# Things you hate about skiing



## JD (Dec 14, 2008)

I hate when people refer to skiing as a product.
I hate people who drop names and the names of places they've skiied in an attempt to validate themselves.
             "When I was at Aspen....."  
I hate side slippers going into lines they have no business in.  If you can't hack it, don't hack it.
I hate having to head for the car.
I hate getting whipped accross the mouth by pucker brush.
I hate bad visability.
I hate dust on crust.
That's about it.  I love everything else about what I call skiing.


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## hardline (Dec 14, 2008)

i hate slow people on flats and traverses that yell at you for buzzing them because they making huge turns taking up the whole trail.


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## drjeff (Dec 14, 2008)

People that smoke in the liftline


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 14, 2008)

I just like skiing..nothing to hate about it..lol..JD did you forget to take your Prozac today???


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## JD (Dec 14, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I just like skiing..nothing to hate about it..lol..JD did you forget to take your Prozac today???


No.  You?


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## billski (Dec 14, 2008)

:dunce:I hate it when other skier steal lines on MY trail.


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## djspookman (Dec 14, 2008)

I hate it when I can't ski..........nuff said!


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## Johnskiismore (Dec 14, 2008)

July and August


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## MRGisevil (Dec 14, 2008)

Ice butt. It's quite unfortunate when your ass cheeks are frozen together after you get off an ice covered lift in sub zero temperatures.


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## Beetlenut (Dec 14, 2008)

I hate hurting myself skiing.
I hate waiting to heal after you hurt yourself skiing, especially during the season!


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 14, 2008)

i hate having to get up at the  crack of dawn for a   1.5 - 3 hr drive to the  hill  and envy those who live within 10-15 minutes of decent skiing


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## deadheadskier (Dec 14, 2008)

drjeff said:


> People that smoke in the liftline



People still do this?  I can't recall the last time I saw / smelt this.  On the lift I see it, but not in line.  Mind you I'm a smoker and I'd probably tell someone to stop who was smoking in line.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 14, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> People still do this?  I can't recall the last time I saw / smelt this.  On the lift I see it, but not in line.  Mind you I'm a smoker and I'd probably tell someone to stop who was smoking in line.



People definitely smoke in line at Blue mountain the true mountain..usually 15 year old kids..but if you're nice to them..you can bum a cig off of them..


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## mondeo (Dec 14, 2008)

3 hour drives
Single digit/negative temps
Minor injuries that I know will be around until May
People that pay no attention to the people uphill of them on bump runs


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## Skimaine (Dec 14, 2008)

Ski boots.
Wind.


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## Glenn (Dec 14, 2008)

Cold hands and feet. But hand warmers help...and maybe I'll get some boot warmers.


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## KingM (Dec 14, 2008)

I hate driving to the mountain and then having to put on my boots in the parking lot when it's really cold and windy. I hate having sore knees and other nagging aches and pains that last for months after the season ends. I hate getting to the mountain and finding out that one of the kids forgot some critical piece of clothing or equipment.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 14, 2008)

Walking in boots


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## ski9 (Dec 14, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> People still do this?  I can't recall the last time I saw / smelt this.  On the lift I see it, but not in line.  Mind you I'm a smoker and I'd probably tell someone to stop who was smoking in line.



Twice last season people pulled out a pack on my chair...I ski alone after work a lot---just tunes and laps and only ride the lift with someone who makes a point of getting on the lift with me (nights are dead at my home hill). What gets me is when they act like you're crazy for telling them you will push them off the lift if they light it.


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## 2knees (Dec 15, 2008)

weird thread man.

i agree with Djspooksman.  i hate not skiing.

hate is a strong word.


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## madskier6 (Dec 15, 2008)

I hate having to pay high prices for lift tickets.  I wish skiing was more affordable.

But I understand that running a ski area is expensive & there's not a lot of profit in it.  So I want to make sure that they stay in business so I understand the need to pay more than I'd like for the privilege of skiing.  Nevertheless, I wish skiing was more affordable.

I'm sure I'll get comments from the turn earners about hiking or skinning to cut your costs.  More power to you but it's difficult enough for me to break away from my various responsibilities to do lift served that there is no way in hell at this stage in my life that I can spend the time earning turns.  Maybe when I'm older & my children are grown I'll have the time but right now, it 'aint gonna happen.


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## JD (Dec 15, 2008)

madskier6 said:


> I hate having to pay high prices for lift tickets.  I wish skiing was more affordable.
> 
> But I understand that running a ski area is expensive & there's not a lot of profit in it.  So I want to make sure that they stay in business so I understand the need to pay more than I'd like for the privilege of skiing.  Nevertheless, I wish skiing was more affordable.
> 
> I'm sure I'll get comments from the turn earners about hiking or skinning to cut your costs.  More power to you but it's difficult enough for me to break away from my various responsibilities to do lift served that there is no way in hell at this stage in my life that I can spend the time earning turns.  Maybe when I'm older & my children are grown I'll have the time but right now, it 'aint gonna happen.



Extra time?  You can do a lap in an hour 20 at most major resorts.  Small places in western mass you could do 2 in that time.  Or on lighter gear you could go ski around on a golf course or a community ski area or some other small piece of terrain and have a ball and ski for as long as you want, and not have to drive to killington to do it.  I mean, skinning around and bushwacking may not be your thing, but it's way more accessable then being tied to a lift and feeling like you need to go to a big Mtn to have fun or make turns.


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## frozencorn (Dec 15, 2008)

I hate $16 tabs for 2 Harpoon IPAs....(wtf, Waterville?)

I hate 50 degree temps in December. 

I hate the imminent fear in December that there just aren't enough days until June. 

I hate June.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 15, 2008)

People who bitch about beer prices at ski areas..

People who bitch about spring conditions mid winter...


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## frozencorn (Dec 15, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who bitch about beer prices at ski areas..
> 
> People who bitch about spring conditions mid winter...



