# Resort Improvements 2015



## xlr8r (May 9, 2015)

I don't think anyone has started one of these threads yet this year.  What changes/improvements/expansions are taking place this year in the east.  I'm ignoring snowmaking upgrades for now as it seems every mountain upgrades their system every year.

Confirmed:
Sugarbush - New Valley house Quad replaces Valley House Double
Cannon - Continued development of racing facilities at Mittersill (Is the T bar going in this year?)
Stratton - Main Base Lodge expansion and renovation after the fire this year.
Burke - Completion of the Hotel
Haystack - New Six Pack replaces Barnstormer Triple
Killington - Mountain Coaster at Snowshed

Rumored:
Sunapee - Replace North Peak Triple with former Snowbowl Quad. Move North Peak Triple to backside of North Peak.  (no word on this yet, delayed?)
Waterville - Green Peak expansion. (seems to be approved but no work yet on it not even tree clearing, probably delayed)
Bromley - Upgrade Sun Peak Express chairs to be bubble chairs.  (heard about this from a local, could just be a wild rumor)
Sugarloaf - Replace/Upgrade/Fix King Pine Quad.  (something is going to be done with this lift, we just don't know what yet)
Loon - Beginner Pod at South Peak.  (approved, but probably still a year or two until this gets built

What else is happening?


----------



## deadheadskier (May 9, 2015)

Burke $1.1M snowmaking upgrade


----------



## drjeff (May 9, 2015)

Mount Snow - about 10 miles of snowmaking pipe replacement and the starting site prep, infrastructure work for their West Lake snowmaking project


----------



## WoodCore (May 9, 2015)

Barnstormer chair (being replaced by the new six pack) from The Hermitage was bought by West Mountain along with another drive unit. West plans to replace/upgrade their aged infrastructure. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## steamboat1 (May 9, 2015)

http://skivermont.com/skivt-blog/2015/05/06/whats-new-this-summer-at-vermont-ski-resort/


----------



## spiderpig (May 10, 2015)

New trails below South Face (connecting to South Face Village) are supposed to open at Okemo next season.


----------



## catsup948 (May 10, 2015)

Berkshire East terrain expansion possibly.  I don't know all the details right now.


----------



## Jully (May 11, 2015)

I was under the impression the Berkshire East terrain expansion was a few years away at least. I thought the main focus this summer was the downhill mountain bike park?


----------



## catsup948 (May 11, 2015)

Yeah mountain bikes are the main focus this year.  Some work may begin on the new terrain.  Idea has already been brought to town meeting.


----------



## xwhaler (May 11, 2015)

catsup948 said:


> Yeah mountain bikes are the main focus this year.  Some work may begin on the new terrain.  Idea has already been brought to town meeting.



More details please. What type of terrain? You are our eyes and ears for B East news.


----------



## catsup948 (May 11, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> More details please. What type of terrain? You are our eyes and ears for B East news.



I don't know to much about it I just know the Town of Charlemont knows about it.  I'll have more info soon.


----------



## Jully (May 11, 2015)

catsup948 said:


> Yeah mountain bikes are the main focus this year.  Some work may begin on the new terrain.  Idea has already been brought to town meeting.



That's delightful then!!


----------



## fbrissette (May 11, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> http://skivermont.com/skivt-blog/2015/05/06/whats-new-this-summer-at-vermont-ski-resort/



party pooper !


----------



## dlague (May 11, 2015)

fbrissette said:


> party pooper !



well there is still NY, MA, NH and ME to talk about - oh PQ (QC) and PA


----------



## steamboat1 (May 11, 2015)

fbrissette said:


> party pooper !


Was it the fat biking at Stratton that spoiled it for you or was it creature features at Smuggs?


----------



## ScottySkis (May 12, 2015)

More natural snow in Roxbury this coming winter most in Catskills.


----------



## Highway Star (May 12, 2015)

_*Killington = Zero.*_


----------



## Newpylong (May 12, 2015)

Looks like only two lifts in New England off hand - Sugarbush and the Hermitage?


----------



## DoublePlanker (May 12, 2015)

What about Balsams?


----------



## Domeskier (May 12, 2015)

Any new trails being cut or did the competition just throw in the towel after Sundown installed Satan's Staircase last year?


----------



## Abubob (May 12, 2015)

xlr8r said:


> Sunapee - Replace North Peak Triple with former Snowbowl Quad. Move North Peak Triple to backside of North Peak.  (no word on this yet, delayed?)


HSQ on North bowl completed last fall. I got to ride it several times on my visit there this past January. Triple stored in pieces behind it - don't know what the plans are for that.


----------



## Newpylong (May 12, 2015)

That is a fixed grip quad stored behind it, not a triple.

According to their Master Plan it might replace the North Peak triple or be a new install up from Sun Bowl to North peak roughly up Cataract.


----------



## Puck it (May 12, 2015)

Master Plan calls for the old Sun Bowl not North Bowol FGQ to go where the North Peak Triple and the triple comes out of the Sun Bowl to the North Peak where the Cataract Glades are.


----------



## Newpylong (May 12, 2015)

I literally just said that. :razz:


----------



## Puck it (May 12, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> I literally just said that. :razz:


sorry, relax Francis!!!


----------



## Jully (May 12, 2015)

DoublePlanker said:


> What about Balsams?



If the funding bill passes the senate after house amendments then construction is slated to begin in June of this year. Not opening until 2016-2017 season though.


----------



## Newpylong (May 12, 2015)

Puck it said:


> sorry, relax Francis!!!


----------



## WWF-VT (May 12, 2015)

Highway Star said:


> _*Killington = Zero.*_



What possible improvements can they make to a resort that is already perfect?


----------



## thetrailboss (May 12, 2015)

Not NE, but Snowbird this morning just announced this:  



> For the 2015-2016 ski season, Snowbird is investing more than $30 million into new capital projects. These new projects include The Summit at Snowbird, increased snow making capabilities, a new hands-free RFID ticket system, and an impressive remodel to The Cliff Lodge.



The Lodge looks great.  RFID will be nice.  As will the increased snowmaking.  

http://www.snowbird.com/winter/upgrades/?utm_source=closingday&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=may15


----------



## Abubob (May 12, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> That is a fixed grip quad stored behind it, not a triple.
> 
> According to their Master Plan it might replace the North Peak triple or be a new install up from Sun Bowl to North peak roughly up Cataract.





Puck it said:


> Master Plan calls for the old Sun Bowl not North Bowol FGQ to go where the North Peak Triple and the triple comes out of the Sun Bowl to the North Peak where the Cataract Glades are.


I'm sorry neither of these makes sense. Replacing a FGT with a FGQ is a waste of time and putting another chair from where the HSQ is to North Peak seems like a ridiculous waste of effort.


----------



## DoublePlanker (May 12, 2015)

Abubob said:


> I'm sorry neither of these makes sense. Replacing a FGT with a FGQ is a waste of time and putting another chair from where the HSQ is to North Peak seems like a ridiculous waste of effort.



I think there was supposed to be some new trails or glades off North Peak towards sun bowl.  So its effectively a pod.  In order to ski that terrain with current lift config, one would have to make 2 lift rides (sun bowl, ski to bottom, take the triple).


----------



## ScottySkis (May 12, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Not NE, but Snowbird this morning just announced this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Luck season Holder . hope your enjoy ing current new snow storm .!!!


----------



## Puck it (May 12, 2015)

DoublePlanker said:


> I think there was supposed to be some new trails or glades off North Peak towards sun bowl.  So its effectively a pod.  In order to ski that terrain with current lift config, one would have to make 2 lift rides (sun bowl, ski to bottom, take the triple).


Not really, you ski the Backside of the North Peak by taking the trail that requires skating. I think it is North peak passage or some thing like that.  Too lazy to look it up.  And yes to new trails on the back side of the North Peak. I think it is only a couple.


----------



## Newpylong (May 12, 2015)

Abubob said:


> I'm sorry neither of these makes sense. Replacing a FGT with a FGQ is a waste of time and putting another chair from where the HSQ is to North Peak seems like a ridiculous waste of effort.



Don't shoot the messenger!


----------



## skiadikt (May 13, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Not NE, but Snowbird this morning just announced this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



curious about the snowmaking. don't you guys average 500". perhaps lower elevations to help early season and i guess mineral basin junior's paradise & lupine loop?


----------



## Tin (May 13, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> More details please. What type of terrain? You are our eyes and ears for B East news.



More details even if they are just rumor please!


----------



## thetrailboss (May 13, 2015)

skiadikt said:


> curious about the snowmaking. don't you guys average 500". perhaps lower elevations to help early season and i guess mineral basin junior's paradise & lupine loop?



Theoretically we get 500" average a season, but in my four seasons out here we have not gotten close to that amount.  :roll:  The snowmaking helps them open routes early because the snow we get can be later.  It also will help them keep a consistent base if this drought continues.  

Snowbird has decent snowmaking coverage--Regulator Johnson, two-three routes off Gadzoom, and one main route down Peruvian.  Mineral Basin has one route with partial snowmaking.  They also have coverage on their beginner area.  They need to extend snowmaking up from Little Cloud base through Gremlin Gully and to Mark Malu.

Overall, this last season was better in terms of grooming and snowmaking despite the terrible snow season.  I think that their investments last season and hiring a few more ops guys is making a difference.


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 13, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> TThe snowmaking helps them open routes early because the snow we get can be later.  It also will help them keep a consistent base if this drought continues.



If the drought gets bad enough, would the water supply for snowmaking get cut off?


----------



## thetrailboss (May 13, 2015)

from_the_NEK said:


> If the drought gets bad enough, would the water supply for snowmaking get cut off?



Very good question.  Snowbird buys its water from the county.  It is stored in old mineshafts up in the Canyon.  I don't know how that would work in terms of this drought.....Utah is doing a good job denying that we have a problem.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 13, 2015)

I guess bad snow year is all relative.   I mean you're still skiing and didn't you just grab a May powder day?


----------



## thetrailboss (May 13, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I guess bad snow year is all relative.   I mean you're still skiing and didn't you just grab a May powder day?



My last day was indeed a powder day.  But I prefer my powder days on Memorial Day weekend.  First world problem I know...


----------



## SIKSKIER (May 18, 2015)

Trail clearing has resumed at Mittersill.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 18, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Trail clearing has resumed at Mittersill.



Interesting.


----------



## Newpylong (May 18, 2015)

The old T-bar went up  in the woods on the right correct?


----------



## benski (May 18, 2015)

Sugarbush regraded and widened the intersection at the top of the valley house.
https://www.facebook.com/Sugarbush.VT/posts/10153338115518384


----------



## BeefyBoy50 (May 18, 2015)

Trailboss- what do you know about the replacement to the Summit Chair at Solitude/ what are your opinions? Personally, I'll be excited that they are creating a way to lap upper honeycomb canyon in less than an hour, but I know some locals are less than enthused. I'm just interested to see how they plan on rerouting the lift, it'll have to go over some of those steep trails that come down from Powderhorn if they don't plan on building a lift with an angle station.
Also, at Snowbird, I thought there had been plans to replace mid-gad?


----------



## BeefyBoy50 (May 18, 2015)

Does anyone know any new news about West Bowl at Jay Peak? I always get excited over these big expansions and proposals, but it seems that due to restrictions and laws, the only changes happening these days are lift replacements and snow-making upgrades (not that these aren't also appreciated). I know money is always an issue, as is getting approval from legislators, but it would be awesome to finally see one of these master plans come to fruition.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 18, 2015)

BeefyBoy50 said:


> Trailboss- what do you know about the replacement to the Summit Chair at Solitude/ what are your opinions? Personally, I'll be excited that they are creating a way to lap upper honeycomb canyon in less than an hour, but I know some locals are less than enthused. I'm just interested to see how they plan on rerouting the lift, it'll have to go over some of those steep trails that come down from Powderhorn if they don't plan on building a lift with an angle station.
> Also, at Snowbird, I thought there had been plans to replace mid-gad?



