# Newly tuned skis are killing me!



## rtibbs4 (Mar 6, 2011)

Any feedback appreciated.

I had my skis tuned recently. I won't say where. It's the first time since buying them. I have had them 4 years and have only been averaging 10-12 days a year. I have had skis sharpened a number of times in the past and the only result was better edge grip on hard pack. These newly tuned skis are a nightmare. I'm catching edges everywhere! Really busted my ass the other day. 

Is is possible to screw up a ski tuning?


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## bobbutts (Mar 6, 2011)

You may need to dull the tips and tails..


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## gmcunni (Mar 6, 2011)

rtibbs4 said:


> Is is possible to screw up a ski tuning?



i think YES. i had a very bad tune experience but the opposite problem as you. i think they went with too severe of a bevel and i could not get the edges to grab at all.


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## RootDKJ (Mar 6, 2011)

It happened to me once also.  I went back to the shop where I got a refund, no problem.


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## andyzee (Mar 6, 2011)

bobbutts said:


> You may need to dull the tips and tails..



Agreed.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Try a stone and dull the tip and tails. Dull them about 6 inches in front of binding to tip. And 3 inches behind binding to tail. If you need to dull more then use a mill bastard file.


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## maineskier69 (Mar 6, 2011)

I keep a small diamond stone on me for de-burring and de-tuning tips and tails when this happens.  Mention it to the shop ASAP and I am sure other members would like to know where it was done, but thats a tough call as you dont want to hurt a (usually?) good shop's reputation unless they don't make good on the problem.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 6, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Try a stone and dull the tip and tails. Dull them about 6 inches in front of binding to tip. And 3 inches behind binding to tail. If you need to dull more then use a mill bastard file.



THIS  !!! especially if they are 'hooking up"


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## rtibbs4 (Mar 6, 2011)

> I keep a small diamond stone on me for de-burring and de-tuning tips and tails when this happens.


 This is what I feel needs to be done but I don't want to screw them up even more. The skis feel like they have grown claws. I hate taking stuff back to a store but it's probably the best move. 

Great input fellas.

Thanks.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2011)

bobbutts said:


> You may need to dull the tips and tails..


 
+ 1.  You are hooking because they forgot to detune the tips and tails.  Take a file and "dull" them or if you have a gummi stone that will do the trick.


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## rtibbs4 (Mar 6, 2011)

> + 1. You are hooking because they forgot to detune the tips and tails. Take a file and "dull" them or if you have a gummi stone that will do the trick



Thanks.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 6, 2011)

rtibbs4 said:


> Thanks.


 
...or you can take them back to the shop and ask them to detune the tips and tails.  I imagine if you are assertive they will refund the tune.  That is a mistake that happens when the tuner is rushing and not paying attention.  It is something easily fixed but dangerous as you can see.


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## RISkier (Mar 6, 2011)

You can get really bad tunes. I had skis tuned at a nameless shop last year, they were virtually unskiable even on flat green groomed terrain. Went into the resort shop, they young tech checked out the edges and they were completely rounded off. He wasn't sure they could even be saved. A friend recommended going to SkiMD (Mike de Santis in Framingham, MA). The friend is a ski instructor who said Mike could either fix them or tell me they were not repairable. He got them skiing great. Might just be that you need the tips and tails de-tuned a bit. Or... There's a place in Stowe we've gotten really good tunes. But Not all tunes are equal and at this point I'm pretty cautious about who I let touch my skis.


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## roark (Mar 6, 2011)

also may have given you a lower base bevel, besides not detuning (which I actually don't mind


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## mister moose (Mar 6, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Try a stone and dull the tip and tails. Dull them about 6 inches in front of binding to tip. And 3 inches behind binding to tail. If you need to dull more then use a mill bastard file.



WHAT? 

This is way too aggressive and approach.  I would never use a file to dull edges with.  A light touch with a mild stone is all you need.  I would start detuning 6 inches from the tip and tail of the ski outward, and try a few runs.  If the skis are still grabby, run the stone over gradually longer sections still using  alight touch until the skis perform the way you like.  It is easy to dull an edge, hard to get it back.  Using a file can dull the edge to the point that another tune cannot restore the edge.  If you are not experienced at tuning skis, go easy.


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

4 years without a tune and your hooking edges. Sounds like you just need to get used to it. They might have done a base grind.
 Why anyone would detune their edges is beyond me.