I ain't bitchin', just adding 2 cents...

Except the $16 thing....I'm kinda bitching about that.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 15, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> I ain't bitchin', just adding 2 cents...
> 
> Except the $16 thing....I'm kinda bitching about that.



Bring your own beer or drink Coors light..:flame:


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## RootDKJ (Dec 15, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Bring your own beer or drink Coors light..:flame:


Road sodas in the parking lot, lol


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## awf170 (Dec 15, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> I hate June.



But June is rad...







Me?  I hate wicked cold and dark midwinter days.  Unless there is upslope snow involved, then I'm cool with it.


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## tjf67 (Dec 15, 2008)

ski9 said:


> Twice last season people pulled out a pack on my chair...I ski alone after work a lot---just tunes and laps and only ride the lift with someone who makes a point of getting on the lift with me (nights are dead at my home hill). What gets me is when they act like you're crazy for telling them you will push them off the lift if they light it.



I hate people like you.  There is a way to say things and a way not to.  be careful saying stuff like that .  You may run into the wrong person and find yourself tits up looking at the chair.


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## frozencorn (Dec 15, 2008)

awf170 said:


> But June is rad...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is a &^%$#* awesome photo. 

OK, June's off the list.


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 15, 2008)

Today's  47 degree  friggin rain storm


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## Greg (Dec 15, 2008)

Groomers. :razz:


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## 4aprice (Dec 15, 2008)

Greg said:


> Groomers. :razz:



I love bumps too but I'll take a groomer over the teflon steel VW's that sometimes appear here in the southern tier of the northeast.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Greg (Dec 15, 2008)

4aprice said:


> I love bumps too but I'll take a groomer over the teflon steel VW's that sometimes appear here in the southern tier of the northeast.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



[post="358857"]Ski Sundown - 12/7/08 [/post]

There were groomers open. We never took them... :lol:


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## 4aprice (Dec 15, 2008)

I give you all the credit in the world Greg but leave you with a word of caution.  I have a friend (a very good skier) who really was hurt badly on the the teflon VW's on Rocket at Camelback.  I would hate to, or see anyone else for that matter, end their season early.  On a shallower pitch trail (like lower Cleopatra at CBK) I will run the rock hard bumps, but Rocket is a sharp pitch and just not a pleasure to ski when like that.  Keep bumpin and stay safe.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## jaywbigred (Dec 15, 2008)

Things I hate about skiing:

1) Mid/top of the mountain ski lodges where the entrance is on one level and the pisser is up/down stairs. Ski boots and stairs...yuck.

2) Having to drop a deuce with all your equipment on at a lodge. Base layers keep you from adequately spreading your legs, boots make your seated position awkward and I often lose circulation in my legs, wiping sometimes you almost fall of the seat, you have to constantly monitor your helmet, gloves, turtle fur, suspenders, etc...from being dragged in something nasty/across the floor, and, of course, the general nastiness of ski area bathrooms.

3) Leaving the north country on weekends. Hate that drive. I spend the whole time fantasizing about career modifications/changes/winning the lottery that would allow me to move to ski country full-time.

4) Ski boot pain that lingers even after you have spent too much time and money trying to get an at-least-moderately pain free fit. Who decided that skiers should have "low volume feet" and to anyone else, tough noogies? <sigh>


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## madskier6 (Dec 15, 2008)

ski9 said:


> Twice last season people pulled out a pack on my chair...I ski alone after work a lot---just tunes and laps and only ride the lift with someone who makes a point of getting on the lift with me (nights are dead at my home hill). What gets me is when they act like you're crazy for telling them you will push them off the lift if they light it.



You're going to push them off the chairlift because they want to light up a cigarette?  You must be joking.  Don't you think that's a little extreme?  I'm not a huge fan of cigarette smoke but that's way out of line IMHO.  Plus, I would rather they smoke on the chair than in the lift line.

If it really bothers you, how about a polite "I'd appreciate it if you didn't smoke on this chairlift right now"?  I've got to assume you were exaggerating in your post just to make a point or get a reaction.


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## 4aprice (Dec 15, 2008)

jaywbigred said:


> Things I hate about skiing:
> 
> 
> 4) Ski boot pain that lingers even after you have spent too much time and money trying to get an at-least-moderately pain free fit. Who decided that skiers should have "low volume feet" and to anyone else, tough noogies? <sigh>



I'm with you on this.  Breaking in a new pair of boots this season.  Getting better each day but a couple of days have been rough.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## frozencorn (Dec 15, 2008)

I hate the guy that pushed me off the lift one time for smoking a butt.


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## bobbutts (Dec 15, 2008)

ski9 said:


> Twice last season people pulled out a pack on my chair...I ski alone after work a lot---just tunes and laps and only ride the lift with someone who makes a point of getting on the lift with me (nights are dead at my home hill). What gets me is when they act like you're crazy for telling them you will push them off the lift if they light it.



Did you really threaten to throw someone off the lift?   lol


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## billski (Dec 15, 2008)

jaywbigred said:


> Things I hate about skiing:
> 
> 1) Mid/top of the mountain ski lodges where the entrance is on one level and the pisser is up/down stairs. Ski boots and stairs...yuck.


 
The BEST-placed toilet in the world is at the the top of the fourrunner quad at Stowe. It's literally no more than 20 steps away from the unloading ramp, adjacent to the doorway and on the same level. It is more work to take your skis/board off than to get to the john.


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## ski9 (Dec 15, 2008)

madskier6 said:


> You're going to push them off the chairlift because they want to light up a cigarette?  You must be joking.  Don't you think that's a little extreme?  I'm not a huge fan of cigarette smoke but that's way out of line IMHO.  Plus, I would rather they smoke on the chair than in the lift line.
> 
> If it really bothers you, how about a polite "I'd appreciate it if you didn't smoke on this chairlift right now"?  I've got to assume you were exaggerating in your post just to make a point or get a reaction.




