# Bindings for my bump skis



## MR. evil (Mar 14, 2008)

I just pixked up a pair of K2 Cabrawlers for a song, and I now need a pair of binding for them. Several of people have mentioned the Look PX12 or the Rossi Axial2 120's. I found these Axial2's online and can get them for $87 with a coupon code. I was also told that I should binding with flat mounts for the bumps skis, but I am not sure these are flat mounts.

http://www.evogear.com/outlet/alpine-ski-bindings/rossignol-axial-2-120.aspx


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 14, 2008)

That looks like it has a lifter plate to it.  It adds a few MM's (dont know how many) to the height your boot sits at.


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## jack97 (Mar 14, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> I just pixked up a pair of K2 Cabrawlers for a song, and I now need a pair of binding for them. Several of people have mentioned the Look PX12 or the Rossi Axial2 120's. I found these Axial2's online and can get them for $87 with a coupon code. I was also told that I should binding with flat mounts for the bumps skis, but I am not sure these are flat mounts.
> 
> http://www.evogear.com/outlet/alpine-ski-bindings/rossignol-axial-2-120.aspx



iirc, Look PX12 has a height of 26 mm, the lifter version adds another 6 mm  (slightly less than 1/4") in height and the jib version adds 3 mm.

I do recall (vaguely) and confirmed by hawk that the Axial2 is the lifter version of the PX12 or Rossi Scratch 120. 

Most bummpers don't want that type of rise and rather ski close to the ground by choosing a flat ski and binding.

Having said that, it is a nice deal. IMO, the extra 6mm would make much of a difference for some one starting out.


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## MR. evil (Mar 14, 2008)

I talked to the owner of my local ski shop, he has the PX12 JIB on sale for like $130, but I buy alot from the guy and have been a customer for years. He usually knocks off a few extra bucks for me. I am going to head down to his shop tommorrow and see if I can get a deal. If not I may just order these Rossi's. Like you said, given my skill level in the bumps, I doubt it will really make a differance.


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## powbmps (Mar 14, 2008)

> you will not experience pre-releases



Maybe I should pick up a pair.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 14, 2008)

powbmps said:


> Maybe I should pick up a pair.



In the past 3 years I have gone through 5 pairs of Axials, and other than the first trip were I had the skier type too low I have never pre-released.  But I don't do moguls so I am not speaking in that area.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 14, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> That looks like it has a lifter plate to it.  It adds a few MM's (dont know how many) to the height your boot sits at.



I have a pair of those exact bindings(slightly different colors though...) sitting in my room, so I thought I would take some pictures.  

The binding....






Side view of the lifter plate.  I do not have a way to measure it's height as the edges are taller than the part that the binding actually sits on.





Top view of the plate.





How much difference is their really between a lifter and not having a lifter?  That is for you to decide.  On powder skis it is "preferred" not to have lifters, but I put them on to get the ski on edge easier for when i ski trails, and notice no difference in the powder.  I know different areas of use, just giving my thoughts.


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## jack97 (Mar 15, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> I talked to the owner of my local ski shop, he has the PX12 JIB on sale for like $130, but I buy alot from the guy and have been a customer for years. He usually knocks off a few extra bucks for me. I am going to head down to his shop tommorrow and see if I can get a deal.



The jib version has the 3mm rubber cushion to absorb impact from landings. It might be a good binding to learn bumps with in case of mistiming.

Ask your local shop if he can take some money off on the mount. Local shops around my area will charge any where from 25-40 for a new mount.


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## ed-drum (Mar 25, 2008)

I have been using Look bindings since the 70's and never had a problem with them. Never fell out of them and never twisted up my knee. They have a higher rebound to snap back in (1"). I notice that the majority of pros that I see on tv use them.  I won't use anything else. Cost is not a factor with me, for it is cheaper to spend more on equipment than an ambulance ride. I ski bumps and when I hear a "click" and see someone go down near me it is a Marker. I told a guy I know about that who uses them and he gave me an argument. He tore up his knee two weeks ago and is down and out for a long time. Ed.


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## tekweezle (Mar 27, 2008)

anybody have any opinions on how the Tyrolia LD12 RFII bindings would work on mogul skis?  if level9sports has the mad trix mogul skis for 99$ again, i might take a flyer on them and the bindings i;d like to put on them are these they sell for 89$.

i know the RF plate adds some height. not ideal for park and freestyle but good for all mountain carving which is what i do about 90% of the time anyway.  

i am not going to exactly be zippering down moguls.  actually, i do the slow tail slap type of technique in the moguls.  actually, i suck in the moguls which is why i want to try a mogul specific ski.


