# Improvements you'd make?



## legalskier (Jan 29, 2013)

If you could make improvements to an area, what would they be...and why?

Please try to be realistic. I know there's someone here who's probably dreamed of putting a hot tub equipped gondola containing voluptuous bikini clad waitresses serving shots of Akvavit on Plattekill Mountain, but I'd rather we stay cost effective (sorry Scotty ;-)).

I'll go first- at Belleayre I'd extend the Superchief quad down the mountain so that it could be accessed by a new trail from Discovery (i.e. lower) Lodge, which would eliminate having to ride two lifts from bottom to top of the mountain. Then, "finish" the Cathedral Brook trail by cutting it down to the new loading point of Superchief. Also, I'd extend the triple chair (lift 7) down below Overlook (upper) Lodge into that huge unused area, which would eliminate trudging up the hill to get to it- people could ski down to it from Overlook, much easier.

Got any ideas for your favorite areas?


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 29, 2013)

I'd increase the number of natural snow skiing trails at.......... well........ pretty much every place I can think of not named Plattekill or Mad River Glen.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 29, 2013)

Gunstock is my home hill.

Commitment to moguls, which as with most low snow southern New England ski areas would have to come via seeding.

Seed half of Red Hat and care for it throughout the year with repeated top coating of snowmaking and reseeding it when conditions get poor.  Also seed skiers right of Smith right under the quad to give beginners some bumps to try and learn on.  The visibility right under the lift would encourage people to try it.  

If a midsize competitor like Sunapee can do it and a tiny little place like Sundown can do it, Gunstock should be able to as well.


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## Puck it (Jan 29, 2013)

New snowmaking equipment at Cannon. It would even take guns from the late '90's.


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## St. Bear (Jan 29, 2013)

Puck it said:


> New snowmaking equipment at Cannon. It would even take guns from the late '90's.


Replanting trees and narrowing trails would rate pretty high on my list for Cannon.


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## legalskier (Jan 29, 2013)

Puck it said:


> New snowmaking equipment at Cannon. It would even take guns from the late '90's.



Belleayre could use the same.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 29, 2013)

Make Liftline at Stowe a (real) double diamond again.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 29, 2013)

Install new lifts at Smuggler's Notch.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 29, 2013)

Increase snowmaking at Plattekill (they are working on this).


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## Smellytele (Jan 29, 2013)

Put back in more surface lifts at the top of mountains again at places like Jay, Sugarloaf and others that see wind holds on a regular basis.


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## Whitey (Jan 29, 2013)

Two obvious ones:  Hi-speed quads for Spear mtn at Ragged and the main double at Saddleback.     

Good news is that I think both are supposed to happen in the near future.  

All areas: The bags/gear piled all over/under/around tables resolved with a commitment/increase to lockers & storage areas in the lodges.   Just too much cr@p piled around the lodges.   Wastes a lot of available space & is a hassle when you go in & try to find a place to sit.


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## ss20 (Jan 29, 2013)

Okemo needs a lot of work, which is why it's my least favorite mountain in VT.  
1. Replace the base lodge (it's wayyyy overcrowded and old anyway) and move it to the top of the 2 base quads.  Re-build the condos at the top of the quads to where the current base lodge is, and make them high-luxury.
2. Base to true summit gondola.
3. Extend Solitude Quad to the "little" summit.
4. More glades on the main mountain.
5. JG to Okemo gondola (have been hearing rumors for this the last 10 years).
6. High-speed 6 to replace the 2 base quads.


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## Scruffy (Jan 29, 2013)

Hunter - Shit or get off the pot with westway (44), you blew snow this year to have it open for, what, 2 weeks; now it just sits there unused, while everyone riding the old quad stares at it drooling. There is still snow on it against the fence that could be skied if you would just blow a little on the entrance and runout. Meanwhile, Aana lays fallow. WTF. If you're not going to commit to the westside, then just plant trees on westway so it holds snow, and open it as glades when there is enough natural snow.

Belleayre - Just do Highmount already.

MRG - Don't change a thing, except do more snow dances, sacrifice a virgin or something already, damn where is the frigin snow. Ditto for Magic.

Stowe - Stop with the Condos already Geez, you're a skiers mountain, act like one.

Jay - WTF is with the big kiddy pool thing, Geez.


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## zyk (Jan 29, 2013)

Scruffy said:


> Hunter. If you're not going to commit to the westside, then just plant trees on westway so it holds snow, and open it as glades when there is enough natural snow.



I'd like to see some tree islands or a line of trees splitting Westway.  

Also,  the base area needs work,  including access to the quad from skier's left for Westway and Annapurna.


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## drjeff (Jan 29, 2013)

Mount Snow:

get to 100% snowmaking (or atleast 99% - maybe keep Challenger _au natural_ ) and also at the same time get the snowmaking water situation done!

High speed bubble quad in sunbrook with the top terminal closer to the summit lodge


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## ss20 (Jan 29, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Mount Snow:
> 
> get to 100% snowmaking (or atleast 99% - maybe keep Challenger _au natural_ ) and also at the same time get the snowmaking water situation done!
> 
> High speed bubble quad in sunbrook with the top terminal closer to the summit lodge



No.  Mt. Snow is the last southern VT resort that doesn't groom and have snowmaking on everything.  This gives it a certain charm.  You want to turn One More Time into Ego Alley?  Olympic into South Bowl?  Although, they could bring the snowmaking up to 90%. 
But unfortunately this will not be the case:  99% snowmaking by the end of the 30 year plan http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/gre..._09/mtsnow_westlake_scopingletter_27dec08.pdf


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## cannonist (Jan 29, 2013)

I would replace the summit double at Big Squaw with A fixed Grip Quad, make some base lodge repairs, and overhaul the snowmaking system... that is if I had the money.


