# Boot Flex



## twinplanx (May 16, 2020)

I'm considering some new boots. I live in the Flatlands so this will be an web purchase. I'm considering flex in the range between 100-120. I guess I'm an advanced-intermediant skier.  My glory days may behind me, but I do enjoy sking Black Diamonds. I have attempted Double Blacks, but at that point its more survival mode then actual skiing. My tecninc could use some improvement. Lol

 I'm embarrassed to admit  I have never paid much attention to boot flex. I just bought the boots I could afford. I'm finally in a position to get some decent boots, but I still want to get a good deal. The big questions are:  Will I notice a difference between 100-120 flex?  Should I consider something even stiffer since I am over 200lbs? Does weight even matter in terms of flex?  

 I thought there was a category for gear related posts here, but I couldn't find it. Anyway thanks in advance for any assistance here. Looking foward to some sort of normal 2020-2021 ski season [emoji482]

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## thebigo (May 16, 2020)

Best advice I can offer is to not buy boots online. Best case scenario you use your boots in roughly six months. Wait until things get better and visit an established shop. If the boot fitter gives you less than a half dozen boots to try on, find another shop. Personally I have found superfeet to be a worthwhile investment.

One of my kids coaches once told me there are only three reasons people stop skiing: too expensive, too cold or their boots hurts. Eliminate the one you can.


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## Edd (May 16, 2020)

I believe weight does matter, like it matters when you’re deciding on skis. You’ll also hear that flex ratings aren’t the same across the industry. I’ve bought a lot of ski gear online, but never boots. 


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## mister moose (May 16, 2020)

Boots are first about fit, then performance.  Very few skiers are going to get a good fit right out of the box off the internet.  Realize a good fit doesn't mean just comfortable, it needs to be superb foot/ski contact and then be as comfortable as possible.

On that vein, consider custom footbeds, they are one of the biggest bang for the buck items in achieving the best fit.  So right away you're into purchasing from a good boot fitter in a quality shop, not a big box store or the internet.

When it comes to what in your old boots may be holding you back, you don't know what you don't know.  If you can afford it, discover what great boots do for your skiing.  Some shells are now heat moldable, another process best done by a knowledgeable fitter.

Flex is somewhat up to you.  As a general rule, the better the boot, the higher the flex, up to about 120.  Over that starts looking more like a race boot.  You're looking for the forward pressure you send to the boot to get transferred to the ski.  If the boot mushes out instead of resisting, that pressure doesn't get delivered.  You also want side strength to deliver strong edge control, and a firm fit to deliver those pressure changes and not get lost in liner slop or compression.

Many intermediates don't ski the front of the boot, and if you aren't sure what flex you need, this may describe you.  You're right that tall and weighty will need a higher flex.  Try on 100 and compare it to 120.  You should be able to flex the boot to get your knee over your toe.  If you can't do that in a 65 degree store, you'll be in a really stiff boot in 20 degree ski day.  Yet another reason to buy in a good ski shop.  I'll go even farther, and tell you that you should try on several boots in at least 2 different shops, talking to 2 different boot fitters.  If you want to improve your skiing, you need to do the time.

After that, take a few lessons to get some instruction on stance, timing and pressure management during the turn.


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## twinplanx (May 16, 2020)

There are 2/3 somewhat legitimate ski shops on all of Long Island. One of them may have 6 boots in my range to try on. I doubt there is a decent bootfitter anywhere on this island. I hoping to find a boot that fits well enough to be tweaked by a bootfitter up North. 

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## skiur (May 16, 2020)

Don't buy your boots online or from a ski shop in the flatlands, go to a good shop in the mountains.  I buy almost all my gear online but for boots you need a good boot fitter and you will most likely have to go back to him/her for adjustments after a few days.  Also I highly recommend getting custom footbeds with your boots.  Ask the fitter your questions about flex.


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## BenedictGomez (May 16, 2020)

The frustrating thing about boot flex is it isnt standardized.  What this essentially means is boot flex doesnt really exist.  I mean, sure, boot flex is of course a real thing, but if a 100 boot flex in Nordica is a 90 boot flex in Lange & a 110 boot flex in Rossignol, then it's value as a metric isnt as valuable as I think the typical consumer marketed to (who I dont believe understands this) believes.


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## mister moose (May 16, 2020)

Choose your compromise.  If you want to be passionate and be the best skier you can be, get yourself to an excellent boot fitter.  Prices now until this fall should be as good as they'll ever be.  In the mountain shops most boot fitters are gone in the summer, so call around.  Buy boots where you ski.  If you're a roamer and ski all around different places, then you have another compromise.  No decent after the sale service.  What if you buy a boot and it turns out to be a half size too big?  Then the best fitter in the world won't be able to fix it, only make do with it.  What if a better boot for you didn't feel right off the shelf, but when molded correctly would have been the best boot for you?

As an intermediate, some of the what the best boots offer will be lost on you.  But wouldn't you rather have some headroom to grow, rather than be limited by what you bought?  I guarantee you that if you get your first well fitted responsive boot, you will have a revelation on your skiing.  So much so it might feel like you can't quite ski your old way on your new boots.  And after only a few days you'll realize how much you didn't know.

If you aren't that passionate, then make your best guess on what will work for you, and go with that inevitable set of compromises.  Be advised that most people choose the wrong shell and shell size when on their own.  I appreciate your desire to get a good deal.  The problem is boots are the most labor intensive piece of equipment to buy, so it's hard to get that quality labor on the internet or big box store.  You just can't go that route to get the good fit that better skiing requires.  (You should plan on several after-sale tweaks) So the best deal on boots is the off season.  Late spring or early fall at a knowledgeable well stocked dedicated ski shop.  There's a few places where there's lots of quality shops - Killington and Ludlow for instance.  Maybe North Conway, but I'm not a NH skier.  Save your internet deals for tickets/passes, jackets, gloves, poles, maybe skis.


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## Edd (May 16, 2020)

Fit is so goddamn important. I think I’m on my 4th set of boots lifetime. Two seasons ago I got Atomic Hawx 110. I’d been fitted for boots every time but I think they were always too big. I dropped a full size and, at the beginning of the last two seasons, I experienced foot PAIN like I’d never felt, causing a couple of short days. It went away after a few days each season. 

However, the fit is incredible. My bump skiing has improved, and the boots are light AF. For the first time, boots were a game changer for me. 


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## mister moose (May 16, 2020)

Edd said:


> ...but I think they were always too big.* I dropped a full size* and, at the beginning of the last two seasons, I experienced foot PAIN like I’d never felt, causing a couple of short days. *It went away after a few days each season.
> *
> However, *the fit is incredible*. My bump skiing has improved, and the boots are light AF. For the first time, boots were a *game changer *for me.



Exhibit A.


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## ss20 (May 16, 2020)

+1 on don't buy online and +1 on don't buy in the flatlands.  Bought boots a couple years ago from a very good shop in CT.  I had a growth develop on top of my foot.  They tried some stuff but couldn't really fix anything for me.  Northern Ski Works in Ludlow fixed me right up in two visits- more experience and more equipment to work with.


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## BenedictGomez (May 16, 2020)

Edd said:


> Two seasons ago I got *Atomic Hawx* 110. I’d been fitted for boots every time but I think they were always too big. I dropped a full size and, at the beginning of the last two seasons, I experienced foot PAIN like I’d never felt, causing a couple of short days. It went away after a few days each season. However, the fit is incredible. My bump skiing has improved, and the boots are light AF. For the first time, boots were a game changer for me.



My wife has those boots and loves them so much she bought a 2nd pair on clearance a year later just in case they stopped making them.


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## twinplanx (May 16, 2020)

I have read your replys and trust me I value all your input, but I really think online is the way to go for me. I'm comfortable shelling out 300 bucks on a pair of boots. If they don't fit I can return them. Some of the reviews even mention bootfitter tweaking, so I'm fairly confident this can be done at a shop even if I didn't buy them there. If I have to shell out more in the area of $500 I want to try them on in a store. 

  The whole process seems grueling and it's not unreasonable to expect mercants to be accommodated for any service provided. But trying on multiple boots at different shops seems extreme. I should mention that I would be lucky to ski 10 days in a season, so thats a factor in my purchase. On the same token, I would like to make the most of those days. 

  I would rather be able to say, "I can ski a Black Diamond well" then "well, I skied a Double Black..."

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## Smellytele (May 16, 2020)

With that said Try them on at places near you. At least you get an idea how they fit out of the box. Different boots fit differently. Going in totally blind you’ll have a bigger chance of getting something that sucks for you.


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## cdskier (May 16, 2020)

thebigo said:


> If the boot fitter gives you less than a half dozen boots to try on, find another shop.



I don't particularly agree with this. A good bootfitter should right away be able to narrow down the brands to what will fit your shape foot the best. So off the bat you should be looking at maybe 2 or 3 brands. And within each brand, maybe 2-3 options based on what you describe as your skill level and what you're looking for. I think I tried 3 maybe 4 last time I got boots (and the shop had plenty of other choices to pick from...but they just wouldn't have been right for me).



twinplanx said:


> I have read your replys and trust me I value all your input, but I really think online is the way to go for me. I'm comfortable shelling out 300 bucks on a pair of boots. If they don't fit I can return them. Some of the reviews even mention bootfitter tweaking, so I'm fairly confident this can be done at a shop even if I didn't buy them there.



No doubt you can get another shop to tweak them (at a cost if you didn't buy them there of course), but also keep in mind there is a limit to what they can do. If you bought something that is completely wrong for your shape foot, it simply may not be possible to make them work properly for you no matter how much tweaking you do.


