# GSS Banned



## drjeff (Sep 11, 2009)

As much as I've thought some of his other close calls to banning we're questionable, this AM's 9-11 rant is definately a time out worthy event IMHO.  +1 to the mods!!


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

Before this thread gets too long with replies and opinions I will chime in and simply state that this has been coming for some time. Doug had many warnings (a lot more than what was given to other members that were banned). His insensitivity towards the anniversary of 9/11 was the final straw. You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level. I'm usually one of the more easy going mods, but that left me pissed and considering his history, I say good riddance. AZ will be a different place without him, no doubt. I think it will be better.


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 11, 2009)

Last minute apology not enough eh? Maybe he'll think before he speaks in the future ... err never mind.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Last minute apology not enough eh? Maybe he'll think before he speaks in the future ... err never mind.



Clearly damage control. He's 30 years old. Very little hope for him.


----------



## SkiDork (Sep 11, 2009)

I personally didn't take offense at his comment, I guess I'm used to people making dorky posts on forums by now and I pretty much just ignore them.  But its your forum


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> Before this thread gets too long with replies and opinions I will chime in and simply state that this has been coming for some time. Doug had many warnings (a lot more than what was given to other members that were banned). His insensitivity towards the anniversary of 9/11 was the final straw. You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level. I'm usually one of the more easy going mods, but that left me pissed and considering his history, I say good riddance. AZ will be a different place without him, no doubt. I think it will be better.



So this is permanent and not a time-out?


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> Before this thread gets too long with replies and opinions I will chime in and simply state that this has been coming for some time. Doug had many warnings (a lot more than what was given to other members that were banned). His insensitivity towards the anniversary of 9/11 was the final straw. You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level. I'm usually one of the more easy going mods, but that left me pissed and considering his history, I say good riddance. AZ will be a different place without him, no doubt. I think it will be better.



+ 1.  We discussed this decision at length.  We applied the same criteria we apply to any other person that is acting inappropriately.  Of the four mods and admins who are here on a regular basis, the decision was unanimous.  Contrary to urban legend, this is not something that we take lightly or that we that we enjoy doing.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So this is permanent and not a time-out?



Permanent.


----------



## Geoff (Sep 11, 2009)

SkiVT-L version 2.0.   On that email list, it was pretty split between people who were entertained by the guy and people who get tired of the endless insensitive trolls.   I found the guy entertaining enough to collect a Doogie's Greatest Hits on SkiVT-L.   I thought he was funnier as a teenager when it was unintentional.

One thing.... you can't deny his passion for skiing.   In that, he's very much like me.  I got hooked as a little kid and never lost it.   He's the same way.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

I whole hartedly disagree with this. IMO his comments were not Worth getting banned, you guys were just looking for an excuse to ban him. This site is already boring enough latly, this decision will make it even more so. 

I wonder how long it will take for me to get a warning for disagreeing with the mods?


----------



## andyzee (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm no fan of GSS. But, in my opinion, censoring someone's opinion if you don't agree with it is a dangerous thing. There's a 100 others things that he could have been banned for, I believe this to be a mistake.


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

OldSnowboarderME will refrain from making any comments and so will iwon't .. ( About the banned GrillSteezeSandwich )


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I'm no fan of GSS. But, in my opinion, censoring someone's opinion if you don't agree with it is a dangerous thing.


Just because you happen to be in possession of an opinion doesn't necessary mean you are entitled to share it or express it anyway you want..


----------



## Geoff (Sep 11, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I'm no fan of GSS. But, in my opinion, censoring someone's opinion if you don't agree with it is a dangerous thing.



I see it as similar to when Sugarloaf pulled the pass of somebody who took an internet pot shot at a public-facing employee for how he was quoted in the press for a skier death.    I supported Sugarloaf for giving the guy a dope slap for being so insensitive.   I wouldn't want to be the Sugarloaf employee riding in the ambulance and having to call the parents.  What a shit job.   This is similar.   Doug, there are indeed times when it's better to keep your mouth shut and this was one of them.   

In the Sugarloaf situation, the guy got his pass back eventually.  I think it would be better to do the same kind of thing with Dougie.  This message board is way more entertaining with him around to stir the pot.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> I whole hartedly disagree with this. IMO his comments were not Worth getting banned, you guys were just looking for an excuse to ban him. This site is already boring enough latly, this decision will make it even more so.



This was coming for some time indeed. Ultimately there will be a "final straw" when someone is banned. He was well aware he was being scrutinized. Personally, I don't take any insensitive comments about 9/11 lightly. One other member was ultimately banned for a similar reason, but it wasn't the only reason.



MR. evil said:


> I wonder how long it will take for me to get a warning for disagreeing with the mods?



Pretty lame that you post this Tim. I think you know Brian and me at least pretty well. Neither of us or any other mods have tried to stifle opinions and have never banned anyone for differing opinions.



andyzee said:


> I'm no fan of GSS. But, in my opinion, censoring someone's opinion if you don't agree with it is a dangerous thing.



Andy - GSS was not banned for his opinion. He was ultimately banned for several things he's done over the course of his time here. Think of it as cumulative. His post this morning was meant to get a reaction, and well, he got it. We've given him the benefit of the doubt for a long time. How long are we supposed to do that? People have been screaming for consistency here lately. Our tolerance of GSS for so long was not at all consistent with how we've handled things in the past. Either you folks want a moderated forum, or not. Sorry, but we're not going to be able to please everyone.


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> I whole hartedly disagree with this. IMO his comments were not Worth getting banned, you guys were just looking for an excuse to ban him. This site is already boring enough latly, this decision will make it even more so.
> 
> I wonder how long it will take for me to get a warning for disagreeing with the mods?



I got yer back, Helmet...

Obviously it would've been best for Doug to not throw his 2 cents in considering his history, however, it was his idiom to do so. Doug knew he was on a slippery slope by trying to make a somewhat veiled political comment in an obviously politically charged thread. Granted his tact was horrid and how he said what he said was in poor taste. However, I have to agree with the overall sentiment. It's a sad time for the United States when we've become so complacent that waving a $0.10 flag and saying "Never Forget" once a year is all it takes to be considered patriotic. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy that changed our way of life dramatically. The United States' response to it was almost as abhorrent, from the pols to the general public. Many of the main conspiritors and financial backers of said conspiritors are still at large, meanwhile we've further de-stabilized an already unstable region and sunk into debt that our great-great-great grandchildren will still be mired with.
Sorry, but it just grinds my gears watching people suddenly remember to be "patriotic" on an anniversary, but go back to turning a blind-eye and following the herd the other 364 days a year.

AMF


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 11, 2009)

I support the decision.  Irregardless of whether people agree with 'the final straw', what needs to be understood is that the amount of complaints submitted to the moderating team from other members concerning GSS was more than double every other member combined.  Even though I've only been a moderator for a couple of months, all complaints are logged and the amount over his time here is staggering. This ultimately is the reasoning and as Greg has mentioned, he was given much more slack and many more chances than others banned prior to him.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So this is permanent and not a time-out?





Greg said:


> Permanent.





Geoff said:


> In the Sugarloaf situation, the guy got his pass back eventually.  I think it would be better to do the same kind of thing with Dougie.  This message board is way more entertaining with him around to stir the pot.



I'm not opposed to temporary bans but when we proposed it, it was met with a fair amount of opposition. Less than 50% of the members supported it, and usually I won't make a policy change unless a clear majority supports it. We'll likely revisit the idea at some point.


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

I grieve for every allied causality (KIA) fighting this current war.. and remember we are at war.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> Before this thread gets too long with replies and opinions I will chime in and simply state that this has been coming for some time. Doug had many warnings (a lot more than what was given to other members that were banned). His insensitivity towards the anniversary of 9/11 was the final straw. You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level. I'm usually one of the more easy going mods, but that left me pissed and considering his history, I say good riddance. AZ will be a different place without him, no doubt. I think it will be better.



That was the straw.  He left you pissd and you took you ball and went home.  Typical.

Was he wrong  YES,  Is this a forum YES,   Should he have banned NO WAY   
Will it be better.  you are out of your chicken.  In the not to distant future and is going to be you and a couple of your buddies on here and thats it.  Can't help with the fore sale sign.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 11, 2009)

thetrailboss said:


> + 1.  We discussed this decision at length.  We applied the same criteria we apply to any other person that is acting inappropriately.  Of the four mods and admins who are here on a regular basis, the decision was unanimous.  Contrary to urban legend, this is not something that we take lightly or that we that we enjoy doing.



BS


----------



## St. Bear (Sep 11, 2009)

This affects my life in so few ways that I don't even need any fingers to count.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> This affects my life in so few ways that I don't even need any fingers to count.



:lol: St. Bear FTW!


----------



## St. Bear (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> :lol: St. Bear FTW!



What does FTW mean?  I see it in alot of posts.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 11, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I support the decision.  Irregardless of whether people agree with 'the final straw', what needs to be understood is that the amount of complaints submitted to the moderating team from other members concerning GSS was more than double every other member combined.  Even though I've only been a moderator for a couple of months, all complaints are logged and the amount over his time here is staggering. This ultimately is the reasoning and as Greg has mentioned, he was given much more slack and many more chances than others banned prior to him.





of course you do you drank the cool aide.  HAHA   

His post were more and quadrouple everyone else so you should espect more complaint.


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> What does FTW mean?  I see it in alot of posts.



For The Win


It means Greg now owes you a cookie.


----------



## Geoff (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> I'm not opposed to temporary bans but when we proposed it, it was met with a fair amount of opposition. Less than 50% of the members supported it, and usually I won't make a policy change unless a clear majority supports it. We'll likely revisit the idea at some point.



You kind of have to let him back in leading up to his first ski day of the year and the follow-up trip report with the video.   I suggest that you lift the ban the day the snow guns get turned on.


I wonder how hard it would be to implement a "Delete offensive GSS post" button all the users can press?  We can all be GSS mods.  99% of his stuff is just fine.


----------



## Glenn (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level.



Agreed.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> Pretty lame that you post this Tim. I think you know Brian and me at least pretty well.  Neither of us or any other mods have tried to stifle opinions and have never banned anyone for differing opinions.



This wasn't a shot at you or Brian! Sorry you took it that way. But some of the other mods here have been a little heavy handed lately and I know several people currently not posting on AZ becuase of them.


----------



## tarponhead (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> :lol: St. Bear FTW!



You going to ban someone I respectfully suggest you _try_ to appear impartial about it.

PS. "irregardless" is NOT a word


----------



## hammer (Sep 11, 2009)

tarponhead said:


> PS. "irregardless" is NOT a word


But it has an entry on Wikipedia...doesn't that make it legitimate? ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless

No comment on the thread topic...


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level.


I agree.  



thetrailboss said:


> + 1.  We discussed this decision at length.  We applied the same criteria we apply to any other person that is acting inappropriately.  Of the four mods and admins who are here on a regular basis, the decision was unanimous.  Contrary to urban legend, this is not something that we take lightly or that we that we enjoy doing.



Ok.



Geoff said:


> One thing.... you can't deny his passion for skiing.   In that, he's very much like me.  I got hooked as a little kid and never lost it.   He's the same way.


He really does eat/sleep/breathe skiing.  



Greg said:


> Permanent.





Greg said:


> I'm not opposed to temporary bans but when we proposed it, it was met with a fair amount of opposition. Less than 50% of the members supported it, and usually I won't make a policy change unless a clear majority supports it. We'll likely revisit the idea at some point.


I'd support a temp ban.  I for one would probably be too embarrassed to post back for a while anyway...



Geoff said:


> I wonder how hard it would be to implement a "Delete offensive GSS post" button all the users can press?  We can all be GSS mods.  99% of his stuff is just fine.



Interesting concept.  On another message board I use that also runs vBulletin they use a "reputation" feature, where quality posts awarded "points" and dumb ass posts you lose "points". Other then that, it doesn't do really anything.

It's been a long off season....


----------



## bvibert (Sep 11, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Interesting concept.  On another message board I use that also runs vBulletin they use a "reputation" feature, where quality posts awarded "points" and dumb ass posts you lose "points". Other then that, it doesn't do really anything.



We tried using that very system in the past.  It did not go over very well at all, so we stopped.
http://forums.alpinezone.com/8410-user-reputations-ii.html


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

tarponhead said:


> You going to ban someone I respectfully suggest you _try_ to appear impartial about it.



Okay. Fair enough. I just thought St. Bear added a bit of needed levity to this thread.



tarponhead said:


> PS. "irregardless" is NOT a word



I'm sure DHS appreciates the grammar lesson.


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 11, 2009)

bvibert said:


> We tried using that very system in the past.  It did not go over very well at all, so we stopped.
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/8410-user-reputations-ii.html



Didn't know.  Maybe it's time to re-think the idea. I don't really care either way.  Just food for thought.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

Paul said:


> I got yer back, Helmet...
> 
> Obviously it would've been best for Doug to not throw his 2 cents in considering his history, however, it was his idiom to do so. Doug knew he was on a slippery slope by trying to make a somewhat veiled political comment in an obviously politically charged thread. Granted his tact was horrid and how he said what he said was in poor taste. However, I have to agree with the overall sentiment. It's a sad time for the United States when we've become so complacent that waving a $0.10 flag and saying "Never Forget" once a year is all it takes to be considered patriotic. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy that changed our way of life dramatically. The United States' response to it was almost as abhorrent, from the pols to the general public. Many of the main conspiritors and financial backers of said conspiritors are still at large, meanwhile we've further de-stabilized an already unstable region and sunk into debt that our great-great-great grandchildren will still be mired with.
> Sorry, but it just grinds my gears watching people suddenly remember to be "patriotic" on an anniversary, but go back to turning a blind-eye and following the herd the other 364 days a year.
> ...



I demand that Paul be permanently banned for this obviously un-patriotic left wing liberal post.


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> You just don't fuck with 9/11 at any level.





Glenn said:


> Agreed.



