# ACL injury, surgery, rehab, etc. log



## lerops (Mar 21, 2008)

Now that there's a bunch of us around, I thought it would be helpful to keep a thread going on where everybody is, what the different stages are etc. Those who have been down this road would also be helpful with their experiences.

I got my surgery on Wednesday, hamstring autograft. All went well. Surgery in the morning, discharged around 5pm. I even got a photo of my "before and after" ACLs. uke:

My doctor used a nerve block, so most of the pain started around 24 hours later when the effect wore off. Started swallowing pills like crazy, now down to 1 percocet every 4 hours. Wearing the brace when sleeping and walking around (not doing much of this).

I have a few exercises to do for the first few days: ankle pumps, quad tightening, 90 degree flexion, full extension, straight leg raises.

I pretty much raise the leg and lie down with my leg fully extended, so that's taken care of. Ankle pumps and quad tightening are also fine. I don't have the bending down yet (about 120 degrees), but not too worried. The instructions say that is normal at the begining. Aaaaand I just finished my first leg raises!!! I had been trying since yesterday but had not been able to get it off the couch. But this time, it was different. It felt great too.

Starting PT on Monday, can wait to  next season!


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## wa-loaf (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks for the report. I'm in PT now in preparation for surgery in April or May. Hawkshot was to have had his surgery on Wednesday.

Keep us posted.


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## lerops (Mar 22, 2008)

Thanks. I found the pre-op PT quite useful actually. I did it for about 5 weeks, the exercises we got to towards the end were difficult for the non-injured to do.

Good luck!


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 22, 2008)

I had my surgery the same day, same style, i have the pics, but no plans on looking at them.  I have a "Bledsoe" brace on it to keep it locked.  
Every thing you said up until the pill popping is me.  I try to take them as rarely as possible.  Maye 4 a day.    I have this machine that I place my leg into, and it bends it for me.  I think I am up to 60 degrees on it.
According to my doctor I would be able to walk out of the hospital, with just the brace.  I am not even near that point now.  I would be lost without crutches.

I would also be lost without my parents who are being very nice taking care of me.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 22, 2008)

Did your doctors recommend the hamstring graft? Mine was talking about the cadaver tendon as the best way to go. No final decisions have been made, so I was wondering why you guys decided to go with the hamstring graft.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 22, 2008)

Went with hamstring because he said there is almost 0% chance the body will reject it, since it is part of you.  The body can reject the cadaver tendon.....

And make sure you do the nerve block!  Makes it so much more comfortable.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 22, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Went with hamstring because he said there is almost 0% chance the body will reject it, since it is part of you.  The body can reject the cadaver tendon.....



That's good to know. I want whatever will make my knee the strongest, but I also want a quick recovery. I'd like to be able to do some mt biking by the second half of the summer. Lots to think about.


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## lerops (Mar 22, 2008)

In terms of streghth, my understanding is that there is no difference. My doctor said he recommends patellar tendon only to heavier patients and said I could choose either hamstring or cadavre (achilles or anterior tibial tendon). I went with my own because of the usual reasons and also that we don't know what we don't know.

hawkshot, for me it was 2 days a lot of pills, then less. today I took only one so far. Tryint to get off as well, if possible. I won't push it.

also, do you keep the brace on all the time? It gives me more pain than it helps me. I'd probably wear it when I am going outside (haven't yet). Also when sleeping, but planning to ditch it. My doctor called me the night of the surgery and said I don't have to wear it when I am resting at home (at full extension), which is pretty much me these days.


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## lerops (Mar 22, 2008)

Also i don't have the CPM machine.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 22, 2008)

The only time that I don't wear my brace is when I am using the leg extension thing.  Also I was able to take it off and shower today for the first time:-o.  That was nice.

I don't feel comfortable without the brace on.  With it, I can put a little bit of weight on it.  Plus when lying down, having it on lets me move around a bit to be more comfortable.

Went out today real quick, and boy was it a workout.  Who would have thought crutches to be that hard?


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## severine (Mar 22, 2008)

Love the new avatar, Hawkshot! 

You guys are scaring me.  So this is what I have to look forward to if PT doesn't help (or if I finish tearing my ACL)?  I broke my foot last June and was supposed to be on crutches for 2 weeks with a 2 week old infant and 2 year old to care for.  Didn't happen.  When they went to put the cast on, I told them there was no way I could stay off my foot and they better use the walking boot.  Can't imagine _requiring_ crutches now with the 10 month old (who walks, BTW) and nearly 3 year old.  

PT starts Wed.  I guess I'll know more then.  Since the orthopedist said I could _try_ skiing as long as I went easy, I'm going to try tomorrow night.  No brace - he said he didn't think I needed one since I haven't had stability problems in the 5 weeks since I injured it.  I guess we'll see how it goes.  I promise, I'll stick to the greens.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 22, 2008)

PT kicked my butt today. Much harder than the pool session. Started out with about 10 mins on an exercise bike. Then did hamstring exercises with a big yoga ball, squats on a (bosu?) balancing board, wall sliders again with the yoga ball, and finally the hardest was doing this walking thing with a tension cord around my feet. The whole time I was thinking what great exercises these are for skiing! :sad: Finished up with some stretching and my knee in this cooling pressure wrap. Really feeling it in my quads tonight.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 22, 2008)

Curious about the hamstring autograft.  Does this not weaken another area of your body?  Stealing from Peter to pay Paul so to speak


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## lerops (Mar 23, 2008)

I asked the same question, the answer was that the loss is minimal and more importantly you only lose from potential since those who are not top athletes don't really use all of the hamstring power.

