# 2010-11 Ticket Prices



## billski (Sep 7, 2010)

MRG launches the first shot.  Holiday prices up from 66 to 69 - 4.5% increase.  
Magic is up to 59 from 56 for a Holiday ticket.
I got no stinkin' raise...


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## deadheadskier (Sep 7, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I love MRG.  I recognize that they need to make hay when the sun shines due to lack of snowmaking and what not.  I still think $69 is a bit outrageous for a mountain that has so little overhead.


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## WJenness (Sep 7, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love MRG.  I recognize that they need to make hay when the sun shines due to lack of snowmaking and what not.  I still think $69 is a bit outrageous for a mountain that has so little overhead.



Do they publish detailed financials?

I'm wondering how much of their overhead is insurance costs... I wonder if they pay significantly more than similarly sized 'resorts' due to their lack of snow-making and grooming.

The additional impact of not having high-margin lodging to recoup those costs probably has a significant impact as well.

-w


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## deadheadskier (Sep 7, 2010)

Just an arm chair QB here looking at a mountain with 4 lifts, non of them highspeed, miminal to no snowmaking, minimal grooming and limited F&B operations.  Just as an example, I think Loon had a holiday rate of $72.  You look at all that goes into running that operation compared to MRG and it doesn't quite align with the ticket prices.  Not that I'd prefer Loon.   

When I worked at Snowshoe, a resort with massive lodging operations, the profit from that division was very small as a lot of the money got returned to those who owned the units.  F&B was a break even amenity.  90% of the profit came from ski area operations.  

I'm sure many MRG skiers are fine with that price if it's designed to limit traffic on the hill.


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## drjeff (Sep 7, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm sure many MRG skiers are fine with that price if it's designed to limit traffic on the hill.



I think we have a key component of that figure there.  The cult of MRG in a way is almost helping to remove some of what made MRG what it is today, and I'm pretty sure that the folks making those descisions nowadays are aware that if they keep the prices substantially below that of their "competition" that the amount of extra traffic they'll get will have a negative impact on their snow surfaces, and that snow surface quality impact they may be facing isn't worth the extra $$ that they could bring in.

With a day ticket price like that, I bet that on a "good" day that many folks who might be thinking MRG or Jay might very well head to Jay for the extra runs they'll be able to get per day for close to the same $$


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## mondeo (Sep 7, 2010)

drjeff said:


> I think we have a key component of that figure there. The cult of MRG in a way is almost helping to remove some of what made MRG what it is today, and I'm pretty sure that the folks making those descisions nowadays are aware that if they keep the prices substantially below that of their "competition" that the amount of extra traffic they'll get will have a negative impact on their snow surfaces, and that snow surface quality impact they may be facing isn't worth the extra $$ that they could bring in.
> 
> With a day ticket price like that, I bet that on a "good" day that many folks who might be thinking MRG or Jay might very well head to Jay for the extra runs they'll be able to get per day for close to the same $$


At the same time, though, if you drop the price and get more traffic, then at some point the quality of the product dimishes to the point that it doesn't warrant the new lower price. Reducing the price will have the effect of reducing demand. No one wins.

And before somebody quibbles about that last point:
http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-quantity-demanded-and-demand/


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## WWF-VT (Sep 7, 2010)

With all the deals and options at MRG it's not likely that many people are walking up to the ticket booth and paying $69.00.


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## Geoff (Sep 7, 2010)

WWF-VT said:


> With all the deals and options at MRG it's not likely that many people are walking up to the ticket booth and paying $69.00.



The big walkup holiday day ticket price is throwing a bone to the co-op shareholders.   They mostly have season passes and don't want to be flooded with Sugarbush riff-raff.   If I skied there, I'd want holiday day tickets to be $1,000


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## riverc0il (Sep 7, 2010)

billski said:


> MRG launches the first shot.  Holiday prices up from 66 to 69 - 4.5% increase.
> Magic is up to 59 from 56 for a Holiday ticket.
> I got no stinkin' raise...


Both are $39 mid-week, though. IMO, MRG should increase weekend prices substantially to match demand on weekends. They compensated with cheap mid-week rates in an attempt to bring in more skiers on the slow days. Mad Cards still average out to like $43 a day or something cheap like that. Magic has three day cards, too. Lots of discounts to take advantage of at both of these areas.

I was wondering when the annual update to the billski spreadsheet would be made. I checked around earlier this week and noticed most sites had not updated their sites for the new season (though I was looking for deal info not weekend holiday rates).


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## riverc0il (Sep 7, 2010)

Geoff said:


> The big walkup holiday day ticket price is throwing a bone to the co-op shareholders.   They mostly have season passes and don't want to be flooded with Sugarbush riff-raff.   If I skied there, I'd want holiday day tickets to be $1,000


Totally off the mark.


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## riverc0il (Sep 7, 2010)

WJenness said:


> Do they publish detailed financials?


http://www.madriverglen.coop/minutes/?Page=&dir=./annual

Technically on the Shareholder part of the site but it is public. Sorry to keep beating the dead horse folks but I'll say it again despite some folks seeming to not believe me: MRG is not raking in the profits. The Coop has good years and bad years. It breaks even some years, it looses money some years, and some years it makes a profit. But all of the revenues in excess of expenses are reinvested into the area to help maintain and preserve the existing infrastructure. The Single Chair rebuild was financed by donations, not profits. New share sales count towards revenues that help fund the area. I think the weekend/holiday rate hike was long overdue, both from a financial perspective and to adjust for demand.

And all that said, if we measure a ski area's ticket value by high speed lifts and infrastructure, Killington is justified in what it is charging whereas places like MRG and Smuggs are over priced. To hell with that logic. MRG has some of the best terrain in the eastern USA. I measure pricing based on value and quality of the product. MRG is second to none in that category even with the higher prices. Just buy a Mad Card if you are concerned about the higher prices but still want to ski MRG.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 7, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> And all that said, if we measure a ski area's ticket value by high speed lifts and infrastructure, Killington is justified in what it is charging whereas places like MRG and Smuggs are over priced. To hell with that logic. MRG has some of the best terrain in the eastern USA. I measure pricing based on value and quality of the product. MRG is second to none in that category even with the higher prices. Just buy a Mad Card if you are concerned about the higher prices but still want to ski MRG.



No doubt MRG is top 5 in the East for terrain.  I don't think my logic is wrong though when you look at the overall overhead compared to other areas and the price they charge to support that overhead.

Maybe that $69 weekend rate is right and they need to drop the midweek price for the product down to Saddleback levels to manage their finacials better based on volume.  I've skied there only twice in the past 5 years, both on weekends.  Line for the single was 30 minutes.  For the most part, I don't mind that line at all and walk away more than satisfied. However, I've never paid the full walk up rate there. Have to say  that if I paid the full rate of $69, I'd probably wonder why I wasn't paying $13 more down the street at Sugarbush to get in twice as much skiing in my day.  Quantity does matter to me more these days than times past when I was able to ski more.  When you only can get out 20-25 days a year, you don't want to spend much of that time in line at premium prices.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 7, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Both are $39 mid-week, though. IMO, MRG should increase weekend prices substantially to match demand on weekends. They compensated with cheap mid-week rates in an attempt to bring in more skiers on the slow days. Mad Cards still average out to like $43 a day or something cheap like that. Magic has three day cards, too. Lots of discounts to take advantage of at both of these areas.
> 
> I was wondering when the annual update to the billski spreadsheet would be made. I checked around earlier this week and noticed most sites had not updated their sites for the new season (though I was looking for deal info not weekend holiday rates).



was unaware the midweek product was already priced so low when I made the comments above.

guess I just need to get a job that affords me a life that allows for more midweek time off.


