# Ski NY



## gmcunni (Aug 23, 2014)

landed at JFK this morning and as i left the jetblue terminal there was an awesome ad on the wall for NY skiing.  It was 30-40 feet wide full wall picture of a snowy chairlift.  had i not been in a rush and had my hands full i would have snapped a picture.

i noticed in the corner of the ad a reference to the adirondacks.  

I don't ski much in NY.. which is better, the Adirondacks or the Catskill mountains?


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## ScottySkis (Aug 23, 2014)

They started adversting in the subway few years ago for for Adirondacks. Well my hill in Roxbury gets about 185 inches of snow a year because in the western Catskills, The other three resorts in the Cats get about 150 inches of snow and so do Whiteface and Gore with average snow fall about 150. Vertical and mass the Aks blow away any of the Catskills with chair lifts.


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## AdironRider (Aug 23, 2014)

Whiteface, at least as a passholder there, averaged closer to 200, if not above, than 150. 

ADK has better terrain, less crowds, and the best BC options on the East Coast. Its a no brainer.


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## ScottySkis (Aug 23, 2014)

I am sure Adironrider is correct about snow average and what he said. The terrain and vertical and ppl who live in Cats go up to ski the ADk. People in Adk dont come down to the Catskills. Gore is like a private mountain on holidays I been to Gore about 15 times the glades and steep contius vertical is fun. I only been to whiteface twice both times after bad weather.


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## RuhiRants (Aug 23, 2014)

I live down the road from Belleayre, and close to Plattekill, so I enjoy the local hills... I really like Gore in the Adirondacks. I don't have much experience with Whiteface, but will probably get up there a couple of times this season... Since Belleayre, Gore and Whiteface are NYS owned they offer a ski3 season pass, so I have to take advantage.


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## skiersleft (Aug 23, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> They started adversting in the subway few years ago for for Adirondacks. Well my hill in Roxbury gets about 185 inches of snow a year because in the western Catskills, The other three resorts in the Cats get about 150 inches of snow and so do Whiteface and Gore with average snow fall about 150. Vertical and mass the Aks blow away any of the Catskills with chair lifts.



Windham and Hunter average considerably less than 150 inches per year. Closer to 100 inches. Both Gore and WF average considerably more.


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## skiersleft (Aug 23, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> landed at JFK this morning and as i left the jetblue terminal there was an awesome ad on the wall for NY skiing.  It was 30-40 feet wide full wall picture of a snowy chairlift.  had i not been in a rush and had my hands full i would have snapped a picture.
> 
> i noticed in the corner of the ad a reference to the adirondacks.
> 
> I don't ski much in NY.. which is better, the Adirondacks or the Catskill mountains?



It's not even close. ADK's are much better than Cats. It's not even the same game. 

This is the pic you saw, I think.


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## gmcunni (Aug 23, 2014)

skiersleft said:


>


 that's the one.  lower left (not visible) is where the reference to Adirondacks was.


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## Harvey (Aug 23, 2014)

RuhiRants said:


> I live down the road from Belleayre, and close to Plattekill, so I enjoy the local hills... I really like Gore in the Adirondacks. I don't have much experience with Whiteface, but will probably get up there a couple of times this season... Since Belleayre, Gore and Whiteface are NYS owned they offer a ski3 season pass, so I have to take advantage.



I suspect this pass is driving business to all three state-owned mountains.


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## Cornhead (Aug 23, 2014)

I agree the Daks are superior to the Cats for skiing, but I greatly appreciate the Cats. I can easily do any of the Cats resorts as a day trip, the Daks not so much, but I have. The Cats are great for me when I get tired of the local hill, but don't want to spend the cash for a full blown ski trip. Their vert and terrain is in between my local hill and bigger mountains too. Platty has become my favorite by far, I kick myself for waiting so long to ski there, love everything about the place.

When I first saw this thread the time tag for th OP was 12/1982, I thought Scotty was replying to a 32 yr old post. There was no internet in 82, I guess technically there was, but not as we know it, how weird.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## St. Jerry (Aug 24, 2014)

So, which resort is that photo from?  Looks like too much snow for whiteface


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## Cornhead (Aug 24, 2014)

cps27 said:


> So, which resort is that photo from?  Looks like too much snow for whiteface


Looks like the summit quad at Whiteface, the fact it's not spinning is more evidence that it's WF, they do get a lot of wind holds after storms, I've been burned more than once.


Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 24, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> I don't ski much in NY.. which is better, the Adirondacks or the Catskill mountains?



As others have said, the ADK is so much better than the Cats it's not a contest.  Similar to trying to compare s.VT mountains with n.VT mountains.  That said, the Cats are certainly not terrible, Plattekill is one of my favorite ski areas.   As long as you're not the type who spends 75% of your day in the woods, you'll enjoy skiing there.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 24, 2014)

Cornhead said:


> *Looks like the summit quad at Whiteface, the fact it's not spinning is more evidence that it's WF*




ZING!

I'm not so sure it's the Summit quad though. Doesnt look steep enough IMO.


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## catskills (Aug 24, 2014)

Catskills are much closer to NYC, Long Island, NJ, PA, MD. 

ADK is significantly further away.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2014)

catskills said:


> Catskills are much closer to NYC, Long Island, NJ, PA, MD.
> 
> ADK is significantly further away.


That relates to convience not the quality of skiing.


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## Drewboy (Aug 24, 2014)

As a residence of upstate NY I wouldn't consider skiing in the Catskills and not because of the terrain! It's due to the people of NYC who go there! Their f u attitude should be left in the Hampton's or any other snobatorium they come from!!! But I must say enjoy the new Legends bar I am building you city dwellers at Windham Mtn.!!!!


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 24, 2014)

Drewboy said:


> *As a residence of upstate NY I wouldn't consider skiing in the Catskills and not because of the terrain! It's due to the people of NYC who go there! Their f u attitude should be left in the Hampton's or any other snobatorium they come from!!! *But I must say enjoy the new Legends bar I am building you city dwellers at Windham Mtn.!!!!



Toolbox alert.


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## Puck it (Aug 24, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Toolbox alert.




I have aver to agree with him.  One of the reasons, I ski Kton early and late. And only midweek in the dead of winter. Kinda the same reason I don't ski Loon.


