# Burke Mountain Swallowed Up By Jay Peak? Is Burke Becoming "Jay Peak East"



## halfpintvt (Jul 15, 2013)

Headline in Cal Rec for Monday, July 15th
"*Burke Resort Cuts Management Jobs. Owner says necessary part of restructuring, plans still a go."*
According to the article , four (4) of Q Burke Mountain Resorts management team lost their jobs on Friday.
The story in the paper doesn't mention any names but someone close to the organization said that Dick Andross, Joe Kasprzak, Hannah Collins and Cathy Roy have been let go. I guess it was inevitable; Burke has become a satellite of Jay Peak. Not sure that I'm looking forward to further "improvements". Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 15, 2013)

They also let go of their mountain ops director Jack Savasta earlier this year.  

It's sad to see, but not all that surprising considering that Jay probably had duplicates for these folks at JPR.


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## halfpintvt (Jul 15, 2013)

I find it very disappointing that some of the people who kept the mountain going, thru thick and thin while dealing with the madness of owners who wanted to build Bavarian Castles and French Chateaus are now being jettisoned at a time when it seems like Burke is finally in a position to make a little money. So much for hard work, loyalty and commitment. Evidently the only jobs good enough for locals are those that pay just above minimum wage with no real future.


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## ss20 (Jul 15, 2013)

This is no surprise.  They share the same marketing views and are trying to attract the same customer group.  Well, maybe Jay is aiming more towards families, but still mostly the same- tree skiers and experts.  Why have 2 groups with one goal?


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## andyzee (Jul 15, 2013)

Sad, but makes sense.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 15, 2013)

If those 4 named above are the ones that were let go, they were some of the most recognizable faces and voices at the mtn for a long time. Sad that it it happened but sometimes cuts a necessary when there are duplicated positions.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 15, 2013)

halfpintvt said:


> I find it very disappointing that some of the people who kept the mountain going, thru thick and thin while dealing with the madness of owners who wanted to build Bavarian Castles and French Chateaus are now being jettisoned at a time when it seems like Burke is finally in a position to make a little money. So much for hard work, loyalty and commitment. Evidently the only jobs good enough for locals are those that pay just above minimum wage with no real future.



Well, to be honest, if you know the history of the mountain than you know that Jack Savasta is probably the only guy that fits this description. 

Dick Andross was hired by Burke 2000 (in 2000) and was near retirement. Hannah Collins was not brought on board until maybe 2004 or so.  She did a good job, but Jay has its own marketing folks and probably felt that she would not fit in with their team.  As for Cathy and Joe, I don't know, but I doubt that they were at the mountain in the times you cite, which was way back in 1991-1995 or so.

Does seem odd and sad that they did dismiss the folks who had the most recent experience with the mountain.  We'll see what happens.


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## halfpintvt (Jul 15, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, to be honest, if you know the history of the mountain than you know that Jack Savasta is probably the only guy that fits this description.
> 
> Dick Andross was hired by Burke 2000 (in 2000) and was near retirement. Hannah Collins was not brought on board until maybe 2004 or so.  She did a good job, but Jay has its own marketing folks and probably felt that she would not fit in with their team.  As for Cathy and Joe, I don't know, but I doubt that they were at the mountain in the times you cite, which was way back in 1991-1995 or so.
> 
> Does seem odd and sad that they did dismiss the folks who had the most recent experience with the mountain.  We'll see what happens.



Thanks Trailboss, I was thinking of Jack........I think Joe Kasprzak has a wealth of experience too but I don't know how long he's been an actual employee ( I think he came pre-Ginn, they were the Chateaus aficionados.) I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. Once I got a look at the architectural renderings of those tacky hotels I had a feeling that Burke would never be the same. It will be interesting to see what kind of jobs all that EB5 $$ produces. Will they have livable wages or just be the usual " I work 4 jobs" to make a living in the Kingdom type. I wonder how much Ari Jr gets paid?


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## thetrailboss (Jul 16, 2013)

halfpintvt said:


> Thanks Trailboss, I was thinking of Jack........I think Joe Kasprzak has a wealth of experience too but I don't know how long he's been an actual employee ( I think he came pre-Ginn, they were the Chateaus aficionados.) I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. Once I got a look at the architectural renderings of those tacky hotels I had a feeling that Burke would never be the same. It will be interesting to see what kind of jobs all that EB5 $$ produces. Will they have livable wages or just be the usual " I work 4 jobs" to make a living in the Kingdom type. I wonder how much Ari Jr gets paid?



Yeah, most, if not all of these folks, were there during the Ginn management and that whole Bridgemor thing.   I figured with the Bavarian Castle reference you were thinking of the infamous Bernd Schaefers who ended his reign at Burke with a visit from Interpol.  

We will have to see if this was a good move or not.  Stenger is certainly no fool, but he had worked pretty closely with a lot of these folks for quite some time.  I wonder if this was something that was determined a year ago and folks were informed or if it was performance related because I know that JPR had high(er) expectations for Burke this season in terms of skier days.  Then again wasn't there a recent Cal Rec article touting how (relatively) well Burke did this season?  

It seems odd to be talking about Ginn failing when in 2005 we all thought that change was inevitable and that something was "finally" going to happen to the mountain.  Well, eight years later there are two new HSQ's in place, a renovated Sherburne Lodge, some wider trails and a few more snowguns here and there, but not much in the way of real estate development except for Masskier having a few new units.  No complaints.  I wonder if they have seen any change in the number of skier days or if it has remained flat?


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 16, 2013)

Burke's numbers were up this year but I still think they struggled to pull in the snow chasing crowd. It is a hard sales road to hoe when you get 5 inches and everyone else in New England is getting 12+" per storm. I ran out of fingers to count the number of times that happen last winter. The hotel is sorely need to get the multi-day skiers up here that don't want to rent a condo.


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## drjeff (Jul 16, 2013)

There's a certain mountain in Southern VT that i'm familiar with  , that is looking for folks for many of those positions, since the folks that previously held those positions were either promoted to other, more significant jobs at other resorts that the parent company owns or took similar jobs with other ski resort companies.....

Resort ownership consolidation has it's pros and cons for sure.  In this case the redundancy issue is a con, but in other cases, that exposes the main management team to the work of certain employees and then the ability to promote to other areas within their resort holdings and becomes a pro.  At Mount Snow for example, 2 guys out of the marketing department and 1 guy out of lift ops/snow surfaces have been promoted to GM's at other Peak Resorts properties in the last few seasons. It can work both ways....


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## dlague (Jul 16, 2013)

We ski Burke a few times each season and we have always enjoyed our trips there.  The top half is where we spend much of our time.  The only runs in the bottom half are to get to the Tamarack or to boot around a bit on easier trails.  We like the rustic feel of Mid-Burke Lodge and the bar there but the food - well forget it!   The Mid Burke are is where the first construction project is to start so we shall see what comes of that.

I do hope change the run out from the Sherburne Express Quad to Mid Burke Express! 

As far as those let go - well if there are redundancies it makes sense.  I have been involved in mergers/acquisitions and most often that is how the game is played.  Nothing to hold against Bill and Ariel.

I grew up skiing at Jay Peak and did not like the initial changes there but now find myself enjoying them - I am sure the same will apply with respect to Burke.


