# Jet Blue is pissing me off



## Smellytele (Oct 6, 2021)

So I booked a trip to CO for my sons spring break in March on Jet Blue. Return flight which was @ 10:15am landing in BOS at 4pm has been cancelled and they booked me on a red eye. the return flight was 164. Now they have only red eyes. WTF. I had a credit from a UTAH trip that was cancelled because of Covid. Now all other flights are at least another 100. When I booked the original flights I could have gotten flights for about the same price on other airlines. Not sure if they are just going to give me a credit or refund the whole price (which takes up to 6 weeks to get)

Also did this to me with my sons flight home in December from CO.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 6, 2021)

Had a similar experience recently with Southwest of all airlines.  I would check to see if that flight was "rescheduled" by a few minutes.  That's what happened to me--initially SWA moved my flight 8 minutes and instead of moving my reservation it simply kicked it to the next morning at 5am.  Long story short, I called and the rep was like, "huh, that is weird" and fixed it.  It was obvious that "AI" had made some decisions and just dropped the reservation instead of moving me for whatever reason.  Automation is great but sometimes it leads to a dumb outcome that requires more time and human labor to fix. 

If that is not the case, do you think it has anything to do with JB's new joint-partnership with American?


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 6, 2021)

All the airlines are  adjusting schedules like crazy now. It doesn't matter which one, if you book more than a few months out, the schedule will change. The good news is once the airline makes a change you are entitled to a free change to what you want or full refund.


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## Mum skier (Oct 6, 2021)

I booked flights to Salt Lake City for February break. From Boston.  Outbound with Jet Blue return with Delta. Paid extra for direct flights and (as much as possible) sensible flight times.
First the return was changed to a transfer via New York. And this week the outbound has move to a later time. I am losing faith that we will ever get there.


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## Smellytele (Oct 6, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Had a similar experience recently with Southwest of all airlines.  I would check to see if that flight was "rescheduled" by a few minutes.  That's what happened to me--initially SWA moved my flight 8 minutes and instead of moving my reservation it simply kicked it to the next morning at 5am.  Long story short, I called and the rep was like, "huh, that is weird" and fixed it.  It was obvious that "AI" had made some decisions and just dropped the reservation instead of moving me for whatever reason.  Automation is great but sometimes it leads to a dumb outcome that requires more time and human labor to fix.
> 
> If that is not the case, do you think it has anything to do with JB's new joint-partnership with American?


Actually you could book the same flight through AA but the original flights are gone on both. I ended up canceling but still not sure if I am getting everything back (credit and extra I paid) or just the extra I paid and then they give my credits again. I'll let you all know.


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 6, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Actually you could book the same flight through AA but the original flights are gone on both. I ended up canceling but still not sure if I am getting everything back (credit and extra I paid) or just the extra I paid and then they give my credits again. I'll let you all know.


Of course the airline will give you a credit if you don't specify. Call and ask for a refund. They are required by law to give you one if the flights were changed significantly from what you booked.


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## jaytrem (Oct 6, 2021)

Good luck calling Jet Blue, last I heard hold time is hours and hours and there is (or was) no callback option.  My friend has been dealing with a Jet Blue mess for ages now.  Not sure he will ever get it resolved.


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 6, 2021)

we held the line for about two hours to cancel our nashville flights when girlfriend had covid. delta.

every single low wage customer service job is short staffed right now. yea, airlines suck. but you gotta give the people on the phone some slack. 

i actually prefer red eyes. i can drug myself to sleep easy and i hate wasting waking daylight hours in travel.


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## jimmck (Oct 6, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Good luck calling Jet Blue, last I heard hold time is hours and hours and there is (or was) no callback option.  My friend has been dealing with a Jet Blue mess for ages now.  Not sure he will ever get it resolved.


If you have a Pixel 3 (or later!) use Hold for Me.  It's scary good.






						Use Hold for Me - Google Assistant Help
					

When you call a business and you’re put on hold, you can choose to let your Google Assistant wait on hold for you and notify you when the support representative is ready to speak with you. After you



					support.google.com


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## meff (Oct 7, 2021)

Looks like JetBlue removed the second Boston/Denver flight on most days, I almost booked it a few months back but when with United instead to better fit our schedule.


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## kingslug (Oct 7, 2021)

Same thing with our flight to JH...things are a changin!


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## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2021)

I don't know about changing.  I'd say 75% of my flights have been screwed up in some way over the past 20 years.   Very little accountability the airlines have to answer to.  They'll do whatever they want to maintain maximum profits......but never enough to not stick their palms out to taxpayers during severe downturns.  

If not for work and retired family in Florida, I'd be fine with never hoping on a plane again.


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## kingslug (Oct 7, 2021)

I hate flying...


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## VTKilarney (Oct 7, 2021)

If your flight time has been changed by more than 60 minutes, you are entitled to a full refund.






						JetBlue
					

JetBlue offers flights to 90+ destinations with free inflight entertainment, free brand-name snacks and drinks, lots of legroom and award-winning service.




					www.jetblue.com


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## abc (Oct 7, 2021)

While I'm no fan of Jet Blue (long story, result is I refuse to fly them unless there's no alternative), this particular scenario isn't uniquely JB. I've heard similar stories from other with almost all airlines. 

That's why I'm not flying at the moment. And don't plan to fly this winter either. It's bad enough to deal with weather delays/cancellation in a normal winter, it's going to be much worse adding Covid disruption on top of it. 

I can easily drive out to Colorado. But beyond that will be hard to do unless we got lucky enough for permanent WFH. So my pass strategy had that as the basic assumption that I will be driving to ski this winter.


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## Geoff (Oct 7, 2021)

I haven’t used JetBlue in ages.  For years, they only had red eyes from Denver to Boston.  My life is too short to ever fly a red eye again unless it’s lie flat business class.  At one point years ago, they had a great coach product with good legroom and comfortable seats with seat back entertainment. 

I loathe the 737-800 and MAX equipment United is flying now to Denver.  30” seat pitch on a narrow 737 seat with those ultra thin seats to jam in the extra row.  Plus a hefty baggage check fee if you have ski gear.  These days, I don’t have United frequent flyer status so I don’t get the economy plus seat with adequate legroom. The up charge for economy plus and a checked bag is more than $100 each way.  It’s not a good value.  

I don’t like it but I mostly fly Southwest on that city pair.   Free checked bag.  Throw a bit of cash at it to get early boarding so room for my ski boots in the overhead and an aisle seat.  They have at least 31” seat pitch so it’s not the United agony seat.  

I wish there was an Eagle nonstop to Boston.  That would be massively convenient and avoids the whole I-70 from Denver to the resorts debacle.  You would think that with the Epic Pass, there would be a ton of O&D business to the resorts from Christmas to April 1.


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## machski (Oct 7, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Good luck calling Jet Blue, last I heard hold time is hours and hours and there is (or was) no callback option.  My friend has been dealing with a Jet Blue mess for ages now.  Not sure he will ever get it resolved.


3 minute hold for me Tuesday morning this week and they now have a call back system.  Of course, I'm Mosaic so that was on that dedicated phone number.


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## Smellytele (Oct 7, 2021)

machski said:


> 3 minute hold for me Tuesday morning this week and they now have a call back system.  Of course, I'm Mosaic so that was on that dedicated phone number.


