# Burke submits act 250 application for new Lift



## Masskier (Mar 31, 2011)

They are still on track for a new summit lift this year.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 31, 2011)

Do you have a link?


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## from_the_NEK (Mar 31, 2011)

Wasn't a new lift already act250 approved as part of the "master plan" ( http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=25307 )? Or have they now decided to split it off into its own project?

I don't see anything new in the online Act 250 database: http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/search.cfm   Note: you have to enter search criteria.


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## Masskier (Mar 31, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Wasn't a new lift already act250 approved as part of the "master plan" ( http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=25307 )? Or have they now decided to split it off into its own project?
> 
> I don't see anything new in the online Act 250 database: http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/search.cfm   Note: you have to enter search criteria.



Give them a few days to process the application and work it into the system.  Yes, as you know they received the majority of the findings for the master plan act 250, however as they phase in the improvements they will need to amend the act 250 process.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 31, 2011)

Ascutney Chair?


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## psyflyer (Mar 31, 2011)

Thanks for the news!


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## Boardguy (Mar 31, 2011)

Nice! I'll believe it when I'm riding it but in the meantime I am very hopeful.


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## Ski the Moguls (Mar 31, 2011)

A second lift to the summit, or a replacement for the old chair to the summit?


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## Zand (Mar 31, 2011)

Funny... I was thinking on my last run today that hopefully I was taking my last ride on that damn lift. We can hope.


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## riverc0il (Mar 31, 2011)

Zand said:


> Funny... I was thinking on my last run today that hopefully I was taking my last ride on that damn lift. We can hope.


That damn lift will be very much appreciated tomorrow when the winds are honking.  Thankfully, the Poma will still be there (hopefully in its same length) when the high speeder goes in.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> A second lift to the summit, or a replacement for the old chair to the summit?


 
I'd be interested to know.  The plan has changed at least twice.  The older regime planned on replacing the Willoughby and relocating the fixed grip to the East Bowl.  Ginn had the original plan to shorten the Willoughby to the top of the Poma, cutting the Poma to the elbow, and putting in a new HSQ to the summit in the East Bowl.  Some of us at the 2006 passholder night told them that this made no sense because one would need to ride three lifts from Sherburne to get to the top.  

Coincidentally, the latest plan I have seen fixed that problem, but bulldozed MidBurke in the process.  It shortens the Poma and Willoughby and the new HSQ goes up over Doug's to the summit.  

My sources tell me that MidBurke will not be leveled...not quite yet...and the HSQ will go up over Doug's.  Not sure if the other lifts will be modified.  Leave the Poma alone IMHO!


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## riverc0il (Mar 31, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Leave the Poma alone IMHO!


Indeed. I can't see any good reason to change the Poma in any way. It is great insurance for a high speed lift. We saw what a surface lift can do this past weekend at the AZ Summit. The Loaf would have sucked on Saturday if not for that T-bar. I doubt BMA would be very happy with an altered Poma, either. Especially if they were training or racing on Warren's top to bottom and the HSQ goes down due to wind, a shortened Poma would be terrible for them as well (though a lot of training does only happen on the lower mountain). I have enjoyed powder days at Burke riding the Poma when the Quad was down. It is a great option.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 31, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Indeed. I can't see any good reason to change the Poma in any way. It is great insurance for a high speed lift. We saw what a surface lift can do this past weekend at the AZ Summit. The Loaf would have sucked on Saturday if not for that T-bar. I doubt BMA would be very happy with an altered Poma, either. Especially if they were training or racing on Warren's top to bottom and the HSQ goes down due to wind, a shortened Poma would be terrible for them as well (though a lot of training does only happen on the lower mountain). I have enjoyed powder days at Burke riding the Poma when the Quad was down. It is a great option.


 
I agree.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  Plus it is easier to just let it be and cheaper.....


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## Masskier (Mar 31, 2011)

The willoughby and Poma will stay as they are.  In fact there have been lots of improvements  made to the Poma over the past few years.  Also the Poma is considered to be a huge asset to BMA and the junior race program. The timing/warming hut will be removed and a new modern building will be built close by.


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## Ridgeman (Apr 1, 2011)

Was at Burke for the first time last January with 0 to 5 temps.  The Willoughby lift was painfully cold and slow.  By the time we got to the top our toes were frozen. The new HSQ would enable alot more runs per day.  If they doze MidBurke I hope they can preserve the bar part, one of the best post ski spots I have been at.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

Ridgeman said:


> If they doze MidBurke I hope they can preserve the bar part, one of the best post ski spots I have been at.



A lot of locals will not be happy if they knock down Burkie's Bar. It is in a good location and has a really laid back old school vibe. It is also a good counterpoint to the much more polished Tamarack Bar in that is in the base lodge. If Burke does plan to remove the entire building, there is some mumbling from the locals about actually deconstructing the section that contains the bar and re-erecting it somewhere else (either on or near the mtn).


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## Masskier (Apr 1, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> A lot of locals will not be happy if they knock down Burkie's Bar. It is in a good location and has a really laid back old school vibe. It is also a good counterpoint to the much more polished Tamarack Bar in that is in the base lodge. If Burke does plan to remove the entire building, there is some mumbling from the locals about actually deconstructing the section that contains the bar and re-erecting it somewhere else (either on or near the mtn).



Mid Burke stays as is.  They moved the location of the lift some, so they wouldn't have to take down Mid Burke


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Mid Burke stays as is.  They moved the location of the lift some, so they wouldn't have to take down Mid Burke



Okay then, what changes were made?

Roughly the "Original plan":






Move Right:





Move Left:





I prefer a move to the right since it would be less of a slog from the Willoughby side and it doesn't interfere with as many existing trails. My guess this adjustment would also be behind the new race timing building I've been hearing about since the existing one is in the way of this new line.


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## Masskier (Apr 1, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Okay then, what changes were made?
> 
> Roughly the "Original plan":
> 
> ...



You have almost the exact location (middle photo) move right.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

Masskier said:


> You have almost the exact location (middle photo) move right.



IMHO that position does make the most sense. They can put the second tower on top of the knoll behind the existing timing shack which would quickly give a lot of clearance below the chair.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

So in theory it would look something like this?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> So in theory it would look something like this?


 
The last picture looks like the Cannon Tram Building.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> The last picture looks like the Cannon Tram Building.



It looks big but it is only roughly 20 feet tall on the tall end.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 1, 2011)

So, is the Willoughby Quad being left in as an alternative for windholds?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> So, is the Willoughby Quad being left in as an alternative for windholds?


 
Sounds like it, yes.  But such windholds are rare at Burke because of the mountain's orientation.  So if there was a windhold for the HSQ there will be one for the FGQ as well.  But.....wait for it.....there is the Poma!  :beer:  

I wonder what they will name the new lift?  Kingdom Express?  Passumpsic Express?  We don't need another bland "Summit Quad" title!


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> So, is the Willoughby Quad being left in as an alternative for windholds?



No idea. I don't think there will be a significant uptick in windholds with a new HSQ here. The lift line would follow almost the exact same heading as the Willoughby where there are few situations with cross winds. For the most part the new line would stay lined by trees. However, the one problem spot I could see is where the new line would cross the upper part of Dougs Drop near the top of the POMA and before the first toll road crossing. There is little to no protection from westerly winds there.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> However, the one problem spot I could see is where the new line would cross the upper part of Dougs Drop near the top of the POMA and before the first toll road crossing. There is little to no protection from westerly winds there.


 
Right, but the prevailing winds do not go across the liftline as much as up it.  So it should not be a problem.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 1, 2011)

The current Quad might offer a bit more protection in wind as that new line for the Quad down into the Burke parking lot would be completely exposed at the base.  Probably negligable.

I would also think it would make sense to run the Fixed Grip midweek to save on power.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> The current Quad might offer a bit more protection in wind as that new line for the Quad down into the Burke parking lot would be completely exposed at the base. Probably negligable.
> 
> I would also think it would make sense to run the Fixed Grip midweek to save on power.


 
The MidBurke lot is more exposed than Willoughby base.  

And I think that the HSQ will be the new primary lift with the fixed grip closed due to its slowness.  Though that remains to be seen and is assuming that the lift is there in December.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I wonder what they will name the new lift?  Kingdom Express?  Passumpsic Express?  We don't need another bland "Summit Quad" title!



IMO "Express" is overused.

Kingdom Flyer

Kingdom Quad (rolls off the tongue)

Kingdom Superchair

Vermont View Superchair (VVS)

Top of the NEK

Burkie Bear Express

The Throbulator

Better Than 13 Minutes


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 1, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> I would also think it would make sense to run the Fixed Grip midweek to save on power.



Didn't that approach rub Ascutney skiers the wrong way? :-D


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## thetrailboss (Apr 1, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Didn't that approach rub Ascutney skiers the wrong way? :-D


 
:lol:  Yep!


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## Masskier (Apr 19, 2011)

Received notice today from Vt's District 7 Environmental Commission on Burke's  Act 250 minor application for its new lift. Application # 7C0206-13-1


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## thetrailboss (Apr 19, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Received notice today from Vt's District 7 Environmental Commission on Burke's Act 250 minor application for its new lift. Application # 7C0206-13-1


 
Odd that it still is not showing up, but based on the number, it is tied to the master plan application:  http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=24980


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## psyflyer (Apr 19, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Received notice today from Vt's District 7 Environmental Commission on Burke's  Act 250 minor application for its new lift. Application # 7C0206-13-1



Thanks for the update, its looking promising.  

We just did a turn on Burke.  Nice temps and very edgeable spring corn, not one bare spot down lower willoughby into lower mountain.  Its days like these that make you appreciate chair lifts!


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 20, 2011)

Finally updated:
http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=25809


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 20, 2011)

From the Draft permit:



> 8. In order to protect Bicknell’s Thrush habitat, no clearing may occur between May 15 and
> August 1, in the portions of the project located above elevation 2,500 feet.



They better get crackn on clearing the liftline. Note: That there is still a lot of snow above 2500 feet.


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## troy (Apr 20, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> From the Draft permit:
> 
> 
> 
> They better get crackn on clearing the liftline. Note: That there is still a lot of snow above 2500 feet.



when are they shooting for?


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## threecy (Apr 20, 2011)

Just as a side note, 6,200 feet is almost 1,000 feet longer than the Ascutney quad.


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## Telemechanic (Apr 20, 2011)

Stowe is also dealing with the Bicknell's Thrush deadlines

I noticed the picture of the proposed chair maintenance building is of Loon's Lincoln Express.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 20, 2011)

This shows just how much lower the new lift terminal will be.  

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Overall%20Site%20Plan.pdf

It will sit right where the old T-Bar used to sit before 1978 or so.  Back to the future!


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## riverc0il (Apr 20, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> This shows just how much lower the new lift terminal will be.
> 
> http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Overall%20Site%20Plan.pdf
> 
> It will sit right where the old T-Bar used to sit before 1978 or so.  Back to the future!


WOW! LOOK AT ALL THAT YELLOW ON THE TRAIL EDGES! :blink::smash::evil:

Lots of gladed terrain being destroyed in that plan. :-x Look at #17! Destroying a CLASSIC! Carriage Road and Upper Dougs get anything from a 4-6x width increase and that dumps into a double glade destroying super trail.   Doug's (already pretty wide) gets a doubling of the width. 

Maybe I didn't look at the previously posted plans close enough. This is shocking and appauling. The proposed trail widening and additions on this plan (on the main mountain, not even looking at East Bowl and its related glades) are enough to dramatically and drastically change the character of the mountain. Get to Burke ASAP before they can put this entire plan into action.

uke:


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## Nick (Apr 21, 2011)

What were those drawings done in? 

I'm learning a lot here, never even knew what ACT250 was before this thread & wikipedia


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> WOW! LOOK AT ALL THAT YELLOW ON THE TRAIL EDGES! :blink::smash::evil:
> 
> Lots of gladed terrain being destroyed in that plan. :-x Look at #17! Destroying a CLASSIC! Carriage Road and Upper Dougs get anything from a 4-6x width increase and that dumps into a double glade destroying super trail.  Doug's (already pretty wide) gets a doubling of the width.
> 
> ...


 
My understanding is that this year they are only installing the lift (blue cuts) and regrading Upper Dipper where it is in bright green.  This is good because this is a very rough section of trail that Northern Star did not quite finish/grade off, so it requires a lot of snowmaking to cover.  I also am less than thrilled with the huge cuts that are proposed.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> This shows just how much lower the new lift terminal will be.
> 
> http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Overall%20Site%20Plan.pdf
> 
> It will sit right where the old T-Bar used to sit before 1978 or so.  Back to the future!



That is *way* farther down than I was expecting . I was thought they were still planning to start the lift in the Mid-Burke parking lot.



> Maybe I didn't look at the previously posted plans close enough. This is shocking and appauling. The proposed trail widening and additions on this plan (on the main mountain, not even looking at East Bowl and its related glades) are enough to dramatically and drastically change the character of the mountain. Get to Burke ASAP before they can put this entire plan into action.



The previously posted plan had all of that crap on it. I think they had to include it in this "plan revision". I'm not so sure that will ever all happen (at least I hope not!). I would be one of the first people chaining myself to a skidder if they  ever went forward with that trail widening plan.
For the HSQ installation the only trees taken out will be the area colored blue. Which looks to be fairly minimal.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

I also find the length and location interesting. I think it is very low, but it also helps them bring the High Meadows and Mountain Brook Condos closer to the action once again and uses that empty field. It also makes sense considering that traffic from Sherburne need to access it by going around the pond and across Dashney Mile, by the snowmaking plant, and to the lift base.  The lift will climb over the parking lot, which will be interesting.  Don't drop your poles on my car!  :lol:

The lift appears to top out right on the Toll Road at the summit knoll just above the summit parking lot, so traffic will be going down off of that stretch of the Toll Road (where it now goes up) to the west side trails. 

Also note that the section of Upper Dipper in bright green is going to be regraded and finished so that the rocks and junk are covered. This means it will open a lot sooner with less snowmaking.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I also find the length and location interesting. I think it is very low, but it also helps them bring the High Meadows and Mountain Brook Condos closer to the action once again and uses that empty field. It also makes sense considering that traffic from Sherburne need to access it by going around the pond and across Dashney Mile, by the snowmaking plant, and to the lift base.



Looking at the contours in the area below the pond, getting across to the new lift base is going to be difficult no matter where they do it. IMHO the best solution is to keep with the original plan to go under the Willoughby Quad and cut/grade a traverse between the pond and the MidBurke lodge that funnels down to the new lift. Joe and Jane public are not going to want to ski up any hills. :smile:



> The lift will climb over the parking lot, which will be interesting.  Don't drop your poles on my car!  :lol:


According to Schedule B - page 2; 1 acre of parking area is going to be converted into grass covered ski slope. The only saving grace here I will be able to ski to the lift from the overflow lots. I having a feeling parking is going to be an issue on 'busy" days for a while.
An issue I see here is skiers coming from the east side of the mountain are going to have to ski around the lodge to get back to the lift. 