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## Masskier (Jul 16, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, to be honest, if you know the history of the mountain than you know that Jack Savasta is probably the only guy that fits this description.
> 
> Dick Andross was hired by Burke 2000 (in 2000) and was near retirement. Hannah Collins was not brought on board until maybe 2004 or so.  She did a good job, but Jay has its own marketing folks and probably felt that she would not fit in with their team.  As for Cathy and Joe, I don't know, but I doubt that they were at the mountain in the times you cite, which was way back in 1991-1995 or so.
> 
> Does seem odd and sad that they did dismiss the folks who had the most recent experience with the mountain.  We'll see what happens.




All great people.  Kathy was more recent. (Ginn era).  Joe's been at the mountain since his days at Lyndon State, going way back to the early 80's


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## Masskier (Jul 16, 2013)

Phase lll is under construction at Bear Path


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## crank (Jul 17, 2013)

I met Joe when he hired my old band for a mountain biking event at Burke last year.  He is a really good guy.  I believe he was mountain operations manager so no crossover with JPR's marketing dept.  Corporate takeovers are never a fun thing for those being taken over.  I have been caught up in 2 of them and was part of a management team that was treated as though we didn't know what we were doing despite having built a successful/ profitable business.  I sincerely hope Joe and the others let go land on their feet.  

Burke, IMO, will always have the combined problem of not getting a ton of snow and being sort of out of the way.  The sort of out of the way can be construed as a benefit but the lack of snow is very hard to overcome and hotels won't help with that.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 17, 2013)

crank said:


> Burke, IMO, will always have the combined problem of not getting a ton of snow and being sort of out of the way. The sort of out of the way can be construed as a benefit but the lack of snow is very hard to overcome and hotels won't help with that.



The last two years have been thin for sure, but generally Burke gets more snow than a lot of places in Central and Southern New England.  It does get less than the places in the Green Mountains proper (and namely Jay).  

As to the out of the way comment, that always makes me chuckle because yes it is north, but it is very easy to get to and the drive is really a breeze.


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## dlague (Jul 17, 2013)

BTW isn't it Q Burke now?  According to the Website - it is owned by Q Burke Mountain Resort and Florida based LLC who Ary (Burke's new CEO) works for.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 17, 2013)

dlague said:


> BTW isn't it Q Burke now? According to the Website - it is owned by Q Burke Mountain Resort and Florida based LLC who Ary (Burke's new CEO) works for.



Yes, it is a new entity that Bill and Ariel created.  Q=Queros.


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## SIKSKIER (Jul 17, 2013)

I thought Dick Andros was the mountain manager.At least he used to be and I don't see that job as being redundent.I know Dick from his time managing Cannon before moving on to Burke.I beleive he was at Loon before that.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 17, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> I thought Dick Andros was the mountain manager.At least he used to be and I don't see that job as being redundent.I know Dick from his time managing Cannon before moving on to Burke.I beleive he was at Loon before that.



Yeah, it looks like they eliminated the mountain operations folks and are either going to put Jay guys down there or have other folks at Jay do it I guess.....

Paging Steve@JPR to get us some info.


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## AdironRider (Jul 17, 2013)

Lets be real here, if these folks were so good at their jobs, Burke would've been a bit more successful. I realize there are special circumstances in every situation, but Burke isn't exactly the best run or best marketed joint out there. I never like hearing people losing their jobs, but it does make sense in this situation.


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## DoublePlanker (Jul 17, 2013)

I like Burke but I do believe location is a problem at least from Boston or anybody taking 93.  In fact I have skied it just once in my 30+ year ski career.  But I have skied Cannon Mt more than any other ski area by far.  Its so much further than many other ski areas that are bigger and arguably better.  It also seems further away from Burlington and Montreal than bigger and better areas.

But perhaps the combo with Jay Peak will draw more business.  Fingers crossed as it seems like a good place.

Would love to hit it again if I can tolerate the extra driving past Cannon.


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## twinplanx (Jul 17, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> As to the out of the way comment, that always makes me chuckle because yes it is north, but it is very easy to get to and the drive is really a breeze.


While Burke may be "way up North" it seems to be fairly close to I-91. I have never been there myself, as it does not have the appeal of Jay or Stowe, but have been interested after reading good reviews and trail reports here on AZ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to think there is a chain hotel or two off I-91 at or near the exit for Burke? That would be nifty if some type of joint lift ticket package(Jay&Burke) was available ;-)


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## thetrailboss (Jul 17, 2013)

DoublePlanker said:


> I like Burke but I do believe location is a problem at least from Boston or anybody taking 93. In fact I have skied it just once in my 30+ year ski career. But I have skied Cannon Mt more than any other ski area by far. Its so much further than many other ski areas that are bigger and arguably better. It also seems further away from Burlington and Montreal than bigger and better areas.
> 
> But perhaps the combo with Jay Peak will draw more business. Fingers crossed as it seems like a good place.
> 
> Would love to hit it again if I can tolerate the extra driving past Cannon.



That is the misperception.  It is only 45 minutes beyond Cannon and most of that is interstate highway.  True that one has to pass all the areas on 93....that's the major problem.  It is an easier drive from Boston than the Mad River Valley areas and Killington.   Heck, it's easier than Sunday River or Sugarloaf.  I used to be able to make it from my place in Medford to Burke in about 3 hours.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 17, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> While Burke may be "way up North" it seems to be fairly close to I-91. I have never been there myself, as it does not have the appeal of Jay or Stowe, but have been interested after reading good reviews and trail reports here on AZ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to think there is a chain hotel or two off I-91 at or near the exit for Burke? That would be nifty if some type of joint lift ticket package(Jay&Burke) was available ;-)



Comfort Inn in St. Jay is the one....it does package deals.


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## AdironRider (Jul 17, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> That is the misperception.  It is only 45 minutes beyond Cannon and most of that is interstate highway.  True that one has to pass all the areas on 93....that's the major problem.  It is an easier drive from Boston than the Mad River Valley areas and Killington.   Heck, it's easier than Sunday River or Sugarloaf.  I used to be able to make it from my place in Medford to Burke in about 3 hours.



You already kinda mention it, but you gotta admit, there's really zero added value in driving an extra 1.5 hours round trip over Cannon. I really like Burke, it has a lot of good things going for it, but top shelf industry leading employees and ease of access are not its strong points.


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## Masskier (Jul 17, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Lets be real here, if these folks were so good at their jobs, Burke would've been a bit more successful. I realize there are special circumstances in every situation, but Burke isn't exactly the best run or best marketed joint out there. I never like hearing people losing their jobs, but it does make sense in this situation.



The goal Burke 2000 had since it was formed back in 2000 was simply to keep the place open and operating until such time an owner could be found that had the ability to turn Burke into a self sustaining  resort.   After the owner failed in the summer of 2000 it was quite the task of picking up the pieces and getting open.  That is when Dick A was hired and Ford H came out of retirement to joined Joe and others.  On an extremely limited budget not only did they survive and operate but they also created a quality product and experience for their guests.  The reason Burke is where it is today is because these individuals and others were successful.


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## crank (Jul 17, 2013)

+1 Massskier. 

As far as Burke being out of the way.  Yes it is because it sits way off by itself nowhere near the Rt 100 Green Mountain ski way.  It is a closer and easier drive for me from CT than say Sugarbush or Stowe but is a bit lacking in conditions and snow.  I finally skied Burke last season and enjoyed it, but I have been skiing Jay regularly for years and every multi day trip have considered trying Burke but never did due to much more snow right where I was staying.  Yes it is easy to get to and is still out of the way at the same time.  Ascutney, IMO, had a similar problem.

