# Audi



## SKIQUATTRO (Aug 29, 2007)

2002 AUDI A4 AVANT 5 SPD
QUATTRO
SPORT PKG
LEATHER
SUNROOF
6 DISK IN DASH CD CHANGER
XEONS
HEATED SEATS (ALL 4)
HEATED MIRRORS
HEATED WINDSHIELD FLUID
NEW CONTIXTREME TIRES
NEW BRAKES
60 K MILES
SERVICED BY AUDI OF HUNTINGTON, NY (LONG ISLD)
PROFESSIONALLY DETAILED 2X/YEAR
EXT COLOR: RED
INT COLOR: BLACK
CLEAN RECORD, NO ACCIDENTS, NO DAMAGE, NO REPAIRS

Unbelievable Ski Car..I also have full Thule racks mounted with accessories (extra)

PM ME OR CALL 516 835 1588


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## SkiDog (Aug 29, 2007)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> Unbelievable Ski Car..I also have full Thule racks mounted with accessories (extra)



Why ya dumping it? I loved my Audi, but in all honesty after the factory warranty was up things started to go...and the repair costs are through the roof because of the name....I did like it though...

Good luck.

M


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 29, 2007)

Price???  I want an Audi as my next car but I want a new one..or maybe like 3 months old..after 60k miles, that's when expensive maintenence occurs..


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## SkiDog (Aug 29, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Price???  I want an Audi as my next car but I want a new one..or maybe like 3 months old..after 60k miles, that's when expensive maintenence occurs..



YOU SAID IT......

Im thinking this is why its going bye bye from SKIQUATTRO...i sold mine and know the owner I sold to (dad)....he had to do control arms...clutch...and a bunch of other things......sold it at just over 100K (my dad that is) and I think got like $6K....

I think the actual Audi dealer serviced 60K "tune up" is near a grand.

If you lease a NEW audi and give it back after the FULL SERVICE (which is awesome they pay for everything but tires) warranty ends you got a great car...just dont buy at lease end...

That is all.
M


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 29, 2007)

Leasing is the way to go..


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## SkiDog (Aug 29, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Leasing is the way to go..



Thats what I did...however I DID make the mistake of buying it after the lease end...won't do that again....

Smart Audi drivers buy USED if they are buying...Audi doesnt have the best reputation for resale.

M


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 29, 2007)

I thought Audis had a high residual value????


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2007)

I had an A6 for about two years and loved it, but WAY to expensive to maintain.  Sure leasing is great if you put under 12K miles a year on a vehicle, but I think I've done that a total of one time since I graduated high school.  25-30K is the norm for a year for me.

I traded my 99' in with 102K miles and got 5500 towards my 07' Hyundai Sonata, which I love.  Unless I hit the lotto, I'm sticking to Japanese or Korean cars or American SUV's.  Before the Audi, I had a Ford Explorer that I beat the crap out of an ran until 198K miles and it had half the problems of the Audi and a quarter the repair costs.


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## wintersyndrome (Aug 30, 2007)

would you have to change your name to "skiArmada" ?


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## drjeff (Aug 30, 2007)

My wife's on her 3rd Audi lease.  She usually does a 3 or so year (I believe she gets a 39 month) lease for 60K miles.  Turns them in and gets a new one right around the big service mark.  

As the family's grown, we've gone from the A4 to the A6 and now the Q7.  Loved them all and they've been real dependable for us.  

The only things that we haven't liked about them, is with her A4 (an '02 model) the cup holders weren't big enough for a 20oz soda bottle and/or a large coffee cup - nussance stuff - and more annoying is the roof rack on the Q7 - you can't mount any kind of rack system to it as of yet with how the engineers designed it :angry:


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## skibum1321 (Aug 30, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Leasing is the way to go..



That goes against the advice of pretty much every expert out there. For me leasing would be a huge waste of money since I drive 25000+ miles per year. Also, you have constant car payments. Sure your monthly payments are lower, but you never actually own a car. Leasing is really only an option if you don't drive a lot of miles or if you are willing to pay a ton extra for putting on a bunch of miles. Buying low mileage used cars tends to be a better option if you drive lots of miles. For the most part, your repair costs won't be anything compared to the cost of monthly payments.
Also, if you need a car to be absolutely reliable then leasing is probably a good option because you always have a fairly new car and a lower chance of breakdowns.
This is all from someone that cares more about having a cheap, reliable, efficient car (Mazda3) than the latest and greatest or some $30,000 car or some super duper SUV that gets 5mpg.


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## Greg (Aug 30, 2007)

skibum1321 said:


> That goes against the advice of pretty much every expert out there. For me leasing would be a huge waste of money since I drive 25000+ miles per year. Also, you have constant car payments. Sure your monthly payments are lower, but you never actually own a car. Leasing is really only an option if you don't drive a lot of miles or if you are willing to pay a ton extra for putting on a bunch of miles. Buying low mileage used cars tends to be a better option if you drive lots of miles. For the most part, your repair costs won't be anything compared to the cost of monthly payments.
> Also, if you need a car to be absolutely reliable then leasing is probably a good option because you always have a fairly new car and a lower chance of breakdowns.
> This is all from someone that cares more about having a cheap, reliable, efficient car (Mazda3) than the latest and greatest or some $30,000 car or some super duper SUV that gets 5mpg.



Agreed. I put about 18K a year on my cars. The key to buying is try to get something you are willing to drive for 7-10+ years. My 8 year old Cherokee has 140,000+ miles on it and it still runs like a champ. I want to get 18-24 more month out of it.


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## ctenidae (Aug 30, 2007)

Leasing works for me because we put about 8K miles a year on our car, if that. It's fun getting a new car every few years, too, especially as mpg increases and emissions lessen.


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## WWF-VT (Aug 30, 2007)

I have an 2001 A6 2.8 Quattro Wagon.  So far no big service bills.  Stopped using local dealers and now have my car worked on exclusively at Brian's Garage in Needham, MA.   Dramatically lower cost than dealers and they are Audi/VW pros


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## drjeff (Aug 30, 2007)

skibum1321 said:


> That goes against the advice of pretty much every expert out there. For me leasing would be a huge waste of money since I drive 25000+ miles per year. Also, you have constant car payments. Sure your monthly payments are lower, but you never actually own a car. Leasing is really only an option if you don't drive a lot of miles or if you are willing to pay a ton extra for putting on a bunch of miles. Buying low mileage used cars tends to be a better option if you drive lots of miles. For the most part, your repair costs won't be anything compared to the cost of monthly payments.
> Also, if you need a car to be absolutely reliable then leasing is probably a good option because you always have a fairly new car and a lower chance of breakdowns.
> This is all from someone that cares more about having a cheap, reliable, efficient car (Mazda3) than the latest and greatest or some $30,000 car or some super duper SUV that gets 5mpg.



In my wife's lease situation, for the extra miles on her lease, payment ends up being essentially the same as if we bought the car.  The 2 main reasons we started leasing her vehicles now 5 years ago is 1) at the tiem we were a kid-less couple and new that would be changing soon, so the space needs for her ride were going to be changing - hence our progession up in the car size  2) Her last pre-audi car - a 4 year old Honda Accord ended up with a horrendous and very expensive maintenance record and she didn't want anything to do with that.  Either way with the maintenance program Audi offered she's just be paying for gas and tires if needed and that was very appealing to her.  If we were not going to need more space, we probably would have bought the 1st one out right.

Now, she likes getting a new vehicle every few years.  She's actually on her 3rd new one since I got my last SUV.  This way I figure she can't give me any grief if when by beloved Trailblazer finally has had enough (140K almost problem free and counting on it now), she can't give me any grief if I want to get a few extra options on my next vehicle


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 30, 2007)

With leasing..I can keep my money in the bank and do a zero down low milage lease.  Drive as much as I want..have low payments for three years...Take the option to buy...drive the car a little more..and sell privately...then start over again..It works well for me..I'm on my 4th lease..


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Aug 30, 2007)

I don't think it's a philosophical question ("to lease or not to lease").  Leasing has worked for me with cheap cars, because the intial downpayment is really low, as well as the monthly payments.  

Generally speaking, I like the flexibility of being able to walk away and get a new car again.

When I start looking to pimp my ride someday, I think it'll be a simple question of what's cheaper.  But, I'd have to think long and hard before plunking down $2500 or $3000 just for the right to lease a car.  It'd start feeling like throwing money out the window....


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## skibum1321 (Aug 30, 2007)

As with most other things, it's all about what works for your individual situation. There is no right or wrong answer as whether leasing or buying is better. It's a very similar debate as the "rent vs buy" debate for housing. It all depends on the situation...


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> With leasing..I can keep my money in the bank and do a zero down low milage lease.  Drive as much as I want..have low payments for three years...Take the option to buy...drive the car a little more..and sell privately...then start over again..It works well for me..I'm on my 4th lease..



Drive as much as you want?  The only reasonable leases I've seen advetised are ones where you are allowed 12K miles per year, 15k at the most.


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## JimG. (Aug 30, 2007)

skibum1321 said:


> As with most other things, it's all about what works for your individual situation. There is no right or wrong answer as whether leasing or buying is better. It's a very similar debate as the "rent vs buy" debate for housing. It all depends on the situation...



Exactly...I drive roughly 40,000 miles a year between work, my kids' travel soccer, and sking.

Leasing never worked for me...I'd get killed on the mileage overage fees.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 30, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> Drive as much as you want?  The only reasonable leases I've seen advetised are ones where you are allowed 12K miles per year, 15k at the most.



But I'm going into a lease with the intention of taking the option to buy at the end and then resell it myself..So even though I sign up for a 12k a year lease to keep my payments low..I can still drive 20k a year..


