# Just going to leave this here



## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

http://www.liftopia.com/blog/snowboarding-stall/


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2013)

That was an interesting read, don't know if will help get more women into snowboarding but it be cool if it did.


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## dmc (Mar 13, 2013)

For some reason this doesn't concern me..  
Things change..  I like it that way.

Seems it's more interesting to skiers than snowboarders... Almost like "_See!!! I told you it was a fad_"....


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

I think its very simple. Skis are a superior tool and the younguns no longer think its ghey. I can agree with one thing in the article, ticket prices being exorbitent, especially for the young and struggling.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2013)

Morwax said:


> I think its very simple. Skis are a superior tool and the younguns no longer think its ghey.



I think that stating that "Skis are a superior tool" is ghey..........and I'm a skier. 

Some people prefer snowboarding, some prefer skiing.  Who cares?


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think that stating that "Skis are a superior tool" is ghey..........and I'm a skier.
> 
> Some people prefer snowboarding, some prefer skiing.  Who cares?


 Sarcasm, humor?


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think that stating that "Skis are a superior tool" is ghey..........and I'm a skier.
> 
> Some people prefer snowboarding, some prefer skiing.  Who cares?


  Even if it is true.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Even if it is true.



Why is that true. I am happy to have more people come the hills it keeps them open. Enjoy any device you want on the hill.


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Why is that true. I am happy to have more people come the hills it keeps them open. Enjoy any device you want on the hill.


 I was reffering to my superior tool and kids not thinking skiing is lame anymore comment. I dont care what anyone rides.. Just stating what to me seems obvious as to why boarding has peaked somewhat as the article states.


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## dmc (Mar 13, 2013)

Morwax said:


> tool


.....


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

You guys act like I killed your dog. Im just stating my thoughts on the article WOW can anyone read a thread in context?


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## fbrissette (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think that stating that "Skis are a superior tool" is ghey..........and I'm a skier.
> 
> Some people prefer snowboarding, some prefer skiing.  Who cares?



I don't care either.  What Morwax could have stated ( and a lot more elegantly), is that snowboarding carries a few disadvantages:

- repetitive buckling and unbuckling
- more difficult on the flats and slight uphills
- it's more difficult to teach your kids (to either ski or board) when you're riding a board
- less efficient to explore the backcountry

What snowboarding had going real strong, was that it was much cooler than skiing for a long while.   Now that skiing is cool again, I think these disadvantages come a little bit more into play.


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I don't care either.  What Morwax could have stated ( and a lot more elegantly), is that snowboarding carries a few disadvantages:
> 
> - repetitive buckling and unbuckling
> - more difficult on the flats and slight uphills
> ...


 Thank you.. I guess I could have used more tact.. I forgot how sensitive snowboarders are... LOL


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I think that stating that "Skis are a superior tool" is ghey..........and I'm a skier.



Except it's true; regardless of whether you prefer skiing or prefer snowboarding, or couldn't care less either way, skis really _are_ a _"superior snow tool"_.  

You dont tend to see a lot of military snowboard outfits or backcountry snowboard rescue teams.  I'd think even the most ardent snowboarders would admit this much.


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## bobbutts (Mar 13, 2013)

The big difference in snowboarding for me was how fast I went from beginner to decent.  Learning to ski in the 80's I remember it taking many days and lessons before I really started to get it.  I guess it's faster to learn on skis now too with improved equipment.  I always sort of felt like if someone wanted to progress fast, snowboard was the way to go though.

Snowboard used to be the superior tool for powder.  I think skis catching up there has plenty of impact too.  I'd venture to say powder is a bigger niche vs. park.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Except it's true; regardless of whether you prefer skiing or prefer snowboarding, or couldn't care less either way, skis really _are_ a _"superior snow tool"_.
> 
> You dont tend to see a lot of military snowboard outfits or backcountry snowboard rescue teams.  I'd think even the most ardent snowboarders would admit this much.



Skiing, snowboarding, tele, whatever are tools for having fun.  None are inherently better than the other when fun is a highly personal metric.


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> The big difference in snowboarding for me was how fast I went from beginner to decent.  Learning to ski in the 80's I remember it taking many days and lessons before I really started to get it.  I guess it's faster to learn on skis now too with improved equipment.  I always sort of felt like if someone wanted to progress fast, snowboard was the way to go though.


 I completely agree.. Snowboarding was fairly easy to learn although I attribute some of that to being a skier first. If someone was just starting out though and I had to recommend a TOOL id suggest skis for the long haul and I think thats what alot of newbs are doing.


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## skiking4 (Mar 13, 2013)

So... no stats concerning skier totals?


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

http://www.examiner.com/article/snowboarding-numbers-on-decline-skiing-owns-a-cool-factor-once-again


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

Wow this seems to be a hot topic
http://www.examiner.com/article/snowboarding-numbers-on-decline-skiing-owns-a-cool-factor-once-again


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Skiing, snowboarding, tele, whatever are tools for having fun. * None are inherently better than the other when fun is a highly personal metric.*



Well, "fun" is a an entirely different subject.  

