# Saddleback Maine



## Talldrink (Jan 5, 2021)

Has anyone skied this since opening after a 5 year closure.  Its a magical place. I've signed up to go in February....been way tooo long....


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## Nick (Jan 5, 2021)

Talldrink said:


> Has anyone skied this since opening after a 5 year closure.  Its a magical place. I've signed up to go in February....been way tooo long....



I haven't skied Saddleback, I was going to after one of our AZ summits but never made it over. I've heard it is excellent and glad to hear it's opening.


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## Newpylong (Jan 5, 2021)

Yep, back in full force. Great experience.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 5, 2021)

Have four nights and three days of skiing booked late February.  Got a really nice four bedroom house on the lake walking distance to town for $330 a night all in, which I thought was a great deal.  Can't wait


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## Newpylong (Jan 5, 2021)

Damn we may need to bump the rent up on our house in Errol. 4 bedroom on the lake and we do like $250/night. But it's Errol not Rangeley ha.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 5, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Damn we may need to bump the rent up on our house in Errol. 4 bedroom on the lake and we do like $250/night. But it's Errol not Rangeley ha.


Before taxes and fees it was $275/night.

I paid the same last winter for a two bedroom apartment in downtown Stowe.  

Between the cheap house, the $135 three day ticket special last summer and excitement for SB coming back it was a pretty easy decision to go outside of Epic for school vacation week


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## Talldrink (Jan 6, 2021)

We rented end of January. Its $500 night. We hemmed and hawed but pulled the trigger and took 3 nights....I'm really thrilled to go again!


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## Smellytele (Jan 6, 2021)

Talldrink said:


> We rented end of January. Its $500 night. We hemmed and hawed but pulled the trigger and took 3 nights....I'm really thrilled to go again!


For 500 a night, should be nice and right on the mtn.


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## Talldrink (Jan 6, 2021)

Yes, its Ski in/out. Its a lot $ but I've literally been waiting since this place closed. Wish they had a mountain cam and a chat site to discuss conditions.


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## Smellytele (Jan 6, 2021)

Talldrink said:


> Yes, its Ski in/out. Its a lot $ but I've literally been waiting since this place closed. Wish they had a mountain cam and a chat site to discuss conditions.


Love the place. Give us a trip report of your visit!


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## Talldrink (Jan 6, 2021)

I will, maybe daily reports and even more!!


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## KustyTheKlown (Jan 6, 2021)

the owners of that house have probably been longing for the day they can charge $500 a night for it again

yay for saddleback. cant wait to make a trip up that way.


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## Talldrink (Jan 6, 2021)

Hopefully someday I'll be that guy that owns the house


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## deadheadskier (Jan 6, 2021)

We chose in town vs on mountain as my wife doesn't ski and my two year old daughter doesn't yet.  So, I wanted something in Rangeley where they could walk to town.  Having nice lake views is a bonus.

This is the rental if folks are looking for a place to rent up there at some point. 

Check out this Vrbo rental:


			https://t.vrbo.io/J2cnWltFPcb


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## Newpylong (Jan 6, 2021)

I am sure it will be a nice trip. At this point going anywhere is a change.


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## Edd (Jan 24, 2021)

Aaaand, they’re 99% open now.

Got a ski in/out place for the 2nd week of March. Really psyched.


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## Vince (Jan 24, 2021)

Skied here for the first time since the reopen on Thursday and Friday. Great time. Groomers a bit wind blown but the natural snow trails were great. Very small crowd both days. probably less than 100 skiers in total on Thurs. Friday a bit more. Great glades and variety of expert terrain. They don't seem to have quite the base that Vermont does. But snow quality was very dry.
Day tix were about $65. The new HSQ is a huge upgrade.


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## darent (Jan 25, 2021)

we skied there the last year they were open, can't wait to get back. makes a great Maine ski trip SB and  the Loaf


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## tnt1234 (Jan 25, 2021)

That place looks great by the trail map.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Arrived to Rangeley last night for what we were hoping was three days of skiing.  Looks like we need to find an alternative for Thursday.









						Lift Operations Notice
					






					www.saddlebackmaine.com
				




I guess Saddleback really needs to get the short double and T Bar back running.  Seems pretty unreasonable that maintenance needs on their HSQ results in shutting the whole mountain down; especially during a school vacation week.  

Beautiful views from the pad we rented though.


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## Edd (Feb 23, 2021)

Ouch.


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## jaytrem (Feb 23, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Arrived to Rangeley last night for what we were hoping was three days of skiing.  Looks like we need to find an alternative for Thursday.


 
$25 Thursdays at Black!


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

Never skied Maine, Sunday River/ sugarloaf are 6 hour drives from my house,   Now with Waterville valley on the pass, i can hit that on the way to saddleback and I have the mountain collective, I can also hit sugar loaf,  I know this will cause a lot of swearing, but their is a reason Vermont has the most skier visits in New England, they have the best mtns, just like Colorado has the most skier visits, they have the best mtns, until recently Vermont was number two in the country for skier visit, just recently passed by Utah.


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Never skied Maine, Sunday River/ sugarloaf are 6 hour drives from my house,   Now with Waterville valley on the pass, i can hit that on the way to saddleback and I have the mountain collective, I can also hit sugar loaf,  I know this will cause a lot of swearing, but their is a reason Vermont has the most skier visits in New England, they have the best mtns, just like Colorado has the most skier visits, they have the best mtns, until recently Vermont was number two in the country for skier visit, just recently passed by Utah.



I'm not sure I agree with that reasoning for having the most skier visits in New England. Some of the resorts in VT that have the highest skier visits in the state aren't even the best mountains in VT, so clearly "best mountain" is not a major determining factor in skier visit numbers. I've never skied Maine either, but Saddleback and Sugarloaf both look like mountains I would absolutely love and probably put at or near the top of my "best mountains" list if I skied them. The problem is they are just too far away. They're both 7+ hours from NJ and even 4+ hours from my VT condo.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

lol @ colorado having the best mountains in the west. that's funny. you're funny, man.

colorado in general, and places like mount snow and okemo, have the highest skier visits because they are easy to travel to and cater to gaper tourists from major population centers. quality of skiing has jack shit to do with it.


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## Killingtime (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Never skied Maine, Sunday River/ sugarloaf are 6 hour drives from my house,   Now with Waterville valley on the pass, i can hit that on the way to saddleback and I have the mountain collective, I can also hit sugar loaf,  I know this will cause a lot of swearing, but their is a reason Vermont has the most skier visits in New England, they have the best mtns, just like Colorado has the most skier visits, they have the best mtns, until recently Vermont was number two in the country for skier visit, just recently passed by Utah.


Sunday River is a fun place. Its worth the drive. Been to Sugarloaf once and the conditions were not the best and half the mountain was closed, but looking forward to going back. Now with Saddleback on the Indy its just more incentive to get back there.


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## slatham (Feb 23, 2021)

Bad timing after the great news of being added in Indy Pass effective immediately.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> lol @ colorado having the best mountains in the west. that's funny. you're funny, man.
> 
> colorado in general, and places like mount snow and okemo, have the highest skier visits because they are easy to travel to and cater to gaper tourists from major population centers. quality of skiing has jack shit to do with it.


I disagree, just swung thru Jackson hole, grand tarraghee, sun valley, big sky, granted it was mid December, and each Mtn but tarraghee was only half open, but the snow, the towns, the views don’t equal Colorado experiences, never  been to Utah or ca yet, but from my experiences Colorado is tough to top, and the skier visits confirm it


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

so you skied a bunch of superior mountains early season with no snow, and haven't even bothered with utah or tahoe or british columbia (and BC is the best skiing, snow, terrain in north america), and you state conclusively that colorado is best? you don't even have the experience to support that opinion. and the main point is that skier visits doesn't equal best skiing. that's ludicrous. mcdonalds makes the best food in america! most diner visits! southern colorado is great when you get off the beaten path, but i-70 is fucking worthless. popular tends to equal bad, expensive, and annoying to deal with.


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> I disagree, just swung thru Jackson hole, grand tarraghee, sun valley, big sky, granted it was mid December, and each Mtn but tarraghee was only half open, but the snow, the towns, the views don’t equal Colorado experiences, never  been to Utah or ca yet, but from my experiences Colorado is tough to top, and the skier visits confirm it


Why do you think skier visits is a metric that represents who is the best? Quantity/volume is not necessarily equal to quality. (that's like saying fast food chains are better than local independent burger joints simply because they sell more burgers).


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## ThatGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

I’d rather ski Whistler-Blackcomb or Revelstoke than any major resort in CO that comes to mind. CO is easy access due to the I-70 corridor and so many Epic/IKON resorts, thats going to lead to higher visitor numbers alone. But visit numbers definitely don’t equal quality, if that were the case Mt. Snow, Stratton and Okemo would be the best of SoVT.


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## jaytrem (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> most diner visits! southern colorado is great when you get off the beaten path, but i-70 is fucking worthless.



I not sure anybody enjoys "off the beaten" path more than me.  But I wouldn't go that far.  Just gotta time things right.  Did a Ikon trip out there last year with the kids and it was great (other than getting crazy sick).  Didn't really deal with lines at all.  But yeah, in my opinion, nothing beats interior BC.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> I’d rather ski Whistler-Blackcomb or Revelstoke than any major resort in CO that comes to mind. CO is easy access due to the I-70 corridor and so many Epic/IKON resorts, thats going to lead to higher visitor numbers alone. But visit numbers definitely don’t equal quality, if that were the case Mt. Snow, Stratton and Okemo would be the best of SoVT.


Hate to break it to you but they are


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

L


KustyTheKlown said:


> so you skied a bunch of superior mountains early season with no snow, and haven't even bothered with utah or tahoe or british columbia (and BC is the best skiing, snow, terrain in north america), and you state conclusively that colorado is best? you don't even have the experience to support that opinion. and the main point is that skier visits doesn't equal best skiing. that's ludicrous. mcdonalds makes the best food in america! most diner visits! southern colorado is great when you get off the beaten path, but i-70 is fucking worthless. popular tends to equal bad, expensive, and annoying to deal with.


last time I checked bc wasn’t part of the United States, but the Colorado resorts I skied at aspen, vail, snowmass, beaver creek, Breckenridge and keystone for snow, views, amenities, lifts, town. I haven’t seen anything to top that, although when I get out west, I do get homesick for New England Mtn views


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

whatever man. glad people think like you do. keeps the riffraff away from the mad river glens and revelstokes of the world. enjoy your faux european alpine villages.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> whatever man. glad people think like you do. keeps the riffraff away from the mad river glens and revelstokes of the world. enjoy your faux european alpine villages.


Two mtns in Vermont I don’t get all for different reasons, killington and mad River Glen, Glen has a very off putting vibe for a visitor, and I don’t go for that reason and others which would take to long to explain, killington is the worst Mtn in the northeast maybe the country but they do 900k skier visits, so that kinda proves my point, customers go to where they have great experiences, mad River glen is a micro ski area that probably does 50k skier visits,


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## jaytrem (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> whatever man. glad people think like you do. keeps the riffraff away from the mad river glens and revelstokes of the world. enjoy your faux european alpine villages.


A few friends went to Revelstoke last year.  Said it was much more crowded than when we went 10+ years ago.  Guess the word is out.  I noticed the same thing at Kicking Horse a few years ago.  Guess the huge expansions at both places are paying off.


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Two mtns in Vermont I don’t get all for different reasons, killington and mad River Glen, Glen has a very off putting vibe for a visitor, and I don’t go for that reason and others which would take to long to explain, killington is the worst Mtn in the northeast maybe the country but they do 900k skier visits, so that kinda proves my point, customers go to where they have great experiences, mad River glen is a micro ski area that probably does 50k skier visits,


I'm very confused by so much of what you're saying here.

What about MRG is off-putting? I thought the vibe there was incredible when I visited. First time there and I felt like I had been a regular there forever with how friendly and welcoming everyone was.