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## SKIQUATTRO (Aug 30, 2007)

i've never had issues with any of my Audi's....just getting rid of it as the wife wants the A4 convertable....I have a Nissan Armada and the Audi, love em both....this is a beautiful ride, it always gets comments and I'm sad to let her go.....


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## SKIQUATTRO (Aug 30, 2007)

some pics


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## bvibert (Aug 31, 2007)

For all you guys who claim high maintenance costs on Audi's; What exactly did you have to fix that cost so much?  I've heard this a lot, but never any specific examples to back it up...


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## deadheadskier (Aug 31, 2007)

bvibert said:


> For all you guys who claim high maintenance costs on Audi's; What exactly did you have to fix that cost so much?  I've heard this a lot, but never any specific examples to back it up...



for me, it was the Air Bag computer.  It cost me $150 to diagnoze the problem, and if I had chosen to get it installed, it was going to be $1600.  At 100K miles, I also had my front control arms go and I would have had to replace all 4 tires because of a nick in one of them.  The last thing obviously is all wheel drive specific, but is an expense none the less.  Overall, I would've had to have sunk $2800 into it to get inspected for those three things.  I said no thanks, that's 10 months worth of car payments on a new car.


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## Paul (Sep 3, 2007)

dibs on the screen name...


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## ski220 (Sep 22, 2007)

10 months payments on what kind of car though????   An S4 is the way to go if you are seriuos about getting powder.  Chip it too.  But an A4 will do in a pinch.  Nobody makes an all wheel drive like an Audi.  You don't want to flying off the highway during a blizzard.  All cars have their issues.  You just have to decide what is important for you.  Skiing powder is for me.


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## snoseek (Sep 23, 2007)

I don't want to sound like an ass but what is so great about awd-4wd. any front wheel drive car gets me to the same powder as the next guy. seems like a lot of x-tra $$$$ for peice of mind. spend less money=work less=ski more.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 23, 2007)

snoseek said:


> I don't want to sound like an ass but what is so great about awd-4wd. any front wheel drive car gets me to the same powder as the next guy. seems like a lot of x-tra $$$$ for peice of mind. spend less money=work less=ski more.





Before I had my current 2006 Subaru Impreza I always drove FWD vehicles....the AWD is far superior in snow..it's more stable..and much less likely to get stuck since all four wheel spin..Whether I have an Audi or a Hyundai..I still work the same..:smash:just less $$$ in the bank..but I get to the powder quicker and more confidently with AWD...Why do people use powder skis when straight skis work just fine..because they're better..lol


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## deadheadskier (Sep 24, 2007)

ski220 said:


> 10 months payments on what kind of car though????   An S4 is the way to go if you are seriuos about getting powder.  Chip it too.  But an A4 will do in a pinch.  Nobody makes an all wheel drive like an Audi.  You don't want to flying off the highway during a blizzard.  All cars have their issues.  You just have to decide what is important for you.  Skiing powder is for me.



A lot of cars - $300 a month is an average payment for a car in the 20K range if you have good credit.

Trust me, I'd drive an S4 if money wasn't an option, hell, I'd drive an RS4 if that was the case.  Don't get me wrong, they are my favorite brand of vehicle on the road, but their maintenance history is SH$% compated to Japanese or Korean vehicles.  

They are a wealthy man's car as are BMW's, Mercedes, anything from Europe.  It really has always suprised me that cars such as these that perform so well have such crap track records for maintenance.  They really need to keep doing what they do well with their engines, breaks, suspension and styling then through a few mil at some Japanese engineers to handle the electrical work.


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## severine (Sep 25, 2007)

Jap crap isn't perfect either.  I had a co-worker who was always tossing a couple-few thousand at a time into her Toyota to fix it.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 25, 2007)

severine said:


> Jap crap isn't perfect either.  I had a co-worker who was always tossing a couple-few thousand at a time into her Toyota to fix it.




oh no car comes without faults, there's always a chance you get a lemon, but in general, maintenance history speaks for itself and over the past twenty years, the Japanese hands down have built the most trouble free reliable vehicles.  There's a reason why Toyota is the number one automaker in the world and that is the reason.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 25, 2007)

Yes, Japanese cars were hands down more reliable in the 80s and 90s, but things are changing....It's time to stop over-generalizing.

For overall mechanical quality, JD Power recently ranked the brands as follows:


Lexus
BMW (yes, a German is #2)
Buick (USA #3!)
Honda
Infiniti
Lincoln 
Mercedes-Benz 
Mercury (3rd American in top 10)
Porsche (3rd German in top 10)
Toyota (#10....4th Japanese in top 10)
Acura
Audi
Cadillac
Chevrolet
Ford
GMC
HUMMER
Hyundai
Jaguar
Kia
Nissan
Pontiac
Saab
Saturn
Scion
Subaru (a favorite of AZ is way down the list, quality-wise)
Volvo
Chrysler
Dodge
Jeep
Land Rover
Mazda
Mitsubishi
Suzuki
Volkswagen (ouch)

http://www.jdpower.com/util/ratings/results.aspx?study_id=207&vertical=Autos&order=1&orderDir=2


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## Marc (Sep 25, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Yes, Japanese cars were hands down more reliable in the 80s and 90s, but things are changing....It's time to stop over-generalizing.
> 
> For overall mechanical quality, JD Power recently ranked the brands as follows:
> 
> ...



Well those are recent rankings.  I doubt everyone here drives MY 2007 cars.  The other suspect thing about that list is the placement of VW and Audi, considering how many parts they share as well as the same parent company (VAG).


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## sledhaulingmedic (Sep 25, 2007)

After working sellng and marketing vehicle leasing and services, I really only see a few situations where leasing  personal vehicles makes any sense.  Generally, it's a low mileage situation for someone who insists on having a new vehicle every several years.  That's not me.  Though my mileage is down a little ths year, I've been around 25,000/yr for the last 20 years or so.  I don't need a new car.  I'll buy used, pay cash and run it to 150 - 200K.  I take good care of it, and when things need to get fixed, I fix them.  It's the most economical for me, by a long shot.  Other might rather spend more for the peace of mind of a new car.

I'm just curious, how does J.D. Power define quality in their survey?  Fewest repairs? Least costly repair?  Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but maintenance and repairs are two different issues.  (Unless you don't do the mainainence...)  If it doesn't breakdown, it shouldn't cost anything to fix.  Maintainance, like brakes, shocks, etc might be very expensive.  (I had a Subaru in college that had the parking brakes on the front calipers, I almost croked when I had to do the front brakes at 100K).  Is a better measure the cost of ownership? (or does that put too much weight on the aquisition price?)


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## snoseek (Sep 25, 2007)

girlfriend drives a honda now approaching 300,000 miles. regular maitenence and normal stuff like exhaust ect... no big thing, car runs excellent. timing belt was just replaced for the third time.


also how reliable is jd power (buick #3) ? these seem way off from consumer reports (which i personally trust).


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 25, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Yes, Japanese cars were hands down more reliable in the 80s and 90s, but things are changing....It's time to stop over-generalizing.
> 
> For overall mechanical quality, JD Power recently ranked the brands as follows:
> 
> ...



I guess I'm getting a Lexus..


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## deadheadskier (Sep 25, 2007)

Marc said:


> Well those are recent rankings.  I doubt everyone here drives MY 2007 cars.  The other suspect thing about that list is the placement of VW and Audi, considering how many parts they share as well as the same parent company (VAG).



Likewise with Lexus and Toyota.  Same company


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## ctenidae (Sep 25, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> Likewise with Lexus and Toyota.  Same company



And Honda and Acura.
My TSX is an Accord in Europe.


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## Marc (Sep 25, 2007)

And Buick, Hummer, Chevy, Saab, Pontiac, Saturn, GMC, Cadillac and all others owned by GM... Nissan goes with Infiniti.  Ford/Lincoln/Mercury (same cars) and Ford also owns Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover... Toyota makes Scion's.  Then you have all the Chrysler companies who was also owned by Daimler Benz until recently (MB's).  It's becoming very tricky to know what cars are made with what parts... and where and by whom.

The majors really now look like this:

US: General Motors, Chrysler, Ford
Japan: Toyota, Honda, Nissan (Mitsu and Subie, to a lesser extent)
Germany: BMW, VAG (VW/Audi) and MB


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## snoseek (Sep 25, 2007)

just did a quick search on jd power. it looks like their ratings are based on consumer surveys with not much else. consumer reports actually does their own testing which to me would seem much more accurate. what is the average age of a buick or lincoln driver? how much are they driving?


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## ctenidae (Sep 25, 2007)

snoseek said:


> what is the average age of a buick or lincoln driver? how much are they driving?



One owner, sne she just drove it to church on Sundays.
I doubt many Lincolns ae sold to consumers. Seems to be the fleet car of choice ofr limo services.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Sep 25, 2007)

Buick and Lincoln owners are the ones buying tombstones from me who shouldn't be driving anymore..


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## hammer (Feb 15, 2009)

Bit of a long bump, but I just test drove the following used Audis:


2007 A4, ~34K miles
2006 A6, ~43K miles
I thought both cars were quite nice...the A4 was a bit tight in the back seat but was the more fun of the two cars to drive IMO.  Both cars seemed to be very solid and rode real nice on the highway.

Does anyone know how easy it is to get a decent roof rack for the Audis?

I'm hoping to check out some other used AWD sedans now...Acura and Lexus also have AWD sedans so they might be another option...


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## ski220 (Feb 15, 2009)

hammer said:


> .
> 
> Does anyone know how easy it is to get a decent roof rack for the Audis?
> 
> I'm hoping to check out some other used AWD sedans now...Acura and Lexus also have AWD sedans so they might be another option...



I believe they sell an Audi dealer rack at the least (or expensive).

