# Killington 2016-7: It's On!



## joshua segal (Oct 11, 2016)

It's on!  Two of my Killington buddies skied Rime today and sent me photos.  Don't know when they'll spin the lifts, but any claims to first runs of the eastern season are no longer available!


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## steamboat1 (Oct 11, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> It's on!  Two of my Killington buddies skied Rime today and sent me photos.  Don't know when they'll spin the lifts, but any claims to first runs of the eastern season are no longer available!


It was already skied yesterday.


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## Smellytele (Oct 11, 2016)

posted yesterday at 7:25


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## dlague (Oct 11, 2016)

Actually 9/24/2016 Silverton Mountain


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## WWF-VT (Oct 11, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> posted yesterday at 7:25



That looks like some fast grass


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## joshua segal (Oct 11, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> It was already skied yesterday.



I assumed as much which is why I worded my posting carefully.  I didn't say they were first.  I said, "any claims to first runs of the eastern season are no longer available!"

Predictions anybody, when the lifts spin?


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## dlague (Oct 11, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> I assumed as much which is why I worded my posting carefully.  I didn't say they were first.  I said, "any claims to first runs of the eastern season are no longer available!"
> 
> Predictions anybody, when the lifts spin?



Hoping for a date in October, posted by Killington.  Small window this weekend but followed by a warming trend.  The next cold trendstarts again on Friday the 21st but can they make enough for Saturday - doubt it!  Maybe a pass holder day on Sunday 23rd is possible with minimal open and hiking down and up the stairs.  The real opportunity looks like the 29th with colder temps at night for a sustained period leading up to that day.


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## Smellytele (Oct 11, 2016)

dlague said:


> Actually 9/24/2016 Silverton Mountain




Silverton is in the East?


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 11, 2016)

i generally get my first turns on veterans day. ONE MONTH!


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## drjeff (Oct 11, 2016)

Nothing against Silverton at all... Just saying though that in past years, their marketing crew has been called out for taking pictures at certain angles and distances that makes 6-10" of early season snow look more like 3-4 feet of powder..  The Silverton Fall camera shot may be the Western equivalent of the "Jay ruler" in the East ;-)


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## Los (Oct 11, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i generally get my first turns on veterans day. ONE MONTH!



I hope you're right! I'm counting on Bretton woods being open by the Sunday before thanksgiving. Anything before that will be a huge bonus. 

Not killington though - we experienced the early season north ridge madhouse last year for the first and last time. My then 8 yr old had 3 collisions and the line was absurdly, ridiculously long. 

I'm really hoping lynx opens early, but that's based on my assumption that wildcat's early season crowds pale in comparison to the killington insanity. Is that a bad assumption to make? 


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 11, 2016)

i went on veterans day last year. they never scanned my max pass at the gondola. i took 4 runs on north ridge and then a transformer blew out and the lift conked out. eventually they got it up on a generator but only for the purpose of getting people to the walkway back to k1. at the bottom everyone got free anyday vouchers. i took it as a win. i also take it to mean that for those willing to hike, north ridge rides are free during the early season, because no one seems to be checking at the triple chair.


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## benski (Oct 11, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i went on veterans day last year. they never scanned my max pass at the gondola. i took 4 runs on north ridge and then a transformer blew out and the lift conked out. eventually they got it up on a generator but only for the purpose of getting people to the walkway back to k1. at the bottom everyone got free anyday vouchers. i took it as a win. i also take it to mean that for those willing to hike, north ridge rides are free during the early season, because no one seems to be checking at the triple chair.



Nobody checks becouse your probably not supposed to hike up without a ticket.


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## KustyTheKlown (Oct 11, 2016)

thank you for that very insightful comment


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## yeggous (Oct 11, 2016)

Los said:


> I hope you're right! I'm counting on Bretton woods being open by the Sunday before thanksgiving. Anything before that will be a huge bonus.
> 
> Not killington though - we experienced the early season north ridge madhouse last year for the first and last time. My then 8 yr old had 3 collisions and the line was absurdly, ridiculously long.
> 
> ...



Wildcat is generally quiet early season. By Thanksgiving things can get overcrowded relative to conditions if things get icy.

The biggest difference between Wildcat vs Killington or Bretton Woods is the difficulty of the trail. Lynx is a much more challenging trail than they offer early season. You will feel the burn to be sure. I've been able to ski BW or Killington all day on my first day out, but three runs at Wildcat and my legs are not having fun.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 11, 2016)

I'll wait, Dec 1-2, maybe Nov. 30


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## deadheadskier (Oct 11, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Wildcat is generally quiet early season.



Last year being the exception. It certainly wasn't overcrowded compared to what I've seen at K or SR over the years. However when they were the only game in the Valley, there were a couple of days where the amount of race teams on the hill made things a little cozy.

I agree with your assessment on the early season Lynx leg burn. I bought a cheap BW ticket for that purpose.  Ideally I'd like to see them both open on the 5th and start my season at BW that day and move over to Wildcat on the 12th.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 11, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i went on veterans day last year. they never scanned my max pass at the gondola. i took 4 runs on north ridge and then a transformer blew out and the lift conked out. eventually they got it up on a generator but only for the purpose of getting people to the walkway back to k1. at the bottom everyone got free anyday vouchers. i took it as a win. i also take it to mean that for those willing to hike, north ridge rides are free during the early season, because no one seems to be checking at the triple chair.


K has always been very lax with their scanning no matter the time of the season. Somedays I have to ask to be scanned. I'm sure quite a few people get over. It's not my money.


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## Los (Oct 12, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Wildcat is generally quiet early season. By Thanksgiving things can get overcrowded relative to conditions if things get icy.
> 
> The biggest difference between Wildcat vs Killington or Bretton Woods is the difficulty of the trail. Lynx is a much more challenging trail than they offer early season. You will feel the burn to be sure. I've been able to ski BW or Killington all day on my first day out, but three runs at Wildcat and my legs are not having fun.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip! 


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## Smellytele (Oct 12, 2016)

If I do early season at K, it is midweek until top to bottom. The north ridge line is too crazy on weekends until they get top to bottom.


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## Jully (Oct 12, 2016)

The passholder/express card only day isn't too bad either. Any regular Saturday and most Sundays are dreadful though.


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## dlague (Oct 12, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Nothing against Silverton at all... Just saying though that in past years, their marketing crew has been called out for taking pictures at certain angles and distances that makes 6-10" of early season snow look more like 3-4 feet of powder..  The Silverton Fall camera shot may be the Western equivalent of the "Jay ruler" in the East ;-)



That day was exactly that, they got 12-14 inches!


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## Jully (Oct 12, 2016)

dlague said:


> That day was exactly that, they got 12-14 inches!



Though the shot does look particularly epic and not a 12 inch storm, I am still more amazed at being able to ski snow like that in early October!


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## dlague (Oct 12, 2016)

Los said:


> Not killington though - we experienced the early season north ridge madhouse last year for the first and last time. My then 8 yr old had 3 collisions and the line was absurdly, ridiculously long.



Killington rat race early season is more about just getting out there!  The lines can be long for sure on opening and early season weekends.  Rime gets too crowded with real good skiers bombing down mixed in with those who avoided the Advanced skiing only signs.  Then there are the steps which with younger kids can be complaining point for them - some adults too.  If it is cold enough, the snow guns are all blasting away.  Depending on how much thawing an freezing happens, the trails get scrapped off fast.  Then there is the bottleneck of people on Great Northern at the intersection of Downdraft - not sure what it is about that area (luckily you go through that once more or less).  So, if you do not like all that then don't go there!

Oddly enough we enjoyed that rat race - the vibe is cool!  In any case, hopefully I did my part to reduce the lines!


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## dlague (Oct 12, 2016)

Jully said:


> Though the shot does look particularly epic and not a 12 inch storm, I am still more amazed at being able to ski snow like that in early October!



Perks of being ski patrol!


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## WWF-VT (Oct 12, 2016)

dlague said:


> Killington rat race early season is more about just getting out there!  The lines can be long for sure on opening and early season weekends.  Rime gets too crowded with real good skiers bombing down mixed in with those who avoided the Advanced skiing only signs.  Then there are the steps which with younger kids can be complaining point for them - some adults too.  If it is cold enough, the snow guns are all blasting away.  Depending on how much thawing an freezing happens, the trails get scrapped off fast.  Then there is the bottleneck of people on Great Northern at the intersection of Downdraft - not sure what it is about that area (luckily you go through that once more or less).  So, if you do not like all that then don't go there!



If  Killington used this paragraph in their Daily Conditions report it would definitely reduce early season lines....


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## Jully (Oct 12, 2016)

dlague said:


> Killington rat race early season is more about just getting out there!  The lines can be long for sure on opening and early season weekends.  Rime gets too crowded with real good skiers bombing down mixed in with those who avoided the Advanced skiing only signs.  Then there are the steps which with younger kids can be complaining point for them - some adults too.  If it is cold enough, the snow guns are all blasting away.  Depending on how much thawing an freezing happens, the trails get scrapped off fast.  Then there is the bottleneck of people on Great Northern at the intersection of Downdraft - not sure what it is about that area (luckily you go through that once more or less).  So, if you do not like all that then don't go there!
> 
> Oddly enough we enjoyed that rat race - the vibe is cool!  In any case, hopefully I did my part to reduce the lines!



Its great if you all know what you're doing and know what to expect! I'm not going to want to take any kids I have skiing until the early season crowds disperse in late Nov / December!


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## Smellytele (Oct 15, 2016)

Well next week looks like a warm-up (and chances of r@!n) so they must have decided to not blow last night. Can't see next weekend happening.


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## machski (Oct 15, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Well next week looks like a warm-up (and chances of r@!n) so they must have decided to not blow last night. Can't see next weekend happening.



Heard mount Washington was only around freezing at the summit last night.  Inversion season, the deep cold is not getting into our region yet.


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## slatham (Oct 17, 2016)

Models coming into agreement that next week will be cold enough to make snow across a broad area of the NE and it looks at this point to hold for a bit. Still in the long range but looking better.....


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## Tin (Oct 18, 2016)

Looking at the weather, they open to pass holders on Wednesday and general Thursday. My guess.


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## yeggous (Oct 18, 2016)

Tin said:


> Looking at the weather, they open to pass holders on Wednesday and general Thursday. My guess.



Pattern looks more favorable for Sunday River than Killington. Even Bretton Woods and Wildcat may get in on the chase.


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## Jully (Oct 18, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Pattern looks more favorable for Sunday River than Killington. Even Bretton Woods and Wildcat may get in on the chase.



I was wondering if BW would try and get in the chase and possibly win. This weekend at night it'll drop down to around 25 degrees at altitude at K and BW appears to be a bit colder.


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## Jully (Oct 18, 2016)

Tin said:


> Looking at the weather, they open to pass holders on Wednesday and general Thursday. My guess.



I think even earlier personally. I would think Monday for passholders is totally doable.


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## chuckstah (Oct 18, 2016)

Jully said:


> I think even earlier personally. I would think Monday for passholders is totally doable.



Monday for everyone would be nice.  I'm not sure an opening with short notice on a Monday would need restrictions.  Maybe make next Saturday the pass holder appreciation day, when it will be an intolerable zoo if open to everyon on N. Ridge only?


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## ss20 (Oct 18, 2016)

Agree with Sunday River being in a more favorable location.  They also don't have the Killington elevation advantage.  Not only that but Killington will fill in the waterbars on Rime and Reason so they have to blow less snow.  Idk what the terrain is like on Aurora without snow but filling in each waterbar would take a lot of time and energy on its 1100' vertical compared to 590' on the North Ridge.


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## dlague (Oct 18, 2016)

chuckstah said:


> Monday for everyone would be nice.  I'm not sure an opening with short notice on a Monday would need restrictions.  Maybe make next Saturday the pass holder appreciation day, when it will be an intolerable zoo if open to everyone on N. Ridge only?



They always open to everyone on North Ridge only!  yes the have a pass holder day or weekend but every time I have gone I have always been there for the public and with only North Ridge open with one exception.  The year of the Halloween storm, while only North Ridge was open, people were poaching runs to the bottom.


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## chuckstah (Oct 18, 2016)

dlague said:


> They always open to everyone on North Ridge only!  yes the have a pass holder day or weekend but every time I have gone I have always been there for the public and with only North Ridge open with one exception.  The year of the Halloween storm, while only North Ridge was open, people were poaching runs to the bottom.



I was there after the Halloween storm as well.  Great day.  Stayed over for a night even though it's an easy day trip as we had no power for a week and the house was freezing.


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## Jully (Oct 18, 2016)

dlague said:


> They always open to everyone on North Ridge only!  yes the have a pass holder day or weekend but every time I have gone I have always been there for the public and with only North Ridge open with one exception.  The year of the Halloween storm, while only North Ridge was open, people were poaching runs to the bottom.



Didn't last year they open North Ridge for passholders and express card holders only?


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## Smellytele (Oct 18, 2016)

Jully said:


> Didn't last year they open North Ridge for passholders and express card holders only?



yes on the first day


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## dlague (Oct 18, 2016)

Jully said:


> Didn't last year they open North Ridge for passholders and express card holders only?





Smellytele said:


> yes on the first day



Exactly, they certainly are not going to leave North Ridge only to Pass Holder and Express Card holders until other terrain is available.  They would miss out on the daily lift ticket frenzy.  That often is the only terrain available for a couple to few weeks.


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## machski (Oct 18, 2016)

At SR, there is a chance that they may open on Paradigm only using the Quantum Leap triple.  They extended Paradigm's snowmaking line down to the lift and they were moving a ton of dirt off second mile around the peak lodge.  Possibly regrading the runout of Peak Easy or a short cut behind the lodge to connect top of triple better to Paradigm?  Time will tell i guess, but if so, a lot less terrain blow quick and open.


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## chuckstah (Oct 18, 2016)

North Ridge was pass holders only for a lot of early season last year. Not just opening day. They said the base couldn't handle more traffic. Than they closed for a couple weeks.


