# Does anybody still not wear a helmet???



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

Does anybody still not wear a helmet skiing/riding???  Why?


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## Greg (Mar 13, 2009)

99% of the time I do. I didn't for the first time in a while last weekend skiing slush bumps when it was 55 degrees.


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## mondeo (Mar 13, 2009)

I'll take it off when it's warm. Slush is cushy enough to take the place of the helmet.

If I just skied groomers I wouldn't wear one. I can't remember the last time I fell when carving.


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## cbcbd (Mar 13, 2009)

I think I see more out here that don't than I did back East... maybe it's the icy conditions? One of the hardest local BC hardman almost never wears one and he's on some gnarly peaks... I don't get it, but whatever - skisickness.com


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

When it's warm I keep my vents open and if it's really warm I remove the padding on the ears..anyway I'm guessing 95% of the people I ski with wear a helmet..I've only been wearing one for 4 years..


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## Glenn (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't and my wife doesn't. Personal choice.


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## hammer (Mar 13, 2009)

My family and I always do...vent plugs will definitely be coming out this weekend. :smile:


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## dmc (Mar 13, 2009)

I rode a couple days in Kashmir without one...  We were climbing(13,000+ feet) and riding open terrain..

I know lots of people the are BC types that don't wear them...


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## danny p (Mar 13, 2009)

i wear a helmet until the sunglasses and sunblock come out...


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2009)

mondeo said:


> If I just skied groomers I wouldn't wear one. I can't remember the last time I fell when carving.



I find this statement totally bizarre.  

If there is one place I'd be most inclined to to wear a helmet, it would be on groomers for numerous reasons.  My rate of speed is significantly higher on groomers, snow can be much harder than bumps, risk of collision always seems higher to me as there tends to be more traffic and less skilled skiers, potential for shooting off the trail into the woods and hitting a tree seems much higher as you don't have bumps in the way to slow you down. 

I'm with you in that I can't remember the last time I fell while carving, but I think the risk of sustaining a serious head injury while skiing fast on groomers is far greater than when I'm skiing bumps or trees.  Skiing bumps these days is about the only place I don't wear one and that's only if it's all I plan on doing for the day and they're soft.


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## mondeo (Mar 13, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm with you in that I can't remember the last time I fell while carving, but I think the risk of sustaining a serious head injury while skiing fast on groomers is far greater than when I'm skiing bumps or trees.


Risk = Probability x Consequence. I agree the consequences are greater, but the probability is so much lower that it outweighs the consequences. The point is moot, though.


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## 2knees (Mar 13, 2009)

i'm wearing mine as i type this.....


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Risk = Probability x Consequence. I agree the consequences are greater, but the probability is so much lower that it outweighs the consequences. The point is moot, though.



I guess I just come at my stance from A. Personal experience in that the only time I've hurt my head badly was while skiing groomers and B. Most ski related deaths you read about in the east involve head trauma from a crash while someone was skiing at a high rate of speed on groomed terrain .  

I put the consequences of badly injuring your head skiing bumps (unless it''s a freak thing like Jay) at near zero.  If you hit your head in a crash going 40+ on a groomer the consequences are so much greater.

To each their own, but I find your logic flawed.

In math terms like you're using my feeling is this

Groomers
Risk (100) = Probability (4) x Consequences (25)

Bumps
Risk (50) = Probability (25) x Consequences (2)

I'm protecting my dome where the risk is double.


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## 2knees (Mar 13, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Risk = Probability x Consequence. I agree the consequences are greater, but the probability is so much lower that it outweighs the consequences. The point is moot, though.





deadheadskier said:


> ITo each their own, but I find your logic flawed.
> 
> In math terms like you're using my feeling is this
> 
> ...


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## hammer (Mar 13, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> If you hit your head in a crash going 40+ on a groomer the consequences are so much greater.


I thought that even having a helmet wouldn't help at this speed...

I don't ski fast, but fast enough...and I've seen my kids get into crashes where, if they didn't have their helmet on, they would have ended up in the hospital with a serious head injury.

That said, it's a personal choice.  I feel safer with a helmet on so I always wear one when skiing, but I'm not critical of those that choose not to.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2009)

2knees said:


>



probably a smart move on your part wearing your helmet even while on the computer.  My guess is you get smacked in the head pretty often :lol:


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## mondeo (Mar 13, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I guess I just come at my stance from A. Personal experience in that the only time I've hurt my head badly was while skiing groomers and B. Most ski related deaths you read about in the east involve head trauma from a crash while someone was skiing at a high rate of speed on groomed terrain .
> 
> I put the consequences of badly injuring your head skiing bumps (unless it''s a freak thing like Jay) at near zero. If you hit your head in a crash going 40+ on a groomer the consequences are so much greater.
> 
> ...


 
We're both just guessing at the numbers anyways. 

But it's actually not the bumps that are the reason I wear a helmet. It's skiing lines next to the woods, exposed rocks, terrain park, and flats drills. Get kicked out of a line and end up in the woods, I want a helmet. Skiing a natural snow bump run and fall on a rock, helmet. Launch a 20 ft booter backseat, want a helmet. Drilling flats, let my speed up too much, then catch an edge trying to do the same quick turns, I want a helmet. Middle of a well covered bump run or groomer while carving are both low risk to me.



2knees said:


>


Freaky. I just referenced that joke at lunch.


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## jack97 (Mar 13, 2009)

Feb vacation, just lapping bumps with my daughter, I got hit twice from behind. First was going to the lift line, kid must have wanted to speed ahead of me and thought he had the clearance. Second was going down a green trail on our last run for the day. The last one spun me around big time and I fell on the back of my head. I got up, wasn't mad but was annoyed and had some choice words for the kid. 

I've seen it dozens of times at wawa where out control skiers hit unsuspecting skiers/rider, never thought it would happen to me tho. I think i would be hurting big time if I wasn't wearing my helmet that day.


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## Greg (Mar 13, 2009)

Geez. :roll: I need a helmet just to protect myself when I throw my head through the freakin' computer monitor...


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## bvibert (Mar 13, 2009)

Greg said:


> Geez. :roll: I need a helmet just to protect myself when I throw my head through the freakin' computer monitor...



Why, did you think that Pi = 4?


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## Bumpsis (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Does anybody still not wear a helmet skiing/riding???  Why?



Hasn't this topic been beaten to death several times over???!!??
Grilledcheese, get a life or go and  sign up with some religious outfit so you get this preaching bug out of your system.


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## gmcunni (Mar 13, 2009)

Greg said:


> 99% of the time I do. I didn't for the first time in a while last weekend skiing slush bumps when it was 55 degrees.



same for me, except i did it the day before so greg was copying me.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

Glenn said:


> I don't and my wife doesn't. Personal choice.



what's the reason?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

Bumpsis said:


> Hasn't this topic been beaten to death several times over???!!??
> Grilledcheese, get a life or go and  sign up with some religious outfit so you get this preaching bug out of your system.



I'll ask any question I want to ask..


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## Glenn (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> what's the reason?



Preference.  Just how we (choo-choo) choose to ski. 

I could list a number of reasons, but then there would be a urinating contest.


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## gmcunni (Mar 13, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Why, did you think that Pi = 4?



tomorrow is Pi day.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 13, 2009)

Love the  brain bucket ,  Put away my  Giro Talon  and just brought out my spring lite weight one today -- what a freaking mistake ---------------------it was damn cold today windchill was NASTY


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

So some of you have helmet quivers?  I'm still on my first helmet..


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> So some of you have helmet quivers?  I'm still on my first helmet..



Yeah  i'm guilty -----------------  looking for a 3rd one  now too -- The Queen is MILDLY amused -- NOT

Steeze: u guys  still have your big pow wow with Blue Mgmt  tomorrow ??


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Yeah  i'm guilty -----------------  looking for a 3rd one  now too -- The Queen is MILDLY amused -- NOT
> 
> Steeze: u guys  still have your big pow wow with Blue Mgmt  tomorrow ??



Sunday and I found out the owner of Blue reads my TRs


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Sunday and I found out the owner of Blue reads my TRs



  :-- maybe they'll offer u a job as a PR Flack


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> :-- maybe they'll offer u a job as a PR Flack



that would be sweet..


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> that would be sweet..



Just stay calm and in control , pleasant yet factual will be  most effective way to go  -- good luck


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Just stay calm and in control , pleasant yet factual will be  most effective way to go  -- good luck



Thank You...one of the points I'm going to bring up is how the ski patrollers should be required to wear helmets..it sets a good example..


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## gmcunni (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Thank You...one of the points I'm going to bring up is how the ski patrollers should be required to wear helmets..it sets a good example..



make sure you find out their view of ski instructors cutting the line when not teaching a lesson.


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## mondeo (Mar 13, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Thank You...one of the points I'm going to bring up is how the ski patrollers should be required to wear helmets..it sets a good example..


Why do they need a helmet if they never get above 15 mph?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 13, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Why do they need a helmet if they never get above 15 mph?



What about another skier/rider crashing into you???


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## prisnah (Mar 17, 2009)

I wear one about half the time. Mid winter deep days when I know I'll be in the trees pretty much all day, it's on, super cold days, icy days, on. Spring days, such as this past week or so...always off, no matter where I plan on pointing em.

I do appreciate having it on when I'm bushwacking around in the trees.....makes those little branches waay less annoying.

But no way am I wearing one on a 35+ degree day. 

My girlfriend usually plays it about the same.

I really don't like wearing a helmet too much, I feel like it restricts my vision and ability to swivel my head if need be, just a little bit, but noticeable to me....but like I said it does have it's purposes and it's great not having to try and avoid those little branches. I always bring it with me, but make a game time decision while booting up in the lot.

I have multiple helmets as well. A Bern hardhat w/ music hookups , and a RED Hi-Fi.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Why do they need a helmet if they never get above 15 mph?



http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/18/obit.richardson/index.html

we differ in opinion and that's cool, but......for our loved ones, we all can never be too cautious.  I might have to rethink my stance of going without a helmet on warm bump skiing days.


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## gmcunni (Mar 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> .for our loved ones, we all can never be too cautious.  I might have to rethink my stance of going without a helmet on warm bump skiing days.



+1


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## mondeo (Mar 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/18/obit.richardson/index.html
> 
> we differ in opinion and that's cool, but......for our loved ones, we all can never be too cautious.  I might have to rethink my stance of going without a helmet on warm bump skiing days.


As sad as this event is, I try not to let individual events change my opinions on things. I'm probably more likely to die while wearing a helmet skiing trees or losing/catching an edge and hitting an immovable object than while not wearing a helmet at slow speeds or skiing spring bumps. Again, it comes back to risk vs. reward. Yes, the consequences impact friends and family, but at the extreme you end up never going outside.