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## machski (May 16, 2020)

Do yourself a favor and do not buy boots online.  Go to a good shop, spend some time and get fit for your specific foot type and size.  Some brands will work well for a specific type of foot, some won't.  I am about 170 and 5'7", I ski on a 130 flex which is very solid in all conditions.  The reason is I like the instant response and feedback I get without much "play" first in the boot.  The big problem if you haven't paid attention to flext before, it is harder to notice a difference in the shop where the boots are warm.  A warm boot vs a cold boot will obviously flex quite a bit differently due to plastics.  

If you are mostly a laid back, maybe black skier and doesn't push the speed, 120 flex should be more than enough and if you want a more casual fitting and flexing boot, back off to 100-110.  But fit to your foot type first and foremost is probably more critical for you than the flex rating.

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## dblskifanatic (May 16, 2020)

I find this interesting!  I have shopped online since 2007 mostly on Evo.com.  We have not gone in to a store for a boot purchase since.  We know what flex range we like, we know our foot last, we know what we want for features and most of all we stay in a couple boot brands Lange and Dalbello.  We are also not a cram the toe in types.  Feet get cold fast with a tiny bit of wiggle room feet do not get cold so fast.  We are also lucky none of us - wife myself and four boys ever had foot issues.  Also, I certainly do not find a good store and pay their price.  I would want to shop around - screw driving to find a deal.  Online I can find compare read reviews and find the best pricing - also buy last year models.

With all that.  If you never had stiffer boots then I would agree with going to a shop.  If you do not mind shipping things back then you can try online.  We have only one return and was due to my son not liking the flex of his new boots.  

I think in the 110-120 range there is not make a huge difference but your size might find the difference.




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## twinplanx (May 16, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> If you do not mind shipping things back then you can try online.  We have only one return and was due to my son not liking the flex of his new boots.
> 
> I think in the 110-120 range there is not make a huge difference but your size might find the difference.
> 
> ...



 Was your son able to determine the flex wasn't right out of the box or did he need a few days on the hill?  This is one of my concerns with an online purchase. I'd like to have this all figured out for the few days I do get out.  I don't think I'd be able to return boots online by the time ski season rolls around. 

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## deadheadskier (May 16, 2020)

Ultimately it comes down to performance expectations regarding how much you want to invest and the path you take. There's no substitute for a professional boot fitter.  Everyone can also benefit from custom footbeds and booster straps instead of stock footbeds and powerstraps.

IMO the best there is, is Paul Richelson at Richelson's Feet First.  I've used other well respected fitters such as Shon at The Boot Pro at Okemo and Benny Wax at Inner Bootworks in Stowe. No one I've found is as detail oriented as Paul. 

http://www.richelsonsfeetfirst.com/

He's a Pedorthist. Doesn't run a ski shop. He's a professional footwear fitter and has US Ski team members as his clients as well as professional runners.  

His process is totally unique.  There's more to ski boots than just BSL, Last and Flex.  You can't read that information on a webpage and ascertain how a boot will truly fit.  It's really more about volume across multiple measurement points. 

 What he does is spend about an hour evaluating your feet and how you walk. He measures last not just at the forefoot, but also the mid-foot and heel. He measures your instep height. He measures leg circumference immediately above your ankle, at the mid-calf and at the cuff.  

He then matches all of your measurements to a database he maintains of about 8-10 yearly models per major brand of ski boots. Each summer he has all the manufacturers send him boots and he takes the exact same measurements inside the ski boots as he takes of his clients feet.  

Then it's just a matter of taking your feet measurements and finding the closest matched ski boots.  He gives you a list of 6-8 boots closest to your personal foot anatomy.  You go try and buy your boots elsewhere whether online or at a ski shop.  You bring your boots back to him and he dials them in.  

Paul's process plus custom foot beds runs about $325.  Totally worth it IMO.  Based upon my terrain preferences and performance expectations, Paul had me pick up boots not one size down from street shoes, but two sizes.   Many professional racers actually go down three sizes.  I asked him specifically for prior year models so I could save money buying them online. Picked up the prior year Rossignol Alltrack Pro 130 for $300.  So, I'm into the boots for $625.  Seems pretty fair to me for the most important piece of your equipment.  

 The boots hurt like a MFer the first ten days out.  I had to go back twice to have him blow the shells out a little bit here and a little bit there.  But, once he fine tuned them, they fit like a pair of latex gloves. Absolutely zero slop anywhere. 

The investment of $625 moving forward takes on a different ownership thought process as well.  The foot beds were $125. The expected life is about 500 days.  A ski boot shell has a life expectancy of about 250 days and a liner about 125.  Given I ski about 30 days a year, that means after year 4 I'll just buy new liners.  Probably pay $175 or so.  Year 8, replace the shells which will also include new liners at say $300 again.  Year 12 replace the liners again for $175.  Throw in a few refitting and shell work charges at $100 each.

So, I'm at $625+$175+$300+$175+$300 for a total of $1575

Compare that with spending $300 every 3 years just buying boots off the shelf.  Why 3 years? Poorly fitting boots will have their liners break down in about 100 days for an aggressive skier.  Slop contributes to liners breaking down more rapidly.  So, under that model I'd spend $1600 skiing in boots that don't fit as well contributing to worse performance.  i.e. spend more money than  the "expensive" custom experience for lesser skiing satisfaction. 

If Central NH is convenient to you, visit Richelson's. He has offices in Plymouth and Bow. 

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## ScottySkis (May 16, 2020)

I agree with majority of posts yes great boot fitting make huge difference in my ski experiences

Check pro shop by Hunter ski area in Catskills

The Pro Ski and Ride is Closed for the Season

Please click on the link for an update from The Pro on operations and seasonal rental returns.

https://mailchi.mp/8309e437fcd8/the-pro-ski-and-ride-is-closed-for-the-season-2710067


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## machski (May 17, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> I find this interesting!  I have shopped online since 2007 mostly on Evo.com.  We have not gone in to a store for a boot purchase since.  We know what flex range we like, we know our foot last, we know what we want for features and most of all we stay in a couple boot brands Lange and Dalbello.  We are also not a cram the toe in types.  Feet get cold fast with a tiny bit of wiggle room feet do not get cold so fast.  We are also lucky none of us - wife myself and four boys ever had foot issues.  Also, I certainly do not find a good store and pay their price.  I would want to shop around - screw driving to find a deal.  Online I can find compare read reviews and find the best pricing - also buy last year models.
> 
> With all that.  If you never had stiffer boots then I would agree with going to a shop.  If you do not mind shipping things back then you can try online.  We have only one return and was due to my son not liking the flex of his new boots.
> 
> ...


I know my last sizing, but I can tell you the toe box can vary greatly from brand to brand.  I have found Atomics match my feet best, currently am in the White/Red Hawk Ultra 130.  While I could buy them online, these boots are designed to have the shells baked and then liners and feet in to mold for a form fit.  I would not try doing that on my own, and if you don't buy from a shop, they will (and rightfully should) charge you for that service.  Some folks are lucky an off the shelf boot works ok for them.  But even if that is the case, I can guarantee a boot selected just for your foot form and the custom fit would take your skiing to a whole other level.

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## elks (May 17, 2020)

If you are in CT, you may want to consider a drive up to MA to see Tim Mitchell. He's the bootfitter at SkiMD in Natick, MA and ex-racer, ex-ski racing coach at Brighton, UT and for the Harvard Ski Team. He holds a master degree in Exercise Physiology/Biomechanics. 

SkiMD is not a ski shop. They do not sell skis or boots. They specialize in servicing skis and boots for ski racers. Top of the line work. Time will work with you to recommend the right boot to purchase and then bootfit as needed. 

https://skimd.com/


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## WWF-VT (May 17, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> I have read your replys and trust me I value all your input, but I really think online is the way to go for me. I'm comfortable shelling out 300 bucks on a pair of boots. If they don't fit I can return them. Some of the reviews even mention bootfitter tweaking, so I'm fairly confident this can be done at a shop even if I didn't buy them there. If I have to shell out more in the area of $500 I want to try them on in a store.
> 
> The whole process seems grueling and it's not unreasonable to expect mercants to be accommodated for any service provided. But trying on multiple boots at different shops seems extreme. I should mention that I would be lucky to ski 10 days in a season, so thats a factor in my purchase. On the same token, I would like to make the most of those days.
> 
> ...



Good luck finding a performance boot that fits without any issues for $300.  Like just about everyone in his thread has told you - go to a shop with a real bootfitter and be prepared to spend north of $500 for the right boot for you.


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## mister moose (May 17, 2020)

This thread illustrates the dilemma of the 10 day a year skier that wants to choose equipment knowledgably and advance to being a better skier.  It's even worse when the 10 day a year skier lives far from the skiing.  Gifted athletes aside, the average 10 day a year skier is going to plateau on skill level.  10 days just isn't enough days on snow for the average cubicle dweller to be able to get out there and rip it up.  If I were to rate my overall athleticism on a scale of 1-10, I'd give myself a 4.  I'm just not the first guy picked for softball.  Ever.  But because I ski 100 days a year, and benefited from lots of coaching,  I ski at 8.5.  The same can be said for ski equipment knowledge.  If you ski a bunch of different skis over 100 days, you know where you're headed to buy the next pair.

That said, how does the 10 day a year skier maximize his equipment choices and skill advancement?

1)  Recognize you should get 150, maybe 200 days out of your boots before the liners pack out.  At 10 days a year, that's 15-20 years.  If you spend another $200 to get a significantly better boot and fit, that's an extra $13 a year over 15 years.  

2)  Recognize the $300 boot just doesn't have the goods the $500 boot does.  I have never, ever, not in the deepest off season sale, seen the boot I ski for $300.

3) Consider ways to squeeze more days in.  Make it a 3 day weekend instead of a 2 day.  Do some day trips to  whatever is closest. 

4)  Realize that a superb fit in a $300 boot is probably going to ski better than a lousy fit in a $500 boot.  