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## drjeff (Jan 29, 2013)

ss20 said:


> No.  Mt. Snow is the last southern VT resort that doesn't groom and have snowmaking on everything.  This gives it a certain charm.  You want to turn One More Time into Ego Alley?  Olympic into South Bowl?  Although, they could bring the snowmaking up to 90%.
> But unfortunately this will not be the case:  99% snowmaking by the end of the 30 year plan http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/gre..._09/mtsnow_westlake_scopingletter_27dec08.pdf



I didn't say that I want more grooming, just more snow!  The way that Mount Snow does there grooming right now I think works quite well.  They basically have 3 categories of trails with respect to grooming. Their "Premium" trails (basically fan gun lined trails) which get groomed daily. Their "Classic" trails which generally have air/water snowmaking and get groomed every couple of days (dedicated bump runs and/or thaw freeze up situations excluded) and what they now call their "Natural" runs which don't have any snowmaking and are rarely groomed.  These "natural" snow trails make up about 25 of their current named trails and cover about 200 of their listed 588 acres of terrain.  As someone who skis Mount Snow about 40 days a year, I'd love to know that I'm going to be able to have more reliable coverage on that roughly 1/4 of terrain.  If once they have snowmaking on them, groomed them like they do their "classic" trails, I think that that would be a great thing.  I'm a realist when it comes to Mount Snow, it's not in a location where you're going to see consistantly 200" of snowfall a year to keep those current natural snow trails covered with enough snow to keep them open for a decent amount of the season.  Do I EVER want to see trails like Uncles, Ledge, Jaws, Overbrook or One More Time groomed flat every day, no way!!  Would I like to see them have the ability to put down 1 to 2 feet of manmade base and then groom them on a limited basis when conditions truly dictate some grooming vs. having to keep a rope up on a trail because of either not enough snow or a bulletproof post thaw freeze up surface that isn't safe to ski on? Yup!

And BTW, if things go to plan based on business and securing the proper permits and financing, the jump to 99% snowmaking is more likely on their 5 year, not 30 year master plan.  The full 30yr time frame for the master plan build out is mainly for the base areas redevelopment non skiing/riding shops and housing work, not the on hill improvements which are supposed to happen early in that 30 year time


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Jan 29, 2013)

ss20 said:


> Okemo needs a lot of work, which is why it's my least favorite mountain in VT.
> 1. Replace the base lodge (it's wayyyy overcrowded and old anyway) and move it to the top of the 2 base quads.  Re-build the condos at the top of the quads to where the current base lodge is, and make them high-luxury.
> 2. Base to true summit gondola.
> 3. Extend Solitude Quad to the "little" summit.
> ...



The thing that annoys me about there is all the damn stairs at the main base area theres like 4 sets of them just to get to the lift , and then if u gotta go to the bathroom right there guess what 2 more flights down more starirs, ugg


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## ScottySkis (Jan 30, 2013)

Road to Plattekill be pavement. My car would also be happy. 

Elk 1000 feet the base I hear is ski able so buy out the people who own that land and have 2000 vertical fun.

NY state let private resorts open more trails already.


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## KevinF (Jan 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Make Liftline at Stowe a (real) double diamond again.



Just curious as to what you'd change on liftline to make it a "real double diamond"?  Last time I saw it (on Monday) it was filled with big icy bumps and thin cover.  Good enough?


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## Conrad (Jan 30, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Put back in more surface lifts at the top of mountains again at places like Jay, Sugarloaf and others that see wind holds on a regular basis.



Right on. I would say my most important improvement would be do put a surface lift at Sugarloaf from the top of Skyline/#3 T-Bar to the summit.


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## gladerider (Jan 30, 2013)

Put security cameras around the racks to prevent equipment theft. I noticed park city had this setup when i was out there this past christmas. I am sure some places already have this but i do not recall any eastern mt with this setup.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

KevinF said:


> Just curious as to what you'd change on liftline to make it a "real double diamond"?  Last time I saw it (on Monday) it was filled with big icy bumps and thin cover.  Good enough?



It used to be half the width as it is now. They graded it and removed pretty much all of the natural obstacles that making skiing liftlines at other resorts so much fun.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Install new lifts at Smuggler's Notch.



They plan to replace the Sterling double within the next couple of years. The problem with replacing Madonna I with a higher capacity lift is that they wouldn't be able to keep all of it's natural terrain open as much. I can't imagine how often Liftline would be open if they put a high speed quad in there.


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## Puck it (Jan 30, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Replanting trees and narrowing trails would rate pretty high on my list for Cannon.




Which ones?  Front Five are fine the way they are for ripping.


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 30, 2013)

Make Tremblant WARMER :-D   get rid of ol sloooow double on the EDGE , rework the nexus of trail junctions at base of the Versant Soleil so it isnt a clusterf....k, and for my local speedbump Titus   Put footrests on the lifts


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## AdironRider (Jan 30, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Which ones?  Front Five are fine the way they are for ripping.



Profile for one, the two groomers (what is is Vista and Tramway?) over on the tram side of things could be narrower as well IMO. 

I think Attitash/Bear could add some terrain without to much issue. 

Open Wittier again.


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## Cheese (Jan 30, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> I think Attitash/Bear could add some terrain without to much issue.



Replace the triple with a HSQ.


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## AdironRider (Jan 30, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Replace the triple with a HSQ.



I think the triple works, maybe a newer fixed grip that runs a tad bit faster.


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## Cheese (Jan 30, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> I think the triple works, maybe a newer fixed grip that runs a tad bit faster.



Maybe I'm just spoiled by HSQ lifts at other resorts and think it's a shame to have terrain like at Attitash that isn't accessible by one.  I don't really find the trails crowded (except maybe Saco corner) so I think they could handle the increased uphill capacity.

I'm all about conserving calories on the way up and burning them on the way down so I'd also wish for a HSQ from the parking lot at Tuckerman's!


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## C-Rex (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd like to see more resorts require park passes.  I know they annoy a lot of people but I like that they keep looky-loo's out and especially idiot parents that bring their kids in there when they can barely ski or ride to begin with.  I can't tell you how many times I've almost mowed over a toddler that decided it would be a good idea to cross the approach or landing of a feature.

I have to disagree about Smuggs.  I like that they have a low uphill capacity.  It keeps the trails uncrowded and adds a certain charm.  I'm not saying a faster ride to the top wouldn't be great but it's a slippery slope when you start adding big, fast lifts.  I wouldn't want to see them become like Mt. Snow.


