# Poll on Banning Snowboarders from Places like MRG and Alta



## skiersleft (Mar 13, 2012)

I know snowboarders don't like it. So if you're a boarder try not to vote. The point is to see how skiers feel about the ban. Of course, boarders should feel free to voice their displeasure about such policies in the thread, but it would be cool if we get a sense of how skiers here feel about this ban.


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## hammer (Mar 13, 2012)

Really trying to  on a too-warm spring day?

;-)

Guess I don't like it (think it smacks of elitism regardless of the stated reasons) but my feelings aren't that strong about it.  Not enough to mean I won't go to those areas.


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## skiersleft (Mar 13, 2012)

hammer said:


> Really trying to  on a too-warm spring day?



Not really. Just curious. A boarder over on Kzone wants a sticker that says "No one cares if you ski MRG". It's obvious what boarders think of the ban, but I'm not so sure opinion is that unanimous in the case of skiers. Maybe it is. Don't know, so decided to start a poll!


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## Riverskier (Mar 13, 2012)

Don't care. Private businesses can run their operations as they see fit. If they feel there is a niche market for a skier only area, and that excluding potential customers is actually in their best interest, then so be it. Were only talking a few areas in the whole country, so it's not like snowboarders have nowhere to go.


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## snowmonster (Mar 13, 2012)

You're forgetting Deer Valley.


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## 2knees (Mar 13, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> You're forgetting Deer Valley.



Did Taos lift their ban?


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## snowmonster (Mar 13, 2012)

^ Yup. Two or three years ago.


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## Tooth (Mar 13, 2012)

Who really cares? It is elitist but I am fine riding at great mountains all over the country and beyond. I wouldnt want to ride at those places anyway. I hope they all struggle financially and someday will beg snowboarders to help bail them out by offering access to them. I hope the snowboarding community remembers how they didnt let them in. If you dont want me then I dont care to ride at your place. I do think its cool how snowboarders poach those places anyway. Its an old and stupid set of rules. BTW, the division exists in skiing also. Alpine vs freestyle skiers. Different mindsets I guess. The freestyle skiers are way more like the snowboarders than the alpinists in terms of mindsets, personality, etc. Thats all the time I will devote to this.


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## gladerider (Mar 13, 2012)

i ride and i don't care. whenever i think about hitting places up north, i never think about mrg. bush is always at the top of the list. don't think i am missing much. alta? don't think i am missing much there either, cuz i like riding snowbird.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 13, 2012)

I knew we could not get through this season without the infamous snowboard ban discussion.  We have it every season and it usually doesn't go over too well.


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## boston_e (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm a skier primarially and there is no argument that makes sense for the banning of snowboards.  That being said I guess I'm somewhere in between the "don't like it" and "don't care" category since it does not affect me.  But as Warren Miller said,if snowboarding had been invented first then areas would ban people from going with those two funny looking sticks strapped to their feet.


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## rocojerry (Mar 13, 2012)

ski and board, don't care, still ski mrg...     

I mean side scrape the whole way down....


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## thetrailboss (Mar 13, 2012)

My vote: meh.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't care.  It is a private company that do as they see fit.  Don't like it?  Buy a mtn. and make a skier ban there!


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## Cannonball (Mar 13, 2012)

I don't really think if it as an exclusion of snowboarders.  I think of it as a quarantine for elitist skiers.  It allows me to ride (or ski) at Sugarbush and Snowbird without the dicky contingent who are off on their own.  We used to have similar 'special' areas in grade school.  I wasn't allowed to ride on the short bus with them, but it didn't bother me.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 13, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> I don't really think if it as an exclusion of snowboarders.  I think of it as a quarantine for elitist skiers.  It allows me to ride (or ski) at Sugarbush and Snowbird without the dicky contingent who are off on their own.  We used to have similar 'special' areas in grade school.  I wasn't allowed to ride on the short bus with them, but it didn't bother me.



It's interesting that you mention this because I've skied a lot at both named areas and to some extent this is true.


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## Cannonball (Mar 13, 2012)

^^ I'm actually just kidding. I couldn't possibly care less. But if you're going to adopt a policy like you are asking for criticism.


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## AdironRider (Mar 13, 2012)

Boomers will stop skiing. When they do, MRG and Alta open to boarders. Guaranteed. 

Not only is it a 50/50 ratio at best for skiers to boarders for the upcoming generations, but we really dont give a shit about it either. If anything, people will get elitist about letting everyone in and not excluding anyone.


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## Edd (Mar 13, 2012)

I never understood the logic of banning riders and I'm a skier.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2012)

I think everyone should be able to get down the hill how ever they want, but private owners should be able to set rules they want.


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## powhunter (Mar 13, 2012)

Ban those telemarketers too


Steveo


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## Nick (Mar 13, 2012)

powhunter said:


> Ban those telemarketers too
> 
> 
> Steveo


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## Bumpsis (Mar 13, 2012)

I hardly ever get to ski Alta , so as far as that area is concerned, I don't care much about it being skier only, plus, it's really big enough, so it can spread out traffic. If I were a boarder, I probably would not like Alta much anyway - it's punctuated by quite a few flats in between descents.

