# Scariest ski trails in the northeast



## Northeastskier293 (Dec 7, 2009)

I was wandering what people think the scariest ski trails in the Northeast are. I haven't skied many double blacks, but I heard White Heat is pretty scary. Anyway, what are YOUR scariest trails in the Northeast?


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## Marc (Dec 7, 2009)

Great Northern, early season.


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## SteveInCT (Dec 7, 2009)

Northeastskier293 said:


> I heard White Heat is pretty scary. Anyway, what are YOUR scariest trails in the Northeast?





Marc said:


> Great Northern, early season.



Which mountains are these on? I don't have trail names committed to memory (yet) and this thread is going to drive me nuts trying to find out where these trails are!! ;-)


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## SKIQUATTRO (Dec 7, 2009)

Upper Liftline-Smuggs
Black Hole-Smuggs
MRG-places that may or may not be on the map


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## St. Bear (Dec 7, 2009)

Usually, the scariest trails are the ones directly underneath the lifts because they're designed to take the most direct route up the mountain.

Off the top of my head, using my limited mountain experience:

DJ's Tramline - Cannon (still can't believe this is a marked trail)
Liftline - Sugarbush (Castlerock)
Top Cat - Wildcat


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## billski (Dec 7, 2009)

Scariest Trail: Any trail at Nashoba (Mass.)

It's the kids, not the slope!


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## redalienx11 (Dec 7, 2009)

the frist time i skied the headwall/chutes at Jay Peak was pretty scary. for me, relatively easy trails can be deemed scary depending on conditions and traffic, and vice versa.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Dec 7, 2009)

Northeastskier293 said:


> I was wandering what people think the scariest ski trails in the Northeast are. I haven't skied many double blacks, but I heard White Heat is pretty scary. Anyway, what are YOUR scariest trails in the Northeast?



Well minus the fact that I have never been to Stowe, WF, and MRG I would say there is nothing truley scary that is an actual named trail....there are plenty that give you the feeling of a rush and that you were challenged.  Oh and I have never been down Tram Line at Cannon, but I imagine that has to be really tough, especially with Cannons generally low snowfall amounts for such a steep trail.  I will also toss Ovation at Killington in there when it's open and windy.......boiler plate and steep.

Killington has some scary trails, but that has less to do with terrain and more to do with knuckle heads on a crowded day who stand around at major intersections, crosscuts and don't look uphill/downhill, etc.  Of course that is more my fault for actually thinking it's a good idea to go on a weekend with blue birds sky's, soft snow and fresh powder.......I mean why would I want to go on a nice weekend from time to time.  I know my boss appeciates that lack of call ins.


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## snowmonster (Dec 7, 2009)

SteveInCT said:


> Which mountains are these on? I don't have trail names committed to memory (yet) and this thread is going to drive me nuts trying to find out where these trails are!! ;-)



White Heat = Sunday River 
Great Northern = Killington

White Heat is steep, bumped up on one side and wide. When it's bullet proof, it can be nasty. There are a series of three "ledges" by that I mean, there's a steep part followed by a flattish portion. Once you're over that, it's pretty tame. On White Cap, I'd say Shockwave is harder.

The early season clusterf--- on Great Northern is a wonder of the ski world.


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## powhunter (Dec 7, 2009)

Julio at Killington.....Ripcord at snow when its sheer ice......Headwall at Tux

steveo


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## skiadikt (Dec 7, 2009)

Marc said:


> Great Northern, early season.



got that right ... also top of starr or goat at stowe. paradise at mrg. castlerock liftline. at k you're talking things like fiddle cliff area, cliff area in dipper woods. lower ovation is one of the longer consistently steep runs you'll find in the east.


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## TheBEast (Dec 7, 2009)

Lower Ovation at K on Tele-Skis with dust on breakable crust conditions......I wouldn't generally say that many trails "scare" me, but that day had increased the pucker factor a bit.....


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## jerryg (Dec 7, 2009)

I personally don't find any terrain inbounds in the eastto be scary at all, certainly not White Heat. I'm not trying to infer that I'm some super-duper skier either, I just don't think that it too much in the east that would make me think twice.

Now if you add the ice factor, sure, the terrain becomes different, but still very few scary trails, areas.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 7, 2009)

Waterfall at Stowe.  I've only ever conjured up the balls to go off the ladies tee and that was a long time ago.  Snow would have to be deep and soft for me to do it again and I doubt I'd ever launch from the top.


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## Smellytele (Dec 7, 2009)

It all comes down to conditions. Anything with ice is different than when powdery.