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## C-Rex (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd also like to see more mountains host lift-serviced mountain biking in the summer.  Not only would it add revenue for the resort but bike trails make really fun, narrow chutes in the winter, and ladder drops are even more fun on snow.  Catamount had a great thing going but they couldn't get the management to invest in it properly.  I loved riding my bikes there, and in the winter some of the bike trails were the best places on the mountain.


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## Cheese (Jan 30, 2013)

Can we replace all the gondolas and trams with HSQs?  Taking equipment on and off is a pain.


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## drjeff (Jan 30, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Can we replace all the gondolas and trams with HSQs? Taking equipment on and off is a pain.




Bubble lifts!  Best of both worlds!  Gear stays on, and you get to get out of the elements from your boot tops on up during the ride!


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## AdironRider (Jan 30, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Maybe I'm just spoiled by HSQ lifts at other resorts and think it's a shame to have terrain like at Attitash that isn't accessible by one.  I don't really find the trails crowded (except maybe Saco corner) so I think they could handle the increased uphill capacity.
> 
> I'm all about conserving calories on the way up and burning them on the way down so I'd also wish for a HSQ from the parking lot at Tuckerman's!



I dont think Attiash proper could handle more than it does already. Midweek would be fine, but holidays would be an absolute junk show. 

Attitash itself has done a pretty good job of keeping trails on the narrower side and more NE feel. High speed quad turns into Bear peak, which makes it one giant hald assed Mt. Snow, and defeats the purpose of their setup IMO.


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## andyzee (Jan 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Increase snowmaking at Plattekill (they are working on this).




Decrease snowmaking at Plattekill. I realize from a business stand point it required, but one of the things that originally drew me to Plattekill was the natural snow and lack of grooming.


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## KevinF (Jan 30, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> It used to be half the width as it is now. They graded it and removed pretty much all of the natural obstacles that making skiing liftlines at other resorts so much fun.



How long ago was Stowe's Liftline half-the-width it is now?  I first went to Stowe in 1994, and I haven't seen a significant trail change since then.

Note, I agree with you that Liftline is usually fairly easy...  But I've always heard this "the front four have changed" mantra, and I've never seen a picture of their original configuration, so it's more a historical question -- how far back do you need to go to have skied them in their "original state"?  I've seen elsewhere that the original seven turns of Nosedive were removed in 1968?, meaning that in my lifetime, that trail has never been skied in its "original" form.  (I was born in 1970).


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## Puck it (Jan 30, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Profile for one, the two groomers (what is is Vista and Tramway?) over on the tram side of things could be narrower as well IMO.



Profile was suppose to be narrow and twisty per designs from what I have been told.  

Tramway is not all that wide.  Vista is not a groomer.  It fills in nicely with nat snow.  And bumps up.  Touching it would be a shame.


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## St. Bear (Jan 30, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Profile was suppose to be narrow and twisty per designs from what I have been told.
> 
> Tramway is not all that wide. Vista is not a groomer. It fills in nicely with nat snow. And bumps up. Touching it would be a shame.



Profile is the first place I'd start.  Maybe some nicely spaced evergreens around some trail junctions, like Lower Cannon.  I haven't been there in a few years, so I don't really have exact locations in mind.

As for the Front Five, I just think they're comically wide at spots.  I know that they run some races on them so it's probably not realistic to make them narrower.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

KevinF said:


> How long ago was Stowe's Liftline half-the-width it is now?  I first went to Stowe in 1994, and I haven't seen a significant trail change since then.
> 
> Note, I agree with you that Liftline is usually fairly easy...  But I've always heard this "the front four have changed" mantra, and I've never seen a picture of their original configuration, so it's more a historical question -- how far back do you need to go to have skied them in their "original state"?  I've seen elsewhere that the original seven turns of Nosedive were removed in 1968?, meaning that in my lifetime, that trail has never been skied in its "original" form.  (I was born in 1970).



I believe a lot of the cosmetic changes to Liftline and trails like Goat were done when the ForeRunner Quad was put in around 1986. There may have been some small changes since then. I'll admit I am not a big Stowe guy so I am sure there is someone out there with better knowledge than me.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 30, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> It used to be half the width as it is now. They graded it and removed pretty much all of the natural obstacles that making skiing liftlines at other resorts so much fun.



Exactly.  

I do not consider Liftline at Stowe a double-diamond.  It's a single black diamond in my book.



MadMadWorld said:


> They plan to replace the Sterling double within the next couple of years.* The problem with replacing Madonna I with a higher capacity lift is that they wouldn't be able to keep all of it's natural terrain open as much. I can't imagine how often Liftline would be open if they put a high speed quad in there.*



So few people ski Liftline at Smuggs that I dont think it would make much difference. 

 As for the _"higher-capacity would lead to crowded trails"_ at Smuggs thing, I've heard this for YEARS now as the reason those lifts are from the Cretaceous Period.  I didnt believe it then, and I dont believe it now.  Frankly, even were that true, we'd only be talking about Saturdays and a few Holidays, as Smuggs is a ski-onto-the-lifts mountain Monday - Friday.  But whatever the capacity issue may be, even on Saturdays, Madonna can certainly handle some additional capacity without ill-effect right now.



andyzee said:


> Decrease snowmaking at Plattekill. I realize from a business stand point it required, but one of the things that originally drew me to Plattekill was the natural snow and lack of grooming.



Great point, and I agree.  I didnt mean become like Hunter and blow snow all over the place.  But I do think increased snowmaking early season to get them going, and then during season to patch things up due to bouts of bad weather (like today) or thaws would help tremendously.  Natural snow is king, but you dont get to enjoy natural snow at all if you cant preserve any base.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 30, 2013)

Puck it said:


> Which ones?  Front Five are fine the way they are for ripping.



While obviously not as experienced with Cannon as you are, I disagree.  I have enjoyed ripping those trails, but a bit of variety would be better in my book.  Maybe a straight shot narrow bump run and couple of other narrow ungroomed twisting runs to go along with a few wide trails would be a lot better than just 5 Super wide trails the Front Five are currently.


