# If you were buying a new car tomorrow...



## deadheadskier (May 21, 2008)

What would you purchase?

I would want to buy a Prius for the gas mileage, but probably couldn't deal with the lack of performance.  

I think I'd probably go with the Mini Cooper Clubman S.  29 mpg combined, more room and cargo space than  a standard mini and good pick up.


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## Greg (May 21, 2008)

Somebody posted some pics of the *new Forester* and it got me thinking so I looked it up. The 2.5XT with the turbo looks really nice and while not great on gas, it gets 50% better mileage than any of our Jeeps. I'm okay with that given it has 224 HP. My wife liked the look of it. We just might have to test drive one. I'm not big on buying first year model cars though and we're not due for a new car until next June so we probably won't pull the trigger until the 2010s come out if we go this route. Pretty rad though:


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## ctenidae (May 21, 2008)

I would buy a diesel.


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## dmc (May 21, 2008)

Picking up a 2009 Forester tonight...

My Forester didn't make it back from NH last week...


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## Greg (May 21, 2008)

dmc said:


> Picking up a 2009 Forester tonight...



Radical! Keep me posted. What are you getting? And how long did your previous one last you?

Edit: Just saw the pic. Ouch. Everyone okay?


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## dmc (May 21, 2008)

Greg said:


> Radical! Keep me posted. What are you getting? And how long did your previous one last you?
> 
> Edit: Just saw the pic. Ouch. Everyone okay?




I'm OK - scratched arm... Car totaled... Still spent the next 3 days at Tuckerman...

Was on Rt2 heading to Tucks - it was dark - i was being careful...  Passed through some random street light - when I came out of the light a bull moose was trotting across the road..

I hit it doing 45...  Had enough time to go left as he was moving right...  
Thanks GOD nodbody was with me... cause the passenger side is pretty messed up...


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## wa-loaf (May 21, 2008)

dmc said:


> Picking up a 2009 Forester tonight...
> 
> My Forester didn't make it back from NH last week...



Wow, was that a roll-over or did you hit a deer or something? :-o

I don't really want it, but we need a minivan. So I'd go for an AWD Toyota Sienna. We've already got an outback and that would become my primary car if that happened. :-D


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## dmc (May 21, 2008)

Greg said:


> What are you getting? And how long did your previous one last you?



2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X with Premium Package and VDC

It's bigger then the old one...  But i like the ground clearence and that it's short for parking in NYC...


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## dmc (May 21, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Wow, was that a roll-over or did you hit a deer or something? :-o



Bull Moose..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 21, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> What would you purchase?
> 
> I would want to buy a Prius for the gas mileage, but probably couldn't deal with the lack of performance.
> 
> I think I'd probably go with the Mini Cooper Clubman S.  29 mpg combined, more room and cargo space than  a standard mini and good pick up.



I think the new Audi A5 is sexy...but I don't think I could stomach the payments..my Mom has a Prius and the trunk is a joke.  If gas was $1.50 a gallon again...maybe the Audi C6 SUV...but I'm content with my Suburu..after 2.5 years and 40,000 miles I just bought some new tires and pretty soon need new brakes but otherwise it's been pretty much maintence free and it's great in the snow..the payments are low..and my insurance is low.  Oh Yeah also maybe a BMW 328XI..my Dad has one and it's a sexy ride..but almost 40 grand..


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 21, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> I would buy a diesel.



seriously with diesel a dollar more per gallon than gasoline


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## dmc (May 21, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> seriously with diesel a dollar more per gallon than gasoline



But diesel is more reliable..


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## campgottagopee (May 21, 2008)

For me it would be the Outback XT Limited. Sweet ride, all the goodies and darn sexy.


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## campgottagopee (May 21, 2008)

dmc said:


> But diesel is more reliable..



True and more $$$ to fix when they do go down.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 21, 2008)

dmc said:


> But diesel is more reliable..



If it's 20 below zero????  Plus alot of gas stations don't have diesel and if they do it's often just a few pumps so you have to wait behind trucks..


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## campgottagopee (May 21, 2008)

Greg said:


> Somebody posted some pics of the *new Forester* and it got me thinking so I looked it up. The 2.5XT with the turbo looks really nice and while not great on gas, it gets 50% better mileage than any of our Jeeps. I'm okay with that given it has 224 HP. My wife liked the look of it. We just might have to test drive one. I'm not big on buying first year model cars though and we're not due for a new car until next June so we probably won't pull the trigger until the 2010s come out if we go this route. Pretty rad though:



Great choice----only problem we're having with them is we can't get enough of them!!!


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## dmc (May 21, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> If it's 20 below zero????  Plus alot of gas stations don't have diesel and if they do it's often just a few pumps so you have to wait behind trucks..



People that live where it's 20 below drive diesels...


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## campgottagopee (May 21, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> If it's 20 below zero????  Plus alot of gas stations don't have diesel and if they do it's often just a few pumps so you have to wait behind trucks..


Ever been stuck on a chairlift when it's 20 below??? Guess what that auxilary generator runs on to get you off---diesel


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## ctenidae (May 21, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> seriously with diesel a dollar more per gallon than gasoline



It costs 20% more and is 30% more efficient. That math works for me.
Plus, diesel is, and will increasingly be, replaceable by non-petroleum sources, with costs lower than oil. Also, a large portion of the cost of diesel is tax, which will be a good target for cutting as the economy slows down and fuel costs continue to rise.


I do like the Audi A5, though. Nice looking car. On the list for next year's new car.


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## drjeff (May 21, 2008)

I'm considering one of these at the moment






The problem is that my old faithfull Chevy Trailblazer is running fine and dandy, although every now and then it hint's that after 7 years and close to 150k on it that it might be thinking about having one of those big $$ repairs that will push me over the edge into a new vehicle.  Plus, It's quite nice with my trailblazer be all paid off, not having to write out that monthly check   I figure that the extra I pay for my fuel economy (or lack there of) still doesn't get anywhere close to what my monthly car payment would be on a more fuel efficient vehicle right now.


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## nelsapbm (May 21, 2008)

I love my current vehicle and can highly recommend if anyone is in the market.....I have a 2007 Honda CRV EX. It's got real time AWD. I get 26 mpg on my commute (local/state roads, no stop & go), 29-30 on the interestate. When you throw on the snow tires the mileage drops by a mile or 2. The car kicks butt in the snow. Love it. The local Honda dealer here in Burlington could not keep them on the lot when I bought mine last summer.

http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/

http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/price.aspx?Model=RE4858JW


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## andyzee (May 21, 2008)

I'd probably go with the Toyota FJ Cruiser:


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## ed-drum (May 21, 2008)

My Mercedes diesel ALWAYS started. It started at minus 15 degrees with a click. You have to change the glow plugs in a diesel or it will not start in the cold. The diesel fuel has a winter additive in it now so it won't gel from the cold. But, the 6 cylinder 602 motor in it was a dog. It was great until the cylinder head cracked. In that motor they all cracked. So I have a 4 cylinder gas now. I will never buy a new car. I don't want to be a bank slave. Ed.


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## Hawkshot99 (May 21, 2008)

Toyota Tacoma


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## bvibert (May 21, 2008)

Audi A4 Avant 2.0T


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## mondeo (May 21, 2008)

Probably another STI, maybe the Lancer Evo. I don't like that the new STIs have added comfort without any better performance, but still more to my liking than any other car on the market. Impractical, yes. Fun as hell, absolutely.

You can sleep in a car, but you can't drive a house.


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## mondeo (May 21, 2008)

nelsapbm said:


> It's got real time AWD.http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/price.aspx?Model=RE4858JW



On a tangent here, I love all the marketing gimmicks that go along with the different AWD systems. Real time AWD? So, basically, it's a mechanical AWD system, where differentials react to wheel slippage instantaneously, just like almost every other AWD system out there? Almost as good as Subaru's "Symmetrical" AWD. I'd love to see an AWD system that actually treated the left wheels differently from the right.


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## deadheadskier (May 21, 2008)

mondeo said:


> I'd love to see an AWD system that actually treated the left wheels differently from the right.



Isn't that the concept behind Quattro??  It treats all four wheels differently depending on slippage?

Asking, I don't know this to be true.


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## mondeo (May 21, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> Isn't that the concept behind Quattro??  It treats all four wheels differently depending on slippage?
> 
> Asking, I don't know this to be true.



All that refers to is a Limited_slip_differential

What a limited slip differential does is split torque between two wheels when they are rotating at different speeds. The only type I'm even decently familiar with is a Torsen (used for the center diffs in Audis), which will provide about 3x (this amount is variable) the torque of the slipping wheel to the slower spinning wheel; so if the slipping wheel is taking up, say, 10 ft-lb of torque, the one that isn't slipping will get 30 ft-lb. An open differential will send all the torque to the wheel that is slipping, thus the advantage of the limited slip.

Still, this is symmetric. If the right wheel is slipping, the left wheel gets more torque. Left wheel slips, right gets more torque, and it's the same multiplier each way.

