# Late October Snowmaking?



## Greg (Oct 22, 2007)

All right - maybe I'm just dreaming here, but what the hell. Think there might be a chance of late October guns firing up anywhere in the Northeast? I still say the two best chances for early November openings would be Sugarloaf or Mount Snow with both Boyne and Peak Resorts wanting to make a statement. Well, take a look at these two 15 day forecasts:


Kingfield, Maine 15-Day Forecast
West Dover, Vermont 15-Day Forecast
 Those forecasts are for in-town so obviously the elevations should be colder. I know, I know, it's Accuweather and extended forecasts are never anything to hang your hat on (unless of course they are positive like these are. )

Anyway, let's all think *COLD!!!*


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## ERJ-145CA (Oct 22, 2007)

I'll add the 15 day forecast for Belleayre (actually the town of Highmount, NY) as it shows some promise too.  It looks like snowmaking temps after 11/02.  If it's right and the night time temps continue they should be able to open on their planned opening day of 11/10.

http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-15day.asp?partner=netweather&traveler=1&zipcode=12441&metric=0

P.S.  I don't know how to make the link all fancy like Greg with the name of the town and all.  And yes I know it's a long range forecast too, but I like to be optimistic.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 22, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Late October you say ?? I am beginning to think late November is going to be the earliest...:-?



Wow you're a pessimist...I'll be at Belleayre for their November 10th opening..they can do it with 3 nights of snowmaking


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## Vortex (Oct 22, 2007)

We will See.  Its never is early enough and always changes.


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## Greg (Oct 22, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I don't want to be but it is 76 degrees outside right now and I am right by the ocean... If you followed the red Sox thread I was totally wrong about that situation too .. I would be very happy to be proved wrong once again..
> ..



"If you don't like the weather in New England, just wait a few minutes."
_- Mark Twain_​


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 22, 2007)

I was pretty impressed with all those new fan snowguns Attitash now has lining up the lower trails. If they are so inclined opening a trail top to bottom should be alot easier for them than at alot of other resorts.


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## threecy (Oct 22, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I was pretty impressed with all those new fan snowguns Attitash now has lining up the lower trails. If they are so inclined opening a trail top to bottom should be alot easier for them than at alot of other resorts.



They certainly look a lot neater than a bunch of pipes sticking up, don't they?


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## Zand (Oct 22, 2007)

Anything can happen. In 2002 Wachusett opened on November 8th after just 2 nights of temps in the 20s (and days in the 40s)... it wasn't much and it melted 2 days later due to an indian summer, but it's possible to do some crazy stuff.


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## trtaylor (Oct 22, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I have a personal theory that there won't be sustain cold for snow making until the (eastern) Arctic re-freezes over in its entirely for the winter ...



Northern hemisphere ice and snow animation


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 22, 2007)

threecy said:


> They certainly look a lot neater than a bunch of pipes sticking up, don't they?



Don't tease me by actually agreeing with me.....:wink:


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## snowman (Oct 22, 2007)

Greg said:


> All right - maybe I'm just dreaming here
> 
> Anyway, let's all think *COLD!!!*



You're dreaming I'm afraid. The first time the loaf is going to even remotely be able to make snow is Nov 4th, and even then it's going to be tough with all the moisture in the air and ground from the forecasted precipitation leading up to that date. If the forecat keeps having those 19's in it from the 4th on out, they should be good to go after a day or 2 after that coupled with the colder temps leading up to the 19's. If they can get to blowing decent snow on frozen ground by the 6th they should be able to hit the opening date of the 17th with 1 trail or maybe a trail and a half


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## Angus (Oct 22, 2007)

flew over the CO rockies this AM - the rockies are covered in snow! It was strange to look down on Denver and see everything south of town covered in snow. got me imagining about skiing in earnest! closest winter weather I've seen in the east this fall was the 3rd week of August during our NH vacation - sleet on top of Mt. Washington and cold nights that required a fire at the cottage!


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## riverc0il (Oct 22, 2007)

Any one remember what happened last year when ski areas fired up the guns early in anticipation? Most of it if not all of it melted. And the only reason it got fired up that soon in many areas was because of three feet of natural snow near certain summits. I doubt we will see any snow making until an extended cold period with a favorable long term weather pattern occurs.


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## ERJ-145CA (Oct 23, 2007)

I just looked at the long range forecast for Belleayre again and it got even better, snowmaking temps starting 10/30.:smile:  I hope it's right.

http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-15day.asp?partner=netweather&traveler=1&zipcode=12441&metric=0


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 23, 2007)

ERJ-145CA said:


> I just looked at the long range forecast for Belleayre again and it got even better, snowmaking temps starting 10/30.:smile:  I hope it's right.
> 
> http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-15day.asp?partner=netweather&traveler=1&zipcode=12441&metric=0



There will be a large PASR contingent for Belleayres opening day..


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## Vortex (Oct 23, 2007)

http://www.accuweather.com/forecast...ox&traveler=0&zipChg=1&zipcode=04217&metric=0

This to me means guns start beginning of next week.


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

Bob R said:


> http://www.accuweather.com/forecast...ox&traveler=0&zipChg=1&zipcode=04217&metric=0
> 
> This to me means guns start beginning of next week.



That forecast is looking really good. I can see them starting by Nov 1 for sure with that one. Anyone who goes out blowing snow on night one of cold temps is a fool though. If they start on Monday, they'll lose half of what they blow that night to ground melt. I could see the River open with one trail by Sunday the 4th with that forecast


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 23, 2007)

snowman said:


> That forecast is looking really good. I can see them starting by Nov 1 for sure with that one. Anyone who goes out blowing snow on night one of cold temps is a fool though. If they start on Monday, they'll lose half of what they blow that night to ground melt. I could see the River open with one trail by Sunday the 4th with that forecast




I imagine alot of places are going to blow on the first night of cold temps...so what if they lose half of what they blow...that means that they still have half of the snow left to add to the next night:idea:You are such a pessimist and anti-stoke..,


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## tcharron (Oct 23, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I was pretty impressed with all those new fan snowguns Attitash now has lining up the lower trails. If they are so inclined opening a trail top to bottom should be alot easier for them than at alot of other resorts.



They are impressive when they fire them up at Crotched.  It's going to be insane to see THAT many more on a big mountain.






Within a few hours:


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I imagine alot of places are going to blow on the first night of cold temps...so what if they lose half of what they blow...that means that they still have half of the snow left to add to the next night:idea:You are such a pessimist and anti-stoke..,



Well, the half that's left ends up getting mixed with the mud that you create. It's just a dumb idea unless you really, really have to (as in it's Dec 15 and you still have a $hit forecast). With the extended forecast rolling out with progressively colder temps, any smart mountain ops team is going to wait for the ground to freeze a little and then roll with the lower temps. Anything 20 and up for a nightly LOW is worthless. Humidity typically runs in the 90+ at night range this time of year (70 at best on a good night) meaning you can barely make any snow at 20. Couple that with the fact you're talking about a LOW, and it only gives you a 2-4 hour operating window. Warm ground, and a warm daytime temp with a bit of wind WILL take ALL of that away the next day. Those days with lows in the 16's should give you a 8-12 hour operating window with 4-6 hours of temps where you can make some decent amounts of snow. If you can't put people on the mountain for a real shift, and you stand the chance of losing most of what you do make, you're not going to do it, unless you're insane.


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## bobbutts (Oct 23, 2007)

snowman said:


> That forecast is looking really good. I can see them starting by Nov 1 for sure with that one. Anyone who goes out blowing snow on night one of cold temps is a fool though. If they start on Monday, they'll lose half of what they blow that night to ground melt. I could see the River open with one trail by Sunday the 4th with that forecast



hah.. I hope it works out, but you are going to be very disappointed all winter long if you trust the long range GFS forecast.


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2007)

snowman said:


> That forecast is looking really good. I can see them starting by Nov 1 for sure with that one. Anyone who goes out blowing snow on night one of cold temps is a fool though. If they start on Monday, they'll lose half of what they blow that night to ground melt. I could see the River open with one trail by Sunday the 4th with that forecast



You're dreaming I'm afraid.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 23, 2007)

snowman said:


> Well, the half that's left ends up getting mixed with the mud that you create. It's just a dumb idea unless you really, really have to (as in it's Dec 15 and you still have a $hit forecast). With the extended forecast rolling out with progressively colder temps, any smart mountain ops team is going to wait for the ground to freeze a little and then roll with the lower temps. Anything 20 and up for a nightly LOW is worthless. Humidity typically runs in the 90+ at night range this time of year (70 at best on a good night) meaning you can barely make any snow at 20. Couple that with the fact you're talking about a LOW, and it only gives you a 2-4 hour operating window. Warm ground, and a warm daytime temp with a bit of wind WILL take ALL of that away the next day. Those days with lows in the 16's should give you a 8-12 hour operating window with 4-6 hours of temps where you can make some decent amounts of snow. If you can't put people on the mountain for a real shift, and you stand the chance of losing most of what you do make, you're not going to do it, unless you're insane.



According to the wet bulb chart..they can blow snow with temperatures in the mid to upper 20s and high humidity...I see i all the time at Blue mountain.  20 degrees for a night-time low is excellent...you really don't know what you're talking about...


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 23, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> According to the wet bulb chart..they can blow snow with temperatures in the mid to upper 20s and high humidity...I see i all the time at Blue mountain.  20 degrees for a night-time low is excellent...you really don't know what you're talking about...



According to the wet noodle chart if you want to open early you gotta blow, baby blow. Waiting for the ground to freeze is a luxury that just doesn't exist anymore. If you do get a real honest to goodness cold snap before you blow, it a bonus, for sure. No resort wants to be rated high on the wet noodle chart. :lol:


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## kingslug (Oct 23, 2007)

Angus said:


> flew over the CO rockies this AM - the rockies are covered in snow! It was strange to look down on Denver and see everything south of town covered in snow. got me imagining about skiing in earnest! closest winter weather I've seen in the east this fall was the 3rd week of August during our NH vacation - sleet on top of Mt. Washington and cold nights that required a fire at the cottage!



Now yer talkin.


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## Vortex (Oct 23, 2007)

Greg said:


> You're dreaming I'm afraid.




There is enough time to open I think if the temps actually come true.   All that being considered  You will see a before Nov 9th opening, but not that weekend of the 4th..    Probably the 2pm opening a few days early.  I'll be there one day opening weekend. Have to work around footballl till the weekend of the 17th.  The Sr regulars have all see it,  36 hours of good weather and you could see something off Locke.    Then they will let it set at least one day probably two.

 Boyne has alot it wants to show. It has won the publicity battle. Doing this would go a long way to back up what  most everyone belives will be a great ownership group..


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2007)

Bob R said:


> There is enough time to open I think if the temps actually come true.   All that being considered  You will see a before Nov 9th opening, but not that weekend of the 4th..    Probably the 2pm opening a few days early.  I'll be there one day opening weekend. Have to work around footballl till the weekend of the 17th.  The Sr regulars have all see it,  36 hours of good weather and you could see something off Locke.    Then they will let it set at least one day probably two.
> 
> Boyne has alot it wants to show. It has won the publicity battle. Doing this would go a long way to back up what  most everyone belives will be a great ownership group..



I'm with ya, Bob. I just like to point out snowman's backpedaling. 

I have reason to believe we should be keeping a very close eye on Attitash as well.


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## Vortex (Oct 23, 2007)

Like wise, two of the new groups appear out to prove something.


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

Bob R said:


> There is enough time to open I think if the temps actually come true.   All that being considered  You will see a before Nov 9th opening, but not that weekend of the 4th..    Probably the 2pm opening a few days early.  I'll be there one day opening weekend. Have to work around footballl till the weekend of the 17th.  The Sr regulars have all see it,  36 hours of good weather and you could see something off Locke.    Then they will let it set at least one day probably two.
> 
> Boyne has alot it wants to show. It has won the publicity battle. Doing this would go a long way to back up what  most everyone belives will be a great ownership group..



The pesimist is actually going to argue against you on this one. That forecast you posted today rocks. There should be a bit of frost in the ground by witching night with that one and I can see them firing up then or the next night at the latest? I'm thinking 3 x 12 hour nights of snowmaking should be more than enough to get something off locke or Barker open with their fire power?


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm with ya, Bob. I just like to point out snowman's backpedaling.
> 
> I have reason to believe we should be keeping a very close eye on Attitash as well.



Back peddling? The long term forecast was total crap a week ago with not even a freezing temp thru the end of the month. Now there's 4 or 5 coooold days before the end of the month and Decent night time snow making temps from the crack of midnight on Nov 1. I don't control the forecast. I said you need about a week of cold temps to freeze up your ground properly and sub 20's to blow decent snow. The forecast changed and provided exactly that, therefore, I am changing my snowmaking forecast. I will also point out I said there wasn't a chance in hell of skiing before the end of the month and I'm pretty darn sure I was correct on that.


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

The SR forecast also seems to kick the loaf's foecast too for some reason? The loaf is what we were originally looking at..


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2007)

snowman said:


> Back peddling?



Yes.

*Yesterday:*


snowman said:


> You're dreaming I'm afraid. The first time the loaf is going to even remotely be able to make snow is Nov 4th, and even then it's going to be tough with all the moisture in the air and ground from the forecasted precipitation leading up to that date. If the forecat keeps having those 19's in it from the 4th on out, they should be good to go after a day or 2 after that coupled with the colder temps leading up to the 19's. If they can get to blowing decent snow on frozen ground by the 6th they should be able to hit the opening date of the 17th with 1 trail or maybe a trail and a half



*Today:*


snowman said:


> That forecast is looking really good. I can see them starting by Nov 1 for sure with that one. Anyone who goes out blowing snow on night one of cold temps is a fool though. If they start on Monday, they'll lose half of what they blow that night to ground melt. I could see the River open with one trail by Sunday the 4th with that forecast



Just sayin'...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 23, 2007)

I love it when Snowman get's owned....frosty really knows a ton about snowmaking....ahahahahahahahah


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## Vortex (Oct 23, 2007)

Russ (SR board) who has a history of weather forecasting at the River is saying don't get to excited yet. He has been saying around turkey day all fall.   I have hope still.


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## ALLSKIING (Oct 23, 2007)

Bob R said:


> Russ (SR board) who has a history of weather forecasting at the River is saying don't get to excited yet. He has been saying around turkey day all fall.   I have hope still.


Sounds like your ready to put that new condo to good use other then hiking.


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## Zand (Oct 23, 2007)

The 1st 2 weeks of November are definitely looking colder than normal. Should see highs in the mid 40s and lows in the mid 20s in southern VT as early as Halloween and probably even colder than that in Maine. With that, the places with courage and killer snowmaking should at least get a run or two for Veterans Day.

Still can't believe how warm this October has been. ORH recorded a CDD today... absolutely unheard of this time of the season... they're usually rare enough in September. Current temp here is 68 at 9:30... more like July.


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

Greg said:


> Yes.
> 
> *Yesterday:*
> 
> ...



Check your geography Greg. I'm talking about the River now, and the Loaf before. Where the River has 3 times more firepower and 1/3 the distance to cover it's an entirely different situation for a projected opening day. I was also talking about a weather.com forecast last week and an accuweather forecast at a different place now. Weather.com is still saying there won't even be a skim of ice on a puddle at the Loaf beyond Nov 1, and absolutely no chance of snowmaking. I still say the Loaf will be lucky to have 1 trail off the superquad by Nov 17, and if Accuweather is right, the River may be able to open something as early as next weekend. We're back to media soundbite crap here. Saying I said one thing about one place, when actually I was talking about someplace completely different.


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## snowman (Oct 23, 2007)

I was just looking at the West Dover forecast for the first time. There's no snowmaking go date in that forecast either, right thru Nov 6. I wonder how the River lucked out with the pocket of temps they seem to have forecasted for them?


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 24, 2007)

NOAA point forecasts at 1800ft on Mt Snow and 1647ft at SR show similar cold temps overnight in the mid 20's starting Monday night(10/5)


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

but mid 20s overnight temps aren't cold enough for snowmaking according to Snowman..lol


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> but mid 20s overnight temps aren't cold enough for snowmaking according to Snowman..lol



Exactly. I wouldn't waste 1 KW on temps of 25F at this time of year. It would take you 15 + days of 25F nighttime lows to make the same amount of snow that you can make in 1  night with a low of 15. Energy actually costs money now. Nobody is going to dick around with marginal or worse temps on unfrozen ground unless they've got the worlds largest ego (and even then the results are going to bruise it) and absolutely no sense of fiscal and environmental responsibility.


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

I know it's Accuweather, but this long range starting Monday the 29th looks pretty promising for snowmaking at the 'Bush.



			
				Accuweather said:
			
		

> Monday, Oct 29
> Low: 28 °F
> High: 47 °F
> 
> ...


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Exactly. I wouldn't waste 1 KW on temps of 25F at this time of year. It would take you 15 + days of 25F nighttime lows to make the same amount of snow that you can make in 1  night with a low of 15. Energy actually costs money now. Nobody is going to dick around with marginal or worse temps on unfrozen ground unless they've got the worlds largest ego (and even then the results are going to bruise it) and absolutely no sense of fiscal and environmental responsibility.



Yep, snowman's right on this one.  And for those of you who need numbers to prove it, consider this:

Let's look at two guns... a low-e a/w gun, and a standard a/w gun.

Ratnik Skygiant II+II (most productive low-e gun on the market):

At 20-26 °F & 600psi, you get 36gpm output.
At 12-18 °F & 600psi, you get 88gpm.
Drop another 10°, and you get 136gpm without any compressed air.

Ratnik Snowgiant II+II (high production standard a/w gun):

There's not a specific temp table like the one above, but the following is pretty accurate:

Marginal temps (the 20-26 °F range) & 600psi, you get 69gpm with air compressors absolutely cranking.
In more ideal temps (the teens range) & 600psi, you get around 150gpm.
In optimum temps (single digits) & 600psi, you get up to 250gpm without any compressed air.