Jay has the Montreal crowd and the Jay cloud, without the latter I doubt their skillful marketing would have been anywhere near as successful as it has been.


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## kingdom-tele (Jul 18, 2013)

Its been said for years, if only we could get some industry leading employees everything would be fine, people would flock like the salmon of capistrano to Burke, the most intimidating place to drive to, 7 miles of extreme paved road from the interstate, with bridge crossings no less.

looking forward to seeing the fleet of leased trucks siting idly by with Q-Burke logos, heads gotta roll, even in a renaissance


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## Steve@jpr (Jul 18, 2013)

Greetings all.  Obviously can't get into the wherefore and why re: employee moves for any number of different, good reasons.  Suffice to say that we have already and will continue to make decisions that we feel are in the best interest of the resort and its performance.  PR pablum aside, that's about all I can say on it. 

sw



thetrailboss said:


> Yeah, it looks like they eliminated the mountain operations folks and are either going to put Jay guys down there or have other folks at Jay do it I guess.....
> 
> Paging Steve@JPR to get us some info.


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## crank (Jul 18, 2013)

I flocking love grilled salmon.


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## halfpintvt (Jul 18, 2013)

It sounds like they are trying to re-brand the mountain and don't want any of the faces associated with the old "product" around.
New motto: Burke Mountain, Rebrand, rebuild, repeat!


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## AdironRider (Jul 18, 2013)

Masskier said:


> The goal Burke 2000 had since it was formed back in 2000 was simply to keep the place open and operating until such time an owner could be found that had the ability to turn Burke into a self sustaining  resort.   After the owner failed in the summer of 2000 it was quite the task of picking up the pieces and getting open.  That is when Dick A was hired and Ford H came out of retirement to joined Joe and others.  On an extremely limited budget not only did they survive and operate but they also created a quality product and experience for their guests.  The reason Burke is where it is today is because these individuals and others were successful.



Every resort has budget limitations. Every resort has operational challenges. There was nothing completely unique to Burke that couldn't be overcome. Jay is even more remote yet still was vastly more successful. Hint, it wasn't the snow.


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## crank (Jul 18, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Every resort has budget limitations. Every resort has operational challenges. There was nothing completely unique to Burke that couldn't be overcome. Jay is even more remote yet still was vastly more successful. Hint, it wasn't the snow.



Actually it was and is.


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## twinplanx (Jul 18, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Every resort has budget limitations. Every resort has operational challenges. There was nothing completely unique to Burke that couldn't be overcome. Jay is even more remote yet still was vastly more successful. Hint, it wasn't the snow.


I'm sure the vast majority of Jay Peaks visitors from Montreal would not considered it to be "even more remote"


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## AdironRider (Jul 18, 2013)

crank said:


> Actually it was and is.




Oh really? How quickly people forget skier visit totals from just 5 or so years ago. Pre EB5 cash. 

And Burke is not that different from Jay in terms of the Montreal market.


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## Sick Bird Rider (Jul 18, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> And Burke is not that different from Jay in terms of the Montreal market.



You are obviously not from Montreal or anywhere west of there. Under two hours VS 2.5 hours? Jay VS Burke? Kind of a no-brainer.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 18, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Oh really? How quickly people forget skier visit totals from just 5 or so years ago. Pre EB5 cash.
> 
> And Burke is not that different from Jay in terms of the Montreal market.



Burke has struggled to break 100K skier visits a season forever.  While I wish I had easy data to pull up, I first started skiing Jay in the mid-90s and I bet they were exceeding 250K even back then.  While clearly not as busy it is today, Jay has been well more than twice as busy (probably close to 4 times actually) as Burke for decades.  

Jay's proximity to Montreal and Quebec City compared to Burke, plus 100+ inches more snow and 50+% more terrain is a huge advantage. 
You've had people from South of Burke in this thread state they haven't seen the value in driving 45 minutes past Cannon to ski there.  I bet the number from the North that don't see the value in driving past Jay (or Bromont, Sutton, Orford Owl's Head) is even greater.  

Without the investment they are currently experiencing, Burke couldn't have been all that much more successful than what they were even if they had Lee Iacocca handling their marketing during lean ownership years.


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## fbrissette (Jul 19, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> I'm sure the vast majority of Jay Peaks visitors from Montreal would not considered it to be "even more remote"



Until recently, Jay Peak was not even on the map for most Montrealers.  Jay would only get the hardcore skiers who knew the real strengths of the mountain.   As much as we all liked the old Jay, it was not that great of a mountain for families and the recreational skier.   Mont St-Sauveur used to somewhat market Jay Peak but after it was sold out most recreational skiers forgot about Jay Peak.  

Jay Peak is now back on the Montreal map big time because they marketed the shit out of it.  And mostly, they marketed the waterpark to families, and, as far as I can tell, with tremendous success.

Burke ?   My guess would be that 95%+ of the Montreal skiers do NOT know it even exists, much less where it is located.

Burke and Jay (to a lesser extent) are seen as remote areas and the challenge is to convince Quebec skiers that they are worth the hassle to cross the borders and drive on smaller roads to get there.  Especially when you have the mammoth Mont-Tremblant which is closer to most.    

Jay Peak has done a wonderful job to market itself as a fantastic alternative for family and the recreational skier (where I think most of the money is), but I don't think they can do that with Burke.   From Montreal, there are several better alternatives in Vermont.    I doubt QBurke will market Burke to the Montreal crowd, but if they do, they have a lot of work ahead of them.


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## dlague (Jul 19, 2013)

I have been reading many posts comparing (in some sense) Burke to Cannon, Sugarbush, Stowe and even Jay Peak.  First and for most, Sugarbush and Stowe are much bigger and more expensive to ski at.  Cannon on the other hand, if you are coming from the south is nearly twice the size of Burke and about the same price to ski at while Jay Peak coming from the North is nearly three times the size and price wise nearly the same cost as Burke.

Travel wise, from the 89 split off the 93 in NH, Burke is closer and easier to get to then Sugarbush and Stowe.  Burke is seven miles off the 91.  However, that being said on your way there one would drive by plenty of NH ski destinations therefore considering driving costs distance and lift ticket cost then there are a lot of easy choices.  

All the above are based on full ticket pricing.  We often ski Burke on our way home from skiing Jay Peak.  Burke has NEK Sundays for $25 (last year) which made it a no brainer to check them out.  In addition, Ride and Ski has a tour stop there with a Saturday 2 fer.  Burke is a fun mountain to ski and we have skied it for years.  There are other resorts along the way - but I NEVER pay full price, so the others are not an option.  Finding deals for Loon, Waterville Valley or Cannon are nearly impossible!

Jay Peak in my opinion is worth the extra half an hour drive past Burke.   Jay Peak even though they are marketing heavily in Canada still is a favorite of mine and  just skis awesome especially during the month of February where it feels unmatched.  We ski all over the place as seen by my signature therefore no one resort is truly considered home, but Jay Peak will be the closest thing since I grew up skiing there.  Burke used to be the second option for us.  It will be interesting to see what happens this season, hopefully NEK Sunday is still there and Ride and Ski continues having it as a tour stop.  We shall see what the new management will do!  Since Ride and Ski works with Jay Peak my guess is it will remain!