The best any of us can do is try to account for all the risks, all consequences, and all the rewards, and make the best decision possible.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2009)

mondeo said:


> The best any of us can do is try to account for all the risks, all consequences, and all the rewards, and make the best decision possible.



True

I suppose I've just somehow arrived at a point where I view skiing with a helmet the same as wearing a seat belt while driving a car or more appropriately, wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle.  There's zero justification not too. Kind of strange considering I didn't own one until late February last season...blew it off for years.  But, I've got plenty of friends who ride motorcycles without helmets and it's their choice; I consider you a friend as do I anyone who I've made turns with and do respect your choice/opinion.  Disagree, but respect


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2009)

By the way, I also happen to talk on a cell phone while driving in downtown Boston traffic six hours a day....can't stand the blue tooth.

I'll probably be preaching against this behavior at some point in life as well.    There's no justification for it, I do it.

I also am a smoker :lol:

probably eat a bit too much red meat ......

drink too much sometimes .....

liked fast woman in college ..... probably still would if I wasn't happily attached


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## gmcunni (Mar 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I also am a smoker :lol:



i'm a former smoker.  i'm amazed today when i see people lighting up. if not the health reasons, the cost!


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i'm a former smoker.  i'm amazed today when i see people lighting up. if not the health reasons, the cost!



don't you worry, I'll be the biggest anti cigarette nazi the world has ever seen when I quit for good :lol:

I've got no justification for smoking.  But apparently I enjoy it much more than not wearing a helmet on a sunny day.

pretty stupid....


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## ski_resort_observer (Mar 18, 2009)

This was a terrible tragedy......a freak accident. Whether your skiing the Atlas Mts in Morroco or the green terrain at your favorite hill, wearing a lid is a personal choice. No one can say unequivically that a helmet would have prevented the injury.


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## Geoff (Mar 18, 2009)

danny p said:


> i wear a helmet until the sunglasses and sunblock come out...



+1


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 19, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> i'm a former smoker.  i'm amazed today when i see people lighting up. if not the health reasons, the cost!




I hand out my business card to smokers..


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## Trekchick (Mar 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I'll take it off when it's warm. Slush is cushy enough to take the place of the helmet.
> 
> If I just skied groomers I wouldn't wear one. I can't remember the last time I fell when carving.





deadheadskier said:


> I find this statement totally bizarre.


I found this to be bizarre also.  Most folks who sustain serious injury or death are advanced/expert skiers who get on a groomer to head back to the car at the end of the day, or do a cool down run.  Some small variable on a groomer can easily send you into the trees at a high rate of speed.

However, .........I'm making an observation, not a judgement. 



Glenn said:


> Preference.  Just how we (choo-choo) choose to ski.
> 
> I could list a number of reasons, but then there would be a urinating contest.


I choose to wear a helmet, but I have no propensity to pass judgement on those who don't.   In fact. some of those who I ski with who don't wear a helmet are among some of those who I hold in very high regard and consider some of the most intelligent folks I ski with.



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Thank You...one of the points I'm going to bring up is how the ski patrollers should be required to wear helmets..it sets a good example..


IMHO this is just wrong.  The patrol may lose some very good patrollers if its made mandatory.  
Skiing recklessly effects others.
Not wearing a helmet effects you and your family. 
Personal choice my friend.


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## Rambo (Mar 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Why do they need a helmet if they never get above 15 mph?


90% of ski helmets will protect up to 17 mph impacts. Over 17 mph you need an expensive race rated helmet.


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## bvibert (Mar 19, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I might have to rethink my stance of going without a helmet on warm bump skiing days.



I've had a few warm bump days in the last couple weeks.  I was tempted to take off my helmet when the sun was shining and the temps were in the 50's and even 60's, but I left it on and I was fine so long as I took it off on the chair rides to let my head cool down.  I'll take the added safety over the minor inconvenience of some head sweat.  I wear a Giro G10 and have the ear flaps removed for spring action.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 19, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I hand out my business card to smokers..


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## mondeo (Mar 19, 2009)

Rambo said:


> 90% of ski helmets will protect up to 17 mph impacts. Over 17 mph you need an expensive race rated helmet.


Protect against 17 mph impacts in what way? Dead stop head on into an immovable object? Grazing impacts? Falls?


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## Rambo (Mar 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Protect against 17 mph impacts in what way? Dead stop head on into an immovable object? Grazing impacts? Falls?



"Helmets have been shown to protect the heads of recreational skiers traveling at a rate of 12 to 17 miles an hour, but typically not at higher speeds. Professional skiers and snowboarders, who surpass those speeds, are required to wear more sophisticated helmets."

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/richardsons-accident-reignites-ski-helmet-debate/?hp


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## mondeo (Mar 19, 2009)

Rambo said:


> "Helmets have been shown to protect the heads of recreational skiers traveling at a rate of 12 to 17 miles an hour, but typically not at higher speeds. Professional skiers and snowboarders, who surpass those speeds, are required to wear more sophisticated helmets."
> 
> http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/richardsons-accident-reignites-ski-helmet-debate/?hp


Still doesn't answer the question. Protects the heads of recreational skiers from what? Trees? Falling on ice? Other skiers? Lift tower padding? And what does protection entail? No damage? 50% reduction in damage?

The basic function of a helmet is to increase the amount of time it takes for the head to slow down, which reduces the acceleration/force seen by the head. Any helmet will do this no matter what the speed. My point is that a blanket statement that helmets protect skiers up to 17mph is highly incomplete, and almost useless.


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## Rambo (Mar 19, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Still doesn't answer the question. Protects the heads of recreational skiers from what? Trees? Falling on ice? Other skiers? Lift tower padding? And what does protection entail? No damage? 50% reduction in damage?
> 
> The basic function of a helmet is to increase the amount of time it takes for the head to slow down, which reduces the acceleration/force seen by the head. Any helmet will do this no matter what the speed. My point is that a blanket statement that helmets protect skiers up to 17mph is highly incomplete, and almost useless.



Look. I ski 28 times a year and have never worn a helmet. But I am considering it now. I was just doing a little basic reading concerning helmets and am trying to be more informed. I take it you recommend skiers wear helmets?


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## ERJ-145CA (Mar 19, 2009)

I always wear a helmet now but I didn't until 2 seasons ago when I was getting my hair cut and talking about skiing with my barber and he asked me if I wear a helmet.  I told him no and he told me a story about how a helmet saved him one day, I went out and bought one soon after that.  Now I like it better than a hat.


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## gmcunni (Mar 19, 2009)

Having kids has made me rethink many of the habits i developed as a youth/young adult.  it was an interesting conversation i had with my daughter regarding bike helmets not too long ago.

her - Daddy, why do i have to wear a bike helmet?

me - to help protect you if fall honey.

her - Why don't you wear one, don't you want to be safe too?

i had all sorts of answers for this. bottom line i now wear a bike (and ski) helmet almost all the time. My choice to do something that *might* help prevent an injury or something worse.  It is for the benefit of my family more so than me. Same reason i go to the DR for (somewhat) regular check ups, people i love depend on me.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 19, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> Having kids has made me rethink many of the habits i developed as a youth/young adult.  it was an interesting conversation i had with my daughter regarding bike helmets not too long ago.
> 
> her - Daddy, why do i have to wear a bike helmet?
> 
> ...




You should also want to be healthy and safe for yourself!!!!!


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## andyzee (Mar 19, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I hand out my business card to smokers..



Good one :lol:


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## Rossi Smash (Mar 21, 2009)

A proper tuque is my headgear of choice till temps reach about 40 degrees, then nothing.
I don't care what you wear so don't preach to me either....


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## gmcunni (Mar 21, 2009)

it was warm today, i didn't wear a helmet.


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## Philpug (Mar 22, 2009)

mondeo said:


> I'll take it off when it's warm. Slush is cushy enough to take the place of the helmet.
> 
> If I just skied groomers I wouldn't wear one. I can't remember the last time I fell when carving.



As mentioned you are much more at risk on the open groomers than the woods.

I recall reading that MRG is one of the few areas that have zero skier deaths, I guess that it caters to a higher quality skier and you tend not to get the high rate of speed that you get on a well manecured blue/black groomer. 

I won't go into the details on why I wear a helmet, but I started about 4 years ago and have been happy with the choice. Since I got the helmet, I have skied 1 day without it. 

With the advancements in helmets, weight is no longer a reasonable excuse. visability is no longer a reasonable excuse, ventilation is no longer a reasonable excuse. There are probaly 20 reasons to wear a helmet nut less than 5 not to..So "other than personal choice", why wouldn't you wear one?


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## Geoff (Mar 22, 2009)

gmcunni said:


> it was warm today, i didn't wear a helmet.



+1

I put mine on in my condo at 8:20 and drove to the hill.  After I pulled chairs, folding table, and grill out of the SUV, I opted for sunscreen, sunglasses, and a wool hat.  In the spring, I only wear a helmet on goggle days.


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## Philpug (Mar 22, 2009)

Geoff said:


> +1
> 
> I put mine on in my condo at 8:20 and drove to the hill.  After I pulled chairs, folding table, and grill out of the SUV, I opted for sunscreen, sunglasses, and a wool hat.  In the spring, I only wear a helmet on goggle days.



Out of curiosity... Do you not where your seatbelt unless you are going on the highway?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 22, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Out of curiosity... Do you not where your seatbelt unless you are going on the highway?



snap:smash::smash:Geoff drive to the mountain in ski boots..


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## Geoff (Mar 22, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Out of curiosity... Do you not where your seatbelt unless you are going on the highway?



There's a seatbelt law.  I always wear my seatbelt.

The reason I wear a helmet is for tree skiing.  If I never skied the woods, I probably wouldn't wear a helmet.


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## Philpug (Mar 22, 2009)

Geoff said:


> There's a seatbelt law.  I always wear my seatbelt.
> 
> The reason I wear a helmet is for tree skiing.  If I never skied the woods, I probably wouldn't wear a helmet.



Well, good luck with that. :roll:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 22, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Well, good luck with that. :roll:



Good luck with being an asshole!!!


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## Geoff (Mar 22, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Good luck with being an asshole!!!



Yeah, I have a big problem with the smug "I wear a helmet" attitude.  My observation is that it gives people a very false sense of security.  An awful lot of people put on a helmet and ski outside their control envelope.  I guess when you're buzzing around the boring groomed flats at Okemo in your speed suit, everybody wears a helmet.  If you're on ungroomed spring mush bumps at a mountain with more pitch where you have to dial back the speed, there's not a heck of a lot of risk.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 22, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Good luck with being an asshole!!!


Geoff, I don't think this was directed at you.


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## Moe Ghoul (Mar 22, 2009)

Philpug: Days 09/10: 30 

I musta been in a coma for a year, I'm still talking about 08/09 like it was yesterday.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 22, 2009)

Moe Ghoul said:


> Philpug: Days 09/10: 30
> 
> I musta been in a coma for a year, I'm still talking about 08/09 like it was yesterday.