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## Jully (Oct 18, 2016)

dlague said:


> Exactly, they certainly are not going to leave North Ridge only to Pass Holder and Express Card holders until other terrain is available.  They would miss out on the daily lift ticket frenzy.  That often is the only terrain available for a couple to few weeks.



Ahh, I was not quite sure what you meant. They certainly open to everyone on extremely limited terrain. Traditionally there has been one pass holders only day or, in the event of horrid weather like last year, multiple days when they first open due to a lack of base.


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## dlague (Oct 18, 2016)

Jully said:


> Ahh, I was not quite sure what you meant. They certainly open to everyone on extremely limited terrain. Traditionally there has been one pass holders only day or, in the event of horrid weather like last year, multiple days when they first open due to a lack of base.



We went last year when first open to the public and the only lift running was North Ridge an had to take the stairs back to the Gondola to get back down.  It was a mad house which was expected based on past years.


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## Newpylong (Oct 18, 2016)

Jully said:


> I think even earlier personally. I would think Monday for passholders is totally doable.



No that is not doable if models remain true. Even Tuesday will be a stretch though I could see an afternoon for passholders then.


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## Jully (Oct 18, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> No that is not doable if models remain true. Even Tuesday will be a stretch though I could see an afternoon for passholders then.



I have a window opening Saturday and continuing straight through Monday with a cold stretch of low 20s Saturday - Sunday night (like 19 - 23 degrees). Could be wrong but I thought they opened with a cold window roughly equivalent to that last year (shorter window but temperatures in the high teens at night).


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## ss20 (Oct 18, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> No that is not doable if models remain true. Even Tuesday will be a stretch though I could see an afternoon for passholders then.



Agreed.  Saturday and Sunday will be ridiculously windy with marginal temps.  Monday night and Tuesday night are going to be when the productivity happens.  

I say Wednesday they'll be open to passholders, then Thursday-Friday open to the public, and then go back to passholders only for the weekend if they make it that long.  Right now it looks like things will warm up with some rain starting Thursday.  

GFS long-term average for late Oct thru early November.


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## Newpylong (Oct 18, 2016)

Jully said:


> I have a window opening Saturday and continuing straight through Monday with a cold stretch of low 20s Saturday - Sunday night (like 19 - 23 degrees). Could be wrong but I thought they opened with a cold window roughly equivalent to that last year (shorter window but temperatures in the high teens at night).



Marginal runs Sun and Monday AM at elevation with first good window Monday night. Monday is realistically not going to happen.


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## dlague (Oct 18, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Agreed.  Saturday and Sunday will be ridiculously windy with marginal temps.  Monday night and Tuesday night are going to be when the productivity happens.
> 
> I say Wednesday they'll be open to passholders, then Thursday-Friday open to the public, and then go back to passholders only for the weekend if they make it that long.  Right now it looks like things will warm up with some rain starting Thursday.
> 
> GFS long-term average for late Oct thru early November.



I have never seen them flip flop between pass holder days then to public then back to pass holders - I could be wrong.  We have been skiing opening weekend since the stairs were in (2010)  and I do not recall a flip flop unless there was a total warm up.

The Peak Walk


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## Smellytele (Oct 19, 2016)

*This is at 3400'
Saturday*

Rain  showers likely before 11am, then a chance of rain and snow showers  between 11am and 2pm, then a chance of snow showers after 2pm.  Cloudy,  with a high near 40. Very windy, with a northwest wind 34 to 44 mph,  with gusts as high as 55 mph.  Chance of precipitation is 60%.

*Saturday Night*
A  40 percent chance of snow showers.  Mostly cloudy, with a low around  26. Windy, with a west wind around 39 mph, with gusts as high as 49 mph.  

*Sunday*
A  chance of snow showers before 1pm, then a chance of rain and snow  showers between 1pm and 3pm, then a chance of rain showers after 3pm.   Partly sunny, with a high near 38. Very windy, with a west wind 34 to 41  mph, with gusts as high as 50 mph.  Chance of precipitation is 30%.

*Sunday Night*
A  chance of snow showers between 7pm and 8pm.  Partly cloudy, with a low  around 28. Very windy, with a northwest wind 45 to 55 mph decreasing to  34 to 44 mph after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 70 mph.  Chance  of precipitation is 30%.

*Monday*
A  chance of rain and snow showers.  Partly sunny, with a high near 37.  West wind 13 to 18 mph becoming light and variable.  Chance of  precipitation is 30%.

*Monday Night*
A  chance of rain and snow showers.  Mostly cloudy, with a low around 24.  Windy, with a north wind 24 to 30 mph.  Chance of precipitation is 30%.


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## yeggous (Oct 19, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> *This is at 3400'
> Saturday*
> 
> Rain  showers likely before 11am, then a chance of rain and snow showers  between 11am and 2pm, then a chance of snow showers after 2pm.  Cloudy,  with a high near 40. Very windy, with a northwest wind 34 to 44 mph,  with gusts as high as 55 mph.  Chance of precipitation is 60%.
> ...



No real surprise that as we get closer the models are starting to better resolve a series of shortwaves that ride along the boundary. The net result is more borderline temperatures and shorter windows. I remain skeptical that serious production will occur.


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## drjeff (Oct 19, 2016)

yeggous said:


> No real surprise that as we get closer the models are starting to better resolve a series of shortwaves that ride along the boundary. The net result is more borderline temperatures and shorter windows. I remain skeptical that serious production will occur.



Bingo!

The literally constant chance of precip in that forecast means that the humidity levels are likely to be high across that time frame which won't help the wetbulb in those already marginal temps

Standard fall transitional weather pattern where temps tend to moderate as we get closer and humidity levels tend to fact in in an often detrimental way.

Hopefully the weather events this weekend will start the process of bringing in a true pattern change and make the Northern Component of the Jet stream with it's cooler, and often dryer air a more dominant player than it is now!


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## slatham (Oct 19, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Bingo!
> 
> The literally constant chance of precip in that forecast means that the humidity levels are likely to be high across that time frame which won't help the wetbulb in those already marginal temps
> 
> ...



Its the days beyond the above forecast period that shows deeper and prolonged cold with dryer conditions. Of course that is beyond the extended and thus subject to change, but there has at least been consistency in the EURO and GFS seems to be getting onboard too......


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## Los (Oct 19, 2016)

My trusted sources (accuweather, ahem) predict low temps well above freezing in northern NH for most of November. 

Regardless of its accuracy, it's not comforting.  


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## mriceyman (Oct 19, 2016)

Im looking at a warm oct-nov and hopeful of a pattern change early december 


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## Tin (Oct 19, 2016)

Since K cannot dust and run on Superstar and the depths have to be several feet minimum to install safety netting, any idea how much snowmaking they will have to do? I'm thinking weeks of a constant assault on SS.


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## Jully (Oct 19, 2016)

Tin said:


> Since K cannot dust and run on Superstar and the depths have to be several feet minimum to install safety netting, any idea how much snowmaking they will have to do? I'm thinking weeks of a constant assault on SS.



I've heard 5 feet or so of depth I think. They have the exact number of hours approximated though i forget the exact number. Might be 96?


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## ss20 (Oct 19, 2016)

Jully said:


> I've heard 5 feet or so of depth I think. They have the exact number of hours approximated though i forget the exact number. Might be 96?



96 hours snowmaking is what was said by Killington management on K-Zone.


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## chuckstah (Oct 19, 2016)

They will be hammering SS when the temps drop Saturday. I think I heard 144 non consecutive hours of snow making will be requured for the race. I hope they let the public ski SS for a few days during snowmaking once a base is down.


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## Tin (Oct 19, 2016)

chuckstah said:


> They will be hammering SS when the temps drop Saturday. I think I heard 144 non consecutive hours of snow making will be requured for the race. I hope they let the public ski SS for a few days during snowmaking once a base is down.



That sounds more like it. 4 days to put down 4'+ but factor in an unfrozen ground, pushing, draining, etc, a lot more.


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## chuckstah (Oct 19, 2016)

Tin said:


> That sounds more like it. 4 days to put down 4'+ but factor in an unfrozen ground, pushing, draining, etc, a lot more.



Found the link confirming 144 hours

http://www.skiracing.com/premium/killington-prepares-to-kill-it-on-the-world-cup-circuit


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## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2016)

Has to be ready well before the race too for training no?  Given what happened last year, I would assume they turn the guns on at any opportunity between now and then.  Just start blowing whales and hope you don't lose too much


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## steamboat1 (Oct 19, 2016)

ss20 said:


> 96 hours snowmaking is what was said by Killington management on K-Zone.


Bingo


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## chuckstah (Oct 20, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Bingo



Link?


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## WWF-VT (Oct 20, 2016)

chuckstah said:


> Link?


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## drjeff (Oct 20, 2016)

chuckstah said:


> They will be hammering SS when the temps drop Saturday. I think I heard 144 non consecutive hours of snow making will be requured for the race. I hope they let the public ski SS for a few days during snowmaking once a base is down.



Highly doubt the public gets to ski Superstar until a few days after the worldcup is over. You can bet that if the opportunity presents that they'll put down way more than 96hrs of snowmaking with hoses probably dragged out a bit, let alone the other set up items from TV cameras and cables to grandstands, to the actual snow prep and water injection - 

My hunch is with the races ending on Nov 27th, it will be Nov 29 or 30 before the public rope drop on SS happens


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## andrec10 (Oct 20, 2016)

And then, SS will be solid Ice! Sharpen your edges boys and girls!


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## mriceyman (Oct 20, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> And then, SS will be solid Ice! Sharpen your edges boys and girls!



It will def be fast!


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## dlague (Oct 20, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Highly doubt the public gets to ski Superstar until a few days after the worldcup is over. You can bet that if the opportunity presents that they'll put down way more than 96hrs of snowmaking with hoses probably dragged out a bit, let alone the other set up items from TV cameras and cables to grandstands, to the actual snow prep and water injection -
> 
> My hunch is with the races ending on Nov 27th, it will be Nov 29 or 30 before the public rope drop on SS happens



Absolutely more than 96 hours - this is a big deal and they do not want to f it up!



andrec10 said:


> And then, SS will be solid Ice! Sharpen your edges boys and girls!



Damn straight it will be - they are going blow down boilerplate the way they like it.  In fact, I am sure there will be race staff that will be making sure it is hard.


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## Jully (Oct 20, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> And then, SS will be solid Ice! Sharpen your edges boys and girls!



Sounds great! It'll be a lot harder to make the trail skied off in all the early season crowds!


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## danimals (Oct 22, 2016)

dlague said:


> They always open to everyone on North Ridge only!  yes the have a pass holder day or weekend but every time I have gone I have always been there for the public and with only North Ridge open with one exception.  The year of the Halloween storm, while only North Ridge was open, people were poaching runs to the bottom.



Still one of my best days on snow ever.


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## dlague (Oct 22, 2016)

danimals said:


> Still one of my best days on snow ever.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes that was prety awesome - ski patrol just looked the other way knowing that people were going t poach.  It was one of my more memorable days too!


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## ALLSKIING (Oct 23, 2016)

5.5 inches last night and the guns are on. Announcing a opening date later today!


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## joshua segal (Oct 23, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> 5.5 inches last night and the guns are on. Announcing a opening date later today!


And the forecast looks good for snowmaking most of this week!


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## steamboat1 (Oct 23, 2016)

If I had to guess it'll be a soft opening sometime Mon.


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## machski (Oct 23, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> If I had to guess it'll be a soft opening sometime Mon.



I looked at the temp profiles on Mount Washington, looks favorable for K today as I suspect the cold dove into VT better given the system that pulled through.  With a half foot head start (IE, evenbif it is a bit wet and/or slushy, better than blowing on bare warmish ground), they probably make good progress today.  Wouldn't doubt they announce the passholder open tomorrow later today.  Tuesday seems likely for public.


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## machski (Oct 23, 2016)

7pm operational announcement.  Hope all K pass and xpress cardholder holders are on their way up tonight.


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## benski (Oct 23, 2016)

machski said:


> 7pm operational announcement.  Hope all K pass and xpress cardholder holders are on their way up tonight.



They got 5.5 inches. I have no doubt they will be open. I am more curious to see if great norther opens with just natural. Sugarbush would consider it enough.


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## Jully (Oct 23, 2016)

Starts Tuesday! http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/conditions/dor


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## machski (Oct 23, 2016)

I'm shocked but then again, no big rush for K as SR really isn't a threat to steal it this year.  Should make for really good conditions for both opening days.


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## yeggous (Oct 23, 2016)

machski said:


> I'm shocked but then again, no big rush for K as SR really isn't a threat to steal it this year.  Should make for really good conditions for both opening days.



I'm not surprised. Opening on one night of snowmaking is really borderline given the ground temperatures.


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## benski (Oct 23, 2016)

yeggous said:


> I'm not surprised. Opening on one night of snowmaking is really borderline given the ground temperatures.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



They started making snow before 1 today. I What will be open this weekend. I guess superstar top to bottom, rime and reason.


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## Puck it (Oct 23, 2016)

benski said:


> They started making snow before 1 today. I What will be open this weekend. I guess superstar top to bottom, rime and reason.


Superstar really!  No public wil see that until December


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## machski (Oct 23, 2016)

benski said:


> They started making snow before 1 today. I What will be open this weekend. I guess superstar top to bottom, rime and reason.



No Superstar for sure.  Rime and Reason and if the temps drop you might get upper East fall as well.


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## yeggous (Oct 23, 2016)

machski said:


> No Superstar for sure.  Rime and Reason and if the temps drop you might get upper East fall as well.



How busy would it be on Thursday? There is a small chance I could go, even though I swore never to return there when the stairs are required.

I'm holding out hope that someone else gets open for Thursday. Bretton Woods, Wildcat, and Sunday River are all outside shots this year. Sunday River has something to prove, but without the mid-station they are at an elevation disadvantage compared to the others.


