# It's official, a brand new orange 6 pack bubble at Okemo



## slatham (Jul 16, 2014)

Plan to open mid December.


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## spiderpig (Jul 16, 2014)

Wonder what happened to those plans to replace the Green Ridge Triple with an HSQ?

Slightly higher capacity. 145 chairs on Northstar to 113 chairs. 580 people vs 678 per one rotation.

Wonder how slowly it will have to go on the windiest days with no tree protection up top.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 16, 2014)

I would think if anything they could run the lift faster than the old one during windy conditions due to the much greater weight of the chair.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 16, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I would think if anything they could run the lift faster than the old one during windy conditions due to the much greater weight of the chair.



Don't those bubbles act like a great big sail?


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## spiderpig (Jul 16, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I would think if anything they could run the lift faster than the old one during windy conditions due to the much greater weight of the chair.



Yeah, wouldn't they swing right to left, left to right?


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## drjeff (Jul 16, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> Don't those bubbles act like a great big sail?



With the bubbles down, as they STRONGLY encourage you to do when you load them at Mount Snow in windy conditions, the combo of the rounded shape of the bubbles and their 1400lb unloaded weight has them "flying" through the wind pretty stabily.

I've been on the Bluebird in sustained winds over 30 and in some squalls with gusts over 50, conditions the couldn't safely operate the grand summit express quad in, but the Bluebird will often run in still at full line speed. The sheer mass of a bubble 6 pack chair is your "friend" in the wind, and why I suspect on all but the WINDIEST of days the new lift at Okemo will operate without issue


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## thetrailboss (Jul 16, 2014)

Orange...interesting...so it will probably be like Canyon's bubble:







Poma or Doppelmayr?


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## WoodCore (Jul 16, 2014)

Okemo's bubble will be a Leitner-Poma


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## xlr8r (Jul 16, 2014)

Whatever happened to their residential development below South Face, I thought they were gonna build a lift for that this year.  Does anyone know if the terrain and lift over there is delayed or is that whole residential project in trouble.

I would rather they replace the Green Ridge triple as this will only make the bottleneck around lower arrow worse.  It also would be nice if one of the Base quads was a high speed.  It also seems like a reactionary move on Okemo's part with the Bluebird at Mount Snow and the new Gondola cabins at Stratton.  Good to have some healthy competition in Southern VT.


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## Madroch (Jul 16, 2014)

Mid December-what will they use for November- hadn't been to okemo in 25 years until this November- had a ball lapping the quad in a rainy day... Was planning on returning early season- bagged 40k on my opening day.. Green ridge triple?


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## ss20 (Jul 16, 2014)

I ski Okemo, but I love, ski, and enjoy Mount Snow more.  So when they use this in the press release it kinda makes me pissed...



> *Orange is Hot*
> Okemo’s new six-passenger bubble chair is a truly one-of-a-kind lift in North America. In addition to a plush ride *(think "flying sofa")*, each seat is heated, offering a comfortable ride up the mountain on even the coldest of days. Okemo will offer the only chairlift in the Northeast with heated seats. A new heated storage barn will be constructed alongside the base terminal, and the chairs will be removed nightly from the line, keeping them warm and dry during inclement weather. - See more at:



:angry:


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## ss20 (Jul 16, 2014)

My serious opinion:

This is kinda strange.  Instead of the Jackson Gore Gondola, Green Ridge HSQ, or an upgrade to one of the base area quads, they choose to replace a relatively new HSQ.  And I thought Ragged was bad with delaying their new install.  Okemo's removing a 6,000 foot lift, installing another 6,000 foot lift, and building a barn in 5 months :???:.  Mount Snow started the Bluebird in March and didn't finish till early December.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 16, 2014)

Madroch said:


> Mid December-what will they use for November- hadn't been to okemo in 25 years until this November- had a ball lapping the quad in a rainy day... Was planning on returning early season- bagged 40k on my opening day.. Green ridge triple?



Sachem and Glades peak Quads would be my guess.  I recall some years as a kid where the opening was F-10 Poma to the Sachem Quad and lower World Cup was the route down. That was usually only for a couple days or so until they got Upper World Cup going.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 17, 2014)

ss20 said:


> My serious opinion:
> 
> This is kinda strange.  Instead of the Jackson Gore Gondola, Green Ridge HSQ, or an upgrade to one of the base area quads, they choose to replace a relatively new HSQ.  And I thought Ragged was bad with delaying their new install.  Okemo's removing a 6,000 foot lift, installing another 6,000 foot lift, and building a barn in 5 months :???:.  Mount Snow started the Bluebird in March and didn't finish till early December.



Northstar (and Northeast triple prior) has always been the mountain's work horse lift.  They replaced the Northeast triple after only 8 years of service.  They replaced the Solitude Quad after only 6!  I think the choice to replace Northstar as opposed to Green Ridge is probably for a couple of reasons.  Satisfying the core customers' biggest complaint; the long ass lift lines on Northstar and the popularity of the terrain that it services over Green Ridge.  You've got arguably their best cruising trail off that lift in World Cup, their "race arena" trail in Chief and their primary Park terrain on Nor'easter.   There's probably also a bit of the "keeping up with the Jones's" too as you mention.

I doubt the Jackson Gondola ever happens.  That lift would probably cost %$10M to construct.  I don't think they'd see a significant ROI on such a lift and I really think it would be underutilized.


