# Which is more demanding physically? Mentally?



## Greg (May 12, 2009)

It amazes me when I read the mileage you roadies log. 30. 40. 50+ miles in one ride. 10-12 on the MTB wipes me out pretty good. The night after a MTB ride is guaranteed deep deep sleep. Does a road ride suck the life out of you in the same way? Probably a question that can only be answered by those that do both, although I assume those that do both are in such shape that us mere mortals can't even comprehend.

I have to imagine that road riding depends more on pure leg strength, while MTB is more upper body as well a lot of mental concentration (one of the primary reason I'm drawn to it). I suspect cardio requirements are similar, but road riding seems more like just grinding it out, which might be a mental challenge in its own right, vs. having to analyze which line is best to keep you from wrecking on a rock. Maybe I'm trying to make more of a distinction between the two than is really there?


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## Marc (May 12, 2009)

I'd def. agree with you that MTB'ing involves much more upper body strength, and more stabilizing muscles probably as well.

Mileage is totally different on the road vs the trail.  You really can't compare the two.

As far as the mental aspect, I've found sections of road to be as mentally challenging and stimulating as riding on the trails, mostly because the roads are terrible around here and you really have to pay attention.  The whole riding in traffic thing too... it's the same kind of mental/physical mix as MTB'ing, trying to time your moves right... sprinting with traffic, judging distances.

And how wiped out ya get only depends on how hard ya push, in both cases.

I'm pretty mediocre at both, but that's my thoughts on it.


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## Greg (May 12, 2009)

Marc said:


> I'm pretty mediocre at both, but that's my thoughts on it.



I've mountain biked with you so I can say pretty confidentially that this is not mediocre:







Anyway, I enjoy reading your perspective as both a roadie and mountain biker. Also, kinda interesting that almost all of your cycling related posts are lucid and sane. What happened to Marc? 

We gotta ride again soon.


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## mondeo (May 12, 2009)

I can tell you I hate riding heavy bikes with underinflated tires on pavement. Much harder than light and properly inflated. And that's still on pavement.

My guess is MTB is more of a sprint, road is closer to marathon running. Yeah, up steep hills you might have to push hard, but for the most part it's just rhythmically cranking away. By the end of the summer last year a 25 mile ride was a nice relaxing after work activity, not really all that challenging physically. 50 mile rides left my legs tired, but nothing near what a day of bump skiing does to your total level of energy.

At least with my broken wrist I have an excuse for putting off buying a MTB for another year. I'm stuck with running for now.uke:


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## JD (May 12, 2009)

My thoughts on the two.  While road riding you are there and so is the burn in your legs.  Keeping it rolling is a mental battle the whole time, walking that fine line between backing off and blowing up.  You are constantly making subtle adjustments to cadence and posture, focusing on your spin and pedaling circles.  You get lost in that fight and are in heaven....
Mtn biking is totally different.  Generally, it's alot more sprint training, and even on long climbs there are moments where you have to attack to get thru a tech spot on the climb, and other spots you have to  recover.  There is so much going on in terms of the surface...where you can lay down some power strokes and when you need to "float" over roots and rocks or risk spinning out.  ALOT of MTBing in terms of time on a ride is low speed...as in 3-4-5mph.  At these speeds it is much harder to just stay balanced on a bike, then you have to pick a line and for some of us, be in the right gear..duck branches...avoid hitting trees with your handlebars..pull that annoying leaf out of your forks that's been buzzing for the last mile...so much going on just to keep rolling that you lose yourself in that aspect and are in heaven.  On the descents, both are exillerating.  I would head for the most twisty descending road on my road bike during rush hour in Jersey and really had fun dropping sports cars on the downhill, but that level of exilleration is nothing compared to maching at blur speed down a tight singletrack over steep rollers and mandatory gappers....there's basically so much going on you forget that your suffering....
So, you either revel in the pain and are a roadie, which is prolly more of a mental struggle and requires much less technical ability.  Or, you suffer thru the pain in an attempt to clean up a tough climb and revel in the technicality of bike handleing.  
As far as strength goes, a roadie will drop the hammer on a bunch of MTBers on nontechnical rides, but on tough trail they lack a well rounded physique and waste energy fighting the bike instead of letting it roll and they ussually end up blowing up, crashing and being bloody.
Just my observations.


