# SKI Magazine 2016-17 Eastern Resort Rankings



## WWF-VT (Sep 21, 2016)

FWIW.... 

2016-2017 Eastern Top 20

1. Tremblant
2. Stowe
3. Whiteface
4, Killington
5. Smuggler's Notch
6. Sugarbush
7. Sunday River
8. Sugarloaf
9. Jay Peak
10. Okemo
11. Mt. Snow
12. Bretton Woods
13. Stratton
14. Loon Mountain
15. Gore
16. Cannon
17. Mad River Glen
18. Mt. Sunapee
19. Snowshoe
20. Wildcat


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

People tend to melt down over these lists, but that's not too terrible IMO. It's not how I'd rank them, but for the average ski vacationing family it seems reasonable.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 21, 2016)

I don't remember Mont Sainte Anne ever making the cut but in my opinion it should.


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## joshua segal (Sep 21, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I don't remember Mont Sainte Anne ever making the cut but in my opinion it should.



Agree that both Le Massif and Mt. St. Anne are superior to most of the resorts in this list, but they are beyond the travel range of most eastern skiers.

First list of this kind I've seen without Holiday Valley from WNY   The top 10 are all of 2K vertical.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 21, 2016)

No Holiday Valley this year?


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 21, 2016)

And I agree that this list looks better than those of the past. Not perfect for my tastes but pretty solid.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 21, 2016)




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## Jully (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> People tend to melt down over these lists, but that's not too terrible IMO. It's not how I'd rank them, but for the average ski vacationing family it seems reasonable.



I'm surprised that Whiteface is so far up there with the average ski family as the 'source' for the ranking. Lake Placid is great, sure, but the skiing at Whiteface itself I've never thought of as pro vacationing family.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

I've never skied there, but have been to Lake Placid in the fall. I assume things like lodging, apres, restaurants and off hill activities have a strong influence on the rankings. LP/WF probably ranks top five in all those categories and I'd guess number 1 for off hill activities.


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## Jully (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I've never skied there, but have been to Lake Placid in the fall. I assume things like lodging, apres, restaurants and off hill activities have a strong influence on the rankings. LP/WF probably ranks top five in all those categories and I'd guess number 1 for off hill activities.



That's a good point. I suppose I forget that for many, ski vacations are not 100%, or even 70% driven by the skiing.


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## cdskier (Sep 21, 2016)

Wow...no Holiday Valley for a change. Not the order I would rank the resorts, but not terrible overall compared to some other years. The only one in the top 10 that I don't think deserves to be there would be Okemo. I would put Gore above Okemo for skiing (but I'm sure Gore loses points for the lack of lodging, off-hill activities, etc).

Did they provide a breakdown of individual rankings (i.e. rankings for Best terrain, Most challenging, etc)?


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## Jully (Sep 21, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Wow...no Holiday Valley for a change. Not the order I would rank the resorts, but not terrible overall compared to some other years. The only one in the top 10 that I don't think deserves to be there would be Okemo. I would put Gore above Okemo for skiing (but I'm sure Gore loses points for the lack of lodging, off-hill activities, etc).
> 
> Did they provide a breakdown of individual rankings (i.e. rankings for Best terrain, Most challenging, etc)?



I always find the breakdown of individual rankings actually informative sometimes and at a minimum way more fun. Best grooming is usually a funny one!


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

Hopefully Wildcat making the top 20 doesn't increase Saturday lift lines at the quad from 3 to 4 minutes or I'll be pissed.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 21, 2016)

Very interesting list.  And very interesting that Holiday Valley is not on there.


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## Smellytele (Sep 21, 2016)

All I would say is that there are 6 on that list that are not resorts.  Where as they do not have lodging on site.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 21, 2016)

Gore should be much higher than #15 if we're just talking about skiing, the problem is, very few (relatively speaking) people have skied there, which hurts them in polling.  And yes, lack of nightlife and "things to do" hurts them too.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 21, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> All I would say is that there are 6 on that list that are not resorts.  Where as they do not have lodging on site.



But there again is the issue--what is the metric they are using?  Best ski area?  Best resort?  Who is doing to assessment?


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 21, 2016)

Jully said:


> I'm *surprised that Whiteface is so far up there with the average ski family as the 'source' for the ranking. Lake Placid is great, sure, but the skiing at Whiteface itself I've never thought of as pro vacationing family.*



Lake Placid is the #1 ski town in the east (sorry Stowe), hands down.  That's definitely the reason for the high ranking.  That said, if you hit Whiteface with great conditions, it's as good as anywhere in the east, and with longer runs.  Spectacular.  Though, hitting Whiteface with great conditions is a bit of a Brigadoon problem.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

No such thing as "hands down." That's an entirely personal opinion. I have only been once and as such I couldn't qualify as better or worse than Stowe.  I know people who think N. Conway is better than Stowe. I don't and N. Conway is my primary hang these days.  Some prefer the MRV to Stowe. There are others who prefer the Killington access road vibe.