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## ss20 (Jul 17, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Northstar (and Northeast triple prior) has always been the mountain's work horse lift.  They replaced the Northeast triple after only 8 years of service.  They replaced the Solitude Quad after only 6!  I think the choice to replace Northstar as opposed to Green Ridge is probably for a couple of reasons.  Satisfying the core customers' biggest complaint; the long ass lift lines on Northstar and the popularity of the terrain that it services over Green Ridge.  You've got arguably their best cruising trail off that lift in World Cup, their "race arena" trail in Chief and their primary Park terrain on Nor'easter.   There's probably also a bit of the "keeping up with the Jones's" too as you mention.



Solitude and the summit triple were replaced because ride time could be cut in half with new technology.

I highly doubt lines will significantly decrease.  If people are willing to wait 15 minutes for an uncovered HSQ, they'll gladly wait 25 minutes for a protected ride.  Case in point, Mount Snow.  However, the other lifts on the mountain might see some relief.  I'd imagine this will be very slight since the capacity increase is very little.


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## drjeff (Jul 17, 2014)

ss20 said:


> My serious opinion:
> 
> This is kinda strange.  Instead of the Jackson Gore Gondola, Green Ridge HSQ, or an upgrade to one of the base area quads, they choose to replace a relatively new HSQ.  And I thought Ragged was bad with delaying their new install.  Okemo's removing a 6,000 foot lift, installing another 6,000 foot lift, and building a barn in 5 months :???:.  Mount Snow started the Bluebird in March and didn't finish till early December.



The actual "real" construction time for the Bluebird at Mount Snow was far less than the March to early December time frame you reference.  

Technically did they start the dismantling of the old summit local in March? Yup - but most of that was so they could use the snow still on the ground to make it easier to drag the old lift towers down the mountain. As we're seeing now with Ragged, a lift can be taken down pretty quick.

Mount Snow also had to do a ton of excavating work for the sight of their storage barn, that process took even longer than they expected, since even with drilling test holes to evaluate how much rock they had to blast through to get the site cleared + leveled and graded for the barn, it still ended up being a bigger project than anticipated. If Okemo has a much flatter site in mind for their barn, and/or plans to use more of a prefab/engineered building type for their barn vs. the traditional post and beam construction technique that Mount Snow used, then that will also speed up overall construction time.

The actual Bluebird construction time had the tower footings poured in early to mid July (about this time of year) and the lift had full certification by Thanksgiving - and that included a few weeks of delay issues caused by Hurricane Irene and all the destruction she did to VT when she rolled through.

Technically the Bluebird opened the 1st week in December, but that was only because of a warm November prevented Mount Snow from opening prior to then that season. The lift was ready to go, and myself as well as a bunch of other Mount Snow regulars trudged through the muddy base area the day after Thanksgiving to get a tour of the barn + new lift Thanksgiving weekend that year, in November. The snow just wasn't ready until a week later in December 

The construction time frame for this likely 7-9 million dollar lift, shouldn't be a problem


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## SIKSKIER (Jul 17, 2014)

I think part of the decision to replace that lift was due to wanting to put a high speed lift in the Sunbowl at Sunapee.Kind of replacing 2 lifts for the price of 1 1/2.


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## jaytrem (Jul 17, 2014)

ss20 said:


> I ski Okemo, but I love, ski, and enjoy Mount Snow more. So when they use this in the press release it kinda makes me pissed...
> 
> Okemo’s new six-passenger bubble chair is a truly one-of-a-kind lift in North America



Their statement is correct.  The Bluebird doesn't have heated seats, so it really is one-of-a-kind.  Now if they were trying to get away with saying it's one-of-a-kind due to the different bubble color I would have an issue with that statement.


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## Madroch (Jul 17, 2014)

Cam suggests haul rope gone on the North Star- that or my eyes are gone


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## dlague (Jul 17, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Northstar (and Northeast triple prior) has always been the mountain's work horse lift.  They replaced the Northeast triple after only 8 years of service.  They replaced the Solitude Quad after only 6!  I think the choice to replace Northstar as opposed to Green Ridge is probably for a couple of reasons.  Satisfying the core customers' biggest complaint; the long ass lift lines on Northstar and the popularity of the terrain that it services over Green Ridge.  You've got arguably their best cruising trail off that lift in World Cup, their "race arena" trail in Chief and their primary Park terrain on Nor'easter.   There's probably also a bit of the "keeping up with the Jones's" too as you mention.
> 
> I doubt the Jackson Gondola ever happens.  That lift would probably cost %$10M to construct.  I don't think they'd see a significant ROI on such a lift and I really think it would be underutilized.



Jackson Gore lift is under utilized today - not enough interesting terrains over there!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm in Grand Junction. Maybe I should stop by Poma and ask. 


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## deadheadskier (Jul 17, 2014)

dlague said:


> Jackson Gore lift is under utilized today - not enough interesting terrains over there!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone



The previously proposed Jackson Gore gondola he is referencing was to go from the Jackson Gore base to Okemo's summit.  So, essentially a transfer lift and a REALLY expensive transfer lift at that.  I get the logic.  It's a pain in the ass to get back to the main mountain from Jackson Gore requiring multiple lift rides and traverses.  I just don't see the skier traffic over at Jackson Gore to justify the investment.


