# Comfort fit vs. performance fit.



## kingslug (Feb 26, 2007)

I bought new Nordica boots this Xmas and within about 3 weeks they where packed out. Tried some self stick thick foam around the liner, still no good. I was down to the last buckle and felt that they where a total wash. talked to the owner of the shop and set up an appointment  to see what he could do. He took one look at the foam I had put in and figured we had a real prob. After about 1/2 hour of measuring and trying on different boots he said that I needed a performance fit. looks like I've been skiing on boots 1 size to big. Always wondered why my tips would wobble around unless I really stood on them. So after owning these things for 2 months he takes them back and fits me with a brand new pair 1 size smaller. Gets them adjusted, my bindings adjusted, all around closing time. Incredible that he would do this. $500.00 boots and he takes them back no prob. Always had trouble in the moguls and now I know why. Just spent the past 2 days non stop bump skiing like I never did before. The difference is incredible. Took a little time to get used to the stiffness though. Sundown Ski and Surf in Levittown Long Island, can't say enough good about them. Wonder how many people might be having the same prob. I guess you have to ask for this and not just let someone assume what you want.


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## riverc0il (Feb 26, 2007)

sounds like you got some great service. way to spread around the good vibes. i am going to guess you did not get fitted in the shop when you bought the boots?

there really is only one fit for a boot. when you first get boots, they should be snug. my current pair of boots was fitted so the buckles were only going to the first notch on the boot. four years later, no pack out at all and still using the same notches... just turned the adjustable buckles up a few times for ever so slight adjustments. performance fit IS comfort fit, IMO. when boots fit and ski well, they are comfortable. performance does not mean pain.


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## MarkC (Feb 26, 2007)

Sundown is one of the last great shops on long island.  They will really go out of their way to take care of you.


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## NHpowderhound (Feb 26, 2007)

I love the performance of my Atomic boots but getting them on and off is a friggin nightmare. They fit well when they are on but it's a swearfest when I put em on. Lots of huffing and puffing too.

((*
*))NHPH


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## hammer (Feb 26, 2007)

My size 25 Tecnicas are easier to put on and now feel more comfortable than my old size 27 Solomons...go figure.

At least I've seen the light on going with a "performance fit"...even though there have been adjustments (and yes, some discomfort and pain).

Sounds like you ultimately had a good experience...did the shop have an advertised "fit guarantee"?  If so, it's great that they owned up to it.


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## kingslug (Feb 26, 2007)

I did buy them there but the kid was pretty young and might not have been a skier. his first assumption was that i skied a couple days a year. I said sure, about 30. Blank stare. I knew what I wanted, just didn't know about that kind of fit. Sucks that I've been skiing like this for years. If I had only known.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 26, 2007)

Ugg, I have this problem right now. I got new Nordica's last year after having Tecnica's for years. My Tecnica's were size 27 and fit great (the shell cracked after 8 years of use), so I started with 27's in the Nordica's and they fit great in the shop. My wife and 3 year old were  there distracting me, so I didn't spend as much time with them as I should have. Needless to say a Nordica 27 is not the same as a Tecnica 27. I got custom foot beds and built up the sole insert some which has helped a bit. So now I'm planning on getting new boots for next season. :smash:


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 26, 2007)

kingslug said:


> I bought new Nordica boots





wa-loaf said:


> I got new Nordica's last year



Which ones?


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## wa-loaf (Feb 26, 2007)

Speed Machine 10's


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 26, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Speed Machine 10's



The SM series offers a nice compromise between performance and comfort.

If you don't mind me asking, what type of terrain do you like to ski, what level skier do you consider yourself and what are you looking for out of a boot?

I know a bit about Nordica boots and I'd be glad to give you my insight for what, if anything, it might be worth to you for buying new boots that fit next season. If not no problem.