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## Mapnut (Dec 7, 2009)

powhunter said:


> Ripcord at snow when its sheer ice......
> steveo


  Illustration here:  http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=galimg26240  I mean _really_ sheer, in fact closed.  but somebody made tracks down that little strip of snow on the right. :-o


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## Greg (Dec 7, 2009)

Mapnut said:


> Illustration here:  http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=galimg26240  I mean _really_ sheer, in fact closed.  but somebody made tracks down that little strip of snow on the right. :-o



Oof. You gotta click on the pic to get the full effect. That looks NASTY!


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## skiadikt (Dec 7, 2009)

Greg said:


> Oof. You gotta click on the pic to get the full effect. That looks NASTY!



now that IS scary. to my point in the kmart thread below about double blacks. different standards for the east & west ...


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## WJenness (Dec 7, 2009)

wow... that's not a ski trail.. it's an inclined hockey rink!

-w


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## snowmonster (Dec 7, 2009)

^ Looks pretty much like any ski area in the northeast after a rain-freeze cycle.


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## Edd (Dec 7, 2009)

snowmonster said:


> On White Cap, I'd say Shockwave is harder.



I took someone down that last year, telling him beforehand it was going to be a bit hairy.  Turns out they had GROOMED it that day.  I thought that trail was NEVER groomed.


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## WJenness (Dec 7, 2009)

Edd said:


> I took someone down that last year, telling him beforehand it was going to be a bit hairy.  Turns out they had GROOMED it that day.  I thought that trail was NEVER groomed.



Yeah, during that uber long dry spell towards the end of last winter they groomed shockwave and agony at one point (and made a habit out of grooming top gun as well)...

I think it was just due to the extended dry spell with no hope for refresher snow...

Hopefully we don't get into a pattern like that again this year.

-w


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## PomfretPlunge (Dec 7, 2009)

The Knob at Sonnenberg <oops, closed 20 years ago>


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## Highway Star (Dec 7, 2009)

Caution: Epic thread.........

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22014



> *Sunday 3/23/08 - Death slides on Lower Ovation!!!*
> 
> Anybody enjoy the grooming on lower-O this weekend?
> 
> ...


 


			
				Highway Star said:
			
		

> madvillain said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jaja111 (Dec 7, 2009)

Marc said:


> Great Northern, early season.



Exactly what I thought when I read the title in the new posts. Just all year round from my experience though.


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## Highway Star (Dec 7, 2009)

Marc said:


> Great Northern, early season.


 
That's lower bunny buster you're thinking of, but thanks for playing.


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## riverc0il (Dec 7, 2009)

Northeastskier293 said:


> I was wandering what people think the scariest ski trails in the Northeast are. I haven't skied many double blacks, but I heard White Heat is pretty scary. Anyway, what are YOUR scariest trails in the Northeast?


You would have to define what you consider scary. As some people have alluded to, sometimes that scariest trail is actually a green circle early season with wall to wall people. Which is definitely scary to me, way more scary than a black or double black at any other mountain in normal conditions.

And again conditions, as mentioned, also has a lot to do with how scary a trail is as any trail can ski radically (heh) different depending if it is powder, packed power, dust on crust, crust, hard pack, frozen granular, or ice.

Trails don't scare me but conditions do. But I don't think I have ever been on an open on map trail at a ski area and been scared. I have been off map on nearly glare ice and having a very health dose of "respect the terrain" type fear. But that was entirely conditions dependent as that same area was epic two weeks prior.


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## billski (Dec 7, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> Trails don't scare me but conditions do.



Agree++ with Steve.  There is a time and place for every trail.  The "good" trails will vary day to day.  Knowing what the right trails are for the conditions at hand is an important skill to have.  It makes all the difference between a day from hell or a day in paradise.

A double black may be wicked bad the day after a thaw cycle, but the same trail might be heaven after a dump.


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## automagp68 (Dec 7, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> That's lower bunny buster you're thinking of, but thanks for playing.



What was up wtih Fis this weekend? Thats an odd little bumpy piece hu?" 

its like 50 feet long with some oddly large bumps def not scary though.


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## redalienx11 (Dec 7, 2009)

scaring myself on hard east coast terrain when i got myself in over my head as a kid got me to where i am today.


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## RootDKJ (Dec 7, 2009)

Lazy Mile, Blue Mountain 1:47 PM, any Saturday.


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## Terry (Dec 7, 2009)

Lower Sunday Punch this past sunday. I have never seen so many people on 1 trail in my life. It was survival skiing at its best.


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## Rambo (Dec 7, 2009)

Ovation at Killington can be deadly if it is extremly ICY!! I saw 2 guys fall and it was so steep and icy that there was no way for them to stop and they slid on their rears 60mph all the way to the bottom. I proceeded to carefully ski over to the left side, take my skis off and walk up on the edge in the woods to get back to the top and find a safer way down.


