# Jay Peak Drops Lift Ticket Prices



## riverc0il (Oct 16, 2012)

http://www.boston.com/travel/explorene/specials/ski/blog/2012/10/jay_peak_drops.html



> A single-day lift ticket price has dropped from $75 to $64 for the 2012-13 season. Multi-day tickets also saw a price decrease of $10 per day. Thus, a five-day pass will cost $50 less than it did last season.​



Wow! :-o

I was rather indifferent to the waterpark before. It is starting to grow on me.

:beer:


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## Gnarcissaro (Oct 16, 2012)

Saw this on the ol' fb feed today. Good news, indeed.


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## mlkrgr (Oct 16, 2012)

Very good news indeed. Wonder if they'll come out with something for groups especially that groups spend a shorter amount of time at Jay since the ride is longer in terms of day skiers from Boston. Paying $68-80 for these services (with no price break for Jay vs other destinations like SR with the sole exception of Stowe in some instances) deems Jay to be a bit of a less of a value due to this (but I end up liking Jay but I am sure others shy away from coming here due to this). With the longer ride, it'll be a great way for people to get introduced to Jay.


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## Paul_M (Oct 16, 2012)

We have 2 trips planned to Jay so far, hoping we like it.  Cheaper lift tickets certainly won't hurt.


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 16, 2012)

$11 off, can't complain. Too bad it's like $90 of gas to get there and back!


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## from_the_NEK (Oct 16, 2012)

I wonder if the Vermonter discount and other deals they had are still part of their ticketing structure after dropping the regular ticket price?


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## from_the_NEK (Oct 16, 2012)

Well a quick search and the Vermonter ticket went from $55 to $50. No restrictions!

I'm hoping the Burke ticketing is similar. Their Vermonter rate was Sunday to Friday last year.


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## skiNEwhere (Oct 16, 2012)

I never thought I'd see lift tickets go back down....Maybe the recession is hurting ski resorts so bad that they figure families have cut out skiing for leisure, and are trying to get them back.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 16, 2012)

$64 peak holiday rate at Jay????  seriously???

that's incredible given their product.


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## Nick (Oct 16, 2012)

I was surprised by the drop as well. Great for skiers. They must be hoping they get increased visits to offset the reduction in ticket prices. I wonder what this does to drive more visitors?


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## gmcunni (Oct 16, 2012)

what towns nearby would be good to search for decent priced off-mountain lodging?  going to VRBO but not familiar with the general area.  thinking of a long weekend with friends and family since they have good non-skiing activities which the kids would like (water park).


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## jaybird (Oct 16, 2012)

While Jay is a great place to ski, a $10 discount on a day pass moves them no close to any metropolitan area. That's their big issue.
Even setting aside the 'trip exhaustion factor', $90 of fuel outweighs a ticket price drop. Canada will be the benefactor of this decision.


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## skiNEwhere (Oct 17, 2012)

I think Jay takes Canadian currency too, I wonder if it is C10 off as well?

Now all Beaver Creek needs to do is lower their lift ticket from $105 a day and we'll be ok


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 17, 2012)

skiNEwhere said:


> I never thought I'd see lift tickets go back down....*Maybe the recession is hurting ski resorts so bad that they figure families have cut out skiing for leisure, and are trying to get them back*.



This is a big part of it, IMO, also the fact they'll make it up in volume.  

My snap judgement is that Jay will actually make MORE this way.  

I dont know how many people pay $75 to begin with in this economic climate, and high ticket prices wont help Jay with its' #1 weakness, which is, _"Wow, THAT'S in the middle of nowhere.  We'll just go to________ instead"_ (Stowe, Sugarbush, Killington, Smuggs, etc.)

   So financially speaking, my bet is this being the correct move for Jay.  Please keep in mind they also have more ancillary revenue sources (waterpark, ice skating, etc..), so GETTING people up there should lead to additional revenue from non-skiing sources in a sum far greater than the $11 difference ($75 vs. $64).



Nick said:


> I was surprised by the drop as well. Great for skiers. *They must be hoping they get increased visits to offset the reduction in ticket prices.* I wonder what this does to drive more visitors?



Precisely.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 17, 2012)

skiNEwhere said:


> *I think Jay takes Canadian currency too, I wonder if it is C10 off as well?*



It is, but you have to have Canadian ID.   And the US economy is such a trainwreck right now, that believe it or not the CAD is embarrassingly actually a bit stronger than the USD.

But back in the day you didnt need to be Canadian to pay in Canadian funds, and the exchange rate was 1 USD = $1.65, which was cheaper than even the $40 Vermonter rate.  In the early 00's I used to pay at the window in CAD and I want to say it worked out to about $30-$32 USD = *AWESOME!*


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## Smellytele (Oct 17, 2012)

Now if they would only drop the lodging rates. They actually may have I don't know. Lodging rates are what would attract me to spend more at the mountain. When I can find way better prices off mountain I don't bother staying on mountain. A 10 min ride is worth saving the 200 to 300 (or more) it would cost me extra a weekend to stay on mountain.


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## jaybird (Oct 17, 2012)

The Tram haus is pricey indeed...stayed there the year it opened and it was really nice.
Now that they have the Hotel completed, the lodging rates in their valley may have reduced.
The B+Bs around Troy are not that plentiful, but they are well kept and clean.
Jay relies on day trippers and the occasion al over-niter from Montreal. That's their market.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Oct 17, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> what towns nearby would be good to search for decent priced off-mountain lodging?  going to VRBO but not familiar with the general area.  thinking of a long weekend with friends and family since they have good non-skiing activities which the kids would like (water park).



