# Kayaks for beginners



## highpeaksdrifter (Jun 15, 2007)

My wife and I want to take up this sport. We where thinking of buying a 2 person kayak. Is there any downside to it as opposed to buying 2 singles? Any recommendations? Thanks.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2007)

I'd suggest looking *HERE* for reviews and advice.  

For single kayaks, I've really enjoyed my Wilderness Systems Pamlico 100 (MSRP $425).  Ms. TB loves her Perception Prodigy 10 (MSRP $299).  Both are at EMS.  

It comes down to what you want to paddle, how long you want to go out, your experience, budget, etc.  My latest entry in my kayaking journal (in Misc. Forum) discusses my comparison between boats...


----------



## cbcbd (Jun 15, 2007)

"Divorce boats"? 

Only downside is that, because they're big and wide to accommodate two people... they are big, wide and heavy - a drag to paddle if you ever want to paddle it alone (very heavy to carry one alone too) - fine with two people. 

And, not saying that it's easy to capsize these boats and that it'll happen often, but if it does happen then you are SOL - with two kayaks you at least have someone there to do a rescue is someone goes over. You should get stern and bow floats for your tandem if you do get one.

But like TB said, get whatever fits what you'll be paddling.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2007)

Also be looking for demo days.  Had one two weeks ago at EMS up here, and another last weekend in Burlington, VT through Canoe Imports.


----------



## Grassi21 (Jun 15, 2007)

And the virus spreads...  I just got back form a 1 hr. paddle.  I will post some pics and a little summary this evening.  

HPD, I bought a used demo boat for about half the price of a new one.  I went with a 16 footer and love it.  But as cbcbd and Tb said, find the right boat for you and your wife and enjoy.  The link TB posted has great reviews.  I used them heavily when selecting my boat.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Jun 15, 2007)

cbcbd said:


> "Divorce boats"?



I am gonna agree.  Me and a friend rented one several years ago at a lake.  It was alot more work paddling the one boat that the two of us splitting up into our own boats.  Then there is the times when one person wants to go a bit different route.  We were also constantly banging paddles.

In the end a 1 person is a whole lot more fun.


----------



## bigbog (Jun 16, 2007)

*....tandem kayaking....*

...Another _addiction_ *highpeaksdrifter*...;-),
 Ok, here's bigbog's $.01 of _old-school 101-104_..;-);-)...not the definitive answers, just old school;-) that works...  

 Whatever you're choosing to do(rental-solos/tandem)....you might want to think about NOT seeking out the lightest & fastest!....a more barge-like hull/boat as a beginner boat will indeed be slower, but it'll give you higher resistance(higher initial-stability) ...that will help you develop your balance skills more comfortably...(letting your relaxed hips and lower body...flow _with_ the hull!).....quite a similarity as in shopping for skis: take a beginner > give him a World Cup ski = don't expect him to be skiing comfortably and brimming with confidence at the end of the day. 
Learning how to easily do the "wet-exit" is always a confidence builder...learn to do it in play, then you both'll stay more relaxed in the hips...IMO.   

Enjoy yourselves.........
$.01


----------



## AHM (Jun 17, 2007)

*First define what you want the boat to do.............*

Uphillclimber has gone nuts on this, and has many excellent points, however, there are a couple things to consider that he misses and an answer to your question:

1.  Buy single kayaks:  one for you and one for your wife.  This way either can go without the other or take a friend.
2.  Determine where and what you want to paddle before buying a boat.  Are you a day tourer, then a shorter boat that does not have two hatches will probably do.  Are you going to camp out of it, then a two hatch, more touring boat, such as the perception carolina that uhc mentions (this is actually the boat my wife and I have).  Will you portage it, if so, then I like plastic cus they take a solid beating-->ie if you are going to do the 7 carries as a day trip (then it will be 13), you may do some dragging and banging. For this reason I like plastic.  It is also cheap.  A carolina with rudder is about 1100.00 new.  It will be 600 or 650 from Mt Man Outdoor in Old Forge/Inlet about Labor day weekend.
3.  Buy Yakima rollers (at least one set/boat) to load them on your car.  A vertical hull rack (like a hull raiser) is fine for men, but can be more difficult for women to "bench press the boat" up and onto the vertical hull raiser rack.  I use a set of saddles (Yakima land sharks) and a set of rollers for each boat.  My 5'2" wife loves the rollers and lets her easily load the boat onto a subaru outback alone.
4.  Uphillclimber is a bit mistaken on durability of carbon fiber paddles and blades. I use a Werner Kaliste.  It is all carbon and it rocks on big adirondack or ocean days.  Carbon is very durable, will not ding up on rocks, especially in touring or flatwater situations.  Werner tells you that the fiberglass blades are the same strength as carbon, so realize if you plan on doing long days you will want a nice light paddle.  Buy the best paddle you can.
5.  HPD:  your location is so close to great paddling, that you'll find this is a great sport and activity for you and your wife.  Buying kayaks was one of the best moves we made, we use them almost every weekend in the summer, even if its just a few hours for friday "sunset happy hour".  Finally, a boat like a carolina is very stable and excellent to fish out of (a favorite of my wife).
6.  As most have mentioned, go demo some boats.  Since it is summer, and you are not working, go spend a mid week day at Mt Man and paddle away...........any questions let me know.
7.  AZ kayak day ?????  It could be anywhere, any interest ????


