# newbie skis?



## automagp68 (Dec 4, 2008)

Ok so im new hear as im sure you can tell.


I did try to search a bit on this and i hope im in the right place. I have not been sking since i was 8 years old. Im 23 now. I do remember however racing my dad down the mountain at a young age and i did pick it up very easily when i was younger. I told myself i was going to find the time this year to go a lot. I have been to several local ski shops to look at skis and i seem to be told two things by the people working there.

dynastar that were 400$ with binding

Or Rosignol that were also $400 with binding. Both 154 my size cuz im short. I know its a large question but can any one offer benefits of either of them? Better quality or suggest something else? Im trying to stay in that price range cuz i still have to get boots also. 
Im just looking for a good all around mountain ski, and can someone explain what piste means. I have seen 40% on of ect and dont know what it means.

Thanks


----------



## Greg (Dec 4, 2008)

You might want to take a lesson and rent before committing to equipment purchases. Just to see if you like it still.

Welcome to AZ! Piste = trail or run.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 4, 2008)

I have thought of that as well, Which is more than likely what i am going to do. 
I am thinking that i will get used to it very quickly and should i enjoy it again will make a purchase. So im doing my homework a little early. 

I was just tying to get a sense of what people like. Also

If somethin says 40% off pieste where else are we riding besides trails?
Like open ranges non groomed i assume? So a ski for 100% piste would be for just groomed trails? Thanks for the help sorry for the dumb questions.


----------



## Greg (Dec 4, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> If somethin says 40% off pieste where else are we riding besides trails?
> Like open ranges non groomed i assume? So a ski for 100% piste would be for just groomed trails? Thanks for the help sorry for the dumb questions.



Off piste basically refers to anything other than a groomed trail. So the woods, powder, etc.


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 4, 2008)

I agree with Greg. Rent first to see if you take to the sport again. Getting into skiing is easier as an 8 year old than as a 23 year old. You'll probably have to start on really short skis (almost snowblades) just to learn the basics of carving. Then, as your skill level improves, demo higher end and newer skis so you can experience the differences out there. The regular rental skis are pretty low end so that's a good base on which to build.

If you're still interested in the sport and want to invest, buy boots first. Get the best fit possible. After you have the boots, buy the skis. I got my beginner pair of skis for about $200 (with bindings). I was done with them after one season though. Good luck and welcome to Alpinezone!


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 7, 2008)

Ok so we hit wachusette today, did the rental like greg recomended. Was a good time, only about killed myself twice. Just hung out on the beginner trails but was a lot of fun. 

It was very choppy and made getting back into it harder with coming to quick stops. 
So my question is this.

In general rental ski's are not of the highest quality right?, (they had "Head") i used a 150 but im only 5'6 so normally would of wanted a 154. if some of you use head dont be upset, i have no idea how good or bad they are! lol
Which leads me to the actual question.

Are they good?, Would the volki's i i mentioned before be better or worse? Just trying to make life easier. My local place has these 154 volki's last years model they were like 600$ now there 350 with binding. Thought it might be a good place to start. Thanks for any advice.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 7, 2008)

my 2 cents. note - i'm not an instructor, nor do i play one here.

a good pair of skis would likley help you advance quicker after a few lessons + days on the slopes. how much quicker really depends on you.  

key is to get the right type of ski for your skill level.  $350 isn't bad for a ski and binding package (you don't mention which model volkl) but if you shop around you can get a full season rental for 1/3 of that.  Would you get 3+ years out of these $350 skis?  my son has been skiing for 6 years now.  i rent for him every year, partially becauase he's growing and size would chagne every year but also because he's learning and his skill keeps improving.  The skis he used  3 years ago are not appropriate for his skill level today.

if you are athletic and a quick learner perhaps it is a good deal. you'll also find that there are different styles of skiing and different styles of skis to match.  

personally, i'd keep renting (get seasonal for convience and lower cost) and invest once you are hooked and find what type of skiing you enjoy.


----------



## Edd (Dec 7, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Ok so we hit wachusette today, did the rental like greg recomended. Was a good time, only about killed myself twice. Just hung out on the beginner trails but was a lot of fun.
> 
> It was very choppy and made getting back into it harder with coming to quick stops.
> So my question is this.
> ...



Most manufacturers will have excellent models somewhere in their product line, so asking if "Volkls" or "Head" are good skis is not a specific enough question.  There's alot to learn about the tremendous amount of skis out there.  If you ask people to suggest specific models you're going to get a hundred different responses.  For example, my response is to check out the Dynastar Legend 3800, from the sound of your skill level, or the Legend 4800. I suggest a ton of internet research if you have the patience.

I'd also suggest a lesson; a private one if you're willing to spend the money.  Good luck.


----------



## MR. evil (Dec 7, 2008)

You might want to also consider renting ski's and boots for the season. Most ski shops offer season rentals of new and used gear. My local shop rents used skis and boots for the entire season for $140 and new for $170. They also offer an option to purchase the gear at the end of the season if you like it. We are going to be doing the rental thing for one of my nephews that is still growing like a week. BTW, the gear my shop rents is not entry level stuff, its intermediate level gear. 

The shop is Colorado Ski Outlet in West Springfield Ma.. They also have some killer deals on left over gear.The last time I was there they has last seaons Dynastar Contact 8's with bindings for about $250.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for all the recomendations and comments.

I would consider renting for the year. I just dont want to rent ski's i wont enjoy. 