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## abc (Sep 21, 2016)

Jully said:


> I'm surprised that Whiteface is so far up there with the average ski family as the 'source' for the ranking. Lake Placid is great, sure, but the skiing at Whiteface itself I've never thought of as pro vacationing family.


The village of LP definitely make up for it when the skiing isn't good. Been there, done that. 

When the skiing is good, the town doesn't matter quite as much because you're on the mountain from bell to bell. And you're dog tired by the time you wolf down your dinner. You only care about going to bed and getting up early the next day...

But this is the east. How often you end up with great condition on a pre-planned trip? (storm chaser excluded). 

So, not just for families, but for the average skier who's up for a random weekend, the chance of so-so condition is high and what "other things" to do in town can really salvage a miserable weekend of boiler plate ice skating!


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## cdskier (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> No such thing as "hands down." That's an entirely personal opinion. I have only been once and as such I couldn't qualify as better or worse than Stowe.  I know people who think N. Conway is better than Stowe. I don't and N. Conway is my primary hang these days.  Some prefer the MRV to Stowe. There are others who prefer the Killington access road vibe.



Yes, it is very subjective. I myself enjoy the low-key MRV style vibe.


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## cdskier (Sep 21, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> But there again is the issue--what is the metric they are using?  Best ski area?  Best resort?  Who is doing to assessment?



Isn't it usually based off reader surveys for Ski and/or Skiing? I know back when I subscribed they sent me the survey once or twice.  That right there limits your potential pool of where the results are coming from and potentially skews the results certain ways.


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## crank (Sep 21, 2016)

Whiteface always ranks high in terrain because of it's long steepish groomers.  Not my thing but some folks seem to like that.  I have been when conditions were quite good, but never on a true powder day.  It would be a lot of fun skiing those groomers with a foot of pow on top!  I like LP but what makes it special, IMO, is the olympic facilities and the history.

I would definitely rank Ste. Anne and Le Massif in the top 10.  For a really fun ski trip stay in Quebec...just bring lots of layers!  Or fur, fur is big there.


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## JimG. (Sep 21, 2016)

crank said:


> I would definitely rank Ste. Anne and Le Massif in the top 10.  For a really fun ski trip stay in Quebec...just bring lots of layers!  Or fur, fur is big there.



Heh, last season we noticed that very European touch with the fur. Fur coats, fur boots, etc.


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## xwhaler (Sep 21, 2016)

1st season since I can remember that Saddleback is not on one of these lists :sad:


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## Smellytele (Sep 21, 2016)

Saying Whiteface is to Lake Placid is like saying Cannon is to Lincoln. Both about 10 miles apart.


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 21, 2016)

I never put much faith into these rankings as they're driven by marketing etc, but top ten looks pretty good from a skier's perspective, with the exception of Okemo.  Oh wait, did I say that out loud....LOL


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## steamboat1 (Sep 21, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Saying Whiteface is to Lake Placid is like saying Cannon is to Lincoln. Both about 10 miles apart.


It's 8 miles from Stowe the ski area to Stowe the town.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 21, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Isn't it usually based off reader surveys for Ski and/or Skiing? I know back when I subscribed they sent me the survey once or twice.  That right there limits your potential pool of where the results are coming from and potentially skews the results certain ways.



Exactly.  I know one of the lists is based on a survey...which is really why Holiday Valley was always on the list (not to take away from them).  Holiday Valley always actively encouraged their skiers and riders to do these surveys.


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## Smellytele (Sep 21, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> It's 8 miles from Stowe the ski area to Stowe the town.


But there is lodging at the ski area unlike Whiteface. Actually there is even lodging at Cannon (mittersil)


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## 4aprice (Sep 21, 2016)

Interesting that the 3 I have not been to on the list are 3 I will probably never get to as they are outside my comfortable driving range.  When the drive gets longer then a flight, I opt for the flight.  The other 17 are quite doable for a weekend warrior out of the NYC area.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## benski (Sep 21, 2016)

Many people stay off mountain at every resort so why disqualify Whiteface for having only off mountain lodging.


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## benski (Sep 21, 2016)

Snowshoe should be in a separate category since its so far away from the other resorts that I doubt many people are choosing between Snowshoe and New England/ADK.