And if you're saying K is the worst mountain yet still has high skier visits, doesn't that DIS-prove your point about high skier visits being attributed to places having the "best mountains"?


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

no sense nonsense in this thread.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Not sure how one can claim that VT has better mountains than Maine having never skied there.

If Sugarloaf were in Southern VT it would be the busiest ski area in New England.  Sunday River as is typically finishes top 5 in skier visits in the East


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Not sure how one can claim that VT has better mountains than Maine having never skied there.
> 
> If Sugarloaf were in Southern VT it would be the busiest ski area in New England.  Sunday River as is typically finishes top 5 in skier visits in the East



there is only vail and okemo. i know this because that's where I've visited.


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## LonghornSkier (Feb 23, 2021)

I think there's a totally fair argument to be made that VT has better skiing than ME. I would tend to agree (I like skiing at the Maine areas but they tend to get less snow mid-winter and there aren't as many choices (really only three big ski areas-not including Shawnee Peak and Mt Abram)...

BUT, using skier visits as a metric to determine that is wrong... Convenience, nightlife, slopeside development, etc have more to do with skier visits than quality of terrain and/or snow.

As for CO-I agree that it's not the best skiing in the west but places like Aspen are absolutely world class and shouldn't be minimized.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Not sure how one can claim that VT has better mountains than Maine having never skied there.
> 
> If Sugarloaf were in Southern VT it would be the busiest ski area in New England.  Sunday River as is typically finishes top 5 in skier visits in the East


Based upon skier visits, Maine has less skier visits than New Hampshire, I have skied both Vermont and New Hampshire, for the whole package Vermont is better, if Maine was better than New Hampshire, skier visits would indicate that.  If pico was 20 miles from killington, if Smuggs wasn’t next to Stowe, could go forever on that


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## thebigo (Feb 23, 2021)

The snowfields on a perfect bluebird spring day is a unique experience in the east that should be on every eastern skiers list. SL also is more relaxed than any other place I have skied east or west. If choosing a retirement location in the east, based on skiing only, it would probably be the loaf.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I'm very confused by so much of what you're saying here.
> 
> What about MRG is off-putting? I thought the vibe there was incredible when I visited. First time there and I felt like I had been a regular there forever with how friendly and welcoming everyone was.
> 
> And if you're saying K is the worst mountain yet still has high skier visits, doesn't that DIS-prove your point about high skier visits being attributed to places having the "best mountains"?


What I am saying, is even though I have personal opinions on what I like, look at the market, the market loves killington, don’t ask why I don’t understand it, but 900k skiers crowd themselves into killington every year, their not their because it sucks, even though I can’t stand the place


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I'm very confused by so much of what you're saying here.
> 
> What about MRG is off-putting? I thought the vibe there was incredible when I visited. First time there and I felt like I had been a regular there forever with how friendly and welcoming everyone was.
> 
> And if you're saying K is the worst mountain yet still has high skier visits, doesn't that DIS-prove your point about high skier visits being attributed to places having the "best mountains"?


the vide for me, magic does not have this vide, love magic, but if your not a season pass holder or regular you get treated like you are trespassing, maybe I am using wrong words, but it’s not an inclusive place to me, they use to have an unmarked trail that the regulars knew about, it went to a barn for drinks(now a bed and breakfast place) the regulars didn’t want to be shoulder to shoulder with guys like me, that vibe is still their, in my humble opinion


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> there is only vail and okemo. i know this because that's where I've visited.


Never skied ct, but unless you guys want to claim otherwise, pretty sure. Vermont is better than ct, but maybe you guys all have a different opinion on that too.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 23, 2021)

People are dumber than sh$t and flock in herds for basic products and experiences.

look at Walmart. Does Walmart have the very best products? No, it’s convenient and reliable.

those crowds cobbold is using as a quality metric are exactly why people are disagreeing with him.

over the years I’ve noticed that some folks are numbers people. It’s how they see the world and create a perception of value. It’s kind of odd to me but......whatever


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## snoseek (Feb 23, 2021)

Vermont is great but let's not pretend proximity to a very large amount of people isnt a factor. It's the main reason I like nh and Maine.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> People are dumber than sh$t and flock in herds for basic products and experiences.
> 
> look at Walmart. Does Walmart have the very best products? No, it’s convenient and reliable.
> 
> ...


I have a dim view of killington, but the market tells me otherwise, hard to argue with facts, same with Colorado, no state is even close to co skier visits, either Colorado has the best skiing or Colorado skiers are complete idiots,


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

how is it so hard for you to understand that popularity doesn't equal quality.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Vermont is great but let's not pretend proximity to a very large amount of people isnt a factor. It's the main reason I like nh and Maine.


Ski all the time in Vermont and run into  people from boston,eastern mass, Rhode  island, next time I will set then straight tell them how much better Nh and Maine skiing is, if you don’t believe just ask my friends on alpine zone forum


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## snoseek (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Ski all the time in Vermont and run into  people from boston,eastern mass, Rhode  island, next time I will set then straight tell them how much better Nh and Maine skiing is, if you don’t believe just ask my friends on alpine zone forum


Sure but that population down by NYC is going to vermont alot more. I'm not arguing vermont has better skiing...

Colorado though..yeah it's got some great areas away from 70 but the west has much better to offer as far as pure skiing experience goes...but hey that just an opinion


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## raisingarizona (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> I have a dim view of killington, but the market tells me otherwise, hard to argue with facts, same with Colorado, no state is even close to co skier visits, either Colorado has the best skiing or Colorado skiers are complete idiots,


Colorado has great skiing and fantastic resorts. Amenities and overall resort experience though don’t dictate the best skiing. Also, the market majority aren’t looking for what a seasoned expert wants are likes.

I do agree that there isn’t anything like a classic Colorado ski town anywhere other than Colorado but that still doesn’t define the best for skiing.

besides the complete silliness of this thread the “best” is subjective and a personal opinion. You can’t define it with data, that’s not how it works.

Engineer? Autism?


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> how is it so hard for you to understand that popularity doesn't equal quality.



Didn't you know Dominos must be better than any local pizzeria in NYC? And Bud makes better beer than any craft brewery. And Barefoot wine is better than any other wine sold in the US.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Colorado has great skiing and fantastic resorts. Amenities and overall resort experience though don’t dictate the best skiing. Also, the market majority aren’t looking for what a seasoned expert wants are likes.
> 
> I do agree that there isn’t anything like a classic Colorado ski town anywhere other than Colorado but that still doesn’t define the best for skiing.



aspen, breckenridge, telluride all definitely have that 'small urban city street grid' at the base of the lift vibes. begrudgingly i will say vail does too, but that's like epcot center - manufactured and fake.

whistler has the faux village vail style

park city is a pretty legitimate comparison to the colorado towns. jackson is a great town but it doesn't sit at the foot of the ski area.

but those towns are pretty much just expensive tourist trap restaurants and t-shirt shops. not needed. I'll take kicking horse and shitty railroad pit stop Golden BC over all of it.


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## snoseek (Feb 23, 2021)

Breckinridge probably does double the skier visits as Telluride so it MUST be twice as good right?


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## raisingarizona (Feb 23, 2021)

Crested Butte was really fun in the 90’s. Telluride has become too expensive for us. I really enjoy Durango but right now Taos is my favorite.

Taos has the winning combination for me. Killer food, nice but with a side of realness and grit, awesome ski terrain and hardly anyone there.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Didn't you know Dominos must be better than any local pizzeria in NYC? And Bud makes better beer than any craft brewery. And Barefoot wine is better than any other wine sold in the US.


You are comparing apples to oranges, if montana had the best ski areas  , they would have the most skier visits, Vermont has better skiing than nh, therefore more skier visits, are their great places in Nh,yes,  but more and better places in Vermont, and if not better just more of than, look at the acreage of ski areas in vermont to nh


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## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> What I am saying, is even though I have personal opinions on what I like, look at the market, the market loves killington, don’t ask why I don’t understand it, but 900k skiers crowd themselves into killington every year, their not their because it sucks, even though I can’t stand the place


But then why quote skier visits as proof CO is the best western skiing?  Your own expereince re: K-ton proves to you that skier visits is not a valid metric to measure overall expereince.

Sorry to here MRG was off putting to you.  I find it to be a very friendly place, and snow quality and terrain is outstanding.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 23, 2021)

Personally, I think Mad River is the best ski area in the east but that’s just like.....my opinion man.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

tnt1234 said:


> But then why quote skier visits as proof CO is the best western skiing?  Your own expereince re: K-ton proves to you that skier visits is not a valid metric to measure overall expereince.
> 
> Sorry to here MRG was off putting to you.  I find it to be a very friendly place, and snow quality and terrain is outstanding.



right? i feel like im taking crazy pills. he keeps making our point by his comments on killington. this thread is so stupid.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges, if montana had the best ski areas  , they would have the most skier visits, Vermont has better skiing than nh, therefore more skier visits, are their great places in Nh,yes,  but more and better places in Vermont, and if not better just more of than, look at the acreage of ski areas in vermont to nh


One could argue that big sky is overall the best big, diverse ski area in the country.

I still prefer Jackson 25 years ago (it’s too crowded now) or a sleeper pow day at Snowbird. TTB tram laps are damn cool when there isn’t a wait. Right now though.....Taos. It’s my favorite.

This dude is trolling. Gotta be. Or just super weird.


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## Shredmonkey254 (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges, if montana had the best ski areas  , they would have the most skier visits, Vermont has better skiing than nh, therefore more skier visits, are their great places in Nh,yes,  but more and better places in Vermont, and if not better just more of than, look at the acreage of ski areas in vermont to nh


OMG. So sorry to not have been paying attention to this thread... it's amusing AF!


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Breckinridge probably does double the skier visits as Telluride so it MUST be twice as good right?


the market is making a statement, people feel they get more value for their money there, which includes ease of travel, last I knew telluride did 400k in skier visits, breck does 1.6 , more people travel to breck, why? Dont know, but they do, you crack that and ski areas hire you for big bucks to bring in skiers.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> One could argue that big sky is overall the best big, diverse ski area in the country.
> 
> I still prefer Jackson 25 years ago (it’s too crowded now) or a sleeper pow day at Snowbird. TTB tram laps are damn cool when there isn’t a wait. Right now though.....Taos. It’s my favorite.
> 
> This dude is trolling. Gotta be. Or just super weird.


My wife thinks both


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

i know why. its 60 miles from denver and easy to get to from denver airport. it has literally nothing to do with the quality of skiing vs telluride. no ski area company needs to hire me for that expert analysis.


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## NYDB (Feb 23, 2021)

Keystone is definitely one of the top 5 ski areas in the USA.   

Obvious troll is obvious.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i know why. its 60 miles from denver and easy to get to from denver airport. it has literally nothing to do with the quality of skiing vs telluride.


here we are arguing which Colorado ski area is better, not Montana, Wyoming, Utah California etc


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Keystone is definitely one of the top 5 ski areas in the USA.
> 
> Obvious troll is obvious.


never said keystone is top five,


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> how is it so hard for you to understand that popularity doesn't equal quality.


tarraghee


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> You are comparing apples to oranges, if montana had the best ski areas  , they would have the most skier visits, Vermont has better skiing than nh, therefore more skier visits, are their great places in Nh,yes,  but more and better places in Vermont, and if not better just more of than, look at the acreage of ski areas in vermont to nh



My comparisons are no different from you comparing VT's skier visits to ME or NH's skier visits. And now you're almost backtracking with part of what you're saying. Now you're adding "more ski areas" and "more acreage" into the equation on why skier visits are higher in VT. And that is one of the factors in why skier visits are higher in VT compared to the other states. More ski areas and more acreage doesn't automatically mean better though. VT is also more easily accessible to a larger population than the NH and ME resorts. Location, location, location. That's a very significant factor. There's a limit on how far people are willing to go no matter how good something somewhere else is.

