# Mountain Lions



## Connecticut (May 4, 2009)

I'm just curious about mountain lion sightings in New England.  I have never seen one myself, but I just recently heard rumors about one that may have been traveling through eastern Connecticut and western Rhode Island.  

Within the last 10-12 years, Connecticut has gained a stable black bear and coyote population and are just now accumulating some breading pairs of moose.  It seems as though the wild animals have become adapted to areas of higher population.  It would be unusual to think that mountain lions are migrating south as well.

At the same time, there was a rogue eastern grey wolf shot and killed in Mass, I think last year.


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## wa-loaf (May 4, 2009)

People are still debating whether they are in Northern New England. I'd say possible, but unlikely. I think we had a thread about this before.


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## bigbog (May 6, 2009)

*Suburban Sprawl becomes Rural Sprawl...*

Suburbs, with large acreage yards...expanded, becomes _rural sprawl_....  The more woodlands cleared, the more animals have to move.   What are now yards...used to be meadows/stashes for denning and/or food for the wild animals.   I think most all the animals mentioned don't migrate to any great degree...just to different terrain.
The NE mountain lion is pretty solitary...ie high and secluded terrain...(EDIT: ..just info that's evident in Maine)
$.01


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## severine (May 6, 2009)

There have been sightings in the Nassahegan area of CT (Burlington/Bristol line). My former boss also has seen one in the Salisbury/North Canaan region.


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## Greg (May 6, 2009)

severine said:


> There have been sightings in the Nassahegan area of CT (Burlington/Bristol line).



Bobcats. Not mountain lions.


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## Grassi21 (May 6, 2009)

Greg said:


> Bobcats. Not mountain lions.



Bobcats in Southbury CT as well.  There was also a supposed sighting of a MTN lion in the area as well.


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## Greg (May 6, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> Bobcats in Southbury CT as well.  There was also a supposed sighting of a MTN lion in the area as well.



Bocats are fairly common. We have one in our neighborhood too. My guess is any mountain lion "sightings" are bobcats mistaken for a mountain lion. Bobcat - 25 lbs. Mountain lion - 150 lbs. BIG difference. :-o


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## severine (May 6, 2009)

Greg said:


> Bobcats. Not mountain lions.


http://crankfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8170&p=71543&hilit=mountain+lion#p71543

ETA the other thread I was thinking of:
http://crankfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7327&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=mountain+lion

And more specifically:
http://crankfire.com/forum/viewtopi...sk=t&sd=a&hilit=mountain+lion&start=10#p63119


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## Grassi21 (May 6, 2009)

Greg said:


> Bocats are fairly common. We have one in our neighborhood too. My guess is any mountain lion "sightings" are bobcats mistaken for a mountain lion. Bobcat - 25 lbs. Mountain lion - 150 lbs. BIG difference. :-o



I agree with you and know the difference.  But the account I read from S'Bury said that the cat in question was quite large and had a long tail.  Bobcats have those short stubby tails.


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## Beetlenut (May 6, 2009)

There have been reports in South West RI about mountain lion sightings, and several horses have been killed by "something big". Vets in the area think it was done by a large cat, but the DEM does not want to acknowledge that because they would have to spend money on it!


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## Grassi21 (May 6, 2009)

Before everyone rights off big cats in the area....  just remember, Steve-O spotted several cougars in the Nass area.


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## Greg (May 6, 2009)

severine said:


> http://crankfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8170&p=71543&hilit=mountain+lion#p71543
> 
> ETA the other thread I was thinking of:
> http://crankfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7327&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=mountain+lion
> ...



The Lamson Corner cemetery is haunted too... :lol:

Seriously, totally possible, I guess. If I see one in there while mountain biking, I'm going to crap myself.


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## severine (May 6, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> Before everyone rights off big cats in the area....  just remember, Steve-O spotted several cougars in the Nass area.


I thought of that when I posted earlier. :lol:

Totally plausible. People didn't believe it when moose were first seen here.


