# Wates 78 for Intermediate/Advanced skier?



## adamh (Dec 29, 2010)

Do you think the Watea 78 is a good choice for an east coast skier as my first real pair? I'm probably on the border of intermediate/advance capabilities and am hoping to go a lot more than usual and improve this year. I am a 6 feet, 185 pounds male.

Also, what size would you recommend if yes? 174?


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## gmcunni (Dec 29, 2010)

Hey Adam, i'm not a knowledge gear guy but i don't think that ski is a bad choice. I've never skied Watea before but lots of people here have and like them.  My only thought is they might be a bit on the skinny side (but that really depends on the type of skiing you enjoy most).  I ski a 84mm ski after skiing on 77mm for many years. i like the added width in all but the most firm conditions.

5' 7" @ 200 lbs and i ski a 170. I demoed a 176 ski yesterday and didn't notice the difference at all, i think 174 would be good for you.


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## adamh (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks GM. I pretty much stay on the groomers for the most part. I guess i'd say i'm more of an aggressive recreational skier. I wouldn't rule out expanding my horizons though.


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## adamh (Dec 29, 2010)

After looking around it looks like a lot of people also enjoyed the Blizzard 8.1 and the Dynastar Legend 8k. Any thoughts on these compared to the Watea 78/84? Thanks in advance guys and gals.


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## gmcunni (Dec 29, 2010)

i was going to suggest finding a demo day at a mountain near you but our list of demos doesn't show much for the remainder of the season.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=82588


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## adamh (Dec 29, 2010)

Yeah, I missed the boat on those unfortunately. I'm almost ready to just take some good advice and run with it.


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## bigbog (Dec 29, 2010)

adamh said:


> After looking around it looks like a lot of people also enjoyed the Blizzard 8.1 and the Dynastar Legend 8k. Any thoughts on these compared to the Watea 78/84? Thanks in advance guys and gals.


Fwiw.(not quite the scientific edge adamh...but here goes..).
I'm ~180lbs I really didn't find the 84s had much edgehold on hardpack the morning in late March that I demoed them a few seasons ago...and I tried to give them time to hookup too.    Their tip to tail flex is obviously nice for softer snow. I suppose the 78s would have a little better chance on the hardpack...y/n?  Haven't skied the 8.1 but its reviews = really good ..reviews sound like a stiffer ski, like most Blizzards.  The 8000...everyone can give a few words to...imho a pretty good middle-of-the-road(not literally) ski...a little light in edgegrip on hardpack(my $.01), but a ski most anyone can pick up on the fly and it'll work on the EC.

$.01


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## Greg (Dec 29, 2010)

The older 8K sucks on hard pack. I can't speak on the 2008+ models, but my 07's rule in any type of soft snow and are very good in the bumps. At 185 you can probably jump up to the high 170's in terms of length. Go shorter (no shorter than ~172 though) for bumps or trees. I'm 170 lbs and like a mid 170's length ski.


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## WJenness (Dec 29, 2010)

bigbog said:


> Fwiw.(not quite the scientific edge adamh...but here goes..).
> I'm ~180lbs I really didn't find the 84s had much edgehold on hardpack the morning in late March that I demoed them a few seasons ago...and I tried to give them time to hookup too.    Their tip to tail flex is obviously nice for softer snow. I suppose the 78s would have a little better chance on the hardpack...y/n?  Haven't skied the 8.1 but its reviews = really good ..reviews sound like a stiffer ski, like most Blizzards.  The 8000...everyone can give a few words to...imho a pretty good middle-of-the-road(not literally) ski...a little light in edgegrip on hardpack(my $.01), but a ski most anyone can pick up on the fly and it'll work on the EC.
> 
> $.01



I'm a big dude too (6'4", 250Lbs (before adding ski gear)), I ski the Watea 84 in a 184cm... I think it holds an edge quite well... 

On everything but the iciest of the icy days, I'm very happy on this ski.

For the super icy days... I'll stick to the rip sticks that I just bought from wa-loaf... 

-w


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## riverc0il (Dec 29, 2010)

adamh said:


> Do you think the Watea 78 is a good choice for an east coast skier as my first real pair? I'm probably on the border of intermediate/advance capabilities and am hoping to go a lot more than usual and improve this year. I am a 6 feet, 185 pounds male.
> 
> Also, what size would you recommend if yes? 174?


