# East Coast One Ski Quiver Help



## Slow (Mar 4, 2013)

Now that my kids are getting up to speed and looking to ski all over on and off the mountain I am coming back to Alpine from Tele (where I spent the last decade).

I have done the homework and am running out of days to test the rest. I am hoping somebody who knows more about skis and ski construction can make something of my results to date. Here is what I have skied and what I think I thought. Unfortunately, I have not had multi-skis on the same day I have had to try skis on successive days and weekends so conditions varied. These are in order based upon when I skied them.

I am an Advanced/Expert skier who tends to like the smaller classic N.E. trails, bumps and woods/out-of-bounds. I do not hike for turns but can end up on some long run-outs/traverses in search of fresh lines. Favorite spots in order are: Burke, Mad River Glen, Stowe...the rest (probably would include Jay and Sundayriver in the rankings but haven't been to either in the last 20 years). I am 39, 5'11", 185# and active. Because this is N.E., and because I like to ski with my wife 50% of the times, while l like the woods, narrow trails, and secret staches, I end up carving nice big GS turns on groomers (which is why Burke beats out MRG) 50% of the time.

Nordica Steadfast (178: Skied them at Stowe in mid-January. Loved carving steep groomers (that's where the snow was and we lapped all day one day) with these. I even got a rare day when Nosedive was buffed out...the ski was AMAZING on that stuff at some crazy high speeds blasting through chopped up crud. I pointed, they went, no questions asked and no doubts. After skiing these, I thought all of these new (wide) skis were going to "crush" all over the mountain...I was wrong (more on that later)

There was not much snow so, the bumps were small and soft for the most part (so not a great test) but the ski seemed to respond "well". But, when the bumps were better formed I found I bounced out of a couple of lines I thought I had. I also found I ended up blasting out of the bumps (at speed) rather than really skiing them. Never caused a probelm but made me feel like I was not totally in control. Trees were thin and I only had a buddy for a couple or runs but, my impression was ok in the woods but I missed a couple of turns I thought I had and stuffed the tips a couple of times. To be clear, the bumps and trees issues (if this doesn't make sense based on based upon what you know about the ski and my other comments) may have also been because it was early in the season.

Rossignal Experience 88 (@175): Skied them at Loon in late January. All skiing was on the trails. Fine for slower speed quick/slalomy turns but, did not like them, at all, at speed on the groomers carving GS turns (felt like they just were not enough ski). They did not have any redeming qualities in the bumps (I could not get them around on my own terms. I had to turn them when they wanted to turn). Did not like them in the soft snow at the trail edges (tips wandered). Never got them in the trees.

KS Hardside (181): Skied them at Burke during my kids February vacation. They were the first 98 underfoot that I skied. When I first got on them I had some trouble on the groomers (the uphill ski kept climbing up the mountain on me) but, that seemed to subside over the days. I never liked them quite as much as the Steadfasts on the groomers but I did find a way to get along with them making GS turns; just never got them to really carve and scoot out of a turn at speed and, never developed the same fearless confidence that I could blast anything with them with no concerns.

But, I liked the size while still being able to get them around quick in the bumps and trees. By the end of the week I felt like a hero in the bumps and trees on them. One thing I am unsure of is, there was not enough snow for big, troughty, steep, bumps. So, if I started stuffing them into real bumps, I do not know what would happen. When I did ski I could get up on top and blast right down East Bowl. I would like to think that would continue as the bumps got bigger and fiercer but, I do not know, I worry it might become too much ski in the bumps (and might ski more like the Bonfide when the bumps got big...below).

Dynasatar Outland (172): Skied at Mad River Glen the last weekend in February. Did not like them. Did not like them on slalom turns (coudn't get them to accelerate out of turns), did not like them at speed (just didn't trust them), did not like them in GS turns (did not hold an edge well), did not like them in the bumps (couldn't get them to hold a line so I could get on top...they seemed to want to tell me when the turn), did not like them in the soft snow in the woods (stuffed and sunk them everywhere). Did not like them. 

But, had a great time because that mountain is great.

Blizzard Bonafide (180): Skied them at Sugrabush last weekend. I had done some reading and expected to jump on these and love them as something between the Steadfast and the Hardside (a lot of ski but great on piste too). On the lift up I told my wife they were demo/buy and, if I liked them, I might buy them. On the second lift up I said, nope not gonna happen.

They do not carve short/slalomy turns. They do not hold an edge well on big, hard, GS turns. I did not love them at speed as they seemed to wander and ski like much short skis (unlike both the Steadfast and the Hardside). In the bumps at first I did not love them. But, I put in some laps on the bumps and got them worked out. You have to ski them aggressively in the bumps. Really stuff them into the bump and flex out the front 1/2 of the ski or get your turns around very far and very quick when you get unweighted. Doing this gives you the speed control you need and allows you to pick your line. My problem is that I am too old to be this aggressive in the bumps. I am much happier sitting back a little and letting the quads do the work as I go across the tops in a nice controlled fashion. (but the bumps were big, well formed, and steep so my "having to work" may have been more a function of trail/conditions than skis).

Here is the dilema. I may get 2 more days. Any ski I still need to try based upon what I have said?

I clearly like the Steadfast and the Hardside but want that perfect ski that blends the two. Is it out there?

Would the Hell and Back ski like the Steadfast on mountain and the Hardside in the woods/bumps? Is there a Hardside equivalent that may ski like the Steadfast at speed and GS turns?

If someone told me more time on the Hardside and I would love it on mountain I would go for it. But, if I had one more day on anything I would go spend more time on the Steadfast in the woods and bumps to check my early impressions since I LOVED it at speed (was truly unreal how much I trusted that ski 3 runs in)


Thanks for your thoughts.


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 4, 2013)

Curious why you only seem to be looking at the newest model skis?

There is probably something made 2-5 years ago that fits the bill for you. You'd save a lot of money too.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 4, 2013)

One advantage with going new is the ability to demo, which is what the OP appears to be doing.

I've found it increasingly more difficult in the past 2-3 years to find decent "new" older model skis.  5-6 years ago it was relatively easy, but it seems like most manufacturers have really tightened up their inventories and there are fewer left overs.

OP - I have you tried the Rossi Experience 98?  I've heard much better reviews on that ski than the 88.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 4, 2013)

The best east coast one ski quiver I've thus far skied is the Line Prophet 90.  

