# Storm on the way



## kingslug (Dec 15, 2019)

Looks like tuesday into wednesday a good one coming..


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## ss20 (Dec 15, 2019)

...another Southern VT storm.  Could be 6"+ for Mount Snow, Stratton, Magic.  

Very healthy looking upslope on the radar/webcams today for everyone.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 15, 2019)

&#55357;&#56397;
Yes this week should definitely deliver big.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 15, 2019)

Looks like it will miss the North again.


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## Smellytele (Dec 15, 2019)

ss20 said:


> ...another Southern VT storm.  Could be 6"+ for Mount Snow, Stratton, Magic.
> 
> Very healthy looking upslope on the radar/webcams today for everyone.



With what just happened I don't know if 6" is enough for me to hit up Magic and not a fan of the other 2. Bromley might be good that day though


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## kingslug (Dec 15, 2019)

Hunter looks good
Have to wastch the report tomorrow


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## abc (Dec 15, 2019)

MEtoVTSkier said:


> Looks like it will miss the North again.


How far north?

Planning to head “north” starting Saturday...


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## kingslug (Dec 15, 2019)

Stowe report shows 1 to 3...
Not driving 5 hours for that


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## abc (Dec 15, 2019)

In that light, yes.


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## Greg (Dec 15, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Very healthy looking upslope on the radar/webcams today for everyone.



Fingers crossed on consistent upslope love this week. Might be surprised by next weekend.


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## ss20 (Dec 15, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Stowe report shows 1 to 3...
> Not driving 5 hours for that



This wasn't the "storm"...that'd be upslope from today.  Probably another 3"-8" by the weekend.  "Storm" on Tuesday then a good chance for a lot of upslope from the cold front coming in Wednesday.  

This is one of those setups where Jay Peak could quietly get double-digit snow totals by the weekend.


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## kingslug (Dec 16, 2019)

Hope so. Stowe's trail count has stalled but they have gotten a few inches. Its why I have been staying low so far.


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## kingslug (Dec 16, 2019)

Forecast for the Cats getting better...bringing the 105's..


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## Bandit2941 (Dec 16, 2019)

Belleayre looking good for tomorrow. I’ll be there for first chair if anyone wants to link up 8)


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## Glenn (Dec 16, 2019)

This should help a bit with what fell from the sky last Friday into Saturday.


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## kendo (Dec 16, 2019)

Skied Stowe today.  Was good early then wind swept.  Ok for the very few here.   Would be pretty sketchy if there were crowds.  Weds looks promising.  

No idea why they're not blowing snow on Nosedive and other expert favs.  Main Street was getting some today.  Whales on yet to open Gondolier.


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## tnt1234 (Dec 16, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> With what just happened I don't know if 6" is enough for me to hit up Magic and not a fan of the other 2. Bromley might be good that day though



Very fun mountain after a storm if that side lift is spinning - the Blue Bonnet, I think it's called?


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## tnt1234 (Dec 16, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Hunter looks good
> Have to wastch the report tomorrow



Seems like a smart play with the snow making base they have down.


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## kingslug (Dec 17, 2019)

Oh..the drive up is most unfun..ice..only seen 1 good crash so far..2 cars ate the divider...hope this is worth it. 
About 3 inches on the ground..not reslly snowing much now..more like gropple


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## skimagic (Dec 17, 2019)

Afternoon reports, Mount Snow  says 4" and is expecting 2" more.  Windham reports 3-5 so far.


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## kingslug (Dec 17, 2019)

Hunter had about 4 but we dealt with freezing mist all day..called it at 1 when i looked like a popsicle..good base building snow..the north side was best..less freezing schnozzle to deal with for whatever reason


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## Smellytele (Dec 17, 2019)

Did a skin run at Pats around 2. Only had about 2" at that point but it was coming down. They were also blowing on a few trails including Hurricane and Vortex. Got home (I live in Henniker) and it has snow 2 more inches since and still lightly snowing. Will head out and get a run in before work tomorrow with the dog and it should be good.


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## tnt1234 (Dec 17, 2019)

Wonder how this bodes for the weekend in the cats.  Thinking about rallying the family for a day up there.


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## ss20 (Dec 17, 2019)

5" at Killington by closing.  Expecting an inch or two more tonight and then 2-3" tomorrow.  Could be a sleeper weekend with decent snow conditions across the Green Mountain spine.


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## kingslug (Dec 17, 2019)

Cats shoukd be good..firm but a good base..killington will be..better


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## kendo (Dec 17, 2019)

Tomorrow should be very good at Stowe.  Snowed lightly but continuously all day since 9am.  Still coming down.  Expect 3 to 5+" by tomorrow am.


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## JimG. (Dec 17, 2019)

ss20 said:


> 5" at Killington by closing.  Expecting an inch or two more tonight and then 2-3" tomorrow.  Could be a sleeper weekend with decent snow conditions across the Green Mountain spine.



K skied very well today. Snow got better and better as day went on. Highline was my ROTD.


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## Los (Dec 18, 2019)

Crotched was awesome last night (never thought I’d say that). They must have gotten 6 inches or so by the time we left at 9.


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## Los (Dec 18, 2019)

Crotched was awesome last night (never thought I’d say that). They must have gotten 6 inches or so by the time we left at 9.


