# Boy dies in Okemo ski crash



## RossiSkier (Feb 9, 2005)

The Rutland Herald
Boy dies in Okemo ski crash
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050209/NEWS/502090344/1003

_Police said the boy was not wearing a helmet._


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## JD (Feb 9, 2005)

Whoa,  what do you say to that.


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## andyzee (Feb 9, 2005)

Well that sucks.


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## dmc (Feb 9, 2005)

Inherent risk...

Feel bad - mourn - move on...
Glad the ski team is still going on!!!


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## hammer (Feb 9, 2005)

dmc said:
			
		

> Inherent risk...
> 
> Feel bad - mourn - move on...
> Glad the ski team is still going on!!!


Agree...but it's always tough when it's a kid.

I remember being pretty nervous the first few times my son went off to Nashoba for ski school.  He has always worn a helmet, but I knew that doing so didn't make him immune to injury.


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## Vortex (Feb 9, 2005)

Another one ...... Really sad it was young kid.


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## dmc (Feb 9, 2005)

hammer said:
			
		

> dmc said:
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It is tough... I feel terrible...
But I've known a few people that died on the hill...   
And it's their legacy that we ski our asses off!!!  But maybe learn from their tradgedy...


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## gores95 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Where's the helmet?*

Terrible tragedy but I am SHOCKED that the ski club did not have MANDATORY helmet use.  Our ski club in NJ does not allow your kid to ski without a helmet.  Liability and safety issues.


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## JimG. (Feb 9, 2005)

dmc said:
			
		

> Inherent risk...
> 
> Feel bad - mourn - move on...
> Glad the ski team is still going on!!!



My oldest son David is 10...this one is tough for me to read  .
I hear you about the feel bad and mourn parts, but does one ever really "move on" or do we accept death as best as we can and learn to live with it? I don't know if you ever really get over it.

Sorry for getting philosophical; I pray I never have to find out with respect to my children.


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## KingM (Feb 9, 2005)

That's sad. My son is  nine and like JimG it breaks my heart to think of someone losing a young son to this kind of accident.

With children I think the policy should be "no helmet, no ski."


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## BrockVond (Feb 9, 2005)

KingM said:
			
		

> With children I think the policy should be "no helmet, no ski."



Absolutely. I still find it unbelievable that any child is allowed on any  mountain to ski without a helmet. It's senseless.


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 9, 2005)

I think the inurance companies will require helmets (at least for children) eventually.


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## Zand (Feb 9, 2005)

My school does not require us to wear helmets. I don't wear one now. I tried one one year and probably will never use one. I've hit trees, ice, bumps, and people head first without a helmet and I haven't been hurt. I've only had a concussion once in my life and I WAS wearing a helmet. Figures.


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## awf170 (Feb 9, 2005)

Zand said:
			
		

> My school does not require us to wear helmets. I don't wear one now. I tried one one year and probably will never use one. I've hit trees, ice, bumps, and people head first without a helmet and I haven't been hurt. I've only had a concussion once in my life and I WAS wearing a helmet. Figures.


Thats weird because i heard about that.  Like if it is a bad helmet or does not fit right it can actaully make accidents worse.  I dont know how a helmet could make it worse, but maybe.  I always where a helmet but that is manly because i think they are comfortable and very warm, the only thing that annoys me is that you cant hear very well.


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## BrockVond (Feb 9, 2005)

uphillklimber said:
			
		

> In this case, ask yourself, would a helmet have made much difference?



I think it's common sense that it would have made some difference. How much? Who knows. But even if there was a small chance that a helmet would have saved this 10 year old boy's life, isn't that worth pursuing?




> The injuries that took his life were to the head, stomach and chest. That helmet, if it looks like the ones I'm used to seeing, does not protect the stomach and chest, any more than it protects the face.


Most ski fatalities are caused by blunt trauma to the head. While trauma to the chest and stomach can certainly kill you, I'm willing to bet that this boy would still be alive today if he had not hit his head.



> Depends how fast he was going. Over 8 mph, and it kinda doesn't really matter.


 Not sure that's true. Btw, this was the same argument against passenger car seatbelts. "Over XX miles an hour, it won't matter. Everyone will die" Yet seatbelts have saved thousands and thousands of lives.

Anyway, it's just really sad to see someone so young lose their life. I think helmets will reduce those numbers once they are mandatory.