 It's a great jack-of-all-trades ski, and I personally think 90 underfoot is a perfect east coast balance.


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## Blanton (Mar 4, 2013)

This sounds really similar to a lot of my friends that grew up on traditional skis and have looked at getting something new after being out of the game for quite some time.    Most skis now really cater to helping the intermediate skier make weak turns on groomed terrain.  What works for that is generally terrible for someone that knows how to carve a ski making different sized turns, hit bumps, trees, etc.

The few that have found a ski they are really happy with have ended up on the Blizzard Bushwacker.


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## Nick (Mar 4, 2013)

^A friend of mine demoed the Bushwackers at Sugarloaf during the AZ Summit (DJGlades!) and liked them a lot, subsequently purchasing them. 

He is in Breckenridge right now, actually. I'll be interested in hearing his take on the skis.


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## steamboat1 (Mar 4, 2013)

Surprised you didn't like the Dynastar Outland. I have the 80XT in 178 length & have been very happy with them. I'm about the same height & weight as the OP but almost 20 years older.


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## Cheese (Mar 4, 2013)

Powder - >100mm underfoot, soft, rockered tip and tail and >180cm in length (Pro: Great float and easy to turn.  Con: Challenging at speed on hard pack or ice)
Bumps - <80mm underfoot, soft and <170cm in length (Pro: Light and quick turning.  Con: Challenging at speed on hard pack or ice) 
Slalom = <80mm underfoot, stiff and <170cm in length (Pro: Quick turning on hard pack or ice.  Con: Challenging at speed on hard pack or ice)
Giant Slalom = <80mm underfoot, stiff and >180cm in length (Pro: Stable at speed on hard pack or ice.  Con: Challenging to turn quickly)

Above are the things you're trying to do and the ski types I feel are designed to do  it easily.  What you'll notice are differences in widths, stiffness and length for each category that just don't mix.  Honestly, I don't think you're going to find a ski that's quick and responsive on groomers, bumps and trees but is steady making larger GS turns at speed.  There are fundamental design differences there.  But, you're after an _All Mountain Ski_ so I'll just leave you with the categories and let you decide which is most important to you.


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## hippiechick (Mar 4, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> The best east coast one ski quiver I've thus far skied is the Line Prophet 90.
> 
> It's a great jack-of-all-trades ski, and I personally think 90 underfoot is a perfect east coast balance.



I'll second that.


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## wtcobb (Mar 4, 2013)

Line Prophet and Bushwackers were two models I was looking at before my new purchase a couple years ago. I'm a lightweight, so I went with Dynastar Legend 85s, but I would agree that 85-90 underfoot is perfect for east coast.


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## Gilligan (Mar 4, 2013)

I see a lot of Mantras and Kendos at Killington. To the OP, any reason why you did not test any Volkl's?


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## St. Bear (Mar 4, 2013)

I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but I love my Palmer Titanial All-Mountains.  89 underfoot, I think they really hit the sweet spot for the East Coast.  15" of chopped powder at Magic, 8" at Ragged, PP bumps at Wildcat and Cannon, they take it all like a champ.  The only condition I would rate as "below average" is frozen groomers, but I'll gladly take it for the performance in other areas.  Kind of hard to find, though.


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## yeggous (Mar 4, 2013)

You really need to decide what kind of conditions you want to focus on. You will not find a ski that holds a grips the bullet proof like a race skis and still has the float and forgiveness in the soft or choppy stuff.

I have Kastle MX78 that absolutely rail on the hard groomers. They hold to the bullet proof and love irresponsible amounts of speed. Get a cheater ski like this if you prioritize high speeds on ice. Blizzard Magnum, Rossi HP, Nordica Fire Arrow, etc.

I also have the Rossi Experience 88. No, it is not a GS ski. They are amazing in softer mixed snow. They are very agile, thrive in the crud, cut up snow, and spring conditions. Take a trip to Wildcat or Cannon when there is soft snow (heavier snow or yesterday's powder) and you will lots and lots of advanced skiers sporting E88s. I put these away when the snow is so hard I can't stick a pole in it, or gets more than ankle deep. Any ski with no metal and rocker tip and tail is purpose built for mixed snow and not hardpack. This is the ideal width for mid-season and spring conditions.

I have Nordica Enforcers which are like the Bonafide (lots of metal, 98 under foot). These are really hard charging skis. Want to straight line that chute or drop off that small cliff? This is the ski. Want to do icy groomers all day? Not the skis. I can't see having a ski this wide as my primary ski in New England. They really need to be driven hard on the hardpack.


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## andyzee (Mar 4, 2013)

yeggous said:


> You really need to decide what kind of conditions you want to focus on. You will not find a ski that holds a grips the bullet proof like a race skis and still has the float and forgiveness in the soft or choppy stuff.
> 
> I have Kastle MX78 that absolutely rail on the hard groomers. They hold to the bullet proof and love irresponsible amounts of speed. Get a cheater ski like this if you prioritize high speeds on ice. Blizzard Magnum, Rossi HP, Nordica Fire Arrow, etc.
> 
> ...




I love the Enforcers on just about anything. When it get really hard and icy I'll breakout my Jet Fuels, only cause they handle it better, but the Enforcers do an adequate job.


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## Slow (Mar 5, 2013)

Thank you everyone. A few responses

First person's question: yes, they are all relatively new skis because that is what I can demo. I would love to save the money and go a couple of years old but, I have learned through this demo season that skis that spec/sound similar can be vastly different.  The one thing I know for certain is I will have skied my next pair of skis before I buy them (off of the year before's/year end rack).

For the guy who speced out the ideals for each.  I understand and agree with your point but, am pretty well resigned to needing a one ski quiver All Mountain Ski and simply dealing with some of the shortcomings.  The 90 underfoot Nordica Steadfast was the best GS/High-Speed ski I have skied all season...bar none..it does not have metal and, by specs, it is not a "GS" ski (excpet the turn radius is long).  I am also happy to slide my tails rather than carve my turns when I shorten up my turns to slalom.

A friend has the Volkl Mantras and LOVES them (his second pair):  torsionally stiff with plenty of float and enough flex (for him) in the tip and tail.  I would have demoed them if I found the day to get them in the right size.  Reading on them (which I now only kinda listen to) I expect they ski a lot like the Blizzard Bonafide which prooved to be too stiff for my taste.  A lot of reviews of the Mantra say you need to get aggressive with them and dont be undersized (at 5'11" and 185# I am just big enough for their 180ish ski)

Line Prophet 90s were were really the only other ski than the Mantra's (and maybe the Hell & Back) on the list but I did not get the chance to demo them either.

