# Tell Me Where I’m Wrong Thread



## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 13, 2008)

Post an opinion about a ski area, ski equipment, or any thing ski related you can think of that you know some people will disagree with then let them take their best shot and prove you wrong.

I’ll start: Mogul skis are a complete waste for anyone who is not in competition all the time. In other words a waste for a recreational skier who I believe describes everyone in this forum.

The skies are completely useless on any other part of the mountain. They really don’t help those without expert bump skills. If you can ski bumps well you can ski them on any ski. 

So if you have them don't get mad just tell me where I'm wrong.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Feb 13, 2008)

People who show up at the mountain later than 8:30AM on a weekend are a complete waste of space and losers who aren't into skiing.


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## ckofer (Feb 13, 2008)

Okemo is overrated.


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## Paul (Feb 13, 2008)

ckofer said:


> Okemo is overrated.



Skiing is only as fun or challenging as you make it. Even if you are at Okemo.;-)


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## Greg (Feb 13, 2008)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> I’ll start: Mogul skis are a complete waste for anyone who is not in competition all the time. In other words a waste for a recreational skier who I believe describes everyone in this forum.
> 
> The skies are completely useless on any other part of the mountain. They really don’t help those without expert bump skills. If you can ski bumps well you can ski them on any ski.
> 
> So if you have them don't get mad just tell me where I'm wrong.



Have you ever skied a comp level bump ski? If not, you are wrong.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 13, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who show up at the mountain later than 8:30AM on a weekend are a complete waste of space and losers who aren't into skiing.



I'm there at 8:00, but have friends who come later. They are skilled skiers and certainly not losers. They also usually ski to last chair. Many of them ski so frequently they feel no need to get every run in they can cause they know they'll be there the next day. On a powder day they always show early.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 13, 2008)

Greg said:


> Have you ever skied a comp level bump ski? If not, you are wrong.



OK, I never have. What do they do for you that you can't do on your other skis? How do they make you better?


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 13, 2008)

ckofer said:


> Okemo is overrated.



In what way? They market a great snowmaking and grooming product. Is that not what you get when you go there?


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## Paul (Feb 13, 2008)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> In what way? They market a great snowmaking and grooming product. Is that not what you get when you go there?



Yeah, its just like Whiteface only steeper.


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## Greg (Feb 13, 2008)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> OK, I never have. What do they do for you that you can't do on your other skis? How do they make you better?



No fair! I already proved you wrong... 

Seriously, for me, the biggest thing my bump skis have done for me was to let me learn to get my stance tight. As you know, that's very important in the bumps. I also believe it's the best position in powder and other variable terrain.

Since the bump skis let me understand how to create a single stable platform, I am also able to keep my feet locked for the most part also on my mid fats now. Obviously, any soft straight ski would let you do this too, but I wasn't about to search eBay for a 10 year old ski.

Bump skis also have very soft tails so they don't hang up on the backside of the bump. They just release. You're almost not even aware of that section of ski behind you.

My CaBrawlers are also very light (the pair is 11 lbs.) and quick turning which I like. With that said, they are not as horrible out of the bumps as everyone thinks they are. They're not great carving skis, but I don't ski that way anyway.

Anyway, after owning a pair, I will always have a pair of bump skis as part of my quiver. On a day that I'm skiing mostly bumps, I wouldn't want to be on anything else.

So....how'd I do? :razz: BTW, some great thread topics today, HPD. You really are the best at that!
:beer:


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## ckofer (Feb 13, 2008)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> In what way? They (Okemo) market a great snowmaking and grooming product. Is that not what you get when you go there?



For such a large place you don't seem to get a big mountain experience. I will agree that they accomplish what they set out to do. I just wish they could factor in a little more variety.


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## riverc0il (Feb 13, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who show up at the mountain later than 8:30AM on a weekend are a complete waste of space and losers who aren't into skiing.


