# Miscellaneous Discussions



## andyzee (May 23, 2008)

Just bring all your discussions here, all these subjects are giving me a headache.


Signs that say "quiet" and yo-yos on strings
Ride on the carousel, grab the brass rings
Aches that I feel on my window pane
Rolled-up umbrellas are out in the rain
Boxes thhat herald:"Please stand in a line"
Tarzans are riding on the 6:20 vine
Mostly I end up with egg on my face
I can´t keep the bulbs lit in my fireplace


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (May 23, 2008)

Oh Man..I guess Andy wants alot to read after he buys his $37 Ahi Tuna..lol


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## andyzee (May 23, 2008)

I didn´t really steal the tricycle from my grandmother
It followed me home


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## Greg (May 23, 2008)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/miscellaneous-discussions/


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## snowmonster (May 23, 2008)

In Hawaiian, ahi is the word for tuna. So, ahi tuna is actually redundant.


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## andyzee (May 23, 2008)

Just got back from:







The ahi tuna was only $24.95, but I had the swordfish casino, very tasy. The best!



When I´m riding my little red tricycle
Why do people always stop and ask me
"Why must you ride on that little red tricycle?
Act your age, you know you´re forty-three."


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## ckofer (May 23, 2008)

snowmonster said:


> In Hawaiian, ahi is the word for tuna. So, ahi tuna is actually redundant.



So is PIN number.


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## andyzee (May 23, 2008)

ckofer said:


> So is PIN number.


 
ATM machine
climb up



Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.


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## Mildcat (May 23, 2008)

Vin #


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## andyzee (May 23, 2008)

End result


Why is abbreviation such a long word?


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## mondeo (May 23, 2008)

Here they come to snuff the rooster.


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## andyzee (May 23, 2008)

Puff the magic dragon.


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## dmc (May 24, 2008)

Nova in Spanish means doesn't go...  Car didn't sell so well there


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## dmc (May 24, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Puff the magic dragon.




the land of Hanalei is supposed to be in Hawaii


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## wa-loaf (May 24, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Puff the magic dragon.



HR Puffnstuf


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## mondeo (May 24, 2008)

dmc said:


> Nova in Spanish means doesn't go...  Car didn't sell so well there



Buick Lacrosse - Lacrosse in Quebecois slang means a couple different things, one being swindle and the other involving, uh, loving thyself, so they shipped it under the name Allure in Canada.


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## andyzee (May 24, 2008)

Yugo, no go.



What big eyes you have
We take hula dancing class
Horsey wears a skirt of grass
I'm so glad that he's my friend
Eenie meenie miney mo


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## Warp Daddy (May 24, 2008)

mailman


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## andyzee (May 24, 2008)

Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of checks





When you die
You stop drinking beer
When you die
You stop being here
When you die some people cry
When you die we say goodbye


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## andyzee (May 24, 2008)

So went and brought my grill today:








I got this at Lowes, where I also found some good coupons for. I'll post the link for them later.


Fat and docile, big and dumb
They look so stupid, they aren't much fun
Cows aren't fun 
They eat to grow, grow to die
Die to be eat at the hamburger fry
Cows well done


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## ckofer (May 24, 2008)

Good compost is where you find it.


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## drjeff (May 24, 2008)

ckofer said:


> Good compost is where you find it.



Picked that up at Lowe's too


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## wa-loaf (May 24, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Picked that up at Lowe's too



One of the local dairies sells "aged" manure for cheap. $5 for a 50lb bag.


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## drjeff (May 24, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> One of the local dairies sells "aged" manure for cheap. $5 for a 50lb bag.



Does it get better like a fine single malt scotch??


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## wa-loaf (May 24, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Does it get better like a fine single malt scotch??



I guess 2 years is ideal. Too crappy otherwise.


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## andyzee (May 24, 2008)

I used these at Lowes, pretty good coupons. 


This one if for 10% off puchase upto to $5000, took about 4 days before they emailed to me: http://www.lowesmoving.com/

This one if for $10 off purchase of $25 or more, got it immediately: http://www.lifetakesvisa.com/?id=lawn_editorial2& I used both of them today.



Knocked over a tractor and ran for the door
Six gallons of gas flowed out on the floor
Run cows run!


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## drjeff (May 24, 2008)

I'm really likeing the fact that a brand new Lowes just opened up about 2 weeks ago less than 5 miles from my house.  Prior to this opening it was a good 25-30 miles ride to the nearest Lowe's/Home Depot.


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## ckofer (May 26, 2008)

I'm enjoying how several people that I have met now treat HD as the underdog when Lowe's comes to town.


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## drjeff (May 27, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I guess 2 years is ideal. Too crappy otherwise.



Believe me I know!  One of the "benefits" of living about 1/2 mile as the bird flys from a dairy farm  uke:


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## andyzee (Nov 19, 2008)

Getting cold out there


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Getting cold out there



This has to be one of the most random bumps in a while AZ.  Almost makes some of the token GSS bumps look normal


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## andyzee (Nov 20, 2008)

drjeff said:


> This has to be one of the most random bumps in a while AZ.  Almost makes some of the token GSS bumps look normal



Boring night :lol:


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Boring night :lol:



Okay, you're given post whore thread bumpage immunity then


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## andyzee (Nov 20, 2008)

Gas $1.77 last night, I'll report back later on today's price.


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## ctenidae (Nov 20, 2008)

It's snowing in Greenwich.


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> It's snowing in Greenwich.



It's NOT snowing in the other corner of CT, Putnam


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## Warp Daddy (Nov 20, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Gas $1.77 last night, I'll report back later on today's price.



Nice price we're still @ $2.19


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## koreshot (Nov 20, 2008)

The earth is only 6,000 years old.... tops.


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

koreshot said:


> The earth is only 6,000 years old.... tops.



They're just really LLLLLOOOOONNNNNGGGGG years


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

If nothing sticks to teflon, how does teflon stick to the pan???


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## ctenidae (Nov 20, 2008)

Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?