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## Jully (Sep 21, 2016)

benski said:


> Snowshoe should be in a separate category since its so far away from the other resorts that I doubt many people are choosing between Snowshoe and New England/ADK.



Yes and no. For those who live in PA, Maryland, and even southern NJ the drive time is either equivalent or shorter to Snowshoe than say, Stowe. For many flying is not an option, and while the skiing is certainly not comparable between the two, that matters less for your average family.

I do generally agree with you though.


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## x10003q (Sep 21, 2016)

Jully said:


> Yes and no. For those who live in PA, Maryland, and even southern NJ the drive time is either equivalent or shorter to Snowshoe than say, Stowe. For many flying is not an option, and while the skiing is certainly not comparable between the two, that matters less for your average family.
> 
> I do generally agree with you though.



I would say practically nobody from Philly, NE PA and all of NJ ever heads to Snowshoe.  Philly to Snowshoe is approximately 7 hours - same time to MRG. That only leaves about 16 better skiing choices many hours closer than Snowshoe. Depending on where you are in Philly, Hunter/Belleayre/Windham/Plattekill are only around 4 hours away and have way better skiing than Snowshoe. 

After finally eliminating Holiday Valley and Seven Springs, they still couldn't help themselves and put Snowshoe on the list.


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## joshua segal (Sep 21, 2016)

benski said:


> Snowshoe should be in a separate category since its so far away from the other resorts that I doubt many people are choosing between Snowshoe and New England/ADK.


Agree.  That being said, how did Snowshoe make it and Holiday Valley not?  They both seem like similar areas with similar "out-of-ski-country" markets.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Agree.  That being said, how did Snowshoe make it and Holiday Valley not?  They both seem like similar areas with similar "out-of-ski-country" markets.



I haven't been to Holiday Valley, but I don't think people in New England appreciate how big time of a resort Snowshoe is. The slopeside village feels like you're at a Colorado resort, not east coast. To give an appreciation of scale, it's probably five times the size of the development at Stowes Spruce Peak.  Great restaurants, bars and apres ski, loads of special events, 200" of snow and a legit 1500 vertical off the back side.  500k skier visit a year destination. A large amount of the clientele I met were wealthy people from Atlanta or Charlotte metros who would do a Snowshoe week and Western week each season.  With those kinds of attributes it's surprising to me that Snowshoe doesn't make the top 20 every year.


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## Smellytele (Sep 21, 2016)

benski said:


> Many people stay off mountain at every resort so why disqualify Whiteface for having only off mountain lodging.



It says "Resort" not "Ski area"


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## Breakout12 (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I haven't been to Holiday Valley, but I don't think people in New England appreciate how big time of a resort Snowshoe is. The slopeside village feels like you're at a Colorado resort, not east coast. To give an appreciation of scale, it's probably five times the size of the development at Stowes Spruce Peak.  Great restaurants, bars and apres ski, loads of special events, 200" of snow and a legit 1500 vertical off the back side.  500k skier visit a year destination. A large amount of the clientele I met were wealthy people from Atlanta or Charlotte metros who would do a Snowshoe week and Western week each season.  With those kinds of attributes it's surprising to me that Snowshoe doesn't make the top 20 every year.



I'm in Toronto and one of my dreams is to go to Snowshoe.  I'd never heard of it until a few years ago, but relatives in NC sure know of it.  As you said, the village looks awesome.  Just Street View it.  It just looks like a really cool,  upscale place.  That, and it's one of the few places where you start at the top.


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## cdskier (Sep 21, 2016)

Breakout12 said:


> That, and it's one of the few places where you start at the top.



I learned to ski at a place where you start at the top...nothing special! :razz:


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

I won't say the skiing is great at Snowshoe, though it can be off the backside. Most of it is pretty tame and around 600 vert.  

But the mountain top village sits higher than any lift serviced skiing in the Northeast. 4700+ with a pretty crazy access road to get up there.  I'm in no rush to head back there as New England offers so much more, but it was a cool experience living there.


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## Tin (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> But the mountain top village sits higher than any lift serviced skiing in the Northeast. 4700+ with a pretty crazy access road to get up there.  I'm in no rush to head back there as New England offers so much more, but it was a cool experience living there.




You fit in with these folks better than your seacoast neighbors....


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## slatham (Sep 21, 2016)

I grew up in the DC area and made several treks to Snowshoe. It is a surprisingly legit Mountian with significant elevation for cold and a true 200" a year. It also has a day or two every year where it offers the best skiing on the east coast, oftentimes the best in the country, if you use accumulated snow as your criteria. Sometimes this is from mid Atlantic storms, but usually it's lake effect that rivals the tug hill.