Just about every manufactuer makes an AWD sedan these days.  So you can really just chose what you want - Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Acura TL, even a Ford Fusion and lots of funky stuff from Japan.  

Are the others driive systems as good as an Audi?


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## hammer (Feb 15, 2009)

ski220 said:


> Are the others drive systems as good as an Audi?


Good question...

I have always liked how the Subaru AWD system responded on my Outback, and the AWD on my Toyota Highlander is OK but not as good as the Subaru.  I'm not sure about other systems, however...

I do want to check further into the Acura's system...I had an Integra years ago and it was a great car.


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## marcski (Feb 15, 2009)

hammer said:


> Good question...
> 
> I have always liked how the Subaru AWD system responded on my Outback, and the AWD on my Toyota Highlander is OK but not as good as the Subaru.  I'm not sure about other systems, however...
> 
> I do want to check further into the Acura's system...I had an Integra years ago and it was a great car.



Audi and Subaru have been making them the longest and IMHO are probably the 2 best.  

I, too will be looking into the new Acura TL with their SHAWD system, when the time comes for me to replace my current ride...but that won't be for another 2.5 years or so.  I had an older TL and while it was a very good car and did everything very good...it didn't have enough feedback, both audible and "feel" wise through the steering and suspension.  

My wife drives an Acura MDX with I believe the same or similar SHAWD system.  I haven't driven it in a huge storm, but it has done quite nicely in some bad road situations.  Also, it is both louder and much stiffer than my old TL.  It is almost too stiff suspension wise for me..I'm used to a sedan these days.  Also, the mileage is horrendous. It gets about 14.5 mpg regardless of highway or local driving.  Our older Jeep Grand Cherokee would get into the low 20's in 2wd and 18 or 19 in awd. Plus, you could lock the hubs and get true 4wd.  I don't think any vehicle I've ever driven has been better in the snow than that old grand cherokee.


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## billski (Feb 16, 2009)

hammer said:


> Bit of a long bump, but I just test drove the following used Audis:
> 
> 
> 2007 A4, ~34K miles
> ...


 
I have an 06 A6 Quattro. I bought it with skiing and commuting in mind. I gave up on getting a roof rack. Nobody had anything for it (Audi, thule, Yaki), I'd have to gerry-rig something else and it wasn't worth it. Last checked about 6 months ago. Really wanted a ski pass thru (I avoid racks for the most part) which would allow me 4 passengers, but compromised with the split seat, which will carry 3 adults.

With the right snow tires on it, it's built for cold weather (The fog lights, the incredible defroster, strong heater, heated seats, stability and traction control, AWD) make it a pleasure to drive in snow, steep hills, icy transition zones, etc. Driven through several storms now and I couldn't ask for a more controlled, enjoyable ride. 

The Audis have a lot of "unspoken features" that you only discover after owning them for a while.  Like closing the windows and roof when you are out of the car and it's raining, or that the steering tightens as you driver faster, or that the tune volume adjusts depending on the ambient cabin noise.  Things I really don't need and didn't want, but it's fun.

You didn't ask, but I bought it because of the styling and design. I have driven Japanese cars for the past 14 years and was getting rather bored with them.

I did put a bike rack on the trunk back, which works out fine.


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## marcski (Feb 16, 2009)

billski said:


> I have an 06 A6 Quattro. I bought it with skiing and commuting in mind. I gave up on getting a roof rack. Nobody had anything for it (Audi, thule, Yaki), I'd have to gerry-rig something else and it wasn't worth it. Last checked about 6 months ago. Really wanted a ski pass thru (I avoid racks for the most part) which would allow me 4 passengers, but compromised with the split seat, which will carry 3 adults.
> 
> With the right snow tires on it, it's built for cold weather (The fog lights, the incredible defroster, strong heater, heated seats, stability and traction control, AWD) make it a pleasure to drive in snow, steep hills, icy transition zones, etc. Driven through several storms now and I couldn't ask for a more controlled, enjoyable ride.
> 
> ...



Bill Audi definitely makes a factory rack for your car.  They are a bit pricey but will say audi and have the four interlocked circles on the bar towers.


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## Geoff (Feb 16, 2009)

hammer said:


> Bit of a long bump, but I just test drove the following used Audis:
> 
> 
> 2007 A4, ~34K miles
> ...




Unless I had access to a mechanic, I wouldn't buy a used Audi unless it were CPO with a lengthy warranty.  

I'm a rack non-believer.  Skis belong inside away from road salt.  I don't want to pay the fuel economy penalty all winter.  For summer use, a bolt-on receiver hitch for the bike rack and other accessories.

Most people are better served with a FWD car with good snow tires.  You can buy a winter beater SUV for next to nothing for those few times you want the 4WD system, ground clearance, the interior space, or the towing capability.


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## hammer (Feb 17, 2009)

Geoff said:


> Unless I had access to a mechanic, I wouldn't buy a used Audi unless it were CPO with a lengthy warranty.


I am aware of Audi's reliability issues...but if I was going to pay in the neighborhood of $20-$25K for a used car I'd go with a CPO regardless of make.
Audi's CPOs extend the basic warranty to $100K miles IIRC...seems decent.


Geoff said:


> I'm a rack non-believer. Skis belong inside away from road salt. I don't want to pay the fuel economy penalty all winter. For summer use, a bolt-on receiver hitch for the bike rack and other accessories.


I'm not big on having skis outside either...that's why I have a box for my skis.  I keep it on my Subaru all winter and just take the ~2 MPG hit.


Geoff said:


> Most people are better served with a FWD car with good snow tires. You can buy a winter beater SUV for next to nothing for those few times you want the 4WD system, ground clearance, the interior space, or the towing capability.


I've read plenty about FWD with snows vs. AWD...I should most likely put snows on my AWD vehicles at some point but I don't at this time.


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## Glenn (Feb 17, 2009)

I like the newer (2005 and up) bodystyle A6. We have an 02 and like billski mentioned, you end up finding out a lot about it after owning it for a bit.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 17, 2009)

never had any issues with any of my audis (i've had 3)...reliability has been flawless.

my buddy has had more issues with his ford expediton than i've had with any of my audis.

Sure any car by any manufacture at anytime can have issues...

my 08 Volvo XC70 has been in the shop more then i've driven it...


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## billski (Feb 18, 2009)

I'm not so convinced on the reliability issue.  One of my ski buds has a 10 year old A4 that he commutes on every day and daytrip skis every week in the winter.  Never had anything major break, he did invest in a new timing belt.    I bought mine 1 year old used, saved $12K from a lease it was in Florida of all places (a quattro with heated seats!)  20K miles.  It now has 60K, I have only invested in brakes and tires.    Interestingly, while normal wear and tear items, such as wiper blades, synthetic oil and brakes are more expensive, they last longer.  I suspect if I amortized it by miles, it would come out cheaper, but I haven't done the math.  It certainly means I spend less time maintaining it.

A lot of buying used has to do with the previous owner.   If you can't figure out the prior owner, go by type of car.   I would never think of buying an S4 or an entry-level small car - those things definitely get abused by younger, high testosterone crowd.  The more expensive cars are driven far more gently, as a rule.   That was my thinking on buying a used A6, and I've been pleased with the decision.

At this point, I plan to keep it into the high 100s miles.  I pretty much baby my cars (my daughter drives my 220K mile prior car), so we'll see.


----------



## marcski (Feb 18, 2009)

I think for the most part if anything is going to go wrong with an Audi it will be electric related.  The cars drive great, but I've had some issues with different Audis over the years I've owned them...all electric related.


----------



## hammer (Feb 18, 2009)

billski said:


> I'm not so convinced on the reliability issue.  One of my ski buds has a 10 year old A4 that he commutes on every day and daytrip skis every week in the winter.  Never had anything major break, he did invest in a new timing belt.    I bought mine 1 year old used, saved $12K from a lease it was in Florida of all places (a quattro with heated seats!)  20K miles.  It now has 60K, I have only invested in brakes and tires.
> 
> A lot of buying used has to do with the previous owner.   If you can't figure out the prior owner, go by type of car.   I would never think of buying an S4 or an entry-level small car - those things definitely get abused by younger, high testosterone crowd.  The more expensive cars are driven far more gently, as a rule.   That was my thinking on buying a used A6, and I've been pleased with the decision.


Would you say that an A4 would still be OK?  If we were to get a CPO Audi, I'd lean toward the A4...I did like the A6 but the A4 had a bit more "fun factor".

My plan is to ask my mechanic about his experiences with Audis...while I'd still plan on going to the dealer for warranty-related stuff I'd rather take my cars to an independent shop that can work on them.


----------



## billski (Feb 18, 2009)

marcski said:


> I think for the most part if anything is going to go wrong with an Audi it will be electric related.  The cars drive great, but I've had some issues with different Audis over the years I've owned them...all electric related.



I would suspect the same.  The new models now have so many computers and functions in them that I've nearly experienced the windows blue screen of death sometimes, where a feature just freezes and won't work until you re-boot the car.  That happened with the telephone bluetooth connection.  I just hope it's not related to the actual operation of the car.


----------



## billski (Feb 18, 2009)

I understand the 3 year 50K included service was discontinued after model year 2006.  They were trying to pump up sales.
Of the two cars you describe, I'd be comfortable with either one AFTER I had an independent mechanic check it out (and pay him/her to do it.)


2007 A4, ~34K miles
2006 A6, ~43K miles
I took mine to the dealer until I reached 50K, so did my bud.  then I went to an independent dealer.

One thing I can say is to do due diligence with service from independents for 2006+ service.  The models 2006+ have far more sophistication in their design, and require a boatload of new diagnostic tools.  For example, the emergency brake is electronic/by-wire.  It requires a special electronic device to reset the brakes properly.  Means the indi has to buy it.  Either that or see if joe the tire shop can do brakes jobs on new audis.  