> The lift appears to top out right on the Toll Road at the summit knoll just above the summit parking lot, so traffic will be going down off of that stretch of the Toll Road (where it now goes up) to the west side trails.



The summit station is right in the middle of the service road intersection that goes up to the summit telecommunication towers. There will likey be some major re-working of this area to accomodate vehicles that need to get up to service those towers.



> Also note that the section of Upper Dipper in bright green is going to be regraded and finished so that the rocks and junk are covered. This means it will open a lot sooner with less snowmaking.


I was trying to figure out what that green highlighting was...


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Looking at the contours in the area below the pond, getting across to the new lift base is going to be difficult no matter where they do it. IMHO the best solution is to keep with the original plan to go under the Willoughby Quad and cut/grade a traverse between the pond and the MidBurke lodge that funnels down to the new lift. Joe and Jane public are not going to want to ski up any hills. :smile:


 
Yes, no more uphill slogs!  I was going off of memory, but now that I think of it the area below the pond is too low to get to the HSQ base.  




> According to Schedule B - page 2; 1 acre of parking area is going to be converted into grass covered ski slope. The only saving grace here I will be able to ski to the lift from the overflow lots. I having a feeling parking is going to be an issue on 'busy" days for a while.


 
Good point.  



> An issue I see here is skiers coming from the east side of the mountain are going to have to ski around the lodge to get back to the lift.


 
My thoughts as well.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

I've worked up the "official" plans in Google Earth.







The Blue polygon is where there needs to be blasting/regrading to provide all downhill access from the Sherburne Quad.






The woods between Doug's and Upper Warrens Way are going to be compromised 






The new HSQ line crosses right over the top of the Poma summit.


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## Zand (Apr 21, 2011)

uke:


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## kingdom-tele (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks NEK, nice pics.

Can someone remind me how this is such an incredible ungrade.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

The more I think about how low they are putting the lift base, the less I like it over having it where the parking lot is. 

*Pros: *
1. Better access for a few condos
2. Better access from parking (the former overflow lots)
100 more feet of vertical from this lift. 3190 - 1570 = 1610 vert (according to contours on the site plan)

*Cons:*
1. Longer run out from all trails.
2. It is going to take a while to make enough snow to cover that field (Snow making power that would be better used elsewhere).
3. In the spring time that field gets baked in the sun and it is going to be hard to keep the lift open after a few hot sunny days (good reason to keep the Willoughby in running condition)
4. There are going to be a lot of bottlenecks around the mid lodge (if the lift terminal were in the old parking lot the speeds of people skiing around the lodge would probably be lower).
5. Now the lift ride will be 15 seconds longer :razz:


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> Thanks NEK, nice pics.
> 
> Can someone remind me how this is such an incredible ungrade.



No prob. I do it to help me wrap my head around how it is going to change the physics of the mtn.

Incredible upgrade = More repeat skier visits :idea:

The main knock against Burke from the casual skier (doesn't include the major demographic on AZ) is the SLLOOWWW lift to the summit. Fast lift = "I will come back"


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> 5. Now the lift ride will be 15 seconds longer :razz:


 
Well, if it is an HSQ that can do about 1,000 fpm or so (on average if not faster), then we are looking at a 6 minute ride or so.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, if it is an HSQ that can do about 1,000 fpm or so (on average if not faster), then we are looking at a 6 minute ride or so.



15 sec longer than having the base terminal up where the parking lot is


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## kingdom-tele (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> No prob. I do it to help me wrap my head around how it is going to change the physics of the mtn.
> 
> Incredible upgrade = More repeat skier visits :idea:
> 
> The main knock against Burke from the casual skier (doesn't include the major demographic on AZ) is the SLLOOWWW lift to the summit. Fast lift = "I will come back"




Thanks.

If someone could ski 25 runs off the "slow" lift and still stand up right at the end of the day then I think the HSQ would be necessary.

Not that I or the other probable 10 people skiing on Monday next year care,  just means our ski day will end at the bar at 2 vs. 3 due to my legs being shot.:smile:


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> Thanks.
> 
> If someone could ski 25 runs off the "slow" lift and still stand up right at the end of the day then I think the HSQ would be necessary.



It's been done and it hurts :grin:



> Not that I or the other probable 10 people skiing on Monday next year care,  just means our ski day will end at the bar at 2 vs. 3 due to my legs being shot.:smile:



This is true. As long as they run the HSQ for the ten people :smile:


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> This is true. As long as they run the HSQ for the ten people :smile:


 
Hey now....with the new HSQ there will be 15 people on a Monday, that is a 50% increase! :lol: 

Part of the materials in that file included the mountain's skier days for the past few years. You will notice that they actually have not gotten back to 2002-2003 numbers. They've come close, but still they are down.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Skier Visit Data Exhbit 5(c).pdf


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## skiatomic (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Hey now....with the new HSQ there will be 15 people on a Monday, that is a 50% increase! :lol:
> 
> Part of the materials in that file included the mountain's skier days for the past few years. You will notice that they actually have not gotten back to 2002-2003 numbers. They've come close, but still they are down.
> 
> http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Skier Visit Data Exhbit 5(c).pdf



What are the number of skier visits at peak in 2002-2003 for Burke?  The Graph didn't have a scale, sorry.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Hey now....with the new HSQ there will be 15 people on a Monday, that is a 50% increase! :lol:
> 
> Part of the materials in that file included the mountain's skier days for the past few years. You will notice that they actually have not gotten back to 2002-2003 numbers. They've come close, but still they are down.
> 
> http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Skier Visit Data Exhbit 5(c).pdf



I saw that as well. I'm guessing the graph lines are broken at 10,000 visits. That would put this year at roughly 42,000 visits. 2002-03 was just over 50,000.

In comparison, according to their website, Okemo did 480,000 visits in 1994-95. And everyone still asks if we are serious when we talk about no liftlines at Burke


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I saw that as well. I'm guessing the graph lines are broken at 10,000 visits. That would put this year at roughly 42,000 visits. 2002-03 was just over 50,000.
> 
> In comparison, according to their website, Okemo did 480,000 visits in 1994-95.


 
I would guess more like 20k per line (interesting that they don't give the numbers!). I say that because IIRC I have heard that they do about 75-100k per year and most years just below 100k. I could be wrong....

Remember that Magic was doing about 16k in 2008-2009 and that was almost nothing.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I would guess more like 20k per line (interesting that they don't give the numbers!). I say that because IIRC I have heard that they do about 75-100k per year and most years just below 100k. I could be wrong....
> 
> Remember that Magic was doing about 16k in 2008-2009 and that was almost nothing.



Not giving the breakdown leads to crappy speculation 

A 20K breakdown would make me feel a bit better about their finances. :razz: Roughly 1/6 of Okemo's skier visits sounds about right.


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## kingdom-tele (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> It's been done and it hurts :grin:



I know.  1x a year it works out that we ski with a few of those crazy people, good for 4 laps and I have to start waving my white flag. fortunately it leaves us with 7 hours of relaxing ski time

wonder what the record will be with a HSQ going in

should be an interesting lift line run at least, there are some nice ledges through skiers left on doug's

maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons

Mt biking should be interesting with them stringing lift cables and blowing up the mountain


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## roark (Apr 21, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons


 But that's the best part of a slow chair vs a HS... time to enjoy a beverage! :beer:


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## thetrailboss (Apr 21, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons


 
I was going to suggest that they have a ski through portion of the bar.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

roark said:


> But that's the best part of a slow chair vs a HS... time to enjoy a beverage! :beer:



Chug. chug. chug!



thetrailboss said:


> I was going to suggest that they have a ski through portion of the bar.



That would help with having to ski around the lodge :beer:


----------



## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> I know.  1x a year it works out that we ski with a few of those crazy people, good for 4 laps and I have to start waving my white flag. fortunately it leaves us with 7 hours of relaxing ski time
> 
> wonder what the record will be with a HSQ going in
> 
> ...



I did the 25 run thing once back when I had a pass on a icy groomer day. 13 minutes up, 2.5 - 3 down, with a few breaks thrown in.

The lift line should be fun and hopefully narrow. It looks a bit wider above the lowest Toll Road crossing, then it looks to be pretty narrow the rest of the way down.

Yeah, the blasting is probably going to have an limited affect on mtn biking on the upper mtn. However, I don't see that they would need to do a lot of blasting. But in the long run it could open up lift served biking to the summit.


----------



## skiatomic (Apr 21, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I would guess more like 20k per line (interesting that they don't give the numbers!). I say that because IIRC I have heard that they do about 75-100k per year and most years just below 100k. I could be wrong....
> 
> Remember that Magic was doing about 16k in 2008-2009 and that was almost nothing.



20k per line on the chart seems a bit more feasible, especially dropping that kind of dough on this type of upgrade.

...they better sell some condos to support this puppy.

Might be a reaction to Jay's grand plans.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Apr 21, 2011)

skiatomic said:


> Might be a reaction to Jay's grand plans.



No, at least not specifically Jay. A HSQ to the summit of Burke has been on one drawing board or another for a LONG time. Before any of Jay's big plans were a twinkle in Bill's eye. Things just move a bit slower without all that EB-5 money.
But there is some truth to needing to upgrade to stay in the game.


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> But there is some truth to needing to upgrade to *get* in the game.


Fixed it for you. 

One interesting item on the plans is the proposed cut back trail from East Bowl to the new HSQ which is lower than the current traverse back. Check out the topo lines on that proposed trail  I am not sure there is a bigger double fall line trail in existence any where, especially a traverse trail. That is just whacked. I understand the need for condo access and for trail access from all directions. But the current Mi-Burke parking lot should be plenty low enough. You don't need low East Bowl access if they plan on putting a lift up the East Bowl, most folks are just going to take the lift up to get back to the base or mid-Burke rather than traverse (even without an uphill). Perhaps more expensive but it certainly would make more sense to have a short condo lift to shuttle folks up. 

On the flip side, there aren't many major resorts with HSQs at the base of all their major condo pods and this setup will mean Burke will have two HSQs servicing slopeside real estate.

The only question remains, if it is built, will they come?


----------



## kingdom-tele (Apr 21, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> The only question remains, if it is built, will they come?



doubtful.

I'm sure it will enhance skier numbers and that is great for burke.  but lets face it, burke isn't on the same radar as people being "raised jay" or skiing above treeline chutes at stowe, or back bowls at smuggs, etc - people who ski based on magazine pictures and marketing hooplah will continue to drive by.  god knows side slipping pumphouse chute at J sure sounds a lot cooler at the bar later than skiing untracked knee deep pow down a moderate angle trail at 3:30


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 21, 2011)

From what I saw, Burke makes up for lack of steeps with plenty of significant cliffs to huck if 'extreme' is your thing.


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## riverc0il (Apr 21, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> From what I saw, Burke makes up for lack of steeps with plenty of significant cliffs to huck if 'extreme' is your thing.


Not really, there are some but not many. I am the type of skier kingdom-tele describes in action if not in spirit (i.e. minus the side slipping and bragging in the bar bits). I drive past Burke all the time because they don't have technical terrain that the Spine of the Greens offers. But I also drive past because they don't get as much snow. But I love the place and get there as often as possible. But if you want more technically orientated terrain, nothing at Burke compares to the ridges at Mansfield or Jay or the more techy stuff at Smuggs and Mad River. I love all that NoVT has to offer and spread my love around. There is a TON to love about Burke but extreme is not one of those things. And that is okay.


----------



## troy (Apr 21, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> The more I think about how low they are putting the lift base, the less I like it over having it where the parking lot is.
> 
> *Pros: *
> 1. Better access for a few condos
> ...



will it be low enough so there wont be no more run-off from east bowl?  and more importantly does your boss know you post on the internet all day?


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 21, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Not really, there are some but not many. I am the type of skier kingdom-tele describes in action if not in spirit (i.e. minus the side slipping and bragging in the bar bits). I drive past Burke all the time because they don't have technical terrain that the Spine of the Greens offers. But I also drive past because they don't get as much snow. But I love the place and get there as often as possible. But if you want more technically orientated terrain, nothing at Burke compares to the ridges at Mansfield or Jay or the more techy stuff at Smuggs and Mad River. I love all that NoVT has to offer and spread my love around. There is a TON to love about Burke but extreme is not one of those things. And that is okay.



Fair enough

Mind you I've only skied the marked stuff.  I saw a few 10ish footers and one that looked to be near 20 right in the marked glades.  You don't really see on map stuff like that on Mansfield or Jay.  Off map? sure and much bigger if you want it.

Mansfield range definitely has the far more technical terrain.  There's good reason FIS, Meatheads, etc, have so much footage from in there.  It's definitely the reason Mt. Mansfield is my favorite place to ski in the east.

However, I also think I'm just getting older and much more mellow these days. :lol:.   Past couple of seasons I've enjoyed the low angle stuff as much as I do more technical terrain.  Think perhaps its that I've pushed my limits plenty throughout my ski 'career'.  Unlike a decade ago, I don't feel like I need to nail a steep technical chute every time out in order to have fun.


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 21, 2011)

There are a few good sized cliffs in and around the lower glades the dump out onto East Bowl traverse. Just not a huge amount. And nothing excessively challenging else where on the mountain. Though there are a few rather tight nasty tree lines that can be a bear in poor conditions.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (Apr 21, 2011)

*Burkes Newest Old Lift?*

I saw the Burke Act 250 thread and remembered I heard this on the radio today, the Valley News out of Lebanon had the printed version.  I know the potential for this happening has been discussed for sometime, but this is the latest.

http://www.vnews.com/04212011/7763297.htm


----------



## kingdom-tele (Apr 22, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Not really, there are some but not many. I am the type of skier kingdom-tele describes in action if not in spirit (i.e. minus the side slipping and bragging in the bar bits). I drive past Burke all the time because they don't have technical terrain that the Spine of the Greens offers. But I also drive past because they don't get as much snow. But I love the place and get there as often as possible. But if you want more technically orientated terrain, nothing at Burke compares to the ridges at Mansfield or Jay or the more techy stuff at Smuggs and Mad River. I love all that NoVT has to offer and spread my love around. There is a TON to love about Burke but extreme is not one of those things. And that is okay.



