# Mogul Ski..Schmogul Ski?



## Philpug (Feb 15, 2009)

David Babic skis to a second in Dual Moguls at Deer Valley on Faty-Pus's?  BushMM, I am sure you know Dave since he skis out of there, your thoughts?


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## mondeo (Feb 15, 2009)

Philpug said:


> David Babic skis to a second in Dual Moguls at Deer Valley on Faty-Pus's?  BushMM, I am sure you know Dave since he skis out of there, your thoughts?


Also impressive was Bloom, losing to Babic and taking 6th after taking a couple years off.

I can't remember if it was Blizzard of Ahhs or Steep (while talking about Blizzard of Ahhs) that brought up how Glen Plake was discovered by Schmidt (I think) while skiing a mogul competition on 230 DH boards. 180 beat all of us wearing rental rear-entry boots.

Looking into it more, though, looks like it's another bump ski that just happens to double as a park ski. A little wide (71,) but no fatter at the tip than the Rossis or Harts. It's the Babic pro model.


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## powhunter (Feb 16, 2009)

That was last saturday...I was busy as hell at the restaurant....just wishing I was out skiing..then I go out to the bar to take a break and there it is on NBC sports on the big screen ...yea Babic had a great run

steveo


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## Greg (Feb 16, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Looking into it more, though, looks like it's another bump ski that just happens to double as a park ski. A little wide (71,) but no fatter at the tip than the Rossis or Harts. It's the Babic pro model.



Yep. It is marketed as a mogul/park ski:

http://www.fat-ypus.com/home/b-nasty.php


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## powbmps (Feb 16, 2009)

Only 6mm wider than the Twister at 104/72/91 vs. 98/66/85.  Same turn radius.



Don't you see.....it always comes back to the Twister :lol:.


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## Philpug (Feb 16, 2009)

powbmps said:


> Don't you see.....it always comes back to the Twister :lol:.



You have NO idea. :wink:

Note, next years Volkl mogul ski has radically different dimensions than the current.


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## powbmps (Feb 16, 2009)

Philpug said:


> You have NO idea. :wink:
> 
> Note, next years Volkl mogul ski has radically different dimensions than the current.




Do tell....


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## skidon (Feb 28, 2009)

YO Mondeo - I think it was Mike Hattrup in "The Blizzard of Aaahs" talkin' about riding up the lift with Plake at a mogul comp, noticing the lo-profile tips on his skis, then seeing on the tails that they were 223's (Atomics, we think).  Da rest is his-to-ry...

Anyway, mogul-specific skis are only gonna get more scarce next yaer, so if anybody wants them, they better start lookin


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## mondeo (Feb 28, 2009)

skidon said:


> YO Mondeo - I think it was Mike Hattrup in "The Blizzard of Aaahs" talkin' about riding up the lift with Plake at a mogul comp, noticing the lo-profile tips on his skis, then seeing on the tails that they were 223's (Atomics, we think).  Da rest is his-to-ry...
> 
> Anyway, mogul-specific skis are only gonna get more scarce next yaer, so if anybody wants them, they better start lookin


Who's dropping out? There are actually more bump skis out there this year than last, with Dynastar coming back and Elan and Hart getting into it.


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## skidon (Mar 1, 2009)

Word is, Rossi and K2 are bagging it...


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## mondeo (Mar 1, 2009)

skidon said:


> Word is, Rossi and K2 are bagging it...


Not surprised with Rossi (it wasn't really a bump ski anyways, don't think I've seen a single current year ski yet,) sorta surprised with K2. Cabrawler/Mamba was one of the more popular ones, especially with women. If they had just made a longer one (180ish,) they probably would've sold a lot more to men.


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## Trekchick (Mar 1, 2009)

Indian, or the arrow?

Now............Where's my popcorn?


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## mondeo (Mar 2, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Indian, or the arrow?
> 
> Now............Where's my popcorn?


Both. A good shot with a curvy arrow is just as bad as a bad shot with a good arrow.

There are probably a few people out there that could ski bumps decently with Pontoons, but the right ski makes it that much easier. Last Wednesday was my first day on non-bump skis since I got back into skiing, and it definately makes a difference. My bump skis are just soo much quicker. I can ski bumps with fat skis, but skinny makes it a lot easier, especially when they're tight.


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## eatskisleep (Mar 2, 2009)

What is Volkl's mogul ski?


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## mondeo (Mar 2, 2009)

eatskisleep said:


> What is Volkl's mogul ski?


Wall Mogul. About the same graphics as the Wall. Before that, it was the Rebellion, before that the Dragon Slayer.