I found an indi who worked at a new dealer for a long time and is very good, but they are just getting up to speed on the new designs, since they haven't been in production and just starting to deal with the extended service.  Something to keep in mind.  Would not dissuade me from buying again.  I suspect many of the cars are doingt this, just go in with your eyes wide open.

p.s.  I didn't need a brake job until 58K miles.


----------



## billski (Feb 18, 2009)

One more thing about CPO, I didn't think it was worth the money.  I thought it was far cheaper to pay someone to inspect it inside out.

This review http://www.boston.com/cars/car_reviews/articles/2009/02/14/audis_a6_offers_subtle_virtues/ from last week agrees with you about the fun factor.  I'm more of a stick in the mud when it comes to cars.  My car is utility for me.


----------



## Glenn (Feb 18, 2009)

hammer said:


> Would you say that an A4 would still be OK?  If we were to get a CPO Audi, I'd lean toward the A4...I did like the A6 but the A4 had a bit more "fun factor".
> 
> My plan is to ask my mechanic about his experiences with Audis...while I'd still plan on going to the dealer for warranty-related stuff I'd rather take my cars to an independent shop that can work on them.



I deal with these guys: www.northbayimports.com  Luckily, they're only about 30 minutes from where we live. They buy all their cars from Audi/VW credit; the leasing company owned by Audi/VW. So pretty much anything you look at is going to be a few years old and an off lease vehicle. All their techs came from Audi/VW dealers. Great sales, great service.


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## Geoff (Feb 18, 2009)

billski said:


> p.s.  I didn't need a brake job until 58K miles.



I put 130,000 on the front brakes of my last GTI.  The rears lasted around 60K.  Brake life is wholly a function of how you drive the car and how you use it.


----------



## billski (Feb 18, 2009)

marcski said:


> I think for the most part if anything is going to go wrong with an Audi it will be electric related.  The cars drive great, but I've had some issues with different Audis over the years I've owned them...all electric related.





Geoff said:


> I put 130,000 on the front brakes of my last GTI.  The rears lasted around 60K.  Brake life is wholly a function of how you drive the car and how you use it.



you're joking, no?  130K?  I've never heard of anything going that long.  Really?  Were they operating normally the whole time?  What kind of driving did you do?  Hilly roads?


----------



## Geoff (Feb 18, 2009)

billski said:


> you're joking, no?  130K?  I've never heard of anything going that long.  Really?  Were they operating normally the whole time?  What kind of driving did you do?  Hilly roads?



I was living on the NH coast.  I had a 40 mile each way commute in minimal traffic that was 2/3 highway and only had a few traffic lights & stop signs.  My Killington drive was 120 miles of highway and 30 miles on Route 4 where you rarely touch the brakes.  If you're in the right gear all the time with a manual transmission, you don't use the brakes very often.  Until recently, I pretty much lived at 80mph on the highway and speed limit + 10 on secondary roads.  You can't do that in Vermont since the state police and local towns are now using speeding tickets as a revenue source.  I now use the cruise control and go the speed limit until I get out of the state.

I'd never gotten anything like 130K out of front brakes before.  I've driven a lot of heavy SUVs over the years that chew through front pads and rotors in around 50,000 miles.

I drive down the Killington access road every day without using the brakes.  I put the car in a lower gear.  I drive most of the time the same way I snow drive where I use the engine to control speed and rarely touch the brakes unless I need to come to a complete stop.  From observation of other drivers, I think most are unaware that their automatic transmission has any setting other than "D".


----------



## tjf67 (Feb 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I put 130,000 on the front brakes of my last GTI.  The rears lasted around 60K.  Brake life is wholly a function of how you drive the car and how you use it.



Are you sure you dont have that reversed.  I have never seen front brakes last longer than back breaks.  I just replaced my back breaks after 146k miles.


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## hammer (Feb 18, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Are you sure you dont have that reversed.  I have never seen front brakes last longer than back breaks.  I just replaced my back breaks after 146k miles.


It's not common, but it can happen...my 1990 Acura Integra went through rear brakes every 35K miles and the fronts lasted over 60K.

I commute in the Boston area over 20 miles each way to work, so I end up being hard on brakes...:sad:


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## danny p (Feb 18, 2009)

my 1998 vw gti 5-spd went over 100,000 without replacing any of the brakes...but it was one of the first repairs my friend had to make when I sold it to him.


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## Geoff (Feb 18, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Are you sure you dont have that reversed.  I have never seen front brakes last longer than back breaks.  I just replaced my back breaks after 146k miles.



It's apparently fairly common in Volkswagens.  The rears go quicker than the fronts and the rear rotors go in the dumpster when you change pads.  I imagine the pads and rotors are much beefier in the front so they live longer.  With other cars I've owned, it was always the other way around where the rears lasted forever and you chewed through fronts every 50K.


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## bvibert (Feb 18, 2009)

Geoff said:


> It's apparently fairly common in Volkswagens.  The rears go quicker than the fronts and the rear rotors go in the dumpster when you change pads.  I imagine the pads and rotors are much beefier in the front so they live longer.  With other cars I've owned, it was always the other way around where the rears lasted forever and you chewed through fronts every 50K.



It seems to be that way with the newer VWs at least, my old GTI would go through fronts quicker than the rears.  I think I read something somewhere that they bias more pressure towards the rear than most cars and that's why the rears wear quicker.  I'm not sure if that's true, or if it even makes any sense, but that's what I read.


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## Glenn (Feb 18, 2009)

The MKIV A chasis VW's had an issue with the rear brakes; mainly the rotors. I can't remembr if the rotors were soft, or if they used a hard OEM pad. Regardless, people were replacing their rear rotors in as little as 50-60k. Which is nothing for rear brakes. Rears should last a lot longer than that.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Apr 8, 2009)

Back on the market

**new tires/alignment 4/7/09**
Conti ExtremeContacts

Contact me...great ski car, great gas mileage, Quattro will get you to the mountain in any conditions!!

my 6yr old is screaming for me to get a jeep to tool around town in, thats why i'm selling.


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## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:


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## billski (Apr 8, 2009)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> my 6yr old is screaming for me to get a jeep to tool around town in, thats why i'm selling.



huh?  Your 6YO is calling the car shots????   :blink:


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## billski (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:



Sound like the same arrogance I encountered in Detroit in 1981.  GM Management was more concerned with their own self-interest than doing what's right for the customer.  I know this first-hand.   If they had a quality product then, I would have bought.  Not.   They had plenty of time to get with program.


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## Warp Daddy (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:



BUY Quality NOT Nationalism or Unionism  --------------------- end of story


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## hammer (Apr 8, 2009)

billski said:


> huh?  Your 6YO is calling the car shots????   :blink:


My 12YO daughter would like us to get a convertible punch buggy...no way that's going to happen...


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## hammer (Apr 8, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> BUY Quality NOT Nationalism or Unionism  --------------------- end of story


+1

What about all of the people to shop at Walmart (yes and I'm guilty on occasion)?


----------



## mlctvt (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:



What's foreign? 
Many Chevys have less American content than a US built Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Subaru.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:



My Subi was built in the US, so was the Toyota Truck I had before that.


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## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

Can't talk to much politics. 
Their companies get stronger-ours get weaker.
Trade in your dependency on foreign oil for dependency on foreign manufacturing,
Just like rome we are falling asleep.
I hope you lose your jobs. :flag:


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 8, 2009)

Unfortunately  truth be known MANY of "our" companies are Multi-national today------ so what is 100% American  is mostly mythical .


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## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Unfortunately  truth be known MANY of "our" companies are Multi-national today------ so what is 100% American  is mostly mythical .



So a black guy from jersey can climb his way all the way to the top of toyota in japan? :flag:


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## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> My Subi was built in the US, so was the Toyota Truck I had before that.



Gotta love the heritage of toyota trucks :flame:


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## Terry (Apr 8, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> What's foreign?
> Many Chevys have less American content than a US built Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Subaru.



I have 3 vehicles in my yard. A chevy pickup, a dodge spirit, and a honda accord. Guess witch on is made in the US?


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## o3jeff (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:


I would rather not support the union which is well on its way of putting the big 3 workers out of jobs.


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## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

Terry said:


> I have 3 vehicles in my yard. A chevy pickup, a dodge spirit, and a honda accord. Guess witch on is made in the US?



I have 3 vehicles in my yard also. a chevy pickup, a ford pickup, and a cadillac. all three made here.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> Can't talk to much politics.
> Their companies get stronger-ours get weaker.
> Trade in your dependency on foreign oil for dependency on foreign manufacturing,
> Just like rome we are falling asleep.
> I hope you lose your jobs. :flag:



Good companies get stronger. If they start making cars people want to buy they will come back. I'm going to buy the best car for me regardless of where it comes from, not for some false sense of patriotism.


----------



## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Good companies get stronger. If they start making cars people want to buy they will come back. I'm going to buy the best car for me regardless of where it comes from, not for some false sense of patriotism.



I'm guessing you drive a suburu forrester. I hear it's big in some communities.
:flag:


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## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> I would rather not support the union which is well on its way of putting the big 3 workers out of jobs.



So you choose instead to support japanese, german, or korean controlled companies. Well aren't you special.


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I'm guessing you drive a suburu forrester. I hear it's big in some communities.
> :flag:



Ah no, but I take it you don't have a good answer for the argument.


----------



## thorski (Apr 8, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Ah no, but I take it you don't have a good answer for the argument.