The problem that I see is that heavy snowboard traffic does create moguls patterns that are less than ideal for a skier. It's kind of difficult to describe but I know it when when I ski it. The bumps just don't have a nice line and the turns feel "weird". This season I have not run into it all that much due to realtive lack of natural snow.
I can see how a lot of snowboarding traffic could change the nature of the moguls that grow at MRG. If MRG wants to remain skier only, I'm for it.

But overall, it's sort of a small issue. I ususally don't see too many boarders in mogul fields and when they're there, most look like crap. It just doesn't look like an optimal experience for them.


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## neil (Mar 13, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> Not really. Just curious. A boarder over on Kzone wants a sticker that says "No one cares if you ski MRG". It's obvious what boarders think of the ban, but I'm not so sure opinion is that unanimous in the case of skiers. Maybe it is. Don't know, so decided to start a poll!



I want one of those stickers


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## emmaurice2 (Mar 13, 2012)

I've met d-bag skiers and riders, but I've also met friendly and interesting skiers and riders.  I've seen riders scrape away nice snow, but I've seen skiers do the same thing.  The arguments against riders always seemed pretty silly to me.  It usually comes down to select individuals being a problem as opposed to the group as a whole.  

As a person interested in history and preservation, in general, not just in the skiing world, I can understand MRG's desire to preserve a snapshot of skiing history, and dedication to sharing that snapshot with skiers who want to relive "skiing as it used to be" or to introduce younger generations to "what it used to be like."  It's their business to run as they see fit.

I am unfamiliar with Alta and Deer Valley, so I don't know what their spiel is, but it's their prerogative if they want to alienate a segment of the snow sports population.

Personally, I'll take runs with riders or skiers, as long as everyone's having fun, enjoying the snow and respecting one another.


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## Edd (Mar 13, 2012)

I skied Attitash today with two of my favorite people to hit the slopes with, both riders. They would absolutely love MRG. I think it's a shame they can't take their boards there.


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## k123 (Mar 13, 2012)

skiersleft said:


> I know snowboarders don't like it. So if you're a boarder try not to vote. The point is to see how skiers feel about the ban. Of course, boarders should feel free to voice their displeasure about such policies in the thread, but it would be cool if we get a sense of how skiers here feel about this ban.



Sorry I voted "don't like it" before reading the post. (I'm a boarder) :-?


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## jlboyell (Mar 13, 2012)

Tooth said:


> Who really cares? It is elitist but I am fine riding at great mountains all over the country and beyond. I wouldnt want to ride at those places anyway. I hope they all struggle financially and someday will beg snowboarders to help bail them out by offering access to them. I hope the snowboarding community remembers how they didnt let them in. If you dont want me then I dont care to ride at your place. I do think its cool how snowboarders poach those places anyway. Its an old and stupid set of rules. BTW, the division exists in skiing also. Alpine vs freestyle skiers. Different mindsets I guess. The freestyle skiers are way more like the snowboarders than the alpinists in terms of mindsets, personality, etc. Thats all the time I will devote to this.



exactly.  it is a companies choice who they let in, and as a consumer, its my choice to never give them money.  i think skiers should be glad riding came in and grew in popularity, it definitely spread snowsports to a different demographic, and i think took some of the snobbyness out of skiing.  i grew up skiing, but ride now.


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## NotEasyBeingGreen (Mar 14, 2012)

It's their business, but they won't get mine, since my son boards.


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## rocojerry (Mar 14, 2012)

AdironRider said:


> Boomers will stop skiing. When they do, MRG and Alta open to boarders. Guaranteed.



As long as the shareholders-owners are 100% skiing and brainwashed on keeping it that way, I don't think they will flip.  A better chance of it going out of business eventually and opening with new ownership that allows both.

Can't speak for Alta -- but you can at least already get over there from Snowbird if you want to.


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## Glenn (Mar 14, 2012)

I heard snowboarders ruin moguls. Any truth to that rumor? :lol:


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## snowmonster (Mar 14, 2012)

As the boarder population grows and ages, do you think we'll see the day when a ski area becomes boarders only?


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## hammer (Mar 14, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> As the boarder population grows and ages, do you think we'll see the day when a ski area becomes boarders only?


Can you still call it a ski area then?


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> As the boarder population grows and ages, do you think we'll see the day when a ski area becomes boarders only?



No.   There would have to be a drastic change in the market.

 Snowboarding's increasing popularity and dramatic rise through the 90s and 00s, has not only dropped off dramatically to the point of completely leveling off, but sales of new snowboards (which is probably one of the best indicators of growth) has been decreasing for several years now, while new ski sales have increased.  So it seems like we're going back to a phase where "skiing is cool" again.   Three or four months ago, Ski Magazine had a bit about this.   They hypothesized that since much of snowboarding's rise was due to all the cool tricks you can do on a snowboard, kids have since realized that there are actually many more tricks that can be performed on skis since the freedom of independently moving legs allows for a much larger range of motion in the air.  Who knows whether they're right in their guess or not, but you sure do see a heckuva lot more kids on skis in the parks these days.


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## puckoach (Mar 14, 2012)

While I don't have experience with these area's to really comment, IMHO if there is a problem, re-design or enforcement is another option.