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## AdironRider (Jan 30, 2013)

Given that the narrow bump runs are already covered over on the hardscrabbles, I dont think it would add more variety, more like just swap out groomers for more bumps.


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## St. Bear (Jan 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Great point, and I agree. I didnt mean become like Hunter and blow snow all over the place. But I do think increased snowmaking early season to get them going, and then during season to patch things up due to bouts of bad weather (like today) or thaws would help tremendously. Natural snow is king, but you dont get to enjoy natural snow at all if you cant preserve any base.



Having a robust snowmaking system and over grooming do not necessarily go hand in hand.  I've only been to Hunter 5 times or so, but what I've found they do extremely well is blow a solid base, so whatever natural does fall is not needed to open terrain, but rather makes for fun skiing.

For example, I've skied Wildcat a few days after a storm, and their natural trails were large bumps with dirt and grass in the troughs.  Sure it's natural snow and a lack of grooming, but it's not really a quality product.  Now I haven't been there since Peak took over, so maybe that's changed, but that's the best example I can think of off the top of my head.


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## C-Rex (Jan 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> As for the _"higher-capacity would lead to crowded trails"_ at Smuggs thing, I've heard this for YEARS now as the reason those lifts are from the Cretaceous Period. I didnt believe it then, and I dont believe it now. Frankly, even were that true, we'd only be talking about Saturdays and a few Holidays, as Smuggs is a ski-onto-the-lifts mountain Monday - Friday. But whatever the capacity issue may be, even on Saturdays, Madonna can certainly handle some additional capacity without ill-effect right now.




Agreed.  I'm not saying that a HSQ wouldn't be nice.  I just hope that if they do it, they know when to say when.  When a resort adds uphill capacity, they market it strongly, as they should.  But then when they get good business results from that it's like they say, "hey we got some growth from adding capacity before, let's do it again." and they tend to want to go further.  I'd just hate to see it become a Mt. Snow with like 30 people getting dropped at the top every 10 seconds. (I know this is an exaggeration.  No need for anyone Mt. Snow fanboys to get all fired up.)


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## deadheadskier (Jan 30, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Given that the narrow bump runs are already covered over on the hardscrabbles, I dont think it would add more variety, more like just swap out groomers for more bumps.



Too each their own.  I just think having 5 super highway type trails is overkill for 1 terrain pod.  There are slight differences between them, mainly in pitch, but a bit more variety in that pod would've been better IMO.


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## Puck it (Jan 30, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> While obviously not as experienced with Cannon as you are, I disagree. I have enjoyed ripping those trails, but a bit of variety would be better in my book. Maybe a straight shot narrow bump run and couple of other narrow ungroomed twisting runs to go along with a few wide trails would be a lot better than just 5 Super wide trails the Front Five are currently.


 

All of the front five have bumps on the them and groomed sections, so it would not really add much and the tree in between ecah run are glades.


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 30, 2013)

I think Burke needs a HSB6 (High-Speed Bubble Six) in the East Bowl and a Sherburne Base to Summit Tram in the West Bowl.


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## C-Rex (Jan 30, 2013)

The Flyer Express at Jay needs to be a bubble lift.  The wind in your face coming over that rise is brutal.


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 30, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> The Flyer Express at Jay needs to be a bubble lift.  The wind in your face coming over that rise is brutal.



I'm not sure that would work so well. it would kind of turn the chairs into sails...


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## wa-loaf (Jan 30, 2013)

ss20 said:


> No.  Mt. Snow is the last southern VT resort that doesn't groom and have snowmaking on everything.



There's this place called Magic in S VT ....


Sugarloaf to finish out Bracket Basin and put in a T-bar up Burnt Mtn (no trails ...).


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## deadheadskier (Jan 30, 2013)

Puck it said:


> All of the front five have bumps on the them and groomed sections, so it would not really add much and the tree in between ecah run are glades.



What I'm suggesting is having a trail like Misery Whip thrown in there.  Hell, you could have put 3 Misery Whips in between the Zoomer Lift line and Paulie's.  You also could have put in 2 narrower trails in between the lift and Gary's instead of the super wide Rocket.  

In general, I just don't particularly care for super wide trails.  That Pod consists of 5 Super Wide trails and some decent trees in between.  It could be a lot better (for my tastes).


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 30, 2013)

More woods everywhere. Steep narrow trails. Less grooming. Less ropes.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> What I'm suggesting is having a trail like Misery Whip thrown in there.  Hell, you could have put 3 Misery Whips in between the Zoomer Lift line and Paulie's.  You also could have put in 2 narrower trails in between the lift and Gary's instead of the super wide Rocket.
> 
> In general, I just don't particularly care for super wide trails.  That Pod consists of 5 Super Wide trails and some decent trees in between.  It could be a lot better (for my tastes).



I completely agree. That pod would be a great trail pod if it had a LOT more diversity.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I do not consider Liftline at Stowe a double-diamond.  It's a single black diamond in my book.
> 
> ...



Yes, Liftline does not see a ton of traffic but that is the reason it stays open. Sugarbush opted for the same thing when they were deciding to replace the Castlerock Double.


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## ChicoKat (Jan 30, 2013)

I would improve our winters. The rest would take care of itself!


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## legalskier (Jan 30, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> More woods everywhere. Steep narrow trails. Less grooming. Less ropes.



I heartily agree.
Unfortunately the modern trend appears to be going in the opposite direction.




from_the_NEK said:


> I'm not sure that would work so well. it would kind of turn the chairs into sails...





from_the_NEK said:


> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]


[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I've heard that this happens at Mt Snow.  Does it help at all by having the bubble in the down position even if no one is riding the chair?[/FONT]


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## Smellytele (Jan 30, 2013)

legalskier said:


> I've heard that this happens at Mt Snow.  Does it help at all by having the bubble in the down position even if no one is riding the chair?



Pretty sure the doctor will disagree that it happens at Mt Snow.


