# Huntah sold to Peak Resorts



## St. Jerry (Nov 30, 2015)

that is all.  carry on


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## VTKilarney (Nov 30, 2015)

From the press release:

The purchase price is slightly more than six times Hunter Mountain's adjusted EBITDA, which is estimated at approximately $6 million (unaudited) for its fiscal year ended April 30, 2015.

Peak Resorts currently has preliminary lender commitments for a first mortgage of approximately $20 million, which would be secured by Hunter Mountain assets. The remainder of the cash requirement is expected to be funded by tapping the line of credit the company announced in October 2015. Peak Resorts expects to complete the purchase of Hunter Mountain by year-end 2015.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2015)

Wow

Great move.  That will benefit both Hunter and Mountain Snow.


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## billski (Nov 30, 2015)

why does this feel like Ski Inc. de je vous?


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## mriceyman (Nov 30, 2015)

Now just have to expand across the ridge 


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## VTKilarney (Nov 30, 2015)

I think it's a good purchase as well, although they definitely paid a premium.  If done correctly, it will drive a lot of New York market skiers to their other properties in Vermont and New Hampshire.  It can definitely give Mt. Snow a leg up over Stratton and Okemo.


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## billski (Nov 30, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> I think it's a good purchase as well, although they definitely paid a premium.  If done correctly, it will drive a lot of New York market skiers to their other properties in Vermont and New Hampshire.


 No! No! say it ain't so!


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 30, 2015)

Well there's the answer to the recent _"multi-million dollar financing"_ question.


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## xwhaler (Nov 30, 2015)

And puts the Saddleback/Peaks rumors to bed once and for all!


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 30, 2015)

Here's the most important bit of news for skiers who may happen to own a pass:



> *For this 2015-2016 ski season, we are planning to offer reciprocal  programs among the resorts for the season passholders at Hunter Mountain  and our current properties.*



This news is FINE by me.

The more New Yorkers going to southern Vermont, the less crowded I-87 will be.

God bless America!!!! :flag:


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 30, 2015)

There's going to be a conference call for investors at 5:30pm.  Always interesting info to be gleaned from those. 

 I'll be listening to this on the drive home.   For anyone interested: 877-292-0959


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## andrec10 (Nov 30, 2015)

Wow...End of an ERA! There a re a few people retiring nicely!


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## thetrailboss (Nov 30, 2015)

Wow.  No $hit?


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## cdskier (Nov 30, 2015)

Did anyone see this one coming? I remember speculation about who Peak could be considering buying, but I don't recall anyone mentioning Hunter or anything else in the Catskills region even as a possibility.


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## ss20 (Nov 30, 2015)

Wow.  Define "dominant player" in the Eastern ski industry?  Mount Snow and Hunter two of _the_ most major players in the East, from a financial standpoint.  This is what Peaks has been about since the beginning... volume volume volume!!!

Peaks was offering a nice Cyber Monday deal today... $149 for one day each at Mt. Snow, Wildcat, Attitash, and Crothced, plus one extra day of your choice.  Add in Hunter and you've got 90% of the northeast population in your grasp.  Don't forget about their PA properties Buffalo is the only region they don't have a player in.   

I doubt we'll see much investment in the mountain.  What does Hunter need?  Nothing.  Sit back and soak up the profit to finance the Mega Mount Snow master plan.


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## yeggous (Nov 30, 2015)

ss20 said:


> Wow.  Define "dominant player" in the Eastern ski industry?  Mount Snow and Hunter two of _the_ most major players in the East, from a financial standpoint.  This is what Peaks has been about since the beginning... volume volume volume!!!
> 
> Peaks was offering a nice Cyber Monday deal today... $149 for one day each at Mt. Snow, Wildcat, Attitash, and Crothced, plus one extra day of your choice.  Add in Hunter and you've got 90% of the northeast population in your grasp.  Don't forget about their PA properties Buffalo is the only region they don't have a player in.
> 
> I doubt we'll see much investment in the mountain.  What does Hunter need?  Nothing.  Sit back and soak up the profit to finance the Mega Mount Snow master plan.



I know next to nothing about Hunter so I just did some poking around. What does Hunter need? A new trail map.


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## RichT (Nov 30, 2015)

I liked the fact that it was held together with a "rusted screw and a bent nail"! I just hope they don't do what Windham's done! Windham has to many beds there now, place must be packed on weekends/holidays.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 30, 2015)

So it was Hunter and not Saddleback, Waterville Valley, or Shawnee Peak (ME).


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## Smellytele (Nov 30, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Here's the most important bit of news for skiers who may happen to own a pass:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So if I buy a Hunter Season pass I can ski at all the other areas? If so it would be a lot cheaper than the granite pass I would think. Or maybe I read that wrong.


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## drjeff (Nov 30, 2015)

RichT said:


> I liked the fact that it was held together with a "rusted screw and a bent nail"! I just hope they don't do what Windham's done! Windham has to many beds there now, place must be packed on weekends/holidays.



My hunch is if there's any plans for building real estate that it will be in a long term master plan type roll out, in stages, with outside funding such as Peak is finally going to start doing at Mount Snow now closing in on 10 yrs after the 1st bought it.

The big things for Peak in this is that not only do they increase their potential customer base, but also they see their annual revenues increase by 25-30% (Peak typically has been doing a bit over 100 million in annual revenue the last few years)


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## ScottySkis (Nov 30, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> So if I buy a Hunter Season pass I can ski at all the other areas? If so it would be a lot cheaper than the granite pass I would think. Or maybe I read that wrong.



I hope so but I think you have to buy a multi season pass to ski or snowboard at others good plans now thinking of pass for next year.http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11113102


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## yeggous (Nov 30, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> I hope so but I think you have to buy a multi season pass to ski or snowboard at others good plans now thinking of pass for next year.http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11113102



What they did when they bought Wildcat was to include it on most passes, and gave others the chance to upgrade. I'd expect something similar. They'll probably just include them in the Nor'Easter pass going forward and give current Peak Resorts pass holders a chance to upgrade.

As a Granite Pass holder I am trying to care but I don't. Hunter is far away and this purchase is unlikely to impact me in any substantive way. I doubt any more New Yorkers are going to make the drive to New Hampshire as a result of this.


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## RichT (Nov 30, 2015)

I hope it helps the town, sux that anything related to the ski Mtn (T shirts, mugs etc) was only available at the Mtn. Maybe now the townspeople can get a little too! I always thought that if the Slutsky's could put a gas station and general store on the Mtn property they would of. The town of Hunter really has nothing right now.


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## Jully (Nov 30, 2015)

yeggous said:


> What they did when they bought Wildcat was to include it on most passes, and gave others the chance to upgrade. I'd expect something similar. They'll probably just include them in the Nor'Easter pass going forward and give current Peak Resorts pass holders a chance to upgrade.
> 
> As a Granite Pass holder I am trying to care but I don't. Hunter is far away and this purchase is unlikely to impact me in any substantive way. I doubt any more New Yorkers are going to make the drive to New Hampshire as a result of this.



I think it's really targeted at a combination to the Mount Snow folk. Maybe they'll offer another option for PA pass holders to link up to snow and Hunter.

I think it's a great financial move for Peaks. Won't impact the Boston crowd much, but should hopefully stabilize the company even further to ensure Wildcat has plenty of initial snowmaking $$.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 30, 2015)

Some takeaways I took from the conference call:

- Hunter gets about 275k to 300k skier visits a year

- Hunter spends about $600k in CapEx/year, but SKIS thinks it should be closer to $1M, so expect a bit more spending muscle

- SKIS doesn't think Hunter needs more snowmaking

- Prices will not be increased this season, basically NOTHING will be altered this season, as the "cusp" of the season is upon us

- Deal expected to close by Christmas

- Family who owned Hunter did so for ~50 years (I didn't realize it was the original owners still)

- Sale was essentially an off-market transaction (which I thought surprising)

- Hunters margin is roughly 22% and SKIS thinks they can boost this to the mid-to-high 20s.

- They'll drop an 8k soon with full financial details


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## thetrailboss (Nov 30, 2015)

Jully said:


> I think it's really targeted at a combination to the Mount Snow folk. Maybe they'll offer another option for PA pass holders to link up to snow and Hunter.
> 
> I think it's a great financial move for Peaks. Won't impact the Boston crowd much, but should hopefully stabilize the company even further to ensure Wildcat has plenty of initial snowmaking $$.



You hit the nail on the head IMHO. It will drive traffic to Snow.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 30, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Some takeaways I took from the conference call:
> 
> - Hunter gets about 275k to 300k skier visits a year
> 
> ...



Very interesting. And a 22% margin in such a tough industry is impressive.


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## SkiRay (Nov 30, 2015)

Wow. That is big news. Having grown up skiing there and meeting the family that ran the mountain for many years, its great that they have had the opportunity to get out when they can. Hunter is a great mountain when it is not crowded. Otherwise, the traffic on the slopes are more than dangerous. Funny, my wife said to me earlier - Mt Snow is the Hunter of Vermont but, bigger. Not that either mountain is bad. We love them both but, the crowds and the lack of ski/ride etiquette  have of craving smaller less traveled ski areas. We do go to Killington but, in the Spring when it's often less crowded and we have been to other places that too get big crowds but, travel there on the less busy days.  It will be good for Hunter I think and great for Mount Snow. Now, if Peaks can cut some glades and expand the terrain at Hunter, then that might help the mountain a bit.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 30, 2015)

Yawn


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## andrec10 (Nov 30, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Yawn



Then move along!


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## RichT (Nov 30, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Yawn


Yes go away then


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## gmcunni (Nov 30, 2015)

what are the hunter faithful saying?

DMC???


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> You hit the nail on the head IMHO. It will drive traffic to Snow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Definitely 

Bold move to corner NYC market share.

Compelling for their Pocono properties a bit too though.

I'm with Yeggous in that it does little to excite me as a granite pass holder other than the potential for additional capital coming our way. Could work in the opposite direction as well if this over leverages Peaks.

I do want to do a Catskills trip at least once, so the lift ticket savings may finally get me there, but price has never really been the reason I haven't gone there.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 30, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> what are the hunter faithful saying?
> 
> DMC???




He posted the link on Facebookcrappy before I sawt the lost on Az. I think it good move over all.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 30, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> what are the hunter faithful saying?
> *
> DMC???*



Hah!   He must be apoplectic.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 30, 2015)

DMC has been fairly critical of Hunters management in recent years.  

To be honest, it is at least a little sad seeing the original family sell the place.  Hunter might have been the last "major" original family owned ski area in the Northeast that's been sold off.

Outside of the payday I'm sure the Slutskys are a bit bummed out about this.  Generations of family memories tied up in the mountain.


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## RichT (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm thinking Orvelle and Izzy are rolling in their graves!


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## gmcunni (Nov 30, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> You hit the nail on the head IMHO. It will drive traffic to Snow.



i hope not.. crowded enough as is


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## x10003q (Dec 1, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Outside of the payday I'm sure the Slutskys are a bit bummed out about this.  Generations of family memories tied up in the mountain.



I would guess the children of Orville and Izzy decided that they actually wanted to retire and not work until they reached their 90s. They might be in their 60s or 70s.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Outside of the payday I'm sure the Slutskys are a bit bummed out about this.



I'm sure the $35,000,000 will go a long way to comfort their sadness.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 1, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Outside of the payday I'm sure the Slutskys are a bit bummed out about this.  Generations of family memories tied up in the mountain.



Later generations rarely have the same passion for running the family business as the founders.


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## marcski (Dec 1, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Later generations rarely have the same passion for running the family business as the founders.


It is usually the 3rd generation that loses interest and either sell out or run a business into the ground. Seems like they took option 1...which makes a whole hell of a lot of sense to me.


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## Harvey (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Hah!   He must be apoplectic.



"must be" ...based on... ?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 1, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Later generations rarely have the same passion for running the family business as the founders.



I'm aware

Not talking about the running of the business.  I'm talking about generations worth of family memories being around the resort.


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm aware
> 
> Not talking about the running of the business.  I'm talking about generations worth of family memories being around the resort.



No one after Orville and Izzy were even close to be enthusiastic about running the place. The current family were milking it for every penny they could sad to say!


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## deadheadskier (Dec 1, 2015)

Again, not talking about running the business. :lol:

I've worked for plenty of family run hospitality businesses. I'm well aware the enthusiasm doesn't always carry down generation to generation.

That said, there is almost always a significant amount of time spent as a family on property; more so than even regular guests.  

All I'm saying is that while I'm certain there is the relief of the burden of running the business and a very nice payday, there's also a complete change in way of life.


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> No one after Orville and Izzy were even close to be enthusiastic about running the place. The current family were milking it for every penny they could sad to say!




Kind of like what SKI Ltd and then ASC were doing with Mount Snow prior to them selling, after the more passionate, and at times certainly eclectic days when Walt Schoeneckt ran it!

Peak IMHO has done a wonderful job at both preserving the history and passion for the resort that made Mount Snow what it is, and at the same time, done plenty of needed upgrades without completely trying to reinvent the mountain into something that it isn't.

