondering in writing about Sugarbush v. Stowe. Lift tickets and season passes seem comparablely priced at both Sugarbush and Stowe. There seems to be a lot of Azers who ski SB all the time and Stowe is rarely mentioned.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 5, 2005)

Stowe is indeed pricey for the the day tripper.  I lived and worked in town for about five winters and if the business you worked for was a member of the local Chamber of Commerce, you could get a midweek season's pass for $250.00 - which was a heckuva deal.

Since moving up to Burlington I no longer have that option and $600 for a midweek pass is hard to justify for the amount I'm able to ski.  However, if you work in the hospitality industry, you can ski for FREE the first Thursday of every month.  Also $25 Vermonter days happen a few times each winter.

Sugarbush North you can ski every wednesday for $25.

I was actually a bit upset with Jay's change in Vermonter policy.  In winter's past you could ski Wednesday's there for $25.  This past winter it was $37 everyday.  It certainly offers more flexibility, but not quite as good of a deal as the old Wednesday deal.

Bolton had a coupon on the seven days newspaper for a $20 ticket, so I hit that up last winter to.

Next winter I plan on doing all of the above deals again, plus add on a Smuggs Bash Badge plus.  Its $139.00 and you can ski any day for $20, plus you get to ski for free the first two weeks of the season and the last six weeks, and March in my opinion is the best ski month out of the year.

Off topic, but figured I'd share the deals I'm aware of.


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## Masskier (Aug 5, 2005)

TB
Thanks for explaining the local climate at Burke.  Its an interesting place.  I find the people the friendliest that you will find anywhere.

About the Vermont Property Owners Report article 

“It also mentions the recent Powderhorn Condo expansion and mentions that the final four units are under construction and are already sold.”

There are still  two Powderhorn Condo units for sale


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## thetrailboss (Aug 11, 2005)

*This* just in from Burke...the latest pics 

Cheers!

:beer:


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## nekgirl (Aug 22, 2005)

little update, snowmaking pipe arrived today.


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## ski_resort_observer (Aug 22, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> people are PISSED up here about recent tax increases for property.  that type of development would likely increase property values even more i would guess?  definitely would run into local opposition.  the flip side is the development and new homes would put money into the pocket of local business.  seems like this is a popular back and forth arguement up here.



 :lol: Welcome to Vermont. Wait till you try to figure out Act 60 in regards to your taxes.


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## riverc0il (Aug 22, 2005)

i am currently renting, but s'all good.  coming from metro boston area, VT can tax me to death once i own a home a few years down the road, and i'll still shrug.

interestingly enough, there is a lift class being taught at LSC by one of the folks working at burke.  the class is going to be able to witness the installation and stuff like the cable splice first hand!  pretty cool first hand learning experience for people in that major!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 22, 2005)

nekgirl said:
			
		

> little update, snowmaking pipe arrived today.



Awesome!  Thanks for that.  HKD towers and new compressors coming soon?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 22, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> interestingly enough, there is a lift class being taught at LSC by one of the folks working at burke.  the class is going to be able to witness the installation and stuff like the cable splice first hand!  pretty cool first hand learning experience for people in that major!



Yes, gotta love Rec Majors at LSC :beer:  The Ski Resort Management Program is cool and tops.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 31, 2005)

OK, just received updates from Burke...three main sources.

First, The Caledonian Record writes in *THIS* article that Ginn has been given approval by the PSB to purchase the private water company that Burke Mountain owns...which suggests that the company is one step closer to buying the whole mountain.  

Second, Burke sent out an E-mail regarding season passes and saying that the footings and foundations for the new lift have been poured.  Snowmaking pipe has come in.  

Last, from a source at the mountain, pics have been posted and updated on the *Construction Pics Site*.  No surprise the new lift will be green.


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## nekgirl (Sep 1, 2005)

THe Sherburne Express Arrives    another part anyway!  
http://www.skiburke.com/gallery.htm...substat=Construction&sstat=&ref=43&startval=2


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## tree_skier (Sep 1, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i am currently renting, but s'all good.  coming from metro boston area, VT can tax me to death once i own a home a few years down the road, and i'll still shrug.
> 
> !



