# Suggestions for decent video editing software?



## Greg (Nov 26, 2006)

Looking for something basic to add captions, transitions, some background music, and maybe a title/credits screen for online videos. Something of good quality, but reasonably priced, or better yet free. Suggestions?


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## andyzee (Nov 26, 2006)

V's favorite, she does all the editing, has been Pinnacle Systems Studio. It's an extremely versitale product for the price. Be forwarned though, it can be a bit buggy in Windows, be sure to check out the minimum requirements, especially for a  graphics card.  http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSi.../Home+Video/Studio+Family/Studio_Software.htm


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## riverc0il (Nov 26, 2006)

basic video editing starts at $50. decent video editing software usually starts around $100. i use pinnacle studio for my video editing which gives you a lot of control over stuff, that is a $100 product. they have a more basic version for $50 called dazzle. i also looked at the ulead stuff, which i found pinnacle slightly better for offering more control.i think the ulead product is video studio ($70) and the plus version ($100). check out the demos, you will quickly see the limitations of the cheaper versions. the freebie EOM versions of the products tend to be automatic sequences which i find to be rather terrible with no manual control. i have yet to find a cable open source product that can step up to the full featured versions of these programs. i did try a few freebie products (can't remember the names) but they were more hassle than they were worth and had inferior controls. you get what you pay for and i think it is worth while considering paying a little extra for a good product that offers more control.


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## MichaelJ (Nov 26, 2006)

I have Quicktime Pro and Final Cut Express for my Mac. They've handled everything I've thrown at them so far. Unfortunately, neither of them was free; however, QT Pro is not pricy at all, and does do saving in different formats as well as basic conversions (like rotating a point-and-shoot camera's movie 90 degrees).


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## ski_resort_observer (Nov 26, 2006)

I too would like some info on that. I just discovered, or should I say a 12 yo at the TD dinner I went to pointed it out to me, that I have video I my point and shoot dig camera as well. 

When I bought the camera I really didn't want video, wanted ALL the technology focused on photographs. I was perfectly happy thinking I did not have it but now that I know I do might as well have some fun with it.


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## YardSaleDad (Nov 26, 2006)

You can start off with Windows Movie Maker 2.1.  It is free with Windows XP.  It is pretty versatile for MS freebie.  There is also a pretty good community for support.  http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/

Once you want to actually drop money on this, then I prefer Sony Vegas.  The Movie Studio edition of Vegas starts at $89.00 and  is very full featured.  It is an easy upgrade to the pro version should you get serious about this stuff.  

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/products/vegasfamily.asp


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## Greg (Nov 26, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> You can start off with Windows Movie Maker 2.1.  It is free with Windows XP.  It is pretty versatile for MS freebie.  There is also a pretty good community for support.  http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/


Wow! This is a pretty neat app. Certainly meets all my needs. I played around with it for a few hours and this is what I came up with:

*Mount Snow - 11/25/2006*

I have to be honest. I borrowed some techniques that Steve uses in his vids. It's my first attempt so please be kind, but let me know what you think!


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 27, 2006)

Good stuff Greg, looked to be some decent cover...


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## Marc (Nov 27, 2006)

I thought it was pretty damn good Greg.  Especially for a first attempt.

There was one real big thing missing, however, from the video.








That would be me, of course.


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## Greg (Nov 27, 2006)

Marc said:


> There was one real big thing missing, however, from the video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That my friend is your problem! 

Thanks for the kind words.


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## YardSaleDad (Nov 27, 2006)

Greg said:


> It's my first attempt so please be kind, but let me know what you think!



Awesome debut!  


My only advice is to avoid the MS movie maker windows blue background and use black or white instead.


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## Greg (Nov 28, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> Awesome debut!
> 
> 
> My only advice is to avoid the MS movie maker windows blue background and use black or white instead.