Actually, because of the same reason I was worried about using the patellar tendon. They cut off the middle third for the graft and there is not as much of it to start with.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 23, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> Curious about the hamstring autograft.  Does this not weaken another area of your body?  Stealing from Peter to pay Paul so to speak



Well I do know that I can barely lift my leg vertically without some form of help.  And this is a vast improvement from the beginning.  Maybe the hamstring is very fast healing?:idea:  IDK, I just went with what was the doctors #1 suggestion as he knows a bit more than me.


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## Hawkshot99 (Mar 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> PT kicked my butt today. Much harder than the pool session. Started out with about 10 mins on an exercise bike. Then did hamstring exercises with a big yoga ball, squats on a (bosu?) balancing board, wall sliders again with the yoga ball, and finally the hardest was doing this walking thing with a tension cord around my feet. The whole time I was thinking what great exercises these are for skiing! :sad: Finished up with some stretching and my knee in this cooling pressure wrap. Really feeling it in my quads tonight.



The PT I did was pretty tough.  By the end I was using a lot of different leg machines(weights).  I think I started at 50-60#'s on a leg press, and ended at 120#.

When I started the PT there was no hope that I would do good enough to avoid surgery, it was just a way to strengthen myself before the surgery.  I rarely felt pain, unless I moved just wrong then *IT HURT!!!!*


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## severine (Mar 23, 2008)

severine said:


> Since the orthopedist said I could _try_ skiing as long as I went easy, I'm going to try tomorrow night.  No brace - he said he didn't think I needed one since I haven't had stability problems in the 5 weeks since I injured it.  I guess we'll see how it goes.  I promise, I'll stick to the greens.


Parents canceled at the last minute to watch the kids.  Stuck home.  Looks like no skiing for the rest of this season for me.  Not worth it to drive north and pay when I'm not even sure if my knee can handle it (and it's nearly impossible to get anyone to watch the kids anyway).  Disappointed doesn't even come close to how I feel right now, even when I think of the practical side (you know, the "well at least I won't injure it more" argument).


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## wa-loaf (Mar 23, 2008)

severine said:


> Parents canceled at the last minute to watch the kids.  Stuck home.  Looks like no skiing for the rest of this season for me.  Not worth it to drive north and pay when I'm not even sure if my knee can handle it (and it's nearly impossible to get anyone to watch the kids anyway).  Disappointed doesn't even come close to how I feel right now, even when I think of the practical side (you know, the "well at least I won't injure it more" argument).



Where's Brian? He's been skiing a lot lately. Make him watch the kids while you go out and have a good time.


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## severine (Mar 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Where's Brian? He's been skiing a lot lately. Make him watch the kids while you go out and have a good time.


He volunteered to work. :roll:  And yeah, he's been skiing a lot AND going out and having fun.  I wonder when it'll be my turn....


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## wa-loaf (Mar 23, 2008)

Hawkshot99 said:


> When I started the PT there was no hope that I would do good enough to avoid surgery, it was just a way to strengthen myself before the surgery.  I rarely felt pain, unless I moved just wrong then *IT HURT!!!!*


*

Same here, they want to strengthen the muscles (makes for quicker recovery) and for the swelling from the bone bruising to go down. It just felt good to exercise after almost 4 weeks of inactivity.*


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## lerops (Mar 23, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> PT kicked my butt today. Much harder than the pool session. Started out with about 10 mins on an exercise bike. Then did hamstring exercises with a big yoga ball, squats on a (bosu?) balancing board, wall sliders again with the yoga ball, and finally the hardest was doing this walking thing with a tension cord around my feet. The whole time I was thinking what great exercises these are for skiing! :sad: Finished up with some stretching and my knee in this cooling pressure wrap. Really feeling it in my quads tonight.


The side step with the theraband was my favorite exercise. You will probably do it with squats as well. That's even better.

I loved the pre-op rehab. I am starting post-op rehab tomorrow, which I am looking forward to. I just want the first few days to be over so that I can move around comfortably.


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## Paul (Mar 24, 2008)

Patellar tendon autograph is rough. Mine was a year ago last Thursday, and its still not 100%. The hamstring must be much easier in that my leg was in an immobilizer for 2 weeks (actually, much longer, but I was able to start moving slightly at about that point) I had not only the nerve-block for surgery, but also morphine. I was on an oxycontin and Vicodin cocktail for about 10 days, then almost a month of Vikes. Didn't get the CPM either, but that's mostly due to having to stay immobile for awhile. There was a lot of atrophy and its still not quite back yet, despite doing some pretty heavy lifting at least once a week.


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## lerops (Mar 24, 2008)

Thanks Paul. 

Hamstring seems to have less pain than patellar tendon, on the flip side, you are on crutches for a lot longer. I guess we'll all be well in the long term.

I did my first PT today, but not a lot really. Basic stuff. Generally she said I am doing fine. Measured extension at 8 degrees and flexion at 70 unassisted and 80 assisted. Will keep working on range of motion. Quad strength seems to be very good. All the pre-op PT seems to be paying off.

It was a lot of exercise going out with the crutches though.


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## Paul (Mar 24, 2008)

Wow, that's pretty good. You'll have normal ROM in no time.