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## xwhaler (Jul 17, 2014)

Whenever I ski Okemo JG quad is almost empty....I actually like the terrain over there more than the main mtn


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## jaytrem (Jul 17, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> The previously proposed Jackson Gore gondola he is referencing was to go from the Jackson Gore base to Okemo's summit. So, essentially a transfer lift and a REALLY expensive transfer lift at that. I get the logic. It's a pain in the ass to get back to the main mountain from Jackson Gore requiring multiple lift rides and traverses. I just don't see the skier traffic over at Jackson Gore to justify the investment.



They might be able to justify it with summer operations.  Most of their summer attractions are based in Jackson Gore, and I don't think they currently run any lifts for sightseeing.  I have no clue how much cash a sightseeing gondola would bring in, but the planned installation would be more ideal for that than use during a ski day.


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## ss20 (Jul 17, 2014)

Chairs and haul rope off.  Lot's of activity by the base of the Northstar.  Source: Webcams


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## xlr8r (Jul 17, 2014)

Stratton being clever on their Facebook page with a post title "Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's a new gondola in town" even if it technically is a refurb and not an entirely new lift.  Still good to see rivals poke fun at each other.

The new Stratton cabins have started to arrive as well http://www.stratton.com/the-mountain/gondola-webcam.aspx


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## Newpylong (Jul 18, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> The previously proposed Jackson Gore gondola he is referencing was to go from the Jackson Gore base to Okemo's summit.  So, essentially a transfer lift and a REALLY expensive transfer lift at that.  I get the logic.  It's a pain in the ass to get back to the main mountain from Jackson Gore requiring multiple lift rides and traverses.  I just don't see the skier traffic over at Jackson Gore to justify the investment.



JG Proposed Gondola Liftline: http://skimap.org/data/204/260/1283542654.jpg


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## thetrailboss (Jul 18, 2014)

xlr8r said:


> Stratton being clever on their Facebook page with a post title "Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's a new gondola in town" even if it technically is a refurb and not an entirely new lift.  Still good to see rivals poke fun at each other.
> 
> The new Stratton cabins have started to arrive as well http://www.stratton.com/the-mountain/gondola-webcam.aspx



Good one


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## dlague (Jul 18, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> The previously proposed Jackson Gore gondola he is referencing was to go from the Jackson Gore base to Okemo's summit.  So, essentially a transfer lift and a REALLY expensive transfer lift at that.  I get the logic.  It's a pain in the ass to get back to the main mountain from Jackson Gore requiring multiple lift rides and traverses.  I just don't see the skier traffic over at Jackson Gore to justify the investment.



Technically skiing from the top of the JG side you can make it all the way back to the main lodge without multiple lift rides.  From Sunset Strip you get dumped out onto Mountain road and take that all the way back to the main lodge - it is a pretty boring traverse for the most part but does not require multiple lifts.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 18, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> JG Proposed Gondola Liftline: http://skimap.org/data/204/260/1283542654.jpg



I don't see the proposed gondola line on there.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 18, 2014)

dlague said:


> Technically skiing from the top of the JG side you can make it all the way back to the main lodge without multiple lift rides.  From Sunset Strip you get dumped out onto Mountain road and take that all the way back to the main lodge - it is a pretty boring traverse for the most part but does not require multiple lifts.



I was referring to Jackson Gore base.  It takes two lifts, plus the long traverse you mention to get back to the main mountain from there.  It takes three, including that long traverse to get the main summit and four lifts to get to the top of Glades Peak from JG base.   The gondola was to go from JG base to the main summit.


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## gmcunni (Jul 18, 2014)

from a 2011 alpinezone challenge 


> *steamboat1: *In the original Jackson Gore plans there was a top to bottom gondola envisioned. Are there any plans to install such a lift in the future?
> *Bruce Schmidt:* The plans to install a state-of-the-art gondola at Jackson Gore are still in play. Ski areas across the country have had to delay plans for large improvements, such as new gondolas due to a slowed economy, and Okemo Mountain is not an exception. We intend to move forward with the plans as soon as we can as we are aware that in order to continue to compete as a world-class resort we must provide the highest level of convenience.


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## gmcunni (Jul 18, 2014)

Vermont’s Okemo Mountain Resort is upping the ante on people moves this year, investing in the first-ever six person, heated bubble chair. Capable of moving 1,000 feet per minute, the lift features heated seating pads and a retractable acrylic dome similar to the space ship chairlifts currently flying up Utah’s Canyons Resort. The higher capacity chair should decrease lines and will offer an endless supply of toasty buns—and that’s something we can all support.

from powder.com

http://www.powder.com/stories/news/week-review-july-18-ski-top-danish-power-plant/


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## Smellytele (Jul 18, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> Vermont’s Okemo Mountain Resort is upping the ante on people moves this year, investing in the first-ever six person, heated bubble chair. Capable of moving 1,000 feet per minute, the lift features heated seating pads and a retractable acrylic dome similar to the space ship chairlifts currently flying up Utah’s Canyons Resort. The higher capacity chair should decrease lines and will offer an endless supply of toasty buns—and that’s something we can all support.
> 
> from powder.com
> 
> http://www.powder.com/stories/news/week-review-july-18-ski-top-danish-power-plant/



How long will it take until half the heated seats don't work?


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## Newpylong (Jul 18, 2014)

from_the_NEK said:


> I don't see the proposed gondola line on there.




Connect Jackson Gore to the summit of the main mountain. The line is depicted...


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## dlague (Jul 18, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> How long will it take until half the heated seats don't work?