And I say VT doesn't necessarily have the best resorts in New England even though that's where I chose to ski. My criteria isn't simply "I want to ski at the best resort". My criteria is "I want to ski at the best resort _within a reasonable driving distance_". The qualification is important. That eliminated most of the NH and ME resorts that could be in that "best resort" category from my options. I know many people in the NJ/NY area that set their potential driving range even lower than I did, which is why a lot of people I know tend to gravitate towards more of the southern VT resorts (and never even consider NH/ME). Some may like the southern VT resorts, but others have point blank said they prefer the northern VT ones but just aren't willing to drive that far on a regular basis. This is a major factor in where people go (especially if they want to do regular trips there).


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Personally, I think Mad River is the best ski area in the east but that’s just like.....my opinion man.


But the market says no, based upon skier visits


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

RustyGroomer said:


> tarraghee



lol

hope you are having a good season. i've been at magic a lot but i'm really covid antisocial. i haven't even been skiing with my regular ski buds this year. pretty much solo listening to music every day out.


----------



## jaytrem (Feb 23, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I still prefer Jackson 25 years ago (it’s too crowded now) or a sleeper pow day at Snowbird. TTB tram laps are damn cool when there isn’t a wait. Right now though.....Taos. It’s my favorite.



I'm not upset that my brother-in-law in the Air Force got moved to NM from Florida.  They were at Angle Fire this past weekend.  Love the Taos area, apparently still not too crowded these days.


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

cdskier said:


> My comparisons are no different from you comparing VT's skier visits to ME or NH's skier visits. And now you're almost backtracking with part of what you're saying. Now you're adding "more ski areas" and "more acreage" into the equation on why skier visits are higher in VT. And that is one of the factors in why skier visits are higher in VT compared to the other states. More ski areas and more acreage doesn't automatically mean better though. VT is also more easily accessible to a larger population than the NH and ME resorts. Location, location, location. That's a very significant factor. There's a limit on how far people are willing to go no matter how good something somewhere else is.
> 
> And I say VT doesn't necessarily have the best resorts in New England even though that's where I chose to ski. My criteria isn't simply "I want to ski at the best resort". My criteria is "I want to ski at the best resort _within a reasonable driving distance_". The qualification is important. That eliminated most of the NH and ME resorts that could be in that "best resort" category from my options. I know many people in the NJ/NY area that set their potential driving range even lower than I did, which is why a lot of people I know tend to gravitate towards more of the southern VT resorts (and never even consider NH/ME). Some may like the southern VT resorts, but others have point blank said they prefer the northern VT ones but just aren't willing to drive that far on a regular basis. This is a major factor in where people go (especially if they want to do regular trips there).


not backtracking at all, just explaining one of the reasons maybe why  vt has more visits than nh,  Why do Bostonians drive thru nh like maniacs on they way to a Vermont Ski resort??  If all equal just stop at the first one then.


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## RustyGroomer (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> lol
> 
> hope you are having a good season. i've been at magic a lot but i'm really covid antisocial. i haven't even been skiing with my regular ski buds this year. pretty much solo listening to music every day out.




No worries.  Been a weird year.  Give a shout next time & if things align we'll take a few runs.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

RustyGroomer said:


> tarraghee


So you are saying people spend lots of  time and money and energy to get to ski areas that are less good than tarraghee, but only a 200k people in the whole country now this and all other skiers who don’t know this are idiots or simpletons who should be separated from their money


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

no he's saying you dont know how to fucking spell.


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> not backtracking at all, just explaining one of the reasons maybe why  vt has more visits than nh,  Why do Bostonians drive thru nh like maniacs on they way to a Vermont Ski resort??  If all equal just stop at the first one then.


So originally it was "skier visits are higher because the resorts are the best". Then you changed it to "skier visits are higher for multiple reasons". And that isn't backtracking? Do you even know the definition of backtracking?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Yeah, so Saddleback is skiing pretty great right now.  Tough viability today, but killer snow.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

that looks dreamy. i can't think of many eastern slopes with wide open tree spacing like that. vista glades at bolton sort of.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 23, 2021)

I should add that despite the holiday week, we never waited more than one chair.   Plenty of fresh all day and that will also be the case tomorrow.

But, Maine skiing totally sucks.  No wonder so many more people ski in VT instead.


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## Smellytele (Feb 23, 2021)

Wow 3 useless pages to get back to Saddleback !


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

cdskier said:


> So originally it was "skier visits are higher because the resorts are the best". Then you changed it to "skier visits are higher for multiple reasons". And that isn't backtracking? Do you even know the definition of backtracking?


Well, skier visits are higher than nh, Vermont has more acreage than nh, so I guess their is a correlation, does the acreage cause more skie visits? Or is better terrain that lends itself to more acreage that skiers follow, I guess that’s my point


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## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> But the market says no, based upon skier visits


I think you should replace 'best' with 'most popular' in your posts and then they would be accurate.

"Best" is subjective.


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## Smellytele (Feb 23, 2021)

tnt1234 said:


> I think you should replace 'best' with 'most popular' in your posts and then they would be accurate.
> 
> "Best" is subjective.


I think he should shut the fuck up because he is an idiot.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I should add that despite the holiday week, we never waited more than one chair.   Plenty of fresh all day and that will also be the case tomorrow.
> 
> But, Maine skiing totally sucks.  No wonder so many more people ski in VT instead.


Never said Maine sucks, or nh for that matter, just Vermont is tops in skier visits, which to me means that market of skiers who have limited resources in time, money and energy, chose Vermont over other New England places in larger numbers, i also said Colorado for western skiing, and most people could not handle that, the market is the market, all the opinions about what is better, is just that an opinion, without looking at skier visits.  Each skier visit measures energy, time and money.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I think he should shut the fuck up because he is an idiot.


Wow, some people can’t handle some facts


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## Smellytele (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Wow, some people can’t handle some facts


No some people say things they can’t back up with facts. You didn’t start by saying vt has more skier visits you said vt mountains are better so sir you are an idiot.

“Their (sp) is a reason Vermont has the most skier visits in New England, they have the best mtns, just like Colorado has the most skier visits,”


----------



## Shredmonkey254 (Feb 23, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> No some people say things they can’t back up with facts. You didn’t start by saying vt has more skier visits you said vt mountains are better so sir you are an idiot.
> 
> “Their (sp) is a reason Vermont has the most skier visits in New England, they have the best mtns, just like Colorado has the most skier visits,”


I'm making another bowl of popcorn now... extra butter this time around. It's the best!


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> No some people say things they can’t back up with facts. You didn’t start by saying vt has more skier visits you said vt mountains are better so sir you are an idiot.


Their is a fair amount of drift in the thread, but I think I started out with the hypothesis that in New England Vermont  has the highest skier visits, till Utah caught them a few years ago they were number two, my views of Colorado coincides  with vermont, not that other states did not have good resorts, but for what reason which I can’t seem to articulate or even know but Vermont and Colorado stand above its regional peers for skier visits, which I think since each visit is a measure of time, money and energy indicates the skier market thinks Vermont is tops in New England and Colorado in the Rockies, every took shots at that hypothesis, which is good, but no one really could change the facts Vermont and Colorado are tops for skier visits, my belief or opinion is that they got to be number one, not by chance but being the “best” whether it’s caused by snow, the mtns, how easy it is to get too, or other factors, they get the skiers.  Sorry this freaks people out, but we use skier visits on other threads here to talk about the health of skiing, is it growing, shrinking etc,


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

Shredmonkey254 said:


> I'm making another bowl of popcorn now... extra butter this time around. It's the best!


No I think I started with vermont is “ best” based upon skier visits,


----------



## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> No I think I started with vermont is “ best” based upon skier visits,



Smellytele literally quoted from your first post in this thread where you said the reason VT has the most skier visits in New England is because they have the best mountains...


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## Zand (Feb 23, 2021)

Holy shit, my brain just leaked out of my ears reading this thread.

DHS PLEASE fill like two pages with Saddleback pictures and get us back on track.


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

cdskier said:


> Smellytele literally quoted from your first post in this thread where you said the reason VT has the most skier visits in New England is because they have the best mountains...


I think I said based upon skier visits they are the best, skier visits is how the they measure each year, stands to reason, to measure each region against other regions is to use skier visits.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 23, 2021)

Oh this guy is good.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

everyone get in the van, we're going to vail! it's the BEST!


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## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> everyone get in the van, we're going to vail! it's the BEST!


You driving?


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## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Their is a fair amount of drift in the thread, but I think I started out with the hypothesis that in New England Vermont  has the highest skier visits, till Utah caught them a few years ago they were number two, my views of Colorado coincides  with vermont, not that other states did not have good resorts, but for what reason which I can’t seem to articulate or even know but Vermont and Colorado stand above its regional peers for skier visits, which I think since each visit is a measure of time, money and energy indicates the skier market thinks Vermont is tops in New England and Colorado in the Rockies, every took shots at that hypothesis, which is good, but no one really could change the facts Vermont and Colorado are tops for skier visits, my belief or opinion is that they got to be number one, not by chance but being the “best” whether it’s caused by snow, the mtns, how easy it is to get too, or other factors, they get the skiers.  Sorry this freaks people out, but we use skier visits on other threads here to talk about the health of skiing, is it growing, shrinking etc,


Right - CO and VT are the most popular ski destinations.  

I don't think that proves they are the best.  I, like you, don't think K-ton is the best, but it is the most popular.

See the difference?


----------



## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

I do have to say, in my high school years, I always went to Killington....what a shame.  So many great trips with great friends, and we always went back to teh same place....


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

tnt1234 said:


> I do have to say, in my high school years, I always went to Killington....what a shame.  So many great trips with great friends, and we always went back to teh same place....



i've come to really like killington, and have particular respect to their consistent dedication to the early and late season game. but there was a period where i was very anti-killington, and resentful toward my own father (lol), who would take us to mount snow for MLK and killington for presidents week every year (this is such a first world complaint, fuck me), and didn't acknowledge that other places existed. when i was in college a friend's family had a house near saint johnsbury, and we based there and skied sugarbush, stowe, jay, burke, and smuggs for a week. and my life changed significantly and i was mad at my dad.


----------



## Cobbold (Feb 23, 2021)

tnt1234 said:


> Right - CO and VT are the most popular ski destinations.
> 
> I don't think that proves they are the best.  I, like you, don't think K-ton is the best, but it is the most popular.
> 
> See the difference?


I did not say killington was the best, annual skier visits makes Vermont the best, based upon those numbers.  what Makes them more popular? Quality of the mtns, amount of annual snowfall, lifts etc, they are popular for a reason, Bostonians don’t drive thru nh to Vermont for no reason.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Feb 23, 2021)

This thread is ruined...

Can we break out the what's best posts to their own thread?

Conditions look good DHS


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## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i've come to really like killington, and have particular respect to their consistent dedication to the early and late season game. but there was a period where i was very anti-killington, and resentful toward my own father (lol), who would take us to mount snow for MLK and killington for presidents week every year (this is such a first world complaint, fuck me), and didn't acknowledge that other places existed. when i was in college a friend's family had a house near saint johnsbury, and we based there and skied sugarbush, stowe, jay, burke, and smuggs for a week. and my life changed significantly and i was mad at my dad.


Yeah, I mean, I guess I used to love the place....when Bear Mountain opened, skiing Outer Limits was just....fucking crazy!  And I remember Wildfire and Devils Fiddel being super fun......And I was there once with my wife and friends during a huge dump and we skied....needles eye?  I forget....one of the other areas....to death....it was a blast.  

But the place takes you forever to get from A to B.  Half the day is spent on....what's that trail?  Great Northern?  And some other kind of connector.....

I just never really knew there were other layouts, other ways to assess the mountain other than BIG IS GOOD.

