# Attitash Summit Triple Problems 2018-2019



## thetrailboss (Jan 5, 2019)

A perennial item that folks want to see replaced.  I can recall all the way back to 2004 here when folks complained about it.  

According to liftblog.com, apparently Attitash is having serious issues with it as of late.  Sounds like a lot of electrical issues.  

https://www.attitash.com/blog/lifts/summit/

And I also saw that they had a big power outage recently due to a squirrel.  Yikes.  

Looks like this may be replaced sooner rather than later.  Or maybe more band aids put on it.  It's also funny how little I ever hear about Attitash on here or in general.  I remember that 25 years ago it was a pretty popular spot.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 6, 2019)

Judging by the laundry list of items already addressed and the amount of manpower being utilized I would assume they are slowly reaching their breaking point on what is one of the most hated lifts in east coast history. Added with the recent removal of the old double (and reluctance to touch the "overpass" ) I bet that liftline is the route they will take with a replacement. I just hope it'll  be NH's first bubble.... that would definetly bring some much needed interest in what I believe iis one of the best skiing mountains in NH


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## deadheadskier (Jan 6, 2019)

I get that the shared tower would be an engineering nightmare to work out a replacement, especially with how important the lift is for summer operations.  I think putting a replacement HsQ up the top notch Liftline would be a poor choice.  The Yankee is already very close to the base lodge. Adding a second HSQ right there would be a mess.  It would only make sense if they relocated the Yankee base to where the triple is now.  Otherwise you have a huge gap between the high speed chairs and the Thad's area. 

Definitely agree with you on Attitash having great terrain though.  I'd rate it the fourth best ski terrain in the state behind Wildcat, Cannon and Loom

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## DoublePlanker (Jan 6, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> I get that the shared tower would be an engineering nightmare to work out a replacement, especially with how important the lift is for summer operations. I think putting a replacement HsQ up the top notch Liftline would be a poor choice. The Yankee is already very close to the base lodge. Adding a second HSQ right there would be a mess. It would only make sense if they relocated the Yankee base to where the triple is now. Otherwise you have a huge gap between the high speed chairs and the Thad's area.
> 
> Definitely agree with you on Attitash having great terrain though. I'd rate it the fourth best ski terrain in the state behind Wildcat, Cannon and Loom
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Yankee lift was stupid.  Half measures don't work.  I get they have an alpine slide.  

Can't they just reuse some parts of the Yankee and put in a HSQ to the summit and clean it all up?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 6, 2019)

I think the Yankee is fine.  I like being able to lap Grand Stand and Lower Ptarmigan on warm spring days when they are bumped up.   Keep some of the traffic down low helps with the limited terrain off the summit; most of which is too advanced for intermediate skiers.  If you forced everyone up to the top, Northwest Passage and Saco would be a skating rink by 10AM. 

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## jmgard (Jan 6, 2019)

Flying Yankee kinda feels like you are skiing Crotched... not huge vertical but very quick laps on some fun trails


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## catherine (Jan 6, 2019)

Looks like they fixed the lift.


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## Katahdin (Jan 7, 2019)

The Triple ran all weekend, but there still must be issues.  They were only loading every other chair.


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## gregnye (Jan 7, 2019)

The summit triple at attitash is an example of why when investing in infrastructure it is essential to spend the extra time planning for the future, even if it is more painful to get the permitting.

Attitash missed their chance for a base to summit high speed lift with the Flying Yankee. Now their lift setup is seriously flawed. Say they went ahead and upgraded the summit lift to a high speed quad. Now you have two high speed lifts on a mountain that has nowhere near the trail capacity to handle crowds. Ammonoosuc and Saco are already icy everytime I go. Same with Moat. 

My recommendation: Scrap both Flying Yankee and Summit and start over. Install one high speed lift for from base to summit on the old triple line. Thats all thats needed. Wildcat gets by with only one lift. And Peaks clearly doesn't want to invest in their New Hampshire properties, so one lift is the way to go.

Also side note: why does everything have to be a 6-person bubble chair recently? I dress for the cold weather so when I go inside a bubble chair or gondola, I start sweating/get way too warm. Also most of the time without a  robust line coordinator, most of the chairs only have 5 people on them anyway. It's hard to coordinate 6 people.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 7, 2019)

Katahdin said:


> The Triple ran all weekend, but there still must be issues.  They were only loading every other chair.


Hopefully they get that sorted out before MLK weekend.  To have issues with the main summit chair accessing the best terrain on the hill two holiday periods in a row is a terrible look.  They risk alienating customers who will look up the road and see that fancy gondola going in at BW.  

A bubble quad to keep up with the competition installed this summer would be a good move.  Hopefully these issues elevate the priority for Peak of replacing the triple over Sunbrook at Mt. Snow. 

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## EPB (Jan 7, 2019)

As someone who grew up skiing at Attitash (and by chance happened to be on the triple when it was evacuated - I don't make it there often anymore), I really hope this is the straw that finally breaks the camel's back for Peak. Attitash had been a low priority for it's ownership groups for 20 years now, and the summit triple has been inadequate for at least that long.

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## machski (Jan 7, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Hopefully they get that sorted out before MLK weekend.  To have issues with the main summit chair accessing the best terrain on the hill two holiday periods in a row is a terrible look.  They risk alienating customers who will look up the road and see that fancy gondola going in at BW.
> 
> A bubble quad to keep up with the competition installed this summer would be a good move.  Hopefully these issues elevate the priority for Peak of replacing the triple over Sunbrook at Mt. Snow.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


First of all, that Fancy Gondola at BW is no where near completed yet.

Second, install a bubble quad to keep up with what competition?  I seriously doubt Attitash competes too much with the So. Vermont areas (they tend to draw from different regions for skiers).  To date, there are zero bubbles in NH, ME or No. Vermont to compete against.  Sunapee got approval for West which in theory swings the current summit HSQ over there and a new Summit 6 goes in.  Before I would have thought Bubble 6 but now that Vail owns it, I seriously doubt it gets a bubble chair.  Katz has been very vocal that he doesn't care for bubble chairs and while Okemo has two, Stowe has none.

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## Newpylong (Jan 7, 2019)

The new summit lift will go where the Triple is, and the Yankee will stay. Another project eventually will be to replace the Double Borvigs. They will replace snowmaking on Wilfreds Gaum to handle additional capacity off top.


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## EPB (Jan 7, 2019)

If the triple can be refurbished, it would make a good double-double replacement. Installing a carpet loading system would be smart, too. Those chairs are ancient and a ride takes a good 10 mins now. 

At the very least, opening Wilfred's early would be necessary to spread out traffic. I have a healthy suspicion that nothing is wrong with the snowmaking on it... Peak would be wise to add a new intermediate run or two off the summit when the triple is replaced. They could potentially run a trail off Saco near the summit that could wind around and connect back to Ammonoosuc.  They could also run one off the elbow of Wilfred's into the Stoney Brook area. 

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## Newpylong (Jan 7, 2019)

I wouldn't have said they are going to replace it if there was nothing wrong with it. There was a big freeze up a few years back and the line is toast, plus it is only 4". They are planning to replace most of the over capacity 4" starting next year.


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## EPB (Jan 7, 2019)

To be clear, I'm not doubting you. Rather, the communication out of Attitash. That's a low priority trail - one of the last to open each year,. It's convenient that a trail they'd likely never want make snow on anyway happened to have a snowmaking problem.

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## deadheadskier (Jan 7, 2019)

machski said:


> First of all, that Fancy Gondola at BW is no where near completed yet.
> 
> Second, install a bubble quad to keep up with what competition?  I seriously doubt Attitash competes too much with the So. Vermont areas (they tend to draw from different regions for skiers).  To date, there are zero bubbles in NH, ME or No. Vermont to compete against.  Sunapee got approval for West which in theory swings the current summit HSQ over there and a new Summit 6 goes in.  Before I would have thought Bubble 6 but now that Vail owns it, I seriously doubt it gets a bubble chair.  Katz has been very vocal that he doesn't care for bubble chairs and while Okemo has two, Stowe has none.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


Mainly referring to competing with Bretton Woods and Cranmore and the quantity of investment in their skiing product vs hardly anything at Attitash outside of snowmaking maintenance.  A Bubble HSQ would be unique in the MWV and something that could be marketed more than a standard HSQ.   I personally would be fine with a standard HSQ. I was more proposing it as a bigger splash.  That's all.

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## thetrailboss (Jan 7, 2019)

gregnye said:


> The summit triple at attitash is an example of why when investing in infrastructure it is essential to spend the extra time planning for the future, even if it is more painful to get the permitting.
> 
> Attitash missed their chance for a base to summit high speed lift with the Flying Yankee. Now their lift setup is seriously flawed. Say they went ahead and upgraded the summit lift to a high speed quad. Now you have two high speed lifts on a mountain that has nowhere near the trail capacity to handle crowds. Ammonoosuc and Saco are already icy everytime I go. Same with Moat.
> 
> ...