How do limited slip diffs work? Black magic, I say. Pure wizardry.


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## wa-loaf (May 21, 2008)

Here's a question. Hybrids are best for stop and go city driving where you can run the electric motor a lot and recharge the batteries with breaking. What vehicles do that the most? Minivans. How come car companies are wasting their time with hybrid SUVs? Put that technology and all the environmentally conscious stay at home moms would be snapping them up. I haven't even read about any in the planning stages, it's all little cars and SUVs. I think the car companies are really dropping the ball on this.


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## deadheadskier (May 21, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Here's a question. Hybrids are best for stop and go city driving where you can run the electric motor a lot and recharge the batteries with breaking. What vehicles do that the most? Minivans. How come car companies are wasting their time with hybrid SUVs? Put that technology and all the environmentally conscious stay at home moms would be snapping them up. I haven't even read about any in the planning stages, it's all little cars and SUVs. I think the car companies are really dropping the ball on this.



you just want another reason to get your wife to buy a mini van so you can get an suv


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## wa-loaf (May 21, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> you just want another reason to get your wife to buy a mini van so you can get an suv



Nah, we're getting a Minivan at some point anyway. I'd just like to have that option. And yes I'd like to make the outback my day to day vehicle. :-D


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## BeanoNYC (May 21, 2008)

In February I bought the car I would buy tomorrow.  I want two now!


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## BeanoNYC (May 21, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Here's a question. Hybrids are best for stop and go city driving where you can run the electric motor a lot and recharge the batteries with breaking. What vehicles do that the most? Minivans. How come car companies are wasting their time with hybrid SUVs? Put that technology and all the environmentally conscious stay at home moms would be snapping them up. I haven't even read about any in the planning stages, it's all little cars and SUVs. I think the car companies are really dropping the ball on this.



That's actually quite ingenious....


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## snoseek (May 22, 2008)

Early 2000's civic hx or 90's civic vx with cold hard cash.


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## riverc0il (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> I'm OK - scratched arm... Car totaled... Still spent the next 3 days at Tuckerman...
> 
> Was on Rt2 heading to Tucks - it was dark - i was being careful...  Passed through some random street light - when I came out of the light a bull moose was trotting across the road..


Damn, glad to hear you are okay. At 45 MPH, that could have been a lot worse. Route 2 is ridiculous. When I lived along Route 2 in VT and it was foggy, I used to slow down to between 20-30 MPH. Never got up to the speed limit at night time.


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> Damn, glad to hear you are okay. At 45 MPH, that could have been a lot worse. Route 2 is ridiculous. When I lived along Route 2 in VT and it was foggy, I used to slow down to between 20-30 MPH. Never got up to the speed limit at night time.



I was totally clear -  45 was what I going when I saw the moose...  
I was being careful..I never speed on a road like that..


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## riverc0il (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Here's a question. Hybrids are best for stop and go city driving where you can run the electric motor a lot and recharge the batteries with breaking. What vehicles do that the most? Minivans. *How come car companies are wasting their time with hybrid SUVs*? Put that technology and all the environmentally conscious stay at home moms would be snapping them up. I haven't even read about any in the planning stages, it's all little cars and SUVs. I think the car companies are really dropping the ball on this.


The real answer to why car companies are wasting their time with hybrid SUVs is that customers really really really like SUVs and car companies make a crap load of money off them. But gas is getting expensive so a hybrid SUV that gets 23 MPG is a major improvement. It also helps hypocrites that are concerned about their carbon foot print but still want a SUV life with themselves. That is the real and practical answer, but I ask myself the same question all the time. Hybrids are not targeted towards the markets in which they can make the greatest amount of impact but rather where the market is demanding them (and that is popular models by people that can afford to spend a lot of money on a car). The average hybrid still is not worth it financially, IMO, much as I wish that were not true. Really, only the Prius is close, and only then for the right driver.

Regarding "it's all little cars and SUVs, that is 100% untrue. Very very very few sub-economy and economy cars have hybrid alternatives currently (trust me, I've looked for them). The Prius was one of the first but few have followed in that size car. I think the Civic has a Hybrid but I can't think of any other smaller cars that do. Most hybrids seem bent on full size sedans and SUVs. The full size sedan is a case in which people want the full size model but want it with an economy car's gas mileage. I say a big whatever to that. I scoff when I see "hybrid" sedans that still get worse MPG than economy cars. 

Regardless of how you slice it, the market is not stepping it up quick enough due to the long turn around time on models which are going to be slow in catching up to expectations now that gas is heading for four dollars and more.


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## riverc0il (May 22, 2008)

I have been up in the air between a Legacy sedan vs the wagon. Pluses and minuses on both sides but I lean towards the sedan. My Saturn is only at 138k or so, so it still has another two full years before I am willing to trade it in (fully paid for a while now, why go into debt with financing when I could be saving up a down payment?). 2010 supposedly sees the new boxer diesel engine in the stateside Legacy, that might be an option. Maybe Subaru can get their gas mileage up by then. It really saddens me to be taking an average 6 MPG drop from my current vehicle. The diesel would get better mileage but at a higher price so I would probably pay about the same at the pump as I do now but the car would also cost an extra 2k or what not. There really are no good affordable and high MPG AWD options on the market. Considered the Impreza wagon as an alternative but with a full sized puppy on its way and us wanting to do some trips, I am all for a size upgrade compared to my current low volume sub-compact.

campgottagopee- Does Sub have any hybrids up its sleeves?


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## Philpug (May 22, 2008)

Greg said:


> Somebody posted some pics of the *new Forester* and it got me thinking so I looked it up. The 2.5XT with the turbo looks really nice and while not great on gas, it gets 50% better mileage than any of our Jeeps. I'm okay with that given it has 224 HP. My wife liked the look of it. We just might have to test drive one. I'm not big on buying first year model cars though and we're not due for a new car until next June so we probably won't pull the trigger until the 2010s come out if we go this route. Pretty rad though:





dmc said:


> Picking up a 2009 Forester tonight...
> 
> My Forester didn't make it back from NH last week...





Greg said:


> Radical! Keep me posted. What are you getting? And how long did your previous one last you?
> 
> Edit: Just saw the pic. Ouch. Everyone okay?





dmc said:


> 2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X with Premium Package and VDC
> 
> It's bigger then the old one...  But i like the ground clearence and that it's short for parking in NYC...


I picked up an 09 Forester a month ago, Prem pkg w/ VDC. So far pretty happy. MPG, while not quite as good as my 06 Leg SW, I am getting 25.2 w/ 2100 miles on it. I did a 2 year lease, hoping the diesel will be out at that point. I will weigh all my options though. Chances are I will stay with another Subie though.


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## andyzee (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Picking up a 2009 Forester tonight...
> 
> My Forester didn't make it back from NH last week...


 
Wow, that sux! Glad you're ok and you showed some true spirit continuing your trip!


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Wow, that sux! Glad you're ok and you showed some true spirit continuing your trip!



thanks...  
There's a million reasons not to do stuff...  You just gotta look past that..  And embrace the moment when it happens...


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## danny p (May 22, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> For me it would be the Outback XT Limited. Sweet ride, all the goodies and darn sexy.



+1


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## MRGisevil (May 22, 2008)

A bunch of dudes....drooling over station wagons...there's just something not right about that. :lol:

Here's my pick:


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

MRGisevil said:


> A bunch of dudes....drooling over station wagons...there's just something not right about that. :lol:



Got to have a place to carry stuff...


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## deadheadskier (May 22, 2008)

MRGisevil said:


> A bunch of dudes....drooling over station wagons...there's just something not right about that. :lol:
> 
> Here's my pick:



:lol:

I made this thread in practical terms.  If we're talking dream cars then mine would be an Audi RS4


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## ctenidae (May 22, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> campgottagopee- Does Sub have any hybrids up its sleeves?



I guess they're working on one:
http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win06_HEV.htm

But, judging by the dateline, slowly.


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## nelsapbm (May 22, 2008)

Re: Real-time AWD. My bad. It's actually Real-time 4WD. Now, I'm not a car expert by any means, but in basic terms, the car is 2 wd and when the "system" senses slippage, the 4wd kicks in.


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## Philpug (May 22, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> I guess they're working on one:
> http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win06_HEV.htm
> 
> But, judging by the dateline, slowly.



One of teh main reasons Toyota bought their stake in Subaru, was for the Hybrid technology that Subie has.


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## Warp Daddy (May 22, 2008)

DMC  Just saw the pics  Sure GLAD ur OK man  !!  

Cars can be replace  great drummers man they only happen on rare occasion  -- Rock on !


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> DMC  Just saw the pics  Sure GLAD ur OK man  !!
> 
> Cars can be replace  great drummers man they only happen on rare occasion  -- Rock on !



Thanks... 

But let's get this straight...  According to some people, I am just a "mediocre and untrained" drummer...   But i love to play drums!!!  So maybe that's what separates me from the better and more trained drummers....  

