# '19-'20 who's part of what Pass thread



## drjeff (Feb 6, 2019)

Just announced that Snowbasin, UT and Sun Valley will be part of the Epic Pass next season

We should also be starting to get some pricing numbers in the next few weeks based on historical pricing releases....


----------



## Jully (Feb 6, 2019)

Wonder what that means for Mountain Collective. I was sort of hoping they'd go Ikon. Snowbasin especially is on my short list.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 6, 2019)

Jully said:


> *Snowbasin especially* *is on my short list.*



I'll be hitting Snowbasin next month for the first time!


----------



## xlr8r (Feb 6, 2019)

I have Epic Local this year, if they add someplace in New England, I will probably buy it again.  Hoping Wachusett joins either Epic or Ikon.  Problem with Ikon for me still is the blackout dates, and the lack of a easy day trip option from Boston.  Loon is a long day trip, Sunapee just feels much easier and closer.  

Jay Peak is the free agent, I think most of us expect Alterra to buy it and put it on Ikon.  Also there are still rumors of Vail buying Smuggs, but I doubt that will happen.


----------



## Zand (Feb 6, 2019)

As I've said, if Jay gets added to Ikon, I will send them a blank check that they can write any amount on because you won't beat that lineup in the east PLUS SLC plus Jackson, Big Sky, Steamboat, Winter Park, Taos, and on and on.


----------



## machski (Feb 6, 2019)

Jully said:


> Wonder what that means for Mountain Collective. I was sort of hoping they'd go Ikon. Snowbasin especially is on my short list.


I would have preferred that too, but makes sense Vail got in fast and added them into Epic.  They were being out gunned in Utah by Ikon as it currently stood.

I don't see smaller areas like Wachusett being added to either pass unless the parent buys the property out right.  As an independent partner resort, the economics don't make sense to revenue share with the smaller areas, unless they are owned.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Skrn (Feb 6, 2019)

Agreed. Actually if they can keep the current line up, I’d go IKON again for sure. The line up on East is already much stronger than Epic.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 6, 2019)

machski said:


> I would have preferred that too, but makes sense Vail got in fast and added them into Epic.  They were being out gunned in Utah by Ikon as it currently stood.
> 
> I don't see smaller areas like Wachusett being added to either pass unless the parent buys the property out right.  As an independent partner resort, the economics don't make sense to revenue share with the smaller areas, unless they are owned.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



Heck, with the successful operation year in and year out that Wachusett runs, it would either take the Crowley's agreeing to a full buy out of the area by one of the big(ger) operators, or some major shift in the operations of Polar Beverages for them to want to profit share with one multi-resort operators I'm guessing.

Wachusett has quite it's own niche with the combo of it's location, it's STRONG afterschool program and adult night race league, and a decent enough weekend program that appeals to SE New England with enough interest to keep them coming in large numbers week in and week out as well as year in and year out. Why would they want to dilute some of that business, when in reality they're aren't too many other players in their region that can offer up anything remotely close to what they do for a good chunk of the population base that's within an hour of them (especially if you talk South and East of their location?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 6, 2019)

machski said:


> I would have preferred that too, but *makes sense Vail got in fast and added them into Epic.  They were being out gunned in Utah by Ikon as it currently stood.*



A day-late-and-a-dollar short IMHO.

 Vail should buy Brighton or do something more Wasatch meaningful.  You need to jump in a rental car to hit Snowbasin.  Better than nothing, but the Front/Back is where the real ski $$$$$ in Utah is.


----------



## xlr8r (Feb 6, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Heck, with the successful operation year in and year out that Wachusett runs, it would either take the Crowley's agreeing to a full buy out of the area by one of the big(ger) operators, or some major shift in the operations of Polar Beverages for them to want to profit share with one multi-resort operators I'm guessing.
> 
> Wachusett has quite it's own niche with the combo of it's location, it's STRONG afterschool program and adult night race league, and a decent enough weekend program that appeals to SE New England with enough interest to keep them coming in large numbers week in and week out as well as year in and year out. Why would they want to dilute some of that business, when in reality they're aren't too many other players in their region that can offer up anything remotely close to what they do for a good chunk of the population base that's within an hour of them (especially if you talk South and East of their location?



Wachusett was on the Max Pass for two years being an independent mountain.  So they were interested in being on multi mountain passes previously.  I do not think Vail or Alterra is going to buy Wachusett, but I could see them making a deal to be on either the Ikon or Epic Passes.


----------



## machski (Feb 6, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> A day-late-and-a-dollar short IMHO.
> 
> Vail should buy Brighton or do something more Wasatch meaningful.  You need to jump in a rental car to hit Snowbasin.  Better than nothing, but the Front/Back is where the real ski $$$$$ in Utah is.