True, but my long-term understanding is that it wasn't that simple.  The NFS was going to require the EIS review.  That was something that ASC and now Peaks would not do unless they had to.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Jan 7, 2019)

Put in a tram lol. [emoji38]


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## Smellytele (Jan 8, 2019)

HSDT - High speed detachable triple - I have only seen 1 at Gore but it has since been replaced


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## thetrailboss (Jan 8, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> HSDT - High speed detachable triple - I have only seen 1 at Gore but it has since been replaced



There is one at Alta (Sunnyside) that is slated to be replaced in the near future.  There is also one at Aspen that is used as a double.


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## canobie#1 (Jan 8, 2019)

I'm wondering if Peaks is going to be making some tweaks to their investment plans for the next couples seasons.  Mount Snow has been pretty vocal about a Sunbrook replacement coming very soon.  I'm wondering if Attitash is going to get bumped up in front of them on the list of to-dos.


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## EPB (Jan 8, 2019)

Attitash's afternoon snow report update says the summit triple is down again...

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## Smellytele (Jan 8, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> Attitash's afternoon snow report update says the summit triple is down again...
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



HAHAHA. Glad I wasn't planning on hitting Attitrash this year


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## thetrailboss (Jan 8, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> Attitash's afternoon snow report update says the summit triple is down again...
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz1TjCphXE


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 8, 2019)

Then the unload needs to be before the bullwheel. The local bump up here has the summit unload right after the last tower, and the chairs continue traveling straight forward and then travel around the upper station. Maybe that's a better idea for higher line speeds.


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## EPB (Jan 8, 2019)

Not to get too in the weeds in this, but the double-doubles run at roughly 250 feet per minute these days. The triple is capable of doing 500 and seems to be operated at that speed on weekends. The carpet would be necessary to make it easier for beginners to load if Attitash wanted to run the lift closer to the 500 feet per minute end of the spectrum.

I skied regularly at Greek Peak when I lived in the area for a few years. Their main lift is a fixed quad with a carpet load. It moved quickly for a fixed quad. Issues unloading were minimized by a steep unloading ramp. I didn't notice the lift stopping that often, and the lift was by no means an expert only operation. 

Shawnee Peak installed a carpet load on Loon's old North Peak CTEC triple. I believe they run it at 525 feet per minute and bill it as the fastest triple in the east. I've never been, so I have no idea if it has unloading issues.

I haven't been to Okemo in about 15 years, but they now have loading and unloading carpets on one of their quads out of the base lodge. Maybe SR needs to look into this:

https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsf4-b-quad-poma-6324.html

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## deadheadskier (Jan 8, 2019)

Carpet at Shawnee works great. Appreciable difference in ride time from before. 

Skyline at Sugarloaf also works very well and is a noticeable improvement.  

Moving the triple to the double doubles might be a decent move.  Doesn't seem long enough to warrant a carpet.  If they were to only upgrade the summit triple with a carpet, I'll take up trapping squirrels this summer.   

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## ss20 (Jan 8, 2019)

Okemo had carpets for loading (pretty sure) and unloading (that I am positive on) for one of there base area quads.  The unload carpet has been gone a few seasons now...it was monumentally stupid.  

In my experience, a carpet mitigates load/unload issues minimally and freaks people out more than anything.  Berkshire East has one on their main lift and it has a tendency to stop.  Sugarbush has Valley House with a load carpet and it works fine... I really think it depends on the general ability level of the clientele.  

As far as Attitash Triple vs Sunbrook quad being replaced...both are probably the most over-due lift replacements needed in the East.  Bonnie at Jay a close 3rd.


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## Cheese (Jan 8, 2019)

Couple things to consider about high speed and carpet loaders but might require fact checking as the information I had is outdated and perhaps inaccurate.

Attitash is running the summit lift into the White Mountain National Forest.  I've heard they are restricted on uphill capacity because of this.  Therefore, if they were to put in a high speed lift they'd have to space the chairs far enough apart that the actual number of skiers delivered to the summit wouldn't change.

I've heard that the carpet loaders weren't so much for speeding up the lifts but more about reducing the repetitive stress injuries on the lifties that have to swing the chairs for skiers and riders to load.  Carpets don't require the "swing".


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## So Inclined (Jan 8, 2019)

ss20 said:


> As far as Attitash Triple vs Sunbrook quad being replaced...both are probably the most over-due lift replacements needed in the East.  Bonnie at Jay a close 3rd.



Agreed, both very overdue, but with a somewhat different level of urgency and consequences. If Sunbrook is slow or goes down for a day, Mount Snow goes on. If the summit triple at Attitash is fakakta to the point of being down, like recently - alert, unnecessary hyperbole ahead! - you might as well just hang a "closed today - go ski Bear" sign at the base lodge. The couple times that lift's been out of commission while I'm there, I bounced right over to Bear and stayed there. The Yankee quad's for making quick warm-up runs, not lapping all day. In fact I'd rather lap the Abenaki quad as long as the glades below it are skiing. 
Now if you want to talk about a lift that's slow as dirt...


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## deadheadskier (Jan 8, 2019)

ss20 said:


> As far as Attitash Triple vs Sunbrook quad being replaced...both are probably the most over-due lift replacements needed in the East.  Bonnie at Jay a close 3rd.



Sunday River Barker Quad is the most over-due lift replacement in the East.  The most important lift at what most years is the second busiest place in New England next to Killington.  Severe reliability issues with Barker Quad.   



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## gregnye (Jan 8, 2019)

So Inclined said:


> Agreed, both very overdue, but with a somewhat different level of urgency and consequences. If Sunbrook is slow or goes down for a day, Mount Snow goes on. If the summit triple at Attitash is fakakta to the point of being down, like recently - alert, unnecessary hyperbole ahead! - you might as well just hang a "closed today - go ski Bear" sign at the base lodge. The couple times that lift's been out of commission while I'm there, I bounced right over to Bear and stayed there. The Yankee quad's for making quick warm-up runs, not lapping all day. In fact I'd rather lap the Abenaki quad as long as the glades below it are skiing.
> Now if you want to talk about a lift that's slow as dirt...



While we're talking about dumb/overdue for replacement lift setups--we cannot forget about Waterville's Green Peak Triple chair! I understand they wanted to do the expansion cheaply, but come on now--that thing is so slow. They should have moved the Valley Run quad (or "Quadzilla"--by the way why don't they call it that anymore??)


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## machski (Jan 8, 2019)

Cheese said:


> Couple things to consider about high speed and carpet loaders but might require fact checking as the information I had is outdated and perhaps inaccurate.
> 
> Attitash is running the summit lift into the White Mountain National Forest.  I've heard they are restricted on uphill capacity because of this.  Therefore, if they were to put in a high speed lift they'd have to space the chairs far enough apart that the actual number of skiers delivered to the summit wouldn't change.
> 
> I've heard that the carpet loaders weren't so much for speeding up the lifts but more about reducing the repetitive stress injuries on the lifties that have to swing the chairs for skiers and riders to load.  Carpets don't require the "swing".


So what about the WMNF.  What do you think Wildcat HSQ, Lonn's HSQ's and Gondola or WV's HSQ run into?  I think that arguement is out the window, Peaks has plenty to base an upgrade to the triple and multiple examples of where higher capacity lifts are allowed into the WMNF.

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## sull1102 (Jan 8, 2019)

gregnye said:


> While we're talking about dumb/overdue for replacement lift setups--we cannot forget about Waterville's Green Peak Triple chair! I understand they wanted to do the expansion cheaply, but come on now--that thing is so slow. They should have moved the Valley Run quad (or "Quadzilla"--by the way why don't they call it that anymore??)


WV "new" ownership took off the hat and repainted it green cause they suck and hate fun. Quadzilla was the best when I was a kid.

I think the summit is more important to Attitash as a resort, but the Sunbrook quad is more important to Peak corporate because of how much more important Mount Snow is to the company as a whole. Do you upgrade your minor league team's stadium before you finish refurbing your MLB club's ballpark if you can only afford one? Ideally you could of course afford both at the same time.

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## EPB (Jan 8, 2019)

Re: summit capacity. The excuse I recall from Attitash is that they don't have the downhill capacity to handle a quad (not forest service related unless they claim it's impossible to cut new trails, which seems to be their half baked implication), and the rumor is that the permit from the Les Otten days to upgrade to an HSQ has expired. I never heard about the forest service capping capacity. Remember, there used to be a double (Top Notch) which let off just shy of the summit. It ran every day on the weekends right next to the triple from 1986 to at least 1998 when the Yankee was installed.

Re: loading carpet. I think it would be necessary if the triple replaced the double-doubles because that is a beginner area, and I doubt the clientele could load it at it's spec speed without a lot of wipeouts.

I would also submit the Superquad at SL (reliability), the Sterling double at Smuggs and any borvig lift (half in jest) as lifts on the short list of being most in need of replacement.

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## EPB (Jan 8, 2019)

Re: dull. That's been the logic for the last 15+ years. The problem now is the choice might be between upgrades at the major leagues and no viable minor league park at all. 

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## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2019)

This was a long time ago, but when the Attitash triple replacement was brought up during an AZ challenge in 2004, the mountain claimed there would be terrain expansion to meet added downhill capacity needs.  I wonder what they had in mind at the time.  It would be nice to add a second intermediate trail skiers right of Saco that wraps around down to Ammossuc 

http://www.alpinezone.com/skiing/ch...allenge-2004-sven-cole-of-attitash-bear-peak/


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## Katahdin (Jan 9, 2019)

Latest update from Attitash.  Sounds like an expensive repair.  I wonder how much money has been spent on this lift that could have gone toward a replacement.