5)  Realize that assuming you have at least a mediocre fit and mediocre skis the reason you have difficulty in skiing Black trails is something foundational in your skiing, not so much your equipment.  Seek to fix that as well.

What better boots will deliver is support for high pressure spikes in the trough of a mogul or in the apex of the turn.  You will be able to support the edge of the ski with far less effort at higher edge angles and higher G forces.  You will be able to wear the boot longer, more hours in a day.  You will be able to ski with precision, the slightest adjustment in your foot/calf gets transmitted to the ski exactly.  You will have the feeling of being welded to your skis, the skis are a natural extension of your leg, as opposed to feeling like your skis have a mind of their own sometimes.

I am not the same skier at day 1 as I am at day 20, or day 40, or day 60.  Day 10?  Just getting the cobwebs out and feeling my limitations.  Day 60?  Legs do what I want without asking.  Day 100?  I can ski with big energy for long distance.   There is no substitute for days on snow.  There just isn't.


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## dblskifanatic (May 17, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> Was your son able to determine the flex wasn't right out of the box or did he need a few days on the hill?  This is one of my concerns with an online purchase. I'd like to have this all figured out for the few days I do get out.  I don't think I'd be able to return boots online by the time ski season rolls around.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



It was a gradual change over the years.  Their feet changed in size over the years as we made boot purchases we bought stiffer boots because their progress was really good.  They all ended around 110 flex in the Dalbello line.  They are all around 6 ft tall and ski a wide variety of terrain.

Also too soft allows for cases where one cheats into the back seat and the stiffer boots prevent that to a degree.  They all have a good forward lean these days as I stress that stance.


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## kingslug (May 18, 2020)

It like when they tell someone who is just starting out to get cheap stuff..then they have a miserable time and quite..usually because their feet are killing them. Boots are the most important part..if your feet hurt because of a bad fit and your all over the place..then your having a bad time. Get good boots from a shop and have them fitted. $300.00 is what decent pants cost...boots $500.00 to $1000. 00
For a 15 year investment..thats not bad. Its like buying tools..crappy tools..crappy work and they end up in the garbage. 
I'm 215 and use a 130 flex..and I pound the shit out of them at very high speeds..never felt they were too soft. But flex is brand specific and I use AT boots which are usually not as stiff as regular boots but much lighter.


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## mbedle (May 18, 2020)

Not a skier here, but did have a friend that built a modifiable flex system on my boots. Still playing around with exactly what is the best level for each foot.


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## Domeskier (May 18, 2020)

kingslug said:


> It like when they tell someone who is just starting out to get cheap stuff..then they have a miserable time and quite..usually because their feet are killing them.



The cheap stuff is usually quite comfortable - that's the main focus of the base product lines.  It's when your feet are wedged into poorly fitted performance boots that pain happens.  The main problem with the cheap stuff, as others have mentioned, is the slop the comes from boots designed for comfort out of the box.  A 10-day a year skier won't reach the apex of the sport in cheap, comfort focused boots, but that's true even if he's skiing Lindsay Vonn's boot.  A cheap boot might hold him back a bit, but it's not going to prevent improvement, and if he improves to the point where he feels like cheap boots are a liability, that's the time for him to consider a properly fitted performance boot.


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## Not Sure (May 18, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> The cheap stuff is usually quite comfortable - that's the main focus of the base product lines.  It's when your feet are wedged into poorly fitted performance boots that pain happens.  The main problem with the cheap stuff, as others have mentioned, is the slop the comes from boots designed for comfort out of the box.  A 10-day a year skier won't reach the apex of the sport in cheap, comfort focused boots, but that's true even if he's skiing Lindsay Vonn's boot.  A cheap boot might hold him back a bit, but it's not going to prevent improvement, and if he improves to the point where he feels like cheap boots are a liability, that's the time for him to consider a properly fitted performance boot.



+1 Good point. A power strap will help stiffen up a bit for not a lot of money. 
I have a pair of Scarps AT boots that I was able to buy stiffer tongues , made a big difference. 

https://boosterstrap.com/


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## darent (May 18, 2020)

PUGSKI.COM has a nifty little article on boot buying,It answers a lot of questions and gives good direction on the buying process. Check it out


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## twinplanx (May 19, 2020)

mbedle said:


> Not a skier here, but did have a friend that built a modifiable flex system on my boots. Still playing around with exactly what is the best level for each foot. View attachment 26869


So, if you are not a skier, what are you using these boots for? Snowboarding?

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## mbedle (May 19, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> So, if you are not a skier, what are you using these boots for? Snowboarding?
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



I use them for alpine snowboarding.


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## granite (May 19, 2020)

I have never purchased a pair of ski boots without putting my feet into the shell with out the liner.  Slide your toes to the front of the boot so they are just touching the toe box of the shell, there should be about 1/2 inch of space between your heel and the back of the shell.


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## Bumpsis (May 19, 2020)

twinplanx, if you typically have no issues with your feet and most shoes that you buy fit you just fine, you'll probably do just fine buying ski boots on-line. If you ever bought something like really sturdy hiking boots and they fit you fine with little or no break-in time, buy your new ski boots on line. 

As to the flex, I'd get something with a flex of 100. As it was mentioned (BG), this index is not a uniform standard among manufactures, but in general,flex of 100 will be probably medium.
This will give you plenty of push power to carve even on more demanding terrain and also give you nice comfy feel. Unless you're piloting super stiff skis, medium flex will work great. Stiff boots will beat up your shins and keep sending you into the back seat. 

 Looks like most people who have already offered their advice are steering you towards buying in a shop and especially, using a bootfitter. This bootfitting thing is probably a good way to go if you have foot issues but if you don't, why pay for the premium service that you may not need. Don't get me wrong, some people really need the custom fit but I feel that one can get obsessed with that. 

 For some people the bootfitting and footbeds is a religion and unless they spent a fortune on the boots and then had them worked on, they feel they are not getting the full experience.
Buying in a shop can also be a sketchy experience and you may end up in a boot that's just not right for you. And you'll pay premium for the experience. A shop just wants to make a sale and often, you're being serviced by some clueless kid who is just doing his job.

I've bought a few boots from EVO over the years for my two sons and my wife and everyone is very happy with what they have. I am especially happy with a pair of Dalbello Panterras I bought a few years back. Here's and example:
https://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-s...274/dalbello-panterra-100-ski-boots-2019-.jpg
Just for reference, I'm about 175lb and ski most of the terrain here in the east as well as out west.


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## mister moose (May 19, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> For some people the bootfitting and footbeds is a religion and unless they spent a fortune on the boots and then had them worked on, they feel they are not getting the full experience.
> Buying in a shop can also be a sketchy experience and you may end up in a boot that's just not right for you. And you'll pay premium for the experience. A shop just wants to make a sale and often, you're being serviced by some clueless kid who is just doing his job.
> 
> Just for reference, I'm about 175lb and ski most of the terrain here in the east as well as out west.



Let's set the baseline.  Yes, of course you can buy everything online, and get your instruction and purchase advice from YouTube.  Clueless kids in ski shops no doubt exist.  Why would you go to a clueless kid?

In spite of this astute assessment of how to buy equipment, frustrated intermediate skiers looking to advance exist in large numbers.  There's a reason.

I have to tell you your assessment of getting quality boots by a knowledgeable bootfitter is "a religion" and just so you can "feel you're getting the full experience" is some of the worst advice I've seen dispensed on a ski forum.  I don't sell ski boots and I don't work at a ski shop.  I have no reason to promote something more expensive other that it is highly recommended for any "advanced intermediate" (Wildly broad term used by anyone who has gotten down a Black run regardless of actual skill level) who is looking to move into more precise, confident, advanced skiing.

Yes, if you have the magic factory last shaped foot, and in one shot can throw a dart at the correct model and size, you don't need a boot fitter.  Never mind what benefits a better footbed delivers.  It's just the shape that determines pressure distribution between you and the ski.  I've also seen a skier spend thousands on a custom shell, liner, and footbeds, and thousands more on stylish clothing and new skis, and they are not a head turner on the hill.  I've seen that high dollar equipment not be able to make a parallel turn.    The best equipment does not make you the best skier.  But getting good equipment, at a level that has headroom for you to learn and grow into, does make sense if you want to improve.

Or, if you're happy just muddling through your ski skill advancement, you only go a few times, not worth the expense,  it's fun the way it is, you don't need precision tools either.  That's ok.  Just don't try to mix the two.

Becoming a higher level skier takes changing your technique, adequate equipment, skiing with targeted purpose, and sufficient repetition.  You can't skip any of those.


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## skiur (May 19, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> twinplanx, if you typically have no issues with your feet and most shoes that you buy fit you just fine, you'll probably do just fine buying ski boots on-line. If you ever bought something like really sturdy hiking boots and they fit you fine with little or no break-in time, buy your new ski boots on line.
> 
> As to the flex, I'd get something with a flex of 100. As it was mentioned (BG), this index is not a uniform standard among manufactures, but in general,flex of 100 will be probably medium.
> This will give you plenty of push power to carve even on more demanding terrain and also give you nice comfy feel. Unless you're piloting super stiff skis, medium flex will work great. Stiff boots will beat up your shins and keep sending you into the back seat.
> ...



If you go to a good ski shop not in the flatlands you will not be serviced by some clueless kid, and to call it sketchy and that you will still get the wrong boot and they just want to make a buck is just ignorance.


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## cdskier (May 19, 2020)

skiur said:


> If you go to a good ski shop not in the flatlands you will not be serviced by some clueless kid, and to call it sketchy and that you will still get the wrong boot and they just want to make a buck is just ignorance.



