# Mount Snow: Inside Track



## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

Well, we decided to start our own thread in honor of the fact that we once again have the most open terrain in the East. 

Check it!

Mount Snow: 181 acres, 19 trails 

Okemo: 133 acres, 20 trails

Loon: 100 acres, 16 trails

Sunday River: 93 acres, 16 trails

Stowe: 85 acres, 23 trails

Killington: 79 acres, 24 trails

Bretton: 78 acres, 9 trails

Stratton: 72 acres, 13 trails

Sugarloaf: 68 acres, 9 trails

Got questions for us? Write them below and I'll do my best to get them answered for you.


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## mister moose (Nov 24, 2017)

Acres of green terrain, and go nowhere connector trail segments do little for the experience, and aren't a reliable source to compare.  If I was Mt Snow, I'd talk about fan gun snow and fan gun trails.


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Acres of green terrain, and go nowhere connector trail segments do little for the experience, and aren't a reliable source to compare.  If I was Mt Snow, I'd talk about fan gun snow and fan gun trails.



We totally agree. That's why we focused on the top-to-bottom experiance right out the gate this year. Way better to get actual laps in, rather than leapfrogging all over the place.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 24, 2017)

My first day of the season will be Monday the 27th. Picked up a $39 ticket for Mt Snow on Liftopia.

What kind of snowmaking push will you make Sunday into Monday with the good temps? What Mt Snow has open right now looks great but of course I'm curious if there will be even more terrain opening up.

Anyway can't argue with the facts... Mt Snow has the most complete runs open. Glad to see you positioning yourself this way for early season, it's nice to have some options in November.


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## skimagic (Nov 24, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Acres of green terrain, and go nowhere connector trail segments do little for the experience, and aren't a reliable source to compare.  If I was Mt Snow, I'd talk about fan gun snow and fan gun trails.




What other mountains aren't doing the same.  It's thanks giving weekend, what do you expect?  Kudos to mount snow. More terrain more options.


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## chuckstah (Nov 24, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Acres of green terrain, and go nowhere connector trail segments do little for the experience, and aren't a reliable source to compare.  If I was Mt Snow, I'd talk about fan gun snow and fan gun trails.


This sounds like Killington, with the caveat formerly green trails and connectors. 

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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> My first day of the season will be Monday the 27th. Picked up a $39 ticket for Mt Snow on Liftopia.
> 
> What kind of snowmaking push will you make Sunday into Monday with the good temps? What Mt Snow has open right now looks great but of course I'm curious if there will be even more terrain opening up.
> 
> Anyway can't argue with the facts... Mt Snow has the most complete runs open. Glad to see you positioning yourself this way for early season, it's nice to have some options in November.



We'll be firing up pretty agressively duing the Sunday-Monday window. As for details, I can't leak any yet.


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## Bostonian (Nov 24, 2017)

What do you guys have on tap for tomorrow, I will be heading up for the day.    I am looking forward to comparing it to when I was up ther for opening day.


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## Jully (Nov 24, 2017)

Love that you're not only giving information out on the forum but being willing to answer questions! 

I have two questions. What is your snowmaking plan/timeline for additional North face trails? It is awesome that you had freefall from the get go as it is a fun trail and provides some variety and escape midday, but guns have been silent there for a few weeks now so I assume something is coming soon.

Also I have a more general question about the early opening in general. Do you think you'll continue to be this aggressive opening the mountain in years to come?


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

Jully said:


> Love that you're not only giving information out on the forum but being willing to answer questions!
> 
> I have two questions. What is your snowmaking plan/timeline for additional North face trails? It is awesome that you had freefall from the get go as it is a fun trail and provides some variety and escape midday, but guns have been silent there for a few weeks now so I assume something is coming soon.
> 
> Also I have a more general question about the early opening in general. Do you think you'll continue to be this aggressive opening the mountain in years to come?



1. North Face is next on the list. We wanted to lay down a great base on a number of our blue trails in advance of the holiday weekend so that we had enough options for our average passholder to have a great weekend. 

2. You know it! With this new system we can make a ton of snow very quickly, so we'll for sure be continuing this early season push as long as we get the early season temps. We haven't figured out how to make it colder...yet...


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

Bostonian said:


> What do you guys have on tap for tomorrow, I will be heading up for the day.    I am looking forward to comparing it to when I was up ther for opening day.



Snowmaking has shut down due to temps and won't be back online until Sunday, so we'll have the same 19 trails we do now. More details at mountsnow.com/snow-report


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

skimagic said:


> What other mountains aren't doing the same.  It's thanks giving weekend, what do you expect?  Kudos to mount snow. More terrain more options.



Thanks!


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 24, 2017)

Thanks for posting on this forum Mount Snow and way to go with your early season assault.

Question:  I plan to be up for Founders Day on the 12th as I have for the past 2 out of 3 years as you're usually my first day out.  I heard there's something going on at the Carinthia Base area (lodge remodel)? so is the parking lot planned to be open on the 12th and can I get my ticket there?  While Founders Day and ticket price is hard to beat, it can be a bit of a haul and chaos in the morning getting the ticket.

Thanks again for joining and keeping us posted as to MS happenings.


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Thanks for posting on this forum Mount Snow and way to go with your early season assault.
> 
> Question:  I plan to be up for Founders Day on the 12th as I have for the past 2 out of 3 years as you're usually my first day out.  I heard there's something going on at the Carinthia Base area (lodge remodel)? so is the parking lot planned to be open on the 12th and can I get my ticket there?  While Founders Day and ticket price is hard to beat, it can be a bit of a haul and chaos in the morning getting the ticket.
> 
> Thanks again for joining and keeping us posted as to MS happenings.



We're actually building a brand new $22M 42,000sq/ft lodge at the base of Carinthia, so parking is extremely limited this season. We'd highly reccomend parking at the Main Base Area.


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## mriceyman (Nov 24, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> We're actually building a brand new $22M 42,000sq/ft lodge at the base of Carinthia, so parking is extremely limited this season. We'd highly reccomend parking at the Main Base Area.



Transparency is huge and appreciated. I think other places should take notice. 


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## Pez (Nov 24, 2017)

You guys doing the Sunday sleeper thing again this year? 


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2017)

Pez said:


> You guys doing the Sunday sleeper thing again this year?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Yes, once we get done with early season pricing.


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## Pez (Nov 24, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Yes, once we get done with early season pricing.



looks to only be available online?


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## MountSnow (Nov 25, 2017)

Pez said:


> looks to only be available online?



They are available at the window as well.


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 25, 2017)

Thanks for the quick response Mt Snow.  Great that you're part of our community and information flow.  I'll make sure I just park in the main lots as per previous seasons.

One last question and I'll stop bothering you as I'm sure you've got more important things to handle.  I just received an email about Cyber Monday deals.  Most seem great and I'll probably take advantage of one or two, but I was looking at reviews of the Snow Lake Lodge offer and am disturb.  Is this property part of Mt Snow? I want to bring my ski activity and friends to your area, but is this Lodge as rundown as it is reviewed?  I don't require first class lodging all the time, but with a large family and friends I also don't want to be embarrassed if some of the reviews are true.  Your candor is appreciated.
Thank you.


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## MountSnow (Nov 25, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Thanks for the quick response Mt Snow.  Great that you're part of our community and information flow.  I'll make sure I just park in the main lots as per previous seasons.
> 
> One last question and I'll stop bothering you as I'm sure you've got more important things to handle.  I just received an email about Cyber Monday deals.  Most seem great and I'll probably take advantage of one or two, but I was looking at reviews of the Snow Lake Lodge offer and am disturb.  Is this property part of Mt Snow? I want to bring my ski activity and friends to your area, but is this Lodge as rundown as it is reviewed?  I don't require first class lodging all the time, but with a large family and friends I also don't want to be embarrassed if some of the reviews are true.  Your candor is appreciated.
> Thank you.



It's not the newest place we own, and you pay for what you get, so $60 per night at a ski area...I'll let you decide from there, but I'll say it's really popular with budget concious college kids. If you're bringing friends, I'd suggest the Grand Summit Hotel, or one of our many condos!


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## MountSnow (Nov 25, 2017)

Firing snowmaking back up once we get the temps on Sunday. Resurfacing, fortifying, expanding width, and prepping for additional terrain will be the name of the game. Probably a 36 hour run.


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## Pez (Nov 25, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> They are available at the window as well.



cool


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## WJenness (Nov 25, 2017)

Pez said:


> You guys doing the Sunday sleeper thing again this year?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



As someone who hasn't skied Mount Snow before...

Sunday sleeper thing?

-w


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## ss20 (Nov 25, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Most seem great and I'll probably take advantage of one or two, but I was looking at reviews of the Snow Lake Lodge offer and am disturb.  Is this property part of Mt Snow? I want to bring my ski activity and friends to your area, but is this Lodge as rundown as it is reviewed?  I don't require first class lodging all the time, but with a large family and friends I also don't want to be embarrassed if some of the reviews are true.  Your candor is appreciated.
> Thank you.



It's pretty dilapidated...it'll get the axe within 5-10 years I'd imagine.  It's supposed to get torn down in the master plan.  The rooms are very small with paper thin walls.  Last time I stayed there was 2015 and I don't think TV's were flatscreens.  Breakfast is good, indoor/outdoor pools are good.  Location is incredible for the price.  In management's defense they price it like its a 55-year-old, crumbling, neglected ski lodge that's on its last leg.  There used to be a wraparound deck that went around the whole Snow Lake Lodge...they took it down about a decade ago...take that fact and make your own interpretations as to why!

I would recommend checking out The Lodge at Mount Snow, which is 50 feet above the Snow Lake Lodge.  Much better place, imo, for the same price typically.  Hot buffet breakfast in-season is the kicker.  


If you're trying to make a good impression with family I wouldn't stay there.  That's coming from a bare-bones lodging guy, who,to put that in perspective, means I haven't paid $100+ per night at a hotel in...in...I honestly don't know.


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 26, 2017)

Thanks to everyone responding as I appreciate the intel.


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## MountSnow (Nov 26, 2017)

WJenness said:


> As someone who hasn't skied Mount Snow before...
> 
> Sunday sleeper thing?
> 
> -w



$39 Sunday Afternoon lift tickets. Or you can get a family 4 pack for just $99.


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## MountSnow (Nov 26, 2017)

Ok, so what else do you guys want to know?


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## laxski (Nov 26, 2017)

I hope Mt Snow is gonna be Late Season player now. With all this Snowmaking power you can lay down some serious base depths especially on the North Face and Ski well into May!!! A lot closer than Killington for most.


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## MountSnow (Nov 26, 2017)

A little inside track info for you all on Cyber Monday. 
https://www.mountsnow.com/tickets-passes/cyber-monday/


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2017)

Snowmaking plumes abound right now! Loving the West Lake firepower!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## MountSnow (Nov 26, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Snowmaking plumes abound right now! Loving the West Lake firepower!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We're currently running snowmaking on 153 of 183 open acres. 
This new system is performing beautifuly.


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## Smellytele (Nov 26, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Snowmaking plumes abound right now! Loving the West Lake firepower!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It should be better than the wet slop they blew this morning. Started too early before the temps dropped enough it seemed. It was better after noon. Also hopefully they don't groom with a steam roller like everything seemed to be north of the bluebird lift today.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2017)

Looking forward to tomorrow and glad to see most of the mountain is getting a refresher.


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## urungus (Nov 26, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Ok, so what else do you guys want to know?



How will the Carinthia Base Lodge construction project affect parking capacity at Carinthia, and proximity of parking to Nitro Express lift?  Both this year during construction, and next year after the new lodge opens?  Thanks.


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## urungus (Nov 27, 2017)

laxski said:


> I hope Mt Snow is gonna be Late Season player now. With all this Snowmaking power you can lay down some serious base depths especially on the North Face and Ski well into May!!! A lot closer than Killington for most.



@MountSnow ... any comment on this?  Will you be building up extra depth over the course of the year and/or running the new system in springtime to extend the season from when you would typically close in previous years?


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## laxski (Nov 27, 2017)

urungus said:


> @MountSnow ... any comment on this?  Will you be building up extra depth over the course of the year and/or running the new system in springtime to extend the season from when you would typically close in previous years?


The Freefall and Plummet Late Season would be Awesome You have Great setup with the Summit lodge and outdoor deck for burgers and Beers or water between runs


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## ss20 (Nov 27, 2017)

Whenever Mount Snow gets to mid-April it's a win.  They don't have a great late season setup if you want to stockpile snow on the North Face.  They'd have to run either detachable lift on the frontside for access and one of the triples on the North Face.  That's a lot of $$$.

They had a good plan where they would knock down all the features and jumps on Carinthia and host late season skiing over there.  That was smart.


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## MountSnow (Nov 27, 2017)

urungus said:


> How will the Carinthia Base Lodge construction project affect parking capacity at Carinthia, and proximity of parking to Nitro Express lift?  Both this year during construction, and next year after the new lodge opens?  Thanks.



This year will see quite a bit of reduced parking over at Carinthia as that will still be a construction site. This summer we will be installing a parking deck with parking on the main level and then on a subterrainian level for approx 700 cars, which should be a massive improvement. As for proximity to Nitro, you'll be a little further, but it will be worth it to have that sweet new lodge.


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## MountSnow (Nov 27, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Whenever Mount Snow gets to mid-April it's a win.  They don't have a great late season setup if you want to stockpile snow on the North Face.  They'd have to run either detachable lift on the frontside for access and one of the triples on the North Face.  That's a lot of $$$.
> 
> They had a good plan where they would knock down all the features and jumps on Carinthia and host late season skiing over there.  That was smart.



You nailed it. There's really no good way to ski the North Face late season as you have to run a lift on the front side as well. As for Carinthia, we do push all the jumps together in Inferno and then push them out on Memorial Day Weekend for Peace Pipe Jam (see it here https://vimeo.com/219562206)


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## MountSnow (Nov 27, 2017)

urungus said:


> @MountSnow ... any comment on this?  Will you be building up extra depth over the course of the year and/or running the new system in springtime to extend the season from when you would typically close in previous years?



We don't have any direct plans to give Killi a run for it's money on the late season game, but we should have a better Spring base all over the mountain with this new system.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 27, 2017)

Any plans to blow snow (at night) or expand this week with highs hitting the low 40's this week?

Saturday was a blast!  It was like Mid-April spring riding conditions.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 27, 2017)

Just got home from skiing 9:00 - 1:00 just about non stop. First day out... 17 runs... legs didn't start burning until the last run.

The guns were running all day, which I'm not a huge fan of skiing under but considering there is a really good reason to leave the guns on today I won't complain.

Surfaces were consistently edgeable and in some places they were pretty great especially once some folks pushed the snow around a bit. Only real exception was either Sundance or lower Canyon (not sure which it was) which was an ice rink. Smooth yellowish water ice, not talking glorified hard-pack. It was laughably bad, and I didn't see it coming so it basically meant straight lining the trail on ice because I came upon the ice rink with too much speed to try and cut.

But every other run was good. Freefall was fast and firm but probably my favorite. Ridge was good conditions (and under the guns). Long John and Little John were in mid-season condition.

In case I sound unimpressed -- I was. Massive snowmaking efforts, and the mountain skied very well today with trails in good condition in green, blue and black. Great day to start the season. Mount Snow delivered and certainly not below expectations.


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## Smellytele (Nov 27, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> In case I sound unimpressed -- I was. Massive snowmaking efforts, and the mountain skied very well today with trails in good condition in green, blue and black. Great day to start the season. Mount Snow delivered and certainly not below expectations.



This part makes no sense to me  - unimpressed then the explanation sounded as you were.


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## IceEidolon (Nov 27, 2017)

I read it as "In case I didn't sound impressed - I was (impressed)."

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## mbedle (Nov 27, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> This part makes no sense to me  - unimpressed then the explanation sounded as you were.



I am pretty sure he meant to say "I wasn't". But as it is written, it doesn't sound right.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 27, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> This part makes no sense to me  - unimpressed then the explanation sounded as you were.



something tells me you figured it out

Quick, Scotty, post a trip report and take some of this heat off me!


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## Jcb890 (Nov 27, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> something tells me you figured it out
> 
> Quick, Scotty, post a trip report and take some of this heat off me!


Best trip report ever still has to be the Jay Peak Pooper.


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## mbedle (Nov 27, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> something tells me you figured it out
> 
> Quick, Scotty, post a trip report and take some of this heat off me!



Its all is good fun. lol


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## cdskier (Nov 27, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Best trip report ever still has to be the Jay Peak Pooper.



I was so close to erasing that completely from my mind...and then you had to bring it back up!


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 27, 2017)

If I see any of you up at Jay in the spring and you want to hit Pump House, I'll be happy to pose for a photograph in the exact spot the event took place!


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## MountSnow (Nov 27, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Any plans to blow snow (at night) or expand this week with highs hitting the low 40's this week?
> 
> Saturday was a blast!  It was like Mid-April spring riding conditions.



As you said, the temps are in the low 40's which rules out making snow. Once we get the temps again we'll be firing up once again to expand. We put in a great 36 hour run though over the past day and a half which really helped to fatten up both widths and base depths as well as prep other trails to open. We also focused some serious firepower on Nitro as we're going to open it as a park on Friday.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 29, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> As you said, the temps are in the low 40's which rules out making snow. Once we get the temps again we'll be firing up once again to expand. We put in a great 36 hour run though over the past day and a half which really helped to fatten up both widths and base depths as well as prep other trails to open. We also focused some serious firepower on Nitro as we're going to open it as a park on Friday.


Any updates for us as the week progresses?  Daily highs are still high-30's after today, but all of the nightly lows are 32 or below.

In general, will mountains (Mt. Snow included) not bother blowing snow at night if there's only a few hour window?  What is the minimum window mountains usually shoot for?  Do they wait for a solid 24+ hours where temps will be optimal?  I'm mostly just curious, what Mt. Snow has offered so far has been fantastic.


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## andrec10 (Nov 29, 2017)

MountSnow, can you speak to your Hunter counterparts to set up an account here? It would be awesome of we got the same communications from them here as well.


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## MountSnow (Nov 29, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Any updates for us as the week progresses?  Daily highs are still high-30's after today, but all of the nightly lows are 32 or below.
> 
> In general, will mountains (Mt. Snow included) not bother blowing snow at night if there's only a few hour window?  What is the minimum window mountains usually shoot for?  Do they wait for a solid 24+ hours where temps will be optimal?  I'm mostly just curious, what Mt. Snow has offered so far has been fantastic.



We won't be firing up this week with those temps. While we could run for a few hours here and there, it's really not worth it to us. We're super happy with the snow we've made so far and the base depths that we've been able to establish, which puts us in the nice position of not having the scramble and run in short windows with marginal temps. 

We much perfer longer run times when we can really open things up and put in some major production. Also, it takes time to turn on each and every gun, and when we're running 250+ guns by the time we get them all going we'd be almost needing to shut some down if we just had a short window of a few hours. Does that make sense?


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## Jcb890 (Nov 29, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> We won't be firing up this week with those temps. While we could run for a few hours here and there, it's really not worth it to us. We're super happy with the snow we've made so far and the base depths that we've been able to establish, which puts us in the nice position of not having the scramble and run in short windows with marginal temps.
> 
> We much perfer longer run times when we can really open things up and put in some major production. Also, it takes time to turn on each and every gun, and when we're running 250+ guns by the time we get them all going we'd be almost needing to shut some down if we just had a short window of a few hours. Does that make sense?


It absolutely makes sense and I figured that's what the "_normal_" plan usually was/is.  I figured it would not make sense to run the guns for only a few hours.


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## MountSnow (Nov 29, 2017)

andrec10 said:


> MountSnow, can you speak to your Hunter counterparts to set up an account here? It would be awesome of we got the same communications from them here as well.



I'll pass it along, but no guarantees. 
They are their own mountain after all.


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## slatham (Nov 29, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> It absolutely makes sense and I figured that's what the "_normal_" plan usually was/is.  I figured it would not make sense to run the guns for only a few hours.



This makes perfect sense given the huge amount of snow made thus far. But I would hesitate to guess that in leaner times Mt Snow (and others) would take advantage of even short windows of adequate temps to make what they can, while they can.


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## MountSnow (Nov 30, 2017)

slatham said:


> This makes perfect sense given the huge amount of snow made thus far. But I would hesitate to guess that in leaner times Mt Snow (and others) would take advantage of even short windows of adequate temps to make what they can, while they can.



Oh absolutely, especially when it comes to refreshing things for the weekends so that we can deliver the best snow product possible.


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## 180 (Nov 30, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> I'll pass it along, but no guarantees.
> They are their own mountain after all.



I hear Mt Snow calls all the shots down there


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## MountSnow (Dec 2, 2017)

180 said:


> I hear Mt Snow calls all the shots down there



Not at all.


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## MountSnow (Dec 5, 2017)

Get ready for another big snowmaking push starting Wednesday once we get the temps.


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## ss20 (Dec 5, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Get ready for another big snowmaking push starting Wednesday once we get the temps.



Any ideas on how much time you guys will spend re-surfacing vs expanding?  Okemo says Jackson gore will open up Friday...


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## MountSnow (Dec 5, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Any ideas on how much time you guys will spend re-surfacing vs expanding?  Okemo says Jackson gore will open up Friday...



We'll release the plan for resurfacing and expansion here shortly.


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 5, 2017)

Looks like a real long stretch of sm temps starting late this week and getting better through next week.


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## MountSnow (Dec 5, 2017)

SIKSKIER said:


> Looks like a real long stretch of sm temps starting late this week and getting better through next week.



Time to see what this new system can really do.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 5, 2017)

Do you know if the plan is to blow snow continually on Saturday and Sunday while the mountain is operating?  If so, information on where would be great... I know it is still early, so we're eagerly awaiting the posting of your plans.


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## drjeff (Dec 5, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Do you know if the plan is to blow snow continually on Saturday and Sunday while the mountain is operating?  If so, information on where would be great... I know it is still early, so we're eagerly awaiting the posting of your plans.




My hunch is if mother nature cooperates with her timing and temps, as it appears now, come Saturday they'll be done with the resurfacing and onto expansion mode! 

Me and my regular crew of ski buddies on the Bluebird on Sunday were placing our bets on how long we feel it will take, if the temps hold out for an extended period of time, for them to finish off all of their snowmaking terrain...

If next week is cold as their saying, I bet on the following weekend, the 16th/17th for finishing off the initial snowmaking run on all of their available snowmaking terrain.... Time will tell, and will show if I'm having apres beers bought for me or buying my ski buddies apres beers!


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## ScottySkis (Dec 5, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> something tells me you figured it out
> 
> Quick, Scotty, post a trip report and take some of this heat off me!



It is Mountain Snow by the way.


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## Newpylong (Dec 5, 2017)

drjeff said:


> My hunch is if mother nature cooperates with her timing and temps, as it appears now, come Saturday they'll be done with the resurfacing and onto expansion mode!
> 
> Me and my regular crew of ski buddies on the Bluebird on Sunday were placing our bets on how long we feel it will take, if the temps hold out for an extended period of time, for them to finish off all of their snowmaking terrain...
> 
> If next week is cold as their saying, I bet on the following weekend, the 16th/17th for finishing off the initial snowmaking run on all of their available snowmaking terrain.... Time will tell, and will show if I'm having apres beers bought for me or buying my ski buddies apres beers!



10K K+ GPM is a lot of capacity but that's a lot of acreage. I don't think everything will be covered by then.


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## WJenness (Dec 5, 2017)

Things sound like they should be shaping up nice for Founders Day next Tuesday.
Looking forward to it.

-w


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## slatham (Dec 5, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> 10K K+ GPM is a lot of capacity but that's a lot of acreage. I don't think everything will be covered by then.



Given what they already have covered, and 10 days of good to excellent snowmaking conditions, I think they have a solid chance to finish up. Possible exception is the need to put so much snow on Ripcord.......


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## ss20 (Dec 5, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> 10K K+ GPM is a lot of capacity but that's a lot of acreage. I don't think everything will be covered by then.



Ditto.

Lot's of long trails need to be covered.  Mineshaft and Season's Pass in Carinthia.  Thanks Walt in Sunbrook.  South Bowl, Ego Alley, and Roller Coaster on the Main Face.  Plummet, Ripcord, Fallen Timbers, and Cute on the North Face.  And then short trails like Beartrap and Yard Sale.  

That's a lot of trails.  And they all need setup time since they're traditional air/water setups.


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## Newpylong (Dec 5, 2017)

Needless to say even having the conversation is a testament to the new system. They would be looking at mid-January in past years for nearing full coverage, if not later. Very exciting.


----------



## MountSnow (Dec 6, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> 10K K+ GPM is a lot of capacity but that's a lot of acreage. I don't think everything will be covered by then.



Quick correction: Our system is 11,800 GPM


----------



## ss20 (Dec 6, 2017)

Snow report says they'll resurface everything but Nitro, Lodge, and Inferno tonight.  That's a massive amount of guns going if its's true...
Webcams show FreeFall getting some love from the guns.  I need a place to ski Friday and if they don't groom it out they'd probably get my money.  

Neither Okemo nor Stratton have snowmaking on their cams currently (2pm).  Mount Snow has been going since late this morning and they're all the way down to the base already.


----------



## NYDB (Dec 6, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Snow report says they'll resurface everything but Nitro, Lodge, and Inferno tonight.  That's a massive amount of guns going if its's true...
> Webcams show FreeFall getting some love from the guns.  I need a place to ski Friday and if they don't groom it out they'd probably get my money.
> 
> Neither Okemo nor Stratton have snowmaking on their cams currently (2pm).  Mount Snow has been going since late this morning and they're all the way down to the base already.



Stratton has had the guns on since 9am and right now looks like they have the whole skiers right of the mountain lit up.  I'm sure Okemo ( and every other large resort) was doing the same.  

I know this is a Mount Snow thread, but lets not get too fapping crazy


----------



## Morewood (Dec 6, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Snow report says they'll resurface everything but Nitro, Lodge, and Inferno tonight.  That's a massive amount of guns going if its's true...
> Webcams show FreeFall getting some love from the guns.  I need a place to ski Friday and if they don't groom it out they'd probably get my money.
> 
> Neither Okemo nor Stratton have snowmaking on their cams currently (2pm).  Mount Snow has been going since late this morning and they're all the way down to the base already.




Okemo is making snow at Jackson Gore on the upper trails.


----------



## MountSnow (Dec 6, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Snow report says they'll resurface everything but Nitro, Lodge, and Inferno tonight.  That's a massive amount of guns going if its's true...
> Webcams show FreeFall getting some love from the guns.  I need a place to ski Friday and if they don't groom it out they'd probably get my money.
> 
> Neither Okemo nor Stratton have snowmaking on their cams currently (2pm).  Mount Snow has been going since late this morning and they're all the way down to the base already.



If it's true? Of course it's true. We're resurfacing on 17 trails tonight, and it's all thanks to this new snowmaking system.


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## machski (Dec 6, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> If it's true? Of course it's true. We're resurfacing on 17 trails tonight, and it's all thanks to this new snowmaking system.


When you resurface, do you use every gun and hydrant on the trail or use every other or every third?  Curious as this varies from area to area strategy-wise.

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## MountSnow (Dec 6, 2017)

machski said:


> When you resurface, do you use every gun and hydrant on the trail or use every other or every third?  Curious as this varies from area to area strategy-wise.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Totally depends on the trail, pitch, and existing conditions. For example, we're running every gun on Free Fall right now, but every other on Long John. We've also got every other on Ridge, except for one pitch where we're running every one.


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## MountSnow (Dec 6, 2017)

*Update at 3:34pm*

Currently, we're running 191 guns that are using around 50% of system capacity, or 5,000/11,800. The plan tonight is to have 250+ plus going.


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## Glenn (Dec 6, 2017)

NY DirtBag said:


> Stratton has had the guns on since 9am and right now looks like they have the whole skiers right of the mountain lit up.  I'm sure Okemo ( and every other large resort) was doing the same.
> 
> I know this is a Mount Snow thread, but lets not get too fapping crazy



Yep. Started at the Summit and worked their way down as the temps dropped. The mid mountain cam now moves and shows more of the mountain. 

Just checked the Mt. Snow cams and seems they're blowing snow just about everywhere. Nice!


----------



## MountSnow (Dec 6, 2017)

Glenn said:


> Just checked the Mt. Snow cams and seems they're blowing snow just about everywhere. Nice!



Just about everywhere is right.


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## Jully (Dec 6, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Just about everywhere is right. View attachment 22892



Love seeing snowmaking maps like that! Impressive stuff.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 6, 2017)

I've never cared for mount snow. the terrain just bores me. but reading this thread, i must give credit where credit is due. a huge +1 for being so communicative with us here, and a huge +1 for this impressive snowmaking investment and utilization. way to go.


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## drjeff (Dec 6, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> *Update at 3:34pm*
> 
> Currently, we're running 191 guns that are using around 50% of system capacity, or 5,000/11,800. The plan tonight is to have 250+ plus going.



Damn!!!  Loving the West Lake firepower!!


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## Newpylong (Dec 6, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Quick correction: Our system is 11,800 GPM



Right, which is why I said 10K +.


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## mister moose (Dec 6, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Quick correction: Our system is 11,800 GPM


Geek question.

Where does the 11,800 number come from?

Manufacturer open flow number?
Manufacturer number for given pressure?
Does it take into account Mt Snow's pipe diameters?

Because I'm guessing no one ever put a bucket under every gun and measured it.

Are there flow meters anywhere in the system?

Thanks!


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## deadheadskier (Dec 6, 2017)

It's too bad that Peaks snowmaking efforts in New Hampshire have been a joke so far this year.  

Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Newpylong (Dec 6, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Geek question.
> 
> Where does the 11,800 number come from?
> 
> ...



Usually a systems performance is advertised as what the pumps can discharge. There is a performance curve for each pump based on pressure, flow and head height. IE Pump X can discharge 1,000 GPM @ 600 psi at 1300 TDH (total dynamic head or how high it can pump at those numbers). There flow meters in the pump house and usually on the mountain as well.

Jamie correct me if I am wrong but the new Carinthia pumphouse has 5 pumps 10,000 GPM total which is then boosted at Roy with 5 identical pumps to the summit. The main uphill line up Ridge is large enough to get all of this water to the summit. The remainder of the water 1800 GPM comes out of the Upper Carinthia pumphouse.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 6, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> It's too bad that Peaks snowmaking efforts in New Hampshire have been a joke so far this year.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app



You know Mount Snow is their baby...


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 6, 2017)

ss20 said:


> You know Mount Snow is their baby...


For sure, it's their cash cow, but if they neglect their NH passholders too much we will go elsewhere.  I've voted with my wallet before.  I could do it again.  Cannon is looking mighty good right now.  

Peaks owns three areas in the state.  They'll likely still have only one of three open this weekend with zero novice terrain open at Wildcat.  As someone with a toddler I'm eager to get skiing, it pisses me off that the only option I got this weekend is driving him 3 hours to Snow. 

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## chuckstah (Dec 6, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> For sure, it's their cash cow, but if they neglect their NH passholders too much we will go elsewhere.  I've voted with my wallet before.  I could do it again.  Cannon is looking mighty good right now.
> 
> Peaks owns three areas in the state.  They'll likely still have only one of three open this weekend with zero novice terrain open at Wildcat.  As someone with a toddler I'm eager to get skiing, it pisses me off that the only option I got this weekend is driving him 3 hours to Snow.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app



I agree.  Being a new this season NH Peak passholder I have really liked the effort at Mt Snow. Great job.  I've had a handful of good days there. However, I was also expecting more terrain in NH by this point.  Many areas much further south than Crotched are open, and Wildcat has basically 2 and a bit runs. And no Attitash yet. Weak.  I switched from a Boyne pass to the Peak pass this season for cost, but if I end up buying a bunch of early, or late,  lift tickets to ski elsewhere it's no bargain.  Boyne has lots of terrain open at 3 resorts, and I am missing my local option at Loon.  I hope I feel differently by the end of my season, or I will certainly consider other options such as Cannon or back to Boyne.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 7, 2017)

To take a Highwaystar quote and put it to use for peaks.  Peaks=fail!


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## Jcb890 (Dec 7, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> I agree.  Being a new this season NH Peak passholder I have really liked the effort at Mt Snow. Great job.  I've had a handful of good days there. However, I was also expecting more terrain in NH by this point.  Many areas much further south than Crotched are open, and Wildcat has basically 2 and a bit runs. And no Attitash yet. Weak.  I switched from a Boyne pass to the Peak pass this season for cost, but if I end up buying a bunch of early, or late,  lift tickets to ski elsewhere it's no bargain.  Boyne has lots of terrain open at 3 resorts, and I am missing my local option at Loon.  I hope I feel differently by the end of my season, or I will certainly consider other options such as Cannon or back to Boyne.


Its a shame because the forecast for Wildcat Saturday evening looks pretty solid, I'm seeing 4-6" on snow-forecast.com, but if they've only got 2-2.5 paths down the mountain, I'll have a hard time selling the wife on that.


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 7, 2017)

I will say that Wildcat has the same acres open as Cannon but it feels like a lot more at Cannon because of how its broken up into the lift pods.Technically Cannon only has 2 ttb runs because there are only 2 trails open at the top.Many more options from mid down though.That will change soon as 2 more will open at the top soon plus Mittersill wont be far behind as they are there now.FWIW


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## Glenn (Dec 7, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Just about everywhere is right. View attachment 22892



This would be a cool thing to integrate onto the webcams page.


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## Jully (Dec 7, 2017)

Glenn said:


> This would be a cool thing to integrate onto the webcams page.



Agree! I'd love to see more ski areas do that. Sunday River posted a picture of the snowmaking map and what they were lighting up early season. It would be cool to see that as expansion progresses!


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## MountSnow (Dec 7, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Geek question.
> 
> Where does the 11,800 number come from?
> 
> ...



You asked, so here we go (had to go to our VP of Special Ops for this one, so it's going to get a bit techy):

The short answer is that Mount Snow has two pumping systems. West Lake Pumphouse at 10,000 gpm design and upper Carinthia Pumphouse at 11,800 design. Pumps all have pump curves - where the nameplate flow and head (discharge pressure) is at a point typically called Qopt. With a normal pump curve flow is inversely proportional to pressure. IE - if the flow increases (turn more guns on) the pressure decreases. 

That’s based on theoretical design. Friction comes into play (most directly with pipe diameter) 
This is what we’ve actually flowed this year:
West Lake Pumphouse has 5 pumps that are all 2,000 gpm pumps. 
Carinthia Pumphouse has 8 pumps that are 1,000 gpm pumps that are rated to produce about 700 psi of total head. We don’t need this much pressure now, so by running those pumps further out on their curve we have been able to produce 9,600 gpm out of 8 pumps (measured by an ultrasonic flowmeter). 

We also reconfigured upper Carinthia, so that it only runs down - which lets us run much further out on the curve there (don’t need as much pressure) We’ve seen 2,250 gpm (measured by an ultrasonic flow meter) there this season. 

So technically our max flow to date has been 11,850. The key for opening terrain fast is the crew and gun infrastructure. We’re averaging well over 9,000 gpm for the season which is nearly an 80% utilization rate. For a system of this size - that’s the most important #.


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## ss20 (Dec 7, 2017)

Freefall to be groomed tonight or not?


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## drjeff (Dec 7, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Freefall to be groomed tonight or not?



Considering it was about 2 weeks before they groomed it after the 1st round of snowmaking on it, my hunch is it stays whaled up, and let the water drain out of the fresh snow until Plummet and Chute open up in a few days


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## ss20 (Dec 7, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Considering it was about 2 weeks before they groomed it after the 1st round of snowmaking on it, my hunch is it stays whaled up, and let the water drain out of the fresh snow until Plummet and Chute open up in a few days



Thanks Jeff.  I was thinking the same thing.  

I have the suspicion that you feel de-throned from the position of "AZ's Mount Snow King" now that we have this thread... 

:lol::lol::lol:


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## MountSnow (Dec 7, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Thanks Jeff.  I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> I have the suspicion that you feel de-throned from the position of "AZ's Mount Snow King" now that we have this thread...
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:



Long live King Jeff!


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## cdskier (Dec 7, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Damn!!!  Loving the West Lake firepower!!



Drjeff should make this his signature! I feel like he's said this about 100 times so far this season 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## drjeff (Dec 7, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Long live King Jeff!


A certain bartender in the Taproom this past weekend gave me my own Mount Snow "staff" pin with my name as "Governor" - so all is good!!!! 

Now I just need to find who took my "Dr Jeff" name plate off one of my preferred Taproom corner barstools!! 

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## urungus (Dec 7, 2017)

Looks like Mother Nature will be helping out:


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## mister moose (Dec 7, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> You asked, so here we go...



Thanks. I'm aware of the complexity of expressing pump capacity, so your explanation clarifies what is actual, not just rated.


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## MountSnow (Dec 8, 2017)

mister moose said:


> Thanks. I'm aware of the complexity of expressing pump capacity, so your explanation clarifies what is actual, not just rated.



Happy to help. That's what we're here for.


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## MountSnow (Dec 8, 2017)

Fun stat: We've utilized 500 individual guns in the past 24 hours. It's really amazing the difference it makes having so much fixed infrastructure. This map is a few hours old, but as of this morning we have 301 guns going on 18 trails. BOOM!


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## Jcb890 (Dec 8, 2017)

Thank you very much for the insight and information.  Those maps are awesome to see also.

Is Sundance the pod of trails up at the top of the photo?  Is that all natural snowfall terrain or is there some snow making over there?  Sorry, I can't remember that last part.
Also, what are the dotted red lines on the map?  Are they snow gun locations which are currently off?


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## MountSnow (Dec 8, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Thank you very much for the insight and information.  Those maps are awesome to see also.
> 
> Is Sundance the pod of trails up at the top of the photo?  Is that all natural snowfall terrain or is there some snow making over there?  Sorry, I can't remember that last part.
> Also, what are the dotted red lines on the map?  Are they snow gun locations which are currently off?



Yes, that top part is natural snow only terrain on Sunbrook...for now...

Green Dot = Snowgun in use 
Red Dot = Snowgun idle


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## Jcb890 (Dec 8, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Yes, that top part is natural snow only terrain on Sunbrook...for now...
> 
> Green Dot = Snowgun in use
> Red Dot = Snowgun idle


Whoops, Sunbrook!  I always seem to get the naming confused between Sundance lodge and Sunbrook trails.  Thanks!


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 8, 2017)

drjeff said:


> *Damn!!!  Loving the West Lake firepower!!*



I've never skied at Mount Snow, but I did pick up an interesting tid-bit listening to their 3Q17 earnings call yesterday.   

They mentioned that at Christmas time, historically they have 50% to 70% of their terrain open, but now with the increased mojo they think that's going to be 80% at worst and possibly 100%.  As I'm sure you know, that week is the #1 revenue week for ski resorts, so that really caught my ear as being financially significant.  Not just because skiers tend to migrate to areas where the most terrain is open, but also because there is a $$ pull-through on terrain expansion as you dont have to discount, so top-line revenue should look better because of that on that front as well.  Lastly, when you think about last season, the early season was pretty poor IIRC, so SKIS YoY comps are probably going to look really good in 1Q18.  My 2¢.


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## Smellytele (Dec 8, 2017)

Not sure why the masses ski so much on Christmas week. Conditions are usually marginal (maybe not at Mt Snow this year) but I guess all students have that week off while in Feb/March different towns have different weeks off - if at all.


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## Jully (Dec 8, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> Not sure why the masses ski so much on Christmas week. Conditions are usually marginal (maybe not at Mt Snow this year) but I guess all students have that week off while in Feb/March different towns have different weeks off - if at all.



Everyone has the week off, exactly. Only other week off during ski season is a week in February, but that is one of as many as 3 different weeks so the crowds aren't the same with the exception of the  Saturday of President's day weekend.

Also the notion of the 'white christmas' is everywhere. Not everyone (probably most don't) understands that christmas is the literal beginning of snowy season, not a midway point.


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## slatham (Dec 8, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Yes, that top part is natural snow only terrain on Sunbrook...for now...
> 
> Green Dot = Snowgun in use
> Red Dot = Snowgun idle



And BLUE = open terrain?

Really impressive. Nice that mother nature is cooperating and letting you show off!


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## slatham (Dec 9, 2017)

Mt Snow, you need a light on your snow stake cam!!!


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2017)

Currently about 25 about 300 ft above the base. 2" of snow on my deck. Was probably 3" at one of my son's friend's house's, that's maybe another 150-200ft higher in elevation than my place is, when I dropped him off about an hour ago. Snowing lightly currently. Definitely let up a bit compared to a few hours ago.

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2017)

11PM update.... Still about 25 on my back deck up across the street from Mount Snow... 3" on the deck... Still snowing lightly, no wind, and the sound of, plus the lights of fan guns running across the valley... 

Going to be a VERY GOOD day tomorrow!! 

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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2017)

REALLY GOOD out on the hill this morning!! The most common thing being said among the group I was skiing with this morning is "is it really only December 10th??" 

Snowmaking expansion into Sunbrook has also started from what I have seen near the top of Carinthia. 

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## Pez (Dec 10, 2017)

At mount snow now.  First day skiing this year and first day with new skis. 

Good coverage but it's getting skied off in places. Considering the lack of natural snow it's really very good.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Jcb890 (Dec 11, 2017)

Yesterday was a fun day... sucked getting up at 3:15 AM to snow blow before driving up, but could have been worse.  I was worried because my tires are getting pretty bald, but the roads weren't too bad either.

Conditions were best 1st thing in the morning, but pretty good up until we stopped at about 12:30.  Some spots were getting ski'd off.  Some of the skiers and riders yesterday were quite bad and taking up a lot of the trail width too, so that was a pain when it was busy, haha.


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## MountSnow (Dec 12, 2017)

drjeff said:


> REALLY GOOD out on the hill this morning!! The most common thing being said among the group I was skiing with this morning is "is it really only December 10th??"
> 
> Snowmaking expansion into Sunbrook has also started from what I have seen near the top of Carinthia.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



We're hammering Sunbrook right now! Love these new HKD guns.


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## MountSnow (Dec 12, 2017)

I'll just leave these here...


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## Yooper (Dec 12, 2017)

Question On/in your Snow Report you state 5 Lifts Running but further down in Lifts you State 8. When will you be Running Canyon Express on week days? Also seems the Web Cams how error since you stopped live streams on YouTube


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## Glenn (Dec 13, 2017)

It was nice seeing it snow yesterday...and some snow guns running.


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## WJenness (Dec 13, 2017)

Tried to go to Mt. Snow yesterday...

Arrived at about quarter after 10.

The parking lot was a zoo.

Tried for a spot in the first lot I came to, no dice. Checked a couple other lots, then decided to head out and go to Stratton (Yay, Max pass).

Lost my $12 I had spent on the lift ticket, but still had a great day at Stratton (and likely won't use all 5 days there anyway), and it was so much quieter, snowed all day, was great.

Will have to go check Mount Snow out some other time.

-w


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## Cornhead (Dec 13, 2017)

Ha, at least you only blew $12. Glad I didn't go, my buddy Dick was trying to talk me into it, he didn't go there either, Hunter. 

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## MountSnow (Dec 13, 2017)

WJenness said:


> Tried to go to Mt. Snow yesterday...
> 
> Arrived at about quarter after 10.
> 
> ...



Yeah...$12 plus a foot of fresh turned this place into a bit of a zoo yesterday.


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## MountSnow (Dec 13, 2017)

Yooper said:


> Question On/in your Snow Report you state 5 Lifts Running but further down in Lifts you State 8. When will you be Running Canyon Express on week days? Also seems the Web Cams how error since you stopped live streams on YouTube



Our snowreporter got a bit confused and read the lift report for a nornal Tuesday instead of the one for Founder Day. As for the cameras, they have been refreshed and are working now. They actually were still working on our YouTube page, but just not on our site for some reason.


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## sugarbushskier (Dec 14, 2017)

Founders Day was a shitshow, but once you got past the hordes of people, the skiing rocked. Felt like ropes were dropping all day, and although the fresh powder made some of the non snowmaking trails and trail sides a bit hairy, it was all in all a great day.  Trip up and back sucked with traffic and weather, but still glad I went.  Grand Summit quad was ski on, so while everyone was waiting for the Bluebird, we were lapping the mountain.  Trail skiers right on Carinthia was the ROTD as a foot of untracked was sweet.


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## MountSnow (Dec 14, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Founders Day was a shitshow, but once you got past the hordes of people, the skiing rocked. Felt like ropes were dropping all day, and although the fresh powder made some of the non snowmaking trails and trail sides a bit hairy, it was all in all a great day.  Trip up and back sucked with traffic and weather, but still glad I went.  Grand Summit quad was ski on, so while everyone was waiting for the Bluebird, we were lapping the mountain.  Trail skiers right on Carinthia was the ROTD as a foot of untracked was sweet.



It never ceases to amaze us how people will wait in line for the Bluebird while Grand Summit Express is ski-on.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 14, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> It never ceases to amaze us how people will wait in line for the Bluebird while Grand Summit Express is ski-on.


We were there on Sunday and used the Bluebird until there was a line, then went to the Grand Summit Express because it was pretty much ski-on.  However, after a few runs using the GSE, we were getting a bit cold on the rides back up.  When that happens, the bubble is nice to have.


----------



## MountSnow (Dec 14, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> We were there on Sunday and used the Bluebird until there was a line, then went to the Grand Summit Express because it was pretty much ski-on.  However, after a few runs using the GSE, we were getting a bit cold on the rides back up.  When that happens, the bubble is nice to have.



Oh for sure, when it's cold the Bluebird is the call. We were more commenting on sunny nice days. That's when it's a real headscratcher.


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## benski (Dec 14, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> It never ceases to amaze us how people will wait in line for the Bluebird while Grand Summit Express is ski-on.



Bluebird is the greatest lift in for this reason only. Only time I used it it was 0, windy and no bump runs open.


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2017)

Just a little snowmaking action/results on display this morning! Gotta love lots of pumping capacity and single digit temps! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











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## Smellytele (Dec 17, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Just a little snowmaking action/results on display this morning! Gotta love lots of pumping capacity and single digit temps



At the cost of their other ski areas


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## skifree (Dec 17, 2017)

Ripcord was very nice this morning.


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## drjeff (Dec 17, 2017)

skifree said:


> Ripcord was very nice this morning.



Agree!  Chalky goodness for sure!


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## Jcb890 (Dec 18, 2017)

Went both days this weekend and had a great time.  Conditions Saturday were pretty great throughout the day with snow throughout most of the day.  Yesterday was harder, faster and colder.  Still fun though.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 18, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> At the cost of their other ski areas


Who makes the call on that though?  Is that actually what is happening?  Hopefully not.


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## Jully (Dec 18, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Who makes the call on that though?  Is that actually what is happening?  Hopefully not.



Its not confirmed by any official source, but the NH areas with the exception of maybe Wildcat has seen pretty drastically reduced operations this fall/winter. 

In one of the coldest Novembers in recent history Attitash pushed back its opening date and claimed this November had been tough.

Crotched kept pushing back its opening and giving minimal information also claiming bad weather (the 12" Tuesday storm would be all rain they said, and also a 'warm' November). When Crotched did open it was with a paltry amount of trails open (1.5ish) given the days and days of temps in the single digit and teens leading up to their opening. Also this was Crotched 4th latest opening since it reopened 14 years ago. There have been falls way worse than this one and they still got open. Somethings not right.

Given that Crotched was so spotty with their information, I think the reality was that they didn't even know and the decision was coming down from higher up in Peaks.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 18, 2017)

Jully said:


> Its not confirmed by any official source, but the NH areas with the exception of maybe Wildcat has seen pretty drastically reduced operations this fall/winter.
> 
> In one of the coldest Novembers in recent history Attitash pushed back its opening date and claimed this November had been tough.
> 
> ...


I agree that doesn't sound or look good.  I doubt anyone here posting from the MountSnow account will know or be able to shed any light on it though.


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## Smellytele (Dec 18, 2017)

I have nothing against the Mt Snow folk whom seem to be using the allocated funds as would anyone more so the Peaks higher ups who make the decision on distribution of funds.


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## Jully (Dec 18, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> I have nothing against the Mt Snow folk whom seem to be using the allocated funds as would anyone more so the Peaks higher ups who make the decision on distribution of funds.



Exactly. Certainly not the fault of any of the mountain operators and we might be completely off base! Peaks has been very solid operators of the mountains they own. I understand saving money and utilizing the pass reciprocity, but just wish they would be more upfront about it. The lack of communication and lame excuses from Crotched this fall bugged me the most.

If they had said, we will be opening Friday 12/15, can't wait to see you all then! Then I would have little to no problem.


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## Smellytele (Dec 18, 2017)

Jully said:


> Exactly. Certainly not the fault of any of the mountain operators and we might be completely off base! Peaks has been very solid operators of the mountains they own. I understand saving money and utilizing the pass reciprocity, but just wish they would be more upfront about it. The lack of communication and lame excuses from Crotched this fall bugged me the most.
> 
> If they had said, we will be opening Friday 12/15, can't wait to see you all then! Then I would have little to no problem.



They did the same at Attitash


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 18, 2017)

Mount Snow has been unbelievable this entire year. I will even go as far to say we have crowned a new "Beast of the East" now that West Lake is online and everyone has seen the product first hand. It was almost humorous to see Killington squirm to open to save face (i'm sorry if you need to use stairs it shouldn't count). 

To those who are hating on Peaks Resorts you need to remember that it is still pre-christmas and even last year you guys were skiing until May at Wildcat! Spent Sunday skiing Crotched for the first time and it truly is a gem.. most worthwhile day-trip mountain in the Boston area if you ask me. Skis much bigger with a very low key crowd.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 19, 2017)

Gregory,

Some of us with criticism of Peaks are coming from a position of having a pass for several years and simply commenting on a reduction in effort / investment in some of the product in NH.  

I'd actually say Wildcats efforts this fall have been the best of the past five years.  Yes, there has been nights plenty cold enough to blow and they dishonestly blame on the weather (or worse state annoyingly that staff needs the day off) when other local mountains are blowing.  Overall though it's been good with pretty quick expansion on snowmaking terrain by Cat standards.

Crotched and Attitash both started a week late and blamed it on the weather. Terrain expansion has been a bit slow for both.  Attitash especially will have very limited terrain Xmas week. My main concern with Crotched now is how much effort they make at resurfacing after bad weather.  They have been less and less aggressive in that regard in recent years.

So, yeah. Happy for Mt. Snow that they are doing well.  Comments made here are mainly that a Peaks employee sees it's not all roses at their other areas and perhaps this feedback gets shared. 

Sent from my XT1565 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Smellytele (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> To those who are hating on Peaks Resorts you need to remember that it is still pre-christmas and even last year you guys were skiing until May at Wildcat! Spent Sunday skiing Crotched for the first time and it truly is a gem.. most worthwhile day-trip mountain in the Boston area if you ask me. Skis much bigger with a very low key crowd.



Not sure where you skied Sunday but your perception is different than mine. The top of the mountain off the rocket was a scraped off mess. Meteor was fine lower down on the edges as was galaxy. Only 2 ways down really.


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## skiur (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Mount Snow has been unbelievable this entire year. I will even go as far to say we have crowned a new "Beast of the East" now that West Lake is online and everyone has seen the product first hand. It was almost humorous to see Killington squirm to open to save face (i'm sorry if you need to use stairs it shouldn't count).
> 
> To those who are hating on Peaks Resorts you need to remember that it is still pre-christmas and even last year you guys were skiing until May at Wildcat! Spent Sunday skiing Crotched for the first time and it truly is a gem.. most worthwhile day-trip mountain in the Boston area if you ask me. Skis much bigger with a very low key crowd.



If you really think that Mt snow is now better than K then your smoking so me good shit.  For about a week Mt snow offered a better product.  Killington was also about to host a world cup race.  If they had Superstar and Skylark open they would have been offering a better product than Mt snow.  I'm not trying to knock Mt snow who did an incredible job with an unusual cold snap in November,  but mt snow is a small boring intermediate mountain that doesn't get very much snow.  Right now what Killington is offering is better than Mt snow 100% open.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 19, 2017)

skiur said:


> If you really think that Mt snow is now better than K then your smoking so me good shit.  For about a week Mt snow offered a better product.  Killington was also about to host a world cup race.  If they had Superstar and Skylark open they would have been offering a better product than Mt snow.  I'm not trying to knock Mt snow who did an incredible job with an unusual cold snap in November,  but mt snow is a small boring intermediate mountain that doesn't get very much snow.  Right now what Killington is offering is better than Mt snow 100% open.



And it is comments like this that will keep my trees empty and not skied off by 9am. It amazes me how much greater you people think K is. Its not that impressive and is surely trending in the downward direction. Yes you have the world cup, but remember that some nice hefty diesel generators in the parking lot come with it to prop up such a "great" snowmaking system. Also, please remind me the last time a new lift was installed?   

Coming from someone who has been to both extensively, it is obvious who's actually planning for the future. I dont see Killington representing themselves here/are willing to take the heat from time to time. Keep up the good work, people are noticing.


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## sull1102 (Dec 19, 2017)

Could not disagree with you more on a new Beast of the East. What would be more accurate is that the #2 spot has been pretty solidified by Snow this season. Both mountains are having great years. Snow started out of the gate hot and has kept it up, but Killington has certainly caught up to them. It's silly to say you think a place with two very successful World Cup events on two years with more to come is trending down (I dislike Powdr as much as everyone else). Then again I just realized you actually said if you need stairs it doesn't count LMAO see you June 1st on Superstar!

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 19, 2017)

sull1102 said:


> Could not disagree with you more on a new Beast of the East. What would be more accurate is that the #2 spot has been pretty solidified by Snow this season. Both mountains are having great years. Snow started out of the gate hot and has kept it up, but Killington has certainly caught up to them. It's silly to say you think a place with two very successful World Cup events on two years with more to come is trending down (I dislike Powdr as much as everyone else). Then again I just realized you actually said if you need stairs it doesn't count LMAO see you June 1st on Superstar!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app



Which is exactly why I do my late spring skiing at wildcat. June is for tuckermans, not skiing/hiking on muddy grass.... please


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## Newpylong (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> And it is comments like this that will keep my trees empty and not skied off by 9am. It amazes me how much greater you people think K is. Its not that impressive and is surely trending in the downward direction. Yes you have the world cup, but remember that some nice hefty diesel generators in the parking lot come with it to prop up such a "great" snowmaking system. Also, please remind me the last time a new lift was installed?
> 
> Coming from someone who has been to both extensively, it is obvious who's actually planning for the future. I dont see Killington representing themselves here/are willing to take the heat from time to time. Keep up the good work, people are noticing.



Killington has as much in house electric air as does Mount Snow - but they augment it with diesel during the World Cup and the usual December/Jan push. If Mount Snow had as much acreage as Killington they would have to: A line every trail with fan guns, or build another air house full of Centacs, or refill their old pad at the base like they used to with diesels.

Not knocking Mount Snow, but let's call a spade a spade here. Two different mountains with different requirements.


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## drjeff (Dec 19, 2017)

sull1102 said:


> Could not disagree with you more on a new Beast of the East. What would be more accurate is that the #2 spot has been pretty solidified by Snow this season. Both mountains are having great years. Snow started out of the gate hot and has kept it up, but Killington has certainly caught up to them. It's silly to say you think a place with two very successful World Cup events on two years with more to come is trending down (I dislike Powdr as much as everyone else). Then again I just realized you actually said if you need stairs it doesn't count LMAO see you June 1st on Superstar!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app


The reality is that K has a very powerful snowmaking system. K also has more of a reliance on mid and high e guns across their fleet than Mount Snow currently does. K flat out needs more air to run their system at full capacity than Mount Snow does. All of the K3000's and mid E ratnik's that comprise a bunch of K's system use more air per gun than the HKD Impulses that now make up the majority of Mount Snow's gun library (they have more HKD's than fan guns). 

K's diesel generators also at times give them the opportunity to make snow, in good conditions, when Mount Snow and their all electric compressors can't run because of restrictions placed on their consumption by Green Mtn Power.

Bottom line, both Mount Snow and K can now pump basically the same amount of water. The type of guns and how the operate are different. Which one is "better"? Who knows as they both have a bunch of strengths and a few weaknesses

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## sull1102 (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Which is exactly why I do my late spring skiing at wildcat. June is for tuckermans, not skiing/hiking on muddy grass.... please


You're kidding right? Wildcat's spring effort does not compare to Killington.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Jcb890 (Dec 19, 2017)

Why are you guys feeding the troll?


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## skiur (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> And it is comments like this that will keep my trees empty and not skied off by 9am. It amazes me how much greater you people think K is. Its not that impressive and is surely trending in the downward direction. Yes you have the world cup, but remember that some nice hefty diesel generators in the parking lot come with it to prop up such a "great" snowmaking system. Also, please remind me the last time a new lift was installed?
> 
> Coming from someone who has been to both extensively, it is obvious who's actually planning for the future. I dont see Killington representing themselves here/are willing to take the heat from time to time. Keep up the good work, people are noticing.



K doesn't post here, but commonly does on kzone where they get plenty of heat.  I have around 35 days at Mt snow.  It just isn't a big enough mountain.  It doesn't have enough terrain.  On a Saturday Mt snow is more crowded than k and doesn't have many places to go to avoid crowds.  The trees aren't skied off by 9 because there was never enough snow in there to start with. Mt snow is doing a great job with what they have but it is too far south, too flat, not enough elevation and doesn't get enough snow.


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## FBGM (Dec 19, 2017)

Peeps thinking mount flat is best in New England be sniffin glue in their Jersey cubicle. 

Mount Blow me has gallons to pump but still thin to win and puts out crap product. Get some talent in your mountain devision and learn to use yer new sprinkler system correct. Blowing money out those guns quicker then me at the booty club Saturday night with the boyz 

Squad out. Time to drink egg ngg and ski the snows x mas vaca


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## Jcb890 (Dec 19, 2017)

Well... this thread has gotten... awesome?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 19, 2017)

skiur said:


> K doesn't post here, but commonly does on kzone where they get plenty of heat.  I have around 35 days at Mt snow.  It just isn't a big enough mountain.  It doesn't have enough terrain.  On a Saturday Mt snow is more crowded than k and doesn't have many places to go to avoid crowds.  The trees aren't skied off by 9 because there was never enough snow in there to start with. Mt snow is doing a great job with what they have but it is too far south, too flat, not enough elevation and doesn't get enough snow.



Wow who knew that K was such a world class destination. Damn I must just not be able to handle such a high elevation..... Must be the thin oxygen. I'm glad Mount Snow isnt full of people who like to think they are skiing at Vail or Jackson Hole. Last time I checked we all experience the same ice covered and scrapped off surface that is New England Skiing.   

It just so happens that putting West Lake online has given the mountain the ability to recover from warming events and provide a great product from day 1. That alone has really put them on the map in comparison to the big guys, and trust me those guys are watching. Im not trying to troll but its hard not to when you guys are so quick to bash what there is to offer, but guess what... Snow has placed themselves in a position where they arent going anywhere for a long time.

Its the vibe that brings me back, when there are "powder days" (3 inches), I would rather not be in a sprinting race with everyone else to the first lift to ski the same runs until it has been scrapped clean. Maybe this is why places like Magic are so successful. 

And finally, Mount Snow has their own "kzone" but it is much different when you are willing to partake in a website like this for the whole of the New England skiing community to see. Something that many other resorts wouldn't even consider so thank you!


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## MountSnow (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Wow who knew that K was such a world class destination. Damn I must just not be able to handle such a high elevation..... Must be the thin oxygen. I'm glad Mount Snow isnt full of people who like to think they are skiing at Vail or Jackson Hole. Last time I checked we all experience the same ice covered and scrapped off surface that is New England Skiing.
> 
> It just so happens that putting West Lake online has given the mountain the ability to recover from warming events and provide a great product from day 1. That alone has really put them on the map in comparison to the big guys, and trust me those guys are watching. Im not trying to troll but its hard not to when you guys are so quick to bash what there is to offer, but guess what... Snow has placed themselves in a position where they arent going anywhere for a long time.
> 
> ...



:beer:


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 19, 2017)

I'm actually trying to decide right now if I'm going to Mount Snow or Killington tomorrow.

It's tough when you like both hills and each has it's advantages!

edit.. tomorrow looks icy, I'll wait


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 19, 2017)

MountSnow rep...

I am seeing recorded temps on your site of 33 degrees base / 23 degrees summit for today. I thought it was warmer, no?

I could use your intel as I don't mind semi-firm groomers but I would like to avoid an ice day. I would also like to go to Mount Snow tomorrow and as long as the surface is relatively consistent and North Face is skiable then I will not regret it.

If the snow turned to slush up there today and/or you got undesireable precip I would appreciate a heads up so I can postpone.


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## slatham (Dec 19, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> MountSnow rep...
> 
> I am seeing recorded temps on your site of 33 degrees base / 23 degrees summit for today. I thought it was warmer, no?
> 
> ...



Weatherunderground has a lot of local weather stations. They may have summit and base stations. I have access through another network and the summit hit 32 and the base hit 41, both right now at 5:50. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skiur (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Wow who knew that K was such a world class destination. Damn I must just not be able to handle such a high elevation..... Must be the thin oxygen. I'm glad Mount Snow isnt full of people who like to think they are skiing at Vail or Jackson Hole. Last time I checked we all experience the same ice covered and scrapped off surface that is New England Skiing.
> 
> It just so happens that putting West Lake online has given the mountain the ability to recover from warming events and provide a great product from day 1. That alone has really put them on the map in comparison to the big guys, and trust me those guys are watching. Im not trying to troll but its hard not to when you guys are so quick to bash what there is to offer, but guess what... Snow has placed themselves in a position where they arent going anywhere for a long time.
> 
> ...



Do u work for Mt snow? Mt snow employs trolls now,  your first and only 4 posts are from this thread, makes sense they can't bash other mountains when logged on as Mt snow.


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## skiur (Dec 19, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> MountSnow rep...
> 
> I am seeing recorded temps on your site of 33 degrees base / 23 degrees summit for today. I thought it was warmer, no?
> 
> ...



Every mountain in Vermont will be ice skating tomorrow.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 19, 2017)

skiur said:


> Do u work for Mt snow? Mt snow employs trolls now,  your first and only 4 posts are from this thread, makes sense they can't bash other mountains when logged on as Mt snow.



I do not work for mount snow iI can assure you that... I actually live on the cape. I just heard about this website recently from friends and obviously ski at mount snow primarily.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks for the tips... my knee is hurting tonight anyway, so a good day to pass.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 19, 2017)

skiur said:


> Do u work for Mt snow? Mt snow employs trolls now,  your first and only 4 posts are from this thread, makes sense they can't bash other mountains when logged on as Mt snow.


That's wrong of you to associate them, the Mount Snow rep(s) who are posting in this thread and on AZ have been great, this guy... not so much.


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## skimagic (Dec 19, 2017)

skiur said:


> Every mountain in Vermont will be ice skating tomorrow.



The radar is showing an ugly band of showers over Mt snow and Stratton right now,. Ugh. I hustled to get tomorrow off for nuttin.


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## drjeff (Dec 19, 2017)

My hunch is that those questioning the firepower of various mountains snowmaking systems will really see what they can do about a week from now as the Christmas vacation week crowds show up after what looks like potentially damp events this weekend through Christmas day over a good chunk of ski country....

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## skiur (Dec 19, 2017)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> I do not work for mount snow iI can assure you that... I actually live on the cape. I just heard about this website recently from friends and obviously ski at mount snow primarily.



Got it, your a 15 year old kid who's parents take him to Mt snow......


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## skiur (Dec 19, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> That's wrong of you to associate them, the Mount Snow rep(s) who are posting in this thread and on AZ have been great, this guy... not so much.



They quoted a thread where he was bashing K and gave a toast emoji, so they associated themselves with him.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 19, 2017)

skiur said:


> Got it, your a 15 year old kid who's parents take him to Mt snow......



Wow you guys really are rattled.....


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## Quietman (Dec 19, 2017)

And I thought that the feeding of the trolls would end with the start of the ski season.  I'm sadly disappointed.  

Who loves Mt Snow vs Killington?  You are sad strange little men to waste time on this debate!  Oh crap, now I am one too!

Ski the Crotch!!!


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 20, 2017)

> My Mountain is better than your Mountain!! :argue:


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2017)

Alright guys.  Let's get back on track here.  There are probably 473 threads in the forum history with discussions of favorite mountains.  You can have at it there. 

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## MountSnow (Dec 20, 2017)

I can assure you that he/she does not work for us. We gave him the :beer: emoji, because we liked what he had said. 

Also, I agree with Deadheadskier (nice name by the way, I'm normally the one that puts on The Dead over the entire base area music system!) Let's not make this tread about which mountain you like the best, because that is something that will never be solved on a forum. We started this tread to be able to answer your questions, respond to rumors you may have hears, and to give you all an inside line on activites and snowmaking on-hill. 

I'll also let you in on a little secret, we ski Killi from time to time...


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## skiur (Dec 20, 2017)

Welcome to the internet!


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## cdskier (Dec 20, 2017)

skiur said:


> Every mountain in Vermont will be ice skating tomorrow.



Can't speak for southern vt, but sugarbush was great today. Really far exceeded my expectations.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Jcb890 (Dec 20, 2017)

cdskier said:


> Can't speak for southern vt, but sugarbush was great today. Really far exceeded my expectations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Conditions should be good through Friday, but then Friday afternoon/evening it'll all switch to rain, then right back to below freezing on Saturday... that could be dangerous, but I hope not.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 20, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Conditions should be good through Friday, but then Friday afternoon/evening it'll all switch to rain, then right back to below freezing on Saturday... that could be dangerous, but I hope not.



Where? I think Sugarbush gets mostly snow out of this.

Southern VT gets a net equal effect through Christmas, although the cycle should create a nice base with a fluffy layer on top. The question is are we going to end up with dust on crust or something much better.

Northern VT and maybe anywhere Killington north gets a big win. Probably some ice pellets mixed in but overall I think we'll be a lot better off in a week than we are now. Even at Killington there should be enough snow before any mixed precip occurs that it's just going to lock in an awesome base for the New Year.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 20, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> Where? I think Sugarbush gets mostly snow out of this.
> 
> Southern VT gets a net equal effect through Christmas, although the cycle should create a nice base with a fluffy layer on top. The question is are we going to end up with dust on crust or something much better.
> 
> Northern VT and maybe anywhere Killington north gets a big win. Probably some ice pellets mixed in but overall I think we'll be a lot better off in a week than we are now. Even at Killington there should be enough snow before any mixed precip occurs that it's just going to lock in an awesome base for the New Year.


Agreed now that I look again.  Originally they were predicting much more rain across New England, but I guess temps are maybe staying lower than they originally predicted?


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## slatham (Dec 20, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Agreed now that I look again.  Originally they were predicting much more rain across New England, but I guess temps are maybe staying lower than they originally predicted?



Sorry guys but all current forecast models have 850mb temps (approx 5,000') above freezing Saturday afternoon. It might freeze or re-freeze in the lower levels if the cold air doesn't get scoured out but it ain't gonna be snow, all the way to the Canadian border.

Now the models can be wrong.

And for sure north of I90 it's a net gainer.


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## NYDB (Dec 21, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> I can assure you that he/she does not work for us. We gave him the :beer: emoji, because we liked what he had said.
> 
> Also, I agree with Deadheadskier (nice name by the way, I'm normally the one that puts on The Dead over the entire base area music system!) Let's not make this tread about which mountain you like the best, because that is something that will never be solved on a forum. We started this tread to be able to answer your questions, respond to rumors you may have hears, and to give you all an inside line on activites and snowmaking on-hill.
> 
> I'll also let you in on a little secret, we ski Killi from time to time...



Back when I worked for ASC I hit both mountains all the time since i lived in between. How can you not love the ol Beartrap bumps on a nice sunny march day?


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## chuckstah (Dec 22, 2017)

I have a couple of questions for Mt Snow.  As of this morning about 67% of terrain was listed as open including some natural terrain.  What % of your terrain is covered by snowmaking?  Also, are the woods and glade skiing areas included in the total acreage reported as open as some areas do?  I really like the early season effort and hope to get a lot more days in this season.


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## mbedle (Dec 22, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> I have a couple of questions for Mt Snow.  As of this morning about 67% of terrain was listed as open including some natural terrain.  What % of your terrain is covered by snowmaking?  Also, are the woods and glade skiing areas included in the total acreage reported as open as some areas do?  I really like the early season effort and hope to get a lot more days in this season.



Pretty sure the answer is 80% and no.


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## Newpylong (Dec 22, 2017)

70%


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## chuckstah (Dec 22, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> 70%


Thanks, that sounds close. I've been trying to figure out what else they could blow on to reach even 70%  

Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 22, 2017)

Good up there today. Skied Thanks Walt and Bear Trap completely untouched (1st runs) and it was cool seeing my arcs riding back up the Bear Trap chair. Good snow all day. Skied a couple woods... one on Carinthia which was good with caution. Olympic Woods was borderline and not recommended unless skiing bony woods is one of your specialties. You had to go light on the edges and stay alert for sure.

We'll see how the weather pans out, could be good once again for Christmas.


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2017)

That's the thing with the woods + natural trails now... While Mount Snow is closing in on 2 feet of natural the last 2 weeks, the initial 18" or so fell on basically bare ground and it was really light density snow... Then the wind blew it around, finally today and tonight, some semi dense to dense, good base snow is falling. Hopefully then with not too much liquid tomorrow afternoon, and then some light density snow on Christmas day, the naturals and trees will be good, with a base, and it will be Christmas week at if not 100% open than really close!!

And while I didn't ski today due to my 5:45PM arrival time, I will say that the log of Founder's Canadian Breakfast Stout aged with maple chips that they tapped up in the Station Taproom today, that I went over to the base lodge to enjoy post drive up, was PHENOMENAL!!

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## MountSnow (Dec 23, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> I have a couple of questions for Mt Snow.  As of this morning about 67% of terrain was listed as open including some natural terrain.  What % of your terrain is covered by snowmaking?  Also, are the woods and glade skiing areas included in the total acreage reported as open as some areas do?  I really like the early season effort and hope to get a lot more days in this season.



80% and yes, some of our gladed areas are reported as our acreage.


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## MountSnow (Dec 23, 2017)

Newpylong said:


> 70%



80%


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## chuckstah (Dec 23, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> 80% and yes, some of our gladed areas are reported as our acreage.


Thanks for the quick response. I'll be there Tuesday for a day before my pass is blacked out for a few days. Hopefully you can finish off the rest of the snow making trails in the upcoming cold spell.  The new system is impressive. 

Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## MountSnow (Dec 27, 2017)

chuckstah said:


> Thanks for the quick response. I'll be there Tuesday for a day before my pass is blacked out for a few days. Hopefully you can finish off the rest of the snow making trails in the upcoming cold spell.  The new system is impressive.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app



We've done it. We've made snow on all of our snowmaking terrain. Now we just going back and touching up a few spots like Bear Trap and Hop, as well as making some for the Super Pipe and Inferno Jumps builds which are going on now.


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## MountSnow (Dec 27, 2017)

Anyone else have any questions or rumors you'd like us to address?
That's why we're on here.


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## mbedle (Dec 27, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Anyone else have any questions or rumors you'd like us to address?
> That's why we're on here.



Not sure if you can answer, but with what you accomplished this year with the upgraded system, is the future plan to expand snowmaking to 100%?


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## MountSnow (Dec 27, 2017)

mbedle said:


> Not sure if you can answer, but with what you accomplished this year with the upgraded system, is the future plan to expand snowmaking to 100%?



That is in fact the plan. No firm timeline for 100%, but we hope to continue expansion work this summer. It's either that, or continue to drag hoses through the woods, but that get's old after awhile.


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## MountSnow (Dec 27, 2017)

mbedle said:


> Not sure if you can answer, but with what you accomplished this year with the upgraded system, is the future plan to expand snowmaking to 100%?



That is in fact the plan. No firm timeline for 100%, but we hope to continue expansion work this summer. It's either that, or continue to drag hoses through the woods, but that get's old after awhile.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> Anyone else have any questions or rumors you'd like us to address?
> That's why we're on here.



Can you give us a sample menu (both food and drink) from the new beer and small bites place in the main base lodge (I forgot what the name of it was on the new sign I saw this past Saturday in the base lodge as active finishing up work looked to be taking place inside....


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## ss20 (Dec 27, 2017)

If we want to get real crazy... I heard a rumor probably 5 years ago from a Mount Snow ambassador saying that "slackcountry" tree skiing would become a thing off of the Mount Snow/Haystack trail that would drop into the bottom of the Sunbrook bowl.  

Crazy story or some truth to the matter?  MS needs more good tree skiing.  Olympic trees are the only good length ones on the map and everything else (on and off map) is pretty short.


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## drjeff (Dec 27, 2017)

ss20 said:


> If we want to get real crazy... I heard a rumor probably 5 years ago from a Mount Snow ambassador saying that "slackcountry" tree skiing would become a thing off of the Mount Snow/Haystack trail that would drop into the bottom of the Sunbrook bowl.
> 
> Crazy story or some truth to the matter?  MS needs more good tree skiing.  Olympic trees are the only good length ones on the map and everything else (on and off map) is pretty short.



Marked, like the Trials out off Olympic, don't know if that would happen out by Sunbrook.  Unmarked, well that access has been there for years!!  The Ridge Trail (Not to be confused with the Ridge trail on the main face), which traverses the ridgeline between the Hermitage and Mount Snow is accessible not too far from the top of Big Dipper in Sunbrook to the skiers right.  Just make sure that you have your back country skills intact, and partners that do as well, and know where you're dropping in off the Ridge trail, as while there are some nice lines in there, there's also a bunch of lines where you WON'T end up back on lift served terrain as well...    Been there... hiked out of there as well.....


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## MountSnow (Dec 28, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Can you give us a sample menu (both food and drink) from the new beer and small bites place in the main base lodge (I forgot what the name of it was on the new sign I saw this past Saturday in the base lodge as active finishing up work looked to be taking place inside....



It's going to be called Canned, and will feature a variety of Vermont craft beers and ciders, as long as they come in cans. As for the food, it's is going to be a variety of gourmet pretzels.


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## MountSnow (Dec 28, 2017)

ss20 said:


> If we want to get real crazy... I heard a rumor probably 5 years ago from a Mount Snow ambassador saying that "slackcountry" tree skiing would become a thing off of the Mount Snow/Haystack trail that would drop into the bottom of the Sunbrook bowl.
> 
> Crazy story or some truth to the matter?  MS needs more good tree skiing.  Olympic trees are the only good length ones on the map and everything else (on and off map) is pretty short.



1. Don't belive every rumor you hear from our Ambassadors. 
2. That would be an interesting idea for sure. We'll see what happens down the line, but I know for a fact there's a pretty core group of people with touring setups that already ski in that area.


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## cdskier (Dec 28, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> That is in fact the plan. No firm timeline for 100%, but we hope to continue expansion work this summer. It's either that, or continue to drag hoses through the woods, but that get's old after awhile.



I'm not sure how I feel about 100% snowmaking coverage. Although I suppose the dynamics in S VT are a bit different than further north, so it might be more "necessary" in order to avoid perhaps having some trails rarely open. Personally I like having some "natural" trails that never see a snowgun. 70% snowmaking coverage is probably closer to my ideal, but again I'm looking at this more from the perspective of someone that skis most of the time in N VT where we typically see more natural snow.


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## Jully (Dec 28, 2017)

cdskier said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about 100% snowmaking coverage. Although I suppose the dynamics in S VT are a bit different than further north, so it might be more "necessary" in order to avoid perhaps having some trails rarely open. Personally I like having some "natural" trails that never see a snowgun. 70% snowmaking coverage is probably closer to my ideal, but again I'm looking at this more from the perspective of someone that skis most of the time in N VT where we typically see more natural snow.



I agree about the natural trails, but I think it is just so essential for more southern areas. Not sure about Mt. Snow, but in southern NH there are years where non-snowmaking trails are rarely open and only open in short bursts of time right after storms.  At Ragged last year, in a relatively good snow year, their natural trails/glades were super spotty.


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2017)

MountSnow said:


> It's going to be called Canned, and will feature a variety of Vermont craft beers and ciders, as long as they come in cans. As for the food, it's is going to be a variety of gourmet pretzels.



Thanks!! Are the cans meant for consumption solely within the confines of Canned, or will be be able to purchase them and take them home with us?  I'm guessing that purchasing and consuming in the general seating area of the main base lodge won't be allowed, just like one can't take a drink out of Cuzzin's or out of the Taproom now....


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2017)

cdskier said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about 100% snowmaking coverage. Although I suppose the dynamics in S VT are a bit different than further north, so it might be more "necessary" in order to avoid perhaps having some trails rarely open. Personally I like having some "natural" trails that never see a snowgun. 70% snowmaking coverage is probably closer to my ideal, but again I'm looking at this more from the perspective of someone that skis most of the time in N VT where we typically see more natural snow.



I am also a bit mixed on this. What I'm hoping is that for some of the more narrow, winding, "classical" New England style trails that they say make some snow early season just to put some base down, and then  basically let mother nature dictate what the snow surface is the rest of the season, short of an occasional groom in say post rain/freeze events where it appears that natural snowfall and/or a warm up isn't likely in the near future.....


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 28, 2017)

drjeff said:


> I am also a bit mixed on this. What I'm hoping is that for some of the more narrow, winding, "classical" New England style trails that they say make some snow early season just to put some base down, and then  basically let mother nature dictate what the snow surface is the rest of the season, short of an occasional groom in say post rain/freeze events where it appears that natural snowfall and/or a warm up isn't likely in the near future.....


Agreed.I dont why one would not want SM on those "natural" trails.I'd much rather have a snow base put down early season and let nature do its thing from there on than to have to wait for many feet of snow to build that base.Better than skiing through that natural and hitting rocks/grass imo.


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## Smellytele (Dec 28, 2017)

SIKSKIER said:


> Agreed.I dont why one would not want SM on those "natural" trails.I'd much rather have a snow base put down early season and let nature do its thing from there on than to have to wait for many feet of snow to build that base.Better than skiing through that natural and hitting rocks/grass imo.


To me it matters as what the base is. If it is grass then no snow making needed on those. If there is rock then snow making would be welcome


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## Jully (Dec 28, 2017)

drjeff said:


> I am also a bit mixed on this. What I'm hoping is that for some of the more narrow, winding, "classical" New England style trails that they say make some snow early season just to put some base down, and then  basically let mother nature dictate what the snow surface is the rest of the season, short of an occasional groom in say post rain/freeze events where it appears that natural snowfall and/or a warm up isn't likely in the near future.....



Ragged did this last year on Lower Crewcut. In past years it has been all natural (I believe), but they blew some decent sized whales on it and never touched it with a groomer. Skied great all season.

Wildcat did something similar for the first time last year as well. I think it is a good approach and assuming you blow when conditions are right, you never even have to touch it with a groomer.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 28, 2017)

Not the first time at Cat.  They did something similar on Black Cat before about 4-5 years ago.  Apparently it's been done on Starr Line before too, but not in the 11 years I've been skiing there.

I'd like to see them do this on Schuss.  Catenary and Cougar I'd like left alone.  Both have grass and do just fine as natural terrain

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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> To me it matters as what the base is. If it is grass then no snow making needed on those. If there is rock then snow making would be welcome



I kind of look at it this way, if they were to put down a bit of a base early in the season, even on a mainly grassy, non rocky trail, then chances are I'm also going to get an extra week or 2 (or more) of coverage on that trail in the Spring.... Not sure what the best approach to this is..... Skiing natural snow is great for sure, but sometimes it's a big plus to have some snowmaking in addition as well....


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## Smellytele (Dec 28, 2017)

drjeff said:


> I kind of look at it this way, if they were to put down a bit of a base early in the season, even on a mainly grassy, non rocky trail, then chances are I'm also going to get an extra week or 2 (or more) of coverage on that trail in the Spring.... Not sure what the best approach to this is..... Skiing natural snow is great for sure, but sometimes it's a big plus to have some snowmaking in addition as well....


My issue is that when man made compresses it seems to get firmer than natural.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 28, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> My issue is that when man made compresses it seems to get firmer than natural.


Agreed

Man-made often results in boiler plate.  I've never skied boilerplate natural snow.

Here's the question though.  Is boilerplate more often the result of man-made snow or repeated grooming?  Grooming all natural terrain is pretty rare in New England.  Last year Cat groomed Cheetah one time when the natural base got particularly deep and the surface stunk.  Other than that no natural terrain got groomed



I get what Jeff says about added season length, but on a certain percentage of terrain, I think it's okay to let mother nature take care of things.  