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## skidmarks (Mar 6, 2011)

If you had them stone ground make sure the base pattern isn't too aggressive and make sure the pattern doesn't continue into the base edge.This can make the skis very grabby.

You should not need to dull the skis if the edges were finished with diamond stones by hand or a ceramic edger. If they just used a wet belt all bets are off.


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## maineskier69 (Mar 6, 2011)

A good tuner will de-tune tips and tails as SOP.  How far up and down depends on the ski and does not require a grinder to do so.  A light run with a fine file or diamond stone is all it takes to make the difference.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

mister moose said:


> WHAT?
> 
> This is way too aggressive and approach.  I would never use a file to dull edges with.  A light touch with a mild stone is all you need.  I would start detuning 6 inches from the tip and tail of the ski outward, and try a few runs.  If the skis are still grabby, run the stone over gradually longer sections still using  alight touch until the skis perform the way you like.  It is easy to dull an edge, hard to get it back.  Using a file can dull the edge to the point that another tune cannot restore the edge.  If you are not experienced at tuning skis, go easy.



You knock them down a little. The edges can be recovered too. Do you tune your own?


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

maineskier69 said:


> A good tuner will de-tune tips and tails as SOP.  How far up and down depends on the ski and does not require a grinder to do so.  A light run with a fine file or diamond stone is all it takes to make the difference.



Obviously you know what you are doing.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Morwax said:


> 4 years without a tune and your hooking edges. Sounds like you just need to get used to it. They might have done a base grind.
> Why anyone would detune their edges is beyond me.



Gs or slalom ski does not want this if it used for racing.  Free ride ski wants the de-tuning. De-tuning is a personal preference.  I like my free ride skis de- tune quite far but my carvers are sharp like a knife.


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## Grassi21 (Mar 6, 2011)

mister moose said:


> WHAT?
> 
> This is way too aggressive and approach.  I would never use a file to dull edges with.  A light touch with a mild stone is all you need.  I would start detuning 6 inches from the tip and tail of the ski outward, and try a few runs.  If the skis are still grabby, run the stone over gradually longer sections still using  alight touch until the skis perform the way you like.  It is easy to dull an edge, hard to get it back.  Using a file can dull the edge to the point that another tune cannot restore the edge.  If you are not experienced at tuning skis, go easy.





Puck it said:


> You knock them down a little. The edges can be recovered too. Do you tune your own?



I detuned by bump skis 6/3" tip/tail.  I did it with a shop file in basement while half in the bag.  What's the big deal?  First we had the grammar police, now its the tuning police....Geez


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

I dont detune at all and never trip on my edges.


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## Scruffy (Mar 6, 2011)

Morwax said:


> 4 years without a tune and your hooking edges. Sounds like you just need to get used to it. They might have done a base grind.
> Why anyone would detune their edges is beyond me.



+1

The general rule is shaped skis do not need detuning like the old stright skis. Of course if you're skiing them like old stright skis, then maybe. Four years without a tune  :???:
I tune my skis every 2-3 days on them; but I tune my own skis so I know what they, and I, need. Having said that, I've heard of top level skiers having theirs skis made unskiable by a bad tune; so you never know. I would take them back and talk to the owner/shop manager, demand to have their best person look at your skis and redo if necessary.

You also might need to look at your skiing. Four years without a tune says a lot. Learning to carve might be in order. Learn to tune your own skis, or at least maintain a tune. Your skiing and enjoyment of the sport will greatly improve.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Grassi21 said:


> I detuned by bump skis 6/3" tip/tail.  I did it with a shop file in basement while half in the bag.  What's the big deal?  First we had the grammar police, now its the tuning police....Geez



I know. WTF. Tuning is such a personal preference.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Morwax said:


> I dont detune at all and never trip on my edges.



You win the doll.  Applause. The guy does not like the tune and he asked for reasons.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> +1
> 
> The general rule is shaped skis do not need detuning like the old stright skis. Of course if you're skiing them like old stright skis, then maybe. Four years without a tune  :???:
> I tune my skis every 2-3 days on them; but I tune my own skis so I know what they, and I, need. Having said that, I've heard of top level skiers having theirs skis made unskiable by a bad tune; so you never know. I would take them back and talk to the owner/shop manager, demand to have their best person look at your skis and redo if necessary.
> ...




