# Largest resort in the East?



## Nick (Sep 4, 2014)

This article about Killington adding new snow guns had a statement in it that Killington is the "largest ski and snowboard destination in Eastern North America,". 

A commentor mentioned that he thought Sugarloaf was the largest, and I thought with the addition of Burnt Mountain it was in fact, at least in terms of skiable acres. 

I know marketing teams will use aspects of their resort to make statements that work in their favor (e.g. biggest could mean most acres, most trails, longest trails, most visits, hell you could probably even say biggest in relation to base lodge size if you wanted to stretch it). 

So, who is the "biggest" now? Is it the Loaf with Burnt?


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## WWF-VT (Sep 4, 2014)

Marketing spin 101 from Killington and Sugarloaf:

_Killington Resort, the largest ski and snowboard destination in Eastern North America

Sugarloaf is the largest ski area east of the Rockies._

Anyone knows that a  "ski and snowboard destination" is obviously not the same as a "ski area" so they both win.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

I think it is fair to say that for the majority of skiers, Killington skis bigger than Sugarloaf.


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## St. Bear (Sep 4, 2014)

Throwing in the word "destination" probably means they're counting skier visits.


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 4, 2014)

The word "destination" sounds like Marketing 101 to me.  It's ambiguous.  I'm sure they chose it for a reason...


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Domeskier (Sep 4, 2014)

You can keep your McSki Areas and their endless monotonous groomers and their billions served.  I prefer quality over quantity.  That's why, when I ski, it's Satan's Staircase or bust!


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> I prefer quality over quantity.  That's why, when I ski, it's Satan's Staircase or bust!


You do understand that you will have to attend an intensive two-day training session before they will let you on Satan's Staircase, don't you?


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## deadheadskier (Sep 4, 2014)

If the Loaf throws a lift up Burnt, I think they could make the claim.  As it is now where so much of the acreage requires hiking in or out, I don't really count Burnt so much in my view of how large Sugarloaf is.  Same way I don't really count Slidebrook at Sugarbush in thinking about how large that ski area is.

IMO, Killington skis the biggest in the East right now.


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## Domeskier (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> You do understand that you will have to attend an intensive two-day training session before they will let you on Satan's Staircase, don't you?



Only two days?  I wonder how they got that by the insurers!


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

Heres the rundown between the two:
Trails - Sugarloaf
Acres - Killington, but Sugarloaf claims the largest "developed" skiable acres. Not sure what that means. 
Miles - Killington
Vertical - Killington claims the largest, but Sugarloaf claims the largest "most continuous" - which is true. 
Lifts - Sugarloaf

So, with that said, they both appear to be right, in their own minds.


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## bigbog (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> I think it is fair to say that for the majority of skiers, Killington skis bigger than Sugarloaf.



I love Killington's terrain as much as Sugarloaf's....but it's over 300mi one way for me..and the "majority of skiers" who go to experience the _Ultimate in Excellence _are terminal Intermediates.  What does some other person's opinion of a mountain influence my thoughts of it and how to ski it?????  Very strange.
Much more fun to just go and ski the mtn for all its worth....


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## trackbiker (Sep 4, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Heres the rundown between the two:
> 
> Vertical - Killington claims the largest, but Sugarloaf claims the largest "most continuous" - which is true.
> 
> So, with that said, they both appear to be right, in their own minds.



If we are talking the "East" like in the title of this thread and not New England, Whiteface has them both beat on vertical.


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## Domeskier (Sep 4, 2014)

Do the numbers for Killington reflect all its secret stashes?  Could we have another run down of them here for the sake of completeness?


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Vertical - Killington claims the largest, but Sugarloaf claims the largest "most continuous" - which is true.


I've always felt that vertical drop is Killington's biggest deception.  Killington is an example of people perceiving the sum as better than the parts.  Several peaks at Killington, if they stood on their own, would not be considered to be anything special.  And I'm of the opinion that too much time is spent on connector trails at a place like Killington.

On the other hand, Sugarloaf should not be so smug about their vertical drop.  Their lift that covers the most vertical drop only covers 1,750 feet.  Compare this to the K-1 Gondola that covers 1,642 feet.  I've never been a fan of taking multiple lifts if it can be avoided.  I tend to stick to one lift if at all possible.  So for a person like me, Killington might not ski that much shorter than Sugarloaf.