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## Greg (Mar 27, 2008)

tekweezle said:


> anybody have any opinions on how the Tyrolia LD12 RFII bindings would work on mogul skis?  if level9sports has the mad trix mogul skis for 99$ again, i might take a flyer on them and the bindings i;d like to put on them are these they sell for 89$.
> 
> i know the RF plate adds some height. not ideal for park and freestyle but good for all mountain carving which is what i do about 90% of the time anyway.
> 
> i am not going to exactly be zippering down moguls.  actually, i do the slow tail slap type of technique in the moguls.  actually, i suck in the moguls which is why i want to try a mogul specific ski.



I don't know anything about those bindings, but the name "Railflex" sounds to me like it's a demo binding and includes some junk on there you really don't want from an added weight standpoint. Just looks for some cheepy Rossis or Looks on eBay and have a local shop do the mount. If you carve 90% of the time, this is not the best ski choice. If you're looking to get a bump specific ski, then set it up that way, i.e. flat bindings, no lifters. It's kind of pointless otherwise.

Also, not sure what the slow "tail slap" technique is, but keep in mind the point of a comp level bump ski like this is to run the zipper, WC style (or as close to it as you can get). The narrowness and soft tails facilitate that. You might struggle trying to carve them through the bumps which could just frustrate you. It's my understanding that the Mad Trix is stiff as far as bump skis go and rewards you for skiing it well, but penalizes you for not staying on the gas. Brian and Pat ski on them. Perhaps they can better evaluate the ski.


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## tekweezle (Mar 27, 2008)

okay, so any sort of lifters/plate not ideal in moguls.


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## bvibert (Mar 27, 2008)

Greg said:


> Brian and Pat ski on them. Perhaps they can better evaluate the ski.



It's a skinny ass ski that's more like having a couple of 1x4s strapped to your feet.  And they have scary snakes on them that _everyone_ will comment about.  Actually in all seriousness they did carve some decent GS type turns when they were actually tuned.  I've never skied on any other bump skis so I can't comment on the relative stiffness too much, but they do seem much less stiff than my other two pairs of all mountain skis.  They will punish you if you spend too much time in the back seat and will reward you if you can stay centered or a bit forward.


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## Greg (Mar 27, 2008)

tekweezle said:


> okay, so any sort of lifters/plate not ideal in moguls.



Not going to kill you, but my feeling is if you're going through the exercise of buying a bump ski, then set it up the way it should be set up. Personally, I like being close to the snow on my bump skis. The point of lifters is to give you room to throw down carves without booting out (not that I could ever get a ski on edge that much). Obviously not much carving happens in the bumps. I guess there is some nominal weight savings too, but really how much do plastic lifters weigh anyway? A demo binding might add some significant weight though.


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## bvibert (Mar 27, 2008)

tekweezle said:


> okay, so any sort of lifters/plate not ideal in moguls.



Not ideal no.  I actually have Look PX12 demo bindings on mine, which are basically on lifters.  They seem to be working OK.  I wish I had went with regular PX12s though (level nine had the demos for $99 w/ free mounting so I went with that out of convenience..).


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## tekweezle (Mar 27, 2008)

i run the RF II binding on my Salomon Scream Limited for all mountain usage.  I like them because you can move the binding forward and backwards to change the characteristics of the skis to suit the terrain(more forwards for quicker turning, more backwards for better balance in powder).   the added height of the RF plate helps with carving.

getting them mounted on a pair of skis like this would totally be a cost/flexibility thing.   but it's sounding like not a good idea as the added height of the plate would interfere with skiing in moguls.


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## Greg (Mar 27, 2008)

tekweezle said:


> i run the RF II binding on my Salomon Scream Limited for all mountain usage.  I like them because you can move the binding forward and backwards to change the characteristics of the skis to suit the terrain(more forwards for quicker turning, more backwards for better balance in powder).   the added height of the RF plate helps with carving.
> 
> getting them mounted on a pair of skis like this would totally be a cost/flexibility thing.   but it's sounding like not a good idea as the added height of the plate would interfere with skiing in moguls.