In closure Burke will not be for all, you have to play in the glades there, charge the runs and relax once and while on a gentle cruiser and with an open mind you may just like it!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2013)

I find it very hard to think that Jay was not a major target for Montreal skiers and riders.  Whenever I was there there were a lot of Canadians.


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## steamboat1 (Jul 19, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> I find it very hard to think that Jay was not a major target for Montreal skiers and riders.  Whenever I was there there were a lot of Canadians.



Same thing at Stowe which is even further away from Montreal.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jul 19, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> I find it very hard to think that Jay was not a major target for Montreal skiers and riders.  Whenever I was there there were a lot of Canadians.



As a non canadien, you will knotice them more than just a "American". So it seems like there are a lot more of them there. there is a week at my normal Mountain, that we call Canada week. there probably isn't that many Canadians there, but they stand out to you so much more with their accent(both Quebec and Ontario).

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## thetrailboss (Jul 19, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> As a non canadien, you will knotice them more than just a "American". So it seems like there are a lot more of them there. there is a week at my normal Mountain, that we call Canada week. there probably isn't that many Canadians there, but they stand out to you so much more with their accent(both Quebec and Ontario).
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



I would agree that Jay was not a big draw for Canadian intermediate blue cruiser skiers, as the original poster said, but Montreal has long been a major market for Jay. I mean they were owned by MSSI for a long time....which is a Canadian company. 

But back to Burke: after some reflection, I'm a bit concerned because the ski area experience that the managment team had here is now gone. If Jay was expanding their ski operations, improving snowmaking, installing new lifts, and otherwise doing things to improve their skiing product, I would be a bit more comfortable. But I see them investing a TON of money into other "amenities" at Jay and putting bandaids on the skiing infrastructure at best and that makes me worried because Burke, right now, is really a skier's mountain in the winter and biker's mountain in the summer. I'd want a ski area management team that knows what to do with a ski area running Burke (and having some more money to work with) as opposed to general business folks. 

Seems sad to lose all that experience.......

And I will agree with folks that Burke may not be as close to the big markets, like other areas, but it is certainly quite accessible and an easy [longer] drive for some.  Jay is 45-60 minutes further north of Burke.


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## SkiRaceParent (Jul 21, 2013)

I for one am not that concerned, take these into account:

1) They likely bought Burke for FAR BELOW normal purchase prices for mountains. Some estimates are they bought the entire mountain for $3-5MM. They could sell off a small slice of their land if/when the housing market (as it is in Boston now) gets better and make back their entire basis

2) Investments they will make will be based on EB-5 money, which is a large loan with very borrower friendly terms, from what I understand.

3) They have co-marketing synergies and appeal with Jay (as you all seem to agree, they are knocking it out of the park up there).

4) They didn't have a good snow year last year and many other areas had a good snow year. Knowing the fickleness of NEK weather, my guess is one of these next couple years, Burke will be the 'prize' for one or two storms early in the season, and some that never have tried Burke will do so for the first time, and fall in love.

5) The above coupled with affordable hotel, condos and land will appeal, especially as compared to the mountains to the south for the Boston crowd that either have no land/hotels (Cannon) or overpriced land/hotels (Bretton Woods, Loon, Waterville, etc.).

Lastly, they might not be breaking even yet, but it sounds like they are making the cost reductions (unfortunately I agree on many levels) necessary to sustain and preserve Burke for a long time to come without an operating cost, which will drive them to have a long view (I hope) with the mountain. Lastly, it won't hurt that there's a good chance (Fingers crossed) that a BMA recent grad will be the Olympic superstar next year which may go a long way to some uber-valuable, free marketing across the entire world.


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## dlague (Jul 22, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> And I will agree with folks that Burke may not be as close to the big markets, like other areas, but it is certainly quite accessible and an easy [longer] drive for some.  Jay is 45-60 minutes further north of Burke.



The problem is - Burke is not a destination resort where Jay peak is as well as other resorts like Stowe and Sugarbush that have been mentioned in here which are all further away.  Once more mountain side "Stuff" is at Burke, then it may become a more attractive destination.  At this time, it is more of a locals (there and back in the same day) / Burke Academy stop!


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## Smellytele (Jul 23, 2013)

dlague said:


> The problem is - Burke is not a destination resort where Jay peak is as well as other resorts like Stowe and Sugarbush that have been mentioned in here which are all further away.  Once more mountain side "Stuff" is at Burke, then it may become a more attractive destination.  At this time, it is more of a locals (there and back in the same day) / Burke Academy stop!



I agree. When I ski Burke it is usually on a Friday/Saturday on my way to Jay which I then ski at for a day or 2. I have made a few day trips to Burke as well and went there once while staying at Cannon (Mittersill).


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## thetrailboss (Jul 23, 2013)

dlague said:


> The problem is - Burke is not a destination resort where Jay peak is as well as other resorts like Stowe and Sugarbush that have been mentioned in here which are all further away. Once more mountain side "Stuff" is at Burke, then it may become a more attractive destination. At this time, it is more of a locals (there and back in the same day) / Burke Academy stop!




Yes.  Spot on.


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## fbrissette (Jul 23, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> I would agree that Jay was not a big draw for Canadian intermediate blue cruiser skiers, as the original poster said, but Montreal has long been a major market for Jay. I mean they were owned by MSSI for a long time....which is a Canadian company.



Jay Peak was known to many people but the marketing effort was essentially limited to a few signs at Mont-Sauveur (MSSI main station) and a presence at the annual ski show and that's about it.  While some families made Jay Peak their home, the station was still far off the radar to most.   Having to cross the border was a major deterrent.   Most of Quebec's traffic consisted of Eastern Townships inhabitants (that were living reasonable close to the station) and young folks from the Montreal area, typically more hardcore skiers.

There is absolutely no comparison to what has happened in the past few years, with dozens giant billboards along Montreal highways, TV commercials, and a very strong Web presence (particularly this year - I see Jay Peak ads on a daily basis while surfing).  I would venture that there are more non-skiing families aware of Jay Peak now than there were skiing families aware of it 15 years ago.   Montreal families now reserve one year ahead for reading week.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 23, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> Jay Peak was known to many people but the marketing effort was essentially limited to a few signs at Mont-Sauveur (MSSI main station) and a presence at the annual ski show and that's about it.  While some families made Jay Peak their home, the station was still far off the radar to most.   Having to cross the border was a major deterrent.   Most of Quebec's traffic consisted of Eastern Townships inhabitants (that were living reasonable close to the station) and young folks from the Montreal area, typically more hardcore skiers.
> 
> There is absolutely no comparison to what has happened in the past few years, with dozens giant billboards along Montreal highways, TV commercials, and a very strong Web presence (particularly this year - I see Jay Peak ads on a daily basis while surfing).  I would venture that there are more non-skiing families aware of Jay Peak now than there were skiing families aware of it 15 years ago.   Montreal families now reserve one year ahead for reading week.



The border crossing is worse now though, no? And it sounds like Jay's obstacle was that they had no real amenities for non-skiers whereas now they do, hence the big push.

Sounds like typical MSSI with what you described.

As a Jay owner and regular, what did you hear (or see) about Burke last year and this summer? Any marketing up there for Burke? Did you go?


