# Dogs on Franconia Ridge Trail?



## mrzilliox (Apr 30, 2007)

finally gonna make it up to Franconia Ridge Trail this summer and wanted to ask about dogs on the trail.  probably the Flume>Lafayette day hike with 2 cars.

I've got a 7 year old, 90# malamute who never goes off-leash and has been with me on all my hikes (5-10 mile dayhikes in Mass, VT, and NH) in the last 3 years.  

1. are there any ladders or other major obstacles that I'm not reading about in trip reports?

2. Is the actual ridge trail comparable to the Knife Edge?  gotta be honest, I used both hands getting across that thing and wouldn't bring a leashed dog up there even if it was legal.  Franconia doesn't seem to be as narrow from what I've seen.  comments?

3.  are dogs common on that trail? 

4.  would like to time our hike for post-mud and pre-summer heat & crowds.  late June do-able or does this spring seem wetter than usual?

thanks folks.


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## cbcbd (Apr 30, 2007)

Answering what I can:

2.Does not compare to Knife Edge - the KE is much narrower. Never on the ridge do you feel like you'll fall to your death if you don't watch your step. 

3.There are people that have taken their dogs almost everywhere in the Whites. I haven't seen dogs while there, but I'm sure there have been dogs on the trail.

4.The Whites don't get too soggy, I wouldn't worry about it. Anytime in June and forward should be fine. There might be some lingering snow in some spots, but that we'll have to wait and see.


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## Mike P. (Apr 30, 2007)

If you are going on a weekend, it will be crowded, it often is crowded even on winter weekends too.

What is your approach, Flume Slide?  What has your dog done?  I don't recall any ladders, I may have forgotten a two or three rung one, largest man made structures used on a trail (not the Hut) are on the Osseo which goes up from Lincoln Woods.  I fogret if there is just one or two, one I would call a staircase not a ladder though. May also be under repair currently

I can't think of any terrain I've been on in MA that would be comparable.  Where in VT & NH has your dog been?  A friend used to have a 80+ pound dog he hiked with but the dog did not like real steep terrain.  (I recall some coddling & prodding on the upper part of Pine Bend Brook trail)

If you go up Flume Slide, there are some steep parts a dog may be uncomfortable with, others might bound up it.  Going up both Liberty & Little Haystack there is some short steep terrain over uneven rocks a dog might be uncomfortable on.  Some dogs probably have no problem.

No place as narrow as KE but also not much water for a dog once you get onto FRT, might find some in the cols.  I would say dogs are not common up there, I can't actually recall one (in about 10-12 trips) but unless they aren't allowed I'd be shocked if I haven't seen a few & have just forgotten them.  Trip is longer than 5-10 miles,  With two cars, off the top of my head I'm thinking 12 or so.  Much of the terrain, especially higher up is all rock so watching your pet's pads could be an issue. 

RIght now Spring seems colder than usual & therefore more snowy than usual.  It could (might be) be wetter as the snow melts.  My initial thought on when to go is that your dog is more suited to cooler temps.  I have all weather gear so if I had a malamute I'd have looked at when there was a bit of snow through April (limit 4 hours or car ride with muddy dog) or having missed that would look at 09/15 - year end.   If going in September, if possible try a weekday, even Friday to avoid the masses.


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## David Metsky (Apr 30, 2007)

Flume Slide is going to be tricky with a dog.  The ridge isn't a problem, but the wet sections of the slide are going to be tough for a 90# malamute unless he's known to be a great scrambler.

The ridge is just a walk, dog won't even notice that.  There are often dogs up there and people, so the leash is a good idea.  Dogs aren't allowed in the hut, but you can get water for him there.  Try to keep him out of Eagle Lake if possible.

If you go up Liberty Springs or Falling Waters it'll be much easier on the dog.

 -dave-


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## mrzilliox (May 1, 2007)

wow, thank you very much for the feedback

he's not a great scrambler, but what he lacks in skill he makes up for in brute strength.  we got him as a stray 3 years ago, and I don't think he'd been hiking at all before I took him, but he gets better every time out.  

probably the most demanding trail we did was a 10 or 12 mile loop on Greylock last spring.  several other day trips to NH last fall, and our local favorite, the "treacherous" Wilson Mountain in Dedham, Mass.  

fatigue isn't a problem for him, but the pad thing could be, thanks for the heads up.  I'll definitely look at avoiding that Flume Slide and do Liberty Springs or Falling Waters on the way up.


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## Mike P. (May 1, 2007)

Try Mt. Wachusetts & Monadnock to get your dog used to rocky terrain.  Monadnock will definietly have it, Wachusetts requires finding the right trails, some are pretty rocky.


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## David Metsky (May 1, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> Monadnock will definietly have it,


No dogs allowed in Monadnock State Park.  They'll kick you off the summit if you arrive with a dog via one of the other routes.