So you assume they could get an interconnect to Brighton approved with that thought, correct?  Otherwise, it is still by car.  And from Park City, Snowbasin is an easier drive than Brighton as is IMHO.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## machski (Feb 6, 2019)

xlr8r said:


> Wachusett was on the Max Pass for two years being an independent mountain.  So they were interested in being on multi mountain passes previously.  I do not think Vail or Alterra is going to buy Wachusett, but I could see them making a deal to be on either the Ikon or Epic Passes.


True on the Max Pass, so they are willing to revenue share.  I just don't think either pass is looking to add a non-owned area like Wachusett to their mixes.  Look at the current offerings, the only smallish areas on either pass are out right owned by the pass parent.  Regardless of what Wachusett may or may not want, not their call.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## abc (Feb 6, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Vail should buy Brighton or do something more Wasatch meaningful.  You need to jump in a rental car to hit Snowbasin.  Better than nothing, but the Front/Back is where the real ski $$$$$ in Utah is.


Really? Are Brighton skiers the "big spender" Vail is after?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 6, 2019)

abc said:


> Really? Are Brighton skiers the "big spender" Vail is after?



It's more about additional options and terrain, and especially access to some Front terrain.  I guarantee you Vail wishes it had a piece of something on the Front, rather than solely on the Back.  It makes perfect business sense.



machski said:


> So you assume they could get an interconnect to Brighton approved with that thought, correct?  Otherwise, it is still by car.  And from Park City, Snowbasin is an easier drive than Brighton as is IMHO.



Something originating from near the top of Jupiter to get you to Brighton.  A schematic of one potential option is on the ONE Wasatch website.  But even without the interconnect or "buying" a competitor, I think it would behoove EPIC to add another Wasatch mountain resort to the EPIC partnership.   Utah is one of the premier ski destinations in North America, and all they have in the Wasatch is Park City.  Seems like a very un-Vail-like decision, and not the Go-Big-Or-Go-Home Vail mantra at all.


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 6, 2019)

machski said:


> True on the Max Pass, so they are willing to revenue share.  I just don't think either pass is looking to add a non-owned area like Wachusett to their mixes.  Look at the current offerings, the only smallish areas on either pass are out right owned by the pass parent.  Regardless of what Wachusett may or may not want, not their call.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


I would actually like to see Wawa get on the Freedom pass. That would make it appealing to me for sure.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## skitheeast45 (Feb 6, 2019)

xlr8r said:


> I have Epic Local this year, if they add someplace in New England, I will probably buy it again.  Hoping Wachusett joins either Epic or Ikon.  Problem with Ikon for me still is the blackout dates, and the lack of a easy day trip option from Boston.  Loon is a long day trip, Sunapee just feels much easier and closer.



I think Vail buying Smuggs would really solidify itself in the Boston market. Stowe is extremely popular for Bostonians and making it the largest resort east of the Rockies would be excellent marketing (and a blow to Killington). Sunapee is already a mountain for people who don't want to drive very far, so I am not sure if adding another would cannibalize traffic. It only makes sense for Vail/Alterra to purchase a mountain as small as Wachusett if its the best option in the region, which its not given its only like 30-45 min closer to Boston than Sunapee. If Vail/Alterra want a small northeast mountain, I think they would target something like Windham/Mountain Creek/Camelback to shave hours off drives for New Yorkers and increase their appeal.



xlr8r said:


> Jay Peak is the free agent, I think most of us expect Alterra to buy it and put it on Ikon.  Also there are still rumors of Vail buying Smuggs, but I doubt that will happen.



Alterra buying Jay would solidify Ikon as the pass for people in Quebec with Tremblant already in its portfolio. Interesting whether Vail is trying to penetrate the market with a purchase.



BenedictGomez said:


> A day-late-and-a-dollar short IMHO.
> 
> Vail should buy Brighton or do something more Wasatch meaningful.  You need to jump in a rental car to hit Snowbasin.  Better than nothing, but the Front/Back is where the real ski $$$$$ in Utah is.



I think Alterra would never let Vail outbid them for Brighton. Solitude/Brighton are comfortably behind PC, DV, Alta/Bird, and Snowbasin when it comes to popularity, but the opportunity to combine them into one large resort with one owner can result in a massive rebrand/push that could bolster its popularity. I don't think Vail is too worried about Utah with Snowbasin going Epic and PC remaining a monster, but if it wanted more snow it could expand into the area in between Jupiter and Cloud Dine, as that area gets much of the snow Brighton receives.


----------



## Harvey (Feb 6, 2019)

Freedom and Gore.


----------



## gladerider (Feb 6, 2019)

on ikon this year. was on maxpass last year. hoping ikon adds some place close to nyc. if they don't, i may go peakpass next year. driving up to VT every weekend from NJ is a bit too much.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 6, 2019)

I didn't really understand the "hardcore" Eastern skier appeal to Ikon given Stratton is the only place that's unlimited.  If you don't mind the driving (Kusty...) I can see how you can piece together 30 East Coast ski days but you're going to be spending a lot of $$$ on lodging.