Of course, manufacturer stats don't necessarily line up with real-world performance.  But you get the general idea.  10° can make a *HUGE* difference in production and efficiency of snowmaking.  Unless you have a set deadline that you MUST meet, making early season snow with mid-20s temps & New England humidity onto unfrozen ground is like blowing 100 dollar bills out your snowguns.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Let's look at two guns... a low-e a/w gun, and a standard a/w gun.
> 
> Ratnik Skygiant II+II (most productive low-e gun on the market):
> 
> ...



What that chart also doesn't tell you is that at the 26F you're getting total slop out your gun, pretty much all of which is going to vanish the next day if it's 45F out and the ground is still unfrozen, leaving you with a muddy mess to work in the next night that's even harder on production that unfrozen ground. You guys look like you might be good to go for 12 hour shifts Nov 1 or 2 eh? You could maybe blow right thru the day the third or 4th on if it's sunny out ...


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> What that chart also doesn't tell you is that at the 26F you're getting total slop out your gun, pretty much all of which is going to vanish the next day if it's 45F out and the ground is still unfrozen, leaving you with a muddy mess to work in the next night that's even harder on production that unfrozen ground. You guys look like you might be good to go for 12 hour shifts Nov 1 or 2 eh? You could maybe blow right thru the day the third or 4th on if it's sunny out ...



Exactly.  Even if the mess that came out of that gun stuck around long enough to get the mountain open, you would _not_ want to ski on it!

Yeah... temps are looking good for the 'Bush.  Give the ground a couple of those 20° nights to freeze up a little, and then start blowing some snow.  If even 2 or 3 of those nights are medium to low humidity, some real good early snow could be made.


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## WJenness (Oct 24, 2007)

Zand said:


> <snip> ORH recorded a CDD today...</snip>



I'm new around here... CDD?

-w


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## bobbutts (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Exactly. I wouldn't waste 1 KW on temps of 25F at this time of year. It would take you *15 + days* of 25F nighttime lows to make the same amount of snow that you can make in 1  night with a low of 15. Energy actually costs money now. *Nobody*  is going to dick around with marginal or worse temps on unfrozen ground unless they've got the *worlds largest ego* (and even then the results are going to bruise it) and *absolutely no sense of fiscal and environmental responsibility.*



Everything (*bold*) is an exaggeration with you.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Check your geography Greg. I'm talking about the River now, and the Loaf before...blah blah blah...Saying I said one thing about one place, when actually I was talking about someplace completely different.



They are a whopping 50 linear miles apart. So I guess you must feel that if Sunday River fires up, Sugarloaf will just sit idly by?


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

Loon has statred they will start Nov 1.
http://www.loonmtn.com/winter/

They tend to make a lot and let if set almost snow farm if they can. A few times(not the last two years) they had enough snow to open but waited to open.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I was just looking at the West Dover forecast for the first time. There's no snowmaking go date in that forecast either, right thru Nov 6.



It's an in-town forecast. Temps will likely be lower (barring an inversion) up at elevation.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I was pretty impressed with all those new fan snowguns Attitash now has lining up the lower trails. If they are so inclined opening a trail top to bottom should be alot easier for them than at alot of other resorts.



Check out this *video*. Attitash has top to bottom fan guns on Illusion over at Bear Peak. If this *forecast* hold true, we may very well see Attitash emerge as the first with a T2B run. Maybe as soon as next weekend.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> They are a whopping 50 linear miles apart. So I guess you must feel that if Sunday River fires up, Sugarloaf will just sit idly by?



According to the Accuweather forecasts, yes. Like I already said, it's bizarre there's such a difference when one would think the loaf would have the advantage. The loaf has no choice but to watch, they simply don't have the temps if the forecast is correct.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

bobbutts said:


> Everything (*bold*) is an exaggeration with you.



No.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> According to the Accuweather forecasts, yes. Like I already said, it's bizarre there's such a difference when one would think the loaf would have the advantage. The loaf has no choice but to watch, they simply don't have the temps if the forecast is correct.



I guess I should say the River HAD the temps, now they both do. The magic of 15 day forecasts. The River has the advantage now of a couple of premium cold nights, while at the loaf they have the daytime temps to allow them to blow right thru a few days if they want. By blowing thru, they won't make very much extra snow during the day, but by keeping the system running they can take better advantage of the night time cold temps. They might both start as early as Oct 30th now too, as the temps got a lot better for that day, although the ground won't have a really good freeze into it. Normally, it would be best to wait a day or 2 longer, however, instead of this being an extended cold snap, it's looking more like a 5-7 day window now. It's a coin flip now as to if you start on the 30th or wait until the 1st. If the 15 day ends up looking really warm from the 7th out, they might not even bother at all. My money is on SR blowing the heck out of one trail as early as possible now to kick things off. They might not bother with the loaf at all if the long term is bad on the 30th.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> According to the Accuweather forecasts, yes. Like I already said, it's bizarre there's such a difference when one would think the loaf would have the advantage. The loaf has no choice but to watch, they simply don't have the temps if the forecast is correct.



Well, I'd like to remind you on a few things:


Accuweather, historically, has not been the most accurate forecast.
15 Day forecasts of any kind are sort of just speculation anyway. Unless of course it's a good forecast like the ones we have here which is why I started this thread. 
The Accuweather forecast I started this post with is for Kingfield, not Sugarloaf itself. It can be safely assumed that temps will be lower at elevation given there is no inversion.
If 8 consecutive nights of lows in the teens to low 20's (in Kingfield) are not enough to blow enough snow to get open, I don't know what is.



snowman said:


> I guess I should say the River HAD the temps, now they both do. The magic of 15 day forecasts. The River has the advantage now of a couple of premium cold nights, while at the loaf they have the daytime temps to allow them to blow right thru a few days if they want. By blowing thru, they won't make very much extra snow during the day, but by keeping the system running they can take better advantage of the night time cold temps. They might both start as early as Oct 30th now too, as the temps got a lot better for that day, although the ground won't have a really good freeze into it. Normally, it would be best to wait a day or 2 longer, however, instead of this being an extended cold snap, it's looking more like a 5-7 day window now. It's a coin flip now as to if you start on the 30th or wait until the 1st. If the 15 day ends up looking really warm from the 7th out, they might not even bother at all. My money is on SR blowing the heck out of one trail as early as possible now to kick things off. They might not bother with the loaf at all if the long term is bad on the 30th.



One key thing you're missing is that the new ownership wants to make some news, especially to validate the Maine Pass. My money would be on Sugarloaf for an opening maybe next Friday or Saturday if the current forecast holds. For the weekend anyway.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Well, I'd like to remind you on a few things:
> 
> 
> Accuweather, historically, has not been the most accurate forecast.
> ...



Well, it was you who held Accuweather up like the holy grail over the weather.com forecast. Do they not have a mountain specific forecast for the Loaf like weather.com? There is no way in hell the Loaf is opening next weekend unless they do something short off Timberline or cover Boardwalk. That is no where near enough time to cover something off the Superquad. It will take them the entire "window" to cover something off the Superquad, and even then it will be thin and not last if it's going to be warm after the window. The river is where they can do something usefull. They can cover one or 2 trails deep to last. If the 15 day is really good on the 30th though, they'll both go to work.


----------



## Edd (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Check out this *video*. Attitash has top to bottom fan guns on Illusion over at Bear Peak. If this *forecast* hold true, we may very well see Attitash emerge as the first with a T2B run. Maybe as soon as next weekend.



That would be a stunner.  I've been so unimpressed with their snowmaking compared with other resorts, last year I said I was done with them.  It would figure now that I don't have a pass there the place would come alive.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Well, it was you who held Accuweather up like the holy grail over the weather.com forecast. Do they not have a mountain specific forecast for the Loaf like weather.com? There is no way in hell the Loaf is opening next weekend unless they do something short off Timberline or cover Boardwalk. That is no where near enough time to cover something off the Superquad. It will take them the entire "window" to cover something off the Superquad, and even then it will be thin and not last if it's going to be warm after the window. The river is where they can do something usefull. They can cover one or 2 trails deep to last. If the 15 day is really good on the 30th though, they'll both go to work.



Wow. :blink: Here we go again. :roll: Where do you come up with this stuff? And you wonder why everybody questions your credibility? First of all, I *never *"held Accuweather up like the holy grail over the weather.com forecast." I challenge you to find a post where I did that. What I said was I don't put a lot of credence in *any* forecast beyond 3-5 days. I only linked to the Accuweather forecasts in this thread to give us something exciting to discuss, and I prefaced the fact that this is all just speculation. What bothers me about your posts is you make them with this annoying absolute tone as if everything you post is fact.

Secondly, the Loaf can certainly open the terrain off the Superquad given the current forecast. You, yourself said they may have a few days to blow around the clock. If they can get started Sunday night and have 3 days to blow around the clock midweek, a Friday or Saturday opening is totally possible.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Wow. :blink: Here we go again. :roll: Where do you come up with this stuff? And you wonder why everybody questions your credibility? First of all, I *never *"held Accuweather up like the holy grail over the weather.com forecast." I challenge you to find a post where I did that. What I said was I don't put a lot of credence in *any* forecast beyond 3-5 days. I only linked to the Accuweather forecasts in this thread to give us something exciting to discuss, and I prefaced the fact that this is all just speculation. What bothers me about your posts is you make them with this annoying absolute tone as if everything you post is fact.
> 
> Secondly, the Loaf can certainly open the terrain off the Superquad given the current forecast. You, yourself said they may have a few days to blow around the clock. If they can get started Sunday night and have 3 days to blow around the clock midweek, a Friday or Saturday opening is totally possible.







> Weather.com is providing elevation forecasts now? Ha ha ha.  Newsflash, snowman: a weather.com forecast "for Sugarloaf" IS Kingfield.



The point of them blowing around the clock is simply to keep the system primed so that start up doesn't take as long the next night. During the day they would have to retreat to 5-10 old style guns near the peak to blow a very small amount of snow. It's not really for daytime production. They don't have daytime temps to make meaningfull amounts of snow. I think i've heard it takes 60 good hours to get something off the Superquad covered. That's about all they're going to get looking at this forecast, and if it's going to get warm thereafter, they could lose it before anyone even gets to ski it because it would also be thin.


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

Way too many things come into play that I  don't have the facts to make a good guess.

  Suglarloaf might be a better choice cause crowds would be lower on limited terrain. If temps are  equal Sr would open faster and be a better place to make money. 

The problem is at least with me is I don't know what factors are involved with making a descion. 

 Both look like the temps would allow snow to be made maybe even enough for early openings.

 My guess is it would happen mid week not on a weekend unless is was like veterans day weekend when more lodging packages could be sold.  I would not be surpised to see the North east pass explained on the same day one place opens to increase marketing value. 

 I beilieve we will get an early opening, party casue they seem to care about the die hards, but more for marketing value( look what our pass got you... and those who have not bought one might be more inclinded to do so.)

 The temps are not the only deciding factor.

If it was an oct opening like this weekend I would have said the Loaf just cause of the evevation temp.

 My bet as it was from the beginning is SR will open 1st.  Its a race with money spent being taken into account.


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> > Weather.com is providing elevation forecasts now? Ha ha ha. Newsflash, snowman: a weather.com forecast "for Sugarloaf" IS Kingfield.



Nice try. This is your "proof" that I "hold Accuweather up like the holy grail over the weather.com forecast?" Weak.



snowman said:


> The point of them blowing around the clock is simply to keep the system primed so that start up doesn't take as long the next night. During the day they would have to retreat to 5-10 old style guns near the peak to blow a very small amount of snow. It's not really for daytime production. They don't have daytime temps to make meaningfull amounts of snow. I think i've heard it takes 60 good hours to get something off the Superquad covered. That's about all they're going to get looking at this forecast, and if it's going to get warm thereafter, they could lose it before anyone even gets to ski it because it would also be thin.



Well, they made a stab at it last year in early November. And again, Boyne would love nothing more than to open early so my guess is they go for it again.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Nice try. This is your "proof" that I "hold Accuweather up like the holy grail over the weather.com forecast?" Weak.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they made a stab at it last year in early November. And again, Boyne would love nothing more than to open early so my guess is they go for it again.



Well, when you diss weather.com forecasts and post accuweathers...what else is one to think? 

Yes, they did take a stab at it last year and lost the whole thing. I've seen them do this repeatedly. Someone defined insanity here a week or 2 ago....


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Bob R said:


> Way too many things come into play that I  don't have the facts to make a good guess.
> 
> Suglarloaf might be a better choice cause crowds would be lower on limited terrain. If temps are  equal Sr would open faster and be a better place to make money.
> 
> ...



I agree with a lot of this, Bob. Aligning a Boyne mountain opening with the New England pass on sale announcement is an interesting thought.


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> That is no where near enough time to cover something off the Superquad.





snowman said:


> I think i've heard it takes 60 good hours to get something off the Superquad covered. That's about all they're going to get looking at this forecast...



So..? Which is it? :dunce:


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## bobbutts (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> *No.*


:argue:

You are just the most awful internet personality I've come across in awhile.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> So..? Which is it? :dunce:




There are not 60 good hours between now and next Friday. A good hour is anything sub 22 with RH of 70 or less or Sub 20 with RH of 90 or less. If they're lucky, they might have 30 good hours between now and then.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> There are not 60 good hours between now and next Friday. A good hour is anything sub 22 with RH of 70 or less or Sub 20 with RH of 90 or less. If they're lucky, they might have 30 good hours between now and then.



Like I said before; back pedaling:


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

I think it was Spinmaster  (K) from K  last year that said 60 hours of snowmaking needed to get open in marginal conditions. 36 to 48 round the clock in good snow making conditions. Don't have the post in front of me.    I think we all think we know more than we do.:razz:  When one place is open and i'm making turns I'lll know who was right and  who was wrong and maybe why.... when the facts come out.:idea:  JimG loves this talk I can hear him know.  :beer:


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Like I said before; back pedaling:



Your background is law isn't it? You're going to be one of these lawyers that comes out thinking he's got something, makes a big production of it, and it ends up with it thrown back in his face with a 10 word statement... making him simply look dumb for not understanding what everyone else already understood in the first place. I actually made "that guy" cry in court when he lost to me representing myself. He gave up law shortly after that and is now our minister of defense. Yikes!


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Your background is law isn't it? You're going to be one of these lawyers that comes out thinking he's got something, makes a big production of it, and it ends up with it thrown back in his face with a 10 word statement... making him simply look dumb for not understanding what everyone else already understood in the first place. I actually made "that guy" cry in court when he lost to me representing myself. He gave up law shortly after that and is now our minister of defense. Yikes!



Law? No. What makes you think that?

Yeah. You really showed me here... :roll:


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Bob R said:


> I think it was Spinmaster  (K) from K  last year that said 60 hours of snowmaking needed to get open in marginal conditions. 36 to 48 round the clock in good snow making conditions. Don't have the post in front of me.    I think we all think we know more than we do.:razz:  When one place is open and i'm making turns I'lll know who was right and  who was wrong and maybe why.... when the facts come out.:idea:  JimG loves this talk I can hear him know.  :beer:



I'll get this out of the way now. All my statements in this post have been in reference to SR and the Loaf. When/if someone else scoops them, I don't want to hear any ha ha ha...snowman you were wrong crap, because I'm not speaking about anywhere else. Thanks to Greg, the magical lawyer, I have to make these legal style disclosures in advance now and speak in dumbese so nothing I say can be twisted....


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Thanks to Greg, the magical lawyer, I have to make these legal style disclosures in advance now and speak in dumbese so nothing I say can be twisted....



Again, not a lawyer. Not sure where you're getting that from. You're simply wrong.........again.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Bob R said:


> I think it was Spinmaster  (K) from K  last year that said 60 hours of snowmaking needed to get open in marginal conditions. 36 to 48 round the clock in good snow making conditions. Don't have the post in front of me.    I think we all think we know more than we do.:razz:  When one place is open and i'm making turns I'lll know who was right and  who was wrong and maybe why.... when the facts come out.:idea:  JimG loves this talk I can hear him know.  :beer:



K also has a lot more power than the Loaf, and not nearly as far to cover. As I said, I think the loaf needs 60 GOOD hours (sub 20 RH weighted). Marginal hours? Jeeze, they might never get open.. as it would be melting on one end as fast as they're blowing it on the other.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Again, not a lawyer. Not sure where you're getting that from. You're simply wrong.........again.



What do you do? I thought you stated somewhere here a while ago that you were in law school.


----------



## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

I was only briging in what a rep stated in a public forum in relation to how long it takes to open.

 I think it will be a boyne resort also that will open 1st.. I could see how I confused it a bit with bringing in a k statement, not my intention..  (sorry)  I get your point


I think attitash and Mt snow will follow. If elevation was not a factor. I think it would be a tighter race. I know I could be wrong..


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> What do you do? I thought you stated somewhere here a while ago that you were in law school.



IT. You're thinking thetrailboss probably.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Bob R said:


> I was only briging in what a rep stated in a public forum in relation to how long it takes to open.
> 
> I think it will be a boyne resort also that will open 1st.. I could see how I confused it a bit with bringing in a k statement, not my intention..  (sorry)  I get your point
> 
> ...



No no, I wasn't countering your point. It was a good point. I think you likely recall the numbers for K correctly. I was simply pointing out how that relates to the Loaf. It actually makes it easier for one to understand that the superquad can not be covered in 3 or 4 so-so nights. Doesn't anyone remember the events of years past? It takes a LONG time to cover off the Superquad.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> IT. You're thinking thetrailboss probably.