PT is great, but its amazing how it wears you right out. An hour of fairly simple activity, and wham, want to lie-down, NOW! :lol:

I'm pretty sure I still have some protocols around for after insurance no-longer covers your PT. PM me if you want them, I think they're in .pdf format.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 24, 2008)

lerops said:


> The side step with the theraband was my favorite exercise. You will probably do it with squats as well. That's even better.



That's the thing! I liked the land based PT. I'm going to do the pool again on Thursday, but if it's like last week I think I'll switch the rest to land.


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## lerops (Mar 24, 2008)

I have 90 days of PT from my wife's generous insurance policy, so I will probably be fine; but still interested in those protocols. Will PM you. Thanks!


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## lerops (Mar 25, 2008)

Finally, some hope here. My kneecap appeared out of this big baloon I call my knee these days. :beer:


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## severine (Mar 26, 2008)

Started PT today.  Luckily, the pain level was pretty low to begin with (though my knee hurts now post-PT).  I was shown some pilates-like movements and stretches to do.  Did stationary bike for 5 min.  Was told if I could access one, it would be great to do at home (but alas,I do not have access to one).  Walking on flat level ground was advised.  Nothing too crazy.  I did use a fitter with the flat board for one foot, back-and-forth and side-to-side.  Slow movements.

Go back Monday for my next session.  I have 9 of them lined up (10 including today) before my follow-up with the orthopedist on April 29th.

Oh yeah, and I did learn that my orthopedist has told someone before with a blown ACL that if he physically could do it, he could ski the rest of the season and he (the orthopedist) would see him in the spring for surgery. :lol:  The therapist I saw today, though, seemed like he wasn't sure if it was a good idea for me to be trying some turns.  But I did tell him I'm going Friday if Sundown is open.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 26, 2008)

My pool sessions are Tuesday not Thurs. doh! Anyway hit the pool again yesterday and complained a little about it not being hard enough, oops! They had me put on some resistance cuffs on my feet and worked me out pretty good. Still didn't feel that tough in the pool, but my legs were jello all afternoon. :-D


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## Mildcat (Mar 26, 2008)

severine said:


> Did stationary bike for 5 min.  Was told if I could access one, it would be great to do at home (but alas,I do not have access to one).



I have one sitting in my basement not doing anything. If you want it it's yours. I'm sure as hell not using it.


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## severine (Mar 26, 2008)

Mildcat said:


> I have one sitting in my basement not doing anything. If you want it it's yours. I'm sure as hell not using it.


Thanks for the offer!   I tried asking if I could just ride my bike, but that's a no-no right now.  I may be joining the YMCA and if I do, that will solve that problem.


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## Paul (Mar 27, 2008)

severine said:


> Thanks for the offer!   I tried asking if I could just ride my bike, but that's a no-no right now.  I may be joining the YMCA and if I do, that will solve that problem.









Brain's the cowboy, right?


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## severine (Mar 27, 2008)

Nah, he's the guy in the leather.


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## bvibert (Mar 27, 2008)

severine said:


> Nah, he's the guy in the leather.


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## lerops (Mar 27, 2008)

Did the stationary bike yesterday, I was really surprised being asked to hop on it one week after my surgery. I did not do full circles though, It's cycling in both ways until point of discomfort. It definitely beats heel slides!


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## lerops (Apr 3, 2008)

I had a post-op appointment on Tuesday, ~ 2 weeks out of surgery. 

Stiches removed. Pretty much ditched the brace, down to one crutch but another couple of weeks before ditching them (I hate crutches). ROM at 0-120. Docotr said I am doing very well. Felt good to hear even if he is just saying it. 

Doing ROM and strength exercises mostly at OT. Also doing the stationary bike twice a day for about an hour total. 

How is everbody else doing?


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## drjeff (Apr 3, 2008)

lerops said:


> I had a post-op appointment on Tuesday, ~ 2 weeks out of surgery.
> 
> Stiches removed. Pretty much ditched the brace, down to one crutch but another couple of weeks before ditching them (I hate crutches). ROM at 0-120. Docotr said I am doing very well. Felt good to hear even if he is just saying it.
> 
> ...



Nice to hear that the post surg PT is working very well!


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## Hawkshot99 (Apr 3, 2008)

Start PT tomorrow again.  I have been off crutches since Last week, but still wear my brace when i go out.  I do not wear it around the house though.  
Had the 2 week appointment on Tues. yesterday as well and got clearance to drive.  ROM is around 0-105 with using only the bad leg, and around 120 helping with the other leg.


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## lerops (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks drjeff.

HS, good to hear you are doing well. Great that your doctor is not crutch-obsessed. Mine initially said 4-6 weeks, but looks like he will let me off the hook with 4. I am starting work on Monday, will wear the brace for the first day and see how it goes. The doctor asked me to be careful about twisting the knee.


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## Hawkshot99 (Apr 3, 2008)

He told me that if I did not want to use crutches at all that I never needed them.  I used them for about a week.  My guy is really a fan of the brace though...:-?  He said I should be able to get rid of it in 2 weeks.  At home I can be more cautious and dont really wear it, but out in public it is nice to have that little bit of protection.
I went back to work after 1 week, but it was just a part time job, and I mainly relied on the other guy to run the store.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 3, 2008)

Not much to report until I have surgery. Still doing PT and knee is feeling pretty good. Got an appt on the 11th with the doc to reevaluate and likely schedule surgery.