My objections to GSS's post were due to the stories of personal loss and survival on that thread. Not a blind "don't f with 911" faux patriotism.



			
				Paul said:
			
		

> Forget" once a year is all it takes to be considered patriotic. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy that changed our way of life dramatically. The United States' response to it was almost as abhorrent, from the pols to the general public. Many of the main conspiritors and financial backers of said conspiritors are still at large, meanwhile we've further de-stabilized an already unstable region and sunk into debt that our great-great-great grandchildren will still be mired with.
> Sorry, but it just grinds my gears watching people suddenly remember to be "patriotic" on an anniversary, but go back to turning a blind-eye and following the herd the other 364 days a year.



This.

I would support a temp ban for GSS.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I would support a temp ban for GSS.



I agree!

I still fail to see what published forum rule he broke in that thread to get banned. I don't see a rule about being stupid or insentitive.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Good riddance. The guy has zero class. If you want that type of interesting, go to TGR. Good-humored flame wars, interesting skiing discussions, heated discussions, all good. Pissing matches have no place here, and that's all he was good at. +90% of what he posted was just noise, more irritating than spam.

His bitch-fests with Jerry and Phil were what started the downward spiral of negativity this summer, so far as I can tell.


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> I demand that Paul be permanently banned for this obviously un-patriotic left wing liberal post.


Hey Now .. I am a left wing liberal and I am very patriotic..:flag:


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Good riddance. The guy has zero class. If you want that type of interesting, go to TGR. Good-humored flame wars, interesting skiing discussions, heated discussions, all good. Pissing matches have no place here, and that's all he was good at. +90% of what he posted was just noise, more irritating than spam.
> 
> His bitch-fests with Jerry and Phil were what started the downward spiral of negativity this summer, so far as I can tell.


I apologize again for my roll in that activity..


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> I apologize again for my roll in that activity..


I've gotten too far into it with him too. But he's the common link between a lot of the garbage that's gone on this summer, always instigating crap just to watch the train wreck.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> Hey Now .. I am a left wing liberal and I am very patriotic..:flag:



But are you patriotic enough to defend GSS's right to say what he wants about a politically charged topic like 9/11.


----------



## gorgonzola (Sep 11, 2009)

could always do the democratic thing and let the masses decide like on pasr... http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14244&st=0


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

gorgonzola said:


> could always do the democratic thing and let the masses decide like on pasr... http://www.paskiandride.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14244&st=0



are you crazy.....a vote for letting GSS back is the same as a vote for terrorism. NEVER FORGET! :flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag::flag:


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> But are you patriotic enough to defend GSS's right to say what he wants about a politically charged topic like 9/11.


your confused about _free speech_ and being patriotic ... when I served, _free speech_ absolutely was not allowed in that organization..


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

There is no right to say whatever you want, whenever you want to ..


----------



## St. Bear (Sep 11, 2009)

People constantly think "Free Speech" means no consequences.


----------



## powhunter (Sep 11, 2009)

See ya later Jackass...oops I mean Jack***

steveo


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> There is no right to say whatever you want, whenever you want to ..


The first 10 amendments also don't control actions by private organizations. I love when people cry "Constitutional rights!" to actions taken that have absolutely no relationship to the government.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> your confused about _free speech_ and being patriotic ... when I served, _free speech_ absolutely was not allowed in that organization..



When you 'served' you had a different set of rules to live by. The military and its personal are not subject by the bill of rights, its for us civilians. Most people don't even know what 'civilian' actually means. I hate it when cops refer to people as 'civilians' like thet are not.


----------



## bobbutts (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> Either you folks want a moderated forum, or not. Sorry, but we're not going to be able to please everyone.




+1
I don't really agree with a permanent ban in this case, but agree you should moderate the way you guys collectively think is right.  I don't really see any other way to do things.


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> When you 'served' you had a different set of rules to live by. The military and its personal are not subject by the bill of rights, its for us civilians. Most people don't even know what 'civilian' actually means. I hate it when cops refer to people as 'civilians' like thet are not.


And when you post on this forum you also have a set of rules you must abide by too.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> The first 10 amendments also don't control actions by private organizations. I love when people cry "Constitutional rights!" to actions taken that have absolutely no relationship to the government.



agreed, and I am fully aware of that. I find it funny that people get on GSS's case for being un patriotic, only to support actions takes against GSS that are also un-patriotic.

Patriotism is not just a love for ones country, it also a love for the principals the country was founded on. Too many people forget that last part.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> And when you post on this forum you also have a set of rules you must abide by too.



Very true, but I am still tring to figure out exactly what rule he broke in that thread to get banned.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> When you 'served' you had a different set of rules to live by. The military and its personal are not subject by the bill of rights, its for us civilians. Most people don't even know what 'civilian' actually means. I hate it when cops refer to people as 'civilians' like thet are not.


Um, the Constitution applies to everybody in the country, military included. Not being able to speak freely while in the military is no different than not being able to cuss out your boss at work. It's a completely seperate issue than constitutionally enumerated rights.


----------



## drjeff (Sep 11, 2009)

I think that everyone needs to rememeber as Greg and DHS said, GSS didn't get banned just for today, but for a multitude of past events that had him basically on what I'd imagine is "probation".  Kind of like if someone at works screws up, they get a report in their file, and sooner or later IF they get enough reports and have received notice about it, they're going to get fired. Strong, tough work by the mods!  

That being said, I do like Geoff's idea about letting GSS back as the snowguns get turned on and the 1st TR shows up, because his passion for this sport is remarkable and videos like the jib of the couch in the hotel are very entertaining.  I'd say and extended "detention" followed by a loss of say 10,000 posts to his post count would be fair.

Lastly I think that Greg should change his signature to "You don't f*ck with 9-11"  because in my book truer words can't be spoken :flag:


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

I want Timmay banned for calling me teh librul !!1!!!on11111one!!!1!


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> agreed, and I am fully aware of that. I find it funny that people get on GSS's case for being un patriotic, only to support actions takes against GSS that are also un-patriotic.
> 
> Patriotism is not just a love for ones country, it also a love for the principals the country was founded on. Too many people forget that last part.


If you were at a wake and somebody started running their mouth off about the decreased would you not show them to the door and ask them to leave?


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> Very true, but I am still tring to figure out exactly what rule he broke in that thread to get banned.


This one?


> *Trolling:* Any message deemed a *"troll"* post made only to instigate debate or conflict will be permanently deleted. Chronic offenders of this policy will be warned one time. If the behavior continues, the member may be banned.


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

drjeff said:


> I think that everyone needs to remember as Greg and DHS said, GSS didn't get banned just for today, but for a multitude of past events that had him basically on what I'd imagine is "probation". Kind of like if someone at works screws up, they get a report in their file, and sooner or later IF they get enough reports and have received notice about it, they're going to get fired. Strong, tough work by the mods!
> 
> That being said, I do like Geoff's idea about letting GSS back as the snowguns get turned on and the 1st TR shows up, because his passion for this sport is remarkable and videos like the jib of the couch in the hotel are very entertaining. I'd say and extended "detention" followed by a loss of say 10,000 posts to his post count would be fair.
> 
> Lastly I think that Greg should change his signature to "You don't f*ck with 9-11" because in my book truer words can't be spoken :flag:


I am sure there are many persons in prison who are truly sorry but they still are going to serve their time.


----------



## OldsnowboarderME (Sep 11, 2009)

if an exception is made where will it end??


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Um, the Constitution applies to everybody in the country, military included. Not being able to speak freely while in the military is no different than not being able to cuss out your boss at work. It's a completely seperate issue than constitutionally enumerated rights.



You give up certain rights when you join the military. If you don't like your boss/employer you can quit. Do that in the Army and you go to jail.


----------



## drjeff (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> I am sure there are many persons in prison who are truly sorry but they still are going to serve their time.



Yes, but from time to time the parole board does grant clemency and early release is granted with many stipulations attached to it (somehow I feel a bit dirty after typing that sentence  )


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> Very true, but I am still tring to figure out exactly what rule he broke in that thread to get banned.



Tim - as I said before it wasn't solely this morning's comment. He has a long history and as DHS mentioned we get a lot of complaints about him. And as far as your unpatriotic angle, it wasn't necessarily what he said, it was in which thread he posted it and when. If you really want to nitpick, it was a political statement which as you know is not allowed. It can also be looked at as trolling which is also not allowed so he did break rules, and has been warned on numerous occasions.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/announcements-forum-policies/announcements.html

But you have fun riding the anti-establishment bandwagon....


----------



## Glenn (Sep 11, 2009)

Ahhh, the internet forum. It's like opening up your house, and the having everyone hang out and complain about the color of your walls. Then they'll suggest how you should decorate the place...but they're not paying for it. 

On a site this size, whoever pays that hosting/server bill every month calls the shots. If you don't like it, there are other sites to go to...or you can ever start your own. 

Furthermore, the Constitution doesn't really protect speach on a forum like this. It's kinda like if someone was in your house, called you an "asshole" and you then told them to GTFO. They couldn't call the police and say you were being "mean" and "made the wrong choice."

I honestly think the modding around here is rather lax. I've certainly crossed the political "line" before and I've yet to get a PM...or really much of a warning posted in the thread. And I can't really say I've seen heavy handed tactics employed in other threads. It is kind of funny to see the people go "ga-ga" when a thread is locked...then three other threads start up: "Why was so and so's thread locked?" 

I was part of a site that was kind of like the ATV version of AZ. I was a buddies with the owner and I got see the daily BS that went on. It becomes a thankless job once everyone starts complaining all the time. 

I guess my only advice here is that if any decision made here gets you that fired up: A) There are a lot of other ski sites out there to populate. B) With some capital and an HTML book, another forum could be started, C)Relax...it's the fawking interweb.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> You give up certain rights when you join the military. If you don't like your boss/employer you can quit. Do that in the Army and you go to jail.


And you do so by signing a contract. You can sign away rights in the civilian world as well.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> This one?



Far enough, But then again a 9/11 thread in itself is political in nature and should have been deleted from the start.


----------



## MRGisevil (Sep 11, 2009)

andyzee said:


> I'm no fan of GSS. But, in my opinion, censoring someone's opinion if you don't agree with it is a dangerous thing. There's a 100 others things that he could have been banned for, I believe this to be a mistake.



This would be one of the reasons why I gave up on this place. 

Greg, your mods are out of control. PMing people warnings because they disagree with them? Really? This isn't solely about what happened with GSS, he's just the most obvious case. The fact that it's not OK to disagree with a mod's opinion, or the 'popular' opinion, is ridiculous, and stupid. Moderators should not be *warning *people for having a difference of opinion. People should not be banned for having a *difference* of opinion. If 9/11 is such a sore and sensitive subject that a large group of people would be offended by comments made about [it], the subject shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.

It's funny, reading all this. When I went to the mods a long time ago about what I believed to be blatant sexism I was told it was "tongue in cheek" and therefore they weren't going to do anything about it. However, everything GSS says is "tongue in cheek," yet his ban was "a long time coming"? So, kindly explain to me why sexism as "tongue in cheek" is acceptable when GSS's comments as "tongue in cheek" are not. The message that that sends me as a poster is that you [moderators] only care about people's concerns when you [moderators] can personally relate to them. *Oh- and if you're all still wondering why this place is "such a sausage fest,"- there's your answer. *

I liked this place better without all the bullshit and pretense.

Later AZ.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Ahhh, the internet forum. It's like opening up your house, and the having everyone hang out and complain about the color of your walls. Then they'll suggest how you should decorate the place...but they're not paying for it.
> 
> On a site this size, whoever pays that hosting/server bill every month calls the shots. If you don't like it, there are other sites to go to...or you can ever start your own.
> 
> ...



Well said, Glenn. And thanks for the support. I've often used the analogy that a message board is very much like a bulletin board in a local grocery store. The store owner (me) and the store managers (mods) have every right to remove something tacked to the bulletin board we deem inappropriate. We could also ban a problem patron from shopping there.

Many of us were enjoying AZ well before GSS found his way here and many of us will do the same now that he's gone. He made me laugh in a lot of ways, and his passion for skiing is undeniable. Nevertheless, it's way too soon to consider a temporary ban. I do know for a fact that if we did that he would shove it in the mod's and my face at every opportunity.


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

Good job banning him on 9/11, the very day that's so sacred to you. 9/11 now is the day GSS was banned from AZ. ROFLMAO!!!!!


----------



## Beetlenut (Sep 11, 2009)

MRGisevil said:


> This would be one of the reasons why I gave up on this place.
> 
> Greg, your mods are out of control. PMing people warnings because they disagree with them? Really? This isn't solely about what happened with GSS, he's just the most obvious case. The fact that it's not OK to disagree with a mod's opinion, or the 'popular' opinion, is ridiculous, and stupid. Moderators should not be *warning *people for having a difference of opinion. People should not be banned for having a *difference* of opinion. If 9/11 is such a sore and sensitive subject that a large group of people would be offended by comments made about [it], the subject shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
+1 Miss ya Marge!


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

Not  to mention that you overshadowed the whole day here with GSS debate.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

MRGisevil said:


> Greg, your mods are out of control. PMing people warnings because they disagree with them? Really? This isn't solely about what happened with GSS, he's just the most obvious case. The fact that it's not OK to disagree with a mod's opinion, or the 'popular' opinion, is ridiculous, and stupid. Moderators should not be *warning *people for having a difference of opinion. People should not be banned for having a *difference* of opinion. If 9/11 is such a sore and sensitive subject that a large group of people would be offended by comments made about [it], the subject shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.



Please PM specific instances about when moderators took action because of a differing opinion. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm usually at least somewhat aware of incidences as they happen here and I can't recall that this has happened at all, nevermind often.

As far as the sexism thing, I didn't see that as an ongoing trend. And if I recall correctly, we got feedback from other female members who weren't as offended.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 11, 2009)

Well, I don't agree with GSS's banning for the 9/11 comment, I'm sure there are many that feel the same way as him.