Deer Valley has closed on their purchase of Solitude.  Before that sale was announced, Solitude announced that it would be replacing the Summit Double with a Doppelmayr HSQ.  Deer Valley has since said that they will proceed with the replacement of that lift and realign it such that it is easier to get to from the rest of the area.  They are also grading a new trail down to it from Apex I believe.  

Mid-Gad has been rumored for replacement for a long time.  Currently the Snowbird Master Plan calls for that area to see night skiing and the installation of a Cabriolet or Gondola to Mid-Gad using that route.  Those are long off though.  My sense is that they are pushing for Mary Ellen now--they built a service road to that area and took out the Hillary Step so that the traverse is much easier.


----------



## dlague (May 18, 2015)

BeefyBoy50 said:


> Does anyone know any new news about West Bowl at Jay Peak? I always get excited over these big expansions and proposals, but it seems that due to restrictions and laws, the only changes happening these days are lift replacements and snow-making upgrades (not that these aren't also appreciated). I know money is always an issue, as is getting approval from legislators, but it would be awesome to finally see one of these master plans come to fruition.



Jay's primary focus is in more non skiing activities.  They will be building the Recreation Center on Stateside which will have an arcade, ropes course, climbing wall and theater.


----------



## SIKSKIER (May 18, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> The old T-bar went up  in the woods on the right correct?


Google Earth


----------



## Puck it (May 18, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Google Earth


The plan is to cut more slope to the right of the old t bar line.  It looks like they left tree islands on the Facebook and just cleared the under growth.


----------



## Smellytele (May 18, 2015)

Pats peak rumor has it that the peak double will be replaced with another triple.


----------



## chuckstah (May 18, 2015)

Killington got their mulch!


----------



## xwhaler (May 18, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Pats peak rumor has it that the peak double will be replaced with another triple.



Capacity need or just getting a good deal on the triple and replacing the lift before ongoing maintenance costs get too high?
Pats is almost always pretty busy when I'm there but I hardly ever wait in lines.
That Peak double is awfully slow though so getting something faster would be nice on days the Vortex is not running.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 18, 2015)

Didn't Pats buy a couple chairs from Ascutney?  Could be just putting that to use.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 18, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Didn't Pats buy a couple chairs from Ascutney?  Could be just putting that to use.



I was wondering what they were doing with those chairs....


----------



## skiNEwhere (May 19, 2015)

Ok, not east but loveland is splitting chair 2 in half! About freaking time something was done. The former lift had a mid-load AND mid-unload station. This, combined with being a low intermediate lift caused a lot of stops, and often turned a 12 minute ride into 15. My number 1 most hated lift, glad to see something done about it.


----------



## Smellytele (May 19, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Didn't Pats buy a couple chairs from Ascutney?  Could be just putting that to use.



Yes and the peak double is the oldest lift on the mountain and was bought used as well. I was told though that it is in great shape and is in better condition than a lot newer lifts in the state.

and yes the triple is from Ascutney.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 19, 2015)

Hopefully it is faster than the Hurricane triple and becomes the primary lift.


----------



## machski (May 19, 2015)

Okemo is putting in the first of 2 quad chairs in timber creek this summer plus upgrading the chairs on Jackson gore express to bubbles (not sure if they will be heated but orange canopies to match)


----------



## SIKSKIER (May 19, 2015)

Puck it said:


> The plan is to cut more slope to the right of the old t bar line.  It looks like they left tree islands on the Facebook and just cleared the under growth.



Correct.You can see the island on the plan and clearly see how much further up they will be cutting if you compare my GE pic to this one.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (May 19, 2015)

Do you think there will be erosion problems?


----------



## Puck it (May 19, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Correct.You can see the island on the plan and clearly see how much further up they will be cutting if you compare my GE pic to this one.



Did you look at the Facebook page for the Mittersill Improvements?  One pic shows the old snowmaking ppes.


----------



## xwhaler (May 19, 2015)

machski said:


> Okemo is putting in the first of 2 quad chairs in timber creek this summer plus upgrading the chairs on Jackson gore express to bubbles (not sure if they will be heated but orange canopies to match)



Ugh, not good.....now the JG lift probably gets more traffic due to the novelty of the bubble chair. Currently that is my favorite pod on the mtn to lap and almost never has lines.


----------



## Cannonball (May 20, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Did you look at the Facebook page for the Mittersill *Improvements*?  One pic shows the old snowmaking ppes.



I think they need to reconsider using the word "improvements"


----------



## SIKSKIER (May 20, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Did you look at the Facebook page for the Mittersill Improvements?  One pic shows the old snowmaking ppes.


Ya those look like aluminum dont they?


----------



## Puck it (May 20, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Ya those look like aluminum dont they?


They do.  Hard to tell if it is piping or guns.  I never noticed them before.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 20, 2015)

Believe it or not some of the first systems had aluminum piping.  Ask Killington how that worked out for them.....


----------



## Newpylong (May 20, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/Mittersill...098781637269/1611854592361687/?type=3&theater

Top of the old T-Bar shack framed between cab and excavator arm?


----------



## dlague (May 27, 2015)

Waterville starts trail cutting on Green Peak

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=272


----------



## DoublePlanker (May 27, 2015)

dlague said:


> Waterville starts trail cutting on Green Peak
> 
> http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=272



It seems terrible to design a pod like this.  I understand $$$$.   But to have a triple servicing the entire pod while a HSQ services a subset seems awful. 

Better to have this expansion than not.


----------



## Newpylong (May 27, 2015)

So 1 decent looking trail and 4 others you would miss if you blinked?

Has anyone built a decently designed expansion pod recently? 

Burnt Ridge at Gore has potential if built out more.


----------



## xlr8r (May 27, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> So 1 decent looking trail and 4 others you would miss if you blinked?
> 
> Has anyone built a decently designed expansion pod recently?
> 
> Burnt Ridge at Gore has potential if built out more.



South Peak at Loon is probably the best new pod in new England built as of late.  It is well laid out for cruising with no intersections.  Jackson Gore at Okemo is ok as well.


----------



## ss20 (May 27, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> So 1 decent looking trail and 4 others you would miss if you blinked?
> 
> Has anyone built a decently designed expansion pod recently?
> 
> Burnt Ridge at Gore has potential if built out more.



South Peak at Loon is the only good pod.  A quiet pod opposite of the madhouse on the other side.  I was able to ski it in 2011.  Since then they've added trails and I've wanted to go back.

Jackson Gore is horrible, imo.  There's too much traffic on Limelight with everyone coming from the Okemo side.  Typically it's just Quantum Leap, Sunset, and Tuckered Out that get snowmaking and grooming, too little terrain for a hsq.  The intersection between Okemo and Jackson Gore is one of the most dangerous in Vermont.  

I'm being harsh because you'd think after 60 years the ski industry would know how to design a good trail pod.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 27, 2015)

Wildcat has only commented that they are working with the US Forrest service to try and develop more tree skiing.   They're looking to hire full time seasonal employees to help with this.   I asked if any of this would occur on the upper mountain and was told no, lower mountain only due to Bicknell's Thrush habitat.

I hate that god damned bird.


----------



## drjeff (May 27, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Wildcat has only commented that they are working with the US Forrest service to try and develop more tree skiing.   They're looking to hire full time seasonal employees to help with this.   I asked if any of this would occur on the upper mountain and was told no, lower mountain only due to Bicknell's Thrush habitat.
> 
> I hate that god damned bird.



If only "climate change" would cause that thing to have its habit move far away!!  :lol:


----------



## steamboat1 (May 27, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Wildcat has only commented that they are working with the US Forrest service to try and develop more tree skiing.   They're looking to hire full time seasonal employees to help with this.   I asked if any of this would occur on the upper mountain and was told no, lower mountain only due to Bicknell's Thrush habitat.
> 
> I hate that god damned bird.


You sound like the surf fishermen along the east coast who hate Piping Plovers because they close beach access during the summer due their babies. Don't hurt striped bass though, that's sacrilege.


----------



## yeggous (May 27, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> You sound like the surf fishermen along the east coast who hate Piping Plovers because they close beach access during the summer due their babies. Don't hurt striped bass though, that's sacrilege.



I hate both of those birds.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## steamboat1 (May 27, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I hate both of those birds.


I like birds, especially when they drop on my car.


----------



## dlague (May 27, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Wildcat has only commented that they are working with the US Forrest service to try and develop more tree skiing.   They're looking to hire full time seasonal employees to help with this.   I asked if any of this would occur on the upper mountain and was told no, lower mountain only due to Bicknell's Thrush habitat.
> 
> I hate that god damned bird.



if that bird is so rare then why the heck does it show up every where?


----------



## deadheadskier (May 27, 2015)

Only on ski mountains.  The tens of thousands of undeveloped acres in NH similar to the few acres I'd like to see gladed isn't good enough for that sacred bird I guess.


----------



## dlague (May 27, 2015)

Oh no its in this thread!


----------



## Puck it (May 27, 2015)

What was that frog in CA that f'ed up all the logging?


----------



## dlague (May 27, 2015)

Tenney posted on FB that the lift cables and ropes passed inspection.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 27, 2015)

dlague said:


> Tenney posted on FB that the lift cables and ropes passed inspection.



Hopefully no Bicknell Thrushes on the line. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## steamboat1 (May 28, 2015)

These little seabirds are cute. How can you not love a face like that?


----------



## Newpylong (May 28, 2015)

ss20 said:


> South Peak at Loon is the only good pod.  A quiet pod opposite of the madhouse on the other side.  I was able to ski it in 2011.  Since then they've added trails and I've wanted to go back.
> 
> Jackson Gore is horrible, imo.  There's too much traffic on Limelight with everyone coming from the Okemo side.  Typically it's just Quantum Leap, Sunset, and Tuckered Out that get snowmaking and grooming, too little terrain for a hsq.  The intersection between Okemo and Jackson Gore is one of the most dangerous in Vermont.
> 
> I'm being harsh because you'd think after 60 years the ski industry would know how to design a good trail pod.



I am with you - I find Jackson Gore F-.


----------



## dlague (May 28, 2015)

Puck it said:


> What was that frog in CA that f'ed up all the logging?



Thought that was Owls!


----------



## Puck it (May 28, 2015)

dlague said:


> Thought that was Owls!


I think that is true but I think there was a frog too.


----------



## spiderpig (May 28, 2015)

ss20 said:


> South Peak at Loon is the only good pod.  A quiet pod opposite of the madhouse on the other side.  I was able to ski it in 2011.  Since then they've added trails and I've wanted to go back.
> 
> Jackson Gore is horrible, imo.  There's too much traffic on Limelight with everyone coming from the Okemo side.  Typically it's just Quantum Leap, Sunset, and Tuckered Out that get snowmaking and grooming, too little terrain for a hsq.  The intersection between Okemo and Jackson Gore is one of the most dangerous in Vermont.
> 
> I'm being harsh because you'd think after 60 years the ski industry would know how to design a good trail pod.



It's good for advanced to expert skiers, mid-season when there's snow. Otherwise, yeah, three trails. The Coleman Brook Express did not need to be a HSQ; should have moved A or B quad over and popped the HSQ in at the main base, but I guess that would have looked bad when they tried to sell the real estate at Jackson Gore.

On a related note: Okemo is taking suggestions on Facebook for capital improvements (not sure if serious). That should go well. uke:


----------



## spiderpig (May 28, 2015)

machski said:


> Okemo is putting in the first of 2 quad chairs in timber creek this summer plus upgrading the chairs on Jackson gore express to bubbles (not sure if they will be heated but orange canopies to match)



What's this now? There is no Timber Creek and I think you made up the second part unless you have inside information.