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## RossiSkier (Feb 10, 2005)

Ski death prompts look at helmet use

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050210/NEWS/502100352/1003


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## JimG. (Feb 10, 2005)

I wear a helmet when I'm biking; wouldn't consider doing it without one.
I wear a helmet skiing for the same reason.

It may not save my life, but it can't hurt.


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## bvibert (Feb 10, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> It may not save my life, but it can't hurt.



Thats the way I look at it, and it keeps my head warm.


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## hammer (Feb 10, 2005)

IMO, the laws for helmets while skiing should be the same as those for biking.  I don't know if that would have helped in this case, but I've heard too many stories about kids getting hurt where the helmet would have definitely helped.


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## ctenidae (Feb 10, 2005)

Hammer- the laws are the same- there's no law requiring helmets for either activity, anymore than there are for most activities, except driving.
uphillklimber's got it right. Especially on the "you're not Superman in a helmet" bit.


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## hammer (Feb 10, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> Hammer- the laws are the same- there's no law requiring helmets for either activity, anymore than there are for most activities, except driving.


Is that in VT or MA?  I thought that MA had a bicycle helmet law, but I don't know about any other NE states.


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## bvibert (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm pretty sure that CT has a bicycle law for children.  I could be wrong though, it was definately proposed at some point if not.


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## JimG. (Feb 10, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> uphillklimber's got it right. Especially on the "you're not Superman in a helmet" bit.



It is true that human nature defeats many advances made to increase safety; we think we are safer and that these advances will save our lives and we act with more recklessness. The net result is often zero. ABS is a prime example...yes, it will prevent skidding, but if you are not responsible enough to acknowledge that braking distances are increased and therefore leave more room to stop, you will smash into objects anyway.

With that in mind, it is possible that laws enacted to mandate helmet use might cause the unintended effect of increasing recklessness by causing individuals to think the helmet will "save" them in a crisis. However, there is NO DOUBT that someone who wears a helmet and uses a little common sense is better protected than someone who does not wear a helmet.

I take chances skiing, but I'm not reckless or stupid. The helmet will not save my life if I hit something going 50MPH out of control, but I am certainly better protected from injury due to falls or collisions.


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## tekweezle (Feb 10, 2005)

i wear a helmet.  while a helmet won;t  save you in every situation,  i think   helmets are good to have as well as some common sense.   i would never go into a terrain park or half pipe without one.

i don;t know if i am for or against mandatory helmet laws.  maybe for children under 10?    the most arguements I hear against helmets is that it;s additional cost, they look ugly, and no one wants to regulate the sport and infringe on our choices of head gear.  in my opinion, the cost of a helmet is not much if it;s some measure of insurance for your life and well being.  if i had children learning to ski, they would be wearing helmets for my own piece of mind. 

who knows why this child died.  it was a tragedy.  fortunately, accidents like these are rare.  he was admittedly the best skier  and the last skier to come down.  perhaps he went off the side of the trail on purpose to jump off the lip.  this time maybe he just lost control in the worst way.  I;ve seen it many  times.  his best protection against injury could have been  just  plain old common sense to not ski too close to the edge.  i know, that's where the best, untouched snow is.  having a helmet couldn;t have hurt the situation either.


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## JimG. (Feb 10, 2005)

tekweezle said:
			
		

> the last skier to come down.



Nobody seems to have locked in on this problem. Why was he the last one down? Where was his chaperone? They had to go back up the lift and ski down the trail again only to find him off the trail in the woods. 

I'm NOT blaming the chaperone, but if they had been the last to ski down they might have warned him not to ski on the edge or, at worst, they could have been there after the accident and tended to him. Who knows, maybe that could have saved him.

I coached kids for years, high level skiers who love bumps and jumps and speed. Never lost a student on the hill in 15 years...never had to go looking for one either. That's because I was always aware of my responsibility to stay with them no matter what and to make sure they were accounted for and ahead of me at the end of the day. 

This situation isn't as simple as lack of helmet use.


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## BrockVond (Feb 10, 2005)

ctenidae said:
			
		

> Hammer- the laws are the same- there's no law requiring helmets for either activity, anymore than there are for most activities, except driving.



Not true, of course.

http://www.helmets.org/mandator.htm


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## ctenidae (Feb 10, 2005)

Interesting, I stand corrected. Based on that, I'd guess ski helmet laws are not far behind.