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## cdskier (Dec 28, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> Agreed
> 
> Man-made often results in boiler plate.  I've never skied boilerplate natural snow.
> 
> Here's the question though.  Is boilerplate more often the result of man-made snow or repeated grooming?  Grooming all natural terrain is pretty rare in New England.



I've been asking myself that same question (and I don't have an answer). Natural trails absolutely seem to not get quite as firm as the ones with snowmaking...but at Sugarbush where I have the most first-hand experience, pretty much all the natural trails rarely (if ever) see a groomer meanwhile the vast majority of snowmaking trails regularly see a groomer. So it is pretty difficult to really answer that question. I personally think both factors contribute to a firmer ski surface, but the man-made I would say contributes a bit more to it than the grooming. (Let's say 65% blame on man-made and 35% blame on grooming).


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## Rowsdower (Dec 28, 2017)

Natural after freeze thaw will get just as bulletproof if it melted out sufficiently. I've ridden natural cover dust on crust and the layer underneath is just as unforgiving as man-made boilerplate, I find.


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## slatham (Dec 29, 2017)

I think most areas have core trails that they groom, and because of that they need snowmaking, and they need "base building" snowmaking which is wetter and can withstand regular grooming. There are very few snowmaking trails that don't get groomed at least occasionally.

I too believe some trails should never get "base building snowmaking" as it ruins the character - many of the undulations are covered/filled and it's just a boring groomer (I could see Uncles or Jaws ruined in this way). I think that you can "augment" Mother Nature with dry, skiable man made (the kind of man made you would make in weather like we're having now), put down a little base and not ruin the old school nature of the trail.


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## MountSnow (Dec 29, 2017)

drjeff said:


> Thanks!! Are the cans meant for consumption solely within the confines of Canned, or will be be able to purchase them and take them home with us?  I'm guessing that purchasing and consuming in the general seating area of the main base lodge won't be allowed, just like one can't take a drink out of Cuzzin's or out of the Taproom now....



Actually, we're in the process of extending our license to the entire main base lodge, meaning that you'll be free to wander with your beverage.


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## Pez (Dec 30, 2017)

Looks like there might be a lift problem at mt snow today.  grand summit seems to be shut down and the line fore the blue bird is huge.


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## drjeff (Dec 30, 2017)

Pez said:


> Looks like there might be a lift problem at mt snow today.  grand summit seems to be shut down and the line fore the blue bird is huge.


Was running with some extended (1 to 2 minutes) stops the 2 times I rode it this morning.. my oldest kid said they closed it for a little while mid day, but it was back running per my youngest mid afternoon.

Definitely a holiday sized crowd in the main base area. Minimal lines elsewhere, even at Carinthia, when I was out from 8:30 until 11ish....

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## MountSnow (Dec 31, 2017)

Pez said:


> Looks like there might be a lift problem at mt snow today.  grand summit seems to be shut down and the line fore the blue bird is huge.



The problem was a malfunction of the braking system. Thankfully though our Lift Maintenance crew were able to repair it fairly quickly. Overall the cold is not a friend to mechanical systems, this weather tests the ability of hydraulics and electronics to function properly. We apologize for the inconvenience, not what we wanted on a busy day.


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## MountSnow (Jan 12, 2018)

Overheard in our snowplan meeting:
"This will be the biggest snowmaking resurface plan Mount Snow has ever seen in a 36-hour period, with 500 individual snowguns utilized."


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## cdskier (Jan 12, 2018)

That new system sure should come in handy this weekend!


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## MountSnow (Jan 12, 2018)

cdskier said:


> That new system sure should come in handy this weekend!



We're coming out of the gates swinging the second we get temps tonight. Looking to have 250 acres resurfaced and skiing great by Sunday. HERE WE GO!!!


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## WJenness (Jan 15, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We're coming out of the gates swinging the second we get temps tonight. Looking to have 250 acres resurfaced and skiing great by Sunday. HERE WE GO!!!



So how did the resurface go / how is it going?

What's the plan from here?


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## SIKSKIER (Jan 15, 2018)

Looks like not quite the acreage they had hoped for but I'm impressed none the less.As of today 200 acres resurfaced as of Monday.


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## MountSnow (Jan 15, 2018)

SIKSKIER said:


> Looks like not quite the acreage they had hoped for but I'm impressed none the less.As of today 200 acres resurfaced as of Monday.



Actually, we ended up doing 268 acres by the time we shut down this morning.


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## MountSnow (Jan 15, 2018)

WJenness said:


> So how did the resurface go / how is it going?
> 
> What's the plan from here?



Went well, we ended up using just over 400 guns to resurface 268 acres. Now we're going to let Ma Nature take over as we're predicted to get 5-8" out of this next storm.


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## MountSnow (Jan 19, 2018)

Anything you guys want to know? 
Go ahead and ask!


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 19, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Anything you guys want to know?
> Go ahead and ask!



Have you guys ever thought of having volunteer glade cutting days throughout the summer? I've noticed that some trees (the plunge) needs some love.. too many face-shot saplings


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## MountSnow (Jan 19, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Have you guys ever thought of having volunteer glade cutting days throughout the summer? I've noticed that some trees (the plunge) needs some love.. too many face-shot saplings



We actually have, we're working through the logistics of that idea currently. If it's a go, I'll be sure to announce them on here!


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## drjeff (Jan 19, 2018)

Snowmaking plans the rest of the season.... Strictly resurfacing when needed, or some planned extended spring base building runs on core trails when a favorable stretch/stretches of weather arrive?? 

Also any plans on putting that shiny new Pisten Bully 600 winch cat to use on the glacial surface that Ripcord currently is to get it back in play??

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## MountSnow (Jan 20, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Snowmaking plans the rest of the season.... Strictly resurfacing when needed, or some planned extended spring base building runs on core trails when a favorable stretch/stretches of weather arrive??
> 
> Also any plans on putting that shiny new Pisten Bully 600 winch cat to use on the glacial surface that Ripcord currently is to get it back in play??
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app



Our snowmaking plan changes from week to week depending on the weather and conditions, so I can't really give you any insight into that. 

As for using the winch cat on Ripcord, it's on the list, but it was out of commision for a little bit with a cable issue. Back in action now though. I'll put in a note with grooming that you'd like to see it groomed.


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## laxski (Jan 22, 2018)

Heading up tomorrow with 6 guys for our annual trip. Hopefully Mt Snow will fire up the Snowmaking system to do a major resurfacing similar to MLK weekend after this rainy system moves thru. I’ve been telling these guys that the mountain will be Skiing great in a day or 2???


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## laxski (Jan 24, 2018)

Cue the Crickets awfully quiet in here!!!!


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## chuckstah (Jan 24, 2018)

laxski said:


> Cue the Crickets awfully quiet in here!!!!


No snowmaking til the weekend and lots of lift holds according to today's report. Not worth the gas money for me today. Off to Crotched instead. 

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## skiur (Jan 24, 2018)

That's pretty weak with everything Mt snow was talking early season, how do you hype up your new snowmaking and not turn it on till the weekend after yesterday's rain?


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## NYDB (Jan 24, 2018)

skiur said:


> That's pretty weak with everything Mt snow was talking early season, how do you hype up your new snowmaking and not turn it on till the weekend after yesterday's rain?



more than pretty weak.  Very Weak!


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## machski (Jan 24, 2018)

skiur said:


> That's pretty weak with everything Mt snow was talking early season, how do you hype up your new snowmaking and not turn it on till the weekend after yesterday's rain?


My guess, it's called cash flow.

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## chuckstah (Jan 24, 2018)

And the temps look great for making snow today through Friday. Not so good for the weekend...

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## FBGM (Jan 24, 2018)

chuckstah said:


> No snowmaking til the weekend and lots of lift holds according to today's report. Not worth the gas money for me today. Off to Crotched instead.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app



No surprise. Garbage mountain getting run like garbage


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## MountSnow (Jan 24, 2018)

laxski said:


> Cue the Crickets awfully quiet in here!!!!



Sorry, we replied to your same question on our internal forum, so we thought it was covered. We're going to be firing up for a quick resurface on Friday using our fangun fleet. The plan is to give the mountain a quick resurface, but not go overboard because things are slated to warm up once again for the weekend. After that, we're going to take a look at the temps for next week and evaluate a major resurface. No sense in going full bore if it's just going to melt out again. We want to fire up as much as you do, but we'd rather it stick around if we're going to do things properly.


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## MountSnow (Jan 24, 2018)

chuckstah said:


> No snowmaking til the weekend and lots of lift holds according to today's report. Not worth the gas money for me today. Off to Crotched instead.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app



Yeah that wind has really be giving us what for. Try as we might, we can't control the wind! Have fun at Crotched. That's the beauty of the Peak Pass, you can go where you feel!


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## MountSnow (Jan 24, 2018)

chuckstah said:


> And the temps look great for making snow today through Friday. Not so good for the weekend...
> 
> Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app



The weekend snowmaking was a misprint by our snow reporter this morning. We're making snow on Friday, not this weekend. We wish we could make snow at 40 degrees...


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## MountSnow (Jan 24, 2018)

machski said:


> My guess, it's called cash flow.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



We'd just rather not do a massive resurface if it's going to melt this weekend. Once we see a good run of temps we'll be back out there hitting this place hard!


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## slatham (Jan 24, 2018)

First off anyone with a weather app could determine the "weekend snowmaking" quote was a mistake.

My 2c - does it make sense to pound the mountain with a major resurfacing for just Saturday, given the forecast for warm on Saturday and non-frozen on Sunday, and then cold weather the following week? No it doesn't. You touch up and groom for this weekend and look to when the pattern might shift to more sustainable cold and then you go major.

That said, you also need to be flexible. The forecast for the weekend is shifting colder, less non-frozen (none on some models) and maybe a little snow. So the worry about a weekend melt is declining.


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## MountSnow (Jan 24, 2018)

slatham said:


> First off anyone with a weather app could determine the "weekend snowmaking" quote was a mistake.
> 
> My 2c - does it make sense to pound the mountain with a major resurfacing for just Saturday, given the forecast for warm on Saturday and non-frozen on Sunday, and then cold weather the following week? No it doesn't. You touch up and groom for this weekend and look to when the pattern might shift to more sustainable cold and then you go major.
> 
> That said, you also need to be flexible. The forecast for the weekend is shifting colder, less non-frozen (none on some models) and maybe a little snow. So the worry about a weekend melt is declining.



Bingo! 
Saturday is still looking like low 40s though.


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## skiur (Jan 24, 2018)

Killington and okemo are making snow, even Bromley and magic are!


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## skifree (Jan 24, 2018)

maybe some of those hills need more resurfacing then others.


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## ss20 (Jan 24, 2018)

They probably blew through most of their snowmaking budget.  By doubling the # of guns you can run at once that's a lot more labor needed.  A lot more electricity to run more fan guns and bigger water pumps.  

Yeah it was a great November/December but I was kinda figuring they'd be the first to slow down their snowmaking pace.


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## Smellytele (Jan 24, 2018)

ss20 said:


> They probably blew through most of their snowmaking budget.  By doubling the # of guns you can run at once that's a lot more labor needed.  A lot more electricity to run more fan guns and bigger water pumps.
> 
> Yeah it was a great November/December but I was kinda figuring they'd be the first to slow down their snowmaking pace.



Peaks is blowing no where right now. Crotched said they would hopefully this afternoon. Lift Windholds are plaguing all NH peaks properties today.


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## skifree (Jan 24, 2018)

its January/its New England.  i'm going anyways and I will have fun.


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 24, 2018)

Why is one bubble yellow on the Bluebird Express?


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## sull1102 (Jan 24, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> Why is one bubble yellow on the Bluebird Express?


It's chair #50 for the 50th anniversary a few years ago. On other lifts #50 is usually painted gold for the same reason(only a Mt. Snow thing). 

The decision to not blow at all after the rain and temps yesterday is a rough one. It definitely pushed me to go elsewhere tomorrow. Even a few hours on the main runs just to freshen things up goes a long way. The snowmaking budget may be running low, but skier visits are through the roof! Crowds on weekends and even midweek have been noticeably larger hoping that leads to something like a detachable in Sunbrook. 

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## drjeff (Jan 24, 2018)

I'm skiing Mount Snow Friday and Sunday, and racer parenting at Stratton on Saturday.  

The Friday skiing at Mount Snow part of me wishes the guns we're going on today for sure. The logical, wanna be ski area GM and snowmaking geek side of me, also gets that a modern system today can do things quicker, especially with the GOOD temps we had during most of December, to put down adequate amounts of base to get most trails to the targeted end of the season dates in April, given most weather conditions, way quicker than ever....

I get both sides.  I wish that I'd have more trails covered with fresh whales and/or top dressed on Friday than I will though....

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## asnowmobiler (Jan 24, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> It's chair #50 for the 50th anniversary a few years ago. On other lifts #50 is usually painted gold for the same reason(only a Mt. Snow thing).



Thank You.


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## MountSnow (Jan 25, 2018)

If you look around the resort, every chair number 50 on the mountain is "gold." This was in celebration of our 50th birthday, and we actually had to go to great lenghts to find one "golden" bubble. Turns out getting them to make a one-off is not a thing, so we had to find another resort that had orded a full run of yellow bubbles and then have Poma make one more.


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## MountSnow (Jan 25, 2018)

Given how many of you have questioned our decisions regarding Mountain Operations choices we thought it best to see if we might be able to explain some of our thinking.

-	First off we’d like to address the following rumor, Mount Snow has not fully expended our Snowmaking Budget for the 2017-18 winter season. It should be clear that after the difficult snow year in 2015-16 that we are willing to go beyond our budget to provide the best possible product to our guests. That said, Mount Snow also has a responsibility as a company to operate as fiscally responsible as possible. And with 80+ days of the season still ahead of us, we need to make sure we are managing our expenses so we can continue to provide a great product for the remainder of the season.

-	Secondly, with weather, there are far more things to take into consideration than just temperature, wind for example is a major one. Firing up the system on a day like Tuesday or Wednesday with 45+mph winds would make more snow on the tops of trees than on the trail. It is hard to resurface in these conditions and be efficient. It can also be too cold to resurface. Why too cold? When temperatures drop to single digits or negatives, to keep guns from freezing up we would have to be pumping out a lot of water to each gun, more than for a typical resurface, this means more energy to keep the system operating and a lot of grooming to keep up. This means MOGULS everywhere! Resurface temps in the high teens and low 20’s allow Mount Snow to run a lot of guns on a lot of trails to get a quick resurface. Much of what we expect to accomplish on Friday. 

-	Midweek vs. weekend. This really is a question of when it’s best to make snow for all of our guests.  This week, making snow on Friday will help us provide a great product for skiers this weekend.  Next week, we’ll be making snow during the midweek, so midweek skiers may benefit. When evaluating when to make snow, we consider how well the trails will hold up and ski under the forecasted skier and rider traffic. 

Decisions are made with the best intel available at the time. The weather often changes and we have to live with decisions. There are a group of five or more in Mountain Operations looking at all the variables and getting together to offer opinions. We think we have some of the best in the business on this team, and we think we make good decisions most of the time.


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## skiur (Jan 25, 2018)

What is wrong with moguls?....too cold to blow snow, that's a funny one, maybe if it was -25 or colder but it didn't even get below 0. And blowing snow in the wind just makes the trees better!


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 25, 2018)

skiur said:


> And blowing snow in the wind just makes the trees better!



After witnessing Mt Snow's firepower first hand this season, I think the next step is turning Mount Snow into the world's first skiable snow globe.

With climate control and a full schedule of "weather" (it either dumps snow or Blue Bird(TM) on alternating days).


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## MountSnow (Jan 26, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> After witnessing Mt Snow's firepower first hand this season, I think the next step is turning Mount Snow into the world's first skiable snow globe.
> 
> With climate control and a full schedule of "weather" (it either dumps snow or Blue Bird(TM) on alternating days).



Now there's an idea. I wonder if the U.S Forrest Service will go for that?


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## slatham (Jan 26, 2018)

Pretty extensive snowmaking for a "Light" resurfacing. That said, if I were to be at Mt Snow this weekend I'd be disappointed that no trails on the North Face saw snowmaking this week.


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## drjeff (Jan 26, 2018)

The trails that they have just groomed, and not made snow on (major snowmaking effort started a bit after 8 this morning as I was driving in) are skiing quite well. Machine groomed snow on a firm base, easy to carve. The warming temps tomorrow should help soften things when the likely masses show up.. Solid crowd for a Friday today

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## Jully (Jan 26, 2018)

skiur said:


> And blowing snow in the wind just makes the trees better!



Lol. For you, me, and the 5% of Mt Snow skiers who ski the trees.


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## Jully (Jan 26, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Given how many of you have questioned our decisions regarding Mountain Operations choices we thought it best to see if we might be able to explain some of our thinking.
> 
> -	First off we’d like to address the following rumor, Mount Snow has not fully expended our Snowmaking Budget for the 2017-18 winter season. It should be clear that after the difficult snow year in 2015-16 that we are willing to go beyond our budget to provide the best possible product to our guests. That said, Mount Snow also has a responsibility as a company to operate as fiscally responsible as possible. And with 80+ days of the season still ahead of us, we need to make sure we are managing our expenses so we can continue to provide a great product for the remainder of the season.
> 
> ...



Love the in depth description and communication! Really makes a community like AZ that much better and makes Mt Snow look great as well.


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 26, 2018)

+1


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## sull1102 (Jan 26, 2018)

Came to say the same, love seeing this interaction with the community!


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## Smellytele (Jan 28, 2018)

Jully said:


> Love the in depth description and communication! Really makes a community like AZ that much better and makes Mt Snow look great as well.



Now if the rest of Peaks would follow suit.


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## Edd (Jan 28, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Now if the rest of Peaks would follow suit.



Interesting thought. This community likely has a higher percentage of Wildcat skiers than Mt Snow regulars.


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## Pez (Jan 28, 2018)

I'm at snow right now.  Main face major trails have a lot of ice.  Sunbrook is pretty good though.  Springlike.  Haven't been over to the north face yet.  


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 28, 2018)

Sonny was the best place on the mountain, the north side was a Glacier.
Surprisingly the ice was edgeable if you were willing to trust your edges.


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## Euler (Jan 29, 2018)

On Sunday (1/28) most trails at Mt. Snow (and many resorts, from what I've been reading) could charitably be described as primary surface of boilerplate interspersed with patches of blue and yellow ice.  I did find that Ridge and Snowdance had plenty of soft snow to have a great time with, though...just took some hunting and perseverance to find the right trails for the right time of day.  Crowds were TINY....no wait to board the Bluebird in a midwinter Sunday....not good for the mtns finances I'm sure.


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## Jcb890 (Jan 29, 2018)

Euler said:


> On Sunday (1/28) most trails at Mt. Snow (and many resorts, from what I've been reading) could charitably be described as primary surface of boilerplate interspersed with patches of blue and yellow ice.  I did find that Ridge and Snowdance had plenty of soft snow to have a great time with, though...just took some hunting and perseverance to find the right trails for the right time of day.  Crowds were TINY....no wait to board the Bluebird in a midwinter Sunday....not good for the mtns finances I'm sure.


The crowds sound like the opposite on Saturday.  Saturday was the busiest I've ever seen it... but my brother said last weekend was even busier.


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## Jcb890 (Jan 29, 2018)

Went to Mt. Snow Saturday for the first time in a few weeks... holy shit they've lost a lot of snow!  I imagine everywhere has, but wow.

The place was PACKED.  It was the first time I've been to Mt. Snow and actually felt like it was too crowded.  The Grand Summit and Bluebird both regularly had people lined up to the end of the ropes.  Two of the people operating the Bluebird line most of the day (_I won't name names or describe their looks as I do not want to throw workers under the bus_) were absolutely inept.  That seems to be a common theme when 1 of these people is there unfortunately... this is the 3rd time I have noticed it.  Seriously, how hard is it to count to 6?  And completely stopping the line to allow you to count to 6 each time... just awesome work.  That was painful.  But, thankfully it was nice enough to go over to the Grand Summit Express most of the time.

The couple of *"Slow Down!" Crews* over on Long John were annoying.  They actually told my wife to slow down on the flatter middle section (2nd set of SDC people) which was laughable since she does not ride fast and was not going fast at all.  I gave them a thumbs up as they yelled at me. 

The snow quality was fun due to the high temps.  Underneath was a mix of boilerplate and glacier.  We really need an extended period of cold weather and possible some real snow to help things out.


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## jmgard (Jan 29, 2018)

I was at Snow on Saturday as well, it was the busiest day I have ever skied there (my 3rd year having a Mt. Snow pass). Gave me some flashbacks to Loon pre-South Peak.  I'm glad I learned to ski as a kid by dodging traffic on Bear Claw and Grand Junction up there, otherwise I'd be so freaked out on a day that crowded. Great snow on Ridge and in Sunbrook but North Face was very scraped off.  One kid I was skiing with slid out on the last drop/left turn of Plummet and was stopped by a tree, luckily besides a beat-up hip he was okay.  I am a big fan of Mount Snow and it's effectively my "home mountain" these days but there's a reason I try to only ski there midweek. And never park at Main base unless I get there at like 7:30... Sundance wasn't bad at least.


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## Jcb890 (Jan 29, 2018)

jmgard said:


> I was at Snow on Saturday as well, it was the busiest day I have ever skied there (my 3rd year having a Mt. Snow pass). Gave me some flashbacks to Loon pre-South Peak.  I'm glad I learned to ski as a kid by dodging traffic on Bear Claw and Grand Junction up there, otherwise I'd be so freaked out on a day that crowded. Great snow on Ridge and in Sunbrook but North Face was very scraped off.  One kid I was skiing with slid out on the last drop/left turn of Plummet and was stopped by a tree, luckily besides a beat-up hip he was okay.  I am a big fan of Mount Snow and it's effectively my "home mountain" these days but there's a reason I try to only ski there midweek. And never park at Main base unless I get there at like 7:30... Sundance wasn't bad at least.


We got to Sundance a bit before 9 and got the last parking spot.

Agree to disagree about the snow on Sunbrook.  It was OK and edge-able, but very far from great.  Some decent snow on the right-hand side, but, again, not good or great.  Long John/Deer Run and Ridge did have good snow, so did NE Time and Snowdance.  Middle to lower section of Canyon was decent too.  The top of Canyon was all scraped off and icy.  Sunbrook was also crazy busy.  Down towards the bottom of Thanks Walt it was a shit-show.


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## jmgard (Jan 29, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> We got to Sundance a bit before 9 and got the last parking spot.
> 
> Agree to disagree about the snow on Sunbrook.  It was OK and edge-able, but very far from great.  Some decent snow on the right-hand side, but, again, not good or great.  Long John/Deer Run and Ridge did have good snow, so did NE Time and Snowdance.  Middle to lower section of Canyon was decent too.  The top of Canyon was all scraped off and icy.  Sunbrook was also crazy busy.  Down towards the bottom of Thanks Walt it was a shit-show.



I guess "great" would be a bit of an exaggeration for Sunbrook but compared to the ice sheets on North face it was definitely a bit better. Very busy towards the bottom though, I will agree with you on that.  Snow really needs to put snowmaking on the outer Sunbrook trails as that would help spread out the crowds a bit, especially if the HSQ there is coming soon. As it is now it would just dump tons of people onto Thanks Walt and Clound Nine on non-natural days.


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 30, 2018)

Are there any plans to update or bulldoze Snow Lake Lodge? We stayed there this weekend and couldn't believe how much of a dump it was, it was relatively clean but wow that place needs work..
Last time I stayed at the Gland Summit, I was calling this place the Grand Slummit.


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## drjeff (Jan 30, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> Are there any plans to update or bulldoze Snow Lake Lodge? We stayed there this weekend and couldn't believe how much of a dump it was, it was relatively clean but wow that place needs work..
> Last time I stayed at the Gland Summit, I was calling this place the Grand Slummit.




Replacement of the Snow Lake Lodge is in the master plan that the mountain is currently working through.  I believe that it's in the Phase 2 part of the original master plan, and if so, fundraising for that part has begun, with no real timetable yet as to when phase 2 may begin....


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 30, 2018)

Thanks for the reply.


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## machski (Jan 30, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Replacement of the Snow Lake Lodge is in the master plan that the mountain is currently working through.  I believe that it's in the Phase 2 part of the original master plan, and if so, fundraising for that part has begun, with no real timetable yet as to when phase 2 may begin....


Fundraising, that is a funny term.  I assume you mean soliciting for EB-5 investors.  Wouldn't call it fundraising though, unless Peaks has gone non-profit charity.

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## MountSnow (Jan 30, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> Are there any plans to update or bulldoze Snow Lake Lodge? We stayed there this weekend and couldn't believe how much of a dump it was, it was relatively clean but wow that place needs work..
> Last time I stayed at the Gland Summit, I was calling this place the Grand Slummit.



It's in the long term plan, but we don't have any short-term plans to do that. We agree that it's aged for sure, but this is part of the reason why we have rates so affordable there, as compared to The Grand Summit.


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## Jcb890 (Jan 30, 2018)

It seems funny to see the term "fundraising" used for investing money into the mountain or operations when it was as busy as it was on Saturday.  It makes me think of money being tight or something along those lines, but I guess it doesn't always take that definition.


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 30, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> It's in the long term plan, but we don't have any short-term plans to do that. We agree that it's aged for sure, but this is part of the reason why we have rates so affordable there, as compared to The Grand Summit.



I'm glad you included "as compared to Grand Summit" because $176 a night was a bit much for that place.
It's great that you are on this site, thanks for the fast reply.


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## njdiver85 (Jan 30, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> I'm glad you included "as compared to Grand Summit" because $176 a night was a bit much for that place.
> It's great that you are on this site, thanks for the fast reply.




Compared to other "on mountain" hotels, $176 is pretty reasonable.  It's unfortunate, but true.


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## ss20 (Jan 30, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> Compared to other "on mountain" hotels, $176 is pretty reasonable.  It's unfortunate, but true.



Yeah...it's a good deal midweek for $100 a night.  Walk to the hill.  Very nice breakfast spread.  Indoor and outdoor hot tubs.  Hard to think of another mountain with that kind of setup.  

Lodge at Mount Snow (across the street from the Snow Lake) is another good deal.  Better breakfast and nicer/larger rooms.


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## asnowmobiler (Jan 30, 2018)

It wasn't too disappointing, because of the reviews gave me a good idea what we were getting into. I just wanted something close to the slopes, but after using the Moover buses, I found I can stay anywhere and still have easy access to the mountain.
Those buses are great, they even have an app to track when the bus will show up. Are they run by the town or MS?


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## mbedle (Jan 30, 2018)

I believe the busses are run by Southern Vermont Transit.


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## MountSnow (Jan 30, 2018)

mbedle said:


> I believe the busses are run by Southern Vermont Transit.



That is correct! They are an amazing service for our valley to have. We wish more people knew about them and took advantage of it. Plus, busses make après waaaay better!


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## skifree (Jan 30, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> I'm glad you included "as compared to Grand Summit" because $176 a night was a bit much for that place.
> It's great that you are on this site, thanks for the fast reply.



I find it for a crash place to be fine. sss and breakfast. i'm not looking to buy the place.


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## skifree (Jan 30, 2018)

and I have never paid that much


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## mtsnow123 (Jan 30, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> That is correct! They are an amazing service for our valley to have. We wish more people knew about them and took advantage of it. Plus, busses make après waaaay better!



Did the name change away from Deerfield Valley Transit Authority (DVTA)? I must say, I have been going to Mount Snow on a monthly basis since October of 2004 and when the buses run during the ski season, life is good. Make breakfast, and once the bus passes the window: you have 15 minutes to be ready for the next bus. Good apres purposes too. Cuzzins until 4:45 PM and catch the 5 PM last call Moover back to the condo.


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## drjeff (Jan 30, 2018)

Love the Moover bus service!  Literally step out of my condo, walk 50ft, get on the Moover, drops me off right next to the Mount Snow Ski Club building in the base area, and then grab the 5PM (last bus run of the day for my condo complex) Moover home.

If my kids don't have an away race on a weekend, I literally park my car Friday night and don't start it up until Sunday afternoon, and never have to walk too far to get where I'm going!  One of the best, "decent sized" budget line items in my condo associations annual expenses for sure!


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## skifree (Jan 30, 2018)

Didn't no they charged associations. I have taken it from my friends house down by river valley market for booze fests and what not.
Just make sure you get on it heading north. Long trip the other way.


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## drjeff (Jan 30, 2018)

skifree said:


> Didn't no they charged associations. I have taken it from my friends house down by river valley market for booze fests and what not.
> Just make sure you get on it heading north. Long trip the other way.




Yup, the various condo associations that have Moover service are charged a fee by the DVTA.  The routes where it's along route 100 and down to Brattleboro are I believe all from federal and possibly state of VT funds.  Not sure if Mount Snow does or doesn't pay for their Moover use to shuttle people from the outer lots to the base area and/or in between the main base lodge, Sundance Lodge and Carinthia.


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## FBGM (Jan 31, 2018)

I'd rather drive the Hummer with the boyz drinking bud lights. Global warming for the wins.


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## Edd (Feb 7, 2018)

Excellent conditions yesterday after the snow. My wife loves the place and there was soft powder everywhere.  After the storm today it’ll be amazing.


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## Smellytele (Feb 7, 2018)

Edd said:


> Excellent conditions yesterday after the snow. My wife loves the place and there was soft powder everywhere.  After the storm today it’ll be amazing.


If it is soft yes if it is too heavy then no. skied mash potatoes there before and you can't keep up speed on the front face and grind to a halt.


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## Upper (Feb 7, 2018)

Question for Mount Snow? After Skiing at Okemo and Riding their Bubble Chair I was Impressed by how Clean and Prestine the Plexiglass was. (Yes I’m aware it is newer than Snows)I recently Skied at Mount Snow and rode the Bluebird the condition of the Plexiglass was deplorable, absolutely filthy Dirty, every chair was in the same shape. Question it is my understanding that the Bubble Chairs are removed every night and stored in the Barn why can’t the employees take time to wipe off the filth? Please take a little pride in your Product.


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## Edd (Feb 7, 2018)

Upper said:


> Question for Mount Snow? After Skiing at Okemo and Riding their Bubble Chair I was Impressed by how Clean and Prestine the Plexiglass was. (Yes I’m aware it is newer than Snows)I recently Skied at Mount Snow and rode the Bluebird the condition of the Plexiglass was deplorable, absolutely filthy Dirty, every chair was in the same shape. Question it is my understanding that the Bubble Chairs are removed every night and stored in the Barn why can’t the employees take time to wipe off the filth? Please take a little pride in your Product.



I’m not very familiar with So. VT, but I just skied both of these hills this week and this post seems like bullshit.


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## skifree (Feb 7, 2018)

unless its brutal out I always flip the bubble.
I would think over time they get beat up.
You seem to be trolling


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## GregoryIsaacs (Feb 7, 2018)

Upper said:


> Question for Mount Snow? After Skiing at Okemo and Riding their Bubble Chair I was Impressed by how Clean and Prestine the Plexiglass was. (Yes I’m aware it is newer than Snows)I recently Skied at Mount Snow and rode the Bluebird the condition of the Plexiglass was deplorable, absolutely filthy Dirty, every chair was in the same shape. Question it is my understanding that the Bubble Chairs are removed every night and stored in the Barn why can’t the employees take time to wipe off the filth? Please take a little pride in your Product.



hahah what a troll job........I guess we just ski harder than those at Okemo


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## skimagic (Feb 7, 2018)

skifree said:


> unless its brutal out I always flip the bubble.
> I would think over time they get beat up.
> You seem to be trolling



No, he's not trolling, it's the truth.  I've sat in there watching idiots scrape the bubble or spit their tobacco juice on it, or just sneeze.  It gets dirty, simple as that.  
I'm sure snow has a cleaning program.  People just don't care about other people's stuff or business' equipment.


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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2018)

What honestly happens some days, and I'm guessing that today is one of those days, is when any precipitation on the sheaves and sheave trains melts and/or drips, some of the lubricant on them drips down on the bubbles just like we see on the snow below a lift tower or our ski clothing we're wearing if it drips on us. 

Could/should they wipe down the outer surface of all 102 bubbles on the Bluebird either as they're put away at the end of the day or put out on the haul rope in the morning?? May not be a bad idea, would probably also add not an insignificant amount of time to the process....

As someone who literally rides the bluebird hundreds of times a season, do I occasionally notice what I'm suspecting the OP saw, which looks almost like bird poop on the outside of the bubble? Sure. Is it a deal breaker for me, vs what the bluebird gives me? Nope

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## sull1102 (Feb 7, 2018)

Upper said:


> Question for Mount Snow? After Skiing at Okemo and Riding their Bubble Chair I was Impressed by how Clean and Prestine the Plexiglass was. (Yes I’m aware it is newer than Snows)I recently Skied at Mount Snow and rode the Bluebird the condition of the Plexiglass was deplorable, absolutely filthy Dirty, every chair was in the same shape. Question it is my understanding that the Bubble Chairs are removed every night and stored in the Barn why can’t the employees take time to wipe off the filth? Please take a little pride in your Product.


This troll must have been at Stratton this morning because this is the exact type of thing I heard in the lift line, in addition to "oh my god I can't have anyone in the gondola with me that is wearing any cologne at all, I'll die!" Or "I need the window seat or I'll puke"... Mount Snow I'm oh so sorry for cheating on you today it will not happen again! Could not believe how snobby people were.

PS. Never have I been in the bluebird and thought jeez this thing is dirty, they're no worse than Okemo.

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## ss20 (Feb 7, 2018)

Plexiglass bubbles are not new...if they didn't get dirty resorts would keep them.  There was a first generation of bubbles on detachables in the late 80s (Vail, Whistler, Mont St. Anne).  They get dirty.  From my understanding, most resorts removed the bubbles after a number of years because they'd get filthy.

I'm sure Mount Snow will have to replace their bubbles 10 or 15 years down the line.  They aged nicely the first 5 or so years but the last couple seasons I've noticed a lot more spots, stains, and scratches.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 7, 2018)

Well, today didn't suck!

Question for Mount Snow:
Has Cut Off been open yet this season?  It was closed once again today, how come?

I may know a person who went down it today... who said it was fantastic, had plenty of base and thought it could have been open.


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## MountSnow (Feb 7, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Well, today didn't suck!
> 
> Question for Mount Snow:
> Has Cut Off been open yet this season?  It was closed once again today, how come?
> ...



I don't actually know why it was closed today, but I'll check with patrol on that one. Probably just an oversight. It has been open this season, as we spent a chunk of time with 100% of our trials open. 

As for that unnamed person...please remind them to stay out of closed areas in the future!


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## Jcb890 (Feb 7, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> I don't actually know why it was closed today, but I'll check with patrol on that one. Probably just an oversight. It has been open this season, as we spent a chunk of time with 100% of our trials open.
> 
> As for that unnamed person...please remind them to stay out of closed areas in the future!


I didn't see much closed either and it was a great day!

One more question - is Sundance always closed mid-week?


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## MountSnow (Feb 7, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I didn't see much closed either and it was a great day!
> 
> One more question - is Sundance always closed mid-week?



It really was a great day today. 

As to Sundance, we only use that lodge during weekends and holidays.


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Well, today didn't suck!
> 
> Question for Mount Snow:
> Has Cut Off been open yet this season?  It was closed once again today, how come?
> ...


One thing about Cut off that I've noticed at times this year when mother nature HASN'T been as generous with natural snow, is that with the remnants of the blasting of the rock ledge from Long John last summer spread out along there, there's a lot more jagged, decent sized (6-24") pieces of rock at the surface at the entrance to Cut Off than used to be there. That may be a part of why it was ropes up???

Apparently over this coming summer as they're finishing up final grading around the new Carinthia lodge and working on re-establishing the parking lots there, a good amount of those blasting remnant rock that is making up the surface of Long John on the flats between Ridge and Cut Off will be used, and Long John will end up a bit wider than this season, regraded a bit, and maybe seeded in at the surface as opposed to the rocks that it is now... Maybe the entrance to Cut Off will be worked on as well as not only is there the rocks there now, but also the snowmaking pipe for Long John as well

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## Jcb890 (Feb 8, 2018)

drjeff said:


> One thing about Cut off that I've noticed at times this year when mother nature HASN'T been as generous with natural snow, is that with the remnants of the blasting of the rock ledge from Long John last summer spread out along there, there's a lot more jagged, decent sized (6-24") pieces of rock at the surface at the entrance to Cut Off than used to be there. That may be a part of why it was ropes up???
> 
> Apparently over this coming summer as they're finishing up final grading around the new Carinthia lodge and working on re-establishing the parking lots there, a good amount of those blasting remnant rock that is making up the surface of Long John on the flats between Ridge and Cut Off will be used, and Long John will end up a bit wider than this season, regraded a bit, and maybe seeded in at the surface as opposed to the rocks that it is now... Maybe the entrance to Cut Off will be worked on as well as not only is there the rocks there now, but also the snowmaking pipe for Long John as well
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app


Good insight and info drjeff.

I have noticed the large amount of rocks at the top of Cut Off also.  Yesterday was the first time this season I think I have seen them all covered.  What do you mean by "seeded in at the surface"?  As in turning it into dirt with grass on top as opposed to just rocks?


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Good insight and info drjeff.
> 
> I have noticed the large amount of rocks at the top of Cut Off also.  Yesterday was the first time this season I think I have seen them all covered.  What do you mean by "seeded in at the surface"?  As in turning it into dirt with grass on top as opposed to just rocks?



Yup, a bit of dirt, some grass seed and some hay to help fill in the nooks and crannies between the rocks. Definitely helps on a natural snow (for now at least) trail!!


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## Jcb890 (Feb 8, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Yup, a bit of dirt, some grass seed and some hay to help fill in the nooks and crannies between the rocks. Definitely helps on a natural snow (for now at least) trail!!


That makes lots of sense and I believe that is how the top of Cut Off was.  Perhaps that is part of the issue they have.  If Long John truly is all rocks currently and not filled in as you say, that seems like a waste of snowmaking effort on a trail where you know it needs to be covered well.


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> That makes lots of sense and I believe that is how the top of Cut Off was.  Perhaps that is part of the issue they have.  If Long John truly is all rocks currently and not filled in as you say, that seems like a waste of snowmaking effort on a trail where you know it needs to be covered well.




Originally, Long John was supposed to be blasted and widened THIS coming summer with the blast remnant rock trucked down to the new Carinthia lodge are and final smoothing and grading of Long John done prior to the start of the '18-'19 season. Apparently they had the $$, as well as the time and the proper personal for blasting were available last summer, so they did that part a season earlier than they were planning, with the knowledge that they'd have to put a bit more snow on Long John this year and then handle the moving of the rock from Long John down to Carinthia next summer to get to the planned end result. 

In my mind, I've often thought that towards the end of a snowmaking run on Long John, it wouldn't be a bad thing if they turned one of the guns near the top of Cut Off and pointed it there to put a bit of manmade down over the entrance, or atleast have a cat push a bit of a whale over there. The entrance is often the melt out point that prevents what's usually decent and holds snow well down lower


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## Jcb890 (Feb 8, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Originally, Long John was supposed to be blasted and widened THIS coming summer with the blast remnant rock trucked down to the new Carinthia lodge are and final smoothing and grading of Long John done prior to the start of the '18-'19 season. Apparently they had the $$, as well as the time and the proper personal for blasting were available last summer, so they did that part a season earlier than they were planning, with the knowledge that they'd have to put a bit more snow on Long John this year and then handle the moving of the rock from Long John down to Carinthia next summer to get to the planned end result.
> 
> In my mind, I've often thought that towards the end of a snowmaking run on Long John, it wouldn't be a bad thing if they turned one of the guns near the top of Cut Off and pointed it there to put a bit of manmade down over the entrance, or atleast have a cat push a bit of a whale over there. The entrance is often the melt out point that prevents what's usually decent and holds snow well down lower


Ahhh, very interesting.
I personally love that little drop there at the beginning of the trail... you can either take it nice and mellow or go a few feet further down and take a steeper drop or launch into it.  The rest of the trail always seems to hold snow well.


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## MountSnow (Feb 9, 2018)

Since this thread is chocked full of snowmaking enthusists, we figured you'd all like this great video that HKD just put out about the West Lake Project.

https://vimeo.com/254324041


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## slatham (Feb 9, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Since this thread is chocked full of snowmaking enthusists, we figured you'd all like this great video that HKD just put out about the West Lake Project.
> 
> https://vimeo.com/254324041



Wow


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## mtsnow123 (Feb 10, 2018)

I ended up watching about a dozen of the HKD videos. Very cool industry and making equipment that lasts through the worst of weather.


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## cdskier (Feb 12, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Since this thread is chocked full of snowmaking enthusists, we figured you'd all like this great video that HKD just put out about the West Lake Project.
> 
> https://vimeo.com/254324041



Very impressive.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 13, 2018)

Lift lines were absolutely brutal on Saturday AM to early/mid-PM without the GSE running.


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## mtsnow123 (Feb 20, 2018)

Rode Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Went from pure ice Saturday, to a good layer of powder Sunday, to spring powder yesterday. On Sunday I was riding some natural snow trails, such as Pat's Pitch. It was very fun, but very sketchy in some locations. I had to ollie over some exposed rocks, but lots of powder going into Charlie's Chase. I rode Ripcord yesterday after scoping it from the turn on River's Run. Huge section of yellow/gray ice in the middle. I decided to go skier's right and ended up riding a good 50-70 section of pure ice, just great acceleration. Seems that skier's left was the better call. 

Let's hope for an end to this blowtorch and snowfall can get into the picture.


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## Glenn (Feb 20, 2018)

Any plans to resurface after this stretch of horrific weather?


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## MountSnow (Feb 20, 2018)

Most likely, unless Ma Nature finishes out this temperature tantrum with a bunch of natural snowfall. Too early to tell right now though with the 3,5,7 and 10 day forcasts.


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## Jully (Feb 20, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Most likely, unless Ma Nature finishes out this temperature tantrum with a bunch of natural snowfall. Too early to tell right now though with the 3,5,7 and 10 day forcasts.



Some nice low temps at night heading into the weekend. Assuming you would try and get some trails resurfaced by the weekend specifically?


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## Smellytele (Feb 20, 2018)

Jully said:


> Some nice low temps at night heading into the weekend. Assuming you would try and get some trails resurfaced by the weekend specifically?



Friday night -Saturday early morning isn't looking great at this point.


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## Smellytele (Feb 20, 2018)

Nor is Sunday - Sunday night


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## MountSnow (Feb 21, 2018)

Jully said:


> Some nice low temps at night heading into the weekend. Assuming you would try and get some trails resurfaced by the weekend specifically?



We've got a limited snowmaking window starting Thursday afternoon through Thursday night, and we're going to go for it. The plan is to go for a fan gun resurface and rebuild heading into the weekend on the following trails: Cascade, Canyon, Long John, Snowdance, N.E. Time, Ridge, Nitro, Launch Pad, Lower Exhibition, The Base Area, and Tubing. The thought is to put the greatest hits back together, while at the same time balancing our production with the fact that we don't yet know what this weekend will hold. Will we get snow, a wintery mix, the dreaded R word? Only time will tell, but we don't want to hammer it hard if it's just going to melt into the brook the next day.*

Once we get a better run of temps, we'll evaluate a more comprehensive snowmaking program, but this should help us offer a better product for the coming weekend.*


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## Jully (Feb 21, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We've got a limited snowmaking window starting Thursday afternoon through Thursday night, and we're going to go for it. The plan is to go for a fan gun resurface and rebuild heading into the weekend on the following trails: Cascade, Canyon, Long John, Snowdance, N.E. Time, Ridge, Nitro, Launch Pad, Lower Exhibition, The Base Area, and Tubing. The thought is to put the greatest hits back together, while at the same time balancing our production with the fact that we don't yet know what this weekend will hold. Will we get snow, a wintery mix, the dreaded R word? Only time will tell, but we don't want to hammer it hard if it's just going to melt into the brook the next day.*
> 
> Once we get a better run of temps, we'll evaluate a more comprehensive snowmaking program, but this should help us offer a better product for the coming weekend.*



Awesome. Thanks for the info and response!


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## sull1102 (Feb 21, 2018)

Great to see you guys pushing it!!! Love it

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## MountSnow (Feb 22, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Great to see you guys pushing it!!! Love it
> 
> Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app



It's one of the nice things about having over 930 fixed position snowguns and fan guns. It makes it much easier for us to be able to fire up in these limited windows. This is especially true on a day like today when we are running fan guns only, as it means all we have to do is run water uphill, rather than water and air.


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## skiur (Feb 22, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> It's one of the nice things about having over 930 fixed position snowguns and fan guns. It makes it much easier for us to be able to fire up in these limited windows. This is especially true on a day like today when we are running fan guns only, as it means all we have to do is run water uphill, rather than water and air.



This I see as a major advantage, I love how u guys have the fixed fan guns all over.  How much labor u must save too, do you just have to turn the fans on? Can 1 person basically take care of the whole run?


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## MountSnow (Feb 22, 2018)

skiur said:


> This I see as a major advantage, I love how u guys have the fixed fan guns all over.  How much labor u must save too, do you just have to turn the fans on? Can 1 person basically take care of the whole run?



It really depends on the conditions, but as I type this we currently have one guy liting up the fan guns on Snowdance by himself.


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## slatham (Feb 25, 2018)

No commentary on the Blue Bird going down? I hope it is back in action quickly. Luckily a plethora of other lifts......


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## drjeff (Feb 25, 2018)

slatham said:


> No commentary on the Blue Bird going down? I hope it is back in action quickly. Luckily a plethora of other lifts......


Up on their main webpage blog....

http://www.mountsnow.com/bluebird-updates

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## MountSnow (Feb 25, 2018)

slatham said:


> No commentary on the Blue Bird going down? I hope it is back in action quickly. Luckily a plethora of other lifts......



We posted it on our internal forum, our blog, and our social accounts. We figured that had it coverered. Didn't mean to leave you all out. 

We'll be running all updates through our blog and will be updating as we have additional information. http://www.mountsnow.com/bluebird-updates


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## cdskier (Feb 25, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We'll be running all updates through our blog and will be updating as we have additional information. http://www.mountsnow.com/bluebird-updates



That's pretty impressive transparency and always refreshing to see resorts share so many details like that. The photos of the damage are impressive as well.


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## catskillman (Feb 25, 2018)

cdskier said:


> That's pretty impressive transparency and always refreshing to see resorts share so many details like that. The photos of the damage are impressive as well.



amazing..... while Hunter sent out a memo to "some" of their passholders.  I did not get it, but have read it.  We do not really care about their excuse - just fix it.  we paid for X so delever X.  There was not even a coupon for a free cookie on the email I saw............


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## Glenn (Feb 26, 2018)

Awesome job on keeping everyone updated. Not only with a status, but details and pictures. Great job by lifts ops as well.


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## MountSnow (Feb 26, 2018)

Glenn said:


> Awesome job on keeping everyone updated. Not only with a status, but details and pictures. Great job by lifts ops as well.



Thanks! Our lift ops and lift mechanics have been really doing an amazing job throuhout this whole process. We'll continue to update the blog as we have details and photos to share.


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## slatham (Feb 26, 2018)

Great updates, thx. Hope all goes well and it's running for the weekend.


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## MountSnow (Feb 27, 2018)

slatham said:


> Great updates, thx. Hope all goes well and it's running for the weekend.



That's the plan. Hoping to have it in time for the snow!


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## caribchakita (Feb 28, 2018)

Thinking a Mt. Snow blast up and back, Sunday. Parking tips again please, to avoid the crowds? Lifts to avoid? Will arrive 7:30 AM and leave 2 PM. Have 55.00 passes available to me.

We went to MS last April and HATED it. We left calling it Mt. Blow due to super aggressive skiers/boarders and hoards of people. The lunch area was a pig pen. Folks couldn't even clean up after themselves.


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## jmgard (Feb 28, 2018)

Park at Sundance, ride Grand Summit instead of Bluebird, and don't go to Carinthia unless you really feel the need.  (They do an awesome job with the parks there but they (especially Nitro) get absolutely overrun with kids and teenagers on weekends and I have come close to landing on people a few times as they cluelessly cut across jump landings or cut in front of me at the last second to jump off the kicker for a feature I was gonna hit).  Avoid Long John and Cascade except where you absolutely have to take them to get to something.  I won't disagree with you on crowds there though-- Mt. Snow is to CT what Loon is to MA: the closest "real" mountain to a major metro so it's a huge draw for the masses.  IMO Grand Junction at Loon is worse than anything at Mount Snow, but not by a huge margin.  The summit does get super clogged because there is effectively a high speed 10pack unloading there so I would suggest knowing exactly where you're going before you get off.  There are some very enjoyable runs on the North Face (Plummet, Jaws, Trials when they're open) and Sunbrook is a good spot to avoid lines if you can deal with the long and sometimes cold lift. (I hear rumor of an HSQ there soonish though, who knows...) Spring bumps on Beartrap are fun too. Tony's in the main lodge is my preferred spot for lunch, it's a decent deal by ski-food pricing standards and surprisingly good pizza.


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## ss20 (Feb 28, 2018)

Agree with jmgard ^^^ on pretty much everything.  If you're getting there at 7:30am you might as well go to the Main Base lodge so you don't have to ride Tumbleweed or Seasons out of Sundance.  You'll get good parking at 7:30am, no worries.  Hit whatever you want to hit on the Main Face from 8am-9am and don't even try to go back after that.  North Face and Sunbrook will be good choices.  Maybe ride the Sundance lift on the Main Face if it's running.  

Hopefully they get a lot of snow Thursday-Saturday.  Get some of the natural trails open.


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## skiur (Feb 28, 2018)

caribchakita said:


> Thinking a Mt. Snow blast up and back, Sunday. Parking tips again please, to avoid the crowds? Lifts to avoid? Will arrive 7:30 AM and leave 2 PM. Have 55.00 passes available to me.
> 
> We went to MS last April and HATED it. We left calling it Mt. Blow due to super aggressive skiers/boarders and hoards of people. The lunch area was a pig pen. Folks couldn't even clean up after themselves.



It's going to be crowded on a weekend, but Sunday should be better than Saturday so you have that going for you, at 730 am parking shouldn't be an issue,  crowds don't really show up until after 9.  Get as many runs in as you can early at the peak and when crowds start showing up head to the north peak.


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## skifree (Feb 28, 2018)

park at sundance. pack a lunch/beer. car will be easy walking distance.


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## njdiver85 (Feb 28, 2018)

To avoid crowds:

1. Ski mainface first taking base lifts (Bubble & Grand Summit Express)
2. When base lifts get crowded: take Canyon chair to River Run and get over to Northface area
3. Once done with Northface area, enter Sundance area from top of Northface lift exit
4. Once done with Sundance area, take Bear Trap lift out and get over to Carinthia area
5.  Once done with Carinthia area, head back to mainface which should be quieter by 2:00

Avoids getting stuck with long wait at main base area during busy periods.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 28, 2018)

The Main Face is also usually a bit less busy when the majority of the crowds are in for lunch between maybe 11:30-12:30 or so.

We might be heading up to Mt. Snow this weekend ourselves, not sure when yet.  Trying to see what is going to happen with this storm.


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## gmcunni (Feb 28, 2018)

hopefully the bluebird is fixed for the weekend otherwise the other typically less crowded lifts won't be less crowded.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 28, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> hopefully the bluebird is fixed for the weekend otherwise the other typically less crowded lifts won't be less crowded.


Yesterday's update says they are planning for Friday and with some luck it could be done Thursday.


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## gmcunni (Feb 28, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Yesterday's update says they are planning for Friday and with some luck it could be done Thursday.



yup, hope that plan works out.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Feb 28, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> hopefully the bluebird is fixed for the weekend otherwise the other typically less crowded lifts won't be less crowded.



Thats when you substitute the GSE for Ego Alley..... never has a line and you can still huff it to northface from the top if need be.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 28, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> yup, hope that plan works out.


Same.  If it isn't up and running, I'll probably re-think plans on where to go.



GregoryIsaacs said:


> Thats when you substitute the GSE for Ego Alley..... never has a line and you can still huff it to northface from the top if need be.


I feel like I hardly ever see Ego Alley running.  That traverse would suck, especially on a board.


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## ss20 (Feb 28, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Same.  If it isn't up and running, I'll probably re-think plans on where to go.
> 
> 
> I feel like I hardly ever see Ego Alley running.  That traverse would suck, especially on a board.



it's uphill more than a traverse...certainly a workout on skis.  Had to do it a couple times on a day when all the detach lifts were down for icing


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## Jcb890 (Feb 28, 2018)

ss20 said:


> it's uphill more than a traverse...certainly a workout on skis.  Had to do it a couple times on a day when all the detach lifts were down for icing


I was trying to picture it in my head and can see the "traverse" in my mind from the Bluebird.  I figured it was close to flat or nearly uphill.  In that case, I'll pass on making that move.

Hopefully they'll get the Bluebird up and running.


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## drjeff (Feb 28, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I was trying to picture it in my head and can see the "traverse" in my mind from the Bluebird.  I figured it was close to flat or nearly uphill.  In that case, I'll pass on making that move.
> 
> Hopefully they'll get the Bluebird up and running.



On my GPS during a hike a few summers ago, it was an 11 foot elevation gain from the top of Ego, across Link, past the top of the Canyon Express and over towards start of River Run.  That was in the summer, without any snow on the trails....


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## Jcb890 (Feb 28, 2018)

drjeff said:


> On my GPS during a hike a few summers ago, it was an 11 foot elevation gain from the top of Ego, across Link, past the top of the Canyon Express and over towards start of River Run.  That was in the summer, without any snow on the trails....


How does that compare to the elevation gain from the North Face back up to the peak or the North Face over to Thanks Walt?  Any idea?  I'm just curious.


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## drjeff (Feb 28, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> How does that compare to the elevation gain from the North Face back up to the peak or the North Face over to Thanks Walt?  Any idea?  I'm just curious.



About twice the gain from the Outpost Triple (the one closest to Sunbrook on the Northface) over to either the summit lodge or the top of Sunbrook.  It's also spread over a greater distance (the hike from the top of Ego over to River Run) than the hike from the top of the Northface


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## Jcb890 (Feb 28, 2018)

drjeff said:


> About twice the gain from the Outpost Triple (the one closest to Sunbrook on the Northface) over to either the summit lodge or the top of Sunbrook.  It's also spread over a greater distance (the hike from the top of Ego over to River Run) than the hike from the top of the Northface


Interesting, thanks!  That isn't too terrible of a skate/hike from Sunbrook or North Face up to the Summit/Long John.


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## MountSnow (Mar 1, 2018)

The Bluebird is BACK! 





Details at www.mountsnow.com/bluebird-updates


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## asnowmobiler (Mar 1, 2018)

Thanks for sharing, it's very cool to see the behind the scenes operations.


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## urungus (Mar 1, 2018)

Great news!  Really appreciate the behind the scenes updates on all the hard work being done.  Suspect it prevents a lot of grumbling/complaining.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 1, 2018)

Great news!
Other mountains should take notice of how this was handled.


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## Pez (Mar 1, 2018)

+1


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## cdskier (Mar 1, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Great news!
> Other mountains should take notice of how this was handled.



Mount Snow could start offering seminars for other resorts on the right way to communicate with their guests about problems!

Awesome to see not only a blog and photos, but now also a video of some of the work being done!


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## Glenn (Mar 1, 2018)

Awesome! Really neat to see the behind the scenes stuff that goes on. Way to take a tough situation and make it a positive.


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## gmcunni (Mar 1, 2018)

Let's hope the incoming storm delivers as well as the Mt Snow maintenance crew did


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 2, 2018)

Its not back today though.On hold.


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## drjeff (Mar 2, 2018)

SIKSKIER said:


> Its not back today though.On hold.



From my wife, who's up at Mount Snow with our daughter this morning.... Back deck assessment, and elevation wise, our condo is roughly 250 feet above the Mount Snow base area....  30 degrees, 3-4" of thick snow down, snowing heavy, winds are gusting big - with peak gusts on our weather station in the last 24hrs of 36mph...

As she put it to me, based on years of experience up there in similar weather conditions.... She's not expecting getting much higher up than the top of Ego Alley via lift access today, and doubts she'll be riding any highspeed lifts or making turns on the Northface or Sunbroook.....  That's her opinion, we'll see what Jamie chimes in with from the official mountain perspective I'm sure!


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## rocks860 (Mar 2, 2018)

Gonna head to mount snow tomorrow, haven’t been there in probably 20 years


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## MountSnow (Mar 2, 2018)

drjeff said:


> From my wife, who's up at Mount Snow with our daughter this morning.... Back deck assessment, and elevation wise, our condo is roughly 250 feet above the Mount Snow base area....  30 degrees, 3-4" of thick snow down, snowing heavy, winds are gusting big - with peak gusts on our weather station in the last 24hrs of 36mph...
> 
> As she put it to me, based on years of experience up there in similar weather conditions.... She's not expecting getting much higher up than the top of Ego Alley via lift access today, and doubts she'll be riding any highspeed lifts or making turns on the Northface or Sunbroook.....  That's her opinion, we'll see what Jamie chimes in with from the official mountain perspective I'm sure!



Pretty sporty conditions with the wind today. We're seeing gusts closer to 50mph up there right now. Fun fact, that summit station isn't actually as accurate as our anemometers on The Bluebird, as it's a bit sheltered. Right now we have access 2/3 of the way up via Canyon and Nitro, and hope to get more open if possible with the winds. 

As for snow, this was taken at 9am.


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## Glenn (Mar 2, 2018)

Lookin good! Will be interesting to see how many people are venturing up from the flatlands this evening.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 4, 2018)

Grand Summit being delayed yesterday most of the morning made for quite a shit-show.


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## MountSnow (Mar 6, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Grand Summit being delayed yesterday most of the morning made for quite a shit-show.



Sorry about all that. 

From our head of lift ops: 
"The combination between wind and snow caused the issues on the Grand Summit on Saturday. On Friday summit access was on wind hold - including lift 11 - which prevented us from doing any "de-icing" of the grips or chairs. What we did do several times during the day Friday was clean out the terminal of snow and hoar frost and the conveying system that drives the chairs to reduce delay Saturday; however, wind continued over night and things were recoated in the morning. We began working on the terminal again first thing in the morning, but also had other areas that needed attention (like evaluating wind and changing wheels that froze over night). Furthermore, lift 11 is different from lifts 2 and 9 in how it drives the chairs through the terminal, and because of that chairs are more likely to stall during inclement weather which is why we go through the terminal thoroughly."


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## Jcb890 (Mar 6, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Sorry about all that.
> 
> From our head of lift ops:
> "The combination between wind and snow caused the issues on the Grand Summit on Saturday. On Friday summit access was on wind hold - including lift 11 - which prevented us from doing any "de-icing" of the grips or chairs. What we did do several times during the day Friday was clean out the terminal of snow and hoar frost and the conveying system that drives the chairs to reduce delay Saturday; however, wind continued over night and things were recoated in the morning. We began working on the terminal again first thing in the morning, but also had other areas that needed attention (like evaluating wind and changing wheels that froze over night). Furthermore, lift 11 is different from lifts 2 and 9 in how it drives the chairs through the terminal, and because of that chairs are more likely to stall during inclement weather which is why we go through the terminal thoroughly."


Will summit access be open Thursday after Wednesday afternoon/evening's storm?  I know it starts earlier and ends Thursday sometime, but Wednesday PM is when winds will be highest and snow heaviest.


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## MountSnow (Mar 6, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Will summit access be open Thursday after Wednesday afternoon/evening's storm?  I know it starts earlier and ends Thursday sometime, but Wednesday PM is when winds will be highest and snow heaviest.



It's too early to make a call like that. We strive to have summit access everyday, but sometimes find ourselves at the mercy of the wind. We'll see how this storm comes in and goes out, but Thursday is looking less windy than Wednesday.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 6, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> It's too early to make a call like that. We strive to have summit access everyday, but sometimes find ourselves at the mercy of the wind. We'll see how this storm comes in and goes out, but Thursday is looking less windy than Wednesday.


I agree it looks less windy Thursday, just wondering if in your expertise you thought Wednesday's wind and snow would cause issues that would lead to wind holds on Thursday.  Thursday itself winds and snow should not be an issue.


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## MountSnow (Mar 6, 2018)

We're not going to make any firm calls, but Wednesday is calling for winds will be in the 25-40knot range coming out of the NE at the summit, which could very well effect main face lifts to the summit. Thursday however does look like it will die off quite a bit, but we'll see how fast this storm leaves us. 

Wish we could be more concrete, but it's really an hour by hour thing with these Nor'easters.


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## ss20 (Mar 6, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We're not going to make any firm calls, but Wednesday is calling for winds will be in the 25-40knot range coming out of the NE at the summit, which could very well effect main face lifts to the summit. Thursday however does look like it will die off quite a bit, but we'll see how fast this storm leaves us.
> 
> Wish we could be more concrete, but it's really an hour by hour thing with these Nor'easters.



Did this morning's issue with the Bluebird get resolved?


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## MountSnow (Mar 6, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Did this morning's issue with the Bluebird get resolved?



Still working on it. Got a little gremlin in the computer system. May have to call Ghost Busters.


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## MountSnow (Mar 7, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Still working on it. Got a little gremlin in the computer system. May have to call Ghost Busters.



And it's back!


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## Jcb890 (Mar 7, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> And it's back!


Will the crew be out grooming tonight or will you guys let this snowfall drop and keep it all natural?


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## drjeff (Mar 7, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Will the crew be out grooming tonight or will you guys let this snowfall drop and keep it all natural?



The typical plan is if it's a beginner trail or atleast 1/3-1/2 the width of a fan gun lined trail or a Carinthia park trail, it will see some "love" from a Pisten Bully before 1st chair on Thursday.... Other than that, short of a few connector flat sections of certain trails, historically Mount Snow has been fairly conservative with grooming on the morning after a storm....


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## Jcb890 (Mar 7, 2018)

drjeff said:


> They typical plan is if it's a beginner trail *or atleast 1/3-1/2 the width of a fan gun lined trail* or a Carinthia park trail, it will see some "love" from a Pisten Bully before 1st chair on Thursday.... Other than that, short of a few connector flat sections of certain trails, historically Mount Snow has been fairly conservative with grooming on the morning after a storm....


Not sure what you mean there...
Are they going to groom blue main face trails like Cascade, Canyon, Ridge, or the North Face?


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Not sure what you mean there...
> Are they going to groom blue main face trails like Cascade, Canyon, Ridge, or the North Face?



You better hope they groom the front face or you won't be able to ski down some of them as you will get stuck on them in the heavy snow.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 7, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> You better hope they groom the front face or you won't be able to ski down some of them as you will get stuck on them in the heavy snow.


This storm isn't going to bring snow nearly as heavy as last Friday's storm, right?  Friday the issue was wind slowing you down, snow wasn't as much of an issue.


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## drjeff (Mar 7, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Not sure what you mean there...
> Are they going to groom blue main face trails like Cascade, Canyon, Ridge, or the North Face?



They usually won't full width groom the intermediate fan gun lined trails. You might see 2 or 3 passes along the fan gun side of a trail like Ridge or Lodge or Canyon, and then the remainder of the width ungroomed

Highly doubt, short of maybe the run out on River Run or the immediate base area on the Northface, that the rest of that part of the mountain will get groomed.... Since the apparently winch catted Ripcord yesterday, that should be some sweet, steep powder turns for sure!


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## Jcb890 (Mar 7, 2018)

drjeff said:


> They usually won't full width groom the intermediate fan gun lined trails. You might see 2 or 3 passes along the fan gun side of a trail like Ridge or Lodge or Canyon, and then the remainder of the width ungroomed


Ah, gotcha.  Thank you doctor.


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## MountSnow (Mar 7, 2018)

2018-19 Peak Passes are now on sale!

Full release here: 
www.mountsnow.com/media-room/2018-2019-peak-pass/

*Peak Pass Options for 2018-19*
*Explorer Pass:* Access to unlimited skiing and riding, starting at $399 for children ages 7 to 17, and only $629 for adults aged 29 and older if purchased by April 30, 2018. Also features valuable benefits, including winter retail discounts and discounted access to summer attractions.
*Ranger Pass:* Priced at $529 for all ages, featuring only 11 blacked-out holiday dates.
*Drifter Pass:* Unlimited skiing and riding access for 18-29 year olds priced at $399.
*Traveler Pass:* Priced at $329 for all ages, featuring unlimited midweek-only skiing and riding.
*Scout Pass:* Priced at just $60, provides unlimited skiing and riding access to all seven resorts for children ages six and younger.

Spring pricing is valid until April 30, 2018 and includes access for the remainder of the 2017-18 season.RL]


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## MountSnow (Mar 8, 2018)

Oh man that was a good one! 
33" and a few more on the way for tomorrow.


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## Edd (Mar 8, 2018)

Unbelievable! Congrats to Mt Snow!



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## sankaty (Mar 8, 2018)

Mount Snow was phenomenal today.  The North Face trails, especially the woods, were as good as they get.  A day for the record books.

It wasn't a great day for mountain operations, though.  When I arrived just after 9AM, they were still clearing parking lots and didn't seem to have any attendants working, causing a big backup on the access road and making it very difficult to find parking.  By the time I got that sorted and was ready to ski, they only had the Bluebird running on the main face and the line was very long.  When I finally got up to the summit, I went straight to the North Face, but discovered that only one of those lifts was running and it was malfunctioning.  It stopped for about 30 minutes causing a huge crowd at the bottom of the NF.  All these events conspired to limit me to only one run by 12PM even though I had arrived almost three hours earlier.  They seemed to be caught extremely flat-footed by both the snow and the crowd, which was frustrating when I've taken the day off for a special trip.

They did eventually spin up some other lifts, and things got much better.  I usually find Snow to be a well-run mountain in general.  I suspect there were some behind-the-scenes problems that prevented the mountain from offering the level of service they usually aim to deliver.


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## MountSnow (Mar 9, 2018)

sankaty said:


> Mount Snow was phenomenal today.  The North Face trails, especially the woods, were as good as they get.  A day for the record books.
> 
> It wasn't a great day for mountain operations, though.  When I arrived just after 9AM, they were still clearing parking lots and didn't seem to have any attendants working, causing a big backup on the access road and making it very difficult to find parking.  By the time I got that sorted and was ready to ski, they only had the Bluebird running on the main face and the line was very long.  When I finally got up to the summit, I went straight to the North Face, but discovered that only one of those lifts was running and it was malfunctioning.  It stopped for about 30 minutes causing a huge crowd at the bottom of the NF.  All these events conspired to limit me to only one run by 12PM even though I had arrived almost three hours earlier.  They seemed to be caught extremely flat-footed by both the snow and the crowd, which was frustrating when I've taken the day off for a special trip.
> 
> They did eventually spin up some other lifts, and things got much better.  I usually find Snow to be a well-run mountain in general.  I suspect there were some behind-the-scenes problems that prevented the mountain from offering the level of service they usually aim to deliver.



Yeah, turns out we're not really set up to get three feet in 36hrs. Our plow teams were actually out all night and they just couldn't keep up with this storm that at one point saw 4.75" fall in ONE HOUR! As for the lifts, The Bluebird was good to go at 9am as planned, but The North Face needed a ton of digging out, which we did as fast as possible, we even had the marketing team and our GM out there shoveling drifts that were 6-7' in and around the lifts. Once they were dug out and open, they were walk-on for the rest of the day. 

As for Challenger, it did stop, but it was for less than 15 minutes. We know this, because had it been for more than that, it would have auto-triggered our lift evac readiesness protocalls, and we never got to that point. 

All in all, we think we managed to pull things off pretty well with such a massive dumping of snow.


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## MommaBear (Mar 9, 2018)

sankaty said:


> All these events conspired to limit me to only one run by 12PM even though I had arrived almost three hours earlier.



All in the timing, I guess.  We arrived to the mountain closer to 10, parking at Carinthia.  Got right on Nitro (no wait), took a couple of runs over there, then headed to the front/main base.  Singles lined moved very quickly on the Bluebird - took 2 runs on front, then headed for North Face - believe it was just after 11 at that point.  With the exception of one run in the afternoon, after the Outpost lift closed down and the crowd swelled, lift was a quick ski on, never more than a couple of minutes wait.  As annoyed as I was at my teenager for dragging his feet getting to the mountain and wanting to do Carinthia first, I guess I owe him a world of thanks!


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## sankaty (Mar 9, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Yeah, turns out we're not really set up to get three feet in 36hrs. Our plow teams were actually out all night and they just couldn't keep up with this storm that at one point saw 4.75" fall in ONE HOUR! As for the lifts, The Bluebird was good to go at 9am as planned, but The North Face needed a ton of digging out, which we did as fast as possible, we even had the marketing team and our GM out there shoveling drifts that were 6-7' in and around the lifts. Once they were dug out and open, they were walk-on for the rest of the day.
> 
> As for Challenger, it did stop, but it was for less than 15 minutes. We know this, because had it been for more than that, it would have auto-triggered our lift evac readiesness protocalls, and we never got to that point.
> 
> All in all, we think we managed to pull things off pretty well with such a massive dumping of snow.



Thanks so much for this response.  The resources to dig out the lifts is something that I hadn't considered.  It obviously is an enormous challenge to keep business going as usual after such an anomalous snowfall.

Looking at my Garmin data, my delay from the Challenger lift issue was 24 minutes (not including the ride up the chair).  It's possible, however, that the lift was only down for 15 minutes, and the rest of the delay was due to crowding at the lift.  It's not a big deal, and I wouldn't have mentioned any of this if it were not for the combined effect of all the delays, most of which were out of the mountain's control.

I suppose my only suggestion would be to have the Canyon lift running by 10AM?   That would have greatly alleviated the crowd at the Bluebird in the morning.  Perhaps the same snow-related resource challenges that led to the other delays may have made running the Canyon earlier not feasible.

Either way, I had a phenomenal day of skiing (one of many I've had at Mount Snow over the years).  I'll definitely be back.  Thanks for keeping us informed!


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## slatham (Mar 9, 2018)

sankaty said:


> Thanks so much for this response.  The resources to dig out the lifts is something that I hadn't considered.  It obviously is an enormous challenge to keep business going as usual after such an anomalous snowfall.
> 
> Looking at my Garmin data, my delay from the Challenger lift issue was 24 minutes (not including the ride up the chair).  It's possible, however, that the lift was only down for 15 minutes, and the rest of the delay was due to crowding at the lift.  It's not a big deal, and I wouldn't have mentioned any of this if it were not for the combined effect of all the delays, most of which were out of the mountain's control.
> 
> ...



Besides getting a very unusual 36", this was basically TWICE as much as expected with most forecasts at 18" maybe 20". And a good 18" fell in only a few overnight hours. Besides Mt Snow having to dig out, all the employees had to dig out to even get there! I think anyone with lifts running at 9 did well.


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## MountSnow (Mar 9, 2018)

Taken around noon on Friday on Exhibition on our Main Face.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 9, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> All in all, we think we managed to pull things off pretty well with such a massive dumping of snow.


I agree.  The lift delays were a bit frustrating, but I was able to get my fill until my legs wouldn't work properly any more!
As for the parking lot, I didn't think it was that bad at all.



MountSnow said:


> View attachment 23468
> Taken around noon on Friday on Exhibition on our Main Face.


We were regularly finding untouched sections of snow reaching up to my chest... I'm 6'1".  It was unreal.


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## kingslug (Mar 10, 2018)

Hope there is a little left for sunday.


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## MountSnow (Mar 10, 2018)

kingslug said:


> Hope there is a little left for sunday.



We've been farming it pretty well by just cutting one or two passes down several trails and keeping the rest natural. Plus we picked up 6" last night, and it's been snowing all day today. There will be plenty of fun left for Sunday.


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## skifree (Mar 10, 2018)

first run Friday dug a lady out of a snow drift in a gully . only a glove sticking out. 
snow was deep. dicey situation. enjoy and be careful.
rest day today and reload for sunday.

awesome conditions!!! get at it


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## gmcunni (Mar 10, 2018)

looks like a few of the MT Snow faithful are out today


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## Pez (Mar 10, 2018)

looks like they are currently extending the lift line ropes on the HSQ to accommodate the mob.


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## speden (Mar 10, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> looks like a few of the MT Snow faithful are out today



:-o That should help pay for that new snowmaking system. Even Wachusett doesn't get that busy.


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## SLyardsale (Mar 10, 2018)

I was lucky on Friday I guess.  Rode up Tumbleweed right at 9am to get over to Bluebird.  Skied 2 runs off Bluebird and went to Sunbrook and skied a couple of laps on Beartrap which was a hoot.  Rode back up Sunbrook (slow) and skied to Northface.  Only Outpost was running but the line was not bad - I'd say 5 mins tops and they were starting to spin Challenger which came on line after 1 Northface run. I'd say it was around 10:30 by then.  Skied back to the main face and they had Grand Summit up and it was ski on.  We also did a few runs off Canyon X with no lines - I didn't even realize it opened late.  I skied 9-3pm with a longish break for lunch to let the 2nd dose of Advil kick in.  I skied 7:30 - 12:30 today non stop and then the legs gave out.  It was crowded at the base but Northface was not crowded at all.  Singles line a Canyon X moves fast so the lift crowd at the base was manageable IMO.  The summit at noon was crazy crowded though - never seen so many skies parked in front of the Bull Wheel.


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## Pez (Mar 11, 2018)

Did the afternoon thing at Snow today.  Conditions were great.  Everything open. Busy but I lucked in to a fairly close parking spot. Crowded but manageable lift lines.  There were actually people over on Sunbrook which was shocking.  

Good time.  Hopefully this continues for the rest of the month.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ski&soccermom (Mar 11, 2018)

Epic weekend at Mount Snow.  Thanks so much for all you do - we had an awesome time Saturday starting at 7:30 am and today!  Crowds were fully manageable if you know the mountain and where to go!


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> looks like a few of the MT Snow faithful are out today
> View attachment 23479


Wow, that's insane!
Yesterday wasn't too bad.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2018)

gmcunni said:


> looks like a few of the MT Snow faithful are out today
> View attachment 23479



No.     Just....no.  

In a never, ever, kind of way.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> No.     Just....no.
> 
> In a never, ever, kind of way.


After doing a couple Saturdays over the last few weekends, I do not think I'll go there any more Saturdays.  Its brutal.
Sundays are manageable though.


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## Smellytele (Mar 12, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Wow, that's insane!
> Yesterday wasn't too bad.



Even if it was half that...

No.     Just....no.  

In a never, ever, kind of way.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Even if it was half that...
> 
> No.     Just....no.
> 
> In a never, ever, kind of way.


Oh, I agree.  I never even thought about going on Saturday for those same reasons.  I figured it would be insanely busy with the snow and mild temps.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 12, 2018)

It's a fair question to ask.. and should have been already if we didn't kiss reps asses whenever they come on here...

What is Mount Snow's future strategy to mitigate crowds? Crowd control. It's simply not a viable weekend destination for discerning skiers after November.

Is the strategy to just get crowded out on weekends, make a bunch of $, and anyone else can come week days or go elsewhere?

Just curious. IMO now that you've got snowmaking improved, this is clearly the biggest weakness.

If nothing changes you'll still see me on the season margins. I guess it's OK if you're crowded with casual skiers/riders on weekends main season? From a business model I see no problem with that, a constant supply of future customers, if they decide to stay.

Curious on Mount Snow's thoughts on that.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> It's a fair question to ask.. and should have been already if we didn't kiss reps asses whenever they come on here...
> 
> What is Mount Snow's future strategy to mitigate crowds? Crowd control. It's simply not a viable weekend destination for discerning skiers after November.
> 
> ...


Sundays it is a viable option.  Some Saturdays are too.  This weekend everyone knew would be a shit-show after they got almost 40" in 2 days with moderate temps.  I'm not trying to defend Mt. Snow - Saturday's lines look just awful.

New England is crowded, period.  Plain and simple, there are tons of people and not enough acreage to spread them out.  All the bigger resorts have crowding issues.

What is going to solve the issue?  Either more acreage or less skiers/riders.


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## WJenness (Mar 12, 2018)

That base area is not a good look.

But this is what my friend and I experienced on Friday:







It was just so good...

This is an on map glade, wonder if it looks familiar to anyone here.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> *Is the strategy to just get crowded out on weekends, make a bunch of $, and anyone else can come week days or go elsewhere?*



Yes.   While never admitted or stated, yes.

It's owned by a publicly traded company.  




Jcb890 said:


> *What is going to solve the issue?*  Either more acreage or less skiers/riders.



Babyboomers getting too old and/or departing this earth?   

 I mean, that's what I've been hearing for the last 20 years, that once the babyboomers cant ski anymore, the ski industry is going to be in trouble.  Hopefully that's a failed futurist prediction, but I feel like I've been hearing that mantra forever.


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## jaytrem (Mar 12, 2018)

Saturday seemed no worse than many others to me.  Probably due to lack of parking.  Crowds just showed up earlier than normal.  If you don't mind the fixed grips they were all basically ski right on.  Only difference was we didn't get out usual early morning short line high speed lift rides.

Not sure what all the people that tried to arrive after 8:30 did.  Mountain may have lost a lot of money due to lack of parking.


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 12, 2018)

Odd question to ask how do you mitigate crowds.Any ski area would love to have too many people.I know I wouldnt ski at a place with big crowds but obviously the crowds of people do otherwise.The only answers are to put more people up the hill with lifts or limit ticket sales.I think Snow is more than enough uphill capacity so tickets sales would be the only one in my mind.


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## jaytrem (Mar 12, 2018)

SIKSKIER said:


> Odd question to ask how do you mitigate crowds.Any ski area would love to have too many people.I know I wouldnt ski at a place with big crowds but obviously the crowds of people do otherwise.The only answers are to put more people up the hill with lifts or limit ticket sales.I think Snow is more than enough uphill capacity so tickets sales would be the only one in my mind.



Crowds are mostly at the high speed chairs.  If they build more it should spread the people out.  Not sure I'll be happy about it or not when it happens.  North Face used to have a lot more lines before all the high speeds showed up on the front.  So it's kinda nice that it's quieter over there these days.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Babyboomers getting too old and/or departing this earth?
> 
> I mean, that's what I've been hearing for the last 20 years, that once the babyboomers cant ski anymore, the ski industry is going to be in trouble.  Hopefully that's a failed futurist prediction, but I feel like I've been hearing that mantra forever.


Yeah, that's not happening.  I see tons of kids out there skiing/riding or learning to do so.  Neither sport is dying.  The odds are much better of the climate dictating a change to our sport rather than demographics or people just giving up on the sport.

People thinking crowd-control is somehow going to get better in New England are dreaming.  The sports' popularity isn't really going away, it doesn't seem like there's less of the younger crowd, actually, it seems like the crowds are generally younger, NOT older.  So, that prediction is likely not only wrong, but crowds will continue to grow as younger generations continue the sport and continue reproducing.

There are 2 answers/options to lowering crowds, both are very simple in principal.  It is the "HOW" that is the hard part.

1 - More acreage:  More space to put people or for people to go means you can put more people on the summit or on a lift as opposed to having lift lines.  Right now, most of the mountains can't really increase up-hill capacity by much more.  The trails are already crowded as it is.
2 - Less people:  The resorts don't want this and it doesn't seem like skiing or snowboarding is dying off any time soon, so there is going to be MORE people in the future, not less.


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## cdskier (Mar 12, 2018)

SIKSKIER said:


> Odd question to ask how do you mitigate crowds.Any ski area would love to have too many people.I know I wouldnt ski at a place with big crowds but obviously the crowds of people do otherwise.The only answers are to put more people up the hill with lifts or limit ticket sales.I think Snow is more than enough uphill capacity so tickets sales would be the only one in my mind.



Yea...we had this same discussion not too long ago in another thread about other ski areas. There's really no easy way to "mitigate crowds". Busy days are going to be busy. If you increase uphill capacity, then you make the downhill experience more crowded. If you limit sales, you lose out on potential revenue and could also make some people not want to come back. Sort of a catch 22 type of scenario for many mountains. Piss people off with big crowds or piss people off by turning them away.


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## slatham (Mar 12, 2018)

SIKSKIER said:


> Odd question to ask how do you mitigate crowds.Any ski area would love to have too many people.I know I wouldnt ski at a place with big crowds but obviously the crowds of people do otherwise.The only answers are to put more people up the hill with lifts or limit ticket sales.I think Snow is more than enough uphill capacity so tickets sales would be the only one in my mind.



You can always limit ticket sales.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> Crowds are mostly at the high speed chairs.  If they build more it should spread the people out.  Not sure I'll be happy about it or not when it happens.  North Face used to have a lot more lines before all the high speeds showed up on the front.  So it's kinda nice that it's quieter over there these days.


