# Sundown Moguls



## powhunter (Oct 18, 2009)

So they still plan on opening with seeded bumps on stinger??   Any plans to put a kicker into the mix??  

steveo


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## bvibert (Oct 18, 2009)

My sources tell me that there will be bumps on Stinger, skier's right, down to where it opens up and flattens out.  Hopefully with some table tops on the flatter section.

When they move over to Temptor I hope that we can get them to incorporate some sort of kicker into them somewhere.


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## gmcunni (Oct 18, 2009)

i think a kicker simply makes sense. doesn't have to be a big one but something to help out those of us that need to work on air.  

a little pop with a decent landing is all we'd need.  can't be any more dangerous than the stuff that gets put up in the park.


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## Beast_Ed (Oct 18, 2009)

Let me know when Gunbarrel bumps up - thanks


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## MR. evil (Oct 18, 2009)

We also only need a kicker on one side of the trail so that those that don't want to hit the kicker can have a longer line of moguls. Personally I will be hitting the kicker as much as possible. I need all the practice I can get. 

Fwiw the kickers on GB for the comp were real nice!


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## Greg (Oct 19, 2009)

Personally, I think the "steep" section on Temptor should only be bumps outside of prepping for the comp. It's so short as it is. When the kickers go in, it really disrupts the run. Yeah, I guess you could do one side, but I still think it's better to just leave it all bumped in case the best line sets up on the kicker side. I would prefer to see table top type jumps on the upper and/or lower flats.


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## bvibert (Oct 19, 2009)

I'd rather see a kicker up in the bumps, only on one side.


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## gmcunni (Oct 19, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I'd rather see a kicker up in the bumps, only on one side.



I'm with B.  lines develop where people ski... if people don't want to ski the kicker the line will be down the other side of the trail.  if people want to ski both then we'll have 2 great lines!!


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## Greg (Oct 19, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> lines develop where people ski...



Disagreed. The bump lines, especially mid-winter, are pretty much determined by the seeding job. It actually amazes me how much bumps don't really change that much mid-winter, unless there's an epic dump. Which, of course, we'll get many of this year. :lol:


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## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2009)

I was always under the impression that putting a kicker in a bump field creates a liability issue for ski areas as it's not 'freestyle' terrain.  At least that's what I've read in previous discussions as to why areas have huge 70 foot tabletops, yet X off kickers from previous competitions or team practice set ups.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2009)

The above thought was the motivation for the following thread:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/53783-would-you-pay-ski-mogul-course.html


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## bvibert (Oct 19, 2009)

A kicker in the bumps is no more dangerous than any of the features in a terrain park.  Mark it as another type of terrain park and I don't see the difference.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2009)

I don't either.  Just the response I've received when asking why they don't have kickers set up on seeded bump runs, which they should have at EVERY mountain


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## gmcunni (Oct 19, 2009)

Greg said:


> Disagreed. The bump lines, especially mid-winter, are pretty much determined by the seeding job. It actually amazes me how much bumps don't really change that much mid-winter, unless there's an epic dump. Which, of course, we'll get many of this year. :lol:



STFU.  B and me want a kicker, end of story.


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## mondeo (Oct 19, 2009)

Overshooting a landing zone in a bump field is a recipe for a major knee injury, or concussion and broken eye socket. If you overshoot in a terrain park, most often the landing will suck but you can get through it because you're still not landing on the upslope of the next jump.

Now if you simply extend the landing zone in bump runs so that no one will ever overshoot, chances of injury are probably the same for similar size jumps.

Landings are also harder to maintain where you cant fit a groomer.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that the injury risk is higher in the bumps, even with the upslope.  The kids in the terrain parks are often 20 feet in the air and traveling at a much faster rate of speed on impact.


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## gmcunni (Oct 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that the injury risk is higher in the bumps, even with the upslope.  The kids in the terrain parks are often 20 feet in the air and traveling at a much faster rate of speed on impact.



agreed and if the kicker is anywhere but the top u actually have to ski the bumps to get it it and that weeds out those not worthy.


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## mondeo (Oct 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that the injury risk is higher in the bumps, even with the upslope.  The kids in the terrain parks are often 20 feet in the air and traveling at a much faster rate of speed on impact.


Absolute speed and height aren't important, it's the component of velocity perpendicular to the ground upon impact that is. Crashing on a 20 degree downslope is a whole lot different than on a 20 degree upslope.


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## 2knees (Oct 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Absolute speed and height aren't important, it's the component of velocity perpendicular to the ground upon impact that is.



go sit in effin timeout for even trying to make this sound complicated.

god damn.


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## Beast_Ed (Oct 19, 2009)

I'd pay extra if each ski area would blow a little snow on the bump runs overnight, so I can rip freshy fresh the next day.  I just need 3 to 4" of cover, fresh each day.  

Can they do that for me?  If so, where do I send my check!!!

B-Stead


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## 2knees (Oct 19, 2009)

Beast_Ed said:


> I'd pay extra if each ski area would blow a little snow on the bump runs overnight, so I can rip freshy fresh the next day.  I just need 3 to 4" of cover, fresh each day.
> 
> Can they do that for me?  If so, where do I send my check!!!
> 
> B-Stead



sundown refreshes temptor on an incredibly regular basis.  unfortunately, its waaay to short a run to make it worth your drive.  but being 35 minutes away is another story.


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## powhunter (Oct 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> it's the component of velocity perpendicular to the ground upon impact that is.



+1


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## Beast_Ed (Oct 19, 2009)

2knees said:


> sundown refreshes temptor on an incredibly regular basis.  unfortunately, its waaay to short a run to make it worth your drive.  but being 35 minutes away is another story.



Hey, you never know.  Let me know sometime when the bumps are good and I'll drive down.  It's about 2 hours from my home just west of Boston.  I am no mega-ski-area snob - I will shred the Jane and Sundown in the same month and be pleased by both!


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## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Absolute speed and height aren't important, i





I'm sorry, you can put your air craft / engineer spin on it all you want, the risk of serious injury is much higher off jumps in terrain parks than from a mogul kicker.