Awesome find MG.  Can't wait to ski with you this weekend at CB!


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## Moe Ghoul (Mar 22, 2009)

Same here, Root! Prolly my last day skiing for the season and a rare weekend appearance by me.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 22, 2009)

Moe Ghoul said:


> Same here, Root! Prolly my last day skiing for the season and a rare weekend appearance by me.


It's been a good season.  See you there.  Lines should be non-existent!


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## Philpug (Mar 22, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Yeah, I have a big problem with the smug "I wear a helmet" attitude.


 Along with the "I'm cooler than you, I don't wear one". 



Geoff said:


> My observation is that it gives people a very false sense of security.


 Like driving a SUV? 



Geoff said:


> An awful lot of people put on a helmet and ski outside their control envelope.


   One of the reasons I wear a helmet, if I get hit by one of these people, it is just more protection I have.  



Geoff said:


> I guess when you're buzzing around the boring groomed flats at Okemo in your speed suit, everybody wears a helmet.


 I happen to ski Okemo among other areas, but do not where a speed suit, so who are you talking about? 



Geoff said:


> If you're on ungroomed spring mush bumps at a mountain with more pitch where you have to dial back the speed, there's not a heck of a lot of risk.


 This is one area, I agree with you on. But Ms. Richardson was on a beginner green trail in the similar type spring conditions, the same argument could be said for that terrain. 

But if you have an issue with anyone, talk to GS, he started the thread questioning people who don't.


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## mondeo (Mar 22, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Along with the "I'm cooler than you, I don't wear one".


What about "it's more comfortable not wearing one" or "it's not worth $100"


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 22, 2009)

shut up Phil..go back to Epic


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## gmcunni (Mar 22, 2009)

it was warm today but i worm my helmet anyway.  good thing too, many falls today, one of which my helmet took the brunt of the force. i still got a headache though.


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## Philpug (Mar 23, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> shut up Phil..go back to Epic



And you are more than welcome to go back to PASR. :roll:


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 23, 2009)

Philpug said:


> And you are more than welcome to go back to PASR. :roll:



good comeback:smash:


----------



## Geoff (Mar 23, 2009)

*helmet use*



Philpug said:


> Along with the "I'm cooler than you, I don't wear one".
> 
> *So according to you,  I'm risking certain death by leaving the helmet in the car on sunny spring days?  I'm amazed you ever get out of bed in the morning without putting on your helmet.  It's a frightening world out there.  How do you wash your hair?  You could slip in the bath tub so a helmet is obviously essential there.  Far more deaths from slipping in the bathtub than the 40 or so deaths on the slopes every year.*
> 
> ...



Enough flames.  I suggest you avoid that rolling eyes icon.  It pisses me off.


----------



## Philpug (Mar 23, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Enough flames.  I suggest you avoid that rolling eyes icon.  It pisses me off.


There were NO flames, just points. There was not ONE :roll: in that post. 

Besides, I wouldn't want to piss YOU off.:roll: :wink::wink::wink:

As far as my upcoming week, it is not in a cubicle, I am headed out to Steamboat for a couple of days of cat skiing then up to Big Sky and Bridger for a week+ of skiing. 

Okemo, although it has very nice groomers, the trees are fun in SuperNova a few other trails and great seaded bumps on Blackout and Sel's to name a few. 

I skied for 30 years w/o a helmet, it is your choice not to wear one, my choice to wear one, I just feel there is more reasons to wear one than there is NOT to.


----------



## Geoff (Mar 23, 2009)

Philpug said:


> Well, good luck with that. :roll:



Right.


----------



## Philpug (Mar 23, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Right.



I thought you were referring to the previous post that you quoted. yeah, there was a :roll: in that one. I will take that one back, it was kinda redundant after the comment.


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## ripzillia (Mar 23, 2009)

Good morning GSS. I noticed _almost _everyone wears a helmet where I ski. Of course me being one of the NOT. Started skiing before the helmets were in use so an old dog and new tricks. It doesn't take much to put out the lights.


----------



## Geoff (Mar 23, 2009)

Greg said:


> 99% of the time I do. I didn't for the first time in a while last weekend skiing slush bumps when it was 55 degrees.



Good luck with that.  :roll:


----------



## marcski (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't get the problem here.  We live in America. There is no helmet law (as of yet) so live and let live. 

As with any risk protection...it all boils down to the value one puts on the asset being protected vs. the cost of the insurance.


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## Trekchick (Mar 23, 2009)

I wear a helmet when I ski, bike and ride motorcycle.

I don't bug folks around me who don't wear a helmet to get one, but I do make comments on how comfy my helmet is and how much I prefer it over wearing a hat, which is true.

I have three friends who wear helmets because of my casual comments, and all three will attest to the fact that they love their helmet(s) for comfort, never mind the protection factor.

That being said.........
my Brother in Law works in Radiology for a major hospital in our area.
One night he called my sister (his wife) on the phone after doing a cat scan on a kid that had been brought in to the hospital from the ski area.

Tim - "Brandi, do you wear a helmet when you ski?"
Brandi - "No."
Tim - Why?
Brandi- I don't like how it smooshes my hair
Tim - You won't be skiing any more unless you promise me you'll wear a helmet



* Tim never orders Brandi to do anything.  She knew something he saw in radiology really disturbed him.  She wears a helmet and doesn't worry about her hair.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 23, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> I wear a helmet when I ski, bike and ride motorcycle.
> 
> I don't bug folks around me who don't wear a helmet to get one, but I do make comments on how comfy my helmet is and how much I prefer it over wearing a hat, which is true.
> 
> ...


 Helmet hair rocks!


----------



## bvibert (Mar 23, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Helmet hair rocks!



I love when I'm done mountain biking and my hair is sticking up just slightly in the areas where the vents are, while the rest of my hair is thoroughly matted down.


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## Marc (Mar 23, 2009)

I try to ski as fast as possible without a helmet, and only really have fun doing so when I'm shiat faced drunk.

Or under the influence of some other mind altering, preferably halucinogenic substance.  Or a combination of both.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 23, 2009)

Marc said:


> I try to ski as fast as possible without a helmet, and only really have fun doing so when I'm shiat faced drunk.
> 
> Or under the influence of some other mind altering, preferably halucinogenic substance.  Or a combination of both.



times 2...FKNA!!!!  Skiing on a combination of acid and schrooms rocks..it makes Blue mountain seem like Jackson Hole!!!


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## Marc (Mar 23, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Still doesn't answer the question. Protects the heads of recreational skiers from what? Trees? Falling on ice? Other skiers? Lift tower padding? And what does protection entail? No damage? 50% reduction in damage?
> 
> The basic function of a helmet is to increase the amount of time it takes for the head to slow down, which reduces the acceleration/force seen by the head. Any helmet will do this no matter what the speed. My point is that a blanket statement that helmets protect skiers up to 17mph is highly incomplete, and almost useless.



That and to distribute the force from an impact over a greater area.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 23, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I love when I'm done mountain biking and my hair is sticking up just slightly in the areas where the vents are, while the rest of my hair is thoroughly matted down.


Post mountain biking hair, is on a totally different level of coolness then post skiing hair. :-D


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## campgottagopee (Mar 23, 2009)

No helmet here


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## Philpug (Mar 23, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I love when I'm done mountain biking and my hair is sticking up just slightly in the areas where the vents are, while the rest of my hair is thoroughly matted down.



And what about us guys with not enough hair to get helmet hair???? Sucks for us.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 23, 2009)

Helmet hair WTF  !!  I'm streamlined:no friggin drag at all


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## Trekchick (Mar 23, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Helmet hair rocks!





Philpug said:


> And what about us guys with not enough hair to get helmet hair???? Sucks for us.



Helmet sweat Rocks!!!


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## rocojerry (Mar 30, 2009)

pretty much always for me, my friend who's been skiing 20+ years says his helmet slows him down...  
At least he is accepting the additional wind-drag caused by snowpants/jackets....


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## RootDKJ (Mar 30, 2009)

rocojerry said:


> pretty much always for me, my friend who's been skiing 20+ years says his helmet slows him down...
> At least he is accepting the additional wind-drag caused by snowpants/jackets....


Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's gotta be the stupidest reason I've ever heard not to wear a helmet.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 30, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's gotta be the stupidest reason I've ever heard not to wear a helmet.



times 2..I ski plenty fast with a helmet..


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## RootDKJ (Mar 30, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> times 2..I ski plenty fast with a helmet..


...and didn't AtomicJeff get clocked with a radar gun @ 74mph with a helmet on?


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 30, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> ...and didn't AtomicJeff get clocked with a radar gun @ 74mph with a helmet on?



yeah without a helmet I bet he could have hit 75


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 30, 2009)

i was warm last weekend, i didn't wear a helmet.

<<<<<<<<


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## RootDKJ (Apr 8, 2009)

Even this guy is wearing a helmet :blink:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Apr 8, 2009)

bump..or a bump on your head is what you'll avoid if you wear a helmet..


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## Nick (Mar 28, 2011)

I've never worn a helmet and actually hadn't paid attention to how prevelent they have become. I felt like odd man out. I dunno why, I mountain bike all the time and wouldn't dare ride my bike without a helmet, but for some reason I feel like it's just more dangerous, I could hit a rock or something, whereas for the most part skiing is just snow. Although there are the icy patches and rocks and glades and other skiiers and lift poles and and and. 

I've always thought people who didn't wear helmets on a bicycle had a death wish, while it's totally cool to ski without one.


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> I've never worn a helmet and actually hadn't paid attention to how prevelent they have become. I felt like odd man out. I dunno why, I mountain bike all the time and wouldn't dare ride my bike without a helmet, but for some reason I feel like it's just more dangerous, I could hit a rock or something, whereas for the most part skiing is just snow. Although there are the icy patches and rocks and glades and other skiiers and lift poles and and and.
> 
> I've always thought people who didn't wear helmets on a bicycle had a death wish, while it's totally cool to ski without one.



my helmet took a lot of hits in the woods this past weekend.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> I've never worn a helmet and actually hadn't paid attention to how prevelent they have become. I felt like odd man out. I dunno why, I mountain bike all the time and wouldn't dare ride my bike without a helmet, but for some reason I feel like it's just more dangerous, I could hit a rock or something, whereas for the most part skiing is just snow. Although there are the icy patches and rocks and glades and other skiiers and lift poles and and and.
> 
> I've always thought people who didn't wear helmets on a bicycle had a death wish, while it's totally cool to ski without one.



Wayne probably would not have recovered from his concussion on Friday to ski the weekend without his helmet. As it was he still can't remember a whole run.


----------



## Nick (Mar 28, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Wayne probably would not have recovered from his concussion on Friday to ski the weekend without his helmet. As it was he still can't remember a whole run.