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## Dr. NO (Feb 26, 2007)

kingslug said:


> I bought new Nordica boots this Xmas and within about 3 weeks they where packed out. Tried some self stick thick foam around the liner, still no good. I was down to the last buckle and felt that they where a total wash. talked to the owner of the shop and set up an appointment  to see what he could do. He took one look at the foam I had put in and figured we had a real prob. After about 1/2 hour of measuring and trying on different boots he said that I needed a performance fit. looks like I've been skiing on boots 1 size to big. Always wondered why my tips would wobble around unless I really stood on them. So after owning these things for 2 months he takes them back and fits me with a brand new pair 1 size smaller. Gets them adjusted, my bindings adjusted, all around closing time. Incredible that he would do this. $500.00 boots and he takes them back no prob. Always had trouble in the moguls and now I know why. Just spent the past 2 days non stop bump skiing like I never did before. The difference is incredible. Took a little time to get used to the stiffness though. Sundown Ski and Surf in Levittown Long Island, can't say enough good about them. Wonder how many people might be having the same prob. I guess you have to ask for this and not just let someone assume what you want.



I read your first few sentences and said "sold you the wrong size boot" immediately. My Nordica boots, all 5 pair so far, have been 1 1/2 sizes smaller than my shoes. Can't get them on or off, especailly off when cold, but once on they fit like a slipper. If the boot feels expanded and too big after a few hours, it is too big. My foot shrinks when it gets cold and even then the boot I have feels too loose, but still works just fine.

Glad your shop stood behind the fit and got you a new boot. Bet you will go back if the price is right.

Oh, my 5 pair, 4 Grand Prix GS Race and one Dobermann Race Plug. Hard as rocks and one toe navigation. Move the big toe and the skis follow immediately.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 26, 2007)

This is the reason one should take the time and fimd a good bootfitter.....even if you have to travel to one its worth it.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 26, 2007)

Type III - I've been skiing since about 3. I like bumps, crud and trees and I also do night league racing at Wachusett. These days I also stand around a lot teaching my 3yr old to ski.

It's mostly my fault in picking the wrong size. I was distracted and didn't pay attention to things I should have known better. I'm going to spend some time this spring trying on several brands and then look for deals this summer and fall. I'm leaning on going back to Tecnica either the Magma or Mangnesium, but definitly want to spend more time with them first.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 26, 2007)

ALLSKIING said:


> This is the reason one should take the time and fimd a good bootfitter.....even if you have to travel to one its worth it.



This is true of course. Once you have boots fitted and adjusted professionally you'll never go any other way. That said, only a small portion of skiers use a pro fitter. 

Even those who frequent forums like this, people who consider themselves hardcore skiers, I'd wager less then 20%.


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 26, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> Type III - I've been skiing since about 3. I like bumps, crud and trees and I also do night league racing at Wachusett. These days I also stand around a lot teaching my 3yr old to ski.



Your skill level and the type of skiing you do overmatches the SM 10's by quite a bit. Don't go sour on Nordica because you bought the wrong boot in the wrong size.;-) 

Consider the Dobbie Pro 130, Aggressor WC 130 (the 130 flex is new for 07/08) or the Blower (basically the same boot as the Hot Rod Top Fuel, they changeed the names in that series for next season).

I ski the Dobbie Pro 130's this season and I'm the same type of skier as you. I'm a street shoe size 9 and ski a size UK 6. I've been back to the fitter 3 times to have them tweeked and now they are perfect. If you truly want performance you can't take the easy way out, you need to put the work in.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 26, 2007)

> Don't go sour on Nordica because you bought the wrong boot in the wrong size



I'm not, actually the Nordica is very comfortable. I'm just not sure if that's because it's too big or the right shape for my feet! I've got my heel locked down nicely now, but there's just way too much room in the forefoot/toe area.