*January 8, 2019 - Light at the end of the tunnel*
  As you may have noticed, The Summit Triple was not running today.   We've gone ahead and decided to replace the entire drive of the lift in  order to get to the root of the issue and solve things  once-and-for-all.  While we had originally considered waiting until  after the coming weekend to begin this work, we decided that there is no  time like the present to get this fix going, and so will be diving into  it today.  
  Here is the timeline for the coming week:


Several parts arrived today, with the main drive system scheduled to arrive from Salt Lake City tomorrow morning. 
Wednesday morning, a technician from SkyTrac Lifts,  along with our lift mechanic team here at Attitash and several  technicians from some of our sister resorts, will get to work installing  this new drive system, which is scheduled to take two days and finish  up on Thursday. 
Once the work has been completed, we will begin load testing the  new lift under the supervision of the New Hampshire Tramway Board.  This  process is slated to take place on Friday and if everything goes right,  we plan on having the lift spinning for the coming weekend.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 9, 2019)

Yikes! I guess they finally got sick and tired of putting lipstick on the pig...

All of this work probably shows that they will stick with (or be stuck with) the triple no matter what replacement comes. Thinking of the cheapest way out, is there anything at Saddleback that could be salvaged and transported over? 

There is that abandoned gondola from Mount Whittier in Ossipee..... Sure it has the limited capacity they are looking for LOL


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 9, 2019)

Katahdin said:


> Latest update from Attitash.  Sounds like an expensive repair.  I wonder how much money has been spent on this lift that could have gone toward a replacement.
> 
> *January 8, 2019 - Light at the end of the tunnel*
> As you may have noticed, The Summit Triple was not running today.   We've gone ahead and decided to replace the entire drive of the lift in  order to get to the root of the issue and solve things  once-and-for-all.  While we had originally considered waiting until  after the coming weekend to begin this work, we decided that there is no  time like the present to get this fix going, and so will be diving into  it today.
> ...



Didn't they just replace the drive this summer? Hope they got the extended warranty!


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## EPB (Jan 9, 2019)

I wonder if a big insurance claim is on the horizon for at least the repair and perhaps loss of business over the holidays.

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## Dickc (Jan 9, 2019)

machski said:


> So what about the WMNF.  What do you think Wildcat HSQ, Lonn's HSQ's and Gondola or WV's HSQ run into?  I think that arguement is out the window, Peaks has plenty to base an upgrade to the triple and multiple examples of where higher capacity lifts are allowed into the WMNF.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


Remember that they just removed the old Top Notch Double.  This reduced the uphill capacity so a HSQ would only restore SOME of that.


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## EPB (Jan 9, 2019)

Adding the capacity of the two lifts together. (950 people per hour for the double and 1500 for the triple), you get 2450 PPH, which is in the range for a high speed quad (2,400-2,800). These lifts spun every weekend from 1986/87 to 1998/99 in a time when there was no bear peak until 1994/1995) and no Flying Yankee. I was young at the time so but remember them running at full capacity on a routine basis. Given the lack of other options, it must have been that way. That said, the Yankee puts a lot of people on the mid mountain and another trail or two of the summit area would be prudent.

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## gregnye (Jan 9, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Sunday River Barker Quad is the most over-due lift replacement in the East.  The most important lift at what most years is the second busiest place in New England next to Killington.  Severe reliability issues with Barker Quad.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app




Never been to Sunday River (it's on my list to get to), but from pictures it seems like the Barker lift is a similar model to Killington's Superstar chair, which also has very long operational hours (October--May). Anyone know what makes Barker so unreliable and Superstar ok? Maybe Sunday river needs to ask Killington about a good maintenance procedure for those retrofitted Yan lifts.


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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 9, 2019)

On a side note, anyone ever ski the line that was cut for the monorail on Attitash Mt. in the 60's? looks pretty gnarly and steep from google earth


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## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2019)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> On a side note, anyone ever ski the line that was cut for the monorail on Attitash Mt. in the 60's? looks pretty gnarly and steep from google earth


I recall reading about that. Care to share a snapshot from Google Earth?

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## benski (Jan 9, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> Adding the capacity of the two lifts together. (950 people per hour for the double and 1500 for the triple), you get 2450 PPH, which is in the range for a high speed quad (2,400-2,800). These lifts spun every weekend from 1986/87 to 1998/99 in a time when there was no bear peak until 1994/1995) and no Flying Yankee.
> [\QUOTE]
> 
> I think 2,800 for a quad is really pushing it. That’s only 5 seconds between each chair. I think 6-9 is much more common. I have heard of a few 6 packs in that range. I have heard 2400 for the hunter 6 packs, bluebird and killington 6 pack.


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## EPB (Jan 10, 2019)

There is plenty of leeway regarding capacity when you take chair spacing into account. I have the type of career that makes me anal about providing accurate numbers, so if I throw out a statistic that doesn't pass the sniff test, it's probably a typo. This site below hasn't been updated in years, but it provides the specs on lift installations from the 60s through 2009. Capacity is one of the specs it tracks. You can see that several HSQs are spec-ed for 2800 if you scroll though enough pages.

As a disclaimer, that doesn't mean they all actually run at spec capacity on the flying bear at Attitash, for example, has 82 chairs. If you do the math, its functional capacity is 1800 (on par with a fixed triple at my max capacity).

http://www.skilifts.org/old/install_na.htm

Several old Yan HSQs like the Sunday River Express were designed to carry 3000 PPH. If you ever rode it in the 90s or earlier, you'd probably understand how that was possible and why they aren't designed that way anymore.

Larger lifts seem to hit diminishing returns on capacity because chair spacing needs to be wider. I haven't done an exhaustive study, but 6 pack capacity seems to max out at 3600 PPH and Doppelmayr's brochure on high speed lifts advertises max capacity of high speed lifts (presumably 8 packs) at 4000 PPH. Remontees Mechaniques and liftblog have more good info, but the former is in French, so beware if French isn't your thing.

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## Smellytele (Jan 10, 2019)

uphillklimber said:


> This?
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...493cf53da4ffce!8m2!3d44.0738899!4d-71.2342866
> 
> ...



I can't tell where the line is on those.


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## EPB (Jan 10, 2019)

Are you sure you're not referring to the section of the power line that was cut between Tim's and the Top Notch? I thought the monorail follows modern day straight shot up to Saco, but I could be wrong.

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## Katahdin (Jan 10, 2019)

The monorail line still exists as Straight Shot.  It cuts diagonally across the slope and isn't very steep.  The portion above Idiots Option is nearly flat.  The mountain coaster is on the lower portion which was once the trail Hunky Dory.


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## EPB (Jan 10, 2019)

Thanks for finding that.... There is a power line that starts above the old Top Notch. It crosses Saco and goes out of bounds. It comes back in bounds near Tim's and takes a steep path to Homeward Bound. It then crosses Cathedral and shoots down to the base area next to Grandstand. That's probably what you all are referencing.

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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 10, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> Thanks for finding that.... There is a power line that starts above the old Top Notch. It crosses Saco and goes out of bounds. It comes back in bounds near Tim's and takes a steep path to Homeward Bound. It then crosses Cathedral and shoots down to the base area next to Grandstand. That's probably what you all are referencing.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app









It looks like it may have grown in as per the most recent google image shot.


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## machski (Jan 10, 2019)

gregnye said:


> Never been to Sunday River (it's on my list to get to), but from pictures it seems like the Barker lift is a similar model to Killington's Superstar chair, which also has very long operational hours (October--May). Anyone know what makes Barker so unreliable and Superstar ok? Maybe Sunday river needs to ask Killington about a good maintenance procedure for those retrofitted Yan lifts.


The other thing between K (Superstar) and SR Barker is that while these two lifts were recovered with new terminal skins and got Poma chairs, the guts of the terminal and drive are still mostly Yan.  Killington has three other of these Yan/Poma hybrid chairs (Snowshed and both Pico HSQ's) so their calculus may be a bit different in terms of pre-fabricating parts and keeping them on hand.  They have to maintain 4 of these lifts after all, which means they will likely need the parts faster than SR does just maintaining one.  

To note, the only other Yan-Poma hybrid in the east is the Grand Summit at Snow.

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## Katahdin (Jan 10, 2019)

Good find on the older aerial photos GregoryIsaacs.  That’s the overhead utility lines to the cell tower near the summit that eastern powder was referring to.


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## gregnye (Jan 11, 2019)

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but wow--they now have quite the blog devoted to this lift's failures:

https://www.attitash.com/blog/lifts/summit/

When you have to have a blog devoted to all the problems with your lift, chances are its time to stop half-fixing it and just remove it and start over.

By the way, I miss the top notch double. When running I always took that over the summit because it always seemed faster (not entirely true if it was faster though).


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## EPB (Jan 11, 2019)

Same speed on the line, but it was a good deal shorter - roughly a 4800 foot ride vs a 6200 foot ride for the triple. With Wilfred's rarely open, there was little benefit to taking the triple once they fired up the old Hall.

