# Ascutney Mountain Sold!



## manhattanskier (Nov 4, 2013)

Ascutney Auctioned to high bidder - Title Free and Clear. I am not sure what this means, anyone hear anything?


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## wa-loaf (Nov 4, 2013)

Aren't they missing a lift?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2013)

No HSQ but everything else is there. Gonna have to do some research on this one. Good find manhattanskier!


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## manhattanskier (Nov 4, 2013)

Yeah, they sold their high speed quad to Crotched Mountain. There is only a few trails that are only served by that lift so there is very little loss, it also slightly raised their vertical feet.


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## manhattanskier (Nov 4, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> No HSQ but everything else is there. Gonna have to do some research on this one. Good find manhattanskier!



I was really surprised, thank you internet this video is less then 24 hours old lol Hope they reopen!


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2013)

manhattanskier said:


> I was really surprised, thank you internet this video is less then 24 hours old lol Hope they reopen!



Yeah was just going to ask if they are going to push for an opening this season.  It would be a tough one...but I'd rather see them have a soft opening this season and get something going again.


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## ss20 (Nov 4, 2013)

Another high point on the roller coaster life of Ascutney.  Never skied there, but what caused this place to fail?  Twice, correct?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2013)

And "free and clear" means that the resort was sold to a new owner...without all the debts and legal issues that it had (generally speaking).  So the new folks can do with it as they want.  

Looks/sounds like it will reopen!


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## Quietman (Nov 4, 2013)

HERE is a short but fairly good history of Ascutney.  I would imaging that it would take a lot of $ to get the mountain operational again, probably a lot more than it would ever generate.  

On a side note, I really enjoyed riding Ascutney's HS quad at Crotched last year.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2013)

ss20 said:


> Another high point on the roller coaster life of Ascutney.  Never skied there, but what caused this place to fail?  Twice, correct?



First time was the real estate bubble/1990's recession.  

Second time was because the ownership/management was just piss poor.


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## bobbutts (Nov 4, 2013)

MFW Associates, LLC (the winning bidder) has long time involvement
http://www.thevermontstandard.com/2013/08/ruling-could-open-up-sale-of-w-windsor-resort-archive/


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2013)

Here's a snippet of the drama:



> The Plausteiners bought Ascutney Mountain Resort out of bankruptcy in the early 1990s for $1.1 million. But it didn’t take long before they too started having money troubles.
> In 1998, the Plausteiners — as Snowdance LLC — were the majority owners of the ski resort and investment banker Dan Purjes and Myles Wittenstein were the minority owners. In 2005, Snowdance took out a $4.5 million promissory note from PRIF Ascutney LLC, a New Jersey-based investment company. Soon after, in 2008 when Snowdance began defaulting on its loan, Purjes and Wittenstein formed a new company, MFW Associates, and purchased the $4.5 million promissory note for $850,000.
> MFW started foreclosure proceedings shortly after, citing $1.8 million in debt.




So MFW essentially pushed out the old owners...free and clear.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 4, 2013)

It's actually a nice ski area with interesting & challenging terrain for southern VT. Skied there quite a few times. The terrain beats the heck out of most of it's nearby competitors with the exception of Magic maybe. The problem to me seemed to be no base elevation & it received little natural snow. It's outside the spine of the Green Mts. off on it's own in the valley. Magic has the same problem but to a lesser extent. I hope to be able to ski there again someday. Never skied there with the new lift that's now gone, don't think it added much except for a faster ride.

Oh & the parking lot was a mud fest in the spring. You could sink up to your floorboards. What a mess trying to walk to the base lodge.


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## crank (Nov 4, 2013)

I skied there a few times and they do have nice terrain. I have long thought that Ascutney could make it if only they could run a lift up to the top, adding at least a few hundred feet of vertical.  The top, however is part of a state park and, I believe, off limits.  I went there once on one of those super cheap deals where they make you sit through a sales pitch for timeshares.  Very glad I resisted that pitch.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 4, 2013)

Growing up skiing Okemo, I always looked across the valley at Mount Ascutney and wondered what if.  It's a pretty massive mountain with some of the steeper terrain in Southern VT.  If development was ever allowed to the summit, the vertical would be probably in the 2300 foot range.  It's got great access right off of 91, perhaps the best access of any VT ski area.  With such a location and it's physical assets, Ascutney could have been a major player in New England if it were developed fully during an era when environmental restrictions weren't so tough in Vermont.

As a mid-sized mountain I think it will always likely struggle though.  I skied there only a couple of times growing up and really enjoyed the terrain.  I just think it's a tough sell at it's size.

Hope I'm wrong and the new owners revive it with great success.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 4, 2013)




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## Quietman (Nov 4, 2013)

A quick thought, maybe this is probably the mountain that the people at Hermitage(Haystack) should have tried to reopen as a private area.  I do realize that it wasn't available at the time, just a "what-if?"


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## deadheadskier (Nov 4, 2013)

Quietman said:


> A quick thought, maybe this is probably the mountain that the people at Hermitage(Haystack) should have tried to reopen as a private area.  I do realize that it wasn't available at the time, just a "what-if?"



I was thinking the same thing.  It's certainly got much better terrain than Haystack.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 4, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I was thinking the same thing.  It's certainly got much better terrain than Haystack.



And better access and condos/lodging....


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## snoseek (Nov 5, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> And better access and condos/lodging....


And access to a killer mtb trail network


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## ScottySkis (Nov 5, 2013)

Quietman said:


> A quick thought, maybe this is probably the mountain that the people at Hermitage(Haystack) should have tried to reopen as a private area.  I do realize that it wasn't available at the time, just a "what-if?"



What if the people of A zone do it.


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## xwhaler (Nov 5, 2013)

I skied Ascutney once----probably back in 07 or 08 on a Warren Miller day. Really fun place---it was a sneaky 8" powder day and not many ppl there. They had a liberal policy on ropes and it was clear they didnt have the budget for/interest in grooming much. Nice classic NE style trails, narrow with surpringly good pitch. Sorta reminded me of a larger version of Black Mtn (NH) but with more continuous pitch throughout the run----both mtns are pretty narrow and sneaky steep in spots hence the comparison.

I would like to see them come back---perhaps offer some nice ski/stay deals through all that lodging they have. As I recall there is a nice seperate beginner area down by the condos with their own lift. 

Wonder what the folks at Magic/Whaleback think of this development though? I'd probably consider both direct competitors to the locals/schools/day trip market in the region.


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## drjeff (Nov 5, 2013)

Quietman said:


> A quick thought, maybe this is probably the mountain that the people at Hermitage(Haystack) should have tried to reopen as a private area.  I do realize that it wasn't available at the time, just a "what-if?"



Not quite sure if it would have had the early "success" that the Hermitage club has had for the following reasons:

#1 Proximity to another ski area with a successful core customer base.  Sure, Ascutney isn't that far from Okemo or Killington, BUT it isn't literally right next door like Mount Snow is to the Hermitage Club, therefore for marketing purposes, as the Hermitage Club did, they targeted people who already knew and more than liked owned property in the immediate area and knew ahead of time what the existing non club benefits of the immediate area were already. They didn't have to "sell" anyone on the local community as likely they would with Ascutney

#2 Mountain size proximity - Ascutney is smaller, and not just in trail count than Killington or Okemo, and not just by a little bit.  Haystack/Hermitage isn't that much smaller vertically than Mount Snow, and even has a similar "feel" when skiing down it as Mount Snow does. Familiarity helps with the selling of it

#3 Existing ammenities.  The Hermitage Club already has a solid, established golf course on their property, and also it's property is directly connected into the VAST snowmobile network. Additonal selling points to members.  The Hermitage Inn which is on site too also provided a bit of a direct example of what the ownership wanted to, and can do with the property is the owners of the Hermitage Club, bought the Inn first, and really spruced it up nicely so it in essence gave potential members a small idea of what they wanted to do with the rest of their vision

#4 - location.  Even though in reality if one comes out of the NYC area and heads over and up I-91 Ascutney isn't that much further than the Hermitage is from the KEY NYC market for this niche type resort, on a map it looks much further.


