# Terrain park “park passes”



## MrMagic (Sep 13, 2007)

Wondering what  everyone thought of ski resorts  charging extra  to use their terrain park.? 

 I was at Jiminy Peak last feb, and was outraged  to see that it cost an extra 5 dollars to use their terrain park.  What was worse that  you would have to go back to the ticket window to buy the park pass, you couldn’t even buy it at the terrain park entrance.  Now I know not everyone uses the park,  and im not a park rat by any means, but I always like to go take one or two runs through.  Now what if they started charging an extra 5 dollars to ski the bump runs? Is this next?  I sure hope not.  Your thoughts please.


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## Greg (Sep 13, 2007)

Pretty lame. But don't worry about having to pay $5 to ski bump runs at Jiminy cuz they really don't have any! Does the $5 "fee" apply to pass holders too?


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## wa-loaf (Sep 13, 2007)

Wachusett does the same and makes you watch a safety video first, but I believe you can get it at the park entrance.. I'm not sure if the $5 is for the whole season or just the day. I'm not interested enough to pay.


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## snoseek (Sep 13, 2007)

makes no sense. does someone moniter this? 



i could see a safety vid maybe if the jumps were huge....


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## wa-loaf (Sep 13, 2007)

snoseek said:


> makes no sense. does someone moniter this?



At Wachusett, yes. The top of the trail is all roped off and there is a gate house where they check tickets and a separate tent for watching the video. At least you don't have to go back down.


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## snoseek (Sep 13, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> At Wachusett, yes. The top of the trail is all roped off and there is a gate house where they check tickets and a separate tent for watching the video. At least you don't have to go back down.



I guess this is why they charge $$$$. seems like a waste of payroll.


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## tjf67 (Sep 13, 2007)

Welcome to corporate America.  Nickle and diming people to death.  I would tell them where to stuff the five bucks and let them know my 55 bucks will be going to another resort next time out.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 13, 2007)

I used to be against park passes but now I'm for them.  The cost which is normally $5 at least at Stratton and Mountain Creek is usually good for the entire season and you must also watch a safety video.  It's a way to keep terrain parks less crowded and the fee goes towards staffing somebody at the entrance of the park to check passes.  I'm now for park passes in expert terrain parks and no park passes for family/beginner parks.  At Blue mountain they have Booters from 30-60 feet with steep blind landings and it's not fair for park riders to have to deal with twice a year gapers and little kids using the park like a regular ski run.  At Blue mountain they have steps at the entrance of the Sidewinder park as a way to keep newbies and non-park riders out.  I wish there was a greater ski patroller presence in the terrain park who gave warnings to those not practicing smartstyle.  

I compare the terrain park to running gates.  Nastar racers have a closed off course...why shouldn't park riders have a closed off park..at least during certain hours..In the future I imagine more resorts will institute park pass programs.  On sites like NewSchoolers and PASR a majority of park riders are for park passes.  It would keep people who don't plan on properly using the features outside of the park..along with little kids on leashes and such


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## Greg (Sep 13, 2007)

If the $5 is a one time thing, I don't have much of a problem with it.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 13, 2007)

Park passes aren't about making money..they're about reducing the number of injuries in the terrain park.  I've warned parents teaching little kids in the terrain park that if a skier/rider lands on their kid..they may be decapitated..which is true..plus alot of non park riders fail to yell drop or yield to others..


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## MrMagic (Sep 13, 2007)

Greg said:


> Pretty lame. But don't worry about having to pay $5 to ski bump runs at Jiminy cuz they really don't have any! Does the $5 "fee" apply to pass holders too?



no,  at least not at wa wa. where i was a pass holder last year


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 13, 2007)

I'm actually for black diamond passes to keep the newbs out of my way..


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## MrMagic (Sep 13, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> IAt Blue mountain they have Booters from 30-60 feet with steep blind landings and it's not fair for park riders to have to deal with twice a year gapers and little kids using the park like a regular ski run.



 this is a good point, but the same logic can be said for bump runs, " i dont want kids or gapers skiing across my bump line"  but we all have to learn to ski bumps or ski the park, so having a gated enterence and charging people 5 dollars for a day for park rights,  really is like having a VIP for expert skiers.  kids and gapers need a place to pratice too.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 13, 2007)

The park is not the place for kids and gapers to practice..there are slow skiing trails for that..


