# Boot Advice



## MR. evil (Dec 12, 2007)

Hi everyone. I am Randi’s (MRGisevil) husband Tim, and this is only my 2nd or 3rd post. First off I wanted to thank everyone for their advice in the ‘Help me buy Mens ski’s’ thread that Randi started on my behalf a couple of weeks ago. I did end up getting new skis and have used them a couple of times already and I am loving them.

Now I am in the market for some new boots. I have only been to a couple of shops so far to try on boots, but I plan I visiting a few more before I make my purchase. The reason for this post is that I am little confused about some of the advice I have received from the ski shops I have visited so far. At one shop (where I purchased my new skis) I found a pair of boots I really liked, some Nordica GTS-8’s. http://www.porterstahoe.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=005G6300!NORDI
They fit great and where over all really comfortable. When standing up right they were a little snug in the toes, but nothing uncomfortable. When leaning forward with knees bent in a skiing position they just felt perfect. Snug in all the right spots, nothing uncomfortable and they feel like a boot I could easily ski in all day. The shop owner had nothing bad to say about them as they are one of his Favorites. But he felt that they were not the perfect boot for me. So he took out a pair of Lange Fluid 80’s to try on. 
http://www.spadout.com/store.php?stpr_id=32805
These boots are on sale for the same price as the Nordica’s but he says they are a much better boot. So I try them on and they just don’t feel good, very tight in the toes and ankles. It was almost extremely uncomfortable to stand up straight in these boots. Just the thought of a long lift ride while wearing these boots is just unbearable. But when standing in a forward skiing position with knees bent these boots felt much better, though still not as comfy as the Nordica’s. The shop keep insisted that my description of how the Lange’s fit was perfect. And while the boots may be really tight now, the foam would pack down after a few uses and the boots would be much more comfortable and that foot beds would help even more. 

What do you guys think?

While I trust this guy, I just don’t know if I am willing to risk $200 plus.


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## Greg (Dec 12, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> What do you guys think?
> 
> While I trust this guy, I just don’t know if I am willing to risk $200 plus.



Did the guy shell size you? i.e. did he pull the liner out of the boot and have you put a sockless foot into the shell? If not, go elsewhere.

You need to go beyond just trying on the boot. You need to shell size first. Typically, they will pull the liner out of the boot and put your foot in the empty shell. When you move your foot all the way to the front so your toes are touching the front of the shell, the fitter should then only be able to slip one or two fingers between your heel and the back of the shell. Any more than that is too big. With this approach, you may find the correct sized boot is 1-2 sizes smaller than your street shoe size. A good boot fitter can "make" the shells bigger, but not smaller.

When you find a shell that is appropriate after shell sizing, try the boot on with the liner back in it (bring your ski socks!). Wear the boot for some time and try to identify any potential hot spots. New boots will pack out so don't be concerned if they feel too snug at the outset, as long as it's not painful. Wear the boots for a few hours around the house (while watching TV, posting on AZ , etc.) to help break them in.

Boots are the one piece of equipment you should not skimp on. Spend the money on a complete fitting if you can swing it. Jeff Bokum (our resident boot fitter) has a bunch of good info on his new Web site:

http://www.profileorthoticcenter.com/evaluation.html
http://www.profileorthoticcenter.com/footbeds.html
http://www.profileorthoticcenter.com/balance.html
http://www.profileorthoticcenter.com/canting.html

Jeff's in Concord, NH which is a bit of a drive for you, but might be worth it if you can't find a reputable boot fitter in your area.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 12, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> Hi everyone. I am Randi’s (MRGisevil) husband Tim, and this is only my 2nd or 3rd post. First off I wanted to thank everyone for their advice in the ‘Help me buy Mens ski’s’ thread that Randi started on my behalf a couple of weeks ago. I did end up getting new skis and have used them a couple of times already and I am loving them.
> 
> Now I am in the market for some new boots. I have only been to a couple of shops so far to try on boots, but I plan I visiting a few more before I make my purchase. The reason for this post is that I am little confused about some of the advice I have received from the ski shops I have visited so far. At one shop (where I purchased my new skis) I found a pair of boots I really liked, some Nordica GTS-8’s. http://www.porterstahoe.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=005G6300!NORDI
> They fit great and where over all really comfortable. When standing up right they were a little snug in the toes, but nothing uncomfortable. When leaning forward with knees bent in a skiing position they just felt perfect. Snug in all the right spots, nothing uncomfortable and they feel like a boot I could easily ski in all day. The shop owner had nothing bad to say about them as they are one of his Favorites. But he felt that they were not the perfect boot for me. So he took out a pair of Lange Fluid 80’s to try on.
> ...



