# Crashed groomer/new Jay Peak run



## fbrissette (Jan 13, 2013)

Happened yesterday morning, just off of Ull'rs, right below the Wedelmaster.  It is a lot steeper than it looks on the pic.  They tried to winch it out with another groomer but could not.   They had to open up a 300-400 ft long swath behind the groomer to get it out.   Nice new trail, with a 30+ degrees entrance.


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## Nick (Jan 13, 2013)

Wow! I guess that's one way to get some new terrain.


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## fbrissette (Jan 13, 2013)

Nick said:


> Wow! I guess that's one way to get some new terrain.



Yep.  No need to bother with any Vermont environmental regulations.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 13, 2013)

Does this new run fully connect between two other trails?

New trail name suggestions? Should probably name it after the guy who crashed the groomer in there.


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## dmw (Jan 13, 2013)

Groomer's Goof.


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## fbrissette (Jan 13, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> Does this new run fully connect between two other trails?



It connects back with Ullr's just after goes it goes through the 90 degree turns at Beaver Pond.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 13, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> Yep.  No need to bother with any Vermont environmental regulations.



I'm sure a lawsuit, on behalf of the now dead trees, will be promptly filed Monday morning.  :roll:


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## deadheadskier (Jan 13, 2013)

maybe call it Whoops!


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## songfta (Jan 13, 2013)

Go for the ironic name: call it "Groomer" and never, ever groom it.


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## fbrissette (Jan 13, 2013)

songfta said:


> Go for the ironic name: call it "Groomer" and never, ever groom it.



+1


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## Nick (Jan 13, 2013)

songfta said:


> Go for the ironic name: call it "Groomer" and never, ever groom it.



I like this idea


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 13, 2013)

songfta said:


> Go for the ironic name: call it "Groomer" and never, ever groom it.



Jiminy Peak has a run called "mogal thing". It is always groomed.......

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 13, 2013)

To further triangulate this, looking at the trail map,  is this cut out of the triangle of woods formed by JFK, Wedelmaster, and Ullr's Dream?



Nick said:


> Wow! I guess that's one way to get some new terrain.



If it happened to be a somewhat old groomer, I'm sure the conspiracy theories will commence!


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## fbrissette (Jan 13, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> To further triangulate this, looking at the trail map,  is this cut out of the triangle of woods formed by JFK, Wedelmaster, and Ullr's Dream?
> 
> 
> 
> If it happened to be a somewhat old groomer, I'm sure the conspiracy theories will commence!



It is indeed in this triangle, at the extreme west-end.  It does not impede on the unmarked glades in there if that is what you are wondering about.  Here it is in the yellow line:


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 13, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> *It is indeed in this triangle, at the extreme west-end.*  It does not impede on the unmarked glades in there *if that is what you are wondering *about.  Here it is in the yellow line:



Gotcha.   The reason I was a bit perplexed, is that Jay Peak has already added it to their online trail map*.  


*I'd post a picture, but I'm not computer savvy enough to know how to save an image that isnt already in image form.  But if you go to the map, they've indeed already added that small cut, which I couldnt remember being there from memory.  Could be about 275 to 400 feet depending on exactly where it went in.

I'd go with either: Snowcat's Slip or Groomer's Folly.   I like the double-meaning of Snowcat's Slip.


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## gregnye (Jan 13, 2013)

^^^Snowcat's slip is a pretty good name!


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## gregnye (Jan 13, 2013)

It must be pretty steep. Would it be a black? or is it just a short headwall and then really flat. Can someone verify  I will look at it when I go up next weekend


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## MBRI (Jan 13, 2013)

S__T Happens Trail


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## ss20 (Jan 13, 2013)

Hello AlpineZone.
Potential names:
Tree Trimmer
Tree Tipper
Doom Groom
You're Fired


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## Smellytele (Jan 13, 2013)

I saw that today and was wondering what that was all about


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## Sick Bird Rider (Jan 13, 2013)

That would be Lower Dogpatch.


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## fbrissette (Jan 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Gotcha.   The reason I was a bit perplexed, is that Jay Peak has already added it to their online trail map*.
> 
> 
> *I'd post a picture, but I'm not computer savvy enough to know how to save an image that isnt already in image form.  But if you go to the map, they've indeed already added that small cut, which I couldnt remember being there from memory.  Could be about 275 to 400 feet depending on exactly where it went in.
> ...



I did not notice that the cut is on their online trail map.  Very strange.  It is not on the 2011-2012 paper map (don't have the 2012-2013 paper map with me).  Either the marketing guys were very quick on their feet and modified the map almost in real time or the cut was planned and it is a strange coincidence.