More high speed lifts = more people at the summit/going downhill at the same time.

The main face can't really handle that much more downhill traffic though, in my opinion.  On a busy Saturday, Long John is almost un-skiiable/un-rideable.  There's people EVERYWHERE.  Same goes for a trail like Loon's Grand Junction.  Putting more people on the trail only solves 1 issue while making others worse.


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## drjeff (Mar 12, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> It's a fair question to ask.. and should have been already if we didn't kiss reps asses whenever they come on here...
> 
> What is Mount Snow's future strategy to mitigate crowds? Crowd control. It's simply not a viable weekend destination for discerning skiers after November.
> 
> ...



The reality is, there's not much that they can do, since to help mitigate the crowds, you really need more acres, and they're pretty well built out, short of what would likely be a LONG, costly process, with uncertain results to try and get approval from the US Forest service to either expand out past the Trials on the North Face or expand around the Sunbrook pod.  The often mentioned "buy the Hermitage and connect the 2 is just way too costly now, and with the same uncertain outcome from the forest service about trail expansion to connect the 2.

Mount Snow, in all, likelihood, will be replacing/upgrading some lifts in the coming years. Their master plan calls for Sunbrook to become a highspeed lift (quad?6 pack? bubble or not? all TBD), as well as some lift changes in and around the Discovery Center learning area and the Sundance Lodge area once that is redone.  Alos, it is likely in the not too distant future that some lift changes will be happening around the Carinthia base area once that new lodge is complete and likely more people use that lodge as their starting/ending point of the day.  Even if and when those lift upgrades happen, I'm not sure that uphill capacity will change that much, as without more acres to sprtead people on, increasing lift capacity will just increase on hill density.

As an aside, and now that next years pass prices are out, there are many of us, who are long time Mount Snow season passholders and if not second home owners in the area, are driving there most every weekend they're open for the entire season, who frankly would like Peak to help manage crowds by adding a few hundred dollars to the Explorer Pass price and/or go back to the way it was a few seasons ago where unless you bought Peak's top pass product, you didn't get unlimited days at Mount Snow.  I know that these last few sentences are going to get the negative comments flying here. I also know that I have heard this topic discussed, with the willingness to pay more, by many core families at the mountain who do spend a great deal of money at Mount Snow every year via season passes, youth program costs, equipment purchases at Mount Snow, Food and Beverage purchases at Mount Snow, bringing many non Peak pass people up to the mountain every season who then buy lift tickets, lessons, food and beverage, etc, etc, etc

Lastly, as someone who because of my kids racing schedule, does ski Stratton a half dozen days a year, and then also drives through Stratton on my way to other mountains my kids are racing at many other days a year. Frankly, a crowded day at Mount Snow isn't much different than a crowded day at Stratton.  LOTS of people are drawn to them for very good reasons in their own view. If you know how to manage your way around the mountain, you can get a good number of runs in with fairly minimal lift lines.  And I can honestly say that the longest liftline I waited in all season thus far, was at Magic yesterday about 11:30 as my wife and I were heading up the Black on our way to watch our kids second race run.  The line for the Black appeared shorter than the Red when we headed out of the Lodge at about 11:20 - we loaded the Black at 11:35. You learn to handle things, and sometimes you just have to brave a line, and remember that BIG lines, while an annoyance for sure, are a GOOD thing for the ski industry as a whole


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## drjeff (Mar 12, 2018)

WJenness said:


> That base area is not a good look.
> 
> But this is what my friend and I experienced on Friday:
> 
> ...



Looks like you were either getting ready to do some maple sugaring or listen to Pink Floyd


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

drjeff said:


> The reality is, there's not much that they can do, since to help mitigate the crowds, you really need more acres, and they're pretty well built out, short of what would likely be a LONG, costly process, with uncertain results to try and get approval from the US Forest service to either expand out past the Trials on the North Face or expand around the Sunbrook pod.  The often mentioned "buy the Hermitage and connect the 2 is just way too costly now, and with the same uncertain outcome from the forest service about trail expansion to connect the 2.
> 
> Mount Snow, in all, likelihood, will be replacing/upgrading some lifts in the coming years. Their master plan calls for Sunbrook to become a highspeed lift (quad?6 pack? bubble or not? all TBD), as well as some lift changes in and around the Discovery Center learning area and the Sundance Lodge area once that is redone.  Alos, it is likely in the not too distant future that some lift changes will be happening around the Carinthia base area once that new lodge is complete and likely more people use that lodge as their starting/ending point of the day.  Even if and when those lift upgrades happen, I'm not sure that uphill capacity will change that much, as without more acres to sprtead people on, increasing lift capacity will just increase on hill density.
> 
> ...


A 6-pack over on Sunbrook?  Talk about overkill.  I enjoy the Sunbrook terrain and its a nice escape from the crowds, but no way is a 6-person chair needed over there for 900 vertical feet.  A HSQ would be nice though.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> The sports' popularity isn't really going away, it doesn't seem like there's less of the younger crowd, *actually, it seems like the crowds are generally younger, NOT older.*  So, that prediction is likely not only wrong, but crowds will continue to grow as younger generations continue the sport and continue reproducing.



I guess it depends what age you're calling "younger", but I certainly dont consider myself "young" anymore (Generation X), and yet I feel a healthy number of people in the lift lines & lodge are clearly older than me.  So maybe it's my perception & I'm wrong, but I feel the mean skier age is a number that is not "young" per se.


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## drjeff (Mar 12, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> More high speed lifts = more people at the summit/going downhill at the same time.
> 
> The main face can't really handle that much more downhill traffic though, in my opinion.  On a busy Saturday, Long John is almost un-skiiable/un-rideable.  There's people EVERYWHERE.  Same goes for a trail like Loon's Grand Junction.  Putting more people on the trail only solves 1 issue while making others worse.



Not necessarily - many resorts will install a high speed lift, that has the exact same capacity as a fixed grip lift, just a shorter ride time.

For example, the Bluebird has it's chairs spaced at 9 seconds, which puts 400 chairs an hour through the summit terminal for a theoretical capacity of 2400 people an hour if all 400 chairs were fully loaded AND the chair didn't stop or slow down for a full hour (I honestly doubt such an hour has EVER happened since the Bluebird was installed  )  The Grand Summit Express, Canyon Express and Nitro Express use 6 second spacing, which puts 600 chairs an hour through the summit terminal for the same theoretical 2400 people per hour capacity as the Bluebird has.  The old summit local triple that the Bluebird replaced had a capacity of 1800 people per hour. In theory, if Mount Snow ordered more chairs for the Bluebird and reprogrammed the chair for the same 6 second spacing it uses for most of it's other lifts, the Bluebird could have a 3600 people per hour capacity.

Just because it's a high speed lift doesn't always mean that it's a higher capacity lift than a fixed grip, just a shorter ride time once you load it


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 12, 2018)

Killington has done it right IMO. Of course they get more crowds than anyone in VT, at least as of last season. But I can go there on a Saturday mid season, and as long as I don't arrive late, expect a decent parking spot (at choice of 5 base areas).

Lines might be bad at one or two key lifts but mostly short/no lines.

If you can't add more base areas or more lifts, and have limited acreage... what do you do?

Add woods. People take longer to ski woods and it spreads them out. If people take 2x as long to ski woods as trails that means the woods skiers are riding the lift half the time.

Obviously its not a direct equation but adding LOTS of woods is something Mt Snow is ready for and lacks in thus far, easiest way to spread out traffic on the hill.

I will never buy a $1000 seasons pass when I can buy a $29 Ski and Ride New England Card and some $40 VT passes so if raising that price makes a difference, idk, that's a selfish one lol


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## drjeff (Mar 12, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> A 6-pack over on Sunbrook?  Talk about overkill.  I enjoy the Sunbrook terrain and its a nice escape from the crowds, but no way is a 6-person chair needed over there for 900 vertical feet.  A HSQ would be nice though.



Apparently any lift upgrades over in Sunbrook will come concurrently or after the snowmaking is expanded to 100% in that pod, and likely some type of yurt with some food and beverage service and bathroom facilities are added by the base of the Sunbrook and Bear Trap lifts to make it more of a pod that people want to take some laps in (and hence take crowds off other parts of the mountain) rather than just use it as a pass through type part of the mountain as a good deal of people do now...


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I guess it depends what age you're calling "younger", but I certainly dont consider myself "young" anymore (Generation X), and yet I feel a healthy number of people in the lift lines & lodge are clearly older than me.  So maybe it's my perception & I'm wrong, but I feel the mean skier age is a number that is not "young" per se.


At 33, I hardly consider myself young or part of that demographic.  Yes, there is a good amount of people older than I am in the line and lodge.  However, there is also a huge amount of people in line and lodge that are younger than I am, or around the same age and getting their kids into it, etc.  I think what you are speaking of is a myth.  The ski/snowboard industry as a sport is going nowhere, even when the Babyboomers are gone.



drjeff said:


> Not necessarily - many resorts will install a high speed lift, that has the exact same capacity as a fixed grip lift, just a shorter ride time.
> 
> For example, the Bluebird has it's chairs spaced at 9 seconds, which puts 400 chairs an hour through the summit terminal for a theoretical capacity of 2400 people an hour if all 400 chairs were fully loaded AND the chair didn't stop or slow down for a full hour (I honestly doubt such an hour has EVER happened since the Bluebird was installed  )  The Grand Summit Express, Canyon Express and Nitro Express use 6 second spacing, which puts 600 chairs an hour through the summit terminal for the same theoretical 2400 people per hour capacity as the Bluebird has.  The old summit local triple that the Bluebird replaced had a capacity of 1800 people per hour. In theory, if Mount Snow ordered more chairs for the Bluebird and reprogrammed the chair for the same 6 second spacing it uses for most of it's other lifts, the Bluebird could have a 3600 people per hour capacity.
> 
> Just because it's a high speed lift doesn't always mean that it's a higher capacity lift than a fixed grip, just a shorter ride time once you load it


That is a good point.  It would be great to have a HSQ over on Sunbrook to have a shorter lift ride.  I still think a 6-person chair over there is just not needed.  It would be great if there was more vert. over there, 900' isn't all that much.  Do you think it justifies a 6-person chair?



bdfreetuna said:


> Killington has done it right IMO. Of course they get more crowds than anyone in VT, at least as of last season. But I can go there on a Saturday mid season, and as long as I don't arrive late, expect a decent parking spot (at choice of 5 base areas).
> 
> Lines might be bad at one or two key lifts but mostly short/no lines.
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, I love Killington, its probably my favorite VT mountain, but I have seen lines at Ramshead and for the Gondola that rival any other mountains.  Pretty much all of the mountains you can manage your way to find less-crowded lifts.  On a holiday weekend/nice Saturday in New England, all the major resorts are busy and have lines.

I do agree/buy into the woods idea with Mt. Snow.  I do not agree it will help that much though.  For selfish reasons though, I would love some nicely-spaced trees at Mt. Snow, most of them are too tight to be fun for me.

I think Peak is in the sweet-spot right now.  High enough price to make money, but not too high to drive people away.  Much higher and it would drive people away.  All of the other passes have much more high-profile big-time mountains on them.  Mt. Snow regulars would probably like that, but I doubt the Peak company would.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 12, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> *Add woods. People take longer to ski woods and it spreads them out.** If people take 2x as long to ski woods as trails that means the woods skiers are riding the lift half the time.*



I doubt that helps much.  

 I mean, what percentage of skiers ski the woods?  I have no idea, but I suspect it's very small, maybe 10%?  If that.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 12, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I doubt that helps much.
> 
> I mean, what percentage of skiers ski the woods?  I have no idea, but I suspect it's very small, maybe 10%?  If that.



And this is why I love skiing there so much.


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## jaytrem (Mar 12, 2018)

I seem to recall 6 seaters and 4 seaters don't have much difference in price.  The big advantage is you can get a family of 5 or 6 on the same chair.  Want lower capacity, just buy less chairs.


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## cdskier (Mar 12, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I doubt that helps much.
> 
> I mean, what percentage of skiers ski the woods?  I have no idea, but I suspect it's very small, maybe 10%?  If that.



I think it depends on the mountain. At some mountains I would certainly put the percentage higher, others lower. But I also agree that it wouldn't necessarily help much because even at resorts where tree skiing is a "big" thing, chances are it is still only being done by a minority of the people on the mountain any given day.


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## benski (Mar 12, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> A 6-pack over on Sunbrook?  Talk about overkill.  I enjoy the Sunbrook terrain and its a nice escape from the crowds, but no way is a 6-person chair needed over there for 900 vertical feet.  A HSQ would be nice though.



I think they should move the base lower down to increase capacity, They could add another 1/3 of a mile and a trail further to the right, but probably stick with a high speed quad.


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## Jcb890 (Mar 12, 2018)

benski said:


> I think they should move the base lower down to increase capacity, They could add another 1/3 of a mile and a trail further to the right, but probably stick with a high speed quad.


That would be kind of awesome.

Little Dipper, Big Dipper or Moon Walk to Moon Beam was fantastic yesterday.  Can't help but want some more vert. and at least a HSQ over there though.

I can see why they wouldn't bother expanding until they have snow-making over there, but it might make sense to do it at the same time so you're not laying down snow-making plans for a trail layout which is going to be changing.  There is land out past Olympic on the North Face and land outside of the Dipper trails on Sunbrook (width-wise) as well as what appears to be tons of land directly below the current Sunbrook end/lifts.  Not sure about the pitch of all of the available land or who might own it, but there is land there for sure.


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## benski (Mar 12, 2018)

Treas and moguls make a huge difference at Sugarbush. I am not as familiar with other mountains. 

I also find high capacity Fixed grips, such as the North Face lifts at Snow or North Lynx, at Sugarbush, sometimes help a little more than detaches. Its unlikely those area will see more people if detach replaced the current lifts but at least I can sit for longer and the terminal is much more quite. Of course of the Detach gets me up faster I would improve but I am never in a rush to get in line more quickly.


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## jaytrem (Mar 12, 2018)

Old expansion map had trail going down past Sunbrook and another chair....

https://skimap.org/data/210/2200/1473544370.jpeg

I think it's pretty flat stuff though.  There's an XC trail that runs from the bottom, I know that's quite flat.


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## Newpylong (Mar 12, 2018)

Assuming the Dippers and Shooting Star get snowmaking coverage I think a HSQ (not a 6) to replace the current Sunbrook Quad is a good move. I don't believe extending it will provide any meaningful terrain and would balloon the project cost. Plus you want the bottom terminal next to Beartrap if the goal is to create a busier pod with a yurt that people will actually use. The current lift's vert isn't too high but it is a decent length.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 12, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> Assuming the Dippers and Shooting Star get snowmaking coverage I think a HSQ (not a 6) to replace the current Sunbrook Quad is a good move. I don't believe extending it will provide any meaningful terrain and would balloon the project cost. Plus you want the bottom terminal next to Beartrap if the goal is to create a busier pod with a yurt that people will actually use. The current lift's vert isn't too high but it is a decent length.


100% spot on IMHO!! 

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## mtsnow123 (Mar 15, 2018)

The $17 deal tomorrow is sure to intrigue the masses to come shred. I'd say the best $17 one could spend this winter.

DrJeff, I would love to see what the walkway outside of the Timber Creek condo looks like this weekend!


----------



## drjeff (Mar 15, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> DrJeff, I would love to see what the walkway outside of the Timber Creek condo looks like this weekend!



Wish I could post a pic this weekend, but my crew is going to be over in NH at Gunstock all weekend long for the last races of the season for my son....

While I've been at my condo 2 weekends over the last month, this weekend will be my 4th in a row where I haven't skied Mount Snow due to my kids racing schedule (a day at Stratton, a day at Pico, 3 days at Middlebury Snow Bowl, a day at Bromley and a day at Magic with 2 days to come this weekend at Gunstock)!!!  I'll really be chomping at the bit to put my season pass back on about a week from now and get back on my home snow!!!!

Tomorrow is very likely going to be crazy busy at Mount Snow with the $17 tickets, all the new snow, and a decent forecast!!


----------



## mtsnow123 (Mar 15, 2018)

And there's potential at the moment for another big storm next week. With the cold and snow together, it's going to be a great late March into Spring April.


----------



## dhmcgill87 (Mar 15, 2018)

How far into April are we looking?  Assuming below average temps stick around through March as forecasted.  Second weekend in april?  Third weekend?


----------



## sugarbushskier (Mar 15, 2018)

You are talking about Saturday the 17th not tomorrow, correct?


----------



## mtsnow123 (Mar 15, 2018)

I would definitely say second weekend of April. And then maybe do weekend operations only through the rest of the month.


----------



## ski&soccermom (Mar 15, 2018)

sugarbushskier said:


> You are talking about Saturday the 17th not tomorrow, correct?



The $17 tickets are tomorrow, Friday the 16th.


----------



## mtsnow123 (Mar 15, 2018)

ski&soccermom said:


> The $17 tickets are tomorrow, Friday the 16th.



Ah yes. I was thinking $17 on the 17th, but it's $17 on the 16th. What a madhouse a Saturday would be for $17.


----------



## mtsnow123 (Mar 15, 2018)

ski&soccermom said:


> The $17 tickets are tomorrow, Friday the 16th.



Ah yes. I was thinking $17 on the 17th, but it's $17 on the 16th. What a madhouse a Saturday would be for $17.


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Mar 15, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> A 6-pack over on Sunbrook?  Talk about overkill.  I enjoy the Sunbrook terrain and its a nice escape from the crowds, but no way is a 6-person chair needed over there for 900 vertical feet.  A HSQ would be nice though.



Quads are the new doubles...


----------



## puckoach (Mar 21, 2018)

Was there Monday and Tuesday.  Booked on property for Monday night.  Given impending storm, I went early.

Tried to get included pass for Monday afternoon.  Online and a discussion indicated discount passes for on property stay.   Nope.   Half day $86.

Very few lifts operating.  Trails that dead end to no lift support not marked.  Great conditions.  Beautiful weather.  I  certainly enjoyed the skiing.  But not the guest relations or half mile walk back to lift.


----------



## sull1102 (Mar 21, 2018)

Where the hell did you go man? Can't imagine being half a mile from any operating lifts at Mount Snow except for maybe North Face.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## jaytrem (Mar 21, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Where the hell did you go man? Can't imagine being half a mile from any operating lifts at Mount Snow except for maybe North Face.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app



My best guess would be Sundance lodge.  Might be worse and ended up at Bears Crossing.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 21, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> My best guess would be Sundance lodge.  Might be worse and ended up at Bears Crossing.



Bears Crossing is well marked at the top, with a sign that essentially says "unless you own one of the condos or are staying at one of the condos in Bears Crossing, this isn't a lift served ski trail"

Sundance Lodge I could see, however in the past when Tumbleweed isn't running, patrol has been good about roping off the section below where Long John crosses....

Option 3 would be that they went to the bottom of Grommet, where this time of year they don't run the carpet but often keep the trail open for hiking access unless they've got the cats pushing some snow for new features, or possibly this week pushing some snow to get it taken apart and back to "normal" size after the big contest that was on it last weekend....


----------



## mtsnow123 (Mar 21, 2018)

I can only imagine going to the bottom of the North Face with no lifts. Guess I would take the snowmobile/maintenance trail that brings you to Sundance.

Sunbrook would also be rough, but a short hike up Beartrap hurt nobody.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 21, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> I can only imagine going to the bottom of the North Face with no lifts. Guess I would take the snowmobile/maintenance trail that brings you to Sundance.
> 
> Sunbrook would also be rough, but a short hike up Beartrap hurt nobody.




Both of those hikes out actually arent't as daunting as one would think based on service roads.  The hike out of the Northface back over to One More Time/Snowdance is basically the maybe 150ft or so elevation gain you see the road (the original Somerset Rd) make behind the bottom terminal of the Challenger lift, and then maybe a half mile basically flat section on over to One More Time.

The hike out of Sunbrook is similar, in that the only climbing one needs to do is up the bottom of Milky Way to the corner, and then there's a basically flat work road that takes you over to Fools Gold near where the Bear's Crossing Trail breaks off.  

I've done them both many times in the summer. Aside from having to make the hike in ski boots, given that both of those work roads usually see regular cat and/or snowmobile/ATV traffic, you'd be on packed snow for both, so it wouldn't be as daunting as trekking through deep snow


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## Jcb890 (Mar 21, 2018)

puckoach said:


> Was there Monday and Tuesday.  Booked on property for Monday night.  Given impending storm, I went early.
> 
> Tried to get included pass for Monday afternoon.  Online and a discussion indicated discount passes for on property stay.   Nope.   Half day $86.
> 
> Very few lifts operating.  Trails that dead end to no lift support not marked.  Great conditions.  Beautiful weather.  I  certainly enjoyed the skiing.  But not the guest relations or half mile walk back to lift.


Sounds like someone was ducking ropes maybe?

I have never seen the trails open that would allow you to get somewhere with a closed lift.  They always rope off the trail(s).


----------



## benski (Mar 21, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Both of those hikes out actually arent't as daunting as one would think based on service roads.  The hike out of the Northface back over to One More Time/Snowdance is basically the maybe 150ft or so elevation gain you see the road (the original Somerset Rd) make behind the bottom terminal of the Challenger lift, and then maybe a half mile basically flat section on over to One More Time.



My Grandfather tells me when he skied mount snow this was the only way to ski the north face and in particular Jaws. This has to be the early 60 or late 50's.


----------



## Newpylong (Mar 21, 2018)

I am pretty sure there was also a tow up the first uphill climb of Somerset road for a few years until.the double went in on the North Face too?


----------



## MountSnow (Mar 29, 2018)

Snowmaking Announcement for 3/31: 

As part of our commitment to delivering the best possible snow conditions to our guests, we’re going to go ahead and fire up the most powerful snowmaking system in the Northeast for a quick resurface on a few of our most popular trails, this Friday night into Saturday.

No, this isn’t an early April Fools joke, we just want to be sure some of your favorite trails will be skiing at the level you’ve come to expect from us for the last few weeks of the season. The plan is to run from around 2 am to around 10 am on Saturday morning on Canyon, Snowdance, Long John, and potentially one or two others.

This, paired with the amazing job our grooming fleet does each night, should set us up for an amazing Spring Festival Season here at Mount Snow, which continues this weekend with our 10th Annual Winter Brewers Festival, and caps off with next weekend’s Minus Zero Festival.


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 29, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Snowmaking Announcement for 3/31:
> 
> As part of our commitment to delivering the best possible snow conditions to our guests, we’re going to go ahead and fire up the most powerful snowmaking system in the Northeast for a quick resurface on a few of our most popular trails, this Friday night into Saturday.
> 
> ...



Wow.... pretty impressive. Guess some good comes out of seeing all those day passes on the jackets recently. Last weekend brought crowds that made Christmas week look like Thanksgiving. Keep up the good work!


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## Glenn (Mar 29, 2018)

Wow! That's impressive!


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## FBGM (Mar 30, 2018)

I sometimes burn $100 bills for fun too.


----------



## njdiver85 (Mar 30, 2018)

Pretty cool to hear that Mt Snow is resurfacing some of their trails.  Could they be the only mountain in the US that is making snow this weekend?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 30, 2018)

FBGM said:


> I sometimes burn $100 bills for fun too.



lol!


----------



## Jully (Mar 30, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> Pretty cool to hear that Mt Snow is resurfacing some of their trails.  Could they be the only mountain in the US that is making snow this weekend?



I would say almost definitely.


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## mtsnow123 (Mar 30, 2018)

Mount Snow: I see that there is netting up at the base area between the Grand Summit Express and the Bluebird, and an excavator digging. Any input as for what they're doing?


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## Glenn (Mar 30, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> Mount Snow: I see that there is netting up at the base area between the Grand Summit Express and the Bluebird, and an excavator digging. Any input as for what they're doing?



Pond skim.


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## mtsnow123 (Mar 30, 2018)

Glenn said:


> Pond skim.



That was last weekend.


----------



## sull1102 (Mar 30, 2018)

Minus Zero

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## ss20 (Mar 30, 2018)

FBGM said:


> I sometimes burn $100 bills for fun too.



That's hilarious.

I normally like mountains being aggressive with snowmaking...but when the masses flock to the trail at 10:30am when they turn off the guns I think they'll be disappointed when it's massive moguls.


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## skifree (Mar 30, 2018)

Beer fest and long john.
Buckle up if your on that run late afternoon


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## MommaBear (Mar 30, 2018)

Glenn said:


> Pond skim.



Filling it back in, I'm guessing.


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## jaytrem (Mar 30, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> I am pretty sure there was also a tow up the first uphill climb of Somerset road for a few years until.the double went in on the North Face too?



I was able to verify that with an "oldtimer" a few years ago.  Probably not too many people still skiing that remember it.


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## prsboogie (Mar 30, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Snowmaking Announcement for 3/31:
> 
> As part of our commitment to delivering the best possible snow conditions to our guests, we’re going to go ahead and fire up the most powerful snowmaking system in the Northeast for a quick resurface on a few of our most popular trails, this Friday night into Saturday.
> 
> ...


Cannot wait for the Brewers Fest and our first Easter on Snow! Great commitment to get to the finish line!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## mtsnow123 (Apr 2, 2018)

The equipment for Minus Zero is up. It was cool watching thewebcam progress from about 6:30 AM to around 10 AM when the tractor trailor moved in to hide the view of the main base area.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 3, 2018)

Conditions were a blast yesterday.

Yesterday was not busy by any means, but due to only the Bluebird running on the main face and no Sunbrook, there was still somewhat of a line at times for the Bluebird.  Not much, but a small line.

The North Face was basically ski-on all day.


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## MountSnow (Apr 4, 2018)

Sorry, just saw this. That was in preperation for the Minus Zero build-out.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 4, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Sorry, just saw this. That was in preperation for the Minus Zero build-out.


I kind of figured.  Wasn't complaining either, just providing intel.


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## MountSnow (Apr 4, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I kind of figured.  Wasn't complaining either, just providing intel.



You've been crushing the conditions reports this year! Keep up the good work. 
How many days are you up to?


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## prsboogie (Apr 4, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> You've been crushing the conditions reports this year! Keep up the good work.
> How many days are you up to?


I've been there 10 days this year and this past weekend was the best! Better than the 33" dump Saturday (just way too many people and lines) conditions were perfect and brewers Fest was a blast. Jeff Touhy Band always delivers and bluebird skies is always a bonus. 

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## MountSnow (Apr 4, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> I've been there 10 days this year and this past weekend was the best! Better than the 33" dump Saturday (just way too many people and lines) conditions were perfect and brewers Fest was a blast. Jeff Touhy Band always delivers and bluebird skies is always a bonus.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



It really was the perfect spring weekend. 
Live music, 100% open terrain, and tasty brews. 
What more could you ask for?


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 4, 2018)

steeper terrain :wink:


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## MountSnow (Apr 4, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> steeper terrain :wink:



We'll get right on that. Walt was actually working on that back in the day, but it didn't get approved for some reason...:wink:

"Considering his 10 year plan complete after only 8 years, Walt Schoenknecht pitched a new 20 year plan following the 1962-63 season. By the mid-1970s, he planned to have 21 double chairlifts, 6 gondolas, 4 tramways, and 6 trail complexes, with the capacity to handle 40,000 skiers per day. The overall estimated price tag for the development was $75-$85 million. As part of the conversation, he suggested using an atomic bomb to lower the base elevation of part of the mountain, in order to increase the vertical drop."

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Vermont/mtsnow.php


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## Jcb890 (Apr 4, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> You've been crushing the conditions reports this year! Keep up the good work.
> How many days are you up to?


Hmmm, let's see...
It looks like 16 times so far for the '17/'18 season with an additional 4 from last Spring.
And thank you, this thread has been great for us to share our info/reports and we all really appreciate the info you guys/gals come here and provide.



prsboogie said:


> I've been there 10 days this year and this past weekend was the best! Better than the 33" dump Saturday (just way too many people and lines) conditions were perfect and brewers Fest was a blast. Jeff Touhy Band always delivers and bluebird skies is always a bonus.


The 27" overnight was a Thursday I believe.  I do recall hearing that weekend was packed, but that's to be expected.  The Thursday wasn't packed and conditions were unreal.  Snow up to my chest! (and I'm 6'1")



MountSnow said:


> We'll get right on that. Walt was actually working on that back in the day, but it didn't get approved for some reason...:wink:
> 
> "Considering his 10 year plan complete after only 8 years, Walt Schoenknecht pitched a new 20 year plan following the 1962-63 season. By the mid-1970s, he planned to have 21 double chairlifts, 6 gondolas, 4 tramways, and 6 trail complexes, with the capacity to handle 40,000 skiers per day. The overall estimated price tag for the development was $75-$85 million. As part of the conversation, he suggested using an atomic bomb to lower the base elevation of part of the mountain, in order to increase the vertical drop."
> 
> http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Vermont/mtsnow.php


Can we get on that right away?!?!?!
That sounds awesome!  Well, maybe not the atomic bomb part, but digging out the base for more vert, I'm in!  Haha.


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## MountSnow (Apr 4, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Hmmm, let's see...
> It looks like 16 times so far for the '17/'18 season with an additional 4 from last Spring.
> And thank you, this thread has been great for us to share our info/reports and we all really appreciate the info you guys/gals come here and provide.
> 
> ...


----------



## ss20 (Apr 4, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> steeper terrain :wink:



Ripcord is the steepest snowmaking trail you'll find south of K...


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 4, 2018)

and I'd take the steeps of magic or the glades of gore over ripcord and the rest of the north face every single time.


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## ss20 (Apr 4, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and I'd take the steeps of magic or the glades of gore over ripcord and the rest of the north face every single time.



I'm with you on Magic...when there's enough snow for their steep stuff to be in play.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 4, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and I'd take the steeps of magic or the glades of gore over ripcord and the rest of the north face every single time.





ss20 said:


> I'm with you on Magic...when there's enough snow for their steep stuff to be in play.


I've never been to Magic, but looking at their trail map, I now want to.  It looks like it could be a fun place.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Apr 4, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and I'd take the steeps of magic or the glades of gore over ripcord and the rest of the north face every single time.



Holy crap do you want an award? You add so much great info to this thread. Did mount snow touch you as a child or something?


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## cdskier (Apr 4, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Can we get on that right away?!?!?!
> That sounds awesome!  Well, maybe not the atomic bomb part, but digging out the base for more vert, I'm in!  Haha.



And you can take all the dirt/rocks that you dig out from the base and pile it at the top to add even more vert! :wink:


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## prsboogie (Apr 4, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Hmmm, let's see...
> It looks like 16 times so far for the '17/'18 season with an additional 4 from last Spring.
> And thank you, this thread has been great for us to share our info/reports and we all really appreciate the info you guys/gals come here and provide.
> 
> ...


With Haystack having troubles, it would be interesting to have it back in the fold again, maybe finally connected??

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Jcb890 (Apr 4, 2018)

cdskier said:


> And you can take all the dirt/rocks that you dig out from the base and pile it at the top to add even more vert! :wink:


Didn't even think of that.  Great point!  Okay, this seriously needs to happen now.



prsboogie said:


> With Haystack having troubles, it would be interesting to have it back in the fold again, maybe finally connected??


1.53 miles from the closest trail to closest trail and 1.81 miles from the base of Sunbrook to the summit of Haystack... according to Google maps at least.

The length of the Bluebird is ~1.4 miles (7,385 ft), so the length of the lift ride wouldn't be that bad.  Would it be worth it though is the real question.  Any decent terrain over there?


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## machski (Apr 4, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> With Haystack having troubles, it would be interesting to have it back in the fold again, maybe finally connected??
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


It's the State of Vermont.  Read as: Never going to happen.

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## ss20 (Apr 4, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> 1.53 miles from the closest trail to closest trail and 1.81 miles from the base of Sunbrook to the summit of Haystack... according to Google maps at least.
> 
> The length of the Bluebird is ~1.4 miles (7,385 ft), so the length of the lift ride wouldn't be that bad.  Would it be worth it though is the real question.  Any decent terrain over there?



Connector lift?  Why not build it all out...as planned in the 80s...


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## ss20 (Apr 4, 2018)

machski said:


> It's the State of Vermont.  Read as: Never going to happen.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Bear habitat...allegedly...


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## Jcb890 (Apr 4, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Connector lift?  Why not build it all out...as planned in the 80s...
> 
> View attachment 23727


I'm in, let's go.


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## cdskier (Apr 4, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Bear habitat...allegedly...



Maybe the bears will relocate if people ask nicely...


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## MommaBear (Apr 4, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Maybe the bears will relocate if people ask nicely...



A few are already hanging near my condo complex.   I don't need them moving in.  :-o


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## sull1102 (Apr 5, 2018)

Witches would be the main and really only terrain over there that is worthwhile and can be interesting. Its a mini version of North Face if you will. The lower mountain area is a very well designed learning area that would take some load of Long John maybe?

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## MountSnow (Apr 5, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> With Haystack having troubles, it would be interesting to have it back in the fold again, maybe finally connected??
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



That's not something we're looking to do. If you remember, we were the ones who sold it last.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 5, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We'll get right on that. Walt was actually working on that back in the day, but it didn't get approved for some reason...:wink:
> 
> "Considering his 10 year plan complete after only 8 years, Walt Schoenknecht pitched a new 20 year plan following the 1962-63 season. By the mid-1970s, he planned to have 21 double chairlifts, 6 gondolas, 4 tramways, and 6 trail complexes, with the capacity to handle 40,000 skiers per day. The overall estimated price tag for the development was $75-$85 million. As part of the conversation, he suggested using an atomic bomb to lower the base elevation of part of the mountain, in order to increase the vertical drop."
> 
> http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Vermont/mtsnow.php


So... breaking ground for the 2018 season?


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## Pez (Apr 5, 2018)

Maybe Peak resorts can buy a bomb on the cheap from N Korea?


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## Jcb890 (Apr 5, 2018)

Pez said:


> Maybe Peak resorts can buy a bomb on the cheap from N Korea?


The Atomic bomb part of the idea won't work.  The rest of it I can buy into though.  Let's get digging!  Blasting is probably OK, but radiation isn't good for anyone.


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## 180 (Apr 10, 2018)

Any intel on Ripcord, is it bumpy or usaul piles of snow with slip slide between?  The Gladiator is this weekend.


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## drjeff (Apr 10, 2018)

180 said:


> Any intel on Ripcord, is it bumpy or usaul piles of snow with slip slide between?  The Gladiator is this weekend.


Center right was the usual slip and slide on Sunday. Far right, while the rock garden is a semi issue up high on the headwall, and the left side were good, steep bumps....

Arguably in my book, Jaws was the best bump run on the Northface last weekend.... Then again, since Jaws is my favorite run on the NF, I might be a bit biased! [emoji12] 

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## chuckstah (Apr 10, 2018)

Ripcord was dust on crust odd bumps today. Worst run of the day for me, but I'm no bumper.  Should be ok if it hits 60. 

Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## sull1102 (Apr 10, 2018)

Thrilled to see Snow extending the season another week to the 22nd

Sent from my Z983 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## mtsnow123 (Apr 11, 2018)

Yard Sale was a lot of fun Sunday. Sunbrook was also a blast Saturday, as no one was over there. Monday was absolutely wide open with some of the best riding I have done with non-fresh snow. I set a personal PR from top to bottom main face in 3.5 minutes Monday.


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## bheemsoth (Apr 12, 2018)

We were going to head up to Mt. Snow Saturday for what we expected to be a nice spring day in the 60's. 30's and rain coming off a freeze isn't quite what we were banking on.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 12, 2018)

bheemsoth said:


> We were going to head up to Mt. Snow Saturday for what we expected to be a nice spring day in the 60's. *30's and rain coming off a freeze isn't quite what we were banking on.*


Nowhere has that as the forecast for Saturday at Mt. Snow though...

Cloudy and mid-40's or high-30's with rain rolling in later on in the day/evening is what it looks like.
It does sound like tomorrow will be the nicest day though as opposed to Saturday, which is what it seemed most were predicting originally.


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## Smellytele (Apr 14, 2018)

Was at Mt Snow today. went into the Bullwheel. Is there always only one waitress?


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## Pez (Apr 14, 2018)

they are closed tomorrow and monday due to weather


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## asnowmobiler (Apr 14, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Was at Mt Snow today. went into the Bullwheel. Is there always only one waitress?




And what time is last call?
we waited ten minutes right against the bar, the two bartenders served two other people and completely ignored us, then they said the bar was closed before we even got one beer.
we got there at 3:10.


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## njdiver85 (Apr 14, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> And what time is last call?
> we waited ten minutes right against the bar, the two bartenders served two other people and completely ignored us, then they said the bar was closed before we even got one beer.
> we got there at 3:10.



Last call is at about 3:00 usually.


----------



## asnowmobiler (Apr 15, 2018)

Ok
I figured it would be 3:30, so now I understand why they shut it down.


----------



## Smellytele (Apr 15, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> Ok
> I figured it would be 3:30, so now I understand why they shut it down.



Still not sure why only 1 waitress on a Saturday.


----------



## njdiver85 (Apr 15, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Still not sure why only 1 waitress on a Saturday.



Probably due to end of season and reduced staff as a result.  Mountain was very quiet on Saturday.  They usually have more waitstaff.  That being said, even when they have the full contingent of staff, a busy weekend can overwhelm them leading to long wait times, slow to get your check, slow turnover of tables, etc.  This has been a pet peeve of mine for this whole season and something I hope they improve in the future.


----------



## drjeff (Apr 15, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> Probably due to end of season and reduced staff as a result.  Mountain was very quiet on Saturday.  They usually have more waitstaff.  That being said, even when they have the full contingent of staff, a busy weekend can overwhelm them leading to long wait times, slow to get your check, slow turnover of tables, etc.  This has been a pet peeve of mine for this whole season and something I hope they improve in the future.



Honestly, I'm guessing that they'd much rather folks have a few rounds at the base, than at the summit. 

I know that folks that drink at the base can certainly head back out on the hill if the lifts are still spinning, however, most folks, after they have their 2nd (or more) round(s) are done. And having them not having to descend from the top after a few, isn't a bad thing IMHO.

And as crazy as this may sound, I can honestly say that during ski season, I have actually never had a beer up at the Bullwheel!  The Station Taproom, and even Cuzzins, and now Canned, well that's an entirely different story!  Once I pick up a beer, my ski boots have been taken off and stowed away for the day. Just my personal 2 cents.....


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## sull1102 (Apr 15, 2018)

So we're at the midway point of April with some skiing still to be had, but I'm wondering if there's any talk about Sunbrook being replaced...


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## prsboogie (Apr 15, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> So we're at the midway point of April with some skiing still to be had, but I'm wondering if there's any talk about Sunbrook being replaced...


My guess is no. I would love to see a detach but I don't know if they can justify to expenditure. 

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## drjeff (Apr 15, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> So we're at the midway point of April with some skiing still to be had, but I'm wondering if there's any talk about Sunbrook being replaced...



Going to have to hear them FIRST (or possibly concurrently) expanding snowmaking in Sunbrook to 100% before the new lift talk happens....  HSQ? HS6? Bubble4? Bubble6? Who knows.....


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## prsboogie (Apr 15, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Going to have to hear them FIRST (or possibly concurrently) expanding snowmaking in Sunbrook to 100% before the new lift talk happens....  HSQ? HS6? Bubble4? Bubble6? Who knows.....


Full snowmaking and a HSQ would be a great combo!!

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## sull1102 (Apr 15, 2018)

So that's what is always said, and they seem pretty darn close. I looked around a lot this winter and it seemed like the Dippers was the only thing left for them to cover. 

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## Smellytele (Apr 16, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Honestly, I'm guessing that they'd much rather folks have a few rounds at the base, than at the summit.
> 
> I know that folks that drink at the base can certainly head back out on the hill if the lifts are still spinning, however, most folks, after they have their 2nd (or more) round(s) are done. And having them not having to descend from the top after a few, isn't a bad thing IMHO.
> 
> And as crazy as this may sound, I can honestly say that during ski season, I have actually never had a beer up at the Bullwheel!  The Station Taproom, and even Cuzzins, and now Canned, well that's an entirely different story!  Once I pick up a beer, my ski boots have been taken off and stowed away for the day. Just my personal 2 cents.....



If they have the bullwheel, man the bullwheel or don't have it. I understand last call at 3.


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## FBGM (Apr 16, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> Probably due to end of season and reduced staff as a result.  Mountain was very quiet on Saturday.  They usually have more waitstaff.  That being said, even when they have the full contingent of staff, a busy weekend can overwhelm them leading to long wait times, slow to get your check, slow turnover of tables, etc.  This has been a pet peeve of mine for this whole season and something I hope they improve in the future.



Thats wack. I like to get all tuned up at summit with shots and then use tourists as gates on the way down.


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## sull1102 (Apr 16, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Thats wack. I like to get all tuned up at summit with shots and then use tourists as gates on the way down.


Finally! You contributed to the forum, congrats. That was pretty funny.

Don't understand the anger aboutstatting the process of closing the Bullwheel at 3. Its April, crowds are lower and staff is limited. The employees have to do quite a bit to close up and then get down the mountain, go to the cash room, etc etc. It's a process and oh btw it's not like every bar on the mountain was closed if you're that desperate to get a beer an hour and change before you hop in the car.

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## mtsnow123 (Apr 16, 2018)

FBGM is a troll, I have blocked from seeing any of their posts. Also having FBGM as a Alpine Zone log in is not entirely appropriate. Maybe if this was Barstool Sports it would be okay. I have yet to see anything coming from them as constructive to this forum.


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## bdfreetuna (Apr 16, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> Also having FBGM as a Alpine Zone log in is not entirely appropriate.



Is this something I need a VPN to search for? I can think of several possibilities, none of which would be appropriate :lol:


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## mtsnow123 (Apr 16, 2018)

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FBGM

NSFW (language)


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## Jcb890 (Apr 18, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FBGM
> 
> NSFW (language)


Their username is the least offensive part of their shtick.


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## cdskier (Apr 18, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Their username is the least offensive part of their shtick.



Seriously...I would have never even known it meant something if someone didn't specifically call it out


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## sull1102 (Apr 18, 2018)

Anywayyyysssssss, riding the Bluebird right now and it looks and feels like February right now. Calling for a few inches tomorrow into Friday to touch things up for closing weekend. Really should open next weekend, just sayinggggggg

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## GregoryIsaacs (Apr 18, 2018)

Makes me think... whats the latest Mt. Snow has stayed open? This might be the year to break that record to put the icing on the cake of an unbelievable season


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## MountSnow (Apr 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Anywayyyysssssss, riding the Bluebird right now and it looks and feels like February right now. Calling for a few inches tomorrow into Friday to touch things up for closing weekend. Really should open next weekend, just sayinggggggg
> 
> Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app



All good things must come to an end!


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## GregoryIsaacs (Apr 18, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> All good things must come to an end!



one more song! one more song!


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## MountSnow (Apr 18, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Makes me think... whats the latest Mt. Snow has stayed open? This might be the year to break that record to put the icing on the cake of an unbelievable season



The latest closing (not counting Fountain Mountain) we have on record is May 14th, which is a LONG way away with temps in the 40s and 50s forcasted to settle in this weekend.


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## mtsnow123 (Apr 18, 2018)

My question would be how many people riding these days have season passes? If >50%, that's little money being made to pay workers, facilities, and energy. Also way less people coming up with spring sports started or the backyard effect.

I still ride, but only at mountains I have season passes at and I bring my lunch, that's zero money being made by the resort.


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## jaytrem (Apr 18, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> I still ride, but only at mountains I have season passes at and I bring my lunch, that's zero money being made by the resort.



You're a paying customer, you just paid in advance.


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## mtsnow123 (Apr 18, 2018)

When you have greater than 30 days at the mountain and have the 20s pass, I wouldn't say there's much to be made. Doing the math, it's $14/day equivalent.


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## sull1102 (Apr 18, 2018)

Hey I'll tell ya what there's a good amount of people out here. Bluebird's had a couple minute wait all morning, but probably due to reduced running speed and carriers. Looks like there's only 50 chairs up for today and that wind is a howling so I see why.

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## sull1102 (Apr 18, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> All good things must come to an end!


But one more weekend and we might actually get some real spring skiing in! Out of curiosity are there any other factors at play for closing date? I just can't imagine closing with this much snow still. I mean even the woods are in play.

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## mtsnow123 (Apr 18, 2018)

Plenty of resorts have closed with lots of snow. In Vermont for example Stowe, Bolton, Magic, Stratton, MRG. I was at both Bolton and Stowe last weekend for their closing weekends. No patches of dirt to be found. Could be a little different based on the non-frozen this week, but another 4+ inches last night and another 4+ by Friday. Should make for some good pow turns Friday morning at Sugarbush. Buying the season pass for next season there allows unlimited spring skiing and they're usually open till May 6th or so.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 18, 2018)

I completely forgot Stowe closed last weekend.  That's rather... shitty?
They must have been at or close to 100% open still.


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## mtsnow123 (Apr 18, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I completely forgot Stowe closed last weekend.  That's rather... shitty?
> They must have been at or close to 100% open still.



I was there Saturday, unfortunately the rain and abrupt drop in temperatures allowed for the sketchiest riding I have ever done. Imagine a skating rink on a hill. Because of that, anything ungroomed was closed.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 18, 2018)

mtsnow123 said:


> I was there Saturday, unfortunately the rain and abrupt drop in temperatures allowed for the sketchiest riding I have ever done. Imagine a skating rink on a hill. Because of that, anything ungroomed was closed.


I meant coverage-wise, sorry.  I would be willing to bet they have more than enough snow cover and base to go through the end of April.


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## sull1102 (Apr 18, 2018)

Yeah the Stowe crowd is not happy with their Vail overlords over this.  Back to Mount Snow, I'd argue if anyone can bring in the crowd late into the season it should be Snow. It's a whole lot closer to the cities than the other guys, the clientele is a little more "hardcore" than the Stratton crowd that generally doesn't care to ski after March 15th. Also Snow has the best park in the East, and this season quite possibly the country, and the park crowd will keep riding until you lock them out and even then they'll hike as long as you allow.

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## drjeff (Apr 18, 2018)

My hunch is that come Sunday evening and Monday, there will be cats on the hill pushing snow around to facilitate non snow season work and prep on the mountain bike trails for their opening in a bit over a month.

The reality is there's LOTS of on mountain stuff to do this summer. The newly widened section of Long John will have I believe about 10 feet of the blasted rock from last summer removed and trucked down to the Carinthia base area to act as fill around the new lodge under construction. That in itself is a big and time consuming project, and the sooner the snow is cleared, melted and the ground drys a bit, the sooner that project can commence... 

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## bdfreetuna (Apr 18, 2018)

Going up there tomorrow hope for a few inches of fresh tracks and North Face runs all day.

$38.99 for a ticket through the website/Liftopia is pretty good for less than 24 hours advance purchase.


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## MommaBear (Apr 18, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Going up there tomorrow hope for a few inches of fresh tracks and North Face runs all day.



Would you check back in tomorrow and let us know how it is?  Thinking about heading up for late morning Friday.  Wanted to head up tonight with the kid (he's on break) but he's sounding like he's done for the season.


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## sull1102 (Apr 18, 2018)

Also planning on going back up tomorrow and will try to report back. Today was interesting, if you stayed at Carinthia it was close to a great day, especially after the sun poked through here and there and softened things up just a bit. Went over to the Bluebird and wow things different. A lot less sun and the summit was in the clouds all day.  Summit was a cold windy place to be, but drop down twenty feet and things got better. That was the trend of the day, from say the top of Ego Alley down everything was great and can't wait to get back on it. Only issues were lift related, got caught on Nitro for 25 minutes and once it got going again it didn't run right, kept stopping and starting again. Bluebird was running only 50 chairs spaced out by about 10 seconds and half speed so there was almost always a crowd waiting to load. All in all a great day, happy to be going back tomorrow.

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## icecoast1 (Apr 18, 2018)

They could probably stay open as long as Killington if they knocked down all the features in carinthia but there isn't enough people that come to justify it.  There being a wait on the bluebird today was kind of deceiving because the north face was on wind hold and sun brook is closed to everybody is riding one lift.   If the weather looks good for next weekend it would be cool to see them open, there might be a few people that show up since most everyone else is closed but I understand if they don't.  They're not making money off the pass holders that are showing up


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## drjeff (Apr 19, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> They could probably stay open as long as Killington if they knocked down all the features in carinthia but there isn't enough people that come to justify it.  There being a wait on the bluebird today was kind of deceiving because the north face was on wind hold and sun brook is closed to everybody is riding one lift.   If the weather looks good for next weekend it would be cool to see them open, there might be a few people that show up since most everyone else is closed but I understand if they don't.  They're not making money off the pass holders that are showing up


Not a chance!! Too low an elevation and East facing trails in general work against that. 

Even when they push the snow from the last few jumps on Inferno all together to create a pile for their Memorial Day weekend Peace Pipe Jam, by the time they push all that snow out a few days before the event, they get a maybe 2 football field size patch of snow 3 to 4 feet deep that melts out in a few days after typically....

While there is a BIG amount of snow over at Carinthia, it's not nearly enough to hang with Killington season length wise on an actual real length trail basis unfortunately....

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## GregoryIsaacs (Apr 19, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Not a chance!! Too low an elevation and East facing trails in general work against that.
> 
> Even when they push the snow from the last few jumps on Inferno all together to create a pile for their Memorial Day weekend Peace Pipe Jam, by the time they push all that snow out a few days before the event, they get a maybe 2 football field size patch of snow 3 to 4 feet deep that melts out in a few days after typically....
> 
> ...



I do remember when they were open late season (april 20+) with carinthia-only skiing a couple years ago. This was when they put the mini halfpipe on mineshaft, which I think is the only pitch that can hold snow over there.


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## Glenn (Apr 19, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> I do remember when they were open late season (april 20+) with carinthia-only skiing a couple years ago. This was when they put the mini halfpipe on mineshaft, which I think is the only pitch that can hold snow over there.



That was a fun weekend. Sunny and warm. Made some turns with drjeff and some other friends. Enjoyed a beverage or two afterwards on the deck IRRC.


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## skimagic (Apr 19, 2018)

MommaBear said:


> Would you check back in tomorrow and let us know how it is?  Thinking about heading up for late morning Friday.  Wanted to head up tonight with the kid (he's on break) but he's sounding like he's done for the season.




Any info would be good, snow report lists 51 trails, but later, 40 trails as open.  Is jaws done? It's one of my favs.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 19, 2018)

skimagic said:


> Any info would be good, snow report lists 51 trails, but later, 40 trails as open.  Is jaws done? It's one of my favs.


I think Jaws and Ripcord over on the North Face have been closed for a couple of weeks, haven't they?


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## chuckstah (Apr 19, 2018)

I'm at Mount Snow now. Good cover everywhere. Carinthia softened up nicely. North face not at all. Main face is good once down a couple hundred yards. Ripcord was groomed.  It's definitely worth the trip this weekend. Even got into a couple glades with good cover. Should be even more terrain open with a bit of sun and warmer temps. Oh, and it's snowing out. 

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## icecoast1 (Apr 19, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I think Jaws and Ripcord over on the North Face have been closed for a couple of weeks, haven't they?



Probably done unless we get a a huge storm or it warms up and softens up, the un groomed stuff isn't really all that skiable right now due to the ice they got the other night.


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## sull1102 (Apr 19, 2018)

Same here, just heading home and the mountain is riding really nice despite no sun whatsoever. Carinthia was the place to be once again. Up at the summit there's a patch of ice here and there, but not an issue. The weekend could be absolutely epic here.

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## Jcb890 (Apr 19, 2018)

Killington was the plan on Sunday, but with them closing terrain to get an early start on upgrades, we might look to go elsewhere with more open terrain.

Who else is going to be there on the 22nd?


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## 180 (Apr 19, 2018)

Only ting closed ins Snowdon which is accessible with a 5 minute hike.  Otherwise, the closures are typical for this time of year.  We'll be there.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 19, 2018)

180 said:


> Only ting closed ins Snowdon which is accessible with a 5 minute hike.  Otherwise, the closures are typical for this time of year.  We'll be there.


I thought they usually keep Ramshead open at this time as well, no?


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## sull1102 (Apr 19, 2018)

Snow should be really close to 100% open minus Sunbrook this weekend with the woods still in play as of today.

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## bdfreetuna (Apr 19, 2018)

Just got back from Mount Snow

Mount Snow will/should be 95% open (besides Sun Brook) once things soften up.

Incredible base and coverage. Really looked more like February up there, felt like it too. I was lapping the Carinthia woods today, total coverage in there minus a couple sticks.

Would highly recommend anyone go to Mount Snow this weekend, with the warm temps and sunshine you'll be skiing most of the terrain.

Everything on North Face has more than enough snow for spring moguls... just a matter of recent ice storm and thaw/freeze up there today, ungroomed was pretty much bulletproof until after lunch.

If you go this weekend it'll be right on the money. Was hoping for more snow today than actually ended up falling -- but they don't need it.


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## machski (Apr 19, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I thought they usually keep Ramshead open at this time as well, no?


Nope, sometimes Skye/Bear but not this year, they are already pushing snow to get ready for the lift install and tunnel construction on the snowshed crossover.  Ramshead closes with snowshed.

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## Scruffy (Apr 19, 2018)

Any runs bumped up at Mt. Snow right now?


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## bdfreetuna (Apr 19, 2018)

Scruffy said:


> Any runs bumped up at Mt. Snow right now?



Plummet, Little Steep, a couple others on North Face. Yard Sale is looking good. Just needs to soften a little more.


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## chuckstah (Apr 19, 2018)

Yard sale was soft and skied great this afternoon

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## Shredder of Gnar (Apr 19, 2018)

Scruffy said:


> Any runs bumped up at Mt. Snow right now?



The bumps on upper and lower Exhibition should also be downright tasty with the sun on them on this weekend!


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## sull1102 (Apr 23, 2018)

This weekend was one of the all time greats. Patrol was aggressively dropping ropes on Sunday once things softened up. Not one cloud was seen on Sunday all day and the woods off Olympic were EPIC. I really wish I took some photos of the crowd, yesterday until about noon the Bluebird singles line went to were the corral for the Canyon quad usually begins. People were loving it out there and everyone was wishing for another weekend of skiing, but it seems there must be some other factors at play here because when people are parking down to Handle Rd at Carinthia you cannot tell me there aren't enough people interested in skiing. Either way, HUGE thanks to every staff member at Mount Snow for what was one of the greatest seasons yet!

Now that the season is over summer improvement news must be coming soon, unless we are "only" getting the new Carinthia base lodge and some chairs on Nitro.


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## MountSnow (Apr 23, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> This weekend was one of the all time greats. Patrol was aggressively dropping ropes on Sunday once things softened up. Not one cloud was seen on Sunday all day and the woods off Olympic were EPIC. I really wish I took some photos of the crowd, yesterday until about noon the Bluebird singles line went to were the corral for the Canyon quad usually begins. People were loving it out there and everyone was wishing for another weekend of skiing, but it seems there must be some other factors at play here because when people are parking down to Handle Rd at Carinthia you cannot tell me there aren't enough people interested in skiing. Either way, HUGE thanks to every staff member at Mount Snow for what was one of the greatest seasons yet!
> 
> Now that the season is over summer improvement news must be coming soon, unless we are "only" getting the new Carinthia base lodge and some chairs on Nitro.



It really comes down to attendence, as well as snowpack. While it looked like there were a lot of people skiing yesterday, that was really due to three factors. 1. Many more people come out for the last day of the season, which was why we had a busier Sunday than Saturday. 2. Everyone was condenced into that one lift while waiting for the North Face to thaw, so it made it look like there were more people here than there really were. 

As for the snowpack, have you seen the weather report for the coming week? Highs in the 60s and more than an inch of warm rain on Wednesday. We're going to lose snow quickly, and it's not financially viable to limp along on a few trails for one more weekend. We'd much rather go out on top with a fantastic weekend with great coverage, instead of dodging rocks on a couple of trails with very limited attendence. 

If you're looking to scratch the itch, Wildcat is still 100% open and in the process of planning a Cinco de Mayo party!


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## slatham (Apr 23, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> It really comes down to attendence, as well as snowpack. While it looked like there were a lot of people skiing yesterday, that was really due to three factors. 1. Many more people come out for the last day of the season, which was why we had a busier Sunday than Saturday. 2. Everyone was condenced into that one lift while waiting for the North Face to thaw, so it made it look like there were more people here than there really were.
> 
> As for the snowpack, have you seen the weather report for the coming week? Highs in the 60s and more than an inch of warm rain on Wednesday. We're going to lose snow quickly, and it's not financially viable to limp along on a few trails for one more weekend. We'd much rather go out on top with a fantastic weekend with great coverage, instead of dodging rocks on a couple of trails with very limited attendence.
> 
> If you're looking to scratch the itch, Wildcat is still 100% open and in the process of planning a Cinco de Mayo party!



Not to mention that by planning to open next weekend you make a huge bet on the weather over the weekend cooperating, and odds are it won't be as nice as this past weekend. Time to move on to spring sports (or Wildcat)......


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## MountSnow (Apr 24, 2018)

*SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT*
You only have seven days remaining to lock in the best prices of the season on 2018/19 Peak Passes. 
Prices increase April 30th at midnight! 
Details at www.mountsnow.com/passes


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## heiusa (Apr 24, 2018)

Thank you for the reminder / alert.


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## prsboogie (Apr 24, 2018)

Shameless request, as a third season peaks pass holder I would love to a family pack pass! There are deals for most age groups except for Adults. I understand the thinking that offering reduced price pass to a 20something will increase the number of passes sold and inturn increase Food and Beverage purchases. I'm thinking along the lines of $1900 for a family of 4 with additional kids passes for 300? Just a thought [emoji6]

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## Smellytele (Apr 24, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> Shameless request, as a third season peaks pass holder I would love to a family pack pass! There are deals for most age groups except for Adults. I understand the thinking that offering reduced price pass to a 20something will increase the number of passes sold and inturn increase Food and Beverage purchases. I'm thinking along the lines of $1900 for a family of 4 with additional kids passes for 300? Just a thought [emoji6]
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



isn't 1900 more than it is now (or before the recent increase) for a family of 4?
I


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## prsboogie (Apr 24, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> isn't 1900 more than it is now (or before the recent increase) for a family of 4?
> I


2119 for the Explorer

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## drjeff (Apr 25, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> 2119 for the Explorer
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Considering that up until 2 seasons ago, that 2 adult and 2 youth explorer passes (the youth used to be $750ish!!) used to run my family over 3000, and that at that time, the only way for people who bought Peak pass products to get unlimited Mount Snow access was to get the explorer, whereas now all of their passes get unlimited access to Mount Snow and their other resorts, and anecdotally at least it sure seems that crowd volume at Mount Snow at least is up noticeably with more people with passes than before, I doubt, and honestly hope that you won't see Peak do something like that, or if they did, go back to where there are limited days at Mount Snow on their passes...

About a month ago when my wife and I bought our Explorers for next season, plus 2 of the $500 dining cards (they get you $600 in food value), we both commented on how we were able to get all 4 passes for the family, plus the 2 food dining cards for less than the 4 passes alone used to cost us.  Add in all of the on mountain items we've seen under Peak's ownership, and frankly we feel that we're getting a ton of value at the price point currently...


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## sull1102 (Apr 25, 2018)

As a Peak Pass holder for the past three years, admittedly as a 20-something on the Drifter,  I've exclusively gone to Mount Snow because of the under 1 hour ride time. I'm honestly not super interested in any other option except maybe Hunter, but as I say that I think about the handful of times I considered driving there and went to Snow instead. If I'm going to go off pass I'll go to Stratton, K, or Jay, maybe Magic. What I would like to see is a return to limit Saturdays for Peak Pass holders, or just a general limit but have a cheaper pass that is only for Mount Snow that you sell to us more local folks.


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## Smellytele (Apr 25, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> As a Peak Pass holder for the past three years, admittedly as a 20-something on the Drifter,  I've exclusively gone to Mount Snow because of the under 1 hour ride time. I'm honestly not super interested in any other option except maybe Hunter, but as I say that I think about the handful of times I considered driving there and went to Snow instead. If I'm going to go off pass I'll go to Stratton, K, or Jay, maybe Magic. What I would like to see is a return to limit Saturdays for Peak Pass holders, or just a general limit but have a cheaper pass that is only for Mount Snow that you sell to us more local folks.



I am glad that a lot of peaks pass holders only ski at snow so I can actually get runs in and not stand in line, get a seat at the bar and lodge at Wildcat.


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## sull1102 (Apr 25, 2018)

That's always been the case at Wildcat and always will be. Very few are driving that far and past that many other options to ski there. I say this as someone who loves the Cat. 

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## Smellytele (Apr 25, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> That's always been the case at Wildcat and always will be. Very few are driving that far and past that many other options to ski there. I say this as someone who loves the Cat.
> 
> Sent from my Z983 using AlpineZone mobile app



I have been to Mount Snow twice this year. Once I wish I hadn't in December (way too many people trying to ride the Blue bird), the other was okay a couple of weeks ago (just lapped trails over on the Northside). It is 30 mins closer to me then Wildcat but Wildcat is worth the extra 30 mins.


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## bdfreetuna (Apr 25, 2018)

Well Mount Snow is the closest "major resort" to me, I'm just chiming in to compliment them on the season. The new snowmaking system showed up everyone else early on, so I had another good early season choice. Late season everyone got lucky with snow this year but appreciate Mount Snow being one of those who stayed open. Would like to see the season go another week but I realize it's a gamble every year.

I'll be honest I will probably continue to mostly go elsewhere mid-season (mainly due to the variety-pack passes/cards I use) but the fact that Mount Snow is making a name for themselves early and late season means I'll be up there more often.


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## xlr8r (Apr 25, 2018)

With the new base lodge coming next year to Carinthia, does Mount Snow plan to return a few trails back to not having terrain park features over there.  As I would think a lot of people will want to use the new lodge instead of the main base area, but not necessarily ski parks.


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## sull1102 (Apr 25, 2018)

xlr8r said:


> With the new base lodge coming next year to Carinthia, does Mount Snow plan to return a few trails back to not having terrain park features over there.  As I would think a lot of people will want to use the new lodge instead of the main base area, but not necessarily ski parks.


Would really hope this does not happen as the park trails are very well used almost all season. There really aren't any particular trails that stand as easy to return to regular skiing without crossing a park or really hurting the parks and taking away a big piece. 

As the park area, Carinthia contributes WAY more than it would as just another trail pod closed midweek late and early season. Plus reintroducing parks to say Roller Coaster might not go great and would be very tough for the park crew to manage. 

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## prsboogie (Apr 26, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Considering that up until 2 seasons ago, that 2 adult and 2 youth explorer passes (the youth used to be $750ish!!) used to run my family over 3000, and that at that time, the only way for people who bought Peak pass products to get unlimited Mount Snow access was to get the explorer, whereas now all of their passes get unlimited access to Mount Snow and their other resorts, and anecdotally at least it sure seems that crowd volume at Mount Snow at least is up noticeably with more people with passes than before, I doubt, and honestly hope that you won't see Peak do something like that, or if they did, go back to where there are limited days at Mount Snow on their passes...
> 
> About a month ago when my wife and I bought our Explorers for next season, plus 2 of the $500 dining cards (they get you $600 in food value), we both commented on how we were able to get all 4 passes for the family, plus the 2 food dining cards for less than the 4 passes alone used to cost us.  Add in all of the on mountain items we've seen under Peak's ownership, and frankly we feel that we're getting a ton of value at the price point currently...


I am quite aware that it would never happen, the prices are fine. It is more a statement against the reduced price of the other groups. I personally would have never paid near 3k for 4 passes ( honestly couldn't afford to) to ski just Mount Snow, or any resort for that matter. We would likely be at Ragged if prices went up much more than they did, as is I didn't buy a pass for my wife this coming season based on the few number of days she skied this season. 

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## mtsnow123 (Apr 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Would really hope this does not happen as the park trails are very well used almost all season. There really aren't any particular trails that stand as easy to return to regular skiing without crossing a park or really hurting the parks and taking away a big piece.
> 
> As the park area, Carinthia contributes WAY more than it would as just another trail pod closed midweek late and early season. Plus reintroducing parks to say Roller Coaster might not go great and would be very tough for the park crew to manage.
> 
> Sent from my Z983 using AlpineZone mobile app



I would second this response. Being a Mount Snow rider since 2004, I have seen the growth of Carinthia parks from the bottom up. Its success has been based upon the ridership that freestyle members of the community bring to it. You can usually hear the typical responses from park riders complaining about people cutting across jumps or drop ins who do not plan on hitting a feature. If they planned on returning a trail to non-parks, I would assume a greater issue with this and assuming further issues, worst case: increased injury. Carinthia is a well known destination across the East coast, and even U.S. With knowledge there is a brand new lodge to watch people shred the park and hit the Junkyard, it's just another pull to bring in more riders.


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## sull1102 (Apr 26, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> I am quite aware that it would never happen, the prices are fine. It is more a statement against the reduced price of the other groups. I personally would have never paid near 3k for 4 passes ( honestly couldn't afford to) to ski just Mount Snow, or any resort for that matter. We would likely be at Ragged if prices went up much more than they did, as is I didn't buy a pass for my wife this coming season based on the few number of days she skied this season.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


As someone who can only afford to get a pass because of the Drifter option at $399 I say no thanks to this going against the cheaper passes. I love it and am glad the offer such an option because I would never buy a full price adult pass, they're simply insanely priced. And honestly if you want the sport(s) and industry to grow or even maintain the existing base then you need these 20-something passes, without them you would see less improvements, minimal if not negative growth for skier numbers, and eventually less and less skiers as the clientele ages out of the sport.

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## drjeff (Apr 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> As someone who can only afford to get a pass because of the Drifter option at $399 I say no thanks to this going against the cheaper passes. I love it and am glad the offer such an option because I would never buy a full price adult pass, they're simply insanely priced. And honestly if you want the sport(s) and industry to grow or even maintain the existing base then you need these 20-something passes, without them you would see less improvements, minimal if not negative growth for skier numbers, and eventually less and less skiers as the clientele ages out of the sport.
> 
> Sent from my Z983 using AlpineZone mobile app



The reality is if one looks at the NSAA annual skier visits data, total annual visits for almost 30 years now have been essentially in the mid 50 million visits range, with a couple of years around 60 million and a couple of years around 50 million. Those outlier years are related to either really good snow years across much of the country or really poor years, to at least a decent segment of the country.

Over that time, we've seen the age of passes where they were at times in the $1000 or so range for many areas, on down the the cheaper passes.  Regardless of what the pass prices were, the overall skier visits annually have stayed fairly constant. 

So while pass prices do have some effect on certain demographics, the long term data shows that it's not a big influence as a whole for the industry.....

http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf


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## prsboogie (Apr 26, 2018)

drjeff said:


> So while pass prices do have some effect on certain demographics, the long term data shows that it's not a big influence as a whole for the industry.....
> 
> http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf



Basically comes down to those who are going to ski are going to ski, those who will not won't.

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## cdskier (Apr 26, 2018)

drjeff said:


> The reality is if one looks at the NSAA annual skier visits data, total annual visits for almost 30 years now have been essentially in the mid 50 million visits range, with a couple of years around 60 million and a couple of years around 50 million. Those outlier years are related to either really good snow years across much of the country or really poor years, to at least a decent segment of the country.
> 
> Over that time, we've seen the age of passes where they were at times in the $1000 or so range for many areas, on down the the cheaper passes.  Regardless of what the pass prices were, the overall skier visits annually have stayed fairly constant.
> 
> ...



"Visits" data doesn't tell the whole story. The real story is when resorts look at their individual demographics to see WHO is buying those tickets and passes. If you see less and less 20/30 Y/Os and more and more 40/50/60/70 Y/Os...you have an issue for the future. That's the type of data many of us don't have access to. Perhaps if some of these cheaper passes for people in their 20s were never created, you could potentially see those numbers of visits drop eventually. Just because the data shows they didn't drop yet, doesn't mean they wouldn't have if the resorts didn't take proactive action to increase visits at the lower age range.

Additionally, you have to question the accuracy of visit data a bit. It wasn't until relativiely recently that you could really accurately track "visits" for pass holders. Years ago many resorts would just assume a certain number of visits for each pass they sold. Now you can get exact data with all the electronic tracking options either via barcodes or RFID.


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## sull1102 (Apr 26, 2018)

cdskier, I agree completely. That was sort of what I was getting at. Yes those numbers have stayed basically the same, but look around out there on the slopes. The median age is slipping north, the big exception being Carinthia(and other parks) were the median age in the parking lot or on Nitro is probably under 30 80% of the season. These 20-something passes keep those numbers steady, without them you would lose some of those numbers, personally I'd go from a 30+ days on snow season down to 10-15 max. Lose us now and when we have kids we won't come back for those rentals, lessons, and condos. That's where this all leads. If you hook us now, I ski my 20's at a Peaks resort as a Drifter in 15 years when time comes to buy a vacation home I'm going to go look at the Carinthia condos. Get rid of the Drifter and I go to Stratton on a 20-something pass, maybe then in 15 years I'm looking in the village up there because of those memories from "the glory years."


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## cdskier (Apr 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> These 20-something passes keep those numbers steady, without them you would lose some of those numbers, personally I'd go from a 30+ days on snow season down to 10-15 max. Lose us now and when we have kids we won't come back for those rentals, lessons, and condos. That's where this all leads. If you hook us now, I ski my 20's at a Peaks resort as a Drifter in 15 years when time comes to buy a vacation home I'm going to go look at the Carinthia condos. Get rid of the Drifter and I go to Stratton on a 20-something pass, maybe then in 15 years I'm looking in the village up there because of those memories from "the glory years."



You pretty much described my situation. If Sugarbush hadn't started offering a "For 20s" pass, I can almost guarantee I wouldn't be a passholder there today. Sure I would still be skiing, but it would be just day trips and a few long weekend trips thrown in. My season day total would probably be half of what it is now. And not only did the "cheap" pass hook me on being a passholder, but it also is what directly led to me buying a condo in VT. I am pretty much literally the poster child for what the people that came up with those passes wanted to see happen...


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## Smellytele (Apr 27, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> cdskier, I agree completely. That was sort of what I was getting at. Yes those numbers have stayed basically the same, but look around out there on the slopes. The median age is slipping north, the big exception being Carinthia(and other parks) were the median age in the parking lot or on Nitro is probably under 30 80% of the season. These 20-something passes keep those numbers steady, without them you would lose some of those numbers, personally I'd go from a 30+ days on snow season down to 10-15 max. Lose us now and when we have kids we won't come back for those rentals, lessons, and condos. That's where this all leads. If you hook us now, I ski my 20's at a Peaks resort as a Drifter in 15 years when time comes to buy a vacation home I'm going to go look at the Carinthia condos. Get rid of the Drifter and I go to Stratton on a 20-something pass, maybe then in 15 years I'm looking in the village up there because of those memories from "the glory years."



I wonder if you'll still hit the park in 15 years. If not why get a place next to it?


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## drjeff (Apr 27, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> I wonder if you'll still hit the park in 15 years. If not why get a place next to it?



So the future kids can.....

Honestly that's one of the main reasons my wife and I bought our place 11 years ago when our kids were 1 and 3... It was more about future experiences for them and creating family memories than our own personal enjoyment


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## sull1102 (Apr 27, 2018)

LoL, oh I will be. Might not be launching off on a Inferno, but maybe I'll be watching a son/daughter on Grommet and then I can watch them from my imaginary condo's patio overlooking the park . I see tons of older skiers in the park, unfortunately half the time risking themselves cutting under a jump it seems, but a lot of older guys like a few seconds of air time from what I can see. Surely you can see how much of a success Carinthia is and how much it contributes to the mountain as a whole.

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## Smellytele (Apr 27, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> LoL, oh I will be. Might not be launching off on a Inferno, but maybe I'll be watching a son/daughter on Grommet and then I can watch them from my imaginary condo's patio overlooking the park . I see tons of older skiers in the park, unfortunately half the time risking themselves cutting under a jump it seems, but a lot of older guys like a few seconds of air time from what I can see. Surely you can see how much of a success Carinthia is and how much it contributes to the mountain as a whole.
> 
> Sent from my Z983 using AlpineZone mobile app



How popular are parks outside of Mt Snow? Most places I frequent don't even have parks and the ones that do aren't usually that busy.


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## drjeff (Apr 27, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> How popular are parks outside of Mt Snow? Most places I frequent don't even have parks and the ones that do aren't usually that busy.



There was an article in Ski Area Management Magazine a year or 2 ago about what makes a park an asset verses just a trail covered with a bunch of expensive snow and not enough use to really justify the costs associated with the park.

What it boiled down too, is successful parks have figured out the proper combination of marketing, progression as the season goes on, variety to cater to the beginner to advanced level park user, and regular feedback between the park users and park builders and crew that maintains the park daily. It can be an asset for sure when the commitment from the mountain is there and the essentially daily effort to keep things interesting for the clientele is there.

Unsuccessful parks tend to be one where they're the same park, just with a fresh coat of corduroy every day of the season, and little to no interest from the mountain in hearing feedback from the users of the park.

Mount Snow does the park thing about as well as any resort in North America, but it also didn't happen overnight


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## machski (Apr 27, 2018)

I hate to say it, but the park thing is already a trend that is on its way down.  Much like the mogul scene used to be, parks will end up the same.  Sure, we still have mogul comps and young skiers coming up as such, but it is not the scene it was in the 80's and 90's.  I have already started to see parks drop off.  Used to be the place to be seen on mountain a decade ago, now mostly just frequented/seen by those skiers/riders inclined to it and by no one else.  It will become a sideshow, just like pro comp level bump runs now.  Half pipes even more so now.

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## SkiingInABlueDream (Apr 27, 2018)

^^ what's replacing it then?


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## icecoast1 (Apr 27, 2018)

machski said:


> I hate to say it, but the park thing is already a trend that is on its way down.  Much like the mogul scene used to be, parks will end up the same.  Sure, we still have mogul comps and young skiers coming up as such, but it is not the scene it was in the 80's and 90's.  I have already started to see parks drop off.  Used to be the place to be seen on mountain a decade ago, now mostly just frequented/seen by those skiers/riders inclined to it and by no one else.  It will become a sideshow, just like pro comp level bump runs now.  Half pipes even more so now.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



It's sad but true.  Mountains seem to be uninterested in building serious parks anymore.   The US Open even had to go out west.  I don't think there's a lack of interest though.  Carinthia always seems popping to me,  if you put in the time and effort into your parks and get creative, people will come.   The problem is too many mountains would rather cater to the high end clientele than the park rats and thus their "parks" just become sideshows.   Carinthia is a good example of what can happen when you actually try.   Who knows where it sits on Mount Snows list of $ makers but its certainly proof that there is interest in park skiing/riding


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## Smellytele (Apr 27, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> It's sad but true.  Mountains seem to be uninterested in building serious parks anymore.   The US Open even had to go out west.  I don't think there's a lack of interest though.  Carinthia always seems popping to me,  if you put in the time and effort into your parks and get creative, people will come.   The problem is too many mountains would rather cater to the high end clientele than the park rats and thus their "parks" just become sideshows.   Carinthia is a good example of what can happen when you actually try.   Who knows where it sits on Mount Snows list of $ makers but its certainly proof that there is interest in park skiing/riding



I wonder what the insurance cost is if you have a park. Is it more? it seems more people get hurt in the park then while on other trails. At least it seems that way at Pats Peak. I could be wrong but I see more sleds coming from the park than from other trails.


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## MommaBear (Apr 27, 2018)

drjeff said:


> So the future kids can.....
> 
> Honestly that's one of the main reasons my wife and I bought our place 11 years ago when our kids were 1 and 3... It was more about future experiences for them and creating family memories than our own personal enjoyment



Ditto.  Thou they've seem to have moved on to other things....I still enjoy my place, all 4 seasons.


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## machski (Apr 27, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> I wonder what the insurance cost is if you have a park. Is it more? it seems more people get hurt in the park then while on other trails. At least it seems that way at Pats Peak. I could be wrong but I see more sleds coming from the park than from other trails.


It probably adds some cost insurance-wise.  I know when SR was installing the lighting for night skiing, it was when T72 was built as the signature park (and lower 3-D became the mid level park).  It was asked if the mountain would add lights to those trails to increase night skiing interest.  We were told they wanted to until insurance stepped in due to risk with the low light (if you have skied SR at night, you know the lighting on Escapade and Dreamaker is marginally adequate) and the big features.  So only the beginner South ridge park is lit.

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## ss20 (Apr 27, 2018)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> ^^ what's replacing it then?



Trees.


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## Newpylong (Apr 29, 2018)

In my experience (MountainGuard) there are no insurance increases for having a park.

Insurance company requires proper signage at the top and throughout the park, and that signage just changed in the last few years - PITA.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Apr 30, 2018)

Big shout out to Southern VT topping the list of seasonal snowfall to date (Elevation is obviously not taken into effect I assume).... I see you Wilmington!


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## machski (Apr 30, 2018)

It is on Mount Washington.  But most NOAA reporting points are not at the summit or elevation.

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## Smellytele (Apr 30, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Big shout out to Southern VT topping the list of seasonal snowfall to date (Elevation is obviously not taken into effect I assume).... I see you Wilmington!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 23856



Randolph, NH actually topped the list for a town in Northern NE.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 30, 2018)

The marketing folks at Wildcat need to stay on top of things.  They are advertising 173" for the season, where as Pinkham Notch on that list is 187".   With a Jay Peak ruler at 4K feet, Cat probably had 275". 

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## Jcb890 (Apr 30, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> The marketing folks at Wildcat need to stay on top of things.  They are advertising 173" for the season, where as Pinkham Notch on that list is 187".   With a Jay Peak ruler at 4K feet, Cat probably had 275".
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


Jay Peak got 450" of snow this year!!!


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## MountSnow (Apr 30, 2018)

*Shameless Plug Alert*
Today is the last day to save on 2018/19 Peak Passes. 
Head over to www.mountsnow.com/passes

Bonus points if you can guess where this was taken this year.


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## MountSnow (Jul 9, 2018)

Been a little quiet on here recently. Must be the weather!

Does anyone have any questions or comments for us?


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## Jcb890 (Jul 9, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Been a little quiet on here recently. Must be the weather!
> 
> Does anyone have any questions or comments for us?


Sure!
Can we extend the Spring Season Pass Pricing for those of us who were asleep at the wheel earlier this off-season (now up $100)?
Can I be 29 for a day to get the Drifter Pass instead?

I'm sure we all know the answers, but you asked for it!


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 9, 2018)

Any chance we could have a season pass-holders brush cutting day? 

Im dying to cut some lines in Plunge!


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## Jcb890 (Jul 9, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Any chance we could have a season pass-holders brush cutting day?
> 
> Im dying to cut some lines in Plunge!


I bet it is a crap-load of work to cut glade lines.  I wonder how much effort would be required to widen some of those woods over on the North Face... guessing a lot.

Is that how most mountains do it?  Have their season pass-holders or a community type work day?  Or do actual mountain employees do the work?


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## thebigo (Jul 9, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Been a little quiet on here recently. Must be the weather!
> 
> Does anyone have any questions or comments for us?



Any chance you could persuade your colleagues at Crotched and Wildcat to open similar lines of communication?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 9, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> I bet it is a crap-load of work to cut glade lines.  I wonder how much effort would be required to widen some of those woods over on the North Face... guessing a lot.
> 
> Is that how most mountains do it?  Have their season pass-holders or a community type work day?  Or do actual mountain employees do the work?



I couldn't see plunge as being more than 200 feet of vertical... Id say a couple decent lines could get done by a couple willing/abled bodies in one weekend.

I do remember a couple of years back when the mountain was waiting for EB-5 they had a whole stagnant workforce that was used to clear some trees throughout the mountain and it made a world of difference


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## icecoast1 (Jul 9, 2018)

Are there any other major capital projects going on this summer besides the new carinthia lodge?  Any trails getting snowmaking added?


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## laxski (Jul 9, 2018)

Or more lift capacity out of Carinthia with the New Lodge. And hopefully a high speed in Sunbrook Soon.....


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## drjeff (Jul 9, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> Are there any other major capital projects going on this summer besides the new carinthia lodge?  Any trails getting snowmaking added?