Probably a while since there is a warranty period I am sure!  Plus they are going to get stored every night.


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## drjeff (Jul 18, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> How long will it take until half the heated seats don't work?



They pretty much all apparently still work at The Canyons orange bubble quad, and that lift is heading on its at least 5th, if not 6th season. Granted Doppelmayr built that one and Leitner is building Okemo's so we'll see....

On an aside, having ridden the orange bubble at the Canyons a few times, and the Bluebird at Mount Snow literally hundreds of times, I'm honestly not sure if heated seats really are needed! It does warm up quite nicely just via radiant light through the bubble on its own


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## skizoo (Jul 18, 2014)

This lift is essentially a 6 million dollar A*S and face warmer. it's going to be loved by the holiday & 5 day a year skier.

Personally, I love being in the snow and cold. But Okemo is not a cold mountain by VT standards nor is it a windy one. This lift will not reduce lines in fact they'll likely increase as it will be a side loader, which means access from one side when you have trails feeding the lift area from both sides. On busy days it's a circus trying to get 4 people on a lift at Okemo now. Combine that with the insatiable need of some to lower the bar before everyone is seated and now X that by 2 with a bubble.

I'm going to hate riding with others as I'm guessing a lot of folks will want the bubble down on what are not really cold days.. and I won't. And I'm guessing there will be a lot more lifties directing people how and when to load so they're going to try and fill most chairs.

I think this is a big waste and the money could have been much better spent getting a lift from the base area with a mid station where Sachem now unloads and then taking it to the top replacing Sachem and Glades. that would actually improve the skiing experience. This lift is 100% fluff and replaces a lift that still had a lot of life left in it.

As a business decision, I can see where they're coming from as this lift will be a huge + for their target market. Those folks will love it. I see nothing beneficial in this move at all.

I live in Ludlow but will probably be using my K pass a lot more this  year especially pre Xmas when it will take 20 mins to get to the top of  Okemo via Sachem and Glades


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## ss20 (Jul 18, 2014)

skizoo said:


> This lift is 100% fluff and replaces a lift that still had a lot of life left in it.



Ding ding ding!  We have a winner! 

There were MANY other ways this money could've been used.  I would have liked a new base lodge more than a new lift...and normally I don't give a damn about any off-mountain infrastructure.


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## Edd (Jul 18, 2014)

xlr8r said:


> Stratton being clever on their Facebook page with a post title "Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's a new gondola in town" even if it technically is a refurb and not an entirely new lift.  Still good to see rivals poke fun at each other.
> 
> The new Stratton cabins have started to arrive as well http://www.stratton.com/the-mountain/gondola-webcam.aspx



That is funny. Personally, I'd rather ride a six pack bubble chair over a gondola any day. Taking the skis off is annoying.


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## Quietman (Jul 18, 2014)

skizoo said:


> This lift is essentially a 6 million dollar A*S and face warmer. it's going to be loved by the holiday & 5 day a year skier.
> 
> I think this is a big waste and the money could have been much better spent getting a lift from the base area with a mid station where Sachem now unloads and then taking it to the top replacing Sachem and Glades. that would actually improve the skiing experience. This lift is 100% fluff and replaces a lift that still had a lot of life left in it.



Looking at just Okemo, I agree. But Sunapee badly needed a H.S. in the Sunbowl, so all that life left on this lift will still be put to good use, and this will allow more lift shuffling at Sunapee so it probably makes good business sense on a "big picture" level for Okemo/Sunapee.


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## WoodCore (Jul 19, 2014)

Wrong brand but some orange bubble love from my home office!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2014)

Has work begun at Sunapee?


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## dlague (Jul 19, 2014)

That would be gar to see without a little hiking since that chair is not visible from the base.  Not sure of Sunapee has any press releases out.


.......


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## buellski (Jul 20, 2014)

dlague said:


> That would be gar to see without a little hiking since that chair is not visible from the base. Not sure of Sunapee has any press releases out.
> 
> 
> .......




http://www.mountsunapee.com/mtsunapeewinter/aboutsunapee/pressroom/releases/2014/14-Sunbowl-Replacement.asp


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2014)

buellski said:


> http://www.mountsunapee.com/mtsunapeewinter/aboutsunapee/pressroom/releases/2014/14-Sunbowl-Replacement.asp



Interesting to note that they have rolled back season pass pricing to the early season rate if you purchase before the end of the month.

One thing that surprises me is that they don't offer a Sunapee only pass.  You have to buy a combined Sunapee and Okemo pass with the cheapest black out price being $719. That's not a bad deal for the two mountains.

However, I think Sunapee competes head to head primarily with Ragged and Gunstock, at least in the local NH market.  Both of those mountains offer passes below $600.  Ragged is $599 now, but I believe it was $569 for the early bird?  Gunstock offers a pass right now for $539.  Both of those are non-blackout.  The Sunapee / Okemo non-black out pass is $929.   

I'm kind of surprised Sunapee doesn't offer a Sunapee only season pass that is priced competitively with Ragged and Gunstock.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 20, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Interesting to note that they have rolled back season pass pricing to the early season rate if you purchase before the end of the month.
> 
> One thing that surprises me is that they don't offer a Sunapee only pass.  You have to buy a combined Sunapee and Okemo pass with the cheapest black out price being $719. That's not a bad deal for the two mountains.
> 
> ...