I am settled in Southern VT with my ski club house so I need Killington/Pico to go unlimited for Ikon to be worth it for me.  7 days at Sugarbush is great, unlimited Stratton works with me for day trips and is 15 minutes from my VT digs.  


If there are no changes I might do Ikon with a Killington/Pico spring pass for more days.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 6, 2019)

gladerider said:


> on ikon this year. was on maxpass last year. hoping ikon adds some place close to nyc. if they don't, i may go peakpass next year. driving up to VT every weekend from NJ is a bit too much.



Exactly.  Max was amazing simply because you had EC destinations, WC destinations, and...most impressive...DAYTRIP options abounds.


----------



## abc (Feb 6, 2019)

No point in moaning the death of MAX. It's over, dead, gone. It was good when it last though. I was on it last season. Fantastic lineups. But it's no more. 

Ikon isn't the same. It has some advantages but also serious drawbacks. 


ss20 said:


> I didn't really understand the "hardcore" Eastern skier appeal to Ikon given Stratton is the only place that's unlimited.


You don't understand the appeal because there's none. The Ikon eastern options sucks. 

I made the best lemonade from the eastern part of that lemon, by driving up to Sugarbush. I may even try Sugarloaf later in the season. But the closest mountain for me is Stratton, which is too far for a day trip and not great terrain. So even though I have access to free lodging, I don't go there that often. Unlimited is of not much use for me. 

But the western part of the lemon (the lemon flower) is super sweet!!! I have 2 more trips planned out west. That's after 3 weeks in Colorado: Aspen, Copper, Steamboat. 8-9 days of powder 5+". 

If I "had to" do it again next year? Twist my arm, I will!  

Epic? It's no better in terms of access. So I'll probably pass.


----------



## crazy (Feb 7, 2019)

skitheeast45 said:


> I don't think Vail is too worried about Utah with Snowbasin going Epic and PC remaining a monster, but if it wanted more snow it could expand into the area in between Jupiter and Cloud Dine, as that area gets much of the snow Brighton receives.



I don't think Vail owns the land you're talking about, otherwise they would have expanded. They already had to close a couple of trails at Park City this year because a private landowner decided to not let Vail use their land.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 7, 2019)

crazy said:


> I don't think Vail owns the land you're talking about, otherwise they would have expanded. *They already had to close a couple of trails at Park City this year because a private landowner decided to not let Vail use their land.*



I've seen posts where people hike to and ski this anyway, so I'm assuming you can easily get back to resort property from it.  Scott's Bowl I think is one spot/


----------



## dlague (Feb 8, 2019)

We are thinking through our options. 

We like the Epic Local Pass because of Breck, Keystone and A Basin with Crested Butte as an added weekend trip. We hit Beaver Creek and Vail a few times too.

We considered the Ikon Pass with Copper as our closest option but Winter Park and Steamboat are a little too far.  Aspen is way too far and would require lodging.

Alternatively, we are looking at a Loveland pass with the Veterans Pass at A Basin for $99. The Loveland pass comes with a bunch of 3 free days at many other resorts.

The there is the Keystone / A Basin pass for $350ish.

In the end we more than likely do Epic Local.

Sent from my SM-G930V using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## skitheeast45 (Feb 8, 2019)

crazy said:


> I don't think Vail owns the land you're talking about, otherwise they would have expanded. They already had to close a couple of trails at Park City this year because a private landowner decided to not let Vail use their land.



That is correct, Vail does not own much of the land. The group that owns the land in this particular area is the same group that owns The Colony real estate project, who already lease Vail a lot of land. They would be more than happy to include additional land provided Vail construct more lifts and trails to allow for more houses to be constructed. In fact, they already have plans for more development should Vail choose to expand into that area.

The area that PC was forced to close earlier this year was West Scott's Bowl, which is owned by a private firm and the plot of land is primarily located in BCC. Fun fact, Alterra actually owns most of the Jupiter area.


----------



## FBGM (Feb 8, 2019)

Epic pass is almost as bad of an option as that stupid Peak Resorts Pass. Both are like lighting money on fire. Only a NJ Jong thinks Epic is good and Vail Resorts are fun.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 8, 2019)

FBGM said:


> Epic pass is almost as bad of an option as that stupid Peak Resorts Pass. Both are like lighting money on fire. Only a NJ Jong thinks Epic is good and Vail Resorts are fun.



Serious question- where do you enjoy skiing?


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Serious question- where do you enjoy skiing?


Legit question.  I question if FBGM even enjoys skiing at all.  Bitter dude

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Zermatt (Feb 9, 2019)

Does anybody recall what early season pricing on Bromley passes was this season (adults and kids 8-10yo)?

We may have access to a house there next season and trying to budget out the costs.


----------



## pauldotcom (Feb 9, 2019)

Epic is in my sights also. I’m interested to see what happens with Haystack.. Would love to see Vail buy up this impressive property and make it Epic. I’m also monitoring Killington - that would be a game changer.


