# Bad Rumor Today at Alta (Sale of Interest in Snowbird to Cumming)



## thetrailboss (May 2, 2014)

My second ride on Collins was with an employee at Snowbird.  We were talking about Alta and Snowbird.  He commented that Dick Bass is getting on in age and that his family does not want to run the resort.  

"The latest rumor flying around is that John Cumming [POWDR] wants to buy Snowbird."


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## ScottySkis (May 3, 2014)

What think rhe Fummings guy will do badly ?


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## deadheadskier (May 3, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> What think rhe Fummings guy will do badly ?



everything

Just like he did at Killington (until he finally hired a GM who was able to talk some sense into him)


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## drjeff (May 3, 2014)

I heard that too, but the right of first refusal on the offer that the Bass family made ended May 1st and Cumming didn't get back to them until the 2nd


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## skiNEwhere (May 3, 2014)

Hope snowbird never sold any lifetime season passes


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## thetrailboss (May 3, 2014)

drjeff said:


> I heard that too, but the right of first refusal on the offer that the Bass family made ended May 1st and Cumming didn't get back to them until the 2nd



Yeah, exactly.  Minor detail 

Cummings, or his Dad, owns a house across the road from Snowbird.  I think it is Ted Johnson's old house (on my Snowbird Landmark Map it shows up as "Ted's House).  That's at least a connection or reason to suspect why this may be more than rumor.  

DHS hit it on the head...they take over, increase prices, shorten the season saying, "hey we've got to be sustainable, blah, blah, blah."  

I've been at Snowbird for three seasons.  They have a good deal for passholders.  Not everything is perfect, but there is no perfect resort.  But they are clearly skier focused and I like that.  Two new HSQ's after two meh ski seasons, always the last in Utah to close, and overall the focus being skiing makes me happy.


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## JimG. (May 3, 2014)

You should be happy ANYBODY wants to buy a ski area.


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## thetrailboss (May 3, 2014)

JimG. said:


> You should be happy ANYBODY wants to buy a ski area.



True.  But I'd heard that Dick Bass had set up a trust to run the place and POWDR has a lot of problems right now with PCMR.  So I'm not so sure if this has any truth to it.


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## snoseek (May 3, 2014)

Oh jesus, I sorta planned on working there at one of the hotels next winter. That would be a big factor in my decision. Please no POWDR and please no Vail.


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## Brad J (May 4, 2014)

If the do buy it please move the K Gm there, he gets what the core skiers want, Snowbird must be a money maker with its long season and good infer structure, great terrain, and little need for snowmaking. I go there for a week and I like it the way it is.


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## Brad J (May 4, 2014)

JimG. said:


> You should be happy ANYBODY wants to buy a ski area.


You certainly do not want just anyone to buy a mountain, Look what Peak Resort did with Wildcat this year. Competence matters!!!!!


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## drjeff (May 4, 2014)

Brad J said:


> You certainly do not want just anyone to buy a mountain, Look what Peak Resort did with Wildcat this year. Competence matters!!!!!



Totally not playing Peak Cheerleader here (seriously!!) but if Wildcat HADN'T had that series of unfortunate mechanical issues with the snowmaking system and had a "normal" Wildcat snowmaking season, but being able to take advantage of the upgrade attempts Peak made, would you have the same skepticism? 

It's not like Peak didn't make the effort to START trying to improve Wildcat. They just ran into a series of totally unforseen events that handcuffed them before they could really even get off the ground. 

If your issue is how they chose to operate the Wildcat/Attitash combo, then that's a whole different thing


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## yeggous (May 4, 2014)

drjeff said:


> Totally not playing Peak Cheerleader here (seriously!!) but if Wildcat HADN'T had that series of unfortunate mechanical issues with the snowmaking system and had a "normal" Wildcat snowmaking season, but being able to take advantage of the upgrade attempts Peak made, would you have the same skepticism?
> 
> It's not like Peak didn't make the effort to START trying to improve Wildcat. They just ran into a series of totally unforseen events that handcuffed them before they could really even get off the ground.
> 
> If your issue is how they chose to operate the Wildcat/Attitash combo, then that's a whole different thing



My big issues is that they cut corners and get their priorities mixed up. They chose to rebuild rather than replace the pumps, and one failed on its very first day of (re)use. Then they chose to buy compressors and try the new low energy guns before addressing the pipes. As a result of the increased pressure and aging pipes they had repeated blowouts all over the place this year. They tried the skip the infrastructure upgrades and go straight for the reward.



Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


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## marcski (May 4, 2014)

Ooops, sorry wrong thread.


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## Brad J (May 4, 2014)

drjeff said:


> Totally not playing Peak Cheerleader here (seriously!!) but if Wildcat HADN'T had that series of unfortunate mechanical issues with the snowmaking system and had a "normal" Wildcat snowmaking season, but being able to take advantage of the upgrade attempts Peak made, would you have the same skepticism?
> 
> It's not like Peak didn't make the effort to START trying to improve Wildcat. They just ran into a series of totally unforseen events that handcuffed them before they could really even get off the ground.
> 
> If your issue is how they chose to operate the Wildcat/Attitash combo, then that's a whole different thing





yeggous said:


> My big issues is that they cut corners and get their priorities mixed up. They chose to rebuild rather than replace the pumps, and one failed on its very first day of (re)use. Then they chose to buy compressors and try the new low energy guns before addressing the pipes. As a result of the increased pressure and aging pipes they had repeated blowouts all over the place this year. They tried the skip the infrastructure upgrades and go straight for the reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app



I know you have had a good experience at Mt. Snow and you know the GM at Wildcat , but we have seen the incompetence at both Wildcat and Attitash, I understand Mt Snow and Crotchet have gotten good reviews, But they have NOT delivered to us the product we expect and have been PROMISED by the management of the resorts in the MWV


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## steamboat1 (May 4, 2014)

marcski said:


> Ooops, sorry wrong thread.



Not at all. The OP started this thread by stating he heard POWDR (Cummings) wanted to buy Snowbird. It has evolved into a debate about Peak Resorts. The incompetence shown by POWDR in regards to the PCMR lease belongs in this thread. What Wildcat, Attitash, Mount Snow or other Peak Resorts has to do with this thread is debatable. Obviously I saw your post before you edited it. It was pretty much spot on.


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## Highway Star (May 5, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> My second ride on Collins was with an employee at Snowbird.  We were talking about Alta and Snowbird.  He commented that Dick Bass is getting on in age and that his family does not want to run the resort.
> 
> "The latest rumor flying around is that John Cumming [POWDR] wants to buy Snowbird."


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## Brad J (May 5, 2014)

sorry to get off track, but the wrong buyer of an icon like Snowbird and for that matter Wildcat can have grave results. I would hope the vision that the founders of Snowbird had would be respected and nurtured. what works with one area will not work in another, thats the point I was trying to make.


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## marcski (May 6, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Not at all. The OP started this thread by stating he heard POWDR (Cummings) wanted to buy Snowbird. It has evolved into a debate about Peak Resorts. The incompetence shown by POWDR in regards to the PCMR lease belongs in this thread. What Wildcat, Attitash, Mount Snow or other Peak Resorts has to do with this thread is debatable. Obviously I saw your post before you edited it. It was pretty much spot on.



I thought I saw Powdr...but then all that Peak stuff came up and through me for a loop.  Anyway, for people other than Steamboat who didn't see my post, I wrote something like the following in response to Dr. Jeff's post: That my big concern is that Powder forgot to send a certified letter on time that would have kept them in what was perhaps the sweetest lease deal in all of skiing.  To me, that is telling when a company screws up with regard to its' biggest asset.


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## thetrailboss (May 6, 2014)

Back to my original point, other than the fact that a Cummings has a house across the road to Snowbird is the only real connection that I see.  POWDR does not have the money to BUY any resort right now.  AFAIK they only have enough to lease their operations and even then they are struggling.  So I doubt that they are going to buy Snowbird.


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## JimG. (May 6, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Back to my original point, other than the fact that a Cummings has a house across the road to Snowbird is the only real connection that I see.  POWDR does not have the money to BUY any resort right now.  AFAIK they only have enough to lease their operations and even then they are struggling.  So I doubt that they are going to buy Snowbird.



So, what you're saying is "never mind"?


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## thetrailboss (May 6, 2014)

JimG. said:


> So, what you're saying is "never mind"?



I sure as hell hope so!  :lol:


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## Highway Star (May 6, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Back to my original point, other than the fact that a Cummings has a house across the road to Snowbird is the only real connection that I see.  POWDR does not have the money to BUY any resort right now.  AFAIK they only have enough to lease their operations and even then they are struggling.  So I doubt that they are going to buy Snowbird.