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## severine (Nov 20, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Gas $1.77 last night, I'll report back later on today's price.


$1.969 here @ cheapest place in town. Never thought I'd see that again in my lifetime...


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## Beetlenut (Nov 20, 2008)

2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of two)


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

Why to mountain bike TR's turn into WAY longer threads than ski TR's?????


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## andyzee (Nov 20, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?


 

Steven Wright or George Carlin?


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## andyzee (Nov 20, 2008)

Gas $1.75 when I left for work this morning. There is one gas station that typically comes in cheaper at the end of the day. Will report when I get home.


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## noski (Nov 20, 2008)

Why does the post office deliver mail right to your door for free, but you have to pay them to pick it up at their location yourself? Shouldn't that be the other way around?


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## Beetlenut (Nov 20, 2008)

What does "it" mean in the sentence "What time is it?"?


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## hardline (Nov 20, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Gas $1.77 last night, I'll report back later on today's price.



a 1.60 i filled my tank up for a 20. i think we are going to hit 1.50 before christmass crazy.


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## MrsG (Nov 20, 2008)

$2.14 here in Vermont .  .  . crazy . . .


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## ctenidae (Nov 20, 2008)

Why does Mississippi have 4 s's, 4i's, 2 p's, but only one M?


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## MrsG (Nov 20, 2008)

MrsG said:


> $2.14 here in Vermont .  .  . crazy . . .



Forgot to mention - it was only $1.87 at exit 24 on Route 91 in MA


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## MrsG (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh, and, do you break for ski racks


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## andyzee (Nov 20, 2008)

MrsG said:


> Oh, and, do you break for ski racks



? :???:


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## andyzee (Nov 20, 2008)

Only dropped to $1.74 today, I'm sure by tomorrow it'll be 1.70 or less. How low will it go?


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## MrsG (Nov 20, 2008)

andyzee said:


> ? :???:



. . . thinking it was a po-lice-man


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## drjeff (Nov 20, 2008)

MrsG said:


> . . . thinking it was a po-lice-man



No ticket no-foul!


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## wa-loaf (Nov 20, 2008)

Waffles


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 21, 2008)

1.91 down here near the resorts, 1.80 in the ghetto


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## andyzee (Nov 22, 2008)

$1.67 How low will it go?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Nov 23, 2008)

andyzee said:


> $1.67 How low will it go?



Gas is rediculously cheap..I drove home from Hunter on like 15 bucks worth of gas..lol


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## drjeff (Nov 23, 2008)

I filled up today in Greenfield, Mass for $1.85!  A full tank of gas and drinks and snacks for me and my daughter for under $30!


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## Philpug (Nov 23, 2008)

What happens to the people that bought Chrysler products based on getting 2.99 a gal? Do they still pay that?


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## drjeff (Nov 23, 2008)

Philpug said:


> What happens to the people that bought Chrysler products based on getting 2.99 a gal? Do they still pay that?



Chrysler going out of business in the near future may have the ultimate say in the question


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## andyzee (Nov 24, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Chrysler going out of business in the near future may have the ultimate say in the question



And GM and Ford, and Citi, and ...... We're doomed, doomed I tell you! 

Repent Sinners! The sky is falling!

All we can do now is drink and ski!

  :beer:


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## ctenidae (Nov 24, 2008)

Philpug said:


> What happens to the people that bought Chrysler products based on getting 2.99 a gal? Do they still pay that?



My wife and I were discussing that very same thing. One has to wonder.

I'm not sure, but I think they gave you a credit card of sorts. I'm guessing Chrysler is very happy with recent price movements, especially if it helped them sell any cars.


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## drjeff (Nov 24, 2008)

I realized last night as I was brushing my teeth that the sound that my Oral B electric toothbrush makes is almost identical to the sound that the fan guns make at Mount Snow


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## andyzee (Nov 24, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I realized last night as I was brushing my teeth that the sound that my Oral B electric toothbrush makes is almost identical to the sound that the fan guns make at Mount Snow


 

You don't see snow falling, do you?


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## drjeff (Nov 24, 2008)

andyzee said:


> You don't see snow falling, do you?




Nope, pretty sure it was just splatter from the toothpaste


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## andyzee (Nov 24, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Nope, pretty sure it was just splatter from the toothpaste



I would have recommended Head and Shoulders.


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2008)

andyzee said:


> I would have recommended Head and Shoulders.



Thanks Andy, but I think I'll stick with Colgate Total on my toothbrush instead of Head and Shoulders


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## andyzee (Nov 27, 2008)

1334


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## Dr Skimeister (Nov 27, 2008)

70 days


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## Geoff (Nov 27, 2008)

I want my $2 dollars


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## andyzee (Nov 27, 2008)

Next time


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Nov 27, 2008)

Geoff said:


> I want my $2 dollars



Better off Dead is a great movie..I own it!!!


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## andyzee (Nov 27, 2008)

I own a "copy" of Beetlejuice!


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## andyzee (Dec 2, 2008)

$1.60 for unleaded today


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## drjeff (Dec 2, 2008)

Cleaning up water soaked, moldy drywall is now officially called "microbial remmediation"


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## andyzee (Dec 2, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Cleaning up water soaked, moldy drywall is now officially called "microbial remmediation"



Sounds right, would you call it anything else?


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

Blue is my favorite color, but red is hot.


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

Walnuts are great, but just not in chocolate chip cookies


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## WJenness (Dec 3, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Walnuts are great, but just not in chocolate chip cookies



+1

WALNUTS RUIN CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES!

-w


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## wa-loaf (Dec 3, 2008)

WJenness said:


> +1
> 
> WALNUTS RUIN CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES!
> 
> -w



And brownies. I prefer my brownies nut free.


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 3, 2008)

all BROWNIES  are nut free


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

Some brownies may cause people to act nutty.


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> all BROWNIES  are nut free




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## severine (Dec 3, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Walnuts are great, but just not in chocolate chip cookies





WJenness said:


> +1
> 
> WALNUTS RUIN CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES!
> 
> -w





wa-loaf said:


> And brownies. I prefer my brownies nut free.


