# Questions re: Condo Ownership



## spring_mountain_high (Aug 17, 2015)

Seems most folks here do not own, but I thought there might be a few...

If you could go back and make the decision to buy or not to buy again, what would you choose to do and why?

Do you guys rent out your places?  Ski-on/off vs near/around the base?


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## cdskier (Aug 17, 2015)

Bought a condo 4 years ago at Sugarbush and it was the hands down best decision I ever made. I live in NJ, but still make the 5 hour drive up to Sugarbush nearly every single weekend from January to late April. In December I usually have time off from work to use up, so I'll do some mid-week skiing and then get holiday related stuff done on the weekends back home in NJ.

My condo is near the base (on the free shuttle route). I technically can ski back to it if I don't mind a long flat traverse, but I find it easier to just take the shuttle back most of the time.

As for renting, the first year I had my condo I had it available for renting through an agency. Decided it just wasn't worth it for how much they take for their share plus all the cleaning and linen fees, etc. I'd rather have the flexibility to go up whenever I want at the last minute and not need to worry about leaving my condo a certain way in case someone wants to rent it. I do "rent" it to some family the first half of President's week. I trust them though so I don't need to worry about leaving personal stuff out, etc and I don't have to deal with an agency.


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## ScottySkis (Aug 17, 2015)

Buy one in Denver I go in with you lol.


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## SkiFanE (Aug 17, 2015)

Although we have a small place in a ski town, the decision to buy or not is the same. For us, family of 5 - it was life changing. Skiing goes from being an activity to a lifestyle once you and kids get 50+ days in. First year or two we did random rentals theu agency - but then one bad renter and decided not worth it, then kids were in weekend programs and then we committed 100% . Our purchase wasn't an investment, it won't grow like the Burbs, but that's fine, we didn't go in with that as a requirement.


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## joshua segal (Aug 17, 2015)

For me, having a slopeside changes the sport.  Mine is ski-on/ski-off.  When I get up, I don't have to shovel snow, worry if my car will start or the condition of the roads.  I don't have to deal with base lodges or public rest rooms.  If my clothes or gloves get wet, I go in and change, while I toss the wet stuff in the drier.  Buying this condo was one of the best things I've done skiing-wise.


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## laxski (Aug 17, 2015)

We have owned a condo at Mt Snow for 15 years it has a shuttle over to the mountain and a Ski-home trail which our place is located on.No regret at all, had a run of 10 years averaging 25 days a year. We rented every year for a few weekends clearing around 3 grand to help pay the bills.Both  girls are college athletes so we rent it for the season last year and that went well, probably will rent it for season again this year to help with college cost.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 17, 2015)

spring_mountain_high said:


> *If you could go back and make the decision to buy or not to buy again, what would you choose to do and why?*



If you're looking for an honest poll/assessment, know that the odds are people who have made that significant and substantial purchase decision, are not going to tell you he/she did the wrong thing, even if they know it to be true.  Buyer/consumer psychology.


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## spring_mountain_high (Aug 17, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> If you're looking for an honest poll/assessment, know that the odds are people who have made that significant and substantial purchase decision, are not going to tell you he/she did the wrong thing, even if they know it to be true.  Buyer/consumer psychology.



oh ok... thanks, sigmund 

i wouldn't look at it as an investment, but if rent could help cover the cost that would be a game changer


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## steamboat1 (Aug 17, 2015)

I'm in a unique situation being I ski weekdays for the most part. I'd never consider buying. Have a place pretty much to myself most of the time. Housing costs including everything is well under a grand per year & I ski roughly 40 days. It is 20 minutes to the nearest mountain though, not ski in ski out.


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## Vortex (Aug 18, 2015)

I have had an off mountain town house, on Mountain Condo and now a house.  If you are going to buy a condo with the need to rent it to support it,  I would suggest you pass.  If you want to occasionally  rent it, go for it, if you understand what you are in for.  Renting means work.   If you have kids get close to the mountain or on mountain. Make sure they have easy access to a friend network.  Make sure they want to come as much as you want to.   Things to look for is the reserves in the association, how many delinquent owners in the association.  I suggest renting for a year before buying.  You find out the real story that way.   I agree with Skifane. Its a lifestyle change, and for the better.  We stopped taking travel vacations. We go to the mountains now.  Its a great step to make, just take your time.  Good Deals pop up, word of mouth equals good deals if you do your research.  If you have not done research, you will regret it.  Take your time, but be ready to jump if you need to.  Walk in with a pre qualification for a Mortgage and show you are organized.  Sellers like to see you are a safe choice as a buyer.  Owning a house most likely will increase in value. A Condo is not always as safe.  When you are young the activity of a condo might be fine.  As I got older.  l like to not have to hear anyone but me. Never going back to a Condo again.


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## Vortex (Aug 18, 2015)

Follow up.  The tax benefits are real.  I have found the value of my town house and House track ahead of my 401k.  Good luck.


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## NESkibum (Aug 18, 2015)

I have been a seasonal renter for the last 4 years and have found it to be great. We have a place directly across from the mountain on the direct shuttle route and it works out perfectly for our family. Based on the price of the condos in the complex it would cost 3X to own what we pay for the season which is 6 months. Based on the cost savings differential seasonal renting has worked out great for us.


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## drjeff (Aug 18, 2015)

If you're looking to buy for a lifestyle change, and are aware that just like primary home ownership has it's unexpected costs that you WILL incur over time, and enjoy the area in which you're looking to buy, then in my experience in 8 years of owning at Mount Snow, it's worth every penny.

If you're looking to buy and have your property function as not just a second home, but also as an investment where you're annual rental income will at least cover your yearly expenses, then chances are that you'll end up disappointed, especially if you want to use your place on typically anything other than off peak weekends and/or weeks during the ski season.

When my wife and I bought our condo at Mount Snow, it had a stable history of an older couple from Florida who rented it every summer.  We chose not to rent it for the 1st summer, more as a way to "try out" the area during the summer, a time when we historically had spent much time up in Southern VT.  We found that we liked the area just as much during the summer as during the winter and made the choice not to put our place into the rental pool (the complex that my place is in has it's own on site rental office).  When we took that experience, plus had heard of some issues friends with places had had with some renters in the past and also being honest with ourselves and realizing that if we wanted to make it "our" place that the amount of personalizing that we'd want to do with it would make it very challenging to regularly remove a bunch of our personal things and place them into the locked "owner's closet" when it would of been rented out, made the decision to not put our unit into the rental pool, and easy choice for us.  We haven't regretted either the purchase or the choice not to rent it at all.

FYI - one of the things that makes our place for us "easy" is that the complex were in has association fees that really do take care of everything on the outside of the place (snow removal, firewood stocking, painting, the roof, exterior windows, lawn mowing, landscaping) as well as having full time, year round staff to handle most type of issues from needing doors replaced to window replacement, to minor plumbing and electrical issues that will take care of things (for a fee) with reliable results that our owners association stands behind.  It really does allow me to when I leave my place to just turn down the thermostats, turn off the main water supply, lock the doors and not worry about it while I'm not there.  That is a very worthy thing for my personal sanity!!


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## fbrissette (Aug 18, 2015)

spring_mountain_high said:


> oh ok... thanks, sigmund
> 
> i wouldn't look at it as an investment,



For me, it was definitely a lifestyle decision.  Unless you own a company or rent it on key holidays (in which case you have to empty your condo every time), it is definitely NOT an investment.

However, you get to ski a lot, if conditions are shitty you come back early or get the backcountry/slackcountry gear and go look for hidden stashes.

I would highly recommend ski in ski out (get a smaller ski in ski out place instead of a larger place away).  No driving in the morning, no dragging boots in the parking lot, no lunch or shitty cafeteria food, you can lounge in your sofa during lunch while your wet gear is in the dryer and ski boots on the dryguy.   If someone is tired, nobody has to wait in the cafeteria.

BG the psychologist is entirely correct in that ski condo buyers who regret their purchase will usually sell quietly and won't talk about it.  Been at Jay for 6 years and on the condo board for 4, and I have yet to meet an owner who regrets his decision.  Most sales are by owners whose kids have grown up.   

Personally, I would sell my Montreal home and rent before I'd get rid of my ski condo.   It may be a different story ten years from now when my son is older and I get closer to retirement, but all those years skiing as a family (instead of freezing my butt in a hockey arena) will be with me forever.


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## fbrissette (Aug 18, 2015)

drjeff said:


> I...that if we wanted to make it "our" place that the amount of personalizing that we'd want to do with it would make it very challenging to regularly remove a bunch of our personal things and place them into the locked "owner's closet" when it would of been rented out, made the decision to not put our unit into the rental pool, and easy choice for us.  We haven't regretted either the purchase or the choice not to rent it at all.