Nah, you're wrong.  I hear from a very reliable source that POWDR is going to sell both PCMR and Killington/Pico to Vail Resorts for a very reasonable deal, and use the freed up capital to buy Snowbird.  K/P will go on the $550 Epic pass and the Interconnect will be built next summer, while Snowbird will see a 60% pass price increase, operate from December 15th to April 15th, and eliminate the connection to Alta.  

Don't worry, you'll be in very capable hands with POWDR at Snowbird.  Maybe they'll even put Chris Nyberg in charge, I know you were a fan of his management style at Killington.  Nyberg will do a great job re-establishing Snowbird as a nearly top tier resort.


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## thetrailboss (May 6, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Nah, you're wrong.  I hear from a very reliable source that POWDR is going to sell both PCMR and Killington/Pico to Vail Resorts for a very reasonable deal, and use the freed up capital to buy Snowbird.  K/P will go on the $550 Epic pass and the Interconnect will be built next summer, while Snowbird will see a 60% pass price increase, operate from December 15th to April 15th, and eliminate the connection to Alta.
> 
> Don't worry, you'll be in very capable hands with POWDR at Snowbird.  Maybe they'll even put Chris Nyberg in charge, I know you were a fan of his management style at Killington.  Nyberg will do a great job re-establishing Snowbird as a nearly top tier resort.



I will be looking forward to your proposed lift diagrams for Snowbird akin to what you did for Killington.


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## Highway Star (May 7, 2014)

I, for one, welcome your new corporate overlords.


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## steamboat1 (May 12, 2014)

Cumming Family Partners... 					 					 				
 				[h=1]Snowbird Partnership[/h] 			


  	 		 			 				 					[h=3]Cumming Family Partners with Bass Family in Snowbird[/h]  	The Bass and Cumming Families announced today that they have entered  into a partnership for the future operation and development of Snowbird  Ski and Summer Resort.  The partnership will provide continuing  direction and funding for major capital improvement projects, including a  new restaurant and skier services building atop the Aerial Tram, a Four  Diamond remodel initiative for the Cliff Lodge, and the future  renovation of the Snowbird Center.
  	“This partnership will enable Snowbird to achieve more rapid growth and  even greater benefits for our guests in keeping with our founding  perspective and philosophy of providing a year-round destination  mountain resort for the enhancement of body, mind, and spirit, with our  ever present emphasis on environmental protection and sensitivity,” said  Richard D. Bass.
  	In addition, Bass feels extremely fortunate to have the Cumming Family  join in Snowbird’s future, owing to his inability to live and work at  Snowbird’s altitude because of his advancing age.
  	“I look forward to working with the Bass Family and the team at  Snowbird in providing world-class experiences on and off the mountain,”  said Ian M. Cumming, an original investor in the Inn at Snowbird.   Cumming owns a home at Snowbird and his family has a long history of  skiing at Snowbird.  “We are very happy to be involved at a place that  has so many fond memories for our family,” said Cumming.
  	“Partnering with the Cumming Family ensures a bright future for  Snowbird,” said Snowbird CEO and President Bob Bonar, one of the first  employees when Snowbird opened in 1971.  “Snowbird’s commitment to  providing exceptional skiing and year-round hospitality, entertainment,  and guest service will only greatly increase as we go forward.”

  				  				  				 					 	Snowbird’s current management team, led by Bob Bonar, Tom Jones and  Jerry Giles, will remain in place. The partnership is between the Bass  and Cumming Families and does not involve Powdr Corp.  Mr. Cumming will  own a majority share of Snowbird.  Dick Bass will remain as Chairman of  the Board.


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## thetrailboss (May 12, 2014)

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.snowbird.com/partnership/?utm_source=snowbirdfuture&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=may14


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## thetrailboss (May 12, 2014)

One SMALL glimmer of hope:



> Snowbird’s current management team, led by Bob Bonar, Tom Jones and Jerry Giles, will remain in place. The partnership is between the Bass and Cumming Families and does not involve Powdr Corp.  Mr. Cumming will own a majority share of Snowbird.  Dick Bass will remain as Chairman of the Board.


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## marcski (May 12, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> One SMALL glimmer of hope:



It's REALLY small, TB. He's old and definitely on his way out.  This is definitely pretty bad.  4 Diamond remodel of the Cliff Lodge??  No more early and late season deals for cheap there.