Love Mosaic hops


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## icecoast1 (Oct 11, 2021)

Well, at least you're not flying southwest


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## machski (Oct 11, 2021)

The big yellow skybus (Spirit) has arrived at MHT.  Doesn't help us skier sets though, just 4 links to the sunshine state.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 11, 2021)

icecoast1 said:


> Well, at least you're not flying southwest


I was just about to say that Southwest was a hot ticket this weekend!


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## abc (Oct 12, 2021)

Airlines make ski resort “customer service” smell like roses!

Seats even a midget can barely squeeze in, bag fees, delays and missed connections in sunny fair weather only because it rains in south america... now massive cancellation without excuse!

But wait, the excuse was weather and traffic controllers! Weather that only affects Southwest??? Is that the lamest joke or what?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2021)

The seats are my biggest gripe and more the width than the leg room, but both suck on almost all airlines today.  Leg room in 2-6" less than the 80s, width 2-5" less as well.  Yet the average American male is an inch taller and 25# heavier. Congress actually passed legislation two years ago mandating the FAA set a minimum standard, but the purpose was more about safety to evacuate, not comfort.

I know these things because I spent 7.5 hours yesterday on a plane coming home from San Diego with a guy big enough to play Offensive Line in the NFL spilling over into my space.  It was miserable, so I read about why it was so miserable. 

And why was I on that plane for the extra 1.5 hours?  We sat on the ground for an extra hour before take off as they had a hard time "balancing the plane" eventually asking 5 passengers to get off.  Then at Logan it took 30 minutes for a gate to open up. 

Also in the 80s, you could definitely expect a meal on a cross country flight (not a good one, but something) and a snack.  Yesterday we got one small bag of Chex mix for the entire flight.

And this was on Alaska Airlines, which generally gets more positive reviews than the average carrier. 

If the airlines returned to the average seat size and service of the 80s plus the modern TV and WiFi tech?  Think of how much better flying would be.

Flying has become a race to the bottom.  The Vail model of business. Lol


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 12, 2021)

this is why I drink several cocktails prior to a flight.  Get on the plane with a nice buzz, put on some pink floyd and off to la la land


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2021)

I suppose several cocktails could still be an option for a 7AM flight like mine yesterday, but I'm not sure if that would have helped with the NFL lineman falling asleep and leaning on me throughout much of the flight.


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## kingslug (Oct 12, 2021)

If you were around in the 70"s..flying was an event..now it just sucks.


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 12, 2021)

yeah I've not had to sit next to a large dude like that DHS.  I'm fairly small myself, so the seats actually aren't an issue for me.  I don't know how someone that large flies coach, it must really suck...


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## Smellytele (Oct 12, 2021)

Ec


kingslug said:


> If you were around in the 70"s..flying was an event..now it just sucks.


Except the whole metal tube flying through the sky was filled with cigarette smoke


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## thetrailboss (Oct 12, 2021)

abc said:


> Airlines make ski resort “customer service” smell like roses!
> 
> Seats even a midget can barely squeeze in, bag fees, delays and missed connections in sunny fair weather only because it rains in south america... now massive cancellation without excuse!
> 
> But wait, the excuse was weather and traffic controllers! Weather that only affects Southwest??? Is that the lamest joke or what?


Why does SWA say weather?  Because per their policy people can't get a refund (at least easily).  I can't believe how they have fallen so hard.  Herb is a rolling in his grave.


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## abc (Oct 12, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Why does SWA say weather?  Because per their policy people can't get a refund (at least easily).  I can't believe how they have fallen so hard.  Herb is a rolling in his grave.


Not unless the specific flight was affected directly by weather. Not just because the crew got stuck in weather happening elsewhere. 

That excuse "won't fly" for the affected people.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 12, 2021)

abc said:


> Not unless the specific flight was affected directly by weather. Not just because the crew got stuck in weather happening elsewhere.
> 
> That excuse "won't fly" for the affected people.


Completely agree.


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 12, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Why does SWA say weather?  Because per their policy people can't get a refund (at least easily).  I can't believe how they have fallen so hard.  Herb is a rolling in his grave.


That's not the policy. If a Southwest flight is delayed by more than 90 minutes or canceled, the passenger is entitled to a refund. Not a credit. The reason for the delay doesn't matter. The airlines seem to have done a really good job preventing people from understanding their rights.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 12, 2021)

crystalmountainskier said:


> That's not the policy. If a Southwest flight is delayed by more than 90 minutes or canceled, the passenger is entitled to a refund. Not a credit. The reason for the delay doesn't matter. The airlines seem to have done a really good job preventing people from understanding their rights.


Absolutely.  

I feel so bad for the SWA customer service people.


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## kingslug (Oct 12, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Ec
> 
> Except the whole metal tube flying through the sky was filled with cigarette smoke


well..yeah..there was that.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2021)

Counter point.  If there was still smoking, people could hit a joint in 2021 and chill out.


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## machski (Oct 12, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Counter point.  If there was still smoking, people could hit a joint in 2021 and chill out.


No, that wouldn't have flown if tobacco smoke was still allowed.  The entire crew who has to be random drug tested would be exposed to a prohibited drug.


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## So Inclined (Oct 12, 2021)

abc said:


> I can easily drive out to Colorado. But beyond that will be hard to do unless we got lucky enough for permanent WFH. So my pass strategy had that as the basic assumption that I will be driving to ski this winter.





If you're a particular type of person (I am) and have an abundance of time (I have, at least in the past) this can be the non-airborne way to go! My favorite way to go to Taos (rental car from ABQ or Denver) and I've been hoping to do it to Whitefish and/or Big Sky sometime. No charge for bringing ski bags/gear onboard was always nice.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2021)

machski said:


> No, that wouldn't have flown if tobacco smoke was still allowed.  The entire crew who has to be random drug tested would be exposed to a prohibited drug.


I was joking


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Oct 12, 2021)

Frontier just did the same for my Philly - Denver flight in Feb


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## abc (Oct 12, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> I feel so bad for the SWA customer service people.


I feel bad for ANY customer service people.

Customer only call when they have a problem. They're typically not in the best mood when the phone got answered. The solutions are rarely straight forward. (those that are, would typically already computerized). It depends on the organization, more often than not, the "customer service" people have no power to actually come up with any real solution. Their job is trying to get the customer to accept a solution that has minimum impact to the organization. It's rarely what the customer wanted.


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## Smellytele (Oct 12, 2021)

Of course I had rebooked my son's JB flight on SW. WAH WAH WAH


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## icecoast1 (Oct 12, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Of course I had rebooked my son's JB flight on SW. WAH WAH WAH


Hopefully for your sake, mankind can get a handle on that new, nasty form of weather that only seems to effect Blue planes in time for the flight


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## thetrailboss (Oct 13, 2021)

No, it wasn’t a pilot ‘sickout’: Here’s what was really behind Southwest’s flight disruptions over the weekend
					

Southwest Airlines Co.'s weekend of canceled flights was made worse by the deep cuts the airline and others had to make on their flight schedules and it is...




					www.marketwatch.com


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## machski (Oct 13, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> No, it wasn’t a pilot ‘sickout’: Here’s what was really behind Southwest’s flight disruptions over the weekend
> 
> 
> Southwest Airlines Co.'s weekend of canceled flights was made worse by the deep cuts the airline and others had to make on their flight schedules and it is...
> ...


It's a bit more involved than this article.  Basically SW crews have stopped volunteering to fly extra days, because the company is so short they were then forcing those who volunteered an extra day into a new 3 day trip.  Most have said no to the forced extra days and so are not picking up any open time trips.