Just because people don't get fresh untracked does not make them losers who aren't into skiing. They just don't know what they are missing... or perhaps don't care but that may be more related to not knowing what they are missing. Then again, come two months from now, when I go ski Spring Corn, I am not likely to leave my house until 8:30am, let alone show up at a ski area that early before things corn up.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 14, 2008)

Greg said:


> No fair! I already proved you wrong...



You didn't prove me wrong, you just showed everyone my opinion is uninformed. I've never been heli skiing in BC, but I have an opinion it would be good. So I may be talking out of my ass, but I could still be right, although your informed opinion holds more weight.




Greg said:


> So....how'd I do? :



You did good. A friend who has some offered to let me try his, but I never felt like it. I think I will know.


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## billski (Feb 14, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Just because people don't get fresh untracked does not make them losers who aren't into skiing. They just don't know what they are missing... or perhaps don't care but that may be more related to not knowing what they are missing. Then again, come two months from now, when I go ski Spring Corn, I am not likely to leave my house until 8:30am, let alone show up at a ski area that early before things corn up.



I oftentimes get to the mountain late unlike when I was younger and always waited for the first chair.  I primarily daytrip and we sometimes drive 3 hours.  Couple this with being a lot older, getting up before 5am has gotten much more difficult.  
Now, when I'm staying within 10/20 miles of a resort, I always get the first chair, even Stowe's 7:30am Quad.


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## andyzee (Feb 14, 2008)

billski said:


> I oftentimes get to the mountain late unlike when I was younger and always waited for the first chair. I primarily daytrip and we sometimes drive 3 hours. Couple this with being a lot older, getting up before 5am has gotten much more difficult.
> Now, when I'm staying within 10/20 miles of a resort, I always get the first chair, even Stowe's 7:30am Quad.


 
Your not that old yet, if you were, getting up at 5 am would be the norm  Just ask OldsnowboarderME


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## 2knees (Feb 14, 2008)

ckofer said:


> For such a large place you don't seem to get a big mountain experience. I will agree that they accomplish what they set out to do. I just wish they could factor in a little more variety.



MRG it is not, but as i found out, its not ALL groomers and such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Z4XYlhtRM


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## campgottagopee (Feb 14, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who show up at the mountain later than 8:30AM on a weekend are a complete waste of space and losers who aren't into skiing.


From BEETLENUT:
Wow, where to begin? 

Wife not nagging, sick mostly: Chronic Lyme disease
10 year old boy:Lyme induced Autism
4 year old boy: enough said
Thousands and Thousands of dollars in Medical debt:I also pay insurance premiums for all the good that does.
Time off from work: Not a problem
Driving: until this year not a big deal, but with the rising gas prices now a factor.
Biggest factor: Having all the planets align perfectly on the day I want to go (i.e. wife can actually get out of bed that day and take care of the two high energy boys, I have enough money to pull off the day of skiing, the weather happens to cooperate, I'm not sick, and no crisis rears its ugly head hours before I leave). 

Sucks to be me...


NUFF SAID..........


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## billski (Feb 14, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Your not that old yet, if you were, getting up at 5 am would be the norm  Just ask OldsnowboarderME



i get up at 5.  but my essential phrase was "before 5"


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> I’Mogul skis are a complete waste for anyone who is not in competition all the time. In other words a waste for a recreational skier who I believe describes everyone in this forum.
> 
> The skies are completely useless on any other part of the mountain. They really don’t help those without expert bump skills. If you can ski bumps well you can ski them on any ski.



I agree that if you can ski bumps well, you can do that on other skis. However as Greg points out bumps skis helps in getting to that point, the stance for example. I would add other technical aspect like using the front part of the ski, keeping shin pressure and the hip forward to make turns. You have to do more work on making a turn on the flats with a bump ski.  IMO, present day carvers and midfats have so much shape that they can "turn on their own", keeping track or developing the tech to make a mogul turn can grow lax.