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## JoeB-Z (Nov 5, 2013)

This is all just preliminary to the actual sale. This auction totally consolidates MFW's title in light of the court rulings and against any claims by creditors or the Plausteiners. Now it can be sold without any encumbrances to the actual parties that want to operate the area. MFW has shown no interest in actually running the area.


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## bobbutts (Nov 5, 2013)

What kinds of airplanes can land there?


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## thetrailboss (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB-Z said:


> This is all just preliminary to the actual sale. This auction totally consolidates MFW's title in light of the court rulings and against any claims by creditors or the Plausteiners. Now it can be sold without any encumbrances to the actual parties that want to operate the area. MFW has shown no interest in actually running the area.



That was something that I wondered...since MFW was the creditor I assumed that like other commercial financing deals they just want (as much) of their money back and not run a resort.  So it was no real surprise that the "auction" yielded no other bidders except for MFW.  I will be interested to see if MFW has anyone ready, willing, and able to take over the resort.  I know that the Holiday Inn at the base and the many condo/timeshare owners are eager to see the place running again.


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## hammer (Nov 5, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> I know that the Holiday Inn at the base and the many condo/timeshare owners are eager to see the place running again.


We have plans on staying there in late January, had some timeshare exchange points to burn and it was the only place with availability.  What ski areas are within a reasonable drive?  Think I've read Okemo is closest.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 5, 2013)

hammer said:


> We have plans on staying there in late January, had some timeshare exchange points to burn and it was the only place with availability. What ski areas are within a reasonable drive? Think I've read Okemo is closest.



Sunapee, Okemo, Killington, Magic, Suicide Six, Bromley, Stratton are a few.  Dartmouth Skiway as well.


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## xwhaler (Nov 5, 2013)

hammer said:


> We have plans on staying there in late January, had some timeshare exchange points to burn and it was the only place with availability.  What ski areas are within a reasonable drive?  Think I've read Okemo is closest.



Okemo is abt 35 mins, K abt an hr, S6 35 mins, Dartmouth Skiway 55, Sunapee 40, Magic 50.....you have lots of options


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## JoeB-Z (Nov 5, 2013)

So there's part of the business problem for Ascutney. From Exit 6 on 91, Okemo, Magic and Ascutney are all about the same time. So Okemo for bland mountain, superior snowmaking and amenities, Magic for terrain, "old time" smaller resort experience and value. Ascutney has to thread the needle to succeed. Should be interesting. It seems at a minimum that Ascutney needs to get on the ball with snowmaking.


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## Quietman (Nov 5, 2013)

Just an FYI: Google shows Okemo and Magic are approx. 20-30 minutes longer drives than Ascutney, and both require 20+ miles of 2 lane road which can also increase times in bad weather.


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## Nick (Nov 5, 2013)

Plus Ascutney is big on paragliding


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## Quietman (Nov 5, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Sunapee, Okemo, Killington, Magic, Suicide Six, Bromley, Stratton are a few.  Dartmouth Skiway as well.



Don't forget Whaleback!!!


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## xwhaler (Nov 5, 2013)

Quietman said:


> Don't forget Whaleback!!!



Or Queechee!


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## Ski Diva (Nov 5, 2013)

I'd love if they re-opened. They're only about 20 minutes from me, and it's been so sad to drive or bike by there and see it all closed up. It'd be great to have another mountain to play on.


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## billski (Nov 5, 2013)

We took our three daughters there for 3 years.  We stayed three nights each visit.  The real problem, is that it's not convenient to anything.  We stayed at the base lodge.  There were three options for dinner - the restaurant (which served the same six things every night), the little pizza store, and a convenience store down the street.  We went there specifically because the traffic was low and we were concerned about our kids getting plowed into.  We pretty much had the beginners slope to ourselves.

It's not like it's in the middle of nowhere, but most of the other area had more nearby options for eat and drink and shopping.   It acts more like a day tripper's mountain, not a destination.

The other thing we found is that the weather can be a bit more fickle since the mountain is not on the spine.   We hit rain more than once when it was snowing on the spine.   Burke, while not on the spine, often lucks out because it is so far north.

I wouldn't even think about opening it this year as a ski area.  They have a lot of work to do to get demand gen going again, no matter what the venture.  It would be folly to open it without a lot of PR.

If I remember right, the management tried to make a go of diversifying into golf, but when he did, he neglected the ski area.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 5, 2013)

billski said:


> We took our three daughters there for 3 years.  We stayed three nights each visit.  The real problem, is that it's not convenient to anything.  We stayed at the base lodge.  There were three options for dinner - the restaurant (which served the same six things every night), the little pizza store, and a convenience store down the street.  We went there specifically because the traffic was low and we were concerned about our kids getting plowed into.  We pretty much had the beginners slope to ourselves.
> 
> It's not like it's in the middle of nowhere, but most of the other area had more nearby options for eat and drink and shopping.   It acts more like a day tripper's mountain, not a destination.



I don't think it's meant to be a "destination" resort like, say, Stowe.  It's meant to be a place to get away from things...that's what they always were going for with the small town literally at the base.  It's similar to Burke in that way.  I also find it funny that folks say they want to get away from things to relax and then complain that there is nothing to do.  That said, it sounds like they just did not have any options and that would hurt out-of-town traffic.    

On the flip side, I do think that it was (a very weak) local's resort.  The problem was that the management burned so many bridges, and locals had so many options, that locals went elsewhere.  When I lived in the Upper Valley from 2005-2007 everybody knew it was a cheap alternative but nobody really went there.  And you heard nothing about them.  But that was the beginning of the end really for them and they were running out of cash.  

Considering that MFW is just a finance company, I agree that it's unlikely they are going to open this season.  It is next to impossible, even if the snowmaking and lifts were all ready to go.  There is no staff, no management, etc.  That said, there was something said about there being a serious buyer or two.  Vail?  They could buy WV and Ascutney.  2 for 1.


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## billski (Nov 5, 2013)

maybe they are looking to flip it to some developer.


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## mister moose (Nov 6, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> What kinds of airplanes can land there?



I'm guessing you're jerking my chain, but interestingly Hartness State Airport is only 12 miles away, has a LOC/DME approach, and the runway is 5,500 feet.  That's a place even jets can go.  Twice the airport Mt Snow has, but probably less natural snow and a warmer base elevation that's 1,000 feet lower.  Superb access to I-91.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 6, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> On the flip side, I do think that it was (a very weak) local's resort.  The problem was that the management burned so many bridges, and locals had so many options, that locals went elsewhere.  When I lived in the Upper Valley from 2005-2007 everybody knew it was a cheap alternative but nobody really went there.  And you heard nothing about them.  But that was the beginning of the end really for them and they were running out of cash.


If there's one thing Ascutney was not it's cheap. Their walk up window rates were right up there with the big boy's


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## Quietman (Nov 6, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> If there's one thing Ascutney was not it's cheap. Their walk up window rates were right up there with the big boy's



Weekend tickets were $62 in 2009-2010.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 6, 2013)

Quietman said:


> Weekend tickets were $62 in 2009-2010.



And in 2014 places like Magic are $63, Pico $67, Middlebury $50, Bromley $68. $62 was not cheap 4 years ago.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 6, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> If there's one thing Ascutney was not it's cheap. Their walk up window rates were right up there with the big boy's



They ran a Sunday afternoon deal for locals and had some other deals that I was thinking of.


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## bobbutts (Nov 6, 2013)

mister moose said:


> I'm guessing you're jerking my chain, but interestingly Hartness State Airport is only 12 miles away, has a LOC/DME approach, and the runway is 5,500 feet.  That's a place even jets can go.  Twice the airport Mt Snow has, but probably less natural snow and a warmer base elevation that's 1,000 feet lower.  Superb access to I-91.