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## Smellytele (Dec 18, 2019)

So awesome you had to say it twice! [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Quietman (Dec 18, 2019)

Los said:


> Crotched was awesome last night (never thought I’d say that). They must have gotten 6 inches or so by the time we left at 9.



I'll say it a 3rd time!  It was fun skiing the whales with the fresh powder.


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## Tdizz (Dec 18, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Oh..the drive up is most unfun..ice..only seen 1 good crash so far..2 cars ate the divider...hope this is worth it.
> About 3 inches on the ground..not reslly snowing much now..more like gropple



Where did you see that crash? I passed a pretty bad one on the way down from Hunter. It was on 32, not far from the 32A Y. It must have just happened like a minute before I went by. SUV off into the woods. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it. I didn't stop because there was already someone stopped.


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## kingslug (Dec 18, 2019)

This was on 84. Also saw a car spun into the grass/snowpile on 32 not far from Hunter. 
The only scary road is the Hains Falls pass. Snowtires and AWD work wonders.


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## Los (Dec 18, 2019)

Quietman said:


> I'll say it a 3rd time!  It was fun skiing the whales with the fresh powder.



My favorite were the micro-bumps on Satellite Summit & Cosmic Blast. Fun, fun, fun 

I was very surprised how empty it was... Not that I'm complaining about it. 

Also very surprised at how ridiculously slow NH drivers go with the slightest bit of snow on the road. It's embarrassing - you'd think we live in Florida or something and have never encountered snow before.


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## crank (Dec 18, 2019)

As far as I'm concerned slow is safer and therefore better than a bunch of  yahoos speeding in the snow.  The key to not getting in an accident and not having to stop and possible get stuck is to leave lots of room in front of you.


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## kingslug (Dec 18, 2019)

One day I should video the drivers in CT...mind blowing..worst I have ever experienced..probably due to no pints on your license..and no cops around. The minute you hit NY or VT things change quick.


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## ss20 (Dec 18, 2019)

kingslug said:


> One day I should video the drivers in CT...mind blowing..worst I have ever experienced..probably due to no pints on your license..and no cops around. The minute you hit NY or VT things change quick.



Not too sure what you're getting at, but yeah, CT drivers can't do snow.  It's crazy the difference in the snow ability of drivers between VT and CT.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Not too sure what you're getting at, but yeah, CT drivers can't do snow.  It's crazy the difference in the snow ability of drivers between VT and CT.


well, considering that someone who lives in CT might drive in snow maybe 20% as often as a VT resident and VT drivers typically use snow tires, it's not all that crazy.  Virtually all of my friends in Northern VT have snow tires; many just leave them on year round.  Snow tires alone improve a cars performance in snow by about 30%

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Los (Dec 18, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> well, considering that someone who lives in CT might drive in snow maybe 20% as often as a VT resident and VT drivers typically use snow tires, it's not all that crazy.  Virtually all of my friends in Northern VT have snow tires; many just leave them on year round.  Snow tires alone improve a cars performance in snow by about 30%
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



I'll take your word for it on the 30% as a scientific matter. But as far as I'm concerned, winter tires improve performance on snow by 100%! The difference is absolutely remarkable. We always got by, not wanting (or able) to make the investment - but we finally purchased a set for each of our vehicles a few years ago and wow - it's like night and day.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2019)

My enthusiasm for snow tires align with yours.  It's night and day, but yeah from what I've read they improve stopping, acceleration and tracking in corners by about 30%.  Scientific

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## tnt1234 (Dec 18, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> My enthusiasm for snow tires align with yours.  It's night and day, but yeah from what I've read they improve stopping, acceleration and tracking in corners by about 30%.  Scientific
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



friend has a house in stowe.  Puts snow tires on the minivan and never gets stuck.  Never owned a 4wd in his life and never had a problem up there.  Seems impossible...


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## 2Planker (Dec 19, 2019)

Nothing beats an Audi Quattro w/ Nokians


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2019)

Actually I've had some pretty good snow events since I moved to CT. Last November when that surprise storm blew in we had snow tires already on. Everyone else..not so much. Biggest mess I ever saw. Took hours to go 8 miles, accidents everywhere. 
As far as CT drivers in general..very poor. Never signal, pass on the right, speed up to not let you in..just poor driving.


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## drjeff (Dec 19, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Actually I've had some pretty good snow events since I moved to CT. Last November when that surprise storm blew in we had snow tires already on. Everyone else..not so much. Biggest mess I ever saw. Took hours to go 8 miles, accidents everywhere.
> As far as CT drivers in general..very poor. Never signal, pass on the right, speed up to not let you in..just poor driving.



I would make the argument that numerous policies that the folks in Hartford choose to keep implementing help "attract" a fair amount of "low hanging fruit" to our mutual home state, and with that in some form, we see some of what we get on our (poorly maintained) roadways.

As for the speeding up to pass on the right thing.  On my way home from work, I have a section of a state highway (Route 6) where it goes from 2 lanes down to 1(right lane having to merge left) and then about 1/4 mile later you get a right turn only lane for a Walmart Supercenter....  The number of times I have been passed on the right going into the the merge left, just to see that vehicle then head into Walmart is huge! Literally over a 1/3rd of my trips home from work! Many CT drivers leave plenty to be desired!! :angry:


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## ss20 (Dec 19, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> friend has a house in stowe.  Puts snow tires on the minivan and never gets stuck.  Never owned a 4wd in his life and never had a problem up there.  Seems impossible...



