# Looking For Advice on Skis



## davidhowland14 (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm looking to buy new skis. I like to carve groomers/cruisers FAST, some bumps, Pow when I can get it, and trees. I also ski backcountry. I know I'm looking at an all mountain ski and I found a couple options. Opinions would be excellent. I also need new boots but haven't found anything specific yet.

*Ski #1* - Rossignol Bandit B78 with Axium 120 Bindings





I've skied the B74 and liked it alot. I noticed alot of chatter when turning hard, though. I really had to power into the turns to get rid of it.

*Ski #2* - Line Blend




Have never skied this, but have seen lots of good thigns about them in online reviews. They don't come with bindings at the places i've found, so I'd need to get bindings, too. I was thinking the same bingings (Pro2 Axium 120) that come with the Rossi bandits. I also like that these skis are twintips.

*Binding Choice 1* - Rossignol Axial2 120 Pro WB




I really know nothing about bindings.


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## riverc0il (Jan 22, 2008)

You pretty much covered every aspect of eastern skiing in your terrain preferences. Is there any type of skiing you do not like? :lol:

Kidding aside, what do you see yourself skiing the most. Separate question and note the difference, what terrain do you want to enjoy and get the most out of in your skiing?

You mention backcountry... are you considering a touring binding down the road? This presents the issue of whether you might want to get a flat ski and avoid binding systems just in case you want to change the binding down the road. The other option is to just buy another ski if you decide to mount a touring binding.

You specifically mention fast cruising and groomers, so my thoughts instantly gravitate towards mid-fats more groomer oriented such as a Volkl AC 30/40. I imagine the Fischer and Head offerings in this class would be good to consider as well, though I am unfamiliar with specific models.

Best thing to do would be to go to a demo day that offers a lot of different brands and try out the mid-fats from all the major companies. Try a few different sizes too if you are in between. You will find a lot more answers that fit your needs at a demo day than you will online.


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## andyzee (Jan 22, 2008)

Steve, what is a flat ski?


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## ckofer (Jan 22, 2008)

Yeah, what he said. Unless you have tons of money and then you should buy a pair of every kind with a biga$$ trailer to haul them all.


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## Brettski (Jan 22, 2008)

My Opinion...since you asked...

no one ski does all things well

You want to ski bumps, get a bump ski...my dynastars verticals

You want back country...get my Rockets

You want carvers...volkl supersports

All mountain?  All the above


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## davidhowland14 (Jan 22, 2008)

The only thing I really don't like and don't see myself getting into is the park. I pretty much like everything else. I don't see touring bindings down the road, really. I'm also planning right not on college out weest and I'd like to be able to take these skis with me.


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## riverc0il (Jan 22, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Steve, what is a flat ski?


Flat means no integrated binding that forces you to only use a certain binding. Most systems have rails and crap so you can not mount other bindings, such as touring.


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## riverc0il (Jan 22, 2008)

Brettski has the right idea, but someone looking into college is going to have a hard enough time buying one ski, let alone two. If you are looking into college out west, might as well go with a larger mid-fat perhaps around 85ish in the waist. Bumps and railing the groomers on hard pack tend to indicate characteristics that are not compatible, so you'll need to make a choice there. With a so call "all mountain mid-fat" you are going to have to compromise and sacrifice, it is the nature of a one ski quiver and there is no do it all ski. Based on everything you have wrote so far, I would be looking at the Volkl AC40 but there are still lots of unanswered questions. You need to try some skis out and get a feel for what you like and what ski best meets your needs, technique, style, etc. Good luck.


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## ccskier (Jan 22, 2008)

Atomic, can't go wrong.  Check out the sweet daddy.  

http://www.atomicsnow.com/int/products/alpin/ski/daddies/sweet-daddy.html

I have the Snoop Daddy's a better fit for the conditions I ski in.  Don't bother with with the metron series if you plan to ski off-piste.  They are junk, I went through 3 pairs of m9's in 2 years, bases and edges are junk, can't handle rocks, stumps or any other objects you may encounter


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## andyzee (Jan 22, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Flat means no integrated binding that forces you to only use a certain binding. Most systems have rails and crap so you can not mount other bindings, such as touring.