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## thetrailboss (Jan 11, 2019)

gregnye said:


> Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but wow--they now have quite the blog devoted to this lift's failures:
> 
> https://www.attitash.com/blog/lifts/summit/
> 
> ...



And it is also quite odd that the "latest" trail map on their site shows the Top Notch Double.  I am pretty sure that is gone.  Peaks can't even update their trail map to remove the line for a lift that is gone?

https://www.attitash.com/uploaded/site images/attitashtrailmap1516.pdf


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## Katahdin (Jan 11, 2019)

The lift has only been partially removed.  The base station, rope, and chairs are gone.  The towers with sheaves and top station are still in place.  I guess that still counts as a lift.


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## gregnye (Jan 11, 2019)

Katahdin said:


> The lift has only been partially removed.  The base station, rope, and chairs are gone.  The towers with sheaves and top station are still in place.  I guess that still counts as a lift.



By Attitash standards--yes, it's still a lift
By Killington standards---No, but it's a bar!!  :grin:


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## thetrailboss (Jan 11, 2019)

gregnye said:


> By Attitash standards--yes, it's still a lift
> By Killington standards---No, but it's a bar!!  :grin:



:lol:  

Yeah, I was reminded a few weeks ago about Devil's Fiddle.  That is just weird.  It would be one thing if they fixed up the terminal, but from what I have seen they haven't even done that.  You can pay for the privilege of having a drink in a rusted and derelict chair lift terminal.


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## ss20 (Jan 11, 2019)

machski said:


> The other thing between K (Superstar) and SR Barker is that while these two lifts were recovered with new terminal skins and got Poma chairs, the guts of the terminal and drive are still mostly Yan.  Killington has three other of these Yan/Poma hybrid chairs (Snowshed and both Pico HSQ's) so their calculus may be a bit different in terms of pre-fabricating parts and keeping them on hand.  They have to maintain 4 of these lifts after all, which means they will likely need the parts faster than SR does just maintaining one.
> 
> To note, the only other Yan-Poma hybrid in the east is the Grand Summit at Snow.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



I'm not so sure about that...I'm not positive but I had heard that the only Yan parts on all those lifts are things that don't generate power/movement (towers, footings, terminal structure, etc.)  The primary components are Poma... motor, gearbox, electrical.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jan 12, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> :lol:
> 
> Yeah, I was reminded a few weeks ago about Devil's Fiddle.  That is just weird.  It would be one thing if they fixed up the terminal, but from what I have seen they haven't even done that.  You can pay for the privilege of having a drink in a rusted and derelict chair lift terminal.



There must be a good reason for that, perhaps Act250 wise, it would be replacing an "existing" lift, vs. a "new install" if they ever decided they wanted something else there. Probably the same idea with the USFS.


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## gregnye (Jan 12, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> There must be a good reason for that, perhaps Act250 wise, it would be replacing an "existing" lift, vs. a "new install" if they ever decided they wanted something else there. Probably the same idea with the USFS.



Everyone keeps saying this, but realistically why would K ever need the Devil's Fiddle chair again? Even if they open the abandoned part of sunrise people would just ski over the sky peak express or the Bear Quad. I think K just is lazy. What I would do it remove all the towers except for the Motor Room Bar. That way at least it doesn't look like a junkyard and the bar idea can stay because it's cool.


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## EPB (Jan 12, 2019)

If the incumbency theory is true, taking the towers down would be throwing away a free option (at the cost of removing the towers to boot). 

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## ss20 (Jan 13, 2019)

Many times it has been asked "why don't they at least clean up and take down the towers?  Please explain to me a safe, cheap option to remove said towers next to what is one of the steepest, rockiest trails in the East?  There's no work road, and the liftline, even when it was cleared when the lift ran, was not wide enough to get a vehicle through. 

What do you want them to do?  Fly out the towers with a heli?  Let 'em rot away in peace.

There is no reason for a chair there.


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## Smellytele (Jan 13, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Many times it has been asked "why don't they at least clean up and take down the towers?  Please explain to me a safe, cheap option to remove said towers next to what is one of the steepest, rockiest trails in the East?  There's no work road, and the liftline, even when it was cleared when the lift ran, was not wide enough to get a vehicle through.
> 
> What do you want them to do?  Fly out the towers with a heli?  Let 'em rot away in peace.
> 
> There is no reason for a chair there.



when you have an old decrepit triple, an old decrepit double would help.


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## machski (Jan 14, 2019)

ss20 said:


> I'm not so sure about that...I'm not positive but I had heard that the only Yan parts on all those lifts are things that don't generate power/movement (towers, footings, terminal structure, etc.)  The primary components are Poma... motor, gearbox, electrical.


Well, yes, most of that has been upgraded, though not 100% certain on the drive itself..  But the hydraulic tension system is still Yan (and still requires power to function) along with the transmission.  I know several key components that have failed at Barker, the GM asked his lift ops manager to pull it off of South Ridge and the answer was, no can do, Yan part not Poma.

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## prsboogie (Jan 14, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> The new summit lift will go where the Triple is, and the Yankee will stay. Another project eventually will be to replace the Double Borvigs. They will replace snowmaking on Wilfreds Gaum to handle additional capacity off top.


Would love to see this happen, and soon!

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## Cheese (Jan 15, 2019)

So, now that it's up and running, who's going to ride it this weekend for some powder turns down Ptarmigan, Idiots Option and Tim's Trauma?


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## Katahdin (Feb 25, 2019)

Summit triple problems continue.  The lift was down again all weekend with no time frame for its repair.  Resulting lift queues at Bear Peak on Saturday were the longest I've even seen.  There was even a substantial wait at the Abenaki Quad.  

Blog from Attitash:
https://www.attitash.com/blog/lifts-/new-blog-61/


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## prsboogie (Feb 25, 2019)

Katahdin said:


> Summit triple problems continue.  The lift was down again all weekend with no time frame for its repair.  Resulting lift queues at Bear Peak on Saturday were the longest I've even seen.  There was even a substantial wait at the Abenaki Quad.
> 
> Blog from Attitash:
> https://www.attitash.com/blog/lifts-/new-blog-61/


It's disgusting they continue to flog their patrons with that hunk of shit lift. I was there as well and conditions were very good until 1 when everything was skied off except the very edges of the trails.

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## GregoryIsaacs (Feb 25, 2019)

After skiing there this past super bowl weekend, I really dont get the amount of hate that this lift gets. There really aren't many options off the top and a HSQ would surely turn that area into long john 2.0 but with steeper terrain and even less space. 

Unless they cut new trails off the summit, there really isnt a point to replace when it serves its purpose adequately. That being said, there has to be a point where the continued repairs just dont add up and a replacement will be necessary to keep customers. I feel like a new un-detachable triple just wouldnt have the marketing bang they would be hoping for


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## Newpylong (Feb 25, 2019)

With repaired snowmaking on Wilfred's the upper mountain can handle a HSQ with properly spaced out carriers to control capacity. To me the ride time is the biggest issue, outside of obvious recent reliability concerns.


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## xlr8r (Feb 25, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> With repaired snowmaking on Wildred's the upper mountain can handle a HSQ with properly spaced out carriers to control capacity. To me the ride time is the biggest issue, outside of obvious recent reliability concerns.



Exactly, just build a HSQ with very wide chair spacing, give it less capacity even than the current triple.  People all the time think a new new HSQ means more capacity, it does not.   Also it would be an easy adjustment to then add more chairs on the lift to increase capacity in the future if Attitash ever cuts more trails off the summit.


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## Katahdin (Mar 1, 2019)

Another weekend coming without the Summit Triple.  They are in the process removing the bullwheel.   I think this will be the 6th weekend without the lift already this season.  

Looks like they already have plenty of excuses why the lift won't be replaced.  From John Lowell in the Conway Daily Sun article:
Asked if there are plans to replace the Summit Triple with a  high-speed detachable lift, given the CTEC’s slowness even when it is  running properly, Lowell said replacement has been discussed for many  years but that ultimately it is a decision Peak Resorts of Wildwood, Mo.  — owner of Attitash and Wildcat, among many other ski areas — will make  one way or the other.  “There’s nothing concrete on the table  right now to replace that lift … There are two major lift companies  still in existence (Poma and Doppelmayr) and both are backed up in  manufacturing,” Lowell said.  He  said there is probably a two-year wait for lifts right now. “So, even  if that were a decision, it couldn’t possibly happen for next season,”  he said.

https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news...cle_44061e84-3af2-11e9-a703-7715ccd6d2c6.html


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## gregnye (Mar 1, 2019)

Katahdin said:


> Another weekend coming without the Summit Triple.  They are in the process removing the bullwheel.   I think this will be the 6th weekend without the lift already this season.



Ok so new bullwheel, new electronics, new drive motor? Can someone make a list of the stuff they haven't replaced yet? Because it seems like they have more new stuff retrofitted on there than original equipment.

Peaks is unbelievably cheap when it comes to NH. Even putting a loading carpet to speed up the ride time would be something. At this point the Top Notch double was faster and more reliable! Should have kept that lift!