The statement he made was that skis are a _"superior snow tool"_ , which is true regardless of whether you're having fun or not.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 13, 2013)

Have fun. Who cares with what. All you need chill pills.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 13, 2013)

I could see people making the argument that a board is a better "tool" for riding Powder, Switch, Tight Trees, Carving (a good boarder can literally get so far over they can touch the snow with their nose, that can't be done on skis).   Hell, I know people who board because they prefer the comfort and warmth of snowboard boots over ski boots.  

Let's not forget individual skill. For some people boarding comes much more naturally to them than skiing and vice versa.  I progressed at skiing very fast as a young kid.  I put in a lot of time on a board and never got beyond a low intermediate level.  I had other friends who skied for years and were just okay, but by the end of their first year on a snowboard were hiking the Chin at Stowe with me.  

He expressed his opinion of what he thinks is a better tool for him.  To make a blanket statement that one is the definitive "superior snow tool" than the other is nonsense.  Maybe it is for you, but it's not the superior snow tool for everyone.


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## JPTracker (Mar 13, 2013)

I think the first line of the article says a lot



> Snowboarding has always been a bit of a rebellious pursuit – “not your father’s sport”



For new kids coming into the sport their father's are snow boarders. So snow boarding is no longer rebellious therefore kids may now be choosing skis to rebel.


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## Gilligan (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I could see people making the argument that a board is a better "tool" for riding Powder, Switch, Tight Trees, Carving (a good boarder can literally get so far over they can touch the snow with their nose, that can't be done on skis).   Hell, I know people who board because they prefer the comfort and warmth of snowboard boots over ski boots.


If snowboards are so good at carving, then why are skis faster when racing?


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## octopus (Mar 13, 2013)

i agree, skiers are superior tools.


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I could see people making the argument that a board is a better "tool" for riding Powder, Switch, Tight Trees, Carving (a good boarder can literally get so far over they can touch the snow with their nose, that can't be done on skis).   Hell, I know people who board because they prefer the comfort and warmth of snowboard boots over ski boots.
> 
> Let's not forget individual skill. For some people boarding comes much more naturally to them than skiing and vice versa.  I progressed at skiing very fast as a young kid.  I put in a lot of time on a board and never got beyond a low intermediate level.  I had other friends who skied for years and were just okay, but by the end of their first year on a snowboard were hiking the Chin at Stowe with me.
> 
> He expressed his opinion of what he thinks is a better tool for him.  To make a blanket statement that one is the definitive "superior snow tool" than the other is nonsense.  Maybe it is for you, but it's not the superior snow tool for everyone.


 You seem so offended by this.. we are only talking about wood we strap to our feet, why take it so personally.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 13, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> He expressed his opinion of what he thinks is a better tool for him.*  To make a blanket statement that one is the definitive "superior snow tool" than the other is nonsense.*  Maybe it is for you, but it's not the superior snow tool for everyone.



Please explain why various military groups use skis rather than snowboards?
Please explain why backcountry rescue is probably something like 98% skiers?

I think (or at least thought) the reason is pretty obvious. 

 Skis ARE a _"superior snow tool"_ there's really not a debate to be had, and it's not an anti-snowboarder statement and it's not an "opinion", it's a fact.  

Snowboards simply have significant, real world, all-mountain practical limitations that skis do not.


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## conwayeast (Mar 14, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> (a good boarder can literally get so far over they can touch the snow with their nose, that can't be done on skis).


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2013)

Morwax said:


> You seem so offended by this.. we are only talking about wood we strap to our feet, why take it so personally.



Not offended in the slightest.  I ski.  I just think your opinion is just yours and not shared by everyone.  If it was than no one would snowboard.



BenedictGomez said:


> Please explain why various military groups use skis rather than snowboards?
> Please explain why backcountry rescue is probably something like 98% skiers?
> 
> I think (or at least thought) the reason is pretty obvious.
> ...



I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the fact that skis are better for military and SAR purposes, that that makes it a "fact" that skis are the better tool for everyone to use to travel down a mountain.

There are no "facts" when it's up to the individual to decide what the best tool for the job is.  Some people prefer snowboards as the best tool for getting down the mountain.  Try convincing them that skis are better "tools".  You can't because for them, skis are not the better "tools".


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## Cornhead (Mar 14, 2013)

octopus said:


> i agree, skiers are superior tools.



:smile: I love boarders, well one anyway, he's got half of my DNA...I think.:wink:


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## STREETSKIER (Mar 14, 2013)

Morwax said:


> I think its very simple. Skis are a superior tool and the younguns no longer think its ghey. I can agree with one thing in the article, ticket prices being exorbitent, especially for the young and struggling.


You r a superior tool


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

"superior tool"  haha...

Tool....


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Please explain why various military groups use skis rather than snowboards?
> Please explain why backcountry rescue is probably something like 98% skiers?
> 
> I think (or at least thought) the reason is pretty obvious.
> ...



Tool for what? For having fun? For mountain rescue?  