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 13, 2021)

machski said:


> It's a bit more involved than this article.  Basically SW crews have stopped volunteering to fly extra days, because the company is so short they were then forcing those who volunteered an extra day into a new 3 day trip.  Most have said no to the forced extra days and so are not picking up any open time trips.


Gary Kelly said on CNBC yesterday pilots were actually picking up more trips last weekend than average.


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## VTKilarney (Oct 14, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Leg room in 2-6" less than the 80s



To be fair, the seats are thinner now than they were in the 80's, so the overall decline in legroom is less.  You also have more options these days for extra legroom seats, but they come at a price if you are not an elite flyer.

I flew to Manchester, NH from Palm Springs yesterday via Dallas and Chicago.  You would never guess that there is a pandemic.  The airports are packed.  And with the labor shortage, I had some of the worst customer service ever in the airport.  I tried to bring some Garrett's popcorn home to my family during my Chicago layover.  I watched the worker take about five minutes just to put on a pair of gloves.  It was almost as if he was taunting the two of us in line.  And after everything was packaged up, he decided it was a good time to tell me that they were only accepting cash - which I don't carry.

The airlines are also using Covid as an excuse to cut services.  The meals in first class were pretty much a joke (e.g. an egg salad sandwich for breakfast, a ham sandwich for lunch) - and some flights didn't even have a meal, such as the flight from Dallas to Chicago that left at 12:05 PM.  We got to choose from a "snack basket" - which meant corn nuts and vegan cookies.  Unfortunately, my employer has cracked down on flying first class because the prices have gone through the roof (thanks to Covid), so this will be my last trip in the front of the cabin for a while.

On a side note, I really like the Manchester airport.  I know that their passenger numbers have dwindled, but it's still a nice place to fly out of.  The parking garage is extremely convenient and there aren't any crowds.  Spirit Airlines now serves Manchester.  And as much as my  brain tells me to avoid Spirit at all costs, their "Big Comfy Seat" is one of the best deals out there.  My biggest issue with Spirit is that there are VERY limited options if your flight is cancelled.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 14, 2021)

fly out of Manchester almost exclusively for personal travel even though it means an occasional layover.  Logan isn't worth the hassle for direct flights.  Logan can be cheaper, but time is money.  And Logan parking is outrageous.  $114 for 48 hours in the central garage


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## VTKilarney (Oct 14, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> fly out of Manchester almost exclusively for personal travel even though it means an occasional layover.  Logan isn't worth the hassle for direct flights.  Logan can be cheaper, but time is money.  And Logan parking is outrageous.  $114 for 48 hours in the central garage



For me, Logan is an extra hour drive.  I also insist on getting there much earlier because I worry about traffic.  And I won't pay the garage rates, so add on even more time for parking at Pre Flight Parking (the best off-site parking, IMHO).  All this means that Logan isn't much of a time-saver for me, even if I can get a direct flight out of Logan.


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## Smellytele (Oct 14, 2021)

I choose Logan as the prices are a lot cheaper than Manchester. I get someone to drive me and pick us up. My oldest son has “volunteered” for our next trip. Used to use Manchester all the time. Prices just went up so much compared to Boston.
Actually last trip out of Manchester our flight was canceled after we were already at the airport. They hired a car for us and drove us to Boston, gave us a shit ton of food vouchers but had to wait in Boston for a few hours for our flight.


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## machski (Oct 14, 2021)

Delta abandoned MHT, so it's Logan for me on personal travel.  Too many miles not to fly them (which means free so I'll suck up Logan's economy garage prices).


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## thetrailboss (Oct 15, 2021)

MHT and PWM are ghost towns.  It’s sad.  I wish SWA would increase their MHT presence to what it once was.  BOS is a PITA for me.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 15, 2021)

A Message from President & COO Mike Van de Ven
					

Updated on October 14, 2021   I’d like to address the operational challenges we faced recently and offer an explanation of what happened. But first, let me begin with our heartfelt apology to everyone whose travel was disrupted by these events: we are truly sorry.   The operational disruption...




					community.southwest.com


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 15, 2021)

SWA is typically on point with customer service.  I fly them exclusively and have a lot of points, so maybe I'm biased.  I'm guessing the airline supply chain is stressed as much as any other supply chain at the moment.   Was it some sort of call out protest?  I'd like to think they'd own up to it, but who knows.  Or are they struggling to regain pre-pandemic form as well.

lets hope this doesn't happen next week as I'm flying to FL to visit my son at college...


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 15, 2021)

But I do like those bitchin peanuts...


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 15, 2021)

yeah those are long gone.  I think its some sort of snack mix now.  I usually don't even take it, mainly because I'm not hungry.   I just wish people would stop being assholes on the planes, so I can cash in some free drink tickets....


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## deadheadskier (Oct 15, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> yeah those are long gone.  I think its some sort of snack mix now.  I usually don't even take it, mainly because I'm not hungry.   I just wish people would stop being assholes on the planes, so I can cash in some free drink tickets....



???

They were serving alcohol on my Delta flights on Saturday.  Didn't notice with Alaska Airlines on Monday


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 15, 2021)

Delta has good cookies...funny thing is when your at the back of the plane..and thats all thats left on the menu...yes..flying sux.


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## Zand (Oct 15, 2021)

I've taken 22 flights since COVID started, only once did I see a disturbance/argument (naturally on a Denver-Hartford flight, two places with a relatively high douchebag population).

To throw my two cents into the airline debate, I've always kind of been a Jetblue loyalist (and used Delta if JetBlue wasn't possible) but their pull has definitely been wearing off the past couple years. That said, I get a few free flights per year out of the credit card plus free bags and half price booze (which they HAVE been selling since spring). Plus the guarantee of free DirecTV and Wi-Fi is a plus that is very rare in the airline industry.

I've started flying Spirit more often for short flights recently and I find them highly worth using. Hell, next month I got roundtrip airfare to Myrtle Beach for $45. Yes their bag fees are high...don't bring a f*cking bag then (or purchase it early to get a more normal bag fee). Yes they're kind of dickish, but who else is gonna take you 1,000 miles for $45? I saw flights to Orlando for $36 round trip a couple weeks ago...if I had a reason to go there I would go once a month at that price.

I've flown United twice (to get to Jackson) the past 2 years and their seats are the absolute tightest and most uncomfortable of all airlines (including Spirit). I said I was done with them after my 2020 trip, but $200 RT came up for Jackson last Feb and it was $175 cheaper than any other flight anywhere in the west, so I jumped on it. 

Last week I flew brand new Breeze Airlines from Hartford to Columbus. I had high hopes as they were founded by the same guy as JetBlue, but turns out they're a more expensive Spirit. No in flight amenities, they charge for drinks and snacks, bag fees are stupid high, and their flights are perennially 45 minutes late. I have no problem paying Spirit prices for that kind of experience, but $180 roundtrip is way too much to be treated like that.

I still keep JetBlue at the top of my rankings, but they're slipping to Delta. Hopefully they don't keep sliding too far back.


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 15, 2021)

My biggest fear is losing my stuff on a ski trip..and the way things are now..that is more of a reality.


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## drjeff (Oct 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> My biggest fear is losing my stuff on a ski trip..and the way things are now..that is more of a reality.


In the past, when I have a couple of extra days ahead of, and after my trips out West that I won't be using my ski gear, I have shipped via Fed Ex my families gear to/from our destination. You pay for it, however you also get the peace of mind that Fed Ex delivers with their reliability of getting things where you want on time


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 15, 2021)

Kingslug20 said:


> My biggest fear is losing my stuff on a ski trip..and the way things are now..that is more of a reality.


