# Smuggs, VT: 01/09/10 <3



## riverc0il (Jan 9, 2010)

WOW! I LOVE SMUGGS!!!!

Finally, after years and years of having it on the to do list, I got to Smuggs. Pity that it took me so long. Boot to knee deep untracked in the woods all day. Sensational woods!!! Liftline is by far the hardest on map trail in the east, I think it is safe to say. Mountain reported 6-8" but I think that is conservative and shots that had not been skied all week were epic to say the least! I am not going to make the call until I visit one or two more times.... but this could be my new favorite mountain. Absolutely in my top three without a doubt. Been wanting to make my first day their a good one.... today was damn special.

More later...


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2010)

how were the lift lines?  That's really my only complaint about the place.  It definitely has the goods.  

Did you venture off the back side at all?


----------



## roark (Jan 9, 2010)

Nice, still on the hit list for me. Let me know when you go again. I'll drag djspookman with us and make him show us all his secrets....


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 9, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> how were the lift lines?  That's really my only complaint about the place.  It definitely has the goods.
> 
> Did you venture off the back side at all?


The fear of lift lines had kept me away in the past and was definitely a concern today when I was heading up. However, lift lines were virtually ski on for all lifts, all day. I think I waiting one minute tops for the Madonna 1 lift. I had good vibes regarding my day selection... the weekend after and before a pair of major holidays and before the college kids are back in town as well. Hit it just right. Hard to believe lifts were ski on all day with 6-8" new and WAY more than that in the woods. Must be great mid-week after a dump.

No backside as I was alone. I was going to give it a go as I figured I would just stay skier's right and keep some tracks in sight... but I just didn't feel comfortable doing it a first time solo.


----------



## severine (Jan 9, 2010)

Nice! My aunt has a timeshare there and we were told we might be able to use it sometime. Will have to consider that now.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 9, 2010)

Okay, I had been thinking Jay today but I had a "gut feeling" that today was the right day for my first trip to Smuggs. 2.5 hour drive was not too bad, only a half hour longer than Jay and same drive time as Mansfield. Game plan was to kill the steep stuff on Madonna first and then find low angle on M2 and then head over to Sterling. I had grabbed my 8000s not knowing how much they got. Suffice to say, I switched to my Atua's for the second run. That was the only time I have ever switched up to a fatter ski, usually if I switch skis after the first run, it is a down grade.

Liftline looked incredible but I forced myself to take a warm up run first. Took Liftline on my second run even though I was not fully warmed up as I suspected conditions would deteriorate quickly. Sadly, I did not have my A game with me and this trail is unkind to the B game. You pretty much have to be comfortable with getting air to ski this trail, which is where my A game failed me. Nice audience above... makes Red Line at Magic and Chute at MRG look like Blue Squares. No kidding. Makes skiing the Headwall at Tuckerman seem like a walk in the park. My back is still sore from that run, wow!

Freefall and Robin's Run were fairly rocky. I didn't even bother with DocD's and FIS which were way bumped up. Took to the woods and man were the woods good. Boot to knee deep everywhere with drifts up to thigh deep. It was weird showing up to a mountain and not knowing how to work it or where to go... but I figured things out pretty quickly to sensational results.

This day was so full of win all around. Exploring a new mountain is such a rare thing for me and the sense of discovery was wonderful and at times even overwhelming. Chatting with a life long Smuggs skier on one lift ride, I mentioned how I used to be a pass holder at Jay and he mentioned how much he loved the trees at Jay. I was dumbfounded, Smuggs trees were way better than Jay based on my tiny sampling! It may just be a case of "grass is greener" and "familiarity breeds contempt." Or... he could have just been off his rocker.

One great thing about Smuggs is all Hall Doubles. And on every lift ride, I had an actual conversation with complete strangers from all different skiing and riding perspectives. It was pretty cool though me and one guy did disagree on the need for a high speed lift for Smuggs. Doubles suit me just fine!

Liftline... well, a little less than 20% of it and it all pretty much looks like this to varying degrees.