Skis were created 100's of years ago for utility...  Delivering mail... Attacking the next town over....
Snowboarding was created just for fun... Not other reason..  

And I'm really OK with this...  I actually snowboard just to have fun..

And for BC - I do use a split board so I can split anywhere a skier can.  In fact most skiers like to skin behind me because on the sweet tracks I lay down on the skin..


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## fbrissette (Mar 14, 2013)

dmc said:


> Tool for what? For having fun? For mountain rescue?
> 
> Skis were created 100's of years ago for utility...  Delivering mail... Attacking the next town over....
> Snowboarding was created just for fun... Not other reason..
> ...



I you do one up and down run, yes that is correct.  Once you have to do several ups and down, you'll waste a shit load of time waiting for transitions (one of my best backcountry pal is on a split board).

Leaving for the haute route (Chamonix-Zermatt) in 10 days.  We could NOT find a single experienced guide to accept a splitboard on that trek.   On some days, speed is the essence to avoid snow instability in the afternoon, and all contacted guides said that splitboarding was not safe on this classic route which require several transitions per day.  As a skier I can remove skins and be ready to go in 60 seconds.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I you do one up and down run, yes that is correct.  Once you have to do several ups and down, you'll waste a shit load of time waiting for transitions (one of my best backcountry pal is on a split board).
> 
> Leaving for the haute route (Chamonix-Zermatt) in 10 days.  We could NOT find a single experienced guide to accept a splitboard on that trek.   On some days, speed is the essence to avoid snow instability in the afternoon, and all contacted guides said that splitboarding was not safe on this classic route which require several transitions per day.  As a skier I can remove skins and be ready to go in 60 seconds.



My friends don't complain about my transition time..

And my friends that Tele did the Haute Rt a few years ago - it was only AT gear..
Tele was rare from what I heard..  I know people that split a ton of routes...  

But...
whatever...   * Skiers win*.... Is that what you want?  because again... I'm good with that..


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## Morwax (Mar 14, 2013)

dmc said:


> But...
> whatever...   * Skiers win*.... Is that what you want?  because again... I'm good with that..



 LOL....     Butthurt


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Morwax said:


> LOL....     Butthurt



what the fukc is that supposed to mean?

I aquiesce to skis being the way to go on long routes...you win...

Or are just being a tool?


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## C-Rex (Mar 14, 2013)

I snowboard, and I've never skied. Not even once.  I snowboard because I prefer standing sideways and "riding" a board rather than having it be an extension of my feet.  The less natural motion makes it feel like more of an accomplishment when it's done right.  I guess I relate it to skateboarding vs roller blading.  I did both as a kid, and while I was better at roller blading, that was because the natural balance and position of it made it easier.  I got way more satisfaction out of skateboarding even though I was limited in what I could do on one.  

Before anyone freaks out, I'm not saying that one is harder than the other, or anything like that.  It's just how I, personally, feel about it.  I do agree that skis are a better mountain "tool".  But tools are for work, and I prefer fun.  I'll admit that I have recently considered learning to ski because I want to get into the side and backcountry more.  But I have to say that the big reason I haven't, is because so many skiers are such douche-bags about it.  And I'm not just talking about Morwax, I have friends with the same attitude, and it's just lame.  Not everything is a competition.  If I wanted to compete, I'd sign up for races and park comps.  I prefer to just have fun and compete with myself.  Setting a new personal best is alway more satisfying than beating another person anyway.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

C-Rex... come out to the BC with me sometime..
My tele crew is cool with riders...


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## Morwax (Mar 14, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I snowboard, and I've never skied. Not even once.  I snowboard because I prefer standing sideways
> so many skiers are such douche-bags about it.


 Well said, no bias here


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## Nick (Mar 14, 2013)

Haha, I'm pretty sure every commentator on that Liftopia blog post is from AlpineZone :lol: 

I see bobbutts, dmc, conwayeast .... :lol:


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Well said, no bias here



funny... 
You act like a total "tool" but I don't think all people that ski are "tools"...  

Did you get hit on the head and suddenly your brain thought it was in 1991?


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## Morwax (Mar 14, 2013)

dmc said:


> funny...
> You act like a total "tool" but I don't think all people that ski are "tools"...
> 
> Did you get hit on the head and suddenly your brain thought it was in 1991?


 Naaa.. a tool is someone who gets butthurt about everything posted on the internet. You dont seem to be able to control your emotions very well with all the attempts at insults. Am I a tool? Yes I am a tool.. Im a BS meter!


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## fbrissette (Mar 14, 2013)

dmc said:


> My friends don't complain about my transition time..
> 
> And my friends that Tele did the Haute Rt a few years ago - it was only AT gear..
> Tele was rare from what I heard..  I know people that split a ton of routes...
> ...



This has nothing to do with winning.  I did actually snowboard a while back (when it was cool - got back into skiing with my kid).  Nearly half of my buddies are on snowboards.  My best backcountry partner is on a splitboard.  This thread is about some inherent limitations of snowboards. Nothing else.  I mean no disrespect whatsoever to snowboarders.

