# The single best on piste run in the Northeast



## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

Let's use this thread to debate what is the single best top-to-bottom on piste trail in the Northeast. Let's keep it to named trails, whether they are completely open or gladed. The only criteria is it has to be listed on the trail map. For me, I think my vote goes to Middle Earth on Castlerock at Sugarbush. Great natural snow trail that winds around the side of Castlerock and is somewhat removed from other runs as are most trails on the 'Rock. It has awesome views of the rest of Lincoln Pak and has a great pitch without being overly steep with some nice turns and dips:







I've never done Rumble, nor have I really had the chance to explore much at Mad River Glen the one time I was there, but I'm sure those are contenders. Lower Antelope at MRG gets an honorary mention from me. I've also only done sections of Bubblecuffer and Winter's Way at Sugarloaf, but those look like great runs too.


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## skibum1321 (Mar 30, 2006)

This is a tough question because there are so many great runs out there that I love. 
My group of finalists (one from each of my favorite mountains) would have to be:
Paradise (MRG)
Liftline (Smuggs)
Goat (Stowe)
Valhalla (Jay)
The Mall (Sugarbush) - I realize this choice is kind of out there for the Bush, as I'm sure everyone else will say one of the Castlerock runs. There are so many great runs at the Bush, this one was kind of just the first one that came to mind.




And the winner is....
Liftline at Smuggs. Tons of cliffs, really steep and narrow. IMHO this is the toughest trail in the east. Unfortunately it is rarely open because it gets very windblown.


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## NYDrew (Mar 30, 2006)

Sorry Greg, im going to have to contradict you.  While Middle Earth is a sweet run, her neighbor to skiiers right is the ultimate open trail in the east.  I vote Liftline off Sugarbush's Castlerock Peak.

Followed by Green Beret at Jay and yeah lift line at Smuggs is a sweet run also that is up there in the best.

I decided not to include glades, glades are a totally personal thing and I will have to go with Valhalla as the best designated glade.


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## riverc0il (Mar 30, 2006)

greg, what an impossible question!  i will give some of my favorites in no particular order:

(mrg) fall line, paradise, lower antelope
(jay) timbuktu and valhalla
(cannon) hardscrabbles and tramline

really depends upon my mood and snow conditions which one i enjoy the best.  i think i'd have to go with either paradise or fall line though when it would come down to a "if you could only ski one run this year, what would it be?"  considering paradise is steeper and longer than fall line (if you don't count creamery), i guess it would have to paradise for it's combination of steeps, variable lines, trees, bumps, jumps, character, and plain old in your face ski it if you can dynamic.  though lower antelope is the closest thing to a classic CCC trail out of anything in bounds i have skied in new england, lower antelope wins my heart on the classic character, though if you ask "best" as in the most interesting to ski and most exciting, yea, paradise.


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## nelsapbm (Mar 30, 2006)

Fall Line at MRG is great. 
Also...while not difficult, East Bowl at Burke has got to be one of the best runs in New England, although, technically it's not top to bottom.


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## Phildozer (Mar 30, 2006)

Ollie's at Wachusett.


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## 2knees (Mar 30, 2006)

wow so many to choose from.  

Rumble has to be my favorite.  

And then about 15 more at sugarbush.

I'd also include Redline and Master Magician at magic.  (assuming reasonable conditions)
Needles Liftline at killington  (so unlike most killington trails)
I also love vertigo at killington.  It seems to always have sweet lines when i go there. 
Oh and Havoc and stargazer at bromley on a sunny spring day.  Not the toughest or longest, but certainly the sunniest and softest.  that counts for something.


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## Mark_151 (Mar 30, 2006)

Phildozer said:
			
		

> Ollie's at Wachusett.




Damn, beat me to it.......


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## skibum1321 (Mar 30, 2006)

Phildozer said:
			
		

> Ollie's at Wachusett.


That is a joke, right?


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## highpeaksdrifter (Mar 30, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Let's keep it to named trails, whether they are completely open or gladed. The only criteria is it has to be listed on the trail map.



The Slides at Whiteface. They are not open alot (9 days so far this season), but they are on the map. Cliffs, steeps, trees, ledges, even a frozen waterfall. The best lift serviced terrain in the East (IMO). I've never heard anyone who has skied them say otherwise.


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## Mark_151 (Mar 30, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> That is a joke, right?


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## wintersyndrome (Mar 30, 2006)

*SIngle best on-Piste*

I personally think that anything over at Castlerock is fantastick, but I always love the trail head on Middle earth, being surrounded by those evergreens is beutiful and then the set-up into the steeps of Castlerock...
However I can think of so many runs at the 'bush that will keep this snow slider satisfied
great post
I miss winter already


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

NYDrew said:
			
		

> Sorry Greg, im going to have to contradict you.  While Middle Earth is a sweet run, her neighbor to skiiers right is the ultimate open trail in the east.  I vote Liftline off Sugarbush's Castlerock Peak.


No doubt that Castlerock Liftline is a great run - double fall line, steep as hell and mandatory air if you ski it right, which I didn't do the one time I tried it. I looked like an intermediate traversing sections of it, I'm sure. When the snow is right, it will definitely get another visit from me though:














I also can't wait to try Rumble too. The Mall at Sugarbush was also mentioned. After CR Liftline, I think The Mall might possibly be my next favorite liftline:


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

wintersyndrome said:
			
		

> I always love the trail head on Middle earth, being surrounded by those evergreens is beutiful and then the set-up into the steeps of Castlerock...


Do you mean this area?


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## trailertrash (Mar 30, 2006)

*duplicate thread?*

this thread pretty much looks the same as:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/8121-advil-bump-runs.html


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

Ah yes, the Legendary Castlerock:






Can you tell I'm jonesing already...


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

trailertrash said:
			
		

> this thread pretty much looks the same as:
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/8121-advil-bump-runs.html


Similar for some, but for others their most favorite run doesn't have to have VW sized moguls.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 30, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Let's use this thread to debate what is the single best top-to-bottom on piste trail in the Northeast.



I ASSUME you mean full-length trails:wink:  and not those such as ZIP at Mt Ellen.  :lol:  

I say this because the runs you cite are not "top to bottom" trails technically because they end at the Castlerock Chair and don't go to the "bottom" of the mountain.  

That said, my choice is East Bowl at Burke.  No trails like it.


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> I ASSUME you mean full-length trails:wink:  and not those such as ZIP at Mt Ellen.  :lol:
> 
> I say this because the runs you cite are not "top to bottom" trails technically because they end at the Castlerock Chair and don't go to the "bottom" of the mountain.


Yeah, I guess "top-to-bottom" is misleading. I suppose I meant top-to-bottom of their respective area, i.e. the run is great from when it starts to when it ends, not just a few cool sections here and there.


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## Marc (Mar 30, 2006)

Mark_151 said:
			
		

>



Bah!



Dream maker at Ski Ward no doubt takes the cake.


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## kcyanks1 (Mar 30, 2006)

Wow, very tough.  I have to go with Paradise at Sugarbush, at least if the glades off the side of it can count as being on-the-map.  It provides a good variety with a nice bump run if you stay on the trail, and some nice trees to skier's left.  I guess Paradise at MRG is similar in providing lots of variety, and that would be up there as well, as would Fall Line at MRG.  My favorite completely ungladed run would probably be Middle Earth or Castlerock Run, with Mall and Spillsville (too short) up there as well.  My favorite completely gladed run would probably be Valhalla at Jay.  There are so many good runs, though, especially at SB, MRG, and Jay.  I haven't skied enough at Stowe or at all at Smuggs, but I'm sure I'd have an even harder time chosing my favorite if I had.


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## JimG. (Mar 30, 2006)

Stuff off the single at MRG, Paradise being one of the tops.
Castlerock lift at Sugarbush, Liftline and Rumble my favs.
The Mall At SB.
Lookout at Stowe, the often ignored 5th member of the front five (four).
Starr and Goat at Stowe.
Alot of the glades at Stowe and Jay.

Can't make up my mind.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Mar 30, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> The Slides at Whiteface. They are not open alot (9 days so far this season), but they are on the map. Cliffs, steeps, trees, ledges, even a frozen waterfall. The best lift serviced terrain in the East (IMO). I've never heard anyone who has skied them say otherwise.



Make that 10, they're open again today. Sure hope they hold on for the weekend.


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## Phildozer (Mar 30, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> Dream maker at Ski Ward no doubt takes the cake.



Wow, you've skied Dreammaker?

Dude, you're, like, totally hardcore.

I don't even pretend to be able to ski that run.


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## hammer (Mar 30, 2006)

Marc said:
			
		

> Bah!
> 
> 
> 
> Dream maker at Ski Ward no doubt takes the cake.


 Is that better than Fly Way at Sunapee? 

Seriously, though, I have no qualifications in this area...but I really like some of the pictures on this topic.


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## WWF-VT (Mar 30, 2006)

Top to bottom groomer - Organgrinder / Gondolier at Sugarbush - 1.5 miles - ski it fast without stopping !