Politely ask someone to not make my ski jacket smell like cigarette smoke? Politely ask someone not to blow second hand smoke in my face?

Jeez, I guess I'm not that polite.


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## Greg (Dec 15, 2008)

madskier6 said:


> I've got to assume you were *exaggerating *in your post just to make a point or *get a reaction*.



You mean to tell me people do that when they post online? :-o


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## jaywbigred (Dec 15, 2008)

billski said:


> The BEST-placed toilet in the world is at the the top of the fourrunner quad at Stowe. It's literally no more than 20 steps away from the unloading ramp, adjacent to the doorway and on the same level. It is more work to take your skis/board off than to get to the john.



Can't recall it, but good to know. Forget vertical feet or skiable acreage...someone should really be logging statistics and locations of ski area bathrooms...come on people, anyone can cover the side of a mountain with snow, but it takes special customer service to provide a comfortable ski-boot-and-bathroom-experience.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 15, 2008)

People that merge onto a trail without looking to see what's coming...

The race team kids doing snakes on crowded trails..they make great slalom gates..


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## billski (Dec 15, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People that merge onto a trail without looking to see what's coming...
> .



In metro Boston:flame: they drive that way too.


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## bobbutts (Dec 15, 2008)

ski9 said:


> Politely ask someone to not make my ski jacket smell like cigarette smoke? Politely ask someone not to blow second hand smoke in my face?
> 
> Jeez, I guess I'm not that polite.



Someday you may find out that being polite is preferable to cleaning your own blood from your jacket when you threaten the wrong person.   Do you always jump to threats of violence when people do things you don't like?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 15, 2008)

bobbutts said:


> Someday you may find out that being polite is preferable to cleaning your own blood from your jacket when you threaten the wrong person.   Do you always jump to threats of violence when people do things you don't like?




You obviously have not met Ski9..I'd put my money on him in a physical fight..


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## kcyanks1 (Dec 15, 2008)

1-so much effort to get to the ski areas from where I live
2-having to pack and travel with so much clothes/equipment
3-having to depend on unpredictable weather
4-you can only do it during ski "season" (unless you change hemispheres/etc.)


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## rachelv (Dec 15, 2008)

Lugging a ski bag and a boot bag on the subway on the way to the train/airport/etc. Fun fact: a transpack XT1 with your boots in it is *just* wide enough to not fit through a subway turnstyle. Take it off before you walk through to avoid being the person who gets stuck in the turnstyle.


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

jaywbigred said:


> Can't recall it, but good to know. Forget vertical feet or skiable acreage...someone should really be logging statistics and locations of ski area bathrooms...come on people, anyone can cover the side of a mountain with snow, but it takes special customer service to provide a comfortable ski-boot-and-bathroom-experience.


 
Ok, ski in, ski out bathrooms. Not sure on the specifics, and I'm sure backing in would be required, but I'm sure the entertainment value would be high and worth several lively threads on here!


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

People that boot pack up skin tracks...


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## dl (Dec 15, 2008)

- windchill
- boilerplate
- baggy ski clothies on ski bunnies
- lack of ski bunnies
- people who describe their skiing ability using trail difficulty signs (black diamond)
- $25 lodge lunch for two (no adult beverages included)
- having to seriously consider the consequences of going off of a kicker, jumping off of a cliff, letting the skis run as fast as they can go, trying tricks in the 1/2 pipe (vs skiing up the side and dropping back in), ducking under the ropes, jumping off the chair into a snow drift, etc.


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Icey rain


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## ripzillia (Dec 15, 2008)

Gapers that stop @ the bottom of the lift ramp.
Gapers that stop in front of the lift line.
Gapers that think they have high level skills.
So I don't like Gapers.
Bro-brahs w/ fat twin tips.
Joeys that litter.
:uziumbasses that pass a line of traffic on pack snow a mile from the resort.
I feel better already........


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## prisnah (Dec 15, 2008)

Weekends and vacation weeks and the hordes of people that pay absolutely no attention to where they stop to take a breather.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 15, 2008)

Helmet debates


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> helmet debates


 
+1 8)


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> +1 8)



You started it...  But couldn't go the distance... 

Problem is - there's always someone new to these debates...  So this and "Snowboarders suck" will always be big debates/arguments...  They have been forever...

And if you notice - i can sit idly by but at some point I have to interject my own .02... But only when i have a "posting window"


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## tjf67 (Dec 15, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> I hate the guy that pushed me off the lift one time for smoking a butt.




bahaha thats great


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## JD (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> People that boot pack up skin tracks...



Amen!  or for that matter...people the ski on skin traks or boot packs.  Don't mind if they're getting across a flat area, but on steeps it's just a no-no.


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

JD said:


> Amen!  or for that matter...people the ski on skin traks or boot packs.



I hate having to rekick a step ...


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> You started it... But couldn't go the distance...
> 
> Problem is - there's always someone new to these debates... So this and "Snowboarders suck" will always be big debates/arguments... They have been forever...
> 
> And if you notice - i can sit idly by but at some point I have to interject my own .02... But only when i have a "posting window"


 
What you stalking me around threadville now? Its not that I couldn't go the distance, I didn't want to be an enabler anymore! 8)

and I've observed, first hand your "idle sitting by"!


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## JD (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> I hate having to rekick a step ...



Now you got me thinking about chin laps!  Can't wait...
but in that vein....
I hate people the go out of bounds at a resort w/o a clue where they are going.


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## billski (Dec 15, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Helmet debates




I hate lifties and kitchen help who don't wear helmets.  :roll:


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> What you stalking me around threadville now? Its not that I couldn't go the distance, I didn't want to be an enabler anymore! 8)
> 
> and I've observed, first hand your "idle sitting by"!



OK so now I can't post in the same thread as you?!?!?  LAME!

Last i checked - Greg was the king here..