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## severine (Apr 3, 2008)

PT continues.  Still sore at times, especially now that we're pushing it a bit more.  I was told it should be strong enough in 5 weeks for my trip, so that's my motivator right now.

Took a 3.5 mile walk today on a dirt/gravel trail around the reservoir...pushing the stroller, dragging the little girl.  Plus my exercises (or as I call it, homework).  I also picked up a core disk (which is just like what I started using at my last appointment for balancing on one leg).  Should be useful even after PT is over for general core strength as well.


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## lerops (Apr 9, 2008)

Rehab is interesting.

Last weekend I think I overdid the bike. On Saturday, I did it twice, 45 minutes each. My knee got badly swollen. So, only one 45 min session on Sunday. Keeping it to once a day now as per the PT recomendation.

More exercise, the knee feels better, less stiff. But then it swells. Really need to keep it at a fine line.

Anyway, ditched the brace completely. Down to one crutch and pretty much only when I go outside. Trying to walk normally.

Started work, I don't like it!


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## Paul (Apr 9, 2008)

lerops said:


> Rehab is interesting.
> 
> More exercise, the knee feels better, less stiff. But then it swells. Really need to keep it at a fine line.
> 
> Started work, I don't like it!



13 Months post-op. That is still my experience. Work included.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 11, 2008)

I've got a date for surgery now. June 4th! :-(  Damn, I was hoping to get it done earlier. Hell, I'm ready to do it next week. I'm on the wait list for May sometime if someone has to cancel. Other than that my knee is great shape considering what I did to it. Gonna do the cadaver tendon. Doc said that's what he would do for himself, stronger than the hamstring and he laughed when I asked about the patella.



lerops said:


> Anyway, ditched the brace completely. Down to one crutch and pretty much only when I go outside. Trying to walk normally.



Doc mentioned ditching the crutches and/or brace too soon as one of the main reasons for failure of the surgery . . .


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## Mildcat (Apr 11, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I've got a date for surgery now. June 4th! :-(  Damn, I was hoping to get it done earlier.



Wow that sucks. How longs the recovery? Will you be getting early season turns?


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## wa-loaf (Apr 11, 2008)

Mildcat said:


> Wow that sucks. How longs the recovery? Will you be getting early season turns?



6 Months if everything goes well. I'd like to be skiing in December, but I'll probably need to wait until January.


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## severine (Apr 11, 2008)

Aw, that really sucks!  Hopefully you can catch a cancellation in May.


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## lerops (Apr 12, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Doc mentioned ditching the crutches and/or brace too soon as one of the main reasons for failure of the surgery . . .


Well, I didn't just decide to ditch them. Doc told me that I could. It is interesting how different doctors have different protocols, though. I have seen some protocols (for hamstring aclr) with just 3 days crutch time. Mine said 4-6 weeks and is probably going to let me off the hook with 4.

Sorry about your surgery date. I don't know what your situation is (insurance etc.) but if my doctor couldn't do it in March, I'd probably consider another one (that I trust). 

About the graft choices, I have come to believe that graft choice is redundant. The doctor and the PT are what matter. 

Good luck with the rest of your pre-op PT and your surgery. Happy to help if you have any questions about the early phases.


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## wa-loaf (Apr 12, 2008)

lerops said:


> Sorry about your surgery date. I don't know what your situation is (insurance etc.) but if my doctor couldn't do it in March, I'd probably consider another one (that I trust).



I trust this guy and he comes highly recommended. There's a reason he's schedule is packed. I'm just going to hope that someone cancels in May. But June will work. I think it screws up getting out much this summer more so than getting out skiing next winter.

I'm done PT for now, except for what I do on my own. Just biding time now, although some spring skiing is starting to look very tempting . . .


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## wa-loaf (Jun 3, 2008)

Surgery tomorrow finally! The med device guys dropped off my CPM machine and fitted me for a brace today.


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## severine (Jun 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Surgery tomorrow finally! The med device guys dropped off my CPM machine and fitted me for a brace today.


GOOD LUCK!!!!!!  Let us know how it goes!


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## hardline (Jun 3, 2008)

good luck


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## Paul (Jun 4, 2008)

Enjoy!!



And don't forget, when you get home despite the drugs they've given you, and despite getting onto a strict percocet schedule, you can still chow-down 1500mg of ibuprofin. Do it. Trust me.


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## Puck it (Jun 4, 2008)

Where do I begin?  Right side of the body has been rebuilt due a various injuries.  Right knee = 4 sugeries which one was an ACL reconstrcution with patella tendon.  Worse knee the doc has seen.  Normal repair time is 2 to 2 1/2 hours.  Surgery for me, was 6 hours.  Required bone to be ground down.  4-5% cartlidge left.  I need another surgery to grind a bone spur that affects walking but not skiing.  Thanks god.  I played hockey after 8 months, but had tendonitis from too much during rehab.  Left bicep tendon torn in mogul field two agos.  I kept skiing though.  I did not have much rehab with this though.  The tear happened in the end of March and I was golfing end of May and played softball in June.  All of this without any pain what so ever.  My wife calls me a freak and the doc always tells me that I am going to rip the screws out because I am feeling so good.


