# Did anyone see this from the NYC critical mass ride?



## marcski (Jul 29, 2008)

This is just awful.  They are trying to get the DA to file charges against this cop.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiyBVytRQ


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah I saw it on Teton Gravity...but the biker failed to yield to the pedestrian(the cop)..LMBFAO..just another reason why cops suck..I bet the cop gets a slap on the wrist or suspended with pay...lol..


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## bvibert (Jul 29, 2008)

From what I've read the cop already lost his badge and gun.  Sounds like more actions will be taken against him.

I don't think I ever heard of Critical Mass until a yesterday when I read about the recent incident in Seattle.  Doesn't sound like the group is doing much in the way of bike advocacy to me...

ETA: To be clear; I think what happened in NYC is totally uncalled and the cop should be punished to the full extent of the law.  My comment about CM was a general statement based on what little I know about them.


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## Trekchick (Jul 29, 2008)

Wow, I can't imagine what is going on.
The cool headed side of me has to assume that there is a lot more to the story than just a cop assaulting a bike rider.
The Biker in me wants the cop to pay in a huge way.


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## bvibert (Jul 29, 2008)

Here is the Seattle incident for those who may not have seen it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008074874_webcriticalmass26m.html

It seems to be one sided, and there are other accounts online that paint it in a much different picture.


ETA: Here's a differing opinion on what happened:
http://arcanius.silverfir.net/blog/critical-mass-collision


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 29, 2008)

Hopefully the cop goes to jail and gets gang-raped in the shower..lol


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## snoseek (Jul 29, 2008)

The cop represents the very worst of cops, I hope he gets punished to the fullest.

But CM represents the very worst in bikers. They could go about their message in better ways but seem o.k. with giving everyone the perception that road bikers are dicks.


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## Paul (Jul 29, 2008)

This reply from Brian's second link says it best:



> Here’s a motorcyclist’s perspective:
> 
> I am not usually a biker, but I feel that critical mass hurts one of the primary goals of bicyclists. When I am on a bike, I hope that cars will respect my right to be there, and follow the laws of the road that I know and understand.
> I often read the bumper stickers ‘Same roads, same rules, same rights’ and I completely agree.
> ...



Sorry, Critical Mass is really stupid. And I'm a road biker.


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## marcski (Jul 29, 2008)

I have never seen or rode in a critical mass ride but I have read a bit about them in various mags and online.  I really wonder how many people that ride in those regularly are really hardcore riders?  It wouldn't surprise me if there aren't too many..and most are there just for the "group" experience.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 29, 2008)

The driver seems to have a sense of humor about it:



> While a some cyclists I’ve spoken with have written Mark off as another indignant road-hog, Mark says he actually used to be a bike commuter when he lived in Seattle a few years ago. “I sympathize with [cyclists’] cause. I ride bikes too. I’m a liberal hippie democrat,” he says, adding “I’m gay, the person with me was a lesbian and we were a attacked by eco-terrorists. It’s the most Seattle thing that could have happened.



Critical Mass might be fun for those involved, but if they're serious about wanting to be treated equal on the road, they need to follow the traffic laws. :smash:

Side note: I got a ticket for running a red light in Cambridge a few years ago. :-D


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## Paul (Jul 29, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Critical Mass might be fun for those involved, but if they're serious about wanting to be treated equal on the road, they need to follow the traffic laws. :smash:



This!

I found some of the replies pretty amusing. "Why should cyclists have to ride single file?" I dunno, why should cars have to drive single file, and use lanes (despite the many that don't)?


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## marcski (Jul 29, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Side note: I got a ticket for running a red light in Cambridge a few years ago. :-D



Were you riding a bike or were you running when you got this ticket?


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## skizilla (Jul 29, 2008)

*Road Rding Realities*

bicyclists on roads can get really pushy and unrealistic about their rights critical mass is a good example.  I ride mountain and some road and rail trail i do less road to be honest.  Bikers gotta just accept they are not equal on the road.  Modern roads are designed for cars it is that simple get over it.  I am all for extra wide bike lanes and road safety and maintenance features that make the road safer for bicylists but seriously the predominant user of the road is a car.  Bikers while they have a right to be there are unethical and dangerous to themselves and others when they inhibit motorists progress.  Do not think you are entitled to take over the road you will lose every time to a car I assure you.  I live in a heavily traffic bicycle area with lots of woods and farm roads and enjoy riding them my self.  But i have seen multiple times bicyclist riding three abreast refusing to pull over doing like 12 mph on a 45 mph road.  Or even the single bicyclist doing 20 in the middle of a twisty road with no passing lane at all doing like 18.  I politely waited like a minute for him to yield or pull over or something I beeped my horn I reved still nothing eventually like two mile later the road widened and straightened enough for me to pass.  I assked hime what was up he said the road wzs his as well.  I said you were delaying and holding up a line of 5 cars he didn't care.  I am sorry unless you as a bicyclist or a vehicle operator of any kind can keep up with surrounding traffic or how bout even do within 20 miles of the speed limit you need to yield to other traffic as common courtesy.  The modern bike rights such as critical mass forget this.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 29, 2008)

marcski said:


> Were you riding a bike or were you running when you got this ticket?