From someone who is being taxed to death shrugging is all you can do. I tried screaming and hollering but it was like taking to a brick wall with dean and shumlin.  When you live in a town with few votes you have no say.  Not only has Act 60/68 tripled my property tax but it also added to many other taxes including the gas tax and the net result is my children's school has been decimated by budget cuts and I need to find an extra 3-4 thousand dollars a year for taxes. :angry:


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## thetrailboss (Sep 1, 2005)

nekgirl said:
			
		

> THe Sherburne Express Arrives    another part anyway!
> http://www.skiburke.com/gallery.htm...substat=Construction&sstat=&ref=43&startval=2



No surprise on the name or the colors :wink:


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## thetrailboss (Sep 3, 2005)

I just read *the latest article on Burke Mountain* in today's Caledonian Record.  Mixed reactions to the mountain's plans, but almost certain that Ginn is moving forward o at least 'merge' with Burke 2000.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 5, 2005)

I thought it would be interesting to add some more historical context to this thread on Burke's expansion, so I've scanned the article on Burke from the Winter 1977 Vermont Life Magazine for you to all read and enjoy (hopefully you can read it...).  Here it is and notice how much has and how much has not changed!  :wink:


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## thetrailboss (Sep 7, 2005)

Any other updates?


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## Greg (Sep 9, 2005)

David Gwatkin sent me this last week:



			
				David Gwatkin said:
			
		

> A section of the loading terminal for the new high-speed Sherburne Express
> quad chairlift arrives at Burke Mountain yesterday.  Lift components are
> being constructed in Colorado by the Leitner-Poma Company and shipped to
> Burke.  The lift will be ready for 2005/06 season.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 9, 2005)

That's what we like to see here on AZ!!!


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## riverc0il (Sep 9, 2005)

yup, pretty much the entire loading terminal was on the ground outside the lodge when i was there last weekend.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 18, 2005)

Word has it from my unofficial sources that there will be a press release/major announcement regarding the future of the mountain.  Stay tuned.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 20, 2005)

Just talking to another Burke local and he/she really spelled out what Burke is all about:  



> I think Burke Mountain is an undiscovered gem and I hope that development won't spoil it. I know that development can provide jobs and keep the mountain open for those who love it. The academy needs the mountain to train on and countless school children use the mountain to get their first taste of skiing (a luxury that most working class families could not afford to provide for their children). On Burke, every one is equal. It's all about the love of being on the mountain- out on the trails-wind on your face, having fun with your friends or going off on your own inthe glades to enjoy the solitude. You don't have to be rich, you just need skis, or snow shoes and an adventurous spirit. I hope that never changes.



Some food for thought while we wait to hear what will happen to our beloved mountain.  

Long live Burke :beer:


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## Birdman829 (Sep 20, 2005)

What is with areas putting high speed quads that don't bring you anywhere?  I can't stand skiing on the main part of attitash now because the lift to the top is agonizingly slow and the high speed quad doesn't service any useable terrain.  Whenever I'm there I spend the whole day on Bear Peak.  I hope Burke plans on putting one in that goes to the summit or the same thing will happen at Burke.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 20, 2005)

Birdman829 said:
			
		

> What is with areas putting high speed quads that don't bring you anywhere?  I can't stand skiing on the main part of attitash now because the lift to the top is agonizingly slow and the high speed quad doesn't service any useable terrain.  Whenever I'm there I spend the whole day on Bear Peak.  I hope Burke plans on putting one in that goes to the summit or the same thing will happen at Burke.



Read the earlier posts in this thread with regards to Burke's situation...

In sum, the current aim is to sell real estate at the BASE of the mountain, where most of the units are.  Put up an HSQ down there, more people will buy theoretically.  So if you build it they will come.  Second, as discussed as well, Burke has an old Midway lodge that could be renovated/torn down and started over again really soon.  If that was out of service for a season, it is best to have an HSQ from the base to get people up quicker if that lodge is offline.  

And yes, there was mention in the AZ Challenge by Burke officials that *if* this merger/buyout/regime change/heist/takeover/whatever goes through, next order of business is the summit quad.  As it stands the double was slower and older.

As for the general resort set-up for other places, the strategy assumes that most skiers will be at the bottom of the mountain, with the most terrain to spread out as opposed to the summit where there is less terrain and more expert terrain.  It is literally like a pyramid...the base literally representing the base of the mountain...with more terrain, traffic, etc and the summit being the opposite.  At least this is what LBO and his crew noticed.  Get folks up and spread them out over all of the mountain rather than have them go to the top and ski straight down.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 22, 2005)

Another reason why the summit quad is not an HSQ is the steep terrain.  Very steep liftline, especially over Mid Fox's Folly where it is very steep and narrow.  The terrain also does not have adequate snowmaking to handle an influx of traffic.


----------



## awf170 (Sep 22, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> The terrain also does not have adequate snowmaking to handle an influx of traffic.