I used to stay on the Montgomery Center side of things. There are a number of cabins and houses to rent along Rt. 242 west of the resort which are large enough for families and big groups.


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 17, 2012)

Smellytele said:


> Now if they would only drop the lodging rates. They actually may have I don't know. Lodging rates are what would attract me to spend more at the mountain. When I can find way better prices off mountain I don't bother staying on mountain. A 10 min ride is worth saving the 200 to 300 (or more) it would cost me extra a weekend to stay on mountain.



It seems like they are going the route of casinos and amusement parks.....they give the consumer attract offers to come visit and then get them to dish out money for other stuff while they are there (waterpark, lodging, etc.). Not that this is a bad thing. It definitely works!


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## WWF-VT (Oct 17, 2012)

Who cares about the price of a lift ticket - how can I get a deal on admission to the Pump House waterpark?


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## Smellytele (Oct 17, 2012)

WWF-VT said:


> Who cares about the price of a lift ticket - how can I get a deal on admission to the Pump House waterpark?



Liftopia had some deals for the Pump house


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## Smellytele (Oct 17, 2012)

MadMadWorld said:


> It seems like they are going the route of casinos and amusement parks.....they give the consumer attract offers to come visit and then get them to dish out money for other stuff while they are there (waterpark, lodging, etc.). Not that this is a bad thing. It definitely works!



For me staying in a hotel sized room rarely works because I have a family of 5. Also when on guy weekends the number of beds is the most important thing. House renting always works best for me weather it is skiing or an amusement park. I guess I am not their marketing target.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 17, 2012)

I guess it's good for day trippers or people staying at other accommodations nearby but the price they charge for a room in their hotel is crazy. You have to buy admission to the water park whether you plan on using it or not. Can't remember exactly but they wanted close to $500 for a room for 3 of us last spring not including lift tickets. We got a room down the road for the 3 us for $100.

edit: I believe the name of the place we stayed was the Cedarwood Resort. It was only about a mile down the road & had a decent bar/restaurant on site that was reasonably priced.


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## Cornhead (Oct 17, 2012)

If you don't mind no TV, and mirrors on the ceiling above the beds, The Snowshoe Lodge in Montgomery is dirt cheap, $30 per night. I've only stayed there in the Spring, so I don't know if they charge more mid-season, or how hard it is to get a room. Quite a contrast from the swank digs up the road. It was a bit shocking to lay back on the bed and see an overweight, bald, middle aged man staring back at me, I slept in the other bed. A couple years back, they had Genny Cream Ale on tap, it was like a little piece of home 400 miles away.


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## Huck_It_Baby (Oct 17, 2012)

Cornhead said:


> If you don't mind no TV, and mirrors on the ceiling above the beds, The Snowshoe Lodge in Montgomery is dirt cheap, $30 per night. I've only stayed there in the Spring, so I don't know if they charge more mid-season, or how hard it is to get a room. Quite a contrast from the swank digs up the road. It was a bit shocking to lay back on the bed and see an overweight, bald, middle aged man staring back at me, I slept in the other bed. A couple years back, they had Genny Cream Ale on tap, it was like a little piece of home 400 miles away.



A Rochester Local! Nothing like a Genny! =)


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## Nick (Oct 17, 2012)

Are the beds coin op? 

Any other resorts dropping prices ? Is Stowe still at the top for lift ticket price, we haven't broken $100 yet have we ?


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## steamboat1 (Oct 17, 2012)

Nick said:


> Any other resorts dropping prices ? Is Stowe still at the top for lift ticket price, we haven't broken $100 yet have we ?


I believe Killington & Sugarbush are going up $2 to $88 & Stowe already posted lift tickets will be $92 peak season.


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## Smellytele (Oct 17, 2012)

Cornhead said:


> If you don't mind no TV, and mirrors on the ceiling above the beds, The Snowshoe Lodge in Montgomery is dirt cheap, $30 per night. I've only stayed there in the Spring, so I don't know if they charge more mid-season, or how hard it is to get a room. Quite a contrast from the swank digs up the road. It was a bit shocking to lay back on the bed and see an overweight, bald, middle aged man staring back at me, I slept in the other bed. A couple years back, they had Genny Cream Ale on tap, it was like a little piece of home 400 miles away.



The Snowshoe is very interesting local hangout. The rooms are above the bar. I think the rooms rent either by the month or by the hour. In other words people live there and it maybe a house of ill-repute (might teach Zumba there).


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## deadheadskier (Oct 17, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> I believe Killington & Sugarbush are going up $2 to $88 & Stowe already posted lift tickets will be $92 peak season.



So, a 1st time visit to Stowe would be $102 out of pocket now then yes?  IIRC I had to buy an RFID card when I went last year.  You could get your $10 back at the end of the day, but even with that I'm sure there's a bit of sticker shock shelling out $102 the first time you go.


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## Cornhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Nick said:


> Are the beds coin op?
> 
> Any other resorts dropping prices ? Is Stowe still at the top for lift ticket price, we haven't broken $100 yet have we ?



No, but the mirror surprised me, I didn't have one in my room the first time I stayed there. The bar is pretty cool, I had fun and I don't even drink anymore. They had a band, and there were some interesting patrons at the bar. It would have been my kind of place when I did imbibe.

I think it's a smart move by Jay. The fact that gas prices are so high, and they are off the beaten path should encourage people to consider Jay, oh yeah the skiing isn't too shabby either. I've been hitting them in the Spring the last few years, I'll have to get up there mid-season sometime.