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## fbrissette (Jul 23, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> The border crossing is worse now though, no? And it sounds like Jay's obstacle was that they had no real amenities for non-skiers whereas now they do, hence the big push.
> 
> Sounds like typical MSSI with what you described.
> 
> As a Jay owner and regular, what did you hear (or see) about Burke last year and this summer? Any marketing up there for Burke? Did you go?



Absolutely zero marketing for Burke to the Montreal crowd so far.  Steve Wright mentioned at the homeowner meeting that they were first gonna go after the Boston crowd which makes sense driving-distance wise.  Last season, we took the Burke-Jay pass and never went to Burke despite getting about 50 ski days at Jay.  Snow conditions never really justified driving 1 hour each way.   Went to Burke for mountain biking last month and actually saw a Jay Peak shuttle carrying a trailer full of bicycles.   My take is that they might offer a free shuttle from Jay to Burke for people renting several days during several days during the ski season and that's about it.

Once you're renting at Jay, I see little reasons to drive back and forth to Burke until they build better amenities.  To be fair, I've never skied Burke, but by most accounts I don't think the skiing justifies driving the extra distance.   I can see it driving from Boston, ski the day and keep driving to Jay as someone else said.   

As to the border crossing, there are 3 different routes to get to Jay Peak to Montreal, all requiring the same driving time.  Two of those routes go through small roads where you will be the only car 90% of the time.  Yet, most people will go through Highgate which is bigger and where a 20 minutes wait is not uncommon.  As I've always taken the smaller roads I don't know if it's worse now.  I imagine it has to be worse but I would think that a lot of the new Montreal traffic get hotel rooms for a few days and the day skiers might not have increased that much.


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## Smellytele (Jul 24, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> Once you're renting at Jay, I see little reasons to drive back and forth to Burke until they build better amenities.


Why would amenities matter if you were already renting at Jay. A new hotel would not matter at all. The Lodge at Burke is already better than the Tram side lodge at Jay. Would a restaurant or hotel really get you to drive there to ski for a day?


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## dlague (Jul 24, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Why would amenities matter if you were already renting at Jay. A new hotel would not matter at all. The Lodge at Burke is already better than the Tram side lodge at Jay. Would a restaurant or hotel really get you to drive there to ski for a day?



I am not really sure that Burke's Lower base lodge is that much better!  The Taramack Grill is cool but there is not much more.  Mid Burke has the classic old school bar which is fun too.  Jay Peak Tram side has the bars like Tower Bar and The Drink, restaurants like Alice's Table and The Foundry (bar & food) as well as couple of other cafes.  In addition, if you want to chill after a day of skiing/snowboarding, there is the water park, a spa salon, an indoor ice rink and an arcade.

I think their plans for Burke is to develop it in a similar fashion but with other non skiing related offerings. 

I have to agree with the the person who posted if renting at Jay Peak why go to Burke.  If you are there for longer then just a weekend then Burke is a good option to change it up - then again Owl's Head is too since they have $15 Tuesdays and Wednesdays, Sutton is near by too.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 24, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> Snow conditions never really justified driving 1 hour each way.



Last year that statement was true much of the time since Burke fell into a snow hole for almost every major storm. However, often times Burke’s overall conditions can be better than Jay’s due to less skier traffic. Especially the days between storms (or if it is windy).



> Once you're renting at Jay, I see little reasons to drive back and forth to Burke until they build better amenities.  To be fair, I've never skied Burke, but by most accounts I don't think the skiing justifies driving the extra distance.   I can see it driving from Boston, ski the day and keep driving to Jay as someone else said.


 
If you are going to be at Jay over a non-big powder weekend, I think the extra drive to Burke is totally justifiable. Especially when the glades are filled in. I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not at least trying it once. Kingdom-Tele lives a lot closer to Jay than he does to Burke and he often skis Burke. Are you saying that he is probably just wasting his time?



> As to the border crossing, there are 3 different routes to get to Jay Peak to Montreal, all requiring the same driving time.  Two of those routes go through small roads where you will be the only car 90% of the time.  Yet, most people will go through Highgate which is bigger and where a 20 minutes wait is not uncommon.  As I've always taken the smaller roads I don't know if it's worse now.  I imagine it has to be worse but I would think that a lot of the new Montreal traffic get hotel rooms for a few days and the day skiers might not have increased that much.


 
Jay Peak has actually been trying to get involved in a pilot program with the US Government that would allow private companies to fund increased staffing at border crossings. My guess is that they would fund the extra staffing at the rural crossings and not Highgate since they could more easily promote the improvement to the rural crossings without helping their competitors (Stowe, Sugarbush, Smuggs).


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## dlague (Jul 24, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Last year that statement was true much of the time since Burke fell into a snow hole for almost every major storm. However, often times Burke’s overall conditions can be better than Jay’s due to less skier traffic. Especially the days between storms (or if it is windy).



We skied Burke three times last year and actually had decent snow due to lower traffic for sure.  We were able to ski much of the glades and experienced fairly good coverage!  One of the days started with a refrozen surface and Deer Run was down to pavement in spots.   However, it unexpectedly snowed the whole day and by 2 there were good powder bumps forming and Deer Run was covering up nicely!  One of those days where the conditions improved throughout the day!  I mention Deer Run because if it is not heavily traveled it is a blast at higher speed cranking around each corner - otherwise there is not much to that trail.  

One issue with Burke getting from Sherburne to Mid Burke Express kind of sucks!  Only do that like twice per day but still!  We always park at the lower lodge since we like to head to the Tamarack Grill for lunch and at the end of the day.  So we ski the lower section just to get there otherwise we ski upper Burke.


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## fbrissette (Jul 24, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Why would amenities matter if you were already renting at Jay. A new hotel would not matter at all. The Lodge at Burke is already better than the Tram side lodge at Jay. Would a restaurant or hotel really get you to drive there to ski for a day?



Wrote that late last night and did not properly reflect my thoughts.  This is what I should have written:

- If staying at Jay, I don't think Burke is worth 2 hours of driving (one hour each way) for the skiing.
- For a multi-day trip, I don't see Burke over Jay until it gets better amenities.

For a day-trip, I don't care about amenities.  I'll have lunch in my car if needed.


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## kingdom-tele (Jul 29, 2013)

NEK, I'm not sure your gonna convince anyone its worth it by including me in the reasoning for going burke.

Jay is a great intermediate mountain, it is a nice place for people to cut their teeth into woods skiing.  After a few years at J they can come to Burke and see what J used to be.  J and the N Greens get the snow. Our crew is simply glade to trade a foot snow to ski untracked boot top powder from open to close, share a beer with familiar faces on a chair that is actually comfortable.


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## dlague (Jul 29, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> NEK, I'm not sure your gonna convince anyone its worth it by including me in the reasoning for going burke.
> 
> Jay is a great intermediate mountain, it is a nice place for people to cut their teeth into woods skiing.  After a few years at J they can come to Burke and see what J used to be.  J and the N Greens get the snow. Our crew is simply glade to trade a foot snow to ski untracked boot top powder from open to close, share a beer with familiar faces on a chair that is actually comfortable.



If Jay is a great intermediate mountain then any ski area in New England is then classified that way.  For example, not sure if Face Chutes, Kitz Woods, Canyonland, Everglade, UN, etc are considered intermediate by any standard.  Each resort of any decent size has a percentage of easy, intermediate and difficult trails with the sweet spot being in the middle for all.