If Peak takes this approach with Hunter, my guess is that the vast majority of the Hunter regulars will be quite happy with Peak ownership, and new fans of Hunter will be created as well


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Kind of like what SKI Ltd and then ASC were doing with Mount Snow prior to them selling, after the more passionate, and at times certainly eclectic days when Walt Schoeneckt ran it!
> 
> Peak IMHO has done a wonderful job at both preserving the history and passion for the resort that made Mount Snow what it as, and at the same time, done plenty of needed upgrades without completely trying to reinvent the mountain into something that it isn't.
> 
> If Peak takes this approach with Hunter, my guess is that the vast majority of the Hunter regulars will be quite happy with Peak ownership, and new fans of Hunter will be created as well




I like your take on it! I hope your right! They seem like a cautious company, but also take some risks and seem to understand the passion of skiing and riding!


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> *The current family were milking it for every penny they could *sad to say!



SKIS management was respectful & complimentary towards the family, but if you can read between the lines (and the audience for such a call clearly can) it's obvious they thought the family didn't invest enough $$$ into Hunter.   A 60% per year difference in CapEx spending (what SKIS will invest versus what the family was investing) is pretty substantial.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> SKIS management was respectful & complimentary towards the family, but if you can read between the lines (and the audience for such a call clearly can) it's obvious they thought the family didn't invest enough $$$ into Hunter.   A 60% per year difference in CapEx spending (what SKIS will invest versus what the family was investing) is pretty substantial.



So how do they plan to increase profits while also increasing capital expenditures?


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> SKIS management was respectful & complimentary towards the family, but if you can read between the lines (and the audience for such a call clearly can) it's obvious they thought the family didn't invest enough $$$ into Hunter.   A 60% per year difference in CapEx spending (what SKIS will invest versus what the family was investing) is pretty substantial.



Hence the milking! For a company to come in and say this, it speaks volumes what Hunter can be! Maybe we will get some nice new bathrooms!


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## Domeskier (Dec 1, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> So how do they plan to increase profits while also increasing capital expenditures?



More busloads of skiers from NYC?


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> So how do they plan to increase profits while also increasing capital expenditures?



At roughly 285k skier visits, a $385k increase in CapEx doesn't require a major increase in prices.

That said, after SKIS buys ski resorts, prices do go up.  So Hunter will be getting more expensive in coming years.


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## x10003q (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> Hence the milking! For a company to come in and say this, it speaks volumes what Hunter can be! Maybe we will get some nice new bathrooms!



Milking is a bit of a reach. They have been working at Hunter almost as long as the brothers. In many family businesses the next generation is way under paid with high expectations of long hours and little say in the business until the founders give up control - which is many times never or until they pass away. If you are in the ski business and your mountain is running a 22% return you should get paid.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 1, 2015)

I buy a pass if including Hunter and mountain snow for a reason a le price like 700$.


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## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> I buy a pass if including Hunter and mountain snow for a reason a le price like 700$.



That's what you expect to pay for SKIS Granite Pass. Add in Mt Snow and the price doubles.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 1, 2015)

I would come out with four passes:
1) A pass that includes all Peak Resorts. $$$$
2) A pass that includes Hunter and Mt. Snow.  $$$
3) A pass that includes Hunter and 7 days of non-holiday skiing at Mt. Snow. $$
4) Hunter only.  $


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> I buy a pass if including Hunter and mountain snow for a reason a le price like 700$.



Don't hold your breathe on that one Scotty!!  Currently, the only multi-resort pass that Peak offers for non college students, that includes Mount Snow is their Nor'easter Pass.  Early pricing last year (Purchase by April 15th if I recall the 1st price increase date correctly) was about $1150 by the time you added in taxes.

Peak, via the Mount Snow admins, has been quite clear, that they are happy with their price point, for the quality of the product they offer, and see no reason to change that thought process in the near future at least, even though other resorts nearby, have pricing structures that are less or offer some added benefits (This is an almost annual topic, especially when you look at family pricing structure).

My guess is at Hunter, you'll likely see a lesser priced pass that will include Hunter and Jack Frost/Big Boulder, that might also include a couple of days, or discounted days at Mount Snow.  To get both Mount Snow and Hunter on a single pass, chances are that you'll be looking at their Nor'easter pass.

What you'll also likely see at Hunter, as Peak gets a few seasons of operations under their belts, is a steady increase in the infa-structure such as annual upgrades to the snowmaking system (snowgun replacement, pipe replacement, pumping and air efficiency increases), and bunch of upgrades to the lodge and food and beverage facilities, and lots of other day to day things that don't really seem all that "impressive" on paper, but you notice when you're there and using them.  That has tended to be the Peak model of operations, make the snow surface as good as it can be, and provide the guests, the majority of whom are day trippers, a good experience while they're there for the day


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## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Don't hold your breathe on that one Scotty!!  Currently, the only multi-resort pass that Peak offers for non college students, that includes Mount Snow is their Nor'easter Pass.  Early pricing last year (Purchase by April 15th if I recall the 1st price increase date correctly) was about $1150 by the time you added in taxes.
> 
> Peak, via the Mount Snow admins, has been quite clear, that they are happy with their price point, for the quality of the product they offer, and see no reason to change that thought process in the near future at least, even though other resorts nearby, have pricing structures that are less or offer some added benefits (This is an almost annual topic, especially when you look at family pricing structure).
> 
> ...



If you want to avoid tax, buy the pass online through one of the NH mountains.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 1, 2015)

Certain family members care more than people think..
Orvilles memorial service a couple family members talked about keeping it in the family..

I worry about my friends who's lives are tied to the ski area..
And how it will affect my town.

Hunter and Tannersville are doing great - more and more businesses are opening and doing well.
The towns are getting cleaned up nicely..  

not nearly as bad as people make it out to be..


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2015)

yeggous said:


> If you want to avoid tax, buy the pass online through one of the NH mountains.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Yup, that's an option

As though is often the case in March and early April when I'm buying the following season's passes for my family, one of my kids has lost their pass and/or ran out of the $$ I put on their passes for lunch, etc so I'm already in the pass office at Mount Snow and being someone who tends to like instant gratification, even if it benefits the folks in Montpelier at bit more than just the $$$ that I already pay them annually in property taxes and various other VT taxes, I'm buying it on site and getting my new pass as soon as the printer does it's thing and my VISA card has been swiped!


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2015)

yeggous said:


> If you want to avoid tax, buy the pass online through one of the NH mountains.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Yup,  I know.

Part of me is all for doing that.  Another part of me, the part that is a part time resident of VT, and as a result uses more of the state and town wide services, than many other do, does feel some obligation in paying the taxes on a product that I can honestly say that I'm really unlikely to use in any other state than VT (heck, since Peak bought Mount Snow, I've used my Nor'easter's only 1 once, at Crotched, outside of VT, an probably 300-350 times in VT.

As much as I am all in favor of lower taxes,  there is a part of me that does realize that *SOME* of that tax $$ does have a direct effect back in a small town local economy/gov't system, a small town that is very important to me and my family, so I do feel some sense of social/civic obligation to swipe my VISA in VT, rather than enter it's #'s online in on say Wildcat's website(Even though I'm friends with Wildcat's GM and he'd probably like to see 4 extra Nor'easter's sold though "his" mountain  )


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Certain family members care more than people think..
> Orvilles memorial service a couple family members talked about keeping it in the family..
> 
> I worry about my friends who's lives are tied to the ski area..
> ...



DMC, Just going by a few people that used to work there and left because of the BS. I should not say they all are milking it, but the image is justified somewhat since they have not been spending enough on Maintenence (as per Peak). 600K compared to 1 million is a big difference. 

It will and is a shock though, since I have skied there since 1972 and the Slutsky's are all I remember. You have to hope change is good!


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## goldsbar (Dec 1, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Very interesting. And a 22% margin in such a tough industry is impressive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



This really surprised me.  What surprised me even more is that SKIS overall portfolio is at 25%.  Don't know if that's just ski operations or includes other items.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> DMC



Wait, Funky_Catskills is DMC?



drjeff said:


> Another part of me, the part that is a part time resident of VT, and as a result uses more of the state and town wide services, than many other do, does feel some obligation in paying the taxes on a product that I can honestly say that I'm really unlikely to use in any other state than VT









Not to mention, sales taxes bear absolutely no correlation to the utility of a product sold.  It's simply a mathematical revenue tool, which is why some states can have no sales tax.  

Also, you might be the first Vermonter I've ever encountered who doesn't believe he/she is taxed enough versus other state's residents.

EDIT:  I missed the "part-time" bit.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> DMC, Just going by a few people that used to work there and left because of the BS. I should not say they all are milking it, but the image is justified somewhat since they have not been spending enough on Maintenence (as per Peak). 600K compared to 1 million is a big difference.
> 
> It will and is a shock though, since I have skied there since 1972 and the Slutsky's are all I remember. You have to hope change is good!



they can be cheap as fukc...
I'm talking more about the younger Slutskys...
I also know a ton of people that have been working there for 20 years..  Some can handle it - some can't..

Going to miss the family run area...


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## gmcunni (Dec 1, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> they can be cheap as fukc...
> I'm talking more about the younger Slutskys...



does that leave door oopen for peak to make investments which could improve (not that i know if it needs it) the mountain?

green bubble lift?


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## JimG. (Dec 1, 2015)

Now it seems like no coincidence I went with the NYS 3 in 1. Will be interested to see how the place changes this year and to see how the other resorts there react. I have a strong feeling I will not like the big corporate Hunter that will be created. And I'm sure the food will now suck. And that the season will be shortened even more.

This may be what drives me from NYS to Killington. A better mountain, closer to other favorite VT areas and the commitment to a long season.


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## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Now it seems like no coincidence I went with the NYS 3 in 1. Will be interested to see how the place changes this year and to see how the other resorts there react. I have a strong feeling I will not like the big corporate Hunter that will be created. And I'm sure the food will now suck. And that the season will be shortened even more.
> 
> This may be what drives me from NYS to Killington. A better mountain, closer to other favorite VT areas and the commitment to a long season.



To give you some perspective from the SKIS take-over of AttiCat:
- prices markedly increased after a couple years (and have continued to do so outpacing inflation)
- the season shrank at Attitash and grew at Wildcat. this was due to a choice to focus on one area.
- food quality improved, but only in step with the price increases


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## catskillman (Dec 1, 2015)

drjeff said:


> My hunch is if there's any plans for building real estate that it will be in a long term master plan type roll out, in stages, with outside funding such as Peak is finally going to start doing at Mount Snow now closing in on 10 yrs after the 1st bought it.
> 
> The big things for Peak in this is that not only do they increase their potential customer base, but also they see their annual revenues increase by 25-30% (Peak typically has been doing a bit over 100 million in annual revenue the last few years)



Real estate expansion was already in the works,.....  Building of condo's planned for west side, I understand work has already started, and next season a base lodge on the west side.......


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I have a strong feeling I will not like the big corporate Hunter that will be created. And* I'm sure the food will now suck.* And that the season will be shortened even more.



Actually, while not giving many specifics, food & beverage was one area that SKIS mentioned they thought Hunter could be improved.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Actually, while not giving many specifics, food & beverage was one area that SKIS mentioned they thought Hunter could be improve
> 
> Hunter food is good for ski area deffinly better then most of areas I been to.


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> BenedictGomez said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, while not giving many specifics, food & beverage was one area that SKIS mentioned they thought Hunter could be improve
> ...


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> I have to agree with Scotty. Have you tried Gore and Whiteface Food?! and the prices!



I havent been to Hunter in years, so I cant comment on the food, but that's what SKIS said, whether that means adding a fancy restaurant or a nicer bar or the food itself, I dont know.

Whiteface's cafeteria food used to be decent about 3 years ago, but they changed the vendor I'm guessing as it dropped in quality while simultaneously increasing in price (a terrible combo).  The Cloudspin Lounge food is okay though, and I never eat at the foofy downstairs bar.

Gore's cafeteria food is pretty sad; that area actually_ looks_ government run.  But the Gore bar food is pretty good (the wait times and service however are brutal).


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## Smellytele (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Gore's cafeteria food is pretty sad; that area actually_ looks_ government run.  But the Gore bar food is pretty good (the wait times and service however are brutal).



I have sat in the bar with my family waiting for someone just to stop by the table for 15 minutes and got up and walked out. Was horrible. This was a Friday and not that busy.


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## SnowRock (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Actually, while not giving many specifics, food & beverage was one area that SKIS mentioned they thought Hunter could be improved.



The food itself at Hunter is decent, the facilities are where I personally think Hunter could use quite a bit of work as someone that is up there about 5 times a season.


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## danimals (Dec 1, 2015)

I wonder if this will do anything to put the expansion back on the table.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

danimals said:


> *I wonder if this will do anything to put the expansion back on the table.*



It's definitely not impossible.  

At the end of the day the blocking of "expansion" is ostensibly an environmental issue, and the politics of New York are such that the environmentalists are in bed with the politicians.  But I imagine SKIS has the financial muscle to make "campaign contributions" to the correct people.   Maybe get some EB-5 money in there to "create jobs" (LOL) and pay for the proper BS "environmental offsets" to lubricate that process should they choose to do so.  One can dream.  I'd definitely return to Hunter should that happen.


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## catskillman (Dec 1, 2015)

Hunter was debt free, and that is why the capital $ were limited in many ways, not that the family was hording.  In fact, they were not paid a lot and of the owners children only David really worked, and he worked very hard and lone....  