Wow, the poor guy asked what might be wrong not what was wrong with his skiing. BTW, I have skis that never get tuned.  So your idea of four years is full of it.


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Wow, the poor guy asked what might be wrong not what was wrong with his skiing. BTW, I have skis that never get tuned.  So your idea of four years is full of it.


 Congradulations on getting all worked up:beer:


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

So racers who dont detune are catching edges? Its most likely technique if hes been skiing on spoons for four years.


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## Scruffy (Mar 6, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Wow, the poor guy asked what might be wrong not what was wrong with his skiing. BTW, I have skis that never get tuned.  So your idea of four years is full of it.




Whatever :roll:  If your got skis you never tune, and ski in the east, either they are your rock skis, you don't ski them, or you skid everything. Hey, as long as you are having fun.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 6, 2011)

Seriously? We're having a bitch fest over tuning now?


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## Scruffy (Mar 6, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Seriously? We're having a bitch fest over tuning now?



Can you think of a better subject to have a bitch fest over


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> Whatever :roll:  If your got skis you never tune, and ski in the east, either they are your rock skis, you don't ski them, or you skid everything. Hey, as long as you are having fun.


You are right they are specific skis.  I skid my turns when I want to and need to.


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Seriously? We're having a bitch fest over tuning now?



Did not ski this weekend and in pissy mood.  People talking about something that is personal preference and slamming some body for their technique is stupid.


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

Its the weather , everyones "On edge":beer:


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

Morwax said:


> So racers who dont detune are catching edges? Its most likely technique if hes been skiing on spoons for four years.



It probably is but he is not f- ing Bode skiing an injected downhill course.  He is out skiing and enjoying it.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 6, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Did not ski this weekend and in pissy mood.  People talking about something that is personal preference and slamming some body for their technique is stupid.



I skied today, though briefly. My edges felt good ...


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Did not ski this weekend and in pissy mood.  People talking about something that is personal preference and slamming some body for their technique is stupid.


 I dont think anyone "slammed" anyone. But if you dont tune for four years and get used to it then have them tuned.. they are gonna feel grabby. Not a dig as much as fact:beer:


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## deadheadskier (Mar 6, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> Can you think of a better subject to have a bitch fest over



gear transport bags

or 

the gender of childcare professionals at ski resorts

thrilling stuff


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## Bandit2941 (Mar 6, 2011)

People still de-tune skis nowadays? That's still SOP in ski shops? I really wasn't aware of that. I thought de-tuning went out with straight skis...? I tune my skis every couple of ski days and sharpen them tip to tail. Do it for my carving skis and twintip freeride/powder skis. Love it when I roll the ankle and the tips hook right up.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter how your skis are tuned, just have fun!!


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> gear transport bags
> 
> or
> 
> ...



How about the new Depends diapers for women that do not show.  Thrilling conversation.


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## o3jeff (Mar 6, 2011)

skidmarks said:


> If you had them stone ground make sure the base pattern isn't too aggressive and make sure the pattern doesn't continue into the base edge.This can make the skis very grabby.



I had this happen to a pair of skis last year, made it almost impossible to skid my turns.


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## Scruffy (Mar 6, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> gear transport bags
> 
> or
> 
> ...



Hey, it's a skiing forum, and the rain just crapped on our season, so it goes.


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## Morwax (Mar 6, 2011)

Bandit2941 said:


> People still de-tune skis nowadays? That's still SOP in ski shops? I really wasn't aware of that. I thought de-tuning went out with straight skis...? I tune my skis every couple of ski days and sharpen them tip to tail. Do it for my carving skis and twintip freeride/powder skis. Love it when I roll the ankle and the tips hook right up.
> 
> Bottom line, it doesn't matter how your skis are tuned, just have fun!!



+1 Amen to that... sharper the better


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## Puck it (Mar 6, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> I had this happen to a pair of skis last year, made it almost impossible to skid my turns.



You gaper


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## RootDKJ (Mar 6, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Seriously? We're having a bitch fest over tuning now?





Scruffy said:


> Can you think of a better subject to have a bitch fest over



Helmets.  Always a classic.


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## dropKickMurphy (Mar 7, 2011)

Use a straight edge to make sure the base is level from edge to edge. I got a tune from (an unnamed) local shop a couple of years ago. Something just didn't quite feel right after that. Brought them into a shop on the mountain. The tech eyeballed it, took a straight edge and found the base was concave.