Riv - I was saying more in jest.  spending anythime in the tram at J will give you access to some of the most hardcore skiers in the east per their report:roll:

what burke lacks in pitch, exposure, powder, edginess, it makes up for in simpleness (is that a word?), solitude, and snow preservation.  if you like those things you'll like burke.  if your going there expecting 20 jump turns down a 8' chute over and over again you probably won't

I just go because its one of the last places I can still drink beer from a plastic cup


----------



## from_the_NEK (Apr 22, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I saw the Burke Act 250 thread and remembered I heard this on the radio today, the Valley News out of Lebanon had the printed version.  I know the potential for this happening has been discussed for sometime, but this is the latest.
> 
> http://www.vnews.com/04212011/7763297.htm



It is a sad story at Ascutney :sad:. The crazy thing is Burke barely avoided the same liquidation fate 11 years ago.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Apr 22, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> One interesting item on the plans is the proposed cut back trail from East Bowl to the new HSQ which is lower than the current traverse back. Check out the topo lines on that proposed trail  I am not sure there is a bigger double fall line trail in existence any where, especially a traverse trail. That is just whacked. I understand the need for condo access and for trail access from all directions. But the current Mi-Burke parking lot should be plenty low enough. You don't need low East Bowl access if they plan on putting a lift up the East Bowl, most folks are just going to take the lift up to get back to the base or mid-Burke rather than traverse (even without an uphill). Perhaps more expensive but it certainly would make more sense to have a short condo lift to shuttle folks up.
> 
> The only question remains, if it is built, will they come?



That strange double falline trail is in the master plan as the connector from the top of the Owl Peak lift pod that was planned to serve the main resort complex that was to be built where the Old Cutter Inn is located on Pinkham Rd. See the trail marked "C7" in this map.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13/Burke.Act250app.Exhibit1E(d)-1.PDF

I don't think we'll see of of that roll out anytime soon :smile:


----------



## troy (Apr 23, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> Riv - I was saying more in jest.  spending anythime in the tram at J will give you access to some of the most hardcore skiers in the east per their report:roll:
> 
> what burke lacks in pitch, exposure, powder, edginess, it makes up for in simpleness (is that a word?), solitude, and snow preservation.  if you like those things you'll like burke.  if your going there expecting 20 jump turns down a 8' chute over and over again you probably won't
> 
> I just go because its one of the last places I can still drink beer from a plastic cup



with this new lift burke will keep on getting customers from jay peak for sure.  jay is a zoo and the extra few inches jay gets hardly make it worth the hassle spending good amount of your day in lift line with a bunch of canadians.  only rivercoil and his alpine zone friends could care but 99% of skiers/ riders rather have an enoyable day in a technical and diverse mt like burke than mob scene @ j with pretty much the same terrain and two extra inches of snow.   plus jay is the biggest liar there is when reporting snow, everybdy knows it.  burke could make their snow total 50% more if they used the jay stick.  not sure why burke under reports but they do.  jay and stowe on the other hand have a lot at stake and if the economy takes another dive they would have hoped they stayed nimble.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 23, 2011)

extra few inches per storm over the course of the season adds up to quite a lot.

same terrain?  really?

amusing post.  you trash Jay and Stowe for their exaggerations with some pretty heavy exaggerating yourself.


----------



## troy (Apr 23, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> extra few inches per storm over the course of the season adds up to quite a lot.
> 
> same terrain?  really?
> 
> amusing post.  you trash Jay and Stowe for their exaggerations with some pretty heavy exaggerating yourself.




yeah they add up but you wont ski on them cuz its a mob scene, plus jay lies so you never know.  they say oh we got 6-14 inches and then they count the 14 for their season total and peeps like you fall for it, right.  to me the terrain is very similar, infact burkes glades are better than stowe and pretty much the same as j.  this is my opinion not an exaggeration, if you dont like you know what 2 do deadhead.


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 23, 2011)

I like Burke a lot.  9 times out of 10 on a weekend, I'd take it over Jay and Stowe due to the crowding you speak of.

That said, the terrain at Burke doesn't come CLOSE to what's on Mansfield or Jay.  Both are two to three times the size of Burke when you count slack country.  Burke isn't in the same league in terms of steeps. They do indeed get significantly more snow than Burke and hold onto their base much longer due to elevation difference.  

and you're right, I'm a total sucker when it comes to snow reports.  

and your wording was they have pretty much the same terrain.  That IS an exaggeration.  You can like the terrain more and that's fine and would be your opinion.  But saying the terrain is the same is completely false.


----------



## riverc0il (Apr 23, 2011)

troy said:


> with this new lift burke will keep on getting customers from jay peak for sure.  jay is a zoo and the extra few inches jay gets hardly make it worth the hassle spending good amount of your day in lift line with a bunch of canadians.  only rivercoil and his alpine zone friends could care but 99% of skiers/ riders rather have an enoyable day in a technical and diverse mt like burke than mob scene @ j with pretty much the same terrain and two extra inches of snow.   plus jay is the biggest liar there is when reporting snow, everybdy knows it.  burke could make their snow total 50% more if they used the jay stick.  not sure why burke under reports but they do.  jay and stowe on the other hand have a lot at stake and if the economy takes another dive they would have hoped they stayed nimble.


It is kind of amusing having that type of response thrown at me considering I have been an online Burke homer since I first skied there almost ten years ago. So you are preaching to the choir. Yet I also am a former season pass holder at Jay. But I play the field now. So I get quite familiar with a lot of different mountains and what makes each of them special in their own special way.

Calling Jay a "zoo" is pretty subjective (and perhaps relative to your experience with different areas, I have reassessed my definition of a zoo this season after having skied Mount Snow and Okemo). Suggesting that Jay and Burke are equivalent in snow totals if they "used the same ruler" is ridiculous and suggests vendetta or agenda or both. Look at the snow totals from last year as an example of the difference. Comparing Burke to Jay in regards to snowfall totals does no favors to public perception of Burke, that is not what makes Burke a special mountain.

I don't really see Jay and Burke competing much for skier visits. So even with a HSQ, Burke may steal a few visits from Jay. But Jay is already likely bumping visits due to its own enhancements. Very much a different market. Burke is much more likely to steal visits from Boston metro I-93 types along with some ME, RI, and CT. I don't see Burke being too competitive in the Montreal, Burlington, or NYC/Jersey markets even with the new lift. One thing is for sure though... they will need to get rid of that five minute guarantee on weekends and the mountain is going to feel a lot more crowded with a HSQ. People will come/return for it.


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## riverc0il (Apr 23, 2011)

troy said:


> to me the terrain is very similar, infact burkes glades are better than stowe and pretty much the same as j.  this is my opinion not an exaggeration, if you dont like you know what 2 do deadhead.


Burke's terrain is definitely not similar to either Jay or Stowe. But I do enjoy Burke's in boundary glades more than Stowe's in boundary glades. With Jay vs Burke on glades, it depends on the snow. If Burke has the snow, I do enjoy Burke's glades overall better than Jay's. But the problem there is Burke's glades can be crusty when Jay's are PP due to the snowfall difference (a fact). So it depends on conditions for me.

Why the hostility? Can't share your opinion and debate the pros and cons without telling someone what to do?

:dunce:


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## RootDKJ (Apr 23, 2011)

Burke thread is heating up like a Killington thread


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 25, 2011)

RootDKJ said:


> Burke thread is heating up like a Killington thread



Does that mean there has to be a ski off?


----------



## RootDKJ (Apr 25, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Does that mean there has to be a ski off?



Dunno.  We might have to consult the voodoo lady.


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## kingdom-tele (Apr 25, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Does that mean there has to be a ski off?



In the spirit of Burke though - the ski off should also include a drink off immediately following the ski off :smile:


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## Masskier (Apr 27, 2011)

Finally an article in today's Caledonian Record


----------



## from_the_NEK (Apr 29, 2011)

5 Minute photochop of the new liftline:  :smile:







Note this was what Burke looked like closing day.


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## RootDKJ (Apr 29, 2011)

Why is the liftline in the middle of the parking lot?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 29, 2011)

RootDKJ said:


> Why is the liftline in the middle of the parking lot?


 
Take a look at the plan.  They are moving some of the parking lot and putting the base of the new HSQ in the field below MidBurke.


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## from_the_NEK (Apr 29, 2011)

RootDKJ said:


> Why is the liftline in the middle of the parking lot?



Drive-in drive-out access


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## RootDKJ (Apr 29, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Drive-in drive-out access


Nice! :idea: :beer:


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## Zand (Apr 30, 2011)

Still sad that they're taking away a good glade (both next to upper Warren's as well as Little Chief) but it'll be worth it in the end if this is the extent of what they do. Also would make a nice new liftline and I bet some lines will open up in the woods on either side anyway. And 7 less minutes on the lift sounds good too.


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## troy (Apr 30, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Finally an article in today's Caledonian Record



I can't find it, do you have a link?.  That publication is a joke btw.


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## Masskier (Apr 30, 2011)

troy said:


> I can't find it, do you have a link?.  That publication is a joke btw.



You have to subscribe to the on-line version of the paper in order to read it.


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## thetrailboss (May 6, 2011)

According to the *Act 250 database*, the project has been approved.  

Can anyone confirm if work is beginning?  This is a big deal for Burke and Burke skiers and the realization of a dream that is decades in the making!


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## from_the_NEK (May 6, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> According to the *Act 250 database*, the project has been approved.
> 
> Can anyone confirm if work is beginning?  This is a big deal for Burke and Burke skiers and the realization of a dream that is decades in the making!



I noticed the approval as well so I took a drive up yesterday afternoon. No ground breaking or tree cutting work had started from what I could see since the mtn was shrouded in clouds from the CCC road on up. However, there were a couple of stakes and pieces of survey tape on the lower side of the mid-burke parking lot where the lift line will be.


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## Masskier (May 6, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I noticed the approval as well so I took a drive up yesterday afternoon. No ground breaking or tree cutting work had started from what I could see since the mtn was shrouded in clouds from the CCC road on up. However, there were a couple of stakes and pieces of survey tape on the lower side of the mid-burke parking lot where the lift line will be.



They started clearing the lift line the end of last week.  above 2500 ft,


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## jaytrem (May 7, 2011)

Anybody know if the lift is going in this summer or next?


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## thetrailboss (May 7, 2011)

jaytrem said:


> Anybody know if the lift is going in this summer or next?


 
All indications are this summer.


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## Masskier (May 7, 2011)

jaytrem said:


> Anybody know if the lift is going in this summer or next?




This summer,  Next summer is not an option.  There are other plans for next summer.


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## UVSHTSTRM (May 7, 2011)

Masskier said:


> This summer,  Next summer is not an option.  There are other plans for next summer.



Whats next summer?


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## Masskier (May 8, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Whats next summer?




With out going into specifics.  If the economy continues to improve and there is demand, there will be reasonable and smart improvements,- upgrades made almost on an annual basis for several years.  This summer will be the busiest for them since 2005.


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## thetrailboss (May 8, 2011)

Masskier said:


> With out going into specifics. If the economy continues to improve and there is demand, there will be reasonable and smart improvements,- upgrades made almost on an annual basis for several years. This summer will be the busiest for them since 2005.


 
Could you be anymore vague than that?  :lol:


----------



## psyflyer (May 9, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> According to the *Act 250 database*, the project has been approved.
> 
> Can anyone confirm if work is beginning?  This is a big deal for Burke and Burke skiers and the realization of a dream that is decades in the making!



Confirmed!  While jogging on the triple C rode I saw them clearing in the bushes above me next to the poma.  When I got down to the mid Burke area I saw a mountain operator friend and he told me they are clearing to make space for the lift.  He mentioned everything should be signed, sealed and delivered within the next two weeks.  Awesome!
:beer:


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## psyflyer (May 9, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Finally an article in today's Caledonian Record



Here is another one:

http://www.news7newslinc.net/burke/high-speed-chairlift-burke-052011


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## thetrailboss (May 9, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> Here is another one:
> 
> http://www.news7newslinc.net/burke/high-speed-chairlift-burke-052011


 

Way to go Channel 7!  I miss LSC news.  They do some good work.  

And look at all that snow.  

I'd assume that upgrading/expanding snowmaking to handle the increase in traffic is part of the plan.  Honestly if they ran a line up Doug's Drop (McHarg's or Lower Dougs to Doug's) and another up Dipper Doodle -> Lew's Leap -> Powderhorn -> Wilderness, they'd be in great shape.


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## riverc0il (May 9, 2011)

It is pretty eye opening when they spell out the time difference of 14 down to 5 minutes (there was a little exaggerating in that video with 15 mentioned a few times, but not so much an exaggeration if the lift stops for any length of time). I think they need to do their research on new HSQ prices. 3M-10M? I think they could narrow that price range down a little bit by focusing on new HSQs rather than any new lift. But it isn't pretty much common knowledge at this point that they are getting Ascutney's HSQ? No reportage on that? They should have done some research on AZ. LOL. Okay, I guess it is still not confirmed fact ready for prime time news.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 10, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Way to go Channel 7!  I miss LSC news.  They do some good work.
> 
> .



Those chairs are going to be GIGANTIC.  6200 square feet.  :lol:


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## thetrailboss (May 10, 2011)

I agree that the price issue was not handled well.  Nor the "20 terminal" piece.  But I give them kudos for going up there, interviewing Joe, and getting the story out there.


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## Masskier (May 11, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> Here is another one:
> 
> http://www.news7newslinc.net/burke/high-speed-chairlift-burke-052011



Thanks for the Link


----------



## thetrailboss (May 11, 2011)

OK, now *this is weird.*



> The owners are also selling various pieces of equipment and some real estate. An official at the Burke Mountain Resort confirmed that that resort has been talking with *Ascutney about buying the high-speed lift, but no deal has been reached*.


 
:blink:


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## UVSHTSTRM (May 11, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> OK, now *this is weird.*
> 
> 
> 
> :blink:



What's weird, this has been in discussion for a while, right?  The weird thing to me is from what I have been reading on this forum is that Burke is installing a lift this summer, is this correct?  If so the lift to be installed was this lift from ascutney correct or was it suppose to be a brand new lift?  If it is the Ascutney lift, I don't see how this thing could be installed this summer.


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## thetrailboss (May 11, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> What's weird, this has been in discussion for a while, right? The weird thing to me is from what I have been reading on this forum is that Burke is installing a lift this summer, is this correct? If so the lift to be installed was this lift from ascutney correct or was it suppose to be a brand new lift? If it is the Ascutney lift, I don't see how this thing could be installed this summer.


 
What I was referring to was the fact that Burke is cutting a lift line and beginning work, but has apparently not finalized the purchase of the Ascutney lift.  So it is not clear as to what, if anything, will be installed!


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## jimmywilson69 (May 11, 2011)

maybe they couldn't wait and bought a new one and the Ascutney one will be a future replacement of another lift.   It sounds like the assets of Ascutney will be tied up for a while.


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## from_the_NEK (May 11, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> OK, now *this is weird.*
> 
> :blink:



I still haven't heard anything official on this purchase. So even though they are working on the new lift line, I'm still not 100% sure there will actually be a lift to be installed there by next winter. Maybe they have a contingency plan to buy an brand new lift if the Ascutney deal falls through.