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

billski said:


> I hate lifties and kitchen help who don't wear helmets.  :roll:




Way to set an example... I'm disgusted.. 
And i demand ski patrol wear hairnets...


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## tcharron (Dec 15, 2008)

Prices which are way out of wack with typical inflation.  And prices that are out of wack with the concept of growing returns.

If I go on a weeknight someplace for 4 hours, pegging for a 45$ lift ticket is silly.  The lifts still running, it wont cost ANY more money, or lose any more money, charging 20$ and getting twice as many people.


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> OK so now I can't post in the same thread as you?!?!? LAME!
> 
> Last i checked - Greg was the king here..


 
Man you are so sensitive today!  Are you lactating or something?


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> Man you are so sensitive today!  Are you lactating or something?



HAHA you wish...  Want a sip?

No - I'm actually just having fun... Poking and prodding- stirring up trouble...  Playing devils advocate...  Protecting freedom... trolling...   Your and easy target... I zoomed in on you immediately...  like shootin fish in a barrel...

And the best thing is - i got you off the thread...   

Just another day in paradise when i dont feel like working... 8)


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## campgottagopee (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> And i demand ski patrol wear hairnets...



Is that because they share helmets????


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Is that because they share helmets????





Excellent...


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> HAHA you wish... Want a sip?
> 
> No - I'm actually just having fun... Poking and prodding- stirring up trouble... Playing devils advocate... Protecting freedom... trolling... Your and easy target... I zoomed in on you immediately... like shootin fish in a barrel...
> 
> ...


 
Wow. The big White hunter in Africa kinda thing! You must be proud!


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> Wow. The big White hunter in Africa kinda thing! You must be proud!



I was hoping it would be tougher....


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> I was hoping it would be tougher....


 
Don't really have the time or effort as I'm trying to write code in between our little treatise's! But I'm glad I could entertain you and stroke your ego!


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> Don't really have the time or effort as I'm trying to write code in between our little treatise's! But I'm glad I could entertain you and stroke your ego!



I'm in the same boat... But I'm done with the code and I'm writing "best practices"...

That being said.. i hate it when I'm on call and skiing and actually get a call..  (wow another bad thread - Cell Phone use on the hill)


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## WJenness (Dec 15, 2008)

rachelv said:


> Lugging a ski bag and a boot bag on the subway on the way to the train/airport/etc. Fun fact: a transpack XT1 with your boots in it is *just* wide enough to not fit through a subway turnstyle. Take it off before you walk through to avoid being the person who gets stuck in the turnstyle.



Hysterical.

Thank you for that image.

-w


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

rachelv said:


> Fun fact: a transpack XT1 with your boots in it is *just* wide enough to not fit through a subway turnstyle. Take it off before you walk through to avoid being the person who gets stuck in the turnstyle.



Great advice!


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## Beetlenut (Dec 15, 2008)

dmc said:


> I'm in the same boat... But I'm done with the code and I'm writing "best practices"...
> 
> That being said.. i hate it when I'm on call and skiing and actually get a call.. (wow another bad thread - Cell Phone use on the hill)


 
Ha, that's the reason for your pleasent demeanor! Documentation will do that to a man!


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## dmc (Dec 15, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> Ha, that's the reason for your pleasent demeanor! Documentation will do that to a man!



yeah..


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## skiing is life (Dec 15, 2008)

private school 13 year old rich kids who crowd up the park with bullshit. who think a 360 is "rad". who dress like gapers and act tough in front of theyre friends. 

my local resort opens in mid december and closes in late march..weak.

ski bunnies. i am really pissed off by those people. they ski/ride to look cute and care about nothing else.  they stick to the long green groomers and if you ever get to know them, theyre a total...yeah. Im still on my quest to find one of the three. 

really long lift lines

cold hands/wet gloves

im glad none of you know my adress else id probably be sleeping with the fishies after i tell you this one. MOGULS I DETEST THEM! i hosnestly dont know what you guys see in them. Everybodys different though.


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## JD (Dec 15, 2008)

I hate fur ski gear.


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## Paul (Dec 15, 2008)

all them damn dirty hippies


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## loafer89 (Dec 15, 2008)

The really foul language in use by some of the younger crowd both on the lifts and trails. It's sort of acceptable when skiing alone, but embarassing when I ski with my son. 

How incredibly expensive skiing has become, sure you can find deals and save money, but most lift tickets are $$$$, especially during school vacation. Food at most resorts is not very tasty and lunch costs what a full take out/sit down dinner can be had for at home.

The long drive to most decent skiing.

People skiing too fast or out of control on family runs or slow skiing areas.

Ski areas where valet parking sits unused and occupies major areas of desirable parking.


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## ski9 (Dec 16, 2008)

bobbutts said:


> Someday you may find out that being polite is preferable to cleaning your own blood from your jacket when you threaten the wrong person.   Do you always jump to threats of violence when people do things you don't like?



If you had a spray bottle filled with skunk scent, would someone have to politely ask you to NOT spray it on them while riding up a lift? I mean, really, is there any difference?

And have you ever once seen someone snub out their butt and put it in their pocket on the lift? F*ck no. It gets added to the landscape for 500 years or until someone else picks it up.

And, for the record, I've survived five wars, which has left me feeling somewhat comfortable being rude to wheezing chain smokers on chair lifts.

Back on topic: I hate watching people litter the slopes with anything.


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## JD (Dec 16, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> skiers



Dude....we were here first....go side slip some woods runs.


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## severine (Dec 16, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> skiers


Yeah, me, too.


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## hammer (Dec 16, 2008)

Overall lack of courtesy on the slopes...I get enough on the roads, thank you very much...:angry:


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## Beetlenut (Dec 16, 2008)

paid preferred parking areas! WTF?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

hammer said:


> Overall lack of courtesy on the slopes...I get enough on the roads, thank you very much...:angry:



You mean you don't like when people fly at mach 5 through crowds of people????


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> paid preferred parking areas! WTF?