----------



## FBGM (Feb 9, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Serious question- where do you enjoy skiing?



Aspen, Jackson Hole, Deer Valley, few areas via helicopter and lots of areas via my own power.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 9, 2019)

Mount Snow/Peak will be announcing pricing on March 6th for next year per the GM of Mount Snow at the passholders meeting today....

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 9, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> *I question if FBGM even enjoys skiing*



Obvious troll account is so very obvious.

At least I thought it was, but apparently not.


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Obvious troll account is so very obvious.
> 
> At least I thought it was, but apparently not.


Even a troll acct can make up names of resorts. 

PSA... please do not quote his posts. I have him on ignore and it works well unless someone quotes him then I have to read his bullshit.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 10, 2019)

Someone asked about traffic in LCC.  It snowed 6” last night and this is the result.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## abc (Feb 10, 2019)

Yep! Brake lights for miles.


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 10, 2019)

Unmitigated shitshow today. But the skiing is great. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 10, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> Unmitigated shitshow today. But* the skiing is great. *



Seven feet in a week will do that!


----------



## kingslug (Feb 10, 2019)

If you want to see the impact of the Ikon pass at Alta..go to the Liftlines ski forum..
I guess my dream of moving to utah some day and skiing Alra..might be shot..


----------



## thebigo (Feb 11, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Mount Snow/Peak will be announcing pricing on March 6th for next year per the GM of Mount Snow at the passholders meeting today....
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



Any mention of changes to the structure? Wondering if the ranger pass may be blacked out next year at the crotch, crowds up significantly on holidays this year.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 11, 2019)

thebigo said:


> Any mention of changes to the structure? Wondering if the ranger pass may be blacked out next year at the crotch, crowds up significantly on holidays this year.


When asked about any specifics (pricing, access {or more appropriately limiting access} to some resorts/days) the answers were given in distinct generalities that implied that the details were still being worked out for the public to find out on March 6th. 

About the only specifics offered up was that Peak will be offering up pass products for next season, and they'll release them on March 6th [emoji6]

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 11, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Seven feet in a week will do that!



Yes.  And after next week it will be very, very quiet!


----------



## drjeff (Mar 5, 2019)

Peak dropped their details this morning at peakpass.com....  On sale starting tomorrow

$629 unlimited at all of their resorts for adults (age 30+), $399 for the age 7-29 demographic in their respective passes


----------



## Edd (Mar 5, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Peak dropped their details this morning at peakpass.com....  On sale starting tomorrow
> 
> $629 unlimited at all of their resorts for adults (age 30+), $399 for the age 7-29 demographic in their respective passes



No price increase on at least a couple of the Peak passes. There’s a Cranmore/Bretton Woods pass called Sun N Ski that didn’t increase in price also.


----------



## thebigo (Mar 5, 2019)

Edd said:


> No price increase on at least a couple of the Peak passes. There’s a Cranmore/Bretton Woods pass called Sun N Ski that didn’t increase in price also.



Ranger is blacked out at crotched next year, effectively a $200 increase for my family. This combined with the cost of the killington spring pass, necessary because wildcat tends to stay open midweek through MA april vacation then close midweek for NH vacation, changes the calculus for us. Need to review options but a combination of gunstock or ragged with killington may make more sense for us.


----------



## GregoryIsaacs (Mar 5, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Peak dropped their details this morning at peakpass.com....  On sale starting tomorrow
> 
> $629 unlimited at all of their resorts for adults (age 30+), $399 for the age 7-29 demographic in their respective passes



Looks like they got rid of the December deadline for the Drifter pass as well.. I wonder why........


----------



## ss20 (Mar 5, 2019)

Waiting on Killington to release their details.  Either going to do a full Killington pass of Ikon base + Killington spring pass.  5 days at Sugarbush is very tempting...5 days at Stratton is pretty convenient for me and a definite plus.  Even if I use 5 days at K/Pico, 5 days at the bush, 5 days at Stratton, that's $650 right there plus $229 for another 6-10 days at Killington with the spring pass.  $830 for 25 days is a lot of $$$.


----------



## machski (Mar 5, 2019)

ss20 said:


> Waiting on Killington to release their details.  Either going to do a full Killington pass of Ikon base + Killington spring pass.  5 days at Sugarbush is very tempting...5 days at Stratton is pretty convenient for me and a definite plus.  Even if I use 5 days at K/Pico, 5 days at the bush, 5 days at Stratton, that's $650 right there plus $229 for another 6-10 days at Killington with the spring pass.  $830 for 25 days is a lot of $$$.


Ikon base has blackout days at Stratton but is otherwise unlimited there 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 5, 2019)

machski said:


> Ikon base has blackout days at Stratton but is otherwise unlimited there
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



uh, no. stratton is 5 days with blackout at the ikon base level.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 5, 2019)

machski said:


> Ikon base has blackout days at Stratton but is otherwise unlimited there





KustyTheKlown said:


> uh, no. stratton is 5 days with blackout at the ikon base level.



