# Ski areas that "seed" moguls



## Greg (Sep 29, 2004)

As an aspiring bumper, I love the evenly spaced bumps on less steep terrain acheived by manmade moguls. Let's list all the ski areas that you know of that offer "seeded" mogul runs. I know Loon does it, and I believe Catamount does on their Catamount trail. Based on Sunapee's challenge response, it seems they do to. Apparently Jiminy will start this season and Windham indicates they've been making moguls. Any other ski areas that you know of?


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## thetrailboss (Sep 29, 2004)

Greg said:
			
		

> As an aspiring bumper, I love the evenly spaced bumps on less steep terrain acheived by manmade moguls. Let's list all the ski areas that you know of that offer "seeded" mogul runs. I know Loon does it, and I believe Catamount does on their Catamount trail. Based on Sunapee's challenge response, it seems they do to. Apparently Jiminy will start this season and Windham indicates they've been making moguls. Any other ski areas that you know of?



I tried Sunapee's last year and they were truly ice bumps.   :-?   Not fun by any means.  

A few years back I saw Sunday River get White Heat ready for Bust and Burn and what they did was to groom over the bumps (using a winchcat) and let their ski patrollers/instructors carve out the bumps.


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## Charlie Schuessler (Sep 29, 2004)

thetrailboss said:
			
		

> I tried Sunapee's last year and they were truly ice bumps.   :-?   Not fun by any means.



I found Sunapee's bumps are only fun in the spring...


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## Charlie Schuessler (Sep 29, 2004)

With all due respect, I love unevenly spaced & sized bumps found on steep terrain created by skiers using their skis.  I feel better on conditions like that rather than the machine made bumps created by the grooming crew…to each his own.


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## Skier71787 (Sep 29, 2004)

Bradfod ski area has some pretty nice moguls.  The hill isnt that great but the moguls are definitly seeded.


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## Tin Woodsman (Sep 29, 2004)

I think man-made bumps are a pathetic abomination that take away from the challenge of skiing moguls.  They are homogenized and normalized.  Wouldn't want anyone to have to deal with unevenly spaced bumps and learn how to handle it, now would we?  I guess if you think that wide, straight trails that hold snow only due to snowmaking are what skiing's about, then man-made bumps will be for you.  To each their own I suppose, but it really just dumbs down the experience, IMHO.


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## Greg (Sep 29, 2004)

Tin Woodsman said:
			
		

> I think man-made bumps are a pathetic abomination that take away from the challenge of skiing moguls.  They are homogenized and normalized.  Wouldn't want anyone to have to deal with unevenly spaced bumps and learn how to handle it, now would we?  I guess if you think that wide, straight trails that hold snow only due to snowmaking are what skiing's about, then man-made bumps will be for you.  To each their own I suppose, but it really just dumbs down the experience, IMHO.


I disagree. Charlie can vouch for my mogul skills which are beginner to intermediate at best. I've found that seeded runs on the blues are (1) encouraging and (2) enjoyable. I think that it's better to offer intermediate bump runs that help skiers improve, and at the same time preserve the bump runs that form naturally on advanced terrain as a result of skier traffic. If a ski area even allows bumps to form on an intermediate run, they tend to be uneven and erratically spaced and not exactly conducive to learning to ski moguls correctly. I'm all for sowing the seeds...


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## Charlie Schuessler (Sep 30, 2004)

Greg understates his mogul skills which approach advanced skill level.  Self evaluation is difficult and I find he has very good balance, good independant foot action and good pressure skills.  All required for bump skiing.

I agree that seeded runs on the blues are encouraging and enjoyable for the recreational skier.  Also it's better to offer intermediate bump runs that help recreational skiers improve, rather than they be on advanced terrain where they become discouraged and in the way...

It is difficult watching any person struggle (seemingly for thier lives at times) on a trail like Superstar or Downdraft at Killington, and I suppose to have an alternative bump trail is good for everyone...