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## catskillman (Mar 7, 2011)

I'd be willing to bet $$$$ that you had them stoneground.  It seems to be a probem 90% of the time myself and others had a problem  I will never do it again.

4 years!!!  I tune mine after a weekend of skiing, especially if it is icy.


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## Puck it (Mar 7, 2011)

catskillman said:


> I tune mine after a weekend of skiing, especially if it is icy.


 

You just need an excuse to drink. I don't.


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## mondeo (Mar 7, 2011)

I never tune my skis. I'm so good, it seems unfair to keep them in top condition.


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## Puck it (Mar 7, 2011)

mondeo said:


> I never tune my skis. I'm so good, it seems unfair to keep them in top condition.


 
Found your onesy too!


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## RSTuthill (Mar 7, 2011)

This thread seems to have gotten a bit off topic. But let me offer this.

The ski behavior that you descrive can be linked to base bevel not properly set after a grind. If they left it at zero bevel after the grind it can be corrected by setting it to half a degree. Also if they improperly set the side bevel to a substantially smaller angle than 87 degrees, lets say, they can get grabby. But if you check them and they are close to 0.5 and 87, then and only then, would I detune the tips and tails.


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## catskillman (Mar 7, 2011)

Puck it said:


> You just need an excuse to drink. I don't.



Huh???????  

Drinking and tuning -  could be dangerous.  It's probally legal though


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## Puck it (Mar 7, 2011)

catskillman said:


> Huh???????
> 
> Drinking and tuning - could be dangerous. It's probally legal though


 

Not for a qualfied tuner like me.


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## mondeo (Mar 7, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Found your onesy too!


Why would anyone ever buy a onesie? Jeans and Carhartt are good enough.

Also, I just tie all my gear together with a rope. Duffel bags are for posers.


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 7, 2011)

We call those fag bags.No offense meant.Detuning a ski 6 inches each side of your binding?Why bother having them tuned?Just file that 2 foot area yourself.

What the OP is descibing is what I always refered to as the ski being railed and is usually caused by the base being ground lower than the edges.I've had them before and it is not a good feeling.You can check to see if this is the case very easily by putting a true bar or something you know it absolutely flat across the base.You'll see if your ski is base high or concave.Even detunung had limited results for me.I ran a file agressively and all was well.


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## Puck it (Mar 7, 2011)

A bunch of arm chair tuners around here!!!


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## billski (Mar 7, 2011)

I only tune my helmet.  Tuning skis is for wusses.


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## buellski (Mar 7, 2011)

billski said:


> I only tune my helmet.  Tuning skis is for wusses.



Listening to music while you ski? That's dangerous!


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## Puck it (Mar 7, 2011)

billski said:


> I only tune my helmet. Tuning skis is for wusses.


 

Just had to say it!!!!!!


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## billski (Mar 7, 2011)

buellski said:


> Listening to music while you ski? That's dangerous!




I only listen to music when I'm on the lift trying to avoid chit-chat.  :blink:


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## tjf67 (Mar 7, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Why would anyone ever buy a onesie? Jeans and Carhartt are good enough.
> 
> Also, I just tie all my gear together with a rope. Duffel bags are for posers.



Fat people r posers as well


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## rtibbs4 (Mar 8, 2011)

To follow up. Emailed the ski shop and they said bring them back and they would take care of it.


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## billski (Mar 8, 2011)

mondeo said:


> Why would anyone ever buy a onesie? .



Women with the right shape look dynamite in a one-piece.


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## SIKSKIER (Mar 8, 2011)

billski said:


> Women with the right shape look dynamite in a one-piece.



Key word being woman.


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## billski (Mar 8, 2011)

SIKSKIER said:


> Key word being woman.



Indeed.  Men in one-pieces should be arrested. :razz:


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## wa-loaf (Mar 8, 2011)

billski said:


> Indeed.  Men in one-pieces should be arrested. :razz:



Don't come to Wachusett on a weeknight ...


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## Highway Star (Mar 9, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Try a stone and dull the tip and tails. Dull them about 6 inches in front of binding to tip. And 3 inches behind binding to tail. If you need to dull more then use a mill bastard file.


 
This is wrong. You need to take a belt sander to the edges at a 45 degree angle, along the entire length. If you don't have a belt sander, a rotorary grinder will do.




















Seriously though, 90% of the people on here know squat about tuning.