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## kcyanks1 (Feb 14, 2008)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> What passes for moguls or bump at most ski areas are just rutted runs that the ski operator was lazy or too cheap to groom flat like it should have been done in the first place. These runs are then advertised as "natural" snow trails.



Those "rutted runs" are the most fun on the mountain, as many would agree.  And it's really only the mountains that brutally over groom that advertise trails as "natural".  The mountains that realize the horrors of too much grooming don't need to advertise the fun stuff as "natural".  They might as well (but don't) advertise the groomed stuff as "artificial" or "ruined" ;-)


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## kcyanks1 (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> MRG it is not, but as i found out, its not ALL groomers and such.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Z4XYlhtRM




You still haven't been to MRG though, right!  Maybe it is like Okemo and Whiteface ;-)


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## 2knees (Feb 14, 2008)

kcyanks1 said:


> You still haven't been to MRG though, right!  Maybe it is like Okemo and Whiteface ;-)



:lol:


I think i'm the only person left on this board who hasnt skied MRG.  

I'm such a gaping loser toolbag.


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## KevinF (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> I think i'm the only person left on this board who hasnt skied MRG.



If it makes you feel any better, I've never been there either.


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## kcyanks1 (Feb 14, 2008)

KevinF said:


> 2knees said:
> 
> 
> > kcyanks1 said:
> ...



Plan a group trip!


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> I think i'm the only person left on this board who hasnt skied MRG.
> ...



You are. The reason is you, more than just about anybody that I know, *needs *to ski MRG. I know how much you love Magic, but MRG is like Magic's big brother on steroids.

It's gonna happen!


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> I think i'm the only person left on this board who hasnt skied MRG.
> ...





KevinF said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I've never been there either.




Me neither!

I've never gone there out of principle.  That whole "Mad River Glen, Ski It If You Can" marketing garbage always annoyed me.  It doesn't rhyme!


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

This one's for [post="235739"]GSS[/post]:

It take more skill to make lots of goofy little turns than it does to make only a few Super-G turns.


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## Paul (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> I think i'm the only person left on this board who hasnt skied MRG.
> ...





KevinF said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I've never been there either.





ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Me neither!



Hello, my name is Paul....and I've never skied Mad River Glen..*sob*


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## Grassi21 (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> I think i'm the only person left on this board who hasnt skied MRG.
> ...



That makes four of us.  Except I am not a loser toolbag.  I should be hitting it in March...


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## Beetlenut (Feb 14, 2008)

Paul said:


> Hello, my name is Paul....and I've never skied Mad River Glen..*sob*


I feel your pain brother. I too have never skiied MRG... *sniff*


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## 2knees (Feb 14, 2008)

Beetlenut said:


> I feel your pain brother. I too have never skiied MRG... *sniff*



alright we need to get a trip together.  1st timers only.  

who's with me?


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## MRGisevil (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> alright we need to get a trip together.  1st timers only.
> 
> who's with me?



I wannna gooooooooooooooooooooooo  I'll act like a first timer, I promise!


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

Speaking of MRG, I think they should ban snowboarders forever. Tell me where I’m wrong.

:-o Oh yes. I went there... :lol:


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## billski (Feb 14, 2008)

Greg said:


> Tell me where I’m wrong.



No.  they should have an "earn your turns day"  after a major dump.  shutoff all the lifts, no ticket required.  :blink:


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## Beetlenut (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> alright we need to get a trip together. 1st timers only.
> 
> who's with me?


 
I would like to, planets aligining of course!


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## WJenness (Feb 14, 2008)

I'd be up for it... I've never been either...

-w


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## cbcbd (Feb 14, 2008)

ckofer said:


> Okemo is overrated.


You just have to be creative and look around - last time I was there in Jan. I hadn't been in a while and had the AZ influence of "Okemo sucks" in my mind... or at least expectation. So I just looked around harder and found some untracked powder in the trees and stuck to those and other untracked tree shots here and there and the mountain's "double diamonds". 
After that I just spent time killing my legs hopping back and forth over the "grooming wall" on the trails making for some nice fake ridge skiing 

Just have to open your eyes and you will see 

Plus, to be overrated... don't you have to be rated high anyway? Who's rating Okemo high on their list - Okemothers?