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## Greg (Sep 30, 2004)

Charlie Schuessler said:
			
		

> Greg understates his mogul skills which approach advanced skill level.


Maybe by the _end_ of this coming ski season...


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## trailbiscuit (Sep 30, 2004)

Most ski areas (98%) that host bump competition will seed their moguls.  A groomer will go out a lay the basics with a machine, and then let good bumpers ski them in. At SR, it's usually the Gould Academy freestyle team.  And 99% of the time, you'll find these on White Heat.  If you're looking for goods bumps, I would recommend trying to hit a ski area right after a bump competition, that's when they're usually the best.  Unless, of course, it's 18 degrees out and it was 43 and rainy the day before.  Can you say, "shattered patella"?


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 1, 2004)

I don't disagree that enabling intermediatte skiers to learn the bumps is a good thing.  By no means should aspiring bumpers be relegated to the likes of Outer limits to learn that skill.  But I think there is a better way to do it than man made bumps.  For example, Semi-tough at SB North may just be the best intermediate bump run I've ever seen.  Perfectly pitched ego bumps where the trail always eases off the pitch just in time to slow you down after a steeper section.  You can take it in 7 or 8 discreet sections at your own pace, stopping when you want to on a flat.  SB North, in its wisdom, pretty much leaves this trail to bump up most of the time.  Other hills should learn from this, as it provides a MUCH better launching pad for the aspiring bump skier vs. something they won't experience in the real world of moguls.


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## bvibert (Oct 1, 2004)

Semi-tough is a fun trail.  I skiied it when we were at SB last year.  There wasn't too many bumps on it when I skiied it though...


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## jwind (Oct 1, 2004)

trailbiscuit said:
			
		

> Most ski areas (98%) that host bump competition will seed their moguls.



Absolutely correct. As a former freestyle skier, i can attest to this. A groomer can't just go out and make bumps... it takes skiing afterwards. the groomer is just there to create an even tempo for competitions and such.



			
				trailbiscuit said:
			
		

> A groomer will go out a lay the basics with a machine, and then let good bumpers ski them in. At SR, it's usually the Gould Academy freestyle team.  And 99% of the time, you'll find these on White Heat.?



Funny you mention that. As a Gould Academy Alum i was one of them folks at one time...


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## sledhaulingmedic (Oct 1, 2004)

Wachusett, 10th Mt.

I think seeding moguls becomes more important as snowboarding becomes more popular.  They just can't get a good start, particularly at an area with a lot of intermediate and below level riders.


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## pfedorch (Jan 29, 2013)

Mount Snow in Vermont shows seeded moguls on intermediate and beginner trails.   I, personally, like it when they groom only half the trail, leaving skiers with the option to enter and leave the mogul field at any time.


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## marcski (Jan 29, 2013)

pfedorch said:


> Mount Snow in Vermont shows seeded moguls on intermediate and beginner trails.   I, personally, like it when they groom only half the trail, leaving skiers with the option to enter and leave the mogul field at any time.



WOW!!!  An 8.5 y.o. bump for your first post.  Impressive.


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## pfedorch (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah, I noticed that after I'd posted.   Found this forum by googling "seeded moguls" and thought it was worth joining, and adding my two cents.  I'm amazed at how many posts some of the members, like yourself, seem to have (thousands!).


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## AdironRider (Jan 29, 2013)

sledhaulingmedic said:


> Wachusett, 10th Mt.
> 
> I think seeding moguls becomes more important as snowboarding becomes more popular.  They just can't get a good start, particularly at an area with a lot of intermediate and below level riders.



Any backup for that statement?


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## WWF-VT (Jan 29, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Any backup for that statement?



You want him to backup a post made in 2004 ?


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## Nick (Jan 29, 2013)

Hehe. This is an old one! Welcome to the forum pfedorach!


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## AdironRider (Jan 29, 2013)

WWF-VT said:


> You want him to backup a post made in 2004 ?



Accountabilty has no exparation date, but I want replying to him in the first place.