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## 2knees (Jun 4, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Surgery tomorrow finally! The med device guys dropped off my CPM machine and fitted me for a brace today.



good luck, although by now you're (hopefully) out already.

my one piece of advice.  set an alarm to take your pain meds overnight.  I didnt do this the first night and woke up in excruciating pain.


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## Puck it (Jun 4, 2008)

2knees said:


> good luck, although by now you're (hopefully) out already.
> 
> my one piece of advice. set an alarm to take your pain meds overnight. I didnt do this the first night and woke up in excruciating pain.


 
I did not have the machine.  It is amazing the diferences in doctors' theories.  I was walking on my leag after three days with no crutches and bending in the brace after a week.  Do not baby it!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wa-loaf (Jun 4, 2008)

I'm back. Surgery went well except they were running 2+ hours late and I had to sit around for a long time. There was a tv but only had soaps, judge bla bla shows and Jerry Springer! I should have brought a book.

Sitting on the couch now with the leg up, just feels a little achy but the nerve block hasn't really worn off yet. Start with the cpm tomorrow morning and some excercises. I should be able to partially support my weight on it, but with the nerve block it's kinda all over the place now.


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## drjeff (Jun 4, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I'm back. Surgery went well except they were running 2+ hours late and I had to sit around for a long time. There was a tv but only had soaps, judge bla bla shows and Jerry Springer! I should have brought a book.
> 
> Sitting on the couch now with the leg up, just feels a little achy but the nerve block hasn't really worn off yet. Start with the cpm tomorrow morning and some excercises. I should be able to partially support my weight on it, but with the nerve block it's kinda all over the place now.



Glad the orthopod did a good job and things went well!  Just in case I hope they gave you some good drugs   Hope post surg rehab starts off smoothly tommorrow!


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## severine (Jun 4, 2008)

Yay!  Go easy, though.  Don't do too much, too fast.


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## wa-loaf (Jun 4, 2008)

And thanks everyone for the well wishes!



severine said:


> Yay!  Go easy, though.  Don't do too much, too fast.



At first I thought you were telling me not to drink too much.


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## lerops (Jun 5, 2008)

Glad it went well, wa-loaf! What kind of graft did you end up going with? When are you starting PT?

 I am 11 weeks out now. Feeling great. Planning to get into biking outdoor soon. I have been cleared for all non-pivoting sports other than running.


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## wa-loaf (Jun 5, 2008)

lerops said:


> Glad it went well, wa-loaf! What kind of graft did you end up going with? When are you starting PT?
> 
> I am 11 weeks out now. Feeling great. Planning to get into biking outdoor soon. I have been cleared for all non-pivoting sports other than running.



I went with the alograft. Seemed like the strongest and fasted recovery.

I've got the cpm machine and the doc gave me some exercises to do. I have my post-op appt next Thursday and I figure at that point we'll start scheduling PT.


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## wa-loaf (Jun 12, 2008)

Had my follow-up and they told me it was the in the best shape possible after surgery. Probably because I had 3 months to work out. :roll: Hell, I was even doing some pretty tough mtn biking before the operation. 

Stitches came out and there is still a ton of bruising around the knee that is more uncomfortable than the actual ACL itself. I was scolded for not wearing my brace enough. I had been taking it off around the house and for sleeping. I've been ordered to keep it on and locked for the next two weeks day and night, even for PT. I don't know how PT is going to work with the locked brace. :roll: Gonna go and call the rehab center and make an appt now.


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## bvibert (Jun 12, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Had my follow-up and they told me it was the in the best shape possible after surgery. Probably because I had 3 months to work out. :roll: Hell, I was even doing some pretty tough mtn biking before the operation.
> 
> Stitches came out and there is still a ton of bruising around the knee that is more uncomfortable than the actual ACL itself. I was scolded for not wearing my brace enough. I had been taking it off around the house and for sleeping. I've been ordered to keep it on and locked for the next two weeks day and night, even for PT. I don't know how PT is going to work with the locked brace. :roll: Gonna go and call the rehab center and make an appt now.



Glad things are going smoothly for ya!


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## lerops (Jun 12, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Had my follow-up and they told me it was the in the best shape possible after surgery. Probably because I had 3 months to work out. :roll: Hell, I was even doing some pretty tough mtn biking before the operation.
> 
> Stitches came out and there is still a ton of bruising around the knee that is more uncomfortable than the actual ACL itself. I was scolded for not wearing my brace enough. I had been taking it off around the house and for sleeping. I've been ordered to keep it on and locked for the next two weeks day and night, even for PT. I don't know how PT is going to work with the locked brace. :roll: Gonna go and call the rehab center and make an appt now.


 
Glad it is going well.

I asked my doctor when he called me the night of the surgery if I could take the brace off when I was lying down since I was basically elevating my leg at full extension anyway. He said OK, but to wear it while sleeping. I did that for about 10 days. After that I only wore it for a couple of more weeks while I went out, mostly unlucked. That was it. I think it is important to keep it on while sleeping to prevent involuntary movement. 

Bruising is normal, I thought my leg was a wreck but PT said everybody has it.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 24, 2008)

How long did everyone go to PT after surgery? My insurance paid PT days run out next week, but my doc wants me to keep going. I'm wondering if I should try to push the insurance co for more days. $50 bucks a pop is kinda steep.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 24, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> How long did everyone go to PT after surgery? My insurance paid PT days run out next week, but my doc wants me to keep going. I'm wondering if I should try to push the insurance co for more days. $50 bucks a pop is kinda steep.