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## tarponhead (Dec 7, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> Caution: Epic thread.........
> 
> "I spotted a woman about 1/3rd down the pitch, out on the ungroomed ice....she had taken her skis off and was perched on a tiny spot of soft snow. I stopped and asked if I could help - she said she had been standing there for 15 minutes....had accidently skied over there when she missed her turn."
> 
> That's pretty stand-up of you HS, nice.


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## octopus (Dec 7, 2009)

shockwave icy is a bitch, at least on a snowboard. i spent a week last feb at sunday river,white heat was steep and had some icy patches, but not that bad(i found it interesting that the steepest part was in the shade and a ice sheet). i was actually surprised how easy it was.
       from the lift, shockwave looks ok, less steep, and longer than white heat.  wrong, complete struggle to get back to white heat, 1 skier below struggling also. i fell a bunch of times, it just seemed like rocks,moguls, ice and light snow over ice. i think i was more annoyed than scared.


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## Newpylong (Dec 7, 2009)

Mapnut said:


> Illustration here:  http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=galimg26240  I mean _really_ sheer, in fact closed.  but somebody made tracks down that little strip of snow on the right. :-o



That trail is straight down... can't imagine someone hitting that up under those conditions...


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## Newpylong (Dec 7, 2009)

octopus said:


> shockwave icy is a bitch, at least on a snowboard. i spent a week last feb at sunday river,white heat was steep and had some icy patches, but not that bad(i found it interesting that the steepest part was in the shade and a ice sheet). i was actually surprised how easy it was.
> from the lift, shockwave looks ok, less steep, and longer than white heat.  wrong, complete struggle to get back to white heat, 1 skier below struggling also. i fell a bunch of times, it just seemed like rocks,moguls, ice and light snow over ice. i think i was more annoyed than scared.



Shockwave is deceptively steeper than it looks, and when conditions are less than ideal it's a long ride down...


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## millerm277 (Dec 7, 2009)

Lower Ovation is plausible, for the typical conditions on it, when the snow's nice, it's just wide and very steep (and quite enjoyable), but that's about 5% of the time it's open. It tends to be a vertical moonscape....a barren bumpy sheet of ice from the windscouring it gets.


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## maineskier69 (Dec 8, 2009)

On map...
Paradise MRG
Rumble Sugarbush


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## tjf67 (Dec 8, 2009)

Face chutes Jay
Slides whiteface


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## SkiDork (Dec 8, 2009)

1 thing about lower O, if you Do slide you have a nice easy runout at the bottom.


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## Greg (Dec 8, 2009)

SkiDork said:


> 1 thing about lower O, if you Do slide you have a nice easy runout at the bottom.



Unlike Claire's at Hunter. That trail is a slide magnet. And you have a good chance of sliding into a fence at the top, or the woods at the bottom...


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

There are no scary trails...  Only scared people..

Unless these trails are haunted by pirate ghosts...  then .... scary..


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

Greg said:


> Unlike Claire's at Hunter. That trail is a slide magnet. And you have a good chance of sliding into a fence at the top, or the woods at the bottom...



it's because it's steep and people do not even have the concept of self arrest..


44 and lower K are worse...


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## billski (Dec 8, 2009)

dmc said:


> There are no scary trails...  Only scared people..
> 
> Unless these trails are haunted by pirate ghosts...  then .... scary..





There will never be a consensus on this topic, which is the way it should be.  Ask a group of rank beginners to define scary, you'll get an even different answer.


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## ta&idaho (Dec 8, 2009)

Mapnut said:


> Illustration here:  http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=galimg26240  I mean _really_ sheer, in fact closed.  but somebody made tracks down that little strip of snow on the right. :-o



Ripcord often looks like that.  Ick.

I think we've established that conditions--not terrain--account for the scariest situations in the East.  Craptastic conditions sometimes develop out West, but you're usually not as tempted to try it.  At Hunter in particular, boredom mixed with a tinge of masochism always seem to convince me to try out runs even when they look miserable (Lower K and Claire's in particular).  Ouch.


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## SkiDork (Dec 8, 2009)

dmc said:


> There are no scary trails...  Only scared people..
> 
> Unless these trails are haunted by pirate ghosts...  then .... scary..



arrrgg


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## Highway Star (Dec 8, 2009)

Newpylong said:


> That trail is straight down... can't imagine someone hitting that up under those conditions...