That being said, we ski both Jay and Burke and I do have to agree Burke has some very nice glades to skiers right with a variety of drops, steels and tight trees (Sasquatch and Dixieland) and to skiers left in The Jungle reminds me of Andres Paradise at Jay.

From my perspective, Jay has more glade skiing!  Burke's trees in some respect are a little more technical in some spots, maybe,  but I have fun at both!  Although, Kitz Woods stacks up to anything at Burke as far as challenge.

We visit both about 3-4 times per season!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 29, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> NEK, I'm not sure your gonna convince anyone its worth it by including me in the reasoning for going burke.
> 
> Jay is a great intermediate mountain, it is a nice place for people to cut their teeth into woods skiing.  After a few years at J they can come to Burke and see what J used to be.  J and the N Greens get the snow. Our crew is simply glade to trade a foot snow to ski untracked boot top powder from open to close, share a beer with familiar faces on a chair that is actually comfortable.



Jay does have more variety in terms of glades, but it is not an intermediate mountain at all.  Burke has better blues and beginner/intermediate terrain 

And the new HSQ's are pretty comfy at Burke.


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## fbrissette (Jul 29, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> Jay is a great intermediate mountain



????????????????????????????????????????????
  Jay is a shitty intermediate mountain.  You have no intermediate runs on stateside, and a choice of four no so great runs from all three bigger lifts (Vermonter, Northway, Ulr's, Goat run), and no intermediate glades outside of Stateside Glade (Bushwacker and the moons should be green circles).


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## kingdom-tele (Jul 29, 2013)

ha, I wrote glade to trade instead of glad to trade.

face chutes? seriously, 300' constitutes extreme now? Besides, unless your in the tram line with your headlamp your still skiing pile to pile, I suppose that is technical NE skiing.The best parts of J are not even in J. Unless your looking for moguls with over trimmed trees that every mooch can side slip through.

where at J other than Haynes, Jet can you GS high speed arcs without having to pull your pud while you glide back to the lift reminiscing about those 4 turns you just made before you had to dodge pylons through kokomo, at burke there is rarely anyone on the trail, never mind the lift lline. You spend your time skiing, not gliding the top and bottom halves for the 700' of east coast extreme.

but yeah, they get that arcade and I can see how the 2 hour drive from a real mountain will be worth it

I said great intermediate, not shitty


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## dlague (Jul 30, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> ha, I wrote glade to trade instead of glad to trade.
> 
> face chutes? seriously, 300' constitutes extreme now? Besides, unless your in the tram line with your headlamp your still skiing pile to pile, I suppose that is technical NE skiing.The best parts of J are not even in J. Unless your looking for moguls with over trimmed trees that every mooch can side slip through.
> 
> ...



Did not mean to push a button!  We like both and ski both every year and I find more options at Jay. With that said, you are right fewer people and often the woods at Burke are yours alone and Burke does have great glades.

We do not spend our whole day in the woods either.  We spend about 30% of our time skiing glades which is generally early part of the day.  If we have days where things are crunchy then I skip the woods until later once others chopped it up a bit. We also like to run some cruisers and lap the chair as fast as we can on a variety of trails and generally close out the day just making fun turns!

G Jay does have some crappy trails like Kokomo, Taxi, Northway and some really long run outs abut not everyone is and expert.  And... there are not to many resorts that do not have boring run outs - even Burke is plagued with that.

Ski Burke and Jay and have fun with both!


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## Smellytele (Jul 30, 2013)

I do agree that Jay does not have great intermediate skiing trails. They seem to be the trails that get you from point A to the skiing you really want to do. They blues tend to be scrapped off and full of people. I go there for the trees and the trees alone. The non tree trails to me are really not that great for the most part.


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## fbrissette (Jul 30, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> II go there for the trees and the trees alone.



Amen to that.  If you're not a tree skier, you got the awesome view from the top (after the 40 minutes Tram wait...) and a lot of stuff to do at the bottom.  And clearly that is enough for a lot of people, and this is where Jay was right with its development plan.  They are limited into what can do with the mountain to transform it into a true all-ability great ski mountain, so they chose to make it a great family all-season resort.


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## dlague (Jul 30, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> Amen to that.  If you're not a tree skier, you got the awesome view from the top (after the 40 minutes Tram wait...) and a lot of stuff to do at the bottom.  And clearly that is enough for a lot of people, and this is where Jay was right with its development plan.  They are limited into what can do with the mountain to transform it into a true all-ability great ski mountain, so they chose to make it a great family all-season resort.



Burke will be there soon!  It seems like the focus of many ski resorts is to build year round revenue streams.  My concern with Burke is - once new facilities are added and it does become a destination location where traffic on the slopes increase to the point where it gets skied off quickly.  

For example:

We skied at Burke three times the January had a refreeze and skiing was limited to snow making trails with thin spots, end of February was decent but some natural snow high traffic trails had thin cover. And in early March we were skiing as much in the woods as possible but our skis paid the price more thin cover.

Now add more people!


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## thetrailboss (Jul 30, 2013)

dlague said:


> Burke will be there soon!  It seems like the focus of many ski resorts is to build year round revenue streams.  My concern with Burke is - once new facilities are added and it does become a destination location where traffic on the slopes increase to the point where it gets skied off quickly.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...



My concern is that they will invest their EB5 money into the amenities and not upgrade or expand snowmaking...hence more people on the same snow surfaces and more problems.  Burke's beauty is that it is relatively quiet and not too heavily traveled.  The difference in snow surfaces between Burke and Sugarbush was dramatic in my years because of the traffic (in part).


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## kingdom-tele (Jul 30, 2013)

EB-5 money is only for amenities, see J and all the dramatic changes they have made to the ski hill, why would burke be any different

besides, homogenizing the ski experience requires things that have nothing to do with skiing, can't see how snowmaking would matter if I can float with 900 incontinent "friends" or maybe just work on my tailwhips and triple lindy's when the skiing sucks

it would seem a waste of money to make any enhancement to the ski hill, isn't there more money in corralling the masses away from the money sucking ski expense


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## thetrailboss (Jul 30, 2013)

Right--EB5 money, with its job creation requirements, usually is put into hotels, amenities, etc instead of ski infrastructure.


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## dlague (Aug 5, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Right--EB5 money, with its job creation requirements, usually is put into hotels, amenities, etc instead of ski infrastructure.



That's what it looks like so far!  Although, there is some trail expansion in the works, but better chairs would be nice.


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## Smellytele (Aug 5, 2013)

dlague said:


> That's what it looks like so far!  Although, there is some trail expansion in the works, but better chairs would be nice.



Better chairs where? Burke? They already have 2 good chairs with the 3rd just used for backup.


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## dlague (Aug 5, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Better chairs where? Burke? They already have 2 good chairs with the 3rd just used for backup.



I was talking about Jay Peak!   I agree with Burke with exception of the flats  between Sherburne and Mid Burke express.  Then again probably not much they can do about that.  Hence, why we avoid lower Burke to begin with as we'll as the fact that it is mostly beginner terrain on that part of the resort.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2013)

dlague said:


> I was talking about Jay Peak! I agree with Burke with exception of the flats between Sherburne and Mid Burke express. Then again probably not much they can do about that. Hence, why we avoid lower Burke to begin with as we'll as the fact that it is mostly beginner terrain on that part of the resort.