I do agree with the no politics rule, another forum that I post on has a politics section and that's nice because I can ignore it.  Before I learned to ignore it I realized that it is just a group of posters some far right and some far left who just call each other names and post lies and half truths to "prove" their position.  Before they had the politics section every thread somehow ended up being a political rant, and politics still sometimes creeps into the regular threads.  Having a no politics rule like this forum works much better IMO.  That thread was politically charged to begin with.

That said I will miss GSS as I frequently found his posts funny.  I guess that is why I've been a Howard Stern fan for 25 years or so, it's the same type of humor I guess.  However it's not my forum so I'm just voicing my .02.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> Far enough, But then again a 9/11 thread in itself is political in nature and should have been deleted from the start.


How is a rememberence of the deaths of thousands of people political? I agree that people get political about it, but things like Dork's story and DHS's post aren't political at all. Being a Northeast forum, with a good number of people living or working in the NYC area, there are bound to be profound human and social impacts of that type of event. If I start a Pearl Harbor post on 12/7, should it be shutdown for being political?


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

The real question on 9/11 after 8 years......WHAT HAVE WE DONE GLOBALLY TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN???? All the flag waving in the world doesn't change the reality. That's how we honor their memories. And at this juncture it becomes political. so here's where it ends.


----------



## SkiDork (Sep 11, 2009)

Moe Ghoul said:


> The real question on 9/11 after 8 years......WHAT HAVE WE DONE GLOBALLY TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN????



That is probably one of the most difficult questions facing the world today.  Not sure if anyone really has the answer.


----------



## Puck it (Sep 11, 2009)

RIP GSS!!!!!!


I think it was in poor taste but people are people.  Sh!t happens.  I have put my foot in my mouth many times.  Bring him back.  He apologized.  Enough said.


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

Is he being banned for this one comment? That's just rediculas. I thought it was a little out of line, but I viewed it as a political comment on the stupidity of the average American. 
I'm sure that what he was thinking when he posted that too. I'ver seen many threads on this board I considered much worse. 

I'm considering my own ban of Alpinezone....


----------



## thetrailboss (Sep 11, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> Is he being banned for this one comment?



No.


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

MRGisevil said:


> This would be one of the reasons why I gave up on this place.
> 
> Greg, your mods are out of control. PMing people warnings because they disagree with them? Really? This isn't solely about what happened with GSS, he's just the most obvious case. The fact that it's not OK to disagree with a mod's opinion, or the 'popular' opinion, is ridiculous, and stupid. Moderators should not be *warning *people for having a difference of opinion. People should not be banned for having a *difference* of opinion. If 9/11 is such a sore and sensitive subject that a large group of people would be offended by comments made about [it], the subject shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.
> 
> ...



+1, well said..


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Posting PhilPug's PM, all over flame war with OSME, insulting Jerry for trying to be a better person, some other stuff that I won't bring up again...

He's been pushing the boundaries of trolling for a long time. I can take the political views, but his post today was a slap in the face to Dork, DHS, and Marc as a firefighter, along with others who haven't posted their personal connections to the attacks. And he did to watch what happened, for his own entertainment, without regard for how others would take it. I don't think it's necessarily the worst he's done, but I can see it being the final straw.


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> He's been pushing the boundaries of trolling for a long time. I can take the political views, but his post today was a slap in the face to Dork, DHS, and Marc as a firefighter, along with others who haven't posted their personal connections to the attacks. And he did to watch what happened, for his own entertainment, without regard for how others would take it. I don't think it's necessarily the worst he's done, but I can see it being the final straw.



I'm sorry but I just don't see it that way at all. To me he made a fast political comment without thinking too much about it. I don't think he insulted anyone.  Yes, it would have been better placed elsewhere but give me a break..

It was typical of his posts, quick wry replies.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Posting PhilPug's PM, all over flame war with OSME, insulting Jerry for trying to be a better person, some other stuff that I won't bring up again...
> 
> He's been pushing the boundaries of trolling for a long time. I can take the political views, but his post today was a slap in the face to Dork, DHS, and Marc as a firefighter, along with others who haven't posted their personal connections to the attacks. And he did to watch what happened, for his own entertainment, without regard for how others would take it. I don't think it's necessarily the worst he's done, but I can see it being the final straw.



So you're saying that if you don't support the war in Iraq then that's a slap in the face of firefighters?  I'm a pilot, I saw the smoke from the tower from the air, it affected my life and my livelihood directly and I didn't take his comment as a slap in the face.  I saw it as a quick statement of what he felt about the war in Iraq, it wasn't in support of terrorists.  I didn't think of it as trolling.  He can't help it if his governor is slow to react.


----------



## severine (Sep 11, 2009)

iwon't said:


> if an exception is made where will it end??


Funny you should say that... not to play devil's advocate but that was one thing we were discussing in the American Revolution this week. Not only Parliament's views that if they backed down on the Stamp Act, where would it end with us unruly Americans...but also in the Americans allowing this tax to go through without standing up and letting it be known that they were not going to tolerate it. Give an inch...they take a yard.



mondeo said:


> How is a rememberence of the deaths of thousands of people political? I agree that people get political about it, but things like Dork's story and DHS's post aren't political at all. Being a Northeast forum, with a good number of people living or working in the NYC area, there are bound to be profound human and social impacts of that type of event. If I start a Pearl Harbor post on 12/7, should it be shutdown for being political?


Completely agree. Political would be bashing/promoting particular politicians or parties, their direct actions/statements, etc. Remembering the deaths and the sacrifices made... not political.



mlctvt said:


> Is he being banned for this one comment? That's just rediculas. I thought it was a little out of line, but I viewed it as a political comment on the stupidity of the average American.
> I'm sure that what he was thinking when he posted that too. I'ver seen many threads on this board I considered much worse.
> 
> I'm considering my own ban of Alpinezone....





mlctvt said:


> I'm sorry but I just don't see it that way at all. To me he made a fast political comment without thinking too much about it. I don't think he insulted anyone.  Yes, it would have been better placed elsewhere but give me a break..
> 
> It was typical of his posts, quick wry replies.


There is an accumulation of events over the last couple of years, not all of which you may have seen due to some moderation of threads where these occurred. It was not a one strike and you're out... more like 200 strikes...


----------



## ccskier (Sep 11, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> Is he being banned for this one comment? That's just rediculas. I thought it was a little out of line, but I viewed it as a political comment on the stupidity of the average American.
> I'm sure that what he was thinking when he posted that too. I'ver seen many threads on this board I considered much worse.
> 
> I'm considering my own ban of Alpinezone....



Same here.  Just seems like the same old bitching and moaning, etc...  It must be a Doug thing.  GSS and DMC brough views/humor (maybe tasteles,, etc..) to the table, this place will be boring with out them.  I actually looked forward to GSS comments, vlogs, etc... part of the reason I come on here is to see what he has to say next.  I barely contribute in fear of being rediculed for posting a belief or a trip report, etc...  Not pointing fingers, etc... but I have noticed the "mod" power trip also and it is too bad.  Oh well, just the internet.


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

This thread now exceeds the 9/11 memorial thread. Congrats.


----------



## severine (Sep 11, 2009)

Dude, if the mods here were power hungry, he would have been banned over a year ago.... Think about it. He has been given more than enough opportunities to hang himself, and has over and over and over again.


----------



## marcski (Sep 11, 2009)

*Trolling:* Any message deemed a *"troll"* post made only to instigate debate or conflict will be permanently deleted. Chronic offenders of this policy will be warned one time. If the behavior continues, the member may be banned.


Isn't instigating debate or conflict the entire point of an internet forum?

Perhaps the only reason GSS had more complaints than other posters is because he posts so often? 

I do think the mods on this site take their "jobs" too seriously....seems even more so lately.  

Plus...a defense to defamation is that the original statement was true.   In this regard.......what did the war in Iraq have.... well I better not go there for fear of retribution.


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

ccskier said:


> Same here.  Just seems like the same old bitching and moaning, etc...  It must be a Doug thing.  GSS and DMC brough views/humor (maybe tasteles,, etc..) to the table, this place will be boring with out them.  I actually looked forward to GSS comments, vlogs, etc... part of the reason I come on here is to see what he has to say next.  I barely contribute in fear of being rediculed for posting a belief or a trip report, etc...  Not pointing fingers, etc... but I have noticed the "mod" power trip also and it is too bad.  Oh well, just the internet.



Bingo, me too. I guess I'm caching up with my normal little to no posting because I'm so pissed. Depending on how this plays out in the next day or so, I'll either stay or never visit this forum again.


----------



## Beetlenut (Sep 11, 2009)

ccskier said:


> .... I actually looked forward to GSS comments, vlogs, etc... part of the reason I come on here is to see what he has to say next...


 
Please tell me you're joking? :roll:


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

ERJ-145CA said:


> So you're saying that if you don't support the war in Iraq then that's a slap in the face of firefighters? I'm a pilot, I saw the smoke from the tower from the air, it affected my life and my livelihood directly and I didn't take his comment as a slap in the face. I saw it as a quick statement of what he felt about the war in Iraq, it wasn't in support of terrorists. I didn't think of it as trolling. He can't help it if his governor is slow to react.


How would you take this:

"My wife was murdered 8 years ago today."

"Well aren't you glad the idiot jerks convicted the wrong guy and put him to death?"

That's sorta how I read it. It was just a flat out inappropriate place to make the comment, the thread was pretty pure in purpose up to that point. Others making opposite-leaning comments in the thread I would've seen as equally inappropriate.

There are other members (myself included) that get much more political than GSS ever did, on both sides of the fence. If the mods were that quick to ban on political grounds for statements they in that vein, DMC wouldn't have gotten a chance for self-banishment, he would've been gone before I had even joined. Probably 10% of the people on the board would be gone for politics before GSS, even if you assume only half of the people posting that level of politics would actually be banished (i.e., assume only those Greg disagrees with get booted.)


----------



## AtomicSkier (Sep 11, 2009)

As someone who has had the pleasure of banning GSS on more then one occasion as well as skiing over 200 days with him in the past 4 years, he is 99.9% harmless.  I think you're doing this site a disservice by permanently removing him.  His passion for skiing is undeniable, and he really likes posting on AZ.  I can't tell you how many times he's said to me "make sure you post that on AZ as well".  For those of you that have skied with him can attest (well, besides mondeo maybe, he's got something against GSS apparently) that is is genuinely a nice guy, and will make you laugh constantly.  I haven't seen his 9/11 comments, but I can only imagine.  When he says something stupid on PASR, we just delete it.  Why ban people?  Isn't it just easier to delete 1% of his posts and enjoy the other 99%?  I hope the administrators here do consider letting him back once the season starts back up.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

marcski said:


> Isn't instigating debate or conflict the entire point of an internet forum?


Debate, yes. Conflict, no. Well, not all.


----------



## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 11, 2009)

I just finished reading the threads involved. I've never been a GSS fan. I never thought he posted much worth reading. I thought that pretty much everything he posted was an attempt to bring attention to himself. 

I think he intentionally made a statement that he knew would be considered in bad taste just to get negative attention aimed at himself, to change the thread and make it about him. I believe he didn’t realize how far over the line he was stepping. When everyone came down on him hard he tried to pull back with an apology. 

I won’t miss him, but IMO he shouldn’t have been banned. 

BTW-these threads are his wet dream, he's loving reading what people think about him. 

It's also been mentioned in these threads that the mods are over-moderating lately and I have to say I agree.


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 11, 2009)

severine said:


> Dude, if the mods here were power hungry, he would have been banned over a year ago.... Think about it. He has been given more than enough opportunities to hang himself, and has over and over and over again.



He also has driven a lot of traffic to AZ. He makes the place look busy. A lot of the PASKiers are here because of GSS. That's whats kept him safe and will likely bring him back after everyone cools off.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> I whole hartedly disagree with this. IMO his comments were not Worth getting banned, you guys were just looking for an excuse to ban him. This site is already boring enough latly, this decision will make it even more so.
> 
> I wonder how long it will take for me to get a warning for disagreeing with the mods?



+1.  I thought they where class asshole remarks.  But for christs sake.  He expressed an ahole opinion.  He didn't put it out there as fact, or call anyone an idiot.  Even better, when people CALLED him out as an ahole after the fact, he didn't defend it, he took it.

You guys may have you reasonings for the ban which we don't know.  But why aholes who are allowed to repeatedly call OTHER people aholes never seeming to 'cross the line' even when they call a moderator an idiot..

Unban him and set his post count to like 1 or something.  Cripes.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

AtomicSkier said:


> For those of you that have skied with him can attest (well, besides mondeo maybe, he's got something against GSS apparently) that is is genuinely a nice guy, and will make you laugh constantly.


I actually didn't really have a problem with him until this summer, other than the stoner act that annoys me in general but will deal with. I actually defended him on the hill last year on more than one occasion, on those very grounds. But for whatever reason, the board on the whole has had a very angry mood this summer, and it seems to have affected GSS more than others. A lot more picking fights instead of being stupid, and his rate of completely insensitive comments went up quite a bit. The village idiot act I can deal with, flat out being a world class jerk just for your own entertainment is different.


----------



## Dr Skimeister (Sep 11, 2009)

My opinion, nothing more....

Banned for chronic immaturity and it's accompanying insensitivity. 

As much as I have the right to think that the GSS persona is a jerk and to either read or not read what he posts on an internet forum, he has the right to comment on an *open* forum as he sees fit as long as no irreparable harm is done by his comments.


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Maybe Greg should just shut the forums down for a couple weeks, let everyone and the weather cool off some.


----------



## marcski (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Debate, yes. Conflict, no. Well, not all.



I'm not so sure.....They seem pretty similar to me...at least in the context of an internet forum:

From Merriam Webster:
Debate*:* a contention by words or arguments: as *a* *:* the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure *b* *:* a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides 

Conflict:
*1* *:* fight, battle, war <an armed _conflict_>
*2 a* *:* competitive or opposing action of incompatibles *:* antagonistic state or action (as of divergent ideas, interests, or persons) *b* *:* mental struggle resulting from incompatible or opposing needs, drives, wishes, or external or internal demands
*3* *:* the opposition of persons or forces that gives rise to the dramatic action in a drama or fiction


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Maybe Greg should just shut the forums down for a couple weeks, let everyone and the weather cool off some.