Seriously? I hadn't even heard of that, and I talked to him on Saturday. At least I'm pretty sure it was him. I'm still learning everyone's names!


----------



## Edd (Mar 28, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Wayne probably would not have recovered from his concussion on Friday to ski the weekend without his helmet. As it was he still can't remember a whole run.



Is this Wjenness?  Saw that mentioned somewhere.  What happened?


----------



## bvibert (Mar 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> I've always thought people who didn't wear helmets on a bicycle had a death wish, while it's totally cool to ski without one.



Seems kinda silly when you think about it that way, doesn't it?  Just get a helmet.  You won't even notice it's there, and your head will stay warmer.  Plus you'll have somewhere to stick an AZ sticker (the next time someone makes some more..).  It's a win-win.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

Edd said:


> Is this Wjenness?  Saw that mentioned somewhere.  What happened?



Had a bad landing on a drop at Saddleback and hit his head hard. I guess he was out for a sec and then really out of it. He can't remember the rest of the run after that. Helmet lining was cracked in half. I'm sure there are more details he or someone who was there could fill in.


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

I wear a helmet all the time, sometimes right through lunch. On another note more people get hurt in skiing/riding accidents who wear helmets statistically.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> I wear a helmet all the time, sometimes right through lunch. On another note more people get hurt in skiing/riding accidents who wear helmets statistically.



Statistically people like to say "statistically" to support their opinion without actually pointing to any facts. How about pointing out one of these studies? What's the sample group and how do you compare when the majority of people wear helmets these days? How about the severity of the injuries with and without a helmet?


----------



## RootDKJ (Mar 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> I've never worn a helmet and actually hadn't paid attention to how prevelent they have become. I felt like odd man out. I dunno why, I mountain bike all the time and wouldn't dare ride my bike without a helmet, but for some reason I feel like it's just more dangerous, I could hit a rock or something, whereas for the most part skiing is just snow. Although there are the icy patches and rocks and glades and other skiiers and lift poles and and and.
> 
> I've always thought people who didn't wear helmets on a bicycle had a death wish, while it's totally cool to ski without one.



The first time you hit your head hard, and you're not using a helmet you start to think to your self..."so _that's why_ so many people are wearing helmets now!"



gmcunni said:


> my helmet took a lot of hits in the woods this past weekend.


 excellent :beer:


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Statistically people like to say "statistically" to support their opinion without actually pointing to any facts. How about pointing out one of these studies? What's the sample group and how do you compare when the majority of people wear helmets these days? How about the severity of the injuries with and without a helmet?


 What opinion? I stated I wear a helmet. Ill have to go look it up. But yes they believe people are more likely to take risks wearing a helmet but there are too many factors.
 The head injury people advocate wearing a brain bucket.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> What opinion? I stated I wear a helmet. Ill have to go look it up. But yes they believe people are more likely to take risks wearing a helmet but there are too many factors.
> The head injury people advocate wearing a brain bucket.



I can believe the opinion that people wearing helmet take more risks in regards to inexperienced skiers.  

I started wearing a helmet about 4 seasons ago.  I didn't start skiing faster or taking more risks because of it.  I'd say most of the folks I know wearing them would say the same thing.


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 28, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I started wearing a helmet about 4 seasons ago.  I didn't start skiing faster or taking more risks because of it.  I'd say most of the folks I know wearing them would say the same thing.



me too, same rough time frame.  i ski a little better now than i did then. It is the  result of my skiing ability improvement that i find myself in situations where the helmet is beneficial.


----------



## RootDKJ (Mar 28, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> me too, same rough time frame.  i ski a little better now than i did then. It is the  result of my skiing ability improvement that i find myself in situations where the helmet is beneficial.


same here, plus I'm using way better equipment now, so it's a little easier to get my self into those situtations


----------



## Cannonball (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> I wear a helmet all the time, sometimes right through lunch. On another note more people get hurt in skiing/riding accidents who wear helmets statistically.



That's because the people not wearing helmets end up on the "dead" stats sheet instead of the "hurt" stats sheet.   

 I'm just making this up of course, but then so are you.  Let's see the reference for your statistics before we bother debating this one.


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> That's because the people not wearing helmets end up on the "dead" stats sheet instead of the "hurt" stats sheet.
> 
> I'm just making this up of course, but then so are you.  Let's see the reference for your statistics before we bother debating this one.



 Read it again.. wouldnt the statistics favor the majority? It was kind of meant as a joke. But in all seriousness the death rate has remained constant.
http://www.skihelmets.org/2010/12/study-finds-ski-helmets-reduce-injury-but-not-death/


----------



## Cannonball (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Read it again.. wouldnt the statistics favor the majority? It was kind of meant as a joke. But in all seriousness the death rate has remained constant.
> http://www.skihelmets.org/2010/12/study-finds-ski-helmets-reduce-injury-but-not-death/



Perfect.  So exactly the opposite of what you said before.  I guess that puts it to rest.  Thanks.


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> Perfect.  So exactly the opposite of what you said before.  I guess that puts it to rest.  Thanks.



 Read what I said "before" very carefully as it is also true.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> I wear a helmet all the time, sometimes right through lunch. On another note *more people get hurt in skiing/riding accidents who wear helmets* statistically.





> A study of ski helmet use in North America by the country’s National Ski Area’s Association (NSAA) has found that *growing helmet use over the past decade has reduced injuries*, but not deaths.





Morwax said:


> Read what I said "before" very carefully as it is also true.



Um, sounds like the exact opposite.:dunce:


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Um, sounds like the exact opposite.:dunce:



 But more people wear helmets now..so statistically more people who wear helmets get hurt right?


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

Its a sobering fact for example that more than half of the people involved in fatal accidents in 2008/09  at ski areas in the USA were wearing helmets at the time of the incident (Source - NSAA). As Shealy states "Even though the prevalence of helmet utilization is rising by 4 to 5 percent per year in the U.S., there has been no statistically significant observable effect on the incident of fatality."


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> But more people wear helmets now..so statistically more people who wear helmets get hurt right?



You are jumping to a conclusion. It doesn't specify how much they are down. All you can take from it is More Helmets = Fewer Injuries; More Helmets = Same amount of Deaths.


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Its a sobering fact for example that more than half of the people involved in fatal accidents in 2008/09  at ski areas in the USA were wearing helmets at the time of the incident (Source - NSAA). As Shealy states "Even though the prevalence of helmet utilization is rising by 4 to 5 percent per year in the U.S., there has been no statistically significant observable effect on the incident of fatality."



You are mixing up injuries and fatalities now. Your original statement was about injuries, not fatalities (Which you would be wrong about anyway since they have remained level) So to repeat injuries are down, deaths remain the same. So the injuries where you wack a branch or fall down and hit your head are down. If you are going mach whatever and hit a tree, nothing will help you.


----------



## Nick (Mar 28, 2011)

I dunno. I like to push it fairly hard when I go skiing, explore my limits. I can't think of a day I've ever gone skiing where I didn't yard sale it at least once. Binding issues aside, I came out of my ski's at least 7 or 8 times at Sugarloaf between Saturday and Sunday. Probably 1/2 of those times were unexpected, binding issues, (e.g. doing the mogels and the skis stayed put when I hit one particularly hard, but I kept going) 
 but the other 1/2 were probably good releases from just not hitting my landings right on jumps (primarily) or losing it downhill. Most were low-speed, but still.


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> I dunno. I like to push it fairly hard when I go skiing, explore my limits. I can't think of a day I've ever gone skiing where I didn't yard sale it at least once. Binding issues aside, I came out of my ski's at least 7 or 8 times at Sugarloaf between Saturday and Sunday. Probably 1/2 of those times were unexpected, binding issues, (e.g. doing the mogels and the skis stayed put when I hit one particularly hard, but I kept going)
> but the other 1/2 were probably good releases from just not hitting my landings right on jumps (primarily) or losing it downhill. Most were low-speed, but still.



do yourself a favor, get a helmet and get a white one so you can be like BVIBERT!


----------



## Morwax (Mar 28, 2011)

Nick said:


> I dunno. I like to push it fairly hard when I go skiing, explore my limits. I can't think of a day I've ever gone skiing where I didn't yard sale it at least once. Binding issues aside, I came out of my ski's at least 7 or 8 times at Sugarloaf between Saturday and Sunday. Probably 1/2 of those times were unexpected, binding issues, (e.g. doing the mogels and the skis stayed put when I hit one particularly hard, but I kept going)
> but the other 1/2 were probably good releases from just not hitting my landings right on jumps (primarily) or losing it downhill. Most were low-speed, but still.



 Crank those bindings down


----------



## Dr Skimeister (Mar 28, 2011)

The only rationale I need is that I never want to be in a situation where I would say, "Damn, I wish I had been wearing a helmet". The helmets I've had over the years have been lightweight and don't hinder hearing or vision. 

It's a "no brainer".


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 28, 2011)

Dr Skimeister said:


> The only rationale I need is that I never want to be in a situation where I would say, "Damn, I wish I had been wearing a helmet". The helmets I've had over the years have been lightweight and don't hinder hearing or vision.
> 
> It's a "no brainer".



well, i can't agree 100% with the hearing comment but it isn't as bad as i imaged it would be.


----------



## campgottagopee (Mar 28, 2011)

I've never worn a helmet for skiing.....simply because when I grew up nobody wore them, NOBODY...never

That said, it makes sense and I'll have one for next year for sure...can't afford anymore dain bramage than I already have


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 28, 2011)

campgottagopee said:


> I've never worn a helmet for skiing.....simply because when I grew up nobody wore them, NOBODY...never
> 
> That said, it makes sense and I'll have one for next year for sure...can't afford anymore dain bramage than I already have



What happened to Wayne is exactly the kind of thing you want a helmet for. I'm sure he would have spend the weekend in the hospital instead of ripping it up with us in the woods.

But it's a personal choice and I don't want to make any have to wear them except maybe kids.


----------



## vdk03 (Mar 28, 2011)

I dont wear a helmet, but the more i look around the more I see people wearing them. I was looking through the superquad line at sugarloaf (which was packed) and it seemed 95% of people were wearing one. The benefits of a helmet are clear, but i like being able to put up my hood when the winds are whipping and the snow is dumping.


----------



## bvibert (Mar 28, 2011)

vdk03 said:


> but i like being able to put up my hood when the winds are whipping and the snow is dumping.



Some jackets these days are made with hoods big enough to fit over helmets.


----------



## buellski (Mar 29, 2011)

I started wearing one when we had kids.  That was 11 years ago.  Now I think I'll always wear one.  In my opinion, they're warmer than hats, plus mine has headphones built into the ear flaps :flame:

They can definitely get a bit uncomfortable on warm days, but I can open up all the vents and remove the ear flaps which helps.  Of course, then I have to use ear-buds to listen to music


----------



## WJenness (Mar 29, 2011)

Just thought I'd chime in on this one since it's super relevant.