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## Connecticut (May 6, 2009)

I have to admit that there are some nitwitted people out there that see a golden retriever and think it's a mountain lion, but the difference between a bobcat and a mountain lion is the same as the difference between getting a chill and having the crap scared out of you.  There is no comparison.  A mountain lion is ... well, a lion.  Even though it is considered a member of the small cat family, it weighs between 100-200 pounds.  A bocat is still scarey, especially if cornered, but you don't have to worry about it tearing your head off.

There have been lots of reports and I'm just curious if anyone on the forum has actually seen one.


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## Ski Diva (May 6, 2009)

Haven't seen any mountain lions or bobcats, but four fox kits are living under my porch! They were out playing in my yard today:


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## Trekchick (May 7, 2009)

I believe that there is a lot of wildlife in our surroundings that was unimaginable a few years ago.  Why not Mountain Lions?

When Black Bear was sighted in a womans back yard 10 years ago, just a few miles from me, many thought she was nuts, or that it was some kind of large dog.  Nope, it was a bear.
We see them frequently when we ride mt bikes and have had them on our front porch more than once.  Its a fascinating thing.


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## Talisman (May 7, 2009)

Southern New England could use a few apex predators like mountain lions and wolves to thin out the deer herds.  To have a breeding population of mountain lions locally would make trail running and mountain biking a little more thrilling with occiasonal attacks on humans like in California.  The coyotes and bobcats I've seen in the woods usually can't get away fast enough.


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## Connecticut (May 7, 2009)

Talisman said:


> To have a breeding population of mountain lions locally would make trail running and mountain biking a little more thrilling with occiasonal attacks on humans like in California.



I respectfully disagree.  I had lived in the Black Hills of South Dakota which is said to have the highest density of mountain lions in any area in the United States (estimated at 120) and there has never been an attack even with trail runners and mountain bikers.  The biggest difference is that the mountain lions' food source was plentiful in the Black Hills and scarce in California.  I think the food source is plentiful enough here to avoid attacks.  Even so, I was always a bit weirded out when mountain biking through the Black Hills and I will now be more often glancing over my shoulders.

An article about mountain lions in the northeast can be found here: http://ctxguide.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=887


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## sLoPeS (May 7, 2009)

I have not seen any bobcats or mtn lions in the CT area but I did see a full grown black bear crossing 185 simsbury road last summer on the simsbury side of the ridge heading south.  she didnt even blink at us, just keep on going.  we decided to hike north that day...


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## marcski (May 7, 2009)

I've seen a few coyote's here in Westchester county.  I'm sure they munch on small varmets and the occasional deer.  We have seen some deer quarters and leg remains in various states of decomposition in our local woods.  Our buddy, who's house abuts the woods, said that they see multiple coyotes in their yard often.  No bobcats or mountain lions down here.  (at least not that I know of).

oh, and skidiva...awesome looking fox pup!


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## Talisman (May 7, 2009)

Connecticut said:


> I respectfully disagree.  I had lived in the Black Hills of South Dakota which is said to have the highest density of mountain lions in any area in the United States (estimated at 120) and there has never been an attack even with trail runners and mountain bikers.  The biggest difference is that the mountain lions' food source was plentiful in the Black Hills and scarce in California.  I think the food source is plentiful enough here to avoid attacks.  Even so, I was always a bit weirded out when mountain biking through the Black Hills and I will now be more often glancing over my shoulders.
> [/url]



Like California, Southern New England has a much higher human population density than South Dakota if a an apex predator was to get a little hungry.


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## bigbog (May 7, 2009)

*friggin coyotes....*



marcski said:


> I've seen a few coyote's here in Westchester county.  I'm sure they munch on small varmets and the occasional deer.  We have seen some deer quarters and leg remains in various states of decomposition in our local woods.  Our buddy, who's house abuts the woods, said that they see multiple coyotes in their yard often.  No bobcats or mountain lions down here.  (at least not that I know of).
> 
> oh, and skidiva...awesome looking fox pup!


