# Attitash (Peak Resorts LTD.) vs. Grand Summit Owners association



## Gforce (Sep 8, 2017)

What a cat fight this is turning into. 

Peak Resorts LTD has been screwing over the Condo owners for years, 
1) Taking the lion share of rental income, now 60/40 “split” 
2) Mismanaging the Hotel with a revolving door of GM’s, Three in 3 years 
3) Shoddy maintenance.. epitomized by not winterizing of the water tower creating severe flood damage 
4) Scare tactic emails threatening to close the Restaurant, Pool, Gym and other key features of the Attitash Grand Summit Hotel
5) Diminishing perks for owners like drastic reduction in lift ticket vouchers etc..
6) Covertly attempting to purchase 16 low priced units while not providing transparency on Hotel financials

The acrimonious relationship has spilled over and has been on display during the last several BOD and Owners meetings.

Peaks Resorts LTD is taking a risky gamble and alienating a large swath of their Attitash/WC Season Pass customer base, many of whom also drop huge $$$ on food and beverage over the course of the ski season. It is surprising this public company is taking this position against their “customers” and “business partners”. Lets see what the outcome is, stay tuned...


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## Smellytele (Sep 8, 2017)

Gforce said:


> What a cat fight this is turning into.
> 
> Peak Resorts LTD has been screwing over the Condo owners for years,
> 1) Taking the lion share of rental income, now 60/40 “split”
> ...



Does this affect the stuff (condos. restaurant, and club house/pool) across the street at all or is that not owned by Peaks?


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## the_awesome (Sep 8, 2017)

Smellytele said:


> Does this affect the stuff (condos. restaurant, and club house/pool) across the street at all or is that not owned by Peaks?



Attitash Mountain Village is owned by a separate entity, Attitash Mountain Service Company, Inc.

Which also owns Eastern Slope Inn & The Oxen Yoke, so I don't believe they should be affected.


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## Cat in January (Sep 8, 2017)

Sorry to hear, but this fits in with their past practices.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 8, 2017)

I wonder what the average revenue split is on rental income from other hotels like the Grand Summit at Attitash?

The reality is that the hotel was ill conceived in the first place.  I bet the occupancy rates of the facility are horrendous outside of peak ski weekends.  Maybe they do okay in the summer, but it's not located in a great location compared with some of the other valley properties.  

Threatening to close the restaurant and pool facilities is probably not a scare tactic as much as the reality that those facilities are underutilized and likely bleed cash.  

I stayed there once a few years ago. A friend won a free nights stay.  We both agreed that we likely wouldn't pay to stay there as the unit clearly hadn't been updated since the place was built 20+ years ago.  That's likely the fault of the unit owner, not the hotel operator.   Even though it's slopeside, I'd be much more interested in staying at one of the mountain village properties due to the better location.   

The turnover in GMs really shouldn't surprise people.  I'm sure they get easily frustrated by the poor financial performance and difficulty in staffing such an inconsistent property.  I'm not sure how you fix it.  I'm sure many of the condo owners look at investing in the property the same way Peaks does - throwing good money after bad

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## Jully (Sep 8, 2017)

How is Attitash Village as a location? I've never spent any time in there. Are there things to do? Are the units a little more updated than the grand summit?


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## mbedle (Sep 8, 2017)

The average condo rental percent is 50%(based off of one website I found some info on these programs). Back in 2009, the rental split for Grand Summit at Attitash was 45%.


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## machski (Sep 8, 2017)

Is the Attitash Grand a quarter share property or whole ownership.  If it is quarter share, upgrades can be tough because all 4 would have to agree and pay in.  Sunday River's hotels have the same issue with room updates, though I know the mountain is trying to work with owners to get updates to happen.  Tough situation, seems like with this type of setup capital improvements need to be in the P&S contract at purchase to ensure updates can and do happen 

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## xwhaler (Sep 8, 2017)

machski said:


> Is the Attitash Grand a quarter share property or whole ownership.  If it is quarter share, upgrades can be tough because all 4 would have to agree and pay in.  Sunday River's hotels have the same issue with room updates, though I know the mountain is trying to work with owners to get updates to happen.  Tough situation, seems like with this type of setup capital improvements need to be in the P&S contract at purchase to ensure updates can and do happen
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


1/4 share if I'm not mistaken though some are probably owned outright.  Having a condo a mile from Attitash for 10 yrs and Tash being home base gave me a lot of opportunity to view the Grand Summit from afar.  I've stayed there before and thought the pool and complex was pretty nice.  They probably should have sited it at Attitash proper but I don't think the location is all that bad.

I do notice that peaks pass holders get 20% off lodging at peaks properties so I've considered checking it out with the family for a long wknd this coming season.  Being slopeside would be nice with a young family for a wknd.