It seems like those of you that suggest renting for the year all ahve people who do so that are still growing. I am not however. So that makes me consider buying. I spend 170 to rent, then next year another 170 and now i coulda bought the set i was looking at. That is my only concern. And after renting for two years i dont ahve anything i could sell or trade in. That is why i was consdiering buying some entry level stuff. I found out the model of the volkis i was looking at. Tiger Motions 154, i think the guy said. I know they were originally 599 i think. Any thoughts on those?

Although i did very well saturday, and it was like riding a bike, i may take a lesson still.


Thanks


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 8, 2008)

sounds like you have your mind made up to buy instead of rent. that's cool. as i said i rent for my son but when i first got into skiing i went with the buy and replace model.  

if you want to compare costs though don't forget to factor in boots and poles. place near me rents "average" gear for adults for $110/year. that includes skis, boots, bindings and poles.  boots could cost an additional $200+ to the purchase, depending on the model.

as for the volkls. i have volkls and love them. i'd have no problem sticking with that brand. the tigers you mention look like they could last a few years. they have narrow waist so you might not like them in powder + crud but you might not find that on the east coast much on beginner and intermediate trails. 

 keep in mind weight when picking a size. your weight and type of skiing affect length as much, if not more, than your height.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for the advice again

Well, 154 is just above my top lip/under my nose. (170lbs and 5'7 Kinda stalky) Iittle shorter then some recomend, but i was told better to go smaller unless raceing. Im really not superset on buying, i dont wanna be a fool. I would certainly rent. Just all my local shops want 180 +200$ deposit. 

My biggest cocern is the head rentals i had yesterday, seemed very difficult to carve in. Although could def be due to my skill. I dunno will see, I like the volkis cuz there German made. Im german and am attached to stupid things like that.plus i just wanted a some new toys. Who knows, Ive heard of people "demo" stuff before. Not so sure how that works but ill look into it. Thanks again for the adivce.


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 8, 2008)

Good point about the renting v. buying conundrum. Looks like you have your heart set on buying so go ahead and buy. At this point, as long as you're not buying a total beginner package, you should be fine. I am not too familiar with the Volkl line though but you might want to ask the shop guys if that ski is rated for intermediates/advanced so that you don't outgrow them in a season. Your first set of skis usually serve as your baseline as you progress. In a season or two, depending on your progression and the type of skiing you do, you may want a fatter ski or stiffer one, etc.

Re: length - At the intermediate level, the rule of thumb is that the ski should reach your chin and, at the advanced to expert level, it should reach your nose to eyebrows. Actually a better gauge of the appropriate ski length is weight (i.e., if you're on the portlier side of 5'6" then you would crush a 154) so ask your shop guy for guidance. For reference, we're the same height (5' 6") and I weigh about 160 lbs. My shortest ski is 162 while my longest is a 174. The only time I skied 154s was in the first few days of my first ski season. Needless to say I outgrew them very quickly. Since you're investing, you may want to look at the longer end of the spectrum to squeeze a season or two out of them. 

I hit Wa on weekdays, let me know if you need company.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Thanks for the advice again
> 
> Well, 154 is just above my top lip/under my nose. (170lbs and 5'7 Kinda stalky) Iittle shorter then some recomend, but i was told better to go smaller unless raceing.



fwiw, i'm 5'7" and 185.  i ski 170 all mountain skis (77 waist).  if i was going with a narrower carver i'd be lookign for someing around 165 or so.  but that's me. others would feel differently.


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

gmcunni said:


> keep in mind weight when picking a size. your weight and type of skiing affect length as much, if not more, than your height.



I would argue weight is much more significant than height when selecting a ski length.



automagp68 said:


> Well, 154 is just above my top lip/under my nose. (170lbs and 5'7 Kinda stalky) Iittle shorter then some recomend, but i was told better to go smaller unless raceing.



Put a majority of your budget towards good boots and get fitted by a competent boot fitter. If you go to purchase boots and the salesperson/boot fitter doesn't shell size you, walk out. Otherwise you will undoubtedly end up in boots too big for you. It seems most people who get properly fitted end up in boots 1 - 2 sizes smaller than their street shoe size. Try to get into a solid upper intermediate level boot so you can get a few years out of it.

154 at 170 lbs. seems a tad short. I would think something in the higher 150s/low 160's would be better, but I'm sorta out of it as far as ski length goes lately, especially for beginners/lower intermediates.


----------



## o3jeff (Dec 8, 2008)

I would look for a ski a little longer(they say the ski doesn't know how tall you are, just you weight). When I got back into skiing 2 years ago and I went with an intermediate ski in a 163(I'm 5-8 180lbs) If you plan on getting out regularly you will progress quickly. This year I've picked up skis that are 167 and 169 and have no problems moving them around.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

yea 

See im like 170 but im that short stalking type, not really a gut just big shoulders, im only a 32 inch wasite. Its kinda odd, im like a football player on skis. 

So i just talked to local ski shop guy as well.

He recomended these three ski's as well as telling me a 154 is to small cuz of my wieght.

Recomending 161 at the smallest


Volkl AC 3

Nordica Overdrive

Head xeon 6.0

Any thoughts on those. 

Makes sense on the lenght i guess.
Thanks for all your comments btw!


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 8, 2008)

The AC3 from 2004-05 is a great ski. Go for it!


