# Whole Foods parking



## ctenidae (Feb 18, 2011)

The Whole Foods in Darien, and I suspect in other places, has "reserved" parking closer to teh doors for "fuel efficient vehicles" and "carpools- 2 or more passengers." When it first opened, I thought the reserved spots were kind of stupid and a little annoying, giving Prius owners one more opportunity to be smug. I aways wanted to borrow a Hummer and park across 3 spots just out of spite.

Now, though, my opinion has changed. As time goes on, I notice more and more often that cars that clearly are not in any way shape or form "fuel efficient" are parked in those spots. Now I'm very annoyed at this abuse of the spot more than I am at the existence of the spot in the first place. For a little while I haven't been able to put my finger on just why it bothered me so much, since I don't like the spots anyway.

Last night I figured it out. As I was walking across the lot, a Touareg pulled in to a fuel efficient spot. A 16 MPG Touareg. Mom gets out, opens the back door, adn son, probably 8-9 years old, hops down. He looked at the sign, and said "Mom- this is for fuel efficient cars- is ours fuel efficient?" Mom said, "Not really, but it doesn't matter- they can't do anything about me parking here." Not sure if I muttered it loud enough for her to actually hear, but I said, "Nice lesson to teach your kid, there."

So I think that's what pisses me off about people who park land yachts in efficient spots- the attitude that the only reason to do the "right thing" is to avoid punishment for not doing it. On the philosophical scale, behavior to avoid punishment is the basest of motivations, with deciding what's right or wrong based on the possibility of punishment is only slightly higher. Ignoring the signs is, in my book, an asshole maneuver, and constitutes rude behaviour which should be punished with public scorn and ridicule.

Who's with me?

/rant off


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## SkiDork (Feb 18, 2011)

doesn't that qualify for carpool?


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## andyzee (Feb 18, 2011)

Nope, have to agree with mom, there is no law against parking there. This is nothing more than a big PR thing by the store. You have special parking for fuel efficient cars, parking for moms with kids, parking for folks picking up prescriptions at drug stores, parking for take out orders, I'm, sure I'm missing a few. The only one I respect is parking for handicapped. Now, when they come up with parking for folks over 50, I'll respect that one and park there.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 18, 2011)

I agree ctenidae.  I see that stuff all the time up here in Vermont and it makes me sick.


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## dmc (Feb 18, 2011)

If they own the property - can't they determine who parks where?

i've seen orange stickers on big cars parking in those spots at various corps I visit for work..


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Nope, have to agree with mom, there is no law against parking there. This is nothing more than a big PR thing by the store. You have special parking for fuel efficient cars, parking for moms with kids, parking for folks picking up prescriptions at drug stores, parking for take out orders, I'm, sure I'm missing a few. The only one I respect is parking for handicapped. Now, when they come up with parking for folks over 50, I'll respect that one and park there.



It's a private business.  If they own the parking, yes they can tell you which type of vehicles can park in which spot.  No different than a parking garage with signs that say 'compact cars only' or designated bus parking at ski resort even.  

Pretty sure a garage can tow oversized vehicles attempting to use compact car spots.  I'd imagine whole foods could do the same.  If I was a manager of the store, I'd take great pleasure in having asshole mom's Toureg towed.  

You can disagree with the principle behind the designated parking, but if they own the lot, they're free to manage their parking how they choose.


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## powpig2002 (Feb 18, 2011)

shoulda keyed her


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## ctenidae (Feb 18, 2011)

Devoting spaces gets tehm LEEDS points, too, so there's the whole mission statement thing.


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## bvibert (Feb 18, 2011)

This;



ctenidae said:


> Ignoring the signs is, in my book, an asshole maneuver, and constitutes rude behaviour which should be punished with public scorn and ridicule.



and this;



deadheadskier said:


> It's a private business.  If they own the parking, yes they can tell you which type of vehicles can park in which spot.  No different than a parking garage with signs that say 'compact cars only' or designated bus parking at ski resort even.
> 
> Pretty sure a garage can tow oversized vehicles attempting to use compact car spots.  I'd imagine whole foods could do the same.  If I was a manager of the store, I'd take great pleasure in having asshole mom's Toureg towed.
> 
> You can disagree with the principle behind the designated parking, but if they own the lot, they're free to manage their parking how they choose.



I agree with.


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## SkiDork (Feb 18, 2011)

I ask again:  Didn't that qualify for carpool?


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2011)

Private property owner can make the rules as they see fit - not that much different than the "Reserved for Employee of the Month" type signs IMHO.