He skis like a freight train coming through, will miss him... he has character and is a nice guy. The other sons are around.... and Orvilles sons are active in town.  I would not know Orvilles daughter is she was sitting next to me wearing a name tag.


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## Smellytele (Dec 1, 2015)

Are we using their stock symbol (SKIS) as their name?


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## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Are we using their stock symbol (SKIS) as their name?



yes


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Hunter was debt free, and that is why the capital $ were limited in many ways, not that the family was hording.  In fact, they were not paid a lot and of the owners children only David really worked, and he worked very hard and lone....
> 
> He skis like a freight train coming through, will miss him... he has character and is a nice guy. The other sons are around.... and Orvilles sons are active in town.  I would not know Orvilles daughter is she was sitting next to me wearing a name tag.




I do have to say David was hands on. Others...not so much.


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## gmcunni (Dec 1, 2015)

is there any chance the family stays on in some mgt capacity or does Peak typically bring in their own to run/do everything?


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## drjeff (Dec 1, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> is there any chance the family stays on in some mgt capacity or does Peak typically bring in their own to run/do everything?



Who knows.  In the Past Peak has both brought new people in post acquisition sometimes and kept the same people in places other times.

Will probably depend on a host of things from is there any language in the purchase agreement about keeping people on in the same roll, how the Peak management folks feel about the folks at Hunter in various positions, and lastly does Peak have any people, likely within their current organization, who they feel are ready for a "promotion" and can handle any new roll they'd be asked to do? Peak has been "grooming" a few younger people within their organization the past few years for larger management and operations rolls. Is this the time and/or right place for one/some of them to be asked to step up??  Probably only time and Tim Boyd know that answer right now....


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## Jully (Dec 1, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Now it seems like no coincidence I went with the NYS 3 in 1. Will be interested to see how the place changes this year and to see how the other resorts there react. I have a strong feeling I will not like the big corporate Hunter that will be created. And I'm sure the food will now suck. And that the season will be shortened even more.
> 
> This may be what drives me from NYS to Killington. A better mountain, closer to other favorite VT areas and the commitment to a long season.



Peaks doesn't do 'corporate' much at all in my opinion with dealings with their NH mountains. Haven't been to Snow since their takeover however.

But Wildcat doesn't feel like a big corporate mountain at all. Employees are all friendly and pretty familiar either.

Hunter has an aggressive snowmaking reputation as well (though less so in the last few years it would seem) and I wouldn't be surprised if Peaks tries to use that to their advantage and build more reputation and branding off it.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 1, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> is there any chance the family stays on in some mgt capacity or does Peak typically bring in their own to run/do everything?



In most acquisitions (in any industry), some key personal will stay for some agreed upon time (6 months, 1 year) to help in the transition, often as part of the structure of the deal.  I would be shocked if this is not the case with Hunter. 

 In any event, it was stressed that almost nothing is going to change this ski season, as the cusp of the season is upon us, and they want to "learn" Hunter before they better know where they wish to implement changes.


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## catskillman (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> In most acquisitions (in any industry), some key personal will stay for some agreed upon time (6 months, 1 year) to help in the transition, often as part of the structure of the deal.  I would be shocked if this is not the case with Hunter.
> 
> In any event, it was stressed that almost nothing is going to change this ski season, as the cusp of the season is upon us, and they want to "learn" Hunter before they better know where they wish to implement changes.


the "local" rumors are sad..... many are worried, there is not much work in the area if they lose their jobs.  However, as the new owners will find out it is hard to get folks to work in the area at seasonal work as they lose government benefits....  Mainly management are worried.... HR, the ski school director that never skis anymore (too overworked, but a great person), the cooks (who do a great job - the food is a good as it possibly can be there, marketing...  etc....  Time will tell..........


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## catskillman (Dec 1, 2015)

And I should mention that they could not possibly raise the prices at the bar any more.  They are totally out of control now!!!!!!!!


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## Newpylong (Dec 1, 2015)

Jully said:


> Peaks doesn't do 'corporate' much at all in my opinion with dealings with their NH mountains. Haven't been to Snow since their takeover however.
> 
> But Wildcat doesn't feel like a big corporate mountain at all. Employees are all friendly and pretty familiar either.
> 
> Hunter has an aggressive snowmaking reputation as well (though less so in the last few years it would seem) and I wouldn't be surprised if Peaks tries to use that to their advantage and build more reputation and branding off it.



Peak's areas as far as I can tell operate about as independently from each other as you can get, outside of sharing of snow technology, etc. It is hard pressed to tell they are part of a larger group.

 Their attention to alleviating existing shortcomings vs reinventing the wheel  works well imho.


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## JimG. (Dec 1, 2015)

Good feedback to what I threw out there thanks all.

If they keep the food quality and prices and renovate the lodge completely that would be a huge upgrade. They would be smart to keep an "open early/close later" mentality. Having Wildcat, my favorite NH hill, as a sister mountain is a plus. Wonder if they will offer discounts to Hunter pass holders who visit.

If they were to decide to drop a few million to build the infrastructure needed to blow snow on Annapurna on the Westside it would make my season pass purchase decision much more difficult next year.


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## Newpylong (Dec 1, 2015)

Not to go off track but what additional infrastructure is needed to make snow there? Pipes are there and used to be used all the time. Water and air capacity seem to be there. I thought it was a question of priority...


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## Harvey (Dec 1, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I havent been to Hunter in years, so I cant comment on the food, but that's what SKIS said, whether that means adding a fancy restaurant or a nicer bar or the food itself, I dont know.
> 
> Whiteface's cafeteria food used to be decent about 3 years ago, but they changed the vendor I'm guessing as it dropped in quality while simultaneously increasing in price (a terrible combo).  The Cloudspin Lounge food is okay though, and I never eat at the foofy downstairs bar.
> 
> Gore's cafeteria food is pretty sad; that area actually_ looks_ government run.  But the Gore bar food is pretty good (the wait times and service however are brutal).



Gore and Whiteface food is handled by the same vendor, Centerplate, and has been for many years.


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## JimG. (Dec 1, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Not to go off track but what additional infrastructure is needed to make snow there? Pipes are there and used to be used all the time. Water and air capacity seem to be there. I thought it was a question of priority...



I thought so too and assumed it was a matter of priorities, but I have been told that several million dollars in capital is required to refit and maintain the system just to get water over there now and that it isn't going to happen. But that was before the sale.


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I thought so too and assumed it was a matter of priorities, but I have been told that several million dollars in capital is required to refit and maintain the system just to get water over there now and that it isn't going to happen. But that was before the sale.



David actually said last year they just were not going to get to it. Came down to cost and priorities.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 1, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> I do have to say David was hands on. Others...not so much.



There's other members of the family that work there..


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## andrec10 (Dec 1, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> There's other members of the family that work there..




I know, just not as visible. Sarah was always very helpful in the office.


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## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Good feedback to what I threw out there thanks all.
> 
> If they keep the food quality and prices and renovate the lodge completely that would be a huge upgrade. They would be smart to keep an "open early/close later" mentality. Having Wildcat, my favorite NH hill, as a sister mountain is a plus. Wonder if they will offer discounts to Hunter pass holders who visit.
> 
> If they were to decide to drop a few million to build the infrastructure needed to blow snow on Annapurna on the Westside it would make my season pass purchase decision much more difficult next year.



If you have a pass to any SKIS area, you get a free discount card to all their other areas. These typically come loaded with a free ticket too. I assume this would apply to Hunter after the closing.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Creakyknees (Dec 1, 2015)

*26 Great Years*

After 26 years of having a season pass at Hunter I personally like Hunter the way it is and I would not change a thing; THIS SUCKS.  


I'm concerned about the skiing. We don't need more trails cut, we need to be concerned what the new management is going to do with snowmaking and grooming. The years of experience that the employees at Hunter has with maintaining the skiing surface conditions is something that needs to be handed down *over  time*. I hope the new management recognizes how important the head snowmakersand groomers are to the Hunter skiing experience. 

All we need is a season pass to ski Hunter this should keep the price down. We don't need a reciprocating pass for other ski areas.

It's unfortunate but snowmaking will be decided on the $$$$$ and not the temps. 
Get the ice-skates ready we are going skating.

How is Mount Snow with snowmaking, conservative? liberal? what day did Mount Snow close the last two seasons?

The one good thing is maybe we will have less grooming and more bumps we could only hope.

What is going to happen to all the people with lifetime season passes?

Later,
Mr. I'm ready for another 26 years at Hunter


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## yeggous (Dec 1, 2015)

Creakyknees said:


> After 26 years of having a season pass at Hunter I personally like Hunter the way it is and I would not change a thing; THIS SUCKS.
> 
> 
> I'm concerned about the skiing. We don't need more trails cut, we need to be concerned what the new management is going to do with snowmaking and grooming. The years of experience that the employees at Hunter has with maintaining the skiing surface conditions is something that needs to be handed down *over  time*. I hope the new management recognizes how important the head snowmakersand groomers are to the Hunter skiing experience.
> ...



I can answer the lifetime season pass question. There is already a thread on this:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/86146-Wildcat-Lifetime-Season-Pass-Controversy


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 2, 2015)

Newpylong said:


> Not to go off track but* what additional infrastructure is needed to make snow there? *Pipes are there and used to be used all the time. Water and air capacity seem to be there. I thought it was a question of priority...



SKIS said several times that snowmaking is a strength of Hunter and that it's pretty much good to go as is, so snowmaking is definitely not going to be an initial area of major investment where they think they need to upgrade.   

Personally, if I were forced to guess, I'm thinking you'll see completely renovated food and bevy areas, retail and shops, and placement of additional ancillary revenue opportunities, things of that nature.  Obviously not this season though.



Harvey said:


> Gore and *Whiteface food is handled by the same vendor, Centerplate, and has been for many years.*



Well the change from 3 seasons ago to 2 seasons ago was pretty drastic.  It went from decent and somewhat (YOMV) reasonable, to crappy and unreasonably expensive.   So much so crappy and expensive that I did something I hadn't done at any ski area in years, I actually brought my own lunch several times.   Frankly, expensive I can deal with; expensive and low-grade dog food I cannot.


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## Newpylong (Dec 2, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I thought so too and assumed it was a matter of priorities, but I have been told that several million dollars in capital is required to refit and maintain the system just to get water over there now and that it isn't going to happen. But that was before the sale.



Not doubting that but I would take that with a grain of salt. Water should already be to the valve box at the top of 44 where it splits to Anna any issues past that would be simple pipe repairs not multi million dollars. I think it's a matter of priority. Both 44 and Anna take a tremendous amount of snowmaking to cover.


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## Harvey (Dec 2, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Well the change from 3 seasons ago to 2 seasons ago was pretty drastic.  It went from decent and somewhat (YOMV) reasonable, to crappy and unreasonably expensive.   So much so crappy and expensive that I did something I hadn't done at any ski area in years, I actually brought my own lunch several times.   Frankly, expensive I can deal with; expensive and low-grade dog food I cannot.



There was a new contract signed 3 years ago so maybe that had something to do with it.  I'm not a big fan of the food at Gore, and the last time I ate at WF was over 3 years ago and I found it to be pretty good. So that is consistent with what you are saying.  At the time I remember wondering how it could be so different.


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## Harvey (Dec 2, 2015)

Who was granted lifetime passes? I'm thinking they may be a casualty.


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## drjeff (Dec 2, 2015)

Creakyknees said:


> After 26 years of having a season pass at Hunter I personally like Hunter the way it is and I would not change a thing; THIS SUCKS.
> 
> 
> I'm concerned about the skiing. We don't need more trails cut, we need to be concerned what the new management is going to do with snowmaking and grooming. The years of experience that the employees at Hunter has with maintaining the skiing surface conditions is something that needs to be handed down *over  time*. I hope the new management recognizes how important the head snowmakersand groomers are to the Hunter skiing experience.
> ...



Here you go from a Mount Snow season pass holder from long before Peak bought them, and what I've seen since they bought them.

1st and foremost, Peak kept plenty of the Mount Snow management and operations folks when the bought them from ASC - the GM has been at Mount Snow for around 30 years (with 10 + as GM), the head of Mountain Ops has been there for close to 15 years, the head snowmaker has been there for 30+ years, the head of lifts for 25+ years, the head of the ski school for 20 years or so, etc, etc, etc.  I doubt that Peak will just fire everyone from Hunter and start fresh with their own personel

Peak Resorts main philosophy is that they're a ski company not a real estate company - their portfolio of resorts is made up mainly of day and some weekend trip resorts, not full week long ski vacation resorts, they realize that it's about the snow surface that gets them their main business target, the day and weekend trip market.

At Mount Snow, what I've seen 1st hand is their snowmaking philosophy is basically once you get past November 1st, if you have a GOOD window of snowmaking time, it's guns on, Once you get past November 15th or so, it's guns on at most any window to ensure Thanksgiving weekend skiing.  End of season wise, they'll publically state that they'll keep operating through the 1st weekend in April, and then after that it's all based on the amount of snow left on the hill AND the amount of business the previous weekend and to a lesser extent the weather forecast for the following weekend.  Short of 4 season ago (I believe that's when we had the 80-90 degree week the 3rd week of March that decimated the entire Northeast spring skiing situation that year, we've been skiing through the 2nd or 3rd weekend in April every year that Peak has owned them.

