# What's First? PTex or Wax?



## salsgang (Oct 15, 2008)

I have been tuning for about a year now and have a ptex / wax order question.

I have always Ptex'd first then waxed. I do a hyrdrocarbon warm wax apply and scrape and then an all-temp fluoro wax rub-on and iron... and let sit overnight before scraping / brushing.

Now that I am a bit more experienced at these things... I am noticing I am losing a bit of ptex after the waxing. The repair areas have recessed just a bit after waxing so it is no longer flush with the base.

I could do the ptex after waxing, but I am thinking it ptex won't 'stick' as good?

Am I doing something wrong? What do other folks do?


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## thetrailboss (Oct 15, 2008)

In my experience, PTex first and let it sit overnight before applying any wax.  When you PTex and then immediately wax, you are heating up that base area again before it has had time to sit.  

And to some extent P-Tex is going to wear away...depending on the location of the gouge and depth.


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## bigbog (Oct 15, 2008)

*....Yep..*

Do clean out/off wax beforehand...and if doing this in cooler basement..etc..apply a little warmth to the cleaned out damage area before ptexing, then as TB said, let the ptex set...in moderate room temp(helps non-shrinkage).  *Better to overfill with ptex than under...my guess.
If a coreshot, clean out & add little epoxy to fill core gouge first...y/n?  ...that has worked well for me..fwiw.
I like ECPH's scoring the area also..*

$.01


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 15, 2008)

ptex won't stick to a waxed base...clean the area with base cleaner first, score the area you're going to fill with an xacto knife, melt it - don't burn it...the more flame the less it'll stick. then as mentioned, let it set over night or for a few hours before waxing.  you don't need to let you wax sit overnight before scraping...just let it cool.  Make sure your iron isn't too hot either...and don't let it sit in one place too long.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 15, 2008)

Good points on cleaning out the hole first and then applying PTex.


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## Marc (Oct 15, 2008)

bigbog said:


> Do clean out/off wax beforehand...and if doing this in cooler basement..etc..apply a little warmth to the cleaned out damage area before ptexing, then as TB said, let the ptex set...in moderate room temp(helps non-shrinkage).  *Better to overfill with ptex than under...my guess.
> If a coreshot, clean out & add little epoxy to fill core gouge first...y/n?  ...that has worked well for me..fwiw.
> I like ECPH's scoring the area also..*
> 
> $.01



Don't use epoxy on foam core skis.  It will react with and eat away at the foam.  Wood glue is a safer bet.


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## snowmonster (Oct 15, 2008)

thetrailboss said:


> In my experience, PTex first and let it sit overnight before applying any wax.  When you PTex and then immediately wax, you are heating up that base area again before it has had time to sit.
> 
> And to some extent P-Tex is going to wear away...depending on the location of the gouge and depth.


What TB and bigbog said except I would add that you should let the ptex sit for a bit before scraping: Melt P-Tex in, sit for an hour or overnight, scrape, sand/structure then wax. Sometimes when the ptex has not set in, you could pull it out when you scrape.


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## RootDKJ (Oct 15, 2008)

I never really waited a long time between ptex and waxing, but I'll probably start after reading this


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## wa-loaf (Oct 15, 2008)

I also like to square off the hole with an exacto. P-tex stays in better in the vertical walls.


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 15, 2008)

bigbog said:


> *Better to overfill with ptex than under...my guess.
> If a coreshot, clean out & add little epoxy to fill core gouge first...y/n?  ...that has worked well for me..fwiw.



Defiantly better to overfill than to under fill.  Can always remove the extra once it has cooled.
On a core shot I do not know why you would add epoxy.  I have not had problems with P-Tex coming out unless it was real bad, and then I get the base welded.  Then have never had a problem.



eastcoastpowderhound said:


> score the area you're going to fill with an xacto knife, melt it - don't burn it...the more flame the less it'll stick.



The scoring of the good base spots will really help to hold the new and old together.
How do you "melt" it?  Do you have a P-Tex gun?  I light the end of the stick with a lighter and and hold it very close to the base.  This helps to heat the base but also keeps the carbon out.  When you hold it very low you will have a blue flame rather than a yellow/orange flame if you hold it up high.  The yellow flame creates ALOT of carbon and it gets mixed in with the P-Tex.



RootDKJ said:


> I never really waited a long time between ptex and waxing, but I'll probably start after reading this



I usually P-Tex and let it sit for a hour or two, then wax it up.


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## RootDKJ (Oct 15, 2008)

I also light the end and usually have a blue flame when I ptex


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## ed-drum (Oct 16, 2008)

Good advice here. Just don't let the p-tex drip onto the base, hold the candle close to the base and let it flow in. It will cool down before it hits the base if you let it drip on.


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## drjeff (Oct 16, 2008)

The other factor that will promote the "wearing" of the p-tex patch quicker than the surrounding original base material is the realtive hardness of both.  The "original equipment" p-tex that is on modern skis is much harder than the candle/gun melted patch p-tex that most at home tuners and many shops use.  So even with a great patch job, you'll very likely notice a wearing away of the patch job material when compared to the original material.

The good thing is, that unless you're an elite level racer (and if you are you're probably NOT tuning your own skis), most base damage will have little, if any effect on how your boards perform.  Basically, unless it's a core shot, *most* of us don't/won't need to do an "addition therapy" base repair work.  And if it is a core shot, well, you're probably better off let a pro at a shop have it it with a real base weld repair job.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 16, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> The scoring of the good base spots will really help to hold the new and old together.
> How do you "melt" it?  Do you have a P-Tex gun?  I light the end of the stick with a lighter and and hold it very close to the base.  This helps to heat the base but also keeps the carbon out.  When you hold it very low you will have a blue flame rather than a yellow/orange flame if you hold it up high.  The yellow flame creates ALOT of carbon and it gets mixed in with the P-Tex..