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## dlague (Sep 21, 2016)

On think Cannon should be ranked better than Mount Snow but as someone mentioned from a family perspective it is a decent order.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> No such thing as "hands down." That's an entirely personal opinion.



Ummmmm....... okay?


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 21, 2016)

benski said:


> Snowshoe should be in a separate category since its so far away from the other resorts that I doubt many people are choosing between Snowshoe and New England/ADK.



I imagine Snowshoe and Mont Tremblant both benefit in the polling due to a high number of very localized votes.  Especially MT, given a population of a few million people nearby, many of whom likely have skied few other areas on the list.


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## joshua segal (Sep 21, 2016)

benski said:


> Snowshoe should be in a separate category since its so far away from the other resorts that I doubt many people are choosing between Snowshoe and New England/ADK.


You're right.  They used to have one list.  Then they realized that Eastern skiing and western skiing were so different, so they started having an east list and a west list.  Perhaps they should have a third list with top 5 mid-Atlantic/SE list and a top 10 list for the midwest.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 21, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> Ummmmm....... okay?



Did I stutter? I was simply implying that you, nor anyone else, is the authority on what what makes the best ski town. 

If your intention was just to state what you like best, it certainly didn't come across that way to me.


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## EPB (Sep 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Did I stutter? I was simply implying that you, nor anyone else, is the authority on what what makes the best ski town.
> 
> If your intention was just to state what you like best, it certainly didn't come across that way to me.



In his head one place could be better than another "hands down." That's the way I read it.


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## cdskier (Sep 21, 2016)

Interesting to see who went down and who went up compared to last year...

Tremblant    -
Stowe    -
Whiteface    +2
Killington    +3
Smuggler's Notch    -1
Sugarbush    +6
Sunday River    +1
Sugarloaf    +3
Jay Peak    -3
Okemo    -1
Mt. Snow    -1
Bretton Woods    +1
Stratton    +4
Loon Mountain    +5
Gore    New
Cannon    +2
Mad River Glen    -2
Mt. Sunapee    New
Snowshoe    New
Wildcat     -4

So 3 areas are now in the top 20 that didn't make it on last year's list (Gore, Mt Sunapee, and Snowshoe). The 3 that didn't make it this year were Holiday Valley (#3 last year), Attitash (#14 last year), and Waterville Valley (#20 last year).

I still am really curious how Holiday Valley went from #3 last year (and being consistently in the top 10 pretty much every year that I can remember) to not even being in the top 20 this year. That's bizarre to see that much of a drop. Personally I never thought it belonged there anyway, but that doesn't change how strange it is for it to disappear after all these years unless they changed the criteria.


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## joshua segal (Sep 22, 2016)

I'm glad to see Killington move up.  I think it clearly shows how the work of Mike Salomano is making a difference at a customer level.  They've stopped shrinking and they have reclaimed their reputation for the early/late season product. And while they haven't really started to grow again, they've stopped the bleeding and they are doing a lot of catch-up deferred maintenance on their infrastructure.

I do think that if Sugarbush and Killington were both the same distance from the major population centers, that Sugarbush would beat Killington - hands down; but if you moved Snowshoe to New England, it wouldn't come close to this list.  But then again, if grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon.


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## Jully (Sep 22, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I haven't been to Holiday Valley, but I don't think people in New England appreciate how big time of a resort Snowshoe is. The slopeside village feels like you're at a Colorado resort, not east coast. To give an appreciation of scale, it's probably five times the size of the development at Stowes Spruce Peak.  Great restaurants, bars and apres ski, loads of special events, 200" of snow and a legit 1500 vertical off the back side.  500k skier visit a year destination. A large amount of the clientele I met were wealthy people from Atlanta or Charlotte metros who would do a Snowshoe week and Western week each season.  With those kinds of attributes it's surprising to me that Snowshoe doesn't make the top 20 every year.



The slopeside village is why I was thinking that they might draw from areas that are only a few hours closer to snowshoe compared to the southern vt resorts as snowshoe is debatably a bigger "resort". I've really good things about it. That being said I had also heard that it was getting a little run down a few years ago. If they're on the list again, maybe that means they've fixed it up a little bit?


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## steamboat1 (Sep 22, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> I'm glad to see Killington move up.  I think it clearly shows how the work of Mike Salomano is making a difference at a customer level.  They've stopped shrinking and they have reclaimed their reputation for the early/late season product. And while they haven't really started to grow again, they've stopped the bleeding and they are doing a lot of catch-up deferred maintenance on their infrastructure.