Peak likes to make snow,  but they also like to make "smart snow" in that they'll have a target amount of snow that they want to put down on trails to keep them going through their projected closing date, and they'll adjust production accordingly in that there are sometimes when they have a decent base already on all snowmaking trails and only a decent window to make snow, but a forecast of a GREAT window to make snow in a day or 2, they may not make snow when temps are decent but wait until the temps and production potential is GREAT to really fatten up certain trails for spring skiing

Lifetime passes..... Probably depends on wording in the purchase agreement that the folks at Hunter made with the folks at Peak

All in all, I've been VERY happy with Peak ownership at Mount Snow, and I'm typically a 40-50 day a year skier at Mount Snow with both of my kids products of their ski school programs and now race team


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## RichT (Dec 2, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> SKIS said several times that snowmaking is a strength of Hunter and that it's pretty much good to go as is, so snowmaking is definitely not going to be an initial area of major investment where they think they need to upgrade.
> 
> Personally, if I were forced to guess, I'm thinking you'll see completely renovated food and bevy areas, retail and shops, and placement of additional ancillary revenue opportunities, things of that nature.  Obviously not this season though.
> 
> ...


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## catskillman (Dec 2, 2015)

Harvey said:


> Who was granted lifetime passes? I'm thinking they may be a casualty.


  You would be surprised!!  If you worked there for 12 years on the courtesy patrol you got one, and there were a lot of other deals.  They also we available for purchase at one time.


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## JimG. (Dec 2, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> David actually said last year they just were not going to get to it. Came down to cost and priorities.



Just didn't want to spend the money; I get it.


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## JimG. (Dec 2, 2015)

If PEAK likes to make snow then they made a good purchase.


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## Scruffy (Dec 2, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Here you go from a Mount Snow season pass holder from long before Peak bought them, and what I've seen since they bought them.
> 
> 1st and foremost, Peak kept plenty of the Mount Snow management and operations folks when the bought them from ASC - the GM has been at Mount Snow for around 30 years (with 10 + as GM), the head of Mountain Ops has been there for close to 15 years, the head snowmaker has been there for 30+ years, the head of lifts for 25+ years, the head of the ski school for 20 years or so, etc, etc, etc.  I doubt that Peak will just fire everyone from Hunter and start fresh with their own personel
> 
> ...



Good to hear, Hunter does not need too much "help" with their mountain ops policies; they do a really good job providing a high level ski experience for the size mountain they are. Part of that is their decisions on which trails not to groom and leave bumped, and keep open, even when they are an icy mogul mess - hope they don't go soft and close or groom these trails, thinking they need to pander to a wider number of people who can ski them.

The lodge is 1970's vintage, and the basement level reminds me of a bus  terminal, but it's functional and it works. It doesn't keep anyone away,  so a ROI there would be iffy at best. The summit "bomb shelter" of a  lodge could use a facelift .

The food is decent, it's more homespun than the usual crap at you get these days at bigger mountains in the east (the western states big ski resorts seem to do a better job overall; although Stowe's summit lodges isn't bad), but if Hunter's food services are profitable, don't mess it up - and keep the Sushi Bar !

Their ski shop is top notch, so they don't need help there.

They just pumped 1.5 mil into snowmaking on the front side, it would be nice to see that sort of investment on the west side as well.

Get Anna open; fully commit to 44, plant some trees on 44 so the wind doesn't scour it clean to the rocks, so they can blow more there; get the X trail open; open the "trail" skiers right of Lower K27- these would be a good use for investment $$s, from a skier's point of view.


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## JimG. (Dec 2, 2015)

Harvey said:


> Who was granted lifetime passes? I'm thinking they may be a casualty.



I know several people who have them. Seems to be an issue with every sale like this.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 2, 2015)

what does lifetime even mean...


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## SnowRock (Dec 2, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> The lodge is 1970's vintage, and the basement level reminds me of a bus  terminal, but it's functional and it works. It doesn't keep anyone away,  so a ROI there would be iffy at best. The summit "bomb shelter" of a  lodge could use a facelift .


While its not my area of expertise I think a face-lift to the lodge would not be about people who are kept away... but to better loosen dollars from the people that are already there. N of 1 but I sort of loathe the bar area set-up and often will just head down to the dutch in Saugerties for my beer and burger on the way home. I agree functionally its totally fine but I imagine a company like PEAK might think more could be done to generate some more money.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 2, 2015)

Maybe

The lodge improvements and at both Wildcat and Attitash have been pretty minor.  What they have at both is serviceable, but could be a lot better.  I've got mixed feelings there.  I'd love a great new bar at Wildcat, but also enjoy the cheap season pass.  

The facility they built at Crotched is super functional, but maybe the ugliest ski base lodge in all of New England.


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## Smellytele (Dec 2, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> The facility they built at Crotched is super functional, but maybe the ugliest ski base lodge in all of New England.



It is a warehouse building with its very high ceilings. The bar is separated from the rest of the open space lodge by fencing.


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## Puck it (Dec 2, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> It is a warehouse building with its very high ceilings. The bar is separated from the rest of the open space lodge by fencing.


Sounds worse than the old Cannon bar.


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## Smellytele (Dec 2, 2015)

Puck it said:


> Sounds worse than the old Cannon bar.



Which one? The one in the basement which was worse than the semi old one in the middle of the lodge.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 2, 2015)

It's hard to argue with this level of snowmaking:


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 2, 2015)

I personally love the base lodge..
I'm a big fan of Mid Century Modern..


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## andrec10 (Dec 2, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I personally love the base lodge..
> I'm a big fan of Mid Century Modern..



I like the base lodge as well. New bathrooms would be a great start! Especially in the summit lodge!


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## john1200c (Dec 2, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> It's hard to argue with this level of snowmaking:



What mountain is that in your picture?


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## yeggous (Dec 2, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> It's hard to argue with this level of snowmaking:
> 
> View attachment 18026



When was this? I'm impressed.

That's the first photo of the place I have ever seen. That is a weird layout. How do you get any sustained vertical out of that place? It looks like a bunch of little learning hills stacked on top of each other.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 2, 2015)

john1200c said:


> What mountain is that in your picture?


Hunter!  At least that's what Google said.  Is it not Hunter?


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## john1200c (Dec 2, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Hunter!  At least that's what Google said.  Is it not Hunter?



Oh no idea.  I thought you may have been posting a picture of another Peak Resorts ski area to show their snowmaking capabilities...  It probably is Hunter.  I just looked at their trail map it looks similar...


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## VTKilarney (Dec 2, 2015)

I posted it to show that whatever system is in place is pretty darned impressive.  It may need some preventative maintenance but it clearly packs a punch.


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## Scruffy (Dec 2, 2015)

yeggous said:


> When was this? I'm impressed.
> 
> That's the first photo of the place I have ever seen. That is a weird layout. *How do you get any sustained vertical out of that place? *It looks like a bunch of little learning hills stacked on top of each other.



The back side (west side), not pictured.


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 2, 2015)

yeggous said:


> When was this? I'm impressed.
> 
> That's the first photo of the place I have ever seen. That is a weird layout. How do you get any sustained vertical out of that place? It looks like a bunch of little learning hills stacked on top of each other.



Expert side (West Side) is straight falline


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## Scruffy (Dec 2, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> It's hard to argue with this level of snowmaking:



At one time they where trying to expand into that bowl on the left in that picture. They were trying to do a land swap with the state for some of their land on the west side, but the state would not play ball.
Your looking at 1600' vert as it is now. If they could expand into that bowl, Hunter would rival any other resort in the east.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 2, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I know several people who have them. Seems to be an issue with every sale like this.





john1200c said:


> What mountain is that in your picture?



Hunter


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## ScottySkis (Dec 2, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I know several people who have them. Seems to be an issue with every sale like this.





Scruffy said:


> At one time they where trying to expand into that bowl on the left in that picture. They were trying to do a land swap with the state for some of their land on the west side, but the state would not play ball.
> Your looking at 1600' vert as it is now. If they could expand into that bowl, Hunter would rival any other resort in the east.



He's it be awesome. Learn from hiking that Catskills mountain s are much more bigger then their trails at various hills.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 2, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> At one time they where trying to expand into that bowl on the left in that picture. They were trying to do a land swap with the state for some of their land on the west side, but the state would not play ball.
> Your looking at 1600' vert as it is now. If they could expand into that bowl,* Hunter would rival any other resort in the east.*



It would be really cool, but lets not get all cray-cray.   The vert would be much better, but they'd realistically likely be pretty limited with what they could do even if they had access.  It is too bad that the Eco-extremists have the politicians by the purse-strings through.


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## Jully (Dec 2, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> It would be really cool, but lets not get all cray-cray.   The vert would be much better, but they'd realistically likely be pretty limited with what they could do even if they had access.  It is too bad that the Eco-extremists have the politicians by the purse-strings through.



+1


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## Funky_Catskills (Dec 3, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> It would be really cool, but lets not get all cray-cray.   The vert would be much better, but they'd realistically likely be pretty limited with what they could do even if they had access.  It is too bad that the Eco-extremists have the politicians by the purse-strings through.



Hunter owns into the what we call the "ravine"...  
There has been some log clearing from lately..  Some of the dying tree from some insect..

the also own the property next to Anna Purna.. 

it could be done..


----------



## mriceyman (Dec 3, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> At one time they where trying to expand into that bowl on the left in that picture. They were trying to do a land swap with the state for some of their land on the west side, but the state would not play ball.
> Your looking at 1600' vert as it is now. If they could expand into that bowl, Hunter would rival any other resort in the east.



If that were to happen they would be in a totally different ballpark skiing wise. Would make the place awesome imo


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Hunter owns into the what we call the "ravine"...
> There has been some log clearing from lately..  Some of the dying tree from some insect..
> 
> the also own the property next to Anna Purna..
> ...



Do they own anything above where the current lifts summit?  I've never been to Hunter, but my understanding is there is a fair bit of unused vertical yes?

How much of the physical mountain lies within the "Forever Wild" region of the Catskills?


----------



## Mapnut (Dec 3, 2015)

yeggous; That is a weird layout. How do you get any sustained vertical out of that place? It looks like a bunch of little learning hills stacked on top of each other.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Actually the 1500-foot vertical of the two or three runs on either side of the high-speed 6-pack (you can probably figure out on the photo where that goes) is pretty good sustained vertical too. Not exactly fall-line, but no flats. It's actually steeper toward the bottom. 1300' fall-line vertical on the west side.
> (The 1600' vertical has to be measured to the bottom of the bunny slopes in the foreground.)


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 3, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Do they own anything above where the current lifts summit?  I've never been to Hunter, but my understanding is there is a fair bit of unused vertical yes?
> 
> How much of the physical mountain lies within the "Forever Wildcat" region of the Catskills?



They do.. 
We live in the Catskill Forest Preserve.  But i think Forever wild is only for land owned by the state..


----------



## jimk (Dec 3, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I personally love the base lodge..
> I'm a big fan of Mid Century Modern..



There's a guy on the wall of fame with the same name as me:grin:




Friend of the family, from March 2008:


----------



## SIKSKIER (Dec 3, 2015)

Harvey said:


> Gore and Whiteface food is handled by the same vendor, Centerplate, and has been for many years.



They run Cannons also.


----------



## EPB (Dec 3, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> It would be really cool, but lets not get all cray-cray.   The vert would be much better, but they'd realistically likely be pretty limited with what they could do even if they had access.  It is too bad that the Eco-extremists have the politicians by the purse-strings through.



BG - the solution is simple. NY users a miles-based system, right? They just need to clear cut some sections of the existing footprint to buy more mileage...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 3, 2015)

There's been a thinning of trees on town owned land adjacent to the ski area due to weevils or some shti...


----------



## catskillman (Dec 3, 2015)

This just in:
Have you heard the exciting news?  Hunter Mountain is going to be a member of 
the *Peak Resorts* family of resorts!  What does 
this mean for you as a Hunter Mountain season passholder? Reciprocal ticket 
benefits, events, discounts and more at six additional ski & snowboard 
destinations across the Northeast.     

Peak Resorts is excited to 
welcome Hunter Mountain to its portfolio of resorts.  Now through December 18th, 
all 2015-2016 Hunter Mountain season passes will be valid at Mount Snow every 
day with the exception of Saturdays.  Even if you have a Five or Six Day pass, 
it will be valid at Mount Snow Sunday-Friday.  After December 18th, all Hunter 
Mountain season passholders will receive the discounted lift ticket benefits at 
of the *Fan Fare Card* at Mount Snow & Jack 
Frost/Big Boulder as well as the discount perks of the Vertical Value Card at *Attitash*, *Wildcat* & *Crotched Mountains* in New Hampshire!   


To take advantage of these offers, all you need to do is bring your 
2015-16 Hunter Mountain season pass to Guest Services at any of our new Peak 
Resort sister resorts.  

For additional details on this offer and all 
reciprocal Peak Resort perks you are entitled to, please *click here*. 

Cheers,
The Hunter 
Mountain Team


----------



## yeggous (Dec 3, 2015)

So they are punting the reciprocal pass issue until next year. Probably makes sense at this point.

