# Ski Recommendation: 50% Bumps, 30% Natural Snow Trails, 20% Groomers



## Greg (Feb 4, 2007)

Possibly looking to expand the quiver (actually looking for a new primary ski). Looking for some recommendations for skis to demo. I'm currently on 2005-06 Volkl Unlimited AC3s which I like, but are a bit heavy. I feel as though they are bogging me down in the bumps which is where I spend roughly half my time. I spend probably another 30% of my time on natural snow trails where I really love the AC3s. The final 20% of my time is spent on the groomers, but mostly this is when the other 80% of the desired terrain is not available (early season, or when skiing with others that prefer cruising.)

Even as a groomer ski, I'm not concerned with a ski that rips big arcs as I don't normally ski that way. Basically, I'm looking for a nimble ski that rocks in the moguls, is stable on natural snow terrain, and allows me to grip the groomers when making short, snappy turns. I'm more of a one ski quiver kind of guy. Even my rock skis have not seen any use. When I get new skis, the old ones, no matter how usable they still are, see little use. Given all that, anyone have any recommendations?


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## bvibert (Feb 5, 2007)

I got some sweet Rossi's that I'll trade ya for your Volkl's.


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## JimG. (Feb 5, 2007)

Greg said:


> Possibly looking to expand the quiver (actually looking for a new primary ski). Looking for some recommendations for skis to demo. I'm currently on 2005-06 Volkl Unlimited AC3s which I like, but are a bit heavy. I feel as though they are bogging me down in the bumps which is where I spend roughly half my time. I spend probably another 30% of my time on natural snow trails where I really love the AC3s. The final 20% of my time is spent on the groomers, but mostly this is when the other 80% of the desired terrain is not available (early season, or when skiing with others that prefer cruising.)
> 
> Even as a groomer ski, I'm not concerned with a ski that rips big arcs as I don't normally ski that way. Basically, I'm looking for a nimble ski that rocks in the moguls, is stable on natural snow terrain, and allows me to grip the groomers when making short, snappy turns. I'm more of a one ski quiver kind of guy. Even my rock skis have not seen any use. When I get new skis, the old ones, no matter how usable they still are, see little use. Given all that, anyone have any recommendations?



Demo the Fischer RX8 if you can find any...they sold out of the 170cm length really quick.

These are race bred slalom skis. I love them. They are a great trade off for all the various things you say you want them for. Snappy and quick turners. Solid edge grip on hard snow/ice. Happy at speed shy of all out downhill. Love them in bumps, but not the best zipperlining ski because of the sidecut. Still extermely comfy and workable in the bumps.
I've skied better since I bought them, probably the best review I can give.


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 5, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Demo the Fischer RX8 if you can find any...they sold out of the 170cm length really quick.
> 
> These are race bred slalom skis. I love them. They are a great trade off for all the various things you say you want them for. Snappy and quick turners. Solid edge grip on hard snow/ice. Happy at speed shy of all out downhill. Love them in bumps, but not the best zipperlining ski because of the sidecut. Still extermely comfy and workable in the bumps.
> I've skied better since I bought them, probably the best review I can give.




Wow...I could have sworn you were going to recommend Twin Tips.  Your old pair for sale?


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## Greg (Feb 5, 2007)

The Dynastar Legend 8000 used to get a lot of praise as an all mountain ski. How are the Legends in the bumps? I demoed the 4800s once and thought it was a very stable ski, but not very lively. Perhaps that's just what I'm looking for in the bumps though...

Again, if I can find a ski that performs as well as the AC3 on the natural snow/cruddy terrain, but is lighter and more nimble in the bumps, I'll be happy. Maybe I'm asking too much from one ski...


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## JimG. (Feb 5, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Wow...I could have sworn you were going to recommend Twin Tips.  Your old pair for sale?



Nope, they've got the Freerides on them and they're tuned and ready to go.

Twintips make good bump skis, but I got tired of working so hard on icier surfaces. The RX8's eat up ice with no effort. And they're still a nice quick ski for bumping.