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## sankaty (Mar 30, 2006)

Chin Clip at Stowe.

Liftline and National are great, too, when the snow is good.   Some of my all time favorite runs were down Nosedive during a midweek blizzard, though.

Best,
James


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## Zand (Mar 30, 2006)

Anything off the Castlerock chair. Anything off skier's left of the Cannonball Quad. Anything off the single at MRG. Too much to choose.


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## riverc0il (Mar 30, 2006)

> No doubt that Castlerock Liftline is a great run - double fall line, steep as hell and mandatory air if you ski it right, which I didn't do the one time I tried it.


then it technically wasn't mandatory


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> then it technically wasn't mandatory


No, I guess not. But it sure as hell would have looked cooler than the feeble traversing I did...


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## riverc0il (Mar 30, 2006)

perhaps let this run a few more days then make a poll with any run getting at least four or five nods?  i notice a lot of trends  i noticed many of my favorites, and other people's favorites, involve runs with multiple routes so that no run is ever the same twice.  tree runs often are like that by default.  but stuff like valhalla, fall line, paradise, etc. really stand out for the unique aspects of each run depending on which options you take or if you go into the trees or stay on the main route.


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> perhaps let this run a few more days then make a poll with any run getting at least four or five nods?


Great idea. I'll do that...


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## loafer89 (Mar 30, 2006)

My vote is for Bubblecuffer at Sugarloaf, a wild thing trail with no snowmaking and large bumps when there is good snowcover:


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## AdironRider (Mar 30, 2006)

Favorite trail for me is the Kinsman Glade at Cannon. Epic when your the first one down after a 1 foot plus dump. Ask me or anyone else whos experienced it.


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## riverc0il (Mar 30, 2006)

AdironRider said:
			
		

> Favorite trail for me is the Kinsman Glade at Cannon. Epic when your the first one down after a 1 foot plus dump. Ask me or anyone else whos experienced it.


i have skied better than kinsman.  nice trail.  maybe if it was completely filled in with a great base and a foot of fresh it would be on my favorites list... but those are pretty rare ideal conditions for cannon.  i haven't experienced them since kinsman was opened and i have skied cannon more than any other area in those years.  great run, just doesn't compare to my other favorites though, mostly since the cover is so crappy.  they could sure do to thin out the glade a bit more, still a lot of crap in there.  that is true of all of cannon's glades though.


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## win (Mar 30, 2006)

This is a very biased answer since I am one of the 3 owner-partners of Sugarbush.  My favorite trail is Paradise at Sugarbush but Rumble, Stein's, Spillsville. The Mall, Twist, Black Diamond and Tumbler  are close seconds. (all at Sugarbush of course)  Since I am older now,and need to limber up my knees,  my favorite early run is Upper Snowball to Spring Fling largely because the view up there is great in the morning.  My deep dark secret is that I skied Paradise at MRG before I skied at Sugarbush and have to rate that right up there with the best.  It is nice  having two Paradises in the same Valley.

Win


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## JD (Mar 30, 2006)

Chin Clip for powder runs.
Perry Merril for groomer.


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## awf170 (Mar 30, 2006)

Anything on the lookers left of the snowfields or the backside at Sugarloaf.  How is there any comparison?


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## Greg (Mar 30, 2006)

win said:
			
		

> This is a very biased answer since I am one of the 3 owner-partners of Sugarbush.  My favorite trail is Paradise at Sugarbush but Rumble, Stein's, Spillsville. The Mall, Twist, Black Diamond and Tumbler  are close seconds. (all at Sugarbush of course)  Since I am older now,and need to limber up my knees,  my favorite early run is Upper Snowball to Spring Fling largely because the view up there is great in the morning.  My deep dark secret is that I skied Paradise at MRG before I skied at Sugarbush and have to rate that right up there with the best.  It is nice  having two Paradises in the same Valley.
> 
> Win


Yeah yeah yeah - of course you would say that.  Seriously though, thanks for joining and welcome to AlpineZone! I hope you stop by often. We've got a great group here!


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## salida (Mar 30, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> Anything on the lookers left of the snowfields or the backside at Sugarloaf.  How is there any comparison?



Austin knows what he is talking about, I don't know if the backside at the loaf "counts" but if it does I would second that!!!

As for Castlerock, I think rumble really is the best.  It is so narrow, and so technical!


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## NHpowderhound (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm still unclear if we should consider glades.
It doesnt matter though, I cant pick just ONE in eighther catagory.
((*
*))NHPH


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## loafer89 (Mar 30, 2006)

salida said:
			
		

> Austin knows what he is talking about, I don't know if the backside at the loaf "counts" but if it does I would second that!!!
> 
> As for Castlerock, I think rumble really is the best. It is so narrow, and so technical!


 
Advance that vote one further for me, the backside is incredible.


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## kingslug (Mar 30, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> The Slides at Whiteface. They are not open alot (9 days so far this season), but they are on the map. Cliffs, steeps, trees, ledges, even a frozen waterfall. The best lift serviced terrain in the East (IMO). I've never heard anyone who has skied them say otherwise.


I was really hoping to hit them when i went, they where closed and looked treacherous. I would only go with a local.

As far as my favorites. Since i don't travel up north anymore, Hunter west will have to do. When those three are in good shape they are very good runs, Clairs is the favorite though.


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## kcyanks1 (Mar 31, 2006)

win said:
			
		

> This is a very biased answer since I am one of the 3 owner-partners of Sugarbush.  My favorite trail is Paradise at Sugarbush but Rumble, Stein's, Spillsville. The Mall, Twist, Black Diamond and Tumbler  are close seconds. (all at Sugarbush of course)  Since I am older now,and need to limber up my knees,  my favorite early run is Upper Snowball to Spring Fling largely because the view up there is great in the morning.  My deep dark secret is that I skied Paradise at MRG before I skied at Sugarbush and have to rate that right up there with the best.  It is nice  having two Paradises in the same Valley.
> 
> Win



Great that you decided to post here!  Thanks for the input.  I also want to add that I had a group from my school come up from NYC on a bus trip, and both days when we arrived at the base at South, your son greeted our bus, asked if we had any questions, and made sure everyone was comfortable.  I have been very impressed with how nice all the ambassadors (if that is the right word) have been at the mountain in recent years.  And of course, it doesn't hurt that the trails are fantastic


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## deadheadskier (Apr 2, 2006)

Gotta be the Black Hole at Smuggs right?  Afterall its the only triple black diamond in the east


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## uphillklimber (Apr 3, 2006)

Okay, I guess it's all a matter of perspective, as most of you guys seems to be really great skiers. Me, I still consider myself an intermedite, maybe on the higher end, since I will ski some blacks, even double blacks, depending on snow conditions.....so my vote has to go to just a few favorites: Sugarloaf: timberline(I know it's only a green, but it's a nice cruiser), but if I really was hardcore, I have done White Nitro on a good snow day, which I'd do again, but only, I say ONLY on a good snow day!) Next to that at Sugarloaf there's a lot to choose from, so some of my next favorites there are Ramdown and Hayburner. Then there's always Sunday River which is one of my favorite places, do I have to choose just one? Again on a good snow day, I'd do White Heat, but won't do that any other time. So I'd have to go with stuff over at Jordan Bowl like Rouge Angel and Excalibur. Again on a good snow day Oz is fun, ie Eureka.....too much to choose from at Sunday River though. Let's see...I've been to Sugarbush once on an epic day a few years ago. So I'd have to say that one of my favorites there was Rim Run. Haven't really skied there enough to pick any other runs, but what I remember of that place, was it seemed like a great place to ski and would love to get back out there again sometime.


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## ChileMass (Apr 3, 2006)

So many favorites - so little time:  

Nosedive - Stowe
Walking Boss - Loon
Avalanche - Cannon
Chatiemac - Gore
Spillway - Sugarloaf
Maxi - Orford (Quebec)
Dream Maker - Ski Ward!!!!!!


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## jackstraw (Apr 3, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> they could sure do to thin out the glade a bit more, still a lot of crap in there.  that is true of all of cannon's glades though.



state owned!  being a relatively new glade im hoping it will progress and become cleaner in the future.  

without a doubt it belongs among the top trails in the east if you consider, length, fallline, and wilderness factor.  

others;
tramline
valhalla
goat 
kinsmans glade
WF slides...just for you hpd!!  haven't skied it but want to...looks phat!!


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## AdironRider (Apr 3, 2006)

Kinsman should stay exactly as it is. I love that it really feels like your out in the backcountry riding down a hiking trail, as opposed to an actual trail at a aki resort. The lines are tight and there are plenty of rocks, trees, and cliffs to have fun on. The tighter the glades the better if you ask me, thinned out stuff would only detract from the experience.