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## Geoff (Sep 8, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Totally off the mark.



Why is it "totally off the mark"?   MRG jacks up holiday prices to limit crowds.   As a co-op where the shareholders typically have season passes, this is what the owners want.


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## mondeo (Sep 8, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Why is it "totally off the mark"? MRG jacks up holiday prices to limit crowds. As a co-op where the shareholders typically have season passes, this is what the owners want.


While both statements may be true, that doesn't mean that's the reason. What it comes down to is that $69 is if anything too low a price. If $69 holiday tickets means 30 minute lift lines, then the cost probably isn't that big of an issue to the people coming and they could probably jack it up a little bit more and not get that big a drop in sales.


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## Mr MRG (Sep 8, 2010)

WWF-VT said:


> With all the deals and options at MRG it's not likely that many people are walking up to the ticket booth and paying $69.00.


BINGO!!!! 
It is very interesting to read this thread - and get the perspecitve of the skiing community out there. Alpine Zone provides a great service in that regard.

You are correct that not too many folks actually pay the holiday rate.  MRG has an unusually high percentage of skiers who have season passes or utilize our Mad Card ticket options. Our philosophy is that if you in some way commit to us in the pre-season we will reward your loyalty and you can ski at a very reasonable price (Mad Cards get you on the hill for only about $46 a day - 3 unrestricted tickets that are transferable - can't beat that with a stick!). If you "cherry pick" us when the skiing is great during a busy holiday period sorry you'll have to pay more and frankly $69 on a holiday still ain't all that bad in comparison to the other ski areas out there. On top of that we offer a ton of other great value options throughout the year. Any midweek day all season is only $39 a day, no coupons, no hassles, just everyday low prices (YIKES I sound like Wal Mart!). This on top of the special day where you can ski 2 for 1 and you can even ski on the last Tuesday in January for a mere $3.50 (our 1948 lift ticket price to celebreate our anniversary each season). Add to this the fact that we offer FREE season passes to kids age 12 and under with the purchase of a Family Mad Card or any season pass.  I honestly can't imagine how much less expensive we could possibly make it for folks and still be remotely sustainable.

It is also interesting to hear the comparisons with other ski areas. Yes it is true that our overhead is lower than most, however we have very limited revenue streams. We make hay on tickets and passes; the food and beverage, rentals, ski school and ski shops combined represent a relatively small percentage of our total revenues. We don't own a single lodging unit, we have never sold any real estate, have never developed a fractional ownership scheme of any kind and simply must make it on tickets and passes. There are not too many examples of ski areas out there that must survive on the revenue streams that we are limited to.  

We are trying to be sustainable for the long-term by bucking nearly every conceivable conventional wisdom in the industry - trust me we are not rolling in dough and gouging skiers to line our pockets. The ski industry is a VERY tough one and its competitive out there. Of course we look at what our competitors are doing and try to react accordingly, however our Co-opownership structure limits what we can do in many cases. Keep in mind that well over 2,000 skiers have banded together to buy MRG so that we can collectively protect and preserve the unique ski experience offered here at MRG. They didn't buy into it to get free skiing or make a killing on their "investment". MRG is a labor of love for our team here and for the skiers who call it home and we all work very hard to make sure that MRG will be here for generations to come.

As an aside I find it interesting that folks keep talking about our lift lines. Sure with our limited uphill capacity we do get lift lines from time to time. However a half hour lift line is a fairly rare occurance here outside of a few weekends a year. And yes very occaisonally the lift lines can approach the 45 minute level on the Single but again that is a once or twice a year occurance and generally that is only for peak parts of the day 10-12 and 1 to 3. Arrive early, ski late, eat lunch early or late and you can get more than your fill of skiing in on those few busy days.  That being said one must also keep in mind that because of our limited uphill capacity your time on the trails is relatively secluded. For me (and for many of our fans) I'd rather wait a bit on a lift line so that I can have the trails to myself when coming down. I'd take that kind of experience over the human pinball I have experienced at other areas with all those fancy detachable lifts. My Mom always told me that "the best things in life are worth waiting for" and a large enough niche of skiers out there seems to agree with my dear Mother. You may not agree with that and that's OK, there are plenty of other wonderful ski areas for you to choose from, MRG is a niche area that doen't try to be everything for everyone. We know our strengths and try to stay within ourselves and offer the kind of skiing that our owners have asked us to deliver.  Also keep in mind that 8 to 10 runs of 2,000 vertical feet of skiing on MRG's legendary terrain is more than many skiers want or can handle on a give ski day. 

One other thing I would like to add is that despite the rumors that are out there the Single Chair is NOT a slow lift. It is in fact the fastest fixed grip lift in North America (REALLY!). A mere 9 minutes on one lift to the top to access 2,000 verttical feet. There are not too many areas out there that even have 2,000 vertical foot lifts any more, most mountains generally require that you to take  2 or 3 lifts to get you to the "top". On a typical day you can get a ton of skiing here at MRG and you'll be sipping your Single Chair Ale in the pub at the end of the day knowing you have enjoyed plenty of great skiing for a good value and have the knowledge that you supported a unique organization committed to protecting and preserving a very special place. I'll get off my soap box now!

I hope that you can come to Mad River Glen at some point this season. For those of you who have never been here I encourage you to come experience it for yourself.  Whereever you ski I wish you an awesome season with a ton of snow! Take care and....


THINK SNOW!!!!

Eric


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## farlep99 (Sep 8, 2010)

I skied MRG for the first time last season for $3.50 in March.  Minimal lift lines, great conditions.  I'll never complain about their ticket prices.  I'd never have to pay $69 to ski there (I'd get a mad card) but if I did it'd be worth it anyway


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## billski (Sep 8, 2010)

Mr MRG said:


> BINGO!!!!
> It is very interesting to read this thread - and get the perspecitve of the skiing community out there. Alpine Zone provides a great service in that regard.
> I hope that you can come to Mad River Glen at some point this season. For those of you who have never been here I encourage you to come experience it for yourself.  Whereever you ski I wish you an awesome season with a ton of snow! Take care and....
> 
> ...



Eric, I love you guys.  You're not only honest, but transparent to match!  It's not fair to compare your business model to megamonolithiccapitalcorporateempire.  I love your "commit to us and we'll commit to you" mantra.

Now, with regard to lift lines, you'll see them everywhere on a powder day, which I suspect a select number of correspondents use as a benchmark.  I've waited 20-25 on the double on a pow day when the wind was blowin.  Didn't bother me.

Now, the single.  Meybee the problem is no snugglin' with the sweetie?  Meybee you shoulda been on the double  

BTW, my developing 10-year old simply loved the greens and blues - we spent all day on them and virtually had the place to ourselves.  Paradise may beget bragging rights, but the Birdland can equally be paradise to those who don't need to brag!

Sign me, 
Free Agent.  

Keep up the OUTSTANDING WORK Eric, staff and owners!


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## neil (Sep 8, 2010)

<insert MRG snowboard war here>


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## riverc0il (Sep 8, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Why is it "totally off the mark"?   MRG jacks up holiday prices to limit crowds.   As a co-op where the shareholders typically have season passes, this is what the owners want.


Everyone jacks up the price on the holidays. What about that tells you anything else? How do you know most shareholders typically have season passes? I don't nor do I know the stats on how many shareholders have season passes. But most of the shareholders I know have Mad Cards. A lot of mid-week only season pass holders probably are not happy about the higher weekend rates.... Lots of conjecture on your part and from what I have seen, I don't think you are seeing the entire picture.