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## tjf67 (Sep 13, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Park passes aren't about making money..they're about reducing the number of injuries in the terrain park.  I've warned parents teaching little kids in the terrain park that if a skier/rider lands on their kid..they may be decapitated..which is true..plus alot of non park riders fail to yell drop or yield to others..



You keep telling yourself that.  Its all about sqeezing as much rev out as possible.


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## JimG. (Sep 13, 2007)

MrMagic said:


> Wondering what  everyone thought of ski resorts  charging extra  to use their terrain park.?
> 
> I was at Jiminy Peak last feb, and was outraged  to see that it cost an extra 5 dollars to use their terrain park.  What was worse that  you would have to go back to the ticket window to buy the park pass, you couldn’t even buy it at the terrain park entrance.  Now I know not everyone uses the park,  and im not a park rat by any means, but I always like to go take one or two runs through.  Now what if they started charging an extra 5 dollars to ski the bump runs? Is this next?  I sure hope not.  Your thoughts please.



This wouldn't bother me if it cost me $5 LESS to buy a day ticket...because they're basically making some of the hill I just paid to ski off limits to me unless I pay more.

What this will encourage is hits and features being built outside of the terrain park in an effort to avoid the cost. And that's going to screw up the skiing and riding on regular trails.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 13, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> You keep telling yourself that.  Its all about sqeezing as much rev out as possible.



With that revenue they can build bigger and better parks...here's a thread on park passes at Mountain Creek from 2 years ago on PASR...

http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=803&hl=park+passes


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## MrMagic (Sep 13, 2007)

JimG. said:


> What this will encourage is hits and features being built outside of the terrain park in an effort to avoid the cost. And that's going to screw up the skiing and riding on regular trails.



yes good point, that allready happens too often.


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## MRGisevil (Sep 13, 2007)

MrMagic said:


> this is a good point, but the same logic can be said for bump runs, " i dont want kids or gapers skiing across my bump line"  but we all have to learn to ski bumps or ski the park, so having a gated enterence and charging people 5 dollars for a day for park rights,  really is like having a VIP for expert skiers.  kids and gapers need a place to pratice too.



Everyone needs a place to practice. That's how you learn. And who's to say you're ("you're" being general, not directed) that great? There will always be someone better than you who considers you as a 'nuiscance in their way'.

I think this is ridiculous. Why not charge $5 to ski trees, and $5 to ski bumps, and $5 to ski Jericho, and $5 to ski the flipping bunny hill. Jiminy Peak is overpriced enough as it is ( $58 ) without further adding to the nickle & dime B/S they try to pull.


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## MrMagic (Sep 13, 2007)

I think this is ridiculous. Why not charge $5 to ski trees said:
			
		

> my point exact.!


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## prisnah (Sep 13, 2007)

If it's a small one time fee, I'm all for it. Keeps people who shouldn't be there outta there.....you know how many times I've had to take a dive so I wouldn't smash into some knucklehead in a neon jacket and jeans snowplowing through an LZ?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 13, 2007)

If there's somebody in my way whether in the park or on a trail..like somebody that cuts out right in front of me...I'd rather crash into them then swerve and risk crashing into a tree/lift tower...people are alot softer than solid objects..

The Ludicras song..Move Bitch Get Out the Way is in my head almost everyday I ski..it boggles my mind how many people enter a trail without looking uphill to see what's coming...would you drive onto a highway blindly without yielding???


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## prisnah (Sep 13, 2007)

A lotta of areas now have specifically designed beginner parks, learn there, no charge for it....then once you got some experience and are familiar with all aspects of smartstyle, then pay your $ and hit the park. I do agree that it sucks that they're closing down a section of the mountain due to this, and it is probably just another way to nickel and dime so the resorts can boost their revenue, but overall it's probably a smart thing to do.

Either way, it won't affect me too much....you gotta pay to play sometimes.