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## joshua segal (Oct 23, 2016)

In an email to pass holders Killiington announced:
"After more than five inches of natural snow and several days of favorable snowmaking weather, Killington Resort plans to open for winter operations at 9:00 a.m. on Tuesday, October 25, 2016. Day one is reserved exclusively for Season Pass and Express Card holders like you; no day tickets will be sold and no other ticket products will be valid. The ticket price for Express Card holders will be $25.

We expect to ski and snowboard on our Rime and Reason trails, with service from the North Ridge Triple chair. The K-Parks crew plans to have several features set up in the Reason Park as well. Access from K-1 Base Area will be via the K-1 Express Gondola, followed by a trip down the Peak Walkway. Remember to leave a little gas in the tank for day’s end—you’ll have to walk back up the Peak Walkway to download back to K-1 Base."

So it really is on.  Some of my friends sent me photos from their day earning turns at MRG where they had a foot at the summit and 6" at the base.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 23, 2016)

This is a nice touch...:beer:


_"They say there's no such thing as a free lunch, but that's not true for Killington Season Pass holders. Show your pass on opening day for lunch on us at the K-1 Cafeteria, the North Ridge Dog Sled, or the Peak Lodge. Complimentary coffee and hot chocolate will also be available throughout the day at the K-1 Cafeteria and Peak Lodge.  Food options vary by location, please see on-site staff for menu options."


_Gotta love The Beast.


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## benski (Oct 23, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> So it really is on.  Some of my friends sent me photos from their day earning turns at MRG where they had a foot at the summit and 6" at the base.



Sugarbush is only chowing 6 inches on there webcam. 
http://www.sugarbush.com/mountain/webcams/


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## dlague (Oct 23, 2016)

That is awesome for Killington!


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## steamboat1 (Oct 23, 2016)

If lunch is anything like pass holder appreciation day in the spring they feed you well. If I remember right they gave you a choice of either a regular burger, bison burger, vegi burger or chicken filet. Lettuce, tomato, pickle, regular salad or pasta salad plus a free beverage. Nice gesture on their part.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 23, 2016)

lol


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## mriceyman (Oct 23, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> lol



Marketing game on point


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## bigbog (Oct 23, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> ..............Some of my friends sent me photos from their day earning turns at MRG where they had a foot at the summit and 6" at the base.



_That_ is nice stuff for October...


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## yeggous (Oct 23, 2016)

None of you want to hear this, but Lucy is yanking the football away again tonight. Temperatures and humidity are creeping up. There a very subtle warm front lifting across the area. Snowmaking will not be very productive tonight if it even runs at all.


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 24, 2016)

as of 6:45 AM guns still appear to be running at full speed in North Ridge.  Obviously its hard to see production, but it appears that they ran through the night.


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## Smellytele (Oct 24, 2016)

Still looks like they are a blowin'


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## dlague (Oct 24, 2016)

They must be mixing a lot of air in.  Good for them!  Killington has always been good about getting the stoke factor right up there.


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## machski (Oct 24, 2016)

yeggous said:


> None of you want to hear this, but Lucy is yanking the football away again tonight. Temperatures and humidity are creeping up. There a very subtle warm front lifting across the area. Snowmaking will not be very productive tonight if it even runs at all.



For today, yes a bit.  But tomorrow it dries and drops in temps.  Tuesday night will be the coldest of the season to date.  And I'm basing this on the Mount Washington observatory's high summits forecast.


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## Smellytele (Oct 24, 2016)

Think I am going on Wednesday. I have never done lift service in Oct. I have done a few earn your turns days in the past.


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## mriceyman (Oct 24, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Think I am going on Wednesday. I have never done lift service in Oct. I have done a few earn your turns days in the past.



Wednesday will probably be far better than tuesday 


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## slatham (Oct 24, 2016)

NWS Forecast for Killington Peak is below. Given the guns are running I'd presume the temp did not get up to 34 at 6am today. In any event it appears to get colder from here and tonight will be a decent night at 20 degrees, though hard to tell where the wet bulb ends up. And its supposed to get colder beyond Tuesday. I think they have a pretty good week to get even more open......

THE FORECAST FOR KILLINGTON PEAK, VERMONT AT 4,235:
LAST UPDATED AT 323 AM EDT MON OCT 24 2016

.TODAY...SUMMITS IN AND OUT OF CLOUDS. HIGH AROUND 33. WEST WINDS
25 TO 35 MPH. 
.TONIGHT...SUMMITS OBSCURED IN CLOUDS. LOW AROUND 20. NORTHWEST
WINDS 30 TO 40 MPH. WIND CHILL VALUES AS LOW AS 1 BELOW. 
.TUESDAY...SUMMITS OBSCURED IN CLOUDS. HIGH AROUND 28. NORTHWEST
WINDS 30 TO 45 MPH...DECREASING TO 25 TO 30 MPH IN THE AFTERNOON.
WIND CHILL VALUES AS LOW AS 1 BELOW. 

DETAILED FORECAST DATA:

DATE             MON 10/24/16      TUE 10/25/16
TIME (EDT)       06 09 12 15 18 21 00 03 06 09 12 15 18
TEMP (F)         34 33 33 33 28 24 20 20 20 20 21 23 24
WIND DIR          W  W  W  W  W NW NW NW NW NW NW NW NW
WIND SPD (MPH)   26 32 27 25 31 37 39 41 41 37 26 27 32
SKY COVER (%)    IO IO IO IO IO OB OB OB OB OB OB OB OB
WIND CHL (F)     21 19 19 20 12  5 -1 -1 -1  0  4  6  6
PROP PRECIP (%)  11  5  6 11 13 12  6  7  9 11 16 18 12
SNOW AMT (IN)     0     0     0     0     0     T     T


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## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> NWS Forecast for Killington Peak is below. Given the guns are running I'd presume the temp did not get up to 34 at 6am today. In any event it appears to get colder from here and tonight will be a decent night at 20 degrees, though hard to tell where the wet bulb ends up. And its supposed to get colder beyond Tuesday. I think they have a pretty good week to get even more open......
> 
> THE FORECAST FOR KILLINGTON PEAK, VERMONT AT 4,235:
> LAST UPDATED AT 323 AM EDT MON OCT 24 2016
> ...



It could have gotten at least that warm, especially at the base of the lift. They may have decided just to blow water for a bit assuming they resulting slush pile will freeze back up. They'll call it "base snow".


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2016)

How long ya think it'll be for top to bottom skiing? Might go up in a week or so especially if some progress is being made.


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## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> How long ya think it'll be for top to bottom skiing? Might go up in a week or so especially if some progress is being made.



At K-Mart? A long time. They are always slow to the bottom, and the weather is not looking favorable next week. BW, the Cat, or Sunday River will be will the first top to bottom. It's not clear that they'll do it this week though. If they do it will be thin and at risk next week.


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2016)

Okay. So what's the expansion plan most likely to be prior to Great Northern > Mousetrap?

What trails/lifts are likely to open up after Rime and Reason?


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## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Okay. So what's the expansion plan most likely to be prior to Great Northern > Mousetrap?
> 
> What trails/lifts are likely to open up after Rime and Reason?



I'll leave that to others more familiar with K to answer. My point is they are never in a hurry to get to the bottom. They usually stay up top for a week or two longer than the other early season players.


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## Tin (Oct 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> How long ya think it'll be for top to bottom skiing? Might go up in a week or so especially if some progress is being made.



Bretton Woods, Okemo, Sugarbush, Sunday River, Wildcat (one other odd ball, maybe Stratton or Loon?) were all top to bottom before K last year. But three years ago K had 50 trails including the Canyon and SS area open by November 15th and other places were struggling. Who knows...


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## dlague (Oct 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Okay. So what's the expansion plan most likely to be prior to Great Northern > Mousetrap?
> 
> What trails/lifts are likely to open up after Rime and Reason?



You need Great Norther to get to Mouse Trap.

They typically will work towards getting everything around North Ridge open and use Great Northern to open Top to Bottom down to Bunny Buster with Mouse Trap not far behind.  At that point Bunny Buster is nuts.  After that, it becomes an all out assault on SS and Snowdon.  However, SS will be getting some love right off the bat due to FIS.


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## andrec10 (Oct 24, 2016)

dlague said:


> You need Great Norther to get to Mouse Trap.
> 
> They typically will work towards getting everything around North Ridge open and use Great Northern to open Top to Bottom down to Bunny Buster with Mouse Trap not far behind.  At that point Bunny Buster is nuts.  After that, it becomes an all out assault on SS and Snowdon.  However, SS will be getting some love right off the bat due to FIS.



The top of SS is getting love right now. They need to build that base up!


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## Jully (Oct 24, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Think I am going on Wednesday. I have never done lift service in Oct. I have done a few earn your turns days in the past.



Jealous. I'm stuck in Michigan until Sunday. Going on Monday. At least I'll still be able to claim October lift served! I'm hoping Wildcat will be open by monday, but it not K will be great as well I'm sure. 

For midweek early season I'm assuming K is superior to BW. I've never done Bretton Woods early before, but a 1000 very green trail I think is inferior to two or three 600 very trails at K. What do others think?


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## Newpylong (Oct 24, 2016)

yeggous said:


> It could have gotten at least that warm, especially at the base of the lift. They may have decided just to blow water for a bit assuming they resulting slush pile will freeze back up. They'll call it "base snow".



Part of snowmaking is continually walking the line and checking the guns (placement and for icing/bearding) and snow quality. If conditions did not allow for any nucleation (and I mean any, like even at a 1/4 turn of the water hydrant) they would just shut the guns down to concentrate available air higher up where it was still possible to make snow. Blowing water even if it later freezes only makes a mess, it doesn't help base building. Best to shutdown and wait for better conditions, which they will get.


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## Smellytele (Oct 24, 2016)

Jully said:


> Jealous. I'm stuck in Michigan until Sunday. Going on Monday. At least I'll still be able to claim October lift served! I'm hoping Wildcat will be open by monday, but it not K will be great as well I'm sure.
> 
> For midweek early season I'm assuming K is superior to BW. I've never done Bretton Woods early before, but a 1000 very green trail I think is inferior to two or three 600 very trails at K. What do others think?



Well I tend to agree but the lines are usually worse at K and K involves stairs down and then up. They aren't bad but they are there. Early season is early season so you need to weigh the options and decided what you are willing to put up with. 1st day last year I did Bretton woods and I was glad it was an easy green trail.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2016)

Jully said:


> Jealous. I'm stuck in Michigan until Sunday. Going on Monday. At least I'll still be able to claim October lift served! I'm hoping Wildcat will be open by monday, but it not K will be great as well I'm sure.
> 
> For midweek early season I'm assuming K is superior to BW. I've never done Bretton Woods early before, but a 1000 very green trail I think is inferior to two or three 600 very trails at K. What do others think?



Both Wildcat and Bretton Woods don't open mid-week until a few weeks into the season.


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## Jully (Oct 24, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Well I tend to agree but the lines are usually worse at K and K involves stairs down and then up. They aren't bad but they are there. Early season is early season so you need to weigh the options and decided what you are willing to put up with. 1st day last year I did Bretton woods and I was glad it was an easy green trail.



Definitely will have to weigh my options. The stairs are definitely a downside to K, though I've done them a few times and they haven't bothered me that much. After Rime and Reason do they immediately move to Great Northern and ski out from the gondola? I can't remember if they do anything else at North Ridge before.



deadheadskier said:


> Both Wildcat and Bretton Woods don't open mid-week until a few weeks into the season.



Dang it... completely forgot about that. It will be Halloween though! Not that that will count for anything...


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## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> 1st day last year I did Bretton woods and I was glad it was an easy green trail.



Yeah, I like the slope at Bretton Woods as a first day out option.  I've had several days at BW early season in recent years and it's great way to wake the legs back up.  Lynx at Wildcat kicks my ass early season.


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## dlague (Oct 24, 2016)

Jully said:


> Definitely will have to weigh my options. The stairs are definitely a downside to K, though I've done them a few times and they haven't bothered me that much. After Rime and Reason do they immediately move to Great Northern and ski out from the gondola? I can't remember if they do anything else at North Ridge before.



We have been to opening weekend 4 of the last 6 years and Great Northern right from the Gondola was available all but one time.  that one time we had to walk the steps down, however, the following week Great Northern was open from the Gondola but still had to do the steps back up.  They will get East Fall open and a few other trails to the right of Reason (can't remember the names).  Then they work their way down with Great Northern as mentioned earlier.


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## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> Yeah, I like the slope at Bretton Woods as a first day out option.  I've had several days at BW early season in recent years and it's great way to wake the legs back up.  Lynx at Wildcat kicks my ass early season.



Agree on all counts


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## 180 (Oct 24, 2016)

enough snow to ski down


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## machski (Oct 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> NWS Forecast for Killington Peak is below. Given the guns are running I'd presume the temp did not get up to 34 at 6am today. In any event it appears to get colder from here and tonight will be a decent night at 20 degrees, though hard to tell where the wet bulb ends up. And its supposed to get colder beyond Tuesday. I think they have a pretty good week to get even more open......
> 
> THE FORECAST FOR KILLINGTON PEAK, VERMONT AT 4,235:
> LAST UPDATED AT 323 AM EDT MON OCT 24 2016
> ...



I'm just going to say this, NWS or not.  Where are their data points to base off of?  I do not believe the NWS has a high elevation weather station in the middle of VT.  Without data to put into computer models, temp forecasts are a crap shoot.  That is why I lean towards the mount Washington observatory high peaks forecast and adjust a bit for K's slightly reduced elevation and Latitude.

Just saying...


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## joshua segal (Oct 24, 2016)

Update: Opening postponed to Tuesday, PM. If anyone is planning to go, double check with them first.


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## benski (Oct 24, 2016)

machski said:


> I'm just going to say this, NWS or not.  Where are their data points to base off of?  I do not believe the NWS has a high elevation weather station in the middle of VT.  Without data to put into computer models, temp forecasts are a crap shoot.  That is why I lean towards the mount Washington observatory high peaks forecast and adjust a bit for K's slightly reduced elevation and Latitude.
> 
> Just saying...