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Volkl AC 3



AC3 or AC30? Either way, that's a pretty burly ski for a lower intermediate. I skied an AC3 for a few years and it was a great ski. It would reward you if you stayed on it, but if you eased up and just tried to cruise, it was tiring to ski. Be ready to stay on the gas on that one. Perhaps the more forgiving AC20 is a better choice?

I can't comment on the other models you mentioned.


----------



## o3jeff (Dec 8, 2008)

Greg said:


> AC3 or AC30? Either way, that's a pretty burly ski for a lower intermediate. I skied an AC3 for a few years and it was a great ski. It would reward you if you stayed on it, but if you eased up and just tried to cruise, it was tiring to ski. Be ready to stay on the gas on that one. Perhaps the more forgiving AC20 is a better choice?
> 
> I can't comment on the other models you mentioned.



I skied the AC30 for a day last year and wouldn't recommend it for an intermediate. Just like Greg says you better be aggressive and like going fast.


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> I skied the AC30 for a day last year and wouldn't recommend it for an intermediate. Just like Greg says you better be aggressive and like going fast.



I should reiterate, the AC3 (and I assume the 30) is a great ski. Just a bit much to get back into the sport with.


----------



## o3jeff (Dec 8, 2008)

I actually started with a K2 5com which proved to be a great all around ski for me for the past 2 years. I think you still find them fairly cheap brand new with bindings.

Edit: If you live fairly close and you consider the K2 5com's let me know, will give you a deal on them. They have about 25 days on them(mostly half days), no core shots, but they could use a tune.


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 8, 2008)

The AC3 is a solid advanced ski. IF you intend to stay in the sport for the long haul, then this may be your one-ski quiver for years to come. Problem is that, at this point, you have to work on getting to the level that the AC3 requires. You may have to take in one or two more lessons and rent. Perhaps after one more lesson, you have the fundamentals down and have enough skill to drive an AC3. 

But, since the question was limited to "which of these three skis would you recommend," then my answer is the AC3.


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> The AC3 is a solid advanced ski. IF you intend to stay in the sport for the long haul, then this may be your one-ski quiver for years to come. Problem is that, at this point, you have to work on getting to the level that the AC3 requires. You may have to take in one or two more lessons and rent. Perhaps after one more lesson, you have the fundamentals down and have enough skill to drive an AC3.
> 
> But, since the question was limited to "which of these three skis would you recommend," then my answer is the AC3.



The AC3 was an upper intermediate to advanced level ski. To me, one really has to be able to at least link consistent parallel turns on an intermediate run to really be able to control that ski efficiently.

Now granted, it's not like automagp68 is going to click into AC3s and immediately be tossed down the hill. My concern would be that it might keep him from progressing due to it being a pretty demanding ski. A couple of lessons is not going to put him at the skill level that ski was designed for.

I don't know anything about any of those other skis so I really couldn't recommend one. I would look more towards something like an older Rossi Bandit B1 or something similar for a decent but more forgiving all mountain ski to start with.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Yea he recomended the AC3 not 30

I was very honest with him with my skill level. 

the rentals i was useing i just could not get to carve or hockey stop. He was telling me they are desiged not to. Hense them being a rental. That was my concern yesterday and my motivation to get something better.

I wonder why he would recomend an AC 3 from what you state. Im mostly going to cruise, not trying to go nuts lol!ac3 and ac3 are different right?

Cuz he said 3


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Yea he recomended the AC3 not 30
> 
> I was very honest with him with my skill level.
> 
> ...



The AC3 is the older version of the AC30. It's a bit narrower at the waist. Rental skis are not meant to carve or "hockey stop"? :blink: I would check out a few different shops...


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

I am just restateing what i was rold by him.

"Rental skis are not ment to carve or hockey stop" - Ski shop guy

Hockey stop, term that he used and one i have heard others use.

Did i state somethinw wrong?


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> I am just restateing what i was rold by him.
> 
> "Rental skis are not ment to carve or hockey stop" - Ski shop guy
> 
> ...



I gotcha. That's my point. You might want to look elsewhere.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

So would you say that the ski shop guy is wrong in his comment?



They were 150's and remember a minute ago we were talking about length


----------



## o3jeff (Dec 8, 2008)

Are they AC3 brand new? I think that ski was replaced about 2 years ago with the AC30.

I would definitely shop around, doesn't sound like he is looking after your best interests.

Where do you live, maybe we could recommended a shop.


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> So would you say that the ski shop guy is wrong in his comment?
> 
> 
> 
> They were 150's and remember a minute ago we were talking about length



Maybe not necessarily. But it sounds like he's talking out his ass a little bit. Sure, the rental ski is not meant to be a GS carver, but I'm sure it can be made to carve turns, i.e. get the ski up on edge. Just seemed like kind of an out there comment.

If you had trouble getting the ski to carve, nor hockey stop, i.e. skid, exactly how did it turn? It might very well be that since you haven't skied in 15 years, that you're just not used to how the modern ski technology differs from what you skied on as a kid. Laying any ski on edge will get it to carve somewhat.

Anyway, my point was to just shop around, and don't put all your faith into what one guy tells you (me included  )...


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

I live in Boston. 


It was the guy at the Wachusette Ski shop. Talked a bit on the phone to him.