Thanks YSD and thanks for the recommendation on XP Movie Maker; it certainly meets all my humble needs. There are a few other transitions I might try next time, but I'm not much for using a lot of different transitions - there's a fine line between mixing it up the right amount and coming up with something cheesy. I think the fade is still the best. I went with the simple approach this time. I really like the caption labels I used for members' names.

I went with that XP blue cuz it's similar to the blue in the AZ header. The next attempt for the Hunter gathering will improve with some better title and credit screens.


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## Paul (Nov 28, 2006)

Nice job, Greg. Very good for a first go-round. 

One question, since I'm at work right now, and am STILL on 2000, can you do slo-mo on the video portions? I've been playing with the photo montage software that's similar to this, but haven't tried the vid yet. I used to be a professional Videographer in a former life, and am looking forward to getting my hands into this stuff.


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## Greg (Nov 28, 2006)

Paul said:


> Nice job, Greg. Very good for a first go-round.
> 
> One question, since I'm at work right now, and am STILL on 2000, can you do slo-mo on the video portions? I've been playing with the photo montage software that's similar to this, but haven't tried the vid yet. I used to be a professional Videographer in a former life, and am looking forward to getting my hands into this stuff.



Thanks Paul. Haven't fooled with it that much yet. I have to imagine it's capable of doing that.


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## Paul (Nov 28, 2006)

Greg said:


> Thanks Paul. Haven't fooled with it that much yet. I have to imagine it's capable of doing that.



Of course, I just realized the irony of me asking that question. My videos already look like they're in slow-motion, and they're in real-time. :lol:


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## Greg (Nov 28, 2006)

Paul said:


> can you do slo-mo on the video portions?


There is a half-speed video filter built-in.


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## Paul (Nov 28, 2006)

Greg said:


> There is a half-speed video filter built-in.



Cool, thanks, I'll have to check it out when I get home.


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## YardSaleDad (Nov 28, 2006)

Greg said:


> There is a half-speed video filter built-in.



Which you can apply multiple times for super slow motion.


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## YardSaleDad (Nov 28, 2006)

Greg said:


> I'm not much for using a lot of different transitions - there's a fine line between mixing it up the right amount and coming up with something cheesy. I think the fade is still the best. I went with the simple approach this time.



I am fully with you on the "Less is more" approach


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## Paul (Nov 28, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> I am fully with you on the "Less is more" approach



Yup, meant to say that as well. Agreed, I've never been a fan of transitions, especially wipes. Fade or cut are usually best.


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## Paul (Nov 30, 2006)

Greg,
What file type did you use for your import? Did you import directly from the camera, or was it a file you already had imported?

I ask because I am using DVD as my capture medium, from a DVD camcorder. The files written on the DVD are .VOB. I use Super c (which I'm beginning to hate) to convert the .VOB files. I've tried converting to .avi which worked great until I tried to save the finished product. It wouldn't save, no matter what I did. Then I tried converting to .WMV figuring this was WMM's native format. Super c did a real crappy job, and didn't convert the whole file, but the segments that it did worked well. I also tried MP4, but apparently WMM has issues with mpeg formats. Go figure....


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## Greg (Nov 30, 2006)

Paul said:


> Greg,
> What file type did you use for your import? Did you import directly from the camera, or was it a file you already had imported?
> 
> I ask because I am using DVD as my capture medium, from a DVD camcorder. The files written on the DVD are .VOB. I use Super c (which I'm beginning to hate) to convert the .VOB files. I've tried converting to .avi which worked great until I tried to save the finished product. It wouldn't save, no matter what I did. Then I tried converting to .WMV figuring this was WMM's native format. Super c did a real crappy job, and didn't convert the whole file, but the segments that it did worked well. I also tried MP4, but apparently WMM has issues with mpeg formats. Go figure....



I believe for my footage, I used the file directly from the camera which is an AVI. I know for Brian's MOV files, I had to convert them to AVI first. I used a demo version of Blaze Media Pro for that. How about trying plugging in the video camera to the computer (FireWire, I'd imagine) and simply use the "Capture from video device" link? If that doesn't work, I think you'll need to find a converter that works better...