Couldn't NWS use Mount Washington and a network of thermometers with minimal internet connection.


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## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Update: Opening postponed to Tuesday, PM. If anyone is planning to go, double check with them first.



I tried to warn everyone.


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## ss20 (Oct 24, 2016)

Jully said:


> I can't remember if they do anything else at North Ridge before.



Between the last natural snow round, and the precipitation this Thursday-Friday looking more and more like a net positive, I'd say Powerline could be in play soon after opening day, especially if it got any blow-over.  They've pointed guns in its direction to get it open early season.


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## slatham (Oct 24, 2016)

machski said:


> I'm just going to say this, NWS or not.  Where are their data points to base off of?  I do not believe the NWS has a high elevation weather station in the middle of VT.  Without data to put into computer models, temp forecasts are a crap shoot.  That is why I lean towards the mount Washington observatory high peaks forecast and adjust a bit for K's slightly reduced elevation and Latitude.
> 
> Just saying...




Well they do have Mt Mansfield as an official NWS reporting station. There are also a number of other stations that you can access via WeatherUnderground, including Stratton Summit and another at 2500'. I am sure there are others throughout VT at elevation, and I bet NWS uses them. But of course the age old way to determine atmospheric conditions at various elevations - key to weather forecasting everywhere - are the weather balloons that are launched from thousands of locations on a regular basis. 

But of course they get things wrong, and in this case literally a degree or two can make all the difference. Yeggous' skepticism was warranted. Where's he getting his data from?


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## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> Well they do have Mt Mansfield as an official NWS reporting station. There are also a number of other stations that you can access via WeatherUnderground, including Stratton Summit and another at 2500'. I am sure there are others throughout VT at elevation, and I bet NWS uses them. But of course the age old way to determine atmospheric conditions at various elevations - key to weather forecasting everywhere - are the weather balloons that are launched from thousands of locations on a regular basis.
> 
> But of course they get things wrong, and in this case literally a degree or two can make all the difference. Yeggous' skepticism was warranted. Where's he getting his data from?



Yeggous has a degree in meteorology. I worked as a research scientist developing weather models for five years before my recent career change. I try to stay quiet in most weather discussions. OMG one run of the GFS hs snowmaggedon in ten days!

Mountain top historical observations irrelevant to the veracity of weather model forecasts. The forecasts are mostly driven by balloon observations.

Don't spend too much time concerned with the Mt Washington summits forecast. They are largely generated by interns. The NWS digital forecast grids are the single best source for forecasts. Go to weather.gov. You can enter a very specific location and click on the map to move around. Pay attention to the altitude of the grid point as it influences the temperature.


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## Los (Oct 24, 2016)

yeggous said:


> I try to stay quiet in most weather discussions.



How come? Please reconsider!


----------



## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

Los said:


> How come? Please reconsider!



I figure that talking weather with people here would just end in ignorance and frustration. Several people here think that they are experts. A discussion that starts with somebody pointing out a big storm in one model run will end with that person declaring that global climate change is a Chinese conspiracy.


----------



## ss20 (Oct 24, 2016)

Los said:


> How come? Please reconsider!



Because up until last year or so ago the weather forum had too many people who knew too little who would debate people who actually knew about weather until it was a pointless pissing match.  That scared most of the qualified people away and has left the forum a place of speculation and model regurgitation.  So by that point there were threads upon threads of storms that were one-run wonders...which further pissed off people...so the mods stepped in and took control...and there were arguments about what the "rules" for the weather forum should look like and all that.

That and the climate change arguments.

Essentially, go back a few years in the weather forum and you'll see why it would be a terrible idea for this forum to have a politics section.  BTW, I'm not at all qualified to talk about weather but I do enjoy the speculation and have learned a lot over the past few years.


----------



## machski (Oct 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> Well they do have Mt Mansfield as an official NWS reporting station. There are also a number of other stations that you can access via WeatherUnderground, including Stratton Summit and another at 2500'. I am sure there are others throughout VT at elevation, and I bet NWS uses them. But of course the age old way to determine atmospheric conditions at various elevations - key to weather forecasting everywhere - are the weather balloons that are launched from thousands of locations on a regular basis.
> 
> But of course they get things wrong, and in this case literally a degree or two can make all the difference. Yeggous' skepticism was warranted. Where's he getting his data from?



I figured Mansfield had a station, didn't know about Stratton.  Mount Washington observatory is not just the forecasts for me, all the data points they have.  The auto road elevation stations data points are great, especially to see if inversions are at play.  It's a great snapshot and better than wx balloons in my opinion (any station at elevation is) when you are examining weather at altitude in proximity to terrain.
Good call today.  Very surprised the guns stayed on all day.  SR failed to start making til tonight as well, so the weakened cold persisted well north as well.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2016)

Looks like they've got a little window. Then it gets moist. Maybe more snow than rain? I like this site though for the base and top forecasts.

http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Killington-Peak/forecasts/1291


----------



## Los (Oct 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Because up until last year or so ago the weather forum had too many people who knew too little who would debate people who actually knew about weather until it was a pointless pissing match.  That scared most of the qualified people away and has left the forum a place of speculation and model regurgitation.  So by that point there were threads upon threads of storms that were one-run wonders...which further pissed off people...so the mods stepped in and took control...and there were arguments about what the "rules" for the weather forum should look like and all that.
> 
> That and the climate change arguments.
> 
> Essentially, go back a few years in the weather forum and you'll see why it would be a terrible idea for this forum to have a politics section.  BTW, I'm not at all qualified to talk about weather but I do enjoy the speculation and have learned a lot over the past few years.



Thanks for the background info. I'll pledge to no longer post in the weather forum. That's at least one less non-qualified person complaining and speculating about the weather...


----------



## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

machski said:


> I figured Mansfield had a station, didn't know about Stratton.  Mount Washington observatory is not just the forecasts for me, all the data points they have.  The auto road elevation stations data points are great, especially to see if inversions are at play.  It's a great snapshot and better than wx balloons in my opinion (any station at elevation is) when you are examining weather at altitude in proximity to terrain.
> Good call today.  Very surprised the guns stayed on all day.  SR failed to start making til tonight as well, so the weakened cold persisted well north as well.



The Mt Washington mesonet is an excellent resource. It has stations at the summits of Attitash, Bretton Woods, Cannon, and Cranmore. As a secret tip, Davis Instruments has a website and app that will get you observations from weather stations made by them. In the MWV that gets you Cranmore base, Cranmore mid-mountain, Cranmore summit, Bear Peak summit, Wildcat base, and Wildcat mid-mountain pumphouse. Elsewhere I know there are stations at the Mt Snow base and summit, Smugglers summit, Sugarbush base, and Crotched summit.


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2016)

What do you think about the link I posted yeggous. Legit or quit?


----------



## benski (Oct 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Because up until last year or so ago the weather forum had too many people who knew too little who would debate people who actually knew about weather until it was a pointless pissing match.


The thing is most people on this forum are anonymous and we have little information about there backgrounds. How many people would actually know the Yeggous understands weather any better than Los unless they read Yeggous's post from earlier.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 24, 2016)

you can figure out pretty quick who has meteorology experience and who's just shitposting snow stoke screenshots... ime


----------



## yeggous (Oct 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> What do you think about the link I posted yeggous. Legit or quit?



If it presents the information in a way that is easy to digest, then by all means use it. It is probably just GFS forecasts that are repackaged and presented with their visualizations at a preprocessed list of locations. That sort of post-processing to match weather information to specific locals is a common value-add. I created a product that did the same thing with census information to estimate damage to homes, then we'd roll up those estimates to the county, zip code, nearest home improvement store etc. It allowed building materials suppliers to estimate their demand days in advance.

I've toyed with the idea of starting my own website or app in my free time. But then I realize it would be a lot of work with little monetary payback. I've learned the hard way not to do business in anything you want to enjoy or experience. You never want work to be calling when you want to be playing.


----------



## Jully (Oct 24, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Because up until last year or so ago the weather forum had too many people who knew too little who would debate people who actually knew about weather until it was a pointless pissing match.  That scared most of the qualified people away and has left the forum a place of speculation and model regurgitation.  So by that point there were threads upon threads of storms that were one-run wonders...which further pissed off people...so the mods stepped in and took control...and there were arguments about what the "rules" for the weather forum should look like and all that.
> 
> That and the climate change arguments.
> 
> Essentially, go back a few years in the weather forum and you'll see why it would be a terrible idea for this forum to have a politics section.  BTW, I'm not at all qualified to talk about weather but I do enjoy the speculation and have learned a lot over the past few years.



+1 I know little about meteorology, but have learned some interesting things from those on this forum who do. I've enjoyed the weather conversations that have stayed civil and intelligent. Still don't pretend to know anything though. 

I think last winter saw all issues magnify as well due to stress and frustration. I hope this winter can see some positive winter discussion.


----------



## benski (Oct 24, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> you can figure out pretty quick who has meteorology experience and who's just shitposting snow stoke screenshots... ime



There is also a third category of people who learned a fair amount of meteorology from reading meteorologists and google searches. Unless you are getting realy technical, using sources that are not free on the internet or referencing it regularly it would be hard to tell the difrence between someone in the third category and a pro.


----------



## steamboat1 (Oct 24, 2016)

I say just stick with tuna's forecasts. If he says it's going to dump stay home. I've found more inaccuracy in his forecasts than any other projections posted on here.

yeggous is another.

My projection is there will be lift serviced skiing at K tomorrow with free lunch for passholders.


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## JimG. (Oct 24, 2016)

Hope K can open.


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## mriceyman (Oct 25, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I say just stick with tuna's forecasts. If he says it's going to dump stay home. I've found more inaccuracy in his forecasts than any other projections posted on here.
> 
> yeggous is another.
> 
> My projection is there will be lift serviced skiing at K tomorrow with free lunch for passholders.



Pretty bold projection


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----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 25, 2016)

Cold enough to have the fan guns at the base of superstar on.  Guns are also still on in North Ridge.  My guess is they open at lunch.  who knows... 

Its 10/25, the only other place open in the country is A-Basin.  Even opening tomorrow, they are still way ahead of the game.


----------



## machski (Oct 25, 2016)

K's condition report says they expect to be loading the K1 shortly after noon today.  Temps dropped overnight according to the report.


----------



## slatham (Oct 25, 2016)

yeggous said:


> The Mt Washington mesonet is an excellent resource. It has stations at the summits of Attitash, Bretton Woods, Cannon, and Cranmore. As a secret tip, Davis Instruments has a website and app that will get you observations from weather stations made by them. In the MWV that gets you Cranmore base, Cranmore mid-mountain, Cranmore summit, Bear Peak summit, Wildcat base, and Wildcat mid-mountain pumphouse. Elsewhere I know there are stations at the Mt Snow base and summit, Smugglers summit, Sugarbush base, and Crotched summit.



Thanks for the pointers, especially Davis with the Mt Snow base and summit.

Any caveats with using Weather Underground stations? To layman they seem solid, and there are a lot of them.


----------



## Jully (Oct 25, 2016)

SR has northern lights lit up top to bottom as of this morning too. I wonder if they will be able to/want to rush to open before this weekend and warm up or wait until after it passes and miss the chance at October turns.


----------



## 180 (Oct 25, 2016)

This wunderground station is the closest to the top of K,  its the top of Okemo
https://www.wunderground.com/us/vt/belmont/zmw:05730.1.99999


----------



## yeggous (Oct 25, 2016)

slatham said:


> Thanks for the pointers, especially Davis with the Mt Snow base and summit.
> 
> Any caveats with using Weather Underground stations? To layman they seem solid, and there are a lot of them.



Those Weather Underground stations are just backyard weather stations installed by enthusiasts. My main caveats with them is the same as the Davis stations. Their quality is strictly limited by their siting. Mass observations (temperature, humidity) should be 2 m above ground level and shielded from sunlight, and momentum observations (wind) should be 10 m above ground level with a clear exposure on all sides. Rarely are these stations setup this way, so they are almost always biased. This is especially true for wind observations which are practically useless outside of NWS stations.


----------



## sull1102 (Oct 25, 2016)

K just announced they load lifts at noon today.


----------



## Jully (Oct 25, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> K just announced they load lifts at noon today.



Here's to hoping they last throughout the weekend!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 25, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> I say just stick with tuna's forecasts. If he says it's going to dump stay home.



One less crappy, snowplowin' across the slope skier I have to worry about dodging.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 25, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> One less crappy, snowplowin' across the slope skier I have to worry about dodging.



If you make it to the slopes!


----------



## MEtoVTSkier (Oct 25, 2016)

I was going to say, we all hope your skiing skills are much better than your driving skills! :lol:


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 25, 2016)

hahaha... speaking of driving I was up in Lincoln NH over the weekend, it was nice to see some snow up in the mountains.. snapped this pic


----------



## machski (Oct 25, 2016)

Jully said:


> SR has northern lights lit up top to bottom as of this morning too. I wonder if they will be able to/want to rush to open before this weekend and warm up or wait until after it passes and miss the chance at October turns.



Actually, Northern Lights is not currently top to bottom.  The guns are only on until the pitch just before the Firestar trail.


----------



## Jully (Oct 25, 2016)

machski said:


> Actually, Northern Lights is not currently top to bottom.  The guns are only on until the pitch just before the Firestar trail.
> View attachment 20907



Shoot you're right. I didn't look closely enough at the trail right before the trees block your view. Still pretty good though!


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 25, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> hahaha... speaking of driving I was up in Lincoln NH over the weekend, it was nice to see some snow up in the mountains.. snapped this pic



top of Kinsman Notch


----------



## VTKilarney (Oct 26, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> hahaha... speaking of driving I was up in Lincoln NH over the weekend, it was nice to see some snow up in the mountains.. snapped this pic
> 
> View attachment 20906



Don't you hate it when someone drives into your frame and ruins what would have been a really nice photo?


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 26, 2016)

HA HA

I hope you took one without the car, too Tuna!


----------



## SkiingInABlueDream (Oct 26, 2016)

I think the photo works with the car, even if it'd be better suited to a Subaru forum. But in a car forum they'd chide you for having the front wheel turned the wrong way!