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## riverc0il (Sep 8, 2010)

Holy crap, what a hyjack. Might I suggest a mod edit out everything after the first post as MRG Prricing Discussion or some such topic? :lol:


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## thetrailboss (Sep 8, 2010)

Back to the price discussion on everywhere but MRG....


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## JerseyJoey (Sep 12, 2010)

When conditions are good, and Eric will clearly let you know when that is (sign up for his daily email reports), there is no better bang for the buck than Mad River Glen.

Our home mountain is Killington as we own real estate there, but I can't remember the last season we haven't spent at least 7 or 8 days at Mad River. Even my kids are crazy about the place, and they will get free season passes there until they're 12, as opposed to Killington starting to charge them for junior passes (in the $700 range) at age 6.

Mad River is about as unique an experience as a ski area can get. If you haven't been, make sure you get there this season when conditions are good. Sign up for Erics daily emails in season and you will know exactly when it is and will be good. No marketing in his snow reports. If it sucks, he'll tell you just that. If it's good, he'll tell you that as well. His reports are the real deal. What you see is what you get.

How can you go wrong when you show up at 9am on a Thurday and a circa 1970's Dark Star is cranking from the lift house at the bottom, and a smokin Help>Slip>Franklins is cranking from the midstation. What's better than that? Go get some!!


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## billski (Sep 12, 2010)

Collegiate areas are holding their prices flat at last year's rate: Darmouth and Middlebury.

Ragged opted for an 8% increase, while Sunapee went up 3% and Wa-wa went up 4%..

Black Mt. NH took at 15% rise. then again, with one of the lowest rates ($45 on a holiday) in the east for 1000-foot skiing, nobody will blink!


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## tjf67 (Sep 12, 2010)

If they really want to buck the trend they should adjust ticket prices with conditions.  Push it up to a hundred the day after a dump.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2010)

billski said:


> Collegiate areas are holding their prices flat at last year's rate: Darmouth and Middlebury.
> 
> Ragged opted for an 8% increase, while Sunapee went up 3% and Wa-wa went up 4%..
> 
> Black Mt. NH took at 15% rise. then again, with one of the lowest rates ($45 on a holiday) in the east for 1000-foot skiing, nobody will blink!



$64 for Ragged this year.  hmmmm.  I think they were at $59 last year if I recall.  I know my Season Pass went up from $329 to $359.  The pass remains one of the best values around.  Lift tickes is a gamble for them.  I think Cannon is $66.  That's a lot more mountain for only two bucks more.


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## polski (Sep 12, 2010)

Can't help but throw in my $0.02 here.



deadheadskier said:


> I've skied there only twice in the past 5 years, both on weekends.  Line for the single was 30 minutes.  For the most part, I don't mind that line at all and walk away more than satisfied. However, I've never paid the full walk up rate there. Have to say  that if I paid the full rate of $69, I'd probably wonder why I wasn't paying $13 more down the street at Sugarbush to get in twice as much skiing in my day.


Having seen you ski DHS, you may well be able to accomplish 2x the skiing in a day. Not me.  I've never had a day end at MRG before I'm utterly exhausted, even with 20+ minute lift lines. More often, when not crowded, I'm waving the white flag and quitting before closing time with my quads bursting into flames. And even if it's a peak period I'm skiing with hardly anyone else on the slopes because of the limited uphill capacity - that, to me, is where the unique value lies, well worth the wait in line and the cost even if I were paying full freight.


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## billski (Sep 12, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> If they really want to buck the trend they should adjust ticket prices with conditions.  Push it up to a hundred the day after a dump.



From what I see, most destination resorts want you to book in advance, waaay in advance, and bundle in tickets with the deal in many cases.  So the variable rates would only affect riff-raff like me who don't decide until the last minute.  I think the first stab at variable rates is Liftopia, and resorts are experimenting.  

Raising rates really goes against the grain of tried-and-true marketing - you can always discount down, but raising prices is usually a no-no.  Kinda like my salary...   :-?


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## riverc0il (Sep 12, 2010)

polski said:


> Can't help but throw in my $0.02 here.
> 
> 
> Having seen you ski DHS, you may well be able to accomplish 2x the skiing in a day. Not me.  I've never had a day end at MRG before I'm utterly exhausted, even with 20+ minute lift lines. More often, when not crowded, I'm waving the white flag and quitting before closing time with my quads bursting into flames. And even if it's a peak period I'm skiing with hardly anyone else on the slopes because of the limited uphill capacity - that, to me, is where the unique value lies, well worth the wait in line and the cost even if I were paying full freight.


+1

I have never had my legs out lines at MRG. Never once have I walked away thinking "if only the lines had been shorter, I could have skied a few more runs..." Plus, MRG lines are amongst the most festive in social lift lines around. 8)


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2010)

I knew my opinion would be an unpopular one. :lol:

Being critical of the Holy Grail of Eastern Skiing goes over like a fart in church. 

My comments were based purely on price vs. infrastructure.  That is all.  You look at Sugarbush at $82 and see all of the HSQ's and grooming equipment and everything else and then you look at MRG $69 with it's overhead and it doesn't flush up.  The mountain is unbelievable.  The experience is one of a kind.  It's a place I very much love.  I guess a car comparison would be buying a cherry 68 Mustang for $40K or a new Audi S4 for $55K.  With the Audi it's easier to quanitify what you're paying for.

As for my comment about getting in twice as much skiing at Sugarbush.  Somewhat an exageration.  Last time I skied MRG, I think I took 11 runs with a couple of those coming off the double chair.  I was whipped.  But, that took a full day to do.  In general, I'm someone who cannot stand liftlines.  I'm slightly more tolerant of liftlines at MRG than anywhere else due it's charm, for lack of a better word.  That said, I'm at the mountain to ski, not wait in line.  Not that I'd EVER want more uphill capacity at MRG as it would trash the conditions way too fast.

Though Rivercoil, I can say my liftline experiences at MRG have not always been pleasant.   I believe I started a thread about one experience with the sense of entiltment I encountered by one pass holder there towards day ticket holders.   I remember it very well.  A guy was there with his young kid.  After 20 minutes in line for the single, the kid had to go to the bathroom.  He went and came back where his father was holding his place in line.  The pass holder demanded that both he and his son go to the back of the line, that it was wrong for him to hold his sons place.  Really lady???


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## Bumpsis (Sep 13, 2010)

I really do love skiing at MRG but the liftlines are a turn off. They may seem infrequent to the regulars who have easy access to the mountain, but quite often when I'm  in position to ski MR and the conditions are good, there always are substantial  lines. My patience does wear thin after 15 to 20 minutes of shuffling along in line.
This hike in walk up weekend rates actually makes it easier to weigh my options.


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## andyaxa (Sep 13, 2010)

Let's not forget to enter Powderhouse into the new season's pricing matrix. Still a five-spot as far as I know.


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## skiadikt (Sep 13, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love MRG.  I recognize that they need to make hay when the sun shines due to lack of snowmaking and what not.  I still think $69 is a bit outrageous for a mountain that has so little overhead.



not sure what "overhead" has to do it. many western ski areas have little to no snowmaking and DO make a ton of money from ski school, f&b and real estate yet are charging $80-90 for lift tickets.

regarding ticket prices, killington last season offered k50 tickets ($50). this season they're calling them k55 bumping the price to $55 (on pre-season ticket purchases of 4-10 days). their weekend ticket price bumped up to $84 ($86 peak) from $82.

btw from k's lift ticket page it says, "If you're planning on skiing or riding at the largest resort in the east for just one day, a single-day lift ticket is your best option." you think ...