Skiing is mostly rich people..get over it..


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## hammer (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> You mean you don't like when people fly at mach 5 through crowds of people????


Not unless I can stick my foot out in front of them...:wink:


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## Beetlenut (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Skiing is mostly rich people..get over it..


 
You ski don't you?


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## RootDKJ (Dec 16, 2008)

I've watched this thread for 3 pages now and I'm hard pressed to find something about skiing that I truly hate.  I dislike walking up/down stairs in ski boots, but that's just a reality of the sport.  I dislike getting up at 5:30 in the morning, but do so cause I want to avoid the crowds.  I dislike people smoking cigarettes on the lift (or lift line) and have always asked them to save it to the top with no problems.  I dislike paying 7 bucks for a burger, so I pack my own sandwiches.

It's all about balance I guess or I just love to ski so much, there's very little room left to hate.


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## severine (Dec 16, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I need to convert you over to riding .. you make a sweet Betty ..


I'm considering a freebie lesson this weekend actually... free rentals, free beginner lift ticket, free lesson. How could I say no?


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## Beetlenut (Dec 16, 2008)

severine said:


> I'm considering a freebie lesson this weekend actually... free rentals, free beginner lift ticket, free lesson. How could I say no?


 
NO!  See just like that!  Don't go over to the darkside!  However if you must, wear some rollerblading wrist guards, you'll thank me!


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> I hate $16 tabs for 2 Harpoon IPAs....(wtf, Waterville?)
> .
> 
> I hate June.



Dude Tell me about it, we were at wateville last sunday, me and my girl it was 34$ for two cheese burgers and we split a drink for crying out loud. WTF is right?


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## drjeff (Dec 16, 2008)

severine said:


> I'm considering a freebie lesson this weekend actually... free rentals, free beginner lift ticket, free lesson. How could I say no?



Let's start with these








then move onto one of these






 

and then add in one of these for good measure


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Let's start with these
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMG That looked like a ruff ruff ruff day.

I think that dude needs some painkillers and a martini Stat!


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## frozencorn (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Dude Tell me about it, we were at wateville last sunday, me and my girl it was 34$ for two cheese burgers and we split a drink for crying out loud. WTF is right?



Yeah, that's just it. I'm used to paying a higher premium at a ski pub on site. But no place I've been in the east - or West for that matter - has ever charged me as much for a beer as Waterville the other day. I was floored. Even Stowe is like $5.50 a pop if I recall. $6.75 per beer could have gotten me a six pack down the highway.


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## RootDKJ (Dec 16, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> $6.75 per beer could have gotten me a six pack down the highway.


exactly...a few road sodas in the parking lot help ease the pain of a $7beer.


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

Road sodas
lol
Nice


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

People who complain about ski area food and drink prices..it's the same difference as going to an amusement park or sporting event..the ski areas have a captive audience..If I'm on a ski trip I just suck it up and buy a $8 bowl of chili and $4 gatorade..it's worth it for the view..


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## severine (Dec 16, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Let's start with these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who complain about ski area food and drink prices..it's the same difference as going to an amusement park or sporting event..the ski areas have a captive audience..If I'm on a ski trip I just suck it up and buy a $8 bowl of chili and $4 gatorade..it's worth it for the view..



Maybe some of us are just lucky to even be there nevermind extreamley high food prices.

I personally pack a lunch because i can barley afford my lift ticket... Maybe you would like to adopt me seeing as you appear to be indepently wealthy?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Maybe some of us are just lucky to even be there nevermind extreamley high food prices.
> 
> I personally pack a lunch because i can barley afford my lift ticket... Maybe you would like to adopt me seeing as you appear to be indepently wealthy?



I'm not independently wealthy but an extra $10 isn't going to kill me.  It's up to me whether I choose to pay the high prices ski areas charge for food and drink.  For me, I usually buy ski area lunches when I'm on a ski trip and at the local hill I eat before and after I ski..and occasionally spring for some Pierogies.  It's all about choices.  I have a $150 TV while most of my friends have $1,000 plus flat screens and I drive a modest car so I can afford to take mad steezy ski trips...it's all about choice.  If I had a wife and kids..I'm guessing I'd ski once a week at best but I'd be having alot more sex..


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I'm not independently wealthy but an extra $10 isn't going to kill me.  It's up to me whether I choose to pay the high prices ski areas charge for food and drink.  For me, I usually buy ski area lunches when I'm on a ski trip and at the local hill I eat before and after I ski..and occasionally spring for some Pierogies.  It's all about choices.  I have a $150 TV while most of my friends have $1,000 plus flat screens and I drive a modest car so I can afford to take mad steezy ski trips...it's all about choice.  If I had a wife and kids..I'm guessing I'd ski once a week at best but I'd be having alot more sex..



If it was $10 i wouldnt mind, but last week it cost me 34$ for a soda and two burgers for me and my girl ontop of $130 for two life tickets and 40$ in gas. At this rate ill be cancleing my comcast, living by candle light to avoid an electric bill, and walking to work if i wanna ski. Either that or she needs to get a damn JOB!!!! Atleast i got the sex part though 8)


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## frozencorn (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Maybe some of us are just lucky to even be there nevermind extreamley high food prices.
> 
> I personally pack a lunch because i can barley afford my lift ticket... Maybe you would like to adopt me seeing as you appear to be indepently wealthy?



No doubt. Between baby sitters, lunch, apres.....GSS is having no problem spending a lot of my money today. 

I pack a lunch. Healthier, cheaper, and I can eat it wherever I want on mountain. Do I bitch about the price of beer at a concert or a game? You bet. I paid $10 for a beer at the Trey Anastasio show recently. $10. I had one, of course. One. But I guess I should be thankful to them for providing me with the drink at all, right? 

Now, do I buy nine of them normally at a higher price at the mountain? No. I understand it's going to be a buck more or so there. But when I think I'm paying an extravangant price - in my estimation - for something I understand is going to be overpriced anyway, I'll check and make sure it's OK first.