So it's 2019, Attitash still has a 15 minute lift ride thats over a mile long. Wildcat still has rusty water thats undrinkable. But it's ok though, because Hunter just installed their second 6 person lift to please people from New York City---that can't even handle the steepness of the new terrain.:roll:

/End rant


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## thetrailboss (Mar 2, 2019)

Stick a fork in it....

https://www.attitash.com/blog/lifts-/new-blog-61/


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## Vaughn (Mar 3, 2019)

I like this phrase: 

"Obviously some piece failed way before the end of its usable life, and we’re going to be interested to figure out how and why it did to prevent this from happening on this lift, as well as other lifts by this manufacturer." 

Yes, I'd be pretty interested if a crucial asset failed after only 5 years of service during the very narrow window to make money off of it. And I'd be interested to know how interested my lawyers could get about it. 

I wonder what the net change in ski lifts running in New England over the past 10 years is. Magic re-opened, Ascutney closed, small places like Granite Gorge closed, Haystack is, well TBD. Tenney kind of reopened. How many areas have gotten actual new lifts vs. just shuffling around the same tired inventory?


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## Newpylong (Mar 3, 2019)

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/


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## thetrailboss (Mar 3, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/



Ok. So what exactly?


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## Newpylong (Mar 3, 2019)

In reply to the the post directly prior to mine.


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## Vaughn (Mar 3, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/



So more or less lifts? 

I don't ski a huge range of areas - western Whites, Wa-Wachusett,... Of those, the new gondola at Bretton is I think the only recent addition in the past decade? Much like our nation's inventory of bridges, I worry that a lot ski areas are coasting along on old lifts without any good capital investment plans to replacement them before they fail.


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## crystalmountainskier (Mar 3, 2019)

According to my Lift Blog database:
2019: 357 operating lift in New England
2009: 373
1999: 374


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## Vaughn (Mar 3, 2019)

crystalmountainskier said:


> According to my Lift Blog database:
> 2019: 357 operating lift in New England
> 2009: 373
> 1999: 374



Interesting but any idea on capacity? Some of that is small, slow stuff like Granite Gorge, Blanford, etc... closing I'd assume.


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## Clemson (Mar 6, 2019)

I was there for the MLK weekend Sunday Blizzard, and it was incredible with working lifts, but during Presidents day weekend it was down and I was at Wildcat which got flooded with those taking advantage of the dual use pass. It was so crowded  that I had my first ever slope rage. Some guy went off on me, chased me down the slope screaming, ran over my son's skis and almost knocked me off the trail. He also stole me ski. Well I think it must have been him.


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## skiur (Mar 6, 2019)

Clemson said:


> I was there for the MLK weekend Sunday Blizzard, and it was incredible with working lifts, but during Presidents day weekend it was down and I was at Wildcat which got flooded with those taking advantage of the dual use pass. It was so crowded  that I had my first ever slope rage. Some guy went off on me, chased me down the slope screaming, ran over my son's skis and almost knocked me off the trail. He also stole me ski. Well I think it must have been him.



Fuck with me and I will ignore you, your not worth it. Fuck with my kid and you are going to get punched in the face.


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## prsboogie (Mar 6, 2019)

Clemson said:


> I was there for the MLK weekend Sunday Blizzard, and it was incredible with working lifts, but during Presidents day weekend it was down and I was at Wildcat which got flooded with those taking advantage of the dual use pass. It was so crowded  that I had my first ever slope rage. Some guy went off on me, chased me down the slope screaming, ran over my son's skis and almost knocked me off the trail. He also stole me ski. Well I think it must have been him.


You sure you weren't at Stratton. Had a similar situation there except the douche knocked my at the time 6 yo daughter over and proceeds to scream at her for turning in his way. Mind you he was UP HILL!! The kids were the only reason I didn't lay him out.

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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2019)

Clemson said:


> I was there for the MLK weekend Sunday Blizzard, and it was incredible with working lifts, but during Presidents day weekend it was down and I was at Wildcat which got flooded with those taking advantage of the dual use pass. It was so crowded  that I had my first ever slope rage. Some guy went off on me, chased me down the slope screaming, ran over my son's skis and almost knocked me off the trail. He also stole me ski. Well I think it must have been him.



Why did he chase you? Or what did he think was the reason?


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## So Inclined (Mar 14, 2019)

Oooof.

"It is my unfortunate duty to inform you all that despite the best efforts of our lift mechanic team here at Attitash – as well as that of outside specialists – we will be unable to reopen the Summit Triple for the remainder of the 2018/2019 season."

It's not exactly a shock, given how things have gone with it this winter, but still.


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## AdironRider (Mar 14, 2019)

skiur said:


> Fuck with me and I will ignore you, your not worth it. Fuck with my kid and you are going to get punched in the face.



You won't do that because you aren't stupid enough to go to jail. Or at least hopefully. 

Running over a ski does not warrant assault internet tough guy.


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## Newpylong (Mar 14, 2019)

If I was a 'Tash regular I would be livid at the prospect of no new lift. Outside of replacing pipe and building the mid mountain pumphouse (because the old pipe and pumps were toast) at Wildcat and the fan guns back in 2007 at Attitash Peaks has not done a thing for either hill outside of maintenance. Meanwhile the two cash cows to the south are soaking it in. You can read the frustration in the wording.


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## Jully (Mar 14, 2019)

So Inclined said:


> Oooof.
> 
> "It is my unfortunate duty to inform you all that despite the best efforts of our lift mechanic team here at Attitash – as well as that of outside specialists – we will be unable to reopen the Summit Triple for the remainder of the 2018/2019 season."
> 
> It's not exactly a shock, given how things have gone with it this winter, but still.



Confirmed the obvious too - no replacement lift for 2019-2020 and no real plans for one in the near term as they "rebuilt 2/3rds" of the lift.


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## Jully (Mar 14, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> If I was a 'Tash regular I would be livid at the prospect of no new lift. Outside of replacing pipe and building the mid mountain pumphouse (because the old pipe and pumps were toast) at Wildcat and the fan guns back in 2007 at Attitash Peaks has not done a thing for either hill outside of maintenance. Meanwhile the two cash cows to the south are soaking it in. You can read the frustration in the wording.



I really do appreciate the clearly frustrated on behalf of Attitash management. I wonder if this will impact Peak's bottom line this year. Attitash has real estate and gets a good chunk of skiers and I bet there is a good bunch of folks in CMass that split time at Attitash and Snow.


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## drjeff (Mar 14, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> If I was a 'Tash regular I would be livid at the prospect of no new lift. Outside of replacing pipe and building the mid mountain pumphouse (because the old pipe and pumps were toast) at Wildcat and the fan guns back in 2007 at Attitash Peaks has not done a thing for either hill outside of maintenance. Meanwhile the two cash cows to the south are soaking it in. You can read the frustration in the wording.


From an ops side, even with say a HSQ to replace the triple at Attitash, REALISTICALLY, how many additional annual visits to you think that would translate into over say a 5yr period?

Do I personally think it would be a great thing? Yup. Do I think it would translate into say an extra 50k or so annual visits to Attitash over a 5yr period? Nope

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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2019)

drjeff said:


> From an ops side, even with say a HSQ to replace the triple at Attitash, REALISTICALLY, how many additional annual visits to you think that would translate into over say a 5yr period?
> 
> Do I personally think it would be a great thing? Yup. Do I think it would translate into say an extra 50k or so annual visits to Attitash over a 5yr period? Nope
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


It's not all about the skier visits gained, but skier visits lost as well.   Look at their skier visits pre-Peak.  They were averaging around 200k visits a year at Attitash from when Bear went in until about 2008.  Since?  More like 160k.

Now some of that could be attributed to cheap ASC passes, but the Peak pass is still very affordable today. Also in that time frame numerous NH areas have invested heavily with expanded terrain, better lifts, snowmaking etc.  Sunapee, Ragged, Loon, Waterville, Cannon, Bretton Woods, Cranmore all have invested heavily in expanding and/or improving their product. Attitash has done essentially nothing but routine maintenance.  

So, a new HSQ might not add 50k visits a year, but it could be the difference between a 180k average and a 130k average.  

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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 14, 2019)

ive never skied attitash before and have never even looked at a trail map until right now. is the notch between the two peaks skiable sidecountry?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ive never skied attitash before and have never even looked at a trail map until right now. is the notch between the two peaks skiable sidecountry?


There's a pretty killer riverbed out there that I haven't skied, but have seen videos of. Comes off the Attitash side.  Not sure about Bear side.  Haven't done a ton of exploring really nor have I noticed where others have. Pretty dense evergreen forest.

Generally speaking, Attitash has some really good steep groomer skiing and a couple of decent bump runs. 

They don't get a ton of snow due to low elevation.   

I mainly ski Wildcat.  Attitash is pretty much reserved for hard snow days or spring when it's sunny, 40+ degrees and soft bumps and Cat only 10 miles away is socked in the clouds, 25 degrees and frozen solid. 

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## ss20 (Mar 14, 2019)

Attitash is one of the few places in NH I have not skied...but a HSQ to the summit would make it much more enticing.  New Hampshire is interesting for New England as places have grown in size over the past 20 years (Loon with South Peak, Bretton Woods with their sidecountry T-Bar, Cannon with Mittersill).  Other places have at least seen significant lift upgrades like Sunapee, Ragged.  Attitash has remained stagnant.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2019)

So Inclined said:


> Oooof.
> 
> "It is my unfortunate duty to inform you all that despite the best efforts of our lift mechanic team here at Attitash – as well as that of outside specialists – we will be unable to reopen the Summit Triple for the remainder of the 2018/2019 season."
> 
> It's not exactly a shock, given how things have gone with it this winter, but still.