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## JimG. (Feb 11, 2005)

BrockVond said:
			
		

> ctenidae said:
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Even if it isn't state law, most biking areas require helmets and do check and patrol to make sure riders wear them.


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## Statyk (Feb 11, 2005)

it may sound cold to look at it like this but without wearing a helmet and skiing above your ability you're asking for trouble.

that sucks though


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## tekweezle (Feb 11, 2005)

i agree with the statement above.  we'lll never know but it might have been a case of youthful exuberance that caused this situation.

there is a fine line between pushing your abilities and skiing above them.  I usually tell the people I ski with to challenge themselves, know your limits but don;t  limit yourself.  it;s amazing what people can do when they believe they can do it witht he right attitude.   overcoming fear and self doubt is the biggest obstacle in skiing.  i used to be deathly afraid of heights but i got over it.

now a days, when possible, if I ski in a group with weaker skiers, we have one strong skier lead the way and another to follow  behind and pickup any fallen skiers.  we also run with 2 way radios just  in case. 

there is no easy answer.  I am just grateful that these accidents are not commonplace.


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## hammer (Feb 11, 2005)

tekweezle said:
			
		

> overcoming fear and self doubt is the biggest obstacle in skiing.  i used to be deathly afraid of heights but i got over it.


I hear you on this one.  Since I'm a pilot and flying never bothered me, however, I considered my fear of heights to actually be a "fear of falling".  I've always wondered if, in some strange way, that fear (and the desire to overcome it) is part of what got me hooked on skiing.

It's great when kids can take up skiing before they know enough to be afraid.  Unfortunately, that also means that they may take risks that us "old and scared" folks would not.  The best that we can do is make sure that kids use whatever safety equipment is available out there, remind them about the importance of staying in control, being safe, and having fun, and then hoping for the best.

[stepping down from soapbox]


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## LarryNH914 (Feb 11, 2005)

*My Helmet story.*

Last year was my first year wearing a helmet.

I ski fast and fall perhaps twice a season, ususally not at speed.

But this was an exception, late in the day, loose granular with large ice patches.

Going quite fast... 40mph? over a rise to see a large ice patch with a huge mogule of loose granular in my path, attempt to change direction failed and I hit the mogule sideways, went into the air, rotating onto my back. Back of my skis hit the slope and my back, AND HEAD, slammed into the ice. I swear I could feel my brain sloshing around in there (what is left of it anyhow). People were amazed I was not hurt.

Won't go without a helmet again.  I was going over 8mph for sure, not sure if my head was slammed into the ice over 8mph, so take the 8mph thing with a HUGE grain of salt.


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## tekweezle (Feb 11, 2005)

i've hit my head on the ice before.  it;s not as soft as it looks!  all it takes is one bad fall to make you a believer!  a little insurance can go a  long way.


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## RossiSkier (Feb 14, 2005)

_*Making helmets for skiers available*_
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050214/NEWS/502140325/1037


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## tekweezle (Feb 14, 2005)

maybe if helmet makers donated some to mountains for rentals and resorts made it mandatory for level 3 and under skiers as included in a learn to ski package, they might see helmet sales in general go through the roof.   it would help all except maybe the makers of fuzzy hats.

education and introduction is the key.  yeah, i know all about making an expensive sport even more unattainable but by selling more quantity, maybe they can drop the price of helmets to say under 30$.  as it is, I am getting plenty of mileage out of my $49 Giro from Sports Authority.  besides, if given the decision of renting a helmet versus buying your own, i think most would buy.


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## smootharc (Feb 22, 2005)

*As an avid skier....*

....and rock climber, and motorcycle rider (sportbike), and mountain biker, and....you get the picture - I am constantly in conflict over issues of risk assessment and risk tolerance.  As an adult, I make informed choices for myself based on my analysis of risk, and accept the consequences of my choices.  With my children, I make those choices for them.  

Every parent has a little secret box they hide away inside that holds their fear of ever losing a child to accident, illness or worse. And learning that an unfortunate parent has had this little box ripped open always makes me shudder, and feel a sadness that words just can't quite describe.


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## TeleGrrrl (Feb 23, 2005)

As  nurse in a large ER and trauma center, I'm a strong advocate for seatbelts and helmets. I belong to the Emergency Nurses Assoc. and we are currenlty working in Maine to have legislation added on a bill that would require helmets on kids 13 and under when skiing. Maine already has a bicycle helmet law for children, which has really had a positive impact on decreasing the number head injuries in kids.