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## riverc0il (May 11, 2011)

Well, as a buyer, I certainly wouldn't want to start cutting a new liftline prior to making a deal with the seller. Cutting a liftline would suggest to the seller that the buyer is already committed and could lead the seller to extract a higher price. Either the article is incorrect, Burke is getting a new HSQ, or Burke is planning a contingency for a new lift if the Ascutney deal does not go through and knows it will install a HSQ this summer no matter what.

How late can a deal on a HSQ happen from the manufacturer? Probably depends on how many other installs are already scheduled?


----------



## threecy (May 11, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Well, as a buyer, I certainly wouldn't want to start cutting a new liftline prior to making a deal with the seller. Cutting a liftline would suggest to the seller that the buyer is already committed and could lead the seller to extract a higher price. Either the article is incorrect, Burke is getting a new HSQ, or Burke is planning a contingency for a new lift if the Ascutney deal does not go through and knows it will install a HSQ this summer no matter what.
> 
> How late can a deal on a HSQ happen from the manufacturer? Probably depends on how many other installs are already scheduled?



My guess is they probably had a P&S on the lift that has been delayed or has fallen through.  With the situation at Ascutney, the lift probably has liens on it, thus making any sort of transaction a slow, risky process.

I'm not sure what Poma or Doppelmayr require for lead time on an HSQ (March can be considered too late for a FGQ), but if Burke attempted to order a brand new lift tomorrow, they'd likely pay a premium to get it for this year.


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## UVSHTSTRM (May 11, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> What I was referring to was the fact that Burke is cutting a lift line and beginning work, but has apparently not finalized the purchase of the Ascutney lift.  So it is not clear as to what, if anything, will be installed!



Gotcha, totally agree.


----------



## UVSHTSTRM (May 11, 2011)

Masskier said:


> This summer,  Next summer is not an option.  There are other plans for next summer.



Well they better get a move on.


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## Masskier (May 12, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Well they better get a move on.




They started last week and are moving full speed ahead.


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## thetrailboss (May 12, 2011)

Masskier said:


> They started last week and are moving full speed ahead.


 
With which lift?  A new lift or the retrofitted Ascutney lift?


----------



## threecy (May 12, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> With which lift?  A new lift or the retrofitted Ascutney lift?



I suspect we'll see news articles if/when the Ascutney lift is removed.

They won't need a lift on site until the fall - a significant portion of the install process is prepping the lift line and pouring footings.

Even if they close on the Ascutney lift, I suspect they'd need to make significant modifications, as it is smaller than the 6,200 lift being proposed.


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 12, 2011)

threecy said:


> I suspect we'll see news articles if/when the Ascutney lift is removed.



Most likely. I've been trying to follow the Upper Valley news outlets for such a story.



threecy said:


> They won't need a lift on site until the fall - a significant portion of the install process is prepping the lift line and pouring footings.



Although waiting too late in the fall to get the top station installed may lead to difficulties with the weather.



threecy said:


> Even if they close on the Ascutney lift, I suspect they'd need to make significant modifications, as it is smaller than the 6,200 lift being proposed



The Ascutney lift is around 5,365 ft. making the lift line 835 feet longer means they would have to splice in 1670 feet of new haul rope. Other than that, I'm assuming they would need a couple of new towers (and maybe some more chairs) to cover the added length as well. Are there other "significant" mods that would have to be done?


Let's start a list of names for this thing...

I'll start:
"WALE" = Was Ascutney's Lift Express
"Not North Peak Express"
"TNFWTTT" = The NEW Fast Way To The Top
"Finally! Flyer"
"Laurelmor Lightning"


More seriously now
"Kingdom Flyer"
"NEK Express"
"Summit Direct"


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 12, 2011)

"Darling Express"
"NEK Flash"


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## deadheadskier (May 12, 2011)

Pow Killer Express :razz:


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## thetrailboss (May 12, 2011)

I would imagine a completely new haul rope will be used.  

As for names:  

* Dixi's Dream;
* OMG There Are Footrests!
* McFlurry
* Ginn's Giddy Up
* Olympic View
* Doug's Destroyer


OK....

East Side
Hubbard's Express
Caledonia
Powderhorn


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## UVSHTSTRM (May 12, 2011)

New Lift Names:

The Not So New Lift

AHOLE (Ascutney's Heap of Old Leftover Equipment)

The hey this lift is actually ten years old, so does this mean we get a new one in 10 years instead of twenty? Lift.


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## UVSHTSTRM (May 12, 2011)

Masskier said:


> They started last week and are moving full speed ahead.



What happens if Ascutney, the lawyers, and owners can't agree or complete an agreement on the sale of the lift?  I am guessing Burke wouldn't be moving forward if they didn't have some sort of assurance, or would they?

Also you said they have to do it this year because next year is going to be out of the question, well if that is the case what becomes of the liftline they are cutting now?


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## threecy (May 13, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> The Ascutney lift is around 5,365 ft. making the lift line 835 feet longer means they would have to splice in 1670 feet of new haul rope. Other than that, I'm assuming they would need a couple of new towers (and maybe some more chairs) to cover the added length as well. Are there other "significant" mods that would have to be done?



That's a good question...I'm no expert on detachable lifts.

The vertical drop of the Burke layout would be about the same as the current Ascutney layout, so in theory the drive could handle it (700HP).  That said, I believe it was mentioned the lift was underpowered and thus ran slower than most HSQs.

Towers shouldn't be a problem - heck, Burke reused double chair towers for their other HSQ.  Unless they plan to run the lift like the Ragged HS6, then they'd need to purchase more chairs.

In regard to cable, I know that areas are now allowed to splice additional cable into a haul rope for fixed grip lifts, so I suspect they may be able to splice that into a hypothetical lift.


It does seem very late in the season to not have some sort of deal and/or announcement in place.  It's certainly not unprecedented to have a ski area cut a lift line and not install a lift right away.  Surely one would think Burke would be singing from the mountaintops by now if the HSQ was a done deal for this season, merely on the basis to spur season pass sales and generate off season cash flow.


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## thetrailboss (May 13, 2011)

threecy said:


> The vertical drop of the Burke layout would be about the same as the current Ascutney layout, so in theory the drive could handle it (700HP). That said, I believe it was mentioned the lift was underpowered and thus ran slower than most HSQs.


 
The reason why Ascutney was not running it full speed was that they did not spend the money to bring it to state code to run it full speed.  It had nothing to do with the drive being underpowered.  



> Towers shouldn't be a problem - heck, Burke reused double chair towers for their other HSQ. Unless they plan to run the lift like the Ragged HS6, then they'd need to purchase more chairs.


 
The Willoughby Quad was built in 1988-1989 and utilizes the Hall pylons from the 1966 lift, albeit reinforced.  

The Sherburne, which is a Poma Leitner, utilized the Hall Double-double pylons.  



> It does seem very late in the season to not have some sort of deal and/or announcement in place. It's certainly not unprecedented to have a ski area cut a lift line and not install a lift right away. Surely one would think Burke would be singing from the mountaintops by now if the HSQ was a done deal for this season, merely on the basis to spur season pass sales and generate off season cash flow.


 
Yes, this is very odd.  But then again when they installed the Sherburne, which was part of the Ginn sale, they waited until June to make it known officially.  But that was a much tamer install than this one will be.


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## threecy (May 13, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> The reason why Ascutney was not running it full speed was that they did not spend the money to bring it to state code to run it full speed.  It had nothing to do with the drive being underpowered.



What part of the code was it not up to?


----------



## thetrailboss (May 13, 2011)

threecy said:


> What part of the code was it not up to?


 
My understanding was that the lift did not have the sufficient tensioning or sensor systems (this was an add on).  As a result, the state issued a conditional license and capped the speed of the lift.  There has been a discussion in here about that.  It was not because of the size or hp of the drive.


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## thetrailboss (May 13, 2011)

More specific information from last year's Ascutney thread:  

[quote="mountainman]The HSQ could only run at 600 fpm, due to some issues that were not taken care of when installed. There is no electricity at the top of the lift and we had to run a generator to get the lift up and running. It took some time to even get that lift pre-op.[/quote]


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## threecy (May 13, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> My understanding was that the lift did not have the sufficient tensioning or sensor systems (this was an add on).  As a result, the state issued a conditional license and capped the speed of the lift.  There has been a discussion in here about that.  It was not because of the size or hp of the drive.





thetrailboss said:


> More specific information from last year's Ascutney thread:



That's what I had remembered posted (I had said 'underpowered' as opposed to not having enough HP - 700HP should be in theory enough for that size).  Interestingly enough, I don't recall that lift operating that slow when I rode it.


----------



## ceo (May 13, 2011)

So the Sherburne quad runs on one side of the old double-double towers, like its predecessor? Or did they replace the crossarms with conventional ones?


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## riverc0il (May 13, 2011)

ceo said:


> So the Sherburne quad runs on one side of the old double-double towers, like its predecessor? Or did they replace the crossarms with conventional ones?


No, the double double towers were removed.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 13, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> No, the double double towers were removed.


 
Actually the pylons were used, but new cross arms were installed.


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 14, 2011)

The new lift line has been cut. Top to bottom. They kept it pretty narrow. Looks like the trees were cut and piled by a harvester. Now they can remove the downed trees at their leisure, even into the Bicknell's Thrush nesting season.
Now the 3 or 8 million $ question is what lift is going  actually going to go in there?


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## kingdom-tele (May 14, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> The new lift line has been cut. Top to bottom. They kept it pretty narrow. Looks like the trees were cut and piled by a harvester. Now they can remove the downed trees at their leisure, even into the Bicknell's Thrush nesting season.
> Now the 3 or 8 million $ question is what lift is going  actually going to go in there?



NEK -did you see who they hired to do the cutting?


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 14, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> NEK -did you see who they hired to do the cutting?



There was only a silver Harvester near the Groomer garage. I didn't notice if it had a name on it. They did some quick work in some steep terrain. It was hard to tell how successful they were at keeping the stumps short. 
Unfortunately I forgot my camera this morning but I think my above photochop is actually pretty accurate as to what the lift line looks like.


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## riverc0il (May 14, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> The new lift line has been cut.


Still hard to believe!


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 19, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Still hard to believe!



I'm going to try to get some pics this afternoon if the cloud deck is high enough.


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## threecy (May 19, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I'm going to try to get some pics this afternoon if the cloud deck is high enough.



Hah!  I thought I saw the sun yesterday for the first time in about a week, but then realized I was staring at the refrigerator light.


----------



## from_the_NEK (May 20, 2011)

Well yesterday the clouds broke and the sun came out. So I was able to get some pics. 8)

From the mid-Burke Parking lot:






From the timers shack:





Close-up of the top of the Poma:





The machine:


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## deadheadskier (May 20, 2011)

Is the intention for the lift line to be skiable?


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## from_the_NEK (May 20, 2011)

I haven't heard one way or the other but I would hope so and I don't see why it wouldn't be other than safety concerns if there are a lot of stumps left.


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## from_the_NEK (May 20, 2011)

Rendering:






Actual Liftline:





Pretty close... It will be interesting what it looks like with towers, chairs, and snow.


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## jimmywilson69 (May 20, 2011)

nice job on the photoshop and the real pictures.  

Now are they getting a new lift or Ascutney's?


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## thetrailboss (May 20, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> nice job on the photoshop and the real pictures.
> 
> Now are they getting a new lift or Ascutney's?


 
They are getting a new liftline! :lol:


----------



## thetrailboss (May 20, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Is the intention for the lift line to be skiable?


 
I'd imagine.


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## riverc0il (May 20, 2011)

Bummer, wish I got to ski that glade one last time last season before the liftline was cut. That was a great tree run. RIP! Given it was already pruned next to the Poma, I can't imagine that will not be a skiable liftline. At least we get a nice liftline in exchange for a great tree shot. Burke has quite a number of both current and former narrow liftline trails! Looks like damage to Doug's was minimal.


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## thetrailboss (May 20, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Bummer, wish I got to ski that glade one last time last season before the liftline was cut. That was a great tree run. RIP! Given it was already pruned next to the Poma, I can't imagine that will not be a skiable liftline. At least we get a nice liftline in exchange for a great tree shot. Burke has quite a number of both current and former narrow liftline trails! Looks like damage to Doug's was minimal.


 
From that vantage point it is odd how narrow Doug's looks and really is!


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## Zand (May 21, 2011)

Not bad... new liftline will be fun. Will miss Warren's Woods and Little Chief but there's plenty of glades up there, losing one is worth taking 7 minutes off the lift ride.


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## from_the_NEK (May 26, 2011)

Looks like I missed this article in the Rutland Herald:

http://www.vermonttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/RH/20110516/BUSINESS/705169981/-1/RBJ

Long story short, still no decision on the Ascutney Quad purchase as of May 16th. I'm assuming some of the hesitation revolves around these quoted numbers.



> $1.55 million for the Ascutney quad or $5 million to $6 million for a new high-speed lift. However, in its calculations Burke would also have to figure the cost of dismantling, transporting and installing the Ascutney quad.



Theoretically if it costs of dismantling, transporting and installing come to another $1.5 million for the 10 year old lift; is it worth doubling the total amount Burke is planning to spend to purchase/install a brand new lift (that would probably carry a more comprehensive warrantee/service package)?

Maybe Ragged ends up with this lift after all


----------



## jimmywilson69 (May 26, 2011)

interesting...  

Can they still order a new lift and have it installed and ready for the 2011-2012 season?  Do they "custom build" the lift motors or are they mostly assemebeled from the same parts?


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## threecy (May 26, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> Can they still order a new lift and have it installed and ready for the 2011-2012 season?



In theory yes, but likely at a premium.  Cannon went to bid for the Mittersill double in May of 2010 and had it operational for New Years.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (May 26, 2011)

So a christmas opening works for Burke, because they are not removing the existing quad, correct?


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## from_the_NEK (May 26, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> So a christmas opening works for Burke, because they are not removing the existing quad, correct?



Correct, the current Willoughby quad services all of the same terrain the new lift would access. Hell they could push completion of the new lift into January or Feb if they needed too (although it would suck to be working on cold metal when it it is -30 in January :-o ). Wintertime construction would have its benefits in that lift tower components could be transported up the mountain by groomers which I would assume is far cheaper than a helicopter.


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## thetrailboss (May 26, 2011)

Interesting.  Time is of the essence.


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## skiatomic (May 26, 2011)

At 3mm for Ascutney lift (assume buy for 1.5mm and dis-assemble, transport, rebuild =1.5mm)...still a good savings if a new one runs 6mm+ range.  Not sure if Burke is flush with cash so that they can disregard that savings.  Not sure anyone in the ski industry should ignore saving cash in general.  Low interest rate loans don't come along in the ski industry to cover over-spending...ask Peak Resorts...

It does seem to be pointing to them buying a "new" lift though, reading between the lines...rather than buying Ascutney's.