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## RootDKJ (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who complain about ski area food and drink prices..it's the same difference as going to an amusement park or sporting event..the ski areas have a captive audience..If I'm on a ski trip I just suck it up and buy a $8 bowl of chili and $4 gatorade..it's worth it for the view..


thats why I don't do sporting events or amusement parks...gotta save the $$$ for ski trips


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## frozencorn (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> If I had a wife and kids..I'm guessing I'd ski once a week at best but I'd be having alot more sex..



You got the once a week part right......the sex, on the other hand,......


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> If it was $10 i wouldnt mind, but last week it cost me 34$ for a soda and two burgers for me and my girl ontop of $130 for two life tickets and 40$ in gas. At this rate ill be cancleing my comcast, living by candle light to avoid an electric bill, and walking to work if i wanna ski. Either that or she needs to get a damn JOB!!!! Atleast i got the sex part though 8)





The burger were $15 each..something smells fishy..did you get fries or perhaps a cookie???:flame: $40 in gas..???  Do you drive a Hummer??  Your girl needs a job..she should stop mooching off you..


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The burger were $15 each..something smells fishy..did you get fries or perhaps a cookie???:flame: $40 in gas..???  Do you drive a Hummer??  Your girl needs a job..she should stop mooching off you..



They were 13.95 each plus a drink at like $5 or something crazy. And not a hummer but might as well be with the gas milage i get. 2008 Jeep grand cherokee with a V8, so that dont help.
O well, it is what it is.


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## 4aprice (Dec 16, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> paid preferred parking areas! WTF?



Oh don't get me started.  Camelback is trying this.  So far it has been a total failure but only pass holders are really skiing right now.  I know they are holding out for the main part of the season and day trippers.  Hopefully they won't take the bait either and it will be gone by mid season.  Apparently it worked for them during the summer Camelbeach season.  I guess that's what we get for hiring a former Mountain Creek GM.

As far as food even with my daughter being an instructor and getting 50% off we still pack lunches.  I also pack a portable bar and have a couple in the lot before heading to the bar.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> They were 13.95 each plus a drink at like $5 or something crazy. And not a hummer but might as well be with the gas milage i get. 2008 Jeep grand cherokee with a V8, so that dont help.
> O well, it is what it is.



LOL..so you have a $30,000 brand new vehicle and you are complaining about a $14 Hamburger...LMFAO!!!!...People are strange..I think the Hamburgers at Blue mountain are $3.50 but they're worth about a buck and a quarter..


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## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> LOL..so you have a $30,000 brand new vehicle and you are complaining about a $14 Hamburger...LMFAO!!!!...People are strange..I think the Hamburgers at Blue mountain are $3.50 but they're worth about a buck and a quarter..



Im not complaining at all, someone else was complaing about priceing and i agreed (if you read the whole convo) because i do think that 14 bucks for a burger is nuts. Thats all

And like i said, i pack my lunch noramlly because i can afford to buy the food, i am just lucky to be there. In regards to my jeep, Dont be a hater ( just kidding) I only have it for work, its a company truck i couldnt afford that either


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Im not complaining at all, someone else was complaing about priceing and i agreed (if you read the whole convo) because i do think that 14 bucks for a burger is nuts. Thats all
> 
> And like i said, i pack my lunch noramlly because i can afford to buy the food, i am just lucky to be there. In regards to my jeep, Dont be a hater ( just kidding) I only have it for work, its a company truck i couldnt afford that either




Not hating just post whoring..the most I ever paid for a beer was $9.50 but it was for a Delierium Tremans..luckily at the local bar..domestic drafts are $1.25 during Happy Hour..

I do hate that ski areas charge almost full price for the WROD..$65 for opening day at Killington is rediculous..but I wanted to ski so I paid it.  I also dislike the fact that ski shops are such a ripoff..I'd frequent them if they could at least get their prices close to online prices..


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## lerops (Dec 16, 2008)

I don't hate anything "about skiing". What I hate are things that could keep me from skiing. I am guessing everybody is on the same boat. I hate living in NY, by the way.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I also dislike the fact that ski shops are such a ripoff..I'd frequent them if they could at least get their prices close to online prices..



try running a ski shop before you throw out a blanket statement like that.  The inexpensive stuff you're grabbing online is carry over merch that was bought on close out...there are brick and mortar shops who do the same thing and offer the same types of prices...but you can't compare the prices of this year's merch in stores to the price of last year's online and say that shops are ripping you off.  The margins in the ski industry, from manufacturer to retailer and retailer to consumer aren't all that high to begin with...this ain't the jewlery business.


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## severine (Dec 16, 2008)

frozencorn said:


> You got the once a week part right......the sex, on the other hand,......


Speak for yourself!



OldsnowboarderME said:


> Sounds like an excellent opportunity to me .. the price is certainly right.. Do they use the Burton learn to ride program?


Their website is not easily navigated for info on this, but I did see something on there about that program. They do this every year on the Saturday before Christmas; learn to ski or board for free. I've never been before; it's probably uber crowded. But I figured it was a great way to give it a shot without it costing me anything. I'm not sure if I'm ready for it this year though...


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## billski (Dec 16, 2008)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> try running a ski shop before you throw out a blanket statement like that.  The inexpensive stuff you're grabbing online is carry over merch that was bought on close out...there are brick and mortar shops who do the same thing and offer the same types of prices...but you can't compare the prices of this year's merch in stores to the price of last year's online and say that shops are ripping you off.  The margins in the ski industry, from manufacturer to retailer and retailer to consumer aren't all that high to begin with...this ain't the jewlery business.



OK, I'll bite.  What are the margins to the manufacturer?
On a $1200 list price high end ski/binding combo?
On a $400 list entry level ski/binding combo?
On a $600 list set of boots?
I'd like to understand who is getting what markup.  Do ski shops buy direct from the manufacturer or is there a middleman?