AWD/4WD is good for parking lots, driveways, and intersections.  Unless you're trying to get through 6"+ of snow (unlikely if you're staying on the main roads trying to go skiing) snow tires is all you need, imo.


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## abc (Dec 19, 2019)

I guess there’s not much from this “storm” to talk about except bitching about the driving habits of others...?


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 19, 2019)

eh, pretty garden variety and much needed refresher. videos out of jay and smuggs this week look good. catskills seemed to have slightly rebounded but caught some icing. overall a good thing but not a blockbuster. 

today is the only day i could have conceivably played hooky for a day trip to cats or soVT. i'm glad i didnt. it's really really cold today, and i have some good music on tap tonight in the city.

tomorrow is such a nonsense day of work. then we have my girlfriends bday dinner tomorrow, our friends xmas party saturday, my family hanukah dinner sunday, and then we leave for colorado super early monday morning (early enough to bag a few laps monday afternoon). ski thru 12/30. home night of 12/30. 2.5 days to relax hard before going back to work. 

haven't had a real break since july 4 week. so stoked to disconnect and ski and be with gf, friends, family.


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## crank (Dec 19, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Actually I've had some pretty good snow events since I moved to CT. Last November when that surprise storm blew in we had snow tires already on. Everyone else..not so much. Biggest mess I ever saw. Took hours to go 8 miles, accidents everywhere.
> As far as CT drivers in general..very poor. Never signal, pass on the right, speed up to not let you in..just poor driving.



That was probably my ex.

First snow of the season is always worse.  No material on the roads yet.  

I am not sure if the drivers are worse here, CT, or it's just that there are more of us.  I am actually in NY now but lived in southwestern CT for a loooong time.


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## 1dog (Dec 19, 2019)

Good snows w a Saab 900 has never let me down on the ( mostly) dirt road of Roxbury Gap Road.

If anything, its the driver more than the 4X or front or great tires - outside of studded Nokia's, some peope don't have a clue about ice, especially black ice. A 12 wheel drive isn't going to help. 


My 9 year old and I tried to help  out a brand new Jeep in a ditch just below the pass on Rox side Sunday around 5:30 - the girls just assumed 4WD would keep them on the road. Ultimately after smelling transmission burn and tire smoke I told her to call AAA.

SUV's help in 6+" as the Saab is low - but momentum and downshifting heading down hill are all skills seemingly lost on many.


Friday night after the Exit 9 stop in Warner NH - road turned to ice - 20MPH and cars flipped over - at least 3 - and an 18 wheeler in front of us w the trailer sliding sideways into the right lane - going 20. It was not pretty. By Exit 16 they had re salted/sanded. Rest of way was 50-60 w no issues.

no replacement for experience in snow and ice. 

at least with high snowbanks it can be like bowling with bumpers in gutters.


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## p_levert (Dec 19, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Snow tires alone improve a cars performance in snow by about 30%
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



You got a link on this 30% number?

I would also like to caution that there is a significant difference between snow performance and ice performance.  I run Michelin Xice.  They have the right idea, worry about ice because that's what is most likely to put you in the ditch.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 19, 2019)

Driving home from Stowe Sunday night, there was a long backup on 100 heading back to 89 (Google map said accident). I turned around before passing it and Google rerouted me to some fairly winding and hilly side roads, all of which were very slippery. I made it through easily (AWD + snows + good driver[emoji846]) but I passed 2 or 3 cars on the climbs with blinkers on and slowly reversing down the hill. And ironically those cars all had green plates[emoji848]  I certainly didn't wish any ill on those drivers, but I couldn't help thinking about forum posts dumping on "flatlander" drivers.


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## Glenn (Dec 19, 2019)

Both of our vehicles are AWD and have snows mounted during the cooler months. The stopping and steering abilities with snows vs all seasons is significant.


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 19, 2019)

2Planker said:


> Nothing beats an Audi Quattro w/ Nokians



4wd SUV with fully lockable diffs and Nokians!

But as a new Audi driver I'll agree Quattro is pretty sweet. My old WRX was more fun, in an irresponsible way, but  I'm really impressed with how a modern AWD system (with good snows) makes easy work of slippery driving.


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2019)

Thousands of years ago my favorite winter car was my 1972 Caddy Eldorado. 500 cube motor front wheel drive. I used to put those big snow tires on and blow down the road past everyone else ..who was stuck with rear wheel drive and bias ply tires or whatever they had. Never got stuck in that thing.


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## crank (Dec 19, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Thousands of years ago my favorite winter car was my 1972 Caddy Eldorado. 500 cube motor front wheel drive. I used to put those big snow tires on and blow down the road past everyone else ..who was stuck with rear wheel drive and bias ply tires or whatever they had. Never got stuck in that thing.




lol.  26 years ago I stopped off  from a business trip to LA in Denver for a long weekend of skiing, meeting some friends who had a condo rented in Silverthorne.  I had a mid sized car reserved at the old DIA airport.  Avis tried to up sell me to a SUV.  It's snowing, they said.  It was indeed!  You'll get stuck. You won't get through the pass they said.  I resisted and ended up with a big old Caddy because there were no midsized cars left.  That baby just plowed through the snow like nobody's business.  We drove it to A basin and to Vail - just threw 3 or 4 pairs of skis in the trunk and cruised no problem.

One buddy even borrowed it to take his girl out for dinner.

Great ride!