----------



## billski (Jan 9, 2010)

I feel bad now.    I guess the half dozen or so times I've been to Smugglers have been mediocre days and trail conditions that bordered on unloved.  I probably would have had more fun in preschool day care! 

  Maybe you just picked it right day and conditions.  I'm a bit astounded since it's right after a holiday, which I would have expected to be a mob scene and everything tracked out.  Maybe they all left before the dump.  I'll bet that's what happened.

Unlike trail lappers, I actually don't mind slow doubles at all, except on a windy rainy day!


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 9, 2010)

I think the in between holiday weekends worked to my benefit. Holiday skiers likely got out Christmas weekend, Christmas vacation week, or New Years weekend or plan to get out on MLK weekend. This was the weekend in the middle of all the holiday weekends so I think that gap effect worked out. As far as the powder, it snowed all week up there and holiday skiers are not off map tree skiers. I am dumb founded that I found staff that may have been left over from last Sunday though (knee deep+). I hit it about as right as could possibly be.


----------



## billski (Jan 9, 2010)

I'll bet tomorrow will be a nice day there too.  Cold, but nice.
I just dropped my daughter off at the airport, heading back to college.  She's planning her first ski trip with friends for spring break.  Now THAT's my idea of a spring break!


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> The fear of lift lines had kept me away in the past and was definitely a concern today when I was heading up. However, lift lines were virtually ski on for all lifts, all day. I think I waiting one minute tops for the Madonna 1 lift. I had good vibes regarding my day selection... the weekend after and before a pair of major holidays and before the college kids are back in town as well. Hit it just right. Hard to believe lifts were ski on all day with 6-8" new and WAY more than that in the woods. Must be great mid-week after a dump.
> 
> No backside as I was alone. I was going to give it a go as I figured I would just stay skier's right and keep some tracks in sight... but I just didn't feel comfortable doing it a first time solo.



Nice

You caught it just right.  Smuggs most Saturdays = 15 minute wait for Madonna, 30+ for Sterling.

Don't make the mistake of skipping the backside because you're 'alone' again.  It's incredible, but busy back there.  No different than skiing a marked glade really.

glad you finally made it to Smuggs.  Did you ski Liftline?  I agree with you that it's probably the most difficult marked run in the east.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 9, 2010)

oops, posted before I read your extended TR.  Jealous you got Liftline in the condition you di.  Rare


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 10, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> oops, posted before I read your extended TR.  Jealous you got Liftline in the condition you di.  Rare


I am somewhat trying to temper my enthusiasm with the understanding that the entire day was rare for many reasons! Indeed, Liftline skied very well and was quite powdery even on the steeps though the rocks and ledges were quite worn down. The flatter sections had boot to knee deep untracked. The first pitch was completely wind blown but was the easiest section so that was fine as well.

I can understand 15 minutes but I am surprised Sterling can back up to 30 minutes, yikes!


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 10, 2010)

Sterling is where the majority of cruising terrain is, some of their terrain parks, racing trail etc. It's also a shorter, less cold ride and provides access to most of the slack country.

It amazes me that Smuggs does so well with families despite having such issues with lift lines.    Mid-week the place is a dream, but I wont be in a hurry to return on a weekend; though I might take a look at the weekend you chose for next season if the conditions are good.


----------



## polski (Jan 10, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> 2.5 hour drive was not too bad, only a half hour longer than Jay and same drive time as Mansfield.


When you say Mansfield do you mean to differentiate from Stowe somehow? Not seeing how drive time from NH(/MA) can be same to Smuggs as to Stowe in the winter. Am I missing something? Not talking about riding a chair up Stowe and skiing over to Smuggs, either.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 10, 2010)

polski said:


> When you say Mansfield do you mean to differentiate from Stowe somehow? Not seeing how drive time from NH(/MA) can be same to Smuggs as to Stowe in the winter. Am I missing something? Not talking about riding a chair up Stowe and skiing over to Smuggs, either.


I go east to west via Route 2 to Route 15. From the intersection of Route 100 and Route 15, it is the same drive time to either mountain coming in from the north side.