Had a friend who had a place at Pico and that started opening my eyes.  Everyone meets at the same base.  No time spent trying to get to the lift you think you what to ski...oly to find out conditions suck on this side or whatever....


I went back of a day about 4 years ago after not being there in probably 15.  And it felt really run down and weird.  But it was a crappy season and snow quality was poor.  Looked into Julio and Anarchy where were not skiable and can appreciate there is some real terrain there.

But we did ski Outer Limits!!!  Just as scary as it was when I was 15!  Bumps the size of Volkwagons and steep as balls!!!


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## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> I did not say killington was the best, annual skier visits makes Vermont the best, based upon those numbers.  what Makes them more popular? Quality of the mtns, amount of annual snowfall, lifts etc, they are popular for a reason, Bostonians don’t drive thru nh to Vermont for no reason.


But it follows if skier visits is your metric to define best, K-ton is in fact the best.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 23, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> This thread is ruined...
> 
> Can we break out the what's best posts to their own thread?
> 
> Conditions look good DHS


there happens to be another saddleback thread on the front page, fortunately.


----------



## Zand (Feb 23, 2021)

tnt1234 said:


> But the place takes you forever to get from A to B.  Half the day is spent on....what's that trail?  Great Northern?  And some other kind of connector.....


I really hate to bite on this thread, but if any part of your day involves skiing either Great Northern or Great Eastern for any length of time, pick up a trail map and look at it for like 10 seconds. 

If Sugarbush didnt have Castlerock and the woods off Paradise, Killington would be a better mountain terrain wise. You just actually have to, you know, ski the good stuff instead of traversing everywhere.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 23, 2021)

Zand said:


> I really hate to bite on this thread, but if any part of your day involves skiing either Great Northern or Great Eastern for any length of time, pick up a trail map and look at it for like 10 seconds.
> 
> If Sugarbush didnt have Castlerock and the woods off Paradise, Killington would be a better mountain terrain wise. You just actually have to, you know, ski the good stuff instead of traversing everywhere.


Yeah, that totally sounds right to me.  But I just don't think I ever got the hang of the place somehow despite skiing it a lot....I don't know...

I also think you are right re: SB and CR.  But I prefer MRG, Stowe and Magic to K-ton, though in fairness, I just don't go to K.

My gun to head assessment would be Stowe is the best mountain in the east - that I have skied.  Noting that the only time I skied Sugarloaf it was a terrible season, and the place was barely open and it pissed rain on us for a day.  Place looks amazing, but we just didn't catch it.


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## Zand (Feb 23, 2021)

tnt1234 said:


> Yeah, that totally sounds right to me.  But I just don't think I ever got the hang of the place somehow despite skiing it a lot....I don't know...
> 
> I also think you are right re: SB and CR.  But I prefer MRG, Stowe and Magic to K-ton, though in fairness, I just don't go to K.
> 
> My gun to head assessment would be Stowe is the best mountain in the east - that I have skied.  Noting that the only time I skied Sugarloaf it was a terrible season, and the place was barely open and it pissed rain on us for a day.  Place looks amazing, but we just didn't catch it.


Stowe is one I've never took the time to figure out, especially the side country. Went a few times in high school and only once since. Never had an epic pass and price keeps me away. Everytime I go I just lap Fourrunner and ski the woods. 

My top 5 if 100% open with good snow is MRG, Jay, Smuggs, Bush, Cannon. K, Stowe, and Loaf the next 3.

Now that Saddleback is back open and on the Indy Pass, I think my top 5 will be changing!


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## cdskier (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> I did not say killington was the best, annual skier visits makes Vermont the best, based upon those numbers.  what Makes them more popular? Quality of the mtns, amount of annual snowfall, lifts etc, they are popular for a reason, Bostonians don’t drive thru nh to Vermont for no reason.


Once again, popularity has nothing to do with being "the best". You left a rather big one off your list of popularity reasons...location relative to major population areas. VT has a much larger pool of people to pull from than NH or ME do. The NYC metro area alone represents over 20M people (and VT pulls from numerous other population areas as well). The Boston metro area is 1/4 of that. Boston people also don't all go to VT. Sure some definitely do go to VT, but some also go to NH and ME as well.



Zand said:


> If Sugarbush didnt have Castlerock and the woods off Paradise, Killington would be a better mountain terrain wise. You just actually have to, you know, ski the good stuff instead of traversing everywhere.



I don't really agree with that. I still think even without CR, SB's terrain is a lot more interesting than K's (and I'm by no means a K-hater as I've had a lot of fun there over the years). Honestly I like the terrain at Pico better than K. I will qualify this as saying I have 0 experience with K's tree runs as when I last skied K that wasn't something I was into. So maybe that would tip the scales back in K's favor if I were to ski it now.


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## jaytrem (Feb 23, 2021)

Hey, did you guys hear Saddleback is now on Indy!!!  Will be sure to get there if I cancel my western trip.

When 99% of the people agree on something, is it worth the time to argue with the 1% that doesn't?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 23, 2021)

No way!

Proximity to major population centers or access to great transportation has something to do with popularity?

What a novel business concept.

Hear me out, they should do a segment on this in College Business 101.   Call it?!?!??

Location, location, location


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## machski (Feb 23, 2021)

Cobbold said:


> Based upon skier visits, Maine has less skier visits than New Hampshire, I have skied both Vermont and New Hampshire, for the whole package Vermont is better, if Maine was better than New Hampshire, skier visits would indicate that.  If pico was 20 miles from killington, if Smuggs wasn’t next to Stowe, could go forever on that


WOW, you have to be joking.  Yes Maine has fewer skier visits than NH but that is because until this year, it only had two real Ski Resorts in Sugarloaf and Sunday River (sure, they have Shawnee that operates daily and then a bunch of other small areas, many of which operate on a limited schedule) and while Saddleback is back and a bigger area, it isn't a whole resort deal yet.  

NH has Waterville, Loon, Bretton Woods and Attitash that offer the full resort experience along with a bunch of other large and/or popular areas like Cannon, Wildcat, Cranmore, Sunapee, Ragged, Gunstock and others.

So is NH better than Maine for skiing?  Certaily more variety in areas in NH, but the three big areas in Maine make a lot of NH pale by comparison.  I would stack all three big ME areas on top of any overall list of NH/ME areas.


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## ericapark (Feb 24, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> aspen, breckenridge, telluride all definitely have that 'small urban city street grid' at the base of the lift vibes. begrudgingly i will say vail does too, but that's like epcot center - manufactured and fake.
> 
> whistler has the faux village vail style
> 
> ...


I agree with you that park city is legitimate and Breckinridge probably does double the skier visits. But the others are expensive


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 24, 2021)




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## deadheadskier (Feb 24, 2021)




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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 24, 2021)

That place looks great!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 24, 2021)

jimmywilson69 said:


> That place looks great!


Probably the greatest collection of old school Eastern trails of any mountain in New England. There's really only a handful of modern, wide and straight style trails.  Everything else is nice and twisty with well over half the place ungroomed.  Throw the massive amount of tree skiing on top and it's tough to beat for my tastes.  

Now with a game changing HSQ, the place is pretty much perfect.  A little bit shy on long, continuous vertical like a Stowe or Wildcat, but that's about the only criticism I have of the place and it's minor.  

Hopefully if the place eventually sells out to a large corporate conglomerate, they don't fuck it up and turn it into another McSkiarea.


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## tipsdown (Feb 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Probably the greatest collection of old school Eastern trails of any mountain in New England. There's really only a handful of modern, wide and straight style trails.  Everything else is nice and twisty with well over half the place ungroomed.  Throw the massive amount of tree skiing on top and it's tough to beat for my tastes.
> 
> Now with a game changing HSQ, the place is pretty much perfect.  A little bit shy on long, continuous vertical like a Stowe or Wildcat, but that's about the only criticism I have of the place and it's minor.
> 
> Hopefully if the place eventually sells out to a large corporate conglomerate, they don't fuck it up and turn it into another McSkiarea.



Deadheadskier I would agree...sport on. As they push the ski boundary further east (lookers left) there is a lot of potential for even more continuous vertical.  Under the current footprint, the terrain is naturally segmented across ability level which is also an asset...But when that happens, the place will be a near perfect East coast ski experience.


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## Newpylong (Feb 25, 2021)

Resplicing Rangeley haul rope today. Didn't make it to the off season I guess.


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 25, 2021)

That's kind of a big deal.  I guess that's why they did it ASAP


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## Edd (Feb 25, 2021)

I’m totally assuming this haul rope is new along with the rest of the lift. I’m not a lift nerd. Maybe an installation error?


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## cdskier (Feb 25, 2021)

Edd said:


> I’m totally assuming this haul rope is new along with the rest of the lift. I’m not a lift nerd. Maybe an installation error?



It is normal for it to stretch. Usually they are able to wait until the off-season to shorten and re-splice it though. In this case it must have stretched a little more or quicker than anticipated.

Here's the details from Saddleback:


> With a new lift installation, rope stretch is common. The rope on the Rangeley Quad is approximately 10,000 feet long and this morning crews removed 13 feet of rope to accommodate the existing and anticipated stretch. Removing this amount of rope is perfectly normal in a new lift installation and part of routine adjustments and maintenance. Thank you to the Doppelmayr USA crew for assisting our mountain ops team in this project.


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## Edd (Feb 25, 2021)

cdskier said:


> It is normal for it to stretch. Usually they are able to wait until the off-season to shorten and re-splice it though. In this case it must have stretched a little more or quicker than anticipated.
> 
> Here's the details from Saddleback:


Dang, what a completely rational explanation for a ski area doing something weird. Just from online communication I detect a fair amount of competence from management.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 26, 2021)

Russell Cove is definitely the spot to stay in Rangeley.  Probably 15 or so homes ranging from 1 bedroom camps to the 4 bedroom house we stayed at.  Nice common area for the association.  Right across the street from the bowling alley and a half mile walk into town.  Between the great mountain and town, there really is no better spot in New England to take a ski vacation


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## deadheadskier (Feb 26, 2021)

Except for Okemo, Mt Snow or Killington obviously.  That's why more people go there than here.


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## Domeskier (Feb 26, 2021)

My decisions on where to ski are probably never guided by which mountain is “best.”  Most often, my decision is based on matters of convenience, including proximity and marginal cost. The fact that 90% of my days are in the Poconos should not in any way be construed to mean that I wouldn’t rather be at a better mountain like Saddleback, all things being equal. All it means is that factors more important to me than “which mountain is best” determined my decision. Often, the best decision for me is to ski at a worse mountain.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 27, 2021)

Perfect customer service by Saddleback.  I had bought a test pass last summer. 3 days for $135 and booked this midweek up there to ski for three days.  Had a good buddy come to join us and his retail price for three days was $182.  

They announce they are closing on Thursday, I think on Sunday?  I email them and ask if there is anything they can do for us as we are missing out on a day of skiing due to maintenance.  Sending us gift cards for the value of the days lost.  Not vouchers to come back this season or next.  You come back and spend that money with us when you are able.


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## Newpylong (Mar 8, 2021)

Today. 100% open - 'nuff said.


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## Edd (Mar 8, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Today. 100% open - 'nuff said.
> 
> 
> View attachment 50757View attachment 50758


I’m here too. Today was epic and we’re here until Thursday. It’s amazing.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 9, 2021)

is the natural stuff still skiing well? i tried to go to saddleback last monday and it was a big fat failure (wind holds) with a 10 hour round trip drive to not ski. it sucked. i'll get there eventually.


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## Edd (Mar 9, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> is the natural stuff still skiing well? i tried to go to saddleback last monday and it was a big fat failure (wind holds) with a 10 hour round trip drive to not ski. it sucked. i'll get there eventually.


That‘s a kick in the balls, sorry. Yes, ungroomed is skiing very well.