I completely agree. I've literally had shops in the past refuse to sell me boots (even though they had boots) because they didn't have any left that were right for me (this was later in the season when this occurred). That same shop did sell to my brother though (we were similar skill levels at the time, but the differences in the shape of our feet/ankles/lower leg meant different brands/models of boots were better suited to each of us).

That said, if someone personally believes they've had success ordering online and are happy with the results, more power to them. I know for me personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with that based on my own experiences.


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## djd66 (May 19, 2020)

I have been skiing in Lange since 1984.  I am on my 5th pair.  I have always gone with the racing boot - they didn't have a flex number early on.  My last pair of boots, i went to a shop that did not carry the racing models.  They sold me a Lange XT.  They felt great in the shop and felt ok when I skied them.  The longer i skied in them, the more i thought I bought the wrong boots. They felt squishy and were not stiff - especially in warmer weather.  Over time, I developed a neuroma and at the end of the day, I would take off my boots and it felt like my toe (between 3 and 4) was on fire.  I sucked it up for 4 seasons. Finally, this season, I went to another shop that sold the Lange race boots i have always skied in.  I bought the RS 130.  OMG,... what a difference. These things made a huge difference in my skiing. I felt like i was skiing on rails with 10X more control and power.  

As far as the online thing - if you know what you want and they have not changed the boot in many years, i would have not issue buying online.  I recently bought my daughter Lange RS boots on Evo for $127.00 (they are normally $800)

Nice to be chatting about something other than the of BS on the endless threads of you know what!


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## twinplanx (May 19, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> twinplanx, if you typically have no issues with your feet and most shoes that you buy fit you just fine, you'll probably do just fine buying ski boots on-line. If you ever bought something like really sturdy hiking boots and they fit you fine with little or no break-in time, buy your new ski boots on line.
> 
> As to the flex, I'd get something with a flex of 100. As it was mentioned (BG), this index is not a uniform standard among manufactures, but in general,flex of 100 will be probably medium.
> 
> ...




  Interestingly enough, the Dalbello Panterra is one of the boots I had my eye on. I believe there flex was rated at 120 though. I'm almost certain they are on sale for about $250...

   According to many of the reviews and there own product description these boots tend to fit better for wider feet. I don't think I have a particularly wide foot, as most things fit me right out the box. Just wondering what your experience has been. If I have a normal foot, will this boot be too wide for me?

  Its not even June, I have plenty of time to get this sorted out by ski season. With Evo's 366 day return policy I could  reassess the fit in colder weather. Even in my somewhat more comfortable financial situation, I'm still having a tough time justifying the cost and hassle of a bootfiter. It's just not something the typically Long Island skier does... 

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## skiur (May 19, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> Interestingly enough, the Dalbello Panterra is one of the boots I had my eye on. I believe there flex was rated at 120 though. I'm almost certain they are on sale for about $250...
> 
> According to many of the reviews and there own product description these boots tend to fit better for wider feet. I don't think I have a particularly wide foot, as most things fit me right out the box. Just wondering what your experience has been. If I have a normal foot, will this boot be too wide for me?
> 
> ...



Frequenting this site is just not something the typical LI skier does either.


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## Bumpsis (May 19, 2020)

skiur said:


> If you go to a good ski shop not in the flatlands you will not be serviced by some clueless kid, and to call it sketchy and that you will still get the wrong boot and they just want to make a buck is just ignorance.



You really, truly never had a bad experience buying ski equipment from a ski shop (even in the ski country) and ended up with wrong stuff? Ok, may be never did but I doubt that. A lot of people have and still do. You can find a lot of almost new stuff on Craig's because the stuff doesn't fit/work (for) the original buyer even though they bought it from a shop. I know this from personal experience, so it's not like this doesn't happen.

So calling my experience of such incidents "just ignorance" is rather baseless. Granted, I bought wrong stuff in the past in ski shops because I was ignorant, not really knowing what will work for me, and yes, stuff was just sold to me because there was sale to be made. So, to just broadly state that if you buy ski boots in ski- country store you'll definitely be served much better is debatable, especially if a guy wants to save some $$. 

There is a wide range of experiences that people have and I'm just offering a point of view that's based on my ski life and that of people I know. So, this experience runs contrary to most of advice given in this thread: "_pay top dollar for your boots from a store and be sure to hire a boot fitter_". 
 I'm saying, no, you can get good stuff for much less and unless you have problem feet, forget the boot fitter. I've never used one and among a fairly large group of people that I've skied with throughout the years, I can only think of a couple of folks that really needed that service. My experience is just as valid as yours. 

On a tangent: I do support local ski shops with some of my purchases when it makes sense. I happen to like trying out ski related clothing when I can and if it fits, I buy it even though I probably could get that on line and pay less. Also, many brick & mortar ski shops  have good on-line presence and sell their stuff that way. At the end of this season I bough a pair of skis, on line, from a shop near Killington. I knew what I wanted, they had it and the price was good.


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## Bumpsis (May 19, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> Interestingly enough, the Dalbello Panterra is one of the boots I had my eye on. I believe there flex was rated at 120 though. I'm almost certain they are on sale for about $250...
> 
> According to many of the reviews and there own product description these boots tend to fit better for wider feet. I don't think I have a particularly wide foot, as most things fit me right out the box. Just wondering what your experience has been. *If I have a normal foot, will this boot be too wide for me?*
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



I'm fairly sure that the Pantteras you're looking at have the same "adjustable last" feature as mine. The last buckle, the one over the toes, can be locked in three different positions, giving you narrow, middle or wide last. The boots are made to fit D size widths the best, but this toe buckle arrangement can help with something wider or narrower. My feet are also mostly "normal" - I fit well into just about any shoe size 9 D and have no issues. 

The middle setting of the "last" buckle gives me great fit and the entire boot is exactly what it should be, an extension of my feet for solid control of my skis. Once I put my boots on and lock them in I never have to adjust them on the mountain unless the temperatures change drastically during the day, like they can in spring.


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## EPB (May 19, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> There is a wide range of experiences that people have and I'm just offering a point of view that's based on my ski life and that of people I know. So, this experience runs contrary to most of advice given in this thread: "_pay top dollar for your boots from a store and be sure to hire a boot fitter_".
> I'm saying, no, you can get good stuff for much less and unless you have problem feet, forget the boot fitter. I've never used one and among a fairly large group of people that I've skied with throughout the years, I can only think of a couple of folks that really needed that service. My experience is just as valid as yours.
> 
> On a tangent: I do support local ski shops with some of my purchases when it makes sense. I happen to like trying out ski related clothing when I can and if it fits, I buy it even though I probably could get that on line and pay less. Also, many brick & mortar ski shops  have good on-line presence and sell their stuff that way. At the end of this season I bough a pair of skis, on line, from a shop near Killington. I knew what I wanted, they had it and the price was good.



I grew up going to Stan & Dan's in North Conway. They're great. I would recommend them to anyone who needs professional fitting. Got many race boots fitted there growing up. 

That said, the last go around, I bought two pairs of boots online and fit them myself. I even switched brands, as I grew up on Lange and tested out Nordica and Technica. The Nordicas were an obvious bad fit in the toe box, and I really liked the Technica Demon 130 (predecessor to the Mach 1). They're a little wider than I need, but I'm really not picky. Next time I'll go with the low volume model which didn't exist when I purchased my Demons. Sent the Nordicas back and got refunded.

I felt kinda bad about not using Stan and Dan's, but now that I'm no longer an MWV regular, I feel unburdened from any guilt. It's way cheaper to scout deals online and I don't value the fitting because I never required alterations anyway.


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## Bumpsis (May 19, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> Interestingly enough, the Dalbello Panterra is one of the boots I had my eye on. I believe there flex was *rated at 120 though*. I'm almost certain they are on sale for about $250...
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



As to he Flex 120 on those boots, that's a tough one to call and all I can tell you that the 100 flex of my Pantteras is plenty for me. 

I like to ski fast, carve my turns (mostly) and I do ski bumps so I prefer a bit more flex in my boots (and skis). The Flex 100 Panttera is plenty stiff for me. 

When I ski on one of my older racing type skis (stiff ski) that require firm control on icy conditions, my shins do get beat up because of all the forward pressure. I'm sure that having a stiffer boot would NOT be better for me.

 But then, I'm about 170-175lb, so maybe being 200lb and having more leverage will work better with a stiffer boot. I would err on the side of having a stiffer boot. You can always ski with a looser setting of your top buckle.


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## twinplanx (May 19, 2020)

Oh shit! There were actually 2 Dalbello models on sale for less then $250 earlier  this week. Now I can't find them! Did one of you bastards snag them on me?!? Lol The other model was a Krypton I believe... They were some funky colors, so I wonder if that had something to do with the deep discounts? Idk maybe I should at least try a couple of boots on before I pull the trigger... Another issue is, there are 1 or 2 decent ski shops on Long Island and they are(or will be, when we reopen) pushing patio furniture this time of year. It would probably give me a better understanding of my needs to at least go into a shop and talk to someone.  

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## dblskifanatic (May 19, 2020)

djd66 said:


> I have been skiing in Lange since 1984.  I am on my 5th pair.  I have always gone with the racing boot - they didn't have a flex number early on.  My last pair of boots, i went to a shop that did not carry the racing models.  They sold me a Lange XT.  They felt great in the shop and felt ok when I skied them.  The longer i skied in them, the more i thought I bought the wrong boots. They felt squishy and were not stiff - especially in warmer weather.  Over time, I developed a neuroma and at the end of the day, I would take off my boots and it felt like my toe (between 3 and 4) was on fire.  I sucked it up for 4 seasons. Finally, this season, I went to another shop that sold the Lange race boots i have always skied in.  I bought the RS 130.  OMG,... what a difference. These things made a huge difference in my skiing. I felt like i was skiing on rails with 10X more control and power.
> 
> As far as the online thing - if you know what you want and they have not changed the boot in many years, i would have not issue buying online.  I recently bought my daughter Lange RS boots on Evo for $127.00 (they are normally $800)
> 
> Nice to be chatting about something other than the of BS on the endless threads of you know what!