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## jack97 (Feb 5, 2007)

Greg,
 iirc, you had the old k2 xt. what was wrong with that?


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## Greg (Feb 5, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Greg,
> iirc, you had the old k2 xt. what was wrong with that?



Axis X Pro. They are also a very heavy ski and stiffer than the AC3. I'm down to 170 cm on the AC3s and the K2s are 182 cm.


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## jack97 (Feb 5, 2007)

Greg said:


> Axis X Pro. They are also a very heavy ski and stiffer than the AC3. I'm down to 170 cm on the AC3s and the K2s are 182 cm.



OK, reason why I asked was I thought the k2 axis family was less heavy, I never demoed the ac3 and have no comparison. 

Funny, I got a axis x for dirt cheap and put on a marker bindings, doesn't seem that heavy to me. I thought the pro had a built in plate for stiffness and could be the reason why. Or maybe the bindings themselves.

I've been noticing the newer all mountain models have a lot of side cut; mainly a big shovel. Not sure if I like the idea of taking them in the bumps. I been thinking about getting some of the old rossi bandits (04-05), they are selling them cheap and brand new at ebay. Can't get it past my wife yet and my skis aren't bang up yet.


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 5, 2007)

Greg said:


> Again, if I can find a ski that performs as well as the AC3 on the natural snow/cruddy terrain, but is lighter and more nimble in the bumps, I'll be happy. Maybe I'm asking too much from one ski...



I'm cross-posting now.  I mentioned the Solomon Tornadoes to Grassi.  They're similar to the AC3 but have a bit more flex and are lighter.  Give em a try.


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## JimG. (Feb 5, 2007)

jack97 said:


> I've been noticing the newer all mountain models have a lot of side cut; mainly a big shovel. Not sure if I like the idea of taking them in the bumps.



I debated this point for a long time...the RX8's have a huge shovel, 116mm. But I'm skiing them shorter (170cm) than anything I've ever skied before. And they're a nimble, quick ski and move quickly from one turn to the next. As long as you stay centered, they work just fine in the bumps.

I debated the fact that they have a sheet of titanium in them too...but other than making them scary stable in crud and busted up crap, that hasn't been an issue at all. These skis really do amaze me.


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## jack97 (Feb 5, 2007)

JimG. said:


> As long as you stay centered, they work just fine in the bumps.



Just wanted your opinion; Do they have a wide sweet spot? Are they forgiving off centered? 

I've been meaning to demo them, should do it soon, I figure they will get obsoleted soon.


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## JimG. (Feb 5, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Do they have a wide sweet spot? Are they forgiving off centered?



No.

These are race bred skis and they demand your attention. They can get twitchy if you aren't on top of them, and even though they are decent for GS turns, don't try to overhold an edge or they will start to skid on you. They like to turn alot.

Particularly true in bumps...get off center and they will not perform well for you. Get in the backseat and you'll rocket out of your line. I think part of the reason I'm skiing better with them is because they are so demanding of your skills. You've got to stay on top of them.

If you do, they provide much reward.


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## riverc0il (Feb 5, 2007)

Greg said:


> The Dynastar Legend 8000 used to get a lot of praise as an all mountain ski. How are the Legends in the bumps? I demoed the 4800s once and thought it was a very stable ski, but not very lively. Perhaps that's just what I'm looking for in the bumps though...


when i demoed a few years back, i greatly preferred the 8000s vs the 724s (i have been on the AX3 and 724 Pro) which i know have been change for the ACx line up, but the difference was quite significant in the light and nimble catagory. i was originally a volkl man before switching to the 8000s when my preference turned from groomed to natural snow. the 8000s don't hold as good an edge on the hard pack as the volkls and are down right miserable when it gets scraped, but i spend so little time on groomed it doesn't matter and the 8000s still carve amazingly good arcs when the snow is good packed powder or fresh machine groomed. for the bumps, the 8000s are nice but not a bump ski. i don't know if changing skis to another all mountain mid-fat is going to be worth the money/trade value. if you think you totally have the wrong ski, it would be worth while to demo day the current mid-fats. but if you are really looking for an edge in the bumps, either a bump ski or a lighter weight foam core slalom ski would be better options. i have mentioned this before, but your experience with the 4800 should not reflect on the 8000, they are radically different skis, i down right hated the 4800 when i demoed them.