Being up at the mountain the last few days, from the perspective of my eyes (and telescope from my deck - going to take the Bluebird up to the Bullwheel Wednesday afternoon to get a closer look higher up) all of the major work is by far and away over at the Carinthia base area!! The new lodge looks MASSIVE as you drive up the entry road, and the old lodge is now just a pile of rubble (guess the one time plan mentioned to allow the local fire departments to burn it down in a training exercise vs just demo it with heavy construction equipment never materialized) 

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## jaytrem (Jul 10, 2018)

A bunch of the lodge rubble has been move over to the main face below Yardsale.  I'm guessing it's to flatten out the that pitch and hopefully spread people out a bit.


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## ironhippy (Jul 10, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Is that how most mountains do it?  Have their season pass-holders or a community type work day?  Or do actual mountain employees do the work?



My local hill has volunteer work days in the fall to brush cut and clear deadfall from the glades.

They are not as well attended as we would hope, everyone just wants to cut new trails and are disappointed when they find out it's a lot of work to maintain all the glades we have and we won't cut new ones unless we have cleaned the existing ones (which never really happens, we run out of time before we run out of work)


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Any chance we could have a season pass-holders brush cutting day?
> 
> Im dying to cut some lines in Plunge!



It's something we've considered, but we're working through the liability side of things first. 
Maybe next summer!


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

thebigo said:


> Any chance you could persuade your colleagues at Crotched and Wildcat to open similar lines of communication?



We'll pass along the note, but it's really up to them.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> I couldn't see plunge as being more than 200 feet of vertical... Id say a couple decent lines could get done by a couple willing/abled bodies in one weekend.
> 
> I do remember a couple of years back when the mountain was waiting for EB-5 they had a whole stagnant workforce that was used to clear some trees throughout the mountain and it made a world of difference



It's a TON of work, and hard work at that. You need to really have people that are accostomed to putting in long days working outdoors with their hands. Not saying you guys aren't, but just saying it's not as easy as just cutting a few lines here and there.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

laxski said:


> Or more lift capacity out of Carinthia with the New Lodge. And hopefully a high speed in Sunbrook Soon.....



The Sunbrook Lift is the next logical lift we'd replace. 

We're also working on some plans to be able to expand the capacity of the existing lifts at the Carinthia Base Area, but that won't happen for this season.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> A bunch of the lodge rubble has been move over to the main face below Yardsale.  I'm guessing it's to flatten out the that pitch and hopefully spread people out a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 23939



Bingo! The plan is to help expand that pinch point and help with the flow of people back to the base area. We figured it would be a fitting burial for some of the old Carinthia Lodge.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Sure!
> Can we extend the Spring Season Pass Pricing for those of us who were asleep at the wheel earlier this off-season (now up $100)?
> Can I be 29 for a day to get the Drifter Pass instead?
> 
> I'm sure we all know the answers, but you asked for it!



Nope! 
We gave a ton of time and notice for everyone. 

Sorry man.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> Are there any other major capital projects going on this summer besides the new carinthia lodge?  Any trails getting snowmaking added?



Not this season, but we're working through the process to begin expanding snowmaking once again potentially next summer. 

That being said, we've put in a ton of thought and planning into how we run our new West Lake System, and we're going to come out of the gates swinging once we get the temps this year. Talking with some of the guys on snowmaking, it's going to be amazing to see how fast we plan to open trails this year once we get the temps.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

This is fun! 
Who else has questions for us?


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## SLyardsale (Jul 10, 2018)

How about a new web cam at Carinthia pointed at the new lodge so we can watch the progress?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 10, 2018)

How many restaurants/bars will be in the new lodge? Have any names/themes been decided yet?


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

SLyardsale said:


> How about a new web cam at Carinthia pointed at the new lodge so we can watch the progress?



That's something we've thought of and probably will do in the future. 
Right now, there's really nothing good to mount it to and we don't currently have a good internet line out there.


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> How many restaurants/bars will be in the new lodge? Have any names/themes been decided yet?



We'll be addressing that soon in an upcoming blog post.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 10, 2018)

Whats the deal with the grown in "horseshoe" shaped trail near the top of the dippers? Is that an old extension of the haystack ridge trail?


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## MountSnow (Jul 10, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Whats the deal with the grown in "horseshoe" shaped trail near the top of the dippers? Is that an old extension of the haystack ridge trail?



You stumped me on that one. Let me try to find out. The ridge trail still exists though, but it gets a bit tough in the summer with the swamp in the middle of it. It's a great ski tour in the winter though.


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## Smellytele (Jul 10, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> How many restaurants/bars will be in the new lodge? Have any names/themes been decided yet?



Joey's and the breakfast place Tony Bagga Donuts


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## jaytrem (Jul 10, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Whats the deal with the grown in "horseshoe" shaped trail near the top of the dippers? Is that an old extension of the haystack ridge trail?



I'm about 90% sure you're correct.  The ridge trail existed before the Sunbrook expansion.  I remember hiking it a few times before the expansion but that was before google maps, so not 100% sure.  Funny, I don't even remember exactly where the entrance was.


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## laxski (Jul 10, 2018)

Looking forward to the all-out Snowmaking assault in hopefully late October this year. Any more info about the plan if the weather is good for early season Snowmaking??


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## drjeff (Jul 10, 2018)

laxski said:


> Looking forward to the all-out Snowmaking assault in hopefully late October this year. Any more info about the plan if the weather is good for early season Snowmaking??


My hunch is another 3-4 trails on opening day... Last year they had an idea of what on paper the system potentially could do in certain temps, but weren't totally sure. Now they have multiple thousands of hours of actual data and air/water flow amounts through their gun aresenal so they can run the system at actual maximum capacity for the snowmaking conditions from the 1st hour or so they fire it up this Fall!! :Snowgun:

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## MountSnow (Jul 11, 2018)

laxski said:


> Looking forward to the all-out Snowmaking assault in hopefully late October this year. Any more info about the plan if the weather is good for early season Snowmaking??



Where would the fun be in letting the cat out of the bag early? 
We've got to keep some of it a surprise!


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## mbedle (Jul 11, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> I'm about 90% sure you're correct.  The ridge trail existed before the Sunbrook expansion.  I remember hiking it a few times before the expansion but that was before google maps, so not 100% sure.  Funny, I don't even remember exactly where the entrance was.



I think its called the Deerfield Ridge trail. Looks like it starts just south of Haystack Mountain and ends at Snow.


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## icecoast1 (Jul 11, 2018)

laxski said:


> Looking forward to the all-out Snowmaking assault in hopefully late October this year. Any more info about the plan if the weather is good for early season Snowmaking??



Anyone that says anything about the weather this far out is only guessing.  Just hope it doesnt end up being an EL NINO this winter which is usually bad for us in the east.... they proved last year with the new system that they can be major early season players so I'm sure whenever it gets cold they will be among the first to open


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## crystalmountainskier (Jul 11, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> The Sunbrook Lift is the next logical lift we'd replace.
> 
> We're also working on some plans to be able to expand the capacity of the existing lifts at the Carinthia Base Area, but that won't happen for this season.



What would Sunbrook be replaced with?


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## drjeff (Jul 11, 2018)

From having gotten a look at West Lake this morning after hiking up the Haystack Mtn trail (not to be confused with the peak the summit of the Hermitage is on!) whatever the fall snowmaking rollout plan is, looks like West Lake is full to capacity with roughly 120 million gallons waiting to become snow currently!

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## Newpylong (Jul 12, 2018)

On their message forum, as of this past winter, Nitro will get more chairs, Heavy Metal will likely be replaced with a fixed grip quad (using most of same towers) and Sunbrook a new HSQ.

Nothing concrete there but that was their thought process.


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## sull1102 (Jul 12, 2018)

I wonder if any thought is being given to another bubble lift in say the next 3-5 years, a quad for Sunbrook maybe, or 6 Pack at Carinthia. Maybe a Killington style move with Nitro moving back to Sunbrook and replace it with the all new Carinthia 6 Pack to accompany the new condos, hotel, and lodge. I know on the passholder forum they have openly talked about wanting to increase capacity over on that side of the mountain. Oh, and I would go bubble only because A. Mount Snow's crowd has demonstrated weekend after weekend they LOVE the bubble, BB can have a 5 minute wait while Grand Summit is ski on and B. Okemo has two, Killington now has one, Hermitage Reborn has a heated one, and a new bubble will help the marketing department 100% more than a regular detachable.

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## skifree (Jul 12, 2018)

without more terrain no need for more lift improvements. maybe sunbrook but really isn't much terrain over there anyways.
too many people on the hill on weekends as is.

I ride with bubble up!!!!


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## benski (Jul 12, 2018)

I hope they don’t install another bubble. I liked just having the old one, especially after skiing straight into the grand summit and looking down on the 1000 people waiting for the bluebird.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 12, 2018)

skifree said:


> without more terrain no need for more lift improvements. maybe sunbrook but really isn't much terrain over there anyways.
> too many people on the hill on weekends as is.
> 
> I ride with bubble up!!!!



Agreed.. How about expanding off the backside of the mountain, to the skiers left of North Face (think hunter pod)? Looks like it has some great pitches! That would totally make people wanna ski the sunbrook quad


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## Newpylong (Jul 12, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I wonder if any thought is being given to another bubble lift in say the next 3-5 years, a quad for Sunbrook maybe, or 6 Pack at Carinthia. Maybe a Killington style move with Nitro moving back to Sunbrook and replace it with the all new Carinthia 6 Pack to accompany the new condos, hotel, and lodge. I know on the passholder forum they have openly talked about wanting to increase capacity over on that side of the mountain. Oh, and I would go bubble only because A. Mount Snow's crowd has demonstrated weekend after weekend they LOVE the bubble, BB can have a 5 minute wait while Grand Summit is ski on and B. Okemo has two, Killington now has one, Hermitage Reborn has a heated one, and a new bubble will help the marketing department 100% more than a regular detachable.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Yes, and decided a more effective approach is the aforementioned items...


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## MountSnow (Jul 12, 2018)

crystalmountainskier said:


> What would Sunbrook be replaced with?



Some sort of detachable high-speed lift. Either a quad or six-pack most likely. Too early to commit to anything though.


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## MountSnow (Jul 12, 2018)

You're correct. It's all topped up and ready to roll. 
Now we just need the temps!


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## bdfreetuna (Jul 12, 2018)

skifree said:


> without more terrain no need for more lift improvements. maybe sunbrook but really isn't much terrain over there anyways.
> too many people on the hill on weekends as is.
> 
> I ride with bubble up!!!!



Mount Snow needs more woods -- yeah they have some, it should be basically everywhere between trails. Spread people out more and slow them down a bit.


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## sull1102 (Jul 12, 2018)

skifree said:


> without more terrain no need for more lift improvements. maybe sunbrook but really isn't much terrain over there anyways.
> too many people on the hill on weekends as is.
> 
> I ride with bubble up!!!!


Sunbrook upgrade will drag a healthy portion of people over from the Main Face and help spread crowds seeing as people avoid the current long ride, but it also opens up a new efficient path to get from parking lot to the summit and North Face and avoid the main face all day if one so desired.

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## MountSnow (Jul 16, 2018)

Any other questions?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 16, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Any other questions?





Congrats on the record year! (per Brattleboro Reformer)

"Mount Snow had an exceptional year with record skier visits and increased revenue, as our expanded and improved snowmaking capabilities resonated with guests," he said. "Skier visits for the 2017/2018 ski season were up 14 percent year over year at Mount Snow which compares favorably to the roughly 1.2 percent increase seen across the state of Vermont according to the Vermont Ski Areas Association. "

https://www.reformer.com/stories/exceptional-year-for-mount-snow,544847


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## MountSnow (Jul 16, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Congrats on the record year! (per Brattleboro Reformer)
> 
> "Mount Snow had an exceptional year with record skier visits and increased revenue, as our expanded and improved snowmaking capabilities resonated with guests," he said. "Skier visits for the 2017/2018 ski season were up 14 percent year over year at Mount Snow which compares favorably to the roughly 1.2 percent increase seen across the state of Vermont according to the Vermont Ski Areas Association. "
> 
> https://www.reformer.com/stories/exceptional-year-for-mount-snow,544847



Thanks Gregory, The future is looking bright!


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## raisingarizona (Jul 16, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Mount Snow needs more woods -- yeah they have some, it should be basically everywhere between trails. Spread people out more and slow them down a bit.



That sounds like a lot of maintenance, especially out east where weeds grow like mad and the snow pack is thin.


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## JimG. (Jul 16, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> That sounds like a lot of maintenance, especially out east where weeds grow like mad and the snow pack is thin.



Correct but this is exactly what Stratton did; pretty much anywhere between trails has been cleaned out.


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## VTKilarney (Jul 16, 2018)

Somebody had a good year:
https://vtdigger.org/2018/07/16/mount-snow-breaks-records-for-revenue-and-skier-visits/


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## Smellytele (Jul 17, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> Somebody had a good year:
> https://vtdigger.org/2018/07/16/mount-snow-breaks-records-for-revenue-and-skier-visits/



Everyone wants to see the new snow making and improvements. Once the EB-5 money dries up and people see what the terrain actually is will they keep it up?


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## Jully (Jul 17, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Everyone wants to see the new snow making and improvements. Once the EB-5 money dries up and people see what the terrain actually is will they keep it up?



I wonder how much of those new visits were one offs midseason because of the publicity versus an increase in early or late season visits because of increased trail and acreage counts thanks to snowmaking. 

They led the northeast from Veterans day through Christmas-ish in skiable acres. They also stayed open later with more trails than their So VT competition and made big resurfacing efforts after rainstorms and thaws were others did not.

I'm not a Mt Snow skier, but I bet they turned a good chunk of that 14% increase into repeat customers due to fast lifts and excellent snowmaking. If you're looking for good groomed conditions early season or after rough weather, Snow is now the place to go in VT. I bet they'll keep it up and set another record this year (assuming it is not a disaster year).


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## Smellytele (Jul 17, 2018)

Jully said:


> I wonder how much of those new visits were one offs midseason because of the publicity versus an increase in early or late season visits because of increased trail and acreage counts thanks to snowmaking.
> 
> They led the northeast from Veterans day through Christmas-ish in skiable acres. They also stayed open later with more trails than their So VT competition and made big resurfacing efforts after rainstorms and thaws were others did not.
> 
> I'm not a Mt Snow skier, but I bet they turned a good chunk of that 14% increase into repeat customers due to fast lifts and excellent snowmaking. If you're looking for good groomed conditions early season or after rough weather, Snow is now the place to go in VT. I bet they'll keep it up and set another record this year (assuming it is not a disaster year).



I went there this year and brought my teenage sons (their first times there) with me and if it wasn't on our pass we would not have gone. They did not like the terrain, hated the crowds and after their 1st visits didn't want to go back. Now that we no longer have Peaks passes we will not go there.


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## Newpylong (Jul 17, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Everyone wants to see the new snow making and improvements. Once the EB-5 money dries up and people see what the terrain actually is will they keep it up?



I think "everyone" is a minuscule fraction of their annual skier visits. Joe Blow from CT sees 50 trails open in early December at only 2 hours away and their mind is made up. If conditions are good on said trails, then they are hooked and will likely return. New lodge and snowmaking improvements are not one-offs, these things will continue to propel numbers year over year.


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## FBGM (Jul 17, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Everyone wants to see the new snow making and improvements. Once the EB-5 money dries up and people see what the terrain actually is will they keep it up?



I think they will fizzle once peoplensee the smoke and mirrors of a bottom tier Vermont resort. The funny money will go away and people will be fine with driving a bit farther to the top notch resorts.


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## Smellytele (Jul 17, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> I think "everyone" is a minuscule fraction of their annual skier visits. Joe Blow from CT sees 50 trails open in early December at only 2 hours away and their mind is made up. If conditions are good on said trails, then they are hooked and will likely return. New lodge and snowmaking improvements are not one-offs, these things will continue to propel numbers year over year.


Just saying newness wears off. If Joe Blow sees 50 trails open then skis there and realizes it is only 20 with top, middle, lower (I know they don't actually name them that way like K does but they change the full names) then they see that every trail skis the same on the front then they may not come back.


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## gregnye (Jul 17, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Everyone wants to see the new snow making and improvements. Once the EB-5 money dries up and people see what the terrain actually is will they keep it up?



I predict Mt. Snow will continue to be crowded even after the EB-5 money dries up, simply because it's considered the flagship resort of Peaks. Just look at Attitash and wildcat. They are now part of the peaks pass as well but have only seen minimal increases in crowding. I don't see all those people from New York and Connecticut who currently go to Mt. Snow deciding to drive 3 more hours to Peak's New Hampshire resorts.

The only thing I could see jeopardizing Mt. Snow's numbers is if Killington somehow teamed up with other mountains in a similar pass to the Peaks Pass (so a better deal than Ikon).Maybe if Killington teamed up with a ski area in NY. Even then, Killington doesn't have the same reliable terrain park area to attract the same demographic as Mt. Snow, or the consistent (non-intersection abundant) trails.


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## DoublePlanker (Jul 17, 2018)

gregnye said:


> I predict Mt. Snow will continue to be crowded even after the EB-5 money dries up, simply because it's considered the flagship resort of Peaks. Just look at Attitash and wildcat. They are now part of the peaks pass as well but have only seen minimal increases in crowding. I don't see all those people from New York and Connecticut who currently go to Mt. Snow deciding to drive 3 more hours to Peak's New Hampshire resorts.
> 
> The only thing I could see jeopardizing Mt. Snow's numbers is if Killington somehow teamed up with other mountains in a similar pass to the Peaks Pass (so a better deal than Ikon).Maybe if Killington teamed up with a ski area in NY. Even then, Killington doesn't have the same reliable terrain park area to attract the same demographic as Mt. Snow, or the consistent (non-intersection abundant) trails.



What about Okemo?   Has superior intermediate skiing.  Pulls from CT, NY, etc.  Now owned by Vail, a company that could afford to out gun Mt Snore.


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## ThinkSnow (Jul 17, 2018)

gregnye said:


> I don't see all those people from New York and Connecticut who currently go to Mt. Snow deciding to drive 3 more hours to Peak's New Hampshire resorts.


  .....and lets keep it that way.


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## slatham (Jul 17, 2018)

"Everyone wants to see the new snow making and improvements. Once the EB-5 money dries up and people see what the terrain actually is will they keep it up?"

The snowmaking improvements have been made and have put Mt Snow in a different league. People looking for more open terrain, quicker resurfacing etc. are hard pressed to find any area as good as Mt Snow. That will not change short term due to EB-5 issues (Which I'll bet get resolved quickly).

"What about Okemo? Has superior intermediate skiing. Pulls from CT, NY, etc. Now owned by Vail, a company that could afford to out gun Mt Snore."

I agree with your point on the Vail/Epic connection being a threat. But you're calling Mt Snow "Mt Snore" when compared to Okemo? Okemo has none of the excitement of Carinthia for the park crew, and no steeps that compare to the North Face. Sorry, the snooze award goes to Okemo, not Mt Snow.


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## 180 (Jul 17, 2018)

i think the gains will hold, combined with the 25% increase of terrain at Hunter, the Peak pass will continue to draw from their sweet spot of skiers


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## drjeff (Jul 17, 2018)

Jully said:


> I wonder how much of those new visits were one offs midseason because of the publicity versus an increase in early or late season visits because of increased trail and acreage counts thanks to snowmaking.
> 
> They led the northeast from Veterans day through Christmas-ish in skiable acres. They also stayed open later with more trails than their So VT competition and made big resurfacing efforts after rainstorms and thaws were others did not.
> 
> I'm not a Mt Snow skier, but I bet they turned a good chunk of that 14% increase into repeat customers due to fast lifts and excellent snowmaking. If you're looking for good groomed conditions early season or after rough weather, Snow is now the place to go in VT. I bet they'll keep it up and set another record this year (assuming it is not a disaster year).



Frankly as someone who was skiing Mount Snow most weekends last season, I'm pretty sure that it was their early season and late season crowds that put them over the top numbers wise last season based on my own anecdotal crowd notes. Mid season suffered from the cold stretch at Christmas and then melt outs just before MLK weekend and around Pres week. Crowds were solid by my accounts, mid season weekends, but not a consistently large amount over historical mid winter weekends, and the holiday periods seemed to be below normal. Early season (from opening until Christmas week) the weekend crowds seemed above normal, and then late season (basically from March 1st on and especially after the huge storms in Early March), the crowds were BIG, and never really fell off on the weekends until the beginning of April.  I really can't speak much for what the mid week volume was like , as I hardly has any mid week, non holiday week days last season at Mount Snow.

My hunch if monthly numbers were ever released, is that the first 1/3rd of the season would be comfortably above historical averages, the middle third a bit below historical averages, and the last 1/3rd way above historical averages, with the end result being up 14% with a record year


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## skiur (Jul 17, 2018)

Snowmaking is great but groomers get boring real quick.  When you average less than 150" of snow a year you cant make up or it with snowmaking.  Add in the crowds and it makes for a place I'm not too interested in.  I do have to say I havent skied there since the ASC bronze pass days but apparently the crowds were worse this year so I plan to keep driving north past mt snow.


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## cdskier (Jul 17, 2018)

skiur said:


> Snowmaking is great but groomers get boring real quick.  When you average less than 150" of snow a year you cant make up or it with snowmaking.  Add in the crowds and it makes for a place I'm not too interested in.  I do have to say I havent skied there since the ASC bronze pass days but apparently the crowds were worse this year so I plan to keep driving north past mt snow.



I would suspect though that the "typical" AZer is not the main demographic interested in skiing Mt Snow. If everyone simply found groomers boring, then why do places with that type of terrain continue to do well (Snow, Stratton, Okemo, etc)? Because there are a significant number of people that don't mind skiing mostly groomers  all day and don't need/want a lot of technical and challenging terrain at a resort (my brother would fall into that category as even when he used to ski at Sugarbush he'd usually stick 98% to trails that were groomed).

So maybe Mt Snow would not be able to sustain the numbers they had this year, but I do think as long as they have a pass reasonably priced that they will find many people that are interested in exactly the product they are offering now thanks in large part to their improved snowmaking system.


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## Jully (Jul 17, 2018)

I'd even say most skiers PREFER (rather than don't mind) to ski nothing but groomers all day.


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## sull1102 (Jul 17, 2018)

Okemo, Stratton, Snow boring, flat, "I keep driving north" and yet they are some of biggest mountains in the region. Same could be said for Wachusett and Loon. The crowd on here typically keeps driving, yet these are the major players in the game and the VAST majority do ski these mountains so they're doing something right. Also the woods at Snow were fantastic this year straight into April and North Face is good enough for some steeps for most so it isn't all groomers.

As far the crowds, I can say from my point of view as an almost exclusively midweek guest that the crowds on Monday through Friday were at least double the previous two years. I can think of just a couple of days that were the usual empty, ski on Bluebird all day weekdays I love so much. 

And to those wondering if they can keep this up, I would plan on seeing a very noticeable bump in numbers next year. At the very least Hermitage members will struggle mightily to spin their lifts. If that doesn't happen, most likely scenario, those folks will be headed for Mount Snow. Yes most were already going to Snow, but now they'll be there every weekend. That's another 500-600 people overall.

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## Smellytele (Jul 17, 2018)

Everyone has their likes and dislikes with ski areas. If they didn't  everyone would ski at the some one. Terrain and crowds are what drives  me to ski a certain area. If a ski area has great snow making and poor  terrain it is not high on my list. Same with poor terrain and great  lifts. Rather have poor lifts and great terrain.


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## MountSnow (Jul 26, 2018)

Any additional questions for us?


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## drjeff (Jul 26, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Any additional questions for us?



Is the pace of construction for the Carinthia lodge on target for an opening by the beginning of the season? 

Also, when I drove by it about 10 days ago, the pile of rubble/rocks that was roughly situated where the old, now demolished Carinthia lodge was, sure didn't look like old, shattered foundation debris. Is that some of the rocks from the blasting of Long John last Summer for it's widening that I believe I read at one point were going to be brought down the mountain to the Carinthia base area for fill purposes as the lodge nears completion?


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## MountSnow (Jul 26, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Is the pace of construction for the Carinthia lodge on target for an opening by the beginning of the season?
> 
> Also, when I drove by it about 10 days ago, the pile of rubble/rocks that was roughly situated where the old, now demolished Carinthia lodge was, sure didn't look like old, shattered foundation debris. Is that some of the rocks from the blasting of Long John last Summer for it's widening that I believe I read at one point were going to be brought down the mountain to the Carinthia base area for fill purposes as the lodge nears completion?



1. Yes, the lodge is still on schedule to open with the start of the 2018/19 season. 

2. That fill is indeed from our Long John Widening Project last summer. It is being crushed onsite to create fill for our new preferred parking area that will be located where the old Carinthia Lodge stood.


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## skifree (Jul 26, 2018)

is preferred parking area code for you need to pay $$ to park here?


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## MountSnow (Jul 26, 2018)

skifree said:


> is preferred parking area code for you need to pay $$ to park here?



As with the Main Base Area, Preferred Parking will be available there Friday through Sunday and during holiday periods throughout the winter season. During these periods, this lot will be access controlled providing paid parking on a first come-first serve basis.


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## skiur (Jul 26, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> As with the Main Base Area, Preferred Parking will be available there Friday through Sunday and during holiday periods throughout the winter season. During these periods, this lot will be access controlled providing paid parking on a first come-first serve basis.



How many spots will the pay to park lot have?


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## MountSnow (Jul 26, 2018)

skiur said:


> How many spots will the pay to park lot have?



That hasn't been finalized yet.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jul 26, 2018)

Are any of the new carinthia lodge bars going to be considered "late night" options? (i/e a later closing time that cuzzins)


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## MountSnow (Jul 26, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Are any of the new carinthia lodge bars going to be considered "late night" options? (i/e a later closing time that cuzzins)



That's all going to depend on demand. If the demand is there, then it's something we'd look into doing.
The new Carinthia Base Lodge will be an evolving project for the first year as we see how people choose to interact with it.


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## drjeff (Jul 28, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> That's all going to depend on demand. If the demand is there, then it's something we'd look into doing.
> The new Carinthia Base Lodge will be an evolving project for the first year as we see how people choose to interact with it.



If you run a shuttle about 6PM with Pete, and Alyzabeth and the rest of the usual crew of the Taproom about then from the main base lodge over to the new Carinthia base lodge most weekend evenings, then let's go late over there this season!! If not, let's just all eventually meet up at the "Best Dive Bar" in ski country per Ski Magazine a number of years ago located about 50 yards South of Snow's Mountain Market,  and call it a day! [emoji16] [emoji16] 

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## Jcb890 (Jul 30, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Nope!
> We gave a ton of time and notice for everyone.
> 
> Sorry man.


Oh I know, just giving you a hard time.


On a side note... no idea why I didn't get notifications about this thread.


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## MountSnow (Jul 30, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Oh I know, just giving you a hard time.
> 
> 
> On a side note... no idea why I didn't get notifications about this thread.



The notifications seem to be a bit spotty. Hence why we miss posts sometimes for a few days.


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## sull1102 (Aug 1, 2018)

Just reading up on Hunter's great expansion project this summer and the snowmaking they are installing got me wondering, does Mount Snow have any automated guns on the hill and do you plan to go that way in the future as more Polecats start to cross the ten year mark? 

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## MountSnow (Aug 2, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Just reading up on Hunter's great expansion project this summer and the snowmaking they are installing got me wondering, does Mount Snow have any automated guns on the hill and do you plan to go that way in the future as more Polecats start to cross the ten year mark?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



We actually do not, but with the new West Lake Water Project we've made it so that we can run a phenominal amount of snowguns with a small crew of 6-8 snowmakers.


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## Newpylong (Aug 2, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Just reading up on Hunter's great expansion project this summer and the snowmaking they are installing got me wondering, does Mount Snow have any automated guns on the hill and do you plan to go that way in the future as more Polecats start to cross the ten year mark?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Each Polecat is ~$30K a piece and already a sunk cost. If maintained properly the only thing those things will need are new compressors (short change), nozzles, and occasional hoses when they rot. They will go a long time. There really is little incentive to replace or integrate automation with those things - big bucks for little ROI.  If the line is already charged and the hoses connected (which they usually are) one guy can literally go down a trail by himself in a sled and turn them on. Automation really shines on a new installation on areas you frequently need to resurface - like that trail at Hunter.


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## FBGM (Aug 8, 2018)

Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 8, 2018)

If you run a gun nightly then automation makes sense. If you need to automate fifty towers, and you only run 'em to open and occasionally after, the extra cost isn't worth it. The maintenance isn't worth it. The comm hassle isn't worth it.

There's a reason smaller mountains automate more - the more you run a given trail, the more you get out of the automation. If you don't run a gun frequently it's not worth automating.

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## sull1102 (Aug 8, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.


You do have a point to some degree, only thing is that Snow went all in with the Polecats back in 07-09 or so. That was just a couple years before automatic systems really became the clear way of the future. I'm sure if they installed the same system nowadays they would go automatic.

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## drjeff (Aug 9, 2018)

Having witnessed how quickly Mount Snow can light up or shut down a trail of fan guns (1 snowmaker on a snowmobile can typically handle a mile long trail such as Snowdance in 20 minutes or so) or what their core snowmaking crew can do for late season resurfacing efforts where typically 3 or 4 of them are running 150-200 guns on multiple core trails with a pretty quick start up and shut down, and then take the extra $$ that would have to be spent to replace and/or upgrade the existing polecats to fully automated and put that $$ towards the looming snowmaking expansion to trails currently not covered with snowmaking.

I don't doubt that there are certainly some advantages to having atleast some core trails fully automated where automation will get you a few extra minutes of run time at the beginning and end of a snowmaking run (especially both as temps drop at the beginning of a post thaw freeze up situation or early season start a trail time or trying to squeeze a few extra minutes out as warming temps arrive), but the reality is with a GOOD crew at a major mountain, the amount of extra run time over the course of a season that an automated system will get you isn't a large amount of hours at all

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## tumbler (Aug 9, 2018)

Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless.  You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow.  Might as well just turn it on yourself.  Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen.  I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.


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## ss20 (Aug 9, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.



Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...


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## ss20 (Aug 9, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.



Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...


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## icecoast1 (Aug 9, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless.  You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow.  Might as well just turn it on yourself.  Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen.  I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.



Yes you still need snowmakers on the hill but you need a lot less with automation.  If the gun is completely automated you dont even need to be at the gun to turn it on or see what it is doing.   It's not useless at all if you know how to use it


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## cdskier (Aug 9, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...



I almost choked on my breakfast sandwich from laughing at your comment!


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## machski (Aug 9, 2018)

I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward.  But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location.  So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated).  I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.

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## FBGM (Aug 9, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless.  You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow.  Might as well just turn it on yourself.  Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen.  I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.



False, actuator opens and closes hydrant. Sit back and click your mouse to make snow. Crack open a cold one.


----------



## FBGM (Aug 9, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...



Same place your wife did. 4/10. Would not want again.


----------



## icecoast1 (Aug 9, 2018)

machski said:


> I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward.  But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location.  So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated).  I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T900 using AlpineZone mobile app



There are places overseas that dwarf mount snow in size that run fully auto systems.  But its probably not feasible for Mount Snow to do it at this point at least with the fans, hkd has a nice semi auto system that would be a huge upgrade for their hkd tower guns


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 9, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Same place your wife did. 4/10. Would not want again.



You're not funny.


----------



## sull1102 (Aug 9, 2018)

machski said:


> I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward.  But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location.  So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated).  I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T900 using AlpineZone mobile app


So with the advances in networking and especially mesh wifi networking it's actually super easy to make a WiFi network stretch over all of Mount Snow. Especially since this network isn't more than an intranet and does not need to reach out to the internet unless they want to get super fancy and control the system from home or a cell phone.

There's tons of advantages to automation already but as we move forward there will be even more reasons to make the switch.


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## cdskier (Aug 9, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> You're not funny.



He does it intentionally and people just keep taking the bait by acknowledging him. I'd say over 90% of his posts are either intentionally inflammatory or just plain stupid.


----------



## sull1102 (Aug 9, 2018)

machski said:


> I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward.  But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location.  So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated).  I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T900 using AlpineZone mobile app


So with the advances in networking and especially mesh wifi networking it's actually super easy to make a WiFi network stretch over all of Mount Snow. Especially since this network isn't more than an intranet and does not need to reach out to the internet unless they want to get super fancy and control the system from home or a cell phone.

There's tons of advantages to automation already but as we move forward there will be even more reasons to make the switch. 

Now back to Mount Snow since I have completely derailed this thread... I'm curious if there has been more thought given to Snow Lake Lodge and it's future. I know it is not long for this world, if I remember correctly the idea was in the next 5-10 years it will be gone. With that being said, is there any investment going into the building? It just looks like it's starting to get dilapidated and it's one of the first things a guest sees depending on where they enter the resort from 100.


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## mbedle (Aug 9, 2018)

cdskier said:


> I almost choked on my breakfast sandwich from laughing at your comment!



It was good one...


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 9, 2018)

cdskier said:


> He does it intentionally and people just keep taking the bait by acknowledging him. I'd say over 90% of his posts are either intentionally inflammatory or just plain stupid.



Oh I know. But if you're going to be a troll you need to at least be somewhat humorous..... looks like he lost his touch!


----------



## tumbler (Aug 9, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> Yes you still need snowmakers on the hill but you need a lot less with automation.  If the gun is completely automated you dont even need to be at the gun to turn it on or see what it is doing.   It's not useless at all if you know how to use it



Someone has to be on the hill to make sure the gun is making snow.  This is not golf course irrigation, the cold temps would wreak havoc with the automated systems.  Like I said my experience was 15 years ago but I cannot imagine that freezing temps, water and electronics all working like the 15th fairway irrigation heads has been figured out.


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## Glenn (Aug 9, 2018)

I wonder if the system could be automated to adjust output on a fangun using real time temp and humidity sensors? I would think that would yield some efficiencies.


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## machski (Aug 9, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> So with the advances in networking and especially mesh wifi networking it's actually super easy to make a WiFi network stretch over all of Mount Snow. Especially since this network isn't more than an intranet and does not need to reach out to the internet unless they want to get super fancy and control the system from home or a cell phone.
> 
> There's tons of advantages to automation already but as we move forward there will be even more reasons to make the switch.
> 
> ...


Ok, Mount Snow may be easier than wifi.  HKD has semi auto hydrants which Loon has installed on quite a few runs on the main peak.  The problem with just doing that is those hydrants and the guns need to be very close together (and thus, so do the pipes).  So if your pipes are set back from the trail edge, it makes it tough to impossible to just switch without moving pipe.  Loon's all have short hose from Hydrant head to tower connect and while I understand HKD has a longer automated hose setup, I have yet to see one.  And Loon's are all the semi auto type (one lever controls the whole deal).

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## FBGM (Aug 9, 2018)

Glenn said:


> I wonder if the system could be automated to adjust output on a fangun using real time temp and humidity sensors? I would think that would yield some efficiencies.



Umm, yeah, that’s what auto is. SMI auto guns / smart snow come progrmaed just like they. You can customize it tonwhst you want for what banks you want on. Real time weather at each gun. 

Click click make good snow. Keep the $8 stoned snowmaker out of the equation.


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## FBGM (Aug 9, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Someone has to be on the hill to make sure the gun is making snow.  This is not golf course irrigation, the cold temps would wreak havoc with the automated systems.  Like I said my experience was 15 years ago but I cannot imagine that freezing temps, water and electronics all working like the 15th fairway irrigation heads has been figured out.



It’s a snowgun. They are meant for cold. Do you think they only work at 65 and above?

Realistically you could have a Skelton crew of 3-4 and run an entire system.


----------



## ss20 (Aug 9, 2018)

cdskier said:


> He does it intentionally and people just keep taking the bait by acknowledging him. I'd say over 90% of his posts are either intentionally inflammatory or just plain stupid.



It's all against Peaks and Mount Snow so I'm imagining there's a backstory behind this we don't know.  Need some summer entertainment


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## ss20 (Aug 9, 2018)

I do think automation will become more popular as we see minimum wage increase.  Paying a crew of guys $10 an hour vs $15 an hour is a big difference.  Especially when during a week-long deep freeze where you can make snow 24/7... I'm sure guys go into OT then.

I'd also assume less guys on the hill playing with heavy equipment, in negative degree weather, in the dark would be a welcome sight to the liability insurance companies.  Maybe they'd help the resorts automate some areas.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 9, 2018)

tumbler said:


> Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless.  You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow.  Might as well just turn it on yourself.  Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen.  I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.


Wisp, MD has had a fully automated system on at least part of the mountain as far back as I worked there in 2003.  I believe eventually the whole mountain got the system since I left.  

I got to see the control room in action. You could turn the valves on and off, pick which guns to run etc, all with a click of a mouse. 

http://www.evapor.com/why-automate.html


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## prsboogie (Aug 9, 2018)

@mountsnow I too would love to know what the plans are for the Snow Lake Lodge. 

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## slatham (Aug 10, 2018)

SAM had a recent article on the various state of the art systems and referenced two that were automated: Arizona Snowbowl, which was a news system and 100% automated; and Holiday Valley (?) which retro fitted a couple of high traffic slopes with an automated system. I will provide more details later (I am traveling and don't have the mag with me) if memory serves it was completely auto - hit a button and on it goes, off it goes. Each gun has sensors to optimize output given parameters (wet base snow or dry resurfacing) and given atmospheric conditions at each gun. All pole mounted fans. One guy walks the trail to make sure all is well. For those types of trails - wide, high traffic, core trails, it is the way forward for sure.


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## MountSnow (Aug 13, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> @mountsnow I too would love to know what the plans are for the Snow Lake Lodge.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



It's part of our master plan to replace that hotel with another property, but we don't have any concrete details or timeline that we can share at this time. Once we do, we'll be sure to update you all.


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## skifree (Aug 13, 2018)

I would rather it stays as is. cheap sleeps .


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## MountSnow (Aug 13, 2018)

skifree said:


> I would rather it stays as is. cheap sleeps .



Don't worry. It's not going anywhere anytime too soon. Cheap ski and stay specials have many years still ahead of them there.


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## Quietman (Aug 13, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Especially when during a week-long deep freeze where you can make snow 24/7... I'm sure guys go into OT then.



OT?    I live in NH where seasonal workers = no OT.  Believe me, I know!


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## prsboogie (Aug 13, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Don't worry. It's not going anywhere anytime too soon. Cheap ski and stay specials have many years still ahead of them there.


That's good to here, just needs a facelift. It's the perfect spot. 

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Jully (Aug 13, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> That's good to here, just needs a facelift. It's the perfect spot.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



Honestly not enough places have a more affordable resort lodging option I feel. It seems to me like a market that's relatively untapped. I'm obviously biased but feel I'm not alone in that I won't make the jump from a $55 / night motel to a $155 a night grand summit but do occasionally jump to $89 or $99 a night for the Snow Cap at Sunday River (only other place I know of that has something similar to Snow Lake).


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## sull1102 (Aug 14, 2018)

Affordable does not have to mean outdated and dilapidated though. I love the service Snow Lake provides and for the location it is in the pricing and packages are fantastic. My only gripe is that I wish it wasn't so close to me calling it "dumpy."

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## skifree (Aug 14, 2018)

serves its purpose just fine. more ski towns need big/cheap lodging. keeps the budget minded people in the mix.
just need a place to s.s.s


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## Jully (Aug 14, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Affordable does not have to mean outdated and dilapidated though. I love the service Snow Lake provides and for the location it is in the pricing and packages are fantastic. My only gripe is that I wish it wasn't so close to me calling it "dumpy."
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Fair. The gold standard for my comment I consider to be the Snow Cap in at SR. Definitely not dumpy, just not a grand summit and it is not physically slopeside.


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## FBGM (Aug 15, 2018)

Mmm bed bugs, Coney Island whitefish leftovers and needles. Sign me up.


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## prsboogie (Aug 15, 2018)

Jully said:


> Honestly not enough places have a more affordable resort lodging option I feel. It seems to me like a market that's relatively untapped. I'm obviously biased but feel I'm not alone in that I won't make the jump from a $55 / night motel to a $155 a night grand summit but do occasionally jump to $89 or $99 a night for the Snow Cap at Sunday River (only other place I know of that has something similar to Snow Lake).



I am a family of four and lodging can be a very prohibitive. We need to have inexpensive options but I agree they need to be clean and not rundown. I love slope side but rarely can I afford more than one or two nights a year. 

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## ss20 (Aug 15, 2018)

I've really grown close to hostels as a single skier.  There's a nice one at the base of the Sugarbush access road.  I want to stay at Grandpa Grumps up in Jay this winter.  

Snow Lake Lodge has seen better days...but it's pretty hard to beat pricewise including a nice continental breakfast, indoor/outdoor pools, and reliable shuttle service to the mountain.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 17, 2018)

How does the March 7-9 2018  system stack up with other historical snowfalls? I for one have never seen anything like it in the 20+ years of skiing there


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## MountSnow (Aug 17, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> How does the March 7-9 2018  system stack up with other historical snowfalls? I for one have never seen anything like it in the 20+ years of skiing there



Largest single storm system to hit this mountain in four decades.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 17, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Largest single storm system to hit this mountain in four decades.



Thanks. Still dreaming about those pillows to the skiers right of Bear Trap


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## MountSnow (Aug 17, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Thanks. Still dreaming about those pillows to the skiers right of Bear Trap



Oh, you mean these...?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 17, 2018)

What a day that was........


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## sull1102 (Aug 17, 2018)

I had literally just gotten back to the States on the evening of the 7th from a trip around the EU that brought me to the Alps for the first time skiing in Laax, Switzerland. Coming home to these conditions and coming home to possibly the greatest powder Mount Snow has ever seen was one hell of a treat. You guys were genuinely a world class resort that week! Cannot wait for the next 12 weeks to fly by! I'll take just Long John even right now.

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## jaytrem (Aug 17, 2018)

Already selling tix from Nov 10th on I see!!!


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## sull1102 (Aug 20, 2018)

So a question I have is now that Carinthia is clearly the nicer base area and will be for the next few years at least, has any thought been give to the future of the all park mountain face? I imagine the crowds will be considerably larger with the new lodge being well publicized this summer and new parking as well. It would be a real shame to lose that fantastic set up you guys currently have for the park, but I know there's a plan for new condos coming pretty soon here as well.

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## MountSnow (Aug 21, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> So a question I have is now that Carinthia is clearly the nicer base area and will be for the next few years at least, has any thought been give to the future of the all park mountain face? I imagine the crowds will be considerably larger with the new lodge being well publicized this summer and new parking as well. It would be a real shame to lose that fantastic set up you guys currently have for the park, but I know there's a plan for new condos coming pretty soon here as well.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Our plans for the future continue to have Carinthia build on what it has achieved over the past 10 years, as it's transformed into the #1 rated park in the East. With our Drifter Pass demographic (18-29-year-olds) now being our largest passholder group, we're commited to continuing to provide what they look for in a resort: great events, a diverse apreès scene, and world-class terrain parks.

For those looking to access the Carinthia Base Area, we'd suggest the route on skiers left on Nitro, which leaves a great area to ski or ride down while avoiding the features. That being said, we're also looking to expand snowmaking in the future on to trails such as Fools Gold that could offer a non-terrain park route to the Carinthia Base Area.


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## MountSnow (Aug 21, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> Already selling tix from Nov 10th on I see!!!



We're ready to start firing as soon as Ma Nature cooperates. 
Time to see what this West Lake snowmaking system can really do!


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## Newpylong (Aug 21, 2018)

Would love to see Upper Titanium / Fools Gold (when snowmaking is installed) remain park free in the future! Would provide a nice way down for all.

Not sure if the topography below Rusty Nail would be conducive to extending that down to Season's Pass to allow for a non-park route off Heavy Metal if and when it becomes a fixed grip quad as well.


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## sull1102 (Aug 24, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Our plans for the future continue to have Carinthia build on what it has achieved over the past 10 years, as it's transformed into the #1 rated park in the East. With our Drifter Pass demographic (18-29-year-olds) now being our largest passholder group, we're commited to continuing to provide what they look for in a resort: great events, a diverse apreès scene, and world-class terrain parks.
> 
> For those looking to access the Carinthia Base Area, we'd suggest the route on skiers left on Nitro, which leaves a great area to ski or ride down while avoiding the features. That being said, we're also looking to expand snowmaking in the future on to trails such as Fools Gold that could offer a non-terrain park route to the Carinthia Base Area.
> 
> View attachment 23968


That's great to hear. It was pretty cool to watch Odesza at Coachella days after they played Mount Snow and then again at Lollapalooza a couple weeks ago. I think the idea of giving up park features on Fools Gold(the top half usually doesn't have any as is) when snowmaking is added is actually a good idea. Overall the minor loss would be fine if it means less people cruising through the parks possibly at slightly elevated risk of collision at times. Plus it would drop folks right at the absolutely stunning new lodge and eliminate that little kicker that on the busiest of days becomes the back of the liftline. 

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## MountSnow (Aug 28, 2018)

Let's test your knowledge. 
Which lift is this?


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## Jcb890 (Aug 28, 2018)

Sunbrook?


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## Smellytele (Aug 28, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Sunbrook?



Is that a triple?


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## Newpylong (Aug 28, 2018)

It's a Yan triple so it has to be Sundance, Tumbleweed, Challenger, Ego, or Discovery Shuttle.


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## Jcb890 (Aug 28, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Is that a triple?


I was judging by seat shape/indents and it looks like it is made for 3.  Just a guess though.

That and the sunset, I was thinking "_Sunset for the Sunbrook lift_".  But wow, I gotta be honest, I thought the Sunbrook lift was a triple, not a quad.  So... I lose.


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## skifree (Aug 28, 2018)

outpost


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## bdfreetuna (Aug 28, 2018)

Too many lifts barely used sitting around on Mount Snow. Who knows. Post it on 4Chan somebody will figure it out based on the trajectory of the sun.


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## drjeff (Aug 28, 2018)

Ego is my bet. Proper angle to capture the sunrise through a chair from the lower section of exhibition, and not foot rest. That part rules out Sundance, Tumbleweed and Challenger

My 2nd guess would be the Discovery triple, you can get the proper sun angle for a picture like that late season and not have any of the base area buildings in the way, plus the relatively flat angle of the haul rope brings that lift into my guessing realm too


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## sull1102 (Aug 28, 2018)

I'll go with Ego Alley as well based on the way the sun has been rising over the ridge the past weeks. 

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## jaytrem (Aug 28, 2018)

No foot rest Yan, gotta be Ego.  Discovery has footrests.


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## MountSnow (Aug 29, 2018)

T-minus 80 days and counting!


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## Newpylong (Aug 29, 2018)

That lift is old faithful.


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## drjeff (Aug 29, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> That lift is old faithful.



Lightly used, and well cared for isn't a bad combo for a lift that's been through multiple decades of VT winters!


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## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 29, 2018)

Is Ego Alley the oldest lift at Mt Snow? I would think seasons would take the cake


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## drjeff (Aug 29, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Is Ego Alley the oldest lift at Mt Snow? I would think seasons would take the cake



From what I can gather from the lifts installation section of skilifts.org, Seasons is the oldest, "all original" lift still operating at Mount Snow with a 1972 installation year.  From what I can gather from the same page, it appears that the lattice lift towers that are used for part of Ego date back to the G2 installation along  much of that same lift route in 1969 with the Yan components coming in 1985


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## MountSnow (Aug 30, 2018)

It was Ego!


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## urungus (Sep 5, 2018)

I guess it’s up to Google, but I would like to see an update to the Mt Snow trail map on Google Maps, particularly the Carinthia Area.  Most trails there are not named, and Heavy Metal and Grommett have the old names.


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## drjeff (Sep 6, 2018)

urungus said:


> View attachment 23999
> 
> I guess it’s up to Google, but I would like to see an update to the Mt Snow trail map on Google Maps, particularly the Carinthia Area.  Most trails there are not named, and Heavy Metal and Grommett have the old names.




The Narrow Guage labeling by Google in this image, might be because that's the name of the trail under Heavy Metal, and the folks at Google with their *cough* infinite wisdom *cough* of Mount Snow may not of discerned the difference between the trail name and the lift name


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## cdskier (Sep 6, 2018)

urungus said:


> View attachment 23999
> 
> I guess it’s up to Google, but I would like to see an update to the Mt Snow trail map on Google Maps, particularly the Carinthia Area.  Most trails there are not named, and Heavy Metal and Grommett have the old names.



I'm curious whether it really is up to Google or not. I've often wondered why some ski areas have their trails showing on Google Maps while others don't. It isn't based on size of the resort either from what I can tell as MRG has their trails on Google, but Sugarbush does not for example.


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## asnowmobiler (Sep 6, 2018)

Some ski areas even have street view on their trails.


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## skiur (Sep 6, 2018)

It all depends on if the google car has driven thru the ski area or not.


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## sull1102 (Sep 6, 2018)

It's up to Google to some degree. If a resort really wanted to have all their lifts and trails accurately laid out by Google Maps, which I think most if not all of the Main Face, North Face, and Sunbrook currently are, they could reach out to the Maps team. The group is partly based out of Cambridge MA so it there's also just the roll of the dice. You can bet if a Google Maps Dev or mapmaker is a passholder at a mountain there's a slightly better chance they will map it out just for their own use and apply the fix to the overall map. Right now Google Maps cannot even get the town name right up here. As of 18 months ago the town of Bennington comes up as Woodford, increasing that small towns theoretical population by over 399%.

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## sull1102 (Sep 6, 2018)

I may have seen somewhere that maybe possibly there's a chance Minus Zero is back in 2019. Rumor I heard was over on the festival side of things not the skiing crowd. The festival goers were asking and someone seemed to suggest "same venue, same weekend as last year" IF this rumor is true I for one am thrilled to see Mount Snow playing a cool role in a much bigger world outside the skiing industry.

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## asnowmobiler (Sep 6, 2018)

I meant street view on the trails.


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## drjeff (Sep 6, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I may have seen somewhere that maybe possibly there's a chance Minus Zero is back in 2019. Rumor I heard was over on the festival side of things not the skiing crowd. The festival goers were asking and someone seemed to suggest "same venue, same weekend as last year" IF this rumor is true I for one am thrilled to see Mount Snow playing a cool role in a much bigger world outside the skiing industry.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



I know the mountain has said that they were happy with the festival.  The town said that they were happy with the festival as well. So it sounds like it will boil down to was Minus Zero happy with Mount Snow and the festival and if so, can they make the numbers and logistics work?


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## sull1102 (Sep 6, 2018)

Everything I am hearing from the festival people is that the crowd, organizers, and Odesza loved the event and how the whole thing was run, fantastic news for the mountain moving forward and setting themselves apart from the competition in a big way.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 6, 2018)

Any ski resort that has street view of their trail system has paid for it.


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## jaytrem (Sep 6, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Any ski resort that has street view of their trail system has paid for it.



Is that true? I just find it hard to believe places like Warner Canyon would pay.  They don't even open some years.


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## skiur (Sep 7, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Any ski resort that has street view of their trail system has paid for it.



How can you back up this statement, is this a fact or just your opinion?


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 7, 2018)

I'm familiar with the process of hiring the Google 360 photographers and have some knowledge of the API and how it works in relation to Google Maps. It's not directly one of the services I provide but there is some collaboration.

Not specifically familiar with ski resort Google photography but if it's anything like campgrounds and other kinds of recreational resorts/areas typically they'll get mapped out because the owner wants to have 360 views of their establishment. If it's a large enough area that has something resembling "trails" or can be zoomed in on using Google Maps, apparently Google will use the privately chartered mapping to enhance their global Google Map system.

That said I could imagine some private areas are interesting and well-traveled to the extent that Google would want to add them before somebody calls up one of their network of Google 360 approved photographers. Quick search shows this is probably true...

The initiative was announced in 2013 but doesn't explain what arrangements the owners made with Google & their photographers. A lot of logistics and work involved to 360 map a ski resort but maybe it's mutually beneficial for all parties no strings attached.


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## cdskier (Sep 7, 2018)

I find it a bit hard to believe Saddleback paid to have street view done on their slopes...

https://www.google.com/streetview/#ski-resorts-and-slopes/saddleback-mountain-resort

Or MRG...

https://www.google.com/streetview/#ski-resorts-and-slopes/mad-river-glen-cooperative


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 7, 2018)

Hmm... Looking at this more carefully now, it appears the 38 area ski map initiative is not a 360 tour of any ski area. Yes they are added to Google like trail maps in 2D. This would be a totally different process and something a lot easier to imagine Google would just do.

I can't find an example of a resort that's been fully 360 mapped with walking tour style navigation. Anyone have one? Any resort could pay to have it done but it's gotta be pricey. There are some resorts that have 360 views from various vantage points but a full walking tour of the trails -- let me know, I'd like to see it.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 7, 2018)

cdskier said:


> I find it a bit hard to believe Saddleback paid to have street view done on their slopes...
> 
> https://www.google.com/streetview/#ski-resorts-and-slopes/saddleback-mountain-resort
> 
> ...



Just clicked on the MRG one... you can "walk" a few paces but it's far from the whole mountain, seems a small % actually.

I'm not sure... call them up and ask what they paid for it, or if they knew a guy with a 360 camera they traded a seasons pass for some 360s.

The camera operator is clearly riding a snowmobile so it's probably not Eric Schmidt going rogue mapping the world.

Saddleback looks like the same exact snowmobile dude (same helmet) and it looks like you get a small tour of a few trails, give or take. I could probably find out who this photographer is, they're all on a list. But like I said I already know how this works and what I'm seeing confirms my suspicion, so any digging or further time spent on this won't be on my part.


----------



## cdskier (Sep 7, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Hmm... Looking at this more carefully now, it appears the 38 area ski map initiative is not a 360 tour of any ski area. Yes they are added to Google like trail maps in 2D. This would be a totally different process and something a lot easier to imagine Google would just do.
> 
> I can't find an example of a resort that's been fully 360 mapped with walking tour style navigation. Anyone have one? Any resort could pay to have it done but it's gotta be pricey. There are some resorts that have 360 views from various vantage points but a full walking tour of the trails -- let me know, I'd like to see it.



Not sure what you're talking about...the examples I posted a few minutes ago are definitely the "360 mapped walking tour style navigation". They don't have every trail (the mapping is done via snowmobile so obviously there are places they can't go).

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.952...KXbDsS6qw!2e0!3e5!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i38

And requesting a 360 video shoot of your location is a free service from Google (although there's no guarantee they will fulfill your request): https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6260931?hl=en


----------



## asnowmobiler (Sep 7, 2018)

Blue Mountain in Pa. used to have most or all their trails mapped out with 360 street view. I found it one day on their site by accident, now I can't find it on their site and when trying street view on Google Maps, the trails do not highlight. Weird?


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 7, 2018)

It looks like someone one a snowmobile took 5 trips up and down the mountain on different trails.

Call 'em up and ask who paid for it or asked for it. I would hate to have made a factually incorrect post on AlpineZone!

Good luck getting your location shot 360 by Google for free. Massive waiting list. Anyway I'm just saying what I know from actually working with these folks on numerous occasions. Probably different situation with some of these ski areas. We can guess and argue all day but I don't care about this, so let me know what you find out.


----------



## cdskier (Sep 7, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Call 'em up and ask who paid for it or asked for it. I would hate to have made a factually incorrect post on AlpineZone!
> 
> Good luck getting your location shot 360 by Google for free. Massive waiting list. Anyway I'm just saying what I know from actually working with these folks on numerous occasions. Probably different situation with some of these ski areas. We can guess and argue all day but I don't care about this, so let me know what you find out.



So let me see if I understand this...you claim they must have paid money to have it done (with no proof). I post a direct link to Google's own website saying the service is free. And yet I'm supposed to call up the areas and ask how they had it done and whether they paid because you don't believe that it could have been done for free?


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## Smellytele (Sep 7, 2018)

Tuna has been argumentative the last few days with bad evidence to back up his points.


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 7, 2018)

Just saying, as someone with a bit of time at Google, there are many different ways things get done. I believe Whistler has a large amount of the mountain mapped in 360° street view, did they or someone pay for it to be expedited around the time of Olympics? Maybe. Did Google think that maybe they would benefit if they got it done in time? Highly likely. There's also the fact that you or anyone out there can add 360° photos shot on a phone or camera array and also add that to Google Maps as a contributor. 

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 7, 2018)

cdskier said:


> So let me see if I understand this...you claim they must have paid money to have it done (with no proof). I post a direct link to Google's own website saying the service is free. And yet I'm supposed to call up the areas and ask how they had it done and whether they paid because you don't believe that it could have been done for free?



A *direct link* to Google! Wow, I guess I really have no actual experience working with 360 photographers and the API and linking up outdoor recreation businesses with photographers and then using them as promotional materials.

Didn't see that *direct link* to Google coming. Probably shouldn't have opened my mouth!



Smellytele said:


> Tuna has been argumentative the last few days with bad evidence to back up his points.



How do you manage to pull it off full-time? I can only do cranky a couple days a week, tops.


----------



## Jully (Sep 7, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> I can't find an example of a resort that's been fully 360 mapped with walking tour style navigation. Anyone have one? Any resort could pay to have it done but it's gotta be pricey. There are some resorts that have 360 views from various vantage points but a full walking tour of the trails -- let me know, I'd like to see it.





asnowmobiler said:


> Blue Mountain in Pa. used to have most or all their trails mapped out with 360 street view. I found it one day on their site by accident, now I can't find it on their site and when trying street view on Google Maps, the trails do not highlight. Weird?



This is really random, but Mt. Ashland in Oregon had a similar snowmobile thing take place on a few of their trails. I imagine this occurred at a variety of other areas too. Very questionable effectiveness of having that resource available in terms of marketing or any other reason I can think of. Who knows though, I do not work in ski industry marketing.



bdfreetuna said:


> Call 'em up and ask who paid for it or asked for it. I would hate to have made a factually incorrect post on AlpineZone!



LOL


----------



## Jully (Sep 7, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> How do you manage to pull it off full-time? I can only do cranky a couple days a week, tops.



Shots fired.


----------



## MountSnow (Sep 7, 2018)

Wow, this is starting to spiral. It's a free service. You simply apply, and if you're selected they send you one of their Google Trekker packs. At that point it's up to you to map your area. We were looking into it and in the end ran into a potential policy issue with the United States Forest Service, and so opted not to proceed. 

If you want to see what the trails look like, just come out and visit!


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## Newpylong (Sep 7, 2018)

To me the far more interesting and helpful thing is just having the trail name and rating overlay on the earth map. If I wanted a picture I would go ski it!


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 11, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Wow, this is starting to spiral.



You should see the other threads.

So "free service" as we already know, depending on waiting list and selectivity (Google would rather map out the big names first), but ultimately you gotta pay someone to cruise around with the packs. If you want to skip the unpredictable waiting list you pay for someone to do the whole thing.

Glad we have that settled and in retrospect 100% worth the argument :lol:


----------



## bdfreetuna (Sep 11, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> To me the far more interesting and helpful thing is just having the trail name and rating overlay on the earth map. If I wanted a picture I would go ski it!



Agree and what would be even more worthwhile would be unofficial lines / stashes added to the Earth map, even if it requires a special link to see.

This can be done with various apps already -- the days of secret stashes are nearly over. Between YouTube, forums and unofficial maps I can find 90% of the goods without even attempting real life social skills. And I'm glad for it. You want fresh lines go ski on a powder day like everyone else. Hidden knowledge reeks of elitism, especially when it's at the exclusion of repeat customers who seek a rigtheous challenge.


----------



## tumbler (Sep 11, 2018)

What was that heat map thing someone posted on here a while ago?  That was cool to see the stashes people were skiing.


----------



## jaytrem (Sep 11, 2018)

Shhhhh.....

https://www.strava.com/heatmap#7.00/-120.90000/38.36000/hot/all


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## MountSnow (Sep 28, 2018)

Any questions about the coming season? 
Write them below and we'll get back to you at the start of next week.

Have a great weekend!


----------



## Jully (Sep 28, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Any questions about the coming season?
> Write them below and we'll get back to you at the start of next week.
> 
> Have a great weekend!



Changes to the general trail rollout plan? Last year opening with a trail on Northface you had actually one of ghe most fun trails open for awhile. Is the plan to still start with an advanced option? Plan for more trails over there sooner?


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## sull1102 (Sep 28, 2018)

Any work done in the trees? Especially Olympic Glades and Ridge area... 

Also any noticeable improvements in mountain outside of Carinthia? (Not that anything needed it just curious if I should be on the lookout for new stuff  )

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## urungus (Sep 28, 2018)

Will the new Carinthia lodge be ready on opening day?


----------



## sull1102 (Sep 28, 2018)

urungus said:


> Will the new Carinthia lodge be ready on opening day?


It should be really, really, really close based on how far along it was just a week or two ago when I was in Dover. They have really picked up the tempo since the spring, even just the last 8 weeks it feels like they clicked it into high gear to get this thing done. I bet Sneaux will want to have the lodge open for a day or two BEFORE Thanksgiving weekend and those crowds(not terribly large but still counts) arrive. So many people are looking forward to their first day in the new building! 

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

Jully said:


> Changes to the general trail rollout plan? Last year opening with a trail on Northface you had actually one of ghe most fun trails open for awhile. Is the plan to still start with an advanced option? Plan for more trails over there sooner?



Too early to release details, but we're going ot be aiming for another very agressive opening snowmaking plan as we did last year. With this new snowmaking system our plan in to open as much terrain as physically possible, as fast as possible, once we get the temps. We really liked owning the title of most open terrain in the US for the first 6 weeks of last year's season.


----------



## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Any work done in the trees? Especially Olympic Glades and Ridge area...
> 
> Also any noticeable improvements in mountain outside of Carinthia? (Not that anything needed it just curious if I should be on the lookout for new stuff  )
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



This year was really about focusing on the Carinthia Lodge. That being said, we have a couple other great updates, such as an expansion and renovation of our craft beer bar Canned. 

As for on-mountain, we have couple projects here and there. The biggest change will be that we're moving away from the North and South lines at The Bluebird, and instead running it with just a Northside line, just like we did at the end of the season last year.


----------



## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

Any other questions?


----------



## crystalmountainskier (Oct 3, 2018)

Any plans to retire Ego Alley, Sundance, Tumbleweed or other non core lifts?


----------



## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

crystalmountainskier said:


> Any plans to retire Ego Alley, Sundance, Tumbleweed or other non core lifts?



Not at the moment. The next lift we're looking to replace will be Sunbrook.


----------



## chuckstah (Oct 3, 2018)

Any plans for a late October rail jam/ski day/photo opp on Discovery as done in the past?  

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk


----------



## drjeff (Oct 3, 2018)

Any new shiny red groomer purchases this year? I know that 3 of them arrived prior to/during last season, just curious if any more of the fleet will be replaced this year?


----------



## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

chuckstah said:


> Any plans for a late October rail jam/ski day/photo opp on Discovery as done in the past?
> 
> Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk



It's always on our minds if we get early snow/snowmaking conditions.


----------



## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Any new shiny red groomer purchases this year? I know that 3 of them arrived prior to/during last season, just curious if any more of the fleet will be replaced this year?



Not this season Jeff.


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## urungus (Oct 3, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Not at the moment. The next lift we're looking to replace will be Sunbrook.



That would be a great upgrade, assuming you are going with a high speed replacement, it would have virtually the entire mountain accessable via high speed lift.


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## sull1102 (Oct 3, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> This year was really about focusing on the Carinthia Lodge. That being said, we have a couple other great updates, such as an expansion and renovation of our craft beer bar Canned.
> 
> As for on-mountain, we have couple projects here and there. The biggest change will be that we're moving away from the North and South lines at The Bluebird, and instead running it with just a Northside line, just like we did at the end of the season last year.


Awesome news on Canned! Glad to see that idea working out and being built upon.

No God please no no no no (think Michael Scott gif) to the Bluebird lift line changes. It makes it a brutal pain in the behind if you come down on the Grand Summit side and have to skate all the way down then go back where you came from. 

In all honesty it's not the end of the world and really appreciate having that tiny bit of insider knowledge about the change of plans. 

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

urungus said:


> That would be a great upgrade, assuming you are going with a high speed replacement, it would have virtually the entire mountain accessable via high speed lift.



Exactly, except The North Face, but we like North Face the way it is.


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## MountSnow (Oct 3, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Awesome news on Canned! Glad to see that idea working out and being built upon.
> 
> No God please no no no no (think Michael Scott gif) to the Bluebird lift line changes. It makes it a brutal pain in the behind if you come down on the Grand Summit side and have to skate all the way down then go back where you came from.
> 
> ...



We're really excitied for Canned. It's been a great addition so far to the Main Base Lodge and this should really help with the flow of people through there, making it easier for everyone to get the craft beers they desire. 

As for the Bluebird Line, while it might be a bit of a shuffle when you're coming out of the Grand Summit. It really makes the line flow better which is really the most important thing. 

As for


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## Newpylong (Oct 3, 2018)

Keep those two old girls on the North Face going as long as possible, they are perfect!


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## njdiver85 (Oct 3, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> The biggest change will be that we're moving away from the North and South lines at The Bluebird, and instead running it with just a Northside line, just like we did at the end of the season last year.



This is a good move.  Less confusion for the line attendants.  However, they will need to be more vigilant about monitoring the length of the singles line as it starts to spill out past the barn.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Oct 3, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> Keep those two old girls on the North Face going as long as possible, they are perfect!



+1


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## sull1102 (Oct 3, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> This is a good move.  Less confusion for the line attendants.  However, they will need to be more vigilant about monitoring the length of the singles line as it starts to spill out past the barn.



As someone in those single lines it is brutal when they have us pushed out passed the barn out into the bottom of Canyon, I just don't see it being a totally needed change. It really should not be that hard to accomplish pulling from two sides, but I know they tended to pull from the Grand Summit side. I mean at least with the heads up I know now to just always always always make that cut over up above tower 1 and come down on the last little part of Canyon, just a pain in the butt.


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## drjeff (Oct 4, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> As someone in those single lines it is brutal when they have us pushed out passed the barn out into the bottom of Canyon, I just don't see it being a totally needed change. It really should not be that hard to accomplish pulling from two sides, but I know they tended to pull from the Grand Summit side. I mean at least with the heads up I know now to just always always always make that cut over up above tower 1 and come down on the last little part of Canyon, just a pain in the butt.



I'm guessing the singles queue lanes will start at 4 wide, and then maybe get to 8 wide if the volume demand is there, and the main queue lanes will occupy the majority of the remainder of the space out towards the Waffle Cabin with a 1 lane wide pass through to get from the Grand Summit side over to the Bluebird queue lanes and vice versa. With the single lanes on the side closest to the lodge like they were when this configuration was used at the end of last season, that also helps prevent people ducking the queue lane ropes to get across to the main queue lanes.

I'll be curious to see how this works out mid season for sure, let alone early season before enough base snow is down to make the entire queue area relatively level verses the slope towards the main lodge that it is before a few FEET of snow are down there to level things out


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## slatham (Oct 4, 2018)

That's a lot of people to people to put into a single section on the "north side". I would presume the whole coral would have to shift south to avoid the lines backing into the Canyon lift coral. Devil is in the details.

I for one see no issue, when coming from the Tumbleweed/Sundance lift area, to cut over to the North side of Bluebird. A bit more of a walk from Grand Summit, but I guess if you want to ride the BB vs the GS Express that badly you're just gonna have to stop your crying and walk a couple hundred feet.....

But again I think the main issue will be the volume of people in the area between BB and Canyon. And how scraped off that last section will be.


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## sull1102 (Oct 4, 2018)

slatham said:


> That's a lot of people to people to put into a single section on the "north side". I would presume the whole coral would have to shift south to avoid the lines backing into the Canyon lift coral. Devil is in the details.
> 
> I for one see no issue, when coming from the Tumbleweed/Sundance lift area, to cut over to the North side of Bluebird. A bit more of a walk from Grand Summit, but I guess if you want to ride the BB vs the GS Express that badly you're just gonna have to stop your crying and walk a couple hundred feet.....
> 
> But again I think the main issue will be the volume of people in the area between BB and Canyon. And how scraped off that last section will be.


That's my real issue, if you're pushing a midseason crowd all to the Northside there must be a plan to shift things around. Surely as much as I don't like feeling like a bowling pin sitting out there in the middle of the bottom of Canyon, I'm sure staff don't want that either.

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## drjeff (Oct 4, 2018)

slatham said:


> That's a lot of people to people to put into a single section on the "north side". I would presume the whole coral would have to shift south to avoid the lines backing into the Canyon lift coral. Devil is in the details.
> 
> I for one see no issue, when coming from the Tumbleweed/Sundance lift area, to cut over to the North side of Bluebird. A bit more of a walk from Grand Summit, but I guess if you want to ride the BB vs the GS Express that badly you're just gonna have to stop your crying and walk a couple hundred feet.....
> 
> But again I think the main issue will be the volume of people in the area between BB and Canyon. And how scraped off that last section will be.





sull1102 said:


> That's my real issue, if you're pushing a midseason crowd all to the Northside there must be a plan to shift things around. Surely as much as I don't like feeling like a bowling pin sitting out there in the middle of the bottom of Canyon, I'm sure staff don't want that either.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Logistically, last year late season when they went with this proposed, Northside only queue lanes, the way they had the lanes set up, and with how long each lane was, they were pretty darn close to the combined length of the North and South side queue lanes, with the singles lane just before it merged with the main queue lane for final pairing before loading not very far away from where the tower mounted fan gun at the corner of the bottom of Exhibition is, so the length of queue lane for the single line was roughly twice as long as when they had separate North and South side singles lanes, which is where the extension in crowded times out towards the queue for Canyon Quad on the Northside and the queue for the Grand Summit on the Southside were..

Now if the mountain could just get it through some peoples heads that just because you go into the singles queue in a group of 2 or 3 or more sometimes, doesn't mean that you're going to get to ride on the same chair with everyone in their party, that would be great!  If folks want to assure that they're riding with someone, use the regular queue lane, not the singles lane, as very often there's not much difference time wise for the line wait


----------



## FBGM (Oct 5, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Any new shiny red groomer purchases this year? I know that 3 of them arrived prior to/during last season, just curious if any more of the fleet will be replaced this year?



That means they would have to pay their bills on time. Heard from a very reliable sauce that kitty cat company came in and almost repossessed all of them a few years back. No payment no toy.


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## Smellytele (Oct 5, 2018)

FBGM said:


> That means they would have to pay their bills on time. Heard from a very reliable sauce that kitty cat company came in and almost repossessed all of them a few years back. No payment no toy.



EB-5 helped to avoid that?


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## drjeff (Oct 5, 2018)

FBGM said:


> That means they would have to pay their bills on time. Heard from a very reliable sauce that kitty cat company came in and almost repossessed all of them a few years back. No payment no toy.


Amazing then if what you describe from a few years back happened, that the folks at Pisten Bully would sell them a 400 park pro, a 600 and a winch cat last season, and then let them use a demo winch cat for the first few months of last season until the one they bought was off the assembly line and ready for delivery. Just amazing that they'd sell them around $1 million worth of new cats after all that...   Let alone keep selling Peak Resorts new machines at their other resorts as well

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## GregoryIsaacs (Oct 5, 2018)

OMG they financed their multi-million dollar equipment then had a bad snow year? Ring the alarm we cannot let them get away with this!


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## sull1102 (Oct 6, 2018)

Had a great time at Oktoberfest today! Really great event put on by the mountain and was really impressed with crowd size. They had at least a early/late season weekend's worth of people out there, really awesome to see people parking way out at the outer lots just to go drink some brews and ride the lifts. Congrats on a great event today.... Also saw the Pisten Bully banner flying proud at the touch-a-truck/groomer area so seems like that relationship is pretty good, just saying.


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## drjeff (Oct 11, 2018)

Any truth to the rumor I heard from a friend today that our beloved, semi hard of hearing, sometimes grumpy long time bartender in the Taproom will be putting his drink pouring talents over to one of the new establishments in the Carinthia lodge this season? 

And on a somewhat related note, given the GREAT variety of really good local and national beers available in the main base lodge in the Taproom and Canned and 1900 Burger as well as the Ball wheel, will there be an establishment in the new lodge with a similarly extensive and large taplist? 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## WWF-VT (Oct 11, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Any truth to the rumor I heard from a friend today that our beloved, semi hard of hearing, sometimes grumpy long time bartender in the Taproom will be putting his drink pouring talents over to one of the new establishments in the Carinthia lodge this season?
> 
> And on a somewhat related note, given the GREAT variety of really good local and national beers available in the main base lodge in the Taproom and Canned and 1900 Burger as well as the Ball wheel, will there be an establishment in the new lodge with a similarly extensive and large taplist?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Do you go to Mount Snow to ski or drink ?


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## drjeff (Oct 11, 2018)

WWF-VT said:


> Do you go to Mount Snow to ski or drink ?


Myself, and a good number of my ski friends are the type of consumers ski resorts crave. We buy our passes early, we're there if not every, than most every weekend they're open each season, we spend money on other programs for our kids, we buy plenty of food and beverage from the mountain establishments, we come up and enjoy what the mountain has to offer year round, we bring our friends with us, who spend money at the mountain, and yes, we have a few adult beverages too in what feels to us like our hometown bar. If partaking in the full range of activities that a resort offers makes those of us who do it somewhat less of a mountain enthusiast, so be it. Pretty sure that GM's across the country crave loyal customers who drive revenue on a year round basis, and value their opinion as to what does and doesn't work when it comes to the core crowd

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## urungus (Oct 11, 2018)

WWF-VT said:


> Do you go to Mount Snow to ski or drink ?



Says the guy with Duff beer avatar, LOL


----------



## jaytrem (Oct 11, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Myself, and a good number of my ski friends are the type of consumers ski resorts crave. We buy our passes early, we're there if not every, than most every weekend they're open each season, we spend money on other programs for our kids, we buy plenty of food and beverage from the mountain establishments, we come up and enjoy what the mountain has to offer year round, we bring our friends with us, who spend money at the mountain, and yes, we have a few adult beverages too in what feels to us like our hometown bar. If partaking in the full range of activities that a resort offers makes those of us who do it somewhat less of a mountain enthusiast, so be it. Pretty sure that GM's across the country crave loyal customers who drive revenue on a year round basis, and value their opinion as to what does and doesn't work when it comes to the core crowd
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Drunk rambling again.  

Duff beer for you, Duff beer for me, you have a Duff, I'll have one too!!!


----------



## drjeff (Oct 11, 2018)

jaytrem said:


> Drunk rambling again.  [emoji16]
> 
> Duff beer for you, Duff beer for me, you have a Duff, I'll have one too!!!


If you had any idea how far from the truth that is right now, you'd be snarfing Duff, Duff Light, Duff Dry or Duff Dark through your nose! [emoji23][emoji23]

Tomorrow marks 60 days since I last had a beer, with 15 more to go to win a challenge that my wife put me up to! She didn't think I could make it through our kids fall sports seasons without having a beer!!! Saturday, Oct 27th can't arrive soon enough!! Lol

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## jaytrem (Oct 12, 2018)

drjeff said:


> If you had any idea how far from the truth that is right now, you'd be snarfing Duff, Duff Light, Duff Dry or Duff Dark through your nose! [emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> Tomorrow marks 60 days since I last had a beer, with 15 more to go to win a challenge that my wife put me up to! She didn't think I could make it through our kids fall sports seasons without having a beer!!! Saturday, Oct 27th can't arrive soon enough!! Lol



And during football season, impressive!


----------



## skiur (Oct 12, 2018)

drjeff said:


> If you had any idea how far from the truth that is right now, you'd be snarfing Duff, Duff Light, Duff Dry or Duff Dark through your nose! [emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> Tomorrow marks 60 days since I last had a beer, with 15 more to go to win a challenge that my wife put me up to! She didn't think I could make it through our kids fall sports seasons without having a beer!!! Saturday, Oct 27th can't arrive soon enough!! Lol
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app




No beer is easy, that leaves booze and wine readily available.......what do you win after the 60 days?


----------



## Glenn (Oct 12, 2018)

drjeff said:


> If you had any idea how far from the truth that is right now, you'd be snarfing Duff, Duff Light, Duff Dry or Duff Dark through your nose! [emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> Tomorrow marks 60 days since I last had a beer, with 15 more to go to win a challenge that my wife put me up to! She didn't think I could make it through our kids fall sports seasons without having a beer!!! Saturday, Oct 27th can't arrive soon enough!! Lol
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app




Wow! Good for you Jeff! I'll raise one in your honor tonight.


----------



## tumbler (Oct 12, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Myself, and a good number of my ski friends are the type of consumers ski resorts crave. We buy our passes early, we're there if not every, than most every weekend they're open each season, we spend money on other programs for our kids, we buy plenty of food and beverage from the mountain establishments, we come up and enjoy what the mountain has to offer year round, we bring our friends with us, who spend money at the mountain, and yes, we have a few adult beverages too in what feels to us like our hometown bar. If partaking in the full range of activities that a resort offers makes those of us who do it somewhat less of a mountain enthusiast, so be it. Pretty sure that GM's across the country crave loyal customers who drive revenue on a year round basis, and value their opinion as to what does and doesn't work when it comes to the core crowd
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Sounds exactly like me.


----------



## cdskier (Oct 12, 2018)

skiur said:


> No beer is easy, that leaves booze and wine readily available.......what do you win after the 60 days?



I could do no beer for 60 days easily, but no wine would be an issue for me for sure.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 12, 2018)

skiur said:


> No beer is easy, that leaves booze and wine readily available.......what do you win after the 60 days?



The bet was no booze, of any kind, and after my 75 days, there will be no comments whatsoever from my wife when she sees the VISA bill in the coming month or so for the pair of skis that I'm thinking about buying :wink:


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## drjeff (Oct 12, 2018)

Glenn said:


> Wow! Good for you Jeff! I'll raise one in your honor tonight.



Pound a PBR-o-witz for me! LOL!


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 15, 2018)

Congrats 60/75 days off a major achievement. 

I try to set small goals.. like keep it to 3 cans on a week night. Your method is admirable though!


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## skiur (Oct 15, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Any other questions?



You guys planning to make any snow later this week?


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## urungus (Oct 15, 2018)

Will there be any non-preferred parking at Carinthia ?  How far will we have to walk now?


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## MountSnow (Oct 18, 2018)

All of the parking that existed last season will be regular parking. The preferred parking will all be new spaces that we have created in the footprint of the old base lodge.


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## MountSnow (Oct 18, 2018)

Game on! 

mountsnow.com/snow-report


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## drjeff (Oct 18, 2018)

Not asking for a definitive, hold you too it in a court of law, answer by any means. But might I want to call my favorite ski shop up in the Valley today to ask very kindly if all of my family's gear is ready for use this weekend just to be safe? 

I'm looking for any "excuse" to get out of mass quantities of yard work this coming weekend that I can find!! [emoji6]

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## sull1102 (Oct 18, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Not asking for a definitive, hold you too it in a court of law, answer by any means. But might I want to call my favorite ski shop up in the Valley today to ask very kindly if all of my family's gear is ready for use this weekend just to be safe?
> 
> I'm looking for any "excuse" to get out of mass quantities of yard work this coming weekend that I can find!! [emoji6]
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


In the same boat, my board badly needs some work done to it so wondering if I still have time to do said work or if I should be prepping for sometime in the next several days...

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## MountSnow (Oct 18, 2018)

While we're not going to announce an opening day just yet. We can tell you that it won't be this coming weekend of October 19-21.


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## sull1102 (Oct 18, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> While we're not going to announce an opening day just yet. We can tell you that it won't be this coming weekend of October 19-21.



Damn, Killington here I come!


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## drjeff (Oct 18, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> While we're not going to announce an opening day just yet. We can tell you that it won't be this coming weekend of October 19-21.


Thanks for the info. Yardwork it is then! 

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## MountSnow (Oct 22, 2018)

Whales building up on Free Fall. 

We know you're all eager for an opening day announcement. We'll see how things go today and then should hopefully have something to annouce later today...


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## sull1102 (Oct 22, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> View attachment 24101
> Whales building up on Free Fall.
> 
> We know you're all eager for an opening day announcement. We'll see how things go today and then should hopefully have something to annouce later today...


Sweet! Thanks for the update and possibility of more info some time later on today.

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## Zand (Oct 22, 2018)

Have my vacation slip ready for Thursday if you pull this off! Can't do Friday though


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## MommaBear (Oct 22, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We know you're all eager for an opening day announcement. We'll see how things go today and then should hopefully have something to annouce later today...



7:49pm.....anything to annouce?


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## chuckstah (Oct 22, 2018)

I read on Instagram that the announcement has been put off til tomorrow. Again. 