:blink: What is wrong with you people????? :blink:

Guess I know who won't be eating my cookies in the future... I think it's a waste to bake chocolate chip cookies without nuts...


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 3, 2008)

severine said:


> :blink: What is wrong with you people????? :blink:
> 
> Guess I know who won't be eating my cookies in the future... I think it's a waste to bake chocolate chip cookies without nuts...



I'll eat them Carrie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!---------------- MMMMM""MMMMM  cookies  -- want cooki now !


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

severine said:


> :blink: What is wrong with you people????? :blink:
> 
> Guess I know who won't be eating my cookies in the future... I think it's a waste to bake chocolate chip cookies without nuts...



Trust me, in my line of work I see WWWAAAYYY too many "nut trauma" accidents!  Smooth and creamy is the way in my book!


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## wa-loaf (Dec 3, 2008)

I do prefer chunky peanut butter over creamy.


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

From time to time I've been accused of being nuts


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## wa-loaf (Dec 3, 2008)

andyzee said:


> From time to time I've been accused of being nuts



Accused? More like well documented! :lol:


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I do prefer chunky peanut butter over creamy.



Once again, I'm a fan of the smooth and creamy.  Heck, I don't even like my bagels toasted!   What can I say, I have "crunch" issues


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## severine (Dec 3, 2008)

:blink: There is something wrong with you people...

drjeff - I go the other way: I hate mushy foods for the most part. Oatmeal makes me gag.

That's okay... more cookies for everyone else then.


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

severine said:


> :blink: There is something wrong with you people...
> 
> drjeff - I go the other way: I hate mushy foods for the most part. Oatmeal makes me gag.
> 
> That's okay... more cookies for everyone else then.



Heck, I've been known to "fondle" a wrapped cookie or a loaf of bread at a store before I buy it to make sure it's not over done(ready as crunchy  )  Like I've said, I have crunch issues.  For some people its a texture thing, for me it's a crunch thing!  

As pathetic as it is, even the sound of someone biting into a raw carrot to me is worse then fingernails scraping on a chalkboard to me  But then again I don't have issues with the sound of a dental drill    

Issues,  yup, I've got them


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## ctenidae (Dec 3, 2008)

Inflation in Hungary in July 1946 hit an annualized rate of 1.49X10^13%, meaning prices doubled avery 13.5 hours. That's 41.9 quintillion percent.

Highest inflation rate ever recorded.


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Inflation in Hungary in July 1946 hit an annualized rate of 1.49X10^13%, meaning prices doubled avery 13.5 hours. That's 41.9 quintillion percent.
> 
> Highest inflation rate ever recorded.


 
WOW, unfreakingbelieavable!


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Inflation in Hungary in July 1946 hit an annualized rate of 1.49X10^13%, meaning prices doubled avery 13.5 hours. That's 41.9 quintillion percent.
> 
> Highest inflation rate ever recorded.





andyzee said:


> WOW, unfreakingbelieavable!



That rate of inflation increase was just barely faster than the increase in the rate of items that Andy was adding for his annual 2 day tuckerman ravine trip last season 

http://forums.alpinezone.com/24347-...pril.html?highlight=tuckerman+ravine+day+trip

 :lol:


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

drjeff said:


> That rate of inflation increase was just barely faster than the increase in the rate of items that Andy was adding for his annual 2 day tuckerman ravine trip last season
> 
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/24347-...pril.html?highlight=tuckerman+ravine+day+trip
> 
> :lol:


 

WOW. I'm honored, I have a stalker! :lol:


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

I got nothing.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 3, 2008)

I got nuts!


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

For once in my life, NONE of the 15 stands of outdoor Christmas lights I put up tonight had any bulbs out!


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

drjeff said:


> For once in my life, NONE of the 15 stands of outdoor Christmas lights I put up tonight had any bulbs out!




Congratulations!


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## andyzee (Dec 3, 2008)

It was a valiant effort and short lived reprieve, but 40,000 + pounds of nuts, couldn't rescue Jericho.  http://www.nutsonline.com/jericho


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## drjeff (Dec 3, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Congratulations!



Thanks.  I figure I have about a .00001% chance now of all the lights working when i put the Christmas tree up soon


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## andyzee (Dec 4, 2008)

Regular unleaded $1.58 today. Cost me $17 to fill up my Corolla


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## drjeff (Dec 4, 2008)

Diet Pepsi was on sale at my local supermarket this morning for 89 cents for a 2 liter bottle.  Cost me less than 10 bucks to fill up the cabinet in the kitchen at work with a weeks supply for the office (8 bottles)


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 4, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Diet Pepsi was on sale at my local supermarket this morning for 89 cents for a 2 liter bottle.  Cost me less than 10 bucks to fill up the cabinet in the kitchen at work with a weeks supply for the office (8 bottles)



A little planned obsolescence for patient's  after their appt  for dental work there doc --LMAO


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## severine (Dec 4, 2008)

Sort of like how my dentist has a huge bowl of hard candy on the way out the door. :lol: My dentist, BTW, likes to have a drink at the end of the day. My father has joined him a few times and chit-chatted.


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## drjeff (Dec 4, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> A little planned obsolescence for patient's  after their appt  for dental work there doc --LMAO



Nope, just the weekly cold caffeine need it takes to keep the office staff running   We keep a few beers and a couple of bottles of booze in the office for patient post visit needs   :beer:


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## drjeff (Dec 4, 2008)

severine said:


> Sort of like how my dentist has a huge bowl of hard candy on the way out the door. :lol: My dentist, BTW, likes to have a drink at the end of the day. My father has joined him a few times and chit-chatted.



The hard candy is a great one!   I see on average atleast one broken tooth a month that was due to one's favorite hard candy of choice


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## andyzee (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm leaving the office now. Will check gas price on the way home. I"ll report back it there is a change.


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## ctenidae (Dec 4, 2008)

Human chromosomes come in pairs, but bananas have 3 sets of each. Strawberries have 8. I guess that's why the seeds get stuck in your teeth.