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## gmcunni (Jan 29, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Accountabilty has no exparation date




In the majority of locations within the United States, including at the federal level, the statute of limitations for perjury is five years.


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## AdironRider (Jan 29, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> In the majority of locations within the United States, including at the federal level, the statute of limitations for perjury is five years.




Im sure you are the life of the party.


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## 2knees (Jan 30, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> In the majority of locations within the United States, including at the federal level, the statute of limitations for perjury is five years.




:grin:


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## 2knees (Jan 30, 2013)

pfedorch said:


> Mount Snow in Vermont shows seeded moguls on intermediate and beginner trails.   I, personally, like it when they groom only half the trail, leaving skiers with the option to enter and leave the mogul field at any time.



except that you have people just randomly entering from the sides without deferring to the uphill skier who has the right of way.....


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## Smellytele (Jan 30, 2013)

2knees said:


> except that you have people just randomly entering from the sides without deferring to the uphill skier who has the right of way.....



they can do that from within the moguls as well...


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## o3jeff (Jan 30, 2013)

2knees said:


> except that you have people just randomly entering from the sides without deferring to the uphill skier who has the right of way.....



Thats what I do so I can hop in where there is a good line then hop out.


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## 2knees (Jan 30, 2013)

o3jeff said:


> Thats what I do so I can hop in where there is a good line then hop out.



yeah but i, as the uphill skier, always have the right of way.


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## gmcunni (Jan 30, 2013)

2knees said:


> yeah but i, as the uphill skier, always have the right of way.


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## Nick (Jan 30, 2013)

gmcunni said:


>



:lol:


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## Conrad (Jan 30, 2013)

trailbiscuit said:


> Most ski areas (98%) that host bump competition will seed their moguls.  A groomer will go out a lay the basics with a machine, and then let good bumpers ski them in. At SR, it's usually the Gould Academy freestyle team.  And 99% of the time, you'll find these on White Heat.  If you're looking for goods bumps, I would recommend trying to hit a ski area right after a bump competition, that's when they're usually the best.  Unless, of course, it's 18 degrees out and it was 43 and rainy the day before.  Can you say, "shattered patella"?



I've never seen White Heat's moguls "seeded" although I'm guessing it's been done before. However, they seed the moguls on Tempest all the time for competitions.

Also, Shawnee Peak has a trail they usually seed moguls on.


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## Bene288 (Jan 30, 2013)

Belleayre run is usually seeded the last 1/3 skiers left. First bump field I ever went in. Years ago I went into the glade skiers left of the bumps, when I think on it, it may have been one of the first times I ventured into the trees. I had to exit the trees into the bump field to avoid death cookies the size of volleyballs. I kept it together and didn't wipe out, but it wasn't pretty.


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## gorgonzola (Jan 31, 2013)

blue mountain pa has been seeding moguls for the last 4-5 years now and have it down to a science as far as spacing. barneys/main st is usually always bumped up from the get go (although this year with the late partial opening they seeded a line on come around for opening day or soon thereafter)and soemtimes have as many as 3 trails with seeded bumps with nightmare and challenge. the nice thing about them is once they become too hard or deep they knock em down and start over. theres a good bunch of mogul skiers that pushed for this and put together a comp every year. this year theres a few jr and adult clinics and maybe even some teams will come out of it. my son is in the jr clinic/team - its awesome to see these kids into skiing the bumps!


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## pfedorch (Feb 7, 2013)

In this video (posted by gmcunni) where are the chairs going uphill?!   Where was this taken?


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## steamboat1 (Feb 7, 2013)

pfedorch said:


> In this video (posted by gmcunni) where are the chairs going uphill?!   Where was this taken?



That's got to be the Jug at Kiliington. The old South Ridge chair only had one set of chairs going downhill. The up hill side went a different way with a turn in the middle.

Speaking of seeding trails K usually seeds sections of lower Bunny Buster, lower Skyelark, lower Vertigo, lower Outer Limits, & lower Conclusion. Don't know if they done so yet this year. Also heard they plan on seeding lower Superstar (skiers left) this season. I know they haven't even blown snow yet on lower Conclusion this year.


