# Hunter Snowmaking?



## andrec10 (Nov 13, 2013)

From the looks of the webcams, does not look like they are in their Electric block yet. DMC, does it start on the 15th? God I hope not Dec 1st like last year.


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## dmc (Nov 13, 2013)

I don't know that...  I do know that they wanted to lay down what they could before it gets warm..
So maybe it's all about just getting mainline down with some base..

In NYC but looking at webcam still snowmaking..


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## 180 (Nov 13, 2013)

Lame effort at best, but with rain and warm coming i can see why no rush. But my own-selfishness would want to ski soft bumps on saturday


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## andrec10 (Nov 13, 2013)

180 said:


> Lame effort at best, but with rain and warm coming i can see why no rush. But my own-selfishness would want to ski soft bumps on saturday



I am trying to be nice and turn over a new leaf, but you said it best with LAME!


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## dmc (Nov 13, 2013)

If they had a longer window they'll be crushing it...


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## JimG. (Nov 13, 2013)

180 said:


> Lame effort at best, but with rain and warm coming i can see why no rush. But my own-selfishness would want to ski soft bumps on saturday



You almost sound as negative as I did last season. Perhaps they were shamed into turning on the guns with so many other areas opening up.


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## dmc (Nov 13, 2013)

i think they knew they had enough of a window to get a head start on mainline and took it...


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## mriceyman (Nov 13, 2013)

Ig


Sent from my iPhone


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## mriceyman (Nov 13, 2013)

Sent from my iPhone


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## RichT (Nov 14, 2013)

I think by Wednesday they will turn on the mighty powder!!!!!


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## dmc (Nov 14, 2013)

Pretty warm here today... 40's and sunny..  
Looks like some good starter base for Mid and Hellgate..


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## andrec10 (Nov 16, 2013)

So I found out today that they had a pipe break and problems with 2 pumps, hence the snowmaking "issue". Some excuse is given, but how about fully testing the system beforehand! There is a LOT of snow on Hellgate, but that is all. The infrastructure of the place is not being kept up from what I can understand.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 16, 2013)

That's one ugly looking mountain.


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## Cornhead (Nov 17, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> That's one ugly looking mountain.



View attachment 9533
Aesthetically pleasing Hunter ain't. It looks more like a mining operation than a ski hill. I guess all ski areas can be considered scars on nature's beauty, but Hunter takes the cake.


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## andrec10 (Nov 17, 2013)

It may not be pretty, but it sure skis better than it looks!


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## skiadikt (Nov 17, 2013)

surprised that the once mighty snowmaking capitol of the world didn't get it done for this weekend. jiminy peak open?


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## ScottySkis (Nov 17, 2013)

skiadikt said:


> surprised that the once mighty snowmaking capitol of the world didn't get it done for this weekend. jiminy peak open?



Hunter is a corporation first now. Losing money is not part of that plan.


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## dmc (Nov 17, 2013)

no comment


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## 180 (Nov 17, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> So I found out today that they had a pipe break and problems with 2 pumps, hence the snowmaking "issue". Some excuse is given, but how about fully testing the system beforehand! There is a LOT of snow on Hellgate, but that is all. The infrastructure of the place is not being kept up from what I can understand.



Why I am not surprised.  The most important spot on the mountain, Hellgat Broadway/ 7th has the oldest fan guns.


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## dmc (Nov 17, 2013)

Nothing shocks me...


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 17, 2013)

skiadikt said:


> surprised that the once mighty snowmaking capitol of the world didn't get it done for this weekend. jiminy peak open?



Jiminy is open. 
Last year they opened 4 or 5 weeks earlier than Hunter as well.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## catskillman (Nov 17, 2013)

They obviously have issues - there is a trench dug across the bottom of the mountain - B lift past the stairs -  was not there last week..............


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## andrec10 (Nov 17, 2013)

catskillman said:


> They obviously have issues - there is a trench dug across the bottom of the mountain - B lift past the stairs -  was not there last week..............



They have issues all right. First thing that should be done is FIRE RUSS!!! But I digress.....


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## skiadikt (Nov 17, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Hunter is a corporation first now. Losing money is not part of that plan.



when orville & izzy were calling the shots, the hunter i remember seemed to make tons of money. our joke when it snowed in the city, was that it was blowback from hunter snowmaking ...


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## ScottySkis (Nov 17, 2013)

skiadikt said:


> when orville & izzy were calling the shots, the hunter i remember seemed to make tons of money. our joke when it snowed in the city, was that it was blowback from hunter snowmaking ...



I remember that Hunter machine powder was very good once apon a time many snow years ago. I remember that was indeed a different era but it was nice.


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## dmc (Nov 17, 2013)

Sure was...


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2013)

Looks like Hunter's the new Killington.  that's a shame


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## dmc (Nov 17, 2013)

Still hoping for opening next weekend...


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## steamboat1 (Nov 17, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Looks like Hunter's the new Killington.  that's a shame


What's that make Wildcat?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> What's that make Wildcat?



It makes Wildcat; Wildcat.  

I was referring to long time Hunter skiers frequently venting their frustration with the way the mountain is being run today compared to what it used to be like in the past. There's been a lot of frustration expressed in recent years, even by folks who historically have defended how the mountain is run.

I hope they get "their" Hunter back, just like K skiers have gotten "their" mountain back under the leadership of the current GM.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 17, 2013)

In my eyes K never lost anything. They've always been one of the first to open & if not last to close pretty damn close.

Hunter has a lot more going for it than just skiing. I'd venture to say Hunter has more revenue in the summer & fall then during their winter season.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 18, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Hunter has a lot more going for it than just skiing. I'd venture to say Hunter has more revenue in the summer & fall then during their winter season.



I not Hunter regular anymore, but I don't think the mountain biking and zip lines pull in more money then winter sports.