Yeah, FULL BLOWN CENSORSHIP. Why not close the forum for good? That'll solve all the problems. Step up to the challenge, bite the lip and this too fades away. It always does.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Posting PhilPug's PM, all over flame war with OSME, insulting Jerry for trying to be a better person, some other stuff that I won't bring up again...
> 
> He's been pushing the boundaries of trolling for a long time. I can take the political views, but his post today was a slap in the face to Dork, DHS, and Marc as a firefighter, along with others who haven't posted their personal connections to the attacks. And he did to watch what happened, for his own entertainment, without regard for how others would take it. I don't think it's necessarily the worst he's done, but I can see it being the final straw.



Fine, people who push boundaries get banned.  But people who regularly push the issue WAY beyond the line don't get banned.  Yet that jackass HighwayStar still waits in the wings, slowly regaining old momentum to calling everyone else an idiot.

I personally read his post as being sarcastic.  And I'll restate it..

Mr Bush: "We need to get those damned terrorists!"

*years later*

Everyone with rolled eyes: "Thank god we got all them damned iraqi terrorsts"


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 11, 2009)

Dr Skimeister said:


> My opinion, nothing more....
> 
> Banned for chronic immaturity and it's accompanying insensitivity.
> 
> As much as I have the right to think that the GSS persona is a jerk and to either read or not read what he posts on an internet forum, he has the right to comment on an *open* forum as he sees fit as long as no irreparable harm is done by his comments.



+1


----------



## eastcoastpowderhound (Sep 11, 2009)

This whole debacle echos a report I heard on NPR this morning...about how kids will act out on the first day of school to get noticed and get attention...and the other kids will either be drawn to them or not.  There's a clear group of people who are drawn to GSS and his antics and another group, mods included, who obviously are not.  Sure he pushes the boundaries and crosses the line from time to time...but so do many others on here, and if no one is crossing the line or bumping into it, the rest of the flock doesn't know where the line really is.  If a group of skiers weren't ducking the ropes at Jackson Hole they probably wouldn't have an open boundary policy now.  Sure, he's a pain in the ass at times...but we've all got the ability to ignore...or we can react to provocations...its our choice.  Some of us have probably ignored this whole thread.  Was he crass and classless...yes, but Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, George Carlin, and Carlos Mencia are all pretty crass and have stepped over the line...but they make us laugh.  GSS was the class clown on the AZ...we wasn't a downright mean spirited a-hole like Snowman...he's just the court jester.  The court jester is always saying something inappropriate at the wrong time...its what they do.  Some of us were friends with the class clown in high school, while some of us thought he was a jerk..and the rest fell somewhere in the middle...looks like not much has changed.  Only difference is, in high school the class clown usually didn't get expelled...they tended to save that for the kids who were violent.  This place will be less entertaining without him...and what are most of us on here for if it isn't a little entertainment in our daily grind and our shared passion for skiing.  

Give him a cooling off period and then let him come back.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Sep 11, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> This affects my life in so few ways that I don't even need any fingers to count.


:lol: Nice!


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 11, 2009)

mondeo said:


> How would you take this:
> 
> "My wife was murdered 8 years ago today."
> 
> ...



Have you never said something and then realized that it was insensitive or an inappropriate time to say it?  I have and I'm glad most people are willing to forgive.  At least he didn't just edit his post and pretend it didn't happen, instead he admitted he was an a-hole.


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 11, 2009)

Moe Ghoul said:


> Yeah, FULL BLOWN CENSORSHIP. Why not close the forum for good? That'll solve all the problems. Step up to the challenge, bite the lip and this too fades away. It always does.


Agreed.  Far less attention would be drawn from deleting a few posts and a PM warning that a line was crossed.  In a day, nobody would even remember about the deleted posting.


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

AtomicSkier said:


> As someone who has had the pleasure of banning GSS on more then one occasion as well as skiing over 200 days with him in the past 4 years, he is 99.9% harmless.  I think you're doing this site a disservice by permanently removing him.  His passion for skiing is undeniable, and he really likes posting on AZ.  I can't tell you how many times he's said to me "make sure you post that on AZ as well".  For those of you that have skied with him can attest (well, besides mondeo maybe, he's got something against GSS apparently) that is is genuinely a nice guy, and will make you laugh constantly.  I haven't seen his 9/11 comments, but I can only imagine.  When he says something stupid on PASR, we just delete it.  Why ban people?  Isn't it just easier to delete 1% of his posts and enjoy the other 99%?  I hope the administrators here do consider letting him back once the season starts back up.



I had the pleasure of skiing with GSS and you too Atomic Jeff, back on opening day 2007/2008 at Mount Snow. You were both stand up nice guys and excellent skiers too. To tell you the truth due to his posts on this forum, I didn't expect GSS to be so tame in person. He was reserved and actually extremely polite and just an overall fun person that I had the pleasure of spending 1/2 day skiing with. 
He adds so much to this forum and makes me laugh almost every day. I really can't see myself visiting the forum without GSS. 

Hey, let's vote on it. Who wants GSS back???


----------



## mondeo (Sep 11, 2009)

ERJ-145CA said:


> Have you never said something and then realized that it was insensitive or an inappropriate time to say it? I have and I'm glad most people are willing to forgive. At least he didn't just edit his post and pretend it didn't happen, instead he admitted he was and a-hole.


Difference is GSS did it all the time. This whole thing is a repeat of several past occurances. That's not a mistake, that's just an inconsiderate person. At least that's my take on the matter, I may be wrong.

I'm just honestly surprised at all the people calling censorship on this; there have been several times in the past where I wondered how he wasn't banned yet.

He did post something true yesterday, though: I do enjoy arguing for the sake of argument. I even had resolved to be at least a partial follower of iwontism, and try to let my grudge with him (and others) go. Unfortunately this incident has reeled me back in. So with that, I'll take up Moe's challenge and drop out of this debate.

Peace out! I'll see you over in the skiing forum, where HS has challenged me to a ski-off! :razz:


----------



## o3jeff (Sep 11, 2009)

AtomicSkier said:


> When he says something stupid on PASR, we just delete it.



That would of been the easiest thing to do and move on, but within 2 hours you had 3 mods quote it instead.


----------



## snoseek (Sep 11, 2009)

Wow! busy day over here it seems!

To all that bitch and complain about GSS's previous annoying and contravarsial I say you could have put him on ignore. I mean really, I suspect almost noone here used that feature but instead just whined to the mods about his actions. I agree what he said was way out of place and incredibly immature as with all the other post in the past but a ban that seems kind of harsh. Let the induvidual posters decide whether they want to hear his narcissistic views. I swear even all the haters will silently miss him-if not why didn't you just ignore him before?

No doubt he spends too much time on the net-maybe this will free up some time.


----------



## marcski (Sep 11, 2009)

This is like the Magic Threads on Snowjournal last year.


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> I had the pleasure of skiing with GSS and you too Atomic Jeff, back on opening day 2007/2008 at Mount Snow. You were both stand up nice guys and excellent skiers too. To tell you the truth due to his posts on this forum, I didn't expect GSS to be so tame in person.* He was reserved and actually extremely polite and just an overall fun person that I had the pleasure of spending 1/2 day skiing with. *
> He adds so much to this forum and makes me laugh almost every day. I really can't see myself visiting the forum without GSS.
> 
> Hey, let's vote on it. Who wants GSS back???



That's because he's perpetually baked out of his mind. Not that there's anything wrong with that................


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

Moe Ghoul said:


> That's because he's perpetually baked out of his mind. Not that there's anything wrong with that................



He wasn't stoned when I saw him. He didn't even remotely remind me of a stoner at all. That's just an act of his, probably to get you fired up. 

He seemed more quiet and reserved than most guys his age.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> He wasn't stoned when I saw him. He didn't even remotely remind me of a stoner at all. That's just an act of his, probably to get you fired up.
> 
> He seemed more quiet and reserved than most guys his age.



Yea, and of course, they should be banned for callously labeling him a pothead with no regard for others feelings..


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 11, 2009)

I gave up trying to profile people I never met when I read interwebz posts. How people express themselves in a face to face can be dramatically different from the person sitting alone, in relative security, typing thoughts generated from an inner voice online. Much like a daily journal, diary, poetry for some people, etc. That's a risk we all take communicating with this media, and there are plenty of times when I type out a post, think about it, and hit the delete button. Suffice it to say, there are a lot of different motivations for posting on boards like these

That being said, I've skied with GSS on a few occasions in PA, and he is harmless and imperfect but is passionate about skiing and revels in the camaraderie it inspires. And his weed is usually pretty decent.


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> I'm not opposed to temporary bans but when we proposed it, it was met with a fair amount of opposition. Less than 50% of the members supported it, and usually I won't make a policy change unless a clear majority supports it. We'll likely revisit the idea at some point.


I have read a lot of this thread but my eyes are too tired to read the last 4 pages, but I'll say, from my moderating experience


The community as a whole rarely knows the real offensive parts of a banned person's issues, because a good mod team deletes quietly and moderates behind the scenes dealing with the situation privately, therefore, we really have no idea what all the individual offensive (s) were in the pile by the time this happened.

Time outs are rarely successful.  Once you put someone on time out they've already crossed lines that get their dander up.  The time out only escalates the attitude and banning tends to quickly follow.

Infractions can work but even they tend to be fuel to the fire of a flame prone troll.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who take on the thankless task of moderating and trust that this decision was for the betterment of this community.


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Agreed.  Far less attention would be drawn from deleting a few posts and a PM warning that a line was crossed.  In a day, nobody would even remember about the deleted posting.



This is something we've done countless number of times. How many times are we supposed to say "final warning". Again, folks want consistency yet many others claim we're overmoderating. The truth is we've basically been hands-off during the GSS era. The board is now being moderated at the same level it was pre-GSS.



mlctvt said:


> Hey, let's vote on it. Who wants GSS back???



We've never unbanned. The time-out approach wasn't met with overwhelming enthusiasm. Neither was reputation. Nevertheless, you never know. As much as a poll would be feeding into his desire to get attention, I'm not 100% opposed to it. It's not going to happen today or tomorrow though, believe that.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

Greg said:


> This is something we've done countless number of times. How many times are we supposed to say "final warning". Again, folks want consistency yet many others claim we're overmoderating. The truth is we've basically been hands-off during the GSS era. The board is now being moderated at the same level it was pre-GSS.
> 
> We've never unbanned. The time-out approach wasn't met with overwhelming enthusiasm. Neither was reputation. Nevertheless, you never know. As much as a poll would be feeding into his desire to get attention, I'm not 100% opposed to it. It's not going to happen today or tomorrow though, believe that.



You're putting him on the same level as Snowman, and this just isn't the case.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 11, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> [*]The community as a whole rarely knows the real offensive parts of a banned person's issues, because a good mod team deletes quietly and moderates behind the scenes dealing with the situation privately, therefore, we really have no idea what all the individual offensive (s) were in the pile by the time this happened.



This is the most important thing for people to understand.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> This is the most important thing for people to understand.



But we don't.  What we see right now, is an equally knee jerk reaction to someone poking fun at a political conversation.


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 11, 2009)

Moe Ghoul said:


> I gave up trying to profile people I never met when I read interwebz posts. How people express themselves in a face to face can be dramatically different from the person sitting alone, in relative security, typing thoughts generated from an inner voice online. Much like a daily journal, diary, poetry for some people, etc. That's a risk we all take communicating with this media, and there are plenty of times when I type out a post, think about it, and hit the delete button. Suffice it to say, there are a lot of different motivations for posting on boards like these
> 
> That being said, I've skied with GSS on a few occasions in PA, and he is harmless and imperfect but is passionate about skiing and revels in the camaraderie it inspires. And his weed is usually pretty decent.


Often, I'll walk away from the computer for a few minutes before posting something, and decide it wasn't worth it.  MoeG, I profiled you to the letter.  Puff-puff.  See you at Blue in a little over 2 months.  I got 1st round  (I'm only kidding on the profiling btw)



Greg said:


> This is something we've done countless number of times. How many times are we supposed to say "final warning". Again, folks want consistency yet many others claim we're overmoderating. The truth is we've basically been hands-off during the GSS era. The board is now being moderated at the same level it was pre-GSS.



I hear you.  However, does it need a "Final Warning" label?  How about "Dude, your post/thread was deleted cause your shit crossed the line again....and no, you can't complain about it either" PM.  It sucks being the boss sometimes.  I don't envy the responsibilities of running a message board.  I like coming here, reading the trip reports, sharing a laugh or two, and learning new things about the sport I love.  I'll continue to do so &  I look forward to meeting up with some AZ'rs this upcoming season.

I've skied maybe 10-15 days with GSS last season and I'll concur on the sentiments that he's completely harmless but he does lacks an internal filter.  Oh yeah, being perpetually baked half the time probably doesn't bode well for  what remains of his internal filter either.:blink:.  He's a funny guy and I'll ski with him again.  It's seems there's a fair amount of members who want to see him go, and stay.  Perhaps you could entertain offering it up to a vote as the season approaches.  

Out of curiosity, how many people have actually been banned?


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 11, 2009)

tcharron said:


> But we don't.  What we see right now, is an equally knee jerk reaction to someone poking fun at a political conversation.



I can assure you it was not.  It may appear that way, but this is completely not the case.

I can also assure you that GSS's 'record' is not going to be made public; mainly to protect the privacy of those who have complained of which there are many.  

Banning GSS was something that the moderators tried very hard to avoid for a very long time prior to my involvement.  Pretty much from the very beginning.  The warnings were countless and he chose to ignore them.  He has himself to blame.