 
I've poached ripcord when it was sheet ice and there was less snow on it than that.  Not sure it was quite the same level of glaze shinyness as in that pic, but it was certainly ungroomed and hard as a rock....you fall you slide to the bottom type deal.


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## Puck it (Dec 8, 2009)

I have only had  second thoughts about trails on the first day at Jackson Hole.


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## billski (Dec 8, 2009)

SkiDork said:


> arrrgg



Man, they let anyone into that house!
:beer:


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

billski said:


> There will never be a consensus on this topic, which is the way it should be.  Ask a group of rank beginners to define scary, you'll get an even different answer.



Exactly...

So last time I was in Jackson Hole I was riding with some locals - all awesome freerider/skiers...  They wanted to hit the Pucker Face on my first day..  
I asked them how long it took before they hit that shti after first moving out..  Responses varied..  But nobody said the first day...


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

Also - what does scary mean?  Death? Maiming? Embarrassment?


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## tjf67 (Dec 8, 2009)

dmc said:


> Also - what does scary mean?  Death? Maiming? Embarrassment?



Maiming possible death.  That equals scary.   Getting embarrassed is a good character builder and does not play into my equasion.

That said.   


The chutes at Jay and the slides at whiteface are  two areas in the east that make me feel that way.  There are some places I have been in Stowe and Sugarbush that have given me the pit in my belly but I have no idea where I was.  I am sure there are plenty of places I have not been that would do the same.


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Maiming possible death.  That equals scary.   Getting embarrassed is a good character builder and does not play into my equasion.



You sure?  I've seen people too embarrassed to start before...  Think beginner.... not your current bad ass self...


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## 4aprice (Dec 8, 2009)

billski said:


> Scariest Trail: Any trail at Nashoba (Mass.)
> 
> It's the kids, not the slope!



Good point, except in my case it would be any trail at Mountain Creek.  I've been hit by other skiers there, more than once.  Won't ski there anymore.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## St. Bear (Dec 8, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Maiming possible death.  That equals scary.   Getting embarrassed is a good character builder and does not play into my equasion.
> 
> That said.
> 
> ...



At least for me, embarassing isn't scary.  If that were the case, I would never leave a groomed trail (which I do quite often).

Scary is the thought in the back of your mind that you may have to be carried down the slopes, and have someone else drive your car home for you.  For me, that mostly comes into play when there are mandatory airs.


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## Greg (Dec 8, 2009)

dmc said:


> not your current bad ass self...



:lol: Something tells me TJ has never thought of himself as anything less than a bad ass....


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## Marc (Dec 8, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> That's lower bunny buster you're thinking of, but thanks for playing.



Incorrect.


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## hammer (Dec 8, 2009)

For me, there's a certain pucker factor that comes in at the first run of the day...

Most of the time when I look at/down the steep stuff I usually think crazy, not scary...but that's usually because I bail on those trails anyway.


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

Greg said:


> :lol: Something tells me TJ has never thought of himself as anything less than a bad ass....



i see that


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## tjf67 (Dec 8, 2009)

Greg said:


> :lol: Something tells me TJ has never thought of himself as anything less than a bad ass....





I never think of myself as a bad ass.  I guess its the vibes I throw off.  

Which gives me a good topic.  See you in Misc.


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## dmc (Dec 8, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> I never think of myself as a bad ass.  I guess its the vibes I throw off.
> 
> Which gives me a good topic.  See you in Misc.



Thats not exact vibe i get off you now....   But the word ass is in what I think...


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## zinger3000 (Dec 8, 2009)

*Rumor at Gore*

I've heard that "Rumor" at Gore is really tough.  It's a double-black diamond, so way beyond my ability level, but I have a friend who considers himself an expert skier, and only tried it once - never again.  He said that for about the first third of the way down the trail, his skis were perpendicular to the slope as gravity pulled him down the trail.  He was able to straighten himself out eventually to actually ski the rest of the way down the trail.

The signage at the top of the trail reads: "Rumor - Experts Only.  Are you an expert?"


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## Mapnut (Dec 8, 2009)

I guess a good definition of "scary" is any trail that you would consider, even for a moment, not going down.  If that's an option.


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## danpop (Dec 8, 2009)

The new double black diamond trail at Loon, Ripsaw... not very steep (except the head wall for about 200 feet or so) but very icy.

We skied that for two days last winter... first day, it was fine, but second day it was all ice... nearly everyone will fall/slide down the super icy headwall. The trail should have been definitely closed that day.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 8, 2009)

I question those who say they do not get 'scared' anywhere in the East.  My nomination of Waterfall is about the primary feature of the trail.  Dropping from the top of the cliff is a solid 20-25 feet.  I would venture that that would scare all but the top 1% of skiers.

