# Winter Routes to the 48??



## pedxing (Jan 31, 2005)

Does anyone know of source for mileage and elevation gains for the best winter routes to the 48.  To date, I've just used the warm weather info on M. Ellozy's web site and tried to add in guestimates of the road walk based on what I see from my topo maps - but has anyone put this together as systematicall as for the warm weather routes and distances?

I hiked the Hancocks this w/e and have a couple more trips planned this winter, and I'm begining to think about trying to get the winter 48 over the next 3 to 6 winters.  Thus far, I'm at a paltry 8.


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## Mohamed Ellozy (Jan 31, 2005)

I have gradually started adding winter route info to my site.

Note that the driving directions in the _WMG_ will, in most cases, give you the driving (or walking, in winter) distance on the Forest Service roads.

Steve Smith and Mike Dickerman give excellent info on winter routes, including distances, in their _4,000 Footers of the White Mountains_ book.


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## pedxing (Feb 1, 2005)

Thanks Mohamed!


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## Mike P. (Feb 1, 2005)

As property conditions change, some of the distances change.  Will Cabot Trail repopen anytime soon, probably the shortest way for Cabot, some day maybe

Will Cog run next winter?

Shortest way to Galehead via Beaver Brook XC

Access from 7 Dwarfs road for Twins? (yes but be polite, ask where to park & 
patronizing the business would be good)

Bonds, (via Hellbrook bushwhack or not) 

Jefferson via Castle but Jewell & Gulfside may be better if Cog remains open, I have not checked that


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## Stephen (Feb 1, 2005)

Gosh I gotta get up there next winter.

I can just see telling my wife: "Honey, I'm going hiking... in the winter... in the White Mountains." She's gonna flip.

-Stephen


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## pedxing (Feb 1, 2005)

I just go over my safety equipment with my wife, assure her that I won't go alone and that I won't push my luck if conditions look dicey.   I also invite her along and have taken her on some short  hikes.

I headed out with a woman from VFTT once for a winter hike. Her husband isn't keen on winter hiking, and is concerned about her safety should she hike solo.  She said she told him, that he might be the only man in America that encouraged his wife to meet up with men she found on the internet.


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## Mike P. (Feb 2, 2005)

Stephen, 

Break her in slowly, go in late April, you may need snowshoes & crampons still.  Pictures of snow in the spring will get her used to seeing you in snow & ice

Go in the fall,  while she is thinking leaves on the ground, after Columbus Day you very likely will have some Rime Ice on trees near the Alpine Zone & snow above 3,000 feet.  Maybe not on 10/20 but by 11/3 or so

Hook up with some all season hikers, VFTT has a section for listing trips people are going on.  I've been hiking with several of the people over there & can vouch for many of them.  In addition, I usually get a trip in mid-November up there, if the schedules work I'd be happy to have you along.

Most of the time in from 10/1 through 11/15 you should be okay with nothing more than crampons if you carry all that gear the WMG Guide says you should carry on a summer hike on Mt. Washington.  In Late October on the open 4k's  you probably will get a chance to use it if you're summer weather has been great.


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## MichaelJ (Feb 3, 2005)

Stephen,

As Mike says, start with a group, either from here or another web site. Seeing that you're going with a significant number of accomplished hikers will help ease the anxiety.

In fact, you can point her to online photo albums of the people you'll be hiking with, just to really emphasize how safe and fun it can be when done right.


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## Max (Feb 3, 2005)

MichaelJ said:
			
		

> In fact, you can point her to online photo albums of the people you'll be hiking with, just to really emphasize how safe and fun it can be when done right.



 :lol:  You mean photos like your avatar?  Who is that masked man???


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## smitty77 (Feb 3, 2005)

Max said:
			
		

> :lol:  You mean photos like your avatar?  Who is that masked man???


If there wasn't any snow in the background, I would think it was a recruiting poster for an Al Qaeda training camp!


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## MichaelJ (Feb 3, 2005)

Heh-heh. And though you can't see it, I'm standing under a long strand of prayer flags. Look out!