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2019)

Too bad mine got 6 MPG...8 downhill


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## WWF-VT (Dec 19, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Driving home from Stowe Sunday night, there was a long backup on 100 heading back to 89 (Google map said accident). I turned around before passing it and Google rerouted me to some fairly winding and hilly side roads, all of which were very slippery. I made it through easily (AWD + snows + good driver[emoji846]) but I passed 2 or 3 cars on the climbs with blinkers on and slowly reversing down the hill. And ironically those cars all had green plates[emoji848]  I certainly didn't wish any ill on those drivers, but I couldn't help thinking about forum posts dumping on "flatlander" drivers.



FWIW - it took my son close to 5 hours to go from Stowe to Burlington on Sunday night.  Over 20 cars off the road on 89 after Exit 11 in Richmond


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## deadheadskier (Dec 19, 2019)

p_levert said:


> You got a link on this 30% number?
> 
> I would also like to caution that there is a significant difference between snow performance and ice performance.  I run Michelin Xice.  They have the right idea, worry about ice because that's what is most likely to put you in the ditch.


Some car magazine article I read in a shop a month or so ago.  They were comparing several models of snow tires vs all seasons on a couple different vehicles.  The overall data averaged out to about 30% improvement on various tests for snows vs all seasons over a few different car models

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## p_levert (Dec 19, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Some car magazine article I read in a shop a month or so ago.  They were comparing several models of snow tires vs all seasons on a couple different vehicles.  The overall data averaged out to about 30% improvement on various tests for snows vs all seasons over a few different car models
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Maybe this? https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a3111/can-all-season-tires-really-handle-the-snow/

This article seem ridiculous, only 5-20% performance gain.

Actually, this Tire Rack video seems right on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

Pretty significant difference seen in stopping and cornering on ice (only conditioni tested).


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## abc (Dec 19, 2019)

p_levert said:


> Pretty significant difference seen in stopping and cornering on ice (only conditioni tested).


That's the point!

"Overall" performance may be better "slightly". But it's on the marginal situation snow tires performance edge comes in handy. In fact, that's the ONLY time you really need it.

If the car with snow tire stops 5 feet shorter, and there's a tree 4 and 1/2 feet away. The "performance difference" is 100%


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 19, 2019)

crank said:


> One buddy even borrowed it to take his girl out for dinner.
> 
> Great ride!



The Caddy?


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## Cornhead (Dec 19, 2019)

Ah memories, 70 Chevelle, no snows, empty snowy parking lots...weeeeeeee. I didn't ski back then. That's about the most fun I had on snow at the time. I've got a WRX with Blizzaks, the only thing stopping me is ground clearance. I don't know if id've made it to Belleayre during Stella. My buddy's full size GMC 4x4 with studded snows did. Even then, he was afraid to park in empty spots between cars in Belle's lot. He parked at the end of the line where it was a little less deep. I would've been an AWD snowplow. Maybe I should lift it and put taller narrower tires on it. I could go off road with it in the off season.

I don't know if there is much difference between fwd with snows, and awd with them. I had a 99 Contour SVT that my son ended up with for his first car, pretty sweet first car, anyway he put Blizzaks on it. I drove it home from Greek during a storm. I took a two lane road instead of the highway. I slammed on the brakes doing 50, the car stopped straight, abs. I thought to myself, well, if he gets in trouble in the snow, it will probably be someonelse's fault. He said he couldn't even get the ass end to slide out, bummer.[emoji16]

I did drive my mom's 2017 Accord, with newish all season radials up over some hills during a squall recently, the difference between it and my Subaru with snows was quite evident, I wasn't all over the road, but I sure wasn't as planted. Now if it had Blizzaks on it, I'm sure it'd be a different story.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using AlpineZone mobile app


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## kingslug (Dec 19, 2019)

If you could just raise that WRX a few inches it would be the ultimate snow sports car. I want one. STI...


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## JimG. (Dec 19, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> Driving home from Stowe Sunday night, there was a long backup on 100 heading back to 89 (Google map said accident). I turned around before passing it and Google rerouted me to some fairly winding and hilly side roads, all of which were very slippery. I made it through easily (AWD + snows + good driver[emoji846]) but I passed 2 or 3 cars on the climbs with blinkers on and slowly reversing down the hill. And ironically those cars all had green plates[emoji848]  I certainly didn't wish any ill on those drivers, but I couldn't help thinking about forum posts dumping on "flatlander" drivers.



Drove home from K yesterday. Hit a few strong snow squalls but generally speaking the roads were clear and dry.

So I was pretty shocked to find myself behind several green plates who seemed terrified of the conditions. Like 20 MPH in a 50 terrified. I also noticed that when I attempted to pass these people they would speed up and attempt to thwart my passing efforts. That's very flatland behavior...how dare someone try to pass me!

So when I see posts dumping on flatlander drivers I just have to laugh.


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## fbrissette (Dec 19, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Some car magazine article I read in a shop a month or so ago.  They were comparing several models of snow tires vs all seasons on a couple different vehicles.  The overall data averaged out to about 30% improvement on various tests for snows vs all seasons over a few different car models
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



This is highly temperature dependent.  At -20C and below, all season tires basically have little to no stopping power.  Differences would be much much larger than 30%.    30% I believe when you are close to the freezing point.