K is still shrinking. They have one less chairlift this year.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

Jully said:


> The slopeside village is why I was thinking that they might draw from areas that are only a few hours closer to snowshoe compared to the southern vt resorts as snowshoe is debatably a bigger "resort". I've really good things about it. That being said I had also heard that it was getting a little run down a few years ago. If they're on the list again, maybe that means they've fixed it up a little bit?



Wouldn't surprise me if it's run down. A lot of the village is 15-20 years old.  Also much of the units are in the rental pool and get beat on.

 Unlike New England, Snowshoe doesn't have a lot of weekend warriors.  It's a HUGE pain in the ass to get to even from DC, so you get a lot of people who come for the week. It's much busier midweek there than in New England. I handled the catering for the real estate launch of Allegheny Springs, which was their most prestigious lodging property at the time. Almost all the buyers were looking to use their units 1 week a winter and 1 week a summer and that was it.  So, with that kind of rental environment, things got beat on hard.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 22, 2016)

I live closer to Snowshoe than most on this board.  Its never even been a consideration for me to go there.  Sure the elevations is good, but the skiing is weak.  Plus as DHS said, its a MAJOR pain in the ass to get too.  Its 5 hours from me in Central PA.  I can be in Killington in 7.5 hours.


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## jimmywilson69 (Sep 22, 2016)

I've been to Holiday Valley and 7 Springs A lot. While they are decent places, they don't belong in the same category as other resorts in the Northeast.  That being said Ellicottville does have that "ski town" vibe which IMO places it higher than 7 Springs which has nothing of the such.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

My experience with 7 Springs is people primarily go there to party and skiing is secondary. There's nothing like that massive hotel anywhere in New England. Both times I went I was in my 20s and ended up partying with Random people we met in different hotel rooms until very late. Almost more a cruise ship type atmosphere than a ski vacation


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## cdskier (Sep 22, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> K is still shrinking. They have one less chairlift this year.



What did they get rid of now? I don't follow K's updates that closely beyond what they send in their e-mails (which don't usually mention things like lift elimination)...


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## steamboat1 (Sep 22, 2016)

cdskier said:


> What did they get rid of now? I don't follow K's updates that closely beyond what they send in their e-mails (which don't usually mention things like lift elimination)...


Relax it's no biggie. One of the old Snowshed doubles.


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## cdskier (Sep 22, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Relax it's no biggie. One of the old Snowshed doubles.



Hah, I'm quite relaxed.  You brought it up...I just asked for more info.


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## cdskier (Sep 22, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> I'm glad to see Killington move up.  I think it clearly shows how the work of Mike Salomano is making a difference at a customer level.  They've stopped shrinking and they have reclaimed their reputation for the early/late season product. And while they haven't really started to grow again, they've stopped the bleeding and they are doing a lot of catch-up deferred maintenance on their infrastructure.
> 
> I do think that if Sugarbush and Killington were both the same distance from the major population centers, that Sugarbush would beat Killington - hands down; but if you moved Snowshoe to New England, it wouldn't come close to this list.  But then again, if grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon.



I was happy to see Sugarbush move back into the top 10 where I think they rightly belong. I'm not necessarily entirely sure that Sugarbush would beat K hands down even if they were the same distance. It all depends on the criteria being considered. This is where it would be interesting to see how they compare in the various individual rankings (terrain, snow, etc). I would rank Sugarbush ahead of K in terms of terrain and snow, but K would probably have higher marks for apres and nightlife (even though I personally prefer the MRV type of vibe over the K access road scene).


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## benski (Sep 22, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Relax it's no biggie. One of the old Snowshed doubles.



Last year when i went to Killington the first thing one of the people knottiest was that the old snowshed doubles stupid. I get that they could be useful as a backup or on really crowded day but 2 doubles and a express quad seems a bit much.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 22, 2016)

benski said:


> Last year when i went to Killington the first thing one of the people knottiest was that the old snowshed doubles stupid. I get that they could be useful as a backup or on really crowded day but 2 doubles and a express quad seems a bit much.


They use at least one of them quite often when they have icing issues & can't get the quad going. One or both of Snowdon's fixed grip lifts are often the first lifts open on those mornings too when they can't run the detachables because of icing. Same thing with the Bear & Middle Brook  fixed grip quads. For some reason K has icing issues pretty frequently. Having the North Ridge & Canyon fixed grips also come in handy to get people up the mountain.