Thanks!


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## snoseek (Dec 16, 2008)

ski9 said:


> If you had a spray bottle filled with skunk scent, would someone have to politely ask you to NOT spray it on them while riding up a lift? I mean, really, is there any difference?
> 
> And have you ever once seen someone snub out their butt and put it in their pocket on the lift? F*ck no. It gets added to the landscape for 500 years or until someone else picks it up.
> 
> ...



So you're saying that you drive a small low emission vehicle, always but local produce (no tomatos in winter), bring your own cup into the local coffee shop, carpool, earn your own turns, live in a sustainable small home, avoid meat and fish from mass produced sources ect...?

I can assure you that a filter that could very well be cotton does far less damage than a half hour of your life, no need to get so butthurt about someone polluting "your" air or ground.


fwiw I eat tomatos in January and ride chairlifts.


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## bobbutts (Dec 16, 2008)

ski9 said:


> If you had a spray bottle filled with skunk scent, would someone have to politely ask you to NOT spray it on them while riding up a lift? I mean, really, is there any difference?
> 
> And have you ever once seen someone snub out their butt and put it in their pocket on the lift? F*ck no. It gets added to the landscape for 500 years or until someone else picks it up.
> 
> ...



Threatening and being rude are two totally different things.  
Your threat to throw someone from a chairlift is criminal assault, so unless they've started giving veterans immunity to the law you have no right to do that.


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## ski9 (Dec 16, 2008)

snoseek said:


> So you're saying that you drive a small low emission vehicle, always but local produce (no tomatos in winter), bring your own cup into the local coffee shop, carpool, earn your own turns, live in a sustainable small home, avoid meat and fish from mass produced sources ect...?
> 
> I can assure you that a filter that could very well be cotton does far less damage than a half hour of your life, no need to get so butthurt about someone polluting "your" air or ground.
> 
> ...



Dude, I hate to tell you, but if you smoke cigarettes, your clothes reek. Nowhere did I mention pollution...I was saying that if you smoke next to someone, both people end up STINKING.


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## Glenn (Dec 16, 2008)

billski said:


> OK, I'll bite.  What are the margins to the manufacturer?
> On a $1200 list price high end ski/binding combo?
> On a $400 list entry level ski/binding combo?
> On a $600 list set of boots?
> ...




The shop I worked for in the mid/late 90's had a buyer. This buyer bought for a variety of other shops. I don't know where they were or who they were. I just remember the owner always saying it was one of the largest groups and they got good prices because of it.


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## snoseek (Dec 16, 2008)

ski9 said:


> Dude, I hate to tell you, but if you smoke cigarettes, your clothes reek. Nowhere did I mention pollution...I was saying that if you smoke next to someone, both people end up STINKING.



I used to smoke but no longer do. I also have come to the point where the smell bothers me but somehow manage to tolerate. As an ex-smoker I always asked before lighting up and did not litter. I never ask if I can crack a beer on the lift.....who cares.


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

JD said:


> I hate people who drop names and the names of places they've skiied in an attempt to validate themselves.



Damn!  I was hoping to post " When I was walking up rt.108 I ran into J.D. and we traded stash the rest of the day"


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

drjeff said:


> People that smoke in the liftline



and don't share


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I hate it when I squeeze the trigger and realize the safety is still on ....



Damn!  Another knuckledragger got away.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

ski220 said:


> and don't share



times two..I get blunted off a marlboro light because I only smoke one about once a month..hook a brotha up..


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

dmc said:


> People that boot pack up skin tracks...



Or ski back down the bootback trashing it.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

That it's only a seasonal sport for 99 percent of us..


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## ripzillia (Dec 16, 2008)

Haha GC. I live 60 miles from year round skiing. But only go ever couple of Summers. I went skiing today and observed skiers/riders coming down a run. About 1 out of every 30 could rail an edge. Pity. Course where I ski its flat and soft so you really don't need to be a carver like the Ice coast.


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## ERJ-145CA (Dec 16, 2008)

Nothing.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

ripzillia said:


> Haha GC. I live 60 miles from year round skiing. But only go ever couple of Summers. I went skiing today and observed skiers/riders coming down a run. About 1 out of every 30 could rail an edge. Pity. Course where I ski its flat and soft so you really don't need to be a carver like the Ice coast.



What's with people who can't lay down railroad tracks...


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## Greg (Dec 16, 2008)

ski9 said:


> Dude, I hate to tell you, but if you smoke cigarettes, your clothes reek. Nowhere did I mention pollution...I was saying that if you smoke next to someone, both people end up STINKING.



I think you're going a wee bit over the top here. I've sat next to plenty of people on the lift while they smoked a butt, and I never ended up stinking. Come on. Let's be real.


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

snoseek said:


> I can assure you that a filter that could very well be cotton does far less damage than a half hour of your life, no need to get so butthurt about someone polluting "your" air or ground.
> 
> .



cigerette filters are not cotton.  if you research it, cigerrete butts are one of the longer lasting debris out there.  Plus all the other plastic wrappers, liners and packages that get regularly tossed out the car window.  

That all being said, ask politely first and if that doesn't do the trick - escalate.

Which reminds me that ......


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

I hate people that barge your gondola because they are afraid to ride up with the snow boarders and then get offended when you want to light up.


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## snoseek (Dec 16, 2008)

ski220 said:


> cigerette filters are not cotton.  if you research it, cigerrete butts are one of the longer lasting debris out there.  Plus all the other plastic wrappers, liners and packages that get regularly tossed out the car window.
> 
> That all being said, ask politely first and if that doesn't do the trick - escalate.
> 
> Which reminds me that ......



I was just trying to bring the point across that their are so many other way more important environmental issues than a cig butt. Camels and basics are two brands that use cotton filters I'm pretty sure, along with hand rolled filters. 