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## mister moose (Dec 19, 2019)

abc said:


> > _Pretty significant difference seen in stopping and cornering on ice (only condition i tested)._​
> 
> 
> That's the point!
> ...



I think temperature is a significant factor.  The colder it gets, the harder and slicker the all seasons rubber compound gets.  Also all seasons on sporty SUVs and Quatros these days come with low profile summer rims for good handling.  Horrible for snow, even with snow tires.  You really need to downsize the rim 2 inches and get a narrower, higher profile tire for your snow tires.  Makes changing them easier too.  And then there's driver skill.  That has to be 50% right there.

Times when snow tires are more than marginally better:
Going uphill on unplowed local roads.
Changing lanes from the cow herd lane to the unplowed lane to pass.
Starting at an uphill stop sign.
Braking
Wet snow that clogs the treads full on all seasons.
Cornering on a road with a high crown


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## Smellytele (Dec 19, 2019)

JimG. said:


> So when I see posts dumping on flatlander drivers I just have to laugh.



It is the flatlanders that fly by and then you see them off the road. Locals drive at a reasonable speed for the conditions.


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## JimG. (Dec 19, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> It is the flatlanders that fly by and then you see them off the road. Locals drive at a reasonable speed for the conditions.



Uh, 20 mph in a 50 mph speed zone is reasonable? Then speeding up when someone wants to pass is reasonable?

Sorry, that's just plain crappy driving!


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## crank (Dec 19, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> The Caddy?



yep.


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## 1dog (Dec 19, 2019)

mister moose said:


> I think temperature is a significant factor.  The colder it gets, the harder and slicker the all seasons rubber compound gets.[/U][/U]  Also all seasons on sporty SUVs and Quatros these days come with low profile summer rims for good handling.  Horrible for snow, even with snow tires.  You really need to downsize the rim 2 inches and get a narrower, higher profile tire for your snow tires.  Makes changing them easier too.  And then there's driver skill.  That has to be 50% right there.
> 
> Times when snow tires are more than marginally better:
> Going uphill on unplowed local roads.
> ...



Thats why Blizzaks have the softer rubber - it does work, have had three or four sets - but they don't last the 3 or 4 seasons I need them too - and the last part they are worn so as not to have as much of the soft rubber grip.

Nokia has lasted the longest, got something else now - maybe Yokohama's I lost count. 

Driving experience makes a difference.  Now if people would just stop texting . . .


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## deadheadskier (Dec 19, 2019)

There's lots of factors.  The 30% number I threw out there was just a generalization I read in the article.  

Type of vehicle matters too

I have expensive run flat Blizzaks on my AWD work van.  I have a more budget friendly Dunlop winter tire on my VW Golf Alltrack.  The VW smokes the van in the snow.   

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 19, 2019)

mister moose said:


> I think temperature is a significant factor.  The colder it gets, the harder and slicker the all seasons rubber compound gets.  Also all seasons on sporty SUVs and Quatros these days come with low profile summer rims for good handling.  Horrible for snow, even with snow tires.  You really need to downsize the rim 2 inches and get a narrower, higher profile tire for your snow tires.  Makes changing them easier too.  And then there's driver skill.  That has to be 50% right there.
> 
> Times when snow tires are more than marginally better:
> Going uphill on unplowed local roads.
> ...



The cowherd lane is definitely a New England thing.   In New Jersey and downstate New York, they plow the entire road.  Doesnt matter if it's a 3 inch storm or a 33 inch storm.

As for the wheels, I intentionally have heavy steel wheels for my snow tires.  Probably doesnt make too much difference, but physics and all, I figure the more weight on those 4 points, the better.


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## 2Planker (Dec 20, 2019)

1dog said:


> *Nokia* has lasted the longest, got something else now - maybe Yokohama's I lost count.



Nokia makes cell phones.
Nokian is the tire manufacturer
Both are from Finland


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## AbominableSnowman (Dec 20, 2019)

JimG. said:


> Drove home from K yesterday. Hit a few strong snow squalls but generally speaking the roads were clear and dry.
> 
> So I was pretty shocked to find myself behind several green plates who seemed terrified of the conditions. Like 20 MPH in a 50 terrified. I also noticed that when I attempted to pass these people *they would speed up and attempt to thwart my passing efforts. *That's very flatland behavior...how dare someone try to pass me!
> 
> So when I see posts dumping on flatlander drivers I just have to laugh.



Feeling a bit less alone after reading that comment above with "...attempt to thwart my passing efforts."  I've had encountered that multiple times, even though I've always driven respectfully (haven't tailgated the driver ahead, waited a seemingly-appropriate amount of time to see if they would speed up a bit, allowed enough room to pass safely, and allowed plenty of room when passing so as not to hit them with trailing snow/spray as I transitioned back into their lane).   I've never heard anyone else mention it before, though, so I was thinking perhaps it didn't happen often to others....

Now, about all those drivers (from many, many different states) that drive without their headlights on in rain and snow storms, that has me very puzzled....it must be due to ignorance, right?


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## Smellytele (Dec 20, 2019)

AbominableSnowman said:


> Feeling a bit less alone after reading that comment above with "...attempt to thwart my passing efforts."  I've had encountered that multiple times, even though I've always driven respectfully (haven't tailgated the driver ahead, waited a seemingly-appropriate amount of time to see if they would speed up a bit, allowed enough room to pass safely, and allowed plenty of room when passing so as not to hit them with trailing snow/spray as I transitioned back into their lane).   I've never heard anyone else mention it before, though, so I was thinking perhaps it didn't happen often to others....
> 
> Now, about all those drivers (from many, many different states) that drive without their headlights on in rain and snow storms, that has me very puzzled....it must be due to ignorance, right?