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## Trekchick (Mar 3, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Both. A good shot with a curvy arrow is just as bad as a bad shot with a good arrow.
> 
> There are probably a few people out there that could ski bumps decently with Pontoons, but the right ski makes it that much easier. Last Wednesday was my first day on non-bump skis since I got back into skiing, and it definately makes a difference. My bump skis are just soo much quicker. I can ski bumps with fat skis, but skinny makes it a lot easier, especially when they're tight.


I will say this....
I'm not a great bumper, but I have a passion to be better and have made huge improvements in the past year.

One of my fav big mountain skis is my Bro(thats a big Duh)
But, when I ski out west where the mogul runs are amazing, I struggle with the moguls because the tail is big and stiff on the Bro.
When I get into the moguls with the F17 or the Twisted Twin, I maneuver my way through the moguls MUCH better.

A few things have really made a difference for me and my technique.....
finding the sweet spot in the ski
being aware of my feet
finding my balance

I'm not a good bumper, but I'm going to be some day.  THAT is my goal!


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## SkiDork (Mar 3, 2009)

babic has really good skis


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## mondeo (Jul 15, 2009)

powbmps said:


> Do tell....


Another one bites the dust...
http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/merch...9690&Category_Code=volkl2010&Product_Count=32

I might have to pick up a pair of Rebellions while I still can.


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## powbmps (Jul 15, 2009)

At least they're still making a bump ski (even if it looks like a powder ski ;-)).  105/65/88 for the '10 vs. 89/63/78 for the '09.  No turn radius listed for the '10.  I would assume the greater curve gives a shorter turn radius for the new model?


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Jul 15, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Another one bites the dust...
> http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/merch...9690&Category_Code=volkl2010&Product_Count=32
> 
> I might have to pick up a pair of Rebellions while I still can.



I'll bet its coming out of the same mold as their Jr GS race ski...same dimensions and lengths.

There's really not much money to be made in bump skis...the top bumpers get multiple pairs for free, all the other athletes get them on a comp form, almost all you mogul freaks only buy them online when they're 50% off...I'd be surprised if more than 10% of bump skis are sold through a retailer at a normal price.  If the retailers aren't going to buy them in pre-season, most manufacurers can't afford to make them.


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## mondeo (Jul 15, 2009)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> I'll bet its coming out of the same mold as their Jr GS race ski...same dimensions and lengths.
> 
> There's really not much money to be made in bump skis...the top bumpers get multiple pairs for free, all the other athletes get them on a comp form, almost all you mogul freaks only buy them online when they're 50% off...I'd be surprised if more than 10% of bump skis are sold through a retailer at a normal price. If the retailers aren't going to buy them in pre-season, most manufacurers can't afford to make them.


But I'm talking about how this negatively effects me! No room for rational thought here!

Yeah, very similar dimensions to the Rossi bump ski, which _is_ basically the Jr GS ski without metal. Really wish the Twister had a tad less sidecut, I'd just stockpile them (assuming they're still available this year.) Might go with the Volkl previous gen ski, right sidecut but a little stiffer than I'm looking for at the moment - but might be right once I get a bit better.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 15, 2009)

powbmps said:


> At least they're still making a bump ski (even if it looks like a powder ski ;-)).  105/65/88 for the '10 vs. 89/63/78 for the '09.  No turn radius listed for the '10.  I would assume the greater curve gives a shorter turn radius for the new model?



I prefer the '10 dimensions.  Very similar to my Rossi BX.  Kind of wish I bought a second pair of those two springs ago.  

I can also see why ski manufacturers are reluctant to build bumps skis.  Might be a good niche for that guy with 333 skis to go after.


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## Greg (Jul 16, 2009)

Still some 175s and 168s:

http://shop.aspeneast.com/browse.cfm/4,3051.html

No new skis for me this year. Pretty much all set on equipment, but might upgrade some of the soft goods.


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## Philpug (Jul 16, 2009)

As I said in my earlier post, mogul skis are getting more sidecut, the hart F17 was one of the first GS based bump skis. Hart us now releasing the F17WC, this is the same ski that Patrick Deneen is skiing, the regular F17 is what Michael Morse is on.


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## powbmps (Jul 16, 2009)

Philpug said:


> As I said in my earlier post, mogul skis are getting more sidecut, the hart F17 was one of the first GS based bump skis. Hart us now releasing the F17WC, this is the same ski that Patrick Deneen is skiing, the regular F17 is what Michael Morse is on.



Anyone have any thoughts as to why they are going with more sidecut?


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## mondeo (Jul 17, 2009)

Philpug said:


> As I said in my earlier post, mogul skis are getting more sidecut, the hart F17 was one of the first GS based bump skis. Hart us now releasing the F17WC, this is the same ski that Patrick Deneen is skiing, the regular F17 is what Michael Morse is on.