They are and have been making better cars for some time now.  They made their bed in the 80's and i believe the pessimism of the american people is pretty strong against them.
Not all of us are so pessimistic and some still believe. As for the rest of you. I hope your job gets shipped over to india. 
Now I go to watch south park.  They took'er jobs


----------



## o3jeff (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> They are and have been making better cars for some time now.  They made their bed in the 80's and i believe the pessimism of the american people is pretty strong against them.
> Not all of us are so pessimistic and some still believe. As for the rest of you. I hope your job gets shipped over to india.
> Now I go to watch south park.  They took'er jobs



They did it to themselves like you said by selling junk for so many years which sent Americans looking for quality, reliability and good looking cars which they found with the import companies.

What year and models are the 3 cars you listed, I am sure you'd be surprised how much of them are probably made in Mexico or Canada.

Big 3 = LAME


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Apr 8, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:



I drive a Subaru and it's great...Lesbian women know a good car..


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Apr 8, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> BUY Quality NOT Nationalism or Unionism  --------------------- end of story



times 2:flag:


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## wa-loaf (Apr 8, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> They did it to themselves like you said by selling junk for so many years which sent Americans looking for quality, reliability and good looking cars which they found with the import companies.



Add in a serious lack of foresight in the last 10 years . . . 

That said I kinda like the Ford Flex. I might check it out when I'm ready to buy, so who knows.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Apr 8, 2009)

Terry said:


> I have 3 vehicles in my yard. A chevy pickup, a dodge spirit, and a honda accord. Guess witch on is made in the US?



Honda?


----------



## bvibert (Apr 9, 2009)

hammer said:


> +1
> 
> What about all of the people to shop at Walmart (yes and I'm guilty on occasion)?



The people who shop at Walmart are just as guilty of supporting foreign companies and manufacturing as people who buy foreign cars.  I drive a German car, but don't shop at Walmart, so I'm even.


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

bvibert said:


> The people who shop at Walmart are just as guilty of supporting foreign companies and manufacturing as people who buy foreign cars.  I drive a German car, but don't shop at Walmart, so I'm even.



Sieg heil.


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Sieg heil.



Way to argue your point. :smash:


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## tjf67 (Apr 9, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> My Subi was built in the US, so was the Toyota Truck I had before that.



Built or assembeled?  I have no idea


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope that everyone of you that drives a foreign name brand car loses your job this year. :flag:





thorski said:


> Can't talk to much politics.
> Their companies get stronger-ours get weaker.
> Trade in your dependency on foreign oil for dependency on foreign manufacturing,
> Just like rome we are falling asleep.
> I hope you lose your jobs. :flag:



Sorry you lost your job, that sucks. 

Falling asleep???? Nah, the Big Fat 3 FELL asleep years ago.


----------



## Glenn (Apr 9, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I drive a German car, but don't shop at Walmart, so I'm even.



Well now I'm confused! I always shop at Wal-Mart and we own a German car. But I most always take the Jeep to Wal-Mart because it can haul more stuff. 

What was this thread about again? 

I still think Audi makes a helluva car.


----------



## drjeff (Apr 9, 2009)

Is it okay if I drive a German car to Walmart to buy Mexican food??

Agree that Audi makes a hell of a car! (atleast whenever I get to drive my wife's Q7)


----------



## billski (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> I hope you lose your jobs. :flag:



Great idea!  Then I could spend more time 
skiing!


----------



## billski (Apr 9, 2009)

drjeff said:


> Is it okay if I drive a German car to Walmart to buy Mexican food??



Only if Mexican food is made in America ;-)


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Sorry you lost your job, that sucks.
> 
> Falling asleep???? Nah, the Big Fat 3 FELL asleep years ago.



Didn't lose my job. I'm good.
Ford and chevy are making better vehicles then the imports now, but if you want to be on the wrong side of history just continue hating your own country.
And before you say "I don't hate my country"  tell me again what kind of cars you think suck?  
Big buisness runs the world-soon we won't have any.
Foreign investment is great. where does the profit go? to make a road in america that plays a song when you drive over it?


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

billski said:


> Great idea!  Then I could spend more time
> skiing!



Billski=It's all about me me me me me me me me me me me.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Didn't lose my job. I'm good.
> Ford and chevy are making better vehicles then the imports now, but if you want to be on the wrong side of history just continue hating your own country.
> And before you say "I don't hate my country"  tell me again what kind of cars you think suck?
> Big buisness runs the world-soon we won't have any.
> Foreign investment is great. where does the profit go? to make a road in america that plays a song when you drive over it?



I'm glad you didn't lose your job---why all the hate then for those who don't drive around a "bow-tie"

I'm a lover not a "hater"--nuff said

I don't determin what cars "suck", ALG does. Why do you think you can't lease on of your "kick-ass american made cars".They ain't worth anything......if you think they are you're seriously fooling yourself.


----------



## hammer (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Didn't lose my job. I'm good.
> Ford and chevy are making better vehicles then the imports now, but if you want to be on the wrong side of history just continue hating your own country.
> And before you say "I don't hate my country"  tell me again what kind of cars you think suck?
> Big buisness runs the world-soon we won't have any.
> Foreign investment is great. where does the profit go? to make a road in america that plays a song when you drive over it?



Last 2 American brand cars I bought...

1986 Chrysler Laser - Fast car but a POS, something broke each month that cost a car payment to fix
1993 Ford Exploder - Most features in an SUV at the time, but another POS...cracked head gasket at 15K miles, by 120K miles something broke each month that cost a car payment to fix, was starting to burn excessive amounts of oil (>1 qt/1000 miles)by that time as well

Last 4 Japanese brand cars I bought...

1987 Honda Civic - Ran great, no problems, only traded in because I wanted an SUV
1990 Acura Integra - Ran great, biggest problem was a bad mster cylinder at 70K miles, only traded in because I wanted an AWD car
1998 Subaru Outback - Still own, runs fine at 170K miles, did have the head gasket problem at 120K miles and some usual repairs for a car that's 11 YO
2001 Toyota Highlander - Still own, runs great at 151K miles, have had a few annoying repairs at over 100K miles but not something breaking every month, keep up on the oil changes as insurance against the sludge buildup issue but have seen no problems

My experience with Japanese brands has been, by far, much better than with US brands.  Would I go back with a US automaker?  Maybe...but it would take some convincing to do so...


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Sorry you lost your job, that sucks.
> 
> Falling asleep???? Nah, the Big Fat 3 FELL asleep years ago.



+1 Sorry thor that you got burned   in teh job market  that's really unfortunate 

 But quality AND  consumer TRUST and confidence   are  VERY difficult to REGAIN  once they are  breached .

The past 3 DECADES the  history of THE BIG THREE is ABYSMAL on those scores. It has only been the past year or two where the BIG THREE gave a damn about anything except themselves. their individual and collective GREED  

SO imo  they can go suck an egg as far as i'm concerned  UNLESS /UNTIL they demonstrate the CAN consistently EARN BACK our business with the right quality at the right price with teh right performance results .

Ps i was burned by FORD GM and Chrysler during my lifetime so i say this from  personal experience .I quit buying JUNK after 1972


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

Well my 97 ford f150 is now at 149,000+ and still runs everyday for work.  only routine maintenance. shocks, brakes, normal wear items. 
The people who would come back are the ones who can turn the economy around. 
If half the people going to buy a new car now bought american then the economy would turn around quick.
As for the pessimists who don't believe  keep buying foreign. it's alot easier to pick out the guys who like fish sticks. 
:flag:


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> +1 Sorry thor that you got burned   in teh job market  that's really unfortunate
> 
> But quality AND  consumer TRUST and confidence   are  VERY difficult to REGAIN  once they are  breached .
> 
> ...



My job is good.
If you left in 72 we don't want you back. go eat some fish sticks.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Sorry you lost your job, that sucks.
> 
> Falling asleep???? Nah, the Big Fat 3 FELL asleep years ago.



+1 

Quality AND  consumer TRUST and confidence   are  VERY difficult to REGAIN  once they are  breached .

The past 3 DECADES the  history of THE BIG THREE is ABYSMAL on those scores. It has only been the past year or two where the BIG THREE gave a damn about anything except . their individual and collective GREED  

SO imo  they can go suck an egg   UNLESS /UNTIL they demonstrate they CAN consistently EARN BACK our business with the right quality at the right price with the right performance results .

Ps i was burned by FORD GM and Chrysler during my lifetime so i say this from  personal experience .I quit buying JUNK after 1972


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Well my 97 ford f150 is now at 149,000+ and still runs everyday for work.  only routine maintenance. shocks, brakes, normal wear items.
> The people who would come back are the ones who can turn the economy around.
> If half the people going to buy a new car now bought american then the economy would turn around quick.
> As for the pessimists who don't believe  keep buying foreign. it's alot easier to pick out the guys who like fish sticks.
> :flag:




You just don't get it----IT'S TOO LATE!!!!

Are you related to Highway star???


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

Mods : Red alert  Troll control needed


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> You just don't get it----IT'S TOO LATE!!!!
> 
> Are you related to Highway star???



It's not to late for america kid.
I would guess highwaystar drives foreign. most people here do.


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Mods : Red alert  Troll control needed



I'll be quiet now. i made my point. you don't need to call mommy to protect you.


----------



## hammer (Apr 9, 2009)

In reply to the original post...

Good luck selling your Audi...I've test driven the A4 and it's a nice ride, but I'll be in the market for a car that's only a few years old at most...


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> It's not to late for america kid.
> I would guess highwaystar drives foreign. most people here do.



Nice try drivewaystar---hahahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Nice try drivewaystar---hahahahahahahahahahahahaha



Um, ok


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> I'll be quiet now. i made my point. you don't need to call mommy to protect you.