Beyond that, I'm not going to defend my part of the decision further.  Moving on......


----------



## severine (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm going to try to put this as clearly as possible but I have 2 kids who won't stay in bed and are causing a raucous, so forgive me.

a) This is not your board, my board, GSS's board. This is Greg's board with the rules he put forth when you joined. If you don't like the rules, don't participate. Same as any other formal group, there are certain rules everyone is to follow. You don't play by them, you're gone. This is no different.

b) The bulk of the people here do not know the whole story. Neither do I. But there was a lot more going on than a few stupid comments. As I said before, if the moderators here were being even a small % as harsh as they're being accused, he would have been banned well over a year ago. 

c) Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Just because something doesn't offend you doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's peachy-keen. Just because you don't like the way someone does their volunteer-basis moderating job doesn't mean they're wrong. Don't like it? There's the door.... I prefer it to anarchy. Want anarchy? Go to TGR...

d) If y'all are so in love with GSS, why not put in the pot and start a board for him? You guys wanted him to be a mod... now's your chance. Put your money where your mouth is. But this is Alpine Zone, not GSS-zone. Don't ever expect it to become that or to revolve around any one member. Aside from Greg, we're all replaceable here. No board revolves around just one person, nor should it. Those who expect the board to fail without him, you'll be proven wrong. You probably won't be here to see, but that's okay, too. Those who expect it to be a million times better will be wrong, too. There is no better/worse. Just different. It's just one person. There will be others. That's life.

I think I've said my piece. I want it clear that even though I am married to a mod I have no special privileges here. I'm a member just like anyone else. I don't have private knowledge, I don't get to see what's going on with the mods, I don't have any pull. I know there are misconceptions out there--GSS himself sent me a message asking me to have Greg un-ban him. That was all the message said. No apology, no remorse, nothing. Just "Hi Carrie...tell Greg to unban me!!!!". 

Give an inch....


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Out of curiosity, how many people have actually been banned?



Impossible to know for sure since that group contains spammer and bots, aliases, etc. If I had to guess, probably less than 10 actual members. beswift, RossiSkier, snowman, and now GSS are the most notorious.


----------



## andyzee (Sep 11, 2009)

I say the commie bastid should have been thrown out a long time ago!


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

severine said:


> *Aside from Greg*, we're all replaceable here.



That's debatable... :lol:



severine said:


> No board revolves around just one person, nor should it. Those who expect the board to fail without him, you'll be proven wrong. You probably won't be here to see, but that's okay, too. Those who expect it to be a million times better will be wrong, too. There is no better/worse. Just different. It's just one person. There will be others. That's life.



Well said. This forum/community has gone through a lot of changes over the years. This is just another one. GSS has only been a member here for a bit over two years. There's 6+ years of history before that.


----------



## mlctvt (Sep 11, 2009)

severine said:


> I'm going to try to put this as clearly as possible but I have 2 kids who won't stay in bed and are causing a raucous, so forgive me.
> 
> a) This is not your board, my board, GSS's board. This is Greg's board with the rules he put forth when you joined. If you don't like the rules, don't participate. Same as any other formal group, there are certain rules everyone is to follow. You don't play by them, you're gone. This is no different.
> 
> ...





Time to moderate the wife...


----------



## o3jeff (Sep 11, 2009)

I find it hard to believe grown people are pm'ing mods to complain about people, it's the effing internet:-D


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> I find it hard to believe grown people are pm'ing mods to complain about people, it's the effing internet:-D



I <3 u man!


----------



## marcski (Sep 11, 2009)

severine said:


> Aside from Greg, we're all replaceable here.



Since AZ  was/is for sale, I'd say Greg himself believes he is replaceable.


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

Paul said:


> I <3 u man!



No I <3 u man


----------



## Greg (Sep 11, 2009)

marcski said:


> Since AZ  was/is for sale, I'd say Greg himself believes he is replaceable.



Let's call it "was". For now.


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> No I <3 u man



hold me


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

Paul said:


> hold me



I though you'd never ask


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> I though you'd never ask



HEY!

Who just grabbed my ass!??!?!?!


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 11, 2009)

tcharron said:


> HEY!
> 
> Who just grabbed my ass!??!?!?!



Hey bud, I am going to need to see a pic before you can join our bro-mance. I have certain standards to maintain.


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 11, 2009)

GSS would approve.


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> GSS would approve.



*sniff


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 11, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> GSS would approve.


Can I get a "This thread delivers!  Mad steezy yo"? :lol:


----------



## ccskier (Sep 11, 2009)

As greg said was sor sale, call up a compay like internet brands and try to sell it to them and watch the whole site implode.  The whole thing is stupid, live and let live or post ad let post.  As I said, and have already been questioned about, he was a funny guy and once again people can't look past comments.  Then when cosidering a sale, delete the number of message counts he has accounted for or the number that are accounted for him for the statistics he has brought forth when the sale happens.  Like with anything, certain things sell a product etc....  Look at the crap that goes on tv, etc....  IE idol hiring ellen, she can sell gss's numbers also help sell.  Waahhhh, another adult said something offensive, I don't say I agree nor disagree with his comment, wrong place wrong time sure, but so be it.  As snoseek said, if you don't like it, block it.


----------



## severine (Sep 11, 2009)

What about the people who have been personally attacked? They can block unprovoked attacks before they occur?

There have been several...




Whatever. It's done, it's over, move on.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Can I get a "This thread delivers!  Mad steezy yo"? :lol:



I dunno, general consensus seems to be..

"We don't want cher type around heaa, boy.."


----------



## marcski (Sep 11, 2009)

This entire debacle reminds me of what  a few buddies of mine used to say back in grad school:

Everyone, or at least a lot of people on here, need to "Toughen up"!   

Take things, especially on the internet with a grain of salt.  Life is too short and too important to care so much about one person says or writes...especially if you don't agree with him/her.


----------



## ccskier (Sep 11, 2009)

Marcski may favorite was don't sweat the small stuff.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Sep 11, 2009)

marcski said:


> This entire debacle reminds me of what  a few buddies of mine used to say back in grad school:
> 
> Everyone, or at least a lot of people on here, need to "Toughen up"!
> 
> Take things, especially on the internet with a grain of salt.  Life is too short and too important to care so much about one person says or writes...especially if you don't agree with him/her.


But as mods we have a job to do..


----------



## tcharron (Sep 11, 2009)

ALLSKIING said:


> But as mods we have a job to do..



So in your opinion, what is that job?

I'd personally find it to immediately ban direct attack asshats, such as HS, or even snoman.  HS is still here, and it took months for HS to get banned.


----------



## Paul (Sep 11, 2009)

AZ needs a new hero:


----------



## ski220 (Sep 11, 2009)

I personally felt much more disrespect and offense at tcharron's post,which was a point thought out, than GSS's insensitive off-hand comment.  

9-11-09   the demise of couch skiing on AZ.   

And to think he almost quit 2 years ago when I criticized him for not hiking the headwall at Jackson.


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 12, 2009)

I wasn't in the office yesterday so I'm playing catchup, so to speak. All I will say is this, that on such a day of remebrance, sorrow and forgiveness NOBODY recognized the FACT that GSS appologized in the 9/11 thread.

Banning him was, IMHO, wrong.


----------



## drjeff (Sep 12, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I wasn't in the office yesterday so I'm playing catchup, so to speak. All I will say is this, that on such a day of remebrance, sorrow and forgiveness NOBODY recognized the FACT that GSS appologized in the 9/11 thread.
> 
> Banning him was, IMHO, wrong.




I'm guessing that the apology WOULDN'T have happened if there wasn't some likely back channel PM's between him + the mods.


----------



## andrec10 (Sep 12, 2009)

I for one am glad to see him go. On numerous occasions, he has made comments to posts I have made and I had to bite my tongue. After watching his video, I say..Grow up!!! Your'e 30 years old and act like a teenager. Its no wonder he has no girlfriend for most of the time!


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 12, 2009)

drjeff said:


> I'm guessing that the apology WOULDN'T have happened if there wasn't some likely back channel PM's between him + the mods.



Could be Doc, dunno, but either way the kid manned up and made an appology. Again, really doesn't get my dander up either way it's just too bad cause the dude really likes to ski and post on this board.


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 12, 2009)

andrec10 said:


> I for one am glad to see him go. On numerous occasions, he has made comments to posts I have made and I had to bite my tongue. After watching his video, I say..Grow up!!! Your'e 30 years old and act like a teenager. Its no wonder he has no girlfriend for most of the time!



Nice, way to kick a guy in the balls after he's gone. Wussy---just sayin'


----------



## drjeff (Sep 12, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Could be Doc, dunno, but either way the kid manned up and made an appology. Again, really doesn't get my dander up either way it's just too bad cause the dude really likes to ski and post on this board.



Camp the only reason I say that is if you reread his posts right up until the apology, after the mods, amongst others had gotten involved in the thread, he had a few more what could be deemed as "in poor taste" comments, before the final apology and the banning.  Had he almost immediately shot off the apology I'd be much more likely to take it as being of his own doing.

I will most definately miss the extreme passion for the sport that was clear via his posts (not to mention a bunch of his other stories here), but as has been said, the banning wasn't just because of yesterday, but a series of incidents over the years, and yesterdays was just the last "incident report" that was filed in his "employee record" and the bosses looking at the cumulative total of his "employee record" made the call that warnings/probabtion just wasn't an option anymore.  And as someone who has had to make that very tough decision about folks before, I respect what the adims did.


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 12, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Camp the only reason I say that is if you reread his posts right up until the apology, after the mods, amongst others had gotten involved in the thread, he had a few more what could be deemed as "in poor taste" comments, before the final apology and the banning.  Had he almost immediately shot off the apology I'd be much more likely to take it as being of his own doing.
> 
> I will most definately miss the extreme passion for the sport that was clear via his posts (not to mention a bunch of his other stories here), but as has been said, the banning wasn't just because of yesterday, but a series of incidents over the years, and yesterdays was just the last "incident report" that was filed in his "employee record" and the bosses looking at the cumulative total of his "employee record" made the call that warnings/probabtion just wasn't an option anymore.  And as someone who has had to make that very tough decision about folks before, I respect what the adims did.



I went back and re-read, still feel emotions got the best of the mods on this one which ended up w/ GSS being booted. If you look back at that thread you'll see mods all jumping on the wagon kickin the shit out of the kid publicly. I think what may have promted the appology was the fact that his office manager told him that his comments were in bad taste. Who knows, obviously not me.


----------



## Paul (Sep 12, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Nice, way to kick a guy in the balls after he's gone. Wussy---just sayin'



I'm getting more of a kick out of some of the backlash than the posts (or poster) that caused it. I'm especially enjoying all the oxymoronic posts that are coming out of the woodwork.

"That guy is immature and needs to grow-up and not make personal insults. What a <Insert immature, personal insult here>"


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 12, 2009)

paul said:


> i'm getting more of a kick out of some of the backlash than the posts (or poster) that caused it. I'm especially enjoying all the oxymoronic posts that are coming out of the woodwork.
> 
> "that guy is immature and needs to grow-up and not make personal insults. What a <insert immature, personal insult here>"



lol


----------



## thorski (Sep 12, 2009)

Children


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 12, 2009)

andrec10 said:


> I for one am glad to see him go. On numerous occasions, he has made comments to posts I have made and I had to bite my tongue. After watching his video, I say..*Grow up!!! Your'e 30 years old and act like a teenager.* Its no wonder he has no girlfriend for most of the time!



IMO if you act old you get old though, so better to act younger.


----------



## skidbump (Sep 12, 2009)

You guys realize without him and the sale posts ,this place is pretty dead/pretty boring


----------



## snoseek (Sep 12, 2009)

andrec10 said:


> I for one am glad to see him go. On numerous occasions, he has made comments to posts I have made and I had to bite my tongue. After watching his video, I say..Grow up!!! Your'e 30 years old and act like a teenager. Its no wonder he has no girlfriend for most of the time!



You do know there is an ignore feature right?

All of you haters love the drama and you know it.


----------



## tarponhead (Sep 12, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I went back and re-read, still feel emotions got the best of the mods on this one which ended up w/ GSS being booted. If you look back at that thread you'll see mods all jumping on the wagon kickin the shit out of the kid publicly. I think what may have promted the appology was the fact that his office manager told him that his comments were in bad taste. Who knows, obviously not me.



+10000 !!!! (all by me of course....)


----------



## awf170 (Sep 12, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> I find it hard to believe grown people are pm'ing mods to complain about people, it's the effing internet:-D



Yep, they really need to harden the f*ck up.


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 13, 2009)

If you miss him that much...........
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/85842/new-to-this-site


----------



## BigJay (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm not going to read the whole 17 pages of comments... but knowing the whole team behind AZ agreed on this, i won't drop a tear and hope for more constructive posts...

Bring on the snow season, we're ready!


----------



## Warp Daddy (Sep 13, 2009)

OK  --does eveerybody feel better now after 17 pages of emotional meltdown ---------Let's move on !

 In the larger order of life----------------- this don't mean Sheeeeeit !   WGARA


----------



## skidmarks (Sep 13, 2009)

snoseek said:


> You do know there is an ignore feature right?
> 
> All of you haters love the drama and you know it.



+1


----------



## Paul (Sep 13, 2009)

skidmarks said:


> +1



+eleventy


----------



## hrstrat57 (Sep 13, 2009)

GSS, one of the best handles in the history of the internet......I hope he uses it if he signs up on epic or tgr.......

When popping in here infrequently GSS gave me quite a few LOL's


----------



## Paul (Sep 13, 2009)

hrstrat57 said:


> GSS, one of the best handles in the history of the internet......I hope he uses it if he signs up on epic or tgr.......
> 
> When popping in here infrequently GSS gave me quite a few LOL's



He used his real name on Epic.


----------



## Hergini Coop74 (Sep 13, 2009)

Wow. I'm so amazed to see the time frame of most of these post on Friday..... I have a hard time believing you all work third shift, are self employed or a do nothing CEO. . . .  May I have your job?