Mom being lazy/arrogant, especially with kids of that age, and one would asume the ability to actually walk a few extra feet,  just another fine example of a parent passing on a chance to teach respect for the rules to their kid.  And if you don't teach that respect, and KEEP reinforcing it by example, well then what's the point in the first place/why honor any rule?(whether or not YOU agree with it or not)


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> I ask again:  Didn't that qualify for carpool?



carpool in the view of Whole Foods Management likely doesn't always equate to fuel efficient


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## Dr Skimeister (Feb 18, 2011)

I agree that the owner of the property can put up signs. I don't think though that legally they can have the offender towed unless there is proof of a "law" being broken (handicap spot, fire lane).

Just another instance of courtesy being ignored though.


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## WJenness (Feb 18, 2011)

Dr Skimeister said:


> I agree that the owner of the property can put up signs. I don't think though that legally they can have the offender towed unless there is proof of a "law" being broken (handicap spot, fire lane).
> 
> Just another instance of courtesy being ignored though.



Not so sure about this.

If I own a store, and the land the store is on...

And I decide that a certain space shouldn't be a space for whatever reason, and I post it as such "Do not park here" "reserved for Dr. Skimeister", whatever... If someone else parks there, why can't I tow them? It's my property, and they didn't comply with my rules for the property...

Granted, it's not the best way to earn loyal customers... but just because something may be a poor decision doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it.

-w


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## andyzee (Feb 18, 2011)

Dr Skimeister said:


> I agree that the owner of the property can put up signs. I don't think though that legally they can have the offender towed unless there is proof of a "law" being broken (handicap spot, fire lane).
> 
> Just another instance of courtesy being ignored though.




Interesting point, who is the property owner? These days very few stores actually own the property, they lease. The lease is for the building, not sure if it extends into the parking lot. That in a lot of cases will be shared by a number of businesses, not sure if that's the case here.


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## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> I ask again:  Didn't that qualify for carpool?



No.  Carpool means taking additional cars off the road by combining multiple potential drivers in one vehicle.  The kid wouldn't have been driving a car anyway so he doesn't qualify.

That doesn't mean kids can't qualify.  One adult driving a bunch of other people's kids to the soccer game because it eliminates multiple cars driving.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 18, 2011)

My only issue would be the fact that some people (due to occupation) need full-size trucks/SUV's, so why should they have to walk farther. Other than that I could care less.


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Interesting point, who is the property owner? These days very few stores actually own the property, they lease. The lease is for the building, not sure if it extends into the parking lot. That in a lot of cases will be shared by a number of businesses, not sure if that's the case here.



One has to asume that a certain number of parking spaces comes with the lease for the property, since just about every town that has zoning regulations, has a certain formula that says essentially for a building of X square feet that you need to have a minimum of Y parking spaces.


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2011)

campgottagopee said:


> My only issue would be the fact that some people (due to occupation) need full-size trucks/SUV's, so why should they have to walk farther. Other than that I could care less.



Then there's the whole health issue when in reality some people SHOULD park as far away from the front door as possible since THEY COULD USE THE EXCERCISE!  :lol:


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## dmc (Feb 18, 2011)

andyzee said:


> Interesting point, who is the property owner? These days very few stores actually own the property, they lease. The lease is for the building, not sure if it extends into the parking lot. That in a lot of cases will be shared by a number of businesses, not sure if that's the case here.



First they check your receipt... now they tell you where you can park... wtf?!?!?!?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2011)

campgottagopee said:


> My only issue would be the fact that some people (due to occupation) need full-size trucks/SUV's, so why should they have to walk farther. Other than that I could care less.



Why should people riding a bus to a ski area / sporting event, etc have to walk further if that's where their designated parking is?

What if the bus parking is actually closer and someone in a Prius decides, hey, I'd like to park up close and parks in the bus spot.

I guess I just subscribe to it being a private business and they can run it how they choose.  If I don't like the rules, no one is forcing me to do business there.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2011)

Actually, come to think if it, there's a similar, but not identical situation going on in Portland, ME right now, which answers the 'law' question as to whether or not Whole Foods could tow a vehicle deemed parked in the wrong spot.

Trader Joe's recently opened in a plaza with another business.  There is often not enough parking for the two businesses.  The two owners agreed to set aside certain spaces for the smaller business (think it's a climbing gym).   Signs are posted, parking for such and such only, violaters will be towed.  The owner of the small business is having Trader Joe's customers towed left and right for using 'his' parking spots.


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## WoodCore (Feb 18, 2011)

i wonder if the sign was made from recycled materials??


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## HD333 (Feb 18, 2011)

She sounds like self absorbed POS.  I picture her with her cellphone in hand, big sunglasses, sweatpants, the latest must have NothFace jacket that will never see the slopes, Uggs, and a to put it nicely not in the best physical shape.

