# Mount Snow says they cleared a bunch of new woods.



## bdfreetuna (Sep 20, 2016)

http://www.wintrymixcast.com/single...illington-Sunday-River-Vail-and-Mount-Snow-QA

Listened to this podcast right now. Guy representing Mt Snow says the biggest new thing is they cleared a lot of woods, great lines, lots of em, etc.

So Mount Snow as of now (or last season), the woods were pretty limited. The woods skiers left of Olympic are really nice. Another decent shot somewhere towards the other side of the North Face area. A short thing over towards Sunbrook. And another short, badly cleared thing lower in the middle mountain.

Question about the new woods: Are they going to be on the map? If not, where are they? The guy was making a big deal about all their new woods and I'd kind of like an idea where to go so I'm not spending my day at Mount Snow skiing the sides of the trails cautiously hoping to find something.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 20, 2016)

Peaks traditionally shades the gladed areas on the trail map, but doesn't name them. At least that's the case at Attitash and Wildcat


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## slatham (Sep 20, 2016)

Apparently the silver lining to the delay in EB5 money has been using excess personnel to clear glades! 

Based on past behavior, they will at least identify the gladed areas.

But if you love glades, then hit Magic!!!!


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## ss20 (Sep 20, 2016)

I know they cleared some existing glades, as you can read here http://www.mountsnow.com/our-media/blog/kellys-blog/new-blog-1718/

I don't think new stuff was cleared though.  Not everything out there is on the map though :wink:


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 20, 2016)

I figure there's kind of limited area for woods at Mt Snow because for the most part their trails are so dense there's not a lot of "woods" in between. But if they cut a bunch of short shots all over the place it would make the mountain a lot more fun.


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## chuckstah (Sep 20, 2016)

Various old maps on this site show glades that were on map at one time or another at Mt Snow and elsewhere.
https://skimap.org/SkiAreas/view/210


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## Tin (Sep 20, 2016)




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## ss20 (Sep 20, 2016)

The fact that this thread had 6 posts before getting a post like ^^^^^ amazed me.  Proof that Alpinezone is still in summer mode.  

There's no such this as tree skiing south of Killington, other than at the most amazing mountain in the entire skiing universe which represents all that is good and wholesome, Magic.  Besides that, tree skiing doesn't exist.  The wild unicorns attack the gapers unlucky enough to enter such woods.  It's all flatly groomed boulevards with higher person-to-trail densities than an 1890s Manhatten Tenement building.  The only place worthy of skiing south of the VT/NH border is Sundown, which reigns king of the Flatlands.  All other Flatland ski areas are mere mortals compared to the godliness of ski Sundown, where the moguls are always round on it's 500 feet of insane vertical gnarliness.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 20, 2016)

Thanks for the post and the link to the podcast.  I have recently discovered it and enjoy it.  However, whenever I listen on iTunes at work I cannot pause it and have to listen all the way through or lose it.  :?:


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## thetrailboss (Sep 20, 2016)

ss20 said:


> The fact that this thread had 6 posts before getting a post like ^^^^^ amazed me.  Proof that Alpinezone is still in summer mode.
> 
> There's no such this as tree skiing south of Killington, other than at the most amazing mountain in the entire skiing universe which represents all that is good and wholesome, Magic.  Besides that, tree skiing doesn't exist.  The wild unicorns attack the gapers unlucky enough to enter such woods.  It's all flatly groomed boulevards with higher person-to-trail densities than an 1890s Manhatten Tenement building.  The only place worthy of skiing south of the VT/NH border is Sundown, which reigns king of the Flatlands.  All other Flatland ski areas are mere mortals compared to the godliness of ski Sundown, where the moguls are always round on it's 500 feet of insane vertical gnarliness.



It has been a really long time since there were any Sundown threads.


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## ss20 (Sep 20, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> It has been a really long time since there were any Sundown threads.



Everyone got offended by that stupid discussion on the Satin's Stairway double diamond rating :smash:


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 20, 2016)

Mount Snow is pretty lacking in tree skiing besides Olympic woods which IMO ranks up there with the good stuff. Steepish and tight up top, opening up gradually, and covering most of the vert of the North Face pod.

If they open up something new rivaling that I'll be impressed. I just don't see where they'd put it.


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## tree_skier (Sep 21, 2016)

my guess is they cleaned up some of the "official" and well used "Unofficial" areas.  There was a lot of blow down and ice damage going back more then a few years especially in sap tapper, the plunge and dark side of the moon.  Also Moose Hood went from 30 yards wide to a single toboggan track.  So clearing up those would big help.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 21, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Everyone got offended by that stupid discussion on the Satin's Stairway double diamond rating :smash:



Dude, every trail out here I ski I ask myself, "is this like Satan's Stairway?"