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## Paul (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> alright we need to get a trip together.  1st timers only.
> 
> who's with me?



Its not over, until we say it is...
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Let's Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 2knees (Feb 14, 2008)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> I've never gone there out of principle.  That whole "Mad River Glen, Ski It If You Can" marketing garbage always annoyed me.  It doesn't rhyme!





Mad River Glen, Ski it if your name is Ben
Mad River Glen, If not now, then when.
Mad River Glen ,Come check out our Den
Mad River Glen ,  its only for real men
Mad River Glen , we're a 10
Mad River Glen , its like true zen


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## deadheadskier (Feb 14, 2008)

Greg said:


> No fair! I already proved you wrong...
> 
> Seriously, for me, the biggest thing my bump skis have done for me was to let me learn to get my stance tight. As you know, that's very important in the bumps. I also believe it's the best position in powder and other variable terrain.



yes about powder WRONG about variable terrain :lol:  

guess I've launched myself into this thread trying to prove you wrong while you're trying to prove hpd wrong :lol:

variable conditions are best skied with skis slightly more than shoulder length apart, and I stress slightly.  Keeping a tight stance as in moguls limits your edging leverage and more important than that also limits your 'independent suspension' some.  I do tighten up my stance a bit during variable conditions as it does promote a more even weight distribution over my skis, but no where near as tight as I keep it when bumping.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> Mad River Glen, Ski it if your name is Ben
> Mad River Glen, If not now, then when.
> Mad River Glen ,Come check out our Den
> Mad River Glen ,  its only for real men
> ...



*Mad River Glen, If not now, then when*. I like this one better then the real one, cause like said already, the real one doesn't rhyme.


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## Paul (Feb 14, 2008)

Mad River Glen, Ski it when we're o-pen.


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> yes about powder WRONG about variable terrain :lol:
> 
> guess I've launched myself into this thread trying to prove you wrong while you're trying to prove hpd wrong :lol:
> 
> variable conditions are best skied with skis slightly more than shoulder length apart, and I stress slightly.  Keeping a tight stance as in moguls limits your edging leverage and more important than that also limits your 'independent suspension' some.  I do tighten up my stance a bit during variable conditions as it does promote a more even weight distribution over my skis, but no where near as tight as I keep it when bumping.



I could never ski with a wider than shoulder width stance regardless of conditions. Maybe on super steep groomers where you inherently have to. By "variable conditions" I meant tracked up powder, crud, small psuedo-bumps, undulating natural terrain, etc. I find my stance widens in the trees, mostly to allow me to wedge a bit periodically to control speed, as gaperish as that sounds. Sometimes a tight line just doesn't allow for a turn. Tight trees is where my form is the worst.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 14, 2008)

Greg said:


> I could never ski with a wider than shoulder width stance regardless of conditions. Maybe on super steep groomers where you inherently have to. By "variable conditions" I meant tracked up powder, crud, small psuedo-bumps, undulating natural terrain, etc. I find my stance widens in the trees, mostly to allow me to wedge a bit periodically to control speed, as gaperish as that sounds. Sometimes a tight line just doesn't allow for a turn. Tight trees is where my form is the worst.




I used to feel the same way as I pretty much skied bumps exclusively from age 12 to age 18.  Because of that, the major deficiency is my skiing was that I didn't carve very well on groomed snow.  I had to force myself to ski with a wider stance to become a better carver.  From there I brought my stance in to just about shoulder width for skiing crud.  Even in powder I don't ski with my legs quite as tight as bumps.

to each their own though.  Stein was heckuva a racer with his boots practically glued together, so its about results for the individual.


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## 2knees (Feb 14, 2008)

If you arent skiing trees these days, you arent a real skier.


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## Paul (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> If you arent skiing trees these days, you arent a real skier.