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## Paul (Nov 30, 2006)

Greg said:


> I believe for my footage, I used the file directly from the camera which is an AVI. I know for Brian's MOV files, I had to convert them to AVI first. I used a demo version of Blaze Media Pro for that. How about trying plugging in the video camera to the computer (FireWire, I'd imagine) and simply use the "Capture from video device" link? If that doesn't work, I think you'll need to find a converter that works better...



Yeah, that pretty much confirms what I was thinking. Thanks for the Blaze info. I'm going to try a few other tricks in the ol' sleeve before adding yet more software. ;-)  I also just realized I have DivX converter from some long-ago download, may try that. Yup, its a firewire cxn, and that is also on the dockett. Haven't done that because for some inexplicable reason I can only find my firewire to USB cable, and not the straight firewire cable. And I'm just too damn lazy (and cheap) to go out and get one. :lol: 

Thanks for the help.


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## hammer (Nov 30, 2006)

I have a few "basic" questions:  
What are the differences between AVI and MPEG?
Do most of the free packages out there convert AVI to MPEG?
Are there any good links to sites that explain all of this?
I'm curious because I sometimes shoot short videos on my Canon S2 and they are saved to huge AVI files.


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## Greg (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm new at this vid stuff and my knowledge is limited to the built-in Windows XP Movie Maker (which is pretty powerful for a free option, IMHO), but here goes:



hammer said:


> What are the differences between AVI and MPEG?


AVI is a higher resolution format. You can easily convert to MPG for distribution on the Web. I simply leave mine in WMV format.



hammer said:


> Do most of the free packages out there convert AVI to MPEG?


Windows Movie Maker can. See above.



hammer said:


> Are there any good links to sites that explain all of this?


http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/default.mspx
http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 2, 2006)

Greg said:


> AVI is a higher resolution format. You can easily convert to MPG for distribution on the Web. I simply leave mine in WMV format.




Actually it's more confusing than that:

AVI is a container format.  Depending on the codec used you get different resolutions and compression schemes.  mpeg, Mov, and WMV are all similarly complex with lot's of caveats.  For complete confusion check out these as starting points:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Interleave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/guides.htm

Keep in mind that WMV files only play on windows computers, and MOV requires quicktime to be installed for most files.  AVI and Mpeg plays well across most machines and video software.


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## riverc0il (Dec 2, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> Keep in mind that WMV files only play on windows computers, and MOV requires quicktime to be installed for most files.  AVI and Mpeg plays well across most machines and video software.



this is why i switched to .rm files instead of .wmv on my latest video. i have always despised quick time and generally will skip any video in MOV format. without special not entirely legal software, i can't even view .wmv on linux. .rm isn't entirely without its fault, but it works on all platforms and is a small file format. i would love to see a really great compression and play quality format that is not proprietary.


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## eatskisleep (Dec 2, 2006)

Sony Vegas 6 is for sale on BH for $99... that deal can't be beat.


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 2, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> .rm isn't entirely without its fault, but it works on all platforms and is a small file format. i would love to see a really great compression and play quality format that is not proprietary.



IMHO real media is as bad, if not worse than WMV since it is a closed format needing a player that borders on spyware.  Xvid is an open format that gives you top notch quality without the marketing/compatibility headaches and complete player independence.


http://www.xvid.org/

http://www.xvid.org/FAQ.14.0.html


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## riverc0il (Dec 2, 2006)

i hear you about real media and real player. on my PC, i use real player alternative. it still requires you download RP, but gives you a clean interface. the linux version i have also has a super clean GUI. RM is the lesser of the two evils when compared to microsoft and mac products.

xvid looks interesting but i assume a user would need the xvid player to play that media format? or can the codecs be installed into other players? i suspect most users would not bother downloading a new player just to play a video, nor a codec just to play a video. i certainly won't even considering installing quick time no matter how much i would want to see a vid coded to .mov. considering the widespread success of the mp3 format, it blows my mind that a clear winner for a video format has not surfaced.