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## Gforce (Sep 8, 2017)

Peak Resorts $123M in revenue. New income of $1.2M (0.9%!) and a Mountain of debt totaling $177M. Their balance sheet is a train wreck.  With those financials if they can kick around some small time condo owners on their property they'll do so, every few hundred thousand $ counts. I am afraid that's what it boils down to. 

By the way the Grand Summit was Full All summer.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 9, 2017)

Good to hear the hotel did well.  By all accounts it's been a great summer tourist season, so I guess I was wrong that that property was underutilized during the summer months. Maybe I'm just looking at it from my own personal preferences, but summer or winter, I think I'd prefer staying across the street in AMV.  They basically have the same onsite amenities regarding pools and what not, but have the benefit of being right across the street from the mountain activities as well as having the Saco at the back of the property to go and explore.  Summit is ski in and out though, which would be better for families during winter.

Do they offer a free shuttle from the hotel to Attitash proper in the summer?


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## prsboogie (Sep 11, 2017)

They do have a shuttle on the weekends I believe. Been a while since I've stayed there as I too would rather stay across the street. AMV is more bang for the buck, plus my week timeshare is at AMV so I'm partial


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## thebigo (Sep 14, 2017)

We stayed at the Attitash grand a couple times since the kids were born. It is an excellent option for young families, the combination of the pool, breakfast buffet and north conway. In fact, we rented a cottage on Conway Lake in August, wife said she would prefer to go to the Grand next year for the pool. 

We never found the rooms to be dated or the walls thin; also good that nobody hassles you for having a few cocktails in the pool. Biggest complaint is location, there is no midweek beginner terrain on the bear peak side, you end up driving to the Attitash side which defeats the purpose of staying slopeside. 

I just generally dislike Attitash, probably my least favorite 1000+ vertical mountain in northern new england. I have never hit the place with the trees open and the only interesting terrain is off the triple, you spend the better part of an hour getting from the hotel to anything you actually want to ski. Actually prefer to ski Crotched. 

May try the Grand at Mt Snow for vacation next year but concerned there will not be enough non-skiing activities for the family, should probably start another thread.


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## Smellytele (Sep 14, 2017)

thebigo said:


> We stayed at the Attitash grand a couple times since the kids were born. It is an excellent option for young families, the combination of the pool, breakfast buffet and north conway. In fact, we rented a cottage on Conway Lake in August, wife said she would prefer to go to the Grand next year for the pool.
> 
> We never found the rooms to be dated or the walls thin; also good that nobody hassles you for having a few cocktails in the pool. Biggest complaint is location, there is no midweek beginner terrain on the bear peak side, you end up driving to the Attitash side which defeats the purpose of staying slopeside.
> 
> ...



I think the best terrain is on the Bear side. They have a couple of good marked and unmarked tree runs and some good long cruisers. Yes there is no real beginner slopes on that side midweek. I try to avoid the main side if I can. Lines and lifts are slow (except the quad which only goes 1/2 way up.)


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## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2017)

Said it many times, but if they replaced the Triple and groomed less terrain, I'd spend much more time at Attitash.  I think Ptarmigan, Tight Rope, Tim's and Idiots are all great advanced runs off the top, it's just unfortunate they groom all of them and it requires the awful Triple to access them.


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## Gforce (Nov 8, 2017)

Gforce said:


> What a cat fight this is turning into.
> 
> Peak Resorts LTD has been screwing over the Condo owners for years,
> 1) Taking the lion share of rental income, now 60/40 “split”
> ...




Peaks and their wholly owned management company running the Grand Summit appear to be trying to take control of the hotel/condo by driving the property value down running the property into the ground. Peaks trying to circumvent the agreement with owners and purchase sixteen (16!!) units with no disclosure.....sneaky corporate development people.

Speculation is Peaks intention is a major redevelop of the entire Bartlett property similar to whats going down at Mt Snow. litigation ongoing and adjacent private property owners have been approached about their interest in selling. 

Be aware, Winter Reservations for non owners and '18 spring and summer functions/weddings at risk. Owners pulling their units out of rental pool so Attitash may not have access to units post December 1..


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## Smellytele (Nov 8, 2017)

Gforce said:


> Peaks and their wholly owned management company running the Grand Summit appear to be trying to take control of the hotel/condo by driving the property value down running the property into the ground. Peaks trying to circumvent the agreement with owners and purchase sixteen (16!!) units with no disclosure.....sneaky corporate development people.
> 
> Speculation is Peaks intention is a major redevelop of the entire Bartlett property similar to whats going down at Mt Snow. litigation ongoing and adjacent private property owners have been approached about their interest in selling.
> 
> Be aware, Winter Reservations for non owners and '18 spring and summer functions/weddings at risk. Owners pulling their units out of rental pool so Attitash may not have access to units post December 1..