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## sull1102 (Oct 22, 2018)

This morning I was worried I would be the only one getting aggravated by being told "soon" over and over again for going on five days. It's not even Opening Day is soon it's just that they will make an announcement soon. Now it'll be six days of "soon" and I'm pretty sure they are a bit screwed. The weather is not looking great coming up here. Meanwhile they are acting like trolls over on Instagram so much so that Killington Instagram account actually made a comment on Snow's post. If they had never said there will be an announcement soon last Thursday then I don't think people would be starting to turn on them.

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## Jully (Oct 22, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> This morning I was worried I would be the only one getting aggravated by being told "soon" over and over again for going on five days. It's not even Opening Day is soon it's just that they will make an announcement soon. Now it'll be six days of "soon" and I'm pretty sure they are a bit screwed. The weather is not looking great coming up here. Meanwhile they are acting like trolls over on Instagram so much so that Killington Instagram account actually made a comment on Snow's post. If they had never said there will be an announcement soon last Thursday then I don't think people would be starting to turn on them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



It's a catch 22 though. Don't announce early enough and you don't get much of the hype. I don't primarily ski Snow, so YMMV, but I'm not miffed at all by a ski area being aggressive and trying to make an early announcement. 

Maybe better communication about the delays (e.g. a post on here by the Snow rep explaining the weather didn't go as well or a line burst or whatever) would be appreciated/cool and transparent for the mountain. 

Overall since their strategy is newly revised and we just don't know how many hours it takes for them to open at different temps, it can be frustrating. All K has to do is post videos of snowmaking starting and everyone on these boards can look at a forecast and approximate a window in which they'll be able to open (SR too, though they tend to keep their snowmaking a bit more under wraps at first... Which I dislike to some extent). We just don't know with Snow yet. It'll be different in 5 years assuming they stick to this strategy.

My ideal strategy is a mountain telling us their short term goals with the understanding that things get in the way of those goals (like weather). However, if they post "we are aiming to open the weekend of the 27th" and then don't make it, they get roasted rather than applauded for being ambitious and transparent. It creates this "announcement soon!" culture that can be mega frustrating.

TLR is I think Snow should be cut some slack. Ops (especially trying to blow TTB) in the fall is wicked hard and uncertain. I'm excited they're being aggressive and trying to make an announcement.


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## drjeff (Oct 22, 2018)

Of interest to a question/comment on the Carinthia Parks Instagram page I made today when the original post, showing a video clip of one of their team riders launching off some of the whales on the too of Cascade today, and saying that he was checking out potential locations for an opening day MAIN FACE Park location, is that *if* opening day happens this week, Long John and a Carinthia park trail WON'T be in the mix, and apparently it has nothing to do with the lodge construction at Carinthia. 

October potential opening "issues" ;-)

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## ss20 (Oct 22, 2018)

I am also in the annoyed camp of people hearing "soon".  Today was the tipping point.  I figured they'd blow til they couldn't anymore in the afternoon and then make an announcement.  What are they waiting for now?  Guns are silent and they'll be silent for a while. 

And...beggars can't be choosers...but the Mount Snow rep on here keeps us hyped every week or so through the summer and has done a GREAT job!...but there's been very little communication at what is one of the most important periods for hardcare ski enthusiasts like ourselves- when will the mountain open?  Lot's of eyes on this thread from people who don't normally go to Mount Snow but very little info besides teasers...


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## drjeff (Oct 23, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I am also in the annoyed camp of people hearing "soon".  Today was the tipping point.  I figured they'd blow til they couldn't anymore in the afternoon and then make an announcement.  What are they waiting for now?  Guns are silent and they'll be silent for a while.
> 
> And...beggars can't be choosers...but the Mount Snow rep on here keeps us hyped every week or so through the summer and has done a GREAT job!...but there's been very little communication at what is one of the most important periods for hardcare ski enthusiasts like ourselves- when will the mountain open?  Lot's of eyes on this thread from people who don't normally go to Mount Snow but very little info besides teasers...


It's pretty obvious looking at the base camp picture that there's not enough snow yet in the base area, and I'm guessing that that same statement applies to a portion of the bottom section of Canyon. 

They've got a few windows to put some more snow down later this week. They've also got a bit of an uncertain forecast now for the weekend with the remnants of the hurricane that's going to hit the West Coast of Mexico today very likely going to be bringing wind and precipitation of some yet to be determined kind on Saturday and Sunday through the region that could very well throw a monkey wrench into snow quantities down low.

It's still late October, a time where in my 25+ years as a Mount Snow loyalists, we've rarely ever been talking about multiple day snowmaking output totals and possible openings. Yes, the communications about opening could of been handled better. I would of loved to have heard what we eventually did last week after some snowmaking that they weren't going to open earlier, and something akin to this week such as "our hope is to open this X, we will know for sure on Y" because there certainly have been times when the air of secrecy that the communications folks have used, both this year and in the past has made it difficult and frustrating, even for a die-hard fan/consumer of Mount Snow as I am to try and plan out what me and my family may or may not be doing at Mount Snow the following weekend. It's not always easy, even for a ski addict family like mine is, to try and rearrange the schedules of everyone in the house on very short notice to deal with some of vague inferences about openings and some other events as have occurred in the past

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## sull1102 (Oct 23, 2018)

Get ready for something pretty soon here, Parks Crew has posted some videos about loading up and carrying some boxes and rails over to the main face with a loader. I'm getting a feeling Thursday could be the day here. Anyone else notice they've really started talking about Freefall a lot more. Wouldn't surprise me if they go Freefall, Cascade, River Run with downloading on the Bluebird(something they do all summer long so we know the lift can handle it). Hell if crowds are nut-so they could likely run both North Face triples to eliminate wait times.

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## FBGM (Oct 23, 2018)

Haha haha...soon.  Maybe tomorrow. Maybe next week. Maybe surprise. 

$50 million dollar sprinkler system is really living up the hype!


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## drjeff (Oct 23, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Haha haha...soon.  Maybe tomorrow. Maybe next week. Maybe surprise.
> 
> $50 million dollar sprinkler system is really living up the hype!



Considering that only Killington and Sunday River have done anything more than testing their systems this year, and that there's still over a week left in OCTOBER, and Mount Snow is realistically in the will opening day happen this week conversation, I'd day that the 30 million spent on the West Lake Project as well as related snowmaking system upgrades are living up the the hype.

Then again, with your bias against Peak, I'm guessing that if they were open with say 20 trails TODAY, you'd still be complaining that they don't have every snowmaking trail open yet.

The communications end around the fluid situation that surrounds opening day I agree could of been better, the effort that the mountain is putting into getting open has been impressive and as most anyone knows at this time of the year especially, sometimes that extra degree of 2 of temperature over a particular portion of the mountain makes a big difference in being able to make a decent amount of snow for opening verses not


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## sull1102 (Oct 23, 2018)

Just announced the 27th. Bad mistake unless the idea is the craptastic weather will keep crowds away. They really should have opened Friday when there is no rain forcasted.

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## njdiver85 (Oct 23, 2018)

Today's press release: "Mount Snow Ushers in Ski Season on October 27 With Earliest Opening in Resort’s 64-Year History"


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## ss20 (Oct 23, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Get ready for something pretty soon here, Parks Crew has posted some videos about loading up and carrying some boxes and rails over to the main face with a loader. I'm getting a feeling Thursday could be the day here. Anyone else notice they've really started talking about Freefall a lot more. Wouldn't surprise me if they go Freefall, Cascade, River Run with downloading on the Bluebird(something they do all summer long so we know the lift can handle it). Hell if crowds are nut-so they could likely run both North Face triples to eliminate wait times.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



On the Somerset cam you can clearly see unconnected snow patches on the bottom runout of Freefall.  Still a lot of blowing left to go.  It looks like they just have Thursday night and Friday night where it will be cold enough to blow down to the base.  

I'd say Saturday at the earliest and that is 50/50 with the weather...could be sunny, raining, icing, or snowing.


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## ss20 (Oct 23, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> Today's press release: "Mount Snow Ushers in Ski Season on October 27 With Earliest Opening in Resort’s 64-Year History"



YEP!!!

https://www.mountsnow.com/media-room/opening-day-2018-2019/



> Mount Snow, VT. – October 23, 2018 – Mount Snow, which was recently named Best Snow in The East by Ski Magazine, is pleased to announce that it will open for skiing and riding at 8:00 a.m. on Saturday, October 27 with the most skiable terrain in The East.
> 
> “Mother Nature came through with the right temperatures allowing our team to utilize the $30 million investment we made in our snowmaking system during our West Lake Water Project to celebrate the earliest opening day in our 64-year history,” said Erik Barnes, vice president & general manager of Mount Snow. “We know that skiers and riders all over The East are champing at the bit to get out there and enjoy the slopes, and we can’t wait to welcome them all on Saturday.”
> 
> On Saturday, October 27, Mount Snow will open for skiing and riding with lifts running from 8:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. Please note that there will be no beginner terrain available. Additional terrain may be added as temperatures allow for further snowmaking operations, with up-to-date trail, terrain, and conditions information available on the Snow Report. Mount Snow will start the ‘18/19 season with weekends-only operations before welcoming guests seven days a week at a date to be announced.


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## sull1102 (Oct 23, 2018)

ss20 said:


> On the Somerset cam you can clearly see unconnected snow patches on the bottom runout of Freefall.  Still a lot of blowing left to go.  It looks like they just have Thursday night and Friday night where it will be cold enough to blow down to the base.
> 
> I'd say Saturday at the earliest and that is 50/50 with the weather...could be sunny, raining, icing, or snowing.


The cam is almost totally frozen over. The picture they are using as a thumbnail is not from after the latest run of snowmaking. They were able to make a lot of progress on the run-out area in the 2nd run.

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## MountSnow (Oct 23, 2018)

See you on Saturday! 

www.mountsnow.com/october-opening


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## Bostonian (Oct 23, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> See you on Saturday!
> 
> www.mountsnow.com/october-opening



Sounds good!   I am gunning for first chair!  Or will try to!


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## MountSnow (Oct 23, 2018)

Bostonian said:


> Sounds good!   I am gunning for first chair!  Or will try to!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



See you bright and early then. You'll have to battle Smuda and a few of the other die hards.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 23, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> See you on Saturday!
> 
> www.mountsnow.com/october-opening



Probably Nor'easter Saturday-Sunday...


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## mriceyman (Oct 23, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Probably Nor'easter Saturday-Sunday...



5+ days away.. could be a snowmaker if the storm can get its act together


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## p_levert (Oct 23, 2018)

So Mt.Snow opens with top to bottom on the main face, right?  How long does it take to expand over to the north face?  The north face does seem like the best place for early season skiing, given the northern exposure and higher altitude.


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## MountSnow (Oct 23, 2018)

p_levert said:


> So Mt.Snow opens with top to bottom on the main face, right?  How long does it take to expand over to the north face?  The north face does seem like the best place for early season skiing, given the northern exposure and higher altitude.



We've actually made snow top-to-bottom on Free Fall on The North Face!


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## ghughes20 (Oct 23, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Probably Nor'easter Saturday-Sunday...



Bummer if there are wind holds on day one!!!


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## machski (Oct 23, 2018)

ghughes20 said:


> Bummer if there are wind holds on day one!!!


Yup, forecast I just heard is for super high winds Saturday.

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## urungus (Oct 23, 2018)

ghughes20 said:


> Bummer if there are wind holds on day one!!!



Not a bummer if it snows
View attachment 24103


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## slatham (Oct 23, 2018)

I think this opening day decision was extremely tough. Doesn’t seem to be much doubt they need to make some more snow, so the temp forecast Wed-Sat is obviously critical. But then there’s a pretty major Nor Easter coming. From this far out Saturday is a brutually hard forecast, especially in October! Nobody wants opening day to be a wind swept rain storm. And to make the call from today that it will be snow takes a set of brass balls. So if I find any fault in this - which given it’s still freakin October for god sakes is hard to find - is that they didn’t declare Friday opening day to have clear weather. But I have to give them credit for going for Saturday. Love to know who their weather guy is. I hope the Euro from 12z today is correct because if so it could be awesome. Whatever you do and whatever you think, THINK SNOW!!!!!


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## sull1102 (Oct 23, 2018)

slatham said:


> I think this opening day decision was extremely tough. Doesn’t seem to be much doubt they need to make some more snow, so the temp forecast Wed-Sat is obviously critical. But then there’s a pretty major Nor Easter coming. From this far out Saturday is a brutually hard forecast, especially in October! Nobody wants opening day to be a wind swept rain storm. And to make the call from today that it will be snow takes a set of brass balls. So if I find any fault in this - which given it’s still freakin October for god sakes is hard to find - is that they didn’t declare Friday opening day to have clear weather. But I have to give them credit for going for Saturday. Love to know who their weather guy is. I hope the Euro from 12z today is correct because if so it could be awesome. Whatever you do and whatever you think, THINK SNOW!!!!!



Exactly my point, how you don't open Friday with good weather I will never know.


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## chuckstah (Oct 23, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Exactly my point, how you don't open Friday with good weather I will never know.


I planned to be there Friday. The weekend is a no go. 

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## ss20 (Oct 23, 2018)

I also wanted them to be open midweek as well.  My guess is they just don't have labor up there yet.  The turnover rate for unskilled labor like lifties is just as high as you'd imagine a minimum wage, seasonal, outdoor winter job to be....no visa workers and no new hires yet means slim pickings from the experienced staff, who have a lot to do to get the mountain running still I'm sure.


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## drjeff (Oct 23, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Exactly my point, how you don't open Friday with good weather I will never know.


My hunch is after looking at the forecast the next few days and looking at the melting in the base area the last 24hrs (and I'm guessing some similarly thin areas the last couple hundred yards of Canyon) they feel that they need the combined windows of time, including Friday night, to get enough down to make sure they can open

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## MommaBear (Oct 23, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if they go Freefall, Cascade, River Run with downloading on the Bluebird(something they do all summer long so we know the lift can handle it).



They are blowing on Canyon...why would you need to download on the Bluebird?  Canyon Express chair up, River Run to NF base, NF lifts to the top.  Option to ski Free Fall on NF or come down the front on Cascade with option to head back down River Run or straight to the base on Canyon.


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## ss20 (Oct 23, 2018)

MommaBear said:


> They are blowing on Canyon...why would you need to download on the Bluebird?  Canyon Express chair up, River Run to NF base, NF lifts to the top.  Option to ski Free Fall on NF or come down the front on Cascade with option to head back down River Run or straight to the base on Canyon.



Because not enough snow could be blown on Canyon...it's gonna be close...weather keeps looking worse when it comes to snowmaking.  Thursday night might be it for being able to blow at the base, even then output will be marginal.

It's times like there I wish the hill still had 20 or so "air hogs" that could blow if it were 30 degrees out.  Just pump 'em full of air for a couple iffy nights.  Sure it'd cost a lot of $$$ but it'd certainly clear up a lot of these opening questions.


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## Bostonian (Oct 24, 2018)

The base as of 8:10 this morning.  Took a beating but, if temps drop tonight hopefully they will recover. 




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## skiur (Oct 24, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Because not enough snow could be blown on Canyon...it's gonna be close...weather keeps looking worse when it comes to snowmaking.  Thursday night might be it for being able to blow at the base, even then output will be marginal.
> 
> It's times like there I wish the hill still had 20 or so "air hogs" that could blow if it were 30 degrees out.  Just pump 'em full of air for a couple iffy nights.  Sure it'd cost a lot of $$$ but it'd certainly clear up a lot of these opening questions.



Agreed on the old air hogs guns, seems stupid that they got rid of all of them.  They can put out nice wet base building type snow at upwards of 35 degrees with enough air.  K still uses them for early season base building.


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## IceEidolon (Oct 24, 2018)

That temp stat is a little misleading since you need low low low wetbulbs to do it. Also, production volume goes down fast. The big advantage to big air isn't so much the 30+ degree option, but the 28 degree option to concentrate all on a couple trouble spots. A night at maximum workable temperature with a Ratnik, say, neither produces quality nor quantity suitable for opening.

That said, big air has its place - K hammering a small handful of trails, for instance, instead of spreading the same GPM over two or three times the area, or a 27 degree run with a handful of Rats to cover a path to the lift and fill low spots on the Opening Day route at the cost of air for a different trail.

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## Glenn (Oct 24, 2018)

slatham said:


> Love to know who their weather guy is.



I want to say it's Tony Vazzano: https://www.pressherald.com/2012/03/25/new-england-ski-areas-depend-on-savvy-weather-man_2012-03-25/


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## thebigo (Oct 24, 2018)

Bostonian said:


> The base as of 8:10 this morning.  Took a beating but, if temps drop tonight hopefully they will recover.
> 
> View attachment 24104
> 
> ...



When compared with the wildcat webcam this morning, it is hard to believe Snow will be first to open for Peak this year.



https://www.skiwildcat.com/web-cams/


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## mriceyman (Oct 24, 2018)

thebigo said:


> When compared with the wildcat webcam this morning, it is hard to believe Snow will be first to open for Peak this year.
> 
> View attachment 24105
> 
> https://www.skiwildcat.com/web-cams/



Almost 10” at the base!


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## sull1102 (Oct 24, 2018)

thebigo said:


> When compared with the wildcat webcam this morning, it is hard to believe Snow will be first to open for Peak this year.
> 
> View attachment 24105
> 
> https://www.skiwildcat.com/web-cams/


They won't be now. Wildcat is going to kick their ass this weekend by A LOTTTTTT. GOOD FOR THE CAT AND GOOD FOR NH!

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## Newpylong (Oct 24, 2018)

IceEidolon said:


> That temp stat is a little misleading since you need low low low wetbulbs to do it. Also, production volume goes down fast. The big advantage to big air isn't so much the 30+ degree option, but the 28 degree option to concentrate all on a couple trouble spots. A night at maximum workable temperature with a Ratnik, say, neither produces quality nor quantity suitable for opening.
> 
> That said, big air has its place - K hammering a small handful of trails, for instance, instead of spreading the same GPM over two or three times the area, or a 27 degree run with a handful of Rats to cover a path to the lift and fill low spots on the Opening Day route at the cost of air for a different trail.
> 
> Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk



That is exactly how we use our K Guns. When you need a pile and you need it now, like within 12 hours. We also can operate a handful of them in warmer temps along with our fan guns when our HKD Vipers are no longer putting out anything worthwhile. Some mountains were smart and didn't trade in all the big air, it has its place.


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## icecoast1 (Oct 24, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> That is exactly how we use our K Guns. When you need a pile and you need it now, like within 12 hours. We also can operate a handful of them in warmer temps along with our fan guns when our HKD Vipers are no longer putting out anything worthwhile. Some mountains were smart and didn't trade in all the big air, it has its place.



That's the smart thing to do, being 100% Low E looks good in a marketing campaign but as we've seen in the last week or two you're at a serious disadvantage in warmer temps.


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## drjeff (Oct 24, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> That's the smart thing to do, being 100% Low E looks good in a marketing campaign but as we've seen in the last week or two you're at a serious disadvantage in warmer temps.


Yup, having a few air hogs on hand for an opening push earlier than ever in late October for the immediate base area when Killington is the only other area open in VT and not even close to making snow for the public down to their base area makes perfect sense!

First world snowmaking "problems" for sure here! 

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## IceEidolon (Oct 24, 2018)

What's the opportunity cost, a couple grand in lost Efficiency Vermont credits and a few square yards of storage space?

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## ss20 (Oct 24, 2018)

They groomed out Freefall...

Saturday is tempting especially with natural snow in the forecast.  Probably more like wet glop.  I'd imagine with some traffic and wet snow maybe some bumps form.


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## urungus (Oct 24, 2018)

ss20 said:


> They groomed out Freefall...



That’s a bummer but maybe they are smoothing out the base in anticipation of making some huge new whales Thursday night


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## ss20 (Oct 24, 2018)

urungus said:


> That’s a bummer but maybe they are smoothing out the base in anticipation of making some huge new whales Thursday night



They won't be as huge as in years past if they blow and then don't groom.  Perhaps this won't make the runout at the bottom an ice luge as it has been in years past then they'd flatten out freshly blown snow right before opening.


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## ss20 (Oct 25, 2018)

Noaa Albany posted their snowmap suite... 0" low end, 4"-6" expected at Mount Snow friday night-Sunday AM...

It also looks like they're blowing up top right now as the webcams are frosted over.  No action at the base except melting hopes and dreams. :lol:


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## machski (Oct 25, 2018)

I can tell you this, K hasn't made much progress on lower SS, they are blowing now but not much down yet.  And that is what, 1000 feet higher elevation than Snow's base?  Good luck, remember its still October!

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## WJenness (Oct 25, 2018)

machski said:


> I can tell you this, K hasn't made much progress on lower SS, they are blowing now but not much down yet.  And that is what, 1000 feet higher elevation than Snow's base?  Good luck, remember its still October!
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



The fan guns down low on SS are now on. They were not a bit ago when I first looked at the web cam.

Hopefully temps are dropping.


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## machski (Oct 25, 2018)

WJenness said:


> The fan guns down low on SS are now on. They were not a bit ago when I first looked at the web cam.
> 
> Hopefully temps are dropping.


Hasn't felt it, lower half guns in North Ridge we're getting pretty wet.  They adjusted them (louder, so probably more air) and better but I'd have to say temps stable at best.  Summit almost in the clouds so wet bulb is not low, a lot of humidity around.  Wet bulb could be the same or slightly better down low away from the cloud deck and it's associated humidity.

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## WJenness (Oct 25, 2018)

machski said:


> Hasn't felt it, lower half guns in North Ridge we're getting pretty wet.  They adjusted them (louder, so probably more air) and better but I'd have to say temps stable at best.  Summit almost in the clouds so wet bulb is not low, a lot of humidity around.  Wet bulb could be the same or slightly better down low away from the cloud deck and it's associated humidity.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Thanks for the on the ground report.

Looks like K has fired up all the ground guns (K3000s?) on Supe at this point, as well as the fan guns at the base. I'm pretty sure those (ground guns) use a ton of air to get the job done.

All of the towers look to be off at this point.


----------



## IceEidolon (Oct 25, 2018)

Snowlogic towers on SS like cold way more than Techno fans or K3000/Ratnik guns. I'm not surprised there's more noise than snow right now, big air gets LOUD when it's run lean. They also make much less snow, but something is better than nothing.

Does anyone know if there's a snow inducer being used? Snowmax or Drift are the brand names.

Sent from my Life Max using Tapatalk


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## skiur (Oct 25, 2018)

To bring this thread back to Mt Snow, still nothing but patches on the base area cam, the green patches are bigger than the white ones.


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## drjeff (Oct 25, 2018)

Wouldn't surprise me at all if WHEN they get the temps in the base area that they light up a few fans on the last hundred yards or so of exhibition to try and be able to farm a little extra snow into the base area to get coverage.  It's going to be close, but I have faith that their mountain ops crew will make it happen one way or another!


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## Newpylong (Oct 25, 2018)

WJenness said:


> Thanks for the on the ground report.
> 
> Looks like K has fired up all the ground guns (K3000s?) on Supe at this point, as well as the fan guns at the base. I'm pretty sure those (ground guns) use a ton of air to get the job done.
> 
> All of the towers look to be off at this point.




Yup - up to 600 CFM each. They own around 200 K-3000s, while not all in use at once it makes you realize why they have 72,000 CFM of air again with the World Cup.

In marginal conditions they will be using all of that and not converting much water into snow, around 10 GPM at the lowest nozzle mixture.


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## drjeff (Oct 25, 2018)

Fans running in the base area for around an hour now. I'm sure the folks both on the hill making snow tonight and in the control center in the mtn ops building are closely watching the wet bulb and the on the ground output to ensure that the snow will be there for Saturday! 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## SnowRock (Oct 26, 2018)

Looking at latest forecast discussion seems like a decent shot of a few inches at Mt Snow tomorrow.  Contemplating a maniac day trip from NJ... wind looks like the X factor, but could be manageable .


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## WWF-VT (Oct 26, 2018)

SnowRock said:


> Looking at latest forecast discussion seems like a decent shot of a few inches at Mt Snow tomorrow.  Contemplating a maniac day trip from NJ... wind looks like the X factor, but could be manageable .



It's going to be a good day to test how waterproof your Gore-Tex gear is while you hope that 30 mph wind gusts don't effect lift operations.


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## slatham (Oct 26, 2018)

Mt Snow, you have one of the best CAM setups of any area. Yet right now when everyone who cares is looking at them, then are a wet, icy mess (which I know is overall good because it means snow is being made). Couldn't someone do a pass every once in a while to clear them? The base CAM at least shouldn't be inconvenient for the marketing staff.....


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## njdiver85 (Oct 26, 2018)

slatham said:


> Mt Snow, you have one of the best CAM setups of any area. Yet right now when everyone who cares is looking at them, then are a wet, icy mess (which I know is overall good because it means snow is being made). Couldn't someone do a pass everyone once in a while to clear them? The base CAM at least shouldn't be inconvenient for the marketing staff.....



Guessing the mad scramble to get the mountain open is to blame.


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## Jully (Oct 26, 2018)

njdiver85 said:


> Guessing the mad scramble to get the mountain open is to blame.



I've never worked operations at a mountain, but how much of a scramble is it to open for a place like Snow? They announced a decent bit ago.

I'm not saying it isn't a TON of work, which I'm sure it is, I'm actually saying i feel like they would be more on top of it. Maybe its the sorta thing you can never be on top of though.


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## ss20 (Oct 26, 2018)

Jully said:


> I've never worked operations at a mountain, but how much of a scramble is it to open for a place like Snow? They announced a decent bit ago.
> 
> I'm not saying it isn't a TON of work, which I'm sure it is, I'm actually saying i feel like they would be more on top of it. Maybe its the sorta thing you can never be on top of though.



I can't say for Mount Snow directly...but I don't think any mountain goes into a season fully "ready".  It's always a scramble the last few weeks.  The root always seems to be there's very little talented labor on staff in October/November to prep things given the size of the operation.


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## MountSnow (Oct 26, 2018)

slatham said:


> Mt Snow, you have one of the best CAM setups of any area. Yet right now when everyone who cares is looking at them, then are a wet, icy mess (which I know is overall good because it means snow is being made). Couldn't someone do a pass every once in a while to clear them? The base CAM at least shouldn't be inconvenient for the marketing staff.....



We're working on it, but the guns are hammering right now. We've been up to clean them about twice a day, but their heaters can't keep up with the snowguns. 

Here's an example of what we're looking at. This was our Somerset Cam yesterday.


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## MountSnow (Oct 26, 2018)

Jully said:


> I've never worked operations at a mountain, but how much of a scramble is it to open for a place like Snow? They announced a decent bit ago.
> 
> I'm not saying it isn't a TON of work, which I'm sure it is, I'm actually saying i feel like they would be more on top of it. Maybe its the sorta thing you can never be on top of though.



We'll give you a little peek behind the curtian. 

We annouced opening about a week ago and it's a whole month earlier that we were planning on opening for the season. This means that there's been about a month's worth of work to fit into just under a week. Lifts need to be tested and inspected, food and bev operations need to prepare to open for winter operations, the resort needs to transion from summer to winter (we actually just held a big mountain bike race here two weeks ago). Add on top of that the need to find staff and get them in a month earlier than planned, and you can start to see what's been going on. 

We'll be ready though. See you on Saturday.


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## tumbler (Oct 26, 2018)

ss20 said:


> I can't say for Mount Snow directly...but I don't think any mountain goes into a season fully "ready".  It's always a scramble the last few weeks.  The root always seems to be there's very little talented labor on staff in October/November to prep things given the size of the operation.



They don't start until Aug 1 when the new fiscal year starts.  Very little money in Q4 unless there are previously budget capital projects.


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## FBGM (Oct 26, 2018)

skiur said:


> To bring this thread back to Mt Snow, still nothing but patches on the base area cam, the green patches are bigger than the white ones.



Sounds like Saturday will be epic. Rain, grass and mis-management. What else could a customer ask for. 

I don’t get this push to open. Open when the product is good. Don’t rush to open just because with crap. Bragging rights are done, killington won those. Wait to open with a full and proper product.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Oct 26, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Sounds like Saturday will be epic. Rain, grass and mis-management. What else could a customer ask for.
> 
> I don’t get this push to open. Open when the product is good. Don’t rush to open just because with crap. Bragging rights are done, killington won those. Wait to open with a full and proper product.



I don't consider Free Fall top to bottom in October crap at all... Have fun not skiing though


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## FBGM (Oct 26, 2018)

I would rather do what my username monogram implies rather then ski in the rain and mud. 

Wealth of all related ski knowledge out!


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## ss20 (Oct 26, 2018)

FBGM said:


> I would rather do what my username monogram implies rather then ski in the rain and mud.
> 
> Wealth of all related ski knowledge out!



I can't wait to post pics from my trip report of lapping the AM powder on Freefall.

If you like grass and mud that's gonna be next weekend, unfortunately.  Get it now folks!  Imo K will be the only game in town next weekend unless SR and Wildcat have blown DEEP.


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## njdiver85 (Oct 26, 2018)

FBGM said:


> I would rather do what my username monogram implies rather then ski in the rain and mud.
> 
> Wealth of all related ski knowledge out!




The fact that you are always on this board posting stupid comments indicates to me that you are doing neither.


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## urungus (Oct 26, 2018)

I’ll be there for first chair, hopefully will be able to get a few laps in before it turns to sleet.  Wonder what the crowds will be like?  Last year was no issue, but this year no Long John or The Gulch to spread people out.  Hopefully the Ops team will be able to get Canyon open all the way to the bottom.


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## urungus (Oct 26, 2018)

Official snow report from 8:18 this morning:

Last night, our snowmakers were able to make some major gains from the top of Canyon down right into the base area, with our fan guns hammering the trails as the temps dipped into the low 20s. Today we plan to continue making snow on Canyon, Cascade, Free Fall, and River Run ahead of tomorrow's opening, as long as we have a window to do so, and then we'll be switching back to opening day prep. We'll be releasing details later today as to which lifts we'll be utilizing this weekend, but I can say that we'll for sure be on Challenge over on The North Face. I was up on the summit last night for sunset and the piles have started to reach 8-10 feet in places. It's really amazing what our team can do in such a short time.


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## sull1102 (Oct 26, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Sounds like Saturday will be epic. Rain, grass and mis-management. What else could a customer ask for.
> 
> I don’t get this push to open. Open when the product is good. Don’t rush to open just because with crap. Bragging rights are done, killington won those. Wait to open with a full and proper product.


In the interest of being fair, I actually agree with you here. They fudged this up a bit. It is a gorgeous bluebird day up here today and Freefall was ready to go. Tomorrow and Sunday look like a total wildcard weather wise. I was up there two weeks ago today for a beer at the Bullwheel with the lady friend and there was a lot to be done but the hoses we're already out, they knew they were going to have a chance. Then there was the crap about announcement coming "soon" when "soon" was five days away. I get you want to open, but go look at Wildcat. They are doing it right and will open with the best terrain available in the East while K is on Day 7 and open midweek. 

Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


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## slatham (Oct 26, 2018)

Mount Snow, thanks for the info and the pick. Not to mentioned the attempt to keep the cams clean. Wish I could be there for first chair, in the snow no less (hope changeover is after 3:30!).


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## Newpylong (Oct 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> In the interest of being fair, I actually agree with you here. They fudged this up a bit. It is a gorgeous bluebird day up here today and Freefall was ready to go. Tomorrow and Sunday look like a total wildcard weather wise. I was up there two weeks ago today for a beer at the Bullwheel with the lady friend and there was a lot to be done but the hoses we're already out, they knew they were going to have a chance. Then there was the crap about announcement coming "soon" when "soon" was five days away. I get you want to open, but go look at Wildcat. They are doing it right and will open with the best terrain available in the East while K is on Day 7 and open midweek.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Not really a fair comparison. Wildcat got a foot of snow and will open Lynx with one lift. Mount Snow, at much different elevation and geography is fighting with questionable weather, and has to have more qualified staff available with their configuration.


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## slatham (Oct 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> In the interest of being fair, I actually agree with you here. They fudged this up a bit. It is a gorgeous bluebird day up here today and Freefall was ready to go. Tomorrow and Sunday look like a total wildcard weather wise. I was up there two weeks ago today for a beer at the Bullwheel with the lady friend and there was a lot to be done but the hoses we're already out, they knew they were going to have a chance. Then there was the crap about announcement coming "soon" when "soon" was five days away. I get you want to open, but go look at Wildcat. They are doing it right and will open with the best terrain available in the East while K is on Day 7 and open midweek.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Uh, your kinda of forgetting that Wildcat reported a FOOT of natural snow (more up top) so not exactly apples to apples.

And forgetting that Killington's open terrain is all above 3,400'. Mount Snow's summit is only 3,600'. Not apples to apples.

I think its pretty impressive Mt Snow will be open TTB, on two faces, with expert terrain available, with a vertical of 1,600'. 

Personally I'm just happy 4 mountains are open, and bummed I can't be at any of them!

I agree that all things equal they should have opened today with the good weather (I bet they feel that way too) , but given the accelerated open I would hazard to guess that while the trails might have been ready some other necessary functions were not.


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## ss20 (Oct 26, 2018)

They're farming at the base area...good sign...realllllly hoping for TTB


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## SnowRock (Oct 26, 2018)

Effort vs reward question... Wife is heading out of town tomorrow early for work. I was thinking about getting up at 4 AM and getting on the road from NJ for Mt Snow opening since I have no other commitments. Would just shoot back home after with some VT beer in tow. 

Or do I get up at 4am and trek to Wildcat, get some turns Saturday, grab a cheap room somewhere near Conway and get in some turns Sunday as well??


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## WJenness (Oct 26, 2018)

that is a solid pile of snow up top:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpZxLsKFOKk/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


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## Jully (Oct 26, 2018)

SnowRock said:


> Effort vs reward question... Wife is heading out of town tomorrow early for work. I was thinking about getting up at 4 AM and getting on the road from NJ for Mt Snow opening since I have no other commitments. Would just shoot back home after with some VT beer in tow.
> 
> Or do I get up at 4am and trek to Wildcat, get some turns Saturday, grab a cheap room somewhere near Conway and get in some turns Sunday as well??



As someone coming from Boston willing to drive 40 extra minutes to Wildcat compared to Snow tomorrow, I do not think the extra reward of Wildcat is worth it compared to the extra driving distance (I imagine on the order of hours longer) from NJ.

If you want to ski Sunday, I'd grab a room in VT and do 2 days at Snow rather than the Cat.

Just my 2 cents though!


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## SnowRock (Oct 26, 2018)

Thanks and yeah I'm  leaning that way as well... significantly more effort involved in the wildcat option!


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## MommaBear (Oct 26, 2018)

SnowRock said:


> Effort vs reward question... Wife is heading out of town tomorrow early for work. I was thinking about getting up at 4 AM and getting on the road from NJ for Mt Snow opening....



You will be behind/in the storm the whole way at that hour.  Local (CT) forecast calling for the storm to be pulling in to CT midnight/2AM.  Starting here as slop.  Be prepared for some slick roads between CT and VT.


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## urungus (Oct 26, 2018)

4:13 PM FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2018
Opening day is officially at hand as we’ll be skiing and riding tomorrow morning starting at 8:00 a.m.

Last night, our snowmakers were able to make some major gains from the top of Canyon right down into the base area, with our fan guns hammering the trails as the temps dipped into the low 20s. Throughout today, they kept at it as long as possible and with several guns still going as I type this, we can confidently say that we plan to open tomorrow morning with top-to-bottom skiing and riding.

At 8:00 a.m. tomorrow the plan is to begin spinning our Canyon Express and Challenger lifts which will access skiing and riding on Cascade, Free Fall, River Run, and Canyon. While Canyon will be open for skiing, it has had the least amount of time for snowmaking operations, so we recommend using this trail only for access back down to the main base area, and not for lapping. That being said, Free Fall is looking mint! Note: Early season conditions do exist and there will be no beginner terrain available tomorrow. There is a potential for some high winds tomorrow which could potentially cause wind holds, so please check the snow report for updates throughout the day. 

For those of you looking to ride park, our Carinthia Diggers have been up building a special early season park over on Cascade Flats, where we will plan to offer 6-10 features depending on how things go this evening. Note: There will be no trails running to Carinthia, so there will be no skier services or lifts running out of that base area to start the season.


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## slatham (Oct 26, 2018)

SnowRock said:


> Thanks and yeah I'm  leaning that way as well... significantly more effort involved in the wildcat option!



I have not yet, but take a close look at the weather at Wildcat. Mt Snow changes over probably before closing. Wildcat holds snow much longer. Again I haven't looked but you should.....


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## Smellytele (Oct 26, 2018)

slatham said:


> I have not yet, but take a close look at the weather at Wildcat. Mt Snow changes over probably before closing. Wildcat holds snow much longer. Again I haven't looked but you should.....



wildcat shows snow until after they close. Snow shows mix in the morning and rain after noon.


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## sull1102 (Oct 26, 2018)

Ouch. No Bluebird, on a day with shit weather very likely (yes could be a magical winter wonderland) that's a really tough decision someone had to make over in West Dover. Challenger might end having quite the lift line, but I'm wondering if tough weather will keep the crowds away. Also wonder when the last time was that it served as the main lift of the mountain for a weekend. 

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## ss20 (Oct 26, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Ouch. No Bluebird, on a day with shit weather very likely (yes could be a magical winter wonderland) that's a really tough decision someone had to make over in West Dover. Challenger might end having quite the lift line, but I'm wondering if tough weather will keep the crowds away. Also wonder when the last time was that it served as the main lift of the mountain for a weekend.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



They recommend only using Canyon trail to get back to the base area.  So I'd imagine it's in pretty rough shape.  They want people to stick to the Freefall or the Cascade/River Run routes I guess.  

Idk...models keep trending colder...looks like it will certainly change over but not till noon or later.


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## drjeff (Oct 26, 2018)

So the fact that my kids social plans (including hosting a Halloween party tomorrow night for my youngest) now have me not feeling as bad about watching game 4 of the World Series here at my house in CT as opposed to at my condo at Mount Snow!! 

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## sull1102 (Oct 26, 2018)

Yeah I'm not nearly as bummed about having to work tomorrow as I thought I was going to be. I'll still go over Sunday for some turns though.

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## Smellytele (Oct 27, 2018)

drjeff said:


> So the fact that my kids social plans (including hosting a Halloween party tomorrow night for my youngest) now have me not feeling as bad about watching game 4 of the World Series here at my house in CT as opposed to at my condo at Mount Snow!!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Hopefully game 4 gets over before 3:30 in the morning! Stayed up and watch that depressing game 3.


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## ss20 (Oct 27, 2018)

Here now...8am start.  Snow and sleet has turned into mostly sleet with some rain the final hundred couple feet of Canyon.  Freefall very slick, Cascace pretty good, River run pretty good but crowded.  Canyon has the best snow for sure but is very narrow...WROD...

Maybe .5" of sleet on the ground up top.  Mixing in pretty well with snow surfaces.  Lot's of peeps and it's the typical Mt. Snow crowd...so look over your shoulder :lol:

Visibility is poor up top with fog but is OK most of the way down.  Solid day.  I'm in for lunch now as I had become soaked.  Looks like a much drier afternoon than forecasted.


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## heiusa (Oct 27, 2018)

Not depressing if you are a Yankee's fan rooting for the Dodgers!


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## urungus (Oct 27, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Here now...8am start.  Snow and sleet has turned into mostly sleet with some rain the final hundred couple feet of Canyon.  Freefall very slick, Cascace pretty good, River run pretty good but crowded.  Canyon has the best snow for sure but is very narrow...WROD...
> 
> Maybe .5" of sleet on the ground up top.  Mixing in pretty well with snow surfaces.  Lot's of peeps and it's the typical Mt. Snow crowd...so look over your shoulder :lol:
> 
> Visibility is poor up top with fog but is OK most of the way down.  Solid day.  I'm in for lunch now as I had become soaked.  Looks like a much drier afternoon than forecasted.



WROD indeed.  Bottom of Canyon is in pretty rough shape, given the warmup and rain forecast I will be impressed if they are able to maintain top-to-bottom next weekend.


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## urungus (Oct 27, 2018)

Despite the photo, there was solid coverage on Cascade, River Run, Free Fall and the top of Canyon though.  Free Fall was a little scrapey here and there but I had no problems getting an edge.  It is a shame that they groomed out all the whales.  I must be improving because Free Fall no longer seems that steep, hopefully I will have the nerve to try Ripcord this year.   No wait at the lift lines, but it was a little crowded out on the trails, agree with the comment about looking over your shoulder.


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## FBGM (Oct 27, 2018)

That pic looks horrible.


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## slatham (Oct 27, 2018)

Fugly. Computer models show a short and marginal window on Monday night followed by more r@*&!! Neither the Euro or GFS have cold returning until sometime around the weekend of the 10th. Now thats a ways away so things can change, but there are lots of indications that the temps will moderate until mid month November before starting a step down as we head toward the end of the month and Thanksgiving. Just calling it as I see it. Not happy about it, except the part where it gets cold going into Thanksgiving.....


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## sull1102 (Oct 27, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Hopefully game 4 gets over before 3:30 in the morning! Stayed up and watch that depressing game 3.


Man staying up to 4 was hard, but even taking the L that was one of the greatest ball games ever played by far. What an amazing performance by both squads! Back at it tonight, ride tomorrow, then Game 5 LETS GO!!!!

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## sull1102 (Oct 27, 2018)

heiusa said:


> Not depressing if you are a Yankee's fan rooting for the Dodgers!


Nah it's still depressing for a Yankees fan deep down cause your team sucks, has a bleak future at best(Judge was beyond great at the plate and you still sucked) oh and got the bag beat out of them in the worst playoff loss in franchise history on your own field lmao

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## heiusa (Oct 27, 2018)

As one of the most successful sports clubs in the world, the Yankees have won 18 division titles, 40 AL pennants, and 27 World Series championships, all of which are MLB records.


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## Glenn (Oct 28, 2018)

Nice work Mount Snow! Opening before Halloween is impressive. 

What kind of cameras are you using at the mountain? Are the housings part of the camera or separate from the camera?


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## Smellytele (Oct 28, 2018)

heiusa said:


> As one of the most successful sports clubs in the world, the Yankees have won 18 division titles, 40 AL pennants, and 27 World Series championships, all of which are MLB records.



Most before the days of free agency and then before the salary cap.


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## icecoast1 (Oct 28, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Most before the days of free agency and then before the salary cap.



Also mostly before the modern playoff format


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## sull1102 (Oct 28, 2018)

heiusa said:


> As one of the most successful sports clubs in the world, the Yankees have won 18 division titles, 40 AL pennants, and 27 World Series championships, all of which are MLB records.


And how many in the 21st Century? How many in in your lifetime? God I love you clown Yankee fans. We beat your behinds worse than you have ever experienced in the playoffs ON YOUR OWN FIELD IN FRONT OF YOUR OWN FANS and sent you packing. 

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## Higgl (Oct 28, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> And how many in the 21st Century? How many in in your lifetime? God I love you clown Yankee fans. We beat your behinds worse than you have ever experienced in the playoffs ON YOUR OWN FIELD IN FRONT OF YOUR OWN FANS and sent you packing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Its like France saying they are a tremendous military power because of Napoleon. Forgetting more recent history and the reality of today.


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## Higgl (Oct 28, 2018)

Back on track - is anyone there today? I have not heard any reports on how the rain is doing in VT or anywhere else in NE for that matter.


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## sull1102 (Oct 28, 2018)

Higgl said:


> Back on track - is anyone there today? I have not heard any reports on how the rain is doing in VT or anywhere else in NE for that matter.


I'm up at the Bullwheel now drying off. It's a steady mist but bearable

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## NYDB (Oct 28, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> And how many in the 21st Century? How many in in your lifetime? God I love you clown Yankee fans. We beat your behinds worse than you have ever experienced in the playoffs ON YOUR OWN FIELD IN FRONT OF YOUR OWN FANS and sent you packing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app




You know you aren't on the team right?  I think you may be a little too worked up over watching your favorite team and drinking beer.


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## sull1102 (Oct 28, 2018)

NY DirtBag said:


> You know you aren't on the team right?  I think you may be a little too worked up over watching your favorite team and drinking beer.


Thought we were back on the topic at hand aka Mount Snow, but alrighty then! Another bitter Yankees fan, it's okay man, your team blows and got completely embarrassed on their home field while we are one win away from our 4th World Series win in 14 years. Y'all have won just 1 in that time and the ten year mark is fast approaching on that while the future does not look bright for the franchise any time soon. Also, don't drink much if ever usually just for some apres festivities at the mountain so try again lol

Now on to what people actually came here... Mt Snow was pretty great today given the weather. The snow was really good up top and ultra thin on the last half of Canyon. Not sure exactly how they could reopen next weekend without a pretty good long window to fill in Canyon and the very end of the run-out on Freefall. One interesting note, it looked like there was once a plan to open the Bluebird for this weekend based on my observations. Down at the base the guns were clearly focused on the barn area more than over at the Canyon Quad while up top the groomers had built a nice unloading ramp up and it was ready to go. The summit was done in the normal way to allow for a lot of traffic and options off the BB with the two routes to Cascade on either side of the terminal opened up with good depth.

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## icecoast1 (Oct 28, 2018)

Doesnt look like much snow making weather until almost a couple weeks from now, but maybe they'll get lucky


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## sull1102 (Oct 28, 2018)

icecoast1 said:


> Doesnt look like much snow making weather until almost a couple weeks from now, but maybe they'll get lucky


I'll say it right now they have no shot of Canyon being open next weekend without snowmaking. Might do a download on it or the BB. that small window in a few nights won't be enough but up top they're pretty deep

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## urungus (Oct 28, 2018)




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## sull1102 (Oct 28, 2018)

urungus said:


> View attachment 24118


Forecast I saw had I think Tuesday night getting 5-10° colder than what Weather Underground is looking like. 

Oh forgot to mention Carinthia looks fantastic, but far from done.

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## ss20 (Oct 28, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> I'll say it right now they have no shot of Canyon being open next weekend without a lot of snowmaking. Might do a download on it or the BB. that small window in a few nights won't be enough but up top they're pretty deep
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



They're gonna need to HAMMER the bottom of Canyon.  It _will_ melt-out completely by midway through this week and they'll be starting from scratch.  Good news is plenty of snow up top if they want to push it down...

I don't think I've been on such a WROD.  I mean...the last 1/4 of that trail was 1-1.5 cat-tracks wide.  Crazy.  Really nice snow though.  I will say between Freefall being slick and fast and Canyon being soft and sping-like...the variety of snow conditions was pretty cool.   

I guess when they farm snow in May the "runout" to the Superstar lift at the bottom of Supe is similar but that's flat and short.  That's the only analogy I can think of.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 29, 2018)

Most years the bottom of Bretton Woods first trail open is a cat track wide for a couple hundred yards, water bars not filled in and involves open grass/mud areas by the end of the day.

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## crazy (Oct 29, 2018)

I am getting a bit worried about this weekend looking at the forecast. Tonight and tomorrow night are the only times when they can blow snow before the rain later in the week.


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## sull1102 (Oct 29, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> Most years the bottom of Bretton Woods first trail open is a cat track wide for a couple hundred yards, water bars not filled in and involves open grass/mud areas by the end of the day.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


Having done BW Opening Day a few times back in 2014 Mount Snow had more than that mess, but not a whole lot more.

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## MountSnow (Oct 30, 2018)

Glenn said:


> Nice work Mount Snow! Opening before Halloween is impressive.
> 
> What kind of cameras are you using at the mountain? Are the housings part of the camera or separate from the camera?



Our Somerset Camera is a Prism Cam which is essentially a Canon DSLR camera inside of a heated housing. They work great except when we have snowguns pointed right at them!


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## MountSnow (Oct 30, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Thought we were back on the topic at hand aka Mount Snow, but alrighty then! Another bitter Yankees fan, it's okay man, your team blows and got completely embarrassed on their home field while we are one win away from our 4th World Series win in 14 years. Y'all have won just 1 in that time and the ten year mark is fast approaching on that while the future does not look bright for the franchise any time soon. Also, don't drink much if ever usually just for some apres festivities at the mountain so try again lol
> 
> Now on to what people actually came here... Mt Snow was pretty great today given the weather. The snow was really good up top and ultra thin on the last half of Canyon. Not sure exactly how they could reopen next weekend without a pretty good long window to fill in Canyon and the very end of the run-out on Freefall. One interesting note, it looked like there was once a plan to open the Bluebird for this weekend based on my observations. Down at the base the guns were clearly focused on the barn area more than over at the Canyon Quad while up top the groomers had built a nice unloading ramp up and it was ready to go. The summit was done in the normal way to allow for a lot of traffic and options off the BB with the two routes to Cascade on either side of the terminal opened up with good depth.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



We covered the full base area in snow to be able to run the Grand Summit Express for downloading if needed.


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## sull1102 (Oct 30, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We covered the full base area in snow to be able to run the Grand Summit Express for downloading if needed.


That leads me to asking What is up with the Bluebird then? I saw a few bubbles over near the shops on Sunday. Also do you see any chance at all to make some snow this week for Saturday/Sunday?

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## Glenn (Oct 30, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Our Somerset Camera is a Prism Cam which is essentially a Canon DSLR camera inside of a heated housing. They work great except when we have snowguns pointed right at them!




Very cool...thanks!


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## sull1102 (Oct 30, 2018)

https://youtu.be/_B7i2e62dxE put together a short video from Sunday if anyone is interested, with the new Hero7 Black GoPro. Freefall shows up about halfway through. Camera is great, video could be better the lens just kept getting so wet all day. I used the Quik app which sort of just edits the video for you which is nice if you just want something done fast.

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## drjeff (Oct 30, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> That leads me to asking What is up with the Bluebird then? I saw a few bubbles over near the shops on Sunday. Also do you see any chance at all to make some snow this week for Saturday/Sunday?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


Probably just annual pre ski season maintenance. Usually once the leaf peeping/Bullwheel season is done, they have a few weeks to do the annual maintenance to the grips and hydraulics on the bubble opening mechanism. With opening last weekend just 6 days after the Bullwheel closed it's "fall operations" I'm suspecting that maintenance window didn't pan out like they were expecting..



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## asnowmobiler (Oct 30, 2018)

Do you think you will be open this weekend?


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## sull1102 (Oct 30, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Probably just annual pre ski season maintenance. Usually once the leaf peeping/Bullwheel season is done, they have a few weeks to do the annual maintenance to the grips and hydraulics on the bubble opening mechanism. With opening last weekend just 6 days after the Bullwheel closed it's "fall operations" I'm suspecting that maintenance window didn't pan out like they were expecting..
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


I think they had a couple weeks between "seasons" as I was up there the last day of foliage rides and then they started making snow a few days afterwards saying opening "soon"

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## FBGM (Oct 31, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> Do you think you will be open this weekend?



Not a chance. 

By looks of weather Killy might be done as well. Looks warm and wet, and not in the good way


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## Pez (Oct 31, 2018)

It’s really dumb to waste the time and money on opening in the northeast before the time change.  


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## sull1102 (Oct 31, 2018)

Pez said:


> It’s really dumb to waste the time and money on opening in the northeast before the time change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Unless you understand the marketing game, then it's a nice boost and when it's only you and the Beast then it's even better. Better than being Stratton not even trying and having passholders talk about it on social media. 

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## Smellytele (Oct 31, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Unless you understand the marketing game, then it's a nice boost and when it's only you and the Beast then it's even better. Better than being Stratton not even trying and having passholders talk about it on social media.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


  2 others were open as well


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## sull1102 (Oct 31, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> 2 others were open as well


In Vermont you had two, TTB you also had only two although SR I'm sure you could make your way if you were on rock skis. NYC and NJ market is likely not making the trek over to Wildcat or Sunday River. Wildcat had the best offering by a long shot, but still my point is the early season push is for marketing and it works very well for that purpose especially going into ski show season. 

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## Smellytele (Oct 31, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> In Vermont you had two, TTB you also had only two although SR I'm sure you could make your way if you were on rock skis. NYC and NJ market is likely not making the trek over to Wildcat or Sunday River. Wildcat had the best offering by a long shot, but still my point is the early season push is for marketing and it works very well for that purpose especially going into ski show season.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



I agree with your last sentence


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## machski (Oct 31, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Not a chance.
> 
> By looks of weather Killy might be done as well. Looks warm and wet, and not in the good way


Sorry, Killy long from done.  Heck, they were making snow all day yesterday and last night, including new terrain up on Killington Peak.

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## Smellytele (Oct 31, 2018)

machski said:


> Sorry, Killy long from done.  Heck, they were making snow all day yesterday and last night, including new terrain up on Killington Peak.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



upper dipper


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## Jully (Oct 31, 2018)

Pez said:


> It’s really dumb to waste the time and money on opening in the northeast before the time change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



If it was dumb, you'd see fewer resorts being aggressive rather than more. Snow and Wildcat are new players, K took a few years off and is now back. Even after 15-16 resorts continued to do it. Not dumb at all IMO. It should be done cautiously for sure, but I'm real glad places do it and they get my money because of it.


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## slatham (Oct 31, 2018)

I agree that (other than for marketing) for areas South and low there is an argument as to whether an October opening makes sense. But not Killington, especially North Ridge. This area is above 3,200’ and extends to 4,000’. The weather up there is not October. They made snow the other day Round the clock when others were shut down, even at night. They have pounded North Ridge, and are locked in. They will not close from lack of coverage. Hell it was warmer last February than it will be over the next week. Then it’s back......

I still find it impressive what Mt Snow has showed so far, and people thinking of winter ski trips are paying attention.


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## ss20 (Oct 31, 2018)

If a resort can cover 5-10 trails before Thanksgiving then they can focus their resources on 5-10 MORE trails for Christmas break when the $$$ is made... this is especially true for the big places like K, Mount Snow, Okemo, Stowe, SR- where even in a decent year for snowmaking they will not have covered all their snowmaking terrain by Christmas week.


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## MountSnow (Nov 1, 2018)

asnowmobiler said:


> Do you think you will be open this weekend?



Weekend Operations Update:
Due to an incoming weather system, we're going to remain closed through Saturday, and plan to reopen Sunday, Nov 4th at 8:00 a.m.

Details at mountsnow.com/snow-report
#welovesnow
#wedontloverain


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## MountSnow (Nov 1, 2018)

Pez said:


> It’s really dumb to waste the time and money on opening in the northeast before the time change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Not at all, we had a great group show up on Saturday and Sunday. We view it as bonus skiing, and what's so wrong with that?


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## MountSnow (Nov 1, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Probably just annual pre ski season maintenance. Usually once the leaf peeping/Bullwheel season is done, they have a few weeks to do the annual maintenance to the grips and hydraulics on the bubble opening mechanism. With opening last weekend just 6 days after the Bullwheel closed it's "fall operations" I'm suspecting that maintenance window didn't pan out like they were expecting..
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Bingo! You nailed it. There's all sorts of maintenance and inspections that need to happen between summer and winter operations. Also, for those of you who have asked about the bubbles that are out in the parking lot by lift ops. Those have been temporarily taken off the line for NDT (non-destructive testing) which is part of our annual maintenance plan.


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## sull1102 (Nov 1, 2018)

Oh wow so you guys really are or were scrambling if NDT hadn't been done on the Bird yet! 

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## MountSnow (Nov 1, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Oh wow so you guys really are or were scrambling if NDT hadn't been done on the Bird yet!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Well, we were originally shooting for November 17th as an opening date, with November 10th being our early stretch date.


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## sull1102 (Nov 1, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Well, we were originally shooting for November 17th as an opening date, with November 10th being our early stretch date.


Oh I know, if anything not even having the main lift all ready for the season makes it more impressive what you did last weekend getting open! How are you feeling about Sunday? Do you think downloading is likely and if so is the bird ready to fly?

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## urungus (Nov 1, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Oh I know, if anything not even having the main lift all ready for the season makes it more impressive what you did last weekend getting open! How are you feeling about Sunday? Do you think downloading is likely and if so is the bird ready to fly?



Downloading will be mandatory and it will be done by the Grand Summit Express as per the trail report http://www.mountsnow.com/snow-report


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## crazy (Nov 1, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Not at all, we had a great group show up on Saturday and Sunday. We view it as bonus skiing, and what's so wrong with that?



I for one am very happy that Mount Snow and Wildcat both opened up well ahead of schedule for some bonus October and early November skiing. I don't have a Peaks Pass this season, but your willingness to get things open as soon as you can is totally awesome, and I will keep it in mind when making pass decisions for next season :smile: (and even though I don't have a Peaks Pass, I'm sure I will ski for a few days between Wildcat and Mount Snow, probably mostly early and late season).


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## Jully (Nov 1, 2018)

I wasn't at Snow this past weekend, but the Wildcat parking lot was as full as I've ever seen it. They got a super crowd.


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## sull1102 (Nov 1, 2018)

Jully said:


> I wasn't at Snow this past weekend, but the Wildcat parking lot was as full as I've ever seen it. They got a super crowd.


At least for Sunday the same could not be said for Mount Snow. Course I've also been there in the busiest days off the year with 11,000 people so tough to compare. They had a really good group for such an early opening weekend, just not to the level that Wildcat had.

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## sull1102 (Nov 4, 2018)

Went out today for my second day this year and Snow's third. Wow it was a rough week for the mountain, the fact that they opened today proved to me that there are some serious diehard skiers/riders calling the shots because I seriously doubt many mountains would open with the amount of work that was required by the groomers. Canyon is totally gone, they'll be starting from scratch when they start snowmaking again. Up top it's clear they blew A TON of snow a couple weeks ago when they had the chance. Freefall was a true WROD for the bottom half, same for all of River Run. Cascade was alright, good for early season, but they pulled the plug on the park due to losing trail width with the melt out this week. Overall just a huge day to show what mtn ops can and will do to be one of 9 ski areas open in North America! 

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## Newpylong (Nov 4, 2018)

What is up with running both Canyon and GSE?    $$$


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## sull1102 (Nov 4, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> What is up with running both Canyon and GSE?    $$$



I had the same thought when I was there, but I came up with two reasons, one Cascade was in rough shape near the top of Canyon Quad and getting over to the top station from that spot would not be the easiest of maneuvers with the crowding that was happening(there were WAY TOO MANY people with no business being out there today trying to learn to ski/board) so maybe played a role. More importantly though, think about the bottom of Canyon and how they load at a 90 degree angle. While not impossible to download with that config at the base, it doesn't make it very easy. Also GS was run at less than half speed for most of the day and they were doing pulse downloading grouping people ten chairs at a time so honestly probably was not using tons of power.


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## Jully (Nov 4, 2018)

Why not just use GSE for uploading and downloading? Agreed Canyon would have been tough to do both.


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## FBGM (Nov 5, 2018)

Seems like this was a waste. Of money and snow. And more rain to come. Bye bye.


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## sull1102 (Nov 5, 2018)

FBGM said:


> Seems like this was a waste. Of money and snow. And more rain to come. Bye bye.


Ehh I got two days out, they got good press out of it going into the ski shows, so not a waste. Looking ahead starting Saturday night they should be able to lay down a lot of snow and get a lot of terrain open.

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## MountSnow (Nov 5, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> What is up with running both Canyon and GSE?    $$$



Logistically it's much easier for us to run the two lifts, with one for uploading and one for downloading. Trying to do both on the same lift really impacts the efficiency, operations, and overall guest exerience. Worth it for us to run both of them.


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## MountSnow (Nov 5, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Ehh I got two days out, they got good press out of it going into the ski shows, so not a waste. Looking ahead starting Saturday night they should be able to lay down a lot of snow and get a lot of terrain open.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Not to mention the fact that we got to add in two bonus profitable weekends that we weren't even counting on having.


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## sull1102 (Nov 5, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> Not to mention the fact that we got to add in two bonus profitable weekends that we weren't even counting on having.


That's awesome, hopefully that encourages you guys to keep up the early season push in years to come!

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## MountSnow (Nov 5, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> That's awesome, hopefully that encourages you guys to keep up the early season push in years to come!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



As we finished our $30M snowmaking upgrade last season, we came out and said that our plan is always to be a major player in the early season. We'll leave May and June up to the guys up North though. Wildcat is prime for that game.


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## thebigo (Nov 6, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> We'll leave May and June up to the guys up North though. Wildcat is prime for that game.



This may be a Mt Snow thread but this comment is too intriguing to remain idle. Are you stating there will be a concerted effort to go deeper into May by wildcat? 

It is good to hear the early season weekends are profitable. Count me as part of the group that buys peak passes and steers our several thousand dollar family ski budget to peak because wildcat gets open early season. We would probably get cannon passes if wildcat did not compete early season; now if wildcat also competed late season they would get all those nh and maine dollars normally earmarked for killington.


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## ss20 (Nov 6, 2018)

thebigo said:


> This may be a Mt Snow thread but this comment is too intriguing to remain idle. Are you stating there will be a concerted effort to go deeper into May by wildcat?
> 
> It is good to hear the early season weekends are profitable. Count me as part of the group that buys peak passes and steers our several thousand dollar family ski budget to peak because wildcat gets open early season. We would probably get cannon passes if wildcat did not compete early season; now if wildcat also competed late season they would get all those nh and maine dollars normally earmarked for killington.



Killington will always have the best late season setup, hands down.  Given its location, accessibility, party scene, reputation, and the north-facing exposure of Superstar no other mountain could come close to what Killington offers.


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## urungus (Nov 6, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Killington will always have the best late season setup, hands down.  Given its location, accessibility, party scene, reputation, and the north-facing exposure of Superstar no other mountain could come close to what Killington offers.



Would be cool if Mt Snow used their new system to build up a Superstar style glacier on north-facing Freefall and give Killington some springtime competition.  It would cut the drive time for me in half, and I’m confident I would be able to find some partiers at Cuzzins.  Doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen though.


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## urungus (Nov 6, 2018)

Not sure there will be anything left after today’s r**n, but then things are starting to look very good


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## MountSnow (Nov 6, 2018)

thebigo said:


> This may be a Mt Snow thread but this comment is too intriguing to remain idle. Are you stating there will be a concerted effort to go deeper into May by wildcat?
> 
> It is good to hear the early season weekends are profitable. Count me as part of the group that buys peak passes and steers our several thousand dollar family ski budget to peak because wildcat gets open early season. We would probably get cannon passes if wildcat did not compete early season; now if wildcat also competed late season they would get all those nh and maine dollars normally earmarked for killington.



We're not going to comment for Wildcat, but they are best set up of all of the Peak Resorts to run into the late season. As for early season, we'll still battle for them for Peak Resorts' First Open honors, but their location gives them an advantage for sure.


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## ss20 (Nov 6, 2018)

urungus said:


> Would be cool if Mt Snow used their new system to build up a Superstar style glacier on north-facing Freefall and give Killington some springtime competition.  It would cut the drive time for me in half, and I’m confident I would be able to find some partiers at Cuzzins.  Doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen though.



But then you'd have to run one of the main face lifts to get there...that's a lot of $$$.  And you lose the tailgate scene Killington has.  I also don't think Freefall is wide enough for a Superstar-esque "spine" of snow.


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## MountSnow (Nov 6, 2018)

urungus said:


> Would be cool if Mt Snow used their new system to build up a Superstar style glacier on north-facing Freefall and give Killington some springtime competition.  It would cut the drive time for me in half, and I’m confident I would be able to find some partiers at Cuzzins.  Doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen though.



We don't have the right lift system to pull that off. Think about it, if we did that on Freefall, we'd still need to run one base-to-summit lift on the Main Face to get guests up and down, and then would need to run Challenger as well. The economics of late season activities, which tend to be much lower attendence than early season and mostly consist of brown bag lunches and beers on a tailgate, just don't make it viable to run two lifts.


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## MountSnow (Nov 6, 2018)

ss20 said:


> But then you'd have to run one of the main face lifts to get there...that's a lot of $$$.  And you lose the tailgate scene Killington has.  I also don't think Freefall is wide enough for a Superstar-esque "spine" of snow.



You read our minds.


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## Newpylong (Nov 6, 2018)

The only area that would fit the bill from an accessibility and trail characteristic perspective is something on Carinthia. Likely Nitro or Inferno. 1 lift, 1 medium length run, close (nice new) base facility, etc. Already a sh*t ton of snow there anyway.

Elevation and direction are the negatives.


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## ss20 (Nov 6, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> The only area that would fit the bill from an accessibility and trail characteristic perspective is something on Carinthia. Likely Nitro or Inferno. 1 lift, 1 medium length run, close (nice new) base facility, etc. Already a sh*t ton of snow there anyway.
> 
> Elevation and direction are the negatives.



I second the thought that Carinthia would be a very nice setup for later-in-April skiing.  Mow down the huge jumps and features, of course.  They used to finish the season on just Carinthia/Long John but it's been years since that setup.


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## sull1102 (Nov 6, 2018)

I'll jump on the Carinthia spring train as well. I think Nitro/Mine Shaft/Inferno could last quite a while given the right weather. Nitro could last a longgggg time when you spread those jumps out and just keep some rails/boxes out to keep people happy. Although I have seen all of melt out REAL fast before.

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## IceEidolon (Nov 6, 2018)

Once that snow gets skied and tilled, it goes quick. But I'd sure be willing to help ski it away.

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## drjeff (Nov 6, 2018)

The issue, aside from it's elevation (or lack there of) and Easterly exposure in general for the slopes of Carinthia, is no matter which snowmaking trail you'd attempt to go super deep late season on, you've got a couple hundred yard (if not more) of flats to deal with, which would require a MASSIVE amount of snow to go really late on.

Even maybe 4 or 5 seasons ago now when the reopened for one weekend in late April on Carinthia and Beartrap, when they pushed out the jumps on some of the trails to make a continuous run, the amount of snow in those jumps spreads out much "thinner" than many, who aren't in the mountain ops business, thought it would.

Remember, Killington goes LATE with Superstar because the essentially make a depth of snow that equals the height of many of the big jumps at Carinthia, the entire length of the trail!! A BIG difference in the amount of snow Mount Snow produces on any 1 trail at Carinthia

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## Keelhauled (Nov 6, 2018)

Flats just don't last in spring.  You're always walking through the Superstar lift maze the last few weekends Killington is open.  No one can beat K at the end of the season--you just can't get a better setup than Superstar.  Elevation, slope, exposure, ability to stockpile snow, lift access, it's got it all.  Early season might be a dogfight when each area has its own advantages, but there's no point in competing for the end of the year.


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## skiur (Nov 7, 2018)

Keelhauled said:


> Flats just don't last in spring.  You're always walking through the Superstar lift maze the last few weekends Killington is open.  No one can beat K at the end of the season--you just can't get a better setup than Superstar.  Elevation, slope, exposure, ability to stockpile snow, lift access, it's got it all.  Early season might be a dogfight when each area has its own advantages, but there's no point in competing for the end of the year.



Don't forget about the ubar right at the bottom and the access road to tailgate on.


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## machski (Nov 7, 2018)

Keelhauled said:


> Flats just don't last in spring.  You're always walking through the Superstar lift maze the last few weekends Killington is open.  No one can beat K at the end of the season--you just can't get a better setup than Superstar.  Elevation, slope, exposure, ability to stockpile snow, lift access, it's got it all.  Early season might be a dogfight when each area has its own advantages, but there's no point in competing for the end of the year.


New Superstar was built for late season in mind.  The trail, Snowmaking line, and lift.

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## ss20 (Nov 7, 2018)

machski said:


> New Superstar was built for late season in mind.  The trail, Snowmaking line, and lift.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



And they keep improving it...they finally played with the topography with a couple big trucks last summer where the "S" would always form and it worked to prevent it.


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## sull1102 (Nov 9, 2018)

It's a chilly morning up here today and the storm tonight is looking pretty good for some natural maybe starting around 5 or so and then tomorrow and Sunday let the fun begin with those guns

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## thebigo (Nov 9, 2018)

Mount snow representative - you have any idea how the dining cards that were sold with peak passes in the spring work? Is it loaded on our pass? Do we need to pick up another card? Do we have to pick up the card where we bought our pass?


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## sull1102 (Nov 9, 2018)

thebigo said:


> Mount snow representative - you have any idea how the dining cards that were sold with peak passes in the spring work? Is it loaded on our pass? Do we need to pick up another card? Do we have to pick up the card where we bought our pass?


Check out the passholder forum, Jamie was in there answering questions about those a little while back just before they opened.

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## sull1102 (Nov 9, 2018)

Winter has arrived! Roads are closed up out of Woodford and there's already five inches of fresh snow on the ground in Searsburg so I imagine Mount Snow has that at least!

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## MountSnow (Nov 10, 2018)

They will be a separate card that you can pick up at the Season Pass Office.


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## jaytrem (Nov 10, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> They will be a separate card that you can pick up at the Season Pass Office.



Just a note, as of yesterday they were not available for pick up.  Still waiting for cards to show up, or something like that.


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## Quietman (Nov 13, 2018)

Now I am not on Facebook, and it takes a lot to get me to laugh, but I was bored and was looking at Mt Snow's facebook page and saw this response regarding Mt Snow getting tops in the east rankings from Ski Mag.  Cracked me up!!!  No need to start a flame war about the rankings, but that response was great!  

Steve Stankiewicz: Really? Wonder what place Jay got

Mount Snow: a FOR SALE sign...


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## slatham (Nov 14, 2018)

Mt Snow I think your snow stake thermometer is broken. I doubt its 30 at 8:25am today. Your weather station on WU shows 11.....


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## MountSnow (Nov 14, 2018)

slatham said:


> Mt Snow I think your snow stake thermometer is broken. I doubt its 30 at 8:25am today. Your weather station on WU shows 11.....



Super broken. We're aware of it and working on a replacement.


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## powhunter (Nov 14, 2018)

Quietman said:


> Now I am not on Facebook, and it takes a lot to get me to laugh, but I was bored and was looking at Mt Snow's facebook page and saw this response regarding Mt Snow getting tops in the east rankings from Ski Mag.  Cracked me up!!!  No need to start a flame war about the rankings, but that response was great!
> 
> Steve Stankiewicz: Really? Wonder what place Jay got
> 
> Mount Snow: a FOR SALE sign...



Hell even I got a chuckle out of that!


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## FBGM (Nov 16, 2018)

What kind of terrain this place got open?  Seems like they are now getting run over in terms of trails/acreage and just overall. Reports from Killy look superior. Jay peak looks like they could be 100% open if wanted to be. Stowe Vail even gots good going. They playing with their $50 mil sprinkler system still? Should they have half open by now with that thing?


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2018)

FBGM said:


> What kind of terrain this place got open?  Seems like they are now getting run over in terms of trails/acreage and just overall. Reports from Killy look superior. Jay peak looks like they could be 100% open if wanted to be. Stowe Vail even gots good going. They playing with their $50 mil sprinkler system still? Should they have half open by now with that thing?


Probably close to 30 trails by Friday of Thanksgiving weekend is my call right now. A dense 6" on my back deck from last night's storm. Temps around 29, making for not so favorable wet bulb temps right now. Guns on on Plummet, Snowdance and Inferno in the next few hours. Won't take much to get a bunch of stuff open with the as you put it "50 million dollar sprinkler system" (which if you actually understood that of the $52 million in phase 1 of Mount Snow's EB-5 money that the West Lake project was about $25 million, and the other 25+ million for the new Carinthia lodge) pumps out over 11000 gallons a minute for over a week in a row. 

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## prsboogie (Nov 17, 2018)

Let's make a concerted effort not to quote him please, it's ruining my blocking of him. He's a troll and you all feed him regularly. 

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## powhunter (Nov 17, 2018)

When are ya opening midweek?


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## ss20 (Nov 17, 2018)

powhunter said:


> When are ya opening midweek?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wednesday before Turkey day.


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## Edd (Nov 17, 2018)

I called them. They hope to start midweek operations this Wednesday, which is when I hope to start my season. It’ll be a decision between MS and Wildcat if they decide to open also. 


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## powhunter (Nov 17, 2018)

Rgr


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## sull1102 (Nov 17, 2018)

Good day out here, I'm tempted to say v50/50 split day tickets and season passes, but HOLY SHIT the line for season passes... Out the building and wrapping around to the ticket windows out front, completely absurd. Snow is good down low, up top pretty tough to get an edge in a lot of spots, it's that super dense wet stuff and scraped off by 11. Down low is really really good though. Lift lines are comparable to just before Christmas vacation starts.

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## thebigo (Nov 17, 2018)

Appears that peaks is having a good early season, line for the quad this morning at wildcat was about as long as I can remember. Best guess >50% paper tickets.


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## Glenn (Nov 17, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Good day out here, I'm tempted to say v50/50 split day tickets and season passes, but HOLY SHIT the line for season passes... Out the building and wrapping around to the ticket windows out front, completely absurd. Snow is good down low, up top pretty tough to get an edge in a lot of spots, it's that super dense wet stuff and scraped off by 11. Down low is really really good though. Lift lines are comparable to just before Christmas vacation starts.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Nice report!

Do you have to physically pick season passes up there? It's been awhile since I've had one there. Currently, ours show up in the mail.


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Good day out here, I'm tempted to say v50/50 split day tickets and season passes, but HOLY SHIT the line for season passes... Out the building and wrapping around to the ticket windows out front, completely absurd. Snow is good down low, up top pretty tough to get an edge in a lot of spots, it's that super dense wet stuff and scraped off by 11. Down low is really really good though. Lift lines are comparable to just before Christmas vacation starts.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


Cars about 10 rows into the outer lots when me and the rest of the family drove in about 9:30. Lift lines not at all like I was expecting based on the fullness of the parking lot!! (Maybe everyone was in line to get their season passes [emoji6]) At most a 5 minute wait for the Bluebird (more regularly just 1 or 2 groups infront of my family in the Queue lane) Grand Summit was running which helped getting folks out of the base area and was pretty much ski to the end of the queue lane, get you pass scanned and go into "final approach" to load it. Maybe 15 groups waiting to board Heavy Metal the one time we went down there and the Northface was apparently having some mechanical issues when we wanted to go ski over there, so we passed today.

Snow surface had some isolated scratchy spots on the usual pitches on Cascade, Lodge and Ridge, and some isolated death cookies up high, but was soft and smooth on the lower half. A bunch of folks venturing out into the 6 or so inches of dense, base snow that fell lead to the sights of multi waterbar induced crashes and some "free stone grinds" since while the snow that fell WILL help speed expansion efforts, it's not enough to provide a deep enough base to adequately cover the ground

All in all, no complaints from my crew

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## sull1102 (Nov 17, 2018)

Just got home, biggest take aways from today are I see Grand Summit getting a lot more use this season with the new Northside only corral setup on the Bluebird. Even today where the lines weren't longer than 5 minutes the Summit was being well used, more than I've seen it midseason sometimes. Also there's way too many people out there with no clue how to ski and are a danger and Long John is really dangerous. You can't park at Carinthia so there's only one way to get over there at all and the trail was PACKED. Everywhere else was pretty open and free space but Long John Jesus.

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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 17, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Also there's way too many people out there with no clue how to ski and are a danger and Long John is really dangerous.



Unfortunately, if they don't get out there and ski, then their ability isn't gonna improve.


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## sull1102 (Nov 17, 2018)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Unfortunately, if they don't get out there and ski, then their ability isn't gonna improve.


Oh I totally get that, it just seems like this time of the season is just not the right time at all, the conditions are not really great for trying to learn.

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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2018)

Inexperienced skiers not only struggle with the physical motions of the sport, but also their judgment on conditions.  

If you desire sharing the slopes  with fewer of these kinds of skiers, MT Snow might not be where you want to go. 



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## sull1102 (Nov 17, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> Inexperienced skiers not only struggle with the physical motions of the sport, but also their judgment on conditions.
> 
> If you desire sharing the slopes  with fewer of these kinds of skiers, MT Snow might not be where you want to go.
> 
> ...


Of course, especially on the weekends. I'm also 90% of time out there midweek and never on Long John unless I'm cutting over to Carinthia where I usually park so possibly for me it was just a case of forgetting what the weekends can be like. I was just surprised, especially by the parents who do seem to have skill and should know better with these kids with no helmet, etc etc. Today I saw at least 8 kids walking down the trail, if your kid is walking down Long John you should know the skill level enough to know they shouldn't be up top yet and build that confidence in the bunny slope so when they do go up top they feel like they can do it and have fun.

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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Of course, especially on the weekends. I'm also 90% of time out there midweek and never on Long John unless I'm cutting over to Carinthia where I usually park so possibly for me it was just a case of forgetting what the weekends can be like. I was just surprised, especially by the parents who do seem to have skill and should know better with these kids with no helmet, etc etc. Today I saw at least 8 kids walking down the trail, if your kid is walking down Long John you should know the skill level enough to know they shouldn't be up top yet and build that confidence in the bunny slope so when they do go up top they feel like they can do it and have fun.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app


That scenario (parents over estimating the ability and/or patience of their kids - spouses or boyfriend's/girlfriend's as well) happens WAY more often than many would imagine, especially if one doesn't semi regularly go down the primary beginner summit trail at a major resort.

The parent/more advanced spouse/more advanced boyfriend (rarely a more advanced girlfriend simply because the male ego won't give in to frustration 99.9% of the time [emoji6] ) puts the lesser skilled person in their group into a situation far beyond their ability level, often because the more advanced person wants to ski more terrain.

One can argue for sure at Mount Snow yesterday that this was exacerbated by the Discovery Triple not being open for beginners (I can see it getting hammered with the fan guns currently out my back deck window) and then the basic underlying concept that comes into play at times of the notion that one can teach someone else instead of paying for a lesson. 



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## ss20 (Nov 18, 2018)

Long John...Great Eastern/Northern...Belt Parkway...the four most dangerous trails in the Northeast on any given Saturday.  These trails need no introduction.  The mountains they're at do not need to be named.  They are that infamous.  Few on this forum would ever dare to go down these trails on a weekend, save for access to another, much safer option.  I'm getting chills just writing this.


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## Zand (Nov 18, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Long John...Great Eastern/Northern...Belt Parkway...the four most dangerous trails in the Northeast on any given Saturday.  These trails need no introduction.  The mountains they're at do not need to be named.  They are that infamous.  Few on this forum would ever dare to go down these trails on a weekend, save for access to another, much safer option.  I'm getting chills just writing this.



Anything from the summit at Wachusett during the first week of school groups is right up there too


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## Madroch (Nov 18, 2018)

Not often you get to hit ledge in novie... yesterday was good. Firm but edgeable up top-creamy at the bottom.  Reserved was manky but in a good way to keep you from bottoming out.  Used GSX all day until they closed it than small wait on the the bluebird for last couple- 4-5 groups.


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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2018)

Madroch said:


> Not often you get to hit ledge in novie... yesterday was good. Firm but edgeable up top-creamy at the bottom.  Reserved was manky but in a good way to keep you from bottoming out.  Used GSX all day until they closed it than small wait on the the bluebird for last couple- 4-5 groups.


As an FYI, ropes were legitimately dropped on Ledge and Challenger today. Snowmaking was hammering Plummet, N.E. Time, Snowdance, Little John, Cooper's Junction, Inferno, Nitro and some spot guns in a few other places today.

Looking like it's going to be a Thanksgiving weekend with the most amount of terrain open at Mount Snow than I can recall in the 20+ years it's been my home mountain

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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2018)

Definitely has more of a late December, not late November look at Mount Snow right now!

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## thebigo (Nov 18, 2018)

With no school for the kids and wildcat closed, looks like we will be at snow on wednesday for the first time in maybe twenty years. 

We will figure out where to ski but need help with lunch. Do they have whiskey at the summit or only beer, usually have one bourbon with lunch? How about restaurant food? Kids will eat a burger or hot dog; I will go for chicken wings or seafood. 

Thanks, one thing about skiing with kids is once you commit to lunch, you cant bag out.


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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2018)

thebigo said:


> With no school for the kids and wildcat closed, looks like we will be at snow on wednesday for the first time in maybe twenty years.
> 
> We will figure out where to ski but need help with lunch. Do they have whiskey at the summit or only beer, usually have one bourbon with lunch? How about restaurant food? Kids will eat a burger or hot dog; I will go for chicken wings or seafood.
> 
> Thanks, one thing about skiing with kids is once you commit to lunch, you cant bag out.


Full bar at the Bullwheel at the Summit! Plenty of kid friendly food in the base lodge cafeteria (Market Fresh) or Tony's Pizza in the base lodge - also a good selection of food options in the Country Grand Deli on the ground floor of the Grand Summit hotel

Also don't overlook Cuzzin's in the main base lodge for a family lunch, as there's plenty of family friendly food on the sit down menu there

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## urungus (Nov 18, 2018)

Thanks Madroch and drjeff for the great pics.  Was there as well today and really enjoyed the great conditions and expanded terrain.  I thought I had hit every open trail, but somehow I missed that Challenger was open?  Would have like to have tried that.  Even though the parking lots were overflowing, Ridge, Ledge, River Run and even Free Fall were virtually empty.  Quite a contrast from last week, when there was a 10-15 minute corral at the base Free Fall.  Hopefully the pressure on Long John will be reduced once the new Carinthia Lodge and its parking lot open.  From the outside, it looks like the new Lodge still has a lot of work remaining to open this holiday weekend.  Saw someone do an inverted aerial off one of the big jumps on The Gulch, is that allowed?  I’m always amazed by the abilities of the riders.  For lunch the food options at the summit are pretty limited, I would offer a second on Cuzzins, which has better food than the cafeteria in the Market Fresh, and has a great view of the action outside.