Just looked at Jay Peak concept master plan (version 5, just a few weeks old AFAIK) and the cut is not there, so I have to assume that they are really quick at modifying the website. This is rather surprising since I doubt this was done in house.  May be Steve Wright will chime in.




gregnye said:


> It must be pretty steep. Would it be a black? or is it just a short headwall and then really flat. Can someone verify I will look at it when I go up next weekend



The entrance is steep but after a couple of turns, it will be intermediate pitch.  It more or less follow the grade and avoids the flat area around the entrance of the Beaver. 

Now that they've added a new intermediate run, I don't think they need that new run past Timbuktu anymore...


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 14, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I did not notice that the cut is on their online trail map.  Very strange.  It is not on the 2011-2012 paper map (don't have the 2012-2013 paper map with me).  Either the marketing guys were very quick on their feet and modified the map almost in real time or the cut was planned and it is a strange coincidence.
> 
> Just looked at Jay Peak concept master plan (version 5, just a few weeks old AFAIK) and the cut is not there, so I have to assume that they are really quick at modifying the website. This is rather surprising since I doubt this was done in house.  May be Steve Wright will chime in.
> 
> ...



I like the idea as "Groomer" as a name and never grooming it. The trail is too short to support a name that is any longer. A longer name would not pass Riverc0il's critera for naming a trail (If the trail name cannot fit into the trail on the trailmap, the trail is probably too short to be on the trailmap in the firstplace... or something like that  ).

I don't recall ever seeing that on the trailmap but it would only take about 5 minutes to make that simple modification to the base image and upload it to the website. Pretty funny that they got it up there that fast. Here is a screen capture from the Jay online map with the red arrow pointing to the new trail.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 14, 2013)

Anyone know how said groomer got into that position?  

Will JP have to "eliminate" some other "forest" disturbance because of this, or revegetate the area?


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 14, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> *I did not notice that the cut is on their online trail map.  Very strange.*  It is not on the 2011-2012 paper map (don't have the 2012-2013 paper map with me).



Now you can see why I was confused.  I didnt remember that cut being there, it seemed to be about where you described, and <24 hours it was on the map.



from_the_NEK said:


> *Here is a screen capture* from the Jay online map with the red arrow pointing to the new trail.



How do you do that, just hit print screen and save it as a picture file or something?



fbrissette said:


> *Now that they've added a new intermediate run, I don't think they need that new run past Timbuktu* anymore...









 I will be so angry if they mess with Timbuktu.


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## fbrissette (Jan 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> How do you do that, just hit print screen and save it as a picture file or something?



Don't know what _from_the_NEK_ is using but I use the following:

http://download.cnet.com/MWSnap/3000-2072_4-10524229.html

It is a very light free app.  Start it, select the 'snap any area' tool in the toolbar and save as an image file.


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## Glenn (Jan 14, 2013)

Possible Names:

Act 250 Bypass

Biting Shumlin's nose to spite the mountain face


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## Nick (Jan 14, 2013)

On Windows 7 I just use the built in capture tool.


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 14, 2013)

I do a print screen, paste into PaintShop Pro, crop what I want, save it to JPEG, and post it to the webz.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 14, 2013)

Glenn said:


> Possible Names:
> 
> Act 250 Bypass
> 
> Biting Shumlin's nose to spite the mountain face




We have a winner


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## fbrissette (Jan 14, 2013)

Nick said:


> On Windows 7 I just use the built in capture tool.




Holy cow.  Can you believe I did not know this thing existed ?????


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 14, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> Holy cow.  Can you believe I did not know this thing existed ?????



I'll have to try to find that later, I didnt either.  I would have gone the print screen route were I extremely motivated.


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## riverc0il (Jan 14, 2013)

It was already on the map... this map was posted in November:
http://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/202


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 14, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> It was already on the map... *this map was posted in November:*
> http://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/202



  That doesn't seem possible as it would mean it's a trail they meant to cut. Maybe that website auto-pulls from whatever is currently on Jay's page, but the November date remains from when the map was first pulled?


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## riverc0il (Jan 14, 2013)

The map isn't from Jay's site. Jay uses a dynamic map on their web site. That map is sourced from the ski map web site. Here is the direct URL:
http://skimap.org/data/202/916/1353202058.jpg

The web site has a post date of November. I have no reason to doubt the Ski Map web site in its authenticity of dating.

There are two possible explanations: the cut was already made and even Jay regulars had not yet noticed it or the cut was planned to be made and this is a total coincidence. What say the people that actually saw the cut? Can you report if the cut looked fresh or not? Or is all of this second hand? Who was actually there and can comment?