Doh, yea I meant on my bike.


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## bvibert (Jul 29, 2008)

skizilla said:


> bicyclists on roads can get really pushy and unrealistic about their rights critical mass is a good example.  I ride mountain and some road and rail trail i do less road to be honest.  Bikers gotta just accept they are not equal on the road.  Modern roads are designed for cars it is that simple get over it.  I am all for extra wide bike lanes and road safety and maintenance features that make the road safer for bicylists but seriously the predominant user of the road is a car.  Bikers while they have a right to be there are unethical and dangerous to themselves and others when they inhibit motorists progress.  Do not think you are entitled to take over the road you will lose every time to a car I assure you.  I live in a heavily traffic bicycle area with lots of woods and farm roads and enjoy riding them my self.  But i have seen multiple times bicyclist riding three abreast refusing to pull over doing like 12 mph on a 45 mph road.  Or even the single bicyclist doing 20 in the middle of a twisty road with no passing lane at all doing like 18.  I politely waited like a minute for him to yield or pull over or something I beeped my horn I reved still nothing eventually like two mile later the road widened and straightened enough for me to pass.  I assked hime what was up he said the road wzs his as well.  I said you were delaying and holding up a line of 5 cars he didn't care.  *I am sorry unless you as a bicyclist or a vehicle operator of any kind can keep up with surrounding traffic or how bout even do within 20 miles of the speed limit you need to yield to other traffic as common courtesy.*  The modern bike rights such as critical mass forget this.



I don't agree with this, what did you loose, 3 minutes on your drive?  If the road was narrow and twisty then where was the rider supposed to safely pull over to allow you to pass?  Beeping your horn and revving your engine was completely uncalled for.  What if that startled him and he fell in front of your car, causing you to run him over?  Rest assured he knew you were there, you don't need to announce it.  When the opportunity comes up for you to safely pass then you do so, why get all bent our of shape over it?  So long as you weren't on a road with a posted slow speed limit, I fail to see how you have any more right than the cyclist to travel at whatever speed you want.  Learn some patience, it goes a long way.

For the record; I don't road bike, yet.  I just don't see why cars can't share the road with them.  And yes, I've been caught behind my fair share of cyclists and even done some unsafe passing around them, but I regret it now.

ETA:  For clarification; When I said "a posted slow speed limit" I meant "a posted _minimum_ speed limit".  I didn't word that too well and wanted to make sure it was clear.


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## marcski (Jul 29, 2008)

bvibert said:


> I don't agree with this, what did you loose, 3 minutes on your drive?  If the road was narrow and twisty then where was the rider supposed to safely pull over to allow you to pass?  Beeping your horn and revving your engine was completely uncalled for.  What if that startled him and he fell in front of your car, causing you to run him over?  Rest assured he knew you were there, you don't need to announce it.  When the opportunity comes up for you to safely pass then you do so, why get all bent our of shape over it?  So long as you weren't on a road with a posted slow speed limit, I fail to see how you have any more right than the cyclist to travel at whatever speed you want.  Learn some patience, it goes a long way.
> 
> For the record; I don't road bike, yet.  I just don't see why cars can't share the road with them.  And yes, I've been caught behind my fair share of cyclists and even done some unsafe passing around them, but I regret it now.



Agreed!

Also you need to use some common sense whether driving a car or a bike. I road bike and mtn bike.  During the warmer months, I'm mostly on the road bike (about 3-4 days/week) with perhaps a day or 2 each week on the trails. 

Cars constantly honk the horn at me even when I'm riding at the shoulder.  It's an awful thing for a motor vehicle operator to do, since, as Bvibert noted, it can startle a rider.  I usually ride solo, so therefore, I don't often ride 2 (or more) abrest and generally, I will stay at the shoulder to ride.  However, on a long downhill, when I am doing the speed limit, I do take the entire vehicular lane. It is the safer practice.  Once I'm going 30+ mph (sometimes 40+) I want as much asphalt as I can get in order to avoid road defects, obstacles and other debris.  If I'm doing the speed limit, I have no issues taking the entire lane.  However, there are still a bunch of yahoo's out there that will pass me when I'm riding in the vehicular lane.  In fact, just this weekend, I was  at the top of one of these hills...I looked into my rear view (yes, i'm one of those geeks that ride with an eyeglass mounted mirror) and noticed a police vehicle behind me. I looked up again before I "took the lane" and he was still behind me, no lights, no sirens.  Once I hit 25 or 30, I took the lane and in a second or 2 I must have been doing 35.  This is on a 30 mph speed limit road and there is a 25 mph sign on the curve in the middle of the downhill.  So, I'm about half way down the hill (probably a good 3/4 of a mile) and the cop passes me....revving up his big V8.  I'm at the bottom of the hill within 10 seconds....to have him waiting for traffic at the stop sign.