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## tjf67 (May 2, 2007)

As long as the dog in in control he will be able to handle the whole hike.  Do you get him out often for hikes? his pads should be callused up.  His feet wont hurt him any more than yours.  
I have a 7 year old springer that has hiked all over the place.  He seems to scramble up steeps just as good as I do.  I do believe if you leash him you would be putting him and yourself in danger.  
I have encountered people that were not very impressed seeing a dog on the trail but I dont care.  Those people are just mad that the world does not revolve around them.  The rangers are usually pretty cool about it.  Just dont flaunt it.  Get him out and on the trail and enjoy the hike with your friend.


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## Mike P. (May 2, 2007)

I've never hiked with a dog of my own, I was unaware of the Monadnock rule, thanks Dave.  FWIW, Monadnock to a place above the trees but not the summit is still a nice hike.

If Cardigan allows dogs, it's similar to Monadnock as far as height & a rocky summit.


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## Angus (May 10, 2007)

I discovered Pack and North Pack Monadnock as a consequence of NH's state parks ban on all canines. the hound & I drove over to Monadnock one morning and they turned me around at the gate. The park ranger recommended Pack and North Pack! There are plenty of other trailheads that are unmonitored that provide access to the summit. Of course, I'm not sure about summit and trail patrols.

I know that in past years, I've been walking thru Lafayette campground with the hound unleashed and they have told me to put him on a leash immediately and explained the NH park rule. They acknowledged that the national park was just above me and I could continue as long as the dog was under control.

A few years ago, I hiked Lafayette via carriage road and down falling waters on July 4th - reached the summit at 7 AM without a cloud in the sky nor person on the ridge (for the entire stretch)! Coming down Falling Waters, I met a person whose dog had run off from their camp site off the trail - felt so bad b/c it was very high up and fairly close to some of the ravines. i told everyone I met going down (which was non-stop traffic by 10ish when I reached the parking lot) to be on the lookout - always wondered if the owner ever found the dog...

I've found big dogs with good leg clearance are fine even in rock scrambles - problems can be when it's extremely steep or the human doesn't have the strength to clean jerk the animal up and over ledges - found I've needed to do that on the Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail.


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## Bumpsis (May 13, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> I have encountered people that were not very impressed seeing a dog on the trail but I dont care.  Those people are just mad that the world does not revolve around them.  The rangers are usually pretty cool about it.  Just dont flaunt it.  Get him out and on the trail and enjoy the hike with your friend.



I think you really lack a bit of perspective. 
People that disapprove of dogs on hiking trails may do so not beacuse they "are just mad that the world does not revolve around them" but because an unleashed dog may present an imposition which to some degree interferes with their right to enjoy  their hike.

This especially is the case when people hike with smaller children. To a child, even a medium size dog may represent a threat. What they see is a loose animal with big teeth  claws, agility and speed, with a size that easily reaches a child's chest or bigger.

So to put it on adult size scale, imagine, if you can that you're hiking along and a beast the size of a little pony with big teeth and claws is running at you, expressing interest in you, its intentions unknown. 
To a dog owner, they're just out with a friend, a friendly pooch that wouldn't hurt a fly. So, no need to put him a leash. To a child and its parent, it's a potential threat and fright.

When hiking with my kids, when they were smaller, upon encountering a loose dog, we would just stop as not to provoke dog's interest and wait intil they passed by. When repeated often enough, such accomodation does become an annoyance and an imposition. So, in a way, it's the dog owners who thoughtlessly make others revolve around them.

Then, there is issue of dog waste. Just about everyone lets their dog poop where it will.
Some people will make the effort to bury the waste, but that's rare. It's a real treat to step into this stuff and dog owners pretend like it's not a probelm. It is.
That's the reason why dogs are banned at Monadnack. Given the hiker traffic up there, if dogs were allowed, the trails would be littered with dog waste.

I personally like dogs, and don't mind their presence on the trails as long as they are leashed and their waste is taken care of.


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## Skier75 (May 13, 2007)

Bumpsis said:


> I think you really lack a bit of perspective.
> People that disapprove of dogs on hiking trails may do so not beacuse they "are just mad that the world does not revolve around them" but because an unleashed dog may present an imposition which to some degree interferes with their right to enjoy  their hike.
> 
> This especially is the case when people hike with smaller children. To a child, even a medium size dog may represent a threat. What they see is a loose animal with big teeth  claws, agility and speed, with a size that easily reaches a child's chest or bigger.
> ...




I have to say that we're lucky enough, our dog, Suzie is a great hiker, even at her 12 yrs. Without even telling her where to go, she intentionally goes off trail, always, and we have to stop her from going too far by telling her, "that's a good place" and does her business, bounding back to the trail happily. She is always scouting out someplace for us to stop overnight by going a little off trial and looking back at us like, how 'bout this?

My husband helps her up and down tough places, but mostly she can get up and down spots by herself, granted she's only about 50lbs too. Most of the time she comes with us, but there are times we don't take her due to some rules and regulations.


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## Bergamo (May 13, 2007)

I have been re-reading "Backwoods Ethics" by the Waterman's. They devote a chapter about bringing dogs onto the trails.


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