# "... home to Southern Vermont's most advanced terrain"



## billski (Dec 9, 2015)

So goes the claim by Magic Mountain in their latest "weekend sales" FB post.   Now I love Magic and ski there at least a couple times each year.  Does the "most advanced terrain" hold up?   The only contender I might consider would be Mt. Snow.  Bromley, Stratton, even Okemo not so much.   What do you think?


----------



## Puck it (Dec 9, 2015)

billski said:


> So goes the claim by Magic Mountain in their latest "weekend sales" FB post.   Now I love Magic and ski there at least a couple times each year.  Does the "most advanced terrain" hold up?   The only contender I might consider would be Mt. Snow.  Bromley, Stratton, even Okemo not so much.   What do you think?


You left off after January 1st.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 9, 2015)

Puck it said:


> You left off after January 1st.



It is really advanced right now


----------



## drjeff (Dec 9, 2015)

billski said:


> So goes the claim by Magic Mountain in their latest "weekend sales" FB post.   Now I love Magic and ski there at least a couple times each year.  Does the "most advanced terrain" hold up?   The only contender I might consider would be Mt. Snow.  Bromley, Stratton, even Okemo not so much.   What do you think?



I can't argue with Magic's claim.  

While Mount Snow does have a few trails that rival Magic's,  Magic by far and away, when they have the snow, has more true advanced terrain than Mount Snow.

Now if the claim was "most advanced terrain LIKELY TO BE OPEN ON ANY GIVEN DAY OF THE SEASAON in Southern Vermont" then I'd have to put Mount Snow ahead of Magic  :lol:


----------



## Talisman (Dec 9, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> It is really advanced right now



SoVT stone grind!


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 9, 2015)

I think the claim is correct!


----------



## DoublePlanker (Dec 9, 2015)

Magic is best in so vt by far.


----------



## Tin (Dec 9, 2015)

billski said:


> The only contender I might consider would be Mt. Snow.  Bromley, Stratton, even Okemo not so much.   What do you think?




Why not throw Killington in there as well?


----------



## Hado226 (Dec 9, 2015)

Claim verified.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## yeggous (Dec 9, 2015)

Tin said:


> Why not throw Killington in there as well?



Yes, this.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Dec 9, 2015)

billski said:


> Does the "most advanced terrain" hold up?   The only contender I might consider would be Mt. Snow.  Bromley, Stratton, even Okemo not so much.   What do you think?



Mt Snow? Unless you are talking a bullet proof flash freeze on the North face Mt Snow could never even be considered. Bromley is smaller, but I'd consider it just as challenging as MS.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 9, 2015)

Tin said:


> Why not throw Killington in there as well?



Because that central Vermont. But for best every place in south vt.


----------



## yeggous (Dec 9, 2015)

But Okemo is southern???


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 9, 2015)

yeggous said:


> But Okemo is southern???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Everything south of Rutland / RT 4 is typically considered Southern VT. K is central.


----------



## yeggous (Dec 9, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Everything south of Rutland / RT 4 is typically considered Southern VT. K is central.



By that definition Killington is southern. Between Rt 4 and 89 you have:
Suicide Six, Middlebury, MRG, Sugarbush


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 9, 2015)

Call it southern VT if you want want. In all my years of living 3 towns over I've never heard of us /Killington called Southern VT or NH.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 9, 2015)

Okemo > South =.Southern VT

Killington > MRV = Central VT

89 > North = Northern VT

That's the way I've always known it since moving to VT in 1990 and spending 13 years there as a resident.


----------



## slatham (Dec 9, 2015)

Agreed Killington not Southern. Okemo is.

Mt Snow has some legitimate expert terrain. Ripcord is downright steep by any standard in VT. Jaws is a great old school expert trail - steep, narrow, double fall line, natural snow, never groomed. There are other nice pockets on the north face as well. 

But Magic wins, hands down, not even close, fat lady singing, time to go home. We just need some F'ing SNOW!

So THINK SNOW!


----------



## Tin (Dec 9, 2015)

Pitch can only get so advanced. Adding ledges, pitch, thin cover, and obsticles makes things more advanced.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 9, 2015)

You know the snow sucks when we can make a two page thread on obvious facts.  

1. Magic is steepest in Southern Vt. 

2. Mount Snow is the steepest _resort_ south of Killington.

3. Unless you're dividing Vermont into halves, Killington is Central.  

Anyone who argues with these points is trolling, and believes that the Earth is flat.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 9, 2015)

yeggous said:


> But Okemo is southern???