Wait until that kid hits High School and her attitude backfires on her.

I feel bad for her husband...

Maybe I am just pissed off about being surronded by this crap and the fact that it will only be exagerrated this week at the mountian.  "why can't I park my Land Cruiser in the adaptive skier spots, I am only dropping off"  Yeah that is what the line of cars waiting to get into the "drop off zone" are doing too.

end rant


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## Hawkshot99 (Feb 18, 2011)

I have a reserved parking spot at my job.  If someone parks in it,there is nothing that security can do by law.  The only cars they can have towed or booted are ones parked in fire/handicapped spots.  This is a entirely private property.


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## andyzee (Feb 18, 2011)

My opinion and I'll leave it at this, you park in a handicap spot and you're not handicapped, I'll be happy to key your car. You park in any nonsense spots defined by a private business, I'll give you a thumbs up. Just my opinion.


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## drjeff (Feb 18, 2011)

HD333 said:


> She sounds like self absorbed POS.  I picture her with her cellphone in hand, big sunglasses, sweatpants, the latest must have NothFace jacket that will never see the slopes, Uggs, and a to put it nicely not in the best physical shape.
> 
> Wait until that kid hits High School and her attitude backfires on her.
> 
> ...



You forgot the requiste mega grande cup of Starbucks 1/2 cap 1/4 soy mocha mint-o-chino double foam expresso in your description there HD!  :lol:


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## wa-loaf (Feb 18, 2011)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I have a reserved parking spot at my job.  If someone parks in it,there is nothing that security can do by law.  The only cars they can have towed or booted are ones parked in fire/handicapped spots.  This is a entirely private property.



Sounds like they just won't do it. Not that they can't. If Jimminy owns the property they can have the car towed. Same as if someone parked in my driveway without my permission. I can call a tow company and have the car hauled off.


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## HD333 (Feb 18, 2011)

drjeff said:


> You forgot the requiste mega grande cup of Starbucks 1/2 cap 1/4 soy mocha mint-o-chino double foam expresso in your description there HD!  :lol:



My bad, and you know it was ordered while talking on the phone and she requested non fat milk but got the whipped cream on top.


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## Dr Skimeister (Feb 18, 2011)

WJenness said:


> Not so sure about this.
> 
> If I own a store, and the land the store is on...
> 
> ...



I'm not disputing ownership of the property/parking spot, but wondering if putting up a sign that's not under provision of a law entitles one to take possession of the rude parker's property. I'm sure people with more knowledge of the law than I have can comment better.


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## ctenidae (Feb 18, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> I ask again:  Didn't that qualify for carpool?



Two different sets of spaces. Interestingly, the efficient ones were originally against the building with carpool "across the street," but they recently swapped them.

I did ask a cashier about people parking in the spots, and she said they're constantly ignored. The store's not going to do anything about people who park there, so it's really a question of their moral high ground and getting the points for their LEEDS certification. 

Regardless of your stance on the existance of the spots, the fact is they are clearly labeled. So, the only reason to park there inappropriately is to either make a political statement, or out of a combination of laziness and disinterest- why should I care if I'm doing something wrong if there's no corporeal punishment? Parking in those spots contravene's Whole Foods' mission statement, which would imply that you disagree with their desire to be more environmentally responsible. And if you disagree with it to the point of aggressively subverting their desires, then why shop there in the first place?  You clearly don't care about being helathier, and so you're just paying extra for something you don't desire anyway. So now you're really an underdeveloped wasteful Neanderthal with more money than sense. Maybe public ridicule isn't sufficinet.


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## WakeboardMom (Feb 18, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> So I think that's what pisses me off about people who park land yachts in efficient spots- the attitude that the only reason to do the "right thing" is to avoid punishment for not doing it. On the philosophical scale, behavior to avoid punishment is the basest of motivations, with deciding what's right or wrong based on the possibility of punishment is only slightly higher. Ignoring the signs is, in my book, an asshole maneuver, and constitutes rude behaviour which should be punished with public scorn and ridicule.
> 
> Who's with me?
> 
> /rant off



I'm totally with you.  It sucks that people have to be rude.  I just don't get it; never have, never will.  

As for towing the car...it would give me great pleasure to see it towed, but as a business owner, sometimes you just gotta suck it up when customers feel like they don't have to follow the same rules as everyone else.


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## SkiDork (Feb 18, 2011)

Personally, I have a big yacht (Suburban) and I prefer parking farther away.  Less of a chance of getting hit by someone else's door opening.  Plus easier to find a spot.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> . So, the only reason to park there inappropriately is to either make a political statement, or out of a combination of laziness and disinterest- why should I care if I'm doing something wrong if there's no corporeal punishment? .