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## skiingsnow (Sep 13, 2010)

skiadikt said:


> regarding ticket prices, killington last season offered k50 tickets ($50). this season they're calling them k55 bumping the price to $55 (on pre-season ticket purchases of 4-10 days). their weekend ticket price bumped up to $84 ($86 peak) from $82....



There is no minimum number of tickets you must buy, you can buy just 1 or 2 if you would like.


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## riverc0il (Sep 13, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I knew my opinion would be an unpopular one. :lol:
> 
> Being critical of the Holy Grail of Eastern Skiing goes over like a fart in church.
> 
> My comments were based purely on price vs. infrastructure.  That is all.  You look at Sugarbush at $82 and see all of the HSQ's and grooming equipment and everything else and then you look at MRG $69 with it's overhead and it doesn't flush up.


No worries about popularity, DHS. I just think most folks won't agree with your basis for comparison as it does not capture all of the differences. For example, you don't see a five level monstrosity with a honking missle silo when you drive up to MRG's base area. You see a couple of ski club buildings that have been there for almost or as long as the ski area. In other words, MRG doesn't get a large chunk of revenue from on slope bed base. It also does not get the volume of skiers and riders that the Bush gets. Look at it like Craft beer. Bud is high volume and has a reasonable price whereas better craft beers cost similar or more.... even though their overhead is lower so is their gross revenue and profitability after expenses due to less volume. I don't think an argument about price from the perspective of infrastructure is accounting for all the differences between the two areas.


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## riverc0il (Sep 13, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Though Rivercoil, I can say my liftline experiences at MRG have not always been pleasant.   I believe I started a thread about one experience with the sense of entiltment I encountered by one pass holder there towards day ticket holders.   I remember it very well.  A guy was there with his young kid.  After 20 minutes in line for the single, the kid had to go to the bathroom.  He went and came back where his father was holding his place in line.  The pass holder demanded that both he and his son go to the back of the line, that it was wrong for him to hold his sons place.  Really lady???


You have generalized the entire MRG pass holder base due to one ass hole?

I am not a season pass holder and have never seen anything like that.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> You have generalized the entire MRG pass holder base due to one ass hole?
> 
> I am not a season pass holder and have never seen anything like that.



You generalized the liftline experience.  I pointed out one unpleasent experience.  Where did I generalize?


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## riverc0il (Sep 13, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> You generalized the liftline experience.  I pointed out one unpleasent experience.  Where did I generalize?


I think there is a little bit of a difference between generalizing an entire population on one experience with one representative from that population versus my reporting on probably a hundred or so turns through the Single chair line. Can the Single chair line be downright miserable? I am sure it can be at some time and no doubt there are rude people in this world.

How about we flip it around: how many season pass holders at MRG have you passed that treated you pleasantly or at least did not make your experience worse? Pretty much all but one?


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I think there is a little bit of a difference between generalizing an entire population on one experience with one representative from that population versus my reporting on probably a hundred or so turns through the Single chair line. Can the Single chair line be downright miserable? I am sure it can be at some time and no doubt there are rude people in this world.
> 
> How about we flip it around: how many season pass holders at MRG have you passed that treated you pleasantly or at least did not make your experience worse? Pretty much all but one?



Again, where did I generalize?  I did not.  You said they have some of the more festive liftlines around or whatever.  My point was there are a-holes everywhere, even uber heady MRG.  I've skied at MRG probably ten or so times in my life.  I haven't walked away from there or anywhere else for that matter and said to myself, wow, I had a lot of fun in the liftline with some of the coolest strangers of any ski area.  :???:


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## deadheadskier (Sep 13, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I don't think an argument about price from the perspective of infrastructure is accounting for all the differences between the two areas.



We'll agree to disagree.

Here's apples to apples.  MRG vs Cannon / Wildcat.   All three areas lack any slopeside lodging.  Base facilities are minimal (though obviously less at MRG)  Cannon has a Tram, HSQ, considerable snowmaking/grooming.  Wildcat HSQ and the same with others.  They charge $66.

I do think the infrastructure argument is valid.  The ONLY reason MRG gets a pass is because of the terrain.  If you put the exact same infrastructure at Bolton Valley, a place that averages even more snow than MRG, you'd expect to pay $40.


----------



## riverc0il (Sep 13, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I do think the infrastructure argument is valid.  The ONLY reason MRG gets a pass is because of the terrain.  If you put the exact same infrastructure at Bolton Valley, a place that averages even more snow than MRG, you'd expect to pay $40.


Totally agree now that you are saying MRG gets a pass due to the terrain. My impression was you were using infrastructure as your sole base of criteria for MRG pricing, which I think would be unfair in exclusion of what makes the mountain special: its terrain and character.

And I misunderstood your previous post regarding the pass holder issue you had. You were in fact just proposing an experience in the liftline that was not all roses. My issue and subsequent posts were a misreading that you were suggesting pass holders at MRG have a sense of entitlement. It appears I misread and had a misunderstanding in that you had an experience with a single passholder that had a sense of entitlement and were not in fact generalizing all shareholders have a sense of entitlement. My bad on that misunderstanding.

:beer:


----------



## billski (Sep 16, 2010)

*More prices*

Holiday rate, adult, all day, walk up window rate

Last year, Resort Name, This year
51 Crotched 54
59 Ragged 64
68 Sunapee 70
68 Bromley 69
66 Smuggs 68
64 Jiminy 65

They will all go into my table in November.  This year I'm going to calculate the 5-year increase and then compare it to the CPI and my salary decrease! Should be pretty shocking   

What's up with Ragged big jump?

I never noticed that stores in Burlington and Montpelier sell $52 discount vouchers to Smuggs.  Is that new, or have I been napping again?


----------



## hammer (Sep 16, 2010)

billski said:


> Holiday rate, adult, all day, walk up window rate
> 
> Last year, Resort Name, This year
> 51 Crotched 54
> ...


Really...for such a jump at Ragged I'd expect a faster lift on Spear...

Even Crotched is a bit much for what you get.

Hope that there will be good deals on Liftopia.


----------



## billski (Sep 16, 2010)

I am really looking forward to the Vail and Stowe rates.  They were at 97 and 89 respectively.  Real Thriller coming....

And please, my annual disclaimer.  I do this just for shock value and because holiday rates are a little easier to compare than weekend peak rates - some resorts tend to mix up the offerings skewing the results.  You can extrapolate downwards if you like.  I prefer to hunt for deals instead.  Rest assured that I almost never, never, never pay these prices except in the most desperate of circumstances.  There's a saying, "If you paid full price, you didn't look hard enough."

These numbers are for entertainment value only.


----------



## hammer (Sep 16, 2010)

billski said:


> I am really looking forward to the Vail and Stowe rates.  They were at 97 and 89 respectively.  Real Thriller coming....
> 
> And please, my annual disclaimer.  I do this just for shock value and because holiday rates are a little easier to compare than weekend peak rates - some resorts tend to mix up the offerings skewing the results.  You can extrapolate downwards if you like.  I prefer to hunt for deals instead.  Rest assured that I almost never, never, never pay these prices except in the most desperate of circumstances.  There's a saying, "If you paid full price, you didn't look hard enough."
> 
> These numbers are for entertainment value only.


Buying  lift tickets at full price is kind of like buying a car at MSRP...if the demand is high enough you just have to but if you do your research most of the time you don't.