Coyotes eat anything..without much fear of anything = bad news for the rest of the local inhabitants.  Should be bounty on em' = $$$ in every state...imho.


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## catskills (May 8, 2009)

I definitely had a mountain liion sighting.  The mountain lion crossed the road 20 feet in front of my car as I was making a left turn off Route 30 enroute to Plattekill ski area to teach an NSP OEC class on a Sunday morning.  I had a student/friend in the passenger seat.  He saw him too.  There is no mistaking those big claws, long body, extremely long tail, and cat like running gate.   My buddy's  first response was that was definitely a very large cat.    After the class we came back looking for some fur he may have left but we could not find any.  It was a once in a life time privilege to see the big cat.  It was also very convenient  that we were in the well protected security of my car at the time.


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## Connecticut (May 9, 2009)

catskills said:


> I definitely had a mountain liion sighting.  The mountain lion crossed the road 20 feet in front of my car as I was making a left turn off Route 30 enroute to Plattekill ski area to teach an NSP OEC class on a Sunday morning.  I had a student/friend in the passenger seat.  He saw him too.  There is no mistaking those big claws, long body, extremely long tail, and cat like running gate.   My buddy's  first response was that was definitely a very large cat.    After the class we came back looking for some fur he may have left but we could not find any.  It was a once in a life time privilege to see the big cat.  It was also very convenient  that we were in the well protected security of my car at the time.



- Good story.

You demonstrated the problem of scientifically proving the range of the eastern mountain lion.   They have a way of disappearing without a trace (no prints or hair).


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## Connecticut (May 9, 2009)

Talisman said:


> Like California, Southern New England has a much higher human population density than South Dakota if a an apex predator was to get a little hungry.



Good point.

Next time I mountain bike I will tie porcupines all over me to fend off any attacks :lol:


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## Connecticut (May 9, 2009)

I wrote up my own article on mountain lions in the northeast here: http://ctxguide.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=887


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## MR. evil (May 9, 2009)

marcski said:


> I've seen a few coyote's here in Westchester county.  I'm sure they munch on small varmets and the occasional deer.  We have seen some deer quarters and leg remains in various states of decomposition in our local woods.  Our buddy, who's house abuts the woods, said that they see multiple coyotes in their yard often.  No bobcats or mountain lions down here.  (at least not that I know of).
> 
> oh, and skidiva...awesome looking fox pup!



How big do coyote's get?

A couple of months ago I was driving thru Suffield CT on my way to work. I was in pretty woodsy near the Metacomet trail, and area where my wife and I always see deer and wild Turkeys frequently. Almost every morning. I was at an intersection and what appeared to be a very large dog crossed to road very slowly. It was about the size of a large german sheapard and had a redish color furr. I would estimate it was about 100lbs to 120 lbs.  The way it looked, its size and the way it moved had me thinking it was a wolf for bit. I assumed it was a coyote. But I didn't think they got that big. I can say with certainty that it was not a domestic dog.


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## severine (May 9, 2009)

Coyotes don't get that big. Males can be up to 60 lbs but they're usually in the 40-50 lb range.


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## Connecticut (May 9, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> How big do coyote's get?...
> It was about the size of a large german sheapard and had a redish color furr. I would estimate it was about 100lbs to 120 lbs.  The way it looked, its size and the way it moved had me thinking it was a wolf for bit. I assumed it was a coyote. But I didn't think they got that big.



It's funny that you say that.  I saw an ENORMOUS coyote near Messerschmidt Pond a few months ago.  It was definitely a coyote, but it was very large.  If I were to guess, it appeared to be 60 pounds, but very tall and well above the norm.

It got me thinking about how the coyote is the apex predator here in CT and perhaps the coyotes are growing larger because of the abundant food source.  The coyotes in the Black Hills were never that big.


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## powhunter (May 10, 2009)

Grassi21 said:


> Before everyone rights off big cats in the area....  just remember, Steve-O spotted several cougars in the Nass area.