Didnt you hear, HSQ's and fixed grip have the same capacity.  So they only days the amount of traffic will go up is days when there are no lines, so that everyone does laps faster


----------



## riverc0il (Sep 22, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Another reason why the summit quad is not an HSQ is the steep terrain.  Very steep liftline, especially over Mid Fox's Folly where it is very steep and narrow.  The terrain also does not have adequate snowmaking to handle an influx of traffic.


i dunno about that.  that liftline isn't really that steep.  i love fox's, but it really isn't what i would call steep.  even compared to other liftlines.  they could definitely drop a HSQ over fox's easy.  i don't think burke will ever see enough traffic to need to worry about the effects of a HSQ on conditions.

though a HSQ may not increase downhill capacity at burke, it certainly will increase trail wear as i have never once seen the current quad run at capacity which means skiers will get more runs in because of a faster lift.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 25, 2005)

The current quad has a capacity of about 1600 skiers per hour.  An HSQ on the same path would be about 2000, so if I've done the math right, that is MORE capacity.  

Burke Update:  

Just spoke with one of my friends up there.  Major renovations to the lower lodge--new restaurant and interior work.  They are repainting the lodges to a Taupe color instead of the gray.  Dances will be once again held at the upper lodge on Saturday nights.  

New quad is coming along...still waiting for news regarding the future of the mountain.

Currently there are 75-80 HKD towers sitting in the parking lot awaiting installation on the mountain.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 25, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Another reason why the summit quad is not an HSQ is the steep terrain.  Very steep liftline, especially over Mid Fox's Folly where it is very steep and narrow.  The terrain also does not have adequate snowmaking to handle an influx of traffic.



I'm not sure if I understand what you're getting at here. Are you saying the terrain from the top is too steep and narrow to handle an influx of riders or are you saying that the liftline is too steep to run a HSQ up?


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## awf170 (Sep 25, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> The current quad has a capacity of about 1600 skiers per hour.  An HSQ on the same path would be about 2000, so if I've done the math right, that is MORE capacity.



OIC, forget how slow that quad was, but still that is not that much more capacity.  But the speed being more than double as fast will probably get things tracked out way faster because there is rarely a line.  So I guess it should stay the way it is


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## thetrailboss (Sep 25, 2005)

deadheadskier said:
			
		

> thetrailboss said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Both actually :wink:  I was saying the latter.  The new lift will have to have significantly more hp to get the chairs up.  If you look at the *current quad*, you can see that she climbs literally chair-over-chair up to the skyline there.  It is a consistent pitch at the very least, may not be as steep as say...the headwall at Jay...but still pretty steep.  

And yes, awf170, there are high capacity fixed grip quads, such as at Burke, Jay, and Sugarloaf.  They can pack a lot of people, but they are slower.


----------



## riverc0il (Sep 25, 2005)

charlie, myself, and bob r in the current quad pic TB referenced :beer: though i still think you are exagerating the steepness of the lift line trail.  it's fairly mellow compared to many other lift lines in new england.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 25, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> charlie, myself, and bob r in the current quad pic TB referenced :beer: though i still think you are exagerating the steepness of the lift line trail.  it's fairly mellow compared to many other lift lines in new england.



OK, I will concede that, but it is consistently steep for the first 2/3 in comparison to other lines which have flat plateaus or other sections.

My main point is that it will take a powerful engine to send chairs up that incline and back down.  Lift technology amazes me...it really does...

The lower HSQ will only have 400 hp.  The summit one will need more...much more...and will probably have to be configured differently for the weight and incline.  Sugarbush's Slide Brook is a true beast of an HSQ.


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 28, 2005)

The Mountain has just posted an *update* on their website.  New pic shows the new chairs lined up and the base station pretty much completed.  The site says that the Leitner-Poma Lift will have an 1,800 pph rating, which is triple the double's 600 pph rating.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 3, 2005)

Just an *article updating the situation*.  Nothing new to report from what I've been told, but now confirmation that Ginn is 'most likely' the company that will take operating control of the mountain.  We have heard no official confirmation as to what is going on up there.  

The main thrust of the article confirms things that I had heard from a source two weeks ago...


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## riverc0il (Oct 4, 2005)

http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=gallery5362

pics from last week.  a lot more color this week than when these pics were shot.  pic of the unload station in the mid-burke lot.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 4, 2005)

Huh...just went to the Burke Mountain *Website* and it is locked :blink:  Cuing me for a password...maybe movement with the new partner?  Maybe the 'lockdown' to a private ski area has begun :lol:


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## halfpintvt (Oct 5, 2005)

*Burke Mountain Password????*

I called Burke Mountain this morning and they said that they did not put a password on their website.  Their web master is trying to fix the problem.  Maybe they've been hacked.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: Burke Mountain Password????*



			
				halfpintvt said:
			
		

> I called Burke Mountain this morning and they said that they did not put a password on their website.  Their web master is trying to fix the problem.  Maybe they've been hacked.



Maybe it was a joke or something...

