# Cars suck



## Geoff (Nov 9, 2010)

My VW is at the dealer getting a 40,000 mile service.   The transmission service for the DSG transmission and the brake line flush ain't gonna be cheap.

I was driving the Mountaineer to the VW dealer yesterday while a friend was driving the GTI.   The "service engine soon" light started flashing.   It's running a little rough and has the symptoms of oxygen sensor, PCV valve, MAF sensor, or a bad vacuum hose.


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## Puck it (Nov 9, 2010)

Geoff said:


> My VW is at the dealer getting a 40,000 mile service. The transmission service for the DSG transmission and the brake line flush ain't gonna be cheap.
> 
> I was driving the Mountaineer to the VW dealer yesterday while a friend was driving the GTI. The "service engine soon" light started flashing. It's running a little rough and has the symptoms of oxygen sensor, PCV valve, MAF sensor, or a bad vacuum hose.


 

My son's Liberty Renegade was losing coolant and there was no signs of it on the floor.  This could be real bad.  It is under the 100k powertrain so I brought it to the stealership just in case. It was the radiator and that cost $300 for the part and $300 for labor. They did replace the water pump under warranty and the right rear bearing and rebuilt the rear diff also.  However when taking apart the rear brakes to replace bearing. The brake pad which had about 10% left fell apart.  Another $180 for the read pads along with the warranty deductible of $100.  Grand total $815.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 9, 2010)

necessary evil they are.....


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## thetrailboss (Nov 9, 2010)

Another reason why I don't drive a VW.  Get a Honda.


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## SkiDork (Nov 9, 2010)

I just got ass raped on a new water pump and actuator door for the drivers side heating vents (blowing cold).  I'll also need new AC compressor come springtime (it blew up, had them just cut off the belt for now) .


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 9, 2010)

had the quattro in for the 80k service, brakes etc....$3500 out the door....at my indy shop, guy used to work at audi...


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## o3jeff (Nov 9, 2010)

I picked up a used Acura 3 weeks ago and noticed has a slight vibration around 70-75 with the new tires they put on. They rebalanced the tires and told me its all set, still vibrates. Brought it back and they replaced the tires and said that fixed it, well it still vibrates I dropped it off Saturday and told them to keep it until they fix it and also to take it on a test drive before saying they fixed it.


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## o3jeff (Nov 9, 2010)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> had the quattro in for the 80k service, brakes etc....$3500 out the door....at my indy shop, guy used to work at audi...



Wtf do they do at a 80k service that cost $3500?


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## hammer (Nov 9, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Another reason why I don't drive a VW.  Get a Honda.


After going through repairs on a Toyota and Subaru I realized that,  while some cars are definitely better than others, no car is  bullet-proof.

Will be taking my Volvo S40 in for its 22.5K service tomorrow.  Basically it's just an oil change and re-set of the reminder.  Don't know what the cost is because it's part of the maintenance plan that was included, but I do pay for the additional cost of full synthetic oil.  I also have a problem with one of the brake lights that aren't user-replaceable.  Glad for the warranty...for now.


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## WJenness (Nov 9, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> Wtf do they do at a 80k service that cost $3500?



Going to guess (being an Audi guy myself):

Timing Belt (you're (SKIQUATTRO I mean) the 3.0 right?)
Water Pump
Thermostat (since you're in there anyway)
Brake Fluid Flush
Whatever else needed doing...

How do your Control Arms look?

I'm getting to the point where I want to replace my CAs and TREs soon... (125k)... They aren't bad, but I'd like to tighten up the steering some... Also considering new struts / springs.

-w


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## wa-loaf (Nov 9, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> I picked up a used Acura 3 weeks ago and noticed has a slight vibration around 70-75 with the new tires they put on. They rebalanced the tires and told me its all set, still vibrates. Brought it back and they replaced the tires and said that fixed it, well it still vibrates I dropped it off Saturday and told them to keep it until they fix it and also to take it on a test drive before saying they fixed it.



Alignment?



o3jeff said:


> Wtf do they do at a 80k service that cost $3500?



Yeah?


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## hammer (Nov 9, 2010)

o3jeff said:


> I picked up a used Acura 3 weeks ago and noticed has a slight vibration around 70-75 with the new tires they put on. They rebalanced the tires and told me its all set, still vibrates. Brought it back and they replaced the tires and said that fixed it, well it still vibrates I dropped it off Saturday and told them to keep it until they fix it and also to take it on a test drive before saying they fixed it.


I have vibration on my Highlander at or above 70 as well.  Car's due for a tire rotation and balance so I'm hoping that will fix the problem.  For now I just take it as a reminder to not go too fast...


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## wa-loaf (Nov 9, 2010)

WJenness said:


> Going to guess (being an Audi guy myself):
> 
> Timing Belt (you're (SKIQUATTRO I mean) the 3.0 right?)
> Water Pump
> ...



My buddy just traded in his S4 for an Outback XT.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 9, 2010)

My Outback has about 86,000 on it now and the most expensive service was around $600 because there was some brake work that needed to be done. My Timing belt was replaced under warranty at 60k, so that's good till 160k now. Knock on wood ...


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## deadheadskier (Nov 9, 2010)

Just turned 123K on my Hyundai Sonata.  Only repairs needed have been an ABS sensor and power steering pump, both covered under warranty.  The later occured at 103K miles and they still did it free.  Dealer just filled out the report that the car had 98K miles on it.  

Other than that, it's just been oil changes, tires and one set each front and rear pads.  

I'm interested in a VW sportwagen TDI when I replace this car for the wagon practicality, exceptional mileage and 'fun' factor, but it will depend on what I read about the 09s when I'm ready to replace this car in 2-3 years.  Hard to really think about replacing this car though when it's been pretty much problem free since I bought it.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 9, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> My Outback has about 86,000 on it now and the most expensive service was around $600 because there was some brake work that needed to be done. My Timing belt was replaced under warranty at 60k, so that's good till 160k now. Knock on wood ...



timing belts have always been head scratcher for me.  What good reason is there to build a car with a belt anymore?  Plenty of cars come with timing chains that never need to be replaced.


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## hammer (Nov 9, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> My Outback has about 86,000 on it now and the most expensive service was around $600 because there was some brake work that needed to be done. My Timing belt was replaced under warranty at 60k, so that's good till 160k now. Knock on wood ...


Is it normal to need a timing belt so soon or did you have other symptoms?

Just had timing belt work done on my Toyota, second replacement at 180K...with other stuff that was done "because it was open" the bill came to about $900.  Wish I didn't have to do it but it was due and the first symptom of a problem would have been a trashed engine. :roll:


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## mondeo (Nov 9, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> timing belts have always been head scratcher for me. What good reason is there to build a car with a belt anymore? Plenty of cars come with timing chains that never need to be replaced.


Cost. It's much cheaper to put in a belt than a chain.