Except for locals, they don't have to. It's always busy. Why drop the price when you don't have to? 



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## Savemeasammy (Jul 20, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Except for locals, they don't have to. It's always busy. Why drop the price when you don't have to?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Sunapee is 45 minutes from me, but for the money, I definitely wouldn't consider a pass there.  Okemo is not an incentive for me...


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2014)

Well, if it were still State run, surely there'd be a Sunapee only option.  

:lol:


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## steamboat1 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm surprised Cranmore, Bromley & Jimminy Peak don't offer a pass for all three mountains for all pass holders. They are all managed by the same corporation. They do offer a pass good for all three areas for college students already.


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## bobbutts (Jul 20, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Well, if it were still State run, surely there'd be a Sunapee only option.
> 
> :lol:


There should really be a Cannon/Sunapee Pass, we'd probably have that if it were state run too.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2014)

good point and that would be a great pass.  Sunapee for reliability after bad weather, Cannon for it's exceptional terrain during good weather.


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## buellski (Jul 21, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Except for locals, they don't have to. It's always busy. Why drop the price when you don't have to?






Savemeasammy said:


> Sunapee is 45 minutes from me, but for the money, I definitely wouldn't consider a pass there.  Okemo is not an incentive for me...



20 minutes from me, but they're just too expensive now. It would be over $1300 for just my son and me. That's just insane. But like TB said, when you're busy and you have lots of folks with the means to fork over that much money, why drop prices?


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## xwhaler (Jul 21, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm surprised Cranmore, Bromley & Jimminy Peak don't offer a pass for all three mountains for all pass holders. They are all managed by the same corporation. They do offer a pass good for all three areas for college students already.



I know mtns that are owned by the same corporation do like to offer multi mtn passes but this would be an interesting one. Not sure what the market would be? Bromley and Jiminy I suppose could team up as folks in WMASS/SoVT/Albany area could see the value in a combo.
But with Cranmore its really too far away to day trip from the other 2....folks that ski Cranmore are likely to have a place in the MWV and will go for a Cranmore only pass or the White Mtn Super pass or even the BWoods/Cranmore Sun-Fri pass.

Just my $.02


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## thetrailboss (Jul 21, 2014)

buellski said:


> 20 minutes from me, but they're just too expensive now. It would be over $1300 for just my son and me. That's just insane. But like TB said, when you're busy and you have lots of folks with the means to fork over that much money, why drop prices?



Yeah that's exactly their situation. They're making good money with the current volume. Remember ASC cheap passes, in some ways, ruined things because there were too many skiers and riders. 


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## deadheadskier (Jul 21, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> . Remember ASC cheap passes, in some ways, ruined things because there were too many skiers and riders.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I'm not so sure skier visit numbers would back up those claims.   

I don't think Sunday River or Sugarloaf for example were any busier under ASC as they are today; at least not in my experiences.   Perhaps Killington was, but I think their drop off in business had more to due with Powdr's initial mismanagement than getting rid of cheap ski passes.  Also, some of K's busiest years were under Pres Smith, predating ASC.

I'm sure the pass price at Sunapee or anywhere really is mostly based on Gross & Net revenue targets and not the number of skiers on the hill.  I doubt Sunapee ever has had the conversation, "Well, if we drop pass prices, the ski area will become too busy."


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## steamboat1 (Jul 21, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> I know mtns that are owned by the same corporation do like to offer multi mtn passes but this would be an interesting one. Not sure what the market would be? Bromley and Jiminy I suppose could team up as folks in WMASS/SoVT/Albany area could see the value in a combo.
> But with Cranmore its really too far away to day trip from the other 2....folks that ski Cranmore are likely to have a place in the MWV and will go for a Cranmore only pass or the White Mtn Super pass or even the BWoods/Cranmore Sun-Fri pass.
> 
> Just my $.02



ASC All for One pass is one example of a pass that was geographically diverse. I know I skied every mountain offered on that pass many times when I had it & it was because of the pass that I went. A better example of a geographically diverse pass would be Vail's Epic pass, you can even ski Europe with that pass.


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## Edd (Jul 21, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> ASC All for One pass is one example of a pass that was geographically diverse. I know I skied every mountain offered on that pass many times when I had it & it was because of the pass that I went. A better example of a geographically diverse pass would be Vail's Epic pass, you can even ski Europe with that pass.



Several tempting mountains on that AfO pass, worth driving for. It's tough to get excited about a Jiminy / Bromely / Cranmore pass.


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## xwhaler (Jul 21, 2014)

Edd said:


> Several tempting mountains on that AfO pass, worth driving for. It's tough to get excited about a Jiminy / Bromely / Cranmore pass.



This was my point.....because they are so geographically diverse and really are not 'destination' type mtns like Epic or ASC days I think the appeal of that combo would be limited.
I think the best combo passes are either close geographically so folks can enjoy variety *or* are big time places where folks get an incredible mix of awesome terrain. It needs to be one or the other (ideally both) for combo passes to work.

Not hating on any of the 3 mtns but I think most in the market for a pass there would just stick to that 1 mtn.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 21, 2014)

Well Okemo & Sunapee aren't exactly ski areas I'd write home about either. In fact now getting 3 free days at K with the Okemo/Sunapee pass seems to be a bigger deal. I don't think K skiers now getting 3 free days at Okemo means to much to them. I drive past both Jimminy & Bromley on my way to/from VT. most of the time. Just drove past both this past Fri.