Friday at Saddleback, I panicked while approaching a 4' or so drop coming out of a little woods shot right by the bottom station of the Kennebago quad... I don't know how, but in trying to check my speed so as not to get launched into the air and land on flat hardpack, I ended up going down pretty hard and smacking the back of my head...

I cracked the lining of the helmet (I'll get a pic to put up here tonight), broke the adjustable part inside (my helmet has this floating piece that moves when you turn a dial for fine size adjustment... that part snapped off), and was out cold for what I'm told was three to four minutes before coming to. I had a conversation with a ski patroller and a couple other skiers that I do not remember AT ALL. I was apparently coherent enough that I was able to convince people to let me still ski.

We skied one more run through Casablanca which I don't remember at all (except for one moment of clarity when skiing down where I realized 'shit, I have no idea who I'm supposed to be staying with at Sugarloaf... Also, where is my car?'), I guess I was skiing SUPER slow and the folks I was with started worrying about me.

The next thing I clearly remember was WoodCore telling me 'you should really be done skiing for the day' (I wholeheartedly agreed with him) when we got out of the woods. I skied down to the lodge from there with a wicked headache and my back hurting. After sitting in the lodge for a while and drinking some water, I began to return to coherent thoughts...

My back continued to hurt throughout the day on Saturday (enough that I didn't go back out after lunch), and bothered me a little bit yesterday...

I'm VERY thankful that I was wearing my helmet, because I suspect the kind of fall I took was similar to the one that killed Natasha Richardson a couple of years ago. (I have no info to back this up, but I can see how much more serious my injury COULD have been without the helmet)... I'm not anxious to repeat the fall without a helmet on to see if I'm correct (obviously), but this incident further cemented my desire to always ski with a helmet.

I ordered a new helmet online last night.

-w


----------



## WJenness (Mar 29, 2011)

Bump (pun intentional):

I'm now SUPER thankful that I didn't fall on my head again over the weekend...

When I was walking out of the office for lunch, I lightly bumped (more of a graze than anything else) my head on the door and got an INSTANT (mild) headache and a bit of nausea...

I thought I was fine... Now, I'm not so sure.

I've got an appointment for a physical with my doc on Friday anyway, so we'll be talking head injuries... yay.

-w


----------



## hammer (Mar 29, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Bump (pun intentional):
> 
> I'm now SUPER thankful that I didn't fall on my head again over the weekend...
> 
> ...


I know you have an appointment to see the doctor, but next time you may want to consider a visit to the ER if you take a bad enough hit to knock you out cold with a helmet on.  Concussions are serious shti...

Just saying...

Good decision to wear a helmet and an equally good one to make sure you retire the old one.  It did its job.


----------



## billski (Mar 29, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Bump (pun intentional):
> 
> I'm now SUPER thankful that I didn't fall on my head again over the weekend...
> 
> ...



No MD here, but been through that before.  You at least have a mild concussion.  And don't get it whacked again for at least 3 months, so my neurologist said to me.  It will make it much worse.  The headache was your warning.  No fooling around.  Don't be surprised if your internist sends you for a neuro workup.


----------



## Nick (Mar 29, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Bump (pun intentional):
> 
> I'm now SUPER thankful that I didn't fall on my head again over the weekend...
> 
> ...



Wow, yeah take it easy. When I was a kid I wrecked my bike on a neighbors lawn and went unconcious for a few minutes. I went to the hospital and they did a CT scan, everything was fine but I remember being totally zoned out afterwards and dazed. I went to the door and asked the lady to call my parents who picked me up but I don't actually remember any of that either. 

I was wearing a helmet on the bike, thankfully as well .

I'm gonna have to start looking into them.


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 29, 2011)

Nick said:


> I'm gonna have to start looking into them.



remember, white is what the cool kids are wearing.


----------



## billski (Mar 29, 2011)

Black is in next year.  Wear this one the beginner's slope your're sure to scare the cr*p out of the young-uns


----------



## WJenness (Mar 29, 2011)

hammer said:


> I know you have an appointment to see the doctor, but next time you may want to consider a visit to the ER if you take a bad enough hit to knock you out cold with a helmet on.  Concussions are serious shti...
> 
> Just saying...
> 
> Good decision to wear a helmet and an equally good one to make sure you retire the old one.  It did its job.



Totally agreed...

I don't think I was really coherent enough to understand how seriously I probably had hurt myself at first... It took a lot of talking to people after the fact before I was even convinced that I had been out...

-w


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## o3jeff (Mar 29, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> remember, white is what the cool kids are wearing.



White helmet, orange pants is the latest craze


----------



## bvibert (Mar 29, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> remember, white is what the cool kids are wearing.



I'm going to get a pink helmet next time; for those who want to get a jump on the next style craze...


----------



## o3jeff (Mar 29, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Bump (pun intentional):
> 
> I'm now SUPER thankful that I didn't fall on my head again over the weekend...
> 
> ...



Hopefully it's nothing too serious.


----------



## Nick (Mar 29, 2011)

I was thinking of this:


----------



## wa-loaf (Mar 29, 2011)

Nick said:


> I was thinking of this:



That's gotta suck when it gets cold ...


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## WJenness (Mar 29, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> Hopefully it's nothing too serious.



I work in a pediatric practice, so I just had a chat with a bunch of the docs here...

The consensus was that I should take it easy (not play soccer tonight) and monitor... once symptom free for 24 hours, try some light exercise (elliptical, jogging, etc.) and see how that goes... if that's fine step it up again (lift some weights, running, etc.)...

I mentioned I was thinking of skiing on Sunday and I was told that if I can work out and be symptom free a couple times between now and then that it was cool to give it a shot, but to stop immediately if I felt dizzy, got a headache, nausea, etc...

So good news...

-w


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## WJenness (Mar 29, 2011)

The carnage:

The two lines are cracks through the plastic:






I don't know if it's what did the damage or not, but they seem to line up exactly with the heel piece of my binding... I'm not sure how I could have done that, but I guess it's a possibility.

Here you can see the crack in the foam, as well as the break on the adjustable piece:





This last one is just to show how deep it goes through the foam:







If anyone's looking for a helmet, REI has a good deal on Giro Omens ($129ish) through their website right now... They list normally for $200.

-w


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## planb420 (Mar 29, 2011)

Sans helmet here....I have an old RED Skycap for competitions that make it maditory for helmet use but otherwise it gathers MAD DUST all the time....


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## Terry (Mar 30, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Just thought I'd chime in on this one since it's super relevant.
> 
> Friday at Saddleback, I panicked while approaching a 4' or so drop coming out of a little woods shot right by the bottom station of the Kennebago quad... I don't know how, but in trying to check my speed so as not to get launched into the air and land on flat hardpack, I ended up going down pretty hard and smacking the back of my head...
> 
> ...


My wife and a friend are the ones who talked to you after the crash. She didn't actually see you fall but said you were laying face down and out cold when they got to you. A ski patroller happened to be right there and my wife went to get him. You woke up right as the ski patroller got there. You insisted that you were ok and refused treatment.


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## Nick (Mar 30, 2011)

Terry said:


> My wife and a friend are the ones who talked to you after the crash. She didn't actually see you fall but said you were laying face down and out cold when they got to you. A ski patroller happened to be right there and my wife went to get him. You woke up right as the ski patroller got there. You insisted that you were ok and refused treatment.



Wow. 

WJenness - That crack on the back really does look like the width of a ski, doesn't it. Did you say you held it up and they matched up? Had your skis come off?


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## Glenn (Mar 30, 2011)

It's a personal choice. I opt to wear a hat with earflaps instead. I think it should be up to the individual. 

To wear or not to wear is akin to a political debate. People get fired up, post a lot of reasons. But in the end, no one changes their mind.


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## Cannonball (Mar 30, 2011)

planb420 said:


> Sans helmet here....I have an old RED Skycap for competitions that make it maditory for helmet use but otherwise it gathers MAD DUST all the time....



Can I ask why?  I am always surprised to see how many park riders don't wear helmets.  That seems like the most important place to have one.  I've always wanted to hear a good reason for it, now is my chance.  So what is it?


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## Morwax (Mar 30, 2011)

I went without a helmet for a long long time. Figured id used up all my lucky breaks  and close calls. 
 Wear it for your family and loved ones as they will be the ones that will have to visit you in rehab push you around in your chair.


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## drjeff (Mar 30, 2011)

Just about any tall person will tell you that helmets are great for the inevitable few times a year when loading a fixed grip chair with a footrest and the safety bar comes flying down on the back of your head just after you load the chair! 

Plus, if I didn't wear one, I'd never hear the end of it from my 2 kid about why THEY have to wear one, but I don't


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## Morwax (Mar 30, 2011)

drjeff said:


> Just about any tall person will tell you that helmets are great for the inevitable few times a year when loading a fixed grip chair with a footrest and the safety bar comes flying down on the back of your head just after you load the chair!
> 
> Plus, if I didn't wear one, I'd never hear the end of it from my 2 kid about why THEY have to wear one, but I don't


 Im not that tall, under 6 ft and ive been womped by the safety bar too many times to count:-o


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 30, 2011)

Wayne; Looks like a close call bud . Good that you asked your docs but  it may be prudent  to get a seriously thorough medical evaluation rather than casual observation. concussions are serious business.

It may be wise to chill out till you get really examined -- better to live to ski next yr than just get a few cheap thrills that may be left this season -- just sayin. You 've got a lifetime of skiing on your radar screen partner so don't be rushin' it -- Be well bud !! 

I empathize with you on the small huck thing  having done a similar stunt 2 weeks ago and ending up with a serious back jamming job . I didn't biff but the impact was less than stellar and i'm just now feeling human again.

vibes


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## Terry (Mar 30, 2011)

Nick said:


> Wow.
> 
> WJenness - That crack on the back really does look like the width of a ski, doesn't it. Did you say you held it up and they matched up? Had your skis come off?


 My wife said that you did not lose your skis off. From the sounds of things you probably don't remember.


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## roark (Mar 30, 2011)

Geez Wayne. Take it easy. I didn't realize the seriousness of your fall Friday, probably should've skied down with you.

Yes - your skis stayed on.


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## planb420 (Mar 30, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> Can I ask why?  I am always surprised to see how many park riders don't wear helmets.  That seems like the most important place to have one.  I've always wanted to hear a good reason for it, now is my chance.  So what is it?