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## RuhiRants (Aug 24, 2014)

Belleayre doesn't get those kinds of people... Its a small mountain, but the atmosphere is fantastic, IMHO... Hunter and Windham not so much..


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## Smellytele (Aug 24, 2014)

catskills said:


> Catskills are much closer to NYC, Long Island, NJ, PA, MD.
> 
> ADK is significantly further away.



So the ADK's being further away is better right?


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## gmcunni (Aug 24, 2014)

RuhiRants said:


> Belleayre doesn't get those kinds of people... Its a small mountain, but the atmosphere is fantastic, IMHO... Hunter and Windham not so much..



been to belleayre a few times. laid back and fun, should be going there more in coming years.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 24, 2014)

Puck it said:


> *I have aver to agree with him. * One of the reasons, I ski Kton early and late. And only midweek in the dead of winter. Kinda the same reason I don't ski Loon.



You shouldn't.

As someone else said, not at Belleayre, and CERTAINLY not at Plattekill.  Frankly, IMO, Windham gets a horrible rep because it's spendy, but the people there are wonderful in my experience.  Hunter is admittendly a bit of a DB-magnet, but that's 1 of 4 Catskill areas.  

And FWIW, I've seen equally DB'ish-behaviour at Whiteface from (a minority of) locals who seem to have an entitlement-mentality / anti-tourist mentality that rivals the worst of DB-behaviours at Hunter.


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## Scruffy (Aug 24, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> landed at JFK this morning and as i left the jetblue terminal there was an awesome ad on the wall for NY skiing.  It was 30-40 feet wide full wall picture of a snowy chairlift.  had i not been in a rush and had my hands full i would have snapped a picture.
> 
> i noticed in the corner of the ad a reference to the adirondacks.
> 
> I don't ski much in NY.. which is better, the Adirondacks or the Catskill mountains?



They're both good. Each ski area has it's unique charms and terrain. The more you ski the them, the more they reveal. Try them all.  

 And, a far as people and their "attitudes" that some are suggesting, there are good people and A-holes everywhere. The good people learn not to let the A-holes ruin the day.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Puck it said:


> I have aver to agree with him.  One of the reasons, I ski Kton early and late. And only midweek in the dead of winter.


Unfortunately you'll still have to deal with me.

Fk'n Brooklyn boy

Just stay away.

We'll all be better off.

F'n Masshole


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 24, 2014)

Scruffy said:


> *And, a far as people and their "attitudes" that some are suggesting, there are good people and A-holes everywhere.*



Exactly.


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## Scruffy (Aug 24, 2014)

Drewboy said:


> As a residence of upstate NY I wouldn't consider skiing in the Catskills and not because of the terrain! It's due to the people of NYC who go there! Their f u attitude should be left in the Hampton's or any other snobatorium they come from!!! *But I must say enjoy the new Legends bar I am building you city dwellers at Windham Mtn*.!!!!



So, you have no problem sucking at the tit while pissing in her face. Your problem is right in front of you, in part of your login name. You need to grow up and grow a set of balls. And, no I'm not from NYC not hat there's anything wrong with being from there.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Drewboy said:


> As a residence of upstate NY I wouldn't consider skiing in the Catskills and not because of the terrain! It's due to the people of NYC who go there! Their f u attitude should be left in the Hampton's or any other snobatorium they come from!!!


Hur hur.

Another one who thinks his chit don't stink.


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## Edd (Aug 24, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Unfortunately you'll still have to deal with me.



That does sound unpleasant.  No K for this guy.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Edd said:


> That does sound unpleasant.  No K for this guy.


To bad, it's really a nice place, especially mid-week.

I'm cool, just not going to listen & say nothing in response to the BS pouring out of other peoples mouth's about my city (the greatest city in the world by the way).

Who the heck do they think they are?

Not that I care.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 24, 2014)

Scruffy said:


> And, a far as people and their "attitudes" that some are suggesting, there are good people and A-holes everywhere. The good people learn not to let the A-holes ruin the day.



Very true.  But, it would be naive to suggest that certain places don't have a higher percentage of A-holes than others. 

I grew up in the suburbs of Boston.  I have no problem stating that there is a higher percentage of inhospitable A-holes in the city compared to other areas of the country where I've lived or visited.  I live in NH now, but only an hour away from Boston. So I still hang out there frequently and love it.  As you say, I've learned to not let the A-holes ruin my day. However, I do try and avoid them.  You'll never catch me hanging out in the bars around Faneuil Hall on a weekend night.   

 I love NYC too (except for the sports teams). There's a high percentage of A-holes in NYC as well, though not as much as Boston IMO. NYC is a far more diverse place with an international feel and I think those two factors suppress some of the attitude.  Yes, Joey is still everywhere, loud and in your face; but you can avoid him.

And well, on the weekends, Killington absolutely does have the biggest A-hole magnet of all ski areas in the East IMO.  That magnet draws the worst from NYC and Boston.  So, I'm with Puck It on Killington.  Great terrain and infrastructure, very good natural snow for the east, but I'd rather hang out and ski in a more chill environment without all that riff raff even if it means I'm skiing at a smaller area with less compelling terrain and lower amounts of natural snow.  I ski to escape the hassles of flat land life and I just don't find that at Killington most of the time.


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## Edd (Aug 24, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> To bad, it's really a nice place, especially mid-week.



Honestly, just busting your balls. I'm about a 2.5 hr drive from there but I rarely hit the place. Factors make other hills more convenient for me.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Edd said:


> Honestly, just busting your balls. I'm about a 2.5 hr drive from there but I rarely hit the place. Factors make other hills more convenient for me.


No offense taken. It takes me 5hrs. to get to K. I pass quite a few places along the way too. To me the good skiing in New Enland doesn't start until you get up to the Daks, north/central VT.,NH. & northern ME. None of which I day trip. K's my home hill because it's convient for me, no other reason. There's plenty of good skiing to go around up in that neck of the woods.


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## catskills (Aug 25, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> So the ADK's being further away is better right?


Whiteface on a powder day is just AWESOME !!!!  Whiteface on a very cold windy day after 2 weeks of no snow, not so much and questionable if its worth the extra ride time.    