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## SIKSKIER (Jul 21, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> There should really be a Cannon/Sunapee Pass, we'd probably have that if it were state run too.


They had them for many many years.In fact,my first season pass was a combo in the eraly 70's.Later on they were called Cannapee Passes.


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## xwhaler (Jul 21, 2014)

Cannon/Gunstock combo pass should/could happen given they are both owned/run by the state---I know Gunstock is Belknap county but there should be a way to figure that out. Though perhaps I'm giving in-state federal govt too much credit to work together on something.


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## Highway Star (Jul 21, 2014)

Killington gets some shiny new mulch this year!  It's going to be awesome!!!


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## steamboat1 (Jul 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Killington gets some shiny new mulch this year!  It's going to be awesome!!!



Yeah they also blocked off the unloading area at K-1 & put in flower pots, picnic tables & fresh gravel in it's place.....awesome


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## mbedle (Jul 21, 2014)

I'm not sure Vail would agree with that statement. They have some of the cheapest passes out there. You know its cheap when you call up to reserve a room for a week and they sell you a season pass, because you save money skiing for 6 days on the pass. How could you turn down buying a keystone/abasin season pass for $289. That is crazy skiing out there for 6 days at $49 a day!!!




thetrailboss said:


> Yeah that's exactly their situation. They're making good money with the current volume. Remember ASC cheap passes, in some ways, ruined things because there were too many skiers and riders.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Jul 21, 2014)

mbedle said:


> I'm not sure Vail would agree with that statement. They have some of the cheapest passes out there. You know its cheap when you call up to reserve a room for a week and they sell you a season pass, because you save money skiing for 6 days on the pass. How could you turn down buying a keystone/abasin season pass for $289. That is crazy skiing out there for 6 days at $49 a day!!!



They've got a different revenue/pricing strategy.  If you've skied Vail you know that season passes are cheap, day passes are average/high, and everything else is really, really expensive.  They have MANY more avenues for revenue than Triple Peaks does with Sunapee (destination resort vs. day resort).


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## Tin (Jul 21, 2014)

Screw bubbles and gondis, grow a beard.


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## mbedle (Jul 22, 2014)

Couldn't agree more.... Though, the melt off in the lodge kind of sucks!






Tin said:


> Screw bubbles and gondis, grow a beard.


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## dlague (Jul 22, 2014)

Tin said:


> Screw bubbles and gondis, grow a beard.



I think this is funny - we have all skied in sub zero conditions, heavy snow days, and very windy days as well.  We never used chairs with a bubble and we were fine.  I think a bubble play is more suited for the beginner intermediate crowd that would otherwise not venture out when conditions are what they consider tough.  Hardcore skiers/snowboarders would go out in most any condition.


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## snosharkrider (Jul 22, 2014)

"I think this is funny - we have all skied in sub zero conditions, heavy snow days, and very windy days as well. We never used chairs with a bubble and we were fine."

Sentiments like these - from various posters - remind me of the Bill Cosby quote about his father walking to school 4 o'clock every morning with no shoes on, uphill, both ways, and how he was thankful. 

I know some hardcore skiers who will appreciate the bubble making easier scheduling safety meeting sessions.


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## gmcunni (Jul 23, 2014)

and in other Okemo News -



> Orange is Powerful
> Operation Snowburst II is underway, as Okemo will soon take delivery of 100 new, energy-efficient HKD tower guns. Okemo utilizes snowmaking guns of various types, but it is the HKD SV series of guns that will be making a big impression on skiers and riders operation snowburst II and HKDvisiting Okemo, and specifically the Solitude area, this winter. The mountain-wide total of these modular and versatile tower guns now sits at 1,125! Operation Snowburst II will mean more snow for Okemo Mountain Resort skiers and riders when they need it most. Okemo is targeting November 15 as opening day of the 2014/15 season. - See more at: http://www.okemo.com/activities/snowsports/ticketing/orange_is_whats_new.asp#sthash.IyecLdt3.dpuf


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## dlague (Jul 23, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> and in other Okemo News -



They do have incredible snow making power!  Once they start, I like to watch their interactive trail map and see multiple trails open on a daily basis.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 24, 2014)

It's easy to blow snow on a flat mountain. Not to much base required.


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## Tin (Jul 24, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> It's easy to blow snow on a flat mountain. Not to much base required.




:lol:


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## WoodCore (Jul 24, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> It's easy to blow snow on a flat mountain.....




Just as easy as it is to blow snow on a steep mountain.


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## dlague (Jul 24, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> It's easy to blow snow on a flat mountain. Not to much base required.



They have a boatload of snow guns and snow making capacity - it really does not matter what their trails grade is!  Stowe and Killington are in the same class with respect to snow making production are they too flat too?  Okemo can cover 650 acres with snow making.  Killington can cover 57 miles of trails or about 1200 acres but Killington only has about 350 more guns - are they spread too thin?


Vermont #1 for Snowmaking either way!


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## Newpylong (Jul 24, 2014)

WoodCore said:


> Just as easy as it is to blow snow on a steep mountain.



But not produce a base...

He has a good point, it is easy to make tons of snow and have it hold on flat terrain. You can get away with making far less and being skiiable.

Okemo and Stratton are both flat and make a sh*t load of snow though. What impresses me both is the actual % of terrain covered. Practically every trail has pipes.