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## thetrailboss (May 12, 2014)

marcski said:


> It's REALLY small, TB. He's old and definitely on his way out.  This is definitely pretty bad.  4 Diamond remodel of the Cliff Lodge??  No more early and late season deals for cheap there.



So two old guys running it.  Bass' family doesn't want to do it and I won't comment on the Junior Cummings' ability to run a ski area (or lack thereof).  Weird.

It sounds like Cummings has invested in the mountain, Dick still has control, and management are remaining in place.


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## thetrailboss (May 12, 2014)

Another article:  http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/57933760-79/snowbird-resort-bass-corp.html.csp

Confirms that Ian owns "Ted's House".  Also indicates that this will be separate from POWDR.

And though Dick is chair he apparently is now a minority owner.


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## Highway Star (May 12, 2014)

You are soooooo screwed.


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## snoseek (May 13, 2014)

I'll take this over a Vail buyout anyday


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## thetrailboss (May 13, 2014)

snoseek said:


> I'll take this over a Vail buyout anyday



The SL Trib's take on it:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/57933760-79/snowbird-resort-family-ski.html.csp

They largely see it as positive.


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## steamboat1 (May 13, 2014)

I guess you can forget about Mary Ellen. Killington can't even replace the South Ridge chair. Don't even want to mention the interconnect or village. You were very lucky to get the two new quads before Bass sold.


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## ScottySkis (May 13, 2014)

I womder if Peak will have multipe season pass with new england and west cpast mountains.


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## thetrailboss (May 13, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I guess you can forget about Mary Ellen. Killington can't even replace the South Ridge chair. Don't even want to mention the interconnect or village. You were very lucky to get the two new quads before Bass sold.



We're very lucky that they did upgrade those lifts.  If you read that article you'll hear SOC complaining about the new summit lodge that has already been approved and is going on top of a summit that was blasted, leveled, and graded 43 years ago.  So it is already a disturbed area.  And SOC is fighting Mary Ellen.  Big time.


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## drjeff (May 13, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> I womder if Peak will have multipe season pass with new england and west cpast mountains.



????

My "Scotty speak translation app" is even at a loss with this one!


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## thetrailboss (May 13, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> I womder if Peak will have multipe season pass with new england and west cpast mountains.



Allow me to translate.  

"While sipping my PBR, I contemplated on the implications of this business transaction.  Specifically, I wonder if POWDR will offer a season pass with access to New England and western resorts."


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## steamboat1 (May 13, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Allow me to translate.
> 
> "While sipping my PBR, I contemplated on the implications of this business transaction.  Specifically, I wonder if POWDR will offer a season pass with access to New England and western resorts."


Powdr already offers free skiing at their other resorts but it's only 3 days. After that you get a 20% discount I believe.

edit: From the K website.
[h=2]Unlimited Pass[/h] *Valid at Killington Resort and Pico Mountain all season long.  Plus, get free skiing and riding at six additional resorts throughout  the country!*


New this year, Unlimited Adult, Senior and 29-below passholders receive *THREE FREE DAYS*  at each of these five Powdr Resorts: Park City Mountain Resort in Utah,  Boreal Mountain Resort in California, Copper Mountain Resort in  Colorado, Mt Bachelor Resort in Oregon and Las Vegas Ski and Snowboard  Resort in Nevada.
Additional days will be available at 20% off window rates.
Free days cannot be used December 27-31, 2014 and during Mt Bachelor's summer opening after Memorial Day.
Not valid with Super Senior Unlimited Pass.
Killington Season Pass will need to be presented at the other resorts’ ticket window each day for a lift ticket.
 
Unlimited Youth and Child passholders receive *UNLIMITED FREE DAYS *at the same five sister resorts.
There are no blackout dates for youth passholders but offer is not valid during Mt Bachelor's summer opening after Memorial Day.
Killington Season Pass will need to be presented at the other resorts’ ticket window each day for a lift ticket.


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## ScottySkis (May 13, 2014)

Yes that what i meant. No PBr i drink wjiskey or wine. iand at work today so drinking.


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## thetrailboss (May 13, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Powdr already offers free skiing at their other resorts but it's only 3 days. After that you get a 20% discount I believe.
> 
> edit: From the K website.
> [h=2]Unlimited Pass[/h] *Valid at Killington Resort and Pico Mountain all season long.  Plus, get free skiing and riding at six additional resorts throughout  the country!*
> ...