It's actually not. Mishandled bag rates have been declining for years thanks to modern tracking technology.

Only about 4 in 1,000 bags are delayed. American and United are on the higher end while Delta, Southwest and JetBlue are the best.

Keep your boots with you and you'll be fine.


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## Zand (Oct 15, 2021)

I haven't had an airline lose bags on me in 15 years (knock on f*cking wood now that I just said that). Admittedly I was nervous about flying to Jackson because of layovers (always in Chicago or Denver which makes me even more nervous about delays and missed connections), but luckily no issues with bags at all. I always keep my pass with me for the flight. Figure if shit hits the fan I can rent everything else.

Edit: Many people carry on their boot bag, but my boots always kill me out west for some reason anyway so it would be just as well if I had to rent.


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## machski (Oct 15, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> MHT and PWM are ghost towns.  It’s sad.  I wish SWA would increase their MHT presence to what it once was.  BOS is a PITA for me.


PWM is not that dead, a lot more service than MHT now.  They even have nonstops to DEN out of PWM.


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 15, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> ???
> 
> They were serving alcohol on my Delta flights on Saturday.  Didn't notice with Alaska Airlines on Monday


Southwest has not started reserving alcohol yet and recently delayed it further until 2022 because of unruly passengers who refuse to wear masks and act like assholes


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## ThatGuy (Oct 15, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Southwest has not started reserving alcohol yet and recently delayed it further until 2022 because of unruly passengers who refuse to wear masks and act like assholes


Its crazy because planes are one of the few places I wouldn’t mind wearing one permanently.


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 18, 2021)

Its not the tech I worry about..its the labor...


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 18, 2021)

I live in the Western White Mtns and fly to work. MHT is 1 hour and 10 minutes from the house but almost always involves an awful connection. Great little airport, but really needs a lot more service to be viable for many of us. My partner loves it though. She'd rather connect than go to Logan.  I usually take the coach from Concord. Goes right to the terminals at Logan. Comfy, wifi (onboard right now in fact), and I can fly nonstop to pretty much anywhere in the world I need to go.


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## machski (Oct 18, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> I live in the Western White Mtns and fly to work. MHT is 1 hour and 10 minutes from the house but almost always involves an awful connection. Great little airport, but really needs a lot more service to be viable for many of us. My partner loves it though. She'd rather connect than go to Logan.  I usually take the coach from Concord. Goes right to the terminals at Logan. Comfy, wifi (onboard right now in fact), and I can fly nonstop to pretty much anywhere in the world I need to go.


Logan's build up has definitely killed MHT.  Delta trimmed down to just DTW pre-covid and then suspended service when it hit.  They elected to never return, the writing was on the wall when they officially "hubbed" BOS.  SW took away most of their best options at MHT (we had DEN, LAS, SDF amongst others at one time).  AA has the best selection of you want to call it that.  United just added back EWR to IAD service.  And we have Spirit adding to FL options.  I just don't see it getting much more.  Perhaps United will try adding a DEN run, would be nice.  They just did in PWM.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2021)

machski said:


> PWM is not that dead, a lot more service than MHT now.  They even have nonstops to DEN out of PWM.


Interesting.  When I flew into PWM in November 2019 it was a ghost town.  Good to hear.   

At least both are still cheaper than BTV.


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## LonghornSkier (Oct 18, 2021)

PWM carried 2.18MM passengers in 2019 and 792k in 2020.

MHT carried 1.73MM in 2019 and 635k in 2020.

BOS carried 42.5MM in 2019 and 12.6MM in 2020.


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 18, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> PWM carried 2.18MM passengers in 2019 and 792k in 2020.
> 
> MHT carried 1.73MM in 2019 and 635k in 2020.
> 
> BOS carried 42.5MM in 2019 and 12.6MM in 2020.


New Hampshire has the 3rd slowest air travel recovery in the nation. Massachusetts is 11th slowest and  Maine is around the middle of the pack.


----------



## machski (Oct 18, 2021)

crystalmountainskier said:


> New Hampshire has the 3rd slowest air travel recovery in the nation. Massachusetts is 11th slowest and  Maine is around the middle of the pack.


Interesting, since we are not even a month into the 4th quarter yet.  NH will pick up with the addition of Spirit.  The loss of Delta and lack of United first half hasn't helped NH's 2021 numbers.  PWM has picked up quite a bit this summer.  Even BGR has a bunch of new flights to it so ME should come in pretty good year end.


----------



## Mum skier (Oct 18, 2021)

Continuing saga of our attempt to get to Utah for February break. In August Delta cancelled our direct return flight from SLC to Boston that I had booked in May, sending us via JFK.  This weekend that flight was also cancelled and we are now routed Salt Lake to Los Angeles to JKF to Boston.  By this stage I am ready to give up on the whole trip but the outbound flight with Jet Blue as well as the 50% deposit on the condo at the Canyons is non refundable.  They refused to move us to another direct Delta flight as there were only full economy seats left and I had booked basic (still a lot for a family of 4). So I got mad and cancelled the return flight.

So now we are walking back from Utah to Boston......


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2021)

Mum skier said:


> Continuing saga of our attempt to get to Utah for February break. In August Delta cancelled our direct return flight from SLC to Boston that I had booked in May, sending us via JFK.  This weekend that flight was also cancelled and we are now routed Salt Lake to Los Angeles to JKF to Boston.  By this stage I am ready to give up on the whole trip but the outbound flight with Jet Blue as well as the 50% deposit on the condo at the Canyons is non refundable.  They refused to move us to another direct Delta flight as there were only full economy seats left and I had booked basic (still a lot for a family of 4). So I got mad and cancelled the return flight.
> 
> So now we are walking back from Utah to Boston......


Wow.  Something is really, really wrong there.  That sucks.  Delta normally has at least 2 or 3 direct SLC to BOS options daily.  I could see a SLC to DTW or JFK with a connection to BOS.  But flying back to LAX then over to JFK?!


----------



## Zand (Oct 18, 2021)

JetBlue has waived all change and cancellation fees since Covid started...why can't you get a refund?


----------



## Kingslug20 (Oct 19, 2021)

My flight to JH changed again..but at least I'm not walking..yet.
Now tell me again not to worry about my baggage.......


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 19, 2021)

Mum skier said:


> Continuing saga of our attempt to get to Utah for February break. In August Delta cancelled our direct return flight from SLC to Boston that I had booked in May, sending us via JFK.  This weekend that flight was also cancelled and we are now routed Salt Lake to Los Angeles to JKF to Boston.  By this stage I am ready to give up on the whole trip but the outbound flight with Jet Blue as well as the 50% deposit on the condo at the Canyons is non refundable.  They refused to move us to another direct Delta flight as there were only full economy seats left and I had booked basic (still a lot for a family of 4). So I got mad and cancelled the return flight.
> 
> So now we are walking back from Utah to Boston......


Were you able to call Delta and sort this out? When you cancelled, did you get a refund or credit? Even if they can't get you direct SLC-BOS,  they should be able to run you over MSP/DTW/JFK or even ATL. All better than SLC-LAX-JFK-BOS which is absurd.


----------



## Boxtop Willie (Oct 19, 2021)

Airlines work in an alternate universe...and I fly every week so I'm within their gravitational pull.
Did a same day r/t to NYC 2 weeks ago on Thursday. (Bought tickets 1 week prior) BTV/EWR $140 on Unitied. Same itinerary from MHT was $635.
The BTV airport is lovely.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 19, 2021)

Boxtop Willie said:


> Airlines work in an alternate universe...and I fly every week so I'm within their gravitational pull.
> Did a same day r/t to NYC 2 weeks ago on Thursday. (Bought tickets 1 week prior) BTV/EWR $140 on Unitied. Same itinerary from MHT was $635.
> The BTV airport is lovely.