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## parahelia (Mar 9, 2021)

Does anyone know how the woods are holding up? Heading to ME for 5 days and was wondering about day tripping from the SR area to either Saddleback or the loaf. Sounds like it might be worthwhile despite the lack of recent snow - hopefully last week's wind didn't bring down too many trees.


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## Newpylong (Mar 9, 2021)

By noon yesterday the snow had softened up and the non-groomers were also great. As for snow depth, I stopped to take a piss once in Casablanca and leaned on my pole by mistake and it disappeared so.


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## reefer (Mar 9, 2021)

Jealous. Looks a lot like the Loaf.


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## Smellytele (Mar 9, 2021)

reefer said:


> Jealous. Looks a lot like the Loaf.


Terrain is better in my book.


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## Newpylong (Mar 10, 2021)

It's got that same in your face appearance when you drive up that's for sure.


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## Edd (Mar 11, 2021)

Some pics from yesterday. Spring snow but not mashed potatoes. Everything still in play. It was so good.


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## MG Skier (Mar 12, 2021)

Wow, I'm very jealous. Glad you got after it!!!


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## xlr8r (Mar 12, 2021)

Damn that looks good


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 12, 2021)

ya i am so annoyed with myself for my misadventure and failure to ski saddleback last week

i am 0 for 2 in northern Maine attempts. the one time i went to Sugarloaf it snowed all week and then rained and froze as i drove there. then i chased a storm to jay peak and totaled my car on a moose. the one time i went to saddleback (last week) was a 10 hour round trip misadventure drive with 100% wind holds, no skiing, and a minor car incident. 

i am going to try one more time maybe. i am off for good Friday and have a hotel in lincoln and will do cannon>saddleback>cannon assuming weather and terrain hold up


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## Killingtime (Mar 12, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ya i am so annoyed with myself for my misadventure and failure to ski saddleback last week
> 
> i am 0 for 2 in northern Maine attempts. the one time i went to Sugarloaf it snowed all week and then rained and froze as i drove there. then i chased a storm to jay peak and totaled my car on a moose. the one time i went to saddleback (last week) was a 10 hour round trip misadventure drive with 100% wind holds, no skiing, and a minor car incident.
> 
> i am going to try one more time maybe. i am off for good Friday and have a hotel in lincoln and will do cannon>saddleback>cannon assuming weather and terrain hold up


Sucks Bro! It took me a long time to figure out that unless the weather looks clear, I'm staying home. Follow as many webcams as you can and make a lot of phone calls to get the local weather where you are headed. Get get the best snow tires you can afford, makes a huge difference. Too many white-knuckle drives up into Vermont praying I don't slide off the road and too many times making a turn and the car keeps going straight before I learned. You'll have to elaborate on the moose story. That one sounds crazy.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 12, 2021)

Killingtime said:


> Sucks Bro! It took me a long time to figure out that unless the weather looks clear, I'm staying home. Follow as many webcams as you can and make a lot of phone calls to get the local weather where you are headed. Get get the best snow tires you can afford, makes a huge difference. Too many white-knuckle drives up into Vermont praying I don't slide off the road and too many times making a turn and the car keeps going straight before I learned. You'll have to elaborate on the moose story. That one sounds crazy.



yes, i definitely need snow tires. its time to just take that plunge next season. i happen to be a very safe driver and these two incidents are the only car accidents i've ever been in, so i'm just cursed in connection northwestern maine i guess. last Monday was hardly an accident - no injury, no damage, 15 minute delay in my day, quick tow out of a fucking snowbank.

moose was just before Christmas, in ~2012 or 2013 i guess?

it was a slow start to the season in vermont. maine got pounded with a few feet of snow that week while rain fell on vermont. i made the long 8 hour drive to Sugarloaf, my first time ever. but then as i was making my way to Maine, it rained and then froze. my one day ever skiing sugarloaf was an ice rink.

went back to the motel after a bad day skiing and saw that northern vt was gonna get a 12-18" dump that night. set my alarm for 4 AM with plans to head to jay.

country backroads with bad cell service connect sugarloaf and jay. it was snowing lightly, maybe about 3" on the ground. i'm outside island pond, vermont. i was driving up a hill, and when i got to the crest and could see the downhill slope, a full grown adult male moose with antlers was just standing in the middle of the road maybe 15 feet ahead of me. tried to stop but ended up skidding and my passenger side headlight struck the moose's rump.

i went into a spin to my left and was basically moving down the road perpendicular to the road. my front wheels eventually left the pavement and i flipped into the ditch on the opposite side of the road. it was all very slow mo. one moment i am spinning, the next i am slowly flipping, the next i am holding my steering wheel still, but upside down.

crawled out of the car. no cell service. grabbed some of my shit and started walking. first car to pass after nearly an hour was an oil tanker who drove me to town. got in contact with the police who got me a wrecker to flip and tow the car. game warden came with a shotgun to put down an injured moose, but did not find him. he apparently got away. every person i spoke to that day wanted that moose carcass for themself - the oil tank driver, the cop, the game warden, the mechanic, etc. everyone wanted to eat moose meat for the winter.

getting home from rural vermont the Sunday before xmas without a car is a fucking doozy. the mechanic ultimately drove me to st johnsbury, but there were no train tickets available. he drove me even further to Lebanon nh, where i hopped a 10 seater airplane flight on cape air to Westchester county. only time ive ever looked thru the windshield of a moving plane, as the pilot was in the same cabin as the passengers. everyone was wildly fascinated by my story - i showed up to the airport in full ski clothes, a big black plastic bag of all the shit that was in my car, and loose skis.

car was a total loss.


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## Killingtime (Mar 12, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yes, i definitely need snow tires. its time to just take that plunge next season. i happen to be a very safe driver and these two incidents are the only car accidents i've ever been in, so i'm just cursed in connection northwestern maine i guess. last Monday was hardly an accident - no injury, no damage, 15 minute delay in my day, quick tow out of a fucking snowbank.
> 
> moose was just before Christmas, in ~2012 or 2013 i guess?
> 
> ...


Great story, really sorry it happened but that is one truly amazing story. I owned a home in Killington for many, many years. Leaving from Long Island on Friday nights was a crap shoot. It could be 35F and clear down in NYC area and by the time you hit the VT border it was 20F and white out conditions. The weather changes on a dime. I know about getting stuck in rural VT though. My brother-in-law got a blow out near Okemo on a Sunday night and didn't have a spare. Had to be towed to Albany NY where they had a tire for his car. Didn't get home until noon the next day.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 12, 2021)

yep. walked away so it was a learning experience and an adventure. could have ended far worse. i was very scared of driving at night and during weather for a long time after. i went to colorado later that season and driving from the airport to breckenridge at night was absolutely terrifying. I've since done that not at all terrifying drive many times. and have done other stupid actually terrifying drives (like silverton to montrose in the dark in the snow, alone).


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## Killingtime (Mar 12, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yep. walked away so it was a learning experience and an adventure. could have ended far worse. i was very scared of driving at night and during weather for a long time after. i went to colorado later that season and driving from the airport to breckenridge at night was absolutely terrifying. I've since done that not at all terrifying drive many times. and have done other stupid actually terrifying drives (like silverton to montrose in the dark in the snow, alone)





KustyTheKlown said:


> yep. walked away so it was a learning experience and an adventure. could have ended far worse. i was very scared of driving at night and during weather for a long time after. i went to colorado later that season and driving from the airport to breckenridge at night was absolutely terrifying. I've since done that not at all terrifying drive many times. and have done other stupid actually terrifying drives (like silverton to montrose in the dark in the snow, alone).


I'll have to read your story to my wife over dinner tonight, she can sympathize and will love it. She almost wrecked her car on Route 100 north of Ludlow. Spun it on some ice and wound up backwards in a ditch on the other side of the road. Hasn't been the same driving in winter since.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 12, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yep. walked away so it was a learning experience and an adventure. could have ended far worse. i was very scared of driving at night and during weather for a long time after. i went to colorado later that season and driving from the airport to breckenridge at night was absolutely terrifying. I've since done that not at all terrifying drive many times. and have done other stupid actually terrifying drives (like silverton to montrose in the dark in the snow, alone).



It is pretty crazy driving to Saddleback.  I drove two different ways.  One driving north in NH and crossing through Gorham Notch in to ME.  when you are in ME it is like deliverance.  Dark and nothing around for miles it seems.  We did it one with all my kids and thought to myself if I make this then I will never take this path again.  The better path while a little longer was driving to Augusta and going north from there.  It is so remote.  Heck, any drive to Sugarloaf or Saddleback seems like an eternity but we did it for two occasions AlpineZone Weekend at Sugarloaf and Ride and Ski weekend at Saddleback.

So it sucks that you had such and encounter in Northern VT but at least you survived!  I think if my wife heard your story then we may have never gone to ME since that is more remote than going to Northern VT.


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## parahelia (Mar 12, 2021)

Got skunked at Saddleback today.  Mr. Parahelia went Wednesday and had his best day of the year, coming home to rave about the Casablanca chutes, Muleskinner, and the rest of the Kennebago steeps.  We traded off on kid duty and I drove up to our place by Sunday River Thursday night, deciding to roll the dice with the approach of the Arctic front Friday.  Woke up at 3am Friday to the howl of wind at SR and wondered what the next day would bring...

Arrived at Saddleback and 9am today amidst a stiff wind to find that skiing was limited to groomed terrain due to conditions & snow preservation.  Both the Rangeley quad and the Kennebago were on wind hold.  Thought about going to Sugarloaf but they were down to just Skidway and groomer terrain.  After hemming and hawing, I went back to SR, where the still-spring weather meant more lifts and terrain.  I gather they opened the Rangeley but it was limited to just a few groomed routes down.  The Kennebago eventually came on and lost power shortly afterwards, though it eventually came back.

Oh well.  Wind holds in western ME are an fact of life.  And the drive back via Height of Land on 17 was spectacular as always.


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## parahelia (Mar 12, 2021)

Killingtime said:


> Sucks Bro! It took me a long time to figure out that unless the weather looks clear, I'm staying home. Follow as many webcams as you can and make a lot of phone calls to get the local weather where you are headed. Get get the best snow tires you can afford, makes a huge difference. Too many white-knuckle drives up into Vermont praying I don't slide off the road and too many times making a turn and the car keeps going straight before I learned. You'll have to elaborate on the moose story. That one sounds crazy.


Re: snow tires - no kidding.  We almost didn't make it up the last hill on the SR access road one year when there was a dusting of snow on an already-slick surface and traffic queuing behind a struggling bus.  Had to make two tries to get enough momentum to get to the top.

Bought snow tires the next week and will never go back.  The grip is so much better on those snow-covered secondary roads.  It's just a PITA to store them in the off season.  But with a Prius, we need all the help we can get!


----------



## thebigo (Mar 12, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i am 0 for 2 in northern Maine attempts. the one time i went to Sugarloaf it snowed all week and then rained and froze as i drove there. then i chased a storm to jay peak and totaled my car on a moose. the one time i went to saddleback (last week) was a 10 hour round trip misadventure drive with 100% wind holds, no skiing, and a minor car incident.


Piece of advice: wouldnt let someone from the county hear you call Rangeley or Kingfield 'northern Maine'.


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## reefer (Mar 12, 2021)

nice pics! still looks like sugarloaf. which is a good thing!


----------



## Not Sure (Mar 15, 2021)




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## MG Skier (Mar 16, 2021)

I'd like to get up there sooner as opposed to later....it is a bit too much of a day trip even with a few drivers!


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## Zand (Mar 17, 2021)

Coverage still good up there? Want to pull the trigger on a room today, I imagine that the trail closures are due to the freeze and not lack of coverage. Looks warm starting Sunday so hoping theyre 100% next week.


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## parahelia (Mar 17, 2021)

I’m here today.  They are still recovering from the freeze, most of the upper kennebago terrain is closed. Coverage is not great at all on the top of the steeps and don’t know if they’ll reopen unless they get more snow. The coverage is pretty good elsewhere, though the woods are not deep.  The bumps took forever to soften today but are skiing great now.

