# Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing



## JimG. (Oct 13, 2005)

Sky, check this out:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=4978&highlight=dipiro

This book is well written and rock solid.


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## Greg (Oct 13, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Sky, check this out:
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> http://forums.alpinezone.com/viewtopic.php?t=5521&highlight=dipiro
> 
> This book is well written and rock solid.


I was going to mention this as well. Super easy read. My only comment is it seems to be geared towards the already advanced groomer skier looking to bash the zipperline. However, I do feel a lot of DiPro's techniques could be adapted to more conservative bump skiing.


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## Sky (Oct 13, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> My book is meant to equip expert skiers



I saw this thread.  Thanks Jim....greatly appreciated.

The quote above is from the review in your "link".  I suppose I should read the book and see what's in there.  I absolutely "drink" the AMS book.  As an old hoopster...the drills are just what I was looking for.  The language (emphasis on a "toolbox", a word I use myself in my work) just fits my style.

As for watching and emulating HPD...congrats.  Sometimes I can do that.  More frequently, I need to know the "why" behind something so I can address the answer with my own abilities/limitations without busting some portion of the "what's required" envelope.

My first experience with a succesful "how to" book was fly fishing.  Casting.  Nailed it.  The AMS book is really fun to read.  I'll give this other reference a shot pre-season.  

Sorry to hear the stands get the mag before subscribers!  I definitely thought it was the other way around!  ALways figured that was one of the benefits of subscribing.


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## JimG. (Oct 13, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

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I used to coach 7-11 year olds on how to learn to ski bumps. I used many of the same drills as in Dan's book. This is good stuff for anyone who is a strong intermediate who is looking to LEARN to ski bumps. 

No doubt Dan is also catering to those who want to become competitive bumpers, but as Greg mentioned above the techniques can be toned down for the less skilled athlete.


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## Sky (Oct 13, 2005)

> No doubt Dan is also catering to those who want to become competitive bumpers, but as Greg mentioned above the techniques can be toned down for the less skilled athlete.



OK, thanks.  I'll check it out.

Borders?  Or on-line via Dan's site?  I'll check the top of the thread...I'm sure it's posted.


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## JimG. (Oct 14, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> OK, thanks.  I'll check it out.
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> Borders?  Or on-line via Dan's site?  I'll check the top of the thread...I'm sure it's posted.



Try Amazon.com too.

Also, www.learnmoguls.com


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## dipiro (Oct 21, 2005)

*New mogul-skiing book*

Hello all,

Dan here... author of _Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing_.

About my target audience and zipperline skiing: Yes, the book is meant for fit, groomed-trail experts -- that is, skiers who can handle groomed expert trails, and who aren't, for example, extremely overweight or nursing an injury. "Fit experts" might be as young as 10 years or as old as 65. I've had success teaching mogul techniques throughout this age range.

Zipperline skiing is easier than most skiers think. Because mogul techniques are not widely known among the skiing masses, most people jump into the zipperline equipped with only groomed-trail, racing-based techniques, and these skiers are consequently knocked around. This has given the zipperline a formidable reputation, but it's not warranted. With the right techniques, the average fit expert can ski the zipperline with comfort and confidence. (I've written about this on my blog.)

In addition to needing proper mogul technique (those techniques that mogul competitors and coaches have identified and refined over the last 30+ years), the aspiring bumper needs to learn on graduated terrain. You start with mogul training on the flats, then you graduate to gently-sloped trails with short sections of small moguls. And so on. You don't jump right into the zipperline of a 29-degree World-Cup course. You start small and work your way up. By the way, most accomplished mogul skiers spend plenty of time training on the groomers. Finland's World-Cuppers, for example, are very into flats training. I, too, am a big proponent of flats training... it hones the technique and safely warms up the old bones and muscles (I'm 40).

-dd

P.S. Jim and Greg, glad you guys like the book.


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New mogul-skiing book*



			
				dipiro said:
			
		

> P.S. Jim and Greg, glad you guys like the book.


Welcome Dan! Glad you signed up. Please stick around and contribute here. We've got a great community of Northeast skiers!


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Wow, a hearty and sincere welcome to the boards...

Not sure if I have welcoming priveledges yet myself since I've only been around for a month, but nonetheless.

I started learning moguls last year but didn't have enough slope time to really work on my technique.  I started on steep groomers/PP with the short linked turns.

I went down some bumps throughout the early season (dec - jan) but chronic poor conditions and inconsistancy prevented much learning.

I did most of my improving in the bumps in the woods, it really forced me to keep my head up and focusing 3 or 4 bumps a head (because I wished not to have a close encounter with an eastern hemlock).

Watching other people I found was helping me as well.  My 2 biggest self diagnosed problems are not looking ahead and sitting back on my tails.  They seem to be common problems though.


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## dipiro (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks, Greg. Glad to be a part of it!
-Dan D


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## dipiro (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> My 2 biggest self diagnosed problems are not looking ahead and sitting back on my tails.  They seem to be common problems though.



Yes, Marc... common problems for aspiring bumpers. They're also problems that you can remedy with some simple groomed-trail drills.


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Yeah, a lot of me sitting on my tails comes from fitness issues for me.

I spend all summer developing cycling legs that are built for continuous 4 hour cardiovascular effort, not 75% intensity intervals essentially.  I'm better built for endurance activities anyway.  So when I start feeling burn I start getting lazy and lean back.  At least that problem has a simple solution.  It's not like it is some psychological block that prevents me from changing form.


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc - pick up Dan's book. It'll be probably the best 11 bucks you could ever spend to help you improve. I'm only about halfway through it, but Dan's drills are great. It's an easy read and very useful for anyone looking to really bash the bumps. I'm looking forward to applying some of his techniques this season.


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Is it on Amazon?  I'm awful lazy  :dunce:


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Is it on Amazon?  I'm awful lazy  :dunce:


www.learnmoguls.com


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Hey look at that:

Dan's book, sweet cover[/url]


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## dipiro (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Yeah, a lot of me sitting on my tails comes from fitness issues for me. I spend all summer developing cycling legs that are built for continuous 4 hour cardiovascular effort...



Four-hour rides? Wow. Sounds like you're in plenty good-enough shape... excellent shape. Sounds like a posture-adjustment thing to me, Marc, not a fitness issue.


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## dipiro (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Is it on Amazon?



Yup, it's on Amazon, a bunch of other book sites, my retail site (learnmoguls.com), and it's available for order in brick-and-mortar book stores, too.

(Thanks for the plug, Greg.)


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Hey look, Amazon is more expensive... big surprise...


And maybe it's posture, but I'm still not sure.  I should be mountain biking more as that seems to be universally accepted as better cross training for alpine than road cycling.

But I use what feels like the right form for as long as my legs can stand the burn.  What I really should be doing more this time of year on the road bike are short steep climbs and sprints to build my lactate threshold.

Technique on both skis and the bike becomes so much easier to develop when you can take the fitness factor out.


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## dipiro (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Technique on both skis and the bike becomes so much easier to develop when you can take the fitness factor out.



Yup, fitness is totally key. ...for preventing injuries, too, of course.

I road ride, run trails, and fiddle a bit with plyometrics (a.k.a. hopping around the gym, den, living room, etc).


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## Sky (Oct 21, 2005)

WELCOME DAN!!

Congrats on the book and thanks for the posts.  I'll be hunting that book down.

Thanks for the feedback on "who" will benefit from the book.  

Greg recommended some easy bump trails @ Loon (re: your recommendation to start easy).  That's been my issue.  I look forward to the "flats" drills in your book and will work them this season.  Do you have any other recommendations for "easy" bump locations for skills honing?


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Hey Dan, without sounding like I'm trying to coax any freebies out of you, because I do plan on picking up a copy of your book...

What do you look for in a good mogul ski?  I mean in terms of length, sidecut waist, weight, bindings, construction, etc. etc.

I'm learning on this older pair ('01 MY) Rossy cut 10.4, 177 cm.  On paper they seem to be what I would think good for learning bumps.  Light, relatively short (I'm 6') and not too stiff.

But I'm thinking about buying a one ski quiver (more or less) at the end of the season.  Any thoughts on any of that?


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Here's another general question for anyone to answer I'll throw out there-

Anyone think Bear Trap on Mount Snow is a good learning trail?  It sees a lot of sun, it's only serviced by a double, not too long, no too steep, usually soft bumps.

Plus they play music (I like the atmosphere).

 :beer:


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Here's another general question for anyone to answer I'll throw out there-
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> Anyone think Bear Trap on Mount Snow is a good learning trail?  It sees a lot of sun, it's only serviced by a double, not too long, no too steep, usually soft bumps.
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Beartrap is a great run. Usually nice consistent lines there, but it's a bit steep in terms of beginner bumps and the moguls can get pretty big.

Look for some place that seeds bump runs on intermediate trails. I'll say it again, Loon has some of the best. Two years ago they seeded this run on Sunset:







Now if that's not a consistent bump run on a relatively mellow pitch, I don't know what is. They also set up great bumps on Rumrunner:






Jiminy started a seeded run on Grand Slam which is very flat. I understand Sunapee does some seeded runs too, but I've never skied there so I can't confirm.


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> I'll say it again, Loon has some of the best.



*cough*
<- Cheap ASC pass holder 
*cough*


Maybe I'll check out Loon on a blackout day.

 :beer:


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Maybe I'll check out Loon on a blackout day.


Well a blackout day will most likely be a day that you wouldn't want to ski at Loon...


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## Sky (Oct 21, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Maybe I'll check out Loon on a blackout day.



Mark, maybe we share a ride to Loon some mid-week day and laugh at each other as we try this "mogul" thing.

I'll drive.  Rendezvous @ (if no place else) the park-n-ride @ the mass pike interchange @ Rt 146?

I'm in a full-on Jonezen mode at this point.  I'm looking in on the skis, checking the helmet...finding the socks and overgarments...re-applying the waterproof stuff ("Storm-Shed"...good stuff).

Posting in here three or four times a day s NO LONGER holding me over.


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## Beartrap (Oct 21, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

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I think he probably meant an ASC blackout date.


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

Beartrap said:
			
		

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I know. An ASC blackout date is typically a holiday or vacation period - just the type of day you want to avoid Loon due to crowds.


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

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Hell yeah, I'm in.  Although depending on what route we take, the commuter lot a the 290/90 interchange in Auburn might be more convenient (if you want to go 290 to 495).

I'm always good for a few laughs, no matter what I'm skiing on.   :dunce:


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## Greg (Oct 21, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> Posting in here three or four times a day s NO LONGER holding me over.


Try 8-10 times/day.


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## Marc (Oct 21, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

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Heh, yeah... don't know what kinda fool would do that...


hm...


 :dunce:


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## dipiro (Oct 22, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> WELCOME DAN!!... some easy bump trails @ Loon (re: your recommendation to start easy).  That's been my issue. Any other recommendations for "easy" bump locations for skills honing?



Thanks! Funny... a few days ago, I was exchanging e-mail messages with the guys who lobbied Loon management over the last few seasons to build and maintain that seeded stretch of bumps on Rumrunner. Sounds like getting them made was the easy part... a lot of Loon folks didn't like them, wanted them groomed out. There was some controversy over it, but Loon Management stuck with the bumpers, the bumpers tell me.

Last year, Waterville Valley started publicizing its graduated bump stations: several seeded bump fields on easy, intermediate and expert terrain. I haven't yet seen these bumps, but this sounds ideal. I'll be there this year, by the way, on weekends and holidays coaching kids on the BBTS freestyle team.

Just about any trail with good snow starts to bump up a little toward mid day... remember: you can get some useful training done on the flats and on just a few tiny bumps. And this sort of training is easy on the body, too!


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## dipiro (Oct 22, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Hey Dan, ... What do you look for in a good mogul ski?  I mean in terms of length, sidecut waist, weight, bindings, construction, etc. etc.



I'm a purist when it comes to skis... for as long as there have been mogul skis, I've skied on nothing but mogul skis. There are lots of good bump skis out there: Volkl Dragon Slayers, Solomon 1080 Moguls, K2 Cabrawlers. I'm on last year's Rossignol Scratch Mogul and I like it, but I don't think Rossi is making the ski this season.

The problem with mogul skis: they're not too versatile... they're not too shaped and they're not easy to arc / carve on groomers like shaped skis are. My Rossis, for example, are 99-66-82, and they're relatively shaped for a bump ski!

As for length... with bump skis, I always tend to go with the longest available. (I'm 6 ft. tall.) Shorter skis are good for whipping around in the air, but all bump skis are relatively short these days. (I used to compete on 195s/200s.)

If you want just one ski for the season, and want versatility for the whole mountain, you should probably survey all of the new all-terrain-expert (a.k.a. all-mountain-expert)skis out there. Read the buyers' guides, then attend a demo day and find the AME/ATE ski that feels best to you in the bumps.

And my book does have a few other equipment tips in it, Marc.


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## dipiro (Oct 22, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> I understand Sunapee does some seeded runs too, but I've never skied there so I can't confirm.



Hey, Greg... yes Sunapee seeds a nice stretch of bumps on Flying Goose. These are the bumps on which the freestyle team trains and competes and they include jumps, too... a complete course.

As for learning on these Flying Goose bumps... the trail probably is, for the most part, too steep and challenging for aspiring bumpers, and the location -- directly under the chair -- might make the aspiring bumper a little nervous. At the very top of Flying Goose, though, the trail isn't too steep, and this section of bumps might be good for some learners. 

Also, I've seen short sections of nice, rhythmic bumps on easier Sunapee trails... not sure if these bumps were seeded or not, but they were great for learning.


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## JimG. (Oct 24, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

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Dan, I was hoping you'd eventually see these threads and contribute! I know the bumper who lobbies Loon to seed bumps; it's amazing the amount of grief he takes for his passion. Yes, alot of folks just don't want to see anything other than flat corduroy when they look down a run.

But, as you mention in your book, a majority of skiers want to improve their bump skills even if they don't publicly admit it. As an instructor/coach it was always a challenge to find terrain suitable to take them out of but not too far out of their comfort zone. I wish resorts would devote a little more beginner and intermediate terrain to bumps in an effort to meet that need.

Just finished the second reading of your book. Good stuff, the essence of how to learn bumping.


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## Sky (Oct 24, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> But, as you mention in your book, a majority of skiers want to improve their bump skills even if they don't publicly admit it. As an instructor/coach it was always a challenge to find terrain suitable to take them out of but not too far out of their comfort zone. I wish resorts would devote a little more beginner and intermediate terrain to bumps in an effort to meet that need.
> 
> Just finished the second reading of your book. Good stuff, the essence of how to learn bumping.



Here's where I am with bumps....they intimidate the sh** out of me...and I hate that.  Here's a classic situation.  Okemo a few years ago late in the day.  Working my way down Heaven's Gate only to find Screamin Demon all bumped up.  *choke*  I forget how I got down...some other trail.

So I'm "all done" with that crap.  I may not do zipper lines...and I won't buy a bump ski...but I'm not balking anymore.  Sure it may take me a long time to work my way down that slope...but I want the tools, the methodology, and a place to work on that skill set.

I ordered Dan's book over the weekend.  I look forward to the drills for flats and moving through the program.


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## JimG. (Oct 24, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

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You've made a good purchase. And you don't have to want to ski zipper lines to benefit greatly from Dan's coaching.


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## bvibert (Oct 24, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

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I just ordered Dan's book based on the recommendations of this forum as well.  Can't wait for it to come in!


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## Marc (Oct 24, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

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That's interesting you go with longer skis.  I always figured short and light was good as you need to turn quick.  Short = less angular momentum, and does light.

Well anyway, the Rossi's I ski on, 104 top width, 177 cm, not stiff at all are probably pretty good for learning bumps.

Just waiting for the trails to open now.


Thanks for the advice, Dan.


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## dipiro (Oct 26, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Dan, I was hoping you'd eventually see these threads and contribute! I know the bumper who lobbies Loon to seed bumps ...it was always a challenge to find terrain suitable to take them out of but not too far out of their comfort zone.
> ...Just finished the second reading of your book. Good stuff, the essence of how to learn bumping.



Hi Jim, 
Funny that you know the Loon guys I spoke of. The bump-skiing world can be a small one, I guess. And, yes, I hear they've really had to fight to keep those bumps on Rumrunner. Perhaps the downhill skiing masses will someday gain a better understanding of mogul technique and will want to have a few more good mogul fields on hand.

Thanks for your kind words about the book, and for thinking it's worth a second reading. Looking forward to reading your review.
-Dan


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## dipiro (Oct 26, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> ...I want the tools, the methodology, and a place to work on that skill set.
> ...I ordered Dan's book over the weekend.  I look forward to the drills for flats and moving through the program.



Sky521,
Thanks for giving my book a try! And do let me know what you think.
-Dan


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## dipiro (Oct 26, 2005)

bvibert said:
			
		

> I just ordered Dan's book based on the recommendations of this forum as well.  Can't wait for it to come in!



bvibert,
Thanks for buying a copy! Hope you like it!
-Dan


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## dipiro (Oct 26, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> [
> That's interesting you go with longer skis. I always figured short and light was good as you need to turn quick.  ...Thanks for the advice, Dan.



Marc,
My pleasure. Yes, the longer bump skis always seem to give me an added fore-and-aft stability that I like. As I mentioned, though, today's bump skis aren't very long, even at their longest.

By the way, I was wrong about this year's Rossis. Rossignol is still making the Scratch Mogul and, interestingly, this year's version is considerably more shaped than last year's version, which will probably mean more all-mountain versatility.


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## Marc (Oct 26, 2005)

Also wanted to say this picture from your book jacket and your blog is really cool-








And apparently the site won't let me hotlink it.

... I = teh suck at the interweb.


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## Greg (Oct 26, 2005)

Marc said:
			
		

> Also wanted to say this picture from your book jacket and your blog is really cool-
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## JimG. (Oct 26, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

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Guess Greg wanted to show he sucks at the internet too :lol:  :lol:  :lol: .


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## JimG. (Oct 26, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Funny that you know the Loon guys I spoke of. The bump-skiing world can be a small one, I guess. And, yes, I hear they've really had to fight to keep those bumps on Rumrunner.



Well, I'm guessing you're referring to joegm and his buddies; I know him through FirstTracksOnline which is where I came across your book. We share a passion for bumps.

Amazing how the internet makes those 6 degrees of separation seem alot smaller.


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## bvibert (Oct 26, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

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:lol: The pic in question:


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## dipiro (Oct 26, 2005)

bvibert said:
			
		

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## dipiro (Oct 26, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Well, I'm guessing you're referring to joegm and his buddies....



Jim,
Yes, joegm and his buddies. They found my blog and left comments and we e-mailed a bit. Joe sent photos of his crew out west at the Smart summer mogul camp. I guess they've done the camp the last six summers. They sound like die-hard bumpers.
-Dan


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## Greg (Nov 4, 2005)

I split this out from the original *November Ski Mag* thread as I feel it deserves its own.

I finished my first run through of Dan's book. Great stuff. I hope to do another run through before I get out skiing this season and I can certainly see myself referencing it throughout the ski season. For 11 bucks, it's worth every penny!


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## Sky (Nov 4, 2005)

Picked my copy up on the way home last night.