Yea but they were german cougars...Likely just transplants

steveo


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## Connecticut (May 10, 2009)

Beetlenut said:


> There have been reports in South West RI about mountain lion sightings, and several horses have been killed by "something big". Vets in the area think it was done by a large cat, but the DEM does not want to acknowledge that because they would have to spend money on it!



A mountain lion is the only animal capable of bringing down a horse.  Coyotes may nip at their legs, but this usually is due to a bleeding injury the horse already had.  

Are there any news articles or public meeting memos about this?


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## skizilla (May 10, 2009)

*Coyotes*

I too live neard suffield and at the bottom of the montain at 168 saw a run over coyote that was like the size of a small geman shepard.  They are fluffier though depending on the time of year so i can totaly see the upper weight limit but according to a book I have read the upward range of weight is 60 pounds or so.  Mountain lions i will believe when people start running them over.  I commute through the barkahamsted resevoir area about as wild an area as you will find in lower new engl;and and have seen everything alive on that road and in most cases flat and have yet to see anything resembling a big cat.


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## Connecticut (May 10, 2009)

skizilla said:


> I commute through the barkahamsted resevoir area about as wild an area as you will find in lower new engl;and and have seen everything alive on that road and in most cases flat and have yet to see anything resembling a big cat.



That's what I said about the tooth fairy! :lol:

Any black bears as road kill along 168?

The weird thing is that many of the returning wild animals have become very adapted to the human population.  For example, black bears will occasionally shack out under a backyard deck for hybernation and coyotes don't care where they end up.  So just because an area is for wilderness-like doesn't mean that all of the animals are naturally attracted to that spot.

Check out this link: http://farshores.org/c_mlion2.htm


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## bigbog (May 10, 2009)

*....Food supply not used to coyote addition..*

Yep,
The two coyotes I've seen in the last six years have been a bit bigger and fatter than any images of western coyotes.  They'll also mate with dogs that are loose, roaming in woodlands.  Coydogs are supposed to be the ultra-mean...
Hope coyote hunters have been having good luck.  Hate the damn things....disruptive to natural NE food chain.


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## Connecticut (May 11, 2009)

bigbog said:


> Yep,
> They'll also mate with dogs that are loose, roaming in woodlands.  Coydogs are supposed to be the ultra-mean...
> .



Oh man, I didn't know that.  Hmmm, I wonder what a coyote would look like if it mated with a pitbull or a poodle - or a great dane!   Better yet, a weiner dog!


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## catskills (May 11, 2009)

Connecticut said:


> Oh man, I didn't know that.  Hmmm, I wonder what a coyote would look like if it mated with a pitbull or a poodle - or a great dane!   Better yet, a weiner dog!


Actually coydogs were thought to be the reason why the Coyote is now larger than it was last century.   Through DNA analysis they found out that Coyotes have been bread with wolves.  the 150 lb Wolves are just a tad too big to live in well populated areas. The new coyote with wolf blood line at 50 to 70 lbs is perfect for living in around people with the ability to kill deer, rabbits, house cats, domestic dogs, etc.  I hear the coyotes up on the mountain in back of my house about once a month.  I live in West Hurley near Woodstock, NY. The dear are now bedding down at night near the houses.  Fortunately, the coyotes don't come down to hunt dear in between the houses.


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## Connecticut (May 11, 2009)

catskills said:


> Through DNA analysis they found out that Coyotes have been bread with wolves.




I'm learning a lot about coyotes.  This would explain the pretty damn big coyote that I saw (either wolf or dog mix).  Is the wolf-bread human introduced or natural?


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## bigbog (May 12, 2009)

*...most probably...*

Could probably add...overly well-fed.