As Gary mentioned, you at least have to have skill to make it through the bumps with any sort of speed to go into the kicker with any chance of overshooting most landings.  On the other hand, any Joey can go flying off the giant table tops and land flat.  

You put a kicker in a mogul field and 90% of the people going off of it are going to be semi-old, semi-gaper dudes like those of us posting in this thread who simply want to get a bit of practice landing their half spreads, pole daffys, dumper airs and 2 o'clock twisters.  

I won't even get into the damage people can do to themselves riding rails.  

I stand by my argument that having a kicker in a bump field is WAY, WAY, WAY, less of a liability for a resort than their terrain parks.


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## MogulQueen (Oct 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that the injury risk is higher in the bumps, even with the upslope.  The kids in the terrain parks are often 20 feet in the air and traveling at a much faster rate of speed on impact.



+1
Kickers in a mogul field, if built correctly, just launch you straight up.  They slow you down and they have an easy steep landing to set you up for the next bump.


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## powhunter (Oct 20, 2009)

One solution is to place the kicker at the bottom of the bump lines...that way you still get the transition from the bumps to the kicker....Also agree with mogulqueen....a properly built kicker will launch you up, and have a decent downhill landing...There is also a lot of work involved "shoveling" to  keep it, and the landing in good shape

steveo


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

powhunter said:


> One solution is to place the kicker at the bottom of the bump lines...that way you still get the transition from the bumps to the kicker



works for me as long as the landing isn't flat.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 20, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> works for me as long as the landing isn't flat.



well if they seed tempter to the point they did last year the landing will certainly be on a flat.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 20, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> well if they seed tempter to the point they did last year the landing will certainly be on a flat.



perhaps why Greg recommended a table top on the flats?

Maybe the solution is to have one table top up top leading into the bumps, so people can work on their transitions from landing to hitting the zipper and then one at the bottom to work on exiting the zipper and off a jump.


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## Greg (Oct 20, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> well if they seed tempter to the point they did last year the landing will certainly be on a flat.



Yep. which is why I suggest small tabletops. Sure, not mogul kicker type jumps, but at least those of us that need to get more comfortable in the air can do so without burning 6 of the 20 moguls turns on Temptor. :lol:


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

powhunter said:


> One solution is to place the kicker at the bottom of the bump lines...that way you still get the transition from the bumps to the kicker....Also agree with mogulqueen....a properly built kicker will launch you up, and have a decent downhill landing...There is also a lot of work involved "shoveling" to  keep it, and the landing in good shape
> 
> steveo





Grassi21 said:


> well if they seed tempter to the point they did last year the landing will certainly be on a flat.



tru dat... "finish line" area on temptor wouldn't work.. if it was back a bit it might. still not clear *WHERE* on stinger they plan to set up but i don't think there is too much flatness on that trail so the end might not be bad.


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## powhunter (Oct 20, 2009)

tabletop landing????


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## 2knees (Oct 20, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> i'm sorry, you can put your air craft / engineer spin on it all you want, the risk of serious injury is much higher off jumps in terrain parks than from a mogul kicker.
> 
> As gary mentioned, you at least have to have skill to make it through the bumps with any sort of speed to go into the kicker with any chance of overshooting most landings.  On the other hand, any joey can go flying off the giant table tops and land flat.
> 
> ...



read my signature BITCH!


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## Puck it (Oct 20, 2009)

2knees said:


> read my signature BITCH!


 

Your signature left off one key factor in the impact claculation.  


MASS!


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## jarrodski (Oct 20, 2009)

woah... heat in a sundown thread... wierd... 

it was brought up once already... maintaining a feature with out a snow cat.... in southern new england... on a trail that is already pretty short (where the good bumps are) and .... right next to a trail that has small and medium jumps on it that are maintained consistantly through out the day....

kind of talks me out of building temptor bump jumps.... Gunny bump jumps i fully am behind... but temptor?  i really feel as though it kills the rythem of a short section that is steep enough to be called good.  

how about an informal (possibly useless) poll on this... consistant bumps down the last steep?  or bump jumps with mogul skier designed pop and landing?


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## 2knees (Oct 20, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> woah... heat in a sundown thread... wierd...




it's all in jest, trust me on that.


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## 2knees (Oct 20, 2009)

*For sundowners only Jump or No Jump on Temptor*

Jarrod mentioned this in the other thread and personally, i think its kind of a big deal.  Vote on it!


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> woah... heat in a sundown thread... wierd...
> 
> it was brought up once already... maintaining a feature with out a snow cat.... in southern new england... on a trail that is already pretty short (where the good bumps are) and .... right next to a trail that has small and medium jumps on it that are maintained consistantly through out the day....



WTF - ur crew makes snow and does rail jams in the summer, u can't handle THIS?



ishovelsnow said:


> kind of talks me out of building temptor bump jumps.... Gunny bump jumps i fully am behind... but temptor?  i really feel as though it kills the rythem of a short section that is steep enough to be called good.



i don't know shit about maintaing a bump run, f*ck, i can barely ski one but temptor can easily handle 3 lines. why couldn't one of the side lines have a small kicker 3/4 way down where there is still some pitch.  jeez, set it up, if no one uses it after a few weeks take it down.  Brian will help.



> how about an informal (possibly useless) poll on this... consistant bumps down the last steep?  or bump jumps with mogul skier designed pop and landing?


only if i can vote multiple times.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 20, 2009)

2knees said:


> Jarrod mentioned this in the other thread and personally, i think its kind of a big deal.  Vote on it!



Nice poll.  And I don't mean the ones doing a daffy in your avatar.


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## 2knees (Oct 20, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> Nice poll.  And I don't mean the ones doing a daffy in your avatar.



hey numnuts, I wasnt even done typing in the poll before you answered.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 20, 2009)

2knees said:


> hey numnuts, I wasnt even done typing in the poll before you answered.



epic fail


;-)  :lol:


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

can we close the poll by 10/30? my season pass purchase decision is contingent on the results.


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## 2knees (Oct 20, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> can we close the poll by 10/30? my season pass purchase decision is contingent on the results.




now THAT's takin it seriously.