It’s busy here by saddleback standards (all lots full, I heard), but I haven’t had to wait more than a couple minutes for a chair. Glad they’re back and that people are coming.


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## Zand (Mar 24, 2021)

After two days here, I can definitely say I understand what all the hype is all about. It's not the gnarliest place in the world but theres a ton of super fun terrain and the conditions are great while simultaneously being f*cking awful at Sugarloaf. I don't understand how two ski areas 30 miles apart at the same elevation can have such vastly different conditons, but damn. Unfortunately the steepest stuff off Kennebago is closed due to lack of coverage but the glades are still good and there's a ton of good stuff off the Rangeley Quad that you can get fast laps on.

BTW if anyone needs a dinner and motel recommendation, the Shed in Rangeley has some of the best pulled pork I've ever had and the Town and Lake across the street has nice rooms in a beautiful location. With snowmobile season over, it's nice and quiet in town right now although I've been here on snowmobile trips and I know how loud it is midwinter at almost all hours of the day and night.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2021)

Big factors in difference in conditions

1. Sugarloaf probably gets 5-6 times as many skier visits as SB.  The trails just get worked harder.  More traffic and grooming just ups the hardpack factor. 

2. Sugarloaf gets more wind

3. Saddleback gets slightly more snow.

#1 is the big one though.  It's why I find snow conditions comparatively better at Wildcat vs Cannon.  Actually all three reasons are pretty similar, though maybe only double the skier visits at Cannon vs Wildcat.


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## Edd (Mar 24, 2021)

For what it’s worth, Saddleback’s base elevation is some 800 feet higher, per Wikipedia. Loaf has more vert, though.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 24, 2021)

praying the snow scheduled to start sunday and continue thru next week makes next Saturday April 3 my saddleback day.

it will either be awesome, or I'll crash my car. one or the other. i'm overdue for awesome.


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## Newpylong (Mar 24, 2021)

Hope to get up there one more time this weekend, we shall see. I have been lucky enough to be there on good conditions, and it is pretty magical place. One side of me hopes it gets discovered more (I think it will based on folk's experience this year) to help pay for the infrastructure improvements, the other side of me hopes it stays a little off the beaten path. I guess that's what mid week is for...


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## ThatGuy (Mar 24, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> praying the snow scheduled to start sunday and continue thru next week makes next Saturday April 3 my saddleback day.
> 
> it will either be awesome, or I'll crash my car. one or the other. i'm overdue for awesome.


Lets just hope you don’t drive 6+ hours to turn around again.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 24, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Hope to get up there one more time this weekend, we shall see. I have been lucky enough to be there on good conditions, and it is pretty magical place. One side of me hopes it gets discovered more (I think it will based on folk's experience this year) to help pay for the infrastructure improvements, the other side of me hopes it stays a little off the beaten path. I guess that's what mid week is for...



they apparently had massive lines this past Saturday. some gaper on the northeast skiology page was super outraged. he also said they stopped some lift at ~3:45 that was needed to get back to the base so he had to climb up a mountain. i take this with a full shaker of salt.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 24, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> they apparently had massive lines this past Saturday. some gaper on the northeast skiology page was super outraged. he also said they stopped some lift at ~3:45 that was needed to get back to the base so he had to climb up a mountain. i take this with a full shaker of salt.


That is strange since you can get back from the Kennebago base to the resort base with out riding the lift.  All others access the base as well.  He apparently did not know!


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## Smellytele (Mar 24, 2021)

S


dblskifanatic said:


> That is strange since you can get back from the Kennebago base to the resort base with out riding the lift.  All others access the base as well.  He apparently did not know!


stupid is as stupid does


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2021)

If you somehow make it down to the South Branch and it's not running, then from that lift you would need to hike back up to the base lodge and it would be a substantial walk.  

Either ski patrol screwed up and didn't rope off those trails before the lift closed or this individual ducked a rope.

Speaking of the South Branch.  The parking is very limited at the base of the chair, but if you don't need to grab a ticket at the lodge, the best place to park is down there.


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## parahelia (Mar 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> If you somehow make it down to the South Branch and it's not running, then from that lift you would need to hike back up to the base lodge and it would be a substantial walk.
> 
> Either ski patrol screwed up and didn't rope off those trails before the lift closed or this individual ducked a rope.
> 
> Speaking of the South Branch.  The parking is very limited at the base of the chair, but if you don't need to grab a ticket at the lodge, the best place to park is down there.


I went down to the South Branch area when I was there last week, hoping the baby glades had softened before the higher elevation stuff.  I've got to say, that has to be one of the best learning areas around. Convenient parking, completely separate from the rest of the resort, lots of different ways down.  Easy to get back to the main area on the quad.  The families I saw were having a ball on the nearly empty midweek slopes.

Just don't expect to get back to the base area quickly on that quad.  Had a good laugh at the sign on the lift shack (below).


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2021)

I can't name a better learning complex than South Branch.  Perfect pitch for newbies and long.


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## Zand (Mar 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I can't name a better learning complex than South Branch.  Perfect pitch for newbies and long.


Didn't go down there but reminded me of the layout at Burke.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2021)

Very similar yes 

The one major difference being there's no base lodge at the base of South Branch, so it's almost entirely beginners skiing the terrain.  I look forward to working with my 3 year old on that terrain next season


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## Newpylong (Mar 25, 2021)

+1 for parking at South Branch with family. Can't beat that area for learning, wish the parking was bigger. My friend who works there since they're doing that and putting a couple yurts in this off-season. Pretty amazing area, the kids loved the progression features down there this year.


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## parahelia (Mar 25, 2021)

For entertainment value, I went to see what the gaper on skiology was complaining about.  He didn't get stranded by the South Branch quad (in which case he'd have a legitimate beef); he tried to get on the Rangeley HSQ right after it shut down at 3:55 pm.  While it is slightly downhill from the base lodge, the walk is a few minutes max. I know because the same thing happened to me at 3:58 pm last week when I was hoping for a last run.  It was annoying but no big deal.

People are weird.


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## cdskier (Mar 25, 2021)

parahelia said:


> For entertainment value, I went to see what the gaper on skiology was complaining about.  He didn't get stranded by the South Branch quad (in which case he'd have a legitimate beef); he tried to get on the Rangeley HSQ right after it shut down at 3:55 pm.  While it is slightly downhill from the base lodge, the walk is a few minutes max. I know because the same thing happened to me at 3:58 pm last week when I was hoping for a last run.  It was annoying but no big deal.
> 
> People are weird.



Yea...I'm not sure why people see a long lift line near closing time of a lift, get in it, and then somehow try to blame the mountain when they don't make it on the lift before it closes. That's the same mentality as people that go into a store 5 minutes before closing expecting to be able to spend a half hour shopping in there...


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## Newpylong (Mar 25, 2021)

Wow, that is such a short hike up to the lodge from Rangeley.


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## Edd (Mar 25, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Wow, that is such a short hike up to the lodge from Rangeley.


I could skate from the Rangeley to the lodge lower floor entrance in 15 seconds.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 25, 2021)

parahelia said:


> For entertainment value, I went to see what the gaper on skiology was complaining about.  He didn't get stranded by the South Branch quad (in which case he'd have a legitimate beef); he tried to get on the Rangeley HSQ right after it shut down at 3:55 pm.  While it is slightly downhill from the base lodge, the walk is a few minutes max. I know because the same thing happened to me at 3:58 pm last week when I was hoping for a last run.  It was annoying but no big deal.
> 
> People are weird.



good old Mook!

i find the weather posts to be pretty informative, but the overall vibe of that group fills me with a maybe not quite necessary level of rage.

"DAY 79 SKINNING HUNTER. I DRANK A BEER TODAY! LOOK AT ME!"


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## skef (Apr 14, 2021)

On a last-gasp, late-pandemic, late-spring, possibly-mid-life-crisis-fueled EV road trip, I find myself this evening sitting in a hotel room in Rangeley, ME.

I will ski Saddleback tomorrow, and maybe the next day, or maybe I’ll push further north to the Loaf. It’s my first time this far north in Maine. Will send pix and commentary when I can (see the Sunday River thread for today’s way station).

Quick Q for Indy Pass folks: how does it work at Saddleback? The Saddleback website doesn’t seem to give you an Indy Pass purchase option (if I’ve missed something, please rub my nose in it). Do I just walk up? Thanks!


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## Zand (Apr 14, 2021)

skef said:


> On a last-gasp, late-pandemic, late-spring, possibly-mid-life-crisis-fueled EV road trip, I find myself this evening sitting in a hotel room in Rangeley, ME.
> 
> I will ski Saddleback tomorrow, and maybe the next day, or maybe I’ll push further north to the Loaf. It’s my first time this far north in Maine. Will send pix and commentary when I can (see the Sunday River thread for today’s way station).
> 
> Quick Q for Indy Pass folks: how does it work at Saddleback? The Saddleback website doesn’t seem to give you an Indy Pass purchase option (if I’ve missed something, please rub my nose in it). Do I just walk up? Thanks!


Show license at ticket window. Just know they charge $10 to use the Indy Pass and $5 for the RFID card.


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## skef (Apr 14, 2021)

Zand said:


> Show license at ticket window. Just know they charge $10 to use the Indy Pass and $5 for the RFID card.


Reserve ahead of time or no? (Thanks for the quick response.)


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## Zand (Apr 14, 2021)

skef said:


> Reserve ahead of time or no? (Thanks for the quick response.)


No reservations.


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## skef (Apr 15, 2021)

Alright, Saddleback is now in the “been there, done that” column. I will be back (when there’s more snow).

Started out the day on Tight Line, the only one of the “Kennebago Steeps” still in play. Getting there required walking:


And Tight Line itself entailed some tight turns:


Royal Coachman skied a bit better (you can hit the top part from Grey Ghost via a little gap in the woods):


It’s a shame that my schedule + COVID travel restrictions kept me away during the heart of the season. This is a good mountain.


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## KustyTheKlown (Apr 15, 2021)

thank you for those pics. i was considering saddleback/sugarloaf this weekend, but its sooooo far, and those pics have convinced me its not worth the distance right now even if they pick up a foot.


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## foofy (Apr 15, 2021)

What a difference a couple weeks makes.  Mid-winter packed powder to...that.


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## soposkier (Apr 15, 2021)

I took a picture of Tight Line from almost the exact same spot on Saturday (4/10) for comparison!

Muleskinner and some woods were even skiable.


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## machski (Jul 9, 2021)

I have to say this real estate development is pretty damn cool and not you typical super luxo slopeside McMansions.  Has us seriously considering this.  The big question is Saddleback itself moving to a sustainable area/resort?









						Saddleback Maine Realty
					






					www.saddlebackmainerealty.com


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## Newpylong (Jul 10, 2021)

It is very cool. Adding beds IMHO is one of the most critical aspects for that mountain becoming sustainable.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 10, 2021)

Love the modest approach.  Far more my speed than the typically opulence built these days. 

And yes, increasing bed base is key to making Saddleback work.


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## x10003q (Jul 11, 2021)

machski said:


> I have to say this real estate development is pretty damn cool and not you typical super luxo slopeside McMansions.  Has us seriously considering this.  The big question is Saddleback itself moving to a sustainable area/resort?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good idea, but fantasy pricing on those A-frames


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## Edd (Jul 11, 2021)

x10003q said:


> Good idea, but fantasy pricing on those A-frames


Yeah, sounds like fantasy pricing but that’s literally the entire northeast real estate market so, sure, sounds crazy to me and I’ll never pay it.


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## mister moose (Jul 12, 2021)

'Modest approach' is fine, but didn't A-frames go out with VW camper buses and 8 track tapes?  No light in the sides, tons of low ceilings, and a tunnel floor plan.  I guess you'll never need to shovel the roof, but at ~$500 sq ft, it seems extremely pricy for a resort 80 miles past nowhere and is just now trying to re-build a customer base.  