I appreciate all the advice. He recomended those 3 models to me after i told him explicitly my skill level. I was talking to him in reference to their Demo program. He recomended i demo those 3


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Make sense greg

Thanks

Well here is what i learned

I could preform the motion to hockey stop yesterday very well, however when i did, it just came to a very very fast grinding halt, and did not skid very well. One time it was such a fast stop i lost my balance a bit. They did not skid well which was an issue. I could not get up to fast speeds because i feared should i try to hockey stop at that speed with out skidding at all i was in for an unexpected ride. That was my concern. It could obviously be my skill level, but what kinda started this thread was my curiousity to ask if a better ski may "skid better" maybe!! lol

Thanks for being so helpful. Hopefully ill get to meet some of you on the mountain to thank you with a beer at the lodge after the day is out!


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 8, 2008)

And so what are rental ski supposed to do then? Just go straight in a line? Yes, shop guy is not correct in his comment. If it has any sort of sidecut, it is designed with some form of carving in mind. Hockey stops are a technique involving digging your uphill edges in the snow. Theoretically, you can do hockey stops with two by fours strapped to your feet.

Length - 150 is too short.

Edit: I'm in Boston too. Headed to Wa after work tomorrow. PM if you need to ski.


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> I could preform the motion to hockey stop yesterday very well, however when i did, it just came to a very very fast grinding halt, and did not skid very well. One time it was such a fast stop i lost my balance a bit. They did not skid well which was an issue. I could not get up to fast speeds because i feared should i try to hockey stop at that speed with out skidding at all i was in for an unexpected ride. That was my concern. It could obviously be my skill level, but what kinda started this thread was my curiousity to ask if a better ski may "skid better" maybe!! lol



Makes total sense. Think about the straight skis you skied on as a kid. Hockey stopping with something like that will case the edge to pretty evenly skid on the snow. On today's shaped skis, the shovel (tip) and tail are wider and the waist is narrower relative to them. When you try to put it on edge, the shovel and tail are going to grab, thus bending the ski, making it to want to turn. That's the whole point of shaped skis. If you were able to get it to skid perpendicular to the fall line in a hockey stop motion, it would make sense that it would stop you abruptly. That's because the ski really wanted to turn and keep moving, but you were able to muscle it to a stop. That's just a sensation you're going to have to get used to with modern skis. If you have the chance to demo a few of those skis, go ahead and do it. It'll all make sense after a few more times out.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> And so what are rental ski supposed to do then? Just go straight in a line? Yes, shop guy is not correct in his comment. If it has any sort of sidecut, it is designed with some form of carving in mind. Hockey stops are a technique involving digging your uphill edges in the snow. Theoretically, you can do hockey stops with two by fours strapped to your feet.
> 
> Length - 150 is too short.
> 
> Edit: I'm in Boston too. Headed to Wa after work tomorrow. PM if you need to ski.



Well, he indicated rentals are more for learning how to snow plow and and snow plow turns and such. Not sure why i could not get them to skid. I mean i could it was just difficult to get them to actually skid and not dig in and and just stop. Im in night school in boston tomorow is my liast night of classes on tuesdays other wise i would definatley go!
Maybe next week. Tuesdays and thursdays are def good. after this week!


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Greg said:


> Makes total sense. Think about the straight skis you skied on as a kid. Hockey stopping with something like that will case the edge to pretty evenly skid on the snow. On today's shaped skis, the shovel (tip) and tail are wider and the waist is narrower relative to them. When you try to put it on edge, the shovel and tail are going to grab, thus bending the ski, making it to want to turn. That's the whole point of shaped skis. If you were able to get it to skid perpendicular to the fall line in a hockey stop motion, it would make sense that it would stop you abruptly. That's because the ski really wanted to turn and keep moving, but you were able to muscle it to a stop. That's just a sensation you're going to have to get used to with modern skis. If you have the chance to demo a few of those skis, go ahead and do it. It'll all make sense after a few more times out.



Thanks for explaing that, makes perfect sense. So what is the trick to a hockey stop with new ski technology lol! guess it comes with practice i suppose. So in general more advanced ski's will not make it easier to hocketstop? correct. Would make sense i suppose


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 8, 2008)

Cool. I work in one of the schools in BU. Too bad you're not one of my students. I'm sympathetic to skiers. =)


----------



## Greg (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Thanks for explaing that, makes perfect sense. So what is the trick to a hockey stop with new ski technology lol! guess it comes with practice i suppose. So in general more advanced ski's will not make it easier to hocketstop? correct. Would make sense i suppose



Maybe, maybe not. I would stop thinking about any limitations certain skis have. A truly expert skier could ski just about anything with ease and look good doing it. Of course people skid to a stop all the time, so it's really the skier, not the ski. You'll get it. You just need more time on snow. I would day rent at least one more time. Maybe try to get on something different than you skied last time.

A lot of ski talk here. Remember, proper fitting boots are the most important thing once you start to buy your own equipment.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Greg said:


> Maybe, maybe not. I would stop thinking about any limitations certain skis have. A truly expert skier could ski just about anything with ease and look good doing it. Of course people skid to a stop all the time, so it's really the skier, not the ski. You'll get it. You just need more time on snow. I would day rent at least one more time. Maybe try to get on something different than you skied last time.
> 
> A lot of ski talk here. Remember, proper fitting boots are the most important thing once you start to buy your own equipment.



Makes alot of sense Greg
I know Boots are a very big deal.

ok here is another comical issue of mine, as if this isnt bad enough.

I have very wide flat Feet.
The rental boots where surprisingly comfortble
im a 27.5 not that it means much.

I have heard that salomon(spelling?) has the widest boot

Someone mentioned shell fit?