Very interesting.  That is the opposite of my experience with BTV.


----------



## machski (Oct 20, 2021)

Mum skier said:


> Continuing saga of our attempt to get to Utah for February break. In August Delta cancelled our direct return flight from SLC to Boston that I had booked in May, sending us via JFK.  This weekend that flight was also cancelled and we are now routed Salt Lake to Los Angeles to JKF to Boston.  By this stage I am ready to give up on the whole trip but the outbound flight with Jet Blue as well as the 50% deposit on the condo at the Canyons is non refundable.  They refused to move us to another direct Delta flight as there were only full economy seats left and I had booked basic (still a lot for a family of 4). So I got mad and cancelled the return flight.
> 
> So now we are walking back from Utah to Boston......


Sorry to hear this, but a perfect example of why you should never book a BASIC fare on ANY airline.  They bit you with it, but you are treated like stowage class was during the oceanliner era.  They don't care and don't give you great service when things go bad.  Also, booking 9 months out is a sure way to have plans unravel.  They shouldn't allow you to book that far out.
Not sure on JetBlue cancels, but I bet BlueBasic doesn't get the same as a Blue fare or higher.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 20, 2021)

Mum skier said:


> Continuing saga of our attempt to get to Utah for February break. In August Delta cancelled our direct return flight from SLC to Boston that I had booked in May, sending us via JFK.  This weekend that flight was also cancelled and we are now routed Salt Lake to Los Angeles to JKF to Boston.  By this stage I am ready to give up on the whole trip but the outbound flight with Jet Blue as well as the 50% deposit on the condo at the Canyons is non refundable.  They refused to move us to another direct Delta flight as there were only full economy seats left and I had booked basic (still a lot for a family of 4). So I got mad and cancelled the return flight.
> 
> So now we are walking back from Utah to Boston......


The costs and crazines are certainly there!   

Just booked a trip down to Florida for my kids April break. Tickets on Southwest, which used to be say $400 or so per person round trip for the same Providence to Orlando or Tampa that we're doing, were roughly $1000 per person round trip.  Add into the cost of hotels at Disney and Universal for a few days (the reality for my wife and I with our oldest off to college next Fall is that this may very well be the last real family vacation that the 4 of us have together, so we're going a bit overboard, and what both parks are getting for tickets, and its absolutely crazy what this trip is going to cost compared to similar past trips.

I get that there are about 1001 reasons why costs of most everything have gone up lately. I also wonder when the ceiling is going to be reached and then we will start to see prces return a bit more towards levels that we're used to - Again I get that there are about 1001 things that have to happen for that to occur as well


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 20, 2021)

$1000/person round trip in April on Southwest?  are you buying business select?

I know for my son's roundtrip from Tampa to Baltimore at Thanksgiving it was a little shy of $600.  I burned 40k points as opposed to spending the cash.  

I have the SW credit card and can pay for my sons college with no added fee.  so We've been rolling with the Companion Pass for 2 years now.  so when I fly someone flys for free with me.  even if I use points.  Which I typically horde...


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 20, 2021)

machski said:


> Sorry to hear this, but a perfect example of why you should never book a BASIC fare on ANY airline.  They bit you with it, but you are treated like stowage class was during the oceanliner era.  They don't care and don't give you great service when things go bad.  Also, booking 9 months out is a sure way to have plans unravel.  They shouldn't allow you to book that far out.
> Not sure on JetBlue cancels, but I bet BlueBasic doesn't get the same as a Blue fare or higher.



Yeah. Basic fares don't usually end up being the deal they appear to be.   If it's an airline you have status on, they can be ok, since you typically keep your baggage/ seat selection/ lounge perks.  Otherwise, you're at the back of the Airbus.


----------



## abc (Oct 20, 2021)

machski said:


> Sorry to hear this, but a perfect example of why you should never book a BASIC fare on ANY airline.  They bit you with it, but you are treated like stowage class was during the oceanliner era.


Frankly, I don't care if I'm treated like stowage class! As long as the price is right, I'll be flying in the same plane (or ship, as in the example of ocean liner era). But unlike in the ocean liner era, I'm only in the plane for a few hours, not weeks! And unlike an ocean liner travel, which the "journey" is itself part of the enjoyment (to rub elbows with your own class in the "right" dining room), a plane ride is just a means to get from point A to point B. 

So no, I don't pay extra for the "privilege" in first/business class. Unless my company is paying, that is.



> They don't care and don't give you great service when things go bad.  Also, booking 9 months out is a sure way to have plans unravel.  They shouldn't allow you to book that far out.
> Not sure on JetBlue cancels, but I bet BlueBasic doesn't get the same as a Blue fare or higher.


The lack of rebooking priority is more a risk management premium. 

By booking 9 months ahead, you take your risk with the low fare. Or pay the risk premium at a higher tier. 

Nothing to do with being "stowage". You get the same drink and overpriced sandwiches with others in the same cabin.


----------



## abc (Oct 20, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> Yeah. Basic fares don't usually end up being the deal they appear to be.


Actually, I consider the deal as exactly "they appear to be". It's just I know what I'm buying into, no more, no less. Perhaps not what some people think it is.



> Otherwise, you're at the back of the Airbus.


Which is exactly the deal!

If you don't want to be in the back of the plane for a few hours. Pay up to be up front.


----------



## Boxtop Willie (Oct 20, 2021)

To echo what Machski said, booking way out (6-9 months) is almost a guarantee that the airline will muck around with your itinerary. Also, it's no guarantee that you'll get the best price. The yield management algorithms are getting increasingly sophisticated. I'm seeing many instances where the the price 6 months out is on the high side, as if the algorithm is testing the high-end to gauge demand and see who bites. Then the price declines over time to find the sweet spot. In my experience (I book 100-130 flights a year, both domestic and International) the best prices are found 50-60 days out. Just my $0.02.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 20, 2021)

Steerage not stowage


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 20, 2021)

abc said:


> Frankly, I don't care if I'm treated like stowage class! As long as the price is right, I'll be flying in the same plane (or ship, as in the example of ocean liner era)..................
> 
> Nothing to do with being "stowage". You get the same drink and overpriced sandwiches with others in the same cabin.


Sort of. United doesn't even let basic fare passengers bring a full size carry on.  In the event of an oversold situation where they don't have enough volunteers (uncommon, but I saw it happen on Monday) basic fares are gonna get bumped first.  You're also pretty likely to be enjoying that sandwich seated apart from your traveling group.  You obviously seem to understand all the various restrictions and deem them worthwhile for the cheap fare. I get it. I LOVE scoring cheap fares (flew MAD-BOS last friday for $158 all in!), but they are often listed in a way (particularly on third party booking sites) that doesn't make such restrictions and extra costs clear.


Boxtop Willie said:


> To echo what Machski said, booking way out (6-9 months) is almost a guarantee that the airline will muck around with your itinerary. Also, it's no guarantee that you'll get the best price. The yield management algorithms are getting increasingly sophisticated. I'm seeing many instances where the the price 6 months out is on the high side, as if the algorithm is testing the high-end to gauge demand and see who bites. Then the price declines over time to find the sweet spot. In my experience (I book 100-130 flights a year, both domestic and International) the best prices are found 50-60 days out. Just my $0.02.