----------



## cbcbd (Jun 17, 2007)

Some good info and suggestions here, so I'll add some more:

-Kayaking has a short learning curve, granted you're in it to learn technique. If you do know you'll get into it hard, demo more expensive boats and maybe go for one of those... or just get a really cheap boat now and wait for the urge to come later   ie. Got my Perception Carolina in the late Fall, that next Summer I taught myself how to roll it and was already getting bored. In the spring I got myself a 18' sea kayak.

but...

-Two kayakers paddling together should have similar boats - mostly common in couple situations - you can't have one with a sleek 16' hotrod and the other with a fat 10', flat-bottomed rec kayak. One person will be working much more than the other. If this is going to be an "us" thing, keep to the same style boats for both.

Also, a clarification on the terms Primary and Secondary stability:
-Primary is what you feel when you are sitting in the boat. The flatter the hull, the better it becomes. Primary stability is good for taking pictures, fishing, and all around "brainless" (or hipless) paddling - gives you secure feeling of not going over when you're not paying attention to it... Bad for getting hit on the beam with waves.

-Secondary Stability is the point of capsize. This is how far you can lean the boat on it's edge before you go over. Many hull shape features (how much keel, rocker, chine, beam) will each play a difference in how the boat leans over. Shorter, wider boats won't lean well and will go over sooner if you try... you could tip some sea kayaks almost to 90 degrees before feeling it capsize. 

And lastly...
-No one boat is too many 
Like UHK said, most boats serve one purpose well and with different hull shapes and designs almost every kayak will paddle differently. That's why a friend had 12 boats 

Now get on the water and have a good time!


----------



## bigbog (Jun 17, 2007)

*...demoing's the way to go...*

Getting the _J-Lean/Shape_ or _C-Lean/Shape_ Response(upper/lower body separation).....for maintaining one's balance, is one of the main determining factors whether you can handle a boat with more secondary stability over initial seaworthiness.  Paddling relaxed, offensively, and balanced can jumpstart someone into getting a more advanced boat with more secondary stability...without a doubt.
Guess I should say what *UHK* and *cbcbd* have stated about a boat with high initial stability and low secondary stability is exactly true.....they're designed on the cheap, once you lean their hulls to a certain point, they really cave in(so to speak)...and flip so fast one can hardly react in time to stay upright...it's often easier to grab a good breath of air, go under, and either roll or make a clean exit underneath.  The good PFDs _really_ POP you up!...they're tremendous.

$.01


----------



## highpeaksdrifter (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for all the tips guys. I ended up getting 2 Current Design Krestal 120's (one for my youngest son) and a Perception Prodigy 12 for the misses. We demoed 4 and out of those these are the ones we liked best.


----------



## cbcbd (Jun 19, 2007)

Awesome, have fun with the boats!!


----------



## Grassi21 (Jun 20, 2007)

Happy paddling.


----------



## bigbog (Jun 20, 2007)

*.....more AZ boaters...!*

Great to hear *hpd*!


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 20, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Thanks for all the tips guys. I ended up getting 2 Current Design Krestal 120's (one for my youngest son) and a Perception Prodigy 12 for the misses. We demoed 4 and out of those these are the ones we liked best.



  Wow...this illness is becoming a pandemic of sorts!!!!


----------



## Grassi21 (Jun 20, 2007)

I think we should all move down South in order to extend our paddling season........ 
















kidding of course.


----------



## Sky (Jun 20, 2007)

I bought a kayak last winter (end of winter).  I'm JUST getting over the spring/summer chore list and hope to launch this thing SOON!

It's a Heritage 14' feather-lite.  Got the whole package for $500....boat, paddle, jacket, pads for the roof-rack.  Opted out of the more expensice roof rack AND the whatever it's called...."cover that keeps the water out while you are in"?

I tried a kayak on lake Winnepasaukee last year...but the cockpit was too small for me.  Ended up with my legs outside the boat.  Worked my abs like mad.

This boat has plenty of cockpit space, long enough leg space etc. for me to get in and out (while on the showroom floor anyway).

So thanks for the tips guys, albeit after the fact for me.

As for an AZ event....I'd be interested once I get familiar with the asset.


----------



## Grassi21 (Jun 21, 2007)

Sky said:


> "cover that keeps the water out while you are in"?