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> Cool. I work in one of the schools in BU. Too bad you're not one of my students. I'm sympathetic to skiers. =)



LOL thats good to know, maybe i should transfer, i go nights at northeastern for a second degree.
After next week tho finals are up and im game!


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Wow
I swung by the boot guy today. OMG i have never felt better. Tryed a bunch of stuff and talked alot. I learned about the flex and most of all, the arche supports. I wear them in my dress shoes and it enver corssed my mind to use them in ski boots. WOW what a difference. I could feel it immediatley.No more crushed toes. I was wearing size 27.5 yesterday and today after a proper sizeing im actually a 26.5. What a difference. So i wound up likeing very much the Technica vento 80, its an 80% flex boot and felt great. The salomon was just to narrow for me. very pricey tho. $400. I guess thats not to bad but for me its alot. Any thoughts on those particular boot! Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Wow
> I swung by the boot guy today. OMG i have never felt better. Tryed a bunch of stuff and talked alot. I learned about the flex and most of all, the arche supports. I wear them in my dress shoes and it enver corssed my mind to use them in ski boots. WOW what a difference. I could feel it immediatley.No more crushed toes. I was wearing size 27.5 yesterday and today after a proper sizeing im actually a 26.5. What a difference. So i wound up likeing very much the Technica vento 80, its an 80% flex boot and felt great. The salomon was just to narrow for me. very pricey tho. $400. I guess thats not to bad but for me its alot. Any thoughts on those particular boot! Thanks for the advice!



Ventos are a good boot and will last you a long time.

As for the skis, any ski can "hockey stop" and any ski can be used to carve, even rentals.  Do not worry about that when choosing.  I do not know how much a demo would really help you out.  You are still getting back into the sport, and most likely not be able to notice too much of a difference between different skis.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Ventos are a good boot and will last you a long time.
> 
> As for the skis, any ski can "hockey stop" and any ski can be used to carve, even rentals.  Do not worry about that when choosing.  I do not know how much a demo would really help you out.  You are still getting back into the sport, and most likely not be able to notice too much of a difference between different skis.



Not that it means much with my etreamly limited expereince but i think afer talking all day to different people, i think it was more that the length was so incorrect for me 150 im 57 170lbs that it was difficult, possibly overflexing maybe as someone stated.

I also after some research have kind of fell in love with the AC20 from the reviews i have read. Not to much but will give me room to grow and somewaht forgiving i have heard. I might try to demo those this friday at wachusette.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> I also after some research have kind of fell in love with the AC20 from the reviews i have read. Not to much but will give me room to grow and somewaht forgiving i have heard. I might try to demo those this friday at wachusette.



ac20 does look like a good ski. you thinking about the 163?


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

Yea i was looking at the 163 tonight at my local shop with the technica vento 80 boot, i think i would be very happy with that combo. Gave me this slight itch to call in sick to work tomorow! lol


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Dec 8, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> I also after some research have kind of fell in love with the AC20 from the reviews i have read. Not to much but will give me room to grow and somewaht forgiving i have heard. I might try to demo those this friday at wachusette.



Awesome ski for what you are looking for.  I prefer the AC30, but I also weigh 250#.  I work in a on mountain shop that has a nice demo fleet.  90% of the people I have handed the AC20 to loved it.  The rest didn't say they didn't like it, just were looking for something different.  They bite into hard snow great, and ski very nicely on softer snow as well.  The AC series is one of my favorite.  (I need to try out the AC50's:lol


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 8, 2008)

I am slightly concerned tho. 

I was looking at some of those charts. now im wondering if the 163 is to short?

Should i do the 167 according the weight chart?

Like ive said ive 57 bout kinda stalking 165 170lbs

I dunno, i guess will see when i demo them on friday!
Any other comments or suggestions are great!
Thanks again


----------



## Greg (Dec 9, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Yea i was looking at the 163 tonight at my local shop with the technica vento 80 boot, i think i would be very happy with that combo. Gave me this slight itch to call in sick to work tomorow! lol



That actually sounds like a really good combo to me. I had a Vento 8 for a while. Nice boot. Easy to get in and out of. Didn't fit my foot well though, but if it feels good to you go for it. Pretty soft boot which will be good to help you progress. It should last you several seasons. I think the AC20 is an appropriate ski. Not bomber, but there's enough there for you to grow into. That too should also last you a few seasons.

As far as length, I think I would go with the 163. You could probably get away with the 170, but it's still a Volkl and inherently a somewhat demanding ski. In two or three seasons you'll probably want to upgrade to a higher end ski anyway and you can go a bit longer then. But if you have the chance to demo both lengths, do it.

Good luck. I think you've pinpointed a good setup that will let you progress, but stuff you won't get bored of too quickly.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 9, 2008)

Greg said:


> That actually sounds like a really good combo to me. I had a Vento 8 for a while. Nice boot. Easy to get in and out of. Didn't fit my foot well though, but if it feels good to you go for it. Pretty soft boot which will be good to help you progress. It should last you several seasons. I think the AC20 is an appropriate ski. Not bomber, but there's enough there for you to grow into. That too should also last you a few seasons.
> 
> As far as length, I think I would go with the 163. You could probably get away with the 170, but it's still a Volkl and inherently a somewhat demanding ski. In two or three seasons you'll probably want to upgrade to a higher end ski anyway and you can go a bit longer then. But if you have the chance to demo both lengths, do it.
> 
> Good luck. I think you've pinpointed a good setup that will let you progress, but stuff you won't get bored of too quickly.