My mom died in 1986 about 10 years AFTER your argument ceased to make sense for the consumer as far as teh BIG 3's QUALITY and relevance is concerned 

Have a nice day 

PS I   don't buy  fish sticks they are "mystery"  food  and have zero value for  people much like the Quality of the Big 3  

Have a nice day


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> My mom died in 1986 about 10 years AFTER your argument ceased to make sense for the consumer as far as teh BIG 3's QUALITY and relevance is concerned
> 
> Have a nice day
> 
> ...



Cry me a river


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

Nah too big and smart to cry or buy any domestic crap made by union whiners who made themselves redundant and obsolete . LOL


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Nah too big and smart to cry or buy any domestic crap made by union whiners who made themselves redundant and obsolete . LOL



I knew I liked you for a reason


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Nah too big and smart to cry or buy any domestic crap made by union whiners who made themselves redundant and obsolete . LOL



You forgot old :smash:


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

It's your country :flag:


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

Camp  u da man  bro 

PS: Not old Camp-------------------EXPERIENCED ----------------  think like a damn owl


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> It's your country :flag:



That's where your wrong HS---it's OUR country man


----------



## bvibert (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Mods : Red alert  Troll control needed



No alert needed.

I'm still waiting for him to make a valid point about anything.  I'm not gonna hold my breath though.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> Camp  u da man  bro
> 
> PS: Not old Camp-------------------EXPERIENCED ----------------  think like a damn owl



AHHHhhhhh, you very wise Warp Daddy


----------



## o3jeff (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Well my 97 ford f150 is now at 149,000+ and still runs everyday for work.  only routine maintenance. shocks, brakes, normal wear items.
> The people who would come back are the ones who can turn the economy around.
> If half the people going to buy a new car now bought american then the economy would turn around quick.
> As for the pessimists who don't believe  keep buying foreign. it's alot easier to pick out the guys who like fish sticks.
> :flag:



You going to do your part and buy a new car or two in the near future?


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> You going to do your part and buy a new car or two in the near future?



Of course. The ford is eventually going to be retired for a new one. Probably sooner then it needs to be because of the deals out there now. 

If things keep going this way  america will soon have to rely completely on foreign manufacturing. We already rely on it to much. Ask yourself if this is a good thing?
If half the people out there who are about to buy a NEW car bought american the economy would turn around.  It really is that simple. 
Thats my point bvibert. 
:flag: yeah i love the smiley with the american flag even though he is probably made in china.


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> If things keep going this way  america will soon have to rely completely on foreign manufacturing. We already rely on it to much. Ask yourself if this is a good thing?



That's where your argument falls apart. You are worried about the manufacturing base in the US, but then you dismiss the fact that there are a ton of "foreign" cars built here. That looks like a pretty solid infrastructure to me, they are just in South or out west rather than in the rust belt. Most of those factories get 1/2 their parts from US suppliers, just like the Big three get 1/2 their parts from overseas. The only real difference is where the headquarters is located.

If you are really worried about our manufacturing, go out and buy toasters, microwaves, dishwashers, and electronics that are made in the US.


----------



## thorski (Apr 9, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> That's where your argument falls apart. You are worried about the manufacturing base in the US, but then you dismiss the fact that there are a ton of "foreign" cars built here. That looks like a pretty solid infrastructure to me, they are just in South or out west rather than in the rust belt. Most of those factories get 1/2 their parts from US suppliers, just like the Big three get 1/2 their parts from overseas. The only real difference is where the headquarters is located.
> 
> If you are really worried about our manufacturing, go out and buy toasters, microwaves, dishwashers, and electronics that are made in the US.




Who is in control is also a real difference. Where the profit goes is another.
Right now GM is making cars and money in china. Making and selling cars brings profit back to america and makes the company and our country stronger.   
The amount of jobs created in the US by the big three far outweigh what the foreign companies produce. 
What would happen to the stock market if the big three had a huge spike in sales?
Do you guys even watch the news?


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Do you guys even watch the news?



Yes, and I noticed that Chryslers only new car this year is a new Grand Cherokee.

Way to adapt to the new economy . . . :smash:


----------



## o3jeff (Apr 9, 2009)

Unfortunately the fix isn't as simple as buying American cars. They need to fix the problem that got them where they are. The government is working on the corporate greed part. The other is how can a company make a profitable product when their labor cost is so high? They are paying people on the production line with a high school education more than a college professor with a Phd make? Instead of laying people off when times are slow they are forced to _buy_ them out with attractive pensions they didn't earn.

Personally I think one of the big 3 will have to sink before the problems are fixed


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 9, 2009)

o3jeff said:


> Unfortunately the fix isn't as simple as buying American cars. They need to fix the problem that got them where they are. The government is working on the corporate greed part. The other is how can a company make a profitable product when their labor cost is so high? They are paying people on the production line with a high school education more than a college professor with a Phd make? Instead of laying people off when times are slow they are forced to _buy_ them out with attractive pensions they didn't earn.
> 
> Personally I think one of the big 3 will have to sink before the problems are fixed




On Target !!!

Even IF they eventually compete on a quality comparison  the legacy costs and the wage/benefit rates are KILLING them  ,!!  While Management  leadership is at best  impoverished and product line planning matched to consumer need seems to be a foreign concept to teh BIG THREE  the  Myopia of the  Unions  who fail to see that they are a major part of the problem .  witnessed by featherbedding and other forms of un- productive labor is a toxic mixture for decline 

They will have to compete with very aggressive competitors who long ago  figured out the quality/cost /  consumer need  matrices required for profitability


----------



## bvibert (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> If half the people out there who are about to buy a NEW car bought american the economy would turn around.  It really is that simple.
> Thats my point bvibert.



It's not that simple, that's why I don't consider it a valid point.

Are you in the UAW?


----------



## snoseek (Apr 9, 2009)

thorski said:


> Do you guys even watch the news?





Yes-the sports and weather are excellent.

Do you ever read Consumer Reports?


----------



## thorski (Apr 10, 2009)

bvibert said:


> It's not that simple, that's why I don't consider it a valid point.
> 
> Are you in the UAW?



It would be that simple. Just think of what it would do to american morale which is as low as i've ever seen it. Talking to you guys makes me think your a bunch of those selfish vermonters who want to secede from the union. 
GM succeeds means america succeeds. GM fails means america enters a depression.
I am not in the UAW i am not even pro union. But the fact of the matter is gm and ford are making the best cars out there now and the deals out there can't be beat. Your paying for the bailout anyway because obama understands how important the big three are to the economy and national defense.  yes i read consumer reports apparently you haven't recently.
On this i'm out, good day gentlemen and think before you buy.  There are good american alternatives to the axis powers.   
 bvibert I will buy you a sam adams next year at sundown.  :flag:
Unless thats frowned upon in the complex social dynamics of sundown. LMAO


----------



## wa-loaf (Apr 10, 2009)

thorski said:


> It would be that simple. Just think of what it would do to american morale which is as low as i've ever seen it. Talking to you guys makes me think your a bunch of those selfish vermonters who want to secede from the union.
> GM succeeds means america succeeds. GM fails means america enters a depression.
> I am not in the UAW i am not even pro union. But the fact of the matter is gm and ford are making the best cars out there now and the deals out there can't be beat. Your paying for the bailout anyway because obama understands how important the big three are to the economy and national defense.  yes i read consumer reports apparently you haven't recently.
> On this i'm out, good day gentlemen and think before you buy.  There are good american alternatives to the axis powers.
> ...



Beer is definitely an area where we are beating the Asians, though I loves me some Guinness . . .


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 10, 2009)

thorski said:


> It would be that simple. Just think of what it would do to american morale which is as low as i've ever seen it. Talking to you guys makes me think your a bunch of those selfish vermonters who want to secede from the union.
> GM succeeds means america succeeds. GM fails means america enters a depression.
> I am not in the UAW i am not even pro union. But the fact of the matter is gm and ford are making the best cars out there now and *the deals out there can't be beat*. Your paying for the bailout anyway because obama understands how important the big three are to the economy and national defense.  yes i read consumer reports apparently you haven't recently.
> On this i'm out, good day gentlemen and think before you buy.  There are good american alternatives to the axis powers.
> ...



HS by buying "the deal" you'll just be adding fuel to the fire. For too many years the Big 3 forced the market by whoring out their product instead of selling quality. Get it??? Don't go for the deal-----you truly get what you pay for.


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## Geoff (Apr 10, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> HS by buying "the deal" you'll just be adding fuel to the fire. For too many years the Big 3 forced the market by whoring out their product instead of selling quality. Get it??? Don't go for the deal-----you truly get what you pay for.



It's not so much the quality.  Build quality has improved dramatically over the last few decades.  The problem is that the Big 3 mostly build the wrong cars.  Big metal SUVs & pickup trucks.  Really boring sedans.  A modern Buick is quite reliable but I'd go out of my mind driving one every day.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 10, 2009)

H'mm the dinosaurs are dying  hear them !!


----------



## thorski (Apr 10, 2009)

QUOTE=Geoff;413194]It's not so much the quality.  Build quality has improved dramatically over the last few decades.  The problem is that the Big 3 mostly build the wrong cars.  Big metal SUVs & pickup trucks.  Really boring sedans.  A modern Buick is quite reliable but I'd go out of my mind driving one every day.[/QUOTE]

People where buying them big suv's and they still are. The chevy volt is coming but the pee guy is rooting for the other team to win. I would buy his dog a beer but not him. :lol:
I love pick up trucks. How else am i gonna get er done. 
 I'm gonna make a sticker for mine
Eating tundras and shi**ing out titans.


----------



## thorski (Apr 10, 2009)

Warp Daddy said:


> H'mm the dinosaurs are dying  hear them !!



The dinosaurs are america.
If they die so will we fool.