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## Masskier (May 26, 2011)

The new lift is schedule to be operational before X'mas


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## from_the_NEK (May 26, 2011)

Masskier said:


> The new lift is schedule to be operational before X'mas



But you have to admit that is something hard to schedule without knowing what they are actually going to install. 
However, you may have better inside info about a potential back-up plan where Burke has been separate talks with a manufacture about securing a brand new lift (that can be installed by Christmas) in the case the Ascutney deal falls through.


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## thetrailboss (May 26, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> But you have to admit that is something hard to schedule without knowing what they are actually going to install.
> However, you may have better inside info about a potential back-up plan where Burke has been separate talks with a manufacture about securing a brand new lift (that can be installed by Christmas) in the case the Ascutney deal falls through.


 
+ 1.  A new lift line has been cut, but the issue is what folks can expect for the lift.


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## riverc0il (May 26, 2011)

Well, worst case scenario is that they cut the lift line but can't install the lift. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. They needed that liftline cut one way or the other and the Willoughby Quad can always spin for another year. They get an extra trail for the new season worst case. So it doesn't absolutely have to happen before the season starts.


----------



## billski (Jun 1, 2011)

*Ascutney not to be sold in pieces.. or not not?*

This report from VPR has some rather contradictory information.

West Windsor Concerned For Mount Ascutney’s Future

Wednesday, 05/11/11 7:34am 

"They feel that they can get more money by selling the ski area as an operating, viable ski area, not to liquidate it. But obviously we have no assurances of that."

"(Keese) The owners are also selling various pieces of equipment and some real estate. An official at the Burke Mountain Resort confirmed that that resort has been talking with Ascutney about buying the high-speed lift, but no deal has been reached. "


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## UVSHTSTRM (Jun 1, 2011)

billski said:


> This report from VPR has some rather contradictory information.
> 
> West Windsor Concerned For Mount Ascutney’s Future
> 
> ...



Think this already has a post on here, discussed a few weeks ago.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 1, 2011)

Stay tuned for my pictures from my hike around Burke this weekend.  The liftline has been cut and is largely as FTN showed us, with trees down, etc.  There are stakes to indicate the center of the line and I was able to find where the base will likely be.  No other real activity...except for the large rebar/bolts that had been delivered for new lift bases.


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## billski (Jun 1, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Think this already has a post on here, discussed a few weeks ago.


Then I won't bring it up again.
 I'll make sure I read through the 1,000 posts I missed.   
So much for engagement and dialog.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 1, 2011)

Burke has not yet responded to this FB inquiry posted on May 15th:  



> So are the rumors true? I heard a trail has already been cut for a new high speed lift to the top being installed this summer?


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 3, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Stay tuned for my pictures from my hike around Burke this weekend.  The liftline has been cut and is largely as FTN showed us, with trees down, etc.  There are stakes to indicate the center of the line and I was able to find where the base will likely be.  No other real activity...except for the large rebar/bolts that had been delivered for new lift bases.



Well that is further along than when I was up there a couple weeks ago. Barely...


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## Sorcerer (Jun 6, 2011)

billski said:


> Then I won't bring it up again.
> I'll make sure I read through the 1,000 posts I missed.
> So much for engagement and dialog.



You can't remember what's in 1000 posts? 8)


----------



## billski (Jun 6, 2011)

Sorcerer said:


> You can't remember what's in 1000 posts? 8)



I can't find my keys, my wallet or my way home.  :blink:  Yet I can find my way to any ski area in the northeast.:roll:


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## Masskier (Jun 9, 2011)

Announcement should be coming very soon.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 9, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Announcement should be coming very soon.



Tease


----------



## Masskier (Jun 9, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Tease



OK,  your right....... The official announcement should be coming out at the beginning of next week.

As you know, Burke spent several months negotiating and doing their due diligence on the Ascutney lift.  Rather recently they decided that a new HSQ would be a better investment and make a stronger statement as to their commitment to transform Buke into a quality midsize year round resort.  So a brand new Poma HSQ will be installed and operational by X'mas.  In addition to the new lift there are also several other improvements that will be made this summer.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 9, 2011)

Masskier said:


> OK, your right....... The official announcement should be coming out at the beginning of next week.
> 
> As you know, Burke spent several months negotiating and doing their due diligence on the Ascutney lift. Rather recently they decided that a new HSQ would be a better investment and make a stronger statement as to their commitment to transform Buke into a quality midsize year round resort.


 
So is this to say that the deal with Ascutney fell through? 



> So a brand new Poma HSQ will be installed and operational by X'mas. In addition to the new lift there are also several other improvements that will be made this summer.


 
Besides regrading Upper Dipper, what else are they doing?


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 9, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> So is this to say that the deal with Ascutney fell through?
> 
> 
> 
> Besides regrading Upper Dipper, what else are they doing?



My guess is one thing they will do will be reconditioning the third (lowest) section of the parking lot near the mid-Burke gate to help handle the loss of the of parking lot near the lodge. Currently it is mostly just grass and kind of overgrown. I would think they would put in some sort of path/bridge between those lots and field where the new lift base is located. Otherwise the condo owners are going to get pissed with all of the people walking through their driveway.

BTW thanks for the update Masskier! During the summer I don't have as much contact with my sources and I get out of the loop a bit


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 9, 2011)

We still haven't decided on a name for this thing or the trail that will be under it.


----------



## billski (Jun 9, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> We still haven't decided on a name for this thing or the trail that will be under it.



  Do what Magic does.  Leave it unmarked for a year, see how it skis and take in all suggestions, g-rated to x-rated...


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 9, 2011)

Trail name = "Wassomeniceglades" or "Long Time Coming" or "Overdew"(sic)

Lift name = "Kingdom Express" (just seems like this name is almost too obvious and using "Kingdom" in naming stuff around here is starting to get overdone).

"NEK Direct" this one kind of rolls off the tongue if you pronounce it "Neck Direct" (again the "NEK" stuff is overdone but sellable [just look at my screen name :wink:])


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 9, 2011)

Other "improvements" ? :razz:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 9, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Other "improvements" ? :razz:


 
I take it that this is a dream rather than reality?


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 9, 2011)

Does Burke have development rights to put in a trail pod over there?  Would be pretty sweet.  Some of the steeper terrain on the mountain no?


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 9, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Does Burke have development rights to put in a trail pod over there? Would be pretty sweet. Some of the steeper terrain on the mountain no?


 
They did have an approved master plan that at one time had development planned for that area, named "West Peak" or "West Bowl." It seems that the focus has turned to the East Bowl and the meadow just above the Cutter.  Previous versions of this map had the full expansion plans with at least two lifts in that meadow, but this map only shows East Bowl and West Bowl expansions:


----------



## Masskier (Jun 10, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> So is this to say that the deal with Ascutney fell through?
> 
> Yes,  They felt a new HSQ was the way to go v's a used one.
> 
> Besides regrading Upper Dipper, what else are they doing?



Upper Dipper may or may not be regraded this year.  In addition of the new HSQ, Some of the other improvements planned for this summer are;  Installation of the summit wind tower, The cutting of 3 more lift accessed mountain biking trails, they already started on the first one,   and a new timing/warming building at the base of the training hill.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 10, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Upper Dipper may or may not be regraded this year. In addition of the new HSQ, Some of the other improvements planned for this summer are; Installation of the summit wind tower, The cutting of 3 more lift accessed mountain biking trails, they already started on the first one, and a new timing/warming building at the base of the training hill.


 
The timing hut has seen better days.  Good improvements otherwise.


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 10, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Other "improvements" ? :razz:



NEK

isn't that area getting small "improvements" every year anyway:grin:


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 10, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> NEK
> 
> isn't that area getting small "improvements" every year anyway:grin:



Shhhh!  :lol:

And yes that map was just a doodle i did in Google Earth. 
Additionally the layout of trails on that old expansion plan trail boss posted makes no sense given the terrain that is over there. It looks like someone just slapped some lines on the trail map and said "we might do something over here".


----------



## DoublePlanker (Jun 10, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Shhhh!  :lol:
> 
> And yes that map was just a doodle i did in Google Earth.
> Additionally the layout of trails on that old expansion plan trail boss posted makes no sense given the terrain that is over there. It looks like someone just slapped some lines on the trail map and said "we might do something over here".



That's a HSP you drew, right?   High speed poma.  I would like some nice narrow trails.


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 10, 2011)

DoublePlanker said:


> That's a HSP you drew, right?   High speed poma.  I would like some nice narrow trails.



I was thinking more along the lines of Tram. That lift line is over 5000' long which is a bit long for a surface lift. Only trails are around the perifery of the bowl, a couple connectors, and the lift line itself. The rest is all glades.


----------



## Masskier (Jun 10, 2011)

Oh,  I meant to mention that unlike the Sherburne express the new HSQ will have a footrest.


----------



## Zand (Jun 11, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Oh,  I meant to mention that unlike the Sherburne express the new HSQ will have a footrest.



Can it have some kind of padding for a backrest too? And a bar that will stay down unlike Willoughby?


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 12, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of Tram. That lift line is over 5000' long which is a bit long for a surface lift. Only trails are around the perifery of the bowl, a couple connectors, and the lift line itself. The rest is all glades.




t bar with a mid station load, keep the half hearted out and allow for runs late season when the bottom half is gone - could name the perimeter trail sunburn


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 12, 2011)

Update:  progress is being made.  The liftline is now clear.  Lots of trees stacked in the parking lot, areas flagged and DIG SAFE done near MidBurke, stakes and areas marked for regrading (presumably) near MidBurke, logging roads made to haul logs out and then reseeded.  Start shack has been cleaned out.  More flags and stakes near the new base.  Pics soon.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 12, 2011)

And a large storage container and skidders are near the ski patrol building.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 13, 2011)

Skilifts.org is confirming that Burke is getting a new HSQ:  

http://www.skilifts.org/forum/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&id=56&record=80


----------



## deadheadskier (Jun 13, 2011)

wonder who will end up with Ascutney's lift


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 13, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Skilifts.org is confirming that Burke is getting a new HSQ:
> 
> http://www.skilifts.org/forum/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&id=56&record=80



Hmmm...

If the name is accurate, with "Willoughby Express" Burke now has two summit lifts with "Wiiloughby" for a name. This could get confusing. Are they going to rename the fixed grip "Willoughby" lift ("Slow Like A Fox" fits  ).

And it is not a replacement lift (unless the submitter "Skier" knows something we don't know).

Will Ragged now end up with Ascutney's lift?

EDIT: Looks like "Skier" is submitter for all installations.


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 13, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> If the name is accurate, with "Willoughby Express" Burke now has two summit lifts with "Wiiloughby" for a name. This could get confusing. Are they going to rename the fixed grip "Willoughby" lift ("Slow Like A Fox" fits  ).
> 
> ...



maybe the old quad could be "sip" and the new one "chug"


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 13, 2011)

:lol:





kingdom-tele said:


> maybe the old quad could be "sip" and the new one "chug"



:lol: I like it!


----------



## Masskier (Jun 13, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> If the name is accurate, with "Willoughby Express" Burke now has two summit lifts with "Wiiloughby" for a name. This could get confusing. Are they going to rename the fixed grip "Willoughby" lift ("Slow Like A Fox" fits  ).
> 
> ...



No,  The new HSQ hasn't been named yet.  In fact they will most likely have a contest to name it.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 13, 2011)

Talk about the quietest, but yet probably one of the most significant, projects this summer! This is happening. The liftline is clear, two skidders on site, and now some other things coming in. During this summer I will be up there to get some progress shots.

And in hindsight it probably makes the most sense to go new considering that Ascutney's lift just turned 11 years old, probably was not maintained as well as it could have been. As discussed, Ascutney did not have enough money to even bring it up to code and run it at max speed. I wonder if that would cause more wear on the drive since the lift was not run at max speed? The pictures I saw also seemed to show some wear on the lift. Nothing major, but still...

In some ways this might be a blessing in disguise for Burke since this is the first COMPLETELY new lift since 1978 ((both Willoughtby and Sherburne Express were retrofits) and that could mean a lot less headaches and make things easier having three Poma brand lifts for maintenance. Say what you want, but the Sherburne is a really nice lift. They did a nice job on that lift--it looks good and runs nice and smoothly.  Having a new Poma HSQ running to the summit will be very nice rather than a retrofitted second-hand HSQ that might or might now work as well.   

It may also help save Ascutney since having the HSQ in place might make it more marketable.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jun 13, 2011)

May 29th Photos:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 13, 2011)

May 29th Continued:  











Soon to come down:  






Presumably for pylons/footings:


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## riverc0il (Jun 14, 2011)

TB-Good point about this being one of the quietest and least publicized HSQ installs ever. Perhaps they still have yet to ink the official deal with Poma? I can't imagine any other reason why they would want to stay quiet about this project. Any sane resort would be screaming from the rooftops (unless there is any chance that it won't be ready for the 11-12 season.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 14, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> TB-Good point about this being one of the quietest and least publicized HSQ installs ever. Perhaps they still have yet to ink the official deal with Poma? I can't imagine any other reason why they would want to stay quiet about this project. Any sane resort would be screaming from the rooftops (unless there is any chance that it won't be ready for the 11-12 season.



Maybe Burke is trying to preserve their "Best Kept Secret" reputation? 


But in reality they probably don't want to put out anything official until they have a finalized purchace agreement for a lift.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 14, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Maybe Burke is trying to preserve their "Best Kept Secret" reputation?
> 
> 
> But in reality they probably don't want to put out anything official until they have a finalized purchace agreement for a lift.


 
There has got to be something that is preventing them from saying anything more at this point.  But remember that about six weeks ago there was a flurry of press attention and that Channel 7 (LSC) story.  So there has been some attention.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 14, 2011)

...but then again, if memory serves me right, in 2005 they were dismantling the Sherburne Double and well into that project before making any kind of media splash and even then it was very minor.


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## Masskier (Jun 14, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Maybe Burke is trying to preserve their "Best Kept Secret" reputation?
> 
> 
> But in reality they probably don't want to put out anything official until they have a finalized purchace agreement for a lift.



This is a done deal.  ink is dry.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 14, 2011)

Masskier said:


> This is a done deal. ink is dry.


 
Well, not only that, but trees are cut, work is progressing.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 14, 2011)

Well.....

It's not like they can force the local papers to write about this major improvement.   I imagine the ROI on a major marketing initiative during summer isn't all that great for lesser visited area like Burke.  Probably best to go heavy with the press releases and media invitations in November when folks are thinking about skiing again.   