Great to have you here, halfpintvt!


----------



## nekgirl (Oct 6, 2005)

it's fixed, with new flashing photos on the front page!


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## thetrailboss (Oct 6, 2005)

nekgirl said:
			
		

> it's fixed, with new flashing photos on the front page!



Love the pics and site, NEK Girl.  Thanks for keeping us Burke locals in the know on AZ!  :beer:


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## Masskier (Oct 16, 2005)

I was up at Burke last week.  They are doing a major and complete renovation of the Base lodge.  The cafeteria is completely gone and just about everything else.  They built a large deck on the j-bar side.  It is going to be quite nice when they are done.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 16, 2005)

Masskier said:
			
		

> I was up at Burke last week.  They are doing a major and complete renovation of the Base lodge.  The cafeteria is completely gone and just about everything else.  They built a large deck on the j-bar side.  It is going to be quite nice when they are done.



Any pics?  Any word about what is going on with ownership/etc?


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## Masskier (Oct 16, 2005)

No pics,  I also hiked up to the top of the new lift.  they cut a new trail down to the Quad.  A esaier and safer way down for beginners.  All of the new tower snow guns are still up at mid burke. No updates on the pending sale.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 21, 2005)

Hmmmm...still waiting to hear specs on construction and exactly who owns what up there :-?


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## thetrailboss (Oct 24, 2005)

No word...but *HERE* are some pics from the mountain (first snow).


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## thetrailboss (Oct 27, 2005)

Burke just released their *Day Ticket Rates*.  

What are your thoughts?

They also are releasing some more *information* including changes.  New restaurant called "Tamarack Grill" in Sherburne Base Lodge.  Dashney Mile also will now have a terrain park on it :blink:  So they added snowmaking to this trail I assume since it wasn't there to begin with?  Edit...just read...snowmaking on all lower mountain trails which makes sense considering that they have added the new HSQ.  I like Dashney, but it is flat.  New groomer has been added as well.  Lots of work...


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## riverc0il (Oct 27, 2005)

minor increase over last year and still competitive with other like minded great skiing destinations with no frills (cannon, wildcat, magic, mrg, etc.).  considering the higher energy costs, a HSQ, and increased snow making, i think a $3 increase is reasonable.

burke was definitely in need of more terrain features.  they never seemed to get much going previously.

also notice the new logo which i had heard rumor about recently.  no more burkie the bear 

everything sounds great to me!  burke was looking very very white this afternoon from LSC.  the clouds lifted briefly and the mountain was coated in white.  excellent.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2005)

*BURKE UPDATE*

I went up to the NEK today to get the skis, check out Burke, visit family, and go to the big St. J/LI game.  I honestly was not prepared for what I saw at Burke.  

First stop was lower mountain.  The base lodge has been repainted from Gray to a taupe.  New roof it appears.  The wing on the S side of the building is gone and they appear to be working on a new addition.  At this point, they only had a floor down and no walls.  Poma/Leitner have taken up the lower lot and had the cross arms and sheaves assembled and ready to be put on.  I believe there were about 15 cross arms.  No chairs in site.  They had some chairlift components on a trailer connected to a skidder ready to be hauled up.  Lots of containers/trailers for parts.  

Front stairway at Sherburne Base Lodge is being completely redone.  The concrete steps have been removed and they were getting ready to lay down some new ones.  Lots of snow/mud in the landing in area in front of the lodge.  Work has been taking place on the base terminal, which is near completion.  They are placing a lift operations shack on the left hand side of the lift.  Pylons are in place and only later did I notice that Poma is recycling the old Hall pylons which makes sense considering that they were pretty heavy-duty (designed for a double-double).  The liftline is clear and it appeared that they were working on the summit terminal.  Ladders and hardware have been added to the pylons.  Cross arms are next.  Chairs, again, not in sight.  

A 15-minute hike up the Dashney Mile/High Meadows trail revealed some fresh excavation and *new snowmaking lines* that run up Dashney Mile.  Much excavation had been done again.  

Contractors were working on the inside of the lodge.  

I drove up to MidBurke to find a small crowd of hikers, skiers, boarders, and visitors.  Snow was about ankle deep and had settled.  Folks were hiking for turns on Lower Warren's.  Lights on in MidBurke and work going on inside.  New roof and paint.  

Summit terminal of the HSQ is sitting in the parking lot in pieces.  

Beside the components were 7 crates of 18 HKD towers waiting to be assembled, which makes about 130 new HKD towers for the mountain.  