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## Greg (May 12, 2009)

JD said:


> My thoughts on the two.  While road riding you are there and so is the burn in your legs.  Keeping it rolling is a mental battle the whole time, walking that fine line between backing off and blowing up.  You are constantly making subtle adjustments to cadence and posture, focusing on your spin and pedaling circles.  You get lost in that fight and are in heaven....
> Mtn biking is totally different.  Generally, it's alot more sprint training, and even on long climbs there are moments where you have to attack to get thru a tech spot on the climb, and other spots you have to  recover.  There is so much going on in terms of the surface...where you can lay down some power strokes and when you need to "float" over roots and rocks or risk spinning out.  ALOT of MTBing in terms of time on a ride is low speed...as in 3-4-5mph.  At these speeds it is much harder to just stay balanced on a bike, then you have to pick a line and for some of us, be in the right gear..duck branches...avoid hitting trees with your handlebars..pull that annoying leaf out of your forks that's been buzzing for the last mile...so much going on just to keep rolling that you lose yourself in that aspect and are in heaven.  On the descents, both are exillerating.  I would head for the most twisty descending road on my road bike during rush hour in Jersey and really had fun dropping sports cars on the downhill, but that level of exilleration is nothing compared to maching at blur speed down a tight singletrack over steep rollers and mandatory gappers....there's basically so much going on you forget that your suffering....
> So, you either revel in the pain and are a roadie, which is prolly more of a mental struggle and requires much less technical ability.  Or, you suffer thru the pain in an attempt to clean up a tough climb and revel in the technicality of bike handleing.
> As far as strength goes, a roadie will drop the hammer on a bunch of MTBers on nontechnical rides, but on tough trail they lack a well rounded physique and waste energy fighting the bike instead of letting it roll and they ussually end up blowing up, crashing and being bloody.
> Just my observations.



You're another one whose cycling-related posts I just enjoy reading.


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## deadheadskier (May 12, 2009)

Marc said:


> The whole riding in traffic thing too...



While skiing, I feel safer charging through the woods or a mogul field with constant terrain changes than I do letting em' fly down a buffed groomer if there is traffic around me.

On a bicycle I'm sure I'd feel the same.


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## bvibert (May 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> While skiing, I feel safer charging through the woods or a mogul field with constant terrain changes than I do letting em' fly down a buffed groomer if there is traffic around me.
> 
> On a bicycle I'm sure I'd feel the same.



Imagine if the morons on the corduroy were all driving groomers and seemed oblivious to their surroundings, that would probably be a closer comparison to MTB vs road biking, I think.


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## marcski (May 28, 2009)

Like Marc said, ultimately for both it depends on how hard you charge and the terrain you're riding on.  You can't compare the mileage from one to the other, its like apples and oranges. 

I think in general mountain biking is more akin to interval training...where you charge hard for short periods of time.  Whereas road biking is a more continuous struggle.   Whenever you watch road racing they always talk about how the riders "suffer".  I think watching a serious road race you can get an idea. It's not just about the mileage..its about the accelerations. Being able to accelerate at will...when climbing or otherwise, just takes so much energy.


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## WoodCore (May 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> While skiing, I feel safer charging through the woods or a mogul field with constant terrain changes than I do letting em' fly down a buffed groomer if there is traffic around me.
> 
> On a bicycle I'm sure I'd feel the same.



I agree!! I always feel much safer being control of my own destiny rather than having to worry about someone else's actions. My brother always told me when skiing, go fast enough so that you only have to worry about the one direction that your in control of!!


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## mondeo (May 28, 2009)

WoodCore said:


> I agree!! I always feel much safer being control of my own destiny rather than having to worry about someone else's actions. My brother always told me when skiing, go fast enough so that you only have to worry about the one direction that your in control of!!


For some reason that explanation doesn't work well with cops when applied to vehicles.


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## Marc (May 29, 2009)

mondeo said:


> For some reason that explanation doesn't work well with cops when applied to vehicles.



Pff... try convincing one that the speed limit is based on the maximum safe traveling speed of the longest stopping distance and lane changing speed on a legally allowed vehicle operated by a person meeting only the minimum vision and reaction time requirements (hahahaha, like there is one for reaction time, in my dreams).

Hence, driving 20 mph over the speed limit in a late model sports sedan with 20/25 vision and excellent reaction time is still safer than that 80,000 lb tractor-trailer that just blew by and knocked off your silly looking hat.


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## Gremf (May 29, 2009)

I agree with JD and it's interesting but I never looked at it that way.  MTB'ing is like sprinting.  Alot of the DH stuff you aren't hammering, just coasting, but when you approach that hill, it's hammer time!  Especially on a Singlespeed!

Try this on for size, when I ride road, it mostly fixed gear.  Sometimes I will flip the wheel and go free but fixed gear riding is intense.  Whole different strategy.  Like maintaining a proper cadence while descending, and while I have a brake for emergencies, my goal when riding is to never use the brake.  I get an awesome workout between 10 and 20 miles.


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## mondeo (May 29, 2009)

Well, given that the national speed limit was set at 55mph purely for fuel consumption reasons and then simply incremented by 10 mph by many states based on the fact that the average speed on highways was 70mph, it's hard to argue current highway speed limits have anything to do with safety.