On most backcountry outings a splitboard (or regular board with snowshoes) is perfectly adequate.  We don't complain about waiting, but we do in fact wait after snowboarders in the backcountry.   When you do a single up and down, once at the top, you change, you drink, you eat and nobody minds the waiting.   

With respect to the haute route, here's an example of an answer from an experienced guide:

_To the split board question, it is possible to do either route with a split board if the boarder is very strong and competent, and very fast and efficient in his/her transitions. Possible, but there are several issues. First, the route is travers-y by nature with lots of flat sections and long stretches of up-and-down terrain. Dealing with terrain where a skier can skate for a few hundred yards or sort of "walk" along on flat ground for a while, is tricky with a split board, especially where such sections are long enough and complex enough that the boarder might have to do multiple transitions where the skiers need do none. Second, there is usually a lot of traversing or zig-zagging uphill on firm steep slopes, and the soft boots combined with the width of split-board "skis" make it quite hard to hold an edge while skinning on this terrain, and it also puts a lot of stress on the bindings. We've seen several binding failures in these situations. Finally, the boarder would need to make sure both that he/she could find boot crampons that fit and stay on the boots, and also ski crampons that would work with the split board.  __In short I would say that in a private group, where everyone is buddies and willing to wait for each other, it could work, again provided you can work out the boot and ski crampon issues. 


_


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

I have a hard boot/plate setup for anything other than SlackCountry..
They fit my crampons...  Works great!


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Naaa.. a tool is someone who gets butthurt about everything posted on the internet. You dont seem to be able to control your emotions very well with all the attempts at insults. Am I a tool? Yes I am a tool.. Im a BS meter!



tool...


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> This thread is about some inherent limitations of snowboards. Nothing else.



Actually it's not about that at all.  It's a thread is about the plateau of snowboarder numbers at recreational downhill areas.  Someone twisted it into a discussion about skis vs snowboards as a tool. For recreational, downhill activities that's a pretty weak limb to climb out on to make a case for one being a better "tool" than the other.  But when making a sweeping generalizations across a broad range of activities "skis" have the semantic advantage of encompassing a wide range of definitions where "snowboard" is a more specific term.  When you lump XC, BC, AT, Alpine, Tele, etc into the term "ski"....yup you get a pretty wide range of capabilities.  I wonder how many GS skis and park skis are used for military purposes.  And I'd sure rather skin uphill on my splitboard than my alpine skis.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> And I'd sure rather skin uphill on my splitboard than my alpine skis.



Gotta love that wall2wall carpeting from those fat skins...


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## Nick (Mar 14, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Actually it's not about that at all.  It's a thread is about the plateau of snowboarder numbers at recreational downhill areas.  Someone twisted it into a discussion about skis vs snowboards as a tool. For recreational, downhill activities that's a pretty weak limb to climb out on to make a case for one being a better "tool" than the other.  But when making a sweeping generalizations across a broad range of activities "skis" have the semantic advantage of encompassing a wide range of definitions where "snowboard" is a more specific term.  When you lump XC, BC, AT, Alpine, Tele, etc into the term "ski"....yup you get a pretty wide range of capabilities.  I wonder how many GS skis and park skis are used for military purposes.  And I'd sure rather skin uphill on my splitboard than my alpine skis.



I for one could care less if someone is on a snowboard, a splitboard, a monoski, teles, powder skis, GS skis, sled dogs, an inflatable tube (well maybe the last one). 

I do think snowboarding is seeing a decline in popularity. That's pretty obvious. But it's not going to go away. And in some ways a decline or lessening in popularity of snowboards might ironically make it more "cool" again. Kind of like Tele, but in an underground way. 

I don't see the need to rip on anyone for their choice. Is a snowboard as easy on a traverse? Hell no. But if someone has a snowboard and wants to do it ... well go nuts. It's their choice. 

It's like iPhone vs. Android. I just don't really get it. I prefer Android but i don't "hate" on iPhone users. Whatevs.


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2013)

Nick said:


> It's like iPhone vs. Android. I just don't really get it. I prefer Android but i don't "hate" on iPhone users. Whatevs.



You're missing the point Nick.  The military uses Blackberry so therefore Blackberry IS a _"superior tool" _there's really not a debate to be had, and it's not an anti-iphone or Android statement and it's not an "opinion", it's a fact.


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## Bene288 (Mar 14, 2013)

The popularity will come back. It's just like any other fad. It peaks, fizzles, burns out then peaks again. Most of my friends snowboard. But I'm from that generation when skiing was lame and snowboards were the coolest thing. I picked up skiing because all of my friends were snowboarding. A rebellion inside a rebellion I guess. That and I could hardly stand up on a board. Skiing will be lame again. I'd ride with some of the 90's snowboard rats over the new trick skiers any day.


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## witch hobble (Mar 14, 2013)

"Lazinessifying"???? Nick???? I think you just proved your own point.  Grab a thesaurus dude!

