# Stowe vs Sugarbush...



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

This could turn into a pretty good thread.  Do you prefer skiing/riding at Stowe or Sugarbush?  When I was a Freshman at UVM I had the Big Pass which was a combined Stowe/Sugarbush season pass and I had my schedule set-up so I could ski MWFSS..I skied both places alot that season but liked Stowe better..for the awesome tree skiing and two top to bottom high speed lifts.  Plus Stowe gets more snowfall on average(despite what the marketing guys might say).  The next three years at college I got a Stowe only pass and didn't visit Sugarbush much although I spent a number of days at Mad River Glen...Do you like Stowe better or Sugarbush better????  Why??


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## koreshot (Sep 5, 2007)

Stowe Advantages:
- Better terrain (although not by much)
- Better lift system accessing that terrain
- Good hiking

Stowe is the greatest, everyone should always go skiing in Stowe over SB!


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

I haven't skied Stowe, so I cannot make a valid comparison.  If you don't want to read my post because of that, it's perfectly fine with me  .  However, there is one clause here: if you do read my post, DO NOT respond with a post about "how ignorant I am for trying to discuss this without having ever skied Stowe."  I know that.  Now you know that. Read it for what it is... a partially-valid opinion.

I will (by my pro-Sugarbush nature :wink: ) have to point a couple of things out by sheer facts (and a lot of speculation  ) that I _think_ make Sugarbush better.  First of all, contrary to your opinion (which I'm fine with, and respect), I personally dislike top to bottom lifts because they create a line nightmare on busy days and do not disperse the crowd well.  Sugarbush, mostly Mt. Ellen, does a perfect job of dispersing the crowd even on the busiest of days.  Because of the GMX/Summit/NRX setup, there is practically never more than a 5 minute wait anywhere.  Throw Sunny D and Inverness into the mix, and we're golden... very few lift lines.

As far as trees, I can't imagine that Stowe has much better trees than the marked trees at the Bush + Slidebrook + the unmarked woods that you may not have yet experienced.  However... I could be wrong since I have not skied Stowe.

I've heard a lot of talk about the front 4 or whatever those 4 great expert trails are.  But I can't believe that they're any better than your combo of Middle Earth + C-Rock Run + Rumble + Liftline + Twist + Hammerhead + Tumbler + Spills + Mall + Lower FIS + Black Diamond + Exterm + Bravo.  Again, I need to ski Stowe and ski those 4 trails before making a true argument.  I would just be in sheer disbelief if those 4 trails were any better than the ones I mentioned.  Sugarbush just has a bit more expert terrain than Stowe (35% vs. 25%) in general.

From the reports that I have heard, Stowe does not often have great bumps.  Either because the skiers there don't ski bumps, or their occupied with something else.  If there aren't good bumps, I don't want to ski there.  You can keep your trees and groomed steeps to yourself :wink:

Based on the stats and the maps, Sugarbush has a little more to offer variety and terrain-wise.  More acreage, more trails (although I do respect Stowe for their trail naming scheme, aka giving one trail one name, and not having "upper" "upper-middle" "middle" "lower-middle" "almost lower" and "lower" names :lol: ).  

As far as snow, yeah, Stowe probably gets a little more.  Like maybe an additional 15 or 20" per year.  Not enough to make me change my mind.  Besides, Sugarbush generally gets more than they report, because the measurements are mostly taken from Lincoln Peak.  More often than not, Mt. Ellen gets anywhere from 1 to 6 inches more on the summit than LP.  So while Stowe probably gets a little more, Mt. Ellen at least is close enough that it doesn't make a difference to me.

I'm really not dissing Stowe, and I will definitely have to ski there because I'm sure it's awesome.  I'm just a Sugarbush guy, and always will be.  I simply couldn't watch this thread without adding some input!

Now... the one thing that REALLY ticks me off about Stowe is that it simply is not affordable.  You cannot get a discount for anything at Stowe.  You know they're the only resort in Vermont that does not give tickets to VT Gold Card holders (a card held by some upper management in the VT industry)?  They don't give free or discounted tickets to other ski area employees, but their employees can often get free or discounted tickets at all of the other areas (with a letter from their supervisor).  It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the general attitude (which may or may not be what it appears).


Okay... I'm done.  Now somebody that's actually skied them both can post an informed opinion


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

koreshot said:


> Stowe Advantages:
> - Better terrain (although not by much)
> - Better lift system accessing that terrain
> - Good hiking
> ...



Um, I think you used this one already in the other thread :wink:


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## JD (Sep 5, 2007)

Sugarbush offers way more back country too!


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## ski_resort_observer (Sep 5, 2007)

They both start with an S, one is owned by a huge New York insurance giant, one is locally owned, they both have great terrain....I'll leave it at that. I'm too old to fall in the same trap that BMM did...:wink: :lol:


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## koreshot (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Um, I think you used this one already in the other thread :wink:



Haha... yeah, I am really trying here, but GSS keeps bringing these Subarbush threads up.

Having skied about 10 days at both, SB is better period.  Will spend most of my time there this year. How about that?


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> They both start with an S, one is owned by a huge New York insurance giant, one is locally owned, they both have great terrain....I'll leave it at that. I'm too old to fall in the same trap that BMM did...:wink: :lol:



:lol:

That's why I put the little preamble at the beginning :wink:


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

koreshot said:


> Haha... yeah, I am really trying here, but GSS keeps bringing these Subarbush threads up.
> 
> Having skied about 10 days at both, SB is better period.  Will spend most of my time there this year. How about that?



Thank you.   Much Better


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## tjf67 (Sep 5, 2007)

I like stowe better.  Been to both at least 10 times .  Worked at sugarbush north making snow one winter. 

Stowe thats my choice and I'm sticking to it


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## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 5, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Stowe thats my choice and I'm sticking to it



Me too. I like SB alot, but Stowe gets the edge from me.


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteeze... why don't you make this a poll just for fun?


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## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I haven't skied Stowe, so I cannot make a valid comparison.



You are so close to it, how could you not ski it just once to at least compare?