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## fbrissette (Jan 14, 2013)

riverc0il said:


> The map isn't from Jay's site. Jay uses a dynamic map on their web site. That map is sourced from the ski map web site. Here is the direct URL:
> http://skimap.org/data/202/916/1353202058.jpg
> 
> The web site has a post date of November. I have no reason to doubt the Ski Map web site in its authenticity of dating.
> ...



Let me make this very clear.  The cut was made this Saturday.  the pic I posted was taken Saturday morning around 10h30AM.  We were the first one to get there after they fropped the ropes.  The area was cleared because of the winching attempts with another groomer.  The pic is taken directly in the direction of the cut.  If I had taken another picture on Sunday (I did not because I did not have my phone on Sunday), you would see Ullr's 300 to 400 feet behind the groomer, where you see a mature forest.  

This is absolutely crazy. Has to be the strangest coincidence ever on a ski hill or was BenedictGomez right when he mentioned conspiracy ?


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## riverc0il (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks, fbrissette. Didn't mean to make my comment like I was calling you out... I don't think you specifically said you were there and it was first hand, or if you did then I missed it.

I think you are right... either very freaky coincidence or conspiracy. Wouldn't be the first time Jay cut a trail on the sly. HA!


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 14, 2013)

Seems kind of silly of them to risk huge fines and penalties for a meaningless trail bump.


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## Nick (Jan 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'll have to try to find that later, I didnt either.  I would have gone the print screen route were I extremely motivated.



Just look for "snipping tool" I think is what it is called.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 14, 2013)

I still think the most likely option is that Jay very quickly, in < 24 hours updated the trail map. 

1) Why on earth would Jay have a cut on its' trail map that literally didn't exist, and never existed on its' maps in years prior?

2) Am I really supposed to believe that an "accident" just happened to happen at the precise location of said "magical cut", which probably represents 0.0001% of their skiable terrain?


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 15, 2013)

Looks like it was there on the 1985 trailmap too 

http://skimap.org/data/202/7/1209848621.jpg


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## fbrissette (Jan 15, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Looks like it was there on the 1985 trailmap too
> 
> http://skimap.org/data/202/7/1209848621.jpg



Wow... They've been planning this fake groomer accident for 27 years...   And the plot thickens.


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## Smellytele (Jan 15, 2013)

They must have been trying to reclaim it and then got in over their heads


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 15, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> *Looks like it was there on the 1985 trailmap too*



I just pulled out a trail map I happened to have around from last year (2011/12), and it's on there as well, yet from the satellite imagery below you can see there wasn't a trail there as of last year.

<--- officially thoroughly confused


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## Glenn (Jan 15, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> We have a winner




I laughed at my own jokes when typing those out. I know...cheezy. :lol:


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## AdironRider (Jan 15, 2013)

There any utilities or snowmaking pipe running the line? 

Thats my explanation at least. Put in a high voltage line or something of that ilk back in the day which required clearing?


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 15, 2013)

The trail map I printed from Jay's website 6-7 years ago hanging in my office does not show said cut...


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 15, 2013)

jimmywilson69 said:


> The trail map I printed from Jay's website 6-7 years ago hanging in my office does not show said cut...



So this thing is the Brigadoon of ski trails?  

There is 1985, gone in 2005, there again in 2011, and now actually cut as a trail.  Someone go ski Jay tomorrow, maybe it's fully grown in with trees and not there anymore.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 16, 2013)

Yeah it is certainly weird.  The map I printed was a pdf of their "printable" trail map that they had on the website of that time period.


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## Glenn (Jan 16, 2013)

Taxpayersforjay.com


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## riverc0il (Jan 20, 2013)

Was up there today and just happened to pass the location in question.

Interestingly enough, the current rendition of the trail map is not accurate. It shows Wedelmaster joining Ull'rs at the Beaver Pond elbow and the "not trail" being off Wedelmaster. 

But in fact (and you can see this in BG's lift from google satellite image), Wedel merges with Ullr's well before the Beaver intersection and the groomer rescue cut is decidedly off Ullr's _just a bit _past the merger of Wedel and Ullr's. The trail map has this "not trail" decidedly off Wedel a bit before the merger but that doesn't line up with reality.






Couldn't see to far down there but looks like it would be skiable with a bunch more snow.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 20, 2013)

Excellent detective work.

I'm still confused as hell though.


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## BigJay (Jan 24, 2013)

That trail has never been there... But that extra "loop" from 1985 was something completely different before they widened the Ullr's pitch to include snowmaking. You can see that the Ullr's use to be so much narrower... as you make the 90deg turn to the right, notice how wide and "up" that trail goes to the right... that use to be the original alignement... but with grooming and snowmaking, the trail got "optimized" (neutered?)


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