The maintenance lot was FULL of containers for hardware and parts as well as bulldozers and excavators from "Royal Trail Construction," out of Royalton, Vermont (a firm specializing in ski area work I take it).  :blink:  What was dramatic was the line of dumptrucks assembled and moving from MidBurke along a new dirt road in front of the lodge, down to the Willoughby Quad, and snaking in front of the quad and up the new trail to the old double summit terminal.  In essence, Burke has built a new maintenace road for the HSQ terminal from this lodge to where it will rest...no small undertaking   Crews were bulldozing and hauling dirt along the road.  A team of welders and contractors had been working in front of this lodge with sections of new snowmaking line--looked like either 6 or 8 inch diameter line--and it was clear they had hauled the pipe from here and up the new trail, which is barely noticeable from MidBurke.  Looks like a nice, easy run with high banks. Crews were working in the snowmaking compressor house (under the quad) with a high lift/crane--probably installing new compressors/pumps.  A lot of activity.   

So I was stoked to see snow on the mountain and some real construction going on...big time construction.  Lots of local companies working up there.


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## RIDEr (Oct 30, 2005)

Great write up TrailBoss.  See you up there.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 3, 2005)

Word has it from one of my sources is that there has been no movement on the merger deal as of yet...

:-?


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## stomachdoc (Nov 3, 2005)

Hey 'boss...

So if there's no merger, where did the money come from to do all of the work?  I can't imagine it came from the pockets of BMA


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2005)

stomachdoc said:
			
		

> Hey 'boss...
> 
> So if there's no merger, where did the money come from to do all of the work?  I can't imagine it came from the pockets of BMA



No, there has been NO FURTHER MOVES regarding the merger. :wink: 

As for $$$$, the work was done by Burke 2000 LLC...

I don't know who is funding it...have heard that it was Ginn, also have seen in the paper a few years ago that the mountain had attempted at least once to get a VEDA grant.  Maybe that :-?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2005)

Doubt we are going to hear what is happening up there for a loooooonnnnngggggg time :-?  



			
				The Caledonian Record said:
			
		

> David Gwatkin spoke on behalf of Burke Mountain Operating Company in East Burke, *and said he had no news on rumors of a possible new owner for the ski area, but said he hoped to have a press release in another month or two.*
> 
> Gwatkin listed a brand new detachable chair lift, increased snowmaking pumping capacity, 75 new snow guns and a new restaurant as some of the recent developments at the ski area. This February the ski area will celebrate Burke Mountain's 50th anniversary as a modern ski area, he said.



*SOURCE*

This is starting to become a search for Jimmy Hoffa or something...:lol:


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## madskier6 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Burke Mtn Marketing*

While driving home from work this evening, I noticed while listening to my local NPR station (88.5 WFCR - Amherst, MA) that Burke Mountain is an underwriter of the station.  Not an advertiser since NPR doesn't really do that but a supporter/underwriter.

Has anyone else noticed that phenomenon in your area?  The reception area for WFCR extends from Southern VT into Northern CT with all of Western MA covered so it definitely makes sense.  

I'm just curious about the extent of Burke's marketing.  Supporting NPR is definitely a good move and consistent with Burke's profile by emphasizing quality over quantity.

BTW, when is the AZ outing at Burke this year?  I definitely want to hit it as I am a Burke newbie and have heard such good things about it.  Have you Burke(ies) set a date yet?


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## bvibert (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Burke Mtn Marketing*



			
				madskier6 said:
			
		

> BTW, when is the AZ outing at Burke this year?  I definitely want to hit it as I am a Burke newbie and have heard such good things about it.  Have you Burke(ies) set a date yet?



Keep an eye on the *Trips & Events Forum*.  AFAIK there aren't any dates set yet except for the 11th at Killington.  Burke is definitely on the list though!


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## thetrailboss (Nov 8, 2005)

The drama continues....

Today's *article*


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## riverc0il (Nov 8, 2005)

i saw that today, frontpage on the paper with a map pointing out where burke and the proposed tower was.  the interesting aspect of the article is regarding the location of the tower related to burke.  the tower faces the beast bowl section of the mountain.  in other words, it wouldn't be much of a visual issue from most spots on the mountain.  but if they are planning on building up the east bowl (which was elluded to in the article), that could be a potential "eye sore" for guests skiing in the bowl.  that would assume 'trails' would be opened up and a lift put in.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 8, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i saw that today, frontpage on the paper with a map pointing out where burke and the proposed tower was.  the interesting aspect of the article is regarding the location of the tower related to burke.  the tower faces the beast bowl section of the mountain.  in other words, it wouldn't be much of a visual issue from most spots on the mountain.  but if they are planning on building up the east bowl (which was elluded to in the article), that could be a potential "eye sore" for guests skiing in the bowl.  that would assume 'trails' would be opened up and a lift put in.