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## 4aprice (Oct 17, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> So, a 1st time visit to Stowe would be $102 out of pocket now then yes?  IIRC I had to buy an RFID card when I went last year.  You could get your $10 back at the end of the day, but even with that I'm sure there's a bit of sticker shock shelling out $102 the first time you go.



  Stowe is a great mountain but that's steep.  Won't be getting there any time soon without a deep discount.  Let's hope Jay is leading the curve with this trend.  Sometimes you gotta wonder where they think their customers are coming from?  If you plan right you can ski the west for less.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## deadheadskier (Oct 17, 2012)

yeah I've never paid full boat at Stowe.  It's my favorite mountain by far too.  No place is worth that kind of cash.  Then again, that $92 would be considered a cheap round of golf for much of their clientele.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 17, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> So, a 1st time visit to Stowe would be $102 out of pocket now then yes?  IIRC I had to buy an RFID card when I went last year.  You could get your $10 back at the end of the day, but even with that I'm sure there's a bit of sticker shock shelling out $102 the first time you go.


Not to nit pick but I believe it's only $5 for the RFID pass & it is refundable.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 17, 2012)

4aprice said:


> Stowe is a great mountain but that's steep.  Won't be getting there any time soon without a deep discount.  Let's hope Jay is leading the curve with this trend.  Sometimes you gotta wonder where they think their customers are coming from?  If you plan right you can ski the west for less.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ


Alex I ski Stowe several times a season & like DH I never pay full freight. I either use a VT. Pass which is around $42 a day or ski there during their ski club appreciation days which this year will cost me $45 for a 1 day ticket, 2 days for $66 or 3 days for $98. That's a sweetheart deal I think. They also sometimes run discounted tickets for St. Pats day. Last year they didn't because St. Pat's fell on a Sat. This year it falls on a Sun. I think so who knows if they're going to run the discount. Of course you have to pay $5 additional for the RFID card but it's refundable. In addition I could ski Stowe for 4 days (Wed.-Sat. 3/13-3/16 for $122) & if they run a discount on St. Pats (3/17) 5 days. I believe they charged $39 for skiing that day last time they offered it.


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## gmcunni (Oct 17, 2012)

Huck_It_Baby said:


> I used to stay on the Montgomery Center side of things. There are a number of cabins and houses to rent along Rt. 242 west of the resort which are large enough for families and big groups.


thanks, looking for some to share with another family for a long weekend, will check out MC.


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## luvinjaycloud (Oct 17, 2012)

Man,  last year there were a lot of people Biatching about the RFID and how they had to pay up for the use of a refillable card.  The press realease says the RFID system is key to their ability to charge a lower price.   I guess those folks won't be complaning about the 11 dollar savings per day this year.


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## Smellytele (Oct 17, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> thanks, looking for some to share with another family for a long weekend, will check out MC.



I stayed in a rental house on Edelweiss Cir in MC that had three good size bedrooms - found it through VRBO I think.


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## 4aprice (Oct 17, 2012)

steamboat1 said:


> Alex I ski Stowe several times a season & like DH I never pay full freight. I either use a VT. Pass which is around $42 a day or ski there during their ski club appreciation days which this year will cost me $45 for a 1 day ticket, 2 days for $66 or 3 days for $98. That's a sweetheart deal I think. They also sometimes run discounted tickets for St. Pats day. Last year they didn't because St. Pat's fell on a Sat. This year it falls on a Sun. I think so who knows if they're going to run the discount. Of course you have to pay $5 additional for the RFID card but it's refundable. In addition I could ski Stowe for 4 days (Wed.-Sat. 3/13-3/16 for $122) & if they run a discount on St. Pats (3/17) 5 days. I believe they charged $39 for skiing that day last time they offered it.



Appreciate the info.  I cringe any time I see 3 digits for a lift ticket.  Its for peak season anyways so its very unlikely I would go then.  Anything under $50 is right up my ally.  Paid $45 for Smuggs last March which I think is a great price.  Don't want to sound cheap just thrifty.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## Nick (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm sure they don't want to push over the $100 number. That's a big mental hurdle ... triple digits ....


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## Nick (Oct 17, 2012)

4aprice said:


> Appreciate the info.  I cringe any time I see 3 digits for a lift ticket.  Its for peak season anyways so its very unlikely I would go then.  Anything under $50 is right up my ally.  Paid $45 for Smuggs last March which I think is a great price.  Don't want to sound cheap just thrifty.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Well you can ski twice instead of once if you can find a ticket for $40 instead of $80.


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## marcski (Oct 17, 2012)

And, Steve Earl is playing on November 30 at the Foeger Ballroom.  Has anyone seen a show there? It's supposed to be a cool venue....David Grisman and his Bluegrass Experience played a few weeks ago I believe.


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## fbrissette (Oct 17, 2012)

On the other hand, they increased the prices for season's passes.  Strange marketing move.


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## riverc0il (Oct 17, 2012)

fbrissette said:


> On the other hand, they increased the prices for season's passes.  Strange marketing move.


I don't think it is so strange. They are trying to drive more day traffic. As much as they might market it as 'the right thing to do since the resort amenities have done so well financially' or whatever, it is a business decision. They want to make up the lost margin percent in margin dollars, drive a higher total volume despite less average yield per ticket per person. I doubt a lot of people are just going to Jay, buying a lift ticket, and heading home (well, I am sure a lot of people do that but I bet the percentage of total guests doing that at Jay is significantly less than the rest of NoVT). 