I watched them do the excavating/work in 2011. That runout may not be great, but I am impressed with wht they did.  The fact that they could make it flat if not have some pitch is amazing because if you look closely the slope goes down from Mid-Burke to the Willoughby Quad. This is a pretty significant grade. They initially were going to have the Mid-Burke Express start further down the slope and have skiers and riders ski down under the pond and over through where the snowmaking air compressor building is now. But that did not happen I imagine because of cost and having to relocate the compressor house.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2013)

dlague said:


> That's what it looks like so far! Although, there is some trail expansion in the works, but better chairs would be nice.



Yeah, unfortunately, the terrain expansion at Jay is on the typical Jay schedule...which is the multi-decade ordeal it seems. I remember skiing there in 2002 and having a ski ambassador point over to West Bowl and say to me, "next season there will be a lift there." Boy, it has been a very long year! :lol:

The first time I skied at Jay was in 1992 and they were advertising the Golf Course and homes that were "coming soon." That golf course was not built until several years later.


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## dlague (Aug 5, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Yeah, unfortunately, the terrain expansion at Jay is on the typical Jay schedule...which is the multi-decade plan it seems.  I remember skiing there in 2002 and having a ski ambassador point over to West Bowl and say to me, "next season there will be a lift there."  Boy, it has been a very long year!  :lol:



I grew up skiing there and I have heard that over and over again as well.  I was hoping that Bonnie was going to get replaced at a minimum this year.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2013)

dlague said:


> I grew up skiing there and I have heard that over and over again as well. I was hoping that Bonnie was going to get replaced at a minimum this year.



Yeah it was supposed to be last season, but then "definitely" this year, and now we are hearing next year. So that means we're looking at probably 2020 or so.  

The lift infrastructure at Jay is very old.  The Jet was mid-1980's and the Bonnie came shortly thereafter.  Hell, Flyer was what, 1999 or so?  It is now almost 15 years old.  The Metro was a reused Sugarbush Lift, circa 1995, and the Village Double is an old Hall that they reused from somewhere else.  I know that they installed the Taxi Quad last year, but I consider it to be insignificant at best because it does not really provide a lot of terrain that most folks here would use.


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## dlague (Aug 5, 2013)

I know many do not want to the Jet triple go away due to traffic concerns, but the lines get super long over there and it is a line I do not bother with except for the occasional run now and again!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2013)

dlague said:


> I know many do not want to the Jet triple go away due to traffic concerns, but the lines get super long over there and it is a line I do not bother with except for the occasional run now and again!



We've heard of different plans for the Jet...one being a new HSQ and the other being the Bonnie simply reused. If I was a betting man, and based on their track record, I'd say that they will reuse the lift if they do anything.


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## dlague (Aug 5, 2013)

Considering their approach you are probably correct!


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## halfpintvt (Aug 22, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Right--EB5 money, with its job creation requirements, usually is put into hotels, amenities, etc instead of ski infrastructure.


I'd like to know what kind of jobs the EB5 money will create for local  residents.........Right now the job count seems to be in the -10/20  range. Jay Peak doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with information and  now that Tim McGuire has left the Mountain I wonder how often the Burke  Selectboard and Planning Board will be updated on Mountain activities.  I'm starting to have nightmares about Bavarian Castles and French  Chateaus.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 22, 2013)

halfpintvt said:


> I'd like to know what kind of jobs the EB5 money will create for local  residents.........Right now the job count seems to be in the -10/20  range. Jay Peak doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with information and  now that Tim McGuire has left the Mountain I wonder how often the Burke  Selectboard and Planning Board will be updated on Mountain activities.  I'm starting to have nightmares about Bavarian Castles and French  Chateaus.



FWIW:  http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...f-Jay-Peak-project-s-foreign-money-not-public


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## from_the_NEK (Aug 23, 2013)

halfpintvt said:


> ...and  now that Tim McGuire has left the Mountain...


When did that happen?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 23, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> When did that happen?



When they let go of the other management, Tim was "transferred" to JPR.


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## from_the_NEK (Aug 23, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> When they let go of the other management, Tim was "transferred" to JPR.


Okay, I did know that. Halfpintvt made it sound like he quit or something.


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## halfpintvt (Aug 23, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Okay, I did know that. Halfpintvt made it sound like he quit or something.



Tim has left JPR. He has his own company called McGuire Design &  Consulting, LLC. He will be working with Summit Engineering on the East  Burke sidewalk project.


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## Masskier (Aug 24, 2013)

halfpintvt said:


> Tim has left JPR. He has his own company called McGuire Design &  Consulting, LLC. He will be working with Summit Engineering on the East  Burke sidewalk project.



I received an email from Tim today announcing his departure.  He is working with  VHB, a top; Planning, Transportation, Land Development, and  Environmental Consulting firm based out of their Burlington VT office.


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## halfpintvt (Aug 24, 2013)

VHB Has already worked on a project at Burke Mountain (description from their web page) had to cut and paste because i couldn't get it to link.

Burke Mountain Resort Study for Wastewater Disposal System Expansion
Burke, VTStantec  selected VHB to conduct a comprehensive hydrogeologic study to assess  existing conditions and the potential for wastewater disposal expansion  at Burke Mountain Resort as part of the resort’s Master Plan  development. We are permitting these sites under Vermont’s Indirect  Discharge program, which requires analysis of the impact of land-based  wastewater disposal to the surface waters that ultimately receive the  underground flow of the effluent.
      VHB performed site characterization tasks, from initial screening  and selection of candidate sites, through hydrogeologic testing and  mapping of the selected sites, to water quality evaluation and  assistance with engineering design. We advised our client regarding the  acquisition of additional properties to purchase for wastewater disposal  sites and regarding the design and performance goals for a new  wastewater treatment plant. Our studies identified over 250,000 gallons  per day of wastewater disposal capacity from in-ground leachfields and  spray disposal areas, including expanding the capacity of the resort’s  currently approved leachfields and identifying new sites.


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## from_the_NEK (Aug 27, 2013)

Today's article in the Caledonian about Tim's new career path... http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=180&SubSectionID=778&ArticleID=98842
Tim was always an engineer before ending up in a management roll due to the Ginn situation. He is getting back into his primary line of works and it looks like he is going to remain living in Burke and work closely with Q Burke on their new development.
(Is it too early to count this as one job created by EB5 money?  )


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## from_the_NEK (Aug 30, 2013)

Congrats on the promotion Steve:   http://new.pitchengine.com/pitches/1e49daf8-c7ca-4ac7-bf18-f3b2b91e3076



> Q Resorts today announced the appointment of Steve Wright as its Chief Marketing Officer. In his new role, Wright will be responsible for overseeing all sales, marketing and hospitality initiatives at both Jay Peak and Burke Mountain resorts.


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## fbrissette (Aug 30, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Congrats on the promotion Steve:   http://new.pitchengine.com/pitches/1e49daf8-c7ca-4ac7-bf18-f3b2b91e3076



Not surprising as it makes a lot of sense.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 30, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Congrats on the promotion Steve: http://new.pitchengine.com/pitches/1e49daf8-c7ca-4ac7-bf18-f3b2b91e3076




:beer: 

Good job! I knew he would eventually make it from Killington to Burke 

Now can you work on the name of the joint pass?  A lot of folks don't get the whole "Judge" thing and it's a bit weird to be honest.