Thank you for the Blizzard Bushwaker looks like it might line up well.


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## skiking4 (Mar 5, 2013)

How about Line Sir Francis Bacons?


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 5, 2013)

skiking4 said:


> How about Line Sir Francis Bacons?



For one-ski east coast?  

Those things are almost 110 underneath!


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## darent (Mar 5, 2013)

elan 888, volkl kendo- atomic TI crimson


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## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> For one-ski east coast?
> 
> Those things are almost 110 underneath!


but everything is better with bacon!


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## gmcunni (Mar 5, 2013)

i too am (was??) in search of the perfect single ski for east coast .  did a bunch of demos last spring @ okemo 

my short list was:
Atomic Alibi
Line Blend
Blizzard Bushwacker

but i think i'd give a lot of consideration to the blizz bonifide instead of the bushwacker as it is wider.


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## HowieT2 (Mar 5, 2013)

Ive been on the line prophet 90's for 4 seasons and love them.  Btw- i am 5'11" 185.  They are coming to the end (have about 160 days on them) so i demo'd the sir francis bacon last week.  I liked them as well. I felt that they were really lively and wanted to play.  The bumps were soft so i was able to navigate them.
 If i were to get the prophets again it will be the 98's but that is because i am looking for a little more float in the powder whereas on the groomers i dont need help.
i plan on trying the blizzard bonafide and volkl mantra.  I would try the kastle's as they are supposed to be great but they are almost double the price of the others.


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## Edd (Mar 5, 2013)

I was using the Hardside as a one ski quiver 2 years ago.  I was enjoying them very much.  My season got cut in half due to injury and, partly because I had a trust issue with the bindings I picked up Kendos last year and now have nearly 2 full seasons on them. 

I put the Hardsides back in service last week and skied them 3 days. Today I tried the Kendos again and my personal preference in your situation (50% groomers) would be something like the Kendo. It's got an 88 waist and now comes with tip rocker and it kills it on the groomed and its a blast for me on the ungroomed. Mine is the fully cambered version so I can only assume the tip rocker would improve the ungroomed performance. 

For a ski with a 98 waist I think the Hardsides are a decent one ski quiver but last year, when there was no snow, I was really glad to be on the Kendos.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 6, 2013)

Go West for experience.


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## buellski (Mar 6, 2013)

I'm on my second season with the Blizzard Bonafides as my primary ski.  I was all set to buy the Nordica Soul Riders last year until I tried the Blizzards.  I like the Blizzards so much that, at the beginning of this season, I sold a pair of Volkl P60 slalom race stock skis I had kept for days when the snow was firm.  The reason I sold them was because it seemed like every day I had to pick a ski, I always picked the Blizzards, regardless of conditions.  

_In my opinion_, I have found the Blizzards hold an edge well in all but the iciest conditions.  I'm not saying they'll carve like a race ski on ice, but they will on just about anything else. Part of that is keeping the edges sharp (I'm fairly fanatical about it).  In soft or crud snow, they are phenomenal.  Like the OP said, they are a lot of work in the bumps.  My only complaint is the top sheets are garbage.  A small nick usually results in that area of the top sheet pulling away and requiring epoxy to fix.

Having said all that, I am thinking about buying a more groomer-oriented ski.  Primarily because I'm a gear whore :razz:


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## gmcunni (Mar 6, 2013)

buellski said:


> My only complaint is the top sheets are garbage.  A small nick usually results in that area of the top sheet pulling away and requiring epoxy to fix.



i hate this, i had pair of volkls that behaved similarly.  i know the topsheet is meaningless but you'd think after spending several hundred $$ that something you bought would at least look decent.  with all the advances in ski tech you think they'd know how to keep a topsheet from needing repairs.


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## timm (Mar 6, 2013)

I like Bonafides, considering adding a pair for my "powder day skis" but for me they are a little too fat and a little too uneasy on ice and hard snow for a one ski quiver for the East Coast. My current quiver of one is the Blizzard Magnum 8.1. 8.1s are very good on hard snow and ice, good on soft (as long as not too deep), very stable, I'm very happy with them. The Magnum 8.0 (no 8.1 for this model year) or 8.5 would either be a great choice in my opinion.


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## timm (Mar 6, 2013)

Volkl RTM 84s would be a nice choice too.


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## drjeff (Mar 6, 2013)

The reality is that for what the typical Eastern skier experiences on most days for the types of terrain that most ski, the 1 ski quiver for best results should be no more than the mid 80's underfoot, with a turn radius in the upper teens and a bit of tip rocker. That set up will keep the typical Eastern skier happy on the type of terrain and conditions that we experience more days than not. And on those softer days, you'll still solid performance

And frankly given the very solid offerings from most manufacturers these days, specific brands and/or models of skis don't really matter too much as they might of in the past as there are plenty of quality offerings in that genre of ski today


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## deadheadskier (Mar 6, 2013)

drjeff said:


> The reality is that for what the typical Eastern skier experiences on most days for the types of terrain that most ski, the 1 ski quiver for best results should be no more than the mid 80's underfoot, with a turn radius in the upper teens and a bit of tip rocker. That set up will keep the typical Eastern skier happy on the type of terrain and conditions that we experience more days than not. And on those softer days, you'll still solid performance
> 
> And frankly given the very solid offerings from most manufacturers these days, specific brands and/or models of skis don't really matter too much as they might of in the past as there are plenty of quality offerings in that genre of ski today


That was my rational in going with my Fischer Motive 84s last season especially knowing I would be skiing very little at areas averaging 250+ inches of snow for a few seasons.  80% of the time I'm happy with them.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 6, 2013)

I love my Dynadstar skis, they became rock skis this year because if fun exploring, still great ski.


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## mikestaple (Mar 6, 2013)

Line Prophet 90s.  Love them on and off piste.    Really good in crud.


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## gmcunni (Mar 6, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I love my Dynadstar skis, they became rock skis this year because if fun exploring, still great ski.


which dynastar do you have?


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## ScottySkis (Mar 6, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> which dynastar do you have?



You think a p-t person like me would remember that me to, anyone seen by brand of ski I forget, their only 400 new three years ago. Became rock skis 3 months ago, but still using them in all snow conditions.
Legend, sitting next to them in car now.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 6, 2013)

mikestaple said:


> Line Prophet 90s.  Love them on and off piste. *   Really good in crud*.