They used to care a lot about making ridiculous amounts of snow and it brought lots of us to love Hunter along with great steep trails. Since gas went up in 2000 I don't think anyone just makes snow without thinking about gas costs.


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

whatever...  keep piling on...  taste the blood...


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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2013)

Snowmaking operations for the vast majority of resorts have changed, and in many cases changed for the better especially over the last decade or so.

Resorts just have so much more data now about how and when the MOST EFFICIENT time to make snow is, and for many resorts nowadays they end up by the end of the season making a greater volume of snow, in less time than ever before.  To just sit back and "arm chair quarterback" a situation based on opinion and the vast majority of time never having pulled a snowmaking hose or cleared the ice off a nozzle, or been faced with the real budgetary numbers and the choices they entale.  Hunter has some of the best snowmakers and history in the business.

As for pipes breaking, even main feeder pipes, I'm sure if you talk to anyone in the mountain ops business they'll tell you that that's just a fact of snowmaking and something that can happen at anytime in the most maintained of systems. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

It's 53 degrees and sunny out and only 8am.....


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

60 at the base at 9:30am...


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

68 degrees at the base at noon...


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## x10003q (Nov 18, 2013)

Broadway is not looking so good at 3:45PM.


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

Hellgate looks ok....   Wondering whats up with the new live cam?


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## andrec10 (Nov 18, 2013)

Hunter is currently being run with this new age management style, where all they know how to do is cut costs and only spend what is absolutely necessary. They need to take a lesson from the manager of Killington and come up with new ways to invigorate the business, not just cut costs. It takes money to make money!


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## catskillman (Nov 18, 2013)

Hunter has a lot more going for it than just skiing. I'd venture to say Hunter has more revenue in the summer & fall then during their winter season.[/QUOTE]

Their wedding business is huge.  They make more money on the free octoberfests than they do on the summer festivals that they charge for.  (This is in part as they now only give passholders free admission for 1 day.  We were there in force buying multiple overpriced drinks and bringing many many non skiing friends also........  This is one of their craziest decisions... It cost them nothing to let passholders into these festivals.........)

Ziplining is always sold out, but they on get X on it as it is a leased operation.  Not sure what they bring in on that.  They do not have mountain biking anymore.

They get $10 for a ride on the skyride, and it is always busy when there is something going on - they now give passholders only 1 ride on this also, so then again........lost $ from others - plus they now have a band up there for festivals & a bar.  More lost $$$$$$

see a pattern here?????


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

No comment


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## andrec10 (Nov 18, 2013)

dmc said:


> No comment



DMC, 

I love Hunter as much as you do. Been skiing there since 1972...worked there in the early 80's. I know smart money management, and then I see what Hunter is doing. Very sad to see. Will always have a season pass at Hunter no matter what until I move to Vermont.


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## dmc (Nov 18, 2013)

I agree with much of it.. 

This year people are more pissed at a level I've never seen.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

34 degrees, windy and flurrying near the base..
Looking at the CAM - it would appear the snow guns will be silent again today.
Maybe tonight... and tomorrow night..


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

So opening this weekend is a fading glimmer........I might go to Killington on Sunday if they don't open.


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## JimG. (Nov 19, 2013)

Killington was very good this past weekend.

Was hoping Hunter would open, but I guess I'll wind up at Jiminy for a day if not.


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Killington was very good this past weekend.
> 
> Was hoping Hunter would open, but I guess I'll wind up at Jiminy for a day if not.



The only reason I would go to K is my son skis there.


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## 4aprice (Nov 19, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> The only reason I would go to K is my son skis there.



Open house at CSC this weekend.  Don't know if that will affect his schedule or not.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## catskillman (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> I agree with much of it..
> 
> This year people are more pissed at a level I've never seen.



you are so right about that.  And not just the folks that always have something to say.  Not a good thing to have dissatisfied customers if they want to sell the place.  Even the employees are making more snide comments this year.......


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

I say Powder Corp (who owns Killington) Should buy it!


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> I say Powder Corp (who owns Killington) Should buy it!



Maybe with Orville gone and keeping it in the family..
At his memorial service the family was very proud of keeping the mountain under their control..

Miss those 2 old coots....


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> Maybe with Orville gone and keeping it in the family..
> At his memorial service the family was very proud of keeping the mountain under their control..
> 
> Miss those 2 old coots....



Those guys knew how to run a mountain!

I would not be proud if I was part of the family right now!


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## catskillman (Nov 19, 2013)

This just in from Mr. Eyebrows on his blogspot -

Hi All,
Even tho the snow guns could be on 24/7 most of this week they are not. So why not? I'll tell you why. Hunter did not opt to purchase and pay for its block of power from Central Hudson until Dec 1 this year because for the past 4 to 5 years it did so on Nov 15 but wasn't able to use it until Dec due to the weather. The snow they did make last week was just to test the system and it did blow a pipe just above the bottom of the Flyer which is now fixed. The snowmakers have been advised that they may blow again this coming Sat night after Hunter managed to "borrow" some power.
It has been very cold and windy with occasional flurries last night and today with clouds, a high of only 33 and bitter wind chills.
In other news:

The main parking lot at the mountain has received a much needed paving, although a patch-work job, and has added a premium pay parking area adjacent to the High Peaks lot on the west end of the base lodge where the handicap parking used to be.
The tow rope at the tubing park has been replaced by a "Magic Carpet" lift.
More fill was added to the approach at the west side quad lift and the area was re-graded - so I was told.
Ski ya soon I hope,
Jon


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## RichT (Nov 19, 2013)

Hey catskillman.........artistic license??? This is the COMPLETE and accurate post from Johnny Eyebrows.  Hi All,Even tho the snow guns could be on 24/7 most of this week  they are not. So why not? I'll tell you why. The humidity is too high and the water is still too warm plus there is a small temperature inversion where it is warmer at the summit than at the base.The snow they did make last week was because the climate and  predictions justified it.  An earlier test of the system did blow a small feeder pipe just above the bottom of the Flyer which is now fixed.  The snowmakers have been advised that they may blow again possibly tonight but this coming Sat night  for sure. Hunter buys its power via a multi year contract on a pay as you go basis from a supplier other than Central Hudson but uses CH as its transporter.
It has been very cold and windy with occasional flurries  last night and today with clouds, a high of only 33 and bitter  wind chills.
In other news:
Ski ya soon I hope,
Jon


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## spring_mountain_high (Nov 19, 2013)

<<grabs popcorn>>


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

In fairness it may've been changed by Jonny Eyebrows...