OK, sorry. You are correct there, that IS who I was thinking of. You confused me in to thinking it HAD to be you with your soundbyte legal style arguments designed only to decieve. You redheads all look the same to me :razz:


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

One point not taken into account is the new pumps at the loaf. One we don't know how much of a difference they will make and if the intention is to show them off.  Still going with the river here.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> No no, I wasn't countering your point. It was a good point. I think you likely recall the numbers for K correctly. I was simply pointing out how that relates to the Loaf. It actually makes it easier for one to understand that the superquad can not be covered in 3 or 4 so-so nights. Doesn't anyone remember the events of years past? It takes a LONG time to cover off the Superquad.



They can do it in 3 round the clock days. I'm not sure they will have that, but with some additional cold nights in there, I still think that a Friday or weekend opening is possible. Attitash probably has the best shot out of all of them given this window and their new fan guns though. Tough call. Gonna be an interesting couple of weeks in any case.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Bob R said:


> I think attitash and Mt snow will follow. If elevation was not a factor. I think it would be a tighter race. I know I could be wrong..



You might be right...on the Attitash part atleast anyway. It will be interesting to see what the latest in fangun technology can do in so so temps. I haven't really studied them in depth in marginal conditions. I know they do wonders with them down in NC etc in marginal conditions. That's why all my statements have revolved arounf the loaf and the river....I know the locations, I know what they have, and I know exactly what they are capable of.


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

SR can down load and just use Locke mtn.
Rumors I heard were T2 to start.  No need to have melting snow issues at the base.  Someone earned dollars by thinking last year.

All I care is we have two new players pushing each other. If one place beats the other.... I still end up making early turns.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Bob R said:


> One point not taken into account is the new pumps at the loaf. One we don't know how much of a difference they will make and if the intention is to show them off.  Still going with the river here.



The main point of the booster project was to boost water PSI on the upper mountain, which is mostly to increase production capability with the Low E guns in winter temps. It will help the regular guns a bit in so-so conditions, but not dramatically.


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2007)

bobbutts said:


> :argue:
> 
> You are just the most awful internet personality I've come across in awhile.



Q4T

He's like Rush Limbaugh's kid Canadian brother.  Come to think of it, that's probably why people (myself at times included) feel compelled to argue with him.  Just like Rush, he's a braggart and his opinions are so over the top, people can't help themselves from trying to put him down.  Truly mind boggling stuff - legendary


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> You might be right...on the Attitash part atleast anyway. It will be interesting to see what the latest in fangun technology can do in so so temps. I haven't really studied them in depth in marginal conditions. I know they do wonders with them down in NC etc in marginal conditions.



My only concern about Attitash is the lack of elevation, but they have the latitude over Mount Snow and their forecast looks good. Tim Boyd suggest we should keep an eye on Illusion which is T2B fans. First to open with T2B terrain could be a great way to start the Peak Resorts season. It's nice to have some new players in the game this year.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> They can do it in 3 round the clock days. I'm not sure they will have that, but with some additional cold nights in there, I still think that a Friday or weekend opening is possible. Attitash probably has the best shot out of all of them given this window and their new fan guns though. Tough call. Gonna be an interesting couple of weeks in any case.



No, they won't, I'm afriad, they're not real around the clock days. The only reason they will have to keep the system running thru the day is to not have to bother rolling thru the shut down and start up procedures. It will likely be a coin toss which to do. In the past, they've usually choosen to leave a few guns bleading air and water at the top whenever possible, but it doesn't add anything to the production total...they're pumping just a few gallons a minute each with a pile of air to keep it from raining out.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> My only concern about Attitash is the lack of elevation, but they have the latitude over Mount Snow and their forecast looks good. Tim Boyd suggest we should keep an eye on Illusion which is T2B fans. First to open with T2B terrain could be a great way to start the Peak Resorts season. It's nice to have some new players in the game this year.



Well, I would have thought so too, but, the River has/had a better forecast than the Loaf, and Attitash is more on a level with the River than the loaf. Time to check Bartlett NH Accuweather....


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Sigh, Weather.com still says it's not even going to freeze at Attitash, The Loaf, or The River right thru Nov 2. :-( How can the 2 forecasts be so far apart????


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> No, they won't, I'm afriad, they're not real around the clock days. The only reason they will have to keep the system running thru the day is to not have to bother rolling thru the shut down and start up procedures. It will likely be a coin toss which to do. In the past, they've usually choosen to leave a few guns bleading air and water at the top whenever possible, but it doesn't add anything to the production total...they're pumping just a few gallons a minute each with a pile of air to keep it from raining out.



Okay. You obviously are the expert here with your whopping four years of industry experience. I'm just speaking from the perspective of observer with no snowmaking credentials to back anything up so my opinions obviously hold very little value.

Anyway, they made a run at it in early November last year which is what I'm basing my prediction on; that, and this year, more than any other, there's a race to be first to open. Whether or not it all washes away and if it's worth it at any level is another discussion.


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

Russ again for the river has been saying not so fast.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Sigh, Weather.com still says it's not even going to freeze at Attitash, The Loaf, or The River right thru Nov 2. :-( How can the 2 forecasts be so far apart????



Average them and then throw both away... 

The NWS is calling for lows in the 20's for Bartlett starting on Sunday night. The 7-Day NWS is about as far out as I would put any real faith in. I still like what Accuweather is saying better though...


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## Highway Star (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> K also has a lot more power than the Loaf, and not nearly as far to cover. As I said, I think the loaf needs 60 GOOD hours (sub 20 RH weighted). Marginal hours? Jeeze, they might never get open.. as it would be melting on one end as fast as they're blowing it on the other.



Wow...wrong again.  How could one man know so little about so much?


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## drjeff (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Sigh, Weather.com still says it's not even going to freeze at Attitash, The Loaf, or The River right thru Nov 2. :-( How can the 2 forecasts be so far apart????



The other "bad" thing with all these forcasts and retrospectively looking back at last year, is that until the cold air stright off the North Pole showed up in Mid January, most of the "cold snaps" we had took longer for the cold air to move into the Northeast than originally forcasted and also when it got here it wasn't as cold as the longer range models had suggested.


I'm as eager as anyone to hit the hill,  but until mother nature cooperates I think I'll just make the best of the temps and watch some football, play a few more rounds of golf and get a solid start on the x-mas shopping so I won't have to eliminate any hill time closer to x-mas.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

> http://www.accuweather.com/forecast...ox&traveler=0&zipChg=1&zipcode=03812&metric=0



Bartlett has pretty much the same Accuweather forecast as Bethel. If that comes true, we might get to see fan guns vs. a/w in real time. I think if the River just covers something off Barker, they have less distance to cover than Attitash? It's been a while since I've been at Attitash...can we get an expert comparison of trail distance and elevation? T2 vs Illusion? Now, you guys are considering the accuweathers are town forecasts, and dropping 5 degrees for the mountain. The Weather.com forecasts are supposed to be site specific forecasts. If we take all of that into account, there seems to be a 20 degree despairity between Accuwether and Weather.com. What the?!?!


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Average them and then throw both away...
> 
> The NWS is calling for lows in the 20's for Bartlett starting on Sunday night. The 7-Day NWS is about as far out as I would put any real faith in. I still like what Accuweather is saying better though...



I don't want to even average them...if I do, it's back to nothing happening again. Accuweather has to pretty much come true precisely for anything exciting to happen. :-(


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> can we get an expert comparison of trail distance and elevation? T2 vs Illusion?



I'm certainly no expert and I've never skied either mountain, but based on Google Earth, Illusion is about 1 mile long with a summit and base elevation of ~2,080' and 680' respectively. Not sure where SR usually goes after T2. Maybe Cascades? In any event it will likely also end up being about 1 mile with a summit/base of ~2,560'/1,150'. Two pretty comparable runs it appears.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm certainly no expert and I've never skied either mountain, but based on Google Earth, Illusion is about 1 mile long with a summit and base elevation of ~2,080' and 680' respectively. Not sure where SR usually goes after T2. Maybe Cascades? In any event it will likely also end up being about 1 mile with a summit/base of ~2,560'/1,150'. Two pretty comparable runs it appears.


SR could go to Cascades, Sunday Punch, or just stop at the mid station on the Locke triple and only offer T2 with downloading...they've done all three variations in the past...sometimes its the Barker quad that'll open first, other times T2 mid station and up.  I'd say its all in the air now with new owners.


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## Upgrayedd (Oct 24, 2007)

Hey you guys are from New England, you should know that the rule is 2 day forecasts should be considered, 4 day should be acknowledged, and anything else is just wild speculation! Unless its a really really short term forecast I\'d say forget it  

THINK SNOW!


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Upgrayedd said:


> Hey you guys are from New England, you should know that the rule is 2 day forecasts should be considered, 4 day should be acknowledged, and anything else is just wild speculation! Unless its a really really short term forecast I\'d say forget it
> 
> THINK SNOW!



No......only long term forecasts that are not favorable should be ignored...


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

Wow has this thread progressed while I was at work...I need to grab a beer when I get home and catch up on this...wowser...AZ rules and frosty still doesn't know about snowmaking..lol


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> SR could go to Cascades, Sunday Punch, or just stop at the mid station on the Locke triple and only offer T2 with downloading...they've done all three variations in the past...sometimes its the Barker quad that'll open first, other times T2 mid station and up.  I'd say its all in the air now with new owners.



Cool. I didn't know there was a mid-station. Downloading capabilities always help. In a sense, both could win. Boyne with first to open at SR, and Peak with first top-to-bottom at Attitash!


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## Vortex (Oct 24, 2007)

Nothing on Barker, it will be Locke.  Then you don't have to go to the base.  Nothing matters until the guns are on and then will get a better idea.

edit

I see Eastcoastpowderhound came to the rescue.I have work to do.


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 24, 2007)

This has been pretty retentless...even got a quick infusion of a couple of posts from kzoners...must be a slow day over there....:lol: We are  gonna pay for this crazy indian summer weather we just had and it's gonna be in payments of cold and snow....yea baby!  Carry on......


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> What bothers me about your posts is you make them with this annoying absolute tone as if everything you post is fact.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> :beer:


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> What do you do? I thought you stated somewhere here a while ago that you were in law school.



He Did??????:idea:


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 24, 2007)

> Originally Posted by snowman
> What do you do? I thought you stated somewhere here a while ago that you were in law school.



I knew it! I suspected Greg was a lawyer and his email asking a ski hill to make their moguls to his personal specifications confirms it. I bet his law clerks are the ones running AZ. Trailboss is the one who built that really nice deck on that really nice house in CT and has 2 sweet kids. Just when think you know your forum's site administrator.....the sky is falling, the sky is falling! I would love to hear Marc's take on this new revelation.


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## Highway Star (Oct 24, 2007)

I have to sit back and laugh about all this talk about needing 60 hour snowmaking window to get open.  That's a crock.  Snowman has NOT been doing his homework.  That only applies to Killington's K-1/Glades/Snowdon opening, where they typically have to produce 100-150 acre feet of snow, down to ~2,500 ft at the bottom of the Snowdon Quad.  It takes them !60 hours, because while they can pump enough water to do it in much less time, they run out of air capacity to run the guns in marginal temps (28F wet bulb).  Believe me, when resorts are under the gun to be open for Thankgiving weekend, they will ceratinly blow in those temps, just like Killington did last year.

Anyway, nobody should take that as being an "early opening stragegy"......anything requiring a 60 hour window sure as hell isn't.  That's their strategy because they simply want to open all that terrain, so they can get a massive number of skier visits for early season skiing.  It would be much easier if they simply installed and upper mountain lift, or made snow on the Superstar trail pod instaid.

Killington's old strategy with the double chair and midstation was MUCH more agressive.  They only had to make snow on one trail, 2,000 ft long, and it was above 3,500 feet.  And it wasn't much snow - about 1-2 feet of cover, if that.  That's about 5-10 acre feet of snow.  They could pound that out in around 12 hours - one solid night or two.  That's how they could get open as early as September 30th.

Again, this 60 hours BS certainly does not apply to Sugarloaf, with any kind of opening senario.  I was at the Sugarloaf opening last year - they had Tote road open off the Superquad.  It's around 9,000 ft long.  They probably made around 35-50 acre ft of snow on it.  I found an older pump capacity figure of 4,800 gallons per minute for them - if you assume that, it would take around 30 hours to pump enough water for 50 acre feet.  I got the overall impression that they had blown snow for a couple days before they opened up.  There were low e-guns in use, it was fairly cold out.

Futhermore, there's nothing saying they can't open on the spillway doubles or the Timberline quad, with downloading.  Both are at signifigantly higher elevation, around 3k ft to start, and around 4,000 ft long.  It should be possible to open either of those with around 20-30 acre feet of snow.  They should be able to do that in about 24 hours........so, two solid nights of reasonable mid-20s weather, and they'll probably open up..................................


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm certainly no expert and I've never skied either mountain, but based on Google Earth, Illusion is about 1 mile long with a summit and base elevation of ~2,080' and 680' respectively. Not sure where SR usually goes after T2. Maybe Cascades? In any event it will likely also end up being about 1 mile with a summit/base of ~2,560'/1,150'. Two pretty comparable runs it appears.



I've skied both, but it's been quite a while since I was at Attitash. Yes, Sunday River has a mid station on the Locke triple which they utilized that last season (or the season before, or both?) to get open faster. Bob R was saying the plan is to do T2 first, which I was thinking was one of the ones off the skiers left of the Sunday River express...but on checking the map it's on Locke. I typically don't pay a lot of attention to trail names when skiing. They probably do Locke first for the fact they can utilize the mid-station in desperation, the fact it uses a lot less power than the express, and historical reasons. They've covered Sunday Punch first in years gone by, but I can't recall what they've done in the last couple years. I think it will be a pretty good competition between those 2 to see who can cover top to bottom first. Same temps, similar trail specs, different technology. They both would have all the air they need. I think Attitash is probably more water limited than the River, but that won't play into it because they won't need maximum water pumping capability because of the temperature limitations. The winner might also not be the true winner in the end either. I've seen some pretty sketchy cover on opening day battles. What one company might determine to be a covered trail might not necessarily be what another will feel right about opening on.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I knew it! I suspected Greg was a lawyer and his email asking a ski hill to make their moguls to his personal specifications confirms it. I bet his law clerks are the ones running AZ. Trailboss is the one who built that really nice deck on that really nice house in CT and has 2 sweet kids. Just when think you know your forum's site administrator.....the sky is falling, the sky is falling! I would love to hear Marc's take on this new revelation.



I'm that transparent, am I? :lol:


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> Again, this 60 hours BS certainly does not apply to Sugarloaf, with any kind of opening senario.  I was at the Sugarloaf opening last year - they had Tote road open off the Superquad.  It's around 9,000 ft long.  They probably made around 35-50 acre ft of snow on it.  I found an older pump capacity figure of 4,800 gallons per minute for them - if you assume that, it would take around 30 hours to pump enough water for 50 acre feet.  I got the overall impression that they had blown snow for a couple days before they opened up.  There were low e-guns in use, it was fairly cold out.



I'm not arguing your analysis, but remember that there's no way they'd be running at full water capacity on their one run (for early opening) in marginal conditions like we seem to be looking at this year.  It might not take them 60 hours, but I would lean more toward a 40-45 hour scenario.  However, I'm not that familiar with their snowmaking system, so I won't make any firm judgments or assessments without further data.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I'm not arguing your analysis, but remember that there's no way they'd be running at full water capacity on their one run....



I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap. Last year it actually took about a month of snowmaking (if you're going by Calander days and not hours online) to get open. Actual snowmaking hours online prior to opening last year were probably in the neighborhood of 150.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap.



Hey! You forgot to specifically include me in there. After all, you _really _showed me in this thread. To be honest, I was feeling a bit left out. I guess I'll just have to be content falling under the "et al" category...


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Hey! You forgot to specifically include me in there. After all, you _really _showed me in this thread. To be honest, I was feeling a bit left out. I guess I'll just have to be content falling under the "et al" category...



You haven't proven yourself to be a complete and utter moron....unlike the aforementioned. That is why I'm still responding to you, however, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause.....


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## millerm277 (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap. Last year it actually took about a month of snowmaking (if you're going by Calander days and not hours online) to get open.



I'm not following your logic here. I didn't follow most of the other areas last year, so I won't comment on their opening times. However, I know Killington blew a bunch of snow at the beginning of November, but it was almost completely melted by the time they actually got the cold weather that let them open, I wouldn't consider the early snowmaking to be part of how long it took to get them open.

Also, for much of this discussion, I don't think it matters much as to if you've laid your hands on a snowgun or not.



> Actual snowmaking hours online prior to opening last year were probably in the neighborhood of 150.



How exactly is that? Most of the areas opened in a very short window of cold weather.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> You haven't proven yourself to be a complete and utter moron....unlike the aforementioned. That is why I'm still responding to you, however, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause.....



Ooooh. Thanks for the compliment, and I'll try to be more careful then. I really wouldn't want to risk _you _ignoring me...

You know, snowman, you might actually know _some _stuff, but, your delivery really sucks. If you would only try to self analyze a bit and learn to be slightly humble, people might like you more. However, antagonistic posts like this one do not help _your _cause......


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

millerm277 said:


> I'm not following your logic here. I didn't follow most of the other areas last year, so I won't comment on their opening times. However, I know Killington blew a bunch of snow at the beginning of November, but it was almost completely melted by the time they actually got the cold weather that let them open, I wouldn't consider the early snowmaking to be part of how long it took to get them open.
> 
> Also, for much of this discussion, I don't think it matters much as to if you've laid your hands on a snowgun or not.
> 
> ...