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## Marc (Jul 29, 2008)

bvibert said:


> I don't agree with this, what did you loose, 3 minutes on your drive?  If the road was narrow and twisty then where was the rider supposed to safely pull over to allow you to pass?  Beeping your horn and revving your engine was completely uncalled for.  What if that startled him and he fell in front of your car, causing you to run him over?  Rest assured he knew you were there, you don't need to announce it.  When the opportunity comes up for you to safely pass then you do so, why get all bent our of shape over it?  So long as you weren't on a road with a posted slow speed limit, I fail to see how you have any more right than the cyclist to travel at whatever speed you want.  Learn some patience, it goes a long way.
> 
> For the record; I don't road bike, yet.  I just don't see why cars can't share the road with them.  And yes, I've been caught behind my fair share of cyclists and even done some unsafe passing around them, but I regret it now.



Well f'kn said, B... my absolute biggest peeve with cars around me when I'm cycling on the road is hardly any pick a safe place to pass.  They just pass whenever they come up on you, no matter how fast you're going.  If I'm going any speed slower than them, it's like they think I'm stopped and it will only take a quick swerve to pass.  So they pass where ever... around a blind corner, at the crest of a hill, on a narrow road with no shoulder.  It never ceases to amaze me.

And for the record.... NEVER honk your fckin horn at a cyclist.  Like B said, it'll startle a roadie and bad things can happen.  Run him into a curb, have him go down in front of you.... when you're out riding hard, you're focused and pushing.... when some yaehoo is impatient and honks his horn, it'll surprise the shite outta the average-strung cyclist, guaranteed.

When I was on the FD in my last town, I had to reprimand an EMT for squawking the siren behind me once on my road bike as they were on the way to a call.  Came up on my silent until they were maybe 30 ft behind and hit.  I nearly shat myself.

Just drive with patience and common sense and not like a retarded coke head, and we'd all be better off.


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## Marc (Jul 29, 2008)

On topic, that was a nice take down.

Critical mass looks pretty retarded to me.  I don't live in a city and detest cities in general immensely, and lack of good riding space is one reason among several (thousands).


In that video I saw an awful lot of bike riders but very few, if any, cyclists.


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 29, 2008)

Not many NYC bicyclists, including myself, like critical mass.  In order to take one step forward for bicycling they end up taking two steps back.  (Insert Paula Abdul Video Here)  That being said, this cop was way out of line.  Barely 2 weeks out of the academy and looking for a collar.  He blew it big time.  He should lose his job.


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## BeanoNYC (Jul 30, 2008)

Falsified Arrest report:


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## bvibert (Jul 30, 2008)

Well the last part definitely doesn't match what's in the video.  Without watching the video again it seems to me that the cop could have been trying to stop the bicyclist to issue a citation and resorted to tackling when the cyclist (bike rider) didn't comply.  It's hard to say, not that it makes the tackle right necessarily...

Let's face it, theres a good chance that the rider was impeding traffic and breaking traffic laws, that seems to be what these CM rides are all about.  The cops could have been standing there so that they could catch one in the act.  I don't see why the CM folks think that they're helping the cause by blatantly breaking traffic laws and irritating drivers, seems to me that they're having the opposite effect...


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## Marc (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't have much sympathy for these CM a*holes.  Supposing an ambulance or fire truck needs access down one of these streets they randomly close off?  F these guys, all of em.  They only think they're cyclists.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 30, 2008)

It's like someone decided to have a parade and didn't tell anyone. Wouldn't you be pissed if on your way to work the roads were randomly closed so some HS marching band and a bunch of floats could go down the street? Just a bad idea. 

If they want to make a show of force that's fine, but stop at red lights and stop signs and obey all traffic laws. Make the point that you are good citizens and you belong on the street. You don't earn any respect acting like spoiled kids.


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## bvibert (Jul 30, 2008)

Somewhat on topic, here's an interesting article on tensions between cyclists and motorists.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/149224/page/1


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## cbcbd (Jul 30, 2008)

Paul said:


> This reply from Brian's second link says it best:
> Sorry, Critical Mass is really stupid. And I'm a road biker.


I read that reply and completely agree.