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 21, 2016)

Sundown in the "right" frame of mind can be fun. Lots of laps, but midweek skiing can be had. You just need to set your expectations....


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## thetrailboss (Sep 21, 2016)

sugarbushskier said:


> Sundown in the "right" frame of mind can be fun. Lots of laps, but midweek skiing can be had. You just need to set your expectations....



Exactly.


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## reefer (Sep 21, 2016)

tree_skier said:


> my guess is they cleaned up some of the "official" and well used "Unofficial" areas.  There was a lot of blow down and ice damage going back more then a few years especially in sap tapper, the plunge and dark side of the moon.  Also Moose Hood went from 30 yards wide to a single toboggan track.  So clearing up those would big help.




X2. Plus Fantasticks. I'll say 7/8 years of neglect (at least). They were in tough shape. I was thinking of setting up some type of work day because I was skiing there a lot back then, but then I re-discovered Magic..........................
A couple of those pics. on the blog are definitely Sap Tapper and Fantasticks.


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## Highway Star (Sep 21, 2016)

ss20 said:


> The fact that this thread had 6 posts before getting a post like ^^^^^ amazed me.  Proof that Alpinezone is still in summer mode.
> 
> There's no such this as tree skiing south of Killington, other than at the most amazing mountain in the entire skiing universe which represents all that is good and wholesome, Magic.  Besides that, tree skiing doesn't exist.  The wild unicorns attack the gapers unlucky enough to enter such woods.  It's all flatly groomed boulevards with higher person-to-trail densities than an 1890s Manhatten Tenement building.  The only place worthy of skiing south of the VT/NH border is Sundown, which reigns king of the Flatlands.  All other Flatland ski areas are mere mortals compared to the godliness of ski Sundown, where the moguls are always round on it's 500 feet of insane vertical gnarliness.



Actually there's no really decent reliable tree skiing south of Stratton.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 21, 2016)

ss20 said:


> I know they cleared some existing glades, as you can read here http://www.mountsnow.com/our-media/blog/kellys-blog/new-blog-1718/
> 
> I don't think new stuff was cleared though.  Not everything out there is on the map though :wink:



Missed this response before. Didn't realize I got an answer to the question.. thanks!


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## DJAK (Sep 22, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> Thanks for the post and the link to the podcast.  I have recently discovered it and enjoy it.  However, whenever I listen on iTunes at work I cannot pause it and have to listen all the way through or lose it.  :?:



Feel free to toss out topic ideas. Unfortunately since it's my hobby not my FT job (plus raising kids) I have to keep the time I sink into it under control, but still always interested to hear topic suggestions. Season 3 should be underway in early October in some fashion.


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## Jcb890 (Sep 22, 2016)

Do we have any nice wide-open glades/tree runs at New England mountains?  We might, I haven't found any... I would love to though!


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## Smellytele (Sep 22, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Do we have any nice wide-open glades/tree runs at New England mountains?  We might, I haven't found any... I would love to though!



Saddleback RIP


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Do we have any nice wide-open glades/tree runs at New England mountains?  We might, I haven't found any... I would love to though!



Probably some of the stuff at Bretton Woods. I don't have a ton of experience with their trees as the times I've skied there have been early and late season. I do recall seeing some pretty wide open glades there.


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## Jcb890 (Sep 22, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Probably some of the stuff at Bretton Woods. I don't have a ton of experience with their trees as the times I've skied there have been early and late season. I do recall seeing some pretty wide open glades there.



I've never been but an old co-worker was always trying to get me to go there.  Its a shame NH lift tickets seem tough to get good deals on.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

I agree. That's the primary reason I've never skied there mid season


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 22, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Do we have any nice wide-open glades/tree runs at New England mountains?  We might, I haven't found any... I would love to though!



Timbuktu and Beaver Pond @ Jay
Semi Tough Woods @ Mt Ellen
some of the stuff at Killington is fairly wide
Poma Woods @ Pico
Doug's @ Bolton
Avalanche @ Bromley

just a few off the top of my head... actually Magic has a couple wider woods areas too


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## Jully (Sep 22, 2016)

I second Pico for sure. Oz at SR as well (if that can be defined as tree skiing). It was designed mimic a 'western' style if I'm not mistaken.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

Jully said:


> I second Pico for sure. Oz at SR as well (if that can be defined as tree skiing). It was designed mimic a 'western' style if I'm not mistaken.