The Loaf ground away with so-so temps for days last year only to lose it all and have to start again. That landed them up at well over 100 hours of up time in the snowmaking plants before they opened. The relevance is some fool was saying you could open Tote road with 30 hours of snowmaking. Yeah, maybe, if it's 0F out for 30 hours straight, and even that would be a stretch. I said it'll take them 60 hours of snowmaking with temps hovering around 20 (the BEST forecast right now), and even that is a conservative figure if you look to years past and the ways of the weather. Does that tie it all together for you?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> You haven't proven yourself to be a complete and utter moron....unlike the aforementioned. That is why I'm still responding to you, however, antagonistic posts like this one do not help your cause.....





Snowman personal attacks will not be tolerated..this is a warning...:dunce: I think you need a timeout


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## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Snowman personal attacks will not be tolerated..this is a warning...:dunce: I think you need a timeout




I would be very pleased if said timeout last several years.  He does nothing for this site.  I'm not saying I'm the dali lama of ski wisdom, but his conceited, ego driven arguing with everyone is getting OLD.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> I would be very pleased if said timeout last several years.  He does nothing for this site.  I'm not saying I'm the dali lama of ski wisdom, but his conceited, ego driven arguing with everyone is getting OLD.



times two..he goes in circles like Steve Urkel...


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Folks, this is just getting utterly ridiculous.  *Everyone* is being antagonizing, condescending, presumptuous, and arrogant.

Okay, so Snowman's posts come off a little overly assertive.  I don't agree with everything he's said either.  But good lord, guys... at least he does have some fundamental knowledge base and experience in the industry (more than most people on this forum).  It seems all you want to do is attack everything he says and find some way to throw it down his throat.  C'mon.  Aren't we a little old for that?  If you don't like him, pay him no heed and move on.  Simple solution. I agree that he could probably take a second to think before he posts some things, but I just don't see what you all think you're accomplishing here.

Just because you don't like someone's online persona... does that mean you should immediately dismiss everything he says?

All you're doing is adding fuel to the fire.  Let the dispute rest, and reengage in the topic at hand.  And if snowman decides to post something constructive related to the post, it is NOT necessary to pick it apart into a million pieces searching for some new way to flame him.

And snowman, for heaven's sake... quit calling people names.  You're not helping things by continuing to put others down with name-calling and condescension.  And if you're so sure that you're right about everything, follow the example of a wise man who--when once confronted--simply asked, "Why argue something about which I know I am right?"  And perhaps you could consider giving the ego a break and  accepting the possibility that maybe someone else _is_ in fact right once in a while?


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Ooooh. Thanks for the compliment, and I'll try to be more careful then. I really wouldn't want to risk _you _ignoring me...
> 
> You know, snowman, you might actually know _some _stuff, but, your delivery really sucks. If you would only try to self analyze a bit and learn to be slightly humble, people might like you more. However, antagonistic posts like this one do not help _your _cause......



I simply give what I get. I've already told you this once. If you want to talk in an interested manner about a subject I know more about than you, great, I'll talk to you about it all day long in a polite manner and explain it to the point that you'll know every bit as much as I do. I know nothing about IT and website building. I SUCK at it. I wish I knew a lot more. I actually need to know a lot more. If you want to teach me about that, I'll sit here and listen all day long and I'm damn sure not going to tell you that you're wrong. To that point, if you were talking about it in here ...say...hmmm...trying to explain HTML or something, and I butt in and respond with "You're a moron Greg, Frontpage is way better", would you get annoyed and begin to talk down to me at that point? Yes, most likely you would. My responses to each person are toned to match whatever they've sent in my direction.


----------



## ALLSKIING (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Folks, this is just getting utterly ridiculous.  *Everyone* is being antagonizing, condescending, presumptuous, and arrogant.
> 
> Okay, so Snowman's posts come off a little overly assertive.  I don't agree with everything he's said either.  But good lord, guys... at least he does have some fundamental knowledge base and experience in the industry (more than most people on this forum).  It seems all you want to do is attack everything he says and find some way to throw it down his throat.  C'mon.  Aren't we a little old for that?  If you don't like him, pay him no heed and move on.  Simple solution. I agree that he could probably take a second to think before he posts some things, but I just don't see what you all think you're accomplishing here.
> 
> ...



As soon as everybody gets out skiing the :argue: will stop.


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

ALLSKIING said:


> As soon as everybody gets out skiing the :argue: will stop.



Oh yeah, I forgot.  See... since I've already been out a few times................ :wink:


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Folks, this is just getting utterly ridiculous.  *Everyone* is being antagonizing, condescending, presumptuous, and arrogant.
> 
> Okay, so Snowman's posts come off a little overly assertive.  I don't agree with everything he's said either.  But good lord, guys... at least he does have some fundamental knowledge base and experience in the industry (more than most people on this forum).  It seems all you want to do is attack everything he says and find some way to throw it down his throat.  C'mon.  Aren't we a little old for that?  If you don't like him, pay him no heed and move on.  Simple solution. I agree that he could probably take a second to think before he posts some things, but I just don't see what you all think you're accomplishing here.
> 
> ...



Oh sure, BMM. :roll: Try to spoil our fun by jumping in here and being the voice of reason... 

I don't respond well to condescending personalities. As you pointed out, BMM, I tend to come right back with some patronizing of my own. But, unlike snowman, I don't do this with everyone. Check his previous posts. He even rubs bvibert the wrong way who is the gentlest of gentle giants. I, at least, _know _I'm being an asshole intentionally. snowman hasn't a clue that he does it. The fact is, when someone makes a post like *[POST="192979"]this[/POST]*, he's lost all credibility in my mind and if he chimes in with something I think is a weak argument, I'm going to call him on it.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Folks, this is just getting utterly ridiculous.  *Everyone* is being antagonizing, condescending, presumptuous, and arrogant.
> 
> Okay, so Snowman's posts come off a little overly assertive.  I don't agree with everything he's said either.  But good lord, guys... at least he does have some fundamental knowledge base and experience in the industry (more than most people on this forum).  It seems all you want to do is attack everything he says and find some way to throw it down his throat.  C'mon.  Aren't we a little old for that?  If you don't like him, pay him no heed and move on.  Simple solution. I agree that he could probably take a second to think before he posts some things, but I just don't see what you all think you're accomplishing here.
> 
> ...



That's even more concise than what I just said. I've had enough of it myself, and that's why I was pointing out I'm not responding to certain people's posts anymore. It was a bit immature I suppose, to name names, but, I was basically just warning you that their targeting looked to be switching to you simply because I'd stopped responding to them. I was merely attempting to save you the same greif.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> *I simply give what I get*. I've already told you this once. If you want to talk in an interested manner about a subject I know more about than you, great, I'll talk to you about it all day long in a polite manner and explain it to the point that you'll know every bit as much as I do. I know nothing about IT and website building. I SUCK at it. I wish I knew a lot more. I actually need to know a lot more. If you want to teach me about that, I'll sit here and listen all day long and I'm damn sure not going to tell you that you're wrong. To that point, if you were talking about it in here ...say...hmmm...trying to explain HTML or something, and I butt in and respond with "You're a moron Greg, Frontpage is way better", would you get annoyed and begin to talk down to me at that point? Yes, most likely you would. *My responses to each person are toned to match whatever they've sent in my direction.*



You truly are delusional. Almost to the point it's scary...


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## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

14 pages?


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> But, unlike snowman, I don't do this with everyone.



Incorrect. There are 3 or 4 people on here I converse at eye level with. It's my responses to antagonists and know-it-all's that you're referencing.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Incorrect. There are 3 or 4 people on here I converse at eye level with. It's my responses to antagonists and know-it-all's that you're referencing.



No...it's your responses to any opinion that is not in line with yours...


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Oh sure, BMM. :roll: Try to spoil our fun by jumping in here and being the voice of reason...
> 
> I don't respond well to condescending personalities. As you pointed out, BMM, I tend to come right back with some patronizing of my own. But, unlike snowman, I don't do this with everyone. Check his previous posts. He even rubs bvibert the wrong way who is the gentlest of gentle giants. I, at least, _know _I'm being an asshole intentionally. snowman hasn't a clue that he does it. The fact is, when someone makes a post like *[POST="192979"]this[/POST]*, he's lost all credibility in my mind and if he chimes in with something I think is a weak argument, I'm going to call him on it.



Ooops... sorry, Greg!  Didn't mean to be a party-pooper!

But in all seriousness, Greg, you might have better luck if you *set* the example instead of following others' poor examples.  You can be a strong admin without falling into patronization

Hey Snowman, first of all, I'm not going to attack you, because (at least in this thread), I understand where you're coming from.  It's tough to have in-depth discussions of advanced industry topics in a setting like this because everyone thinks they know everything, when in reality, most of us don't know nearly as much as we think (yes, you too).  But here's an idea for you... instead of reacting to the way people treat you, just treat them with the respect and courtesy that you'd like them to treat you with.  Maybe you'll regain some credibility, since you clearly have some amount of industry knowledge (whether others agree or not).  Just a thought.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> You truly are delusional. Almost to the point it's scary...



Alrighty then, fine, that's your opinion. It's my opinion that the opposite is true. Would you like me to stop replying to you? I'm not threatening, I'm asking. You've spent more time taking jabs at me than making a contribution on the actual topic. I'm sick of it. The only reason I care at all is I can tell you're intelligent, but your behaviour toward me is disappointing and bizarre.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> But in all seriousness, Greg, you might have better luck if you *set* the example instead of following others' poor examples.  You can be a strong admin without falling into patronization



You are totally right. And anyone that knows me either personally, or based on my posts on these forums for the past 6+ years knows that I try to remain pretty unbiased and civil. However, I've always said that I'm a member first, and an admin second so sometimes I fall into the trap of flaming like the rest of you mere mortals (). Seriously though, I'll back off despite the fact that I have trouble ignoring some of what snowman has posted in the past.



snowman said:


> Alrighty then, fine, that's your opinion. It's my opinion that the opposite is true. Would you like me to stop replying to you? I'm not threatening, I'm asking. You've spent more time taking jabs at me than making a contribution on the actual topic. I'm sick of it. The only reason I care at all is I can tell you're intelligent, but your behaviour toward me is disappointing and bizarre.



No, I would not like you to stop replying to me, nor anyone else here. I would simply ask that you try to respect others' opinions and not immediately discount them. Whether you believe it or not, you're *not *always right. Anyway, I appreciate the seemingly forthright tone of this post. Let's consider this a turning point and move forward from here.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> You truly are delusional. Almost to the point it's scary...



frightening even

Here's the deal snowman and I know you won't respond to me, but I firmly believe that if you took, Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson and Ingemar Steinmark and combined them into one person; that person would be more humble and modest than you are.  Go put on your designer jeans, pink polo and sport coat and take a walk down the road.......almost everyone here is tired of you. 


I'll sumise your life here

SNOWMAN: 

I'm right, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm rich, I'm smarter than all you idiots, I know more about snowmaking than the guy who invented the snow gun, in fact I taught him how to invent the snow gun, wanna know how to cheat the governent out of taxes?,  you are pathetic just like a woman, I hate poor people, I could defend myself agaisnt Robert Shapiro in a court of law, why would I run a ski resort it wouldn't pay me enough, you all are crazy, I'm right, I know everything, I invented weather forecasting so don't tell me about weather, I invented the internet too so thank me Greg for you having the opportunity to start a message board, this is how every ski resort needs to be, Magic sucks, were you there opening day last year because I was, I'll pay for season passes that don't pay for themselves because I can't be bothered waiting in line for a lift ticket, I pay off my lawyers and accountants with cars, I HATE tolls when I'm driving down the highway in my half ton pick up and 32 foot yaught in tow because I'm an environmentalists and tolls are bad for the environment.


That is you snowman, I hope you're proud of yourself.   I'm sure you are a filthy rich content man.  Hell I wouldn't be surpised if you OWNED newfoundland.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> But here's an idea for you... instead of reacting to the way people treat you, just treat them with the respect and courtesy that you'd like them to treat you with.  Maybe you'll regain some credibility, since you clearly have some amount of industry knowledge (whether others agree or not).  Just a thought.



I"m afraid I have a really low tollerance for stupid people. Stupid People: def: People who talk, when they should be listening. People who won't learn, no matter what you psychological tools you engage to try and promote learning. Stupid people are NOT to be confused with the learning disabled.

I've had to deal with a lot of stupid people in my life, and the cumulative result of this is I've discovered stupid people will be/act stupid no matter what you do. The only way you can really deal with them is to beat them at their own game to the point that it shuts them up (you got owned! etc) or simply shut up and walk away yourself. You're quite young (I think) and you're bound to end up with stupid people in your employ in the coming years. I'm stating the conclusion that I've come to after dealing with them for years. I'm not trying to be condecending here at all. I'm actually trying to give you food for thought by providing you with my results after trying everything under the sun. It's fine to try and go with the politically correct "rise above it" idea, but when applied in the real world, it typically doesn't work.


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

First of all, deadhead, that was even worse than most of snowman's posts.



deadheadskier said:


> I know more about snowmaking than the guy who invented the snow gun,



Now, in an effort to lighten things up a bit, I'll point out that the above quote is probably true, since the guy who invented the snowgun was just blowing water through a nozzle doing experiments related to airplane wings icing up.  He didn't give a hoot about air compressors, pumps, efficient nozzles, high-temp nucleators, etc.  He just wanted to freeze up some airplane wings.  So yeah... snowman _does_ know more about snowmaking than that guy did!


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Oh I thought that was Al Gore.



No, Al Gore invented skiing, not snowmaking.  Get it right.


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> No, I would not like you to stop replying to me, nor anyone else here. I would simply ask that you try to respect others' opinions and not immediately discount them. Whether you believe it or not, you're *not *always right. Anyway, I appreciate the seemingly forthright tone of this post. Let's consider this a turning point and move forward from here.



That will work for me, in terms of me and you atleast, however, I've come to the conclusion that for the good of this forum and my own personal free time, there are people on here I would do best to not respond to. I hope my response dealing with the racy subject of stupid people does not effect this peace treaty negotiated by the BMMUN....


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I hope my response dealing with the racy subject of stupid people does not effect this peace treaty negotiated by the BMMUN....



:lol:

Well, someone's gotta have a voice of reason around here :wink:


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I"m afraid I have a really low tollerance for stupid people. Stupid People: def: People who talk, when they should be listening. People who won't learn



so, basically what you're saying is you have really low tolerance for yourself????  that must suck


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> :lol:
> 
> Well, someone's gotta have a voice of reason around here :wink:



I find it quite funny that one of the few that I do see eye to eye with reached the breaking point (again) at the exact same time I did... :smile:


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## deadheadskier (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> First of all, deadhead, that was even worse than most of snowman's posts.




perhaps....I was just giving a summary of what I read from him each and every time he posts.  perhaps I should learn to employ the ignore function

I guess there's no point in flaming him though.  He does a damn good job of flaming himself on his own.


I'm done

Post on Snowman, keep building on your own legend that you are so proud of.......I've said my piece.


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## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I hope my response dealing with the racy subject of stupid people does not effect this peace treaty negotiated by the BMMUN....



No....I'll abide by this covenant after this one final comment:

Forthright wasn't quite the right word. Delusional was far more accurate. There really is no hope for you.


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Oh Boy I see a chance to jump back in here .. I will try not to disappoint you but my behavior will be even more bizarre so bizarre in fact I will probably make Greg's behavior seem very normal to you. I would like to be the voice of reason here but that position has been already taken by some guy out west. Even if the voice of reason would be the way to go after i finished my last beer i decided against that course of action too. I seem to remember somebody trying to play on my fear of being hit in the back by a skier. I believe you offered to give me some conditioning therapy in this regard which I do appreciate.  But I mentioned about using this approach to my therapist but she felt it would be a bad idea. Especially for you, you know my parole officer actually feels the same way too. You know what would happen.. you would run me over .. I would get up again but you wouldn't. Time for another beer .. Soxs in the lead .. and it's pouring now...



Hmmm, didn't i hear on the news that you guys up in the power plant got a little extra exposure to the ol' gamma rays recently? Or it might just be the beers . . . :beer:

Love these Snowman threads, so much fun reading on many levels. :lol:


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Things Snowman has little tolerance for :
> 1. Stupid People
> 2. Poor People
> 3. Feel free to add to the list ....



Jerry, you're the one who I honestly really don't understand. I don't understand if you're trying to antagonize, or be funny, or even what you're trying to say half the time, so I honestly don't know how to respond. I think it might be due to the beers you mentioned a few posts ago....  

I did atleast understand this post.

3. Tolls


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## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> No....I'll abide by this covenant after this one final comment:
> 
> Forthright wasn't quite the right word. Delusional was far more accurate. There really is no hope for you.



Last year a new cat operator at a hill I'm involved with came down of the mountain one morning, parked the groomer in front of the business office on top of a few ski racks, walked to the parking lot (lunch box in hand) with the Op's manager running after him, got in his truck, did some donuts in the parking lot spraying the ops manager and his car with gravel, left, and was never heard from again. There was NOTHING leading up to this. I've personally seen displays like this myself, but this was the one most relevant to this forum. There are some fu#%ed up people out there, that's all I have to say. The quicker you realize that, the better off you are.


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## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

16 pages?


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> 16 pages?



I'm impressed.  You can read! :wink: :lol:

I know, it's kind of funny, isn't it?  16 pages of this!


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

notsnowman said:


> 16 pages?



It's the gift that keeps giving.


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## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

Oops we just bumped it to 17.


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## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> It's the gift that keeps giving.



Yeah this stuff is gold. really i just want to publicize (SP?) the fact that i'm not snowman. i figure if I throw random useless post every couple of pages folks will get the message. red sox are killin it.


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## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Oops we just bumped it to 17.



That was my fault, sorry! :razz:


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## hammer (Oct 24, 2007)

For those who are interested, this is what started it all...