Again, I'm nitpicking, and you might not notice a difference from a height or even weight standpoint. Also, realize that for bumps you're going to want to be forward all the time so adjustability is not a concern. The rule of thumb is to mount bindings on bump skis 1-4 cm forward of the standard mounting point. Does this really make a difference for the recreational skier like us? Probably not, but again, if you're going so far as to buy a bump ski, then apparently you're already looking for gear that will give you an edge. Might as well go all the way...


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## bvibert (Mar 27, 2008)

Ideally you want to find a light, flat mount binding.  All that ability to move the binding adds weight too...


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## wa-loaf (Mar 27, 2008)

I don't know if they are as flat as the Looks, but these would be better choice over the Rail Flex. http://www.levelninesports.com/head-tyrolia-2008-silverblack-ski-bindings-p-3006.html

There is some rise to them, but no plate or anything.


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## Greg (Mar 27, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I don't know if they are as flat as the Looks, but these would be better choice over the Rail Flex. http://www.levelninesports.com/head-tyrolia-2008-silverblack-ski-bindings-p-3006.html
> 
> There is some rise to them, but no plate or anything.



That looks perfect.


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## tekweezle (Mar 27, 2008)

those are the exact same bindings I have without the railflex plate system.  Instead of mounting to a plate, it mounts on any flat ski like a regular binding.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 27, 2008)

I dont like to bash any ski equipment, but I would never be on Tyrolia Bindings....In the info that is sent to shops on what is still alowed to be worked on there is not a single Tyrolia binding pre-01' or 02'(don't have the papers in front of me) that Tyrolia will let a shop work on.  That does not say a whole lot about their quality.  

We do not get many Tyrolia's in our shop because we have never a carrier for them, and our local competition is a big place for them.  But I fail 1/4-1/2 of the ones that do come in.
Do you want to trust your legs to that?


I would love to try some Elan or Fischer skis, but not when they are teamed with Tyrolia for their system bindings......


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## mondeo (Mar 27, 2008)

bvibert said:


> Ideally you want to find a light, flat mount binding.  All that ability to move the binding adds weight too...



And not Marker. :uzi:


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## wa-loaf (Mar 27, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> I dont like to bash any ski equipment, but I would never be on Tyrolia Bindings....In the info that is sent to shops on what is still alowed to be worked on there is not a single Tyrolia binding pre-01' or 02'(don't have the papers in front of me) that Tyrolia will let a shop work on.  That does not say a whole lot about their quality.
> 
> We do not get many Tyrolia's in our shop because we have never a carrier for them, and our local competition is a big place for them.  But I fail 1/4-1/2 of the ones that do come in.
> Do you want to trust your legs to that?
> ...



Just make sure you buy the metal ones, the plastic ones seem to cause a lot of trouble. The stuff they made in the was was total crap, didn't know the 90s stuff was bad too.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 27, 2008)

mondeo said:


> And not Marker. :uzi:



If you had a pair of these you'll never pop out: http://cgi.ebay.com/MARKER-ski-Bind...ryZ21238QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

15-30 DIN :lol:


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## deadheadskier (Mar 27, 2008)

I would stay the hell away from the Axial2's.

I've got a pair on my B2's and they have issues if you ask me.  Getting into them is a MAJOR PITA.  I've brought them back to be tested twice and they still don't work right.  Maybe I got a 'lemon' pair, but no matter how clean the surface of my boot, when I go to step into them, I can't just click in. The binding only closes half way and I end up having to grab the heal piece by hand and yank it up to have it close fully.

Annoying as hell.


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## Greg (Mar 27, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> I would stay the hell away from the Axial2's.
> 
> I've got a pair on my B2's and they have issues if you ask me.  Getting into them is a MAJOR PITA.  I've brought them back to be tested twice and they still don't work right.  Maybe I got a 'lemon' pair, but no matter how clean the surface of my boot, when I go to step into them, I can't just click in. The binding only closes half way and I end up having to grab the heal piece by hand and yank it up to have it close fully.
> 
> Annoying as hell.