I'm thinking the major payoff for this lift will be two seasons from now.  If they go heavy on the Groupon or the 3 for $99 deals again and combine that with heavy marketing of the new lift in November, then I think it will pay off in skier visit numbers.  Very few skiers think about skiing in the summer like members of Alpinezone do.  If Burke had the 3 for 99 deal for sale right now, I'd buy it and probably be one of a dozen people who would do so before ski season.  :lol:


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## thetrailboss (Jun 14, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Well.....
> 
> It's not like they can force the local papers to write about this major improvement. I imagine the ROI on a major marketing initiative during summer isn't all that great for lesser visited area like Burke. Probably best to go heavy with the press releases and media invitations in November when folks are thinking about skiing again.
> 
> I'm thinking the major payoff for this lift will be two seasons from now. If they go heavy on the Groupon or the 3 for $99 deals again and combine that with heavy marketing of the new lift in November, then I think it will pay off in skier visit numbers. Very few skiers think about skiing in the summer like members of Alpinezone do. If Burke had the 3 for 99 deal for sale right now, I'd buy it and probably be one of a dozen people who would do so before ski season. :lol:


 
Very true.  I'd hope that they see a bump in skier days because of this lift.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 14, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Well.....
> It's not like they can force the local papers to write about this major improvement.   I imagine the ROI on a major marketing initiative during summer isn't all that great for lesser visited area like Burke.  Probably best to go heavy with the press releases and media invitations in November when folks are thinking about skiing again.



They should at least put something on their Facebook page for crying out loud .


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## jaytrem (Jun 14, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Skilifts.org is confirming that Burke is getting a new HSQ:
> 
> http://www.skilifts.org/forum/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&id=56&record=80



Don't look at that list on skilifts.org as "confirming".  Those lists change all the time based on plans, not so much announcements or signed contract.  I'm the one who recently updated the Burke stuff, missed the "replacement" part (which it's obviously not).  Don't know where the name came form though, that wasn't me.  Another example is the Mt. Snow Sunbrook high speed.  At one point somebody put it in the 2011-2012 section, but it will be at least another year before that happens.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 14, 2011)

jaytrem said:


> Don't look at that list on skilifts.org as "confirming".  Those lists change all the time based on plans, not so much announcements or signed contract.  I'm the one who recently updated the Burke stuff, missed the "replacement" part (which it's obviously not).  Don't know where the name came form though, that wasn't me.  Another example is the Mt. Snow Sunbrook high speed.  At one point somebody put it in the 2011-2012 section, but it will be at least another year before that happens.



Thanks for the clarification 8)


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## riverc0il (Jun 14, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Well.....
> 
> It's not like they can force the local papers to write about this major improvement.   I imagine the ROI on a major marketing initiative during summer isn't all that great for lesser visited area like Burke.  Probably best to go heavy with the press releases and media invitations in November when folks are thinking about skiing again.
> 
> I'm thinking the major payoff for this lift will be two seasons from now.  If they go heavy on the Groupon or the 3 for $99 deals again and combine that with heavy marketing of the new lift in November, then I think it will pay off in skier visit numbers.  Very few skiers think about skiing in the summer like members of Alpinezone do.  If Burke had the 3 for 99 deal for sale right now, I'd buy it and probably be one of a dozen people who would do so before ski season.  :lol:


It is not even on their web page! This is marketing 101 fail if the deal is inked as MassSkier states.


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## Masskier (Jun 14, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> It is not even on their web page! This is marketing 101 fail if the deal is inked as MassSkier states.



Agreed,   I think the plan is to do a press release and an email blast soon (this week).  Then they have a whole new web site, marketing materials and plan on launching something bigger late August.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 14, 2011)

I'd use the lift to promote season pass sales.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jun 14, 2011)

That's what I call a starters shack


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## riverc0il (Jun 14, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> That's what I call a starters shack


Actually, it is the finish shack.


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## Masskier (Jun 14, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> That's what I call a starters shack



The new timing/warming building will be a  huge improvement.  I saw the plans to it and it will be much more functional for the racers.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 15, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> I'd use the lift to promote season pass sales.



Absolutely

I just think those will come in year 2.  They just need to get more people up there to try the mountain next season to drive future season pass sales.

Being able to lap that terrain in 6 minutes will make Burke ski so much better for the average skier.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> It is not even on their web page! This is marketing 101 fail if the deal is inked as MassSkier states.


 
True, but honestly at this time of year I imagine that Burke probably has one person trying to plan events for next season, coordinate the things for this season, and on the side do marketing.  So I cut them some slack.  Still, even small guys like *Pats Peak* do a lot of marketing and have a great media person.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2011)

From Sunday's hike.  

The liftline is clear:  











This is going to at least be the location of a pylon....











A storage unit for Poma?











That's a lot of wood:






Maybe it is just my perspective, but darn that is a narrow liftline:






It has seen better days:





















DIGSAFE:






They marked this area presumably because some regrading will be taking place.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's a question I have

Are they going to do any grading or trail additions on the East Bowl side of the mid-Burke lodge to be make access to the new lift easier from that side of the mountain?  Or will people need to go around the lodge and down.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Here's a question I have
> 
> Are they going to do any grading or trail additions on the East Bowl side of the mid-Burke lodge to be make access to the new lift easier from that side of the mountain? Or will people need to go around the lodge and down.


 
Probably around and down because of the road and parking lot..unless they are redoing that area as well.  I only know that part of the parking lot is going to be eliminated.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 15, 2011)

Nice pics TB!

I have a feeling they are going to have to trim the left side of this back a bit more 






Once they get a little farther along I'm going to go up to the summit to check out the work that is going on up there. The area for the summit terminal and the wind tower have to be cleared by now as well.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Nice pics TB!
> 
> I have a feeling they are going to have to trim the left side of this back a bit more
> 
> ...


 
I have not heard anything about the wind turbine.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 15, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Probably around and down because of the road and parking lot..unless they are redoing that area as well.  I only know that part of the parking lot is going to be eliminated.



I agree. There will need to be "drive to" access(see emergency/fire and service truck access) and pedestrian access to the mid-lodge which would make skiing to the skier's right of the lodge impractical. When/if the mid-lodge is relocated, this issue will likely be resolved.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 15, 2011)

Only thing I could think of is having a skier bridge over that road.  Benefit probably isn't worth the cost though.

I'm just thinking of ways to reduce the massive traverse :lol:


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 15, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Only thing I could think of is having a skier bridge over that road.  Benefit probably isn't worth the cost though.
> 
> I'm just thinking of ways to reduce the massive traverse :lol:



Yeah, it is going to be a bit of a bottle neck getting around the lodge. This what I see for the future. The lodge is moved out of the way but still within walking distance of the Poma (important for race days). Parking expanded a bit (moving the existing groomer maintenance shed somewhere else would help parking. Existing mid-lodge removed and area regraded for a consistent slope funnelling to the HSQ.


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## Masskier (Jun 15, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Yeah, it is going to be a bit of a bottle neck getting around the lodge. This what I see for the future. The lodge is moved out of the way but still within walking distance of the Poma (important for race days). Parking expanded a bit (moving the existing groomer maintenance shed somewhere else would help parking. Existing mid-lodge removed and area regraded for a consistent slope funnelling to the HSQ.



When they move the lodge, the racers will have their own building.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 15, 2011)

Will they move the lodge below the parking lots?

That would be a great feature.  It's a PITA to slog gear uphill to a lodge, then only to ski back down again to the lift.  I don't have kids, but I'm sure day tripping families with kids would appreciate that.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Will they move the lodge below the parking lots?
> 
> That would be a great feature. It's a PITA to slog gear uphill to a lodge, then only to ski back down again to the lift. I don't have kids, but I'm sure day tripping families with kids would appreciate that.


 
Most of those folks go to Sherburne as it is.  MidBurke is pretty much racers and locals.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 15, 2011)

Fair enough

Okay, when I go there, I want to walk from the parking down to Mid-Burke lodge, not up.  :lol: 

Either that or put a lift ticket shack down by the base of the lift and I'll boot up at my car.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 15, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Fair enough
> 
> Okay, when I go there, I want to walk from the parking down to Mid-Burke lodge, not up. :lol:
> 
> Either that or put a lift ticket shack down by the base of the lift and I'll boot up at my car.


 
You get kudos for (1) going to Burke, and (2) bypassing Sherburne and going for the real Burke experience by going to MidBurke.  The main part of that lodge was built by the State for the then fledgling ski area IIRC.  It was built in the 1950's when the state was trying to get ski areas to open.  The original part of the lodge is actually the part in the middle with the old log siding:












The wing with the Bear Den was added later:


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 15, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Fair enough
> 
> Okay, when I go there, I want to walk from the parking down to Mid-Burke lodge, not up.  :lol:
> 
> Either that or put a lift ticket shack down by the base of the lift and I'll boot up at my car.



How about this then?


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## deadheadskier (Jun 15, 2011)

put in a parking spot next to it that says "deadheadskier" and that would be perfect.  :beer:


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## jimmywilson69 (Jun 15, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> How about this then?



you've got that drawing in google earth down!  Very nice!


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## psyflyer (Jun 15, 2011)

While hiking today we saw heavy machinery tearing up the pavement of the mid Burke parking lot.  There was other stuff going on but could not tell exactly, either way they are busy working.  Not sure when it started as we have been away but by the looks of it, it seemed recent.  Super excited for the new lift and the new mountain biking trails!


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## psyflyer (Jun 16, 2011)

Today we hiked up the new lift-line almost to the top.  They have removed half of the parking lot of mid Burke and the other half still stands paved.  They were moving dirt around and seemed quite busy.  From up there you can clearly see where the terminal will be.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 16, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> Today we hiked up the new lift-line almost to the top.  They have removed half of the parking lot of mid Burke and the other half still stands paved.  They were moving dirt around and seemed quite busy.  From up there you can clearly see where the terminal will be.



You need to buy a camera :wink:


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 20, 2011)

Still no official annoucement from Burke. I wonder if they are waiting to do the announcement at next weekend's Lift Served Downhill MTB ribbon cutting ceremony that will have the govenor in attendence. That would provide a good opportunity considering the media coverage that follows the govenor around.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 20, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Still no official annoucement from Burke. I wonder if they are waiting to do the announcement at next weekend's Lift Served Downhill MTB ribbon cutting ceremony that will have the govenor in attendence. That would provide a good opportunity considering the media coverage that follows the govenor around.


 
That would make sense.  They need to entice the media to come though!  

FWIW I ran into a fellow Dawn Patrol member last night who lives on the mountain and he said that the mountain signed the contract last week.


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## psyflyer (Jun 23, 2011)

I was told the week of July 4th is when they are going to start actually installing the new lift.


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## Nick (Jun 23, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> You need to buy a camera :wink:



+1


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 23, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> I was told the week of July 4th is when they are going to start actually installing the new lift.



Interesting... and still no "official" announcement.

Any word on the wind tower?


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## J'Hams (Jun 23, 2011)

Guys.....

Today on the Burke Area Chamber of Commerce facebook page.......They put up a photo taken from the bottom of the surface life looking up with the photo description of something like, "New HSQ lift is happening" and I texted the news to my friend saying it was "Official"--I wouldn't have said "official" if I hadn't actually seen it....Now however, the photo is mysteriously gone. I was one of 8 or so that commented on it...There was like, 89 people that liked it.. So yeah, its on.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 23, 2011)

cool J'Hams if you hear any more info, post it up.

Do you attend the Wormtown festivals, or just live in Worcester?


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## J'Hams (Jun 23, 2011)

live in Worcester.......been a while.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 23, 2011)

cool.  my brother is good friends with the folks who own wormtown trading.  We grew up in Westboro.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm going to try to get some pics this weekend. Apparently a lot of the regrading between the Willoughby quad and the base of the new HSQ has been done to remove the uphill section near the snow making pond.

Area in blue


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## thetrailboss (Jun 24, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I'm going to try to get some pics this weekend. Apparently a lot of the regrading between the Willoughby quad and the base of the new HSQ has been done to remove the uphill section near the snow making pond.
> 
> Area in blue


 
Nice.  On my last visit, two weeks ago, this area was marked and DIG SAFED.  I figured it was going to be regraded.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 24, 2011)

J'Hams said:


> Guys.....
> 
> Today on the Burke Area Chamber of Commerce facebook page.......They put up a photo taken from the bottom of the surface life looking up with the photo description of something like, "New HSQ lift is happening" and I texted the news to my friend saying it was "Official"--I wouldn't have said "official" if I hadn't actually seen it....Now however, the photo is mysteriously gone. I was one of 8 or so that commented on it...There was like, 89 people that liked it.. So yeah, its on.


 
I can't find it either.  As you can see from my pictures, they definitely are doing it.  For some reason they are waiting to make the splash though.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 26, 2011)

Went up this afternoon and got some pics. Looks like right now only half of the parking lot is going to be taken out. They regraded the slope between the Willoughby quad, although they didn't dig in as close to the snow making pond as I thought they would. 




































Up on top the clouds were a bit thick.

Looking at the location of the new HSQ terminal from the Willougby unload.












More pics here:
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn238/from_the_nek/Burke%20HSQ/


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## thetrailboss (Jun 27, 2011)

Looks like it is ending right at the old knoll.  If so, perfect location with the Toll Road wrapping around it.  Thanks for the update!


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 27, 2011)

And still no "official" annoucement.


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## psyflyer (Jun 27, 2011)

Today while hiking to the top we saw work being done to clear the area where the wind tower will be placed.  We also met some folks from Lousiana and told us they are there to install the wind tower and they recently came to Burke.  Not sure why Burke would have folks from down south come and do the install but this is what they said.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Jun 27, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> Today while hiking to the top we saw work being done to clear the area where the wind tower will be placed.  We also met some folks from Lousiana and told us they are there to install the wind tower and they recently came to Burke.  Not sure why Burke would have folks from down south come and do the install but this is what they said.



Probably couldn't find any local companies to do the work as they are busy putting in the boondoggle windmills in Maine for First Wind.  At least Burke is installing it where there is actually wind.


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## deadheadskier (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> And still no "official" annoucement.



weird

They had Governor Shumlin on hand for a ribbon cutting for the mountain bike park on Saturday, but didn't take that great opportunity with media around to announce the new lift?  Very Surprising.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2011/06/28/ribbon_cut_on_burke_mountain_bike_park/


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## riverc0il (Jun 28, 2011)

What strikes me is that this seems much different than when the Sherburne Express went in. I recall reading official updates online once they started installing the lift. Though in that case, they went right to the lift install because the line was already cut and very little pre-work was needed aside from taking out the old lift.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jun 28, 2011)

This does seem weird.  Are they potentially in between marketing people?  Therefore there is no one to "communicate" the info?


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 28, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> This does seem weird.  Are they potentially in between marketing people?  Therefore there is no one to "communicate" the info?



Not that I know of. Even if they were thin in the marketing dept, it really wouldn't take much to put together an announcement that could have been presented this past weekend when the governor was there.


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## djspookman (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm wondering if they're just cutting the line for this season, then installing next.. could be a possibility too!