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## Greg (Apr 3, 2006)

Okay - I've added a poll with the twenty trails that have been mentioned most here. The results should be interesting especially from such a large and varied group of poll options. I purposely left out the Sugarloaf snowfields and the Slides at Whiteface as those are more areas than they are trails. I was torn about including glades here but left them...


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## AdironRider (Apr 3, 2006)

Kinsman takes the early lead! :razz:


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## riverc0il (Apr 3, 2006)

AdironRider said:
			
		

> Kinsman should stay exactly as it is. I love that it really feels like your out in the backcountry riding down a hiking trail, as opposed to an actual trail at a aki resort. The lines are tight and there are plenty of rocks, trees, and cliffs to have fun on. The tighter the glades the better if you ask me, thinned out stuff would only detract from the experience.


i never said thin it out, it isn't exactly tight to begin with.  i am in favor of them cleaning it up a bit.  take a hike up the kinsman trail during the summer and take a look at the crap you are skiing over.  they really need to do a better job maintaining, not to be confused with cutting or thinning more.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 3, 2006)

I'm suprised by all the votes for Valhalla.  Granted Everglade and Staircase aren't featured in the poll, but I enjoy these two much more than Valhalla.


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## EPB (Apr 3, 2006)

A couple good runs that have gone unmentioned:
Ryan Bas, Dynamite and CBC at Tremblant
Kitzbuel and Northwest Passage at Jay
Le Canyon and La S at Mont Sainte Anne
La 42 and Le Mur at Le Massif
and Ripsaw and Powder Keg at Sugarloaf
Since I have to pick a favorite, I'd say Winter's Way at the loaf (from the ext. to the groomed).
You guys gotta explore Quebec, theyres some great terrain to be had... Even where you wouldnt expect it, like at Tremblant (the reviews tend to only talk about the south and soleil sides).


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## kcyanks1 (Apr 4, 2006)

deadheadskier said:
			
		

> I'm suprised by all the votes for Valhalla.  Granted Everglade and Staircase aren't featured in the poll, but I enjoy these two much more than Valhalla.



I voted for Paradise at SB, but mentioned Valhalla as a favorite in my earlier post.  I've never had a chance to ski Staircase as it's always been closed when I've been to Jay (all 4 days).  As for Everglade, I did make it on that once this past December.  Great glade.  I guess my preference for Valhalla at this point might be in part due to the better coverage it gets being higher up in the mountain.  Snow seemed to be nicer in there.  I think Valhalla also is a little wider spaced than Everglade, and I think I prefer that.  I also think it might be a little steeper than Everglade, though maybe not steeper than Staircase (which I haven't skied, as I said).  If I hit Everglade on a good day, though, perhaps I'd change my mind on all of this.


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## jackstraw (Apr 4, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> i never said thin it out, it isn't exactly tight to begin with.  i am in favor of them cleaning it up a bit.  take a hike up the kinsman trail during the summer and take a look at the crap you are skiing over.  they really need to do a better job maintaining, not to be confused with cutting or thinning more.



ya, that's exactly what i was agreeing with.  cleaning it up so its not such a "femur breaker" w/ the all the crap lying below the snow.  if they received 300+ a year it wouldn't matter as much...but they don't!


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## skibum1321 (Apr 4, 2006)

AdironRider said:
			
		

> The tighter the glades the better if you ask me, thinned out stuff would only detract from the experience.


I agree to an extent. There is a point where glades become too tight to even link turns together. For example, the woods off of the top of Rumble are obnoxiously tight and you can't even link turns for most of them.


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## AdironRider (Apr 4, 2006)

For a glade to be perfect I feel it needs to be tight enough that you need to stick your turn perfectly to keep your line going. These are the types of runs that really get the blood flowing and make me a better rider at the same time. Some wicked tight lines at Stowe blow my mind. Have yet to make it to Jay, it sounds like I need to.


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## JD (Apr 4, 2006)

I most enjoy skiing natural Birch forrest.  They are always natuarlly open areas, there isn't NEARLY as much pucker growth, i guess due to elevation, and the rees are wicked cool.  The old ones get Gnarled, and where they blend into the soft woods, they are really stunted by climate and look like bonzai.  Their peeling bark is asthetically pleasing, and holds snow in big clumps.  
Also, so much BC is tight maple pucker, or soft woods, when you hit the birches you get the feeling you could just rip.


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## Zand (Apr 4, 2006)

Castlerock Run. Too bad it's the only Castlerock trail not up there...


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## freeheelwilly (Apr 4, 2006)

*What?*

How about Empire or Upper Cloudspin at Whiteface?  How could those _not _make anybody's list of the top 20?  How is that POSSIBLE???  Oh that's right, why would they be included.  Everybody knows that the Adirondacks aren't part of the Northeast.:roll:  Bizarre.


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## skibum1321 (Apr 4, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> How about Empire or Upper Cloudspin at Whiteface?  How could those _not _make anybody's list of the top 20?  How is that POSSIBLE???  Oh that's right, why would they be included.  Everybody knows that the Adirondacks aren't part of the Northeast.:roll:  Bizarre.


It's just that most of us haven't skied at Whiteface. It's kind of hard to include a trail from a mountain that you've never been to. No one here denies that Whiteface has some great stuff, most of us just haven't been able to ski it.


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## riverc0il (Apr 4, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> How about Empire or Upper Cloudspin at Whiteface?  How could those _not _make anybody's list of the top 20?  How is that POSSIBLE???  Oh that's right, why would they be included.  Everybody knows that the Adirondacks aren't part of the Northeast.:roll:  Bizarre.


your animosity is exasperating.  most people here haven't skied whiteface.  not because it isn't worthy, but rather because it is one of the furtherest resorts from many population centers in new england.  now that i am in StJ, i will probably try to give whiteface a shot as it isn't a horrible drive.  but i wouldn't even consider whiteface from the boston area, especially considering a $63 day ticket price, substantially higher than i am willing to pay for a single day of skiing.

simply put, it is not a slight that whiteface trails were not suggested.  i am not getting pissy because only three people voted paradise at MRG.  it maybe that only three people who voted actually skied paradise!  you can't expect people who have never skied a trail to vote it best... which is essentially the silly aspect of a thread like this as most people haven't even skied HALF the trails listed, but i still think it is fun and i like hearing other people's opinions..


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## Greg (Apr 4, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> which is essentially the silly aspect of a thread like this as most people haven't even skied HALF the trails listed, but i still think it is fun and i like hearing other people's opinions..


You're right! I've only skied six of them!  Who suggested this stupid poll anyway...? :-?


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## riverc0il (Apr 4, 2006)

i might have suggested the poll, but you started the thread  like i said, i still think it is fun and interesting, as silly as it may be


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## Treeskier (Apr 4, 2006)

*Rumble or Paridice at MR a tie*

1st)  Rumble at Sugarbush and Paridice at MR are a tie both offer 8-10' drop offs and I have done both in knee deep....this year.

2nd) Staircase at Jay Peak

3rd) Egan's Woods (all of it including the lower section that has been taken off the map but has 3 large drops in a row. Awsume in 2' of snow) 

4th) Valhala at Jay

5th) Lift line at Sugarbush

6th) Chute at MR

7th) Goat at Stowe

Other favorites. Black Dimond, and Tumbler at North, Fall line at MR, River Quei at Jay, Then there is the May vote Superstar at Kmart


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## kingslug (Apr 4, 2006)

I haven't skied any of them. Sux living on Long Island, everything is a faaaaar drive. I need a driver so I can snooze on the way up.


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## ChileMass (Apr 4, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> How about Empire or Upper Cloudspin at Whiteface?  How could those _not _make anybody's list of the top 20?  How is that POSSIBLE???  Oh that's right, why would they be included.  Everybody knows that the Adirondacks aren't part of the Northeast.:roll:  Bizarre.



Willy - dude - as a native of Glens Falls, longtime Adirondack skier and 20 year resident of Massachusetts, I thought long and hard about Cloudspin before submitting my faves.  That's tough, gnarly trail with huge wind most days and crusty, demanding conditions.  I love that freakin' trail even thuogh I broke my !#@$#!@! shoulder on it 1984.  So maybe that's why it didn't make my final list.  But as you'll see from other posts - I am a big Whiteface and Lake Placid advocate for the uninitiated over here in eastern New England......


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## madskier6 (Apr 4, 2006)

I voted for Paradise at Sugarbush based on the terrain variety on that one trail (gentle sloping terrain at the top that is great with fresh powder, steeps with moguls, glades on skiers left, nice runout at the bottom, etc).  

Paradise at MRG is a close second as is Middle Earth at SB.  I really enjoy Rumble also but that trail is so demanding that, while I love it, it's hard for me to rate it as my favorite.  Lift Line at MRG is right up there as well.  Lynx to Beaver at MRG are also a couple of my favorites.

Obviously I have a bias towards trails in the MRV but I would love to try some of the other trails mentioned.  I realy want to ski at Whiteface when the conditions are good.