I'm back to maybe looking into the VW Tiguan again - got my insurance settlement today....  

HOLY COW!!!!  I'm thinking i can pay cash for my new car now.... sweeeet!!!  i guess they really couldn't see all the dings and scratches... they gave me FULL resale minus the 90,000 or so miles...  Guess I'm re-upping with Progressive..

But I probably should take out a quick loan to keep the credit report up....

It's nice to be in a place in life where i can pay cash for a car...


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## Warp Daddy (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Thanks...
> 
> But let's get this straight...  According to some people, I am just a "mediocre and untrained" drummer...   But i love to play drums!!!  So maybe that's what separates me from the better and more trained drummers....
> 
> ...



Yes LIFE IS SVEET when ya get to that possibility-- have fun


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## campgottagopee (May 22, 2008)

riverc0il said:


> campgottagopee- Does Sub have any hybrids up its sleeves?



Yes, but you will see the diesel first. Latest word around the campfire is we hope to have diesel MY'11 with hybrid MY'12. Subie is also introducing all electric cars (think next month) in NYC. They are giving 2 to the NYC water board as test cars. They have a range of 50 miles and will take a full charge in 15 minutes. Be interesting to see where it goes from there.


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

Well... It's official...

I test drove the Tiguan...  And bought it...
it's amazing the deals that suddenly present themselves when you talk cash... 
http://www.vw.com/tiguan/en/us/

i haven't had such a nice car in a long time...  Psyched!


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## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Well... It's official...
> 
> I test drove the Tiguan...  And bought it...
> it's amazing the deals that suddenly present themselves when you talk cash...
> ...



Hows the space compared to the Forrester? It certainly looks smaller.


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## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Well... It's official...
> 
> I test drove the Tiguan...  And bought it...
> it's amazing the deals that suddenly present themselves when you talk cash...
> ...



GOOD LUCK!  Vdubs are fun to drive.  I could have sworn you signed the papers on the forester already.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Well... It's official...
> 
> I test drove the Tiguan...  And bought it...
> it's amazing the deals that suddenly present themselves when you talk cash...
> ...



How much was it??


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## campgottagopee (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Well... It's official...
> 
> I test drove the Tiguan...  And bought it...
> it's amazing the deals that suddenly present themselves when you talk cash...
> ...



Cool, looks saweet!!


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## campgottagopee (May 22, 2008)

dmc;26653
it's amazing the deals that suddenly present themselves when you talk cash... [/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Presentation is everything


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## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> How much was it??



Like school on Columbus Day....


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Hows the space compared to the Forrester? It certainly looks smaller.



Smaller..  But it should be OK...  Going to get racks for it..


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> How much was it??



More then I would've paid for a Forester xt limited...

But i think it's got more cool features... 

the Forester is just getting to big...  Kept coming back to that when i was thinking about buying one...


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## Warp Daddy (May 22, 2008)

Good luck man  it looks very kewl


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## Warp Daddy (May 22, 2008)

What color we talkin here ?


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## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> the Forester is just getting to big...  Kept coming back to that when i was thinking about buying one...



What class is this VW?  ...SUV?


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> What class is this VW?  ...SUV?



i think it's a mini-suv....


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## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> i think it's a mini-suv....



Cool...looks to be the size of my old freelander.  Good luck with it, man.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> More then I would've paid for a Forester xt limited...
> 
> But i think it's got more cool features...
> 
> the Forester is just getting to big...  Kept coming back to that when i was thinking about buying one...



$25,000?


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## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> $25,000?



Like school on Columbus day.


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## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> $25,000?





BeanoNYC said:


> Like school on Columbus day.



Just not right? :lol:

GSS, go to Edmunds.com and build one with the features you want. You can look up what people are paying in your area for that set-up. You can usually get a better than what they come up with.


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> $25,000?



> $250000
Look it up... make your deal..


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## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> i think it's a mini-suv....



Sounds like they've got diesels.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> > $250000
> Look it up... make your deal..



Dang MSRP is $33,000 for the base model before Destination charge..yikes..that's alot for a VW..


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## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Dang MSRP is $33,000 for the base model before Destination charge..yikes..that's alot for a VW..



Tiguan, not Taureg.


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## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Just not right? :lol:
> 
> GSS, go to Edmunds.com and build one with the features you want. You can look up what people are paying in your area for that set-up. You can usually get a better than what they come up with.



No class.  :flame:

Anyhoo...Edmunds will have the msrp information but it's too soon for invoice or true market value.


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Sounds like they've got diesels.



i think this car has been around Europe for a while..

Makes sense they put a diesel in..  

 Europe is the "promised land" for cool cars...


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> No class.  :flame:
> 
> Anyhoo...Edmunds will have the msrp information but it's too soon for invoice or true market value.



And it's tough to get a deal now..  These were the only ones in the Hudson Valley... And have only been in the dealership for a few days...

If I hadn't have had paid cash... I wouldn't have gotten a deal...
cash is king...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> No class.  :flame:
> 
> Anyhoo...Edmunds will have the msrp information but it's too soon for invoice or true market value.




Edmunds is great because it says what dealer holdback is and also dealer incentives..I enjoy bargaining for a car.


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## dmc (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Dang MSRP is $33,000 for the base model before Destination charge..yikes..that's alot for a VW..



And you wonder why I don't like to tell people how much i pay for stuff...

I will tell you i paided considerably less then this number...


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## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Dang MSRP is $33,000 for the base model before Destination charge..yikes..that's alot for a VW..



Ah, looks like only the top set-up is available now. The VW site lists start as 23,000 without 4 motion. Seems steep compared to what you can get with a Subi for the same price.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

V-dubs have really high resale values..which makes for low pricing on a lease.  Back in college I leased a Jetta 0 down for under $250 a month..


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Ah, looks like only the top set-up is available now. The VW site lists start as 23,000 without 4 motion. Seems steep compared to what you can get with a Subi for the same price.



They are nicer then the Subaru...

I made this decision differently then usual...  Because i got such a kick ass settlement from my Subi, I decided to go for a little luxury.  I was expecting a lot less.. the difference is what made me go for the pricier car...  

i deserve it... Been through some tough times.. Doing well now..

And like i said.. the Foresters are getting too big and I really can fit a bass drum in an Outback..


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> If I hadn't have had paid cash... I wouldn't have gotten a deal...
> cash is king...



DMC at the VW dealership:


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

HAHah....  Actually had to go to my bank for a check...

The girls gave me the third degree...   Small town...  Told them I as buying a HumV...


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> HAHah....  Actually had to go to my bank for a check...
> 
> The girls gave me the third degree...   Small town...  Told them I as buying a HumV...



What's the warranty on that sucker, btw?


----------



## bvibert (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> They are nicer then the Subaru...
> 
> I made this decision differently then usual...  Because i got such a kick ass settlement from my Subi, I decided to go for a little luxury.  I was expecting a lot less.. the difference is what made me go for the pricier car...
> 
> ...



Cool D!  Can't wait to hear how you like it!


----------



## deadheadskier (May 22, 2008)

Well it won't be bought tomorrow, but the next ride will definitely be a Prius for me.  I just read an article saying the next gen 2010 Prius is gunning for 100 mpg and actually have more pick up.  I can't even imagine what the waitlist will be fr it, even if it _only_ emds up being 75 mpg.  It apparently is going to be less expensive as well.

sign me up


----------



## Warp Daddy (May 22, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> Well it won't be bought tomorrow, but the next ride will definitely be a Prius for me.  I just read an article saying the next gen 2010 Prius is gunning for 100 mpg and actually have more pick up.  I can't even imagine what the waitlist will be fr it, even if it _only_ emds up being 75 mpg.  It apparently is going to be less expensive as well.
> 
> sign me up





I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER   

I'll be gettin one of those too . My daughter just bought one in Feb  and is getting 51 mpg


----------



## campgottagopee (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Edmunds is great because it says what dealer holdback is and also dealer incentives..I enjoy bargaining for a car.



Me too


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Me too



:smash:  .... LMAO


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> DMC at the VW dealership:





Hahaha..that's like 600 bucks..


----------



## Philpug (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> And it's tough to get a deal now..  These were the only ones in the Hudson Valley... And have only been in the dealership for a few days...
> 
> If I hadn't have had paid cash... I wouldn't have gotten a deal...
> cash is king...



Boy are you wrong..cash is NOT king at a dealership. They make no money on the financing when you pay cash..they would rather you finance.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 22, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Boy are you wrong..cash is NOT king at a dealership. They make no money on the financing when you pay cash..they would rather you finance.




But the owner can keep the cash and keep the sale off the books....right??


----------



## Philpug (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> But the owner can keep the cash and keep the sale off the books....right??



Ha, who do you think owns the inventory? The dealer? no, he floorplans them with banks. Cannot keep the sale off the books, what about sales tax? that needs to get paid. Warranty registration, ect.