----------



## WoodCore (May 28, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Jackson Gore is horrible, imo.  There's too much traffic on Limelight with everyone coming from the Okemo side.  Typically it's just Quantum Leap, Sunset, and Tuckered Out that get snowmaking and grooming, too little terrain for a hsq.  The intersection between Okemo and Jackson Gore is one of the most dangerous in Vermont.
> 
> I'm being harsh because you'd think after 60 years the ski industry would know how to design a good trail pod.




Don't forget that when the Jackson Gore pod was originally designed it included a base to summit lift (gondola) and additional trails feeding the base area from skiers right. IMHO that lift resolves a great deal of the high traffic areas, eliminates the danger level of disfunction junction and makes the JG express quad ski more like a distinct pod rather than the only way out of JG. I love the Limelight trail but dislike the traffic it see's. Other than early morning I prefer to use southern crossing to get over to JG.


----------



## xwhaler (May 28, 2015)

JG and South Face are my favorite pods when I ski Okemo.  JG is almost always ski on and a great way to escape the crowds not to mention an easier base area to work with


----------



## dlague (May 28, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> JG and South Face are my favorite pods when I ski Okemo.  JG is almost always ski on and a great way to escape the crowds not to mention an easier base area to work with



I agree with your comment on JG.  South Face is pretty light too and has fast runs!


----------



## machski (May 28, 2015)

spiderpig said:


> What's this now? There is no Timber Creek and I think you made up the second part unless you have inside information.



Timber Creek is a new development on the flank of the main mountain.  This is the first of 2 lifts planned for the real estate development (not too much in way of ski terrain, mostly just ski home trail stuff).


----------



## machski (May 29, 2015)

Here's a shot of the new village pod at Okemo.


----------



## Puck it (May 29, 2015)

machski said:


> Here's a shot of the new village pod at Okemo.



Why two lifts?  Looks like one could do it.


----------



## machski (May 29, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Why two lifts?  Looks like one could do it.



I think the second one will start at the lower left corner of the development.  Based on the drawing I agree, but the actual layout may have two "low points" in the left and right corners.  If you're going to charge big $ for the property, can't have any uphill walking to your lift!! LOL!


----------



## VTKilarney (May 29, 2015)

So this thread is about resort improvements for 2015?

Q Burke got rid of its management.  That's an improvement.  :flame:


----------



## DoublePlanker (May 29, 2015)

Can they get rid of the 'Q'?


----------



## VTKilarney (May 29, 2015)

DoublePlanker said:


> Can they get rid of the 'Q'?



It must be a multi year plan.  


.


----------



## yeggous (May 29, 2015)

DoublePlanker said:


> Can they get rid of the 'Q'?



God willing. One step at a time.


----------



## bigbog (May 29, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> .....that is my favorite pod on the mtn to lap and almost never has lines.



Resorts are in the business of making $$$....a lift with no lines is useless to a resort...X.
I know the feeling...but it's all about the bottom line these days.


----------



## Domeskier (May 29, 2015)

I get a little uncomfortable on lifts without lines -  feels like they're going to forget about me up there.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 29, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> I get a little uncomfortable on lifts without lines -  feels like they're going to forget about me up there.


----------



## catskillman (Jun 1, 2015)

Heard this weekend that Hunter is cutting a few new trails - nothing major.  connecting Hunter 1 to the main mt and supposedly something on the west side with Annapurna.  Details to follow


----------



## Puck it (Jun 1, 2015)

Thinking about upgrading the blender at the Zoomer Bar to a Margaritaville Machine.


----------



## xwhaler (Jun 1, 2015)

^^^^ That looks serious...love how you are taking the game to another level!


----------



## Puck it (Jun 1, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> ^^^^ That looks serious...love how you are taking the game to another level!


  That would be for the spring days of course.

For the cold days.

Bailey or Maple in Coffee


----------



## SIKSKIER (Jun 1, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Hopefully no Bicknell Thrushes on the line. 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Atcually,I dont think that bird is a problem there with the elevation under 2500 ft.


----------



## legalskier (Jun 1, 2015)

*Gore reopens the Hudson trail*

_“The route is as original. It will be old school, with the narrowest section around 35 feet wide. There is a really cool natural table top that we think skiers will love.”_

Full story at NYSB, with pics:
http://nyskiblog.com/north-creek-ski-bowl-hudson-trail-reopens/#more-30472


----------



## dlague (Jun 1, 2015)

Puck it said:


> That would be for the spring days of course.
> 
> For the cold days.
> 
> Bailey or Maple in Coffee



When does ski season start?


----------



## Puck it (Jun 2, 2015)

dlague said:


> When does ski season start?


Not soon enough.


----------



## dlague (Jun 2, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Not soon enough.



No kidding - the Word Association thread is the busiest right now!


----------



## drjeff (Jun 2, 2015)

dlague said:


> No kidding - the Word Association thread is the busiest right now!



I know! Its pure blasphemy that it's not the "random beers" thread isn't the most active right now!!  :beer:


----------



## dlague (Jun 2, 2015)

drjeff said:


> I know! Its pure blasphemy that it's not the "random beers" thread isn't the most active right now!!  :beer:



No kidding!  Some days it is so quiet here that I think I should visit every other day.  Ski season does need to start or more summer discussions need to take place.


----------



## Scruffy (Jun 2, 2015)

legalskier said:


> *Gore reopens the Hudson trail*
> 
> _“The route is as original. It will be old school, with the narrowest section around 35 feet wide. There is a really cool natural table top that we think skiers will love.”_
> 
> ...



That should be a cool trail.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 3, 2015)

dlague said:


> No kidding!  Some days it is so quiet here that I think I should visit every other day.  Ski season does need to start or more summer discussions need to take place.



Meh...summer discussions.

I try to stay in the hiking section.


----------



## drjeff (Jun 3, 2015)

dlague said:


> No kidding!  Some days it is so quiet here that I think I should visit every other day.  Ski season does need to start or more summer discussions need to take place.



I should start a thread about what the ladies in my office are currently discussing right now (and trying to get my opinion on...) What looks better on a woman in the summer, yoga pants or white linen pants? .... :argue: :lol:


----------



## marcski (Jun 3, 2015)

drjeff said:


> I should start a thread about what the ladies in my office are currently discussing right now (and trying to get my opinion on...) What looks better on a woman in the summer, yoga pants or white linen pants? .... :argue: :lol:



It depends on the particular woman.


----------



## dlague (Jun 3, 2015)

marcski said:


> It depends on the particular woman.



Yup yoga pants do not belong on many of those who are wearing them.  Not that heavy people should not be wearing them but really?


----------



## drjeff (Jun 3, 2015)

My default answer so far in the office today has been white linen yoga pants! :lol:  To which I seemed to think I heard a few of my staff mumbling something like "men are such pigs" in my vicinity!


----------



## Puck it (Jun 3, 2015)

dlague said:


> Yup yoga pants do not belong on many of those who are wearing them.  Not that heavy people should not be wearing them but really?


  Like fat guys on road bikes in all spandex!!!!!!!


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 3, 2015)

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20150603/NEWS01/706039837/0/FEATURES05


----------



## dlague (Jun 3, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20150603/NEWS01/706039837/0/FEATURES05



I am actually surprised that there has not been a ski area that covered a trail with Snowflex.  I know that Killingotn is not using Snowflex but a plastic bristle surface.  It is cool that they are putting that up. 

I would love to see resorts that have shorter base lifts implement a Snowflex run.  There is so much focus being placed on summer activities, this seems like a logical choice.


----------



## chuckstah (Jun 3, 2015)

Ski Ward in Mass has a summer park set up on something called Neveplast. $10 for an hour. May have to check it out some day. It is tiny though. Website says it is 250 feet long, and liftserved by a carpet I believe.


----------



## dlague (Jun 3, 2015)

*Sunapee Master Plan*

A draft decision (not final) with a compromise has been made.  However, the Friends of Sunapee (opposed to decision) have joined forces with The Sierra Club to fight it.



> “The Sierra Club shares the position of the Friends of Mount Sunapee. We feel that the exemplary natural forest protections should be applied to the expansion and the development should not be allowed to go forward,” said the Sierra Club’s Catherine Corkery. - See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/article/20150603/NEWHAMPSHIRE03/150609708#sthash.7VtVgCdx.dpuf


----------



## drjeff (Jun 3, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Like fat guys on road bikes in all spandex!!!!!!!



Hey now!  I'm going to resemble that remark for after work for about 2 hours and 35 miles tonight! ;-)


----------



## Puck it (Jun 3, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Hey now!  I'm going to resemble that remark for after work for about 2 hours and 35 miles tonight! ;-)


Loose MTB'ng stuff is way more comfortable. I will be wearing that tonight for a 10 mile jaunt thru the woods


----------



## drjeff (Jun 3, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Loose MTB'ng stuff is way more comfortable. I will be wearing that tonight for a 10 mile jaunt thru the woods



I tried my MTB gear on my road bike, but the flapping around of the fabric (as opposed to the flapping around of my fat pads  ) gets annoying when you're on a downhill descent at 30mph+ and I went back to my fitted road kit


----------



## Puck it (Jun 3, 2015)

drjeff said:


> I tried my MTB gear on my road bike, but the flapping around of the fabric (as opposed to the flapping around of my fat pads  ) gets annoying when you're on a downhill descent at 30mph+ and I went back to my fitted road kit



Like this!!!


----------



## dlague (Jun 3, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Loose MTB'ng stuff is way more comfortable. I will be wearing that tonight for a 10 mile jaunt thru the woods



Well I am going to sit around on my fat ass and do nothing!


----------



## Domeskier (Jun 3, 2015)

Mind if I join you guys?


----------



## Tin (Jun 4, 2015)

Any word on BEast's possible North Face? Still in the rumor mill I assume.


----------



## catsup948 (Jun 4, 2015)

Tin said:


> Any word on BEast's possible North Face? Still in the rumor mill I assume.



I'll be up there this weekend.  I'll ask what is going on.  It likely will be on the east face of the mountain.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Jun 5, 2015)

Where's my bike?


----------



## Tin (Jun 9, 2015)

catsup948 said:


> I'll be up there this weekend.  I'll ask what is going on.  It likely will be on the east face of the mountain.



Just have to keep hiking around and out a bit. :lol:


----------



## WoodCore (Jun 17, 2015)

Mohawk in CT is putting a major addition onto the base lodge! IMHO this is *way* overdue!!


----------



## ss20 (Jun 17, 2015)

WoodCore said:


> Mohawk in CT is putting a major addition onto the base lodge! IMHO this is *way* overdue!!



I'm usually all for progress but, this is tough to swallow.  They're ruining Walt's beautiful base lodge architecture.  No more wall of glass.  Damn shame.  That deck was awesome too.  Many memories made out there.  

I love that management has invested so much money over the past decade.  Four new lifts since 2008. Victor's Way.  The fan guns that line each trail.  Now this.  It's pretty awesome.


----------



## WoodCore (Jun 18, 2015)

A rendering and a couple more pictures of the progress were posted on the Mohawk Facebook page today......Still has the wall of glass.


----------



## spiderpig (Jun 21, 2015)

machski said:


> Timber Creek is a new development on the flank of the main mountain.  This is the first of 2 lifts planned for the real estate development (not too much in way of ski terrain, mostly just ski home trail stuff).



My point was, it's not called Timber Creek.

Okemo is posting some cryptic Facebook photos with great pairs. So they're adding two new things or something that's the same as something else already on the mountain?


----------



## yeggous (Jun 21, 2015)

spiderpig said:


> My point was, it's not called Timber Creek.
> 
> Okemo is posting some cryptic Facebook photos with great pairs. So they're adding two new things or something that's the same as something else already on the mountain?