So which is it for you AndyZ?  :lol:


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## Glenn (Feb 18, 2011)

I was going to say in jest that I avoid this issue entirely by shopping at Wal-Mart. Then a remembered the summer of 09 when my wife had ACL surgery. And we couldn't get her an electric cart...because some inconsiderate fatties had taken all of them. Same problem, different girth.


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## bvibert (Feb 18, 2011)

Glenn said:


> I was going to say in jest that I avoid this issue entirely by shopping at Wal-Mart. Then a remembered the summer of 09 when my wife had ACL surgery. And we couldn't get her an electric cart...because some inconsiderate fatties had taken all of them. Same problem, different girth.



No problems or issues are solved by shopping at Wal-Mart. Ever.


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## SkiDork (Feb 18, 2011)

bvibert said:


> No problems or issues are solved by shopping at Wal-Mart. Ever.




Unless you're in need of a good laugh...


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## Dr Skimeister (Feb 18, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Unless you're in need of a good laugh...



http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/


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## mondeo (Feb 18, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> Two different sets of spaces. Interestingly, the efficient ones were originally against the building with carpool "across the street," but they recently swapped them.
> 
> I did ask a cashier about people parking in the spots, and she said they're constantly ignored. The store's not going to do anything about people who park there, so it's really a question of their moral high ground and getting the points for their LEEDS certification.
> 
> Regardless of your stance on the existance of the spots, the fact is they are clearly labeled. So, the only reason to park there inappropriately is to either make a political statement, or out of a combination of laziness and disinterest- why should I care if I'm doing something wrong if there's no corporeal punishment? Parking in those spots contravene's Whole Foods' mission statement, which would imply that you disagree with their desire to be more environmentally responsible. And if you disagree with it to the point of aggressively subverting their desires, then why shop there in the first place? You clearly don't care about being helathier, and so you're just paying extra for something you don't desire anyway. So now you're really an underdeveloped wasteful Neanderthal with more money than sense. Maybe public ridicule isn't sufficinet.


I park in the fuel efficient vehicle space in West Hartford then walk across the street to the McDonalds.

My problem with "fuel efficient vehicles" is they often aren't. I live 5 miles from work. My STI is more efficient than any of the Prii with 15 mile drives. Maybe if they cared about the environment they would by mass produced food, that's grown much more efficiently.


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## dmc (Feb 18, 2011)

Glenn said:


> I was going to say in jest that I avoid this issue entirely by shopping at Wal-Mart. Then a remembered the summer of 09 when my wife had ACL surgery. And we couldn't get her an electric cart...because some inconsiderate fatties had taken all of them. Same problem, different girth.



i was in Disney a few years ago...  Went to go see one of the shows and some fat ass was on an electric cart thingy...  Trying to get it "parked" up in the front..  She went forward and backwards to position...  And ran over some poor guys foot in the process... Unbelievable..  The poor dude had to go get medical attention..  the Country Bear Jamboree started late..

I hate to be like this..  But I don't think 75% of the people on those carts need to be on those carts...


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## ctenidae (Feb 18, 2011)

dmc said:


> I hate to be like this..  But I don't think 75% of the people on those carts need to be on those carts...



75% of the people on the carts wouldn't need to be on teh carts if they weren't on the carts.


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## Hawkshot99 (Feb 18, 2011)

SkiDork said:


> Unless you're in need of a good laugh...



If it is humor you want....http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=9798

But I do shop there.


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## HD333 (Feb 18, 2011)

dmc said:


> i was in Disney a few years ago...  Went to go see one of the shows and some fat ass was on an electric cart thingy...  Trying to get it "parked" up in the front..  She went forward and backwards to position...  And ran over some poor guys foot in the process... Unbelievable..  The poor dude had to go get medical attention..  the Country Bear Jamboree started late..
> 
> I hate to be like this..  But I don't think 75% of the people on those carts need to be on those carts...



A few years back we got beeped at by some slob on a cart at Disney.  Apparently we were not walking fast enough and she wanted to pass us.

That went over well.


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## SkiDork (Feb 18, 2011)

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where the people on those wheelchair rider things were chasing George (who was also riding one)...


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## dmc (Feb 18, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> 75% of the people on the carts wouldn't need to be on teh carts if they weren't on the carts.



right....  fat shtis...


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## andyzee (Feb 18, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> So which is it for you AndyZ?  :lol:



I would go with option 2, however need it edited a bit as I don't feel I would be doing anything wrong. I do however believe the business is wrong with showing preferential treatment.