New Hampshire didn’t have the law to drive with your headlights on in rain until a few years ago. In rain do they really do anything. If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving. 


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> New Hampshire didn’t have the law to drive with your headlights on in rain until a few years ago. In rain do they really do anything. If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I simply see it as good practice when visibility is compromised by rain / snow / fog. One of the layers of protection.


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## 2Planker (Dec 20, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> New Hampshire didn’t have the law to drive with your headlights on in rain until a few years ago. In rain do they really do anything. If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



It is not because it does anything for you...
It's to make you more visible to everyone else.
Much like the idea of Daytime Running Lights, which are pretty much standard equipment now on most vehicles.


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## abc (Dec 20, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.


You always see someone, eventually.  (perhaps right before you hit them) It's just a matter of from how far away you see them before you're on top of them. 

In that regard, light on is ALWAYS better. You can see the light BEFORE you see the car, raining or not. 

Yes, it's to help others to see you. Wouldn't you want to be MORE visible, just to maximize THEIR chance of not hitting you? I would. Call it self-preservation. 

So yes, good practice. (before most states REQUIRE "Wiper on, light on", we were taught to do so as a good practice)


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## kingslug (Dec 20, 2019)

Guess he should have had snowtires


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## Cornhead (Dec 20, 2019)

AbominableSnowman said:


> Now, about all those drivers (from many, many different states) that drive without their headlights on in rain and snow storms, that has me very puzzled....it must be due to ignorance, right?


Worse yet, people who don't clear snow off their cars. I got hit in the windshield by a slab of frozen slush off a van's roof on 89 on my way to Stowe. I was amazed it didn't smash my windshield.


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## Cornhead (Dec 20, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Guess he should have had snowtires


What a dick, um I mean Weiner.

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## asnowmobiler (Dec 21, 2019)

He was Hot Doggen it right before he bun off the road.


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## kingslug (Dec 21, 2019)

Oh.........snap


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## Cornhead (Dec 24, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Oh.........snap


Oscar Mayer wieners are skinless, so no snap.

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## Smellytele (Dec 24, 2019)

Can we stop posting in this - as there is no Storm on the way?


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## Cornhead (Dec 24, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> Can we stop posting in this - as there is no Storm on the way?


There better be, what was that year it didn't snow? 2012? Got in the trees at Jay in the Spring, that was it.

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## abc (Dec 24, 2019)

There’s a storm coming alright. Just not sure it won’t be a rain storm.


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## JimG. (Dec 24, 2019)

Of course it's going to rain. 

It's the holiday week!


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## kingslug (Dec 25, 2019)




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## ss20 (Dec 25, 2019)

Not so fast.  Overnight Euro and Canadian models both showing hope for this storm in kinda a weird gradient.  The low over the Great Lakes switches over to over the Atlantic and a high in Canada keeps cold air in place.  Under this solution, Maine is good, northern NH good, and extreme northeast VT good.  This modeled solution is definitely still an outlier, given the GFS, CMC, and Euro had all shown a rain/torch event for a good couple days now.  

After 12z today we'll see it the models pick up on this again.


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## kingslug (Dec 25, 2019)

Hope so..


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## JimG. (Dec 25, 2019)

My advice...ski tomorrow.


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## abc (Dec 25, 2019)

JimG. said:


> My advice...ski tomorrow.


For those who don’t have to work tomorrow, it maybe worth making some turns. 

It’s hard to tell how the weekend’s storm will pan out. A bird in hand is better.


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## kingslug (Dec 26, 2019)

Think ill hit hunter tomorrow..then we are supposed to go to Stowe..no idea whats going to fall up there


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## SnowRock (Dec 26, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Think ill hit hunter tomorrow..the were supposed to go to Stowe..no idea whats going to fall up there



We are driving up tomorrow.  I’m hoping for a bit of upslope after the rain tomorrow and to at least get some laps Saturday Sunday. The trend for the Sunday Monday storm looks interesting... Suggest everyone makes all their Ullr offerings to keep it trending the right way.


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## kingslug (Dec 26, 2019)

Except for Friday its looking OK up North.


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## Smellytele (Dec 26, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Except for Friday its looking OK up North.



Which North are you looking at?
Here is the forecast for Smuggs for example:
[FONT=&quot]Friday​Rain, mainly before 11am, then a chance of showers after 1pm. High near 43. Breezy, with a south wind 20 to 23 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New precipitation amounts between a tenth and quarter of an inch possible.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Friday Night​A chance of drizzle before 2am, then a chance of drizzle or freezing drizzle between 2am and 3am, then a slight chance of freezing drizzle after 3am. Cloudy, with a low around 31. Breezy, with a west wind around 22 mph.
[/FONT]


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## deadheadskier (Dec 26, 2019)

Maybe places get lucky at elevation.  All along 89 today from White River to Montpelier there were signs warning of freezing rain tonight.  89 is obviously significantly lower in elevation.  

Hope for the best, but not looking good.  Seems like niar and limited snowfall happens 8/10 years over the holiday week in the East.