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## RISkier (Jan 30, 2013)

I mostly like Stowe and I suppose this is motivated because I'm a lazy old man but it seems to me everything is uphill to a lot of lifts. If you base at the old Mansfield lodge it's heart attack hill to the lift. Base at Midway it's an uphill ski to the fourrunner quad (yes, I know, you can ride the Gondi, take cliff trail to Nosedive, then shoot through the little trail through the trees over to ? and go down to the lift. That assumes you know it and it's all open), take the lift from Spruce to Mansfield and it's uphill to the quad. The run outs from the skiers right side of the mountain are uphill to the quad. The Midway lodge which I really like is now really in a goofy spot given all the other main lifts. I'd have run the over easy lift from the slope side of the new Spruce Peak Lodge to the Midway Lodge. Then add a rope tow (like the rope tow between the lodges at Alta) from the Gondola loading area to the quad. And if possible (I've heard they were not permitted to do this) move the loading area of the quad to a lower location.


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## KevinF (Jan 30, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> I believe a lot of the cosmetic changes to Liftline and trails like Goat were done when the ForeRunner Quad was put in around 1986. There may have been some small changes since then. I'll admit I am not a big Stowe guy so I am sure there is someone out there with better knowledge than me.



I'll have to ask the next time I'm up at Stowe; I know a few people there that might know some of the trail history.

According to www.chairlift.org, the double at Stowe was installed in 1960 to supplement the single.  They have this picture:


It looks about the same width, or at least it's certainly not "narrow".  Maybe they did a lot of changes then to accommodate the second chairlift over the same trail.


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

KevinF said:


> I'll have to ask the next time I'm up at Stowe; I know a few people there that might know some of the trail history.
> 
> According to www.chairlift.org, the double at Stowe was installed in 1960 to supplement the single.  They have this picture:
> View attachment 7499
> ...



I don't know if this is the best picture because it is on the lower portion of liftline where the doubles criss crossed and that was always wide. The middle and upper sections were much different I believe. I would like to hear the answer from your friend if you find out


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 30, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Pretty sure the doctor will disagree that it happens at Mt Snow.



Anything is possible. You just need cyclical winds like the ones during the Frankenstorm. It's possible around here but very unlikely and rare in the winter.


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## ss20 (Jan 30, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> I'm not sure that would work so well. it would kind of turn the chairs into sails...



If that was a Yan detachable...
Sorry, my nerdy chairlift jokes have to come out sometimes.:grin:


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## ss20 (Jan 30, 2013)

Nose Dive Trail - Open
Originally known as the Barnes Trail, the Nose Dive Trail was cut by the CCC in 1934 and 1935 and quickly became a world class race trail. Intially descending from the top of the Nose, the start of the trail was later moved a bit downhill, and later truncated to start near the top of the quad chairlift. The trail would eventually be incorporated into the Stowe ski area. The trail was drastically altered in 1965, when the 7 sharp turns were reduced to 3 after significant clearing and bulldozing.
http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/cccskitrails/Vermont/mtmansfield.php#bruce


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## xlr8r (Jan 30, 2013)

Here are some of my ideas, I waste too much time thinking about these sort of things.

Ragged-replace Spear triple with HSQ

Attitash-replace Summit triple with HSQ

Sunapee-replace Sunbowl quad with HSQ

Stratton-replace Gondola cabins with modern CWA omega 8 passenger cabins like those on the gondolas at Killington Stowe, Gore, etc.

Sunday River-replace Tempest quad with HSQ.  Move Tempest to Jordan Bowl to become a beginner chairlift that goes 1/3 up Lallapalooza to allow people to get back to the Jordan Hotel without going to the top.  Build a day lodge at the base of Jordan Bowl.

Killington-build a shorter chairlift next to Skye Peak Express (to the right looking up) that would be mostly a lift for those who use the parks.  Move all the parks and create a new Stash to be served by this new chair.  It would also allow people to escape Bear and get over to Northbrook/Needles area without having to ride Skye Peak Express.  Also put a chair back on South Ridge.

Sugarbush-build a mid-mountain day lodge where the Gatehouse, North Lynx, an Slidebrook chairs converge.

Wachusett-Move the parks to Vickery Bowl, forcing park rats to lap the Vickery chair, freeing up Minuteman Express.  Maybe change the trail designations of Conifer to black diamond, and Smith Walton to double black diamond, to make those trails less crowded by making them seem harder than they really are.  There always seem to be too many people in over their head on Conifer.

Pico-nothing

Burke-nothing


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## ss20 (Jan 30, 2013)

xlr8r said:


> Stratton-replace Gondola cabins with modern CWA omega 8 passenger cabins like those on the gondolas at Killington Stowe, Gore, etc.



Replacement cabins would make Stratton nearly perfect.  Who thought of the plastic benches that are too tall for anyone to sit on?  The 12 people per cabin is a joke.  I don't know how they could fit more than 8.


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## legalskier (Jan 30, 2013)

Elk- allow tree skiing (which would be easy, as sections of their woods form almost natural glades); replace the doubles by the lodge with a HSQ.

Blue- more glades.


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## Conrad (Jan 30, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Replace the triple with a HSQ.



Wouldn't be surprised at all if that happened.


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## Conrad (Jan 30, 2013)

How about a funitel all the way up Sugarloaf. Would that be sick or what.


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## ScottySkis (Jan 31, 2013)

legalskier said:


> Elk- allow tree skiing (which would be easy, as sections of their woods form almost natural glades); replace the doubles by the lodge with a HSQ.
> 
> Blue- more glades.



I like the slow doubles, keeps crowds away. I seen people in the glades from the chairlift. But yes it be nice if they allowed it. Elk should sell tickets by the quad.


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## legalskier (Mar 12, 2013)

Better drainage for:


Cathedral Brook run-out at Belle


Freefall trench at Platty

Is it really that difficult to sink a drainage pipe?


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## ss20 (Mar 12, 2013)

They might not be allowed at Bellayre or Plattekill to put in drainage pipes, it could "harm" the ecosystem in some small way.  Just a guess.  I know Bellayre is on forest land, is Plattekill?