Same story on our side.  We have so much outdoor gear stashed in the condo that emptying it for rental is simply not possible anymore.



drjeff said:


> FYI - one of the things that makes our place for us "easy" is that the complex were in has association fees that really do take care of everything on the outside of the place (snow removal, firewood stocking, painting, the roof, exterior windows, lawn mowing, landscaping) as well as having full time, year round staff to handle most type of issues from needing doors replaced to window replacement, to minor plumbing and electrical issues that will take care of things (for a fee) with reliable results that our owners association stands behind.  It really does allow me to when I leave my place to just turn down the thermostats, turn off the main water supply, lock the doors and not worry about it while I'm not there.  That is a very worthy thing for my personal sanity!!



+1.  Taking care of one home is more than enough.


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## RustyGroomer (Aug 18, 2015)

Not certain mine was the best decision, but if I may answer in a few months after my walk to the lift through 20" it will be a resounding yes.  I guess what I'm saying is times it's worth it & times it's not.  

Like Josh said.  To not have to shovel & to be able to click into my skis out my door are pretty priceless for a skier.  Hell, I take a few runs & ski home for bacon.  

By far the best benefit.  Everyone can come & go as they please. Cars stay parked.


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## Whitey (Aug 18, 2015)

I am surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet.  Maybe it’s just me and my family.  We ski enough that committing to one mountain and getting seasons passes and either renting or buying a condo (or house) would probably make financial sense for us. But the one thing that’s stopped us is that we really enjoy skiing all over the northeast and going to different mountains. It also has the added benefits that if during the season the snow sucks in one area like southern VT but is OK in another area, like northern Maine – then we can just go where the snow is the best.    

We have a lot of friends who have places and have made commitments to a single mountain.  But the only time we see them/ski with them is when we go to ski their home mountain.  Whenever we ping them with ideas like “we’ve got a house for a week up at Saddleback, why don’t you come and ski/stay with us” they usually don’t go because they have already sunk a lot of $ into season passes and lodging at their home mountain. It’s hard to go and spend $500/day (or more) on lift tickets at another mountain when you’ve already sunk a several thousand on season passes & lodging at your home mountain.    

So for us, we’ve stayed away from it.  I’ve been able to take my sons to just about every major ski area in the northeast over the last several years because of that.  We’ve really enjoyed going different places and chasing “the good snow”.     We will start doing some western ski trips soon too , so that competes with the concept of locking into 1 mountain as well.


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## VTKilarney (Aug 18, 2015)

I live in the mountains, but I've looked at beach houses.  It is a lifestyle choice.  Period.  There are much better investments out there.  

I've run the numbers and I keep realIzing how much cheaper it is to rent.  I'm sure that a ski condo is similar.  

The other major drawback for me is that the people I know who own beach houses don't take any other sort of vacation.  I like variety.


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> I am surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet.  Maybe it’s just me and my family.  We ski enough that committing to one mountain and getting seasons passes and either renting or buying a condo (or house) would probably make financial sense for us. But the one thing that’s stopped us is that we really enjoy skiing all over the northeast and going to different mountains. It also has the added benefits that if during the season the snow sucks in one area like southern VT but is OK in another area, like northern Maine – then we can just go where the snow is the best.
> 
> We have a lot of friends who have places and have made commitments to a single mountain.  But the only time we see them/ski with them is when we go to ski their home mountain.  Whenever we ping them with ideas like “we’ve got a house for a week up at Saddleback, why don’t you come and ski/stay with us” they usually don’t go because they have already sunk a lot of $ into season passes and lodging at their home mountain. It’s hard to go and spend $500/day (or more) on lift tickets at another mountain when you’ve already sunk a several thousand on season passes & lodging at your home mountain.
> 
> So for us, we’ve stayed away from it.  I’ve been able to take my sons to just about every major ski area in the northeast over the last several years because of that.  We’ve really enjoyed going different places and chasing “the good snow”.     We will start doing some western ski trips soon too , so that competes with the concept of locking into 1 mountain as well.



I thought about this as well. I love to ski different at mountains. When we were looking at condos killington was my first choice for a few reasons. First living on LI I didn't want more then a 5 hr drive one way. The second was killingtons location. 30 min to Okemo...1 hr to Sugarbush and MRG....1 hr to Magic, Stratton and Bromley. 1.5 hrs to Stowe. To me those are all easy day trips.

 This will be our second season with the condo and loving it. Also using it way more in the summer then anticipated. We also decided not to rent for a few reasons.  The main reason was that we wanted to skiing weekends and holidays and you can't do that if renting to help cover bills. The other was we wanted to personalize the condo and that doesn't work with renters.


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## cdskier (Aug 18, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I love in the mountains, but I've looked at beach houses.  It is a lifestyle choice.  Period.  There are much better investments out there.
> 
> I've run the numbers and I keep realIng how much cheaper it is to rent.  I'm sure that a ski condo is similar.
> 
> ...



In terms of numbers, once I pay off my mortgage the cost of the condo per year would be almost identical to what it would cost me for a seasonal rental just for the winter in my same complex. So that is pretty much a wash. And I have the added benefit of being able to use it all year round if I choose. And I can really customize it and make it "my own." And I do also have equity with owning my condo. Even if the market goes down, eventually if I ever chose to sell it I would still get "something" back.  Maybe it wouldn't be what I paid for it, but as far as I'm concerned that wouldn't be a loss since I would have had the opportunity to use it for years. So for me owning over renting just makes sense.

Also, in terms of variety, a mountain house/condo can be used all year round for a wide range of activites. A beach house not quite so much


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## fbrissette (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> Whenever we ping them with ideas like “we’ve got a house for a week up at Saddleback, why don’t you come and ski/stay with us” they usually don’t go because they have already sunk a lot of $ into season passes and lodging at their home mountain. It’s hard to go and spend $500/day (or more) on lift tickets at another mountain when you’ve already sunk a several thousand on season passes & lodging at your home mountain.



For us, the main reason for not going somewhere else is that it's just too much trouble.   We leave for the condo wearing our city clothes.  To go skiing somewhere we need to collect skis, gear, pack everything and make sure we don't forget anything.  Owning a ski condo makes things real simple.  It's hard to go back to the drive and ski way of skiing.



Whitey said:


> So for us, we’ve stayed away from it. I’ve been able to take my sons to just about every major ski area in the northeast over the last several years because of that. We’ve really enjoyed going different places and chasing “the good snow”. We will start doing some western ski trips soon too , so that competes with the concept of locking into 1 mountain as well.



Good points.  OTOH, knowing a mountain inside out, all of the secret stashes, all good rocks to jump also has its benefits.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2015)

Yeah, never understood the whole beach house thing unless it's from Virginia on South and can be used more than 3-4 months.  I live 15 minutes from the NH coast.  Staggering amount of vacant homes for 7-8 months of the year.  Kind of nice to walk out there in winter when you have the place to yourself compared to how crazy it gets during summer.  There was 70K+ people on Hampton Beach this Sunday


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## cdskier (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> I am surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet.  Maybe it’s just me and my family.  We ski enough that committing to one mountain and getting seasons passes and either renting or buying a condo (or house) would probably make financial sense for us. But the one thing that’s stopped us is that we really enjoy skiing all over the northeast and going to different mountains. It also has the added benefits that if during the season the snow sucks in one area like southern VT but is OK in another area, like northern Maine – then we can just go where the snow is the best.



I felt that way before I bought my condo. I always told people "I like going to different places" and never imagined myself being locked into one mountain. But if you find a place you really love, then I think giving up that variety is worth it. Every once in a while I think it would be nice to go somewhere else, but overall I'm at my favorite resort and love skiing there. It is nice to finally have a mountain to call "home". For me it just happened to be a unique opportunity that came up at the right time.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 18, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> I thought about this as well. I love to ski different at mountains. When we were looking at condos killington was my first choice for a few reasons. First living on LI I didn't want more then a 5 hr drive one way. The second was killingtons location. 30 min to Okemo...1 hr to Sugarbush and MRG....1 hr to Magic, Stratton and Bromley. 1.5 hrs to Stowe. To me those are all easy day trips.


Same reason I like the location of our ski club lodge.


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## slatham (Aug 18, 2015)

Couple points to add.

Better to buy when the kids are young and basically go where you go. Let them make mountain connections. When they get older (high school) activities at home start to conflict. Unless the kids are racers or blindly dedicated to skiing (ALL of them....)

How much off season use? The fact that we love VT in the summer and fall and get up there a decent amount made a huge difference.

How much does skiing a the home mountain all the time sound to you? Or buying day tickets to other areas when you already have a pass at the home mountain? So far (2 seasons renting, 2 owning) using the home mountain the majority of the time (even though it is the  relatively small Bromley) and buying occasional tickets at Stratton, Mt Snow, Sugarbush and Magic (mostly Magic) has worked for us. But it might not for you.

If you have small kids or kids who may not go out when you do (first tracks at 10 below) or come in when you do (4pm at 10 below) make sure you're on Mountain (or at least on a shuttle)! I have logged so much awesome skiing while letting the rest of the family come and go as they like since we are ski in/short walk out.