What type of ski conditions do you primarily ski? Are you working towards anything technically? Where do you see yourself in three years?

The Watea series is damn fine. I ski the 94 currently and love it. For your height, weight, and level, the 174 would likely be fine. I would recommend this ski for something that enjoys skiing the entire mountain. If you ski only groomers, you are looking in the wrong category. You'll find the Legend 8k (only available used now--my primary go to ski for non-powder natural non-groomed) well suited to natural snow but terrible on hard pack and scrapped conditions. 

If you want a one ski quiver that can do it all and enjoy natural snow, bumps, trees, and some groomer mixed in (perhaps 50/50), I think the Watea 78 would serve you well.


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## adamh (Dec 30, 2010)

River,

As of now, I ski pretty much strictly groomers. But I don't want to buy a ski that is going to limit what I can do in the future. I plan on skiing a lot this year and into the future, and hopefully improving and venturing into more technical terrain. But I would say the immediate future is pretty much groomers. Do you have any other suggestions?


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## mlctvt (Dec 30, 2010)

I think a good ski might be what I just upgraded to from the Legend 8000s, the Dynastar Sultan 85. 
Much better on the groomers, more stable at higher speeds than the 8000 but still good in the bumps and sightly wider too so better float in powder. 
The reviews are very good on this ski and I liked it alot after demoing a bunch of skis a few weeks ago. I would have liked to demo the Fishers but they were't at Mount Snow's demo day.


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## Edd (Dec 30, 2010)

Adam,

What are you looking to spend?


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## adamh (Dec 30, 2010)

Up to $600-700?


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## Edd (Dec 30, 2010)

That'll easily get you the Sultan 85 w/binding mentioned.  I wasn't a fan when I demoed it but I'm in the minority.  Definitely a versatile board that will hold a good edge and treat you ok off piste when ready.

I've skied the Watea 84 and wasn't thrilled with the edgehold personally (Sultan's is better) but good off-piste for sure. I've heard very good things about the 78 on groomers and it won't punish you off-trail.

The K2 Extreme's edgehold is no better than the Watea 84 but it's fun and versatile; skis the whole mountain competently and is cheap.

If you decide to stretch your budget just a bit you might want to demo the K2 Rictor or Volkl Kendo; newer versatile skis that are getting great reviews.

As a general guideline, if groomers are the priority with an eye towards off piste I'd keep the waist above 80.


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## billski (Dec 30, 2010)

adamh said:


> Yeah, I missed the boat on those unfortunately. I'm almost ready to just take some good advice and run with it.



Some on-mountain ski shops offer demos for a fairly reasonable fee.  What's great about onslope is like a demo day, you can try several in one day.  I have used them at wa-wa and Stowe ("Stowe Toys")  Call first and see what they have.


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## riverc0il (Dec 30, 2010)

adamh said:


> River,
> 
> As of now, I ski pretty much strictly groomers. But I don't want to buy a ski that is going to limit what I can do in the future. I plan on skiing a lot this year and into the future, and hopefully improving and venturing into more technical terrain. But I would say the immediate future is pretty much groomers. Do you have any other suggestions?


This is going to be a pretty unpopular opinion but here it goes. I think you are looking at the wrong class of skis. If you are currently strictly groomers, you should get a performance carving ski, not an all mountain mid-fat. When I was a developing off piste ski, I skied a lower end recreational model of a race ski. I skied it in the bumps and natural snow and the very very limited amount of powder and tree skiing I did back then. I primarily skied hard pack and it worked, it didn't limit me from going onto natural snow but since I primarily skied hard pack the vast majority of the time, it suited me quite well.

There it is. Everyone else can flame away and say FATTER AND ROCKER FOR EVERYONE!!! But for someone on groomers almost all the time with potential for dabbling in natural snow, its the incorrect choice, IMO, to go with a mid-fat all mountain ski.


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## gmcunni (Dec 30, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> This is going to be a pretty unpopular opinion but here it goes. I think you are looking at the wrong class of skis. If you are currently strictly groomers, you should get a performance carving ski, not an all mountain mid-fat.



is there a particular ski or two you would recommend in this category for Adam to consider?