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> You are so close to it, how could you not ski it just once to at least compare?



I'm not willing to buy a day pass at Stowe.  That said, sometime I certainly will ski there.  But not at $76 (or even $52 for the early/late rate).  Look at it this way... I was waking up to a 4 minute walk to GMX, a 5 minute drive to Lincoln Peak, and a 10 minute drive to MRG.  I guess I just didn't get around to it.  I did ski Killington and Burke last year, but I was at K-mart for free and Burke on some special deal for around $15 or something.  I guess you could say I'm frugal :wink:

I'm also a college student, which means I don't really have a whole lot of extra cash for $76 lift tickets!


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## wa-loaf (Sep 5, 2007)

koreshot said:


> Stowe Advantages:
> - Better terrain (although not by much)
> - Better lift system accessing that terrain
> - Good hiking
> ...



How could you possibly . . . :evil:  er, ah right. 

Stow is much better by far! ;-)


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## Talisman (Sep 5, 2007)

I like both Sugarbush and Stowe, but ski at Sugarbush more for two reasons: it closer to my ski house and I get cheaper lift tickets through my ski club.

Things I like about Stowe: terrain, lifts, early lift opening on weekends and an early breakfast spot close by.

Things I like about Sugarbush: terrain, access, lack of crowds and I have to drive by the Long Trail Brewery going home.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 5, 2007)

koreshot said:


> Stowe Advantages:
> - Better terrain (although not by much)
> - Better lift system accessing that terrain
> - Good hiking
> ...





BushMogulMaster said:


> Um, I think you used this one already in the other thread :wink:





wa-loaf said:


> How could you possibly . . . :evil:  er, ah right.
> 
> Stow is much better by far! ;-)



What's with all the :wink::wink:. Like you guys who like SB better are much more in the know then those of us who like Stowe. 

That’s condescending bull shit. SB worship threads always end up pissing me off.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2007)

If I had to choose only one to ride for a day, it would be Stowe, but it's close

Sugarbush has the edge in trails, uncrowded, value

Stowe has the edge in snow, back country and lifts


While I do enjoy SB's lift system, I am someone who prefers top to bottom lifts.  While I agree with what someone said about SB's system is better at dealing with crowds, I for the most part don't ski on crowded days.

I know many people love Slidebrook and other back country options at Sugarbush and justifiably so, they are great.  I just think they really don't come close to the options at Stowe.  Nothing at Sugarbush compares to the above tree line options at Stowe nor the vast expanse inside the notch.  All of this requires very little effort to get to or from.  It's this that tips the scale in Stowe's favor for me, not only over Sugarbush, but any other mountain in the North East.


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> What's with all the :wink::wink:. Like you guys who like SB better are much more in the know then those of us who like Stowe.
> 
> That’s condescending bull shit. SB worship threads always end up pissing me off.



Pardon me?  I was referring to koreshot's post in the "which state" thread where he was being sarcastic (and not in a condescending way).  No one's trying to be condescending.

By the way, I see no SB worshiping yet.  It could get much worse.  Isn't it ok that some of use love Sugarbush?  Am I complaining about people who love and adore Whiteface or Stowe?  Nope.  Good for you.  To each his own.  Worship whatever area you like.  I like Sugarbush.  You pick Stowe.  Cool.  No big deal.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I'm not willing to buy a day pass at Stowe.  That said, sometime I certainly will ski there.  But not at $76 (or even $52 for the early/late rate).  Look at it this way... I was waking up to a 4 minute walk to GMX, a 5 minute drive to Lincoln Peak, and a 10 minute drive to MRG.  I guess I just didn't get around to it.  I did ski Killington and Burke last year, but I was at K-mart for free and Burke on some special deal for around $15 or something.  I guess you could say I'm frugal :wink:
> 
> I'm also a college student, which means I don't really have a whole lot of extra cash for $76 lift tickets!



Just curious... How'd you like Burke?


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## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Pardon me?  I was referring to koreshot's post in the "which state" thread where he was being sarcastic (and not in a condescending way).  No one's trying to be condescending.
> 
> By the way, I see no SB worshiping yet.  It could get much worse.  Isn't it ok that some of use love Sugarbush?  Am I complaining about people who love and adore Whiteface or Stowe?  Nope.  Good for you.  To each his own.  Worship whatever area you like.  I like Sugarbush.  You pick Stowe.  Cool.  No big deal.



Over the last several years, alot of posters have held SB as far and away the best ski area in the East. I and others have held that while it is undoubtly in the conversation with the best in the East it has worthy competition.

It's kinda an ongoing AZ culture thing - catch up.

It's also kinda a joke with Greg as he is the Archbishop of the Church of Sugarbush.


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

from_the_NEK said:


> Just curious... How'd you like Burke?



I definitely enjoyed it.  I think it's a fun area with a good atmosphere.  The bumps were pretty rough (compared to what I'm used to at SB), but I definitely had a great time.  I'll be skiing there again.


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Over the last several years, alot of posters have held SB as far and away the best ski area in the East. I and others have held that while it is undoubtly in the conversation with the best in the East it has worthy competition.
> 
> It's kinda an ongoing AZ culture thing - catch up.
> 
> It's also kinda a joke with Greg as he is the Archbishop of the Church of Sugarbush.



Gotcha.  I'm the biggest SB fan there is, but I'm more than willing to admit that it's got competition.  I think it's the best in the East, but I'm not saying that it's the best by a mile.  I think it's got the edge over every other Eastern area I've skied.  But there are plenty of absolutely fantastic areas in the East.  Sugarbush has my loyalty, though.

By the way, if Greg is the Archbishop, I must admit to being the Pope of the Church of SB.  For heaven's sake (pun intended), I did build the sugarbushhistory.com website and ski over 160 days there in the past 2 seasons  .


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## ski_resort_observer (Sep 5, 2007)

HPD........people have a right to advocate for whatever ski area they like, you know,  like you do with Whiteface, whether it pisses you off or not.