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## wa-loaf (Nov 9, 2010)

hammer said:


> Is it normal to need a timing belt so soon or did you have other symptoms?
> 
> Just had timing belt work done on my Toyota, second replacement at 180K...with other stuff that was done "because it was open" the bill came to about $900.  Wish I didn't have to do it but it was due and the first symptom of a problem would have been a trashed engine. :roll:



No, its supposed to be at 100k on the Outback. I had it in for 60k service (at 59k in case there was warranty stuff) and they noticed a small oil leak. Opened it up and saw some wear on the timing belt while they were there and replaced it all under warranty.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 9, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Cost. It's much cheaper to put in a belt than a chain.



seems odd to me then that value based brands such as Hyundai have chains in all their cars


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## gmcunni (Nov 9, 2010)

thanks for the reminder. we inherited a 97 Camry from my mother-in-law that my son will be driving. need to have it checked (brakes are soft) before we turn it over to him.  tho it only has 70K miles on it i'm expecting a hefty bill to get it fixed up.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 9, 2010)

had all the 80k stuff done, needed all new plugs, some tubes/hoses were shot, brakes and rotors, switch for the trunk latch, some other stuff that needed fixing as well.....running great....


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## WJenness (Nov 9, 2010)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> had all the 80k stuff done, needed all new plugs, some tubes/hoses were shot, brakes and rotors, switch for the trunk latch, some other stuff that needed fixing as well.....running great....



It's an '02 3.0 IIRC, right?

-w


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## Glenn (Nov 9, 2010)

I just had a drag link end on the Jeep replaced...and the rear diff cover re-RTV'd. I hate paying for stuff that I know I can do. But I just don't have the time. I did do all the brakes on my own awhile back, so that saved some money. 

Some day, I'd love to have a garage with a lift. That would make life 10x easier. 

$3500 for the Audi service is pricey! Hell, I had a new (used) 3.0 V6 put in our A6 for $500 less.  ;-)


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 9, 2010)

2002 1.8t avant, sport pkg


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## Riverskier (Nov 9, 2010)

Not big on service myself....

2005 Honda Civic with 101,000 miles. Tires, oil, and a new battery are it so far. Car still stops, so I am happy with the breaks. Thinking about replacing the timing belt though, so it doesn't snap and kill the engine.


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## Geoff (Nov 9, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Another reason why I don't drive a VW.  Get a Honda.



Yeah, but then I'd have to drive a Honda every day.   No thanks.

My "Cars suck" thing is referring to my Mountaineer.   It's my winter beater and mostly only goes from my condo to the ski area parking lot most days and to the beach or dump in the summer.   500 really nasty miles per winter that I really don't want to subject my daily driver to.   It had a 100K extended warranty so it never cost me much of anything to run.   I had a huge amount of work done to it at 99K miles that didn't cost me anything.   It now has 107,000 miles.  Nothing wears out but the sensors and rubber parts die from sitting around.


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## smitty77 (Nov 9, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> seems odd to me then that value based brands such as Hyundai have chains in all their cars



Belts are also used because they are quieter than chains, or so I've been told.  I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Hyundai backs their with a 100k warranty, so my guess is they're trying to avoid potential conflicts of a "wearable item" (the belt) breaking at 80k and blowing the motor. I can just hear a class action lawsuit developing over that one.

They're also trying to build a reputation of quality.  My dad has had one for 5 years now and has had no issues to speak of.  Considering he paid under $14k for the car, I'd say he's way ahead of Honda and Toyota owners.

And I'm not drinking the Toyota quality Kool-Aid.  My company-provided Tacoma already needs the heater fan replaced.  After 8 months and 16k and it sounds like a hamster wheel behind my dash and I already have a few interior rattles developing.  At least the gas pedal works!


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 9, 2010)

smitty77 said:


> My company-provided Tacoma already needs the heater fan replaced.  After 8 months and 16k and it sounds like a hamster wheel behind my dash and I already have a few interior rattles developing.  At least the gas pedal works!



Have you cleaned the cabin airfilter that is accessed through the glovebox? I have to do it every fall since dried leaves and pine needles pile up in there. Last year I waited too long and a hole developed in the filter and let a bunch of crap fall into the fan well. It made the fan sound awful. After replacing the filter and keeping it clean, I've had no issues. Note the Design of the filter access door is crap. If there is a lot of material piles on the filter, there is no space to pull the filter out without the edge of the opening scraping the material off into the fan well and it is hard to get that crap out :angry:.


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## marcski (Nov 9, 2010)

Audi dealers' service is ridiculously expensive.  After they charged me some absurd amount for a brake job, I stopped going there and have been back at my indy mechanic...Have saved a bundle since then.  He also recently purchased the computer calibration machine for the rear brakes...without which you can't do a rear brake job.


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## bvibert (Nov 9, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Another reason why I don't drive a VW.  Get a Honda.



You don't drive a VW because Geoff's Mercury needs some new sensors?  I don't see the connection?


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## dmc (Nov 9, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Yeah, but then I'd have to drive a Honda every day.   No thanks.



Thanks for saying that...

I drive VW because it's a great car to drive..


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## dmc (Nov 9, 2010)

SkiDork said:


> I just got ass raped on a new water pump.



That had to hurt...


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## smitty77 (Nov 9, 2010)

from_the_NEK said:


> Have you cleaned the cabin airfilter that is accessed through the glovebox? I have to do it every fall since dried leaves and pine needles pile up in there. Last year I waited too long and a hole developed in the filter and let a bunch of crap fall into the fan well. It made the fan sound awful. After replacing the filter and keeping it clean, I've had no issues. Note the Design of the filter access door is crap. If there is a lot of material piles on the filter, there is no space to pull the filter out without the edge of the opening scraping the material off into the fan well and it is hard to get that crap out :angry:.


Thanks for the tip, I'll have to check it out!  It only does it on the lowest 2 speeds, and not 100% of the time, more like 90%.  If I turn it on high for 15-30 seconds and then back to low it will stay quiet for anywhere from 30 seconds to 10 minutes.  My initial guess was a bearing in the fan, but I'll try the easy route first before I have them pull apart the dash - that's a sure recipe for squeaks and rattles later on.


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## SkiDork (Nov 9, 2010)

dmc said:


> That had to hurt...



LOL.  It was a reference to "Gran Torino"


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## jaja111 (Nov 9, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> No, its supposed to be at 100k on the Outback. I had it in for 60k service (at 59k in case there was warranty stuff) and they noticed a small oil leak. Opened it up and saw some wear on the timing belt while they were there and replaced it all under warranty.



Actually, oddly enough, its supposed to be replaced at 105k miles. I know this only because I did three on my WRX I had shortly before my current Outback XT. Its actually not that bad of a job if you do it yourself, affording the opportunity to flush the coolant and change the serp belt too. If I still had a warranty though, at 105k, 210k and 286k (needed crank and cam seals so I did it early anyhow) on the Impreza, I would have had the dealer do it - but now I know they would have hit me with 15 other repairs each time.