Everyone lighten up. It's only the internet and it shouldn't be taken seriously.

September 11, 2001 was one of the most memorable and best days of my life.

WooHoo - - Post #7!


----------



## JimG. (Sep 13, 2009)

Heh...it was only a matter of time.

I truly admired GSS's ability to generate free time.


----------



## hrstrat57 (Sep 13, 2009)

Paul said:


> He used his real name on Epic.



Not on epic much these days either....haven't had the time to dial in the new format.......and many of my favorite posters aren't playing anymore.

He's already signed up huh?

I think he should reconsider....GSS is an awesome handle!!!

I'll have to check it out...thanks.


----------



## Paul (Sep 13, 2009)

Hergini Coop74 said:


> Wow. I'm so amazed to see the time frame of most of these post on Friday..... I have a hard time believing you all work third shift, are self employed or a do nothing CEO. . . .  May I have your job?
> 
> Everyone lighten up. It's only the internet and it shouldn't be taken seriously.
> 
> ...



You know you don't want my job.


----------



## Hergini Coop74 (Sep 13, 2009)

Paul said:


> You know you don't want my job.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2009)

Hergini Coop74 said:


> Everyone lighten up. It's only the internet and it shouldn't be taken seriously.



I do agree that people can become too uptight.

However, there isn't a thing I would say on the internet, especially 'here' that I wouldn't say to someone's face in real life.  For better or for worse, I try and represent myself exactly as 'who I am' and try and be polite and respectful of others exactly as I would having met them for the first time. 

The reason is, unlike certain other internet forums, Alpinezone (as I've always understood it's aim) is meant to be very much a networking site for people to get together and enjoy outdoor pursuits in New England 'off line'. 

So, in saying all this.  I and I know the rest of the mods, don't care much for trolls, internet bullies and overall high school locker room behavior.  There are a thousand places on the internet where people can go do that.  Some people will find the moderating of such behavior makes this place 'boring'.  That's perfectly fine, they can go entertain themselves elsewhere. 

Ultimately, the goal of Alpinezone is to be as welcoming a place as possible.  Contrary to the belief of a very vocal minority, most new members don't want to hear, "Welcome to Alpinezone you fucking n00b"


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 14, 2009)

JimG. said:


> Heh...it was only a matter of time.
> 
> *I truly admired GSS's ability to generate free time*.



Friggin LOL :beer:


----------



## hammer (Sep 14, 2009)

skidbump said:


> You guys realize without him and the sale posts ,this place is pretty dead/pretty boring


I remember being concerned that this place would be a lot more boring after political discussions were declared off-limits...things slowed down a bit but in the end it was a good thing.  In addition, I've seen that limitation pressed quite a few times...

Hopefully Doug will learn from this experience and will make good contributions over on Epicski...I look and post over there from time to time.

As for the rest of us, I think it's good to express opinions on whether GSS should have been banned, but don't decide to leave AZ in a snit over this.  The AZ community is not (nor should it) be defined by one or a few members.


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 14, 2009)

hammer said:


> The AZ community is not (nor should it) be defined by one or a few members.


Hammer nailed it!


----------



## bvibert (Sep 14, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Hammer nailed it!



Yes!  But I feel obligated to point out that someone else made that same point a couple days ago. 



severine said:


> ...But this is Alpine Zone, not GSS-zone. Don't ever expect it to become that or to revolve around any one member. Aside from Greg, we're all replaceable here. No board revolves around just one person, nor should it....


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 14, 2009)

Brian, you're harshen my mellow.

I said, Hammer, Nailed it!  C'mon that was funny, eh?

Severine nailed it doesn't have the same ring.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 14, 2009)

Greg said:


> Impossible to know for sure since that group contains spammer and bots, aliases, etc. If I had to guess, probably less than 10 actual members. beswift, RossiSkier, snowman, and now GSS are the most notorious.



That is a slap in the face to ghosty and freehillwilly!!


----------



## snoseek (Sep 14, 2009)

From another thread-just a reminder


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 14, 2009)

snoseek said:


> From another thread-just a reminder


I think I just felt my quiver quiver.


----------



## Geoff (Sep 14, 2009)

JimG. said:


> Heh...it was only a matter of time.
> 
> I truly admired GSS's ability to generate free time.



I didn't.   His family enabled his internet presence all these years.   In high school, he'd sit at the family computer from the minute he got home from school.   His grandparents paid for his college.   Family money bought his car and his season passes & beer money.  He's apparently working for daddy's tombstone company where he clearly isn't doing much to move the business forward.   I was on the internet a lot for the 14 1/2 months when I wasn't working.   I no longer have the time.


Which reminds me, I have to get some crap done today.   With the Pats game at 7:00, I can't shift my work day out too far.


----------



## hammer (Sep 14, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Yes!  But I feel obligated to point out that someone else made that same point a couple days ago.


Fair enough...and full credit should be given to Severine.  +1 to her comment.

I usually try to read through threads so that I don't provide redundant comments, but I guess I didn't this time...


----------



## bvibert (Sep 14, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Brian, you're harshen my mellow.
> 
> I said, Hammer, Nailed it!  C'mon that was funny, eh?
> 
> Severine nailed it doesn't have the same ring.



DOH!  Totally missed that. :dunce:


----------



## bvibert (Sep 14, 2009)

hammer said:


> Fair enough...and full credit should be given to Severine.  +1 to her comment.
> 
> I usually try to read through threads so that I don't provide redundant comments, but I guess I didn't this time...



No worries, I wasn't trying to put down your comment in any way.  Just trying to give my wife some props too.


----------



## Swamp Dog (Sep 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Some people will find the moderating of such behavior makes this place 'boring'.  That's perfectly fine, they can go entertain themselves elsewhere.
> 
> Ultimately, the goal of Alpinezone is to be as welcoming a place as possible.  Contrary to the belief of a very vocal minority, most new members don't want to hear, "Welcome to Alpinezone you fucking n00b"



thank you.


----------



## Swamp Dog (Sep 14, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Brian, you're harshen my mellow.
> 
> I said, Hammer, Nailed it!  C'mon that was funny, eh?
> 
> Severine nailed it doesn't have the same ring.



TC for the win!


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> I whole hartedly disagree with this. IMO his comments were not Worth getting banned, you guys were just looking for an excuse to ban him. This site is already boring enough latly, this decision will make it even more so.
> 
> I wonder how long it will take for me to get a warning for disagreeing with the mods?



+1

Clearly GSS has been held to a different standard than other members, which has been evidenced in a number of threads. Obviously the mods were looking for a reason to ban him.

GSS's devotion to this site, humor, and passion for skiing is unmatched. Sad to see so many people completely lacking a sense of humor, and more importantly being extremely oversensitive. This is a message board after all! A place for discussions and for people to post their opinions. I can't imagine ever actually being offended by something posted on the interenet. Sadly I think this is a reflection of the direction our society is headed in. I won't elaborate, as it would likely be seen as political.

Bottom line, it is truly sad to see suck overmoderation, and this is a HUGE loss for AZ. I will likely still read, and occasionally post on the forum, but not nearly as often, as this forum is now without it's most passionate and entertaining member.


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> Bottom line, it is truly sad to see suck overmoderation, and this is a HUGE loss for AZ. I will likely still read, and occasionally post on the forum, but not nearly as often, as this forum is now without it's most passionate and entertaining member.



I'll miss GSS here and I'm not entirely happy with the way things went down, but c'mon this isn't GSSZone. Save your threats, as someone who just joined in April and has barely over 100 posts you'll hardly be missed. Why don't you try and add some flavor instead of relying on someone else to make the place interesting.


----------



## mattchuck2 (Sep 14, 2009)

Ummmmm . . .  I've been away for a few days . . . I read this entire thread, but I can't find the offending comments.  Something about how he used a 9/11 memorial thread to complain about the Iraq war?  Shouldn't that have just been deleted as "politics" and the issue been resolved?  I know he's been "warned" over and over again, but really, if some asshat (or crazy guy, or psychopath, etc.) wants to post something up on the community bulletin board (to use an analogy that has been used in this thread), then he's fully in his right to do so.  And the owner of the bulletin board is fully within his rights to take it down.  

GSS posted a lot (a massive amount, actually).  When you post so many times, there's going to be a lot of things that offend people.  Not to say "grow a thicker skin", but I wish that people would try to ignore the rantings of maniacs.  If you were walking down the street, and some stoner was on the side of the road smoking a joint and saying to you, as you were walking by "Maaaaaaaannnnn, the government knocked those towers down . . . Maaaaaaaannnnn, the government is trying to put microchips into the H1N1 vaccine to track everybody by GPS . . . Maaaaaaaaaannnnn, the President isn't an American citizen and he's a nazi/socialist/fascist/communist dictator."  You'd ignore him immediately.  As someone said, there was a way you could have done that.  You just all chose not to.

I agree with that guy who runs that other board that GSS posts on.  If 98% of the posts are useful in some way (funny, witty, so mind-bendingly stupid that they become funny, etc.), just delete the offensive posts and be done with it.  Maybe it's the Libertarian in me, but I believe that when someone posts something questionable or insensitive or just plain dumb, and then they get called out on it by others, it actually helps everyone as a learning experience.  I ignored GSS a lot.  So much so, that I didn't realize he smokes massive amounts of weed (maybe THAT'S why those video webcasts weren't funny at all, I wasn't properly prepared to watch them). But not having his voice will make everything around here just a wee bit more boring.

But that's just one man's opinion.


----------



## Grassi21 (Sep 14, 2009)

I am not anti-GSS.  But I am sick of hearing how his passion for blah blah blah outweighs his (insert descriptive word here) post about 9-11.  Seriously?  Does someone's passion for something give them carte blanche to insult other people and blow off REPEATED warnings from the mods?  There are many historical figures who were passionate about their beliefs but were deemed evil by the masses.  Does that mean some of the most vile people in our past and future deserve to be given a break due to their passion?  I am big on the idea of being able to say and do what you like....  just be ready to deal with the aftermath.  We are all accountable for our actions.  

As many have stated, he was searching for the edge and he finally pushed the mods over that edge.  

For the record, I don't mind if he was reinstated down the line.


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I'll miss GSS here and I'm not entirely happy with the way things went down, but c'mon this isn't GSSZone. Save your threats, as someone who just joined in April and has barely over 100 posts you'll hardly be missed. Why don't you try and add some flavor instead of relying on someone else to make the place interesting.



Threats? What threat did I make? Is there a minimum post count to have an opinion? Hardly missed? I specificaly said I wasn't leaving. I think you need to re-read my post. And no, this isn't GSSZone, but he was the most active member and brought a lot to this forum, and during the slow times made the site worth reading. Seems logical to check in a little less often without him.


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> Threats? What threat did I make? Is there a minimum post count to have an opinion? Hardly missed? I specificaly said I wasn't leaving. I think you need to re-read my post. And no, this isn't GSSZone, but he was the most active member and brought a lot to this forum, and during the slow times made the site worth reading. Seems logical to check in a little less often without him.



The threat to be less active (maybe I overstated a bit ...). Why not be more active and make it a place more to your liking?


----------



## mattchuck2 (Sep 14, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Why don't you try and add some flavor instead of relying on someone else to make the place interesting.



I thought about this too . . . I just don't have the personality to post 20-50 times in one thread about random stuff.  In fact, I don't have his personality at all.  First of all, I don't think people care about what I have to say on many topics (who cares what I'm eating for dinner?).  He not only invented those multi-page threads, he (sometimes single-handedly) kept them alive.  Also, his hip hop knowledge was pretty good for a 30 year old white guy, and a welcome change in musical tastes for a board of people who listen to classic rock and jam bands.  Finally, nobody (and I mean NOBODY) practices Smart Style like the Steeze.


----------



## Puck it (Sep 14, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> The threat to be less active (maybe I overstated a bit ...). Why not be more active and make it a place more to your liking?



Okay. This is yesterday news. Can we just dropped all of this?   GSS has all ready found a new home.


----------



## Beetlenut (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> Threats? What threat did I make? Is there a minimum post count to have an opinion? Hardly missed? I specificaly said I wasn't leaving. I think you need to re-read my post. And no, this isn't GSSZone, but he was the most active member and brought a lot to this forum, and during the slow times made the site worth reading. Seems logical to check in a little less often without him.


 
Then you'll want to join-up and check-in at Epicski, where he'll surely bring a lot his "passion for skiing" that you thought made the site worth reading!


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> The threat to be less active (maybe I overstated a bit ...). Why not be more active and make it a place more to your liking?



Point taken. I have read the forums for a couple of years now, and just decided to join in April. I prefer to watch from the sidelines for the most part, but will likely post more during ski season. It amazes me, and this is not an insult to anyone, how some people seem to have something to say about everything. Many topics I simply don't care about or have an opinion on at all, so I only post if I feel I have something to contribute.

New member or not, I am sad to see the recent overmoderation on this site, and very sad to see GSS banned. Even though I am not in the AZ inner circle I do have the right to express that. Or do I????......


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

Beetlenut said:


> Then you'll want to join-up and check-in at Epicski, where he'll surely bring a lot his "passion for skiing" that you thought made the site worth reading!



Perhaps I will do that! I think people are taking my points out of context though. There IS way more to AZ than GSS, and I will still visit the site. I just feel the site lost (in an unfortunate way) it's most entertaining member.


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 14, 2009)

The big difference with EpicSki is that there are a few off season sports forums outside of the lounge, but any other miscellaneous discussion like the what's for dinner threads, are only allowed in the supporter lounge, so he'll have to pony up 35.00 if he wants to play there.


----------



## Glenn (Sep 14, 2009)

It's three days later. Can we let this crap die? It is what it is. The sun will still rise in the east and set in the west. Life goes on kids.


----------



## andyzee (Sep 14, 2009)

Glenn said:


> It's three days later. Can we let this crap die? It is what it is. The sun will still rise in the east and set in the west. Life goes on kids.