Greg said:


> All right - maybe I'm just dreaming here, but what the hell. Think there might be a chance of late October guns firing up anywhere in the Northeast? I still say the two best chances for early November openings would be Sugarloaf or Mount Snow with both Boyne and Peak Resorts wanting to make a statement. Well, take a look at these two 15 day forecasts:
> Kingfield, Maine 15-Day Forecast
> West Dover, Vermont 15-Day Forecast
> Those forecasts are for in-town so obviously the elevations should be colder. I know, I know, it's Accuweather and extended forecasts are never anything to hang your hat on (unless of course they are positive like these are. )
> ...


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

hammer said:


> For those who are interested, this is what started it all...



I love the direction some of these AZ posts take.  This is one of the reasons I post here.  Not to mention the fact that, in general, everyone walks away friends even after some nasty disputes.  Not always, but usually


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

hammer said:


> For those who are interested, this is what started it all...



Well Mt Snow seems to think they can do it by Nov 12th.

Gotta go get another Guiness. Go Sox!


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

can


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I feel a little Steezy getting my post count up like this ...



Huh? :lol:


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Wow, this is mad steezy fo sheezy! 18 pages!  Fo shizzle my stizzle nizzle!

:tongue-in-cheek:


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> can



No they didn't have any. Had to get the bottles. I do prefer the draft cans if I can get them.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> No they didn't have any. Had to get the bottles. I do prefer the draft cans if I can get them.



Steezy


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I love the direction some of these AZ posts take.  This is one of the reasons I post here.  Not to mention the fact that, in general, everyone walks away friends even after some nasty disputes.  Not always, but usually



how's the skiing out there? they still blowing snow?


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> how's the skiing out there? they still blowing snow?



No, they're all done for the year at Loveland because their system is 1,293.2 times larger than Killington's.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> how's the skiing out there? they still blowing snow?



Pretty good.  It goes back and forth between packed powder and compacted spring snow, depending on the day and the previous night's snowmaking.  

Guns are still roaring away.  Had a couple of days they blew straight through  I think we had one good 36 hour run.  Mostly just nights, though.  But our lows have consistently been in the mid teens for about two weeks now.


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I feel a little Steezy getting my post count up like this ...



Dude, lets just turn this whole thread into a postwhoring hijack. I really want a new mountain, but without the whole thinking part.:beer:


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> how's the skiing out there? they still blowing snow?



You obviously haven't seen this trip report yet.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> No, they're all done for the year at Loveland because their system is 1,293.2 times larger than Killington's.



Snowman, you're wrong.  It's 1,293.37 times larger.  If you can't get your facts straight, don't post at all.

:wink:


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Pretty good.  It goes back and forth between packed powder and compacted spring snow, depending on the day and the previous night's snowmaking.
> 
> Guns are still roaring away.  Had a couple of days they blew straight through  I think we had one good 36 hour run.  Mostly just nights, though.  But our lows have consistently been in the mid teens for about two weeks now.



Nice! i'm packing my stuff now. Hit the road in a week.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> Nice! i'm packing my stuff now. Hit the road in a week.



You should.  It's fun.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Pretty good.  It goes back and forth between packed powder and compacted spring snow, depending on the day and the previous night's snowmaking.
> 
> Guns are still roaring away.  Had a couple of days they blew straight through  I think we had one good 36 hour run.  Mostly just nights, though.  But our lows have consistently been in the mid teens for about two weeks now.



I'm skiing out there Dec 3-10. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to fly out, or drive out and tow my 32 foot boat... so I can get angry at the stupid poor people working in the toll booths. :lol:


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I'm skiing out there Dec 3-10. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to fly out, or drive out and tow my 32 foot boat... so I can get angry at the stupid poor people working in the toll booths. :lol:



Where are you skiing?


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Snowman, you're wrong.  It's 1,293.37 times larger.  If you can't get your facts straight, don't post at all.
> 
> :wink:




F$%K you Highwaystar :lol:


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

^^^^^ new sig-wicked original


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

I would just like to mention that this thread is now the 15th most popular in the skiing forums (based on # of replies). I just knew I was on to something here.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> F$%K you Highwaystar :lol:



:lol: you left the door wide open with that uber-pinpoint-statistic :wink:


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> I would just like to mention that this thread is now the 15th most popular in the skiing forums (based on # of replies). I just knew I was on to something here.



Don't worry, Greg... it won't take long until it's #1!!!


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Don't worry, Greg... it won't take long until it's #1!!!



Well, http://forums.alpinezone.com/3821-guess-ski-area.html has 1,681 replies so we have our work cut out for us...


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

bump


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> The Loaf ground away with so-so temps for days last year only to lose it all and have to start again. That landed them up at well over 100 hours of up time in the snowmaking plants before they opened. The relevance is some fool was saying you could open Tote road with 30 hours of snowmaking. Yeah, maybe, if it's 0F out for 30 hours straight, and even that would be a stretch. I said it'll take them 60 hours of snowmaking with temps hovering around 20 (the BEST forecast right now), and even that is a conservative figure if you look to years past and the ways of the weather. Does that tie it all together for you?



ROFL......again, more proof that you are full of it, and yourself.  

EVERYBODY made snow last year and lost it....DUH.  EVERY major resort.  The first weekend in November.  

I'm looking at my pictures of Sugarloaf from 11/21/07 last year, at around 1pm on a Tuesday.  That afternoon, it was pretty cold and they had guns running all the way up and down Tote Road, plus a couple other trails next to it and above it.  K2000's, Rangers and other tower guns.  I'm guessing around 60-100 guns, from what I count in the pictures.  If you assume 80 guns, at a flow rate of 40 gpm each, that's 3200 gpm.  Could be more could be less...it's just an estimate.  Did they have enough compressor capacity...at 200 scfm per gun, that would be 16000 scfm....maybe, maybe not....maybe they didn't need that.  Anyway, at around 3,000 gpm, it would take around 35 hours to make 35 acre feet of snow, the low side of my estimate for the amount of snow they made on tote road.  

Killington fired up their guns down to the K-1 base at around 6pm on that previous Sunday 11/19.  I know because we were there watching them do it.  They had been making snow higher up a bit previously.  Anyway, I don't find it hard to belive that Sugarloaf started some time that weekend (fri-sat), and officially opened monday afternoon, after about 2 or 3 days of snowmaking.  They probably got in their best production on sunday night and monday night.

Anyway, stop making it sound like they had to make snow for a week to open Tote road.  That's PURE BS.  It was 2-3 days at most.  If you have any REAL info, please post it up.  Otherwise, stop spewing your BS.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Where are you skiing?



It's up in the air. We were originally going to fly into Gunnison and ski at the Butte and around there, but we couldn't get 2 seats into Gunnison (really small plane). Got tickets for Denver, gonna maybe do something around there for a day or 2, then maybe do the Butte or something else for 3 or 4 days and come back and do 1 more day near Denver on the day before leaving. Probably just hit up whoever has the best product available. If anyone else is heading out. rental cars are dirt cheap on Expedia for that week right now. Just booked a full size for under $150 all in.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Well, http://forums.alpinezone.com/3821-guess-ski-area.html has 1,681 replies so we have our work cut out for us...



Ohhhhhhh, we can do it!

Speaking of the guess the area thread, it's about time to resurrect that one.  If only I had a good pic to post.


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> bump



Post whore.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> It's up in the air. We were originally going to fly into Gunnison and ski at the Butte and around there, but we couldn't get 2 seats into Gunnison (really small plane). Got tickets for Denver, gonna maybe do something around there for a day or 2, then maybe do the Butte or something else for 3 or 4 days and come back and do 1 more day near Denver on the day before leaving. Probably just hit up whoever has the best product available. If anyone else is heading out. rental cars are dirt cheap on Expedia for that week right now. Just booked a full size for under $150 all in.



I'll keep you apprised of the conditions, if you'd like.  I'll be out 5-6 days a week (both working and skiing).


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Post whore.



No, you don't understand.  Let me demonstrate post whore...


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

+1


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> I would just like to mention that this thread is now the 15th most popular in the skiing forums (based on # of replies). I just knew I was on to something here.



14th most popular.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

+ another 1


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

That's post whoring!


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Post something worthy....

Like:


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

13th most popular...


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

|


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> |



That works. 12th most popular.


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 24, 2007)

SNOWMAN.......I'M CALLING YOU OUT FOR A SKI OFF!!!!!!

Post up some actual snowmaking FACTS.  DO YOUR MATH.  PROVE TO US YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.  IT DID NOT TAKE SUGARLOAF 150 HOURS OF SNOWMAKING TO OPEN TOTE ROAD LAST YEAR!!!!


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

:roll:


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> It's up in the air. We were originally going to fly into Gunnison and ski at the Butte and around there, but we couldn't get 2 seats into Gunnison (really small plane). Got tickets for Denver, gonna maybe do something around there for a day or 2, then maybe do the Butte or something else for 3 or 4 days and come back and do 1 more day near Denver on the day before leaving. Probably just hit up whoever has the best product available. If anyone else is heading out. rental cars are dirt cheap on Expedia for that week right now. Just booked a full size for under $150 all in.



I bet loveland will be pretty good by then.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> SNOWMAN.......I'M CALLING YOU OUT FOR A SKI OFF!!!!!!
> 
> Post up some actual snowmaking FACTS.  DO YOUR MATH.  PROVE TO US YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.  IT DID NOT TAKE SUGARLOAF 150 HOURS OF SNOWMAKING TO OPEN TOTE ROAD LAST YEAR!!!!



Why don't you post something productive like we are?


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> SNOWMAN.......I'M CALLING YOU OUT FOR A SKI OFF!!!!!!



Wrong forum, dude...


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> I'll keep you apprised of the conditions, if you'd like.  I'll be out 5-6 days a week (both working and skiing).



I'll hit you up for intel at the end of Nov. In the meantime, could you please explain the first 10 pages of this (when we were talking about the actual subject at hand) to Highwaystar. I don't have the patience to post (for the 30th time in 2 months) that snow gets made exponentially faster at an RH weighted 15 vs. 25F. Sigh.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Oh dear, now Highwaystar is confusing snowmaking with skiing ability? As long as there are some gates, he's sunk. If we're talking bumps, I'm sunk. My knees quit being able to run bumps at 30 mph 10 years ago.


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> A good nights work for me here ..



Indeed. This thread has it all, including Highway Star's first official ski-off challenge on AZ. Wow. We need snow. :roll:


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> Oh dear, now Highwaystar is confusing snowmaking with skiing ability? As long as there are some gates, he's sunk. If we're talking bumps, I'm sunk. My knees quit being able to run bumps at 30 mph 10 years ago.



I'm an ex-racer, chump.

You also have no concept of a ski off....please visit K-zone for more details.

Regardless, you still haven't posted jack squat to back up your assertions about what it takes to open a ski area early.


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> You also have no concept of a ski off....please visit K-zone for more details.



Has a "ski-off" ever really even happened?


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Indeed. This thread has it all, including Highway Star's first official ski-off challenge on AZ. Wow. We need snow. :roll:



It's possible that he's just sour that I beat him in the poll...even after he signed in and voted for himself with all 3 of his identities... :lol:


----------



## Greg (Oct 24, 2007)

Well, this post officially puts us in the top 10 so I'm off to bed. 'Night you big bunch of internet tough guys...


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I'll hit you up for intel at the end of Nov. In the meantime, could you please explain the first 10 pages of this (when we were talking about the actual subject at hand) to Highwaystar. I don't have the patience to post (for the 30th time in 2 months) that snow gets made exponentially faster at an RH weighted 15 vs. 25F. Sigh.



Why, of course I could!

Highwaystar... listen up.

Most snowguns on the market are designed with a maximum startup temperature of 28 degrees wet bulb.  Wet bulb, of course, is a function of the dry bulb temp and the RH.  It's 28, instead of 32 because of a concept called "Head of Fusion," which dictates that it takes 144btu of energy to freeze a sufficiently nucleated particle of water.  That 144btu causes a temperature rise of 4 degrees, which is why the water must be cooled to at least 28 degrees before it will freeze (and come to rest at 32, hence why people think 32 is the freezing point).

In order to get snow, water droplets have to have a nucleator.  In fact, distilled water doesn't freeze until around -40 degrees F. Now... there are high temperature nucleators, low temp nucleators, and infinite variations in between.  In any given droplet, you may have several different types of nucleators.  The droplet will automatically form around the highest temp nucleator in the droplet.  But sometimes, that nucleator is such that the droplet won't freeze until, say, 15 degrees.  Others may freeze at 25.  Still others not until 5 degrees.

I could continue to explain in depth for about 6 more pages.  But I'll tie it all up nicely and more easily understood like this: the colder the temperature, the more water droplets freeze.  With one gun at 25 degrees, for example, you're running 35gpm and might only be freezing 50% of the water droplets that come out of the gun (and your compressors are on full-blast), and then maybe 15% of those droplets will crack before fully freezing. At 15 degrees you're running 150gpm and you might freeze 80% of those droplets, with only 5% splitting.  At 5 degrees, you're running 250gpm and maybe 97% of those droplets are freezing and you're not even using compressed air anymore.

And humidity dramatically affects production.  Have a look at a psychrometric chart to learn more about RH's direct effects on wet bulb.

If you want more, just ask!


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> I'm an ex-racer, chump.
> 
> You also have no concept of a ski off....please visit K-zone for more details.
> 
> Regardless, you still haven't posted jack squat to back up your assertions about what it takes to open a ski area early.



Goooooolly. I'm in trouble now! What age division of Nastar was that exactly? I'm positive I can't compete with you so I'll just stay put over here and talk about the good old days with my former development squad Europa Cup buddies.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 24, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Major hijacking going on here .. Where is Marc? He needs to get in on this too ...



I know...what's he waiting for......

Actually the voice of reason in this thread are the AZers who have not chimed in........except Marc , of course.

I knew HS would challenge for a ski-off and the season hasn't started yet. I think there was a ski-off last year but I think HS went to the wrong part of the resort. This thread is a mere child when compared to the HS vs the world threads on EpicSki.


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Why, of course I could!
> 
> Highwaystar... listen up.
> 
> ...



You even taught me a fact or 2 with that one. My knowledge of snowmaking is mostly based on study of the actual product produced at every temperature and RH under the sun (and moon), rather than sitting in a classroom having what's really going on explained to me. Distilled water doesn't freeze until -40?? That immediately set me to thinking. Why isn't distilled water used for windsheild wash??


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I know...what's he waiting for......
> 
> Actually the voice of reason in this thread are the AZers who have not chimed in........except Marc , of course.



Guess that counts you out! :wink:


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

Greg said:


> Has a "ski-off" ever really even happened?



Is there a Chinese downhill involved?


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> You even taught me a fact or 2 with that one. My knowledge of snowmaking is mostly based on study of the actual product produced at every temperature and RH under the sun (and moon), rather than sitting in a classroom having what's really going on explained to me. Distilled water doesn't freeze until -40?? That immediately set me to thinking. Why isn't distilled water used for windsheild wash??



Which is why I love this program.  I'm doing both.  It's explained to about the deepest level possible in the lecture, and then we head out for the lab and actually do it.  Can't beat that.

Yeah, distilled water doesn't freeze until -40.  I'll quote "More to a Plume than Meets the Sky," by John Gell, "Pure, distilled water in a sterile environment, for example, must be cooled to -40 F for freezing to occur.  As we know, freezing does in fact occur above -40 as long as there is an 'impurity,' or nucleator present which is capable of initiating the freezing process."

What are the contents of normal windshield wash?  It does sound like distilled water would be a logical component...


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Is there a Chinese downhill involved?



WTF is a chinese downhill?


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Which is why I love this program.  I'm doing both.  It's explained to about the deepest level possible in the lecture, and then we head out for the lab and actually do it.  Can't beat that.
> 
> Yeah, distilled water doesn't freeze until -40.  I'll quote "More to a Plume than Meets the Sky," by John Gell, "Pure, distilled water in a sterile environment, for example, must be cooled to -40 F for freezing to occur.  As we know, freezing does in fact occur above -40 as long as there is an 'impurity,' or nucleator present which is capable of initiating the freezing process."
> 
> What are the contents of normal windshield wash?  It does sound like distilled water would be a logical component...



mix it up with a little ammonia?


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> WTF is a chinese downhill?



Go out and rent yourself Hot Dog The Movie.


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Go out and rent yourself Hot Dog The Movie.



My bad, you were actually quoting the movie. :smash:


----------



## snoseek (Oct 24, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Go out and rent yourself Hot Dog The Movie.



I was trying to rip off my favorite line. That movie is truly a gem.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 24, 2007)

BMM wrote:


> I guess that leaves you out



I don't think so....I was very careful to make sure my posts in this thread did not contribute in anyway regarding the pissing contest this thread evolved to. Just humorous divergenses and other catchy thoughts.

BTW BMM...How is everyone out there taking the first game of the WS. The CR looked like former members of the developement squad, when is the actual team coming east? :lol:


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> I'm skiing out there Dec 3-10. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to fly out, or drive out and tow my 32 foot boat... so I can get angry at the stupid poor people working in the toll booths. :lol:




You have a 42 foot boat??? That's so cool..you're alright for a tool..lol


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> WTF is a chinese downhill?



I'll assume this is serious...but...hard to believe you've never heard of it! It's where you race down a trail versus numerous opponents. In a TRUE chinese downhill....you try to win by running your opponents off the trail etc...any means possible. When I raced we used to do the odd Chinese downhill (minus the dirty tactics) early in the morning (before others could get on the trail ahead of us) just to see who was running fastest. They were quite fun actually....you can slip stream opponents and slingshot etc....more like car racing than regular DH.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> It's up in the air. We were originally going to fly into Gunnison and ski at the Butte and around there, but we couldn't get 2 seats into Gunnison (really small plane). Got tickets for Denver, gonna maybe do something around there for a day or 2, then maybe do the Butte or something else for 3 or 4 days and come back and do 1 more day near Denver on the day before leaving. Probably just hit up whoever has the best product available. If anyone else is heading out. rental cars are dirt cheap on Expedia for that week right now. Just booked a full size for under $150 all in.