Did he do a shell fit with you? Take out the liners and slide your toes to the front. You shouldn't have more than a fingers width behind your heel. It sounds a little like the Nordicas might be too big and probably have a thick liner that will pack out quickly. You should feel claustrophobic in the new boots. If you don't have any hotspots in the Lange's, they sound about right. If there is too much forward lean that can be adjusted. You should also post this question in the bootfitter thread. Jeff is a boot genius!


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## RISkier (Dec 12, 2007)

I certainly don't know the guy you're working with but I've become a real believer in finding a bootfitter who know what they're doing.  If the fitter doesn't start by examing your feet and then doing a shell fit, leave.  Different boots have very different lasts and what fits one person well may be totally wrong for the next person.  A good bootfitter can assess the shape of your foot and based on that and your skiing ability, recommend an appropriate model boot or two.  Then they'll do a shell fit in which they remove the liner and have you put your feet in the boot with toes just touching the front of the shell.  In recreation boots there should be about 1.5 fingers of width (obviously depends on whose fingers we're talking about) between the back of your heel and the back of the shell.  If you get a boot with an appropriate last, flex, and fit, the fitter can probably resolve any little pressure issues.  From what you've said, it sounds like the first boot was probably a pretty good fit in that you should probably feel the front of the liner when standing or sitting.  Don't really know much about either of the boots you mentioned but Langes have generally had rather narrow lasts.


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## tjf67 (Dec 12, 2007)

If you want to be a life long skier go withthe boots that are most comfortable.  I have seen more people abandon the sport because there boots hurt to much.  Different boots are meant for different people.  The ski mags did a review a few months back about the different boots.  Its not the be all end all but it tell you which boots are meant for fat feet ,skinny feet things like that.  I would not be concerned about getting a better boot for the money becasue the best boot is the boot that is most confortable.  Later on if you think this is something you are going to be into for a while you can get a high performace boot and then get it all tweaked out.  
For now comfort and warmth should be your most important factor.  
IMO Boots are the hardest purchase.  That said you only have to do it every 5 years or so.


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## MR. evil (Dec 12, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> If you want to be a life long skier go withthe boots that are most comfortable.  I have seen more people abandon the sport because there boots hurt to much.  Different boots are meant for different people.  The ski mags did a review a few months back about the different boots.  Its not the be all end all but it tell you which boots are meant for fat feet ,skinny feet things like that.  I would not be concerned about getting a better boot for the money becasue the best boot is the boot that is most confortable.  Later on if you think this is something you are going to be into for a while you can get a high performace boot and then get it all tweaked out.
> For now comfort and warmth should be your most important factor.
> IMO Boots are the hardest purchase.  That said you only have to do it every 5 years or so.



Well I am 31 and I have been skiing since I was 17, though before last winter I had a 2 season layoff. So as long as my knees hold up I am probably in this for the long hual. I am a fairly decent skier, I just know jack about equipment.

Tim


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## Paul (Dec 12, 2007)

Absolutely agree with everything said above. NEVER let a shop guy try to steer you into any specific make or model. Get the one that fits and feels the best. Langes are notorious for being tight and really stiff. They are a great racing boot, but not everyone's cuppa tea for an all-around boot. My local shop guy isn't a big Technica fan, but those are what I got from him as they were the only ones that really fit my weirdo feet. 

I guess you didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School, huh?


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## MR. evil (Dec 12, 2007)

Greg said:


> Did the guy shell size you? i.e. did he pull the liner out of the boot and have you put a sockless foot into the shell? If not, go elsewhere.
> 
> .



The guy did not shell size me.

One of my co-workers had good luck at the Ski Market in Avon last winter. The boot guy there did a comprehensive fitting for my co-workers duaghter and also gave her some modified aftermarket foot beds. My co-worker was so impressed he brough his existing boots to the shop to have foot beds installed and the shell tweaked. He loves the results. I think that will be the next store I try. Has anyone here had any experience with that store?


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## wa-loaf (Dec 12, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> The guy did not shell size me.
> 
> One of my co-workers had good luck at the Ski Market in Avon last winter. The boot guy there did a comprehensive fitting for my co-workers duaghter and also gave her some modified aftermarket foot beds. My co-worker was so impressed he brough his existing boots to the shop to have foot beds installed and the shell tweaked. He loves the results. I think that will be the next store I try. Has anyone here had any experience with that store?



Ski Markets, especially the bigger stores have some good people working in them. You are not going to find many bargains there however.