Place your "park" so that boarders are not going thru your slow zones.  Or, actually pull some fast boarder's passes.

Or, maybe we just get a surge of twin stick protesters to slowly traverse the board parks.....

Hell no you won't go, Hell no you won't go, Hell no.....


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## snoseek (Mar 14, 2012)

I think its dumb but whatever they want to do is fine.

Skied Taos the final days before the ban was lifted, skied it the following year The difference-none.

The only upside is I feel like it concentrates all the douchbags and grumpy old dickheads into one resort.


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## snoseek (Mar 14, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> You're forgetting Deer Valley.



Yeah but noone really cares about deer valley:flag:


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> As the boarder population grows and ages, do you think we'll see the day when a ski area becomes boarders only?



Nah, we're not like that.


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## Trekchick (Mar 14, 2012)

snoseek said:


> I think its dumb but whatever they want to do is fine.
> 
> Skied Taos the final days before the ban was lifted, skied it the following year The difference-none.
> 
> The only upside is I feel like it concentrates all the douchbags and grumpy old dickheads into one resort.


Speaking of concentrating douchbags.....care to meet up to ski this week?


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## jrmagic (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the bans on boarders is ridiculous but its their chioce to limit their potential dollars.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2012)

jrmagic said:


> I think the bans on boarders is ridiculous but its their chioce to limit their potential dollars.



How I feel.

And as a skier, MRG has lost out on my dollars on more than a handful of occasions over the years as I was skiing those days with snowboarders.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2012)

One big reason why we did not go with Alta this season, other than price and length of season, was the fact that our snowboarding friends who come out here could not come with us.  I've already had a couple snowboarding friends come to Snowbird with us this season.  In fact, I've already cashed in nine of my ten discount day tix for friends (we get 10 per pass).  Those friends not only bought tickets, but bought food, drinks, and were sure to go to the logo shop and get T-shirts and other things.  That adds up pretty fast.


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## Edd (Mar 14, 2012)

Trekchick said:


> Speaking of concentrating douchbags.....care to meet up to ski this week?



Ha ha Snoseek


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2012)

snoseek said:


> Yeah but noone really cares about deer valley:flag:



I almost spit out my champagne and caviar when I read this comment....







:wink:


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## neil (Mar 14, 2012)

What I want to know is....what did skiers moan about before snowboards came around?


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## emmaurice2 (Mar 14, 2012)

neil said:


> What I want to know is....what did skiers moan about before snowboards came around?



Killington


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## Abubob (Mar 14, 2012)

hammer said:


> Can you still call it a ski area then?



It would then be called a "Snow Riders Resort" or "Winter Sports Area" or "Shred Arena". :wink:


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 14, 2012)

*Post of the month*



Trekchick said:


> Speaking of concentrating douchbags.....care to meet up to ski this week?


:smile:


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## 4aprice (Mar 14, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> No.   There would have to be a drastic change in the market.
> 
> Snowboarding's increasing popularity and dramatic rise through the 90s and 00s, has not only dropped off dramatically to the point of completely leveling off, but sales of new snowboards (which is probably one of the best indicators of growth) has been decreasing for several years now, while new ski sales have increased.  So it seems like we're going back to a phase where "skiing is cool" again.   Three or four months ago, Ski Magazine had a bit about this.   They hypothesized that since much of snowboarding's rise was due to all the cool tricks you can do on a snowboard, kids have since realized that there are actually many more tricks that can be performed on skis since the freedom of independently moving legs allows for a much larger range of motion in the air.  Who knows whether they're right in their guess or not, but you sure do see a heckuva lot more kids on skis in the parks these days.



This is something I have heard too (Maybe the same article).  I've never had any problems with boarders but I do think there is a market for skier only.(maybe not fair but there) Maybe there would be a market for boarder only as well.  I thought the old Park City West resort tried that before becoming Canyons.  The only legitmate excuse I've ever heard for banning boards was from MRG and that applied to the single chair only and that was for some reason snow boarders getting off the chair were  causing derailments.  Like TB says this get discussed every season and with the way this season is ending I think its going to be a long summer.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2012)

So all the comments in this thread are from the "don't like it" or the "don't care" camps.  Yet 24 people voted "like it".  This thread isn't going anywhere without hearing that side of the story.


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## snowmonster (Mar 14, 2012)

^ Once that happens, I predict this will look like a summertime thread.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2012)

jrmagic said:


> *I think the bans on boarders is ridiculous* but its their chioce to limit their potential dollars.



I dont think it's ridiculous at all.

  It's MRG's desire to keep the mountain historical like a museum (single chair, almost no snowmaking, etc...) and preserving it as "skiing only" as an original snow sport area.  

 There are literally hundreds of ski and snowboard areas in America, so there is clearly market demand for a mere 2 or 3 skiing only areas, and as such I frankly doubt it _"limits their potential dollars"_ as much as many people think.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 14, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> So all the comments in this thread are from the "don't like it" or the "don't care" camps.  Yet 24 people voted "like it".  This thread isn't going anywhere without hearing that side of the story.



And to think that the original author could have set up the poll to identify the voters......