Wow. Just wow.  That’s sad. Not surprising considering that the pic on liftblog.com showed a huge crane in place by the lift. Get a new one. 


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> If I was a 'Tash regular I would be livid at the prospect of no new lift. Outside of replacing pipe and building the mid mountain pumphouse (because the old pipe and pumps were toast) at Wildcat and the fan guns back in 2007 at Attitash Peaks has not done a thing for either hill outside of maintenance. Meanwhile the two cash cows to the south are soaking it in. You can read the frustration in the wording.



Agreed.

Just read that blog post and I have no doubt that Attitash will see a big loss of passholders based on that post and news.  Sounds like Peaks is just throwing good money after bad on this lift and are really digging themselves into a hole with their passholders.  It's too bad because as a kid growing up in the 1980's and 1990's, Attitash was THE PLACE in the MWV and did pretty well in terms of improvements by ASC and previous ownership.  I think it is fair to say that pretty much everyone in that area (except Black Mountain) has probably passed Attitash in terms of upgrades and improvements.  I think this also takes the prize for biggest lift F-up this season although Waterville Valley will likely be a close second!

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## skiur (Mar 15, 2019)

AdironRider said:


> You won't do that because you aren't stupid enough to go to jail. Or at least hopefully.
> 
> Running over a ski does not warrant assault internet tough guy.



So come and fuck with my kid then.  If you are purposely running over my kids ski you are close enough to him that you could hurt him.  This is after chasing us down the trail and cursing at us.  I would have to think that you do not have children.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2019)

Bump.  

For those wondering what is going on with Attitash's Summit Triple:



> "We will resume work on the repairs immediately after Labor Day when the summer crowds disperse," Lowell said Monday. "It would be unsafe to have work going on now while we have attractions and families wandering near the work areas. The rebuilt pieces will be delivered the last week of August so we can begin to get organized with heavy equipment to place the pieces back into the motor room and raise the bull wheel.
> 
> "Everything is going as planned, and I am confident the summit triple will be ready for the start of the upcoming season. We have also done a near-complete rebuild of the Flying Yankee this spring. We are installing a new drive in the Abenaki lift and have done extensive work on the Flying Bear. Our lift maintenance staff have been working extremely hard this spring and summer and will continue to do whatever prudent to make our lifts reliable and safe for this season and seasons to come."



https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news...cle_b9f5c9c0-acb5-11e9-a347-3b3870d0c67e.html


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## MEtoVTSkier (Jul 27, 2019)

They threw way too much money away on that lift...


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## EPB (Jul 27, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> They threw way too much money away on that lift...


It should have been replaced years ago. Hopefully, Vail won't get bogged down in a sunk cost analysis and just replace it next year. I read a while back on liftblog that Vail usually announces new projects in the Feb-Mar range. Hopefully, they announce then that they will replace the triple. 

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## deadheadskier (Jul 27, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> It should have been replaced years ago. Hopefully, Vail won't get bogged down in a sunk cost analysis and just replace it next year. I read a while back on liftblog that Vail usually announces new projects in the Feb-Mar range. Hopefully, they announce then that they will replace the triple.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


Years ago when Greg used to do the AZ challenge, someone from Attitash (pre-peaks days) said a HSQ and a couple more trails to handle the additional trail traffic was on the road map.  Hopefully those drawings are still somewhere in a closet and someone hands them to Vail management. 

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## thetrailboss (Jul 27, 2019)

As said, Attitash hasn't seen any major updates since ASC in the late 1990's.  That is a long time.

I recall Attitash ALWAYS being busy when I drove by.  I would think that any improvements would help to re-establish their brand.  The MWV is a great place.


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## EPB (Jul 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Years ago when Greg used to do the AZ challenge, someone from Attitash (pre-peaks days) said a HSQ and a couple more trails to handle the additional trail traffic was on the road map.  Hopefully those drawings are still somewhere in a closet and someone hands them to Vail management.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


To echo you and TB, this would be a huge boon for Attitash. As someone who grew up skiing there and tries to get back a couple times a year, I think Vail ownership is likely to be a huge win for MWV area. Spending the $$$ to get Attitash into the 21st century is a drop in the bucket for Vail and would go a long way towards improving the skier experience. A high speed lift and a few extra trails should help handle the added Vail traffic adequately - it's not like the place is already jammed up like a Sunapee or Hunter.

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## Newpylong (Jul 27, 2019)

On top of the triple (which is mindboggling as it is), they ran all last season down a pump at Bear and down two compressors (for both mountains). One compressor has been down for years, and the other within the past year. Instead of repairing it with the insurance money received they decided to buy more guns with the payout. These are all corporate decisions.

Assuming no new trails with a HSQ, local management wants to at least replace the snowmaking on Wilfred's which has been not operational in years. Word is a certain Peak's Operations Manager either couldn't get it working or froze the line and threw a hissy fit. ince then it's been disconnected. The water lines does a 180 at the top of the CTEC instead of continuing over to the valve station, making reconnection pretty tough.

Not many folks over there shedding tears to see Peaks go.


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## jg17 (Jul 27, 2019)

Hopefully the new management makes a replacement happen, and soon. It would be great to see them get in for next year's construction season.

That said, they've put a lot of money into this left, and an '88 CTEC has some value. I wouldn't be surprised to see the lift live on elsewhere if replaced in the next few years. Wildcat comes to mind where there are some older Riblets and they're already familiar with this model. Otherwise, there's plenty of other mountains in the newly expanded Vail portfolio (or many other mountains in general) that would gladly take a CTEC with a newly upgraded drive terminal.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 27, 2019)

Replace Bobcat at Cat with the triple and put in a conveyor.  Would be a nicer ride for the racers and intermediates that use that pod. 

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## EPB (Jul 27, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Replace Bobcat at Cat with the triple and put in a conveyor.  Would be a nicer ride for the racers and intermediates that use that pod.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


That would be a big help over there. 

I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to see the triple replaced by a six pack with a mid station just above where the Yankee ends (to serve all the terrain covered by the Yankee). That way, the Yankee could replace the double-doubles, which also really need to be replaced.

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## sull1102 (Jul 27, 2019)

Seems too easy, but I would argue that Attitash was by far the most mismanaged property of all the Peak Resorts. At least they really cared about Crotched in the beginning. Attitash seemed like an "oh yeah, we still own that place?" type of situation for Peak. It's sad because it could have been second to Mount Snow on the totem pole thanks to the big summer business and MWV instead of what it became.

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## EPB (Jul 27, 2019)

sull1102 said:


> Seems too easy, but I would argue that Attitash was by far the most mismanaged property of all the Peak Resorts. At least they really cared about Crotched in the beginning. Attitash seemed like an "oh yeah, we still own that place?" type of situation for Peak. It's sad because it could have been second to Mount Snow on the totem pole thanks to the big summer business and MWV instead of what it became.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app


It has felt like an afterthought going back to the later ASC days. Really ever since they stopped short of replacing the triple after installing the flying yankee.

On a somewhat related note, it would be great to see Vail build a summit lodge at Wildcat. I understand Peak agreed to let the summit area grow in, but there's probably a way to pull it off if Vail wanted to pull it off.

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## thebigo (Jul 28, 2019)

Everyone talks about the attitash triple, first priorities need to be the water at wildcat and roof on bear lodge. Either tear the bear lodge down or fix the damn roof, nobody should be working in that mold infested sieve and give the people at wildcat some water that is actually drinkable.

Next priority for vail in nh needs to be a true beginner trail off the summit at the crotch.


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## EPB (Jul 28, 2019)

thebigo said:


> Everyone talks about the attitash triple, first priorities need to be the water at wildcat and roof on bear lodge. Either tear the bear lodge down or fix the damn roof, nobody should be working in that mold infested sieve and give the people at wildcat some water that is actually drinkable.
> 
> Next priority for vail in nh needs to be a true beginner trail off the summit at the crotch.


I think the Bear Peak lodge will be on the short list if the crowds improve. You think there's actually a fix to the water situation at the kitty? I figure a water bottle filtration system would do the trick (and something similar for the bar).

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## deadheadskier (Jul 28, 2019)

Bear roof is being fixed this summer.  

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## machski (Jul 28, 2019)

I'm still waiting to see Vail spend any significant money in the East.  They have not to date with Stowe/Okemo/Sunapee.  $15million the next 2 years across 17 areas doesn't have enough for lifts.  Hopefully Attitash is included in their spring lift announcements.

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## EPB (Jul 28, 2019)

machski said:


> I'm still waiting to see Vail spend any significant money in the East.  They have not to date with Stowe/Okemo/Sunapee.  $15million the next 2 years across 17 areas doesn't have enough for lifts.  Hopefully Attitash is included in their spring lift announcements.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


What's the status of the expansion at Sunapee? That seemed like the only major potential need between the three areas (I am totally ignorant to Okemo in full disclosure). I also wonder if acquiring Crotched will quell the need to expand Sunapee in Vail's eyes.