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## MrMagic (Oct 20, 2009)

i voted yes


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## jarrodski (Oct 20, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> WTF - ur crew makes snow and does rail jams in the summer, u can't handle THIS?.
> i don't know shit about maintaing a bump run, f*ck, i can barely ski one but temptor can easily handle 3 lines. why couldn't one of the side lines have a small kicker 3/4 way down where there is still some pitch.  jeez, set it up, if no one uses it after a few weeks take it down.  Brian will help.
> only if i can vote multiple times.




min. 1:47 shows us why i wouldnt want to put jumps closer to the edges... 

Brian is obviously the official tester... that should never be  question

the summer things are a termendous amount of work... but there are no other options to get the skiing itch out of our system in september october and november... options that involve snow cats and snow guns...


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

MrMagic said:


> i voted yes



as any true bumper would!  only washed up has-been old dudes with bad knees would vote NO on something so kewl as a kicker in the bumps @ might sundown.


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> min. 1:47 shows us why i wouldnt want to put jumps closer to the edges...



pffft, that was an equipment malfunction. he nailed the 3 and if the binding didn't pop he'd have been fine.

or put the kicker in the middle lane with the  "lame" lanes on the outside. that is ok with me and B.


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## Greg (Oct 20, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> woah... heat in a sundown thread... wierd...
> 
> it was brought up once already... maintaining a feature with out a snow cat.... in southern new england... on a trail that is already pretty short (where the good bumps are) and .... right next to a trail that has small and medium jumps on it that are maintained consistantly through out the day....
> 
> ...



You know us, Jarrod, blowing off a precious bump run to practice air on Stinger just ain't gonna happen. With that said, I still don't support kickers on Temptor which as you said is short enough as it is. I understand why some people want them though.

I'm going to guess they are going to be too rough to hit more often than not, especially mid-winter, and if the landings aren't maintained. I spent 20 minute once breaking up a landing so we could practice and I'm not interested in doing that again. Just not worth it IMO. A few days before the comp? Sure, stick one in there. I would support tables on the flats though and they would be easy to maintain with a cat on the bottom section.


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

Greg said:


> You know us, Jarrod, blowing off a precious bump run to practice air on Stinger just ain't gonna happen. With that said, I still don't support kickers on Temptor which as you said is short enough as it is. I understand why some people want them though.
> 
> I'm going to guess they are going to be too rough to hit more often than not, especially mid-winter, and if the landings aren't maintained. I spent 20 minute once breaking up a landing so we could practice and I'm not interested in doing that again. Just not worth it IMO. A few days before the comp? Sure, stick one in there. I would support tables on the flats though and they would be easy to maintain with a cat on the bottom section.



grrrr :uzi:


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## Greg (Oct 20, 2009)

And I'll say this - if Sundown does go with the majority on this one, I better see more than just absorbing the kicker or some lame ass dumper air during the comps out of those that voted YES here - a 2 O' Clock Twister, a Nossack, or a Laffy at a minimum, please...


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

i've marked up Jarrod's picture to show the optimal solution.

obviously temptor can hold 3 lines, put a kicker in the middle

line 1 + 2 for those who don't feel they need/like/want a kicker
line 3 for the rest of us.







when u move the kickers make sure you take the one from the left side (of picture), the one on the right wasn't good last year, it made me fall.


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## bvibert (Oct 20, 2009)

Greg said:


> And I'll say this - if Sundown does go with the majority on this one, I better see more than just absorbing the kicker or some lame ass dumper air during the comps out of those that voted YES here - a 2 O' Clock Twister, a Nossack, or a Laffy at a minimum, please...



That would be the purpose of having them there to practice on.  A monster dumper air at the very least. 

I can see the point about the kickers being difficult to maintain in the middle of the bump fields.  If that's the case then I would settle for a table top at the bottom of the run.  If I have to.


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## bvibert (Oct 20, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i've marked up Jarrod's picture to show the optimal solution.
> 
> obviously temptor can hold 3 lines, put a kicker in the middle
> 
> ...



I think it would be better with one kicker on the side, where the right one was last year, but I'll be happy either way.  I'll be happy to spend a little time maintaining/testing the kickers...


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

bvibert said:


> ....then I would settle for a table top at the bottom of the run.  If I have to.



DO NOT SETTLE!  











(this is here to defeat the no yelling filter)


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## jarrodski (Oct 20, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i've marked up Jarrod's picture to show the optimal solution.
> 
> obviously temptor can hold 3 lines, put a kicker in the middle
> 
> ...




its in storage... i;ll dust it off


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## bvibert (Oct 20, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> its in storage... i;ll dust it off



Do you store it in the same place as the bumps?


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## downhill04 (Oct 20, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> min. 1:47 shows us why i wouldnt want to put jumps closer to the edges...
> 
> Brian is obviously the official tester... that should never be  question
> 
> the summer things are a termendous amount of work... but there are no other options to get the skiing itch out of our system in september october and november... options that involve snow cats and snow guns...



I was wondering why I have a killer headache today, now I know why :dunce:

I obviously need the kicker to practice my crashes. Actually I am going to be on the DL all season  Having some rods and screws installed in my back next month so I can take a few more crashes like that. 

I will run the camera at bump or bust if you want :-(


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

downhill04 said:


> Actually I am going to be on the DL all season  Having some rods and screws installed in my back next month ...



very sorry to hear that


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## bvibert (Oct 20, 2009)

downhill04 said:


> Actually I am going to be on the DL all season  Having some rods and screws installed in my back next month so I can take a few more crashes like that.



Bummer dude!  You'll be the bionic man when you come back though! 8)


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## Greg (Oct 20, 2009)

downhill04 said:


> I obviously need the kicker to practice my crashes. Actually I am going to be on the DL all season  Having some rods and screws installed in my back next month so I can take a few more crashes like that.



Jay - that sucks. You just can't catch a break. Looking forward to an epic comeback in 2010-11...