Looking forward to sitting down this weekend and cruising it.


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## bvibert (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm about half way through my copy, I hope to finish and make a second pass before my season starts as well.  So far it seems to be well written.


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## dipiro (Nov 4, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> I split this out from the original *November Ski Mag* thread as I feel it deserves its own.
> 
> I finished my first run through of Dan's book. Great stuff...  For 11 bucks, it's worth every penny!



Thanks, Greg. Glad you like the book!


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## dipiro (Nov 4, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> Picked my copy up on the way home last night.



Sky,
Just curious... you say you picked it up; was a local bookstore stocking it? Or maybe you ordered a copy through a store?
-Dan


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## dipiro (Nov 4, 2005)

bvibert said:
			
		

> So far it seems to be well written.



Thanks, Brian.


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## BeanoNYC (Nov 4, 2005)

I just ordered my copy of the mogul book along with breakthrough on skis.  I'm quite new to skiing and my goal for this year is not to crap my pants when I come upon a mogul run.  I can pretty much ski any groomers thrown at me, it's the more uneven terrain that I choke on.

Warning: If you ever make it to a meet up, I'm bringing my copy for a signiature so I can Impress all my friends.  :wink:


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## dipiro (Nov 4, 2005)

BeanoNYC said:
			
		

> I just ordered my copy of the mogul book



Thanks for buying the book, Rich! Let me know what you think.
-dd


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## Sky (Nov 4, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Just curious... you say you picked it up; was a local bookstore stocking it? Or maybe you ordered a copy through a store?



I ordered it through ...?  Barnes and Noble (had to think about that)

Happened to be dopping my daughter off @ the relatively new Blackstone Valley Mall, ran an errand n the Verizon store...and B&N is right next door.

I called around to a few stores to see if someone had it in stock...but when I walked into B&N in Blackstone Mall...and they didn't have it but could order it...I jumped on the opportunity (it's on my commute home...very convenient).


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## dipiro (Nov 4, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> I ordered it through ...Barnes and Noble... the relatively new Blackstone Valley Mall



Okay. Thanks, Sky. 
Blackstone Valley, eh? I grew up in Lincoln, RI... not too far away, I think.
-dd


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## tirolerpeter (Nov 4, 2005)

*Mogul Skiing Book*

My copy arrived on Tuesday, and I read it through on Wednesday while on a trip to Nashua NH (on a Quilt Show Trip with the wife).  Great stuff.  I was really pleased to see that I have already mastered the "home" posture.  That is the stance that I have used for skiing for a long time.  I found that once I really got used to it, I feel most comfortable using it for virtually all conditions and terrain.  In fact, when I feel myself tiring I actually "revert" to this posture as a way to rest while I am still skiing on a trail.  I'm really looking forward to trying the techniques described in the book.   While I love carving nice GS turns on wide, empty steeps, I also use the "narrow" lane technique when I have to "dance" along the edge of a trail when the powder has been scraped off the trail centers near the end of a day.  A little game I play is to try to keep my tips running straight down an imaginary line while I cycle my skis to the left and right of this imaginary line to get some edge and contol my speed.  If I understand the book, this is something similar to what is described.  *NOW I NEED SOME SNOW TO TRY THIS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## dipiro (Nov 5, 2005)

*Re: Mogul Skiing Book*



			
				tirolerpeter said:
			
		

> My copy arrived on Tuesday, and I read it through on Wednesday while on a trip... Great stuff.  I was really pleased to see that I have already mastered the "home" posture.  That is the stance that I have used for skiing for a long time.... I feel most comfortable using it for virtually all conditions and terrain.... I also use the "narrow" lane technique when I have to "dance" along the edge of a trail when the powder has been scraped off the trail centers near the end of a day....



Yup, the home posture can be used as a sort of ready-for-anything, all-mountain stance. It's a really useful weapon to have in the arsenal, and it's cool that you already use it. Because mainstream skiing is so obsessed with racing-derived technique (the purely carved or "arced" turn) a lot of good groomed-trail skiers never discover other techniques, and this limits their skiing.

Glad you like the book. Thank you for buying a copy.
-dd


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## dipiro (Nov 5, 2005)

Say, if any of you who've read the book are interested in leaving a customer review on Amazon.com (or bn.com or other sites), I'd totally appreciate it. Right now, Amazon buyers have little more than the cover shot and title to go on.
-dd


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## haines (Nov 5, 2005)

If you want mogul advice ask me of course!

It takes practice.  absorb bumps with legs like a shock absorber.  Hands out in front, Poles move in "walking motion".  Upper body still.  Skiis maintain full contact with snow.  Speed constant.

Most of all commit to the right technique.  Practice in short bursts

Start with small bump patches and do them correctly

Skiing Bumps correctly is sexy!


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## BeanoNYC (Nov 5, 2005)

haines said:
			
		

> Skiing Bumps correctly is sexy!




No wonder I never get any when my wife and I go skiing.  She always told me her body was sore!  :wink:


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## BeanoNYC (Nov 5, 2005)

Hey Dan .... Just saw your name in Ski Mag's top 100 instructors.  (Under bumps)  Congrats!


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## dipiro (Nov 9, 2005)

BeanoNYC said:
			
		

> Hey Dan .... Just saw your name in Ski Mag's top 100 instructors.  (Under bumps)  Congrats!



Thank you! The _SKI_ editors rearranged the wording of my mogul tip for reasons that elude me, but I was glad to be included in the top-100.
-dd


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## JimG. (Nov 9, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

> The _SKI_ editors rearranged the wording of my mogul tip for reasons that elude me, but I was glad to be included in the top-100.
> -dd



They probably neglected to read the book :lol: !


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## dipiro (Nov 9, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
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I think you might be right. But _SKI_ instruction writer Stu Campbell did read it _after_ the Nov mogul issue came out.


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## Greg (Nov 9, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Say, if any of you who've read the book are interested in leaving a customer review on Amazon.com (or bn.com or other sites), I'd totally appreciate it. Right now, Amazon buyers have little more than the cover shot and title to go on.
> -dd


Done.


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## skibum1321 (Nov 9, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

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I'm from Craaaanston


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## dipiro (Nov 9, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
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Thanks, Greg! I appreciate it!
-dd


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## dipiro (Nov 9, 2005)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
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Went to high school with a bunch of guys from Cranston (PCD). 
Ever eat at Cafe Itri? A favorite of mine.


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## Sky (Nov 9, 2005)

RE: Cranston/Blackstone....

I'm from Douglas, MA

Dan, I only get to read a few pages at a time (which means I get about 5 or 10 minutes "access" time..Egad life is busy).

So far so good.  Good tips on rotating vs carving.

Have you read the Mogul guidance in "The All Mountain Skier"?  Different approach.  I think your guidance is better so far...specifically about staying out of the back seat.

I post on Amazon when I finally finish.


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## skibum1321 (Nov 9, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

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Never been there. I know my parents love it though.


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## dipiro (Nov 9, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> I'm from Douglas, MA... Dan, I only get to read a few pages at a time... Egad life is busy). So far so good. Good tips on rotating vs carving.
> 
> Have you read the Mogul guidance in "The All Mountain Skier"?  Different approach.  I think your guidance is better so far...specifically about staying out of the back seat.
> 
> I post on Amazon when I finally finish.



Douglas... that's just up 146 from Lincoln, right?

Glad you like the book so far.

I once scanned the mogul section of All Mountain Skier in a bookstore. Most of the written mogul advice out there is groomed-trail thinking in disguise, not authentic mogul technique. I remember that AMS was better than most. It did include some mogul-specific methods. But, if I remember correctly, it also left out some big pieces (e.g. not enough emphasis on absorption and extension).


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## dipiro (Nov 9, 2005)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Cafe Itri... Never been there. I know my parents love it though.



You'll have to try it when you head south.


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## Sky (Nov 10, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Douglas... that's just up 146 from Lincoln, right?
> 
> AMS ...left out some big pieces (e.g. not enough emphasis on absorption and extension).



Yes and yes.

146 is a stright shot from Providence to Worcester.  It gets me to Wa in about 45 minutes.

AMS (from what I remember) didn't discuss the absorption/extension piece.  What made me comfortable about thinking of follwing that guidance...it appeared as though the entry-level technique was described well enough to get me to attempt some easy bumps, which I sort-of did one bumped up day.

I'll be looking for time to finish your book for the first time this weekend...then I'll review before I head for bumps.


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## dipiro (Nov 11, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> I'll be looking for time to finish your book for the first time this weekend...then I'll review before I head for bumps.



Sounds good. Have fun.
-dd


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## JimG. (Dec 23, 2005)

Bump (I know, bad pun).

I know it's early and the bump lines are in their infancy, but has anyone had a chance to work on any of this? I'm very interested in any feedback anyone might have.


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## Greg (Dec 23, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Bump (I know, bad pun).
> 
> I know it's early and the bump lines are in their infancy, but has anyone had a chance to work on any of this? I'm very interested in any feedback anyone might have.


Working on the "home position". I'm a big time croucher so this is a good item to nail first. I've been trying to really concentrate on absorbtion too on the few cruddy bumps and snow piles I come across as well.


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## JimG. (Dec 23, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
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It shows in your avatar...you look much more relaxed and extended in that shot. And remember that absorption is only half of the equation...extention is key also.


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## Sky (Dec 23, 2005)

re: had a chance to work any of this....I've been out twice, and worked ONE piece of the guidance on the second event.

I was completely enjoying the great conditions @ Wa...and cramming in runs before going to work.  However, there were some bige snow-piles (I assume stockpiles for the coming crowds...to be spread out as needed).  Going over these big bumps, I actually absorbed and extended (errraahhh...once or twice in a row) and it felt quite natural.

I'll need to practice the swing-turns soon...seeing how many times I can rotate the skis in a given distance.

Good BUMP!


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## bvibert (Dec 23, 2005)

I haven't had much of a chance to work on any of it yet.  Of course I can't find my copy of the book to review...   I have been working on my stance, but thats more for my skiing in general...


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## Bumpsis (Dec 23, 2005)

OK, so it sounds like the book is worth the price, I'll look for it.

In the mean time, anyone cares to share some  actual tips on techniques that they found useful in their bump progress?

Here's where I am at:
I can do the zipper/fall line on most intermediate bumps for as long as they not too hard - meaning icy.

I run into trouble once the pitch of the slope resembles something of a more advanced trail.
Here, speed control becomes the issue. 

I just pick up too much speed to be comfortable, so after 5-6 zips, I blow the line  and have to ski off to the side.There I check my speed by absorb- traversing and hard dig of my tails across the downhill part of the mogul. Then I pick another line.

I'm not generally afraid of speed on even steeper groomers but in steep moguls speed scares me.

So for reference, most of the bump stuff at Loon - no problem.
Starr at Stowe (or similar)- too much speed.

As to equipment - I strongly prefer to ski bumps on my old "straight" K2 Kevlar Comps rather than my shaped skis.

Any constructive suggestions for possible improvement would be appreciated


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## riverc0il (Dec 23, 2005)

> And remember that absorption is only half of the equation...extention is key also.


great call jim.  i have still yet to read the book, but know my extension has been lacking in my technique and was able to work on this a few weeks back at stowe.  i really enjoyed nailing the absorbtion/extension technique, i never really worked hard on extended on the back side and tended to either carve the bump on take a bit of a jolt.  extended down the backside of the bump not only was slightly less painfull but also leaves you in full contact with the snow and thus more control.  i'll still use both techniques when needed or when i feel like, but i felt slightly quicker with a proper extension which i had not been properly utilizing before.


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## Greg (Dec 23, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Greg said:
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Thanks Jim. I got out tonight and mostly practiced standing tall and confident. I also worked on keeping my head up and actually overexaggerated by keeping my chin waaaaay up.


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## dipiro (Dec 24, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
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Greg,
I was thinking the same thing that Jim says above... you look taller in that new photo, like you've eliminated the bend at the back! Now make sure you're centered over your skis: drive those hips down the hill. (Can't tell if you're doing it in that photo or not.) You want your weight over the balls of your feet, not the heels. Nice work.
-Dan


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## dipiro (Dec 24, 2005)

Bumpsis said:
			
		

> OK, so it sounds like the book is worth the price, I'll look for it.
> 
> In the mean time, anyone cares to share some  actual tips on techniques that they found useful in their bump progress?
> 
> ...



Bumpsis:

I don't blame you for liking those K2 Kevlar Comps in the bumps; I used to compete on that very ski! They're nice in bumps.

Some advice about the ice/speed thing you describe above...  At faster speeds, and in icier bumps, you'll get less control from your edges, from turning. But you can still rely on the balance and speed control you can get from proper absorption and extension. If you absorb bumps smoothly and drive your skis back into the troughs with good extension, you'll keep your skis on the snow and this will help you maintain control, even when it gets icy and steep.
Heading straight down the zipper line on steeps and ice will take some getting used to, but you can practice on gentler bumps. Try increasing your speed in bumps you find comfortable, and really work that absorption and extension. Good A&E are the bumper's best friends. Lots more about this in my book, by the way.
Good luck.
-Dan


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## dipiro (Dec 24, 2005)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> > And remember that absorption is only half of the equation...extention is key also.
> 
> 
> extended down the backside of the bump not only was slightly less painfull but also *leaves you in full contact with the snow and thus more control*.  .



Yes, Rivercoil! Yes! Good work.
-Dan


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## dipiro (Dec 24, 2005)

Sky521 said:
			
		

> Going over these big bumps, I actually absorbed and extended (errraahhh...once or twice in a row) and it felt quite natural.



Sky,
Good call. Snow-making whales can be a good place to learn and practice. They're big, so you can really exaggerate the absorption and extension. Even just one whale can be useful. And you can work on driving your hips down the hill on the steep back side of the whale. You can get used to staying centered over your skis on a short bit of steepness, knowing that you'll be back on mellow, manageable terrain as soon as you pass the whale.
-Dan


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## Marc (Dec 24, 2005)

I still have yet to read Dan's book.  I know, I really should.  It's on my list.

I've been making some good progress in the bumps though, lately, at Attitash and this recent trip to Snow.

I skied Bear Trap a lot at Snow and Myth Maker on Bear Peak.  I already had pretty good form down on groomers, that is, good square shoulders, good angulation, etc.

The biggest thing I had to adjust to was turning early!! Much earlier than felt natural!  That's the only way you can keep contact on the back side of each mogul.  I heard a piece of advice to remember once that went "TGIF, tips go in first."  This helps to keep your weight forward and helps you turn early enough.  And if you're turning when you should you _have_ to look ahead or you won't have enough time to set up for subsequent turns.  And your speed will just naturally stay down.





I went down Ripcord at Snow too.  Definitely did no zipper line there.  Two or three turns and I had to go horizontal.  Man, 35 degree bumps, that's steep.  That's about all we said as we picked our way down.  "Yup, this is pretty steep."


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## ozzy (Dec 27, 2005)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Bumpsis said:
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i aggree with dan on this.  Absorbtion and extention are the most important key components of speed control.
sometimes to combat extension, i also pull back my feet to get back into the BBP (Balanced body position) with the balls of my feet or toes as i'm pushing my hips way, WAY foward.  I find this easier to keep your feet under your hips.  Remember, your absorbtion can only be as quick as your extention and vice versa.  Absorbtion comes naturally for most, it's the extension that takes more coridanition and balance. Somewhere between the A&E a turn or as mogul coaches have sometimes refered to it as a "micro edge set" is included in there
Also, a very good visual is John Smart's "Smart Mogul Skiing".  i've gone through two copies over the years.  It's well worth it.
That's my advice on mogul skiing.  It's like chess a short time to learn, a life timem to master.  get out there and get r done!


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## JimG. (Dec 27, 2005)

Great stuff! Keep up the good work!


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## SkiDork (Jan 3, 2006)

I got the book.  I was practicing the slip and grip and quick turning drills (from the first chapter) a lot this past week.  Those seemed to help me with quicker turning (duh!)

One thing I noticed - it's VERY hard to stay in the front seat (shin pressure) at all times.  I've REALLY got to work hard on being more consistent with that.  Also, staying tall is a big problem for me.  I find myself crouching a lot.

I also tried going across the hill doing A&E.  I suck at that.  My timing is so crappy as to be laughable.

Every once in a while I get in a groove and am able to actually make 5 or 5 bumps in a row.  But that happens so infrequently :-(  The next run I usually herb it up again.

There are so MANY things that go into successful mogul skiing, if I forget just one of them it's herb city for me.  And that happens most of the time.  Back-seat is just so big a problem for me.  And vision - I find myself staring at the mogul directly in front of me.  Plus the damn crouching problem.

When I put together those 3 things I am able to zipper line for a TEENY bit.

Yesterday on Needles Eye at K, all the bumpers were out there because it was the place to be.  I totally fell apart and couldn't put together 2 turns.  Feh.

I'm gonna continue to work on it, though.  My wife (Tyrolean Skier) thinks I'm dumb to put so much practice into becoming proficient at bumps.  But I'm gonna get them some day.


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## ozzy (Jan 3, 2006)

Hey dorque,
to help stay in the driving position and out of the back seat, try to pull your feet back with your forefoot(toes and balls of your feet).  this gives you continuous shin pressure throughout your A&E.
Crouching can be worked on by standing tall with your chest out and a pronounced lower "C" in the small of your back.  this gives your core a foundation.  a coach once told be to pretend that you have eyes under your nipples and they always try to look foward or down the hill.never down at the snow.
to bad i missed you guys on needles yesterday.  those bumps were fun once i was ready for it bhhy warming up on some groomers for a almost an hour or so.  small soft kneebanger bumps are always a fun time.


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## SkiDork (Jan 3, 2006)

ozzy said:
			
		

> Hey dorque,
> to help stay in the driving position and out of the back seat, try to pull your feet back with your forefoot(toes and balls of your feet).  this gives you continuous shin pressure throughout your A&E.
> Crouching can be worked on by standing tall with your chest out and a pronounced lower "C" in the small of your back.  this gives your core a foundation.  a coach once told be to pretend that you have eyes under your nipples and they always try to look foward or down the hill.never down at the snow.
> to bad i missed you guys on needles yesterday.  those bumps were fun once i was ready for it bhhy warming up on some groomers for a almost an hour or so.  small soft kneebanger bumps are always a fun time.



Pulling me feet back is the method I actually use to obtain shin pressure.  Too bad I don't actually do it more often...

I'll try the nipple eyes tip next time.

Can't visualize the C back thing, though.


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## ozzy (Jan 3, 2006)

have a strong pronounced arching lower back


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## SkiDork (Jan 3, 2006)

ozzy said:
			
		

> have a strong pronounced arching lower back



sort of like sticking out the gut?


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## JimG. (Jan 3, 2006)

Sort of, yes. Don't overdo it though. Ozzy's advice to pull your feet back is an excellent tip. Try to combine that move with some of the lower back arch he mentions and you will find yourself in an action ready and powerful skiing stance.

Alot of folks find themselves in the back seat when they try to extend into the next trough while skiing bumps. Making a conscious effort to arch the lower back will help your hips keep up with your feet and you will maintain that home posture more readily.


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## Greg (Jan 3, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> ozzy said:
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Interesting tip!