More specifically, they are competing for Montreal day trippers. There are plenty of options for Montrealers without having to add in the hassle of crossing the boarder. Maybe an extra $10/person less will be the difference. I think this price may get them below (or at least on par with) Orford, Sutton, and Bromont. 

Jay season pass holders are going to pay a slight increase to be Jay season pass holders. I don't see a small increase in season pass prices changing any one's mind. That is a captive audience and Jay probably isn't going to get any more pass holders by dropping that price... or at least they won't be able to offset the losses with volume in that category.

Maybe a cheaper day ticket makes the water park ticket easier to add on. What is a ski ticket plus a water park ticket? This drop must get that combo close to $100, no?


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## fbrissette (Oct 17, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> Jay season pass holders are going to pay a slight increase to be Jay season pass holders. I don't see a small increase in season pass prices changing any one's mind. That is a captive audience and Jay probably isn't going to get any more pass holders by dropping that price... or at least they won't be able to offset the losses with volume in that category.



I agree with what you're saying from a business perspective.  They take the season pass holders for granted. Still a strange way to treat your best customers.

Having said that, compared to the daily ticket price, Jay's season pass is still one of the best deal around.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 17, 2012)

Smellytele said:


> Now *if they would only drop the lodging rates*.



My jaw almost hit the floor when I found out what they charge.  You can rent a ski lodge/home/cabin for less!



WWF-VT said:


> Who cares about the price of a lift ticket - *how can I get a deal on admission to the Pump House *waterpark?



Go into gas stations and grocery stores in the Burlington or St. Albans area and they often have BOGO coupons hanging on 2-liter soda bottles.  Also, in the Burlington Free Press they had BOGO coupons at times.




Nick said:


> *Are the beds coin op? *



When I was a little kid I guess was the tail-end of when those were en vogue.  I asked my parents what they were for. Answer?  Oh, uh, it's if you want a massage (of course I bought it).



4aprice said:


> Stowe is a great mountain but that's steep. *Sometimes you gotta wonder where they think their customers are coming from?  *



I've met thousands of Stowe customers.  Affluent from Boston, NYC, CT, NJ, MA and the wealthy suburban environs.  Upscale clientele that want the apres-ski nice restaurants, hotels and/or B&B, some shopping for the ladies, Spa, etc...  You'll even encounter a Vermont rarity there, celebrities.  Saw Alec Baldwin, Steve Buschemi, and a few others....  Also never ceased to amaze me how many Euros would come over, which I never understood, but the English got a great deal on the £ exchange rate, that's for sure.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 18, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> Steve Buschemi, and a few others....



One of my best friends worked Stowe Ski School for several years.  Taught Steve's kids how to ski.  After 4 days of having Steve's kids all day in a lessons the bastard didn't even leave a tip.  :lol:


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## WWF-VT (Oct 18, 2012)

Smellytele said:


> Liftopia had some deals for the Pump house


Your sarcasm meter must be set too low....I don't care at all about a waterpark at a ski resort


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## Steve@jpr (Oct 18, 2012)

*Correctly Pinned*



WWF-VT said:


> Your sarcasm meter must be set too low....I don't care at all about a waterpark at a ski resort



I would like credit for not taking the bait on this one WWF--I knew you where you were headed...

As to grotesquely expensive lodging rates, they are definitely a bit higher than many other resorts (where, incidentally, the lodging properties tend to range broadly from extraordinarily old to ancient in many cases), but nowhere near jaw-dropping--at least through my potentially narrow filter of the definition.  To wit, and depending on when you come, a family of four can Splash and Stay in a Studio suite in the new HJ or a 1br in the New Golf and Mountain cottages (with full kitchens) for $238 a night--that includes 4 park admissions, Ice Haus access, free valet parking, etc..  A family of 4 can Ski and Stay from just $289 in the same configuration--that's 4 lift tickets plus lodging, per day/night.  And for the full all-in package, a family of four can ski, splash and stay for $340 a night.  And all packages come with a coupon book with a legit $200 in savings for use during your stay.  Things like free pizzas, free park passes, etc..  I'm not printing money up here by any stretch, but my jaw wouldn't hit the floor if offered these rates.  They go up a good-bit during Christmas.  Lucky for all, we're already sold out.  Even with 300 more rooms than we had last year at this time.

And as to the riff about taking advantage of Season Pass Holders Francois, as I've said in other forums, I don't buy it and you're off base.  When you compare our early rate this year at $649 versus other resorts (and I'll do the math for you, Stowe is $1653, Okemo is $1229, Sugarbush is $1279, Sunday River/Loaf/Loon is $1175 (our Jay/Burke combo early was $699), Stratton is $1669, and Mt Snow (which incl Attitash and Wildcat) $1249. (I've left Killington and Smuggs off the list as extreme ends)  In (or close to) our set, the only competitively priced pass is Smuggs and we can argue about investments into the mountain products, over recent years, until the cows head back.  Suffice to say, it's tough for me to swallow any argument that includes, at $649 an unrestricted Jay Peak Season Pass is overpriced.  Someone will offer that our rates, relative to what they were in the past, have gone up aggressively and they have.  I would counter with the belief that they needed to move up, were justified in being elevated and are still one of the better value options available.  And, a I've mentioned, this is even an area I will look at, going forward, and try to create pricing and product options that provide more flexibility.

And Riv is right, lowering lift ticket prices is certainly no act of pure benevolence on our part though, without the success we've had across other profit lines (lodging and Watperark specifically), I wouldn't be in a position to gamble on a volume play.  When people reason that we're in the middle of nowhere, they forget that 6m Canadians are within 2-2.5 hours of the us.  That's our upside.