My reason...I HATE feeling like a life sized bobble head, and I have been riding so long w/o one that I just cant seem to get comfortable with one on. Maybe as I age my resistance to it will fade, but for now I just dont want to wear it...I'm sure its not what your looking to hear but that is my honest opinion personally.:roll:


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## Cannonball (Mar 30, 2011)

planb420 said:


> My reason...I HATE feeling like a life sized bobble head, and I have been riding so long w/o one that I just cant seem to get comfortable with one on. Maybe as I age my resistance to it will fade, but for now I just dont want to wear it...I'm sure its not what your looking to hear but that is my honest opinion personally.:roll:



I wasn't looking to hear anything in particular. Since I've never been able to think up a single reason not to wear one (and a million reason to wear one) I just wanted an honest personal explanation.  Which is what you gave.  Thanks.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 30, 2011)

I've never worn one a day in my life, but I recently decided to get one.  Wisdom finally coming with age I suppose.

    I'll wait for the sales at the end of the season, partly to save $$$ and partly because I dont know the first thing about them so I need to do some research.  The first thing I've noticed is that they seem unreasonably expensive given the fact that all they are is a glorified bike helmet.


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## WJenness (Mar 30, 2011)

Geez... wow...

Thanks for the more info...

Terry, I don't remember that conversation with you, your wife, or the ski patrol at all...

I feel fine today... but I still plan on taking it easy for a while.

As I said, I've got an appointment with my doc on Friday anyway, so I'll be bringing it up with him then...

Thanks again to everyone who looked after me on Friday.

-w


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## planb420 (Mar 30, 2011)

Cannonball said:


> I wasn't looking to hear anything in particular. Since I've never been able to think up a single reason not to wear one (and a million reason to wear one) I just wanted an honest personal explanation.  Which is what you gave.  Thanks.



I can respect that...:-D


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## drjeff (Mar 30, 2011)

BenedictGomez said:


> I've never worn one a day in my life, but I recently decided to get one.  Wisdom finally coming with age I suppose.
> 
> I'll wait for the sales at the end of the season, partly to save $$$ and partly because I dont know the first thing about them so I need to do some research.  The first thing I've noticed is that they seem unreasonably expensive given the fact that all they are is a glorified bike helmet.



When you consider what they're designed to protect,  the price isn't too bad  :lol:


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## ERJ-145CA (Mar 31, 2011)

BenedictGomez said:


> I've never worn one a day in my life, but I recently decided to get one.  Wisdom finally coming with age I suppose.
> 
> I'll wait for the sales at the end of the season, partly to save $$$ and partly because I dont know the first thing about them so I need to do some research.  The first thing I've noticed is that they seem unreasonably expensive given the fact that all they are is a glorified bike helmet.



Bring your goggles when you go to buy one, you not only need a good fit for your head but with the goggles on too.


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## Cannonball (Apr 1, 2011)

BenedictGomez said:


> The first thing I've noticed is that they seem unreasonably expensive given the fact that all they are is a glorified bike helmet.



Not sure what your budget it and what you consider unreasonably expensive.  But you can find helmets for less than $50.  And the upper end is $150ish.  Basically the SAME pricing as bike helmets.


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## billski (Apr 1, 2011)

WJenness said:


> I work in a pediatric practice, so I just had a chat with a bunch of the docs here...
> 
> The consensus was that I should take it easy (not play soccer tonight) and monitor... once symptom free for 24 hours, try some light exercise (elliptical, jogging, etc.) and see how that goes... if that's fine step it up again (lift some weights, running, etc.)...
> 
> ...



What did they say about seeing a Neurologist.  I'm surprised they didn't mention it.  I waited several months and regret having done so.  The symptoms can progress, even though you feel fine just now.

The only problem with my neurologist is that she told me to stop skiing.  You know the answer....


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## billski (Apr 1, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Im not that tall, under 6 ft and ive been womped by the safety bar too many times to count:-o



Every single time I get on the chair, I grab the bar and control it coming down. Not only have I been the victim of head whacks, but I've seen one too many knee whacks.  
I'd rather control my own destiny and look out for others.  I always shout, "ready?"

The odds are that some point you will land on your noggin.  My wife got slammed from behind during a lesson, came down on her face and had to go to the ER.  Quite bloody.  Concussion.

BTW, with my first helmet, I was worried that it would be cold.  Often they get too hot, especially ski and bump skiing.


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## Nick (Apr 1, 2011)

billski said:


> What did they say about seeing a Neurologist.  I'm surprised they didn't mention it.  I waited several months and regret having done so.  The symptoms can progress, even though you feel fine just now.
> 
> The only problem with my neurologist is that she told me to stop skiing.  You know the answer....



What happened in your ski accident, Bill? (if it was even a ski accident)


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## billski (Apr 1, 2011)

Nick said:


> What happened in your ski accident, Bill? (if it was even a ski accident)



My wife had the ski accident.  I've hit my head skiing with my helmet on a few times.

My real accident was a 10 foot hiking fall in a boulder field, that was way more serious than most skiing falls.  Serious concussion, brain bleed cracked skull, ICU, 8-hour deep woods evac, 4x4 ambulance, almost died a few times, made that national news.   Still suffering some after-effects two years later.  Warned that my next concussion will be my last.  I've really toned down the skiing, but I still eat bark.


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## Nick (Apr 1, 2011)

billski said:


> My wife had the ski accident.  I've hit my head skiing with my helmet on a few times.
> 
> My real accident was a 10 foot hiking fall in a boulder field, that was way more serious than most skiing falls.  Serious concussion, brain bleed cracked skull, ICU, 8-hour deep woods evac, 4x4 ambulance, almost died a few times, made that national news.   Still suffering some after-effects two years later.  Warned that my next concussion will be my last.  I've really toned down the skiing, but I still eat bark.



Wow, that's scary... glad you are OK. I've taken so many risks in my life particularly in my late teens / early 20's without ever considering the consequences. 

Glad to see you are still on the slopes!


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## dmc (Apr 1, 2011)

If it's hot - I don't wear one..


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## WJenness (Apr 1, 2011)

billski said:


> What did they say about seeing a Neurologist.  I'm surprised they didn't mention it.  I waited several months and regret having done so.  The symptoms can progress, even though you feel fine just now.
> 
> The only problem with my neurologist is that she told me to stop skiing.  You know the answer....



Neuro was not mentioned at all...

Seeing my PCP in a few hours, we'll see what he has to say.

Yours was (obviously) MUCH more serious than mine... 

-w


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## John (Nov 4, 2013)

I haven't worn a helmet in years (since before I met my soon to be ex wife, 20 years ago). Since I predominately ski with my kids and they are beginner intermediate,groomers only.  I'm not sure I need one right now but I picked up some line twin tips last season, so I may start playing around a bit more. 46 is a little old for the terrain parks but it may be fun to try.


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## gmcunni (Nov 4, 2013)

John said:


> I haven't worn a helmet in years (since before I met my soon to be ex wife, 20 years ago). Since I predominately ski with my kids and they are beginner intermediate,groomers only.  I'm not sure I need one right now but I picked up some line twin tips last season, so I may start playing around a bit more. 46 is a little old for the terrain parks but it may be fun to try.



funny, 1 of the reasons i started wearing a helmet was because i was skiing with my kids and they kept giving me hard time because i made them wear one.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 4, 2013)

John said:


> I haven't worn a helmet in years (since before I met my soon to be ex wife, 20 years ago). Since I predominately ski with my kids and they are beginner intermediate,groomers only.  I'm not sure I need one right now but I picked up some line twin tips last season, so I may start playing around a bit more. 46 is a little old for the terrain parks but it may be fun to try.



I've pretty much settled into the belief that the logic for or against wearing a helmet is a two way street.  What I mean by that is that wearing a helmet shouldn't give one a false sense of security that you'll be protected skiing certain ways or types of terrain.  On the flip side, the type of skiing or terrain you are skiing shouldn't give one a false sense of security that you don't need to wear a helmet.  Liam Neeson's wife, Natasha Richardson, died from a head injury sustained from a fall during a beginner ski lesson at Mount Tremblant.  She wasn't wearing a helmet.

If for no other reason, I think it would be wise of you to wear a helmet while skiing with your kids as it sets a good example, but that's obviously your choice.


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## John (Nov 4, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I've pretty much settled into the belief that the logic for or against wearing a helmet is a two way street.  What I mean by that is that wearing a helmet shouldn't give one a false sense of security that you'll be protected skiing certain ways or types of terrain.  On the flip side, the type of skiing or terrain you are skiing shouldn't give one a false sense of security that you don't need to wear a helmet.  Liam Neeson's wife, Natasha Richardson, died from a head injury sustained from a fall during a beginner ski lesson at Mount Tremblant.  She wasn't wearing a helmet.
> 
> If for no other reason, I think it would be wise of you to wear a helmet while skiing with your kids as it sets a good example, but that's obviously your choice.





> funny, 1 of the reasons i started wearing a helmet was because i was skiing with my kids and they kept giving me hard time because i made them wear one.



Those are actually very good points. Be a good example to my kids... wish I was thinking a bit more.


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## Rikka (Nov 4, 2013)

I have skied 45 years without one I will be wearing this year.


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## JDMRoma (Nov 4, 2013)

I started wearing one when I got back into skiing, Im not a hat wearer…can't stand them so the helmet keeps me warm and semi protected. Ive had a couple of crashes that without the Lid, I would have had some serious issues for sure.
I won't ski without one now….


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## bigbog (Nov 4, 2013)

Wayne...hope you got a checkup..y/n?  You're in a great area to do so.  It's a great feeling to be issue-free...and catching anything before it turns into something more complicated makes most issues treateable.


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## dlague (Nov 4, 2013)

Skied my whole life without one until my kids started skiing and made them wear one!  One asked why we do not - we bought helmets shortly after that.  About three later I was in the back seat off a jump and smacked my head on the ground and was glad that I had the helmet.  Never looked back after that!  Do not use it as a security blanket. - my son got a concussion with one on but it would have been worse with out!


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## Quietman (Nov 4, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Not sure what your budget it and what you consider unreasonably expensive.  But you can find helmets for less than $50.  And the upper end is $150ish.  Basically the SAME pricing as bike helmets.



A few years back my father fell and not only broke his helmet amost in half, but snapped his collar bone and cracked multiple ribs with a punctured lung.  We could only guess what his head would have been like without the helmet.  I knew it was time to get one but being a cheapskate, I finally found a used 2XL(I have a big head) Giro S4 for $19 on Ebay.  It has been one of my best purchases ever.  Fits well, very light, has removeable ear flaps, and is nice and warm in cold weather.  

The only time that I've skied without it in the last 7 years was during the meltdown last March.  A black helmet in the 80 degree sun was just too much.

My brother has refused to get one, and I give him crap about it, but it's his choice.