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## SkiDork (Jan 3, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Alot of folks find themselves in the back seat when they try to extend into the next trough while skiing bumps.



Yes exactly.  THis happens to me often.


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## JimG. (Jan 3, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

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Common in the bump learning process...it means you're trying all the right moves but just need more practice. 

Keep it real regarding where YOU are in the process. If you're finding that you're going mach 10 trying to ski steep bumps while other more accomplished bumpers are ripping all around you, back it down and move over to some lower angle bumps with less skiers. Practice a while and do so until you feel comfortable and confident.

Then go try those steeper lines again.


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## Greg (Jan 3, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Keep it real regarding where YOU are in the process. If you're finding that you're going mach 10 trying to ski steep bumps while other more accomplished bumpers are ripping all around you, back it down and move over to some lower angle bumps with less skiers. Practice a while and do so until you feel comfortable and confident.


Great advice. I've been known to ski the same runs over and over if I find the challenge is right for my ability. Great approach if solo, but fellow skiers may get annoyed.


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## JimG. (Jan 3, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
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Learning to ski bumps is a long process for most folks, me included. You can't fake it. Best to practice and make progress at a pace that makes you feel good about the process.

In these situations, going solo is often best unless you can hook up with a fellow bumper who is at the same level as you, more or less.


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## dipiro (Jan 3, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> I got the book.... it's VERY hard to stay in the front seat (shin pressure) at all times... Also, staying tall is a big problem for me.  I find myself crouching a lot.



Thanks for giving my book a try, SkiDork. Hang in there, practice a lot on easy terrain, and the bumps will get easier for you.

There's a huge psychological component to the problems you describe. Good mogul skiing posture feels, at first, unnatural, uncomfortable, not instinctual. When we face bumps, ice and steeps, we tend to instinctually draw our hips back towards the hill, and we instinctually crouch. These places feel safe. Obeying this instinct, however, results in a lack of control, in bad skiing. 

With practice, you'll train yourself to not submit to instinct, and to attack the bumps with good posture. Standing up tall and driving your hips down the hill can feel dangerous, risky, but when you do it, you suddenly gain control and start skiing well. Rest assured, though, that no one, not even world-cuppers, do it perfectly all the time. We all get caught in the back seat at least once in a while.

Good luck, and have fun.

-Dan


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## SkiDork (Jan 3, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

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Thanks.  I'm going to continue practicing and hopefully some day I'll make a breakthrough.


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## Greg (Jan 3, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> Thanks.  I'm going to continue practicing and hopefully some day I'll make a breakthrough.


Tonight, I had a break-through of sorts. The "extension" aspect finally clicked. I've always had trouble driving my skis down the back of the bumps, but tonight I practiced on some smooth crud piles (not quite moguls really) and it just clicked. These little incremental breakthroughs are what I love about skiing, and moguls in particular. It's as much mental as it is physical... :dunce:


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## SkiDork (Jan 4, 2006)

Last February I had a day where I could absorb and extend.  I couldn't recapture it the next weekend.  How bizarre is that?

It happened initially in The Light at K.  I was able to keep it up on Escapade.  The thing that helped me that day was thinking of doing a "prejump" (a racers prejump) right as I got to the mogul.  My legs automatically absorved and extended correctly that day and I was just hopping down the zipperline as casually as could be.

But the next weekend, all was lost.  Strange stuff.


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> Last February I had a day where I could absorb and extend.  I couldn't recapture it the next weekend.  How bizarre is that?
> 
> It happened initially in The Light at K.  I was able to keep it up on Escapade.  The thing that helped me that day was thinking of doing a "prejump" (a racers prejump) right as I got to the mogul.  My legs automatically absorved and extended correctly that day and I was just hopping down the zipperline as casually as could be.
> 
> But the next weekend, all was lost.  Strange stuff.


Well, at least you know now when it feels right. That's half the battle. The rest is just logging the mileage...


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## Marc (Jan 6, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> SkiDork said:
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I agree, I've come to realize it is the challenge of being able to ski something I once couldn't that really makes skiing enjoyable for me right now.  The learning process and overcoming challenges is addicting.  I still have moments where putting it all together, the angulation, cherry picking, absorbing and extending, leaning forward and staying square to the fall line, still aren't ingrained in my muscle memory and I catch myself lapsing.  But as someone said, that wears down with the mileage.

Durying my last trips out to Attitash, Snow, and recently Killington I've essentially learned to be a bump skier in about 4 - 5 days worth of skiing.  I was able to tackle Downdraft at Killington the begining of this week without much fear or fanfare.  Looking up at it now knowing last year I would've wet myself looking up at it is a damn good feeling.


But don't worry, everyone, I still fall plenty and I am sure I have many left in my bag for whenever the first AZ gathering should occur...

 :beer:


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## JimG. (Jan 6, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> I agree, I've come to realize it is the challenge of being able to ski something I once couldn't that really makes skiing enjoyable for me right now.  The learning process and overcoming challenges is addicting.  I still have moments where putting it all together, the angulation, cherry picking, absorbing and extending, leaning forward and staying square to the fall line, still aren't ingrained in my muscle memory and I catch myself lapsing.  But as someone said, that wears down with the mileage.
> 
> Durying my last trips out to Attitash, Snow, and recently Killington I've essentially learned to be a bump skier in about 4 - 5 days worth of skiing.  I was able to tackle Downdraft at Killington the begining of this week without much fear or fanfare.  Looking up at it now knowing last year I would've wet myself looking up at it is a damn good feeling.
> 
> ...



One of the best parts of the skiing experience is that the chance to overcome challenges never ends. There will always be a next challenge for you if you want to go after it.

This is particularly true for bump skiing...the techniques evolve constantly and there is always a new tweak to try.


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## ski_adk (Jan 6, 2006)

I can't wait for my copy of this book to arrive.  Twice this past week at Jiminy, I was skiing soft bumps, making several nice, ripping linked turns only to get completed launched on the 4th...and what I mean by launched is killer ski rebound after releasing the edge.  Basically, just finishing the turn got me kicked up into the air.

Anyways, I'm already starting to feel the bumps, mostly as a result of just reading some of the posts in this thread.  Thanks for the reference!


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## Greg (Jan 6, 2006)

ski_adk said:
			
		

> Twice this past week at Jiminy, I was skiing soft bumps


Where are the best bump lines at Jiminy right now?


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## kingslug (Jan 7, 2006)

Just read the book. My prob is on the icy stuff, as in Hunter's west side. It's so steep and slick you can't get a good bite. yet I see people get down it no prob, well some of them. It's hard to practice on it without taking a dive. Then it's yard sale time and clean up in aisle 5. When I go out west I have no prob, except getting tired. Ice moguls, toughest condition I know.


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## riverc0il (Jan 7, 2006)

maybe all this talk about bump skiing will catch the eye of more ski areas and perhaps we can see some more bump trails, specifically half groomed blue squares and the like for good training grounds.  never made any sense why ski areas don't want to develop skiers that can ski the whole mountain well which increases enjoyment and thus increases skier visits.  perhaps this should be another thread, heh!   regardless, all this discussion about bump skiing certainly can't hurt!

:beer:


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## kingslug (Jan 7, 2006)

Spring skiing. I find this the best time to realy practice. The whole mountain gets bumped up, and ice is not an issue.


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## dipiro (Jan 9, 2006)

Greg, Jim, skidork, Marc, ski_adk, kingslug, rivercoil and everyone else following and participating in this thread:

I'm really psyched to see this conversation unfolding and continuing. In the fall of 2004, while I was still editing the book and just beginning photography, _SKI Magazine_ asked its readers, in its monthly online poll: "What aspect of your technique would you most like to improve this season?" Of five possible responses, the most popular, at 34%, was "bumps."

This poll helped to confirm for me my hunch that lots of experienced, enthusiastic skiers want and need good bump instruction and good bumps on which  to train. And you guys, with your willingness to read my book, and your enthusiastic participation in this thread, are confirming my hunch ever further.

I hope rivercoil's "maybe" will pan out: I hope ski areas will begin to provide more gentle mogul terrain for learning. I also hope manufacturers will make mogul skis more available, and make more all-terrain skis that are good in moguls. And I hope good, authentic, effective mogul instruction will seep from competitive freestyle programs into mainstream ski schools.

Maybe we'll see some progress along these lines in this new year. In the meantime, keep practicing and keep having fun. Happy New Year!

-Dan


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## Marc (Jan 9, 2006)

And a big thanks is definitely due in your direction, Dan.  Thanks for your expert participation.

I've been putting in the "mileage" this season now and wow.  Bumps are fun and addicting.  I avoid groomers now.  I've been finding them boring, even the steeps.

I love it.  There's just a steep learning curve in the very begining, but once the basic technique is just learned, not even mastered, a new whole world of skiing opens up to you.


It really is true what you say, Dan.  Good bump skiers are good skiers, period.


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## Greg (Jan 9, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> I hope rivercoil's "maybe" will pan out: I hope ski areas will begin to provide more gentle mogul terrain for learning.


I think it's happening. Check out my post *here*. Even my little local hill in CT is working on a seeded bump area specifically aimed at teaching. Jiminy now offers a dedicated bump run in Cutter (although the selection of Cutter isn't the best, but that's for another thread) and they, like many smaller areas, are letting sides of some trails bump up. I've also seen a lot of dedicated bump areas at Catamount. So it looks like some of the desire for moguls is catching on at the smaller feeder hills. Places like Loon have done a fine job at offering intermediate and beginner seeded bump runs the past few years. The purists may scoff at seeded moguls, but I think they're a great way to learn bumps so when you're faced with a challenging naturally bumped up black, you at least have the skill to handle it. Skier created bumps on intermediate terrain are usually formed by....intermediates, leading to inconsistent irratically spaced bumps. Seeding them provides consistent low-angle lines to practice on.



			
				Marc said:
			
		

> And a big thanks is definitely due in your direction, Dan.  Thanks for your expert participation.
> 
> I've been putting in the "mileage" this season now and wow.  Bumps are fun and addicting.  I avoid groomers now.  I've been finding them boring, even the steeps.
> 
> ...


Well said, Marc. I concur with all you've posted.


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## skibum1321 (Jan 9, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> And a big thanks is definitely due in your direction, Dan.  Thanks for your expert participation.
> 
> I've been putting in the "mileage" this season now and wow.  Bumps are fun and addicting.  I avoid groomers now.  I've been finding them boring, even the steeps.
> 
> ...


I'm with you on finding groomers boring. I've avoided groomers at all costs for years. I'm either in the trees or in the bumps/ungroomed.


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## Greg (Jan 9, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> I'm with you on finding groomers boring. I've avoided groomers at all costs for years. I'm either in the trees or in the bumps/ungroomed.


Likewise, although if groomed runs are the only ones available, I can entertain myself on the trail sides. Sometimes it's find to hop up and over the lip formed by the groomer.


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## JimG. (Jan 9, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> maybe all this talk about bump skiing will catch the eye of more ski areas and perhaps we can see some more bump trails, specifically half groomed blue squares and the like for good training grounds.  never made any sense why ski areas don't want to develop skiers that can ski the whole mountain well which increases enjoyment and thus increases skier visits.  perhaps this should be another thread, heh!   regardless, all this discussion about bump skiing certainly can't hurt!
> 
> :beer:



Your post is in exactly the right place. I've been fighting the battle for bumped up beginner and intermediate areas at Hunter for years. It's a very tough sell.

Even when management agrees to allow the bumps to form, the wave of older passholders who have been skiing Hunter for 35 years who decend on management and demand that the bumps be mowed down is overwhelmimg.

It's so unfair because those folks rarely even go into those areas and are usually inside and done skiing by 11:00am. 

What's worse is that the freestyle teams are just left swinging...few good bump lines to train on, the ones that exist are so crowded it becomes dangerous.

I don't get it.


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## SkiDork (Jan 9, 2006)

Dan, you could probably make a decent amount of cash if you ran some bump clinics.  I know I'd try to be there if you did.


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## riverc0il (Jan 9, 2006)

you know what makes no sense?  bumps fit in perfectly with the nu-skool mentality of park rats and folks wanting to go big.  this is where it all came from!  guys have been going big off jumps for years and years before parks came into play, you just had to nail them in between 2 dozen zipper lined bumps at 40 mph :lol: seriously though, i figured some bump runs would tie in well with the park movement.  maybe they need some part elements within a bump run, a featured hit or two in the middle of the run to liven things up.  i dunno, just makes no sense that most ski areas answer to demands for a bump run is to leave one or two token trails ungroomed the entire season and not clean up the bumps when they get nasty.

appreciate the positiveness of this thread by the way! 
:beer:


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## dipiro (Jan 10, 2006)

My pleasure, Marc. Glad to hear you've caught the bump skiing bug! Yeah, with just a few bump techniques in place, a whole new downhill skiing world opens up for you.

Greg, good to hear that Sundown is creating some bump terrain. And, yup, rhythmic, regular bumps are certainly best for learning. 

Skidork, thanks for mentioning the bump clinic idea. I've been considering it. Perhaps something for next season.

-Dan D.


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## hammer (Jan 10, 2006)

Does anyone have any suggestions for an "ability test" for starting to ski moguls?

I'm getting a little better at handling the "crud mounds" on blue terrain, but I'd rather have a better idea of whether I'm ready to hit the mogul fields before I get in over my head... :-?


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## SkiDork (Jan 10, 2006)

hammer said:
			
		

> Does anyone have any suggestions for an "ability test" for starting to ski moguls?
> 
> I'm getting a little better at handling the "crud mounds" on blue terrain, but I'd rather have a better idea of whether I'm ready to hit the mogul fields before I get in over my head... :-?



Moguls are a constant work in progress.

Get Dans book - you'll get all your answers there.

$crew PSIA!!!!


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## JimG. (Jan 10, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> Moguls are a constant work in progress.
> 
> Get Dans book - you'll get all your answers there.
> 
> $crew PSIA!!!!



Hammer, this is your best bet by far. I reviewed Dan's book and wound up reading it several times. I've been skiing bumps for a long time and the amount of additional tidbits of knowledge I got from Dan's book shocked me. 

I've been applying some of these tweaks since the season started, in addition to one I got from Dan's blog. Anytime you throw a few tweaks into your skiing it feels strange at first. The past few weeks everything seems to be clicking. 

This past weekend I felt really good; a buddy took some pics of me and I was really happy with what I saw...nice tall stance, hands driving forward and down the hill, feet together, but with a general look of relaxation.

Buy the book.


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## Greg (Jan 10, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> This past weekend I felt really good; a buddy took some pics of me and I was really happy with what I saw...nice tall stance, hands driving forward and down the hill, feet together, but with a general look of relaxation.


Post the pics!


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## bvibert (Jan 10, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
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No, we hate pics here... :roll:


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## SkiDork (Jan 10, 2006)

here's where I am with the book:

In the first or 2nd chapter Dan talks about doing "slip and grip" drills, then talks about doing quick turns on the flats.

I've been doing a LOT of slip and grip drills, then I transition into quick turns with mostly rotation and a little carving right in the transition.

It REALLY has helped me with getting the feel for how to do quick turns - sort of like the old fashioned wedeling.

THos quick turns have helped me on the steeps, where I like to go right along the edge (where the good snow is) and just hop along in that good snow.  Good stuff.

I'm still working on A&E...


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## Greg (Jan 10, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> THos quick turns have helped me on the steeps, where I like to go right along the edge (where the good snow is) and just hop along in that good snow.  Good stuff.


Yup. I'm probably far from what one would call a graceful carver. I prefer to make short snappy rotary turns even on groomed snow. Because of this I tend to ski slower even on steep groomers. Playing in the crud and LGR piles on trail sides is great practice for bumps.


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## JimG. (Jan 10, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
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OK! I didn't before because these are taken on flats, but then I realized I'm usually very lazy on flats and the fact that I'm looking locked and loaded is a good thing:

http://www.powderhound.org/cgi/imgt...name=Hunter_01-08-06_JimG_bleeker_a1&type=jpg

http://www.powderhound.org/cgi/imgt...name=Hunter_01-08-06_JimG_bleeker_a2&type=jpg

http://www.powderhound.org/cgi/imgt...name=Hunter_01-08-06_JimG_bleeker_a3&type=jpg

http://www.powderhound.org/cgi/imgt...name=Hunter_01-08-06_JimG_bleeker_a4&type=jpg


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## bvibert (Jan 10, 2006)

Here ya go Jim:


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## JimG. (Jan 10, 2006)

bvibert said:
			
		

> Here ya go Jim:



Thanks B! I'm somehow baffled by the image loading tool. I put links up instead.


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## Greg (Jan 10, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Thanks B! I'm somehow baffled by the image loading tool. I put links up instead.


Your first attempt was a URL to a page not an image file directly. Nice pics. Looks like some new avatar material in there...


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## jackstraw (Jan 10, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

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im w/ u guys but a groomer is the best place to work the fundamentals.  yrs ago a friend and i were at a small hill in ME w/ no bumps.  we decided to try and make some    we skied the same line almost all day.  i improved more in that one day then any other before or since.  also, guys that mention 'hop'.  not recommended, keep your skis on the snow as much as possible if you want to ski the bumps.  you don't have control when your edges are in the air.  in time you can certainly pull it off.  
if you look back at plake he always tried to turn on the back side of the bump where there is usually carvable (is that a word??) snow...cheers!


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## Marc (Jan 10, 2006)

jackstraw said:
			
		

> Greg said:
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When others have mentioned almost a hop turn, I don't think they mean skis off the snow.  If they will allow me to speak for them, I think all they mean is making a quick turn on steep terrain and the necessity for have clearance under the tales of your skis to do so.  What they're describing here includes remaining in contact with the snow with your tips.  Pressure on the front end of the ski not only allows for a pivot, but allows them to remain controlled and avoid crossing.

As a matter of fact, I watched an instructor at Killington last week demonstrate this pivot/hop turn to his beginner bump class down a groomed trail.  He obviously accentuated it but it confirmed my suspition that this part of my technique was correct.


You are right in thinking it isn't as necessary in lower angle or particularly close spaced bumps, because if they're well defined enough, you can find a spot on the bump itself on which to pivot and then slide down the back side.


The bumps I encountered at Snow this weekend on Jaws were steeper and further apart than those on say, Beartrap, so that hop turn, or pivot turn, whatever you want to call it, was necessary to use.


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## ski_adk (Jan 10, 2006)

I ordered the book last week and I'm still awaiting it.  Did it take any of you folks a little bit of time to receive it?

Either way, I was incorporating a lot of the tips from here on Saturday at Pico and wow, it was awesome.  I actually felt like I was ripping it up on Upper Pike.  Anyways, I can't wait for the new reading material.