I also noticed that details page was updated to stay that the reciprocal pass holder cards do not come loaded with a free ticket. This is contrary to what I was told at both the Mt Snow and AttiCat booths at the Boston ski expo. I'm going to have to get to the bottom of this.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 3, 2015)

I never ski Hunter anymore, but I think I'll hit it this year to see it one last time before they pump a lot of money into it.  Prolly a Plattelikill / Hunter Saturday/Sunday.


----------



## yeggous (Dec 4, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> I never ski Hunter anymore, but I think I'll hit it this year to see it one last time before they pump a lot of money into it.  Prolly a Plattelikill / Hunter Saturday/Sunday.



Pump in a lot of money? Peak Resorts? LOL


----------



## ss20 (Dec 4, 2015)

yeggous said:


> Pump in a lot of money? Peak Resorts? LOL



Best post in this thread... anyone who thinks Peaks will put money into Hunter is smoking something illicit.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 4, 2015)

yeggous said:


> Pump in a lot of money? Peak Resorts? LOL



Compared to what Hunter has been reinvesting into the mountain the majority of the last few years, yup


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 4, 2015)

My band is playing the lodge on January 30th...  Thinking it may be the last time..
Encouraging EVERYONE to come out and rage..  Show the new owners what the local scene has become and how it should be maintained...


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 4, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Compared to what Hunter has been reinvesting into the mountain the majority of the last few years, yup [/QUOTE
> Having an extra 400k a year pumped into the place should be noticeable!


----------



## 180 (Dec 4, 2015)

Hunter Sold. So much talk over all these years about this and now it’s a reality.I have skied here every weekend for 30 years.I own 2condos and was a volunteer for 16 years.I have 2 lifetime passes so what happens is of great importance, butchange is inevitable.  Some of Hunters allure was the fact that the town has not changed, however, that won't work anymore.  Seeing what Peak has done at other resorts gives me great hope.There is so much that could be done 

$6m EBITA is a lot of money that can be used to fund projects.
Crowds, yes, but it will take a lot of people to make a liftline on the Westside that really impacts my day. 
Terrain expansion, plenty of opportunity to add glades and trails with right people with vision
Snowmaking, they still need to replace hundreds  of fan guns, so I hope they do.
Grooming, can’t be much worse and I think we’ll see some new “mogul” area.  At least we’ll have someone new to complain to.
The Ravine, it was ruined with logging, so hopefully they will turn Dave’s Inferno into a real trail with Snowmaking
The highlands, great potential up there for glades and advanced trails
Water, right now it must be pumped up and overto the Westside.  They have approval tobuild the Westside Pipeline.  It must bebuilt to support snowmaking on the Westside, otherwise we’ll always havelimited possibilities over there. David said it was now too expensive.  We’ll see what Peek thinks.
Why was the hotel not included.  Who owns the hotel? It’s owned by theshareholders or Hunter?
The bathrooms , definitely at the summit
Summit lodge has greatly improved the last few years and a little more investment with decking and windows would make it shine.  Scotties Food is decent too!
Base Lodge – so much criticism, I think the layout is great. The bar, BYOB if you have a problem. It’s the best place Iever hung out to let my kids go while I could have a few.  
Food, never thought it was bad, but I don’t eat there much anymore since I can ski home.
Sushi bar – what other ski area has one, hope it stays.  Nice and private space to hangout.
Copper tree, good value
My stashes, there are plenty of stashes and I hope to show more people how to get to them

my claim to fame below 1994 and 95


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2015)

Ha! My dad had that one piece back then.  Classic


----------



## 180 (Dec 4, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Ha! My dad had that one piece back then.  Classic



I still do. Its my torchlight outfit now.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2015)

Nice.  You should rock it during the BMMC!!


----------



## thetrailboss (Dec 4, 2015)

180 said:


> Hunter Sold. So much talk over all these years about this and now it’s a reality.I have skied here every weekend for 30 years.I own 2condos and was a volunteer for 16 years.I have 2 lifetime passes so what happens is of great importance, butchange is inevitable.  Some of Hunters allure was the fact that the town has not changed, however, that won't work anymore.  Seeing what Peak has done at other resorts gives me great hope.There is so much that could be done
> 
> $6m EBITA is a lot of money that can be used to fund projects.
> Crowds, yes, but it will take a lot of people to make a liftline on the Westside that really impacts my day.
> ...



Nice!


----------



## RichT (Dec 4, 2015)

I agree...........except Scotties food is MUCH better than decent!!


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 4, 2015)

RichT said:


> I agree...........except Scotties food is MUCH better than decent!!



+@ 1/8it good delicious actually for ski snowboarding area and not because they named the place after me lol!!!


----------



## catskillman (Dec 4, 2015)

180 said:


> Hunter Sold. So much talk over all these years about this and now it’s a reality.I have skied here every weekend for 30 years.I own 2condos and was a volunteer for 16 years.I have 2 lifetime passes so what happens is of great importance, butchange is inevitable.  Some of Hunters allure was the fact that the town has not changed, however, that won't work anymore.  Seeing what Peak has done at other resorts gives me great hope.There is so much that could be done
> 
> $6m EBITA is a lot of money that can be used to fund projects.
> Crowds, yes, but it will take a lot of people to make a liftline on the Westside that really impacts my day.
> ...


Windham now has a sushi bar!  The summit lodge is classic.  The old skis and memorabilia is so interesting.  I see all kinds of non skiers in there during the summer fascinated.  Hope the leave RIP at the summit!!!


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 4, 2015)

catskillman said:


> The summit lodge is classic.  The old skis and memorabilia is so interesting.



I love the inside of the summit lodge, I wish they would do something with the bomb shelter look of the exterior. A nice stone facing would wonders. Shit, just give a couple of local masons a free pass to work on it during the summer in their spare time; free pass if they get a certain amount done, else a pro-rated discount.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 4, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> I love the inside of the summit lodge, I wish they would do something with the bomb shelter look of the exterior. A nice stone facing would wonders. Shit, just give a couple of local masons a free pass to work on it during the summer in their spare time; free pass if they get a certain amount done, else a pro-rated discount.



And new bathrooms!


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 4, 2015)

yeggous said:


> *Pump in a lot of money? Peak Resorts? LOL*



A ~66% increase over Hunter's yearly expenditure represents "a lot" of money IMO.



ss20 said:


> *Best post in this thread*... anyone who thinks Peaks will put money into Hunter is smoking something illicit.



More like "most uninformed post" given what's now publicly available info.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 4, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> A ~66% increase over Hunter's yearly expenditure represents "a lot" of money IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> More like "most uninformed post" given what's now publicly available info.




You will not see a new aerial lift for 5+ years.  You will never see a new terrain pod.  Lodges will be "refined" and improved but never will you see "tear it down and build a new one".

You will see more aggressive snowmaking, more ticket deals, better (but not necessarily more" grooming.


----------



## catskills (Dec 4, 2015)

Will the new owner raise the price of a ticket ?  Obvious question


----------



## SKI-3PO (Dec 4, 2015)

Yes.  Obvious answer.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 4, 2015)

Prices have gone up at Wildcat, but are still a great value.  The Granite pass is still the best multi mountain pass deal in New England IMO.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 4, 2015)

where/when do prices go down?


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 5, 2015)

ASC is the only example that comes to mind


----------



## goldsbar (Dec 5, 2015)

180 said:


> Grooming, can’t be much worse and I think we’ll see some new “mogul” area.  At least we’ll have someone new to complain to.



This!  Seems like it would be so easy to fix.  Hunter has horrible grooming (death cookie and dangerous ditches/irregularities galore), but they insist on grooming everything except that tiny Crossover trail.  Leave more trails alone to bump up - or at least parts of the trails - and do a better job on what's left.  Better for everyone.

I see this change in ownership as a potential really positive move.  They were at the forefront of snow making in the 80s, but haven't done much since.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 5, 2015)

goldsbar said:


> This!  Seems like it would be so easy to fix.  Hunter has horrible grooming (death cookie and dangerous ditches/irregularities galore), but they insist on grooming everything except that tiny Crossover trail.  Leave more trails alone to bump up - or at least parts of the trails - and do a better job on what's left.  Better for everyone.
> 
> I see this change in ownership as a potential really positive move.  They were at the forefront of snow making in the 80s, but haven't done much since.



+1 I remember skiing powder snow then from their guns. I thought they just got cheaper about making snow as prices of everything went up.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 5, 2015)

I just wish they'd f'ing open...


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 5, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> I just wish they'd f'ing open...



Me too. I almost thought of driving to Mt Snow tomorrow, but then it passed...


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 5, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> +1 I remember skiing powder snow then from their guns. I thought they just got cheaper about making snow as prices of everything went up.



Who wrote this? What did you do with Scotty?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 5, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Who wrote this? What did you do with Scotty?



Seriously, wth?  There is not a single mistake in that sentence.  It's perfect.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 5, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> Who wrote this? What did you do with Scotty?



The first sentence could use some work..


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 5, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> The first sentence could use some work..



But for Scotty that is an A+


----------



## drjeff (Dec 5, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> Me too. I almost thought of driving to Mt Snow tomorrow, but then it passed...



Smart move, and not just to decrease my liftlines - I somehow managed to make 19 runs today on mainly just Cascade to Canyon or Long John/Deer run/Little John with 3 runs down The Gulch today, mainly to hold off going to the bar to
o soon!! When I got too bored to the point where I crossed my tips and fell on Deer Run, I knew it was time to quit after 19 runs and 27.2k vertical feet and go drink some beer!! :beer:

We NEED cold air and some natural snow ASAP!!!


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 5, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Smart move, and not just to decrease my liftlines - I somehow managed to make 19 runs today on mainly just Cascade to Canyon or Long John/Deer run/Little John with 3 runs down The Gulch today, mainly to hold off going to the bar to
> o soon!! When I got too bored to the point where I crossed my tips and fell on Deer Run, I knew it was time to quit after 19 runs and 27.2k vertical feet and go drink some beer!! :beer:
> 
> Due they plan on making snow on North face soon?
> We NEED cold air and some natural snow ASAP!!![/QUOT


----------



## drjeff (Dec 5, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> drjeff said:
> 
> 
> > Smart move, and not just to decrease my liftlines - I somehow managed to make 19 runs today on mainly just Cascade to Canyon or Long John/Deer run/Little John with 3 runs down The Gulch today, mainly to hold off going to the bar to
> ...


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 8, 2015)

So Hunter made snow last night and the other night! Windham...nothing. Also looks like they started Jimmy Heuga. Maybe this IS a good thing! This is with marginal temps. Maybe tonight will be enough to open up.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 8, 2015)

Going to get my Hunter pass this week and hit Mt. Snow since I can ski there for free.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 8, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Going to get my Hunter pass this week and hit Mt. Snow since I can ski there for free.


Lucky enjoy. If in only I knew Peaks was going to buy Hunter last spring. Oh well I know what my plan is for this spring.


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 8, 2015)

After a little bump after their announcement of the purchase of Hunter Peak stock is heading back down the toilet.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 8, 2015)

this Morning... 12/8


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 8, 2015)

Given the weather we've been having, that's a nice sight to see!  I have LOTS of respect for the snowmaking crews this year.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 8, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Given the weather we've been having, that's a nice sight to see!  I have LOTS of respect for the snowmaking crews this year.



Hunter was one if the original hills to make snowmaking technology better in early days.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 8, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Given the weather we've been having, that's a nice sight to see!  I have LOTS of respect for the snowmaking crews this year.



They do what they can realistically do..


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 8, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> They do what they can realistically do..



Snowcats are out on midstation looking to be pushing the snow out. They would leave it piled up if they were not gonna ski on it.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 8, 2015)

So what's the plan? Last weekend the race teams got out on snow. 

Was that just dryland training?


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 8, 2015)

JimG. said:


> So what's the plan? Last weekend the race teams got out on snow.
> 
> Was that just dryland training?



It was hike to the snow training.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 8, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> After a little bump after their announcement of the purchase of Hunter Peak stock is heading back down the toilet.



Even though I think it's essentially a poor investment, I picked a chunk up near the low on the almost 100% belief that barring a positively catastrophic event, the management team would never cut the dividend during the first year of issue (and that it was a bit overdone).  With about a 10% dividend, plus the nice price appreciation, its' ironically been my 2nd best stock this year.  Dumping it once I hit the LTCG mark though.


----------



## RichT (Dec 9, 2015)

Looks like the new owners first order of business is the shave 100 ft off of our vertical??


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 9, 2015)

RichT said:


> Looks like the new owners first order of business is the shave 100 ft off of our vertical??


Maybe the purchase priced is per vertical foot.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 9, 2015)

http://www.huntermtn.com/winter/snow-report/

Their opening this Friday way to go hunter!


----------



## JimG. (Dec 9, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> It was hike to the snow training.



Totally sarcastic here but does that mean they practiced hiking to the edge of the snow or that they hiked up and skied?

Glad they are opening on Friday.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 9, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Totally sarcastic here but does that mean they practiced hiking to the edge of the snow or that they hiked up and skied?
> 
> Glad they are opening on Friday.



Hiked up and skied....


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 9, 2015)

Well done on opening this Friday.  Given the weather we've been having, this is very impressive.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 9, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> Hiked up and skied....



Cool.

I asked because there was grapevine chatter that a lift was opened.


----------



## RichT (Dec 9, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Cool.
> 
> I asked because there was grapevine chatter that a lift was opened.