3 free days?  That's weak sauce......


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## snoseek (May 13, 2014)

Sounds like it will continue to be run as an independent resort which in my eyes is a positive as LCC is already a busy place.


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## steamboat1 (May 14, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> 3 free days?  That's weak sauce......



I read it as 3 free days at each resort, so 5 resorts = 15 free days. How many free days at other Utah resorts did you get with your Snowbird pass?


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## thetrailboss (May 14, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I read it as 3 free days at each resort, so 5 resorts = 15 free days. How many free days at other Utah resorts did you get with your Snowbird pass?



9 total.  But they are not under common ownership.  I'd expect POWDR to offer a product that gives access to all its resorts.  Akin to the ASC passes.  But then again ASC is long gone.


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## steamboat1 (May 14, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> 9 total.  But they are not under common ownership.  I'd expect POWDR to offer a product that gives access to all its resorts.  Akin to the ASC passes.  But then again ASC is long gone.



How does Boyne, Peaks & Intrawest stack up? Not much better except Boyne, but you have to stay at their lodging.


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## thetrailboss (May 14, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> How does Boyne, Peaks & Intrawest stack up? Not much better except Boyne, but you have to stay at their lodging.



Peaks has a full access NE product.  

Again, I'm harkening back to the ASC days oh so long ago.  And I'm also probably POWDR hating   From what I've been seeing and hearing the K locals are much happier.


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## steamboat1 (May 14, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Peaks has a full access NE product.
> 
> Again, I'm harkening back to the ASC days oh so long ago.  And I'm also probably POWDR hating   From what I've been seeing and hearing the K locals are much happier.



Powdr offers full access to the two ski areas they own in the northeast also. Having access to two side by side ski areas is not a bad deal either. The positive vibe coming from K skiers has nothing to do with Powdr & everything to do with Mike S. K skiers are still crying for a replacement of the South Ridge chair & a HSQ for Snowdon not to mention the interconnect & K village. Mike S has nothing to do with those decisions, Powdr does.

Back on topic. Heard a rumor Cummings is looking to buy Alta...


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## thetrailboss (May 14, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Powdr offers full access to the two ski areas they own in the northeast also. Having access to two side by side ski areas is not a bad deal either. The positive vibe coming from K skiers has nothing to do with Powdr & everything to do with Mike S. K skiers are still crying for a replacement of the South Ridge chair & a HSQ for Snowdon not to mention the interconnect & K village. Mike S has nothing to do with those decisions, Powdr does.
> 
> Back on topic. Heard a rumor Cummings is looking to buy Alta...



Yeah Alta will never sell.....the Quinney and Laughlin families are quite involved.

POWDR's problem is that they just don't have enough money.  They don't OWN anything....they lease the areas they operate.  And then they run things on a shoestring budget as you know all too well.


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## thetrailboss (May 14, 2014)

Park Record's article on the deal:

http://www.parkrecord.com/park_city...ng-family-acquires-majority-interest-snowbird


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## thetrailboss (May 14, 2014)

And please don't ruin the 'bird.....please....


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## ScottySkis (May 15, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> And please don't ruin the 'bird.....please....


o+1  Such great place.


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## DoublePlanker (May 15, 2014)

I don't see how they could ruin Snowbird.  The terrain is what it is = amazing!   They can't ruin the terrain.  I suppose they could increase the price, reduce the hours, make the service worse.


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## drjeff (May 15, 2014)

DoublePlanker said:


> I don't see how they could ruin Snowbird.  The terrain is what it is = amazing!   They can't ruin the terrain.  I suppose they could increase the price, reduce the hours, make the service worse.



With all the environmental restrictions and scrutiny that Snowbird is and has been under (remember in the Master 2002 Olympic plan the Downhill and Super G courses were supposed to be at Snowbird until a multitude of environmental cases were brought against them and they ultimately went to Snowbasin where far less environmental "road blocks" were likely to occur, I doubt that too much "crazy" stuff could happen to the physical plant that is Snowbird and their goals for terrain expansion and the long planned summit lodge will likely continue.

The big variable is the philosophy of season length.... Only time will tell


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## thetrailboss (May 15, 2014)

DoublePlanker said:


> I don't see how they could ruin Snowbird.  The terrain is what it is = amazing!   They can't ruin the terrain.  I suppose they could increase the price, reduce the hours, make the service worse.