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## DJAK (Sep 13, 2007)

Whether you like park passes or not, the need to educate and/or downright restrict access is real.


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## MRGisevil (Sep 13, 2007)

DJAK said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOmG5xlEvMk
> 
> Whether you like park passes or not, the need to educate and/or downright restrict access is real.




Fine, restrict them. Put a fence up. Enter at your own risk. Must be this tall to ride. But paying extra to get in? Who is that going to benefit but the park. So called "gapers" and "newbies" can still pay $5 and get in everyone's way.


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## JimG. (Sep 13, 2007)

DJAK said:


> Whether you like park passes or not, the need to educate and/or downright restrict access is real.



There is no doubt of that. But the solution isn't as simple as just charging $5.

If your going to charge people to use terrain features, then out of courtesy to folks who don't use those areas that activity should be banned (and enforce it) in other areas of the mountain. I mean, if those folks can't use that area unless they pay, they shouldn't have to put up with out of control airtime where they have to stay.


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## SKIER4LIFE1281 (Sep 13, 2007)

butternut does the same thing with that park pass, but it is free and all you have to do is sign a form that u read the rules. the guy at the gate never really checks ur passes after the first week of the park being open. and everybody has a park pass now there and the little kids jsut sit on the top of the jumps and rails and dont move . they should have a height restriction, also it is ridiculous to pay money to go in the park.


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 13, 2007)

First year Jiminey had the Park pass they didn't charge for it, just made you watch a movie.  Had no problem with that, I watched the movie and got my pass.  Last year they started charging you.  As I rarelly use the park other than a run or 2 a day I said screw that, till I found a pass one day after all the ski clubs had left.  

If they are gonna charge you for the park, it better be way better than it was last year.


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## SnowRider (Sep 14, 2007)

As a park person myself I think that the $5 makes a lot of sense. When I am at Pat's Peak for example it is frustrating to see parents teaching there kids how to ski in the park. The $5 keeps those people out of the park making it more safe. 

As for bump runs they will never charge $5 because parents don't teach there kids how to ski in the bumps.


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## danny p (Sep 14, 2007)

about 3 to 4 years ago I was riding in a Terrain Park at Windham Mountain on a weekend  and Ski Instructors had a ski school of maybe 4-6 year old kids in the terrain park riding over the jumps (riding, not jumping).  Some ski areas perpetuate this nonsense.  There is no reason for ski schools to be in the terrain park (unless they are capable and its a terrain park clinic).  IMO this was just teaching these kids to ride through the terrain park and features as if its any other trail, which is dangerous.  Oh yeah and I got b*^&*ed at for cutting off the ski school to hit the jumps.


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## Greg (Sep 14, 2007)

SnowRider said:


> As for bump runs they will never charge $5 because parents don't teach there kids how to ski in the bumps.



This parent will!


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 14, 2007)

What's wrong with a ski area making money to help off-set the costs of the park?

I'm not much of a park person, so I could be wrong, but don't the parks take a lot more effort to set up and maintain?  These costs are fairly new costs, and are not part of the old business model of snowmaking and grooming.

I for one will probably never go in a park, since I've done enough damage to myself off mogul run jumps, etc., to get much out of throwing myself off of fake terrain, so why should someone like me subsidize those who want to use the parks?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 14, 2007)

danny p said:


> about 3 to 4 years ago I was riding in a Terrain Park at Windham Mountain on a weekend  and Ski Instructors had a ski school of maybe 4-6 year old kids in the terrain park riding over the jumps (riding, not jumping).  Some ski areas perpetuate this nonsense.  There is no reason for ski schools to be in the terrain park (unless they are capable and its a terrain park clinic).  IMO this was just teaching these kids to ride through the terrain park and features as if its any other trail, which is dangerous.  Oh yeah and I got b*^&*ed at for cutting off the ski school to hit the jumps.



At Blue mountain in the instructors room in Big Letters it says...NO Lessons in the Terrain Park or Halfpipe..there is a freeriders program for that every Saturday and Sunday though with students ranging from pre-teens to thirtysomethings..