100th post!  Hooray for me!


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## jaywbigred (Mar 12, 2013)

Mt. Snow - seed more bumps on low angle terrain like a few years ago.

Run multi-weekend adult Carinthia park clinics.

Maybe remove some of those older lifts and lift towers that are rarely used to improve skiability. Keep those needed for windhold situations though.

I also feel like there are  a lot of trail closures for racing every weekend.

Breakfast sandwiches until noon on weekends


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## mlkrgr (Mar 12, 2013)

Here's my improvements:

Waterville: start phase one of the expansion out by Sunnyside and put a new HSQ in to serve the new expansion. White Peaks is busy on many days, so this would be much appreciated. 

Sunday River: Remake Spruce Peak Triple into a HSQ. Would prevent people from skiing down to barker. Or put a top to bottom lift on White Cap (maybe gondola).

K: Replace Slowdon quad with a nice high speed 6 pack to eliminate need of all other slowdon lifts. Put something in South Ridge as well

Stratton: Replace gondola cabins

Pat's Peak: Replace the triple with a HSQ. They need it to compete with Crotched.

Loon: replace the gondola to an 8 person one.

Mt Snow: Replace the Tumbleweed lift


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## Conrad (Mar 12, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> Sugarloaf to finish out Bracket Basin and put in a T-bar up Burnt Mtn (no trails ...).



I can't say I would like to see a t-bar in Brackett Basin. Then my curiosity would be satisfied too easily. I'd like to be able to do new runs out on Burnt Mountain for years to come,  not test them all out in one day because of a t-bar.


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## Conrad (Mar 12, 2013)

mlkrgr said:


> Here's my improvements:
> 
> Sunday River: Remake Spruce Peak Triple into a HSQ. Would prevent people from skiing down to barker. Or put a top to bottom lift on White Cap (maybe gondola).
> 
> K: Replace Slowdon quad with a nice high speed 6 pack to eliminate need of all other slowdon lifts. Put something in South Ridge as well



WOW, this is sure to stir up some controversy. I just can't imagine Sunday River putting up a top to bottom lift on White Cap and there really isn't much of a point since why not just start the lift where the current White Heat Quad begins?

Also, the Snowdon Poma at Killington has a lot of staunch fans so it is unlikely they would be pleased by this happening.

But I'm liking that you posted this because it is interesting hearing different ideas.


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## mlkrgr (Mar 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I can't say I would like to see a t-bar in Brackett Basin. Then my curiosity would be satisfied too easily. I'd like to be able to do new runs out on Burnt Mountain for years to come,  not test them all out in one day because of a t-bar.



Would at least do a t bar in terms of a lift in burnt. With a lift, you'd at least get a point of reference when you're skiing in the area so you're much more likely to get lost.


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## Edd (Mar 12, 2013)

Every time I think of an improvement I quickly think of a reason not to do it. Only a couple I feel strongly about. 

Replacing the Rangeley Double at Saddleback is obvious and just a matter of time. 

I hate Loon's gondola and they're a pain to load for skiers anyway. I'd stick the six pack bubble chair Bluebird Express from Mt Snow right in that spot.


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## steamboat1 (Mar 13, 2013)

Upgrade the MRG single chair to to high speed detachable.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Upgrade the MRG single chair to to high speed detachable.



Oh ya and allows snowboarding to lol.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2013)

More ways to get to the hills on more trains that go later then 11am from NYC to Vermont ski train.


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## gregnye (Mar 13, 2013)

mlkrgr said:


> Here's my improvements:
> 
> Loon: replace the gondola to an 8 person one.



No, replace it with a 6-passenger bubble chair. Provides much easier boarding. Plus the summit would be completely overloaded with 8 people per car.

Or at the least, run the speed in station faster so that the gondolas are spaced closer togethor--therefore much more capacity.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2013)

Would love to see Smuggs expand over to Whiteface and Upper Morse. Whiteface would offer expert terrain similar to Madonna and UM would offer lots of intermediate trails. I drool when I look up at Whiteface from Madonna II. I would much rather this than a new HSQ on Sterling.


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## MarkC (Mar 13, 2013)

andyzee said:


> Decrease snowmaking at Plattekill. I realize from a business stand point it required, but one of the things that originally drew me to Plattekill was the natural snow and lack of grooming.



You are really not going to like the plan for this summer


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2013)

MarkC said:


> You are really not going to like the plan for this summer



Finally use that huge huge huge pond, I like them to have more snowmaking because they only open half of terrain most of time. But unfortunately they need more snowmaking with todays climate changes. Maybe I buy my pass at Platty instead of Elk next year.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Would love to see Smuggs expand over to Whiteface and Upper Morse. Whiteface would offer expert terrain similar to Madonna and UM would offer lots of intermediate trails. I drool when I look up at Whiteface from Madonna II. I would much rather this than a new HSQ on Sterling.



Would be awesome, but won't ever happen due to Bear habitat over that way.  As a student at UVM's school of Natural Resources in the late 90s, we helped with several studies over in that area of the mountain range.  There's some major Beech Tree stands, so it's all pretty much off limits to development.


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Would be awesome, but won't ever happen due to Bear habitat over that way.  As a student at UVM's school of Natural Resources in the late 90s, we helped with several studies over in that area of the mountain range.  There's some major Beech Tree stands, so it's all pretty much off limits to development.



Thanks for the info. I had no idea


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## dmc (Mar 13, 2013)

At Hunter I'd regrade the area around the west side quad and the top too...
To make it easier to get to and not have to go uphill..