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## jackstraw (Jan 10, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> When others have mentioned almost a hop turn, I don't think they mean skis off the snow.  If they will allow me to speak for them, I think all they mean is making a quick turn on steep terrain and the necessity for have clearance under the tales of your skis to do so.  What they're describing here includes remaining in contact with the snow with your tips.  Pressure on the front end of the ski not only allows for a pivot, but allows them to remain controlled and avoid crossing.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I watched an instructor at Killington last week demonstrate this pivot/hop turn to his beginner bump class down a groomed trail.  He obviously accentuated it but it confirmed my suspition that this part of my technique was correct.
> 
> ...



right on!  i haven't read this whole thread so excuse me on anything that's already been said.  anyway, don't think too much about it and become over technical which can lead to a stiff or rigid motion whereas you want to be as fluent as possible. if you watch the pro's (all the k-marters, remember Donna W on outerlimits doing laps!  ) you'll notice the incredible amount of knee movement up and down.  if you're not working your abs, you need to be!  obviously, doing that keeps the ski in contact w/ the snow thru the troughs.  

personally, i don't ski the bumps anymore unless necessary, but im certainly glad for the years i put in.  see ya inda woods!


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## 2knees (Jan 11, 2006)

My .02 cents on this topic.  I’ve noticed  that, generally, people are always preaching complete extension down the backside of each mogul always staying in contact with the snow.  This is technically  correct, no argument from me on that, but personally I think it is imperative at times to know when to simply air it out to the next face.  It creates a natural speed check, allows for a complete bypass of the common cross cut troughs we see now and shouldn’t be regarded as improper technique.  Keeping your skis in constant contact throughout a bump run can be impossible depending upon the bumps you are in.  If they are seeded, sure you have nicely spaced lines with manageble troughs that can make for some great lines.  This is not generally the case though.  (I.E. any bump run on the north face of  Mt. Snow)  Call me a dinosaur, but pre shaped/short skis and snowboards, it was much easier to find reasonable lines on just about any bump run.  Now we have a tendency to see massive crosscut troughs that snap your skis back around if you arent built like J. Bloom or such and the now you see me now you don’t lines.    In these instances, I find it very useful to be able to stay on top per se and really just hit a tiny edge set as I contact the face.  The A&E is still there, just not necessarily the driving of the tips back down with as much conviction.  You certainly don’t want to drill your tips on a downward plane into the face of 4 foot bump too many times.  I guess my point is that there is the optimal “perfect scenario” way to handle bumps but the reality of it is, for me anyway, the ability to incorporate a number of techniques.   The placement of hands, the boot pressure, the stance all remain the same.


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## Greg (Jan 11, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> My .02 cents on this topic.  I’ve noticed  that, generally, people are always preaching complete extension down the backside of each mogul always staying in contact with the snow.  This is technically  correct, no argument from me on that, but personally I think it is imperative at times to know when to simply air it out to the next face.  It creates a natural speed check, allows for a complete bypass of the common cross cut troughs we see now and shouldn’t be regarded as improper technique.  Keeping your skis in constant contact throughout a bump run can be impossible depending upon the bumps you are in.  If they are seeded, sure you have nicely spaced lines with manageble troughs that can make for some great lines.  This is not generally the case though.  (I.E. any bump run on the north face of  Mt. Snow)  Call me a dinosaur, but pre shaped/short skis and snowboards, it was much easier to find reasonable lines on just about any bump run.  Now we have a tendency to see massive crosscut troughs that snap your skis back around if you arent built like J. Bloom or such and the now you see me now you don’t lines.    In these instances, I find it very useful to be able to stay on top per se and really just hit a tiny edge set as I contact the face.  The A&E is still there, just not necessarily the driving of the tips back down with as much conviction.  You certainly don’t want to drill your tips on a downward plane into the face of 4 foot bump too many times.  I guess my point is that there is the optimal “perfect scenario” way to handle bumps but the reality of it is, for me anyway, the ability to incorporate a number of techniques.   The placement of hands, the boot pressure, the stance all remain the same.


Interesting. Is it your observation that the actual shape of bumps and zipperlines have changed signficantly with the new ski technology versus what they were when skis were all straight?


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## JimG. (Jan 11, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> My .02 cents on this topic.  I’ve noticed  that, generally, people are always preaching complete extension down the backside of each mogul always staying in contact with the snow.  This is technically  correct, no argument from me on that, but personally I think it is imperative at times to know when to simply air it out to the next face.  It creates a natural speed check, allows for a complete bypass of the common cross cut troughs we see now and shouldn’t be regarded as improper technique.  Keeping your skis in constant contact throughout a bump run can be impossible depending upon the bumps you are in.  If they are seeded, sure you have nicely spaced lines with manageble troughs that can make for some great lines.  This is not generally the case though.  (I.E. any bump run on the north face of  Mt. Snow)  Call me a dinosaur, but pre shaped/short skis and snowboards, it was much easier to find reasonable lines on just about any bump run.  Now we have a tendency to see massive crosscut troughs that snap your skis back around if you arent built like J. Bloom or such and the now you see me now you don’t lines.    In these instances, I find it very useful to be able to stay on top per se and really just hit a tiny edge set as I contact the face.  The A&E is still there, just not necessarily the driving of the tips back down with as much conviction.  You certainly don’t want to drill your tips on a downward plane into the face of 4 foot bump too many times.  I guess my point is that there is the optimal “perfect scenario” way to handle bumps but the reality of it is, for me anyway, the ability to incorporate a number of techniques.   The placement of hands, the boot pressure, the stance all remain the same.



Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.


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## 2knees (Jan 11, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Interesting. Is it your observation that the actual shape of bumps and zipperlines have changed signficantly with the new ski technology versus what they were when skis were all straight?



Yes, while many probably would disagree with me, i firmly stand by that opinion as a generalization. Not 100% but you dont see the naturally formed tight lines with the same frequency that existed prior.  I'm not suggesting a return to 195 straights for people, but before snowboarding (not bashing boarders here) and shorter skis, the level of skill required was greater therefor limiting the amount of skiers who were in over their heads and skidding sideways and such. That, in turn, makes for severely misshapen bumps/lines. Or, could it be that i am having the dreaded "in the good old days" mentality?  Maybe but i dont think so.  In the end it's all good though.  great thread.


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## 2knees (Jan 11, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.



lol sorry, maybe i should read the book.


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## JimG. (Jan 11, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
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Please don't apologize...my post was meant as an affirmation of your post. Those cross cut troughs are a real pain and they seem to pop up alot more frequently in naturally formed bump fields.

Trough hopping is a skill I learned early on as a way to avoid those ugly troughs. Isn't it amazing that you can ski a perfect line of 15 or so bumps, then suddenly find a cross cut trough, hop it, then ski another perfect line to the bottom? Makes me wonder what happened at that one spot to cause that nasty trough.


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## SkiDork (Jan 12, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

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Gotta agree with you on the troughs.  They suck.  I encounter a lot of them on upper Wildfire at K.

BTW - SkiNutDave said you're a good guy.  Looking forward to Sunday, maybe it'll be a pow day!!!


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## JimG. (Jan 12, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

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I like eternal optimists! One thing is for sure, Sunday will present many opportunities to brush up on ice skiing technique. K27 will be a challenge, if it's open.


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## SkiDork (Jan 12, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

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I think I'll touch up the edges on all the skis tonight.


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## dipiro (Jan 12, 2006)

Hammer,
Look for a few small bumps on a gentle and otherwise groomed trail. If you can, start with just two or three bumps and see how it goes. You can even start with just one bump, actually. The trick is to *NOT* jump into a steep zipperline right off the bat, but to build your skills slowly and ease into the bumps, starting with just a few, soft, small, rhythmic moguls first, if possible. More about this and the techniques you'll need, in my book.

Skidork,
Thanks for recommending the book. And, yes, the quick turn drill is like old-fashioned wedeling.

Jim,
*REALLY* good to hear that you, with your previous bump skiing knowledge and ability, find the book worth multiple reads. Thank for mentioning it!

-Dan D


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## dipiro (Jan 12, 2006)

P.S....

Jim,
Nice pics. #3 is looking especially good.

Greg and Jackstraw,
Yeah, working the fundamentals on groomers is totally key. The Finish World-Cuppers are huge fans of flats training. Can also be a way to have fun on boring terrain.

2knees (good name),
I'm coaching competitors these days on really nice, rhythmic, seeded bump courses, but I skied two days ago on good ol', hard, gnarly, irregular, skier-made bumps at Cannon and was reminded of what a difference there is between rhythmic and irregular bumps. Yeah, the skis usually need to leave the snow (trough hop) at some point, in irregular moguls. Also, in any sort of bumps, the skis leave the snow between bumps when the bumper skis fast. Skis-on-the-snow is the rule of thumb for good balance and speed control, but irregular terrain and fast mogul skiing are the two exceptions to the rule.

Greg and 2knees,
Are there more irregular bumps these days? Good question. Many of us have seen perfect, manicured bump courses these days, to which we now compare natural bumps... so maybe our standards are now higher. Or, yes, perhaps the new skis are cutting different bump shapes these days.

Thanks for ordering a copy of the book, ski_adk.

-Dan D


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## JimG. (Jan 12, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> P.S....
> 
> Jim,
> Nice pics. #3 is looking especially good.
> ...



Thanks Dan! Pic# 3 is my screensaver. I'm a big believer in using visualization techniques and that shot does my brain good.


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## dipiro (Jan 12, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Pic# 3 is my screensaver. I'm a big believer in using visualization techniques and that shot does my brain good.



Yeah, #3... tight stance, upright torso, hands reaching forward... and it looks like you're looking down the trail. Yup, there's good visual food for the brain.
 
-DD


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## Greg (Jan 12, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
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I've also found that sometimes stills don't do a skier's technique full justice. One little bobble, or a split second where the skier's skis splay apart and you can easily look like an intermediate. Considering the fact that in this series of pics, Jim looks very controlled and confident in all four, likely taken only seconds apart, it speaks highly of his form. At least on that run...


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## dipiro (Jan 12, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> I've also found that sometimes stills don't do a skier's technique full justice. One little bobble, or a split second where the skier's skis splay apart and you can easily look like an intermediate. Considering the fact that in this series of pics, Jim looks very controlled and confident in all four, likely taken only seconds apart, it speaks highly of his form. At least on that run...



Really good point, Greg. Very tough to look "on" in a series of snapshots, as snapshots have a way of picking up every little foible. (Did I ever learn that lesson during the book shoots; threw out hundreds of shots for every one used.)
-Dan D


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## Greg (Jan 12, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

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You have some great ones in the book. Where did you shoot them?


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## SkiDork (Jan 12, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

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what kind of skis are those?  The tops have some pretty wild graphics.  Can't place them...


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## dipiro (Jan 12, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> You have some great ones in the book. Where did you shoot them?



Thanks, Greg. All of the photos were shot at Cannon Mountain by photographer John McNamara, a great guy and a real pro. We shot for several hours per week, from December of 2004 through April of 2005.

-Dan D


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## JimG. (Jan 12, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

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Dynastar Candides...pretty old too. I bought a pair of Dynastar Concept 178's 5 years ago and absolutely loved them. Turned out that this was the same ski as the Candide which was from one season prior. So, I went onto Ebay and found a pair of the Candides (couldn't get the Concept 178 anymore) real cheap. They were brand new, still in the wrapper. This is my second season on them.


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## JimG. (Jan 12, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> I've also found that sometimes stills don't do a skier's technique full justice. One little bobble, or a split second where the skier's skis splay apart and you can easily look like an intermediate. Considering the fact that in this series of pics, Jim looks very controlled and confident in all four, likely taken only seconds apart, it speaks highly of his form. At least on that run...



So true...I've seen more than my share of HORRIBLE pics taken of me. Like Dan said, for every good one there are about 100 losers.


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## dipiro (Jan 13, 2006)

Well, I'm off to Sunday River tonight with the Waterville team for a Saturday mogul competition in the rain. Could be a little tough as I stand at the top of the course all day getting the kids ready for their runs. I'll wear waterproof layers and bring multiple pairs of gloves. See if I can stay dry. Maybe, at least, the snow will soften and ski well in the rain. Or maybe the weathermen will be wrong!

-Dan D.


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## SkiDork (Jan 13, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Well, I'm off to Sunday River tonight with the Waterville team for a Saturday mogul competition in the rain. Could be a little tough as I stand at the top of the course all day getting the kids ready for their runs. I'll wear waterproof layers and bring multiple pairs of gloves. See if I can stay dry. Maybe, at least, the snow will soften and ski well in the rain. Or maybe the weathermen will be wrong!
> 
> -Dan D.



Dan, what is the age range of the kids on the team?

My son is 8, he's done 2 years with the K Alpine Racing hopefuls and is now in his first year of freestyle hopefuls.  I'm just wondering at what age they actually start competing on freestyle...


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## dipiro (Jan 13, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

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SkiDork,

I believe he could start competing next season, at 9 years, but most Eastern Qualifying Series (EQS) competitors seem to be between 10-14 years.

You've got a good program over there at Killington. Matt Gnoza and his crew held a great B-level (EQS) season opener in December.

-Dan D.


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## JimG. (Jan 13, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Well, I'm off to Sunday River tonight with the Waterville team for a Saturday mogul competition in the rain. Could be a little tough as I stand at the top of the course all day getting the kids ready for their runs. I'll wear waterproof layers and bring multiple pairs of gloves. See if I can stay dry. Maybe, at least, the snow will soften and ski well in the rain. Or maybe the weathermen will be wrong!
> 
> -Dan D.



I know misery loves company, but it's near impossible to be miserable skiing. I'll be out there Saturday looking for rain soaked but probably soft lines to ski. I don't envy you having to stand at the top of a bump course watching instead of skiing, but getting soaked all the same.

But enjoy it anyway!


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## bvibert (Jan 13, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

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If it makes you feel any better I'll be stuck working the bottom of a lift in CT for 9 hours in the rain on Saturday...


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## Marc (Jan 13, 2006)

bvibert said:
			
		

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If it makes any of you guys feel better, I got much worse to do tomorrow...


I'm going to spend the whole day... um... drinking beer and watching football.



Ok, that's not nearly as bad as it first sounded.  Nevermind then.

 :dunce:


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## Sky (Jan 13, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> Ok, that's not nearly as bad as it first sounded.  Nevermind then.
> 
> :dunce:



I really think your missing an opportunity by NOT being on our race team @ Wa pal.  Too funny!


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## dipiro (Feb 1, 2006)

So, who'll be skiing Cannon on February 10th? I know JimG will be there. If we're lucky, we'll have a few soft bumps to ski.

-Dan DiPiro


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## JimG. (Feb 1, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> So, who'll be skiing Cannon on February 10th? I know JimG will be there. If we're lucky, we'll have a few soft bumps to ski.
> 
> -Dan DiPiro



I'm practicing on rock hard ice bumps just in case :lol: .


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## dipiro (Feb 1, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> I'm practicing on rock hard ice bumps just in case :lol: .



 Always a wise move when planning a trip to Cannon.
-dd


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## Greg (Feb 1, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

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Seriously though - forcing yourself to ski an icey bump run over and over can really help you improve. Plus it makes those days you score some hero bumps that much sweeter!


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## JimG. (Feb 1, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

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Wow Greg, you know you're starting to sound like a tried and true bumper.


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## Greg (Feb 1, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> tried and true bumper.


Someday maybe. Looking forward to riding the new boards through some bumps...maybe Sunday!


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## dipiro (Feb 1, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

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New boards? What'd you buy, Greg?
-dd


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## JimG. (Feb 1, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> So, who'll be skiing Cannon on February 10th? I know JimG will be there. If we're lucky, we'll have a few soft bumps to ski.
> 
> -Dan DiPiro



Ooops, forgot to mention that my 9 year old son Peter will be joining us. He's an aspiring ripper and skis everything.

I think we should have no trouble keeping up with him.


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## Greg (Feb 1, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

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> 
> ...


05/06 Volkl Unlimited AC3 in 170 cm. Not a mogul ski by any means, but hopefully a decent compromise for skiing bumps, crud, trees and groomers. I've been on 02 K2 Axis X Pros in 182 cm which are stiff and heavy and probably not a great choice for bumps.


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## Marc (Feb 1, 2006)

Balls.  I'd be there Fri if I could but our annual Kick Off meeting is the 10th.  I'm not really allowed to miss.


Unless you want to write me a note...?


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## awf170 (Feb 1, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> So, who'll be skiing Cannon on February 10th? I know JimG will be there. If we're lucky, we'll have a few soft bumps to ski.
> 
> -Dan DiPiro



I might be there, but I hate bumps...


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## ckofer (Feb 2, 2006)

Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one. Now I will go stand by the mailbox.


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## dipiro (Feb 2, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool. Always eager to lure youth over to skiing's dark side. (...as if dad hasn't already done it.)
-dd


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## dipiro (Feb 2, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hope you like them. If they don't work out, you can just trade 'em in for some Dragon Slayers.
-dd


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## dipiro (Feb 2, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> Balls.  I'd be there Fri if I could but our annual Kick Off meeting is the 10th.  I'm not really allowed to miss. Unless you want to write me a note...?



Sorry to hear it. Was looking forward to meeting the man behind the Bill Murray mask. 

...and that's GOLFERS, by the way, not gophers.

-Dan


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## dipiro (Feb 2, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hate bumps? Maybe I can help you with that.
-dd


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## Marc (Feb 2, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Sorry to hear it. Was looking forward to meeting the man behind the Bill Murray mask.
> 
> ...and that's GOLFERS, by the way, not gophers.
> 
> -Dan



Careful what you wish for.  I don't know if I'd be all that excited about meeting me.


Fuzzy little foreigner.


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## ckofer (Feb 2, 2006)

Isn't this Groundhog Day?


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## JimG. (Feb 2, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Come on Austin, hook up with us. 

When else this season are you going to be able to ski with a bump coach who was nationally ranked as a bump skier?

See the bump, ski the bump, love the bump 8) .


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## JimG. (Feb 2, 2006)

ckofer said:
			
		

> Inspired by this thread, I just ordered one. Now I will go stand by the mailbox.



You have chosen wisely.


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## awf170 (Feb 2, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> awf170 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, if I went and it wasnt a powder day I would probably join you guys.  I know there is no way of convincing my dad to though because of his back.


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## andyzee (Feb 3, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> So, who'll be skiing Cannon on February 10th? I know JimG will be there. If we're lucky, we'll have a few soft bumps to ski.
> 
> -Dan DiPiro



Me and my wife will be up, but not sure if we'd be able to keep up with you and JimG.


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## JimG. (Feb 6, 2006)

andyzee said:
			
		

> dipiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Join us! My 9 year old Peter will be with us too.

It'll be fun.


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## andyzee (Feb 6, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> andyzee said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd love to hook up with you guys, just wanted to give you fair warning. Hey we're checking into the same hotel as you on Thursday night.


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## dipiro (Feb 7, 2006)

Looking forward to meeting and skiing with you AZers on Friday!
-Dan D


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## airhed316 (Feb 8, 2006)

Dan DiPiro.  

I'm reading the threads thinking seems like I should know this guy.  Then it dawned on me.  I met you at the Comp Center at the Loon EQS moguls meet and if I recall you were with Shuffleton at the Loaf.  You made a sweet run through the bumps after the Loon meet was over.  Both of my sons ski for Loon Freestyle.  I'm ordering the book this evening for all of our education.