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## JimG. (Sep 14, 2007)

danny p said:


> about 3 to 4 years ago I was riding in a Terrain Park at Windham Mountain on a weekend  and Ski Instructors had a ski school of maybe 4-6 year old kids in the terrain park riding over the jumps (riding, not jumping).  Some ski areas perpetuate this nonsense.  There is no reason for ski schools to be in the terrain park (unless they are capable and its a terrain park clinic).  IMO this was just teaching these kids to ride through the terrain park and features as if its any other trail, which is dangerous.  Oh yeah and I got b*^&*ed at for cutting off the ski school to hit the jumps.



For the record, I have no issues at all with any ski area charging money for those who want to use the terrain park. And I like to go in the park unlike some skiers. I'm no park rat, but I enjoy the halfpipe even though I don't get much more than 2-3 feet of air. 

I'm just fearful that people who don't want to pay will try to set up their own personal hits and cause havoc elsewhere.

Also, when I taught skiing and especially when I was a kid's seasonal program coach, I stayed out of the terrain park with my classes unless it was early morning (before 9:30) or late afternoon (after 3:00). And then we spent alot of time on learning proper park etiquette and waiting our turn.


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## danny p (Sep 14, 2007)

> I'm just fearful that people who don't want to pay will try to set up their own personal hits and cause havoc elsewhere.



As far as the money thing, if I had a pass I would not want to pay more for a terrain park.  If that was the only option so be it, 5 bucks isn't gonna break me so I wouldn't make that big a deal if it was for the whole season.

I hear you on this point, but it's hard to say I agree just because some of my favorite jumps are on the sides of trails (I don't personally set them up, but..).  That being said I always check behind me to see who will be in my landing when I go for it.  Plenty of times I've passed that one really good hit on the trail because the trail had too much traffic.  Next run!

I know many people have a problem with people like me who like to hit the left or right banks on the trails or hit the "jersey jumps" but I live for that, freestyle riding on a trail is much more fun than going to a dedicated trail and being forced to freestyle on man-made obstacles IMO.


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## Greg (Sep 14, 2007)

danny p said:


> I hear you on this point, but it's hard to say I agree just because some of my favorite jumps are on the sides of trails (I don't personally set them up, but..).  That being said I always check behind me to see who will be in my landing when I go for it.  Plenty of times I've passed that one really good hit on the trail because the trail had too much traffic.  Next run!
> 
> I know many people have a problem with people like me who like to hit the left or right banks on the trails or hit the "jersey jumps" but I live for that, freestyle riding on a trail is much more fun than going to a dedicated trail and being forced to freestyle on man-made obstacles IMO.



I'm with you on this one. Hits at trail merges are my favorite, provided the coast is clear, of course...


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## JimG. (Sep 14, 2007)

danny p said:


> As far as the money thing, if I had a pass I would not want to pay more for a terrain park.  If that was the only option so be it, 5 bucks isn't gonna break me so I wouldn't make that big a deal if it was for the whole season.
> 
> I hear you on this point, but it's hard to say I agree just because some of my favorite jumps are on the sides of trails (I don't personally set them up, but..).  That being said I always check behind me to see who will be in my landing when I go for it.  Plenty of times I've passed that one really good hit on the trail because the trail had too much traffic.  Next run!
> 
> I know many people have a problem with people like me who like to hit the left or right banks on the trails or hit the "jersey jumps" but I live for that, freestyle riding on a trail is much more fun than going to a dedicated trail and being forced to freestyle on man-made obstacles IMO.



Got no issues with those sides of the trail hits...I like them too and if I'm just going fast I try to stay away from them...awareness is a two way street.

My concern is the hit that a group decides to build on their own and who wind up sitting there all day blocking part of the trail.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Sep 14, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> What's wrong with a ski area making money to help off-set the costs of the park?
> 
> I'm not much of a park person, so I could be wrong, but don't the parks take a lot more effort to set up and maintain?  These costs are fairly new costs, and are not part of the old business model of snowmaking and grooming.
> 
> I for one will probably never go in a park, since I've done enough damage to myself off mogul run jumps, etc., to get much out of throwing myself off of fake terrain, so why should someone like me subsidize those who want to use the parks?