Okemo is north southern vt.

killington is south central vt

i googled it


----------



## marcski (Dec 9, 2015)

I was always under the impression that the MRV was considered northern Vt.


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 9, 2015)

marcski said:


> I was always under the impression that the MRV was considered northern Vt.



South of Rt.4 is southern, Between Rt. 4 & Rt. 2 is central. North of Rt. 2 is northern. Pretty simple.


----------



## MMP (Dec 10, 2015)

*&quot;... home to Southern Vermont's most advanced terrain&quot;*

Mt snow has better flags. Terrain? You're high.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> South of Rt.4 is southern, Between Rt. 4 & Rt. 2 is central. North of Rt. 2 is northern. Pretty simple.



Except that Killington is south of Route 4.  


.


----------



## marcski (Dec 10, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> South of Rt.4 is southern, Between Rt. 4 & Rt. 2 is central. North of Rt. 2 is northern. Pretty simple.


I have to agree with Highway Star on this one....as he would say...."You're an idiot".


----------



## mister moose (Dec 10, 2015)

Being on the east side of the Appalachian  Divide, Killington is Eastern South-Central Vermont.  Pico is Western South-Central.


----------



## MadMadWorld (Dec 10, 2015)

There is nothing in southern Vermont that can match it. Pound for pound it can compete with just about anywhere when everything is skiable. Just doesn't have the BC offering that Jay, Stowe and Smuggs can offer.


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

Tin said:


> Why not throw Killington in there as well?



Because you fail at geography.


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

By dividing the state into thirds:

Southern Vermont - Everything south of Wallingford

- Okemo
- Stratton/Bromley/Magic
- Mount Snow

Central Vermont - Everything South of Montpelier, North of Wallingford.

- Sugarbush/MRG
- Killington/Pico

Northern VT - North of Montpelier

- Stowe/Smuggs/Bolton
- Burke
- Jay Peak


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

Highway Star said:


> By dividing the state into thirds:
> 
> Southern Vermont - Everything south of Wallingford
> 
> ...



Fail.  Okemo is not south of Wallingford.  I would have accepted Plymouth.

That aside, I agree with your list and the respective locations you put the ski areas in.


----------



## Domeskier (Dec 10, 2015)

This is kind of like bragging about having steepest doublest black diamond mogul trail in Connecticut, right?


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Fail.  Okemo is not south of Wallingford.  I would have accepted Plymouth.
> 
> That aside, I agree with your list and the respective locations you put the ski areas in.



Look at a map, moron.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

This moron just looked at the map.  I may be a moron, but you're an idiot.  For Okemo to be south of Wallingford, you need to either move Wallingford or move Okemo.  Good luck with that.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Dec 10, 2015)

Did you guys know this?
6. Magic Mountain Is the Powder Capital of the East Coast 
http://www.outsideonline.com/203971...ampaign=rss&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=xmlfeed


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

Okemo is 100% South of the CENTER OF TOWN of Wallingford, as marked by "Wallingford" on the map and the stoplight in the center of town.  The geographic center of Wallingford is irrelevant, and in the middle of nowhere.  When people think of Wallingford, they think of the center of the small town south of Rutland, with the stoplight, on Rt. 7.

 Dumbass.  

https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...0x89e03854cf0b8621:0xa7e2f02d8f0e6bd6!6m1!1e1


----------



## SIKSKIER (Dec 10, 2015)

It is south of Okemo.Maybe east southeast but still south. A place can certainly be south of while being east of also.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

Highway Star said:


> Okemo is 100% South of the CENTER OF TOWN of Wallingford, as marked by "Wallingford" on the map and the stoplight in the center of town.


I see.  When you said that Okemo is south of Wallingford, you didn't mean that Okemo is south of Wallingford.  You meant that Okemo is south of an arbitrary point within the town of Wallingford - a stoplight.  Thanks for the clarification.  Silly me for thinking that when you referred to a town you were referring to a town.  I need to tell the Vermont DOT to remove any signs indicating that you've entered Wallingford until you actually get to the stoplight.  People must be so confused with the way the signs are currently placed.  Tell me, oh smart one, how big is Wallingford?  A square foot under the stoplight?  Two square feet?  Why did I not know that it was the smallest town in Vermont?


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

You guys totally fail at geography.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

Highway Star said:


> You guys totally fail at geography.


I dunno.  I thought that a town was defined by its boundaries.  I didn't realize that the extent of a town is only what lies directly beneath a traffic light within the town.  If that's failing at geography, consider me very happy to be failing.