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## andyzee (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm home now, no change.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 4, 2008)

Snow


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## drjeff (Dec 5, 2008)

My toes are cold this morning


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## billski (Dec 5, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Just got back from:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Were you in Pittsburgh?  I ate at the M&S there in October.
(why don't you put your location under your avatar?? )


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## andyzee (Dec 5, 2008)

Nope, it was in Jersey. Location is under my avatar, home  That happens to be in north jersey


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## andyzee (Dec 5, 2008)

1.57 for gas this morning.


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## drjeff (Dec 5, 2008)

My toes are finally warming up


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## andyzee (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm going to buy gas for my SUV when it gets a bit warmer. Need it to go to Hunter tomorrow


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## andyzee (Dec 5, 2008)

Wife is forcing me to run out and buy a Mega Millions ticket, just realize it's 146 million.


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## severine (Dec 5, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Wife is forcing me to run out and buy a Mega Millions ticket, just realize it's 146 million.


You'll remember us, right?


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## andyzee (Dec 5, 2008)

severine said:


> You'll remember us, right?



Of course!


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## andyzee (Dec 6, 2008)

Got impatient and purchased gas this morning at $1.55. I say impatient, cause late in the day it was $1.53  How low will it go?


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 7, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Got impatient and purchased gas this morning at $1.55. I say impatient, cause late in the day it was $1.53  How low will it go?



Sawn article yesterday some are now  predicting UNDER a dollar


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## Schneehund (Dec 7, 2008)

I'll believe it when I see it


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 7, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> Sawn article yesterday some are now  predicting UNDER a dollar



Same here..my empty light went on yesterday and I filled up for $19..amazing..


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## andyzee (Dec 7, 2008)

$1.51 a few blocks away from me today. I just hope it doesn't go so low that we won't be able to afford it.


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## andyzee (Dec 9, 2008)

So finally got a room through Priceline.com. Best Western in Rutland, VT  For this weekedn $50 a night, regular price $99. Thanks Capt. Kirk.


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## severine (Dec 9, 2008)

$1.70/gal for gas yesterday.


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2008)

I paid $1.69 on the MASS PIKE outside of Springfield yesterday for gas!

Also, the MASS DOT is out to get us both North and Southbound on I-91 just South of Northampton with the bridge construction lane splits they put in both ways last week


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## WJenness (Dec 9, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> Sawn article yesterday some are now  predicting UNDER a dollar



Probably the same guys that were predicting we'd be paying $6/gal now when they were doing their predicting last year...

It seems to me that their long term predictions are as useful as the crack-u-weather 15 day forecast is for the weather on that 15th day (unless of course they're forecasting for San Diego... without looking I'll guess 68 and partly cloudy).

-w


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## billski (Dec 9, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I paid $1.69 on the MASS PIKE outside of Springfield yesterday for gas!
> 
> Also, the MASS DOT is out to get us both North and Southbound on I-91 just South of Northampton with the bridge construction lane splits they put in both ways last week



the pike is under price control (at least informally) now.  There was a big ho-haw about the literal highway robbery prices a couple years ago.  They agreed to be near par pricing with the region.  The argument of the cost of being open 7x24 didn't hold water.


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## billski (Dec 9, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> Sawn article yesterday some are now  predicting UNDER a dollar



they will do anything to sell papers....:argue:


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## andyzee (Dec 9, 2008)

WJenness said:


> Probably the same guys that were predicting we'd be paying $6/gal now when they were doing their predicting last year...
> 
> It seems to me that their long term predictions are as useful as the crack-u-weather 15 day forecast is for the weather on that 15th day (unless of course they're forecasting for San Diego... without looking I'll guess 68 and partly cloudy).
> 
> -w




Once again, I want a job as an "expert". I can guess with the worst of em.


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2008)

billski said:


> the pike is under price control (at least informally) now.  There was a big ho-haw about the literal highway robbery prices a couple years ago.  They agreed to be near par pricing with the region.  The argument of the cost of being open 7x24 didn't hold water.



No complaints from me about that!  Much easier just to quickly get off at a rest area, fill the cars tank, empty my tank, grab a quick munchie from the convienence store and be on my way without having to deal with any traffic lights!


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## billski (Dec 9, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Once again, I want a job as an "expert". I can guess with the worst of em.


  the only diff between you and they is that they get paid to guess :smile:
Look, I'll give you a nickle when I see you and you can give me the forecast.  Now that you're paid, you're a "professional" too.

My daughter has been refereeing since since she was about 13 and paid to do it, thus she's a professional referee too!


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## andyzee (Dec 9, 2008)

billski said:


> Look, I'll give you a nickle when I see you and you can give me the forecast.  Now that you're paid, you're a "professional" too.



Deal, I might be able to use that "experience" as a jump start to a whole new career!


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## andyzee (Dec 9, 2008)

$1.49, hard to believe that just a few months ago these same stations were selling regular for $3.85


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2008)

Local TV news this AM had an analyst on that was seriously talking about $1 a gallon gas!

I had a patient in yesterday who does deliveries/service for an oil company and he was saying that basically the only people complainng now were the handfull of folks that locked in back in July   Although he did say that his company was suspending those lock in contracts as of December 31st and those people that locked in would be paying whatever the going rate on delivery day is.


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## billski (Dec 10, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Local TV news this AM had an analyst on that was seriously talking about $1 a gallon gas!
> 
> I had a patient in yesterday who does deliveries/service for an oil company and he was saying that basically the only people complainng now were the handfull of folks that locked in back in July   Although he did say that his company was suspending those lock in contracts as of December 31st and those people that locked in would be paying whatever the going rate on delivery day is.



Glad I didn't lock in on home heating prices last year.  In the summer I wished I had.  Now I'm glad I didn't.  This is almost as much fun as skiing in the rain.


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## severine (Dec 10, 2008)

$1.68/gallon yesterday. Same station where it got up aruond $4.35/gallon this past summer. Crazy.