:wink:


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> I dont think it's ridiculous at all.
> 
> It's MRG's desire to keep the mountain historical like a museum (single chair, almost no snowmaking, etc...) and preserving it as "skiing only" as an original snow sport area.
> 
> There are literally hundreds of ski and snowboard areas in America, so there is clearly market demand for a mere 2 or 3 skiing only areas, and as such I frankly doubt it _"limits their potential dollars"_ as much as many people think.



+10.  Actually it's what keeps them in biz.  They would likely fail in a head to head competition with their neighbors without substantial investments.  The niche marketing allows them to create an appeal that doesn't cost them anything.


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## Glenn (Mar 14, 2012)

emmaurice2 said:


> Killington



:lol:

Classic!


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## Mapnut (Mar 14, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> So all the comments in this thread are from the "don't like it" or the "don't care" camps.  Yet 24 people voted "like it".  This thread isn't going anywhere without hearing that side of the story.



I voted "for it" just because I think it's good that a tiny percentage of areas can offer a different experience.  Many here have said "They're losing my business." But if there are only, say, 3% of all ski areas that ban snowboards, then if there are 3% of skiers who would rather not have snowboards, that's all the market they need.

My only complaint about snowboards is the deep ruts they carve on groomers.  If they make a difference in moguls, I couldn't tell because I stink so bad in them anyway.  Generally, I want snowboarders around to buy tickets and help pay the bills.


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> I voted "for it" just because I think it's good that a tiny percentage of areas can offer a different experience.  Many here have said "They're losing my business." But if there are only, say, 3% of all ski areas that ban snowboards, then if there are 3% of skiers who would rather not have snowboards, that's all the market they need.



Well said.



Mapnut said:


> My only complaint about snowboards is the deep ruts they carve on groomers.  If they make a difference in moguls, I couldn't tell because I stink so bad in them anyway.  Generally, I want snowboarders around to buy tickets and help pay the bills.



MRG must being particularly infuriating for you.  No snowboarders to rut up the groomers.....but MRG barely grooms.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 14, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> My only complaint about snowboards is the deep ruts they carve on groomers.



Well then dont follow me when I am on my carver skis.  I leave some deep ruts!


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## snowmonster (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps, in a sign that MRG is slowly changing, there are a number of groomers nowadays -- and a terrain park.


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## SkiFanE (Mar 14, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> I voted "for it" just because I think it's good that a tiny percentage of areas can offer a different experience.  Many here have said "They're losing my business." But if there are only, say, 3% of all ski areas that ban snowboards, then if there are 3% of skiers who would rather not have snowboards, that's all the market they need.
> 
> My only complaint about snowboards is the deep ruts they carve on groomers.  If they make a difference in moguls, I couldn't tell because I stink so bad in them anyway.  Generally, I want snowboarders around to buy tickets and help pay the bills.



I went to MRG for first time last year.  Loved it.  But I can't say the bumps there were any better/worse without snowboarders.  Or maybe I was just in awe of all the bump runs that I didn't notice a difference.


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## neil (Mar 14, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> My only complaint about snowboards is the deep ruts they carve on groomers.


What's the logic behind that? Honestly very interested as to how you came to that conclusion.


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## Mapnut (Mar 14, 2012)

Really, you haven't seen them? I'm talking about just one turn by one boarder, leaving a rut 3-4 inches deep and 10 feet long.  They haven't ruined my day yet but I suppose I could catch an edge in one if I didn't see it coming.


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> Really, you haven't seen them? I'm talking about just one turn by one boarder, leaving a rut 3-4 inches deep and 10 feet long.  They haven't ruined my day yet but I suppose I could catch an edge in one if I didn't see it coming.



Damn!  I feel like I can carve pretty freak'n hard.  But a 4" deep trench on a groomer would be seriously impressive.


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## rocojerry (Mar 14, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> Really, you haven't seen them? I'm talking about just one turn by one boarder, leaving a rut 3-4 inches deep and 10 feet long.  They haven't ruined my day yet but I suppose I could catch an edge in one if I didn't see it coming.



I think that was a waterbar.


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## snoseek (Mar 14, 2012)

Trekchick said:


> Speaking of concentrating douchbags.....care to meet up to ski this week?



LOL!!!

Anyhow the next couple i'm at the wood i think due to higher elevation (snow), Saturday I'm blacked out up there. Sun/mon/tues ect...I'm open as long as any snow that falls is relatively cold, if not I'm going high. Should you guys decide to hit kwood let me know. It may be your best bet with snow levels going to 7000+ tomorrow and friday.


How is rose doing?


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## snoseek (Mar 14, 2012)

If those snow levels come down thurs eve then Nstar may be pretty good being sheltered and all huh?


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## Trekchick (Mar 14, 2012)

snoseek said:


> LOL!!!
> 
> Anyhow the next couple i'm at the wood i think due to higher elevation (snow), Saturday I'm blacked out up there. Sun/mon/tues ect...I'm open as long as any snow that falls is relatively cold, if not I'm going high. Should you guys decide to hit kwood let me know. It may be your best bet with snow levels going to 7000+ tomorrow and friday.
> 
> ...


Rose snow is holding up great but the wind hold has kept them shut down a lot.  If its not on wind hold tomorrow, I'm working the women's clinic.  