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

trackbiker said:


> If we are talking the "East" like in the title of this thread and not New England, Whiteface has them both beat on vertical.



I totally forgot about that. Good point!


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

trackbiker said:


> If we are talking the "East" like in the title of this thread and not New England, Whiteface has them both beat on vertical.


But again, vertical does not necessarily equate to "skiing bigger".  The vertical at Whiteface is really chopped up.  The summit quad at Whiteface is 1,830 vertical feet.  But... the gondola is 2,456 vertical feet.  So for those skiing the gondola, Whiteface does indeed ski bigger "vertical-wise" than Killington or Sugarloaf.


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> I've always felt that vertical drop is Killington's biggest deception.  Killington is an example of people perceiving the sum as better than the parts.  Several peaks at Killington, if they stood on their own, would not be considered to be anything special.  And I'm of the opinion that too much time is spent on connector trails at a place like Killington.
> 
> On the other hand, Sugarloaf should not be so smug about their vertical drop.  Their lift that covers the most vertical drop only covers 1,750 feet.  Compare this to the K-1 Gondola that covers 1,642 feet.  I've never been a fan of taking multiple lifts if it can be avoided.  I tend to stick to one lift if at all possible.  So for a person like me, Killington might not ski that much shorter than Sugarloaf.



All true, and with that said, the largest single lift vertical in the east would goto Stowe. My Bad, didn't realize Whiteface's gondola was the big.


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## marcski (Sep 4, 2014)

Perhaps K is including Pico when it describes itself as the "Largest Ski and Snowboard Destination"?


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

bigbog said:


> What does some other person's opinion of a mountain influence my thoughts of it and how to ski it?????  Very strange.


Another's opinions don't have to.  It's completely up to you.  But if people didn't share their opinions on this forum, it would be a very boring place.


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## St. Bear (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> But again, vertical does not necessarily equate to "skiing bigger".  The vertical at Whiteface is really chopped up.  The summit quad at Whiteface is 1,830 vertical feet.  But... the gondola is 2,456 vertical feet.  So for those skiing the gondola, Whiteface does indeed ski bigger "vertical-wise" than Killington or Sugarloaf.



While it takes two lifts to get to the summit of Whiteface, describing the mountain as chopped up is not accurate.  They ran the Olympic down hill there.  Twice.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> While it takes two lifts to get to the summit of Whiteface, describing the mountain as chopped up is not accurate.  They ran the Olympic down hill there.  Twice.


That's definitely a fair comment.  However, I did not mean to suggest that you _can't_ ski the entirety of the vertical.  Rather, I was referring to the patterns of recreational skiers and not FIS downhill racers.  My hunch is that the vast majority of recreational skiers don't ski the entire vertical on most of their runs.  I thought that this was more relevant since there are lots more recreational skiers than FIS downhill racers at Whiteface on any given day.

In any event, vertical that requires more than one lift to access, and takes the form of pods, is "chopped up" IMHO.  Your standards may be different.  It's certainly subjective.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 4, 2014)

I personally could care less about who is the largest. I actually dislike really big resorts so for me Sugarloaf, Killington, and whoever else can battle it out all they want while enjoy the smaller mountains where the vibe and skiing are far better.


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## St. Bear (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> That's definitely a fair comment.  However, I did not mean to suggest that you _can't_ ski the entirety of the vertical.  I was referring to the patterns of recreational skiers rather than FIS downhill racers.  My hunch is that the vast majority of recreational skiers don't ski the entire vertical on most of their runs.



True.  I would think that the majority of lower intermediates and below stay on the bottom half, and advanced skiers stay at the top.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> True.  I would think that the majority of lower intermediates and below stay on the bottom half, and advanced skiers stay at the top.


That has certainly been my experience at Whiteface.  And for the record, Whiteface is one of my all-time favorite mountains.  I see it as Wildcat's bad-ass uncle.  I have an affinity for more old-school trails rather than the mega-freeways at places like Stratton.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 4, 2014)

mbedle said:


> Heres the rundown between the two:
> Trails - Sugarloaf
> Acres - Killington, but Sugarloaf claims the largest "developed" skiable acres. Not sure what that means.
> Miles - Killington
> ...