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## Edd (Dec 30, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> There it is. Everyone else can flame away and say FATTER AND ROCKER FOR EVERYONE!!!



All I'm saying is that he should buy these right away:







Don't mind the tip and tail flap on hardpack.  That just means the ski is having fun!


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## riverc0il (Dec 30, 2010)

gmcunni said:


> is there a particular ski or two you would recommend in this category for Adam to consider?


Unfortunately, I am disconnected from what is available in this particular genre of skis right now as I have not paid attention to this segment of the market in some time. 

Perhaps something like the Fischer Progressor 8? Not sure if that would be a bit "too much" for someone self labeling as "intermediate/advanced".

Its also hard to read a self labeled description and know for certain what ski to recommend. This is not directed against the OP but just a general statement.... some folks under rate their abilities, some rate right on, but many over rate based on the fact that they can survive black diamonds survival skiing style.


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## billski (Dec 30, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> If you are currently strictly groomers, you should get a performance carving ski,



This is what I have for groomers and ice/hardpack.  I'm pleased as punch with them.  70 under foot.  They let me do speed and stay in control., going into pow beyond 6" where I want/need to float, they suck.  I'm lucky enough to have a quiver after all these years.  No more "all season tires" for me.  It's really true, not marketing hype that there are different tools for different jobs.  
For east coast pow, I'm 96 under foot, which is good enough for me.  For the few times I ski out west, I'll rent some fatties.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 30, 2010)

If I didn't do the night league racing. I think my narrowest ski would be in the 80's. I've demoed enough skis the last few years in that size that are really nice carvers.


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## WWF-VT (Jan 3, 2011)

adamh - the Watea 78 is my daily ski in a variety of conditions and would work well for you.  I have the Fischer RX8 as my  "performance carving ski" and have only used them once this season.   There are very few days when you need to have a groomer oriented vs all mountain ski if you plan to advance and ski a variety of terrain.


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 3, 2011)

So Adam good luck , you've gotten a myriad of opinions here from some excellent skiers and that can sometimes be more confusing than amusing. 

So back on target---------- the absolute BEST way to discover is to listen to it all BUT BE ABSOLUTELY HONEST with YOURSELF regarding ability and then GO AND FIND A PLACE TO DEMO , Don't rush to judgement based solely on reading stuff . Much of the printed stuff is hype and opinions are fine BUT often biased, hell we ALL got them 

Demo , demo demo is the best way 

good luck , have fun and let us know how u make out -- but remember _ It's ALL good


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## RootDKJ (Jan 3, 2011)

I mostly ski on piste groomed hard pack on an all-mountain mid-fat (Nordica Hot Rod Jet Fuel) and at 84mm width, I'm more confident on that ski then my 67mm width K2 Crossfires.


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## billski (Jan 3, 2011)

Warp Daddy said:


> So Adam good luck , you've gotten a myriad of opinions here from some excellent skiers and that can sometimes be more confusing than amusing.
> 
> So back on target---------- the absolute BEST way to discover is to listen to it all BUT BE ABSOLUTELY HONEST with YOURSELF regarding ability and then GO AND FIND A PLACE TO DEMO , Don't rush to judgement based solely on reading stuff . Much of the printed stuff is hype and opinions are fine BUT often biased, hell we ALL got them
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more.  The last GS skis I bought, I demo'd for an entire season.  In the end, I didn't care for any ski that was recommended either here(sorry guys), the press or in the shops.  I fell in love with something that wasn't on anyone's radar...


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 3, 2011)

Bill is right on target , my last 3 prs were NOT on my radar screen either until i was encouraged to Demo them in a  trials with several other prs on more than one occasion


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## Beetlenut (Jan 3, 2011)

Another thing about Demoing skis, is that if you are planning on buying, you can usually deduct the price of the demos from the price of the ski, if you stay with the same shop that you Demo from. I know Ski House in Somerset, Mass did this, and I think Anderson's in E. Greenwich does too. Some places will also let you exchange a pair of skis you purchased from them, for a different model or brand, if you don't like how they ski and you don't trash them on your first day out.


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## tjf67 (Jan 3, 2011)

An all mountain ski is going to be your best bet.  AC30 would be a great ski.  You r not going to want a super stiff ski .  A little softer ski is going to let you skid more. It will be easier and more fun to handle.