----------



## polski (Jan 10, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I go east to west via Route 2 to Route 15. From the intersection of Route 100 and Route 15, it is the same drive time to either mountain coming in from the north side.


I see - because I-89 isn't a viable option for you. Coming from NE MA I can get to Stowe in ~3 hrs via 93N-89N-100N-108N. Looks to me like there wouldn't be much difference whether I did 93N-89N-100N-15W-108S or 93N-2W-15W-108S - either way probably 3:45 or so, which puts it a little beyond day-trip range for me.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 10, 2010)

polski said:


> I see - because I-89 isn't a viable option for you. Coming from NE MA I can get to Stowe in ~3 hrs via 93N-89N-100N-108N. Looks to me like there wouldn't be much difference whether I did 93N-89N-100N-15W-108S or 93N-2W-15W-108S - either way probably 3:45 or so, which puts it a little beyond day-trip range for me.


Anything north of Killington, I either go straight across NH (MRV) or up to StJ (Stowe, Smuggs, Jay, of course Burke). Killington still requires back roads to get down to West Leb. I don't drive too much highway in VT except for going to Jay.


----------



## JD (Jan 10, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> The fear of lift lines had kept me away in the past and was definitely a concern today when I was heading up. However, lift lines were virtually ski on for all lifts, all day. I think I waiting one minute tops for the Madonna 1 lift. I had good vibes regarding my day selection... the weekend after and before a pair of major holidays and before the college kids are back in town as well. Hit it just right. Hard to believe lifts were ski on all day with 6-8" new and WAY more than that in the woods. Must be great mid-week after a dump.
> 
> No backside as I was alone. I was going to give it a go as I figured I would just stay skier's right and keep some tracks in sight... but I just didn't feel comfortable doing it a first time solo.



Off the madonna ;ift skiers right, at then end of the fence.....skin back up chilcoot.  Piece of cake.  I love the notch.


----------



## 4aprice (Jan 11, 2010)

billski said:


> Now THAT's my idea of a spring break!



I spent all my spring breaks on snow usually in Colorado.

Riv:  Having spent alot of my youth at Smugglers Notch (then called Madonna Mt) I'm glad to see you had a good time there and actually got to ski Madonna Lift Line.  Doc Dempsey's used to be my favorite glade trail but when I was there a couple of seasons ago they had cleared about 50% of the trees and taken away a lot of the character.  Too bad the old interconnect with Stowe is virtually gone.  

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 11, 2010)

JD said:


> Off the madonna ;ift skiers right, at then end of the fence.....skin back up chilcoot.  Piece of cake.  I love the notch.



Why not just go straight behind the bullwheel off of Sterling---cross the pond then skiers right???? Ain't that easier???


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 11, 2010)

Riv, welcome to the Smuggs club!!!!! I too love the place---just waaaaay cool all the way around. And yes, liftline is the real deal. My fav on trailmap trail 4 sure.


----------



## skiadikt (Jan 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Makes skiing the Headwall at Tuckerman seem like a walk in the park.



huh ...


----------



## awf170 (Jan 11, 2010)

skiadikt said:


> huh ...




I assume he meant the Lip not the Headwall.  No way that run is harder than the Headwall.


----------



## kingslug (Jan 11, 2010)

Big props for skiing that line. I was there 2 years ago and it was totaly rocked and iced out, wouldn't attempt it at all. Smuggs is definately a hard core mountain!!


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 11, 2010)

awf170 said:


> I assume he meant the Lip not the Headwall.  No way that run is harder than the Headwall.


Yea, The Lip... sorry for the confusion on that one. 60* with 20 foot drops and extreme navigation Liftline at Smuggs is not!


----------



## JD (Jan 11, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Why not just go straight behind the bullwheel off of Sterling---cross the pond then skiers right???? Ain't that easier???



Well yea, but that get skiied way harder.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 11, 2010)

JD said:


> Well yea, but that get skiied way harder.



I think the both of you are talking about two entirely different slots.  Never done what you've suggested off Madonna.  Have done all the back that camp suggested and the entire ridge between Sterling and Madonna heading back towards the resort.