For the same reason the park rat should subsidize your skiing all over the rest of the mountain...all that snowmaking and grooming you expect...all those lifts you ride...all over the mountain...miles of snowmaking pipe, miles of trails that need to be groomed...all those lifties, etc.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 14, 2007)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> For the same reason the park rat should subsidize your skiing all over the rest of the mountain...all that snowmaking and grooming you expect...all those lifts you ride...all over the mountain...miles of snowmaking pipe, miles of trails that need to be groomed...all those lifties, etc.



It seems to me that everyone benefits from these and they are covered by your lift ticket. Building the parks takes a lot of extra effort and man power ( and cat time) on top of all those benefits. So it makes sense to have an extra fee to use them and to restrict access to those who don't pay.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 14, 2007)

danny p said:


> As far as the money thing, if I had a pass I would not want to pay more for a terrain park.  If that was the only option so be it, 5 bucks isn't gonna break me so I wouldn't make that big a deal if it was for the whole season.
> 
> I hear you on this point, but it's hard to say I agree just because some of my favorite jumps are on the sides of trails (I don't personally set them up, but..).  That being said I always check behind me to see who will be in my landing when I go for it.  Plenty of times I've passed that one really good hit on the trail because the trail had too much traffic.  Next run!
> 
> I know many people have a problem with people like me who like to hit the left or right banks on the trails or hit the "jersey jumps" but I live for that, freestyle riding on a trail is much more fun than going to a dedicated trail and being forced to freestyle on man-made obstacles IMO.




I never heard the expression.."Jersey Jump"..so that's getting air off the side of the trail..I like to get tons of air off blind spots..lol


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## Phildozer (Sep 14, 2007)

It sucks that places are charging for a park pass but it seems to be the only reasonable way to keep the non-serious park users out.  

As a Wachusett skier, I've noticed a huge decreasein the number of trail penguins in the park since the $5 pass was implemented.


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## danny p (Sep 14, 2007)

> I never heard the expression.."Jersey Jump"..so that's getting air off the side of the trail..I like to get tons of air off blind spots..lol



"jersey jumps" are the ones that dip down off the side of the trail and then swoop back up and use the side of the trail as a lip to launch back on the trail.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 14, 2007)

danny p said:


> "jersey jumps" are the ones that dip down off the side of the trail and then swoop back up and use the side of the trail as a lip to launch back on the trail.




Those are fun..


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Sep 14, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> It seems to me that everyone benefits from these and they are covered by your lift ticket. Building the parks takes a lot of extra effort and man power ( and cat time) on top of all those benefits. So it makes sense to have an extra fee to use them and to restrict access to those who don't pay.



The beginners don't benefit from snowmaking on the expert trails or efforts spend thinning the trees for another double diamond glade.  The experts don't ride the magic carpet...the non-breeders don't benefit from the childrens slopes with all the cute little mascots, etc...we're all paying for some things we aren't using.  Following the park rats should pay rationale, shouldn't they then be allowed to buy a "park only" pass if all they wanna do is session rails and kickers?  Or, shouldn't the bumpers pay more for the seeded bump trails?  Those racers oughta pay extra for that run they took over with gates. Skiers with fat skis should have to pay for the upgrade to the racks on the gondola...the skinny ski folks shouldn't have to subsidize that...you people who ski all day long should have to pay more because you put more wear and tear on the slopes...etc etc etc.  This argument is a slippery slope...and not the kind we all know and love.  I'm okay with $5 one time park pass fee...to patrol the park and keep it safer for everyone...but if we're all using the same hill, we should be paying the same price...once you try to segment it there's no reasonable place to stop.


