# Racial maps of the USA



## legalskier (Sep 27, 2010)

I thought we were further along than this.  

E.g., NYC:





Red: caucasian; blue: African-American; yellow: Hispanic.  
Click here for others: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315078/Race-maps-America.html

Boston:




http://texarrakis.com/journals/gene/maps-racial-segregation

:-o  
Any thoughts?


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## dmc (Sep 27, 2010)

People tend to like to live with the same type of people...   

It's no shock to me..


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## mondeo (Sep 27, 2010)

legalskier said:


> I thought we were further along than this.


Association does not imply causation. Reality is we're only about 40 years removed from legal segregation, and the economic impacts take a while to wash out; the children of the poor tend to be poor as well, no matter the color of the skin, which makes it hard to leave a neighborhood. Also, immigrants have always been poor. Immigrants will tend to move into poorer neighborhoods with ties to their homeland. It's always happened, be it the Irish, Germans, Poles, or Mexicans.

They're maps of race, not racism. Too easy to jump to a bleeding-heart explanation and say we're still evil racists rather than dig a little bit and actually ask why.


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## snowmonster (Sep 27, 2010)

I guess that green splotch in the middle of Boston is Chinatown.


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## riverc0il (Sep 27, 2010)

One important concept to remember when looking at race separation is that it is often times self imposed. We don't live in a country that allows for enforced segregation. But people who are like each other do tend to naturally self separate themselves from others.

Yes, there are culture and class issues at play. And those born into a poor family are likely to stay poor more than someone from the upper class becoming poor. Blah blah blah. But what about poor whites vs poor blacks? Same separation issues. 

These types of maps are less about "how far along we are" versus human nature in wanting to stay grouped together with those most similar to ourselves. 

Another issue is how individuals self identify since interracial marriage is more accepted and more babies are had between different raced parents. People might identify with those that are most similar to them in their own neighborhoods rather than any other aspect. How do you self identify a black or white classification when you are 50/50? Or even further split at the generations continue?

I think it would be interesting to see a similar map cross referenced with college education. I bet you'd see more intermixing in locales that have a higher percentage of college education. That goes along with that whole "being around those most similar to you". I think the college graduate demographic is an amazingly powerful identifier (both self and group).


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## snoseek (Sep 27, 2010)

I have been the little blue dot in the sea of yellow. I wish skiing as an activity wasn't so white


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## snowmonster (Sep 27, 2010)

^ I think this will change as the demographics of the country change.


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## mondeo (Sep 27, 2010)

snowmonster said:


> ^ I think this will change as the demographics of the country change.


Some, maybe. But there are still Italian, Irish, etc. sections of cities, over a hundred years past their immigration waves. Homogeneity increases over time, but it isn't that quick a process.


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## snowmonster (Sep 27, 2010)

Agree, mondeo. But, I was actually referring to snoseek's comment about our sport being predominantly caucasian.


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## mondeo (Sep 27, 2010)

snowmonster said:


> Agree, mondeo. But, I was actually referring to snoseek's comment about our sport being predominantly caucasian.


Ah, got it now. I'd expect racial diversity in snowsliding to go along with the middle class and up that the sport draws from, with some cultural lag.


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## Mapnut (Sep 28, 2010)

Aside from class, I'd say the whiteness of skiing comes from the northern, mountainous or at least snowy regions being nearly all white (people, I mean), due to migration history.  Thus all the champions, teachers and trend-setters come from there (and of course Europe).  Kudos to all the blacks, Hispanics and other urbanites who cross the cultural line to find out what they've been missing!

Asians, of course, will try anything.


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## ctenidae (Sep 28, 2010)




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## legalskier (Sep 28, 2010)