If you decide to hit Squaw/alpine one day, let me know, I can get yoga 1/2 of ticket. ($46)
I'll let you know what we're doing FridaySat  I have tentative plans at Northstar on Saturday.  If you come ton North Lake, bring a bag and stay the night at our house.


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## snoseek (Mar 15, 2012)

Trekchick said:


> Rose snow is holding up great but the wind hold has kept them shut down a lot.  If its not on wind hold tomorrow, I'm working the women's clinic.
> 
> If you decide to hit Squaw/alpine one day, let me know, I can get yoga 1/2 of ticket. ($46)
> I'll let you know what we're doing FridaySat  I have tentative plans at Northstar on Saturday.  If you come ton North Lake, bring a bag and stay the night at our house.



I'm too poor at this point to really buy any sort of tag-good deal though. 4 months of not working is starting to take its toll, still a month to go. Is my 7wood good at northstar on saturdays?My Tahoe Value is not.. 

This storm looks to really crank up on friday!!!!!


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## Trekchick (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm not sure what the 7 wood is good for.  If I didn't have people meeting me on Saturday, I'd consider heading your way.


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## Mapnut (Mar 15, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> Damn!  I feel like I can carve pretty freak'n hard.  But a 4" deep trench on a groomer would be seriously impressive.



I could take some photos, but I don't think I'll get out again this year.  Of course you guys don't see what you leave behind you.


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## dennis (Mar 15, 2012)

Sorry about that. I couldn't help it. oh and I have not bought a ticket in my life, sorry bout that to.


Mapnut said:


> My only complaint about snowboards is the deep ruts they carve on groomers.  If they make a difference in moguls, I couldn't tell because I stink so bad in them anyway.  Generally, I want snowboarders around to buy tickets and help pay the bills.


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## Cannonball (Mar 15, 2012)

Mapnut said:


> I could take some photos, but I don't think I'll get out again this year.  Of course you guys don't see what you leave behind you.



I'll keep my eyes open for trenches like that.  I know I don't leave 'em.  With my size 11s I'd boot out WAY before I could get 4" deep on a snowboard carve.  Maybe on my fat skis. But then again 115mm under foot is only 4.5" wide.  So even on those boot-out is an issue.  I'm picturing a very heavy, very strong snowboarder with very tiny feet.....


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## dennis (Mar 15, 2012)

It’s a myth Glenn, it’s like saying guns kill people when it's people that kill people.:uzi:



Glenn said:


> I heard snowboarders ruin moguls. Any truth to that rumor? :lol:


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## legalskier (Mar 15, 2012)

neil said:


> What I want to know is....what did skiers moan about before snowboards came around?



I'm waiting for the day when I see an older snowboarder getting irked by the younger ones when they do things like sit en masse across a trail below a lip....or _buzz_ by at a high rate of speed....or [fill in any type of annoying boarder behavior].
That being said, this is a non-issue for me. I don't ski with boarders so going to someplace like MRG isn't a concern. I can handle myself just fine on the hill thank you, so I simply adjust to the conditions they create.  Those weirdly shaped moguls used to irritate, but now I see them as an opportunity to become better in the bumps. Wth, make lemonade. 



Mapnut said:


> Really, you haven't seen them? I'm talking about just one turn by one boarder, leaving a rut 3-4 inches deep and 10 feet long.  They haven't ruined my day yet but I suppose I could catch an edge in one if I didn't see it coming.




Dragging the inside hand on the snow doesn't help either.  :wink:


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## wawawawawa (Mar 15, 2012)

Don't see many of those alpine boards around...


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## mlctvt (Mar 15, 2012)

One thing I noticed when we were at Park City earlier this year was the lack of snow boarders compared to skiers. I'd estimate the ratio of snow boarders at 10%-20% or less.  It really surprised us as here in southern VT I'd estimate it's closer to 40-50% snow boards. 
We skied Sunday through Friday and there were lots of retired folks at the mountains. Maybe that made a difference? Or maybe Deer Valley and their anti-boarder mentality is rubbing off on PCMR and Canyons too?


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## thetrailboss (Mar 15, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> One thing I noticed when we were at Park City earlier this year was the lack of snow boarders compared to skiers. I'd estimate the ratio of snow boarders at 10%-20% or less.  It really surprised us as here in southern VT I'd estimate it's closer to 40-50% snow boards.
> We skied Sunday through Friday and there were lots of retired folks at the mountains. Maybe that made a difference? Or maybe Deer Valley and their anti-boarder mentality is rubbing off on PCMR and Canyons too?



In our research, we found that PCMR was the next one in line after Deer Valley for pricing.  Deer Valley was outrageous:  PCMR was less, but not much less.  So maybe I am generalizing, but with that kind of pricing structure they have sought a different clientele than what most snowboarders fall into.