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## dipiro (Feb 8, 2006)

airhed316 said:
			
		

> Dan DiPiro.
> 
> I'm reading the threads thinking seems like I should know this guy.  Then it dawned on me.  I met you at the Comp Center at the Loon EQS moguls meet and if I recall you were with Shuffleton at the Loaf.  You made a sweet run through the bumps after the Loon meet was over.  Both of my sons ski for Loon Freestyle.  I'm ordering the book this evening for all of our education.



airhed316,
I just had to rip that Loon course. The bumps had softened up so nicely in the sun, and I'd been standing there watching the kids ski it all day long... I just couldn't resist.    Thanks for noticing. And thanks for buying a copy of my book. Let me know what you think. And if you're at the Sunapee meet this weekend, do say hello.
-Dan


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## airhed316 (Feb 8, 2006)

Dan

We'll see you and the Dub V crew at Sunapee.  We have a pretty good size crew from Loon going down.  Should be fun.

Mark Selingham


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## dipiro (Feb 13, 2006)

airhed316 said:
			
		

> Dan
> 
> We'll see you and the Dub V crew at Sunapee.  We have a pretty good size crew from Loon going down.  Should be fun.
> 
> Mark Selingham



For any of you mogul skiers who might be interested: Sunapee had some great terrain for the mogul competition this weekend. They blew a lot of snow over their previously frozen Flying Goose course, then skied it in. Probably some of the better bumps in NH right now.

And does anyone know how Sunapee made out with Sunday's nor'easter? (We were there for Saturday, only.) Cannon, Loon and Waterville received just a dusting to 3 inches.

-Dan


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## goldsbar (Feb 13, 2006)

Just took a quick read through the book and I'm anxious to try some of the techniques.  I found that I'm guilty of a couple of the common errors Dan pointed out (getting too much speed in slick flat sections, carving, etc.) and I'm anxious to try the hop.

Well written, simple in a good way and easy to understand.  Not always the case with ski books.


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## JimG. (Feb 14, 2006)

Got to ski with Dan this past Friday 2/9 at Cannon.

Unfortunately, there wasn't a bump to be found there. We had to be content ripping groomed terrain all day.

Even so, you can look at the way Dan skis and tell he rips it up in the bumps.

Our next meeting (in a few weeks?) will hopefully provide some sweet bump lines for us to showcase our skills.


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## andyzee (Feb 14, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Even so, you can look at the way Dan skis and tell he rips it up in the bumps.



That's for sure!


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## dipiro (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks for giving my book a try, Goldsbar. I appreciate it.

And good skiing with you, JimG, even though Cannon offered us no bumps.

-Dan


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## dipiro (Feb 14, 2006)

andyzee said:
			
		

> JimG. said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, guys.

-Dan


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## 2knees (Feb 16, 2006)

Here's a question for ya dan.  Hope you dont mind.  I was skiing our local hill yesterday, pretty easy bumps not very steep.  Greg took a couple of videos and i could see first hand what i had always thought.  while i do keep my hands out in front for the most part, i seem to have a habit of letting them sweep past me on the plant, like i'm planting too long.  This in turns forces me into the back seat a bit.  any tips for breaking this habit?


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## Greg (Feb 16, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> Here's a question for ya dan.  Hope you dont mind.  I was skiing our local hill yesterday, pretty easy bumps not very steep.  Greg took a couple of videos and i could see first hand what i had always thought.  while i do keep my hands out in front for the most part, i seem to have a habit of letting them sweep past me on the plant, like i'm planting too long.  This in turns forces me into the back seat a bit.  any tips for breaking this habit?


Hope _you _don't mind. Here are the vids in question:

*2knees vid #1* (6.6 MB MPG)
*2knees vid #2* (3.6 MB MPG)


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## JimG. (Feb 16, 2006)

Here's a thought I've mentioned in other posts:

Try to soften what you call a pole "plant" into what I call a pole "touch". The pole touch is that third point of contact with the snow that helps our brain read the terrain we're on. All you need is a touch.

I sometimes find myself stabbing at bumps too much also, especially when I'm in an aggressive mood. With me, it's a function of reaching out too far for the next bump, and it's usually an indicator that I'm not standing as tall as I can. So I stop and regroup, making sure I'm tall and relaxed and that my hands don't fly away from me as you mention. That in itself makes me ski bumps 100% better.

You might also want to try shorter poles; that made a BIG difference for me. I dropped from 50" poles down to 46" and have used my adjustable poles as short as 44".


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## Greg (Feb 16, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> You might also want to try shorter poles; that made a BIG difference for me. I dropped from 50" poles down to 46" and have used my adjustable poles as short as 44".


I dropped to 48" poles from 50" myself. I was using the 50 inchers yesterday though as I lost a basket on my new ones (K2 is sending replacement free of charge :beer. I need to lighten up on the pole plant too...


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## 2knees (Feb 16, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Here's a thought I've mentioned in other posts:
> 
> Try to soften what you call a pole "plant" into what I call a pole "touch". The pole touch is that third point of contact with the snow that helps our brain read the terrain we're on. All you need is a touch.
> 
> ...



good points.  I have a tendency to reach out myself as well as use too much force on my plant.  I've always gone by the "grab below the basket, 90 degree elbow" theory with poles.  Im 5'9 and use 48 inchers.  Mine are bent up so it's time for new ones.  I think i'll drop down and try that.  thanks.


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## Greg (Feb 16, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> "grab below the basket, 90 degree elbow" theory with poles.


Likewise. I think that's an optimal length for groomers.


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## JimG. (Feb 16, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> I've always gone by the "grab below the basket, 90 degree elbow" theory with poles.  Im 5'9 and use 48 inchers.  Mine are bent up so it's time for new ones.  I think i'll drop down and try that.  thanks.



I'm 6'3" and use 46" poles. And sometimes I feel better at 44".

You need to try shorter poles; that will make a big difference for you.


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## dipiro (Feb 16, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> Here's a question for ya dan.  Hope you dont mind.  I was skiing our local hill yesterday, pretty easy bumps not very steep.  Greg took a couple of videos and i could see first hand what i had always thought.  while i do keep my hands out in front for the most part, i seem to have a habit of letting them sweep past me on the plant, like i'm planting too long.  This in turns forces me into the back seat a bit.  any tips for breaking this habit?



2knees:

I couldn't get Greg's videos to work. I've got dial-up up here in the mountains and video downloads sometimes just don't happen.

Break that habit by working on your poling form on easy groomed trails. Hold your hands about shoulder-width apart, and in your lower peripheral vision as you look down the trail. Poling is done almost exclusively with the wrist, so hand-position remains almost perfectly fixed as you ski. As JimG said, poling should be just a touch, not a hard stab; and you shouldn't ever support your weight with your pole plants while skiing downhill. Once you've eliminated the dramatic hand movements on easy groomers, try to bring that nice quiet poling into the bumps. Practice, practice, practice.

Pole length: for the bumps, a good rule of thumb is one grip's length shorter than you'd ordinarily use for groomed-trail skiing.

More info about poling, hand-position and equipment in my book. Good luck!

-Dan D.


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## 2knees (Feb 16, 2006)

thanks for the tips.  I just ordered your book from amazon.


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## dipiro (Feb 16, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> thanks for the tips.  I just ordered your book from amazon.



Thanks for giving my book a try, 2knees. Hope you like it.
-Dan


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## SkiDork (Feb 27, 2006)

I figured out something yesterday:

You know how Dan talks about the proper "TALL" stance?

Well, it works.  I usually (probably defensively) come into a bump in a crouch - knees already bent.  I got nothin left to absorb with.

yesterday in the trees at K, when it was tracked out and bumped, I approached the bumps VERY tall.

Guess what?  It makes it MUCH easier to absorb.  

A breakthrough for me!!!!


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## skibum1321 (Feb 27, 2006)

Since I obviously wouldn't want to have 2 different sets of poles, would I be better off with shorter poles for normal skiing or longer poles for bump skiing?


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## SkiDork (Feb 27, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Since I obviously wouldn't want to have 2 different sets of poles, would I be better off with shorter poles for normal skiing or longer poles for bump skiing?




I'm 6'5" and I'm using poles that are only an inch or two longer than my wifes, who is 5'1"

I don't ever notice that they're too short.

FWIW.


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## dipiro (Feb 27, 2006)

SkiDork said:
			
		

> I figured out something yesterday:
> 
> You know how Dan talks about the proper "TALL" stance?
> 
> ...



Glad it worked for you, SkiDork!
-Dan


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## dipiro (Feb 27, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> Since I obviously wouldn't want to have 2 different sets of poles, would I be better off with shorter poles for normal skiing or longer poles for bump skiing?



Skibum1321,

You could try adjustable, telescoping poles, or just experiment with different lengths. Maybe go a bit shorter if you spend more time in bumps, a bit longer if you're usually on groomers.

-Dan


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## awf170 (Feb 28, 2006)

Just a suggestion.  But why don't you guys have a day at wildcat in april for bump skiing.  Wildcat in april for bumps is amazing.


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## kingslug (Feb 28, 2006)

Here's my question about learning the bumps. Jim G. gave me some advice that I think will help me in the moguls. Make more turns. I ski like a downhiller, very fast with few turns to scrub off speed, change line, etc. I noticed that he, Gregg and Pat are alway turning. Me, I just shoot down the hill. When I try to do a tight mogul course my legs don't want to turn that much. It's like they are saying " Were not ready to turn yet". This throws me off the course. The question is, do I have to change the way I ski to develop the muscle memory to do the bumps correctly. This would be a big change for me. Out west the areas are so vast that I feel the need to go fast just to get around. Plus powder skiing requires speed. Turning that much is also exhausting. Opinions?
P.S. I think this is one of Bode Millers slalom problems. He's very good in the speed events but has let his slalom technique go. I don't think his legs want to turn like they used to.


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## Marc (Feb 28, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> Here's my question about learning the bumps. Jim G. gave me some advice that I think will help me in the moguls. Make more turns. I ski like a downhiller, very fast with few turns to scrub off speed, change line, etc. I noticed that he, Gregg and Pat are alway turning. Me, I just shoot down the hill. When I try to do a tight mogul course my legs don't want to turn that much. It's like they are saying " Were not ready to turn yet". This throws me off the course. The question is, do I have to change the way I ski to develop the muscle memory to do the bumps correctly. This would be a big change for me. Out west the areas are so vast that I feel the need to go fast just to get around. Plus powder skiing requires speed. Turning that much is also exhausting. Opinions?
> P.S. I think this is one of Bode Millers slalom problems. He's very good in the speed events but has let his slalom technique go. I don't think his legs want to turn like they used to.



Check out the Cannon vid.  Watch my style (in the reddish sometimes orange looking coat/black pants and helmet).  Since I started breaking the upper intermediate barrier I started making shorter faster turns my primary style and form.  It just feels better to me.  You can better control and keep a consistent speed skiing like this.  Go faster?  Just angulate less.  Scrub speed?  Angulate and skid for a few turns.

Plus you'll almost never be at fault in any trail mishaps if you're "staying in your lane" so to speak.


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## kingslug (Feb 28, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> Check out the Cannon vid.  Watch my style (in the reddish sometimes orange looking coat/black pants and helmet).  Since I started breaking the upper intermediate barrier I started making shorter faster turns my primary style and form.  It just feels better to me.  You can better control and keep a consistent speed skiing like this.  Go faster?  Just angulate less.  Scrub speed?  Angulate and skid for a few turns.
> 
> Plus you'll almost never be at fault in any trail mishaps if you're "staying in your lane" so to speak.



I just can't get that zipper line down. Plus Hunter has no intermediate bumps to practice on. Belleayre on the other hand might be the trick, the whole place is bumped up. I've come to the conclusion that to be a really good eastern skier you have to be good in the bumps. This will be my goal.


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## SkiDork (Mar 1, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> Here's my question about learning the bumps. Jim G. gave me some advice that I think will help me in the moguls. Make more turns. I ski like a downhiller, very fast with few turns to scrub off speed, change line, etc. I noticed that he, Gregg and Pat are alway turning. Me, I just shoot down the hill. When I try to do a tight mogul course my legs don't want to turn that much. It's like they are saying " Were not ready to turn yet". This throws me off the course. The question is, do I have to change the way I ski to develop the muscle memory to do the bumps correctly. This would be a big change for me. Out west the areas are so vast that I feel the need to go fast just to get around. Plus powder skiing requires speed. Turning that much is also exhausting. Opinions?
> P.S. I think this is one of Bode Millers slalom problems. He's very good in the speed events but has let his slalom technique go. I don't think his legs want to turn like they used to.




Here's a drill that Dan talks about in his book, and is also highly regarded by CAPBOY from the KZone:

On a groomer:  pick a point approximately 50 yards away.  Now try to turn as many times as possible in that space.  Repeat.

CAPBOY says if you can do this for one hour, you're done for the day.


----------



## Greg (Mar 1, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> Here's my question about learning the bumps. Jim G. gave me some advice that I think will help me in the moguls. Make more turns. I ski like a downhiller, very fast with few turns to scrub off speed, change line, etc. I noticed that he, Gregg and Pat are alway turning. Me, I just shoot down the hill. When I try to do a tight mogul course my legs don't want to turn that much. It's like they are saying " Were not ready to turn yet". This throws me off the course. The question is, do I have to change the way I ski to develop the muscle memory to do the bumps correctly. This would be a big change for me. Out west the areas are so vast that I feel the need to go fast just to get around. Plus powder skiing requires speed. Turning that much is also exhausting. Opinions?
> P.S. I think this is one of Bode Millers slalom problems. He's very good in the speed events but has let his slalom technique go. I don't think his legs want to turn like they used to.


I guess the real question is what are you goals? If one is to ski bumps better, then yes, you'll have to change your style a bit. It's not that you can't ever go back to fast high speed arcs, but you do need to know how to make short consistent turns to be able to get started in the bumps. Also, realize that quick rotary turns are only part of skiing bumps. Proper absorbtion and extension is as important to controlling speed and I would argue it's an even more difficult aspect to learn. When you nail it though it feels so good.

You mention "out West". Is that where you primarily ski? If so, than perhaps your technique is appropriate when you're out there. As an East coast skier, one needs to be able to make the short snappy turns to truly become an "all-mountain" skier. Remember this, any skier that makes good short turns can also crank out some fast big turns any time they want. It's not something you have to give up. Also, short turns shouldn't be exhausting if done with proper technique. My suggestions would be simply devote one entire ski day (or the better part of one) to just making short turns on intermediate trails. Try to envision the spacing you might expect for moguls on such a trail and make turns accordingly. You really need to be able to quickly turn your skis before you can work on A&E. It's also not something that's going to happen overnight, but with practice, you will see small incremental changes that after the course of a few seasons will add up to substantial improvements in your overall skiing. You might even eventually learn to enjoy the slower short turns more than the fast long ones. I do!


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## rotorite86 (Mar 1, 2006)

Was going to check out the Original link since I wasn't browsing when it was posted, but:

Error 404: File Not Found.

Doh! 
Anyone got the original post/information, etc?


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## JimG. (Mar 1, 2006)

rotorite86 said:
			
		

> Was going to check out the Original link since I wasn't browsing when it was posted, but:
> 
> Error 404: File Not Found.
> 
> ...



The original link is gone because Greg changed the software recently. You're looking for this:

www.learnmoguls.com 

Bump skiing gold. The bumper's handbook, concise and well written.


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## JimG. (Mar 1, 2006)

It's so gratifying to see this conversation branching out and so many replying and sharing their bump experiences. The word is spreading. The recent posts by SkiDork (tall stance, drills for improving speed and rotary turns), kingslug (the desire for more intermediate bumps, something I think needs serious attention), and Greg (figuring out that absorption/extention is the key and taking the rapid turning into other terrain varieties) shows me that alot of folks are getting it.

I hope Dan see this.


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## Mark D (Mar 1, 2006)

i didn't look through very carefuly but do you guys have any tips as far as snowboard and moguls?


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## bvibert (Mar 1, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> The original link is gone because Greg changed the software recently. You're looking for this:
> 
> www.learnmoguls.com
> 
> Bump skiing gold. The bumper's handbook, concise and well written.


For anyone thats interested, I believe this is the destination of the original link:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=4978&highlight=dipiro

I edited the original post to point to the correct URL...


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## krisskis (Mar 1, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> I just can't get that zipper line down. Plus Hunter has no intermediate bumps to practice on. Belleayre on the other hand might be the trick, the whole place is bumped up. I've come to the conclusion that to be a really good eastern skier you have to be good in the bumps. This will be my goal.



Hey KingSlug...we were doing a fairly good job at Belleayre on sunday..well, you were...as for me and the son..well you know...i had jello legs after a couple bump runs...you know i need the practice.
For all you KZ people on here..< you all know me from there>..just wanted to let you know that KingSlug is married to my sister...hes a great guy and im glad to see y'all had a great time at Hunter on monday. He and my sister took my son up to Hunter last week and took him all over the west side...he loves skiing with them as he thinks i am too tame for him.
My son and i were attempting the bumps with him on suday at beleayre...i just cant get it...i guess the bumps arent for me.


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## kingslug (Mar 1, 2006)

I think Hunter should take a look at Belleayre's intermediate bump runs. It's a great place to practice without taking a slide for life. The top section is another story. Very steep, huge bumps, icy as hell but short. I wait for spring to hit those. I'm going to practice my short turns at Whiteface on Sun. and Mon. I think I got the downhill method down pretty well. It's hard to translate Western Mogul skiing technique to out here. The are spread out and much softer than our eastern hardpack ones. Glen Plake said it best, "if you want to find the best skiers on the mountain, you may want to look in the bumps". Very true.


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## dipiro (Mar 1, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> It's so gratifying to see this conversation branching out and so many replying and sharing their bump experiences. The word is spreading.... I hope Dan sees this.



I see it, JIMG, and I, too, am psyched about it. Was going to answer some questions posed, then someone did it for me! The conversation has started for real.

GREG, who is the ripping bump skier in your new photo?

KINGSLUG and KRISSKIS, I hope you'll consider buying a copy of my book. There's some stuff in there that might help you.

ANYONE WHO'S INTERESTED, the following is a mogul book update that I sent out to the folks on my book mail list. It applies to many of you, too:

Skiing friends and colleagues,
Many thanks to those of you who've bought a copy of my new book, Everything the Instructors Never Told You about Mogul Skiing. And a special thanks to all of you ski school directors who've bought multiple copies to share among your staff members. I'm grateful for your openmindedness and willingness to venture outside the instructing establishment's traditional model of skiing. For all sorts of reasons (pedagogical, political, organizational), this is not an easy thing to do, I know, but you've done it. I hope the book has rewarded you by helping to make your staffers better mogul skiers and better mogul-skiing instructors. 

I also hope the book has convinced you that one must know the techniques of the competitive mogul skier, not just the alpine racer, in order to ski moguls well and teach others to ski moguls well. By the way, SKI Magazine instructional writer Stu Campbell, who read and liked my book ("It is most excellent... you make a compelling case for recognizing the technique tweaks necessary to become a great mogul skier. Super job.") tells me he has touched upon the techniques of the mogul competitor in his March "Turning Points" column. Stu tells me he even recommended my book in his original column manuscript, but that the recommendation was edited out. (Not hard to imagine why Stu's conservative, Time-Warner-employed editors would want to keep the title of my book from SKI's pages.) I'm thrilled to receive Stu's buy-in. To the extent that it describes the techniques of the mogul competitor, his March column could mark a turning point in the way mogul skiing is described and taught to the skiing masses. Be sure to look for Stu's column in SKI.