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## skiking4 (Mar 13, 2013)

Whiteface: Add runs under the gondola to Little Whiteface that drop down that face. Have a traverse coming back.
Hunter: Add trails to skier's left of Purna (most likely single diamond runs because I think it's less steep but no run out, as little as that run out is). Add terrain in ravine between Hunter One and Hunter Mountain and connect them. Cut more tree terrain.
Windham: Needs glades. Cut a ton. expand onto backside of East Peak.
Belleayre: Extend down to Pinehill to have around 2000 vertical, have gondola going to top, add Highmount. Build a much better terrain park.
Plattekill: Extend boundaries, left and right, of resort. Maybe have some lower terrain that goes like 300 vertical lower than the current base and over/under the road.
Stratton: New gondola. 8 person cars.
Catamount: Cut run off Ridge Run to skier's right of Catapult for another double diamond.  Make a glade run in there. Get a better park crew, those jumps are sketch. Expand onto backside- steep terrain back there. Add old run that goes under summit and Glade chair that is semi cut and that ends at the base of Catapult.
Jiminy Peak: Cut glades in between trails. There's plenty of room. Allow more bumps on the side of some runs. Expand more on that second peak.


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## 4aprice (Mar 13, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Would love to see Smuggs expand over to Whiteface and Upper Morse. Whiteface would offer expert terrain similar to Madonna and UM would offer lots of intermediate trails. I drool when I look up at Whiteface from Madonna II. I would much rather this than a new HSQ on Sterling.



Always thought a gondola from the village to the top of Morse with trails spilling down towards Mid Madonna would be cool but the face there looks a little rocky.  Whiteface (Sterling Mountain I believe is its real name) looks awesome but DHS's environmental reasons and the current ski/board economy make his doubts of its developement valid in my book.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

Get the K Pico connection thing done.


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## snowngr (Mar 13, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> I don't know if this is the best picture because it is on the lower portion of liftline where the doubles criss crossed and that was always wide. The middle and upper sections were much different I believe. I would like to hear the answer from your friend if you find out



The double and single did not cross. They were almost perfectly parallel. Could you be thinking of Sugarloaf, Sunapee or Attitash? Not many crossing chairs in new England.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 14, 2013)

More snowmaking and operating the huge huge huge huge snow pond on top of a hill in Roxbury NY, double the deck and bar up stairs. 

Hunter wants to open more terrain but lovely NY will not let.them.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Hunter wants to open more terrain but lovely NY will not let.them.



Doesn't mean we dont ride it...


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## gregnye (Mar 17, 2013)

My Improvements:

Cannon: Fix power issue on Cannonball Quad so that it can revive its fake "express" name--even though it is not detachable! :smile:
-Perhaps install some lift on Banchee to make the Tram area more of a "destination". I realize that this will never happen because Cannon is owned by the state, but there is some nice intermediate pitch at the bottom of the tram that no one can use because they have to ski tramline or kinsman.

Waterville:  CARRY OUT THE EXPANSION!!!!!! Don't just do green peak (phase 1). Carry out phase 2 from green peak to village. Don't install a gondola though, install a bubble chair from village to top of green peak meeting Phase 1.

Loon: Upgrade Kancagmangus (or however you spell it!!) into a 6-passenger lift. Take the old Kancamangus quad that you now replaced (theoretically) and replace 7 brothers with it. Run the new "7-bros express quad" at a slightly slower speed than usual high-speed lifts to not overwhelm gondola area. Upgrade Summit Cafe with more seating and bring back the Jamaican Music!! :razz:

Sunapee: Haven't been there in years and will not come back unless you make the sun-bowl quad high-speed. That is the truth. I HATE that lift. Also try to convince the state to allow west expansion. Trust me, you of all the resorts need it the most!

Attitash: Realign flying yankee express where summit triple is and make it go to the summit. That may make me reconsider whether I want to go there vs. Wildcat (however, I will always pick wildcat!)


Out West:

Vail: Build a High-speed lift up siberia/inner mongolia ridge! This would relive pressure off of the China Bowl Chair and eliminate the cat-track--which is needed.

Breckenridge: Replace 6-Chair with express quad that starts lower down in the valley. It is just silly that you have to ride a slow lift just to get to the imperial express. It makes lapping Whale's tail difficult. Put a bathroom in the warming hut that you have by the imperial express.

Snowmass:  Replace High Alpine double with a faster loading-carpet chair.


I could go on all day! But I won't


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## LasersInTheTaiga (Mar 18, 2013)

I would extend the White Mountains down to the Massachusetts Bay Area, with a 6000-footer right around Peabody to catch the moisture from the ocean. Sorry for the disruption if you live on the North Shore, but on the positive side your house would now be a slope-side condo.


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## Morwax (Mar 18, 2013)

LasersInTheTaiga said:


> I would extend the White Mountains down to the Massachusetts Bay Area, with a 6000-footer right around Peabody to catch the moisture from the ocean. Sorry for the disruption if you live on the North Shore, but on the positive side your house would now be a slope-side condo.


  YEAHHHH.. and then Devil Patrick would close the roads every time they saw flurry coming.. Is skiing really worth a year in jail?


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## ScottySkis (Mar 18, 2013)

LasersInTheTaiga said:


> I would extend the White Mountains down to the Massachusetts Bay Area, with a 6000-footer right around Peabody to catch the moisture from the ocean. Sorry for the disruption if you live on the North Shore, but on the positive side your house would now be a slope-side condo.



How about Google car to get you to stowe and north Vermont to.


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## Bostonian (Mar 18, 2013)

For my home mountain of gunstock the following:


*Easy list:*

1.  Manicure Hotshot, but do not widen it!

2.  Load the beverages and etc, before they start loading the lift at 8:30 for regular days service

3.  Seed bumps on Redhat for experts and Phelps for beginners.  

4.  Open the summit liftline for skiing during seasons with copious amounts of natural snow (a la magic's lift line runs)



*Hard List:*

1.  Cut another expert trail from Upper Ramrod down to trigger or the bottom of Hotshot...

2.  Install a lift up to the Mt. Rowe summit (in the old Single line) and cut some trails from the top down

3.  Cut a trail from the top of Cannonball, down to the top of the ramrod lift.

4.  High Speed quad for the Tiger lift replacement


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## bobbutts (Mar 18, 2013)

For Gunstock I'd say lights to the top of Panorama is the big one.

Saw this pic on FB which reminded me of this thread.






Also noticed that the entire front five pod is all hardwood trees.. Must be some story behind that?