----------



## Paul (May 22, 2008)

Just bought a new car for the wife today.

2008 Mini Cooper S Convertible.





She's happy with it.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (May 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Hahaha..that's like 600 bucks..


$660 to be exact....:lol:



GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> But the owner can keep the cash and keep the sale off the books....right??



That is not legal.  Plus VW will know about it and its in the records.


----------



## Breeze (May 22, 2008)

I didn't wait for  "tomorrow",  I  pulled the trigger last July.  Bought a  used  ( '04) Toyota Matrix XR ,  the front wheel drive, not the AWD. It replaced an aged ( 1990)  but low mile ( 146k) Jeep Cherokee LT. The  Jeep was originally a Florida car, and had been garaged for YEARS in Maine, used about 3 weeks a year as a Vacation car for a retired couple.  Bought it for 5K in 2001  and sold it for 1500$  in January of '08. Didn't owe me a dime and  actually gifted me with a  good resale value for age and mileage.

I'm  totally happy with the Matrix XR.  We are a 2 car/ 2 person household,  the other car is also a Jeep, '97 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Always a 4wd vehicle here for the person who wants/needs it. The  Matrix does snow/ice damn well in the XR config, although I preferred the Jeep for early morning  travel through Pinkham  Notch  on  snow days.  Next winter will see studded snow tires  on the  Matrix and it will go anywhere, anytime,  I have  no doubt. 

I'm getting very close to 40 MPG with the Matrix here in  Open Road country. If I run it down to the point where the gas/fill warning light comes on,   I'm looking at 11 gallons  max to fill. If I fill at a quarter, its less than ten gallons.  

I wanted  the Matrix in  5-speed manual, but it wasn't to be had even with  6 months of  specific shopping.  The Auto shift is not to be dissed, and  I'm not the least bit sorry I don't have a clutch.   The car is  too darned smart all by itself.

Car shopping in this household is always an extended venue.  My other half loves the chase and we can literally take  9-12  months to  find  "the right deal" and close. 

We are  saving a hundred dollars a month  in  gas costs with the Matrix XR over the Cherokee 4L engine. We were due for a car payment on any stretch of any imagination,  the  adjusted OOP expense for the  Matrix  is about  $150/mo,  car payment minus the  gas savings realized plus some insurance cost for a newer vehicle. 

I did lose sleep for a few weeks last  summer with "buyers remorse", but today I am  more than happy that we made the deal, when we did.  Every day that gas prices go up, I am happier with  what  I drive now and  happier with  what  I did LAST year,  and  happier still that I'm not trying to make deals on wheels today or tomorrow.

You go  guys.  I don't diss the shopping fun a bit.  

Breeze


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Boy are you wrong..cash is NOT king at a dealership. They make no money on the financing when you pay cash..they would rather you finance.



Whatever...


----------



## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Boy are you wrong..cash is NOT king at a dealership. They make no money on the financing when you pay cash..they would rather you finance.



They do make more money through financing, but they're also always happy to move inventory as well.


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> They do make more money through financing, but they're also always happy to move inventory as well.



He sold 2 today!!  He was highly motivated to move them...


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Boy are you wrong..cash is NOT king at a dealership. They make no money on the financing when you pay cash..they would rather you finance.



VW has a 2%/Base MSRP dealer holdback.  Even if the dealer sold the truck at invoice, they still would make a quick $660 on the sale.  If I'm the dealer and DMC comes in waving the Benjamin's, I'll take that bird in the hand.


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

Loved driving that car back from the dealer...  

Fun to drive..


----------



## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

dmc said:


> Loved driving that car back from the dealer...
> 
> Fun to drive..



You can't walk into a dealer and drive out with a car the same day in MA.


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> You can't walk into a dealer and drive out with a car the same day in MA.



Really?  What's the reasoning behind that?


----------



## wa-loaf (May 22, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Really?  What's the reasoning behind that?



No temp plates, you gotta have the thing registered and insured before you go anywhere. There's a whole side business of runners who go and take care of things at the registry. You can do it yourself, but for 10 - 15 bucks the dealer will send the runner. It still takes at least a day to have it ready.


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> No temp plates, you gotta have the thing registered and insured before you go anywhere. There's a whole side business of runners who go and take care of things at the registry. You can do it yourself, but for 10 - 15 bucks the dealer will send the runner. It still takes at least a day to have it ready.



Interesting.  I've never seen temp plates in NY actually.  I've had them switch plates from my trade in before.  Wonder if dealers can keep a stock of plates on hand for sales here.  Camp would know for sure.


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> No temp plates, you gotta have the thing registered and insured before you go anywhere. There's a whole side business of runners who go and take care of things at the registry. You can do it yourself, but for 10 - 15 bucks the dealer will send the runner. It still takes at least a day to have it ready.



I got my insurance company in touch with the car dealer - insurance went down without a problem. calls and faxes -  I just delegated..  and why not.? I pay for the service... Let them deal with it..

Walked out with plates, a temp registration and a faxed insurance card...  Jumped in and drove off...  Everything went pretty smoothly through the whole process..


----------



## dmc (May 22, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Interesting.  I've never seen temp plates in NY actually.  I've had them switch plates from my trade in before.  Wonder if dealers can keep a stock of plates on hand for sales here.  Camp would know for sure.



They must...


----------



## Paul (May 23, 2008)

I've done same-day deals here in CT a few times.Switch reg, new reg, didn't matter. Insurance et al was all over the phone. The only reason we didn't do my wife's Mini yesterday was because we drove there seperately and didn't want to leave a car behind to come pick-up later. 

The dealer himself doesn't make any more on financing than he would on a cash sale. That's all for the big boys.


----------



## Philpug (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> VW has a 2%/Base MSRP dealer holdback.  Even if the dealer sold the truck at invoice, they still would make a quick $660 on the sale.  If I'm the dealer and DMC comes in waving the Benjamin's, I'll take that bird in the hand.



But you would rather them finance. I never said dealers won't take ca, but they would rather you finance. If Cash was King..Financing is the Ace. At the same deal you mentioned, if you financed with them, even at "buy rate", they would make another $2-400.00 minimum.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Boy are you wrong..cash is NOT king at a dealership. They make no money on the financing when you pay cash..they would rather you finance.



True


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> But the owner can keep the cash and keep the sale off the books....right??



Yeah, right---we love meetings with the IRS


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Ha, who do you think owns the inventory? The dealer? no, he floorplans them with banks. Cannot keep the sale off the books, what about sales tax? that needs to get paid. Warranty registration, ect.



The manufactors require dealers to have floorplans--just easier. Any good biz man uses the "banks" money instead of their own. No need to tie up all that cash, let your money make money. Our accounts are "swept" every nght to make us money.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> VW has a 2%/Base MSRP dealer holdback.  Even if the dealer sold the truck at invoice, they still would make a quick $660 on the sale.  If I'm the dealer and DMC comes in waving the Benjamin's, I'll take that bird in the hand.



That's true 99% of the time. Very few cars we "dealers" can hold on to for "big bucks", obviuosly it's a supply and demand thing. For example; Nissan Skyline GTR, good luck buying that car anywhere near MSRP. Most will be going for 10-15k over that.


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> But you would rather them finance. I never said dealers won't take ca, but they would rather you finance. If Cash was King..Financing is the Ace. At the same deal you mentioned, if you financed with them, even at "buy rate", they would make another $2-400.00 minimum.



Well...either way, I never discuss how I'm paying for a car when negotiation price.  As soon as that 4 box sheet comes out, I tell them to put it away.  I like to talk straight up numbers with them.  After we agree on a price, then we work out trade and payment options.  Good or bad?  I don't know.  It's just the way I feel comfortable during the buying process.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> You can't walk into a dealer and drive out with a car the same day in MA.




Never heard that before, why???


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> No temp plates, you gotta have the thing registered and insured before you go anywhere. There's a whole side business of runners who go and take care of things at the registry. You can do it yourself, but for 10 - 15 bucks the dealer will send the runner. It still takes at least a day to have it ready.



Never mind:dunce:


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Never heard that before, why???



didn't have your morning coffee yet?


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Never mind:dunce:



You'll have your 1000 posts in no time if you keep that up!


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

Nice poker shades, DMC:


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Interesting.  I've never seen temp plates in NY actually.  I've had them switch plates from my trade in before.  Wonder if dealers can keep a stock of plates on hand for sales here.  Camp would know for sure.



No temp plates in NY, we transfer from car to car using a "MV53" or temporary registration. That gives us 45 days to get all p/w down to DMV to process your perminant registration. Also, we can issue plates right from the dealership just like DMV does.We agian use the temp reg then would mail the perm one to the customer.


----------



## Philpug (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Well...either way, I never discuss how I'm paying for a car when negotiation price.  As soon as that 4 box sheet comes out, I tell them to put it away.  I like to talk straight up numbers with them.  After we agree on a price, then we work out trade and payment options.  Good or bad?  I don't know.  It's just the way I feel comfortable during the buying process.