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## andyzee (Dec 11, 2008)

Today the Saudis are supposed to cut oil production, yet this morning the price fell to $1.45 by me. Last time Opec cut production, believe it was about the Sept/Oct time frame, prices went into a downward spiral. Hoping for the same.   Let them eat sand!


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 11, 2008)

a. Last time Opec cut production said:


> +1
> 
> plus lets up our game selling them any agricultural output and factor our prices up twice any friggin increase those "sand dancers " put on their damn oil


----------



## ctenidae (Dec 11, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Today the Saudis are supposed to cut oil production, yet this morning the price fell to $1.45 by me. Last time Opec cut production, believe it was about the Sept/Oct time frame, prices went into a downward spiral. Hoping for the same.   Let them eat sand!



Realizing, of course, that when oil prices drop, revenues for oil producing countries drops, which means gov't spending in those countries drops, which means social services and such drops, which makes locals angry. They're not angry at their gov't (who locked their entire economy to oil production).

Positives of a production cut is that reducing production will extend the life of the fields, beyond the simple math of slower draws. Keeping the price up a bit also makes more exploration and production economic, which is needed to replace declining production. You watch- if oil stays cheap like this for very long at all, the production shortfall that will occur when demand picks back up will be ugly, and the longer prices are low the uglier it will get.

Of course, OPEC hasn't been able to make a production cut stick in 30 years, and any cuts by the Saudis will be covered by other countries.


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## frozencorn (Dec 11, 2008)

$1.59


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## ctenidae (Dec 11, 2008)

So, end of February, Switzerland, or Austria?


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## andyzee (Dec 11, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> So, end of February, Switzerland, or Austria?



I'll be looking at Priceline.com, never got a deal from them til now. Got a Best Western Hotel room in Rutland for 50% off. I figure if the economy stays the way it is, and I expect it will for awhile, then there will be deals to be found. 

I was planning on going out west this season, But after the New Year, I'll have to check the prices out there. That is if I still have a job of course. :lol:


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 11, 2008)

andyzee said:


> $1.49, hard to believe that just a few months ago these same stations were selling regular for $3.85



For sure..I saw $1.47 somewhere in Jersey today..


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## severine (Dec 11, 2008)

$1.65 was the lowest I saw today.


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## drjeff (Dec 11, 2008)

It was raining so hard when I drove by the gas station that I didn't notice what gas was around here today


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 11, 2008)

drjeff said:


> It was raining so hard when I drove by the gas station that I didn't notice what gas was around here today



Between driving to skiing and work..I've been filling up my tank about twice a week and for like $17..lol 

I read an article in Newsweek about how the past 3 months of cheap oil is hurting Dubai bigtime.  I house that used to be 5 million is now 3 million and includes the owners Bentley..If I only had 3 million..then I could ski at their Snowdome..


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## andyzee (Dec 17, 2008)




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## billski (Dec 17, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Realizing, of course, that when oil prices drop, revenues for oil producing countries drops, which means gov't spending in those countries drops,




They already got our money.  Their current building initiatives will go on for decades.


I am very pleased that my ski trip commuting expense has dropped to 1/3 of what it could have been.  Now I can afford a cheeseburger!


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## andyzee (Dec 17, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> Realizing, of course, that when oil prices drop, revenues for oil producing countries drops, which means gov't spending in those countries drops, which means social services and such drops, which makes locals angry. They're not angry at their gov't (who locked their entire economy to oil production).



1. Are there truly social services in those countries?
2. Oil prices drop, that leaves more money for us to spend in this country, resulting in more taxes to our government, resulting in their spending more money. Our government is by far one of the best at spending.


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## ctenidae (Dec 17, 2008)

andyzee said:


> 1. Are there truly social services in those countries?
> 2. Oil prices drop, that leaves more money for us to spend in this country, resulting in more taxes to our government, resulting in their spending more money. Our government is by far one of the best at spending.



Both good points- it's all about balance. In most oil countries, "social services" consists of payoffs to the populace to keep them quiet. Cut those payments, and hilarity does not ensue.


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## severine (Dec 17, 2008)

Gas is starting to go up again. $1.69/gallon last night.


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 17, 2008)

OPec trying to cut production by 2 million barrels a day -- we'll see they 've never been able to sustain that kind of move for long


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## wa-loaf (Dec 17, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> OPec trying to cut production by 2 million barrels a day -- we'll see they 've never been able to sustain that kind of move for long



We're always begging them to increase production when prices are high. I don't see it as a big deal that they want to cut back since the price has dropped. It would be nice if we can keep energy prices on a level keel. Although I don't see that happening.


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 17, 2008)

Cynically speaking i have zero faith in the energy companies doing the right things -- left unattended they will be self serving as always. But NOW is the time to press forward with alternatives


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## Geoff (Dec 17, 2008)

Warp Daddy said:


> Cynically speaking i have zero faith in the energy companies doing the right things -- left unattended they will be self serving as always. But NOW is the time to press forward with alternatives



That's because they are Oil Companies, not Energy Companies.


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## andyzee (Dec 17, 2008)

I have little faith in all companies these days. They're all just driven by the stock market.


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## ctenidae (Dec 17, 2008)

OPEC quotas have been a joke since what, the mid 80's? Iran pretty much blew that whole idea away, and when the Saudis gave up even trying to be the "swing producer" (because compensating for other's over production cost them too much) OPEC became mostly irrelevant. They've brandished the oil sword a couple of times, and it was nearly effective twice, but not so much anymore. I just hope oil goes back up so the Russians will start spending on drilling and upstream stuff again. Most of their land costs a bit more than $40/boe to develop. Besides, at these prices, their oligarchs can't afford their mega luxury yachts, and that hurts the businesses of some friends. Poor Russians...