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## marcski (May 12, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> How big do coyote's get?
> 
> A couple of months ago I was driving thru Suffield CT on my way to work. I was in pretty woodsy near the Metacomet trail, and area where my wife and I always see deer and wild Turkeys frequently. Almost every morning. I was at an intersection and what appeared to be a very large dog crossed to road very slowly. It was about the size of a large german sheapard and had a redish color furr. I would estimate it was about 100lbs to 120 lbs.  The way it looked, its size and the way it moved had me thinking it was a wolf for bit. I assumed it was a coyote. But I didn't think they got that big. I can say with certainty that it was not a domestic dog.



Sounds like it was a big coyote.  They are hairy..and get stragly and I think appear bigger than they are.  I saw one that, at first glance, looked just like a german shepard as well.  I was driving in my car right around the corner from my house..when I saw it I stopped...and made eye contact with it and it stared me down for a while, before calmly turning and walking into the woods.


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## billski (May 13, 2009)

Greg said:


> Bobcats. Not mountain lions.



+1

We have a coyote den in the woods near us.  I keep trying to encourage the family cockapoo to go play with them.  I think they would get along famously!  After all, they are both canines! :blink:  My wife is aghast.   :lol:


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## billski (May 13, 2009)

bigbog said:


> Coyotes eat anything..without much fear of anything = bad news for the rest of the local inhabitants.  Should be bounty on em' = $$$ in every state...imho.


  All the neighborhood cats that used to roam have all disappeared since the coyotes moved in.   Interestingly, the rabbits, are back, since the cats are gone.  Interesting chain of events....  Cat stew must be more tasty than rabbit stew.... hmmm.....


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## billski (May 13, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> How big do coyote's get?
> 
> A couple of months ago I was driving thru Suffield CT on my way to work. I was in pretty woodsy near the Metacomet trail, and area where my wife and I always see deer and wild Turkeys frequently. Almost every morning. I was at an intersection and what appeared to be a very large dog crossed to road very slowly. It was about the size of a large German sheapard and had a redish color furr. I would estimate it was about 100lbs to 120 lbs.  The way it looked, its size and the way it moved had me thinking it was a wolf for bit. I assumed it was a coyote. But I didn't think they got that big. I can say with certainty that it was not a domestic dog.


  badabing!  It's a coyote.  You've probably overestimated its size.  Their fur is usually matted, pretty unkempt, with pieces missing due to an altercation or two.  They have a pretty good speed when trotting and are pretty skiddish about people.    The fur is usually a brownish-blackish, depending on what they've been into.  They don't get to Supercuts very often


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## billski (May 13, 2009)

catskills said:


> I definitely had a mountain liion sighting.  The mountain lion crossed the road 20 feet in front of my car as I was making a left turn off Route 30 enroute to Plattekill ski area to teach an NSP OEC class on a Sunday morning.  I had a student/friend in the passenger seat.  He saw him too.  There is no mistaking those big claws, long body, extremely long tail, and cat like running gate.   My buddy's  first response was that was definitely a very large cat.    After the class we came back looking for some fur he may have left but we could not find any.  It was a once in a life time privilege to see the big cat.  It was also very convenient  that we were in the well protected security of my car at the time.



Did you check the news to be certain something hadn't escaped from a collection or zoo?
http://connecticuthuntingtoday.com/...t-resident-claims-to-have-seen-mountain-lion/

In NYS last week a walaroo escaped and has been impossible to catch, jumping all around the Thruway.  I really doubt that a mountain lion would be living freely in these parts of America.  Imagine poor muffy.........:blink:


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## wa-loaf (May 13, 2009)

Connecticut said:


> Oh man, I didn't know that.  Hmmm, I wonder what a coyote would look like if it mated with a pitbull or a poodle - or a great dane!   Better yet, a weiner dog!


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## catskills (May 16, 2009)

*Police Shock Toy Cougar With Taser*

Police Shock Toy Cougar With Taser


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## billski (May 16, 2009)

catskills said:


> Police Shock Toy Cougar With Taser


 
Hmm.  Combine alcohol with laid-off auto workers, you never know what might happen...