In the airlines defense, this is probably the most volatile travel market in history.  Predicting not only travel demand, but their own capacity to operate a schedule more than a few weeks out practically requires a crystal ball right now.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 20, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> $1000/person round trip in April on Southwest?  are you buying business select?
> 
> I know for my son's roundtrip from Tampa to Baltimore at Thanksgiving it was a little shy of $600.  I burned 40k points as opposed to spending the cash.
> 
> I have the SW credit card and can pay for my sons college with no added fee.  so We've been rolling with the Companion Pass for 2 years now.  so when I fly someone flys for free with me.  even if I use points.  Which I typically horde...



Not quite sure which SW fair class my wife booked.  Pretty much all I heard from her is that at the time of booking atleast, we had only direct flights, at travel times that she wanted, she booked them, and they are refundable. 

Traveling around Easter Weekend, as well as a time when so many schools in the Northeast have their spring breaks, certainly kicked the supply/demand side of the equation to an even higher level of the demand side right now.

Plus, for certainty of things, my wife is the type of person where she wants to have everything taken care of as far in advance as possible, so she doen't have to worry about it later. Heck, just yesterday Disney rolled out their new Genie ticketing reservation system, and apparently she already made our park reservations 6 months in advance!


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 20, 2021)

ok if its around Easter I can see that.  Also if they are refundable they likely aren't the lowest tier.


----------



## drjeff (Oct 20, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> ok if its around Easter I can see that.  Also if they are refundable they likely aren't the lowest tier.



I do remember her saying that there was absolutely nothing available with their "want to get away" lowest tier prices.

Fingers crossed that in the next 6 months they can get some more planes in the air flying more routes than they currently area and kick the supply and demand curve a bit towards the excess supply side and re-book at a lower rate!!


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 20, 2021)

drjeff said:


> I do remember her saying that there was absolutely nothing available with their "want to get away" lowest tier prices.
> 
> Fingers crossed that in the next 6 months they can get some more planes in the air flying more routes than they currently area and kick the supply and demand curve a bit towards the excess supply side and re-book at a lower rate!!


Yeah, agreed.  It seems between the staffing issues and people being asshats on flights that travel has gotten really weird.  It is too bad but this is why we can't have nice things.  

I also see that SWA is walking back its vaccine mandate...at least partially.  I am so surprised to see that they are really having as many issues as they are.  I think it shows that they have gotten too big.  As Herb used to say, "think and act small and we'll get bigger.  Think and act big and we will get smaller."  It certainly seems that they are in the latter lately.


----------



## Kingslug20 (Oct 20, 2021)

Basic fair...class 5 seating..last on the plane..last row...


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 20, 2021)

I fly SW exclusively and its fine. this will be my 4th time this year.  Sure they had a hiccup 2 weekends ago for whatever reason.  Its just like everything else the supply chain is stressed.  If they get a crew that tests positive that can throw the entire operation out of whack.  Their planes just don't do loops back and forth between cities.  I've tracked my incoming plan on flightaware many times and it usually hits at least 3 cities before it picks me up.  my plane today is going from CT to Raliegh to BWI to Raliegh to BWI to Tampa.  

I agree though, people need to stop acting like such assholes.  Those that do need to be thrown in jail and prosecuted to the letter of the law.  Flying is a privilege not a right.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 20, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I fly SW exclusively and its fine. this will be my 4th time this year.  Sure they had a hiccup 2 weekends ago for whatever reason.  Its just like everything else the supply chain is stressed.  If they get a crew that tests positive that can throw the entire operation out of whack.  Their planes just don't do loops back and forth between cities.  I've tracked my incoming plan on flightaware many times and it usually hits at least 3 cities before it picks me up.  my plane today is going from CT to Raliegh to BWI to Raliegh to BWI to Tampa.
> 
> I agree though, people need to stop acting like such assholes.  Those that do need to be thrown in jail and prosecuted to the letter of the law.  Flying is a privilege not a right.


I, too, love using Flightaware and other apps to track my plane and where it came from and goes for fun.  You are right that SWA's flight routes are pretty interesting.


----------



## VTKilarney (Oct 20, 2021)

Demand for leisure travel to Florida is through the roof.  This is because it's the one warm weather destination that people are confident will stay open and remain easily accessible.

I know someone who tried to book a small business convention in Florida and the first seventeen hotels he called wouldn't even talk to him.  The don't want to offer convention rates when they are booked to the gills with leisure travelers willing to pay top dollar.


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 20, 2021)

and rental cars...

I for the 3rd time this year rented at an offsite location. Saving myself hundreds of dollars.


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## Kingslug20 (Oct 20, 2021)

Rental car prices are through the roof. I paid 400 for a thursday to Monday in SC..if I kept it past 10am Monday it would go up to $1000.00.


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## crystalmountainskier (Oct 20, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> Sort of. United doesn't even let basic fare passengers bring a full size carry on. In the event of an oversold situation where they don't have enough volunteers (uncommon, but I saw it happen on Monday) basic fares are gonna get bumped first.


Uncommon is an understatement. United's involuntarily bump rate is less than 1 in 100,000 passengers. They virtually eliminated the bump after the Dr. Dao fiasco by paying people up to $10,000 not to board voluntarily. Delta routinely goes months without a single denied boarding, Basic Economy or otherwise.








						At Delta, The Dreaded IDB Is Now A Thing Of The Past
					

In the second quarter, Delta Air Lines did not have a single involuntary denied boarding, meaning no passenger was forced off a flight due to overbooking.




					www.forbes.com
				




I fly Delta Basic all the time and it's not bad at all. Same baggage rules as Main Cabin and you get whatever seats are left. Some of the time that is Comfort+ if not enough people paid to upgrade. You arrive the same time as everyone else on the plane and save money.


----------



## chuckstah (Oct 20, 2021)

I paid about $60 round trip Boston to Orlando on a recent trip. Delta basic, free bag, good seats. Planning a January trip now. Looks like about $72 R/T on Spirit or Frontier, about $100 on Delta. I'll probably go with Delta again for the better experience, and free bag. . I don't remember ever paying more than a couple hundred R/T to Florida. 1K ?  Not happening.


----------



## machski (Oct 20, 2021)

crystalmountainskier said:


> Uncommon is an understatement. United's involuntarily bump rate is less than 1 in 100,000 passengers. They virtually eliminated the bump after the Dr. Dao fiasco by paying people up to $10,000 not to board voluntarily. Delta routinely goes months without a single denied boarding, Basic Economy or otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It will all be good if you fly solo until you experience a missed connection or a cancelled flight.  If you have status, it might help negate some of what will come after, but otherwise you likely will feel quite differently about Basic after.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 20, 2021)

Just got my wife a round trip to see her parents in January in fla for $75 on spirit.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 20, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Just got my wife a round trip to see her parents in January in fla for $75 on spirit.


That could be grounds for a divorce.


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 20, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Just got my wife a round trip to see her parents in January in fla for $75 on spirit.


 Spirit is much like basic economy. If you know what you're getting into, it can be ok. You will probably get there the day you planned. If you're not familiar with the exorbitant bag fees, nonreclining seats,  paying for a soda, etc, etc, then it can be downright miserable.

Spirit used to charge a $22 "internet booking fee" you could avoid if you went and purchased your ticket at the airport.


----------



## abc (Oct 20, 2021)

machski said:


> It will all be good if you fly solo until you experience a missed connection or a cancelled flight.