Yeah, it's more like 1/2 way jerking your chain.  It is actually interesting and cool to have so much knowledge on the board.  Just like a layup to hassle you about the obvious excitement.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 2, 2014)

http://www.vnews.com/news/townbytown/westwindsor/12167109-95/sale-ends-ski-era-at-ascutney


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## thetrailboss (Jun 2, 2014)

Ski lifts will be gone.  So very sad.  RIP Ascutney.


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## snoseek (Jun 2, 2014)

They really should consider leaving the mid mtn lift in place as lift served mtb would attract a whole new crowd and make the place very competitive with Burke. 

With that said they are sitting on some seriously good mtb terrain, big climbs, tech, flow, fields and sweet singletrack. I've come to like it even better than burke as its got more challenge and less people. Trails constantly being added and with closer proximity to more people things will likely catch on...words already out. 

But they really need to get the lift served going IMO


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## ss20 (Jun 2, 2014)

Never skied Ascutney, like so many others here.  But we've all seen it.  That giant, gnarly looking mountain that stands alone east of all the other VT mountains and west of all the NH mountains.  An independent mountain in a divided area.  Rest in peace, and may your history and memories be preserved on the servers of NELSAP, NE Ski History, and Chairlift.org.


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## bzrperfspec77 (Jun 3, 2014)

Wow... On May 27th of this year I booked a room at the hotel on the mountain for my fiance and I on our annual VT Beer Trip. I thought it would be cool to check the place out, do some hiking and see the possible potential in the mountain of re-opening (after reading this thread last year). I guess now it will be just checking out the old ski area before it gets changed over for good.


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## manhattanskier (Jun 3, 2014)

There was a lot of hope, sad to see it go but it was never positioned to thrive, maybe if it had the right leadership it could find their market...I feel most bad for the town.


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## skiNEwhere (Jun 3, 2014)

I skied ascutney once after they had the HSQ installed. I thought it was ok, it offered a little bit of everything, but I can't think of anything memorable that stuck out. How did they do in terms of snowfall?


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## WWF-VT (Jun 3, 2014)

snoseek said:


> They really should consider leaving the mid mtn lift in place as lift served mtb would attract a whole new crowd and make the place very competitive with Burke.
> 
> With that said they are sitting on some seriously good mtb terrain, big climbs, tech, flow, fields and sweet singletrack. I've come to like it even better than burke as its got more challenge and less people. Trails constantly being added and with closer proximity to more people things will likely catch on...words already out.
> 
> But they really need to get the lift served going IMO



Less people than Burke = little reason why anyone would invest and run a lift


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## snoseek (Jun 3, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> Less people than Burke = little reason why anyone would invest and run a lift




Yeah but still catching on. Like Burke was in the late 90's. They could easily steal a huge portion of burkes business.


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## WWF-VT (Jun 3, 2014)

snoseek said:


> Yeah but still catching on. Like Burke was in the late 90's. They could easily steal a huge portion of burkes business.



From other threads here about Burke, "stealing a huge portion of burkes business" still doesn't amount to much money.


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## snoseek (Jun 3, 2014)

^^^^The town is bustling with people on any given weekend in spring/summer/fall. Even the weekdays are busy often. These are people that ride 5k+ bikes....they ride then eat/shop/spend lots of money. There's much $$$ to be made.

I bet the village is busier in summer with the mtb crowd than winter with the skiers. I could be wrong but 25 years ago these places relied strictly on skiers in the winter to get them through the summer.


Look at highlands in NH. Couldn't survive as a ski resort ever but running things as a mtb only place they seem to be doing quite well.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 3, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I skied ascutney once after they had the HSQ installed. I thought it was ok, it offered a little bit of everything, but I can't think of anything memorable that stuck out. How did they do in terms of snowfall?



One of the problems with Ascutney was it has very low base elevation. The mountain is right off I-91 in the Ct. River Valley. Like has been said it's to the east of the spine of the Green Mtns. & west of the White Mtns. It didn't receive as much natural snow as some of it's nearby neighbors located in the middle of these mtn. ranges. Because of the low elevation any natural snow they did receive didn't last as long.

It's a shame to see a place like Ascutney close for good. I've skied there many times & thought the mountain offered lot's of variety & challenge. Certainly more challenge then it's neighbor Okemo & more variety than it's other nearest neighbor Suicide Six. It wasn't the largest ski area in VT. but by no means would I call it a small ski area.


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## slatham (Jun 3, 2014)

Given what I know of Magic, with its very loyal following and significant skiing attributes, yet struggles, I find it hard to believe that Ascutney could find a big enough market to survive, especially after the required capital investment. The bikers and their $5k bikes probably want the full-on resort capabilities that are already served by Mt Snow, Stratton and Okemo (if not Hermitage Club for the ubber's out there). Hard core experts will ski Magic, Mt Snow (North Face) or head north to K-mart etc. The mountain, as commented, is not memorable. Its low and in a snow shadow. I just find it hard to believe, IMHO, that the mountain could survive in this day and age. I hate seeing another area NELSP'ed, but I think Ascutney will be. I just hope there are no others.......


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## bigbog (Jun 3, 2014)

snoseek said:


> They really should consider leaving the mid mtn lift in place as lift served mtb would attract a whole new crowd and make the place very competitive with Burke.
> 
> With that said they are sitting on some seriously good mtb terrain, big climbs, tech, flow, fields and sweet singletrack. I've come to like it even better than burke as its got more challenge and less people. Trails constantly being added and with closer proximity to more people things will likely catch on...words already out.
> 
> But they really need to get the lift served going IMO



I really like the mid-mtn thinking!.....don't know if the ones with deeper pockets do...y/n?


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## AdironRider (Jun 3, 2014)

snoseek said:


> ^^^^The town is bustling with people on any given weekend in spring/summer/fall. Even the weekdays are busy often. These are people that ride 5k+ bikes....they ride then eat/shop/spend lots of money. There's much $$$ to be made.
> 
> I bet the village is busier in summer with the mtb crowd than winter with the skiers. I could be wrong but 25 years ago these places relied strictly on skiers in the winter to get them through the summer.
> 
> ...



People always champion bikers for spending money, but in reality outside of the local gas and go, unless you own a bike shop that money never materializes. 

Most of my mtb bike buddies do buy 5k bikes, but they wait tables and hustle for their bike just like they hustle for a ski pass. 

How many Vice Presidents or CEO's do you know that really bike all that often. This isnt buying the latest greatest Cannondale road bike to impress their buddies with and ride once, you are talking about a biker thats going to commit to travel and buy lift tickets to go beat themselves up with a downhill run? Yeah that market is slim. 

Highland is also just outside of an hour from Boston, unlike Ascutney.


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## snoseek (Jun 3, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> People always champion bikers for spending money, but in reality outside of the local gas and go, unless you own a bike shop that money never materializes.
> 
> Most of my mtb bike buddies do buy 5k bikes, but they wait tables and hustle for their bike just like they hustle for a ski pass.
> 
> ...



Take a look at a town like Burke or better yet Fruita in Co. Fruita at this point exist solely for mtn bikers. All the restaurants/shops/lodging ect...all revolve around mtb riders and serving them. The hot tomato is slamming on any given day, it would not exist without that crowd. In fact Fruita would literally just be a gas station and Mcd's before entering the desert on I-70. Places like Bruke/Moab/Sedona would exist as there's other activities but I bet not to the extent they do now. People travel on planes to go to these places all the time.


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## AdironRider (Jun 3, 2014)

Or it would be a farming community like it was and still is. There are also some large industrial facilities west of town that provide many more jobs than a couple serving positions and bike shops. 

If Fruita is your best example (I live out West as well man, spend 3 weeks a year in Moab/Fruita riding) then its definitely not the economic driver everyone claims. Fruita does have a large mtn bike presence, but look at the rest of the place. Its not great.

Most mtn bikers are like me, and I suspect you, where we roll in, give our lodging dollars in the form of a grand ten bucks to the BLM to camp(FEDS, not local b&b's), buy a couple 30 packs and some bike tubes, then roll out.