Finally, my wife and I agreed up front to no renting (unless finances deteriorate) and no lending (slippery slope on where to draw the line etc. etc.). We were also fairly aggressive in letting friends and family know of this policy, while at the same time welcoming them to join us (Which they have done less than I would have expected).

So far so good. Just wish I could be there more often - oh, yeah, almost forgot - you may find yourself day dreaming ALOT about being at your ski home while you are at work!!!! Be forewarned!!!


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## gmcunni (Aug 18, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> There was 70K+ people on Hampton Beach this Sunday


 saw pics on news, insane!


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## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> saw pics on news, insane!



People must really like crowds.  I know a spot ten miles up the coast where you could have fifty feet of beach to yourself and free parking.   No waves at the secret spot, but everything else is better.


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## drjeff (Aug 18, 2015)

slatham said:


> Couple points to add.
> 
> Better to buy when the kids are young and basically go where you go. Let them make mountain connections. When they get older (high school) activities at home start to conflict. Unless the kids are racers or blindly dedicated to skiing (ALL of them....)
> 
> ...



With my kids (they'll be 12 and 10 this ski season and we bought when they were 4 and 2) the one interesting thing that my wife and I have discovered the last couple of seasons as they (the kids) have gone through the ski school programs at Mount Snow and on to the race team at Mount Snow is that just like in our pre-kids, pre-owning a condo days where we skied at a bunch of different areas a season, (we rarely skied anywhere but Mount Snow for a number of years when the kids were in season long ski programs at Mount Snow) is that with racing, we're once again skiing at a number of ski areas where my kids have races at, once again.  Last year, their racing schedule had them at Mount Snow, The Hermitage Club, Stratton, Bromley, Magic and Willard Mountain in New York State for races, and add in a couple of end of the season days at Killington and Okemo and one evening session at Berkshire East and even though I was sleeping at Mount Snow, I ended up once again skiing a number of places.

Additionally, when you buy at a ski area, especially if you have kids in the kids ski programs there, you tend to quickly meet a number of like minded, ski addicted families who are there week in and week out doing the same thing that you are (and you don't have to explain your ski addicted life style to them either!  ), and you develop a network of friends up where you own too.  This has probably been the biggest and best surprise that we discovered after we bought.

Lastly, when you own at one place, especially if you're either not renting at all, or at least not during the known time frame since you last were at your place,  it is so nice to just be able to leave your primary residence with not much more than what you're wearing that day, and just go right to your place with basically not having to unload anything more from your car than just some groceries.  It really is simply you just going home


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## gmcunni (Aug 18, 2015)

too late in life for me to pursue this but i think about it a lot.

the whole "1 mountain" thing keeps popping in my head.  but what i then think about is the friends you make who you hang out with.  i skied a lot(for me) at Mount Snow this past season.  not the largest mountain but hardly a small one.  I never got bored skiing the same trails each time because i skied with friends. regardless of the terrain it was just fun.   also i think of an area like MRV.  3 mountains (2 connected) close to each other would have to offer reasonable diversity even for the shortest attention spans.  Sugarbush South and North ski so differently even if i stayed just there i don't think i could ever be bored.


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## ThinkSnow (Aug 18, 2015)

slatham said:


> no lending (slippery slope on where to draw the line etc. etc.). We were also fairly aggressive in letting friends and family know of this policy, while at the same time welcoming them to join us (Which they have done less than I would have expected).



How did you achieve this?


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## slatham (Aug 18, 2015)

ThinkSnow, not sure if you mean: how did I get the wife to agree (or vice versa)? We simply have the same view. 

Or how did we actually pull it off with friends and family? Emphatically stating our policy from the very beginning was a big help as it avoided the tough discussion when someone outright asks (or begs and pleads). Its been interesting because our close friends and family have respected the decision and never asked. Its been the peripheral friends who have "softly" inquired, and were easy to rebuff.


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## cdskier (Aug 18, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> also i think of an area like MRV.  3 mountains (2 connected) close to each other would have to offer reasonable diversity even for the shortest attention spans.  Sugarbush South and North ski so differently even if i stayed just there i don't think i could ever be bored.



Had my condo in the MRV 4 years now and still haven't made it to MRG. I've always kind of felt like you have to go there midweek to get the maximum enjoyment out of it. Maybe I'm wrong though, but I would like to try to get there this year.

And yea, just SB South vs North alone is a tremendous amount of variety that I can't see getting bored skiing (plus throw in all the seemingly endless woods that I've just started to explore the past couple years).


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## Whitey (Aug 18, 2015)

Lastly, when you own at one place, especially if you're either not renting at all, or at least not during the known time frame since you last were at your place,  it is so nice to just be able to leave your primary residence with not much more than what you're wearing that day, and just go right to your place with basically not having to unload anything more from your car than just some groceries.  It really is simply you just going home[/QUOTE]

I thought this was a site for hardcore skiers.  Recurring theme – “waahhh, I don’t like having to pack, so I lock into one mountain & buy a condo so I can leave my stuff there”.    

Your cushy lives in your condos have left you out of practice and behind the times.  A couple of points: Unless there’s a lot more 1 percenters here than I thought, most of us wouldn’t be able to afford a ski in/ski out on mountain type of place anyway.  Many have referenced that they are “on the shuttle route” or nearby to a mountain.  If that’s the case – you are packing it in anyway.  2[SUP]nd[/SUP] point – as has been stated in other threads, ski boot backpacks are one of the great recent ski inventions.  For us, we not only pack our boots, googles, gloves in there but we also put our long underwear, ski pants, etc.  in.  Basically everything but the ski jacket.  We just get changed in the lodge when we get there.  In the AM, we just get up, throw the boot backpacks in the back, skis & poles in the Thule, and go in our street clothes.   We can be out the door in 10-15 min after the alarm goes off.  True even if we are staying overnight. Only difference is the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] bag (that stays in the car) that has some xtra clothes for the overnight.  The trick is to wash & repack your ski stuff after you return from your ski trip so that it’s ready to go for the next one.  

I’ve spent the last 10 yrs schelping me, 2 boys (frequently a couple of their friends too), and sometimes the wife to different mountains.  Never had any problem getting gear to any mountain.  I usually pack a cooler with lunch, snacks, & drinks too.  I’ve also found that a lot of mountains have done a pretty good job with their “drop off” areas & keep them moving/clear.  Most times I am just rolling up, dumping kids/skis/bags and then I just park & walk up.  Pick up the skis and boot pack on the way by and meet the family in the lodge.  That’s “too hard”?

Added bonus too is that at the end of the day when all the rest of you are sweating your asses off in the bar because  you are still in your long underwear and ski pants (because you can’t take that stuff off until you get home) – my stuff is back in the ski boot backpack and I’m in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt.  I hate being in long underwear & ski pants indoors.


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## Domeskier (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> I thought this was a site for hardcore skiers.  Recurring theme – “waahhh, I don’t like having to pack, so I lock into one mountain & buy a condo so I can leave my stuff there”.



I'm not sure what constitutes a hardcore skier, but it's probably not the people who cannot ski the same mountain more than twice without getting bored, either...


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## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2015)

The biggest appeal for me in wanting to own property near a ski area someday is the short commute to the hill.  I travel A LOT for work.  40K+ miles on my car this past year.  So, the thought of getting up and spending 2+ hours in my car again on Saturday morning is never appealing.  I do it, but someday I hope I don't have to.


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## slatham (Aug 18, 2015)

Well lets be clear that being able to own a condo on any ski mountain is a luxury, one for which I am very grateful I can afford. As far the 1%-er comment, I am not sure about other mountains, but Bromley has condo's that are relatively reasonable. Certainly not the 1% club, for which I think more of Hermitage or Stratton.....

Also, I think a lot of the comments - and my feelings - on the luxury of not schlepping your stuff to the mountain every weekend were more of an added benefit, not a motivation. Even with a home mountain I still day trip to other areas, though admittedly that's easier from Bromley than from Long Island. 

But again, I am lucky and grateful, and commented here to help someone else who is contemplating a purchase.


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## Whitey (Aug 18, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> I'm not sure what constitutes a hardcore skier, but it's probably not the people who cannot ski the same mountain more than twice without getting bored, either...



Knew I'd strike a nerve with that comment (& the "1 percenter" comment too).    You guys are too easy. . .


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> Knew I'd strike a nerve with that comment (& the "1 percenter" comment too).    You guys are too easy. . .



Congratulations


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## Vortex (Aug 18, 2015)

If you go on a Disney type vacation yearly you probably can afford a seasonal rental, or a ski Condo if you have reasonable expectations. You don't have to be rich, more like frugal.

Those people who you think are sweaty in the bar have ski lockers if they are not ski on ski off.


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## ThinkSnow (Aug 18, 2015)

Bob R said:


> Those people who you think are sweaty in the bar have ski lockers if they are not ski on ski off.



Or maybe they just put extra clothes in their boot bag?


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## Vortex (Aug 18, 2015)

ThinkSnow said:


> Or maybe they just put extra clothes in their boot bag?