Since November, I've been seeing all sorts of evidence of strong book sales, but I've only recently received my official sales report for the fall and early-winter quarter. I'm thrilled to tell you that sales during this period were far higher than I'd thought. As we're promoting the book with just a modest advertising budget, many of the book's sales are being generated by word of mouth: skiers are finding the book accessible and useful, and they're recommending it to their friends. "Everything" has a spotless, five-star reader-rating on Amazon.com, and is ranked, as I write this, eleventh, among the nearly 1,000 skiing-related books on Amazon.

(To see Amazon's long-term sales averages, do a book word search on "skiing," sort the results by "Bestselling," then scroll down.)

I hope that those of you who've not yet read my book will give it a try. You can easily order a copy through www.LearnMoguls.com, www.Amazon.com, www.bn.com, or your local bookstore (ISBN: 1-4208-6159-X).

To read more about my mogul skiing and mogul-skiing instruction ideas, visit www.mogulskiing.blogspot.com and explore the archives. (The main articles are located in the oldest archives.)

Best regards!

Dan DiPiro


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## kingslug (Mar 1, 2006)

I bought the book and took it with me to Vail. Skie a lot of bumps there but It's a bit easier with their conditions. The length of those runs is killer though. They never end. We'll see how I do at Whiteface. Hopefully they have some less steep runs to practice on.


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## Greg (Mar 1, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> GREG, who is the ripping bump skier in your new photo?


Hey Dan - thanks for the kind words. It means a lot, especially coming from you! Fellow AZer, Catul took that with his rad digital SLR one night while at Sundown. Here's a larger version:







It's the result of (1) low-angle bumps, (2) Catul's rapid-fire shutter which allowed him to select the best shot of the run, and (3) alotta luck to have some decent form at that particular second!


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## 2knees (Mar 1, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Stu tells me he even recommended my book in his original column manuscript, but that the recommendation was edited out. (Not hard to imagine why Stu's conservative, Time-Warner-employed editors would want to keep the title of my book from SKI's pages.)



Its their stodgy approach to ski journalism that has kept me from reading an issue of SKI for at least a decade.  Your book is excellent.  I only wish i had purchased it before i bought new skis.  You comment on the disadvantages of too much sidecut has unfortunately come very true for myself.  My tips and tails are constantly on top of each other as i tend to ski bumps with my boots locked together.


----------



## dipiro (Mar 2, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Hey Dan - thanks for the kind words. It means a lot, especially coming from you! Fellow AZer, Catul took that with his rad digital SLR one night while at Sundown.... It's the result of (1) low-angle bumps, (2) Catul's rapid-fire shutter which allowed him to select the best shot of the run, and (3) alotta luck to have some decent form at that particular second!



Feet and knees together in a nice, tight mogul skier's stance. Good absorption with the legs. Shoulders square to the hill. You're rippin' it.

-dd


----------



## dipiro (Mar 2, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> I bought the book and took it with me to Vail. Skie a lot of bumps there but It's a bit easier with their conditions. The length of those runs is killer though. They never end. We'll see how I do at Whiteface. Hopefully they have some less steep runs to practice on.



Yeah, Vail's Prima and Pronto... they feel like they're miles long, don't they?
-dd


----------



## dipiro (Mar 2, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> Your book is excellent.  I only wish i had purchased it before i bought new skis.  You comment on the disadvantages of too much sidecut has unfortunately come very true for myself.  My tips and tails are constantly on top of each other as i tend to ski bumps with my boots locked together.



Thanks, 2knees. Glad you think the book is good. Have you checked ebay for inexpensive bump skis?


----------



## Greg (Mar 2, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Feet and knees together in a nice, tight mogul skier's stance. Good absorption with the legs. Shoulders square to the hill. You're rippin' it.
> 
> -dd


Thanks. Just wish I could ski like that more consistently. Getting there and the tips in your book certainly help!



			
				dipiro said:
			
		

> Skiing friends and colleagues,
> Many thanks to those of you who've bought a copy of my new book, Everything the Instructors Never Told You about Mogul Skiing. And a special thanks to all of you ski school directors who've bought multiple copies to share among your staff members. I'm grateful for your openmindedness and willingness to venture outside the instructing establishment's traditional model of skiing. For all sorts of reasons (pedagogical, political, organizational), this is not an easy thing to do, I know, but you've done it. I hope the book has rewarded you by helping to make your staffers better mogul skiers and better mogul-skiing instructors.
> 
> I also hope the book has convinced you that one must know the techniques of the competitive mogul skier, not just the alpine racer, in order to ski moguls well and teach others to ski moguls well. By the way, SKI Magazine instructional writer Stu Campbell, who read and liked my book ("It is most excellent... you make a compelling case for recognizing the technique tweaks necessary to become a great mogul skier. Super job.") tells me he has touched upon the techniques of the mogul competitor in his March "Turning Points" column. Stu tells me he even recommended my book in his original column manuscript, but that the recommendation was edited out. (Not hard to imagine why Stu's conservative, Time-Warner-employed editors would want to keep the title of my book from SKI's pages.) I'm thrilled to receive Stu's buy-in. To the extent that it describes the techniques of the mogul competitor, his March column could mark a turning point in the way mogul skiing is described and taught to the skiing masses. Be sure to look for Stu's column in SKI.
> ...


Great to hear your book is successful. I hope that we here at AlpineZone played some small part in its success!
:beer:


----------



## dipiro (Mar 6, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Great to hear your book is successful. I hope that we here at AlpineZone played some small part in its success!
> :beer:



The AZ news page and forum has certainly told a lot of people about my book!
-dd


----------



## 2knees (Mar 6, 2006)

still fighting with my hands.  I'm letting my right arm in particular swing too far back.  I keep re-reading that section of the book in hopes i can burn it into my memory.


----------



## dipiro (Mar 7, 2006)

2knees said:
			
		

> still fighting with my hands.  I'm letting my right arm in particular swing too far back.  I keep re-reading that section of the book in hopes i can burn it into my memory.



Be sure to practice hand-position and poling on the flats, 2knees. It's easier to "burn in" that muscle memory while skiing groomers, and to then take those improvements into the bumps. Have fun.

-Dan


----------



## Greg (Apr 13, 2006)

"Bump" 

Any other reviews on Dan's book?


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 13, 2006)

i read it recently.  not going to post a full review (i have tentative plans to re-read and post a full and proper review on my site this summer though) but in a nutshell, it is a great book and fills an important void in skiing literature.  the extension and absorption section is invaluable, same with the hopping technique which is a technique i often under utilize despite knowing its effectiveness.  the focus on mogul skiing is to the exclusion of all other styles of skiing, which works for the book but limits its scope for skiers looking for a 'how to become an expert skier' but this book fills in the gaps nicely where other books likely fall short.  dan takes a few shots at the PSIA, iirc.  i hope PSIA will revise their approach to incorporate these techniques but the bitterness can be felt.  the book could have done without one or two shots at racers and their technique and comparisons between the two.  obviously it is a different technique, i recall one or two eye rollers though.  thumbs up and highly recommended to those looking to work on skiing bumps better.


----------



## Marc (Apr 13, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i read it recently.  not going to post a full review (i have tentative plans to re-read and post a full and proper review on my site this summer though) but in a nutshell, it is a great book and fills an important void in skiing literature.  the extension and absorption section is invaluable, same with the hopping technique which is a technique i often under utilize despite knowing its effectiveness.  the focus on mogul skiing is to the exclusion of all other styles of skiing, which works for the book but limits its scope for skiers looking for a 'how to become an expert skier' but this book fills in the gaps nicely where other books likely fall short.  dan takes a few shots at the PSIA, iirc.  i hope PSIA will revise their approach to incorporate these techniques but the bitterness can be felt.  the book could have done without one or two shots at racers and their technique and comparisons between the two.  obviously it is a different technique, i recall one or two eye rollers though.  thumbs up and highly recommended to those looking to work on skiing bumps better.




Just like you racers to get all upity like that.  Buncha sallies.


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 13, 2006)

that is ex-racer to you, bud  you cycle freak :lol:


----------



## Greg (Apr 14, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i read it recently.  not going to post a full review (i have tentative plans to re-read and post a full and proper review on my site this summer though) but in a nutshell, it is a great book and fills an important void in skiing literature.  the extension and absorption section is invaluable, same with the hopping technique which is a technique i often under utilize despite knowing its effectiveness.  the focus on mogul skiing is to the exclusion of all other styles of skiing, which works for the book but limits its scope for skiers looking for a 'how to become an expert skier' but this book fills in the gaps nicely where other books likely fall short.  dan takes a few shots at the PSIA, iirc.  i hope PSIA will revise their approach to incorporate these techniques but the bitterness can be felt.  the book could have done without one or two shots at racers and their technique and comparisons between the two.  obviously it is a different technique, i recall one or two eye rollers though.  thumbs up and highly recommended to those looking to work on skiing bumps better.


Very cool. Glad you picked up a few tips from it, Steve. I figured you would after we talked briefly about it at Loon. Looking forward to your full review.


----------



## Charlie Schuessler (Apr 14, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> "Bump"
> 
> Any other reviews on Dan's book?


I read it earlier in the season and found it is very well written and completely comprehensible.  Without a doubt it verified what I was thinking about while skiing bumps (but the body is/was not always following directions).

One thing I need to put into practice is when I’m heading to a bump field, start the "bump-skiing-process" before getting there, not three bumps into it after making GS turns for two hours…


----------



## Greg (Apr 20, 2006)

Dan is another good rep candidate.


----------



## Greg (Apr 27, 2006)

Just saw this thread over on Epic:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=39753

Wow. Some of those guys were pretty hard on you, Dan. The debate over the book title was enteratining though. I think you handled yourself well. Seems like some big egos over there... :roll:


----------



## JimG. (Apr 27, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Just saw this thread over on Epic:
> 
> http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=39753
> 
> Wow. Some of those guys were pretty hard on you, Dan. The debate over the book title was enteratining though. I think you handled yourself well. Seems like some big egos over there... :roll:



One big ego, that Rusty guy. He zeroed in on the title and took personal offense. 

Dan didn't say that ALL instructors are poor at teaching bumps, just most of them. He might be a great bump skier/teacher, but I'm always suspicious of folks who zero in on a statement and make it a mantra. In ways, it's pitiful...most of the posts agree with Dan and alot talk about bad bump lessons they've gotten. And this guy just takes all of that personally too.

My personal favorite post was about how that site is responsible for the book's sales and how Dan might be "using" them to sell it. Lame!


----------



## bvibert (Apr 27, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Just saw this thread over on Epic:
> 
> http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=39753
> 
> Wow. Some of those guys were pretty hard on you, Dan. The debate over the book title was enteratining though. I think you handled yourself well. Seems like some big egos over there... :roll:


I haven't read the thread yet, but a lot the folks over at Epic seem to be pretty big on 'perfect turns' (carving) and the PSIA methods.  So I'm not too surprised that Dan and his book took a beating.


----------



## JimG. (Apr 27, 2006)

bvibert said:
			
		

> I haven't read the thread yet, but a lot the folks over at Epic seem to be pretty big on 'perfect turns' (carving) and the PSIA methods.  So I'm not too surprised that Dan and his book took a beating.



Read the thread...I wouldn't call that "Dan taking a beating".

I call that "one guy (Rusty) pissing into the wind".


----------



## bvibert (Apr 27, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Read the thread...I wouldn't call that "Dan taking a beating".
> 
> I call that "one guy (Rusty) pissing into the wind".


I just read most of it, you're right.  I retract my statement, it seemed the like most people loved the book, which is also not surprising.  Dan did a great job defending his position I thought too.

That'll teach me to make statements without reading the facts first...


----------



## Greg (Apr 27, 2006)

There were a couple other posters that I think immediately put Dan on the defensive, but I think their quest for claification on the title was not malicious. Rusty on the otherhand...


----------



## JimG. (Apr 27, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> There were a couple other posters that I think immediately put Dan on the defensive, but I think their quest for claification on the title was not malicious. Rusty on the otherhand...



Yup; how does the old saying go, "never judge a book by its' cover"?
Rusty got locked in on the cover and won't let go...makes me wonder if he ever even read the book. And that kind of disqualifies anything he might say about it in my mind.

Now if he had said, "the title really pissed me off, but I read the book and it says alot of good stuff" instead of trumpeting his own skills, I'd feel differently.


----------



## SkiDork (Apr 27, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Yup; how does to old saying go, "never judge a book by its' cover"?
> Rusty got locked in on the cover and won't let go...makes me wonder if he ever even read the book. And that kind of disqualifies anything he might say about it in my mind.
> 
> Now if he had said, "the title really pissed me off, but I read the book and it says alot of good stuff" instead of trumpeting his own skills, I'd feel differently.



People who trumpet their own skills usually suck...


----------



## bvibert (Apr 27, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Yup; how does the old saying go, "never judge a book by its' cover"?
> Rusty got locked in on the cover and won't let go...makes me wonder if he ever even read the book. And that kind of disqualifies anything he might say about it in my mind.
> 
> Now if he had said, "the title really pissed me off, but I read the book and it says alot of good stuff" instead of trumpeting his own skills, I'd feel differently.


I didn't read the whole thread, but I read most of Rusty's posts.  It seemed to me that he never read the book and just took issue with the title and what was said in the thread.


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 27, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Just saw this thread over on Epic:
> 
> http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=39753
> 
> Wow. Some of those guys were pretty hard on you, Dan. The debate over the book title was enteratining though. I think you handled yourself well. Seems like some big egos over there... :roll:


epic has a lot of PSIA certified.  dan definitely holds no punches when it comes to slamming that organization...


----------



## JimG. (Apr 27, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> epic has a lot of PSIA certified.  dan definitely holds no punches when it comes to slamming that organization...



Since I've met Dan and am also PSIA certified, I feel comfortable commenting here...

Dan is being kind to PSIA. Very kind. I'd hate to see what would be said if Dan held no punches. I know because I feel the same way about PSIA. Very insular organization, not open minded regarding anything outside the PSIA box. 

I love ski teaching and I'm really good at it...but working for a PSIA ski school was crushing the joy out of it. So now I work for myself, coaching my kids and friends who want to learn. I've never had a student who failed skiing.

If Dan reads this, his comment will be "gee, Jim is being awfully kind". I am. 

And as Forrest Gump says,"that's about all I have to say about that".


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## Greg (May 12, 2006)

Bump. Any other reviews?


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## dipiro (Jul 22, 2006)

Hello Alpine-Zoners,

I just posted a mogul-skier summer fitness piece on my blog ( www.mogulskiing.blogspot.com  ), and thought I'd post it here, too, to get your thoughts. Hope everyone's having a great summer! Here's the piece:

Bump Skier Fitness: Get Light for the Moguls 

Chances are, the single best thing you can do for your mogul skiing this summer, fitness-wise, is to lose extra weight, to get light for the moguls.

A lot of skiers spend a lot of time thinking and talking about skiing-specific exercises, the latest conditioning techniques of world-class skiers, the newest gym gadgets or machines that are supposed to condition skiing muscles, and so forth. For skiers who are already in world-class shape, these things might provide a conditioning edge. For most recreational skiers, though, this stuff is just a silly distraction.

The average recreational skier carries extra weight. (I know I’ve carried extra pounds, at various times!) How many pounds could you stand to lose this summer? Ten? Twenty? Thirty?

Think about how this extra weight affects your skiing. If you said “ten pounds,” pick up a ten pound dumbbell and imagine skiing around all day with that much weight in a backpack. Are you 20 pounds overweight? Imagine carrying around two dumbbells then. It's a lot of weight to carry, isn't it?

Now imagine carrying, supporting, that much extra weight, with your legs, with your knees, through every mogul absorption, for a full day of skiing. The results? Greater fatigue; more wear on your knees, hips and back; slower reaction times; and a greater chance of injury.

If you’re carrying extra weight, don’t waste time worrying about World Cup workouts or new gym toys. Set a simple, straightforward conditioning goal for yourself this summer: lose the extra pounds, however you can do it. Get light for the bumps! You’ll ski better, and your body will thank you this winter with fewer aches and pains at the end of each ski day.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Jul 22, 2006)

dipiro said:
			
		

> Hello Alpine-Zoners,
> 
> I just posted a mogul-skier summer fitness piece on my blog ( www.mogulskiing.blogspot.com  ), and thought I'd post it here, too, to get your thoughts. .



My thought is it's great advice. Keep it simple man.


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## Marc (Jul 22, 2006)

Balls, I really wish it was winter.


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## riverc0il (Jul 22, 2006)

good advice, it is really a good overall advice for any sport or physical recreation and any aspect of skiing, bumps or not. eatting right and daily exercise certainly help any activity in which you place physical demands on your body. cheers for the reminder that ski season really doesn't have an off season, there are just times when there is no snow on the ground and other activities can be pursued to keep fit for when the snow flies.

i have generally maintained that a daily running program is the best way to take off the extra pounds. that doesn't mean i currently follow such a program :roll: also, it helps to position your means around your work out so that your meal takes place when you are least hungry. for me, that means eat after running which also puts energy back into the body. i generally eat a lot less after a work out, and i generally eat better because you don't want to ruin your efforts by tanking up on junk food. it really has to be a systematic lifestyle approach, you can't just get by lifting weights two or three times a week.

now, i should take my own advice. it has been three years since i had a daily running program! and it snows... oops, i mean shows. :lol:


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## jack97 (Jul 22, 2006)

Definitely agree, I use short term goals in my fitness program. In the bigger picture, it motivates me since it helps me in the bumps and overall skiing. I use a stepper because it works my quads and burns off the fat. The key point for me was to set realizable goals to prevent fatigue and get myself to the point where I need to do my daily fitness routine, otherwise I feel lousy.  

I lost 20 lbs over a period of 2-3 years; I’ve been steady at my weight for 2 years. Now, I can last longer on mountain. I don’t feel as sluggish in the bumps and ungroom terrain.


----------



## bvibert (Jul 22, 2006)

Excellent!  I'm already well on the way with that fitness plan.  I've lost 30 pounds since the end of ski season already and I'll loose even more before ski season starts again. 

I've also been doing quite a bit of MTBing to help with my overall condition.

I can't wait to give the bumps a shot again this winter.


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## SkiDork (Jul 23, 2006)

Brilliant!


----------



## ALLSKIING (Jul 23, 2006)

bvibert said:
			
		

> Excellent!  I'm already well on the way with that fitness plan.  I've lost 30 pounds since the end of ski season already and I'll loose even more before ski season starts again.
> 
> I've also been doing quite a bit of MTBing to help with my overall condition.
> 
> I can't wait to give the bumps a shot again this winter.


Congrats Brian!!! You should see a huge difference in your stamina alone.


----------



## AHM (Jul 24, 2006)

*Think about this*



			
				Marc said:
			
		

> Hey Dan, without sounding like I'm trying to coax any freebies out of you, because I do plan on picking up a copy of your book...
> 
> What do you look for in a good mogul ski?  I mean in terms of length, sidecut waist, weight, bindings, construction, etc. etc.
> 
> ...