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## MrMagic (Sep 14, 2007)

my biggest problem with the 5 dollar rate, was that  Jim. Peaks park looked lame, (from what i could tell from the next trail over) if im going to pay extra for the park, i would hope the jumps vary in size, good lines to ride  and at the very least  it should  be well taken care of. at least aw Wa Wa if you pay the extra 5 dollars a day to ski the park it has many good options


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 14, 2007)

MrMagic said:


> my biggest problem with the 5 dollar rate, was that  Jim. Peaks park looked lame, (from what i could tell from the next trail over) if im going to pay extra for the park, i would hope the jumps vary in size, good lines to ride  and at the very least  it should  be well taken care of. at least aw Wa Wa if you pay the extra 5 dollars a day to ski the park it has many good options



The trail not only looked lame, it was.  There were 3 groups of jumps on the trail.(multiple jumps to 1 landing).  There was also like 3 groups of rails I think, and a quarter pipe at the bottom to choose from or hit the big kicker.  The jumps were very poorly built for the terrain that existed as well.  Long flat area then a decent size step up that was real hard to clear without straightlining the entire trail.

Then there was the alpine slide line goes rite across the trail in the run out from the big jump, yea thats safe...........:smash:


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## MrMagic (Sep 14, 2007)

Hawkshot99 said:


> The trail not only looked lame, it was.  There were 3 groups of jumps on the trail.(multiple jumps to 1 landing).  There was also like 3 groups of rails I think, and a quarter pipe at the bottom to choose from or hit the big kicker.  The jumps were very poorly built for the terrain that existed as well.  Long flat area then a decent size step up that was real hard to clear without straightlining the entire trail.
> 
> Then there was the alpine slide line goes rite across the trail in the run out from the big jump, yea thats safe...........:smash:



yeah glad you agree, ill save my 5 dollars. thank you


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## sledhaulingmedic (Sep 18, 2007)

Is the "Jersey Jump" any relation to the "Joey Berm"?  (The "Joey Berm" is what is left when the cat driver cuts into the snow at the edge of the trail to leave a small wall.  I believe this does have a legit purpose...to trap the tilled snow from getting pushed/blown into the woods.  That being said, the ledgend is that the "Joey Berm keeps the players on the field.")  Along with the "Jersey jump" a closely related move would be (in the words of a Someday Bigger patroller) the "Side out": jumping off the groomed (and graded) part of the trail to porpoise one turn in the soft snow back onto the trail.

OK, back on topic.  Although I'm a proponent of "pay for what you use" (my wife and I (child-free) cringe when we look at the school budget, for example), I think charging for park use is a poor business practice.  (Those who know me  at all know that they'll sooner find me listening to wrap, I mean rap, then they'll find me in the park.)  All that being said, I think a "park pass" such as Stratton's SES program (which, last I knew was free) are good for a whole host of reasons.  The provide a risk management comfort level (wich will allow the continued existence of parks) and will keep the wanabees out of the way of the real park players.  (Point of amusement: Stratton employees refered to the manditory video to get the "SES Pass" as "SES education") 

Now, if you said the same standard would be applied to trees...


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## Phildozer (Sep 19, 2007)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> Those racers oughta pay extra for that run they took over with gates.




Um...we do.

I forget what it cost last season I raced but seem to recall it was around $79.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 19, 2007)

Phildozer said:


> Um...we do.
> 
> I forget what it cost last season I raced but seem to recall it was around $79.



It was $100 buck last year. Probably go up a bit this year.


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## Birdman829 (Sep 19, 2007)

Keeps gapers out of the park which makes park rats happy. Minimizes the risk of injury which keeps a the mountain happy. $5 isn't exactly prohibitively expensive. As long as you don't have to go back to the bottom I see no problem with it. 

With the size of the parks these days things are going to be moving in that direction. Parks are very inconsistent too. By which I mean you can have someone thinking they can ski the park (because they do just fine at their rinky dink local hill) getting themselves killed at Sugarloaf, Stowe, Stratton, etc. Some mountains have parks with pretty big gaps and plenty of people with no business hitting them.


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## Hawkshot99 (Sep 19, 2007)

Phildozer said:


> Um...we do.
> 
> I forget what it cost last season I raced but seem to recall it was around $79.



That is a bit different though.  I assume that price also covers your league fees.  

The park pass is just access.  Go enter a bump contest or park contest or any other and there will be a entry fee.