Awsome, thanks for the comments. Im pretty excited mysefl. What did you mean when you said the vento was some what soft. Isnt an 80% flex boot relativley stiff? I tryed on a cheaper model in the salomon line up and it was only 60% and could tell right away, I also tryed a 90% salomon that was nice and stiff but didnt fit my foot well. I really liked the technica alot, leave it to me to pick out a $400 boot. Why couldnt i like a $250 Boot! lol That is def my style to always like the more expensive one! Typical me! so all in all im gonna wind up blowing roughly a $grand on this. Thats ok hopefully it will last me a while. I even got my dad all fired up about going again, and he hasnt been in 10 years as well, but previously skied for like 20 years. Should be fun! Cant want to hit the slopes. Thanks again for all the suggestions!


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 9, 2008)

Considering that plug boots get rated up to 150 or higher, an 80 flex boot is somewhat on the softer side (flex ratings vary from manufacturer to manufacturer). However, considering your purposes, you're good with that boot. Besides, I believe that some plastics used in softer boots gradually stiffen over time because of their exposure to the sun. If you get 3 or 4 seasons out of these boots (which I think you will), it would be worth it.


----------



## frozencorn (Dec 9, 2008)

I've got the AC 3 ('06 model) and I'm still in love on my third season.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 9, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> Considering that plug boots get rated up to 150 or higher, an 80 flex boot is somewhat on the softer side (flex ratings vary from manufacturer to manufacturer). However, considering your purposes, you're good with that boot. Besides, I believe that some plastics used in softer boots gradually stiffen over time because of their exposure to the sun. If you get 3 or 4 seasons out of these boots (which I think you will), it would be worth it.



Makes alot of sense, i didnt know they went up to 150, i thought it was only 100 
I found out after i made the post, thanks for the info though.
Cant wait to get out and try them!


----------



## madskier6 (Dec 13, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> What did you mean when you said the vento was some what soft. Isnt an 80% flex boot relativley stiff? I tryed on a cheaper model in the salomon line up and it was only 60% and could tell right away, I also tryed a 90% salomon that was nice and stiff but didnt fit my foot well.





automagp68 said:


> Makes alot of sense, i didnt know they went up to 150, i thought it was only 100
> I found out after i made the post, thanks for the info though.
> Cant wait to get out and try them!



As you've now discovered, flex ratings on boots are not expressed as percentages (%).  They are absolute numbers & as snowmonster pointed out, the relative stiffness based on the flex numbers vary from manufacturer to mfger.  

An 80 flex sounds about right for your level although I'm not an expert on the relative stiffness of Tecnica's flex ratings.  I do know that Tecnica tends to be a stiffer boot so an 80 Tecnica is probably stiffer than a Nordica 80 or Salomon 80.  Seems like you've chosen a good boot for your ability.  Now the key is how do they feel & fit on your foot?


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 14, 2008)

Ok time for an update. I still have not purchased boots or ski's. We went to Waterville valley today and I rented 160 this time. It was a slightly more humbling experience shall we say. Met up close and personal "with the snow" a few more times then I would have liked. Needless to say my rear hurts. It was a big difference obviously adding 10 inches to your ski. The conditions were kind of ruff, very hard pack, and the green runs at Waterville I would seriously consider calling blue. Anyway, about half way through the day, I switched down to a 154, which is a 4 inches more than last week, just to help myself out. The boots they gave me were terrible, absolutely killed my feet. All in all it was a tuff day but had some fun. Somewhat of a confidence killer, however, I finally was able to link a few more turns and ski parallel. It may not have been elegant looking but I was picking up the concept fairly easy. I seem to be able to link to the left very well, because I am right foot dominant and my right turns using my left foot on the outside seemed very weak. Going to hit wachusette again Friday and go for round three. If all goes well, I take myself to the ski store and get me some skis!! Any pointers let me know. Thanks again


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 15, 2008)

FWIW, ski length is measured in centimeters; ski width in millimeters. So, the difference between a 160 and 150 length ski is 10 cms or approximately 4 inches.

Sounds like you're making progress on the learning curve. Good. Keep it up. I'll reiterate my earlier suggestion that you should start out with getting the right ski boots. The skis can wait, particularly if you're still working your way up to a longer ski. While your skill level will only get better with practice, the size of your feet won't so it's a good idea to start with a boot. 

I don't want to muddy the waters, but you may be a good candidate for a bootfitter someday. The whole "I turn better to this side than the other" observation may mean that one leg is longer than the other (at least that's what my bootfitter told me). But, first thing's first, get a good boot.


----------



## bigbog (Dec 15, 2008)

*...adding $.01..*

automagp68....Welcome to the world of rental boots !...really fun eh'...:roll:   Waterville Valley, along with some others, can indeed get pretty firm, if not icy...  Harder snow isn't as forgiving as softer stuff...one really has to keep over that outside ski's edge!
The Salomon is average in forefoot/toebox width...Dalbellos have a wider forefoot/toebox section than a Salomon...and Technica makes a boot that's also wider..(forgot name!!..argghh!..used to be blue & white), just for interest...you should just at least _Try on_ a 25.5 and 26.x Dalbello or Technica(higher volume boot(blue & white)) that are in the level #8 ForwardFlexing range. 
____________________________________________________
***YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE FOLLOWING:*
A boot will stiffen up a little once outside...so don't worry if someone says #8s are too soft flexing..   As one gets a little better..one becomes a little more athletic in one's snow dancing...and will often feel the comfort when you drop down a shell size! 
_____________________________________________________
***YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE FOLLOWING:..YET EASIER SAID THAN FELT*
(26.0 and 26.5)--> is the same shell, just a thicker stock felt footbed in the liner, that one takes out anyways to put in your personal footbed.  A liner will give(pack out) some...over time anyways, so be wary of a boot that feels "_Really Cushy Comfortable_" in the shop...it'll become spacious and your feet'll be feeling the hard shell after a few days out there....  
_______________________________________
*It's a LOT easier for a bootfitter to expand the boot(liner and/or shell) and grind off pressure-points...  