There are really no skis that work better in bumps than anything else.  It is the skier.  Don't buy skis for a specific type of skiing unless you really primarily do that type.  I ski a rossi XXX as my primary ski (185).  I ski this ski everywhere.  It is a great bump ski, woods ski, groomer ski, western ski.  This is my primary eastern ski (I ski the east 30 days a season).  So don't get caught up in the ski

Next, to develop bump technique start in the spring. It is soft, your legs should be in shape and the bumps will not throw you like Jan/Feb bumps do to skiers not used to bump skiing (or not proficient).

I have not read Dan's book, but some of the basic things talked about are key.  Be in good shape, start on flat bumpers, work on the groomers.

For groomer work, you should be able to ski the groomer with varying radius turns at a drop of a hat.  You should be able to move in between GS and SL turns, as well as intermediate radius turns all in the same groomer.  Learn to work the turns and the rhythm to really understand how the ski works and to build leg strength.  You should ski the groomers non-stop, this will build the leg strength necessary to bump ski.

For early season work outs, the cycling should be doing the job.  I ride 70 - 80 days a season, off road and that works just fine, along with weight training in the gym (~ 1.5 days/week year round average) and a bunch of fall/early winter hiking.  Knock back the verts hiking early season.  I try for 3000 verts once a week once Aug/Sept/Oct/Nov hike.  SOunds like a lot but it isn't, and that is an average.  Also, add some two-a-days.  Go MTB for about 3 hours, then hike the ski area for the end of the day........then go to the pub as you deserve it.

Now for a couple mogul hints.  The sport is all in the hands, keep the hands up and the skis will be under control because you will be centered and not back.  Back is the kiss of death, but when it happens, simply punch both hands forward hard, this will bring you back to properly weight the skis and keeping pressure on the boot tongues.  Boot tongue pressure is key, always feel the shins. Torso facing down the hill at all times, shoulders square to the run.

Next, don't keep the boots too tight on the upper cuff.  I actually do not use the upper buckle and simply control stiffness and resistance via the power strap.  This approach has helped a bunch.  One such "client" regularly finishes in the top 10 in Western US extreme comps, so careful how stiff you make the upper cuff.  The lower must fit tight and there should be zero slop.  The idea here is that when the foot/ankle move the ski moves.  Too much upper cuff and the ski begins to react a bit too fast for most and moves when the lower leg moves and not the foot.

Look way down the hill, the bumps you are in should have been thought about a half dozen turns back or so.  Also, visuallize the line from the start.  Do not get totally extended (straight up), stay compact and more or less in the cat position so you are ready to react.

Once you start to get it, start going a whole lot faster.  Speed is very helpful and will let you start nicking the tops and staying out of the icy troughs.  Begin to view the bumps by looking at the front sides and shooting to hit the inner front side between bumps, about 3/4 of the way up the bump.  Just let the ski deflect off the bump and suck up the knees virtually to the chest to deal with any shock.  Change position in the air, after deflecting off the bump.  Also, keep the poles somewhat short.

Finally, since you appear to be in solid shape, I wonder about the core.  Do a ton of core exercises, you should be able to hang from a bar and crank thru 20 - 40 leg lifts (legs straight out like an L seat).  Good skiers have strong cores, work the core.  AHM--I stacked wood all yesterday afternoon (after 90 min on the MTB)...........winter can't be far away.-


----------



## bvibert (Jul 24, 2006)

ALLSKIING said:
			
		

> Congrats Brian!!! You should see a huge difference in your stamina alone.


Thanks!  I'm really looking foward to skiing this season with less excess 'baggage'.


----------



## Greg (Jul 24, 2006)

bvibert said:
			
		

> Excellent!  I'm already well on the way with that fitness plan.  I've lost 30 pounds since the end of ski season already and I'll loose even more before ski season starts again.
> 
> I've also been doing quite a bit of MTBing to help with my overall condition.
> 
> I can't wait to give the bumps a shot again this winter.


That's great, B! See you out on Nor'easter then this season! 

I'm very lucky to have a metabolism where I really have to work to _gain _weight, not lose it.


----------



## JimG. (Jul 25, 2006)

OK, how does Dan know I gain about 10-15 pounds every Spring after skiing ends?

I take May/June "off" from conditioning and make due with heavy yardwork to stay in shape. Starting in July, I begin to think about ski conditioning. I've lost 5 lbs since July 1.
I'll be back down to 185-190 lbs by the end of September.

Somebody mentioned a strong core as the key to good skiing...that's right on. I do 500 crunches of various types every day starting July 1 in addition to biking, hiking, stretching, and selected weight routines.


----------



## JimG. (Jul 25, 2006)

AHM said:
			
		

> I have not read Dan's book, but some of the basic things talked about are key.



You should...good stuff. The bumper's bible.


----------



## jack97 (Jul 25, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> I do 500 crunches of various types every day starting July 1 in addition to biking, hiking, stretching, and selected weight routines.



500   :-o            

I believe in core excercises also but 500, what type of crunches do you do?


----------



## JimG. (Jul 25, 2006)

jack97 said:
			
		

> 500   :-o
> 
> I believe in core excercises also but 500, what type of crunches do you do?



I use a 75cm exercise ball and do quite a variety:

100 with the ball in the small of my back, hands on my neck.
100 with the ball between my shoulder blades.
100 with my left side on the ball, work the right side obliques.
100 with my right side on the ball, work the left obliques.
100 with my back on the floor, legs up on the ball near my calf muscles.

I start with 50 of each, move up to 75 of each after a month, then go to 100 of each in early September. 

I just re-read my original post and realize I wrote I start with 100 of each in July...in my dreams!


----------



## Greg (Sep 7, 2006)

Great to hear Dan's book is doing so well:

http://news.alpinezone.com/9918/

I hope that we've in some small way helped contribute to its success.


----------



## andyzee (Sep 7, 2006)

Greg said:


> Great to hear Dan's book is doing so well:
> 
> http://news.alpinezone.com/9918/
> 
> I hope that we've in some small way helped contribute to its success.


 
That's great, Dan is one hell of a bump skier and an even better person, I wish him the best. Any idea of how many copies have been sold?


----------



## bvibert (Sep 7, 2006)

I need to find my copy for a refresher before the season starts...


----------



## Marc (Sep 7, 2006)

I like big bumps and ah can not lie- you other bumpers can't deny


----------



## BeanoNYC (Dec 26, 2006)

Well deserved bump here.  

I finally got to re-reading this book.  It's a great read and I'm looking forward to putting Dan's theories into practice...especially the absorption and extension, which I struggle with.  I still can't figure out, however, where the ideal place to turn and pole on a bump is.  I realize it's a silly question, but why practice my walking skills when my crawling skills still suck.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 25, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I need to find my copy for a refresher before the season starts...



My wife found my copy for me yesterday when she was trying to clean up some of my crap.  I'm pumped, just in time for the new bumps at Sundown.


----------



## Greg (Jan 25, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I'm pumped, just in time for the new bumps at Sundown.



Indeed. Time for a re-read, methinks...


----------



## bvibert (Jan 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> Indeed. Time for a re-read, methinks...



Are you trying to say I suck, and could use all the help I can get??




...Cause I already know, thanks for that though...


----------



## Greg (Jan 25, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Are you trying to say I suck, and could use all the help I can get??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I meant for me... Get over the martyr routine. You know you're already full of mad steeze... :roll:


----------



## jack97 (Jan 25, 2007)

Here's something to ponder. Although I agree that thinking too much on the slopes can be hazardous to your health, sometimes its good to keep some things in the back of your mind. 

I think one of many advices out there is that absorbtion and extension controlls speed by relying on friction using snow contact or using the uphill side to slow you down.  Though its good advice, it's part of the story according to the physics. I mentioned a book, Physic of Skiing by Lind over here and at Epic. It can be a tough and boring read, so I just condensed the essentials on the pic below. Basically by moving your center of mass (CM) away from the rotation centers, you will decrease speed. Using Lind's example, say the rotational center is 10 to 15 feet away from the CM, then the reduction in speed is significant when you move the CM by a couple of feet. Note how each absorbtion and extension moves the CM away from the centers. I trust the physics, but I don't trust my body to execute this yet.  










see the rotational centers on photo montage below.


----------



## Marc (Jan 25, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Here's something to ponder. Although I agree that thinking too much on the slopes can be hazardous to your health, sometimes its good to keep some things in the back of your mind.
> 
> I think one of many advices out there is that absorbtion and extension controlls speed by relying on friction using snow contact or using the uphill side to slow you down.  Though its good advice, it's part of the story according to the physics. I mentioned a book, Physic of Skiing by Lind over here and at Epic. It can be a tough and boring read, so I just condensed the essentials on the pic below. Basically by moving your center of mass (CM) away from the rotation centers, you will decrease speed. Using Lind's example, say the rotational center is 10 to 15 feet away from the CM, then the reduction in speed is significant when you move the CM by a couple of feet. Note how each absorbtion and extension moves the CM away from the centers. I trust the physics, but I don't trust my body to execute this yet.
> 
> ...



Physics is never boring!

That's very cool.  Very simplified, but I guess you have to do that when you deal with bio-kinetics.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 25, 2007)

meh, physics ain't got nothing on having an "ah huh!" moment when you "know" the physics behind the motion without actually "knowing" the physics. there are all different types of learners, and if you are the type of learner that can learn how to ski moguls by analyzing the physics, more power to you cause that is cool. doesn't work for me though.

i think the physics becomes pretty evident when you are doing something right vs. wrong... you know you are either fighting physics if you are doing it wrong or working with physics if things start to click. i often analyze my skiing from a physics perspective, but only after i have gotten it down and am looking to tweak things. i don't think physics is going to help much if you don't even have the fundamentals down.

fwiw, that montage shows the skier in the moguls in not the best form. holy back seat taking a dump in between A and B! absorption does not mean sit down and take a dump. the forward lean (chest down to the knees!) is also not so hot either. this skier obviously needs to take a physics class  from_the_NEK took a video of me skiing some bumps at jay last month, i'll post it in a few...


----------



## Greg (Jan 25, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Here's something to ponder. Although I agree that thinking too much on the slopes can be hazardous to your health, sometimes its good to keep some things in the back of your mind.
> 
> I think one of many advices out there is that absorbtion and extension controlls speed by relying on friction using snow contact or using the uphill side to slow you down.  Though its good advice, it's part of the story according to the physics. I mentioned a book, Physic of Skiing by Lind over here and at Epic. It can be a tough and boring read, so I just condensed the essentials on the pic below. Basically by moving your center of mass (CM) away from the rotation centers, you will decrease speed. Using Lind's example, say the rotational center is 10 to 15 feet away from the CM, then the reduction in speed is significant when you move the CM by a couple of feet. Note how each absorbtion and extension moves the CM away from the centers. I trust the physics, but I don't trust my body to execute this yet.





Marc said:


> Physics is never boring!
> 
> That's very cool.  Very simplified, but I guess you have to do that when you deal with bio-kinetics.



You guys are disturbingly smarter than I am. I can analyze technique until I'm blue in the face; most of it goes right out the window when I'm out on the hill. That's the beauty of Dan's book. Easy read and simple drills that lead to the "Aha" moments Steve is talking about. Once these techniques "click", it's all about repition in an effort to acheive consistency.


----------



## andyzee (Jan 25, 2007)

So anyone hear from Dan lately, great guy!


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> from_the_NEK took a video of me skiing some bumps at jay last month, i'll post it in a few...


not as much mogul footage on here as i thought and the bumps are soft, small, and powdery, but what the hay... jay peak 12/30/06.


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## Greg (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> not as much mogul footage on here as i thought and the bumps are soft, small, and powdery, but what the hay... jay peak 12/30/06.


Codec error... :-?


----------



## jack97 (Jan 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> That's the beauty of Dan's book. Easy read and simple drills that lead to the "Aha" moments Steve is talking about. Once these techniques "click", it's all about repition in an effort to acheive consistency.




Woa guys, I 'm not trying to take away from Dan's book. It's a great "how to" book, one of the best imo. I just want to point out why the absorbtion and extension works, the other factors involved. For me, I need to know why before I dive into a situation or an approach. Others don't need to, cool with me.


----------



## jack97 (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> fwiw, that montage shows the skier in the moguls in not the best form. holy back seat taking a dump in between A and B! absorption does not mean sit down and take a dump. the forward lean (chest down to the knees!) is also not so hot either. this skier obviously needs to take a physics class  from_the_NEK took a video of me skiing some bumps at jay last month, i'll post it in a few...



Actually compare this to the montages from Skiers Edge by Lemaster, he looks reasonable. The wc bumpers LeMaster shot all took deep squats, almost sitting back. They recover by bringing his foot underneath for good aft/fore balance, some calls this foot containment others calls this backpedaling. Since a deeper absortion is proportional to lower speed, it makes sense.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 25, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Actually compare this to the montages from Skiers Edge by Lemaster, he looks reasonable. The wc bumpers LeMaster shot all took deep squats, almost sitting back. They recover by bringing his foot underneath for good aft/fore balance, some calls this foot containment others calls this backpedaling. Since a deeper absortion is proportional to lower speed, it makes sense.


why would a WC bumper do something that causes lower speed? :???: for a non-WC bumper such as a recreational skier, the trade off in balance and position seems to great a compromise for lower speeds. contact with the snow including a high degree of rotary motion and twisting from the waist would be a preferable method used to slow down speeds through increased snow contact. you could never convince me that that much back seat and waist bend is a good thing in any skiing circumstance regardless of lie of the slope.


----------



## jack97 (Jan 25, 2007)

Marc said:


> That's very cool.  Very simplified, but I guess you have to do that when you deal with bio-kinetics.




Glad you liked it, Lind made some simplified assumptions, like neglecting the force normal to the surface. It makes the derivation easy and provides less algebraic clutter. As is negligible at higher speeds. I think the point he was trying to show was that you can change your rotational speed by moving the center of mass. He shows this by using a "pumping to increase speed" example; increasing rotational speed by moving the CM closer to the rotational center. Racers leverage this idea and thats why they can increase speed in their turns. I just took Linds approach and turn it upside down to show how you can decrease speed.


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## riverc0il (Jan 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> Codec error... :-?


heh! this is exactly what i was worried about when i decided to use the xvid codec. this should fix it:
http://www.xvid.org/Downloads.15.0.html


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## awf170 (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> heh! this is exactly what i was worried about when i decided to use the xvid codec. this should fix it:
> http://www.xvid.org/Downloads.15.0.html



I have xvid and still doesn't work. :???:


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## jack97 (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> why would a WC bumper do something that causes lower speed? :???:



They may lower their speed to setup for the aerial tricks. Usually, they have to do two, once they get done with it, they fly, hardly use any A&E. 

Don't take the WC bumper montage as literal for recreational use, I'm just pointing out how important A&E is to them and the physics behind it. BTW, I saw the freestyle coach at Okemo, lots A&E. Whether a recreational skiers wants to do that way, it's up to them.


----------



## Marc (Jan 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> You guys are disturbingly smarter than I am. I can analyze technique until I'm blue in the face; most of it goes right out the window when I'm out on the hill. That's the beauty of Dan's book. Easy read and simple drills that lead to the "Aha" moments Steve is talking about. Once these techniques "click", it's all about repition in an effort to acheive consistency.



It's all a conservation thing, Greg.  In this simplified case, if the two centers of rotation are about the same average distance from the skier, than, neglecting ski friction and wind resistance, angular momentum can be conservied.

Think about spinning around in an office chair.  You put your arm out and your rotation rate slows down, you pull your arm in and your rotation rate speeds up.  Why?  Because the angular momentum, which is the linear momentum by the radius of the CM of mass, stays the same unless acted on by outside torque.  So if the radius at which the center of mass stays the increases, to conserve angular momentum, the linear momentum must decrease, which means linear velocity decreases, which means angular velocity (rotational rate) decreases.  It actually depends directly on your moment of inertia, which can be subsituted, more or lass with the center of mass just for an easier visualization here.

The approximation is a rough one for bump skiing, but it's there.  And it's neat to know why.  Points A and B in that photo represent the center of the rotation (the shaft of the office chair).  When you absorb going into a bump, you are moving your center of mass away from A, same as when you put your arms out in the chair.  To conserve your angular momentum, your linear and angular velocity decrease.

Make sense?

:dunce:


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## jack97 (Jan 25, 2007)

Marc said:


> And it's neat to know why.



what I call a geekasm.


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## awf170 (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> heh! this is exactly what i was worried about when i decided to use the xvid codec. this should fix it:
> http://www.xvid.org/Downloads.15.0.html



Nevermind, it worked, it just took a long time.

The skiing was okay, I guess.  You really should watch the way I ski and try to mimic my "technique" you could learn a few things.  The first thing is that you are way to far forward, you boot shouldn't be touching the front of the boot like that.

Here is proper bump skiing technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puu-F4gUOFA

Anyway, nice skiing.



Also Greg.  Get with the program.  Xvid is the best.


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## riverc0il (Jan 25, 2007)

awf170 said:


> Nevermind, it worked, it just took a long time.


hmmmm, try downloading instead of streaming next time? :razz: 

marc sounds like a wookie in that vid clip you posted! "DOOOOOOOOORRRRGH"

you guys need to upgrade to either a better digi cam or better yet a digi camcorder 

i am uploading the 100 Mb mpeg file for a few days for those without the codec. same link as above except replace the .avi with .mpg. should be ready to go in about 15 minutes.


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## awf170 (Jan 25, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> hmmmm, try downloading instead of streaming next time? :razz:



Yeah oop, sorry.  I try downloading first, then clicked out then tried again and didn't notice it was streaming. 



riverc0il said:


> marc sounds like a wookie in that vid clip you posted! "DOOOOOOOOORRRRGH"



:lol:




riverc0il said:


> you guys need to upgrade to either a better digi cam or better yet a digi camcorder



It just didn't focus for some reason.  Probably Marc's fault. I want a digital camcorder but I don't think I have the patient to edit a video.  So I'll come see you when I want to see my faceplants in a better resolution and hear the wookie slightly better.


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## jack97 (Jan 26, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Don't take the WC bumper montage as literal for recreational use, I'm just pointing out how important A&E is to them and the physics behind it. BTW, I saw the freestyle coach at Okemo, lots A&E. Whether a recreational skiers wants to do that way, it's up to them.



Here's some more things to ponder (fwiw). Vid of a wc bumper doing deep squats during absorbtion, he still has good aft/for balance through out the A&E... IMO this vid is almost poetic. Another group of vids from the sunapee freestyle team, the A&E not as pronouce but is is there (the pitch is totally different). The point is A&E (not matter how pronouce it is) is important for zipperline skiing.

click on the finnish team
http://www.mogullogic.com/university.html

click on the video button
http://www.sunapeefreestyle.com/


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## Marc (Jan 26, 2007)

awf170 said:


> Yeah oop, sorry.  I try downloading first, then clicked out then tried again and didn't notice it was streaming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I may or may not be technologically challenged.



And yes, Wookie is my second language.  As soon as I get a capture card, we can use my old camcorder.  Well, we can use it now, but I have no way to upload any vids or even convert them to digital format.


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## JimG. (Jan 26, 2007)

Sniff...sniff...I smell wood burning.