All these repair bills on this thread point to one thing - buy a shop manual. So much of this stuff is easy these days. In order to build the car faster and cheaper the side effect is that it is faster and easier to maintain it... most of the time. Alot of the dealer service horror stories equate to thievery. $180 for rear pads? No more than $90 with rotors for parts at a store. $900 for t-belt and "other stuff"? They ripped you off by telling you that there was a significant savings to do quasi-preventative maintenance of things that were not broke. The rattling heater blower fan? Take that to the dealer and they're gonna tell you that you needed the fan, the heater core, a complete flush, and "since we're in there anyhow" new rod bearings + the 12 hours of labor to account for the tech's 25 bong hits he could afford to take 'cause the 15 minute job was a cakewalk all because of a dried leaf flapping on the squirrel cage like a playing card in a bicycle. 

Dealerships exist in an enforced culture of mandatory screwing of the customer if there is even the slightest hint that they can get away with it. If you're a woman they'll charge you $200 to replace your blinker fluid in a heartbeat. If you have a high-end car, they'll blow as much smoke as possible up your ass to make you believe that high end cars need high end service even though its still basically a box with four wheels and an engine. Check engine light and you didn't scan it yourself? "Well sir, we seem to have an DTC code of 'replace every sensor over $100 and change every fluid immediately'". I work in this business and know for a fact that the 99 bad apples in the lot of 100 have ruined the integrity of any dealership of any manufacturer in this country today.

Rant over.


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## mondeo (Nov 9, 2010)

jaja111 said:


> If you're a woman they'll charge you $200 to replace your blinker fluid in a heartbeat.


I was able to talk my mechanic down to $50 for the replacement wiring harness smoke for my Triumph. He tried to charge me $125 for that. Despicable.

I've got 80k on my car now, not looking forward to the timing belt in a year and a half. Spooks me a little bit with an interference motor, screw up and cost savings is completely destroyed, and then some. Should probably do shocks soon. Some of the stuff I'd like to have a backup car for, so it wouldn't kill me to have a car down for a couple days. Like when I snapped a bolt off in a brake caliper at 12:30AM Friday morning.


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## WJenness (Nov 10, 2010)

mondeo said:


> I've got 80k on my car now, not looking forward to the timing belt in a year and a half. Spooks me a little bit with an interference motor, screw up and cost savings is completely destroyed, and then some.



I had the same fear...

However, with everything you can read / watch / learn on the internet... It really isn't that bad. 

I've done two now (my girlfriend's Jetta over the summer, and last weekend my buddy and I did his S4), the first one is definitely scary, but after that, they just get easier.

Find as many how-tos and DIYs before you do it, go slow and know what you're looking at and you'll be fine.

-w


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## bvibert (Nov 10, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Spooks me a little bit with an interference motor, screw up and cost savings is completely destroyed, and then some.



I don't know how hard it is to get at on your car, but once you get to the belt replacing it is usually easy.  Just pay attention to the timing marks, make sure everything is lined up correctly before you button everything back up and start the motor.  It's not rocket science, it just requires paying a little attention, and sometimes a special tool or two.  That is of course assuming you have a decent service manual that tells you what to be looking for.

I'm going to have to do mine soon, the only reason I'm not looking forward to it is I have to take the entire front of the car off (bumper, grill, radiator, etc..) to get to the timing belt on the front of the motor.  I don't usually (ever) pay to have service done, but I made sure to have the timing belt done before picking up the car at the place I bought the car from a few years ago.  I wasn't anxious to tear into a new (to me) car right away...

I've done the job on other interference motors before with no issues.


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## mondeo (Nov 10, 2010)

bvibert said:


> I don't know how hard it is to get at on your car


One great thing about a flat-4 is everything in the engine compartment is pretty easy to get to.

I mean, the alternator stares you in the face when you open the hood. Can't really ask for anything more than that.


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## bvibert (Nov 10, 2010)

WJenness said:


> I've done two now (my girlfriend's Jetta over the summer, and last weekend my buddy and I did his S4), the first one is definitely scary, but after that, they just get easier.



How'd it go on the S4?


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## Geoff (Nov 10, 2010)

jaja111 said:


> Dealerships exist in an enforced culture of mandatory screwing of the customer if there is even the slightest hint that they can get away with it. If you're a woman they'll charge you $200 to replace your blinker fluid in a heartbeat. If you have a high-end car, they'll blow as much smoke as possible up your ass to make you believe that high end cars need high end service even though its still basically a box with four wheels and an engine. Check engine light and you didn't scan it yourself? "Well sir, we seem to have an DTC code of 'replace every sensor over $100 and change every fluid immediately'". I work in this business and know for a fact that the 99 bad apples in the lot of 100 have ruined the integrity of any dealership of any manufacturer in this country today.



I have the USB cable and software for my GTI.   I scan the thing for fault codes before every oil change.   All the work is done at the dealer.   The car is under warranty to 50K with an extended warranty up to 100K.   Other than a fairly pricey 40K and 80K service where they replace transmission oil/filter and flush the brake lines, I'm not paying for much of anything beyond oil changes until the car crosses 100K miles.

My Mountaineer has 107K miles on it and is my winter beater to drive to the ski hill.   The Service Engine Soon lamp is flashing on the dash.   I could go to AutoZone and get the fault codes read for free but I don't have the garage space or the time to fuss with it.   It's going to a local indy mechanic tomorrow who has a good reputation.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 10, 2010)

http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/05/autos/subaru_sales_jump.fortune/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular

nuff said ;-)


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## mondeo (Nov 10, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/05/autos/subaru_sales_jump.fortune/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular
> 
> nuff said ;-)


I find it humorous that they use the STI as the picture for that story. It describes very well the basis for the Outback and Forrester, as well as the base Impreza and Legacy. The Legacy GT, WRX, and STI are all niche vehicles that run contrary to what that article describes, the STI being just about the opposite of what the base of the brand is all about.

I don't know that you'll find a brand that has a more discretized customer base. Non-turbo buyers are some of the slowest drivers on the road, the turbo car buyers some of the most aggressive. I dread being stuck behind Outbacks and Forresters more than I dread Camrys or minivans.


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## WWF-VT (Nov 10, 2010)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> had all the 80k stuff done, needed all new plugs, some tubes/hoses were shot, brakes and rotors, switch for the trunk latch, some other stuff that needed fixing as well.....running great....



$3500 still sounds like a lot of $$ for that work.  My independent Audi garage is less than $1000 for the timing belt/water pump and probably couldn't make up enough work to get a bill up to $3500.


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## Glenn (Nov 10, 2010)

Gahddamnit. Just brought the Jeep in for an alighnment...my wheel is at about 9 o'clock after having a drag link end replace. They can't align it...needs a rod end. I hate paying people to do  stuff like that...ugh! I need a lift in my garage...and 8 extra hours in a day. I don't see either happening soon. :lol:


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## SKIQUATTRO (Nov 10, 2010)

there was a ton more stuff, i'd have to go dig out the bill......

a buddy of mine's xterra just went, he's going Subie....


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## campgottagopee (Nov 10, 2010)

mondeo said:


> *I find it humorous that they use the STI as the picture for that story*. It describes very well the basis for the Outback and Forrester, as well as the base Impreza and Legacy. The Legacy GT, WRX, and STI are all niche vehicles that run contrary to what that article describes, the STI being just about the opposite of what the base of the brand is all about.
> 
> I don't know that you'll find a brand that has a more discretized customer base. Non-turbo buyers are some of the slowest drivers on the road, the turbo car buyers some of the most aggressive. I dread being stuck behind Outbacks and Forresters more than I dread Camrys or minivans.