Whose we???  You mean you have a friend in real life???


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> WTF is a chinese downhill?



U'm always down for an Asian American downhill..they're mad steezy yo..every man for himself...


----------



## snowman (Oct 24, 2007)

snoseek said:


> mix it up with a little ammonia?



I have no clue. I was on the impression it has antifreeze in it. It's not kept sterile for sure, so that shoots the idea of using it by itself out of the sky. I DO KNOW the chemicals in windshield wash are bad for the environment, which is why I asked. It can't be anything TOO special where it sells for 1/2 the price of Pepsi :smile:


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

snowman said:


> It's not kept sterile for sure, so that shoots the idea of using it by itself out of the sky.



Very true.  As soon as it came into contact with impurities, nucleators have already been introduced and it may freeze before it even makes it to the windshield, depending on wet bulb, of course.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> I don't think so....I was very careful to make sure my posts in this thread did not contribute in anyway regarding the pissing contest this thread evolved to. Just humorous divergenses and other catchy thoughts.



Well, at least you're good for something :wink:


So, SRO, how are things in the good 'ol MRV holding up?


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 24, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Why, of course I could!
> 
> Highwaystar... listen up.
> 
> ...



It's "heat of fusion", btw.  Allow me to remind you that I'm an M.E.  So I may have taken a few physics, chem, thermo and heat transfer courses along the way.... 

So what?  I do understand all you discussed.  Yes, RH is used to calculate wet bulb.
 You end up with very wet snow that you can either let leech, or groom immediately into a skating rink.  I've seen both.  Regardless, you're probably not going to consume much more than 200k-225k gallons of water per acre foot of snow.  I've been using the rough figure of 180k for my calculations here, which is still on the high side....wet snow.  

This is all irrelevant to Sugarloaf.  It was cold enough up there to blow top to bottom.  If it was 28F WB at the bottom, it was certainly colder up top during the day.  They seemed to be doing alright on production for only a few days too....proof is in the pudding.  I'm not suggesting they blew at 28F WB the entire time, it was ceratinly colder.

Lets face facts here - if you don't have the capablity to blow in 25-28F WB..........you're going to have a bad time.  How do you think all these resorts south of VT stay in business?  Not everyone can afford to wait around for 10F inorder to make snow...they wouldn't get open.  There will always be a market for snowmaking tech that performs efficiently at higher temps - hence the fan guns.  Ditto for systems like the IDE snowmaker....now that's the way to go.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 24, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> It's "heat of fusion", btw.  Allow me to remind you that I'm an M.E.  So I may have taken a few physics, chem, thermo and heat transfer courses along the way....
> 
> So what?  I do understand all you discussed.  Yes, RH is used to calculate wet bulb.
> You end up with very wet snow that you can either let leech, or groom immediately into a skating rink.  I've seen both.  Regardless, you're probably not going to consume much more than 200k-225k gallons of water per acre foot of snow.  I've been using the rough figure of 180k for my calculations here, which is still on the high side....wet snow.
> ...



Yes, "heat of fusion."  Hit the "d" instead of the "t."  I'm well versed in the theory, I assure you.

The typical number being thrown around the industry right now is 12,000 gallons per acre inch for average quality snow (30 or so lbs/cubic foot).  So you're not too far off for wet snow.

I'm not arguing for anyone's side of this.  I was just asked to discuss the dynamics of snowmaking.  So I did.  I wasn't talking about the Loaf at all.  You didn't argue with any of my points, so I guess we're in agreement?


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 25, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> BTW BMM...How is everyone out there taking the first game of the WS. The CR looked like former members of the developement squad, when is the actual team coming east? :lol:



hahaha... considering that half the students are east coasters, half of us are lovin it, and half are hatin it!


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 25, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Well, at least you're good for something :wink:
> 
> 
> So, SRO, how are things in the good 'ol MRV holding up?



Everything is going good. Busy summer at the Bush, had alot of fun. This season will be a big change for me as I am leaving the "old school" behind and moving up to the modern era of skiing. Buying a pair of almost new Rossi Bandit Demo's with binding for the sweet price of $288, almost new boots are also in the budget. The Bandits are 167 and my ski's of the last 5 years are 190's so I guess they are going to take abit of getting used to.

Hopefully we can ski together when you come back for a visit and you can tell me all about it. Curious how Leadville is to live at being over 10,000ft. BTW, my son took off early this morning bound for DIA, then to Breck as his job starts Nov 1. I think you guys are the same age.His employee housing looks pretty sweet so now me and your dad have something else in common other than being old fart Sugarbushers. Study hard, have fun.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 25, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> Everything is going good, this season will be a big change for me as I am leaving the "old school" behind and moving up to the modern era of skiing. Buying a pair of almost new Rossi Bandit Demo's with binding for the sweet price of $288, almost new boots are also in the budget. The Bandits are 167 and my ski's of the last 5 years are 190's so I guess they are going to take abit of getting used to.



Wow... you actually gave in?  Heck, when I come back out here after Christmas break, I'm bringing my 160 straights with me!  I get such a kick out of tearing up a zipperline on 15 year old straight skis!



			
				SRO said:
			
		

> Hopefully we can ski together when you come back for a visit and you can tell me all about it. Curious how Leadville is to live at being over 10,000ft. BTW, my son took off early this morning bound for DIA, then to Breck as his job starts Nov 1. His employee housing looks pretty sweet so now me and your dad have something in common other than being old fart Sugarbushers. Study hard, have fun.



We'll definitely have to make some turns.

Took about 2 weeks to be able to actually breathe up here @ 10000ft!  Acclimatization is quite a process.

Glad to here your son's getting ready to settle in out here.  I'm sure he'll love it.

And please, please, please, try to keep my dad in line.  Someone has to do it.  :wink:

Well, I've gotta head off to bed.  OEC @ 8AM, then Snowmaking at 2:30, and Stats at 6:00.  Busy day tomorrow!


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## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Wow... you actually gave in?  Heck, when I come back out here after Christmas break, I'm bringing my 160 straights with me!  I get such a kick out of tearing up a zipperline on 15 year old straight skis!



Pfffft. That's no fun. Let me lend you some 215 Atomic Super G boards from the "Red Sled" era. :smile:


----------



## Vortex (Oct 25, 2007)

Well it took 25 min to read what I missed last night.  What was this about. I think Snowman has some good points that are open to discussion. I agree with some I disagree with some.  As far as attacking people.I have made turns with oldsnowboarder ( a gentleman and a person my son respected instantly)Snowseek...  As fun a person to hang with as you will find.   Name the time and place and he will be here. Adapted his life to count days not on the hill as opposed to those on the hill.  He wins.

This site for me is about meeting people and making turns and having fun. Attacks don't belong here.

The last thing is many here are in the know and don't act like they do (humble)

  Want to know about the River listen to Eastcoastpowderhound.  This is only about fun. I do fairly well in the that category. So keep the thread going but remember this is about community.


----------



## YardSaleDad (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> You're a moron Greg, Frontpage is way better", would you get annoyed and begin to talk down to me at that point? Yes, most likely you would.



Greg has not, as far as I know, talked down to anyone on this forum.  He has stepped in when people have gotten abusive.


----------



## snoseek (Oct 25, 2007)

I took my annoying sig down.


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## Vortex (Oct 25, 2007)

Well done gents .A tour would be fun.  Snowseek travel safe you will be missed. I hear they have lift lagers out west also.


----------



## Greg (Oct 25, 2007)

Wild night. Let's get back on topic. Now that we're closer to this potential snowmaking window, I checked the NWS. The point forecast at Sugarloaf for 2,942 feet looks very good starting Sunday night:


> Sunday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 24.
> 
> Monday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 38.
> 
> ...



The Accuweater 15 Day has moderated a little bit, but it still has things trending colder through day 15:

http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-15day.asp?partner=forecastfox&traveler=0&zipcode=04947&metric=0

Again, that's Kingfield. Still looks very promising to me.


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 25, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Yes, "heat of fusion."  Hit the "d" instead of the "t."  I'm well versed in the theory, I assure you.
> 
> The typical number being thrown around the industry right now is 12,000 gallons per acre inch for average quality snow (30 or so lbs/cubic foot).  So you're not too far off for wet snow.
> 
> I'm not arguing for anyone's side of this.  I was just asked to discuss the dynamics of snowmaking.  So I did.  I wasn't talking about the Loaf at all.  You didn't argue with any of my points, so I guess we're in agreement?



No, but point being, it shouldn't take more than a 3 solid nights or 2 solid days/nights to open Tote road, in contrary to what snowman implied.  For an upper mountain opening at sugarloaf, 2 nights should be sufficient......


----------



## Greg (Oct 25, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> No, but point being, it shouldn't take more than a 3 solid nights or 2 solid days/nights to open Tote road, in contrary to what snowman implied.  For an upper mountain opening at sugarloaf, 2 nights should be sufficient......



Well, last year, they were able to get skiable coverage on Tote Road in "3 days" on two separate occasions in November. I'm not sure if that was round-the-clock snowmaking or not:

http://news.alpinezone.com/11009/
http://news.alpinezone.com/11319/

I still say an opening late next week is very possible.


----------



## 2knees (Oct 25, 2007)

snoseek said:


> WTF is a chinese downhill?




I had sunny side UP
I had sunny side DOWN
I had sunny side ALL ZEE VAY AROUND.

sorry, i had to get in on this somehow.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> Wild night. Let's get back on topic. Now that we're closer to this potential snowmaking window, I checked the NWS. The point forecast at Sugarloaf for 2,942 feet looks very good starting Sunday night:
> 
> 
> The Accuweater 15 Day has moderated a little bit, but it still has things trending colder through day 15:
> ...



For resorts wanting to open around the 10th this should be welcome news. Course, the weather after the forcast period is very important for those managers who worry about the snow they would make melting off. 

For the resorts opening 11/15-11/22 and hoping to have a good t-day weekend most will probably have to wait and hope for the cold weather during the above forecast period to continue. Conversly I suppose some will be of the mind to make as much snow as possible in a storage MO hoping to be able to move it onto the terrain 2 weeks later. 

We are finally getting to a point where we find out who talks the talk and who walks the walk. Will Powdr/SP be a leader in the amount/quality of terrain available when they open or continue into the season with their path of bottomline driven actions and decisions. 

If the weather forcast holds the ski season will start around the 26th, looking forward to seeing the snowmaking pics. Who will have the most guns blasting? I'm getting so giddy I can hardly stand it..:lol:


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 25, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> We are finally getting to a point where we find out who talks the talk and who walks the walk. Will Powdr/SP be a leader in the amount/quality of terrain available when they open or continue into the season with their path of bottomline driven actions and decisions.



From what Killington has said, they will be doing the full K-1/Glades/Snowdon opening as they have done in years past....which is alot of terrain and tends to be fun, if a bit crowded.  However, they have also said that they will not expend lots of energy to make snow in marginal temps in an attempt to "open early".  They have also stated an opening date of Nov. 16th.

As is becoming the norm with Killington these days, these 3 statements seem to be in conflict.  As stated previously, it requires 100+ acre feet of snow to open all that terrain.  It is unlikely they will see a solid window of sub-20F temps down to the the K-1 long enough to do all the production, and then there are no promises it won't simply melt.  If they get into a bad situation with the weather like last year, will they pull the plug on snowmaking and not even open for thanksgiving?  Or will they push an opening because it's a holiday?

We'll see...but it would be highly embarassing if Killington didn't open until December, with other resorts opening in mid-Novemeber......really, really bad PR.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 25, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> From what Killington has said, they will be doing the full K-1/Glades/Snowdon opening as they have done in years past....which is alot of terrain and tends to be fun, if a bit crowded.  However, they have also said that they will not expend lots of energy to make snow in marginal temps in an attempt to "open early".  They have also stated an opening date of Nov. 16th.
> 
> As is becoming the norm with Killington these days, these 3 statements seem to be in conflict.  As stated previously, it requires 100+ acre feet of snow to open all that terrain.  It is unlikely they will see a solid window of sub-20F temps down to the the K-1 long enough to do all the production, and then there are no promises it won't simply melt.  If they get into a bad situation with the weather like last year, will they pull the plug on snowmaking and not even open for thanksgiving?  Or will they push an opening because it's a holiday?
> 
> We'll see...but it would be highly embarassing if Killington didn't open until December, with other resorts opening in mid-Novemeber......really, really bad PR.



Some folks get on your case HS, but this is an excellent post.

Unfortunately, we have to wait to see what happens.


----------



## mister moose (Oct 25, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> .. I am really a nice guy and treat people with courtesty and respect *until I have been pushed (forced) to do otherwise*.



You are never forced.  It is a concious decision on your part.  The test of your character is during times of adversity, not when everything is going your way.  Everyone is nice when things go their way.

Not directed at you in particular, as several others have made that exact same statement, or a close copy.

(And you guys say K zone is bad).


----------



## Greg (Oct 25, 2007)

mister moose said:


> (And you guys say K zone is bad).



Please. This thread is sort of an anomaly. The discussions here are generally nowhere near what they are like on K-zone.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 25, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> From what Killington has said, they will be doing the full K-1/Glades/Snowdon opening as they have done in years past....which is alot of terrain and tends to be fun, if a bit crowded.  However, they have also said that they will not expend lots of energy to make snow in marginal temps in an attempt to "open early".  They have also stated an opening date of Nov. 16th.
> 
> As is becoming the norm with Killington these days, these 3 statements seem to be in conflict.  As stated previously, it requires 100+ acre feet of snow to open all that terrain.  It is unlikely they will see a solid window of sub-20F temps down to the the K-1 long enough to do all the production, and then there are no promises it won't simply melt.  If they get into a bad situation with the weather like last year, will they pull the plug on snowmaking and not even open for thanksgiving?  Or will they push an opening because it's a holiday?
> 
> We'll see...but it would be highly embarassing if Killington didn't open until December, with other resorts opening in mid-Novemeber......really, really bad PR.



I agree with Jim...great post! Yup, alot of if's, that's why this is so dam interesting.


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## drjeff (Oct 25, 2007)

A pic to put the thread back into a more civil perspective.

This is from skilifts.org, taken by an employee of Snow Valley, CA, whose been living in the base lodge there with his family (wife, 3 kids, dog, etc) for the last few days due to fire evacuations.

The pic is of a helicopter dipping a water bucket in Snow Valley's snowmaking pond for fire fighting purposes!  Plus look how low that reservoir is, and most of the water level is drought related, NOT firefighting, and apparently per this person, across the ridgeline from Snow Valley, the Trinity Mountain ski area (www.trinitymountainresort.com) was completely burned by the slide fire out there!

Now back to the bickering


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## wa-loaf (Oct 25, 2007)

drjeff said:


> The pic is of a helicopter dipping a water bucket in Snow Valley's snowmaking pond for fire fighting purposes!  Plus look how low that reservoir is, and most of the water level is drought related, NOT firefighting, and apparently per this person, across the ridgeline from Snow Valley, the Trinity Mountain ski area (www.trinitymountainresort.com) was completely burned by the slide fire out there!



Didn't Sun Valley recently use their snowmaking system to help put out a forrest fire?

Here's the article: http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2640970420070827


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## The Sneak (Oct 25, 2007)

Because my cousin is a hydrologist at the NWS, and because I built a crude snow gun from home depot sourced plumbing materials last winter, I will draw upon my considerable knowledge and experience to predict top to bottom skiing within 200 miles of Boston by Veteran's Day.

And I've seen the loaf open with Spillway first --- in October. It has been done.
I've skied the front side of Mt Snow on November 11th. 

Hell, in 1992 I skied Jiminy Peak in pouring 45 degree rain, wearing a trash bag. On November 11th.

Hang in there. It's coming.


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## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 25, 2007)

2knees said:


> I had sunny side UP
> I had sunny side DOWN
> I had sunny side ALL ZEE VAY AROUND.
> 
> sorry, i had to get in on this somehow.



"You toad sucking son of a bitch"  H.Banks

"Hey Rudi, why don't you ask the rookie here about his bubble bath with Silvia last night  Whooa Hooo!" S.Murphy

"That's right Rudi, you've been back doored again, but this time right in the same house"  D. O'Callahan
"you just ain't on Sylvia's top forty shorty"  S.Murphy


----------



## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> Well, last year, they were able to get skiable coverage on Tote Road in "3 days" on two separate occasions in November. I'm not sure if that was round-the-clock snowmaking or not:
> 
> http://news.alpinezone.com/11009/
> http://news.alpinezone.com/11319/
> ...



It took them 3 continuous days, or 72+ hours to make enough snow for a staff photo op in round one. They had really good conditions in round one, as low as 10F at night. In round 2, they were at it for another 50 hours continuous to get open with really marginal skiing conditions...building on top of what little was left from round one, and a couple of nights inbetween. That = 150+ hours to get open in 2006, exactly as I said. It also equals more than 60 hours of snowmaking to get a marginal base regardless of weather disasters. Also, exactly as I said. They also had much better weather conditions for round one than are currently forecasted in the BEST forecast for the next 2 weeks at the loaf. I rest my case.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> It took them 3 continuous days, or 72+ hours to make enough snow for a staff photo op in round one. They had really good conditions in round one, as low as 10F at night. In round 2, they were at it for another 50 hours continuous to get open with really marginal skiing conditions...building on top of what little was left from round one, and a couple of nights inbetween. That = 150+ hours to get open in 2006, exactly as I said. It also equals more than 60 hours of snowmaking to get a marginal base regardless of weather disasters. Also, exactly as I said. They also had much better weather conditions for round one than are currently forecasted in the BEST forecast for the next 2 weeks at the loaf. I rest my case.