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## urungus (Nov 18, 2018)

Also suggestion for Mount Snow, given that you are now an aggressive early season player, it would be cool if you offered an early season pass that is good from opening until mid December.  Sort of like what Killington does in the Spring.


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## FBGM (Nov 19, 2018)

Lol at that lodge not being ready. Winter just sneaks up on ya.


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## sull1102 (Nov 19, 2018)

urungus said:


> Thanks Madroch and drjeff for the great pics.  Was there as well today and really enjoyed the great conditions and expanded terrain.  I thought I had hit every open trail, but somehow I missed that Challenger was open?  Would have like to have tried that.  Even though the parking lots were overflowing, Ridge, Ledge, River Run and even Free Fall were virtually empty.  Quite a contrast from last week, when there was a 10-15 minute corral at the base Free Fall.  Hopefully the pressure on Long John will be reduced once the new Carinthia Lodge and its parking lot open.  From the outside, it looks like the new Lodge still has a lot of work remaining to open this holiday weekend.  Saw someone do an inverted aerial off one of the big jumps on The Gulch, is that allowed?  I’m always amazed by the abilities of the riders.  For lunch the food options at the summit are pretty limited, I would offer a second on Cuzzins, which has better food than the cafeteria in the Market Fresh, and has a great view of the action outside.


Lol at "is that allowed", if you can do it then yeah it's allowed, if you can't then it's highly recommended you not and maybe ride within your limits as the park entry signs say. Just follow the rules of the park and you'll be okay. Cutting across the bottom of kicker landing zones and rails and boxes as I saw many times this weekend is not allowed however. 

Totally agree with you about the lodge looking far from ready to occupy. I think even opening Little John will help the Long John situation a great deal up top. One idea I've had is putting up some fencing and splitting the trail in 80/20 with the 80% being for beginners and the other 20 being like an HOV lane to Carinthia until the parking situation changes.

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## urungus (Nov 19, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Lol at "is that allowed", if you can do it then yeah it's allowed, if you can't then it's highly recommended you not and maybe ride within your limits as the park entry signs say.



Cool ... I’ve seen signs at several ski areas stating that inverted aerials are prohibited so I wasn’t sure if the guy was risking his lift ticket as well as his neck.


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## sull1102 (Nov 21, 2018)

I'll edit in a report later, but WOW WOW WOW TODAY IS INCREDIBLE UP HERE!!!! It's been dumping since 12:30 trees are pretty viable now they've picked at least 3-4 today so far

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## sull1102 (Nov 23, 2018)

https://youtu.be/eHJoUhKNT9Y put together a little edit from 11/21. What a great day for any time of the season, but November is just crazy

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## Edd (Nov 23, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> https://youtu.be/eHJoUhKNT9Y put together a little edit from 11/21. What a great day for any time of the season, but November is just crazy
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Nice vid, thanks. I was too lazy to put anything together. Did you just upload this straight from a device? Doesn’t appear to be a YouTube vid.


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## urungus (Nov 23, 2018)

What color line is the best route to Challenger?


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## sull1102 (Nov 23, 2018)

Edd said:


> Nice vid, thanks. I was too lazy to put anything together. Did you just upload this straight from a device? Doesn’t appear to be a YouTube vid.


Hey thanks man! I moved files from GoPro to Mac then did a little iMovie goodness and uploaded to YouTube.

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## ss20 (Nov 23, 2018)

urungus said:


> What color line is the best route to Challenger?
> View attachment 24180



Uhhh...yellow...but I'm wondering why this is a thing? :lol:


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## MommaBear (Nov 23, 2018)

Anyone know if there is parking at Carinthia this weekend?  (11/24/18 )


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## MountSnow (Nov 24, 2018)

MommaBear said:


> Anyone know if there is parking at Carinthia this weekend?  (11/24/18 )



Yes, but it is limited as we still have construction going on over there on weekdays.


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## sull1102 (Nov 24, 2018)

So I was going to post this over on a trip report from today that talked about how insane crowd levels were and the rumors of a 40-45 minute lift line for the bird today... is there anything Sneaux can do even with make believe money? You've got a 6 pack and a detach quad running full speed to the summit, another detach(Canyon) that serves it's own area and can get you out of the base area and over to North Face. I know the plan is Sunbrook detach quad soon, but the issue starts at the base. One pie in the sky idea, replace Tumbleweed/Sundance with yet another detach that would serve a fair bit of terrain.

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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> So I was going to post this over on a trip report from today that talked about how insane crowd levels were and the rumors of a 40-45 minute lift line for the bird today... is there anything Sneaux can do even with make believe money? You've got a 6 pack and a detach quad running full speed to the summit, another detach(Canyon) that serves it's own area and can get you out of the base area and over to North Face. I know the plan is Sunbrook detach quad soon, but the issue starts at the base. One pie in the sky idea, replace Tumbleweed/Sundance with yet another detach that would serve a fair bit of terrain.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



Mount Snow is like fly paper for NY'ers and those from CT. I am glad it is there to suck up the masses before they get too far North.


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## ss20 (Nov 25, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> So I was going to post this over on a trip report from today that talked about how insane crowd levels were and the rumors of a 40-45 minute lift line for the bird today... is there anything Sneaux can do even with make believe money? You've got a 6 pack and a detach quad running full speed to the summit, another detach(Canyon) that serves it's own area and can get you out of the base area and over to North Face. I know the plan is Sunbrook detach quad soon, but the issue starts at the base. One pie in the sky idea, replace Tumbleweed/Sundance with yet another detach that would serve a fair bit of terrain.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app



It's because it's only Nitro, Bluebird, Grand Summit, and Challenger lifts.  They _should_ have Canyon running but I doubt they have the staff.  

I believe that Sundance is slated to become a detachable lift, and the lodge over there will be replaced with a new one substantially further down the hill.  But both of those are many many years away as I believe the Main Base is going to be where construction focuses next once Carinthia is wrapped up.  

IMO, just having Sunbrook as a detachable will significantly fix traffic flow at the mountain.  The lines at the base could be 20+ minutes long on a weekend and Sunbrook will have empty chairs going up.  Severe underutilization of that terrain.  Sunbrook WILL happen sooner than later...my personal ideas would be to move the current Sunbrook quad to Heavy Metal to replace that and give more capacity to Carinthia.  Followed by upgrading a North Face lift to a high-speed quad, then replacing Canyon with a 6pack as that lift will be nearing the end of its life and has many hours on it as being the primary mountain biking lift in the summer.  

Back in reality, long-term I believe the plan is to put in a lift from the base area up 1/4 the way of Roller Coaster and make the lower part of that novice terrain.  That would help some traffic but not much out of the base area.  

I have looked at the mast plan online for the hill many times but take my post with a grain of salt until Dr. Jeff proofreads it :lol:


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## jg17 (Nov 25, 2018)

Canyon and I believe also Heavy Metal open up at about 11am yesterday as the lines for Bluebird and the GSX got crazy. Once the crowd balanced out, lines were manageable for the rest of the day.


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 25, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Mount Snow is like fly paper for NY'ers and those from CT. I am glad it is there to suck up the masses before they get too far North.



for real. its unbelievable the loyalty some people have for a short drive. its a pancake full of park rats.


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## skimagic (Nov 25, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> for real. its unbelievable the loyalty some people have for a short drive. is.



My 45 year loyalty is being tested, Mt Snow.  It's not possible to buy the small denomination gift cards offered on  the website, only the links to the larger denominations work.


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2018)

A mountain that can (and does regularly) have 10000 or so folks on the hill a day, that has all 3 of it's base facilities within less than a mile of each other, and most lifts on the Main Face and Carinthia terminating at a base area and no real, current upper mountain pod on the main face or at Carinthia is going to have crowding issues, especially when you add in what anecdotally to my eyes are more people with passes as well as roughly the same volume of day tickets.

Sunbrook needs the Snowmaking expansion, and upgraded to a high-speed lift, and some type of yurt/mini day lodge back there with restrooms and some food and beverage service to get people to go back there and then stay there lapping it.

Sundance IMHO should be a high priority to upgrade that lift to a high-speed and then truly create a main face pod where people DON'T have to go back to a base area to get on a lift.

Carinthia, I'm going to hold my judgement about lift wise what could/should be done until I see first hand how the new lodge will or possibly won't effect crowd dispersion and use as an access point at the beginning of the day. Some lift capacity upgrading is likely needed. Whether that involves making Nitro a six pack or just the conversion of Heavy Metal to a quad, not sure yet. I think the question of if families with young kids will want to make Carinthia and the park crowd stigma a starting/end point, and if some of the current main base area volume will shift over there remains to be seen

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## WWF-VT (Nov 25, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> for real. its unbelievable the loyalty some people have for a short drive. its a pancake full of park rats.



I have never been to Mount Snow.  Does it ski as flat as it looks ?


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## danimals (Nov 25, 2018)

WWF-VT said:


> I have never been to Mount Snow.  Does it ski as flat as it looks ?


I don't think so. Main face is flat for sure but its really not as boring as people make it out to be. Uncles is one of my favorite trails anywhere. I wish They could expand on north face, more steep trails are definitely needed, but I think they do a great job with what they got.


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2018)

WWF-VT said:


> I have never been to Mount Snow.  Does it ski as flat as it looks ?



The front is very flat and most of sunbrook exept bear trap is flat. The north side is steeper but not steep but can be fun for a day.


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## Edd (Nov 25, 2018)

I like Roller Coaster! (seriously, I do) 


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## tnt1234 (Nov 25, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> The front is very flat and most of sunbrook exept bear trap is flat. The north side is steeper but not steep but can be fun for a day.



Years ago - decades ago  - when I was in my 20s, my cousin and I drove up to Vt.  No plans, no reservations.  Just two days off from work and our skis in the car.  According to our paper map, Snow was the first big mountain we could get to, so we went there.  Drove right tot he base - ind you this was after working till 5, and leaving from NJ, so I suppose it was about 10-11 PM by the time we got there.  Drove to the base hotel and they laughed at us - this was a Saturday night.  They said 'you're not gonna find a room tonight for twenty miles around...'

Sure enough, after checking every hotel we saw, at exactly 21 miles from teh base, we woke up the owners of a little motel and found a room....

Anyway, long story to say.....snowed like crazy balls all that night and next day we had 10-12 inches....never having been to Snow, and you know, not have the interwebs, we poked around the main face for a bit and were like 'huh....all that snow, and it's just groomed in....'  Then we found the north face, and man, what a day!  Two days really.  I think it snowed again that night.  

Not steep, but those trails, with snow...pretty fun stuff.  But that's true for any mountain really.

We changed hotels sunday night - I forget why exactly...I think we met someone on the mountain who said they had a room closer.  And there was a bar, and a hot tub, or something....fun times...

Anyway - long story just to say, people complain about Snow being flat, but those two days were really great all those years ago....

Only skied Snow one day since.  Total groomer day, but midweek with one of my daughters.  Had fun, but conditions were sketch.


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## slatham (Nov 25, 2018)

If the North Face is full on open then Mt Snow has some fun and interesting expert terrain, and a true challenge in both Jaws and Rip Cord. It's the front side that gives it the flat/boring reputation, but even the front side has some fun trails here and there, like Uncles. It just amazes me the lemmings flocking to the Blue Bird, to wait in line while Grand Summit is ski on, to lap the front side and never go to the North face. But then again if all skiers thought as logically as I do they'd all be at Magic


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## machski (Nov 25, 2018)

I don't think you can judge a resort by lift lines this weekend.  All are still on limited terrain/lifts, but from what I saw, drew an almost midwinter weekend crowd on Saturday thanks to Snovember.  SR was beyond nuts lift lines and that was with 6 lifts and 5 Pods in play.  No doubt Snow had the same issues.  But in all seriousness, not sure you want a ton more capacity on same terrain acreage.  Just makes for more crowded trails vs lines at lifts.

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## Quietman (Nov 25, 2018)

On closing day this spring, I wandered into the glades off of Olympic for the 1st time.  3rd week in April, full coverage of soft corn, and I never skied the same line run after run, and even though it's wasn't super steep or extremely challenging, I couldn't stop smiling!! Also enjoyed the glades off on Nitro, even though the coverage was not as deep.  

Mt Snow is what it is, and can be a lot of fun.  And they are not shy about using their new snow making power!


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2018)

machski said:


> I don't think you can judge a resort by lift lines this weekend.  All are still on limited terrain/lifts, but from what I saw, drew an almost midwinter weekend crowd on Saturday thanks to Snovember.  SR was beyond nuts lift lines and that was with 6 lifts and 5 Pods in play.  No doubt Snow had the same issues.  But in all seriousness, not sure you want a ton more capacity on same terrain acreage.  Just makes for more crowded trails vs lines at lifts.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



With the long lifts the trails already have too many people on them with the lifts they have now. More uphill capacity to ski on the same trails won't make the experience any better.


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## sull1102 (Nov 25, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> With the long lifts the trails already have too many people on them with the lifts they have now. More uphill capacity to ski on the same trails won't make the experience any better.


It will just from the point of view of elimination of 25-45 minute lift lines though. This weekend is a true test though because Sunbrook is not open. As DrJeff said, once that pod gets a detach lift and a dining/warm up setup(I've heard yurt tossed around but at this rate of growth I think you really need to start thinking bigger like Schwendi Hutte at WV) it will bring some people off the main face, when that pod is open. The main highways can't take much more, Long/Little John/Deer Run, Ridge, Cascade to Canyon, all are maxed out but the other options in between frequently have fewer skiers on them even on weekends. I really think something that might help would be Tumbleweed/Sundance being replaced with a high speed quad following the exact same line. That would get people out of the main base area and down to Sundance, and I'm talking like this summer do this don't even need to wait for the whole redesign of everything in the area. From the top of Sundance you could get folks going to Carinthia and Ridge off most of Long John, also you get access to most of the Main Face trails that really aren't as heavily used as well. 

I also strongly think that someone needs to begin looking into Nitro being swapped out for a six-pack with the long lines that are sure to come. Heavy Metal going to a quad is great and all, but it's just going to feed the bottom of Long John even more as people look to the shorter lift line to get back to the main mtn. 

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## ss20 (Nov 25, 2018)

This is a great conversation as to why I love/hate Mount Snow... it has the best intermediate terrain anywhere, IMO.  Tough claim, I know.  But it has the best variety of groomers, wide slopes, and narrow natural snow intermediates.  The vertical drop of 1,600 feet is not super impressive, but the _length_ of the main face trails is astounding.  I love trails like Uncle's, Hop, Shootout, One More Time, Drifter, and many other bumped up trails on the main face.  If everything is open they'll groom 60-70% of the mountain (more weekends/holidays), on-par with Killington and Sugarbush.  Outside of Ripcord and Jaws there is not much steep stuff, but the variety of the mountain makes up for it.  I truly spend more time on blues at Mount Snow than I'll spend on the blues at any other hill, simply because there is so much to offer.

Unfortunately I fear a march to 100% snowmaking at Mount Snow, making all the trails homogenized and turning Mount Snow into Okemo or Stratton South.  And of course the crowds have scared me away weekends December-early March.


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## cdskier (Nov 25, 2018)

ss20 said:


> If everything is open they'll groom 60-70% of the mountain (more weekends/holidays), on-par with Killington and Sugarbush.



Sugarbush rarely grooms that high of a % of open terrain. If they're 100% open, SB will typically groom about 35-40% midweek and 45-50% of terrain on weekends.


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## drjeff (Nov 27, 2018)

Just a heads up, before folks probably start in with the complaints about why isn't more open, or why aren't they running more lifts today, etc.


Multiple friends of mine, who live in the same condo complex my wife and I own in across Route 100 from the mountain have been posting pictures of roughly 15" totals on their back decks. They are also making comments about how it's the consistency and weight of elmer's paste, that the power keep flicking on and off, and that it sounds like gun fire outside on a regular basis with all of the tree limbs snapping under the weight of the snow.

This isn't a storm of blower quality snow. It's great base snow for sure,  but it's causing a whole host of tree and power problems as well as some road closure issues effecting staff from getting to the mountain due to numerous downed trees and wires across some roads


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## MountSnow (Nov 27, 2018)

Thanks for the update Jeff. 
Power is back on and lifts should start running shortly. 19" and counting at the summit!


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## sull1102 (Nov 27, 2018)

Just a heads up to all the roads are a disaster and RT9 is a Trainwreck be careful out there snow tires and AWD/4WD a must.

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## MommaBear (Nov 28, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Just a heads up to all the roads are a disaster and RT9 is a Trainwreck be careful out there snow tires and AWD/4WD a must.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using AlpineZone mobile app




Grateful for a condo just 3 miles south of the mountain - and the ability to get up there the evening before the storm to avoid those disasters!  (not that "I" managed to get up there, but my boys did)


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## urungus (Dec 8, 2018)

What is the trail “N.E. Time” named after?  North East?  New England?


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## drjeff (Dec 8, 2018)

urungus said:


> What is the trail “N.E. Time” named after?  North East?  New England?


It's supposed to be a play on words to read more as ANYTIME, which is to work off of it's location above the "One More Time" trail and the addition of Snowmaking to that part of the trail to provide lower level skiers access to Snowdance without having to go down the upper pitch on Snowdance, so the trail, N.E. Time is available anytime for lower level skiers and riders to start getting higher up the mountain

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## urungus (Dec 9, 2018)

drjeff said:


> It's supposed to be a play on words to read more as ANYTIME, which is to work off of it's location above the "One More Time" trail and the addition of Snowmaking to that part of the trail to provide lower level skiers access to Snowdance without having to go down the upper pitch on Snowdance, so the trail, N.E. Time is available anytime for lower level skiers and riders to start getting higher up the mountain



Thanks drjeff.  It seems so obvious now...


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## drjeff (Dec 14, 2018)

Just a "few" folks up enjoying the $12 tickets for Founders Day today!!

I will admit that I am enjoying this view much more from my office desk than as part of the crowd right now! 

Going to be a STEADY line of Southbound traffic this afternoon as I'm heading Northbound to my condo this afternoon!! 

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## MountSnow (Dec 14, 2018)

$12 tickets sure bring folks out of the woodwork!


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## skifree (Dec 14, 2018)

I just looked at cam..... omg!!!

looks like the mall on Christmas eve


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## sull1102 (Dec 14, 2018)

That's terrible, honestly I know it's $12 but what kind of experience are these guests actually getting? Won't they go home to their friends and family and talk about how crazy crowded the place was? 

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## cdskier (Dec 14, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> That's terrible, honestly I know it's $12 but what kind of experience are these guests actually getting? Won't they go home to their friends and family and talk about how crazy crowded the place was?



Yea, I don't see the appeal of skiing for $12 if you have to deal with crowds like that.


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## drjeff (Dec 14, 2018)

It was CRAZY on my ride up tonight!! At about 5 o'clock the traffic Southbound on 100 at the light in Wilmington was backed up about a mile! And when my wife, who drove up separately with our son tonight, turned off of rte 2 onto Colrain Rd about 6 o'clock said the traffic waiting to turn left onto 2 was backed up past the orchard almost a mile!!

Huge day of ticket sales for Mount Snow! And based on how picked over 7-11 and Snow's Mtn market were a bit after 5, the local businesses benefitted as well too!!

Not sure how days like Founders Day and the $17 tickets for the St Patrick's Day (or some midweek day near St Patrick's day if the 17th is on a weekend) translates into potential new pass sales, but as a way to get a big revenue boost on a midweek day over what it likely would of been, the pre sold, cheap tickets plan works

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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2018)

Aren't these days always crazy busy if the snow is good?  

Mt Snow is crazy busy at $100 a day on weekends.  Given it's location, of course it's going to be packed for $12 when the snow and weather is good; even midweek. The only people getting turned off are those don't have the expectation the place is going to be busy AF going in. 

Lot of skiers out there are pretty tolerant to long lines and crowded trails.  

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## Glenn (Dec 15, 2018)

That's nuts. That's also why my wife and I don't ski on holiday weekends.


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## skiur (Dec 15, 2018)

Wow, with crowds like that I don't care how cheap a ticket is, you couldn't pay me to ski in that mess.


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2018)

As soon as you get out of the main base there the lines become virtually non-existant.


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## benski (Dec 15, 2018)

Newpylong said:


> As soon as you get out of the main base there the lines become virtually non-existant.



And its typical for the Bluebird to have a missive line compared to the parallel Grand Summit


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## sull1102 (Dec 15, 2018)

benski said:


> And its typical for the Bluebird to have a missive line compared to the parallel Grand Summit


Yeah but looking at the webcam in live time yesterday the GS had a brutal line as well. Wonder how Canyon looked because at least from there you could escape over to North Face.

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## drjeff (Dec 15, 2018)

I can now say that I've seen first hand Thanks Walt and Roller coaster and Beartrap covered with 15 to 20 foot deep whales along their entire lengths!! 

Impressive amount of snow on the hill! 

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## sugarbushskier (Dec 15, 2018)

Actually went yesterday as I bought the $12 tix very early on and figured if the snow wasn't worth it, I'd just bag the day w little loss.  But the snow was good and although the crowds were nuts, North Face wasn't terrible and we skied early and through lunch so tried to maximize our time on the hill.

One thing they did that i've never seen before was they had employees w the lift tickets greeting you as you enter the base area and for those that pre-bought and had a paper receipt, they just gave you the ticket which allowed you to avoid the ticket window completely.  Simple brilliant move as i've waited at that ticket window before and it alone can take 20 + minutes.  

Wasn't a bad day if you could avoid the crowded areas. A bit scary on the main trails, but still had a good day out.

PLUS, it's still December 14th!!


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## Edd (Dec 15, 2018)

skiur said:


> Wow, with crowds like that I don't care how cheap a ticket is, you couldn't pay me to ski in that mess.



Right, like if they offered me $12 to ski in that mess I’d be like, “I’m going to need more money to ski with all of these ding dongs.” Literally what’s in it for me?


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 19, 2018)

Question: Has the old trail to the skiers right of south-bowl that I presume was some "natural give back area" for other mountain projects been fully "restored" thus allowing the ropes to be dropped? 

Cant say i've ever seen that area rope-free before.


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## MountSnow (Dec 19, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> Question: Has the old trail to the skiers right of south-bowl that I presume was some "natural give back area" for other mountain projects been fully "restored" thus allowing the ropes to be dropped?
> 
> Cant say i've ever seen that area rope-free before.



The rope was there to give the trees a fighting chance to entablish themselves. Now that they have a few years of growth it is treated just like any of the rest of the Forest Service land we operate on. Note: We do not maintain that area.


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## jm99 (Dec 19, 2018)

MountSnow said:


> The rope was there to give the trees a fighting chance to entablish themselves. Now that they have a few years of growth it is treated just like any of the rest of the Forest Service land we operate on. Note: We do not maintain that area.



I was wondering what the deal is with that area, I dipped in there for the first time last week because I saw no rope and it was a nice little spot... kinda felt like skiing through a christmas tree farm.


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## Newpylong (Dec 19, 2018)

That acreage along with Upper Overbrook was traded/given back to nature in the 90s when they widened Standard/Canyon when the quad went in.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 22, 2018)

As I look out my window at 12pm,  Mt snow has turned on what looks like top to bottom snowmaking. Looks like it got colder earlier than expected! Great job!


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## Ol Dirty Noodle (Dec 22, 2018)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> As I look out my window at 12pm,  Mt snow has turned on what looks like top to bottom snowmaking. Looks like it got colder earlier than expected! Great job!



I’ll be there in the morning, I’ll try and report back early


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## drjeff (Dec 23, 2018)

Much better this morning!! Snowmaking trails under the almost 300 guns running are smooth and creamy. The terrain that hasn't had a resurface yet is machine groomed loose granular with some firm spots, but WAY better than yesterday

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## Pez (Jan 14, 2019)

How’s the season been so far at Snow?   Haven’t been able to ski yet but that should change in a couple weeks.  

Hey Mount Snow just saw the rate hike for the Sunday afternoon ticket. Kinda bummed.  Still a good deal but would have been better 10 bucks cheaper like the last couple years! 


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## skiur (Jan 15, 2019)

All those snowmaking enhancements weren't free.


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## FBGM (Jan 15, 2019)

skiur said:


> All those snowmaking enhancements weren't free.



You’re right. Someone has to pay back those EB-5 funny money investors.


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## drjeff (Jan 20, 2019)

While the snow today was great, there was some sad news in the Mount Snow region today. Around midnight last night, a fire broke out at one of the Valley's most well known restaurants, Dot's of Dover, and as you can see from my pictures, it's a total loss. Betsy, the owner, was one of the true figureheads that helped the community come back after the devasting floods of Tropical Storm Irene in late August of 2011. I'm sure the community will band together and help her through this devasting time!!

It's actually the 2nd major fire in the Valley this weekend, as a townhome in the Greenspring development, across route 100 from the mountain, was totalled by a fire. Fortunately everyone in the 3 families who were staying in it got out safelyView attachment 24490

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## doublediamond (Jan 20, 2019)

Always wanted to stop in. Never got a chance. :-(


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## prsboogie (Jan 20, 2019)

That's a shame. Hope everyone is ok.

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## Glenn (Jan 21, 2019)

That's tough to see. Right in the middle of their busy season as well. I hope they can rebuild.


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## MountSnow (Mar 6, 2019)

Passes now on sale for the 2019/2020 season at www.peakpass.com

Quick takeaways: 

–Prices are the same as last year's, through the first deadline of April 30th

–The Payment Plan is back. 
––$99 down now, then just four easy payments on the 15th of every month, starting on May 15, 2019.

–Discount Dining Cards are back

–Pass Protection is back 

–Ski free all Spring 2019


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## skiur (Mar 6, 2019)

You guys need to raise your prices, I could not deal with the crowds at Mt Snow on the weekends.


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## MountSnow (Mar 6, 2019)

skiur said:


> You guys need to raise your prices, I could not deal with the crowds at Mt Snow on the weekends.



Interesting feedback. Thanks.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 6, 2019)

MountSnow said:


> Interesting feedback. Thanks.



I disagree. Keep the prices the same and expand into sunbrook and beyond!


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## Jcb890 (Mar 6, 2019)

skiur said:


> You guys need to raise your prices, I could not deal with the crowds at Mt Snow on the weekends.


Not trying to stick up for Mt. Snow or anything on this point because I also hate the crowds... but, where exactly isn't crowded on weekends? All of the big/popular mountains in Southern/middle of VT and NH are - Stratton, Okemo, Killington, Loon - and they're all on more expensive passes.

When I go (weekends usually), I see an awful lot of day tickets most times. I wonder what the ratio is with season passes vs. day tickets.



GregoryIsaacs said:


> I disagree. Keep the prices the same and expand into sunbrook and beyond!


That would be great. Also, bring over Hermitage Club's HS6 because the Sunbrook Quad is brutal! Fun terrain over there though, too bad not much vert.


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## skiur (Mar 6, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Not trying to stick up for Mt. Snow or anything on this point because I also hate the crowds... but, where exactly isn't crowded on weekends? All of the big/popular mountains in Southern/middle of VT and NH are - Stratton, Okemo, Killington, Loon - and they're all on more expensive passes.
> 
> When I go (weekends usually), I see an awful lot of day tickets most times. I wonder what the ratio is with season passes vs. day tickets.
> 
> ...



I ski Killington almost every weekend and it isn't crowded like snow gets, I got to snow a few days this year for the first time since the ASC days and snow is more crowded then it was then while K is less crowded.  K handles a crowd much better, I don't hate mt snow as it can be fun but I would only go back on a weekday.  If they were able to expand that would certainly help.


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## pauldotcom (Mar 6, 2019)

Leave pass prices the same for adults; just stop giving such huge discounts to 20-29 year olds. They ski cheaper than my 14 year old!


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## cdskier (Mar 6, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> Leave pass prices the same for adults; just stop giving such huge discounts to 20-29 year olds. They ski cheaper than my 14 year old!



Explorer Youth and Drifter prices are both $399. Am I missing something?

The huge discounts to the 20-29 age range are actually quite a brilliant way to ensure that age range continues to ski and doesn't drop out of the sport. I think it is critical to long term viability of the sport. To be perfectly blunt, if Sugarbush had not started offering a cheap pass option in 2011 for that age range, I would probably not be a season passholder and condo owner there today.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 6, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Explorer Youth and Drifter prices are both $399. Am I missing something?
> 
> The huge discounts to the 20-29 age range are actually quite a brilliant way to ensure that age range continues to ski and doesn't drop out of the sport. I think it is critical to long term viability of the sport. To be perfectly blunt, if Sugarbush had not started offering a cheap pass option in 2011 for that age range, I would probably not be a season passholder and condo owner there today.


100%

I have so many college ski buddies who  dropped out of the sport within a couple of years of graduating college.  If there was a cheap option in their 20s when they had student loan payments to make while making early career salaries, they might still be skiers and riders.  

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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2019)

pauldotcom said:


> Leave pass prices the same for adults; just stop giving such huge discounts to 20-29 year olds. They ski cheaper than my 14 year old!


That changed a few years ago (Thankfully!!) 

The college, post college, 20 something crowd getting their unrestricted passes cheaper than the age 7-17 group was a big oversight!! Especially for the couple of years when the 18- twenty something also got unlimited Stratton Access pre Ikon days!!! 

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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2019)

MountSnow said:


> Interesting feedback. Thanks.


I said this exact same thing to your boss, who's last name rhymes with "wisher" (as in he wishers the Mets and Jets were actually good some day  ) over a beer in the Taproom about a month ago! I even offered to bring him over to the "short corner" of the bar and have about a dozen other Mount Snow regulars say the same thing......

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## deadheadskier (Mar 6, 2019)

The problem with the Peak Pass portfolio is they are trying to act like an inexpensive eastern focused alternative to Epic, Ikon, Boyne etc.  The reality is they have a lot of feeder type hills that it makes zero sense to get that customer base to cash up to the MT Snow level while simultaneously cheapening access to their premier resort. They also have geography working against promoting this mix.


I'd probably price it something like this for adults.

The Platinum: $900 - all area access 7 days a week.

The Gold: $700 all area access 7 days a week with holiday blackouts at MT Snow.

The Silver: $600 all area access with Holiday Blackouts at Snow, Hunter, Attitash and Wildcat. 

The Bronze: $400 All area access with midweek only access at Snow, Hunter, Attitash and Cat.  

Pass benefit for all is 50% off walk up rate during blackouts.

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## Quietman (Mar 6, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> The problem with the Peak Pass portfolio is they are trying to act like an inexpensive eastern focused alternative to Epic, Ikon, Boyne etc.  The reality is they have a lot of feeder type hills that it makes zero sense to get that customer base to cash up to the MT Snow level while simultaneously cheapening access to their premier resort. They also have geography working against promoting this mix.
> 
> 
> I'd probably price it something like this for adults.
> ...



Where is the love for the Crotch in this setup?


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## prsboogie (Mar 6, 2019)

drjeff said:


> I said this exact same thing to your boss, who's last name rhymes with "wisher" (as in he wishers the Mets and Jets were actually good some day  ) over a beer in the Taproom about a month ago! I even offered to bring him over to the "short corner" of the bar and have about a dozen other Mount Snow regulars say the same thing......
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


As a 45 year old who doesn't have unlimited disposable income, I really appreciate the ability to access passes for my family of four. My 10/12 year olds love to ski at Snow and before the Peaks pass we were unable to ski more than a day or two. Yes the crowds suck on a Saturday but they do most places in Vermont.

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## prsboogie (Mar 6, 2019)

Quietman said:


> Where is the love for the Crotch in this setup?


I believe the smaller areas are unlimited if I'm delving correctly into DHS mind set

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## thebigo (Mar 6, 2019)

prsboogie said:


> I believe the smaller areas are unlimited if I'm delving correctly into DHS mind set
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



Problem is crotch upper mountain becomes unskiable holiday and weekend afternoons - moonwalk is an absolute debacle, serious safety hazard. After thinking it over for a day, not as bullshit over the price hike targeted at crotched families, it at least speaks to the viability of the place. Something needs to be done about the skier density at both crotched and wildcat, i would blackout the drifter on the ranger schedule and stop selling the ridiculous sunday afternoon tickets.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2019)

Yes, I was suggesting CM be in the Bronze $400 tier.  

I don't think think either CM or Cat gets skied off any worse than most New England mountains by afternoon.  Almost  every ski area has boilerplate surfaces in high traffic areas after say 1PM.  

I definitely will give you that Moonwalk gets treacherous.  I've thought about that and this is likely an unpopular opinion with some, but they could benefit by adding a beginner trail beyond Jupiter's that circles around and returns to the top of the Valley chair.  Yes, I know that means loss of some side country trees, but it's a worthwhile trade off given so many lower level skiers get into trouble on Moonwalk. 

As for Cat, I'm fine with the cheap Sunday afternoon ticket, but maybe restrict it to NH residents only.  It's a good offering for lower income locals to still be able to get some weekend turns in at an affordable price.  The weekend and holiday afternoon snow surfaces will always be a challenge there. Been that way long before Peak bought them.  Recommendations I've suggested over the years is cutting on map glades between Polecat and Lynx as well as Upper Wildcat and Upper Catapult.  I also think they should restore snowmaking on Upper Lift Lion and make that a groomer.  Also would be unpopular with some, but having a fourth groomed option off the top would take pressure off the other 3.  It also gets so wind blasted it's rarely a great natural snow trail, certainly never as good as Top Cat and Upper Wildcat.

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## Newpylong (Mar 7, 2019)

Too many natural features to make Lift Lion a groomer ie an unrealistic amount of snow would need to be made. But the snowmaking is functional.

Restoring snowmaking on Upper Wildcat might be a better option as it's more mellow.


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## skiur (Mar 7, 2019)

prsboogie said:


> As a 45 year old who doesn't have unlimited disposable income, I really appreciate the ability to access passes for my family of four. My 10/12 year olds love to ski at Snow and before the Peaks pass we were unable to ski more than a day or two. Yes the crowds suck on a Saturday but they do most places in Vermont.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



I have been to most of the mountains in VT on a saturday and snow has the worse crowds.  With the cheap pass prices and it being the first decent mountain coming up from NYC/CT it always will be.  The only way to change that is to raise prices or expand.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> Too many natural features to make Lift Lion a groomer ie an unrealistic amount of snow would need to be made. But the snowmaking is functional.
> 
> Restoring snowmaking on Upper Wildcat might be a better option as it's more mellow.


I respectfully disagree.  They'd have to remove the old gondola footings, but from the ladies T down would not be bad. Even getting a groomer track wide entrance from the top on skiers left wouldn't be a massive endeavor.  There are tons of snowmaking trails in New England that require far more snow to open than Lift Lion.

And Upper Wildcat skis beautifully as a natural snow trail. You would anger far more clientele blowing snow on it than you would Lift Lion.  It's also about five times the acreage and would require much more snow to open overall. 

I know you work in the business and have great knowledge of operations, but my views come from being a Cat regular who has about 100 days there in the past five years.   These are the snow conditions observations and conversations I'm having with Cat regulars every day on the lifts and in the lodge.  The top trails I hear wishes for snowmaking on are Lift Lion and Schuss so it lasts further in the spring. Hardly ever hear calls for snowmaking on Upper Wildcat. 

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## Newpylong (Mar 7, 2019)

I can respect all opinions, obviously - I haven't even been to Wildcat in the past 5 years, and before that, twice a year maybe? And that's formerly in the business too  

I just don't see them grooming LL, even with snowmaking. It could be like Organgrinder, but would need some work. But considering they don't currently really make snow on any black terrain albeit the random Black Cat/Starr Line if  allows, if I was a Wildcat regular I would be screaming to get a base on something and have them leave her alone for bumps. LL would be killer...


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## deadheadskier (Mar 7, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> I can respect all opinions, obviously - I haven't even been to Wildcat in the past 5 years, and before that, twice a year maybe? And that's formerly in the business too
> 
> I just don't see them grooming LL, even with snowmaking. It could be like Organgrinder, but would need some work. But considering they don't currently really make snow on any black terrain albeit the random Black Cat/Starr Line if  allows, if I was a Wildcat regular I would be screaming to get a base on something and have them leave her alone for bumps. LL would be killer...


The challenge with LL as a bump run is for whatever reason it gets totally wind blasted. You can have perfect packed powder bumps on Topcat next door, but LL is a wind scoured mess.  

I do agree on having a bump run with snowmaking base. That's what I'd hope for with Schuss. It would be awesome in spring as it gets sun in the morning. But as an all natural snow trail, that sun melts it out and it's often closed before spring break season gets going. 

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## FBGM (Mar 7, 2019)

Woah forgot about this thread. I thought the place just closed or something.


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Woah forgot about this thread. I thought the place just closed or something.


We need it to stay open. It is the Vermont skiing version of the sink drain strainer.


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## MountSnow (Apr 4, 2019)

*CLOSING DAY ANNOUNCEMENT: *

Mount Snow will be open through this Sunday, April 7th. We will then be closed Monday-Thursday, before reopening on Friday for our closing weekend of April 12-14th.


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## drjeff (Apr 4, 2019)

The post they put up on their FB page says that reopening for Easter Weekend if mother nature cooperates is a possibility as well....


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## elks (Apr 4, 2019)

Seems earlier than last year, no?


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## drjeff (Apr 4, 2019)

kelly001 said:


> Seems earlier than last year, no?


Sunday April 22nd was Mount Snow's last day last season.

So if they go the extra weekend and operate through Easter Sunday, the 21st this year, no real difference. Add in the 3 or extra weekends in October and early November at the start of this season, and it's been a very good length season for Mount Snow this year

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## NYDB (Apr 4, 2019)

All that snowmaking power and only open 1 week later than Magic.  Interesting.  

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## Newpylong (Apr 4, 2019)

You are omitting the number of acres and front loaded days at the beginning of the season vs Magic. So, not that interesting in reality.


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## NYDB (Apr 4, 2019)

It"s interesting you dont find it interesting 

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## drjeff (Apr 4, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> All that snowmaking power and only open 1 week later than Magic.  Interesting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using AlpineZone mobile app


Not closing on the 14th (or possibly the 21st) due to lack of snow. It's a business decision, and a similar decision that many ski areas make every year

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## sull1102 (Apr 4, 2019)

Wow, seems like an early switch to weekends only given the snow level. This, in addition to Attitash not even making it to April for daily ops and Crotched not making it to April at all just shows why we should all appreciate the Killington management team that pushes the season into mid-May. I know this timeline is still considered normal for Peak, but the current snow is certainly above average and should warrant staying open longer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thebigo (Apr 4, 2019)

sull1102 said:


> Wow, seems like an early switch to weekends only given the snow level. This, in addition to Attitash not even making it to April for daily ops and Crotched not making it to April at all just shows why we should all appreciate the Killington management team that pushes the season into mid-May. I know this timeline is still considered normal for Peak, but the current snow is certainly above average and should warrant staying open longer.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using AlpineZone mobile app



Crotched should have been open last sunday but I doubt they would have had the coverage to open this weekend. Fact is it was a very lean year in southern nh compared to the greens and whites. Trees were skiable only a handful of days. Wildcat however is deep, would be nice to see them open daily through nh vacation week. Longterm forecast suggests continued below average temps.


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## Smellytele (Apr 5, 2019)

thebigo said:


> Crotched should have been open last sunday but I doubt they would have had the coverage to open this weekend. Fact is it was a very lean year in southern nh compared to the greens and whites. Trees were skiable only a handful of days. Wildcat however is deep, would be nice to see them open daily through nh vacation week. Longterm forecast suggests continued below average temps.



Pats peak which always closes before April (last day Sunday 3/31) still has plenty of coverage so it isn’t a coverage thing. Well I guess it could be if the crotch cheaped out on snow making.


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## Glenn (Apr 5, 2019)

With many areas, it's a lack of interest vs. a lack of snow. Kids are switching to spring sports and golf is starting up again. My wife and I have skied many a last day with prime conditions....and no one is there. They'll clamor to ski the WROD in November, but are nowhere to be seen when it's sunny, 50, soft snow and 75% of the mountain is open. Is what it is I suppose.


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## Ol Dirty Noodle (Apr 5, 2019)

It’s all formulaic and analyzed by computers.  Laws dictate the minimum number of staff/facilities required for ex amount of trails/lifts etc.  if the analytics and projections don’t meet the cost of op or desired profit margin, it’s fiscally dictated they close.


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## drjeff (Apr 5, 2019)

The other factor as well that can play a role more and more in this current era of multi resort passes, is if a pass product has a resort available in a general area, the question of how many resorts should they fiscally keep running later in the season, has to be considered as well.

I'm sure that we'll hear the annual line from Peak soon about how Peak passholders can continue to get their turns in for a few more weeks at Wildcat, however that's a heck of a more substantial drive from the New York and further South areas that they're selling a bunch of passes in these days than Mount Snow.  And when they go late season at Big Boulder, it's almost all dedicated to park features.

The fiscal side of me gets this strategy for sure. The ski addict side of me doesn't like it as while it doesn't prevent me from getting later season turns on my pass, being purely selfish, it makes it much more logistically challenging and time consuming for sure...


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## tamedog (Apr 5, 2019)

was up at mt snow mon-weds and had the place to ourselves. plenty of coverage and absolutely perfect spring conditions, not too heavy or wet.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 5, 2019)

kelly001 said:


> Seems earlier than last year, no?



They got hammered with snow last March.  This year was nothing even close to that.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 5, 2019)

sull1102 said:


> Wow, seems like an early switch to weekends only given the snow level. This, in addition to Attitash not even making it to April for daily ops and Crotched not making it to April at all just shows why we should all appreciate the Killington management team that pushes the season into mid-May. I know this timeline is still considered normal for Peak, but the current snow is certainly above average and should warrant staying open longer.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using AlpineZone mobile app



Its mid April and it's going to be 50 and rain all week.  Not really all that unreasonable


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## drjeff (Apr 6, 2019)

Lots of sections of welded Snowmaking pipe showed up this past week staged along the bottom of Olympic.... Replacing existing pipe on the Northface? Maybe adding snowmaking to Olympic?? Time will tell I guess.....

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## chuckstah (Apr 6, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Lots of sections of welded Snowmaking pipe showed up this past week staged along the bottom of Olympic.... Replacing existing pipe on the Northface? Maybe adding snowmaking to Olympic?? Time will tell I guess.....
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



I saw that pipe being delivered into the nearest parking lot to the Discovery Center a week ago Wednesday. I wondered where it was going? Looks like the promised snow-making expansion may be starting. But I like Olympic natural!


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## ss20 (Apr 6, 2019)

I'd be OK with piping on Fool's Gold and Rusty Nail in Carinthia, Hop OR SHootout on the Main Face, and Big/Little Dipper in Sunbrook.  Don't touch the North Face.

I'm bad...only got 3 days at Mount Snow this year .  I do eyeball the report frequently tho...seems like more grooming this year Dr. Jeff???


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## Newpylong (Apr 6, 2019)

At least Olympic is wide enough already where there should be no terrain changes required. When they start looking at runs like Jaws, Challenger, Uncles, Ledge, etc is when it's time to cry foul.


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## drjeff (Apr 7, 2019)

Clarified by Mtn ops, the pipe currently staged at the bottom of Olympic, will be replacing old water pipe on Freefall this off season.

The pipe will be pulled over the snow once closing day has happened

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## ss20 (Apr 7, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Clarified by Mtn ops, the pipe currently staged at the bottom of Olympic, will be replacing old water pipe on Freefall this off season.
> 
> The pipe will be pulled over the snow once closing day has happened
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



That's good for early season...need that trail!!!


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## MommaBear (Apr 8, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Lots of sections of welded Snowmaking pipe showed up this past week staged along the bottom of Olympic.... Replacing existing pipe on the Northface? Maybe adding snowmaking to Olympic?? Time will tell I guess.....



Saw that piping yesterday and was wondering if I just never noticed it before (covered by snow) or if it was new....lol!


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## MountSnow (Apr 10, 2019)

This Sunday, April 14th, will be the final day of operations at Mount Snow for the 2018/2019 season. 

Please join us in sending off another great season at Mount Snow, during our final Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Sunday will also feature our Golden Egg Hunt, with eggs hidden all across the mountain, including a golden egg that's good for a 2019/2020 Peak Pass.


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## skiur (Apr 10, 2019)

Thought you guys were going for the 21st?  Kinda cheesy to have an easter egg hunt the week before easter!  Mt Snow had a lot of hype after last year and did not seem to live up to it this year.


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## skimagic (Apr 10, 2019)

skiur said:


> Thought you guys were going for the 21st?  Kinda cheesy to have an easter egg hunt the week before easter!  Mt Snow had a lot of hype after last year and did not seem to live up to it this year.


 
Well I was just at ski Cooper this past Saturday and they were having their Eastr Egg hunt, so it appears to be a nice family fun event no matter what time of the year.  The closing date is either second or third weekend typically, and is on par with Stratton and Okemo. Bromley is closed. 
Business is business.


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## sull1102 (Apr 10, 2019)

skiur said:


> Thought you guys were going for the 21st?  Kinda cheesy to have an easter egg hunt the week before easter!  Mt Snow had a lot of hype after last year and did not seem to live up to it this year.


Totally agree with you about the hype, they started out the gate hot and then kept it up throughout most of the season with ridiculous crowds, but here at the end they are really crashing. They ended daily ops before Stratton and Okemo and now the closing date has been finalized a week earlier than hoped. Very surprised and disappointed overall left hoping this is not the start of the end with them closing early every year.

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## Smellytele (Apr 11, 2019)

sull1102 said:


> Totally agree with you about the hype, they started out the gate hot and then kept it up throughout most of the season with ridiculous crowds, but here at the end they are really crashing. They ended daily ops before Stratton and Okemo and now the closing date has been finalized a week earlier than hoped. Very surprised and disappointed overall left hoping this is not the start of the end with them closing early every year.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using AlpineZone mobile app



Peaks can't afford a new chair at Attitash so why would they stay open at Snow and lose more money?


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## drjeff (Apr 11, 2019)

Whether it's related to the closing date this weekend or not, mtn ops did over the last day or 2 pull the new snowmaking water line for Freefall into place, not sure if other off season projects where dragging things over the snow vs the ground played into the decision of the hard closing date this coming weekend or not?

Hopefully after their (Peaks) next quarterly investors news conference in about a week or so if I recall correctly, we'll here what off season improvements will be coming up for all of their resorts this Summer.

I will admit that I was hoping for some Easter turns at my home hill, and was expecting that the folks at Mount Snow would be keeping  me in suspense about if they would of been happening or not until the middle of next week


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## jaytrem (Apr 11, 2019)

Anybody need a free ticket for this weekend? A friend had his season wiped out due to an illness.  Luckily only 1 ticket left on his 2 4 packs.


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## skiur (Apr 11, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Whether it's related to the closing date this weekend or not, mtn ops did over the last day or 2 pull the new snowmaking water line for Freefall into place, not sure if other off season projects where dragging things over the snow vs the ground played into the decision of the hard closing date this coming weekend or not?
> 
> Hopefully after their (Peaks) next quarterly investors news conference in about a week or so if I recall correctly, we'll here what off season improvements will be coming up for all of their resorts this Summer.
> 
> I will admit that I was hoping for some Easter turns at my home hill, and was expecting that the folks at Mount Snow would be keeping  me in suspense about if they would of been happening or not until the middle of next week



So lack of snow isnt the reason for closing?  Looks to be a bit on the chilly side next week so if they have the snow now I would think it could make it to next weekend.


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## slatham (Apr 11, 2019)

skiur said:


> Thought you guys were going for the 21st?  Kinda cheesy to have an easter egg hunt the week before easter!  Mt Snow had a lot of hype after last year and did not seem to live up to it this year.



Not for nothing but the GFS weather model shows 3-4+" of rain - and no snow - between now and Friday morning April 19th. Temps get as high as the 60's and pretty much don't go below freezing for more than a few fleeting hours. What you see now is not what you'll get in 9 days time.....

FWIW I don't think the kiddieo's are going to complain that the Easter Egg Hunt is not on Easter.


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## drjeff (Apr 11, 2019)

skiur said:


> So lack of snow isnt the reason for closing?  Looks to be a bit on the chilly side next week so if they have the snow now I would think it could make it to next weekend.



No clue what the actual decision for making this Sunday the last day is/was.

In my own opinion, from what I saw snow level wise firsthand this past Sunday while skiing all over the mountain, and what the weather has been this week so far and what the potential weather is looking it it will be next week, even though non wintery, I doubt the decision was 100% because of lack of snow over 10 days ahead of time.

It's also 100% obvious via the Somerset webcam time loop on their main page that they've been doing the work along freefall to put the new snowmaking water pipe into place the past few days. The trees they dropped last week between the bottom jumps of Inferno and the half pipe still appear to be resting on the snow where they were felled per the Carinthia web cam this morning.

I know, from past years, Mount Snow, as well as many other mountains, try and do some work, over snow, at the end of the season when things like new snowmaking pipe or lift tower removal need to be moved as it's easier and less abrasive for the metal objects being moved to drag them over snow than over dry ground.

Aside from the snowmaking water pipe replacement and tree removal to help consolidate snowmaking for the North wall of the half pipe and the base of the lower jump(s) on Inferno, Mount Snow, to my knowledge, hasn't announced anything else in store for off season improvements, and that typically happens at/after the Peak quarterly shareholders report, which I believe is scheduled for sometime next week.

I was definitely hoping for some Easter Sunday turns at my home hill, as that's the next day that I would of had a chance to do so as I'm off to Florida tomorrow with my wife and kids for Spring Break for a week


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## skiur (Apr 11, 2019)

slatham said:


> Not for nothing but the GFS weather model shows 3-4+" of rain - and no snow - between now and Friday morning April 19th. Temps get as high as the 60's and pretty much don't go below freezing for more than a few fleeting hours. What you see now is not what you'll get in 9 days time.....
> 
> FWIW I don't think the kiddieo's are going to complain that the Easter Egg Hunt is not on Easter.



Not the weather I am seeing, nor do I care much about Mt Snow, just find it funny that they hype it up so much last year and earlier this season but then close earlier than normal with a ton of snow.  If you want to thump your chest and be one of the big boys then dont close a week early while okemo and stratton are still open.


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## FBGM (Apr 11, 2019)

skiur said:


> Not the weather I am seeing, nor do I care much about Mt Snow, just find it funny that they hype it up so much last year and earlier this season but then close earlier than normal with a ton of snow.  If you want to thump your chest and be one of the big boys then dont close a week early while okemo and stratton are still open.



It’s called pull the plug and minimize the bleeding. 

Place probably realizes they are in debt to their eyeballs finally. No surprise they have no summer capex projects. Company usually has to make money for those to happen. Guessing they don’t have any more funny money investors lined up to bankroll their junk resorts.


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## chuckstah (Apr 11, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Anybody need a free ticket for this weekend? A friend had his season wiped out due to an illness.  Luckily only 1 ticket left on his 2 4 packs.


Jay, I could use the ticket for a friend Saturday if it's still available, if there's a way to get it?

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## jaytrem (Apr 11, 2019)

chuckstah said:


> Jay, I could use the ticket for a friend Saturday if it's still available, if there's a way to get it?



Cool, PM me your email and I'll send it to you.


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## chuckstah (Apr 11, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Cool, PM me your email and I'll send it to you.



PM sent.  Thanks jaytrem!


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2019)

skiur said:


> Thought you guys were going for the 21st?  Kinda cheesy to have an easter egg hunt the week before easter!  Mt Snow had a lot of hype after last year and did not seem to live up to it this year.



After looking at the CAMs and forecast, you think they could offer good skiing this weekend?


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## njdiver85 (Apr 15, 2019)

Even if they stayed open, which I personally wish they would have, how many people would realistically show up?  Lots of  people seem to complain about mountains closing, but I doubt most of those complainers would actually be at the mountain if it were open so late in the season.  This weekend was incredibly quiet, despite excellent conditions for this time of season.  So I'm sure this was partly a business decision and a very reasonable one at that.  If more people were to show up the last two weekends, than perhaps it would be different.  Until that time, I think Mount Snow made the right decision.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 15, 2019)

njdiver85 said:


> Even if they stayed open, which I personally wish they would have, how many people would realistically show up?  Lots of  people seem to complain about mountains closing, but I doubt most of those complainers would actually be at the mountain if it were open so late in the season.  This weekend was incredibly quiet, despite excellent conditions for this time of season.  So I'm sure this was partly a business decision and a very reasonable one at that.  If more people were to show up the last two weekends, than perhaps it would be different.  Until that time, I think Mount Snow made the right decision.


Depends on the ski area and weather.  Wildcat was packed on Saturday

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## cdskier (Apr 15, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Depends on the ski area and weather.  Wildcat was packed on Saturday



Sugarbush had a good crowd as well.


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## skiur (Apr 15, 2019)

cdskier said:


> Sugarbush had a good crowd as well.



Killington had a great crowd with some incredible skiing!


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2019)

skiur said:


> Killington had a great crowd with some incredible skiing!



April skiers congregate at the areas with a well known reputation for late season skiing that is the result of being further north, higher in elevation with colder temps and more snow - and having the business model to be consistently open late (vs. Stowe for instance, though they are going a bit later than last year due to snow and Easter). 

SoVT even with it's snowmaking prowess cannot overcome the advance of spring as well as the K, SB, Wildcat etc.


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## MountSnow (Apr 15, 2019)

We've always said we're going to be a major player when it comes to early-season operations. Our $30M in snowmaking upgrades have set us up to be able to hit it hard and fast as soon as we have good temps in the fall. As for late season, we'll leave that up to Wildcat, they are much better situated for late season operations, plus they are right across the street from Tuckerman Ravine!


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## NYDB (Apr 15, 2019)

I think mount snow could build a reputation as a semi late season player.  They could bury the north face and ski til 5/1.  Probably not a money maker for 5+ years since you'll need to build the rep, but first stop off 91 with late season bumps would be a draw.

They could turn that lodge over there into a big party.  

I know not a part of the business model but it seems they are only using 1/2 the potential on their muscular snowmaking system.  

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## drjeff (Apr 15, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> I think mount snow could build a reputation as a semi late season player.  They could bury the north face and ski til 5/1.  Probably not a money maker for 5+ years since you'll need to build the rep, but first stop off 91 with late season bumps would be a draw.
> 
> They could turn that lodge over there into a big party.
> 
> ...


When they presented the plan for the Snowmaking system post West Lake, it was always in reference to the goals of things such as double the opening day terrain over the old roll out, all Snowmaking terrain covered by Christmas week, and faster recoveries over more acres of terrain, never about going deeper into April or May....

It's tough though to watch much of it sit idle now basically from late January on, knowing they could bury some trails for May skiing if they wanted too.

Peak and late season is going to be all about Wildcat.... Not an awful thing, but totally feels like they leave stuff on the table with that strategy....

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## zyk (Apr 16, 2019)

I was surprised Saturday that Carinthia seemed busier and more lively than the main mountain.  Could present a different type of option for late season.


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## Smellytele (Apr 16, 2019)

Aw the golden children don’t get their late season skiing. At least they can get to their summit during their season unlike peaks Attitash. 


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## skiur (Apr 16, 2019)

zyk said:


> I was surprised Saturday that Carinthia seemed busier and more lively than the main mountain.  Could present a different type of option for late season.



You could be onto something there, not many, if any parks still open at this time of year, I bet leaving a park open late would bring enough people in, you have the snow....just sacrifice a big jump or two and you have the snow to keep everything else going.


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## Glenn (Apr 16, 2019)

skiur said:


> You could be onto something there, not many, if any parks still open at this time of year, I bet leaving a park open late would bring enough people in, you have the snow....just sacrifice a big jump or two and you have the snow to keep everything else going.




A few years back, they closed out the season with just Carinthia open. It was a fun day.


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## drjeff (Aug 30, 2019)

Just finished a nice hike around the mountain and some Summer enhancements are noticeable and coming along nicely!

First, Snowmaking expansion is happening! I noticed new air and water pipes installed on Fools Gold over at Carinthia and on the Moonwalk, Little Dipper, Moonbeam loop in Sunbrook! I'm guessing some tree cutting on skiers/riders left will be happening for the Sunbrook loop expansion as all of that pipe was a good 20-25+ feet into the woods. A bulldozer was dragging the last few sections of pipe up the hill to the top of Moonwalk this morning while I was out hiking.

Second really noticeable thing was the section of Long John from the top of Ridge down to the top of Carinthia. Skiers/riders right was significantly blasted and widened above and beyond what was done 2 Summers ago. That entire section is now basically 100 feet wide from the Snowmaking pipe on skiers/riders left over to the blasted out, graded and filled rock wall on the right now.

Lastly, the mountain ops building that burned in the Spring has been leveled, and some foundation work, of a much smaller footprint as of now atleast, is going on on the area of the old building that was closest to the main base lodge. Looks to be roughly 1/4 to maybe 1/3rd of the footprint of the old building right now.

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## drjeff (Aug 30, 2019)

Also there's about 20 SMI Polecat fan guns stationed in one of the outer parking lots currently.

They're not new, as the 3 control panels that weren't fully encased in plastic wrap had between 1600 and 2300 hours on them.

Not sure if they're going to be installed at Mount Snow or shipped out to a different Peak resort?? 

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## ski&soccermom (Aug 30, 2019)

That is exciting - especially Sunbrook.  Thanks for the update!!


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## ss20 (Aug 31, 2019)

Fool's Gold, and the Little Dipper loop are fine places to add snowmaking...put it on my record that I said that :lol:

As long as they don't touch trails like Jaws, Olympic, Challenger, Big Dipper, and keep a few Main Face naturals like Ledge and One More Time natural I'm happy.  

I am surprised to see additional snowmaking terrain in Sunbrook before a new lift goes in.  Purely from a logistics standpoint I'd think it'd be easier/cheaper to put in snowmaking up there while you already have a bunch of heavy machinery putting in a new lift.


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## drjeff (Aug 31, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Fool's Gold, and the Little Dipper loop are fine places to add snowmaking...put it on my record that I said that [emoji38]
> 
> As long as they don't touch trails like Jaws, Olympic, Challenger, Big Dipper, and keep a few Main Face naturals like Ledge and One More Time natural I'm happy.
> 
> I am surprised to see additional snowmaking terrain in Sunbrook before a new lift goes in.  Purely from a logistics standpoint I'd think it'd be easier/cheaper to put in snowmaking up there while you already have a bunch of heavy machinery putting in a new lift.


Looked like it was all being done in house with a couple of excavators and a bulldozer, all of which the mountain has.

Given the amount of pipe they've replaced in the last few years, I'm guessing the mountain ops crew is well versed in what they're doing 

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## FBGM (Sep 1, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Looked like it was all being done in house with a couple of excavators and a bulldozer, all of which the mountain has.
> 
> Given the amount of pipe they've replaced in the last few years, I'm guessing the mountain ops crew is well versed in what they're doing
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Well versed at doing it ghetto backwoods style. Vail will change this starting soon. Get ready for correct construction you backwoods inbreds.


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## ss20 (Sep 1, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Well versed at doing it ghetto backwoods style. Vail will change this starting soon. Get ready for correct construction you backwoods inbreds.



Yeah say goodbye to those crappy 5-digit $$$ costing fan guns that Mount Snow has the most of of any northeast ski resort...


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## Pez (Sep 1, 2019)

I’ve gone on record as saying I’m against and modernization on that side of the hill.  However I guess it’s inevitable. Just kind of hope they keep the laid back feel over there.  


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## Newpylong (Sep 2, 2019)

Say what you may about Peaks, and specifically the personal issues some people here have with their Director of Projects, they know how to design and install snowmaking. I've seen the work up close and know some people putting the equipment on the hill, and they fall far shy of "getto."

There are only really two outside outfits that do large scale installs (Tatro and Royal) in this region. Peaks will use them for the major items such as feed line installs (like West Lake) but the rest is done in house and is of good design and workmanship.


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## Jcb890 (Sep 3, 2019)

Awesome stuff, thanks for the intel Dr. Jeff!!


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## drjeff (Sep 3, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Awesome stuff, thanks for the intel Dr. Jeff!!


Not a problem Jcb! 

And for me this was a case where my standard plan of attack for hiking a ski area in the off season paid off with the discoveries I found.

My typical plan of attack is to start up established work roads (much easier than "bush whacking" through knee high grasses, brambles and other associated ground cover) and then if I come across any "fresh" excavator/bulldozer tracks that deviate off of the main work road, I follow them! More often than not I find some new stuff, and worst case, I end up hiking a different route than I may have never done before.

In this case, based on some social media comments I read last week about a new park at Carinthia, I knew I wanted to hike over there to check things out, and then I saw fresh bulldozer tracks heading from the top of Carinthia over towards Sunbrook, and just followed them (and all the newly installed pipe) all the way to the top of Sunbrook

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## FBGM (Sep 4, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Not a problem Jcb!
> 
> And for me this was a case where my standard plan of attack for hiking a ski area in the off season paid off with the discoveries I found.
> 
> ...



I’m surprised any park stuff is going on. That should be the last of any park expansion. With Vails cock in the door now I see the Carinthia thing getting cut back starting soon after the ink dries. Vail has shown to cut back on terrain parks at most of their resorts. Yes they still usually have a big park and jumps and rails but not the 10 trails worth like Mt Snow. It’s a financial loss over there with just the jibbers. New lodge now - Vail sees more burgers and beers and less terrain parks. It will get cut hard.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 4, 2019)

And there we have it.

you have achieved highwaystar awful.  

Kudos on being a complete internet hack.


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2019)

jimmywilson69 said:


> And there we have it.
> 
> you have achieved highwaystar awful.
> 
> Kudos on being a complete internet hack.



LOL - that was a good one...


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 10, 2019)

Any Mount Snow reps on here?

I'm finding it impossible to contact the ticket window to resolve a ticket I purchased on Nov 4th, to ski on Thursday Nov 14th. Mount Snow won't be open until the 15th.

Have called 3 days in a row multiple times, emailed, left a message on the voicemail... and I will keep doing so, but what's going on over there?


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## njdiver85 (Nov 10, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Any Mount Snow reps on here?
> 
> I'm finding it impossible to contact the ticket window to resolve a ticket I purchased on Nov 4th, to ski on Thursday Nov 14th. Mount Snow won't be open until the 15th.
> 
> Have called 3 days in a row multiple times, emailed, left a message on the voicemail... and I will keep doing so, but what's going on over there?




Not an insider, but from experience, try calling again, but ask to speak to someone in the Season Pass Office.  They usually have someone staffed over there that should be able to help you.


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## machski (Nov 10, 2019)

Now that they are owned by the Galactic Empire, I seriously doubt we will hear from any reps on this forum again.

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## bdfreetuna (Nov 10, 2019)

Left another message at the ticket/pass line. If I don't hear back in another day or so I'll probably call Vail, although I'd rather have Mount Snow just exchange my pass for a day they'll be open.


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## machski (Nov 10, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Left another message at the ticket/pass line. If I don't hear back in another day or so I'll probably call Vail, although I'd rather have Mount Snow just exchange my pass for a day they'll be open.


At this point, if you used plastic, I'd just call the card company and dispute the charge.  If that is the way Vail/Snow want to do business, sick the card company on them.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## andrec10 (Nov 10, 2019)

machski said:


> At this point, if you used plastic, I'd just call the card company and dispute the charge.  If that is the way Vail/Snow want to do business, sick the card company on them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



I had to dispute my Peak pass when I upgraded to a Epic Local. Magically, the credit showed up the same day I threatened to place it in dispute.


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 11, 2019)

What are lift lines going to be like this week and this weekend?
Saw the photos of Killington and it looked like a madhouse. Someone said 45 min wait at Sunday River also.


----------



## ss20 (Nov 11, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> What are lift lines going to be like this week and this weekend?
> Saw the photos of Killington and it looked like a madhouse. Someone said 45 min wait at Sunday River also.



Probably close to nothing.  The number of lifts open this coming weekend is going to be literally 10-20x what it was this previous weekend.  When you have 3 lifts open in the entire Northeast the 2,000 people wanting to ski are gonna be packed in tighter than the following weekend when 4,000 people want to ski and there's 15-20 lifts open.   

The skier numbers are pulled directly from my you-know-what but the concept still applies...demand could be double or triple what it was last week but the supply will be infinitely greater.  Wildcat, Jiminy Peak, Mount Snow, Hunter, Wachusett, Mohawk, Loon, Bretton Woods are all likely to be open.


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 11, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Probably close to nothing.  The number of lifts open this coming weekend is going to be literally 10-20x what it was this previous weekend.  When you have 3 lifts open in the entire Northeast the 2,000 people wanting to ski are gonna be packed in tighter than the following weekend when 4,000 people want to ski and there's 15-20 lifts open.
> 
> The skier numbers are pulled directly from my you-know-what but the concept still applies...demand could be double or triple what it was last week but the supply will be infinitely greater.  Wildcat, Jiminy Peak, Mount Snow, Hunter, Wachusett, Mohawk, Loon, Bretton Woods are all likely to be open.


Well this is good to hear!


----------



## njdiver85 (Nov 11, 2019)

So Mount Snow has moved their opening day up to Wednesday now!  Great news!


----------



## asnowmobiler (Nov 11, 2019)

Big Boulder will open Friday.
The place sucks, but I may do a few runs Sunday.

This Friday November 15th from 3pm-10pm @bigboulderpark will be opening for the 2019/2020 season. $30 lift tickets all weekend with 2 lifts, and 2 trails Freedom and Tannenbaum.
Your peak pass can still be upgraded to an @epicpass until November 17th.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 11, 2019)

njdiver85 said:


> So Mount Snow has moved their opening day up to Wednesday now!  Great news!


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Nov 11, 2019)

Rumor has it they didn't want to refund Tuna's money!   :lol:


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 11, 2019)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Rumor has it they didn't want to refund Tuna's money!   :lol:



Cracks me up. But to be fair:: they did call me back after 4 days and left a msg saying "we're now open Thursday you can still use it".

Not a total communication fail, I can imagine things were a little up in the air on their end. Good luck ordering a seasons pass or anything over the phone though.


----------



## urungus (Nov 11, 2019)

From https://www.mountsnow.com/ski-ride/snow-report/

We'll now be welcoming guests to the slopes this Wednesday, November 13.  We plan on opening with Cascade, Canyon, Launch Pad, Long John, and Beaver Hill on the Main Face with River Run and Freefall opening up on the North Face.  There will be a few features setup on Cascade for the park enthusiast while we work on a Gulch build for opening later in the week. For Opening Day the Bluebird Express and Challenger lifts be spinning from 9am-3:30pm.


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## JimG. (Nov 11, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Cracks me up. But to be fair:: they did call me back after 4 days and left a msg saying "we're now open Thursday you can still use it".
> 
> Not a total communication fail, I can imagine things were a little up in the air on their end. Good luck ordering a seasons pass or anything over the phone though.



If it works out for you it's all good.

Online transactions are the tool of choice. Phones require people.


----------



## spiderpig (Nov 12, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Probably close to nothing.  The number of lifts open this coming weekend is going to be literally 10-20x what it was this previous weekend.  When you have 3 lifts open in the entire Northeast the 2,000 people wanting to ski are gonna be packed in tighter than the following weekend when 4,000 people want to ski and there's 15-20 lifts open.
> 
> The skier numbers are pulled directly from my you-know-what but the concept still applies...demand could be double or triple what it was last week but the supply will be infinitely greater.  Wildcat, Jiminy Peak, Mount Snow, Hunter, Wachusett, Mohawk, Loon, Bretton Woods are all likely to be open.



I think it's a tad early for Mohawk, but Blue should be open.


----------



## sugarbushskier (Nov 12, 2019)

Was planning on heading to Mt Snow this Friday to kick off my season and take full advantage of my Epic Pass, but reading their updated Tuesday AM snow report, I don't see any listing for Long John/Beaver Run route down from the top, just their two other previous listed options.  While this is still terrific given it's early season, I'm a bit disappointed that they've cut back ttb options. 

LJ/BR isn't the most exciting of trail combos, but at least it was another route down. Could be the storm didn't produce?


----------



## FBGM (Nov 12, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Was planning on heading to Mt Snow this Friday to kick off my season and take full advantage of my Epic Pass, but reading their updated Tuesday AM snow report, I don't see any listing for Long John/Beaver Run route down from the top, just their two other previous listed options.  While this is still terrific given it's early season, I'm a bit disappointed that they've cut back ttb options.
> 
> LJ/BR isn't the most exciting of trail combos, but at least it was another route down. Could be the storm didn't produce?



More likely their snowmaking and mountain ops team failed to deliver. Over promise. Under deliver. Think they can do it all with their big snowmaking system but when it’s utilized poor to begin with and temps don’t work...under deliver.


----------



## andrec10 (Nov 12, 2019)

FBGM said:


> More likely their snowmaking and mountain ops team failed to deliver. Over promise. Under deliver. Think they can do it all with their big snowmaking system but when it’s utilized poor to begin with and temps don’t work...under deliver.



You must be so much fun at Parties!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 12, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Was planning on heading to Mt Snow this Friday to kick off my season and take full advantage of my Epic Pass, but reading their updated Tuesday AM snow report, I don't see any listing for Long John/Beaver Run route down from the top, just their two other previous listed options.  While this is still terrific given it's early season, I'm a bit disappointed that they've cut back ttb options.
> 
> LJ/BR isn't the most exciting of trail combos, but at least it was another route down. Could be the storm didn't produce?



Opening moved from Friday to Wednesday. So on Wed they won't have Long John, but I'm hoping Thursday they will (I'll be there), if not Friday. They'll be able to make snow on Long John on Wednesday.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Nov 12, 2019)

FBGM said:


> More likely their snowmaking and mountain ops team failed to deliver. Over promise. Under deliver. Think they can do it all with their big snowmaking system but when it’s utilized poor to begin with and temps don’t work...under deliver.



Can you show me on the doll where they hurt you?


----------



## FBGM (Nov 12, 2019)

andrec10 said:


> You must be so much fun at Parties!



Ok Boomer


----------



## sugarbushskier (Nov 12, 2019)

Opening moved from Friday to Wednesday. So on Wed they won't have Long John, but I'm hoping Thursday they will (I'll be there), if not Friday. They'll be able to make snow on Long John on Wednesday.

That's what I'm hoping.  An extra day or two of cold temps should make all the difference. Maybe they'll surprise us with some additional terrain as well.  

Just so looking forward to getting back out.


----------



## andrec10 (Nov 12, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Ok Boomer



I miss the cutoff by a year, you cranky F@ck...


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 12, 2019)

andrec10 said:


> You must be so much fun at Parties!


well, one thing is for certain, he's not doing any FBGM at parties.  I'll let others look up what those initials actually mean.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## drjeff (Nov 12, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Was planning on heading to Mt Snow this Friday to kick off my season and take full advantage of my Epic Pass, but reading their updated Tuesday AM snow report, I don't see any listing for Long John/Beaver Run route down from the top, just their two other previous listed options.  While this is still terrific given it's early season, I'm a bit disappointed that they've cut back ttb options.
> 
> LJ/BR isn't the most exciting of trail combos, but at least it was another route down. Could be the storm didn't produce?



Based on a couple of pictures that some of my friends who are full time residents of the Mount Snow area have posted the last few days of the mountain.

They definitely started Long John off of the summit, so it shouldn't take much more time to get it open once the temps arrive.

The only variable being is that in years past, when the only park at Carinthia open early season is The Gulch, numerous complaints about people heading for the parks off of the summit going too fast, have happened. And one of the possible solutions was to not have long john/deer run available until after they get Nitro open.

I would suspect that we'll find out later today as the temps drop and they fire the system back up as to what trails they'll be working on (probably to open for the weekend). While they may need to top dress the terrain that they made snow on already post freeze up, it looked like they employed their typically successful strategy for creating a good surface post freeze up by tracking out the snow with the cats, then letting it set up, freeze and drain a bit, before they groom it out this evening. If that was their plan, then they should be on to expansion mode very soon


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Nov 12, 2019)

drjeff said:


> it looked like they employed their typically successful strategy for creating a good surface post freeze up by tracking out the snow with the cats, then letting it set up, freeze and drain a bit, before they groom it out this evening.



FBGM said they poorly utilize their system I can't possibly see how what you typed can be true :lol:


----------



## JimG. (Nov 12, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> well, one thing is for certain, he's not doing any FBGM at parties.  I'll let others look up what those initials actually mean.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Just looked it up. 

I think our friend is at best "optimistic".


----------



## urungus (Nov 12, 2019)

drjeff said:


> The only variable being is that in years past, when the only park at Carinthia open early season is The Gulch, numerous complaints about people heading for the parks off of the summit going too fast, have happened. And one of the possible solutions was to not have long john/deer run available until after they get Nitro open.



How is waiting for Nitro to open a solution ?  That would only cut off a small portion of Long John if you are coming from the top.  If you are not coming from the top, then I don’t see how Long John would affected if people are lapping Nitro on the Nitro chair vs lapping the Gulch on the Heavy Metal chair ?


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 12, 2019)

Upper part of Long John, you can easily hit 65mph in an aero tuck. On a snowboard I'd say close to 70. :grin:


----------



## drjeff (Nov 12, 2019)

urungus said:


> How is waiting for Nitro to open a solution ?  That would only cut off a small portion of Long John if you are coming from the top.  If you are not coming from the top, then I don’t see how Long John would affected if people are lapping Nitro on the Nitro chair vs lapping the Gulch on the Heavy Metal chair ?



It was a suggestion that has received some discussion. I agree that it makes very little sense.

It will also be interesting to see how the "Long John Expressway" (from basically the top of Ridge down to the top of Carinthia) is this season now that it was substantially widened over the Summer to basically 100 feet wide the entire way (used to be in the 60-70 foot wide range).

The reality is that given the wide range of folks who use that trail for varying reasons, and the lack of etiquette that some people display on that trail (especially when in the vicinity of true beginners), there's no real good solution to address the valid concerns that folks have about that part of the trail


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Nov 12, 2019)

100 foot wide eh?  Split it down the middle with fence and create a a passing lane  :lol:


----------



## drjeff (Nov 12, 2019)

jimmywilson69 said:


> 100 foot wide eh?  Split it down the middle with fence and create a a passing lane  :lol:



I think the biggest issue with the new width, is the rock band that on skier's/riders right, that used to be anywhere from a few feet to as many as 10 feet tall, that folks used to jump off of, is now closer to 10-15+ feet tall most of the way onto a flat landing.  Probably only a matter of time until someone, skiing or riding where it's marked that they're not supposed to up on top of that rock band, are going to jump off and hurt themselves or someone below when they land on the flat terrain......

Again, if folks used proper etiquette and kept their speed in check along that section, none of this would be an issue on that part of Long John


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 12, 2019)

IMO the cliff to the right of Long John is fair game as long as you don't land on someone. I ski right up there for a 5-7' drop routinely. 10 feet to a flat landing I try to avoid.

I also have no problem with advanced/expert skiers going around slower skiers as if they're slightly mobile GS gates. Just remember, these human beings aren't breakaway gates and they must actually be fully avoided with a little room to spare.

If you want to ski 0mph and have nobody skiing fast nearby there is always the bunny slope.

When it's crowded AF like on a weekend that's another matter, but still plenty of opportunity for passing.

On a relatively empty day I ski Long John/Deer Run as fast as I can go. You need the speed to carry you in a couple sections anyway.

Interested to see how much difference the widening makes.


----------



## FBGM (Nov 12, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> IMO the cliff to the right of Long John is fair game as long as you don't land on someone. I ski right up there for a 5-7' drop routinely. 10 feet to a flat landing I try to avoid.
> 
> I also have no problem with advanced/expert skiers going around slower skiers as if they're slightly mobile GS gates. Just remember, these human beings aren't breakaway gates and they must actually be fully avoided with a little room to spare.
> 
> ...



Yeah buddy. Just mow over them jongs and Jerry’s. You’ll eventually get sued by some dentist from long island or some Asian businessman from the city. But you’re only worth pennies so they will go for the ski area after they take your life savings of a single wide an 95’ Astro van.


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## Edd (Nov 12, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Yeah buddy. Just mow over them jongs and Jerry’s. You’ll eventually get sued by some dentist from long island or some Asian businessman from the city. But you’re only worth pennies so they will go for the ski area after they take your life savings of a single wide an 95’ Astro van.



Remind me where you live? I recall some Park City reference but cant remember specifics.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 12, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Yeah buddy. Just mow over them jongs and Jerry’s. You’ll eventually get sued by some dentist from long island or some Asian businessman from the city. But you’re only worth pennies so they will go for the ski area after they take your life savings of a single wide an 95’ Astro van.



Only 259 posts maybe just start a new account and try to be a useful contributor? You've prematurely removed yourself from the Machiavellian calculation: Neither loved nor feared. Just start over, if we think it's you we won't say anything (unless you blow it).


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 12, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> IMO the cliff to the right of Long John is fair game as long as you don't land on someone. I ski right up there for a 5-7' drop routinely. 10 feet to a flat landing I try to avoid.
> 
> I also have no problem with advanced/expert skiers going around slower skiers as if they're slightly mobile GS gates. Just remember, these human beings aren't breakaway gates and they must actually be fully avoided with a little room to spare.
> 
> ...


It's awful when they put ski patrol out there on busier days. They just yell at everyone who is moving with any speed at all.

IMO, there are often times many people on Long John that are not ready for it - like you mentioned.
Everyone wants to go up to the summit, but they don't realize what it actually takes to get all the way down.

When it isn't busy, it really is a very fun trail to bomb down and typically has the best or some of the best snow on the mountain.


----------



## drjeff (Nov 12, 2019)

Long John, Little John, Deer Run, Ridge, Chute and Launch Pad now under the guns for expansion per the updated afternoon snow report


----------



## crazy (Nov 12, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> I also have no problem with advanced/expert skiers going around slower skiers as if they're slightly mobile GS gates. Just remember, these human beings aren't breakaway gates and they must actually be fully avoided with a little room to spare.
> 
> If you want to ski 0mph and have nobody skiing fast nearby there is always the bunny slope.



I completely agree.

I am happy to go slow on a bunny slope, and I'll even be a bit cautious on a blue slope unless it's early season, in which case it's game on. 

On any black slope or above, I'm going as fast as I possibly can, and I don't care who gets in my way. I love making fast turns around a Jerry like he is a human gate. And it's funny when people get surprised or flustered. They shouldn't be on the expert slopes to begin with. The goal isn't to disrespect Jerry, it's to make him feel unwelcome. 

I also hate it when people stop anywhere that isn't the side of the trail, except in cases where the side of the trail is where the best snow is, in which case people need to stop 20 feet from the side of the trail. When people are stopped in bad spots I love skiing really close to them or spraying them with snow to let them know what's up. People get the message. 

I also get a bit angry when people put the bar down on the chairlift.

The worst though is when people don't clear the landings of jumps or natural features on trails, or get in my way when I'm trying to pick up speed before hitting a jump. This is the only time when I will yell at people. It was rough last weekend at Killington, so many Jerrys getting in my way when I was trying to hit natural features on the sides of the slopes. 

I can't wait for Mount Snow to open. My skis are sharpened and waxed, so I'll be able to tear up the slopes and rage hard.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 12, 2019)

crazy said:


> I also get a bit angry when people put the bar down on the chairlift.



I get angry when people leave the bar up and then don't offer me a swig of their Goldschlager or a puff off their vape.

Just kidding, I ski sober so that in the event of skier collision, I have a plausible advantage in court. As long as hair/blood testing isn't involved, that is.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 12, 2019)

crazy said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> I am happy to go slow on a bunny slope, and I'll even be a bit cautious on a blue slope unless it's early season, in which case it's game on.
> 
> ...




 Unless this was an attempt at humor... Glad you ski at Mt Snow.


----------



## FBGM (Nov 12, 2019)

crazy said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> I am happy to go slow on a bunny slope, and I'll even be a bit cautious on a blue slope unless it's early season, in which case it's game on.
> 
> ...



Did you need to practice your typing while doing thid bad troll thing? That’s a lot of text...


----------



## Los (Nov 12, 2019)

crazy said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> I am happy to go slow on a bunny slope, and I'll even be a bit cautious on a blue slope unless it's early season, in which case it's game on.
> 
> ...