No kidding---can't even friggin get the cars, looks cool tho.


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## hammer (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't pay for maintenance visits yet on my Volvo but I saw this morning that they would have charged $180 for an oil change w/full synthetic, service light reset, and a few other inspections. :-o


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## tjf67 (Nov 10, 2010)

hammer said:


> I don't pay for maintenance visits yet on my Volvo but I saw this morning that they would have charged $180 for an oil change w/full synthetic, service light reset, and a few other inspections. :-o



Your owners manual calls for full Synthetic?  Is the oil change every 15,000 miles?


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## hammer (Nov 10, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> Your owners manual calls for full Synthetic?  Is the oil change every 15,000 miles?


Oil changes are every 7,500 miles.  Full synthetic isn't required but my independent mechanic recommended it for turbo engines.  I do pay for the difference at the dealer (around $40-$45).


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## tjf67 (Nov 10, 2010)

hammer said:


> Oil changes are every 7,500 miles.  Full synthetic isn't required but my independent mechanic recommended it for turbo engines.  I do pay for the difference at the dealer (around $40-$45).




I have a turbo with 22,000.00 miles on it.  I was told by the shop not to change what type of oil the owners manual calls for.  The cars performance is based off of that weight oil and changing it will effect it.

Who the heck knows.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 10, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> I have a turbo with 22,000.00 miles on it.  I was told by the shop not to change what type of oil the owners manual calls for.  The cars performance is based off of that weight oil and changing it will effect it.
> 
> Who the heck knows.



True, don't want any warranty issues down the road and wanna keep that turbo coooool.


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## WJenness (Nov 10, 2010)

bvibert said:


> How'd it go on the S4?



To tell you the truth, it was easier on the S4 than the Jetta... Took less time too.

It helped that we had an hour long DVD that was basically a how-to... We could have used that for the Jetta. The fun with the Jetta was further compounded by the fact that we hadn't done ANY work on that car prior to that, so just learning where everything was and how it came apart took a bit.

The S4 he's had for a couple years and we've done a lot of stuff to it... We had to do the TB because his thermostat failed, and you've gotta basically do all the TB work to get to the thermostat.

Also, because the S4 is Quattro, the motor is longitudinal, as opposed to the transverse mount in the FWD jetta... so it's actually much easier to see / operate on everything by taking the front end of the car off, as opposed to digging through the wheel well...

The biggest issue we had on the Jetta was that you had to un-do a motor mount as the belt goes around it, and then shift it out of the way, replace the belt and put it back... We fought with that damned mount for a couple hours all tolled. No such pain on the S4.

-w


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## hammer (Nov 10, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> True, don't want any warranty issues down the road and wanna keep that turbo coooool.



Not an problem for my car...from the owner's manual:



> Depending on your driving habits, premium or synthetic oils may provide superior fuel economy and engine protection. Consult your Volvo retailer or a trained and qualified Volvo service technician for recommendations on premium or synthetic oils.


All the dealer does when I ask for synthetic is put it in and charge me the extra.  They make no mention of any warranty issues.


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## bvibert (Nov 10, 2010)

WJenness said:


> To tell you the truth, it was easier on the S4 than the Jetta... Took less time too.
> 
> It helped that we had an hour long DVD that was basically a how-to... We could have used that for the Jetta. The fun with the Jetta was further compounded by the fact that we hadn't done ANY work on that car prior to that, so just learning where everything was and how it came apart took a bit.
> 
> ...



So taking the front apart wasn't too bad?  My Passat is going to be the same thing when I do it (since it's basically a FWD A4).  The service manual makes it sound pretty easy, its good to hear that it went smoothly for you.

I've done timing belts on transverse VWs before, the lack of space can definitely be a PITA.


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## WJenness (Nov 10, 2010)

bvibert said:


> So taking the front apart wasn't too bad?  My Passat is going to be the same thing when I do it (since it's basically a FWD A4).  The service manual makes it sound pretty easy, its good to hear that it went smoothly for you.
> 
> I've done timing belts on transverse VWs before, the lack of space can definitely be a PITA.



Yeah, not bad at all a bunch of bolts to keep track of, but not horrible.... A lot of the DIYs don't say to drain the coolant first (which we didn't on the Jetta) but that makes a big mess when you pull the water pump... We did it on the S4 and it was much cleaner.

We started at about 5:00PM.

Here are some pics of our progression:

6:08PM






7:02PM





7:56PM





8:52PM





This was the end of take apart stage, from here it was re-install.

We finished about 20 after 2.

We did:
Oil Change
replaced:
Timing Belt
Timing Belt Tensioner and tensioner pulley
Idler pulley
Serpentine Belt
Serpentine Tensioner
Thermostat
Water Pump

and we replaced the Alternator, Crank and Power Steering pulleys with lightweight versions

-w


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## bvibert (Nov 10, 2010)

Holy crap that's a lot of engine crammed in there!  Seeing it with the nose off makes it even more apparent!


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## Glenn (Nov 10, 2010)

Nice work! Looks you just put the condenser off to the side? I imagine pulling that off adds some serious time to do the job...especially when you factor in draining the R134a....then pulling a vac...and refilling.


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## WJenness (Nov 10, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Nice work! Looks you just put the condenser off to the side? I imagine pulling that off adds some serious time to do the job...especially when you factor in draining the R134a....then pulling a vac...and refilling.



Yeah, you can just swing it out of the way... MUCH easier.

-w


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## riverc0il (Nov 11, 2010)

I will jump on the cars suck band wagon. Inspection time did me in for a new muffler and various emissions work. Starter just went last week. Toss in a new battery and some front brakes that passed inspection but won't last the winter and I am in business. Car is over 160k and I was planning on getting a new car next year. Should have just scraped this one instead of inspecting and fixing. I was okay with the price tag until the jury rigged emissions work failed and then the starter went. Ouch. Now I am in the hole too much to cut my loses.

Talking to a coworker at work. His MO is to trade up and buy every three years. My MO has always been to pay off and drive into the ground. My year cost of ownership for my current car is less than $1000 per year averaging out the price I paid up front. But add in total cost of ownership and repairs, and I have to wonder if having never ending monthly payments but never facing major repairs isn't the way to go.

One thing you don't get with newer cars is an insurance bill that only costs $328 for the entire year.


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## andrec10 (Nov 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I will jump on the cars suck band wagon. Inspection time did me in for a new muffler and various emissions work. Starter just went last week. Toss in a new battery and some front brakes that passed inspection but won't last the winter and I am in business. Car is over 160k and I was planning on getting a new car next year. Should have just scraped this one instead of inspecting and fixing. I was okay with the price tag until the jury rigged emissions work failed and then the starter went. Ouch. Now I am in the hole too much to cut my loses.
> 
> Talking to a coworker at work. His MO is to trade up and buy every three years. My MO has always been to pay off and drive into the ground. My year cost of ownership for my current car is less than $1000 per year averaging out the price I paid up front. But add in total cost of ownership and repairs, and I have to wonder if having never ending monthly payments but never facing major repairs isn't the way to go.
> 
> One thing you don't get with newer cars is an insurance bill that only costs $328 for the entire year.