Snowman how far do you live from the Loaf?  BTW I like your pink pole shirt...it's mad steezy yo...lol


----------



## Greg (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> It took them 3 continuous days, or 72+ hours to make enough snow for a staff photo op in round one. They had really good conditions in round one, as low as 10F at night. In round 2, they were at it for another 50 hours continuous to get open with really marginal skiing conditions...building on top of what little was left from round one, and a couple of nights inbetween. That = 150+ hours to get open in 2006, exactly as I said. It also equals more than 60 hours of snowmaking to get a marginal base regardless of weather disasters. Also, exactly as I said. They also had much better weather conditions for round one than are currently forecasted in the BEST forecast for the next 2 weeks at the loaf. I rest my case.



It seems if they were "building on top of *what little was left* from round one", that means they were basically starting over so it doesn't *have to* take 150 hours to get a skiable surface, but rather only ~72, evidenced by their results from round 1, correct?


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> It took them 3 continuous days, or 72+ hours to make enough snow for a staff photo op in round one. They had really good conditions in round one, as low as 10F at night. In round 2, they were at it for another 50 hours continuous to get open with really marginal skiing conditions...building on top of what little was left from round one, and a couple of nights inbetween. That = 150+ hours to get open in 2006, exactly as I said. It also equals more than 60 hours of snowmaking to get a marginal base regardless of weather disasters. Also, exactly as I said. They also had much better weather conditions for round one than are currently forecasted in the BEST forecast for the next 2 weeks at the loaf. I rest my case.



ROFL...again, your logic sucks.  Try coming back to reality here.  They blew snow for 3 days, then let it melt for 2 weeks.....OOOPS!!!!!!!  A claim of 150 hours is not valid.  With all the rain in those two weeks, Killington was down to nothing left aside from a few snowballs.  Sugarloaf was starting over from scratch, basicly, and they got open in two days...no problem.  That's alot closer to my estimates than yours.......


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> It seems if they were "building on top of *what little was left* from round one", that means they were basically starting over so it doesn't *have to* take 150 hours to get a skiable surface, but rather only ~72, evidenced by their results from round 1, correct?



Greg, per the article you linked, they started making snow on Saturday afternoon and then opened less than 48 hours later, on Monday around 1-2 pm.


----------



## Greg (Oct 25, 2007)

Highway Star said:


> Greg, per the article you linked, they started making snow on Saturday afternoon and then opened less than 48 hours later, on Monday around 1-2 pm.



Right. With lows Monday and Tuesday night of 18F and 22F respectively, I'm still optimistic.


----------



## Vortex (Oct 25, 2007)

Facts have no place in this discussion.


----------



## bobbutts (Oct 25, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Snowman how far do you live from the Loaf?  BTW I like your pink pole shirt...it's mad steezy yo...lol



yeah I'm digging the short, scrawny, bald steeze on Snowman too


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> Right. With lows Monday and Tuesday night of 18F and 22F respectively, I'm still optimistic.



I think it's highly likely that they will try to make snow those nights.....and maybe even try to open on it.


But I certainly don't put any weight on long term forcasts....you can barely trust them about 48 hours out, but beyond that, it's purely guesswork.


----------



## hammer (Oct 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> Right. With lows Monday and Tuesday night of 18F and 22F respectively, I'm still optimistic.


Keep the faith...from http://www.mattnoyes.net/new_england_weather/:

"Behind Sunday's disturbance, the flood gates for cool air will open, and a shot of below normal air will spill into New England, bringing sunshine but holding high temperatures only in the lower 50s, on average, for Monday, with the higher terrain of Northern and Western New England holding in the 40s!  This pattern of cool daytime highs and chilly overnight lows will return in surges every few days for the next couple of weeks, it seems, as a jet stream trough will remain carved out across the Northeast...allowing for swings in temperature between below and near normal values."


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

bobbutts said:


> yeah I'm digging the short, scrawny, bald steeze on Snowman too




haha..well I'm relatively tall, husky, and have a full head of hair..lol..and I would never wear a pink polo shirt...ahahahaha


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

hammer said:


> Keep the faith...from http://www.mattnoyes.net/new_england_weather/:
> 
> "Behind Sunday's disturbance, the flood gates for cool air will open, and a shot of below normal air will spill into New England, bringing sunshine but holding high temperatures only in the lower 50s, on average, for Monday, with the higher terrain of Northern and Western New England holding in the 40s!  This pattern of cool daytime highs and chilly overnight lows will return in surges every few days for the next couple of weeks, it seems, as a jet stream trough will remain carved out across the Northeast...allowing for swings in temperature between below and near normal values."




me likey...below normal to normal temps in early November means......Snowmaking..


----------



## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 25, 2007)

Has this thread turned into the cyber-geek personals?  I bet GSS and Snowman don't have compatible astrological signs.:lol:


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

eastcoastpowderhound said:


> Has this thread turned into the cyber-geek personals?  I bet GSS and Snowman don't have compatible astrological signs.:lol:



That reminds me, I need to update my profile on match.com I've got to add some grass skiing pictures...lol

On topic...wow I can't wait to ski...in a little over 2 weeks..


----------



## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

Greg said:


> It seems if they were "building on top of *what little was left* from round one", that means they were basically starting over so it doesn't *have to* take 150 hours to get a skiable surface, but rather only ~72, evidenced by their results from round 1, correct?



Right. I never said it takes 150 hours of snowmaking to get the loaf open. I said that, at best, it takes 60 hours to cover something off the superquad really sparsely. It was when people started saying it only takes 30 hours of snowmaking to open the loaf that I pointed out that last year it took them about 150, and that my number is conservative, optomistic and when hitches get thrown into the plan (as they almost always do) it takes many, many more hours.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

Hi Frosty, how's your day going???


----------



## campgottagopee (Oct 25, 2007)

GEEEEEZZZZZUUUUUUUSSSSS

I just spent 25 minutes or so reading this thread. I take a couple days off and look what I missed. Simply stated, *WOW*


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> What no "1500 post" thread .. your slipping son. Your daily rate is way down too.



Oh Snap I didn't even notice...I guess I'll write a rap..right here in this thread but it needs to somehow pertain to October and Snowmaking..

No four leaf clover
Not lucky enough to ski in October
I'm not faking too warm for snowmaking
Even still my raps mad crispy like bacon
and some toast or a grilled steeze sandwich
copped me some ground beef and a can of manwich
eating sloppy Joes with my Steezy Hoes
wearing bikinis you call me GSS they call me Panini
drinking martinis with a twist of lime 
edges sharp I can turn on a dime or nickle
the weather can be fickle but winter will come
even though I live in Pennsyltucky I'm still a skibum..Holla


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 25, 2007)

> what little was left from round one"



Silly me...I was thinking the post was going to be the recapitulation of the thread....:lol:


----------



## campgottagopee (Oct 25, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Oh Snap I didn't even notice...I guess I'll write a rap..right here in this thread but it needs to somehow pertain to October and Snowmaking..
> 
> No four leaf clover
> Not lucky enough to ski in October
> ...



I hate to admit this, but I read that, and it made me laugh:beer:


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

campgottagopee said:


> I hate to admit this, but I read that, and it made me laugh:beer:



I freaking love to rap...almost as much as I enjoy skiing and surfing the internet writing about skiing and laughing at trolls like Snowman..lol


----------



## campgottagopee (Oct 25, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I freaking love to rap...almost as much as I enjoy skiing and surfing the internet writing about skiing and laughing at trolls like Snowman..lol



One word comes to mind, therapy?????:roll::wink:


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> Right. I never said it takes 150 hours of snowmaking to get the loaf open. I said that, at best, it takes 60 hours to cover something off the superquad really sparsely. It was when people started saying it only takes 30 hours of snowmaking to open the loaf that I pointed out that last year it took them about 150, and that my number is conservative, optomistic and when hitches get thrown into the plan (as they almost always do) it takes many, many more hours.



Again, you're full of BS and terrible at communicating.  It took them less than 48 hours to open tote road....I highyl doubt they had anything of substance left from previous snowmaking.


----------



## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Oh Snap I didn't even notice...I guess I'll write a rap..right here in this thread but it needs to somehow pertain to October and Snowmaking..
> 
> No four leaf clover
> Not lucky enough to ski in October
> ...



That's a horrible rap. Ever hear of 16's and 32's? 

Now here's a lil' story bout a skank called steezy, who tryed to write a rap online,
His rhymes were limp, some call im' gump, I call im' gimp, 
and lisnin' to his stuff should be a crime 

The boy thinks he's good, but come time to swing wood, they call im' little man,
He says he's slick, I think he's a dick, 
But I jus' really don't give a god damn

Alpinezone is his home, but sometimes he romes, right onto match dot com,
1 big stud is the screen name, but come time to show real game,
The chick he takes home is his mom

I hear he has flaws, he clutches to straws, and I know he's color blind,
My label is Konvict, his label is reject,
N' one might just say he got slimed


----------



## koreshot (Oct 25, 2007)

Lame....


----------



## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 25, 2007)

My vote for best AZ rapper goes to GSS...snowman, sorry, you may have had 16s or 32s..but your schit just didn't fly...no shizzle, just fizzle


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 25, 2007)

Sooner or later there will be a devoted rap battle thread on AZ.  Word!


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> Sooner or later there will be a devoted rap battle thread on AZ.  Word!



I'm down..and SnowMan stick to pretending to know about the ski industry and away from rap..because you're rap was horrible..OldSnowboardMaine has better rhymes than you..but here goes I need to write a comeback..

Listening to Slow Jams 
Arguing with Snowman
AKA Frosty
Thinks he's the boss B
Like Tony Danza
rap isn't all about stanzas
if you rapped for food you'd be endangered like a Panda
eating Bamboo..I've got cargo pants you rock a Tu-Tu
you think you can rap cause you wrote a Hykoo
Pity the fool like Mr. T
You're mad Sonny Bono crashing into Trees
When he walks into a bar all the ladies flee
He wears pink when he goes to drink
While I flow faster than the kitchen sink or Niagara Falls
GSS has big balls not to tall and not to short..sometimes a flirt
saying how you doing..don't want to ruin this thread
excellent adventure like Bill and Ted
or Right Said Fred singing I'm too Sexy
Snowmans only action was a trick hoe saying Text me..Holla


----------



## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I'm down..and SnowMan stick to pretending to know about the ski industry and away from rap..because you're rap was horrible..OldSnowboardMaine has better rhymes than you..but here goes I need to write a comeback..
> 
> Listening to Slow Jams
> Arguing with Snowman
> ...



Your answer back was to go to your one liner book and send every throwback line at me you've come up with in the last 5 years without even bothering to try and mould it together to make any sense? I'm not even claiming to be a rapper, but atleast I stayed on topic and moulded my rhymes around every stupid bull $hit thing you've said about me today in a witty manner.


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 25, 2007)

Really a rap battle? Ok, I've got a Guiness and the game is on. This will be good.


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> Your answer back was to go to your one liner book and send every throwback line at me you've come up with in the last 5 years without even bothering to try and mould it together to make any sense? I'm not even claiming to be a rapper, but atleast I stayed on topic and moulded my rhymes around every stupid bull $hit thing you've said about me today in a witty manner.




YOU HAVE GOTTA BE KIDDING ME


Pop goes the arrogance again with Snowman.  Just like his opinin on everything to do with skiing, he of course has the better rap.  IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE WORLD YOU DON'T KNOW MORE ABOUT THAN EVERYONE?  ANYTHING THAT YOU ARE NOT BETTER AT?  I said, I'd stop responding, but I'm dumb founded, by the dumb newfoundlander.    

Steeze owned you with that rap - PERIOD.  You sounded like some, no class,  no rythm, no style, no clue, white guy from Canada in your rap

Oh, wait a minute.........


----------



## Grassi21 (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> I've discovered the best solution is simply pretend they (star, steeze et al) don't exist. They've already admitted they've never even laid their hands on a snow gun and acknowledging them only gets you a spamfest of posts full of crap. Last year it actually took about a month of snowmaking (if you're going by Calander days and not hours online) to get open. Actual snowmaking hours online prior to opening last year were probably in the neighborhood of 150.



snowman, i thought you were going to pretend that GSS didn't exist.  not busting on you.  but he sucked you right in.  holla.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> snowman, i thought you were going to pretend that GSS didn't exist?  not busting on you.  but he sucked you right in.  holla.


----------



## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> snowman, i thought you were going to pretend that GSS didn't exist.  not busting on you.  but he sucked you right in.  holla.



I thought I better give in and atleast reply to him atleast once since how he's been trying to get a response for 2 days and 40 posts. Didn't want him to feel all alone in the world and go kill himself or anything....


----------



## bobbutts (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> I've discovered stupid people will be/act stupid no matter what you do. The only way you can really deal with them is to beat them at their own game



So how did you do it?  How did you make yourself so stupid?


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 25, 2007)

bobbutts said:


> So how did you do it?  How did you make yourself so stupid?




GOOD PLAY


----------



## snowman (Oct 25, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> GOOD PLAY




I'm still waiting to critique the raps of all these reviewers? Oh yeah, you've got nothing, as usual.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> I'm still waiting to critique the raps of all these reviewers? Oh yeah, you've got nothing, as usual.





stop being a troll..:blink:


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 25, 2007)

snowman said:


> I'm still waiting to critique the raps of all these reviewers? Oh yeah, you've got nothing, as usual.



Well nobody else has made any claims about their rapping skillz. So I don't know what you're waiting for.


----------



## campgottagopee (Oct 26, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> I'm down..and SnowMan stick to pretending to know about the ski industry and away from rap..because you're rap was horrible..OldSnowboardMaine has better rhymes than you..but here goes I need to write a comeback..
> 
> Listening to Slow Jams
> Arguing with Snowman
> ...



Made me laugh again----I really need to stop reading these


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 26, 2007)

campgottagopee said:


> Made me laugh again----I really need to stop reading these



What's wrong with laughing..I have a few minutes to kill so here's one more..

Snowman thinks he's great like Lake Huron
He calls everybody a moron
That's no way to make friends
Is incontinent so he wears depends
yes an adult diaper he's a fast typer
his posts tending to be condescending
claims he blew snow that's not all he blew
his favorite movie is Curly Sue
when he walks in the room everybody says PU
MC Snowman posted up eating poutine
trolling these boards yeah that's his routine
his attempt at rap was crap while my flows are sticky as tree sap...Holla


----------



## koreshot (Oct 26, 2007)

This thread confirms three things:

1. GSS is as steezy of a rapper as he is a skier
2. Snowman is as lame as ever
3. It REALLY REALLY REALLY needs to snow so that we can be reading TRs, checking out pow pictures and planning AZ outings instead of listening to Mr. Hustle and Flow lay subpar rhymes down.


----------



## Kerovick (Oct 26, 2007)

Please Ullr, let the rapping stop and the snow start!


----------



## bvibert (Oct 26, 2007)

Kerovick said:


> Please Ullr, let the rapping stop and the snow start!



That's about the most sensible thing I've read in this thread yet...


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 26, 2007)

Kerovick said:


> Please Ullr, let the rapping stop and the snow start!



As far as this thread is concerned, there can never be enough rapping! I'm still waiting for Snowmans answer to GSS's response. Holla! :lol:


----------



## Greg (Oct 26, 2007)

The NWS point forecast for Sugarloaf at 2,942' still looks good at night starting Sunday night through Thursday:



> Sunday Night: A slight chance of rain showers before 8pm, then a slight chance of snow showers. Partly cloudy, with a low around 21. Chance of precipitation is 20%.
> 
> Monday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 36.
> 
> ...



Not as good for Bartlett, NH, but still potential depending on how agressive Peak wants to be:



> Sunday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 23.
> 
> Monday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 43.
> 
> ...



It doesn't look that promising for Mount Snow:



> Sunday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 24.
> 
> Monday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 41.
> 
> ...



Latitude is going to win it seems.


----------



## Vortex (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't see it happening.  hoping, but don't think so.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 26, 2007)

The Sugarloaf point forecast looks pretty good.  It could happen.


----------



## snowman (Oct 26, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> What's wrong with laughing..I have a few minutes to kill so here's one more..
> 
> Snowman thinks he's great like Lake Huron
> He calls everybody a moron
> ...



A little better, you must have been up all night workin' on that? 

Yes Steeze, I'm MC Snowman,
Me N Al Bundy, all members of no ma'am,
I flow sick, you flow slow man,
Come time ta shuffle you do the can can,

Kool mo dee is where I start,
I go way back,  you jus a young fart,
4 weeks ago I kissed Rhianna,
My chick saw but still no dramma,

At the club I'm V.I.P.,
You down below, jus starin' at me,
Maybe not me, perhaps Akon,
He at my table, you still wit ya mom

I like this rap stuff, it's too easy,
I gettin betta, you still steezy,
This rap is hype, you can't deny,
Unless you sit there and just lie.


----------



## snoseek (Oct 26, 2007)

the great white rap wars of 2007?


----------



## Greg (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm not much of a rapper, but I put this together. Sing it to the Brady Bunch theme:


_Here's the story of a dawg named Steezy,
Who was rappin' and was goofin' all the time.
All his posts are solid gold, hard to fathom,
He's almost twenty nine.

Here's the story of a tool named snowman,
Who was busy with some rhymes of his own.
They were lame-ass, making us all wonder,
If he just might get owned.

Till the one day when Grilled Steezy met this snowman
We all wondered who would leave with a scar.
Then this jerk suggested that they "ski-off," 
So both threw a punch and then owned Highway Star

Own Highway Star. Own Highway Star.

That's the way that they both owned Highway Star._​


----------



## snoseek (Oct 26, 2007)

:lol:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Potd


----------



## campgottagopee (Oct 26, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm not much of a rapper, but I put this together. Sing it to the Brady Bunch theme:
> 
> 
> _Here's the story of a dawg named Steezy,
> ...