A rail in a terrain park will scare me and so do giant table tops these days.....both I'll ski around.  

I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that certain trails/features on the mountain scare you.


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## redalienx11 (Dec 8, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> I question those who say they do not get 'scared' anywhere in the East.



i was thinkin that too. maybe theyre using a different definition of scary as talked about before...or maybe they never get in over their head and play it extremely conservative....who knows.

while there are different objective hazards in the east compared to the west, the objective hazards remain and should be respected, although not necessarily feared. Even if all the subjective hazards were eliminated (which is impossible) there are some things that will remain out of our control. no mater how styled and dialed my decision making skills are, there is still a little feeling of nervousness when skiing some of the more challenging terrain in the east.


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## billski (Dec 8, 2009)

Mapnut said:


> I guess a good definition of "scary" is any trail that you would consider, even for a moment, not going down.  If that's an option.



If it's a patrolled trail and it's open, I don't worry too much - that doesn't make it easy by any stretch; plenty of icy trails get opened.  As in most sports I'm involved with, I have great respect and take great care, but I do take calculated chances.  In most cases I can become fearful if I hang around on top staring down, worrying about it.  I just get up and go - it's been a great lesson in overcoming fear, in any sport.  Often the first few turns I might have a couple of self=doubts (Oh bleep, what did I get myself into), but it always has worked out. Again, its calculated, not reckless.

I just figure I'll be walking away even if I get injured.  If I have any concern for my life, that is, such that I'm reviewing my will or a rescue plan, then I might not go.   Then again, I'm probably not going to put myself into that position to begin with.  

I know most of the areas well enough to know when something's not good enough - for example a lift line trail with more exposed rock than snow.


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## Riverskier (Dec 8, 2009)

I can't say I have found any of the trails I have skied to be scary. However, I did ski Spruce Cliffs at Sunday River once while it was briefly on the map. While I didn't find it scary, it was certainly a challenge trying to get down it. Completely exposed ice covered ledge, so side slipping wasn't even an option. Definitely not fun and I can see why it is no longer on the map. I am sure it is great for the first 5 or so skiers who ski it after a storm, but after that all that is left is rock.


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## Edd (Dec 8, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> I did ski Spruce Cliffs at Sunday River once while it was briefly on the map.



If those are the cliffs you can see while on Lazy River than that's something I wouldn't choose to ski.  Looks like too little room for error.


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## KevinF (Dec 8, 2009)

zinger3000 said:


> IThe signage at the top of the trail reads: "Rumor - Experts Only.  Are you an expert?"





Mapnut said:


> I guess a good definition of "scary" is any trail that you would consider, even for a moment, not going down.  If that's an option.



At the top of the tram at Big Sky, Montana you have to push through a little gate to actually get outside and put your skis on, etc.  And there is a sign on that gate saying "if you have to think about it, don't even think about it".

It was way too rocky to ski down anything when I was there, so I just went up for the view.  (Awful snow year when I was there).  I guess most of the stuff up there is easily pushing 40 degrees -- falling would mean a really long slide.


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## Riverskier (Dec 9, 2009)

Edd said:


> If those are the cliffs you can see while on Lazy River than that's something I wouldn't choose to ski.  Looks like too little room for error.



Those are the cliffs you see from Lazy River. They are actually pretty easily skiable by your average expert right after a storm. The problem is, after roughly 5 or 10 skiers they get scraped off and aren't skiable by anyone. Best left off the map.


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## 4aprice (Dec 9, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> I can't say I have found any of the trails I have skied to be scary. However, I did ski Spruce Cliffs at Sunday River once while it was briefly on the map. While I didn't find it scary, it was certainly a challenge trying to get down it. Completely exposed ice covered ledge, so side slipping wasn't even an option. Definitely not fun and I can see why it is no longer on the map. I am sure it is great for the first 5 or so skiers who ski it after a storm, but after that all that is left is rock.



I spent 4 wonderful March days at Sunday River with my former college roomate who has a condo there back in I think 2004 (what ever year it was it was a good snow year).  Spruce Cliffs was the only trail closed and therefore the only trail we didn't ski.  Interesting that its no longer on the map.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## bigbog (Dec 9, 2009)

Lots of trails in early season cuz of their runouts...usually all merging somewhere.  Not much you can do about it as usually there is _another_ trail closeby that can have decent cover at roughly the same time...

$.01


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## RENO (Dec 9, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Lazy Mile, Blue Mountain 1:47 PM, any Saturday.