Are you a Nordica rep or just a big fan? ;-)


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## riverc0il (Feb 27, 2007)

highpeaksdrifter said:


> Your skill level and the type of skiing you do overmatches the SM 10's by quite a bit. Don't go sour on Nordica because you bought the wrong boot in the wrong size.;-)
> 
> Consider the Dobbie Pro 130, Aggressor WC 130 (the 130 flex is new for 07/08) or the Blower (basically the same boot as the Hot Rod Top Fuel, they changeed the names in that series for next season).
> 
> I ski the Dobbie Pro 130's this season and I'm the same type of skier as you. I'm a street shoe size 9 and ski a size UK 6. I've been back to the fitter 3 times to have them tweeked and now they are perfect. If you truly want performance you can't take the easy way out, you need to put the work in.


whoa, HPD. you just made a boot recommendation without knowing some important information like what this guy's feet look like and his weight. also, 130 flex for someone that likes powder and trees maybe be a bit aggressive even though he races beer league (but that could depend a lot on weight). as a natural snow only skier, except during the early season, i am actually considering stepping my flex down from the current boot's 110 flex (for the record, i am 6'1" and 210 lbs). then again, also important to remember different manufacturers have different flex scales.

it is also important to consider not only is every boot manufacturer different fit, but different lines from the same manufacturer fit differently. try on as many as you can. if you want into a shop to get fitted for a boot, if the shop tech doesn't bring back at least three or four boots for you to try and compare based on your description of your skiing and needs, run away.


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## hammer (Feb 27, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> I'm not, actually the Nordica is very comfortable. I'm just not sure if that's because it's too big or the right shape for my feet! I've got my heel locked down nicely now, but there's just way too much room in the forefoot/toe area.
> 
> Are you a Nordica rep or just a big fan? ;-)


I had the same problem with Nordicas and Tecnica Ventos...finally went with a Tecnica Diablo because there was less room in the toe box.

This is an area where having a professional bootfitter involved helps...Jeff Bokum was able to point me in the right direction based on my foot shape.  Not sure if a salesperson in a ski shop would be able to always do the same.


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## hammer (Feb 27, 2007)

uphillklimber said:


> Sounds like you and I had the same problem. Glad they took your boots back. They wouldn't take mine back. Anyone need a pair of Nordicas, 27.5????
> 
> Anyways, I learned of bootfitters here and went to see Jeff Bokum. He set me up with boots almost 2 sizes smaller. I can suddenly ski deep powder, do what I want and direct my skiis whereever I choose. My feet used to slop around in boots, and my skiis would get yanked around by an inch of powder and I would buy it. Not anymore.
> 
> Get thee to a boot fitter. Allow me to recommend Jeff Bokum.


How old are the Nordicas?  Just wondering why the shop wouldn't take them back...

Bootfitting lessons can be expensive sometimes...:???:


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 27, 2007)

Sundow is ok, i definatly would not trust them to fit me properly for boots...last time i checked none of them were master-fitters...dont let them tune your skis, they do an awful job....i hand tune my own skis, but i had to drop my Atomic M10's off to them to check a crack in my core to see if we could do a return to Atomic, I specificly told them not to tune my skis....so what did they do??? they threw some PTEX over the crack (which obivously wont fix a cracked core) and they tuned them....when i picked them up i knew instantly they screwed up my edges so i asked what degrees they tuned these at....i got "uhhhh  i dunno, what ever the machine was set at....i dont know what atomics are supposed to be"...if you want proper fitting boots head up north to a master boot fitter....both my wife and i had great experiences with Northern Ski Works up on the K Access Road....Hal is our man up there.....only thing i'd get from Sundown is some hand warmers


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## highpeaksdrifter (Feb 27, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> whoa, HPD. you just made a boot recommendation without knowing some important information .



Whoa yourself there Oil, I think you read what you wanted to read instead of what I wrote. I never recommended a boot. I listed 3 boots that a skier of Wa-loaf's ability might *consider.*

con·sid·er  (kn-sdr)
v.intr.
To think carefully; reflect: Give me time to consider.




wa-loaf said:


> Are you a Nordica rep or just a big fan? ;-)



Both


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## wa-loaf (Feb 27, 2007)

Can anyone recomend a shop in the North Central Mass area that has a big boot selection? Not too concerned about the experience of the sales people, despite my last experience i do know what I'm doing and I just want someplace I can try on a lot of boots.