GSS's car died, I don't think it's right to make fun of his bad luck.


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> New member or not, I am sad to see the recent overmoderation on this site, and very sad to see GSS banned. Even though I am not in the AZ inner circle I do have the right to express that. Or do I????......



You paid your membership "dues" right?:lol:  I'm only kidding.  Express away.



Glenn said:


> It's three days later. Can we let this crap die? It is what it is. The sun will still rise in the east and set in the west. Life goes on kids.



Best beating a dead horse graphic I've ever seen.  A keeper for sure.  I agree with Glenn and Grassi and countless others on here.

The snow's coming soon folks!  Let's focus on the approaching season!


----------



## wa-loaf (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> New member or not, I am sad to see the recent overmoderation on this site, and very sad to see GSS banned. Even though I am not in the AZ inner circle I do have the right to express that. Or do I????......



Of course, I just though it odd that you were talking about not participating much when hadn't done so to begin with.

FYI: I'm not in the inner circle, you have to live in Connecticut for that ...


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 14, 2009)

mattchuck2 said:


> I thought about this too . . . I just don't have the personality to post 20-50 times in one thread about random stuff.  In fact, I don't have his personality at all.  First of all, I don't think people care about what I have to say on many topics (who cares what I'm eating for dinner?).  He not only invented those multi-page threads, he (sometimes single-handedly) kept them alive.  Also, his hip hop knowledge was pretty good for a 30 year old white guy, and a welcome change in musical tastes for a board of people who listen to classic rock and jam bands.  Finally, nobody (and I mean NOBODY) practices *Smart Style* like the Steeze.



What is Smart Style???


----------



## bvibert (Sep 14, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Best beating a dead horse graphic I've ever seen.  A keeper for sure.



That is a good one!  

That's Michael Bolton from Office Space beating the printer, right?  Obviously made to look like an animation and with a horse added over the printer...


----------



## awf170 (Sep 14, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> The reason is, unlike certain other internet forums, Alpinezone (as I've always understood it's aim) is meant to be very much a networking site for people to get together and enjoy outdoor pursuits in New England 'off line'.




So you need moderation for that to be possible?  TGR has tons and tons of people that see each other in the real world.  Probably a lot more than this site even.


----------



## severine (Sep 14, 2009)

awf170 said:


> So you need moderation for that to be possible?  TGR has tons and tons of people that see each other in the real world.  Probably a lot more than this site even.



Not everyone is interested in hanging out with a bunch of asshats such as would be found on TGR. Some of us, believe it or not, are mature people. If I wanted the Kindergarten crowd, that's where I'd be. 

Thicker skin... maybe. But again... you all don't know everything that was said and done. The mods did their job and that's the end of it. Let's move on.... This is hardly worth the pages of posts that have been made.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2009)

awf170 said:


> So you need moderation for that to be possible?  TGR has tons and tons of people that see each other in the real world.  Probably a lot more than this site even.




I personally don't care for all the BS over on TGR.  I've checked it out a couple of times and while there are some good threads in there, I'm not into trolling and flame wars.  Maybe moderation doesn't make a difference whether or not people see each other in the real world.  I'm glad Alpinezone is not like TGR.  If it were, I wouldn't bother coming here.


----------



## midd (Sep 14, 2009)

it's a little weird that the TGR is viewed as the epitome of all that's wrong with the internet by many here.  

from the perspective of an outsider, this place has can feel a little too clubby.


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

severine said:


> Not everyone is interested in hanging out with a bunch of asshats such as would be found on TGR. Some of us, believe it or not, are mature people. If I wanted the Kindergarten crowd, that's where I'd be.
> 
> Thicker skin... maybe. But again... you all don't know everything that was said and done. The mods did their job and that's the end of it. Let's move on.... This is hardly worth the pages of posts that have been made.



The number of posts on this subject clearly show how unpopular this decision was, and how for the most part people are unhappy with it. I am sure a poll would overwhelmingly indicate that, and I would imagine the mods know that and that is why they aren't allowing one. However, it is Greg's site and he can do what he wants with it.


----------



## eastcoastpowderhound (Sep 14, 2009)

severine said:


> Not everyone is interested in hanging out with a bunch of asshats such as would be found on TGR. Some of us, believe it or not, are mature people. If I wanted the Kindergarten crowd, that's where I'd be.
> 
> Thicker skin... maybe. But again... you all don't know everything that was said and done. The mods did their job and that's the end of it. Let's move on.... This is hardly worth the pages of posts that have been made.



nice generalization!  not everyone on TGR is an "asshat" just like not everyone on here is a gaper.

If you think its not worth the pages of posts why are you still posting in the thread?  Ignore it.  This is a community forum...these posts are feedback from the community.  While this isn't really a democracy its not Iran either.


----------



## mattchuck2 (Sep 14, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> What is Smart Style???



It's a terrain park guide to make sure everyone is safe while riding the park.  I don't know why, but Steeze mentioned it constantly


----------



## severine (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> The number of posts on this subject clearly show how unpopular this decision was, and how for the most part people are unhappy with it. I am sure a poll would overwhelmingly indicate that, and I would imagine the mods know that and that is why they aren't allowing one. However, it is Greg's site and he can do what he wants with it.



It's been mentioned before but those who so badly need a GSS fix can find him at PASkiandride, Epic, and noshitzone. Feel free...

Doesn't matter what the poll said. Greg and the mods decided to ban him. End of story.


----------



## severine (Sep 14, 2009)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> nice generalization!  not everyone on TGR is an "asshat" just like not everyone on here is a gaper.
> 
> If you think its not worth the pages of posts why are you still posting in the thread?  Ignore it.  This is a community forum...these posts are feedback from the community.  While this isn't really a democracy its not Iran either.



Weeding through the noise there to find those who are not is not something I would have the time for... 

You've been a member since June 2007? The forum was very different pre-GSS. From what I understand there is a hope that it will turn that way again. As mentioned... if you need a GSS fix, you know where to find him. 

Comparing this situation to Iran is... laughable. You have no idea. If this were such, this forum wouldn't exist. Ever talk to someone from Iran? My World Religions professor is here because if her family didn't emigrate, they would have been exterminated. In the grand scheme, this is really nothing.......


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

severine said:


> It's been mentioned before but those who so badly need a GSS fix can find him at PASkiandride, Epic, and noshitzone. Feel free...
> 
> Doesn't matter what the poll said. Greg and the mods decided to ban him. End of story.



Interesting, ignoring the voice of your clientele and taking your business in a completely different direction. Sounds an awful lot like a certain mountain in central VT and we all saw how that worked out. Hopefully (and I am being sincere) it works out better for AZ. I find it funny how all of the GSS haters want to put this to rest as quickly as possible now that they finally got what they want. It has only been 3 days! Anyway, like I said before, this is Greg's site and he can do what he wants with it. That is how it should be. And I have made my opinion clear, so I will let it go.


----------



## midd (Sep 14, 2009)

severine said:


> W
> You've been a member since June 2007? The forum was very different pre-GSS. From what I understand there is a hope that it will turn that way again. As mentioned... if you need a GSS fix, you know where to find him.




I couldn't care less about GSS.  more interested in the tact "management" takes when faced with a decision about a poster.  

the above post illustrates my "clubby" comment perfectly.  how many more posters/independent visitors does the site have today vs. 2006?  to expect it to remain the same is naive.


----------



## Greg (Sep 14, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> Interesting, ignoring the voice of your clientele and taking your business in a completely different direction. Sounds an awful lot like a certain mountain in central VT and we all saw how that worked out. Hopefully (and I am being sincere) it works out better for AZ. I find it funny how all of the GSS haters want to put this to rest as quickly as possible now that they finally got what they want. It has only been 3 days! Anyway, like I said before, this is Greg's site and he can do what he wants with it. That is how it should be. And I have made my opinion clear, so I will let it go.



It's my assumption that those that are so firmly against the GSS banning are not in some huge majority. Like anything else, people are more inclined to complain than they are to show support. I would guess the split for or against the banning is closer to 50:50. I've gotten several PMs showing support from folks that did not want to perpetuate this discussion and there have even been a few that have posted they support the mods' and my decision here. With that said, if you guys just have to have a poll about it, go right ahead. Personally, I think we should all just move on.


----------



## hammer (Sep 14, 2009)

So which of the 5 stages of loss are we at now?


----------



## ski220 (Sep 14, 2009)

Glenn said:


> It's three days later. Can we let this crap die? It is what it is. The sun will still rise in the east and set in the west.



But will it still SNOW ???


----------



## MR. evil (Sep 14, 2009)

Greg said:


> It's my assumption that those that are so firmly against the GSS banning are not in some huge majority. Like anything else, people are more inclined to complain than they are to show support.



Using your own argument against you, wouldn’t also be safe to say that those who complained about GSS were also in the minority? Just another typical case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> Using your own argument against you, wouldn’t also be safe to say that those who complained about GSS were also in the minority? Just another typical case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.



That is how things often work in the World in general. A vocal minority making and influencing decisons for the silent majority. I suspect the 50:50 split may be close to accurate for the number of people that enjoyed GSS's posts, but I suspect a large percentage of the other group would support GSS based on principal.


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 14, 2009)

*See yer still looking at*

GSS threads on 9/14


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 14, 2009)

Greg said:


> With that said, if you guys just have to have a poll about it, go right ahead. Personally, I think we should all just move on.



_Please don't take this the wrong way...I'm not losing any sleep over any of this._

There was a poll started, and the AZ Management locked the thread.  Why not un-lock it, let the poll run it's course and let the folks who are so vocal and passionate about this event, get it off their chest once and for all.

That being said I'm counting the days until the snow comes.

PS.  The GSS thread is longer then the current Killington Thread.  Something about that amuses me.


----------



## andyzee (Sep 14, 2009)

Funny, there's plenty of times I would have loved to seen him banned. Now he's been turned into a martyr :lol: This world is going to sh......


----------



## Greg (Sep 14, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> Using your own argument against you, wouldn’t also be safe to say that those who complained about GSS were also in the minority? Just another typical case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.



You're probably correct.

Look, here's the bottom line - we're doing the best we can. GSS had *several *warnings and he refused to listen to them. At some point, we had to follow through. If we never did, this site may as well be totally un-moderated. If that's what some of you want, then AZ is not the place for you. If his banning is going to cause you to post less, or leave entirely, that's completely your prerogative and I respect that.

However, AZ became popular as the primary place to discuss Northeast skiing with a lot of industry participation based on a moderating approach we adopted long before GSS was here. We're now trying to get back to that type of forum. I freely admit it's not for everybody; never has been.


----------



## bvibert (Sep 14, 2009)

MR. evil said:


> Using your own argument against you, wouldn’t also be safe to say that those who complained about GSS were also in the minority? Just another typical case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.



You keep trying to make it sound like the only reason he got banned is because of a few complaints.

It's been said multiple times before, but I'll say it again; the complaints about him were only part of what got him banned.  Take away the complaints and he still would have gotten banned.  You can not deny that he broke the rules on many occasions, was disrespectful to forum members, and consistently ignored requests by us to follow the rules.  You can say whatever you want about the guy, but he had no respect for this community as a whole, he was only interested in making it his own playground.  Unless you saw every single post he ever posted and PM exchanges between him and the staff here you have no idea just how accurate my above statement is.

To put it simply; It doesn't matter if the majority of the people here voted to keep him around, he's not willing to play by the rules set forth by Greg, that's why he's gone.  You can go on whining about the minority this, and the majority that, and whatever else you desire.  Greg likes to get the input from the community on some occasions for some things, but ultimately it's his board and he sets the rules.


----------



## RootDKJ (Sep 14, 2009)

Greg said:


> You're probably correct.
> 
> Look, here's the bottom line - we're doing the best we can. GSS had *several *warnings and he refused to listen to them. At some point, we had to follow through. If we never did, this site may as well be totally un-moderated. If that's what some of you want, then AZ is not the place for you. If his banning is going to cause you to post less, or leave entirely, that's completely your prerogative and I respect that.
> 
> *However, AZ became popular as the primary place to discuss Northeast skiing with a lot of industry participation *based on a moderating approach we adopted long before GSS was here. We're now trying to get back to that type of forum. I freely admit it's not for everybody; never has been.


This is why I first started to visit AZ.  I hope to see more if that in the future.


----------



## Riverskier (Sep 14, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> _Please don't take this the wrong way...I'm not losing any sleep over any of this._
> 
> There was a poll started, and the AZ Management locked the thread.  Why not un-lock it, let the poll run it's course and let the folks who are so vocal and passionate about this event, get it off their chest once and for all.
> 
> ...



+1

And trust me, I am not losing any sleep either. However, it seems this decison is being communicated as being the will of the members. Why not let the poll run? If people are clearly in favor of banning GSS, I think the decison would be easier for others to accept. If not, so what? It is your site and you can do what you want with it. I just think it would be interesting to see statisticaly how people feel about this.

Edit: I see now that this isn't being argued as the will of the people, but as a tactical business decision. That I repect, though I would still be interested to see the results of a poll.


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 14, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> This is why I first started to visit AZ.  I hope to see more if that in the future.


Amen! That's a key draw for many of the quality members.




Riverskier said:


> +1
> 
> And trust me, I am not losing any sleep either. However, it seems this decison is being communicated as being the will of the members. Why not let the poll run? If people are clearly in favor of banning GSS, I think the decison would be easier for others to accept. If not, so what? It is your site and you can do what you want with it. I just think it would be interesting to see statisticaly how people feel about this.
> 
> Edit: I see now that this isn't being argued as the will of the people, but as a tactical business decision. That I repect, though I would still be interested to see the results of a poll.


IMHO a poll is a mistake because it won't make an impact on the decision, and will only create another platform to draw attention away from  the true vibe of AZ.