And I thought GSS made me laugh----this will make ESPN Classic for sure


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 26, 2007)

snowman said:


> I'm still waiting to critique the raps of all these reviewers? Oh yeah, you've got nothing, as usual.


  fine, I'll humor you


His name is snoman
We call him frosty
Don’t much care 
When his eyes get glossy

He’s a trip, make that a dick
Braggin’ he’s rich, 
Lookin’ like a prick
All Azer’s do is simply wish he’d quit

I don’t mind though
Sit back and let him go
Laughin’ to myself as his ego grows

It’s comic, him thinking he’s cronic
Boy needs to relax with a gin and tonic
And get real ya’ll
It hurts to watch him fall
Playin’ the fool like a know it all

So, four years yo
That’s how long he was making snow
Talkin like a pro
We all know what type of gun 
That mr frosty blows

So that’s it and that’s all
Gonna walk off tall
I’ll be nice
this ain’t worth doin’ twice
And with that 

HEY FROSTY! GET A F***IN’ LIFE!


----------



## Greg (Oct 26, 2007)

5th most popular thread in the skiing forum now. Dipiro's thread is now in jeopardy. Must be all the raps.


----------



## Greg (Oct 26, 2007)

Greg said:


> The NWS point forecast for Sugarloaf at 2,942' still looks good at night starting Sunday night through Thursday



The latest look has trended even colder.



> Sunday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 16. Northwest wind between 13 and 15 mph.
> 
> Monday: Sunny, with a high near 38.
> 
> ...



Bartlett looks better too:



> Sunday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 18. Northwest wind between 9 and 11 mph.
> 
> Monday: Sunny, with a high near 44.
> 
> ...



Keep up the raps, guys. It's working!


----------



## snowman (Oct 26, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm not much of a rapper, but I put this together. Sing it to the Brady Bunch theme:
> 
> 
> _Here's the story of a dawg named Steezy,
> ...



I like this one. I think It would be premium if you had rapped it to yourself before you posted it. It loses flow here and there..like line 2 you need to lose "and was goofin". If you try to rap/sing it as is, it just doesn't flow. That's the problem with steezies too. He's got some good lines here and there, but it just doesn't all flow together. I know it doesn't have to rhyme to flow....but if you just can't rap or sing it however hard you try, there's obviously something wrong. I heard a lot of famous artists tell the same story of how most hit songs/raps are written in 5 minutes, like these (I hope). But, then they pick them apart for a few hours after...changing this and that. Then they come back to it a week later and pick at it some more. Then tehy come back to it a month later, and if they still like it, they go with it.


----------



## Greg (Oct 26, 2007)

snowman said:


> I like this one. I think It would be premium if you had rapped it to yourself before you posted it. It loses flow here and there..like line 2 you need to lose "and was goofin". If you try to rap/sing it as is, it just doesn't flow. That's the problem with steezies too. He's got some good lines here and there, but it just doesn't all flow together. I know it doesn't have to rhyme to flow....but if you just can't rap or sing it however hard you try, there's obviously something wrong. I heard a lot of famous artists tell the same story of how most hit songs/raps are written in 5 minutes, like these (I hope). But, then they pick them apart for a few hours after...changing this and that. Then they come back to it a week later and pick at it some more. Then tehy come back to it a month later, and if they still like it, they go with it.



Like I said, you're supposed to sing it to the Brady Bunch theme. Oh yeah, you're Canadian... Let me help you out:



Try it again, genius... :roll:


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 26, 2007)

snowman said:


> I like this one. I think It would be premium if you had rapped it to yourself before you posted it. It loses flow here and there..like line 2 you need to lose "and was goofin". If you try to rap/sing it as is, it just doesn't flow. That's the problem with steezies too. He's got some good lines here and there, but it just doesn't all flow together. I know it doesn't have to rhyme to flow....but if you just can't rap or sing it however hard you try, there's obviously something wrong. I heard a lot of famous artists tell the same story of how most hit songs/raps are written in 5 minutes, like these (I hope). But, then they pick them apart for a few hours after...changing this and that. Then they come back to it a week later and pick at it some more. Then tehy come back to it a month later, and if they still like it, they go with it.




Frosty, he clearly said it wasn't a rap.  If you sing it to the Brady bunch theme song, it flows pretty much perfectly.  Nice try at being Dr Dre though


----------



## eastcoastpowderhound (Oct 26, 2007)

who needs pay per view when we've got the great white throwdown!!??  Fkin great schit...eminem called, he wants his momma's rhymes back.

Ps.  Lemme know when I can download this schit from itunes!


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 26, 2007)

snowman said:


> A little better, you must have been up all night workin' on that?
> 
> Yes Steeze, I'm MC Snowman,
> Me N Al Bundy, all members of no ma'am,
> ...




Haha..O.K. finally a response..

Snowman chills with Al Bundy selling shoes
When it comes to rap battles he'll lose
Drink booze
or slam your head into a wall
Frostys raps make you want to fall
off a bridge like a game of cards
knowing about snowmaking is not hard
maybe they'll blow the first week in November
It's all good Mother Nature is the sender
of colder weather when it comes to balls it's got to be tether
on a rope..yes my raps are dope and sick
I rock an afro-pick and a bic lighter 
making bon fires and eating Bon Bons with Peggy Bundy
cause Al has a shoe sale
Snowman is blind he needs to learn braille
I bet he never hit a rail or a butterbox..
He thinks he's mad steezy with 2 pairs of ski socks
mad itchy like Chicken pox..a wannabe be rapper with a midget on his jock..


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 26, 2007)

Greg said:


> I'm not much of a rapper, but I put this together. Sing it to the Brady Bunch theme:
> 
> 
> _Here's the story of a dawg named Steezy,
> ...




Nice Greg is definitely a child of the 80s..yes he watched Brady Bunch in re-runs..not live..like the 40 somethings on here..lol


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 26, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> fine, I'll humor you
> 
> 
> His name is snoman
> ...




Mad props..I think it's great..you flow ridiculous yo..


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 26, 2007)

Greg said:


> 5th most popular thread in the skiing forum now. Dipiro's thread is now in jeopardy. Must be all the raps.



Teton Gravity has nothing on AZ...


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 26, 2007)

snowman said:


> I like this one. I think It would be premium if you had rapped it to yourself before you posted it. It loses flow here and there..like line 2 you need to lose "and was goofin". If you try to rap/sing it as is, it just doesn't flow. That's the problem with steezies too. He's got some good lines here and there, but it just doesn't all flow together. I know it doesn't have to rhyme to flow....but if you just can't rap or sing it however hard you try, there's obviously something wrong. I heard a lot of famous artists tell the same story of how most hit songs/raps are written in 5 minutes, like these (I hope). But, then they pick them apart for a few hours after...changing this and that. Then they come back to it a week later and pick at it some more. Then tehy come back to it a month later, and if they still like it, they go with it.




Wait are you some hip-hop producer???  I Challenge you to a rap battle this season and somebody can record it to see what the AZs thing...


----------



## snowman (Oct 26, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Wait are you some hip-hop producer???  I Challenge you to a rap battle this season and somebody can record it to see what the AZs thing...



I would, but....according to Highwaystar, there will be nothing left of me after the ski off? :blink:


----------



## snowman (Oct 26, 2007)

Greg said:


> Like I said, you're supposed to sing it to the Brady Bunch theme. Oh yeah, you're Canadian... Let me help you out:
> 
> 
> 
> Try it again, genius... :roll:



Admittedly I forgot just how f$Eked up and off balance that song was. It's like steezy wrote it or something. :flag:


----------



## bobbutts (Oct 26, 2007)

someone post an mp3 .. you guy's can put it down on paper but can you flow on the mic?


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 26, 2007)

you guy's rap
is a whole lotta crap

take it to the head
or better yet
make your own thread


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 26, 2007)

ski_resort_observer said:


> you guy's rap
> is a whole lotta crap
> 
> take it to the head
> ...



But you see, SRO
what you don't know
is that we wanna make the thread
keep on movin' ahead.
Just a few more posts,
we're gettin' close,
we can almost boast,
our thread's the most grandiose.
If you don't like what you see,
here's my imperial decree:
head back to skiMRV,
where there ain't no emcee.

:wink:

I can rhyme, but I sure as hell can't rap, lol

SRO... you asked for it :wink:


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 26, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> But you see, SRO
> what you don't know
> is that we wanna make the thread
> keep on movin' ahead.
> ...



You taking a poetry class? :wink: I can see it now...a bunch of tough snowmakers comparing prose at 3AM  when they should be hucking hose for the next round.

Unfortunately, skiMRV is dead as a doornail right now. If it wasn't for Lostone replying to his own posts and the both of us posting pics we are talking about 3 maybe four posts a week over there....:wink:

Hey, got an idea to pick things up over there. You post the VSAA resort opening schedule, the one that says Mt Ellen opens first and title the thread..."change of plans". I think that would pick things up, for sure. :lol:


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 27, 2007)

A "ski off" challenge has morphed into a rap off? This is comedy. I needed a laugh this morning, what with all the rain, so I thought "hey, why not get caught up on the last 100 posts in the Late October Snowmaking thread? What a riot. I really don't have anything to add but figured I could help get this thread closer to the top three all time.


----------



## kcyanks1 (Oct 27, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> A "ski off" challenge has morphed into a rap off? This is comedy. I needed a laugh this morning, what with all the rain, so I thought "hey, why not get caught up on the last 100 posts in the Late October Snowmaking thread? What a riot. I really don't have anything to add but figured I could help get this thread closer to the top three all time.



Because (at the time I'm posting), you really need to improve upon your 5,423 posts


----------



## bvibert (Oct 27, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> A "ski off" challenge has morphed into a rap off? This is comedy. I needed a laugh this morning, what with all the rain, so I thought "hey, why not get caught up on the last 100 posts in the Late October Snowmaking thread? What a riot. I really don't have anything to add but figured I could help get this thread closer to the top three all time.



57 posts away from top three....


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 27, 2007)

bvibert said:


> 57 posts away from top three....





Bump..it's also raining in my hood..lots of water for the snowmaking ponds...Holla


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 27, 2007)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> Bump..it's also raining in my hood..lots of water for the snowmaking ponds...Holla



That's one way to look at it. I guess you're a glass (pond) half-full kinda guy. 

This is also the front that's finally pushing the some cold air in. It's supposed to be in the high 20's here Sunday night, so maybe even Wachusett can get the guns out for a few nights next week. I'd be happy if they can open up before T-day.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 27, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> That's one way to look at it. I guess you're a glass (pond) half-full kinda guy.
> 
> This is also the front that's finally pushing the some cold air in. It's supposed to be in the high 20's here Sunday night, so maybe even Wachusett can get the guns out for a few nights next week. I'd be happy if they can open up before T-day.



I'm an optimist fo sure..and I typically don't get along with pessimists..anyway I think I'm going to look for new ski boots this afternoon..any skiing for me before Thanksgiving is bonus since last season my first day out was the day after Thanksgiving...but November 10th somewhere would be oh so nice..


----------



## tcharron (Oct 27, 2007)

Greg said:


> Check out this  Attitash has top to bottom fan guns on Illusion over at Bear Peak. If this *forecast* hold true, we may very well see Attitash emerge as the first with a T2B run. Maybe as soon as next weekend.



Pretty much confirmed.  If temps end up below freezing, Attitash will prolly start blowing snow, according to Chris over at Crotched.  Crotched unfortunately will prolly have to wait a week or more after that, I suspect they may be shy from the sheer amount of melt from early season last year.


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm kinda thinking the forecasted warm-up/rain on Thursday will make some of the more southern areas hold off until next weekend. Then, hopefully, things should really get going.


----------



## tcharron (Oct 27, 2007)

snowman said:


> Incorrect. There are 3 or 4 people on here I converse at eye level with. It's my responses to antagonists and know-it-all's that you're referencing.



So by inference, you look down on absolutely everyone else.


----------



## tcharron (Oct 27, 2007)

snowman said:


> You even taught me a fact or 2 with that one. My knowledge of snowmaking is mostly based on study of the actual product produced at every temperature and RH under the sun (and moon), rather than sitting in a classroom having what's really going on explained to me. Distilled water doesn't freeze until -40?? That immediately set me to thinking. Why isn't distilled water used for windsheild wash??



Because even though it wont freeze, it will supercool.  And as soon as a contaminant is exposed, it will IMMEDITALY freeze onto it.  Put it on your windshield in the air, and it'll freeze.


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 27, 2007)

Just got comfirnmation that the Bush will start blowing snow on Sunday night, sounds like most everyone with an early to mid November opening and has the weather conditions will be.  Yahoooooo! Lets see some pics although I bet all the resort websites will have them.


----------



## tcharron (Oct 27, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> No, Al Gore invented skiing, not snowmaking.  Get it right.



Wasn't that Dan Q?


----------



## Greg (Oct 27, 2007)

tcharron said:


> Pretty much confirmed.  If temps end up below freezing, Attitash will prolly start blowing snow, according to Chris over at Crotched.  Crotched unfortunately will prolly have to wait a week or more after that, I suspect they may be shy from the sheer amount of melt from early season last year.





ski_resort_observer said:


> Just got comfirnmation that the Bush will start blowing snow on Sunday night, sounds like most everyone with an early to mid November opening and has the weather conditions will be.  Yahoooooo! Lets see some pics although I bet all the resort websites will have them.



Monday morning should be a flurry of press releases to welcome the start of the snowmaking season. Along with the changeover to the blue theme likely, what better way to start the week?

To all the naysayers.....okay, really just you, snowman, I say a big effin *TOLD YOU SO*! Let's not forget who started this classic of a thread five days ago. No need to thank me... :lol:


----------



## Vortex (Oct 27, 2007)

I was hoping, but up and down cause of all the conflicting weather reports. Snow making is the 1st step.  Then we need the lifts to run. cancelled my next weekend plans (other thank kids football) to be free to ski.


----------



## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Oct 27, 2007)

Greg said:


> Monday morning should be a flurry of press releases to welcome the start of the snowmaking season. Along with the changeover to the blue theme likely, what better way to start the week?
> 
> To all the naysayers.....okay, really just you, snowman, I say a big effin *TOLD YOU SO*! Let's not forget who started this classic of a thread five days ago. No need to thank me... :lol:




Wow I can't wait for Monday morning..O.K. time to check more forecasts..


----------



## Justin10 (Oct 27, 2007)

The NWS forecasts for Loon and Cannon look pretty solid as well.  The exception might be tuesday/wednesday night with temps around 29-30 degrees at about 2,500ft.  Loon is still set for beginning on Nov. 1st, but could always start a little earlier if the conditions are good enough.  I wouldnt expect Cannon to start til maybe next weekend


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 27, 2007)

Cannon won't start for a while longer, way too early for them.


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Oct 27, 2007)

As I just posted over on skiMRV (re:Sugarbush making snow Sunday night):

Temps are looking good right now. Low of 15 is certainly nice. Of course, the RH is supposed to be between 90 and 100% the whole time. But 15 degrees with 100% RH is still 15 degrees wet bulb. That would still be fantastic snowmaking.

Looks like they'll have startup temps by around 9:00PM Sunday. Once they're started, based on the NWS weather graph (3000' forecast), they should be able to blow straight through until around 6:00AM Tuesday morning.


----------



## Justin10 (Oct 27, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> Cannon won't start for a while longer, way too early for them.



Yeah, that is true...wishful thinking.

Looking at Loons forecast more, the forecasts for tuesday and wednesday night are still looking pretty sketchy.  Soon after that hopefully the are good to go.  They're hoping for an opening day of Nov. 21st...just in time for Thanksgiving


----------



## snowman (Oct 27, 2007)

BushMogulMaster said:


> As I just posted over on skiMRV (re:Sugarbush making snow Sunday night):
> 
> Temps are looking good right now. Low of 15 is certainly nice. Of course, the RH is supposed to be between 90 and 100% the whole time. But 15 degrees with 100% RH is still 15 degrees wet bulb. That would still be fantastic snowmaking.
> 
> Looks like they'll have startup temps by around 9:00PM Sunday. Once they're started, based on the NWS weather graph (3000' forecast), they should be able to blow straight through until around 6:00AM Tuesday morning.



What does the 3000 foot forecast look like for over there? It looks crappy for Sugarloaf. :-(


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Oct 27, 2007)

If the forecast temps do not pan out then all bets are off......we are getting more rain here at the Bush than was predicted so it is not a sure thing quite yet. It all depends on mother nature, as usual.


----------



## snowman (Oct 27, 2007)

Must....save....dying.....superthread.... :lol:


----------



## tcharron (Oct 27, 2007)

snowman said:


> Must....save....dying.....superthread.... :lol:



Which thread?  The one that's gone BACK on topic, aka, not arguing with you, or the one that was..

Wait, arguing with you...


----------



## snowman (Oct 27, 2007)

tcharron said:


> Which thread?  The one that's gone BACK on topic, aka, not arguing with you, or the one that was..
> 
> Wait, arguing with you...



I don't know if you noticed or not, but threads I become involved with automatically have 5X to 10X as many pages due to my winning personality. This one seems to have died out because I haven't called anyone stupid in it for atleast 24 hours.. :lol:


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## koreshot (Oct 29, 2007)

In that case, in the interest of keeping the thread going, I volunteer Marc.

Go for it Snowman...


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## Vortex (Oct 29, 2007)

http://www.wskitv.com/quadcam.shtml

some progress was made


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## dmc (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm headed to Summit county next week to make some turns..

I can stand this anymore...


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## snowman (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm going Dec 3, and even by then it's still looking possible that will be the only place to get in any vert on multiple trails. :-(


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## snoseek (Oct 29, 2007)

me too.


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