BTW.....Greg is the Archbishop of MRG and Mogul Obsessivness or AMMO for short...if your going to flame someone at least use the correct title. :wink: :wink:


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## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 5, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> HPD........people have a right to advocate for whatever ski area they like, you know,  like you do with Whiteface, whether it pisses you off or not.
> 
> BTW.....Greg is the Archbishop of MRG and Mogul Obsessivness or AMMO for short...if your going to flame someone at least use the correct title. :wink: :wink:



I'm going to try to explain my position on this one more time. I too think SB is a great mountain. How could anyone ski there and not think so? However, in the past many of the SB faithful have basically declared it the best in the East by far. IMO, they are not head and shoulders above some of there worth competitors.

I have stated this on many threads in the past and my opinion is often met with disbelief or dismissal. I never said people didn't have the right to advocate for their mountain, so how about you don't put words in my mouth.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I haven't skied Stowe, so I cannot make a valid comparison.  If you don't want to read my post because of that, it's perfectly fine with me  .  However, there is one clause here: if you do read my post, DO NOT respond with a post about "how ignorant I am for trying to discuss this without having ever skied Stowe."  I know that.  Now you know that. Read it for what it is... a partially-valid opinion.
> 
> I will (by my pro-Sugarbush nature :wink: ) have to point a couple of things out by sheer facts (and a lot of speculation  ) that I _think_ make Sugarbush better.  First of all, contrary to your opinion (which I'm fine with, and respect), I personally dislike top to bottom lifts because they create a line nightmare on busy days and do not disperse the crowd well.  Sugarbush, mostly Mt. Ellen, does a perfect job of dispersing the crowd even on the busiest of days.  Because of the GMX/Summit/NRX setup, there is practically never more than a 5 minute wait anywhere.  Throw Sunny D and Inverness into the mix, and we're golden... very few lift lines.
> 
> ...




A waste of a post since you've never skied Stowe..:sad:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> GrilledSteeze... why don't you make this a poll just for fun?



polls are for gapers


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## Lostone (Sep 5, 2007)

So...  you would like the title of the thread to be "Which is better, Stowe or Sugarbush, and it had better be Stowe"?  :-?

I think that if you are running the front four, continuously, Stowe has it.  Other than that, I think Sugarbush is it.  I think they have a better diversity of terrain.  

I think there are less people, and I think the people at Sugarbush are friendlier.  I've heard it from many.

I did ski Stowe for a year on a pass.  Got in 48 days and had some great days.  I am not going to make believe it isn't a great mountain.  

The next year, I tried a number of mountains, and found I like Sugarbush better.  I started skiing there more regularly.  That was while I was in a ski house between Stowe and Sugarbush.  

When I first joined the house, it was a Stowe house.  As time went on, more and more days were spent at Sugarbush.  Now, I would say most of the members would refer to it as a Sugarbush house that is close enough to ski Stowe.  

Count me as one of those who are avid Sugarbush fans.  Taht was so before I bought my condo here.  I have voted with my money...  then with my feet :wink:


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## campgottagopee (Sep 5, 2007)

I vote Stowe. Skied both, like both, but give the edge to Stowe for the endless fun you can have in the Notch. That and the fact you can ski over to Smuggs or down the other side of Mansfield into Underhill. Just way fun stuff for me.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

How about I break it down this way...add yours to the list..

Sweet trails at Sugarbush...Castlerock Run, Liftline, Rumble, Cotillion, Middle Earth, Paradise, Ripcord, Spillsville, Organgrinder, Twist, The Mall, Steins Run, Sleeper, FIS..upper and lower, Jester, Exterminator, Walts Run, Inverness, Bravo-Encore, Brambles, and many more..

Sweet Trails at Stowe..Goat, National, Starr, Lookout, Chin-Clip, Gondolier, Perry Merrill, Cliff Trail, Nosedive, Bypass, Lookout, Hayride, Ridgeview to Sunrise to Standard to Crossover combo..Lord to North slope combo, Daltons, Main Street, Whirlaway, Sterling, Smugglers, and many more..

As for tree skiing...Stowe has alot more tree skiing..hands down..no question about it IMHO..

As for Top to Bottom runs..that's what Stowe is all about..and stays steeper longer than Da Bush..

As for snowfall..Stowe wins hands down..

As for operating hours..well Stowe opens earlier..

As for Town..yes the town of Stowe is better..way better than Waitsfield..

As for hot trick hoes..well neither has many...lol


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> As for tree skiing...Stowe has alot more tree skiing..hands down..no question about it IMHO..



More acreage of tree skiing, or more trees that you like?  Slidebrook itself accounts for over 2000 acres of backcountry and tree skiing.  Stowe does not have 2000 acres of trees.



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> As for Top to Bottom runs..that's what Stowe is all about..and stays steeper longer than Da Bush..



Can't argue with that one.  Bush definitely lacks T2B runs for sure.  There are a few, but not many.



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> As for snowfall..Stowe wins hands down..



Not by that much.  As I said, Sugarbush has been rather conservative lately with snowfall totals.  I've proven this with a ruler/measuring tape and a digital camera!  I don't know how accurate Stowe's reports are.  Perhaps you could enlighten me?



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> As for operating hours..well Stowe opens earlier..



By a half hour.  If that half hour is that important to you, more power to you.



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> As for Town..yes the town of Stowe is better..way better than Waitsfield..



Definitely disagree here.  I _have_ spent a lot of time in the town of Stowe, so I can have an opinion here and you don't have to dismiss it as a "waste."  I don't like the (forgive me if I offend anyone) generally yuppy elitist vibe that I get hanging around that town.  Not everywhere, but just in general.  Doesn't feel very "Vermont" to me.  Sure, there's more to do in Stowe than in Waitsfield (which, by the way, Sugarbush is in Warren and Fayston, not Waitsfield).  But I like the atmosphere and the ambiance of the MRV.