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## billski (Sep 16, 2010)

Food for thought:

CPI Inflation: 1 year: 2%, 5 years, 12%

Mass. Non-farm labor 12-month pay increase 0.6%
VT. Non-farm labor 12-month pay increase -0.7%
CT. Non-farm labor 12-month pay increase -0.1%


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## snoseek (Sep 16, 2010)

Good luck finding a discount for a one day ticket at Vail. I like skiing Vail but would only ski there with a pass or a discount. The only discount I ever came across was passholders getting me one of their discounts. They only get like four per year I beleive. Steamboat and Telluride are really tough also. The good stuff out there is at the smaller resorts, the price is dramatically cheaper also.

Vails break even rate with the Epic pass must be like 7 days.


----------



## billski (Sep 16, 2010)

snoseek said:


> Good luck finding a discount for a one day ticket at Vail.


  People call the ticket price at Vail ridiculous, but given the vast amount of terrain and snow and trail quality it's really a good value, compared, acre for acre, lift for lift with most other areas.  

Comparing Vail to Stowe just for yucks, skiing-wise only, there are probably five Stowes within Vail.  485  vs 5,000 acres for 8 bucks more.

The place where it gets ridiculous is in lodging and food.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 16, 2010)

hammer said:


> Really...for such a jump at Ragged I'd expect a faster lift on Spear...
> 
> Even Crotched is a bit much for what you get.
> 
> Hope that there will be good deals on Liftopia.



My understanding in talking with a few folks at Ragged last season is that with the credit market being what it is, getting financing for new lifts is tough.  With Ragged having a history of near collapse, they'd probably have to show some very strong financials to get a bank to hop on board with what would probably be a $4M lift.  

Since the Utah based parent company took over, the mountain has seen increased skier visits every year.  I think $64 is a gamble.  If I were day pass purchasor, I'd probably be more inclined to spend $66 and ski Cannon.  

We'll see how it shakes out.  The Spear lift definitely does suck.  In my dreams its a HSQ and Showboat underneath it is the best seeded bump run in Southern NH.


----------



## Puck it (Sep 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> My understanding in talking with a few folks at Ragged last season is that with the credit market being what it is, getting financing for new lifts is tough. With Ragged having a history of near collapse, they'd probably have to show some very strong financials to get a bank to hop on board with what would probably be a $4M lift.
> 
> Since the Utah based parent company took over, the mountain has seen increased skier visits every year. I think $64 is a gamble. If I were day pass purchasor, I'd probably be more inclined to spend $66 and ski Cannon.
> 
> We'll see how it shakes out. The Spear lift definitely does suck. In my dreams its a HSQ and Showboat underneath it is the best seeded bump run in Southern NH.


 
They really should make the culvert pipe go all the way across the run.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 16, 2010)

Puck it said:


> They really should make the culvert pipe go all the way across the run.



burying that stream there and on Flying Yankee should definitely happen.  They have to blow a crazy volume of snow to cover those two sections of trail up.


----------



## Puck it (Sep 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> burying that stream there and on Flying Yankee should definitely happen. They have to blow a crazy volume of snow to cover those two sections of trail up.


 

Forgot that it ran across Flying Yankee too.  That is a good run when it is bumped up.  That was a few years ago.


----------



## hammer (Sep 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> My understanding in talking with a few folks at Ragged last season is that with the credit market being what it is, getting financing for new lifts is tough.  With Ragged having a history of near collapse, they'd probably have to show some very strong financials to get a bank to hop on board with what would probably be a $4M lift.
> 
> Since the Utah based parent company took over, the mountain has seen increased skier visits every year.  I think $64 is a gamble.  If I were day pass purchasor, I'd probably be more inclined to spend $66 and ski Cannon.
> 
> We'll see how it shakes out.  The Spear lift definitely does suck.  In my dreams its a HSQ and Showboat underneath it is the best seeded bump run in Southern NH.


FWIW SkiNH passes are $53 for Ragged and $43 for Crotched...and they are good on weekends and holidays.


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## SKITODIE (Sep 16, 2010)

billski said:


> From what I see, most destination resorts want you to book in advance, waaay in advance, and bundle in tickets with the deal in many cases.  So the variable rates would only affect riff-raff like me who don't decide until the last minute.  I think the first stab at variable rates is Liftopia, and resorts are experimenting.
> 
> Raising rates really goes against the grain of tried-and-true marketing - you can always discount down, but raising prices is usually a no-no.  Kinda like my salary...   :-?




I am new here, and own a hotel/lodge In Lake Placid/Saranac Lake. I would have to say, as an owner of a resort... you are correct. The issue is the Mountains and their budgets, they no longer GIVE away the tickets to hotels, so it is more difficult for a resort to offer an amazing rate and not have a loss. Book in advance means quanity for the hotel, which in exchange justifies the loss, bc you break even. If only the mountains thought that way. We try to bundle up what ever we would want in a stay, make it worth the trip and fun. We WILL give last minute deals this year for bookings bc, most who REALLY ski, dont book in advance, they book when and where it snows... I think I would gain a valued guest by booking this way. Thats the difference between small and big business though...


----------



## billski (Sep 16, 2010)

SKITODIE said:


> I am new here, and own a hotel/lodge In Lake Placid/Saranac Lake. I would have to say, as an owner of a resort... you are correct. The issue is the Mountains and their budgets, they no longer GIVE away the tickets to hotels, so it is more difficult for a resort to offer an amazing rate and not have a loss. Book in advance means quanity for the hotel, which in exchange justifies the loss, bc you break even. If only the mountains thought that way. We try to bundle up what ever we would want in a stay, make it worth the trip and fun. We WILL give last minute deals this year for bookings bc, most who REALLY ski, dont book in advance, they book when and where it snows... I think I would gain a valued guest by booking this way. Thats the difference between small and big business though...



Good perspective.  What is interesting is the enlightened resorts that allow you to purchase your tickets off-site at a slight discount.  I just spoke with a hotel in Sandy UT yesterday about exactly that- they have them.    In the northeast, it's usually at the ski shops closer to the metro areas, but I see no reason not to let off-site lodging like yours sell them.  It's a win win for you and the mountain.  I see off-mountain sales at many hotels in the west, in my direct experience, Colorado, Tahoe and Utah.  I have been known to buy my ticket from the hotel desk the night before.  It's not a huge savings, but for someone who has not seen a raise in five years, every dollar counts.

I always figured yield management was a well-tuned science both at airlines and hotels.  Maybe BnB is different.  If you've got openings at the last minute, drop the rate, better than an empty room? If you anticipate a full house or expect high demand, keep the rate high.  Kinda like Priceline without the Priceline?


----------



## SKITODIE (Sep 16, 2010)

billski said:


> Good perspective.  What is interesting is the enlightened resorts that allow you to purchase your tickets off-site at a slight discount.  I just spoke with a hotel in Sandy UT yesterday about exactly that- they have them.    In the northeast, it's usually at the ski shops closer to the metro areas, but I see no reason not to let off-site lodging like yours sell them.  It's a win win for you and the mountain.  I see off-mountain sales at many hotels in the west, in my direct experience, Colorado, Tahoe and Utah.  I have been known to buy my ticket from the hotel desk the night before.  It's not a huge savings, but for someone who has not seen a raise in five years, every dollar counts.
> 
> I always figured yield management was a well-tuned science both at airlines and hotels.  Maybe BnB is different.  If you've got openings at the last minute, drop the rate, better than an empty room? If you anticipate a full house or expect high demand, keep the rate high.  Kinda like Priceline without the Priceline?