Have to agree.  Very confidence inspiring.


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## skiking4 (Mar 6, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> For one-ski east coast?
> 
> Those things are almost 110 underneath!



I was wondering what the response was for suggesting that.
Rumors and reviews say the Sir Francis Bacons skis great in hardpack and holds an edge extremely well. Very playful ski too.
I'll probably get it next season, to make a 3 ski quiver consisting of Volkl slalom skis for pure groomers/bumps/ice, Rock skis in my shitty K2 Apache Raiders, and soft snow and all around skis in Line Sir Francis Bacons.


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## Terry (Mar 7, 2013)

You should try the line prophet 98's. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how well  they ski on hardpack, and moguls. I have the prophet 100's which is the same ski only older and solomon xt800s and go to the lines 98% of the time. If I could have only 1 pair it would be the lines. PS. I demoed the 98s this season just to see how bad my 100s have gotten and was surprised that my 100's still ski pretty well even though they have well over 200-250  days on them. If you get forward on them, they will carve some awesome turns even on very firm snow. Just gotta learn to trust that they will hold.


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## Cheese (Mar 7, 2013)

Terry said:


> You should try the line prophet 98's. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how well  they ski on hardpack, and moguls.



They advertise early rise and a soft tip for easy float.  On hard pack you want a tip that's stiff and always pressing hard (traditional camber) into the ice.  If the tip is rising early or is soft enough to bounce, it's lost it's ability to keep the edge in the snow.

A mogul ski will be ~165cm in length with a 65mm waist.  The line would probably be in the 180cm length and they're 98mm at the waist.  A mogul ski is also soft (foam core) and the Line advertises a stiff tail for turn finish.  I'm going to assume that they'll get through the moguls if you can keep the wide stiff tail in check but this is not even close to the tool for zip lining at 2-3 moguls per second.

I'm sure it's a great powder, crud and tree ski but it's design doesn't match the models for ice or moguls. IMO


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 7, 2013)

Cheese said:


> A mogul ski will be ~165cm in length with a 65mm waist.  *The line would probably be in the 180cm length and they're 98mm at the waist. * A mogul ski is also soft (foam core) and the Line advertises a stiff tail for turn finish.  I'm going to assume that they'll get through the moguls if you can keep the wide stiff tail in check but this is not even close to the tool for zip lining at 2-3 moguls per second.
> *
> I'm sure it's a great powder, crud and tree ski but it's design doesn't match the models for ice or moguls. *



I have Line Prophet 90s, and while they're my recommendation for an all-mountain ski, if there is one area where they dont shine, it's moguls.  They're 179s, and okay in moguls, but not at home.   IMO I do not believe there is such a thing as an all-mountain ski that is TRULY a great all-mountain ski and is TRULY great in moguls, regardless of ski manufacturer marketing spiel.

Give up length, give up stability.  Increase length, decrease quick turnability. Decrease underfoot/sa, decrease float.  Increase underfoot/sa, decrease ice hold and side2side, etc....etc...etc.... 

 Everything is a tradeoff.


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## timm (Mar 7, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> IMO I do not believe there is such a thing as an all-mountain ski that is TRULY a great all-mountain ski and is TRULY great in moguls, regardless of ski manufacturer marketing spiel.
> 
> Give up length, give up stability.  Increase length, decrease quick turnability. Decrease underfoot/sa, decrease float.  Increase underfoot/sa, decrease ice hold and side2side, etc....etc...etc....
> 
> Everything is a tradeoff.



Agreed -- every ski is about compromise. "All Mountain" is just looking for the least compromise across the board, biased towards what you are most likely to encounter on a daily basis.


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## Glenn (Mar 7, 2013)

Demo the following: 

Volkl Kendo (I love em)
Line Prophet 90
Blizzard Bushwhacker
Rosignol Experience 88 

That was my shortlist. 

I don't care what anyone says: 100mm+ banana skis aren't good unless you're skiing in a decent amount of fresh. Snow guns do not count as "fresh". 

:lol:


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## timm (Mar 7, 2013)

I found the Bushwacker to be much too soft for a full time east coast ski. Especially if, as the original poster said he would be spending at least 50% of his time on trail. Different strokes though, ymmv.


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## mister moose (Mar 7, 2013)

Slow said:


> I am an Advanced/Expert skier who tends to like the smaller classic N.E. trails, bumps and woods/out-of-bounds.



You  might not like what I'm going to say, but if you are truly an advanced/expert, and all mountain ski just is going to be limiting you, and your fun.

This is spring, and with it, sales.  This is also the east coast.  True powder days are limited.  I say start with a pure frontside ski, or a bump ski for the spring.  Add to the quiver as you can.  Add the back country ski next fall before Columbus Day.  Feed the addiction.  Stalk Ebay, Evo, Steap & Cheap, ski shops.  I'm skiing an over cut sub 12m slalom ski, a barely mid fat bump/day after the snowfall ski, a 100mm burly powder ski, a worn mid fat powder thin cover ski, and a stiff stable Super G/ Skiercross ski.   I'll never go back to an "all mountain ski".  I hate over 90 mm frontside.  Nothing turns faster and carves like a rail under your foot like 66mm.  And in the spring above 50 degrees I don't want to be on anything under 85mm.  You're lookng for perfection in one ski.  Find it in several skis.  Skis are not women, they don't care if you have several at once.


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## Blanton (Mar 8, 2013)

Cheese said:


> They advertise early rise and a soft tip for easy float.  On hard pack you want a tip that's stiff and always pressing hard (traditional camber) into the ice.  If the tip is rising early or is soft enough to bounce, it's lost it's ability to keep the edge in the snow.
> 
> A mogul ski will be ~165cm in length with a 65mm waist.  The line would probably be in the 180cm length and they're 98mm at the waist.  A mogul ski is also soft (foam core) and the Line advertises a stiff tail for turn finish.  I'm going to assume that they'll get through the moguls if you can keep the wide stiff tail in check but this is not even close to the tool for zip lining at 2-3 moguls per second.
> 
> I'm sure it's a great powder, crud and tree ski but it's design doesn't match the models for ice or moguls. IMO



Hart, Volkl, Dynastar, IDone, K2 mogul skis all use wood cores because they are stiffer and more durable than foam.  About the only adult mogul ski I can think of from the last 10 years that used foam was the Rossignol Mogul Exhibition. The non Lab 1080s were foam but that is going back really far.