I know nothing about this, but could they be replacing those two lifts in front of the lodge?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## slatham (Jun 22, 2015)

This might help solve the Okemo questions:

The developer, Timber Creek at Okemo, along with five partners, is planning to build South Face Village, which will connect to the existing Okemo ski resort in Ludlow. The new base will include two ski lifts, seven ski trails and a 208-unit residential planned community that will be able to house about 500 people. The estimated cost of the entire project, which will be built in phases and take more than 10 years to complete, will be in excess of $200 million, said Ted Rossi, owner and president of Rossi Group, which is the main investor behind Timber Creek at Okemo.


----------



## Jully (Jun 23, 2015)

Holy crap, saddleback has placed the Rangely Double drive terminal on sale. With no towers with it I'm guessing that means it'll be a fixed grip quad that replaces it reusing the towers. Maybe carpet loaded? Hopefully this happens this year.

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=282

http://www.resortboneyard.com/i/2004-doppelmayr-ctec--sprint/52778


----------



## Edd (Jun 23, 2015)

Jully said:


> Holy crap, saddleback has placed the Rangely Double drive terminal on sale. With no towers with it I'm guessing that means it'll be a fixed grip quad that replaces it reusing the towers. Maybe carpet loaded? Hopefully this happens this year.
> 
> http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=282
> 
> http://www.resortboneyard.com/i/2004-doppelmayr-ctec--sprint/52778



Wow!  I shouldn't get too excited without the next steps being announced, though. Seems like they would have said something if it were planned for next season.


----------



## WoodCore (Jun 23, 2015)

spiderpig said:


> Okemo is posting some cryptic Facebook photos with great pairs. So they're adding two new things or something that's the same as something else already on the mountain?




Perhaps it's another Orange Bubble Lift????


----------



## dlague (Jun 23, 2015)

It does create excitement though.


----------



## Puck it (Jun 23, 2015)

You heard it here first.  Zoomer Bar may be offering memberships thru Kickstarter.  Details being worked out now. Look for updates here.


----------



## dlague (Jun 23, 2015)

Puck it said:


> You heard it here first.  Zoomer Bar may be offering memberships thru Kickstarter.  Details being worked out now. Look for updates here.



Previous members grandfathered in!


----------



## spiderpig (Jun 23, 2015)

WoodCore said:


> Perhaps it's another Orange Bubble Lift????



ding ding ding

I thought I might have read/heard this rumor somewhere, but didn't add that because I couldn't recall where. They are using a four-person bubble in place of the Jackson Gore Express. Also named the South Face Village chair the Sunshine Quad, fixed grip, which makes me wonder if the old Jackson Gore lift is in the plans to replace the Green Ridge Triple, as I heard rumors about replacing the latter a couple years ago. Or it could be going to the new Sunapee area.

http://www.okemo.com/mountain-info/whats-new/

I'm lookin forward to that $100 ticket in a couple years.


----------



## Puck it (Jun 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> Previous members grandfathered in!


The improvements are going to be pricey. Limited membership though.


----------



## drjeff (Jun 23, 2015)

Here's a picture that Mount Snow put up on their FB page today of some of the work going on in conjunction with their West Lake Snowmaking project, scheduled for completion for the start of the '16-'17 season.

The trench being excavated isn't part of what will be West Lake proper, but for access for the pipes that will be used to both fill and draw from the 12 acre lake when its done.  To put it in perspective how BIG this is.  Looking up the specs of that Caterpillar 740B dump truck being loaded, it has a height of about 12 and a half feet from the base of the wheels to the top of the drivers cabin!


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 23, 2015)

Jully said:


> Holy crap, saddleback has placed the Rangely Double drive terminal on sale. With no towers with it I'm guessing that means it'll be a fixed grip quad that replaces it reusing the towers. Maybe carpet loaded? Hopefully this happens this year.
> 
> http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=282
> 
> http://www.resortboneyard.com/i/2004-doppelmayr-ctec--sprint/52778



Looks like Stowe is selling off its old doubles.  

http://www.resortboneyard.com/l/lifts/aerial


----------



## dlague (Jun 23, 2015)

Puck it said:


> The improvements are going to be pricey. Limited membership though.



As long as the blender can still be used!


----------



## machski (Jun 24, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Looks like Stowe is selling off its old doubles.
> 
> http://www.resortboneyard.com/l/lifts/aerial



Yeah, the ones over at the base of Spruce now that they are redundant.  You had me excited at first thinking it was toll house and lookout.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 24, 2015)

I for one am Happy that the Lookout remains.  Hope it stays as is for a long time.   I guarantee if they replace that lift they will destroy the character of the Lookout trail


----------



## machski (Jun 24, 2015)

Here's a look at the new village, lift and trail(s) at Okemo


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 24, 2015)

machski said:


> Yeah, the ones over at the base of Spruce now that they are redundant.  You had me excited at first thinking it was toll house and lookout.



I imagine that those are next.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 24, 2015)

machski said:


> Here's a look at the new village, lift and trail(s) at Okemo



I think that this was addressed earlier, but that looks like they are going to add another lift on the left for that small pod.


----------



## machski (Jun 24, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> I think that this was addressed earlier, but that looks like they are going to add another lift on the left for that small pod.



Yeah, that is how I undertsand the plan to be.  2 lifts for this real estate pod at full buildout.


----------



## mbedle (Jun 25, 2015)

Can't see the toll house or the lookout being updated anytime soon. Both are barely used and I can't remember seeing the double run that much mid week last year.


----------



## Newpylong (Jun 25, 2015)

Toll House is weird - what is it's purpose? For the condos? How often can it be used without snowmaking? Would think having it on Easy Mile would be a no brainer.


----------



## ss20 (Jun 25, 2015)

mbedle said:


> Can't see the toll house or the lookout being updated anytime soon. Both are barely used and I can't remember seeing the double run that much mid week last year.



I can see Lookout getting replaced in 3-5 years.  True that it's only been used on the weekends, but it's from 1979.  Toll House will be around a lot longer.  Doppelmyer parts (Toll House) area lot easier to find than Riblet parts (Lookout).


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

Why?  It runs fine, takes pressure off the Forerunner when needed and offers a back up option during high winds.

I bet they replace the triple with a HSQ before the Lookout chair.  The triple services the majority of the intermediate terrain and the parks.  More capacity could be justified off that lift than the double


----------



## mbedle (Jun 25, 2015)

Good point with the wind holds and lookout. As far as the Toll House - it primarily still there for the condos but I think mostly the historical factor. Most people that stay at the condos and lodge use the free taxi service and get dropped off at the main base.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 25, 2015)

If they ever replace the triple or lookout I hope they extend the base terminals down to the same level as the base lodge. I hate climbing those God awful stairs & then needing to walk or skate over to the Forerunner. Someone once said that the old Mansfield single chair started from the parking lot although I don't recall that myself. My recollection is both the single & double chairs started from the same point with the single terminating just a little below the double. This picture would corroborate my recollection even though the double wasn't installed yet.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

One of my housemates in Stowe during the winter of 96 got fired working as a lifty working the Toll House for falling asleep on the job.  He wasn't the only one that season.    It was not uncommon for an hour or more to go by with no riders.   I bet that's the least utilized chair in New England.


----------



## mbedle (Jun 25, 2015)

You are correct in that the single did not terminate in the parking lot. Can't agree with you more about that stupid walk up the hill every morning!!!! Kills me every time. At least it get the legs moving before the first run!


----------



## ss20 (Jun 25, 2015)

I always wonder how many people have lost control and hit the base lodge.


----------



## mbedle (Jun 25, 2015)

LOL - not sure how many, can't say I've seen any. Pretty sure the racks would stop them.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

Given the clientele, I'm somewhat surprised that Steaux hasn't put in a covered escalator from the Mansfield lodge up to the chairs.

I always park middle gondi parking lot anyways though.  Ski in, ski out parking.  Best ski area parking lot in the east if you don't mind booting up at your car.


----------



## ss20 (Jun 25, 2015)

mbedle said:


> LOL - not sure how many, can't say I've seen any. Pretty sure the racks would stop them.



If an eastern Massachusetts or Catskills resort had that type of setup I'd setup a lawn chair out front and watch the carnage.


----------



## mbedle (Jun 25, 2015)

ss20 said:


> If an eastern Massachusetts or Catskills resort had that type of setup I'd setup a lawn chair out front and watch the carnage.



FUNNY!!!! Covered escalator outside of Mansfield, come on, that only happens on the spruce side. lol


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I always park middle gondi parking lot anyways though.  Ski in, ski out parking.  Best ski area parking lot in the east if you don't mind booting up at your car.


Couldn't you park at Midway & boot up in there?


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

Yes you can, but the middle lot is better for access from the Mansfield side for returning back to your car.   

You can also grab a spot in the middle lot a bit later in the morning than the upper or lower.


----------



## Newpylong (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Why?  It runs fine, takes pressure off the Forerunner when needed and offers a back up option during high winds.
> 
> I bet they replace the triple with a HSQ before the Lookout chair.  The triple services the majority of the intermediate terrain and the parks.  More capacity could be justified off that lift than the double



Yeah totally - no brainer. More terrain over there and more snowmaking. Also further from Forerunner.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 25, 2015)

Heard rumors that Stowe is going to offer mountain biking off the triple starting next year.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I always park middle gondi parking lot anyways though.  Ski in, ski out parking.  Best ski area parking lot in the east if you don't mind booting up at your car.



My usual parking slopeside is pretty sweet also.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

New bottom terminal for the King Pine lift at Sugarloaf

http://sugarloaf.com/media-room/press-releases/capital-improvements-x1761

On the one hand, this is good as it fixes the safety issue.  On the other hand, that kind of investment likely means the rumored HSQ for that terrain pod is likely not going to happen for quite sometime.   I suppose they could move the King Pine and it's new terminal.  I just wouldn't expect that anytime soon after spending $800K on the fix.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> New bottom terminal for the King Pine lift at Sugarloaf
> 
> http://sugarloaf.com/media-room/press-releases/capital-improvements-x1761
> 
> On the one hand, this is good as it fixes the safety issue.  On the other hand, that kind of investment likely means the rumored HSQ for that terrain pod is likely not going to happen for quite sometime.   I suppose they could move the King Pine and it's new terminal.  I just wouldn't expect that anytime soon after spending $800K on the fix.



Love Sugarloaf, but I read that press release with a skeptical, and maybe cynical, view considering what has happened as of late.  First, trying to spin these maintenance issues as improvements is a bit of a stretch for me.  This seemed particularly odd:



> Sugarloaf will also invest in many of its other lift this summer, with roughly $500,000 in upgrades scheduled for the Timberline, Double Runner, West Mountain, Skidway, Sawduster, and Snubber lifts.
> 
> The work on these lifts will upgrade all braking and anti-rollback systems to newer technologies. While all of Sugarloaf's lifts meet manufacturer specifications and are certified by lift engineers and inspectors each year, many feature older designs that will be updated to modern, automated systems.



Translation: they are really old lifts and we needed to update them but now have no choice.  

As to King Pine, saying it will be a "new lift" is pretty lame.  Again, it was a forced change.  

I wonder if it will be a conveyor lift.  

And it seems lame to brag about the 30-person hot tub as being one of the biggest improvements under their 2020 plan.  

Sorry, just keeping it real.

The one thing that did interest me was the special "lift maintenance" page they will have and their "trouble line" for folks to call.  I don't know of any resort that has this sort of page.  Someone is really trying to fix their troubled image.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

Agreed.  Pretty easy to read between the lines.  

I'm guessing the whole CNL potentially selling the area has got their hands tied some.  Maybe next year the fireworks/improvements will be a bit more impressive.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 25, 2015)

Again, love Sugarloaf and have been very happy with Boyne, but they really have effed up with Sugarloaf's lifts.