I will say that littering is incredibly lazy and selfish though.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 16, 2008)

ski220 said:


> I hate people that barge your gondola because they are afraid to ride up with the snow boarders and then get offended when you want to light up.



I had an interesting ganjala ride at Jackson Hole last season with...

2 corporate looking guys
2 old hippies..
myself
J-hole crunchy bro brah gnar sweet change for a nickle dude

Anyway..it's a family site so use your imagination.....

I hate that no Pennsylvania ski areas have gondolas or Trams..


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## JD (Dec 16, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> What's with people who can't lay down railroad tracks...



bumpers.


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## billski (Dec 16, 2008)

Cranky AZers when there is no snow...


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## ski220 (Dec 16, 2008)

ski220 said:


> I hate people that barge your gondola because they are afraid to ride up with the snow boarders and then get offended when you want to light up.



Yeh.  This happened at Jackson last year too.  Skiing with a crew of 5 plus 1, we requested a private and were accomodated.  A properally dressed middle aged women from the $4 Seasons in the singles line was directed to the 'dola behind us that was carrying a bunch of border dudes.  We saw her looking into the cab and then she ran up to ours and literally jumped in befoer the door closed.  Mistake!


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## hardline (Dec 16, 2008)

ski220 said:


> Yeh.  This happened at Jackson last year too.  Skiing with a crew of 5 plus 1, we requested a private and were accomodated.  A properally dressed middle aged women from the $4 Seasons in the singles line was directed to the 'dola behind us that was carrying a bunch of border dudes.  We saw her looking into the cab and then she ran up to ours and literally jumped in befoer the door closed.  Mistake!



i had some gomer do that at stowe. the lifty told him to wait. when the doors opened at the top the dude just stumbled out of the car and we were in tears laughing/coughing.


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## JD (Dec 17, 2008)

Once 2 of us had a 3rd get in.  He said he hadn't partaken in 15 years, but he just ditched the wife and kids and had the whole afternoon soff.  He took several draws of the shit that killed elvis.  After about 2 minutes he went completely silent.  Shit ain't what it used to be.....he either had the best afternoon of his life or went to the ER.


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## Mauleflyer (Dec 17, 2008)

Long walks from the car to the lodge on icy surfaces carrying all your own gear plus half of your daughters.  Then trying to find a locker or a place to put all the crap.  Once I am on the slopes I forget about it all.


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## billski (Dec 17, 2008)

I have a love-hate relationship with gear.  Too much @%^#$^.   But @%^#$^ is a mandatory requirement to play the game.


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## 2knees (Dec 17, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> What's with people who can't lay down railroad tracks...



i can lay some nasty pipe.


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## ripzillia (Dec 17, 2008)

I don't know why they don't want to carve GS? Once you feel "the force" you never go back.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 17, 2008)

ripzillia said:


> I don't know why they don't want to carve GS? Once you feel "the force" you never go back.



Hell yeah..the other night when it was hero snow..I was feeling more G's than an Oakland hooker..


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## tjf67 (Dec 17, 2008)

ski220 said:


> cigerette filters are not cotton.  if you research it, cigerrete butts are one of the longer lasting debris out there.  Plus all the other plastic wrappers, liners and packages that get regularly tossed out the car window.
> 
> That all being said, ask politely first and if that doesn't do the trick - escalate.
> 
> Which reminds me that ......




I saw on the discovery channel little rodents go after butts like its no ones business.  It add insulation to the burrows and gives them a buzz when they chew on them.


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## Brettski (Dec 17, 2008)

I hate never having had sex in the old k Gondi


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## Brettski (Dec 17, 2008)

Or Stowes...


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## Brettski (Dec 17, 2008)

Or Gores....well that one was...coooooooooooold...

Everything is way to fast now


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## ccskier (Dec 17, 2008)

jaywbigred said:


> Things I hate about skiing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a major pain, or when the stalls are super small and the door is chest height.  At Jay they have midget stalls in the stateside lodge that when you stand up to get yourself back together you are staring at people.

I also hate people smoking in the lift line.  I also will have a butt now and again, but when it comes to being around people, leave it in the car.  It bugs the crap out of me.  On a side note, when I was walking out of a pat's game this fall this couple in front of me were smoking when we were all huddled together trying to get out, it was rediculous.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 17, 2008)

ccskier said:


> This is a major pain, or when the stalls are super small and the door is chest height.  At Jay they have midget stalls in the stateside lodge that when you stand up to get yourself back together you are staring at people.
> 
> I also hate people smoking in the lift line.  I also will have a butt now and again, but when it comes to being around people, leave it in the car.  It bugs the crap out of me.  On a side note, when I was walking out of a pat's game this fall this couple in front of me were smoking when we were all huddled together trying to get out, it was rediculous.



Not everybody is considerate.  Most ski areas seem to have bathrooms in the basement or down a flight of steps..and ski boots and wet metal or even concrete steps suck.  

The old Headwall Pizza at Jackson Hole:  

2 slices of pizza...8 bucks

1 20 ounce gatorade..$3.75

Wet concrete floor...leading to ass over teakettle fall and luckily my pizza landing crust side down...Priceless...

The wooden ramp in the lower lodge at Blue..usually wet combined with plastic ski boots equals..another GSS ass over teakettle fall..

The 1999 Ski Vermont Discussion list partee at Stowe..I didn't duck the rope onto bypass low enough and my forehead caught the rope and another ass over teakettle yard sale and I was a few inches from being decapitated..mad Homer Simpson..Doh!!!!


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## bigbog (Dec 17, 2008)

*...can say that again...*



Warp Daddy said:


> i hate having to get up at the  crack of dawn for a   1.5 - 3 hr drive to the  hill  and envy those who live within 10-15 minutes of decent skiing



1+
..The early AM drive-thing..up here in the boonies I get into, but agreed...the 1hr+ part, thru several small towns, just doesn't float my boat anymore..
Have a couple of small, skin-up mountains within 45min....but nothing like Sugarloaf...


----------