I didn't liek selling with a "4 square" and I would not buy a car at a dealer that used one.

My 4 square:

1. Decide on car
2. Discuss price
3. Discuss trade (if there is one)
4. Discuss finance/payment terms

2-4 are mutually exclusive transactions from each other.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> At the same deal you mentioned, if you financed with them, even at "buy rate", they would make another $2-400.00 minimum.




Really??? I want to move my biz----where do you live???


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> You'll have your 1000 posts in no time if you keep that up!



HaHaHaHa----too much coffee---little jacked up this AM


----------



## Philpug (May 23, 2008)

Yes, Mass is a PITA when it comes to car sales. I would cringe when I had someone come down from Mass to buy a car, almost every transaction was a "loser" for me once I figured my time into the transaction.


----------



## Philpug (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Really??? I want to move my biz----where do you live???


Sounds like you are dealing with the wrong banks, but it might also be NY.


----------



## dmc (May 23, 2008)

Here she be...


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Well...either way, I never discuss how I'm paying for a car when negotiation price.  As soon as that 4 box sheet comes out, I tell them to put it away.  I like to talk straight up numbers with them.  After we agree on a price, then we work out trade and payment options.  Good or bad?  I don't know.  It's just the way I feel comfortable during the buying process.




Amen, that's the way to do it.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Sounds like you are dealing with the wrong banks, but it might also be NY.



What exactly is a "wrong bank"


----------



## dmc (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Nice poker shades, DMC:



Reminds me of Ill Mitch
http://www.illmitch.com/


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Yes, Mass is a PITA when it comes to car sales. I would cringe when I had someone come down from Mass to buy a car, almost every transaction was a "loser" for me once I figured my time into the transaction.



Obviously your not in the biz anymore. I now understand


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> Here she be...



Nice!  My Jetta was in the same color.  (Is it still called Galactic Blue?)  Congrats.

Edit:  Still a little strip on Hellgate, I see.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> Here she be...



Nice ride--gotta tint those windows and throw some 20's on her:wink:

Enjoy!!!!! New rides are cool


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> Reminds me of Ill Mitch
> http://www.illmitch.com/



That's some funny stuff!  These pics are from one of this week's internet memes.   Some playa looking for love on craigslist.


----------



## wa-loaf (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Nice ride--gotta tint those windows and throw some 20's on her:wink:
> 
> Enjoy!!!!! New rides are cool



lol . . .  needs some spinners too.


----------



## bvibert (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> Here she be...



Nice looking ride, I like the color!  Good choice of back drop too!


----------



## wa-loaf (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> Here she be...



Did you just pick a scenic spot or is that the view from your place? :-o


----------



## Greg (May 23, 2008)

MRGisevil said:


> A bunch of dudes....drooling over station wagons...there's just something not right about that. :lol:



That is kinda funny... :lol:



dmc said:


> Got to have a place to carry stuff...



Yeah, like kids....


----------



## Warp Daddy (May 23, 2008)

Nice wheels _Great backdrop


----------



## dmc (May 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Did you just pick a scenic spot or is that the view from your place? :-o



It's a friend of mines lot...  
best view of Hunter...


----------



## Greg (May 23, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Well...either way, I never discuss how I'm paying for a car when negotiation price.  As soon as that 4 box sheet comes out, I tell them to put it away.  I like to talk straight up numbers with them.  After we agree on a price, then we work out trade and payment options.  Good or bad?  I don't know.  It's just the way I feel comfortable during the buying process.





I [Hart] Skiing said:


> I didn't liek selling with a "4 square" and I would not buy a car at a dealer that used one.
> 
> My 4 square:
> 
> ...



The last few cars I've bought, I've taken this approach:


Decide on vehicle. Test drive (sometimes).
Decide on options.
Go to Edmunds.com and get the invoice price.
Call dealership and ask to be connected to the most popular dealer there.
Tell dealer that you need a car quick and that you're prepared to buy today.
Give them the model, list of options, and color and ask them to get you one for $X (invoice price or a few percent higher).
Reiterate that you are ready to come down and sign the papers today.
If you don't get the price you want, call the next dealer.
Buy car.

It's worked well for me and I've never paid more than 3% over invoice (one time I got invoice) and I've always financed. Doing it over the phone puts you on a level playing field with the dealer (you're not at his "home turf"). Reiterating the quick sale and doing the research ahead of time (defining options, color and price range) makes it an easy sale.



dmc said:


> Here she be...



Sweet! Congrats. And yes, nice backdrop too!


----------



## Philpug (May 23, 2008)

Greg said:


> The last few cars I've bought, I've taken this approach:
> 
> 
> Decide on vehicle. Test drive (sometimes).
> ...



3% over? You are more generous than most. If I had someone that I felt was going to be "hard nosed", I would start them at 2.5% and close the deal where ever I could, (w/in  reason).


----------



## deadheadskier (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> That's true 99% of the time. Very few cars we "dealers" can hold on to for "big bucks", obviuosly it's a supply and demand thing. For example; Nissan Skyline GTR, good luck buying that car anywhere near MSRP. Most will be going for 10-15k over that.



Have you test drove one?


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> Have you test drove one?



No, not even sure I'll be able to. I'm not even getting any here at my dealership. The intial investment for the dealer to even begin selling them is aroung 65k. We opted out of that!!!! Just not a market here for that car ion my one horse town.


----------



## dmc (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> No, not even sure I'll be able to. I'm not even getting any here at my dealership. The intial investment for the dealer to even begin selling them is aroung 65k. We opted out of that!!!! Just not a market here for that car ion my one horse town.



65k... wow...


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> 65k... wow...



Tell me about it


----------



## deadheadskier (May 23, 2008)

dmc said:


> 65k... wow...



It's actually not a bad deal when you consider the capabilities of the car.  It out performs top of the line Porches that are double the price.


----------



## campgottagopee (May 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> It's actually not a bad deal when you consider the capabilities of the car.  It out performs top of the line Porches that are double the price.



I wasn't talking about the price of the car. I was referring to how much a dealer would need to invest in his/her facility to even begin getting the to sell. Issue for me here is I wouldn't allocated enough of them to make it worth the investment. Obviously the bigger metro areas wont have the same issue.

You are right in that the car is one heluva buy for what it can do.


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> It's actually not a bad deal when you consider the capabilities of the car.  It out performs top of the line Porches that are double the price.




No doubt.  That whip is the bomb in Grand Turismo!  ...oh my god, I'm such a nerd.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> But you would rather them finance. I never said dealers won't take ca, but they would rather you finance. If Cash was King..Financing is the Ace. At the same deal you mentioned, if you financed with them, even at "buy rate", they would make another $2-400.00 minimum.



Do they make that much on a lease?


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 23, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> I didn't liek selling with a "4 square" and I would not buy a car at a dealer that used one.
> 
> My 4 square:
> 
> ...



I agree..when I've leased a car..I always haggle on a price first..then when I get down to a decent price..then I say..O.K. I'd like a zero down 36 month lease..and I don't think many people go about it that way..and I double check the dealer calculations because I've noticed fuzzy math before..and stupid ad-ons like a marketing fee and stuff..


----------



## Philpug (May 23, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Do they make that much on a lease?



Usually. They can also "bump" the money factor too.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 23, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Nice ride--gotta tint those windows and throw some 20's on her:wink:
> 
> Enjoy!!!!! New rides are cool





Yeah put that on 24s


----------



## mondeo (May 24, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> It's actually not a bad deal when you consider the capabilities of the car.  It out performs top of the line Porches that are double the price.



I'm gonna have to give myself props on this one. I skipped over the original statement, but figured it had to be the GTR based purely on this comment. I'd still take the one below, though, over the GTR.



MRGisevil said:


> A bunch of dudes....drooling over station wagons...there's just something not right about that. :lol:
> 
> Here's my pick:


:-o
If money were no option, that would be my second car. Still take the STI as a daily driver - it's a little better in the snow. And now it even has fold-down rear seats.

Guys - you've been schooled by a chick.


----------



## Mildcat (May 24, 2008)

dmc said:


> Here she be...



Wow, you can tell it's someones birthday. :beer:


----------



## andyzee (May 24, 2008)

dmc said:


> Here she be...


 
May she serve you well.



Clip clop clippity clop
The horsey plods along
Clip clop clippity clop
The horsey sings his song


----------



## drjeff (May 24, 2008)

Sweet color on the new wheels DMC!


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 25, 2008)




----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 25, 2008)

Greg said:


> The last few cars I've bought, I've taken this approach:
> 
> 
> Decide on vehicle. Test drive (sometimes).
> ...






This is why I like Saturn so much.....Love the "no dicker sticker".  When paying so much for a product, I want to know what the price is and make my decision based on that, and not wonder if I could have squeezed an extra percentage point out of the dealer (or wonder if the dealer gave the next person that extra percentage point).