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## benski (Sep 22, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> They use at least one of them quite often when they have icing issues & can't get the quad going. One or both of Snowdon's fixed grip lifts are often the first lifts open on those mornings too when they can't run the detachables because of icing. Same thing with the Bear & Middle Brook  fixed grip quads. For some reason K has icing issues pretty frequently. Having the North Ridge & Canyon fixed grips also come in handy to get people up the mountain.



Do you really need to get the mountain open quickly when there is icing. It seems 95% of the time icing on lifts means icy trails.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 22, 2016)

benski said:


> Do you really need to get the mountain open quickly when there is icing. It seems 95% of the time icing on lifts means icy trails.


I haven't found that to be true. Besides grooming usually will take care of it.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 22, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I was simply implying that you, nor anyone else, is the authority on what what makes the best ski town.



Ummm..... okay?



cdskier said:


> I was happy to see Sugarbush move back into the top 10 where I think they rightly belong.



Agreed.   I'm not a huge Sugarbush bull, but I think it's a difficult case to make to not have Sugarbush somewhere in the latter part of the top-10.


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## Jully (Sep 22, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I haven't found that to be true. Besides grooming usually will take care of it.



Indeed. Usually days starting out with icing can turn into the best days. Uncrowded groomers in the morning because of the ice / lift issues and then it all softens around 11am but people still don't come out!


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## machski (Sep 22, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Relax it's no biggie. One of the old Snowshed doubles.



Hmm, funny to hear you say it is no biggie.  Granted, it really is no biggie but any loss of a redundant, little used lift at K stirs up the K-Zone crowd soething fierce.  Look at it this way, that is now 2 less lifts they have to worry about and spend $$ on to keep them certified, $$ that can be spent on the other highly utilized lifts or socked away to some day provide newer uogrades.  I realize the SRT was a nice option on busy days to move from Bear back to Skye/K, but it didn't serve any great terrain that was worthy of lapping.


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## machski (Sep 22, 2016)

List seems reasonable to me.  I am interested in next year's list to see how bad SR gets hit without Spruce chair for the season.  Though for those of us who don't mind a short bootpack up, having a lightly to little used trailset still with snowmaking could actually boost their ranking


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## steamboat1 (Sep 22, 2016)

machski said:


> I realize the SRT was a nice option on busy days to move from Bear back to Skye/K, *but it didn't serve any great terrain that was worthy of lapping.*


Say what?


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## joshua segal (Sep 23, 2016)

machski said:


> ...  I realize the SRT was a nice option on busy days to move from Bear back to Skye/K, but it didn't serve any great terrain that was worthy of lapping.


Besides not being crowded, I found the SRT (South Ridge Triple) to have some very nice lappable terrain including some very lovely bump runs and a few glades that were were pleasant (and not "killer").  It's presence also made it much easier to go from the Sky Peak side to Snowden.


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## machski (Sep 23, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Besides not being crowded, I found the SRT (South Ridge Triple) to have some very nice lappable terrain including some very lovely bump runs and a few glades that were were pleasant (and not "killer").  It's presence also made it much easier to go from the Sky Peak side to Snowden.



Nope, some fun to be on the lower third but far too short to be entertaining for two runs tops.  Had SRT just run to the midstation, that would have made for a nice little lapping lift.  The whole thing on the flat upper?  Not so much.  Given the reality of limited $$ for everything at resorts, K did the smart thing in my opinion.  

And just so I don't seem overly biased, SR has lost lifts permanently too.  The fall line double is gone for good out of South Ridge and it has burnt the resort on occasion when Chondi and South Ridge Express have both gone down with no other lift option out.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 23, 2016)

machski said:


> Nope, some fun to be on the lower third but far too short to be entertaining for two runs tops.  Had SRT just run to the midstation, that would have made for a nice little lapping lift.  The whole thing on the flat upper?  Not so much.  Given the reality of limited $$ for everything at resorts, K did the smart thing in my opinion.


I think you forgot about Jug which starts near the top of the old lift. The other trails which start lower are also definitely worth lapping. The SRT made getting from Bear back to K-1 so much easier because you could traverse over from the top. Now the only way to get to K-1 is to let them rip from the base of Superstar across the front of the base lodge which creates a dangerous situation being there's two way traffic. Only other option is to ski lower Ovation which is often closed or very icy. Even if they put in a new South Ridge lift I probably wouldn't see the benefit though because the old lift ran mostly on weekends only & I'm a weekday skier.