Brilliant,


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## Whitey (Aug 18, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> Congratulations



Wow, for a bunch of people who will climb a mountain in minus 20 degree weather and ski it – you get all butthurt awfully easily. . . 

(yes, I am still trolling this thread)


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> Wow, for a bunch of people who will climb a mountain in minus 20 degree weather and ski it – you get all butthurt awfully easily. . .
> 
> (yes, I am still trolling this thread)



Trolling is not allowed on AZ...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't read the rules.


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## Whitey (Aug 18, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> Trolling is not allowed on AZ...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't read the rules.



I guess having a sense of humor is too.   

Lighten up Francis.     It's too nice out to be this uptight.


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## cdskier (Aug 18, 2015)

slatham said:


> Well lets be clear that being able to own a condo on any ski mountain is a luxury, one for which I am very grateful I can afford. As far the 1%-er comment, I am not sure about other mountains, but Bromley has condo's that are relatively reasonable. Certainly not the 1% club, for which I think more of Hermitage or Stratton.....



Agreed. I am very, very far from a 1%-er. Sugarbush has very reasonable condos too (if you stay away from the brand new ridiculous stuff).


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## xwhaler (Aug 18, 2015)

If/when I ever get a 2nd home in ski country it will definitely be in a place that can be used 4 seasons for boating/hiking/golf. 
If I was just looking to do a winter place I would do seasonal rentals (have done this once and it works out very nice)


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## steamboat1 (Aug 18, 2015)

cdskier said:


> Agreed. I am very, very far from a 1%-er. Sugarbush has very reasonable condos too (if you stay away from the brand new ridiculous stuff).


Time to buy was right before ASC took over. They were practically giving condos away because people thought the place was closing. Still kick myself in the ass for not buying at that time. Could've bought a 2br ski in/ski out for $10k


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## Whitey (Aug 18, 2015)

cdskier said:


> Agreed. I am very, very far from a 1%-er. Sugarbush has very reasonable condos too (if you stay away from the brand new ridiculous stuff).




You guys are missing my point.   Many in this thread were citing "not having to pack gear" as one of the advantages of condo ownership.   My point was that unless you are in on-mountain lodging (which many said they weren't) then you are still having to drag your gear to the mountain on most days.    And if you do travel to other mountains than your home mountain - you're dragging your gear there just like me.    My secondary point was that I thought some were overstating the difficulty of bringing gear to the mountain.    

Of course, ski lockers solve that problem too.  

Don't get my comments wrong.  I totally get the "ski lifestyle" that many have referenced that comes with ownership & commitment to one area.   For me, I just decided that I'd rather try all the mountains in the northeast, be able to follow the snow, and spending the money on hotel rooms or renting a house/condo for the week.    Doesn't make it any more right or wrong than those who chose to buy, just my preference.


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## SkiFanE (Aug 18, 2015)

We were smart and bought our first home in 1993 - the absolute bottom of the recession, as soon as we had a down payment. So the equity we quickly gained, and then rolled into a bigger home (6 mos before a huge jump in prices)...we could take a small amount out for ski house down payment.  Out sq footage of our 2 combined homes is less then many peoples one home. We live in small places. Smart, frugal but not 1%.  We plan on keeping our ski house and moving there for retirement (prop taxes are less than $1600/yr), and at a lake for summer months. It was not in our original plan, but we love the area so much, it makes perfect sense.  Plus when kids come with the hopeful grands, they'll be in a place with tons of things to do.We both work FT, I can say with 100% certainty that we wouldn't even get half the days on skis as  we do now.  It's a breeze to hit the road Friday after dinner - generally just a cooler and the clothes we may have brought home to wash from last weekend. Kids know the drill. I haven't gotten bored with one mountain.  SR. is big and day to day varies. Best part is we are there no matter what - not dependent on weather forecasts. We are never disappointed. We haulto mt every day - and its. It's not a big deal at all. Everyone has their boot bag. Occasionally something is forgotten. But I cant recall one day where I sat in my sweaty ski pants regretting my decision lol.


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## SkiFanE (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> You guys are missing my point.   Many in this thread were citing "not having to pack gear" as one of the advantages of condo ownership.   My point was that unless you are in on-mountain lodging (which many said they weren't) then you are still having to drag your gear to the mountain on most days.    And if you do travel to other mountains than your home mountain - you're dragging your gear there just like me.    My secondary point was that I thought some were overstating the difficulty of bringing gear to the mountain.
> 
> Of course, ski lockers solve that problem too.
> 
> Don't get my comments wrong.  I totally get the "ski lifestyle" that many have referenced that comes with ownership & commitment to one area.   For me, I just decided that I'd rather try all the mountains in the northeast, be able to follow the snow, and spending the money on hotel rooms or renting a house/condo for the week.    Doesn't make it any more right or wrong than those who chose to buy, just my preference.



on a ski day we toss skis in van, toss our ski boot bags in and that's it. To pack up 5 people for a ski weekend away means all your ski clothes (few diff't weights), the food, the kids niceties..I love the ease of driving 6 miles to ski from our own home. We have AWD, have yet to be bothered by cleaning snow off car...actually I do it with joy


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## cdskier (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> You guys are missing my point.   Many in this thread were citing "not having to pack gear" as one of the advantages of condo ownership.   My point was that unless you are in on-mountain lodging (which many said they weren't) then you are still having to drag your gear to the mountain on most days.



What gear? I grab my skis, throw on my backpack (that I ski with and that really only has my camera, water, a snack and maybe an extra set of goggles depending on the forecast), and walk to the end of my driveway for the shuttle pickup. Exact same things I would grab even if I was "on-mountain". I don't put anything in the lodge or any lockers.


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## cdskier (Aug 18, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Time to buy was right before ASC took over. They were practically giving condos away because people thought the place was closing. Still kick myself in the ass for not buying at that time. Could've bought a 2br ski in/ski out for $10k



So mid 90s? I was just entering high school so wasn't even old enough to have a driver's license yet at that time :razz:


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 18, 2015)

cdskier said:


> What gear? I grab my skis, throw on my backpack (that I ski with and that really only has my camera, water, a snack and maybe an extra set of goggles depending on the forecast), and walk to the end of my driveway for the shuttle pickup. Exact same things I would grab even if I was "on-mountain". I don't put anything in the lodge or any lockers.



Agree...I'm not on the mountain. I have a 3 min shuttle ride. I put on my  boots and go to the parking lot for the shuttle. On the few occasions I want to bring a lunch then I'll bring my pack but that's it.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 18, 2015)

Whitey said:


> *the one thing that’s stopped us is that we really enjoy skiing all over the northeast and going to different mountains.*



That's the #2 biggest negative in my book after the financial aspect.  It's also why I don't own a season pass.  I love skiing all over. I ski where the snow's best, I chase storms, I strike at last-minute lodging deals, etc...    But that's a "too each his/her own" thing, and I imagine if you own a condo you're the sort of individual who likes the familiarity and comfort of routine, etc..  Or perhaps you want to make friends and acquaintances and enjoy more of a social aspect that comes with laying roots on one mountain, etc..  



VTKilarney said:


> I've run the numbers and I keep realIng how much cheaper it is to rent.



Way, way, cheaper.


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## drjeff (Aug 18, 2015)

cdskier said:


> What gear? I grab my skis, throw on my backpack (that I ski with and that really only has my camera, water, a snack and maybe an extra set of goggles depending on the forecast), and walk to the end of my driveway for the shuttle pickup. Exact same things I would grab even if I was "on-mountain". I don't put anything in the lodge or any lockers.



Agree

I step out of my place, walk about 50 feet and stand behind my car for the shuttle bus that runs every 15 minutes to pick me up.  The same bus then drops me off maybe 100 ft from the Mount Snow ski club, where my family has a locker,  I throw my bootbag, with my apres clothes in it in our locker (I usually make the 5 minute bus ride to the mountain in the AM all geared up) and then walk maybe 200 feet to the ski check at Mount Snow where my wife and I keep our skis, and then off to the lift.

When we're done for the day, we drop our skis off at the ski check (unless it's a tuning day or the kids have an away race the next day), go change out of our ski gear in the ski club, and then either back home on the bus or more likely to the bar to wait until the kids finish training for the day and then its home and often to a friends place for a dinner/evening with other similar families. My car rarely gets used (unless there's an away race to travel to)from when I park it in Friday night until I go home either Sunday or Monday once I get to VT


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## dlague (Aug 18, 2015)

Having a condo does not make much sense for us.  We live in central NH and a boat load of resorts are an easy drive.  Cannon (home) is about 1 h 5 m drive, Ragged 40 m, Killington 1 h 40 m same with Okemo and Mt Snow, Waterville 45m and so forth.  We always ski about 20 ski areas per season so where we live works out great.  When I retire strategically finding a place closer will be in play during the winter and something on the Cape around the National Sea Shore will be the play during summer.