But carry on...


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## catskillman (Nov 19, 2013)

RichT said:


> Hey catskillman.........artistic license??? This is the COMPLETE and accurate post from Johnny Eyebrows.
> 
> *Absolutly not!!!!!!!!  See below - I did delete his email address however.
> 
> ...


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## catskillman (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> In fairness it may've been changed by Jonny Eyebrows...
> 
> But carry on...



Thank you.  It was,  he sent out a corrected email. 

This tells you this site is monitored by mountain associates, if you ever doubted it........


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## RichT (Nov 19, 2013)

Doug, in all fairness everyone should know ALL of the truth. That's all I'm saying. I love the place and we don't need anybody to make Hunter look bad, because of an "agenda"


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

RichT said:


> Doug, in all fairness everyone should know ALL of the truth. That's all I'm saying. I love the place and we don't need anybody to make Hunter look bad, because of an "agenda"



I love Hunter as much as the rest of you and have no "Agenda". There just seems to be a lot of poor decisions being made all in the sake of saving money and NOT expanding the business!


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## RichT (Nov 19, 2013)

Yep catskillman..........I apologize. BUT I still can't stand all of this negative talk from everybody. It's counterproductive I think.


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## RichT (Nov 19, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> I love Hunter as much as the rest of you and have no "Agenda". There just seems to be a lot of poor decisions being made all in the sake of saving money and NOT expanding the business!


 You probably have, but have you ever contacted them with your concerns? Did they contact you?


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

RichT said:


> Doug, in all fairness everyone should know ALL of the truth. That's all I'm saying. I love the place and we don't need anybody to make Hunter look bad, because of an "agenda"



Agree...


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

The negative energy is actually affecting me...  i feel it from all sides this year...

I'm questioning a lot about the way i used to feel about Hunter these days..


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## RichT (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> The negative energy is actually affecting me...  i feel it from all sides this year...
> 
> I'm questioning a lot about the way i used to feel about Hunter these days..


 I'm a "second homeowner" and don't really know a lot of people closely up there (I know you only b/c of you being the drummer for Third Rail). So I don't get the inside scoop except from social media. And from my closer friends that have kids on the race teams, which my family has no part of. From my perspective I don't really see any "bad" stuff but I do get earfuls about things that wouldn't concern the average once a weekend patron.


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

Snowguns are on on Midstation and working their way down Kennedy.....Maybe?


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## ScottySkis (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> The negative energy is actually affecting me...  i feel it from all sides this year...
> 
> I'm questioning a lot about the way i used to feel about Hunter these days..



Sorry about that it not a fun place to be.


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Sorry about that it not a fun place to be.



now where did i say that??? Stop projecting...

I love skiing Hunter - It's a fu**ing blast... I have a ton of fun there... Cranking down The Cliff - sweeping past mid station at top speed dropping down onto Races Edge then riding the sides all the way down...  Flying off the top of LowerK27 the day it opens and catching more air than my patroler friends would care to see...  Crushing the soft sunny snow on a spring day on Claires..   Or cruising the East Side on an empty spring afternoon...  riding the F chair over and over... 

What you don't understand is many of us have a deeper connection to a mountain.   I've been a season pass holder for like 20 years now..  I first started coming here in 1981..  I got my first ski house in 1989.  i worked in the parking lot..  I've seen people i know die on the hill..  I have a successful band here - I've seen the crowd go from people dancing and getting crazy go to those same people dancing and going crazy with their kids now... 
I own a house here and have and my girl has a growing business..  We're all connected at a level beyond a ski chat site..  The mountain is intertwined with the town...  their success is our success...    We all came here for skiing and riding..  And there's some that feel that that whole vibe is being pushed aside..    


So dude.. stop putting words in my mouth.. not cool...


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> now where did i say that??? Stop projecting...
> 
> I love skiing Hunter - It's a fu**ing blast... I have a ton of fun there... Cranking down The Cliff - sweeping past mid station at top speed dropping down onto Races Edge then riding the sides all the way down...  Flying off the top of LowerK27 the day it opens and catching more air than my patroler friends would care to see...  Crushing the soft sunny snow on a spring day on Claires..   Or cruising the East Side on an empty spring afternoon...  riding the F chair over and over...
> 
> ...



I feel the same way you do DMC! Hell, I grew up skiing there and worked there as an instructor in the 80's and hit the party scene hard then as well. My Son grew up skiing/racing there, hanging out with friends on weekends. I just want the place to prosper!


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## RichT (Nov 19, 2013)

I love this place as much as DMC!! Plan on retiring up there! Wish I could move now. Sure the crowds make for a tuff day, but without them the place wouldn't be. So the more negativity that is spewed out the more it hurts ALL of us. If anyone has a bitch tell the correct people (remember if it wasn't for us they wouldn't be!) What do you think they are doing all this so called "bad" stuff, just to piss off their patrons?


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

This whole demographic feels the way we do...