Oz is perhaps the single biggest travesty in trail design in New England.  That or Dipper or Ovation at Killington.  Ovation would have been great as two narrow trails with glades in-between


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 22, 2016)

I like lower Ovation.. one of the steepest groomed pitches. The top part is usually only half groomed and the other half is windblown death cookies, so that's kind of a waste.

To add to the list, though not New England proper, nor have I skied it myself, but Sugar Valley Glades at Whiteface looked like a wide open and lengthy one based on the map and YouTube footage.

And Brackett Basin at Sugarloaf fits the bill for sure.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 22, 2016)

But yeah this is Saddleback..

View attachment 20682


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I like lower Ovation.. one of the steepest groomed pitches. The top part is usually only half groomed and the other half is windblown death cookies, so that's kind of a waste.
> 
> .



That's kind of my point. It's seldom good wall to wall.  Skiers right is often a mess. If you had two trails with trees in-between acting as a wind break I bet overall the terrain would ski better.


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## WoodCore (Sep 22, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> That's kind of my point. It's seldom good wall to wall.  Skiers right is often a mess. If you had two trails with trees in-between acting as a wind break I bet overall the terrain would ski better.



Kinda like what they are/were doing with Freefall at Smuggs. It's been a while since I've skied it but last time there was an island of brush they were letting grow in the center of the headwall. 

Freefall isn't open all that often but when it is open and in prime condition....... OMG (excuse my drool)! When the snow is good, I'll argue that Smuggs has far and away the best lift accessed terrain in New England!


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## deadheadskier (Sep 22, 2016)

Yup. If K tried to do the same with Ovation it would be so much better.  The challenge in doing so is they'd likely have to cut snowmaking back due to how hard man-made eats up trees.


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## dlague (Sep 23, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> I've never been but an old co-worker was always trying to get me to go there.  Its a shame NH lift tickets seem tough to get good deals on.



We generally skied Bretton Woods on Sunday afternoon for $25 because my brother in law lives in Coos County.  That and The Ride and Ski Card had a tour stop there as well.  

As far as wide open glades - Bretton Woods definitely has them.  Low angle for many but not all.  Others that come to mind are Jay Peak, Saddleback, Sugarbush, Owls Head, Cannon has a few, Ragged, Crotched, Pats, and if I think harder there are others, oh Magic.


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## dlague (Sep 23, 2016)

WoodCore said:


> Kinda like what they are/were doing with Freefall at Smuggs. It's been a while since I've skied it but last time there was an island of brush they were letting grow in the center of the headwall.
> 
> Freefall isn't open all that often but when it is open and in prime condition....... OMG (excuse my drool)! When the snow is good, I'll argue that Smuggs has far and away the best lift accessed terrain in New England!



Can't argue about the terrain but when the snow is good the darn lift line are good too - good and long.

They do have a great value proposition with the lift ticket be considerably less than others in that area.  Can say the same about Jay and Burke.


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## machski (Sep 23, 2016)

Oz is a mismatch, the original trails are a disaster (other than Ruby Palace) but Poppy Fields is how it should have been done.  Wide open trees at SR include Blind Ambition, Yettiville, Flying Monkey and Last Tango.


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## DJAK (Sep 23, 2016)

Not heart pumping obviously, but second the Bretton Woods mention. If you are trying to get an intermediate comfortable in the trees before a trip to Steamboat for example, the BW trees are some of the best for introducing a newb to that side of the sport.


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## slatham (Sep 23, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Timbuktu and Beaver Pond @ Jay
> Semi Tough Woods @ Mt Ellen
> some of the stuff at Killington is fairly wide
> Poma Woods @ Pico
> ...



Re: Magic I'd argue all the glades are pretty tight and not wide open. However, Twilight Zone and Goniff would likely qualify. They look like trails on the map but are heavily treed - so much so that on Google maps they're hard to find.


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## Smellytele (Sep 23, 2016)

slatham said:


> Re: Magic I'd argue all the glades are pretty tight and not wide open. However, Twilight Zone and Goniff would likely qualify. They look like trails on the map but are heavily treed - so much so that on Google maps they're hard to find.



Not sure what everyone's definition of tight is but most woods I skied at Magic weren't what I consider tight. When I think tight I think skiing down the stream bed off of Pole cat at Wildcat or some of the top glades at Cannon (global warming glade for example)


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 23, 2016)

Ya I wasn't meaning "wide" as in low tree density. I meant wide as in you can literally traverse across the mountain for a while and still be in the glade. As opposed to some narrow singletrack thing.

Magic woods generally have some of the most tree density I've seen anywhere with a couple exceptions.


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## Jully (Sep 23, 2016)

DJAK said:


> Not heart pumping obviously, but second the Bretton Woods mention. If you are trying to get an intermediate comfortable in the trees before a trip to Steamboat for example, the BW trees are some of the best for introducing a newb to that side of the sport.