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 2, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> xvid looks interesting but i assume a user would need the xvid player to play that media format? or can the codecs be installed into other players?



Read the faq.  It's a real live open source Mpeg-4 codec.  It works in every player I have ever tried it with.  MS does not want you using open source software, so they won't bundle it.  The install is simple.  

It's also the favorite of pirates everywhere, just like mp3.


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## riverc0il (Dec 2, 2006)

word, i probably should have read more before responding instead of just taking a cursory look and leaving it in a background tab for future reading  i'll do some testing and see how it works. funny about MS and open source since they just had some sorta agreement with novell i believe of suse fame.


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 2, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> funny about MS and open source since they just had some sorta agreement with novell i believe of suse fame.



IMHO, their ulterior motive is to divide the open source vendors, and protect their market share.  A leopard does not change it's spots.


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## riverc0il (Dec 2, 2006)

agreed, they definitely are up to something.

i just downloaded AutoGK which encodes to Xvid and converted my vid into .avi format. i am impressed, much much better compression than my video editing software was able to do in .avi format. in fact, i was able to get the same exact dimensions as my .rm video (320x240) at a slightly smaller total size. looks like i will be encoding to .avi in the future! i am still concerned about users without xvid compatible players not bothering to download the appropriate codec, we'll see how that plays out when i post the next video.


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 3, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> i am still concerned about users without xvid compatible players not bothering to download the appropriate codec, we'll see how that plays out when i post the next video.



There are some people who refuse to install real player ;-)  

Just post a link to the xvid codec next to the video.


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## bvibert (Dec 3, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> There are some people who refuse to install real player ;-)
> 
> Just post a link to the xvid codec next to the video.



Of all the available options I prefer not to install real player....


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## riverc0il (Dec 3, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> There are some people who refuse to install real player ;-)


word, i am the same way with quick time. good suggestion on linking to the codec with the vid, i will give it a shot and pending all goes well, i can feel better about not having a proprietary video format which makes me happy.


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## Paul (Dec 6, 2006)

Success at last!

.avi works fine as long as I use the MS-mpeg4-v2 CODEC. I was using the default, which I think is H.323. Yay!

Thanks all, esp Greg and YSD for giving me something ELSE to obsess over.


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## andyzee (Dec 6, 2006)

Yep, no real player here.


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 6, 2006)

Paul said:


> Thanks all, esp Greg and YSD for giving me something ELSE to obsess over.



Oh, if you wanted to obsess, you should have said so...

...http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

http://www.softweigh.com/video/diy.html

or for the truly sick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzqumbhfxRo


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## riverc0il (Dec 6, 2006)

andyzee said:


> Yep, no real player here.



then for andyzee and bvibert and any other folks that never got a chance to see the video because of choosing not to install real player, *here is octobers jay video* video in .avi format. codecs are *here* if you need them.


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## Paul (Dec 7, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> Oh, if you wanted to obsess, you should have said so...
> 
> ...http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/
> 
> ...



That was really impressive...

I remember trying to do quick edits like those for a promo video I was making for a client. The damn editing decks (Sony 3/4" machines from the stone age) kept slipping. The average tape slip was about 8-12 frames, made it damn near impossible. I'm guessing that's no longer a concern. Also wish I had some of those DIY steadycams back then, really could have done some cool stuff. Trouble is, I doubt they would've worked on those 30 lb cams I used to use.


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## Greg (Dec 7, 2006)

What kind of stuff are you working on, Paul? You should post some things here.


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## Paul (Dec 7, 2006)

Greg said:


> What kind of stuff are you working on, Paul? You should post some things here.



I have some vid I shot of the kid last year mostly at wildcat. Putting a little piece together like the one you posted. I'll post it after I'm done dinking around with it. Biggest problem I have right now is having time to really do something, I'm really just experimenting at this point...


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## bvibert (Dec 7, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> then for andyzee and bvibert and any other folks that never got a chance to see the video because of choosing not to install real player, *here is octobers jay video* video in .avi format. codecs are *here* if you need them.