----------



## BeanoNYC (May 25, 2008)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> This is why I like Saturn so much.....Love the "no dicker sticker".  When paying so much for a product, I want to know what the price is and make my decision based on that, and not wonder if I could have squeezed an extra percentage point out of the dealer (or wonder if the dealer gave the next person that extra percentage point).



Interesting.  That's one of the reasons I wouldn't shop for a Saturn.  I feel that, from the beginning, I'm being cut of of potential savings.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 25, 2008)

Some people just don't feel comfortable haggling..when I customer wants to haggle with me..I reduce the price if I know they're going to shop around because I'd be a hypocrit if I didn't.  My favorite thing to haggle on is the nightly rate of a hotel room during the off-season..wow..it's like taking candy from a baby..


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 25, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Interesting.  That's one of the reasons I wouldn't shop for a Saturn.  I feel that, from the beginning, I'm being cut of of potential savings.




Well, the way I look at it is that the "savings" you're talking about are built into the price from the get-go, so some people succeed in knocking down the dealer-inflated prices better than others.  I may or may not get the best price, but I don't want to have to worry about it when dropping twenty grand.  With Saturn, the price is there for you to read with your two eyes, and if you don't like it, go try to "out-bargain" the dealers, who's JOB it is to negotiate with customers to make them feel like they're getting good deals/out-negotiating the dealer.


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## BeanoNYC (May 25, 2008)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Well, the way I look at it is that the "savings" you're talking about are built into the price from the get-go, so some people succeed in knocking down the dealer-inflated prices better than others.  I may or may not get the best price, but I don't want to have to worry about it when dropping twenty grand.  With Saturn, the price is there for you to read with your two eyes, and if you don't like it, go try to "out-bargain" the dealers, who's JOB it is to negotiate with customers to make them feel like they're getting good deals/out-negotiating the dealer.



To each, his own...I guess.


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## drjeff (May 25, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> To each, his own...I guess.



I will admit to enjoying the negotiation phase and getting up atleast once or twice and walking out of the dealership before I sign the purchase agreement


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## riverc0il (May 25, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I will admit to enjoying the negotiation phase and getting up atleast once or twice and walking out of the dealership before I sign the purchase agreement


I have always wanted to do that but have never been in a position to. My current car they already knocked down the stick 20% to move the car (that was a second knock down from 15% down to 20% when I was unsure on things) and our most recent combined car, S's car was shot, they had inspected it, and knew we were in a bit of a desperate situation (the car barely even made it to the dealership for inspection for trade in value).

No haggle is really cool if you don't want to worry about haggling. If you are good at haggling and do your research, you may save a few extra hundred bucks by haggling. If you don't enjoy and are not good at haggling and not good at doing research, you may pay a few extra bucks with a non-haggle dealership like Saturn but you may save a few hundred bucks by not being taken for sticker price at a regular dealership.

In reference to Saturn in particular, no one should avoid Saturn's specifically because of the no haggle. You just have to avoid new Saturn's. I have found they haggle quite a bit on their used models, especially if you catch them at the end of the month with a car that has been sitting on the lot for way too long.

All that said, having owned two Saturn's... they have been excellent but if I were buying a new car tomorrow, it would not be a Saturn. IMO, Saturn has really gone downhill. GMC took an interesting car company doing something different and redesigned it to look like everybody else. A big "whatever" to that. Saturn coupes and sedans have been getting 35 MPG since the company's inception. I don't think they have a car in their current line up that gets more than 30, including their hybrid. Not to mention the entire lineup looks fugly.


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I will admit to enjoying the negotiation phase and getting up atleast once or twice and walking out of the dealership before I sign the purchase agreement



I enjoy guys like you


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## drjeff (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I enjoy guys like you



Notice how I didn't say that it has actually done me anygood  

Actually the guy that owns the dealership where I buy my cars from (my wife's a different story) is a good friend(and patient) of mine, so he knows that if he screws me over, I'll hurt him the next time he's in my office    Actually the last time I bought a new car,  it was at year end,  and even though I was ready to take delivery on December 30th,  the wouldn't let me buy the car until January 2nd, since he knew that the financing rates that GMAC were offering at the time would have been 3.9% if I bought on December 30th,  but were going to drop to 0% after January 1st!  Saved me a bit of $$ by doing that.  Basically he told me that he wouldn't sell me the car before the 1st of the year and that when I found out the reason why that I'd be thanking him, and he was right.


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Notice how I didn't say that it has actually done me anygood
> 
> Actually the guy that owns the dealership where I buy my cars from (my wife's a different story) is a good friend(and patient) of mine, so he knows that if he screws me over, I'll hurt him the next time he's in my office    Actually the last time I bought a new car,  it was at year end,  and even though I was ready to take delivery on December 30th,  the wouldn't let me buy the car until January 2nd, since he knew that the financing rates that GMAC were offering at the time would have been 3.9% if I bought on December 30th,  but were going to drop to 0% after January 1st!  Saved me a bit of $$ by doing that.  Basically he told me that he wouldn't sell me the car before the 1st of the year and that when I found out the reason why that I'd be thanking him, and he was right.



Funny you say that because my dentist is a customer of ours too. I always know when he's ready for a new car, because the "pain" threats always come out. You know what, they work!!!!

Sounds like you've got a good dealer there.....actually, most are in todays market. Each customer is too important not to take the ALL serious.


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## wa-loaf (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Funny you say that because my dentist is a customer of ours too. I always know when he's ready for a new car, because the "pain" threats always come out. You know what, they work!!!!
> 
> Sounds like you've got a good dealer there.....actually, most are in todays market. Each customer is too important not to take the ALL serious.



What do you think of the edmunds quotes. do you usually give your best offer through those?  

When I bought my Outback, there were 4 subi dealers nearby, I got decent offers from all of them. But the best was about 2k below (listed) dealer invoice. I gave all the others a chance to beat it, but all I got was lame "we'll match it and throw in free tires for life". I went with the first best offer and was very happy with the dealer and their service. Anchor Subaru for anyone in the RI, SE Mass area. I'm sorry I've moved a little too far away to go there for service.


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## drjeff (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Funny you say that because my dentist is a customer of ours too. I always know when he's ready for a new car, because the "pain" threats always come out. You know what, they work!!!!
> 
> Sounds like you've got a good dealer there.....actually, most are in todays market. Each customer is too important not to take the ALL serious.



Aren't we all just trying to fight sterotypical images


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> What do you think of the edmunds quotes. do you usually give your best offer through those?
> 
> When I bought my Outback, there were 4 subi dealers nearby, I got decent offers from all of them. But the best was about 2k below (listed) dealer invoice. I gave all the others a chance to beat it, but all I got was lame "we'll match it and throw in free tires for life". I went with the first best offer and was very happy with the dealer and their service. Anchor Subaru for anyone in the RI, SE Mass area. I'm sorry I've moved a little too far away to go there for service.



Actually, Edmunds, KBB, Cars.com or any other 3rd psrt site have made (I feel) my job easier. When people know our cost, incentives etc. all that's left to negotiate is what is a fair proffit for us to make. Our internet dept pricing is $200.00 over invoice less all incentives. That pricing is aggressive in todays market and and excellent price for the service we provide our customers. If people ask for a better price we'll sell our dealership's services and kindly let them know there will be no hard feelings if they chose to purchase elsewhere. Very few people will "sell us down the road" for $100.00 bucks. There's an old saying that sales sells the first car and service sells the rest.


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Aren't we all just trying to fight sterotypical images



How true is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wa-loaf (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Actually, Edmunds, KBB, Cars.com or any other 3rd psrt site have made (I feel) my job easier. When people know our cost, incentives etc. all that's left to negotiate is what is a fair proffit for us to make. Our internet dept pricing is $200.00 over invoice less all incentives. That pricing is aggressive in todays market and and excellent price for the service we provide our customers. If people ask for a better price we'll sell our dealership's services and kindly let them know there will be no hard feelings if they chose to purchase elsewhere. Very few people will "sell us down the road" for $100.00 bucks. There's an old saying that sales sells the first car and service sells the rest.



Amazing what a little information will do. I'm sure buyers in most cases walk away much happier these days.


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Amazing what a little information will do. I'm sure buyers in most cases walk away much happier these days.



Absolutely!!!! There's nothing wrong with making a profit, and people want us to, but it just needs to be fair for everyone involved. Just wish more retail industry would put it out there for the public to see. Could you imagine if ski manufacturers had their pricing available???? You talk about profit, I'd love to make 200% or something crazy like that.


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## wa-loaf (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Absolutely!!!! There's nothing wrong with making a profit, and people want us to, but it just needs to be fair for everyone involved. Just wish more retail industry would put it out there for the public to see. Could you imagine if ski manufacturers had their pricing available???? You talk about profit, I'd love to make 200% or something crazy like that.



lol . . . Ski Market probably make more off of a $800 pair of skis than you do on $25,000 car. Maybe you should open up a ski shop on the side to boost the bottom line.