 

Thanks, I noticed that for the first time this week and had no clue.


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## davidhowland14 (Jan 22, 2008)

thanks rivercoil. I am gonna look at some demo days and see what I think. I demoed the Rossi B74s and really liked 'em. If I had to choose bumps or groomers, i'd pick the groomers, but I don't want a ski that'll cripple me in the bumps. I'll check out the Volkls and the atomic skis mentinaed above.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 22, 2008)

I would give a demo to a pair of Scott P3's.  One of the most fun skis I have ever used.  It is a real stiff twin tip.  Low 80's underfoot(depends on what length you ski.  (178 is 83)).  It does not have a huge shovel so it is decent in bumps.  High speed, low speed, it does it all for *ME*, But give it a try.  

I used to ski K2 PE's, and these are by far a much better ski.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 23, 2008)

I concur with the Atomic Metron comment, I've been an Atomic skiier for years, for some reason the Metrons arent holding up to the Atomic name...I'm looking for some Snoops


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## NESkibum (Jan 23, 2008)

The problem that you are going to run into when trying to get one ski to both carve on fast groomers and ski bumps is that a true high performance carving ski will be too stiff and have a too much sidecut for the bumps while a true bump ski probably won't carve and hold a turn the way you want it. Also if you are considering going to school out west and want to take the ski with you look for a ski that is atlease over 80 under foot to help you float. I think you'll find that the AC40 will be a great ski for most of the mountain but will be a bit stiff in the bumps. With that said here are a few skis that I have and do most things pretty well.

Volkl Mantra - I bought this ski last year and love it. I have been on everything from ice in the Northeast to powder and trees in Aspen. The ski is a bit wider compared to the AC40 but can still carve when you lay it on edge and will also float when you need it. The one thing it doesn't do well it are true bumps...it's just too stiff.

Dynastar Trouble Maker -  Better in the bumps than at high speeds. Will still hold an edge but can get a little squirley if you really get on it.

Armada AR6 - Middle of the road between the other two listed above. Could be your best option of the three. I little stiffer and wider than the trouble maker but definitely more narrow than the Mantra.

Salomon Gun - I skied this ski at Squaw last year and really liked it for the snow they have out there. Closer to the Mantra in width but definitely softer and more forgiving. Could still get on it when I wanted to but also smashed through crud when needed.

Best things to do like suggested above is demo a few pairs and see what you like before buying.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 23, 2008)

I have last year's B2's in a 174.  I'm not sure how they compare to a B74.  My opinion on this ski is that it's okay for carving groomers, okay for bumps, very good in crud and powder.  It is most certainly an all mountain ski.

That said, it leaves a lot to be desired when carving hardpack, doesn't seem torsionally stiff enough.  In hard snow bumps, the width of the tips can be a challenge.  I enjoy my 2003 B3's much better in the bumps.  

One thing to consider is buying this years equipment, next year.  Then if you shop right, you can get two pairs of boards for the price of one and have different equipment for the different types of conditions you plan on skiing.  As an example, this fall I got last years B2's with Rossi Axial bindings for $320 total including shipping.  Just a thought


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## WWF-VT (Jan 23, 2008)

I recently did a demo day each on the Rossignol Bandit B78 and Dynastar Legend 8000.  My current skis are Fischer RX8's.  

Both were similar mid-fats.  In my opinion the Rossignols were better on the groomers/hard pack and the Legends were rock solid in softer snow and the woods.  For a second pair of skis I am leaning toward the Legends


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## tjf67 (Jan 23, 2008)

davidhowland14 said:


> thanks rivercoil. I am gonna look at some demo days and see what I think. I demoed the Rossi B74s and really liked 'em. If I had to choose bumps or groomers, i'd pick the groomers, but I don't want a ski that'll cripple me in the bumps. I'll check out the Volkls and the atomic skis mentinaed above.




I take my AC4 in the bumps.  They are the same thing as the ac40 with a newer top sheet.  When the bumps are hard they are no good.  When they are soft you can make your own lins cause they are pretty good at bashing through things.   Look at the K-2 recons as well.  A little damper or more middle of the road.