----------



## snoseek (Apr 10, 2009)

Hmmmm...maybe I should trade in my Civic for a Neon or better yet Cobalt. I've always dreamed of rocking a Cobalt, plus I'm sure it will last 4eva:roll:


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 10, 2009)

thorski said:


> The dinosaurs are america.
> If they die so will we fool.




America is changing and will always CONTINUE to EVOLVE that's not conjecture THAT's FACT 

Folks who Adapt and deal with this condition will be better able to make it .

Those that will MAKE it  are those WILLING , and ABLE to ADAPT to evolving realities 

No fool here dude!! 

 As an economist with 4 decades experience  we planned our financials wisely, understand the nature of business cycles and implemented a VERY safe strategy over 4 decades .As a result  have not lost one dime in this latest meltdown at all .Thus we are NOT  dependent on the UAW or Big 3 to survive and can exercise many options depending on the situation   ----------------doing VERY well thank you 

And BTW as far as the current reality  it's NOT if they die, they are gasping for their LAST breath my friend .and will need to  undergo SYSTEMIC change to make it happen . I hope they do make it, BUT their fate UNDER a CAPITALISTIC  system should be IN THEIR hands  NOT on the TAXPAYER's nickel


----------



## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

thorski said:


> Didn't lose my job. I'm good.
> Ford and chevy are making better vehicles then the imports now, but if you want to be on the wrong side of history just continue hating your own country.
> And before you say "I don't hate my country"  tell me again what kind of cars you think suck?
> Big buisness runs the world-soon we won't have any.
> Foreign investment is great. where does the profit go? to make a road in america that plays a song when you drive over it?



thorski,
How old are you anyways?  Do you remember the past?

First of all, I don't see how you can construe not buying American as hating your country?  There are too many economic issues in play here.   
What brand is your stereo/video/TV components?   Back in the 70s and 80s when American manufacturers were still in that business, my parents and I continued to buy American TVs.  We had nothing but trouble with them, they were behind the times with technology and features and burned out in 5 years.  The Japanese embarked on Total quality management (do a little reading, you'll see American quality guru W. Authur Deming) taught the Japanese auto manufacturers the rules) but the American little three auto mfrs. chose to ignore them.  The domestic manufacturers had a self-interest strategy of forcing us to to buy a new car, for their own benefit.  I'm sick of being manipulated.      In three years the quarter panels and door panels would rot out.  If you were lucky enough to hold onto it for six years, you got frame rot.    Would you trust a kid who always did bad deeds?  Why should I trust the motor city now?   They've known about this problem for 30 years.  It's only been the last five years that they finally turned the quality around.  The damage has been done, now upon generations of car owners.

My sister stuck with American over the past 30 years when I bailed.  She's had nothing but troubles.  As late as two  years ago her Trailblazer had to be fully replaced under the NY lemon law.  Just does nothing but reinforce my position.     there is way too much arrogance remaining in Detroit.

I spoke previously about my encounter in 1981 with the Director of body design for the Corvette both at his home and in the Warren, Michigan GM design center.  He was too worried about jobs and didn't want to hear about longevity beyond 3 years.  He was so proud of hiring uneducated, non-college grads to design his cars.  As a BSEE grad, I was aghast.  I knew right there and then that this was an industry in crisis and it galvanized my decision never to buy domestic again.  The problem is that they simply for the most part (with few exceptions) are incapable of taking a broad, worldwide view of the situation.  This isn't stuff I read in a book.   I experienced this crap. 

Me and Warp (and others lived through the terrible 60s and 70s when having a rescue kit in your car was imperative) were always getting call to help come rescue another broken down friend or relative in a Ford, GM or Chrysler.  Let me tell you about the gas tank that FELL OUT of my Ford sometime or the Chevy engine that broke free from the moto rmounts, slid and dropped the drive shaft ONTO THE HIGHWAY at 60mph!!!!    I, personally would never keep a car past 60K miles because that is when major reliability problems happened.  I sunk 10's of K$ into repairs on American cars.  And lost hundreds of hours of personal time, and pay when the car breaks down on the way to work.  Don't you think that left an indelible impression on me???  Win me back, but start working on it.  Give me a domestic car free of charge for six months to drive and then maybe I'll change my mind.   Hey, use the freaking bailout money for THAT!

Look, when you've been through as much hassle as I have been with American cars, you are going to have to work DAMN HARD to win me back.  I don't believe you understand withat DAMN HARD means.  Giving me the  marketing line that quality is  better, showing be JD Power surveys isn't enough.   If GM Chrysler or Ford expects me to plunk down 20 or 25K on a car with the promise of "trust me", well, you can forget about that.  DAMN HARD means giving me a quality experience without risk to my pocketbook.   I KNOW I won't be sinking bucks every month into my Toyota.   You have a good experience?  Well, congratulations.   I know of hundreds who didn't.   

Why don't they take some of that bailout money and put it into extended Warranty and Service programs that come standard with the car?   Audi did when it had the PR disaster with the 5000 and lost over 30% of their market.  Smart business move.  All standard service included for first 50K or 3 years.  Tylenol did when they had the lacing incident.  They gave away product for cripes sake, and wond their reputation back.

If their quality is so damn good, then make it a 5 year 120K mile bumper to bumper warranty standard.  Why not?  It won't cost them a penny, right?

I have no interest in buying from a company that puts its own self-interest first.  I have no interest in seeing the pockets of employees lined with over-the-top benefits plans.  I used to live in a town with a GM manufacturing facility in nearby Rochester NY and knew many people who worked there.  I NEVER had the kinds of benefit and retirement plans they got.  They are still getting benefits way beyond what I receive.  No thanks, I think I'll keep some of that money for my own retirement account.

If you want to talk longevity, My 96 Avalon has 235K miles on it and my daughter still drives it to school everyday.   It suffered long ski winter trips, had minor fender benders that were cheap to repair and didn't have to keep going back to the shop for the same problem.  Like you, it's only be standard maintenance expense.   150K miles is nothing to brag about; that's ordinary for me.  We usually keep our cars for at least 10 years at at least 180K miles.  150K is no proof point; it's just treading water, following behind the back, not ahead of it.

Don't get me going about handouts.   My university just sent me a solicitation telling me "don't miss the chance to contribute".   Huh?   Like this is my obligation?  No thanks GM.  Get back to work.  I know there are are handful of folks at GM with the work ethic and customer first ethic, but the rest are still riding the gravy train.   That handful is not being allowed to rise.   throw out the damn unions please.

If you want to talk economics, often this is the largest decision factor.   Foreign companies worked continually to keep costs low.  My Avalon was cheaper than the domestics. 

We need to re-establish our American work ethic and our customer-first ethic.  Stop thinking of me-first.  Do the right thing and rewards will follow.  

And please, think twice before you start talking about isolationist policies.  If you were a good history student, then you recall how our 1914 and 1938 isolationist policies got us into trouble.

I think we as a country rested on our laurels as an economic force for too long.  We all got too lazy and expected entitlements.  The competition came in and we were sleeping int he hammock.  Wake up, get to work America, and start working HARD again.   Then we as a nation can rise back tot he top of the economic heap and we can be proud of our nation again.


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> thorski,
> How old are you anyways?  Do you remember the past?
> 
> First of all, I don't see how you can construe not buying American as hating your country?  There are too many economic issues in play here.
> ...




Well said sir !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 10, 2009)

Geoff said:


> It's not so much the quality.  Build quality has improved dramatically over the last few decades.  The problem is that the Big 3 mostly build the wrong cars.  Big metal SUVs & pickup trucks.  Really boring sedans.  A modern Buick is quite reliable but I'd go out of my mind driving one every day.



I'll give you "their" quality has improved, BUT it's not on par with the "imports", it just isn't. If it was they would still be leasing instead of puking incentive $$$$$ and coming out with all these "if you lose your job" gimicks. Quality sells.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 10, 2009)

[/QUOTE]

People where buying them big suv's and they still are. The chevy volt is coming but the pee guy is rooting for the other team to win. I would buy his dog a beer but not him. :lol:
I love pick up trucks. How else am i gonna get er done. 
 I'm gonna make a sticker for mine
Eating tundras and shi**ing out titans.[/QUOTE]


Save you money my friend, sounds to me like youo'll need it.


----------



## thorski (Apr 10, 2009)

You guys have a good time in Versailles i'm heading up to K.


----------



## campgottagopee (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> thorski,
> How old are you anyways?  Do you remember the past?
> 
> First of all, I don't see how you can construe not buying American as hating your country?  There are too many economic issues in play here.
> ...




+1


----------



## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> I have no interest in seeing the pockets of employees lined with over-the-top benefits plans.  I used to live in a town with a GM manufacturing facility in nearby Rochester NY and knew many people who worked there.  I NEVER had the kinds of benefit and retirement plans they got.  They are still getting benefits way beyond what I receive.  No thanks, I think I'll keep some of that money for my own retirement account.




Good friend of my father's in Florida retired from GM after 30 years as not middle management and certainly not board level, standard VP level manager.  He receives 120K a year in retirement, which represents roughly 70% of his final salary, full health benefits AND a top of the line Cadillac EVERY year.  So, essentially he receives more by not working than he did working.  Even he understands why the companies are on the verge of failure.   Mind you, this individual was not part of the UAW.  It's not only union workers that are bancrupting these companies like many of the talking white collars begging for tax money would lead you to believe.


I'll stick with Hyundai thank you very much.  For the money, I think they are the best built cars on the road today.  I'll put my 07 Sonata up against an Accord or Camry with the same trim any day of the week; never mind a Malibu or Fusion.  My father recently traded in his Infinity M35X for a Genesis and the Hyundai blows away the Infinity in every way measurable and cost him 15 grand less to buy.  His warranty ran out on the Infinity, he heard my testament, saw the super bowl commercial and decided to check one out and was instantly converted. The 10 year 100K warranties that come with them aren't a sales gimick to get you threw the door.  It's a testament to the quality of the vehicle. 

so, a Korean car built in a factory on American soil by American workers is what I go with.