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> lol . . . Ski Market probably make more off of a $800 pair of skis than you do on $25,000 car. Maybe you should open up a ski shop on the side to boost the bottom line.



Percentage wise they most certainly do!!!!  I'll look into that ski shop idea though:lol:


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## dmc (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> There's an old saying that sales sells the first car and service sells the rest.



Yup..  A good service dept is paramount to the deal..
I asked to check out the one at the VW dealer I bought from...Met the manager...  Checked it out.. Nice operation.. I think...


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

dmc said:


> Yup..  A good service dept is paramount to the deal..
> I asked to check out the one at the VW dealer I bought from...Met the manager...  Checked it out.. Nice operation.. I think...



actually intro to service has become part of our sales process here. People need to know we have service loaners, that there's wireless in our waiting room, that we wash their car after every service. We get premium dollar/hr in our service dept., so people should get premium treatment.

I'm sure you have a good place where you're at---you can tell right away just on how a place looks and feels.


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## dmc (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> actually intro to service has become part of our sales process here. People need to know we have service loaners, that there's wireless in our waiting room, that we wash their car after every service. We get premium dollar/hr in our service dept., so people should get premium treatment.
> 
> I'm sure you have a good place where you're at---you can tell right away just on how a place looks and feels.



It's smaller then the Subaru dealer...  But it seemed clean..

they introduced me to some service guy - but i asked to go into the shop..


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## drjeff (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> actually intro to service has become part of our sales process here. People need to know we have service loaners, that *there's wireless in our waiting room,* that we wash their car after every service. We get premium dollar/hr in our service dept., so people should get premium treatment.
> 
> I'm sure you have a good place where you're at---you can tell right away just on how a place looks and feels.



I hope the wireless in your service area lounge (atleast that's what they call it at the dealership where I get the service done on my car) is less website restricted than where I go   I was in there about 3 weeks ago having some routine stuff done,  and when I went to fire up the laptop, practically the only websites that weren't moderator blocked were chevy.com and the dealership's own website  That was actually the only negative comment I had when the company that does followup consumer satisfaction monitoring called and asked me about my visit for service.  Here I was expecting to be able to do a little AZ surfing as my car was being taken care of, and because I was the third person in the customer lounge that AM,  I had lost control of the TV remote was stuck with _The View_ on the tube for an hour uke:


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## dmc (May 27, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I had lost control of the TV remote was stuck with _The View_ on the tube for an hour uke:



Wow... i think I'd rather watch a redneck tooth pullin' on youtube then the View...


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## andyzee (May 27, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Interesting. That's one of the reasons I wouldn't shop for a Saturn. I feel that, from the beginning, I'm being cut of of potential savings.


 
Same here


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## drjeff (May 27, 2008)

dmc said:


> Wow... i think I'd rather watch a redneck tooth pullin' on youtube then the View...



Believe me,  if I could have opened up the youtube website I would have! 

The chevrolet website was fun to play with for a few minutes, but the excitement of changing the colors of the vehicle in the "build your own" section wore off pretty quickly


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## campgottagopee (May 27, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I hope the wireless in your service area lounge (atleast that's what they call it at the dealership where I get the service done on my car) is less website restricted than where I go   I was in there about 3 weeks ago having some routine stuff done,  and when I went to fire up the laptop, practically the only websites that weren't moderator blocked were chevy.com and the dealership's own website  That was actually the only negative comment I had when the company that does followup consumer satisfaction monitoring called and asked me about my visit for service.  Here I was expecting to be able to do a little AZ surfing as my car was being taken care of, and because I was the third person in the customer lounge that AM,  I had lost control of the TV remote was stuck with _The View_ on the tube for an hour uke:



Ours is open, well, not like porn open, just open


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## mondeo (May 27, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Funny you say that because my dentist is a customer of ours too. I always know when he's ready for a new car, because the "pain" threats always come out. You know what, they work!!!!
> 
> Sounds like you've got a good dealer there.....actually, most are in todays market. Each customer is too important not to take the ALL serious.



I had a few dealers sorta brush me off when I was buying, and my brother had one brush him off.

I guess they expect 22 year old males asking to test drive STIs, Evos, and 350Zs to be just looking for a test drive, not to buy.


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## campgottagopee (May 28, 2008)

mondeo said:


> I had a few dealers sorta brush me off when I was buying, and my brother had one brush him off.
> 
> I guess they expect 22 year old males asking to test drive STIs, Evos, and 350Zs to be just looking for a test drive, not to buy.



That sucks, salesmenship is a lost art..............


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 28, 2008)

mondeo said:


> I had a few dealers sorta brush me off when I was buying, and my brother had one brush him off.
> 
> I guess they expect 22 year old males asking to test drive STIs, Evos, and 350Zs to be just looking for a test drive, not to buy.





campgottagopee said:


> That sucks, salesmenship is a lost art..............




Yeah, salesmenship probably is a lost art, but, with the point being to make sales, I can't really blame a salesman for brushing off a 22-year old looking to test drive (joy ride?) an STI, EVO or 350Z.  

It sucks, but wouldn't showing up with an older person/parent at that age make a difference if you're really looking to make a purchase?....The dealer will take you more seriously and neither person will feel like the other is just wasting their time.

Don't know too many 22-year olds that can buy new cars, let alone "the fast and the furious" cars....


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## campgottagopee (May 28, 2008)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Yeah, salesmenship probably is a lost art, but, with the point being to make sales, I can't really blame a salesman for brushing off a 22-year old looking to test drive (joy ride?) an STI, EVO or 350Z.
> 
> It sucks, but wouldn't showing up with an older person/parent at that age make a difference if you're really looking to make a purchase?....The dealer will take you more seriously and neither person will feel like the other is just wasting their time.
> 
> Don't know too many 22-year olds that can buy new cars, let alone "the fast and the furious" cars....



I understand why you think that and honestly 75% of the time you'd be correct. BUT it's that 25% where a salesperson will get a customer for life. Example: it's you senior year in college and your dad has told you pick a car out for your graduation present. You go from dealer to dealer looking at cool cars getting broomed by all the salespeople you meet except for one. One dude takes the time to show you the car, get to know you a little and just plain gives you customer service. Where do you think you'll by the car. I know where I would. In sales you can never, ever tell.


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## Warp Daddy (May 28, 2008)

One dude takes the time to show you the car said:
			
		

> Absolutely ON target  !   Treating folks really well  like THEY   are teh MOST  iimportant  person  in your life at teh moment - can pay HUGE  dividends ---Exemplary  Customer service like good human relations is CRITICAL to success


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 28, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> One dude takes the time to show you the car, get to know you a little and just plain gives you customer service. Where do you think you'll by the car. I know where I would. In sales you can never, ever tell.





Warp Daddy said:


> Absolutely ON target  !   Treating folks really well  like THEY   are teh MOST  iimportant  person  in your life at teh moment - can pay HUGE  dividends ---Exemplary  Customer service like good human relations is CRITICAL to success





Maybe, for products with short life cycles....

But, there's still the next four/five years with the car!  I'd say that informs the buyer's choice a lot more for the next car then whether the dealer was nice to him....

I guess I'm not really brand driven....I care more about my needs and what car matches my needs more than sticking with one brand/dealer just cause he/she was nice to me....

Then again, if I have a good experience, I will tell people about it....Maybe that's worth more to the dealer than thinking I might come back four to five years down the line....


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## campgottagopee (May 28, 2008)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Maybe, for products with short life cycles....
> 
> But, there's still the next four/five years with the car!  I'd say that informs the buyer's choice a lot more for the next car then whether the dealer was nice to him....
> 
> ...



MOst people aren't brand driven, they're people driven. People want to do biz with people they know and trust, nit because someone was nice to them. I've told EVERYONE of my salespeople that the easiest part of there job was selling the car, and that there true test would be when one of their customers has a problem. How they handle that call 2 minutes before closing where somone's car wont start, have locked keys in etc. If you say no prob, I'm on my way, people remember that. If they say, sorry we're closing (not only will they get fired) they will have lost that customer for life. In today's market too many dealers try and generate to much "new" traffic and don't spend enought time on the customers they already have.


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## Philpug (May 28, 2008)

So true, it is a people business. If sales training was simply chapters out of "How to win friends and Influence people" it could be a much better business. Unfortunately, 95% of the business (from the dealer principal on down) riun it for the rest, and frankly, it is just getting worse. If you are good and can get two or three dealers bidding against each other, it wil get ugly, but you will win jsut by them dropping their pants more and more,


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## deadheadskier (May 28, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> MOst people aren't brand driven, they're people driven. People want to do biz with people they know and trust, nit because someone was nice to them. I've told EVERYONE of my salespeople that the easiest part of there job was selling the car, and that there true test would be when one of their customers has a problem. How they handle that call 2 minutes before closing where somone's car wont start, have locked keys in etc. If you say no prob, I'm on my way, people remember that. If they say, sorry we're closing (not only will they get fired) they will have lost that customer for life. In today's market too many dealers try and generate to much "new" traffic and don't spend enought time on the customers they already have.



agreed

....at the end of the day, in sales, people buy from who they trust and who they like.  I have plenty of customers that buy from me even though they now they can get a better price on a product elsewhere.  I have even more potential customers who don't buy from me even though I can offer them a better price or product than a competitor.   The latter fact is because I'm going up against Reps who have been working the territory for years.  Relationships are everything in sales.