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## St. Bear (Mar 8, 2013)

mister moose said:


> You might not like what I'm going to say, but if you are truly an advanced/expert, and all mountain ski just is going to be limiting you, and your fun.
> 
> This is spring, and with it, sales. This is also the east coast. True powder days are limited. I say start with a pure frontside ski, or a bump ski for the spring. Add to the quiver as you can. Add the back country ski next fall before Columbus Day. Feed the addiction. Stalk Ebay, Evo, Steap & Cheap, ski shops. I'm skiing an over cut sub 12m slalom ski, a barely mid fat bump/day after the snowfall ski, a 100mm burly powder ski, a worn mid fat powder thin cover ski, and a stiff stable Super G/ Skiercross ski. I'll never go back to an "all mountain ski". I hate over 90 mm frontside. Nothing turns faster and carves like a rail under your foot like 66mm. And in the spring above 50 degrees I don't want to be on anything under 85mm. You're lookng for perfection in one ski. Find it in several skis. Skis are not women, they don't care if you have several at once.



I don't necessarily disagree with you, but most of us can't drop a few hundred dollars every few months on skis.  Or, if we can, then we wouldn't be able to afford to actually go out and use the ski.

There's a reason why the "All-Mountain" or "Quiver-of-One" ski is so successfully marketed, and it's because I'll take performance trade offs all day long if it means saving hundreds of dollars.  and I know I'm not alone in my thinking.


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## mister moose (Mar 8, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with you, but most of us can't drop a few hundred dollars every few months on skis. Or, if we can, then we wouldn't be able to afford to actually go out and use the ski.
> 
> There's a reason why the "All-Mountain" or "Quiver-of-One" ski is so successfully marketed, and it's because I'll take performance trade offs all day long if it means saving hundreds of dollars. and I know I'm not alone in my thinking.




I understand budget constraints.  With some patience and persistence though I still say you can get 2 pairs good skis for  the price of this year's model.  There are ways to save money on every aspect of skiing, and skis are no different.  Recent very lightly used is an alternative as well.  If you talk yourself into demoing all the latest stuff until you find your 'perfect ski', you will then have to pay the price that perfect new ski commands, plus all those demo fees.  'Perfect' might be related to the day you demoed the ski, not just the ski itself.

I have had a lot of different skis strapped to my feet, and I have enjoyed most of them.  I only had to sell 2 pairs over the years because they just weren't working for me, and got about what I paid for them.

Each to his own.  Just know that there are alternatives.


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## vinnyv11 (Mar 8, 2013)

Tough season to buy feels like everywhere's inventories are ridiculously low.


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## Gilligan (Mar 8, 2013)

mister moose said:


> I understand budget constraints.  With some patience and persistence though I still say you can get 2 pairs good skis for  the price of this year's model.  There are ways to save money on every aspect of skiing, and skis are no different.  Recent very lightly used is an alternative as well.  If you talk yourself into demoing all the latest stuff until you find your 'perfect ski', you will then have to pay the price that perfect new ski commands, plus all those demo fees.  'Perfect' might be related to the day you demoed the ski, not just the ski itself.
> 
> I have had a lot of different skis strapped to my feet, and I have enjoyed most of them.  I only had to sell 2 pairs over the years because they just weren't working for me, and got about what I paid for them.
> 
> Each to his own.  Just know that there are alternatives.


Not just the conditions of the day, but also how a ski is tuned can make a difference. A slight increase in base bevel can make a hooky ski slide through the bumps much better. A sharper edge on any ski will make it grip better on the hard stuff. Even a different length of the same ski can make a bigger difference than switching models.


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## goldsbar (Mar 8, 2013)

Cheese said:


> Powder - >100mm underfoot, soft, rockered tip and tail and >180cm in length (Pro: Great float and easy to turn.  Con: Challenging at speed on hard pack or ice)
> Bumps - <80mm underfoot, soft and <170cm in length (Pro: Light and quick turning.  Con: Challenging at speed on hard pack or ice)
> Slalom = <80mm underfoot, stiff and <170cm in length (Pro: Quick turning on hard pack or ice.  Con: Challenging at speed on hard pack or ice)
> Giant Slalom = <80mm underfoot, stiff and >180cm in length (Pro: Stable at speed on hard pack or ice.  Con: Challenging to turn quickly)
> ...



Perfect answer.  OP, if you're truly advanced/expert, there's no way a one ski quiver will satisfy you completely.  GS turns?  Dynastar Speed Course Ti.  Knee deep straighlining in Utah?  Salomon Rocker 2 115mm.  Slalom turns?  One of the multitudes of SL skis.  Personally, off piste I like a medium-soft flex wider ski with rocker.  On piste, medium-hard flex traditional camber and narrow.  That's not even getting into sidecut for GS vs SL.  The one ski quiver skis are fairly amazing at deliving 80% of everything.  If you really love skiing, that missing 20% will eventually really bother you.


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## Gilligan (Mar 9, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> Perfect answer.  OP, if you're truly advanced/expert, there's no way a one ski quiver will satisfy you completely.  GS turns?  Dynastar Speed Course Ti.  Knee deep straighlining in Utah?  Salomon Rocker 2 115mm.  Slalom turns?  One of the multitudes of SL skis.  Personally, off piste I like a medium-soft flex wider ski with rocker.  On piste, medium-hard flex traditional camber and narrow.  That's not even getting into sidecut for GS vs SL.  The one ski quiver skis are fairly amazing at deliving 80% of everything.  If you really love skiing, that missing 20% will eventually really bother you.


I do understand your point. However, this is the East. In one run I am likely to encounter a steep, icy headwall, gnarly bumps, maybe duck into the trees for some pow, then long GS turns on the groomed runout back to the chair. You cannot change skis mid run. I want the ski that comes closest to doing it all.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 9, 2013)

Dyanstar legend ,great ski.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 10, 2013)

mister moose said:


> I understand budget constraints.  With some patience and persistence though I still say you can get 2 pairs good skis for  the price of this year's model.  There are ways to save money on every aspect of skiing, and skis are no different.  Recent very lightly used is an alternative



Agree 100%.

 I don't know that I'll ever buy a "new" pair of skis again. I just don't see the point.  Let someone else drive it off the lot and depreciate it 50%.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 10, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> The one ski quiver skis are fairly amazing at deliving 80% of everything.*  If you really love skiing, that missing 20% will eventually really bother you*.