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## snoseek (Jun 3, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> Or it would be a farming community like it was and still is. There are also some large industrial facilities west of town that provide many more jobs than a couple serving positions and bike shops.
> 
> If Fruita is your best example (I live out West as well man, spend 3 weeks a year in Moab/Fruita riding) then its definitely not the economic driver everyone claims. Fruita does have a large mtn bike presence, but look at the rest of the place. Its not great.




Ok heard but maybe Burke itself is a better example. pretty much everyone in town in summer is there to ride and its because they have a large network of trails AND lift served biking...something for everybody. Well maybe not everyone as its mostly just buff singletrack, unlike the STAB trails which IMO have a better variety (although overall less miles and no lift served). I really think being closer to more major metros and this would make that area very competetive


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## AdironRider (Jun 3, 2014)

I think the NEK has done some great things with the MTB scene, no doubt, but its still not the saving grace economic engine you claim. 

I suspect the college, whatever industry remains in Newport, and other factors drive more economic activity than mtb, even in the summer in the NEK. Mainly the college though. 

Not to say the MTB tourists do absolutely nothing, but its not something a sustainable economy is based on. Food service and retail? Isnt that the problem with our current economic recovery?


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## thetrailboss (Jun 3, 2014)

snoseek said:


> Ok heard but maybe Burke itself is a better example. pretty much everyone in town in summer is there to ride and its because they have a large network of trails AND lift served biking...something for everybody. Well maybe not everyone as its mostly just buff singletrack, unlike the STAB trails which IMO have a better variety (although overall less miles and no lift served). I really think being closer to more major metros and this would make that area very competetive



The lift served at Burke, though cool, is still fairly limited.  And I don't think it's a huge money maker.  I would imagine that this year with the Burke/KT split that the lift served aspect will be flat if not lower.  



AdironRider said:


> I think the NEK has done some great things with the MTB scene, no doubt, but its still not the saving grace economic engine you claim.
> 
> Not to say the MTB tourists do absolutely nothing, but its not something a sustainable economy is based on. Food service and retail? Isnt that the problem with our current economic recovery?



Bingo.  Vermont's problem is that the "blue collar" and middle class jobs are disappearing left and right and are being replaced with (small) retail and low paying tourism jobs.  Those jobs don't pay enough to let one buy a house let alone pay the taxes.  

Burke does indeed love the bikers and their money, but their dollars are only benefitting a few restaurants, campgrounds, grocery stores and gas stations, etc.  They are not really doing much else.  



> I suspect the college, whatever industry remains in Newport, and other factors drive more economic activity than mtb, even in the summer in the NEK. Mainly the college though.



The college does help.  One issue that the VT College System has is that, believe it or not, they get very little state funding.  In fact I think they are the least funded system per capita in the nation.  Imagine what it would be like if LSC had enough funds to meet its potential--especially with some of their programs.

There's not much left in Newport or St. Jay for manufacturing.  Now that Vermont Tap & Die has left Lyndonville, there's not much in Lyndonville either.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 4, 2014)

I wonder what would have happened had Okemo purchased Ascutney.  (or if they ever even entertained the thought).  That would be a pretty compelling "family terrain" oriented product having the trio of Okemo, Ascutney and Sunapee all together and within less than an hour of each other.  Easy access from both the Boston and Hartford/Springfield markets.


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## skiNEwhere (Jun 4, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I wonder what would have happened had Okemo purchased Ascutney.  (or if they ever even entertained the thought).  That would be a pretty compelling "family terrain" oriented product having the trio of Okemo, Ascutney and Sunapee all together and within less than an hour of each other.  Easy access from both the Boston and Hartford/Springfield markets.



Hmmmm..... (Rubs chin)


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## VTKilarney (Jun 4, 2014)

Small ski areas have always struggled and scores upon scores have closed.  What troubles me is that we have recently seen the closure of bigger ski areas like Ascutney and Tenney.  I don't like that trend.  Those hills may not have been the biggest, but it not good to see that amount of terrain go away forever.


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## AdironRider (Jun 4, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> The lift served at Burke, though cool, is still fairly limited.  And I don't think it's a huge money maker.  I would imagine that this year with the Burke/KT split that the lift served aspect will be flat if not lower.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I mention the college primarily because of the reasons you mention, they provide (pure guessing here on the exact number) a couple hundred jobs at real middle class wages, even higher for tenured professors and administration. They live there year round as well.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 4, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> I mention the college primarily because of the reasons you mention, they provide (pure guessing here on the exact number) a couple hundred jobs at real middle class wages, even higher for tenured professors and administration. They live there year round as well.



Indeed.  They are a key employer.


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## mister moose (Jun 4, 2014)

That's sad news.

 I would think the viability of Ascutney rests in not competing directly with Okemo and Killington.  They could never provide the same kind of grooming and snowmaking.  As such, they never, ever, should have put in the high speed quad.  It needed to remain a far cheaper alternative that was open when the weather allowed, not by huge snowmaking expense.  It needed to retain fixed grip lifts.

Ascutney also faced a long term problem that started in the 70's.  Previously, other resorts did not have much advantage in grooming or snowmaking.  As those technologies emerged and grew, the price tag to participate grew and grew.  Bigger resorts drew a lot of traffic away.  Also, as I-91 was completed into the state's interior, the rest of Vermont's roads improved as well.  Rte 100, 103, 9 and 30 are in far better shape now.  This allows shorter driving times to Ascutney's competitors, eroding what was once a large advantage.

I saw a number somewhere that listed Ascutney's snowfall at 80 inches.  What ever the correct number is, it is a lot less than Killington.

Another problem now is that several people overpaid for the resort.  *The value in the mind of the owners and the town is inflated.*  It cannot operate profitably with that high a mortgage and that high of a property tax bill.  Unfortunately, that conclusion will only sink in to the owners and the town too late.

If you could buy the hill and base for a dollar, could you install a few used lifts and run the place profitably?  I bet the answer is yes.  So the question is what is the real value of the area that allows a dependable profit to re-invest, make it through lean years, and pay a return to the investors.


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## Quietman (Jun 4, 2014)

Interesting side note, I would NEVER have guessed who bought Ascutney's lifts. 

newenglandskihistory.com says that it is Pat's Peak.  

_"In late spring 2014, Pats Peak reportedly purchased and removed the remaining lifts at Ascutney, VT, perhaps signalling future lift upgrades"_


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## thetrailboss (Jun 4, 2014)

Quietman said:


> Interesting side note, I would NEVER have guessed who bought Ascutney's lifts.
> 
> newenglandskihistory.com says that it is Pat's Peak.
> 
> _"In late spring 2014, Pats Peak reportedly purchased and removed the remaining lifts at Ascutney, VT, perhaps signalling future lift upgrades"_



Really?


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## AdironRider (Jun 4, 2014)

Why exactly would you not have guessed that. They are pretty similar places for all intensive purposes. 

Not many big dogs are buying decades old fixed grips.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 4, 2014)

Intents and purposes.


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## AdironRider (Jun 4, 2014)

Kinda along the lines of could care less.


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## VTKilarney (Jun 4, 2014)

There's actually vigorous debate about that one.  

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_...irrational_or_ungrammatical_as_you_might.html


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## steamboat1 (Jun 5, 2014)

rip


New Burke Hotel???

No Ascutney's


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## mister moose (Jun 5, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Intents and purposes.


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## xwhaler (Jun 5, 2014)

It is too bad that despite all the infrastructure on site (hotel, condos, not super old lifts) and close to the highway that no one was interested in operating Ascutney as an alternative to Okemo or Sunapee.
I'll remember the 1 day I skied Ascutney back in 2007 as we skied boot deep powder, had the place to ourselves, and the terrain was pretty fun. More Magic style terrain than Okemo or Sunapee.

Always look at Ascutney Peak when I'm in the area and wonder what could have been if that had ever been developed to the top.