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## campgottagopee (May 29, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> So true, it is a people business. If sales training was simply chapters out of "How to win friends and Influence people" it could be a much better business. Unfortunately, 95% of the business (from the dealer principal on down) riun it for the rest, and frankly, it is just getting worse. If you are good and can get two or three dealers bidding against each other, it wil get ugly, but you will win jsut by them dropping their pants more and more,



I'm going to assume that at one point you were in automotive sales, or maybe still are. I fully understand where you are coming from, BUT with that outlook (if you're still selling) you're getting in your own way. Just hate to see salespeople with that kinda thought pattern. It will cost you money.


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## campgottagopee (May 29, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> agreed
> 
> ....at the end of the day, in sales, people buy from who they trust and who they like.  I have plenty of customers that buy from me even though they now they can get a better price on a product elsewhere.  I have even more potential customers who don't buy from me even though I can offer them a better price or product than a competitor.   The latter fact is because I'm going up against Reps who have been working the territory for years.  Relationships are everything in sales.



BINGO!!!!!!! People will pay more for good customer service, there truly is value in it and people know that.


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## Philpug (May 29, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I'm going to assume that at one point you were in automotive sales, or maybe still are. I fully understand where you are coming from, BUT with that outlook (if you're still selling) you're getting in your own way. Just hate to see salespeople with that kinda thought pattern. It will cost you money.



I was in the industry for 15 or so years. I had bad years and great years, mostly had to do with dealer's outlook vs. product. What I posted as a tactic was if I was to be a customer and was going to be as hardassed as possible looking for the last cent. Personally, I could not and would not do it that when i was to purchase and I really feel that there is more of a cost to a vehicle than just the price, I look for a relationship with the dealer if possible, If I need a favor on a warranty situation that could go either way, I want it to go my way and I don't want to be known as "that b-buster". Reading your posts here, i think we will agree on 99% of the way we do business. I will say that when I sold cars and saw my clients in the store or on the street, I held my head high and never had to run the other way because I "took advantage" of them.


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## campgottagopee (May 29, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> I was in the industry for 15 or so years. I had bad years and great years, mostly had to do with dealer's outlook vs. product. What I posted as a tactic was if I was to be a customer and was going to be as hardassed as possible looking for the last cent. Personally, I could not and would not do it that when i was to purchase and I really feel that there is more of a cost to a vehicle than just the price, I look for a relationship with the dealer if possible, If I need a favor on a warranty situation that could go either way, I want it to go my way and I don't want to be known as "that b-buster". Reading your posts here, i think we will agree on 99% of the way we do business. I will say that when I sold cars and saw my clients in the store or on the street, I held my head high and never had to run the other way because I "took advantage" of them.



Gotcha---15 years is a long time to invest in the industry to give it up---burn out??? I see it a lot. I've been at this for 18 yrs and see getting out anytime soon, it's in my blood. Was on floor for first 5, SM for the next 5 and now GSM w/ % for the past 8. One thing you pointed out is soooo true, good years, bad years, but isn't that true with everything??


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## Philpug (May 29, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Gotcha---15 years is a long time to invest in the industry to give it up---burn out??? I see it a lot. I've been at this for 18 yrs and see getting out anytime soon, it's in my blood. Was on floor for first 5, SM for the next 5 and now GSM w/ % for the past 8. One thing you pointed out is soooo true, good years, bad years, but isn't that true with everything??



absolutely. Quality of like was one of the reasons for change.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 29, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Gotcha---15 years is a long time to invest in the industry to give it up---burn out??? I see it a lot. I've been at this for 18 yrs and see getting out anytime soon, it's in my blood. Was on floor for first 5, SM for the next 5 and now GSM w/ % for the past 8. One thing you pointed out is soooo true, good years, bad years, but isn't that true with everything??




What kept me from selling cars was the long hours..all the dealers I know are working like 9-9 and Saturdays..that's alot..


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> What kept me from selling cars was the long hours..all the dealers I know are working like 9-9 and Saturdays..that's alot..



Hours are tough but that's just the nature of the beast in this biz. My guys/gals work a 5 day week, 2 x 8-8, 1 x 12-8, 1 x 8-6 and 1 x 8-5. It is a lot of hours but you need to make hay when the sun shines ifin ya know what I mean.


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## Philpug (May 30, 2008)

a good place will not burn you out. When I was selling Volvo's I hada  great schedule for 8 years. 
M3-9
T9-3
W12-9
T9-3
OFF
S9-5


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## tjf67 (May 30, 2008)

I have been in sales since 1991.  All the things you are talking about come out of the books.  If you are playing with the big boys it is assumed that your customer service is top notch or you would have never gotten there.  Pricing is everything.  I dont care if you are mother theresa they will walk out the door if they are going to get a better deal across the street.  They will do it in a professional way but don't kid yourself.  We are a commodity.  When sales people realize that it makes loosing good customers less personal.


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> I have been in sales since 1991.  All the things you are talking about come out of the books.  If you are playing with the big boys it is assumed that your customer service is top notch or you would have never gotten there.  Pricing is everything.  I dont care if you are mother theresa they will walk out the door if they are going to get a better deal across the street.  They will do it in a professional way but don't kid yourself.  We are a commodity.  When sales people realize that it makes loosing good customers less personal.



Sorry, ain't buyin that one---assuming good customer service??? Proof is in the pudding not in the assumtion. I see people pay more for equal products every day for excellent customer service.


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> a good place will not burn you out. When I was selling Volvo's I hada  great schedule for 8 years.
> M3-9
> T9-3
> W12-9
> ...




I'd say--waht a ciuntry club that place must have been:smile:


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## tjf67 (May 30, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Sorry, ain't buyin that one---assuming good customer service??? Proof is in the pudding not in the assumtion. I see people pay more for equal products every day for excellent customer service.



You sell to fleets?  
You may get away with it to the mom and pops but you are not going to get the big tickets with that that thought process. 
Who knows may be I am wrong but from exp. that is the norm.


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> You sell to fleets?
> You may get away with it to the mom and pops but you are not going to get the big tickets with that that thought process.
> Who knows may be I am wrong but from exp. that is the norm.



No fleets, well no BIG fleets just local biz buying 8-10 cars. The big boys (Hertz, Enterprise etc) go thru a fleet company who deal directly with the factory. As far as that level you are correct--those dudes don't worry about nor care about customer service. Kinda apple's and oranges though. Day to day dealership sales is very different.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 30, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> Hours are tough but that's just the nature of the beast in this biz. My guys/gals work a 5 day week, 2 x 8-8, 1 x 12-8, 1 x 8-6 and 1 x 8-5. It is a lot of hours but you need to make hay when the sun shines ifin ya know what I mean.



So 50 hours a week..I thought most car dealerships close at 9:00PM.  Is business slow now with the higher gas prices?


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> So 50 hours a week..I thought most car dealerships close at 9:00PM.  Is business slow now with the higher gas prices?



We're early risers so we shuter down at 8-----small cars are crankin right now---I've appraised more full size trucks & SUV's than I care to remember. Altima Hybrid is also hot right now.


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## noski (May 30, 2008)

*Ground Clearance*

We will be looking to purchase a new car in the summer of 09. I would really like a hybrid, but am slightly challenged with ground clearance. Other than Ford Escape Hybrid, are there some "comfortable" sedan type vehicles that have a ground clearance that would be amenable to the back dirt roads of the MRV? Mid/upper 20's is price range. 

I actually had pretty good luck when I owned a Ford Taurus- it had just enough clearance to climb thru the winter drifts and mud ruts with agressives snow tires and a fairly powerful V6.


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## Philpug (May 30, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> I'd say--waht a ciuntry club that place must have been:smile:



Yes it was and we were making good money too. My golf game was at its top.


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

I [Hart] Skiing said:


> Yes it was and we were making good money too. My golf game was at its top.



That's awesome----too bad those days are long gone or it would seem as they are.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 30, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> That's awesome----too bad those days are long gone or it would seem as they are.



So how much commision does an average dealer get on a 20k car???  $200...$400????  I have no idea..and do most get a draw against commission?


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## campgottagopee (May 30, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> So how much commision does an average dealer get on a 20k car???  $200...$400????  I have no idea..and do most get a draw against commission?



There are sooooooo many pay plans for auto sales it's impossible to answer that. If you want to know mine come apply for a job and I share it with you:smile:


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## Philpug (May 30, 2008)

campgottagopee said:


> That's awesome----too bad those days are long gone or it would seem as they are.



We had a helluva team there. A Salesforce that worked together and sold a ton of cars. We all made good money.


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