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## drjeff (Dec 18, 2008)

Yup, those production cuts sure did the trick, as December contract crude fell below $38 a barrel in trading this AM.  As of 11AM it had gone as low as $37.71 before bouncing back slightly into the mid $38 range so far today


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## ctenidae (Dec 18, 2008)

Date	    Gas 	      Oil 
YE 2008	    $6.35 	    $46.79 
2009	    $6.71 	    $54.00 
2010	    $7.64 	    $64.85 
2011	    $7.81 	    $73.86 
2012	    $7.79 	    $76.01 
2013	    $7.78 	    $78.75 
2014	    $7.82 	    $80.82 
2015	    $7.95 	    $82.93 
2016	    $8.08 	    $84.33 
2017	    $8.16 	    $85.40 


Interesting to look at forward strip pricing (essentially what the market thinks oil will cost in the longer-term future)


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## Dr Skimeister (Dec 18, 2008)

Unless we persue alternative energy, these low oil prices have a good chance of setting the stage for very high prices and small crude oil reserves in the future. Low prices lead to less consumer concern about oil use/waste as well as less incentive by the producers to explore and drill. Eventually it comes around to snakebite us consumers. 

This game has been played many times over through the years. It will be more than coincidence that just as we think our economy is starting to rebound ( 3rd quarter 2010), fuel prices will be stratospheric again.

We're being played.


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## ctenidae (Dec 18, 2008)

Dr Skimeister said:


> Unless we persue alternative energy, these low oil prices have a good chance of setting the stage for very high prices and small crude oil reserves in the future. Low prices lead to less consumer concern about oil use/waste as well as less incentive by the producers to explore and drill. Eventually it comes around to snakebite us consumers.
> 
> This game has been played many times over through the years. It will be more than coincidence that just as we think our economy is starting to rebound ( 3rd quarter 2010), fuel prices will be stratospheric again.
> 
> We're being played.



Even without alternatives, we're going to see a price spike- at $40, it's not economic to develop new reserves. Guess what happens when teh current oversupply is used up, adn there's no new development happening?

Longer-term, absolutely, alternatives are going to be a requirement. No one will be able to afford petroleum for anything at all if we keep using it as fuel.


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## andyzee (Dec 18, 2008)

Today's news: 


"*Oil drops 9 percent as demand outlook overshadows OPEC*"  http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-drops-to-36-as-demand-rb-13870828.html

Gotta love it.


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## andyzee (Dec 22, 2008)

$1.39 today. Opec, please cut production again, please....


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 22, 2008)

wow Zeeman that's low -- i paid  $1.73  here


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 22, 2008)

If this cheap gas contines for 2009..I might be able to stick to my new budget..


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## drjeff (Dec 22, 2008)

It took me 52 minutes to get out of the mall I went to tonight once I got to my car    The really pathetis part is that it took me less than 15 minutes to complete the shopping in the 4 stores that I went to tonight.


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## ctenidae (Dec 22, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> If this cheap gas continues for 2009..I might be able to stick to my new budget..



I have to wonder about gas prices. 2 (okay, maybe 3) things going on that we haven't seen before that ought to have some impact:

1) Hurricane Ike. In September, capacity utilization of refineries fell to 74% (meaning refineries were only producing 74% of the distillates (gas, diesel, heating oil, etc) that they could). Normally, it's 85%-90%, which is effectively 100%, once you account for normal maintenance and interruptions. Utilization hasn't been that low since mind 1985 (and I don't know at the moment what happened then)

B) Dollar exchange rates. the USD price of oil vs the EUR price blew way out the past couple of years, particularly around the oil high in July. They've returned to "normal" now. Part of that is the fact that, in a crisis, all correlations move to 1, but it looks like FX rates are normalizing (an over-broad statement, to be sure, since the past 12 months are entirely unlike anything that approaches normal)

So, what happens? I'm not sure, but some parts are a bit worrisome. For one thing, and this may be THE thing, inventories of distillates have done some strange things of late. Not that they're ever actually all that good, but analysts have missed their estimates of inventories of gas, crude, heating oil, and such by huge margins the past 6 months or so (I sometimes think that petroleum analysts are really just failed meteorologists. Seriously, you have to be right sometimes, right?) If the refineries are slow coming back online, then a fairly severe supply crunch is in the works.  If they're slow because there truly is no demand, then maybe life is good in a year or so, as the refineries have had time to do all the maintenance and upgrades they maybe didn't have time for before. But, if they're slow and there is some demand (either pent-up or due to a nasty winter (hello past week)), then prices may very well spike as demand outstrips supply. 

Gasoline gets the added factor of the foreign exchange trade. A surprisingly large amount of gas in the US comes from Europe, since they have a higher demand for diesel, and gas is an "unwanted" byproduct of diesel production. So an increasing percentage of our gasoline stocks could be shipping in from Europe, giving us a fairly serious FX effect.

On top of that, shipping has gone to hell lately. Dry bulk shipping (stuff that's not liquid, duh) has gotten creamed lately, with day rates falling below the daily expenses (it costs more to operate the ship than people are willing to pay to ship stuff). There's been a huge re-setting of that lately, but it's a massive percentage increase on a very small base. Rates are still at or slightly below costs. It has started to creep into the wet bulk (liquids, duh) rates, and will likely continue. Which means that the banks that loaned the money to build a lot of those ships may soon find themselves owning those ships (a la the housing market). Banks don't operate ships (no more than they like to own houses), and it's just as easy for them to dock a ship they've already written the loan off on as it is to do anything else, so if they can't get profitable rates, guess what- they'll pull the ships.

So, we have refineries not refining, and ships that, soon, may not be shipping. Returning to the second bit, FX rates are a bit of a quandry. The British Pound and the Euro have both hit about $1.40 ($1.48 and $1.40 today, to be precise), which makes some sense because much of Europe and the UK have been hit as hard, or harder, as the US by the housing bubble (yes, Virginia, NINJA loans exist everywhere). How do the US and Eurozone financial problems relate, and what will it do to exchange rates? I have no idea. But, a swing one way will make the dollar strong, which makes European gas imports cheap, and a swing the other way makes the dollar weak, which makes European gas imports quite expensive.