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> As for hot trick hoes..well neither has many...lol



Well, can't do much about that one, can we :lol:



As for great runs at the Bush, I would add the following to your list:

Hammerhead, Tumbler, Semi-Tough, Morning Star, Cliffs (when the conditions are right), Black Diamond.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

i believe Mount Mansfield has more than 2,000 acres of Backcountry and trees..can anybody confirm???  If you put Stowe down for the Yuppies..that's a cop out..there are tons of yuppies almost everywhere in New England and ski country in general..aside from the dirtbags(I was once one) it's mostly people with large disposable incomes...not a bad thing..


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> i believe Mount Mansfield has more than 2,000 acres of Backcountry and trees..can anybody confirm???  If you put Stowe down for the Yuppies..that's a cop out..there are tons of yuppies almost everywhere in New England and ski country in general..aside from the dirtbags(I was once one) it's mostly people with large disposable incomes...not a bad thing..



Well, that's your opinion.  Aren't we comparing this to Sugarbush?  May I have an opinion?  Or is yours the only valid opinion?

I get a more "yuppy" vibe from Stowe than Sugarbush.  Maybe you don't.  That's really ok.  All I'm saying is that it's okay for me to have my own opinion.  I dislike the town of Stowe in comparison with the MRV.

Part of the elitist yuppy vibe (that I personally get) comes from my issues with the pricing and lack of flexibility in that department.  So perhaps my perception of the town is slightly tainted by my issues with mountain-related decisions.  But the MRV still wins in my book.

I'm not going to get into this further at the moment.  You know my opinion about the town, you've completely dismissed my opinions about the mountains (including the ones that don't rest on whether I've skied Stowe or not).  You've completely ignored the fact that I said Stowe is probably a great mountain, and that I'd love to ski it.  I guess I'm just not allowed to have my own opinion  .


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> i believe Mount Mansfield has more than 2,000 acres of Backcountry and trees..can anybody confirm???



You may be right, I honestly don't know about that.  Sugarbush encompasses 4000 total acres, 508 of which are in-bounds pistes.  Certainly the other 3500 isn't all good tree/bc skiing, but I'm quite certain that somewhere between 2500 and 3000 of those additional acres are in fact skiiable bc/tree skiing (as long as your not afraid of some tight trees :wink: )


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Well, that's your opinion.  Aren't we comparing this to Sugarbush?  May I have an opinion?  Or is yours the only valid opinion?
> 
> I get a more "yuppy" vibe from Stowe than Sugarbush.  Maybe you don't.  That's really ok.  All I'm saying is that it's okay for me to have my own opinion.  I dislike the town of Stowe in comparison with the MRV.
> 
> ...




Yeah but you've never skied Stowe so your posts in this thread were a complete waster..and doesn't Sugarbush charge like 70 bucks a day??


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Yeah but you've never skied Stowe so your posts in this thread were a complete waster..and doesn't Sugarbush charge like 70 bucks a day??



Didn't you read the top of my first post?  I said that I hadn't skied Stowe, and that if you didn't think my opinions would be valid then don't bother reading/responding to my post.  I don't see what the issue is.  I made is clear that my opinions were based on obvious facts, and what I know from trusted sources.  I said I want to ski Stowe so that I can really compare.  I guess SRO was right (darn old folk anyway), I should have kept my mouth shut.  Although I don't think anyone else took issue with it.  They took it for what it was.

As for prices, Sugarbush is $66 for a day pass.  Pretty expensive, but I have a season pass so it's irrelevant to me personally.  The difference is that Sugarbush offers affordable options such promotions, discounts, and the Mt. Ellen pass.  Sugarbush also generally entertains discounts for other ski area employees (assuming appropriate letters and documentation are in place).


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## wa-loaf (Sep 5, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> What's with all the :wink::wink:. Like you guys who like SB better are much more in the know then those of us who like Stowe.
> 
> That’s condescending bull shit. SB worship threads always end up pissing me off.



Aside from the BMM - GSS battle going on, I think most of us take it all pretty tongue and cheek. Besides Sugarloaf is better than either. :razz:


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## twinplanx (Sep 5, 2007)

Haven't skied either area more than once but if I may chime in here I might as well point out the Mad bus(FREE)  will pick up BC skiers at the road at the bottom of the SB area that connects LP w/ MT. Ellen.  Good luck getting a ride from those yuppies at Stowe at the bottom of MT Mansfield


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Aside from the BMM - GSS battle going on, I think most of us take it all pretty tongue and cheek. Besides Sugarloaf is better than either. :razz:



I don't want it to be a battle.  I just don't understand the hostility when I made myself very clear from my first post.

Oh well.  No hard feelings.  I've enjoyed GSS's posts to this point (minus a few :wink: ) and I won't let this little disagreement be an issue.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> May I have an opinion?  Or is yours the only valid opinion?
> 
> You've completely ignored the fact that I said Stowe is probably a great mountain, and that I'd love to ski it.  I guess I'm just not allowed to have my own opinion  .




You most certainly can have an opinion of the 'town' of Stowe, but not the ski area.  In many ways, I agree, MRV and the people that hang there is a far more laid back place than Stowe.  That being said, have you experienced Stowe's laid back side?  Have you hung out with George at Picasso or Boo at Ladies Invited and really gotten to know the local ski bum population?  If your judgements are based purely on hanging out at the Rusty Nail on a Saturday night or at some of the high end places in town, you really haven't gotten to 'know' the town of Stowe.  There's more to Stowe than millionaire yuppies from Montreal owning McMansions in Robinson Springs.


As for the mountain, no you are not entitled to an opinion.  You've stated over and over everything you love about Sugarbush.  Many of those opinions I agree with you on.  Sugarbush is a GREAT mountain.  Feel free to start your own thread then discussing why Sugarbush is so great and save your opinions for there as you have none in this thread is it pertains to a place you have never skied.

You have no place to argue that the Bush has more or better back country.  There is a ton there, but I think most people who have skied both and experienced all there is to have in the Notch and the few hundred acres above treeline at Stowe will tell you, the comparison is close, but Stowe has the MOST lift accessible back country in NE.  The notch is a HUGE place on both sides of the road.  