I personally like skiing Belleayre, Hunter, Plattekill.  Although I ski Windham for some reason its lower on my personal list.  I think this is personal taste. If you watch Hunter's  early season trail snowmaking at Hunter you can hit some serious steep and deep man made snow midweek. 

Windham is right between Hunter and Belleayre as far as difficulty goes.  On the other hand Belleayre has a fair number of trails that are not groomed. 

As for the types of people, this has never been an issue for me in the USA.  Other people's attitudes have no affect on where I ski.  I have skied Hunter many times over the years.  Yes the NYC folks are different but hey we all are.  Skiing in Europe can be interesting.  In Europe folks like to bump and push in the lift line.  Extremely annoying for me actually. On the other hand folks in Europe are extremely friendly in restaurants and riding on the lift.


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## 4aprice (Aug 25, 2014)

Biggest problem with the Dacks is that the State of New York has got a lock on the best mountains and never allowed any competition to flourish.  Whiteface is impressive with its size and vertical but I have yet to get there when conditions were anything but marginal even in good natural snow years.  I like Gore but as people like BG have shown its very hard to score any deals.  It just makes taking exit 20 on the Northway and heading east on 149/4 more practical.  Love the Lake George area but would not invest there due to the above reasons.  

The Catskills are fine.  Windham is another one of those places that I've never gotten to with great conditions so it ranks at the bottom of the 4 for me, but that's not to say I wouldn't give it another try.

As for NY metro people its like anywhere else.  We all have our quirks.  Shore people hate Bennies, Colorado people hate Texans, and Vermonters hate Jersey people.  Cut off the money those people supply to those regions and I'm sure attitudes would change.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## 4aprice (Aug 25, 2014)

Biggest problem with the Dacks is that the State of New York has got a lock on the best mountains and never allowed any competition to flourish.  Whiteface is impressive with its size and vertical but I have yet to get there when conditions were anything but marginal even in good natural snow years.  I like Gore but as people like BG have shown its very hard to score any deals.  It just makes taking exit 20 on the Northway and heading east on 149/4 more practical.  Love the Lake George area but would not invest there due to the above reasons.  

The Catskills are fine.  Windham is another one of those places that I've never gotten to with great conditions so it ranks at the bottom of the 4 for me, but that's not to say I wouldn't give it another try.

As for NY metro people its like anywhere else.  We all have our quirks.  Shore people hate Bennies, Colorado people hate Texans, and Vermonters hate Jersey people.  Cut off the money those people supply to those regions and I'm sure attitudes would change.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Edd (Aug 25, 2014)

I had to look up the term "Benny". Learn something every day.


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## Domeskier (Aug 25, 2014)

4aprice said:


> Vermonters hate Jersey people.



I thought Vermonters _were_ Jersey people.  Which, on second thought, probably explains the animosity!


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## Smellytele (Aug 25, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I thought Vermonters _were_ Jersey people.  Which, on second thought, probably explains the animosity!



Kind of how ex-smokers hate smokers


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## Nick (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey Harvey we should do a joint AZ / HarveyRoad NYS ski day this year. I've never skied NY, so let's do it this year


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 25, 2014)

Edd said:


> *I had to look up the term "Benny"*. Learn something every day.



*B*ayonne, *E*lizabeth, *N*ewark, *N*ew *Y*ork.  You see "Benny Go Home" stickers at the shore all the time.



Domeskier said:


> *I thought Vermonters were Jersey people.*



No, it's just that people from NJ and NY generally run Vermont (sadly).


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## Domeskier (Aug 25, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> *B*ayonne, *E*lizabeth, *N*ewark, *N*ew *Y*ork.  You see "Benny Go Home" stickers at the shore all the time.



I had no idea the Pineys were so clever!!


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## from_the_NEK (Aug 25, 2014)

skiersleft said:


> It's not even close. ADK's are much better than Cats. It's not even the same game.
> 
> This is the pic you saw, I think.



I was almost going to say that looks suspiciously like the top of Burke's Willoughby quad. However the chair itself is slightly different.






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## ScottySkis (Aug 25, 2014)

Nick said:


> Hey Harvey we should do a joint AZ / HarveyRoad NYS ski day this year. I've never skied NY, so let's do it this year



+1 yes we should do this.


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## Scruffy (Aug 25, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I thought Vermonters _were_ Jersey people.  Which, on second thought, probably explains the animosity!



Na, Jersey heads south now. 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 25, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I had no idea the Pineys were so clever!!



Pineys go to the beach?



Scruffy said:


> Na, *Jersey heads south now. *



It's an exodus.   I think my entire graduating class is now in North Carolina, South Carolina, or Virginia.  Currently, 2/3 of Jersey moves are out of state (highest in America).  

Coincidentally, Vermont's also one of the worst states in America from an affordability standpoint, so NJ & VT share that in common.


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## Rowsdower (Aug 26, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Pineys go to the beach?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's getting ridiculous here. The problem with Jersey is that you can get pretty much the same QOL in any state at half the price. The proximity to NYC is a killer for cost, plus the state wastes money like no other.

They're replacing all the curbs on the main drag in NB with granite and Belgian block while I swerve to avoid potholes on my way to work... priorities...

Needless to say, once I get my degree I'll probably move back to PA.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 26, 2014)

Rowsdower said:


> * It's getting ridiculous here*. The problem with Jersey is that you can get pretty much the same QOL in any state at half the price. The proximity to NYC is a killer for cost, plus *the state wastes money like no other*.



It's going to get worse.  Highest property taxes in America, and 2nd-place isnt in the rear-view mirror. It's long-term financial destruction for your family, and it will get worse.  

With all the people and businesses "fleeing" the state, taxes will have to be raised on the "survivors" to sustain the spending, which will never stop. The government pensions are unfunded beyond any possible realistic financial escape.   It's an unsustainable financial situation, and we're not alone. The only question remaining is, who goes bankrupt first, California, Illinois, Michigan, or New Jersey?



Rowsdower said:


> Needless to say, once I get my degree *I'll probably move back to PA*.



Yes, eastern PA is another "boomtown" fueled by native New Jersey folks "escaping".  I'm taking a good look at moving there.  I wont buy a home in New Jersey, it's financial suicide. Paying $10,000 per year just in property taxes alone?  No thanks.  I will (relatively) soon be another New Jersey resident fleeing financial persecution.  Looking seriously at Bucks, Lehigh, and Northampton Counties in PA.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> I wont buy a home in New Jersey, it's financial suicide. Paying $10,000 per year just in property taxes alone?.