I’ve worked in the inner city for 25 years now with, and for, the locals, so I’ll speak from experience. Property values are the primary driver. Certain areas cost less to live in, and that’s obviously where the poor live. Residential areas bordering industrial/commercial areas or railroads & highways, mixed use areas, flood prone areas, with high density populations and failing schools are where you will find them. (Look at how the low lying areas of New Orleans got hit the hardest by Katrina, which affected the poor the most.)  These people don’t have much choice; they can't buy homes in Alpine. However, within those poor areas they do have some choice, i.e. choosing between the African-American poor areas or the Hispanic poor areas. The “old” ethnic groups (German, Irish, Italian, Jewish, etc.) have for the most part gone to the burbs, with a few rare exceptions. What puzzles me is that many African-American families whose ancestors stretch back further than many of said “old” ethnic groups have not made similar gains. They’ve stayed where they are, and believe me, they don’t want to be there. (In an effort to redress this, the NJ Supreme Court created the controversial Mount Laurel Doctrine to make municipalities use their zoning powers to create affordable housing opportunities outside the cities. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Laurel_doctrine] Other states have followed suit.)
So what’s the explanation? Let me offer this: When I walk through a jail, prison or detention center, or the waiting rooms of criminal courts, what are the colors of the faces I look into?  I’ll tell you- not many whites. So, does that mean whites don't commit crimes?  “The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html)  
For most Americans, it’s all “out of sight, out of mind.” But I see it every day. I wish I were as confident as some who feel there’s no longer any racism at work in this country, however subtle. I hope you’re right that this will all wash out over time, but at least in the case of African-Americans, there’s been plenty of time. 
Thank you for your time.


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## powpig2002 (Sep 28, 2010)

i'm not moving to compton


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## mondeo (Sep 28, 2010)

legalskier said:


> What puzzles me is that many African-American families whose ancestors stretch back further than many of said “old” ethnic groups have not made similar gains. They’ve stayed where they are, and believe me, they don’t want to be there. (In an effort to redress this, the NJ Supreme Court created the controversial Mount Laurel Doctrine to make municipalities use their zoning powers to create affordable housing opportunities outside the cities. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Laurel_doctrine] Other states have followed suit.)
> So what’s the explanation? Let me offer this: When I walk through a jail, prison or detention center, or the waiting rooms of criminal courts, what are the colors of the faces I look into? I’ll tell you- not many whites. So, does that mean whites don't commit crimes? “The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html)
> For most Americans, it’s all “out of sight, out of mind.” But I see it every day. I wish I were as confident as some who feel there’s no longer any racism at work in this country, however subtle. I hope you’re right that this will all wash out over time, but at least in the case of African-Americans, there’s been plenty of time.
> Thank you for your time.


Non-whites were legally economically suppressed up to 40 years ago. The older ethnic groups were accepted by society before the first wave of urban flight. The suburbs were created hand in hand with the Irish, German, Italian, etc. communities moving out of the city alongside those with English roots, back when manufacturing jobs (which are less strongly tied to upbringing) were enough to fund the move.

Do minorities commit more crimes? Overall, probably no. Crimes that get you put in jail, yes. Robbery, open drug dealing, etc., minorities probably have a higher crime rate than the general population. But if you take a look at the economic and geographic distribution in jails and the corresponding racial makeup in that same spread of general society, I'd bet it would match pretty well. Poverty drives crime and the continuation of poverty. Most people don't steal because they enjoy it, they do it because they want something they can't afford. Most drug dealers start out because it's the best option they perceive themselves to have. Just like the grunts in the Mafia started out because it was a way to respect and out of a lower income class.

Correlation does not imply causation.


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## legalskier (Sep 28, 2010)

mondeo said:


> But if you take a look at the economic and geographic distribution in jails and the corresponding racial makeup in that same spread of general society, I'd bet it would match pretty well.



Well, actually....

_*General population*
The racial composition of the US population as of 2008 was *79.79% White* American (65.60% non-Hispanic and *14.19% Hispanic*), *12.84% African American* (12.22% non-Hispanic and 0.62% Hispanic), 4.45% Asian American (4.35% non-Hispanic and 0.10% Hispanic), 1.01% American Indian or Alaska Native (0.76% non-Hispanic and 0.25% Hispanic), 0.18% Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander American (0.14% non-Hispanic and 0.04% Hispanic), and 1.69% Multiracial American (1.64% non-Hispanic and 0.05% Hispanic). 15.25% of the total US population identified their ethnicity as Hispanic.
*Prison population*...
The racial composition of the US prison and jail population as of 2008 was *33.44% White* American (non-Hispanic), *20.29% Hispanic*, *40.21% African American* (non-Hispanic), and 6.06% Other (American Indian, Alaska Native, Asian American, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander American, and Multiracial American)_
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States


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## mondeo (Sep 28, 2010)

legalskier said:


> Well, actually....
> 
> _*General population*_
> _The racial composition of the US population as of 2008 was *79.79% White* American (65.60% non-Hispanic and *14.19% Hispanic*), *12.84% African American* (12.22% non-Hispanic and 0.62% Hispanic), 4.45% Asian American (4.35% non-Hispanic and 0.10% Hispanic), 1.01% American Indian or Alaska Native (0.76% non-Hispanic and 0.25% Hispanic), 0.18% Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander American (0.14% non-Hispanic and 0.04% Hispanic), and 1.69% Multiracial American (1.64% non-Hispanic and 0.05% Hispanic). 15.25% of the total US population identified their ethnicity as Hispanic._
> ...