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## deadheadskier (Oct 20, 2009)

downhill04 said:


> I was wondering why I have a killer headache today, now I know why :dunce:
> 
> I obviously need the kicker to practice my crashes. Actually I am going to be on the DL all season  Having some rods and screws installed in my back next month so I can take a few more crashes like that.
> 
> I will run the camera at bump or bust if you want :-(



bummed to hear it man.  

get well soon


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

mods - add 1 to the YES vote.  jake, an AZ'er by proxy and bump and bust alumni  says we need the kicker.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 20, 2009)

shouldn't this be open an open poll to all Azers?  I mean we have to suffer through all your damn videos. At least a kicker would add to the entertainment value! :razz:


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## gmcunni (Oct 20, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> shouldn't this be open an open poll to all Azers?  I mean we have to suffer through all your damn videos. At least a kicker would add to the entertainment value! :razz:



ok with me as long as u vote YES. if you are voting NO then u should not be allowed to participate.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 20, 2009)

got my vote Gary.  Excellent campaigning tactics!


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## WJenness (Oct 20, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> ok with me as long as u vote YES. if you are voting NO then u should not be allowed to participate.





deadheadskier said:


> got my vote Gary.  Excellent campaigning tactics!



Vote Early! Vote Often!

-w


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## mondeo (Oct 20, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Your signature left off one key factor in the impact claculation.
> 
> 
> MASS!


But you can reasonably assume that capacity to absorb energy scales with mass. Taller people have a longer distance to absorb, heavier builds go along with stronger bones and mucles. I'd change it to body fat percentage.

Complicate that, b*tch!


2knees said:


> read my signature BITCH!


Truly a crowning moment in my life, making it into 2knees's signature.


gmcunni said:


> i don't know shit about maintaing a bump run, f*ck, i can barely ski one but temptor can easily handle 3 lines. why couldn't one of the side lines have a small kicker 3/4 way down where there is still some pitch. jeez, set it up, if no one uses it after a few weeks take it down. Brian will help.


On this subject, say, for example, there was an individual that happened to be at Sundown every frakking weeknight. What would it take to get a shovel in his hands for the bump run du mois?


gmcunni said:


> pffft, that was an equipment malfunction. he nailed the 3 and if the binding didn't pop he'd have been fine.


Incidentally, the binding didn't break, it just stuck. Dial down the DIN and pop it back into position, even with the DIN below 0 (though reading 3 due to the screwed up position) it will take a decent amount of force.

That crash is a perfect example of what I was talking about as far as dangers go. Had he not landed on a bump, he'd be fine. Even if he landed on his side he probably wouldn't have sustained nearly as serious of injuries for that same size jump in a park.


gmcunni said:


> i've marked up Jarrod's picture to show the optimal solution.
> 
> obviously temptor can hold 3 lines, put a kicker in the middle
> 
> ...


One of the big problems with any jumps on Temptor is that, being so narrow, it'll completely bork whatever other lines exist at the point of the jump. The last bump in the #3 line shown above was a complete wall. A complete wall that cost me several hundred dollars and a trip to Killington and back the morning of the bump comp.


downhill04 said:


> I obviously need the kicker to practice my crashes. Actually I am going to be on the DL all season  Having some rods and screws installed in my back next month so I can take a few more crashes like that.
> 
> I will run the camera at bump or bust if you want :-(


Damn, major bummer. Here's hoping for a good recovery so you can at least make it onto the snow at some point this season.



Greg said:


> You know us, Jarrod, blowing off a precious bump run to practice air on Stinger just ain't gonna happen. With that said, I still don't support kickers on Temptor which as you said is short enough as it is. I understand why some people want them though.
> 
> I'm going to guess they are going to be too rough to hit more often than not, especially mid-winter, and if the landings aren't maintained. I spent 20 minute once breaking up a landing so we could practice and I'm not interested in doing that again. Just not worth it IMO. A few days before the comp? Sure, stick one in there. I would support tables on the flats though and they would be easy to maintain with a cat on the bottom section.


Pssh. All you guys need to do is develop a complete lack of a life. You'll have plenty of time to mix in park runs.

The upper flats are too flat, the lower flat you might be able to get something in. Maybe a step-down, with a bunch of kick? Or even a step-up could work, force these guys to hit it with speed or be screwed.


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## jarrodski (Oct 21, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Pssh. All you guys need to do is develop a complete lack of a life. You'll have plenty of time to mix in park runs.




it it a lack of life.... or is it THE life....


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## campgottagopee (Oct 21, 2009)

Voted no. From what I can tell you guys can't handle it


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## downhill04 (Oct 21, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Incidentally, the binding didn't break, it just stuck. Dial down the DIN and pop it back into position, even with the DIN below 0 (though reading 3 due to the screwed up position) it will take a decent amount of force.



Actually the binding did break. I have the pieces out in my garage. Maybe I can mount them to your skis for the first comp this year. Who knows maybe I will get the ok from the doc to get on the hill a little early and school you.


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## gmcunni (Oct 21, 2009)

downhill04 said:


> Actually the binding did break. I have the pieces out in my garage. Maybe I can mount them to your skis for the first comp this year. Who knows maybe I will get the ok from the doc to get on the hill a little early and school you.



That's what i talkin' bout!


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## gmcunni (Oct 21, 2009)

i call for the immediate shunning of the following AZ'ers:


> NO
> 2knees, Greg, Madroch, mondeo, o3jeff, skidmarks


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## severine (Oct 21, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i call for the immediate shunning of the following AZ'ers:



You're awfully feisty these days!


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## mondeo (Oct 21, 2009)

downhill04 said:


> Actually the binding did break. I have the pieces out in my garage. Maybe I can mount them to your skis for the first comp this year. Who knows maybe I will get the ok from the doc to get on the hill a little early and school you.


Huh, I remembered it just doing the same thing mine did when I broke my wrist.

I stand corrected.


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## 2knees (Oct 22, 2009)

Greg said:


> without burning 6 of the 20 moguls turns on Temptor. :lol:



I missed this until now.  This is my contention as well.  And you arent misrepresenting the amount of turns either.  I've actually counted the turns on temptor, and they always end up between 17 and 22.  that's it.  not worth losing 1/3rd of them for a kicker.