But...... What IS real?


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## MRGisevil (Feb 14, 2008)

Paul said:


> But...... What IS real?


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> If you arent skiing trees these days, you arent a real skier.




Maybe you mean a real good skier. You have to be able to turn them quick and tight or serious injury awaits.


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## 2knees (Feb 14, 2008)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Maybe you mean a real good skier. You have to be able to turn them quick and tight or serious injury awaits.



ok thats fair.  btw, i suck at trees.  Just seems like a huge shift in recent years where people act like all cut trails are just reasons to get to trees.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> ok thats fair.  btw, i suck at trees.  Just seems like a huge shift in recent years where people act like all cut trails are just reasons to get to trees.



Alot of people just like to talk. I'd bet better then 95% of the people at any givin mountain never go into the glades.


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> ok thats fair.  btw, i suck at trees.  Just seems like a huge shift in recent years where people act like all cut trails are just reasons to get to trees.



Yep. Sorta ties in with the mentality that anything less than untracked powder is hardly worth skiing. I'll never get that. Perhaps I'm just not fortunate enough to score virgin snow very often. And I'm okay with that.


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

Speaking of virgins, what about the MRG trip?


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

jack97 said:


> Speaking of virgins, what about the MRG trip?



Propose something in T&E.


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## Marc (Feb 14, 2008)

It's OK to bring a quadraped as your date to your best friend's wedding.


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## KevinF (Feb 14, 2008)

2knees said:


> alright we need to get a trip together.  1st timers only.
> 
> who's with me?



I'd love to go at some point.


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## cbcbd (Feb 14, 2008)

Marc said:


> It's OK to bring a quadraped as your date to your best friend's wedding.


Is your best friend a quadraped? Is your best friend marrying a quadraped? 

If you answered yes to any of those then I don't see any wrong.

And if you answered no... well, what state are you talking about?


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> People who show up at the mountain later than 8:30AM on a weekend are a complete waste of space and losers who aren't into skiing.



I usually dont show up till about 10:30.   On most occasions the hill does not start to loosen up till then.


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## Beetlenut (Feb 14, 2008)

Marc said:


> It's OK to bring a quadraped as your date to your best friend's wedding.


 
Quadraped, moped ...why should your friend care anyway?


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## Marc (Feb 14, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> Is your best friend a quadraped? Is your best friend marrying a quadraped?
> 
> If you answered yes to any of those then I don't see any wrong.
> 
> And if you answered no... well, what state are you talking about?



No, and no.

BUT, it is in South Carolina, so it's probably kosher.


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

Marc said:


> .....so it's probably kosher.



Kosher? What kind of quadraped is this?


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

*Mrg*

Mad river glenn is the mecca of skiing to a lot of folks in here.   The vert is not great.  The lifts are slow.  The grooming sucks( yes things need to be groomed in the NE with the thaw freeze cycles) The terrain is fine but nothing that you can find at other hills in the area and ski twice as many runs. MRG  Ski it if you can.......stand waiting in lift lines and sitting on chairs.


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

jack97 said:


> Speaking of virgins, what about the MRG trip?





Greg said:


> Propose something in T&E.



I got popped several years ago, I've been thinking of heading back up soon. I have trips plans till the end of the month. I should have a better idea on March soon.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Mad river glenn is the mecca of skiing to a lot of folks in here.   The vert is not great.  The lifts are slow.  The grooming sucks( yes things need to be groomed in the NE with the thaw freeze cycles) The terrain is fine but nothing that you can find at other hills in the area and ski twice as many runs. MRG  Ski it if you can.......stand waiting in lift lines and sitting on chairs.





Nice of you to take some of the heat off of GSS with this post....


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## wa-loaf (Feb 14, 2008)

Marc said:


> No, and no.
> 
> BUT, it is in South Carolina, so it's probably kosher.



Only if you're related.