So, how much gas in imported into the US from Europe? I'm not entirely sure. I think it's a significant, but not game-changing, amount when refineries in the US are running at normal levels. When they're not, I suspect it's quite a lot. How long have been, or how long will be, refinery's production down? Another variable. 

Unfortunately, the number of unknowns and variables characterize the current ongoing crisis quite well. There's another shoe to drop, on that we can all agree. What we don't know is when it drops, how big the shoe is, and how many pairs are still in the closet.

Sorry for the extended rant/diatribe. I'm wrestling with these questions on a  daily basis, and it often helps me to think out loud. I could delete this post now that I've typed it, but I won't, because I think that the thoughts and reactions of "average" folks (not that any of us really qualify as "average," rabid ski-spenders and equipment-buyers that we all are) plays into the whole dynamic in a fairly massive way. Just think- what you say on this little message board could, in the long run, have a very material impact on (seriously) thousands and thousands of people.

Scary, isn't it?

In closing, I have but two things to say:



And:

:beer:

And third:


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## andyzee (Dec 22, 2008)

ctenidae said:


> I have to wonder about gas prices. 2 (okay, maybe 3) things going on that we haven't seen before that ought to have some impact:
> 
> 1) Hurricane Ike. In September, capacity utilization of refineries fell to 74% (meaning refineries were only producing 74% of the distillates (gas, diesel, heating oil, etc) that they could). Normally, it's 85%-90%, which is effectively 100%, once you account for normal maintenance and interruptions. Utilization hasn't been that low since mind 1985 (and I don't know at the moment what happened then)
> 
> ...



Ok Steve, whatchu do with ctenidae? :lol:


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## andyzee (Dec 24, 2008)

Bonus suggestions for CEOs this year: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=289004&cl=11229996&src=finance&ch=2813875


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## andyzee (Dec 24, 2008)

Times are so bad, folks are getting laid off left and right, yet receipt checkers exist. Is it me or is there something  wrong with this picture?


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## billski (Dec 24, 2008)

andyzee said:


> Times are so bad, folks are getting laid off left and right, yet receipt checkers exist. Is it me or is there something  wrong with this picture?



I'm not following you.  When times are down, theft is up. Thus these "Loss Prevention Specialists" are more necessary.


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## andyzee (Dec 24, 2008)

billski said:


> I'm not following you.  When times are down, theft is up. Thus these "Loss Prevention Specialists" are more necessary.



I'm looking at it from a consumers perspective. I would prefer to go into a store and find helpful staff as opposed to someone that checks my receipt right after I step away from a register. Also, most stores have sensors that will sound alarms like crazy if you do not pay for something.

Which brings up another question. You pay for something, person at the counter doesn't do his thing so that it doesn't sound the alarm as you walk out the door. You walk towards the door, alarm sounds, do you stop and wait or do you continue on. Me, I just continue on. I payed, I have receipt, your system is screwed up, leave the the f alone.


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## billski (Dec 24, 2008)

andyzee said:


> I'm looking at it from a consumers perspective. I would prefer to go into a store and find helpful staff as opposed to someone that checks my receipt right after I step away from a register. Also, most stores have sensors that will sound alarms like crazy if you do not pay for something.
> 
> Which brings up another question. You pay for something, person at the counter doesn't do his thing so that it doesn't sound the alarm as you walk out the door. You walk towards the door, alarm sounds, do you stop and wait or do you continue on. Me, I just continue on. I payed, I have receipt, your system is screwed up, leave the the f alone.



Now, now Andy, you're getting a bit too cranky.  The store is on private property and they can make the rules if they want to.  I'm with you, I keep walking until someone comes get me.  

Regarding ticket scanners, I find the whole scanning thing annoying, that's another reason why skiing at areas like Burke, Magic, MRG and Bolton are so enjoyable.    The implication is that you are presupposed as guilty.  I can't wait till the tickets have chips in them so you only get examined if there seems to be an "issue".   

Hey tekkies, Hmm, what would happen if i have 20 tickets with expired chips on my jacket?  Prolly nuttin?


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## Geoff (Dec 24, 2008)

The world is full of dishonest people.  Thus the ticket checkers in the lift line and the receipt checkers as you exit the big box stores.   At a cost of ~ $10.00/hour, those people more than earn their keep in loss prevention.


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## andyzee (Dec 24, 2008)

billski said:


> Now, now Andy, you're getting a bit too cranky.  The store is on private property and they can make the rules if they want to.  I'm with you, I keep walking until someone comes get me.
> 
> Regarding ticket scanners, I find the whole scanning thing annoying, that's another reason why skiing at areas like Burke, Magic, MRG and Bolton are so enjoyable.    The implication is that you are presupposed as guilty.  I can't wait till the tickets have chips in them so you only get examined if there seems to be an "issue".
> 
> Hey tekkies, Hmm, what would happen if i have 20 tickets with expired chips on my jacket?  Prolly nuttin?





Now, now Andy, you're getting a bit too cranky. The store is on private property and they can make the rules if they want to. I'm with you, I keep walking until someone comes get me.

I'm always cranky. You are correct, they can make the rules, however, 1. If you want to be technical I do not believe that give them the right to stop you without probable cause.2. It is my right to be cranky and complain about, I am the customer. 

Regarding ticket scanners, I find the whole scanning thing annoying, that's another reason why skiing at areas like Burke, Magic, MRG and Bolton are so enjoyable. The implication is that you are presupposed as guilty.

Now, now Bill, you're getting a bit too cranky. The ski areas are either on on private or lease property they can make the rules if they want to. Plus how else will they know who paid. They don't have alarms at the lift like stores have at their exits.


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## andyzee (Dec 24, 2008)

Geoff said:


> The world is full of dishonest people.  Thus the ticket checkers in the lift line and the receipt checkers as you exit the big box stores.   At a cost of ~ $10.00/hour, those people more than earn their keep in loss prevention.