We have found that when you find a brand that works for you stick with it!  You will forever be able to buy them cheaper online if you do not mind last years model!

We had a similar problem - got fitted and the more we skied the more our shins and feet hurt.  Not to mention, the fit they recommended was toe curling right!  That was the beginning of our online experience never looking back!


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## dblskifanatic (May 19, 2020)

https://www.evo.com/shop/ski/boots/mens/ski-boot-flex_stiff/ski-boot-flex_very-stiff/s_price-asc


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## John9 (May 19, 2020)

There are 5 pages of excellent advice here. All I can add that I did not see mentioned is how to put on a ski boot, buckle order sequence and wearing the thinnest possible sock. There are some great YouTube videos that explains this.I am an OCD perfectionist, 99% right is 100% wrong. Putting on my boots is an exact ritual. 

As to flex and weight, I am 5,9 and 175 lbs. I wear Lange RX 130 flex. I am a low level expert, most of my skiing is ripping black groomers. 

As to price, at the end of the 2018/19 season, I found the exact boots I wanted at a shop in PA, brand new 2017 Lange RX low volume, sticker price $850, @ 60 % off, about 350 out the door. Amazing bargain. 

Do not cheat yourself, skiing is time and money intensive, without the correct boot, everything else is wasted.


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## twinplanx (May 19, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> As to he Flex 120 on those boots, that's a tough one to call and all I can tell you that the 100 flex of my Pantteras is plenty for me.
> 
> I like to ski fast, carve my turns (mostly) and I do ski bumps so I prefer a bit more flex in my boots (and skis). The Flex 100 Panttera is plenty stiff for me."
> 
> ...


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## Edd (May 20, 2020)

John9 said:


> All I can add that I did not see mentioned is how to put on a ski boot, buckle order sequence and wearing the thinnest possible sock. There are some great YouTube videos that explains this.I am an OCD perfectionist, 99% right is 100% wrong. Putting on my boots is an exact ritual.



I’ve come to think this way as well. I went many years buckling from the toe and going up. I didn’t stomp the heel into place at all. 

And thick ski socks are now a non-starter for me. I still have a few pairs that I haven’t put on in years. They never kept my feet warmer in the first place. Nowadays, if I tried to wear them in a boot my foot would get crushed.


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## deadheadskier (May 20, 2020)

Same. Always went toe up.  Switched to calf down per recommendation of Richelson's when I first visited there 7 or so years ago. 

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## xlr8r (May 20, 2020)

I went through the mistake of buying boots in the flat lands thinking that if I needed changes, it would be good to be able to go back to a store that was near where I lived.  Big mistake, after a year and a half of having toes going numb, I gave up on that shop and went VT to buy new boots at Boot Pro in Ludlow.  Buying in the mountains is what I recommend, take a day off from work to avoid the weekend crowds in the store, and then ski the next day or two at the mountain nearby.  For me the first day in the new boots I had to get off the mountain and go back to the Boot Pro twice for adjustments.  

Flex for me is obvious as I am a big guy so I am an automatic 130 flex.



deadheadskier said:


> Same. Always went toe up.  Switched to calf down per recommendation of Richelson's when I first visited there 7 or so years ago.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



This is also key, what I learned is to buckle only the top buckle lightly, then flex leg all the way forward to drive the heel into the pocket, not banging the heel on the floor.  Then tighten the buckles top down.


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## Not Sure (May 20, 2020)

Not mentioned yet but for me I’ve had 4 buckle boots and 3’s . Four is the way to go for fit , thoughts ?

As far as buckling boots I always do the lower calf first and after clicking in re do all of them. 

I have average feet so ebay works for Dallbello model I like I’ve been able to luck out.


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## BenedictGomez (May 20, 2020)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> As far as buckling boots I always do the lower calf first and after clicking in re do all of them.



From bottom to the top in order of tightening, I go:

1, 2, 4, 3, Powerstrap.


I've never paid attention of watched other people do it, that just works for me.


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## drjeff (May 20, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> From bottom to the top in order of tightening, I go:
> 
> 1, 2, 4, 3, Powerstrap.
> 
> ...



100% the same sequence for me


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## Smellytele (May 20, 2020)

1,2,1,3,2, power strap, 4 then power strap again


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## cdskier (May 20, 2020)

This is pretty much what I do (main exception being I flex to seat the heel instead of banging the heel on the ground):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeo_8CoGqUM


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## Domeskier (May 20, 2020)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> Not mentioned yet but for me I’ve had 4 buckle boots and 3’s . Four is the way to go for fit , thoughts ?



Cabrio (3 buckle) shells are popular among bump skiers for their progressive flex.  They're also a lot easier to get on and off.  Overlapping (4 buckle) shells are probably better for carving, where torsional rigidity is an important factor.


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## BenedictGomez (May 20, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> *1,2,1,3,2, power strap, 4 then power strap again*



That's a lot of manipulations.

UP, UP, DOWN, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, B, A, START


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## ScottySkis (May 20, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's a lot of manipulations.
> 
> UP, UP, DOWN, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, B, A, START



Contra
Best Nintendo game and codes ever&#55357;&#56835;&#55357;&#56832;


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## dblskifanatic (May 20, 2020)

drjeff said:


> 100% the same sequence for me



Same hear!  I tap my heel before buckling!


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## Not Sure (May 20, 2020)

Domeskier said:


> Cabrio (3 buckle) shells are popular among bump skiers for their progressive flex.  They're also a lot easier to get on and off.  Overlapping (4 buckle) shells are probably better for carving, where torsional rigidity is an important factor.



That's interesting . My one buddy is a devoted mogul skier I never took notice before of his boots . I've noticed he favors short poles . 

My boots fit rather tightly and if I don't get my heel back first I have to fiddle later on , buckling #3 ...from the bottom first. Whatever works for you .


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## big_vert (May 22, 2020)

OK, plenty of good (and bad) info here, so let's start over.

1) Do you know what your forefoot measurement is?
2) What's the height of your instep?
3) exact length of (both) feet?
4) total foot height?
And a dozen more things. If the answer is "no" to ANY then you have no good reason for buying boots on the interweb. None. 

You don't seemingly even know that the flex numbers among manufacturers has exactly zero commonality, so maybe you buying a 100 in one brand and 120 in another. Do you know which is what?

The last pair of least coast procured boots I had fit like crap (from a "respected" CT shop). I went to Fanatyco at Whistler and the guy looked at my feet, then at the boots and said "great boots, but not for your feet". He refused to do any mods or sell me any boots saying he didn't have what I needed, and to come back in November  - which I did. First pair of great fitting boots I ever had. WOW - what a difference!

First - go to a real shop - since they'll make adjustments at no charge for what they sell you versus $50/punch. Usually, after a thorough analysis of your foot they'll bring out a couple of pairs to try on. Last winter I went to Sportsden in SLC. Once the machine lasered my feet, there were numbers and considerations I'd never seen before, and NICE was the boot he brought out in response. 

Second, get good footbeds, I used to favor going right more than left - now, no preference. Yes, a decent pair is $125-$150 - suck it up and do it.

Third, good socks - yeah - $20, 25 per pair. And they should be THIN. Seeing as you're trying to cheap out everything you probably won't listen, but they're imperative

Fourth - do NOT go to Surefoot. Their process ends up with COLD boots that limited amount can be done with the liners apart from sticking pads on the liners, that end up looking like the boot equivalent of a latino rice rocket.

Fifth It's all about the shell sizing and the liner. Get the best shell you can, then get some Intuition liners. Warm, form fitting and one of the best liners available. You will NEVER regret what you spend on an Intuition

If you're going to cheap it out, then fine, get some second hand rental boots and you can look with pride at some ill-fitting contraptions that you got cheap.. If you want something that's really going to work, spend some money. They should last 10 years, so what's you're real cost?


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## dblskifanatic (May 25, 2020)

big_vert said:


> OK, plenty of good (and bad) info here, so let's start over.
> 
> 1) Do you know what your forefoot measurement is?
> 2) What's the height of your instep?
> ...



I have never had a ski shop measure any of those measurements.  Ski boots are not designed on that premise.  If you have foot problems get an insole designed.  I have never had to have a boot punched out and I bet most on here have not.  Is the boot being punched out because you got the wrong last?  

Going online to pay $200-300 less than a boot from shop is not cheaping out!  I just bought the boot below online in March and last year I saw them in a ski shop for over $500 and I bought them for $250 (new).  Got them a week later and walked around the house with them on and they feel wonderful.  I will ski with them this Saturday and they will feel good then too.


https://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-ski-boots/dalbello-panterra-120-id#image=140447/613272/



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## deadheadskier (May 25, 2020)

Getting boots punched out doesn't mean you got the wrong Last. Last is a measurement at only one point and everyone's feet taper differently.  Boot brands and models within the same brand taper differently too. Custom insoles only go so far.  Any great bootfitter would tell you the same.  

All of those measurements he described are indeed important.  There's much more to ski boots than BSL, Last and Flex. Pretty cool that they can do those measurements with lasers now.  Richelson does it all by hand.  Paul fits several pro skiers.  They all drop down 2, sometimes 3 sizes and get the problem areas punched out.  

I dropped down 2 sizes with my current boots and needed a few problem areas punched out.  They fit way better than any previous boots dropping one size down where I'd have to crank down the second buckle after minimal use.  Now I barely have to buckle 1&2 at all and most of the securement comes from buckles 3&4.

Some skiers have more wonky feet than others and they simply require the additional fine tuning to get the performance they want.