By comparison, you can get a slope side condo at Jay, which is only 30 miles from an interstate, albeit a few years old, for $267 a sq ft, nearly half the price.





						145 Bridge Rd # VC346, Jay Peak, VT 05859 | realtor.com®
					

View detailed information about property 145 Bridge Rd # VC346, Jay Peak, VT 05859 including listing details, property photos, school and neighborhood data, and much more.




					www.realtor.com


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## machski (Jul 12, 2021)

mister moose said:


> 'Modest approach' is fine, but didn't A-frames go out with VW camper buses and 8 track tapes?  No light in the sides, tons of low ceilings, and a tunnel floor plan.  I guess you'll never need to shovel the roof, but at ~$500 sq ft, it seems extremely pricy for a resort 80 miles past nowhere and is just now trying to re-build a customer base.
> 
> By comparison, you can get a slope side condo at Jay, which is only 30 miles from an interstate, albeit a few years old, for $267 a sq ft, nearly half the price.
> 
> ...


Yes, and that is a condo and these are stand alone homes.  Single family trailside homes would need to be the true comparison and there is nothing like these trailside anywhere, both size and price.  I would think if SR put these up trailside at SR, you would need to add a quarter million to each pricetag.  At SB right now, it is a bit high and a bit of a gamble given the area's operating history.  You could lose, but you could win big if they become sustainable and grow.


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## NYDB (Jul 12, 2021)

mister moose said:


> 'Modest approach' is fine, but didn't A-frames go out with VW camper buses and 8 track tapes?  No light in the sides, tons of low ceilings, and a tunnel floor plan.  I guess you'll never need to shovel the roof, but at ~$500 sq ft, it seems extremely pricy for a resort 80 miles past nowhere and is just now trying to re-build a customer base.
> 
> By comparison, you can get a slope side condo at Jay, which is only 30 miles from an interstate, albeit a few years old, for $267 a sq ft, nearly half the price.
> 
> ...


A frames are having a bit of a resurgence, just like fanny packs and boot cut jeans 









						A-frame houses stage a massive comeback for the Instagram age
					

You’d better bring your A game, because these quirky angular abodes are in demand once again.




					nypost.com
				












						Why A-Frames Are So Popular
					

Why have these triangle-shaped structures surged in popularity over the last few years? To answer the question of how a-frames have become a sensation in modern America, we must first revisit their history.




					www.cabinlife.com


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## deadheadskier (Jul 12, 2021)

mister moose said:


> 'Modest approach' is fine, but didn't A-frames go out with VW camper buses and 8 track tapes?  No light in the sides, tons of low ceilings, and a tunnel floor plan.  I guess you'll never need to shovel the roof, but at ~$500 sq ft, it seems extremely pricy for a resort 80 miles past nowhere and is just now trying to re-build a customer base.
> 
> By comparison, you can get a slope side condo at Jay, which is only 30 miles from an interstate, albeit a few years old, for $267 a sq ft, nearly half the price.
> 
> ...



I personally like A frame style vacation cottages.  As pointed out above, they're making a resurgence.  I also like craftsman style homes. Many of the newer developments near the NH sea coast are craftsman style and many of them are smaller in square footage.

I'll take a modest slopeside development of free standing cottages over a condo in a large building in a Faux Swiss Village.


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## tipsdown (Jul 12, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> A frames are having a bit of a resurgence, just like fanny packs and boot cut jeans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been told they can't keep up...Price is not scaring anyone away. Everything they can commit to building for this coming ski season is already sold. The remainder of the buildout (next year) is almost fully committed.


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## KustyTheKlown (Jul 12, 2021)

i love a-frames, and as a couple with no intention for kids it works for us. I'm just starting to work half-time in office again and I actually really like being back and interacting with people and getting out of the house, but if I were to ever go back to a long-term full time remote situation, a slopeside A frame like this would fit the bill. saddleback is awfully far away tho.


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## salsgang (Jul 12, 2021)

A-Frames look pretty sweet and like Tipsdown I hear inbound interest is very strong. It seems to have a community vibe - there is a central common area with campfire pit. Will be interesting to see how it develops. Another cool thing Saddleback is doing in 2022 is converting some prime trailside real estate into employee housing which is pretty awesome. I wrote up a blog entry on the project here.


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## Newpylong (Jul 13, 2021)

You really cannot beat an A-Frame for a ski/part time home. The roof requires no maintenance, the floor plan is simple, sq footage is maximized, etc.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2021)

Saddleback breaks ground on new ski lodge
					

The ski area is investing $9 million in improvements to the mountain, including a new mid-mountain lodge, 2 new eco-diesel snow groomers, 3 new lifts, and more




					www.newscentermaine.com
				




And just for Benedict Gomez:  



> Mating season for [the Bicknell Thrush] is from May 1 through the end of July. As a result, Saddleback delayed construction until August.


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## snoseek (Aug 6, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Saddleback breaks ground on new ski lodge
> 
> 
> The ski area is investing $9 million in improvements to the mountain, including a new mid-mountain lodge, 2 new eco-diesel snow groomers, 3 new lifts, and more
> ...


The restaurant folk they're bringing in are very talented people


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## deadheadskier (Aug 6, 2021)

snoseek said:


> The restaurant folk they're bringing in are very talented people


Yeah, wow.  When I was in the business, I used to sell meats to Andrew when he first bought Hugo's.  Helluva a chef and a great guy


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## thetrailboss (Aug 6, 2021)

snoseek said:


> The restaurant folk they're bringing in are very talented people


These folks mean business.  I'm happy for the locals who had to suffer through the closure.  It seems that this is a much better ownership/management group than the Australian EB-5 scammer who was going to take it over.


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## machski (Aug 6, 2021)

snoseek said:


> The restaurant folk they're bringing in are very talented people


Honestly, if they are going into that space, they need to go this route.  SR raised the bar with The Mountain Room in The Peak Lodge and the Last Run Room at the summit hotel (both are Harding Lee Smith establishments partner with SR).  Still, for a freshly rekindled resort, they are going full steam ahead and making smart decision IMHO too.  Seems very sustainable this time around.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 6, 2021)

I used to sell to Harding too.  

Harding is a great chef in Portland too, but knowing them both pretty well, the motivation is a little bit different. 

Harding is all about big traffic, massive revenue and shorter margins.  So a ski area factory like SR makes a lot of sense for his business model.

Andrew is a little different.  More focused on a more mellow restaurant experience with higher quality and margins.  That's changed some since when he started out. Just a more low key approach. So Saddleback makes perfect sense.  

I'm loving every single move the new owners at SB are making.  From the new HSQ , their approach to real estate, and now reading this about the new lodge and partnering with Andrew.  
If I lived an hour closer, they'd have my pass business hands down over any ski area in the East between the terrain, snow and how they're running the place. Exactly what I want out of a New England ski experience.


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## JimG. (Aug 7, 2021)

Sounds like Saddleback is going to take the anti-megapass route and cater to folks who are looking for that business model. Less hype, more substance. Emphasize a genuine skiing experience and charge more for it. There are many people such as myself who would go for that without hesitation.  

That's a smart move. Wish I lived closer.


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## ScottySkis (Aug 7, 2021)

"Notice! The GoldenOak concert scheduled for this evening has been cancelled. We’ve had an employee test positive for Covid this afternoon. That employee has been vaccinated, but is still capable of transmitting the virus, so out of an abundance of caution we are cancelling tonight’s concert and will be closing the pub. We know how excited everyone has been for this event and regret the inconvenience. If you purchased a ticket ahead of time through Eventbrite, you will recieve a full refund.""


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## x10003q (Aug 7, 2021)

JimG. said:


> Sounds like Saddleback is going to take the anti-megapass route and cater to folks who are looking for that business model. Less hype, more substance. Emphasize a genuine skiing experience and charge more for it. There are many people such as myself who would go for that without hesitation.
> 
> That's a smart move. *Wish I lived closer.*


Wish I lived closer, too. 
All this new stuff does not matter if they can't convince people to make the drive.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 7, 2021)

True about the drive.  At minimum it's our February family ski vacation destination moving forward.  Had an awesome time this year there


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## machski (Aug 8, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I used to sell to Harding too.
> 
> Harding is a great chef in Portland too, but knowing them both pretty well, the motivation is a little bit different.
> 
> ...


Interesting on the differing styles and it does sound like they match up to each nicely.  Still, SR set the bar in terms of partnering with lest I say premier establishments to raise the on hill dining game.  Saddleback was wise to do similar for their new location even if the styles of the partner are different (but correct for each resort).  Have a feeling you will see more of this across the industry in the East going forward


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## ScottySkis (Aug 8, 2021)

""
A message to the Saddleback Family -

On Thursday, August 5 an employee dined at the Saddleback Pub at approximately 1PM. Because of the presence of symptoms, that employee was tested for COVID-19 on Friday, August 6 and the results came back positive on Saturday August 7 early in the afternoon. Due to the nature of the employee’s interactions with mountain staff and patrons, it is highly unlikely that they were exposed to the virus. The employee did not feel that he / she came in, “close contact,” with any patrons or other staff members. The CDC defines, “Close contact, “ as “within 6 feet for a duration of 15 minutes or longer.”  

Out of an abundance of caution, we closed all services and events at the mountain for Saturday, August 7 and Sunday August 8, to allow time to conduct interviews and gather all relevant data. In collaboration with a CDC expert we will continue to closely monitor the situation and will provide information as needed. As always, Saddleback Mountain will continue to follow CDC guidelines and recommendations, we remain committed to providing a safe environment for staff and guests.

- Andy Shepard, CEO & General Manager""


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## thetrailboss (Aug 9, 2021)

The pandemic is still going......


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## dblskifanatic (Aug 10, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> The pandemic is still going......



Yup many concerts have been getting canceled


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## raisingarizona (Aug 10, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> The pandemic is still going......


The junk is everywhere around here right now and a lot of vaccinated folks I know are getting it, many for their second time.


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## Smellytele (Aug 10, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> The junk is everywhere around here right now and a lot of vaccinated folks I know are getting it, many for their second time.


But are symptoms less severe in the vaccinated? While even so kind of defeats the theory of it not being able to mutate because people are vaccinated as it still could in the vaccinated that catch it…


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## dblskifanatic (Aug 10, 2021)

This is all rather chaotic!  I think there is so much guessing going on and part of the reason people have been reluctant.  There are people that had Covid and getting Covid a second time and one of the more visible is Lamar Jackson.  Then there are people who have been vaccinated and are getting Covid.  That being said how many may go undetected if asymptomatic or are getting confused as if they are allergies.  The numbers being reported are only those that have been tested or treated, so culd be way worse than led to believe.   My neighbors are vaccinated but are back to wearing masks all the time do to the fears that Delta variant is very contagious and they are not the only ones doing so.  Concerts and large public events are starting to get canceled.  Vaccination requirements are starting to become a requirement but does not prevent spread necessarily.  There were riots in France over the implementation of the green pass.  Lots of conflict over the start of classes this fall - no masks / masks/remote learning etc,

It is a mess!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 10, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> But are symptoms less severe in the vaccinated?


Yes.


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## dblskifanatic (Aug 10, 2021)

> Smellytele said:
> But are symptoms less severe in the vaccinated?





thetrailboss said:


> Yes.



reported on the local news today in MA

100 Fully Vaccinated People Have Died From COVID in Mass.​


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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 10, 2021)

yea? out of how many vaccinated people? give me a fucking break with this bullshit.


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## skiur (Aug 10, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> reported on the local news today in MA
> 
> 100 Fully Vaccinated People Have Died From COVID in Mass.​



I'd bet you that at least 99 of them had preexisting conditions that immunocompromised them.