You also have no place to discuss snowfall either.  The difference isn't huge, but there is a difference.  That hour north makes a difference as does Stowe's proximity to weather patterns coming off of the broad part of Lake Champlain, where as Sugarbush falls more to the south.

I can understand how some might like Sugarbush more.  They do have a better trail network and to me, a better overall vibe.  It's no wonder to me why so many people love it.  I do myself, but I love the back country that Stowe has that Sugarbush does not. That is what makes me choose Stowe over and over..  Do yourself a favor and ski Tusk, Waterfall, Epiphany Bowl, Profanity et. al. .......nothing at Sugarbush can compare.  The Birthday bowls off of Spruce easily compare to Slidebrook.

I guess the point I'm making is that you and your 'opinion' BushMogulMaster, make you look like a total 'HOMER'.  By all means, love the mountain you love, but until you ski somewhere and not just once, but a good twenty times under all conditions, you really don't have an opinion.  

I live and ski in Maine now.  What you're doing would be like me getting into an arguement as to what is better, Sunday River or Saddleback.  I don't have an opinion as I've never skied Saddleback.  Likewise, no, you are not entitled to an opinion about the skiing at Stowe.


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## koreshot (Sep 5, 2007)

Man, mogulmaster is getting slammed here, and I don't really know why.  Yes he hasn't skied Stowe (which he stated upfront as a disclaimer), so maybe his comparison isn't as valid as someone else's but one can still have a reaasonably fact based opinion on a resort without skiing it.

For example - when comparing JH and Targhee - even if I had never skied both the answer would be very obvious to me.  For challenge and terrain go to JH, for low crowds, chill skiing experience and awesome snow go to Targhee.  Does my opinion not matter cause I haven't skied both resorts?  Pitch, exposure to sun, snowfall statistics, lift uphill capacity, trail map and lift ticket prices tell at least 50% of the story for a ski resort.

So cut the guy some slack.  

My vote goes to Sugarbush but I would say that Stowe does have better terrain and lift system allowing you to rack up more top to bottom challenging vert.  But to me that is only half the story - the resort atmosphere, character, crowds and cost are also important factors.  In particular the crowds.  And this is where Sugarbush takes over - terrain and snow similar to what Stowe offers with less crowds and a bit cheaper lift tickets. Stowe does have a beautiful town but I do find it overly yuppy for my tastes.  Since I am from NJ, the more expensive lodging in Stowe is also a factor.

A few locals have told me that Stowe makes more money in August than any other month (I haven't confirmed this myself).  Lots of summe activities like golf and fancy spas and socializing - very expensive real estate too.  I would guess that is a recipe for an extra high yuppy factor.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2007)

twinplanx said:


> Haven't skied either area more than once but if I may chime in here I might as well point out the Mad bus(FREE)  will pick up BC skiers at the road at the bottom of the SB area that connects LP w/ MT. Ellen.  Good luck getting a ride from those yuppies at Stowe at the bottom of MT Mansfield



No need at Mansfield.  Whether your on the Stowe side or Smuggs side, you can ski back to the lift with limited flat area.

If you're referring to town transportation, they have a pretty good trolley system.  Those damn yuppies charge a buck though to get to and from the mountain.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 5, 2007)

kinda curious, of all the ski resorts, why stowe vs. sugarbush? Whats the significance? Just seems like its 2 random ski resorts pitted against each other


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## millerm277 (Sep 5, 2007)

llamborghinii said:


> kinda curious, of all the ski resorts, why stowe vs. sugarbush? Whats the significance? Just seems like its 2 random ski resorts pitted against each other



Because, we need something to argue about. Sugarbush vs. Killington is the more traditional fight though.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 5, 2007)

koreshot said:


> For example - when comparing JH and Targhee - even if I had never skied both the answer would be very obvious to me.  For challenge and terrain go to JH, for low crowds, chill skiing experience and awesome snow go to Targhee.  Does my opinion not matter cause I haven't skied both resorts?  Pitch, exposure to sun, snowfall statistics, lift uphill capacity, trail map and lift ticket prices tell at least 50% of the story for a ski resort.
> 
> .



fair enough, I'll give BMM a 50% credit on his opinion

on your take though, I thought Aspen was all about glitz, yuppies, that very few laid back ski bums lived there and the terrain wasn't all that based upon everything I had read......


.....until I skied there and realized, it's a pretty kick ass place if you know the right locals.


you have to go, to truly know


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

Thanks for the support, koreshot.

Goodness, folks.  That's why I said ignore my post if you were going to take issue with it!  Simple instructions!  As kore pointed out, I was comparing based on the metrics I know, and the resources available to me.  I did not even definitively state that Sugarbush was better than Stowe, for heaven's sake.  I said that based on what I know, I like Sugarbush better.  If I ski Stowe, I'll make a definite comparison.

I'd like to bring your attention to a couple of key phrases and words that I used in my initial post, including, "I think," "I've heard," "I imagine," "I believe," "probably," and the inverses of these.  All I was doing was using what I had been told, what I had read, what I had seen to formulate a speculative opinion.  I stated clearly from whence my opinion was derived, and you still feel it necessary to attack me as though I'm an credibility-lacking gaper.  I believe I've established myself on this board and on SkiMRV enough that many of you realize where I'm coming from.

And yes, deadhead... you have to go to truly know.  I think I said that several times in my first post.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 5, 2007)

Having skied both mountains - each 20+ times under a variety of conditions and spending time in both the town of Stowe and the Mad River Valley ( Waitsfield )  I prefer Sugarbush.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

llamborghinii said:


> kinda curious, of all the ski resorts, why stowe vs. sugarbush? Whats the significance? Just seems like its 2 random ski resorts pitted against each other



Because they're at competition with one and other for skier visits.  Plus they are close to one and other(within 40-50 miles)..

Plus the locals at both mountains are among the most diehard in the east.  There is a rivalry between the two mountains down to the Stowe/Sugarbush skibum races.  I prefer to spend my time at Stowe vs Sugarbush..but others have different opinions..but if you haven't skied both mountains then stay out of this thread.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

millerm277 said:


> Because, we need something to argue about. Sugarbush vs. Killington is the more traditional fight though.