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## psyflyer (Jun 28, 2011)

KeeneBikeCoop said:


> I'm wondering if they're just cutting the line for this season, then installing next.. could be a possibility too!



I do not think that is a possibility.  Someone on the inside told me specifically that the week of July 4th is when they will start installing the lift.  I guess we will find out soon.


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## psyflyer (Jun 28, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> This does seem weird.  Are they potentially in between marketing people?  Therefore there is no one to "communicate" the info?



Marketing at Burke has been a sore spot for sure.  Without going into details the situation is dire.


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## DoublePlanker (Jun 28, 2011)

A lot of mountains have a blog where they post pictures about the development.  Sugarloaf about Bracket Basin and Cannon about Mittersill come to mind.  Burke should do that.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 28, 2011)

DoublePlanker said:


> A lot of mountains have a blog where they post pictures about the development.  Sugarloaf about Bracket Basin and Cannon about Mittersill come to mind.  Burke should do that.



Right now an official announcement from the mountain would be the first thing I would do. A blog with lift construction updates/lot of pictures would be gravy. Maybe I should start one...


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Right now an official announcement from the mountain would be the first thing I would do. A blog with lift construction updates/lot of pictures would be gravy. Maybe I should start one...



I figured they were just going with the "build it and they will come" philosophy.

Let be honest - Pimping themselves really isn't a forte, some things change....


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Right now an official announcement from the mountain would be the first thing I would do. A blog with lift construction updates/lot of pictures would be gravy. Maybe I should start one...



HA HA  I say go for it.  You've clearly documented it from conception, to the start of construction!  Why not finish it!


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## deadheadskier (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Right now an official announcement from the mountain would be the first thing I would do. A blog with lift construction updates/lot of pictures would be gravy. Maybe I should start one...



Give em' a call.  Say you're all over it for a Season Pass.  :grin:


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 28, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Give em' a call.  Say you're all over it for a Season Pass.  :grin:



Too late :wink:
Well there goes my lunch break :lol:

http://fromthenek.blogspot.com/

Start with the bottom Blog post... 

Maybe I can talk my way into a season pass for the Toll Road. $5 a pop to check out the progress on the summit could get expensive.


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> Too late :wink:
> Well there goes my lunch break :lol:
> 
> http://fromthenek.blogspot.com/
> ...



$5?  NEK - you can ride with me Sun morning if you want, I won't charge you anything.


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## thetrailboss (Jun 28, 2011)

When it comes to marketing, Burke is weird that's for sure.  Their site and FB pages are awesome, but then on the other hand they undersell other things.  Riv is right that the Sherburne was pretty well advertised, but even then they were very quiet about it at first and that was in large part because Ginn and Company were in the process of buying the place.  One had to laugh though because it was "secret" and all, but folks couldn't help but notice all the work going on and all the land that was bought.  So when they finally came out it was the world's worst kept secret.  

So with this project I can understand that you don't want to overpromise and underdeliver, but honestly it is not *that* late considering that many places begin this kind of work about now anyway.


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 28, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> $5?  NEK - you can ride with me Sun morning if you want, I won't charge you anything.



You biking up?


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> You biking up?



Yes

your gonna have to upgrade your pocket phone now that your running a blogspot


----------



## from_the_NEK (Jun 28, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> Yes
> 
> your gonna have to upgrade your pocket phone now that your running a blogspot



I'd love to bike up but I won't be around Sunday morning  What trail are you going to ride down?

I refuse to get a smart phone :roll:


----------



## kingdom-tele (Jun 28, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I'd love to bike up but I won't be around Sunday morning  What trail are you going to ride down?
> 
> I refuse to get a smart phone :roll:



Hell man, I don't even have a phone, I would be screwed with a phone smarter than me.

Road bike - hillclimb training, do it 2x a month.  I have yet to run upper J Bar so that would be my choice on the fat tires - riding  a hardtail 29er though so the down might be "interesting" would be fun though  -I'll give you a holler next time I head up


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## riverc0il (Jun 28, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> Road bike - hillclimb training, do it 2x a month.





You training form BUMPS or something? Regardless, nicely done, that is quite a training run!


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 28, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> You training form BUMPS or something? Regardless, nicely done, that is quite a training run!



I used to do max Heart Rate training for the 24 hrs of Great Glen.


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## kingdom-tele (Jun 29, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> You training form BUMPS or something? Regardless, nicely done, that is quite a training run!




kind of Riv.  I do a few of the BUMPS races, the ones that hand out T shirts mostly, the Mansfield climb, Jay climb, yada yada, certainly not racing for a podium as I am a clydesdale but its actually a fun way up the Mts, see some cool roads (whiteface) and it beats swatting bugs early in the summer, just gotta keep em out of the eyes on the decents

NEK - you interested trying a ride from Canaan to Island Pond? no pave - fat tire trek

apologies for the drift all


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## from_the_NEK (Jun 29, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> NEK - you interested trying a ride from Canaan to Island Pond? no pave - fat tire trek
> 
> apologies for the drift all



That's gotta be quite a link-up job of trails, logging roads, and class 4 roads (20 miles as the crow flies)  8). I haven't ridden my bike in almost two years at this point due to so many other responsibilities . When are you planning to ride? I would have to get in a couple training rides in before attempting something like that.


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## kingdom-tele (Jun 29, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> That's gotta be quite a link-up job of trails, logging roads, and class 4 roads (20 miles as the crow flies)  8). I haven't ridden my bike in almost two years at this point due to so many other responsibilities . When are you planning to ride? I would have to get in a couple training rides in before attempting something like that.



funny how things can collect dust quick huh. or more surprisingly how fast time goes by

30 mile trip. Gaudette rd(powerlines) --> tin shack rd--> upper tin shack---> eagle's nest rd--> Lewis Pond rd--> McConnell Pond rd ---> Head of the Pond---> swim---> Bar

no rush - will do it sometime before Bird Hunting season starts in mid Sept. I'll extend the offer to any AZ'ers interested to, its a nice remote ride

once we get the bike trailer dialed in looking at extending this trip across 105 into S America Pond region  and popping out in Granby - next year at this rate but the camping luxury will be nice


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## psyflyer (Jun 29, 2011)

Today they were prepping the ground for the windmill installation and doing some drilling.  There was a truck with a sign saying they were drilling and blasting experts and also a large driller on the site of the wind tower which seemed to be drilling n the ground.  I again confirmed with an inside source at the location that the lift will be installed week of July 4th and that it will be installed for this upcoming snowboarding season.


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## riverc0il (Jun 29, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> I again confirmed with an inside source at the location that the lift will be installed week of July 4th and that it will be installed for this upcoming snowboarding season.


Maybe they are waiting for 100% installation before making a press release. 

If your source is accurate, I am almost somewhat bummed that I'll be skiing Tux and not able to be at Burke for a hike and photo journalism.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 5, 2011)

So it is July 5th.  No word yet.  Any other updates?


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 5, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> So it is July 5th.  No word yet.  Any other updates?



I was out of town all weekend, so I didn't get up there to check out the progress from last week. It sounds like this week may be the start of more significant work anyway. Hopefully I can get in a run up to the mtn after work one of these evenings.


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## psyflyer (Jul 7, 2011)

*Update*

Work for the new lift has yet to start, there were a few pick-up trucks on site but did not see anyone.  However, work on the wind tower is going full speed ahead.  Today they were pouring concrete up top which Im guessing its for the base of the wind tower.  We saw three cement trucks and one other large truck which poured the cement.  There were many vehicles up there including a couple from Alteris which seems like a renewable energy shop.  Weather permitting we hike to the top daily so I can fill you guys in with updates every now and then.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 7, 2011)

psyflyer said:


> Work for the new lift has yet to start, there were a few pick-up trucks on site but did not see anyone.  However, work on the wind tower is going full speed ahead.  Today they were pouring concrete up top which Im guessing its for the base of the wind tower.  We saw three cement trucks and one other large truck which poured the cement.  There were many vehicles up there including a couple from Alteris which seems like a renewable energy shop.  Weather permitting we hike to the top daily so I can fill you guys in with updates every now and then.



I plan to get up there after work today.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 11, 2011)

Any news?


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## nelsapbm (Jul 12, 2011)

According to an article in today's Rutland Herald Burke WILL NOT be buying Ascutney's chair. Of course you have to be a paid subscriber to read the article which I am not....


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 12, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Any news?



Never made it up last week and I was out of town again last weekend. I will try to get up there again this week (probably Thursday).



nelsapbm said:


> According to an article in today's Rutland Herald Burke WILL NOT be buying Ascutney's chair. Of course you have to be a paid subscriber to read the article which I am not....



Wow, the Rutland Herald is right on top of it  Although, in their defense, there still hasn't been an official announcement about Burke going with a new HSQ (which would automatically mean Burke is definitely NOT buying Ascutney's quad).


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## psyflyer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Work MAY have begun!*



thetrailboss said:


> Any news?



So... Today we hiked up and at first noticed about two dozen huge steel bolts, approx 5 feet tall and welded together in fours.  These looked to me like the bolts that stick out of the base of the pylons.  They were standing there all lined up together on what remains of the parking lot of mid Burke.  Also they excavated about 5 holes, they are about 6-8 feet deep and 10plus accross.  Perhaps they are for the pylons, not 100%.  At first nobody was there but on our way down an excavator showed up and was digging more and some contractors (looked like contractors) were signaling up and down the mountain and seem to be doing something.  To me this looked like they were essentially getting ready as those steel bolts certainly have to do with the new lift.  Coupled with those huge holes seems like in the near term we should be getting some real action.  We will be hiking to the top tomorrow and will give you another update then.  Almost forgot to mention... The BMA wood cabin that houses the racing commentators (not sure what they are called), but anyways it was torn down half way.  Looked like an excavator ripped it in half, and the other half is still up.  There is debris everywhere and it looks like they just need to finish tearing it down, not sure why they left it half up and half torn to the ground.  

The wind tower work also is proceeding, nobody there doing any work today though.  They poured the concrete foundation last week and its now dry.  There are also a couple of other concrete structures next to this foundation with stuff sticking out of it.  By stuff I mean, iron wiring and some other plastic looking objects.

Stay tuned...


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 14, 2011)

Going up to get pics this evening...


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 19, 2011)

any updates?


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 19, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> any updates?



Apparently I suck at blogging, due to no free time. Last week I got a few pics of the rebar/bolt frames that are at the mid-lodge. There were no holes in the ground for the lift towers at the mid lodge but there was a trench being dug that looked like it was dug to repair a waste water pipe.
I didn't make it to the summit to see what progress had been made there. I'll try again this week.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 19, 2011)

no worries.  I'm sure you have better things to do.  Lift construction isn't really all that interesting until they move the towers in.  Then there is another lag until they string the haul rope, and then it's done.


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## psyflyer (Jul 19, 2011)

*Update*

Mid Burke still has those bolts I had mentioned last time in the parking lot, and seems to me they have brought in a few more.  The holes have been mostly covered but a new trench has been dug.  I will update on this as things evolve.

The wind tower is moving ahead swiftly.  Today there was a crane at the top and a couple of sections of the wind tower are installed.  There were numerous workers and seems like they may be done in the near future.


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## kingdom-tele (Jul 20, 2011)

got word they are resdcheduling the burke hillclimb race over labor day weekend due to the lift installation on Sat morning- just in case anyone wants to make popcorn and watch


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## thetrailboss (Jul 20, 2011)

kingdom-tele said:


> got word they are resdcheduling the burke hillclimb race over labor day weekend due to the lift installation on Sat morning- just in case anyone wants to make popcorn and watch


 
The lift installation that is happening, but Burke is not admitting to you mean?


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## Masskier (Jul 25, 2011)

Wind Tower is up.  It was installed right at the top of the Dippers


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 25, 2011)

Masskier said:


> Wind Tower is up.  It was installed right at the top of the Dippers


 
I went up on Saturday and checked it out. Hopefully I'll have some more photos up tomorrow. The wind tower is a bit shorter than the big TV/Radio antenna at the summit. Since, the wind tower is a bit off of the summit it isn't visible from downtown Lyndonville.I can see it from my house but it isn't prominent.The blades are black and the column is white. If they had painted the pole dark grey it would have been even less visible. the white really stands out when the sun hits it.

Right at the top of the Dippers. This photo was taken from where the traverse from the Willoughby chair crosses the toll road.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 25, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> I went up on Saturday and checked it out. Hopefully I'll have some more photos up tomorrow. The wind tower is a bit shorter than the big TV/Radio antenna at the summit. Since, the wind tower is a bit off of the summit it isn't visible from downtown Lyndonville.I can see it from my house but it isn't prominent.The blades are black and the column is white. If they had painted the pole dark grey it would have been even less visible. the white really stands out when the sun hits it.
> 
> Right at the top of the Dippers. This photo was taken from where the traverse from the Willoughby chair crosses the toll road.


 
Seems ironic that the resort that was so anti-wind only a few years ago that they bought the development rights to a nearby proposed wind development now has a wind turbine at the summit of their own mountain.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 26, 2011)

IMHO there is a huge difference between putting up a turbine this size at a location that is already "developed" with a paved road and putting up a "farm" of 450' tall tubines after plowing of the top of a realtively undeveloped wilderness mtn.

Then compare this (Top of Burke from near the airport on Pudding Hill):





To this (5 towers built so far in Sheffield):


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2011)

from_the_NEK said:


> IMHO there is a huge difference between putting up a turbine this size at a location that is already "developed" with a paved road and putting up a "farm" of 450' tall tubines after plowing of the top of a realtively undeveloped wilderness mtn.
> 
> Then compare this (Top of Burke from near the airport on Pudding Hill):
> 
> ...


 
I agree, but I still think that it is ironic.  However, I imagine it was the ownership/management that has been forced out that had that opinion.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 26, 2011)

Also Blog = updated (finally)


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## Zand (Jul 26, 2011)

Did the installation of the wind tower have any effect on the entrance into Sasquatch? Not that it would be a huge loss...


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## thetrailboss (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice pics and blog, FTNEK.


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## jimmywilson69 (Jul 27, 2011)

nice blog,  thanks for the update!

FYI "wind farms" have polluted many ridge tops here in PA.  I don't neccesisarily disagree with wind power, but if you don't have a constant wind, then they are kind of usesless.  it seems more often than not, they are sitting iddle.  Maybe they are still building them, and they haven't been "turned on" but it seems they have been installed for more than year or two at all of the locations I have seen.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 27, 2011)

Zand said:


> Did the installation of the wind tower have any effect on the entrance into Sasquatch? Not that it would be a huge loss...



It does not effect Sasquatch at all. The tower is just uphill of the entrance.