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## ScottySkis (Nov 19, 2013)

dmc said:


> now where did i say that??? Stop projecting...
> 
> I love skiing Hunter - It's a fu**ing blast... I have a ton of fun there... Cranking down The Cliff - sweeping past mid station at top speed dropping down onto Races Edge then riding the sides all the way down...  Flying off the top of LowerK27 the day it opens and catching more air than my patroler friends would care to see...  Crushing the soft sunny snow on a spring day on Claires..   Or cruising the East Side on an empty spring afternoon...  riding the F chair over and over...
> 
> ...



I didn't mean it like that.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Is this a 2 year old Killington thread?


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## andrec10 (Nov 19, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Is this a 2 year old Killington thread?



Now thats funny!


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## dmc (Nov 19, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Is this a 2 year old Killington thread?



The way Killington has turned around.. Then I sure hope so!  
Half of Hunter is a KMart now..


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## steamboat1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Have fun at Hunters Oktoberfest for many years running. My friend owns one of the A-frames just outside the parking lot. Tell him all the time nice house but wrong mountain. Haven't skied there in several years even though we do get together at the house for a winter weekend every year.


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## RichT (Nov 20, 2013)

Check the webcams, they're dumping! Also got a new "live" cam shot from the learning center over the main lodge to the mtn.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2013)

8am 11/20


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## ScottySkis (Nov 20, 2013)

Looking great, happy to see those powder guns going.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 20, 2013)

dmc said:


> now where did i say that??? Stop projecting...
> 
> I love skiing Hunter - It's a fu**ing blast... I have a ton of fun there... Cranking down The Cliff - sweeping past mid station at top speed dropping down onto Races Edge then riding the sides all the way down...  Flying off the top of LowerK27 the day it opens and catching more air than my patroler friends would care to see...  Crushing the soft sunny snow on a spring day on Claires..   Or cruising the East Side on an empty spring afternoon...  riding the F chair over and over...
> 
> ...


 I think he meant mentally...Not that Hunter is not a fun place to be.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2013)

Mentally... huh...


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## andrec10 (Nov 20, 2013)

dmc said:


> Mentally... huh...



its Scotty.....nuff said!


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## JimG. (Nov 20, 2013)

Glad to see those guns going, still hoping to use my season pass at Hunter this weekend.

I was the one going off about them not trying to open for Thanksgiving last season. Almost bought the 3 for 1 pass at Belleayre/Whiteface/Gore but thought about it and decided to give Hunter another season.

Hearing that they put off their electric block until 12/1 did not surprise me, but seeing alot of other hills trying to open and Hunter just waiting until December would have really bothered me. They made a wise decision to start blowing snow now.

Seems there is ALOT more anxiety about the management situation this season than last.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2013)

According to Jonny Eyebrows Blog....  Which was "changed" from talk about the "blocks"  that he originally spoke of- to this:



> Hunter buys its power via a multi year contract on a pay as you go basis from a supplier other than Central Hudson but uses CH as its transporter.



http://hunterskiscene.blogspot.com/


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 20, 2013)

You guys ever think Mr eyebrows had it wrong the first time and was corrected.Looks like that to me.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> You guys ever think Mr eyebrows had it wrong the first time and was corrected.Looks like that to me.



From what I hear he was corrected a couple times... haha..


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## ScottySkis (Nov 20, 2013)

ALLSKIING said:


> I think he meant mentally...Not that Hunter is not a fun place to be.



That is exactly what I meant.


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2013)

I glad they "corrected" the rumor..

Since this "block" stuff is all that people talk about - I'm kinda shocked they never reached out to squash it years ago...  crazy...


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## dmc (Nov 20, 2013)

Guns are off now... 45 degrees out at my house


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## skiadikt (Nov 20, 2013)

dmc said:


> Guns are off now... 45 degrees out at my house



wow surprised it's that warm on mtn. here in putnam county we have 36. inversion??

from my ski house days (80's) at hunter, it "seemed" the usual opening was t-giving. would usually ski black friday which would be a ski patrol benefit. in a good year they would open the weekend before. don't remember them opening much earlier than that. not up on the recent history but if they open this weekend or even t-giving, that would seem to be on par. however would find it galling that a place like jiminy opened last weekend and if they wait until december then off with their heads ...


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## steamboat1 (Nov 20, 2013)

skiadikt said:


> wow surprised it's that warm on mtn. here in putnam county we have 36. inversion??
> 
> from my ski house days (80's) at hunter, it "seemed" the usual opening was t-giving. would usually ski black friday which would be a ski patrol benefit. in a good year they would open the weekend before. don't remember them opening much earlier than that. not up on the recent history but if they open this weekend or even t-giving, that would seem to be on par. however would find it galling that a place like jiminy opened last weekend and if they wait until december then off with their heads ...



Remember Thanksgiving is at least a week later than usual this year.


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2013)

Looking at the forecast for later this week and all of next, Hunter really got caught with its' pants down regarding snowmaking and electric purchases. 

They are going to look really bad if they're not open for Thanksgiving.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 21, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Looking at the forecast for later this week and all of next, Hunter really got caught with its' pants down regarding snowmaking and electric purchases.
> 
> They are going to look really bad if they're not open for Thanksgiving.


I hope they do I like to ski Hunter on T day.


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Looking at the forecast for later this week and all of next, Hunter really got caught with its' pants down regarding snowmaking and electric purchases.
> 
> They are going to look really bad if they're not open for Thanksgiving.



My big question is? Why do NO OTHER ski areas run into this problem with electricity? I mean hell, Thunder Ridge was freakin open!


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Looking at the forecast for later this week and all of next, Hunter really got caught with its' pants down regarding snowmaking and electric purchases.
> 
> They are going to look really bad if they're not open for Thanksgiving.



From the Jonny Eyebrows - updated blog..


> Hunter buys its power via a multi year contract on a pay as you go basis from a supplier other than Central Hudson but uses CH as its transporter.


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## drjeff (Nov 21, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> My big question is? Why do NO OTHER ski areas run into this problem with electricity? I mean hell, Thunder Ridge was freakin open!