I think this is a pretty solid evaluation of mountains true vertical. They have Sugarloaf at 3 behind Whiteface and the Bush.

http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-east-coast-snowboarding.php


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## x10003q (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> But again, vertical does not necessarily equate to "skiing bigger".  The vertical at Whiteface is really chopped up.  The summit quad at Whiteface is 1,830 vertical feet.  But... the gondola is 2,456 vertical feet.  So for those skiing the gondola, Whiteface does indeed ski bigger "vertical-wise" than Killington or Sugarloaf.



The WF gondola is a crappy lift to yoyo and it really a lift that serves nobody. For experts, all the good stuff is the top 1500 vertical of Little Whiteface ( the top of Gondola). The run below the midstation back to the gondola base is a long, boring run out. There is only 1 blue trail off the top (Excelsior) and it can become an icy, high speed highway with lots of people playing downhill racer on the way down. There is no green trail off the gondola:-o. 

They have managed to install a Gondola that delivers people on terrain that is too tough for almost all green skiers and many blue skiers - exactly the people who want to use the gondola.

As much as I love Whiteface, the various blue and green level family members and friends I travel with have no desire to go back to WF.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

x10003q said:


> The WF gondola is a crappy lift to yoyo and it really a lift that serves nobody.


Since it has been a long time since I have skied Whiteface, I was assuming that the Wolf Run and Wolf trails made skiing the gondola attractive to advanced skiers.


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## bigbog (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Another's opinions don't have to.  It's completely up to you.  But if people didn't share their opinions on this forum, it would be a very boring place.



Well I hope you enjoy your _Biggest and Best_ type of marketing BS....but imho, there are often more interesting things to talk about, that's all.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

bigbog said:


> I love Killington's terrain....
> *I just could do without the maze of merges *that the busy resorts have adopted, but then it makes traversing to the other end of the resort _quicker, _which would not be my priority if I had a say...  They don't call it K-mart for nothing. *...   I think if they cut off the traversing merges there and at the Loaf as  well...it would be a ton more enjoyable experience instead of spending  most of one's time watching for skiers entering.*



I hadnt thought about this before, but I think  Killington is the worst place I've ever skied in terms of merges, it  felt like I was driving around NYC at times.



trackbiker said:


> If we are talking the "East" like in the title of this thread and not New England, *Whiteface has them both beat on vertical.*



Yeah, and it's not even close.

You notice a major difference in how long your run is from the summit of Whiteface (assuming it's actually open)  than other eastern resorts.   Regardless though, Killington's real  vertical is relatively puny compared to plenty of other eastern ski  areas.  Not even in the top-10.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

bigbog said:


> Well I hope you enjoy your _Biggest and Best_ type of marketing BS....but imho, there are often more interesting things to talk about, that's all.


I guess I'm not sure what your point is.  Nobody here has suggested that you had to talk about this.  Are you trying to dictate what others can talk about?  Most people who are not interested in a conversation simply don't participate rather than acting condescendingly toward those that have expressed an interest.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Regardless though, Killington's real  vertical is relatively puny compared to plenty of other eastern ski  areas.  Not even in the top-10.


+1


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## Nick (Sep 4, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> You can keep your McSki Areas and their endless monotonous groomers and their billions served.  I prefer quality over quantity.  That's why, when I ski, it's Satan's Staircase or bust!


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## x10003q (Sep 4, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> While it takes two lifts to get to the summit of Whiteface, describing the mountain as chopped up is not accurate.  They ran the Olympic down hill there.  Twice.



There was no alpine skiing in the 1932 Lake Placid Olympics.


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## Smellytele (Sep 4, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> While it takes two lifts to get to the summit of Whiteface, describing the mountain as chopped up is not accurate.  They ran the Olympic down hill there.  Twice.



While the Olympics were held twice in Lake Placid, there was no alpine events the first time in 1932.


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## Nick (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> I guess I'm not sure what your point is.  Nobody here has suggested that you had to talk about this.  Are you trying to dictate what others can talk about?  Most people who are not interested in a conversation simply don't participate rather than acting condescendingly toward those that have expressed an interest.