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## skiNEwhere (Jun 5, 2014)

I can't help but wonder if the installation of the HSQ sealed their fate, or at least sped it up. It really didn't access any new terrain, and when you got off the lift there were only 2 trail options, a double black or a blue, which as I remember was super icy by noon.

When I was there I remember the HSQ didn't even run that fast, I mentioned this to the liftie at the bottom who told me that they never ran it at top speed to prevent crowding at the top. Sounds like poor planning on managements part. 

I skied ascutney in 2001, I heard that in later years they rarely ran that lift (can anyone confirm this?)I'm not sure if the installation of the HSQ peaked any additional interest, but it almost seemed like management had an "if we build it, they will come" mentality when planning this.


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## 4aprice (Jun 5, 2014)

Ascutney's just not really a good mountain for a ski area.  It's a Monadnock.  As stated it gets much less snow then the Green Mountain spine to its west.  Road improvements have made getting to other areas easier (despite being close to 91 Ascutney was not easy to get to).  To me it lost a lot of its charm with the HSQ addition.  Skiing is consolidating into bigger more concentrated areas and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.   

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## xwhaler (Jun 5, 2014)

When I skied there in '07 the HSQ was running but slowly. The story I heard was that something to do with the electronic signaling equipment was never invested in or in need of repair which prevented the HSQ from running at full speed. 
Amazing when you ride that lift at Crotched now how fast and smooth it is...they have it dialed in.


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## Nick (Jun 5, 2014)

I had this show up in my news feed the other day but forgot to come talk about it. I don't think I"ve ever skied Ascutney. I guess I have this default setting where watching a ski area shut down is kinda sad, but not having skied it I don't really know about it as an area to much. 

I'm guessing because it has trails cut it's probably pretty awesome for the BC guys?


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## thetrailboss (Jun 5, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> When I skied there in '07 the HSQ was running but slowly. The story I heard was that something to do with the electronic signaling equipment was never invested in or in need of repair which prevented the HSQ from running at full speed.
> Amazing when you ride that lift at Crotched now how fast and smooth it is...they have it dialed in.



That's what I heard as well.  They did not spend the extra cash on something to make it operate at full speed.


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## mbedle (Sep 24, 2014)

*Ascutney Mountain*

Not sure if there is already a post on this (assuming there is). If so, sorry. Looks like the town of West Windsor may try to buy the resort to preserve the land. The also want to maintain the biking trails and maybe open the remaining lift. I'm sure its great news for the people that live/own homes on the mountain. 

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=155


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## SIKSKIER (Sep 24, 2014)

There is another thread but its the same one as this.:smash:


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## Smellytele (Sep 24, 2014)

stuttering thread posting


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Not sure if there is already a post on this (assuming there is). If so, sorry. Looks like the town of West Windsor may try to buy the resort to preserve the land. The also want to maintain the biking trails and maybe open the remaining lift. I'm sure its great news for the people that live/own homes on the mountain.
> 
> http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=155



So only one lift remains?  Sad.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

Looks like Pats Peak bought the remaining CTEC Triple chairs.....

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=144

Regrettably, the last lift is on the far left....







http://www.chairlift.org/ascutney.html

A 1970 Hall Double.


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## Smellytele (Sep 24, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Looks like Pats Peak bought the remaining CTEC Triple chairs.....
> 
> http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=144
> 
> ...


Trying to see what Pats plans are for the triples.


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## tree_skier (Sep 24, 2014)

Looks like its been a slow sad death to a place I called my home Mountain from 67-78


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 24, 2014)

Skied Ascutney a few times, wasn't my favorite but I did enjoy myself. Always sad to see a resort close though  The sale of these lifts will make it that much harder to ever find a buyer


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## Nick (Sep 24, 2014)

I know I skied it but I really can't recall it that well. I think they still paraglide from there.


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## hammer (Sep 24, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Trying to see what Pats plans are for the triples.


Could they be used to replace the existing doubles?  Just hope that they aren't slower...


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## bobbutts (Sep 24, 2014)

The double and the trails it services are better than they look on the map there, but it's not much of a pod.  The triple chair with midstation was the right lift for this hill.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

bobbutts said:


> The double and the trails it services are better than they look on the map there, but it's not much of a pod.  The triple chair with midstation was the right lift for this hill.



Agreed that it's unfortunate that the lift that gave them the best chance of reopening (ever) is now gone.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 24, 2014)

I hate to say it, but I don't see how Ascutney could have ever been profitable. 

4 hours from NYC, Stratton is about the same distance and offers more. 
2.25 hr's from Boston, have a few areas in MA and NH in that distance with more options. Driving 20 minutes further coming from Boston, you could hit killington.
Albany, NY closer to Mt. Snow
Springfield, MA about the same distance from Mt. Snow and Ascutney. 

IIRC, Ascutney had low snowfall compared to nearby neighbors. Not to mention, not having a high-speed lift for a long time may have steered some people away. Then when they did install the HSQ, they didn't get more skier visits so what they were hoping to become an asset turned into their biggest liability. 

That trail at the top got super icy as well, to the point where they probably lost people coming back for a second time. 

They had some good terrain, but nothing overly difficult. If they had a chance in surviving, I think they would've had to accomplish it by expanding their marketing and adding off the hill activities. Because there location was about as bad as it gets.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I hate to say it, but I don't see how Ascutney could have ever been profitable.
> 
> 4 hours from NYC, Stratton is about the same distance and offers more.
> 2.25 hr's from Boston, have a few areas in MA and NH in that distance with more options. Driving 20 minutes further coming from Boston, you could hit killington.
> ...



Agree on all points; add that their ownership and management were not very good at all.  They had a lot of turnover.  Burned a lot of bridges.  I've raised this point regarding a mountain near and dear to me that is up Interstate 91 from Ascutney whose management and ownership is the same if not worse than Ascutney's.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 24, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Agree on all points; add that their ownership and management were not very good at all.  They had a lot of turnover.  Burned a lot of bridges.  I've raised this point regarding a mountain near and dear to me that is up Interstate 91 from Ascutney whose management and ownership is the same if not worse than Ascutney's.



I'm assuming  you're talking about Burke.

A general trend I've noticed over the years is that it is hard to generate large profit margins without generating tourism revenue. It is even harder to break even if in attempts to generate tourism revenue you piss off the locals. Granted, locals are NEVER happy; they're either pissed off or content, but the minute you alienate enough of your local base, is when you go belly up.

This belongs in the Burke thread, but I thought I remember hearing they had like 4 different owners in 20 years. While the management may be taking what most people perceive to be the wrong course of action, I think anyone from a business point of view should at least realize that the previous business model wasn't working and something needed to be changed.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I'm assuming  you're talking about Burke.
> 
> A general trend I've noticed over the years is that it is hard to generate large profit margins without generating tourism revenue. It is even harder to break even if in attempts to generate tourism revenue you piss off the locals. Granted, locals are NEVER happy; they're either pissed off or content, but the minute you alienate enough of your local base, is when you go belly up.
> 
> This belongs in the Burke thread, but I thought I remember hearing they had like 4 different owners in 20 years. While the management may be taking what most people perceive to be the wrong course of action, I think anyone from a business point of view should at least realize that the previous business model wasn't working and something needed to be changed.



Your assessment is fairly accurate.  In terms of ownership since 1993 or so for Burke:

Current ownership (since 2012): enough said.
Ownership Group "A":  2005-2012.  Ran into the real estate bubble.  Was doing fine, but decided to sell to cut losses.  
Ownership Group "B":  2000-2005.  Temporary ownership--"Guardian Angel".  Management kept things going.  Community very invested.
Ownership Group "C":  1995-2000.  Group of four or five international investors that ran out of money.  Weather, economy to blame.
Ownership Group "D":  1991-1995.  Bought mountain to launder money.  (Enough said).  

So yes some of what they were doing "didn't work", some was just bad luck I guess.