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Mad river glenn is the mecca of skiing to a lot of folks in here.   The vert is not great.  The lifts are slow.  The grooming sucks( yes things need to be groomed in the NE with the thaw freeze cycles) The terrain is fine but nothing that you can find at other hills in the area and ski twice as many runs. MRG  Ski it if you can.......stand waiting in lift lines and sitting on chairs.



2K' is "not great?" Jeez. Whiteface has you really spoiled. Do you always ski T2B at Whiteface? What's the vert on the lower/upper lifts?

I usually get in less than 10 runs/day at MRG. That's plenty of skiing for me. The Single is no slower than any other FG lift. In fact, the new Single feels a bit faster to me, but it's probably not. At MRG, it's not about how much vert you can log and generally I am a "get in as many runs as possible" type guy.

MRG's grooming doesn't suck. Grooming in general sucks. You certainly need to pick your days at MRG and the ones I choose are weekdays when lines are negligible. I've also been fortunate enough to have mostly powder conditions on each of my visits (only four).

How many trails at Whiteface are like Paradise or Fall Line? How many Lower Antelopes do you have? Are they comparable in length?


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> The terrain is fine but nothing that you can find at other hills in the area and ski twice as many runs. MRG  Ski it if you can.......stand waiting in lift lines and sitting on chairs.



That sound like bait to me. Ungroom trails are non longer in existent in other places. And yes, that's what makes it fun and challenging. Truth be told, I rather wait till all the powder is gone and the place has bumps with nice lines... can't find that in the majority of place in the east. The only problem for me is that MRG is about 3.5 hours away, sucks to have the quads toasted while making that long ride home.


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

Greg said:


> 2K' is "not great?" Jeez. Whiteface has you really spoiled. Do you always ski T2B at Whiteface? What's the vert on the lower/upper lifts?
> 
> I usually get in less than 10 runs/day at MRG. That's plenty of skiing for me. The Single is no slower than any other FG lift. In fact, the new Single feels a bit faster to me, but it's probably not. At MRG, it's not about how much vert you can log and generally I am a "get in as many runs as possible" type guy.
> 
> ...




Little WF is 2300 vert.  Summit chair is about 1800.   I will take you to places at whiteface that will have you wondering why you ever waited 60 chairs to ski a hill.


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

jack97 said:


> That sound like bait to me. Ungroom trails are non longer in existent in other places. And yes, that's what makes it fun and challenging. Truth be told, I rather wait till all the powder is gone and the place has bumps with nice lines... can't find that in the majority of place in the east. The only problem for me is that MRG is about 3.5 hours away, sucks to have the quads toasted while making that long ride home.



Powder gone and bumps with nice lines.  Yeah I would say that barely ever exists.  On the big hills the bumps turn into boiler plate. 

HMMM Whiteface has what you decribe  
Killington has what you decribe
Stowe has what you decribe
Jay has what you decribe
and so on


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

I usually get in less than 10 runs/day at MRG. That's plenty of skiing for me. The Single is no slower than any other FG lift. In fact, the new Single feels a bit faster to me, but it's probably not. At MRG, it's not about how much vert you can log and generally I am a "get in as many runs as possible" type guy


I can get to the mountain at noon time and get in more runs.  Just saying not picking


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Little WF is 2300 vert.  Summit chair is about 1800.   I will take you to places at whiteface that will have you wondering why you ever waited 60 chairs to ski a hill.



So unless you do T2B at Whiteface (needing at least two chairs, right?), the vert is comparable. I'm sure locals at every mountain know about off map lines that are great. Same holds true for MRG, I'd imagine. When comparing on map terrain, make some comparisons between specific trails at Whiteface and MRG. I never counted chairs, but I would be surprised if I ever waited 60 chairs at MRG. It's possible though, I guess.


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> I can get to the mountain at noon time and get in more runs.  Just saying not picking



That's cool. It is my impression that Whiteface is very uncrowded. No crowds and great terrain is a perfect combo, no doubt. Can't argue with that. My point is I never feel cheated if I only get in 10 runs at MRG.