Yes, As I said, they no longer GIVE them away, meaning say last year lift to WF was $79, hotel incentive was $72--- seriously. We ski UT every year and buy our ticket at the base of the Canyon (Sandy), great deals, but there is more of a market there, way higher demand. Lift prices at the mountain are less than the North east regular, which still blows me away! Shops can do that, lower cut the price. If a hotel in the northeast undersells a ticket with out a bundle or just on the fly, the mountain will no longer give your establishment tickets, which then kills your business and black balls you.
We havent posted our specials yet, waiting for the pricelist (posted and unoffic. post on this forum), but are going to move forward and offer 69-79 a person/ticket/night with a bunch of extras. Either way, it's a deal. As I said, the business may have a loss, but we love to see avid skiers and guests. It's the long haul a small business looks for.
As for your second statement, openings drop the rate... for sure, rather full than empty! Thats high season, which is summer here in LP. Our policy in winter, keep it low, all of the time, don't hustle anyone, thats shady. The deal is the deal, last minute or 5 months in advance. We post specials when we are low occupancy, but really not specials, just what we have anyway or what you would get if you called. Have to promote to get business, but it works out for everyone. And yes, holidays, peak, it is demand, as you said, like priceline... with out captain Kirk


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## riverc0il (Sep 16, 2010)

billski said:


> What's up with Ragged big jump?
> 
> I never noticed that stores in Burlington and Montpelier sell $52 discount vouchers to Smuggs.  Is that new, or have I been napping again?


Bill- You've been napping! Shocking from a discount skier such as yourself! I think the off site sales are a $15 discount. I need to investigate if they can be used any time or are only good same day. If they can be used any day, it would be worth picking one or two up in advanced if I have a hole in my discount pack for Smuggs. Same day won't work because shops aren't going to open much earlier than the mountain and none of the discount locations are near Smuggs (i.e. not a good option on a powder day if it is same day!).

Ragged: Who knows about that jump. They were already over priced, IMO. Collusion generally only happens behind closed doors. But just don't wink at your competitor and the sky is the limit (as long as customers keep paying that going rate. Going as in going through the roof!).

Ski areas can keep up with the Jones's and stay competitive as long as they don't jump too high each season. In other words, comparing quality of NH areas, Ragged is significantly over priced for its product. But it is a pretty similar price to many other big names so folks will likely assume it is in the same league. And less priced than the most expensive such as Loon and BW so perhaps even a bargain. Not our way of thinking but to the average skier actually paying walk up... I doubt they are going to loose many customers because that is the going rate for a lift ticket these days.


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## billski (Sep 17, 2010)

Truthfully. Smuggs has not been high on my hit list in recent years but I do enjoy sharing deals. 

All the vouchers I've ever picked up in shops, and that includes a lot of ski93. Have been good all season. Sometimes there are blackout dates but they are printed on the voucher. I usually just call the shop to check. 
Bill



riverc0il said:


> Bill- You've been napping! Shocking from a discount skier such as yourself! I think the off site sales are a $15 discount. I need to investigate if they can be used any time or are only good same day. If they can be used any day, it would be worth picking one or two up in advanced if I have a hole in my discount pack for Smuggs. Same day won't work because shops aren't going to open much earlier than the mountain and none of the discount locations are near Smuggs (i.e. not a good option on a powder day if it is same day!).
> 
> Ragged: Who knows about that jump. They were already over priced, IMO. Collusion generally only happens behind closed doors. But just don't wink at your competitor and the sky is the limit (as long as customers keep paying that going rate. Going as in going through the roof!).
> 
> Ski areas can keep up with the Jones's and stay competitive as long as they don't jump too high each season. In other words, comparing quality of NH areas, Ragged is significantly over priced for its product. But it is a pretty similar price to many other big names so folks will likely assume it is in the same league. And less priced than the most expensive such as Loon and BW so perhaps even a bargain. Not our way of thinking but to the average skier actually paying walk up... I doubt they are going to loose many customers because that is the going rate for a lift ticket these days.


----------



## frozencorn (Sep 17, 2010)

snoseek said:


> Good luck finding a discount for a one day ticket at Vail. I like skiing Vail but would only ski there with a pass or a discount. The only discount I ever came across was passholders getting me one of their discounts. They only get like four per year I beleive. Steamboat and Telluride are really tough also. The good stuff out there is at the smaller resorts, the price is dramatically cheaper also.
> 
> Vails break even rate with the Epic pass must be like 7 days.



Used to be able to snag 2-for-1 midweek a few years back with a coupon my buddies out there got at Arby's of all places. Of course, you had to go to Arby's but small price to pay for half-price Vail.


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## billski (Sep 17, 2010)

SKITODIE said:


> are going to move forward and offer 69-79 a person/ticket/night with a bunch of extras. Either way, it's a deal. As I said, the business may have a loss, but we love to see avid skiers and guests.



You are crazy.  I like deals maybe more than most, but I need all you guys in the ski business to stay IN business.


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## SKITODIE (Sep 17, 2010)

billski said:


> You are crazy.  I like deals maybe more than most, but I need all you guys in the ski business to stay IN business.



Crazy, how? A deal is a deal... We break even and have the best guests! Makes the job fun..


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## billski (Sep 17, 2010)

*evenStowe is holiding i*

Stowe is holding it's peak holiday, however they have added ALL Saturdays to the peak rate at 89 for this year.
Remember, if you get a FREE Stowe points card from your ski club, your day rate is $63 for non-holidays.

Telluride took at leap to $98 from $92, matching Vail's last year rate of $98.  

Waiting to hear that Vail charges a Benji for the day.


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## billski (Sep 23, 2010)

*Saddleback*

Saddleback has now posted their prices.  Up 2% YoY.

At this point, half the resorts have announced pricing.  The remainder are still pushing seasons passes.  

I am seeing a greater trend towards offering pre-purchasing quantities of lift tickets here in the Northeast.


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## riverc0il (Sep 23, 2010)

billski said:


> Saddleback has now posted their prices.  Up 2% YoY.
> 
> At this point, half the resorts have announced pricing.  The remainder are still pushing seasons passes.
> 
> I am seeing a greater trend towards offering pre-purchasing quantities of lift tickets here in the Northeast.


Not bad considering how much they have lowered their mid-week prices. What is it, $35 or $39, one or the other, any mid-week day.


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## billski (Sep 23, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Not bad considering how much they have lowered their mid-week prices. What is it, $35 or $39, one or the other, any mid-week day.


 
Saddleback $35 midweek (Wednesday - buy your ticket for 35, bring a friend for $10)
$50 for weekend.  Saddleback could be great shelter from the storm (on many levels) during the traditional blackout periods....


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## billski (Oct 8, 2010)

Killington weighs in at $86 peak holiday window rate #2 behind Stowe's unchanged 89.  Kmart's ticket prices have increased 25% in five years, while Stowe went up 17%.  The K55 deadline ist next friday Oct 15th, so hop to it!

Sunday River is the bad boy in the mix, coming in at #3, raising prices 34% in five years to $79.  Sugarloaf ain't far behind with a 26% increase over five years.


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## Riverskier (Oct 8, 2010)

billski said:


> Killington weighs in at $86 peak holiday window rate #2 behind Stowe's unchanged 89.  Kmart's ticket prices have increased 25% in five years, while Stowe went up 17%.  The K55 deadline ist next friday Oct 15th, so hop to it!
> 
> Sunday River is the bad boy in the mix, coming in at #3, raising prices 34% in five years to $79.  Sugarloaf ain't far behind with a 26% increase over five years.



If I am doing the math correctly, you are saying Sunday River's peak holiday window rate was $59 in 2005? If so, no way. $69 maybe.