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## catsup948 (Sep 24, 2014)

My last memory of Ascutney was in 2008.  Warren Miller show gave us three possible Saturday appreciation days and we picked a day with a foot of fresh the night before!  
 Xwhaler was there with me I think! Awesome day.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

I regret not skiing there at least once.....


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 24, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I regret not skiing there at least once.....



The HSQ really did them in. They only had 2 trails at the top, one of which was a double black. 

It was very slick by 11. They had to start running the lift at nearly half speed, so they essentially had a multi million dollar lift that was in essence a fixed grip quad. 

They were going to add another trail at the summit but went under before that happened

It was enjoyable but nothing really stuck out, you didn't miss a ton


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> The HSQ really did them in. They only had 2 trails at the top, one of which was a double black.
> 
> It was very slick by 11. They had to start running the lift at nearly half speed, so they essentially had a multi million dollar lift that was in essence a fixed grip quad.
> 
> ...



The HSQ was run at half-speed because they did not have enough money to install the sensors/safety equipment to run it full speed!


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 24, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> The HSQ was run at half-speed because they did not have enough money to install the sensors/safety equipment to run it full speed!



That's only half the story. One of my roommates in college worked there and told me that. They were probably too embarrassed to admit that they installed a HSQ with a lone blue to serve it


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## xwhaler (Sep 24, 2014)

catsup948 said:


> My last memory of Ascutney was in 2008.  Warren Miller show gave us three possible Saturday appreciation days and we picked a day with a foot of fresh the night before!
> Xwhaler was there with me I think! Awesome day.



Awesome day.  It was actually a Sunday but only I remember those small details haha.  Some cool terrain there


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## snoseek (Sep 24, 2014)

I assume they're keeping the chair to run lift serviced mountain biking.

Trails are already in place and going in at a rapid rate, not profitable like skiing but brings people into town. Trail system gaining popularity fast, closer than KT to many and better variety/tech.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

snoseek said:


> I assume they're keeping the chair to run lift serviced mountain biking.
> 
> Trails are already in place and going in at a rapid rate, not profitable like skiing but brings people into town. Trail system gaining popularity fast, closer than KT to many and better variety/tech.



Bummer that they lost the summit triple.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## snoseek (Sep 24, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Bummer that they lost the summit triple.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


No doubt, may it serve crotched well. For actual biking purposes I think it would be much too steep up there anyhow however. 

I don't see them pulling any business at all skiing off that double. Plus its REALLY old and beat up.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 24, 2014)

snoseek said:


> No doubt, may it serve crotched well. For actual biking purposes I think it would be much too steep up there anyhow however.
> 
> I don't see them pulling any business at all skiing off that double. Plus its REALLY old and beat up.



The HSQ is at Crotched; the triple is at Pat's Peak now.  

I thought that the double looked really old and rough.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 25, 2014)

Never skied there with the quad but skied there several times before. I thought it was a pretty good mountain. You did have to pick your days though. Low base elevation & not in the snow belt.


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## Newpylong (Oct 3, 2014)

http://www.vnews.com/home/13787887-95/west-windsor-may-buy-resort


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## billski (Oct 3, 2014)

Wow.  $600 K is short money for 470 acres!   How did they get such a price?


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## Tin (Oct 3, 2014)

The quad from there has been rough for Crotched, always stopping and I have been there 4-5 days and it has never started. It has still been great for the mountain though. Hopefully the triples don't cause issues for Pats.


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## Quietman (Oct 3, 2014)

Tin said:


> The quad from there has been rough for Crotched, always stopping and I have been there 4-5 days and it has never started. It has still been great for the mountain though. Hopefully the triples don't cause issues for Pats.



Crotched did some electronic repairs on the Rocket in early March that seems to have solved a lot of the stopping issues. I experienced no mechanical stops when I was there the last 3 weekends in March.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2014)

Tin said:


> The quad from there has been rough for Crotched, always stopping and I have been there 4-5 days and it has never started. It has still been great for the mountain though. Hopefully the triples don't cause issues for Pats.


Yup...nice when it's running but the lines can get long when it's down.  Didn't it have issues when it was at Ascutney?


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## Tin (Oct 3, 2014)

Quietman said:


> Crotched did some electronic repairs on the Rocket in early March that seems to have solved a lot of the stopping issues. I experienced no mechanical stops when I was there the last 3 weekends in March.



Good news. The two best snow days last year the thing was down. Looking forward to some West Ledge action again this year.


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## VTKilarney (Oct 4, 2014)

billski said:


> Wow.  $600 K is short money for 470 acres!   How did they get such a price?


The land isn't really good for much.  Good luck trying to do anything commercially viable with it thanks to Vermont's environmental regulations.  Even logging it would have been extremely difficult.  But the state will gladly tax a private owner who owns the land - they just won't let them use the land.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 4, 2014)

I agree.  Might make a good sheep farm, but that's about it.


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## HowieT2 (Oct 4, 2014)

I haven't been there, but I hear the mtn biking is good.  Perhaps someone can make something of that.


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## snoseek (Oct 4, 2014)

HowieT2 said:


> I haven't been there, but I hear the mtn biking is good.  Perhaps someone can make something of that.



Yep, skiings done I bet....mountain bike scene is growing fast, some of Vt's finest IMO


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## HowieT2 (Oct 5, 2014)

snoseek said:


> Yep, skiings done I bet....mountain bike scene is growing fast, some of Vt's finest IMO



The new machine built flow trails are like groomers.  Much less intimidating, challenging than old school trails.  Could be a way to mainstream the sport.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 15, 2014)

Looks like the sale to the Town is going to happen.  

http://www.wcax.com/story/26792019/vt-town-agrees-to-buy-former-ski-area


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## billski (Oct 15, 2014)

RIP Ascutney.

We had a good four years taking our toddlers there for 3-day weekends.  It was a great value, slopeside lodging by the beginner hill - perfect for toddling and handing off the kids quickly.  We moved on after the oldest hit about 10 YO, first to Bretton Woods, then to Cannon.   The only real downside for a family that puts the kids to bed at 8 was the limited menu choices.  We could have cooked, I think, but we are lazy after skiing all day!


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## thetrailboss (Nov 7, 2014)

For anyone interested, Ascutney Timeshares are now selling for $1.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snowdance-V...91268063326?pt=US_Lodging&hash=item43d0edf05e


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## Smellytele (Nov 7, 2014)

Heard Pats peak had bought a lot of the their snow making equipment and turned around and sold some if not all of it to Wildcat.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 8, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Heard Pats peak had bought a lot of the their snow making equipment and turned around and sold some if not all of it to Wildcat.



I think they bought the lifts as well. Smart move to resell what was usable.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I think they bought the lifts as well. Smart move to resell what was usable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Yes they bought 3 lifts they may have resold some of those already. I know they were keeping one of the triples


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## deadheadskier (Nov 8, 2014)

Hopefully it's a faster fixed grip lift and they can use it to replace Hurricane.  

I really only enjoy skiing at Pat's when the Vortex lift is running.  Less run out and much faster than the other summit lifts.


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Hopefully it's a faster fixed grip lift and they can use it to replace Hurricane.
> 
> I really only enjoy skiing at Pat's when the Vortex lift is running.  Less run out and much faster than the other summit lifts.



Word was that they might replace the peak double


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## thetrailboss (Nov 8, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Word was that they might replace the peak double



Makes sense


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## crank (Nov 8, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> For anyone interested, Ascutney Timeshares are now selling for $1.00
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snowdance-V...91268063326?pt=US_Lodging&hash=item43d0edf05e




We went there for a weekend back in the late 90's on one of those deals where you get lodging and skiing for a few days for just $99 but you have to subject yourself to an hours worth of  a very high pressure sales pitch.  "This deal only available to you if you sign now."  We resisted but had a great weekend for all the other hours.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 8, 2014)

crank said:


> We went there for a weekend back in the late 90's on one of those deals where you get lodging and skiing for a few days for just $99 but you have to subject yourself to an hours worth of  a very high pressure sales pitch.  "This deal only available to you if you sign now."  We resisted but had a great weekend for all the other hours.