Yeah as said season length is what is my biggest concern.  

They CAN improve on snowmaking and grooming. I think that they are just not used to having such dry seasons.


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## doublediamond (May 17, 2014)

yeggous said:


> They chose to rebuild rather than replace the pumps, and one failed on its very first day of (re)use.



Was the failed pump actually a rebuilt one?  They rebuilt 9 of 10.  I imagine it's the one they skimped on the rebuild that failed.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 12, 2014)

Cumming has said that POWDR has nothing to do with Snowbird...and he disputes a claim that it was a "hedge" if they lost PCMR:



> the Cumming family's recent purchase of a majority interest in Snowbird Ski and Summer Resort. The deal did not involve Powdr Corp. Cumming said the Snowbird deal is separated from the dispute with Talisker Land Holdings, LLC. He said his family has longtime ties to Snowbird. The deal involved the Cumming family and the family of Snowbird's co-founder, Dick Bass.
> A Wall Street analyst who covers the publicly traded Vail Resorts recently issued a report indicating the Snowbird deal is a hedge by the Cumming family based on the lawsuit against Talisker Land Holdings, LLC. Cumming disagreed with the analyst assessment.
> 
> "We would have bought Snowbird regardless of what is happening. We would have invested with the Bass family regardless of what's happening over here. It's unfortunate timing. Does it hedge us? I don't know. Have them call me and explain to me how we hedged, and we'll see if I agree," Cumming said.
> ...



In other news the Tram is down possibly for "several months" because it needs a new transmission.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 12, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> In other news the Tram is down possibly for "several months" because it needs a new transmission.



That's got to hurt. I'd imagine they do a pretty brisk business with tram rides during the summer. I know they also run the Peruvian chair during the summer but I can't imagine that being nearly as popular.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 12, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> That's got to hurt. I'd imagine they do a pretty brisk business with tram rides during the summer. I know they also run the Peruvian chair during the summer but I can't imagine that being nearly as popular.



The Tram is a draw.  There are enough folks in the area to make it work and enough summer business and interest that it gets a good crowd.  In my experience there are always at least 15 or 20 folks each run in the summer even on a slow midweek day.  Not a huge crowd, but a steady stream to cover costs.  It gets more business in the offseason than the Cannon or Jay trams I imagine.  And for those who have not been, the Snowbird Tram DOES deliver the goods and is a very nice lift.   

The Peruvian is a nice ride.  It is a long chair and offers a different perspective.  The fact that it ends lower is an issue because there are no facilities, _per se_, at the end of the lift...just the tunnel to Mineral Basin.  And it is quite a steep hike up to the summit from there.  But it does not have the cache of the Tram.  

I learned this info a couple weeks ago when I was forced to endure a free night with a nice meal at the Cliff Lodge for my wife's work.  I chatted with a few employees and just asked what the deal was.


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## mbedle (Jun 12, 2014)

Its got to hurt business, but unfortunately is part of business for resorts that operate gondulas during the summer months. Stowe is going through this, this summer with their rehab project (new able and redone cabins).


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## marcski (Jun 12, 2014)

I'm sorry but the guy is just out of touch and does not seem to be too sharp of a business man.  

"Cumming said it would have been difficult for Powdr Corp. to justify a  "major acquisition" like the Snowbird deal amid the uncertainty with  PCMR."

Why?  When you're about to lose (or really already lost) one of your biggest assets and revenue generators, why not invest in a new one??


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## thetrailboss (Jun 12, 2014)

marcski said:


> I'm sorry but the guy is just out of touch and does not seem to be too sharp of a business man.
> 
> "Cumming said it would have been difficult for Powdr Corp. to justify a  "major acquisition" like the Snowbird deal amid the uncertainty with  PCMR."
> 
> Why?  When you're about to lose (or really already lost) one of your biggest assets and revenue generators, why not invest in a new one??



I agree (again).  

Remember that Snowbird is not Junior, but Daddy Cumming.  So there is hope (?)


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## thetrailboss (Jun 12, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Its got to hurt business, but unfortunately is part of business for resorts that operate gondulas during the summer months. Stowe is going through this, this summer with their rehab project (new able and redone cabins).



I think I did hear about the new cabins--but had not heard about the other work.  Hard to believe that the Gondi is 23 years old or so!