----------



## Jully (Jun 25, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> As to King Pine, saying it will be a "new lift" is pretty lame.  Again, it was a forced change.
> 
> I wonder if it will be a conveyor lift.
> 
> The one thing that did interest me was the special "lift maintenance" page they will have and their "trouble line" for folks to call.  I don't know of any resort that has this sort of page.  Someone is really trying to fix their troubled image.



Definitely not ideal. Though that terminal is typically used in conveyor systems. Sugarloaf loves skyline to my knowledge and so hopefully they do make it a conveyor. 

Definitely an off year in terms of improvements for sure. Not sure if there will be improved snowmaking either unfortunately.

However, if they make KP a conveyor load I personally wouldn't even care if it was the permanent replacement. In fact, I'd be stoked! However, KP was never going to be eliminated from the lift pool, it was destined to replace the double runners, so still a totally viable possibility. 

I gotta say I think the website idea is great. Totally unorthodox it would seem, but I love the idea of trying to repair their image. I have hopes it'll work. I don't think SL/Boyne is going to ever let anything like this year's incident happen again. Twice in five years is a little worrysome, but three times in 7-10 years would be a death sentence.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Why?  It runs fine, takes pressure off the Forerunner when needed and offers a back up option during high winds.
> 
> I bet they replace the triple with a HSQ before the Lookout chair.  The triple services the majority of the intermediate terrain and the parks.  More capacity could be justified off that lift than the double



I am a big fan of the Lookout. Same great terrain and my choice when the wind sucks or the Forerunner is out of control.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> New bottom terminal for the King Pine lift at Sugarloaf
> 
> http://sugarloaf.com/media-room/press-releases/capital-improvements-x1761
> 
> On the one hand, this is good as it fixes the safety issue.  On the other hand, that kind of investment likely means the rumored HSQ for that terrain pod is likely not going to happen for quite sometime.   I suppose they could move the King Pine and it's new terminal.  I just wouldn't expect that anytime soon after spending $800K on the fix.


Maybe Saddleback is interested in the old bottom terminal from King Pine. Heard they have the bottom terminal of the Rangeley double up for sale.


----------



## dlague (Jun 25, 2015)

Not big news but Tenney amongst everything they are doing just bulldozed the front steps because they were concerned about safety.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 25, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm guessing the whole CNL potentially selling the area has got their hands tied some.  Maybe next year the fireworks/improvements will be a bit more impressive.


Doesn't CNL also own Okemo among others? Doesn't seem to be affecting their lift & resort improvements.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

Okemo's projects are not entirely financed by the resort operators.  The the new lift and development is a partnership with an outside developer.  I'm guessing Okemo's commitment of a trail and chairlift for the Southface area has been planned for many years prior to CNL making their divestment decisions.

So, really their investment in putting a Bubble on Jackson Gore is probably a similar investment as Sugarloaf is making with their lifts.  

They're two different companies though.  Meullers have always been one of the most aggressive investors in their property.  That's been the case for 30 years.  Boyne has been much more cautious.  It should be no surprise that their investment is conservative at Sugarloaf.   I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the uncertainty regarding CNL might have had an affect on things.   They had been talking HSQ for King Pine for a few years.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 25, 2015)

dlague said:


> Not big news but Tenney amongst everything they are doing just bulldozed the front steps because they were concerned about safety.



just looked at the picture.  I completely remember busting my ass on those stairs.  :lol:  The old owners weren't able to keep the snow and ice from flowing onto those stairs. 

So, while funny to call it an improvement, it really is.  hah


----------



## EPB (Jun 26, 2015)

As I recall, Sugarloaf had recently planned to move the King Pine chair down to the lower mountain to replace the Double Runner chairs (and replace KP with the longer former Kanc high speed lift from Loon). This doesn't have to change anything and could even be viewed as progress toward that goal. That terminal will presumably have a significant impact on the life of that lift and the carpet loading system (assuming they build it/can build it if the lift is moved) would be nice upgrade for the Double Runner area, as it seems like a decent amount of beginners use those lifts.


----------



## Jully (Jun 26, 2015)

Former Kanc high speed lift from Loon? I'd heard about the Double Runner replacement, but nothing about the Kanc HSQ. What's happening to the Kanc quad?


----------



## EPB (Jun 26, 2015)

I remember hearing that there was a medium run plan to replace that lift with a six pack, but this was a couple years ago now and might not be a serious plan anyway


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 26, 2015)

If they put in a six there, I'd think it would make the most sense to use the Kanc to replace the seven brothers chair to take pressure off the gondola


----------



## EPB (Jun 26, 2015)

Yeah that gondola is ridiculous capacity wise for such a busy place. It's also 25+ years old now and I thought it had been a candidate to get moved to that expansion between Bucksaw and west mountain that never happened. Maybe I've just spent too much time lurking on the Sugarloaf today forum for my own good...


----------



## Jully (Jun 26, 2015)

I remember that expansion plan. Didn't realize they wanted the Loon gondola to go there. I know that after 2020 Sugarloaf does want to reconsider getting a base to summit lift. Complete opposite of Sugarbush in VT. They've said time and again that they are done with base to summit lifts. 

Would the seven brother lift really get used that much more if it was a HSQ? Maybe moving the Kanc quad to SL is the best plan for it. That would be pretty peachy


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 26, 2015)

If the Seven Brothers was replaced with a HSQ, many, many people would ride it to get to the North Peak area.   It would take a lot of pressure off the Gondola.  

Would I personally rather see it deployed in some capacity at Sugarloaf?  You bet.  Just don't see Boyne moving a valuable lift assert away from an area that still could desperately use the capacity


----------



## Highway Star (Jun 26, 2015)

*Killington = Fail.*


----------



## Tin (Jun 26, 2015)

Highway Star said:


> *Killington = Fail.*


----------



## mbedle (Jun 29, 2015)

Jully said:


> I remember that expansion plan. Didn't realize they wanted the Loon gondola to go there. I know that after 2020 Sugarloaf does want to reconsider getting a base to summit lift. Complete opposite of Sugarbush in VT. They've said time and again that they are done with base to summit lifts.
> 
> Would the seven brother lift really get used that much more if it was a HSQ? Maybe moving the Kanc quad to SL is the best plan for it. That would be pretty peachy



Wonder why Sugarbush is done with base to summit lifts. Seems to be a little short sighted on their part. Would think a base to summit at mount ellen would be pretty nice. Also wondering why the got rid of the gondola in the first place, other than it was pretty old.


----------



## Jully (Jun 29, 2015)

Win considers it expensive and inefficient. The uphill capacity would be lower than the current set up they have. It would cost a ton to run and have wind problems frequently. Furthermore the lift would not access terrain that everyone wants to ski, in fact, very few people want to ski from HG down to the base, and it wouldn't be as effective at crowd dispersal as the current lift arrangement is. 

All good reasons for sure, nothing I can really say I disagree with, but Sugarloaf wants one still because they think it brings the mountain together and provides an important symbol


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm guessing wind holds is the answer to both of those questions.  By breaking the mountain up into Upper and Lower areas, they can still offer a decent amount of terrain when the summits are closed due to wind.  The topography at Sugarbush lends itself very well to be a "pod" type mountain.   I'm not a fan of the run outs at either North or South, so seldom do I ski the mountain top to bottom.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 29, 2015)

mbedle said:


> Wonder why Sugarbush is done with base to summit lifts. Seems to be a little short sighted on their part. Would think a base to summit at mount ellen would be pretty nice. Also wondering why the got rid of the gondola in the first place, other than it was pretty old.



Mt. Ellen already has pretty close to a base to summit lift in the North Ridge Express. You miss having to ski the run out to the bottom every run which is a good thing. Only downside is it doesn't go all the way to the peak so you have to use the Summit quad to access Black Diamond & upper FIS. Everything else is accessible from the NRE. I think it's a pretty good set up. Only thing I'd like to see is a lift & trail expansion in the area of lower FIS. It's a great trail but a bitch to hike out of.

My understanding is the top gondola terminal was hit by lightning & burned. That's why they got rid of the gondola at Lincoln Peak. Only thing I'd like to see there is either a new Heavens Gate lift that goes a tad higher eliminating the need to climb the hill to get to Organgrinder & Jester or do something at the top of the present lift to eliminate what I call herring bone hill.


----------



## Jully (Jun 29, 2015)

I believe when the gondola was removed Sugarbush agreed in a deal with the forest service to not have a lift terminate any higher than the current Heavens Gate chair


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 29, 2015)

Jully said:


> I believe when the gondola was removed Sugarbush agreed in a deal with the forest service to not have a lift terminate any higher than the current Heavens Gate chair



Perhaps some regrading would solve the problem. In fact I think Win said he would try to do just that in one of the AZ questions a couple of years ago. I haven't noticed any change.


----------



## Jully (Jun 29, 2015)

Regrading would totally work and I think I remember hearing that Win did want to do that a few years back. I doubt it's against whatever agreement they have with the forest service.

Maybe that will be addressed this upcoming season after completing valley house/ the regrading of the traverse.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 29, 2015)

Found Wins answer:

*Win:* This would be challenging because it would likely  require blasting and impacting the ridgeline environment which would be  difficult to get approved. However,  we can do a better job of making more snow there and pushing it around  to make the grade better up to Organgrinder and Jester.


----------



## benski (Jun 29, 2015)

Another problem with a top to bottom at lp it would create a lot of traffic on upper jester and lower downspout. Upper jester already is near capacity. As for mt Ellen north ridge is top to bottom for people who see the runout as a pain in the neck and assume anything hire up is icy on normal day. 

Summit and gmx could be combined into one gondola with a mid station. You could also do the same with north Lynx and gatehouse. I would prefer they leave it the way it is and focus on more trails and lifts from now on unless north ridge becomes a problem next year. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## dlague (Jun 29, 2015)

I read much of what is being discuss regarding Sugarbush and T2B lift.  I personally like their setup since it is very POD driven.  the only lift combo that sucks IMO is the Gate House to North Lynx.  I know some will argue they they are not true PODS so for me they are since it allows me to ski sections at a time.  I also think that it prevents some run from getting tracked out or crapped off early.  As mentioned earlier Upper Jester would worse than it is now.  When it is cold, only the hardcore ski Heaven's Gate and preserves those runs.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 29, 2015)

Re:  Sugarbush

As folks have said--wind, cost, traffic issues, etc. are reasons NOT to have a top-to-bottom lift.  If you think about it, most ski areas actually DON'T have a single top-to-bottom lift in order to spread out traffic and to allow folks to ski "more" of the mountain.  A lot of skiers are not like us...and don't want to ski one big long run.


----------



## cdskier (Jun 29, 2015)

I too love Sugarbush's lift setup the way it is. I'm not a fan of top to bottom lifts in general. I much prefer that the mountain be split up into separate pods as it is today. As for the top of Heaven's Gate, there's always cutting through the woods to get to OG if you don't want to make that short hike up to the OG headwall. Perhaps sometime in the future I'd like to see more trails at SB (I saw some crazy studies and plans done years ago on different possibilities for expansions). Right now I'm pretty happy with the on-mountain status once the VH lift replacement is complete. I could do without them building any more of those high end slopeside developments though like Gadd Brook...


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 29, 2015)

Kind of a catch 22 situation at Sugarbush.  You need the real estate developments to finance new lifts, snowmaking and trail expansion.  Part of the reason why I love Wildcat and Cannon so much is there's no slope side development, so I get what you're saying.  Well there is at Mittersill, but it's not in the same vain as most 2000 vert ski areas in the East.  The penalty for not having that bed base and income from the sales of the real estate is older equipment at those areas. 

I'd trade some condos for a lift and trails down lower FIS and up above Inverness.