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## bvibert (Oct 22, 2009)

It's not like the kicker would be all the way across the trail. :roll:


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## 2knees (Oct 22, 2009)

bvibert said:


> It's not like the kicker would be all the way across the trail. :roll:



not the point. 

Put a kicker on the side and it still forces a major cross cut section where everybody has to avoid the hit.  And the hit will take up its own share of bumps in its line.  anyway you cut it, whenever there are kickers set up, the lines arent as long or continous.

I'm in complete favor of kickers on bump trails just not in this case. trail is too short.  terrain park next door. 

Gunny should have at least 4, 2 side by side hits, all spring.  O.L., White Heat, True Grit, Slalom Glade, you name it, they should all have them.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2009)

Are Gunny and Temptor the only true options for bump runs at Sundown?  Gunny looked pretty sick last spring.  You really don't need more than 4-500 solid vert of bumps.  Well, at least my out of shape ass doesn't.  :lol:


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## gmcunni (Oct 22, 2009)

2knees said:


> not the point.
> 
> Put a kicker on the side and it still forces a major cross cut section where everybody has to avoid the hit.  And the hit will take up its own share of bumps in its line.  anyway you cut it, whenever there are kickers set up, the lines arent as long or continous.


establish the kicker AFTER the bumps have been worked in so as to not infringe on the best line(s).



> I'm in complete favor of kickers on bump trails just not in this case. trail is too short.  terrain park next door.



i want my cake and to eat it too. not interested in wasting a run down stinger to practice a jump.   i want to hit bumps "all the way" down temptor on most runs. I want to hit some bumps and then a kicker on a few runs.  i then want to make a sharp right and hit the bumps on exhibition.  i want to do that over and over and over in 4 hour shifts many times til March.


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## 2knees (Oct 23, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> establish the kicker AFTER the bumps have been worked in so as to not infringe on the best line(s).
> 
> 
> 
> i want my cake and to eat it too. not interested in wasting a run down stinger to practice a jump.   i want to hit bumps "all the way" down temptor on most runs. I want to hit some bumps and then a kicker on a few runs.  i then want to make a sharp right and hit the bumps on exhibition.  i want to do that over and over and over in 4 hour shifts many times til March.



perfect solution.  Put the kicker on the section of nor'easter they bump up or put it on the section of exhibition.

personally, i find it all too flat, but if you want a kicker, dont f up the only section of bumps we get with even a semblance of pitch.


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## gmcunni (Oct 23, 2009)

with a less obnoxious tone- i am in favor of a kicker. not one that comes close to resembling what was on temptor for the comp.  more like what was on GB the week after the comp (it was knocked down considerably) or even smaller. just a little pop with a non-flat landing.


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## gmcunni (Oct 23, 2009)

2knees said:


> perfect solution.  Put the kicker on the section of nor'easter they bump up or put it on the section of exhibition.



i can live with something on the upper section of Noreaster. 

i think putting it on exhibtion is an accident waitign to happen... although throughout this thread i kept thinking about the little pop that developed at the end of EX last year as almost exactly what i wanted, just without the flat landing.


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## 2knees (Oct 23, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Are Gunny and Temptor the only true options for bump runs at Sundown?



Nope.  the best trail at sundown has been turned into the terrain park the last 3 years.  Sullivan and Moss are to blame.....:flame:

seriously though, stinger has the most consistent pitch on the hill and USED to be their bump run.


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## severine (Oct 23, 2009)

2knees said:


> perfect solution.  Put the kicker on the section of nor'easter they bump up or put it on the section of exhibition.


I agree with Gary that a kicker on the Ex bumps is an accident waiting to happen. They've had enough issues with people cutting in to use the last row or two of bumps as kickers as it is (and I'm guilty of that  until I realized that it wasn't a wise idea).

Gary - I liked that pop a lot, but you're right that the flat landing sucked. Still, I hit it quite a few times.


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## Glenn (Oct 23, 2009)

This thread delivers. My Sundown jones just went up an Emeril notch or two....


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

2knees said:


> not the point.
> 
> Put a kicker on the side and it still forces a major cross cut section where everybody has to avoid the hit.  And the hit will take up its own share of bumps in its line.  anyway you cut it, whenever there are kickers set up, the lines arent as long or continous.
> 
> ...



+1

Get your air practice in on Stinger at the beginning of the season when there are bumps on it. Aside from burning up mogul potential and changing the characteristics of Temptor, I'm willing to bet a kicker there in December and January will be unskiable at least half the time, if not more. Just not worth it.



2knees said:


> Nope.  the best trail at sundown has been turned into the terrain park the last 3 years.  Sullivan and Moss are to blame.....:flame:
> 
> seriously though, stinger has the most consistent pitch on the hill and USED to be their bump run.



Stinger should be a fun run to start on this year. It should be interesting to see if the park rats trash some of the bumps. But actually, I think it's a good opportunity to get some of the kids interested in mogul skiing, especially when they see us radical old dudes ripping them. ill! :lol: Hell, maybe we'll dink around on some the park elements too...

So 2knees - get your pass yet? Or are you just going to *hope *there's a better mogul option up north? :lol:


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## bvibert (Oct 23, 2009)

You guys are getting pretty worked up about this.  Take it easy, it's just bumps. :roll:

I'm gonna advocate for one big kicker across the entire trail.  Mandatory air beothes! :lol:


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Mandatory air beothes! :lol:



For some. Others might just absorb it, or nervously attempt a dumper air...


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## Grassi21 (Oct 23, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i can live with something on the upper section of Noreaster.
> 
> i think putting it on exhibtion is an accident waitign to happen... although throughout this thread i kept thinking about the little pop that developed at the end of EX last year as almost exactly what i wanted, just without the flat landing.



i loved that little pop you are talking about on ex.  i wasn't catching any real air off it but it was giving me that weightless sensation and had to land with good balance.


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## gmcunni (Oct 23, 2009)

just to keep beating this dead horse.. (where is that emoticon when u need it)...

sounds like most of the NO voters are worried that an air-inducing mound of snow will eliminate or interfere with a primo zip line.