Thanks Steve, but I did see it already.  I just don't like to have to install RM, though it seems better than it used to be...


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## andyzee (Dec 7, 2006)

riverc0il said:


> then for andyzee and bvibert and any other folks that never got a chance to see the video because of choosing not to install real player, *here is octobers jay video* video in .avi format. codecs are *here* if you need them.



Good stuff Steve, looks like you guys had a great day. Austin, try eating something dude, you're gonna waste away!


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## Marc (Dec 7, 2006)

andyzee said:


> Good stuff Steve, looks like you guys had a great day. Austin, try eating something dude, you're gonna waste away!



Yeah, but the kid climbs like he's on a rope tow.


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## Greg (Dec 7, 2006)

andyzee said:


> Austin, try eating something dude, you're gonna waste away!



Give the kid a break. He's just trying to emulate me....


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## SkiDork (Dec 8, 2006)

2 things:

1) That was awesome for your first time.  I've gotta check out Movie Maker.  

2) What song was that?


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## Greg (Dec 8, 2006)

SkiDork said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1) That was awesome for your first time.  I've gotta check out Movie Maker.
> 
> 2) What song was that?



Thanks and it was Sunburn by Fuel. Here's my next attempt; a short 2 minute video featuring JimG. and dmc at Hunter Mountain today:

*Hunter Video - 12/8/2006*

It was too damn cold today to grab a ton of footage, but it's something to document the day...


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## Greg (Dec 17, 2006)

My latest effort:

*Hunter - 12/15/2005*


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## riverc0il (Dec 17, 2006)

nice shots from hunter. sure looks a heck of a lot better than jay right now, that is for sure.


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## bvibert (Dec 17, 2006)

Here's my first effort, using Windows Movie Maker:
*Hunter 12/15/06*


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## Greg (Dec 18, 2006)

bvibert said:


> Here's my first effort, using Windows Movie Maker:
> *Hunter 12/15/06*



I praised your effort already in the other thread, but I'll repeat here. Nice job! Great use of some subtle effects. As a free option, WMM is actually pretty good.


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## bvibert (Dec 18, 2006)

Greg said:


> I praised your effort already in the other thread, but I'll repeat here. Nice job! Great use of some subtle effects. As a free option, WMM is actually pretty good.



Thanks again.  Yes, as much as I generally hate MS products, WMM is actually really good IMHO.  Especially when you consider that it's essentially free.  Much better than the piece of crap that came with my camcorder.  As a matter of fact the instruction manual (needed something to read in the can) for the camcorder actually recommends using WMM and doesn't even mention the junk they package with it...


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 18, 2006)

Greg said:


> As a free option, WMM is actually pretty good.





bvibert said:


> WMM is actually really good IMHO.



I've created Monsters!!!  :blink:

When you are ready for a move up, this is IMHO the best bang for the buck.

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/Products/ShowProduct.asp?PID=977


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## eatskisleep (Dec 18, 2006)

Sony Vegas.


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## SnowRider (Dec 18, 2006)

we need a video gallery along with the photo gallery


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## bvibert (Dec 19, 2006)

YardSaleDad said:


> I've created Monsters!!!  :blink:
> 
> When you are ready for a move up, this is IMHO the best bang for the buck.
> 
> http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/Products/ShowProduct.asp?PID=977



Damn you!  I downloaded the 30 day trial last night.  It's taking me a bit to figure everything out, but I don't know if I'll be able to go back to WMM now...



SnowRider said:


> we need a video gallery along with the photo gallery


Agreed!


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## YardSaleDad (Dec 20, 2006)

bvibert said:


> Damn you!  I downloaded the 30 day trial last night.  It's taking me a bit to figure everything out, but I don't know if I'll be able to go back to WMM now...