rambling...I know..:-o


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Dec 15, 2008)

bigbog said:


> ...Technica(higher volume boot(blue & white)) that are in the level #8 ForwardFlexing range. ...



The boot he speaks of is the "Mega" series from Tecnica.  Also the Vento series comes in a HVL option for larger feet.


----------



## bigbog (Dec 15, 2008)

*..yes..*

thank you Hawk..


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 15, 2008)

Thanks for the info. 

Im pretty set on the vento 80. Just trying to find some extra $$$ to go get a pair.
My other problem is that not all mountains do demo's so if i dont get my ski's also at some point soon my boots will be useless because i would be forced to rent anyway, unless like wachusette has a demo program i can fool with. Will see what firday brings hopefully it will be cold enough so they can make some snow!
I cant believe it was 60 in boston today!


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 15, 2008)

Ok so call me crazy, but get this!

I found a guy on Craigslist.
2006 Volkl 5 stars in 161 for $150

Is it possible to go wrong here? Even if its not my dream ski, it will give me something to practice on right? Without spending $700 on AC 20's

Maybe next year i could do that, that way this year i can focus on good boots. What do you think?
Thanks for any input


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Dec 15, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Ok so call me crazy, but get this!
> 
> I found a guy on Craigslist.
> 2006 Volkl 5 stars in 161 for $150
> ...



That is a good price for a good ski(as long as its in good shape)

However that is a higher level ski than the AC 20.  It will be harder to ski for a lower level skier(not as forgiving....) Just something to consider.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 15, 2008)

Yea thats my only concern.
Im just thinking $$$ wise but if i cant stand on them i guess its not worth it right?

sigh i wish i didnt see them now i have to make a hard choice


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 15, 2008)

2 cents from a stranger... don't get the 5star. get the ac20 and enjoy them. the 5star is too much ski for a person just starting out.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

What do you think greg?


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 16, 2008)

Agree with gmcunni. If you thought the AC3 was stiff, the 5 Star is stiffer. AC3 is an all-mountain ski while the 5 Star is a carver. Checked Ebay?


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> Agree with gmcunni. If you thought the AC3 was stiff, the 5 Star is stiffer. AC3 is an all-mountain ski while the 5 Star is a carver. Checked Ebay?



sigh

im soo torn part of me says what the hell its 150$ i learn to use them, then part of me says im nuts


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 16, 2008)

If you think the price is right, then go for it. Look at the skis as a goal you're working towards. If you make good progress and really stick to the sport then you'll be riding those 5 Stars by the end of the season (hopefully). However, before you buy, take a good look at what you're getting. There may be a reason it's selling at such a low price (aside from the fact that it's about 4 years old). Look for coreshots, delams or edges that aren't straight. Make sure the binding works too. Cosmetic scratches you can live with but if the problem affects safety and performance, it's a no go. 

My first pair of skis was a beginner ski which I outgrew within the season. At the end of the season, I got another ski which was way beyond my skil level. The first few days on it were comical but I adjusted and it ended up bringing my skills up a notch.


----------



## Greg (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> What do you think greg?



I don't know much about the 5 Stars other than the fact that they are carvers so I would imagine they are much harder to reel in than the Unlimited line. Like the others said, probably tough to learn on.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

[/IMG]






[/IMG]

These are the pics he showed me,
The close up shows the damage. He said he bought them as demos. The chip on the top sheet does not effect how it rides is what he told. The guy said he was only getting rid of them because he wanted to go longer.


----------



## Greg (Dec 16, 2008)

Those chips are nothing. Nice looking ski, but hold on for the ride!


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

Lol! ride?

O man, maybe im better of spending 150 on old rental gear!!!

This is to complicated, i spend 150$ here and killmyself learning or i spend 150$ on old crap and still kill myself or i spend $1100 and have fun!!! all i need is money now!uke:


----------



## bigbog (Dec 16, 2008)

*...$.01..*

Sounds like you'll enjoy the Salomons....
The Volkls =  energetic skis...good length...  You'll have a fun time with them on the lower portion of mountains = easier trails..


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

Thats a good idea. 
I assume moving a tid bid forward from center will help me stay in a better position right?

I think im gonna get them tonight, and swing by after and get the vento 8 boots, and possibly a helmet from what you guys are telling me of these things.


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Thats a good idea.
> I assume moving a tid bid forward from center will help me stay in a better position right?
> 
> I think im gonna get them tonight, and swing by after and get the vento 8 boots, and possibly a helmet from what you guys are telling me of these things.



if you don't buy them i might.. i'd love a short pair of carving skis...


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

LOL ok ill make you a deal, ill go break my leg on them and then ill sell them to you,

Deal!

:idea:


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> I think im gonna get them tonight, and swing by after and get the vento 8 boots, and *possibly a helmet *from what you guys are telling me of these things.



yes, get the helmet too.