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## abc (Dec 26, 2019)

Smellytele said:


> Which North are you looking at?
> Here is the forecast for Smuggs for example:
> Friday​Rain, mainly before 11am, then a chance of showers after 1pm. High near 43. Breezy, with a south wind 20 to 23 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New precipitation amounts between a tenth and quarter of an inch possible.
> 
> Friday Night​A chance of drizzle before 2am, then a chance of drizzle or freezing drizzle between 2am and 3am, then a slight chance of freezing drizzle after 3am. Cloudy, with a low around 31. Breezy, with a west wind around 22 mph.


He did say “EXCEPT FRIDAY”...


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## SnowRock (Dec 26, 2019)

It’s still early but Sunday to Tuesday could be interesting for northern VT. Probably some mixed P but should be a net gain overall if model trends continue


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## kingslug (Dec 26, 2019)

Some forecasts show snow monday to thursday..who knows..but the weekend looks crappy
The catskills might be better this weekend..the radar will tell all..


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## kingslug (Dec 27, 2019)

At Hunter..cloudy but no schnozzle..


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## tnt1234 (Dec 27, 2019)

Trying to decide on a day trip to Blue tomorrow.  Might prefer to just stay home and go rock climbing or something.


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## Domeskier (Dec 27, 2019)

tnt1234 said:


> Trying to decide on a day trip to Blue tomorrow.  Might prefer to just stay home and go rock climbing or something.



I hear they finally got around to seeding Barney's.  Nice spring-like bumps on tap for tomorrow if they don't mow them down I guess.


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## kingslug (Dec 27, 2019)

Hunter was good..rained a few hours but spring skiing all day..


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## tnt1234 (Dec 28, 2019)

Domeskier said:


> I hear they finally got around to seeding Barney's.  Nice spring-like bumps on tap for tomorrow if they don't mow them down I guess.



We bailed.  Too much work/stuff to get done before trip.

Must be a nice day there though.


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## kingslug (Dec 29, 2019)

Reports for n vt still holding up..storm..on the way..


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## SnowRock (Dec 29, 2019)

kingslug said:


> Reports for n vt still holding up..storm..on the way..



Looking like some sloppy base building type stuff for first part then some lighter snow and come New Year’s Day favorable signs for good terrain enhanced snows


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## NYDB (Dec 29, 2019)

calling for a lot of ice down in the southern greensfrom the first half.  Hopefully the backside delivers


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## kingslug (Dec 29, 2019)

Roads should be fun..heading up now to beat all that shit...


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## JimG. (Dec 29, 2019)

Awesome!

I'll head up to K on Thurs and ski Thurs-Fri.


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## abc (Dec 29, 2019)

Even the northern NH is expecting a little bit of ice. And snow totals are all over the map. 

Couple with high lodging cost, I’m leaning toward bailing.


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## Smellytele (Dec 29, 2019)

abc said:


> Even the northern NH is expecting a little bit of ice. And snow totals are all over the map.
> 
> Couple with high lodging cost, I’m leaning toward bailing.



Cannon showing all snow at this point - no ice via noaa 


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## JimG. (Dec 29, 2019)

abc said:


> Couple with high lodging cost



Yeah I forgot that resorts like to stretch holiday periods to inflate hotel rates. Looking more likely I'll wait until Monday the 6th to go to K for a few days.


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## abc (Dec 29, 2019)

I took the gamble and am now up here at the AMC Pinkam lodge. One of the lodging that doesn't charge extra for the "holiday period". It's a bit rustic but comfortable. 

The forecast has gotten colder but that's with reduction of snow total. At least the ice is gone from the forecast, at least for up here in northern NH.

Fingers cross for some white stuff. Skiers are by nature optimists.


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## kingslug (Dec 29, 2019)

Im in waitsfield now..the schnozzle has stsrted but is probably snow at higher elevations.


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## SnowRock (Dec 29, 2019)

I ate some dinner and hit the nail for some dead cover band,  but it looks like all snow here at Stowe so far. Coming down at a good clip as well. Way higher rate versus what I have been reading in BTV forecast discussion


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## abc (Dec 30, 2019)

Mountains in the northern vt/nh has been getting a few inches overnight. Expecting more. 

But I also see a band of ice sweeping in from the west. Hope that goes away.


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## kingslug (Dec 30, 2019)

Snowing at the bush...
Well..maybe not really snow now


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## abc (Dec 30, 2019)

Snowing here at Wildcat too!

I will get what you have with a few hours delay. So keep us informed! :grin:


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## crank (Dec 30, 2019)

We are at a friend's house with a view of Sunape. Well, can;t see the hill now everything is socked in. It is a mix here with less than an inch of some frozen substance on the ground...kind of a freezing mist right now.  We are just hanging here for a few days on our way to Quebec for NYE then Ste Anne and Le Massif. With a possible stop to go xc skiing at either Kingdom Trails or north of the border at Mont Orford Tuesday.


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## Edd (Dec 30, 2019)

crank said:


> We are at a friend's house with a view of Sunape. Well, can;t see the hill now everything is socked in. It is a mix here with less than an inch of some frozen substance on the ground...kind of a freezing mist right now.  We are just hanging here for a few days on our way to Quebec for NYE then Ste Anne and Le Massif. With a possible stop to go xc skiing at either Kingdom Trails or north of the border at Mont Orford Tuesday.



Nice! Our group talks often about our trip up there last season. We’re keen to go back soon.