Bubbles burst.  Flames die out.  Evolution happens.  Snowboarding will survive because it is fun.  People bitch about inane bullshit in forums and comment sections attached to articles in order to fill the gaping voids in their souls.


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## C-Rex (Mar 14, 2013)

Morwax does it to fill the gaping void between his legs...

sorry, I couldn't resist   Truth is, no matter how much bitching I do here, I'd ride with any of you and buy you all a beer after, becuase you all live to slide on the snow, and that's what it's all about.  :grouphug:


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## Nick (Mar 14, 2013)

witch hobble said:


> "Lazinessifying"???? Nick???? I think you just proved your own point.  Grab a thesaurus dude!
> 
> Bubbles burst.  Flames die out.  Evolution happens.  Snowboarding will survive because it is fun.  People bitch about inane bullshit in forums and comment sections attached to articles in order to fill the gaping voids in their souls.



I must have a huge void.


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## Nick (Mar 14, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> sorry, I couldn't resist   Truth is, no matter how much bitching I do here, I'd ride with any of you and buy you all a beer after, becuase you all live to slide on the snow, and that's what it's all about.  :grouphug:



+1


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the fact that skis are better for military and SAR purposes, that that makes it a "fact" that skis are the better tool for everyone to use to* travel down a mountain.* There are no "facts" when it's up to the individual to decide what the best tool for the job is.  Some people prefer snowboards as the best tool for *getting down the mountain*.



There is a helluva lot more to a snow tool than "getting down a  mountain", which, you of course know.  

There's getting UP the mountain,  there's traversing ACROSS perhaps hundreds of yards of flats, there's maneuvering through endless  fields of uneven uphill/downhill terrain etc...

You know all of this of course, and are being intentionally obtuse ostensibly for the purpose of making a self-righteous point that doesn't need making in the first place.   Nobody is saying there is anything wrong or bad with or about snowboarding, but to claim somehow that a snowboard is as superior of an alpine tool as skis is simply ridiculous.





Nick said:


> I do think *snowboarding is seeing a decline in popularity. That's pretty obvious. But it's not going to go away.*



I think the next snowboard boom will happen a few years after that ~10 year chunk of people that started snowboarding when it was "cool" start to have kids.  You have TONS of snowboarders that are roughly 23 to 33 years old, and it seems logical to me that if the parents snowboard, they'll put kids into snowboard lessons when they're 5 or 6.  One potential obstacle to that hypothesis is the mentality that seems to exist among both skiers and snowboarders that it's "better to start a kid on skis first" than on a snowboard.


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## fbrissette (Mar 14, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Truth is, no matter how much bitching I do here, I'd ride with any of you and buy you all a beer after, becuase you all live to slide on the snow, and that's what it's all about.  :grouphug:



I'll drink to that.  Especially if the '_slow to transition_'  and '_unable to traverse in steep icy conditions_' snowboarders pay the first round !


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2013)

Bene288 said:


> The popularity will come back. It's just like any other fad. It peaks, fizzles, burns out then peaks again. Most of my friends snowboard. But* I'm from that generation when skiing was lame and snowboards were the coolest thing. I picked up skiing because all of my friends were snowboarding. A rebellion inside a rebellion I guess.*



_I'm *SUCH* a nonconformist, that I'm NOT going to conform to the rest of you!_


[video]http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/154495/goth-served[/video]


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> There's getting UP the mountain,  there's traversing ACROSS perhaps hundreds of yards of flats, there's maneuvering through endless  fields of uneven uphill/downhill terrain etc...



Sounds like my entire week in Kashmir..  Add in the altitude while your at it... 

In fact it sounds like my last trip to Jackson too..  Spent most of the week OB on split.

One thing is yes - on a splitboard you need to understand that things are different between 1 and 2 planks and different lines may be thought of for approaches and exits...   Traverses do suck and they need to maintain some downhill because we can't skate - problem with traversin is it can cramp you up being in that posisition so you need to be able to switch to relieve the pain..   But I can traverse the headwall at Tucks pretty well..  Have gone from Sluice into the Chute a bunch of times..  Just need speed for any little uphills..


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> There's getting UP the mountain,  there's traversing ACROSS perhaps hundreds of yards of flats, there's maneuvering through endless  fields of uneven uphill/downhill terrain etc...



Yeah XC skis are a FAR superior snow tool for those things as compared to alpine skis.  But I still think alpine skis are OK.  What was the OP about again?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> You know all of this of course, and are being intentionally obtuse ostensibly for the purpose of making a self-righteous point that doesn't need making in the first place.   Nobody is saying there is anything wrong or bad with or about snowboarding, but to claim somehow that a snowboard is as superior of an alpine tool as skis is simply ridiculous.



No.  I disagree with your "facts".  No amount of bullshit you spew is going to change that.  And you disagree with me.  Not going to waste my time further with this discussion.  Have fun sliding on "factually" the best tools for snow.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> No.  I disagree with your "facts".  No amount of bullshit you spew is going to change that.



Interesting "bullshit".

So moving across a 1/3 mile flat section on a snowboard is as efficient as doing so on skis?