Lazy Mile, President's day! :blink:  :-o


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## jerryg (Dec 9, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> Those are the cliffs you see from Lazy River. They are actually pretty easily skiable by your average expert right after a storm. The problem is, after roughly 5 or 10 skiers they get scraped off and aren't skiable by anyone. Best left off the map.



Actually, the "cliff" part of Spruce Cliffs, the trail, isn't really visible as it's blocked by pretty tall trees in the flat section at the bottom. The cliffs that are seen are to the left (looking from Barker) and were never part of the trail. The problem with the cliff part wasn't so much that the cliff got exposed, it wouldn't be a cliff it it didn't, IMO, but the fact that right below the cliff was totally flat and there were lots of trees. You couldn't just launch it cause the landing was/is super-sketchy.


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## gimme789 (Dec 9, 2009)

Belt Parkway (Hunter) on a crowded weekend.   

I'm not sure which of the Stowe front four it is (Goat?, Starr?) , but I remember they had a fence with an opening at the top of the trail so skiiers would not launch themselves into orbit ... it was so freakin steep.


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## SIKSKIER (Dec 10, 2009)

Well,I didn't see this thread qualified with lift-served so I'll say the top of Airplane on Mt Washington.Pucker-up


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## dns1764 (Dec 17, 2009)

the cliff at the top of the west mountain at bretton woods is up there.


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## bobbutts (Dec 17, 2009)

Since others have mentioned the overall toughest runs like tucks, jay face chutes, tramline, etc and the most crowded runs (grand junction at Loon is another), I'll use different criteria.  Ice on steep groomed runs where self-arrest may be tough and a slide can end up in the woods.. White Nitro at Sugarloaf, Ripsaw at Loon.. those are the only ones that pop into my head now but pretty sure there are several other similar runs around NE.


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## Skimaine (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob has a good point.  You fall on White Nitro below the cross cut on an icy day and you are in deep poo.  No stopping until you hit the trees (hard).


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## billski (Dec 18, 2009)

Skimaine said:


> Bob has a good point.  You fall on White Nitro below the cross cut on an icy day and you are in deep poo.  No stopping until you hit the trees (hard).



Ever consider a drag chute???


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## rtibbs4 (Dec 19, 2009)

> Since others have mentioned the overall toughest runs like tucks, jay face chutes, tramline, etc and the most crowded runs (grand junction at Loon is another), I'll use different criteria. Ice on steep groomed runs where self-arrest may be tough and a slide can end up in the woods.. White Nitro at Sugarloaf, Ripsaw at Loon.. those are the only ones that pop into my head now but pretty sure there are several other similar runs around NE.



Has anyone witnessed an icey White Heat (Sunday River) from the lift? People falling and sliding out of control. Lose an edge and you turn into a human bob sled!


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## dns1764 (Dec 19, 2009)

top of bode's run is like that, esspecially later in the day


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## TylerDurden (Dec 25, 2009)

Scariest trails in the NE, seriously?  I haven't found anything that comes close to the West, Alta and Snowbird.  Even the most viable double blacks in the NE are at most a double blue out west.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 25, 2009)

Skimaine said:


> Bob has a good point.  You fall on White Nitro below the cross cut on an icy day and you are in deep poo.  No stopping until you hit the trees (hard).



A ski patrol lost his life up there 10+ years ago. Slid into snowmaking equipment and cut his femoral artery.


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## JD (Dec 26, 2009)

TylerDurden said:


> Scariest trails in the NE, seriously?  I haven't found anything that comes close to the West, Alta and Snowbird.  Even the most viable double blacks in the NE are at most a double blue out west.



I think a run like Upper Goat, Starr in bad snow conditions would test any skier.


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## kingslug (Dec 26, 2009)

I've had some "fun" experiences at WF......lost a ski on a sheer sheet of ice ....had to slide down..carefully lest I sail into the woods. Tough mountain.


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## Mapnut (Dec 27, 2009)

TylerDurden said:


> Scariest trails in the NE, seriously?  I haven't found anything that comes close to the West, Alta and Snowbird.  Even the most viable double blacks in the NE are at most a double blue out west.


 The thing is, the scariest slopes in the east are the steepest slopes that can get adequate snow cover.  Chutes out west are skiable because they get 10 feet of snow in them and no ice.  There are cliffs and 60-degree pitches in the East too, but they're never skiable.  Plenty of steepness, not enough snow.  Apparently there are places on Mt. Mansfield and elsewhere that super-experts will hike in and ski at considerable risk when there's enough snow.  But ski resorts don't maintain trails like that because they'd be open too seldom.  As it is, some major eastern resorts have a few expert trails that only get enough cover to be open a few weeks a year.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2009)

TylerDurden said:


> Scariest trails in the NE, seriously?  I haven't found anything that comes close to the West, Alta and Snowbird.  Even the most viable double blacks in the NE are at most a double blue out west.