----------



## cdskier (Jun 29, 2015)

Actually right now I think the profits from sales of the new condos are still going to pay back a number of EB-5 investors from a number of years ago. So not really going to help fund anything new on the mountain directly, but it is still obviously an obligation that SB has to pay off so from that perspective I don't blame them for building new condos. Doesn't mean I have to like it though 

The full build out plans for all the new condos they eventually wanted to build are in the ACT 250 submissions somewhere. I saw them a couple weeks ago. If they get to build all those out, it definitely makes the mountain too "upscale" for my tastes. I'd love to see more "affordable" condos built that a more normal person could afford (although I realize that's not likely to happen as that simply isn't profitable).


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 30, 2015)

They can build all the condo's they want. Just leave me somewhere to park within a reasonable distance & run the lifts. Not asking for much.  I'm a simple guy.

Time to buy a condo at the Bush was 93/94 before ASC came in. Practically were giving them away. Kick myself in the ass for not doing it at the time. Place was bankrupt.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 30, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Re:  Sugarbush
> 
> As folks have said--wind, cost, traffic issues, etc. are reasons NOT to have a top-to-bottom lift.  *If you think about it, most ski areas actually DON'T have a single top-to-bottom lift* in order to spread out traffic and to allow folks to ski "more" of the mountain.  A lot of skiers are not like us...and don't want to ski one big long run.


You're kidding me right? Most mountains do have top to bottom lifts in VT.. Mountains that don't are in the minority.

Even your beloved Snowbird has a top to bottom lift.

Lets see in VT: Mt. Snow, Stratton, Bromley, Magic, Killington, Middlebury, Mad River, Bolton, Stowe, Smuggs & Jay. How many do not? Okemo, Pico, Sugarbush, Burke. Heritage is a wash with Plymouth Notch. What's that leave, Cochrans? Even Suicide Six & Queechie are top to bottom.

If we go NELSAP there were even more.


----------



## bigbob (Jun 30, 2015)

Stemie, show me where Killington currently has a top to bottom lift. Killington had a top to bottom, I am talking the base of Skyship to the peak, the first gondola.


----------



## steamboat1 (Jun 30, 2015)

bigbob said:


> Stemie, show me where Killington currently has a top to bottom lift. Killington had a top to bottom, I am talking the base of Skyship to the peak, the first gondola.


I don't consider Skyeship the base. It's only open 3 months a year tops. Base areas at Killington are K-1, Snowdon, Ramshead all which have top to bottom lifts.Yes I know Ramshead doesn't go to the top anymore. Neither do any of the lifts at Stowe. Still top to bottom in my book. When Killington opens early season when do you consider them to have top to bottom skiing? When they open to K-1 base or when they open to Rt.4? If it's the latter K doesn't have T2B skiing until mid January.


----------



## slatham (Jun 30, 2015)

I don't view Killington as having a base to summit lift. Also, Sugarbush is 2 distinct mountains, neither with base to summit. 

So I think its more evenly split, especially when you look at the larger mountains.


----------



## HowieT2 (Jun 30, 2015)

I'm a big fan of the pod setup at SB.  for the most part, I only take a base lift once in the morning and once after lunch.  The upper mtn lift setup lets me do laps thereby avoiding the run outs and lift lines.  also has a tendency to keep those less skilled off the more advanced terrain.
as for the shuffle up from the heavens gate, as previously mentioned, there is a a short cut through the woods to get to organgrinder just below the lift shack that obviates the need to go up.


----------



## VTKilarney (Jun 30, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> They can build all the condo's they want. Just leave me somewhere to park within a reasonable distance & run the lifts. Not asking for much.  I'm a simple guy.
> 
> Time to buy a condo at the Bush was 93/94 before ASC came in. Practically were giving them away. Kick myself in the ass for not doing it at the time. Place was bankrupt.



I had an opportunity to buy one around that time fir DIRT cheap.  I'm kicking myself for not doing it.  


.


----------



## dlague (Jun 30, 2015)

My uncle along with, my dad, brother-in-law and myself tried to bid 500,000 for 20 units during the Burke Foreclosure in the 1990's and were unsuccessful.  My uncle wanted to bid $25,000 for each which probably would have sealed the deal.  Hind sight is always 20/20.


----------



## ThinkSnow (Jun 30, 2015)

HowieT2 said:


> I'm a big fan of the pod setup at SB.  for the most part, I only take a base lift once in the morning and once after lunch.  The upper mtn lift setup lets me do laps thereby avoiding the run outs and lift lines.  also has a tendency to keep those less skilled off the more advanced terrain.
> as for the shuffle up from the heavens gate, as previously mentioned, there is a a short cut through the woods to get to organgrinder just below the lift shack that obviates the need to go up.



+1

Also, the shuffle up from HG and transition from GH to NLT also helps slow down those less skilled skiers (those in favor of regrading the area).


----------



## dlague (Jun 30, 2015)

slatham said:


> I don't view Killington as having a base to summit lift. Also, Sugarbush is 2 distinct mountains, neither with base to summit.
> 
> So I think its more evenly split, especially when you look at the larger mountains.



I find those areas that have base to summit lifts also have huge lines at those very lifts.  At least if the lifts are at different elevations, the lines are spread out.


----------



## catsup948 (Jun 30, 2015)

Berkshire East will not be expanding skiing terrain this summer.  Mountain bike trail building is taking precedent.  The bike park at Berkshire East is going to be very special from what I hear.


----------



## mbedle (Jun 30, 2015)

Ignoring the typical run outs, I wondering if you truly get in more skiing lapping an upper lift with smaller lift lines or lapping the entire mountain with a longer lift line at the bottom. Now, if you are someone that only wants to ski the steeper upper parts of the mountain, than having the mid mountain lifts makes perfect sense. I guess what I was getting at with stating that I thought sugarbush should have one is it offers the option to ski the entire vertical of the mountain. I wasn't stating that they shouldn't have the mid mountain lifts, just the addition of a base to top lift would be nice (for some skiers).


----------



## cdskier (Jun 30, 2015)

mbedle said:


> I guess what I was getting at with stating that I thought sugarbush should have one is it offers the option to ski the entire vertical of the mountain.



To be fair, you CAN ski the entire vertical of SB as once you get to the top there's nothing to stop you from skiing all the way to the base in one shot  You just can't lap that vertical over and over with only 1 lift (which many people I know have no interest in doing anyway). The lack of a mid-mountain lift was one of my biggest complaints about Stowe. I see no point in skiing the bottom 1/3-1/2 of the mountain there and then having to wait in long lines at the base to get back up to the terrain I really am interested in.


----------



## cdskier (Jun 30, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I had an opportunity to buy one around that time fir DIRT cheap.  I'm kicking myself for not doing it.
> 
> 
> .



Existing condos in some of the older complexes in the area are probably still pretty reasonable (maybe not dirt cheap, but reasonable). I haven't checked prices today, but 5 years ago when I bought my condo I was happy with what I paid.  The new stuff is what is insane.


----------



## Jully (Jun 30, 2015)

catsup948 said:


> Berkshire East will not be expanding skiing terrain this summer.  Mountain bike trail building is taking precedent.  The bike park at Berkshire East is going to be very special from what I hear.



Dang. Was looking forward to a new expansion. Bike park is going to be pretty awesome though


----------



## benski (Jun 30, 2015)

HowieT2 said:


> I'm a big fan of the pod setup at SB.  for the most part, I only take a base lift once in the morning and once after lunch.  The upper mtn lift setup lets me do laps thereby avoiding the run outs and lift lines.  also has a tendency to keep those less skilled off the more advanced terrain.
> as for the shuffle up from the heavens gate, as previously mentioned, there is a a short cut through the woods to get to organgrinder just below the lift shack that obviates the need to go up.


The cut is sometimes closed due to people shooting out of the end. 



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## dlague (Jul 1, 2015)

mbedle said:


> Ignoring the typical run outs, I wondering if you truly get in more skiing lapping an upper lift with smaller lift lines or lapping the entire mountain with a longer lift line at the bottom. Now, if you are someone that only wants to ski the steeper upper parts of the mountain, than having the mid mountain lifts makes perfect sense. I guess what I was getting at with stating that I thought sugarbush should have one is it offers the option to ski the entire vertical of the mountain. I wasn't stating that they shouldn't have the mid mountain lifts, just the addition of a base to top lift would be nice (for some skiers).



Well if we use K-1 Gondola as an example - the line line is ridiculous, the run out from the Canyon is boring, Bunny Buster always has heavy traffic, and the top section is a flat run on Great Northern so the sweet spot is the Canyon trails (for the most part) and for all intensive purposes - the Canyon Quad is all you need there.  The summit doe not buy you much.

In the case of SB, if there is a base to summit chair then more beginner/intermediates would ride the lift adding the wrong kind of traffic that might be temped to ski Rip Cord, Paradise and Organgrinder, not to mention like someone mentioned earlier, Jester would get skied off even faster.  Also there are no real beginner trails from the summit.


----------



## dlague (Jul 1, 2015)

HowieT2 said:


> I'm a big fan of the pod setup at SB.  for the most part, I only take a base lift once in the morning and once after lunch.  The upper mtn lift setup lets me do laps thereby avoiding the run outs and lift lines.  also has a tendency to keep those less skilled off the more advanced terrain.
> as for the shuffle up from the heavens gate, as previously mentioned, there is a a short cut through the woods to get to organgrinder just below the lift shack that obviates the need to go up.





benski said:


> The cut is sometimes closed due to people shooting out of the end.



That cut through was open on the last weekend of the season - much easier way!


----------



## steamboat1 (Jul 1, 2015)

dlague said:


> Well if we use K-1 Gondola as an example - the line line is ridiculous, the run out from the Canyon is boring, Bunny Buster always has heavy traffic, *and the top section is a flat run on Great Northern* so the sweet spot is the Canyon trails (for the most part) and for all intensive purposes - the Canyon Quad is all you need there.  *The summit doe not buy you much.*


The summit buys you upper Catwalk, upper Downdraft, upper Cascade, upper Escapade, & Helter Skelter. Not exactly terrain to sneeze at. It's your choice if you only use upper Great Northern.


----------



## dlague (Jul 1, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> The summit buys you upper Catwalk, upper Downdraft, upper Cascade, upper Escapade, & Helter Skelter. Not exactly terrain to sneeze at. It's your choice if you only use upper Great Northern.



Still do not think it is worth it!  Never been on Helter Skelter or Catwalk but have been on the others.

Speaking of Catwalk - why do these people insist on skiing where they can not - check this guy out!


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 1, 2015)

Never skied Catwalk?  One of my favorites at Killington.  Definitely worth the small hike.


----------



## WWF-VT (Jul 1, 2015)

dlague said:


> That cut through was open on the last weekend of the season - much easier way!



I can't beiieve that people complain about the 30 second uphill shuffle at the top of the Heavens Gate lift


----------



## steamboat1 (Jul 1, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> I can't beiieve that people complain about the 30 second uphill shuffle at the top of the Heavens Gate lift


Look what Stowe did with the new Forerunner chair. It now goes to a higher point so you don't have to climb to get to Nosedive anymore.


----------



## cdskier (Jul 1, 2015)

benski said:


> The cut is sometimes closed due to people shooting out of the end.



Really? I've never seen it closed. I'm up HG pretty much at least a few times every weekend unless it is on wind hold or I head over to ME. Even if I head to ME one day, I'm still usually at LP the other day (or 2 if I take a long weekend).

I do worry about the exit onto OG sometimes though as the visibility uphill isn't great until you're pretty much onto OG. I've often wondered if anyone ever ran someone over shooting out of that spot.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 1, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> I can't beiieve that people complain about the 30 second uphill shuffle at the top of the Heavens Gate lift



It really isn't bad at all.   A little exercise is good


----------



## JimG. (Jul 1, 2015)

dlague said:


> Still do not think it is worth it!  Never been on Helter Skelter or Catwalk but have been on the others.
> 
> Speaking of Catwalk - why do these people insist on skiing where they can not - check this guy out!