I saw them on the midstation cam..........that's a lot of "hiking" but I did try and see if the triple was moving and it wasn't. I'm thinking they got a "ride" up and then were hiking.

Hey good for them! The team needs to train!


----------



## JimG. (Dec 9, 2015)

RichT said:


> I saw them on the midstation cam..........that's a lot of "hiking" but I did try and see if the triple was moving and it wasn't. I'm thinking they got a "ride" up and then were hiking.
> 
> Hey good for them! The team needs to train!



Yes the team needs to train. Cat rides and hiking not a problem for me. 

But clearly there was plenty of snow to ski on. Belleayre was open and they had plenty of snow albeit not great quality due to temps. I spent 2 days there.

Hunter could have opened last weekend. Easily.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 10, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Hunter could have opened last weekend. Easily.



No motivation for them to open now. Like filling up the tank of a car you're selling tomorrow.


----------



## EPB (Dec 10, 2015)

+1


----------



## JimG. (Dec 10, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> No motivation for them to open now. Like filling up the tank of a car you're selling tomorrow.



I can always count on you Captain Obvious.

I didn't want to say it outright and your analogy is priceless.

Not what the average season pass holder wants to see. You learn a lot about folks when they're heading out the door.

Nice!


----------



## yeggous (Dec 10, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I can always count on you Captain Obvious.
> 
> I didn't want to say it outright and your analogy is priceless.
> 
> ...



I hope you don't expect it to get any better under new management. SKIS is not opening Attitash this weekend either. It has to make you wonder who is making the call to shutter Hunter at the moment.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 10, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Not what the average season pass holder wants to see. *You learn a lot about folks when they're heading out the door.*
> 
> Nice!



In most instances I'd disagree with you and suggest this is just a rational financial decision.  But with it being one family's supposed pride & joy, with 50 years of skier patronage from long-term customers, not to mention what it means to the community?   Yeah, it's kindof crappy.



yeggous said:


> I hope you don't expect it to get any better under  new management. SKIS is not opening Attitash this weekend either.* It  has to make you wonder who is making the call to shutter Hunter at the  moment.*



  This is on current Hunter ownership, not SKIS.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 10, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I hope you don't expect it to get any better under new management. SKIS is not opening Attitash this weekend either.


Except that they have been aggressive with their snowmaking at Wildcat.  And they have demonstrated a commitment to improving snowmaking at Wildcat.  I think that the Attitash situation has a lot more to do with Wildcat being just up the road rather than a lack of a company-wide commitment to snowmaking.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 10, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I hope you don't expect it to get any better under new management. SKIS is not opening Attitash this weekend either. It has to make you wonder who is making the call to shutter Hunter at the moment.



I have learned to expect the worst and work from there. There are many choices available.

Hunter will be open tomorrow and through the weekend; perhaps Attitash isn't opening because they felt pressure to open Hunter?


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2015)

yeggous said:


> I hope you don't expect it to get any better under new management. SKIS is not opening Attitash this weekend either. It has to make you wonder who is making the call to shutter Hunter at the moment.



Sure would be nice if they opened Attitash this weekend.  Looks like more games of dodging race teams.

I'm not a fan of Attitash's philosophy of waiting until they can open both peaks.  If you have to start with just one route off flying Yankee, do it.  The available terrain at Wildcat isn't enough to handle the additional crowds this late in December.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 10, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> In most instances I'd disagree with you and suggest this is just a rational financial decision.  But with it being one family's supposed pride & joy, with 50 years of skier patronage from long-term customers, not to mention what it means to the community?   Yeah, it's kindof crappy.
> 
> 
> 
> This is on current Hunter ownership, not SKIS.



So glad I was their on and after closing day last year what a great group of t friends and family at the hill.


----------



## EPB (Dec 10, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> Sure would be nice if they opened Attitash this weekend.  Looks like more games of dodging race teams.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Attitash's philosophy of waiting until they can open both peaks.  If you have to start with just one route off flying Yankee, do it.  The available terrain at Wildcat isn't enough to handle the additional crowds this late in December.



I'm surprised that they never open the season with ~30% of the chairs parked in the terminal at the bottom of the quad to address that.


----------



## 180 (Dec 10, 2015)

okay, my $02.  Hunter, did not have enough snow to ski to the base safely until these week. Remember that the base elevation of the Overlook Lodge at Belleayre is the same as the bottom of F Lift. Clearly with foresight Hunter could have blown to the base of f lift and opened, but they chose not to. THe inversions this week were tremendous. 50 at the top and 20 at the base.  Financial decision, F lift not ready to run?  Who knows, but seasonal programs did not get started and I am sure that costs them not saves. Windham is not opening and Belleayre has no more terrain this week either. 

Did anyone read the letter pasted by Attitash's GM?  Did not sound like it came from above.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 10, 2015)

Exactly who owns Hunter for the 2015-16 season? Who is making the management decisions? Who profits/loses?

I've been trying to figure that out since the sale occurred.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 10, 2015)

JimG. said:


> *Exactly who owns Hunter for the 2015-16 season?*



Hunter now, SKIS in a few weeks from now.  Close is expected "by" Christmas.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 10, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Hunter now, SKIS in a few weeks from now.  Close is expected "by" Christmas.



Well that explains a lot. There was no hope they would open last weekend. 

That seems like a weird time to close a deal for a ski area.

It will be interesting to ski there tomorrow. I wonder who lit the fire to open?


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 10, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Well that explains a lot. There was no hope they would open last weekend.
> 
> That seems like a weird time to close a deal for a ski area.
> 
> It will be interesting to ski there tomorrow. I wonder who lit the fire to open?



Hard to say, but I would not be surprised if it was SKIS.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 10, 2015)

JimG. said:


> *That seems like a weird time to close a deal for a ski area.*



Not when the acquirer is a publicly traded company and Christmas is one of the bigger revenue opportunities of the year.  

By closing ahead of that week, SKIS' consolidated financial results will be able to incorporate Hunter's Christmas week sales.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 10, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> Hard to say, but I would not be surprised if it was SKIS.



Per a pic a good friend of mine who is one of the main marketing guys for Peak Resorts put up on his Instagram page this evening, some Peak admins are in Hunter tonight (and wings and beers with the Hunter folks were being consumed!)


----------



## mriceyman (Dec 10, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Per a pic a good friend of mine who is one of the main marketing guys for Peak Resorts put up on his Instagram page this evening, some Peak admins are in Hunter tonight (and wings and beers with the Hunter folks were being consumed!)



Ig ID?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## JimG. (Dec 11, 2015)

andrec10 said:


> Hard to say, but I would not be surprised if it was SKIS.



Let's hope, that would be a good sign.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 11, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Not when the acquirer is a publicly traded company and Christmas is one of the bigger revenue opportunities of the year.
> 
> By closing ahead of that week, SKIS' consolidated financial results will be able to incorporate Hunter's Christmas week sales.



Stupid me.

I keep forgetting that the soul of the sport, the enjoyment of the outdoors, the whoosh of the wind as we slide has nothing at all to do with this.

The balance sheet rules all. I wonder if anyone at PEAK thought about the potential of the biggest El Nino on record.

I don't really mean this but sometimes it is enjoyable to watch Mother Nature piss on the best laid plans.


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 12, 2015)

I've been out of the loop for a bit, but to be honest I'm fairly optimistic about this news. The last few years have seemed fairly stagnant and like whoever was in charge didn't really have their heart in it. 

I think there's plenty that a new owner can improve, and at the same time arguably not much they could really screw up that badly.

My experiences at Mt Snow alleviate most of my concerns. Peaks knows how to make snow and they're not overzealous about closing trails. Not a whole lot else to mess up.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 13, 2015)

This weather is making me grumpy. Had a good day at Hunter today my best overall day yet this year. 

Late morning it cleared up and the mainline was nice little bumps everywhere. I especially appreciated the sustained vertical that had been lacking.

Hard to get negative about a day like that.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 15, 2015)

http://ir.peakresorts.com/File/Index?KeyFile=32243302

I not a stock person person so I don't what this means.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 15, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> *I not a stock person person so I don't what this means.*



The ski industry is a bit odd in that nobody really cares about your non in-season results, so that entire article is basically a bunch of wonky "meh" and the only people who will read it are equity analysts tweaking their financial models.  The reason the stock has been hammered the last week or so is because of the weather.  Management really tried to downplay that today saying (paraphrasing) _"November to Christmas is always a weak time of year anyway, so while it's not optimal, it's not a big deal"_.  

 The only other interesting aspects I took from the call was that season pass sales volume is flat, but up in $$ on price increase (midwest weak, Mount Snow strong), and that even though they just bought Hunter, they're still looking to M&A in that "day-tripper" market.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 16, 2015)

http://www.peakresorts.com/news-updates/page-449/
PASS UPGRADES AVAILABLE STARTING AT $299

Peak Resorts Announces Nor’Easter Season Passes Now Valid at Hunter Mountain, Pass Upgrades Available Starting at $299

Wildwood, MO (Dec. 14, 2015) – As a continuing effort to add value to its season passholders, Peak Resorts announced that all Nor’easter Season Passes will be welcomed at its newest acquisition Hunter Mountain, for the 2015/2016 winter season. 

In addition, Hunter Mountain Gold Season Passholders will be able to upgrade their pass to the unlimited Peak Resorts Nor’easter Season Pass starting at $299.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 16, 2015)

ScottySkis said:


> http://www.peakresorts.com/news-updates/page-449/
> PASS UPGRADES AVAILABLE STARTING AT $299
> 
> Peak Resorts Announces Nor’Easter Season Passes Now Valid at Hunter Mountain, Pass Upgrades Available Starting at $299
> ...



Yup,  and as of today, I can now say a phrase that I never thought I'd say (purely for geographic proximity reasons), "I have a season pass to Hunter!"


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 16, 2015)

drjeff said:


> Yup,  and as I today, I can now say a phrase that I never thought I'd say (purely for geographic proximity reasons), "I have a season pass to Hunter!"



On the bright side, if you do go to Hunter you might get the opportunity to ski Plattekill.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 17, 2015)

So I see windham rented extra compressors to take advantage of this weekends cold stretch. Wonder if Hunter will, or even needs to with the new compressor.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Dec 17, 2015)

They are going to need a lot of help.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 17, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> On the bright side, if you do go to Hunter you might get the opportunity to ski Plattekill.



Why would anyone want to go these 2 horrible hills.:grin:

On above pictures of Hunter give them a fee nights of freezing temperatures and they can get like25%/of terrain snow covered and open but up the management I think X mas week coming up yiu see them blasting away from tonight full force through the weekend.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 17, 2015)

SIKSKIER said:


> They are going to need a lot of help.




What I'm really worried about is that come December 26th, that there will be more ski areas that look something like this than with at least a contiguous white ribbon of death!!


----------



## goldsbar (Dec 18, 2015)

Wow, not opening again until the 26th.  Not for lack of trying.  Tough year to make an acquisition!


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 18, 2015)

guns are on up top


----------



## Creakyknees (Dec 19, 2015)

*Photo?*

Funky,

Could you post a photo of Hunters snowmaking from today. You know the typical photo from the area around Bear Creek.
I'm having Hunter withdrawarls.
Thanks


----------



## catskills (Dec 21, 2015)

Good news Hunter WEB cams looking like Winter this morning 4 days before Christmas.  
Bad news is Hunter may not be able to make snow again until after Christmas with rain in the forecast this week.  

This is not good for the all the businesses in the Catskills that rely on cold and snow like hotels, restaurants, folks that plow snow and many more.  It is going to be tough to pay the heating bills for many people here.  If you can try to make it up and spend some dollars in the Catskills.   El-nino is hurting the Catskills economy big time.  Not good.


----------



## RichT (Dec 21, 2015)

We're heading up no matter what!!


----------



## RichT (Dec 21, 2015)

Windham and Bellaye are open and Hunter is not!! So here it starts, big corporations only looking after profits!


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 21, 2015)

RichT said:


> Windham and Bellaye are open and Hunter is not!! So here it starts, big corporations only looking after profits!



I think its actually making sure they are open Xmas week. Between the @ain and the blow torch, if you leave the snow piled up and undisturbed, it lasts much longer. They will just push it out Friday night and we ski on Saturday...I can't say that Windham will look too good after the weather the next few days. And as you well know, I AM THE FIRST ONE TO COMPLAIN!


----------



## drjeff (Dec 21, 2015)

RichT said:


> Windham and Bellaye are open and Hunter is not!! So here it starts, big corporations only looking after profits!



Or just trying to save as much of the snow surface from any added traffic the next few days as the blowtorch arrives


----------



## yeggous (Dec 21, 2015)

Get used to it? Welcome to the Peak Resorts regime.

They aren't afraid to spend money, but only when they see the return on investment. I'll credit them for being professional businessmen. Rest assured that all eyes are on Christmas week. They will do whatever they can to secure the revenue from that week. Mt Snow is open to help maintain Nor'Easter pass sales, and the shear volume there mean they're making money. Elsewhere both Crotched and Attitash remain closed to preserve snowpack for this weekend.


----------



## Quietman (Dec 21, 2015)

Wildcat has also been open top to bottom longer than Killington, and they have no resort base(food and lodging) to support them, except for the resources at Attitash.  