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## steamboat1 (Jun 12, 2014)




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## mbedle (Jun 13, 2014)

I heard about the cable replacement in February from an employee. It makes sense considering how much more the thing is used (with spring, summer and fall operations). Figure 1 year at a winter only place is like 3 years at Stowe. Couple of pics from Facebook.


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## mbedle (Jun 13, 2014)

I saw that picture on their website yesterday. Its kind of sad to see it get so developed. People in town and along the access road have some very mixed feelings about the amount of retail they are proposing at the resort. I think its pretty much decided by which side of the road you park on, if you are for or against the development. I for one hang out at the Den and enjoy the more laid back approach to skiing.


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## AdironRider (Jun 13, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Its got to hurt business, but unfortunately is part of business for resorts that operate gondulas during the summer months. Stowe is going through this, this summer with their rehab project (new able and redone cabins).



The tram at Jackson is the primary summer draw. Usually at least 50% full at a minimum (65 max capacity in summer, not packed to brim at 101 like the winter) at over 30 bucks a head. 

That being said, Stowe could have done that work during the spring. JHole tightens the cables, does all maintenance, etc during our 2 month offseasons. Seems like poor planning on Stowes part. 

Broken transmissions though you can never plan on. Usually incorporates one of the three individual braking systems needed to run a tram safely so I can understand them being bummed out about that.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 13, 2014)

Stowe still has the toll road & adventure park (with lift serviced Alpine Slide). I don't think gondola rides are/were the main attraction at Stowe & wasn't/isn't a money maker during the summer.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 17, 2014)

Some interesting comments from the Alta blog yesterday....about "AltaSnowbird" in particular:



> Words by Alta Ski Area general manager, Onno Wieringa
> 
> Hello Alta Skiers,
> 
> ...



http://www.alta.com/altablog/?p=2341

First time I have seen them refer to AltaSnowbird like that.


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## marcski (Jun 17, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> Some interesting comments from the Alta blog yesterday....about "AltaSnowbird" in particular:    http://www.alta.com/altablog/?p=2341  First time I have seen them refer to AltaSnowbird like that.


  Like what?  More like a combined entity?  I think the "separate but equal" type of partnership and synergy that has developed between Alta and Snowbird since they opened the interconnect has been a positive for both resorts.


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## mbedle (Jun 17, 2014)

The time is takes to remove all the cabin and send them to NH to get them redone I would assume could not be completed in a couple of months. Also, they are replacing the entire cable, not just tightening. But as Steamboat said, I don't think the gondola ride is the biggest attraction at Stowe (golf and kids camp). Besides winter, its most likely biggest use is in the fall, which they plan to have it back up and running for this year.  




AdironRider said:


> The tram at Jackson is the primary summer draw. Usually at least 50% full at a minimum (65 max capacity in summer, not packed to brim at 101 like the winter) at over 30 bucks a head.
> 
> That being said, Stowe could have done that work during the spring. JHole tightens the cables, does all maintenance, etc during our 2 month offseasons. Seems like poor planning on Stowes part.
> 
> Broken transmissions though you can never plan on. Usually incorporates one of the three individual braking systems needed to run a tram safely so I can understand them being bummed out about that.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 17, 2014)

FWIW the Tram ran this past weekend.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 17, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> FWIW the Tram ran this past weekend.



Are you allowed to bring ski's?

Snowbird forecast:



This Afternoon Snow  showers. Some thunder is also possible.  High near 42. West wind around  14 mph.  Chance of precipitation is 100%. Total daytime snow  accumulation of 2 to 4 inches possible.
Tonight  Snow showers likely, mainly before midnight. Some thunder is also  possible.  Cloudy, with a low around 28. Northwest wind 6 to 14 mph.   Chance of precipitation is 70%. New snow accumulation of 1 to 3 inches  possible.
Wednesday A  40 percent chance of snow showers. Some thunder is also possible.   Partly sunny, with a high near 40. Light and variable wind becoming west  8 to 13 mph in the afternoon.  New snow accumulation of less than one  inch possible.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 17, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Are you allowed to bring ski's?
> 
> Snowbird forecast:
> 
> ...



Yep.  If you sign a liability waiver.


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## AdironRider (Jun 18, 2014)

mbedle said:


> The time is takes to remove all the cabin and send them to NH to get them redone I would assume could not be completed in a couple of months. Also, they are replacing the entire cable, not just tightening. But as Steamboat said, I don't think the gondola ride is the biggest attraction at Stowe (golf and kids camp). Besides winter, its most likely biggest use is in the fall, which they plan to have it back up and running for this year.