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## Smellytele (Aug 30, 2013)

hopefully they do the ski club days like they did last year (and for many years at Burke)


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## dlague (Aug 30, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Good job! I knew he would eventually make it from Killington to Burke



Note:  Did you notice it said Q Resorts?  Hence - a much broader scope then just Q Burke!

Q Resorts, Inc. filed as a Foreign for Profit Corporation in the State of Florida on Monday, March 03, 2008 and is approximately five years old, as recorded in documents filed with Florida Department of State. The filing is currently active as of the last data refresh which occured on Tuesday, May 21, 2013. It is important to note that this is a foreign filing. A foreign filing is when an existing corporate entity files in a state other than the one they originally filed in. This does not necessarily mean that they are from outside the United States.

Key People

Ariel Quiros serves as the President and has interests in other corporate entities including Quiros Family Farm, Inc., Technology Tree USA Inc. and seven more corporations. Ariel's past corporate affiliations include Q Vision Incorporated, Quiros International, Inc. and nine others.

Ariel I. Quiros is also the registered agent for the company. Also known as a statutory or resident agent, the registered agent is responsible for receiving legal notifications regarding court summons, lawsuits, and other legal actions involving the corporate entity.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 30, 2013)

Q Resorts owns both resorts.


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## dlague (Aug 30, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Q Resorts owns both resorts.



Yes but I think it is interesting what is behind it all


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## steamboat1 (Aug 31, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Q Resorts owns both resorts.


Wasn't Q a character from Star Trek?

Wasn't a very nice fellow as I recall.

What an odd name for a ski corporation.


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## Smellytele (Aug 31, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Wasn't Q a character from Star Trek?
> 
> Wasn't a very nice fellow as I recall.
> 
> What an odd name for a ski corporation.



Yes Q (as in Quantum physics) was a time traveler.

Okay I'm a geek...


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## thetrailboss (Aug 31, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Yes Q (as in Quantum physics) was a time traveler.
> 
> Okay I'm a geek...



Q=Queros

or Bill's partner


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## snowmonster (Sep 2, 2013)

Congratulations to Steve on the promotion! As much as I love the Loaf, consider this a humble suggestion to Steve to consider hosting an AZ Summit at Jay Peak or Burke. We're pretty well behaved, right folks?


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## Steve@jpr (Sep 4, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> :beer:
> 
> Good job! I knew he would eventually make it from Killington to Burke
> 
> Now can you work on the name of the joint pass?  A lot of folks don't get the whole "Judge" thing and it's a bit weird to be honest.



Thanks.  Yes, quite the route to get there.  We (Jay team et al) actually worked on The Judge story and site.  Yes, I agree, strange.  Subjectively so, but strange nonetheless.  Godspeed.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 4, 2013)

Steve@jpr said:


> Thanks.  Yes, quite the route to get there.  We (Jay team et al) actually worked on The Judge story and site.  Yes, I agree, strange.  Subjectively so, but strange nonetheless.  Godspeed.



We'll be looking for more good stuff from you at JPR/Burke.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 4, 2013)

dlague said:


> Note:  Did you notice it said Q Resorts?  Hence - a much broader scope then just Q Burke!


On a related "Q" note. It seems the name "Q Burke" is being used more than I figured it would be. There are bike park signs around the base lodge (e.g. "Norco Bicycles, The Official Bike of Q Burke Mountain Resort") and the Burke's profile picture on Facebook says "Q Burke". I'm wondering if this is going to be a trend?


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## dlague (Sep 4, 2013)

According to everything that I have read - I think that is the new name!  It is used in press releases as well.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 4, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> On a related "Q" note. It seems the name "Q Burke" is being used more than I figured it would be. There are bike park signs around the base lodge (e.g. "Norco Bicycles, The Official Bike of Q Burke Mountain Resort") and the Burke's profile picture on Facebook says "Q Burke". I'm wondering if this is going to be a trend?




Ugh I hope not


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## the original trailboss (Sep 4, 2013)

I gave True North two years (gone?) and then along came the Judge. Now Ski Burke is QBurke...........


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## Sick Bird Rider (Sep 4, 2013)

the original trailboss said:


> I gave True North two years (gone?) and then along came the Judge. Now Ski Burke is QBurke...........



Hmmm. QBurke. If you say it fast enough, it sounds like Quebec, which is not far away. Not to mention the fact that Norco Bicycles is a Canadian brand. I think there is some kind of cross-border conspiracy going on here.


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## Smellytele (Sep 4, 2013)

Sick Bird Rider said:


> Hmmm. QBurke. If you say it fast enough, it sounds like Quebec, which is not far away. Not to mention the fact that Norco Bicycles is a Canadian brand. I think there is some kind of cross-border conspiracy going on here.



As we have mentioned before in some thread it is...


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## Steve@jpr (Sep 5, 2013)

the original trailboss said:


> I gave True North two years (gone?) and then along came the Judge. Now Ski Burke is QBurke...........



A true seer.  True North was a marketing campaign.  The Judge is the name of a season pass.  QBurke is the name of the holding company.  All set?


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## buellski (Sep 5, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> As we have mentioned before in some thread it is...


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## thetrailboss (Sep 5, 2013)

Steve@jpr said:


> A true seer. True North was a marketing campaign. The Judge is the name of a season pass. QBurke is the name of the holding company. All set?




I think one issue, Steve, is that Burke has a history of many identities and it only acts to confuse folks. I think it should be Burke Mountain with Burkie Bear. Keep it simple. Over my lifetime it has been Burke Mountain, Bear Kingdom Limited, Northern Star, etc. You're the pro on marketing and branding...but I think that simple is better with Burke. And we appreciate that you check in here every once in a while!  Though I'm in SLC and ski at Alta/Snowbird, my home is Burke because that's where I learned and we've got a lot of passionate Burke fans here.


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## dlague (Sep 5, 2013)

Steve@jpr said:


> A true seer.  True North was a marketing campaign.  The Judge is the name of a season pass.  QBurke is the name of the holding company.  All set?



I think the confusion lies in the fact that everything is refering to Q Burke rather than just saying Burke as mentioned earlier and in this example:



> Q Burke Mountain Resort, located in the northeastern part of Vermont, is known to offer a wide variety of incredible mountain bike terrain to suit riders of all types and abilities.



Why use the holding company's name when refering to Burke Mountain Resort.  If I am not mistaken isn't Q Burke Mountain Resort is based out of Miami?


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## kingdom-tele (Sep 6, 2013)

Steve@jpr said:


> A true seer.  True North was a marketing campaign.  The Judge is the name of a season pass.  QBurke is the name of the holding company.  All set?



Not quite.  Why not QJay then?


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## bigbog (Sep 6, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Congrats on the promotion Steve: (_responsible for overseeing all sales, marketing and hospitality initiatives at both Jay Peak and Burke Mountain resorts.)......._


+1


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## Steve@jpr (Sep 6, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> Not quite.  Why not QJay then?



Because Bill Stenger is not financially involved with Burke.  There is some confusion out there, created by us, as a result of using the holding company name in areas where the operating configuration, Burke, should be.  That's on me.


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## kingdom-tele (Sep 6, 2013)

Thanks steve.

Any chance you guys will run discount ticket days for people that can name 20 words that start Q?


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## Steve@jpr (Sep 6, 2013)

kingdom-tele said:


> Thanks steve.
> 
> Any chance you guys will run discount ticket days for people that can name 20 words that start Q?



Sounds like a Facebook meme.  I'm in.


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