I'm still concerned that Crotched may not open this weekend.  They blew for 2 days, but the wet bulb numbers were very marginal and the whales don't appear to be very large.  They did their best, I'm hoping they got enough down.


----------



## catskillman (Dec 21, 2015)

RichT said:


> Windham and Bellaye are open and Hunter is not!! So here it starts, big corporations only looking after profits!


  Totally incorrect!!  The deal has not closed yet!!  The Slutzky's take whatever $ is in the bank on the day of the closing.  When they were open a couple of weeks ago they sold hardly any tickets.  Why would anyone open when your expenses would exceed income???  Calm down.  Let's wait to see what happens when the Big Corp actually owns the place...........


----------



## yeggous (Dec 21, 2015)

Quietman said:


> Wildcat has also been open top to bottom longer than Killington, and they have no resort base(food and lodging) to support them, except for the resources at Attitash.
> 
> I'm still concerned that Crotched may not open this weekend.  They blew for 2 days, but the wet bulb numbers were very marginal and the whales don't appear to be very large.  They did their best, I'm hoping they got enough down.



Yes, the early and late season at Wildcat is part of the larger strategy. It seems as an incentive for the hardcore skier market to drive their core pass sales. Plus it allows them to focus both Attitash and Wildcat skiers at one mountain during the shoulder seasons. By closing Attitash during marginal weeks, they only need to run one lift and base lodge thus eliminating the expenses from two-base area at Attitash.


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 21, 2015)

RichT said:


> Windham and Bellaye are open and Hunter is not!! So here it starts, big corporations only looking after profits!



 Belleayre is closed. Reopening the 25th. Windham is open.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 21, 2015)

RichT said:


> Windham and Bellaye are open and Hunter is not!! So *here it starts, big corporations only looking after profits!*





yeggous said:


> *Welcome to the Peak Resorts regime.*



Both of you are wrong for two reasons, a practical reason, and a financial reason.

Practical -  What's best for the little snow they do have right now IS to be closed.

Financial -  Deal hasn't closed


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 22, 2015)

http://ir.peakresorts.com/File/Index?KeyFile=32327909

Hopefully this is a good thing?


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 22, 2015)

Someone the other day figured out the weather. Orville and Izzy are pissed their beloved Hunter Mtn was sold. SO the weather is punishment...


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 22, 2015)

Pretty pathetic...  We are all kind of amazed at this weather..
People that work at the mountain are leaving town to visit with relatives they've never visited before because of having to work..

It's too damn warm out..


----------



## JimG. (Dec 22, 2015)

So I took a swing and bought the 6 day pass. Didn't want to completely bag out on Hunter skiing. Got a day in 2 weeks ago. 

They're opening on 12/26 but I'm blacked out for the holidays 12/25-12/31. 

That's OK other places to go with equally limited terrain, but by the time I get to ski Hunter again I will be lucky to get in 10 days at Hunter this season. I was expecting more like 16-18. 

Swing and a miss! Maybe save some $$ next season.


----------



## Funky_Catskills (Dec 22, 2015)

Going to supplement my blackout days with day passes from employee friends..


----------



## JimG. (Dec 22, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Going to supplement my blackout days with day passes from employee friends..



Scored a free ticket from a gold pass holder for Sat.


----------



## goldsbar (Dec 22, 2015)

That picture is not bad all things considered!  Unfortunately, several days of warmth to come.  I'm surprised they spread out the snow on the trails.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 22, 2015)

goldsbar said:


> That picture is not bad all things considered!  Unfortunately, several days of warmth to come.  I'm surprised they spread out the snow on the trails.



Thats not spread out! They blew it and left it and will farm it out Friday night for Saturday.


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 23, 2015)

SKIS hit a 52 week low today ($5.15) closed at ($5.27).


----------



## JimG. (Dec 24, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> SKIS hit a 52 week low today ($5.15) closed at ($5.27).



How does that compare with other ski area operators listed publicly?


----------



## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Dec 24, 2015)

JimG. said:


> How does that compare with other ski area operators listed publicly?



Comparing share prices of different companies is completely meaningless as every company has a different number of shares, not to mention different earnings, assets, and liabilities.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 24, 2015)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Comparing share prices of different companies is completely meaningless as every company has a different number of shares, not to mention different earnings, assets, and liabilities.



I was asking more for a general financial condition, not a complete financial breakdown. An opinion.

I'll guess that most resort operators heavily invested in the east are hurting in the short term because of the crappy winter so far. Making an resort purchase right now can only make that worse. Their business model must include a contingency for this inevitability anyway, but talk about the worst winter to make such a deal.

I can remember other winters in the past 15 years or so that have started almost as poorly but this winter takes the cake for worst start ever.


----------



## cdskier (Dec 24, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I was asking more for a general financial condition, not a complete financial breakdown. An opinion.



Intrawest is near their 52 week low as well. Looking at a 1 year stock window shows both Intrawest and Peak down about 30% from a year ago. Not sure who else there even is publicly traded to compare with that has some eastern resorts in their portfolio.


----------



## 180 (Dec 24, 2015)

sweet dividend


----------



## steamboat1 (Dec 24, 2015)

180 said:


> sweet dividend



Tell that to the people who own it at $9.


----------



## RichT (Dec 24, 2015)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Pretty pathetic...  We are all kind of amazed at this weather..
> People that work at the mountain are leaving town to visit with relatives they've never visited before because of having to work..
> 
> It's too damn warm out..




And today!! Doesn't look good for Saturday... bummer Bright side high 33 degrees Monday! For people who don't know Hunter very well this picture would be 2/3 way down in the top picture,


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 24, 2015)

RichT said:


> And today!! Doesn't look good for Saturday... bummer Bright side high 33 degrees Monday! For people who don't know Hunter very well this picture would be 2/3 way down in the top picture,



Saturday is looking sketchy. But if they open, I am there with my rock skis on!


----------



## doublediamond (Dec 24, 2015)

Vail is about 40% up YOY.


----------



## catskillman (Dec 24, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I was asking more for a general financial condition, not a complete financial breakdown. An opinion.
> 
> I'll guess that most resort operators heavily invested in the east are hurting in the short term because of the crappy winter so far. Making an resort purchase right now can only make that worse. Their business model must include a contingency for this inevitability anyway, but talk about the worst winter to make such a deal.
> 
> I can remember other winters in the past 15 years or so that have started almost as poorly but this winter takes the cake for worst start ever.


may I remind you that the deal has not closed yet ---  hasen't cost them a nickle, and unless there is a clause in the contract regarding the day it has to close by, it would be in their best interest to drag this on......


----------



## JimG. (Dec 24, 2015)

catskillman said:


> may I remind you that the deal has not closed yet ---  hasen't cost them a nickle, and unless there is a clause in the contract regarding the day it has to close by, it would be in their best interest to drag this on......



Really? Whose best interests? 

Certainly not their pass holders whose opinions I would assume Peaks might have an interest in. The weather is not their fault but how they react and cater to pass holders who are already disenchanted might say a lot about next season.

Unless they are ready to bag the whole deal in which case I would assume that would not suit the Slutsky's best interests. 

So who gains by dragging this on?


----------



## JimG. (Dec 24, 2015)

cdskier said:


> Intrawest is near their 52 week low as well. Looking at a 1 year stock window shows both Intrawest and Peak down about 30% from a year ago. Not sure who else there even is publicly traded to compare with that has some eastern resorts in their portfolio.



Shows you what a gamble every year is with a weather dependent business. I guess that will get worse as time passes.


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 24, 2015)

catskillman said:


> unless there is a clause in the contract regarding the day it has to close by, it would be in their best interest to drag this on......


You mean like 99% of these types of contracts have?



.


----------



## drjeff (Dec 24, 2015)

I'm guessing that Peak didn't decide to spend over 30 million dollars with the notion that they'd make all 30+ million back between the late December closing date and the start of 2016!! They're in this for the long haul! After all, how many resorts has Peak bought in the last 10 or so years vs. how many they've sold??


----------



## catskillman (Dec 26, 2015)

JimG. said:


> Really? Whose best interests?
> 
> Certainly not their pass holders whose opinions I would assume Peaks might have an interest in. The weather is not their fault but how they react and cater to pass holders who are already disenchanted might say a lot about next season.
> 
> ...


The weather has made snowmaking almost impossible, no matter who owns/owned the mtn..  At this point it does not matter to passholders who owns the place.  The deal was not meant to close yet anyway.  I am a passholder and have been forever, and it makes no differance to me.  The pass is cheap and I more than get my $ worth.  I totally expect them to raise the cost next year...  This mtn has been for sale for ever, for the right price.  I heard a speach by Orville about 15 years ago, and he said that.  He also said it had to be cash, as he did not want stock at his age....  If you were buying a marina and the lake was frozen in July would you delay the purchase if you could???  Of course, why would you want to own the place now if there wasen't an income opportunity, you were only going to have to pay out cash.  Why would the boaters be disenchanted with anyone.  Can't unfreeze a lake...........


----------



## VTKilarney (Dec 26, 2015)

Everyone stop.  Contracts such as this always have a closing date.  While delays happen, you can't just delay a closing because you feel like it.


----------



## RichT (Dec 26, 2015)

I talked to David today..........deals done, new owners by the first.


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 26, 2015)

I was there today. Not too bad at all for a WROD. Not that many people out and those that were there, were good skiers mostly, so it was a white ribbon, but not of death. Snow and cold coming next week, let's hope for a long cold spell and a shifted season. Maybe the new owners will extend the closing date.


----------



## goldsbar (Dec 27, 2015)

Let's hope this is the worst image we see until late April.  At least it's still a base they can start to repair tonight.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 27, 2015)

I took 2 runs the morning and called it. This section is as bad as it looks. Been skiing at Huntah since 1972 and have never seen anything like it. I swear its Izzy and Orville who are pissed off that they sold.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 27, 2015)

I skied there today.

Top to 5 fingers is still really good but past mid is pretty much gone. You can pick your way down but it needs plenty of snowmaking. 

Never seen a terrible start like this season. Was at Belleayre on Sat and it was not much different.


----------



## catskillman (Dec 29, 2015)

JimG. said:


> I skied there today.
> 
> Top to 5 fingers is still really good but past mid is pretty much gone. You can pick your way down but it needs plenty of snowmaking.
> 
> Never seen a terrible start like this season. Was at Belleayre on Sat and it was not much different.


Why are they not blowing on the parkway???  This is a total switch from the last 25 seasons.  The first 2 trails are always the parkway and hellgate.  Is something amiss with the new pipeline and equipment?


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 29, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Why are they not blowing on the parkway???  This is a total switch from the last 25 seasons.  The first 2 trails are always the parkway and hellgate.  Is something amiss with the new pipeline and equipment?



Its called window of opportunity! Much easier to make Huega first. I would say Belt is next up starting Thursday night.


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 29, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Why are they not blowing on the parkway???  This is a total switch from the last 25 seasons.  The first 2 trails are always the parkway and hellgate.  Is something amiss with the new pipeline and equipment?



This weather has been the worst in about 25 seasons too, and this week's weather isn't great either.

I think they've chosen to try to open up terrain up high where it's less likely to melt out. Heuga's got a lot of shade too, so I'm sure that helped further.


----------



## RichT (Dec 29, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Why are they not blowing on the parkway???  This is a total switch from the last 25 seasons.  The first 2 trails are always the parkway and hellgate.  Is something amiss with the new pipeline and equipment?



   I heard that a pipe broke, so they hit up Jimmy ..........it's fixed now.


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 29, 2015)

Who cares about the Belt?


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 29, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> Who cares about the Belt?


----------



## catskillman (Dec 29, 2015)

RichT said:


> I hear  d that a pipe broke, so they hit up Jimmy ..........it's fixed now.


I knew somethng was off..... also - they need the belt to open wayout and say they have skiing on all three mountains......and the only reason I care about the belt is it takes away the traffic and the iffy folks and makes everyone's day better...........

We'll see if they blow snow there tomorrow.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 29, 2015)

catskillman said:


> I knew somethng was off..... also - they need the belt to open wayout and say they have skiing on all three mountains......and the only reason I care about the belt is it takes away the traffic and the iffy folks and makes everyone's day better...........
> 
> We'll see if they blow snow there tomorrow.



Looks like snowmaking restarts Thursday afternoon/nite.


----------



## ScottySkis (Dec 30, 2015)

http://ir.peakresorts.com/File/Index?KeyFile=32381512


----------



## 180 (Dec 30, 2015)

stock is almost a dollar from the lows, should have bought some


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 30, 2015)

180 said:


> stock is almost a dollar from the lows, should have bought some



Unfortunately I missed the all-time low on capitulation day as I was traveling for the holiday, but I did manage to add to my position the next day.  It's all about dividend coverage now.  As long as they don't cut the dividend, the stock price is fine.  Without the dividend, SKIS plummets to $2.50 - $3.50.    The exec team clearly knows this, and I'm banking that that doesn't happen unless the sky is truly falling, but this isn't a low-risk investment.


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 30, 2015)

catskillman said:


> I knew somethng was off..... also - *they need the belt to open wayout *and say they have skiing on all three mountains......and the only reason I care about the belt is it takes away the traffic and the iffy folks and makes everyone's day better...........
> 
> We'll see if they blow snow there tomorrow.