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## billski (Oct 9, 2010)

Riverskier said:


> If I am doing the math correctly, you are saying Sunday River's peak holiday window rate was $59 in 2005? If so, no way. $69 maybe.



Yes way.  I've been tracking them for seven years now.  They took the big jump in 06-07

04-05 $57
05-06 $59
06-07 $67
07-08 $72
08-09 $77
09-10 $77
10-11 $79


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## mountainman (Oct 9, 2010)

Have only paid to go skiing once in my entire 30 + years of skiing. That was at Camelback. It's who you know and where you work. 
Ticket prices are a little up, but for what resorts have to offer it's still not bad. Compare to most professional sporting events for what you pay to go see and that's for 3 hours of entertainment. Please enjoy where ever you go, cause most areas do have something to offer.


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## billski (Nov 4, 2010)

*The numbers*

Everyone is out with prices except our standard hold-out Stratton.
For NH-MA-NY-VT-ME, the numbers look like this
Baseline: adult, full-day, all-access, holiday/high price, window rate:

1-year price change, 
Average increase: 8% 
Median increase: 2.7%
Range: 35 to zero 

5-year increase:
average: 31%
median: 25%
Range: 45 to zero

The top priced resorts are relatively unchanged.  Interesting how Stowe stayed middle of the road, while many of the larger increase have come from the smaller hills.

5 year price 
5-year price change, selected resorts
The 5-year data does not include all resorts (14 resorts were not tracked).  
Any area that is not shown here had no data or insufficient data to be included.

        Granite   Gorge   45%       Black, NH   41%       Mad River   38%       Sunday River   34%       Sugarbush   33%       Gunstock   33%       King Pine   32%       Cranmore   31%       Butternut   30%       Whiteface   30%       Ski Ward   29%       Saddleback   28%       McIntyre   28%       Wildcat   27%       Burke   27%       Pico   27%       Gore   26%       Sugarloaf   26%       Waterville   25%       Killington   25%       Shawnee Peak   24%       Cannon   24%       Windham Mountain   24%       Ragged   23%       Crotched   23%       Mount Sunapee   21%       Magic Mountain   20%       Hunter NY   20%       Jay Peak   19%       Middlebury   19%       Bretton Woods   19%       Jiminy Peak   18%       Okemo   17%       Bellayre   17%       Smugglers   17%       Stowe   17%       Bromley   17%       Loon   17%       Wachusett   17%       Bosquet   16%       Suicide Six   15%       Mount Snow/Haystack   14%       Dartmouth   0%

I will publish pretty pictures and charts when time allows in the coming weeks.


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## billski (Nov 30, 2010)

*Scoreboard: 5 year price increases*

OK, I've got all the price data compiled now.  I'll start rolling out the data and updating the tables on my web pages later today.
Here is the 5 year increase in ticket price for selected Northeast resorts.

These are adult, all-day, all-access, full-price walk-up window, Holiday or weekend rate whichever is higher.

The average and median previously cited were erroneous, since they included outlier resorts that had abnormal business conditions, or in one case, where the historical data was in error.   Outliers have been removed, and erroneous data corrected.

           [FONT=&quot]Resort[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]State[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5 yr change [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Granite Gorge[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]45%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Black, NH[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]41%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mad River[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sunday River[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]ME[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sugarbush[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Gunstock[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]King Pine[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Cranmore[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bolton Valley[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Butternut[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]MA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Whiteface[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Ski Ward[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]MA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Saddleback[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]ME[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]McIntyre[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Wildcat[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Burke[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Pico[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sugarloaf[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]ME[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Gore[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]


Waterville[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Killington[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]*AVERAGE & MEDIAN: 24%*

Shawnee Peak[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]ME[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Cannon[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Windham Mountain[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Ragged[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Crotched[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mount Sunapee[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Magic Mountain[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Hunter NY[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Pats Peak[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Jay Peak[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Middlebury[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bretton Woods[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Jiminy Peak[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]MA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Okemo[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bellayre[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Smugglers[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Stowe[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bromley[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Loon[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Stratton[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Wachusett[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]MA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bosquet[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]MA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Suicide Six[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mount Snow/Haystack[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]VT[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Dartmouth[/FONT]
         [FONT=&quot]NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0%[/FONT]​


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## billski (Nov 30, 2010)

*One Year Increase*

[FONT=&quot]Resort[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yr-Yr   Change[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Saddleback[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22.5%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Granite Gorge[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15.4%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Pico[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.6%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sugarbush[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.3%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]McIntyre[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7.4%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Stratton[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6.3%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]King Pine[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.8%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Middlebury[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.8%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Gore[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.2%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Pats Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.8%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Wachusett[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.8%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Suicide Six[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.5%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Burke[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.3%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Jiminy Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.2%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mad River[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.1%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Gunstock[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.1%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Cannon[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.1%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Waterville[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.1%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Jay Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.1%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mount Sunapee[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bromley[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.0%[/FONT]​ *[FONT=&quot]AVERAGE[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]2.6%[/FONT]*​             [FONT=&quot]Okemo[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2.6%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Shawnee Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1.9%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Stowe[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Killington[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Whiteface[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sunday River[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sugarloaf[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mount Snow/Haystack[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bretton Woods[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Loon[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Smugglers[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Wildcat[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Windham Mountain[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bolton Valley[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Hunter NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Ragged[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Magic Mountain[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Cranmore[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Butternut[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bellayre[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Crotched[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Ski Ward[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Dartmouth[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Black, NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0.0%[/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bosquet[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]-7.5%[/FONT]​


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## billski (Nov 30, 2010)

*'10-11 Prices*

[FONT=&quot]Resort[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10-11 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Stowe[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         89 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Killington[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         86 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sugarbush[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         84 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Stratton[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         84 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Whiteface[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         82 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Okemo[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $       81 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sunday River[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         79 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mount Snow/Haystack[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         79 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Sugarloaf[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         77 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Gore[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         77 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bretton Woods[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         76 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Loon[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         76 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Wildcat[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         70 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mount Sunapee[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         70 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Mad River[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         69 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Gunstock[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         69 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Waterville[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         69 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Jay Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         69 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bromley[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         69 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Windham Mountain[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         68 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Smugglers[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         68 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Cannon[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         67 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Burke[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         66 [/FONT]​ *[FONT=&quot]MEDIAN[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot] $         65 [/FONT]*​             [FONT=&quot]Hunter NY[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         65 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Jiminy Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         65 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bolton Valley[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         64 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Ragged[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         64 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Pico[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         62 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Butternut[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         60 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Suicide Six[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         60 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Cranmore[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         59 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Magic Mountain[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         59 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Shawnee Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         56 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Pats Peak[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         56 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Wachusett[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         56 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Crotched[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         54 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Bellayre[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         54 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Saddleback[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         50 [/FONT]​             [FONT=&quot]Black, NH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] $         45 [/FONT]​


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## Smellytele (Nov 30, 2010)

*?*

Does anyone on this site ever pay full price for a single day ticket to ski areas in the east?


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## zinger3000 (Nov 30, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> Does anyone on this site ever pay full price for a single day ticket to ski areas in the east?



I've never paid more than $50 for a lift ticket.

It's helpful that my wife and her parents always ask me for a wish list for Christmas, and one of the items is always a gift card to a ski area I've never been to before.  I also save by taking advantage of promotions such as Price Chopper's Ski Any 3 book, value cards, early season, late season, midweek skiing.


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## billski (Nov 30, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> Does anyone on this site ever pay full price for a single day ticket to ski areas in the east?



I'm sure you know by now these data are for sport, and for rainy days with nothing better to do.