What would you prefer, a receipt check hassling you at the door, or an employee that can help you find a product you need (there's less and less of those)


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Dec 24, 2008)

andyzee said:


> I'm looking at it from a consumers perspective. I would prefer to go into a store and find helpful staff as opposed to someone that checks my receipt right after I step away from a register. Also, most stores have sensors that will sound alarms like crazy if you do not pay for something.
> 
> Which brings up another question. You pay for something, person at the counter doesn't do his thing so that it doesn't sound the alarm as you walk out the door. You walk towards the door, alarm sounds, do you stop and wait or do you continue on. Me, I just continue on. I payed, I have receipt, your system is screwed up, leave the the f alone.



not this shit again..


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## andyzee (Dec 24, 2008)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> not this shit again..



Hey, you don't like it, get the F out of this thread!











(Merry Christmas)


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## andyzee (Dec 28, 2008)

$1.37 a gallon for regular today.


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## drjeff (Dec 28, 2008)

Why is it that New York area sports teams that end in "ets" DON'T know how to finish a season


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 29, 2008)

Detroit sux   first  teh freakin mayor is in the slammer , then the Auto meltdown   capped off by the LYANS -- 0-16  a new statement of ineptitude !!


Last one out turn off the lights


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## Geoff (Dec 29, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Why is it that New York area sports teams that end in "ets" DON'T know how to finish a season



The Jets finished their season the way they usually finish their season.... with a LOSS.


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## andyzee (Dec 29, 2008)

Geoff said:


> The Jets finished their season the way they usually finish their season.... with a LOSS.



So did the Giants  But they've got more games coming up  And their backup quarterback looked pretty damn good.


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2008)

andyzee said:


> So did the Giants  But they've got more games coming up  And their backup quarterback looked pretty damn good.



Short of Eli loosing an IMPORTANT body part, I think the end of the game yesterday is the LAST time the Giants back up QB will being seeing any gametime action this season

Hands down right now, I'd bet the the folks both at FOX and NFL headquarters are hoping for an Eli vs. Peyton Superbowl in a few weeks.


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## andyzee (Dec 29, 2008)

drjeff said:


> Short of Eli loosing an IMPORTANT body part, I think the end of the game yesterday is the LAST time the Giants back up QB will being seeing any gametime action this season
> 
> Hands down right now, I'd bet the the folks both at FOX and NFL headquarters are hoping for an Eli vs. Peyton Superbowl in a few weeks.



No question about it, Eli is the Giants qb, but it's good to see that they have a very capable backup. Manning vs Manning, well of course that's what ratings are made of.


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## andyzee (Dec 30, 2008)

So, OPEC cuts production, Israel starts warring, price of crude goes up. Gasoline this morning $1.34  Actually saw it at $1.32 yesterday in the next town over.:lol:

In other news, got chased by a cop yesterday after leaving a store without showing my receipt.


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## Geoff (Dec 30, 2008)

andyzee said:


> So did the Giants  But they've got more games coming up  And their backup quarterback looked pretty damn good.



Who?  Opie?


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## andyzee (Dec 30, 2008)

Geoff said:


> Who?  Opie?



Well, if it is Opie, he looks like he's got a pretty good arm


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## Geoff (Dec 30, 2008)




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## andyzee (Dec 30, 2008)

Geoff said:


>



You like shrimp? :lol:


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## Chris I (Dec 30, 2008)

andyzee said:


> You like shrimp? :lol:



There's a bubba gump in Breck, I have yet to check it out- anyone been to one of them, how are they?  I need a chick


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## andyzee (Dec 30, 2008)

Chris I said:


> There's a bubba gump in Breck, I have yet to check it out- anyone been to one of them, how are they?  I need a chick



Would you like shrimp with that chick?


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## RootDKJ (Jan 2, 2009)

Just came back from a  walk...and as i enter into the room I see an info-commercial for

http://buyspotnow.com  and almost chocked!  Then had to stare at it for a second to double check the product they were actually selling.


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## andyzee (Jan 2, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Just came back from a  walk...and as i enter into the room I see an info-commercial for
> 
> http://buyspotnow.com  and almost chocked!  Then had to stare at it for a second to double check the product they were actually selling.




I'm looking for something that'll help me find my car in the parking lot, wonder if this can help


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## RootDKJ (Jan 3, 2009)

The Sham-Wow guy got a new job



Introducing the Slap-Chop


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## drjeff (Jan 3, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> The Sham-Wow guy got a new job
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing the Slap-Chop



I'd order 1000 of those things if Vince would just STFU!!!!!!!!


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## severine (Jan 4, 2009)

"You're going to love my nuts..."


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## billski (Jan 4, 2009)

severine said:


> "You're going to love my nuts..."


 






I'm glad I don't have to make a living that way...


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## andyzee (Jan 4, 2009)

Gas prices shot up to 1.48 yesterday! Hope it's a sign that the economy is turning around.


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## billski (Jan 4, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Gas prices shot up to 1.48 yesterday! Hope it's a sign that the economy is turning around.



did you buy your futures contract yet?  8)


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## andyzee (Jan 4, 2009)

billski said:


> did you buy your futures contract yet?  8)



No, all my investment capital is presently tied up.


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## billski (Jan 4, 2009)

andyzee said:


> No, all my investment capital is presently tied up.


With Mr. Madoff, I presume?


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## andyzee (Jan 4, 2009)

billski said:


> With Mr. Madoff, I presume?



Nah, not big enough for that.


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## ctenidae (Jan 5, 2009)

drjeff said:


> I'd order 1000 of those things if Vince would just STFU!!!!!!!!



I got all excited when I saw he had a new commercial.

My aunt was at some mall or something where a guy was doing a ShamWOW demonstration. She ran into the guy when he was on break or something, and got the full download on how Vince is a poser and doesn't know anything about selling stuff. I'd say he knows enough to get two commercials that air all teh time. Sold himself pretty well, there.


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## ctenidae (Jan 5, 2009)

http://gtin13.com/

Seriously?


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## RootDKJ (Jan 5, 2009)

*8000 calorie burger...and nurses*

wow....at least he's honest.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4632991n


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## andyzee (Jan 5, 2009)

I just opened this up because it was the first thread that wasn't about moguls.


----------