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## BenedictGomez (May 25, 2020)

This thread is really getting oft-ridiculous.  

1) The guy in question literally stated he skis 10 days per year.  He doesn't need custom made liners & eleventy-million dollar boots from space materials tweaked by an ex boot fitter for the Austrian National Alpine team.

2) Buying boots on "teh internetz" does not equal complete disaster with a little research & prior knowledge.

There's a disconnect here stemming from serious AZ skiers who ski 39 to 109 times per year answering a question as if it's for themselves & their serious ski lifestyle habit, when the response is for a casual recreational skier who gets out _ maybe_ 9 or 10 times in a 6 month season.  Those responses would be 100% spot-on for serious skiers, but the OP literally said he isnt that guy.


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## mister moose (May 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> There's a disconnect here stemming from serious AZ skiers who ski 39 to 109 times per year answering a question as if it's for themselves & their serious ski lifestyle habit, when the response is for a casual recreational skier who gets out _ maybe_ 9 or 10 times in a 6 month season.  Those responses would be 100% spot-on for serious skiers, but the OP literally said he isnt that guy.


Right, but the OP not only asked for boot advice, he stated he was looking to be able to improve his skiing and ski black trails with confidence.  It's probably going to take more than some comfy new boots.


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## Smellytele (May 25, 2020)

mister moose said:


> Right, but the OP not only asked for boot advice, he stated he was looking to be able to improve his skiing and ski black trails with confidence.  It's probably going to take more than some comfy new boots.



Or boots from a boot fitter.


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## deadheadskier (May 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> This thread is really getting oft-ridiculous.
> 
> 1) The guy in question literally stated he skis 10 days per year.  He doesn't need custom made liners & eleventy-million dollar boots from space materials tweaked by an ex boot fitter for the Austrian National Alpine team.
> 
> ...


This is how all gear discussions go though

Your #2 point is really anatomy dependent.  If you have flat feet or very high arches, there is literally not a boot on the market designed for that.  There is not an off the shelf insole really designed for either as well.  Foot discomfort is certainly a big part of why some people participate less in the sport and don't progress because of it. 

Buying skis online is certainly a lot safer bet than buying boots online IMO.  You can gather quite a bit of information to make an informed decision.  Ski reviews are more meaningful than boot reviews.  Even with that, similar threads about skis get pretty technical with overwhelming input and the typical advice to demo, demo, demo.  You can't demo boots though.  That's the difference.  And boots are by far the most important piece of gear a skier owns, whether they are a 10 day a year recreational skier or a "lifestyle" skier as you describe.

I think for anyone, threads like this that share knowledge regarding just how much expertise there is to take advantage of is a good thing, even if it might seem too much for what someone like the OP may need.


"Believe it if you need it
If you don't, just pass it on"

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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

*Boot fitter*

Recently learned how important a proper fit is for a ski boot, everything I have learned is that when you put your foot into the shell of the ski boot, you shouldn’t have more 1/2 inch at the back of the boot, not sure how much I have, since it’s hard to measure but it sure looks like 2 inches.  Looking to go to either surefoot at Killington or nick baylock at Mt snow, surefoot is number one then baylock is number two, it seems their is a fair amount of negativity towards surefoot, but people never seem to express why, just the place sucks or the employees are rude, articles in Forbes/ski mag are always super positive, granted the writers could be getting paid by surefoot to write positive articles.  Any comments about my current boot size and or surefoot/baylock would be appreciated 


Thanks
Tom:flag:


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## mister moose (May 26, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> Any comments about my current boot size and or surefoot/baylock would be appreciated


The last time I was in Surefoot, they had a computer aided footbed setup.  You'd stand on a pad, and several hundred plastic pins would measure the shape of your footprint.  Then that information would be used to CNC out a footbed.

Compare that to where I went next at the Basin.  They were hand made.  And more importantly, they were hand formed.

I went with the Basin.  Ray looked at my feet, and while on the heated moldable footbed machine, he molded my feet with his hands into the position and shape they should be, as opposed to the shape they are.  The short version is he gave me more arch than I would normally have unsupported, and this makes a huge difference in fit.

While this isn't very current information, it points out how big a difference there is in boot fitters out there.  I have never been back to Surefoot.


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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

Mister moose, thanks for your input, thinking of sure foot, then I hear stories like yours, and I get more confused.


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## skiur (May 26, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> Mister moose, thanks for your input, thinking of sure foot, then I hear stories like yours, and I get more confused.



I 2nd the basin, I got my last pair of  boots there and the process was the same as mister moose's.


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## BenedictGomez (May 26, 2020)

mister moose said:


> The last time I was in Surefoot, they had a computer aided footbed setup.  You'd stand on a pad, and several hundred plastic pins would measure the shape of your footprint.  Then that information would be used to CNC out a footbed.




What's wrong with that, that all sounds pretty fantastic to me (And why do you assume handmade is more accurate)?


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## mister moose (May 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> What's wrong with that, that all sounds pretty fantastic to me (And why do you assume handmade is more accurate)?


Couple reasons.  At that time, Surefoot's machine was using pencil sized pins that would elevate to your foot. (Checking their website, it looks like they still do) The resolution was not impressive.  Basin's machine uses an air/sand/vacuum molded affair so that the resolution is more like the grains of sand under your feet.  Far better resolution,  in fact it's a lot like a mold, as opposed to a 1/4 inch estimate resolution.

Also, Surefoot has you stand on a flat board and the pegs come up to measure your foot.  As I said, Ray shapes your foot to how it should be.  He adjusts, pressures, shapes and holds your foot on the mold.  That is a huge difference prior to molding, or in the case of Surefoot, passively measuring.   How your foot should be positioned in the boot vs how it sags or spreads on a flat surface.

When finished, your foot is in the position and alignment it should be.  With Surefoot's passive approach, your foot is merely in the position you adopt while standing unsupported.

I would think that this matters less to folks with perfect arches and perfect shape that fits a factory shell and liner as if it was made for them.  I am not that person, and from what I gather so are lots of people. If you are a perfect fit in every way  right out of the box person, you win, advance to go, collect your several hundred dollar savings.

What makes this complicated is (my opinion) most intermediate skiers don't know enough about boot fit to accurately self-assess their need for custom boot work vs off the shelf.  They don't know how to ski with precision and they don't know what a precise fit feels like.  Chicken and the egg.  Get your boots dialed in before you know you need it, or plod on and eventually discover your boots are holding you back.  For most, and myself, it's a journey.  Multiple boot improvements and multiple discoveries and advancements on the hill all blend and weave into making you a better skier.  You really need to do both, and you'll end up doing them over and over as the seasons roll by.  Going by comfort alone is misleading and insufficient.  As G forces increase, as response time decreases, as edge angles increase, comfort alone is not going to be your friend.  In other words, a bean bag chair is very comfy, but you will never see one in a race car.
​


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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

Where is basin located?


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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

I found them in Killington, never heard of them before, definitely interested in using them, mister moose you have used surefoot in the past?  Did you have to come back at all to basin for minor tweaks? Thanks in advance, Tom


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## BenedictGomez (May 26, 2020)

mister moose said:


> Couple reasons.  At that time, Surefoot's machine was using pencil sized pins that would elevate to your foot. (Checking their website, it looks like they still do) The resolution was not impressive.  Basin's machine uses an air/sand/vacuum molded affair so that the resolution is more like the grains of sand under your feet.  Far better resolution,  in fact it's a lot like a mold, as opposed to a 1/4 inch estimate resolution.



And I imagine Surefoot's more expensive too, right?  I used to live walking distance to a Surefoot, but decided against it ultimately due to sticker shock.


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## mister moose (May 26, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> I found them in Killington, never heard of them before, definitely interested in using them, mister moose you have used surefoot in the past?  Did you have to come back at all to basin for minor tweaks? Thanks in advance, Tom


Basin Ski Shop is on the access road in Killington.  I looked into Surefoot, but never used them.  Yes, minor tweaks.  Replacements.   Adjustments.  Repairs.  I put a lot of ski hours in my boots.  As I said above, it's a journey.  

Another thing that compounds this process is the bad boot day.  Somedays, for seemingly no reason at all, the boot hurts.  The next day or two it goes away.  Can't explain it.  Ray says, 'Yup, bad boot day'.  Somehow, and I have no good answer for this, you have to sort out the actual fit problem from a bad boot day.


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## mister moose (May 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> And I imagine Surefoot's more expensive too, right?  I used to live walking distance to a Surefoot, but decided against it ultimately due to sticker shock.


Too long ago to remember.  

There's also several grades of footbeds out there.  I had a set that I knew were going flat and were causing some discomfort, but I just couldn't get into the shop.  By the time I got to the shop, I had driven those footbeds so flat they were spider cracked.  If you ski a lot, the more expensive ones last longer.


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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

Thanks mister moose, have decided to go from surefoot to basin, my number two is still Nick baylock at Mt snow.  Thanks for skiur input as well.

Tom


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## Domeskier (May 26, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> it seems their is a fair amount of negativity towards surefoot, but people never seem to express why, just the place sucks or the employees are rude, articles in Forbes/ski mag are always super positive, granted the writers could be getting paid by surefoot to write positive articles.



I had excruciating pain with Surefoot boots that persisted no matter how much stretching and grinding they did.  Turns out the pain was caused by their footbeds.  Took them out and the pain went away.  Which I only discovered after buying a new pair of boots and transferring the Surefoot footbeds to them.  I have a high instep and high arches.  Not sure if that's the sole reason Surefoot footbeds don't work for me.  But if it is, and if Surefoot is either unaware that their footbeds cause excruciating pain for people with feet like mine or they just goes ahead and sell them to us anyway, that would be a good reason by itself to avoid them.  