I've got a few Challenge questions to answer then will get it back to you all.  Hope you're well and look forward to seeing you this winter.

steve


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 18, 2012)

Steve your brutal honestity is welcomed as always.   the current "administration" at Jay Peak seems to get it.  I only wish you guys was closer than 10 hours from here in Central PA.  

I will totally admit that your additions the past several years, (waterpark, ice rink, Burke) Certainly make a "Family" trip more appealing whereas before Jay would've been a "guys" weekend/trip.


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## Smellytele (Oct 18, 2012)

WWF-VT said:


> Your sarcasm meter must be set too low....I don't care at all about a waterpark at a ski resort



Caught me on a bad day I guess I can usually sniff that out pretty well.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2012)

jaybird said:


> While Jay is a great place to ski, a $10 discount on a day pass moves them no close to any metropolitan area. That's their big issue.
> Even setting aside the 'trip exhaustion factor', $90 of fuel outweighs a ticket price drop. Canada will be the benefactor of this decision.




Maybe it's been already said, but whie your statement is true for American metro areas, Montreal is only 90 minutes away and is a huge market for them.  As said, they take Canadian money at par.


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## Nick (Oct 18, 2012)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Steve your brutal honestity is welcomed as always.   the current "administration" at Jay Peak seems to get it.  I only wish you guys was closer than 10 hours from here in Central PA.



+1. 

I have never skied Jay, but it is SO on my hit list this year 8)


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## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2012)

Steve@jpr said:


> .  They go up a good-bit during Christmas. Lucky for all, we're already sold out. Even with 300 more rooms than we had last year at this time.



Good to have Steve peek in here.  The fact that you have 300 more rooms than last season, and are sold out, really says something.  



> And Riv is right, lowering lift ticket prices is certainly no act of pure benevolence on our part though, without the success we've had across other profit lines (lodging and Watperark specifically), I wouldn't be in a position to gamble on a volume play. When people reason that we're in the middle of nowhere, they forget that 6m Canadians are within 2-2.5 hours of the us. That's our upside.



Pretty much what I figured.  With the new lodging and amenities, they are making a run at places like Tremblant now.  



fbrissette said:


> On the other hand, they increased the prices for season's passes. Strange marketing move.



That was one of my questions as well--how would passholders react to a drop in day prices and how does that reflect on the value of the resort and the product?  I joke that I want Snowbird (and a couple years back Sugarbush) to have their day rates be $100 or more because I selfishly want less day skiers.  :wink:  

Seriously though, is this a one-time adjustment or will it reflect on a new mentality and approach where the ski price can be in fact adjusted based on how the other amenities are doing?  Will the lower price reflect a lower quality experience (think of Tenney a few years back with their what, $99 season pass, and they blew little snow and did not offer much for grooming)?  



jimmywilson69 said:


> Steve your brutal honestity is welcomed as always. the current "administration" at Jay Peak seems to get it. I only wish you guys was closer than 10 hours from here in Central PA.
> 
> I will totally admit that your additions the past several years, (waterpark, ice rink, Burke) Certainly make a "Family" trip more appealing whereas before Jay would've been a "guys" weekend/trip.



FWIW Bill Stenger used to run a ski area in Pennsylvania before he was recruited by MSSI to run Jay Peak...but that was ions ago...


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## fbrissette (Oct 18, 2012)

Steve@jpr said:


> And as to the riff about taking advantage of Season Pass Holders Francois, as I've said in other forums, I don't buy it and you're off base.  When you compare our early rate this year at $649 versus other resorts (and I'll do the math for you, Stowe is $1653, Okemo is $1229, Sugarbush is $1279, Sunday River/Loaf/Loon is $1175 (our Jay/Burke combo early was $699), Stratton is $1669, and Mt Snow (which incl Attitash and Wildcat) $1249. (I've left Killington and Smuggs off the list as extreme ends)  In (or close to) our set, the only competitively priced pass is Smuggs and we can argue about investments into the mountain products, over recent years, until the cows head back.  Suffice to say, it's tough for me to swallow any argument that includes, at $649 an unrestricted Jay Peak Season Pass is overpriced.  Someone will offer that our rates, relative to what they were in the past, have gone up aggressively and they have.  I would counter with the belief that they needed to move up, were justified in being elevated and are still one of the better value options available.  And, a I've mentioned, this is even an area I will look at, going forward, and try to create pricing and product options that provide more flexibility.
> 
> steve



Instead of replying on your Facebook page, I'll do it here.  I guess I did not do a very job of expressing my feelings.

With respect to the season's pass price, I specifically mentioned on both my posts that Jay's season pass is still a great deal.  The price I paid last year was equivalent to 8 full price day tickets, whereas the norm in Quebec is usually between 15 and 20 full price tickets.  Awesome deal.  The deal is still awesome. In my case, the cost of the pass is a drop in the bucket compared to the price of maintaining a second home.

As I've said to many friends, Jay's season pass is way undervalued (Sutton, your closest Quebec competitor, has a season pass that is nearly 50% higher in price, for an inferior product).  I was never complaining about the 'absolute cost'. 

With respect to the cost:  I buy an adult pass within the family rate.  I did get a 70$ increase in price (about a 12% increase) which was offset by two tickets to the pumphouse.  Nevertheless, this is a net rate increase, and I assume that the pumphouse tickets were there to help justify the rate increase, and I also assume that the tickets will not be there next year.