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## dl (Sep 19, 2007)

it seems to me that racers have been paying "fees" for years. yes, nastar is a program that tracks your handicap and offers awards - it makes sense to pay for that. but, many areas don't have nastar but they do set up a course - typically it's $1-2 per RUN (less if you buy a bulk pass). 

when was the last time you were able to run a course where you didn't have to pay? 

as a skier i like to enjoy all aspects of the mountain - trail skiing, woods/glades, park/pipe, bumps, racing, etc. as an ex-racer, i'm always upset to find out that I can ski the park or pipe at no charge but i can't take a course without forking over some green. 

personally i'll pay $5 for a season pass on the park/pipe if I can also get $5 to run the fun course anytime I want. (and if you're argument is that setting a race course and having a clock up requires more work than the park/pipe i say bull. most areas have 2-3 park rangers on duty at all times - set up the course in the morning and take it down in the afternoon - that's all that's required. if the clock stops working, i can still run the course).


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## Phildozer (Sep 19, 2007)

Hawkshot99 said:


> That is a bit different though.  I assume that price also covers your league fees.
> The park pass is just access.  Go enter a bump contest or park contest or any other and there will be a entry fee.




It might include a league fee but we're also talking considerably more money.  They shut down a full trail at night for racing so I'm willing to pay for the use of that trail without having to worry about anyone getting in my way during the run.  

Park passes, in my mind, provide a similar service.  They keep wanna be people out of the park.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Sep 19, 2007)

Phildozer said:


> It might include a league fee but we're also talking considerably more money.  They shut down a full trail at night for racing so I'm willing to pay for the use of that trail without having to worry about anyone getting in my way during the run.
> 
> Park passes, in my mind, provide a similar service.  They keep wanna be people out of the park.



I pay for the beer league fee too, it goes to cover nastar fees, timing, prizes, tee shirts and a host of other things not included in the typical on hill experience...but there are numerous race groups on many hills at any given time who are not paying a fee to use it.  None of the high school race programs pay a fee to SR to use the hill for training, they don't pay for races when the states are held up there...they don't pay for practice time even though it closes a whole trail.  Does the US Ski Team pay Sugarloaf a fee for the Tall Timbers Classic...I don't think so (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), more likely they spend a ton of money to host the event hoping to make it up on visits.  Early season at SR you can find as many as 3 trails closed for race training...Gould, high schools, colleges, etc.  Sure, if you enter a USSA race, masters race, etc you've got a fee, but its like hawkshot said, if you enter a park contest you pay an entry fee...and most of those fees go right to USSA or the events governing body, not the mtn.  You don't pay an additional fee to ski in the woods...or to ski seeded bump trails...so other than a $5 SEASONAL park pass I don't think you should have to pay extra for parks and pipes...its all part of the overall appeal of the mtn.


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## dl (Sep 19, 2007)

most mountains charge a hill fee for any event if the event is put on by an organization separate from the mountain. if masters have a race at SR, they are paying a hill fee. the racers registration fees go towards the hill fee among other things. i would imagine that similar fees are negotiated for organizations, schools included, that need training space. if trail space is being reserved for a 3rd party, chances are they're paying for it.


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## Phildozer (Sep 19, 2007)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> You don't pay an additional fee to ski in the woods...or to ski seeded bump trails...so other than a $5 SEASONAL park pass I don't think you should have to pay extra for parks and pipes...its all part of the overall appeal of the mtn.



It is true you don't pay extra to ski in the woods or on seeded bump trails but for whatever reason, those types of trails tend to be more self-selecting for newbies.  Maybe it is a testosterone-thing for younger boys but there seems to be a strong need for guys to say they use a park, no matter what their abilities.

I've also seen parents take their *really* small kids through the park.  If a $5 seasonal pass keeps idiots like this out, I'm 100% for it.


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## Highway Star (Sep 19, 2007)

SKIER4LIFE1281 said:


> butternut does the same thing with that park pass, but it is free and all you have to do is sign a form that u read the rules. the guy at the gate never really checks ur passes after the first week of the park being open. and everybody has a park pass now there and the little kids jsut sit on the top of the jumps and rails and dont move . they should have a height restriction, also it is ridiculous to pay money to go in the park.



Hum....I'll talk to someone about that.


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## powderman (Aug 4, 2008)

bump


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm for them..in the expert parks..


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