# Cannon 12/18 - Short and to the point



## Smellytele (Dec 18, 2011)

Once I got over arguing with my 10 year old and got on the slopes at 9:15, the top off the quad was pretty scrapped off. Down from just above the Eagle Cliff Chair they were blowing and it was bumped up nicely. Just did laps on that all day.


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## Abubob (Dec 18, 2011)

What did you argue about? Whether to go to the Loon or not? or was it political?


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## Puck it (Dec 19, 2011)

I there yesaterday until 12.  Under the guns was skiing great.  Nice bumps were setting up on Lower Cannon.  Unseeded of course. Middle Cannon and Spookie were pretty scraped of by noon.  Gary's and Rocket were getting the love of the guns.  At 10 degrees, I would think they would have more guns going.  They really needed some new gun tech.


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## Smellytele (Dec 19, 2011)

Abubob said:


> What did you argue about? Whether to go to the Loon or not? or was it political?



First we were arguing about him carrying his stuff after he threw it on the ground. Then he didn't want to wear his balaclava so he didn't then was cold on the lift so we had to go back in so he could put it on. Then he complained his left foot hurt and I rebuckled it  - then his right foot hurt and I rebuckled that. Then he said his feet still hurt so I said I am done with you and skied 2 runs with my other 2 kids. When I came back down to find him he was gone and he came skiing up to me after taking a run on his own. He apologized and was fine for the rest of the day.


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## Puck it (Dec 19, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> First we were arguing about him carrying his stuff after he threw it on the ground. Then he didn't want to wear his balaclava so he didn't then was cold on the lift so we had to go back in so he could put it on. Then he complained his left foot hurt and I rebuckled it - then his right foot hurt and I rebuckled that. Then he said his feet still hurt so I said I am done with you and skied 2 runs with my other 2 kids. When I came back down to find him he was gone and he came skiing up to me after taking a run on his own. He apologized and was fine for the rest of the day.


 
Are you sure he wasn't upset by the environmental damage over Mittersill?


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## hammer (Dec 19, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> First we were arguing about him carrying his stuff after he threw it on the ground. Then he didn't want to wear his balaclava so he didn't then was cold on the lift so we had to go back in so he could put it on. Then he complained his left foot hurt and I rebuckled it  - then his right foot hurt and I rebuckled that. Then he said his feet still hurt so I said I am done with you and skied 2 runs with my other 2 kids. When I came back down to find him he was gone and he came skiing up to me after taking a run on his own. He apologized and was fine for the rest of the day.


So I guess I'm not the only parent who has had to deal with stuff like this.  Makes me glad my kids are older...I think...


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 19, 2011)

hammer said:


> So I guess I'm not the only parent who has had to deal with stuff like this.  Makes me glad my kids are older...I think...



Yeah that made me feel better about the crap i go through with my son sometimes!



Puck it said:


> Are you sure he wasn't upset by the environmental damage over Mittersill?



What a well placed comment, mademe laugh!


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## riverc0il (Dec 19, 2011)

Puck it said:


> I there yesaterday until 12.  Under the guns was skiing great.  Nice bumps were setting up on Lower Cannon.  Unseeded of course. Middle Cannon and Spookie were pretty scraped of by noon.  Gary's and Rocket were getting the love of the guns.  At 10 degrees, I would think they would have more guns going.  They really needed some new gun tech.


I was impressed with the guns going on Saturday. They were blowing all of Lower Cannon and Gary's with tons of guns. Seemed much more aggressive than the pre-JD days... seemed like they must have been going at full capacity with not a compressor and gun to spare. If they can have Gary's and Rocket by next weekend, that would be quite good. I'm used to Cannon only blowing one trail at a time...


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## Puck it (Dec 19, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I was impressed with the guns going on Saturday. They were blowing all of Lower Cannon and Gary's with tons of guns. Seemed much more aggressive than the pre-JD days... seemed like they must have been going at full capacity with not a compressor and gun to spare. If they can have Gary's and Rocket by next weekend, that would be quite good. I'm used to Cannon only blowing one trail at a time...



I agree, but I have been at Sunapee and they have had top to bottom guns going in the Sun Bowl, HSQ( 2 trails), North peak.  Probably over 100 guns. No way Cannon had that many going.


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## riverc0il (Dec 19, 2011)

Puck it said:


> I agree, but I have been at Sunapee and they have had top to bottom guns going in the Sun Bowl, HSQ( 2 trails), North peak.  Probably over 100 guns. No way Cannon had that many going.


That is because they are state owned. 

I jest. I agree they need to upgrade their system big time. But relative to recent history, they have stepped it up without having added many guns (just a few fan guns around the base, right?). They must need more compressors or money for power. I can't imagine their upper snow making limit is due to a lack of guns. For example, they also have tower guns on Avi that they aren't using right now.