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## bobbutts (Mar 15, 2012)

Donno about all the arguments about attitude/danger/snow whatver, but clearly it changes the vibe or feel of the place to allow only skiers.. I think same would apply for boarder only if a resort goes in that direction.  I think that having different types of places available is a good thing.   Sad to miss out on that terrain if your only skill is not allowed, but since I know how to ski and board both it's a non-issue for me


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## Cannonball (Mar 15, 2012)

bobbutts said:


> Donno about all the arguments about attitude/danger/snow whatver, but clearly it changes the vibe or feel of the place to allow only skiers.. I think same would apply for boarder only if a resort goes in that direction.  I think that having different types of places available is a good thing.   Sad to miss out on that terrain *if your only skill is not allowed,* but since I know how to ski and board both it's a non-issue for me



Your phrasing of the that (your skill is not allowed) made me think of this a different way.  How about a mountain that says "*advanced *skiers and riders" only.  If your skill doesn't put you in this category you are not allowed to slide on our resort.  I wonder how that would play in terms of niche marketing and general acceptability.


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## Gilligan (Mar 15, 2012)

Trekchick said:


> I'm not sure what the 7 wood is good for.  If I didn't have people meeting me on Saturday, I'd consider heading your way.



Why are you and Snoseek carrying on a private conversation about Tahoe in a Northeast ski forum?


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## emmaurice2 (Mar 15, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> Your phrasing of the that (your skill is not allowed) made me think of this a different way.  How about a mountain that says "*advanced *skiers and riders" only.  If your skill doesn't put you in this category you are not allowed to slide on our resort.  I wonder how that would play in terms of niche marketing and general acceptability.



Mount Bohemia uses this "expert only" marketing ploy.  http://www.mtbohemia.com/


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## snoseek (Mar 15, 2012)

Gilligan said:


> Why are you and Snoseek carrying on a private conversation about Tahoe in a Northeast ski forum?



Because this is the perfect thread to derail:smash:


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## powhunter (Mar 15, 2012)

Gilligan said:


> Why are you and Snoseek carrying on a private conversation about Tahoe in a Northeast ski forum?



Whats up with the name Gilligan??

Steveo


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## Gilligan (Mar 15, 2012)

powhunter said:


> Whats up with the name Gilligan??
> 
> Steveo



When I am here I feel lost.


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## darent (Mar 15, 2012)

don't understand a mountain that  pushes a family agenda and bans boarders, not very family friendly,{Deer Valley}


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## eatskisleep (Mar 17, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> Your phrasing of the that (your skill is not allowed) made me think of this a different way.  How about a mountain that says "*advanced *skiers and riders" only.  If your skill doesn't put you in this category you are not allowed to slide on our resort.  I wonder how that would play in terms of niche marketing and general acceptability.



Works great at Silverton Mountain, Colorado... And places in Europe 



deadheadskier said:


> How I feel.
> 
> And as a skier, MRG has lost out on my dollars on more than a handful of occasions over the years as I was skiing those days with snowboarders.



Yeah but you also need to keep in mind that there are people who ski there because it is skier only, who otherwise might not bother.


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## dropKickMurphy (Mar 18, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> One thing I noticed when we were at Park City earlier this year was the lack of snow boarders compared to skiers. I'd estimate the ratio of snow boarders at 10%-20% or less.  It really surprised us as here in southern VT I'd estimate it's closer to 40-50% snow boards.
> We skied Sunday through Friday and there were lots of retired folks at the mountains. Maybe that made a difference? Or maybe Deer Valley and their anti-boarder mentality is rubbing off on PCMR and Canyons too?



I haven't been to any of the Park City areas, but I thought PCMR was known for its terrain parks. Maybe that's where all the boarders were. 
The places I have skied out there..Alta (obviously) Snowbird, Solitude and Snowbasin all seemed to have a fairly low percentage of boarders. Especially in areas that require traversing. I know Brighton is very popular with snowbarders.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2012)

eatskisleep said:


> Yeah but you also need to keep in mind that there are people who ski there because it is skier only, who otherwise might not bother.



oh yeah?

what would they do if snowboarders were allowed?  Hop a plane to Deer Valley or Alta?  :lol:

I'm sure you are right; I just don't understand why some skiers STILL discriminate against snowboarders


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## steamboat1 (Mar 19, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> I just don't understand why some skiers STILL discriminate against snowboarders


What's not to understand?


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## RENO (Mar 19, 2012)

rocojerry said:


> As long as the shareholders-owners are 100% skiing and brainwashed on keeping it that way, I don't think they will flip.  A better chance of it going out of business eventually and opening with new ownership that allows both.
> 
> Can't speak for Alta -- but you can at least already get over there from Snowbird if you want to.



Last time I saw a count of votes at MRG posted there were over 30% of the members that voted to allow snowboarding. It was about 5 or 6 years ago. Don't remember where I read that. I think it was in one of the ski or snowboard magazines and it was from a member. Eventually the old duct-taped miserable and angry members will die off and new more modern thinking people will join and snowboarding will be allowed at MRG! :lol: 

The skier vs boarder stuff is ridiculous!


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> What's not to understand?



Why any skier would care if there are people snowboarding on the same terrain that they are skiing.


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## neil (Mar 19, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Why any skier would care if there are people snowboarding on the same terrain that they are skiing.



The 10" deep ruts they leave in the groomers!


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## OldsnowboarderME (Mar 19, 2012)

neil said:


> The 10" deep ruts they leave in the groomers!


Sorry..