It's all based on their electric suppliers and the decision that the ski area makes about when the "roughly" want to open.

I'm guessing that when the ski areas that utilize a LARGE amount of electricity for their snowmaking operations discuss with the power companies often MONTHS in advance about when they want to alter their purchasing amounts that they've got a target opening date in mind based on a number of things from historical weather history to on hill cutsomer volume during such and such a time, etc.

Once Hunter gets into its preferred rate electricity situation and some cold weather is around and quickly they get a bunch of terrain open with the massive firepower they have, this will be a moot point.  Right now though, is this generally colder than normal November we've been having, it's a frustrating discussion for sure


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## RichT (Nov 21, 2013)

If you were paying for it would you have made snow last week? I my opinion they wasted the $ last week! NOW is the time to blast, and they are (as weather permits) like last night. I think starting this weekend and beyond they won't stop. Heck even Gore and Whiteface closed till this weekend, there's NO $ to be made during the week. Even if they did open this weekend how many people do think would show?


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## catskillman (Nov 21, 2013)

Spoke to the mountain yesterday - Hit "0" for a human - 

She said that opening day is scheduled to be Friday November 29th.


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## x10003q (Nov 21, 2013)

RichT said:


> Even if they did open this weekend how many people do think would show?



A larger % of pass holders vs single ticket buyers. They already booked the season pass $$$.


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## SIKSKIER (Nov 21, 2013)

Cannon used to have a deal with PSNH to reduce usage when it was real cold.Our sarcastic quip was "10 below..we don't make snow".


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## Riverskier (Nov 21, 2013)

x10003q said:


> A larger % of pass holders vs single ticket buyers. They already booked the season pass $$$.



A lot of people forget in these early/late season discussions that seasons pass holders are customers too, and make a decision where to buy their pass each year based on percieved value. If Boyne switched to a Hunter length season, I would probably buy a pass at Saddleback or Mt Abram instead of my Boyne pass. As long as a they give me a 6 month season, I am locked in even if they significantly increased the cost of my pass. Some people are tied to a mountain by being a local or property owner, but there are plenty others out there like myself. Are early/late season efforts profitable overall? I don't have the answer, and it would vary based on a case by case basis, but Boyne and killington seem to think so. It seems like a lot of people just look to day ticket sales to determine success or failure (not saying you x10003q, not sure where you stand), but that is very shortsighted, as I only addressed on of the many reasons and extended season MAY be profitable even without many day ticket sales.


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## RichT (Nov 21, 2013)

[h=1]SNOW REPORT[/h]

CURRENT BASE TEMP:41°CURRENT WEATHER:chance rain showers 

So here it is!!!!!!!!!!!


*Hello skiers and riders,*​We will be opening for the 2013-2014 season on *Friday, November 29th!* Snowmaking has been taking place on and off for the past few days, but with a warm-up anticipated, we've decided to wait until after Thanksgiving to bring you the great conditions you've come to expect from us. We'll see you soon!
Enjoy your day!


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2013)

Still lame! Should have been this Sunday! It's not the same old Hunter, that's for sure.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## x10003q (Nov 21, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> A lot of people forget in these early/late season discussions that seasons pass holders are customers too, and make a decision where to buy their pass each year based on percieved value. If Boyne switched to a Hunter length season, I would probably buy a pass at Saddleback or Mt Abram instead of my Boyne pass. As long as a they give me a 6 month season, I am locked in even if they significantly increased the cost of my pass. Some people are tied to a mountain by being a local or property owner, but there are plenty others out there like myself. Are early/late season efforts profitable overall? I don't have the answer, and it would vary based on a case by case basis, but Boyne and killington seem to think so. It seems like a lot of people just look to day ticket sales to determine success or failure (not saying you x10003q, not sure where you stand), but that is very shortsighted, as I only addressed on of the many reasons and extended season MAY be profitable even without many day ticket sales.



I was just pointing out another important part of the snowmaking equation. It seems that in recent years Hunter has started snowmaking right around Thanksgiving - plus or minus a week depending on the temps/weather. 

Windham and Plattekill  have not yet turned the guns on and Belleayre has a picture of its guns running.


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## RichT (Nov 21, 2013)

x10003q said:


> I was just pointing out another important part of the snowmaking equation. It seems that in recent years Hunter has started snowmaking right around Thanksgiving - plus or minus a week depending on the temps/weather.
> 
> Windham and Plattekill  have not yet turned the guns on and Belleayre has a picture of its guns running.



Belleayre's pic is from last week............they don't want to show you what's there now.


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2013)

I'll take the 29th if they open...can't make it T-day anyway.


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## 4aprice (Nov 21, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> Still lame! Should have been this Sunday! It's not the same old Hunter, that's for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was one of those people who used to go to Hunter when it would open early and close late.  I remember skiing before Thanksgiving there several times.  If I was skiing this weekend (Waiting for next weekend) out of here (NNJ) I guess I would be heading to Jiminy.  They seem to have taken that torch and run with it.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2013)

4aprice said:


> If I was skiing this weekend (Waiting for next weekend) out of here (NNJ) I guess I would be heading to Jiminy.  They seem to have taken that torch and run with it.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ



Looks like I'll be there on Saturday...went once early last season and it was OK.


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## dmc (Nov 21, 2013)

I'll be there Saturday...


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## goldsbar (Nov 21, 2013)

Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far.  Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom.  Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going.  Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.

Problem is it seems like Hunter hasn't advanced at all.  They've had the lead for the 30 years I've known them but the capacity seems the same.  Might not be true, but that's the impression I get.


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## andrec10 (Nov 21, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far.  Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom.  Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going.  Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.
> 
> Problem is it seems like Hunter hasn't advanced at all.  They've had the lead for the 30 years I've known them but the capacity seems the same.  Might not be true, but that's the impression I get.[/QUOTE
> 
> Their capacity has actually has actually went down. They used to rent 5 extra compressors, then 3, then 1 now none. That's a lot of lost capacity!