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## Puck it (Dec 19, 2011)

It was cold yesterday. You think the amount of air needed would be considerably less.  I saw one or two tower guns going on Lower Cannon.  These look relatively new compared to the other ground guns.  You are right only two fan guns at the base.


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## threecy (Dec 19, 2011)

Puck it said:


> At 10 degrees, I would think they would have more guns going.  They really needed some new gun tech.



The only 2K vertical ski area in NH that's not open top to bottom.  In fact, Cannon's offering just about (within about 100-200 feet) the same amount of lift served vertical as Ragged and Cranmore.


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## riverc0il (Dec 19, 2011)

threecy said:


> The only 2K vertical ski area in NH that's not open top to bottom.  In fact, Cannon's offering just about (within about 100-200 feet) the same amount of lift served vertical as Ragged and Cranmore.


Acres are more important than top to bottom vert, IMO. Take Wildcat for example. ONE route, top to bottom. That's it. Cannon now has three 100% unique routes (Links to Spookie, Middle to Lower Cannon, and Gary's). Wildcat will get skied off significantly quicker than Cannon and skiers will get bored faster. 

I'll take the Front Five from Zoomer over the Cannonball ANY DAY. Better terrain via the Peabody Express than Ragged or Cranmore regardless of vert. 

How about ragging on Attitash for not being top to bottom with less than 2k vert? Oh yea, you don't have a personal political and moral grudge against Attitash.


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## Puck it (Dec 19, 2011)

It was only a matter of time before Threecy brought in his views. What took so long?


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## riverc0il (Dec 19, 2011)

I'd also like to note that Cannon has had a dedicated beginner terrain for three weeks now. They had dedicated beginner terrain before Waterville and of course Wildcat still is only offering an intermediate route. 

What does that prove? Absolutely frigging nothing. Every ski area is doing the best they can with what they got and using the best plan they can within their limitations. Well, okay, maybe that does prove something. It does prove that threecy is hell bent on only pointing out deficiencies while completely omitting successes of Cannon. Said deficiencies are taken out of context of the bigger picture. 

Just noticed they are looking to add Rocket and Mickey's tomorrow.


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## Abubob (Dec 19, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> First we were arguing about him carrying his stuff after he threw it on the ground. Then he didn't want to wear his balaclava so he didn't then was cold on the lift so we had to go back in so he could put it on. Then he complained his left foot hurt and I rebuckled it  - then his right foot hurt and I rebuckled that. Then he said his feet still hurt so I said I am done with you and skied 2 runs with my other 2 kids. When I came back down to find him he was gone and he came skiing up to me after taking a run on his own. He apologized and was fine for the rest of the day.



I actually remember having similar "discussions" with my Dad. Mine were more equipment function though - kinda like the boot problem. "These skis vibrate" or "These boots hurt - right here" or "I want new googles". I guess since I didn't start skiing until I was 8 I don't remember having a problem carrying my own stuff just the quality of it. Maybe those days are still around the corner for you.


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## Cannonball (Dec 19, 2011)

threecy said:


> The only 2K vertical ski area in NH that's not open top to bottom.  In fact, Cannon's offering just about (within about 100-200 feet) the same amount of lift served vertical as Ragged and Cranmore.



That's a good point.  It's really nice to see a mountain that has both the flexible layout and smart management to capitalize on quality skiing over marketing buzz concepts like vertical feet.   Loon has a good layout too and has decent terrain open.

Wildcat has basically no flexibility because of their lift layout.  So they either go top to bottom on one run...or they stick with weak terrain.  Cannon and Loon have much better options due to their layout.

Who else?  Only 3 resorts of 2K in NH.  So not exactly a huge sample size for you to base Cannon's short-comings on.  

Maybe you were planning to count Waterville.  Why not.  Although they aren't really 2K and they aren't technically open top to bottom (Lower Meadows is their "bottom" and isn't open).  Waterville is a good example of going for the hype.  They are claiming "top to bottom", but they accomplish that by choosing to open High Country over better quality areas.  Nobody likes High Country.  It says something that they often don't have it open mid-season when top to bottom marketing hype doesn't mean anything.  We'd probably be well into another 100 page thread if you found out Cannon was wasting money on superfluous lifts and snowmaking just to appeal to hype.


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## Northernflight (Dec 20, 2011)

I was up there today (or yesterday at this point). They just dropped the ropes on Garys and it was by far the best skiing on the mountain, 100%packed powder and not too heavy. The two routs off the HSQ were a solid sheet of ice in the morning but started skiing better when they picked up the snow drift from the guns going on lower Cannon. Some nice moguls on Cannon and it looks like Rocket will be ready to open soon,huge whales on it.