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## Edd (Jul 24, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> But not produce a base...
> 
> He has a good point, it is easy to make tons of snow and have it hold on flat terrain. You can get away with making far less and being skiiable.



Agreed. Bretton Woods holds onto snow easier for the same reason. It's pretty noticeable if you frequently ski the areas surrounding it.


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## ScottySkis (Jul 29, 2014)

dlague said:


> They have a boatload of snow guns and snow making capacity - it really does not matter what their trails grade is!  Stowe and Killington are in the same class with respect to snow making production are they too flat too?  Okemo can cover 650 acres with snow making.  Killington can cover 57 miles of trails or about 1200 acres but Killington only has about 350 more guns - are they spread too thin?
> 
> 
> Vermont #1 for Snowmaking either way!



Today, Hunter maintains it’s reputation as "the snow making capital of  the world," routinely opening terrain faster than most other mountains.   After a warm start to the season in 2010 Hunter got 90% of terrain open  in eight days.   Hunter has become a lynch pin in the local economy and  much of the commerce in the village of Hunter centers around the ski  area and its year round activities.
                                                                                                                                                                                Just a reminder of who really invested in the snow making speed and great snow many years ago.
http://nyskiblog.com/directory/#nabble-td4709195


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## bobbutts (Jul 29, 2014)

Okemo's first run open at least used to be World Cup t-b
It's a black that would be blue elsewhere, pretty similar pitch to what most places open early season.
Compared to K-mart's short, flat, slow triple with a walk required, it's steeper, much longer, and serviced by a much nicer lift, especially with the upgrade this season.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 29, 2014)

IMO - World Cup at Okemo is the best early season trail to open in the east.  Lower WC is pretty wide open and boring, but Upper WC has some nice flow with the fall line.  WC would is a pretty solid 1600 vert crusier for anywhere in the east IMO.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 29, 2014)

I agree DHS.  While Okemo isn't Killington, Stowe, Cannon, etc.  It is a decent mountain that offers excellent intermediate terrain.  Being from PA I enjoy skiing there.  However, I must say that more than a day or 2 and It would be boring.  we've always hit it on the 3rd day of a 3 day weekend after skiing Killington for 2 days.  It's a good way to round out the trip. 

I personally don't get the hate, but I guess it's just "internet muscles" that many people tend to flex.


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## Newpylong (Jul 29, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> Okemo's first run open at least used to be World Cup t-b
> It's a black that would be blue elsewhere, pretty similar pitch to what most places open early season.
> Compared to K-mart's short, flat, slow triple with a walk required, it's steeper, much longer, and serviced by a much nicer lift, especially with the upgrade this season.



And opened 2-3 weeks after Killington's "short, flat and slow" triple. By the time World Cup is open Killington is into the Canyon effectively giving you a run of similar length and pitch.

To each his own, I don't really criticize any mountain's offerings.


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## bobbutts (Jul 29, 2014)

Newpylong said:


> And opened 2-3 weeks after Killington's "short, flat and slow" triple. By the time World Cup is open Killington is into the Canyon effectively giving you a run of similar length and pitch.
> 
> To each his own, I don't really criticize any mountain's offerings.


I'll go to either and enjoy them both.  It's less of a Killington criticism than a mention that Okemo has some good early season skiing available.  Yeah, it lacks any sustained steep runs, but early season, those aren't going to be open anywhere regardless.  Also, Great Northern opens after Rime, no?  Or you're saying East Fall?


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## xwhaler (Jul 29, 2014)

Okemo does do a good job with early season ops. WC is a good trail for cruising and the summit lodge plus HSQ makes it an attractive proposition.
We'll be there Thanksgiving wknd if not sooner.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 29, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> I'll go to either and enjoy them both.  It's less of a Killington criticism than a mention that Okemo has some good early season skiing available.  *Yeah, it lacks any sustained steep runs, but early season, those aren't going to be open anywhere regardless. * Also, Great Northern opens after Rime, no?  Or you're saying East Fall?


The Downdraft headwall is usually one of the first things to open after they get upper Great Northern connected to North Ridge. They hold an early season competition on it (Turkey Jam).


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## WoodCore (Jul 29, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> The Downdraft headwall is usually one of the first things to open after they get upper Great Northern connected to North Ridge. They hold an early season competition on it (Turkey Jam).




I wouldn't necessarily call that a "sustained" steep run.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 29, 2014)

WoodCore said:


> I wouldn't necessarily call that a "sustained" steep run.


Steeper than anything at Okemo sustained or not/early season or not.


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## dlague (Jul 29, 2014)

Let's face it - if you like making turns and cruising, Okemo has plenty to offer.  They do provide some nice bump trails on the Jackson Gore side but they dump on to a cruiser.  If you are looking for heart pounding excitement - naturally Okemo is not for you.  I enjoy skiing there mainly to cruise around and focus on Glades Peak, South face and Northstar with a little Jackson Gore.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 29, 2014)

dlague said:


> Let's face it - if you like making turns and cruising, Okemo has plenty to offer.  They do provide some nice bump trails on the Jackson Gore side but they dump on to a cruiser.  If you are looking for heart pounding excitement - naturally Okemo is not for you.  I enjoy skiing there mainly to cruise around and focus on Glades Peak, South face and Northstar with a little Jackson Gore.