You realize most gondola cars come off the line every day anyways? 


In terms of the scale of work, replacing a line is a couple days tops. Refurbing gondola cars in a couple months, yeah they can and do often, Stowe just procrastinated. Whether getting their spot in line with the lift company, or just in general.


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## drjeff (Jun 18, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> You realize most gondola cars come off the line every day anyways?
> 
> 
> In terms of the scale of work, replacing a line is a couple days tops. Refurbing gondola cars in a couple months, yeah they can and do often, Stowe just procrastinated. Whether getting their spot in line with the lift company, or just in general.



Exactly! Pulling and spooling an old haul rope and then stringing the new one isn't that big of a project once the new haul rope and proper equipment is on site.

Heck in this instance where its a replacement haul rope and not a totally new installation they might even be able to splice the new haul rope into the old haul rope and pull the new rope on simultaneously as the old rope is pulled off and spooled up (unless any major sheave replacement work is being done on the towers as being "haul rope free" would aide in that process for sure!)

 Cabin refurbishment, unless something major such as cutting off the grips and installing new, smoother ones, really shouldn't take too long either - unbolt the old seats, sand blast + paint, install new seats (and possibly doors) and repeat a bunch of times.

My guess is their gondi will be all new looking and running before leaf season


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## jimmywilson69 (Jun 18, 2014)

I think it's a sure bet that the Gondola will up and running by september.  Lots of $$ to be made with people hiking around Mt. Mansfield during leaf season. 

I wonder what the new cars will look like?  I didn't think they were in bad shape when I was there in Feb.


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## steamboat1 (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm pretty sure Stowe couldn't care less what any of you have to say.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2014)

The latest from Snowbird:

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/58195017-219/snowbird-peak-forest-service.html.csp


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## AdironRider (Jul 19, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> The latest from Snowbird:
> 
> http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/58195017-219/snowbird-peak-forest-service.html.csp
> 
> ...



SOC really has an axe to grind with anything to do with development.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 20, 2014)

AdironRider said:


> SOC really has an axe to grind with anything to do with development.



Exactly. I read the article and said sour grapes--and their opposition is too late. This lodge is no surprise--it's been a stated goal for decades. Even though SOC complains, it's already been downsized to appease them. The area is already developed.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## thetrailboss (Sep 27, 2014)

Snowbird update: after the deal, things are really moving forward at Snowbird.  As the Tram operator said to me yesterday, he and his supervisor have "never seen this much work in one summer."  This was not at all expected...I was thinking it would be quiet.  

Since the ski season ended, they've done this:

*Broke ground and have made significant progress on a real summit lodge.  Steel is up, they are getting ready to pour the floors.  It is a nice looking building really.  Pretty simple....yet stylish.  No rotating floor as originally thought.  This has required a lot of additional work including a few utility lines from the summit (one sewer, one electric/comm, and maybe a new water line).  I only expected them to get utilities in and the foundation.  Looks like they really had their sh%t in gear on this one. 







*Opened a legit Big Mountain bike trail.  I've only heard good things.  They got approval to start building dedicated bike trails from the summit.  The Big Mountain Trail on Gad Side.  7.9 miles and 3,000 vertical feet.  More can be read *here.*



More is coming.  They are working on a trail down Peruvian side.  

*Something is going on in the Bookends.  They've widened the cat track/traverse that they built last season over there.  Now it looks like they are cutting a traverse across the top of the ridge and maybe cutting out the Hillary Step.  This would mean that they could open this area with less snow and that access would be a lot better.  It would also be necessary for any expansion over in Mary Ellen Gulch.  The Tram operator said that the work was for a new avalauncher in that area.  Boy that seems like a lot of work for that...






*Wilbere Chair work.  New haul rope, new grips, and new paint on the towers.  Looks good.

*New paint on Gadzoom towers.  

*New paint on Mid-Gad.  It also looks like they got it geared up to run in the offseason with a platform at the bottom.  Maybe it was a for a wedding or for getting people to Mid-Gad lodge?

There also has been some seeding and grading of some trails over on Gad 2 and on Lower Peruvian.  Looks good.

Word has it that the Tram will have some gear work in the short offseason before skiing.    

Now all we need is snow .


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