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## Ski the Moguls (Dec 20, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> Once I got over arguing with my 10 year old . . .





Smellytele said:


> First we were arguing about him carrying his stuff after he threw it on the ground. Then he didn't want to wear his balaclava so he didn't then was cold on the lift so we had to go back in so he could put it on. Then he complained his left foot hurt and I rebuckled it  - then his right foot hurt and I rebuckled that. Then he said his feet still hurt so I said I am done with you and skied 2 runs with my other 2 kids. When I came back down to find him he was gone and he came skiing up to me after taking a run on his own. He apologized and was fine for the rest of the day.


Please tell me you left a *10 year old*, not matter how badly behaved, in the care of a responsible adult. When I read this it sounds like you abandoned him in a public place.


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## threecy (Dec 20, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I'd also like to note that Cannon has had a dedicated beginner terrain for three weeks now.



That's simply incorrect.  They've had 9 days with dedicated beginner terrain open.


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## riverc0il (Dec 20, 2011)

threecy said:


> That's simply incorrect.  They've had 9 days with dedicated beginner terrain open.


:roll:

And they had Eaglecliff open prior to the last two weekends. I guess that can't be called "dedicated" but it does service a green trail... and it was still way more than Waterville Valley had for beginner terrain. And I'll use WV since you like to compare the two so much. 

All I'm pointing out is your inconsistency. You beat up on Cannon when it serves your purposes. But when Cannon does things better than Waterville (beginner terrain sooner, more acres open, skiing to the lodge from day one instead of up/down loading, better terrain offerings for early season, high speed lift to access terrain from day one instead of the slowest lift in the east, etc.) you ignore those items.


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## skidmarks (Dec 20, 2011)

Have they started the snowmaking on Mittersill yet?


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## threecy (Dec 20, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I'd also like to note that Cannon has had a dedicated beginner terrain for three weeks now.





threecy said:


> That's simply incorrect.  They've had 9 days with dedicated beginner terrain open.





riverc0il said:


> :roll:
> 
> And they had Eaglecliff open prior to the last two weekends.



As recently as Saturday December 10th, which is a lot less than 3 weeks ago:


> At the moment the hill is not suitable for beginners & first timers, but we hope to open the Brookside Learning Area as well as the Eagle Cliff Triple for Sunday.



9 days, not 21 days ("3 weeks").



> *All I'm pointing out is your inconsistency.* You beat up on Cannon when it serves your purposes. But when Cannon does things better than Waterville (beginner terrain sooner, more acres open, skiing to the lodge from day one instead of up/down loading, better terrain offerings for early season, high speed lift to access terrain from day one instead of the *slowest lift in the east*, etc.) you ignore those items.



Incorrect.  I forget if it was here or elsewhere, but it's been noted that the High Country drive was upgraded recently.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2011)

High Camp could be serviced by a Funitel and it would still suck.


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## Northernflight (Dec 20, 2011)

> That's simply incorrect. They've had 9 days with dedicated beginner terrain open.



Playing that game and watervilles had 4? if you want to count the t-bar, otherwise 0. There shouldn't be an argument here. Both mountains are using different techniques to open as much terrain as they can with the crappy start they've had. We should all just be happy its cold and there is a chance of snow later this week and skiing is happening, and expanding. Cannon now has 4 distinct routs down the mountain with Rocket opening today.


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## threecy (Dec 20, 2011)

Northernflight said:


> Playing that game and watervilles had 4? if you want to count the t-bar, otherwise 0. There shouldn't be an argument here.



Firstly, I didn't make the 3 weeks of beginner terrain claim.  Secondly, Waterville has not operated a T-Bar yet this year.  Thirdly, they've had the Pasture J-Bar area and now the Valley Run.


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## Abubob (Dec 20, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Acres are more important than top to bottom vert, IMO. Take Wildcat for example. ONE route, top to bottom. That's it. Cannon now has three 100% unique routes (Links to Spookie, Middle to Lower Cannon, and Gary's). Wildcat will get skied off significantly quicker than Cannon and skiers will get bored faster.
> 
> I'll take the Front Five from Zoomer over the Cannonball ANY DAY. Better terrain via the Peabody Express than Ragged or Cranmore regardless of vert.



+1 There's really only two reason's I been skiing at Ragged. Price and Proximity. Its only a twenty minute drive for me. 



> How about ragging on Attitash for not being top to bottom with less than 2k vert? Oh yea, you don't have a personal political and moral grudge against Attitash.



oh no ... :roll:


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## witch hobble (Dec 20, 2011)

These Cannon threads are never really short and to the point.