:grin:

Just remember what happens in Vegas...
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=54


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## bvibert (Jan 3, 2007)

Here's my first effort using Vegas (free trial version):

*Sundown 12/27/06 Small (6MB)*
*Sundown 12/27/06 Large (32MB)*

It's pretty short, and there's not much to it.  I only shot a few minutes of video that night and I really wanted to play with Vegas...


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Here's my first effort using Vegas (free trial version):
> 
> *Sundown 12/27/06 Small (6MB)*
> *Sundown 12/27/06 Large (32MB)*
> ...



So what did you find that Vegas did better or easier than WMM on this particular project? I notice your file sizes are much smaller.


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> So what did you find that Vegas did better or easier than WMM on this particular project? I notice your file sizes are much smaller.



Don't forget that the Hunter vid is over 8 minutes and the Sundown one is only a 3 minutes, so that probably accounts for most of the file size difference.

Vegas was actually a little harder to get started with, I didn't find it to be quite as intuitive as WMM.  That's probably because you can do a lot more with it.  I found it had more control over finely trimming the scenes, IE; you can zoom in right to the frame level so when you move the slider you aren't skipping over frames due to the resolution of the time scale.  It's way easier to speed up or slow down a scene if you want to, you aren't restricted to applying a half or double speed filter.  You can also play a clip in reverse if you need to (I did that in the closing scene where it starts on the trail and then pans to the moon and zooms in on it).  The text overlays are more powerful as well, they're more customizable than the WMM ones.

There's definitely more stuff that it can do that I haven't gotten into yet.  I'm probably going to end up buying it...


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2007)

bvibert said:


> IE; you can zoom in right to the frame level so when you move the slider you aren't skipping over frames due to the resolution of the time scale.



You can do this in WMM. There is a next frame button in the preview pane, or you can use Alt + left/right arrow...


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## bvibert (Jan 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> You can do this in WMM. There is a next frame button in the preview pane, or you can use Alt + left/right arrow...



Ah, guess I didn't play with it enough.


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## severine (Jan 4, 2007)

What happened to the fancy stuff you were working on in that video?  I know you spent a lot of time on that, but I don't see it here.


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## YardSaleDad (Jan 4, 2007)

Greg said:


> You can do this in WMM.



Oh, just give in to the dark side.  Download the trial and you will see the power of Vegas! 

bvibert: Nice  video


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2007)

severine said:


> What happened to the fancy stuff you were working on in that video?  I know you spent a lot of time on that, but I don't see it here.



Greg was pestering me to see the video so I decided to leave that stuff out since I hadn't finished it...  Maybe next time I can get more fancy.


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Greg was pestering me to see the video so I decided to leave that stuff out since I hadn't finished it...  Maybe next time I can get more fancy.



Blech. So it's my fault? What; were you going to superimposed Beavis on Temptor or something...?

You should file away all the night footage and make a Sundown compilation vid at the end of the season.


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2007)

Greg said:


> Blech. So it's my fault? What; were you going to superimposed Beavis on Temptor or something...?


Nah, but that's a good idea!   I was fooling around with matching some clips up the spots in the music where the drum goes Da Da Da in quick succession, like around 1:04.  It was coming out pretty good, I just didn't have the time to finish it up like I wanted to.  I think Severine is upset because she had to endure hearing me play that short few seconds of the drum part over and over and over again and now it was for nothing... 



> You should file away all the night footage and make a Sundown compilation vid at the end of the season.



I was just thinking that this morning...  Great minds or something like that...


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2007)

bvibert said:


> Great minds or something like that...



It's a white trash thing...


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## C2H5OH (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm late to this thread but must mention iMovie by Apple (free with you Mac purchase). It's very intuitive and easy to use, at the same time quite advanced.


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## bvibert (Jan 5, 2007)

C2H5OH said:


> I'm late to this thread but must mention iMovie by Apple (free with you Mac purchase). It's very intuitive and easy to use, at the same time quite advanced.



I haven't used it, but my wife has it on her Mac and said it works good.


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## Greg (Jun 20, 2007)

Just saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/ytremixer_about

Anyone try it?


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