Just $1.00 now!


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## twinplanx (Nov 9, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Just $1.00 now!



I looked at the link, but what exactly do you get for a dollar?

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk


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## prsboogie (Nov 9, 2014)

You get to assume the original owners week and their maintenance fees for the year. I bought one at Attitash Mountain Village on eBay for a buck. Week 5 February 1-8 every year and the fees are cheaper than what I could rent a long weekend for.


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## crank (Nov 9, 2014)

prsboogie said:


> You get to assume the original owners week and their maintenance fees for the year. I bought one at Attitash Mountain Village on eBay for a buck. Week 5 February 1-8 every year and the fees are cheaper than what I could rent a long weekend for.




Yeah when we got home I looked into the timeshare resale market and it is way cheaper to buy a timeshare from someone who did succumb to the sales pitch than it is to buy from the timeshare developer.


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## twinplanx (Nov 9, 2014)

prsboogie said:


> You get to assume the original owners week and their maintenance fees for the year. I bought one at Attitash Mountain Village on eBay for a buck. Week 5 February 1-8 every year and the fees are cheaper than what I could rent a long weekend for.



So, even though the lifts are no longer in place, this has the potential to be a decent base camp... I'm still somewhat confused as to the available dates. The first page the link directs to has dates available thru February, but in the description only dates thru December are listed :-(

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk


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## prsboogie (Nov 9, 2014)

I would contact them directly for availability


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## thetrailboss (Nov 9, 2014)

prsboogie said:


> I would contact them directly for availability



I'm pretty sure that you will have no problem finding the dates that you want.  I don't think there is much of a demand for timeshares at a NELSAP area.


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## VTKilarney (Nov 9, 2014)

Any idea of the trade value?


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## crank (Nov 9, 2014)

I know that condos on the hill and house sright next to the hill are very affordable right now.  With the mountain biking trails and the state park and the opportunity for skinning and skiing and the easy access from 91 t is not a terrible location at any time of the year.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 3, 2015)

Bump.  The latest.  Looks like they want to revive it.  

http://digital.vpr.net/post/west-wi...ail&utm_term=0_09c24b4034-738871c750-26269490


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## manhattanskier (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for updating!


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## thetrailboss (Jun 3, 2015)

Another good article on Ascutney:

http://backcountrymagazine.com/stories/ascutney-ascension/


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## snoseek (Jun 3, 2015)

Pictured in that article is Jim and man is he getting things done in the trail building dept. Super busy nice guy,and constantly doing quality trail work.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 10, 2015)

Just got this:

http://www.saminfo.com/news/committee-seeks-run-mt-ascutney-non-profit

Too bad the lifts are gone.


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## snoseek (Jul 10, 2015)

New trails climbing up the ski area side are a blast!


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## marcski (Jul 10, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Just got this:
> 
> http://www.saminfo.com/news/committee-seeks-run-mt-ascutney-non-profit
> 
> Too bad the lifts are gone.


Kind of scary to sell it after the town bought it and Ascutney's tough history. If it is a non-profit that wants to buy it. why not let them lease the operations while the town keeps title and let the new non- profit invest the capital they would have used to buy the property to buy a lift?


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## Newpylong (Jul 11, 2015)

They're out of their mind trying to put lifts back in. Conserve it for low impact use but that's it.

If people are looking for an affordable lift served venue they have Whaleback up the road which has lights and arguably  better terrain even at less than half the vertical.


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## skiNEwhere (Jul 11, 2015)

Let's be honest here. Who would regularly ski Ascutney if it reopened? I skied there for a few days after they installed the HSQ. Fun little ski area, but there's other ski areas that are closer and get more snow too.

If they wanna be successful they need to find a niche market to cater to. As much as I hate seeing small ski areas close, I don't see them having a sustainable business model. 

.02¢


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2015)

marcski said:


> Kind of scary to sell it after the town bought it and Ascutney's tough history. If it is a non-profit that wants to buy it. why not let them lease the operations while the town keeps title and let the new non- profit invest the capital they would have used to buy the property to buy a lift?



It's not clear as to if the town would sell it. Sounds like the nonprofit would manage it and the other public land.


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## JoeB-Z (Jul 11, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Just got this:
> 
> http://www.saminfo.com/news/committee-seeks-run-mt-ascutney-non-profit
> 
> Too bad the lifts are gone.



Somethings not quite right about the article. The fundraising by the Trust for Public Land is complete. $250K from the public plus a match for a total of $500K.

One lift is there but has been said to be in bad shape.


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## marcski (Jul 11, 2015)

JoeB-Z said:


> Somethings not quite right about the article. The fundraising by the Trust for Public Land is complete. $250K from the public plus a match for a total of $500K.
> 
> One lift is there but has been said to be in bad shape.


And the artlicle makes it seems as though the town has yet to take it over (and has only raised 50% of the cash). I thought it was already a done deal with the town.


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## manhattanskier (Oct 15, 2015)

UPDATE: http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=322


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## wa-loaf (Oct 15, 2015)

Friends just sold their condo there and were happy to get out. Seems most of them are being used for low income housing now.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 26, 2015)

Bump.  There were boots on the ground this weekend beginning for a February opening......of a free rope tow.  

http://www.wcax.com/category/166239/video-landing-page?clipId=11949819&autostart=true


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## manhattanskier (Oct 27, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Bump.  There were boots on the ground this weekend beginning for a February opening......of a free rope tow.
> 
> http://www.wcax.com/category/166239/video-landing-page?clipId=11949819&autostart=true



Baby steps...


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## thetrailboss (Oct 27, 2015)

manhattanskier said:


> Baby steps...



Exactly. So sad that the Plausteiners ruined it


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## mbedle (Oct 29, 2015)

How exactly did the Plausteiners ruin this place?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 29, 2015)

For one, over invested in the High Speed Quad before snowmaking infrastructure.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> For one, over invested in the High Speed Quad before snowmaking infrastructure.



That and burning bridges with everyone in the community.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 29, 2015)

Yes, they were inexperienced when they bought it and overly egotistical in ways that pissed off locals.  Sound familiar?


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## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Yes, they were inexperienced when they bought it and overly egotistical in ways that pissed off locals.  Sound familiar?



You said it...not me!    I've drawn the unfortunate analogy a few times.


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## Abubob (Dec 16, 2015)

Article in the Valley news today: http://www.vnews.com/news/newsletter/20058753-95/ascutney-mountain-resort-sold-conserved


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## crank (Dec 16, 2015)

Question: would a condo or house at Ascutney be a good investment?


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## wa-loaf (Dec 16, 2015)

crank said:


> Question: would a condo or house at Ascutney be a good investment?



Probably not. I know someone who just sold theirs. They said the town is using a lot of them for subsidized housing.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 17, 2015)

wa-loaf said:


> Probably not. I know someone who just sold theirs. They said the town is using a lot of them for subsidized housing.


Ascutney still pretty far away from other ski areas, so if you are looking to pick one up for skiing, it's probably not a great idea.


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## Smellytele (Dec 17, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Ascutney still pretty far away from other ski areas, so if you are looking to pick one up for skiing, it's probably not a great idea.



30-35 min to Okemo


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## crank (Dec 17, 2015)

Went mountain biking there a couple summers back.  Trails were fun and I see them getting better and more extensive.  Plus great BC skiing options as long as there is snow.  

I am not seriously thinking about buying there, but I think they have probably hit bottom and will begin to crawl back up in value.

Went to Ascutney about 17 years ago on one of those super cheap 3 nights in a condo but you have to attend our time share pitch deals.  Ex wanted to buy.  Glad I resisted.