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## Marc (May 29, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Well, given that the national speed limit was set at 55mph purely for fuel consumption reasons and then simply incremented by 10 mph by many states based on the fact that the average speed on highways was 70mph, it's hard to argue current highway speed limits have anything to do with safety.



They're even less thrilled to hear that one.


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## campgottagopee (May 29, 2009)

JD said:


> My thoughts on the two.  While road riding you are there and so is the burn in your legs.  Keeping it rolling is a mental battle the whole time, walking that fine line between backing off and blowing up.  You are constantly making subtle adjustments to cadence and posture, focusing on your spin and pedaling circles.  You get lost in that fight and are in heaven....
> Mtn biking is totally different.  Generally, it's alot more sprint training, and even on long climbs there are moments where you have to attack to get thru a tech spot on the climb, and other spots you have to  recover.  There is so much going on in terms of the surface...where you can lay down some power strokes and when you need to "float" over roots and rocks or risk spinning out.  ALOT of MTBing in terms of time on a ride is low speed...as in 3-4-5mph.  At these speeds it is much harder to just stay balanced on a bike, then you have to pick a line and for some of us, be in the right gear..duck branches...avoid hitting trees with your handlebars..pull that annoying leaf out of your forks that's been buzzing for the last mile...so much going on just to keep rolling that you lose yourself in that aspect and are in heaven.  On the descents, both are exillerating.  I would head for the most twisty descending road on my road bike during rush hour in Jersey and really had fun dropping sports cars on the downhill, but that level of exilleration is nothing compared to maching at blur speed down a tight singletrack over steep rollers and mandatory gappers....there's basically so much going on you forget that your suffering....
> So, you either revel in the pain and are a roadie, which is prolly more of a mental struggle and requires much less technical ability.  Or, you suffer thru the pain in an attempt to clean up a tough climb and revel in the technicality of bike handleing.
> As far as strength goes, a roadie will drop the hammer on a bunch of MTBers on nontechnical rides, but on tough trail they lack a well rounded physique and waste energy fighting the bike instead of letting it roll and they ussually end up blowing up, crashing and being bloody.
> Just my observations.




When you were in Stowe did you ever watch the race thru the notch??? Talk about a nasty climb then all out nuts down----that's was fun to watch.


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## boston_e (May 29, 2009)

Overall the biggest factor is in how hard you push it and what type of riding you are doing.  Both can be very physically and mentally demanding if you are pushing yourself, both can be very easy if you dont push it.

For building overall cardo fitness and leg strength I think the road bike is better... most of the people in my mt bike circle felt like they definatley improved their off road riding after they picked up road riding (at least from a speed and racing standpoint).

The mountain bike requires some upper body strength, balance and technical ability that you cannot pick up on the road bike.

For anyone that only does one or the other... I'd encourage you to pick up the one that  you don't do!


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## tjf67 (Jun 1, 2009)

In both cases if you know your own body you can finish a ride and still party like a rock star.

Road biking you have to keep track on where you are in the ride.  You dont want to leave to much on the road when you have 30 miles left to go.  It hurts when you blow out everything you got and still have a ways to go.  Did that once wont do it again.  I watched a friend do it for the past two weekends.  The look on his face for the  last 20 miles is just depressing.

MTB is more like a sprint but you can still have to watch your threshhold.  You go over it and you are dissy and wiping out all over the place.  You can't see clearly and it just becomes a choir to stay clipped in.   
In both cases I work into the ride.  Once you have been out a hour or two you know what you have.  I usually dont ever push more than 80% unless the terrain dictates. 

In both cases i know at the end of the ride  there is food and beer so for the last 45 minutes or so that get me through.


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## abc (Jun 5, 2009)

Unless racing, I don't think just riding around is "mental" at all, road or off-road. 

On road, there're flat stretches you can take it easy. In fact, so easy the miles just fly right by! You can also purposely pick a route to mixed the hills with the flats. Even if you pick a hilly rides, what goes up must come down! So it's never all pain, mental or physical. 

Off road, it depends on terrain even more. A network of easy, buffed single track (Kingdom trail anyone?), you can easily do 20 miles and still dance half a night away. Try Ringwood for 20 miles, you'll be seeing stars (at least the first few rides).

Over all, it's easier to "go easy" on road than off. Even most of the "easy" off-road rides are never truly that "easy". So there's a minimum level of exertion for off-road rides. While with road bike, I can cruise on a bike path for 10 miles without even breaking sweat (done that day-in and day-out commuting)! 

If I only have an hour (and live near a good trail), I'd go off-road for the maximum workout and maximum fun. For road riding, I need about 3 hours and 50 miles to feel I've "had a good time". Just odd stuff.