My wife stayed there for a conference and was not impressed at all. It was during the real warm stretch the week before Halloween and the air conditioning had been turned off for the season. she was told to use a fan. Food was weak as well she said.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 8, 2017)

deadheadskier said:


> The reality is that the hotel was ill conceived in the first place.  I bet the occupancy rates of the facility are horrendous outside of peak ski weekends.  Maybe they do okay in the summer, but it's not located in a great location compared with some of the other valley properties.


Isn't that the case at most mountains/resorts though?


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## Jully (Nov 8, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> Isn't that the case at most mountains/resorts though?



Oftentimes, but the Attitash Grand Summit is an especially unfortunate situation though. North Conway is a huge bed base and great 4 season location. The Grand is located 20 minutes outside the town with NOTHING around it. It literally is only useful as a slopeside location to Attitash. If you're in the region for anything else, there's thousands of beds nearby that are way better so unless you're skiing Attitash, you won't look there - it won't even show up on most searches!

In contrast, at like, Loon, the resort is located in Lincoln, another good 4 season location. Any lodging built by Loon there would be able to compete for Lincoln's year round traffic while the Grand at Attitash cannot compete for Conway year round guests.


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## Jcb890 (Nov 8, 2017)

Jully said:


> Oftentimes, but the Attitash Grand Summit is an especially unfortunate situation though. North Conway is a huge bed base and great 4 season location. The Grand is located 20 minutes outside the town with NOTHING around it. It literally is only useful as a slopeside location to Attitash. If you're in the region for anything else, there's thousands of beds nearby that are way better so unless you're skiing Attitash, you won't look there - it won't even show up on most searches!
> 
> In contrast, at like, Loon, the resort is located in Lincoln, another good 4 season location. Any lodging built by Loon there would be able to compete for Lincoln's year round traffic while the Grand at Attitash cannot compete for Conway year round guests.


That is a good point.  I'm thinking of places like Killington or Mount Snow which don't really have anything around them for people to do outside of using the mountain.


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## Jully (Nov 8, 2017)

Jcb890 said:


> That is a good point.  I'm thinking of places like Killington or Mount Snow which don't really have anything around them for people to do outside of using the mountain.



Exactly. For a lot of the resorts with big hotels, the resort is the only game in town, so if there is ANY summer traffic, the hotel can at least compete. The Grand at Attitash can't compete during off seasons and in the ski season there is one of the best ski towns in New England 20 minutes away where you could stay instead.

At first glance a hotel 'just' 20 minutes outside of Conway doesn't sound like a bad idea. Very different in practice though!


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## Jcb890 (Nov 8, 2017)

Jully said:


> Exactly. For a lot of the resorts with big hotels, the resort is the only game in town, so if there is ANY summer traffic, the hotel can at least compete. The Grand at Attitash can't compete during off seasons and in the ski season there is one of the best ski towns in New England 20 minutes away where you could stay instead.
> 
> At first glance a hotel 'just' 20 minutes outside of Conway doesn't sound like a bad idea. Very different in practice though!


Agreed, especially with how many lodging options there are in Conway or at least closer than 20 minutes away.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 8, 2017)

The reality is that the Grand Summit isn't big enough nor nice enough to attract the critical mass of people there to support nice amenities like a good restaurant and spa. 

In a way it reminds me of Stowes old hotel at the toll house.  It just didn't have the scale to attract many people there outside of the weekends and holidays.  Too small to make it work that far from town.  Then they build Spruce and it works due to it's size and amenities.  

If Attitash built a bunch more lodging at the Bear Peak base, then the Summit could probably support a decent restaurant and re-invest in the health club and Spa.   

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## Edd (Nov 9, 2017)

During ski season, I spend the night in Bartlett regularly and it has never occurred to us to go to the Grand Summit for dinner and Matty B’s isn’t a draw for us. Too many good options towards Intervale and Jackson. 


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## prsboogie (Nov 12, 2017)

Matty B's is just fine for beers and a pie when I'm staying at AMV, no driving necessary. Plus the pool is in the building as well.


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## MainerSkiBum (Dec 23, 2017)

It looks like the Board of Directors for the Summit and Peak have reached an impasse.  The Summit BOD has not renewed the agreement with the Peak Past April 30th, 2018 to manage the association.  Business as usual until the 30th of April, then it's a mystery as to what the owners will be doing to manage the Summit.  They attempted to lease the commercial space owned by Attitash, but could not come up with the security amount requested by Peak and disagreed on the amount requested.  Looks like without an agreement to manage the whole place, Peak is not interested in supporting the amenities at the Summit after the 30th.  No group space, no F&B.  Just a condo hotel with a pool.  Peak did try to buy units, not in a sneaky way as the BOD has a first right of refusal to buy the units before any sale.  The BOD did not want to buy units and were in fear of Peak buying units so they are attempting to stop the sale.  Crazy as many owners want to sell and their are hardly any buyers for 1/4 share anymore.  If you have read Ski Inc. (https://www.amazon.com/SKI-INC-ski-resort-entrepreneurs-mega-companies-ebook/dp/B01N2X7K6J) it describes how the quarter share concept of the Grand Summit Chain partly was responsible for bringing down American Ski Corp.  Some are doing well, like Park City, other are struggling....  