I'm not expert on how long it might take, but I would definitely talk to the doc about how he might help push your insurance company to pay more.


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## Hawkshot99 (Jul 24, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> How long did everyone go to PT after surgery? My insurance paid PT days run out next week, but my doc wants me to keep going. I'm wondering if I should try to push the insurance co for more days. $50 bucks a pop is kinda steep.



I started PT before the surgery(end of Jan.) and did pt till mar. 15, then 2 weeks off.  Then April through beginning of July.  My Insurance said I ran out of days, but my doc. wrote me a new prescription.  I was only paying $20 a day.

I am all done with PT, and at about 80% or so.


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## Paul (Jul 24, 2008)

25 days. Aetna told me I could take the extra days on the prescrip and cram them up my ass.







I didn't. 


I also stopped going long before I, my Orthopod, and my PT wanted me to.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 24, 2008)

Paul said:


> 25 days. Aetna told me I could take the extra days on the prescrip and cram them up my ass.



I'm only allowed 20 and I burned up 12 before my surgery. Shoulda checked the policy first. :smash:

I'm going to call Blue Cross tomorrow and my doc and see of we can work something out. Otherwise I guess I'll be on my own, maybe just check in with the PT once a month. :-?


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## Paul (Jul 24, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I'm only allowed 20 and I burned up 12 before my surgery. Shoulda checked the policy first. :smash:
> 
> I'm going to call Blue Cross tomorrow and my doc and see of we can work something out. Otherwise I guess I'll be on my own, maybe just check in with the PT once a month. :-?



Wow, I didn't do any pre-surgery. Couldn't really as I had to wait for the bones to heal and the swelling to subside. Also, with the patellar tendon autograft, I really needed PT post-op.


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## wa-loaf (Jul 25, 2008)

Paul said:


> Wow, I didn't do any pre-surgery. Couldn't really as I had to wait for the bones to heal and the swelling to subside. Also, with the patellar tendon autograft, I really needed PT post-op.



Yea, my doc wanted me to do it to get the swelling down and build some muscle before the surgery.


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## severine (Jul 25, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm not expert on how long it might take, but I would definitely talk to the doc about how he might help push your insurance company to pay more.


It depends on the insurance company, but sometimes you can get them to agree to more days with a doc's script.  Ours is 20 but that can be increased if the doc says you need more.

Sounds like you're healing well!


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## lerops (Jul 25, 2008)

I have 90 days of PT on my wife's insurance, so although I also went before surgery I am not close to running out of days. Wa-loaf, I think once a month after you run out could work well if you are good about doing your exercises on your own.

Now I am down to a day a week just to keep things in check. My doc said I could actually stop and do it on my own, and then go back in a few months for conditioning, but I like going to PT. I have also been doing my exercises pretty much every day. Maybe I skip one day every other week. 

That said, I kinda neglected my exercises in the last couple of weeks or so. First hours at work, then vacation. Now I am finding it difficult to do the stuff I was doing before. Today I went to PT and they said it is normal after taking a break. So, my advice to anybody is keep at it!


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## wa-loaf (Sep 8, 2008)

Think we can get Tom Brady posting here?


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## gorgonzola (Sep 8, 2008)

just found out my daughter likely tore hers playing field hockey, MRI next monday....looks like no snowboarding for her this winter though....


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## wa-loaf (Sep 8, 2008)

gorgonzola said:


> just found out my daughter likely tore hers playing field hockey, MRI next monday....looks like no snowboarding for her this winter though....



Bummer, sorry to hear that. Someone told me recently that 1 in 4 girls tear their acl's playing soccer. That probably applies to Field Hockey too.

Hope it's not too bad.


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## hardline (Sep 9, 2008)

i really think the acl is over rated. unless you are playing sports where you change direction fast. i have never had a problem MTB, motorcross, snowboarding, and wakeboarding. just keep you legs really shape. i am not a doctor but that is my personaly experiance.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 9, 2008)

hardline said:


> i really think the acl is over rated. unless you are playing sports where you change direction fast. i have never had a problem MTB, motorcross, snowboarding, and wakeboarding. just keep you legs really shape. i am not a doctor but that is my personaly experiance.



When you blow your ACL young and don't get it repaired it greatly increases your risk of getting bad arthritis in your 50s.


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## 2knees (Sep 10, 2008)

hardline said:


> i really think the acl is over rated. unless you are playing sports where you change direction fast. i have never had a problem MTB, motorcross, snowboarding, and wakeboarding. just keep you legs really shape. *i am not a doctor* but that is my personaly experiance.



I'm gonna edit my post cause in reality you are correct about the changing directions part.  However, as Wa-loaf pointed out there is a greatly increased risk of arthritis, tendinitis and other issues further down the road.  I initially didnt get my left acl repaired, thinking i could just suck it up and deal with it.  It popped out constantly on me playing basketball and softball.  It even would pop out due to minor things like trying to sit cross legged and such.  It was way too painful to deal with when it went out so i went ahead and got it fixed.  Skiing?  yeah, I managed one day on my leg with no acl.  I skied groomers cautiously for an hour or two and then headed for the bumps.  That lasted all of 1 and a 1/2 runs before i was in a sled and being taken down.  

