# Propane for heating



## ctenidae (Sep 1, 2011)

Random question- Anyone use propane to heat their house in the winter? What kind of prices are they offering for locking in or paing the full season up front?


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## drjeff (Sep 1, 2011)

ctenidae said:


> Random question- Anyone use propane to heat their house in the winter? What kind of prices are they offering for locking in or paing the full season up front?



My place in VT is propane heated.  Our entire roughly 240 unit townhome complex gets a bulk rate from Ostermann Propane.  My roughly 1800 sq ft, 2 floor unit, which is typically occupied 3 days a week with the thermostats set at 68 degrees and then at 55 when we're not there was running about $200-300 a month depending on how much we did (or didn't) fire up the hottub(those 200+ gallons of water use a bunch of energy to keep it around 102 degrees!)

Can't give you any info about a pre pay/lock in since we're all through our homeowners association


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## Glenn (Sep 1, 2011)

We use propane in VT through Suburban Propane. We just did a pre-buy a few weeks back. Or maybe it was in July. I'll have to check....

Looks like we locked in for $3.7999 per gallon. We paid for what we need up front. We still have a credit from last year, so I'm not 100% sure how much we use without calculating. We have a large Rinnai heater (Thnk of it as a mini furnace that's mounted to the wall) that heats the house just fine when we're not there. We suppliment with baseboard electric in the utility room where the pipes are located. When we're there on the weekends, the wood stove takes over, with the Rinnai kicking on a handful of times (mainly at night).


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## Nick (Sep 1, 2011)

My neighbors up the road have propane. Not sure how well it works vs. oil - they seem happy though. I think these things fluctuate all the time with what is cheaper. 

Is a gallon of propane provide the same energy as a gallon of oil?


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## ctenidae (Sep 1, 2011)

Nick said:


> My neighbors up the road have propane. Not sure how well it works vs. oil - they seem happy though. I think these things fluctuate all the time with what is cheaper.
> 
> Is a gallon of propane provide the same energy as a gallon of oil?



I think the conversion is .66 oil equals 1 propane, or something similar. For the past few years, at least since oil ran up over $100 in 2008, propane is the second most expensive heating method behind electricity (and even more than electricity according to some figures).

Interestingly, the EIA doesn't track residential propane prices from May to September.


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## kickstand (Sep 1, 2011)

My place in NH uses propane.  I don't have a problem with it, for the most part.  I get it thru White Mountain Oil and Propane.  They offer price cap plans, a plan where you pay what they estimate what you would use over the whole year versus the 6 months you actually get deliveries, and a small discount if you have auto-pay to a CC set up.

My issue is more that my house hemorrhages heat.  My bills for 09-10 had many gallons, but a decent rate.  Last season, we put up plastic around the windows and stuff.  The gallons were down, but the price was up about $0.40/gal over the previous year, so it was a wash.  Hopefully I can find some more ways to conserve heat.


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## Geoff (Sep 6, 2011)

uphillklimber said:


> One benefit of propane iover oil is you don't have the yearly $200 cleaning bill that oil has.



Vermont state law requires that all furnaces and boilers in multi-dwelling units (condos) be serviced every two years.


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## nmashburn (Oct 23, 2014)

Sorry in advance for the necro posting, but I prefer to not clutter with new threads about existing topics. 

I was curious, since some of you seem to also use propane, if any of you would find this propane monitoring device useful?  

Full disclosure here, that handsome nerd in the video is me.  Not trying to sell stuff here either.  My guess is that you can help me with the product.

I have a ski cabin in Campton, NH which I heat with propane.  Last winter, I found frozen pipes at my place after a day of abandoned-country at Tenney Mountain.  My propane supplier had let me run out of propane, so I created this device to prevent it from happening again.  Would this be something any of you found useful?  Why or why not?  Thanks in advance for the feedback!


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't heat with propane so I'm not personaly interested but a interesting product.
What is the cost for one of them? 
Lkme I said I do jot heat with propane so I am not very familar with it. I do BBQ though, and every tank I have used for as far as I can remember has a small gauge on it showing my level. Do he big tanks that homes use not have these?


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## nmashburn (Oct 23, 2014)

The large propane tanks used for home heating, cooking, water heating, etc. usually have a small gauge on them.  But they can be buried under snow, or really inconvenient to go check for other reasons.  If I made a similar device for an oil tank, would that be helpful for anyone that doesn't heat with propane?