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## machski (Jul 28, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> What's the status of the expansion at Sunapee? That seemed like the only major potential need between the three areas (I am totally ignorant to Okemo in full disclosure). I also wonder if acquiring Crotched will quell the need to expand Sunapee in Vail's eyes.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


They had moved some of the plans along but nothing imminent to my knowledge at Sunapee.  I feel like Stowe Mansfield side could use some lift modernization, especially considering Vail considers it a top tier offering.

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## EPB (Jul 28, 2019)

machski said:


> They had moved some of the plans along but nothing imminent to my knowledge at Sunapee.  I feel like Stowe Mansfield side could use some lift modernization, especially considering Vail considers it a top tier offering.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


Yeah I would have expected either a Toll House parking expansion and lift update or some rework of the capacity between the 4runner and that triple. Not gonna happen until at least next summer now.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thetrailboss (Jul 28, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> What's the status of the expansion at Sunapee? That seemed like the only major potential need between the three areas (I am totally ignorant to Okemo in full disclosure). I also wonder if acquiring Crotched will quell the need to expand Sunapee in Vail's eyes.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



Speaking of Crotched and Sunapee, could you imagine being Pats Peak and waking up last week to see that your two closest competitors are now owned by Vail?


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## chuckstah (Jul 28, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Speaking of Crotched and Sunapee, could you imagine being Pats Peak and waking up last week to see that your two closest competitors are now owned by Vail?


Pat's may get a nice boost in business from those not interested in Epic, but only time will tell. I have a full season to decide, as I live right near the triangle of the 3, and I'm Epic this season, like it or not. All options will be considered next year. 

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## EPB (Jul 28, 2019)

chuckstah said:


> Pat's may get a nice boost in business from those not interested in Epic, but only time will tell. I have a full season to decide, as I live right near the triangle of the 3, and I'm Epic this season, like it or not. All options will be considered next year.
> 
> Sent from my moto e5 cruise using AlpineZone mobile app


I could see this going either way. Their season pass looks less appealing than it did two weeks ago. A day ticket on a Saturday is a different story. I also don't know how to handicap the intensity with which Vail will go after Pat's night business. My guess is they won't try that hard.

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## Edd (Jul 29, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Speaking of Crotched and Sunapee, could you imagine being Pats Peak and waking up last week to see that your two closest competitors are now owned by Vail?



Cranmore is in a similar situation but they’ve enjoyed some real investments in the base area in recent years. They’re also more family focused than Cat/Attitash luckily.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 29, 2019)

eastern powder baby said:


> Yeah I would have expected either a Toll House parking expansion and lift update or some rework of the capacity between the 4runner and that triple. Not gonna happen until at least next summer now.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


I'd like to see the triple go to HS6.  Plenty of trail capacity over there and it would help reduce lines on the Forerunner.  I'd leave Lookout double as is for wind hold insurance

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## Newpylong (Jul 29, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Speaking of Crotched and Sunapee, could you imagine being Pats Peak and waking up last week to see that your two closest competitors are now owned by Vail?



The Patenaude's aren't sweating any bullets over it. Business as usual for them. Snowmaking, snowmaking  and snowmaking and affordable lift improvements. Theyll keep printing money.


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## Jully (Jul 29, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> The Patenaude's aren't sweating any bullets over it. Business as usual for them. Snowmaking, snowmaking  and snowmaking and affordable lift improvements. Theyll keep printing money.



The school programs there I imagine are such money makers and Vail I doubt will try to grab that market too much.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Crotched though. Never was crowded before and there isn't a ton of parking. It is mega out of the way, so I don't see it ever getting TOO crowded. Also anyone else think Midnight Madness might be gone?


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## Jully (Jul 29, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Speaking of Crotched and Sunapee, could you imagine being Pats Peak and waking up last week to see that your two closest competitors are now owned by Vail?



Ragged too for that matter.


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## machski (Jul 29, 2019)

I would think Pat's will be fine, maybe even an uptick in business, especially night skiing if Vail increases Crotched's ticket price substantially.  Should be interesting to see.  We looked at a night of night skiing at Park City when we were out this past February on our Ikons, a single night was ridiculously priced for the limited terrain offered.  We passed.  

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## Quietman (Jul 29, 2019)

Funny, I looked at crotched's web site today and there is now no mention of Vail or the epic pass.  Only seasons pass options listed are the Peaks passes.  Have to go to Facebook to see Vail mentioned.  Strange!

Added edit: this is now the same for all Peaks areas


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## Katahdin (Dec 28, 2019)

Anybody know what's up with the Attitash summit triple?  Is this hunk of junk broken again?  There was an extended stoppage of an hour or so this morning. When they got it running again they were only loading 5 out of every 6 chairs for a while before closing the lift.  That leaves only 4 trails on the lower half of the mountain.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 30, 2019)

Katahdin said:


> Anybody know what's up with the Attitash summit triple?  Is this hunk of junk broken again?  There was an extended stoppage of an hour or so this morning. When they got it running again they were only loading 5 out of every 6 chairs for a while before closing the lift.  That leaves only 4 trails on the lower half of the mountain.



De ja vu all over again!  

Vail to the rescue?  I’d expect a cheap replacement in the form of another fixed-grip or one with a carpet.


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## xlr8r (Dec 30, 2019)

It was running fine on Sunday the 29th.  Actually ran pretty fast for a fixed grip.


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## thebigo (Dec 30, 2019)

Rode it several times today with no problems but everytime it stops you wonder if it will start again. Attitash was spectacular today, big soft bumps everywhere. Many low level skiers struggling severely but one of my best days over the last couple of years.


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## Newpylong (Dec 30, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> De ja vu all over again!
> 
> Vail to the rescue?  I’d expect a cheap replacement in the form of another fixed-grip or one with a carpet.
> 
> ...



That is not going to happen at 6200 feet long.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 30, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> That is not going to happen at 6200 feet long.


Agreed

I wonder how many fixed grip chairs over about maybe 4k length have been installed anywhere in North America in the past 20 years or so.  Unless it's specifically for expert level terrain and limiting capacity like a Castle Rock, I just don't recall such a new FG install.  People just don't want to spend 10+ minutes on a chair. 

I guess the "new" Magic quad would qualify

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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 31, 2019)

How long was the "re-install" of Southridge at Kmart?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 31, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> How long was the "re-install" of Southridge at Kmart?


According to this

https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/lifts/viewlift.php?id=498

The old chair was 4381'.  They don't have a length listed for the new one, only the vertical.  I would think because the new one goes straight instead of turning it would be considerably shorter. 

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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 31, 2019)

After further searching...

Approximately 3900'

Act 250


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## machski (Dec 31, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Agreed
> 
> I wonder how many fixed grip chairs over about maybe 4k length have been installed anywhere in North America in the past 20 years or so.  Unless it's specifically for expert level terrain and limiting capacity like a Castle Rock, I just don't recall such a new FG install.  People just don't want to spend 10+ minutes on a chair.
> 
> ...


The longest brand new fixed grip I am aware of installed in New England recently is Spruce at SR, about 4366' in length.  And that serves mostly intermediate and up terrain.

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## deadheadskier (Dec 31, 2019)

Good call.  It does have a carpet load though, so that helps shorten the ride time by about 20%.

Even a carpet load lift of 6200 feet is still going to be a long ass ride time. 





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## thetrailboss (Dec 31, 2019)

Newpylong said:


> That is not going to happen at 6200 feet long.



Will the NFS/WMNF allow them to install a HSQ with a higher capacity?


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 31, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Will the NFS/WMNF allow them to install a HSQ with a higher capacity?



All depends on whose pockets get lined...

Realistically though, just adjust the number of/spacing of carriers to get desired capacity.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 31, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Realistically though, just adjust the number of/spacing of carriers to get desired capacity.



I was wondering if that would be the solution.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 31, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> All depends on whose pockets get lined...
> 
> Realistically though, just adjust the number of/spacing of carriers to get desired capacity.



Chair spacing doesn't help ride time. People expect fast lifts these days, outside of the Magic type crowd. Attitash will continue to decline without a fast summit lift. Vail knows this and will either make it happen or cut their losses and sell the place.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 31, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Chair spacing doesn't help ride time. People expect fast lifts these days, outside of the Magic type crowd. Attitash will continue to decline without a fast summit lift. Vail knows this and will either make it happen or cut their losses and sell the place.



Ride time is pretty much a fixed number. A set distance X a max line speed of 1100fpm. (At least until 1200fpm detaches become standard)theTrailBoss was questioning slope capacity vs lift capacity.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 31, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Ride time is pretty much a fixed number. A set distance X a max line speed of 1100fpm. (At least until 1200fpm detaches become standard)theTrailBoss was questioning slope capacity vs lift capacity.



What I meant is that a detachable lift instead of a fixed grip (even a quicker, conveyor loading fg) is what's needed in place of the current triple to satisfy current expectations. Whether other factors exist that make it impossible to put a detachable chair there is a separate issue. But IMO a detachable summit lift is necessary to stop a slow sinking.


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## EPB (Dec 31, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> What I meant is that a detachable lift instead of a fixed grip (even a quicker, conveyor loading fg) is what's needed in place of the current triple to satisfy current expectations. Whether other factors exist that make it impossible to put a detachable chair there is a separate issue. But IMO a detachable summit lift is necessary to stop a slow sinking.