Prior to settling at Jay, I've had season passes at a few other resorts and they went out of their way to make the season pass holders feel like special customers.  Increase my rates while decreasing everybody else's was just unsettling compared to what I was used to. That's it.  That's what this is about. Not money. Everyone gets a gift except your best customers.  May be I'm just too much of a diva.

Otherwise all my friends and neighbors will be very happy to pay less for their tickets when they come visit.  I bring a lot of people to Jay (last season only, 64 person-nights - Jay Peak rentals on the hill, plus quite a few in my condo).  They all get to pay less this year while I pay more.   What do I know.  I'm an engineer.  You are the marketing guy.


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## fbrissette (Oct 18, 2012)

Nick said:


> +1.
> 
> I have never skied Jay, but it is SO on my hit list this year 8)



As I said a while back in a private email, let me know when you come !  I'll tour you around !


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## from_the_NEK (Oct 18, 2012)

fbrissette said:


> As I said a while back in a private email, let me know when you come !  I'll tour you around !


Is this the start of an AlpineZone mini meetup at Jay?


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## JPTracker (Oct 18, 2012)

Steve@jpr said:


> And Riv is right, lowering lift ticket prices is certainly no act of pure benevolence on our part though, without the success we've had across other profit lines (lodging and Watperark specifically)



Steve,

If Jay is doing so well in lodging that they were able to drop lift tickets by $10 why then did the raise the share of rental revenue that they take from home owners from 40% to 45%?  It makes us home owners feel like we are subsidizing the drop in lift tickets.


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## fbrissette (Oct 18, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> Is this the start of an AlpineZone mini meetup at Jay?



I'm in !


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## Nick (Oct 18, 2012)

from_the_NEK said:


> Is this the start of an AlpineZone mini meetup at Jay?



I'm up for skiing with you guys.... gotta do a weekend though, not happening in a day trip!!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2012)

Nick said:


> I'm up for skiing with you guys.... gotta do a weekend though, not happening in a day trip!!
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2



Simple.  You make it a three-day thing.  One at Cannon, one at Burke, one at Jay.


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## Smellytele (Oct 19, 2012)

thetrailboss said:


> Simple.  You make it a three-day thing.  One at Cannon, one at Burke, one at Jay.



I have done that 3 or 4 times - It works out great. Usually do Burke then Jay then Cannon.


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## drjeff (Oct 19, 2012)

In one sense if you want a basic idea about what the market will tolerate with respect to ticket prices.  Take a rough look at what theme parks are charging for a day.  Since it's basically the same discretionary income of it's customers that theme parks and ski areas are both targeting.

When I was down with my family in Orlando about 2 weeks ago.  Adult 1 day admissions were in the $75 to $90 range (more if you wanted to add some "perks" such as extra parks, fast pass lines, etc).  The parks were pretty crowded, so those price points work.  Sure, just like with multiday ski area tickets, the price per day goes down, there are "locals" discounts, lodging discounts, etc., and I'll fully give you that probably 95% of the folks in the parks aren't anything resembling a semi regular skier/rider,  but they're still making the choice to spend $X per day of their discretionary income on a day of fun and entertainment, which is exactly the same descsion that so many people make when they choose to go skiing/riding for a day too.

Jay's choice with their ticket costs this year, and Steve Wright's HONEST answer as to what some of the major factors were to led that choice being made (other revenue sources at the area) is exactly why there's a bit of hypocrisy when many folks who continuously decry higher and higher pass prices each year, but yet don't spend anything other than the cost of a lift ticket at the ski area.  It ALL matters in the end.  That $5 burger and $5 beer in the lodge, well that DOES have an effect on what lift tickets will cost. It really is that simple when it comes down to it


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## fbrissette (Oct 19, 2012)

drjeff said:


> Jay's choice with their ticket costs this year, and Steve Wright's HONEST answer as to what some of the major factors were to led that choice being made (other revenue sources at the area) is exactly why there's a bit of hypocrisy when many folks who continuously decry higher and higher pass prices each year, but yet don't spend anything other than the cost of a lift ticket at the ski area.  It ALL matters in the end.  That $5 burger and $5 beer in the lodge, well that DOES have an effect on what lift tickets will cost. It really is that simple when it comes down to it



I never complained about the increase in price.  I expect the price of a pass to go up and to reflect an increase in operation costs, as well as to reflect the investments made to better my skiing experience.   

This was posted by Steve Wright in March on the 'Real Jay Peak ski report'.

The "12%" was an increase off of last year's pre-season rate which,incidentally, was the same rate as the year prior. As much as we'd like to keep rates flat every year, it seems our suppliers-those providing electricity, foodstuffs, etc., don't share the same ideology.

Absolutely zero problem with this.  I thought the increase was reasonable and that the value was still awesome. I certainly expect a steep hike when the West Bowl opens up. 

My beef is as follow:  The Jay Peak homeowners in Jay's rental program got a 5% hike in Jay Peak's cut (as mentioned by JPTracker), on the basis that costs (especially marketing) were on the increase.  Season passes went up no matter how they spin it (I got the receipts to prove it).  And then, several months later we get the '_hey folks, we made so much more money than planned that we are going to decrease ticket prices by 15%_'.   

I totally get that they are trying to get more people to come and spend money on the waterpark and other great amenities. Families that come for the first time are blown away by the place and do in fact come back.  I just don't understand why Steve is surprised that homeowners and season pass holders are not totally pleased with measures that will put more people on the hill, and that are partly subsidized by their own fee increase.  That's it.


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## Nick (Oct 19, 2012)

can you rent out property yourself, or is it to avoid the hassle? What about new sites like Airbnb or similar?