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## AdironRider (Apr 4, 2006)

While Cloudspin is a great trail I just cant justify it as the best in the east. Its to wide if you ask me, but the windblown powder often shows up there days after a storm. Skyward, Upper and Lower Mak as well as Empire are all better runs at the face IMO


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## JD (Apr 4, 2006)

Was this thread "ganarliest trails in the NE"  or "best trails in NE"  or are they the same thing?Personally, I don't think those two things are always the same.  Assuming there's  2' of snow...any trail with enough pitch and vert is gonna be a run of a lifetime.  
To me, trails that are steep and stright down the fall line are very challenging, and bmped after the first day they are open.  I like stuff where you can just let 'em run the whoe way down. Even if it isn't super gnar.


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## riverc0il (Apr 5, 2006)

> Was this thread "ganarliest trails in the NE" or "best trails in NE" or are they the same thing?


a little of the same thing but not exactely the same thing.  for example, i nominated lower antelope which is a roller coaster but far from gnarly.  east bowl at burke is much the same.  i think to be one of the "best" runs in the northeast, a pre-requisite is an interesting trail, that changes, rolls, opens up, closes down, presents multiple lines and aspects, no run is ever the same twice, etc.  that sort of definition does not imply gnarly, but the gnarliest runs almost always fit that description...  you don't find many groomers or open slopes that are really interesting trails, imo.  upper cannon and jester might fit the fill or upper antelope/catamount.


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## freeheelwilly (Apr 5, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> your animosity is exasperating.


 It's not "animosity". It's frustration mixed with a bit of amusement.



> most people here haven't skied whiteface.


 
I know. "Why?" is the question I will forever ask given the other options.



> not because it isn't worthy, but rather because it is one of the furtherest resorts from many population centers in new england.


 
Myth! :dunce: And one of the most persistent ones with which Whiteface struggles. Thanks for continuing to spread it though dude.:uzi: 

And Adironrider: You're obviously talking LOWER Cloud. Upper Cloud is no wider than Skyward. And it's 10x cooler - more natural snow, double fall lines, cool fall aways and largely left ungroomed. We don't call it the "snowfields" for nothing. And you're right about Mackenzie - topnotch trail.

Guys my point is simply this: I've skied most places in Vermont (but not, for some reason, Jay. Don't ask .) Whitey is at least twice as good as anything south of the MRV. MRG and Sugarbush are awesome. But to see a trail at Burke mentioned in the poll, _all_ of the front four at Stowe (that's a little cliche' Greg:wink: ) and _three _trails at Cannon, without even_ one_ Whiteface trail being listed is just....I dunno...funny. You GOTTA get out more.


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## Marc (Apr 5, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> Myth! :dunce: And one of the most persistent ones with which Whiteface struggles. Thanks for continuing to spread it though dude.:uzi:



That's not a myth, that's a statement of absolute fact, although with a mild dose of ambiguity.

Steve wrote word for word "not because it isn't worthy, but rather because it is one of the furtherest resorts from many population centers in new england. "

The link you provided listed driving times from *NYC*, which, last time I looked, was not a population center _in New England_.  Basically, from any population center East of Worcester, Whiteface is about as far as you can go in terms of north east mountains.  From that locale, it is farther than the Loaf and Jay.

So, from population centers such as Worcester, Providence, Boston, Taunton, Manchester, etc. etc., Whiteface is _the_ furthest major resort and from locales from Springfield to Worcester, it is about the same to Whiteface as it is to Jay or Sugarloaf.  Therefore, saying Whiteface is *one* of the furthest resorts from many population centers in New England is not only not a myth, but perfectly factual.


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## kcyanks1 (Apr 5, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> How about Empire or Upper Cloudspin at Whiteface?  How could those _not _make anybody's list of the top 20?  How is that POSSIBLE???  Oh that's right, why would they be included.  Everybody knows that the Adirondacks aren't part of the Northeast.:roll:  Bizarre.



I think the poll choices were based on trail names thrown out during the discussion before the threat became a poll.  I don't recall people mentioning Empire or Clouspin at that point, so Greg probably didn't put them in for that reason.  

IMO, neither trail would make my favorite.  Empire would definitely be in consideration, I think.  While the vert on Cloudspin is great, it's too much of a "supertrail" for me to be considered my favorite.  I like trails with more character (if that is the right word).


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## Greg (Apr 5, 2006)

Interesting poll results. I'll let this go for several more days and then take the top three for non-gladed trails and post some new polls. Help me out here - are Valhalla and Kinsman the only gladed runs in this list? I guess both Paradises could be considered partly gladed thought, right? Never done MRG Paradise, but I would consider SB Paradise more non-gladed.


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## jackstraw (Apr 5, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> It's not "animosity". It's frustration mixed with a bit of amusement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



cheese w/ that whine!!! bahahaha!!!

honestly, ive skied WF a loongg time ago and that hill rocks!  i would love to get back there but it's a tremendous 'hike' for me.  the trails fhw mentions should have been listed, just HPD!! forgot to mention them!!  hahaaha!!


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## Bumpsis (Apr 5, 2006)

This whole discussion is a bit pointless at best and bordering on ridiculous.
It's sort of like medieval scholars arguing as to how many angels can fit on a head of a pin.
Point being, this is a bit absurd.

There is no such thing as a single best trail in NE. They are all teriffic runs in their own right and everybody's experience is subjective. Give me enough powder and I'll be happy on most slopes. For some, a nice  intermediate cruiser is where they will get a nice rush, for others, it maye the air drop into the top of Starr. 

The common element in most of the included trails is the level of skill necessary to ski it. If  skiing Goat (just an example) is in you comfort zone, there is no reason why you wouldn't have a blast on any other trail mentioned (ok, you maybe falling asleep on Hardscrabble - again, subjective experience). Given good snow conditions, all of those trials will let you have a blast.


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## jackstraw (Apr 5, 2006)

Bumpsis said:
			
		

> This whole discussion is a bit pointless at best and bordering on ridiculous.
> It's sort of like medieval scholars arguing as to how many angels can fit on a head of a pin.
> Point being, this is a bit absurd.
> 
> ...



word!


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## AdironRider (Apr 5, 2006)

I never said Cloudspin was a bad trail, I just think that Whiteface has got better. Your right that Skyward is just as wide though, guess Im just partial as the best run Ive had at Whiteface this year was 14" of first tracks down Skyward.


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## Greg (Apr 5, 2006)

Bumpsis said:
			
		

> This whole discussion is a bit pointless at best and bordering on ridiculous.
> It's sort of like medieval scholars arguing as to how many angels can fit on a head of a pin.
> Point being, this is a bit absurd.
> 
> ...


Sheesh. Some folks here are taking this too serious. Just thought it would spark some great conversation and lead to a list of awesome trails (which it has). There are many here that I would now like to try based on some of the comments. That sort of was the point. Obviously, there is nothing scientific about the poll at all either - just fun to see how many votes a particular run gets, that's all...:roll:


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## kcyanks1 (Apr 5, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Interesting poll results. I'll let this go for several more days and then take the top three for non-gladed trails and post some new polls. Help me out here - are Valhalla and Kinsman the only gladed runs in this list? I guess both Paradises could be considered partly gladed thought, right? Never done MRG Paradise, but I would consider SB Paradise more non-gladed.



It really depends on how you define the trail.  Paradise (SB) proper has a few scattered trees, but hardly what I would call a glade.  You can go off the trail skier's lift and have much tighter glades.  While perhaps that officially is leaving the trail, it is so well known and so commonly done, that it seems from my perspective that the trail name encompasses the area in the woods immediately to skier's left, but not deeper into the woods where you actually have to put in some effort traversing.

MRG's Paradise proper might be similar, but I think the blur between the wood and trail is less clear so that the trail might even more accurately encompass truly gladed area's.  But I've only skied that twice and not for a couple years, so I can't remember it was well as SB's Paradise which I've skied many more times including a few times this season.


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## Bumpsis (Apr 5, 2006)

OK, credit should be given for good intentions.

But  on tangent, I'd like to say that most of the "what was you best ....." threads can take on an unintended spin and end up being rather insipid. Wasn't there a thread started a while back on "what's your best chair ride"  or something similar?


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## Greg (Apr 5, 2006)

Bumpsis said:
			
		

> ...can take on an unintended spin and end up being rather insipid.


As could most any thread...depending on the respondents... :razz:


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 5, 2006)

freeheelwilly said:
			
		

> It's not "animosity". It's frustration mixed with a bit of amusement.
> 
> I know. "Why?" is the question I will forever ask given the other options.
> 
> ...



Dang Willy, you must be a good lawyer cause you certainly defend your side of an issue well. Even with the crappy winter we’ve all suffered through, at WF skier visits are significantly up from last season, which where up the season before that, same thing the season before that. That said, other then a couple of holiday weekends there is never a lift line, so all is good for us. I’d like to see more AZ folk try WF, but to each his/her own. 