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## jrmagic (Mar 19, 2012)

mlctvt said:


> One thing I noticed when we were at Park City earlier this year was the lack of snow boarders compared to skiers. I'd estimate the ratio of snow boarders at 10%-20% or less.  It really surprised us as here in southern VT I'd estimate it's closer to 40-50% snow boards.



Interesting. At Magic I would estimate its closer to the 10-20% threshold. I guess in part because we don't have parks.


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## MadPadraic (Mar 19, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> As the boarder population grows and ages, do you think we'll see the day when a ski area becomes boarders only?



We already have the one with the most snow (Baker).

As for my opinion, I like that there is a place for the cranky people to congregate.


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## AdironRider (Mar 19, 2012)

RENO said:


> Last time I saw a count of votes at MRG posted there were over 30% of the members that voted to allow snowboarding. It was about 5 or 6 years ago. Don't remember where I read that. I think it was in one of the ski or snowboard magazines and it was from a member. Eventually the old duct-taped miserable and angry members will die off and new more modern thinking people will join and snowboarding will be allowed at MRG! :lol:
> 
> The skier vs boarder stuff is ridiculous!



Thats some good info if true.

Im with ya on the older, angrier members dieing off. I cant remember the last time I saw or heard anyone bitch about snowboarders that wasnt at least middle aged. The next generation really does not care whatsoever. An extreme majority of the older generation doesnt care either.


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## eatskisleep (Mar 19, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> oh yeah?
> 
> what would they do if snowboarders were allowed?  Hop a plane to Deer Valley or Alta?  :lol:
> 
> I'm sure you are right; I just don't understand why some skiers STILL discriminate against snowboarders



The bumps.  I'm always on the lookout for good bump runs, but so far nothing compares to the bumps at MGR.

(Disclaimer: I used to snowboard too. Just ski now. Nothing against snowboarders. But the bumps at MRG don't compare to anywhere else. People out west say the same about the bumps at Alta vs Snowbird.)


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## Cannonball (Mar 19, 2012)

snowmonster said:


> As the boarder population grows and ages, do you think we'll see the day when a ski area becomes boarders only?





MadPadraic said:


> We already have the one with the most snow (Baker).



Huh?  Baker isn't snowboard only.  Is it?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2012)

eatskisleep said:


> The bumps.  I'm always on the lookout for good bump runs, but so far nothing compares to the bumps at MGR.
> 
> (Disclaimer: I used to snowboard too. Just ski now. Nothing against snowboarders. But the bumps at MRG don't compare to anywhere else. People out west say the same about the bumps at Alta vs Snowbird.)



I dunno, Sugarbush is pretty much the top bump destination in the east IMO and they allow snowboarders.  I know MRG always has great bumps as well.  If someone wants to argue they're better than those at the Bush, they maybe right.  Still doesn't mean that the Bush doesn't have fantastic bumps and they obviously allow boarders.

I certainly don't disagree with the notion that a snowboard can screw up a bump line, but I think people over hype that fact.  Most boarders I know don't really care for bumps all that much unless they're pow bumps. Even those boarders who do enjoy bumps, they tend to not be as fanatical about moguls as skiers.

I highly doubt the bump product at MRG suffers tremendously if boarders were allowed on the hill.


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## MadPadraic (Mar 19, 2012)

Cannonball said:


> Huh?  Baker isn't snowboard only.  Is it?



No...just the vast majority. I was being funny.


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## Cannonball (Mar 19, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> No...just the vast majority. I was being funny.



Oh. ha.  It's been awhile since I've been there.  It was pretty much evenly distributed at the time.  Although my group was 6 snowboarders at 2 skiers.  So there you go....


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## snoseek (Mar 19, 2012)

40 vs. 16. I'd say there's plenty of anti on this site!

As far as a place like MRG, If its truly an awesome mtn (which it is imo) then people will line up regardless. Like I said...Taos, no noticable difference to me. Then again acerage might play a factor.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2012)

snoseek said:


> 40 vs. 16. I'd say there's plenty of anti on this site!



Been more than a few folks in this thread that have said once the crotchety old skiers die off, the ban will be lifted at MRG.  Going on stats, that means there are 16 forum members who want 40 anti-snowboarding forum members dead.    :lol:


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## MadPadraic (Mar 19, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Been more than a few folks in this thread that have said once the crotchety old skiers die off, the ban will be lifted at MRG.  Going on stats, that means there are 16 forum members who want 40 anti-snowboarding forum members dead.    :lol:



39 actually. I'm a snowboarder and therefore not a crotchedy old skier. However, I voted to keep the ban.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2012)

better watch your back!!!!


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## marcski (Mar 20, 2012)

neil said:


> The 10" deep ruts they leave in the groomers!



Skiers can leave deep tracks as well....Carve 'em.  

MRG is definitely one of my favorite hills to ski.  If it worked and continues to work for the past 60 years...why change it now?


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## RENO (Mar 20, 2012)

MadPadraic said:


> 39 actually. I'm a snowboarder and therefore not a crotchedy old skier. However, I voted to keep the ban.



Why? 