Although I can't speak for the NYC biking scene (maybe Bruno can chime in), Seattle is so much bike friendlier than what I have seen in the East. Bike lanes everywhere (some car-sized bike lanes in downtown), lots of cyclists, many interurban trails, many good road options for riding, cars usually respect bikes... but they still act like they have this huge battle to wint - its really like cyclists have their own cause out here although I think they have already won. 
Weird patterns - if you come to a 4-way intersection and are not the 1st in line... cars will wait for the cyclist to go first. I've noticed that bikes don't usually stop at some intersections or red lights, meanwhile drivers and pedestrians strictly abide to intersection rules (pedestrians waiting for the walk sign on an empty street... yeah, weird). I was just telling my gf yesterday... its actually kind of nervewrecking driving around here sometimes... you feel like any second a biker or pedestrian will jump out in front of you because they know that they can, and you might just hit them and... well, I guess we saw what can happen.

As I try to keep to the law and be respectful of everyone on the road, it is pretty annoying to see these cult cyclists acting so arrogantly. Many people out here already ride bikes, and when they are behind the wheel they will understand and sympathize... but things like this don't really help non-cyclists care.




skizilla said:


> bicyclists on roads can get really pushy and unrealistic about their rights critical mass is a good example.  I ride mountain and some road and rail trail i do less road to be honest.  Bikers gotta just accept they are not equal on the road.  Modern roads are designed for cars it is that simple get over it.  I am all for extra wide bike lanes and road safety and maintenance features that make the road safer for bicylists but seriously the predominant user of the road is a car.  Bikers while they have a right to be there are unethical and dangerous to themselves and others when they inhibit motorists progress.  Do not think you are entitled to take over the road you will lose every time to a car I assure you.  I live in a heavily traffic bicycle area with lots of woods and farm roads and enjoy riding them my self.  But i have seen multiple times bicyclist riding three abreast refusing to pull over doing like 12 mph on a 45 mph road.  Or even the single bicyclist doing 20 in the middle of a twisty road with no passing lane at all doing like 18.  I politely waited like a minute for him to yield or pull over or something I beeped my horn I reved still nothing eventually like two mile later the road widened and straightened enough for me to pass.  I assked hime what was up he said the road wzs his as well.  I said you were delaying and holding up a line of 5 cars he didn't care.  I am sorry unless you as a bicyclist or a vehicle operator of any kind can keep up with surrounding traffic or how bout even do within 20 miles of the speed limit you need to yield to other traffic as common courtesy.  The modern bike rights such as critical mass forget this.


Eh, I don't agree, and an attitude like that is what makes cycling in certain areas so dangerous... the fact that drivers think they own the road. Granted, I have never and will never think I will win a fight against a car - I don't expect cars to keep an eye on me, I keep an eye on them), but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be on the road. Bvibert's response is right on.



marcski said:


> I looked into my rear view (yes, i'm one of those geeks that ride with an eyeglass mounted mirror)


Lol, out here I feel like the outcast without one of those or some type of rearview... everybody's got one.


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## marcski (Jul 30, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> Originally Posted by marcski:
> I looked into my rear view (yes, i'm one of those geeks that ride with an eyeglass mounted mirror)
> 
> Lol, out here I feel like the outcast without one of those or some type of rearview... everybody's got one.



I just started on the road like 2.5 years ago....and I used one from the beginning.  Now, I'm so used to it, sometimes I look up into the upper left corner of my glasses when I'm on the mountain bike.....when I'm not even using the mirror!.


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## BeanoNYC (Aug 5, 2008)

This video is from another critical mass ride.


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## MonkeyBrook (Aug 8, 2008)

It could be me, but did that video make anyone else crazy with anger?  Man, do the police abuse their power.   Granted the bikers are wrong for breaking traffic laws, etc...but the use of physical force, the arresting of clearly innocent people and then the false arrest reports...I hope that the superiors in the NYPD saw those videos and fired those cops.  I am convinence that most in law enforcement are completely insecure people who got their asses kicked as kids and now hide behind their badge.    Sorry, the video really got to me.

I did learn something, I didnt realize you have the right to not identify yourself.


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## Marc (Aug 12, 2008)

MonkeyBrook said:


> It could be me, but did that video make anyone else crazy with anger?  Man, do the police abuse their power.   Granted the bikers are wrong for breaking traffic laws, etc...but the use of physical force, the arresting of clearly innocent people and then the false arrest reports...I hope that the superiors in the NYPD saw those videos and fired those cops. * I am convinence that most in law enforcement are completely insecure people who got their asses kicked as kids and now hide behind their badge. *



Wrong.

6 years as a firefighter, and I've known a lot of LEO's at the local and state level in CT and MA, and you're way, way off base.


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## andyzee (Aug 12, 2008)

Marc said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 6 years as a firefighter, and I've known a lot of LEO's at the local and state level in CT and MA, and you're way, way off base.



What are you saying, they were bullies way back and they're still bullies now?


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