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## Geoff (Oct 23, 2014)

My bulk propane contract rate at Killington went up quite a bit from last year.   My townhouse is metered off a common tank.   It had been $1.79 per gallon and it's now in $1.99.     Still a heck of a lot cheaper than heating oil.   I sure hope the gas pipeline from Burlington to Rutland gets built and then gets run up over the pass to Killington.   It's fairly high density housing so it makes huge sense.


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## nmashburn (Oct 23, 2014)

Anything near $2 is a pretty good rate these days, but I guess your getting that based on big volumes.  I just paid $2.79 for 400 gallons in NH, but that took extra work.  

If you're feeding of a common tank, I am guessing your supplier is extra motivated to keep tabs on your level.  Does he have a remote monitor or is he just using the weather as a gauge?


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## skiNEwhere (Oct 23, 2014)

It's a little late now, but would you consider heating with firewood in the future? Not sure if there are gov't regulation prohibiting or limiting its use in CT, but you can save quite a bit of money. Right now I am about 75% firewood, 25% propane.


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## nmashburn (Oct 23, 2014)

Wood burning in New England is really increasing.  VT just increased incentives for people to use pellet stoves.  Personally, I am 50/50 wood and propane, burning 2-3 cords per year.

I'd guess that some folks on here have ski houses where they burn wood when they are there, but use propane to keep their house to 40 deg F or so when they are away.  Those people are the ones that I assume wanted the propane monitor.


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## Not Sure (Oct 24, 2014)

Geoff said:


> My bulk propane contract rate at Killington went up quite a bit from last year.   My townhouse is metered off a common tank.   It had been $1.79 per gallon and it's now in $1.99.     Still a heck of a lot cheaper than heating oil.   I sure hope the gas pipeline from Burlington to Rutland gets built and then gets run up over the pass to Killington.   It's fairly high density housing so it makes huge sense.



$2.00 for propane isn't bad , Comparing propane and oil isn't a direct comparison , Propane has 90K BTU"s per gallon, Oil has 138K BTU's. Propane is eazier to maintain. Oil has dropped a bit $3.00, right now Oil and propane are about the same price factoring in efficencies


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## Geoff (Oct 24, 2014)

nmashburn said:


> Anything near $2 is a pretty good rate these days, but I guess your getting that based on big volumes.  I just paid $2.79 for 400 gallons in NH, but that took extra work.
> 
> If you're feeding of a common tank, I am guessing your supplier is extra motivated to keep tabs on your level.  Does he have a remote monitor or is he just using the weather as a gauge?



My condo association has 10 townhouse buildings and a couple of commercial buildings that each have a common tank.  Each unit is metered.  I doubt they have a remote monitor.  The propane company screws up and lets the common tank empty once in a while.   I telecommute so I'm usually the one making the phone call after I confirm that my gas stove doesn't work, either.   I really wish I had a pilotless boiler and water heater.

My friends who heat their single family homes at Killington with propane pay way more than I do.   It's one of the advantages of being in a condo that isn't obvious.

I really hope the Burlington natural gas line gets down to Rutland and up & over the pass soon.  I pay about 3x per therm more for propane than I do natural gas at my other house.


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## Geoff (Oct 24, 2014)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> $2.00 for propane isn't bad , Comparing propane and oil isn't a direct comparison , Propane has 90K BTU"s per gallon, Oil has 138K BTU's. Propane is eazier to maintain. Oil has dropped a bit $3.00, right now Oil and propane are about the same price factoring in efficencies



I live in 20 cent+ per kilowatt-hour country.  You also have to factor in the savings of being able to run a gas clothes dryer & gas water heater.  Like most people, I also prefer cooking on a gas stove.


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## Not Sure (Oct 24, 2014)

Geoff said:


> I live in 20 cent+ per kilowatt-hour country.  You also have to factor in the savings of being able to run a gas clothes dryer & gas water heater.  Like most people, I also prefer cooking on a gas stove.