There’s no advantage on cancelled flight, whatever tier your ticket is. Everyone is inline for rebooking for the next available seat. Actually, the ones with the fastest phone gets the next available seat.

Missed connection? What’s that?  I have the luxury of almost always fly direct. With 3 airports in the NYC area, I can always find a direct flight even to the end of the world. 



machski said:


> you likely will feel quite differently about Basic after.


I’ve had plenty of cancelled flights in all my ski trips. Haven‘t changed how I feel about Basic fare. 

And I suspect there’re a lot of people like me. Because Basic is still the class of ticket that are gone earliest. The only time I fly any other classes that cost more, is only because Basic is already sold out! A lot of folks still haven’t changed how they feel about Basic, you can keep on waiting for them to change their mind. Me too, so I can slide into their slot to save some money!


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 20, 2021)

abc said:


> *There’s no advantage on cancelled flight, whatever tier your ticket is. Everyone is inline for rebooking for the next available seat. Actually, the ones with the fastest phone gets the next available seat*.


This is incorrect.  Most rebooking is automatic in priority order. Even when done by an agent it goes by status then fare class.
https://www.latimes.com/business/la...american-rebooking-policy-20181012-story.html


abc said:


> I’ve had plenty of cancelled flights in all my ski trips. Haven‘t changed how I feel about Basic fare.
> 
> And I suspect there’re a lot of people like me. Because Basic is still the class of ticket that are gone earliest. The only time I fly any other classes that cost more, is only because Basic is already sold out! A lot of folks still haven’t changed how they feel about Basic, you can keep on waiting for them to change their mind. Me too, so I can slide into their slot to save some money!



Hey,  I hope they keep offering them too.  I'm lucky enough to have at least low level status on all the big carriers, so I get the seat selection, the checked bag and the cheap fare.   Do I book basic economy for loved ones without status? Nope.


----------



## abc (Oct 21, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> Do I book basic economy for loved ones without status? Nope.


Do I book flights for others when I'm not on the same trip? *Nope*!  

Never create expectation while I'm not there to manage the said expectation.


----------



## machski (Oct 24, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> This is incorrect.  Most rebooking is automatic in priority order. Even when done by an agent it goes by status then fare class.
> https://www.latimes.com/business/la...american-rebooking-policy-20181012-story.html
> 
> 
> Hey,  I hope they keep offering them too.  I'm lucky enough to have at least low level status on all the big carriers, so I get the seat selection, the checked bag and the cheap fare.   Do I book basic economy for loved ones without status? Nope.


Yup, ABC is apparently living in his own world.  I never have to talk to an agent to rebook, it is automatic.  And I NEVER book basic, often I can get a main cabin ticket for only 10 or 20 more.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 24, 2021)

machski said:


> Yup, ABC is apparently living in his own world.  I never have to talk to an agent to rebook, it is automatic.  And I NEVER book basic, often I can get a main cabin ticket for only 10 or 20 more.


ABC is a she


----------



## flakeydog (Oct 27, 2021)

I suspect a lot of people end up buying these "Basic" fare tickets because they have no idea they are actually buying.  Most people have finally gotten used to the bag fees but many still do not expect to pay extra for a seat or carry-on bag.  Also, many third-party sites (like Travelocity, Expedia, etc) offer them almost interchangeably, you really have to look carefully to tell what class of ticket you got.  Kind of like the "resort fees" that many hotels tack on after the fact so that they can show a lower up-front price.


----------



## JoeB-Z (Oct 27, 2021)

2planks2coasts said:


> Spirit is much like basic economy. If you know what you're getting into, it can be ok. You will probably get there the day you planned. If you're not familiar with the exorbitant bag fees, nonreclining seats,  paying for a soda, etc, etc, then it can be downright miserable.
> 
> Spirit used to charge a $22 "internet booking fee" you could avoid if you went and purchased your ticket at the airport.


Funny. I used to do a weekend "commute" from LaGuardia to Detroit and back for like $100 rt about 20 years ago. I bought the tickets well in advance. The flight timing was great but the plane! Kinda dirty, smelled like jet fuel. To me it compared to the crummy public buses of the 1970s. I would bring no luggage as I think the fees and chance of trouble were already in there. It was like riding the dog with wings and more chance to lose your luggage.


----------



## Dickc (Oct 27, 2021)

Jet Blue launches 3 day sale.


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## abc (Oct 27, 2021)

flakeydog said:


> I suspect a lot of people end up buying these "Basic" fare tickets because they have no idea they are actually buying.


Save your suspense for yourself. Everyone knows what they're buying into!

The airline waste no opportunity to "offer" "upgrades" for "a little extra" the moment you pick the rock bottom "basic economy" fare!!! Those who want it had ample reminders to choose a different fare that suit them better. 

Back in the days when I had a bi-coastal affair, I made that bi-coastal flight every other weekend (my other half did the alternate weekends). Those were the days when bags fly for free. But I had no need for bags. I've had half of my belongings already at the destination. There's nothing I need to bring with me on the plane! But I had to pay the same fare as those who brought two giant suitcases! (even when my Mom came to visit us, she came with a school bag that has has a couple set of change clothes, that's it!  Everything else she may need, we had plenty of) 

The reality is, there're plenty of people who don't need all the frills. Not even those some of you considered "essentials". Those are the people who're buying up all the basic economy seats. So save your concern for the unwashed masses. They prefer to stay unwashed, so to speak.


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 29, 2021)

Dickc said:


> Jet Blue launches 3 day sale.


For those who are ok with Basic fares, there are some screaming deals. Particularly from ORH. Saw Aruba for $71


----------



## Mum skier (Oct 29, 2021)

flakeydog said:


> I suspect a lot of people end up buying these "Basic" fare tickets because they have no idea they are actually buying.  Most people have finally gotten used to the bag fees but many still do not expect to pay extra for a seat or carry-on bag.  Also, many third-party sites (like Travelocity, Expedia, etc) offer them almost interchangeably, you really have to look carefully to tell what class of ticket you got.  Kind of like the "resort fees" that many hotels tack on after the fact so that they can show a lower up-front price.


I buy them because as a family of 4 who are limited to flying at peak school vacation times flights are expensive.  And gives me an excuse not to sit on the plane with the kids!  I live wiht my family, I am ok not to sit next to them for a few hours on a flight.....


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 2, 2021)

Looks like things are not getting better.......









						Why flying is so bad and about to get worse
					

Canceled flights, packed planes, rising fares and violent outbursts are the new normal for air travel. Flying is getting worse for both passengers and crews.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Nov 2, 2021)

i booked on american for my idaho trip. basic fares but booked with miles and i am an American airlines credit card holder so i get whatever clout that bestows., i am flying on a non-holiday Wednesday and Monday. my flight out of newark is at 5 AM, and in my experience those first flights of the day are least likely to be fucked up. some tight connections in dallas in both directions. fingers crossed


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## machski (Dec 11, 2021)

For all of you Basic Economy fare fans, be careful on Delta now.  Pretty much all the pandemic refunds are gone, a cancelled Basic ticket will only net you a partial credit on your Delta account and no more earning Skymiles or MQMs for ANYONE on Basic fares.


----------



## Edd (Dec 11, 2021)

Ah man. Haven’t flown since Covid got going. Considering a trip to Greece in April but I’m so unexcited to hop on a plane now. I used to love it.


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## Zand (Dec 11, 2021)

Edd said:


> Ah man. Haven’t flown since Covid got going. Considering a trip to Greece in April but I’m so unexcited to hop on a plane now. I used to love it.