White Cloud is your friend.


----------



## catskillman (Dec 30, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> White Cloud is your friend.




sorry - I do not comprehend...


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 30, 2015)

catskillman said:


> sorry - I do not comprehend...



To get to Wayout; skip the belt and take White Cloud. You'll need to cross the belt so they would need to shovel a path a ski width wide over the belt.


----------



## moresnow (Dec 31, 2015)

Scruffy said:


> To get to Wayout; skip the belt and take White Cloud. You'll need to cross the belt so they would need to shovel a path a ski width wide over the belt.



With the way they fence off the end of White Cloud, don't you have to cut uphill pretty hard on Belt to make it to Wayout?


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 31, 2015)

moresnow said:


> With the way they fence off the end of White Cloud, don't you have to cut uphill pretty hard on Belt to make it to Wayout?



Its not a big deal! Crossing the belt is the bigger deal, but once you are thru the fence, you are fine.


----------



## Scruffy (Dec 31, 2015)

moresnow said:


> With the way they fence off the end of White Cloud, don't you have to cut uphill pretty hard on Belt to make it to Wayout?



Keep your speed up on WC and cut left hard *before* the fence, and you're golden.


----------



## andrec10 (Dec 31, 2015)

Guns are on on Cliff and Minya. No guns on at Windham. Impressive considering borderline temps. Not sure if the guns are on the belt.


----------



## JimG. (Jan 1, 2016)

moresnow said:


> With the way they fence off the end of White Cloud, don't you have to cut uphill pretty hard on Belt to make it to Wayout?



Will show you next time at Hunter. Interested in skiing tomorrow?


----------



## moresnow (Jan 1, 2016)

JimG. said:


> Will show you next time at Hunter. Interested in skiing tomorrow?



A Saturday at Hunter? 

Maybe mid week next week. It'll give them a few days to cover some more trails. I'll text you.


----------



## JimG. (Jan 1, 2016)

moresnow said:


> A Saturday at Hunter?
> 
> Maybe mid week next week. It'll give them a few days to cover some more trails. I'll text you.



There are no crowds at Hunter. 

But midweek next week works for me too. Let me know.


----------



## keyser soze (Jan 1, 2016)

I;m thinking 2 more days of snowmaking and Sunday should be good.
Sundays are usually less crowded than Saturdays also, no?


----------



## JimG. (Jan 1, 2016)

keyser soze said:


> I;m thinking 2 more days of snowmaking and Sunday should be good.
> Sundays are usually less crowded than Saturdays also, no?



Especially at the end of a holiday week.


----------



## 180 (Jan 1, 2016)

blowing east side, minya, cliff, mainline, ike, hunter one


----------



## RichT (Jan 1, 2016)

180 said:


> blowing east side, minya, cliff, mainline, ike, hunter one


Gun Hill Too!


----------



## andrec10 (Jan 1, 2016)

Belt too...


----------



## moresnow (Jan 1, 2016)

Winter is finally here!

Mostly...


----------



## keyser soze (Jan 2, 2016)

Anyone there today please give a report.  I'll probably go up tomorrow if all is well.
Also do  use my older skis so I don't damage my newer ones?


----------



## RichT (Jan 2, 2016)

keyser soze said:


> Anyone there today please give a report.  I'll probably go up tomorrow if all is well.
> Also do  use my older skis so I don't damage my newer ones?



I was there today, they made ATON of snow!! 6pack, triple, F and B all running. new trails were Cliff, Minya, and Eastside. Snow was good but got moguled up pretty fast. They're making snow on Belt, upper K, lower crossover! It will only get better than this!


----------



## keyser soze (Jan 2, 2016)

RichT said:


> I was there today, they made ATON of snow!! 6pack, triple, F and B all running. new trails were Cliff, Minya, and Eastside. Snow was good but got moguled up pretty fast. They're making snow on Belt, upper K, lower crossover! It will only get better than this!



Great, thanks for the heads up.  I will be heading up there tomorrow if anyone is going to be around, PM me if you want t meet up for some turns.


----------



## 180 (Jan 2, 2016)

I would say full capacity, also making snow on Milky, Lower Brad, all of Hunter 1, tubing park, Belt and Ike.  Great skiing today on all open terrain. Mossy and Huega is still Jerry of the Day!


----------



## andrec10 (Jan 2, 2016)

180 said:


> I would say full capacity, also making snow on Milky, Lower Brad, all of Hunter 1, tubing park, Belt and Ike.  Great skiing today on all open terrain. Mossy and Huega is still Jerry of the Day!



And the Jerry's were out in FULL FORCE today!


----------



## 180 (Jan 2, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> And the Jerry's were out in FULL FORCE today!



I have so many videos and pictures, don't know which to post


----------



## JimG. (Jan 2, 2016)

Glad the deal is closed.

Nice to see the new owners mean business. Today was great. Snowmaking was full speed ahead. Skied until 4.

Looking forward to next Tues-Wed.


----------



## mriceyman (Jan 2, 2016)

180 said:


> I have so many videos and pictures, don't know which to post



Im sure we can start a thread for the year


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## 180 (Jan 2, 2016)

Deal closes this week.  All kinks have been worked out.


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## catskillman (Jan 3, 2016)

JimG. said:


> Glad the deal is closed.
> 
> Nice to see the new owners mean business. Today was great. Snowmaking was full speed ahead. Skied until 4.
> 
> Looking forward to next Tues-Wed.



The mountain sale is NOT closed.  Possibly next week.  Straight from the horse's mouth.!!!


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## JimG. (Jan 3, 2016)

catskillman said:


> The mountain sale is NOT closed.  Possibly next week.  Straight from the horse's mouth.!!!



Driving up and seeing the mountain lit up with snowmaking closed the deal for me; thank you all for additional details.


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## keyser soze (Jan 3, 2016)

Just got back.  Started at ~ 8:40 and got 20 runs in before calling it a day ~ 1:15.  I was going to go in for lunch after 15 runs, but I didn't think I'd be able to come back out if I sat down and ate so I passed up lunch until after.  I was throwing my hips on the last couple of runs because my legs were like jelly.  The mountain was in pretty good shape considering what I'd heard about conditions before the last few days.  Not a bad first time out.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 3, 2016)

I plan to be up there tomorrow for some runs.  Figure Ill ski 1/2 a day.  Hopefully they have been able to fully take advantage of the cold spell.


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

Now it's official!

The deal has closed

http://ir.peakresorts.com/file/Index?KeyFile=32469073


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## RichT (Jan 7, 2016)

The new *interest-only *mortgage is for a 20-year term at an interest rate of 8%, subject to an annual rate adjustment. Interest only loan??? How does that work? After 20 years of paying interest you still owe the loan amount??


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## yeggous (Jan 7, 2016)

RichT said:


> The new *interest-only *mortgage is for a 20-year term at an interest rate of 8%, subject to an annual rate adjustment. Interest only loan??? How does that work? After 20 years of paying interest you still owe the loan amount??



Yes that is how it works. The only property that they own with halfway decent financing is Wildcat.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app


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## VTKilarney (Jan 7, 2016)

RichT said:


> The new *interest-only *mortgage is for a 20-year term at an interest rate of 8%, subject to an annual rate adjustment. Interest only loan??? How does that work? After 20 years of paying interest you still owe the loan amount??



Talk about kicking the can down the road.


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## drjeff (Jan 7, 2016)

yeggous said:


> Yes that is how it works. The only property that they own with halfway decent financing is Wildcat.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Then again for what they bought Wildcat for, they were probably able to pay the majority of the loan off with the revenues generated from french fry sales on a typical Wednesday in early December


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## RichT (Jan 7, 2016)

8%!! i wanted to buy stock, so i could say I'm an owner. Hell I think I'll buy one share (still an owner at $6) and buy beer with the rest.:beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## andrec10 (Jan 7, 2016)

On another note, the new Wayout is awesome!


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 8, 2016)

I wish I could loan people money at 8% interest.


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## marcski (Jan 8, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> I wish I could loan people money at 8% interest.


Plenty of people out there would take you up on that.


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## Rowsdower (Jan 8, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> I wish I could loan people money at 8% interest.



Know anybody that wants to go to college?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Jan 8, 2016)

Interest only mortgage effectively equals renting the place from your lender, but you have to pay property taxes too, right?


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## VTKilarney (Jan 8, 2016)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Interest only mortgage effectively equals renting the place from your lender, but you have to pay property taxes too, right?



That's not a bad way to think of it. But you are correct. The bank does not pay any of the costs associated with the property,  the risk with this type of loan is that Peaks won't have access to capital when the loan comes due.  


.


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## goldsbar (Jan 10, 2016)

Kudos to the old management team for the widening of Wayout.  I'm a big fan of narrow trails (actually think they should narrow Westway, but anyway...), but not if they're groomers with lots of people on them.  Much easier now to get a good run in.  The blue square rating is questionable compared to their other terrain.  The trail feels a bit steeper than the Hellgate mainline run and I know how the wind can scour that side of the mountain.

As for the interest only loan, almost all corporate debt is interest only or a "bullet."  Mortgage debt just happens to be secured by the property versus a traditional corporate bond that's secured by nothing.  Corporations aren't trying to pay off their debt so they have a retirement nest egg.  It's all about using a "reasonable" (YMMV) amount of leverage to juice the return on equity.


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## JimG. (Jan 10, 2016)

goldsbar said:


> Kudos to the old management team for the widening of Wayout.



All they did was eliminate the double fall line on the second pitch after the cutoff from Belt. The trail is no wider than before. 

The real issue, the run out to the lift at the junction with Clairs, has not been addressed at all. Intermediates will take one run over there and after having to walk up to the lift they will never go back.


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## keyser soze (Jan 10, 2016)

That's a good thing.  West is a good place to miss the lines when it's crowded


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## moresnow (Jan 10, 2016)

JimG. said:


> All they did was eliminate the double fall line on the second pitch after the cutoff from Belt. The trail is no wider than before.
> 
> The real issue, the run out to the lift at the junction with Clairs, has not been addressed at all. Intermediates will take one run over there and after having to walk up to the lift they will never go back.





keyser soze said:


> That's a good thing.  West is a good place to miss the lines when it's crowded



Sounds good to me.


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## goldsbar (Jan 10, 2016)

JimG. said:


> All they did was eliminate the double fall line on the second pitch after the cutoff from Belt. The trail is no wider than before.
> 
> The real issue, the run out to the lift at the junction with Clairs, has not been addressed at all. Intermediates will take one run over there and after having to walk up to the lift they will never go back.



Oh well, so much for my memory!  It felt wider at the top and part of the middle.  Maybe because it wasn't so crowded and the snow was really nice.

My 10 y/o is light so doesn't have much momentum and he doesn't like to go above a certain speed.  He wound up having to walk a bit both times we did the run.  Actually, you have to walk/skate a bit off the lift at the top as well with the terrain they had open on Saturday.  No big deal, but most casual skiers are truly casual.


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## JimG. (Jan 10, 2016)

goldsbar said:


> Oh well, so much for my memory!  It felt wider at the top and part of the middle.  Maybe because it wasn't so crowded and the snow was really nice.
> 
> My 10 y/o is light so doesn't have much momentum and he doesn't like to go above a certain speed.  He wound up having to walk a bit both times we did the run.  Actually, you have to walk/skate a bit off the lift at the top as well with the terrain they had open on Saturday.  No big deal, but most casual skiers are truly casual.



I like what they did. The trail skis better now without that double fall line and it really does ski wider. Your perception is accurate. 

But the run out needs to be reshaped so that the last pitch is not 100 yards from the lift with an uphill section at the end.


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2016)

They have widened WayOut, and it skis great now, reallygreat.  The kids are already hitting theledge on the left with the flat landing with not so pretty results. The merge into Clairs is much wider and nowthe trail skis like GS Trail. We were tuckingmost of it. Lots of fun. The uphill isstill a problem at the bottom, but it will give the new food truck a lot ofbusiness.


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## RichT (Jan 10, 2016)

Thank You, is that why the interest rate is so high too?

And yes Wayout is different, they took out the runup on skiers left, so it isn't wider but flatter side to side. also it is rated from all of the other trails over there so that make it a blue. Remember trail ratings are marked according to that hill only.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 11, 2016)

All my friends at the mountain love the Peaks people..
They say they are around... Checking stuff out and super nice..


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## catskillman (Jan 11, 2016)

Funky_Catskills said:


> All my friends at the mountain love the Peaks people..
> They say they are around... Checking stuff out and super nice..


Yeah - the only compliant I heard is they are not David....  He is missed.


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 11, 2016)

catskillman said:


> Yeah - the only compliant I heard is they are not David....  He is missed.



Saw David in the bagel shop this morning....
he seemed happy...   I never talk about the mountain politics with him...


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## andrec10 (Jan 11, 2016)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Saw David in the bagel shop this morning....
> he seemed happy...   I never talk about the mountain politics with him...



I would be happy too with that kind of payout. Though, money is not everything!


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## Funky_Catskills (Jan 11, 2016)

andrec10 said:


> I would be happy too with that kind of payout. Though, money is not everything!



Now he can completely concentrate on his art...


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## andrec10 (Jan 11, 2016)

Funky_Catskills said:


> Now he can completely concentrate on his art...



Thats what I heard too.


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