I'm in the camp of staying with a newer car with a warranty. Got burned once like you and did the math. To me and my wife, its worth not to have to lay out tons of money on a depreciating assett! IMO


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## riverc0il (Nov 11, 2010)

andrec10 said:


> I'm in the camp of staying with a newer car with a warranty. Got burned once like you and did the math. To me and my wife, its worth not to have to lay out tons of money on a depreciating assett! IMO


I don't care about laying out tons of money on a depreciating asset. If you have the mind to drive a car until it dies, it has depreciated no more on its last day than it did no its first day. I committed myself to getting junk value back for this car. And it doesn't matter if I drive it another one year or five years, I would still get the same trade in value.

However, that was buying an $8000 car. I can't imagine stetting up to buying a brand new car and trying to get my monies worth. It would take 20 years of driving to get a $20k down to my < $1000/year price tag. In a brand new car situation that you one day plan to trade, then the depreciation factor enters into the equation. Staying with the new car is even more valuable, I think, if you can buy the car outright and never be paying loans and interest. 

But even beyond the financial aspect, I think if both options were equally expensive or staying with newer cars was even slightly more expensive, it might still be worth while from the emotional side of things. Paying an auto shop $1500 to keep a POS car on the road is demoralizing.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I will jump on the cars suck band wagon. Inspection time did me in for a new muffler and various emissions work. Starter just went last week. Toss in a new battery and some front brakes that passed inspection but won't last the winter and I am in business. Car is over 160k and I was planning on getting a new car next year. Should have just scraped this one instead of inspecting and fixing. I was okay with the price tag until the jury rigged emissions work failed and then the starter went. Ouch. Now I am in the hole too much to cut my loses.
> 
> Talking to a coworker at work. His MO is to trade up and buy every three years. My MO has always been to pay off and drive into the ground. My year cost of ownership for my current car is less than $1000 per year averaging out the price I paid up front. But add in total cost of ownership and repairs, and I have to wonder if having never ending monthly payments but never facing major repairs isn't the way to go.
> 
> One thing you don't get with newer cars is an insurance bill that only costs $328 for the entire year.



Thus leasing was developed....truly a good way to go if one can stay within the mileage limitations. If I had to "buy" a car I would lease it for sure.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 11, 2010)

andrec10 said:


> I'm in the camp of staying with a newer car with a warranty. Got burned once like you and did the math. To me and my wife, its worth not to have to lay out tons of money on a depreciating assett! IMO



That depends on how much you drive.

Due to a traveling sales position and hobbies such as skiing that require significant travel, I put 40K miles a year on a car.  That means even with the best warranties, I've passed the limit in two and a half years.  

Most cars with 100K miles on them, even if only 2.5 years old have depreciated by a ton and there's a good possibility you'll be upside down on the loan.

So, in my situation I think it's best I keep my cars as long as possible.  Even prior to my current employment situation I kept two of my three previous cars to 200K miles.  The excpetion was an Audi that I dumped at 120K because I found it ridiculously expensive to fix.

My only regret in my current situation is that I bought my car new.  I think considering how fast my lifestyle depraciate a cars value, I'd be better off buying a 2 year old car with low mileage thats already taken a significant depreciation hit.


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## bigbog (Nov 11, 2010)

SkiDork said:


> ........I'll also need new AC compressor come springtime (it blew up, had them just cut off the belt for now) .



Same here...~$900(Xterra):roll:.  AC is so nice on those damp/wet thawing or late winter days where temps are right at that level where fog wants to happen.  Bought myself one of those ~6" DC clip-on fans and put together bunch of 2x4s(with a little tweaking) to clamp onto and lie in seat(front/back) pointing towards the front...  Combined with rear windows cracked = has been survivable since last winter.   Just don't need the AC up here in summer, thus it gets placed @end of brain-queue.


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## Geoff (Nov 11, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> That depends on how much you drive.



Definitely!



deadheadskier said:


> Due to a traveling sales position and hobbies such as skiing that require significant travel, I put 40K miles a year on a car.  That means even with the best warranties, I've passed the limit in two and a half years.
> 
> Most cars with 100K miles on them, even if only 2.5 years old have depreciated by a ton and there's a good possibility you'll be upside down on the loan.
> 
> ...



I used to have years where I did 35-40K miles per year between commuting, skiing every weekend in the winter, and driving to salt water on weekends in the summer.   I always bought new and kept it for 150K miles so I knew that I wasn't driving a car that had been beat on or had poor maintanence.   Spread out over 4 years and all those miles, the depreciation hit isn't that bad.   I've always bought leftover cars at a steep discount so I'm driving a zero mile car that has had that first year of depreciation already factored out.   My current VW GTI was $3K off of invoice.   My last one was $1K off of invoice.   My last three SUVs had huge rebates on top of being invoice deals.   

Right now, I'm running two cars.  My SUV serves as "winter beater" since I don't want to subject my VW with a turbo to those daily cold starts and 2 mile drive to the ski area parking lot.   I really should collapse things down to one car.


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## severine (Nov 11, 2010)

bigbog said:


> Same here...~$900(Xterra):roll:.  AC is so nice on those damp/wet thawing or late winter days where temps are right at that level where fog wants to happen.  Bought myself one of those ~6" DC clip-on fans and put together bunch of 2x4s to clamp onto and lie in seat(front/back) pointing towards the front...  Combined with rear windows cracked = has been survivable since last winter.   Just don't need the AC up here in summer, thus it gets placed @end of brain-queue.



A/C? I haven't had that for 2 summers now... or is that 3? It's a little inconvenient when the windshield fogs up sometimes but I've made do. Truck is paid off and I'd like to stretch it until I'm employed again, so I put up with a lot of crap from it.


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## marcski (Nov 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> However, that was buying an $8000 car. I can't imagine stetting up to buying a brand new car and trying to get my monies worth. It would take 20 years of driving to get a $20k down to my < $1000/year price tag.



You're also not factoring in any residual value, Steve. If you follow your buddy's routine, you'll resell and get a new one in another 3 years. The 20k car will still have a value which you will just roll into the new one.


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## drjeff (Nov 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I will jump on the cars suck band wagon. Inspection time did me in for a new muffler and various emissions work. Starter just went last week. Toss in a new battery and some front brakes that passed inspection but won't last the winter and I am in business. Car is over 160k and I was planning on getting a new car next year. Should have just scraped this one instead of inspecting and fixing. I was okay with the price tag until the jury rigged emissions work failed and then the starter went. Ouch. Now I am in the hole too much to cut my loses.
> 
> Talking to a coworker at work. His MO is to trade up and buy every three years. My MO has always been to pay off and drive into the ground. My year cost of ownership for my current car is less than $1000 per year averaging out the price I paid up front. But add in total cost of ownership and repairs, and I have to wonder if having never ending monthly payments but never facing major repairs isn't the way to go.
> 
> One thing you don't get with newer cars is an insurance bill that only costs $328 for the entire year.