Agree 100%.  

My "All Mountain" ski is a Fischer Motive 84.  It's a great ski for me 80% of the time, but only because of where I live and primarily ski - New Hampshire at lower natural snowfall ski areas where I spend a lot of my time railing groomers. I bought these because of the reality of the conditions I ski most of the time, not the dream reality of the conditions I'd like to be skiing most of the time. The times I do get to ski Powder or Bumps, I'm definitely not thrilled with the Motive 84's performance. 

For me, a true quiver of one All Mountain ski doesn't exist.  I'm intrigued to try something like the Line Prophet 90 or 100; or the Nordica Hell and Back as they get such high reviews as do anything skis, but I doubt I'd like them so much that I'd trade in my quiver for that one ski.  I'm sure they are great skis, but I doubt they'd match the race ski like performance I get out of my Fischer's on the groomers.  They definitely couldn't touch the mogul performance of my 70mm Rossi BXs I bought 6 years ago as a bump specific ski for only $200 new.  I also doubt with at least the Line 90s that I'd be thrilled with the skis Powder Performance.  I have a 92 waisted ski (High Society Free Rides) and they somewhat collect dust. I bought them 3 years ago and I probably only have a dozen days on them. They're not a bad ski, they're better than the Fischer's in Powder, Spring Corn and surprisingly bumps for sure, but anything over 6-8 inches of fresh or if the snow is heavy; I'm taking out my 110mm Rossi Powder skis I bought 13 years ago for dirt cheap.

I've always been a big proponent of having multiple pairs of skis for different conditions; even back in the skinny skis days.  Throughout the 90s I always had a 200cm GS ski and a 190cm Bump ski.  In 2000 I got my first Powder ski, the one mentioned prior.  After buying that ski, my second ski became my "All Mountain" ski and I'm on my 3rd pair of "All Mountain skis" since that time. Since that time I've bought bumps specific skis on the cheap as well as the High Societies.  Barring catastrophic damage, most well built skis are good to go for 100-150 days on the hill.  Hence why I'm still skiing 13 year old Powder skis and I'm sure I'll still be skiing my bumps skis that I only bring out a few days a year, ten years from now.  The Fischer's will last me a good 5 years.  Next purchase will be new Powder skis or perhaps used new Powder skis as I only get 3-5 Powder days on average a season, so it doesn't make much sense to invest big money in something new.  I like the dimensions of a 183cm Armada TST for an East Coast pow ski.


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## timm (Mar 10, 2013)

Watch out, once you give up on a OSQ, you'll find there's more and more niches you'd like to fill haha.

Hell and Back is on my potential list too along with the narrower one in that line, the Steadfast. Seems like being a bit softer (and floating better) they could be a potential OSQ...for days I spend in the wood or softer bumped up runs ha.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 10, 2013)

Just ski on one foot in the morning, eat health breakfast. Every day egg , then kiss your kids and family. Go to work if you can. Try the West. Enjoy life. Ski ,snowboarding. Say hi to Roxbury hills more sick terrain to come.


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## St. Bear (Mar 10, 2013)

goldsbar said:


> Perfect answer.  OP, if you're truly advanced/expert, there's no way a one ski quiver will satisfy you completely.  GS turns?  Dynastar Speed Course Ti.  Knee deep straighlining in Utah?  Salomon Rocker 2 115mm.  Slalom turns?  One of the multitudes of SL skis.  Personally, off piste I like a medium-soft flex wider ski with rocker.  On piste, medium-hard flex traditional camber and narrow.  That's not even getting into sidecut for GS vs SL.  The one ski quiver skis are fairly amazing at deliving 80% of everything.  If you really love skiing, that missing 20% will eventually really bother you.



My skis are 89mm underfoot, and perform great in bumps, crud, and carveable groomers.  I was even impressed with their performance at Magic with 15" of fresh.  The only condition they don't do well in is icy or frozen groomers, but I really don't care if I'm skidding in those conditions.  I guess I just don't love skiing as much as the rest of you guys.



Gilligan said:


> I do understand your point. However, this is the East. In one run I am likely to encounter a steep, icy headwall, gnarly bumps, maybe duck into the trees for some pow, then long GS turns on the groomed runout back to the chair. You cannot change skis mid run. I want the ski that comes closest to doing it all.


100% this.


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## Gunny J (Mar 10, 2013)

Gilligan you just described  the near perfect day in the east that you usually get.


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## 57stevey (Mar 10, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> My "All Mountain" ski is a Fischer Motive 84.  It's a great ski for me 80% of the time, but only because of where I live and primarily ski - New Hampshire at lower natural snowfall ski areas where I spend a lot of my time railing groomers. I bought these because of the reality of the conditions I ski most of the time, not the dream reality of the conditions I'd like to be skiing most of the time. The times I do get to ski Powder or Bumps, I'm definitely not thrilled with the Motive 84's performance.
> 
> For me, a true quiver of one All Mountain ski doesn't exist.  I'm intrigued to try something like the Line Prophet 90 or 100; or the Nordica Hell and Back as they get such high reviews as do anything skis, but I doubt I'd like them so much that I'd trade in my quiver for that one ski.  I'm sure they are great skis, but I doubt they'd match the race ski like performance I get out of my Fischer's on the groomers.  They definitely couldn't touch the mogul performance of my 70mm Rossi BXs I bought 6 years ago as a bump specific ski for only $200 new.  I also doubt with at least the Line 90s that I'd be thrilled with the skis Powder Performance.  I have a 92 waisted ski (High Society Free Rides) and they somewhat collect dust. I bought them 3 years ago and I probably only have a dozen days on them. They're not a bad ski, they're better than the Fischer's in Powder, Spring Corn and surprisingly bumps for sure, but anything over 6-8 inches of fresh or if the snow is heavy; I'm taking out my 110mm Rossi Powder skis I bought 13 years ago for dirt cheap.



What is this 110 Rossi of which you speak? I'm on the lookout for a cheap, nimble, surfy fat ski, but have no idea what might have fit that bill in years past...
,


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## deadheadskier (Mar 10, 2013)

Axioms.


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## KD7000 (Mar 10, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> However, this is the East. In one run I am likely to encounter a steep, icy headwall, gnarly bumps, maybe duck into the trees for some pow, then long GS turns on the groomed runout back to the chair. You cannot change skis mid run. I want the ski that comes closest to doing it all.