Surefoot is selling a one-size fits all solution to boot fitting that works for some but not all skiers, and they charge you a ridiculous premium for it.  Unless you know your foot is right for their shells, bladders and footbeds, go to a traditional boot fitter who will actually analyze your foot and get you in the right boot for probably hundreds of dollars less than Surefoot.


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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

Thanks domeskier, I  Am sold on basin boots, never heard of them till today.


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## Domeskier (May 26, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> Thanks domeskier, I  Am sold on basin boots, never heard of them till today.



Good luck with Basin!  I ignored the red flags about Surefoot to my chagrin and just wanted to get my story out there in case anyone else is considering them and is skeptical of the online criticism.  I'm sure they have plenty of satisfied customers and I bear them no ill-will.  They tried what they could to get the boots to work for me, but I eventually got tired of going back for adjustments.  I never bothered to seek a refund or make a fuss.  Just wanted to move on and forget the whole experience.


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## Cobbold (May 26, 2020)

Domeski, it’s amazing on surefoot half the reviews are positive the other half say stay the hell away from them, definitely gave me pause, thanks for your input.

Tom


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## big_vert (May 26, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> I have never had a ski shop measure any of those measurements.  Ski boots are not designed on that premise.  If you have foot problems get an insole designed.  I have never had to have a boot punched out and I bet most on here have not.  Is the boot being punched out because you got the wrong last?
> 
> Going online to pay $200-300 less than a boot from shop is not cheaping out!  I just bought the boot below online in March and last year I saw them in a ski shop for over $500 and I bought them for $250 (new).  *Got them a week later and walked around the house with them on and they feel wonderful. * I will ski with them this Saturday and they will feel good then too.
> 
> ...



No doubt they feel WONDERFUL. And no doubt that's because they're waaaaay too large. If you've never had a shop do those measurements then you need a MASSIVE upgrade in your shop experience. MASSIVE. "Ski boots are not designed on that premise" Really? REALLY? Then pray tell what premise they are designed on? Red ones being the fastest - that premise? And just fyi, virtually ANY boot IF FIT CORRECTLY will require some modification unless you're the unicorn who the designer expressly designed the boot for.

"If you have foot problems get an insole designed". Wow, you are well and truly clueless. I have a 104 forefoot, high instep and arch, narrow ankles and calves. Right, please show me who will supply me THAT insole. REALLY clueless.

And let's see, trying to get a boot that will deal with a protruding ankle will call for a punch so that the ankle doesn't rub out the side of the liner, or maybe (last, last resort) a donut so I can make it through the day without massive pain. I don't think any of my buds haven't had they boots punched somewhere from pressure points, but hey, they're not you with a 28.5 shell and a 26.0 foot, right?

Someday, when you go to a real shop that does all those measurements, and puts you in a shell and liner that are actually correct for your foot, THEN come back and tell me that a punch is because I need other insoles. Wow!:roll:

Sadly, it's "recommendations" like yours that put people in lousy fitting boots, or are clueless about what a fit or the process to get a good fit really should be.


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## Bosco DaSkia (May 27, 2020)

big_vert said:


> No doubt they feel WONDERFUL. And no doubt that's because they're waaaaay too large. If you've never had a shop do those measurements then you need a MASSIVE upgrade in your shop experience. MASSIVE. "Ski boots are not designed on that premise" Really? REALLY? Then pray tell what premise they are designed on? Red ones being the fastest - that premise? And just fyi, virtually ANY boot IF FIT CORRECTLY will require some modification unless you're the unicorn who the designer expressly designed the boot for.
> 
> "If you have foot problems get an insole designed". Wow, you are well and truly clueless. I have a 104 forefoot, high instep and arch, narrow ankles and calves. Right, please show me who will supply me THAT insole. REALLY clueless.
> 
> ...



















yer vert must be huge.......


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## Bumpsis (May 27, 2020)

_"I have a 104 forefoot, high instep and arch, narrow ankles and calves. Right, please show me who will supply me THAT insole. REALLY clueless."_

Just because YOU have weird feet doesn't mean that everyone else is "REALLY clueless". Take a deep breath, man. There is a lot of people out there who can take an off the shelf boot and it will work just fine.


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## dblskifanatic (May 27, 2020)

big_vert said:


> No doubt they feel WONDERFUL. And no doubt that's because they're waaaaay too large. If you've never had a shop do those measurements then you need a MASSIVE upgrade in your shop experience. MASSIVE. "Ski boots are not designed on that premise" Really? REALLY? Then pray tell what premise they are designed on? Red ones being the fastest - that premise? And just fyi, virtually ANY boot IF FIT CORRECTLY will require some modification unless you're the unicorn who the designer expressly designed the boot for.
> 
> "If you have foot problems get an insole designed". Wow, you are well and truly clueless. I have a 104 forefoot, high instep and arch, narrow ankles and calves. Right, please show me who will supply me THAT insole. REALLY clueless.
> 
> ...



Why do people decide to use terms like clueless - is someone upset?  We had a son that had arch issues and YES HE HAD A CUTOM INSOLE MADE!!!!!!! 

Not everyone like you can afford a boot fitting experience and not everyone have club feet!  My whole family never needed it and never will and we will continue to buy online and that will be perfectly fine.  We apparently have feet that boots are designed for!  I would love to see how many have done that on this sight!


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## big_vert (May 27, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> Why do people decide to use terms like clueless - is someone upset?  We had a son that had arch issues and YES HE HAD A CUTOM INSOLE MADE!!!!!!!
> 
> Not everyone like you can afford a boot fitting experience and not everyone have club feet!  My whole family never needed it and never will and we will continue to buy online and that will be perfectly fine.  We apparently have feet that boots are designed for!  I would love to see how many have done that on this sight!
> 
> ...



WHOA - A CUTOM INSOLE! Right - like you said FOR ARCH ISSUES. So let me ask, is that the ONLY issue people ever have with boots? Right, of course not. But I guess CUTOM INSOLE's solve EVERY ISSUE, yes? Like with extreme forefoot, or pronating or everything else that affects bootfit. So glad I got your wisdom. Next time all I have to do is get cutom insole and all my problems are solved. Damn, I've apparently wasted so much time and money trying to get a boot that will fit me exactly when all I needed were cutom insoles 

If you think I'm describing "club feet", then apparently you're clueless (there's that word again) about what foot issues MANY people have. 

Try a YouTube bootfitting segment from a real bootfitter, OR go to a real, highend boot shop like Fanatyco at WB, Sports Loft in SLC or many others and let them laugh in your face after taking all those unnecessary measurements of your feet instead of just making a cutom insole that will solve everything.

BTW, all of my boots have cutom footbeds, all of them, and I have a box in the garage that probably has another 5-6 pairs in trying to get them exactly right. That deals with ONE issue. ONLY one. But hey, it's the only one your kid apparently had, so, well, that takes care of everything, right?


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## djd66 (May 27, 2020)

big_vert said:


> BTW, all of my boots have cutom footbeds, all of them, and I have a box in the garage that probably has another 5-6 pairs in trying to get them exactly right



You have 8 sets of ski boots?


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## Boxtop Willie (May 28, 2020)

Can we go back to politics now?


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## drjeff (May 28, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> _"I have a 104 forefoot, high instep and arch, narrow ankles and calves. Right, please show me who will supply me THAT insole. REALLY clueless."_
> 
> Just because YOU have weird feet doesn't mean that everyone else is "REALLY clueless". Take a deep breath, man. There is a lot of people out there who can take an off the shelf boot and it will work just fine.



There is often difference though between "work(s) just fine" and properly fit.  I don't doubt that there are some folks who do have a "stock foot" shape where right off the shelf and they're good to go is the right call for them. I strongly feel though, that many of those who think that way, just have never had a properly fit boot and/or don't think the the extra $$ that they may have to pay for the services of a GOOD boot fitter, is worth it.

Kind of like the difference between "water resistant" and "waterproof" clothing


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## dblskifanatic (May 28, 2020)

big_vert said:


> WHOA - A CUTOM INSOLE! Right - like you said FOR ARCH ISSUES. So let me ask, is that the ONLY issue people ever have with boots? Right, of course not. But I guess CUTOM INSOLE's solve EVERY ISSUE, yes? Like with extreme forefoot, or pronating or everything else that affects bootfit. So glad I got your wisdom. Next time all I have to do is get cutom insole and all my problems are solved. Damn, I've apparently wasted so much time and money trying to get a boot that will fit me exactly when all I needed were cutom insoles
> 
> If you think I'm describing "club feet", then apparently you're clueless (there's that word again) about what foot issues MANY people have.
> 
> ...



Look this an opinion based forum and people have different perspectives and experiences.  We don’t come hear to get berated by an ass that thinks everything he is selling is the Bible!  The OP never mentioned he had foot issues and it is not like he is a 50+ day skier.  Every person here approaches gear purchases differently and I hope they do.  Would be pretty boring if everyone agreed with you or even myself.

Apparently you have lots of money to spend on gear - good for you!  


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## Domeskier (May 28, 2020)

drjeff said:


> There is often difference though between "work(s) just fine" and properly fit.



This is true for me.  Before getting properly fitted years ago, I thought I was fine with off-the-shelf boots - no pain, no obvious performance issues.  After getting fitted boots, I had occasion to ski my last pair of off-the-shelf boots again and realized just how ill-fitting (too large) and limiting they actually were.


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## Domeskier (May 28, 2020)

[snip double post]


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## twinplanx (May 31, 2020)

Well, that escalated quickly! I'm slightly overwhelmed by the response to my question. But I'm still not convinced I need to see a bootfiter. I've been skiing for a LONG time and I never had major issues with boots right out of the box. I asked a simple question about boot flex and you guys gave me alot more to consider.  You brought up some questions pertaining to fit like "last" and stuff and I don't really have those answers. So I will probably try some boots on before I buy anything. 