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 26, 2016)

it was a big hit in the Subaru forum


----------



## Cornhead (Oct 26, 2016)

This site, mountain forecast, seems to be over optimistic from what I remember from last year, but if right K could have 9.4" at elevation by Friday afternoon.


----------



## Tin (Oct 26, 2016)

Cornhead said:


> This site, mountain forecast, seems to be over optimistic from what I remember from last year, but if right K could have 9.4" at elevation by Friday afternoon.
> View attachment 20909




Two different NWS forecasts have them 5-10" and 6"+. Only time it will mix on the ridge will be between 2-4am Friday. Down lower it could be mostly rain. I'm definitely heading up Friday am to poach the mighty Powerline.


----------



## Jully (Oct 26, 2016)

Looks a little more crowded today! Still doesn't seem too bad though.


----------



## dlague (Oct 26, 2016)

Jully said:


> Looks a little more crowded today! Still doesn't seem too bad though.
> 
> View attachment 20922



I am amazed at how crowds form like that.  It is a triple and not that fast and there is about 600 vert to ski with a straight shot down Rime.


----------



## Jully (Oct 26, 2016)

dlague said:


> I am amazed at how crowds form like that.  It is a triple and not that fast and there is about 600 vert to ski with a straight shot down Rime.



That is made worse by the park, but even still it is fascinating how people can crowd up a 600 vert trail...


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 26, 2016)

most of those people are waiting for hits in the park it appears.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Oct 26, 2016)

Jully said:


> Looks a little more crowded today! Still doesn't seem too bad though.
> 
> View attachment 20922


How about now?No thanks guys.I counted at least 50 at one point.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Oct 26, 2016)

What I found interesting is there is more natural snow at K than at A-basin and Loveland.Looks like better temps too as K is blowing TTB right now and those 2 are shut down.


----------



## dlague (Oct 26, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> What I found interesting is there is more natural snow at K than at A-basin and Loveland.Looks like better temps too as K is blowing TTB right now and those 2 are shut down.



The northeast is getting the better weather by far!  Too warm here this week. No promising signs of colder weather until next week.  We plan on skiing this weekend but I would imagine that  they will need cold weather soon.  I am glad for you all now that Killington is open.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 26, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> What I found interesting is there is more natural snow at K than at A-basin and Loveland.Looks like better temps too as K is blowing TTB right now and those 2 are shut down.



Just on Superstar though right? And that won't be open for the general public until after the race?


----------



## dlague (Oct 26, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> What I found interesting is there is more natural snow at K than at A-basin and Loveland.Looks like better temps too as K is blowing TTB right now and those 2 are shut down.



A Basin is still open!  Not much traffic but they are open.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 26, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> How about now?No thanks guys.I counted at least 50 at one point.



That was the park. Only went down that way 2 0r 3 times today. There was hardly any lines today because all these park rats just stayed up there and walked back up to get more hits. I skied 10-3 today and they were blowing all day. Bumps formed nicely, when you could see they were fun. Never waited in line for more than 2 or 3 minutes. Last year on a early season weekend there was a 20 minute wait. Good opening day.


----------



## machski (Oct 26, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Just on Superstar though right? And that won't be open for the general public until after the race?



Correct and Killington apparently confirmed as much on a FB post.  They also mentioned SS is not "retail snow".  The density and moisture content is being made to WC standards already apparently.  Mike S even mentioned they would need some time to till it and change it back to "retail snow" after the race.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Oct 27, 2016)

ah thanks


----------



## slatham (Oct 27, 2016)

No info on conditions or trail report but Peak View cam shows guns on Snowdon.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 27, 2016)

slatham said:


> No info on conditions or trail report but Peak View cam shows guns on Snowdon.



Yes they had one gun going over there yesterday afternoon at the bottom of mouse trap. The fan gun mounted on the tall pole


----------



## chuckstah (Oct 27, 2016)

There was also a gun or 2 running today at the base of the slowden quad.  

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## Tin (Oct 28, 2016)

Heading up there this morning with a bogo. If anyone else is shoot me a pm.


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 28, 2016)

Tin said:


> Heading up there this morning with a bogo. If anyone else is shoot me a pm.



Could be a little wet up there today hopefully it stays in the frozen form for you.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 28, 2016)

Since no one else mentioned it, Killington received 10" of snow between yesterday and today. According to the report, that was larger than any storm last season!!

While no "official" expansion, I have to imagine that there is poaching going on all over.


----------



## chuckstah (Oct 28, 2016)

Great Northern is now open to ski down from the top and Upper Dipper is open.  

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## 180 (Oct 28, 2016)

yes1


----------



## joshua segal (Oct 28, 2016)

chuckstah said:


> Great Northern is now open to ski down from the top and Upper Dipper is open.
> 
> AlpineZone mobile app



Just got a call from a friend who poached Cascade.  While no ropes have been dropped, apparently there are a lot of people not using the stairway today!  Killington, I think has already received more snow to date than it received all last season before Dec. 15 or so.


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## benski (Oct 28, 2016)

They are already more than a quarter of the way beating my last years total of 55inches.


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## Tin (Oct 28, 2016)

Poached Casade and Double Dipper. Two of the better runs of my life. Felt like I was surfing. NO base scrapes and only had to walk a out 150' out. Pics to come.


----------



## Jully (Oct 28, 2016)

benski said:


> They are already more than a quarter of the way beating my last years total of 55inches.



I think October is the second snowiest month of 2016 now. Or at least close to it.


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 11, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYT4RF5nd9s

Insane.


----------



## Jully (Nov 11, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYT4RF5nd9s
> 
> Insane.



Woah.


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## dlague (Nov 11, 2016)

Going to town!  That's Killington for you!

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## sull1102 (Nov 11, 2016)

MY GOD. Can't even imagine the attack underway at the summit.

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## machski (Nov 11, 2016)

sull1102 said:


> MY GOD. Can't even imagine the attack underway at the summit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925P using AlpineZone mobile app


Which "Summit"?  If you mean Killington Peak, not nearly close to as impressive as SS.


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## mbedle (Nov 11, 2016)

That is pretty impressive. I wonder how this lack of snow and open terrain will hurt attendance at the race.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 11, 2016)

It might actually help. If other area mountains don't have much to offer that weekend people could be looking for alternate entertainment

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## dlague (Nov 11, 2016)

mbedle said:


> That is pretty impressive. I wonder how this lack of snow and open terrain will hurt attendance at the race.



My guess people will come maybe not as many as there might have been, but my bigger concern would be related to the volume of people that might ski that weekend with limited terrain.  Yes not everyone will be skiing or snowboarding but there may be more than usual.  Thanksgiving weekend is the first real window for skiing for many and it looks like terrain will be limited everywhere but more crowded at K.


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## mriceyman (Nov 11, 2016)

They need to drone ss from bottom to top and back again.. would be awesome to see 150 guns going from both sides


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 11, 2016)

Superstar is lit from top of the bottom headwall all the way to the top again.  Have to give them props for working in marginal conditions. Wet snow is perfect for what they are trying to achieve for the race course.


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## cdskier (Nov 11, 2016)

Impressive for sure. They really have no choice though and need to take advantage of any and all windows at this point even if they are marginal.


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## dlague (Nov 11, 2016)

Looking at Web cams I noticed a few things.  1) Still blowing snow on SS but temps must be close to stopping.  2) Nothing gong on up top on North Ridge  3) Looks like you still have to take the stairs down to ski.

Also notice that tonight there will be an opportunity then the temps appear like they will be a tad to warm to try anything which makes it very clear why they are having the all out assault on SS.

Edit:  Just noticed in The Drift they mention that they reopened Upper Great Northern.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 11, 2016)

dlague said:


> Looking at Web cams I noticed a few things.  1) Still blowing snow on SS but temps must be close to stopping.  2) Nothing gong on up top on North Ridge  3) Looks like you still have to take the stairs down to ski.
> 
> Also notice that tonight there will be an opportunity then the temps appear like they will be a tad to warm to try anything which makes it very clear why they are having the all out assault on SS.
> 
> Edit:  Just noticed in The Drift they mention that they reopened Upper Great Northern.


Ski down....stairs back up.

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## cdskier (Nov 11, 2016)

dlague said:


> Looking at Web cams I noticed a few things.  1) Still blowing snow on SS but temps must be close to stopping.



What do you mean by close to stopping? Temps were forecasted to drop throughout the day from what I heard. Colder now than it was at 6am. When I looked at the Superstar cam around 9 or 10am, they weren't even making anything on the lower part. Now all the guns at the bottom are running.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 11, 2016)

cdskier said:


> What do you mean by close to stopping? Temps were forecasted to drop throughout the day from what I heard. Colder now than it was at 6am. When I looked at the Superstar cam around 9 or 10am, they weren't even making anything on the lower part. Now all the guns at the bottom are running.



Exactly.In fact,they just turned those on.They were not running this morning.SS should be in great shape by the end of the weekend.They should be able to make snow non stop into Sunday.


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## Jully (Nov 11, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> Exactly.In fact,they just turned those on.They were not running this morning.SS should be in great shape by the end of the weekend.They should be able to make snow non stop into Sunday.



That's a lot of hours right there. It'll be interesting to see what kind of shape they'll be in after this! I heard they were pushing snow around on part of SS recently too. 

Then again, I heard from a _reputable _source that it'll be a miracle if K pulls this off.


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## 180 (Nov 11, 2016)

Blowing all SS, just got off the hill.  They also groomed it last night


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 11, 2016)

180 said:


> Blowing all SS, just got off the hill.  They also groomed it last night


They need to go ttb

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## Newpylong (Nov 11, 2016)

Jully said:


> That's a lot of hours right there. It'll be interesting to see what kind of shape they'll be in after this! I heard they were pushing snow around on part of SS recently too.
> 
> Then again, I heard from a _reputable _source that it'll be a miracle if K pulls this off.



They're actually coming into the home stretch on production on SS and will begin to move onto Skye Lark and begin heavily working the snow on SS with the cats.


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## joshua segal (Nov 12, 2016)

Newpylong said:


> They're actually coming into the home stretch on production on SS and will begin to move onto Skye Lark and begin heavily working the snow on SS with the cats.



They had put a lot of snow on Upper Skyelark concurrent with their covering of the SS Headwall.  Barring total melt down wx, I don't see Killington having any trouble making their World Cup commitment on Superstar.  They have have made A LOT of snow there.


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## Tin (Nov 12, 2016)

Looking like they are putting all their resources on SS again today. 23* and no guns going on the ridge but SS is getting crushed.


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## andrec10 (Nov 12, 2016)

They need to make the World cup happen. Too much at stake and it need to be ready pretty soon.


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## Tin (Nov 12, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> They need to make the World cup happen. Too much at stake and it need to be ready pretty soon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone




I agree 100%. But then don't come out with releases and state in interviews how the World Cup preps will have no effect on early season operations and openings (because you've rented extra compressors, etc.) and you're still focused on the consumer.This is a solid window that could have been used to start getting over to Snowdon and getting to bottom and they are not even resurfacing up top (which they also bailed on doing earlier in the week).


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## Jully (Nov 12, 2016)

You sure they would be moving into Snowdon? The weather still doesn't look great long term so they might just wanna wait.

With the amount of work it's taken for K to get SS ready, do you think this is something they'd want to do every year?


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## Savemeasammy (Nov 12, 2016)

Tin said:


> I agree 100%. But then don't come out with releases and state in interviews how the World Cup preps will have no effect on early season operations and openings (because you've rented extra compressors, etc.) and you're still focused on the consumer.This is a solid window that could have been used to start getting over to Snowdon and getting to bottom and they are not even resurfacing up top (which they also bailed on doing earlier in the week).



Right.  It's disappointing that they aren't making an effort for t2b...  I wonder if they have maxed out water capacity?

Also, what's up with the peak view cam being aimed at Pico?  It's been a few days now...


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## joshua segal (Nov 12, 2016)

Jully said:


> You sure they would be moving into Snowdon? The weather still doesn't look great long term so they might just wanna wait.
> 
> ...


Considering that no on else has even attempted to open, I think Killington is being wise using their fire power to keep the North Ridge going and to make their World Cup commitment on Superstar.


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## Jully (Nov 12, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Considering that no on else has even attempted to open, I think Killington is being wise using their fire power to keep the North Ridge going and to make their World Cup commitment on Superstar.



Thats what I was thinking too. Rime has thinned a few times, if they didn't keep blasting I'm not sure it'd be in great shape now


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## jaybird (Nov 12, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Considering that no on else has even attempted to open, I think Killington is being wise using their fire power to keep the North Ridge going and to make their World Cup commitment on Superstar.



Right ON !

Killington is open and the skiing is pretty good there.
Anybody with complaints should open their own terrain park.

Happy Place is sucking tailpipe .. again.


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## ss20 (Nov 12, 2016)

Snow report says they're blowing TTB now so the last page of this thread is now irrelevant...


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## Tin (Nov 12, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Snow report says they're blowing TTB now so the last page of this thread is now irrelevant...




Just saw that too. Awesome news.


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## JimG. (Nov 12, 2016)

Thinking of heading up Tues.


----------



## mriceyman (Nov 12, 2016)

Keyboard GMs ftw


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## joshua segal (Nov 12, 2016)

ss20 said:


> Snow report says they're blowing TTB now so the last page of this thread is now irrelevant...


Probably nit-picking, but they indicated that they are blowing on Lower Bunny Buster and Mouse Trap.  Neither of those provides a continuous path to anything!  What's more, they had already been blowing snow down there two weeks ago.  Progress down the mountain (IMO) really begins when they start to work on Great Northern (Middle) so that one can get back down the hill without climbing 250 steps!


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## 180 (Nov 12, 2016)

Today they turned the guns on Upper East Fall at 9am,  They also are blowing from the mid-station on the triple to the bottom for World Cup training.  As everyone knows, temps for the most part have been marginal.  Its an amazing effort they have been putting out.  Thank god for the stairs.  Saw a snowmaker walking across lower SS about 100 yards up and he was up to his hips in snow.  I say, as long as we have no monsoons or fog, they will pull it off.