So moving up a 45 yard hill section to a plateau is as efficient on a snowboard as it is on skis?

So the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese?


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## Gilligan (Mar 14, 2013)

dmc said:


> Sounds like my entire week in Kashmir..  Add in the altitude while your at it...
> 
> In fact it sounds like my last trip to Jackson too..  Spent most of the week OB on split.
> 
> One thing is yes - on a splitboard you need to understand that things are different between 1 and 2 planks and different lines may be thought of for approaches and exits...   Traverses do suck and they need to maintain some downhill because we can't skate - problem with traversin is it can cramp you up being in that posisition so you need to be able to switch to relieve the pain..   But I can traverse the headwall at Tucks pretty well..  Have gone from Sluice into the Chute a bunch of times..  Just need speed for any little uphills..


Once you "split" a board, aren't you turning them into skis and therefore admitting that 2 skis are better than one board? I have never heard of skiers locking their skis together because they suddenly needed a snowboard.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Once you "split" a board, aren't you turning them into skis and therefore admitting that 2 skis are better than one board? I have never heard of skiers locking their skis together because they suddenly needed a snowboard.



haha... funny..  
All that matters is what happens when your going down the hill... 
Splits and snowshoes and skins and crampons are just tools to get to the top...

I do kid some of my hardcore skier friends that slalom water ski....


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Once you "split" a board, aren't you turning them into skis and therefore admitting that 2 skis are better than one board?



Oh dear God, noez.   

This was the (rather) obvious point I was going to make, but didnt because I didnt want to throw a handgrenade down a narrow hallway.

Detonation imminent.......


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## conwayeast (Mar 14, 2013)

This whole debate is so fucking stupid I can't stand it. As a snowboarder, skis surely do look like more "efficient" mountain "tools". Right tool for the right job right? You also have 2 fucking poles to push you around. So what I can gather from this topic is if a. You want a tool get a ski, and b. if you want to have fun get a snowboard.  I snowboard because it is fun. I do not give a flying fuck if you think those 2 planks are more efficient. At the end of the day you are not changing anyone's mind either way. Rather than sitting her debating this dumb fucking topic, Go find some snow to slide. Next topic please.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 14, 2013)

conwayeast said:


> This whole debate is so fucking stupid I can't stand it. As a snowboarder, skis surely do look like more "efficient" mountain "tools". Right tool for the right job right? You also have 2 fucking poles to push you around. So what I can gather from this topic is if a. You want a tool get a ski, and b. if you want to have fun get a snowboard.  I snowboard because it is fun. I do not give a flying fuck if you think those 2 planks are more efficient. At the end of the day you are not changing anyone's mind either way. Rather than sitting her debating this dumb fucking topic, Go find some snow to slide. Next topic please.


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## fbrissette (Mar 14, 2013)

conwayeast said:


> ...so fucking stupid I can't stand it. ... You also have 2 fucking poles ... I do not give a flying fuck ... debating this dumb fucking topic,



DOGG ?  Is that you ?


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## C-Rex (Mar 14, 2013)

Threads like this are why more people should smoke weed.


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## Cannonball (Mar 14, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Oh dear God, noez.
> 
> This was the (rather) obvious point I was going to make, but didnt because I didnt want to throw a handgrenade down a narrow hallway.
> 
> Detonation imminent.......



Yawn.... I'm going out snowboarding. I guess I suffer the uphills by riding the lift.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Yawn.... I'm going out snowboarding. I guess I suffer the uphills by riding the lift.



Same... Got some time between calls...


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## Morwax (Mar 14, 2013)

It would be nice if people would read the article.. then look at my supposed inflammatory remarks about Skis being a superior tool and youguns not seeing skiing as ghey.  NOT ONE person came out and said skiing was never ghey. Only thatskis were not a better tool.. I did not say snow boarding was ghey or that people should not do it etc.. Only the FACT that skis are more versatile as a reason why some would cross over or start out on skis.  I think what we have here are perpetually offended snowboarders mixed in with an over sensitive (to the whole issue) skiing crowd. I do both to some extent but my skills at one are far more refined than the other. They both have pros and cons and I never really wanted to get into that entire issue as I always assumed it was a given.


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## dmc (Mar 14, 2013)

I take issue with your use of "ghey"..


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## C-Rex (Mar 14, 2013)

yeah, I prefer "faggy" or "anti-hetero".


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## Morwax (Mar 14, 2013)

You ladies going out today.. 24000 vertical between 10 and noon for me.


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## dlague (Mar 15, 2013)

Late to the party!  

I am surprised that no one mentioned the rise of twin tips!  I read another article that discussed the migration from snowboarding with many newer skiers turning in that direction.  Twin tips in the park has gotten sexy per se.  In addition, back country skiing has gotten much more visiblity especially since the more successful movie companies are exposing this sport becuase it films nice.

Personally I do not really care!  Our family is a mixed bag when it come to skiing and snowboarding!


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## ScottySkis (Mar 15, 2013)

This thread should be locked before it gets bad.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 15, 2013)

dlague said:


> Late to the party!
> 
> I am surprised that no one mentioned the rise of twin tips!