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## Puck it (Mar 9, 2011)

Highway Star said:


> This is wrong. You need to take a belt sander to the edges at a 45 degree angle, along the entire length. If you don't have a belt sander, a rotorary grinder will do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why do people seem it necessary to tell people that they do not know what they are doing. Tuning skis is personal preferences. I like my everyday ski like I stated and carvers razor sharp 1 degrees base 3 degree side


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## Scruffy (Mar 9, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Why do people seem it necessary to tell people that they do not know what they are doing. *Tuning skis is personal preferences*. I like my everyday ski like I stated and carvers razor sharp 1 degrees base 3 degree side



There is not that many personal choices:

Base bevel .5 - 1 degree, any more and your Pucked, side bevel 1-3 degrees off 90,  Sharp tip to tail, bases flat.

The only choice is whether to tune or say Puck it, I'm too lazy. 

"Why do people seem it necessary to tell people that they do not know what they are doing?" 
It's the way of humans. In a forum such as this people want to share information, if your doing it wrong someone will let you know, you may learn something, someone else reading may learn something. This is code for telling someone they're doing it wrong makes us feel superior.  Seriously, what would be the purpose of a ski forum if not to pontificate on the correct ski, boot, tune, etc..


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## Puck it (Mar 9, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> There is not that many personal choices:
> 
> Base bevel .5 - 1 degree, any more and your Pucked, side bevel 1-3 degrees off 90,  Sharp tip to tail, bases flat.
> 
> ...



Okay, this place is now full of self pontificating asses.  Oh, it always was. I forgot.


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## mondeo (Mar 9, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> Base bevel .5 - 1 degree, any more and your Pucked, side bevel 1-3 degrees off 90, Sharp tip to tail, bases flat.


I use a base bevel of 1.5 degree, side of 0.5. Detuned for half a foot from the contact points. The standard is 2 degree base, 0 degree side.


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## Puck it (Mar 9, 2011)

mondeo said:


> I use a base bevel of 1.5 degree, side of 0.5. Detuned for half a foot from the contact points. The standard is 2 degree base, 0 degree side.



You obviously do not know what you are doing. You suck. Got do five hail marys for your blasphemy.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2011)

mondeo said:


> The standard is 2 degree base, 0 degree side.



standard for what?


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## RISkier (Mar 10, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> standard for what?



Don't think there are any hard and fast standards. Racers would generally use less base bevel and more side bevel than everyday drivers. And folks might use more base bevel and less side bevel if they're generally skiing in softer snow. Less base bevel makes skis hold better but also makes them grabbier and more prone to catching edges. 1 degree base and 2-3 degrees side bevel would be pretty typical for everyday skis. But I don't think there are any hard and fast standards.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 10, 2011)

http://tognar.com/bevel_edge_tips_file_bevel_ski_snowboard.html#angle


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## SkiDork (Mar 10, 2011)

the mogul skiers still detune, because their skis are much straighter than most others.

I guess this is a moot point with tip and tail rise


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## campgottagopee (Mar 10, 2011)

I dare say that most of us couldn't tell the diff between .5 to 1.5 degrees of anything....just sayin'


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## tjf67 (Mar 10, 2011)

campgottagopee said:


> I dare say that most of us couldn't tell the diff between .5 to 1.5 degrees of anything....just sayin'




0 gnar point for you Mister.


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## campgottagopee (Mar 10, 2011)

tjf67 said:


> 0 gnar point for you Mister.



Rednecks aren't gnar any-a-ways


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2011)

campgottagopee said:


> I dare say that most of us couldn't tell the diff between .5 to 1.5 degrees of anything....just sayin'



dare I say many here couldn't tell(or maybe give a cr@p about) the differnce between a freshly tuned pair of skis and a pair with 20+ days on it


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## mondeo (Mar 10, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> standard for what?


Mogul skis. At least it used to be, need to see if that's changed with the higher sidecut skis and greater emphasis on carving nowadays.


SkiDork said:


> the mogul skiers still detune, because their skis are much straighter than most others.


Also, the tips and tails are likely to be on different slopes. Don't want the tip catching and trying to turn left while the tail is still hooked into a right turn.

I'd also like to point out that unless it's hardpack/ice, sharp edges don't mean a thing.


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## SkiFanE (Mar 10, 2011)

wa-loaf said:


> Don't come to Wachusett on a weeknight ...