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## bvibert (Dec 12, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> The guy did not shell size me.
> 
> One of my co-workers had good luck at the Ski Market in Avon last winter. The boot guy there did a comprehensive fitting for my co-workers duaghter and also gave her some modified aftermarket foot beds. My co-worker was so impressed he brough his existing boots to the shop to have foot beds installed and the shell tweaked. He loves the results. I think that will be the next store I try. Has anyone here had any experience with that store?



I seem to remember hearing that some reputable boot fitter is working at that Ski Market now.  I could be mistaken though...


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## Paul (Dec 12, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> The guy did not shell size me.
> 
> One of my co-workers had good luck at the Ski Market in Avon last winter. The boot guy there did a comprehensive fitting for my co-workers duaghter and also gave her some modified aftermarket foot beds. My co-worker was so impressed he brough his existing boots to the shop to have foot beds installed and the shell tweaked. He loves the results. I think that will be the next store I try. Has anyone here had any experience with that store?









DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!

I think there's a good fitter at SM in Avon. I seem to recall a thread mentioning this, I'll try to find it.


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## Paul (Dec 12, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I seem to remember hearing that some reputable boot fitter is working at that Ski Market now.  I could be mistaken though...



Beat me byyyyyyyyy that much.


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## MR. evil (Dec 12, 2007)

Paul said:


> I guess you didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School, huh?



No it was evil Architectural school; we don't get a cool title like ‘Doctor’. 

The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.


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## Paul (Dec 12, 2007)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/18938-ski-shop-recomendation-3.html?highlight=ski+market+avon

Here, 'tis....

Dave Newman is the guy's name. Last post in this thread.


Yeah, I went to Evil Engineering school, but I transfered. Didn't get the name or title.


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## MRGisevil (Dec 12, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> No it was evil Architectural school; we don't get a cool title like ‘Doctor’.
> 
> The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.



Wrong thread n00b


hugs


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## bvibert (Dec 12, 2007)

Paul said:


> Beat me byyyyyyyyy that much.





Paul said:


> http://forums.alpinezone.com/18938-ski-shop-recomendation-3.html?highlight=ski+market+avon
> 
> Here, 'tis....
> 
> Dave Newman is the guy's name. Last post in this thread.



I beat you to the post, but you get bonus points for actually looking for the thread in question..


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## Paul (Dec 12, 2007)

bvibert said:


> I beat you to the post, but you get bonus points for actually looking for the thread in question..








I'm way kewl


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## severine (Dec 12, 2007)

Paul said:


> I'm way kewl


:lol:

I definitely agree that you want the shell fit to be right.  I honestly don't recall what was done when I bought my boots 4 years ago, but Brian did the shell fit test on me recently and thinks the shells are too big.  I ended up with more of a recreational fit (2 fingers width) and now I'm not so sure how much longer they'll work for me.  They only have about 18 days on them.  

Gotta get the boots right.  It's just not fun if your feet hurt or slop around.


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## Greg (Dec 12, 2007)

severine said:


> Gotta get the boots right.  It's just not fun if your feet hurt or slop around.



It's all about the heel! If the heel is not locked down, your skiing with suffer. Before I was custom fitted, all my turns originated from the middle of the ski, sort of from the binding area. You can effectively initiate a turn from the tip if your heel lifts. Once I got my heel locked down and discovered how to use the full length of the ski in a turn, my skiing improved a lot. Getting those tips to dive was a major "ah-ha" moment for me.


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## basemoto (Dec 12, 2007)

when you are buying a boot do not let anyone tell you what fits or steer you towards a certain boot. It is a business and they want to sell what they make the most money on. When you are strapped in a boot make sure your heel does not move AT ALL. If your heel is tight it allows you to get good lean over your ski which means good turns(just as Greg said above). Also do not get a boot that is too stiff. If you get a high flex rated boot your gonna need to ski the piss out of them to get results. A softer boot will flex easier and will allow you turn better as an upper intermediate skier. I ski pretty hard and i have technica vento 10's. I would not recommend this boot for someone that does not like ski hard all the time. I do love my boot and if you ski hard and fast go for it.


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## Paul (Dec 12, 2007)

basemoto said:


> when you are buying a boot do not let anyone tell you what fits or steer you towards a certain boot. It is a business and they want to sell what they make the most money on. When you are strapped in a boot make sure your heel does not move AT ALL. If your heel is tight it allows you to get good lean over your ski which means good turns(just as Greg said above). Also do not get a boot that is too stiff. If you get a high flex rated boot your gonna need to ski the piss out of them to get results. A softer boot will flex easier and will allow you turn better as an upper intermediate skier. I ski pretty hard and i have technica vento 10's. I would not recommend this boot for someone that does not like ski hard all the time. I do love my boot and if you ski hard and fast go for it.