Greg said:


> Again, if I can find a ski that performs as well as the AC3 on the natural snow/cruddy terrain, but is lighter and more nimble in the bumps, I'll be happy. Maybe I'm asking too much from one ski...


i think you may be asking too much for one ski. volkl makes a very heavy ski and their binding system doesn't help much. so there are many lighter skis out there. the trend has been heavier skis and beefier system bindings. if you want lighter, there are many good options. i am not familiar with the rossi line, but that would be a good place to start. the dynastar legend line is wood core but a significant difference in weight compared to the volkl, and in generally a much more nimble ski. 

your thread topic is 50% bumps, 30% natural, 20% groomers. if you reversed your bumps and natural snow percents, the legend 8000 would be absolutely one of the best skis i could think of for the job. but the qualities that make the best bump skis and the best natural snow skis tend to be contradictory, so you either go with a multi ski quiver or make the infamous compromise that most skiers need to make when picking equipment as the ultimate one ski quiver has not been invented, and i dare say never will. i do understand the desire for a one ski quiver and have backed off my own previous desire to have three skis for each purpose. i never take out my p50s any more for groomers, but i do appreciate having one ski for everyday and a phatie for the big snow days. all my skis are rock skis from day one, so i also agree on not having a rock ski designation as being worth while.


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## Dirk109 (Feb 5, 2007)

The 07-08 Head SuperShape Magnum could be your ski. 71mm under foot. Skied one last week for the 1st time. One of the best skis I have skied.


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## jack97 (Feb 6, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> .... but the qualities that make the best bump skis and the best natural snow skis tend to be contradictory, so you either go with a multi ski quiver or make the infamous compromise that most skiers need to make when picking equipment as the ultimate one ski quiver has not been invented, and i dare say never will. i do understand the desire for a one ski quiver and have backed off my own previous desire to have three skis for each purpose....



Riv got a point. It seems that the all mtn and mid fats have more shape and have built in riser at the waist.  In addition stiffness, something you want in the woods and crud. Trends that might it bothersome (read not impossible) in the bumps. In addition to looking into rossi and dynastar,  should look into Fischer AMC line it has been getting good review. 

Another factor is how you skiing the bumps presently and how you want to ski them in the future. Maintain a more turn centric approach, incorporating a lot of A&E, slamming or hopping. IMO, each has it place but each places specific requirements in the ski.


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## salida (Feb 6, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> but the qualities that make the best bump skis and the best natural snow skis tend to be contradictory, so you either go with a multi ski quiver or make the infamous compromise that most skiers need to make when picking equipment as the ultimate one ski quiver has not been invented, and i dare say never will.



I'm with River on this one.  If you are indeed serious about this sport, its quite difficult to kill all the birds with one stone, so to speak.  Skiing has so many facets that you really can't accomplish with one ski.  

It sounds like you are happy with your AC3's everywhere but in the bumps.  If this is the case, then buy a bump ski, and use both pairs of skis... Greg, I know you stated that once you buy a new pair of skis you hardly use the old ones.  However, I think it could both help your skiing and make for more enjoyable turns when you have the proper equipment to ski varied types of terrain.  This being said, its damn fun to have an armada of skis to choose from!


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## Hawkshot99 (Feb 6, 2007)

salida said:


> It sounds like you are happy with your AC3's everywhere but in the bumps.  If this is the case, then buy a bump ski, and use both pairs of skis... Greg, I know you stated that once you buy a new pair of skis you hardly use the old ones.  However, I think it could both help your skiing and make for more enjoyable turns when you have the proper equipment to ski varied types of terrain.  This being said, its damn fun to have an armada of skis to choose from!



While a quiver is nice, it's also nice to have 1 ski that you can do it all on.  You dont know exactly what the conditions will be when you get there.  And if you have a bump ski on, what if you decide you want to go do some high speed groomers or something else.