I did beer league for a couple years recently at WaWa.  OMG...what a sight.  As funny as they may look...those guys are fast.  Nothing like seeing them peel it off upstairs after the race and witnessing that beer belly sprung free from it's spandex.


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## billski (Mar 10, 2011)

drjeff said:


> dare I say many here couldn't tell(or maybe give a cr@p about) the differnce between a freshly tuned pair of skis and a pair with 20+ days on it



You've described me!  I have enough trouble staying upright on skis!


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## gmcunni (Mar 11, 2011)

drjeff said:


> dare I say many here couldn't tell(or maybe give a cr@p about) the differnce between a freshly tuned pair of skis and a pair with 20+ days on it



i kind of care. i'm one of those people who self-criticizes as i ski. i;m currently very hard on myself with regard to skidding my turns.   i know it is likely more my technique but i find it easier to justify that my skis aren't as sharp as they should be which is why i can't hold an edge on hard pack.

when i was in CO and skiing packed pow i thought i had my skis dialed in great. two days later i was skiing back in the east and amazed at how my edged had dulled in such a short period.


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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> i kind of care. i'm one of those people who self-criticizes as i ski. i;m currently very hard on myself with regard to skidding my turns.   i know it is likely more my technique but i find it easier to justify that my skis aren't as sharp as they should be which is why i can't hold an edge on hard pack.
> 
> when i was in CO and skiing packed pow i thought i had my skis dialed in great. two days later i was skiing back in the east and amazed at how my edged had dulled in such a short period.



So much of what I find is the key to success for hard snow turn success, vs the ease of soft snow turns has to do with what happens 1st, the rolling onto the edge before weighting the ski vs. weighting the ski before rolling onto the edge (this is something that most folks when carving do *almost* simultaneously)

If you make a few "practice" turns on easier terrain, harder snow where you purposely roll onto the inside edge of your downhill ski 1st (I mean over do it, roll the knee in, SET that edge while having 50/50 weighting of both skis) and then add the pressure to the downhill ski, you'll see how that edge hooks up (almost reguardless of it's sharpness on all but the most bullet proof of surfaces) and then makes a clean turn.  Whereas if you start the weighting first and then try and roll onto that edge, sometimes you'll pull off a clean carve, sometimes its skid city(especially on harder surfaces).  On softer snow, you can get away with weighting 1st and still pull off a clean turn most of the time.  On harder snow, having that edge in proper position to bite into the snow before you weight it makes a big difference.  

When it's happening at speed, you're talking about something that happens (the early angulation of the knee to roll onto the edge) in under a second when you've got the technique dialed in.  If you get the chance to watch a worldcup race on TV, and they goto to a slow-mo replay of the racers making their turns(the good turns, not the oh sh$t I'm about to crash turns :lol: ), watch the angle of the ski gets set before you see any snow spray (not that they leave alot of it) come off the ski.  It's edge set, then pressure


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## hammer (Mar 11, 2011)

drjeff said:


> the oh sh$t I'm about to crash turns :lol:


I know those kind of turns all too well...had my share of those running gates. 

Regarding tunes, the main difference I could tell was that, after cooking a coat of the right kind of wax on my bases, that they weren't as grabby.  I'd have to admit though that for me it's more about the technique than the tune.


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## gmcunni (Mar 11, 2011)

drjeff said:


> So much of what I find is the key to success for hard snow turn success, vs the ease of soft snow turns has to do with what happens 1st, the rolling onto the edge before weighting the ski vs. weighting the ski before rolling onto the edge (this is something that most folks when carving do *almost* simultaneously)
> 
> If you make a few "practice" turns on easier terrain, harder snow where you purposely roll onto the inside edge of your downhill ski 1st (I mean over do it, roll the knee in, SET that edge while having 50/50 weighting of both skis) and then add the pressure to the downhill ski, you'll see how that edge hooks up (almost reguardless of it's sharpness on all but the most bullet proof of surfaces) and then makes a clean turn.  Whereas if you start the weighting first and then try and roll onto that edge, sometimes you'll pull off a clean carve, sometimes its skid city(especially on harder surfaces).  On softer snow, you can get away with weighting 1st and still pull off a clean turn most of the time.  On harder snow, having that edge in proper position to bite into the snow before you weight it makes a big difference.
> 
> When it's happening at speed, you're talking about something that happens (the early angulation of the knee to roll onto the edge) in under a second when you've got the technique dialed in.  If you get the chance to watch a worldcup race on TV, and they goto to a slow-mo replay of the racers making their turns(the good turns, not the oh sh$t I'm about to crash turns :lol: ), watch the angle of the ski gets set before you see any snow spray (not that they leave alot of it) come off the ski.  It's edge set, then pressure



i'm just going to move out west where the snow is always soft 

what you say sounds logical but being an old dog, i learn new tricks slowly.  i'll try to apply this next time out and see what happens.