Seriously...do any people actually choose Killington....lololololololololol..


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## sledhaulingmedic (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Seriously...do any people actually choose Killington....lololololololololol..


You're the one who brought up skier visits  :roll:

I've never been to SB and can't afford Stowe (w/o a comp). My vote goes to SB


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

EDITED

(worked out via PM)


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> That's a very kind way to respond after I reached out my hand in friendship via PM.  Thanks, GSS.



Sorry..I didn't see the PM....but if there was a poll that said what do you like better Apples or Oranges and you never ate an Orange because you heard it wasn't as good as Apples..then there would be no point in answering it...Beating a dead horse..


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## JD (Sep 5, 2007)

Skiing is free, it's the lift that costs money.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

JD said:


> Skiing is free, it's the lift that costs money.



True-dat and we can all be thankfull that both Stowe and Sugarbush are on forest service land so we can earn turns before and after the lifts start turning..Holla


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> True-dat and we can all be thankfull that both Stowe and Sugarbush are on forest service land so we can earn turns before and after the lifts start turning..Holla



Lincoln Peak is on USFS land, but Mt. Ellen (aside from FIS and Black Diamond and a small portion of Rim Run) is all private land.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 5, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Lincoln Peak is on USFS land, but Mt. Ellen (aside from FIS and Black Diamond and a small portion of Rim Run) is all private land.



But they tolerate earning turns at Sugarbush North..and great views of Lake Champlain from the top..


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 5, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> But they tolerate earning turns at Sugarbush North..and great views of Lake Champlain from the top..



Definitely true.  Many a wind-hold day I earned my turns on good 'ol Mt. Ellen.  And don't forget the views of the Whites the other direction... quite stunning on a clear day.


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## Newpylong (Sep 5, 2007)

Sugarbush, hands down.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 5, 2007)

One thing I really like about Stowe is there honesty. I haven't skied there since 01 or so, but they only claimed to have 48 trails. But it still felt like it was the size of the sugarbush. I like the face that they don't pull a killington, and make all trails into upper, middle, and lower. If they wanted to, they could claim well over 100 trails. Ok enough on that part.

Now this may disqualify me from this discussion.....I've been to the bush three times, the first 2 times castlerock was closed. And I don't remember the last time I went, but it was in April when they still had the old carlevaro-savio lift. The lift warned "thin-cover" at the very bottom, but it should have said "no cover" Once I got to top, I was too worried about not ruining my skies to actually enjoy the rock.

So overall I enjoyed Stowe more, cuz of the diversity of terrain, and because of the challenge of the expert terrain


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## RISkier (Sep 6, 2007)

koreshot said:


> A few locals have told me that Stowe makes more money in August than any other month (I haven't confirmed this myself).  Lots of summe activities like golf and fancy spas and socializing - very expensive real estate too.  I would guess that is a recipe for an extra high yuppy factor.



I know some Stowe instructors who have also said that summer is really the busiest tourist season.


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## twinplanx (Sep 6, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> No need at Mansfield.  Whether your on the Stowe side or Smuggs side, you can ski back to the lift with limited flat area.
> 
> If you're referring to town transportation, they have a pretty good trolley system.  Those damn yuppies charge a buck though to get to and from the mountain.



Huh...well I did not know that(visiting Stowe once)...skiing back to the lift sounds easy enough and actually one dollar is pretty cheap...You could get like 3/4 rides for the same price of 1 cup of starfbucks


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## skibum1321 (Sep 6, 2007)

I have skied Stowe for a season during college and a few random days otherwise. I have skied Sugarbush for 2 years during college and this upcoming season (Mellen+ pass). Having said that, I prefer Sugarbush as an overall experience. Sugarbush definitely has the edge in terms of marked trails. The only trails that I truly enjoyed at Stowe were Goat, Lookout and Starr. National and Liftline are a joke - they remind me of Ripcord at Sugarbush, which is not a good thing. Sugarbush has a bunch of trails that I love (off the top of my head - The Mall, Liftline, Castlerock Run, Middle Earth, Rumble, Black Diamond, Morningstar, Exterminator, Paradise)

In terms of backcountry, both of them are awesome and it really is tough to compare because they offer such different experiences. Skiing off of the Chin is great and definitely a huge plus for Stowe. The back bowls are great too, and I am pretty familiar with all of those after skiing at Smuggs for 4 seasons. Sugarbush has Slidebrook, which really does have a ton of great backcountry options.

As for the vibes of the area, I definitely have to lean towards Sugarbush and not just because Stowe is way too expensive. Sugarbush isn't exactly known for its nightlife but I don't really like to go out drinking until 2am before skiing anyway. If that is your scene, then Stowe is definitely better for that. Sugarbush is just more laid back and has a much more relaxed attitude.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 6, 2007)

The town of Stowe is a huge destination for expensive 100k+ weddings...I read about it in one of the free magazines when I was in town in April.  This past season I skied Stowe 8 days and Sugarbush zero days...1 day at MRG..The last time I skied Sugarbush was in March of 2005 because one of our Granite suppliers gave me a free pass..


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## skibum1321 (Sep 6, 2007)

Last season I skied Stowe 0 days, 4 at Sugarbush (in the spring with my pass for this season), MRG for 3 days and probably 30+ at Smuggs.

As you can see, all of my skiing tends to be concentrated in a very small area of the Northeast.


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## Phildozer (Sep 6, 2007)

RISkier said:


> I know some Stowe instructors who have also said that summer is really the busiest tourist season.





Yeah but the skiing sucks in August.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 6, 2007)

skibum1321 said:


> Last season I skied Stowe 0 days, 4 at Sugarbush (in the spring with my pass for this season), MRG for 3 days and probably 30+ at Smuggs.
> 
> As you can see, all of my skiing tends to be concentrated in a very small area of the Northeast.




I know..you're like me..a Northern Vermont snob..but as I get more money and vacation time..I spend more time out west..