Adron, Upper Skyward and Upper Cloud ski completely different. They groom Upper Skyward almost daily. If you like long, groomed, carving trails with a sustained relatively steep pitch I can’t think of any better. Upper Cloud is great for all the reasons Willy mentioned plus they only groom it when absolutely necessary. It’s very technical skiing which I love.
__________________

One more thing



			
				riverc0il said:
			
		

> a $63 day ticket price, substantially higher than i am willing to pay for a single day of skiing.



Oil, you've mentioned the WF price tag before and that's fine, but I'd like to make you an offer I hope you won't refuse. If you make the trip over to WF next season I'd be happy to comp you a ticket. We can ski together or you can go off on your own whichever you prefer. All I ask is that you post a trip report on what you think of your experience at Whiteface. I know next season is a long way away, but I won't forget and you  just have to PM me when you're coming.

Why the offer? 1. you seem like a good guy and Greg tells me you're a very accomplished skier so I would enjoy making some turns with you. 2. I think you're opinions are universally respected here and it’s just my little way to help promote Whiteface to the AZ nation. Of course you might not like it and my plan will back-fire, but most people who try it do, so I think it’s a good gamble.

BTW- there are many deals, promotions, and discounts that will let folk pay alot less then $63.

Double BTW, that offer is good for my boy Greg too, but that guy gets comped everywhere, so he really doesn't need me.  He's the man.


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## jackstraw (Apr 5, 2006)

no luv for jackstraw, hpd??  that's ok, ghosty owes me a ride at WF anyway...no expiration date on that ticket!


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## Greg (Apr 5, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> Oil, you've mentioned the WF price tag before and that's fine, but I'd like to make you an offer I hope you won't refuse. If you make the trip over to WF next season I'd be happy to comp you a ticket. We can ski together or you can go off on your own whichever you prefer. All I ask is that you post a trip report on what you think of your experience at Whiteface. I know next season is a long way away, but I won't forget and you  just have to PM me when you're coming.
> 
> Why the offer? 1. you seem like a good guy and Greg tells me you're a very accomplished skier so I would enjoy making some turns with you. 2. I think you're opinions are universally respected here and it’s just my little way to help promote Whiteface to the AZ nation. Of course you might not like it and my plan will back-fire, but most people who try it do, so I think it’s a good gamble.
> 
> ...


Now _this _is cool.  I'm sure Steve will take you up on it, HPD. Maybe I'll join you guys...


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 5, 2006)

jackstraw said:
			
		

> no luv for jackstraw, hpd??  that's ok, ghosty owes me a ride at WF anyway...no expiration date on that ticket!



The doors always open for you bra. You been with the WF crew since RSN and none of us have ever met your poser self. Year after year you never come over. We all want to meet you. How much more luv do you need?


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## riverc0il (Apr 5, 2006)

not really a myth, FHW.  unless, NYC is part of new england now.  as i wrote...



> not because it isn't worthy, but rather because it is one of the furtherest resorts from many population centers in *new england*.


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## riverc0il (Apr 5, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Help me out here - are Valhalla and Kinsman the only gladed runs in this list? I guess both Paradises could be considered partly gladed thought, right?


correct.


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## riverc0il (Apr 5, 2006)

> Oil, you've mentioned the WF price tag before and that's fine, but I'd like to make you an offer I hope you won't refuse. If you make the trip over to WF next season I'd be happy to comp you a ticket. We can ski together or you can go off on your own whichever you prefer. All I ask is that you post a trip report on what you think of your experience at Whiteface. I know next season is a long way away, but I won't forget and you just have to PM me when you're coming.


that is an offer i can't refuse!  to be honest, now that i am closer to WF, it has been on my list.  it is just barely day tripable from here (burlington is two hours from here, how long is it with ferry, do you know?).  i'd be more than happy to give whiteface a rip with you.  honestly, i suspect whiteface is everything you make it out to be.  sounds a lot like cannon from what i have gathered, and though different levels of technicality, i suppose you can say they both have some lift serviced "side country" (slides vs. mitt) which i am not trying to compare, just saying both areas have some hairy and interesting stuff.  i am sure i would love the place, hopefully i can find out next year.  though i will still continue to suggest that WF is pretty far away for most new england skiers regardless of my opinion


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## madskier6 (Apr 5, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> that is an offer i can't refuse!  to be honest, now that i am closer to WF, it has been on my list.  it is just barely day tripable from here (burlington is two hours from here, how long is it with ferry, do you know?).  i'd be more than happy to give whiteface a rip with you.  honestly, i suspect whiteface is everything you make it out to be.  sounds a lot like cannon from what i have gathered, and though different levels of technicality, i suppose you can say they both have some lift serviced "side country" (slides vs. mitt) which i am not trying to compare, just saying both areas have some hairy and interesting stuff.  i am sure i would love the place, hopefully i can find out next year.  though i will still continue to suggest that WF is pretty far away for most new england skiers regardless of my opinion



This sounds like the beginning of an AZ Whiteface outing.  While I don't expect the comp lift ticket offer, I would love to ski Whiteface with you guys sometime next year.  I hate to invite myself but . . . .if you're looking for additional recruits, count me in.  I'll pay my own way.

I've been trying to get up to Whiteface for several years now and just haven't been able to hit it for a variety of reasons (but not because of the driving distance).  I drool at the view of Whiteface from the summit of Sugarbush and MRG on clear days.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 6, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> it is just barely day tripable from here (burlington is two hours from here, how long is it with ferry, do you know?



It's 2 hours from Burlington to WF using the ferry.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 6, 2006)

madskier6 said:
			
		

> This sounds like the beginning of an AZ Whiteface outing.  While I don't expect the comp lift ticket offer, I would love to ski Whiteface with you guys sometime next year.  I hate to invite myself but . . . .if you're looking for additional recruits, count me in.  I'll pay my own way.
> 
> I've been trying to get up to Whiteface for several years now and just haven't been able to hit it for a variety of reasons (but not because of the driving distance).  I drool at the view of Whiteface from the summit of Sugarbush and MRG on clear days.



Great :smile: the more AZers the better. You would be most welcome.


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## smootharc (Apr 6, 2006)

*And whoever survives the Slides....*

...can stand at the bottom with other AZ'ers and chant "USA, USA, USA !"...


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## jackstraw (Apr 6, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> How much more luv do you need?



do you have a daughter?  doh!!!  sorry, you know me!

i know, just joking about the invite.  my kids are too young for me to make a long road trip for a 'boys' weekend and that whole jay peak powder haven being soo much closer!


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## dmc (Apr 6, 2006)

Clairs Way - Hunter


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 6, 2006)

jackstraw said:
			
		

> do you have a daughter?  doh!!!  sorry, you know me!
> 
> i know, just joking about the invite.  my kids are too young for me to make a long road trip for a 'boys' weekend and that whole jay peak powder haven being soo much closer!



I have a 19 year old daughter and I wouldn't let her come within a mile of a depraved
degenerate like you.

I hate to admit I've never been to Jay, but I really want too. Maybe me and some of the WF boyz could meet you at Jay next season.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 6, 2006)

dmc said:
			
		

> Clairs Way - Hunter



I was wondering when you or Jiminy G. was going to represnet for Hunter. Even though it's always in the dark I'd have to say I like Annapurna better. Great long bump run.


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## dmc (Apr 6, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> I was wondering when you or Jiminy G. was going to represnet for Hunter. Even though it's always in the dark I'd have to say I like Annapurna better. Great long bump run.



I always consider Anna Purna to be somewhat of a skiers trail..  

too bad it never opened this year


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 6, 2006)

dmc said:
			
		

> I always consider Anna Purna to be somewhat of a skiers trail..
> 
> too bad it never opened this year



That's suprising to me. When I was there they always blew snow on Anna Purna, it was 44 they didn't touch. Years would go by without that being open.


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## dmc (Apr 6, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> That's suprising to me. When I was there they always blew snow on Anna Purna, it was 44 they didn't touch. Years would go by without that being open.



Someone told me that they are trying to expand the Westside..  And they've been opening Westway because it's more visible - shoiwing that they use all the terrain..  Or something to that efffect...

But who knows...


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 6, 2006)

dmc said:
			
		

> Someone told me that they are trying to expand the Westside..  And they've been opening Westway because it's more visible - shoiwing that they use all the terrain..  Or something to that efffect...
> 
> But who knows...



I never understood why they just don't blow snow on all of them. They certainly have the snowmaking capacity. People use to say that 44 was wide open and couldn't hold snow well enough. I always thought that was BS.


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## riverc0il (Apr 6, 2006)

> I hate to admit I've never been to Jay, but I really want too. Maybe me and some of the WF boyz could meet you at Jay next season.


you show me yours and i'll show you mine  four hours total is a haul for me, but i'll try to make it over next season.  jay should be closer for you, i can't remember drive time from burlington, but i would guess 1:15-1:30 or so.

you can add muleskinner at saddleback to the list.  i wouldn't call it the single best, but it certainly deserves to be on such a poll and is better than many listed, as i found out today!