I like the Ragged trees on Ragged proper (not Spear/Ravine) for intermediate glades too!


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## Jully (Sep 23, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> I've never been but an old co-worker was always trying to get me to go there.  Its a shame NH lift tickets seem tough to get good deals on.



The ride and ski card provides pretty good deals at a few NH resorts. VT is definitely better though for deals.


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 23, 2016)

Don't ski MS often, but the few times I have I found the woods off of Nitro chair (mine shaft/tunnel vision area) at Carinthia weren't bad. Lines were good.  Safety meetings helped!

I'm not a snowboarder, but would venture over for some fun.


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## rtibbs4 (May 15, 2017)

We made Mount Snow our main mountain this year and had some feedback from our experience.

North Face: Most people know the trees off Olympic. Fun with  mix of difficulties but we felt the trees to the right of the challenger lift line were the most challenging and fun on that side of the mountain.

Main Face: We really enjoyed the right side of Ridge. It is obvious there was clearing here. You can actually jump in and out of the trees all the way down to the top of the tumbleweed lift. My young sons loved this area and we had the most fun on the mountain together here.

Sunbrook: Darkside of the moon..definite clearing, challenging and fun but the surprise was the right side of Big Dipper. I don't think there has been any official clearing here but plenty of open lines through the alders and pines. Don't go too far or you may be hiking back up to the bottom of the Sunbrook lift.


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## Do Work (May 15, 2017)

ss20 said:


> There's no such this as tree skiing south of Killington, other than at the most amazing mountain in the entire skiing universe which represents all that is good and wholesome, Magic.




/thread


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## dlague (May 15, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> I've never been but an old co-worker was always trying to get me to go there.  Its a shame NH lift tickets seem tough to get good deals on.



Mid season is tough at BW for deals.  We used to go with my brother in law that lived in Coos County and we would ski the afternoons for $25.  Ride and Ski has a mid season Saturday as part of their tour.

Other Nh Deals with The Ride and Ski Card are Waterville sun-fri 2 for 1, Ragged Sun-Fri 2 for 1, Whaleback everyday 2 for 1 Crotched M-F 2 for 1


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## ss20 (May 15, 2017)

Do Work said:


> /thread



Glad you could find some joy out of my dripping sarcasm.  



> There's no such this as tree skiing south of Killington, other than at the most amazing mountain in the entire skiing universe which represents all that is good and wholesome, Magic. Besides that, tree skiing doesn't exist. The wild unicorns attack the gapers unlucky enough to enter such woods. It's all flatly groomed boulevards with higher person-to-trail densities than an 1890s Manhatten Tenement building. The only place worthy of skiing south of the VT/NH border is Sundown, which reigns king of the Flatlands. All other Flatland ski areas are mere mortals compared to the godliness of ski Sundown, where the moguls are always round on it's 500 feet of insane vertical gnarliness.



I don't remember posting this at all last year...it's funny though.


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## Domeskier (May 15, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Glad you could find some joy out of my dripping sarcasm.



The part about Sundown wasn't sarcasm, though - right?


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## ss20 (May 15, 2017)

Domeskier said:


> The part about Sundown wasn't sarcasm, though - right?



Of course not- they have a double black diamond so they're pretty legit.  I don't know if it attracts the extreme Big Wall skiers of Whiteface though...


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## Do Work (May 16, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Of course not- they have a double black diamond so they're pretty legit.




Pfffffff

By the powers vested in me, I hereby dock thee four GNAR points and condemn you to a penance of four sequential runs down Madonna liftline.  **Thanks be to the Fixed Grips**


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## Domeskier (May 16, 2017)

ss20 said:


> Of course not- they have a double black diamond so they're pretty legit.  I don't know if it attracts the extreme Big Wall skiers of Whiteface though...



That's what I thought.  Take the Big Walls at Whiteface, crank up the pitch and throw in some Connecticut grade wall moguls and maybe those guys will get a rough idea of what it's like to ski Satan's Staircase in optimal conditions. Does Whiteface even have a double black diamond?


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## Jcb890 (May 16, 2017)

I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but you guys make it a challenge sometimes.

You're speaking of Satan's Stairway at Ski Sundown?  That's the sarcasm part, right?  Man, I must sound dumb! :lol:


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## Domeskier (May 16, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but you guys make it a challenge sometimes.
> 
> You're speaking of Satan's Stairway at Ski Sundown?  That's the sarcasm part, right?  Man, I must sound dumb! :lol:



It would be singularly unwise to treat the Stairway with anything but the utmost awe and respect.  I'm not sure why I can never get its name right...