I always thought the Axial2 and the Look PX12 were the same binding. They look identical. Interestingly enough, I have the same issue with the Rossis, but not with the Looks. I found I really have to stomp on the Rossis to get them to close


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## deadheadskier (Mar 27, 2008)

Greg said:


> I always thought the Axial2 and the Look PX12 were the same binding. They look identical. Interestingly enough, I have the same issue with the Rossis, but not with the Looks. I found I really have to stomp on the Rossis to get them to close



Sometimes just stomping works, but most of the time I have to reach down and pull it up.  And it's not like I'm a light weight.  You would think 200 pounds with the binding only set on 7 would be enough.  NOPE

Prior to this I had always been a Marker guy and never had a problem.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 27, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> I would stay the hell away from the Axial2's.
> 
> I've got a pair on my B2's and they have issues if you ask me.  Getting into them is a MAJOR PITA.  I've brought them back to be tested twice and they still don't work right.  Maybe I got a 'lemon' pair, but no matter how clean the surface of my boot, when I go to step into them, I can't just click in. The binding only closes half way and I end up having to grab the heal piece by hand and yank it up to have it close fully.
> 
> Annoying as hell.



Currently own 3 pairs on skis, and have had 2 others in the past 2 years.  Never had this problem...;-)


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## deadheadskier (Mar 27, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Currently own 3 pairs on skis, and have had 2 others in the past 2 years.  Never had this problem...;-)



well, looks like a got a lemon then

first pair of Rossi bindings ever and after this experience I will be unlikely to get another pair soon.  Oddly, I'm about as big of a fan of Rossignol skis as you might find.....


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## jack97 (Mar 27, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> well, looks like a got a lemon then
> 
> first pair of Rossi bindings ever and after this experience I will be unlikely to get another pair soon.  Oddly, I'm about as big of a fan of Rossignol skis as you might find.....



Psst.... maybe the heel piece has to be adjusted. The little lever in the back lifts up so the piece can slide back a little. Just make sure the line stays on the yellow bar/window area when the boot is in the binding after the adjustment, that indicates the pressure is still right in that area. But I won't say that under oath.... better yet had the shop do it. 


OK, from my experience, I had some slight problem getting into one of the bindings (look px12) with my old boots, after getting a new pair and having the heel piece moved up, it seems to have solve the problem.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 27, 2008)

jack97 said:


> Psst.... maybe the heel piece has to be adjusted. The little lever in the back lifts up so the piece can slide back a little




oh, I'm aware, tried to wiggle them a bit myself and brought them into a pro twice....maybe the binding in general is good, but my particular pair SUCKS


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## bvibert (Mar 28, 2008)

My PX12's are a little funky to get into sometimes.  They'll only close part way, but then they'll close the rest of the way when I lift my boot heel a little.  I think it's only one of the bindings that does this, but it's not a big enough deal for me to really look into it too much.


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## powbmps (Mar 29, 2008)

bvibert,

My PX14's were the same way when I went from my Langes (307mm) to my Kryptons (306mm).  It was the forward pressure.  The ski shop moved the heel piece forward slightly until the yellow was halfway in the "window".  Now they work fine.


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## bvibert (Mar 31, 2008)

powbmps said:


> bvibert,
> 
> My PX14's were the same way when I went from my Langes (307mm) to my Kryptons (306mm).  It was the forward pressure.  The ski shop moved the heel piece forward slightly until the yellow was halfway in the "window".  Now they work fine.



When I set them up the yellow was half way in the window.  Admittedly, I haven't checked the forward pressure since.  Thanks for the tip.  Maybe I'll time to play with it in the off season...


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## 2knees (Mar 31, 2008)

In regards to the Head Mad Trix ski.

snakes rule man, they rule.  

the ski is awesome in bumps and yes, it is very stiff.  I've had issues with them on rock hard bumps.  they really really want to shoot out from under you.  Other than that, i've used them every single day this year except for my first day out.  Powder, crud, trees, ice, bumps you name it.  Do they help outside the bumps, no.  In the bumps they are freakin awesome.  Just dont ski backseat on them.

And to offer my two cents on the binding question.  Tim, dont get into this over analyzation of equiptment. I havent ever paid one iota of attention to what bindings i put on my skis except for price.  I think i manage ok.


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## jack97 (Mar 31, 2008)

powbmps said:


> bvibert,
> 
> My PX14's were the same way when I went from my Langes (307mm) to my Kryptons (306mm).  It was the forward pressure.  The ski shop moved the heel piece forward slightly until the yellow was halfway in the "window".  Now they work fine.





bvibert said:


> When I set them up the yellow was half way in the window.  Admittedly, I haven't checked the forward pressure since.  Thanks for the tip.  Maybe I'll time to play with it in the off season...




The look px and rossi is designed such that when the tab is within the yellow window, the pressure is "right", the DIN will work at the dialed setting. 

As with powbmps, I went to a smaller boot, the reel heel had to move forward until the tab was within the yellow window.


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