Hmmm, F17WC is 99-66-87. Where have I seen about that sidecut before? Like a 98-66-85...

It's too short, though. Need a 182 length.


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## powbmps (Jul 17, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Hmmm, F17WC is 99-66-87. Where have I seen about that sidecut before? Like a 98-66-85...
> 
> It's too short, though. Need a 182 length.



Good catch Mondeo.  Interesting that Deenan is going back to less sidecut.


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## Philpug (Jul 17, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Hmmm, F17WC is 99-66-87. Where have I seen about that sidecut before? Like a 98-66-85...
> 
> It's too short, though. Need a 182 length.



No coincidence. 



powbmps said:


> Good catch Mondeo.  Interesting that Deenan is going back to less sidecut.



Patrick has been skiing that sidecut for a while. Where the skis differ is in the beefier construction of the hart.


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## jack97 (Aug 2, 2009)

powbmps said:


> Good catch Mondeo.  Interesting that Deenan is going back to less sidecut.





Philpug said:


> Patrick has been skiing that sidecut for a while. Where the skis differ is in the beefier construction of the hart.



it's b/c Deneen skied on the twister originally.... as powbmps stated, it always comes back to the twister.


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## o3jeff (Sep 26, 2009)

Stumbled across these, bit pricey.
http://www.suburbansport.com/elblcomoski2.html


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## riverc0il (Sep 26, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Looking into it more, though, looks like it's another bump ski that just happens to double as a park ski. A little wide (71,) but no fatter at the tip than the Rossis or Harts. It's the Babic pro model.


That is fatter at the waist than my old race skis. Definitely not the width I think of a mogul skiing being. Makes total sense the ski manufacturers are doubling up park and mogul skis. The two segments go really well together and I am surprised the market and skier demographics have not moved towards a better combination of mogul and park segments.


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## mondeo (Sep 26, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Stumbled across these, bit pricey.
> http://www.suburbansport.com/elblcomoski2.html



That'll probably be the replacement for my Twisters when they need replacing. I was just there today looking at them, little bit stiffer than the Twister but softer than Cabrawlers, and I like the sidecut. Introduced last year, they're Plake's ski.



riverc0il said:


> That is fatter at the waist than my old race skis. Definitely not the width I think of a mogul skiing being. Makes total sense the ski manufacturers are doubling up park and mogul skis. The two segments go really well together and I am surprised the market and skier demographics have not moved towards a better combination of mogul and park segments.


I wish there were more crossover skis, but the ski design for park vs. bumps is actually a bit different. Bumps you want narrow for edge to edge quickness, stiff tails to help recover from the backseat, and soft tips to absorb energy when directed into a bump. Park skis are wider for better landings and stability on rails, soft tails to butter, and stiffer majority of the ski to take landings better. I've flexed a decent number of park skis over the last couple weeks, none are the flex pattern I'm looking for.


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## powhunter (Sep 28, 2009)

Just bought some twisters from Aspen East...Was gonna go with the F17s..but got some good reviews from Mondeo, Greg, and Jeffy

steveo


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## Greg (Sep 28, 2009)

powhunter said:


> Just bought some twisters from Aspen East...Was gonna go with the F17s..but got some good reviews from Mondeo, Greg, and Jeffy
> 
> steveo



Nice!

I really like the Twisters. I don't really have much of a desire to try any other mogul ski. Happy with the Kryptons too so at least now I don't have equipment to blame for my crappy technique. :lol:

One other comment if you're is not interested in a dedicated bump ski, give an older Legend 8000 a try. There were times when I preferred it in the bumps over my Twisters or Cabrawlers. Good in bumps and a decent deeper snow ski. They suck on hard pack though.


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## Madroch (Sep 28, 2009)

powhunter said:


> Just bought some twisters from Aspen East...Was gonna go with the F17s..but got some good reviews from Mondeo, Greg, and Jeffy
> 
> steveo



Sweet!  

Another AZer (lurker) was ogling my Twisters this weekend and will probably be visiting Apeneast before too long.  Greg or Mondeo or whoever first tagged that shop should get some love for the AZ business.

On a side note-- Damn- the PX12s are some HEAVY bindings.  Am replacing the bindings on my RX6's (a ski that actually did okay in the bumps for a shaped carver-- due to its softness) and compared the weight of the RFII's going onto that ski with the PX12s going onto the twisters-- YIKES.


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## powbmps (Sep 28, 2009)

Nice!  Substantial savings too, I would guess.



powhunter said:


> Just bought some twisters from Aspen East...Was gonna go with the F17s..but got some good reviews from Mondeo, Greg, and Jeffy
> 
> steveo


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