My theory has been that once the car is paid off, if I go through a cycle where for 2 out of 3 months my repair bills are equal to or greater than what my monthly payment used to be (and the reality is I'll be seeing more months of repair bills coming up), the old car is gone and there's some new wheels in the garage ASAP.  And even when I have a car paid off and it's running fine,  I'm still mentally(if not actually in the form of putting that $$ in the saving account) making that car payment every month, because all too often once a car is paid off, they'll still be a bunch of months where you'll be paying a bunch on it anyway.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 11, 2010)

drjeff said:


> .  And even when I have a car paid off and it's running fine,  I'm still mentally(if not actually in the form of putting that $$ in the saving account) making that car payment every month, because all too often once a car is paid off, they'll still be a bunch of months where you'll be paying a bunch on it anyway.



We do this as well.  Same amount of money gets set aside every month for car expenses.  If we have payments it goes towards that.  If we finish a payment, it goes towards saving for a new vehicle or repairs.


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## Geoff (Nov 11, 2010)

drjeff said:


> My theory has been that once the car is paid off, if I go through a cycle where for 2 out of 3 months my repair bills are equal to or greater than what my monthly payment used to be (and the reality is I'll be seeing more months of repair bills coming up), the old car is gone and there's some new wheels in the garage ASAP.  And even when I have a car paid off and it's running fine,  I'm still mentally(if not actually in the form of putting that $$ in the saving account) making that car payment every month, because all too often once a car is paid off, they'll still be a bunch of months where you'll be paying a bunch on it anyway.



The problem with that strategy is that you implement the strategy 10 minutes after something really expensive goes wrong with the car.   if you don't shell out the money to fix the problem, the car is worth doodly-squat.   If you dump the car after it's fixed, you'd might as well run it for a few months to get your money's worth out of the repair.

I should probably just dump my cars as they go off the 100K extended warranty to avoid that problem but I usually try to sneak in the next 50K hoping nothing expensive happens.   My first GTI cost me $1K+ worth of turbo plumbing repairs right after it went off warranty but then ran like a champ for another 40,000 miles.   I might not be so lucky the next time.


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## mlctvt (Nov 11, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> We do this as well.  Same amount of money gets set aside every month for car expenses.  If we have payments it goes towards that.  If we finish a payment, it goes towards saving for a new vehicle or repairs.



+1, We started doing this years ago. When we finished paying off our car after the 3-or 4 year car payments were up we kept making the payent to ourselves into our "car" account. After 4 more years we had enough money to pay cash for a new car or a slightly used 2-3 year old car with low miles. The last 5 cars we bought with cash. Once you have the savings it's easy, you just must keep making the payments to yourself and not use the money for anything else, it's just takes discipline. 

I do all my own maintenace and car repair work though so that help keeps those costs low.


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## drjeff (Nov 11, 2010)

Geoff said:


> The problem with that strategy is that you implement the strategy 10 minutes after something really expensive goes wrong with the car.   if you don't shell out the money to fix the problem, the car is worth doodly-squat.   If you dump the car after it's fixed, you'd might as well run it for a few months to get your money's worth out of the repair.
> 
> I should probably just dump my cars as they go off the 100K extended warranty to avoid that problem but I usually try to sneak in the next 50K hoping nothing expensive happens.   My first GTI cost me $1K+ worth of turbo plumbing repairs right after it went off warranty but then ran like a champ for another 40,000 miles.   I might not be so lucky the next time.



It's a bit of a context thing that I wasn't super clear on.  About 18 months ago when I last did this, I had just had issues, on my almost 8 year old SUV that was almost at 150k, where I had in the previous few months had big bills relating to the alternator, the brakes, and the exhaust system and was looking at one of the "major" service visits and a new set of tires coming up (and who knows what else)  Descision was easy for me to dump the old vehicle and get a new one


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## hammer (Nov 11, 2010)

drjeff said:


> It's a bit of a context thing that I wasn't super clear on.  About 18 months ago when I last did this, I had just had issues, on my almost 8 year old SUV that was almost at 150k, where I had in the previous few months had big bills relating to the alternator, the brakes, and the exhaust system and was looking at one of the "major" service visits and a new set of tires coming up (and who knows what else) Decision was easy for me to dump the old vehicle and get a new one


When determining car expenses, I separate out "repair" from "maintenance", where "maintenance" includes regular service visits, brakes, and tires.  IMO a car is more expensive than it's worth if the "repair" expenses exceed a monthly payment for an extended period.

I look at brakes and tires as being normal wear items that I have to cover regardless of the car's age (my new car includes brake service during the initial warranty period but not all new cars do).


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## gorgonzola (Nov 11, 2010)

$1002 for new tires, brakes, alignment for mrs snowbunski's ride...ugh

cars , houses....spouses..... oops just kidding on the last one!


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## billski (Nov 11, 2010)

gorgonzola said:


> $1002 for new tires, brakes, alignment for mrs snowbunski's ride...ugh
> 
> cars , houses....spouses..... oops just kidding on the last one!


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## riverc0il (Nov 11, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Thus leasing was developed....truly a good way to go if one can stay within the mileage limitations. If I had to "buy" a car I would lease it for sure.


Not really an option for skiers. I would lease for sure if not for skiing and owning a dog.


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## Geoff (Nov 11, 2010)

My indy mechanic called about my Mountaineer with SERVICE ENGINE SOON flashing.  Bad coil from sitting around so long.   They're doing a major tune up to it and flushing the radiator.   Plugs, coil boots & ignition wires, ....  It's been 3 years since the car has seen anything but a yearly oil change so I can't complain.


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## campgottagopee (Nov 12, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Not really an option for skiers. I would lease for sure if not for skiing and owning a dog.



Curious what skiing and dogs have to do with leasing. I lesae my wife a car---we have 2 dogs and we both ski.


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## andrec10 (Nov 12, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Curious what skiing and dogs have to do with leasing. I lesae my wife a car---we have 2 dogs and we both ski.



My wifes Acura is leased and we have one dog and Ski. We just blew your thoughts away!


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## hammer (Nov 12, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Curious what skiing and dogs have to do with leasing. I lesae my wife a car---we have 2 dogs and we both ski.


Mileage and wear and tear would be my guess...

I put too many miles on a car to make leasing worthwhile.  In addition, I've had a few cars where the repair bills started to climb several years after they were paid off.  It's real nice when you are in that situation.


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## andrec10 (Nov 12, 2010)

We buy extra miles, plus now Acura gives you up to 7500 miles grace if you lease another, so it works for us. I am also a nut about how I keep my cars, so on my last two lease trade/turn ins, I actually made money. Different things work for different people!


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## riverc0il (Nov 12, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Curious what skiing and dogs have to do with leasing. I lesae my wife a car---we have 2 dogs and we both ski.


Skiing has to do with driving LOTS of miles every year. Dogs has to do with a crazy dog that sheds and claws at the windows and chews things to pieces. Both of which might increase end of lease penalties. You run your shop and lease, you might not have to worry about that sort of thing. 