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## drjeff (Nov 21, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> goldsbar said:
> 
> 
> > Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far.  Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom.  Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going.  Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.
> ...


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## JimG. (Nov 21, 2013)

drjeff said:


> nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.



Which is why Hunter refurbished one pump house and installed a new one several years ago. They are perfectly capable of pumping out massive amounts of snow. The cost conscious management style (which is not necessarily wrong from a dollars and cents perspective) is what is holding them back.


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## 180 (Nov 21, 2013)

They have several trails now that have one point to turn on all the guns.  Milky Way, Cliff to name a few.


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## HowieT2 (Nov 21, 2013)

drjeff said:


> andrec10 said:
> 
> 
> > You can't really relate a decrease in compressors to a decrease in capacity in many case now with modern snowmaking technology. I'm sure from the pictures I've seen that Hunter has added many fan guns to their impressive arsenal over the years. Since they've got on board compressors, you don't need any external rental air source for those. Most modern low e air water towers can also operate 2 to 4+ guns for the same amount of external air as a single "old" air/water gun used, so you can run as many guns with far less air than in the past. Frankly in many cases and temperatures nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.
> ...


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## Riverskier (Nov 21, 2013)

drjeff said:


> andrec10 said:
> 
> 
> > You can't really relate a decrease in compressors to a decrease in capacity in many case now with modern snowmaking technology. I'm sure from the pictures I've seen that Hunter has added many fan guns to their impressive arsenal over the years. Since they've got on board compressors, you don't need any external rental air source for those. Most modern low e air water towers can also operate 2 to 4+ guns for the same amount of external air as a single "old" air/water gun used, so you can run as many guns with far less air than in the past. Frankly in many cases and temperatures nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.
> ...


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## millerm277 (Nov 22, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> goldsbar said:
> 
> 
> > Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far.  Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom.  Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going.  Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.
> ...



Low-e guns have made air capacity *much* less important overall. Secondly, you'll notice Hunter's new fan guns have on-board compressors (while the old Highlands do not), and they've been putting in a lot of new guns all over the mountain, both fans and towers, which are much more efficient.

The primary point here being simple: I suspect they can easily max out their water capacity without running out of air in normal snowmaking weather. There's no reason to have those compressors, they're just wasted money on something you don't need.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2013)

So many rumors... So much conjecture...

And the mountain just lets these rumors go on and on... broken pipes... global warming... management changes...wet bulb.. Rented compressors or lack there of...   I could go on and on...

All rumors... All going unchecked...  running rampant thought the town and onto the internet...


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2013)

45 degrees and light rain here in Hunter at 8am


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## JimG. (Nov 22, 2013)

I agree with your comment about the mountain not responding and it is what makes me wonder the most.


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2013)

JimG. said:


> I agree with your comment about the mountain not responding and it is what makes me wonder the most.



It would be a pretty easy thing to do...

They HAVE to know about all the rumors and hearsay..
And with little information coming from over there - people tend to lean on rumors more..


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2013)

dmc said:


> It would be a pretty easy thing to do...
> 
> They HAVE to know about all the rumors and hearsay..
> And with little information coming from over there - people tend to lean on rumors more..



I think that Killington and Mike Solimano when he took over as GM prior to last season is the perfect example as to how a bit of open and honest communication with the customer base pays off.

I've been fortunate enough at Mount Snow with Kelly Pawlak as GM to have that same experience.  She's always been incredibly forthcoming with straight information and that openess and honest is very tangible in her employees too


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2013)

Killington's resurrection has been hot on the mind of many of us here in the Catskills...

I've always been in the "COOL - Family run place - keep it that way" - but the last couple seasons at Killington make me feel like a ski area CAN be run by a corporation..


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## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2013)

I agree with everyone that the biggest issue is all of the non-communication. Can't we clone Mike S.? I saw him last season bussing tables! It would be a cold day in hell before you saw Russ bussing tables!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> I agree with everyone that the biggest issue is all of the non-communication. Can't we clone Mike S.? I saw him last season bussing tables! It would be a cold day in hell before you saw Russ bussing tables!



REMEMBER...  Orville was in the lodge picking up trays up until a few years before his death...  Hard to believe he's gone...  

My buddy said that Mike S. was introducing himself to people at the gondi the other morning... very cool...   Russ is around - he says hello all the time.


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## andrec10 (Nov 22, 2013)

I remember Orville bussing tables and picking up trash! He is soooooo missed along with Izzy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2013)

dmc said:


> Killington's resurrection has been hot on the mind of many of us here in the Catskills...
> 
> I've always been in the "COOL - Family run place - keep it that way" - but the last couple seasons at Killington make me feel like a ski area CAN be run by a corporation..



I think that you also need to consider the current trend in ski area managment where very often a "resort" nowadays is run by a REIT (Real Estate Investment Trust) who then contract with a different firm who specializes in actually running a ski area. That way you've got a situation where the "owners" are handling the Real Estate side of things, which for better or for worse tend to be the reality of a modern larger ski area, and then a group who's sole focus is just on the product being put on the hill for folks to slide down and then keep them "happy" while they're at the resort that day.  Even then it often comes down to having the right person, with a proper vision and managerial style to get the employees of that ski area behind that vision, to really make things work.

As much as sometimes I like to "arm chair quarterback" as a ski area GM, having known many of them at various sized ski areas in various parts of the country,  I know that it's in no ways an easy job, even if the good one's make it look easy! Big time respect for what it takes to do that job well!


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## dmc (Nov 22, 2013)

Having the correct people in place is huge..

Also having people that understand the history and needs of the regular customers in place is important too..
With some of these "revolving door" positions your start to get the sense that - what was - isn't any more because of the new faces...