I've usually had the luxury of a p-tex gun or a torch.  I've always wondered if a hot glue gun would work...if you do a fair amount of ptex work it might be worth a trip to the local craft/home depot/hardware store to see if a ptex stick will fit.  might cost you $10 or so but you'll be much less likey to burn down your house...or get flaming ptex on your skin...  I don't bother with ptex anymore...if its not deep enough for a base weld I'll clean up any high spots and call it gouda.


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## salsgang (Oct 16, 2008)

great tips folks. Thanks a bunch. Seems like the overriding theme for me anyway is to let it sit more prior to wax. I will give it a shot.


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## skidmarks (Oct 17, 2008)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> I've usually had the luxury of a p-tex gun or a torch.  I've always  I don't bother with ptex anymore...if its not deep enough for a base weld I'll clean up any high spots and call it gouda.



p-tex candles are way too soft and won't really hold to modern base material. If you have a core shot have some one with a welder fix it for you. If it's not deep don't worry.

I do miss trying to get the perfect blue flame while working with white p-tex candles. My Olin Mark IV Comps had white bases.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 17, 2008)

skidmarks said:


> p-tex candles are way too soft and won't really hold to modern base material. If you have a core shot have some one with a welder fix it for you. If it's not deep don't worry.
> 
> I do miss trying to get the perfect blue flame while working with white p-tex candles. My Olin Mark IV Comps had white bases.



ayuh.  I miss the smell of burning ptex...ahh, the memories!


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 18, 2008)

skidmarks said:


> I do miss trying to get the perfect blue flame while working with white p-tex candles. My Olin Mark IV Comps had white bases.


My first pair of skis that I bought when I worked in the shop was a pair of K2 Public Enemys with white bases.  They were the worst skis ever to try and learn to P-Tex with.  My bases looked like crap with all of the carbon mixed into them.



eastcoastpowderhound said:


> ayuh.  I miss the smell of burning ptex...ahh, the memories!


I do enjoy the smell of P-Tex burning.  But absolutly hate the feel of it dripping on you!:x:smash:


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## andyzee (Oct 18, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> My first pair of skis that I bought when I worked in the shop was a pair of K2 Public Enemys with white bases.  They were the worst skis ever to try and learn to P-Tex with.  My bases looked like crap with all of the carbon mixed into them.
> 
> 
> I do enjoy the smell of P-Tex burning.  But absolutly hate the feel of it dripping on you!:x:smash:



I hate the smell, enjoy the feel


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## Starter Jackets Rule! (Oct 18, 2008)

ONCE THE PTEX COOLS SCRAPE WITH A RAZOR BLADE ANd ooops caps lock...hold the razor at 90 degs to the base and with rapid random patterns scrape off the high spots.
then way as needed. it is a simple as that.
Of yeah under score the area with a razor blade and make shure the hole is CLEAN!!!!
For welds use a lister gun fill the core shot 3/4, let cool the finish with P-tex.
I use a torch and KUU Sport ptex(imo the best out there) and paint in the  holes then scrape.
(In the past i worked for swix in europe tuning europa cup racers skis and let this be known, if their skis needed any ptex they would trash them and get a new pair).
In rare cases if they were the racers "Gotta Have " ski they would send them back to the factory to be re based.


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## skidmarks (Oct 20, 2008)

*The sound of p-tex*



Hawkshot99 said:


> My first pair of skis that I bought when I worked in the shop was a pair of K2 Public Enemys with white bases.  They were the worst skis ever to try and learn to P-Tex with.  My bases looked like crap with all of the carbon mixed into them.
> 
> 
> I do enjoy the smell of P-Tex burning.  But absolutly hate the feel of it dripping on you!:x:smash:



When did you get your PEs ?

Dripping  P-Tex makes that great "zip zip zip" sound. 

But that was back in the early '80s. Soon after that came the P-Tex gun that used a much purer and harder base material. The stuff looked like a p-tex candle but you couldn't burn it. For the past 15+ years (different shops) I've been using a base repair tool called the Polyman. It uses a 3mm poly wire and does a real nice repair job. 

So what shop was still burning and dripping P-Tex in this day and age? Were you working in some 3rd world country in the Peace Corp? Teaching the locals how to repair thier bases?


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 20, 2008)

skidmarks said:


> When did you get your PEs ?
> 
> Dripping  P-Tex makes that great "zip zip zip" sound.
> 
> ...



I work in a ski shop.  My shop does not do the tunes we bring in.  We send them to our other store that has all of the machines and fancy tuning stuff.  This P-texing was of my own skis that I took care of rather than sending them away.  The P-tex I use is meant for the guns(like a hot glue gun) but I do not have one.  So I lite it on fire and hold it very close to the base(blue flame).  The PE's were 06-07 models..


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## skidmarks (Oct 20, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I work in a ski shop.  My shop does not do the tunes we bring in.  We send them to our other store that has all of the machines and fancy tuning stuff.  This P-texing was of my own skis that I took care of rather than sending them away.  The P-tex I use is meant for the guns(like a hot glue gun) but I do not have one.  So I lite it on fire and hold it very close to the base(blue flame).  The PE's were 06-07 models..



You got it! Hold the p-tex over a metal scraper close so the flame stays blue and clean. Then move the scraper over the base and move the candle over the damage.

It's a long lost art form!  We all used to have long hair so you'd always worry about burn't hair too.
And we'd be listening to Jeff Beck on 8 track to boot.


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