FWIW.... 15k in a year is my minimum...


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## campgottagopee (Nov 13, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Skiing has to do with driving LOTS of miles every year. Dogs has to do with a crazy dog that sheds and claws at the windows and chews things to pieces. Both of which might increase end of lease penalties. You run your shop and lease, you might not have to worry about that sort of thing.
> 
> FWIW.... 15k in a year is my minimum...



That's what I thought....If your driving between 15-18k/yr leasing still could be a great option for you. The only down side to that kind of milage in a lease is that you will need to put tires on the vehicle adding to your "total cost of ownership", but still could work good for you when it comes to "dollars and cents".

As for your dog chewing stuff....DO NOT LEASE :lol:

p.s. the dealer has NO input when it comes to a lease turn-in.....it's between the leasee and the lessor....the dealer is out of the loop, so I get no special treatment when it comes time for turning in my wifes lease.


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## riverc0il (Nov 13, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> That's what I thought....If your driving between 15-18k/yr leasing still could be a great option for you. The only down side to that kind of milage in a lease is that you will need to put tires on the vehicle adding to your "total cost of ownership", but still could work good for you when it comes to "dollars and cents".


Well, I will have to look into the option if the only downside is putting tires on because I would swap out for snow tires during the winter so the regular tires wouldn't receive even half of the total miles since most of my miles happen October through May. We can always buy the dog wagon for S and lease me a nice car.  Surprised to hear that leases go for up to 18k/year  That cost extra? That is 54k total in 3 years. Doesn't sound like the dealership would make out of that type of deal if it is the same lease rate as a 15k max/year (a total of 9k less).


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## campgottagopee (Nov 13, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Well, I will have to look into the option if the only downside is putting tires on because I would swap out for snow tires during the winter so the regular tires wouldn't receive even half of the total miles since most of my miles happen October through May. We can always buy the dog wagon for S and lease me a nice car.  Surprised to hear that leases go for up to 18k/year  That cost extra? That is 54k total in 3 years. Doesn't sound like the dealership would make out of that type of deal if it is the same lease rate as a 15k max/year (a total of 9k less).



Yes, leases (for the most part) can be written for any milage, and yes, the payment is reflective of the "allowable milage/year"...so a 18k/ year lease payment might be 10 bucks more/ month than a 15k/yr lease, just as a 10k/yr lease wouldl be 18/mo less than a 15k/yr. 

As for the dealer all a "lease" is is another avenue of selling a car to someone....that's it. There's no more profit in a lease or a purchase deal....just different ways to sell cars.


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## Nick (Mar 29, 2011)

I just hit 150k on my 2003 Saab. It's starting to make wierd noises but it's paid off & I don't wanna buy another car.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 29, 2011)

138K on my 07 Hyundai.  six more payments to go :???:


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## hammer (Mar 29, 2011)

Nick said:


> I just hit 150k on my 2003 Saab. It's starting to make wierd noises but it's paid off & I don't wanna buy another car.


I'll be adding a car payment in a year or two...car being replaced is at 192K and will be handed down to the new driver in the house.  It was nice not having that payment for several years.


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## Nick (Mar 30, 2011)

Wife's 2002 mitsubishi lancer went in the shop this afternoon for a check engine light. Fingers crossed it's not something expensive. 

And no, we didn't leave the gas cap off


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## Nick (Mar 30, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> 138K on my 07 Hyundai.  six more payments to go :???:



That's a lotta driving!


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## vdk03 (Mar 30, 2011)

I just changed the oil in my dakota today, i had heard people raving about a product called sea foam that removes gunk and other buildup in the engine. I put a  half a pint in with my oil about 100 miles ago. hope i notice a differance. has anyone ever heard of or used sea foam?


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## hammer (Mar 30, 2011)

Nick said:


> Wife's 2002 mitsubishi lancer went in the shop this afternoon for a check engine light. Fingers crossed it's not something expensive.
> 
> And no, we didn't leave the gas cap off


We have a CEL on our Toyota...came up as a Catalytic Converter so I've been putting off the repairs, but when I took it in for inspection the codes were different.  Need to get it to a mechanic to figure it all out but we're also hoping it won't be too much to fix.


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## Glenn (Mar 31, 2011)

vdk03 said:


> I just changed the oil in my dakota today, i had heard people raving about a product called sea foam that removes gunk and other buildup in the engine. I put a  half a pint in with my oil about 100 miles ago. hope i notice a differance. has anyone ever heard of or used sea foam?



I've never used it in the oil, but from what I've read, it'll clean out sludge and deposits. I've used it in the gastank...and it works great. I use it in the vehicles every so often. Where it really shines, is power equipment. I put a bit in my 5 gallon gas jug every time I fill it up. Well, not always SeaFoam...the cheaper stuff..Berryman Chemtool. Allegedly, they're pretty similar. The Berryman + some StaBil does wonders. It keeps the gas from varnishing up and the carb passages nice and clean. I don't drain the gas from my power equipment over the winter and it fires right up in the spring. I pulled my chains saw out of the shed in VT a few weeks ago...started right up.


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## Geoff (Mar 31, 2011)

vdk03 said:


> I just changed the oil in my dakota today, i had heard people raving about a product called sea foam that removes gunk and other buildup in the engine. I put a  half a pint in with my oil about 100 miles ago. hope i notice a differance. has anyone ever heard of or used sea foam?



What I always hear from good indy mechanics:   If you use a good synthetic oil for the life of the car and change it when you're supposed to, you don't get sludge buildup.   Unless I'm getting blowby on the valves and rings, there's no way I'd ever consider adding anything to my engine oil.

I'd think you would see more of a difference using something like that as a fuel treatment.   You would likely see some gains by cleaning out your intake system.

If I were doing that on an older car, I'd change the oil, replace all the filters, and clean the plugs after a couple of tanks of fuel.  No telling what goo you'll end up with in your fuel and oil filters.

Beware that anything that causes 'gunk' to get burned can cause your oxygen sensor to fail.


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## snoseek (Mar 31, 2011)

Riding the gravy train on the 03 civic. 197,000 miles. Put some tires and brakes of 20,000 miles ago. I'm not doing anything else other than change the oil for the rest of it's life. Someone offered me cash yesterday for this car-very tempted to sell. I need something newer and maybe even awd for Utah. 


Any ideas on a good economical 4wd or awd car that is also reliable? No frills is fine.


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## ALLSKIING (Mar 31, 2011)

vdk03 said:


> I just changed the oil in my dakota today, i had heard people raving about a product called sea foam that removes gunk and other buildup in the engine. I put a  half a pint in with my oil about 100 miles ago. hope i notice a differance. has anyone ever heard of or used sea foam?


Yes, but thats not how you use it....


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## deadheadskier (Mar 31, 2011)

I think I'd double over laughing if a mechanic recommended sea foam for my car.  Sounds like a treatment my wife would get at a Spa, not an engine treatment. :lol:


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## pro2860 (Mar 31, 2011)

ALLSKIING said:


> Yes, but thats not how you use it....