This is so true... I've never had a good day that didn't encompass multiple different conditions.  I'm a one-ski quiver person; probably because I don't really ski that much.  I keep considering becoming a multiple-snowboard owner, but then I know that whichever board I choose for a specific trip, I will have some regrets.  And I don't really want to deal with dragging multiple boards out every time I go somewhere.

Not only that, the $300-$600 another board would cost will buy an awful lot of gas and lift tickets.  This holds true for skis as well.

I'm happy with a quiver of one snowboard, one set of dh skis, and one set of XC BC skis.


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## goldsbar (Mar 10, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I do understand your point. However, this is the East. In one run I am likely to encounter a steep, icy headwall, gnarly bumps, maybe duck into the trees for some pow, then long GS turns on the groomed runout back to the chair. You cannot change skis mid run. I want the ski that comes closest to doing it all.



That's what you think!  I have a spoof picture from Ski Magazine from the 60s/70s(?) I found on Epicski where they have a guy with a ski caddy.  I can't upload it as the picture is the wrong size or something like that.

Fair point, though.


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## Cheese (Mar 11, 2013)

Blanton said:


> Hart, Volkl, Dynastar, IDone, K2 mogul skis all use wood cores because they are stiffer and more durable than foam.  About the only adult mogul ski I can think of from the last 10 years that used foam was the Rossignol Mogul Exhibition. The non Lab 1080s were foam but that is going back really far.



Very true and thanks for correcting this for the OP.


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## Rambo (Mar 11, 2013)




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## yeggous (Mar 11, 2013)

SUV Steve said:


> What is this 110 Rossi of which you speak? I'm on the lookout for a cheap, nimble, surfy fat ski, but have no idea what might have fit that bill in years past...
> ,



Cheap, nimble, surfy, fat...

Honestly one ski comes to mind... Salomon BBR.

I demoed them for a day at Heavenly. I will admit they were fun.

Proctor Jones in Nashua has them on clearance for cheap.


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## Cheese (Mar 11, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I do understand your point. However, this is the East. In one run I am likely to encounter a steep, icy headwall, gnarly bumps, maybe duck into the trees for some pow, then long GS turns on the groomed runout back to the chair. You cannot change skis mid run.* I want the ski that comes closest to doing it all*.



I think your statement above is absolutely what an "All Mountain" ski is designed to do.  As others have stated, something which will handle 80% of what you'll run into on any given day.

On the other hand, I'd argue that the true weapon of choice would be for that remaining 20%.  A ski designed more for the hardest terrain one will encounter during any given day.  Something designed specifically to handle that icy head wall and gnarly bumps.  It would then be up to the skier to sort of fake the remaining 80% of easier conditions of the day on what could be considered the wrong tool for the job.


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## 57stevey (Mar 11, 2013)

yeggous said:


> Cheap, nimble, surfy, fat...
> 
> Honestly one ski comes to mind... Salomon BBR.
> 
> ...



Hmmm, thanks. I should have probably said "super cheap" (aka used or NOS) but, I will be at a demo day hopefully on Weds, I will see if I can find some to take for a spin.


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## D-2.5-GT (Mar 11, 2013)

Already been recommended. ..but Prophet 90s. 

I just bought last years model af a discount and they are great....just what I was looking for.


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## vinnyv11 (Mar 11, 2013)

D-2.5-GT said:


> Already been recommended. ..but Prophet 90s.
> 
> I just bought last years model af a discount and they are great....just what I was looking for.



I'm looking at the prophet 98's now.  Glad to hear you love the 90's.


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## gmcunni (Mar 11, 2013)

i'm going to shoot for a ~98 mm 1 ski quiver, probably the bonafide or Line prophet 98.  BUT i'll keep my 84mm nordicas around just in case


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## Terry (Mar 11, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> i'm going to shoot for a ~98 mm 1 ski quiver, probably the bonafide or Line prophet 98. BUT i'll keep my 84mm nordicas around just in case


Go with the Lines. You won't regret it!


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## WWF-VT (Mar 11, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Just ski on one foot in the morning, eat health breakfast. Every day egg , then kiss your kids and family. Go to work if you can. Try the West. Enjoy life. Ski ,snowboarding. Say hi to Roxbury hills more sick terrain to come.



This is the best advice so far in this thread


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## gmcunni (Mar 11, 2013)

Terry said:


> Go with the Lines. You won't regret it!


i skied the blends last winter and liked them but when i did the side by side spec comparison on lines' web site i noticed the blends were mounted a bit forward.  i think i'd prefer the more traditional mount point on the prophet.


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## Morwax (Mar 12, 2013)

Fat skis are over rated for NE skiing. Im back to Atomic sl11m consumer slalom race skis and use them everywhere. The fats stay on the rack unless it dumps.


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## ScottySkis (Mar 12, 2013)

Next subject please rocker skis for riding lots of riding.:beer:


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## yeggous (Mar 12, 2013)

Morwax said:


> Fat skis are over rated for NE skiing. Im back to Atomic sl11m consumer slalom race skis and use them everywhere. The fats stay on the rack unless it dumps.



Define fat? I see no need to something 120 underfoot with full rocker, but I am a huge fan of 88 underfoot with rocker tip and tail. Midfats are very fun and useful in soft snow. I usually ski my carvers from the start of the season until the snow guns turn off in January. From that point to the end of the season it is all my midfats as natural snow and spring conditions soften up surfaces. The big guns only come out on sick days.


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## gmcunni (Mar 13, 2013)

new 2013 atomic theory prices are dropping, at least at local shop here in ct. $399 for the ski is a pretty nice price.

http://suburbanskiandbike.com/Atomic-Theory-2013-168cm-AA0024384168/


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## o3jeff (Mar 13, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> new 2013 atomic theory prices are dropping, at least at local shop here in ct. $399 for the ski is a pretty nice price.
> 
> http://suburbanskiandbike.com/Atomic-Theory-2013-168cm-AA0024384168/



Better buy before they run out of your size!


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## Morwax (Mar 13, 2013)

yeggous said:


> Define fat? I see no need to something 120 underfoot with full rocker, but I am a huge fan of 88 underfoot with rocker tip and tail. Midfats are very fun and useful in soft snow. I usually ski my carvers from the start of the season until the snow guns turn off in January. From that point to the end of the season it is all my midfats as natural snow and spring conditions soften up surfaces. The big guns only come out on sick days.