I spent years coaching kids to ski bumps; probably because they are kids, I really simplified my teaching style and relied heavily on demos and then having them imitate what I did. Kids are good "doers", watching and then imitating. Stuff like this would confuse them.

But it's good for adults who have a variety of learning styles. I don't get much from it because I'm a "doer" too...just show me and I'll imitate what you do until I get it. A "feeler" (someone who actually has to be put into the proper position to feel the way they are supposed to ski) wouldn't benefit much either. But a "thinker" (someone who likes explanations and who asks alot of questions) would love this stuff. 

Excuse me now, I have to put out the fire in my hair.


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## 2knees (Jan 26, 2007)

Ski bumps with someone who is better than you.  Watch the lines they choose, how they handle things you have trouble with.  Follow them.  try to stay in the same line.  There is no better way to pick up tips then with the naked eye.  And dont be afraid to use techniques that may go against what you have heard or read.  There is no one way to ski bumps correctly and unless you plan on joining the pro tour, watching competitive bumpers is fun and cool, but dont worry about emulating them.  Ever seen the quads on these dudes?  

Absorb, extend, slam, skid, carve, hop whatever it takes.  Just pick a line and try to stay in it.


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## Grassi21 (Jan 26, 2007)

2knees said:


> Ski bumps with someone who is better than you.  Watch the lines they choose, how they handle things you have trouble with.  Follow them.  try to stay in the same line.  There is no better way to pick up tips then with the naked eye.  And dont be afraid to use techniques that may go against what you have heard or read.  There is no one way to ski bumps correctly and unless you plan on joining the pro tour, watching competitive bumpers is fun and cool, but dont worry about emulating them.  Ever seen the quads on these dudes?
> 
> Absorb, extend, slam, skid, carve, hop whatever it takes.  Just pick a line and try to stay in it.



Then you better bring your A game to Sundown.  I did my first bump runs ever this past Wed. at Sundown.  I would ski the top part of the Exhibition bumps and then watch Greg and bvibert (no offense Paul, but you did look much much better than me by the end of the night) ski their lines.  I'm really pumped to get after those bumps again.


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## jack97 (Jan 26, 2007)

2knees said:


> Ever seen the quads on these dudes?




I'm more interested in seeing the quads of the females. For biomechanical and analytical purposes only, of course.


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## Grassi21 (Jan 26, 2007)

jack97 said:


> I'm more interested in seeing the quads of the females. For biomechanical and analytical purposes only, of course.



I was watching a vid over at Epic about Kristina Koznick training with balance balls for strength/balance stuff.  Not in the nasty female body builder kind of way, but damn is that woman in sick shape.


----------



## jack97 (Jan 26, 2007)

JimG. said:


> But it's good for adults who have a variety of learning styles. I don't get much from it because I'm a "doer" too...just show me and I'll imitate what you do until I get it. A "feeler" (someone who actually has to be put into the proper position to feel the way they are supposed to ski) wouldn't benefit much either. But a "thinker" (someone who likes explanations and who asks alot of questions) would love this stuff.



Sounds like I'm a feeler, position has to feel right. The A&E has always been in the back of my mind, but I don't actually think about the physics when I hit the slopes. 

Only reason why I was curious about the physics was the mis perceptions that has been carried through the years; snow friction, the frontside bump and edging plays a role but manipulation of the CM to control speed has not been talked about. I'm just pointing that out and how important it is.


----------



## SkiDork (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm gonna be gunshy when I finally get back on the snow.  I screwed up my knee a few weeks ago in big bumps at K...  I've aleady been thinking about how I'm gonna handle getting back on the horse...


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## Greg (Jan 26, 2007)

2knees said:


> And dont be afraid to use techniques that may go against what you have heard or read.  There is no one way to ski bumps correctly and unless you plan on joining the pro tour, watching competitive bumpers is fun and cool, but dont worry about emulating them.  Ever seen the quads on these dudes?
> 
> Absorb, extend, slam, skid, carve, hop whatever it takes.  Just pick a line and try to stay in it.



Right on. The goal should be to hold the line, and ski comfortably and in control and with a balanced stance. There were a few runs on Wednesday where I skied very slowly and exagerrated some of my rotary turn technique. A few other runs I let it rip.



Grassi21 said:


> Then you better bring your A game to Sundown.



Pat's Q game is like my A game...


----------



## Paul (Jan 26, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> Then you better bring your A game to Sundown.  I did my first bump runs ever this past Wed. at Sundown.  I would ski the top part of the Exhibition bumps and then watch Greg and bvibert (no offense Paul, but you did look much much better than me by the end of the night) ski their lines.  I'm really pumped to get after those bumps again.



Believe me, no offense taken. It was my first real attempt as well.  However, this word you keep using (better) I do not think it means what you think it means.


----------



## skiadikt (Jan 26, 2007)

SkiDork said:


> I'm gonna be gunshy when I finally get back on the snow.  I screwed up my knee a few weeks ago in big bumps at K...  I've aleady been thinking about how I'm gonna handle getting back on the horse...



dork, i'm sure everyone with an injury goes through that. i think you might remember a few years ago when i tore my calf muscle. took me a long time before i was able to get my confidence back. positive thinking my friend ...


----------



## andyzee (Jan 26, 2007)

skiadikt said:


> dork, i'm sure everyone with an injury goes through that. i think you might remember a few years ago when i tore my calf muscle. took me a long time before i was able to get my confidence back. positive thinking my friend ...


 
I feel sorry for the poor horse.:razz:


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## bvibert (Jan 29, 2007)

Greg said:


> Pat's Q game is like my A game...



Give yourself a little credit Greg, it's probably more like his M game...


----------



## Grassi21 (Jan 29, 2007)

I went to my local Borders at lunch today.  They didn't have the book in stock.  I guess I will have to order it online.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 29, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> I went to my local Borders at lunch today.  They didn't have the book in stock.  I guess I will have to order it online.



I would lend you my copy, but I'm currently re-reading it...


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## 2knees (Jan 29, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> I went to my local Borders at lunch today.  They didn't have the book in stock.  I guess I will have to order it online.




you can have mine.  i'll bring it wednesday, assuming i can get out.


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## Grassi21 (Jan 29, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I would lend you my copy, but I'm currently re-reading it...



Thanks for the offer.  But I'm a book-dork.  I like to own a copy of everything I read.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 29, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> I went to my local Borders at lunch today.  They didn't have the book in stock.  I guess I will have to order it online.


not surprising. iirc, the publisher is "authorhouse" which is a self publishing type vendor that doesn't accept returns from bookstores and is small potatos, not something the average bookseller would be interested in carrying as part of regular stock. mr. dipiro was smart to market this title strongly online and direct people to an online bookseller like amazon.com which can more readily absorb POD and custom jobs. borders or any other bookseller would likely do a special order for the title if they don't carry it in their regular stock.


----------



## Grassi21 (Jan 30, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> not surprising. iirc, the publisher is "authorhouse" which is a self publishing type vendor that doesn't accept returns from bookstores and is small potatos, not something the average bookseller would be interested in carrying as part of regular stock. mr. dipiro was smart to market this title strongly online and direct people to an online bookseller like amazon.com which can more readily absorb POD and custom jobs. borders or any other bookseller would likely do a special order for the title if they don't carry it in their regular stock.



yup.  i just ordered it off of the authorhouse site.


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## SkiDork (Jan 30, 2007)

bumps (shudder....)


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## Grassi21 (Feb 5, 2007)

Just received my copy of Dan's book today.  I sat in my office and read the first 3 chapters.


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## Goblin84 (Feb 6, 2007)

Grassi, the book said to read the first 7 chaps before you do anything!


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## Grassi21 (Feb 6, 2007)

Goblin84 said:


> Grassi, the book said to read the first 7 chaps before you do anything!



lol.  True.  I read chapters 4 - 7 last night.  I'll do a little reread tonight and probably Thursday night if I do hit Hunter on Friday. 

Great book BTW.  It is short, easy to understand, and has good diagrams.


----------



## Goblin84 (Feb 6, 2007)

yeah, it is a solid book.  I have a copy floating around back home somewhere.  Everything is explained very well.  I like how he tells you proper technique and then how/why it actually improves your skiing.  I often feel like that annoying 6 year old that always asks "why?"


----------



## jack97 (Feb 7, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> I'll do a little reread tonight and probably Thursday night if I do hit Hunter on Friday.
> 
> Great book BTW.  It is short, easy to understand, and has good diagrams.



Dan did a great job of getting to the point, explaining how its done and why it works (without burning alot of wood). IMO other ski books retread the same thing over and over again. 

One thing I would add, for the A&E, look for areas to practice this. Over at Bretton Woods, they have trails with water pipes or stream run outs that cut across the trail, my daughter and I was practicing the absorbtion, to her surprise she felt the reduction in speed. Some times riders will have kick outs at the side of the trails to launch themselves, another place to practice.


----------



## Grassi21 (Feb 7, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Dan did a great job of getting to the point, explaining how its done and why it works (without burning alot of wood). IMO other ski books retread the same thing over and over again.
> 
> One thing I would add, for the A&E, look for areas to practice this. Over at Bretton Woods, they have trails with water pipes or stream run outs that cut across the trail, my daughter and I was practicing the absorbtion, to her surprise she felt the reduction in speed. Some times riders will have kick outs at the side of the trails to launch themselves, another place to practice.



I was planning to take some runs through the terrain park when its quiet.  All those little mounds right before the rails seem like a good place to practice absorption.  Not to mention I would like to get comfortable getting little bits of air.  At this point the only air I get is not on purpose.


----------



## JimG. (Feb 7, 2007)

jack97 said:


> One thing I would add, for the A&E, look for areas to practice this. Over at Bretton Woods, they have trails with water pipes or stream run outs that cut across the trail, my daughter and I was practicing the absorbtion, to her surprise she felt the reduction in speed. Some times riders will have kick outs at the side of the trails to launch themselves, another place to practice.



This is why low angle bump fields are so important in the learning process. But alot of the ski population today just seem to not care about bumps and want their corduroy. So low angle bumps are a low priority for most resorts.


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## jack97 (Feb 7, 2007)

JimG. said:


> This is why low angle bump fields are so important in the learning process. But a lot of the ski population today just seem to not care about bumps and want their corduroy. So low angle bumps are a low priority for most resorts.



Yeah, I hear ya. I was very disappointed with Wachusetts when they didn't seed bumps on a milder pitch at the mid mountain trails. Past three season, they seeded only the 10th trail, analogous to learning to swim by being pushed into the lake. That's why I have to give props to Sunapee for seeding moguls on trails with milder pitch. 

On a side note about corduroy, my daughter was getting nervous going over the snow cover water pipes at BW, she was getting to much air and later would skid to a stand still before going over the pipes. Once I saw that, it was a great opportunity to show her absorption. Afterwards, she wasn't intimidated with terrain that had 3d affects.


----------



## Greg (Feb 7, 2007)

JimG. said:


> This is why low angle bump fields are so important in the learning process. But alot of the ski population today just seem to not care about bumps and want their corduroy. So low angle bumps are a low priority for most resorts.



I like to believe this thinking is shifting the other way.Our mighty Sundown is a good example with their seeding of some low-angle bumps to practice on.


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## JimG. (Feb 7, 2007)

Greg said:


> I like to believe this thinking is shifting the other way.Our mighty Sundown is a good example with their seeding of some low-angle bumps to practice on.



There are a few (skiers and resorts) willing to keep the flame burning.

God bless us all!


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## Goblin84 (Feb 7, 2007)

I have been having a hard time finding low angle bumps around.  Of course I have only just recently been getting into skiing the bumps so they could have been there before but i just didnt pay attention


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## jack97 (Feb 28, 2007)

I got too much time on my hands with the broken bone.....

FWIW, seems that Dan has been updating and responding to his blogs. Gives thanks to Greg for his review at Amazon. 

Might be a good opportunity for questions. 

http://www.mogulskiing.blogspot.com/


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## Greg (Jun 25, 2007)

This thread deserves a "bump" from time to time.


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## Sky (Jun 25, 2007)

re: deserving a bump.  Well, it worked on me Greg.  Now I'm considering where I can find those low-speed learning fields.

Could be an interesting SKi season for me coming up.  I've had "drop-off duty" for my daughter (and previously the boys) for what seems like a lifetime.  We are considering an alternative that would eliminate that requirement...which means early starts for mid-week trips.

If this works out...I'll be looking for those low-speed bump fields.  WHos got that quote under their avatar (or wahtever)...If you don't do it this year, you'll be a year older when you finally do it."


----------



## Greg (Jul 5, 2007)

Sky said:


> re: deserving a bump.  Well, it worked on me Greg.  Now I'm considering where I can find those low-speed learning fields.



Not sure where in So. central Mass you are, but any interest in heading south this season? There's been some talk about a few guys up your way hitting Sundown this season...


----------



## Nick (Jan 25, 2012)

Re-bump (no pun intended :lol: )

Now on Kindle for $3.19 (can you tell I was excited)


----------



## Edd (Jan 25, 2012)

Nick said:


> Re-bump (no pun intended :lol: )
> 
> Now on Kindle for $3.19 (can you tell I was excited)



Seriously?  That's worth a download.


----------



## 2sons (Jan 25, 2012)

Nick said:


> Re-bump (no pun intended :lol: )
> 
> Now on Kindle for $3.19 (can you tell I was excited)



iTunes for $3.99


----------



## BenedictGomez (Jan 25, 2012)

Now used in paper for about $11

Stupid newfangled kids and their electronic reading gadgets!


----------



## Nick (Jan 25, 2012)

Yeah not really the best ot read on a actual e-ink Kindle though on account of the pics, but on the web reader or an tablet device it'll work well


----------



## ALLSKIING (Jan 25, 2012)

Edd said:


> Seriously?  That's worth a download.


seriously? It was 3.19...


----------



## Edd (Jan 25, 2012)

ALLSKIING said:


> seriously? It was 3.19...



Yeah.  Sounds cheap to me.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 25, 2012)

Nick said:


> Re-bump (no pun intended :lol: )
> 
> Now on Kindle for $3.19 (can you tell I was excited)



Good job Nick, I grabbed a copy too, this afternoon, although I wasn't thinking about the graphics on my Kindle Keyboard. If I can't see them well enough, then I'll have to try the web reader method.

I never attained a decent grasp of mogul skiing when I was younger so hopefully this will allow me to get up to at least a basic skill level that will allow my 40something legs/knees to safely descend an easier bump run.

Were ya just looking for skiing/kindle books just a week or two ago? Find any other good ones?


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## JimG. (Jan 26, 2012)

You have all spent wisely.

We haven't heard from Dan in ages.


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## emmaurice2 (Mar 9, 2012)

I can't stress enough how helpful the groomed run exercises have been.  I've made more progress in the last few weeks than in the past few years. Yesterday was my first foray into low-angle bumps after doing the exercises, big difference!  Still a long way to go, but it's starting to click.

Best $3.19 I've spent.


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## JimG. (Mar 9, 2012)

emmaurice2 said:


> I can't stress enough how helpful the groomed run exercises have been.  I've made more progress in the last few weeks than in the past few years. Yesterday was my first foray into low-angle bumps after doing the exercises, big difference!  Still a long way to go, but it's starting to click.
> 
> Best $3.19 I've spent.



Glad to see Dan's book is still the gift that gives. One of the best instructional books ever.

I've been spending alot of time keeping my skis glued together this season. Not easy after years of hearing people yell "widen your stance". And it takes a surprising amount of strength to keep them glued together. But it has been clicking big time the last few weeks and for once I'm really happy where my skiing is right now.

Thank you Dan.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 9, 2012)

Greg said:


> I was going to mention this as well. Super easy read. My only comment is it seems to be geared towards the already advanced groomer skier looking to bash the zipperline. However, I do feel a lot of DiPro's techniques could be adapted to more conservative bump skiing.



I take offense to a book being called that! jk. It has always been a generation thing but I am glad someone showed me how to teach this properly. Unfortunately, the instructors that are usually leading instructor clinics are the ones that got their level III certification 10 years ago. The turn plays an intigral role in mogul skiing but it is by no means the only piece or the most important. Teaching when to turn and how to use your poles is very important to first time mogul skiers. It gives them that familiar feeling of control. 

What the author points out very clearly is that instructors generally don't know how to skiers to the next level. They generally can't do this because they were never taught the importance of flex, extension, toe pressure, using the angle of the mogul to control speed, etc.

I highly recommend this book for anyone looking to take their mogul skiing to the next level. I can only hope that a few of these instructors pick it up as well


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## SkiFanE (Mar 9, 2012)

JimG. said:


> Glad to see Dan's book is still the gift that gives. One of the best instructional books ever.
> 
> I've been spending alot of time keeping my skis glued together this season. Not easy after years of hearing people yell "widen your stance". And it takes a surprising amount of strength to keep them glued together. But it has been clicking big time the last few weeks and for once I'm really happy where my skiing is right now.
> 
> Thank you Dan.



Never took the 'widen your stance' advice lol...at least of the thighs.  IMO - concentrate on keeping your thighs tight together rather than your feet.  That will bring your feet together like you're on a platform, but still keeps your feet far enough apart to keep from tripping on your brakes, bindings, etc.  When I feel the bumps are taking control..sometimes if I concentrate on pushing my thighs together my control returns...(or straighten my back and suck in my abs to strengthen my core).  Basically..when I feel I'm out of control there's just a few basics to focus on to get back into control (legs, back/abs, stance/balance).  Or if my back starts really aching I know I'm not using my legs like I should...or vice/versa.


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## JimG. (Mar 9, 2012)

SkiFanE said:


> Never took the 'widen your stance' advice lol...at least of the thighs.  IMO - concentrate on keeping your thighs tight together rather than your feet.  That will bring your feet together like you're on a platform, but still keeps your feet far enough apart to keep from tripping on your brakes, bindings, etc.  When I feel the bumps are taking control..sometimes if I concentrate on pushing my thighs together my control returns...(or straighten my back and suck in my abs to strengthen my core).  Basically..when I feel I'm out of control there's just a few basics to focus on to get back into control (legs, back/abs, stance/balance).  Or if my back starts really aching I know I'm not using my legs like I should...or vice/versa.



Agree about the thighs...when I focus on pressing the insides of my thighs together I find my feet naturally follow, but with enough two footedness to create solid balance and control.


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## jack97 (Mar 9, 2012)

MadMadWorld said:


> I take offense to a book being called that! jk. It has always been a generation thing but I am glad someone showed me how to teach this properly. Unfortunately, the instructors that are usually leading instructor clinics are the ones that got their level III certification 10 years ago. The turn plays an intigral role in mogul skiing but it is by no means the only piece or the most important. Teaching when to turn and how to use your poles is very important to first time mogul skiers. It gives them that familiar feeling of control.



IMO1, the ski instructors back in the days knew how to kill it...... 

IMO2, modern day skis and what is presently emphasized in skiing with them has dumb down the way to ski bumps in general.


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## justjen (Mar 10, 2012)

The book made an immediate difference for me too, though I still have a long way to go.  I'm not sure if it's lack of discipline or just that I'd already been using some of the technique, but I was really bad about doing the groomer drills.  

Thanks for the 'thighs together' tip, SkiFanE.  I will definitely keep that in mind.


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