Bu the way, do you want to tell the state that they need to update their maps, or would you like me to relay the message on your behalf?  Because this map shows Wallingford as being WAAAY bigger than just a square foot or two under a traffic light.


----------



## farlep99 (Dec 10, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> Did you guys know this?
> 6. Magic Mountain Is the Powder Capital of the East Coast
> http://www.outsideonline.com/203971...ampaign=rss&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=xmlfeed



They clearly have the best marketing.  I hear the new guy is AMAZING at what he does


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I dunno.  I thought that a town was defined by its boundaries.  I didn't realize that the extent of a town is only what lies directly beneath a traffic light within the town.  If that's failing at geography, consider me very happy to be failing.
> 
> Bu the way, do you want to tell the state that they need to update their maps, or would you like me to relay the message on your behalf?  Because this map shows Wallingford as being WAAAY bigger than just a square foot or two under a traffic light.



You're really grasping here, aren't you? Just give up and move on.



http://www.wallingfordvt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/wal-zoning-6-2015F-Map.pdf


12345789


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

Highway Star said:


> You're really grasping here, aren't you? Just give up and move on.


Grasping, no.  And, yes, I am sure you would like me to give up move on.  Kind of like what you should be doing when you insist that a town is actually smaller than its own boundaries.

You might have a cottage industry developing here.  You should advocate that people who live south of the traffic light refuse to pay their property taxes.  After all, they don't live in Wallingford.  They live "south of Wallingford."


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 10, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Grasping, no.  And, yes, I am sure you would like me to give up move on.  Kind of like what you should be doing when you insist that a town is actually smaller than its own boundaries.



http://www.wallingfordvt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/wal-zoning-6-2015F-Map.pdf

As usual, you prove that you are completely clueless.  People drive though the CENTER OF WALLINGFORD all the time, and know where it it is.  Which is North of Okemo.  NOBODY CARES what the town borders are.

 You lost.  You fail. You sound like an idiot.  You are idiot.  Period.  Seriously, get a life.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

The map you linked to shows that Wallingford is much bigger than just a square foot or two under the traffic light.  Kind of like I've been saying.

Okemo is south of the traffic light in Wallingford.
Okemo is not south of the town of Wallingford.

So when you originally said that Okemo was south of Wallingford, you were wrong.  Had you said that it was south of the traffic light, we would not be having this discussion.

It just is what it is.  You can't magically move the boundaries of the town.

I think I've made my point.  You can keep calling me an idiot if it will make you feel better.  I'll let others decide from the actual facts whether or not I am.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2015)

Having lived in Ludlow for many years and driven north through Mt Holly and then Wallingford to get to Rutland countless times, I honestly had no clue the town reached that far south.  


Also, this geographic flame war is showing that we have reached new lows of snowless hysteria.


----------



## slatham (Dec 10, 2015)

STOP!

Wikipedia.

Wallingford: 43°27′28″N 72°56′49″W
Ludlow: 43°23′45″N 72°42′2″W

Any additional comments on So Vt's best advanced terrain, other than its all F'ing green right now!


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Having lived in Ludlow for many years and driven north through Mt Holly and then Wallingford to get to Rutland countless times, I honestly had no clue the town reached that far south.
> 
> 
> Also, this geographic flame war is showing that we have reached new lows of snowless hysteria.


Why would you need to drive through Wallingford to get to Rutland from Ludlow? Rt. 103 comes out onto Rt.7 well north of Wallingford.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Why would you need to drive through Wallingford to get to Rutland from Ludlow? Rt. 103 comes out onto Rt.7 well north of Wallingford.



103 goes through Wallingford for a stretch several miles south of route 7

See VTKs map for reference


----------



## ss20 (Dec 10, 2015)




----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

Highway Star.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 10, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Highway Star.



both of you


----------



## MadMadWorld (Dec 10, 2015)

Awful.....just awful


----------



## catsup948 (Dec 14, 2015)

I've lived the majority of my life 8 miles from Vermont on route 112.  I've always said the mountains in Windham and Bennington counties are southern Vermont.  Then I say from these county lines to I 89 is central and I 89 to Canada is northern.  Okemo maybe the outlier because it has southern Vermont ease of access for me but it really is in central Vermont.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 15, 2015)

I've never even heard of Wallingford.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2015)

Pretty little town...


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 15, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I've never even heard of Wallingford.



It's north of Okemo.  ;-)


----------



## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2015)

Ok then, is South Burlington south of Burlington? Discuss...