I believe its called a spray skirt.  I declined on it when I was buying my gear.  For short paddles (which I mostly do) I can do without it.  But I can see how it is useful on longer days/trips or in rougher water.



> As for an AZ event....I'd be interested once I get familiar with the asset.



That would be sweet.  There are some great spots in CT but I would like to head North and try out some new areas.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 21, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> I believe its called a spray skirt.  I declined on it when I was buying my gear.  For short paddles (which I mostly do) I can do without it.  But I can see how it is useful on longer days/trips or in rougher water.



I may get a spray skirt for future outings....not high on the priority list right now...



> That would be sweet.  There are some great spots in CT but I would like to head North and try out some new areas.



I have the CT River in my backyard.  Great place to BBQ as well.  All right off I-91.  And if anyone wanted to come but did not have a boat, Dartmouth College, just up the river 3-4 miles, has kayak rentals.


----------



## AHM (Jun 21, 2007)

*A kayak weekend or day trip is starting to sound possible........*

All,

Many seem interested in a kayaking get together.  This could happen a couple places:  As TB said, right near his house, another spot is not too far from HPD in the Inlet/Old Forge part of the adirondacks.  Also, either Boston shore (Hingham harbor) or LI would be doable.  We could set it up for either July or August.  In Sept, I typically kayak ME for a week and the adirondacks for at least two weekends due to the excellent colors that can be taken in from the kayak.  During the ADK trips, I typically camp near or at Fish Creek Campgrounds.  Anyone interested is more than welcome to join in.  ADK paddling is usually last couple weeks of Sept.  ME trip is around Sept 8 - Sept 15 or so.

Spray skirt:  If you buy a skirt, but a good one.  If you are learning to roll, you need a good sealing skirt.  It will need to seal both around the deck and in the tunnel (which is around the kayaker).  Good manufacturers are Bomber Gear, Mt Surf, and Seals.  Make sure when picking out a skirt, that you sit in your boat and ensure that you can easily attach it around the deck combing.

See ya on the water.............


----------



## bigbog (Jun 21, 2007)

*MountainSurf's Sprayskirt Fit-List*

Here's MountainSurf's sprayskirt fit-list: (for Recreational/Touring boats)

MountainSurf Fit-List

 Bombproof performance...that is, after one does acquire a roll....AND they do keep your body heat inside...in cooler weather!   But until then.....not that necessary if a wet-exit is the default method if one flips....as they do have a price.
One just has to weigh the cost with the need....  
*For Recreational(Touring) other brands with less pricey skirts may do fine.....but MS is a favorite of many.  Their grab-loops are nice & large;-)
Now I'll shut-up


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 21, 2007)

Well, we can have multiple kayak outings :wink:


----------



## Sky (Jul 10, 2007)

Well, I avoided this as long as possible....but with work and other activities, I have not launched the kayak yet.  :<

So tonight, I played the role of Uber Dork and tossed the thing in the pool.  Nice Nice!

The seat's back rest is high and very supportive.  The cockpit is plenty long so I can get all of me in and out easily.  I can wedge my knees against the outer edge for stability.

I flipped it over (with me in it) to see if I could get out.  No problem.

Also noticed that theres a sealed floatation/storage area inthe back.  The front has a foam separator that acts like a floatation zone I guess.

So next opportunity, it's off to the lake up the street.  I was scoping out the kayks we have on the lake in NH.  They are short..10 or 12' I would guess.  Riot "Stealth".  I don't fit in them....way too small of an opening.  One thing I noticed about that Riot kayak is the molded keels (3).  The kids scoot around in them pretty well.  I'll be interested to see how my Heritage (relatively flat bottom) moves in comparrison.


----------



## Sky (Aug 12, 2007)

I finally launched the kayak!  <ark the calendar...13 Aug?  *sheesh*  

Impressive!  Quick and stable.  Good thing it was hot and the lake was warm...cuz with every paddle that water from the airborne paddle runs all over the place.

I brough a couple of rods, but caught nothing.  Opted to stick with "single" hook options, spinner baits and rubber worms....didn't want to be futzing around with trebble hooks on my first time out.

I was on the water for about two hours...very comfy.

Now that I've cracked the code, maybe I'll get out more often.


----------



## Beez (Aug 26, 2007)

I have 2 ocean kayak malibu two's.  They are sit on tops.  Great for beginners, hard to tip.  My husband and I have tried to kayak in the same boat but its a hassle.  We can never get our paddles in sync.  Usually I take one child in my boat and he takes the other in his boat.  I ride it alone alot.  I am sure it would be much easier to operate a singe but I figure I am getting a better work out lugging around the extra weight.


----------



## amf (Aug 27, 2007)

Sky said:


> ... Good thing it was hot and the lake was warm...cuz with every paddle that water from the airborne paddle runs all over the place.



That's why spray skirts (those thingies that cover the cockpit with you inside) were invented... may not be an issue when the air & water are warm, but just wait a month.


----------