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## smootharc (Sep 6, 2007)

*Stowe v. Sugarbush*

Brunettes v. Blondes.   I choose.....redheads !

Oh merciful Ullr, may you make the snow fly....and soon.  Columbus Day storm, anyone ?

Fun thread to read, though.  Gotta love it when the unarguable gets argued.....then right and wrong are proven....all without a shadow of a doubt.....using the latest in statistical and scientific ski data.....by otherwise sane and productive citizen skiers.   I love this country !  

Today's SAT word is........subjective ! 

Peace out.  

P.S.  I do have a strong opinion on this issue, but I am too timid and wishy-washy to say it out loud, even though I know I'm right......


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## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 6, 2007)

smootharc said:


> Brunettes v. Blondes.   I choose.....redheads !
> 
> Oh merciful Ullr, may you make the snow fly....and soon.  Columbus Day storm, anyone ?
> 
> ...



Dang, that's the most well written and thought out post I've read in hear in some time. Really, nice job.


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## campgottagopee (Sep 6, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Dang, that's the most well written and thought out post I've read in hear in some time. Really, nice job.



See what happens when you like redheads


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 6, 2007)

smootharc said:


> P.S.  I do have a strong opinion on this issue, but I am too timid and wishy-washy to say it out loud, even though I know I'm right......



A wise man, indeed.  If only I would have thought of that before I posted :wink:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 6, 2007)

It's fun to argue..


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## Greg (Sep 6, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> That’s condescending bull shit. SB worship threads always end up pissing me off.





highpeaksdrifter said:


> Over the last several years, alot of posters have held SB as far and away the best ski area in the East. I and others have held that while it is undoubtly in the conversation with the best in the East it has worthy competition.
> 
> It's kinda an ongoing AZ culture thing - catch up.
> 
> It's also kinda a joke with Greg as he is the Archbishop of the Church of Sugarbush.





BushMogulMaster said:


> By the way, if Greg is the Archbishop, I must admit to being the Pope of the Church of SB.  For heaven's sake (pun intended), I did build the sugarbushhistory.com website and ski over 160 days there in the past 2 seasons  .



HPD - easy there, Killer! :-o I have a whopping eight days under my belt at the Bush. I've barely scratched the surface, but I can tell you I like what I've seen so far. Guys like BMM, S_R_O and Lostone are far more qualified to speak on SB than I am. Perhaps as this site's admin, my comments are (for whatever reason) more scrutinized, or perhaps even more highly regarded, which is also pretty silly as I have far less experience than many of you.



highpeaksdrifter said:


> I'm going to try to explain my position on this one more time. I too think SB is a great mountain. How could anyone ski there and not think so? However, in the past many of the SB faithful have basically declared it the best in the East by far. IMO, they are not head and shoulders above some of there worth competitors.



I have made the somewhat uninformed (having not yet skied Whiteface, Stowe or Jay yet) that the MRV as a whole offers arguably the best advanced+ level skiing in the East (at least on-map). Remember, SB & MRG is 6 linear miles, end to end, with lots of bumps in there, and as I recall you're among those that feel bumps make the man. :lol: It's also pretty apparent that the mighty Whiteface, that you so adamantly defend offers no where near the mogul options Sugabush does, not to mention MRG, at least based on this thread. I'm a bump nut so that's what I look for in a good ski area.

Nevertheless, I can't wait for the Whiteface tour this season...



highpeaksdrifter said:


> I have stated this on many threads in the past and my opinion is often met with disbelief or dismissal. I never said people didn't have the right to advocate for their mountain, so how about you don't put words in my mouth.



Now you're just starting to sound like a crusty old coot...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 6, 2007)

Stowe has lots of great bump runs..if it hasn't dumped in a few days..Centerline is often left bumped up and hayride is early and late season but groomed for Racing mid-season..wow that is a fast F-ing run when groomed..whew..Lookout and middle/lower Starr can have great bumps.  In the Springtime--National and Liftline are a bumpers paradise..as are Goat and Chin-Clip..then for the intermediates..Gulch is a nice starter mogul run ending with a small headwall before Crossover.  Over at Spruce there's sometimes a nice bumpline along Slalom where some of the races are held.  Big Spruce doesn't get enough traffic for bumps..so you can do high speed GS turns over leftover powder..and unfortunately due to the southern exposure crud..but high speed turns through crud..especially on Race skis..makes the man..

But the woods are really where it's at when skiing Stowe..along with overgrown and skier maintained trails from the 1930s..The Bruce Trail off the backside ends at the cross country center..wow..there's just something about Stowe..The Capital of Eastern Skiing...


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## ski_resort_observer (Sep 7, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> B There is a rivalry between the two mountains down to the Stowe/Sugarbush skibum races.  .



Stowe always kicks our ass mainly cause they have what seems like hundreds and we have a small but a dedicated few. One thing I do know...if Win(Pres.and majority owner of the Bush and dedicated ski bum racer) raced the CEO of AIG it wouldn't even be close...:lol:

BMM - you better come back with straight A's  :lol:


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## BushMogulMaster (Sep 7, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> BMM - you better come back with straight A's  :lol:



All A's so far, SRO.  I intend to keep it that way.  Just got CPR certified the other day.


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## MadPadraic (Sep 7, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Because they're at competition with one and other for skier visits.  Plus they are close to one and other(within 40-50 miles)..
> 
> Plus the locals at both mountains are among the most diehard in the east.  There is a rivalry between the two mountains down to the Stowe/Sugarbush skibum races.  I prefer to spend my time at Stowe vs Sugarbush..but others have different opinions..but if you haven't skied both mountains then stay out of this thread.



I've skied neither, and my vote goes to Cannon, but we can't rule out Yawgoo due to its proximity to superior seafood.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 7, 2007)

MadPadraic said:


> I've skied neither, and my vote goes to Cannon, but we can't rule out Yawgoo due to its proximity to superior seafood.



But Stowe and Sugarbush are near the 6th great lake..Champlain..lots of polluted 3 eyed fish in that lake..Holla..