What Kusty said...
https://www.ikonpass.com/en/shop-passes/ikon-base-pass-2019-2020

Stratton is definitely listed in the "5 days at select destinations" section for the base level.


----------



## drjeff (Mar 6, 2019)

Windham is dropping hints that they'll have a significant announcement later this week on their social media feeds....

Some regulars have their social media feed rumor mill speculating that they're going Epic or IKON or Peak..... Others hinting at another new lift and some snowmaking enhancements.....

And you know that Jay has received some offers.....

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## icecoast1 (Mar 7, 2019)

Peak Pass and Magic pass (when they go on sale) for weekends holidays and powder days


----------



## JimG. (Mar 7, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Windham is dropping hints that they'll have a significant announcement later this week on their social media feeds....
> 
> Some regulars have their social media feed rumor mill speculating that they're going Epic or IKON or Peak..... Others hinting at another new lift and some snowmaking enhancements.....
> 
> ...



That would be great.

Windham is the perfect Catskills mountain to join one of these passes.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 7, 2019)

Windham is prime feeder resort. More upscale than its cats neighbors. Not state owned. Not scrappy like platty. Not kind of crap like huntah. 

I’d be very pleased to add windham to ikon. Gives me a great option for weekends when I can’t gst away for2 days


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 7, 2019)

Copper putting a lift up tucker. Probably the best terrain there. Double edge sword - the hike to requirement kept it nice, but it was a pain in the dick to wait for a cat and then hike 20 minutes.


----------



## Zand (Mar 7, 2019)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Copper putting a lift up tucker. Probably the best terrain there. Double edge sword - the hike to requirement kept it nice, but it was a pain in the dick to wait for a cat and then hike 20 minutes.



That's a game changer for them.


----------



## skimagic (Mar 7, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Windham is dropping hints that they'll have a significant announcement later this week on their social media feeds....
> 
> Some regulars have their social media feed rumor mill speculating that they're going Epic or IKON or Peak..... Others hinting at another new lift and some snowmaking enhancements.....
> 
> ...



The speculation is over, the announcement is for a new snowcat, upgrade of C Lift and trail widening.  
It didn't seem to make sense to announce a jump to IKON a week after the pass came out.   I could see them joining at some point since investments are being made .


----------



## JimG. (Mar 7, 2019)

skimagic said:


> The speculation is over, the announcement is for a new snowcat, upgrade of C Lift and trail widening.
> It didn't seem to make sense to announce a jump to IKON a week after the pass came out.   I could see them joining at some point since investments are being made .



Well that sucks.

That means NYS owned areas in the crosshairs.

Maybe they'll go for something like Holiday Valley instead.


----------



## gladerider (Mar 7, 2019)

i went to windham a couple of seasons ago. it was bursting out of its seems. horrible. i don't think it handles the crowd as well as hunter.
i would love to see ORDA striking a deal with IKON.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2019)

Am I the only one who finds Windham boring?  

 I'm not a hater, and I get there maybe once every 3 years, I just personally find it too wide-open-cruisery in a homogeneous way.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 7, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Am I the only one who finds Windham boring?
> 
> I'm not a hater, and I get there maybe once every 3 years, I just personally find it too wide-open-cruisery in a homogeneous way.



I agree. I’d much rather go to Platty or Belleayre as I think both offer more challenge and variety. Hunter does as well, but I could only deal with going there midweek.

Overall windham is my least favorite of the Catskills. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 8, 2019)

def prefer platty and bell. but I’ll take windham over hunter every time


----------



## drjeff (Apr 13, 2019)

Mountain Creek was dropping hints that their regulars might want to get an Epic product before the 1st cut off deadline on their social media today.....

Given their new this year owner's big ties to the overall ski industry in general, wouldn't be surprised if Mountain Creek is on the Epic next year, and the NYC metro crew has an extra reason to go to other Epic resorts next season.....

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 13, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Mountain Creek was dropping hints that their regulars might want to get an Epic product before the 1st cut off deadline on their social media today.....
> 
> Given their new this year owner's big ties to the overall ski industry in general, *wouldn't be surprised if Mountain Creek is on the Epic next year, and the NYC metro crew has an extra reason to go to other Epic resorts next season.....*



Meh, born & raised in New Jersey, live in New Jersey, and I've never been to Mountain Creek.  I think it's a very local mountain.


----------



## JimG. (Apr 13, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Meh, born & raised in New Jersey, live in New Jersey, and I've never been to Mountain Creek.  I think it's a very local mountain.



Mountain Creek not epic.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> A day-late-and-a-dollar short IMHO.
> 
> Vail should buy Brighton or do something more Wasatch meaningful.  You need to jump in a rental car to hit Snowbasin.  Better than nothing, but the Front/Back is where the real ski $$$$$ in Utah is.