*IF* that was not the case, *IF* the air-inducing mound of snow was not interfering, are you still opposed to it?


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> just to keep beating this dead horse.. (where is that emoticon when u need it)...
> 
> sounds like most of the NO voters are worried that an air-inducing mound of snow will eliminate or interfere with a primo zip line.
> 
> *IF* that was not the case, *IF* the air-inducing mound of snow was not interfering, are you still opposed to it?



I guess not. Two decent T2B  lines on the steep section of Temptor would satisfy me. Based on past experience though, I'm not sure that would ever happen. Usually only one "good" line sets up as it is - we normally call it the "money line". If the best line happens to set up in line with the jump, you just shortened that money line by 1/3. Like 2knees mentioned earlier, the mere presence of a kicker is going to disrupt much of the width of the trail as most people skirt around it so it's not just the line leading into the kicker that concerns me, but also the ones to the left and right too. Go back and look at Jarrod's video. There are only 6 lines at best, so a single jump reduces the potential for a good T2B line by half.

Now for you folks that typically stop on the run to gather yourselves and ski Temptor in short sections, not a big deal. For ill bumpers like Pat and me that want to link a line all in one shot, it is... :razz: 

I still say a jump on an icy bump trail mid-winter is going to usually be too rough to ski and hit with any authority for most of us. I really believe you guys would have more fun hitting a small table or two in the lower flats that they can maintain with a groomer. That's a spot that we usually blow off and straightline on the way back to the lift anyway...


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## bvibert (Oct 23, 2009)

Greg said:


> For some. Others might just absorb it, or nervously attempt a dumper air...



Nothing nervous about that mad skill right there.


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## gmcunni (Oct 23, 2009)

Greg said:


> For ill bumpers like Pat and me . .


putting yourself in pat's league huh???  




> I really believe you guys would have more fun hitting a small table or two in the lower flats that they can maintain with a groomer.


got a picture of something like what you're talking about?


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> putting yourself in pat's league huh???



Not necessarily. But we are both in the "I can ski Temptor cleanly" league. I think you are too, Gary.



gmcunni said:


> got a picture of something like what you're talking about?



Borrowed from Sundown's Facebook page. Something like this on a smaller scale:






Or maybe stick a more pitched kicker on top of the table like this, but at like 1/20th the scale:






What would be really cool is if the blew a massive whale on the Temptor flat and built a table with pitched/daily groomed landings all along it and added 2 or 3 different height/pitched kickers. That whale could then be knocked down once Gunny is seeded and used for patchwork at the base or building big booters like the ones pictured above on Stinger.


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## gmcunni (Oct 23, 2009)

Greg said:


> Not necessarily. But we are both in the "I can ski Temptor cleanly" league. I think you are too, Gary.


u kno i'm just bustin'




> Borrowed from Sundown's Facebook page. Something like this on a smaller scale:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i preliminarly accept the proposal of the "NAY Sayers" but need to confere with my colleagues in the "YES contingent" before we sign anything.

can we get custom writing on the face of the kicker? u should get one of those cardboard templates and we can spray paint alpinezone logos on the thing.


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## jarrodski (Oct 23, 2009)

any feature along the top flat area of temptor by the cliff would not be maintained with a cat... if the snow is at all soft the existing bumps would be flattened.  causing angry mogul dudes... 

Nor' Easter bumps may be the compromise you're all looking for if that flies with "THE MAN"

the two jumps greg posted are constructed terrain features - - - readily available 100 feet from where you are talking about skiing every single run of your winter....

they require certain risk management considerations... 


the "cheese wedge" style jumps are only made for comps and photo shoots

the table top shown in the picture by greg is a nightmare to maintain and would never have been shaped like that if it was in a different spot of the mountain... therefore if we opted for that style jump it would look different.  

Greg raises a valid point..................... Dec. and January on temptor is a very winter (firm) trail and there's no good way to put a kicker in the steep with out sacrificing moguls.


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## o3jeff (Oct 23, 2009)

Whats the better trail for the bumps? Temptor or Nor'easter?<newbquestion>


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## Grassi21 (Oct 23, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Whats the better trail for the bumps? Temptor or Nor'easter?<newbquestion>



Temptor has better pitch for it.  Thinking back to when they seeded NE, there were a lot more bumps on NE compared to Temptor.  Dare I say sacrifice pitch for length of the run?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 23, 2009)

I've always wondered why they don't build mogul comp style jumps in terrain parks.  Unlike the regular hits, jut rope off an area to build a 'pop' up jump as opposed to the typical table top.  It would definitely need to be roped to slow folks down from hitting it at mach schnell.


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> any feature along the top flat area of temptor by the cliff would not be maintained with a cat... if the snow is at all soft the existing bumps would be flattened.  causing angry mogul dudes...
> 
> Nor' Easter bumps may be the compromise you're all looking for if that flies with "THE MAN"
> 
> ...



I was thinking something on the lower flats of Temptor on the way out towards Exhibition, easily maintainable by a groomer that heads up in there to groom anyway. I also wasn't suggesting anything anywhere near the size of the booters in those pics.

Your point about Stinger having a ton of air options is well taken. A few comments on that:

1 - as we said, many of us don't want to blow off a bump run to hit a few jumps. Totally our own selfish viewpoint, I admit that. There are many times that I plan to hit Stinger or some other run, but I find myself simply heading towards the bumps anyway. It's almost automatic; sort of a mogul tractor beam that pulls us in despite other intentions. It would just be nice to have a run where we could hit moguls and then have one nice kicker to throw down some cheesy old school air. The early bumps on Stinger should be a treat for this reason.

2 - The jumps on Stinger seem to be more of the "out" not "up" variety. Still useful for building nerve and getting comfy in the air, but not quite mogul kicker type practice.

3 - Finally, please look at this as constructive criticism. I'm pretty sure I speak for many when I say we are insanely appreciative of the effort you guys put forth in offering terrain for us mogul nuts, as well as just about every other type of skier out there despite limited acreage.