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## Smellytele (Dec 17, 2015)

http://www.snocountry.com/en/news/e...r-acquires-mount-ascutney-rope-tow-ready-soon

"
In anticipation of the land purchase, Mount Ascutney Outdoors has nearly completed a 1,000-foot rope tow for this winter, and hopes it will be ready for Christmas vacation. The rope tow will be free for anyone to use.
The rope tow will access at least three wide groomed runs, and will also provide access to the mountain’s backcountry ski trails."


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## thetrailboss (Dec 19, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> http://www.snocountry.com/en/news/e...r-acquires-mount-ascutney-rope-tow-ready-soon
> 
> "
> In anticipation of the land purchase, Mount Ascutney Outdoors has nearly completed a 1,000-foot rope tow for this winter, and hopes it will be ready for Christmas vacation. The rope tow will be free for anyone to use.
> The rope tow will access at least three wide groomed runs, and will also provide access to the mountain’s backcountry ski trails."



Better than nothing. But still a far cry from what was there. It's a real shame those lifts were removed. I believe the double chair is still there. I think it needs a lot of work though.


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## mlctvt (Dec 20, 2015)

The new Ascutney trails website is up.

Fatbike fest is Feb 6

Looks like a pretty good trail network is already mapped out 
Maybe we'll stop here to check it out on the way to Kingdom Trails next year.


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## Smellytele (Dec 21, 2015)

mlctvt said:


> The new Ascutney trails website is up.
> 
> Fatbike fest is Feb 6
> 
> ...



much closer for a large amount of population. If the word gets out and the trails are as good or comparable to KT then this could cut into their clientèle.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 21, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> much closer for a large amount of population. If the word gets out and the trails are as good or comparable to KT then this could cut into their clientèle.



Agreed.  Ascutney is convenient to Boston and New York City.  If they do it correctly it could have a real impact on Kingdom Trails, especially since the Canadians have a horrible exchange rate right now.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 4, 2016)

Almost ready

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=369


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## snoseek (Jun 10, 2016)

Here's a pic of vermonts hottest new rope tow

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


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## snoseek (Jun 10, 2016)

snoseek said:


> Here's a pic of vermonts hottest new rope tow
> 
> Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk








Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


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## manhattanskier (Jun 14, 2016)

So hot, and seriously a great start


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## tree_skier (Jun 22, 2016)

I would had put the main slope T-Bar back in


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## tree_skier (Jun 22, 2016)

That would had given them a lot of ski area for little lift investment.  

Main slope
West Slope
Nine Lives
lower Millers Mile
42 street
lower 5th Ave

and would had been a decent place to ski


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## raisingarizona (Jun 22, 2016)

Skin it to win it. A managed hiking/skinning area sounds really cool to me. 

The only problem I have with rope tows is that they destroy gloves.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 22, 2016)

tree_skier said:


> That would had given them a lot of ski area for little lift investment.
> 
> Main slope
> West Slope
> ...



Yeah a T-Bar would be nice 


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## Newpylong (Jun 23, 2016)

They are looking at another surface lift - but I don't think they are far enough along to do more than look at it yet.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 25, 2016)

http://vtdigger.org/2016/08/23/hartland-man-seeking-rename-mount-ascutney/


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 25, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> http://vtdigger.org/2016/08/23/hartland-man-seeking-rename-mount-ascutney/



I vote for "Mt Redskins".


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## thetrailboss (Aug 25, 2016)

I guess the extermination business is slow.....


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## manhattanskier (Sep 1, 2016)

Thrilling... 

lol we need the ski season to start and for Peak resorts to buy it and revamp it lol


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## thetrailboss (Dec 23, 2016)

Bump.  

Good news: the eyesore lodge has been sold to the non-profit who will demolish it.  

Bad news:  MFW has revoked the license for a portion of the land that the non-profits trails cross.  

http://vtsports.com/mfw-revokes-ascutney-permits/


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## Zermatt (Dec 23, 2016)

Annual snowfall at Ascutney? It's in a rain shadow from the Greens and relatively low elevation. 


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## deadheadskier (Dec 23, 2016)

I'd guess in the 120" range

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## snoseek (Dec 23, 2016)

He's closing access to a small piece of the novice mtb trails unless someone forks up the 14k to pay his back taxes. There's really only one climbing trail that anyone will really miss. The better novice stuff is over by the state park anyhow.


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## Abubob (Jun 5, 2017)

*New Lodge for Ascutney*

http://www.vnews.com/Ascutney-Outdo...n-footprint-of-burned-out-base-lodge-10449315

For those that don't wish to log on to the Valley News:

By Patrick O’Grady
Valley News Correspondent Monday, June 05, 2017

Brownsville — Ascutney Outdoors, the nonprofit in charge of managing the former ski property and abutting town forest, is finalizing plans for a new building on the site of the former base lodge. The structure will become the center for AO activities and other functions.

With construction expected to start in late summer or early fall, AO will take another big step toward the organization’s goals of creating recreational and cultural opportunities to fill the economic void left when the ski resort closed and drawing outdoor enthusiasts and others from well beyond the immediate area.

“We are just thrilled with the progress we have made and are looking forward to getting the building up,” AO board member Glenn Seward said. “We want to keep the momentum going.”
Seward said they are working with an architectural firm to “fine tune” the design of the building, which will be constructed on the foundation of the old base lodge. The lodge was destroyed in a January 2015 fire and the site was cleaned up over the winter, including asbestos removal.

“The footprint is 1,800 square feet but we will have two floors and possibly a mezzanine so it will probably be close to 4,000 square feet total,” Seward said.

The goal is to have the “shell” of the post and beam center, including roof, doors and windows, finished before winter. Seward said the bottom floor likely will be office space, storage and maybe retail for something like a bike shop.

The main floor will feature a cathedral ceiling and has an open space concept that could be used for any number of events.

“It will be for a broad range of activities for the whole community,” Seward said, noting that much of what has been accomplished thus far could not have been done without strong community support. “It will be a focal point for Ascutney Outdoor activities and for special functions.”

Private parties, weddings, musical performances or public talks are just some of the events Seward said could be held on the main floor.

The materials for the buildings are being donated by Davis Frame in Claremont, a maker of post and beam homes, Seward said.

Ascutney Outdoors board member Jim Lyall did the initial design.

Seward said they have raised about $200,000, mainly through donations, and that will be enough to complete phase I of the building, including permitting, engineering and architectural services and mechanical and electrical work.

Another roughly $150,000 had been raised to demolish and clean up the lodge. The funds raised included a grant of $30,000 from the Southern Windsor Regional Planning Commission for asbestos removal.

The ski resort closed in 2010 and all hope of seeing it reopen vanished when the former owner began selling off equipment, including the lifts. With the nonprofit Trust for Public Land taking the lead role, voters approved a Selectboard recommendation in October 2014 to buy the resort property. A combination of town funding, private donations and grants raised the roughly $900,000 for the purchase and other expenses.

The purchase came with a conservation easement on the property and, combined with the abutting town forest, created about 1,600 acres for recreational activities including skiing, hiking and mountain biking.

Ascutney Outdoors signed a lease agreement with the town to manage the property.
Seward said they are ready to file their Act 250 permit with the state for the building and have a site plan that includes 25 parking spaces.

Besides the new building, Seward said they are working on preparing permits to install a 600-foot tubing lift to go with the small rope tow that is used for skiing.
“It is a great location,” Seward said about the lift.

They also are in the permitting phase for work on recreational trails. Right now there are about 30 miles of trails on the town forest and ski property.

Once the building shell is finished, interior work will proceed, hopefully with the help of volunteers, Seward said. Completion of the building will depend on the capital campaign for fundraising, which has just started, he added.

_Patrick O’Grady can be reached pogclmt@gmail.com._


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## thetrailboss (Jun 6, 2017)

Very nice.  A silver lining to an otherwise sad story.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 17, 2018)

https://anrweb.vt.gov/PubDocs/ANR/P...ion Documents/010_VCGI Map_T-bar location.pdf

https://anrweb.vt.gov/PubDocs/ANR/P...EY T_BAR 071518 PLAN_PRO REV 1 DT GRADING.pdf


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