I highly doubt that Boyne would let Vail grab Brighton.  It is a cash cow for Boyne and a real dark horse.  They have a good local following, good infrastructure, great snow, and no real big debt to speak of.  If anything, the last couple years have seen Boyne doing more marketing and promotions for Brighton.  They now have a lot more of a summer presence up there with Milly Chalet open for weekend food and the store (that they own) open longer hours.  They have tried a few events and are slowly building up.

If Boyne was looking to unload in order to pay down the HUGE investments that they have been making to Big Sky, I would imagine that Alterra would be more interested since it sits right next door to Solitude and is just over the ridge from Deer Valley.  That raises the interesting question as to if this would be a monopoly having Alterra own both BCC resorts.  That said, Boyne was very serious about buying Solitude before Deer Valley did, but they could not get the cash.


----------



## mikes (Apr 13, 2019)

There’s some interesting rumors floating around regarding PA resorts... Camelback going IKON and Blue going Epic with both being announced within a few weeks.   Time will tell...


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 13, 2019)

mikes said:


> There’s some interesting rumors floating around regarding PA resorts... Camelback going IKON and Blue going Epic with both being announced within a few weeks.   Time will tell...



Makes sense.  IIRC neither Alterra or Vail have much a presence in the Mid-Atlantic area.


----------



## TyWebb (Apr 14, 2019)

mikes said:


> There’s some interesting rumors floating around regarding PA resorts... Camelback going IKON and Blue going Epic with both being announced within a few weeks.   Time will tell...


Yep.  Have read that KSL Capitol will announce the purchase of Camelback Pa soon.  Makes sense considering they already own ski resorts (Alterra / IKON) and indoor water-park hotels .. Camelback has both.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2019)

TyWebb said:


> Yep.  Have read that KSL Capitol will announce the purchase of Camelback Pa soon.  Makes sense considering they already own ski resorts (Alterra / IKON) and indoor water-park hotels .. Camelback has both.



I wonder if KSL is kicking the tires on Jay Peak if they own waterparks and ski areas.  I only knew that they owned Squaw Valley/Alpine Meadows.


----------



## mbedle (Apr 14, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> I wonder if KSL is kicking the tires on Jay Peak if they own waterparks and ski areas.  I only knew that they owned Squaw Valley/Alpine Meadows.



Isn't KSL = alterra?


----------



## drjeff (Apr 14, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> I wonder if KSL is kicking the tires on Jay Peak if they own waterparks and ski areas.  I only knew that they owned Squaw Valley/Alpine Meadows.


Gotta think that all the players (known for sure and maybe a relatively unknown player or 2) are kicking the tires on Jay.

Just likely will come down to the combo of is Jay and Burke a package deal or not, what the price vs EBITA can be negotiated too and how much they want to buy it

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## benski (Apr 14, 2019)

Greek peak is on the Freedom Pass now.


----------



## benski (Apr 14, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Am I the only one who finds Windham boring?
> 
> I'm not a hater, and I get there maybe once every 3 years, I just personally find it too wide-open-cruisery in a homogeneous way.


No. I know someone with a pass their and used to have a pass their. Both agree, its lame. I found the same thing when I skied the main quad for a day and the snow-making was wet.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Gotta think that all the players (known for sure and maybe a relatively unknown player or 2) are kicking the tires on Jay.
> 
> Just likely will come down to the combo of is Jay and Burke a package deal or not, what the price vs EBITA can be negotiated too and how much they want to buy it
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app



At last check, Burke was on hold from sale because they were behind on the job creation requirement and honestly behind on building up business.  No word at all about any deal on Jay, but it is on the market.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2019)

mbedle said:


> Isn't KSL = alterra?



Good question.  Alterra = Crown (Aspen) + KSL.  I think that each has kept their own identities for their respective mountains, but I could be wrong.  Crown still owns Aspen/Snowmass and runs it separately.  KSL was Squaw/Alpine Meadows.  Alterra is the "synergy" of the two groups...to use a new age term.  :lol:


----------



## slatham (Apr 15, 2019)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ski-pass-locals-love-to-hate?srnd=pursuits-vp


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 15, 2019)

thetrailboss said:


> If Boyne was looking to unload in order to pay down the HUGE investments that they have been making to Big Sky, *I would imagine that Alterra would be more interested since it sits right next door to Solitude* and is just over the ridge from Deer Valley.



Definitely.  It makes sense for both, but far more for Alterra. The potential plans show 2 lifts needed to connect Deer Valley with Brighton.  I hiked in there this summer, and it's beautiful land with several natural ponds.  IIRC, some of the land is private and would also need to be acquired I think.


----------



## BenedictGomez (May 23, 2019)

Camelback just posted, then deleted, an article on Facebook that was all about Vail.

It makes me wonder if they're going to be added to EPIC?