Yes, there are a lot of old crotchedy skiers on many ski/snowboard related boards including this one and Killingtonzone! :???:


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## RENO (Mar 20, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Been more than a few folks in this thread that have said once the crotchety old skiers die off, the ban will be lifted at MRG.  Going on stats, that means there are 16 forum members who want 40 anti-snowboarding forum members dead.    :lol:



Not all of them. :razz:
Of course, those 16 are supposed to be skiers so there must be a lot more AZoners that wish death on the 40! :lol:


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## Edd (Mar 20, 2012)

neil said:


> The 10" deep ruts they leave in the groomers!



Not much for groomers at MRG. Also I could care less about these ruts at a typical cruiser McMountain.


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## benwhiteskis (Mar 20, 2012)

Any traverses should just be banned to snowboarders unless they're very good. I can't count how many times I could have carried speed through an up but almost hit a snowboarder who couldn't carry speed and had to take off their board and post-hole their way up a little section


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## Edd (Mar 20, 2012)

benwhiteskis said:


> Any traverses should just be banned to snowboarders unless they're very good.



That sounds goofy.


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## Method9455 (Mar 20, 2012)

benwhiteskis said:


> Any traverses should just be banned to snowboarders unless they're very good. I can't count how many times I could have carried speed through an up but almost hit a snowboarder who couldn't carry speed and had to take off their board and post-hole their way up a little section



Classic. 

You know that you can turn without scrubbing speed right? I can't remember the last time I had trouble running out of speed on a traverse whether I was on my skis or my board due to newbies clogging it up. But I've seen a million people stuck on traverses (skier or snowboarder) because they don't wax their gear and can't make subtle turns without skidding. Who exactly isn't very good?


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## RENO (Mar 20, 2012)

benwhiteskis said:


> Any traverses should just be banned to snowboarders unless they're very good. I can't count how many times I could have carried speed through an up but almost hit a snowboarder who couldn't carry speed and had to take off their board and post-hole their way up a little section



That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read! :lol:


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## Tooth (Mar 20, 2012)

Method9455 said:


> Classic.
> 
> You know that you can turn without scrubbing speed right? I can't remember the last time I had trouble running out of speed on a traverse whether I was on my skis or my board due to newbies clogging it up. But I've seen a million people stuck on traverses (skier or snowboarder) because they don't wax their gear and can't make subtle turns without skidding. Who exactly isn't very good?



Exactly.


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## MadPadraic (Mar 20, 2012)

benwhiteskis said:


> Any traverses should just be banned to snowboarders unless they're very good. I can't count how many times I could have carried speed through an up but almost hit a snowboarder who couldn't carry speed and had to take off their board and post-hole their way up a little section



You what's really annoying? Having skiers (and maybe a boarder or two) strung out across the top of an uphill blocking you from finishing the cat track. But hey, it's never intentional, so why care?  



RENO said:


> Why?


Grumpy skiers should have their place to congregate. Why take it from them? Besides Anyone Can Ski Mad River Glen, but borders have to earn their turns :wink:


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## Cannonball (Mar 20, 2012)

benwhiteskis said:


> Any traverses should just be banned to snowboarders unless they're very good.



Would they have to pass a test? Or would it be honor system?  Maybe a system if fines.


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## avery (Mar 26, 2012)

No strong opionions here. I will say that one of my favorite things about MRG is the throw-back feel. So perhaps keeping it snowboard free is more reminiscent of days past when everyone had independent leg motion?  That said, I'm married to a great boarder/mediocre skier... I'd have more fun ripping up MRG with him if he was on his board. Then again, we've had some laughs watching him try to navigate that mountain on his skies


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## Cannonball (Mar 26, 2012)

avery said:


> No strong opionions here. I will say that one of my favorite things about MRG is the throw-back feel. So perhaps keeping it snowboard free is more reminiscent of days past when everyone had independent leg motion?



Ah, maybe that's a way to approach it.  Instead of banning snowboarders, just call it the "throw-back" mountain.  No equipment allowed that was introduced after 1980.  That would pretty much solve the snowboard 'problem'.  It would also solve the parabolic, mid-fat, fat, twin-tip, gore-tex, and helmet 'problems'.


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## Method9455 (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm a skier and a snowboarder. A large contingent of the people I ride with only snowboard. That prevents me from going to MRG and Alta.

I still don't think it's a problem. Let them do their thing. I personally think the mountains are converging too much on one model. High-speed lifts, lots of grooming and snowmaking, cookie cutter villages, high ticket prices, etc etc. 

I like the uniquness of Magic, MRG, Alta, Silverton, or the park-centric mountains like Bear, Big Boulder, or Boreal. 

There are plenty of places with that broad mix of some groomers, some bumps, some park, etc etc. But there is nothing wrong with places specializing. If you are a bump-master, go out to Mary Jane. If you love park, go to Breck. If you absolutely love groomers, go to Deer Valley. If you want trees, go to Steamboat. If every mountain is basically the same there is nothing memorable about it.

One of the best trips was going to Tremblant during the strike year in 2006. Not much was groomed, they hadn't made snow, there were few guests, but there were lots of bumps. The place was a total throwback. It turned out to be a lot of fun. 

So it's completely fine if some places ban snowboarders. Frankly I'd love to go to a place that banned everyone who wasn't into park (so twin-tip skis, snowboards, or GTFO). Or was racing only, maybe a small place but there were 10 trails that had gates on them instead of just 1.


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