YMMV


----------



## Grassi21 (Sep 14, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> IMHO a poll is a mistake because it won't make an impact on the decision, and will only create another platform to draw attention away from  the true vibe of AZ.
> 
> YMMV



+1


----------



## eastcoastpowderhound (Sep 14, 2009)

severine said:


> Weeding through the noise there to find those who are not is not something I would have the time for...
> 
> You've been a member since June 2007? The forum was very different pre-GSS. From what I understand there is a hope that it will turn that way again. As mentioned... if you need a GSS fix, you know where to find him.



I was here a couple months before GSS arrived...right in the middle of the Snowman reign of terror...didn't seem all that different in those 2 months before GSS arrived than it did after.  

As for the whole "you don't know what it was like before" line that keeps coming up, its getting tired...we're here now and we're part of the community...what felt like an open and inviting community, but the more you "old timers" toss around your length of tenure and the whole "you haven't been here long enough" bs,  the less inviting a place this is to new comers and the less likely they will be to stay and post.


----------



## ctenidae (Sep 14, 2009)

I've probably typed 15 replies to this thread, but every time, I haven't hit "Post."

Why? Because I almost care, but then don't. I can honestly say I've never, ever been offended by anything someone has posted on any forum, anywhere. Probably becasue it's an internet forum. It's not worth my time and energy to get all worked up about something someoneposts.

I have gotten interested in things, become excited about possibilities, and gone places I maybe wouldn't have otherwise because of things I've read, both here and other places. But get upset or angry? Just not worth it.

I _have_ been here for a while. I _do_ remember what it was like before GSS. 
I still read the parts I like, and ignore the rest. Pretty easy formula.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Sep 14, 2009)

This whole topic is useless > Look if u want to leave leave < I f u want to stay stay. but no ONE individual is the determinant factor  of that decision but yourself .

  It's time to man/woman up make YOUR decision one way or the other and shut up and ski  as one of our member"s says in his  sig line .

 I hope you stay, but if you can't abide the decision by board mgmt then sayonnara baby!!  it 's been nice and its been real -- C'YA


----------



## andyzee (Sep 14, 2009)

I look at this thread and I see the link for "Last Page" Then I think to myself, "Is it really"


----------



## JimG. (Sep 14, 2009)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> I was here a couple months before GSS arrived...right in the middle of the Snowman reign of terror...didn't seem all that different in those 2 months before GSS arrived than it did after.
> 
> As for the whole "you don't know what it was like before" line that keeps coming up, its getting tired...we're here now and we're part of the community...what felt like an open and inviting community, but the more you "old timers" toss around your length of tenure and the whole "you haven't been here long enough" bs,  the less inviting a place this is to new comers and the less likely they will be to stay and post.



Well put.

I have been mostly silent about all of this.

There was nothing specific about the departed I would hold against him...I don't know him and can only go by what he posted. It was obvious he was passionate about skiing. I liked that. He also spent alot of time online here and elsewhere which is also fine. 

The sheer volume of his posts was a bit overwhelming, but easily ignored. 

And like everyone else in here, he had his asshole moments. 

I still don't really know why he wanted to be a moderator so much. I guess it was a status thing for him.


----------



## ctenidae (Sep 14, 2009)

JimG. said:


> I still don't really know why he wanted to be a moderator so much. I guess it was a status thing for him.



Chicks dig Mods.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 14, 2009)

Glenn said:


> It's three days later. Can we let this crap die? It is what it is. The sun will still rise in the east and set in the west. Life goes on kids.



I get the dead horse thing but it's funnier seeing a printer get beat up.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Sep 14, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> This whole topic is useless > Look if u want to leave leave < I f u want to stay stay. but no ONE individual is the determinant factor  of that decision but yourself .
> 
> It's time to man/woman up make YOUR decision one way or the other and shut up and ski  as one of our member"s says in his  sig line .
> 
> I hope you stay, but if you can't abide the decision by board mgmt then sayonnara baby!!  it 's been nice and its been real -- C'YA


 +1


----------



## faceplant (Sep 14, 2009)

JimG. said:


> Well
> 
> I still don't really know why he wanted to be a moderator so much. I guess it was a status thing for him.




call me paranoid but

mebbe it was really a _'manchurian candidate thing' _ for him................    :blink:

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMrAhe_K6A*



.


----------



## highpeaksdrifter (Sep 14, 2009)

I just saw GSS logged in on Current Active Users. Is he back? I'm not seeing things.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 14, 2009)

mattchuck2 said:


> I thought about this too . . . I just don't have the personality to post 20-50 times in one thread about random stuff.  In fact, I don't have his personality at all.  First of all, I don't think people care about what I have to say on many topics (who cares what I'm eating for dinner?).  He not only invented those multi-page threads, he (sometimes single-handedly) kept them alive.  Also, his hip hop knowledge was pretty good for a 30 year old white guy, *and a welcome change in musical tastes for a board of people who listen to classic rock and jam bands.*  Finally, nobody (and I mean NOBODY) practices Smart Style like the Steeze.



While the only hip-hop I really know is early 90's gansta rap my favorite music is heavy metal and hard rock from the late 1960's through today, so that sets me apart I guess.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Sep 15, 2009)

ERJ-145CA said:


> While the only hip-hop I really know is early 90's gansta rap my favorite music is heavy metal and hard rock from the late 1960's through today, so that sets me apart I guess.



Me too !!! altho i also like  CR and some Indie stuff  but hard rock and METAL  is still my fav


----------



## Dr Skimeister (Sep 15, 2009)

ERJ-145CA said:


> While the only hip-hop I really know is early 90's gansta rap my favorite music is heavy metal and hard rock from the late 1960's through today, so that sets me apart I guess.





Warp Daddy said:


> Me too !!! altho i also like  CR and some Indie stuff  but hard rock and METAL  is still my fav



Here's the first album by these guys in like 13 years for the hard rock lovers.
New from Polvo.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 15, 2009)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Here's the first album by these guys in like 13 years for the hard rock lovers.
> New from Polvo.



Wow Dr., do you know every album ever released?


----------



## Warp Daddy (Sep 15, 2009)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Here's the first album by these guys in like 13 years for the hard rock lovers.
> New from Polvo.



Doc you are amazing. like the fountain of all musical knowledge !!!

thanks 
Warp


----------



## Trekchick (Sep 15, 2009)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Here's the first album by these guys in like 13 years for the hard rock lovers.
> New from Polvo.


I bow to your incredible Music prowess!


----------



## tcharron (Sep 15, 2009)

hammer said:


> So which of the 5 stages of loss are we at now?



Bargaining, for sure.  :-D

Of course, others are at that 'Mad black woman screaming for revenge and how they didn't deserve to loss their child' stage.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 15, 2009)

severine said:


> It's been mentioned before but those who so badly need a GSS fix can find him at PASkiandride, Epic, and noshitzone. Feel free...
> 
> Doesn't matter what the poll said. Greg and the mods decided to ban him. End of story.



I think the counter to that argument is, there are plenty of other threads, so feel free to stop reading this one.

Back to the point, however, I think anyone who IS revved up about this subject REALLY needs to read the thread http://forums.alpinezone.com/62955-lock-happy.html#post459786 from that post on.  The mods did the best job at explaining why there, and the reason why had not much to do with one specific unwitty remark.


----------



## ski220 (Sep 15, 2009)

A lot of people like to listen to some hardcore to get them pumped while going up the access road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4kdO24qgH0&feature=related


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 16, 2009)

mattchuck2 said:


> It's a terrain park guide to make sure everyone is safe while riding the park.  I don't know why, but Steeze mentioned it constantly



Thanks, now I have a new term I can thro around in the liftline so I can sound cool


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Sep 16, 2009)

*Smart Style*

From the official source:

http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/safety/smart-style/


----------



## Chris I (Sep 16, 2009)

uke:


----------



## Chris I (Sep 16, 2009)

gss go to skiadk.com.

That place needs some posts


----------



## campgottagopee (Sep 16, 2009)

Chris I said:


> gss go to skiadk.com.
> 
> That place needs some posts



Dang!!!


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 17, 2009)

Top of the thread stoke for page 27. Tee hee.........


----------



## WJenness (Sep 17, 2009)

Personally, I'll miss GSS.

I liked reading his inane babble for some reason... and he had plenty of good posts too. I'm in the "can't be offended by something I read on the Internet" camp. I don't know what was said in the 9/11 thread, and I guess I don't really care... What's done is done.

This place will certainly be quieter without Steeze, and that will probably end up with me reading less, but who knows.

I also value the industry participation in this forum, and enjoy reading posts / stories from the 'insiders'... I hope that will continue / grow as I feel it is something that AZ has over other sites.

I'm a bit anxious to see what this forum will be like without him (I joined AZ about the same time as he did)... and exactly how different it will be.

As for his banning, I really can't say if I felt it was appropriate or not. I have not seen the comment(s) in question, or apparently other drama that Steeze was getting involved in (i.e. the family crisis mentioned by Greg that he apparently interjected himself into last summer).

-w


----------



## jaywbigred (Sep 17, 2009)

iwon't said:


> I apologize again for my roll in that activity..





mondeo said:


> I've gotten too far into it with him too. But he's the common link between a lot of the garbage that's gone on this summer, always instigating crap just to watch the train wreck.



What the heck happened this summer??



bvibert said:


> That is a good one!
> 
> That's Michael Bolton from Office Space beating the printer, right?  Obviously made to look like an animation and with a horse added over the printer...



I thought the same thing! Great scene.



WJenness said:


> Personally, I'll miss GSS.



Me too, but I am in no position to say whether or not banning him was right or wrong.

/Can't believe I just read the whole thread. Took me most of lunch.


----------



## tcharron (Sep 17, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> /Can't believe I just read the whole thread. Took me most of lunch.



That''s ok, a whole lotta people lost their lunch over the whole thing..

*OMG, JOKE!*


----------



## ski220 (Sep 18, 2009)

Going - going - 

Sh*t.  What did you do that for?


----------



## andyzee (Sep 22, 2009)

The other GSS thread has been getting too much attention. :-D


----------



## Moe Ghoul (Sep 22, 2009)

What's the record for post-ban threads and posts for an ousted member? Must be bumping up or exceeding that record..........He's a man of constant sorrow now.


----------



## severine (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm starting to think Greg may need to institute a policy like Epic's:


> Dispute Resolution: General policy questions and discussions are welcome, and frequently discussed in the Community forums.  However, do not start a thread or make public posts in any forum for the purpose of protesting or expressing displeasure with specific moderator decisions or actions.  Do not submit posts or  threads concerning banned individuals.  If you disagree with an action or decision, send a private message to any moderator or administrator. Treat the moderators and administrators with the same courtesy you would any other member.  Members concerns will be discussed among the moderator team.  We may allow your issue to be heard and discussed in a private forum by the member Advisory Planning Group, and admit you to that group to represent your viewpoint.  The goal of the moderator and administrative team is to serve the best interests of the EpicSki community; however we reserve the right to also consider the best interests of forum owners and management.



Obvious trolling as it is....


----------



## dmc (Sep 22, 2009)

severine said:


> I'm starting to think Greg may need to institute a policy like Epic's:
> 
> 
> Obvious trolling as it is....




zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......


----------



## tcharron (Sep 22, 2009)

severine said:


> So we're supposed to respect your opinions while you trash ours? :roll: Real mature...



At what point, exactly, in this thread, did you start

1) Speaking on behalf of Greg
2) Respecting the GSS lovers opinions?

I'm finding this whole thing funny, personally.


----------



## dmc (Sep 22, 2009)

severine said:


> So we're supposed to respect your opinions while you trash ours? :roll: Real mature...



Sorry... you bore me....  that my opinion...


you suggest that I can't respond when your opinion is designed to squash my opinion...  huh....  Well... Your married to a moderator - so - I abide to you...


----------



## severine (Sep 22, 2009)

tcharron said:


> At what point, exactly, in this thread, did you start
> 
> 1) Speaking on behalf of Greg
> 2) Respecting the GSS lovers opinions?
> ...


I was not speaking on behalf of Greg. I never claimed that I was and I'm sorry if you assumed such as it is an erroneous assumption, as assumptions often are.

However, I am not the only one of this opinion.

To quote your god himself, "respect earns respect." Ask him why he's lost mine.


----------



## dmc (Sep 22, 2009)

severine said:


> To quote your god himself, "respect earns respect." Ask him why he's lost mine.



My god can beat up your god...  for real...  i saw it last night...


----------



## tcharron (Sep 22, 2009)

severine said:


> I was not speaking on behalf of Greg. I never claimed that I was and I'm sorry if you assumed such as it is an erroneous assumption, as assumptions often are.
> 
> However, I am not the only one of this opinion.
> 
> To quote your god himself, "respect earns respect." Ask him why he's lost mine.



Then stop fighting with these guys, really.  They haven't (to my knowledge) brought any of this fetid pile of dingos kindneys thread thus far outside of the thread (ok, there ARE two threads I guess).

Stop answering 'em.  :-D


----------



## BigJay (Sep 22, 2009)

This is worst then one of the many Micheal Jackson case!
(oh yeah, and his last one!)


----------



## dmc (Sep 22, 2009)

so far - so good... the thread is quiet.... shhhhhhhh..... make it go away.....


----------



## tcharron (Sep 22, 2009)

dmc said:


> so far - so good... the thread is quiet.... shhhhhhhh..... make it go away.....



No, everyone can really express their opinion.  But bear in mind, ONE of the reasons he was banned was, for all practical purposes, calling mods names when they kindly asked him to knock it off.


----------



## dmc (Sep 22, 2009)

tcharron said:


> No, everyone can really express their opinion.  But bear in mind, ONE of the reasons he was banned was, for all practical purposes, calling mods names when they kindly asked him to knock it off.



I wasn't around for it... So I really don't know...


----------



## tcharron (Sep 22, 2009)

dmc said:


> I wasn't around for it... So I really don't know...



Well, seriously, are you thinking that all of the mods who chimed in are just totally lying their arses off?  None of us would know what happened in PM land.


----------