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## machski (Aug 18, 2015)

We bought right in the middle of the 09 recession and hit an awesome deal (got our slope side condo for more than 20% below typical asking).  We did test drive a seasonal rental 2 seasons prior which was very important.  We elected to buy a studio based on the seasonal rental of the 1 bed unit (the 1 bed had the same first floor plan as the studio).  That rental experience allowed us to tailor our expectations and tune into what we really needed.  As such, and being SR, condo prices are extremely reasonable.  We do not rent, as we have done extensive upgrades and don't want it wrecked.  I still too around to other mountains, but my wife primarily skis there.  Been such a relief to her and her career to drive up Friday night, have our own place she can cone back to at any point during the weekend and do work, then drive back Sunday.


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## fbrissette (Aug 18, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> and I imagine if you own a condo you're the sort of individual who likes the familiarity and comfort of routine, etc..



BG, I will assume you don't have any kids.  I've done the storm chasing, long drives, last-minute cheap hotel deals, heck, I've even slept in my car a few times.  Can't do that with young kids.  

Now I always take the last tram, we snack in the woods at a secret place, we wait out the ski patrol sweep, enjoy one last run all alone on the mountain and I have a beer in front of the fireplace while most folks are hitting the roads for the ride home.  On pow days, I skin up at 6h30AM, catch the real first tracks, ski down for a quick breakfast and out again for first chair.  I don't miss sleeping in crummy hotels one bit.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 18, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Time to buy was right before ASC took over. They were practically giving condos away because people thought the place was closing. Still kick myself in the ass for not buying at that time. Could've bought a 2br ski in/ski out for $10k



I think you are missing a zero and meant $100K which was about the going rate for a Snow Creek unit


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## mister moose (Aug 18, 2015)

I fully understand those that prefer the variety of no home base, follow the snow or follow the deals.

I initially was worried I would be bored at one mountain, but that turned out to be unfounded.  I chose Killington, which although it's crowded on some days, and has it's share of other warts, it's a big area, makes a ton of snow, has the longest season, and is closer than Stowe, Sugarbush and Jay. 

I skied 70 days last year, and 86 the year before that.  Part of the decision of buying a season pass, or a condo (or any home) is a volume decision.  "Will I use it enough?"

At $150 a night  for a couple, we would have spent $300 x 70, or $21.000 in hotels for that level of skiing.  Same thing for lift tickets vs a season pass.  It's clear that at that level owning a condo makes way more sense.  Those of us that ski every weekend, plus a few long weekends, plus a week or two vacation, usually put down roots at one area, otherwise the tab for all those lift tickets and hotels would be huge.

The other thing is there are many days the forecast sucks.  You would never drive up and pay good money on that forecast.  But more times than not, it turned out to be a great day after all.  We got those days.  Transients didn't.

Of course, everyone's day count, distance to the hill and budget varies.  This is what works for us.


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## HowieT2 (Aug 18, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's the #2 biggest negative in my book after the financial aspect.  It's also why I don't own a season pass.  I love skiing all over. I ski where the snow's best, I chase storms, I strike at last-minute lodging deals, etc...    But that's a "too each his/her own" thing, and I imagine if you own a condo you're the sort of individual who likes the familiarity and comfort of routine, etc..  Or perhaps you want to make friends and acquaintances and enjoy more of a social aspect that comes with laying roots on one mountain, etc..
> 
> 
> 
> Way, way, cheaper.



the problem with renting and I agree it is cheaper, is that you aren't set with a place.  We had a great house for 5 years  until the owner sold, then we had a not so good place once (we are in no way high maintenance but this place had some bad stuff) before finding another good house.  But you don't know and you have to move all your gear.  Plus you don't have it for the summer/fall.

with regard to ski/in ski/out, obviously it's the best for skiing purposes, but we prefer having a bigger place off mtn for the same cost.  Also, at least at sugarbush, in the summer, I'd rather be in the valley by the river or in town than being on mtn.  So, when we do buy eventually, it will be off mtn.


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## marcski (Aug 18, 2015)

HowieT2 said:


> the problem with renting and I agree it is cheaper, is that you aren't set with a place.  We had a great house for 5 years  until the owner sold, then we had a not so good place once (we are in no way high maintenance but this place had some bad stuff) before finding another good house.  But you don't know and you have to move all your gear.  Plus you don't have it for the summer/fall.
> 
> with regard to ski/in ski/out, obviously it's the best for skiing purposes, but we prefer having a bigger place off mtn for the same cost.  Also, at least at sugarbush, in the summer, I'd rather be in the valley by the river or in town than being on mtn.  So, when we do buy eventually, it will be off mtn.


This is all true.  I like the privacy and land of an off mountain home.  We have a locker in the lodge, so no carrying skis for me. (Btw, that is the best investment if you ski at the same resort, esp if you have kids).  We've been seasonal renters for years.  We had the best deal around for the past few years and the owners just sold it after this season. We, (fingers crossed) just found another house for this upcoming season. The new one is actually nicer albeit more expensive.  Renting does my family really well. My wife is a beach person and while, she'll enjoy a weekend or two in the mountains over the course of a summer, we'd never use a house in the summer.  I ran the numbers for the house we had just rented for a few years before the LL sold it and it works out much better financially for us to rent for the season.


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## SkiFanE (Aug 18, 2015)

marcski said:


> This is all true.  I like the privacy and land of an off mountain home.  We have a locker in the lodge, so no carrying skis for me. (Btw, that is the best investment if you ski at the same resort, esp if you have kids).  We've been seasonal renters for years.  We had the best deal around for the past few years and the owners just sold it after this season. We, (fingers crossed) just found another house for this upcoming season. The new one is actually nicer albeit more expensive.  Renting does my family really well. My wife is a beach person and while, she'll enjoy a weekend or two in the mountains over the course of a summer, we'd never use a house in the summer.  I ran the numbers for the house we had just rented for a few years before the LL sold it and it works out much better financially for us to rent for the season.


We had a locker for about 5 years. Then gave it up. I think it became over $350. And it works if you're always at same lodge - but our kids programs were at 2 different lodges - and if routine varied - could be a pain with boots at one lodge and kid taking shuttle home from other lodge. And if husband wanted to sharpen pair of skis - oops left in locker.  It did work a few years, but doesn't always make sense. We are supposedly in wait list for parking pass $400+, but have found we do fine without it. $400 May be chump change to some, but it all adds up - that's a season of après beers and food!


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## deadheadskier (Aug 18, 2015)

$400 for parking at a ski area in Maine?  Does it include valet?  :lol:


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## witch hobble (Aug 18, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> People must really like crowds.  I know a spot ten miles up the coast where you could have fifty feet of beach to yourself and free parking.   No waves at the secret spot, but everything else is better.



But where would you get your fried dough? Play skeeball? Buy a tshirt with a crude message that your mom will hate?


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## steamboat1 (Aug 18, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> I think you are missing a zero and meant $100K which was about the going rate for a Snow Creek unit


Nope


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## steamboat1 (Aug 18, 2015)

Wow you guys spend way to much to ski. I'll just keep doing what I do.


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## joshua segal (Aug 19, 2015)

A bit more detail than my earlier posting:  Probably the biggest questions to answer regarding having a place in ski country are:
1. "Can I afford it?"  
2. "Do I ski enough to justify it?"
3. "Am I willing to spend most of my time at one mountain?"

Assuming the answers to all of the above are yes, the next question is:
- Do I want to be slope-side or just nearby?

Just having a place nearby solves the problem of the length of AM travel (assuming that the roads are passable, the snow is shoveled and the car starts).  With ski-on/ski-off. When I get up, I don't have to shovel snow, worry if my car will start or the condition of the roads. I don't have to deal with base lodges or public rest rooms. If my clothes or gloves get wet, I go in and change, while I toss the wet stuff in the drier. If I need to do some work or take a break, I do so in the comfort of my home.

The first year I lived slopeside, what I saved the cost of heating my largish home, driving expenses, cafeteria/restaurant expenses.  I covered my condo fees, taxes and utility bills for an entire year.

I don't recommend that you buy without renting for a seasson or two (unless the price is so low that one could flip it at a profit in a year or two).


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## Vortex (Aug 19, 2015)

SkiFanE said:


> We had a locker for about 5 years. Then gave it up. I think it became over $350. And it works if you're always at same lodge - but our kids programs were at 2 different lodges - and if routine varied - could be a pain with boots at one lodge and kid taking shuttle home from other lodge. And if husband wanted to sharpen pair of skis - oops left in locker.  It did work a few years, but doesn't always make sense. We are supposedly in wait list for parking pass $400+, but have found we do fine without it. $400 May be chump change to some, but it all adds up - that's a season of après beers and food!



I think I got your old locker.  We do a parking pass at the Phoenix. 1/2 the money.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 19, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Nope



No way that Snow Creek slopeside condos were selling for less than the average cost of a new car back in 1999-2000.  Looked up on vtrealestaevalues and going rate was around $100K in 1999-2000.


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## Whitey (Aug 19, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> If you're looking for an honest poll/assessment, know that the odds are people who have made that significant and substantial purchase decision, are not going to tell you he/she did the wrong thing, even if they know it to be true.  Buyer/consumer psychology.