----------



## Grassi21 (Dec 16, 2008)

gmcunni said:


> yes, get the helmet too.



a helmet would be a smart move.


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 16, 2008)

Unless you're in show business, don't ever talk about breaking anything. Anyway, close the deal on the skis if you must. The damage on the topsheet is repairable. Use duct tape in a pinch. Inspect the edges and bases, however. That's important.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

ok so takeing you guys advice i did not buy them

to much ski although a tempting price

I found a guy online with last years AC20's the red ones

For $479 left over bran new

What you think of that?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLKL-Unlimited...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50


----------



## o3jeff (Dec 16, 2008)

Look around can find better prices, google is your friend

http://www.sierraskis.com/Volkl-Unlimited-AC20-System-17428.asp

That was one of the first links to come up.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

Done deal
Finally made the jump
Overnighted them will be here thursday!

Cant wait


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 16, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Done deal
> Finally made the jump
> Overnighted them will be here thursday!
> 
> Cant wait




what size did you go with?


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 16, 2008)

gmcunni said:


> what size did you go with?



did the 163's

with the vento 80 boot

so pumped!


----------



## gmcunni (Dec 16, 2008)

nice, enjoy!


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 17, 2008)

Congrats on your set-up! Now, ski the life out of them!


----------



## Greg (Dec 17, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> did the 163's
> 
> with the vento 80 boot
> 
> so pumped!



That should serve you well. Congrats and enjoy. Your timing is perfect. Dumps are on the way!


----------



## bigbog (Dec 17, 2008)

*...good setup!*

automagp68,
Hey..That's a good setup!...you'll have a much more fun time on the mountain with those, instead of the possibly getting to personally know the Patrollers and their stretcher... :lol:  The 5-Star is more of a rocket...


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks!


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 19, 2008)

Ok im concerned here

I got my new skis on the mail. all looked well.

Except

On the ski on the side, it says

voelkl.com

Not volkl.com

For the website.

Both URL's go to the volkl website just slightly different ones
Did i get screwed here?
What is voelkl vs volkl?

Some one please put an end to my panic!


----------



## o3jeff (Dec 19, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about it, I think they are both one in the same.

Did you get them from Sierra or Ebay? On the Epic forum Sierra is  reputable place.


----------



## snowmonster (Dec 19, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Ok im concerned here
> 
> I got my new skis on the mail. all looked well.
> 
> ...


Don't panic. It's the same thing -- Voelkl/Volkl. The "oe" is a way of Anglicizing the umlaut that the German alphabet has.


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 19, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> Don't panic. It's the same thing -- Voelkl/Volkl. The "oe" is a way of Anglicizing the umlaut that the German alphabet has.



This is why im glad we have a BU professor around, to explain these things!

LOL

Thanks for the help, i figured it was something like that.

Get to try them out sunday


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 22, 2008)

Hey Guys

Quick update

So got all my gear friday and hit the slopes. These skis are awsome!

I had a great time and felt more comfortable then before. I started to learn how to carve a bit and i cant even remember what a snow plow is? So life is good. We did some blues and challeged mysefl a bit. My only issue was that i fell one time pretty damn good and twisted the hell outa my right knee. Im not sure what i did but it hurt. Took me outa the loop for the day. Today i woke up and and it hurt a bit so i stuck my knee brace on and just ahve been taking it easy. It doenst hurt from walking or anything but if i croucth forward and twist to the right or left or hits just a bit. Im hopeing its just sore, it felt like a pull sensation. I hope it wasnt my ACL as ive heard lots of people discussing that. All in all, im happy and had a great day. Boots are good, skis are great. Thanks for all the suggestions on what to pick out!


----------



## Grassi21 (Dec 22, 2008)

good on you!  enjoy the new gear.


----------



## bigbog (Dec 27, 2008)

*....*

Yeah, 
  Sometimes it's better to take it easy, with new gear, and go at the fundamentals for a while, and get so you can ski the heck out of the easy trails...not only for your skills, but also for the body to get some exercise before tackling anything tricky...


----------



## automagp68 (Dec 29, 2008)

Its been good. Thanks for all the adivce. Ive been able to have some fun latley but not as much as id like. I finally got to "carve" for  a second in ME this past weekend. What a cool feeling, you could really tell you were like really flying it was kind of neat. Will just keep practiceing and hopefully get better. Thanks though "big" you saved me from killing myself on the 5 stars lol


----------



## Greg (Dec 29, 2008)

automagp68 said:


> Its been good. Thanks for all the adivce. Ive been able to have some fun latley but not as much as id like. I finally got to "carve" for  a second in ME this past weekend. What a cool feeling, you could really tell you were like really flying it was kind of neat. Will just keep practiceing and hopefully get better. Thanks though "big" you saved me from killing myself on the 5 stars lol



Thanks for the update and good for you. It takes time.....as in years. Just keep at it and it will all come together eventually. I'm still never happy with my skiing.


----------



## automagp68 (Jan 4, 2009)

AWSOME~!!


OK so here is an update. Been sking alot latley. Finally got it. Busted my butt Many times but i did my First black the other day. WOWOWO It ws awsome. I totally love my skis. I have been doing Mount Sunapee and just local wachusette when need be. Having a great time and making big progress. Thought id let you guys know all the progress, thanks again for all the help


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Jan 4, 2009)

Glad to hear you are haveing fun.


----------