The article was somewhat insipid & all about Global Warming & virtue-signaling how wonderful Vail is in leading the ski resort charge against Climate Change, so it's possible they deleted it thinking it was political in nature, but I thought it odd Camelback posted an article about Vail in the first place given there's no current relationship.


----------



## trackbiker (May 23, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Camelback just posted, then deleted, an article on Facebook that was all about Vail.
> 
> It makes me wonder if they're going to be added to EPIC?
> 
> The article was somewhat insipid & all about Global Warming & virtue-signaling how wonderful Vail is in leading the ski resort charge against Climate Change, so it's possible they deleted it thinking it was political in nature, but I thought it odd Camelback posted an article about Vail in the first place given there's no current relationship.



There is a rumor that Blue Mt. might be purchased by Vail. Some Vail people evidently visited this past winter.


----------



## EPB (May 23, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> The article was somewhat insipid & all about Global Warming & virtue-signaling how wonderful Vail is in leading the ski resort charge against Climate Change, so it's possible they deleted it thinking it was political in nature, but I thought it odd Camelback posted an article about Vail in the first place given there's no current relationship.



I just love how Vail is willing to sacrifice its bottom line to help the planet. The vigor with which it inspires me to buy an Epic pass has only been surpassed by the sense of purpose I felt buying Nike thermal layers after they made Colin Kaepernick the face of their brand.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## JimG. (May 23, 2019)

Camelback and Blue on top of Okemo.

Not much of an eastern lineup other than Stowe.


----------



## Bostonian (May 24, 2019)

Peaks for a third year in a row and returning also back to the Gunstock pass


----------



## dblskifanatic (May 24, 2019)

So since Epic no longer has A Basin, we are going with A Basin veterans season pass for 199 and that rate applies to wife and children.  We are also getting the Loveland season pass which gives us 3 lift tickets to several Colorado ski areas like Monarch and Cooper.

Believe it or not we will miss Breck and Keystone.  Do not really care about Vail and Beaver Creek.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## slatham (Jun 10, 2019)

Vail reported a 9% unit increase (13% revenue) in preseason pass sales through May 28th vs. same period 2018. So I guess a lot of people went EPIC. 

I personally took the dive into IKON due to a planned trip to Taos. As a VT skier, I also prefer IKON's Stratton/Killington/Sugarbush trio.


----------



## FBGM (Jun 10, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Definitely.  It makes sense for both, but far more for Alterra. The potential plans show 2 lifts needed to connect Deer Valley with Brighton.  I hiked in there this summer, and it's beautiful land with several natural ponds.  IIRC, some of the land is private and would also need to be acquired I think.



That won’t happen. To much private land. City has bought a chunk and won’t develop. There is a road in the way. There is Vail land in the way. It won’t happen.


----------



## drjeff (Aug 2, 2019)

Announced this morning. A-Basin is now part of the IKON pass. 

I'm guessing in the big scheme of things, this won't do much to change some of the "problems" that being part of the Epic Pass brought them, given their location and the proximity to the greater Denver/Boulder population base as well as the tourism volume that the other IKON resorts in the area help draw in


----------



## cdskier (Aug 2, 2019)

drjeff said:


> Announced this morning. A-Basin is now part of the IKON pass.
> 
> I'm guessing in the big scheme of things, this won't do much to change some of the "problems" that being part of the Epic Pass brought them, given their location and the proximity to the greater Denver/Boulder population base as well as the tourism volume that the other IKON resorts in the area help draw in



One "difference" though...Ikon has only a limited number of days while Epic was unlimited for A-Basin if I remember correctly.


----------



## abc (Aug 2, 2019)

cdskier said:


> One "difference" though...Ikon has only a limited number of days while Epic was unlimited for A-Basin if I remember correctly.


You remember correctly. 

But I think that won't help the crowding issue. With limited days, people would only go when condition is good. So it'll be equally crowded on days anyone wants to go, e.g. weekend or days after a big dump.


----------



## drjeff (Aug 2, 2019)

cdskier said:


> One "difference" though...Ikon has only a limited number of days while Epic was unlimited for A-Basin if I remember correctly.



Fair point.

Guess the locals with IKON's will use their days early and late, and then the masses mid winter during their CO ski trips. Time will tell...


----------



## Zand (Aug 2, 2019)

Colorado just got a little more attractive. Now you get Winter Park (which is already great), Copper (which wasn't great but the new lift in the back bowls will drastically improve it), 7 days between the Aspens, Steamboat if you want to drive, and now A-Basin. Oh and El Dora too but who cares? Still not as good as Alta, Snowbird, Brighton, Solitude, Deer Valley, and 5 hours to Jackson but it's close now.