High Five for STOKE


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## KingM (Sep 7, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> I'm going to try to explain my position on this one more time. I too think SB is a great mountain. How could anyone ski there and not think so? However, in the past many of the SB faithful have basically declared it the best in the East by far. IMO, they are not head and shoulders above some of there worth competitors.



Hey, there are people who don't even think that SB is the best mountain in the Mad River Valley.

I've never met anyone who skied at Stowe who didn't think it was a great mountain. However, it seems that they want to chase away the type of skier who hangs out at AZ in favor of the jet set. Forget SB and MRG, I can ski at Bolton or Middlebury for $25 midweek, or head down to Killington when I can score a great deal. That option just isn't available at Stowe.

Having said that (and this is my perspective as an innkeeper), there are times when SB may not be as good an option as either Killington or Stowe, and that's when you've got casual or non-skiers in the group. Killington has a better nightlife and Stowe has better shopping.


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## smootharc (Sep 7, 2007)

*Just my imagination....*

.....or have AZ'ers, collectively, lost their senses of humor ?  Seems there used to be more friendly banter, more joking around, and more fun.  Maybe it's just my imagination.....or maybe I just need to start taking my meds again.  

A serious case of seriousness seems to be going around.  I was going to burp the national anthem this morning, but I'd probably get flamed....

I'm off to the Teton Gravity Forums to tell those posers that Western skiing sucks......then I can feel some real love !


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## skibum1321 (Sep 7, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I know..you're like me..a Northern Vermont snob..


Going to school in Northern VT kind of spoils you...


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## Greg (Sep 7, 2007)

smootharc said:


> .....or have AZ'ers, collectively, lost their senses of humor ?  Seems there used to be more friendly banter, more joking around, and more fun.  Maybe it's just my imagination.....or maybe I just need to start taking my meds again.
> 
> A serious case of seriousness seems to be going around.  I was going to burp the national anthem this morning, but I'd probably get flamed....
> 
> I'm off to the Teton Gravity Forums to tell those posers that Western skiing sucks......then I can feel some real love !



Just a bunch of cranky skiers waiting for snow. Very typical this time of year.


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## smootharc (Sep 7, 2007)

*Absolutely typical.*



Greg said:


> Just a bunch of cranky skiers waiting for snow. Very typical this time of year.



Case in point.  My dog looked at me kind of funny this morning, and I went off on a 15 minute tirade, berating him for not praying to Ullr enough, for eating too much without pitching in around the house, for not cleaning up his lawn loafs.  He just sat there looking stunned, so I sent him to the groomers for a perm. 

Odd thing is.....we don't even own a dog !


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## 2knees (Sep 7, 2007)

all i know is i want to get back to stowe under better conditions than the one time i did get there.  

What i was really impressed with was the length of some of the runs off the gondola.  Gondolier was just a great long non stop gs turning run.  And that is really not my thing but my thighs were screaming after running it like 3 times.  All the good stuff was closed but goat, starr and hacketts specifically looked so promising.


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## castlerock (Sep 7, 2007)

*All the facts are here*

Between the sillyness, the facts are in here. Deadhead is on most of them. I had a pass at Smuggs for 4 years, skied both sides of the notch, and spent a lot of time skiing Stowe and in Stowe.

5 years ago, I bought a ski house at Sugarbush. I couldn't afford slopeside in Stowe, (had three little kids) and had some friends in the MRV

So now I've had 5 years at Sugarbush. I love both mountains. Mansfield is true big mountain above timberline stuff. It just isn't here at Sugarbush. I also feel that in general the farther north you go the more open the natural glades can be.

If you are just talking skiing Stowe is marginally better (Due to the Mansfield/Notch factor), If you factor in the vibe, and affordability the MRV gets the edge.


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## JD (Sep 8, 2007)

Lift line/National are pretty lame all groomed out.  But catch them with a fresh blacket early season, before they are bumps and windblown ice and they are great trails.  Left side of National from the top is ussually really good.  Left side of lift line is also.  Not uncommon after a descent storm to have 3-4 foot drifting along the treeline and they have good consistant pitch down to crossover.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 8, 2007)

JD said:


> Lift line/National are pretty lame all groomed out.  But catch them with a fresh blacket early season, before they are bumps and windblown ice and they are great trails.  Left side of National from the top is ussually really good.  Left side of lift line is also.  Not uncommon after a descent storm to have 3-4 foot drifting along the treeline and they have good consistant pitch down to crossover.




I don't ever remember National being groomed..at least the top 2/3.  Liftline is one of the few trails when groomed where you get a crazy good workout.  On most groomers I just let my skis run and make big carves//On liftline when groomed..I make alot more turns to maintain my control because if you catch an edge at the wrong spot..you'll be flung into a lifttower or trees.  Plus I always like skiing right under the chair..with an audience I feel like I ski better and push it harder.  

Halloween of 1997 when I was a freshman at UVM..I managed to score a ride with Jerm from the ski-vermont list for early season earned turns at Stowe.  Jerm is an older brother of one of the Meatheads.  We hiked up Nosedive..sat on the deck of the Octogon and had a snack..then skied down manmade on upper Lord to National..National was  basically untracked but on the heavy side and obviously no bumps..just terra firma under the 18 or so inches of snow.  Such great early season turns and then lower down where there was less snowpack..I could get air off some of the waterbars..Mad Steezy Yo..


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## JD (Sep 8, 2007)

National is not machine groomed, but once it's a solid frozen base, all bumped up, it's takes a quite storm to get good coverage edge to edge, and the bumps are always there, lurking under the pow.  Not really the same as a nice blanketing of the natural terrain of the trail.  I love the section from where it crosses liftling to the top of the steep above midway.  Lots of undulation with some great airs.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jun 4, 2008)

bumpity


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 4, 2008)

I've never skied Sugarbush, but I have done Stowe a few times.  I vote Whiteface!


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## mattlucas (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm happy to have SB, Stowe, and MRG so close to each other, best skiing in the east. If only I could get in more days at all three...

...especially sugarbush!

zing!


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jun 19, 2008)

Bump for Stoke!!!


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