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## drjeff (Nov 22, 2013)

dmc said:


> Having the correct people in place is huge..
> 
> Also having people that understand the history and needs of the regular customers in place is important too..
> With some of these "revolving door" positions your start to get the sense that - what was - isn't any more because of the new faces...



Hopefully for you Hunter regulars this will turn into a situation, like happened at Killington where the new owners EVENTUALLY realized after all the changes that they made to how the run the place, that in reality they didn't need to make any major changes at all.  Just keep with the longstanding historical trend of make evolutionary improvement to the ski area, instead of revolutionary changes to how the place is run.

As a business owner myself, I will readily admit that there are certain times when a complete top to bottom "rebranding" of your product is needed for the business to survive and thrive.  Very often though that is only when the business is on proverbial "life support" without any true identity before the change is made.  That doesn't sound like what Hunter was at before the new owners embarked on this current managerial trend


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## skiadikt (Nov 22, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Hopefully for you Hunter regulars this will turn into a situation, like happened at Killington where the new owners EVENTUALLY realized after all the changes that they made to how the run the place, that in reality they didn't need to make any major changes at all.  Just keep with the longstanding historical trend of make evolutionary improvement to the ski area, instead of revolutionary changes to how the place is run.
> 
> As a business owner myself, I will readily admit that there are certain times when a complete top to bottom "rebranding" of your product is needed for the business to survive and thrive.  Very often though that is only when the business is on proverbial "life support" without any true identity before the change is made.  That doesn't sound like what Hunter was at before the new owners embarked on this current managerial trend



killington was moving in negative trajectory. in fact, the previous president's parting shot was to push back the weekend opening time from 8:00 to 8:30. his concept of "growing" the business was to cut everything to the bone including lifts, snowmaking etc - maximizing his bottom line but not really "growing" the business.

first thing mike did when he became the president was announce that he wanted to bring back the beast. reconnect killington to it's past - what made it great. his first major policy decision was to rescind the outgoing president's policy of shortening the ski day. in short he listened ...


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## 4aprice (Nov 22, 2013)

Hunter used to have the early/late season crown for the NYC area.  We always thought of them as a "Killington South" in the 80's. Not only the skiing, the partying too.  It was after that time (spent a lot of time there in 80's) it went through a transformation to a much more family oriented place.  I loved the old Hunter but I'm sure not everyone up there is for turning back the clock.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## RichT (Nov 23, 2013)

4aprice said:


> Hunter used to have the early/late season crown for the NYC area.  We always thought of them as a "Killington South" in the 80's. Not only the skiing, the partying too.  It was after that time (spent a lot of time there in 80's) it went through a transformation to a much more family oriented place.  I loved the old Hunter but I'm sure not everyone up there is for turning back the clock.
> 
> Alex
> 
> Lake Hopatcong, NJ




I'm NOT............now that I have an 18 year old daughter:roll:!!!!!


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## andrec10 (Nov 23, 2013)

RichT said:


> I'm NOT............now that I have an 18 year old daughter:roll:!!!!!



God Help you!


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## dmc (Nov 23, 2013)

I miss the partying...


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## RichT (Nov 25, 2013)

Here's the poop from their website


[h=1]SNOW REPORT[/h]

CURRENT BASE TEMP:23°CURRENT WEATHER:slight chance snow 




*Hello skiers and riders,*​We will be opening for the 2013-2014 season on *Friday, November 29th!* Snowmaking has been taking place on and off for the past few days, *but with a warm-up anticipated*, we've decided to wait until after Thanksgiving to bring you the great conditions you've come to expect from us. We'll see you soon!
Enjoy your day!



;


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## millerm277 (Nov 25, 2013)

From the webcam it looks like HBK's filled in and they're working on Lower Broadway.


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## dmc (Nov 27, 2013)

POURED all night long...  
Creek is a couple feet up and and still rising...

Still raining at 8AM - 45 degrees in the valley.


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## JimG. (Nov 27, 2013)

dmc said:


> POURED all night long...
> Creek is a couple feet up and and still rising...
> 
> Still raining at 8AM - 45 degrees in the valley.



So they will have tonight and tomorrow to get HBK open for Friday.

What are the odds?

My backyard stream is raging right now.


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## andrec10 (Nov 27, 2013)

JimG. said:


> So they will have tonight and tomorrow to get HBK open for Friday.
> 
> What are the odds?
> 
> My backyard stream is raging right now.



Webcam shows the rain letting up and coverage looks good still. With 30 hours of snowmaking, it should be good. Lets hope they let the water drain out of it before they groom!


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## JimG. (Nov 27, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> Webcam shows the rain letting up and coverage looks good still. With 30 hours of snowmaking, it should be good. Lets hope they let the water drain out of it before they groom!



Hopefully picking up new gear on Friday, so I might not be at Hunter until Sat.


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## andrec10 (Nov 27, 2013)

We will be there Friday, Sat and Sun...


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## RichT (Nov 27, 2013)

My daughter went over there this morning to poach some turns............got kicked off after a little bit by ski patrol who are skiing, lift's going!! Those bastards LOL, so I have no worries that they will be open Friday morning, it's 33.1 at my house in Jewett. No more rain falling.


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## goldsbar (Nov 27, 2013)

Bit of a thread hijack - I might have to take back part of my comment on Belleayre about them being really slow to open compared to Hunter.  If their website is correct, they're actually scheduled to have a few trails top-to-bottom (sort of) on opening day.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 27, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> Bit of a thread hijack - I might have to take back part of my comment on Belleayre about them being really slow to open compared to Hunter.  If their website is correct, they're actually scheduled to have a few trails top-to-bottom (sort of) on opening day.



That looks to be true but NY state finances Bell snow making.


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## andrec10 (Nov 27, 2013)

Scotty said:


> That looks to be true but NY state finances Bell snow making.