----------



## Jully (Aug 2, 2019)

Zand said:


> Colorado just got a little more attractive. Now you get Winter Park (which is already great), Copper (which wasn't great but the new lift in the back bowls will drastically improve it), 7 days between the Aspens, Steamboat if you want to drive, and now A-Basin. Oh and El Dora too but who cares? Still not as good as Alta, Snowbird, Brighton, Solitude, Deer Valley, and 5 hours to Jackson but it's close now.



New this year a $25 roundtrip direct bus from Union Station to ABasin is nice too. I70 is not as great as Utah with the Ski Bus accessing the Cottonwoods, but that plus the ski train to WP make for nice rental-carless options too.


----------



## Kleetus (Aug 2, 2019)

Needless to say I am very happy with A Basin joining IKON. One of my favorite places to ski in CO if not my favorite of places I've been (Breck, WP, Copper, Aspen, Keystone). Bought my IKON pass with hopes A-Basin would end up on it and glad to see they did.

I am a little concerned about the crowding, but it was already pretty crowded with EPIC when I was there in the past so not sure it will make that much of a difference.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 2, 2019)

Zand said:


> Colorado just got a little more attractive. Now you get Winter Park (which is already great), Copper (which wasn't great but the new lift in the back bowls will drastically improve it), 7 days between the Aspens, Steamboat if you want to drive, and now A-Basin. Oh and El Dora too but who cares? Still not as good as Alta, Snowbird, Brighton, Solitude, Deer Valley, and 5 hours to Jackson but it's close now.


I'd say the very substantial population of skiers from Boulder on up to Ft Collins are going to be very pleased that Eldora is on the Ikon pass.   If I lived in that area its inclusion on Ikon would very much swing my pass purchase from Epic to Ikon and that's before Abasin joining. Having a close option that would allow me to avoid 70 on holidays would be huge.  

Interesting move by A-Basin to go Ikon.  I'll be interested to see how their marketing department spins it.  It would be interesting to know what their cut of the pie is for Ikon vs Epic. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## abc (Aug 2, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Interesting move by A-Basin to go Ikon.  I'll be interested to see how their marketing department spins it.  It would be interesting to know what their cut of the pie is for Ikon vs Epic.


Actually, this move by A-basin may signal the start of “musical mountain” in the next few years, when each and every independently owned mountain flip flopping back and forth between Vail and Alterra?


----------



## Zand (Aug 2, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> I'd say the very substantial population of skiers from Boulder on up to Ft Collins are going to be very pleased that Eldora is on the Ikon pass.   If I lived in that area its inclusion on Ikon would very much swing my pass purchase from Epic to Ikon and that's before Abasin joining. Having a close option that would allow me to avoid 70 on holidays would be huge.
> 
> Interesting move by A-Basin to go Ikon.  I'll be interested to see how their marketing department spins it.  It would be interesting to know what their cut of the pie is for Ikon vs Epic.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Oh I'm sure El Dora is popular amongst the locals trying to stay close. Just meant from an Eastern perspective if you're vacationing out there.


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 2, 2019)

abc said:


> Actually, this move by A-basin may signal the start of “musical mountain” in the next few years, when each and every independently owned mountain flip flopping back and forth between Vail and Alterra?


You are probably right.  That will be interesting to watch.  Also interesting will be to see  whether Vail or Alterra implode like ASC and Intrawest before them.  

I worked for Intrawest during 2002-2003.  They were printing money back then and acquiring resorts left and right.  All came crashing down.  Obviously ASC had a similar rise and fall.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## BenedictGomez (Aug 3, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Interesting move by A-Basin to go Ikon.*  I'll be interested to see how their marketing department spins it.*



That was precisely my first thought.  Normally it wouldn't have entered my mind, but given how their marketing team seemed to revel in, "anti-establishment" and "going it alone" glory about 32 seconds after pulling out of EPIC, and then seemed to gobble up the likewise social media praise like a Koala starving for eucalyptus leaves, this move surprised me.


----------



## cdskier (Aug 3, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> That was precisely my first thought.  Normally it wouldn't have entered my mind, but given how their marketing team seemed to revel in, "anti-establishment" and "going it alone" glory about 32 seconds after pulling out of EPIC, and then seemed to gobble up the likewise social media praise like a Koala starving for eucalyptus leaves, this move surprised me.



I’m not surprised at all. Didn’t their initial comments when they left epic say they were open to exploring other partnerships? To me that meant they were already thinking about ikon.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## dblskifanatic (Aug 4, 2019)

IMO the five days will not be a huge issue.  A Basin opens up early and stays open late so using five days will go quickly.  We are getting the Military Pass at A Basin which includes dependents.  It also provides three days at Taos.  We also are getting the Loveland Pass which offers options on Saturdays.  There has been talk of Eldora - that place is pretty cool and still 680 acres.  The back part has great runs.  The vertical is only 1230 ft but skis bigger.  It is a nice avoid I70 option.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## chuckstah (Aug 6, 2019)

And now A Basin joined MTN Collective. Not Indy for very long....

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using AlpineZone mobile app


----------