What is the average mill rate in Jersey?


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## Edd (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's going to get worse.  Highest property taxes in America, and 2nd-place isnt in the rear-view mirror. It's long-term financial destruction for your family, and it will get worse.
> 
> With all the people and businesses "fleeing" the state, taxes will have to be raised on the "survivors" to sustain the spending, which will never stop. The government pensions are unfunded beyond any possible realistic financial escape.   It's an unsustainable financial situation, and we're not alone. The only question remaining is, who goes bankrupt first, California, Illinois, Michigan, or New Jersey?
> 
> ...



My god, it sounds like everyone down there should just kill themselves. You paint a dark picture.


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## VTKilarney (Aug 27, 2014)

At the risk of getting too political, one thing that pisses me off is that the baby boomer generation is going to leave this country worse  off than they found it.  While there may be some geo-political reasons that were beyond their control, the reality is that they are going to live off of their social security and defined benefit pensions while the rest of us figure out how to pay for their benefits long after they are gone.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 27, 2014)

I'm far more concerned with the financial burden that generations following the boomers will place on society.  The savings rate and debt burdens of those generations are much worse.  They may not have the same pension and health benefit burdens, but they will have a huge burden on welfare benefits and they will be living longer.


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## 4aprice (Aug 27, 2014)

Edd said:


> My god, it sounds like everyone down there should just kill themselves.



:lol: I think about it everyday.  j/k   Wow what a thread hijack from NY skiing to Jersey bs.  Not much I disagree with BG or RD about what's going on here, it's a circus.  It's a shame too because it really is a decent place to live with the advantages of NYC and Philly next door.  I too am looking for that exit outta here but it won't be for a little while and it won't be PA. 

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> *What is the average mill rate in Jersey?*



Dunno, but the average property tax is something like $6,800.  But when you consider all the little urban homes that pay far less than that and bring the average down, you're really at something more akin to $8,000 or more if you want a nice home in Jersey.  Now add State income tax, Federal income tax, sales tax, etc....  Unless you're wealthy there wont be much left.



Edd said:


> My god, *it sounds like everyone down there should just kill themselves. You paint a dark picture.*



My financial prognostication for America in general would make you slit your wrists.  I used to be paid to predict the future so I spent (and still spend) a lot of time thinking about economics at 30,000 feet.  The thing that angers me, is this financial Armageddon is entirely predictable, but nobody will do anything about it because of politics.  And it's not just New Jersey; Illinois, California, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, etc.... are all heading off a cliff, and very few people even realize it.



deadheadskier said:


> *I'm far more concerned with the financial burden that generations following the boomers will place on society. * The savings rate and debt burdens of those generations are much worse.  They may not have the same pension and health benefit burdens, but they will have a huge burden on welfare benefits and they will be living longer.



Just wait until they start retiring in droves, and their "replacements" in the work force are encumbered by record student-debt.  Yeah, that $108,000 Degree in Art History or Philosophy etc... was a great idea.  Not to mention, they have the highest unemployment rate and are missing out on valuable experience as that principal is growing.  People tend not realize, these youngsters eventually become "first time homebuyers", which is a CRUCIAL component of the US housing market.  That component will be largely absent/depressed 5 to 10 years from now, etc...


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## steamboat1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Believe it or not living in NYC itself can be pretty reasonable. Yes rents are high as is the cost of buying a house. There's no escaping high rents but if you bought a house & payed off the mortgage real estate taxes are actually pretty low. Cost of living isn't bad either as some might believe. I actually find that the cost of staples in VT. are higher than where I live in the city.


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## Smellytele (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Dunno, but the average property tax is something like $6,800.  But when you consider all the little urban homes that pay far less than that and bring the average down, you're really at something more akin to $8,000 or more if you want a nice home in Jersey.  Now add State income tax, Federal income tax, sales tax, etc....  Unless you're wealthy there wont be much left.



Well here in central NH my house I pay 6500 and my house is only valued at ~210,000. I am sure you couldn't buy a shack in NJ for that. The bonus is we do not have sales or state income tax.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 27, 2014)

$8K isn't so bad given the value of the homes down there.  That's about what you'd pay in taxes on a $300K home in our town in NH.  For that amount you can get a nice 3/4 bedroom 2000+ sqt house with a decent lot.  Bet you'd pay far more than that for a similar home in most all of NJ.  Now, you go to some of the neighboring towns and that $8K tax payment would get you a half million dollar home in better school districts. 

Granted, we don't pay income or sales tax up here.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 27, 2014)

I have my property tax bill right in front of me. According to the city the market value of my house is $320,000. Houses in the area similar to mine sell for nearly double that. My annual property tax bill, $3,345.


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## 4aprice (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> $8K isn't so bad given the value of the homes down there.  That's about what you'd pay in taxes on a $300K home in our town in NH.  For that amount you can get a nice 3/4 bedroom 2000+ sqt house with a decent lot.  Bet you'd pay far more than that for a similar home in most all of NJ.  Now, you go to some of the neighboring towns and that $8K tax payment would get you a half million dollar home in better school districts.
> 
> *Granted, we don't pay income or sales tax up here*.



We pay every tax imaginable (that's what NJ government does), including moving out of state, or better yet dropping dead.  Half of our taxes go to "Abbott Districts", something like 35 (of like 600) school districts in urban areas we pay for ON TOP of our local school taxes.  There is no stopping this government from spending money, the problem being there isn't any.   When I get out I'm going to sit back and watch the place implode.  NH better watch it as all the northeast is going NJ's direction.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Smellytele (Aug 27, 2014)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-least-tax-friendly-states-150706051.html

NJ
The median property tax on the state's median home value of $348,300 is $6,579.


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## ScottySkis (Aug 27, 2014)

So the OP is going to learn not buy home in NJ, because of taxes he might miss out on the great weekend experience at Mountain Creek now lol.


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## 4aprice (Aug 27, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-least-tax-friendly-states-150706051.html
> 
> NJ
> The median property tax on the state's median home value of $348,300 is $6,579.