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## LasersInTheTaiga (Mar 18, 2013)

Scotty said:


> How about Google car to get you to stowe and north Vermont to.



My fantasy superpower has always been teleportation.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 18, 2013)

LasersInTheTaiga said:


> My fantasy superpower has always been teleportation.



Me to like a " Beam me up Scotty" and boom we all be the hill, with out being tired and can drink or enjoy your favorite things in the car because it is driving.


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## Scruffy (Mar 18, 2013)

LasersInTheTaiga said:


> My fantasy superpower has always been teleportation.



Carefull what you wish for. You think the slopes are crowed now :-o


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## ScottySkis (Mar 18, 2013)

Scruffy said:


> Carefull what you wish for. You think the slopes are crowed now :-o



No driving ever. I like this no accident. Travel fast at warp speeds.


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## jerseydaze (Mar 19, 2013)

Hunter 
Remove Rare Bird or Bears or what ever cut some new trails on the mountain the zipline goes to 

Bellayre 
Ars cushions on the Super Quad ,reuse the old t bar at the top to get to catheral brook and highmount of course

Mountain Creek 
Put a chair or real gondola in place of the ore bucket,only allow new your city skiers on the mountain after 3pm on weekends and give the skiers back south


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## Cannonball (Mar 19, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> Also noticed that the entire front five pod is all hardwood trees.. Must be some story behind that?



Just nature.  Throughout the whites the hardwoods are mostly at the lower elevations.  And actually those front 5 trees are mostly birch which can handle somewhat higher elevations and harsher conditions as compared to other local hardwoods.


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## 4aprice (Mar 19, 2013)

For my home bump CBK Pa.  Start seeding bumps on Rodo and the skiers right of Cliffhanger.  Keep one of the front 4 naturally bumped.  Improve the lighting.  Install a new HSQ in the underused middle part of the mountain or at least run Marc Antoney chair more often.  (Really dreaming) Add new fixed grip chair to far east side and extend down to tubing park giving mountain an honest 1000 ft vertical.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## C-Rex (Mar 19, 2013)

I'd like to see some hostel or dorm type lodging around mountains.  Like lodges where you can get a bed and a locker for your stuff for like $20-$30/night.  Shared bathrooms would be fine.  I would do a lot more solo, multi-day trips if there were cheap places to stay.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I'd like to see some hostel or dorm type lodging around mountains.  Like lodges where you can get a bed and a locker for your stuff for like $20-$30/night.  Shared bathrooms would be fine.  I would do a lot more solo, multi-day trips if there were cheap places to stay.



I love that, I only know of a few in the North east. Some great hostels in SLC.


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## Morwax (Mar 19, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I'd like to see some hostel or dorm type lodging around mountains.  Like lodges where you can get a bed and a locker for your stuff for like $20-$30/night.  Shared bathrooms would be fine.  I would do a lot more solo, multi-day trips if there were cheap places to stay.


 Why not get a job and bring some money to the resort?


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## C-Rex (Mar 19, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Why not get a job and bring some money to the resort?



Why not stop posting because no one wants to hear what you have to say?


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## Puck it (Mar 19, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Why not get a job and bring some money to the resort?




Boy, you are a "Troll" today!!!!


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## bendzeeknees (Mar 19, 2013)

Cannon: thin out and widen the upper glades - Lost Boys, Go Green and Global Warming could all use a little TLC. The pitch of these slopes combined with them being narrow really lends them to track out fast...and cut the stumps to the ground, not 2' off the ground. Tram houses: They should figure out a way to utilize the bottom of the tram better. A gift shop I never see anyone in and all that space where the "Old Man of the Mountain Museum" is just dead space...and use the wood burning stove down there again. At the top of the tram they need to keep the doors off the deck closed and just use the entrance from where the tram cars enter. This would create a better air lock, otherwise those tables near the doors are almost unbearable. Finally take the couches and move them all down to the bar area and put more tables on the right side.


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## Puck it (Mar 19, 2013)

bendzeeknees said:


> Cannon: thin out and widen the upper glades - Lost Boys, Go Green and Global Warming could all use a little TLC. The pitch of these slopes combined with them being narrow really lends them to track out fast...and cut the stumps to the ground, not 2' off the ground.



You realize that these were not cleared by the Cannon personnel.  They were only added to the trail map aboout five or six years ago.  Lot of stink when they did this.


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## bigbog (Mar 19, 2013)

cannonist said:


> I would replace the summit double at Big Squaw with A fixed Grip Quad, make some base lodge repairs, and overhaul the snowmaking system... that is if I had the money.



+1


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## MadMadWorld (Mar 19, 2013)

Puck it said:


> You realize that these were not cleared by the Cannon personnel.  They were only added to the trail map aboout five or six years ago.  Lot of stink when they did this.



Never skied these but once a mountain adds something to their trail map, they have a responsibility to maintain them.


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## Puck it (Mar 19, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Never skied these but once a mountain adds something to their trail map, they have a responsibility to maintain them.




True but they are glades too.  And don't touch them.  They ski great when fresh.  Like tomorrow if that damn hole would go away.


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## Puck it (Mar 19, 2013)

BTW. This picture really highlights some of the possiblities of Bypass and Paulie's Ext.!!!!


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## bendzeeknees (Mar 19, 2013)

Yes I know, got to ski them back in the day before they were on the map, but I feel like if they put them on the trail map then why not make them all that much better a little pruning and a little widening would go a long way. BTW- I'm surprised they haven't added the other unofficial glades- that photo clearly shows them...


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## HD333 (Mar 19, 2013)

For Gunstock:
Realistic (In my mind)
Open up a trail under both the tiger and panorama lifts. 
Dedicate half of Redhat to bumps, although this year it has been bumped up, I assume naturally. Add some low angle bumps somewhere off of Ramrod.  
Open up some more glades, maybe between Recoil and Gunsmoke.
Build a dedicated mini park for beginners. 
Partner up for some reciprication with another NH Mountain. 
Offer preferred parking for $. 

Unrealistic -
Move the main lodge closer to the Pan or the Pan closer to the main lodge. 
Expand terrain over near the old ski jumps.


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