At first I thought this was the nastiest, ugliest, most mean-spirited and disgraceful post that I've ever read on this board. But then I got to the last line about raging hard at Mount Snow and realized - stupid me - that the post was intended as an obvious parody.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2019)

Take it easy, guys. Crazy is the girl on the right. She rages hard AF. Good skier too.


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 13, 2019)

Is Bluebird on Wind Hold or what?
Site says it's on hold, but doesn't specify wind. I have to assume wind, right?
Looks like tomorrow will be same, if not even more windy.


----------



## drjeff (Nov 13, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Is Bluebird on Wind Hold or what?
> Site says it's on hold, but doesn't specify wind. I have to assume wind, right?
> Looks like tomorrow will be same, if not even more windy.


Yup, it was on wind hold at the opening bell.

Winds backed off a bit and it started loading folks about 11.

My friends up on the hill today have been sending me a bunch of jealousy inducing pictures and texts, and all agree that the snow surface is quite nice and plentiful!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 13, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Yup, it was on wind hold at the opening bell.
> 
> Winds backed off a bit and it started loading folks about 11.
> 
> ...


I was/am debating heading up tomorrow, but if everything is going to be on wind hold until 11 it seems not worth it.


----------



## abc (Nov 13, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> I also have no problem with advanced/expert skiers going around slower skiers as if they're slightly mobile GS gates. Just remember, these human beings aren't breakaway gates and they must actually be fully avoided with a little room to spare.
> 
> If you want to ski 0mph and have nobody skiing fast nearby there is always the bunny slope.


It's more self-preservation that I give people a lot of room. 

I ski in glades often. So I do get the natural urge to ski around stopped skiers as though they're trees (won't break away like poles, won't even bend, hurts if "in contact", so yeah, a little extra room to spare etc.). 

The problem is, they may suddenly decide to move! Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're NOT SUPPOSED to... But if they do, I'm the one who had to figure out how to go around them in a hurry. 

Same issue with slow moving "slightly mobile slalom gates". They may decide to change direction of travel.

A collision is bad for BOTH parties.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2019)

Fortunately I'm very good at on-the-fly trigonometry, and skiing 74mph gives me an advantage in the equation.

If all else fails there is always this: 

I'm just kidding.. I do thread the needle in crowds a lot but not at dickhead speeds.


----------



## NYDB (Nov 13, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> I was/am debating heading up tomorrow, but if everything is going to be on wind hold until 11 it seems not worth it.



Looks even breezier Friday.  I already have tickets so I guess there is no turning back.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2019)

Mt Snow is running the regular summit quad I expect that will also be the case tomorrow. Plus North Face. Maybe they'll just start off with that instead of wasting an hour or two.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 13, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Mt Snow is running the regular summit quad I expect that will also be the case tomorrow. Plus North Face. Maybe they'll just start off with that instead of wasting an hour or two.


Conditions report said their plans are to run Bluebird and Challenger (North Face).
Their update this morning said Bluebird was on hold and they were running the Canyon Express, which goes up about 2/3 and can get you over to the North Face. Not the Grand Summit Express which is the other quad next to the Bluebird which goes to the summit.

If I had to guess, I'd bet on similar plans for tomorrow and maybe even worse for Friday as Friday looks like 30 mph AM and afternoon whereas today is 25/15 and tomorrow is 25/20.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2019)

^ Thanks for the correction. I'll be there tomorrow either way. Hopefully Challenger has a nice surface.


----------



## icecoast1 (Nov 13, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> ^ Thanks for the correction. I'll be there tomorrow either way. Hopefully Challenger has a nice surface.



You might want to bring the rock skis if you're going to try Challenger this time of year.  Freefall should be decent though


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2019)

Another good correction. I'm worse with Mount Snow trail names than almost anywhere in New England! Probably because so many similar trails with generic and/or similar names (Ledge and Lodge? c'mon)


----------



## crazy (Nov 13, 2019)

Los said:


> At first I thought this was the nastiest, ugliest, most mean-spirited and disgraceful post that I've ever read on this board. But then I got to the last line about raging hard at Mount Snow and realized - stupid me - that the post was intended as an obvious parody.



Yes, I was hoping that the parody would be obvious. I don't like it when people treat humans as race gates, or do any of the stuff I posted about. 



bdfreetuna said:


> Take it easy, guys. Crazy is the girl on the right. She rages hard AF. Good skier too.
> 
> View attachment 25566



Yup, exactly.


----------



## Los (Nov 13, 2019)

maybe we'll see you sunday! I'll be there with my three sons for our first day of the season. Please don't yell at us! haha


----------



## drjeff (Nov 15, 2019)

Pushing for expansion big time this afternoon when I arrived about 4PM. Was 36 on my car thermometer along route 100 infront of the resort. Fan guns running on roughly the top half of Nitro, Ridge down to where it hits the flat and the top half of snowdance. More fans have been lit up further down the mountain as the evening has gone on. Still 32 at my place across the street at 8PM, radar shows the front that will drop the temps to prime Snowmaking range is about an hour away.

Word from the shop guys as I was talking with this evening while getting my new boots and footbeds molded and fit is that is was pretty good on the hill today!

Kicking off my 41st ski season tomorrow morning! 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## sugarbushskier (Nov 16, 2019)

Was up there yesterday for my first day out and can attest to the fact that it was indeed quite nice.  Winds stayed calm and sun was out most of the day.

No crowds, (today will be different), and solid base depth on the open trails.  ROTD was Chute on the North Face as they left it "whaled up" and the snow was soft and edge able top to bottom.  It was a full length rollercoaster/hero snow and bumps.  Had to take it three or four times it was so good.

Skied about 5 hours and 23+k vertical. So many people I spoke with were there due to the Epic Pass (as was I). Not a bad first day. 

 Enjoy!!


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 16, 2019)

How are the crowds today? Debating making the drive up tomorrow to get some turns in.

Seems like a somewhat steady flow to bluebird looking at the webcams but looks like it might not be too busy? Can anyone confirm? Thanks!


----------



## granite (Nov 16, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Was up there yesterday for my first day out and can attest to the fact that it was indeed quite nice.  Winds stayed calm and sun was out most of the day.
> 
> No crowds, (today will be different), and solid base depth on the open trails.  ROTD was Chute on the North Face as they left it "whaled up" and the snow was soft and edge able top to bottom.  It was a full length rollercoaster/hero snow and bumps.  Had to take it three or four times it was so good.
> 
> ...



Agreed, I was there too.  I think we were the only ones skiing Chute.  I was impressed with the amount of snow they laid down on all the open runs-top to bottom.


----------



## Jcb890 (Nov 16, 2019)

Uh oh! 
Snow Report @ 11:30 says North Face on hold.
I just took a look at the Somerset cam and it looks like they're rapelling people down off the lift??


----------



## FBGM (Nov 16, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Uh oh!
> Snow Report @ 11:30 says North Face on hold.
> I just took a look at the Somerset cam and it looks like they're rapelling people down off the lift??



Lol. Vail shaking their head at the crap they bought out.


----------



## fullsend22 (Nov 16, 2019)

North Face is closed because lift #18 Challenger had to be evacuated. I was stuck on there for over an hour.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 16, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Lol. Vail shaking their head at the crap they bought out.



Figured this would please you.


----------



## slatham (Nov 16, 2019)

fullsend22 said:


> North Face is closed because lift #18 Challenger had to be evacuated. I was stuck on there for over an hour.



Sorry to hear this. Whatever your view of Vail, never want fellow skiers stuck on a lift.


----------



## Razor (Nov 16, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Lol. Vail shaking their head at the crap they bought out.




We were there Friday, and were stuck at the bottom when the Challenger lift was stopped for about 20 minutes.  It ran ok after that.  Guess we lucked out.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 16, 2019)

Snow report indicates North Face open tomorrow. Wonder if they run the other lift or if they fixed Challenger.

Edit: Snow Report says Challenger will run on NF. Oh boy, lol.


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## FBGM (Nov 16, 2019)

There is absolutely no reason or excuse for a lift to break and be evacuated opening weekend. What did your lift mechanics do all summer? I mean, the mount snow ones and to high and to incompetent to fix anything. I’m sure Vail is embarrassed at this. And I’m sure heads will roll and better personnel will come in to fix their ongoing cluster fuck of lift mistakes that just seem to get worse and worse.


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 16, 2019)

Razor said:


> We were there Friday, and were stuck at the bottom when the Challenger lift was stopped for about 20 minutes.  It ran ok after that.  Guess we lucked out.



I was at the bottom of the lift as well, but must have lucked out a bit.  I saw the lift had stopped as I was halfway down, but probably only had about a 5-10 minute wait at the bottom before it started.  Otherwise, it seemed to run fine all day.

I was contemplating what a Plan B would be if it was down, probably get the Outpost up and running, but not sure how long that would've taken......


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## ss20 (Nov 16, 2019)

That Challenger lift has been quite unreliable the past 5-8 years I feel.  I've had a number on long stops and watched frustrated lifties climb up into/out of the top terminal resetting equipment.  

Of the top of my head I want to say it's either a 1982 or 1984 Yan.  It's a workhorse alright; it runs everyday November-April unless wind puts it on hold and makes Outopost the go-to.  I'd like to see a high-speed quad on that side of the hill.


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## andrec10 (Nov 16, 2019)

ss20 said:


> That Challenger lift has been quite unreliable the past 5-8 years I feel.  I've had a number on long stops and watched frustrated lifties climb up into/out of the top terminal resetting equipment.
> 
> Of the top of my head I want to say it's either a 1982 or 1984 Yan.  It's a workhorse alright; it runs everyday November-April unless wind puts it on hold and makes Outopost the go-to.  I'd like to see a high-speed quad on that side of the hill.



Its a Yan. Time to be replaced....


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## ss20 (Nov 16, 2019)

andrec10 said:


> Its a Yan. Time to be replaced....



I've always heard the fixed grips are pretty reliable.  But yeah, a lift from 1982 should be addressed in a mountain's 5-10 year plan.


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## cdskier (Nov 17, 2019)

FBGM said:


> There is absolutely no reason or excuse for a lift to break and be evacuated opening weekend. What did your lift mechanics do all summer? I mean, the mount snow ones and to high and to incompetent to fix anything. I’m sure Vail is embarrassed at this. And I’m sure heads will roll and better personnel will come in to fix their ongoing cluster fuck of lift mistakes that just seem to get worse and worse.



Yea...I mean, mechanical things always go exactly as planned. Shit happens... I'm no Vail fanboy either. I don't ski at any of the Vail (or legacy Peaks resorts) and I still think your comments are asinine.


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## Bostonian (Nov 17, 2019)

Was there yesterday and lucked out myself.  The two times I was on challenger, the lift road fine.


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## spiderpig (Nov 17, 2019)

fullsend22 said:


> North Face is closed because lift #18 Challenger had to be evacuated. I was stuck on there for over an hour.



Wonder if it was a problem with stanchion 5. Lift was stopped for over five minutes on Friday then had employees climb up watching the chairs go over the wheels there.


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## Edd (Nov 17, 2019)

FBGM said:


> There is absolutely no reason or excuse for a lift to break and be evacuated opening weekend. What did your lift mechanics do all summer? I mean, the mount snow ones and to high and to incompetent to fix anything. I’m sure Vail is embarrassed at this. And I’m sure heads will roll and better personnel will come in to fix their ongoing cluster fuck of lift mistakes that just seem to get worse and worse.



Things break down. It’s often unexpected. I doubt Vail is “embarrassed”. They’ve seen lifts break down before.


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## jg17 (Nov 17, 2019)

Snow report shows Outpost open, Challenger on hold today.

Hopefully Vail sees how critical this lift is and puts some money aside for replacement. I don't see it happening in 2020 (unless Vail decides to shell out more than the $15m they already committed to ex-Peak Resorts for next two years), but hopefully by the 2022 offseason or so. Challenger is likely the oldest "key" lift in the former Peak portfolio (aside from the Midwest resorts that run some old Halls that are indestructible, but also not moneymakers even close to Snow) and would be a PR mess if it were to have multiple more high profile incidents. 

I hear there's a pair of lightly used Skytracs close by up for grabs :grin:


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## jaytrem (Nov 17, 2019)

Lift is open again.  Guy was on the tower agaon when we rode by? Another question is why did Canyon run during the week, but not the weekend?


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 17, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Lift is open again.  Guy was on the tower agaon when we rode by? Another question is why did Canyon run during the week, but not the weekend?



I don't know about Friday but on Thursday it was not running, and on Wednesday it was only running because Bluebird was on wind hold.

Old lifts break down, at least it didn't break in a dangerous way and 1 hour evac could be worse. Luckily they have the Outpost backup lift.


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## jaytrem (Nov 17, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> I don't know about Friday but on Thursday it was not running, and on Wednesday it was only running because Bluebird was on wind hold.
> 
> Old lifts break down, at least it didn't break in a dangerous way and 1 hour evac could be worse. Luckily they have the Outpost backup lift.



Thats good, somebody told me it ran all 3 days.  Was hoping its not broken.  Heading back to the NF now, wish me luck!


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## jaytrem (Nov 17, 2019)

Ahh, bad luck over there, tore my tele binding half off.  Back out on regular though.


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2019)

I sure hope that once more Epic properties open for the season that the Eastern Epic folks disperse a bit. 

The outer parking lot being 1/2 to 2/3rds full in mid November is crazy stuff.

Also, it's been years since I've had to say "the bubble goes up by itself" so much in a weekend!

Snow quantity and quality were very good. Just need a little cooperation from mother nature and the trail count (and acreage) is going to get larger

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## Newpylong (Nov 17, 2019)

jg17 said:


> Snow report shows Outpost open, Challenger on hold today.
> 
> Hopefully Vail sees how critical this lift is and puts some money aside for replacement. I don't see it happening in 2020 (unless Vail decides to shell out more than the $15m they already committed to ex-Peak Resorts for next two years), but hopefully by the 2022 offseason or so. Challenger is likely the oldest "key" lift in the former Peak portfolio (aside from the Midwest resorts that run some old Halls that are indestructible, but also not moneymakers even close to Snow) and would be a PR mess if it were to have multiple more high profile incidents.
> 
> I hear there's a pair of lightly used Skytracs close by up for grabs :grin:



The Skytracs do not fit the lift profile needed and they would be oddballs, it's not going to happen.

Challenger isn't really that critical there's another right next to it. Any lift may need to be evaced.


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## machski (Nov 18, 2019)

ss20 said:


> That Challenger lift has been quite unreliable the past 5-8 years I feel.  I've had a number on long stops and watched frustrated lifties climb up into/out of the top terminal resetting equipment.
> 
> Of the top of my head I want to say it's either a 1982 or 1984 Yan.  It's a workhorse alright; it runs everyday November-April unless wind puts it on hold and makes Outopost the go-to.  I'd like to see a high-speed quad on that side of the hill.


A HQS on the North Face side??!!!  The lifts aren't even 4000' long, no way in hell they ever put a detach there.  You'll get a FGQ with a loading carpet to max the speed and like it!!  Detach's cost 2.5x what a FG lift costs in maintenance.  If Sunbrook is being upgraded to a detach at some point (and that makes sense with the mix of terrain it serves plus the sun aspect), they will already be adding another maint cost to the area.  NF totally does not need that headache.

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## tumbler (Nov 18, 2019)

Edd said:


> Things break down. It’s often unexpected. I doubt Vail is “embarrassed”. They’ve seen lifts break down before.



Lots of bad press on the local Boston news this weekend though.  Interview with little girl that was evac'd, lots of footage.  Surprised how much coverage but must have been slow weekend.


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## Glenn (Nov 18, 2019)

tumbler said:


> Lots of bad press on the local Boston news this weekend though.  Interview with little girl that was evac'd, lots of footage.  Surprised how much coverage but must have been slow weekend.



Agreed. I saw it in a few of my news feeds. Typically, these aren't that big of a deal when it comes to local news.


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## jaywbigred (Nov 18, 2019)

To quote Jay-Z himself, "allow me to reintroduce myself, my name is...." Jaywbigred...

Wow, it has been a bunch of years. Since we bought our condo at Mount Snow in 2009, and especially since Mount Snow started offering a Season Passholder Forum (I think 2013 or so) I haven't really used AlpineZone much. But it seems like Mount Snow closed down the Passholder forum after the Vail purchase, and I feel a void in my life! I was hearing bits and pieces of info on the lift shutdown this weekend, and a lightbulb went off "I bet folks are posting on AlpineZone on this!"

Glad to see Dr. Jeff and Glenn still active in here! Cheers everyone!


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## Jcb890 (Nov 18, 2019)

There were a lot of issues yesterday with the Bluebird as well.
Any ideas what was going on?
It wasn't very windy and in the sun it wasn't very cold either, so it wasn't a big deal sitting there stuck for what seemed like 20 mins once, but still...


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## FBGM (Nov 18, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> There were a lot of issues yesterday with the Bluebird as well.
> Any ideas what was going on?
> It wasn't very windy and in the sun it wasn't very cold either, so it wasn't a big deal sitting there stuck for what seemed like 20 mins once, but still...



I know you all hate me and think I know nothing but that lift from day one has been an issue due to the lift maintenance staff just not knowing it. In general that entire lift maintenance crew is very sub par and it’s scary. That new 6 pack is so next level different then the rest of the ancient garbage. It comes down to more training needed. Better wages. Vail will address this.


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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> There were a lot of issues yesterday with the Bluebird as well.
> Any ideas what was going on?
> It wasn't very windy and in the sun it wasn't very cold either, so it wasn't a big deal sitting there stuck for what seemed like 20 mins once, but still...


Apparently an issue with a safety sensor on one of the towers giving a bunch of false positives which then triggers the lift safety systems to do an automatic shutdown until a lift ops crew member checks the tower.

Lots of safety redundancy systems built into that lift from base to summit. Creates nuisance issues from time to time, which in the current reactionary era we live in, can make a relatively minor thing seem to some like a major, life altering event...

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## sugarbushskier (Nov 19, 2019)

Heading up tomorrow. What are the chances they open up some additional terrain such as Ridge, Snowdance and something off Nitro where they've been blowing snow?  Was there last week for first day and while it was very good, would like a couple more options.


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## drjeff (Nov 19, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Heading up tomorrow. What are the chances they open up some additional terrain such as Ridge, Snowdance and something off Nitro where they've been blowing snow?  Was there last week for first day and while it was very good, would like a couple more options.



Going to be close.  When I left on Sunday afternoon (and the guns on those trails had or either were in the process of being shutdown due to temps), yup, they had some sizable whales on those trails.  Not quite sure though, after they push them out, if it will be enough to get Ridge and Snowdance open. Best chance would be Nitro as the fan gun spacing on that trail is tighter than on Ridge and Snowdance, and on Ridge in particular, the pitch tends to need a bit of extra snowmaking time to get the rocks from when they buried a main snowmaking feeder line on it a few seasons ago.

The natural today will help a bit. I remember thinking to myself after seeing things on Sunday afternoon that it looked like they needed about another 24 hours of snowmaking to be able to push the whales out and have enough coverage to get everything connected and open.


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## sugarbushskier (Nov 19, 2019)

That's what I thought, but figured I'd ask someone more familiar w the area.  

My original plan was for Thursday as it looks like the best day of the week and I figured it would give them another day/night to work their magic, but unfortunately my ski buddy can only head up tomorrow so I changed my plans.

In any event, it's November so no complaints if I have to ski the same trails as last week for another day.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 19, 2019)

picked up a ticket for Thursday. Looks like the weather pick of the week. Heavy fat-flaked snow on the webcams this morning. Seems to have turned to a mix now or maybe just blowing off altogether. Looks like they picked up a few inches of dense snow up top.

Hope for a couple surprise trail openings by Thursday but I imagine the place will be pretty empty and I won't complain either way


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## Glenn (Nov 19, 2019)

jaywbigred said:


> To quote Jay-Z himself, "allow me to reintroduce myself, my name is...." Jaywbigred...
> 
> Wow, it has been a bunch of years. Since we bought our condo at Mount Snow in 2009, and especially since Mount Snow started offering a Season Passholder Forum (I think 2013 or so) I haven't really used AlpineZone much. But it seems like Mount Snow closed down the Passholder forum after the Vail purchase, and I feel a void in my life! I was hearing bits and pieces of info on the lift shutdown this weekend, and a lightbulb went off "I bet folks are posting on AlpineZone on this!"
> 
> Glad to see Dr. Jeff and Glenn still active in here! Cheers everyone!



Welcome back! Good to see you here again!


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## chuckstah (Nov 19, 2019)

I'm here today. Patrol said Ridge/expansion for the weekend. Did a quick run down each open trail. All good, but Chute is the place to be. Immature bumps getting carved into soft whales with a 2-3 inch sugar coating. No reason to leave the north face til it's time to hit the car. Chute

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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 19, 2019)

that looks tasty


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## ss20 (Nov 19, 2019)

FBGM said:


> I know you all hate me and think I know nothing but that lift from day one has been an issue due to the lift maintenance staff just not knowing it. In general that entire lift maintenance crew is very sub par and it’s scary. That new 6 pack is so next level different then the rest of the ancient garbage. It comes down to more training needed. Better wages. Vail will address this.



Actually I think you're very qualified on this matter.  You probably learned some ins-and-outs regarding the lift maintenance staff while you were bumping chairs at Mount Snow.  As each chair passed the hatred for Peaks within you grew and grew.  You become determined to one day be free and share your infinite knowledge of the terribleness of Peaks on an online ski forum.  Now your dreams have been answered by Vail, as the Reign of Peaks Terror slowly fades away into our memories, never to be repeated again.


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## jaywbigred (Nov 20, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Actually I think you're very qualified on this matter.  You probably learned some ins-and-outs regarding the lift maintenance staff while you were bumping chairs at Mount Snow.  As each chair passed the hatred for Peaks within you grew and grew.  You become determined to one day be free and share your infinite knowledge of the terribleness of Peaks on an online ski forum.  Now your dreams have been answered by Vail, as the Reign of Peaks Terror slowly fades away into our memories, never to be repeated again.


 Poetic! Love it.


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## urungus (Nov 20, 2019)

A friend sent me advance scouting report on N.E. Time / Snowdance :


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## urungus (Nov 20, 2019)

Also a couple shots from Chute.  Whales are starting to get a little icy:


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## Edd (Nov 23, 2019)

Skied Chute on Thursday, which was a lovely day. It was 80% scratch by that time. 


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 23, 2019)

You were there Thursday too Edd? Might have had a chat with you on the chair and not even knew it, pretty few people there.

I skied from about 9:30 - 1:30... Chute was the worst run, the whales were a disaster, scratchy and sloppy

Everything else skied really well. Canyon was a lot nicer than the week before.


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## Edd (Nov 23, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> You were there Thursday too Edd? Might have had a chat with you on the chair and not even knew it, pretty few people there.
> 
> I skied from about 9:30 - 1:30... Chute was the worst run, the whales were a disaster, scratchy and sloppy
> 
> Everything else skied really well. Canyon was a lot nicer than the week before.



Ah, shit, I almost posted in the meetup thread, too. That would’ve been cool because I skied alone. Met a few nice locals in the bar, though.


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## gorgonzola (Nov 25, 2019)

Headed there in a few weeks while my wife is doing a PSIA event. One of the days I'm there has $12 lift tickets for Founders Day - is this typically a shit show?


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2019)

gorgonzola said:


> Headed there in a few weeks while my wife is doing a PSIA event. One of the days I'm there has $12 lift tickets for Founders Day - is this typically a shit show?



Yup. If the weather is good, it's INSANE. If the weather is bad it's "only" CRAZY.

Even with the capped number of advance sale only $12 tickets, the parking lots and lift lines and base facilities are packed all day


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## Jcb890 (Nov 25, 2019)

Rode with my brother yesterday from 9-11:45 or so when they shut down Bluebird due to icing up top I guess.
The snow was pretty good... but the weather was definitely not! So much for that 'wintery mix'. It was all rain and lots of it. My layers held up pretty well though. The bubble certainly helped for the lift rides up. We thought about heading over to the North Face, but decided not to sit out in the rain on the way up - figured that would soak us through and end the day.

Long John had the best snow as always, but Canyon was really good also. Good snow too.
Visibility was really flat in some spots. Most of Snowdance had horrible visibility.


Anyone heading up tomorrow (Tuesday)? I am thinking of getting there early and getting a few runs in before heading home for a meeting at 3.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 25, 2019)

^
Was gonna go tomorrow but with the rain and no added terrain since last Thurs, I'm going to take a little Thanksgiving break. NEXT Monday is looking good on early forecasts.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 25, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> ^
> Was gonna go tomorrow but with the rain and no added terrain since last Thurs, I'm going to take a little Thanksgiving break. NEXT Monday is looking good on early forecasts.


I don't think the rain did much damage to be honest. It didn't look like it at least. It was cold enough that probably not much loss overall with some ice added. Probably got it groomed out overnight. Tomorrow also looking to hit 40's/mid-40's, so snowpack might soften enough to be fun.

That was my justification at least...


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## gorgonzola (Nov 25, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Yup. If the weather is good, it's INSANE. If the weather is bad it's "only" CRAZY.
> 
> Even with the capped number of advance sale only $12 tickets, the parking lots and lift lines and base facilities are packed all day



Thanks, that's what I figured. Oh well, sounds like a few runs at opening then bail if it gets too crowded


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## icecoast1 (Nov 25, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> I don't think the rain did much damage to be honest. It didn't look like it at least. It was cold enough that probably not much loss overall with some ice added. Probably got it groomed out overnight. Tomorrow also looking to hit 40's/mid-40's, so snowpack might soften enough to be fun.
> 
> That was my justification at least...



Inch of rain coming Wednesday.  Gotta enjoy the decent snow conditions while they last


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## Jcb890 (Nov 26, 2019)

Well, I'm definitely glad I didn't bail on my plan to head up today!

Canyon was buttery corduroy to start the morning off, pretty much hero snow. So good. I ran that back 3x in a row right away.
Rode from 9-12:30ish and now I'm back at home for a few meetings to end the day.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 26, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Rode from 9-12:30ish and now I'm back at home for a few meetings to end the day.



Exactly how I did my 1st 2 days out at Mount Snow, didn't even have to take a day off from work. Glad you got the sweet conditions!


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## mattskis (Nov 26, 2019)

Do we think these guys will get Canyon Quad open this weekend? Skiing with my S/o who is a beginner and was hoping for some snowdance access without needing to ski that awesome cascade trail that gets skied off by 930 am.


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## icecoast1 (Nov 26, 2019)

mattfrancis11 said:


> Do we think these guys will get Canyon Quad open this weekend? Skiing with my S/o who is a beginner and was hoping for some snowdance access without needing to ski that awesome cascade trail that gets skied off by 930 am.




Probably, being a holiday weekend.


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2019)

mattfrancis11 said:


> Do we think these guys will get Canyon Quad open this weekend? Skiing with my S/o who is a beginner and was hoping for some snowdance access without needing to ski that awesome cascade trail that gets skied off by 930 am.



They _could_ but you'd probably not want them to do that.  With only Canyon and Snowdance open below it that's a lot of traffic headed onto those trails plus the Cascade traffic from the Bluebird.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 26, 2019)

OH! And I forgot to mention I saw a *BALD EAGLE* on the drive up today. That alone made it worth the trip.
MERIKA!


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## chuckstah (Nov 26, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Well, I'm definitely glad I didn't bail on my plan to head up today!
> 
> Canyon was buttery corduroy to start the morning off, pretty much hero snow. So good. I ran that back 3x in a row right away.
> Rode from 9-12:30ish and now I'm back at home for a few meetings to end the day.


I made it out today as well from about 10-2. Great soft snow most everywhere. Bit of scratch on the top of Freefall and Cascade per usual, but great day, and plenty of routes open with 3-4 choices from each  3 pods. Felt like late March. 

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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2019)

mattfrancis11 said:


> Do we think these guys will get Canyon Quad open this weekend? Skiing with my S/o who is a beginner and was hoping for some snowdance access without needing to ski that awesome cascade trail that gets skied off by 930 am.


Typically for Thanksgiving Weekend, if they have the coverage (which they should easily) and the crowds are there (likely), Canyon Quad will spin, especially with the N.E. Time to Snowdance route available for lower level skiers

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## ss20 (Nov 28, 2019)

Got to Mount Snow for my second day of the season yesterday.  The place was the emptiest I've seen in quite a while.  The weather was a cloudy 40 degrees after a quick freeze the previous night.  It made for really good carving conditions- firm base with a thin layer of edgable loose stuff on top.  My favorites were Nitro (no features) and Canyon.  Everything was in good shape but it's not fair to call Snowdance a beginner trail right now.  It's at roughly 1/3rd width, maybe 4 cat tracks wide.  

Snowmaking whales on Lodge.  Guns set-up on Fallen Timbers.  Looking at Monday for ski day #3...could be a Southern Vermont Special!


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## slatham (Nov 28, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> OH! And I forgot to mention I saw a *BALD EAGLE* on the drive up today. That alone made it worth the trip.
> MERIKA!



I saw one yesterday on drive up. RT 22 in NY just North of art 2. Sitting on a sand bar in middle of creek.


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## Pez (Nov 28, 2019)

Saw one the other day flying over the river near my house.  Never seen one around there which is unusual since I live fairly close to the Quabbin.  


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## drjeff (Nov 29, 2019)

Solid recovery effort on the hill today. Basically everything except Chute has either already been or is being resurfaced currently. A few sloppy air/water HKD's here and there, but overall a decent product.

Expansion mode is underway as well.  

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## urungus (Dec 1, 2019)

Legendary whales on Plummet today


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## FBGM (Dec 1, 2019)

urungus said:


> Legendary whales on Plummet today
> 
> View attachment 25703



Guess you’ve never seen real snowmaking and real
Production at a real mountain.


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Guess you’ve never seen real snowmaking and real
> Production at a real mountain.


Not a bad effort at all for not even a 24hr run.

Same thing on Lodge. Made some piles with the HKD's in less than 24hrs. And in the case of a section of Lodge in just over 15 hours from when the pulled the bubbles off the haul rope yesterday afternoon about 4, and then had them shutdown about 8AM.

Just wondering if you have actually seen the system in the last 2 seasons since the upgrade, or if you are just going on your past level of perception and feelings about the now former ownership? 

As someone who's been on the trails of Mount Snow the last 3 weekends and have seen the snowmaking effort and product firsthand, I have been quite happy with what has been put on the hill this season thus far.

About the only thing I have seen firsthand (and I don't base this critique on what may or may not be on the snowreport or a trip report I read from someone else) that I would question is that this morning, once they shutdown on the main and Northface, they didn't fire up on new terrain ahead of the storm to work on putting some base down. 

The system is designed for maximum efficiency, and thus far they have tended to try and exploit that by running it often in more ideal conditions than marginal conditions when it comes to expansion after the initial opening push and mid season base building efforts. If you want to rant about using production data to influence when to turn the system on or not based on maximizing the number of acre feet produced while minimizing operating costs, then I would agree with you to some extent

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## Newpylong (Dec 2, 2019)

Being sour with management is one thing, it is hard to discredit the amount of water that Mount Snow can convert per acre. I should actually say impossible, not hard.

Jeff I'm sure they're giving the crews a day off. Most mountains fired up Thanksgiving all the way into Sunday so its been a good run. When storms come, often comes the humidity. Not worth the hassle to run in most of the time. Tomorrow afternoon good WB returns.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 2, 2019)

Anyone on mountain today? Wondering what ropes might be dropping.


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## urungus (Dec 2, 2019)

jaywbigred said:


> Anyone on mountain today? Wondering what ropes might be dropping.



According to the trail report https://www.mountsnow.com/ski-ride/snow-report , they have opened Drifter, Lower Exhibition, Roller Coaster, Uncles, and on the North Face Boulder Pile, Challenger, Jaws, Olympic, PDF

Plummet and Lodge opened yesterday.


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## Zand (Dec 2, 2019)

Bought my ticket for tomorrow. I'll try to leave some snow on the trails for you guys.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 2, 2019)

Zand said:


> Bought my ticket for tomorrow. I'll try to leave some snow on the trails for you guys.



Whatever there is of my leftovers from today you mean. Rope drop fest on the North Face and elsewhere. Tomorrow should be a repeat.


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## taul (Dec 2, 2019)

They were embarrassingly understaffed/unprepared for today. Lots not plowed, no semblance of lifeline management. EuroFunnel and no singles lines so chairs were going up with twos and threes. Fantastic day, but it was a running joke on every chair what a shitshow today was.


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## Zand (Dec 2, 2019)

If they get another foot tonight should be a full refresh. Whats the best trail to hit at opening untouched, Jaws?


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## taul (Dec 2, 2019)

Jaws was sweet today


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 2, 2019)

taul said:


> They were embarrassingly understaffed/unprepared for today. Lots not plowed, no semblance of lifeline management. EuroFunnel and no singles lines so chairs were going up with twos and threes. Fantastic day, but it was a running joke on every chair what a shitshow today was.



Yeah but TBH if you mostly stuck to North Face it was an epic powder day. Fresh lines on newly opened tree skiing and the softest moguls ever. Winds were pretty bad I didn't expect Bluebird to run at all. I did expect Summit Express to run but after taking a couple runs down Ridge/Lodge(or anything up front) I could see why.

Providing the solution of a lift up to access North Face, and use North Face lifts to the summit was a pretty good backup plan considering how screwed we could have been.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Dec 2, 2019)

Zand said:


> If they get another foot tonight should be a full refresh. Whats the best trail to hit at opening untouched, Jaws?



The woods to the left of Olympic were sick today, should be even better tomorrow. Me + wife were in the first group of people heading down Olympic after that rope dropped.

Some people were saying Plummet was great -- I did it once and thought it was the worst run. Not a fan of whales. Ducked into the woods halfway thru.

A few people also obviously straight-lined Ripcord, which if you stick to the sides tomorrow might be a decent idea. Won't be open though.

Challenger and Uncles were getting bumped up with some quality mogul formation, Uncles was fun if you like mogul-jumps


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## ss20 (Dec 2, 2019)

What an amazing day.  19" and crazy winds so Mount Snow gets a pass in my book for lift op difficulties (other than not having the lift corrals set up).  The atmosphere today was dripping.  Ear-to-ear smiles all day.  There was a period for an hour or so when Challenger had a 10-15 minute wait.  People passed the time by starting a "Vail sucks" chant and heckling anyone who had a mis-load.

My favorites were Olympic and Jaws (3x laps on both), with honorable ROTD's being Challenger and Uncle's.  I dabbled in the trees next to Freefall and Uncles but not Oylimpic woods.  Fun, just ski with care.  At the end of the day I skied skiers right of Snowdance...very fun with the waterbar kickers.  It's just crazy how good the naturals were today.  Snow was dense enough that it stayed put and didn't get too scraped off.  December 2?  You'd never of guessed!  There was a legitimate 2ft when I left.  No way they report less than that tomorrow.


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## ss20 (Dec 2, 2019)

jaywbigred said:


> Anyone on mountain today? Wondering what ropes might be dropping.



Everything (save for Ripcord) is skiable regardless of the rope.  Interestingly enough even the exposed water streams are well-covered, surprisingly.  

Hell I did Ledges and Jaws- the rockiest trails on the hill (save for Ripcord) and didn't hit anything.  In fact I went right over the "Ledge" on Ledge, no scrape.


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 2, 2019)

These reports are really making me regret not playing workhookey. Sounds like a killer day out there!


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## Zand (Dec 2, 2019)

Pumped as hell for tomorrow. Hope its dumping there right now to refill the trails but even if it doesn't it will still be epic.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 2, 2019)

Zand said:


> Pumped as hell for tomorrow. Hope its dumping there right now to refill the trails but even if it doesn't it will still be epic.



Between the refills all day today + anything falling after close + the wind you're going to be skiing fresh I'm sure.

The trail under Bluebird whatever it's called might be windblown but everything else cream and butter


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## ss20 (Dec 2, 2019)

Zand said:


> Pumped as hell for tomorrow. Hope its dumping there right now to refill the trails but even if it doesn't it will still be epic.



Bring your patience.  Partly cloudy and 30 degrees tomorrow.  It's going to be great but I'll bet my left thumb it'll be quite crowded.  

I can't ski again til Friday.  Thinking Jiminy Peak of Berkshire East if they're open.  Looking at the radar they will both probably end up doing as well as or better than Mount Snow.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 2, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Thinking Jiminy Peak of Berkshire East if they're open. Looking at the radar they will both probably end up doing as well as or better than Mount Snow.



I'm waiting for B-East to report which trails they opened. I'm not seeing much yet, but they might want to groom thing over and push some snow around, get hoses out of the way, etc. If it looks like PackedPowder with some diamonds I'll be there Friday.

Jiminy looks good too, that's plan B but not as cheap and more people to deal with. I guess Magic will have to wait.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 3, 2019)

Awesome reports folks, much appreciated! I'm interested to hear how it is today and how many additional ropes drop.

They reported 23 inches this morning, has me wondering how much more snow they need to get the bulk of the ropes dropped. Is the issue coverage at this point, or lack of staff to run lifts and patrol all the terrain? I feel like Dr. Jeff would know that answer...


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 3, 2019)

Ropes don’t matter. Read the terrain. Don’t be a dope. Ski the mountain.


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## MommaBear (Dec 3, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Providing the solution of a lift up to access North Face, and use North Face lifts to the summit was a pretty good backup plan considering how screwed we could have been.



But damn that last run home to Carinthia, where I was parked, almost killed me...lol! Took a run down Uncles toward end of day after spending most of it on NF and didn't leave quite enough in the tank to go back over.  Was grateful to see Season Pass open (so I didn't have to go Canyon, back to NF to get up and over).  But had to tuck and go most of it that run out to get back to the base.  My legs were not happy.


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2019)

jaywbigred said:


> Awesome reports folks, much appreciated! I'm interested to hear how it is today and how many additional ropes drop.
> 
> They reported 23 inches this morning, has me wondering how much more snow they need to get the bulk of the ropes dropped. Is the issue coverage at this point, or lack of staff to run lifts and patrol all the terrain? I feel like Dr. Jeff would know that answer...



Depending on what the wind did/does, I would suspect that short of say Ripcord, they've probably got enough natural to open everything.

I do see from their snow report that they've gone guns on on a few trails today, some of those trails that likely will be needed/requested by the Alpine Comp program which starts this weekend. So there may be a few trails where the ropes are up today not because of lack of snow, but because they've got snowmaking equipment, and in particular non tower mounted equipment, deployed across those trails (Ego Alley, Charlie's Chase, Fallen Timbers)

Ripcord could present an interesting challenge for the snowmakers with all of this natural on it, as typically, when they're making snow on it, they make a really wet base layer to try and essentially "bond" that base layer to the rocks underneath on the pitch, and then back the water content in the guns down during roughly the 2nd half of the run time to get a surface that doesn't ski/ride like 6-12" of glorified elmer's glue when they drop the rope on it before it all dries out. 

With all of this natural snow, getting that adhesion between the rocks and the base snow have some different logistical issues to solve compared to past years.

I would say that if Sunbrook isn't open this coming weekend, it's way more likely because of lack of staff than lack of snow. Given that it's now December, the annual arrival of the foreign workers should be starting, and lets hope that their training will go quickly and smoothly and that the ability of spin as many lifts as possible starts very soon!


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 3, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Ripcord could present an interesting challenge for the snowmakers with all of this natural on it, as typically, when they're making snow on it, they make a really wet base layer to try and essentially "bond" that base layer to the rocks underneath on the pitch, and then back the water content in the guns down during roughly the 2nd half of the run time to get a surface that doesn't ski/ride like 6-12" of glorified elmer's glue when they drop the rope on it before it all dries out.



Looking up Ripcord yesterday it did appear to have a "glue" base already established under the powder. By this, I mean the middle of the trail was a more yellow color (looked almost icy), where the natural snow was only partially bonding to the trail. The sides of the trails were all powder and got poached a bit.

I'm not sure if snowmaking occurred on Ripcord at all but it did appear to have a base layer instead of just rock under snow.


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2019)

bdfreetuna said:


> Looking up Ripcord yesterday it did appear to have a "glue" base already established under the powder. By this, I mean the middle of the trail was a more yellow color (looked almost icy), where the natural snow was only partially bonding to the trail. The sides of the trails were all powder and got poached a bit.
> 
> I'm not sure if snowmaking occurred on Ripcord at all but it did appear to have a base layer instead of just rock under snow.



That yellow color you saw is more than likely just natural ground water flowing and then freezing on the rock face.  If you've ever seen the headwall on Ripcord in the non snow months, it has way more resemblance to a rocky cliff with some random underbrush growing out of some of the cracks in the rock than dirt/stones/grass that we typically associate with the appearance of a ski trail without snow on it.

I do not believe that at any point thus far this season they have turned the HKD towers on Ripcord on and made snow yet.  Plus, I can only imagine on a dark, sketchy night what a gun check run on that trail is like for the snowmaking crew when they're making snow on it...


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## kingslug (Dec 3, 2019)

I imagine this weekend will be a bit crowded....


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2019)

kingslug said:


> I imagine this weekend will be a bit crowded....



Yup.  Add in that some of the seasonal programs start this weekend, as well as that at least for now, lifts won't spin until 9 this weekend (the kick back to 8AM 1st chair on the weekends is scheduled to start the following Saturday, the 14th, and the line for 1st chair, especially in the main base area, is likely going to do a good job at filling up a decent percentage of the queue lanes at the opening bell.

Hopefully if they have the staff to spin say greater than 50% of their lifts, with the added acreage that will be in play, the downhill experience shouldn't be too bad


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## Zand (Dec 3, 2019)

Excellent morning. Most of yesterday's 19" settled in and dried out. Last night's snow was all Utah blower so not the big bottomless powder runs I was hoping for but instead the natural trails are now covered in a perfect base and beautifully soft on top.

There are a few areas of untracked still on South Bowl, Exhibition, and that general area but it's all wind packed. Some sweer lines still available in the woods. Bluebird has a decent line, but North Face is empty.


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## kingslug (Dec 3, 2019)

Weekend decisions...decisions...Hunter Saturday might be a mess..but will it be a bigger mess than Mt Snow..hmmm


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## tnt1234 (Dec 3, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Weekend decisions...decisions...Hunter Saturday might be a mess..but will it be a bigger mess than Mt Snow..hmmm



Mt. Snow is out of range for me.  I'm leaning more and more toward Hunter.


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## slatham (Dec 3, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Ripcord could present an interesting challenge for the snowmakers with all of this natural on it, as typically, when they're making snow on it, they make a really wet base layer to try and essentially "bond" that base layer to the rocks underneath on the pitch, and then back the water content in the guns down during roughly the 2nd half of the run time to get a surface that doesn't ski/ride like 6-12" of glorified elmer's glue when they drop the rope on it before it all dries out.
> 
> With all of this natural snow, getting that adhesion between the rocks and the base snow have some different logistical issues to solve compared to past years.



I think they just run the guns extra wet during initial phase. Water leaches down, heavy snow compacts, no issues.

Unfortunately unless they want to hit it this weekend its a moot subject - Mother nature is going to "consolidate" the base next week.


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## ss20 (Dec 3, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Weekend decisions...decisions...Hunter Saturday might be a mess..but will it be a bigger mess than Mt Snow..hmmm



With 100% of the main face open, even with the Bluebird, Grand Summit, and Canyon lifts running there's still plenty of trails for everyone.  It's when they get traffic from the  Sundance triple, Ego Alley triple, and people exiting Sunbrook  that things can get "tight" even with all the trails open.


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2019)

ss20 said:


> With 100% of the main face open, even with the Bluebird, Grand Summit, and Canyon lifts running there's still plenty of trails for everyone.  It's when they get traffic from the  Sundance triple, Ego Alley triple, and people exiting Sunbrook  that things can get "tight" even with all the trails open.



With the snow report showing that they've lit up the guns on Cooper's Junction, hopefully that means that they'll get Sundance Lodge open for the weekend, as both another parking lot/lodge as well as getting the buses out of the main lot by where the Moover's pick up and drop off and over to Sundance where they are for most of the season...


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## FreeRider (Dec 3, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Mt. Snow is out of range for me.  I'm leaning more and more toward Hunter.



Hunter was good today but if they don't fix the flyer by the weekend forget about it. Lines were lengthy at both b and f lifts and it takes so long.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 3, 2019)

FreeRider said:


> Hunter was good today but if they don't fix the flyer by the weekend forget about it. Lines were lengthy at both b and f lifts and it takes so long.



On Hunter Facebook page from about an hour ago saying it's now fixed


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## kingslug (Dec 4, 2019)

Nice...


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## jaywbigred (Dec 4, 2019)

Snow report still showing only 38/87 trails open, but I think Dr. Jeff's prior comment might be accurate that certain trails are marked closed because of ongoing snowmaking (and park building as well, over at Carinthia) and not because of lack of snow.

I am hoping for a nice jump in trail count and acreage for the weekend. Wonder if they will get ops going over in Sunbrook to help thin the crowd? One can hope. 

Also, interesting that 9 a.m. open sticks through this weekend, that surprises me a bit. Oh well.


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## drjeff (Dec 4, 2019)

jaywbigred said:


> Snow report still showing only 38/87 trails open, but I think Dr. Jeff's prior comment might be accurate that certain trails are marked closed because of ongoing snowmaking (and park building as well, over at Carinthia) and not because of lack of snow.
> 
> I am hoping for a nice jump in trail count and acreage for the weekend. Wonder if they will get ops going over in Sunbrook to help thin the crowd? One can hope.
> 
> Also, interesting that 9 a.m. open sticks through this weekend, that surprises me a bit. Oh well.


The video report today mentioned Sunbrook as "next week" so that's more likely a staffing issue for now..

Trail count wise... Who knows, the classic post storm Mount Snow wind that we all know too well may have scoured a bunch of snow off the open trails and into the woods thus keeping some ropes up??? 

Guess I'll find out a bit after 9 on Saturday.   And I did find it somewhat amusing when the weekly email to race team parents came out this afternoon with the training schedule for the weekend, basically saying that they can't remember that the last time there was a 9AM weekend start before?? 

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## GregoryIsaacs (Dec 4, 2019)

lol Saturday at/near the bluebird around 845am is going to be one rowdy scene. I may bring my lawn chair instead of skis! 

Dr Jeff happen to know what the predominant wind direction has been?


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## drjeff (Dec 4, 2019)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> lol Saturday at/near the bluebird around 845am is going to be one rowdy scene. I may bring my lawn chair instead of skis!
> 
> Dr Jeff happen to know what the predominant wind direction has been?


I'm hoping that at the opening bell on Saturday that they have Canyon, Bluebird and Grand Summit spinning!! 

Going to more than likely need all the capacity they have in the base area to get the likely "EPIC" crowd dispersed a bit

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## kingslug (Dec 5, 2019)

Looking at the trail count at all the mt's..Mt Snow and Hunter have it. Guess I'll get there early. Haven't been there in a long while.


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## JimG. (Dec 5, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Guess I'll get there early. Haven't been there in a long while.



Hah you and the masses from Epic east.


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## kingslug (Dec 5, 2019)

Not any more...I will be non Epic Saturday...


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## drjeff (Dec 7, 2019)

A bit crazy with a line stretching all the way out to route 100 about 8:30 just to get into the parking lots!!

On the hill, actually quite reasonable crowd wise. I was riding the Bluebird all morning while skiing with friends, and waited in maybe 1 10 minute line, otherwise was more like 5 minute lines.

The snow is great! Like Western Soft pack, but you have way more Oxygen in the air to breathe! Still a bunch of untracked spots here and there for a few turns as well.

Gotta get the 2 to almost 6 feet in a drift of snow cleared off of my deck before the wet weather and subsequent freeze up hits the beginning of next week, or else I may not be able to get to my grill on my deck until it all thaws in the Spring after that freezes up! 

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## Pez (Dec 7, 2019)

Any word when they might open Sunbrook? 


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## Greg (Dec 7, 2019)

4th chair up the bubble. Hit the north face all day except for 3 runs on ledge and one on uncle's. About 4 rides up were a 10 min wait. The rest were sub-5 minutes and many ski on basically.  We ended the day right as they closed the bubble. Felt like mid-Feb. Jaws and Olympic were ROTDs. Olympic woods was great too. Cooked!


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## drjeff (Dec 7, 2019)

Pez said:


> Any word when they might open Sunbrook?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


They were making a big cloud back there today!

My guess is they run the guns as long as they can tomorrow. Shut down ahead of the warm Monday/Tuesday weather system. Let everything drain out for a couple of days and then drop the ropes and open up back there late next week

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## Pez (Dec 8, 2019)

thanks.

as long as they have canyon, summit and bluebird running i don't think the lift lines will be too bad today


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## Jcb890 (Dec 9, 2019)

Yesterday the lines weren't too bad actually.
The parking lot was crazy and the lodge was very busy, but lift lines were never bad.
It still seems very early in the season to be discussing how busy things are, lift lines, etc.


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## njdiver85 (Dec 9, 2019)

Carinthia line about 10:30 am yesterday was terrible.  Singles line snaking up the hill towards the last roller.  Long wait times. Heavy Metal not running.  Mount Snow sadly couldn't find two people in all their staff to run Heavy Metal.  Pretty sad!


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## mbedle (Dec 9, 2019)

njdiver85 said:


> Carinthia line about 10:30 am yesterday was terrible.  Singles line snaking up the hill towards the last roller.  Long wait times. Heavy Metal not running.  Mount Snow sadly couldn't find two people in all their staff to run Heavy Metal.  Pretty sad!



Pretty sure it takes more than 2 people to run the lift, plus people trained to operate the lift.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 9, 2019)

mbedle said:


> Pretty sure it takes more than 2 people to run the lift, plus people trained to operate the lift.


Lifts on the North Face (Fixed grip) are generally run by 2 people - 1 up top and 1 at the bottom.
Sometimes there will be a 3rd to sit inside and operate controls if need-be while the other one helps hold chairs back for folks getting on, but generally that guy/gal at the bottom does both jobs.


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Lifts on the North Face (Fixed grip) are generally run by 2 people - 1 up top and 1 at the bottom.
> Sometimes there will be a 3rd to sit inside and operate controls if need-be while the other one helps hold chairs back for folks getting on, but generally that guy/gal at the bottom does both jobs.


Northface has been 3 folks running the lift more often than not in the recent past. Occasionally they'll add a 4 for line management in really busy times. 

Bluebird typically has 5 to 6+ at the base with line management and ticket scanners and 1 up top. Canyon, Nitro and The Grand Summit tend to have 3 to 5 at the base and 1 up top.

Pretty much the only lifts that just have 2 staff operating them are the magic carpets. When you factor in all the lifts Mount Snow has, even with out the mechanics, you're talking the need for well over 50 people to safely operate all them, and in the early season where the numerous foreign staff haven't arrived to work yet, and/or haven't received their proper training, while on the surface it may seem like it should be quite easy to find a few folks to spin another lift or 2, the reality is that it isn't so easy 

My hunch is that this weekend they'll try and spin most everything short of possibly Ego Alley and Sundance triples to get as many lift ops staffers up and running now that presumably they've had their training. Then the following weekend, the start of Christmas week, is when they'll really have everything wide open on the lift ops side

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## Pez (Dec 9, 2019)

I spoke with the kid that ladled out my chili for lunch yesterday and she said that they’ve been a bit understaffed the last few days.  She told me this week the people coming over to work from other countries will be coming in so they’ll have more staff very soon. 

Good day yesterday.  I’m out of shape!  


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## Newpylong (Dec 9, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Lifts on the North Face (Fixed grip) are generally run by 2 people - 1 up top and 1 at the bottom.
> Sometimes there will be a 3rd to sit inside and operate controls if need-be while the other one helps hold chairs back for folks getting on, but generally that guy/gal at the bottom does both jobs.



Aerial lifts are supposed to have 3 per code. 2 bottom 1 top. Though of course 2 occurs...


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## jaytrem (Dec 9, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> Aerial lifts are supposed to have 3 per code. 2 bottom 1 top. Though of course 2 occurs...



And sometimes 1 in CO.


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2019)

I'd just like to wish the Bluebird a happy 8th birthday today!  While it certainly has had some ups and downs and created some other issues, especially with the loading of 6 folks and the line queue design, without a doubt in my mind it has been a game changer lift for Mount Snow as well as bringing in the bubble era to the Northeast


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## Jcb890 (Dec 10, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Northface has been 3 folks running the lift more often than not in the recent past. Occasionally they'll add a 4 for line management in really busy times.
> 
> Bluebird typically has 5 to 6+ at the base with line management and ticket scanners and 1 up top. Canyon, Nitro and The Grand Summit tend to have 3 to 5 at the base and 1 up top.
> 
> ...


Really? Perhaps I missed the 3rd attendant at the bottom, but I was seeing 2 sometimes. More often times 3 like you said, but have seen 2 I believe. Sometimes the Bluebird is a bit of a mess even with 5-6+ people running the show, but I guess they do a decent job overall.
Honestly, Sunday it worked really well with only 1 side for lining up and not doing much ticket scanning, LOL. IMO, scan folks at the front of the line, or don't do it at all. Trying to scan while people are lining up, adding singles, etc. just slows things down it seems.

Think they'll open Sunbrook up this weekend? That seemed to be the scuttlebutt on Sunday was that after Founder's day or for Founder's day they were hoping to have most of the mountain open. I'm sure this rain didn't help and then it looks like more rain Friday into Saturday which is a bummer!



Pez said:


> I spoke with the kid that ladled out my chili for lunch yesterday and she said that they’ve been a bit understaffed the last few days.  She told me this week the people coming over to work from other countries will be coming in so they’ll have more staff very soon.
> 
> Good day yesterday.  *I’m out of shape!*


Ain't that the truth (bold)!
I spoke with one of the kitchen staff up at the Bullwheel and he was saying basically they're still in early-season mode until Founder's Day, then they have a new menu, etc.



Newpylong said:


> Aerial lifts are supposed to have 3 per code. 2 bottom 1 top. Though of course 2 occurs...


Typically it is 3, but I haves seen 2 once in a while. It is typically fine, but I understand the requirement for more than 2.



drjeff said:


> I'd just like to wish the Bluebird a happy 8th birthday today!  While it certainly has had some ups and downs and created some other issues, especially with the loading of 6 folks and the line queue design, without a doubt in my mind it has been a game changer lift for Mount Snow as well as bringing in the bubble era to the Northeast


The bubble HS6 is great at Mount Snow. On those really cold and windy and/or rainy days the bubble comes in pretty handy.


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2019)

The snow report this morning specifically states that Sunbrook will make it's season debut on Friday.  Just going to let the whales they made drain a bit and then push out likely on Thursday.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 10, 2019)

drjeff said:


> The snow report this morning specifically states that Sunbrook will make it's season debut on Friday.  Just going to let the whales they made drain a bit and then push out likely on Friday


Nice! Sunbrook is sometimes a nice way to escape the crowds. Too bad the lift is sooooo slooowwwww.


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## jaywbigred (Dec 17, 2019)

Random question: anyone know anywhere in the Mt. Snow area where there might be a photos-with-Santa (or similar Santa experience) on Saturday (12/21)? I know there was one at the Dover library a few weeks ago, but we missed it. And there is one in Wardsboro, but its today (a Tuesday??? come on people!!).


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## urungus (Dec 17, 2019)

jaywbigred said:


> Random question: anyone know anywhere in the Mt. Snow area where there might be a photos-with-Santa (or similar Santa experience) on Saturday (12/21)? I know there was one at the Dover library a few weeks ago, but we missed it. And there is one in Wardsboro, but its today (a Tuesday??? come on people!!).



https://www.santaslandusa.com/


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2019)

No superpipe this season. Just a mini pipe and some additional features in that general area this year.

I think the reality is that short of a very small percentage of the skiing/riding population, the usage of a Superpipe isn't worth the return on the investment that it takes to produce and maintain it over the course of a season


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## FBGM (Dec 20, 2019)

drjeff said:


> No superpipe this season. Just a mini pipe and some additional features in that general area this year.
> 
> I think the reality is that short of a very small percentage of the skiing/riding population, the usage of a Superpipe isn't worth the return on the investment that it takes to produce and maintain it over the course of a season



No surprise there. Waste of snow and money. Will never see a super pipe again now with Vail. The parks in general will
Be much smaller next year. They are currently to big, rushed and sloppy, and are taking up
To much good real estate. Especially with that new lodge. I’d expect parks to be 2 trails at most next year with rest going back to normal ski trails and a big push for that lodge to be a normal people lodge not for the jibbers.


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## mbedle (Dec 20, 2019)

FBGM said:


> No surprise there. Waste of snow and money. Will never see a super pipe again now with Vail. The parks in general will
> Be much smaller next year. They are currently to big, rushed and sloppy, and are taking up
> To much good real estate. Especially with that new lodge. I’d expect parks to be 2 trails at most next year with rest going back to normal ski trails and a big push for that lodge to be a normal people lodge not for the jibbers.



Didn't seem to matter at Okemo - they still have a super pipe.


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## chuckstah (Dec 20, 2019)

They were blowing snow in the pipe when I was there Wednesday. Must just be filling it in?

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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 20, 2019)

it makes sense for okemo and mount snow to have a heavy investment in parks. they need something to lure young people, and the boring flat groomers aren't it.

and the flatness is objective fact:
http://3dskimaps.com/mtsnow/
http://3dskimaps.com/okemo/


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2019)

chuckstah said:


> They were blowing snow in the pipe when I was there Wednesday. Must just be filling it in?
> 
> Sent from my moto e5 cruise using AlpineZone mobile app



They're going to have a mini pipe in the area (that has always had more usage when they've built one) as well as some additional park features in that general area, so they need snow to create those. It's not like that now open area is going to remain featureless, just going to be of a different size and probably somewhat of an extension of the features already in that general area


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> it makes sense for okemo and mount snow to have a heavy investment in parks. they need something to lure young people, and the boring flat groomers aren't it.
> 
> and the flatness is objective fact:
> http://3dskimaps.com/mtsnow/
> http://3dskimaps.com/okemo/



Those parks at Mount Snow sure do help sell them a bunch of passes and day tickets all season long.

While I may wish that some of that terrain was left featureless to carve some arcs in, the business side of me fully gets the importance they are for bringing people to the mountain, and that does benefit the entirety of my home mountain for sure in the big scheme of things


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## Jcb890 (Dec 20, 2019)

If anyone here has the pulse on Mt. Snow locked down, it's definitely FBGM. Always with the accurate and reasonable takes.


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## Morewood (Dec 20, 2019)

Are you sure there won't be a superpipe this year? Mount Snow has USASA Pipe Competition scheduled for 2/8 -2/9. I guess they could move them to Okemo if that's the decision, to not build one at Carinthia. 

Neither have a true Superpipe, which have 22ft walls...both Okemo and Mount Snow build 18 foot pipes. I hope Vail continues to keep at least one pipe running on the east coast.


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## bdfreetuna (Dec 20, 2019)

Morewood said:


> Are you sure there won't be a superpipe this year? Mount Snow has USASA Pipe Competition scheduled for 2/8 -2/9. I guess they could move them to Okemo if that's the decision, to not build one at Carinthia.
> 
> Neither have a true Superpipe, which have 22ft walls...both Okemo and Mount Snow build 18 foot pipes. I hope Vail continues to keep at least one pipe running on the east coast.



Ultrapipe is 28ft walls and Megapipe is 30ft radius and fully enclosed cylinder. Megapipe XL is supposed to be bigger.


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2019)

Morewood said:


> Are you sure there won't be a superpipe this year? Mount Snow has USASA Pipe Competition scheduled for 2/8 -2/9. I guess they could move them to Okemo if that's the decision, to not build one at Carinthia.
> 
> Neither have a true Superpipe, which have 22ft walls...both Okemo and Mount Snow build 18 foot pipes. I hope Vail continues to keep at least one pipe running on the east coast.


Per an email today that the director of the training center, where the Alpine and freestyle/park programs are based out of, sent out, there won't be a superpipe this season

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## ss20 (Dec 21, 2019)

No surprise. No one makes pipes anymore.  Killington used to do a mini-pipe and a superpipe, now it's just a bizarre hybrid park with a couple pipe walls in it.  No more pipe at Catamount, Jiminy Peak I think used to do a halfpipe as well.  

The only competition-level park I would like to see in the northeast is something stupid-big on Superstar at Killington.  That would make sense.  World Cup in November, a big park/pipe competition in February, then knock it all down for spring skiing.  That way they'd actually get use out of all that snow they blow for the spring stockpile before spring comes.   With its northern exposure Superstar, is absolutely atrocious December-March, and its only gotten worse with the world cup now...I don't think anyone would miss it if it became a huge terrain park, especially if it funded more snowmaking on it.


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## Newpylong (Dec 21, 2019)

Superstar is too steep outside of the flats.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 22, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> Superstar is too steep outside of the flats.


I came to post that same thing. They would have to blow a crapload of more snow to attempt to flatten it out a bit, which still wouldn't work.

Superstar is way too steep for a park or pipe. Maybe a run in for a big-air jump I guess. But that would be a huge waste of space and snow.


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## njdiver85 (Dec 22, 2019)

It was actually quite interesting to watch them construct the superpipe at Mt Snow in years past.  After blowing a ton of snow, multiple groomers worked on it for what seemed like weeks on end.  Not  a big surprise they won't be building it this year.  On the other hand, the re-work of Fools Gold with loads of features and a lot of snow blown there was really impressive, and likely a far bigger bang for the buck.


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## drjeff (Dec 23, 2019)

njdiver85 said:


> It was actually quite interesting to watch them construct the superpipe at Mt Snow in years past.  After blowing a ton of snow, multiple groomers worked on it for what seemed like weeks on end.  Not  a big surprise they won't be building it this year.  On the other hand, the re-work of Fools Gold with loads of features and a lot of snow blown there was really impressive, and likely a far bigger bang for the buck.




I was going to be curious to see how they built the half pipe this year, as it was mentioned, by some management folks late last season, that the plan was going to be to use some of the massive amounts of snow used to build the North wall and the massive amounts of snow they use to build the last couple of jumps on Inferno somewhat in tandem to be more efficient with the snow made in that area and kind of have the North wall of the pipe and the last jumps on Inferno all part of the same mass of snow. That was apparently why they cut down the trees that used to be between the North wall of the pipe and Inferno.

Guess we'll never know now....


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## sugarbushskier (Dec 26, 2019)

Contrary to what I usually do during holiday periods, I'm considering a day trip to Mt Snow tomorrow just to get back out. Will it be a shitshow, or just crowded?  The weather isn't going to be ideal so that may keep some folks away.

Thoughts from those in the know......

Thanks.


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## prsboogie (Dec 26, 2019)

I was thinking NYD for a day out. Usually the quieter of the holiday days???





sugarbushskier said:


> Contrary to what I usually do during holiday periods, I'm considering a day trip to Mt Snow tomorrow just to get back out. Will it be a shitshow, or just crowded?  The weather isn't going to be ideal so that may keep some folks away.
> 
> Thoughts from those in the know......
> 
> Thanks.



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## drjeff (Dec 26, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Contrary to what I usually do during holiday periods, I'm considering a day trip to Mt Snow tomorrow just to get back out. Will it be a shitshow, or just crowded?  The weather isn't going to be ideal so that may keep some folks away.
> 
> Thoughts from those in the know......
> 
> Thanks.


Tough to tell how the weather will effect it. Was EMPTY this morning... Got 20 runs in by noon. Some crowds starting to arrive around lunch, and condo parking lots filling up a bit now compared to this morning. 

Will the "wintry mix" forecasted keep some of the masses off the hill tomorrow morning? Only time will tell....

Snow is firm underneath, but loose granular on top, Ripcord was perfect, grippy, dry "styrofoam" like snow with BIG whales. Lots of fun!

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## icecoast1 (Dec 26, 2019)

sugarbushskier said:


> Contrary to what I usually do during holiday periods, I'm considering a day trip to Mt Snow tomorrow just to get back out. Will it be a shitshow, or just crowded?  The weather isn't going to be ideal so that may keep some folks away.
> 
> Thoughts from those in the know......
> 
> Thanks.




Probably pretty busy but they're running all 20 lifts so you should be able to manage the crowds if you know where to go....


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## Pez (Dec 27, 2019)

they've been having issues with their web cams.  You'd think they'd get those back up and running right away.


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## Smellytele (Dec 27, 2019)

Pez said:


> they've been having issues with their web cams.  You'd think they'd get those back up and running right away.



Probably don’t want people to see the weather


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## Glenn (Dec 27, 2019)

Pez said:


> they've been having issues with their web cams.  You'd think they'd get those back up and running right away.



I noticed that as well.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 27, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> Probably don’t want people to see the weather
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



They have them turned so you can't see the lift lines either


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## Pez (Dec 28, 2019)

ya the base cam used to switch positions.


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## asnowmobiler (Dec 28, 2019)

This was posted on Facebook.


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## NYDB (Dec 29, 2019)

What are people thinking?   go for a hike or something.  Most hiking trails in SoVt have no snow.  Much more fun than waiting in line with 1000's of other jabronis to slide down an ice sheet


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## Smellytele (Dec 29, 2019)

Waiting for Dr Jeff to say it wasn't that bad.


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## Edd (Dec 29, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> Waiting for Dr Jeff to say it wasn't that bad.



Was totally my thought as well.


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## njdiver85 (Dec 29, 2019)

Lines were long yesterday for the Bluebird lift, but in that picture, in the distance you can see the Summit Express lift which goes to the same place.  Lines there quite short, especially the singles line.


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## FBGM (Dec 29, 2019)

Edd said:


> Was totally my thought as well.




That dudes hard on for the place is embarrassing.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 29, 2019)

NY DirtBag said:


> What are people thinking?   go for a hike or something.  Most hiking trails in SoVt have no snow.  Much more fun than waiting in line with 1000's of other jabronis to slide down an ice sheet




My thoughts exactly.  I get some people can only go out on weekends,  But days like this make me wonder what's the point


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## cdskier (Dec 29, 2019)

icecoast1 said:


> My thoughts exactly.  I get some people can only go out on weekends,  But days like this make me wonder what's the point



I could never deal with that many people and don't understand how anyone else can either. I generally stay away on holiday weekends specifically to avoid that type of stuff, although my resort (Sugarbush) honestly hasn't looked bad at all anytime I've looked at the webcams. I'm a bit surprised at how small the lift lines have looked there. I guess everyone is at Mt Snow!


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## Glenn (Dec 30, 2019)

asnowmobiler said:


> This was posted on Facebook.View attachment 25859



This is why my wife and I opt to never ski holidays in SoVT. As mentioned, hiking/snowshoeing, snowmobiling or ice skating are better options. Hell, I'd rather go grocery shopping then be in a liftline like that no matter what the mountain.


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## slatham (Dec 30, 2019)

asnowmobiler said:


> This was posted on Facebook.View attachment 25859



Is this really this past weekend?


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## asnowmobiler (Dec 30, 2019)

I just hope after a shit show day of skiing and waiting in lines is worth the nightlife that comes with it.
Sometimes it’s about the party atmosphere and not all about the skiing, I’m somewhere in the middle depending on my plans.


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## drjeff (Dec 30, 2019)

slatham said:


> Is this really this past weekend?


Definitely could of been Saturday or Sunday this past weekend! The Bluebird had lines that size at times both days.

Lots of folks here this Holiday period, even still tonight on the back end of the sleet/freezing rain event (finally some actual steady light snow in the last hour or two) there's still as many cars parked in my condo complex as there typically is on a BUSY weekend 

Really hope the pattern shift to COLD forecasted about a week from now, with an extended run of atleast GOOD Snowmaking temps materializes. Over 5" of rain, and little natural snow, since the big early December storm, and now no reasonable length window of decent Snowmaking temps the last week, has things skiing firm, thin (both trail width and in numerous spots Snow depth), and looking more like late March than late December

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## jaytrem (Dec 31, 2019)

Question of the day....

How did Stratton manage to get 4 detachables open while MS has 0?


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## Glenn (Dec 31, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Question of the day....
> 
> How did Stratton manage to get 4 detachables open while MS has 0?



I just checked the livecam. The line to Ego is extending beyond under the Grand Summit.


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## Pez (Dec 31, 2019)

higher elevation = less ice?


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## FBGM (Dec 31, 2019)

jaytrem said:


> Question of the day....
> 
> How did Stratton manage to get 4 detachables open while MS has 0?



More qualified employees and people who know. This will change next year at Mount Snow when Vail fires more and gets better in.


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## jaytrem (Dec 31, 2019)

Heavy Metal has a queue to get on the queue.  Seems organized at least.  Nitro moving slowly, maybe open today???


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## icecoast1 (Dec 31, 2019)

Pez said:


> higher elevation = less ice?




That doesn't explain why they couldn't get Nitro or Canyon going, because those lift elevations are pretty much identical to Strattons base area detachables that are running.   This is nothing more than a staffing and preparation issue which i'm sure Vail will fix especially with an Alterra mountain right up the road making them look bad


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## njdiver85 (Dec 31, 2019)

Very poor showing by Mount Snow (and Vail) for that matter.  Seemed to be a staffing issue to me and to everyone else I spoke with as well, many who were long time Mount Snow passholders.  Not clearly enough staff qualified to de-ice the lifts.  They didn't even have staff to help with the line management on the few lifts actually open.  They must have told people not to show up to save money perhaps?  Actually had a guy from ski patrol working the line over at Carinthia.  Poor communication on the snow report.  Bullwheel closed.  Only two or three people working the lower level of the Summit lodge - nobody cleaning up, food all over the floor, dirty tables - quite disgusting.   Also, heard a rumor today that Mount Snow has exceeded their snowmaking budget at this point in time, and that contributed to them not making snow during the few snowmaking windows they had over the past week.


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## crazy (Dec 31, 2019)

njdiver85 said:


> Very poor showing by Mount Snow (and Vail) for that matter.  Seemed to be a staffing issue to me and to everyone else I spoke with as well, many who were long time Mount Snow passholders.  Not clearly enough staff qualified to de-ice the lifts.  They didn't even have staff to help with the line management on the few lifts actually open.  They must have told people not to show up to save money perhaps?  Actually had a guy from ski patrol working the line over at Carinthia.  Poor communication on the snow report.  Bullwheel closed.  Only two or three people working the lower level of the Summit lodge - nobody cleaning up, food all over the floor, dirty tables - quite disgusting.   Also, heard a rumor today that Mount Snow has exceeded their snowmaking budget at this point in time, and that contributed to them not making snow during the few snowmaking windows they had over the past week.



I hate to say this, but maybe Vail taking charge next year will be a good thing. While I appreciate the vibe of Wildcat, Peaks was not a good owner. They have been neglecting Attitash, and apparently understaffing Mount Snow, which is their premium product!


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## patroller_sam (Dec 31, 2019)

Glenn said:


> I just checked the livecam. The line to Ego is extending beyond under the Grand Summit.



Stratton had all of the chairs on the detaches parked overnight to eliminate ice on the grips. Lift mechs were out yesterday afternoon chipping ice off of lifts to get a head start as well. We also kept Amex running with no chairs in an attempt to prevent freezing of the cable. Mount snow takes none of those procedures...


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## JimG. (Dec 31, 2019)

patroller_sam said:


> Stratton had all of the chairs on the detaches parked overnight to eliminate ice on the grips. Lift mechs were out yesterday afternoon chipping ice off of lifts to get a head start as well. We also kept Amex running with no chairs in an attempt to prevent freezing of the cable. Mount snow takes none of those procedures...



Interesting.

I believe Belleayre was also closed yesterday due to icing.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 31, 2019)

Mount Snow already saying they plan to start Bluebird and Grand Summit Express on hold to continue de-icing. Considering how much time has elapsed, that's pretty pathetic, is it not?


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## slatham (Dec 31, 2019)

Much different animal BUT, Bromley worked hard yesterday (Monday, day of ice) to get the fixed grips open. They put all the HSQ chairs under cover. So by 10:30 today 100% operational.

Of course Magic was 100% at 9am....sometimes the road less traveled is the road to take......


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## JimG. (Dec 31, 2019)

slatham said:


> Much different animal BUT, Bromley worked hard yesterday (Monday, day of ice) to get the fixed grips open. They put all the HSQ chairs under cover. So by 10:30 today 100% operational.
> 
> Of course Magic was 100% at 9am....sometimes the road less traveled is the road to take......



Much to be admired about simple.

I'm gonna have to get over to Magic for a day this season.


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## drjeff (Dec 31, 2019)

Jcb890 said:


> Mount Snow already saying they plan to start Bluebird and Grand Summit Express on hold to continue de-icing. Considering how much time has elapsed, that's pretty pathetic, is it not?


The amended statment later was that the Wednesdsy delay to the Bluebird and the GSE is due to the lightning strike that happened to them in the storm that passed Monday about 3:30PM (I can 100% attest to that storm - it was full bore mid Summer thunder and lightning, but with dime sized sleet instead of rain!!), and from a reliable source a different lightning strike also took out the communications tower near the top terminal of the Sunbrook Quad!! 

That was as crazy of a winter weather event as I have experienced in the 17 of the last 19 years that I have been a seasonal and then full owner, Mount Snow regular...

As much as the scenario absolutely sucked, the weather Mother Nature threw a Mount Snow the
Last 48hts or so completely handicapped them!!!

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## njdiver85 (Jan 1, 2020)

The fact that the lightening strike happened on Monday at 3:30pm, and they only realized it 24 hours later that both of their only base to summit lifts were affected speaks volumes to what appears to be bad management, insufficient qualified staff, or lack of appropriate post storm review.  I've always been a pretty big Mount Snow supporter, but I can find no reason to give them a "pass" on this one.

I can't imagine that Vail is happy with the negative publicity they are getting on FB and Insta.  Hopefully, the lift survey that Vail did pre-season, plus the recent events and the mountain's poor response, will change things for the better in future seasons as changes are made.


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## Jcb890 (Jan 1, 2020)

drjeff said:


> The amended statment later was that the Wednesdsy delay to the Bluebird and the GSE is due to the lightning strike that happened to them in the storm that passed Monday about 3:30PM (I can 100% attest to that storm - it was full bore mid Summer thunder and lightning, but with dime sized sleet instead of rain!!), and from a reliable source a different lightning strike also took out the communications tower near the top terminal of the Sunbrook Quad!!
> 
> That was as crazy of a winter weather event as I have experienced in the 17 of the last 19 years that I have been a seasonal and then full owner, Mount Snow regular...
> 
> ...


Both snow report and lift operators saying today's delay is due to de-icing. I'm a big Mt. Snow fan, but this is fucking pathetic today to be frank.

The snow isn't bad at least but this Canyon Express line is outrageous.


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## MommaBear (Jan 1, 2020)

asnowmobiler said:


> This was posted on Facebook.View attachment 25859



Not saying the lines weren't long, but this picture is a bit deceptive if you aren't familiar with the base layout.  The people in the foreground aren't waiting for the lift in the background.  The Bluebird lift is to the right.  What you see there is a south side corral, a north side corral and the people way back waiting in an entirely different line for the Summit lift.


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## ski&soccermom (Jan 1, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> Both snow report and lift operators saying today's delay is due to de-icing. I'm a big Mt. Snow fan, but this is fucking pathetic today to be frank.
> 
> The snow isn't bad at least but this Canyon Express line is outrageous.



I agree.  Love Mount Snow, but why isn’t Ego running if they knew the day would be starting without summit access for the third day in a row?  At least that would have shortened the Canyon line...


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## drjeff (Jan 1, 2020)

ski&soccermom said:


> I agree.  Love Mount Snow, but why isn’t Ego running if they knew the day would be starting without summit access for the third day in a row?  At least that would have shortened the Canyon line...


They started loading bubbles on the haul rope just about 10 this morning as my son and I hit the Canyon line. Waited 15 minutes in the Canyon line. Rope to the Northface dropped just before we unloaded from Canyon. Took Challenger up, did the Sunbrook pass through (great snow, but the Sunbrook Quad is still in need of some major de-icing work before it's scheduled to spin tomorrow) then up Beartrap and down to Carinthia. Full queue there, but was fortunate enough to catch them opening up an extra queue lane just as my son and I came off of Inferno. Back to the mainbase area to meet up with friends and the Bluebird is loading, with a full "weekend sized" queue - Canyon has maybe 3 or 4 groups in each queue lane. Main outer parking lot by the North Entrance looks to be just about full today.. 



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## Jcb890 (Jan 1, 2020)

drjeff said:


> They started loading bubbles on the haul rope just about 10 this morning as my son and I hit the Canyon line. Waited 15 minutes in the Canyon line. Rope to the Northface dropped just before we unloaded from Canyon. Took Challenger up, did the Sunbrook pass through (great snow, but the Sunbrook Quad is still in need of some major de-icing work before it's scheduled to spin tomorrow) then up Beartrap and down to Carinthia. Full queue there, but was fortunate enough to catch them opening up an extra queue lane just as my son and I came off of Inferno. Back to the mainbase area to meet up with friends and the Bluebird is loading, with a full "weekend sized" queue - Canyon has maybe 3 or 4 groups in each queue lane. Main outer parking lot by the North Entrance looks to be just about full today..
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


Yeah, that was great they got Bluebird up and running today. What a cluster...

The wait for Canyon was easily 30 mins after 9:30 am or so. Stopped for a bathroom break then just sat and watched and waited for Bluebird rather than sit in a 30-35 min lift line for Canyon.

I heard from folks on the lift today that yesterday there was people waiting 2 hours to get on the Ego Alley lift.


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## Jcb890 (Jan 1, 2020)

Complaining aside... we should all get together one of these days and do a run or 2.


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## WWF-VT (Jan 1, 2020)

Can't believe people put up with the lines at Mount Snow...


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## patroller_sam (Jan 1, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> The fact that the lightening strike happened on Monday at 3:30pm, and they only realized it 24 hours later that both of their only base to summit lifts were affected speaks volumes to what appears to be bad management, insufficient qualified staff, or lack of appropriate post storm review.  I've always been a pretty big Mount Snow supporter, but I can find no reason to give them a "pass" on this one.



Hate to keep comparing to Stratton, but it’s kinda easy to considering it’s only twenty minutes up the road.

We were hit with the same crazy weather on Monday as well. As soon as we heard thunder, dispatch was informed and all lifts were immediately offloaded while mechanics raced between terminals to disconnect power/comlines/etc. I don’t think anyone at mount snow considers any of this.

Mount Snow not realizing all of their problems until the morning after certainty goes to show how shitty their management is. I used to be a pass holder there for four years before switching to Stratton, and I am appalled about how quickly their shit is rolling downhill.

Pathetic.


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## cdskier (Jan 1, 2020)

WWF-VT said:


> Can't believe people put up with the lines at Mount Snow...



I can't either...but I'm glad they do so there's not more people up our way.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 1, 2020)

FBGM said:


> More qualified employees and people who know. This will change next year at Mount Snow when Vail fires more and gets better in.


Okemo had the same issues.  Didn't start de-icing chairs until 9:30.   

Where was savior Vail for Okemo?

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## icecoast1 (Jan 1, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Okemo had the same issues.  Didn't start de-icing chairs until 9:30.
> 
> Where was savior Vail for Okemo?
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app




Good question, but with your major competition right up the road kicking you in the teeth like they did this week, somebody at Vail surely noticed.   Time will tell what happens but I'd be shocked if changes arent made at mount snow once Vail takes full control because  they arent going to like consistently getting one upped by Alterra, and this isnt the first time Stratton had detachable lifts going while Mount Snow didn't.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 2, 2020)

I guess my point is that Vail is already into their second season at Okemo and they allowed the same issues to occur there as what happened at Mt Snow.   Stratton is also a major competitor for Okemo.  


Did Killington have any delays on their lifts this week?  Other than the power outage caused by a downed tree?

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## skiur (Jan 2, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> I guess my point is that Vail is already into their second season at Okemo and they allowed the same issues to occur there as what happened at Mt Snow.   Stratton is also a major competitor for Okemo.
> 
> 
> Did Killington have any delays on their lifts this week?  Other than the power outage caused by a downed tree?
> ...



Killington was a major shitshow this week.  And it was power outages, the day after the big one, another happened and shut down pico and ramshead as well.  They also had there regular lift problems which occur way too often.  This holiday week was one that Killington wants to forget.


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## njdiver85 (Jan 2, 2020)

ski&soccermom said:


> I agree.  Love Mount Snow, but why isn’t Ego running if they knew the day would be starting without summit access for the third day in a row?  At least that would have shortened the Canyon line...



This was my thought yesterday.  Clearly shows poor management and lack of care for the customers.  Ego should have been running until they had Bluebird open.  Lines were ridiculous yesterday.