No arguing that the east has tougher terrain than the west; you are right, it's not.

However, there are plenty of double blacks in the east that would get a similar rating out west.  A trail like Madonna lift line at Smuggs would get a double black rating anywhere out west.  Same goes for Waterfall at Stowe.  Sorry a 15 to 25 foot mandatory air isn't a double blue.


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## jerryg (Dec 27, 2009)

dns1764 said:


> top of bode's run is like that, esspecially later in the day



I can't even handle this. I just don't see anything scary about Bode's run. It's a blue at best.


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## JD (Dec 28, 2009)

jerryg said:


> I can't even handle this. I just don't see anything scary about Bode's run. It's a blue at best.



Remember what it's like to be an intermediate?  You should pick up a new hobby, like White Water.  Sucking at something and being scarred of shit that folks joke about would do some folks some good.  Fear is all about perspective.  For someone like J. Pierre, he needs to be eyeing up hundred footers to get that feeling going.  For others, ridge view or cliff trail would do  it.  This thread is so subjective, it's kind of silly to tell people that this trail, or that trail is not scarry....and more of just a personal ego thing for you maybe...


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## jerryg (Dec 28, 2009)

JD said:


> Remember what it's like to be an intermediate?  You should pick up a new hobby, like White Water.  Sucking at something and being scarred of shit that folks joke about would do some folks some good.  Fear is all about perspective.  For someone like J. Pierre, he needs to be eyeing up hundred footers to get that feeling going.  For others, ridge view or cliff trail would do  it.  This thread is so subjective, it's kind of silly to tell people that this trail, or that trail is not scarry....and more of just a personal ego thing for you maybe...



Fair enough. I should have put, "in my opinion," in my post. I agree it's subjective, but that only goes so far given that the poster was comapring a trail to another trail that may or may not be much more difficult. 

It has nothing to do with ego. I don't think of myself as a great skier or anything as such. I am, however, realistic.


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## tjf67 (Dec 28, 2009)

TylerDurden said:


> Scariest trails in the NE, seriously?  I haven't found anything that comes close to the West, Alta and Snowbird.  Even the most viable double blacks in the NE are at most a double blue out west.



Really??  You need to get out of PA and head north.    There are things in the east that would make anyone think twice before jumping in.  We are not the West but your statement is plain silly.


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## riverc0il (Dec 28, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Really??  You need to get out of PA and head north.    There are things in the east that would make anyone think twice before jumping in.  We are not the West but your statement is plain silly.


I gotta disagree here and support TylerDurden's statement. Strictly talking "trails", there are not many trails in the east with much pucker factor compared to what they put on the map out west (at least in reasonable conditions). I think a lot of folks that have never skied the northeast would be more "scared" about the conditions than the trails themselves. Perhaps some of the tighter glades would cause some second thoughts from western skiers. But for on map trails, the west has a lot more pucker than the east does on map (discounting conditions and just addressing the trails themselves). Expand terrain to include off map and now we are talking.


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## campgottagopee (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I gotta disagree here and support TylerDurden's statement. Strictly talking "trails", there are not many trails in the east with much pucker factor compared to what they put on the map out west (at least in reasonable conditions). I think a lot of folks that have never skied the northeast would be more "scared" about the conditions than the trails themselves. Perhaps some of the tighter glades would cause some second thoughts from western skiers. But for on map trails, the west has a lot more pucker than the east does on map (discounting conditions and just addressing the trails themselves). Expand terrain to include off map and now we are talking.



Wouldn't the conditions be part of the trail tho??? I understand your point but conditions here in the NE are what make the eastern skier better than the western skier.


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## riverc0il (Dec 28, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Wouldn't the conditions be part of the trail tho??? I understand your point but conditions here in the NE are what make the eastern skier better than the western skier.


Conditions are not part of the trail because they are variable whereas the trail is constant. Besides, western areas have days when conditions are not ideal as well.... just not as often at many of the better western mountains and folks are so used to skiing powder they just don't bother when it sucks that bad.


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## 2knees (Dec 28, 2009)

when did you get out west?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I gotta disagree here and support TylerDurden's statement. Strictly talking "trails", there are not many trails in the east with much pucker factor compared to what they put on the map out west (at least in reasonable conditions). I think a lot of folks that have never skied the northeast would be more "scared" about the conditions than the trails themselves. Perhaps some of the tighter glades would cause some second thoughts from western skiers. But for on map trails, the west has a lot more pucker than the east does on map (discounting conditions and just addressing the trails themselves). Expand terrain to include off map and now we are talking.