I think that now that we've got 7 pages of responses it's pretty safe to say that BG's crystal ball was working pretty good when he made this early post.    

Hey BG - can you look into that crystal ball and let me know who is going to win the world series and the superbowl?   I am going to Vegas in a couple of weeks and want to make some bets.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 19, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> *Wow you guys spend way to much to ski.*



Yeah, I mean, I know I'm an "extreme shopper" of sorts, but some of these estimates seem pretty high.



Whitey said:


> I think that now that we've got 7 pages of responses it's pretty safe to say that BG's crystal ball was working pretty good when he made this early post.
> *
> Hey BG - can you look into that crystal ball and let me know who is going to win the world series and the superbowl?*



Saint Louis Cardinals

Green Bay Packers


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## SkiFanE (Aug 19, 2015)

Bob R said:


> I think I got your old locker.  We do a parking pass at the Phoenix. 1/2 the money.


Haha, maybe, it was 58. I think Cartman might be next door. Do miss starting my day out with N&N though. We didn't have much trouble parking last winter - roadrunner if we have to, and white cap is usually deserted. Although I did get a spot that gave me that obnoxious orange sticker one day - the next day they out up a No Parking sign lol.  We could shuttle too for the bad weekends - but thats an extra 20 minutes we usually don't plan for when we need to make kids programs


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## deadheadskier (Aug 19, 2015)

It's a pain taking the Tempest chair,  but I used to park at White Cap 90% of the time as a pass holder.  Closest spots to lodge and no hill like Barker.   Southridge too much of a madhouse


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## Vortex (Aug 19, 2015)

I have yet to take the shuttle to the mountain to start the day.  I have taken it home and left a car for the fam to use to come home. Same Area, SkifanE, not the same locker then. 


 I am out most days for one of the first few chairs. Locker/room is Awesome.    Still Leaning the ropes of off mountain.   Nice to have a back up of everything warm and dry.  Never will be as easy as ski on ski off.  IMO best way to go with kids.  As soon as they hit college.... Off Mountain and a house.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 19, 2015)

spring_mountain_high said:


> Seems most folks here do not own, but I thought there might be a few...
> 
> If you could go back and make the decision to buy or not to buy again, what would you choose to do and why?
> 
> Do you guys rent out your places?  Ski-on/off vs near/around the base?



We own a condo at Mt Ellen at Sugarbush and purchased after doing 5 years of a seasonal rental in the MRV.  We're a year round committed family to Sugarbush and the area so buying for us made a lot of sense.  We ski most every weekend from opening in November to close in early May as well as extended weeks for school vacations.  We also use our condo 2 or 3 weekends per month in the spring, summer and fall as all four seasons draw us to VT.  Renting our place was never a consideration from a financial aspect as well as not wanting to deal with renters, cleaning, locking up personal gear, etc. 

Our condo is walk on/ski home so we don't have to deal with driving to the mountain, shuttling kids, dealing with parking and other scenarios that others have mentioned in this thread.  I put my gear in my Transpak and do a five minute warm up walk in the morning.  Being at the base of Mt Ellen is awesome year round - it's quiet in the offseason and I consider it to be my backyard for walks and hikes with my dog and family.


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 19, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> No way that Snow Creek slopeside condos were selling for less than the average cost of a new car back in 1999-2000.  Looked up on vtrealestaevalues and going rate was around $100K in 1999-2000.



I believe he was talking killington. Isn't Snow Creek condos Sugarbush?


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## cdskier (Aug 19, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> I believe he was talking killington. Isn't Snow Creek condos Sugarbush?



Yes, but I think steamboat was talking about SB since it was in response to my comment about SB condo prices being reasonable.


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## steamboat1 (Aug 19, 2015)

WWF-VT said:


> No way that Snow Creek slopeside condos were selling for less than the average cost of a new car back in 1999-2000.  Looked up on vtrealestaevalues and going rate was around $100K in 1999-2000.


Look at prices in 1993. Otten didn't come in until 94.


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## dlague (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> People must really like crowds.  I know a spot ten miles up the coast where you could have fifty feet of beach to yourself and free parking.   No waves at the secret spot, but everything else is better.



No waves - that's why I wouldn't be there.  Waves suck on the east coast for the most part but being NH I will take what I can get.


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## dlague (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Yeah, never understood the whole beach house thing unless it's from Virginia on South and can be used more than 3-4 months.  I live 15 minutes from the NH coast.  Staggering amount of vacant homes for 7-8 months of the year.  Kind of nice to walk out there in winter when you have the place to yourself compared to how crazy it gets during summer.  There was 70K+ people on Hampton Beach this Sunday



Too many people there - avoid like the plague.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 20, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Look at prices in 1993. Otten didn't come in until 94.



Sales in 1993 were from $75-92K for slopeside at Snow Creek.  That's still way more than the $10K you said could purchase a 2 BR ski in/ski out unit at Sugarbush.  The last few years under ASC ownership was the time when Sugarbush laguished and Summit Ventures began the turnaround in 2001


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## dlague (Aug 20, 2015)

Whitey said:


> Lastly, when you own at one place, especially if you're either not renting at all, or at least not during the known time frame since you last were at your place,  it is so nice to just be able to leave your primary residence with not much more than what you're wearing that day, and just go right to your place with basically not having to unload anything more from your car than just some groceries.  It really is simply you just going home



I thought this was a site for hardcore skiers.  Recurring theme – “waahhh, I don’t like having to pack, so I lock into one mountain & buy a condo so I can leave my stuff there”.    

Your cushy lives in your condos have left you out of practice and behind the times.  A couple of points: Unless there’s a lot more 1 percenters here than I thought, most of us wouldn’t be able to afford a ski in/ski out on mountain type of place anyway.  Many have referenced that they are “on the shuttle route” or nearby to a mountain.  If that’s the case – you are packing it in anyway.  2[SUP]nd[/SUP] point – as has been stated in other threads, ski boot backpacks are one of the great recent ski inventions.  For us, we not only pack our boots, googles, gloves in there but we also put our long underwear, ski pants, etc.  in.  Basically everything but the ski jacket.  We just get changed in the lodge when we get there.  In the AM, we just get up, throw the boot backpacks in the back, skis & poles in the Thule, and go in our street clothes.   We can be out the door in 10-15 min after the alarm goes off.  True even if we are staying overnight. Only difference is the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] bag (that stays in the car) that has some xtra clothes for the overnight.  The trick is to wash & repack your ski stuff after you return from your ski trip so that it’s ready to go for the next one.  

I’ve spent the last 10 yrs schelping me, 2 boys (frequently a couple of their friends too), and sometimes the wife to different mountains.  Never had any problem getting gear to any mountain.  I usually pack a cooler with lunch, snacks, & drinks too.  I’ve also found that a lot of mountains have done a pretty good job with their “drop off” areas & keep them moving/clear.  Most times I am just rolling up, dumping kids/skis/bags and then I just park & walk up.  Pick up the skis and boot pack on the way by and meet the family in the lodge.  That’s “too hard”?

Added bonus too is that at the end of the day when all the rest of you are sweating your asses off in the bar because  you are still in your long underwear and ski pants (because you can’t take that stuff off until you get home) – my stuff is back in the ski boot backpack and I’m in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt.  I hate being in long underwear & ski pants indoors.[/QUOTE]

Funny, my family has always unloaded our boot bags and our skis and have never felt like it was an issue.  We also do apres ski without all of our ski stuff on.

Here is how it works: 

We change in to ski gear there (pretty easy) and put our street cloths in the boot bag.  When we are done we change back and go to the bar.  Really not that hard.  

BTW once our kids were 6 they carried their own stuff.  While a ski locker might be good,  unloading is not that big of a deal.   Skiing 20 ski areas per season does not help either and living at the edge of ski country with other of options takes owning or even renting out of the equation.


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## marcski (Aug 20, 2015)

dlague said:


> I thought this was a site for hardcore skiers.  Recurring theme – “waahhh, I don’t like having to pack, so I lock into one mountain & buy a condo so I can leave my stuff there”.
> 
> Your cushy lives in your condos have left you out of practice and behind the times.  A couple of points: Unless there’s a lot more 1 percenters here than I thought, most of us wouldn’t be able to afford a ski in/ski out on mountain type of place anyway.  Many have referenced that they are “on the shuttle route” or nearby to a mountain.  If that’s the case – you are packing it in anyway.  2[SUP]nd[/SUP] point – as has been stated in other threads, ski boot backpacks are one of the great recent ski inventions.  For us, we not only pack our boots, googles, gloves in there but we also put our long underwear, ski pants, etc.  in.  Basically everything but the ski jacket.  We just get changed in the lodge when we get there.  In the AM, we just get up, throw the boot backpacks in the back, skis & poles in the Thule, and go in our street clothes.   We can be out the door in 10-15 min after the alarm goes off.  True even if we are staying overnight. Only difference is the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] bag (that stays in the car) that has some xtra clothes for the overnight.  The trick is to wash & repack your ski stuff after you return from your ski trip so that it’s ready to go for the next one.
> 
> ...