Overrated?  I guess it depends on what you like to do for activity.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 10, 2008)

I find it interesting that some are able to carry on without functioning ACL's - hardline, geoff, John Elway, but others cannot.  I guess it depends on an individuals body and that for some an ACL isn't needed.  Elway is an amazing case because he was not a true scrambler, but one of the more mobile quarterbacks the game has seen.

At any rate, for those who are injured, here's to a swift recovery; I hope I am fortunate enough to keep my knees intact for a long, long, time


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## wa-loaf (Sep 10, 2008)

deadheadskier said:


> I find it interesting that some are able to carry on without functioning ACL's - hardline, geoff, John Elway, but others cannot.  I guess it depends on an individuals body and that for some an ACL isn't needed.  Elway is an amazing case because he was not a true scrambler, but one of the more mobile quarterbacks the game has seen.
> 
> At any rate, for those who are injured, here's to a swift recovery; I hope I am fortunate enough to keep my knees intact for a long, long, time



My knee was actually very stable after the accident. So much so that they thought maybe I hadn't busted it. They were on the fence about surgery, but I wanted to make sure I didn't have any trouble in the future.


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## Puck it (Sep 10, 2008)

I blew my mine out in grad school playing hockey for the staff intramural team.  FYI, never injured playing college hockey for four years but torn ACL and broke three ribs playing hack hockey.  Back to topic, I had it scoped and cleaned out but could not take the time or afford the money for the reconstruction in grad school.  So, I abused the joint for 12 years, skiing, playing hockey, etc.  It would pop out with a Rx brace on.  You can function without the ACL.  You can run, but changing direction and especially stopping was the problem.  Needless to say,  my knee was the worse knee that my ortho had seen.  Six hour surgery, normal is 2.5 hours.  He had to grind to do the surgery correctly.  Now, I use no brace and knee is tight.  However,  I will have a problem when I am older.  Knee replacement in my future.


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## lerops (Dec 9, 2008)

Planning to get back on snow this weekend first time after injury. Want to do a trip to the Catskills, but the weather does not seem promising. We'll see!


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## wa-loaf (Dec 9, 2008)

lerops said:


> Planning to get back on snow this weekend first time after injury. Want to do a trip to the Catskills, but the weather does not seem promising. We'll see!



I had my final doctors visit today. Everything is cool. I'll be getting fitted for a brace (for skiing, soccer) on Thursday.


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## lerops (Dec 9, 2008)

I am debating whether to do the brace or not. Even my doctor said it had no scientifically measurable impact, and the benefit of psychological effect can be achieved through a simple brace as well. So, I don't know. How did make your decision ?


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## wa-loaf (Dec 9, 2008)

I didn't really. He's said here's the number for the guy for you brace. I figure it doesn't hurt to have it and my insurance will cover it. I'll be racing in Jan so I figure the extra support will give me a little more confidence.


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## Paul (Dec 9, 2008)

Good luck, One-Stumpers!


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## wa-loaf (Dec 9, 2008)

Paul said:


> Good luck, One-Stumpers!



Thanks Limpy.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 9, 2008)

lerops said:


> I am debating whether to do the brace or not. Even my doctor said it had no scientifically measurable impact, and the benefit of psychological effect can be achieved through a simple brace as well. So, I don't know. How did make your decision ?



I dont have a real nice custom brace.  I just have a Don-joy that I owned before the injury.  I only wear it when skiing.  I hate the feeling of weakness I get skiing without it.


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## lerops (Dec 22, 2008)

Back on snow after 9 months.  It was my second day today, and I was really happy to notice that unlike the first day knee felt more normal. This happens all the time though. A new activity makes the knee feel weird.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread with their experience, opinions or good wishes. And also I wish a quick recovery to those still working on it! The prize will be well worth it.


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## Warp Daddy (Dec 22, 2008)

Glad  ur out  there and feeling good --what a great Christmas present !


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 23, 2008)

My knee was real sore after a long night of powder skiing Friday night, but feeling better now.  I just need to not push it too much.


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## lerops (Dec 24, 2008)

Hawkshot, I am glad you are enjoying the snow. 

I am skiing about 5 hours a day, maybe 3 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. Taking a long break in between and not pushing myself a lot . All the strength I have built up while rehabbing definitely helps. Before the injury I would ski first to last and most of the time would do a quick lunch.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 24, 2008)

lerops said:


> Hawkshot, I am glad you are enjoying the snow.
> 
> I am skiing about 5 hours a day, maybe 3 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. Taking a long break in between and not pushing myself a lot . All the strength I have built up while rehabbing definitely helps. Before the injury I would ski first to last and most of the time would do a quick lunch.



I dont normally ski more than 2-3 hours a day.  I just go out quick after work, or when the store gets slow for a while, so I have not built up real good skiing endurance yet.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2009)

So first time out on skis last night went really well. Knee didn't bother me a bit and I got used to the brace really quick. After the first run to assess things I skied the rest of the night as if nothing had ever happened. My quads got tired quickly, but that's mainly due to a lot of inactivity lately. Knee is slightly achy today.


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So first time out on skis last night went really well. Knee didn't bother me a bit and I got used to the brace really quick. After the first run to assess things I skied the rest of the night as if nothing had ever happened. My quads got tired quickly, but that's mainly due to a lot of inactivity lately. Knee is slightly achy today.



Good news. Glad the patch job held up!


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## severine (Jan 5, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So first time out on skis last night went really well. Knee didn't bother me a bit and I got used to the brace really quick. After the first run to assess things I skied the rest of the night as if nothing had ever happened. My quads got tired quickly, but that's mainly due to a lot of inactivity lately. Knee is slightly achy today.