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## chuckstah (Aug 10, 2021)

skiur said:


> I'd bet you that at least 99 of them had preexisting conditions that immunocompromised them.


About 75 percent had underlying conditions, and the average age is 82. The vaccine works as intended.


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## Smellytele (Aug 10, 2021)

skiur said:


> I'd bet you that at least 99 of them had preexisting conditions that immunocompromised them.


How many before there was a vaccine died had preexisting conditions % wise?


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## Smellytele (Aug 10, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> About 75 percent had underlying conditions, and the average age is 82. The vaccine works as intended.


What were those numbers pre vaccine?


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## dblskifanatic (Aug 10, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> About 75 percent had underlying conditions, and the average age is 82. The vaccine works as intended.



but the push was to get those people vaccinated first - apparently still deadly for them.  Did it create a false sense of security?


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## skiur (Aug 10, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> About 75 percent had underlying conditions, and the average age is 82. The vaccine works as intended.



Exactly, the common cold could have killed them


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## dblskifanatic (Aug 10, 2021)

just realized the saddleback thread got infected!  Need new Saddleback news to get this back on track


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## skiur (Aug 10, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> just realized the saddleback thread got infected!  Need new Saddleback news to get this back on track



The new varients are highly contagious!


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## deadheadskier (Aug 10, 2021)

Yeah, let's keep the Covid stuff to the other thread.


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## 2Planker (Aug 10, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> reported on the local news today in MA
> 
> 100 Fully Vaccinated People Have Died From COVID in Mass.​


The 100 deaths out of nearly 4.3 million vaccinated residents represents a rate of just 0.002%.
 Nuf Said


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## PAabe (Aug 10, 2021)

Saddleback Seeks Environmental Balance with New Mid-Mountain Lodge
					

Saddleback Mountain broke ground on building a mid-mountain lodge structure. Here are some interesting things to know about the new building.




					www.maineskifamily.com
				




I know there was already an article about this in here but this has some drawings of the concept


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## skef (Aug 10, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Saddleback Seeks Environmental Balance with New Mid-Mountain Lodge
> 
> 
> Saddleback Mountain broke ground on building a mid-mountain lodge structure. Here are some interesting things to know about the new building.
> ...


Thanks. Looks pretty darn cool!


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## Edd (Sep 17, 2021)




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## deadheadskier (Sep 17, 2021)

Edd said:


> View attachment 51942



As much as I like T Bars, I really wish they went with a chair and maybe a realignment dropping the base down to the lodge area. 

The T bar lifeline was a great bump run last season.  It will be missed


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## machski (Sep 17, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> As much as I like T Bars, I really wish they went with a chair and maybe a realignment dropping the base down to the lodge area.
> 
> The T bar lifeline was a great bump run last season.  It will be missed


I believe they were going to put a new Sandy chair in that would run for m the base lodge up to a point you could grab the T-Bar from.  Did not see anything happening on that when we were up last weekend.  Also thought they were using the Rangeley Double's drive for that (it was fairly new IIRC).


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## deadheadskier (Sep 17, 2021)

I believe that's the plan too.  I just see the Sandy lift as really short and a waste of staffing an energy when 1 chair extended could cover the terrain.

But really I just wanted that bump run to stay.  It was really nice last season


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## Zand (Sep 17, 2021)

I loved that liftline as well. I rarely ski bump runs on purpose any more but that and Peachy's Peril were a blast when I was there. Bump lines were kind of gentle and fun.


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## machski (Sep 17, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I believe that's the plan too.  I just see the Sandy lift as really short and a waste of staffing an energy when 1 chair extended could cover the terrain.
> 
> But really I just wanted that bump run to stay.  It was really nice last season


A la Misery Whip on the other side of the range.  I get that and would have been cool, but I also get why a surface is important at SB and SL for that matter.  I would guess Sandy would be more a backup lift of the new Rangeley is down due wind/MX rather than a dedicated full time lift.  If so, cobbling a lift together from used parts isn't a bad way to go on such low angle terrain.


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## Newpylong (Sep 18, 2021)

Installing a "realigned" chair in lieu of the T-Bar is a non-starter for several reasons. One of the driving factors for a surface lift there was to provide redundancy in high wind conditions. The Sandy Lift will be replaced and is not a waste of staffing because it will serve the terrain park(s) in normal operation. For this season there will be a portable handle tow. Also, depending on lower terminal location, it would either require massive cutting or towers along a good portion of Grey's - not an option with its homolugation. 

Also keep in mind many people "discovered" SB last season and beginner options are non-existent off Rangeley if Lower Hudson is not filled in. The trails off Sandy albeit short are a step up off South Branch,  and South Branch was busy busy this winter so demand is there.

The ideal solution if wind did not exist would be a weekend only aerial lift on the same line as the T-Bar.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 18, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Installing a "realigned" chair in lieu of the T-Bar is a non-starter for several reasons. One of the driving factors for a surface lift there was to provide redundancy in high wind conditions. The Sandy Lift will be replaced and is not a waste of staffing because it will serve the terrain park(s) in normal operation. For this season there will be a portable handle tow. Also, depending on lower terminal location, it would either require massive cutting or towers along a good portion of Grey's



I'm not naive Newpy.  I get the wind redundancy.  I also don't see a FG chair at that elevation on that mountain getting shutdown often.  The vast majority of ski areas in New England don't bother with surface lifts as a hedge against wind. 

What I do see is a much greater benefit of having a second lift coming out of the base that accesses most of the upper mountain terrain than the combo of Sandy plus T Bar.  As the mountain hopefully gains popularity, the Rangeley chair is going to see significant lines on the weekends.  Having a FG quad leaving from the same area would help that a lot.

And you're not necessarily right about Grey's.  If the bottom terminal of that lift was on the opposite side of the trail from the terrain park, it wouldn't even cross Grey to end at where the T Bar terminates.  It would cross Belle, but not Grays

Granted my idea is far more expensive, but the benefits would be worth it IMO from a people moving perspective.  And you gain a sweet bump run.


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## Newpylong (Sep 18, 2021)

No, see attached. 

Also, there is real estate development planned along Lower Hudson in the future. On a busy day those folks could boot up and essentially have direct to lift access, even if it's a surface lift.

I'm just commenting on management's thought process, and that's not even mentioning cost. They have gone through all of these scenarios and chose what they felt was the best course all things considered. Bound to be dissent like everything else.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 19, 2021)

Um are we talking about the same trail? Gray Ghost?  Your screenshot shows maybe 50 feet of that trail being impacted on the very edge about half way up, if that.

Wasn't aware of that real estate plan location.  They'd be wise to look at Sugarloaf in regards to development placement and not make a mistake that could end up impacting lift and trail flow for future development.   At SL they put those condos in above and to lookers right of the Superquad.   I bet they'd wish they had a do over because it makes the flow from the Bucksaw area and future west mountain expansion a bit wonky to get back to the main base.


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## Newpylong (Sep 19, 2021)

Yes, I placed the line there to show an alignment that does not interfere with the trail as you described that would work. However, if you look at the lower portion / base terminal you will see it would need to traverse and terminate in the middle of the base facilities.

There is no rideable terrain potential for the development locations along Hudson as they are proposed to simply be extending what's already there just south of the trail. Nothing up on the actual map.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 19, 2021)

It's more potential lift placement that I'm thinking about.  Having a second chair coming out of the base.  With my example of SL, the condo placement really made things difficult for their move West requiring a whole new base area, which obviously takes considerably more staffing resources.  Had those condos not gone in, you probably could have made a more integrated Bucksaw area with a new chair going in with it's base near the Superquad.  

Everyone's vision isn't always going to align.   I see their point in redundancy.  I also see mine being a more useful longer term strategy for capacity and flow out of the base.


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## Newpylong (Sep 19, 2021)

I agree, if their visits climb substantially (which is a good thing) I am sure Rangeley is going to be a bottleneck quickly. That lift at least moves people pretty quickly out of the base area.


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## tipsdown (Sep 20, 2021)

I see both sides here....my vision was exactly the same as Deadheads but I've heard the the next move to open new terrain will be a a high speed lift up to the top of the nubble lookers left of the Rangeley base terminal (the sub peak at the bottom of Muleskinner).  This would be a new base area further down hill to the east of the South Branch. No definitive timeframe on that but that will ultimately be a long pricey lift and I'm sure their mindful of that.  It should provide a lot of nice intermediate terrain....


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## Newpylong (Sep 20, 2021)

Bring back the uncompleted Gondola! jk lol.


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## tipsdown (Sep 20, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Bring back the uncompleted Gondola! jk lol.


 No wind issues there!


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## gittist (Nov 16, 2021)

Does Saddleback Ski Area have webcams?  I don't see the planned opening day on their webpage, Twitter, or FB.  Any info appreciated.  

Plan A is to ski Wildcat on the way back from Maine in mid-December but it looks like it may be another season of Vail-itis so we're looking for a Plan B.  Between the no-help situation and their COVID policies it doesn't look much better than last season


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## salsgang (Nov 16, 2021)

gittist said:


> Does Saddleback Ski Area have webcams?  I don't see the planned opening day on their webpage, Twitter, or FB.  Any info appreciated.
> 
> Plan A is to ski Wildcat on the way back from Maine in mid-December but it looks like it may be another season of Vail-itis so we're looking for a Plan B.  Between the no-help situation and their COVID policies it doesn't look much better than last season


They (Saddleback) have talked about adding them in the past but don't have the up to my knowledge.


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## salsgang (Feb 13, 2022)

Couple of recent developments: 

3 good webcams are now available: https://www.saddlebackmaine.com/webcams/

Some of the Phase 1 units in the Parmachenee development built on-mountain are nearing completion. The A-Frames situated against the snow and mountain are quite a sharp look. Real estate site: https://www.saddlebackmainerealty.com/a-frames


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## PAabe (Feb 13, 2022)

as someone who is usually very critical about the architecture of new developments, those look pretty slick


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## Edd (Feb 13, 2022)

PAabe said:


> as someone who is usually very critical about the architecture of new developments, those look pretty slick


A few weeks ago Instagram comments implied $500K-ish for a smaller one; can’t confirm. I like the look of them. Nice on-hill housing at Saddleback sure sounds fucking great.


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## Edd (Sep 10, 2022)

Instagram post on the new mid-mountain lodge. We’re booked for next March already, cannot wait to see how it turns out. 









						Saddleback Ski Area on Instagram: "This could be your office. The new Mid Mountain Lodge at Saddleback will be opening this winter, and we want an inspired chef to prepare simple but creative dishes, year-round in this unique setting.   If you know a
					

Saddleback Ski Area shared a post on Instagram: "This could be your office. The new Mid Mountain Lodge at Saddleback will be opening this winter, and we want an inspired chef to prepare simple but creative dishes, year-round in this unique setting.   If you know a culinary star who might be a...




					www.instagram.com


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## deadheadskier (Sep 10, 2022)

That's going to be really nice to have for a couple of reasons.  Addresses the need for more dining space in a really cool setting and it's location probably will also help reduce lines at the Rangeley.   Folks skiing off the Kennebago won't have to go to the base to eat or warm up.


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## Smellytele (Sep 10, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> That's going to be really nice to have for a couple of reasons.  Addresses the need for more dining space in a really cool setting and it's location probably will also help reduce lines at the Rangeley.   Folks skiing off the Kennebago won't have to go to the base to eat or warm up.


Is there a road to get there in the summer? It’s at the base of the kennebago where the grilled cheese yurt used to be?


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## Edd (Sep 10, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Is there a road to get there in the summer? It’s at the base of the kennebago where the grilled cheese yurt used to be?


No, this is at the top of the Rangeley quad.


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## Smellytele (Sep 11, 2022)

I guess that is midmountain side to side not top to bottom


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## Newpylong (Sep 11, 2022)

Since the place is really broken up into 1/3s its about as mid-mountain as you can get without putting a lodge in the middle of the Rangeley Quad.


----------