Funny, my family has always unloaded our boot bags and our skis and have never felt like it was an issue.  We also do apres ski without all of our ski stuff on.

Here is how it works: 

We change in to ski gear there (pretty easy) and put our street cloths in the boot bag.  When we are done we change back and go to the bar.  Really not that hard.  

BTW once our kids were 6 they carried their own stuff.  While a ski locker might be good,  unloading is not that big of a deal.   Skiing 20 ski areas per season does not help either and living at the edge of ski country with other of options takes owning or even renting out of the equation.[/QUOTE]

Still sounds like a lot more work to me. We always have a change of clothes in the locker, along with extra ski clothes, gloves, etc.  Let alone everything from street clothes to more ski clothes back at the ski house.  I can leave the flatlands with literally nothing in hand. (Although I usually always have a few beers and thr kids have their ipads).  The only thing I take home daily that I need to bring to the mountain are my ski boots, if they are wet, I'll take them back to the house, however, they dry out sometimes by the fire as I am sipping a few fermented beverages. The wife and kids' boots usually don't get as wet, although on occasion we take those home as well.  While I agree it is certainly not prohibitive to do what you do and you get the extra variety but you can't compare how much easier it is to be 5-10 mins from the mountain.


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## Vortex (Aug 20, 2015)

Still pretty interesting Debate.  One thing I don't think is mentioned much other than by SkiFanE,  At least the majority of 2nd home owners I am aware of have Modest first homes.    ie the value of both properties are in line with a single family home ownership.

Where you are matters as well.  You can get slopeside at Sunday River for the low 100k range.  Bottom floors where you can ski to your door are more.  They seem to hold value too.   I could not afford to be in  NH or Vermont  

Age matters two.  2nd home ownership starts in the 30's and 40's mostly, when people have younger kids.  As kids hit college, they may sell or rent, and Re enter the market as they age, and  school is paid  for. 

Its not just the 1 %, what ever that is.  Is middle class and life cycles.


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## Whitey (Aug 20, 2015)

dlague said:


> Funny, my family has always unloaded our boot bags and our skis and have never felt like it was an issue.  We also do apres ski without all of our ski stuff on.
> 
> Here is how it works:
> 
> ...



Dlague -  

We gotta ski together somewhere this upcoming season.  We've got too much in common - Like to ski all over the northeast & try different mtns, same taste in ski runs/challenge, kids are hardcore lacrosse, etc.   Now it sounds like we even pack/travel to the mtns the same way.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 20, 2015)

Good point Bob.  My parents did the same as a kid.  Instead of keeping up with the Jones and buying a McMansion in the Boston burbs, they kept their starter home and bought a second place in VT.  I'm much happier having had that as a childhood experience than if they had bought one big house and we day and weekend tripped it all the time.   I also was able to establish residency at the VT house and get in state tuition when I went to UVM and saved many thousands of dollars in tuition.  Something for folks to think about if they have kids nearing college age.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 20, 2015)

dlague said:


> *No waves - that's why I wouldn't be there.  *Waves suck on the east coast for the most part but being NH I will take what I can get.



The worst part about the ocean in Maine and New Hampshire is it's a little bit like the pool in Caddyshack given how friggin' cold it typically is.  60 degrees?    Yeah, no thanks. 



Bob R said:


> Age matters two. * 2nd home ownership starts in the 30's and 40's mostly*, when people have younger kids.



This is changing though.  First-time home ownership isbumping into the 30s now.  Decrease in desire to own a home, staggering student loan debt, declining and/or stagnant wages, and psychological apprehension due to 2008 are the triggers.

EDIT:  Just checked due to curiosity, it's 33 now, and rising (i.e. not leveling off).


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## drjeff (Aug 20, 2015)

The consensus seems to be that for those who have bought that it's added to their lifestyle choice and that often other perks/conveniences that they weren't expecting are found too.

As long as we're all outside on the hill(s) of our choice having a good time either solo or with family and friends, it's all good in my book regardless of where on is sleeping that night


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Good point Bob.  My parents did the same as a kid.  Instead of keeping up with the Jones and buying a McMansion in the Boston burbs, they kept their starter home and bought a second place in VT.  I'm much happier having had that as a childhood experience than if they had bought one big house and we day and weekend tripped it all the time.   I also was able to establish residency at the VT house and get in state tuition when I went to UVM and saved many thousands of dollars in tuition.  Something for folks to think about if they have kids nearing college age.



Interesting aspect with the school tuition. What did they require for proof?


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## AdironRider (Aug 20, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> The worst part about the ocean in Maine and New Hampshire is it's a little bit like the pool in Caddyshack given how friggin' cold it typically is.  60 degrees?    Yeah, no thinks.
> 
> 
> 
> This is changing though.  First-time home ownership is bumping into the 30s now.  Decrease in desire to own a home, staggering student loan debt, declining and/or stagnant wages, and psychological apprehension due to 2008 are the triggers.



Its all in the student loan debt. Most millennials were still in college or younger during 08. Declining wages? Yeah maybe for Philosophy majors, most of my Economics friends, (same with Engineering) are doing just fine. 

But we all have enough student loan debt to make our eyes bleed, especially at 22. Now that I'm 30 and buying a house, its a bit more manageable but only because I paid down my loans early and didn't restructure or defer, which most post grads are doing. But it says something that I am 30 years old, and the only one of my friends who owns a home.


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## Puck it (Aug 20, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> Interesting aspect with the school tuition. What did they require for proof?


It is a lot harder to do that now.  Parents have to show residency not just the child.  Unless the child becomes emancipated.


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## ALLSKIING (Aug 20, 2015)

Puck it said:


> It is a lot harder to do that now.



I was wondering if time has changed that to be more difficult.


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## Puck it (Aug 20, 2015)

ALLSKIING said:


> I was wondering if time has changed that to be more difficult.


For UCONN.  I looked into it since he lived off campus for three years.

In-state tuition rates are a privilege authorized by the Connecticut General Statutes and areawarded only upon successful application for in-state tuition. Generally, the residencyclassification is determined at the time of application for admission.The University makes its decisions according to the applicable state law and within proceduresdeveloped to conform to the boundaries of this law. In-state tuition is governed by GeneralStatutes 10a-26, et. seq. The purpose of this application packet is to help you collect andsubmit the appropriate documentation to support your petition for in-state tuition rates.An individual is eligible for in-state tuition under one of the following conditions: (1) as anemancipated student who is domiciled in Connecticut; (2) as an unemancipated student whoseparents are domiciled in Connecticut; (3) as a Connecticut resident who attended four years ofand graduated from a Connecticut high-school; (4) as an emancipated student whose spouse isdomiciled in Connecticut; or (5) as a member of the military whose Home of Record isConnecticut or who is stationed in this state pursuant to military orders.There are three steps by which you apply for in-state tuition. First, you must determine thecriteria you are using to support your application. Second, you need to collect and submit theappropriate documentation by the due date. Finally, we ask you to sign a notarized affidavitconfirming the accuracy of the information submitted. Please note you may or may not becalled for an interview, after which you will receive notification of your application status.


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## dlague (Aug 20, 2015)

Whitey said:


> Dlague -
> 
> We gotta ski together somewhere this upcoming season.  We've got too much in common - Like to ski all over the northeast & try different mtns, same taste in ski runs/challenge, kids are hardcore lacrosse, etc.   Now it sounds like we even pack/travel to the mtns the same way.




Right down to kids in Lacrosse!  Once the snow starts flying PM me or I will PM you and we can set it up!


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## Puck it (Aug 20, 2015)

http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/stateresidency.phtml


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## Puck it (Aug 20, 2015)

dlague said:


> Right down to kids in Lacrosse!  Once the snow starts flying PM me or I will PM you and we can set it up!


Sounds like a Zoomer Bar initiation?


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## deadheadskier (Aug 20, 2015)

I took three semesters off.  I initially went to Skidmore College for a year and it was crazy expensive.  I realized I could get the same education at UVM for a fraction of the cost.  I established the VT house as my residence and had W2 earnings in VT for six months.  I lived off campus, worked fulltime and paid my living expenses, my folks helped with tuition.  They cut me a check, I paid the school from my bank account and no questions were asked from the school.

So, it's not something that a kid can do straight out of high school.  It took some time away from school, but I made it works.  Saved something like 28K in tuition.  This was late 90s.  Today the savings would likely be double.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I took three semesters off.  I initially went to Skidmore College for a year and it was crazy expensive.  I realized I could get the same education at UVM for a fraction of the cost.  I established the VT house as my residence and had W2 earnings in VT for six months.  I lived off campus, worked fulltime and paid my living expenses, my folks helped with tuition.  They cut me a check, I paid the school from my bank account and no questions were asked from the school.
> 
> So, it's not something that a kid can do straight out of high school.  It took some time away from school, but I made it works.  Saved something like 28K in tuition.  This was late 90s.  Today the savings would likely be double.