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## bvibert (Oct 23, 2009)

Greg said:


> 3 - Finally, please look at this as constructive criticism. I'm pretty sure I speak for many when I say we are insanely appreciative of the effort you guys put forth in offering terrain for us mogul nuts, as well as just about every other type of skier out there despite limited acreage.



+1 million.  Not even criticism of any kind, more of a wish list.

If this season went exactly like last season I wouldn't complain one bit.


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## gmcunni (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> any feature along the top flat area of temptor by the cliff would not be maintained with a cat... if the snow is at all soft the existing bumps would be flattened.  causing angry mogul dudes...
> 
> Nor' Easter bumps may be the compromise you're all looking for if that flies with "THE MAN"
> 
> ...




there was a nice (to me) sized table top over in the sunnyside area just before the lift. how about something like that on temptor after the bumps?


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> Temptor has better pitch for it.  Thinking back to when they seeded NE, there were a lot more bumps on NE compared to Temptor.  Dare I say sacrifice pitch for length of the run?



Lower Nor'easter is only a tad longer than the Temptor "steeps" by about 100 feet or so. I'll take the additional pitch anyday. In either case we've been getting "Middle" Nor'easter from the sun deck to the Temptor merge. The turn with bumps that drops down into the Temptor flats is a lot of fun and sometimes you can ski up the whale that builds up on the cliffs. Then you get the Temptor "headwall" lol. Way more interesting of a run than the Nor'easter bumps were.

Like how I managed to split Nor'easter into three trails? Upper, Middle and Lower. We can easily triple Sundown's trail count... :lol:



bvibert said:


> If this season went exactly like last season I wouldn't complain one bit.



Totally. If even we had just a repeat of March, I would be happy. Still, early Stinger bumps is going to be fun and different.



gmcunni said:


> there was a nice (to me) sized table top over in the sunnyside area just before the lift. how about something like that on temptor after the bumps?



Exactly! Perhaps a little more "pop" and we're in.


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## jarrodski (Oct 23, 2009)

Greg said:


> I was thinking something on the lower flats of Temptor on the way out towards Exhibition, easily maintainable by a groomer that heads up in there to groom anyway. I also wasn't suggesting anything anywhere near the size of the booters in those pics.
> 
> Your point about Stinger having a ton of air options is well taken. A few comments on that:
> 
> ...



here's the truth... i just need to understand what you want so we can provide it.  you guys are the real boss (customer 1st) and if we can provide a proper mogul venue that everyone can be proud of, then the segment will grow.  this is how parks came to be so prominent... provide what's wanted and do it right.  

the "out" not "up" jump design serves users better in countless ways but i'll simply say that it doesnt buck people into the back seat and its easier to maintain with machinery... if you guys want pop... we'll need to figure out a way to offer pop

as for your constructive criticism...its more like research from our end.  i dont ski bumps as a means for my jollies.  you guys do.  what do you want and how do we provide it is what we do for a living.


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## Grassi21 (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> here's the truth... i just need to understand what you want so we can provide it.  you guys are the real boss (customer 1st) and if we can provide a proper mogul venue that everyone can be proud of, then the segment will grow.  this is how parks came to be so prominent... provide what's wanted and do it right.
> 
> the "out" not "up" jump design serves users better in countless ways but i'll simply say that it doesnt buck people into the back seat and its easier to maintain with machinery... if you guys want pop... we'll need to figure out a way to offer pop
> 
> as for your constructive criticism...its more like research from our end.  i dont ski bumps as a means for my jollies.  you guys do.  what do you want and how do we provide it is what we do for a living.



^^^^^ This guy is a great guy.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> here's the truth... i just need to understand what you want so we can provide it.  you guys are the real boss (customer 1st) and if we can provide a proper mogul venue that everyone can be proud of, then the segment will grow.  this is how parks came to be so prominent... provide what's wanted and do it right.
> 
> the "out" not "up" jump design serves users better in countless ways but i'll simply say that it doesnt buck people into the back seat and its easier to maintain with machinery... if you guys want pop... we'll need to figure out a way to offer pop
> 
> as for your constructive criticism...its more like research from our end.  i dont ski bumps as a means for my jollies.  you guys do.  what do you want and how do we provide it is what we do for a living.



move to Ragged......PLEASE.  I think you'd love it there


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> here's the truth... i just need to understand what you want so we can provide it.  you guys are the real boss (customer 1st) and if we can provide a proper mogul venue that everyone can be proud of, then the segment will grow.  this is how parks came to be so prominent... provide what's wanted and do it right.
> 
> the "out" not "up" jump design serves users better in countless ways but i'll simply say that it doesnt buck people into the back seat and its easier to maintain with machinery... if you guys want pop... we'll need to figure out a way to offer pop
> 
> as for your constructive criticism...its more like research from our end.  i dont ski bumps as a means for my jollies.  you guys do.  what do you want and how do we provide it is what we do for a living.



If other mountains would take this approach, we'd all be better of! :beer:

Modeling a jump based on what we had on Gunny for the comp is good goal. Where the first ones were was pretty flat, probably not much steeper than the lower flats of Temptor. Granted, that was spring and the relatively flat landing was pretty soft so you would probably need to set up some sort of steeper in-run and landing on a flat firm trail like the bottom of Temptor mid-winter. Precisely why I suggested blowing a snotload of snow there which you can use to build something as needed. A secondary benefit would be a nice stock pile to be used later in the season. I remember the day last March  when you scraped Temptor to build up the big booter for S7...

Anyway, clear signage posted at the turn into Temptor would probably alleviate any liability concerns. Shit - call it an "all mountain" terrain park if you want. Maybe fence an entrance on the upper flats and build some whoops along the cliffs. People would still have the option to climb up out of there if need be. I've seen a few people do that anyway... :lol:


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## Madroch (Oct 23, 2009)

Just thankful for what we have.  Very much looking forward to stinger bumps-- a throwback to the glorious high school days in the early 80's when stinger was the bump trail-- staircase curving down the skiers right-- very nice....

My vote for no kicker was I don't want to lose a zipper line.  I need a lot of air work, but I will find it elsewhere... or I will simply continue to score below bvibbert in air!

I maintain I was robbed... for the record.