In between the East Bowl and Pinkham Road is a large plot of land that a certain 'someone' has purchased and would like to develop in connection with the mountain.  That is where the concern lies.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 8, 2005)

Channel 3 WCAX also ran a story about Burke...

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4090374


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2005)

More news from the mountain...*Today's article*.  Even mentions that the new chef of the Tamarack Restaurant is a former Ginn Chef... :-?


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## riverc0il (Nov 11, 2005)

again, front page on the printed version of the cal rec today.  really interesting article with a few new tid bits, but not too much new news.  the article references the tamarack place as a place for the locals to go.  then it mentions $16-20 entree prices, which means when you include a drink, tax, and tip, you are talking at least $30 per person per meal  i know i won't be eatting there and i have a rare decent paying job for these parts.  this is clearly a requirement by ginn & co.  they need a very nice well to do restaurant for the rich tourists.  that's cool!  bet tell it like it is man!  the ginn connection with the chef is kinda blatent.  obviously ginn is calling the shots for burke right now and they won't sign the line until burke is the way they want it to be.

i liked the addition of having folks available to help families with their gear to the lodge.  that is a REALLY GREAT IDEA.  makes a place really family friendly.  with a repaved lot and new ski school building, burke is really paving the way to be THE PLACE for great uncrowded skiing for the family in VT.  seriously, i think i see some really good signs here folks.

the only thing that bothers me is the seperate building for brown baggers and turning the lodge into more of a restaurant.  i saw this approach at crotched and i did not like it one bit.  i don't mind seperate areas for brown baggers, but seperate but equal please!  not a seperate building squeezed in with the ski school (the building dimensions are really small for both ski school and a cafe).  what if i decide i want to buy some fries to go with my sandwich?  i gotta go over to the real lodge?  um, yea.  fortunately, mid-burke to remain unchanged!
 :beer:

pretty much, lots of great news all around.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> again, front page on the printed version of the cal rec today.  really interesting article with a few new tid bits, but not too much new news.  the article references the tamarack place as a place for the locals to go.  then it mentions $16-20 entree prices, which means when you include a drink, tax, and tip, you are talking at least $30 per person per meal  i know i won't be eatting there and i have a rare decent paying job for these parts.



Depends on your definition of 'local' I guess :roll:  Yeah, those prices are high by Vermont standards and by NEK standards.  They have in the past been quite good to locals by offering midweek specials and other deals...so we can hope.  



> this is clearly a requirement by ginn & co.  they need a very nice well to do restaurant for the rich tourists.  that's cool!  bet tell it like it is man!  the ginn connection with the chef is kinda blatent.  obviously ginn is calling the shots for burke right now and they won't sign the line until burke is the way they want it to be.



Agreed.  There is some kind of partnership right now...property is being purchased I have heard...ironic considering that the resort was 'divested' in 2000 and now they are putting it all back together again.  Who would have thought?  



> i liked the addition of having folks available to help families with their gear to the lodge.  that is a REALLY GREAT IDEA.  makes a place really family friendly.  with a repaved lot and new ski school building, burke is really paving the way to be THE PLACE for great uncrowded skiing for the family in VT.  seriously, i think i see some really good signs here folks.



They are regrading the parking lot and putting in stone and staymat, but not paving it...and they were fixing the stairs for the lower lodge :beer:  These changes and attention to detail are consistent with what I had heard was coming down the pike...



> the only thing that bothers me is the seperate building for brown baggers and turning the lodge into more of a restaurant.  i saw this approach at crotched and i did not like it one bit.  i don't mind seperate areas for brown baggers, but seperate but equal please!  not a seperate building squeezed in with the ski school (the building dimensions are really small for both ski school and a cafe).  what if i decide i want to buy some fries to go with my sandwich?  i gotta go over to the real lodge?  um, yea.  fortunately, mid-burke to remain unchanged!
> :beer:



Now, as I can tell you, the Supreme Court ruled in Plessey vs. Ferguson that "seperate and equal has no place" in our society :lol:  Could not resist to use my education.  Seriously though...I did not interpret it that way...just for the midweek school groups which makes sense because honestly they have A LOT of school kids that come up, which I am glad to see will continue.  I did not know that they were putting up Yurts...thought it was an expansion of the lodge and it could very well be.  

Good article...


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2005)

For those who want to read the article, here it is:



			
				The Caledonian Record said:
			
		

> Opening Planned For Dec. 10
> 
> Burke Mountain Ski Area Readies For Coming Season
> 
> ...