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## Smellytele (Sep 23, 2016)

machski said:


> Nope, some fun to be on the lower third but far too short to be entertaining for two runs tops.  Had SRT just run to the midstation, that would have made for a nice little lapping lift.  The whole thing on the flat upper?  Not so much.  Given the reality of limited $$ for everything at resorts, K did the smart thing in my opinion.
> 
> And just so I don't seem overly biased, SR has lost lifts permanently too.  The fall line double is gone for good out of South Ridge and it has burnt the resort on occasion when Chondi and South Ridge Express have both gone down with no other lift option out.



There has never been a reason until maybe now (or late Season in the past) to go to South Ridge at SR.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 23, 2016)

and whiteface has such unique terrain. that massive vertical drop, the slides when they are able to open them, that view from the peak. my only issue with whiteface is a lack of good tree skiing. the one off the Wilmington trail is deceiving. it's long but the fall line is a short hit to the creek bed and then you're basically gliding out at very low angle


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## Tin (Sep 23, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> and whiteface has such unique terrain. that massive vertical drop, the slides when they are able to open them, that view from the peak. my only issue with whiteface is a lack of good tree skiing. the one off the Wilmington trail is deceiving. it's long but the fall line is a short hit to the creek bed and then you're basically gliding out at very low angle



Any idea about what you can get off lifts like the Summit Quad or the Little Whiteface Double? The map is deceiving but if the gondi gives you 2400', each one should put each one around 1600-1800'. That is really impressive for essential "pod" skiing. They need a better map imo.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 23, 2016)

Tin said:


> Any idea about what you can get off lifts like the Summit Quad or the Little Whiteface Double? The map is deceiving but if the gondi gives you 2400', each one should put each one around 1600-1800'. That is really impressive for essential "pod" skiing. They need a better map imo.



When you ski Whiteface from the summit, by the time you get to the bottom, you know it's the highest lift served elevation in the east.  It's a really long run.

Keep in mind, this picture is Litte White Face (i.e. not the summit, which is significantly higher)






And yes, you're right, their trailmap stinks.


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 23, 2016)

Whiteface has been on my list now for years and still haven't done it.  Hopefully this year w a combo of Gore to make a northern NY trip.  

Question:  I've heard the runout from the middle of WF down to the base is pretty boring.  How much vertical is just getting back to the base lift(s)?


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 23, 2016)

sugarbushskier said:


> Whiteface has been on my list now for years and still haven't done it.  Hopefully this year w a combo of Gore to make a northern NY trip.
> 
> Question: * I've heard the runout from the middle of WF down to the base is pretty boring.*  How much vertical is just getting back to the base lift(s)?



Saying "the middle" is harsh, but the bottom is in fact pretty boring, that's true.

You will not be disappointed in a Gore/Whiteface trip.  Leave early, ski Gore, then stay a few nights in Lake Placid.  Only advice I'd give, is to make it a flexible weekend trip planned "the week of", rather than a trip planned well in advance.  You really want to hit Whiteface with good conditions, and you really dont want to hit Whiteface with poor conditions.  And IMO, Gore has some of the best tree skiing in the entire east, and what's even better about it, is that very few people know that Gore has some of the best tree skiing in the entire east.


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 23, 2016)

Thanks for the intel BG. That's what I've heard and another reason why I need to get there this year.  

Have skied most areas in NE, but for some reason, WF and Gore have never worked out.  Didn't mean to go negative on the runout, but I've skied areas where the runouts are way to long for my liking, (Sundance anyone), so always heard WF is great but vert is a bit overstated due to the "road" down to the base.

Hopefully this year!!


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## Not Sure (Sep 23, 2016)

BG ....Whats up with "Notice - Lift may run in reverse" Sign?
:-o


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## JimG. (Sep 23, 2016)

sugarbushskier said:


> Whiteface has been on my list now for years and still haven't done it.  Hopefully this year w a combo of Gore to make a northern NY trip.
> 
> Question:  I've heard the runout from the middle of WF down to the base is pretty boring.  How much vertical is just getting back to the base lift(s)?



If there is decent (150") snow Gore will surprise you. Don't be afraid to venture out and explore.


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## cdskier (Sep 23, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> BG ....Whats up with "Notice - Lift may run in reverse" Sign?
> :-o



I've seen that on a number of lifts at different areas... I think the Slide Brook Express at Sugarbush has that sign.


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## xlr8r (Sep 23, 2016)

cdskier said:


> I've seen that on a number of lifts at different areas... I think the Slide Brook Express at Sugarbush has that sign.



It is typically for detachables as those do run in reverse to move chairs to parking rails and vice versa


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## jimk (Sep 24, 2016)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I live closer to Snowshoe than most on this board.  Its never even been a consideration for me to go there.  Sure the elevations is good, but the skiing is weak.  Plus as DHS said, its a MAJOR pain in the ass to get too.  Its 5 hours from me in Central PA.  I can be in Killington in 7.5 hours.