 I do the same and  go to an 88 when the snow is falling mid season. Back on the frontside skis now and see no need for all that surface tension. I think the fat skis are more of a status symbol like somehow your going to be skiing blower down the backside when there is nothing in the woods. They look more like clown shoes to me all the time. lol


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## gmcunni (Mar 21, 2013)

probably a bit west coast biased but some of the skis i was looking at are in the list

http://starthaus.com/wordpress/2012/12/20/all-mountain-ski-showdown-the-big-comparisson/


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## 4aprice (Mar 21, 2013)

timm said:


> Volkl RTM 84s would be a nice choice too.



This is the best ski that I have demo'ed.  Think I'd go with the 176 though I skied the 181.  Closest to my Atomic Metron 9's which I love but they no longer make.  Now If I could only find a pair.  One of my sons coaches is a rep and he told me they fly off the racks.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## St. Bear (Mar 21, 2013)

This is fun to read through:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/13283-How-wide-are-your-skis-underfoot

I'd like to hear from some of the people who posted in this thread.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 21, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> This is fun to read through:
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/13283-How-wide-are-your-skis-underfoot
> 
> *I'd like to hear from some of the people who posted in this thread*.



Wow, that was a pretty remarkable read in that it was only 6 years ago, and most people were on 60s/70s underfoot.  Some were on 80s, but even that's "tame" now, and there were comparatively few on 90s.


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## St. Bear (Mar 21, 2013)

It's like watching a show from the 80s on Nick at Nite.

I like the references to "fat skis" that are 85 or 90.


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## The Sneak (Mar 22, 2013)

I am still on 2008 Prophet 90s. I have been trying out various newer skis and have yet to find something I like better overall. The closest thus far are the Libtech Wreckreates. I demo'd those @ Brighton UT a few weeks ago and they were lots of fun.


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## cc1 (Mar 26, 2013)

Steadfast review is accurate. I tried the 178cm but thought too long for the trees/tighter bumps stuff. They will buck you around in the bumps and irregular terrain of trees. Try the K2 Rictor at 80mm, next year will be 82mm and they will make a 90mm Rictor, nice flex on the 80mm Rictor for more versatility yet no problem holding on icy icy bumps and firm groomers.


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## St. Bear (Mar 26, 2013)

My brother just bought his EC one ski quiver today at Zimmerman's in Nashua, NH.  Line Blends.  A little wide at 100 underfoot, but he almost couldn't pass it up at $350.


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## Savemeasammy (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm late to the party on this one, but I thought I'd throw in my .02.  I'm 41, 5'9, 160ish.  I just got back into skiing after a 15 or so year hiatus.   I ski pretty aggressively, and I love bumps.  I demoed a few skis on the advice of a ski shop (atomic blackeyes and k2 impacts).  I liked both for their super easy turning qualities, but they fell short in the bumps.  They just felt clumsy to me (and I definitely did not like the flaired up tail on the blackeyes - it was a penalty when I got in the back seat in the bumps...).

Not to get too long winded....  I did some research and ended up buying Hart F17 classics.  They are a mogul ski, but with slightly wider cut so it can also be used as an all mountain ski (so to speak).  103-66-89 175's.  I like them everywhere, and I find they can make whatever kind of turn I want - short turns (which is my m.o.), or big super G turns.  I like them well enough in powder, and they are great in the woods because they turn quickly.  I also find they seem easier to skid than the other skis I tried (this sometimes comes in handy in the bumps!).  The only weakness I found so far was in crud and frozen corn.  My guess is that the tips are a bit  soft for these conditions.

For what it's worth, if anyone out there is in the market for skis, Hart is blowing out the rest of their skis on the cheap!  I actually spoke with their ceo on the phone yesterday (about a chipping issue), and not only did he talk to me for almost a half hour about their skis and skiing in general, but he also sold me a pair of skis for my boy.  He even took my credit card info and such rather than passing me off to someone else.  I thought it was pretty cool that he would take the time to speak to a customer personally.  He told me if I knew of anyone who was in the market for skis to pass along the fact that they are selling them cheap (about what they charge to dealers).


There is no doubt about it, there sure is a hell of a lot out there to choose from!


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## catsup948 (Apr 5, 2013)

180 Volkl Explosiv Buddah edition! Circa 2003. 95mm waist pretty much no side cut.  Bomber ski. Best east coast ski ever! Skis are stiff as hell, so they rail groomers, destroy crud, float well in east coast powder.  Mine are dead now though after 600+ plus days on them. I don't know what I can replace them with.  I have a pair of 187 High Society free rides great for powder and touring in Vermont but they just don't cut it on groomers nor do I really need them in Massachusetts.  

Volkl made a massive mistake in getting rid of this ski 10 years ago.  Mantras are fun but they don't near have the same hero factor as the Exploders!


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## xwhaler (Apr 5, 2013)

catsup948 said:


> 180 Volkl Explosiv Buddah edition! Circa 2003. 95mm waist pretty much no side cut.  Bomber ski. Best east coast ski ever! Skis are stiff as hell, so they rail groomers, destroy crud, float well in east coast powder.  Mine are dead now though after 600+ plus days on them. I don't know what I can replace them with.  I have a pair of 187 High Society free rides great for powder and touring in Vermont but they just don't cut it on groomers nor do I really need them in Massachusetts.
> 
> Volkl made a massive mistake in getting rid of this ski 10 years ago.  Mantras are fun but they don't near have the same hero factor as the Exploders!



Jamie, pick up a pair of Surface Watch Lifes as I did on the cheap...I think you will enjoy them...they are stiff like you like em 
-Chris


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## jrmagic (Apr 5, 2013)

catsup948 said:


> 180 Volkl Explosiv Buddah edition! Circa 2003. 95mm waist pretty much no side cut.  Bomber ski. Best east coast ski ever! Skis are stiff as hell, so they rail groomers, destroy crud, float well in east coast powder.  Mine are dead now though after 600+ plus days on them. I don't know what I can replace them with.  I have a pair of 187 High Society free rides great for powder and touring in Vermont but they just don't cut it on groomers nor do I really need them in Massachusetts.
> 
> Volkl made a massive mistake in getting rid of this ski 10 years ago.  Mantras are fun but they don't near have the same hero factor as the Exploders!



I see Exploders up for sale often enough on boards with lots of trade though admittedly this time of year is tough.


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