----------



## riverc0il (Nov 11, 2005)

> Outside the base lodge workers were busy putting up a yurt-shaped building which Gwatkin described as a "sprung structure." This semi-permanent 30- by 60-foot, heated structure will be the home of the ski program for local schoolchildren *and* will provide a place for people who bring their lunches to eat.


we shall see, i don't like the way that is worded.  especially when combined with the restaurant style lodge in which they are trying to go crotched style and force all bags out of the "dinig area."  sounds like they are going to ask brown baggers to step outside the way i am reading it but who knows, we'll find out.  thanks for the clarification on paving...  i know they weren't paving it... just typed the wrong thing while the stream of consciousness was going.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 11, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> > Outside the base lodge workers were busy putting up a yurt-shaped building which Gwatkin described as a "sprung structure." This semi-permanent 30- by 60-foot, heated structure will be the home of the ski program for local schoolchildren *and* will provide a place for people who bring their lunches to eat.
> 
> 
> we shall see, i don't like the way that is worded.  especially when combined with the restaurant style lodge in which they are trying to go crotched style and force all bags out of the "dinig area."  sounds like they are going to ask brown baggers to step outside the way i am reading it but who knows, we'll find out.  thanks for the clarification on paving...  i know they weren't paving it... just typed the wrong thing while the stream of consciousness was going.



Non-issue for both you and me since we spend most of the time at Mid Burke anyways...but I do see this now...I still interpret it more as the "school program" place.  I think that the new restaurant is going to be upstairs like the previous crew had done...this is supported by this statement:



> "The whole base lodge is getting a face lift," Gwatkin said. Inside, a coffee shop and baggage area are planned for *the main level. Keeping equipment and bags out of the cafeteria area *will allow for a more restaurant-like atmosphere, he said.



And...


> *Upstairs, preparations are under way for a new restaurant called the Tamarack Grill* which will serve Vermont products, including local beef, and offer entrees ranging between $16 and $20. "We really want the local folks to come up," Gwatkin said.



That's upstairs as in the pub.  

I don't care if ski bags are moved out of the lower lodge simply because that lodge is a mess with the round tables and chairs as it is...doesn't work as well as say rectangular tables.


----------



## sledhaulingmedic (Nov 11, 2005)

*Re: Burke Mtn Marketing*



			
				madskier6 said:
			
		

> While driving home from work this evening, I noticed while listening to my local NPR station (88.5 WFCR - Amherst, MA) that Burke Mountain is an underwriter of the station.  Not an advertiser since NPR doesn't really do that but a supporter/underwriter.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that phenomenon in your area?  The reception area for WFCR extends from Southern VT into Northern CT with all of Western MA covered so it definitely makes sense.
> 
> I'm just curious about the extent of Burke's marketing.  Supporting NPR is definitely a good move and consistent with Burke's profile by emphasizing quality over quantity.



I believe (I'd have to do a licence search) that Vermont Public Radio has a transmitter on the summit of Burke.  I would guess that it is an "In Kind" donation.


----------



## riverc0il (Nov 11, 2005)

the restauarant is indeed upstairs, but downstairs is getting a face lift.  in the section you quoted, it specifically says



> Keeping equipment and bags out of the cafeteria area will allow for a more restaurant-like atmosphere, he said.


obviously, if you are interested in a true ski lodge experience, mid-burke is the way to go.  i have a feeling mid-burke will see A LOT less traffic with the high speed quad and refurbished sherburne lodge.  if it wasn't for the 'improvements', i would likely do sherburne from here on out to save the drive up to mid-burke.  the HSQ would be faster than the round about drive up to mid-burke, that certainly wasn't true with the old double! :lol:


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## thetrailboss (Nov 12, 2005)

I'm not convinced though that the lower lodge floor will be bag-lunch free though...I think that they are going for an atmosphere where it is more open for those who want to sit and eat at the cafeteria...a cafeteria and a restaurant are two different things IMHO.


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## halfpintvt (Nov 23, 2005)

*Update Regarding Ginn Development Co*

I posted this in a seperate topic but now I think it belongs here. Sorry for the double post. I am new to the ways of forum posting.


The following job opening has been posted on several executive job search sites as of Nov 18, 2005.

Just food for thought. Have a great Thanksgiving.
Think snow!! Ski Burke, buy a season pass!