.

LOL.  Yeah, it looks like Snowshoe took Holiday Valley's place this year on the list.  I've lived in DC area nearly all my life, skied in the mid-A area for the last 50 years.  Been to Snowshoe twice



KustyTheKlown said:


> and whiteface has such unique terrain. that massive vertical drop, the slides when they are able to open them, that view from the peak. my only issue with whiteface is a lack of good tree skiing. the one off the Wilmington trail is deceiving. it's long but the fall line is a short hit to the creek bed and then you're basically gliding out at very low angle



Don't know Whiteface real well, but good trees off Little Whiteface:
Cloudsplitter Glades






10th Mtn Div Glades


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## deadheadskier (Sep 24, 2016)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought I've read Whiteface has some lift lines that are roped off, but would be good skiing.  Something to do with trail mileage being capped?  I would find that Incredibly annoying.


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## joshua segal (Sep 24, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> BG ....Whats up with "Notice - Lift may run in reverse" Sign?
> :-o


A number of cases have occurred when the brake on a chair lift has failed and as the chairs start moving backwards, they accelerate.  Going around the bull wheel backwards is quite dangerous and many will take a chance and jump before it gets going too fast.  The sign is essentially a warning that if the lift goes backwards, "Don't Jump".


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 25, 2016)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> BG ....Whats up with "Notice - Lift may run in reverse" Sign?
> :-o



When I see crap like that, I always just assume it's lawyer placation.


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## chuckstah (Sep 25, 2016)

I was on the North Peak quad at Loon a few years ago that has that sign, and it started going backwards. Fast. Scared the shit out of me.  I was told it was routine?  Boyne.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 30, 2016)

Not Eastern, but folks in Park City are with PCMR's ranking:

http://www.parkrecord.com/news/park...uential-magazine-rankings/?platform=hootsuite


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## AMG27 (Oct 9, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Agree that both Le Massif and Mt. St. Anne are superior to most of the resorts in this list, but they are beyond the travel range of most eastern skiers.
> 
> First list of this kind I've seen without Holiday Valley from WNY   The top 10 are all of 2K vertical.



Second time Le Massif has been brought up around me. Any tips on visiting? I keep hearing how great it is, but feel like a total outsider when it comes to Canadian Mountains. 


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## steamboat1 (Oct 9, 2016)

AMG27 said:


> Second time Le Massif has been brought up around me. Any tips on visiting? I keep hearing how great it is, but feel like a total outsider when it comes to Canadian Mountains.


There's plenty of things to do & places to stay between staying in Quebec City or at Mont Sainte Anne. Le Massif is quieter but I'm sure there is some local lodging available, never looked into it myself. They're all relatively close to eachother so getting from one to another is not that big a deal. Language is not a barrier either as most people speak both English & French. If you're going to spend any amount of time up there I'd look into skiing a day at Stoneham & Le Rolais too. They're smaller areas north of QC (SA & LM are east) & offer good skiing also. I've never been to Masif de Sud which is south of QC so can't give an opinion. I wouldn't worry about feeling like an outsider, you'll feel right at home.


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## ceo (Oct 9, 2016)

My understanding is that Doppelmayr detachables have that sign because the grip is in a locked-open position going around the terminal, so the grip force check happens when the chair has clamped onto the haul rope and is on its way out. If the grip isn't gripping hard enough, they have to reverse the lift to bring it back into the terminal. Poma detachables have a single-position grip, so they can check it when it's off the cable.


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## AMG27 (Oct 10, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> There's plenty of things to do & places to stay between staying in Quebec City or at Mont Sainte Anne. Le Massif is quieter but I'm sure there is some local lodging available, never looked into it myself. They're all relatively close to eachother so getting from one to another is not that big a deal. Language is not a barrier either as most people speak both English & French. If you're going to spend any amount of time up there I'd look into skiing a day at Stoneham & Le Rolais too. They're smaller areas north of QC (SA & LM are east) & offer good skiing also. I've never been to Masif de Sud which is south of QC so can't give an opinion. I wouldn't worry about feeling like an outsider, you'll feel right at home.



Thanks for the info! I'll look more detailed into it once it's finally winter. 


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## dlague (Oct 10, 2016)

AMG27 said:


> Thanks for the info! I'll look more detailed into it once it's finally winter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you make it to the Boston Ski and Snowboard Show, the resorts up and around Quebec there will be there and have all the info you need!


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