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

Greg said:


> So unless you do T2B at Whiteface (needing at least two chairs, right?), the vert is comparable. I'm sure locals at every mountain know about off map lines that are great. Same holds true for MRG, I'd imagine. When comparing on map terrain, make some comparisons between specific trails at Whiteface and MRG. I never counted chairs, but I would be surprised if I ever waited 60 chairs at MRG. It's possible though, I guess.



Like you said you dont go there much onthe weekend.   

Making comparisons I can not do because to cant remember names at MRG.  Recreational hazzard.  I would say Makenzie, Empire on Little Whieface compare on the lower mountain to the terrain at MRG.  Upper mountain.  its hard to compare cause we never level out to get a breath.  Its vert top to bottom  Cloud and ski are good.  They are wide but if you get to the sides you can go through trees and jump off of things.  Cloud is a 1800 vert double fall line natural bump run most of the winter.   All on map stuff.  Off map stuff is to tight for most people to ski.  A bumper could make it through but a gs turner will eat bark


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Powder gone and bumps with nice lines.  Yeah I would say that barely ever exists.  On the big hills the bumps turn into boiler plate.
> 
> HMMM Whiteface has what you decribe
> Killington has what you decribe
> ...



Kilington is grooming more and they don't let the bumps develop. And no they don't let most of their trails bump up like MRG. 

The places you list other than Jay grooms most of the trails on a bi daily basis, it doesnt compare. Yeah they leave some trials alone but it still doesn't compare to over half the trails as in MRG.


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## tjf67 (Feb 14, 2008)

jack97 said:


> Kilington is grooming more and they don't let the bumps develop. And no they don't let most of their trails bump up like MRG.
> 
> The places you list other than Jay grooms most of the trails on a bi daily basis, it doesnt compare. Yeah they leave some trials alone but it still doesn't compare to over half the trails as in MRG.




After a thaw and then a freeze mad river aint worth a crap.  they dont make snow and they dont groom.  They can spin it any way they want but the fact remains they are only good a third of the season.  The rest they are a chunk of ice


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Like you said you dont go there much onthe weekend.
> 
> Making comparisons I can not do because to cant remember names at MRG.  Recreational hazzard.  I would say Makenzie, Empire on Little Whieface compare on the lower mountain to the terrain at MRG.  Upper mountain.  its hard to compare cause we never level out to get a breath.  Its vert top to bottom  Cloud and ski are good.  They are wide but if you get to the sides you can go through trees and jump off of things.  Cloud is a 1800 vert double fall line natural bump run most of the winter.   All on map stuff.  Off map stuff is to tight for most people to ski.  A bumper could make it through but a gs turner will eat bark



Right. Saturdays at MRG are brutal as I understand it, no doubt. Trying to get HPD on board for early April at Whiteface. It would be great to ski with you too.


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> After a thaw and then a freeze mad river aint worth a crap.  they dont make snow and they dont groom.  They can spin it any way they want but the fact remains they are only good a third of the season.  The rest they are a chunk of ice



They don't try to spin it though. It is what it is. Again, you have to pick your days but when you hit it right, it's great. MRG also does pretty well in snowfall department, remember, at least compared to Iceface. :smash:


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## cbcbd (Feb 14, 2008)

Picking on MRG for the vert and # of runs and speed of the lifts? And comparing it to the big mountains? 

It's like picking on Ron Jeremy for being short.


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## jack97 (Feb 14, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> After a thaw and then a freeze mad river aint worth a crap.  they dont make snow and they dont groom.  They can spin it any way they want but the fact remains they are only good a third of the season.  The rest they are a chunk of ice



Yep, that's part of the development and what makes bump skiing most fun. Several years back during one of those thaw/freeze and snow drought seasons, I wiped out along with others on their groomed trails b/c of boilerplate..... their black trails were as stated in the snow report "edgeable". You have to pick you shots on when to ski.


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