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## Mike P. (Feb 3, 2005)

Thanks to Michael & Sherpa K & the Gathering's, there are pictures of almost everyone out there, most complimentary but I think there are a few you may want to keep from the wife too.  (a self picture of Sherpa on S.Twin & another self picture that Chomp took in his tent in WY acouple of years ago. come to mind & meeting Michael at the trailhead can be a good idea too.)    :beer: 

Me on Adams with convertible pant legs over my boots looking like 80's leg warmers - with long underwear looking like legging is not great either


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## blacknblue (Feb 21, 2005)

Stephen said:
			
		

> I can just see telling my wife: "Honey, I'm going hiking... in the winter... in the White Mountains." She's gonna flip.
> 
> -Stephen


Yeah... wives and moms are not the people to be telling about this stuff.  My rule is to not talk about such adventures until June, then it's happened long enough ago to not be a big deal, and it will be forgotten by the next winter!  They just don't appreciate stories about being stranded on Bondcliff in a snowstorm at night; I don't know why.


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## pedxing (Feb 24, 2005)

Actually, the person I've done my last two winter hikes with is a wife.   Her husband usually doesn't want to go, but she is winter hardy and out all the time.   And I've had a hard time keeping up with a couple of Moms on winter hikes.  So lets not over-generalize about wives and Mom's.

My wife will come along a few times a year and is fine with my soloing in the summer - but in winter she wants to know I'm with people and I've not experienced enough bed conditions in the Whites to feel experienced enough for a winter solo at this point .


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## Mike P. (Feb 24, 2005)

pedexing;

I think the best way to get used to less than mediocre to poor wnter conditions, 
is to get used to bad October or April Conditions on summits you know & have fairly quick escapes into cover. 

(the idea being you want to turn around in bad,brutal or horrific winter conditions, IMO good & bad is not enough of a description like the Inuits with their 78 words for snow, i think i only use about 10 for winter weather)  

Some of the worse weather I've encountered that I remember would be, in no order:

Winter Race & Everett in MA cold day & decent wind speed
Winter Greylock, my 2nd trip hands & feet cold, partner 1st time wanted to linger up there, I think I swore at him, tossed him the camera & departed, he was 100 yards behind 7 faster than me
Winter 96 Madison Hut with EMS School
10/30/98 North & South Twin  70 - 90 MPH on Washington made me change my presidentials itenerary
10/23/98  Ike & Pierce wind less than week before & conditions improved so on Pierce it was great, Ike was work to get across summit
12/97 Pierce late fall no snowshoes,  we were so wiped by postholing that when we got to junction with Webster cliff & saw another drift ion cold windy day with 50 feet or less visibility, we turned around & I'm a peakbagger
11/15/98 or 97 Garfield, we got out of trees & just about dove into foundation to get out of wind
April 99 Franconia Ridge flurries & mixed precip blowned into face

Except for the winter trip with EMS none of these conditions IMO equalled what really bad/brutal winter conditions can be on the Presidentials.  Because temps were a little warmer tree cover fairly close or elevation (MA) lower, I knew I could escape.  (Race/Everett, Twins, & F-Ridge were solos)  
If I ran into those conditions again but in winter on the higher peaks, would I continue, no.  In April or October again on those same peaks yes, on Washinton or Northern peaks, in Oct or Nov.  probably not.

In the end you need to experience those conditions with people you trust to make the same decision you would (if you are a flee at first drop/flake or a summit or die type  - 99.5% of us are somewhere in between but at different spots - you may think I'm a wimp or summit hungry fool destined to die) or  out by yourself in nearly those conditions on well knowned terrain with quick escapes.


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## pedxing (Feb 27, 2005)

Thanks for the thoughts and notes Mike. 

I'm not sure if I'll ever winter solo - except in places already familiar to me and well traveled.  It's hard to get past the fact that if you are injured badly alone in winter that you could easily be done for - unless someone helps you out. 

Right now I'm winter hiking with at least one other person who is as experienced in winter as I, or more so.   Probably next winter I will feel comfortable bringing along less experienced hikers without having someone more experienced.    So far, I haven't  hit winds past about 65 mph - but they feel very different when it is very cold. 

I started winter hiking in the hopes of staying in good hiking shape year round, but winter hiking and bushwacking have become addictive.


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## Charlie Schuessler (Feb 27, 2005)

pedxing said:
			
		

> ...winter hiking and bushwacking have become addictive...



How TRUE!  

We try not to be anti-social, but my wife & I find winter hiking more fun than the rest of the year...


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