I have been a  former owner at the Summit and Guest, I hope the BOD and Peak can work together, as it would be a shame for the Summit to collapse into financial ruin...


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## machski (Dec 23, 2017)

MainerSkiBum said:


> It looks like the Board of Directors for the Summit and Peak have reached an impasse.  The Summit BOD has not renewed the agreement with the Peak Past April 30th, 2018 to manage the association.  Business as usual until the 30th of April, then it's a mystery as to what the owners will be doing to manage the Summit.  They attempted to lease the commercial space owned by Attitash, but could not come up with the security amount requested by Peak and disagreed on the amount requested.  Looks like without an agreement to manage the whole place, Peak is not interested in supporting the amenities at the Summit after the 30th.  No group space, no F&B.  Just a condo hotel with a pool.  Peak did try to buy units, not in a sneaky way as the BOD has a first right of refusal to buy the units before any sale.  The BOD did not want to buy units and were in fear of Peak buying units so they are attempting to stop the sale.  Crazy as many owners want to sell and their are hardly any buyers for 1/4 share anymore.  If you have read Ski Inc. (https://www.amazon.com/SKI-INC-ski-resort-entrepreneurs-mega-companies-ebook/dp/B01N2X7K6J) it describes how the quarter share concept of the Grand Summit Chain partly was responsible for bringing down American Ski Corp.  Some are doing well, like Park City, other are struggling....
> 
> I have been a  former owner at the Summit and Guest, I hope the BOD and Peak can work together, as it would be a shame for the Summit to collapse into financial ruin...


Sorry to hear this, the Grand Summit and Jordan at SR seem to be doing well.  I have never heard that about the quarter share hotels being a major factor in ASC's failure.  And they sure as heck are not the only resort company to have had Quarter Share hotels (most of New England has examples at many resorts).  

Hope things work out.

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## thetrailboss (Jan 23, 2018)

Bump.  Another big issue with Attitash.  WTF is going on?

http://www.wcax.com/content/news/Attitash-under-new-management-cancels-10-weddings-470521953.html

http://www.wmur.com/article/couples-scrambling-as-attitash-resort-cancels-10-weddings/15837151


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## benski (Jan 23, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> Bump.  Another big issue with Attitash.  WTF is going on?
> 
> http://www.wcax.com/content/news/Attitash-under-new-management-cancels-10-weddings-470521953.html
> 
> http://www.wmur.com/article/couples-scrambling-as-attitash-resort-cancels-10-weddings/15837151



I though they have been under Peaks since the ASC collapsed.


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## mbedle (Jan 23, 2018)

The hotel is not owned by the resort, just operated by the resort. The homeowners association canceled their contract with the resort to operate the hotel. That is the reason that the weddings were cancel. They were booked through the resort.


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## sull1102 (Jan 24, 2018)

Wow, cancelling ten weddings like that is going to cost them a good bit, but the perception of it is much worse. How did the relationship break down to this point that the hotel is essentially done being a part of the ski area?

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## drjeff (Jan 24, 2018)

sull1102 said:


> Wow, cancelling ten weddings like that is going to cost them a good bit, but the perception of it is much worse. How did the relationship break down to this point that the hotel is essentially done being a part of the ski area?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app



Association internal politics can always be a dicey situation!!  I'm guessing that on some levels that has been a major player in this.....


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## Smellytele (Jan 24, 2018)

60-40 on rentals - Where you lose money if you rent out your condo. Also does the maintenance fee go to Peaks or to the association who then gives a certain amount to peaks? Who is responsible for upkeep (remodels/upgrades not housekeeping) of the property, peaks or the association?


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## mbedle (Jan 25, 2018)

Go to the owners website and check out the court documents. It lays out a pretty bad battle between Peak and the HOA.


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## xlr8r (Jan 25, 2018)

It is amazing how far Attitash has fallen since the ASC buildup.  Do they get even half the visitors they used to, Peaks just doesn't care.  One of the advantages the place had was the Grand Summit and now they have ruined that too.


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## sull1102 (Jan 25, 2018)

We used to go to Attitash all the time as kids, mainly in summer for the water park, it was a must along with Storyland. Most areas now have some summer component to them so I imagine that business has been slipping of late. Have they done anything at all since they bought the place? I know they reconfigure a triple over on Bear Peak, but that plus losing the Grand Summit relationship seems like a major net loss. Add in complaints from the Crotched crowd, Sneaux not making any Sneaux this week when even Magic turned the guns on... Teh haps?

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