----------



## JD (Jan 11, 2010)

Yup.  Totally different spots.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 11, 2010)

JD said:


> Yup.  Totally different spots.



never explored the area you're talking about as I haven't been with others familiar with the area and would be concerned with going too low and ending up on the Spruce Golf Course.


----------



## JD (Jan 11, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> never explored the area you're talking about as I haven't been with others familiar with the area and would be concerned with going too low and ending up on the Spruce Golf Course.



Wrong spot.  Off of Madonna lift.  Take skier's right most trail....ski along, you'll see a huge chain linkl on the right...and peak down into the backside (away from notch road), at the end of the fence...drop into a gully with obvious cut marks.  Skin back up chillcoot to LT, turn left...rejoin ski trail a few hundred feet below where you dropped in.  Prolly and hour round trip....There are also 2 4 season shelters down in that meadow...you could drop down last run, skin up in the morning.  Berlinger and beaver meadow shelters.


----------



## powbmps (Jan 11, 2010)

Holy Sh*t, Liftline looks like an awesome run!


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 11, 2010)

JD said:


> Wrong spot.  Off of Madonna lift.  Take skier's right most trail....ski along, you'll see a huge chain linkl on the right...and peak down into the backside (away from notch road), at the end of the fence...drop into a gully with obvious cut marks.  Skin back up chillcoot to LT, turn left...rejoin ski trail a few hundred feet below where you dropped in.  Prolly and hour round trip....There are also 2 4 season shelters down in that meadow...you could drop down last run, skin up in the morning.  Berlinger and beaver meadow shelters.



got me all spun around.  :lol:

that area you're talking about is no man's land for me.  without a touring background, I suppose that would be the case for many.


----------



## JD (Jan 11, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> got me all spun around.  :lol:
> 
> that area you're talking about is no man's land for me.  without a touring background, I suppose that would be the case for many.



Exactly why the skiing is so good down in there....that's a gimme...


----------



## mondeo (Jan 12, 2010)

Was there in 8th grade or so on a bad snow year. The terrain looked incredible, just unskiable at the time. On the list of places I want to go for a midweek powder day, but Stowe and Sugarbush are up first.


----------



## JD (Jan 12, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Was there in 8th grade or so on a bad snow year. The terrain looked incredible, just unskiable at the time. On the list of places I want to go for a midweek powder day, but Stowe and Sugarbush are up first.



I think the harvest would last alot long at Smuggs then Stowe.  That place gets tracked out fast.


----------



## djspookman (Jan 12, 2010)

JD said:


> Wrong spot.  Off of Madonna lift.  Take skier's right most trail....ski along, you'll see a huge chain linkl on the right...and peak down into the backside (away from notch road), at the end of the fence...drop into a gully with obvious cut marks.  Skin back up chillcoot to LT, turn left...rejoin ski trail a few hundred feet below where you dropped in.  Prolly and hour round trip....There are also 2 4 season shelters down in that meadow...you could drop down last run, skin up in the morning.  Berlinger and beaver meadow shelters.



That area is called "beaver meadow" sick low-angle open hardwoods with some help from some local gnomes and crazy Pete.


----------



## djspookman (Jan 12, 2010)

roark said:


> Nice, still on the hit list for me. Let me know when you go again. I'll drag djspookman with us and make him show us all his secrets....



YES.  We will.  Trails only exist there to facilitate getting to the woods.  Even then, trails are not needed most of the time   I miss my old home!

dave


----------



## Mullen (Jan 12, 2010)

Yo, thanks for the great TR.  I needed some Smuggs stoke.  I haven't been up that way since two yrs ago.  A buddy of mine still works patrol there, so I've gotten a great tour of all his hidden stashes.  I'm heading up that way in February.  The stuff out back of Sterling is where it's at.  I've had some epic runs in there.  I always loved just popping out of the trees onto the notch road.  We usually just park at that upper lot and loop the back all day long.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 12, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Was there in 8th grade or so on a bad snow year. The terrain looked incredible, just unskiable at the time. On the list of places I want to go for a midweek powder day, but Stowe and Sugarbush are up first.