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## kingdom-tele (Jun 5, 2009)

its all blibbidy blah if you ask me - unless your measuring heart rate and geeking out on measurement of output over time you/we are all likely blowing up

riding/skiing/hiking/running at aerobic tempo is painfully slow for all but the ultra fit - it takes years to raise the aerobic level

biggest difference I feel is the interval timing, like JD stated, road ride is static by comparison to mt bike, like walking to hiking


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## AdironRider (Jun 5, 2009)

I think road biking is pure torture mentally. Just staring at the pavement and feeling the burn is hell for me. Its why I stopped swimming in my prime in college to take up snowboarding full time, and why I almost exclusively ride freeride/downhill. I enjoy the varied terrain and challenge the MTB provides, and you can always find a more interesting or challenging route down. At the same time I respect and realize that some people like the speed, workout, and mental challenge of road biking. 

The difference between road biking and MTB reminds me of the groomer/off piste debate. Different strokes for different folks.


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## mondeo (Jun 5, 2009)

AdironRider said:


> I think road biking is pure torture mentally. Just staring at the pavement and feeling the burn is hell for me. Its why I stopped swimming in my prime in college to take up snowboarding full time, and why I almost exclusively ride freeride/downhill. I enjoy the varied terrain and challenge the MTB provides, and you can always find a more interesting or challenging route down. At the same time I respect and realize that some people like the speed, workout, and mental challenge of road biking.
> 
> The difference between road biking and MTB reminds me of the groomer/off piste debate. Different strokes for different folks.


I think you have to be ok with only your thoughts to keep you company on a road bike. Aside from keeping an eye out for traffic and road conditions, I enjoy just being able to let my mind wander for a bit. It's some nice alone time, and at the same time as I'm getting some decent exercise. Plus the flats have a very therapeutic calming effect, with the steady rhythm of the cadence. It's a very calming experience overall for me. Maybe just runner's high.


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## big oz (Jun 6, 2009)

Pro MTBers train using a road bike, yet very few pro roadies train on MTB.  That being said, there are two reasons that I have heard from a few national caliber riders.  1.  In the Northeast especially, there aren't hills long enough to really push the max heart rate to a long term sustained limit. Only way to reach those max BPMs  and watts for long periods is on a road bike.  2.  Road bikes don't beat up the rest if your body as bad so your body has a quicker and easier recovery process.  Your recovery is focused on your legs and the like and not your upper body, etc. Again, these were words spoken by two serious, sponsored riders who ride at a pro level. 

 However, I believe that there are other factors such as fear and the like that come into play.  Before I get attacked I would like to preface this next statement by saying that I still occasionally ride road.  It is my opinion that MTB takes more skill to master in the long run.  I've seen a newbie come in and buy a road bike and log quality miles and quickly become a competetive level rider on a local level.  MTB is three battles really....fitness, skill and having a mindset that lets you test and improve your skill.  If you already have skills (say ex BMXer) you can focus more on pushing it.  If you have neither, there are a lot more obstacles to overcome technically, physically and mentally.


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## RootDKJ (Jun 6, 2009)

AdironRider said:


> I think road biking is pure torture mentally. Just staring at the pavement and feeling the burn is hell for me. Its why I stopped swimming in my prime in college


I can totally relate. Nothing like swimming 3000 yards AM practice and then another 2000 yards in the PM. I quit competative swimming in my freshman year.


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## abc (Jun 6, 2009)

AdironRider said:


> Just staring at the pavement and feeling the burn is hell for me.


I think that's just about it. If you're ONLY looking at roads, you're missing the scenary altogether!

Mountain bike can be done at the most boring locale as long as the trail itself is interesting (e.g. twisting, with obstacles). With road riding, I pick routes that has views, lake, mountain, quaint villages, animals, what not. 

When I live out west, there're stretches of flat, boring roads which feels like it never end!  I hate them and don't go there.


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## AdironRider (Jun 6, 2009)

Tell me about it. I live in the Tetons, so thats pretty sick scenery, but for the most part Wyoming is wide open and boring as hell. If I wanted to see the scenery along the roadside, Id rather just drive.


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## Marc (Jun 7, 2009)

big oz said:


> However, I believe that there are other factors such as fear and the like that come into play.  Before I get attacked I would like to preface this next statement by saying that I still occasionally ride road.  It is my opinion that MTB takes more skill to master in the long run.  I've seen a newbie come in and buy a road bike and log quality miles and quickly become a competetive level rider on a local level.  MTB is three battles really....fitness, skill and having a mindset that lets you test and improve your skill.  If you already have skills (say ex BMXer) you can focus more on pushing it.  If you have neither, there are a lot more obstacles to overcome technically, physically and mentally.



I don't think that opinion is likely to get you attacked.  I agree with it for the most part, being a roadie who, up until three years ago, road almost exclusively MTB.  Roadies who have never mountain biked... especially newer ones to the sport, really don't have the bike handling abilities that most MTBer's have, and that carries over to the road a lot.  I feel safer drafting with someone who has a MTB background who I know is a competent bike handler than someone who never has.


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