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## gmcunni (Nov 4, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> On the flip side, the type of skiing or terrain you are skiing shouldn't give one a false sense of security that you don't need to wear a helmet.  Liam Neeson's wife, Natasha Richardson, died from a head injury sustained from a fall during a beginner ski lesson at Mount Tremblant.  She wasn't wearing a helmet.



as some may know, my daughter was in a serious accident season, crashing and going off a trail at Sugarbush.  it was an easy blue trail that transitioned to green (slow poke to sugarbear road).  had she not been wearing a helmet she would not be alive today.  tho to see her helmet and the minimal visual damage you'd have never guessed how bad it was.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 4, 2013)

The human skull/brain is really only capable of tolerating impacts of around 15mph; essentially the top speed humans can run at.  It doesn't take much of an impact to cause a life threatening brain bleed.  

I just did a two week rotation in CT Scan at the hospital.  There were numerous cases of patients with brain bleeds from simple falls around the house.  It really solidified in my mind how easy it is for someone to do severe damage to their head falling while skiing even at a moderate speed.


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## snoseek (Nov 4, 2013)

I took a bad bicycle crash in the spring on my bike. My helmet literally shattered. Without the helmet I wouldn't be typing this for sure, Even with the helmet I suffered neck/head injury. This is the second time a helmet has saved my ass


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## drjeff (Nov 5, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> The human skull/brain is really only capable of tolerating impacts of around 15mph; essentially the top speed humans can run at.  It doesn't take much of an impact to cause a life threatening brain bleed.
> 
> I just did a two week rotation in CT Scan at the hospital.  There were numerous cases of patients with brain bleeds from simple falls around the house.  It really solidified in my mind how easy it is for someone to do severe damage to their head falling while skiing even at a moderate speed.



If more people actually understood the facts about how "easy" a traumatic brain injury can occur, and then had to spend sometime in a traumatic brain injury rehabilitation clinic and saw that a significant amount of the people receiving therapy there AREN'T a result of say a car crash or a stroke, etc, but from events that many would classify as "routine" events (slip and falls, etc) then I'd bet that helmet usage would be much higher in not just snow sliding sports, but most sports across the board!

The skull and the thin layer of fluid that surround and protect the brain are great, but they just can't predictably withstand and protect the brain from impact injuries generated by many "routine" forces we potentially subject it too with extra protective help! 

The brain is a terrible thing to scramble!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## dlague (Nov 5, 2013)

dlague said:


> Skied my whole life without one until my kids started skiing and made them wear one!  One asked why we do not - we bought helmets shortly after that.  About three weeks later I was in the back seat off a jump and smacked my head on the ground and was glad that I had the helmet.  Never looked back after that!  Do not use it as a security blanket. - my son got a concussion with one on but it would have been worse with out!





gmcunni said:


> funny, 1 of the reasons i started wearing a helmet was because i was skiing with my kids and they kept giving me hard time because i made them wear one.



Someone who also was influenced by their children!  I often think it is funny how adults tell their children to behave yet they go about things contrary to their rule! No wonder teenagers are confused!

Stat: Wearing a helmet on the slopes may cut your risk of head injury by 22% to 60%. non-helmet users were greater than two times more likely to have died of head injuries among accidents in which helmet use was known. Just more than one-third of the deaths involved those wearing a helmet, with about half of them also suffering fatal head injuries. 

Where do most fatal accidents happen?

Well-groomed blue cruiser trails where the average speed of skiers is 25 to 40 mph...

due to out of control skiers or snowboarders that either collide with another slider or lose control and go off trail!


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 5, 2013)

If your not sure if you need one, watch the Crash Reel documentary about the snowboarder from VT who suffered a traumatic brain injury. Injuring your brain is not like breaking a leg. There is severe and lasting consequences to injuring your melon.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 5, 2013)

I don't usually wear a helmet. I think they look douchey and I love skiing warm spring bumps with just sunglasses or goggles on my head. If I found a helmet that looked okay and didn't make me look like every smarmy gaper on the hill I'd wear one, but that helmet hasn't been made yet.

I also don't wear a helmet when I ride my bike on bike paths. I do when I'm mountain biking or road biking.

Cue a bunch of people saying that I look like the stupid one for not wearing a helmet.


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## Cannonball (Nov 5, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> I don't usually wear a helmet. I think they look douchey and I love skiing warm spring bumps with just sunglasses or goggles on my head. If I found a helmet that looked okay and didn't make me look like every smarmy gaper on the hill I'd wear one, but that helmet hasn't been made yet.
> 
> I also don't wear a helmet when I ride my bike on bike paths. I do when I'm mountain biking or road biking.
> 
> Cue a bunch of people saying that I look like the stupid one for not wearing a helmet.



Let me be the first....

Fashion is subjective, so if you don't like the look, that's cool and all.  On the other hand, fashion is also mostly based on external perception.  So if fashion is you primary reason not for wearing one (which you say it is) I have to let you know that not wearing a helmet is the first criteria for gaperdom in 2013.  

Not wearing a helmet makes you look as stupid as smoking a cigarette. Cue a bunch of people saying that cigarettes are cool.


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## Quietman (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm curious, and not being judgemental even if it looks like it.  Do non-helmet users, buckle up when driving?  To be honest, I don't buckle 100% of the time, more like 90%.


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 5, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> I don't usually wear a helmet. I think they look douchey and I love skiing warm spring bumps with just sunglasses or goggles on my head. If I found a helmet that looked okay and didn't make me look like every smarmy gaper on the hill I'd wear one, but that helmet hasn't been made yet.
> 
> I also don't wear a helmet when I ride my bike on bike paths. I do when I'm mountain biking or road biking.
> 
> Cue a bunch of people saying that I look like the stupid one for not wearing a helmet.




It's a small price my friend. I hate to sound like a parent but there isn't a professional free rider, racer, or x games athlete that doesn't where one. When I see someone with a helmet I don't see them as a gaper...just smart. Now if that same person is wearing a fart bag or has their jeans tucked into their boots....well that's different.


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## St. Bear (Nov 5, 2013)

I don't wear a helmet.

I've been meaning to get one for a few years now, but I haven't found one that I liked, fit well, and was on sale.  It's basically buy a helmet or go skiing 2 extra days.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 5, 2013)

Quietman said:


> I'm curious, and not being judgemental even if it looks like it.  Do non-helmet users, buckle up when driving?  To be honest, I don't buckle 100% of the time, more like 90%.



If I've had a few too many beers, I sometimes forget to buckle up.  Other than that, I always wear my seat belt.


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 5, 2013)

Haha. I always wear my seat belt. But the better analogy is why don't any of you wear a helmet when you're driving? There isn't a NASCAR driver alive who doesn't wear one on the track. That's about the same as comparing what I do to a Freerider, XGames athlete, racer, etc.

I don't mind you guys getting sanctimonious and dickish about this, but I guess I'm not interested in getting into this argument again. I just saw the thread and answered the question. It'd be better if you just let people make their own decisions when it comes to how they treat themselves. Do you accost everyone you see smoking a cigarette in a parking lot for their decisions? No? Then don't bother me.

(And, for the record, I own 3 helmets and wear one of them when I'm doing stupid stuff in the park)


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## deadheadskier (Nov 5, 2013)

You must look like a real douche in the park.  :lol:


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 5, 2013)

Haha, I kinda do. :-D


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## Cannonball (Nov 5, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> Haha. I always wear my seat belt. But the better analogy is why don't any of you wear a helmet when you're driving? There isn't a NASCAR driver alive who doesn't wear one on the track. That's about the same as comparing what I do to a Freerider, XGames athlete, racer, etc.
> 
> I don't mind you guys getting sanctimonious and dickish about this, but I guess I'm not interested in getting into this argument again. I just saw the thread and answered the question. It'd be better if you just let people make their own decisions when it comes to how they treat themselves. Do you accost everyone you see smoking a cigarette in a parking lot for their decisions? No? Then don't bother me.



Not all of them.  Only the ones that call me a douchey, smarmy gaper for protecting my vital organs. 

But I 100% agree that personal responsibility is where it's at.  Totally cool with me if you don't wear a helmet. And I'm sincere when I say I hope it never ends up mattering, and most likely it won't.  My helmets have bailed me out a few times so I like wearing them.  And not a bad point about the analogy of wearing one while driving. I've done that a couple of times on the very short ride from my house to the slopes.  Every time I've thought, "man this would add a TON of protection in a crash".  But still I don't typically wear one for driving, so I guess I'm kinda a hypocritical.


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## hammer (Nov 6, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> If I've had a few too many beers, I sometimes forget to buckle up.  Other than that, I always wear my seat belt.


Of course, if you've had a few too many beers, the designated driver could remind you...:wink:


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 6, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> Haha. I always wear my seat belt. But the better analogy is why don't any of you wear a helmet when you're driving? There isn't a NASCAR driver alive who doesn't wear one on the track. That's about the same as comparing what I do to a Freerider, XGames athlete, racer, etc.
> 
> I don't mind you guys getting sanctimonious and dickish about this, but I guess I'm not interested in getting into this argument again. I just saw the thread and answered the question. It'd be better if you just let people make their own decisions when it comes to how they treat themselves. Do you accost everyone you see smoking a cigarette in a parking lot for their decisions? No? Then don't bother me.
> 
> (And, for the record, I own 3 helmets and wear one of them when I'm doing stupid stuff in the park)



Where a helmet or not it's your right. I just found it funny that your main reason for not wearing one is because it's not fashionable. For not trying to look like a gaper, you sure sound like one.

And the car analogy is terribly flawed. Most cars these days have a frame and airbags to protect you in an emergency. A better analogy would be riding a motorcycle. I don't want to throw numbers out there but I'm pretty confident at least 90% of riders wear helmets these days. And a lot wear more than that.

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## gmcunni (Nov 6, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Where a helmet or not it's your right.



for now . . .


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## HD333 (Nov 6, 2013)

I couldn't imagine not wearing a helmet at this point.  It would be like not wearing gloves for me.


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 6, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Where a helmet or not it's your right. I just found it funny that your main reason for not wearing one is because it's not fashionable. For not trying to look like a gaper, you sure sound like one.
> 
> And the car analogy is terribly flawed. Most cars these days have a frame and airbags to protect you in an emergency. A better analogy would be riding a motorcycle. I don't want to throw numbers out there but I'm pretty confident at least 90% of riders wear helmets these days. And a lot wear more than that.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app



I sound like a gaper, but you don't know how to spell "wear"? Okay...

And regardless of whether cars have airbags, there's no doubt that you'd be safer if you wore a helmet. Just like you'd be safer if you wore a bulletproof vest everywhere you went. Or wore a big rubber bubble around yourself when you ski so you just bounce off of things. You've made a decision that the increase in safety you get isn't worth looking weird. I make the same decision.


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## dlague (Nov 6, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> I sound like a gaper, but you don't know how to spell "wear"? Okay...
> 
> And regardless of whether cars have airbags, there's no doubt that you'd be safer if you wore a helmet. Just like you'd be safer if you wore a bulletproof vest everywhere you went. Or wore a big rubber bubble around yourself when you ski so you just bounce off of things. You've made a decision that the increase in safety you get isn't worth looking weird. I make the same decision.