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## fbrissette (Oct 19, 2012)

Nick said:


> can you rent out property yourself, or is it to avoid the hassle? What about new sites like Airbnb or similar?


Yes.  A lot of owners rent directly using sites like VRBO.  Jay peak strength is being able to provide waterpark and ski passes in their packages with little extra cost to them.   Home owners have to factor that into their rates.


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## Steve@jpr (Oct 20, 2012)

Sorry FB, but I'm not exactly sure 'Absolutely zero problem with this' accurately characterizes your response to paying more for your season pass this year.  Though, as usual, it's possible/probable that I'm missing something here.

And as to a relationship between an additional 5% being asked of homeowners in our rental program and a direct or indirect pass-along through less expensive lift tickets, that's not at all the case.  As I've said here, despite hitting the cutting cutting room floor in your position, lowering lift tickets is by no means a benevolent play--it's in place to increase volume.  And we think that will happen.

You may feel that an additional 5% isn't fair.  Unsurprisingly, I have a different take.  The 60:40 split has been in place for more than 20 years. In the past 5 years alone, our marketing spends (on behalf of the resort and homeowners in the rental program alike) have gone up by a factor of 6.  That's so far beyond unreal, I find it crazy I have to mention that it's unreal.  But there you go.  As well, the best way to gauge the importance, and thus value, of the Rental Program, might be to do it yourself.  Market your unit yourself.  Sell it yourself. See what it costs to buy lift tickets and waterpark passes at rack rate before including them in your 'package'.  Cover the costs of cleaning it, replacing linens and incidentals (which, as you know yet don't mention, are now being covered by the resort), cover the costs of a central reservation service, a front desk staff, a security staff and other associated departments that your guest comes in contact with during the course of their stay), and then you'll be in a much better position to gauge whether the additional 5% makes sense. If it does, come back into the program.  If it doesn't, keep doing it yourself.  

Seems like a good test to me.



fbrissette said:


> I never complained about the increase in price.  I expect the price of a pass to go up and to reflect an increase in operation costs, as well as to reflect the investments made to better my skiing experience.
> 
> This was posted by Steve Wright in March on the 'Real Jay Peak ski report'.
> 
> ...


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## JPTracker (Oct 20, 2012)

Steve,

Thanks for the response. I guess what got me was a statement in your first post:



Steve@jpr said:


> And Riv is right, lowering lift ticket prices is certainly no act of pure benevolence on our part though, *without the success we've had across other profit lines (lodging and Watperark specifically*), I wouldn't be in a position to gamble on a volume play.  When people reason that we're in the middle of nowhere, they forget that 6m Canadians are within 2-2.5 hours of the us.  That's our upside.
> 
> steve



This made it seem like profits from the Water Park and Lodging was subsidizing the lift tickets. Now that you clarified this and that you are lowering prices in hopes of increase volume to increase profits overall I get it but it didn't go over that way at first.


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## Steve@jpr (Oct 20, 2012)

Right JPT, but if you had gone ahead and decided to bold the second half of my quote--'*I wouldn't be in a position to gamble on a volume play*', it becomes pretty clear that the financial flexibility is allowing us to gamble- not purely being based on as savings.  Sorry I didn't communicate/you didn't receive that.  


JPTracker said:


> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the response. I guess what got me was a statement in your first post:
> 
> ...


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## billski (Oct 20, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> So, a 1st time visit to Stowe would be $102 out of pocket now then yes?  IIRC I had to buy an RFID card when I went last year.  You could get your $10 back at the end of the day, but even with that I'm sure there's a bit of sticker shock shelling out $102 the first time you go.



IMO, very few first timers come for just a day.  They are looking for a demographic of 2 40's-ish parents with two kids.  You always get a break on multi day tickets and last I checked, even a better deal from the off-slope lodging around the valley.


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## fbrissette (Oct 20, 2012)

Steve@jpr said:


> Sorry FB, but I'm not exactly sure 'Absolutely zero problem with this' accurately characterizes your response to paying more for your season pass this year.  Though, as usual, it's possible/probable that I'm missing something here.



Put this on the language barrier.  It seems that I have a hard time expressing my thoughts in english in this particular instance.  It is not about money and never was.   I would have been the first one to tell you that the price of season passes was too low, when compared to the price of day tickets, and when compared to the competition. The frustration (and that's too strong of a word cause I'm far from losing sleep over it), comes from the mixed message.  To some of your customers you tell:'_operating costs are up so we have to raise your rates_'. while you tell other customers '_income are on the rise, so we'll cut your rates_'.  You don't owe us any explanation on the rationale behind your decisions, but in the absence of any such explanation, the feeling everyone got (and I have discussed this with just a few passhodlers to be honest) is that we subsidize day trippers.  Increase my rates to open up the west bowl and that's fine.  Increase my rates to change lifts and that's fine.  Increase my rates because the cost of snowmaking has been up, or because you made snow late in the season and that's fine.  Increase my rates to lower the rates of day trippers ?  That I don't like.   Hope this is clearer cause this is my last attempt !



Steve@jpr said:


> Market your unit yourself. Sell it yourself. See what it costs to buy lift tickets and waterpark passes at rack rate before including them in your 'package'. Cover the costs of cleaning it, replacing linens and incidentals (which, as you know yet don't mention, are now being covered by the resort), cover the costs of a central reservation service, a front desk staff, a security staff and other associated departments that your guest comes in contact with during the course of their stay), and then you'll be in a much better position to gauge whether the additional 5% makes sense. If it does, come back into the program. If it doesn't, keep doing it yourself. Seems like a good test to me.