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## ss20 (Nov 13, 2016)

Holy shit.  45 hours of snowmaking yielded this: http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/webcam/superstar.html

That's incredible.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2016)

I wish they weren't having this race, which I could care less about. Seems like they could have more open by now even with the mild temperatures without it.


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## andrec10 (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I wish they weren't having this race, which I could care less about. Seems like they could have more open by now even with the mild temperatures without it.



Wish elsewhere...


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## mriceyman (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I wish they weren't having this race, which I could care less about. Seems like they could have more open by now even with the mild temperatures without it.



Really? Cmon man no one else could even get open. 


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## yeggous (Nov 13, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> Really? Cmon man no one else could even get open.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



False. Some of us skied Bretton Woods today.


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## machski (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> I wish they weren't having this race, which I could care less about. Seems like they could have more open by now even with the mild temperatures without it.


Really?  They are only pushing what they are on SS because of FIS and USSA money pumped in.  Talk is the extra compressors they have now go back after race weekend.  So no, without the race, public skiing would be no different.  Killington has been conservative with expansion off North Ridge for several seasons now.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2016)

Seems to me if they can get SS covered they can go top to bottom with the same intentionality. Maybe I'm not dedicated to the sport but I would like more than Rime and Reason to open with walks involved to get up there.

It's just my opinion though, as someone who relies on K for early and late season skiing, and selfishly I'd rather go skiing early season than have Killington host a race that I will not watch or care about the results.

Killington is not known for being conservative on expansion early season and this year's effort is disappointing even with some warm days involved.

Bromley went top to bottom practically ready to open if they wanted to overnight. If Killington wanted to they could be top to bottom by now.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2016)

They actually have been conservative expanding down from North Ridge in recent years.  Several places were top to bottom last year while Killington was still offering stair served skiing.


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## ss20 (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Seems to me if they can get SS covered they can go top to bottom with the same intentionality. Maybe I'm not dedicated to the sport but I would like more than Rime and Reason to open with walks involved to get up there.
> 
> Killington is not known for being conservative on expansion early season and this year's effort is disappointing even with some warm days involved.
> 
> Bromley went top to bottom practically ready to open if they wanted to overnight. If Killington wanted to they could be top to bottom by now.



1. The FIS is putting money into Superstar's snowmaking budget.
2. Killington will make a hellova lot more money in F&B, lodging, grandstand tickets, and merchandise by having the World Cup than having TTB on Snowdon. 
3. No other trail at Killington has the snowmaking infrastructure to do a 150 gun assault.  They put a lot of money into the trail's snowmaking over the offseason to make it World Cup ready.  To upgrade a trail off of Snowdon to allow it to have the assault Superstar just went under would be stupid because it's "pay off" time would be the 1-2 weeks when there is only one TTB route down the hill.  Compared to Superstar, who's snowmaking infrastructure gives it the ability to stay open till June.  
4. Publicity: World Cup > Top-to-bottom skiing
5. Killington has been conservative going TTB ever since the stairway went in.  
6. That Bromley claim is a load of bullshit.  


Killington is kicking serious ass right now... their first "competition" to them just opened up today, after K's been open for THREE WEEKS.  And that "competition" opened up with six inches of snow on a ski trail that's flat enough to be a golf course...while Killington has 2-4 feet of snow on a legitimate black diamond trail.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2016)

ss20 said:


> 6. That Bromley claim is a load of bullshit.



Don't knock Bromley's dedication to snowmaking.. they may not have an early opening date but they sure are showing off.

https://www.facebook.com/Bromleymountain/posts/10155406734820744

Again I don't care about the race but I buy a Killington Express card every year and go there as much as I can. Great mountain. They could have done better for skiers early season without the race. Get upset if you want it's not going to change any of those facts.



deadheadskier said:


> They actually have been conservative expanding down from North Ridge in recent years.  Several places were top to bottom last year while Killington was still offering stair served skiing.



You're right, even Okemo beat them early season the last couple years on terrain. But what they're doing with Superstar shows that it doesn't have to be that way. SS base elevation is same as K-1 base elevation.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2016)

Stratton blowing T2B multiple trails at once
https://www.facebook.com/StrattonMo....9189524466/10154696768154467/?type=3&theater

note that is < 24 hours of snowmaking progress


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2016)

Tuna - I don't think the World Cup efforts on Superstar and blowing to the base of Snowdon are necessarily mutually exclusive.  You agreed that they were slower than other areas going TTB last season.  If there was no race going on, I'm not certain they would be TTB now instead.  If they didn't do it last year, what makes you think they would this year absent of the race?


----------



## bdfreetuna (Nov 13, 2016)

My logic isn't flawless on this one and I'm not a K snowmaking ops insider, I'm just generally saying Killington could be more aggressive early season to get a half respectable amount of terrain open considering they open so early, as we can see comparing them to others, some of which have lower elevation and further south.. but now we have the top to bottom blowing on Superstar as further evidence that if K *wanted* to go T-2-B by now on Snowden and/or Cascade, for example, they could have done it.

I say this more as encouragement and in hopes that they focus on the task of going T2B early in the future as someone who supports the mountain. November is a rediculous time to hold a World Cup race in Vermont anyway, maybe they should hold out for races that don't arguably compete with their ability and/or will to expand terrain at the very start of the season.


----------



## benski (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> My logic isn't flawless on this one and I'm not a K snowmaking ops insider, I'm just generally saying Killington could be more aggressive early season to get a half respectable amount of terrain open considering they open so early, as we can see comparing them to others, some of which have lower elevation and further south.. but now we have the top to bottom blowing on Superstar as further evidence that if K *wanted* to go T-2-B by now on Snowden and/or Cascade, for example, they could have done it.
> 
> I say this more as encouragement and in hopes that they focus on the task of going T2B early in the future as someone who supports the mountain. November is a rediculous time to hold a World Cup race in Vermont anyway, maybe they should hold out for races that don't arguably compete with their ability and/or will to expand terrain at the very start of the season.



They might make more money off the early season race than later in the season since it gives them another good weekend in terms of lodging and tickets.


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## ss20 (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Again I don't care about the race but I buy a Killington Express card every year and go there as much as I can. Great mountain. They could have done better for skiers early season without the race. Get upset if you want it's not going to change any of those facts.



I'm upset?  Me?  The one who defended Killington?  The one who isn't complaining about early season offerings...and applauded them over the fact that they're...I'll quote myself..."kicking ass" over the competition?  Can you see my signature?  I've already got one day in at Killington...3.5 hours each way and paid full price for a lift ticket to ski two trails...and happy I did it.  

I am upset with myself because I know arguing with you is completely pointless and instantly regretted responding to your post as soon as I replied.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 13, 2016)

Tuna - this is a one off race because the season Championship is being held at Aspen.  Aspen normally hosts the Women this weekend, so they needed to find another venue early season as to avoid a repeat.  So, Killington stepped up.  First WC race in Vermont in 38 years.  They would likely never be offered a later season date.  Though maybe if this is successful they might.  Who knows. 

The reality is that even without what they've done on Superstar, their efforts have been better than anyone else in the region to date by far.  Yes, seeing what they've done on Superstar can make you wonder what they could do on Cascade, Snowdon etc., but would it be a wise business decision?  Probably not.  If it was, they'd have done it last year.


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## cdskier (Nov 13, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> but now we have the top to bottom blowing on Superstar as further evidence that if K *wanted* to go T-2-B by now on Snowden and/or Cascade, for example, they could have done it.



I don't necessarily agree. Blowing T2B at any point this season so far with the weather we've had and the forecasts would have been a very risky move. They did it on SS because they were pretty much forced to take advantage of any opportunity including marginal temps to do whatever they can to ensure they can host the WC race. Without the race, it would have been a very questionable effort on any other trails. On top of that other trails don't have the possibility of having the level of firepower aimed at it that SS does...so you wouldn't have had the level of production on other trails that you're getting on SS. This weekend was really the first major opportunity to make snow to the base (and it wasn't as good as forecasts originally said it would be). While Stratton and Bromley may have had guns going, how much production did they actually get at the base? Did Stratton or Bromley share any pics of the progress at the base after they turned off the guns today when temps warmed up?

Pushing to go T2B too early when you don't need to is a very risk move. Stick to the North Ridge area and blow to the base when you have optimal snowmaking conditions combined with a decent upcoming forecast so it doesn't all melt... I'll be curious to see how much Stratton and Bromley have left at the base after this week.


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## yeggous (Nov 13, 2016)

This discussion comes up every year. K-Mart fan boys brag about getting early stair-serviced runs. Then they cry when everyone else is skiing top-to-bottom and they are stuck on the stairs and short fixed grip lift.


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## Jully (Nov 14, 2016)

I don't think tuna is necessarily acting like a K fanboy though. K's display on SS is certainly proof that they could get open TTB earlier if they wanted, the reason they aren't is not because of the world cup race, its cause of their strategy. K is mighty aggressive up top early season, but they then don't expand because they seem to then act conservatively to save money. They recoup any expenses they incur by being aggressive in October by not risking it in Nov to get TTB. That's how their early season model is profitable/possible imo. They would never make money going through Snowdon right now and it would cost a fortune.


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## Smellytele (Nov 14, 2016)

They better hope for some colder weather beyond the 7 day. I see one night where it is 32 and and only 32 that is it over the next 7 days. That is at about 3400 ft. That also comes with a chance of showers so very moist.


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## mriceyman (Nov 14, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> They better hope for some colder weather beyond the 7 day. I see one night where it is 32 and and only 32 that is it over the next 7 days. That is at about 3400 ft. That also comes with a chance of showers so very moist.



Yea at this point day 6-7 is when the tables should turn and snowmaking will be at will. 


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## Tin (Nov 14, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> Yea at this point day 6-7 is when the tables should turn and snowmaking will be at will.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Day 7-8 has been mother nature making the snow for the past several days on most the models. So consistent and in agreement I refuse to believe it. Was expecting it to disappear once we got within 10 days but shockingly it is still there.


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## slatham (Nov 14, 2016)

I was shocked to see them making snow this morning, and it looks like they put some snow down overnight on Middle Great Northern. All data points - Mt Mansfield, Mt Washington, Stratton, Sugarbush - indicated non-snowmaking temps so I am puzzled. Micro climate at work?


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## Newpylong (Nov 14, 2016)

I rather ski T2B but different snow making and business philosophies are at work here and nothing more. 

K building deeper base in North Ridge and expending little effort elsewhere until long range forecast looks better. Remember they've been open for the better part of a month now. Others looking to dust a couple routes to get open. A good rain event and everyone but K is sh*t out of luck. Some may argue or one way or the other is better, all semantics when you're not paying the bills.

Snowmaking on Superstar is exclusive to T2B production. They have done the same roll out for years. Yes they could do it if they wanted, but see comments above.


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 14, 2016)

ss20 said:


> I'm upset?  Me?  The one who defended Killington?  The one who isn't complaining about early season offerings...and applauded them over the fact that they're...I'll quote myself..."kicking ass" over the competition?  Can you see my signature?  I've already got one day in at Killington...3.5 hours each way and paid full price for a lift ticket to ski two trails...and happy I did it.
> 
> I am upset with myself because I know arguing with you is completely pointless and instantly regretted responding to your post as soon as I replied.



It usually is pointless to argue with people who aren't looking to have an argument.


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## cdskier (Nov 14, 2016)

Wasn't it just last year when we had all that significant warmth in December that people complained that K didn't build enough base on the open trails and was trying to spread out too quickly with not enough base down?


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## Jully (Nov 14, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Wasn't it just last year when we had all that significant warmth in December that people complained that K didn't build enough base on the open trails and was trying to spread out too quickly with not enough base down?



They're certainly not letting that happen this year! I don't recall, but if last year K was more aggressive with expansion and then got burned (literally) that makes perfect sense that they are now going to double down on north ridge bases. I'd bet they were rather embarrassed to have to close as they pride themselves on operating daily from the start. Warm year or not.


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## slatham (Nov 14, 2016)

Two very good points regarding "relatively" slow expansion: 1) Last year, which had to hurt BAD; 2) and the forecast, which has never offered solid cold followed by more cold - its been marginal cold followed by extended non-snowmaking weather. They've gone a pretty good job - especially getting so much down on SS.

I just hope the cold next week comes in quickly enough, strongly enough, and stays.


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## cdskier (Nov 14, 2016)

Last year K opened on 10/16, closed on 10/25, and then re-opened again on 11/15. They made it T2B just in time for Thanksgiving. I don't receive daily reports from K in my e-mail, so I can't look back at how exact trail counts fluctuated in December. I thought a few trails either ended up closing or became very thin for a few days here and there during the December warmth.


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## Tin (Nov 14, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Last year K opened on 10/16, closed on 10/25, and then re-opened again on 11/15. They made it T2B just in time for Thanksgiving. I don't receive daily reports from K in my e-mail, so I can't look back at how exact trail counts fluctuated in December. I thought a few trails either ended up closing or became very thin for a few days here and there during the December warmth.



And three years ago today we were skiing 50+ trails, including SS head wall, lower East Fall, Skyelark and Skyehawk (there was that much blowover from SS), Bittersweet, and almost everything on Snowdon with less natural than we have received this year. Just goes to show what they can do when they have the cold.


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## slatham (Nov 14, 2016)

Tin said:


> And three years ago today we were skiing 50+ trails, including SS head wall, lower East Fall, Skyelark and Skyehawk (there was that much blowover from SS), Bittersweet, and almost everything on Snowdon with less natural than we have received this year. Just goes to show what they can do when they have the cold.



That was the coldest November on record! I'll be happy with normal to slightly below and well timed cold with precip.....


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## WoodCore (Nov 14, 2016)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154257424974401


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## Newpylong (Nov 15, 2016)

Beastly, plain and simple.