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 15, 2015)

Clearly there was some alcohol involved when South Burlington was laid out.


----------



## HowieT2 (Dec 15, 2015)

you guys are too funny.

my route to and from sugarbush takes me through wallingford on route 7 and we stop for gas/bathroom break there when traveling north.  so I am well aware that the town extends far south of the downtown traffic light.  in fact, when we pass the first sign for wallingford, we give the kids a 5 minute warning to prepare to get out of the car.


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 15, 2015)

I believe there is a South Wallingford, East Wallingford as well as Wallingford itself. Wallingford & South Wallingford are along Rt.7. You can usually find gas for a few cents cheaper in Rutland than in Wallingford.


----------



## HowieT2 (Dec 15, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> I believe there is a South Wallingford, East Wallingford as well as Wallingford itself. Wallingford & South Wallingford are along Rt.7. You can usually find gas for a few cents cheaper in Rutland than in Wallingford.



true.  its usually about $.07/gallon cheaper in rutland but the wife prefers the bathroom at the gas station in wallingford.


----------



## Cannonball (Dec 15, 2015)

from_the_NEK said:


> Ok then, is South Burlington south of Burlington? Discuss...



And why don't they call it "North Virginia"?


----------



## billski (Dec 15, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I dunno.  I thought that a town was defined by its boundaries.  I didn't realize that the extent of a town is only what lies directly beneath a traffic light within the town.  If that's failing at geography, consider me very happy to be failing.
> 
> Bu the way, do you want to tell the state that they need to update their maps, or would you like me to relay the message on your behalf?  Because this map shows Wallingford as being WAAAY bigger than just a square foot or two under a traffic light.



I'll get the highway department on the phone right away. LOL!


----------



## Tin (Dec 15, 2015)




----------



## marcski (Dec 15, 2015)

HowieT2 said:


> true.  its usually about $.07/gallon cheaper in rutland but the wife prefers the bathroom at the gas station in wallingford.



The Citgo?  It is a good stop as you head up or down on 7.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 15, 2015)

Tin said:


>



Yep.  Can you tell its been a crappy ski season on this site?


----------



## Tin (Dec 15, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Yep.  Can you tell its been a crappy ski season on this site?



Hey man! Screw you!


----------



## from_the_NEK (Dec 15, 2015)

So is the bathroom at the Citgo north or south of Okemo?


----------



## billski (Dec 15, 2015)

Mrg lays claim to the most challenging bathroom access at Birdland lodge!


----------



## HowieT2 (Dec 15, 2015)

from_the_NEK said:


> So is the bathroom at the Citgo north or south of Okemo?



Just north of the traffic light in Wallingford.


----------



## makimono (Dec 16, 2015)

I'm not sure you guys are accounting for magnetic declination in this thread


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

Don't be insulting.  Magnetic declination in Wallingford is 14° 12' W  ± 0° 22' changing by 0° 3' E per year.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 16, 2015)

Man we need snow lol


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2015)

This is really going to F you guys up.  Since when is Canada south of the US.  In Windsor Ont.!!!!!!  Mind blowing huh!!!!


----------



## Cannonball (Dec 16, 2015)

Puck it said:


> This is really going to F you guys up.  Since when is Canada south of the US.  In Windsor Ont.!!!!!!  Mind blowing huh!!!!



Also in the Ben Carsonverse.....


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> Also in the Ben Carsonverse.....


 Have you ever been to the Vermont panhandle?  It is breathe taking.


----------



## crank (Dec 16, 2015)

This article proves that Okemo is in central Vermont.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/travel/skiing-ludlow-vermont.html

If you take the NY Times work as gospel...which I don't.


----------



## witch hobble (Dec 16, 2015)

East Wallingford is just off 103 between Ludlow and Rutland, on the Mill River.  Wallingford proper is on 7, where Roaring Brook enters Otter Creek. 

Another geographical oddity: on the Poultney River, north of Whitehall, you can stand in NY and look off towards the West and be looking at Vermont.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

witch hobble said:


> Another geographical oddity: on the Poultney River, north of Whitehall, you can stand in NY and look off towards the West and be looking at Vermont.


I've always wished that there was a road that crossed that part of Vermont.  It would be cool to say that you drove through Vermont in just a few minutes.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

witch hobble said:


> Another geographical oddity: on the Poultney River, north of Whitehall, you can stand in NY and look off towards the West and be looking at Vermont.


I've always wished that there was a road that crossed that part of Vermont.  It would be cool to say that you drove through Vermont in just a few minutes.