You will be surprised, but i do agree with you.  I was talking on behalf of other homeowners (friends and neighbours) who are not very happy.  I do not rent my unit and will never rent it.  We are having way too much fun as it is, and having to store my personal stuff and empty the fridge every time I leave makes little sense to me.  

It appears that quite a few homeowners are gonna go on their own.  We'll see if they come back. I think this would be a very good year to stick with Jay's rental pool.   With many units opting out, it's a gimme that occupancy rates will increase.


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## riverc0il (Oct 20, 2012)

And this is why you'll never see another day ticket price drop any where in New England ever again.


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## Steve@jpr (Oct 20, 2012)

Post of the month to Riv.

I appreciate the update Francois.  Like any business, prices are going to up and down across various products and categories.  Sounds like you understand that the SP needed to/was justified in going up and that, somehow, you're relating the drop in lift tickets as somehow being subsidized by an incremental 5% in rental income.  Nice to hear that you , now, understand it is not.  And on a side note, all but 9 homeowners have decided to come back into the rental pool.  Not quite the predicated landslide, but a few certainly.  We hope there's plenty of snow, this season, to motivate visits into every possible corner--regardless of who manages it.

sw



riverc0il said:


> And this is why you'll never see another day ticket price drop any where in New England ever again.


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## fbrissette (Oct 20, 2012)

Steve@jpr said:


> Post of the month to Riv.
> 
> IWe hope there's plenty of snow, this season...
> 
> sw



This is definitely the one thing we will all agree upon !

Now, if you could just do something about that planned ski run past Timbuktu...


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## fbrissette (Oct 20, 2012)

riverc0il said:


> And this is why you'll never see another day ticket price drop any where in New England ever again.


No good deed goes unpunished !


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## playoutside (Oct 21, 2012)

gmcunni said:


> thanks, looking for some to share with another family for a long weekend, will check out MC.



A group of us rented this home a couple years ago for a long weekend.  it was a great house for our group.  owner was easy to deal with too

http://www.killiam.net/


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> One of my best friends worked Stowe Ski School for several years.  Taught Steve's kids how to ski.  After 4 days of having Steve's kids all day in a lessons the bastard didn't even leave a tip.  :lol:



This was probably the late-90s to early-00s, right?   That's when I'd see him there, and I was almost always based at Spruce (where the kiddies would be dropped off).


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2012)

BenedictGomez said:


> This was probably the late-90s to early-00s, right?   That's when I'd see him there, and I was almost always based at Spruce (where the kiddies would be dropped off).



correct.

2000-2001 season


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## ScottySkis (Oct 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> correct.
> 
> 2000-2001 season





Rich people are kind of dumb when it comes to tipping or taking care of their employees in my experience.


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## bobbutts (Oct 22, 2012)

ride and ski card

"$10 off lift tickets, 7 days a week, & holidays.
PLUS four 2-for-1 coupons good any day, non-holiday"
*
*


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## jaytrem (Oct 22, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Rich people are kind of dumb when it comes to tipping or taking care of their employees in my experience.



So Mr. Pink really doesn't tip?  That's pretty funny.


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## from_the_NEK (Oct 22, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *deadheadskier*
> 
> One of my best friends worked Stowe Ski School for several years.  Taught Steve's kids how to ski.  After 4 days of having Steve's kids all day in a lessons the bastard didn't even leave a tip.  :lol:





BenedictGomez said:


> This was probably the late-90s to early-00s, right?   That's when I'd see him there, and I was almost always based at Spruce (where the kiddies would be dropped off).



Just to clarify this quote taken from a couple of pages back. This is referring to Steve Buschemi and NOT Steve from Jay Peak Resort.   :razz:


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2012)

One thing not mentioned in this thread is Jay's single day tickets are now cheaper than Burke's by $4-$6.  I wonder if we will see a number of discount programs at Burke this season as well.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> One thing not mentioned in this thread is *Jay's single day tickets are now cheaper than Burke's by $4-$6.*  I wonder if we will see a number of discount programs at Burke this season as well.



Nice catch.  That's doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.


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## Steve@jpr (Oct 22, 2012)

You're likely to see adjustments on both sides going forward; possibly not in this transition year but going forward nonetheless.  The Burke Lift ticket is $68/$70 and our window is $69 so not much difference.  The savings portion from us ($6 off the window rate from last year) really kicks in when you reload (at $64).  The justification there is that we offer the ability to go online, reload and go direct to lift and we need to try and migrate more people online to do just that.



BenedictGomez said:


> Nice catch.  That's doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.


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## mlkrgr (Oct 22, 2012)

My take is who buys a lift ticket without buying lodging are generally more price sensitive. These are people with a season pass at another mountain, and having a low day ticket price is of benefit to encourage people to try the mountain, or they just can afford to do a day trip. If they have a good experience, of course, the word will spread. And it's good that JP is trying to reflect that day tickets are a bit less of a value to day trippers due to the extra time it takes to get there (can very well be as much as 1 hr less than other mountains in terms of the amount of time you ski).


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## riverc0il (Oct 22, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> One thing not mentioned in this thread is Jay's single day tickets are now cheaper than Burke's by $4-$6.  I wonder if we will see a number of discount programs at Burke this season as well.




That is pretty crazy. I assume they are still operating under two different managements and sales teams. Who knows if there is coordination or not on pricing beyond the season pass. 

They are two very different markets right now, though. I can't imagine they will bring Burke's down as well.


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