# Skier killed at Sunday River on White Heat



## Greg (Dec 29, 2004)

http://www.wlbz2.com/newscenter/article.asp?id=18910


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## beswift (Dec 30, 2004)

*Fatality*

The article stated 





> possibly a lift tower.


  More than likely it was a lift tower that dealt the final blow.  Ski area personel don't like to admit that most fatalities involve man-made obstacles.  That will open the possibility of liability.  The guy was from Sharon and may have bought his equipment at Hans's _The Loft._  Whatever, usually about a half dozen people die at lift service ski areas in New England each year.  I haven't seen or heard anything about a sport related fatality on Mt. Washington yet this season , but certainly we will.


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## uphillklimber (Dec 30, 2004)

Wow is that ever a short report. A quick sensational story for the news department to flash out there. I hope they, or someone, posts a more detailed report, as details become available.

I have seen more people get in over their head on that trail, I mean way over their head. I never tried White heat for over two years. I'm not trying to inpune anything here, but I like living. That trail is too much for many people  , but that is exactly where so many go, first thing, apparently to prove their virility, or conquer the mountain :blink: . I like that trail, but I need half way decent snow conditions. 

I've seen beginner/intermediate skiers test themselves on a black trail, and be over their head a bit. I'm all for that, with some reservations. But there are those who ignorantly go directly to White heat...... :roll:


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## sledhaulingmedic (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Fatality*



			
				beswift said:
			
		

> The article stated
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The artical makes no mention of equipment issues.  Why are you bringing Hans into this?


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## thetrailboss (Dec 30, 2004)

White Heat is one of the few trails at the area that has the big warning signs at the top of it.  It is a great run, but do it early to avoid ice and BE PREPARED!  One need be a good skier for it.


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## bigbog (Dec 30, 2004)

*:........*

another tail-rider without enough skiing_mentality to know when to just _have a seat_.....


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## tirolerpeter (Dec 30, 2004)

*White Heat*

While I have been to Sunday River, I have no memory of White Heat.  How does it compare to trails like Ovation or Outer Limits at K, or Ripcord and Snow?  I assume from the posts that it gets icy, but what about when it has snow on it?


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## MrMagic (Dec 30, 2004)

does any one have a photo of this trail? i have never seen it. it sounds steep is it as steep as white nitro at the loaf


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## riverc0il (Dec 30, 2004)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> White Heat is one of the few trails at the area that has the big warning signs at the top of it.  It is a great run, but do it early to avoid ice and BE PREPARED!  One need be a good skier for it.


white heat is one of the most overrated trails in the east.  the "no fall" signs at the top of the run are clearly to keep newbies away rather than attest to the pitch of the trail which isn't that bad by expert in bounds skiing standards on the east coast.  most of the run is no worse than the front face trails at cannon such as avalanche and paulie's.  what makes white heat nasty is due to high traffic volume, it gets scraped to death.  really sucks about the guy shotting off into the woods and losing is life...  but  thems the brakes.  too often we forget skiing can be a dangerous activity.


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## beswift (Dec 30, 2004)

*Hans.*



> Why are you bringing Hans into this?


Why not?


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## sledhaulingmedic (Dec 31, 2004)

*Re: Fatality*



			
				beswift said:
			
		

> The article stated
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If you have a beef with Hans, why don't you take it up with him?  There is no mention of equipment at all in the artical, yet someone who lives three towns away from Hans' shop takes their real "Last Run" and you want to connect this to Hans. uke: 

I'm sure Sunday River's Risk Management would love to have someone of your calibre to assign blame to fatal accidents so convincingly without knowing the facts.


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## Skimaine4ever (Dec 31, 2004)

MrMagic said:
			
		

> does any one have a photo of this trail? i have never seen it. it sounds steep is it as steep as white nitro at the loaf


Here are a couple pics of the trail from SR's website


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## tirolerpeter (Dec 31, 2004)

*White Heat*

As usual, it is hard to judge the level of difficulty or even slope of a trail from a photo; although it does look fairly steep if you assume the trees are growing straight up.  However, it appears to be half groomed.  Short of pure ice (in which case the patrol should legitimately close it) conditions, this should not be beyond any advanced/expert skier.  Sometimes people just make poor choices.  It is a common macho (especially youthfull macho)  trait to attempt trails that are beyond one's ability.  If, as the comments indicate, there are warning signs/gates at the top, then the gentleman who died had chosen a risk level beyond which he could manage.  This is sad, but he did assume the risk.  Given any reasonable level of snow coverage, I wouldn't think twice about stepping off on that baby.  See you at the lift!


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## riverc0il (Dec 31, 2004)

here are some more pictures of white heat:
http://www.thesnowway.com/ski/1999/sundayriver1999.htm

the macho attitude and poor choices tirolerpeter refers to is enhanced by the "double diamond" designation, imo.  a mountain like cannon where i ski often has only single diamond ratings, but black trails range from groomed paulie's extension (pretty easy trail) to tramline and kinsman glade, arguably two of the toughest and steepest in bounds trails in new england.  it's up to the individual skier to assess conditions and make a judgement as to what range of the scale a trail falls on.  whereas a double diamond is a big dare, it's a magnet attracting skiers over their head to say they "did it."  i wish i could say i never fell in that catagory, but i can't.  thankfully, i didn't learn the hard way.

any ways, none of the news reports have said much about the accident, so speculation on what caused the crash is kinda pre-mature.  this could have been an expert skier that caught an edge and some bad luck.