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## campgottagopee (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> here's the truth... i just need to understand what you want so we can provide it.  you guys are the real boss (customer 1st) and if we can provide a proper mogul venue that everyone can be proud of, then the segment will grow.  this is how parks came to be so prominent... provide what's wanted and do it right.
> 
> the "out" not "up" jump design serves users better in countless ways but i'll simply say that it doesnt buck people into the back seat and its easier to maintain with machinery... if you guys want pop... we'll need to figure out a way to offer pop
> 
> as for your constructive criticism...its more like research from our end.  i dont ski bumps as a means for my jollies.  you guys do.  what do you want and how do we provide it is what we do for a living.



Man-o-man could corp America learn from this guy or what....i LIKE IT


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## jarrodski (Oct 23, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Man-o-man could corp America learn from this guy or what....i LIKE IT



please dont let them find me


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## campgottagopee (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> please dont let them find me



I hear ya---seriously tho--I ski a small hill too Greek Peak, and being "small" you/we have these advantages over the "big boys". Does that mean size really doesn't matter??? I think not. :beer:

Gawd--what am I doing in a mogul thread


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## 2knees (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> here's the truth... i just need to understand what you want so we can provide it.  you guys are the real boss (customer 1st) and if we can provide a proper mogul venue that everyone can be proud of, then the segment will grow.  this is how parks came to be so prominent... provide what's wanted and do it right.
> 
> the "out" not "up" jump design serves users better in countless ways but i'll simply say that it doesnt buck people into the back seat and its easier to maintain with machinery... if you guys want pop... we'll need to figure out a way to offer pop
> 
> as for your constructive criticism...its more like research from our end.  i dont ski bumps as a means for my jollies.  you guys do.  what do you want and how do we provide it is what we do for a living.



you da man....


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## jarrodski (Oct 23, 2009)

2knees said:


> you da man....



you wanted 3 jumps on the steeps right?


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## 2knees (Oct 23, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> you wanted 3 jumps on the steeps right?




3 jumps on gunbarrel.  One on upper noreaster and a widow maker in the exhibition bumps.  preferably with an uphill landing so i can test the mathematics in my signature.

thank you sir.


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## thorski (Oct 24, 2009)

What is involved on march 20th during the SSSSSSS??


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2009)

http://www.skisundown.com/events/index.php?action=detail&id=409


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## jarrodski (Oct 27, 2009)

http://www.meatheadfilms.com/athletes/Randy-Grasso

and this guy!


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## Greg (Oct 27, 2009)

ishovelsnow said:


> http://www.meatheadfilms.com/athletes/Randy-Grasso
> 
> and this guy!



It was indeed cool to watch Randy ski in person so much. Real deal ripper.


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## bvibert (Oct 27, 2009)

Greg said:


> It was indeed cool to watch Randy ski in person so much. Real deal ripper.



And a cool guy to boot.  He seemed very friendly when I talked to him. :beer:


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## severine (Oct 27, 2009)

bvibert said:


> And a cool guy to boot.  He seemed very friendly when I talked to him. :beer:


Let's not forget...I'm WITH him.


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## gmcunni (Oct 27, 2009)

bump.... cuz that's what this thread is about


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## mondeo (Oct 27, 2009)

Hmm, 7 to 7. Tie break goes to those that don't want every good line to be broken up.


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## severine (Oct 27, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> bump.... cuz that's what this thread is about


Did you buy your pass yet?


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## bvibert (Oct 28, 2009)

I was talking to a former teacher of mine who's into skiing last night.  He typically heads north to ski on weekends and didn't seem to have too much interest in Sundown when I talked to him last fall.  Last night we were talking about skiing again and he comes out with "I gotta give it to Sundown, they let trails bump up!".  Apparently he went up there on a snow day when school was canceled and ripped the Gunny bumps all day.  It was really great to hear more appreciation of the bump philosophy at Sundown, especially from someone who isn't part of the AZ crowd. :beer:


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## Greg (Oct 28, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I was talking to a former teacher of mine who's into skiing last night.  He typically heads north to ski on weekends and didn't seem to have too much interest in Sundown when I talked to him last fall.  Last night we were talking about skiing again and he comes out with "I gotta give it to Sundown, they let trails bump up!".  Apparently he went up there on a snow day when school was canceled and ripped the Gunny bumps all day.  It was really great to hear more appreciation of the bump philosophy at Sundown, especially from someone who isn't part of the AZ crowd. :beer:



The word was definitely getting out last spring. Not sure how much of it is AZ, but there were several times last year I saw people I didn't recognize on bump skis there.


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## gmcunni (Oct 28, 2009)

severine said:


> Did you buy your pass yet?



nope, waiting on this poll to close so i know what i'm buying.. no kicker is lame!  :smash:


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## deadheadskier (Oct 28, 2009)

Greg said:


> The word was definitely getting out last spring. Not sure how much of it is AZ, but there were several times last year I saw people I didn't recognize on bump skis there.



and just think after Stevo's TV appearance last season..........place will be a mad house


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## Greg (Oct 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> and just think after Stevo's TV appearance last season..........place will be a mad house



I forgot about that! I tried to find them on the Fox 61 Web site with no luck. I Emailed them to see if they are still available.


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## powhunter (Oct 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> and just think after Stevo's TV appearance last season..........place will be a mad house




That was a trip ...just got back from a safety comittee meeting then Jarrod calls me over to get interviewed

steveo


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## o3jeff (Oct 28, 2009)

Greg said:


> I forgot about that! I tried to find them on the Fox 61 Web site with no luck. I Emailed them to see if they are still available.



Maybe they will send you the un-edited version with Steve doing the old school tip stand!


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## gmcunni (Feb 2, 2010)

any chance of an "authorized" opening in the fence between temptor and Stinger?  right at the end of temptor could you put in a little gate-like opening  to allow people to ski over so we could catch the last big air jump?

we don't need a big gap but something that would make the skier entering from Temptor stop so as not to cause an accident skiing into somebody flying down the park.  

i noticed last night small opening just past a little pine tree but i think that was too far down to hit the jump.


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