To think, I was worried about black bears for tomorrow's hike.  I'm never going hiking in Detroit.:-o

You had me too, I thought it was alive, "toy" like in "toy poodle".  :dunce:


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## Connecticut (May 16, 2009)

catskills said:


> Police Shock Toy Cougar With Taser



Wow, that was dumb.


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## playoutside (May 19, 2009)

Saw a pretty big coyote this weekend.  I was walking in a forest preserve in Northern Illinois and a german shepherd height (not weight) animal stepped onto the trail about 50 yds in front of us.  He headed back into the woods and watched us as we watched him.  He tracked with us for about a qtr mile.  Tried to get a picture, but he really blended well with his surroundings so the picture is crap.  It was definitely the largest coyote I've seen, prob not more than 70lbs, but taller than those I've seen in NJ and MA.  We debated whether it was a wild dog or a coyote.  My take is its was a well fed coyote...lots of deer snacks for him in that preserve.


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## KingM (Jun 21, 2009)

Connecticut said:


> I have to admit that there are some nitwitted people out there that see a golden retriever and think it's a mountain lion



I had a guest at the inn freak out once about a black bear he'd seen down in the woods. Turned out it was a black lab and he'd only caught a glimpse of it going into the brush.



> but the difference between a bobcat and a mountain lion is the same as the difference between getting a chill and having the crap scared out of you.  There is no comparison.  A mountain lion is ... well, a lion.
> 
> There have been lots of reports and I'm just curious if anyone on the forum has actually seen one.



I used to spend a lot of time camping out west. I was near Moab once on BLM land as a Boy Scout and we were exploring a cave when we came across a half-eaten deer. We started to back our way out of the cave and only then saw the paw prints and the piles of scat near the entrance.

Another time I was camping with the scouts and heard a blood curdling cry from what we believe was a mountain lion. Sounded a couple of hundred yards distance and I can tell you that we piled some extra wood on the fire and slept very uneasily that night. I heard later that they make that call during mating season, so it's likely he had other things on his mind than eating some scouts sleeping with their Swiss army knives clenched in hand.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jun 21, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


>



wtf???


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## marcski (Jun 21, 2009)

http://www.tampabay.com/video/?bcpid=2441023001&bctid=26644383001


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## bigbog (Jun 24, 2009)

*Mtn Lion/Cougar....*

;-)..Just browsed to yours marcski....interesting how people don't know what a mountain lion/cougar looks like...ie what color coat...type of body..etc.  It's a typical mountain lion or cougar(by another name)..  Yeah, they've been in the Everglades for quite a while....and now so are constrictors....hypothesized big pythons hiding in the deeper areas...with the Dade Cty. snake team catching em'(like on the Animal Planet episodes) coming over into suburban yards....


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## billski (Jun 24, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> wtf???




A creature that was found dead after apparently being hit by a car in Turner, Maine, is shown Saturday, Aug. 12, 2006. For the past 15 years, residents across Androscoggin County have reported seeing and hearing a mysterious animal with chilling monstrous cries and eyes that glow in the night. Now, residents are wondering if the animal found dead over the weekend may be the mysterious creature that has mauled dogs, frightened residents and been the subject of local legend for half a generation. Photo courtesy of Michelle O’Donnell

wiki:

An animal, at first unidentified but later confirmed by genetic testing to be a wolf-dog hybrid, was struck and killed by a vehicle in Turner on August 16, 2006. Prior to its identification as a dog, some speculated that it was the mysterious creature described in recent local legend, supposedly responsible for attacks on domestic animals, some fatal. Initial reports and photographs of this "hybrid mutant" rapidly generated widespread attention from news media and Internet users around the world, though less reported photos clearly showed an animal that looked like a large dog.
 The Turner Beast was the subject for the History Channel's regular series Monster Quest in a show titled *Mutant Canines* which aired December 5, 2007. The show explored the mysterious beast with the analysis of experts in the field as well as trying to capture the animal on camera. Nothing new materialized from this exploit.


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