All I can say to that is Congrats to Mass.  You didn't make the list.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Domeskier (Aug 27, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I have my property tax bill right in front of me. According to the city the market value of my house is $320,000. Houses in the area similar to mine sell for nearly double that. My annual property tax bill, $3,345.



It's pretty good, as long as you don't have to work and pay another 8% of your income in city taxes...


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## VTKilarney (Aug 27, 2014)

NJ is also home to arguably the most corrupt teacher's union in the country - and that is not an easy prize to win.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> $8K isn't so bad given the value of the homes down there.  That's about what you'd pay in taxes on a $300K home in our town in NH.
> 
> *Granted, we don't pay income or sales tax up here*.



That's a huge difference.

Put it this way.  We have plenty of $430,000 homes (realistic resale value) at $13,000 per year in property taxes.   That's insanity.  If you're paying 3% of your home's value just in taxes every year, (nevermind the mortgage) you better PRAY home values escalate.



4aprice said:


> All I can say to that is *Congrats to Mass.  You didn't make the list.  *



They're still in the financial pooper though.



4aprice said:


> We pay every tax imaginable (that's what NJ government does), *including moving out of state*, or better yet dropping dead.



How this hasn't made it to the Supreme Court is beyond me.  The,_ "So you want to leave New Jersey?  We'll CRUSH you if you try"_ tax, cant possibly be constitutional.



4aprice said:


> *Half of our taxes go to "Abbott Districts", something like 35 (of like 600) school districts in urban areas *we pay for ON TOP of our local school taxes.  There is no stopping this government from spending money, the problem being there isn't any.



Where it promptly gets wasted, embezzled, skimmed, or handed out to friends and contributors to a certain political party which shall not be mentioned.  All in the name of..... "the children".  If you disagree, you must hate "the children".


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## 4aprice (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Where it promptly gets wasted, embezzled, skimmed, or handed out to friends and contributors to a certain political party which shall not be mentioned.  All in the name of..... "the children".  If you disagree, you must hate "the children".



They've got some palaces in those SD's.  Thank You NJ Supreme Court.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## deadheadskier (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> If you're paying 3% of your home's value just in taxes every year, (nevermind the mortgage) you better PRAY home values escalate.



Our rate is 2.5%.  I'm fine with the amount of property tax I pay.  In fact, I'd rather it would be 3% or just shy of there.  That's the increase needed to pay for a new High School, which the town desperately needs.  It's been voted down three times in the past decade in part because we have a very small school population for a town of our size.  There are not enough voting families to pass it through and/or you've got a large faction of folks waiting for the state to help.  Prior to the recession, the state offered aide to communities in need of new schools.  That aide has been suspended since 2009.  Though all the lottery posters still say how much the proceeds help with education.  

I guess it depends if you feel like you're getting good value for your money.  I do.  The town is well kept from the roads to sidewalks to public spaces.  We have adequate police and fire department resources.  The drinking water is good.  All of these things plus being in a great commuting location with access to good paying job makes me feel as though I'm getting good value for what I pay.

So, while paying 3% property tax may be a problem for you, it isn't for me.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> So, while paying 3% property tax may be a problem for you, it isn't for me.



Tax burdens have to be viewed holistically, and as you noted, there are material taxes like income and sales that you don't pay in NH that mitigates the above quite a bit (chiefly the lack of state income tax).  New Hampshire is not a typical example, 43 states do have income tax, but 3% is > 100% the national average.  Were there talk of installing a typical northeastern income tax of 5% or 6.5%, you'd probably change your tune a bit.  

That said, in an area where you have an average 4% mortgage, and a 3% property tax to value on a home is standard, Id' fear for the future of real home values in that particular market.  There's only so much juice to squeeze in every lemon.  Of course, I fear for the future of home values all over this country, so there's that.....


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## Smellytele (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Our rate is 2.5%.  I'm fine with the amount of property tax I pay.  In fact, I'd rather it would be 3% or just shy of there.  That's the increase needed to pay for a new High School, which the town desperately needs.  It's been voted down three times in the past decade in part because we have a very small school population for a town of our size.  There are not enough voting families to pass it through and/or you've got a large faction of folks waiting for the state to help.  Prior to the recession, the state offered aide to communities in need of new schools.  That aide has been suspended since 2009.  Though all the lottery posters still say how much the proceeds help with education.
> 
> I guess it depends if you feel like you're getting good value for your money.  I do.  The town is well kept from the roads to sidewalks to public spaces.  We have adequate police and fire department resources.  The drinking water is good.  All of these things plus being in a great commuting location with access to good paying job makes me feel as though I'm getting good value for what I pay.
> 
> So, while paying 3% property tax may be a problem for you, it isn't for me.



Mine is 3%


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## deadheadskier (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> That said, in an area where you have an average 4% mortgage, and a 3% property tax to value on a home is standard, Id' fear for the future of real home values in that particular market.  There's only so much juice to squeeze in every lemon.  Of course, I fear for the future of home values all over this country, so there's that.....



This also depends on your values in what you expect to get out of a home.  My folks lost money on every home they've ever owned if you were to compare the home values vs. what that money could have done in other investments.  They have a comfortable retirement in Florida in a home that is worth the exact same amount today as when they built it in 2000, so it's essentially worth much less.  It did nearly double in value during the housing bubble, so they could have sold it for a hefty profit at one point.  And then what? Buy another over-valued property in the same community or relocate away from where they are happy?

My father is a retired investment banker and an extremely staunch fiscal conservative.  That said, he never ever looked to real estate as a good investment.  The value in his homes to him has always been the shelter the home provides and the memories made under that roof; nothing more.

There's no universal home/community investment formulate that's right for everyone.  You pick what's right for you, vote to keep it that way or vote to change it if it's not right for you or move.


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## JimG. (Aug 27, 2014)

Has anyone else noticed we are off topic a bit?


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> This also depends on your values in what you expect to get out of a home.  My folks lost money on every home they've ever owned if you were to compare the home values vs. what that money could have done in other investments.......... he never ever looked to real estate as a good investment.  The value in his homes to him has always been the shelter the home provides and the memories made under that roof; nothing more.



This is all true, it's just that I'm approaching the subject strictly from a dollars and cents perspective.



JimG. said:


> Has anyone else noticed we are off topic a bit?



It ran it's course.