Honestly during the height of Covid, flying was great. No lines, uncrowded airports, rows to yourself on the plane. 

Now...not so much.


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 11, 2021)

Zand said:


> Honestly during the height of Covid, flying was great. No lines, uncrowded airports, rows to yourself on the plane.
> 
> Now...not so much.


Thats the funny paradox, the safest time to fly on a plane was likely at the height of the pandemic due to fear and precautions.


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## abc (Dec 11, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Thats the funny paradox, the safest time to fly on a plane was likely at the height of the pandemic due to fear and precautions.


The paradox is unfortunately not so funny.

Crowds is what makes any enclosed space less safe. So yeah, when very few people are flying, it's safer than when a lot of people are flying. Matter of probability. You can't catch Covid when there's no one around to give it to you...

But planes can't fly half empty without charging a lot more. So a paradox it is...


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## thetrailboss (Feb 2, 2022)

The Wall Street Journal named JetBlue the worst airline of 2021
					

JetBlue was the worst airline in the U.S. in 2021, according to The Wall Street Journal. Read on Boston.com.



					www.boston.com


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## abc (Feb 2, 2022)

Don't you wish there's a similar ranking of ski resorts too? How long the average lift line, what percentage of runs are open, etc.


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 2, 2022)

I can confirm that...got stuck for 3 extra days in jh..and while that may sound wonderful..for me..its expensive..and my wife had to work out if tiny hotel room...everyone else got out saturday on united.
Oh..dont ever deal with expedia either...


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## abc (Feb 2, 2022)

Where does Expedia come into the picture? Or did you buy your flight from Expedia?


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 2, 2022)

I had to book through them...so..you call the airline..they say call expedia..you call expedia..they say call the airline. Our flights get changed..all is good.
Tuesday morning we are packed..checked out...taxi coming. I get an email from expedia..your flights are cancelled. Call expedia..put on hold too long..call airline..put on hold too long. So we had to book new flights on a different airline. We get to the airport..original flights not cancelled..call airline..nope, they never cancelled them. Spent an hour today on phone with expedia. They tried everything to blame us..then just hung up. Ill be suing them for this. We are on the hook for all flights now.


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 2, 2022)

Our skis are somewhere ..else..as well...
Hoping fedex delivers them..sometime.
This ended poorly.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 2, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Our skis are somewhere ..else..as well...
> Hoping fedex delivers them..sometime.
> This ended poorly.


Sounds like a nightmare, hopefully you can be compensated for all that trouble.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 2, 2022)

abc said:


> Don't you wish there's a similar ranking of ski resorts too? How long the average lift line, what percentage of runs are open, etc.


Yes.  Why don't we?  Because the ski media is beholden to ski areas for $$$$ and can't be objective.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 2, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> I had to book through them...so..you call the airline..they say call expedia..you call expedia..they say call the airline. Our flights get changed..all is good.
> Tuesday morning we are packed..checked out...taxi coming. I get an email from expedia..your flights are cancelled. Call expedia..put on hold too long..call airline..put on hold too long. So we had to book new flights on a different airline. We get to the airport..original flights not cancelled..call airline..nope, they never cancelled them. Spent an hour today on phone with expedia. They tried everything to blame us..then just hung up. Ill be suing them for this. We are on the hook for all flights now.


WTF?  An airline tells you to go to a third-party travel site as a remedy?  What was that agent smoking?


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 3, 2022)

If you book through expedia you are on the bottom of the barrel with the airline..you cant talk to them. 
I had no choice..it was the only way to time it with everyone else.


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## tumbler (Feb 3, 2022)

Had similar experience a few years ago with flight and rental car issues booking through 3rd party.  Will always now book through airline and rental car agency.


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## machski (Feb 3, 2022)

If you book on a third party site to save a few $$, in the end you get what you paid for.  Might work out a few times, but the one time it doesn't makes the bit of savings so not worth it in the end.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 3, 2022)

i use expedia religiously for hotels and have never had an issue and have banked hundreds (thousands?) of rewards dollars over the years. i would never ever use them for a flight. I've had no issues ever using them for cars.


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## abc (Feb 3, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> I had to book through them...so..you call the airline..they say call expedia..you call expedia..they say call the airline.


That's always my fear.

Always book directly with the airline. Just one party to deal with when weather play nasty etc. Besides, I also don't often see any big savings booking flights through 3rd party either. So, lots of risk, little benefit.

Also avoid 3rd party rental car too. If flights are late, it gets iffy. Book directly with rental car company. They typically hold the car when flights are delay. If flights got cancelled, I'm not out any money either. No hassle extension in case return flight got cancelled. However, that security may end up costing a bit extra.

Hotel is the only thing I book through expedia/hotel/booking.com. There, the saving tend to be bigger too. And risk relatively low. (except the first night, which I typically book directly with hotel). That said, I'm also on some hotel loyalty program, which means I get the reward directly with the hotel chain when I book direct. Again, easier cancellation or change without having to deal with 3rd party. 

As you can tell, I use 3rd party booking only some of the time. 

Last but not least, buy travel insurance. Haven't claim so far yet. Knock on wood.


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 3, 2022)

I didnt want to..but i needed to time our arrival with the group and it was the only way..
Never again


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 3, 2022)

Found the padt flight info online..both flights left and arrived on time..i think i have enough to take them to court now.
On hold with them now...


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## Smellytele (Feb 3, 2022)

Kingslug20 said:


> Found the padt flight info online..both flights left and arrived on time..i think i have enough to take them to court now.
> On hold with them now...


After lawyer fees you’ll get $50


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 3, 2022)

Small claims court..plus we have a law plan..its paid for already..like having a lawyer on retainer...we will get..everything


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## abc (Feb 3, 2022)

If Expedia sent you an email saying the flight was cancelled, you're entitled to refund of that flight, I would think. Whether the flight actually took off or not is irrelevant. You were advised not to take the flight. Hence a refund should be due. 

Probably no need to involve lawyers. Just sent a copy of the email to your credit card company.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 3, 2022)

abc said:


> If Expedia sent you an email saying the flight was cancelled, you're entitled to refund of that flight, I would think. Whether the flight actually took off or not is irrelevant. You were advised not to take the flight. Hence a refund should be due.
> 
> Probably no need to involve lawyers. Just sent a copy of the email to your credit card company.


Yeah if KS used a credit card that bank/issuer will certainly stop payment and fight it.  Because the bank hates nothing more than other people taking their money.....


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 3, 2022)

After 2 hours back and forth..on hold multiple times..they hung up.
Will send it all to credit card company..see what happens...
Court if needed..


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## crystalmountainskier (Feb 3, 2022)

Chargebacks and lawsuits are rarely the best ways to handle these things. Having recently lost a legitimate chargeback to Priceline, I'd suggest writing to Expedia with exactly what happened and copies of the cancellation correspondence, your new flight receipts, etc. There's something to be said for written communication, even if by email. 





__





						Expedia Customer Service Contacts
					

These are the customer service and executive contacts for Expedia brought to you by the Elliott Advocacy research team.




					www.elliott.org


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 4, 2022)

Ill try that too


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## JimG. (Feb 5, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> WTF?  An airline tells you to go to a third-party travel site as a remedy?  What was that agent smoking?


HEY! Don't blame the weed.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 5, 2022)

JimG. said:


> HEY! Don't blame the weed.


Yeah, I think the agent was smoking something much stronger!


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## Kingslug20 (Feb 5, 2022)

Huffing paint


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