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## 2knees (Dec 20, 2011)

threecy said:


> The only 2K vertical ski area in NH that's not open top to bottom.  In fact, Cannon's offering just about (within about 100-200 feet) the same amount of lift served vertical as Ragged and Cranmore.



tell me you arent going to be popping into Cannon TR's all year to further your agenda.  Doing it in a thread dedicated to cannon's issues and ownership is one thing but crapping in tr's all year would constitute major douchebaggery on your part.


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## JimG. (Dec 20, 2011)

2knees said:


> tell me you arent going to be popping into Cannon TR's all year to further your agenda.  Doing it in a thread dedicated to cannon's issues and ownership is one thing but crapping in tr's all year would constitute major douchebaggery on your part.



I would have to agree with this sentiment.

It cannot continue.


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## Northernflight (Dec 20, 2011)

> Firstly, I didn't make the 3 weeks of beginner terrain claim. Secondly, Waterville has not operated a T-Bar yet this year. Thirdly, they've had the Pasture J-Bar area and now the Valley Run.



my bad, J-Bar.  Valley Run only opened a few days ago, which I am happy about, moving the snow making along and spreading the skiers out but Rivercoil has a legitimate point.



> tell me you arent going to be popping into Cannon TR's all year to further your agenda. Doing it in a thread dedicated to cannon's issues and ownership is one thing but crapping in tr's all year would constitute major douchebaggery on your part.



Agreed, there is a time and place for everything, TRs are not one of them.


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## threecy (Dec 21, 2011)

JimG. said:


> I would have to agree with this sentiment.
> 
> It cannot continue.



I'd encourage you to reread the flow of this thread.




Puck it said:


> Are you sure he wasn't upset by the environmental damage over Mittersill?





jimmywilson69 said:


> What a well placed comment, mademe laugh!





riverc0il said:


> That is because they are state owned.
> 
> I jest. I agree they need to upgrade their system big time. But relative to recent history, they have stepped it up without having added many guns (just a few fan guns around the base, right?). They must need more compressors or money for power. I can't imagine their upper snow making limit is due to a lack of guns. For example, they also have tower guns on Avi that they aren't using right now.





threecy said:


> The only 2K vertical ski area in NH that's not open top to bottom.  In fact, Cannon's offering just about (within about 100-200 feet) the same amount of lift served vertical as Ragged and Cranmore.





Puck it said:


> It was only a matter of time before Threecy brought in his views. What took so long?


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## riverc0il (Dec 21, 2011)

I reread the thread before this latest comment. And threecy is somewhat correct in that his assertion if coming from any other person would not have been pot stirring but rather just jumping into a discussion. But at this point in time, anything threecy says about/against Cannon can be seen as agenda driven. I read threecy's original post in this thread in the context of his already having bashed Cannon for not starting snowmaking at the summit. His original post in this thread seems innocent enough but based on prior posts was clearly agenda driven and meant as a slam.

And unlike threecy, I'll admit when I'm wrong. Apparently threecy is recording Cannon's daily snow report for posterity sake (um... get a life? or more agenda building?) so if threecy has every snow report for Cannon going back three weeks then he probably has his facts on the lift openings better in line than I do. Out of curiosity, when did Waterville open a beginner area like Cannon's Brookside?


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## JimG. (Dec 21, 2011)

threecy said:


> I'd encourage you to reread the flow of this thread.



I read it carefully. Just because someone baits you into responding does not mean you have to swallow the bait hook, line, and sinker.

All I ask is that you do not turn every Cannon thread into a policy debate...we have enough of those threads already.


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## threecy (Dec 21, 2011)

JimG. said:


> I read it carefully. Just bacause someone baits you into responding does not mean you have to swallow the bait hook, line, and sinker.
> 
> All I ask is that you do not turn every Cannon thread into a policy debate...we have enough of those threads already.



I'd ask you to read it again.  Where did I make a single reference to policy?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 21, 2011)

threecy said:


> I'd ask you to read it again.  Where did I make a single reference to policy?



Technically, it's not policy driven, so you're correct there.  However, you did take the opportunity to slam how Cannon is running it's operation.  

Seems like pressing your political agenda concerning Cannon or being extremely critical of how the mountain is operated represents about 90% of your contribution to discussions on AZ for quite a while now.  If you can't tell, the forum membership is sick of it.


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## jimmywilson69 (Dec 21, 2011)

threecy said:


> I'd encourage you to reread the flow of this thread.



Actually my comment was not directed at you, as I celarly never mentioned "threecy".  I made a funny comment about the environmental damage at mittersil, which If I am not mistaken, actually happened.   

So I respectfully ask that you not slander me, while trying to defend your actions in a *Trail Report*


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