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## campgottagopee (Feb 18, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> Why should people riding a bus to a ski area / sporting event, etc have to walk further if that's where their designated parking is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




On most bus trips you get dropped off right up front.

Pretty stupid for a little Prius to park in a bus spot, no??

Like I said earlier, really could care less.


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## andyzee (Feb 18, 2011)

OK, one last thing. If these businesses are really so concerned about the environment, maybe they should thing more about promoting bicycling. They could start by putting up bike racks and then by lobbying politicians and beginning drives to create more bike friendly roads (bike lanes). That I would stand behind, reserving parking spots in this manner is nothing more than an empty gesture trying to prove they care.


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## Geoff (Feb 18, 2011)

In Massholia, Pious owners get to drive in the car pool lane and have reserved spots in the Logan Airport.   Some eco-disaster SUV with a hybrid emblem that gets 18 mpg highway has the same status.

So... if I buy a 45+mpg VW TDI, I don't get to use the car pool lane or park in those uber-cool parking spots.   My carbon footprint is less than that eco-disaster Hybrid SUV and I don't have toxic waste batteries powering my car.  WTF!


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## powpig2002 (Feb 18, 2011)

legalskier. paging legalskier


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## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2011)

andyzee said:


> OK, one last thing. If these businesses are really so concerned about the environment, maybe they should thing more about promoting bicycling. They could start by putting up bike racks and then by lobbying politicians and beginning drives to create more bike friendly roads (bike lanes). That I would stand behind, reserving parking spots in this manner is nothing more than an empty gesture trying to prove they care.



That's a really good point.  If there had just been more bike racks available, the obnoxious skank in the original post would have just pedaled over on a tandem with her kid saving us this whole discussion.  Instead she was forced to park her SUV in the empty gesture spaces instead of walking a few extra feet and wasting even a second considering fuel efficiency..  Who can blame her?


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## gmcunni (Feb 18, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> Who's with me?
> 
> /rant off



should have left a note -


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## Terry (Feb 18, 2011)

drjeff said:


> Private property owner can make the rules as they see fit - not that much different than the "Reserved for Employee of the Month" type signs IMHO.
> 
> Mom being lazy/arrogant, especially with kids of that age, and one would asume the ability to actually walk a few extra feet,  just another fine example of a parent passing on a chance to teach respect for the rules to their kid.  And if you don't teach that respect, and KEEP reinforcing it by example, well then what's the point in the first place/why honor any rule?(whether or not YOU agree with it or not)


+1 I agree totally. What kind of lesson is she passing on to the kids?


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## darent (Feb 19, 2011)

Terry said:


> +1 I agree totally. What kind of lesson is she passing on to the kids?



that she is"special" and she doesn't have to follow any rules and if you grow up like mom you can be "special" too. this resort community is full of special people every summer. they can't read,they forge their own handicapp stickers or borrow them and then they give the authorities the " do you know who I am" talk when they get nabbed for their bad or inconsiderate behavior


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## billski (Feb 19, 2011)

darent said:


> that she is"special" and she doesn't have to follow any rules and if you grow up like mom you can be "special" too. this resort community is full of special people every summer. they can't read,they forge their own handicapp stickers or borrow them and then they give the authorities the " do you know who I am" talk when they get nabbed for their bad or inconsiderate behavior



How many ways can you act "selfish"?  The "me-first" "gimmie-gimme" generation.


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## billski (Feb 19, 2011)

Who will go in with me on a deck of these things?











I especially like the "check this box if the car is a piece of crap"


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## darent (Feb 19, 2011)

billski said:


> Who will go in with me on a deck of these things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



they would try to have you arrested if you started to hand those out, that sense of entitlement doesn't come with a sense of humor


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## Geoff (Feb 19, 2011)

billski said:


> Who will go in with me on a deck of these things?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It would be better to have a stack of the big orange windshield stickers they use when they boot your car that are impossible to peel off.


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## andyzee (Feb 19, 2011)




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## WakeboardMom (Feb 19, 2011)

Geoff said:


> It would be better to have a stack of the big orange windshield stickers they use when they boot your car that are impossible to peel off.



I'll try to stay on your good side.


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## ski_resort_observer (Feb 19, 2011)

Dr Skimeister said:


> I agree that the owner of the property can put up signs. I don't think though that legally they can have the offender towed unless there is proof of a "law" being broken (handicap spot, fire lane).
> 
> Just another instance of courtesy being ignored though.



I agree, a manager can have a chat with them about not parking there but that's about it. I suppose any town or city can have local ordinances that differ from that. In Burlington you get get a ticket for leaving your car running while your shopping, for example.


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