What's amazing is that they video and post their "descent".


----------



## benski (Jul 1, 2015)

cdskier said:


> Really? I've never seen it closed. I'm up HG pretty much at least a few times every weekend unless it is on wind hold or I head over to ME. Even if I head to ME one day, I'm still usually at LP the other day (or 2 if I take a long weekend).
> 
> I do worry about the exit onto OG sometimes though as the visibility uphill isn't great until you're pretty much onto OG. I've often wondered if anyone ever ran someone over shooting out of that spot.



It has happened. I think it was only during holidays which may have been why you were not at lp. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## steamboat1 (Jul 1, 2015)

JimG. said:


> What's amazing is that they video and post their "descent".


Guess you've never seen the vid with the guy taking off his ski's &  ski boots & trying to walk up Catwalk in socks..:razz:


----------



## cdskier (Jul 1, 2015)

benski said:


> It has happened. I think it was only during holidays which may have been why you were not at lp.



That would explain it. I tend to avoid going up Christmas week and the 1st weekend of the President's week holiday altogether. I've never found MLK or the 2nd part of President's to be that bad though in terms of crowds (although I'm still probably at ME on those Saturdays when LP would be busiest).


----------



## Tin (Jul 2, 2015)

Berkie has really gone wild now with their bike complex. I just hope all these new attractions and upgrades are bringing in money and they are not bankrupt in 3-4 years.


----------



## dlague (Jul 2, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Guess you've never seen the vid with the guy taking off his ski's &  ski boots & trying to walk up Catwalk in socks..:razz:



There are several pretty funny vids of the walk to it and people going down it.  Here is an example of why trails get all f'd up!


----------



## dlague (Jul 2, 2015)

dlague said:


> There are several pretty funny vids of the walk to it and people going down it.  Here is an example of why trail get all f'd up!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEueG6Filo



Or this


----------



## Tin (Jul 2, 2015)

This is why we can't have nice things...


----------



## SIKSKIER (Jul 2, 2015)

That is the one good thing about Cannons setup.Bottom to top lift or upper lift.I personally dont like the tram but that option for both is great.Is there any other mt in the east that has that option?


----------



## deadheadskier (Jul 2, 2015)

Stratton


----------



## yeggous (Jul 2, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Stratton



Yes, the whole mountain is divided into upper and lower. It's a good thing too because the bottom half of Stratton makes Bretton Woods look steep.


----------



## JimG. (Jul 2, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Guess you've never seen the vid with the guy taking off his ski's &  ski boots & trying to walk up Catwalk in socks..:razz:



Oh but I have seen that video! That guy made this video look like the Meatheads.


----------



## spiderpig (Jul 4, 2015)

dlague said:


> My uncle along with, my dad, brother-in-law and myself tried to bid 500,000 for 20 units during the Burke Foreclosure in the 1990's and were unsuccessful.  My uncle wanted to bid $25,000 for each which probably would have sealed the deal.  Hind sight is always 20/20.



Isn't that $500,000? What am I missing here?


----------



## prsboogie (Jul 6, 2015)

http://www.snocountry.com/en/news/e...-snowguns-lodge-improvements-at-mount-sunapee


----------



## dlague (Jul 6, 2015)

spiderpig said:


> Isn't that $500,000? What am I missing here?



Was checking with my brother in law we bid $400,000 or 20k per unit my uncle wanted to bid $500,000 which would have worked.


----------



## spiderpig (Aug 25, 2015)

Okemo going to RFID ticketing next year, which will pop up the daily ticket price for first-timers. Not sure if this deserves a new thread, especially since it's only through word-of-mouth, or that it's necessarily an improvement.

Edit: it's on their "what's new" page. I suppose an improvement would be direct-to-lift access for subsequent visits. http://www.okemo.com/mountain-info/whats-new/


----------



## ALLSKIING (Aug 25, 2015)

spiderpig said:


> Okemo going to RFID ticketing next year, which will pop up the daily ticket price for first-timers. Not sure if this deserves a new thread, especially since it's only through word-of-mouth, or that it's necessarily an improvement.
> 
> Edit: it's on their "what's new" page. I suppose an improvement would be direct-to-lift access for subsequent visits. http://www.okemo.com/mountain-info/whats-new/



Maybe it's me but I just don't like having to go through the gates....reminds me of going on a ride not skiing.


----------



## Smellytele (Aug 25, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> Maybe it's me but I just don't like having to go through the gates....reminds me of going on a ride not skiing.



I hate them because too many times one out of the 4 in your party doesn't get through and it messes everything up.


----------



## ss20 (Aug 25, 2015)

spiderpig said:


> Okemo going to RFID ticketing next year, which will pop up the daily ticket price for first-timers. Not sure if this deserves a new thread, especially since it's only through word-of-mouth, or that it's necessarily an improvement.
> 
> Edit: it's on their "what's new" page. I suppose an improvement would be direct-to-lift access for subsequent visits. http://www.okemo.com/mountain-info/whats-new/



That's quite a sizable investment for a place with 20 lifts.  

What is the point of this RFID phenomenon anyway.  I've been through the process at Jiminy Peak and Stowe, with that said I probably have 7-10 days on RFID technology. 

1. It's a sizable investment
2. Same labor costs at the lift (the two ticket checkers are now gatekeepers)
3. Costs money to train staff
4. Still need people at the ticket windows.
5. Same amount of waste.  
6. Doesn't benefit the skier, except that they now have to keep track of this minuscule card to save $5 on the next lift ticket
7. It craps out 1 out of every 15 times (for me anyways). 
8. The gates are ugly and stupid.  Someone else compared it to going on a ride, I'm reminded more of going through a tollbooth.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 25, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Someone else compared it to going on a ride, I'm reminded more of going through a tollbooth.



I prefer to compare it to a thoroughbred horse at the starting gate of the Kentucky Derby.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 25, 2015)

I don't care for gated RFID systems.  The sensors aren't designed well enough.  I always run into issues at Jay trying to go through the gates.  It results in seats going up the mountain without asses.


----------



## machski (Aug 25, 2015)

RFID is standard down in New Zealand.  Of course, most resorts have far fewer lifts, especially out of the base.  Many did not use the RFID on upper mountain lifts.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 25, 2015)

Not a big fan of RFID either but it beats the heck out scanner guns. More times than not I just get waved through at K because the scanner can't read my pass. This after several attempts of course, it's a pain in my rear. On the other hand I usually have to empty out a pocket so the RFID card can get scanned without a problem. It doesn't read with ski locks, metal flasks etc. in your pocket. Even a pack of cigarettes with foil wrapping usually causes a problem


----------



## catsup948 (Aug 25, 2015)

I like mountains where they glance as you get on or don't bother at all!  Not that I'm trying to sneak on but I don't like waiting for anything or anyone when I ski.


----------



## mbedle (Aug 26, 2015)

ss20 said:


> That's quite a sizable investment for a place with 20 lifts.
> 
> What is the point of this RFID phenomenon anyway.  I've been through the process at Jiminy Peak and Stowe, with that said I probably have 7-10 days on RFID technology.
> 
> ...



True - they are pretty ugly. But if it saves me money, I really don't care. Pretty much the same thing as EZ-pass.


----------



## Tin (Aug 26, 2015)

They seem pretty easy to abuse (maybe easier than a singles line). I've seen people at Crotched, Sugarbush, and Stratton be busted by staff scanning tickets for using someone else's season pass.


----------



## steamboat1 (Aug 26, 2015)

Tin said:


> They seem pretty easy to abuse (maybe easier than a singles line). I've seen people at Crotched, Sugarbush, and Stratton be busted by staff scanning tickets for using someone else's season pass.


That screen that the ticket checker is looking at with a RFID system shows your picture as you go through the gate.


----------



## danimals (Aug 26, 2015)

Blue mountain in the Poconos uses RFID and I've never seen anything become an issue. I saw it go down once and they just assumed everyone was legit. Before they implemented the RFID at the lifts, they treated the mountain like an amusement park, which i liked better. They had two large entrance gates outside of their lodges and would scan peoples tickets as they entered the mountain. This meant no ticket checks as lifts as if you were on the hill, you were already scanned.


----------



## spiderpig (Aug 26, 2015)

danimals said:


> Blue mountain in the Poconos uses RFID and I've never seen anything become an issue. I saw it go down once and they just assumed everyone was legit. Before they implemented the RFID at the lifts, they treated the mountain like an amusement park, which i liked better. They had two large entrance gates outside of their lodges and would scan peoples tickets as they entered the mountain. This meant no ticket checks as lifts as if you were on the hill, you were already scanned.


I liked that, and it worked well for a small, contained mountain, but that is much more easily abused if you have more than two people in your group. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk


----------



## mbedle (Aug 26, 2015)

danimals said:


> Blue mountain in the Poconos uses RFID and I've never seen anything become an issue. I saw it go down once and they just assumed everyone was legit. Before they implemented the RFID at the lifts, they treated the mountain like an amusement park, which i liked better. They had two large entrance gates outside of their lodges and would scan peoples tickets as they entered the mountain. This meant no ticket checks as lifts as if you were on the hill, you were already scanned.



That worked good when you had day, half day and night passes. Blue wanted to move to free 4, 6 and 8 hour blocks, so scanning at entrances doesn't work anymore. I can't remember if back when they had the gates if they still had scanners at the lift to check for half day passes or was it a different color. Do you remember what they use to do?


----------



## skiur (Aug 26, 2015)

CAPITAL INVESTMENT AT KILLINGTON RESORT AND PICO MOUNTAIN EXCEEDS $6.5 MILLION THIS YEAR
Improvements to lifts and snowmaking improve reliability and sustainability across resorts

KILLINGTON, Vt. (August 20, 2015) – Vermont’s Killington Resort, the largest ski and snowboard destination in Eastern North America, continues to invest in capital improvements, adding year-round attractions, expanding its mountain bike trail network, and upgrading lifts and snowmaking systems for the upcoming 2015-16 winter season. Since Powdr Resorts purchased Killington Resort and Pico Mountain in 2007, infrastructure improvements have exceeded $40 million, including lifts, lift drives, snowmaking systems and Killington’s signature Peak Lodge.

“We had a tremendous winter with snowmaking production to match, and remained open for skiing and riding through Memorial Day, once again owning the longest season in the East. Building on that energy, we added the Snowshed Adventure Center with ten attractions and a host of new mountain bike trails. Already our summer business has increased 100% compared to last summer,” stated Mike Solimano, president and general manager for Killington Resort and Pico Mountain. “We invested significantly in the Beast Mountain Coaster and other attractions for this summer, and will operate many year-round, adding depth to what was already the best winter destination experience available in the East.”

Killington continues to invest in infrastructure and guest-experience projects, including efforts to increase the reliability of the most expansive lift network in the East. This year’s capital improvement budget includes investment at the new Snowshed Adventure Center in excess of $3.5 million, and lift and snowmaking improvements exceeding $1 million. 

In addition to the significant investment in projects to improve guest experience, Killington recently signed a 20-year purchase agreement with Namaste Solar to receive 3 MW of power from six new 500 kW solar arrays constructed in Vermont. Building on the resort’s commitment to sustainability and being the greenest resort in Vermont, the 4,700 MWh’s of new solar generated electricity will cover all energy needs required to pump water to snow guns on ski trails at both Killington and Pico. 

Another large-scale project underway at Killington is a $750,000 reimagining of the Ovations restaurant at the Killington Grand Resort Hotel. New plans call for remodel of the restaurant, creating the premier destination for après ski dining and drinking in the Killington region.