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## davidhowland14 (Jan 23, 2008)

WWF-VT said:


> Both were similar mid-fats.  In my opinion the Rossignols were better on the groomers/hard pack and the Legends were rock solid in softer snow and the woods.  For a second pair of skis I am leaning toward the Legends



How were the legends on more solid stuff? I had been looking at those as well. Backcountry sells the legends w/out bindings, though.


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## WWF-VT (Jan 23, 2008)

davidhowland14 said:


> How were the legends on more solid stuff? I had been looking at those as well. Backcountry sells the legends w/out bindings, though.



Others have commented here that the Legends are not the best on real hard pack.  For fun I did take them down a NASTAR course at Sugarbush.  I was fortunate to ski the B78's and Legends on back to back soft snow days.


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## Greg (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm on 2007 Legend 8000s this year and love them. For my style, they're fine on the groomers and rock on any type of natural snow, uneven terrain, bumps. Haven't really dipped into the trees with them yet, but I'm sure they will excel there too. You're not going to find a ski that does it all. For me I can deal with any shortcomings the Legends apparently have on the groomers as that's the terrain I ski the least. In all honesty though, I think they ski pretty well on the flats too.


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## Brettski (Jan 23, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Brettski has the right idea,



I like this guy


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## davidhowland14 (Jan 23, 2008)

What would the difference be between the Legend 8000s for 2006-2007 and 2007-2008? I looked online and couldn't find any noticeable difference in specs.


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## Greg (Jan 23, 2008)

davidhowland14 said:


> What would the difference be between the Legend 8000s for 2006-2007 and 2007-2008?



Slightly wider shovel.


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## riverc0il (Jan 23, 2008)

If you love to rip groomers, the legend 8000 is not the ski. Especially if you are going out west, you want something more than 79 under you boots. Mythic Rider may be a good choice, again not good on groomers from my experience.

Volkl Mantra was mentioned which I had considered suggesting but can not do so in good conscious if you like bumps. Worst ski in the bumps I have ever tried. Worse by far than even the next least best ski in the bumps I can think of. But it certainly does rail the groomers. Not a good tight tree ski either, IMO.

Good comments from NESkibum.


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## davidhowland14 (Jan 23, 2008)

how would the 8000 perform on groomers. I don't need pro-level performance, here. How will it compare on groomers to the K2 Four? (Rental ski I used for most of my runs last weekend. Lame, i know) I had a blast on the K2s, so as long as the 8000 can equal that It'll be fine.


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## Greg (Jan 23, 2008)

davidhowland14 said:


> how would the 8000 perform on groomers.



I re-read your first post, "carve groomers/cruisers FAST". I tend to agree with Steve. There are probably better skis out there for that. As I said, for the way I ski groomers, sloppy short turns, the Legend is fine. If you want to carve fast, probably consider something else.


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## riverc0il (Jan 23, 2008)

8000 are certainly passable on groomers. They can make a passable carve if the snow is soft enough. Definitely suck hard core when it gets scarped down and icy. Not a good groomer ripper. This is not pro level performance, I do not even find the 8000 adequate when conditions are scraped or icy. They are passable until I get to natural snow. They do well on fresh groomed and softer snow, but not the type of stuff we typically have around New England. If you are going west, you definitely want wider any ways. That coming from someone that tries to avoid such blanket statements about gear as much as possible. But you did say you ski pow....


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## ccskier (Jan 23, 2008)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> I concur with the Atomic Metron comment, I've been an Atomic skiier for years, for some reason the Metrons arent holding up to the Atomic name...I'm looking for some Snoops



You will love the snoops, I beat the hell out of them and no issues.


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## kbroderick (Jan 28, 2008)

If you want to ski fast in all sorts of conditions, a B-Squad (er, I think it's the B104 this year) can handle it if you can.  The top end big-mountain skis seem to offer good on-trail and off-trail performance _if_ you're willing to put the effort into it and can ski well enough to turn them; they offer the float of an all-mountain ski and nearly the stability of a race ski.  On the downside, I don't think I've ever seen a high-end ski of this category sell cheap unless it had significant damage.