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## Smellytele (Nov 15, 2016)

looks like they are testing the canyon chair right now and Superstar


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## Smellytele (Nov 15, 2016)

this camera is pointing the wrong way...
http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/webcam/golf.html


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## KustyTheKlown (Nov 15, 2016)

i've been away from the internet, but am happy to be back to report that I WENT SKIING LAST FRIDAY!

typical early season k day, but boy oh boy did it feel good. skied about 11k vertical feet over 21 runs from 9:30-2, and was home by 7.


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## mriceyman (Nov 15, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i've been away from the internet, but am happy to be back to report that I WENT SKIING LAST FRIDAY!
> 
> typical early season k day, but boy oh boy did it feel good. skied about 11k vertical feet over 21 runs from 9:30-2, and was home by 7.



Nice job krusty.. cant wait for the 1st day


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## machski (Nov 16, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> looks like they are testing the canyon chair right now and Superstar


Canyon chair was turning day 1 for public back in October.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 16, 2016)

machski said:


> Canyon chair was turning day 1 for public back in October.


Your talking about the North ridge triple I believe. The canyon chair starts below lower East fall.

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## Tin (Nov 16, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> Your talking about the North ridge triple I believe. The canyon chair starts below lower East fall.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H901 using AlpineZone mobile app




Could of used it October 28th. Anyone heading up Monday or Tuesday for part 2?


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## dlague (Nov 16, 2016)

machski said:


> Canyon chair was turning day 1 for public back in October.


Nope


ALLSKIING said:


> Your talking about the North ridge triple I believe. The canyon chair starts below lower East fall.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H901 using AlpineZone mobile app


Yup!

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## SIKSKIER (Nov 16, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> Your talking about the North ridge triple I believe. The canyon chair starts below lower East fall.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H901 using AlpineZone mobile app


Exactly.I check the K cams daily during the week this time of year.That was the first I saw it running also.


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## jaybird (Nov 16, 2016)

yeggous said:


> This discussion comes up every year. K-Mart fan boys brag about getting early stair-serviced runs. Then they cry when everyone else is skiing top-to-bottom and they are stuck on the stairs and short fixed grip lift.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Have skied Cascade TTB already this year on 10-12" natural.
Yeah, we cried .. it was crappy.

The TTB constraint this year is mainly due to manpower.
Being attentive to FIS is job 1.

Let us know when your piss ant hill even opens.


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## Tin (Nov 16, 2016)

jaybird said:


> Have skied Cascade TTB already this year on 10-12" natural.
> Yeah, we cried .. it was crappy.



K early and late is great, no argument there. However, their policies on opening trails still sucks. They had the need to place 2-3 staffers at every roped trail to keep people on the ridge and a quick stop and look got a "Don't even think about it!" yell. I got "a warning" for poaching Powerline that day yet was asked "How was it?" by staff when hiking out of the Canyon area towards the base, such a joke.


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## dlague (Nov 16, 2016)

Tin said:


> K early and late is great, no argument there. However, their policies on opening trails still sucks. They had the need to place 2-3 staffers at every roped trail to keep people on the ridge and a quick stop and look got a "Don't even think about it!" yell. I got "a warning" for poaching Powerline that day yet was asked "How was it?" by staff when hiking out of the Canyon area towards the base, such a joke.


I have only been there once where North Ridge only was open and there happened to be a storm that delivered 11 inches.  People were poaching all day and the ski patrol seemed to look the other way.

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## Puck it (Nov 16, 2016)

Tin said:


> K early and late is great, no argument there. However, their policies on opening trails still sucks. They had the need to place 2-3 staffers at every roped trail to keep people on the ridge and a quick stop and look got a "Don't even think about it!" yell. I got "a warning" for poaching Powerline that day yet was asked "How was it?" by staff when hiking out of the Canyon area towards the base, such a joke.


Poaching can be bad for your appendages.   I know.


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## dlague (Nov 16, 2016)

Puck it said:


> Poaching can be bad for your appendages.   I know.


Ya for crazy people!

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## JDMRoma (Nov 16, 2016)

Puck it said:


> Poaching can be bad for your appendages.   I know.



Poaching the same trail 3 times may have been the issue. We were having way too much fun if I recall until the incident......


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## jaybird (Nov 16, 2016)

Tin said:


> I got "a warning" for poaching Powerline that day yet was asked "How was it?" by staff when hiking out of the Canyon area towards the base, such a joke.



Powerline isn't worth the effort unless it's buried.
Patrol hate evac'ing gapers out of there.
If you had to hike Spillway, you need to wax better. :wink:

Shiffrin toured the course venue yestersday. 
She's a Doll.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 16, 2016)

jaybird said:


> Powerline isn't worth the effort unless it's buried.
> Patrol hate evac'ing gapers out of there.
> If you had to hike Spillway, you need to wax better. :wink:
> 
> ...


Are you talking about upper or lower?

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## machski (Nov 16, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> Your talking about the North ridge triple I believe. The canyon chair starts below lower East fall.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H901 using AlpineZone mobile app


No, I was talking Canyon Quad.  I did not say it was loading.


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## njdiver85 (Nov 17, 2016)

Any guesses to how the conditions will be on Saturday?  Thinking of heading up for a few runs.


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## Smellytele (Nov 17, 2016)

njdiver85 said:


> Any guesses to how the conditions will be on Saturday?  Thinking of heading up for a few runs.



Can you say spring skiing?


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## prsboogie (Nov 17, 2016)

Headed up tomorrow, day one. 


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## Madroch (Nov 17, 2016)

Contemplating K sat just to get some turns-- but the potential crowd has me worried..


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 17, 2016)

njdiver85 said:


> Any guesses to how the conditions will be on Saturday?  Thinking of heading up for a few runs.


From the Mt Washington Obs:
Bad news:Temperatures will rise slowly today before the warmest air moves in overnight and tomorrow, likely raising the mercury above daily record highs Friday and Saturday
Good news:This system will then bring unsettled weather to the region over the weekend while leaving much colder temperatures in its wake on Sunday that will last into the next workweek.


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## jaybird (Nov 17, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> Are you talking about upper or lower?
> 
> Middle spillway :smile: .. from there down it's fast if you just lasso one of the service vehicles.
> 
> Sent from my LG


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2016)

Killington passed snow control check this morning for the World Cup races!  Game on!

Can't wait to see live in person Miichaela score her 1st World Cup GS win, on my birthday no less, a week from Saturday up at Killington!  And my kids getting to participate in a finish area pre-race parade of Vermont Alpine Racing Association athletes before the 1st run will be a really cool thing for them as well! 

Kuddos to the awesome snowmakers at K for pulling this off in what has been an often challenging last month or so of snowmaking windows and temps!!


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## mriceyman (Nov 17, 2016)

Awesome


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## from_the_NEK (Nov 17, 2016)

drjeff said:


> Killington passed snow control check this morning for the World Cup races!  Game on!
> ...
> Kuddos to the awesome snowmakers at K for pulling this off in what has been an often challenging last month or so of snowmaking windows and temps!!



  So now that they have passed the control check, do they stop making snow on the course? It seems like they may need a refresher after the warm weather of the next few days.

And that is cool that your kid gets to participate in some of the activities.


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## tumbler (Nov 17, 2016)

from_the_NEK said:


> So now that they have passed the control check, do they stop making snow on the course? It seems like they may need a refresher after the warm weather of the next few days.
> 
> And that is cool that your kid gets to participate in some of the activities.



I bet no more snowmaking, the thaw/freeze is exactly what they want!


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## 180 (Nov 17, 2016)

My Son is one of the KMS Ambassadors leading the Parade.  Should be awesome!


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 17, 2016)

http://alpine.usskiteam.com/news/killington-world-cup-confirmed


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2016)

from_the_NEK said:


> So now that they have passed the control check, do they stop making snow on the course? It seems like they may need a refresher after the warm weather of the next few days.
> 
> And that is cool that your kid gets to participate in some of the activities.



My guess is that once they get the temps later this weekend, they'll lay down, especially down low, another 24 to maybe as much as 48hrs of thick, wet snow, quickly plow it out and let it set up to see if they need to inject it or not on Wed/Thursday.  Probably won't be the full "120 gun salute" that Superstar got as they were making the snow they've already done, and then Skye/Bitter get lit up for training lanes for the WC athlete's with some of the capacity they had for Superstar, but won't need to touch up a few areas.

My kids are really psyched about the opportunity they're getting with the parade.  I can only image how many selfies and regular pictures my almost 13yr old daughter will be taking during the parade and inside the fencing around the finish area prior to the race!!  :lol:


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 17, 2016)

And the mens world cup was cancelled in Lake Louise.Interesting because those races dont begin until Nov 26th a full 10 days from the announcment.The snowmaking system must be pretty subpar unless a huge heatwave is coming for them.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 17, 2016)

tumbler said:


> I bet no more snowmaking, the thaw/freeze is exactly what they want!



With snowmaking now mostly concluded on Superstar trail, the World Cup race venue, Killington snowmakers will work to add a training run for World Cup racers on Skye Lark while also connecting open ski terrain to K-1, Snowshed and Ramshead base areas for public use, and adding more beginner and intermediate terrain ahead of the holiday period.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 17, 2016)

The grandstands are now visible on the Superstar cam.Looks like there will no view at all on that cam for the races.Oh and they finally turned the peak view cam back to where it belongs.


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## Jully (Nov 17, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> With snowmaking now mostly concluded on Superstar trail, the World Cup race venue, Killington snowmakers will work to add a training run for World Cup racers on Skye Lark while also connecting open ski terrain to K-1, Snowshed and Ramshead base areas for public use, and adding more beginner and intermediate terrain ahead of the holiday period.



They'll use those extra compressors for as long as they have them it sounds like!


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## mriceyman (Nov 17, 2016)

Copper calling out killington.. meanwhile k has been open for 3 weeks 


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2016)

The cancelled DH at lake Louise vs the races at Killington are 2 completely different animals to run.  Killington, pretty much as long as they have the hill ready on Nov 25 for the 1st run course setting, that's perfectly fine. It's a bit less than a mile of trail to cover and even before they brought in the extra compressors, K already had a massive snowmaking system in place.

With the DH course at LL, they need to have it 100% ready 4 to 5 days before the event, as they need to set the gates, have a day of inspection, then ideally 3 days of training runs and then finally race day, plus you're talking about a roughly 2 mile long course they need to cover, with a system that in all likelihood isn't as powerful as the one that K now has just for Superstar, as historically between having over a month to make snow and natural snowfall, getting the speed courses at LL race ready isn't a big deal, so they haven't invested the extra $$ in putting in a MASSIVE snowmaking system on the course


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> View attachment 21008
> 
> Copper calling out killington.. meanwhile k has been open for 3 weeks
> 
> ...



Copper

Not sure why they tried to troll K?  Maybe the mutual owner thing?  

Copper has been skiing, just not open to the general public for a couple of weeks - just been open to the US and other national ski teams as well as a few high level ski academies and college race teams


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## joshua segal (Nov 17, 2016)

FYI: Killington just posted on their FB page that they have been green-lighted for the World Cup Event.


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## dlague (Nov 17, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> And the mens world cup was cancelled in Lake Louise.Interesting because those races dont begin until Nov 26th a full 10 days from the announcment.The snowmaking system must be pretty subpar unless a huge heatwave is coming for them.



I mentioned in my Loveland Trip report that was probably going to be the case since the Lake Louise ski team was skiing at Loveland.  I spoke to them and they said they have little to no snow!  They said they normally have several storms by now and generally not a problem.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 18, 2016)

And now Beaver Creek.The Birds of Prey has been cancelled.Damn,one of my top 3 races to watch.


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## mriceyman (Nov 18, 2016)

Winter just starting to crank up storms.. about 2 weeks late for these races tho


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## Smellytele (Nov 18, 2016)

Thinking Killington Sunday


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## andrec10 (Nov 18, 2016)

Be at Killington Friday to warmup for the world cup! Then the rest of the weekend of the Circus!


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## slatham (Nov 18, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> And now Beaver Creek.The Birds of Prey has been cancelled.Damn,one of my top 3 races to watch.



They should move it to the East!!!!


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## Jully (Nov 18, 2016)

slatham said:


> They should move it to the East!!!!



Honestly if Colorado continues to have early snow troubles (And the entire west to some extent) it wouldn't shock me if FIS moved a different race east to a northern-ish resort with some snowmaking firepower. If Sugarloaf ever finishes Caribou pond they could be a contender. Do Tremblant, Massif or Sainte Anne have significant snowmaking capabilities? Of course the downhill events in both LL and Birds of Prey are the problems for taking an event east.

Of course its up in the air if K will even get the race again next year. Wasn't this year just a substitution?


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## Smellytele (Nov 18, 2016)

slatham said:


> They should move it to the East!!!!



Nothing in the east compares to the Birds of Prey course.


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## andrec10 (Nov 18, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Nothing in the east compares to the Birds of Prey course.



The only course that comes close it at whiteface, but to would have to be re-certified.


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## prsboogie (Nov 18, 2016)

Mad Russian representing! Spring corn bumps


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## Jully (Nov 18, 2016)

What do people think the crowds on Sunday are going to be like with snow in the forecast and the like?


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## slatham (Nov 18, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> Nothing in the east compares to the Birds of Prey course.



It does if it has snow!


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## Smellytele (Nov 18, 2016)

slatham said:


> It does if it has snow!



it = ?


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 18, 2016)

Huh.They took down the Superstar cam but the Peak cam now has a close up of upper Superstar.


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## Jully (Nov 18, 2016)

Superstar cam seems to be working for me. Its heavily obscured by the grandstands though.

http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/webcam/superstar.html


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## prsboogie (Nov 18, 2016)

R


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## Madroch (Nov 19, 2016)

Got guns every 10 feet or so it seems ready for the temp drop


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 19, 2016)

Keeping an eye on things for a possible Tuesday or Wednesday 1st day out this year. I think there's a good chance they'll be top to bottom and great conditions just before Thanksgiving.