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## Puck it (Mar 11, 2011)

Who the f'ing cares whether you tune, detune, carve, skid. Are you f'ing having fun?  Just ski.

To many armchair quarterbacks around, you can't do this, can't do that.  You don't know what you are doing.  Give advice and don't criticize.


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## Morwax (Mar 11, 2011)

Sharpened and waxed three pairs of skis and a snowboard yesterday. Alot of work but I feel prepared for great NE skiing yet to come:beer:


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## gmcunni (Mar 11, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Who the f'ing cares whether you tune, detune, carve, skid. Are you f'ing having fun?  Just ski.



i care. part of the enjoyment i get out of skiing is to push myself and improve.


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## Puck it (Mar 11, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> i care. part of the enjoyment i get out of skiing is to push myself and improve.



That is great. I do too. But I try not to tell people that you don't know what you are, do not listen to him.


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## Morwax (Mar 11, 2011)

Puck it said:


> Who the f'ing cares whether you tune, detune, carve, skid. Are you f'ing having fun?  Just ski.
> 
> To many armchair quarterbacks around, you can't do this, can't do that.  You don't know what you are doing.  Give advice and don't criticize.



 Yes you seem like your really light hearted and always having fun...lol


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## Puck it (Mar 11, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Yes you seem like your really light hearted and always having fun...lol


 

I am.  Loving screwing with people. But I do not go around telling people that they do not their arse from a hole in the ground like some do.  Unless it is dmc, just screwing with you man.

Way to many pontificating arses, spewing drabble, that is what PO's me.  Just do not slam when someone is trying to help.  It happens a lot around here.  Just how I read a lot of these posts.


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## Morwax (Mar 11, 2011)

Im sick of the bickering..spent some time in TGR and its like everyone has lost any sense of decency for the sake of trying to be funny.
 Tuning is part of skiing. If you dont know that, you are really limiting your ability to progress. I spend alot of quality time with my bench consuming hops, filing, scraping and enjoying the tunes  
 Quite often im skiing and see people skidding down the hill and im able to just rip the same conditions. To not give a @#$% about tuning or say that its not important is misinformation:beer:


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## billski (Mar 11, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Im sick of the bickering..spent some time in TGR and its like everyone has lost any sense of decency for the sake of trying to be funny.



Hi Morwax, A Big Welcome!.  

Reasonable people can have reasonable discussions.  Benefits everyone.  Looking forward to your contributions.

Signed, 

Billski, a lowly contributor.


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## Puck it (Mar 11, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Im sick of the bickering..spent some time in TGR and its like everyone has lost any sense of decency for the sake of trying to be funny.
> Tuning is part of skiing. If you dont know that, you are really limiting your ability to progress. I spend alot of quality time with my bench consuming hops, filing, scraping and enjoying the tunes
> Quite often im skiing and see people skidding down the hill and im able to just rip the same conditions. To not give a @#$% about tuning or say that its not important is misinformation:beer:


 
So, you are carving and the the others are skidding. Who cares. Bet they are having fun. I am not saying tuning is not important for you or me, but for some people, it is not. And it is not misinformation. Some people do nt want to progress they are in the comfort zone so. My point is nobody is right or wrong about how they want their skis tuned. You like yours your way and I like mine another way. It is not wrong, but a lot of people tend to slam for differing points of view when it is a personal preference thing.


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## goldsbar (Mar 11, 2011)

Everyone's pissy from the NCP.  Assuming you do want sharp edges - this is a northeast forum - Isn't the lesson from all this to:

1.  Don't let anyone mess with your ride.  Stay away from shops.  This isn't the first post like this.

2.  Buy a file, diamond stones (100,200, 400-1200 depending how crazy mirror like you want to go), vice & side edge guide (2* or 3* is fine; I prefer the SVST non adjustable guides but suppose plastic do it alls will work).