Also, insufficient staff at the Summit lodge and Bullwheel opened very late and no food coming out for quite a while.  Also no sign posting as to when the Bullwheel was going to open.  Line of frustrated people waiting and wondering.  Management should have gotten more workers up there and much earlier in anticipation of the Bluebird opening.  Yet again, an example of poor management and lack of care for the customers.

Finally, why was lift line management so poor yesterday?  Nobody there to extend the ropes at the only open chair at the main base. Created confusion and dangerous conditions with people coming down the hill straight at the crowd.  Later, three lifties hiding in the Bluebird shack while chairs going up with empty seats while lines were still crazy.  Had to knock on the door to ask them why nobody pairing singles, and then two shuffled out and started actually working.  

Mount Snow has proven to be inconsistent and lacking with respect to many of their operations.  Some will simply give them a pass, sum it up and blame mother nature for ALL the issues, but that is a bunch of b.s.


----------



## jaytrem (Jan 2, 2020)

https://www.saminfo.com/archives/2010-2017/2018/january-2018/item/164884-meet-the-new-boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o


----------



## drjeff (Jan 2, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> https://www.saminfo.com/archives/2010-2017/2018/january-2018/item/164884-meet-the-new-boss
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o


----------



## ghughes20 (Jan 2, 2020)

As a Stratton skier, and Snow frequent visitor, it's unfortunate to see all the complaints.  

I was at Stratton for the 27-30th.  Didn't ski on the 27th (rain), or the 28 (late opening, late grooming, etc).  I did ski the 29th and it was crowded and instantly skied off.  Lots of ice.  We did ski the morning of the 30th, but only had access to mid-mountain via fixed grip lifts due to ice.  I don't think the detachable lifts got running until the 31st, but we had left at 2pm the day before.  I would have guessed the 31st would have been a good day with the fresh snow.  Still, sounds like it was worse at Snow.

From the sounds of it, Stratton did a decent job of trying to prep the lifts for the ice.  Chairs and Cars were in the garage to the extent possible.   Lightning is pretty crazy in the winter, but I experienced it once in Utah in February, so obviously its possible anywhere.

Just a terrible holiday week all around.   Planning a VT ski trip for Christmas week is dicey.

This weekend also looks iffy too.  Maybe we get lucky and the current low follows a southerly track and we get snow in VT.  I almost don't want to look at the recent forecast.   I don't think we'll see solid snow-making temps until the 6th.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 2, 2020)

wow. i am so glad i go west every xmas. even with perfect snow, vermont xmas week is an utter shitshow.


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## Smellytele (Jan 2, 2020)

KustyTheKlown said:


> wow. i am so glad i go west every xmas. even with perfect snow, vermont xmas week is an utter shitshow.



Those places are shit shows most weekends. NH (well Cannon and Wildcat) was ski on or just a few chair wait the whole time. Conditions at Cannon were good on New Year's day as well (and cheaper for me than chancing flying out West where Christmas can be a crap shoot as well).


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## NYDB (Jan 3, 2020)

ghughes20 said:


> As a Stratton skier, and Snow frequent visitor, it's unfortunate to see all the complaints.
> 
> I was at Stratton for the 27-30th.  Didn't ski on the 27th (rain), or the 28 (late opening, late grooming, etc).  I did ski the 29th and it was crowded and instantly skied off.  Lots of ice.  We did ski the morning of the 30th, but only had access to mid-mountain via fixed grip lifts due to ice.  I don't think the detachable lifts got running until the 31st, but we had left at 2pm the day before.  I would have guessed the 31st would have been a good day with the fresh snow.  Still, sounds like it was worse at Snow.
> 
> ...



The first part I would disagree with.  12/31, 1/1, 1/2 and 1/3 were pretty good for early season.  I had a great time lapping closed runs at Stratton all morning on the 1st while everyone was sleeping.  Fresh tracks all morn.   Stratton is great for that since 98% of the clientele (especially during holidays) doesn't venture off a groomer.

The second part I would change to 'Planning a VT Ski trip more than 4 days in advance anytime is dicey'


----------



## crazy (Jan 4, 2020)

NY DirtBag said:


> The first part I would disagree with.  12/31, 1/1, 1/2 and 1/3 were pretty good for early season.  I had a great time lapping closed runs at Stratton all morning on the 1st while everyone was sleeping.  Fresh tracks all morn.   Stratton is great for that since 98% of the clientele (especially during holidays) doesn't venture off a groomer.
> 
> The second part I would change to 'Planning a VT Ski trip more than 4 days in advance anytime is dicey'



Does ski patrol not are about poaching at Stratton? I'm not judging, this is good intel, this way I know that I can poach when I ski there.


----------



## Glenn (Jan 6, 2020)

Hearsay alert: 
I talked to my neighbor in VT this weekend; he's skis mid week at Mt. Snow. He and his wife know someone who works at the mountain. Allegedly, since Vail took over, the number of staff working at any given time has been reduced. 

Again, not firsthand info....


----------



## icecoast1 (Jan 6, 2020)

Glenn said:


> Hearsay alert:
> I talked to my neighbor in VT this weekend; he's skis mid week at Mt. Snow. He and his wife know someone who works at the mountain. Allegedly, since Vail took over, the number of staff working at any given time has been reduced.
> 
> Again, not firsthand info....



People love to hate Vail but these problems especially with lifts were going on long before Vail took over, and Vail hasn't fully taken over yet being the first winter either.


----------



## njdiver85 (Jan 6, 2020)

Glenn said:


> Hearsay alert:
> I talked to my neighbor in VT this weekend; he's skis mid week at Mt. Snow. He and his wife know someone who works at the mountain. Allegedly, since Vail took over, the number of staff working at any given time has been reduced.




Would explain a lot of what is going on at the mountain.  Very sad for the staff.  And frustrating for the paying customers.


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## njdiver85 (Jan 6, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> People love to hate Vail but these problems especially with lifts were going on long before Vail took over, and Vail hasn't fully taken over yet being the first winter either.



I do think in the past Mount Snow was much more up front with respect to what was going on with lift operations.  Lately it seems smoke and mirrors.  Saying they are working diligently to get the Grand Summit open on the snow report, yet not a single lift mechanic either at the base, the top, or on any single tower all day tells another story.


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## FBGM (Jan 6, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> I do think in the past Mount Snow was much more up front with respect to what was going on with lift operations.  Lately it seems smoke and mirrors.  Saying they are working diligently to get the Grand Summit open on the snow report, yet not a single lift mechanic either at the base, the top, or on any single tower all day tells another story.



Probably waiting on parts. What should they be doing? Sitting on their thumbs there to look busy?


----------



## njdiver85 (Jan 6, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Probably waiting on parts. What should they be doing? Sitting on their thumbs there to look busy?



The point of the post was that they should be more up front as to what the issue is with the Summit chair.


----------



## slatham (Jan 6, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Probably waiting on parts. What should they be doing? Sitting on their thumbs there to look busy?



No, but how about "We need parts for the lift which will take x time". All about setting expectations.


----------



## FBGM (Jan 6, 2020)

slatham said:


> No, but how about "We need parts for the lift which will take x time". All about setting expectations.



Hi all, Billy our $14/hr two year veteran found a catastrophic failure in the lift today. He rolled the dice and continued to run it to just get everyone off. No one died. We think we have the correct part to band aid it back as quick as possible so we can load it back up and get more people on snow. Let’s hope it holds till year end when we might get funding to fix it correctly. Good luck out there and hope your life insurance is up to date. K thakx bye 


Is that the communication you’re looking for? Because I bet the truth is not that much different.


----------



## crazy (Jan 6, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Hi all, Billy our $14/hr two year veteran found a catastrophic failure in the lift today. He rolled the dice and continued to run it to just get everyone off. No one died. We think we have the correct part to band aid it back as quick as possible so we can load it back up and get more people on snow. Let’s hope it holds till year end when we might get funding to fix it correctly. Good luck out there and hope your life insurance is up to date. K thakx bye
> 
> 
> Is that the communication you’re looking for? Because I bet the truth is not that much different.



:-D that just gave me a good laugh.


----------



## Glenn (Jan 7, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> I do think in the past Mount Snow was much more up front with respect to what was going on with lift operations.  Lately it seems smoke and mirrors.  Saying they are working diligently to get the Grand Summit open on the snow report, yet not a single lift mechanic either at the base, the top, or on any single tower all day tells another story.



Back a few years ago, the Grand Summit had a pretty big issue. IIRC, they posted regular updates and pictures on their website regarding where they were with the repairs. It was pretty neat to follow that along. They also updated folks on the passholder site. During the Peak years, Mount Snow did a really good job with communications.


----------



## FBGM (Jan 7, 2020)

Glenn said:


> Back a few years ago, the Grand Summit had a pretty big issue. IIRC, they posted regular updates and pictures on their website regarding where they were with the repairs. It was pretty neat to follow that along. They also updated folks on the passholder site. During the Peak years, Mount Snow did a really good job with communications.



Well Glenny, you’re in Vail country now. You can’t sneeze or shit without paying or asking permission. Also transparency is dead, and for good reason. Average Joey don’t care about some broken gear shaft.


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## njdiver85 (Jan 12, 2020)

Appears today's snow report is the first time they've decided to mention a maintenance issue with the Grand Summit Express, due to the lightning strike.  It will be 14 days tomorrow since the strike. Prior reports since the ice storm have simply said it was on hold and they were working hard to get it running . . . as in, hey folks, hang in there it'll only be an hour or so! 

I've been a Mount Snow fan and supporter here for quite a while, but this goes beyond a lack of transparency - this is outright deceit to those who are walking up the ticket windows to buy a day or weekend ticket.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 12, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> Appears today's snow report is the first time they've decided to mention a maintenance issue with the Grand Summit Express, due to the lightning strike.  It will be 14 days tomorrow since the strike. Prior reports since the ice storm have simply said it was on hold and they were working hard to get it running . . . as in, hey folks, hang in there it'll only be an hour or so!
> 
> I've been a Mount Snow fan and supporter here for quite a while, but this goes beyond a lack of transparency - this is outright deceit to those who are walking up the ticket windows to buy a day or weekend ticket.


Rumor going around the mountain is that the delay with the repair is due to some issues with getting the needed circuit board(s) manufactured and shipped in from Europe...

Didn't need the extra capacity of the GSE this weekend... Going to need it next weekend... Also going to need some extensive Snowmaking and grooming this week. The weather this weekend did some major damage...

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## jaywbigred (Jan 16, 2020)

Wait, so who is running the mountain now? Peak or Vail? Vail owns it but potentially lame-duck Peak employees are running the show?


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## icecoast1 (Jan 16, 2020)

jaywbigred said:


> Wait, so who is running the mountain now? Peak or Vail? Vail owns it but potentially lame-duck Peak employees are running the show?



Some of both.  The peak properties arent going to be fully integrated with Vail until the spring.


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## sull1102 (Jan 16, 2020)

Has the feeling that most people know they are on the way out so there is not too much incentive


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## jaywbigred (Jan 28, 2020)

Mountain didn't ski half bad this weekend and I was happy with the lack of crowds. Maybe the forecast of mixed precip kept people away. I skied a few hours midday right up until the time I started getting really glazed like a donut with ice, and then a couple more hours on Sunday morning off the fixed grip lifts while they got the detachables de-iced. I think they had everything running by mid-morning. 

Snow report today said they were making snow, so that's a positive.


----------



## FBGM (Jan 28, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> Has the feeling that most people know they are on the way out so there is not too much incentive



Oh I’m sure that’s the attitude around there. The employee and manager base at Mount Snow was very sub par to begin with. The marginal half competent staff left has now seen 2 rounds of cuts. I’m sure they know time could be limited. Don’t blame them really. No reason to care or put in effort when you’re gonna get fired in a few months. 

Vail really bought themselves a pile of shit that they are going to need to turn around before next winter. Luckily nothing happens in summer there and they can run a super lean crew while replacing the key people needed.

My question to the poor suckers who still ski there on the reg - how bad is it? How much of a noticeable difference in attitudes and work ethic? Has the time come yet where the plug has been pulled on money getting thrown at dumb stuff? It’s been a sub par winter for snow and revenue - I feel like snowmaking has to be about wrapped up. I can’t see Vail throwing any money at parks for rest of the year. Just grind it all out till the end. I’d assume they shut down earlier then normal? First week April?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 28, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Oh I’m sure that’s the attitude around there. The employee and manager base at Mount Snow was very sub par to begin with. The marginal half competent staff left has now seen 2 rounds of cuts. I’m sure they know time could be limited. Don’t blame them really. No reason to care or put in effort when you’re gonna get fired in a few months.
> 
> Vail really bought themselves a pile of shit that they are going to need to turn around before next winter. Luckily nothing happens in summer there and they can run a super lean crew while replacing the key people needed.
> 
> My question to the poor suckers who still ski there on the reg - how bad is it? How much of a noticeable difference in attitudes and work ethic? Has the time come yet where the plug has been pulled on money getting thrown at dumb stuff? It’s been a sub par winter for snow and revenue - I feel like snowmaking has to be about wrapped up. I can’t see Vail throwing any money at parks for rest of the year. Just grind it all out till the end. I’d assume they shut down earlier then normal? First week April?


When is the last time you've skied there? Has to be recent and frequent to have the level of knowledge you claim to have about their staff and operations. 

 You've had sand in your vagina over the place since day one of you signing up for this forum.  It's oddly obsessive and juvenile to virtually anyone that reads your drivel, but I'm more curious about your personal experience.

What say you Sandy V?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 28, 2020)

They might shut down first week of April unless the snowfall picks up. I'm just hoping NoVT holds up for end of March into April... got a week booked up in Stowe.


----------



## ss20 (Jan 28, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Oh I’m sure that’s the attitude around there. The employee and manager base at Mount Snow was very sub par to begin with. The marginal half competent staff left has now seen 2 rounds of cuts. I’m sure they know time could be limited. Don’t blame them really. No reason to care or put in effort when you’re gonna get fired in a few months.
> 
> Vail really bought themselves a pile of shit that they are going to need to turn around before next winter. Luckily nothing happens in summer there and they can run a super lean crew while replacing the key people needed.
> 
> My question to the poor suckers who still ski there on the reg - how bad is it? How much of a noticeable difference in attitudes and work ethic? Has the time come yet where the plug has been pulled on money getting thrown at dumb stuff? It’s been a sub par winter for snow and revenue - I feel like snowmaking has to be about wrapped up. I can’t see Vail throwing any money at parks for rest of the year. Just grind it all out till the end. I’d assume they shut down earlier then normal? First week April?



Everyone should watch this quick video/song and read FBGM's posts at the same time.


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## Newpylong (Jan 29, 2020)

Their V.P. of Projects (someone he frequently discussed) left for Boyne, so there's one less thing to have to listen to.


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## FBGM (Jan 29, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Their V.P. of Projects (someone he frequently discussed) left for Boyne, so there's one less thing to have to listen to.



Surprised his head fit through a door for an interview. He was gonna get fired at season end - he knew it. Useless position.


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## spring_mountain_high (Jan 29, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> When is the last time you've skied there? Has to be recent and frequent to have the level of knowledge you claim to have about their staff and operations.
> 
> You've had sand in your vagina over the place since day one of you signing up for this forum.  It's oddly obsessive and juvenile to virtually anyone that reads your drivel, but I'm more curious about your personal experience.
> 
> ...



bump

care to respond???


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## prsboogie (Jan 30, 2020)

Who cares what his response is, he's just a troll.





spring_mountain_high said:


> bump
> 
> care to respond???



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## FBGM (Jan 30, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Who cares what his response is, he's just a troll.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app



Not a single thing I have ever said about that ski area is false. All accurate. Some is opinionated. But nothing false.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 30, 2020)

It was a simple question. When is the last time you skied Mt Snow?

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## FBGM (Jan 30, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> It was a simple question. When is the last time you skied Mt Snow?
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Pre Vail


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## MikeDeJ (Jan 30, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Oh I’m sure that’s the attitude around there. The employee and manager base at Mount Snow was very sub par to begin with. The marginal half competent staff left has now seen 2 rounds of cuts. I’m sure they know time could be limited. Don’t blame them really. No reason to care or put in effort when you’re gonna get fired in a few months.
> 
> Vail really bought themselves a pile of shit that they are going to need to turn around before next winter. Luckily nothing happens in summer there and they can run a super lean crew while replacing the key people needed.
> 
> My question to the poor suckers who still ski there on the reg - how bad is it? How much of a noticeable difference in attitudes and work ethic? Has the time come yet where the plug has been pulled on money getting thrown at dumb stuff? It’s been a sub par winter for snow and revenue - I feel like snowmaking has to be about wrapped up. I can’t see Vail throwing any money at parks for rest of the year. Just grind it all out till the end. I’d assume they shut down earlier then normal? First week April?



I ski the mtn 1-2 days a week, 40-50 times a year, my son also works at Carinthia in the parks.  Vail really has changed nothing yet.  They are still making a ton of snow and the quality has been as good as the weather allows.  The grooming has been as good a usual, the mtn always does a good job on snow quality and grooming.  They have has issues with broken machines but really nothing that does not happen every year.  The lifts have been a little tough this year, between the weather and some old equipment they have had to scramble at little.  really in my opinion they really dont have the personal they need.  It is tough to find seasonal employees and all ski areas have struggled with this.  I think the Epic pass has added to the crowds, but with the Drifter pass (the 18-28 year old peak pass) going away next season this may equalize things a little?? 

I have not noticed any changes in procedures (making snow, grooming, food service..etc) or the staff this season vs last.  As far as your comment about not throwing money at the parks, you have no idea what you are talking about!!  The parks have been reset more this year then last already, they added a new park and snowmaking on Fool's gold.  Yes the half pipe is not a 18 foot wall pipe but more a fun wavy pipe which opened today.  

As far as closing date really way too early but Easter Sunday is the 12th of April, I expect this will be the last day weather permitting.  With Vail fully taking over May1st I expect them not to push it too far this season.  Your hate for Vail/mtsnow really shows thru get over it and get some facts, and if you cant get over please just dont go there.  I enjoy the place ( along with a few other areas in New England) and love the sport.  

MikeD


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## njdiver85 (Jan 30, 2020)

As someone who skis there 50+ days a year, and mostly on weekends, I will say that the issue is really not the quality of personell working there, but the quantity.  They are extremely understaffed in all areas relative to the skier counts.  They need more lift maintenance staff to get things open quicker after icing and mechanical problems, especially given the issues they've had lately on the Summit Express and various fixed grip lifts.  They need more people to manage the lift lines and get ALL the lifts starting at 8am on busy days.  They need more people in food services to serve people in the restaurants, or get food out on the grab and go counters, and to stay on top of bathrooms and garbage issues.  They need more people at the ticket windows to avoid the early morning lines.  And more workers in plenty of other places as well. And this is not simply me coming to this conclusion.  Just about every "regular" I talk to has the same comments.


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## jaywbigred (Feb 6, 2020)

Wow, came here just to check on current conditions and see if anyone had skied Mt. Snow this week and found...some interesting posts.

Anyone have any first hand accounts of how bad the icing has been?


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## slatham (Feb 6, 2020)

Snow report shows most/all high speed lifts not running. Meanwhile, I looked at Stratton and while the gondi is not running they have several high speed lifts running.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 6, 2020)

slatham said:


> Snow report shows most/all high speed lifts not running. Meanwhile, I looked at Stratton and while the gondi is not running they have several high speed lifts running.



Not the first time this winter that it's played out that way.


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## njdiver85 (Feb 6, 2020)

Heard from a few different people that the number of lift mechanics working at Mount Snow is down significantly this year.   Explains a lot.


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## slatham (Feb 7, 2020)

Wow, the hits keep coming. No sooner does it change to snow when they lose power and shut everything.

"2:40pm Update: Due to a power outage across the mountain, all lifts are closed and will remain closed for the rest of the day."

Anyone sitting in the lodge at Mt Snow should not look at the stratton cams with it dumping and all lifts in sight - even the gondi now - running.


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## TyWebb (Feb 8, 2020)

> 6:32 AM SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2020
> Update 8:40am: Canyon Express, Nitro Express, Sundance, Beartrap, and the Sunbrook lift are on hold as our mechanics finish the de-icing process from Thursday & Friday's ice storm. The Challenger lift is on wind hold.



And only 65% of trails open.  Was thinking of hitting it up Thurs and Friday but we shall see what transpires


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## drjeff (Feb 8, 2020)

TyWebb said:


> And only 65% of trails open.  Was thinking of hitting it up Thurs and Friday but we shall see what transpires


Here's what fell out of the sky the last few days, or atleast what I cleared out of my front walk at my condo about 6PM yesterday when the snow was basically done...

There's about 1-2" of fluff, ontop of maybe 1/2" of ice crust, which is on top of about 2-3" of wet sleet that somewhat resembles a slurpy.

I'm at Bromley now at a race, the crust they have is variable in that in someplaces you break through, and others you stay on top 

My wife who is at Mount Snow today reports similar conditions with some breakable crust, and some nice snow.

Total base building event. Not a powder event in SoVt

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## njdiver85 (Feb 8, 2020)

Long lines were the story today.  First time I've ever seen a line from Heavy Metal (double chair at Carinthia) stretch all the way to and up the side of the Nitro lift!  Looks like Canyon will not open today, though sounds like they are close to being done with it.  Does not appear anything has been started on Summit Express chair, so looking like Sunday will still be a rough start.


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## Pez (Feb 9, 2020)

6:22 AM Sunday, February 9, 2020

Last Updated 8:21AM: The Grand Summit Express and Sunbrook lift are on hold as our crew continues the time consuming process of de-icing. Please make sure to check back here for the most up to date information.


WTF?

clown shoes operation.  was going to head there today.


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## Smellytele (Feb 9, 2020)

Pez said:


> 6:22 AM Sunday, February 9, 2020
> 
> Last Updated 8:21AM: The Grand Summit Express and Sunbrook lift are on hold as our crew continues the time consuming process of de-icing. Please make sure to check back here for the most up to date information.
> 
> ...



Did they run yesterday? If so what would cause them to ice up again? No precip over night but was cold.


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## Pez (Feb 9, 2020)

IDK.  I don't think they've run since the ice storm, which is what 3 days ago?

apparently bromely does the sunday half day for 49 bucks... 1230-4pm. score


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## Jcb890 (Feb 9, 2020)

Mt. Snow's de-icing efforts this season have been nothing short of pathetic. Their communication started off the same, but has gotten a bit better. Still, overall an atrocious job by Mt. Snow this season to be honest.

I am done for the rest of the season with a broken back - happened 1/17 @ Mt. Snow - but will most likely not be back to Mt. Snow as a home mountain after riding at Mt. Snow as a 'home' mountain the last 4 seasons. Considering what has transpired this season with delays and horrible communication of problems they know are ongoing. This seems much worse than in years past to be honest.

People who are buying day tickets while these issues are ongoing are getting completely screwed and it's not fair. Even to season pass holders it is pathetic to show up and deal with the lines due to slow lift openings, etc.


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## slatham (Feb 9, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Did they run yesterday? If so what would cause them to ice up again? No precip over night but was cold.



They did not run, and I saw somewhere (FB?) that they would have all lifts ready to go. From what Dr Jeff and others have reported, it seems a woeful lack of staff. Stratton had  several high speed lifts including the gondola running Thursday afternoon, just hours after icing ended.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 9, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Did they run yesterday? If so what would cause them to ice up again? No precip over night but was cold.


lol, nope. They said they never 'got to' Grand Summit yesterday so it never opened yesterday. Apparently they only de-ice during operating hours? Honestly there's no excuse not to have it de-iced and running this morning. Pathetic effort again by Mt. Snow.


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## Edd (Feb 9, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> I am done for the rest of the season with a broken back - happened 1/17 @ Mt. Snow.



Sorry to hear that man. Good luck with the healing.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 9, 2020)

Jcb890 how did you break your back? & are you going to recover fully? That sounds horrible!


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## Jcb890 (Feb 9, 2020)

Edd said:


> Sorry to hear that man. Good luck with the healing.


Thank you! Working on it, doing PT every day and just trying to work through the pain.



bdfreetuna said:


> Jcb890 how did you break your back? & are you going to recover fully? That sounds horrible!


I honestly don't know. I have no recollection of the crash itself. I know the major issue was speed... but then not sure if I caught an edge or lost my balance coming over a roller that dropped off too steep or what. My brother was with me, but riding a bit in front so he didn't see it. All I remember was being cold and having snow hitting me from the snow guns they had going on the trail (Snowdance). It's an intermediate/easy trail, so not like it was too steep or something.

Concussion - don't remember any of the morning or runs prior (happened at 10 am). I got my memory back later in the day/next day. I do remember the helicopter ride from Brattleboro to Springfield @ ~6pm that day.
Bruised/lacerated spleen with internal bleeding - docs say that's okay and healing fine, so that's good.
Fractured T3-T8 (most of my Thoracic Spine) with T6 & T7 unstable - then blood around the spine and ligament damage around the spine from it as well.

Luckily I didn't need surgery right away. I'm in a brace for 3-6 months with lots of restrictions. Doctors said I should recover and I think I'm pretty lucky to have all my feeling and movement in extremities. I go see the Neurosurgery team next Friday to see how things are healing and hopefully get some updates. Hopefully I'll have a full recovery and no complications.

Right now I'm able to get around and walk and stuff, it's just lots of pain all the time. I was in the hospital/rehab for a week and a half, so it was really great to get home a couple weeks ago.

People keep asking if I'm going to stop/quit snowboarding or get back out next season... but I haven't really given it much thought. Just trying to focus on getting better and back to a normal life - being able to pick up my son, not being in constant pain, etc.

If/when I do get back out there I'll need a bunch of new equipment though... helmet dented a bit, jacket got ripped taking it off/moving me, Ski Patrol/First Aid had to cut off all my other upper layers and my nice Oakley Flight deck prizm lenses got destroyed in the mess also. But that's all replaceable stuff.

I'm more disappointed that we didn't get to have our son get out on the snow that weekend though and now I can't help with that probably the rest of the season. Hopefully my wife will be able to get out and ride again this season and maybe in the Spring I'll be healed enough to drag around the little guy on his Riglet Reel. We'll see I guess.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 9, 2020)

Wow... what a nightmare but thank God you're healing up without major surgery, or worse. Glad you're finding solace in life's real priorities. Guessing your son is pretty young, next year will be just as good to hit the hill.

Good part about skiing with kids (or wife) is you tend to keep the speed down a bit. I bet you will be anyway!

Best wishes on your healing up and enjoying your time as a Dad in the meantime.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 9, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> Wow... what a nightmare but thank God you're healing up without major surgery, or worse. Glad you're finding solace in life's real priorities. Guessing your son is pretty young, next year will be just as good to hit the hill.
> 
> Good part about skiing with kids (or wife) is you tend to keep the speed down a bit. I bet you will be anyway!
> 
> Best wishes on your healing up and enjoying your time as a Dad in the meantime.


Yeah definitely. Hoping I get good news on Friday as well and continue to avoid surgery. Thank you, I appreciate the well-wishes.

Yeah, he's 20 months old. Thankfully he's walking around, but of course still wants to be picked up often. If nothing else we'll drag him around inside the house once I'm healed. But I was hoping to get him out on the snow again this season. We'll see what happens I guess.


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## jaytrem (Feb 9, 2020)

Crazy stuff, feel better man!


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## Pez (Feb 9, 2020)

Oh wow that sounds horrible.  I hope you continue to improve.  


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Jcb890 (Feb 9, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> Crazy stuff, feel better man!


Thanks!



Pez said:


> Oh wow that sounds horrible.  I hope you continue to improve.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


It's not great, lol. Thank you!


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## prsboogie (Feb 9, 2020)

Heal well jcb!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Glenn (Feb 10, 2020)

Wishing you a speedy recovery jcb! Hang in there! What a story. Wow!


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## Whitey (Feb 10, 2020)

Good health, JCB.  You'll be back at it by next season.     Maybe the skiing gods are trying to tell you to put away the snowboard and get some skiis. . .

PS - Is it me or does it seem like a lot of long-time AZers are going down with season-ending injuries this year?


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## cdskier (Feb 10, 2020)

Wow. That's crazy. Best wishes JCB for a full recovery!


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## Jcb890 (Feb 10, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Heal well jcb!!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app


Thank you!



Glenn said:


> Wishing you a speedy recovery jcb! Hang in there! What a story. Wow!


Thank you Glenn!



Whitey said:


> Good health, JCB.  You'll be back at it by next season.     Maybe the skiing gods are trying to tell you to put away the snowboard and get some skiis. . .
> 
> PS - Is it me or does it seem like a lot of long-time AZers are going down with season-ending injuries this year?


Thanks! Honestly, I have/had been thinking about giving skiing a shot. Extra effective edge, etc. But, I don't think I would be very good and the learning curve would be very steep for me.



cdskier said:


> Wow. That's crazy. Best wishes JCB for a full recovery!


Thank you!


----------



## drjeff (Feb 10, 2020)

Glad it seems like you're well on your way to a full recovery JCB! 

It WILL make the eventual day when you get out on the hill, together, with your little on, all the more sweet! 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## urungus (Feb 10, 2020)

Wow that’s quite a brutal story. Hang in there JCB !!


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## jaywbigred (Feb 10, 2020)

Damn Jcb, crazy story and food for thought for me as I tend to ski fast especially on Intermediate terrain and I have a 4.5 year old and 18 month old. I'll be slowing it down a bit after hearing this. Too bad no one saw it happen to be able to explain it.
I had a crash on Plummet this weekend that came out of nowhere, I was conscious the whole time but other than knowing it was initiated by losing all edges on impenetrable ice crust that looked like soft snow (which was all over the place off-trail this weekend and around, here and there, on trail as well), I still have no idea exactly what transpired. Some how I wound up falling on top of my skis and between bouncing around with them and on the concrete ice, I have been pretty sore. 

Anyway, most importantly glad your injuries were recoverable and that it sounds like you will probably be able to get back out there (at a slower speed) next year. Your kiddo will still be plenty young next year, you def. shouldn't worry on that front. My older one has been sliding around since about 18 months and she still barely has the leg muscles to manipulate the skis into a wedge to slow down. Can't turn yet, certainly not anywhere near ready to ride anything but the magic carpet. Some kids develop slowly...point being, you may have a couple of years before your little one is ready to do any meaningful riding, so don't sweat it. 

Here's to continued healing!!! :beer:


----------



## Jcb890 (Feb 10, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Glad it seems like you're well on your way to a full recovery JCB!
> 
> It WILL make the eventual day when you get out on the hill, together, with your little on, all the more sweet!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


I think/hope so. I'll get more info on Friday, but hopefully it'll be good news. I feel like I'm slowly improving each day and have been able to slowly ramp up my PT and sticking with the PT... even though it certainly hurts and isn't fun,

Definitely! Can't wait to get the little guy back out there. We got him on his board at the end of last season (June) up at Killington, but he wasn't even walking yet at that point. So, we figured he'd at least have a little more fun this time with being able to walk and stand now and whatnot. Maybe I'll be able to get him out there on the snow again towards the tail end of this season, we'll see!



urungus said:


> Wow that’s quite a brutal story. Hang in there JCB !!


Thank you, I appreciate it.



jaywbigred said:


> Damn Jcb, crazy story and food for thought for me as I tend to ski fast especially on Intermediate terrain and I have a 4.5 year old and 18 month old. I'll be slowing it down a bit after hearing this. Too bad no one saw it happen to be able to explain it.
> I had a crash on Plummet this weekend that came out of nowhere, I was conscious the whole time but other than knowing it was initiated by losing all edges on impenetrable ice crust that looked like soft snow (which was all over the place off-trail this weekend and around, here and there, on trail as well), I still have no idea exactly what transpired. Some how I wound up falling on top of my skis and between bouncing around with them and on the concrete ice, I have been pretty sore.
> 
> Anyway, most importantly glad your injuries were recoverable and that it sounds like you will probably be able to get back out there (at a slower speed) next year. Your kiddo will still be plenty young next year, you def. shouldn't worry on that front. My older one has been sliding around since about 18 months and she still barely has the leg muscles to manipulate the skis into a wedge to slow down. Can't turn yet, certainly not anywhere near ready to ride anything but the magic carpet. Some kids develop slowly...point being, you may have a couple of years before your little one is ready to do any meaningful riding, so don't sweat it.
> ...


I don't mean it to be a precautionary tale or scare anyone away or anything like that. I know we all like to ride/ski fast. The speed I was going was certainly the reason for my injuries (obviously), but I have definitely gone faster - I know for a fact since I run Trace... which has also led to some 'discussions' with the wife and family in that regard as well.

I guess it's all about picking your spots and knowing the terrain. Perhaps I didn't know the terrain that day or in that spot as well as I thought or good enough. I've ridden that trail so many times, but maybe the rollers were a bit different that day or at least in that spot. I really don't know. That's the one thing I wish I remembered from the crash - how did I do it/how did it happen? I consider myself a strong rider and generally don't fall. But, I suppose it can happen to anyone.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not disappointed about getting my son out there because I think he 'needs' it to be good or anything like that. We realize he's still not really ready to get out there and shred. It was just something my wife and I were looking forward to, something we wanted to share with him. But, we have plenty of fun at home and we've got the little hover cover to pull him around inside the house too if nothing else. Maybe in a couple of months the pain will be gone/a lot less and I'll be able to ride in a car and be cleared for more movement and less restrictions with weight and we can bring him out for some fun on the 'slopes' - aka pulling him around on the snow down by the lifts, lol.


----------



## SLyardsale (Feb 10, 2020)

Heal quick.  Sounds like you have the momentum.


----------



## njdiver85 (Feb 11, 2020)

Anyone know what is going on with Canyon Express?  Was supposed to open late today according to the snow report - never did, and now it looks like it will be down tomorrow as well.  Seems like the hits keep coming.


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## FBGM (Feb 12, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> Anyone know what is going on with Canyon Express?  Was supposed to open late today according to the snow report - never did, and now it looks like it will be down tomorrow as well.  Seems like the hits keep coming.



Vail shaking their head at the piles of dog crap they now own. Crying over the amount of capitol needed to get the place out of the gutter.


----------



## zyk (Feb 13, 2020)

Best wishes and fast recovery JCB!  I slowed down after my last bad injury and than sped back up. Been recently rethinking that decision and find slow times with my niece rewarding as well.


----------



## zyk (Feb 13, 2020)

Anyone got a guess on Mt Snow tomorrow?  Looks liked a mixed mess followed by frigid temps and winds.  Lift holds, decing etc?  Or a very cold powder day?  I'm on fence- I could leave tonight and stay with my brother or stay home and enjoy a nice bourbon a friend just gave me.


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## drjeff (Feb 13, 2020)

zyk said:


> Anyone got a guess on Mt Snow tomorrow?  Looks liked a mixed mess followed by frigid temps and winds.  Lift holds, decing etc?  Or a very cold powder day?  I'm on fence- I could leave tonight and stay with my brother or stay home and enjoy a nice bourbon a friend just gave me.



My friends on the hill now, via their FB pages, aren't reporting any freezing mist, just nice, moderate density snow. Temps look to be peaking right about now for the next few days, still upper 20's on the Summit weather stake cam, and no sign of glazing/moisture on the base elevation cams.

Wind holds may be a factor tomorrow.  Doesn't appear based on what can be seen now that de-icing is likely to be an issue as the radar shows what little is left to come through ahead of the cold front is light and snow


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## zyk (Feb 13, 2020)

drjeff said:


> My friends on the hill now, via their FB pages, aren't reporting any freezing mist, just nice, moderate density snow. Temps look to be peaking right about now for the next few days, still upper 20's on the Summit weather stake cam, and now sign of glazing/moisture on the base elevation cams.
> 
> Wind holds may be a factor tomorrow.  Doesn't appear based on what can be seen now that de-icing is likely to be an issue as the radar shows what little is left to come through ahead of the cold front is light and snow



Thanks for the update!  If I feel brave enough to face the cold I should be there.


----------



## slatham (Feb 13, 2020)

drjeff said:


> My friends on the hill now, via their FB pages, aren't reporting any freezing mist, just nice, moderate density snow. Temps look to be peaking right about now for the next few days, still upper 20's on the Summit weather stake cam, and no sign of glazing/moisture on the base elevation cams.
> 
> Wind holds may be a factor tomorrow.  Doesn't appear based on what can be seen now that de-icing is likely to be an issue as the radar shows what little is left to come through ahead of the cold front is light and snow



This storm had little icing risk, and any risk was for minor amounts, way less than last week. From here on out they should be clear of ice. Cold on the other hand is coming.


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## Edd (Feb 13, 2020)

I’ve been following this guy’s videos for awhile. Mostly, he rides Colorado but he’s hitting the east coast and started at Mt Snow. He’s making the trees look pretty good. 

https://youtu.be/DsWE-5wW1hg


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## Scruffy (Feb 13, 2020)

Was there this week. Two powder days, Monday and today. Today, first tracks off the North side--sweet. Trees were nice.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 14, 2020)

SLyardsale said:


> Heal quick.  Sounds like you have the momentum.





zyk said:


> Best wishes and fast recovery JCB!  I slowed down after my last bad injury and than sped back up. Been recently rethinking that decision and find slow times with my niece rewarding as well.


Thanks folks!
I do ride slower when with my wife and enjoy it. However, she was taking that day off and I was riding with my brother.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 14, 2020)

F*ck me... just got back from neurosurgery apt. and need to have surgery on my back/spine.
Back to square one/ground zero? I don't know. Doctor says rather than being in pain for 6 months and it not healing correctly I should be recovered ~4 weeks after surgery and hopefully back to normal. Not sure when I can be weight bearing yet, etc. Still waiting on follow-up apts. to be scheduled and to hear back today... sounds like surgery next week maybe. Saw the photos from the CT Scan... pretty obvious how messed up my back and those few vertebrae are.

Not going to lie, I'm pretty bummed today.


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## Edd (Feb 14, 2020)

Being hurt friggin sucks and losing half a ski season makes it worse. 

There’s a hundred stories like this on the board. I blew my knee in January about 10 years ago and lost the season. 

The back is even worse. Sorry that it’s going crappy man. You’ll get through it. Think about next season. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## ScottySkis (Feb 14, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> F*ck me... just got back from neurosurgery apt. and need to have surgery on my back/spine.
> Back to square one/ground zero? I don't know. Doctor says rather than being in pain for 6 months and it not healing correctly I should be recovered ~4 weeks after surgery and hopefully back to normal. Not sure when I can be weight bearing yet, etc. Still waiting on follow-up apts. to be scheduled and to hear back today... sounds like surgery next week maybe. Saw the photos from the CT Scan... pretty obvious how messed up my back and those few vertebrae are.
> 
> Not going to lie, I'm pretty bummed today.



So sorry too hear that.
My back doctor told me that also but I choose cortizon shot which his huge help for me
But definitely not in same position as u
I have 2 slipped disc
My aunt("2 nd mom &#55357;&#56845 and uncle where all that about back surgery
And they also choose cortizon shot


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## mbedle (Feb 14, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> F*ck me... just got back from neurosurgery apt. and need to have surgery on my back/spine.
> Back to square one/ground zero? I don't know. Doctor says rather than being in pain for 6 months and it not healing correctly I should be recovered ~4 weeks after surgery and hopefully back to normal. Not sure when I can be weight bearing yet, etc. Still waiting on follow-up apts. to be scheduled and to hear back today... sounds like surgery next week maybe. Saw the photos from the CT Scan... pretty obvious how messed up my back and those few vertebrae are.
> 
> Not going to lie, I'm pretty bummed today.



Really sorry to hear that, good news is hopefully you will heal quicker and be ready to hit it hard next season.


----------



## Scruffy (Feb 14, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> F*ck me... just got back from neurosurgery apt. and need to have surgery on my back/spine.
> Back to square one/ground zero? I don't know. Doctor says rather than being in pain for 6 months and it not healing correctly I should be recovered ~4 weeks after surgery and hopefully back to normal. Not sure when I can be weight bearing yet, etc. Still waiting on follow-up apts. to be scheduled and to hear back today... sounds like surgery next week maybe. Saw the photos from the CT Scan... pretty obvious how messed up my back and those few vertebrae are.
> 
> Not going to lie, I'm pretty bummed today.



Bummer, but at least you have a plan for full recovery. Heal quickly.


----------



## Dickc (Feb 14, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> F*ck me... just got back from neurosurgery apt. and need to have surgery on my back/spine.
> Back to square one/ground zero? I don't know. Doctor says rather than being in pain for 6 months and it not healing correctly I should be recovered ~4 weeks after surgery and hopefully back to normal. Not sure when I can be weight bearing yet, etc. Still waiting on follow-up apts. to be scheduled and to hear back today... sounds like surgery next week maybe. Saw the photos from the CT Scan... pretty obvious how messed up my back and those few vertebrae are.
> 
> Not going to lie, I'm pretty bummed today.



This sucks, but if he is recommending it, you must have really F***ed things up back there.  I have degenerative disk disease, and while I had a great 35 year run after my first back surgery, its just one thing after another now.  Do exactly what the doc tells you, do all the PT, and try to do the take home exercises.  Once free of the medical world, find a place that does beginner yoga. I should have done that years ago, but I let life get in the way.  I know a few people who have done that after a first surgery, and they swear by it.  If I can get though with my problems, I am definitely going to find some!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 14, 2020)

Dickc said:


> This sucks, but if he is recommending it, you must have really F***ed things up back there.  I have degenerative disk disease, and while I had a great 35 year run after my first back surgery, its just one thing after another now.  Do exactly what the doc tells you, do all the PT, and try to do the take home exercises.  Once free of the medical world, find a place that does beginner yoga. I should have done that years ago, but I let life get in the way.  I know a few people who have done that after a first surgery, and they swear by it.  If I can get though with my problems, I am definitely going to find some!


Sean Vigue on YouTube is a good place to start for all levels of Yoga.  I'm a big fan

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## deadheadskier (Feb 14, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> F*ck me... just got back from neurosurgery apt. and need to have surgery on my back/spine.
> Back to square one/ground zero? I don't know. Doctor says rather than being in pain for 6 months and it not healing correctly I should be recovered ~4 weeks after surgery and hopefully back to normal. Not sure when I can be weight bearing yet, etc. Still waiting on follow-up apts. to be scheduled and to hear back today... sounds like surgery next week maybe. Saw the photos from the CT Scan... pretty obvious how messed up my back and those few vertebrae are.
> 
> Not going to lie, I'm pretty bummed today.


Kyphoplasty?

The results from that are usually very favorable.   Also a blessing your injury occurred in the Thoracic vs Cervical or Lumbar.  Injuries in those areas tend to have greater long term complications.

Good luck.  May your healing be Swift and complete 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## JimG. (Feb 15, 2020)

I've wrecked the tibia in my left leg and destroyed my right tibial plateau and shredded the ACL and PCL in my right knee. All fixed good as new by the good doctors at Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. Still have the metal in both legs.

The worst part of those ordeals was crutch time which threw my back completely out of whack. So I can empathize with your situation. Yoga is a great therapy tool especially to restore flexibility. Lot's of crunches and core exercises are important too. And while some think Chiropractors are ineffective mine was central to restoring my back health.

Stay positive, I know that's hard to do sometimes. And take your physical therapy very seriously. My physical therapist was always worried I was working too hard.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 16, 2020)

As much as there certainly have been some operational issues/challenges multiple times this season, this weekend so far atleast, has been very good and smooth from an ops standpoint.

Crowds are bigger today, and building still, but with basically the entire mountain open and all the lifts spinning and comfortable temps, it seems reasonable

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## drjeff (Feb 16, 2020)

drjeff said:


> As much as there certainly have been some operational issues/challenges multiple times this season, this weekend so far atleast, has been very good and smooth from an ops standpoint.
> 
> Crowds are bigger today, and building still, but with basically the entire mountain open and all the lifts spinning and comfortable temps, it seems reasonable
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


Even the burst water pipe in the Main base lodge about 1 that caused the fire alarm to go off and the base lodge to be evacuated for a short time went smoothy

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Edd (Feb 16, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Even the burst water pipe in the Main base lodge about 1 that caused the fire alarm to go off and the base lodge to be evacuated for a short time went smoothy
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Oh, yeah, the customers evacuating the base lodge must have been extremely pleased [emoji3].


----------



## Jcb890 (Feb 17, 2020)

Edd said:


> Being hurt friggin sucks and losing half a ski season makes it worse.
> 
> There’s a hundred stories like this on the board. I blew my knee in January about 10 years ago and lost the season.
> 
> ...


I think I got in ~10 days this season and it had been a pretty good season up to that point. I wouldn't say I got my money's worth from the Peak Pass, but at least it wasn't something like the 1st or 2nd time out I guess. My injuries might also not allow my wife to go riding again this season... but I'm hoping she'll be able to get back out again. We'll see I guess what happens after surgery and with my recovery since riding in a car 2+ hours right now is out of the question.



ScottySkis said:


> So sorry too hear that.
> My back doctor told me that also but I choose cortizon shot which his huge help for me
> But definitely not in same position as u
> I have 2 slipped disc
> ...


I'm happy to hear the cortizone shot worked/helps you out. My damage is pretty bad I guess.



mbedle said:


> Really sorry to hear that, good news is hopefully you will heal quicker and be ready to hit it hard next season.


That seems like the plan. Surgery should lead to a quicker/better recovery. If I don't, I'll be in pain 6 months while it all heals and it won't heal correctly causing future problems.



Scruffy said:


> Bummer, but at least you have a plan for full recovery. Heal quickly.


Thank you!



Dickc said:


> This sucks, but if he is recommending it, you must have really F***ed things up back there.  I have degenerative disk disease, and while I had a great 35 year run after my first back surgery, its just one thing after another now.  Do exactly what the doc tells you, do all the PT, and try to do the take home exercises.  Once free of the medical world, find a place that does beginner yoga. I should have done that years ago, but I let life get in the way.  I know a few people who have done that after a first surgery, and they swear by it.  If I can get though with my problems, I am definitely going to find some!


Yeah, he showed me the images from the original CT scan and said if I had come to him first he would have suggested surgery to begin with. I have a couple of vertebrae that are a bit 'crunched' (10mm vs. 21mm) and one or two where the angle between the vertebrae is completely f'd. So, that's kind of causing me to naturally hunch over a bit already.

Great point about the yoga. I'll have to look into that. I had been doing all of the PT daily (2x/day) that was given to me. But, stopped after the diagnosis last week. I'll certainly start back up once I'm able to after surgery. I want to have my movement and abilities back! (no pun intended)



deadheadskier said:


> Sean Vigue on YouTube is a good place to start for all levels of Yoga.  I'm a big fan
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


Thanks for the tip!



deadheadskier said:


> Kyphoplasty?
> 
> The results from that are usually very favorable.   Also a blessing your injury occurred in the Thoracic vs Cervical or Lumbar.  Injuries in those areas tend to have greater long term complications.
> 
> ...


That may be included, I have to ask more questions over the next couple of days. Essentially I'll wind up with a rod down each side of the spine with screws through the vertebrae to help them heal/strengthen. Not completely sure of the length/# of vertebrae involved yet, doctor needs more/updated CT scans. But, I guess it's as minimally invasive as it gets and I'll have some small-ish slits in my back. I don't really care about scaring, but should be a better/quicker recovery than the whole back being opened up... gross. I think overall I'm pretty 'lucky' even though this is all still quite shitty honestly. I'm able to walk, move all my extremities, etc. so I'm trying to think positive and that I'm lucky to not have more issues.

Thank you for the well-wishes, I appreciate it.



JimG. said:


> I've wrecked the tibia in my left leg and destroyed my right tibial plateau and shredded the ACL and PCL in my right knee. All fixed good as new by the good doctors at Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. Still have the metal in both legs.
> 
> The worst part of those ordeals was crutch time which threw my back completely out of whack. So I can empathize with your situation. Yoga is a great therapy tool especially to restore flexibility. Lot's of crunches and core exercises are important too. And while some think Chiropractors are ineffective mine was central to restoring my back health.
> 
> Stay positive, I know that's hard to do sometimes. And take your physical therapy very seriously. My physical therapist was always worried I was working too hard.


Thank you! Trying to stay positive all the time. I had been doing good with my PT, even though it's painful. I'll get back at it and hit the PT hard once I'm able to. Hoping I can come home after the hospital and do out-patient PT at home as opposed to going back to rehab after surgery. But, we'll see.


----------



## sugarbushskier (Feb 18, 2020)

Question for all you Mt Snow regulars - Thinking of heading up tomorrow (Wednesday) for the day, but according to weather.com see winds from WNW are forecasted to be in the 20-30 mph range.  I understand there are a lot of variables here, but does anyone know if this wind direction and speed normally causes lift holds and if so which ones? I'm sure there will also be higher gusts so direction and impact to lifts is my main concern.

Thanks in advance.


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2020)

sugarbushskier said:


> Question for all you Mt Snow regulars - Thinking of heading up tomorrow (Wednesday) for the day, but according to weather.com see winds from WNW are forecasted to be in the 20-30 mph range.  I understand there are a lot of variables here, but does anyone know if this wind direction and speed normally causes lift holds and if so which ones? I'm sure there will also be higher gusts so direction and impact to lifts is my main concern.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Honestly, when I see 20-30mph wind speed forecasts, I don't even think twice about wind holds for my home hill.  Until the number gets to 40 and above, unless its out of the South and Southwest, it's rarely an issue.

Additionally, there's a very good FB group, Northeast Skiology, where they put up maps when wind holds might be an issue, and they're usually fairly accurate from what I have experienced this season, and for tomorrow, the have Mount Snow in the low risk category, with the areas in the high risk being across far Northern NY and VT


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## sugarbushskier (Feb 18, 2020)

Thanks for the intel.  Think I'm going to chance it and ski what's available. Who knows, if it stays cold enough, this storm could be mostly snow!


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## njdiver85 (Feb 18, 2020)

drjeff said:


> there's a very good FB group, Northeast Skiology, where they put up maps when wind holds might be an issue, and they're usually fairly accurate from what I have experienced this season, and for tomorrow, the have Mount Snow in the low risk category, with the areas in the high risk being across far Northern NY and VT



Looks like they now have Mount Snow as "high risk" :sad:


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## icecoast1 (Feb 18, 2020)

sugarbushskier said:


> Thanks for the intel.  Think I'm going to chance it and ski what's available. Who knows, if it stays cold enough, this storm could be mostly snow!



Magic is not that far up the road and will almost certainly have summit access tomorrow


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## 180 (Feb 18, 2020)

Anyplace to get mt snow ticket deals?


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## ScottySkis (Feb 18, 2020)

180 said:


> Anyplace to get mt snow ticket deals?



Funny
Maybe liftopia


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## njdiver85 (Feb 18, 2020)

Looks like 20mph winds with gusts up to 45 tomorrow.  Any predictions on what lifts will be running?


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## chuckstah (Feb 18, 2020)

180 said:


> Anyplace to get mt snow ticket deals?


Here ya go [emoji16]. And the rest of the east coast
https://store.mountsnow.com/purchase-path/product-details/42?date=2020-03-17


Sent from my moto e5 cruise using AlpineZone mobile app


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## FBGM (Feb 18, 2020)

180 said:


> Anyplace to get mt snow ticket deals?



 A Quick OTPHJ to One of the MT Snow fan boys on here might get ya discount. Or a sticky hand.


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## Method9455 (Feb 20, 2020)

180 said:


> Anyplace to get mt snow ticket deals?



REI has them for $72, which is about the same price as an advance weekend ticket but you have date flexibility which comes in handy. 

https://www.rei.com/product/119862/mount-snow-anytime-adult-lift-ticket


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## njdiver85 (Feb 23, 2020)

Another epic fail at Mount Snow today!  Summit Express went down at 10:45am and now closed for the day. Bluebird starting having issues as well with lots of stoppages and lift maintenance scrambling between the two lifts.   Took me 45min to get up to the Summit.  Hero snow conditions though.


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## sull1102 (Feb 23, 2020)

The downtime numbers on the Grand Summit over the last four or five years are pretty staggering. I don’t have sources on the inside so to speak but I’m so curious if they have been told by Poma or whoever that the numerous repairs they’ve done in that time span were just putting lipstick on a pig. 

It’ll never happen, but grabbing the Barnstormer and moving it to replace Canyon(it’s about 50ft shorter, but 100ft more vert). It might just pulled some crowds off Bluebird. 


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## Griswold (Feb 23, 2020)

Method9455 said:


> REI has them for $72, which is about the same price as an advance weekend ticket but you have date flexibility which comes in handy.
> 
> https://www.rei.com/product/119862/mount-snow-anytime-adult-lift-ticket



Do you get an e-ticket right away when buying from REI?  Was going to get one last minute but it was looking like they physically mail a ticket.  Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## TyWebb (Feb 24, 2020)

Griswold said:


> Do you get an e-ticket right away when buying from REI?  Was going to get one last minute but it was looking like they physically mail a ticket.  Thanks


I'm not sure abt Mt Snow but I purchased Killington Tix ($89) a couple of weeks ago from their store in Princeton.  Received the electronic tix right from the REI store, woke up next AM and right to the slopes.  I'd assume Mt Snow is the same


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## Method9455 (Feb 24, 2020)

Griswold said:


> Do you get an e-ticket right away when buying from REI?  Was going to get one last minute but it was looking like they physically mail a ticket.  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



No e-ticket, it's a physical ticket and then you have to go to a window.


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## Newpylong (Feb 24, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> The downtime numbers on the Grand Summit over the last four or five years are pretty staggering. I don’t have sources on the inside so to speak but I’m so curious if they have been told by Poma or whoever that the numerous repairs they’ve done in that time span were just putting lipstick on a pig.
> 
> It’ll never happen, but grabbing the Barnstormer and moving it to replace Canyon(it’s about 50ft shorter, but 100ft more vert). It might just pulled some crowds off Bluebird.
> 
> ...



Don't you think replacing Nitro with it would be a wiser choice? That Main Face already has serious uphill capacity, assuming a reliable GSE.


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## drjeff (Feb 25, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Don't you think replacing Nitro with it would be a wiser choice? That Main Face already has serious uphill capacity, assuming a reliable GSE.



The reality is, especially if the new "normal" crowds are going to be exactly that, the new normal, in the coming years, and presuming that Vail wants to follow through with Mount Snow's/Peak's plan to expand the snowmaking to essentially 100%, then one could make the case that when the time for replacement/upgrades come for various core lifts at Mount Snow, that upgrading Nitro and Canyon to HS6's, upgrading Heavy Metal to a FG4, and I will even throw it out there that the GSE could even be  upgraded to a HS6, isn't that far fetched an idea.  Personally Id also love to see them upgrade the Sundance Triple to a HSQ so that folks lapping either Long John/Deer Run or the entire Uncle's/Ridge/Hop/Shootout/South Bowl section of the mountain could do so without having to go back to the main base.

Add in the probably only a matter of time upgrade of the Sunbrook Quad to some type of highspeed lift, and my version of ski area management "arm chair quarterbacking" of Mount Snow's "needs" easily just spent probably in the neighborhood of $40 million or so....

All across the ski industry, as many of the lifts, both highspeed and fixed grips that were put up in the late 80's/early 90's expansion boom time near 40 years of service, there's going to be some interesting decisions to make about when and how lifts will be replaced, and if the mountain chooses to use this as a time to re think some of their trail layouts and pod designs to reflect modern use....


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## Smellytele (Feb 25, 2020)

drjeff said:


> The reality is, especially if the new "normal" crowds are going to be exactly that, the new normal, in the coming years, and presuming that Vail wants to follow through with Mount Snow's/Peak's plan to expand the snowmaking to essentially 100%, then one could make the case that when the time for replacement/upgrades come for various core lifts at Mount Snow, that upgrading Nitro and Canyon to HS6's, upgrading Heavy Metal to a FG4, and I will even throw it out there that the GSE could even be  upgraded to a HS6, isn't that far fetched an idea.  Personally Id also love to see them upgrade the Sundance Triple to a HSQ so that folks lapping either Long John/Deer Run or the entire Uncle's/Ridge/Hop/Shootout/South Bowl section of the mountain could do so without having to go back to the main base.
> 
> Add in the probably only a matter of time upgrade of the Sunbrook Quad to some type of highspeed lift, and my version of ski area management "arm chair quarterbacking" of Mount Snow's "needs" easily just spent probably in the neighborhood of $40 million or so....
> 
> All across the ski industry, as many of the lifts, both highspeed and fixed grips that were put up in the late 80's/early 90's expansion boom time near 40 years of service, there's going to be some interesting decisions to make about when and how lifts will be replaced, and if the mountain chooses to use this as a time to re think some of their trail layouts and pod designs to reflect modern use....



Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now. 
Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.


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## njdiver85 (Feb 25, 2020)

I agree - I don't think Mount Snow trails could handle additional uphill capacity, unless you double ski patrol for all the accidents that will take place.  Even on the busiest days, I think things are well balanced when most trails are open (wait times, lift ride length, skiers on trail), assuming they have all lifts running, which is a big assumption.  Only exception is Sundance Triple, which would be better with less chairs moving at a higher speed.

Further, I think the ride time length for Sunbrook quad is fine, but the lift should be upgraded to something that novices can get on and off easily.  In it's current state, people get knocked down getting on it, or fall getting off the steep and often icy exit ramp, and so it stops often and that increases ride length.


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## Pez (Feb 25, 2020)

In a perfect world Vail would buy haystack and run that under the epic pass.  Just having a nearby place would help alleviate crowds at snow.  

That will probably never happen. 

I’ve stated here in the past I’m against a HSQ on sunbrook but I think it’s inevitable at this point.  Love a small lodge at the base though.  Relax get a snack type place.  



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## drjeff (Feb 25, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
> Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone





njdiver85 said:


> I agree - I don't think Mount Snow trails could handle additional uphill capacity, unless you double ski patrol for all the accidents that will take place.  Even on the busiest days, I think things are well balanced when most trails are open (wait times, lift ride length, skiers on trail), assuming they have all lifts running, which is a big assumption.  Only exception is Sundance Triple, which would be better with less chairs moving at a higher speed.
> 
> Further, I think the ride time length for Sunbrook quad is fine, but the lift should be upgraded to something that novices can get on and off easily.  In it's current state, people get knocked down getting on it, or fall getting off the steep and often icy exit ramp, and so it stops often and that increases ride length.



When the terrain is limited, yup, it gets crowded with it's current capacity.  When you have basically every trail open on the main face, something that would become more often the case for more of the season with a snowmaking expansion, there's plenty of acres of quiet terrain available for added bodies being brought uphill, especially if you get off of the core trails.

Totally agree that some type of small lodge/yurt down in Sunbrook, when a lift upgrade happens would be a GOOD thing.

The Haystack thing, well I guess we'll know within about a month or so if Vail has any interest in it, when the bidding window closes....


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## icecoast1 (Feb 25, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
> Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



High speed lifts dont have to mean increased uphill capacity depending on chair count and spacing


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## drjeff (Feb 25, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Think what a shit show the trails will be then with all that uphill compacity. Bad enough now.
> Should go the other way and cut capacity. People will stop going and crowds will not be as prevalent after a few years.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Exactly!

A highspeed quad and a fixed grip quad, that both load at 6 second intervals, will have the exact same hourly capacity

The ride time will be different, the crowds that a high speed lift attracts vs a fixed grip lift may be different, but the capacity would be the same.

Heck, if Mount Snow wanted to increase the capacity out of the base, the thing they could do, without making major changes, is purchase more chairs for the Bluebird, as they chose to go with 9 second spacing over the more standard 6 second spacing for both the ability to control capacity a bit and in theory make it "easier" for the public to load/unload from it...



icecoast1 said:


> High speed lifts dont have to mean increased uphill capacity depending on chair count and spacing


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## machski (Feb 25, 2020)

sull1102 said:


> The downtime numbers on the Grand Summit over the last four or five years are pretty staggering. I don’t have sources on the inside so to speak but I’m so curious if they have been told by Poma or whoever that the numerous repairs they’ve done in that time span were just putting lipstick on a pig.
> 
> It’ll never happen, but grabbing the Barnstormer and moving it to replace Canyon(it’s about 50ft shorter, but 100ft more vert). It might just pulled some crowds off Bluebird.
> 
> ...


The "Yan-omas" are a disaster.  Not sure what Poma did when they retrofitted all of them in the East, but seems like we got the short stock on those (because all Yan HSQ's had to be retrofitted over 1 summer, Poma took the East, Dopp mostly took the west and I've seen at least one at DV that got retrofitted with pre merger Garaventa grips).  The Dopps seem to run much better out west.  Barker is a mess at Sunday River, the new racing T-Bar moves faster now!  Killington has seemingly made out better, may help they have four of the things in their lift fleet.

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## Method9455 (Feb 26, 2020)

drjeff said:


> The reality is, especially if the new "normal" crowds are going to be exactly that, the new normal, in the coming years, and presuming that Vail wants to follow through with Mount Snow's/Peak's plan to expand the snowmaking to essentially 100%, then one could make the case that when the time for replacement/upgrades come for various core lifts at Mount Snow, that upgrading Nitro and Canyon to HS6's, upgrading Heavy Metal to a FG4, and I will even throw it out there that the GSE could even be  upgraded to a HS6, isn't that far fetched an idea.  Personally Id also love to see them upgrade the Sundance Triple to a HSQ so that folks lapping either Long John/Deer Run or the entire Uncle's/Ridge/Hop/Shootout/South Bowl section of the mountain could do so without having to go back to the main base.
> 
> Add in the probably only a matter of time upgrade of the Sunbrook Quad to some type of highspeed lift, and my version of ski area management "arm chair quarterbacking" of Mount Snow's "needs" easily just spent probably in the neighborhood of $40 million or so....
> 
> All across the ski industry, as many of the lifts, both highspeed and fixed grips that were put up in the late 80's/early 90's expansion boom time near 40 years of service, there's going to be some interesting decisions to make about when and how lifts will be replaced, and if the mountain chooses to use this as a time to re think some of their trail layouts and pod designs to reflect modern use....



IMO when Sundance and Ego Alley get replaced they should just buy fixed grip quads. Mount Snow seems more susceptible to wind holds than most VT mountains and they also get more frequent ice storms. They need fallback lifts on the main face. Maybe Ego Alley deserves to be a fixed grip + loading carpet, I think that's the optimal cost / capacity / reliability / ride time tradeoff, but it gets used most when the high speeds are down. I'm not sure when those need to get replaced though, they run so few hours each season it's hard to say how many more years they will last. 

I think the next lift to get replaced will be Sunbrook, and that's probably going to be high speed. A faster lift would draw more people to the least crowded face of the mountain. 

I'm sure they'll eventually replace the Grand Summit Express. That has to be one of the least reliable major lifts in the east. But they're not actually maxing out the Bluebird aside from Saturdays. It's probably better overall to replace a bunch of the secondary lifts than buy another big HS6.


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## xlr8r (Feb 26, 2020)

When Grand Summit is finally replaced, I would like to see it and Ego Alley replaced with one lift, a HSQ, on the Grand Summit alignment but have it shortened to terminate where Ego currently does.  Then also replace Sundance with a HSQ on a new alignment starting at the same location, going up to the summit terminating where Grand Summit does today.


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## Newpylong (Feb 27, 2020)

Unless the Vail shakeup changes thing, they've stated on record over and over Ego, or another fixed grip lift in its location will never be removed. Without a fixed grip option on the Main Face and Carinthia they are essentially shutdown during icing events. They have so many Yan parts and that thing runs so little hours, I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.

I like your idea but extending Sundance to the summit would be a permitting challenge, that would be a substantial amount of cutting for a new liftline between South Ridge and Ego. The Sundance pod is highly underutilized because the lift barely runs and lack of snowmaking over there, and going to the summit with the lift would not really fix that as those trails are not easily accessible from the summit without going down one of the Johns. I think what happens all depends on what they plan to do with the Sundance base area. I know the last iteration of the Master Plan has the base lodge coming out, a new HSQ starting down by the parking lot and ending where Tumbleweed does now essentially. The Seasons Double will be removed as well. Once snowmaking goes in on Hop and Shootout, Sundance pod becomes more valuable and it makes sense to look at what to do with the lift. Does the same setup make sense (with two HSQ replacements), or going back to 1 HSQ (like Sundance used to be), or something else? Who knows... I personally think a carpet loading FGQ to replace Tumbleweed and a HSQ to replace Sundance (both as is) makes the most sense in the current base area setup.


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## drjeff (Mar 31, 2020)

https://www.saminfo.com/headline-news/9538-leadership-changes-in-vail-resorts-eastern-region

Queue up the "Happy Dance" from FGBM

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## prsboogie (Mar 31, 2020)

So how will this effect Snow?

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## drjeff (Mar 31, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> So how will this effect Snow?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using AlpineZone mobile app


Aside from saying that they'll once again have a female GM, not sure....

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## Newpylong (Apr 1, 2020)

She's been around Vail for a while and will help Snow get into their system more.

She knows her stuff and cares about the guest experience. 

That's what I got on that.


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## prsboogie (Apr 1, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> She's been around Vail for a while and will help Snow get into their system more.
> 
> She knows her stuff and cares about the guest experience.
> 
> That's what I got on that.


I would have to agree with the guest experience statement if what I experienced a Sunapee is a reflection of her vision. This past season the staff at Sunapee was extremely welcoming and friendly. Snow could definitely benefit from some of that.

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## FBGM (Apr 1, 2020)

drjeff said:


> https://www.saminfo.com/headline-news/9538-leadership-changes-in-vail-resorts-eastern-region
> 
> Queue up the "Happy Dance" from FGBM
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



I told ya so...just saying. 

But for real, Elia was the most cancerous manager, ass hole, ego driven person I have ever been around. He does not fit the Vail mold, and I am glad they got rid of him. He will probably weasel his way into another ski area - sorry for that ski area.


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## drjeff (Apr 1, 2020)

And just like other Vail resorts, the "Closed to all uphill traffic" signs have gone up

Good move, regardless of who made it these days! 

https://www.dvalnews.com/news/mount...700t-3-jzyx_trupnbhlg-62OnzCNwbvl_mgpiCrUCSfw


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## Pez (Apr 1, 2020)

God I'm really starting to hate these huge corporations


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## prsboogie (Apr 1, 2020)

Pez said:


> God I'm really starting to hate these huge corporations


Why is that? Because they are looking out for the betterment of the general public? Following the recommendations of CDC and Gov? God forbid.

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## icecoast1 (Apr 1, 2020)

Pez said:


> God I'm really starting to hate these huge corporations



They have no choice.  Some  People are too stupid to follow basic rules, suggestions and use common sense


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## Pez (Apr 1, 2020)

no, not with this.  Just in general.  Everything is just getting swallowed up by these big entities.


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## prsboogie (Apr 1, 2020)

Pez said:


> no, not with this.  Just in general.  Everything is just getting swallowed up by these big entities.


[emoji1303]

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## sull1102 (Apr 1, 2020)

This will be very interesting for Snow I suspect. The author of that article certainly didn’t seem very hyped about the new GM with the line about being at Sunapee for less than five months. Erik had been at Snow for some time under Kelly Pawlak(who was awesome). I’m surprised they didn’t move someone from Okemo down rt 100. 


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## drjeff (Apr 9, 2020)

Sad news again for the Mount Snow community.

The twin brother of Cleon Boyd, Leon, passed away today from COVID-19, less than a week after his brother passed away from COVID-19.

Cleon was featured in this October '18 episode of their We Love Snow segments. His twin brother Leon also spent many an hour in the operators seat of cat on the hill as well.

https://youtu.be/LJQdIff2klo

Considering that the family tended not to stray far from the area and their family farm which is a long-standing staple in the region for generations, preventing tragic events like has happened to the Boyd family is exactly why mountains closed to all uphill traffic to keep folks from traveling to the region and bringing the virus with them....

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## laxski (Apr 10, 2020)

Just terrible news for the family. As a 20 year property owner in the area would love to get up there but realize the importance of staying put.


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## jaytrem (Apr 10, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Sad news again for the Mount Snow community.
> 
> The twin brother of Cleon Boyd, Leon, passed away today from COVID-19, less than a week after his brother passed away from COVID-19.



A friend sent me a text about that.  I was really hoping she was mistaken, apparently not.  Very sad.  I hope the rest of the family gets through it okay.  With them and that NJ family losing 4 people, it makes you wonder how much genetics play a role.


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## bluebird (Jun 6, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Sad news again for the Mount Snow community.
> 
> The twin brother of Cleon Boyd, Leon, passed away today from COVID-19, less than a week after his brother passed away from COVID-19.
> 
> ...


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## MikeDeJ (Jun 9, 2020)

What happened to the Boyd's was terrible, my son know the grandson he also had COVID and did recover.

On another side of this what is going on at Mt Snow or the rest of the Vail properties for summer ops???   The websites have not been updated since March and Facebook is silent?  I don't see any maintenance at the mountain of any kind.  Im at the point they are not going to operate this summer but the winter maintenance still needs to be done, they did not even finish moving the groomers or all the hoses, it is like they fell off the face of the earth!!!!  Not sure if it is COVID or money problems or a combo of both.

MikeD


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## Newpylong (Jun 9, 2020)

All hourly employees at Vail owned mountains were laid off in April - salaried employees were given 20% reductions in pay. They are currently in a hiring freeze even for departmental managers, of which many of the mountain's are lacking currently. Whatever staff is left is doing what routine maintenance they can, but obviously that is slow going.


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## drjeff (Jun 9, 2020)

Pretty much, based on posts of friends of mine who are residents in the area, they're maintaining the golf course (targeting a late June opening) and FWIW someone on I believe it was Ski The East's FB page yesterday showed sister resort, Okemo, with both of their lower quads out of the base area running yesterday with what looked like mountain ops folks doing some work on them.

I would guess that based on the Epic By Nature podcast that Rob Katz, Vail Resort's CEO, put out a few weeks ago about the intentions for something resembling "normal" Summer Ops plans at all of their properties beginning in late June, that you'll start to see them coming out of their hiring freeze and get some employees back for a gear up for Summer ops which likely will also involve the finishing up of the shut down procedures from the Winter and the start of the "regular" off season maintenance, especially now that VT has eased, and in some cases eliminated, it's 14 day mandatory quarantine, for those traveling to VT


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## icecoast1 (Jun 9, 2020)

drjeff said:


> , especially now that VT has eased, and in some cases eliminated, it's 14 day mandatory quarantine, for those traveling to VT




With the exception of some rural counties in NY and NE, that 14 day quarantine is still in place.  The bulk of the out of staters are still in places that VT says have to quarantine and probably wont meet the standards to not have to do that any time soon unless the state decides to change them


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## cdskier (Jun 9, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> With the exception of some rural counties in NY and NE, that 14 day quarantine is still in place.  The bulk of the out of staters are still in places that VT says have to quarantine and probably wont meet the standards to not have to do that any time soon unless the state decides to change them



The fact that NJ and NY are more "open" than VT says a lot about VT's stance at this point. I agreed with VT's position in the beginning, but now it is just ridiculous.


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## njdiver85 (Jun 9, 2020)

The economic situation in Vermont was pretty bad before all this started.  The longer VT discourages visitors and second homeowners from dumping money into their economy, the more people will go elsewhere to states more welcoming - both short term and longer term. Really surprised small businesses haven't pushed harder for a broader reopening.


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## chuckstah (Jun 9, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> The economic situation in Vermont was pretty bad before all this started.  The longer VT discourages visitors and second homeowners from dumping money into their economy, the more people will go elsewhere to states more welcoming - both short term and longer term. Really surprised small businesses haven't pushed harder for a broader reopening.


That's how I feel. If VT doesn't want my business now, they won't get it later. I plan to spend the vast majority of my limited ski budget in my home state next season. No reason to plan VT trips knowing the state could close for outsider's at any time.  There's plenty of skiing in NH for a full season. 

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## Edd (Jun 9, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> With the exception of some rural counties in NY and NE, that 14 day quarantine is still in place.  The bulk of the out of staters are still in places that VT says have to quarantine and probably wont meet the standards to not have to do that any time soon unless the state decides to change them



Visitors will simply go there and break the rules, I assume. Is it somehow being enforced?


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## deadheadskier (Jun 9, 2020)

To be fair, NH isn't all that much better than VT in welcoming visitors right now.  My folks are looking to book a house on Winnipesaukee for a week in September.  As of today, NH is still requesting visitors who enter the state to have self quarantined for 14 days before arrival.  Despite me telling them that my observations visiting our marina on the lake the past couple of weekends suggests no one cares about that recommendation (tons of out of state plates around), my folks still won't book until that order is lifted.  

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## machski (Jun 10, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> To be fair, NH isn't all that much better than VT in welcoming visitors right now.  My folks are looking to book a house on Winnipesaukee for a week in September.  As of today, NH is still requesting visitors who enter the state to have self quarantined for 14 days before arrival.  Despite me telling them that my observations visiting our marina on the lake the past couple of weekends suggests no one cares about that recommendation (tons of out of state plates around), my folks still won't book until that order is lifted.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


In NH, it is only strongly recommended to Quarantine for 14.  Same goes with wearing masks, strongly recommended but not actually mandated/ordered unlike both VT and Maine.  Maine is actually a bit better for NH folks right now than VT.  Maine is fully open for all residents of NH and VT right now.  VT, the three most populous counties in NH and two in ME are still stuck with Quarantine order.  How they plan to enforce a county by county restriction is beyond me.  

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## drjeff (Jun 10, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> The economic situation in Vermont was pretty bad before all this started.  The longer VT discourages visitors and second homeowners from dumping money into their economy, the more people will go elsewhere to states more welcoming - both short term and longer term. Really surprised small businesses haven't pushed harder for a broader reopening.



I'd expect that the push to reopen, from the citizens of VT, will start to happen soon. Especially in the more rural, ski town areas, one has to remember that the residents (and small business owners) are fairly used to if not actually shutting down from a good chunk of April and May and into early June, then having a greatly diminished rate of business as ski season wound down until the Summer season gets going typically in mid/late June short of a little spike in business around Memorial Day weekend


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## cdskier (Jun 10, 2020)

drjeff said:


> I'd expect that the push to reopen, from the citizens of VT, will start to happen soon. Especially in the more rural, ski town areas, one has to remember that the residents (and small business owners) are fairly used to if not actually shutting down from a good chunk of April and May and into early June, then having a greatly diminished rate of business as ski season wound down until the Summer season gets going typically in mid/late June short of a little spike in business around Memorial Day weekend



Article just this week from the Valley Reporter in the Mad River Valley about the impacts on one of the relatively popular local businesses:
https://www.valleyreporter.com/index.php/news/local-news/14639-mad-river-barn-seeks-a-path-forward


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## JimG. (Jun 10, 2020)

drjeff said:


> I'd expect that the push to reopen, from the citizens of VT, will start to happen soon. Especially in the more rural, ski town areas, one has to remember that the residents (and small business owners) are fairly used to if not actually shutting down from a good chunk of April and May and into early June, then having a greatly diminished rate of business as ski season wound down until the Summer season gets going typically in mid/late June short of a little spike in business around Memorial Day weekend



This is an excellent point. I still have until mid-July before any deadlines hit home but we shall see.


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## JimG. (Jun 10, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Article just this week from the Valley Reporter in the Mad River Valley about the impacts on one of the relatively popular local businesses:
> https://www.valleyreporter.com/index.php/news/local-news/14639-mad-river-barn-seeks-a-path-forward



Sounds dire small biz really getting screwed.


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## njdiver85 (Jun 10, 2020)

drjeff said:


> I'd expect that the push to reopen, from the citizens of VT, will start to happen soon.



I'd say it's probably a bit too late.  They should have started their push two weeks ago. Most public schools in NJ, for example, are out either this week or end of next.  If the state of VT waits another two weeks before announcing a better plan, those families will have already made plans to visit a more welcoming state.  People are itching to go somewhere, and likely view road trips as a much safer alternative to flying.

I bet if the VT politicians were told back in mid-March that they won't get a paycheck until things are open, we'd be a lot further along right now.  Applies to all politicians obviously.


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## Smellytele (Jun 10, 2020)

njdiver85 said:


> I bet if the VT politicians were told back in mid-March that they won't get a paycheck until things are open, we'd be a lot further along right now.  Applies to all politicians obviously.



Most NH politicians would not care. State reps and Senators make $200 a term



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## FBGM (Jun 16, 2020)

I for one am just perplexed at how Mount Snow is going to be able to run with the firing of Ellia Hamilton and B Ryan (thug life name alert). 

At least now rent will be cut down as their heads were so big they needed 2 offices each. 

Yeah buddy - give me a lime for my corona.


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## ss20 (Jun 16, 2020)

FBGM said:


> I for one am just perplexed at how Mount Snow is going to be able to run with the firing of Ellia Hamilton and B Ryan (thug life name alert).
> 
> At least now rent will be cut down as their heads were so big they needed 2 offices each.
> 
> Yeah buddy - give me a lime for my corona.



Hey with the big names gone maybe your part-time lifty job there could become full-time!  Or they'll upgrade you from magic carpet op to a chairlift bumper.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jun 16, 2020)

:lol: :lol:


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## FBGM (Jun 16, 2020)

ss20 said:


> Hey with the big names gone maybe your part-time lifty job there could become full-time!  Or they'll upgrade you from magic carpet op to a chairlift bumper.



At least i would still be getting a paycheck...

Covid and Lime out!!!


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## Cobbold (Jun 16, 2020)

Where did you hear about the firings?


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## Glenn (Jun 16, 2020)

Their summit weather station is back online as of yesterday...so maybe some activity has resumed?


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## drjeff (Jun 16, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> Where did you hear about the firings?



Definitely been on a few social media accounts of those with ties to the industry over the last month or so. Can't remember if I've seen an official press release about it though


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## cdskier (Jun 16, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Definitely been on a few social media accounts of those with ties to the industry over the last month or so. Can't remember if I've seen an official press release about it though



At least for Elia it was officially announced...you even posted an article about it back when it happened! :grin:



drjeff said:


> https://www.saminfo.com/headline-news/9538-leadership-changes-in-vail-resorts-eastern-region
> 
> Queue up the "Happy Dance" from FGBM


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## Cobbold (Jun 16, 2020)

cdskier said:


> At least for Elia it was officially announced...you even posted an article about it back when it happened! :grin:



Is this a good thing for Mt snow or bad thing?  I hate to hear about people getting fired.


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## FBGM (Jun 16, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> Is this a good thing for Mt snow or bad thing?  I hate to hear about people getting fired.



If you don’t align with the Vail mold then you go away. Happens every time they acquire. Happens all the time when any business acquisitions occur (omg I’m using big words - bumping chairs while listening to business 101 podcast must help)

Both of these guys were dead money and not needed. Absolutely no need for a project manager or capEx hand holder. Vail has people already in place for that, and they actually know what they are doing. The other dude was some terrain park slope maintenance over see all areas guy. Made up position cuz he was in bed with old owners. Completely unnecessary position and Vail is smart and knew that. 

There is no time better then the present to know and see the low hanging fruit. Why keep 10 when 6 and 20% pay cut are doing the same? Damn, these business 101 podcasts are getting good. 

Cough on your face, out!


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## Newpylong (Jun 17, 2020)

Yes, Brendan left (saw the hand writing on the wall), Elia was canned. I don't think their egos (both are massive) played into it, it is really as FBGM said (wow I actually agree with him).


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## FBGM (Jun 18, 2020)

O09 said:


> Those guys were such corporate stooges.
> 
> Brendan Ryan got himself elected to the local sewer district so that Peaks could get a lower hook up fee for their planned condos at Carinthia.  He managed to raise everyone in Dover's water rates to pay for the bond that upgraded to the system and argued a lower hook-up fee at the same time, taking the fee they pay from $60/gal to $40/gal.  Mount snow should have paid a mitigation payment since they were taking up all of the remaining gallonage with their development and the upgrades would disproportionately benefit them.  Once construction started on the unnecessary sewer upgrades with Peaks paying as little as possible, he left town, leaving the district with construction cost overruns, the people of Dover with high water fees, and no condos (they didn't have the money) to show for the work.  What an asshole.
> 
> ...




Im hard. 

I got pages more of this stuff I can air out. Keep it coming. (That’s what she said)


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## drjeff (Jun 19, 2020)

Golf course opened Wednesday (the 17th) with play scheduled only for Wednesday through Sunday as of now for this season (could be a bit of a boost to the reopened 7 days a week Haystack Golf Club.

Limited Summer Ops (no mountain biking yet, no Summer Family Camp program) with scenic weekend lift rides and some garb and go food and beverage options starting next weekend. No pool available as of now at the Grand Summit Hotel.

The press release definitely has a tone to it of "limited Summer Ops" so we can hopefully have a more normal winter ops thing going on


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