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## adamh (Jan 7, 2011)

New 2010 Watea 84 in 167 on sale at a local shop for $465 with bindings. Good deal?


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## JimG. (Jan 10, 2011)

adamh said:


> New 2010 Watea 84 in 167 on sale at a local shop for $465 with bindings. Good deal?



Good deal. I just bought a pair of Watea 78's with bindings on proform for $490.

Been on the 78's for 3 days now, loving this ski. Great on hardpack snow, they also ski bumps very well. And not a disaster in powder either, especially compared to my old RX8's. For me, the 78's are a great overall eastern ski.

Nice to get back to a light woodcore ski with a simple 2 piece binding. I guess it's true for any new ski, but after skiing on 5 year old torsional noodles I feel like a new skier on the 78's.

One thing to go back to the original topic, these skis prefer to be skiied very aggressively. Hard chargers for sure. Not a racing ski, but they love to go fast.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 10, 2011)

I came here today to post a thread about these skis and BAM here one is.

I would consider myself upper advanced skier.  I can ski steeps, trees, etc.  Bumps I am average at, and depending on how hard they are average may be a stretch.

I live and ski mostly in PA and ski hard pack, packed powder, you get the drift.   I currently ski on a volkl super sport 4 star (which is beneath my ability now) and a K2 Appache Outlaw.  The K2 ski's well as long as the snow is soft, even man made soft.  If there is alot of hard pack or ice it wants to chatter, but I don't have issues keeping an edge if I drive it.

Is this Ski for someone of my ability?   On Fisher's website it rates as a 5-8 skier.  I thik I am a solid 8-9 skier.

thanks for the suggestions.  And I will be demoing before I buy because my local shop has them to Demo.


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## JimG. (Jan 11, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I came here today to post a thread about these skis and BAM here one is.
> 
> I would consider myself upper advanced skier.  I can ski steeps, trees, etc.  Bumps I am average at, and depending on how hard they are average may be a stretch.
> 
> ...



Demo them, you will like them.

I tend to ignore ratings in magazines and on websites in favor of personal experience.

One important issue...my old RX8's were 170 cm and I bought the Watea 78's in the 181 cm length. Although the tips and tails are about as wide as the RX8's, the waist is much wider and thus the sidecut much smaller. Go longer or I believe you will not be happy with the performance.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks Jim!

181 seems a bit long for me.  I haven't skied a ski that long since the straight ski days.  Even then, I had downsized to a 178 on my last pair of atomic's that were straight.

Like I said, I have the option of skiing them before I buy.


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## JimG. (Jan 13, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Like I said, I have the option of skiing them before I buy.



Don't pass up the opportunity.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Jan 16, 2011)

Get them while they're still around...the 78 isn't in the 2011/2012 line up.  It's a great eastern ski for a solid intermediate through expert looking for one ski to do it all...but it's falling victim to the push towards wider waists.  $465 with bindings is a great deal...normal price is $549 for the ski alone.


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## mondeo (Jan 20, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I came here today to post a thread about these skis and BAM here one is.
> 
> I would consider myself upper advanced skier. I can ski steeps, trees, etc. Bumps I am average at, and depending on how hard they are average may be a stretch.
> 
> ...


I own the 94 and have demoed the 84. If I had a one ski quiver, the 84 would be near the top of the list. I don't, so it isn't. I wouldn't worry too much about the ability level on the website, they usually don't list anything other than race skis (or maybe their top powder and park skis) as a highest level ski.


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## WJenness (Jan 20, 2011)

mondeo said:


> I own the 94 and have demoed the 84. If I had a one ski quiver, the 84 would be near the top of the list. I don't, so it isn't. I wouldn't worry too much about the ability level on the website, they usually don't list anything other than race skis (or maybe their top powder and park skis) as a highest level ski.



I <3 the 84... It's my go to almost every day ski...

Trying to expand the quiver, so it's quickly going to lose most of it's usefulness, but it's still an awesome everyday ski.

-w


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## hammer (Jan 20, 2011)

I demo'ed the Watea and Motive last March.  I liked the Motive better but I'm pretty much a groomer skier.  I'd consider the Motives as a lighter alternative to the Elan Magfires I ski on now but I'd rather work on adding a race-oriented ski first.


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