And point _completely_ missed, typical example of the abuse of statistics.


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## ctenidae (Sep 28, 2010)

What do ethnic maps of European cities look like? I bet there's pretty serious divides in Paris, London,a dn Berlin, and incredible uniformity of color (ie red) in most northern European cities.


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## legalskier (Sep 28, 2010)

mondeo said:


> And point _completely_ missed, typical example of the abuse of statistics.



Whatever. You know best.


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## marcski (Sep 28, 2010)

It is going to take a lot more than a black man in the white house to eradicate racism in our country. It's hard to fathom..but our constitution (at the least in its original form) basically says that black people are only worth 60% of what white people are worth.  So, at least IMHO, all of those stats about prison populations, racial segregation etc....are, unfortunately, of no surprise at all.


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## Riverskier (Sep 28, 2010)

powpig2002 said:


> i'm not moving to compton



No kidding!


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## deadheadskier (Sep 28, 2010)

powpig2002 said:


> i'm not moving to compton





Riverskier said:


> No kidding!



You guys being from Maine will appreciate this.

Another contributing factor towards location / distribution of race are 'refugee host cities'.   In Maine, Lewiston and Portland are both such cities.

Lewiston is a city of roughly 35K.  The Somali population is over 5K.   That's significant in a state that is 97% white.


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## riverc0il (Sep 28, 2010)

legalskier said:


> Well, actually....
> 
> _*General population*
> The racial composition of the US population as of 2008 was *79.79% White* American (65.60% non-Hispanic and *14.19% Hispanic*), *12.84% African American* (12.22% non-Hispanic and 0.62% Hispanic), 4.45% Asian American (4.35% non-Hispanic and 0.10% Hispanic), 1.01% American Indian or Alaska Native (0.76% non-Hispanic and 0.25% Hispanic), 0.18% Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander American (0.14% non-Hispanic and 0.04% Hispanic), and 1.69% Multiracial American (1.64% non-Hispanic and 0.05% Hispanic). 15.25% of the total US population identified their ethnicity as Hispanic.
> ...


Can we get a cross reference against economic status and college education? Let's also not over look that those with poor prospects for economic gains are more likely to turn towards criminal activity more likely to land them in jail. Juries are more likely to commit drug offenses than white collar crime. Let's look at poor whites on par with poor blacks in economic status instead of all whites and all blacks. Not comparative. Are there built in systematic issues at work that make it difficult for blacks to advance economically? Yes. But those same issues are in place for poor whites too. There just happened to be fewer poor whites than poor blacks to begin with. There are systematic issues at work and to a limited extent racism is not gone and will likely always be something the criminal justice system needs to look out for. But there is something else at play here that is not intentional nor completely systematic. A historic starting place economically negative effects all races.


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## mondeo (Sep 28, 2010)

legalskier said:


> Whatever. You know best.


42% of states have laws against employment discrimination with regard to sexual orientation. No states that begin with the letter A have such laws. Obviously, being in a state that begins with the letter A causes that state to not pass these laws.

Cattle rustling, I'd guess, is a charge that has whites representing more than 80% of the convictions. Embezzelment, same story. Juries in these cases must be biased against whites. It can't be that in rural populations where cattle rustling occurs whites make up more than 80% of the population, or positions in companies where embezzeling becomes easier tend to be more predominantly white.

Glass ceiling for women is another classic example of statistics abuse. Obviously, the percentage of women CEOs right now is indicitive of current discrimination, not 30-40 years ago when the current crop of CEOs started working.

riverc0il was probably clearer in his explanation of the point I was trying to get at. But you'll never see a multivariate study of crime rate with income, race, educational background, etc. Partly because a lot of the necessary data isn't collected (income for convicted offenders, for example,) partly because it's so complex a system to actually seperate the influence of race for, and partly because the results from such a study would be correspondingly complex to the point that it wouldn't see the light of day outside of a social sciences journal.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 28, 2010)

i wonder how many of those caucasians in nyc are italiano's like myself


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