This summer, Killington Resort formally kicked off a five-year mountain bike park expansion, directing over $175,000 to trail building efforts, with many new trails already open for riders. Killington’s mountain bike park initiative is in partnership with Gravity Logic, the Whistler, British Columbia-based mountain bike trail design experts. Gravity Logic is working with the resort to transform Killington’s mountain bike offerings to include more beginner and intermediate-friendly terrain while continuing to add more flow and freeride trails for experts.
New mountain bike trails are also being integrated seamlessly with the new Beast Mountain Coaster, with six trails passing under and over the coaster on bridges built from recycled steel from the original Killington Gondola’s Skye Peak terminal.

Over $600,000 has been earmarked for installing new electronic lift drive systems on the K-1 Express and Skyeship Express Gondolas, plus communications lines, new haul ropes, component upgrades, and improvements at load and unload terminals for a number of lifts across Killington and Pico resorts.

Another $600,000 is allocated to mountain improvements directly improving visitor experience including ski trail edging and widening, new ticket scanners, paving projects and a new park-specific grooming machine. Winter visitors will also feel the positive effects of snowmaking improvements including the replacement of key artery water pipelines to Killington Peak and Pico Peak, plus the rebuilding of hydrants, water pumps and additional new snowmaking hose. 

Snowmaking infrastructure has been redesigned and relocated on the lower section of Superstar trail. This investment will enhance snow production on the signature trail by utilizing fans guns to make snow faster and more efficiently. This snowmaking improvement will impact the guest experience through the final day of the spring ski season with better snow coverage and depth.

In partnership with Killington Mountain School, over $600,000 is being invested to further improve the race and training venues at the resort. A new mid-station unload for the Snowdon Triple lift, and a permanent bag jump venue on lower Superstar will be constructed, setting the stage for future competitions and training programs. The bag jump will feature a full ramp and will be used year-round, creating a much more extensive jump site than existed before, capable of hosting summer jump camps, bringing additional energy to the resort.

“Our mountain crews have been very busy this summer with the extensive investment in both summer and winter improvements at the resort,” stated Jeff Temple, director of mountain operations and facilities maintenance for Killington Resort and Pico Mountain. “With construction completed in record time for the highly successful Beast Mountain Coaster, new gravity-fed mountain bike trails and other summer activities, our focus now is on the many lift and snowmaking upgrades.” 

“During the 2014-15 ski season, skier visits were up 9% over the 2013-14 season, and that helped drive significant growth in lodging, retail and food and beverage,” said Rob Megnin, director of sales and marketing at Killington Resort and Pico Mountain. “Summer business has been growing rapidly as well, and we plan to carry that momentum into this winter.”

Killington Resort continues to focus on improving the overall on-mountain guest experience by providing unparalleled access to the most extensive trail network in the northeast. During winter 2015-16, Killington skiers and riders will enjoy over 200 trails and nearly 2,000 acres of skiable terrain on one ticket, plus access to 20 other resorts across the country with the M.A.X. Pass add-on. The best prices on Killington and Pico Season Passes are available through October 15, 2015.
Weather permitting, Killington snowmaking will resume in mid-October, once again setting the stage for the longest season in the East.
###


----------



## ss20 (Aug 26, 2015)

danimals said:


> Blue mountain in the Poconos uses RFID and I've never seen anything become an issue. I saw it go down once and they just assumed everyone was legit. Before they implemented the RFID at the lifts, they treated the mountain like an amusement park, which i liked better. They had two large entrance gates outside of their lodges and would scan peoples tickets as they entered the mountain. This meant no ticket checks as lifts as if you were on the hill, you were already scanned.



Only place I've skied where it's a main gate is Thunder Ridge.  It's kinda funny, _it is_ an actual tollbooth.


----------



## machski (Aug 26, 2015)

I think the biggest public mountain improvement this year in the East is going on at Sugar Mountain in NC.  A new Six Pack and realignment of the former summit lifts to new segments of the mountain.  At least someone is spending big bucks somewhere in the East


----------



## machski (Aug 26, 2015)

Loon's Camp III lodge is getting gutted and rebuilt, with more seats and a better flow for the food and suds.


----------



## ss20 (Aug 26, 2015)

machski said:


> I think the biggest public mountain improvement this year in the East is going on at Sugar Mountain in NC.  A new Six Pack and realignment of the former summit lifts to new segments of the mountain.  At least someone is spending big bucks somewhere in the East



Looking at the trail map, there are...

Two diamonds, one double diamond, and one intermediate trail from the summit.  In the word's of Herbert Morrison... "_Oh the humanity!_"

This is their trail map:


----------



## Quietman (Aug 28, 2015)

Mt Abram is adding 6 new trails this fall, a few are major ones. This will be an amazing amount of terain all serviced by a 45 year old double. Trail one is to be a dedicated race trail.  This is from an email that I received today.  I love this place!!


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 28, 2015)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Trail One eliminate a few glades?

Wonder why they need a new racing trail.  Isn't Boris Badanov sufficient?  

Hope trail six is constructed well.  There's a nice pitch in parts of that area.  A nice narrow trail taking advantage of the double fall line would be fun.


----------



## Domeskier (Aug 28, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Looking at the trail map, there are...
> 
> Two diamonds, one double diamond, and one intermediate trail from the summit.  In the word's of Herbert Morrison... "_Oh the humanity!_"
> 
> This is their trail map: View attachment 17372



Not to fear - I believe those three yellow circles on the main lift before the summit are all "mid-stations."


----------



## Quietman (Aug 28, 2015)

Zephyr Glades look to be undisturbed.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks!

Hopefully I make it back there this year.  Love that place.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Aug 28, 2015)

6 trails....that's pretty sweet!


----------



## JAM614 (Aug 28, 2015)

Awesome! Mt. Abram is a great mid-sized mountain!


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


----------



## xwhaler (Sep 10, 2015)

More news on Mt Abram---never skied here but will try and get up there this coming season

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/busi...plans-biggest-expansion-more-30-years/1778895


----------



## Newpylong (Sep 10, 2015)

Minor in comparison to the big boys but Whaleback:

*Lodge/Misc:*

-Upper deck entirely ripped out and rebuilt
-Primary Groomer completely rebuilt
-Blade being attached to backup groomer (usually only used for moving fan guns around but will now be able to farm snow)


*Snowmaking:*

-A complete review of the snowmaking plant and equipment by an independent snow engineering company occurred in the spring.
-Water pump being sent out for complete rebuild
-Primary compressor is being serviced
-A number of “chokepoints” in the main pump house piping are being eliminated
-Fan guns are being serviced and additional power outlets will be installed to utilize them in the high acreage areas.
-6” water pipe is replacing 4” pipe coming down from the summit to the large acreage areas and one former loop will be dead ended to provide higher pressure up top.
-HKD tower guns on Dorsal for this year (first route to open)

*Lights:*

-Additional density will be added and some lights raised for better coverage.
-Lights on Scrimshaw/Canyon will be fixed and the west side of the trail will be relit as it was prior to widening.
-Remainder of new lights from last year will be installed.
-Additional lighting on Rib Cage.
-Tree removal and bulb replacement on Face
-Fix dark spots around base area

*Trail work:
*
-Dorsal has been widened in area, the entire trail stumped.
-Canyon has been stumped and regraded
-Rib Cage has been widened and regraded
-Bottom of Scrimshaw/Canyon has been regraded. The mess down there is gone.
-Bottom of Spout regraded.

Name of the game is less now to be made to cover the same area.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 10, 2015)

xwhaler said:


> More news on Mt Abram---never skied here but will try and get up there this coming season
> 
> http://www.sunjournal.com/news/busi...plans-biggest-expansion-more-30-years/1778895



Hopefully addressing the Base Lodge will be not too far off.  While it's impressive what they've done with the tent, it can get a wee bit cozy in there.  Even expanding it to offer more seating would be fine if they feel like a stick structure is too expensive and bad for their business.


----------



## xwhaler (Sep 10, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Minor in comparison to the big boys but Whaleback:
> 
> *Lodge/Misc:*
> 
> ...


All sounds great---don't forget the new glade they are re claiming skiers right of Blowhole....I look fwd to hopefully hitting that when snow is good this coming season.
Lots of good stuff going on up at the Whale. I do hope they make F+B a bigger focus as well...seems an easy way to make profit is to boost bar offerings.


----------



## yeggous (Nov 21, 2015)

Wildcat says...

A new website is not the only “new” thing you will see at Wildcat this season. Some other summer improvements include:
35 new low-e guns (we can’t get enough of those things!)
A new entry way to the lodge
A new state-of-the-art leach field (the forest loves us and we in turn love and respect the forest that we operate in)
New kitchen equipment (Iva’s burgers will be juicier and Linda’s beer will be perfectly chilled)
New trail signage (try to get lost) 
New chairs in the Pub (juicier burgers, perfect beer and new chairs….. there’s no reason to leave the Pub)
2 words….. Mug Club (get them while they last, limited number available….. stay tuned for details)
100’s of gallons of paint
144 new pairs of rental/high performance demo skis

I am super stoked about mug club.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 21, 2015)

Yeah, I'm down with the mug club.

On the topic of drinking at Wildcat; I'd love to see the upstairs renovated to improve the bar experience.  When I go to Cannon I get bar envy.  They should flip flop the bar into the larger room and put a big ass bar in like Cannon has.


----------



## steamboat1 (Nov 21, 2015)

Not mentioned in this thread but in the Heritage thread is the new triple at West Mountain. The old chair from Heritage Club which the new six pack is replacing, heard it's in like new condition. West Mountain also bought the drive from the old Sugarbush Valley House chair to be used next year to replace their backside triple. Also in like new condition.


----------



## mriceyman (Nov 21, 2015)

Yea west mtn flies under the radar but i like what theyre doing. Will have to visit at some point but it is really far from me 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## JAM614 (Nov 23, 2015)

yeggous said:


> Wildcat says...
> 
> 
> A new state-of-the-art leach field (the forest loves us and we in turn love and respect the forest that we operate in)
> ...




Hopefully this will eliminate the "funk" emitting from the lodge lower level.  It used to get pretty ripe at times...


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2015)

JAM614 said:


> Hopefully this will eliminate the "funk" emitting from the lodge lower level.  It used to get pretty ripe at times...



Ski area restrooms are all very stinky. Not sure why they are the worst smelling restrooms on earth.


----------



## dlague (Nov 23, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Ski area restrooms are all very stinky. Not sure why they are the worst smelling restrooms on earth.



Apparently you have not been to public restrooms at the Beach!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Puck it (Nov 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> Apparently you have not been to public restrooms at the Beach!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


Or skied by the leach field for the new summit lodge at Kton.  It smells terrible as you ski Upper GN.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2015)

dlague said:


> Apparently you have not been to public restrooms at the Beach!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I have heard only bad things happen in public restrooms. I stay away from them...


----------



## Abubob (Nov 23, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Ski area restrooms are all very stinky. Not sure why they are the worst smelling restrooms on earth.


It's the concentrated urine cakes.


----------



## dlague (Nov 23, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> I have heard only bad things happen in public restrooms. I stay away from them...



True just go in the water!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## delco714 (Jan 13, 2016)

Abubob said:


> It's the concentrated urine cakes.


It's the concentrated URINE from the dehydrated skiers and boarders


----------



## mbedle (Jan 13, 2016)

You should see the "Shit Show" at Stowe when the line freezes from the Octagon!!!!


----------



## delco714 (Feb 3, 2016)

Sugarloaf dropped from 100 trails to 44 yesterday. Super! That and the fake snow melting the outside film of my anon m2 blue lagoon lens.. 

So happy we went to a medical conference at big sky 2 weeks ago. So much powder, whole mountain open..endless 6 days of boarding


----------



## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2016)

delco714 said:


> So happy we went to a medical conference at big sky 2 weeks ago. So much powder, whole mountain open..endless 6 days of boarding


----------