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## beswift (Jan 1, 2005)

*Difficulty*

Depending on the conditions, that trail could be a cream puff or an invitation to disaster.  A lot of people don't realize that conditions are much more important than rating or pitch.  In my files I have a Boston Globe Artice which was titled The Ten Toughest Ski Trails in N.E.  IMHO the author didn't give enough credit to conditions.  Paulie's Folly was in the list for example, and I have found it rather easy at times.  I once skied a trail the day a man was killed on it.  However, it was a hairpin turn that had been scraped very slick and fast.  The pitch wasn't difficult, but this guy went off the turn and fell about thirty feet.  It was like someone getting killed on a busy city street.  It happened during the first "Gulf War".  More people in the 20-30 age group from New England were killed on the slopes that season than were killed in Iraq. I also find it hard to believe that on a lift line trail like that the towers weren't the cause of death.  The news report was inaccurate.  How could someone go into the trees and strike a tower on that trail?


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## beswift (Jan 1, 2005)

*Re: Fatality*



			
				sledhaulingmedic said:
			
		

> If you have a beef with Hans, why don't you take it up with him?  There is no mention of equipment at all in the artical, yet someone who lives three towns away from Hans' shop takes their real "Last Run" and you want to connect this to Hans. uke:
> 
> I'm sure Sunday River's Risk Management would love to have someone of your calibre to assign blame to fatal accidents so convincingly without knowing the facts.


  I think that you have an attitude problem.  Go pick your fight somewhere else.


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## salida (Jan 1, 2005)

*beswift*  stop infering things and then using them as fact, if you are going to start a debate with someone, at least have some real facts, no just your assumptions


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## sledhaulingmedic (Jan 1, 2005)

*Re: Fatality*



			
				beswift said:
			
		

> sledhaulingmedic said:
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My attitude is that libelous statements against someone whose been in business probably longer than I've been skiing doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone but you.


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## Lostone (Jan 1, 2005)

I have no real data to back this up, but I think more people get badly hurt on milder trails.

I won't let myself go on Black Diamond or Steine's, but on a blue box trail, I fly.  I think that is wherethe most serious accidents happen.  

Of the three deaths I know of at Sugarbush, only one was on a black diamond, and that was a heart attack.  The other two were blue box trails.  Both hit trees.  One hit a tree on the trail and the other had a choice of going left or right, and didn't.


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## bigbog (Jan 1, 2005)

*....*



			
				thetrailboss said:
			
		

> White Heat is one of the few trails at the area that has the big warning signs at the top of it.  It is a great run, but do it early to avoid ice and BE PREPARED!  One need be a good skier for it.


  ....One also needs to be able to see clearly enough TO read it! ....not to mention the terrain...as the "boss", Lostone, and others have mentioned.
....gotta agree with the sledhaulinmedic, Hans never seemed any different than other ski salespeople I've met .


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## beswift (Jan 2, 2005)

*Steine's*

Trying to find blame or reason in ski deaths would be a waste of time IMHO.  Regarding difficult trails, I doubt if it matters how steep the slope is statistically.  I once saw these patrollers take some stupid girl half way down Steine's on a sled.  They were putting their own lives in more danger than her's had been.  It's a consistent pitch and certainly if she made it half way down, I would think she could have made it the rest of the way by herself.  If she was in the woods, that would be understandable, but she had just given up in the middle of the trail.  That reminds me of the joke the female rep for Olin once told me on a chair lift.  It seems a women had gone into the woods out of control and had attracted help from a patroller.   When he arrived, he said to her >>You're the third pregnant woman I will have taken out of these woods this year.<<  She replied quizzically >>Pregnant?  I'm not pregnant.<<  He gave her a hard look, moved closer and stated >> You will be when you get out of here.<<


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## pepperdawg (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Steine's*



			
				beswift said:
			
		

> Trying to find blame or reason in ski deaths would be a waste of time IMHO.  <<



Dude you're the one who brought up the name....

tool


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## beswift (Jan 2, 2005)

*Morons*

Please, if you are referring to Hans, I never included him or the Loft in any way or manner regarding safety or responsibility.  You are reading meaning into a neutral statement, a matter-of-fact footnote, which is typical of  hard-core :flame:   I suggest you read the posts without your baggage.  Futhermore, I find it rather  jeuvenal to try and analyse the situation and have posted in response to that.


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## pepperdawg (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Fatality*



			
				beswift said:
			
		

> That will open the possibility of liability.  The guy was from Sharon and may have bought his equipment at Hans's _The Loft._  .



So a link is posted to an article, which provides some basic information about a skier/rider who probably got in over their head and had to check out early.   Where in the article did the writer mention anything about faulty equipment??  Yes, while you don’t come out and directly link to the shop, the context of the 2 lines above is quite a troll....Why would someone type something like that?

Hardcore flame??  STFU you stupid p*ssy.   Hows that?  Oh yeah - learn to spell the word "helmet" (othter thread) mr wizard.

Sorry Greg

Also – someone ate it at K-mart up in the canyon today.  (to keep the thread on subject)


Beswift -  "Be inflammatory and ignorant in your postings"


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## Greg (Jan 2, 2005)

All right. Gonna lock this one as I guess all points have been made and it seems beswift just can't refrain from trying to debate in just about any thread...  :-?


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