Is there more difficult terrain out west? yes

Suggesting that there is nothing 'scary' in the east is false.....don't care how good a skier you are.  Suggesting that a double diamond like lift line on Madonna would be a double blue out west is also false.

There is some truth to his statement, but much of it is of the whip it out variety.


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## tjf67 (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I gotta disagree here and support TylerDurden's statement. Strictly talking "trails", there are not many trails in the east with much pucker factor compared to what they put on the map out west (at least in reasonable conditions). I think a lot of folks that have never skied the northeast would be more "scared" about the conditions than the trails themselves. Perhaps some of the tighter glades would cause some second thoughts from western skiers. But for on map trails, the west has a lot more pucker than the east does on map (discounting conditions and just addressing the trails themselves). Expand terrain to include off map and now we are talking.




Never been on the tram line over at cannon but I am certain there are spots on that trail that make you stop.   You have never been in the slides.   

We are not close the west but to say there are no trails in the East that dont make you think twice is silly.  You must not be looking hard enough.


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## riverc0il (Dec 28, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Suggesting that there is nothing 'scary' in the east is false.....don't care how good a skier you are.


I never suggested there was not. As others have pointed out, scary is relative. That said, based on what I have seen online (no, 2knees, I have never been out west but one need not actually visit a location to understand the basic facts) the west has a significant amount more pucker on map than the east. That is all I was saying... that folks were jumping on another posters comment a bit too defensively... as many easterns tend to be.


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## riverc0il (Dec 28, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Never been on the tram line over at cannon but I am certain there are spots on that trail that make you stop.   You have never been in the slides.
> 
> We are not close the west but to say there are no trails in the East that dont make you think twice is silly.  You must not be looking hard enough.


AGAIN when did "not many" suddenly mean "none"? C'mon guys, get real. I never said "none" and I have skied pretty much every on map trail with any pucker factor in the east except the Slides at WF and the steeper offerings at Smuggs like Liftline. YES the east does have on map pucker. I NEVER SAID IT DOES NOT!

:uzi: :angry:


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## deadheadskier (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I never suggested there was not. As others have pointed out, scary is relative. That said, based on what I have seen online (no, 2knees, I have never been out west but one need not actually visit a location to understand the basic facts) the west has a significant amount more pucker on map than the east. That is all I was saying... that folks were jumping on another posters comment a bit too defensively... as many easterns tend to be.



you weren't saying that, but the person people were jumping on was saying that there is essentially nothing more difficult than a western double blue in the east.  Such a statement is false and a lightening rod for deserved criticism.  I don't think people's reaction to such a statement is being overly defensive.

.....but defensive, like scary is relative


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## 2knees (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> (no, 2knees, I have never been out west but one need not actually visit a location to understand the basic facts)



I couldnt agree more.  I only asked because i once made a comment regarding a basic fact of mad river glen and you jumped on me for never having skied there and therefor had no basis for an opinion.  

carry on though.


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## tjf67 (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> I gotta disagree here and support TylerDurden's statement. Strictly talking "trails", there are not many trails in the east with much pucker factor compared to what they put on the map out west (at least in reasonable conditions). I think a lot of folks that have never skied the northeast would be more "scared" about the conditions than the trails themselves. Perhaps some of the tighter glades would cause some second thoughts from western skiers. But for on map trails, the west has a lot more pucker than the east does on map (discounting conditions and just addressing the trails themselves). Expand terrain to include off map and now we are talking.




This is where you said it.  Look at what I wrote and then you disagreed.  I plainly stated we are not the west.
just saying


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## JD (Dec 28, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> AGAIN when did "not many" suddenly mean "none"? C'mon guys, get real. I never said "none" and I have skied pretty much every on map trail with any pucker factor in the east except the Slides at WF and the steeper offerings at Smuggs like Liftline. YES the east does have on map pucker. I NEVER SAID IT DOES NOT!
> 
> :uzi: :angry:



So you're saying nothing in the east scares you?


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## bosrocker51 (Feb 7, 2010)

Climbing - The Headwall at Tuckerman's is really steep. It is dangerous there in the spring. Chunks of ice peel off the cliffs and can be lethal. Be careful at Tuckerman's Revine 

Scary steep? Well, I don't have a lot of perspective. I don't find most trails scary steep. Although, the original Jaws of Death at Mt. Snow, the 1st year they cut it was so narrow the tails of my 205cm Fischer Alu's hit the trees on either side. Then they widened it - boring. The old Superstar trail at Killington was pretty scary because it was so narrow & would get icy. 

I'd like to try White heat at SR.


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