There's only so many ways you can say that the Adirondacks offers better skiing than the Catskills.


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## AdironRider (Aug 27, 2014)

DH, which school district are you in? 

SAU 16 pushed through the school rebuilds when I was younger. Frankly, those "desperately needed" remodels were done, but then the cost was about doubled for auditoriums fit for colleges at middle schools and the like. 

On the home cost front, I think NH has done the right thing and manages their finances (in a general sense) worlds above the surrounding states. For those reason, as well as the lack of sales and income taxes, I feel pretty confident that most NH real estate owners break even after taxes and maintenance. 

Do agree though that if you are looking for pure financial return, its still one of the worst investments, but you have to take opportunity costs into account, and with rent being 1k+ for a 1 bedroom in the Seacoast area that isnt a hell hole, you start to make some better gains. 

In your example DH, your Dad's other alternative is rent, which it sounds like he never really took into account and swings the return into the positives.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 27, 2014)

SAU 31

I believe Exeter's build and Sanborn were done with some of the funds coming from the state.  Exeter if I recall was about a $60M project.  That's for 1600 students with I believe an even higher capacity.  Newmarkets school was proposed at around $45M and is only half the size.  Shows you where the cost of building schools has gone in 8 years.

And when I say the needs are desperate for the school, that's not hyperbole.  They have had to close the school for emergency repairs on several occasions in the past few years.  Fire Marshall is at the point of not issuing occupancy permits if major investment isn't made, which will address construction issues, but not over-crowding.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 27, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> In your example DH, *your Dad's other alternative is rent, which it sounds like he never really took into account* and swings the return into the positives.



Rent has had a negative stigma in this country for far too long. 

 Historically speaking, rent HAS been the poorer choice in most markets, to the point where if you ask most people, they'll tell you you're _"wasting money" _by renting, and that home ownership is always a better choice.  You "have equity" and own something they'll say.   Well, sure, but they're completely disregarding the opportunity cost of those funds, and the new environment of sharply rising property taxes, etc...  

Saying that owning a house is always better than renting is akin to saying the Yankees will be one of the best teams in baseball next season, simply because they usually are.  I, for one, am betting on US home prices being lower in most markets 6 or 7 years from now than they are today.  A contrarian prediction to be sure, but I can back it up with solid logic.


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## Edd (Aug 27, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Rent has had a negative stigma in this country for far too long.
> 
> Historically speaking, rent HAS been the poorer choice in most markets, to the point where if you ask most people, they'll tell you you're _"wasting money" _by renting, and that home ownership is always a better choice.  You "have equity" and own something they'll say.   Well, sure, but they're completely disregarding the opportunity cost of those funds, and the new environment of sharply rising property taxes, etc...
> 
> Saying that owning a house is always better than renting is akin to saying the Yankees will be one of the best teams in baseball next season, simply because they usually are.  I, for one, am betting on US home prices being lower in most markets 6 or 7 years from now than they are today.  A contrarian prediction to be sure, but I can back it up with solid logic.



I've been sharply rebuked quite a few times when I've suggested renting is the better option sometimes. It depends on so many factors. Good post.


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## AdironRider (Aug 27, 2014)

Well I'm referencing NH specifically. There are plenty of scenarios where renting is indeed the right play.

Given the other benefits of NH, namely the lack of sales and income taxes, property holds value. 

Now Maine or VT on the other hand, might as well wipe your ass with 20's.


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## Cannonball (Aug 27, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> On the home cost front, I think NH has done the right thing and manages their finances (in a general sense) worlds above the surrounding states. For those reason, as well as the lack of sales and income taxes, I feel pretty confident that most NH real estate owners break even after taxes and maintenance.



Agree.  And NH property taxes aren't as black & white as many people think.  There is an assumption that lack of sales and income tax automatically equals extremely high property tax.  While that's generally true, it's not across the board.  The property tax rate in Lincoln, NH (12.84 per thou) is lower than in many MA towns.


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## AdironRider (Aug 27, 2014)

Lincoln has a lot of commercial property comparatively which helps. They are like Saugus on a New Hampshire scale. 

Or I guess Newington would be a better example on the Saugus metaphor.


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## AdironRider (Aug 27, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> SAU 31
> 
> I believe Exeter's build and Sanborn were done with some of the funds coming from the state.  Exeter if I recall was about a $60M project.  That's for 1600 students with I believe an even higher capacity.  Newmarkets school was proposed at around $45M and is only half the size.  Shows you where the cost of building schools has gone in 8 years.
> 
> And when I say the needs are desperate for the school, that's not hyperbole.  They have had to close the school for emergency repairs on several occasions in the past few years.  Fire Marshall is at the point of not issuing occupancy permits if major investment isn't made, which will address construction issues, but not over-crowding.



Yeah, that makes sense. Newmarket is a great town on the rebound so its probably for the best. 

Not doubting the hyperbole, just giving you warning that its easy for the necessary repairs to snowball. Not going to lie, I enjoyed these incredible facilities growing up in Exeter, but I didn't see much benefit from a middle school auditorium that added millions just to show kids giving a rendition of Bye Bye Birdie. 

Exeter was so crowded we had one way traffic in the hallways like herding cattle. This was 20 years ago now, but I can't imagine that being allowed today. Is Newmarket that crowded?


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## St. Bear (Aug 27, 2014)

Nick said:


> Hey Harvey we should do a joint AZ / HarveyRoad NYS ski day this year. I've never skied NY, so let's do it this year



Yes!


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## ScottySkis (Aug 27, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> Yes!



 I second this, at Gore, Whiteface , Platty Hunter , Windahm , Bell, see I not being picky lol.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 27, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> *I second this, at Gore, Whiteface , Platty Hunter , Windahm , see I not being picky* lol.



I agree.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 28, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. Newmarket is a great town on the rebound so its probably for the best.
> 
> Not doubting the hyperbole, just giving you warning that its easy for the necessary repairs to snowball. Not going to lie, I enjoyed these incredible facilities growing up in Exeter, but I didn't see much benefit from a middle school auditorium that added millions just to show kids giving a rendition of Bye Bye Birdie.
> 
> Exeter was so crowded we had one way traffic in the hallways like herding cattle. This was 20 years ago now, but I can't imagine that being allowed today. Is Newmarket that crowded?