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## NYDB (Dec 30, 2019)

From SoVT's Golden Triangle - freezing rain most of the night and now a very sleety snow mix.  About an inch down at 9am .

Hopefully more accumulations at the mountains


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## 2Planker (Dec 30, 2019)

6' so far, no frz pecip yet...


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## snoseek (Dec 30, 2019)

Anybody at cannon today?

Its snowing pretty good in raymond nh at the moment. Couple inches of dense base building snow...not that rockingham county needs it.


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## Smellytele (Dec 30, 2019)

snoseek said:


> Anybody at cannon today?
> 
> Its snowing pretty good in raymond nh at the moment. Couple inches of dense base building snow...not that rockingham county needs it.



Have a friend there. 4" so far and it has been all snow and is snowing now.


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## snoseek (Dec 30, 2019)

Nice! Hope it stays frozen. Next couple should be fun!


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## abc (Dec 30, 2019)

snoseek said:


> Nice! Hope it stays frozen. Next couple should be fun!


Hoping it stays fluffy.


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## snoseek (Dec 30, 2019)

abc said:


> Hoping it stays fluffy.



I'll take some dense base building stuff as long as it stays dryish


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## Cornhead (Dec 30, 2019)

Sleet makes an excellent base, had a fun day on 5" after freezing rain/ sleet a couple weeks ago. We're keeping our eyes on Magic for New Year's Day, free tickets on the Freedom Pass, so even if it isn't stellar, only out gas money.

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## sledride (Dec 30, 2019)

Also looking at Magic or Black on Freedom pass for the 1st.  We'll see how this storm pans out.


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## abc (Dec 30, 2019)

Morning at Wildcat was more dust-on-crust. But it improved considerably after lunch as more snow had fallen. 

I have high hope tomorrow morning will be quite good given more snow is continue to fall overnight.


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## kingslug (Dec 30, 2019)

Sugarbush got better all day long..top of heavens gate was a blizzard..


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## abc (Dec 31, 2019)

Sadly, there’s no significant increase in trail counts. I’m getting slightly bored lapping the same 5 trails (top to bottom) same as yesterday...

(I think I’ll go cross country skiing in the afternoon)


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## kingslug (Dec 31, 2019)

Some real snow coming down here in Waitsfield..start of a powder day..


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## crank (Dec 31, 2019)

Got about 3-4" of snow on top of 2+ inches of dense mix.  Still coming down lightly.  We are heading north from Sunape and will stop off at Kingdom Trails for xc on the way to Quebec.


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## ALLSKIING (Dec 31, 2019)

Killington area got about 6 inches of sleet and snow which will bond to that ice well.

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## abc (Dec 31, 2019)

abc said:


> Sadly, there’s no significant increase in trail counts. I’m getting slightly bored lapping the same 5 trails (top to bottom) same as yesterday...
> 
> (I think I’ll go cross country skiing in the afternoon)


I have to take back all my negativity! 

Wildcat is GREAT today!!!

Powder everywhere, pepper with some rocks and some slick ice. Freaking fantastic!!!

(not going to xc ski today. that can wait)


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## deadheadskier (Dec 31, 2019)

abc said:


> I’m taking all that negativity back!
> 
> Wildcat is GREAT today!!!
> 
> ...


Glad you're having a better day.   When it's just groomer skiing, Cat can get old in a hurry.  Once the natural terrain opens, it's got everything you need to keep you smiling all day

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## abc (Dec 31, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Glad you're having a better day.   When it's just groomer skiing, Cat can get old in a hurry.  Once the natural terrain opens, it's got everything you need to keep you smiling all day


"Smiling all day" was exactly it!

Many of the natural terrain got barely enough snow coverage to thread one's way down. But all that rock dodging actually adds to the appeal! (minor ski base dings notwithstanding). Got lucky with patrol rope drop right in front of me. So got to surf some good 6" freshie. Bring smile to our face.   

Was contemplating going over to Attitash this morning. Silly me! What was I thinking?  Glad I stuck it out with the Cat!  May consider going over tomorrow though. Or maybe not...


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## kingslug (Dec 31, 2019)

Awesome day at the Bush...snowed all day..


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## kingslug (Jan 1, 2020)

Coming down pretty good at Casa Slug in Stowe..


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## abc (Jan 1, 2020)

Woke up seeing a couple inches of DRY snow on my car! Dash over to Wildcat to play in the hero snow. 

The crowd didn’t show up till later (people streaming in from 11am on... I left a little before 12. By then, the groomer were down to the hardpack beneath, and the ungroomed were a mix of rock and sleek ice. 

Saw a few people coming out of the woods. But I couldn’t quite figure out how to get to the entrance. Maybe next time.

It was a good day (a few hrs of it anyway). Followed with xc skiing after lunch. Good workout.


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## Edd (Jan 1, 2020)

Gunstock claimed 13” over the two days. Conditions were pretty good this morning. The crowds were growing rapidly so the trails took a major beating, I’m sure. 


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## sledride (Jan 1, 2020)

Burke was great today.  Snowed all day too.  Plenty of natural terrain in the mix.


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## parahelia (Jan 1, 2020)

Sunday River did well with the storm, 14-16”.  They went from ~60 trails to over 100.  Cover is a bit thin on the naturals but at least the base is building! Crowds weren’t bad on Tuesday and steadily decreased as the day wore on and people’s legs ran out of gas.


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