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## kingslug (Apr 6, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> I never understood why they just don't blow snow on all of them. They certainly have the snowmaking capacity. People use to say that 44 was wide open and couldn't hold snow well enough. I always thought that was BS.



It's the steepest run they have and very wide. When they do blow it only reaches half way across the run. I would imagine it costs a fortune to get it in good shape. 
I nominate Clairs run as it's the most interesting. It has 2 or is it 3 different approaches and a double fall line. It also remains steep almost to the end.


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## skibum1321 (Apr 7, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> you show me yours and i'll show you mine  four hours total is a haul for me, but i'll try to make it over next season.  jay should be closer for you, i can't remember drive time from burlington, but i would guess 1:15-1:30 or so.


It's a little under an hour and a half from Burlington.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 7, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> you show me yours and i'll show you mine  four hours total is a haul for me, but i'll try to make it over next season.  jay should be closer for you, i can't remember drive time from burlington, but i would guess 1:15-1:30 or so.



4 hours is a haul, so you make a weekend out of it. When I go to Jay no way is it going to be a day trip.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 7, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> It's the steepest run they have and very wide. When they do blow it only reaches half way across the run. I would imagine it costs a fortune to get it in good shape.
> I nominate Clairs run as it's the most interesting. It has 2 or is it 3 different approaches and a double fall line. It also remains steep almost to the end.



K27 is the steepest and I don't remember Clairs being a 2X fall line.


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## Greg (Apr 7, 2006)

Claire's is a great run, but best in the Northeast? Not even close, IMO.

*Claire's Way at Hunter:*










Certainly a demanding and challenging run, but I don't think it can hold a candle to the ones in this poll that I've skied. I don't know that I'd call it a double fall line either. Sure is meanders back and forth a bit, especially at the top, but not really double fall line. Castlerock Liftline, now _that's_ a double fall line:


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## dmc (Apr 7, 2006)

A trail doesnt have to be long to be good... imho...


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## Greg (Apr 7, 2006)

dmc said:
			
		

> A trail doesnt have to be long to be good... imho...


Agreed. Sugarbush's Paradise is not really that long, but it's an awesome run. Twilight Zone at Magic is another good example:






The steeper sections of Triple Trouble at Loon aren't very long, but it's also a favorite:






And certainly nothing against Claire's. I did say it's a great run, but there are better.


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## dmc (Apr 7, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> And certainly nothing against Claire's. I did say it's a great run, but there are better.



yup... there are...


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## jackstraw (Apr 7, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> I hate to admit I've never been to Jay, but I really want too. Maybe me and some of the WF boyz could meet you at Jay next season.



definitely!  jay is da bomb!!  you need to get there!


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## smootharc (Apr 7, 2006)

*Tossed my vote in for Paradise at MRG....*

....after much chewing it all over in my brain. 

I think it ended up being the fact when I approach MRG's Paradise I get a heightened sense of adventure...an involuntary surge of adrenaline....and I seem to see, hear, smell, touch and taste things more keenly.  It demands my very best...which I humbly try to deliver with appreciation and respect.  

Also, there's just so many darn ways you can ski it....it's really like about 20 trails in one.


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## riverc0il (Apr 7, 2006)

smootharc, very very well put!  especially regarding that sense of adventure and all the various ways you can ski it, all the lines, etc.  to be one of the best trails, i think a trail needs to offer something different and something special.  a lot of trails mentioned are some of the best of those particular styled trails, but they lack that uniqueness factor.  valhalla is another with a ton of lines and a sense of adventure, though not to the same degree.  i really appreciate that natural aspect of skiing, not being confined to a set route and being able to explore.


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## jackstraw (Apr 7, 2006)

since no one can agree, i'll just let everyone know the best trail out of the goodness of my heart...

its TRAMLINE at Cannon




bahahahhaahahahaaahahaha!!!!!!!!

have a great weekend kidds!


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## teachski (Apr 7, 2006)

There are many different criteria by which we judge a trail and we are all so different that what I am looking at as being great someone else might look at totally different.  Heck, for me the answer varies from day to day based on several different things; my mood, snow cover, grooming or lack there of, etc.  I have skied a run one trip and loved it and skied it another and thought that it was somewhat below my expectations.  We are dealing with forces of nature and the elements here so, regardless of what the area may do to a slope (snowmaking, grooming, etc.) there are other things that play into how a slope skis on a given day.  I always give a trail another chance if I did not like it on one trip...it may be a little different or I might be a little different and like it on another try.


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## freeheelwilly (Apr 7, 2006)

smootharc said:
			
		

> ....
> Also, there's just so many darn ways you can ski it....it's really like about 20 trails in one.


 
That's exactly what makes for a cool trail IMHO.  That's why MRG has so many cool trails.  It's also why Upper Cloudspin is such a cool trail.  There's at least 5 different ways to ski it.


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## Birdman829 (Apr 7, 2006)

I don't feel like reading the rest of the thread but I'm sure I'm not the only one who senses a Vermont bias in this poll.  Nothing from New Hampshire other than at Cannon (Wildcat or Lynx at Wildcat anyone?) and only one from Maine.  Also, how are glades considered on piste?

I personally would add Wildcat and Lynx from the cat, Winter's Way, Narrow Gauge and Gondi Line from the Loaf, something from Oz at Sunday River (provided they get some snow), and maybe even Ptarmigan or Tightrope from Attitash.


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## riverc0il (Apr 7, 2006)

> I don't feel like reading the rest of the thread but I'm sure I'm not the only one who senses a Vermont bias in this poll. Nothing from New Hampshire other than at Cannon (Wildcat or Lynx at Wildcat anyone?) and only one from Maine. Also, how are glades considered on piste?


coming from boston area myself and having most of my skiing experience in NH, i can vouch for the fact that VT has a much higher percentage of great runs than NH.  cannon and wildcat have some really good trails, lynx is indeed a classic cruiser and hardscrabbles at cannon are classic.  loon has some good terrain too.  but nothing on piste in NH compares to much of what VT has to offer, especially when you factor in consistancy of conditions.

i mentioned this recently, i think to sledhauler yesterday at saddleback.  i observed that it was too bad that the best of the green mountains and white mountains couldn't be combined.  whites have better consistant pitches, less run out, better more dramatic views, etc. while the greens have better landscapes and trees for cutting glades, thin woods for options, and better snow fall.


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## kingslug (Apr 7, 2006)

Clairs becomes a double fall about half way down. Just wish I lived closer to all these other areas so I could see all these runs. I guess the correct thing to say would be that the west side is as good as some of us can get within driving distance.

P.S. We're just defending our little hole in the wall.


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## EPB (Apr 7, 2006)

I like the Attitash reference, Birdman. Thats where I spend most of my time (its a real estate issue to say the least), but I'm with rivercoil when it comes to consistancy of conditions. The old gondi line at the cat is epic, and directly under the Flying Bear and Abenaki lifts are pretty legitimite too, but they all are rarely in good contition and almost never soft. But even with good contitions, the only runs imo that can really stack up from NH are Lynx, the old gondi line and hsq line at the cat, and hardscrable, tramline and kinsman glade at cannon.


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## riverc0il (Apr 7, 2006)

even when comparing stuff like the lift lines, neither wildcats liftlines nor tramline really compares to mrg's liftline.  i have heard great things about smuggs and castlerock liftlines, but sadly can't compare.  magic has red line.  VT has liftlines at least as good as those in NH and many better.  lynx is a classic, but i would take antelope top to bottom over lynx and hardscrabbles as a classic best run for a windy trail.

i suspect this poll might be easier if it were broken down a bit: best liftline, best bump run, best glade, best steep, best windy trail, most classic character, etc.


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## kingslug (Apr 7, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> even when comparing stuff like the lift lines, neither wildcats liftlines nor tramline really compares to mrg's liftline.  i have heard great things about smuggs and castlerock liftlines, but sadly can't compare.  magic has red line.  VT has liftlines at least as good as those in NH and many better.  lynx is a classic, but i would take antelope top to bottom over lynx and hardscrabbles as a classic best run for a windy trail.
> 
> i suspect this poll might be easier if it were broken down a bit: best liftline, best bump run, best glade, best steep, best windy trail, most classic character, etc.


We have all summer to debate these things. Start a new poll.


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## kbroderick (Apr 7, 2006)

This one has me thinking...I don't remember what Castlerock runs I skied last year when I got over to Sugarbush, and I haven't skied a lot of the gnarlier stuff at most of the other resorts on the list (never been to MRG, Jay, or Burke, sadly enough, and I haven't skied the more interesting Stowe stuff more than once or twice, if that); however, I do agree that Vermont is a bit overrepresented.  Sunday River, for example, has the Locke Line -> Crossbow -> Tightwire run, Spruce Cliffs to Last Tango (which was a bit cooler and tended to have better snow before it made the trail map), and Obsession has more off-camber turns than you can shake a pointy stick at (and so little daylight that you'll probably never see most of them coming).  I think Saddleback has its share of interesting trails, too, although I'd be hard-pressed to name a single one of them.