----------



## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Good friend of my father's in Florida retired from GM after 30 years as not middle management and certainly not board level, standard VP level manager.  He receives 120K a year in retirement, which represents roughly 70% of his final salary, full health benefits AND a top of the line Cadillac EVERY year.



And who's bailout money is going to fund that new Cadillac every year? :smash:

I say let them keep the pension, hell they have to pay their prescriptions, but strip them of the non-competitive entitlements like cars, country clubs and god knows what else.  

Somehow he can make that Caddy last more than a year, no?  That is, if the QUALITY is up to it!  :blink:

Sadly, I suppose this is the VP's reward for presiding over a period of low quality and non-competitive products :blink:


----------



## Warp Daddy (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> And who's bailout money is going to fund that new Cadillac every year? :smash:
> 
> I say let them keep the pension, hell they have to pay their prescriptions, but strip them of the non-competitive entitlements like cars, country clubs and god knows what else.
> 
> ...



Yeah and GM 's motto is : Screw Up and Get Up  ( at taxpayer's expense )     frankly i'd tie their pension payout exclusively and DIRECTLY to GM 's stock performance and let them get after the GM workforce.

120 k /yr plus in retirement  for a paper shuffler is a problem .


----------



## marcski (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> And who's bailout money is going to fund that new Cadillac every year? :smash:
> 
> I say let them keep the pension, hell they have to pay their prescriptions, but strip them of the non-competitive entitlements like cars, country clubs and god knows what else.
> 
> ...



Well won't those retirees just become another creditor when the company ends up in Bankruptcy Court?


----------



## hammer (Apr 10, 2009)

Has anyone driven the new Audi A4?  I think I saw one on the road today...has more lines to it, looks nice...


----------



## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

marcski said:


> Well won't those retirees just become another creditor when the company ends up in Bankruptcy Court?


yeah, but I think they are near the top of the pecking order.

I once knew an old timer who always dreamed of owning a Cadillac.  He saved his whole life, with his own money, rewarded himself with a big honkin' thing.   Seven years later he was major pissed when the thing died and he had to buy another car.  He told me "I was expecting that car to last me the rest of my life!"   :smash:

Huh?  Was someone talking about Audi?


----------



## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

I own an Audi.  I'm pretty happy.  That said, here's probably the biggest problem I have with the dealers, hot off the email inbox:


Have you been holding off getting that Check Engine Light diagnosed because of the diagnostic charge?                    

                  In our attempt to assist in this difficult economy, we will check your check engine light                    


                  for $89.95                   

                  This is a savings of 
                  $ 25.00

Silly me.  I thought they'd offer the service for FREE. :roll:
I just go to my indie shop.


----------



## hammer (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> I own an Audi.  I'm pretty happy.  That said, here's probably the biggest problem I have with the dealers, hot off the email inbox:
> 
> 
> Have you been holding off getting that Check Engine Light diagnosed because of the diagnostic charge?
> ...




I don't blame the shops for charging a nominal amount to pull a code, but with the proper equipment it's a very short check, isn't it?

Do you find that your independent shop can handle repairs on your Audi?  Are the parts still expensive?


----------



## WJenness (Apr 10, 2009)

billski said:


> I own an Audi.  I'm pretty happy.  That said, here's probably the biggest problem I have with the dealers, hot off the email inbox:
> 
> 
> Have you been holding off getting that Check Engine Light diagnosed because of the diagnostic charge?
> ...



Thats why they call them STEALERships...

My Buddy has one of these:
http://www.ross-tech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VCKII&Category_Code=VAGCOM

No need to ever pay for me to find out what the codes are (plus you can do some cool mods). As you also noted a good independent shop is worth the car's weight in gold...

If you ever need it, let me know and I can probably help you out.

-w


----------



## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

hammer said:


> I don't blame the shops for charging a nominal amount to pull a code, but with the proper equipment it's a very short check, isn't it?
> 
> Do you find that your independent shop can handle repairs on your Audi?  Are the parts still expensive?



My shop is capable of doing just about anything.  They are a very smart bunch of guys working there.  The overall cost is about 2/3 of what I would pay at the dealer, that applies to both parts and labor rate.  The dealer always gives me the "genuine only" line everytime I compare a lot.

I will say that you don't want to go to a shoestring indie shop however.  What I mean is that this next generation of audis (2005+) has a wickedly complex "operating system" if you will, with tons of computers doing all sorts of stuff.  What that means it that more sophisticated diagnostics and repair tools become essential.  How do I know?   Well, we had to do a full brake job on my 06 at 50K miles this winter.  Because the emergency braking system is "by wire" it required a special equipment he didn't have.  He had to go out and buy it and learn how to use it.  I was the first of his customers that he encountered.   

However, here is where the integrity came in.   I said to him, "well, looking at the bill, it looks like you're eating some of the repair expense."  He agreed.  He said next time, he would charge more to others to amortize the cost of equipment, but had quoted me a fee and stuck too it.   It also shows he's willing to make the investment, learn the tools and be there for me next time I need him.   Auto Engineering, Lexington, Mass.  I would trust him with not only my car, but my children too.   
I started bringing the car there after the 3 year or 50K included-service "warranty" expired a year ago.  He even fixed esoteric things like clogged roof drain for $80 that the dealer wanted $199.99 for.   The other good news is getting appointments and flexibility is much better with an indie.  I've been using indies my whole life on select model cars....


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## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

WJenness said:


> Thats why they call them STEALERships...
> 
> My Buddy has one of these:
> http://www.ross-tech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VCKII&Category_Code=VAGCOM
> ...



Thanks for the offer.


----------



## billski (Apr 10, 2009)

hammer said:


> Has anyone driven the new Audi A4?  I think I saw one on the road today...has more lines to it, looks nice...


The A4 is getting really good reviews.  It's supposed to be a fun small car, good for "spirited driving."  Sorry, can't help you there.  I'm with GSS in the grandma-driver league.
I will tell you from a paper-check that the A4 has caught up the the features in the a6 and a8 (down the foodchain it goes).   If you're into gadgets, I guess that's goodness and more fun.  I find the more variables, the more opportunity for failure,or at least bizarre behavior.   I really don't have much bad to say about the a6 except that I can't find a good place to rest my elbows when driving, even after seat and wheel adjustments of every imaginable possibility.  Rear visibility is not good on the A6 either, but those are my only complaints.


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## Geoff (Apr 11, 2009)

WJenness said:


> Thats why they call them STEALERships...
> 
> My Buddy has one of these:
> http://www.ross-tech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VCKII&Category_Code=VAGCOM
> ...



I have one of those.  I had to upgrade from a serial VagCom cable to a USB version when I sold my MK IV GTI and bought a MK V GTI.   I don't see how you could own a Volkswagen product without having it.  I scan my car every 5,000 miles looking for fault codes.  You need it to configure the tire pressure monitoring system when you're running lower pressure snow tires in the winter.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 12, 2009)

WJenness said:


> Thats why they call them STEALERships...



Again, not to keep banging my Hyundai drum, but dealership experience has been yet another pleasant surprise.  I recently had to swap out the rear rotors and shoes.  The dealership charged me $300 including labor.  I thought it was a mistake as I called around to a half dozen indie shops and they all had quotes ranging from $525-$700.  I'm an honest guy and asked the dealer if they were sure?  yep, that's the price.

I had an Audi for a couple of years and it was a great ride, but a killer on parts and repairs.  They're a wealthy man's car.  Unless an individual is a real driving enthusiast, I honestly don't see why anyone making under 100K a year would own one.  I'd rather be putting that extra grand in repairs here and there in my retirement account than a repairman's wallet.


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## drjeff (Apr 12, 2009)

billski said:


> The A4 is getting really good reviews.  It's supposed to be a fun small car, good for "spirited driving."  Sorry, can't help you there.  I'm with GSS in the grandma-driver league.
> I will tell you from a paper-check that the A4 has caught up the the features in the a6 and a8 (down the foodchain it goes).   If you're into gadgets, I guess that's goodness and more fun.  I find the more variables, the more opportunity for failure,or at least bizarre behavior.   I really don't have much bad to say about the a6 except that I can't find a good place to rest my elbows when driving, even after seat and wheel adjustments of every imaginable possibility.  Rear visibility is not good on the A6 either, but those are my only complaints.



My wife had an A4 about 2 versions ago (and before she went to the A6 and then her current Q7 for space reasons).  The A4 hands down was one fun car to drive!(and as such there's many a day when I wish we had hung onto that car.  Haven't driven the new one, but last year when my wife's Q7 was in the shop overnight for service, she was given an '08 A4 as a loaner, and I convienently made sure that I had to take it out and run a bunch of errands that night at stores that required me to drive down winding back roads to get there!


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## Glenn (Apr 14, 2009)

I learned something interesting a few years back... Service writers are dealers work on comission. They're usually paid a flate rate...min wage, then get a percentage of each bill. I beleive the parts guys are paid that way too. 

Took our A6 in for a recall. They called me and told me I needed front brakes "soon, within a few thousand miles!") I knew that was BS...they were done when we bought the car. I had the 40k service done at the private dealership I deal with. Not a peep about the brakes. So it pays to keep and eye on your car; or at least your service records. 

Pulling codes. Most autoparts places (AutoZone ect) will pull em for nothing. I can acutually get the Jeep to spit out the codes by doing a combo of key turns in the ignition. Pretty handy IMHO.


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