Smuggs > Bush or Stowe. IMO.


----------



## 4aprice (Jan 12, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Smuggs > Bush or Stowe. IMO.



Wow.  You really had a good time.  Think all 3 are A++

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


----------



## JD (Jan 12, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Smuggs > Bush or Stowe. IMO.



Tough call.  Counting Notch terrain, what is adjacent to Stowe>what is adjacent to Smuggs.....as a resort, I would probably agree.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 12, 2010)

JD said:


> Tough call.  Counting Notch terrain, what is adjacent to Stowe>what is adjacent to Smuggs.....as a resort, I would probably agree.


Should have clarified not including hike to terrain. Having only been up on the Mansfield ridge once, I really would not be qualified to compare based on that experience.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 12, 2010)

Outside of the liftlines, my only issue with Smuggs is the conditions can be far more inconsistent than Stowe or Sugarbush.  Go there on a day when the natural snow terrain isn't skiing well and you'll get bored out of your mind in a heart beat and wished you were at Okemo.

I tend to make my comparisons over what one might expect over the course of a season, not just the stellar days alone.


----------



## riverc0il (Jan 12, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I tend to make my comparisons over what one might expect over the course of a season, not just the stellar days alone.


I try to only ski (as much as possible and as much as the need to ski regardless will allow) on stellar days... so it is all the same to me. 

Kidding aside, this is why I only ski at MRG 4-5 times a year even though I am a shareholder. And why I only skied Magic 1-3 times per season when I lived in MA. But just because conditions are not always great and the mountain does not ski great without great conditions does not lessen the impression any particular mountain makes. Jay skis better than any other mountain around for trees and powder. But its terrain is lack luster. Is it a better mountain because of its consistency? It is a better mountain to ski when other ski areas are not as good for sure. Its terrain is still the same regardless, though.

Heck, I think Cannon is one of the best mountains to ski in New England but it is lack luster 90-95% of the time.


----------



## Johnskiismore (Jan 12, 2010)

Wow, what a report, it sounds awesome!  I've been to Smuggs once in high school and really didn't think much about it.  (Man I was really obtuse then!)  After reading this report I will have to go back and try again.  

Thanks!


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 12, 2010)

Leaving Jan 22 for 5 days (this is our 4th year in a row) and I've been back numerous times, even 1 time for a day trip..yes from LI!!

Smuggs is one of the best kept secrets, unreal tress (i keep discovering new areas) and some crazy steeps/rocks (robins run being one of my fav....big mtn, i've never expereinced any crowds, and sometimes i'd welcome a lift line to rest the legs....LOVE SMUGGS.  We get a condo and dont touch the car for 5 days...kids love it and talk about it all summer


----------



## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 12, 2010)

if anyone will be up there Jan 22-27 would love to hit up some bc, beers on me


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 13, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I think the both of you are talking about two entirely different slots.  Never done what you've suggested off Madonna.  Have done all the back that camp suggested and the entire ridge between Sterling and Madonna heading back towards the resort.



Yup, diff spots. I just thought being solo going off Sterling would be easier and more likley not a bad thing with the skier traffic in there.


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 13, 2010)

djspookman said:


> That area is called "beaver meadow" sick low-angle open hardwoods with some help from some local gnomes and crazy Pete.



Years ago we had a guest drop down in there sometime in the early afternoon----didn't find him until 11PM---boy was his wife PISSED!!!!!


----------



## skimore (Jan 13, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Years ago we had a guest drop down in there sometime in the early afternoon----didn't find him until 11PM---boy was his wife PISSED!!!!!


 

It amazes me how some people can have no sense of direction to tell which way to go to get back to the resort........unless this person was injured


----------



## campgottagopee (Jan 13, 2010)

skimore said:


> It amazes me how some people can have no sense of direction to tell which way to go to get back to the resort........unless this person was injured



No injury, just got down in never ever land in the dark....I can see how it could happenand I'm surprised it doesn't happen more.


----------



## bigbog (Jan 13, 2010)

guess I'll be including Smuggs in a VT roadtrip...  Great TR _*river*_.


----------