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## powhunter (Feb 8, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> That's got to be the Jug at Kiliington. The old South Ridge chair only had one set of chairs going downhill. The up hill side went a different way with a turn in the middle.
> 
> Speaking of seeding trails K usually seeds sections of lower Bunny Buster, lower Skyelark, lower Vertigo, lower Outer Limits, & lower Conclusion. Don't know if they done so yet this year. Also heard they plan on seeding lower Superstar (skiers left) this season. I know they haven't even blown snow yet on lower Conclusion this year.




Bah ha ha...I took that vid of 2knees on the jug a few years ago....That chick poacher came outta nowhere!!  Jug/Handle has great bumps when there is snow!

Steveo


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## pfedorch (Feb 12, 2013)

According to Killington's trail map, there is no *South Ridge Chair.*   I haven't been to Killington for quite some time; is this a chair that once existed, but has now been dismantled?   ( it _was_ referred to as the "old" South Ridge chair).


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## 4aprice (Feb 12, 2013)

pfedorch said:


> According to Killington's trail map, there is no *South Ridge Chair.*   I haven't been to Killington for quite some time; is this a chair that once existed, but has now been dismantled?   ( it _was_ referred to as the "old" South Ridge chair).



Yes, South Ridge Triple is no more.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## gmcunni (Feb 12, 2013)

you can see it here


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## Boston Bulldog (Feb 12, 2013)

Sunapee seeds on Flying Goose, Lift Line, Upper Chipmunk and Cataract. I find it weird that they don't have any natural mogul trails and prefer to do it the hard way... Trails like Hansen Chase would be a good option for that. They left that baby ungroomed on Sunday and the multitude of lines available was incredible.


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## ss20 (Feb 12, 2013)

pfedorch said:


> According to Killington's trail map, there is no *South Ridge Chair.*   I haven't been to Killington for quite some time; is this a chair that once existed, but has now been dismantled?   ( it _was_ referred to as the "old" South Ridge chair).



You may have heard of one of these:
South Fridge
Rust Ridge
South Ridge Cripple
Or maybe you've heard my combination of the 3:
Rust Fridge Cripple

RIP one of the greatest chairs in the NE.  Not the terrain, the speed, or weather, but the turn.


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## pfedorch (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks for this trail map!  I've never seen a lift that split like that.


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## 4aprice (Feb 13, 2013)

Boston Bulldog said:


> Sunapee seeds on Flying Goose, Lift Line, Upper Chipmunk and Cataract. I find it weird that they don't have any natural mogul trails and prefer to do it the hard way... Trails like Hansen Chase would be a good option for that. They left that baby ungroomed on Sunday and the multitude of lines available was incredible.



Interesting question BB.   Is it really the hard way?  What do most people prefer?  I get to ski both during the season.  I get to Blue where they regularly seed by machine, CBK lets things bump naturally, so does Elk, I think.  I tend to enjoy both as the seeded moguls when done well have great lines and are fun to rip, but I also like the challanges of a natural bump run where the lines can be less predictable (and actually move as traffic dictates).  Having both would be alot of fun.  I freely admit that I do not know what it takes to drive a cat and what "touch" one needs to put up good bumps.  I know the driver at Blue is very good.  Here in the land of the snow gun (PA) being able to seed by machine is a big help.  All I know is we need more bumps (like more cowbell).

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## jack97 (Feb 13, 2013)

Back a couple of years, I use to go to Sunapee on a regular basis. They had certain trail with no grooming to the side, the trouble with that approach is when they had a snow drought or a thaw to freeze cycle, those sections were hardly used at all and didn't have any shape. Given their cliental, I can easily understand them grooming those unused section in bad seasons.


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## Boston Bulldog (Feb 13, 2013)

How about a fusion between the two? One half seeded, one half natural.

That would be one epic run:smile:


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