----------



## witch hobble (Dec 16, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I've always wished that there was a road that crossed that part of Vermont.  It would be cool to say that you drove through Vermont in just a few minutes.



Vermont's dangling appendage.


----------



## Cannonball (Dec 16, 2015)

witch hobble said:


> Vermont's dangling appendage.



Much nicer area than America's dangling appendage....Florida.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> Much nicer area than America's dangling appendage....Florida.


Or perhaps Point Roberts, Washington.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 16, 2015)

witch hobble said:


> East Wallingford is just off 103 between Ludlow and Rutland, on the Mill River.  Wallingford proper is on 7, where Roaring Brook enters Otter Creek.
> 
> Another geographical oddity: on the Poultney River, north of Whitehall, you can stand in NY and look off towards the West and be looking at Vermont.



How that possible?


----------



## from_the_NEK (Dec 16, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> How that possible?



https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...!4m2!3m1!1s0x89e005f64be0b92d:0xc5a6cb8b3f580


----------



## Mapnut (Dec 16, 2015)

Wait, you have to drive through Canada to get to Point Roberts, WA? Anyone know how that happened?
(Notice that I am not apologizing for hijacking the thread.)


----------



## from_the_NEK (Dec 16, 2015)

Mapnut said:


> Wait, you have to drive through Canada to get to Point Roberts, WA? Anyone know how that happened?
> (Notice that I am not apologizing for hijacking the thread.)


See also: Province Point in Lake Champlain and Province Island in Lake Memphramagog (actually there is no road access to that one, boat only).


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 16, 2015)

from_the_NEK said:


> See also: Province Point in Lake Champlain and Province Island in Lake Memphramagog (actually there is no road access to that one, boat only).


There isn't road access to either one.  That is what Point Roberts so unique.


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2015)

And don't forget about the section of Minnesota that is completely surrounded by Canada. Landlocked by the Canucks.


----------



## ironhippy (Dec 17, 2015)

we had numerous farms near by that could only access their land by travelling on a road on the other side of the border

9/11 put an end to that


----------



## mister moose (Dec 17, 2015)

Since this thread has morphed into geographical oddities... and since the snow is so bleak at the moment...

Let me tell you the story of Seal Island, somewhere off the coast of far northeastern Maine.  I'm not taking the time to google proofread this, so some facts may be dusty.  And not much is on the internet.  Seal Island doesn't even show on most maps.  Trust me, it's there. 

I do a lot of long distance sailing at times, and on one trip we happened along Seal Island out in the gulf of Maine, pretty far up.  Fog bound, rocky coast, 20 foot tides far up.  It turns out there is some very rich history right before your eyes in that area.  At least according to the descendants still living in the area.

Back in the war of 1812, Barna Beale apparently led a force to successfully repel the British forces in the area, and among the spoils was Seal Island off the coast.  This is in an area where Canada and the US blend, as Maine goes Northeast yet Grand Manan off the coast is Canada.  To this day, a descendant of Barna Beale travels each day to Seal  Island, staking his ancestral claim to the land.  He has a 45 foot or so charter boat that carries about a 10 foot US flag off the stern.  which is a way bigger flag than average, in case you haven't been on 45 foot charter boats lately.

There is a reason.

Back to the foggy, rocky current laden coast.  At the head of the Gulf of Maine, lies the city of St John, New Brunswick.  (Don't ever say St John's, that is a Newfie town, and they are _very_ sensitive about that)  Canadian shipping up and down the Bay of Fundy to St John had lots of trouble encountering rocks and ledges, so they built lighthouses prolifically along their coastline.  All of which are painted red and white, all of which have a unique paint scheme. Someone sat in a room years ago and came up with this, so upon sighting a Canadian lighthouse you know exactly which one it was.  So in the 1840's, (Turns out it's 1834)  I forget the exact year, Canada asked the US to build a lighthouse on Seal Island.  The US said sure, no skin off our nose.  It's just a rock.  As in many disputes, The US didn't get the agreement in writing.  Seal Island is a few square miles of grass covered rock.  The lighthouse was built by Canada, and every day since then a Canadian lighthouse keeper has stood the watch, cleaned the lens, filled the oil lamp, trimmed the wick.  Even today, with automated lights, the Seal Island lighthouse keeper continues to stand his watch.  All this to keep Canadian ships off the rock ledges in the area.  None of this mattered to anyone until recently.