Interesting, I also have the Vento 10s. I ski hard occasionally, but they serve me just fine when I'm cruisin' with the kiddo. they were the only ones that had a toe-box that felt good.


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## basemoto (Dec 12, 2007)

i feel like it is hard to cruise when i am using them. I feel that the boot doesn't flex enough unless i am skiing hard. It could also be my skis. I have sx11 which is a stiff ski and hard to turn. So ultimately it is a combination of the ski and boot and probably more the ski.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 12, 2007)

basemoto said:


> i feel like it is hard to cruise when i am using them. I feel that the boot doesn't flex enough unless i am skiing hard. It could also be my skis. I have sx11 which is a stiff ski and hard to turn. So ultimately it is a combination of the ski and boot and probably more the ski.



You might want to visit a boot fitter. If your for/aft balance is off it can make it hard to flex the boot properly. That can also be a problem if the boot is too big.


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## basemoto (Dec 12, 2007)

nahh the boot is awesome and it fits perfectly i am just saying to get the most out of the boot you have to ski hard. I am not saying i am constantly in a race type of skiing but the boot really performs when you ski them hard.


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## Paul (Dec 13, 2007)

basemoto said:


> nahh the boot is awesome and it fits perfectly i am just saying to get the most out of the boot you have to ski hard. I am not saying i am constantly in a race type of skiing but the boot really performs when you ski them hard.



Yup. I also will set them to soft when not skiing aggressively. So that can make a difference as well.


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## MR. evil (Dec 15, 2007)

Well after skiing in the bumps all day on Friday at Hunter with the AZ crew, I realized just how badly I needed new boots. Even with all the buckles locked down at max, my feet were moving all over the place in my boots. So today Randi and I took a drive to Ski Market in Avon to check out the store and see what they had there for a selection. My plan was to make an appointment for a fitting with Dave Newman and go back sometime this week. 

While we were milling around looking in the boot section the guy in charge came over to see if we needed any help. I didn;t catch his last name but I am pretty sure his first name was Dave, and he was the one every one else working there in the boot area was coming to for advice. So I think I may have lucked out and got to work with Dave N. Either way, this guy was great. He spent a lot of time with me. He first shell sized me and I then tried on a pair of Nordica's with some foot beds that felt really good. From there he pulled several other boots that he though would work for me and I tried all of those on with foot beds as well. On some of the boots we even tried different foots beds to see if we could find the right one. In the end the first pair I tried on were the winners. From there he started to ask me if there were any small hot spots of loose spots for him to work on. There were no hot spots, but my heel didn't feel as secure as i wanted it to side to side. I didn't know if the boot was the right one, or if this was how a boot was supposed to fit.. So he taped on two small neoprene shims to either side of my heel. This adjustment locked my heel in really secure but didn't feel as comfortable as with out. So we removed the shims. He told me to ski in them a couple of times and then see if I wanted the shims added. The guy was great to work with! I ended up getting a pair of 2008 Nordica GTS 6 boots. I could have found them online for about $60 cheaper. But the extra money was well worth the attention I received. While there we also picked up Randi a pair of foot beds for her boots as well.

I am sitting on the couch breakiing on the boots as I type. It also looks like Randi and I are going to head to Sundown tonight, so I will also get a chance to test these babies out.

Thanks for all the advice.
Tim


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## wa-loaf (Dec 15, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> I am sitting on the couch breakiing on the boots as I type. It also looks like Randi and I are going to head to Sundown tonight, so I will also get a chance to test these babies out.



Before you head out did you have your bindings set for the new boots? Enjoy the Nordicas, I love mine.


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## MR. evil (Dec 15, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Before you head out did you have your bindings set for the new boots? Enjoy the Nordicas, I love mine.




I re-adjusted the bindings myself.


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## Greg (Dec 15, 2007)

Nice Tim. Good luck. You're pretty well set up with equipment. Now it's time to just log those miles!


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## MR. evil (Dec 15, 2007)

got to test out the new boots and foot beds tonight at Sundown....they were very nice! I felt much more secure in my boots and in control.


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## bvibert (Dec 16, 2007)

Glad Ski Market worked out so well for you Tim.


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## severine (Dec 16, 2007)

MR. evil said:


> got to test out the new boots and foot beds tonight at Sundown....they were very nice! I felt much more secure in my boots and in control.


Glad to hear Ski Market worked out for you! :beer:  

I think that guy was in there one time when I was looking for something (what exactly escapes me at the moment).  If it was, I was impressed with how thoroughly he was helping some customers.


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