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## Greg (Feb 6, 2007)

salida said:


> It sounds like you are happy with your AC3's everywhere but in the bumps.  If this is the case, then buy a bump ski, and use both pairs of skis... Greg, I know you stated that once you buy a new pair of skis you hardly use the old ones.  However, I think it could both help your skiing and make for more enjoyable turns when you have the proper equipment to ski varied types of terrain.  This being said, its damn fun to have an armada of skis to choose from!



This is accurate. The AC3 is great on the terrain I truly prefer - i.e.natural snow trails with crud, powder, soft moguls, etc. In icey firm bumps - not so good. Still manageable, just wish I had something lighter and a tad softer. As a SNE skier, hard icey bumps are the most commonly found surface off the groomers. The problem with strictly a bump ski is I don't want to be washing out and struggling to/from the bump fields. Again, I don't need something that's going to rip high speed arcs, but rather something that performs pretty well making short snappy turns in the LSGR on the sides of the groomers, while being light and nimble in the bumps.

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I saw the old Bandit X's mentioned in this thread which I always heard was good in the bumps and on the groomed stuff. I wonder if a flat mounted Rossi B1 might be a good ski. Foam core, I know, but I'm not a heavy guy (165 lbs) so I doubt I'd overski it.


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## jack97 (Feb 6, 2007)

Greg said:


> Thanks for the suggestions so far. I saw the old Bandit X's mentioned in this thread which I always heard was good in the bumps and on the groomed stuff. I wonder if a flat mounted Rossi B1 might be a good ski. Foam core, I know, but I'm not a heavy guy (165 lbs) so I doubt I'd overski it.




Greg, 

  If you are going to follow this sage advice ;-) , go for the B1, 04-05 or earlier models. The later models are very soft, might compromise edge hold or stabilty. I demo them back then and I thought it handled grooms and hardpack well, I would have bought them if I found a good deal. The bindings was just a standard demo mount, I didn't recall anything fancy about them. In terms of a flat mount, I would try to shop around and look for a good deal, the fortunate thing is that all the pricey stuff where the bindings are mounted high are for the race crowds.


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## riverc0il (Feb 6, 2007)

Greg said:


> This is accurate. The AC3 is great on the terrain I truly prefer - i.e.natural snow trails with crud, powder, soft moguls, etc. In icey firm bumps - not so good. Still manageable, just wish I had something lighter and a tad softer. As a SNE skier, hard icey bumps are the most commonly found surface off the groomers.


ah, i think i have identified your problem. hard icy bumps suck no matter what ski you slide on ;-) i know, i know... not much to choose from in SNE. but that may be more of an issue than your skis is what i am getting at. i used to ski hard icy bumps at cannon all the time. i have no tolerance for that crap any more, i would rather ski groomers than bash scraped down crappy bumps.


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## Dirk109 (Feb 6, 2007)

What about an Atomic Nomad?


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## JimG. (Feb 7, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> ah, i think i have identified your problem. hard icy bumps suck no matter what ski you slide on ;-) i know, i know... not much to choose from in SNE. but that may be more of an issue than your skis is what i am getting at. i used to ski hard icy bumps at cannon all the time. i have no tolerance for that crap any more, i would rather ski groomers than bash scraped down crappy bumps.



Well I agree with the hard icy bumps sucking part; but assume we're going to ski them anyway.

I'm older now and just can't zipperline hard icy bumps anymore...it's too hard on my body. I need some turn shape and a little carve when conditions are like that. That's exactly why I went back to a race bred ski with more sidecut. At 170cm I can turn those suckers so fast it doesn't really look like I'm carving much, but I do just enough to keep speed under control and not pound myself to death.

I could not do that with my old Dynastar twin tips...it was ski the zipper or don't ski bumps. Those skis were not great at carving even a little bit, just enough to get by. And that isn't enough for me anymore. I'm much happier with my new skis, and I still have my older ones for soft snow/spring bump days. And my old ski will be just perfect for when those days arrive.