Much of the school dates back to 1925.  The capacity of the school is 400 students.  Currently there about 450 students and that number is projected to rise.  Besides the gym locker rooms, there are a total of SIX toilets for girls and SEVEN for boys.  Several classrooms do not meet Department of Education minimum square footage requirements. Storage is extremely limited for supplies.  It's a mess.  Two years ago, the town voted for and spent $1.6M to buy land across the street for a new facility, but now residents don't want to pay for the facility.  

I'm willing to pay the extra $4.75 per $1000 of my property value to build a new school.  If 60% of the town agreed with me, it would happen.  As it stands, only 49.5% of the town does.  Honestly, all I think it will take is a 20% financial commitment from the state to get voters to change their tune. For the 50 years prior to 2009, the State of New Hampshire covered 30% of all new school construction costs.  So, only 70% of those shiny new facilities you enjoyed in Exeter were paid for by the residents of Exeter, Brentwood, Kensington, East Kingston, Stratham and Newfields.  The Governor says she wants to bring school construction aide back, but I don't see that happening in the current election cycle.


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## VTKilarney (Aug 28, 2014)

I'm afraid that demographics are not going to be conducive to new school building.  As the population gets older, it's going to be harder and harder to get a bond through.  There is a town near me that is having a real problem with that issue.  The town had two very good employers that are no longer around.  But their legacy is a very large population of pensioners (many with very generous pensions) who don't give a rat's ass if the town withers while they collect their pension.  They got the benefit of a very nice town but they are happy to see its infrastructure crumble - so long as their taxes don't go up one red cent.  And of course they wonder why the burglaries and other problems are on the rise...


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## deadheadskier (Aug 28, 2014)

Age isn't the issue in this town. Median age is 33.  (State average is 41) 73% of the population in town is younger than 45.  Only 8.4% of the residents are seniors over the age of 65.  Very young town.


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## xwhaler (Aug 28, 2014)

How many folks living in Newmarket are college students or those renting right after college? Even if they are establishing Newmarket as their primary residence I wonder how invested they are in the long term of the town? Do they come out to vote and/or really care about whether a school gets built?

I could be way wrong but my perception of Newmarket is that it is largely the younger crowd you mentioned using it as a base to get to UNH. I also know know some older people who have downsized from other towns/bigger homes and moved into the new mill development downtown.
They have done some very nice things with the downtown in the last 5-10 or so yrs to be sure.


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## 4aprice (Aug 28, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> I second this, at Gore, Whiteface , Platty Hunter , Windahm , Bell, see I not being picky lol.



You will need to get a handle on who might be interested in this GTG.  Nick & co. would be coming from the Boston area and many others from the NYC area.  Whiteface would be the most remote, Windham and Hunter probably the closest and easiest.  Plattekill the most fun but, also pretty remote for people coming from the eastern reaches of NE. (heck it's pretty remote from NNJ).  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## deadheadskier (Aug 28, 2014)

Quite a few.  Of the 10K residents in town, roughly 3200 voted on the new school issue.  It's still very much a college town, but the demographics seem to be shifting a bit.  Lots of young professionals have moved into the mills.  If they choose to stay and raise families in single family homes in town, that could swing the pendulum some more on school support.


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## St. Bear (Aug 28, 2014)

4aprice said:


> You will need to get a handle on who might be interested in this GTG.  Nick & co. would be coming from the Boston area and many others from the NYC area.  Whiteface would be the most remote, Windham and Hunter probably the closest and easiest.  Plattekill the most fun but, also pretty remote for people coming from the eastern reaches of NE. (heck it's pretty remote from NNJ).
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



I would vote for Lake Placid.  Yes, it the furthest, but if we're going to go through the effort, we might as well do it right.  Kind of like having Sugarloaf for the AZ Summit.  It gives people a destination that they might not otherwise get to.


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 28, 2014)

Love to have you NE and Middle Atlantic skiers come up here and play in the Daks , Gore and Whiteface are superb and Lake George and Lake Placid are both fun spots for off hill stuff .


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## Smellytele (Aug 28, 2014)

Think I am heading to LP beginning of March. 12th-15th


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## Savemeasammy (Aug 28, 2014)

Both Whiteface and Gore appeal to me, and both are a bit outside of day trip range.  A GTG at either for an overnight or 2 might be something I could do.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 28, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Think I am heading to LP beginning of March. 12th-15th



You cant plan on going to Whiteface, you have to let Whiteface tell you when to come.  Trust me on this.


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## 4aprice (Aug 28, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> You cant plan on going to Whiteface, you have to let Whiteface tell you when to come.  Trust me on this.



My experience is, even then you are taking a chance.  Never been there with good conditions.  Wife will never go back.  Impressive mountain though and I'm sure a blast under good conditions.

I could go for a AZ/Harvey Road weekend at Magic then Plattekill with an over night in the Albany Area.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Smellytele (Aug 28, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> You cant plan on going to Whiteface, you have to let Whiteface tell you when to come.  Trust me on this.



I actually went 2 years ago and hit it at the right time. Snowed everyday (lightly) and there was no wind holds...


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 28, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> I actually went 2 years ago and hit it at the right time. *Snowed everyday (lightly) and there was no wind holds...*



That's amazing. You should have bought a Mega Millions ticket.


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## AdironRider (Aug 28, 2014)

As much of a Whiteface homer that I was, and still am to some extent, Benedict is right here. 

It can be a bit skied off if they haven't seen anything for a few weeks. One nice thing though is they don't get nearly the freeze thaw cycles that the rest of the NE deals with.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 28, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> You cant plan on going to Whiteface, you have to let Whiteface tell you when to come.  Trust me on this.


Only skied there twice so I'm no expert on the place. Both times were excellent.


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## 〽❄❅ (Aug 29, 2014)

My vote is Gore, closer for us mid atlantic people.


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 29, 2014)

4aprice said:


> My experience is, even then you are taking a chance.  Never been there with good conditions.  Wife will never go back.  Impressive mountain though and I'm sure a blast under good conditions.
> 
> I could go for a AZ/Harvey Road weekend at Magic then Plattekill with an over night in the Albany Area.
> 
> ...