I should add, my older brother did the exact same thing in the early 90s at Colorado State.  He moved out there, worked for a year and established residency before going to school.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 20, 2015)

Bob R said:


> Still pretty interesting Debate.  One thing I don't think is mentioned much other than by SkiFanE,  At least the majority of 2nd home owners I am aware of have Modest first homes.    ie the value of both properties are in line with a single family home ownership.
> 
> Its not just the 1 %, what ever that is.  Is middle class and life cycles.



+1 The square footage of my house in the Boston suburbs and condo combined as well as costs are well below the current norm in my town.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 20, 2015)

AdironRider said:


> *Declining wages?*
> 
> *Yeah maybe for Philosophy majors*, most of my Economics friends, (same with Engineering) are doing just fine.



Wages for everyone in America have been on the decline.


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## Vortex (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I took three semesters off.  I initially went to Skidmore College for a year and it was crazy expensive.  I realized I could get the same education at UVM for a fraction of the cost.  I established the VT house as my residence and had W2 earnings in VT for six months.  I lived off campus, worked fulltime and paid my living expenses, my folks helped with tuition.  They cut me a check, I paid the school from my bank account and no questions were asked from the school.
> 
> So, it's not something that a kid can do straight out of high school.  It took some time away from school, but I made it works.  Saved something like 28K in tuition.  This was late 90s.  Today the savings would likely be double.



Another Angle  VSAC,  Vermont Students Assistance Corp.  Not sure if that is still what its called.  My folks moved from VT to NH my Junior year.  VSAC wanted to pull my AID due to my parents not living in VT any more.  I got a 15 minute 3 board member conference call appeal hearing.  Explained my parents moved. I stated  I had a written job offer I could provide and upon graduation, I would work and live in VT.  I also said I work in Vt every summer and every weekend, and stayed with  a Vermont Family member.  All was true.  They gave me back my State Financial aid.  I was a student in Mass.   I was surprised and impressed.  I did what I promised and so did the VSAC association.  Small state personal touch


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## Puck it (Aug 20, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Wages for everyone in America have been on the decline.


 Very true.  Salary increases have averaged 2-3% for quite a few years and cost of living is 3-4%.


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## Vortex (Aug 20, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> The worst part about the ocean in Maine and New Hampshire is it's a little bit like the pool in Caddyshack given how friggin' cold it typically is.  60 degrees?    Yeah, no thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You are correct.  I was more getting at what I experienced starting 15 years ago when I started looking at 2nd properties.


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## HowieT2 (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I should add, my older brother did the exact same thing in the early 90s at Colorado State.  He moved out there, worked for a year and established residency before going to school.



I have a son starting college next week.  establishing residency for purposes of getting in state tuition is becoming more and more difficult for obvious reasons.  so much so that there are companies that will assist for a fee but even they can't do anything in some states.


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## jimk (Aug 20, 2015)

This is mostly just restating what’s already been said in this interesting thread, my two cents:

My folks owned a vacation home near a ski area (Blue Knob) in southwestern PA from ~1972-1987.  At the time my three siblings and I ranged in age from late teens to late 20s (I was youngest).  The cool thing about the house and skiing is that it was a powerful enough draw to bring even young adult children back into the fold for many nice family gatherings/holidays that eventually grew to include spouses and grandchildren.  You will ski more if you are invested in property near a resort, than if you are just a day-tripper skier.  As stated, with ownership it becomes a lifestyle once you have season passes, all associated gear, new friends, a new place and way to spend weekends including summers too.  My parents never rented their house.  They liked it personalized and did not buy it as a moneymaker.  When they got older and sold it after 15 years they realized only a little appreciation, but had lots of fond memories and no regrets.  My folks home was about a mile from ski area.  Slopeside would have been nice, but most all the lifestyle benefits there from one mile out too.

As an adult I myself never owned a ski house, but have thoroughly enjoyed skiing around, in fact, have visited nearly 90 different ski areas at this point.  I have lived all my life in Virginia and I enjoyed our small, not very snowy local ski hills, but also was quite motivated to visit bigger, snowier ones in New England and out west.  When my kids were under the age of ~12 they usually only came with me to ski local hills a few times a winter.  It was only later that I brought them on longer ski trips.  As a result only one of my four kids (my son) is currently what you would call a die-hard expert skier, but the others still ski under the right circumstances.  It would be cool to own a ski house even now, but last year I did a one month rental in Summit County, CO and I really liked that approach.  More upfront cost, but few headaches, and no long term commitment.   I found a nice two bedroom condo and stayed for the month of March at a cost ($3500 total) for what one week might cost for a similar upscale property for just one week during the winter Holidays.  You take what you get in life and any skiing is good skiing.



PS:  I went swimming for a week every summer at Hampton Beach during the 60 and 70s.  It toughens you for ski season!  Plus, the water is beautifully clear compared to down here at the mid-Atlantic beaches.


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## slatham (Aug 20, 2015)

jimk, I grew up in Bethesda and learned to ski at Liberty (Charnita), Roundtop, and BlueKnob. Fond memories and an inbred appreciation (and knowledge) of good snowmaking! Have wanted to get back to BlueKnob (with good snow) to ski it again - want to see if Extrovert is really as steep as I remember it as a kid!


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## deadheadskier (Aug 20, 2015)

HowieT2 said:


> I have a son starting college next week.  establishing residency for purposes of getting in state tuition is becoming more and more difficult for obvious reasons.  so much so that there are companies that will assist for a fee but even they can't do anything in some states.



Are schools increasing length of stay as a means of determining residency?

College is getting so ridiculously expensive, I'm sure many still figure out a way like me and my brother did.   Might just mean a couple more years off and working after high school, which for many kids isn't a bad thing.  Let's them experience some poverty and realize how important college is.


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## VTKilarney (Aug 20, 2015)

If making money by renting was so easy, lots more people would do it.

You certainly wouldn't need to advertise your listings here.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 20, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> If making money by renting was so easy, lots more people would do it.
> 
> You certainly wouldn't need to advertise your listings here.



Looks like the posts from our friend at Jim Campbell Real Estate have been deleted.  I was hoping would be a key conributor in the "Big Burke announcement" and "Jay Peak bombshell" threads


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## jimk (Aug 20, 2015)

slatham said:


> jimk, I grew up in Bethesda and learned to ski at Liberty (Charnita), Roundtop, and BlueKnob. Fond memories and an inbred appreciation (and knowledge) of good snowmaking! Have wanted to get back to BlueKnob (with good snow) to ski it again - want to see if Extrovert is really as steep as I remember it as a kid!



LOL.  I was born in Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1953. 
Not sure I'd ever recommend driving south from LI to ski, but I have a friend who wants his ashes spread one day on Extrovert.  He’s enjoyed it that much and holds it with that much esteem.  It is steep and often gnarly due to icy surfaces and windy exposure.  Perhaps comparable to Ripcord at Mt. Snow or Upper FIS at Mt. Ellen, except usually with thin, icy conditions and a little dirt between mogul troughs.  Even to this day I frequently compare other steep slopes I come across to it.  Last winter was a poor one in Tahoe and I was at Kirkwood, CA one day when the whole mtn was covered with a thin, extra-firm, frozen granular surface.  When skiing a black diamond slope called The Wall I joked, “good thing for the years of preparation on Extrovert.”

Extrovert with abnormally good coverage in 2010:



The Wall at Kirkwood with abnormally thin/slick coverage in 2015:


Sorry for thread hijack:-0


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## gmcunni (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Are schools increasing length of stay as a means of determining residency?
> 
> College is getting so ridiculously expensive, I'm sure many still figure out a way like me and my brother did.   Might just mean a couple more years off and working after high school, which for many kids isn't a bad thing.  Let's them experience some poverty and realize how important college is.



daughter , just starting Junior year in HS, has expressed an interest in University of Colorado,  in Boulder.  if she gets in and it is her first choice we'll be CO residents before she starts school.


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## dlague (Aug 20, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Sounds like a Zoomer Bar initiation?



Hell ya!


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## dlague (Aug 20, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I took three semesters off.  I initially went to Skidmore College for a year and it was crazy expensive.  I realized I could get the same education at UVM for a fraction of the cost.  I established the VT house as my residence and had W2 earnings in VT for six months.  I lived off campus, worked fulltime and paid my living expenses, my folks helped with tuition.  They cut me a check, I paid the school from my bank account and no questions were asked from the school.
> 
> So, it's not something that a kid can do straight out of high school.  It took some time away from school, but I made it works.  Saved something like 28K in tuition.  This was late 90s.  Today the savings would likely be double.



I liked my approach.  Started college and thought it was too expensive as well not to mention that a partied and skied a little too much.  So... went into the military got out paid for school using military benefits and the remaining military money was used to pay for my student loan.  Got a job in California and used tuition reimbursement to pay for graduate degree.  Education on the cheap.  Now have a son on the same path.   Other son moved to Florida worked for six months became a resident and is going to school there for about $1000 per semester which works too.  Nice thing he is self funding it.  EVEN BETTER!


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