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## machski (Nov 19, 2016)

bdfreetuna said:


> Keeping an eye on things for a possible Tuesday or Wednesday 1st day out this year. I think there's a good chance they'll be top to bottom and great conditions just before Thanksgiving.


I think there's a good chance many others will be open and TTB then too.  Nice run by K none the less.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Nov 20, 2016)

Looks like it's snowing up there this morning on the cam!


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## ss20 (Nov 20, 2016)

I wonder how much of a shitshow it'll be up on the North Ridge till other areas open up.  I'd imagine today and tomorrow are gonna be packed.  Every powder hunter in the East is going to be confined to two trails.  It's still good if you can get it!  Really wish this cold came a week earlier! 

Thanksgiving day could be fun.


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## Smellytele (Nov 20, 2016)

ss20 said:


> I wonder how much of a shitshow it'll be up on the North Ridge till other areas open up.  I'd imagine today and tomorrow are gonna be packed.  Every powder hunter in the East is going to be confined to two trails.  It's still good if you can get it!  Really wish this cold came a week earlier!
> 
> Thanksgiving day could be fun.


 It was busy up there today with a bunch of ski race clubs there. I ended up skiing down great northern to bunny buster to the bottom. hit a few rocks on the cutback corner but that was it - better than the staircase


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## Tin (Nov 20, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> It was busy up there today with a bunch of ski race clubs there. I ended up skiing down great northern to bunny buster to the bottom. hit a few rocks on the cutback corner but that was it - better than the staircase



Nice!


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 21, 2016)

Today is operating day 28 for Killington.  They will have a full 30 day head start on everyone else in the Northeast when others open on Wednesday.  Hopefully they've made some money during this time!


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 21, 2016)

Jully said:


> Superstar cam seems to be working for me. Its heavily obscured by the grandstands though.
> 
> http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/webcam/superstar.html



Strange,even today your link works fine but when I look for that cam it doesn't even show up on the list.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 21, 2016)

Really weird,the cam just timed out so I went to bring it back up and there is no link to it on the cam list.


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## dlague (Nov 21, 2016)

All I see is the grand stands any how.

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## mbedle (Nov 21, 2016)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Today is operating day 28 for Killington.  They will have a full 30 day head start on everyone else in the Northeast when others open on Wednesday.  Hopefully they've made some money during this time!



I would venture to say that they absolutely did not make any money over the last 30 days, but always good marketing!


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## dlague (Nov 21, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I would venture to say that they absolutely did not make any money over the last 30 days, but always good marketing!


+1

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## cdskier (Nov 21, 2016)

mbedle said:


> I would venture to say that they absolutely did not make any money over the last 30 days, but always good marketing!



Perhaps a better way to say it would be "did they make more than they would have if they chose to not open at all"? While maybe there is a net loss right now, some of their expenses would have been incurred no matter whether they opened or not (i.e. snowmaking). And if they chose not to open and lost their "Beast" advantage, would that ultimately hurt their brand image and eventually overall season bottom line?


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## dlague (Nov 21, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Perhaps a better way to say it would be "did they make more than they would have if they chose to not open at all"? While maybe there is a net loss right now, some of their expenses would have been incurred no matter whether they opened or not (i.e. snowmaking). And if they chose not to open and lost their "Beast" advantage, would that ultimately hurt their brand image and eventually overall season bottom line?


Hence more of a marketing ploy than a revenue opportunity.

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## mbedle (Nov 21, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Perhaps a better way to say it would be "did they make more than they would have if they chose to not open at all"? While maybe there is a net loss right now, some of their expenses would have been incurred no matter whether they opened or not (i.e. snowmaking). And if they chose not to open and lost their "Beast" advantage, would that ultimately hurt their brand image and eventually overall season bottom line?



I'm still going to say no, even if you remove the snowmaking cost. As far as the marketing value, yes I would hope they have determined that by opening earlier, it increases their overall revenue during a given season. From an outside perceptive, I also think them opening early actually helps all ski resorts. It gets people talking and thinking about skiing either at Killington or another resort.


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## cdskier (Nov 21, 2016)

dlague said:


> Hence more of a marketing ploy than a revenue opportunity.



Not really...more of a marketing ploy that results in a net gain in revenue by the time everything is said and done (I would hope). You can't look at it purely as "how much did we make this month" to justify it. Does the resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy" offset the additional loss incurred from operating early season? I say it has to otherwise why do it? They are a business after all.


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## Smellytele (Nov 21, 2016)

cdskier said:


> Not really...more of a marketing ploy that results in a net gain in revenue by the time everything is said and done (I would hope). You can't look at it purely as "how much did we make this month" to justify it. Does the resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy" offset the additional loss incurred from operating early season? I say it has to otherwise why do it? They are a business after all.


How do you measure the "resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy""


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## da pimp (Nov 21, 2016)

I think everyone underestimates the quantity of window sales for early turns.  Especially this weekend, which saw a lot of race teams going up both days.  The % of racers to non-racers was the biggest so far this year, I would estimate 20% was race teams of all ages.  One estimate I heard of daily attendance this weekend was 1,500 per day.  No matter how you shake it out, there is a lot of cash exchanging hands at the ticket window and the two lodges that were open and serving.  Since that terrain needs to have a snowmaking investment anyways, whatever they pull in is gravy PLUS the marketing and public relations hype.  It certainly does matter when people in the flatlands hear that Killington was open for skiing on Oct. 25 and continued straight through to Thanksgiving.  Everyone sees the snow in their backyards today and feels that this season is the one to make the effort to get out there.  Where do you think they will be making plans for going - the beast with the most trails, most snowmaking, most options for the bucks you will be spending. Or the rest of the pack that gets barely open a month later.  A clear advantage over the competition, who has very similar weather conditions but chooses to lay low.


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## dlague (Nov 21, 2016)

da pimp said:


> I think everyone underestimates the quantity of window sales for early turns.  Especially this weekend, which saw a lot of race teams going up both days.  The % of racers to non-racers was the biggest so far this year, I would estimate 20% was race teams of all ages.  One estimate I heard of daily attendance this weekend was 1,500 per day.  No matter how you shake it out, there is a lot of cash exchanging hands at the ticket window and the two lodges that were open and serving.  Since that terrain needs to have a snowmaking investment anyways, whatever they pull in is gravy PLUS the marketing and public relations hype.  It certainly does matter when people in the flatlands hear that Killington was open for skiing on Oct. 25 and continued straight through to Thanksgiving.  Everyone sees the snow in their backyards today and feels that this season is the one to make the effort to get out there.  Where do you think they will be making plans for going - the beast with the most trails, most snowmaking, most options for the bucks you will be spending. Or the rest of the pack that gets barely open a month later.  A clear advantage over the competition, who has very similar weather conditions but chooses to lay low.


This is true Loveland makes a lot on race teams from day one, where as I do not recall race teams at Killington when just North Ridge was open.  Then again I think this is one of the longest periods where terrain was not expanded past North Ridge IIRC.


cdskier said:


> Not really...more of a marketing ploy that results in a net gain in revenue by the time everything is said and done (I would hope). You can't look at it purely as "how much did we make this month" to justify it. Does the resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy" offset the additional loss incurred from operating early season? I say it has to otherwise why do it? They are a business after all.


Then all marketing is revenue generation.  Marketing is designed in  nature to create awareness.  Measuring how much revenue is gained by any marketing program or ploy is very difficult.  If they would have opened two weeks later the effect would be the same.

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## 180 (Nov 21, 2016)

KMS had 70 in the race camps this weekend.


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## cdskier (Nov 21, 2016)

dlague said:


> Then all marketing is revenue generation.  Marketing is designed in  nature to create awareness.  Measuring how much revenue is gained by any marketing program or ploy is very difficult.  If they would have opened two weeks later the effect would be the same.



Fair point about marketing in general. I suppose I was thinking in my head as comparing it more to a marketing gimmick like turning on the guns for a couple hours to say "look, we made snow!".

Weren't there a few years that K didn't seem to make a legitimate push for opening as early as possible? And weren't there complaints from pass holders? If so, there could have been a legitimately visible drop off in pass sales as a result. Would opening 2 weeks later this year have made a difference? Tough to say, but I think if there were cold temps and they didn't "try" to open it would have been perceived negatively by some of the K die-hards and could ultimately have hurt their bottom line in the long run. I'd like to think that K management isn't given free reign to do whatever they want with no regards for financial implications. If they believe their "longest season in the east" strategy is what results in the greatest net profit, then they've decided that opening as early as realistically possible is a good ROI and a core part of that strategy.


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## Smellytele (Nov 21, 2016)

da pimp said:


> I think everyone underestimates the quantity of window sales for early turns.  Especially this weekend, which saw a lot of race teams going up both days.  The % of racers to non-racers was the biggest so far this year, I would estimate 20% was race teams of all ages.  One estimate I heard of daily attendance this weekend was 1,500 per day.  No matter how you shake it out, there is a lot of cash exchanging hands at the ticket window and the two lodges that were open and serving.  Since that terrain needs to have a snowmaking investment anyways, whatever they pull in is gravy PLUS the marketing and public relations hype.  It certainly does matter when people in the flatlands hear that Killington was open for skiing on Oct. 25 and continued straight through to Thanksgiving.  Everyone sees the snow in their backyards today and feels that this season is the one to make the effort to get out there.  Where do you think they will be making plans for going - the beast with the most trails, most snowmaking, most options for the bucks you will be spending. Or the rest of the pack that gets barely open a month later.  A clear advantage over the competition, who has very similar weather conditions but chooses to lay low.






There was some sort of racing clinic by some group as well. Can't remember the name but the people running it had orange lettering on their jacks. There were race teams from Thunder ridge, tomahawk and other NY and CT ski areas. they were not very high end though and seemed low skilled. Also saw some racers from Bates college.
Some of the drills they were doing were not very conducive to having only 2 trails open. The follow the leader snaking down the trail for one.


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## da pimp (Nov 21, 2016)

The difference maker for this winter startup is that Killington opened in October, stayed open, had two 10" snowfalls to date, and no one else in New England is operating.  The October and continuous operation factoids are what generates the buzz around skiers who know, and all the potential customers who are talking about this in their ski clubs, at places of work, or bars/restaurants.  It makes the positive spin that ends up as future sales later in the season.

I would guarantee that if Killington waited until now to open, the buzz around their New England customer base would be a "wait and see" mindset.  After such a dismal winter, people will move towards whatever is out there to grab on to.  You can keep the lights off and let your customer base lean towards spending their money on other activities, or you can pump up the volume, turn on the lights and attract customers during this critical period when people are making plans or gathering momentum with friends & family to make winter plans.

If you wait a few weeks or a month, it just sucks more air out of your balloon and you have to spend more time & effort just to catch up, which you will never do.

Based on Killington hype released for Thanksgiving, it looks like there will be sliding in the upper Ridge Run area, Snowdon Mountain with a couple of choices, Ram's Head for families/beginners, and maybe Snowshed for the Grand Summit people to ski home.  And I saw the snowmakers doing function checks on pipes & hoses for Lower East Fall, and the Canyon Quad was spinning and being cleaned off. They are making something attractive for every level and type of customer. 

Once the World Cup leaves next week, there will be a lot of terrain and facilities open for the beginning of December.  Way ahead of everyone else.  Early season efforts and dollars spent pays off big time for all the departments now and later.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 23, 2016)

- The Beast is now open top to bottom.


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## Smellytele (Nov 23, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> - The Beast is now open top to bottom.



And the price is now up to $81 from 55


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## cdskier (Nov 23, 2016)

Smellytele said:


> And the price is now up to $81 from 55



I think most early season prices in general are ridiculous...but perhaps it is a "supply and demand" type of thing or done more to try to help prevent the areas from getting too crowded if the prices were set too low.


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## mriceyman (Nov 23, 2016)

cdskier said:


> I think most early season prices in general are ridiculous...but perhaps it is a "supply and demand" type of thing or done more to try to help prevent the areas from getting too crowded if the prices were set too low.



And a 100$ for a regular day pass isn't ridiculous. Its the sport we love but thankfully most resorts dont make it too hard to save a couple bucks on a ticket


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## cdskier (Nov 23, 2016)

mriceyman said:


> And a 100$ for a regular day pass isn't ridiculous. Its the sport we love but thankfully most resorts dont make it too hard to save a couple bucks on a ticket



Oh it absolutely is and I've made numerous posts on that topic before about how I think those high prices are hurting the potential for newcomers and growth in the sport.


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## catsup948 (Nov 23, 2016)

I probably know the answer to this but will Killington be super crowded on Friday?

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## andrec10 (Nov 23, 2016)

catsup948 said:


> I probably know the answer to this but will Killington be super crowded on Friday?
> 
> Sent from my VS985 4G using AlpineZone mobile app



Probably since I will be there. Human slalom time! Though a lot of other places open Friday, so lets cross our fingers!


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## dlague (Nov 23, 2016)

catsup948 said:


> I probably know the answer to this but will Killington be super crowded on Friday?
> 
> Sent from my VS985 4G using AlpineZone mobile app


We went one time on Friday after Thanksgiving and never did it again.

NORTH Ridge line was fairly long so we skied to the Gondola on every run but the bottom part of Bunny Buster was a choke point.  With beginners mixed with advanced skiers it was a bit chaotic.  That section started getting bumped out and inexperienced skiers and snowboards were falling everywhere.

 Our original thinking was that it was  Black Friday but that had little impact on who was there.  For what was open and in this case what will be open, it will get crowded for sure.

For the $'s there are better options, unless you have a seasons pass at K.  Depends where you live too.

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## sugarbushskier (Nov 23, 2016)

Simple answer...hell yes!!  It's November w limited decent conditions. Pateince


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## bdfreetuna (Nov 23, 2016)

catsup948 said:


> I probably know the answer to this but will Killington be super crowded on Friday?
> 
> Sent from my VS985 4G using AlpineZone mobile app



I am considering going there Sunday, hopefully enough people are either watching the race or have cleared out for the weekend by then. Would not even consider Friday or Saturday and will only consider Sunday based on terrain expansion.


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