You mean "we" finance it!


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## ScottySkis (Nov 27, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> You mean "we" finance it!



Yes we the tax payers of NY state fiancee Bell snow making , and Bell starts making snow before the others private owned Catskills hills do, making hard to compete and hurts business of small business big time.


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## Hawkshot99 (Nov 27, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Yes we the tax payers of NY state fiancee Bell snow making , and Bell starts making snow before the others private owned Catskills hills do, making hard to compete and hurts business of small business big time.



Does bell make money or lose money? If they make 1 dollar and im guessing they do, then the people of NY are not financing anything.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## ScottySkis (Nov 27, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Does bell make money or lose money? If they make 1 dollar and im guessing they do, then the people of NY are not financing anything.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



I hope there making money I don't know I don't ski their you know were I ski if I am by Bell not Bell.


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## andrec10 (Nov 27, 2013)

They used to lose money.


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## dmc (Nov 27, 2013)

This is a Scotty Vortex.... 

Been snowing a lot here - heading out to hang and find out what's going on out there..


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## andrec10 (Nov 27, 2013)

Any snow guns fired up yet Dmc?


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## ScottySkis (Nov 27, 2013)

dmc said:


> This is a Scotty Vortex....
> 
> Been snowing a lot here - heading out to hang and find out what's going on out there..



Enjoy pictures.would be.awesome.


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## SnowRock (Dec 5, 2013)

Burning a vacation day tomorrow... with this weather does it make sense for me to try and get up to Hunter for my first day of the season for any folks that have been out recently?


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## ScottySkis (Dec 5, 2013)

SnowRock said:


> Burning a vacation day tomorrow... with this weather does it make sense for me to try and get up to Hunter for my first day of the season for any folks that have been out recently?



I think DMC and few others had fun their. I think several trails should be open.


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## JimG. (Dec 5, 2013)

Did you go up today SnowRock?

Wonder if any bumps formed with the warm weather.


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## dmc (Dec 5, 2013)

Not enough people around for bumps


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## SnowRock (Dec 5, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Did you go up today SnowRock?
> 
> Wonder if any bumps formed with the warm weather.



I was looking to head up tomorrow... im like 70% at the moment


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## JimG. (Dec 5, 2013)

SnowRock said:


> I was looking to head up tomorrow... im like 70% at the moment



Bring raingear.


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## andrec10 (Dec 6, 2013)

winter storm watch in effect from this afternoon through saturday morning!

* accumulations... The potential for 7 inches of snowfall or more.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 6, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> winter storm watch in effect from this afternoon through saturday morning!
> 
> * accumulations... The potential for 7 inches of snowfall or more.



Wow great to hear this.


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## goldsbar (Dec 6, 2013)

Can anyone in the Cats give an update?  Radar looks like rain but local report claims snow at the moment.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 6, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> Can anyone in the Cats give an update?  Radar looks like rain but local report claims snow at the moment.



According to Hudson Valley Weather on Facebook's the Catskills started getting snow about an half hour ago.


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## mriceyman (Dec 6, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> Can anyone in the Cats give an update?  Radar looks like rain but local report claims snow at the moment.



The radar is never perfect near the line between snow/mixing/rain.. Especially at elevation


Sent from my iPhone


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## dmc (Dec 6, 2013)

rain...


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## ScottySkis (Dec 6, 2013)

dmc said:


> rain...



The mountain said on Facebook it was snowing about an hour ago hope it snowing .


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## ScottySkis (Dec 7, 2013)

How much snow fell on the mountain?


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## andrec10 (Dec 7, 2013)

Only a couple of inches. On another note, they were making snow on Wayout, cliff to Ike and minya and lower xover. It's like the olden days 


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## ScottySkis (Dec 7, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> Only a couple of inches. On another note, they were making snow on Wayout, cliff to Ike and minya and lower xover. It's like the olden days
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very glad to hear and I will check it out this winter.


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## keyser soze (Dec 7, 2013)

THis week looks like it should be ideal for snowmaking.  Next weekend should be pretty good


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## JimG. (Dec 8, 2013)

keyser soze said:


> THis week looks like it should be ideal for snowmaking.  Next weekend should be pretty good



They could easily get 75-80% of the mountain open by Sat.


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## andrec10 (Dec 8, 2013)

I would say 90%.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 8, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> I would say 90%.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hope they do. I thinking if I don't head north 
of skiing here.on Chraimss or New Years day.


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## 180 (Dec 8, 2013)

Cliff Bleeker Ike mmmmm!


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## JimG. (Dec 8, 2013)

180 said:


> Cliff Bleeker Ike mmmmm!



Yeah, Hunter came through today. Best skiing yet this season.


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## millerm277 (Dec 12, 2013)

Now all those complaints about caution/slowness seem comical. The cloud looks to be at full force.

I'm somewhat surprised at the E chair getting the guns this early in the season.

It looks like they're going to have every major run on the front face open except maybe Upper Crossover + Lower K27 by the weekend, and the guns are on on Clair's already.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 12, 2013)

millerm277 said:


> Now all those complaints about caution/slowness seem comical. The cloud looks to be at full force.
> 
> I'm somewhat surprised at the E chair getting the guns this early in the season.
> 
> It looks like they're going to have every major run on the front face open except maybe Upper Crossover + Lower K27 by the weekend, and the guns are on on Clair's already.



99% percent sure I be there this Saturday. It going to be great to be back.


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## andrec10 (Dec 12, 2013)

Bow to the Almighty!


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## Shredder of Gnar (Dec 12, 2013)

JimG. said:


> 180:   Cliff Bleeker Ike mmmmm!
> JimG: Yeah, Hunter came through today. Best skiing yet this season.



Bleek and Ike were off the charts Wednesday, but Cliff was pretty close to boilerplate - JimG, did they give Cliff any love Wed night I wonder?


----------