Halfpintvt


Controller
Ginn Development Company
East Burke, VT[/quote] Bachelor�s degree (B.A.) from four-year college or university Directs and maintains procedures and controls in the reporting of resort revenues, in the collection of accounts and strict adherence to approved accounting policies, procedures and practices. Provides financial management and leadership responsibilities related to the compilation of costing and management data in the ongoing development of the business enterprise in the Vermont Development including cash and fixed asset management through direct reporting or management of additional resources. - Assures compliance with internal controls and corporate accounting policies. - Authorizes accounting related documents according to S.O.P. - Prepares and/or reviews reports as requested to develop a more informative database for improved management decision making and critical evaluation of work activit

ies, including monthly operating statements, quarterly operating and analysis reports as required. - Optimizes cash flow in accordance with policy. Ensures collection of accounts receivable and reviews accounts payables to approve cash disbursements. - Ensure project job cost sub-ledger costs-to-date are maintained in compliance with Corporate policy in conjunction with the regional development project team for effective decision-making and management. - Maintain current project budgets and project estimated final costs in the financial systems provided; and reporting changes in budget or final cost estimates to Regional Leadership in an accurate and timely manner. - Assist in identification and management of risk associated with operations and development in coordination with Corporate Risk Management team. - Additional defined responsibilities as assigned.

Primary reporting function is supervised by the Division Controller, Ginn Hospitality in management of policies and function related to operations. This is an Executive support role to the General Manager of resort operations in management of the facility as well as development of additional business models to supplement existing operations.

In addition, financial management of information related to the ongoing development of the Corporate business model including additional asset acquisition and improvements provided by the Director of Financial Operations, NC Region and Regional President of Development, NC Region. May manage up to 6-10 employees in the Accounting and Night Audit Department. Is responsible for the overall direction, coordination and evaluation of this unit. Carries out supervisory responsibilities in accordance with the organization�s policies and applicable laws.

Ability to apply advanced mathematical concepts such as exponents, logarithms, quadratic equations and permutations. Ability to apply mathematical operations to such tasks as frequency distribution, determination of test reliability and validity, analysis of variance, correlation techniques, sampling theory and factor analysis.

Past experience in property management systems and condominium accounting preferred.

Direct experience in Timberline back office systems adds significant value to the proposed candidate.

Ability to handle multiple tasks and disciplines critical to success.

Advanced communication skills in both writing and verbal required.


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## riverc0il (Nov 23, 2005)

while i think it is important to realize a company can proactively search for a position that isn't actually a real job yet and ditch the person within a 90 grace period for any reason if the job doesn't actually fly (happpened to me before), i think this is a pretty solid sign when combined with the fact that the new head chef is a Ginn employee that this is going to happen eventually.  i bet it doesn't get finalized until next spring or summer though, seems like they want to keep the companies officially independent for the current ski season.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 23, 2005)

Yes...I mean really...if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... 

:-?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 24, 2005)

*UPDATE:*

I went up to get my season pass photo yesterday.  About 4-8 inches of snow on the mountain.  Lower Lodge is completely different inside--while getting a photo taken, I looked at the new trail map, which is different from years past in that like bigger places the trails are designated by colored lines than just the symbols and numbers...I think it looks too busy IMHO, but otherwise the format is cool.    The front steps are being worked on still.  Lots of contractors inside working on the Lower Lodge.  

Leitner/POMA had just left.  Sheave trains are on the towers and they have put in the new operator's terminal.  Summit station in place.  "Sand Lines" are in place ready to pull the final cable into place...looks like that is the next order of business.  Cable was in place on the spool.  Chairs are on the ground ready to have grips put on and put onto the line.  The liftline has been widened.  Looked good.  

I learned that Burke is going to be like a big ski resort in that they will be scanning all passes this year :roll:  At least I have a shot at a new pic...

Upper Mountain visit revealed new signage, a new groomer sitting and waiting for assembly, they have cleaned up the maintenance grounds and have erected a new fence around the area so you can't see in.  Royal Trail Works had moved to the parking lot for snowmaking work...Skidders were parked from hauling pipe/lift components.  The HKD towers have not left the parking lot (still lots to do...).  

Talked for a while with riverc0il and saw that the Summit Quad was spinning for maintenance work and to get it ready.  'River had just got done a run and said that the skiing was sweet :beer:


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## riverc0il (Nov 25, 2005)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> Talked for a while with riverc0il and saw that the Summit Quad was spinning for maintenance work and to get it ready.  'River had just got done a run and said that the skiing was sweet :beer:


indeed

was a pleasant surprised to see you there TB!  nice chatting with you.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 25, 2005)

Oh...forgot to say...the new lift did not appear to have footholders.  

Sorry Joshua B


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## thetrailboss (Nov 28, 2005)

The *Local Paper's Photo of the Day:*







The caption:  



			
				The Caledonian Record said:
			
		

> LET IT SNOW
> 
> Workers finish up the new Sherburne Express chairlift at Burke Mountain Ski Area in East Burke Sunday afternoon. The ski area is expected to open the second weekend in December, conditions permitting.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 28, 2005)

Darn Caledonian Record!  Anyways, the pic depicts the Summit Terminal.  

Burke just updated their website:  http://www.skiburke.com/gallery.html?stat=Image+Gallery&substat=Construction&sstat=&ref=0


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