What caught everyone's attention, well it caught the fishermen's attention, is when the 12 mile territorial waters act went in.  Suddenly a 12 mile circle around Seal Island was important, as it determined who could fish there in some very fruitful waters.  The Canadians said it is our island, we have occupied it since 1834.  The US said it is our Island, we got it in 1812.  And so it began.

While we were on the Island, I met and talked with the current lighthouse keeper.  I asked him about the dispute.  "There is no dispute", he said matter of factly.  "It is our Island".

I also met and talked with the descendant of Barna Beale (Not hard, it is a really small island), whose great great grandfather fought off the British.  He insists the Island is the US, and every day he plants the flag in the soil under the eye of the lighthouse keeper.  He live on nearby (get ready) Beale Island.  Just off Jonesport where they race lobster boats with big engines at over 80 mph.  If you've ever seen a lobster boat you'll know this is impressive.

The land is still in dispute.  It has gone to the Hague.  Little Seal Island, in the Hague.

After we left the island, we next went to Eastport, a port of entry in Maine.  There is a huge sign as you come up the ramp from the float (We're now at 35 foot tides).  It says "All Vessels entering from foreign ports must check in upon arrival under penalty of forfeiture of the captain", or something.  We look at each other, and wonder, did we just come in from Canada?  Or the US?  So we walk across the street to the ancient, stone customs house.  Do we need to report, I asked.  "Where did you come from", he queried.  Seal Island.

"Get out.  I don't want to talk about it.  Get out."

At first I thought he was joking, but then I could see he was serious.  Later it occurred to me that if he cleared us in, he would take authority in an international dispute.  So out we went.

Seal Island is the last disputed territory between Canada and the US, and the last I knew, is still in dispute to this day.  The fact that most maps don't show it makes it even more mysterious and legendary.

The other interesting thing about Seal Island is that it is one of the very few Rookeries for the Atlantic Puffin in the US.  The only others are Easter Egg Is, Matinicus Rock, and maybe one other.  The  Puffin is a bird, but looks like a relative of a duck, and behaves like a cross of a goose and a chimpanzee.  They are lots of fun to watch. The best is watching them land.  They can't fly to a stop, they are more like transport category birds that need fast approach speeds.  It's sometimes like a controlled collision; they glide in with feet extended, stretching forward reaching for the ground, right to the edge of a stall... and frequently they do stall and tumble, or they do a fast running landing whoop whoop, whew!  They must be heavy for their size, and their wings are small.  The blade beat is extremely fast.  Their call sounds like little chain saws whirring. That day I burned 3 rolls of film on just Puffins.  Because their mating season is strictly protected, access to the island is limited.  We were extremely lucky to wander into the ability to go ashore.







The lighthouse





The colorful Atlantic Puffin.


A long story, but we're not skiing, so why not.

**Edit:
Found this depicting the area, the disputed territorial waters, and the "Grey Zone" of contention.


----------



## 180 (Dec 17, 2015)

very intweresting


----------



## j law (Dec 17, 2015)

*&quot;... home to Southern Vermont's most advanced terrain&quot;*

Magic rocks and the marketing is sound.  It's Jay Peak south in my book.  My new fav place to hit when the snow is right and I can't get north of Wallingford!


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 18, 2015)

mister moose said:


> Since this thread has morphed into geographical oddities... and since the snow is so bleak at the moment...
> 
> Let me tell you the story of Seal Island, somewhere off the coast of far northeastern Maine.  I'm not taking the time to google proofread this, so some facts may be dusty.  And not much is on the internet.  Seal Island doesn't even show on most maps.  Trust me, it's there.
> 
> ...



That is amazing!  I found this cool nat-geo video of the island and its wildlife:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ


----------



## billski (Dec 18, 2015)

j law said:


> Magic rocks and the marketing is sound.  It's Jay Peak south in my book.  My new fav place to hit when the snow is right and I can't get north of Wallingford!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


  I'd be more inclined to call it MRG south.


----------



## dlague (Dec 18, 2015)

billski said:


> I'd be more inclined to call it MRG south.



yup


----------



## chuckstah (Dec 18, 2015)

mister moose said:


> Since this thread has morphed into geographical oddities... and since the snow is so bleak at the moment...
> 
> Let me tell you the story of Seal Island, somewhere off the coast of far northeastern Maine.  I'm not taking the time to google proofread this, so some facts may be dusty.  And not much is on the internet.  Seal Island doesn't even show on most maps.  Trust me, it's there.
> 
> ...



And they taste good too!  On lots of menus in Iceland, and even served on Icelandair.  However, if they are now in decline, I would no longer recommend harvesting them for food.


----------