With that said, perhaps we need to form a semi-official AZ scouting party and make sure that we do proper reconnaissance so that we can have a better-informed argument...er, I mean thread...about it next year.


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## Greg (Apr 8, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> Clairs becomes a double fall about half way down. Just wish I lived closer to all these other areas so I could see all these runs. I guess the correct thing to say would be that the west side is as good as some of us can get within driving distance.
> 
> P.S. We're just defending our little hole in the wall.


Nothing against Claire's or Hunter, Slug. The blacks there are legit Northern New England black diamonds, at least in regards to pitch. Trust me, I wish I lived closer to a mountain like Hunter. It offers all I would need for a home mountain. Not trying to put it down, but it is what it is...


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## takeahike46er (Apr 8, 2006)

Perhaps it is just because I skied it recently, but *Lies* at Gore strikes me as one of my favorites.  Steep pitch with some great lines.  While not as hardcore as the neighboring trail The Rumor, *Lies* offers more character.  Like many of the steeps at Gore, too bad it doesn't last longer.

*Chin Clip* at Stowe is another favorite of mine.  A looong bump run that twists and winds, alternates pitches and gets those legs screaming.  It is a blast to ski.  I prefer this trail to any   of the front four.


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## awf170 (Apr 8, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> even when comparing stuff like the lift lines, neither wildcats liftlines nor tramline really compares to mrg's liftline. i have heard great things about smuggs and castlerock liftlines, but sadly can't compare. magic has red line. VT has liftlines at least as good as those in NH and many better. lynx is a classic, but i would take antelope top to bottom over lynx and hardscrabbles as a classic best run for a windy trail.
> 
> i suspect this poll might be easier if it were broken down a bit: best liftline, best bump run, best glade, best steep, best windy trail, most classic character, etc.



Since we are talking about liftlines.  I think feline is one of the best.  So thin and the chair is so low that almost hits you in the head.


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## riverc0il (Apr 8, 2006)

wildcat has good liftlines, they are enjoyable.  i wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of the liftlines list though.  chute/liftline at mrg is way up there, red line at magic, tramline at cannon, and although i haven't skied them, i gotta believe smuggs liftline at madonna and castlerock's liftline are better than wildcats.  they are great fun, but they just aren't quite there.  feline is good, my main contention with feline is it is a fairly short run and not too steep at the top.  i appreciate the narrow aspect of that run.  i just wouldn't consider it the best, not even top five, imo.


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## awf170 (Apr 8, 2006)

riverc0il said:
			
		

> wildcat has good liftlines, they are enjoyable. i wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of the liftlines list though. chute/liftline at mrg is way up there, red line at magic, tramline at cannon, and although i haven't skied them, i gotta believe smuggs liftline at madonna and castlerock's liftline are better than wildcats. they are great fun, but they just aren't quite there. feline is good, my main contention with feline is it is a fairly short run and not too steep at the top. i appreciate the narrow aspect of that run. i just wouldn't consider it the best, not even top five, imo.



Yeah, I haven't skied Smuggs, MRG, or Magic.  I would say they are the 4 best.  And tramiline.  So I guess that makes 5.  So I guess it isn't one of the best, but still pretty good.  I would also like to add that I don't really think Castlerock liftline is that good, too wide, and not really that hard.


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## kingslug (Apr 8, 2006)

Greg said:
			
		

> Nothing against Claire's or Hunter, Slug. The blacks there are legit Northern New England black diamonds, at least in regards to pitch. Trust me, I wish I lived closer to a mountain like Hunter. It offers all I would need for a home mountain. Not trying to put it down, but it is what it is...


No worries. It's the closest real skiing that I can do. It doesn't compare to the real great ones farther north. When we ever get a good snow year and the whole west side is open, It's the best for miles around. I'm not one to defend places too much. As you say, it is what it is.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 9, 2006)

kingslug said:
			
		

> Clairs becomes a double fall about half way down..



Not to make a big deal outta this, but it doesn't. DMC or JimmyG. could you please sound off on this?


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## skibum1321 (Apr 10, 2006)

awf170 said:
			
		

> I would also like to add that I don't really think Castlerock liftline is that good, too wide, and not really that hard.


There are some lines that you can take that don't make you take mandatory airs. But the challenge is there if you want it. Just stay towards the skiers right side of the trail and obviously don't take really wide turns down it.


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## skibum1321 (Apr 10, 2006)

Birdman829 said:
			
		

> I don't feel like reading the rest of the thread but I'm sure I'm not the only one who senses a Vermont bias in this poll.  Nothing from New Hampshire other than at Cannon (Wildcat or Lynx at Wildcat anyone?) and only one from Maine.  Also, how are glades considered on piste?
> 
> I personally would add Wildcat and Lynx from the cat, Winter's Way, Narrow Gauge and Gondi Line from the Loaf, something from Oz at Sunday River (provided they get some snow), and maybe even Ptarmigan or Tightrope from Attitash.


I haven't skied Oz in years, so i can't comment there and have regrettably never been to Wildcat or the Loaf. But you're kidding me with Ptarmigan or Tightrope right? I've skied them both and was neither challenged nor impressed. They're average, groomed runs with sub-par snow (because they're at Attitash). I think a big reason a lot of the Greens are in there a lot is because snow is better and the attitude in Northern VT tends to be that more stays ungroomed, thus making for more great expert runs.



			
				takeahike46er said:
			
		

> Chin Clip at Stowe is another favorite of mine. A looong bump run that twists and winds, alternates pitches and gets those legs screaming. It is a blast to ski. I prefer this trail to any of the front four.


I just find Chin Clip to be icy most of the time. The pattern tends to be bump, ice, bump, ice, etc, etc, etc for the entire length of the trail.


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## takeahike46er (Apr 10, 2006)

skibum1321 said:
			
		

> I just find Chin Clip to be icy most of the time. The pattern tends to be bump, ice, bump, ice, etc, etc, etc for the entire length of the trail.



Guess I've been lucky!


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## kingslug (Apr 10, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> Not to make a big deal outta this, but it doesn't. DMC or JimmyG. could you please sound off on this?


If the definition of a double fall line is that one side is higher than the other then being that the right side of clairs is a lot higher than the left about half way down it could be considered so. This might be due to the way the guns blast the right and build it up higher than the left. It definitely isn't flat across it's width. A picture of it with no snow would be interesting.


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## JimG. (Apr 10, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> Not to make a big deal outta this, but it doesn't. DMC or JimmyG. could you please sound off on this?



Well, the terrain there doesn't have a double fall line, but with the way the snowmaking is set up the snow piles up on one side of the trail and it does create a double fall line halfway down the run.


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## andyzee (Apr 10, 2006)

<X> Devil's Fiddle -  Killington


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## Brettski (Apr 10, 2006)

OK, Didn't read a single post, but from the pick list, why was Maine left out of the category?

I kinda like obsession for it's double fall line...

AND how can you lean Annapurna off the list....oye....

Or Cloudspin for that matter

Or Hawkeye

Or shockwave (which was closed last week....so dissapointed)

Or Bim's wim...is that really on piste?

Or Woodsman's trail (g.d. cross country trail....should run into thumper though)

MOO

Did I mention I saw a mommy and baby moose on the Kanc?  The kids were so excited (Dad too)  First Moose I ever saw in the wild.  Most NH's I spoke to in Lincoln say they never have seen one.

Something to be said about April Dumps I guess.

Yes, I was here on Wednesday....stellar

http://www.sundayriver.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=82&thumb=1


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## Brettski (Apr 10, 2006)

And smuggs gets only one?  Good Lord....

And isn't there an abandond trail at Stowe to the left of goat?

I fear my children will NEVER ski Stowe.

Last year they were charging fll price for spring skiing with a half damaged mountain...something is very wrong in whoville

x= 70* 5

No thanks


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## Brettski (Apr 10, 2006)

How is a glad considered on piste?

My how times have changed.....


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## kcyanks1 (Apr 10, 2006)

Brettski said:
			
		

> And smuggs gets only one?  Good Lord....



The poll choices, I think, were based on trails named in the thread before the thread was turned into the poll.   It seems like the people who participated in the thread at that stage mostly named VT trails.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Apr 10, 2006)

JimG. said:
			
		

> Well, the terrain there doesn't have a double fall line, but with the way the snowmaking is set up the snow piles up on one side of the trail and it does create a double fall line halfway down the run.



So we're both right, you're quite the diplomat JimmyG. :-D


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## eatskisleep (Apr 10, 2006)

Valhalla at Jay.


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## kingslug (Apr 11, 2006)

highpeaksdrifter said:
			
		

> So we're both right, you're quite the diplomat JimmyG. :-D


Thats what I figured. When the bumps are huge on the right, I head over to the left which is lower and has smaller moguls.
Hunter...where not only is our snow manmade, but our fall lines as well.