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## Boardguy (Jul 28, 2011)

I was up at Burke the past couple of days and as "from the NEK" says the hole below the mid Burke parking area does look like it is for the foundation for the lower end of the new lift. There was also digging being done at the summit end. There was a machine up there and they were moving rocks and digging what looked to me to be the foundation hole for that end. In the parking lot the steel frames with bolts that go into the tower footings ( I assume) were still there. I counted twenty two of those. In regard to the wind turbine, from the base lodge you can just see the the top of the unit. The turbine itself and just a little below the hub of the blades is visable from where I was. I heard that the crew to install the lift is starting next week. We have heard that before though huh. Things are still happening so that is a good sign.


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 29, 2011)

Boardguy said:


> I was up at Burke the past couple of days and as "from the NEK" says the hole below the mid Burke parking area does look like it is for the foundation for the lower end of the new lift. There was also digging being done at the summit end. There was a machine up there and they were moving rocks and digging what looked to me to be the foundation hole for that end. In the parking lot the steel frames with bolts that go into the tower footings ( I assume) were still there. I counted twenty two of those. In regard to the wind turbine, from the base lodge you can just see the the top of the unit. The turbine itself and just a little below the hub of the blades is visable from where I was. I heard that the crew to install the lift is starting next week. We have heard that before though huh. Things are still happening so that is a good sign.



I have comfirmation that the base terminal is indeed going to be located where the large hole is being dug on the lower edge of the former parking lot. 






According to my source, this frees up more area in the meadow below the lift for future development. Personally I think it is a good move. That extra 75' of vertical (500' horizontal distance) that was part of the Act 250 approved liftline was going to be garbage vert of flat runout. My source also added that the summit terminal isn't due to be delivered until the end of November :-o, with final load testing slated for Christmas Eve  :smile:. I really hope they don't plan on opening this thing for the first time Christmas morning. :-?
There is also a stumping contractor currently onsite, grinding and removing the remaining stumps from the lift line. :smile: 
There is an article in the Caledonian Record today about the wind tower. It is supposed to go online by the end of August once the electricals are hooked up.
The article also quotes Tim McGuire:
"We're making some very significant improvements to our ski offerings that will be ready for this upcoming ski season... The resort's managment is trying to keep the details under wraps. Officials want to announce a handful of developments all at once closer to the ski season to generate some excitement and publicity."

Also updated the blog with some of this info.


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## thetrailboss (Jul 29, 2011)

More news about the major HSQ installation that is happening but yet isn't.......

I guess that makes sense.  

Stowe just had a nice blip on WCAX about their work.  They regularly update their FB page with the pics and that generates consistent attention.  So does Sugarloaf and Mount Snow.  By the time they do announce it, we will all be saying, "yeah, yeah, tell us something we don't know."  And then again, maybe there is something that we don't yet know......


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## thetrailboss (Jul 29, 2011)

...and considering how late the project started, they are damn lucky that they could get a new HSQ custom built as soon as they did.  That is good for Poma (two major jobs in Vermont this summer alone).


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## from_the_NEK (Jul 29, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> ...and considering how late the project started, they are damn lucky that they could get a new HSQ custom built as soon as they did.  That is good for Poma (two major jobs in Vermont this summer alone).



I think that may be a big reason they have been playing the cards close to the vest. The late start has probably resulted in a somewhat unclear timeline as to when Burke can expect parts to be delivered. Considering the fading daylight hours and almost constant cloud cover in November (not to mention it can get pretty cold up there), that summit terminal install, combined with the subsequent rope pull and chair hanging, is going to be interesting. . The late "official" announcement is likely going to be made when a more complete final installation time line has been established.


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## threecy (Jul 29, 2011)

Mt. Snow and Sugarloaf will likely have their new lifts fully operational in time for the Christmas holidays.

If Burke makes an announcement now, but doesn't have a lift functional until the middle of the season, the PR could be detrimental.

I believe Ragged's detach opened on Feb. 1 in 2002.


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## Boardguy (Aug 5, 2011)

Anything new happening up there this week?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2011)

Going to check up on it this weekend.


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## nelsapbm (Aug 6, 2011)

Someone on the NELSAP board posted that the new lift is going to be a Leitner-Poma HSQ. Truth? Hearsay? See what you can find out TB!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 6, 2011)

nelsapbm said:


> Someone on the NELSAP board posted that the new lift is going to be a Leitner-Poma HSQ. Truth? Hearsay? See what you can find out TB!



Yes. I've seen and heard that Poma is doing the job. I am going up in a bit.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 7, 2011)

Just got back from visiting MidBurke.  In the two months since I have been up there they have completely regraded the MidBurke base area from the Willoughby Quad all the way to the base of the new lift, which is uphill from where the Act 250 map had it located.  The grading is nice and folks will be able to cruise down from that side of the mountain to the new HSQ.  They have excavated the area where the new base will be.  Royal Trail Works (who did the other work in 2005) is on the site.  Other than that, nothing new.  They are repainting the Poma as well.  Pics soon.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 10, 2011)

Here are the pics.  

Royal Trail Works is doing the site work, no indication that Poma is doing the lift:  







RV's and footing frames:











Base of the new lift looking up:  






Much closer to MidBurke than originally planned:  






Most likely where the base footings will go:  






Not quite sure if these were bikers, workers, or something else:  






Regraded base area where the parking lot used to be:  






Regraded base area from the Willoughby Quad all the way to the new quad.  






Quite a bit lower than the original trail:






What remains of the timing shack:  






Poma is getting a paint job:


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## thetrailboss (Aug 15, 2011)

I went up on Friday afternoon and they are making progress.  Pictures coming tonight.  The base area is fully excavated and graded.  It is right below the old parking lot.  It also is probably the most scenic base loading area you can imagine with the stunning view of Willoughby Gap behind it.  They have surveyed and realligned the lift line.  The pylon locations are marked--there are only going to be three pylons between the base of the lift and the Poma.  One pylon is literally right beside looker's right of MidBurke so the lift will go over part of the building's roof.  The foundation cages are the only components on site still, but a large crate has appeared with the bolts/fasteners for the pylons as were some components for the "Stowe" job.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 15, 2011)

And for those that did not read *the Mount Snow Chair Blog*, you might want to because in the comments one can see:  



> Brandon Swartz _says:_
> August 12 at 5:23 am
> Looking great guys! After experiencing this kind of project myself this year at another mountain, I can relate to how much work it is. But also how exciting it is when things actually start coming together and taking shape. I believe the forms will be heading to Burke Mountain after your done. I believe we are flying towers for our lift around that date and then the company is probably going up your way! Exciting times


 
And:  



> askier _says:_
> August 11 at 4:33 pm
> Burke Mountain for next Poma installation? Any pictures of summit site work?


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## riverc0il (Aug 15, 2011)

C'mon Burke. Why the radio silence? I don't care if Poma can or cannot guarantee installation by Christmas.... let the PR rip. Everyone is going to see the construction when they go to Burke even if the lift is not yet completed.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 15, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> C'mon Burke. Why the radio silence? I don't care if Poma can or cannot guarantee installation by Christmas.... let the PR rip. Everyone is going to see the construction when they go to Burke even if the lift is not yet completed.


 
Well Riv, in the meantime, both FTNEK and I will continue to update you all...at least until I am out west for good in October.  We will have to ask Burke for our paychecks as their HSQ PR Squad I guess :wink:  

Here is the way things looked on Friday....the base is completely excavated, towers sites are being marked, and some other components came by way of Stowe:




































Dropping in to be first in line I guess:






Soon-to-be Tower 2:  






Soon-to-be Tower 3 is at the stake, literally feet away from MidBurke Lodge:











Tower 4 will sit on the hillock near the Poma:  






And speaking of Poma, some new green paint.  Look closely...no more Poma derailer.  The Pomas are going to be fixed on the cable like last season.  











Willoughby is all ready for skiers and riders:






A good picture of how high MidBurke now is compared to the base area:


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## riverc0il (Aug 15, 2011)

I didn't ride the Poma last season so I didn't notice the fixed grip status. I assume they need to slow it down a little for that to work?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 15, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I didn't ride the Poma last season so I didn't notice the fixed grip status. I assume they need to slow it down a little for that to work?


 
Yes.  Last season I noticed that the Pomas were all on the haul rope and asked the Dawn Patrol what the deal was.  Apparently during the season the track and release lever broke and Poma could not replace or repair it because they no longer make it.  So they ran it and would push the Pomas through which required it to run slower.  This summer they removed the track and release altogether as you can see.  I imagine they could run it a little bit faster, but probably not as "bat out of hell" fast as it once was.


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## Newpylong (Aug 16, 2011)

Is Poma doing the lift at Sugarloaf too or is someone else?

Is 3-4 projects in one season a lot for one manufacturer?


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## UVSHTSTRM (Aug 16, 2011)

Maybe I have missed it during the last week or so, but has the resort still not said a word about the lift being installed?  Seems odd if in fact that they are not releasing info or tooting their horn.  These types of things can really drive season ticket sales and buzz.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 17, 2011)

Newpylong said:


> Is Poma doing the lift at Sugarloaf too or is someone else?
> 
> Is 3-4 projects in one season a lot for one manufacturer?


 
IIRC Doppelmayr/CTEC is doing Stowe and Sugarloaf.  Poma is doing Burke and Mount Snow.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 17, 2011)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Maybe I have missed it during the last week or so, but has the resort still not said a word about the lift being installed? Seems odd if in fact that they are not releasing info or tooting their horn. These types of things can really drive season ticket sales and buzz.


 
No, you are not missing anything. They have not said anything. In fact they go so far as to delete any questions about it on their FB page. Not sure what the secret is, but I imagine it has to do with the very late start on the project. 

Here is what is new. I picked up a Cal Rec from this past weekend. There was an excellent series on the Kingdom Trails. A positive article in the Cal Rec? Who would have thought? 

But there was an article buried in the back about Burke. Tim McGuire went before the Burke DRB last week and unveiled the latest plan. They want to start pre-selling and building single family homes near MidBurke this winter. They also plan to eventually pre-sell and build a hotel at MidBurke. The work will begin at MidBurke and they will work in one area at a time. They plan on a 10-20 year buildout timetable. They want to start the [serious] PR campaign this winter. No word in the article about specific ski area improvements or the HSQ. I will defer to Mass skier for more specifics. He has closer ties and more skin in the game up there.

The project has been scaled back, but will involve a much more gradual transition rather than a sudden transformation into a Stratton/Okemo monstrosity.


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## drjeff (Aug 17, 2011)

Newpylong said:


> Is Poma doing the lift at Sugarloaf too or is someone else?
> 
> Is 3-4 projects in one season a lot for one manufacturer?



About a decade ago when there was way more new lifts being installed per year than in the last few years,  each manufacturer was doing easily 3 to 5 projects a piece in the Northeast and between 40 and 50 nationwide


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## thetrailboss (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm a little late, but here is the update for Friday, August 19th.  






There's nothing to see here:






Presumably the electrical or comm lines:






The excavation is done and the lift manufacturer is onsite beginning with the install process.  The footings have been sorted out and nuts are on each bolt:






????
















Load testing:






They have divided the components up for each tower:






The footing for Tower 11:






Wonder what it will look like?  Judging by the footing, this tower, along with Towers 4 and 5 will have a "riser" section and look like this:











While the others will be standard four-bolt towers that will look like this:






Tower 12:






And who is doing the work?  Wait for it....






No surprise.  I met a truck on MidBurke road with some workers in it.  






The base or summit terminal:








[


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## deadheadskier (Aug 26, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Wonder what it will look like?  Judging by the footing, this tower, along with Towers 4 and 5 will have a "riser" section and look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



IIRC, that's the type of tower setup that failed at Blackcomb


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## Telemechanic (Aug 26, 2011)

True, but there are lots of two stage towers out there.  The tower on Whistler Blackcomb's Excalibur Gondola failed when it filled with water an froze.  Any type of tower can fail if ice is allowed to build up inside.


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## riverc0il (Aug 26, 2011)

Burke has an existing two stage tower near the top of Willoughby. One of the higher chairlifts spots in the east that I can think of along with the Sunnyside Double at MRG as it ascends Gazelle.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 26, 2011)

wonder what the benefit is of having such a two stage type set up vs. a single straight pole?

Wasn't what happened with the Blackhomb Tower is water leaked in at the connection, ice built up on the inside, it expanded and cracked?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 26, 2011)

Telemechanic said:


> True, but there are lots of two stage towers out there. The tower on Whistler Blackcomb's Excalibur Gondola failed when it filled with water an froze. Any type of tower can fail if ice is allowed to build up inside.


 
Excalibur was built by Doppelmayr, not Poma.  Are their respective two-stage towers designed differently, Telemechanic?  I can't recall what the Doppelmayr ones look like, but I agree that I have seen a lot of Poma two-stage towers.  

And glad to have you weigh in on lift technology, Telemechanic.  Sorry to keep up with the shop talk though!  You guys (Loon, yes?) have all Doppelmayrs, right?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 26, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Burke has an existing two stage tower near the top of Willoughby. One of the higher chairlifts spots in the east that I can think of along with the Sunnyside Double at MRG as it ascends Gazelle.


 
That is quite a high run there.  I think that there are a few Sherburne pylons that are two stage as well.  

In terms of other higher lifts, I think that the North Ridge where it crosses Lower Elbow/Cruiser is pretty high, as are sections of the Slide Brook.  But you're right, because of high winds and exposure there aren't too many chairs that run too high up.


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## Telemechanic (Aug 27, 2011)

Generally a second section is added when the tower needs to be taller than average.  There may be manufacturing and engineering reasons for maximum tube lengths that I can't explain but I know weight is an issue when installing the tower (helicopters)  and shipping longer tubes is more difficult (tractor-trailors).

I couldn't find specific information about where the tower at W/B leaked but the flanges were solid (discs not rings) so its not likely it was at the bolted connection.   The tower tubes didn't crack vertically,   pictures show a horizontal failure below the lower flange of the bolted connection.  Either the weld or the steel failed.  The tower sections were repaired not replaced and the lift was closed eight days.

Water in towers wasn't a new problem and we checked annually but after the Excalibur accident the industry increased attention towards water build-up within towers.

I don't know of any major design differences between Doppelmayr's and L-POA's but I'm only familar with Doppelmayr.  We have one such tower at Loon:  Gondola tower 14.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 1, 2011)

I finally updated the blog again (with info and pics that are almost two weeks old :roll


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## Telemechanic (Sep 3, 2011)

*Burke "talks" of new lift!*

On Burke's facebook page someone asked about the new lift and an administrator actually answered:

Dave 
Is the new lift done yet?
Wednesday at 12:44pm

Burke Mountain Resort 
Hey Dave, still working on it, we'll post more info and pictures soon!
Thursday at 9:21am

Dave
awesome thanks!!
Thursday at 10:57am

http://www.facebook.com/BurkeMtn?sk=wall


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## Nick (Sep 3, 2011)

I missed the paragliding pic earlier, that's pretty sweet. I didn't realize they flew at Burke. I'm itching to get mine out of the basement!


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