Actually if you're into bumps Okemo has more to offer than K. K has been grooming the heck out of the mountain the last few years leaving only a few small areas of seeded bumps which don't amount to much. Even natural snow bump runs such as North Star & Great Bear have been groomed. This has been a major complaint of K regulars including myself the last few years. You have to wait until spring to find good bumps at K. Royal Flush is the only good bump run usually left untouched (although I did see it groomed once) & they usually leave 1/2 of OL ungroomed. Upper Needles & skiers right on lower Needles are also usually left bumped as well as a few other short shots on the mountain. Pretty much everything else gets groomed regularly.

Okemo usually has several runs bumped up all season. I'm not good with trail names at Okemo but the run above the 1/2 pipe is usually bumped up as is the trail under the triple next to the Northstar lift. The trail down to the Solitude chair from the upper mountain triple is another as well as one run over at Jackson Gore. See I don't always knock Okemo although I still don't enjoy skiing there.


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## Newpylong (Jul 29, 2014)

I agree, I think the bumps at Okemo have been better than K recently. The one down in Solitude is the Plunge and the one by Black Chair is Sel's Choice. Both good runs.  It does seem like you have to wait until spring for nice bumps at K and even then they are on the natural only trails as the ones with snowmaking are either bulletproof or flattened.  Stratton also has some good bumps runs all season.

I was referring to East Fall when I said Killington moves into the Canyon. I forgot all about Downdraft Headwall.


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## mikestaple (Jul 29, 2014)

I had my first bubble experience at Big Sky last Feb.  They bought out the old Spanish Peaks and that had a short lift with a bubble (sorry, no orange).

It was a nice novelty.  But after the first time, you really didn't need it.  In fact, if anything, it made the ride up humid and fogged up the googles.


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## Madroch (Jul 29, 2014)

After a 20 plus year hiatus from okemo -Skied okemo 11/17 this year- pouring rain and they had maybe 3-4 trails ttb - maybe 9 listed as open- skied 38k cruising  all day on an empty north star express on great wet snow-  awesome day- way more terrain than snow or Stratton- k may have been ttb on snow den with glades triple at that time- maybe more acreage but it was bits and pieces... Props to okemo - even after that they added trails quicker than anyone except k-


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## drjeff (Aug 7, 2014)

And it's name will be....

Sun Burst 6


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## Newpylong (Aug 7, 2014)

Not a bad choice imho


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## Madroch (Sep 15, 2014)

They seem to be getting ready to pour the footings in the tower- no terminals or barn in sight- from what I could tell- they really gonna get this up for mid dec?


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## drjeff (Sep 15, 2014)

Madroch said:


> They seem to be getting ready to pour the footings in the tower- no terminals or barn in sight- from what I could tell- they really gonna get this up for mid dec?



As long as no CRAZY events happen to effect construction, it will be ready in 3 months time I'm sure! 

Once the footings are in and cured and all the lift components are on site, it really will go from looking like barely anything to looking like a lift that's ready to operate quickly! Same with the storage barn depending on the type of construction they use. If it's a steel frame, almost pre-fab like structure that will also quickly go up! Mount Snow's storage barn took a while to build simply because they chose to use all post + beam "old school" New England barn type construction! Regardless of what type of barn Okemo builds, I'm quite sure that prior to building it, they'll install the storage rails and their support towers in the area that will be inside the barn before putting the roof and/or walls up - much easier doing it that way with likely the same crane that will install the bottom terminal components


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## dlague (Sep 30, 2014)

I was noticing on a Banff FB page that some one earned their turns and skied a dump on September 3 on at Sunshine.  Out in interest, I went to their site to look at Cams - it is all gone but it is spitting snow there at this time.  I know, I know what the hell does this have to do with Okemo and the oragne heated bubble chair well check it out

http://www.skibanff.com/sunshine-village-news/sunshine-village-will-soon-have-the-hottest-chair-in-canada/

Those orange bubbles are popping up all over!


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## Lone Pine (Sep 30, 2014)

The concrete needs to cure for a month before the towers get affixed. Apparently, everything is on schedule.


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## ss20 (Sep 30, 2014)

Lone Pine said:


> The concrete needs to cure for a month before the towers get affixed. Apparently, everything is on schedule.



No October opening then it seems.


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## drjeff (Oct 1, 2014)

ss20 said:


> No October opening then it seems.



For their new bubble six pack? Nope

Overall, who knows?  Okemo's GM on their FB page recently did post their early season opening plans that enabled them to work around the terrain that the Sunburst 6 will service once it opens in it's from the get go targeted early December opening date


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## ss20 (Oct 1, 2014)

I've always thought they should open up the Green Ridge chair terrain for early season instead of Glades.  Better exposure I would imagine.  Plus they could open up some green terrain, always something Okemo wants to do.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 1, 2014)

You would need to open an additional lift to offer Green Ridge terrain instead of Glades peak.


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## WoodCore (Oct 1, 2014)

ss20 said:


> I've always thought they should open up the Green Ridge chair terrain for early season instead of Glades.  Better exposure I would imagine.  Plus they could open up some green terrain, always something Okemo wants to do.




Exposure is not that big of a factor in the early season and as DHS stated they would have run additional lifts to access the terrain.


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## ss20 (Oct 1, 2014)

Run the black triple with downloading.  Have buses run to the base of the lift.


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## WoodCore (Oct 1, 2014)

ss20 said:


> Run the black triple with downloading.  Have buses run to the base of the lift.




Pretty sure the black triple isn't capable of downloading.


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