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## dlague (May 16, 2017)

Domeskier said:


> That's what I thought.  Take the Big Walls at Whiteface, crank up the pitch and throw in some Connecticut grade wall moguls and maybe those guys will get a rough idea of what it's like to ski Satan's Staircase in optimal conditions. Does Whiteface even have a double black diamond?



You are onto something - neither do Jay Peak or Cannon.  That run must be something else!


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## Domeskier (May 16, 2017)

dlague said:


> You are onto something - neither do Jay Peak or Cannon.  That run must be something else!



Yep, you can't argue with the ratings!


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## Jcb890 (May 16, 2017)

Wachusett has *TWO!!!!* black diamond trails.  They're definitely as challenging as any black diamond trail out there.  I don't notice much difference between 10th Mountain Trail or Smith Walton and Superstar.


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## Jully (May 16, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Wachusett has *TWO!!!!* black diamond trails.  They're definitely as challenging as any black diamond trail out there.  I don't notice much difference between 10th Mountain Trail or Smith Walton and Superstar.



I think they're both slightly harder than Tramline at Cannon, another single black.


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## Do Work (May 16, 2017)

I just want to say that I heard Magic is adding a triple diamond tree run next season.  #spotlightstolen


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## bdfreetuna (May 16, 2017)

Do Work said:


> I just want to say that I heard Magic is adding a triple diamond tree run next season.  #spotlightstolen



you ser?


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## ironhippy (May 16, 2017)

My local hill has a double black diamond pitch.

While I agree it's kind of ridiculous, that one pitch, although short, is significantly steeper than anything else on the hill and the conditions can be very sketchy, so rating it as harder than everything else makes sense.


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## Jcb890 (May 16, 2017)

ironhippy said:


> My local hill has a double black diamond pitch.
> 
> While I agree it's kind of ridiculous, that one pitch, although short, is significantly steeper than anything else on the hill and the conditions can be very sketchy, so rating it as harder than everything else makes sense.


We're just being tongue-in-cheek jackasses about it all and laying on the sarcasm nice and thick.
Trail ratings in general seem to be best used for mountain-by-mountain rather than as a standard across all mountains or even in the same geographical area.

Like my example of Wachusett - their black diamonds are steeper than any of their other trails and conditions are usually sketchy (icy).  However, the black diamonds at Wachusett are certainly not equivalent to a black diamond at Killington, Jay, Cannon, etc.


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## dlague (May 16, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> We're just being tongue-in-cheek jackasses about it all and laying on the sarcasm nice and thick.
> Trail ratings in general seem to be best used for mountain-by-mountain rather than as a standard across all mountains or even in the same geographical area.
> 
> Like my example of Wachusett - their black diamonds are steeper than any of their other trails and conditions are usually sketchy (icy).  However, the black diamonds at Wachusett are certainly not equivalent to a black diamond at Killington, Jay, Cannon, etc.



That is why you go to a smaller hill, have the wife ski a black diamond there and don't tell her the difference.  Builds confidence!  Not just any Black Diamond either one of your choosing to be safe!


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## Jcb890 (May 16, 2017)

dlague said:


> That is why you go to a smaller hill, have the wife ski a black diamond there and don't tell her the difference.  Builds confidence!  Not just any Black Diamond either one of your choosing to be safe!


I'll get her over to the North Face @ Mount Snow next season, hopefully early in the season and as long as we do one of the wider trails over there, I think she'll be fine.  Still more technique work to be done and working on riding with more speed also.  She's still quite cautious about carrying speed.  Towards the end of the season I was trying to get her to point it straight to go faster down some small/short sections, but she wouldn't bite.

I think we'll be up at Killington on Saturday, but I already told her she shouldn't try Superstar.  I don't want to just throw her into something like that when she's not ready.  She's done with her season anyways, her last day at Sunday River ended on a good note so overall I think we're both pretty happy with her progress this season.


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## bdfreetuna (May 16, 2017)

Lower section of Superstar is def not beginner friendly when it's bumped up in May.


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## Do Work (May 17, 2017)

bdfreetuna said:


> you ser?




Dead serious.  Official GNAR timeclock top and bottom to make sure you're credited too.  


For real though, it's coming.  Get ready for some pucker factor ladies and gents.


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## Yooper (May 17, 2017)

sugarbushskier said:


> Don't ski MS often, but the few times I have I found the woods off of Nitro chair (mine shaft/tunnel vision area) at Carinthia weren't bad. Lines were good.  Safety meetings helped!
> 
> I'm not a snowboarder, but would venture over for some fun.






Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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