   There are not many skiers on this forum from Long Island, but I guess I was hoping someone would chime in here with a recommendation for a good local shop. I don't want to go into the city to see some overpriced foot doctor. Even the ones mentioned in Ski Country seem to be far and wide. I'm certainly not traveling to Salt Lake City!  Those recommendations do not consider the wants and needs of a >10 a year skier. 

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## skiur (May 31, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> Well, that escalated quickly! I'm slightly overwhelmed by the response to my question. But I'm still not convinced I need to see a bootfiter. I've been skiing for a LONG time and I never had major issues with boots right out of the box. I asked a simple question about boot flex and you guys gave me alot more to consider.  You brought up some questions pertaining to fit like "last" and stuff and I don't really have those answers. So I will probably try some boots on before I buy anything.
> 
> There are not many skiers on this forum from Long Island, but I guess I was hoping someone would chime in here with a recommendation for a good local shop. I don't want to go into the city to see some overpriced foot doctor. Even the ones mentioned in Ski Country seem to be far and wide. I'm certainly not traveling to Salt Lake City!  Those recommendations do not consider the wants and needs of a >10 a year skier.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



I'm a LI skier and can tell you not to waste your time going to a local ski shop (or one in the city). If you want to try a boot fitter go to a ski shop in a ski town.  LI ski shops are busy selling patio furniture right now so that should tell you something.


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## twinplanx (May 31, 2020)

I know they are in Patio Mode right now. It's just sad that with the amount of money down here we don't have a dedicated Ski Shop. I guess I'm not exactly helping as I am considering an internet purchase. But really?

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## mister moose (May 31, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> But I'm still not convinced I need to see a bootfiter. I've been skiing for a LONG time and I never had major issues with boots right out of the box.


Several of us said you don't have to go see a boot fitter if you are happy with your skiing the way it is.  That's one potential answer for you.  However, you said you wanted to improve your skiing.  That's why you got the answers you did on boot fitting.  Flex ratings can be subjective from manufacturer to manufacturer.  That's a second answer for you.



twinplanx said:


> There are not many skiers on this forum from Long Island, but I guess I was hoping someone would chime in here with a recommendation for a good local shop. I don't want to go into the city to see some overpriced foot doctor. Even the ones mentioned in Ski Country seem to be far and wide. I'm certainly not traveling to Salt Lake City!  Those recommendations do not consider the wants and needs of a >10 a year skier.


If there's no good ski shops on LI (not surprised, probably none on the Cape either) then you unfortunately have no middle ground.  It's internet, Pool/Patio/Biking/Ski shop, or drive to the mountains for the real deal.

Here's a compromise for you - next time you're in a major ski town, find out who has a good boot reputation there and go ask for an eval of your present shell size for your foot.  Shouldn't cost much, they might even do it for free.  You can find out if you're in an oversize but uber-comfy shell.  That doesn't help with a purchase this summer, but that's the hand you've dealt yourself.


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## Domeskier (May 31, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> Well, that escalated quickly! I'm slightly overwhelmed by the response to my question. But I'm still not convinced I need to see a bootfiter. I've been skiing for a LONG time and I never had major issues with boots right out of the box. I asked a simple question about boot flex and you guys gave me alot more to consider.  You brought up some questions pertaining to fit like "last" and stuff and I don't really have those answers. So I will probably try some boots on before I buy anything.
> 
> There are not many skiers on this forum from Long Island, but I guess I was hoping someone would chime in here with a recommendation for a good local shop. I don't want to go into the city to see some overpriced foot doctor. Even the ones mentioned in Ski Country seem to be far and wide. I'm certainly not traveling to Salt Lake City!  Those recommendations do not consider the wants and needs of a >10 a year skier.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk



If you can make it to Wayne, NJ, Greg Pier, previously of the now closed Heino’s, is an excellent boot fitter now associated with Ski Barn. Here is a link with additional info: http://www.heinosskiandcycle.com


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## big_vert (Jun 8, 2020)

djd66 said:


> You have 8 sets of ski boots?



3. ONe at WB, one pair in SLC and 1 at my house. Reading comprehension is a valuable life resource: _I have a box in the garage that probably has another 5-6 pairs i__n trying to get them exactly right". Seems you need a picture_

And yes, they're all ready for Therm-ic heaters and stuff.

But, as we already learned, all we need is a custom insole, and our problems are all solved. Gheesh.


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## twinplanx (Aug 11, 2020)

So I went against the conventinal wisdom here and blindly bought some boots online. I got a pair of Dalbello DS MX 120. I guess they are a step or two below the Panteras. The fit does seem satisfactory out of the box. Have any of you DIY guys tried this rice thing with heat moldable liners: https://youtu.be/8K7fRr-Jbfo 
The process seems laughable to me, but maybe it works, IDK.  What should it cost to do the process at a shop where I obviously didn't purchase them? I don't think any other tweaks would be necessary... 

For what it's worth, I added a pair of Cross Country Ski Boots that I can utilize here in the Flatland and did the whole deal for under $375, so I feel pretty good about that. 

Sent from my F3113 using Tapatalk


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## mister moose (Aug 11, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> So I went against the conventinal wisdom here and blindly bought some boots online. ... What should it cost to do the process at a shop where I obviously didn't purchase them?


I think that's pretty close to bringing a steak to a restaurant and asking what they'd charge to cook it...  but do let us know how it turns out.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 11, 2020)

mister moose said:


> I think that's pretty close to bringing a steak to a restaurant and asking what they'd charge to cook it...  but do let us know how it turns out.



I dont see it that way at all.  They'll likely be happy to take your money & do the job for you.


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## twinplanx (Aug 12, 2020)

mister moose said:


> I think that's pretty close to bringing a steak to a restaurant and asking what they'd charge to cook it...  but do let us know how it turns out.


I have heard that some restaurants will gladly prepare and serve fish you have caught, so yeah worth a shot...

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## bizarrefaith (Aug 12, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I dont see it that way at all.  They'll likely be happy to take your money & do the job for you.



Yes it's nothing like that. Shops have established rates for boot work on boots they didn't sell and any shop that does boot work will do it. You will pay more than you would if you bought the boot there, but they will 100% do it no problem.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 12, 2020)

bizarrefaith said:


> Yes it's nothing like that. *Shops have established rates for boot work on boots they didn't sell and any shop that does boot work will do it. You will pay more than you would if you bought the boot there, but they will 100% do it no problem.*



That's my belief as well.  Same as drilling & mounting.  I frequently buy used skis and/or bindings & most shops will simply charge you for it.  I dont believe I've ever had a shop say, _"take a hike, you didnt buy from us"_.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 12, 2020)

mister moose said:


> I think that's pretty close to bringing a steak to a restaurant and asking what they'd charge to cook it...  but do let us know how it turns out.


That's the entire Richelson's business model.  They don't sell boots.  You can however purchase their measuring services for $75 and they will provide a list of 8-10 models that most closely fit your foot type and skiing preference. You go shopping for your best price elsewhere and bring the boots back in to be professionally fit. That way when you go in to pay for the adjustments, there are less of them to make. 

He is very unique though. Only service of his kind I'm aware of in New England.  Seems to make a good living at it and counts numerous professional skiers as his clients. 

Sent from my motorola one action using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Domeskier (Aug 13, 2020)

twinplanx said:


> I have heard that some restaurants will gladly prepare and serve fish you have caught, so yeah worth a shot...



I did that once.  The shop was happy to take my $50 or whatever they charged.  They even blew out some hot spots. I called them first just to see if they'd do it and to find out what they'd charge.


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## jasonpitt908 (Sep 15, 2020)

I recently received a pair of *Lace Up Boots* from a Brand called which makes the best quality leather boots for men their boots are durable, stylish, and comfortable for the feet. I ordered them two weeks back and I received them after 1 week and wear them for offices and for an outing. As winter is coming so I decided a pair of them and they also fit in my budget. And they have used lugged sole at the bottom of the boot, I really their boots never expect from them as they make a high-quality leather boot.


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## dlague (Sep 15, 2020)

jasonpitt908 said:


> I recently received a pair of *Lace Up Boots* from a Brand called which makes the best quality leather boots for men their boots are durable, stylish, and comfortable for the feet. I ordered them two weeks back and I received them after 1 week and wear them for offices and for an outing. As winter is coming so I decided a pair of them and they also fit in my budget. And they have used lugged sole at the bottom of the boot, I really their boots never expect from them as they make a high-quality leather boot.



Wtf?


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## mister moose (Sep 15, 2020)

Spam.  Got to give him credit though, it's boot spam in a boot thread.

On a related note, there is a very good attempt to sell you LL Bean boots at a very good price running now on Facebook.  It  takes you to an altered URL, not LLBean.com  The comments are full of people that gave their credit card and got no merchandise.  I spoke with LL Bean about it, and they said they were aware, it has been going on for several days, that they had repeatedly requested FB to take down the fraudulent ads and they kept reappearing.

And there is this important distinction if you do end up ordering through a spoofed site like this one:  If you voluntarily give someone your credit card numbers, it is not considered fraud.  You do not get your money back from your bank.  It is considered a merchant claim, and you have to go through all the usual credit card resolution procedures.


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## thebigo (Sep 15, 2020)

jasonpitt908 said:


> I recently received a pair of *Lace Up Boots* from a Brand called which makes the best quality leather boots for men their boots are durable, stylish, and comfortable for the feet. I ordered them two weeks back and I received them after 1 week and wear them for offices and for an outing. As winter is coming so I decided a pair of them and they also fit in my budget. And they have used lugged sole at the bottom of the boot, I really their boots never expect from them as they make a high-quality leather boot.



I am looking forward to Mr Pitt's trip reports this year!


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