I've always gotten footbeds and some in shop fitting, but this time I'll seek out a master bootfitter. :grin:

Oh, and if Highpeaks drifter has any extra shop/pro forms, I'll look extra hard at Nordicas! :wink:


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## Greg (Feb 27, 2007)

wa-loaf said:


> I've always gotten footbeds and some in shop fitting, but this time I'll seek out a master bootfitter. :grin:



Make the short dirve to Concord, NH and see *Jeff Bokum*.


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## hammer (Feb 27, 2007)

Greg said:


> Make the short dirve to Concord, NH and see *Jeff Bokum*.


Just to add to Greg's suggestion...if you haven't purchased boots already, it would be a good idea to see him first so that he could steer you towards the brand/model of boot that will fit you best.


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## drjeff (Feb 27, 2007)

The only reccomendations I'd make about getting new boots, is #1 DON'T go in with any pre-concieved notions about getting a particular brand/model, even if you've had a certain brand/model before the liners/shells amost always "evolve" a bit with each passing year #2 expect to spend ATLEAST a hour in the shop trying on boots/getting fit/getting adjustmenst made #3 a reputable boot fitter is worth the extra drive time to get to them #4 in general, your shell size will be between 1 and 3 sizes smaller than your street shoe size. #5 Expect to have to go back to the shop for an often minor adjustment or two after some on snow hill time,  since often what feels great in the shop at 70 degrees and minor body movement might need some adjustments after using them at 20 degrees with alot of body movements #6 Don't be suprised to see some sudden improvement in your skiing ability with the new, properly fitting boots!


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## hammer (Feb 27, 2007)

uphillklimber said:


> They were a couple seasons old, about 3 dozen days on them.


You got more days in your old boots than I did in mine...


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## drjeff (Feb 28, 2007)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> both my wife and i had great experiences with Northern Ski Works up on the K Access Road....Hal is our man up there.....only thing i'd get from Sundown is some hand warmers



I'll second that reccomendation about Northern and Hal!  He has my feet real happy in my Lange's   :beer:


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## kingslug (Feb 28, 2007)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> Sundow is ok, i definatly would not trust them to fit me properly for boots...last time i checked none of them were master-fitters...dont let them tune your skis, they do an awful job....i hand tune my own skis, but i had to drop my Atomic M10's off to them to check a crack in my core to see if we could do a return to Atomic, I specificly told them not to tune my skis....so what did they do??? they threw some PTEX over the crack (which obivously wont fix a cracked core) and they tuned them....when i picked them up i knew instantly they screwed up my edges so i asked what degrees they tuned these at....i got "uhhhh  i dunno, what ever the machine was set at....i dont know what atomics are supposed to be"...if you want proper fitting boots head up north to a master boot fitter....both my wife and i had great experiences with Northern Ski Works up on the K Access Road....Hal is our man up there.....only thing i'd get from Sundown is some hand warmers



I pretty much only trust the owner Richard. He wasn't there when I bought them but considering that he took them back and got me back on the right track, I can't complain. As far as tuning goes, I haven't noticed a problem. 
The boots I'm in now are Beast 12's. I set them on soft because i have limited flexion in my achilles tendons. On hard I just can't turn them as quick. An amazing improvement over the wrong size ones for sure. Have to see how I handle the ice bumps now. Maybe Clair's won't be such a slide for life now as well. My slis are a little soft for ice though. Crossmax pilot 10's with a lot of turns on them.


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## bigbog (Mar 3, 2007)

NHpowderhound said:


> I love the performance of my Atomic boots but getting them on and off is a friggin nightmare. They fit well when they are on but it's a swearfest when I put em on. Lots of huffing and puffing too......((*
> *))NHPH


 But a great fit in the heel pocket I bet...*NHPH*.  Blasted Atomic!, they start with #25 shell...:angry: (one shellsize larger than my fav size..)


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