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## Black Phantom (Nov 30, 2010)

billski said:


> I'm sure you know by now these data are for sport, and for rainy days with nothing better to do.



Have you ever thought of getting AT gear and effectively "dropping out" of the whole lift ticket game?

You have a ticket to K if/when you want to come up.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 30, 2010)

billski said:


> Collegiate areas are holding their prices flat at last year's rate: Darmouth and Middlebury.
> 
> Ragged opted for an 8% increase, while Sunapee went up 3% and Wa-wa went up 4%..
> 
> Black Mt. NH took at 15% rise. then again, with one of the lowest rates ($45 on a holiday) in the east for 1000-foot skiing, nobody will blink!



Black Mountain still has some great deals, especially for college students:

January 3- 7, 10-14           College Fest $15 Lift Tickets

I know they'll be getting my business this season! 

Wildcat on the other hand... seems like no more college-student lift tickets... $70 for one day... or I can do 4 days the same week at black for $10 less than one day at the Cat :beer: I love Wildcat, but if Black has the snow, you can't beat the prices.


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## billski (Nov 30, 2010)

Black Phantom said:


> Have you ever thought of getting AT gear and effectively "dropping out" of the whole lift ticket game?



Yep.  Primary problem is I'm too lazy, getting a bit long in the tooth, and (minor reason) too cheap to buy any more gear.


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## Spaldingxc (Dec 10, 2010)

As far as Jiminy Peak goes, the $299 7/7 season pass is great because of night skiing every night till 10pm.
They are running a special offer on top of it for all college students. Siena has a group login that if you use, you get 2x 50% off day passes along with the pass. You don't even have to be a Siena student to use it (just have to be in college)
Anyway, might as well share the love. Here is the login to use:
Username: Siena
Pass: jfarley

https://www.jiminy.com/e-commerce/grplogin.aspx

Hope to see you all on the slopes.


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## billski (Dec 12, 2010)

Eight years of prices


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## wa-loaf (Dec 12, 2010)

billski said:


> Eight years of prices



WTH is Beaver Mtn UT and how do your prices go from $33 to $99 in 5 years?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 12, 2010)

According to skitown, Beaver tickets are $40

http://www.skitown.com/resortguide/lifttickets.cfm/ut02/BeaverMountain


interesting list Bill.  the cost of skiing is certainly going up faster than my income.


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## billski (Dec 12, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> WTH is Beaver Mtn UT and how do your prices go from $33 to $99 in 5 years?


Good catch, thanks.  Looks like I hit it instead of Beaver Creek by mistake.  Fixed.


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## riverc0il (Dec 12, 2010)

billski said:


> Eight years of prices


What I find interesting are the new high priced resorts. Everyone knows Stowe is expensive and has been for a long time. Their 5 year % change according to Bill's data is only 17% increase in five years (same as Stratton, Okemo, and Loon amongst others that are known for higher priced tickets). Sugarbush and Sunday River really stand out for huge increases over the past 5 years at 33/34%. Another interesting thing is the sub-$50 lift ticket is in jeopardy of being lost for anything except feeder areas. 

So the big question is which resort is going to hit three digits first? Will the resorts level out at $99 for a few years due to negative connotations associated with being the first three figure day ticket? Or will one of the resorts proudly step up to that dubious distinction to better promote itself to the rich (if it costs that much, it must be the best!)?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 12, 2010)

surprised Deer Valet doesn't charge $100.  Seems like it draws plenty of clientele who would pay that kind of coin.

There are golf course that charge several hundred for a round, surprised the expensive ski resorts haven't gotten there yet.


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## billski (Dec 12, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> So the big question is which resort is going to hit three digits first?



In the east, who knows.  In the west, it will definitely be Vail, Steamboat or Aspen.  Vail charges $99 high rate for an advance purchase ticket.  No word yet on what the actual window rate will be.

What's not shown in these data is that resorts like Stowe are increasing their rates by eliminating things like midweek-weekend price differential all season.  Doing this let's them stay "under the radar" while continuing to raise prices in other operational areas.

Another interesting thing is how places like Stowe are playing the Liftopia game.  Stowe 's Liftopia rate is one dollar under its walk up window rate.  Nobody else has such a puny Liftopia price break.  It gets them in the discounting game, with very, very little skin off their bottom line.

Lastly, if you go back at least a good six years, you'll see the top five have pretty much remained constant.  The jockeying between 1, 2, 3, 4th places is largely academic.


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## Talisman (Dec 13, 2010)

billski said:


> In the west, it will definitely be Vail, Steamboat or Aspen.  Vail charges $99 high rate for an advance purchase ticket.  No word yet on what the actual window rate will be.



At $99 for a lift ticket and $20 to park, Vail is already North of a $100 in my book as there is little to no free parking at Vail for a day tripper.  Charging for parking seems to be the new way to grow revenue without scaring away customers.  I noticed this past weekend that Okemo has a $20 parking area that used to be free.


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## riverc0il (Dec 13, 2010)

Talisman said:


> At $99 for a lift ticket and $20 to park, Vail is already North of a $100 in my book as there is little to no free parking at Vail for a day tripper.  Charging for parking seems to be the new way to grow revenue without scaring away customers.  I noticed this past weekend that Okemo has a $20 parking area that used to be free.


During the early season, I noticed that Sunday River has "premium parking" during the morning in which they charge for the front row. I don't particularly care for this tactic. But as long as it is limited in scope and doesn't force the GP to walk too much further, I guess it is no big deal. It is certainly an indication that a given resort is going in a direction that is not in line with how I enjoy to see an area operate. But a deadbeat like me ain't exactly the target audience of big resorts trying to squeeze every last possible dollar from their "guests".

I don't think east coast areas could get away with not having much if any free parking. I doubt even Stowe could get away with that. 

Interesting how other industries devoted to recreation such as Amusement Parks all charge for parking. But Amusements Parks typically have break even points on Season Passes in the 2-3 day range.


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## billski (Dec 13, 2010)

Talisman said:


> Charging for parking seems to be the new way to grow revenue without scaring away customers.



I am waiting for the airline model to (shudder) take hold. At some point they will get serious about charge extra to cut the line, "first class service", or reserved tables at the lodge, or more first-hour privileges.  I can see it at the higher end establishments.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 13, 2010)

I've paid for the 'cut the line' privilege at amusement parks before.  But in that situation, you're talking 60 minute waits for main attraction rides.  Only time I've waited over 30 minutes in many moons was the single at MRG on a powder day.

Reserved tables in the lodge, suppose Wachusette is tapping that with their day suites.  I've only experienced the first hour option once at that was Sugarloaf this passed winter.  It was very cool.  If I enjoyed a higher pay grade, maybe I'd consider paying for it.


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## snoseek (Dec 13, 2010)

I have never once paid to park at Vail, they certainly don't make it easy though. 100 dollars is crazy, CRAZY! What's it like six days on the Epic Pass to break even?


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## snoseek (Dec 13, 2010)

Has anyone mentioned Telluride yet? 98 dollars for a day ticket, 1300 dollars for early purchase season pass, 1950 if purchased after October 31. Hell they even have a toddler season pass. Who the hell charges toddlers to ski?


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## billski (Mar 1, 2011)

Just for giggles:
Vail, 3/1/11

Today's Adult Lift Ticket price is $108 & Child price is $72.


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## oakapple (Mar 1, 2011)

I wonder how many people pay that rate? I haven’t been to Vail, but always had the sense that most visitors there will have purchased a multi-day package, most likely bundled with lodging. (Not that it’s exactly cheap that way, either.)


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