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## Treeskier (Apr 11, 2006)

*Went and skied Vallahala at Jay*

Went and skied Valhalla last Saturday. While it is step it is not as challenging, fun or long as Paradise at Mad River. Skied Paradise at Sugarbush Sunday, it was also fun but still my vote is Paradise at MR. Was one of the last to ski P. at the bush. It skied very nicely. Sad to see it not lift accessed any more.


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## Greg (Jul 5, 2007)

Interesting to look at this thread again especially since I added a few runs this past season that I had not skied at the time of this thread, including Fall Line and Paradise at MRG and Rumble at Sugarbush. All three are far more technical than Middle Earth. Rumble is awesome as far as challenge goes and Fall Line and Paradise are excellent in terms of both challenge as well as diversity and multiple routes. That's what I love about trails at MRG, each run, even on the same named trail, is different. I guess it's become more difficult for me to select just one as "best".


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## MikeTrainor (Jul 6, 2007)

I voted for Lower Antelope at MRG I love that trail, also I have to go for Castlerock Run at Sugarbush and Lynx at Wildcat as my 3 favorite trails in NE (all for different reasons).


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## mattchuck2 (Jul 6, 2007)

smootharc said:


> ....after much chewing it all over in my brain.
> 
> I think it ended up being the fact when I approach MRG's Paradise I get a heightened sense of adventure...an involuntary surge of adrenaline....and I seem to see, hear, smell, touch and taste things more keenly.  It demands my very best...which I humbly try to deliver with appreciation and respect.
> 
> Also, there's just so many darn ways you can ski it....it's really like about 20 trails in one.



Yep . . . This is why I voted for Paradise too


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## Marc (Jul 6, 2007)

Wachusett's Vickery Bowl.




/thread


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## riverc0il (Jul 7, 2007)

Originally I voted for Paradise @ MRG but having finally skied Rumble I would change my vote. I haven't skied Bubblecuffer or anything at Smuggs but I have skied everything else on that list. Never skied anything on piste quite like Rumble which skis like an old CCC trail tilted up an additional 15 degrees. They certainly don't build them like that any more. Though even the best on piste run in the East is really only scratching the surface of the quality skiing beyond the map.


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## kingslug (Jul 7, 2007)

After skiing Chin Clip in 3 feet of pow...it was one of the best runs ever for me in the east. Smuggs was in bad shape when I went but the runs look truly sick...if they have some coverage. Plan on hitting the N. East a lot more in the coming season.


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## Zand (Jul 8, 2007)

That's how I would order the ones on that list I've skied now. Next year I shall hit the remainder of the Sugarbush and MRG trails that I haven't hit.
Fall Line
Goat
Starr
Lower Antelope
Hardscrabble
Sugarbush Paradise
Chin Clip
The Mall
National
Stowe Liftline


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## deadheadskier (Aug 22, 2007)

I voted Paradise at MRG at some point and it still ranks up there for me...

others include:

Jay: Staircase, Face Chutes
Smuggs: Liftline
Stowe: Lookout and Goat
Sugarbush: Black Diamond, Rumble
Sugarloaf: Bubblecuffer, Winter's Way, Misery Whip
Sunday River: Shockwave


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 23, 2007)

Maybe not the best..but I like Lookout at Stowe..right under the Lookout double..the top is usually roped off(reserved) and is narrow and then it opens up and there's a cool double fall line and some ledges on the right side to drop off of.  I definitely skied alot of powder on that run during the early April dumps when I spent a week up there.  Back in my college days..I probably skied Lookout 200 times..


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## 2knees (Aug 23, 2007)

your avatar is giving me an ulcer.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 23, 2007)

2knees said:


> your avatar is giving me an ulcer.



haha..I'll change it to something different..I usually change my Avatar a few times a day..lol


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## JimG. (Aug 24, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Maybe not the best..but I like Lookout at Stowe..right under the Lookout double..the top is usually roped off(reserved) and is narrow and then it opens up and there's a cool double fall line and some ledges on the right side to drop off of.  I definitely skied alot of powder on that run during the early April dumps when I spent a week up there.  Back in my college days..I probably skied Lookout 200 times..



Shhhhhhh!

I always forget to consider Lookout in these tyes of threads. Agreed, great run.


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## JD (Aug 24, 2007)

I like chin clip with a blanet of fresh.  It's got a great natural rythem.  Fun steeps to bomb, big sweepers.  When conditions are right and you can just let it roll, like early season when it's not bumped, or the once or twice a year that they groom it, it's a minute of really fun skiing.   More character then Nosedive, more turns then starr, lookout.  I like goat too, but I've never skiied it blown in completely flat.  Ussually hidden bumps.  I think it's the best bump run at the hill, if you're into that kind of thing.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 24, 2007)

JD said:


> I like chin clip with a blanet of fresh.  It's got a great natural rythem.  Fun steeps to bomb, big sweepers.  When conditions are right and you can just let it roll, like early season when it's not bumped, or the once or twice a year that they groom it, it's a minute of really fun skiing.   More character then Nosedive, more turns then starr, lookout.  I like goat too, but I've never skiied it blown in completely flat.  Ussually hidden bumps.  I think it's the best bump run at the hill, if you're into that kind of thing.




Goat is the best when it's reserved..aka..when ski patrol puts a rope across it..I find Chin Clip to get a ton of traffic but I live Riverbed to the skiers right of Chin-Clip leading to Tits lower down..and also the Bench area to the left of Chinclip..Fun Stuff..Don't be a gaper and stop on that traverse or you'll have a pileup of pissed off skiers and riders..


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## JD (Aug 24, 2007)

Great point about that traverse BTW.  Should be a seperate thread almost.  People who know it come thru that first steep really hot, trying to make the short up.  People who don't stop there and it's really dangerous.  If you have to stop to check out the terrain, pull out high.  Also be warned that heading left of chin clip can put you over some cliffy areas.  2 years ago, the same day Alec Stall died here, another local rode off an 80 footer.


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## Highway Star (Jan 15, 2009)

Thread fail!!!!


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 15, 2009)

Although not on the list I think Lift Lion to Black Cat at Wildcat is my favorite trail.


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## Highway Star (Jan 15, 2009)

The best.


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## lerops (Jan 15, 2009)

riverc0il said:


> your animosity is exasperating. most people here haven't skied whiteface. not because it isn't worthy, but rather because it is one of the furtherest resorts from many population centers in new england. now that i am in StJ, i will probably try to give whiteface a shot as it isn't a horrible drive. but i wouldn't even consider whiteface from the boston area, *especially considering a $63 day ticket price, substantially higher than i am willing to pay for a single day of skiing.*
> 
> simply put, it is not a slight that whiteface trails were not suggested. i am not getting pissy because only three people voted paradise at MRG. it maybe that only three people who voted actually skied paradise! you can't expect people who have never skied a trail to vote it best... which is essentially the silly aspect of a thread like this as most people haven't even skied HALF the trails listed, but i still think it is fun and i like hearing other people's opinions..


 
Just wanted to pitch in here about the ticket prices at WF. If you make it there and stay somewhere in the area, ask your hotel/inn/whatever for lift tickets. Last year we paid about $40/day for lift tickets. It was the biggest lift ticket savings anywhere in my limited experience.


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## andyzee (Jan 15, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> Thread fail!!!!




I don't believe it Greg, you actually have me agreeing with Highway Star, it's bogus.


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## Edd (Jan 16, 2009)

Highway Star said:


> The best.




Shockingly obsessed with Killington...


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## dropKickMurphy (Jan 16, 2009)

How about the Wildcat Valley Trail?

No, I've never skied it (but it is on my bucket list). 

And, yes, it is a huge stretch to consider it "on piste". But consider:
1) It is a marked trail on the map of Jackson Ski Touring....which, by #acres, trail miles, and vertical drop, is one of the largest "ski areas" in North America.
2) The Wildcat Valley trail can be accessed from the Wildcat lift 
3) It drops 3,240 feet over 11 miles.
4) I would guess that it is more challenging and technical than any of the other runs mentioned so far.

Obviously, this would not be considered an on-piste run. But I can't think of any other comparable backcountry descents that are both lift serviced and listed on the trail map of a "ski area".


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## frozencorn (Jan 16, 2009)

LonghornSkier said:


> Although not on the list I think Lift Lion to Black Cat at Wildcat is my favorite trail.



It's not my favorite, per se, but I do enjoy it greatly.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 16, 2009)

Looks like I've voted already, but I'd have to say that Rumble or Liftline at Castlerock are probably the most interesting runs I've seen.  Very technical runs and very enjoyable.


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## JD (Jan 16, 2009)

The best trail in the east is any trail with the right amount of POW for the pitch and no people.


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## tipsdown (Jan 16, 2009)

I'm shocked that Saddleback is represented here.  It may be because this thread was started almost 3 years ago and it was easily overlooked.  But they probably lead the way in on-piste runs that are the closest thing to off-piste i.e Muleskinner, Dark Wizard...


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