Alex : Try Gore !!!! Its is the real deal with beaucoup options for all


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## 4aprice (Aug 29, 2014)

Warp Daddy said:


> Alex : Try Gore !!!! Its is the real deal with beaucoup options for all



WD Been to Gore and loved it.  Lots of new there that I would love to check out too.  (wish discounts were easier to come by)  My suggestions of the Catskill areas are solely due to the fact that you've got guys/gals like Nick coming from the Boston area and others coming from the NYC area.  As I said WF is the furthest of all but Gore while fairly easy (not as easy as a Catskill run) for me IMO would not be easy for people coming from Eastern New England areas.  If they want to travel that far it would be no problem for me to get to Gore.  Spend a decent amount of time in the Lake George area as it is.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## steamboat1 (Aug 29, 2014)

In my world Gore or Whiteface would be cool. From Pittsford, VT. Gore is 1 1/2 hours, Whiteface 2 hrs. Very doable for a day trip from where i hang in VT.. On the other hand the Catskills are 3 hours or better no matter whether I leave from Pittsford, VT. or Brooklyn, NY. I understand others have different departure points. Just giving my perspective.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 29, 2014)

I think Gore would make the most sense in terms of: mean travel for most folks + quality of skiing.   

The problem with Gore is the lack of lodging, but if people are cool staying 45'ish minutes from the mountain it's not a problem.


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## mriceyman (Aug 31, 2014)

Theyre are some motels close if youre not looking for luxury


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## goldsbar (Aug 31, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Rent has had a negative stigma in this country for far too long.
> 
> Historically speaking, rent HAS been the poorer choice in most markets, to the point where if you ask most people, they'll tell you you're _"wasting money" _by renting, and that home ownership is always a better choice.



Brought to you by your not-so-local real estate agent and mortgage banker lobbyists!  Home ownership is generally a mediocre investment at best in all but boom markets when you consider all of the maintenance and tax costs.

Not sure the Adirondacks are that much better (but still better).  The wind at both NYS owned areas can be ferocious, with fresh snow blowing into woods which still often don't have decent coverage.  All northeast areas get freeze thaw, but the 'Daks can really freeze.  The longer I'm at this sport, the more constrained my choices have become.  Belleayre because it's 2 hours and good enough with the friendly bump and woods policy, occasional Pkill if I can hit it right because it's really a special place, Sugarbush because it can be awesome (compared to anywhere, not just NE) and the weekly trip with a plane ticket.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 1, 2014)

Ask any financial planner how good an investment home ownership is...

And speaking of the Vermont economy and the great socialist experiment, Vermont was the ONLY state last year where housing prices fell.  Here is the article: http://vtdigger.org/2014/08/31/states-housing-market-lags/


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## Harvey (Sep 1, 2014)

Sorry been completely checked out on one of the best vacations I can remember.

Interesting thread, two of my favorite topics. NY skiing and rent vs buy.  (What else did I miss).

IMO renting is probably better if you discount any (non-tangible or emotional) value you might get from "owning" AND you INVEST (vs spend) all that money you are saving.

Regarding the suggestion about an organized NY ski thing... where do AZers live?  NYSB peeps are about 70% NY/NJ with a big part of that in Albany and NYC DMAs.  Are you guys thinking of a day trip or two days?  I've done many two days weekends with Plattekill and Gore.  Love the drive up Route 30. Maybe a Friday/Saturday thing and you'd have the option to play Sunday by ear (Hickory!  ).

Undoubtedly Nick has far better organization skills than I do, so I'm not sure I can be much help there. But I might be able to help with ticket  and or lodging deals.  Be great to debunk the idea that there is no place to stay in North Creek.  (Maybe not easy to do, but great to do it!)  

I've never paid for a room to ski. What would you guys consider a good price?

Think about what 50 or 100 additional lift tickets would mean to Plattekill.  If I could help get that done it would be worth the effort for sure.


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## St. Bear (Sep 1, 2014)

Platty/Gore on a Fri/Sat sounds great.

Maybe have it on one of the weekends that WF does their Super Sunday deal for those of us who would be interested. Flexibility is the king of the East.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 1, 2014)

Harvey said:


> * Be great to debunk the idea that there is no place to stay in North Creek.*



I didnt realize that, so put me down for one of the clueless ones.  When I've skied Gore the last few years I've stayed in Rhinebeck (about 1/2-way point) at gf's family, woke up early, and drove the last 2h 15m.



Harvey said:


> *Think about what 50 or 100 additional lift tickets would mean to Plattekill.*  If I could help get that done it would be worth the effort for sure.



I'm game for pretty much anything that can help that place, financially or otherwise. I wish I didnt live so far away.



St. Bear said:


> *Platty/Gore on a Fri/Sat sounds great.*



I love the Platty/Gore idea, but just for realistically getting the largest headcount possible I think it should be Saturday/Sunday.  Plus, zero crowds at Platty on Saturday, then hit Gore with the lesser Sunday crowds.


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## Harvey (Sep 1, 2014)

Thinking out loud again.

If you stay in NC for 2 nights, Fri and Sat then it's Plattekill Friday, and your choice Saturday and/or Sunday at Gore or Whiteface. Not sure how that works with advance tickets, but it might.

For me, after driving to and from Plattekill the night before, I'll want to get up and go to Gore, saving the audible for Sunday.

If Hickory got in there somehow, all the better.


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## x10003q (Sep 2, 2014)

If you want to do this right pick Catskills or Adirondacks.

Catskills would be ski Hunter Friday and Plattekill Saturday and Sunday or try Belleayre or Windham on Sunday. Staying in Hunter can be a good time.

Adirondacks would be ski Gore on Friday and stay in Gore. Saturday morning drive the 1:10 up to Whiteface for the day(unless conditions suck or there are wind issues), return to Gore and ski Gore Sunday. There are decent deals to be had for renting townhouses in North Creek (Gore) that throw in the 3rd night for the price of 2 nights. If you are lucky maybe Hickory is open on Sunday and you can ski that on the way home. Hickory is about 30 minutes south of Gore.

Another option for the Adirondacks would be stay in Lake Placid and ski Whiteface Friday and Saturday and ski Gore on Sunday on the way home.


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## 〽❄❅ (Sep 2, 2014)

x10003q said:


> If you want to do this right pick Catskills or Adirondacks.


Agreed, i say do the Dax. Leave the Cats for day trip'in.


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