3.  Learn how to tune.  Check Epic forums or youtube videos.  (Hint - never touch your base edge with anything more than a light stone unless you know what you're doing).

4.  Experiment.  I never dull edges but could see it being useful for certain bump skiing conditions.


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## RSTuthill (Mar 12, 2011)

Morwax said:


> Tuning is part of skiing. If you dont know that, you are really limiting your ability to progress. *I spend a lot of quality time with my bench consuming hops, filing, scraping and enjoying the tunes.* Quite often I'm skiing and see people skidding down the hill and I'm able to just rip the same conditions.:


Hear!! Hear!!

Absolutely, especially the consuming the hops and listening to the tunes part. It is a lot of fun and a complete ritual. And when you get it all just right, when you can carve on the blue pond ice patches yet smoke everyone on the flats without any effort at all ... it just makes your day. There's nothing like well prepared skis.


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## Scruffy (Mar 12, 2011)

Puck it said:


> I am.  Loving screwing with people. But I do not go around telling people that they do not their arse from a hole in the ground like some do.  Unless it is dmc, just screwing with you man.
> 
> Way to many pontificating arses, spewing drabble, that is what PO's me.  Just do not slam when someone is trying to help.  It happens a lot around here.  Just how I read a lot of these posts.



You seem to have a "BONE" to pick with this issue. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much". What happened ? some ski coach stick a file up your arse for not tuning your skis when you where a wee lad or lase?

Look if you want to skid around on rounded edges, go for it, have all the f@%king fun you want. Hell .. run your $1200 skis over bare rocks and really F@#K them up, then ski down Vermont blue ice if that makes you happy; just don't skid into anyone on the way.  No one is saying YOU are not doing it correctly. What some are offering to others that are willing to learn is adivce that could enhance their skiing experience. If you are completly satisfied with your skiing experience, then by all means, "keep on truckin"


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## gmcunni (Mar 12, 2011)

i tried to really sharpen my skies tonight, tomorrow is going to be great or really suck depending on how well i did.


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## RSTuthill (Mar 12, 2011)

goldsbar said:


> 4.  Experiment.  I never dull edges but could see it being useful for certain bump skiing conditions.


I don't usually either unless it is speed skis we are talking about. Then I do detune the tips just a little and just a very short distance -- maybe an inch and not really really dull or round. I do not see the point in doing the tails. Speed skis swim a bit when they are flat and at speed. Not good for the tip to be catching although this is more intuitive than anything else. And of course speed skis get more base bevel and less edge bevel.


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## ski_resort_observer (Mar 12, 2011)

rtibbs4 said:


> To follow up. Emailed the ski shop and they said bring them back and they would take care of it.



Glad to hear it....would have been better if you posted this 5 or 6 pages ago. This thread has gotten way away from your recently tuned skis are grabby. :wink: 

I tune my skis by dragging them behind the truck and driving over pavement for about a mile.


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## Puck it (Mar 13, 2011)

Scruffy said:


> You seem to have a "BONE" to pick with this issue. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much". What happened ? some ski coach stick a file up your arse for not tuning your skis when you where a wee lad or lase?
> 
> Look if you want to skid around on rounded edges, go for it, have all the f@%king fun you want. Hell .. run your $1200 skis over bare rocks and really F@#K them up, then ski down Vermont blue ice if that makes you happy; just don't skid into anyone on the way.  No one is saying YOU are not doing it correctly. What some are offering to others that are willing to learn is adivce that could enhance their skiing experience. If you are completly satisfied with your skiing experience, then by all means, "keep on truckin"



Nope. Just tired of people spewing their ideas as the right way or no way.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 13, 2011)

Morwax said:


> View attachment 4417
> The bench



There's a thread for that: http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=17545&highlight=tuning+bench


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## gmcunni (Mar 14, 2011)

gmcunni said:


> i tried to really sharpen my skies tonight, tomorrow is going to be great or really suck depending on how well i did.



learned a lesson that i wanted to share, in the event you are not smart like me.

first, the sharpening i did seemed to go OK. i didn't ruin them to the point where i had problems skiing.

The lesson i learned - when skiing with your children, especially ones who are still learning and tend to ski slower than you even on a good day, it doesn't pay to wax your skis and not theirs. Makes for a lot of waiting around


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## Bobt2ski (Mar 14, 2011)

rtibbs4 said:


> To follow up. Emailed the ski shop and they said bring them back and they would take care of it.



So be it.


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