I was a regular at Attitash for the ASC years and some of the Peak years. The rumour was that ASC had the permits for a HSQ that lapsed somewhere in the 2008 range. The hope (at least by some of the ski patrollers) was that the triple could be re-installed from near the upper bride to/from Bear Peak to the summit (whether that was the summit of Little Attitash or just near the current summit, I no longer remember).

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## thetrailboss (Dec 31, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Ride time is pretty much a fixed number. A set distance X a max line speed of 1100fpm. (At least until 1200fpm detaches become standard)theTrailBoss was questioning slope capacity vs lift capacity.



Right.  I think that they want to avoid having to expand terrain to handle more traffic because that triggers NFS review and that would be hard.  

With Vermont Act 250, if the project is not "new" but instead a replacement of an existing lift then permitting is not needed.  That is of course focusing on the construction impacts on the land.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 31, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> What I meant is that a detachable lift instead of a fixed grip (even a quicker, conveyor loading fg) is what's needed in place of the current triple to satisfy current expectations. Whether other factors exist that make it impossible to put a detachable chair there is a separate issue. But IMO a detachable summit lift is necessary to stop a slow sinking.



I agree that a HS lift of some type would be warranted there.  I think that the permitting required may be a stumbling block and create more delays, especially if the plan is to expand terrain off the top to handle more traffic.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 31, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> What I meant is that a detachable lift instead of a fixed grip (even a quicker, conveyor loading fg) is what's needed in place of the current triple to satisfy current expectations. Whether other factors exist that make it impossible to put a detachable chair there is a separate issue. But IMO a detachable summit lift is necessary to stop a slow sinking.



I agree that a HS lift of some type would be warranted there.  I think that the permitting required may be a stumbling block and create more delays, especially if the plan is to expand terrain off the top to handle more traffic.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 31, 2019)

interesting points. I'm going to back pedal a bit. "slow sinking" might be an overstatement. *If* Attitash is currently sinking (separate issue) it's not because it lacks a fast ride to the summit. An unreliable lift, maybe is a cause, but not a slow lift IMO. I agree there's not enough trail capacity on the upper half of the mtn to absorb the traffic a high capacity lift could produce. If they can't cut more trails, then maybe the best solution is an FG chair running from mid mountain to summit. (Maybe put the bottom terminal just a bit below the Yankee top? I kind of think the Bear crossover would be too low; it'd still be a long ride.) Anyway Im commenting way more than I should given how few days I've actually skied there. [emoji38]But the last time I did, it was obvious that the mountain doesn't ski properly with such a timewise-long ride to the top.


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## machski (Dec 31, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Good call.  It does have a carpet load though, so that helps shorten the ride time by about 20%.
> 
> Even a carpet load lift of 6200 feet is still going to be a long ass ride time.
> 
> ...


True, although it wasn't running full speed the first two seasons because the unload was too flat.  They regraded that this season, the pitch on the unload ramp is vastly increased allowing you to unload it easily at full speed 

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## xlr8r (Jan 1, 2020)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> interesting points. I'm going to back pedal a bit. "slow sinking" might be an overstatement. *If* Attitash is currently sinking (separate issue) it's not because it lacks a fast ride to the summit. An unreliable lift, maybe is a cause, but not a slow lift IMO. I agree there's not enough trail capacity on the upper half of the mtn to absorb the traffic a high capacity lift could produce. If they can't cut more trails, then maybe the best solution is an FG chair running from mid mountain to summit. (Maybe put the bottom terminal just a bit below the Yankee top? I kind of think the Bear crossover would be too low; it'd still be a long ride.) Anyway Im commenting way more than I should given how few days I've actually skied there. [emoji38]But the last time I did, it was obvious that the mountain doesn't ski properly with such a timewise-long ride to the top.



While it might not help in advertising or stop the sinking market share, moving the summit triple would help if Vail refuses to replace with a HSQ.  The ideal bottom terminal spot IMO would be around the intersection of Upper Highway and the bottom of Tightrope.  This would allow lapping of all upper mountain trails except for those off of Saco.  This also would have the added benefit of taking traffic off of lower Northwest Passage/Far Out which all these trails tend to funnel into currently.  I was at Attitash this week and currently Far Out is the only way don on that side of the mountain and it has been a complete train wreck with way too many people on it beginners through expert.


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## Newpylong (Jan 1, 2020)

They are looking at a straight swap for a HSQ. No fixed grip, no midstation, none of that.


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## xlr8r (Jan 1, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> They are looking at a straight swap for a HSQ. No fixed grip, no midstation, none of that.



Newpylong, do you have some inside info, is this finally going to happen.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 2, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> Newpylong, do you have some inside info, is this finally going to happen.



Ah-ha.  Very interesting.  I, too, would like to know more.


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## Newpylong (Jan 2, 2020)

xlr8r said:


> Newpylong, do you have some inside info, is this finally going to happen.



Yes It is being seriously looked at. We shall see if they get the money.


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## EPB (Jan 2, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Yes It is being seriously looked at. We shall see if they get the money.


It has to be. I've probably said it already in this thread, but I don't know how Vail doesn't look at that lift as a detractor to it's brand if it goes unaddressed.

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## xlr8r (Jan 3, 2020)

Actually thinking about Attitash more after my visit there this week, I have come to the conclusion that Attitash has the most to gain from Vail ownership out of all the mountains Vail has acquired in New England over the last few years.  

Stowe - Already viewed as premiere New England destination, infrastructure in top shape, parking lot capacity maxed out
Okemo and Mount Snow - Top southern VT destinations already maxed out on capacity with crowds, some infrastructure improvements will be made to control crowds (i.e. new lifts at Okemo next year)
Sunapee and Crotched - Day trip mountains that both already have good infrastructure, no changes needed really at either, Sunapee west bowl probably never going to happen now.
Wildcat - Old school mountain that customers want to remain unchanged, Vail would be stupid to make changes that piss off loyal Wildcat skiers, isolated location means real estate development will never happen and crowds will never be outrageous.

But if Vail fixes some of the problems at Attitash, they can use Attitash along with Wildcat as a pressure relief valve destination as a lot of people are getting sick and tired of the crowds at their VT resorts (especially after the Mount Snow fiasco this week).  So I actually think Vail might not ignore Attitash, and instead make a lot of investments.  Besides the Summit lift replacement, the double doubles also desperately need to be replaced with a newer single lift with a loading carpet, and a lot of the lower mountain trails on the Attitash side and the trails connecting Attitash and Bear Peak need some rerouting.  Bear Peak really is fine as is, but they could cut an additional trail or two over there (between Wandering Skis and Illusion).


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## thetrailboss (Jan 3, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> It has to be. I've probably said it already in this thread, but I don't know how Vail doesn't look at that lift as a detractor to it's brand if it goes unaddressed.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



Agreed.  I think any new owner would see the Triple as a major issue, especially after talking with customers and management.  I think it is near 35 years old or so--that's a factor.  With Vail's buying power, that reduces the purchase price of a new lift.  I think the wildcard is still the NFS/WMNF permitting process.  Does anyone know if they did get a permit for replacement a few years back?  I'm not talking about ASC, but Peaks.


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## drewfidelic (Jan 3, 2020)

Since Vail already deals with the NFS on many of its other Western resorts on public land, I'd think that Vail is much more prepared than Peak to deal with the permitting process.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 3, 2020)

drewfidelic said:


> Since Vail already deals with the NFS on many of its other Western resorts on public land, I'd think that Vail is much more prepared than Peak to deal with the permitting process.



Good point.  More expertise and resources for sure.  However, I think that such decisions are made on a regional level.  Anyone know?


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## EPB (Jan 3, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Agreed.  I think any new owner would see the Triple as a major issue, especially after talking with customers and management.  I think it is near 35 years old or so--that's a factor.  With Vail's buying power, that reduces the purchase price of a new lift.  I think the wildcard is still the NFS/WMNF permitting process.  Does anyone know if they did get a permit for replacement a few years back?  I'm not talking about ASC, but Peaks.


I've heard mixed rumors on whether Peak renewed the permits. I always operated under the assumption that Peak could have built it if they really wanted to, but the desire was never there. I really have a hard time believing that permitting would actually stand in the way. Not the most informed take, but the lift like asked exists and Peak surely had enough irons in the fire with the forest service that I'm sure they could have acquiesced on an ask or two elsewhere to get it done.

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## GregoryIsaacs (Jan 3, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> I've heard mixed rumors on whether Peak renewed the permits. I always operated under the assumption that Peak could have built it if they really wanted to, but the desire was never there. I really have a hard time believing that permitting would actually stand in the way. Not the most informed take, but the lift like asked exists and Peak surely had enough irons in the fire with the forest service that I'm sure they could have acquiesced on an ask or two elsewhere to get it done.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



LOL to the thought of someone showing Rob Katz a printout of the pages upon pages of AZ discussion of that triple.. That alone would be enough to convince him id imagine


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## thetrailboss (Jan 3, 2020)

GregoryIsaacs said:


> LOL to the thought of someone showing Rob Katz a printout of the pages upon pages of AZ discussion of that triple.. That alone would be enough to convince him id imagine



Don't underestimate the power of AlpineZone.   

:lol:


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