Well, this exact thread has been started at least 2 other times in the last few weeks, and twin tips were mentioned in those, lol.


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## Morwax (Mar 15, 2013)

Scotty said:


> This thread should be locked before it gets bad.


 Why is dmc coming back?


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## ScottySkis (Mar 15, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Why is dmc coming back?



I sure hope so, I he here why start fights , this should be fun times.


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## Morwax (Mar 15, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I sure hope so, I he here why start fights , this should be fun times.


 You two girls are the ones that got butthurt... whats up with that, all I did was post an article!uke:


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## dmc (Mar 15, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Well, this exact thread has been started at least 2 other times in the last few weeks, and twin tips were mentioned in those, lol.



And rockering...  Was that a snowboard first thing? I still haven't tried one..


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## ScottySkis (Mar 15, 2013)

Morwax said:


> You two girls are the ones that got butthurt... whats up with that, all I did was post an article!uke:



I didn't get but hurt , just you not the first person like this and you unfortunately will not be the one either.


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## Morwax (Mar 15, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I didn't get but hurt , just you not the first person like this and you unfortunately will not be the one either.


  Just me not will not be the one either?


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## Morwax (Mar 15, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I didn't get but hurt , just you not the first person like this and you unfortunately will not be the one either.


 Now I get it..... You have a realy hard time with grammer and you misread my posts to think I was knocking snowboarding. You probably did not read the article first because you would have understood my comments. I ride and ski and have no bias.


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## fbrissette (Mar 15, 2013)

dmc said:


> And rockering...  Was that a snowboard first thing? I still haven't tried one..



As far as I know rockers are commonly attributed to big mountain skier Shane McConkey.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volant_Spatula

Twin tips skis did also exist before snowboards.  The Olin mark IV comp  in the 70's had them.  Can't recall any other brands with twin tips however.

Don't know how rockered snowboards perform, but for my type of skiing (woods and backcountry), rockers are a much much bigger revolution than shaped skis.


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## dmc (Mar 15, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> As far as I know rockers are commonly attributed to big mountain skier Shane McConkey.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volant_Spatula
> 
> Twin tips skis did also exist before snowboards.  The Olin mark IV comp  in the 70's had them.  Can't recall any other brands with twin tips however.
> 
> Don't know how rockered snowboards perform, but for my type of skiing (woods and backcountry), rockers are a much much bigger revolution than shaped skis.



Right.... McConkey..  hero....

I'm going to check the technology for my next board...   
Everyone I know that rides/skis them loves them..  

I had a pair of MarkIVs.... Orangeish right?  Great bump skis before there were actually bump skies...


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## Abubob (Mar 15, 2013)

My brother had a pair of Mark IVs back in the day and another friend of mine worked in the Middletown CT factory for a time. And I demoed a pair of twin tip Rossi's for tree skiing a few years ago and loved them. Now its all rocker twins - which I saw a lot of at Jay a couple weeks ago. Back to the demos ...

As far as snowboarding on the decline it's not an unexpected event. It will probably level off at some point and not decline into oblivion. There's still a lot of cool left to it. I tried it once back in the 90's - just didn't care for it. I've always gone skiing with snowboarders. To me it a means to the same end. By the same token though I know of two snowboarders that have gone back to skiing for the backcountry because it's easier and cheaper than a split board.

The thing that was more interesting to me in the article was the low number of female riders. I thought about this but can't verify it in my own experience. I've known plenty of female riders - all much younger than me of course.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey ya know what , in the larger order of life this debate is a fn yawner :dunce:, listen in this ole mans book IT IS ALL GOOD , 

 It ALL generates  dinero for the local economy , keeps our fav places crankin chairs up da slope and  keeps dipshits like us who fn live and breathe this stuff grinnin like damn insane clowns . 

Live  n   Let LIVE , i am ALWAYS glad to partner up with any looney tune that wants to slide down baby !!!


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## Morwax (Mar 16, 2013)

Warp Daddy said:


> Hey ya know what , in the larger order of life this debate is a fn yawner :dunce:, listen in this ole mans book IT IS ALL GOOD ,
> 
> It ALL generates  dinero for the local economy , keeps our fav places crankin chairs up da slope and  keeps dipshits like us who fn live and breathe this stuff grinnin like damn insane clowns .
> 
> Live  n   Let LIVE , i am ALWAYS glad to partner up with any looney tune that wants to slide down baby !!!



 Right, we get it.. nobody cares about the great ski vs snowboard debate. HOWEVER unless you did not read the article??? Its about declining numbers of new snowboarders..nothing else. It doesnt say one is better than the other.
 After posting the article I mentioned skis being more useful around the resort and kids not thinking skis were for old gapers anymore as plausible reasons for the declining numbers.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 16, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Right, we get it.. nobody cares about the great ski vs snowboard debate. HOWEVER unless you did not read the article??? Its about declining numbers of new snowboarders..nothing else. It doesnt say one is better than the other.
> After posting the article I mentioned skis being more useful around the resort and kids not thinking skis were for old gapers anymore as plausible reasons for the declining numbers.