Um...actually that is how you use it....one of the ways..it can also be used with new oil as an additive


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## Nick (Mar 31, 2011)

Picked up the Lancer this afternoon. Was a busted ignition coil, with an oil change came to just over $200. Ugh, but not too bad, considering the car hasn't been in the shop in probably 8 months or so. And it's also paid off


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## Nick (Mar 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I think I'd double over laughing if a mechanic recommended sea foam for my car.  Sounds like a treatment my wife would get at a Spa, not an engine treatment. :lol:



I agree!


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## WJenness (Mar 31, 2011)

Nick said:


> Picked up the Lancer this afternoon. Was a busted ignition coil, with an oil change came to just over $200. Ugh, but not too bad, considering the car hasn't been in the shop in probably 8 months or so. And it's also paid off



Evo or non-evo?

-w


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## Nick (Mar 31, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Evo or non-evo?
> 
> -w



Non EVO, it's a OZ Rally. They give it a fancy name but it's only like 120 horses :dunce:


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## WJenness (Mar 31, 2011)

Nick said:


> Non EVO, it's a OZ Rally. They give it a fancy name but it's only like 120 horses :dunce:



Stick? Flappy Paddles? Or boring slush-o-matic?

-w


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## Nick (Mar 31, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Stick? Flappy Paddles? Or boring slush-o-matic?
> 
> -w



Slush-o-matic. 

It's my wifes car   I've got a 2003 Saab 9-3 with 210 ponies and that super-fun Turbo zoom

EDIT: and that's a stickshift, I will never ever buy an automatic. I refuse too.


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## WJenness (Mar 31, 2011)

Nick said:


> Slush-o-matic.
> 
> It's my wifes car   I've got a 2003 Saab 9-3 with 210 ponies and that super-fun Turbo zoom
> 
> EDIT: and that's a stickshift, I will never ever buy an automatic. I refuse too.



My Man! </denzel_voice>

My car (2004 Audi A4) is my first standard... I can't see myself going back to an automatic... (Dual clutch gearbox is something else entirely that I could see myself driving with the right car... but I prefer the standard.)

-w


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## vdk03 (Mar 31, 2011)

Geoff said:


> What I always hear from good indy mechanics:   If you use a good synthetic oil for the life of the car and change it when you're supposed to, you don't get sludge buildup.   Unless I'm getting blowby on the valves and rings, there's no way I'd ever consider adding anything to my engine oil.
> 
> I'd think you would see more of a difference using something like that as a fuel treatment.   You would likely see some gains by cleaning out your intake system.
> 
> ...



Thanks i appreciate the input.



ALLSKIING said:


> Yes, but thats not how you use it....



there are a few different ways you can use it, a fuel additve seems like the most common. you can also use it before you change your oil to remove any 'sludge' as well as run it through your vacuum lines. I think you probably notice the biggest difference when using it with small engines though.


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## Nick (Mar 31, 2011)

WJenness said:


> My Man! </denzel_voice>
> 
> My car (2004 Audi A4) is my first standard... I can't see myself going back to an automatic... (Dual clutch gearbox is something else entirely that I could see myself driving with the right car... but I prefer the standard.)
> 
> -w



I have to add some more smilies to the repository. There is one I used to use on another forum all the time, :highfive: it was basically a jumping smiley high five. Loved that one and it woudl apply perfectly here :beer:

I just keep doing the beer one here. People are gonna think I'm an alcoholic. :-?


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## Geoff (Apr 1, 2011)

WJenness said:


> My Man! </denzel_voice>
> 
> My car (2004 Audi A4) is my first standard... I can't see myself going back to an automatic... (Dual clutch gearbox is something else entirely that I could see myself driving with the right car... but I prefer the standard.)
> 
> -w



I went from a manual on my last VW GTI to their 6-speed dual clutch DSG transmission.    There's no way I could out shift that transmission with a manual.   I doubt I will ever go back.

Of course, it also makes it brutal when I drive the slush-o-matic in my SUV.


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## hammer (Apr 1, 2011)

vdk03 said:


> Thanks i appreciate the input.
> 
> 
> 
> there are a few different ways you can use it, a fuel additive seems like the most common. you can also use it before you change your oil to remove any 'sludge' as well as run it through your vacuum lines. I think you probably notice the biggest difference when using it with small engines though.


Thought I read somewhere that using additives to dislodge sludge could cause more problems than it would solve...and that the best way to reduce sludge was to do frequent oil changes with a high quality motor oil (not necessarily synthetic).

My 2001 Highlander has the V6 engine that had reported sludge problems.  I just made sure I kept up on the oil changes.


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## bvibert (Apr 1, 2011)

Nick said:


> EDIT: and that's a stickshift, I will never ever buy an automatic. I refuse too.



Awesome!  Same here, but I'm worried about being forced into a automatic as they become more and more prevalent... :-?


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## Nick (Apr 1, 2011)

I think most European manufacturers will continue to make stickshift vehicles. 

I grew up driving German cars, probably b/c my dad was from europe. We always had VW's, my first car was an '88 Golf


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## bvibert (Apr 1, 2011)

Nick said:


> I think most European manufacturers will continue to make stickshift vehicles.
> 
> I grew up driving German cars, probably b/c my dad was from europe. We always had VW's, my first car was an '88 Golf



My first car was an '87 Golf, loved that car!


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## wa-loaf (Apr 1, 2011)

Nick said:


> EDIT: and that's a stickshift, I will never ever buy an automatic. I refuse too.





WJenness said:


> My Man! </denzel_voice>
> 
> My car (2004 Audi A4) is my first standard... I can't see myself going back to an automatic...





bvibert said:


> Awesome!  Same here, but I'm worried about being forced into a automatic as they become more and more prevalent... :-?



I'm trying to hold out as a stick-shift user too. It's too bad a lot of cars that do have them are only in the base models and you can't get a lot of the options. I think eventually I'm going to have to get a "people mover" and keep some kind of "fun" car around to get my fix.


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## Geoff (Apr 1, 2011)

Nick said:


> I think most European manufacturers will continue to make stickshift vehicles.
> 
> I grew up driving German cars, probably b/c my dad was from europe. We always had VW's, my first car was an '88 Golf



You are bucking the trend... even in Germany.  The dual clutch transmissions have pretty much erased the stigma of driving an automatic in Germany.



> Is the manual transmission out?
> 
> Germany’s drivers are increasingly letting their cars shift gear for them. At the turn of the century, manual transmissions accounted for 85 percent of the German market. Currently, 28 percent of cars on the road here have automatic transmissions, a figure that rises by a percentage point every year.



http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/prod...s/transmission_trends/transmission_trends.jsp


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## SKIQUATTRO (Apr 1, 2011)

i've had manuals since i was 16 (now 38)


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## ctenidae (Apr 1, 2011)

Never owned anything but a stick, on #s 6 and 7 now.


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## ZYDECORICH (Apr 2, 2011)

For what It's worth, once my cars got beyond 180,000 i always have used Lucas oil treatment when I change the oil. Seems to have extended the life, just sayin.


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