Funny I think wearing a helmet is very common place.  I do look at those who do not wear one the same way I look at some one who is wearing jeans to ski!  Is it because they can't afford it?  Is it because if somethig happens to them - well they got that way doing some thing fun?  

I liken no helmets to a seventies look!  

In any case it is your choice - your head - your brain!  

On a seperate note -  

The next generation will be used to it since some states and others are following are requiring helment for minors age 17 and under.  For them as adults it will be common place!  In the near future and in the eyes of our kids as they get older -  no helmet = gaper!


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## dmc (Nov 6, 2013)

There's lot's of pro big mountain skiers that don't wear them..


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 6, 2013)

dmc said:


> There's lot's of pro big mountain skiers that don't wear them..



Yes and they are dead.

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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 6, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> And the car analogy is terribly flawed. Most cars these days have a frame and airbags to protect you in an emergency. A better analogy would be riding a motorcycle. I don't want to throw numbers out there but I'm pretty confident at least 90% of riders wear helmets these days. And a lot wear more than that.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app



I cant see where you live, so dont know the laws for bikes. I live in NY were helmets are the law so they are always worn. As soon as I cross over into CT (helmets not required) I would say 80% of all the bikes I see are not wearing helmets.
Helmets should never be required for anybody on any form of motion, but I will always choose to wear mine, and respect the choices of others to jot wear them.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 6, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I cant see where you live, so dont know the laws for bikes. I live in NY were helmets are the law so they are always worn. As soon as I cross over into CT (helmets not required) I would say 80% of all the bikes I see are not wearing helmets.
> Helmets should never be required for anybody on any form of motion, but I will always choose to wear mine, and respect the choices of others to jot wear them.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



I'll take your word that just seems incredibly low but I agree no one should be forced to wear a helmet. If someone wants to risk their own life that is their business.

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## deadheadskier (Nov 6, 2013)

Disagree on helmets for motorcycles not being a requirement by law.  Sorry but even though an individual is riding you are part of a group pool regarding vehicle and health insurance rates.  If a rider's risky behavior of not wearing a helmet raises the rates of all, then I think its more than fair that a law mandates the use of a helmet. UNLESS the rider is willing to forfeit their personal coverage of vehicle and health insurance should they choose to not wear a helmet.


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## hammer (Nov 7, 2013)

HD333 said:


> I couldn't imagine not wearing a helmet at this point.  It would be like not wearing gloves for me.


That's how I am...always wore one from the time I started skiing on a regular basis.

When it comes to safety equipment of any kind, I never have a problem with people who decide not to use it.  My only beef is when those same people do have an accident and then try to make others pay for the risk they took.

You don't wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle and then get into an accident with my car?  I don't care if I'm at fault, if the helmet could have saved you serious head injuries and you decided not to wear it then I should not be liable for your medical bills.


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 7, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Disagree on helmets for motorcycles not being a requirement by law.  Sorry but even though an individual is riding you are part of a group pool regarding vehicle and health insurance rates.  If a rider's risky behavior of not wearing a helmet raises the rates of all, then I think its more than fair that a law mandates the use of a helmet. UNLESS the rider is willing to forfeit their personal coverage of vehicle and health insurance should they choose to not wear a helmet.



I like that idea a lot.

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## mattchuck2 (Nov 7, 2013)

Kind of weird to bring up group health insurance rates. Rates for health insurance would be lower if people didn't ski. Does that mean we should ban skiing? Or force people to forego health insurance if they partake in a "dangerous" activity like skiing or driving a car? One of the most basic freedoms is the freedom to be an idiot if you're not affecting other people. Yes, group health insurance rates are slightly higher if a few people don't wear helmets on motorcycles, but they're a lot higher because half the country is obese. Should we go around slapping burgers out of people's hands?


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## Cannonball (Nov 7, 2013)

hammer said:


> You don't wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle and then get into an accident with my car?  I don't care if I'm at fault, if the helmet could have saved you serious head injuries and you decided not to wear it then I should not be liable for your medical bills.



Could actually be a lot more serious than that.  Let's say you get into an accident with a motorcylist who isn't wearing a helmet and he dies.  Now you are looking at vehicular homicide, or manslaughter, or something a lot more serious than just covering his medical bills.  Even if a helmet would have saved his life.


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## hammer (Nov 7, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Could actually be a lot more serious than that.  Let's say you get into an accident with a motorcylist who isn't wearing a helmet and he dies.  Now you are looking at vehicular homicide, or manslaughter, or something a lot more serious than just covering his medical bills.  Even if a helmet would have saved his life.


Yup, tough call on that one...ties into how badly one was "at fault" in the accident.


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 7, 2013)

Maybe you should watch out for motorcycles and give them a little extra room? You have the bigger vehicle, it's common sense. If you're charged with vehicular homicide it's because you were reckless or negligent and maybe you deserve what you get.


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## Riverskier (Nov 7, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Disagree on helmets for motorcycles not being a requirement by law. Sorry but even though an individual is riding you are part of a group pool regarding vehicle and health insurance rates. If a rider's risky behavior of not wearing a helmet raises the rates of all, then I think its more than fair that a law mandates the use of a helmet. UNLESS the rider is willing to forfeit their personal coverage of vehicle and health insurance should they choose to not wear a helmet.



Don't you smoke? What about obese people? There are plenty of personal choices that affect insurance rates for all. I understand where you are coming from, but I think it is a slippery slope....


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## hammer (Nov 7, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> Maybe you should watch out for motorcycles and give them a little extra room? You have the bigger vehicle, it's common sense. If you're charged with vehicular homicide it's because you were reckless or negligent and maybe you deserve what you get.


Agree but what if a simple mistake (not being overly reckless or negligent) results in major injury for a rider, and that injury could have been lessened by the rider wearing a helmet?  Are you saying that the rider doesn't share at least some responsibility because they couldn't be bothered to get and use safety gear?


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm saying you could make the same argument about a spine protector. Should we require motorcyclists to wear those?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 7, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> Don't you smoke? What about obese people? There are plenty of personal choices that affect insurance rates for all. I understand where you are coming from, but I think it is a slippery slope....



We've got seat belt laws don't we?  And regarding smoking; most smokers pay higher insurance rates than nonsmokers, so the point is somewhat moot.

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## mattchuck2 (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm slightly sympathetic to the argument that if you're not wearing a seatbelt, you could become a flying projectile in a collision and therefore affect more people as a result of your stupid decision.

Otherwise, I'd say that we don't really need seatbelt laws, either.


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## Riverskier (Nov 7, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> We've got seat belt laws don't we? And regarding smoking; most smokers pay higher insurance rates than nonsmokers, so the point is somewhat moot.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app



That is true for individual policies, but not most group health plans. But what about obese people, alcoholics, people who participate in unnecessary dangerous activities like base jumping, etc.? Surely legislating these other harmful lifestyle choices would have tremendous benefits for the health insurance pool, no? My point is that there are a limitless number of personal choices that have negative impacts on group insurance rates, society, and our tax base as a whole. Seatbelt and helmet laws may be easy to palate, as it would just seem like common sense to most people, but I still think it is a slippery slope...


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> That is true for individual policies, but not most group health plans. But what about obese people, alcoholics, people who participate in unnecessary dangerous activities like base jumping, etc.? Surely legislating these other harmful lifestyle choices would have tremendous benefits for the health insurance pool, no? My point is that there are a limitless number of personal choices that have negative impacts on group insurance rates, society, and our tax base as a whole. Seatbelt and helmet laws may be easy to palate, as it would just seem like common sense to most people, but I still think it is a slippery slope...



What about pre-exisitng conditions, no max limit, contraception pills.  Oh, wait! We have that all ready!!!!


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 7, 2013)

In the future we'll all be charged an insurance surcharge for every dangerous activity we undertake. Some actuary will figure out how many people partake in whatever risky activity, and figure out a dollar value for each thing. Smoking: $40 a month. Skiing: $5 a month. Mountain biking: $5 a month. Being fat: $15 a month. We'll just lie to insurance companies and tell them we don't do those things, but then they'll use the surveillance state to spy on our habits and charge us with insurance fraud. 

Can't wait!


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## Nick (Nov 7, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> I don't usually wear a helmet. I think they look douchey and I love skiing warm spring bumps with just sunglasses or goggles on my head. If I found a helmet that looked okay and didn't make me look like every smarmy gaper on the hill I'd wear one, but that helmet hasn't been made yet.
> 
> I also don't wear a helmet when I ride my bike on bike paths. I do when I'm mountain biking or road biking.
> 
> Cue a bunch of people saying that I look like the stupid one for not wearing a helmet.




I don't have a problem with you not wearing one but I do think it's interesting you think others look douchey wearing them  

Unless you are saying they just look douchey on you :lol:


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## Nick (Nov 7, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> I'm slightly sympathetic to the argument that if you're not wearing a seatbelt, you could become a flying projectile in a collision and therefore affect more people as a result of your stupid decision.
> 
> Otherwise, I'd say that we don't really need seatbelt laws, either.



I agree also. Everyone should feel free to be as dumb as they want to be as long as it doesn't affect others. 

Technically insurance would be more fair if the people that engaged in riskier behavior paid for that added risk though. But there really isn't any way to fully quantify someones behavior in an algorithm so you need to generalize and in some ways subsidize the bad behavior with the good. 

Even if you "mountain bike", how do you know a) how often you mountain bike b) how aggressively / recklessly you mountain bike / etc. etc.


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## mattchuck2 (Nov 7, 2013)

Nick said:


> I don't have a problem with you not wearing one but I do think it's interesting you think others look douchey wearing them
> 
> Unless you are saying they just look douchey on you :lol:



Yes, I'm saying they look douchey on me. And a lot of other people. But others look good in them.


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## hammer (Nov 7, 2013)

Insuring one's own activity and risk levels is one thing, going after me and my insurance liability coverage because one takes unnecessary risks on the road is another...

Regarding how helmets look, one advantage of being a certain age is that you shop caring about that as much.


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## Puck it (Nov 7, 2013)

mattchuck2 said:


> Yes, I'm saying they look douchey on me. And a lot of other people. But others look good in them.



Your old school bus, right.


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## gmcunni (Mar 27, 2014)

couldn't link just the video so  . . .
http://unofficialnetworks.com/helmet-saves-boys-life-alyeska-snowboard-crash-129682/


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## jaysunn (Mar 30, 2014)

Maybe you should watch out for motorcycles and give them a little extra room? You have the bigger vehicle, it's common sense. If you're charged with vehicular homicide it's because you were reckless or negligent and maybe you deserve what you get.


Quote above. 

Most of the time it's the motorcyclist who's negligent. A couple beers on Sunday. Lets ride. 


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