:


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## Morwax (Mar 16, 2013)

Scotty said:


> :


 Dont you have anything to do..place to go? Or do you just monitor this sight all day waiting to make inane comments.
 Do me a favor.. badger someone else, the grown ups are talking


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## ScottySkis (Mar 16, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Dont you have anything to do..place to go? Or do you just monitor this sight all day waiting to make inane comments.
> Do me a favor.. badger someone else, the grown ups are talking


No I am not skiing today. Playing with puppies at home and irritating you is fun times..!!!!


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## Cannonball (Mar 17, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Right, we get it.. nobody cares about the great ski vs snowboard debate. HOWEVER unless you did not read the article??? Its about declining numbers of new snowboarders..nothing else. It doesnt say one is better than the other.
> After posting the article I mentioned skis being more useful around the resort and kids not thinking skis were for old gapers anymore as plausible reasons for the declining numbers.



But wasn't there also a whole dyslexic, homophobic, gung-ho military, ultra-elitist component to the argument too?  Something about the non-debatable facts of anti-"ghey" military spending that makes skiing superior?  

So, sit me at the kids table. Because if this is the "grown ups talking" I'm happy to pay the bills for the home but I sure don't want them out on the roads.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 17, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> But wasn't there also a whole dyslexic, homophobic, gung-ho military, ultra-elitist component to the argument too?  Something about the non-debatable facts of anti-"ghey" military spending that makes skiing superior?
> 
> So, sit me at the kids table. Because if this is the "grown ups talking" I'm happy to pay the bills for the home but I sure don't want them out on the roads.



+100 , 

Question is why come to an fourm with people who love skiing and snowboarding and think 100% of people on here are going to the think things through first?


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## Bene288 (Mar 17, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Dont you have anything to do..place to go? Or do you just monitor this sight all day waiting to make inane comments.
> Do me a favor.. badger someone else, the grown ups are talking



Yeah there's nothing more grown up than using words like "ghey" and "butthurt".


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## Morwax (Mar 17, 2013)

OMFG   I have offended the gheys again uke:


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## bobbutts (Mar 17, 2013)

This feels like a Summer thread.
is "Gay" really blocked out here? or people just prefer "ghey"?


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## bobbutts (Mar 17, 2013)

Morwax said:


> OMFG   I have offended the gheys again uke:



Are you expecting praise for your homophobia?  
It's indicating that you are stupid, intolerant, and inconsiderate.


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## Morwax (Mar 17, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> This feels like a Summer thread.
> is "Gay" really blocked out here? or people just prefer "ghey"?


 Im offended by that word "summer"..


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## Morwax (Mar 17, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> Are you expecting praise for your homophobia?
> It's indicating that you are stupid, intolerant, and inconsiderate.


 Another perpetually offended word policeman.. What word would you use in this sentence.
 Kids coming to slide down the mountain no longer find skis ________________.


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## Morwax (Mar 17, 2013)

I just realized a guy named bobutts is calling me a homophobe.. :idea:


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## bobbutts (Mar 17, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Another perpetually offended word policeman.. What word would you use in this sentence.
> Kids coming to slide down the mountain no longer find skis ________________.


So you're saying ghey is the only possible word to use there?  Sorry, deflection fail, I'm not offended nor am I with the word police.  I'm calling you and only you out directly.


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## Morwax (Mar 17, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> So you're saying ghey is the only possible word to use there?  Sorry, deflection fail, I'm not offended nor am I with the word police.  I'm calling you and only you out directly.


 Queer? Is that ok or is your sphincter getting all tight again?


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## Gilligan (Mar 17, 2013)

Using "gay" as an insult is just plain wrong. Take that stuff over to KillingtonZone where it belongs.


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## Morwax (Mar 17, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Using "gay" as an insult is just plain wrong. Take that stuff over to KillingtonZone where it belongs.



 Did someone use "gay" as an insult? Could you reference that post?


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## Gilligan (Mar 18, 2013)

This one is quite offensive.



Morwax said:


> It would be nice if people would read the article.. then look at my supposed inflammatory remarks about Skis being a superior tool and youguns not seeing skiing as ghey.  NOT ONE person came out and said skiing was never ghey. Only thatskis were not a better tool.. I did not say snow boarding was ghey or that people should not do it etc.. Only the FACT that skis are more versatile as a reason why some would cross over or start out on skis.  I think what we have here are perpetually offended snowboarders mixed in with an over sensitive (to the whole issue) skiing crowd. I do both to some extent but my skills at one are far more refined than the other. They both have pros and cons and I never really wanted to get into that entire issue as I always assumed it was a given.


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## Morwax (Mar 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> This one is quite offensive.


 Awwww.. im sorry  You seem to get offended quite easily. How is the whole, "leaving the house" thing going?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2013)

Going to lock this thread.  Its obvious its gone well past the point of meaningful discussion on the original subject and isn't going back there.


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