Also, have you considered buying used, and can you shop around for a while?  I picked up a pair of 06/07 K2 Anti-Pistes off SAC last summer for just under $200 and a pair of used GS skis in good condition for $150; add $125-150 for a decent set of bindings for the Anti-Pistes, and you're still looking at around $450-500 for two pairs of skis.  You do need to catch the right ski on sale in the right place (and I don't know when SAC will next be offering a midfat in a range of sizes), but that combo or something like it would easily take care of the groomer-carver quiver spot and the all-mountain midfat, for less than the retail price on one pair of new skis without bindings.  The tough part is that you need to have the ability to pull the trigger as soon as you see the right deal.

Oh, and I'd make sure you demo some recent midfats (85-105mm in the waist); after skiing the Anti-Pistes (98mm in the waist), I don't know why you'd need anything narrower except for racing and bumps.  I can deal with the Anti-Pistes in some bumps, but I'm not trying to zipperline on them (but I'm pretty sure it could be done, if I was good at that sort of thing).


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## snoseek (Jan 28, 2008)

I ski a fischer watau 101 in 192 length 80% of the time. They carve very stable turns on groomed snow and ski everthing well except for firm tight bumps. In powder they snake quickly through the deepest snow and tightest trees. These would work well for most snow, I think they would be fine in the east maybe 60% of the time. As far as flotation go, I think a lot of people make a big compromise by getting a short ski thinking it will be easier in the woods and this can be true except you sacrifice a lot of float with a shorter ski. Try demoing some long fat skis on a powder day and you'll see what I mean. I personally will never buy a g.s. type ski again.

Edit-Last year back east I primarily skied on a 4frnt msp and they did fine on every type of snow. they float pretty good (91 mm center) ski agressively, and are very light. They are also indestructable.


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## ta&idaho (Jan 29, 2008)

Not sure of your size, but these are a great deal and fit the billing: http://forums.alpinezone.com/22987-nordica-hot-rod-nitrous-xbs.html


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## bigbog (Feb 2, 2008)

*....East or West?*

Ya...from the topic's beginning & ditto of riverc0il's,
 If you're going to school out West...you gonna use your ski time up on groomers?
If you haven't skied out West it wouldn't hurt to demo a few skis of different widths to find out what works for you(mid-high80's are @low end)...or if you're looking for EC ski....carry on.

$.01


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## ski_resort_observer (Feb 3, 2008)

The assumption in this thread that everyday out west is a powder day does not really match up to reality.. While on average the west does get more snow, this season is definately in the epic catagory,  there are times when even out there your skiing on hardpack. 

In my 17 years at JH I remember plenty of times when a high pressure settled in the northern rockies and we didn't see a cloud for weeks, let alone snow. More times than not there was a warm period in January. During one of these "pineapple expresses" in a season when two  patrollers died in one season at JH, the second patrollers death was due to a avalanche on Moran Face after a week of rain.

When I owned a gallery on the Jackson Town Square one year we barely had snow by Xmas. Last year was a mediocre year at JH and in the first part of the season skiing was more like back east, with no snowmaking, than what you see on the brochures. They has a cold snap and since there was little snow to insulate, pipes were freezing up all over the valley. Remember 3 years ago in the PNW? 

When considering your new sticks I wouldn't worry about how they would ski out west, buy them in regards to how they perform in the NE. 

I bought some Rossi B2's last year in a demo sale for $288 with bindings and they work great.


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## riverc0il (Feb 3, 2008)

ski_resort_observer said:


> The assumption in this thread that everyday out west is a powder day does not really match up to reality.. While on average the west does get more snow, this season is definately in the epic catagory,  there are times when even out there your skiing on hardpack.


This definitely shows in the ski manufacturing world. It is difficult to find a good and true powder board since so many "powder skis" are really designed to be quivers of one. Take the Volkl Mantra which, IMO, performs better on groomers than powder despite a 93 waist.

I do not think the assumption here is that everyday is a powder day but rather that the powder days will be more frequent and better than typical East coast. A lot probably depends on where in the west the potential location would be as the west is a variable place and their are many mountains in the the west that do not fair as well as the best in the east (though of course there are many that fair twice as well if not more so than places in the east). The thrust of my suggestions is if going for a quiver of one, get something that is fatter than you would get on the east coast, but also something that will get you around all mountain and on the groomers as well.


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