Glad to hear your first day (night) back on the snow went well! My knee was sore when I returned to skiing, too, because I hadn't been doing enough. It's so easy to get busy and forget to do the PT exercises (which I imagine I should have kept doing to keep my knee strong). Also glad to hear you got used to the brace quickly. How long will you have to use that?


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 5, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So first time out on skis last night went really well. Knee didn't bother me a bit and I got used to the brace really quick. After the first run to assess things I skied the rest of the night as if nothing had ever happened. My quads got tired quickly, but that's mainly due to a lot of inactivity lately. Knee is slightly achy today.



SUPER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Loaf er  i'm delighted that you are able to get out there and do your thing .  You DESERVE a great season , my man  and i'm sure that THIS is exactly what You NEED  . Vibes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are your kids ready for the hill yet ??


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2009)

severine said:


> How long will you have to use that?



I figure I use it for the year and see how things feel next year. I know there is some debate on whether it's actually helpful or not. My insurance co spent $1000+ on it so I figure I owe them to use it for a while. :lol:



Warp Daddy said:


> Are your kids ready for the hill yet ??



I haven't gotten the kids out yet. They are tough to juggle right now since the littlest one is only 2. I need to put the 5 year old in lessons and then just spend some "fun time" on the snow with the 2yr old.


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## lerops (Jan 5, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> So first time out on skis last night went really well. Knee didn't bother me a bit and I got used to the brace really quick. After the first run to assess things I skied the rest of the night as if nothing had ever happened. My quads got tired quickly, but that's mainly due to a lot of inactivity lately. Knee is slightly achy today.


 
Glad to hear it went well. What kind of brace did you get?


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## wa-loaf (Jan 5, 2009)

lerops said:


> Glad to hear it went well. What kind of brace did you get?



It's a Breg.


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## severine (Jan 5, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> I figure I use it for the year and see how things feel next year. I know there is some debate on whether it's actually helpful or not. My insurance co spent $1000+ on it so I figure I owe them to use it for a while. :lol:


Heck, if insurance is willing to pay, it's worth a shot, right?


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## Edd (Sep 2, 2011)

I was thinking of starting a general ACL thread but this'll do fine.

I'm just over 6 months post-op from an allograft ACL surgery.  I quit PT 2 months ago out of boredom and I also wanted to start real workouts and experiment a bit.  They told me the recovery period would be long and I understood intellectually but holy s**t enough already!

At the gym at work I'm doing leg presses and curls, treadmill on full incline walking, elliptical, a recumbent bike, and a rowing machine.  Damn, it feels good to do it all.  The knee gets sore the next day but it fades the day after.  I'd say the injured leg is at 80%.

I bought a spin bike for home months ago.  I'd long ago realized I hate spinning but I thought "Anything for recovery!"  Nope.  I still hate spin bikes.  If I can get my girlfriend to part with it that sucker is out the door.

I'm real nervous about skiing and, for psychological purposes, I plan to wear a brace on both knees.  

Wa-loaf, I know you also got an allograph and wore a specially fitted brace.  I haven't been recommended a brace at all but I'm asking my doc about it when I see him.  How did it end up working out? 

Also for psychological reasons I'm not using the bindings I was wearing while injured.  They've never released in several falls.  They are likely fine but I'll have them checked out and then will sell them or trade them in.  Anyone interested in some medium Marker Barons?

Cost of my surgery?  Over $29,000.  That's outpatient folks.  God help us all.


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## wa-loaf (Sep 2, 2011)

Edd said:


> Wa-loaf, I know you also got an allograph and wore a specially fitted brace.  I haven't been recommended a brace at all but I'm asking my doc about it when I see him.  How did it end up working out?



I wore the brace for the first season post surgery and haven't touched it since. I guess it depends on how you feel about your knee.


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## Nick (Sep 2, 2011)

What's the sign when you blow out your ACL, a collapse? That is an expensive surgery... I think my knees are OK but I'm still in my 30's.


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## Riverskier (Sep 2, 2011)

Nick said:


> What's the sign when you blow out your ACL, a collapse? That is an expensive surgery... I think my knees are OK but I'm still in my 30's.



I have torn both of mine and I am only 33. One when I was 18 and the other when I was 26. Not really a degenerative thing with age, but more injury induced, and can happen at any age. The first time I had no idea what I had done, but it happened landing on a rock dropping a cliff. It hurt like hell, swelled up, and I couldn't walk on it. The second time I knew, as I heard and felt the characteristic pop, and standing on it felt unsteady. Much less dramatic circumstances and less pain. Both of my surgeries were under $10,000, but they were years ago, and we all know what is happening with the cost of healthcare.


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## Edd (Sep 2, 2011)

Nick said:


> What's the sign when you blow out your ACL, a collapse? That is an expensive surgery... I think my knees are OK but I'm still in my 30's.



The past couple of seasons I would wear a simple $10 brace if one of my knees was sore but I've never had a problem until this year; it's like a whole new reality.  Thankfully there are quite a few success stories to draw upon, even just on this forum.

My one big takeaway lesson from this is _keep your legs strong_.  The stronger the muscles are the less stress will be placed on ligaments and such.  I've historically worked out off season and relied on only skiing for leg strength during winter.  Never again.


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