Losing a child is very traumatic for the parents and the ER staff


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## Greg (Feb 23, 2005)

TeleGrrrl said:
			
		

> ...and we are currenlty working in Maine to have legislation added on a bill that would require helmets on kids 13 and under when skiing.


Interesting. But how do you enforce it? There are many 14 year olds that look 11 or 12 and vice versa. Also, by mandating something like this, isn't it more likely that when the kid turns 14 he's gonna say, "I'm 14 now...old enough to not have to wear the helmet..."? Don't get me wrong; I think all kids should wear a helmet and as a recent convert to the ranks of the helmeted, it's probably a good idea for everybody, but the ultimate responsibility lies with the parents.


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## TeleGrrrl (Feb 23, 2005)

We have a similiar law here for bicycles, and if the child is caught without a helmet, the parent gets fined 25 bucks the first offense. Seems to work quite well. The police and bicycle safety officers pass out free bike helmets for kids that can't afford them. A similiar  free helmet program will have to be developed for children that can't afford to buy one. Hopefully by the time the child turns 14, they're used to wearing a helmet and continue to wear one.


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## JimG. (Feb 23, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> the ultimate responsibility lies with the parents.



For children, yes.

I agree with your assessment about reaching the age limit and then tossing the helmet too. I mentioned earlier in the thread about how humans subconsciously defeat safety measures by being more reckless.

I don't like the idea of making laws to mandate helmet use, but alot of folks need protection from themselves and the bad choices they make. And we all make bad choices now and then, so nobody is immune.

No helmet, no ski? I'm sure that idea would cause some tension.


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## Greg (Feb 23, 2005)

TeleGrrrl said:
			
		

> We have a similiar law here for bicycles, and if the child is caught without a helmet, the parent gets fined 25 bucks the first offense. Seems to work quite well. The police and bicycle safety officers pass out free bike helmets for kids that can't afford them. A similiar  free helmet program will have to be developed for children that can't afford to buy one. Hopefully by the time the child turns 14, they're used to wearing a helmet and continue to wear one.


Yeah, but how is it enforced? Is ski patrol supposed to ask kids for their birth certificate or something? I'm not trying to be snide....


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## hammer (Feb 23, 2005)

Greg said:
			
		

> Interesting. But how do you enforce it? There are many 14 year olds that look 11 or 12 and vice versa. Also, by mandating something like this, isn't it more likely that when the kid turns 14 he's gonna say, "I'm 14 now...old enough to not have to wear the helmet..."? Don't get me wrong; I think all kids should wear a helmet and as a recent convert to the ranks of the helmeted, it's probably a good idea for everybody, but the ultimate responsibility lies with the parents.


Good point on the enforcement...with helmet laws, at least there are police patrolling the neighborhoods who can ID kids who don't wear helmets.

I think a spot where a helmet check can be done is when lift tickets are checked.  It may be tough to get the 13 YO kids but most people want to get 12 and unders a cheaper lift ticket.  So, when a lift ticket is checked and it's a youth ticket, then the kid either has a helmet or doesn't get on the lift.


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## Greg (Feb 23, 2005)

hammer said:
			
		

> I think a spot where a helmet check can be done is when lift tickets are checked.  It may be tough to get the 13 YO kids but most people want to get 12 and unders a cheaper lift ticket.  So, when a lift ticket is checked and it's a youth ticket, then the kid either has a helmet or doesn't get on the lift.


Ahhh...now that's a pretty good approach. Maybe extend the Youth rate to align with the helmet age...?


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## TeleGrrrl (Feb 23, 2005)

Actually that's a great idea! I'll pass it on!!! More suggestions welcomed.


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## JimG. (Feb 23, 2005)

TeleGrrrl said:
			
		

> Actually that's a great idea! I'll pass it on!!! More suggestions welcomed.



Yes, it is a good idea...you might want to consider making the checkpoint at ticket sales and not the lift though; people would be pretty upset if they were sold a ticket and then told they can't get on the lift because of no helmet. Marketing materials would have to boldly state the policy too.

Happy campers are more likely to abide by the rules.


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## hammer (Feb 23, 2005)

JimG. said:
			
		

> TeleGrrrl said:
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Agree...when the lift ticket is purchased, do a helmet check, and if they don't have one then offer a helmet rental.
The check at the lift could also be done to make sure that they are in fact being worn...


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