My point is that the choice of ski does make a big difference even if conditions are uniformly crappy.


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## jack97 (Feb 7, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Well I agree with the hard icy bumps sucking part; but assume we're going to ski them anyway.
> 
> I'm older now and just can't zipperline hard icy bumps anymore...it's too hard on my body. I need some turn shape and a little carve when conditions are like that. That's exactly why I went back to a race bred ski with more sidecut. At 170cm I can turn those suckers so fast it doesn't really look like I'm carving much, but I do just enough to keep speed under control and not pound myself to death.
> 
> ...



Makes perfect sense on why you choose the rx8, get the most out the ski based on conditions and how you want to ski them.


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## JimG. (Feb 7, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Makes perfect sense on why you choose the rx8, get the most out the ski based on conditions and how you want to ski them.



I really believe your choice of ski is most important when conditions are firm. Because that is when all of your technical flaws and limitations are amplified.


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## jack97 (Feb 7, 2007)

*Yet another soft all mountain ski*

Greg,

  Totally forgot about this other ski; K2 apache x. It's still new that you might be able to demo it to see if you like. IIRC it does come in flat (no integrated bindings). Supposely the k2's axis series has a wooden constuction core (tri axial) that allows a softer flex but still mantains torsional stiffness. Don't know if the new series follows the same construction just a thought if you're gun shy about buying a rossi b1 without demoing it. 

FWIW, when I take my volkl g3 out in the firm bumps, my ankles will feel pain by the middle of the day. With the softer k2, I feel no pain, well at least in the ankles.


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## Greg (Feb 8, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> ah, i think i have identified your problem. hard icy bumps suck no matter what ski you slide on ;-) i know, i know... not much to choose from in SNE. but that may be more of an issue than your skis is what i am getting at. i used to ski hard icy bumps at cannon all the time. i have no tolerance for that crap any more, i would rather ski groomers than bash scraped down crappy bumps.





JimG. said:


> Well I agree with the hard icy bumps sucking part; but assume we're going to ski them anyway.



Some nice manmade coated the bumps last night which allowed me to let loose a little bit. I think the sliggishness I've been feeling up to this point may have been more of a result of me sheepishly navigating the icey bumps we've been on up to this point. The better surface allowed me to let them run faster which resulted in a bit more dramatic A&E. I guess practicing on icey moguls does pay off when you get on some that are a bit more forgiving.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 8, 2007)

I think you are asking to much from one ski. For how much you love the bumps and how often you ski them I think you should have a "bump" ski. Just take both skies when you head up...For bump lovers a bump ski is mandatory IMO.


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## Greg (Feb 8, 2007)

ALLSKIING said:


> I think you are asking to much from one ski. For how much you love the bumps and how often you ski them I think you should have a "bump" ski. Just take both skies when you head up...For bump lovers a bump ski is mandatory IMO.



My issue with that is flailing around getting to/from the bump fields. For night skiing at Sundown where I hit the moguls exclusively, yeah a bump ski would be great. But at other places it would still be nice to have a ski that's manageable outside the bumps. In reality, I really don't *need* something else; I just like to try new equipment, I guess. And as we all know it's really the operator, not the equipment.


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## snoseek (Feb 10, 2007)

It seems like a lot of skis have x-tra weight added on with built in binding systems and whatever there new technology is. I ski a 177 4 frnt stl, and they are so light and nimble. 82 in the middle make them the perfect e.c. one ski quiver. They do great on hardpack, and while i have older g.s. skis, i never use them. These skis are constructed similar to how skis were made 20 years ago (flat tops, sidewalls, wood core) but with a sidecut. sometimes less is more.


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## hrstrat57 (Feb 10, 2007)

*karma?*

Greg,

I love the RX 8's have both 170 and 175.....

but I'm wondering for what you want to do perhaps try Volkl Karma's? I'm not a bumper, those days are gone, but I tried em last year in 177 and loved em on groomers and a bit of boot top deep.....

My thoughts were I would have liked em better in 184.....I am 6' 185lbs

I've heard some good things about Rossi scratch too, but haven't been on em


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