  20 Cents ....Yikes, I'm at .09 , spoke with someone today who locked in .07 for the year.


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## Glenn (Oct 26, 2014)

That monitor is pretty cool. I like home automation, so that's right up my alley. But to get one, I'd have to change my existing propane gauge. I'm not sure what the cost of that would be.  Furthermore, I don't own the tanks, so I'm not sure if it would even be possible.  My tanks are fairly accessible and I've never had an issue taking a look at the level.  The company we use has been good with delivering when we need it.  


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app.


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## Geoff (Oct 27, 2014)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> 20 Cents ....Yikes, I'm at .09 , spoke with someone today who locked in .07 for the year.



Most of Massholia is at the very end of the natural gas pipeline.  All the coal plants were replaced by natural gas plants.  That sucked the pipeline dry so natural gas is very scarce during peak heating periods in the winter.   Electric bills spike.  The "transport" part of your natural gas bill spikes.

Vermont also has a big electricity problem that's only going to get worse when Vermont Yankee closes.   It's making snowmaking very expensive at the ski resorts and they're often not allowed to make snow on those peak heating days that are perfect for blowing snow.


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## Glenn (Oct 28, 2014)

Geoff said:


> Vermont also has a big electricity problem that's only going to get worse when Vermont Yankee closes.   It's making snowmaking very expensive at the ski resorts and they're often not allowed to make snow on those peak heating days that are perfect for blowing snow.



Good point. And tossing a bunch of "high efficiency" snowguns at the problem won't solve it.


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## nmashburn (Nov 1, 2014)

Glenn said:


> That monitor is pretty cool... I'd have to change my existing propane gauge... My tanks are fairly accessible and I've never had an issue taking a look at the level.  The company we use has been good with delivering when we need it.



This is helpful feedback.  Our remote propane monitor is more than likely compatible with your tank and float assembly, it's just the $10 gauge face that needs to be swapped out.  

If you're consistent with your consumption and your propane supplier is a good guesstimator or conservative to make sure you don't run out, then I agree it's not going to prevent you from running out.  Second home owners of places like ski houses seem to be the most interested consumers and we've had a few dozen pre-purchases through the kickstarter, but the propane suppliers may ultimately be the folks that benefit the most.  If you're already reaching out to your supplier for something, I'd appreciate a mention.  Since we'd help them reduce any extra delivery attempts and reduce their costs, you may benefit indirectly.


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## Glenn (Nov 3, 2014)

Now there's something I didn't think of....suppliers. Sure, they have access to the modeling program. But how nice would it be for them to be able to check the actual tank? Doesn't get more accurate than that. 

I'll certainly keep this in mind. I see nothing wrong with another thing I can monitor remotely.


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## marcski (Nov 3, 2014)

I don't have propane but I think it is time to turn on the furnace.  This was taken yesterday morning.  I had a fire going during the day and had it back up to 70 by evening.


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## Glenn (Feb 9, 2015)

nmashburn said:


> This is helpful feedback.  Our remote propane monitor is more than likely compatible with your tank and float assembly, it's just the $10 gauge face that needs to be swapped out.
> 
> If you're consistent with your consumption and your propane supplier is a good guesstimator or conservative to make sure you don't run out, then I agree it's not going to prevent you from running out.  Second home owners of places like ski houses seem to be the most interested consumers and we've had a few dozen pre-purchases through the kickstarter, but the propane suppliers may ultimately be the folks that benefit the most.  If you're already reaching out to your supplier for something, I'd appreciate a mention.  Since we'd help them reduce any extra delivery attempts and reduce their costs, you may benefit indirectly.



Now that we have feet of snow in VT, this monitor is becoming a more viable idea! Just signed up for your newsletter. I'll look into contacting my provider about the possibility of installing something like this on their tanks.


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## AdironRider (Feb 11, 2015)

marcski said:


> I don't have propane but I think it is time to turn on the furnace.  This was taken yesterday morning.  I had a fire going during the day and had it back up to 70 by evening.



I like waking up to 57-59, but my current digs are a 400 square foot log cabin so it takes all of 20 minutes to warm up.


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## Cannonball (Feb 12, 2015)

marcski said:


> I don't have propane but I think it is time to turn on the furnace.  This was taken yesterday morning.  I had a fire going during the day and had it back up to 70 by evening.



This is funny.  We keep our house at 57 all of the time.  Except when we go out we turn it to 54.  Sometimes if we're just sitting around being inactive we kick it up to 60!


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