Right. I said right in the OP that this is obviously driven by marketing.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

x10003q said:


> There was no alpine skiing in the 1932 Lake Placid Olympics.


Well... they did have both a men's and women's downhill in 1980.  ;-)


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> In any event, *vertical that requires more than one lift to access, and takes the form of pods, is "chopped up"* IMHO.  Your standards may be different.  It's certainly subjective.



But you're wrong in that regard too, Whiteface's vertical is far and away #1 in the east, even with that definition (which I agree with).



x10003q said:


> *They have managed to install a Gondola that delivers people on terrain that is too tough for almost all green skiers and many blue skiers - exactly the people who want to use the gondola.*



This is so true, the mismanagement is staggering.  Not to mention, there's absolutely no point in taking the gondola given you can hit all the same terrain via Little Whiteface.



x10003q said:


> As much as I love Whiteface, *the various blue and green level family  members and friends I travel with have no desire to go back to WF.*



The lack of terrain for beginners and lower intermediates is a problem.  Not only that, but several "Blue squares" at Whiteface would be Black Diamonds anywhere in New England, or at very least they have some legitimate diamond sections to them.


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## x10003q (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Since it has been a long time since I have skied Whiteface, I was assuming that the Wolf Run and Wolf trails made skiing the gondola attractive to advanced skiers.



They are fine runs but the Bear Double seems to serve Wolf and Wolf Run.:grin:


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## x10003q (Sep 4, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> This is so true, the mismanagement is staggering.  Not to mention, there's absolutely no point in taking the gondola given you can hit all the same terrain via Little Whiteface.



The ORDA Board is stuffed with Lake Placid First members and they were pissed when Gore was getting a new Gondola to replace the original, 35 year old gondola. So they ordered themselves a new, expensive, useless gondola for Whiteface that fails to serve the people who really want to use it.



BenedictGomez said:


> The lack of terrain for beginners and lower intermediates is a problem.  Not only that, but several "Blue squares" at Whiteface would be Black Diamonds anywhere in New England, or at very least they have some legitimate diamond sections to them.



This is a big problem that many people like to ignore. The most recent example of this is the blue rated Wilmington trail off Lookout Mtn. This trail is loaded with some hairy drops with rock walls on the right and steep drop offs to the left (like Hunter). Make sure the snow is good before you bring your loved ones.:???:


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

x10003q said:


> This is a big problem that many people like to ignore. The most recent example of this is the blue rated Wilmington trail off Lookout Mtn. *This trail is loaded with some hairy drops with rock walls on the right and steep drop offs to the left* (like Hunter). *Make sure the snow is good before you bring your loved ones*.:???:



Learned this the hard-way last year.  Two-years ago we hit that trail in great snow conditions, and it was my intermediate gf's favorite trail.  

So last year we go up there and it's night and day different.  She was actually scared, which is not a good thing.  She made it down without falling, but it took a while and needless to say we only skied the trail once given the conditions stunk.  But that last steep section near the bottom is not "Intermediate" by anyone's standards with poor snow.


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## Domeskier (Sep 4, 2014)

Nick said:


>



:grin:  I hope Sundown hasn't spent all it's marketing budget yet!


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## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2014)

I think the North Ridge chair at MT. Ellen would give others a run for their money for continuous vertical off of one lift. Anyone happen to know it's vertical rise?


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## trackbiker (Sep 4, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I think the North Ridge chair at MT. Ellen would give others a run for their money for continuous vertical off of one lift. Anyone happen to know it's vertical rise?



1690' according to skilifts.org


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

Actually looks to be around 1,700. Hard to tell exactly.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 4, 2014)

http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-in-new-england.php

Killington is the biggest offender lmao


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> *I think the North Ridge chair at MT. Ellen would give others a run for their money for continuous vertical off of one lift. Anyone happen to know it's vertical rise?*



It's 2,552 vertical according to Mountain Vertical, second place in the east to Whiteface.



skiNEwhere said:


> *Killington is the biggest offender* lmao



I guess they figured going the honest route with:

_"Killington, the 22nd biggest vertical in the East"_

Wasn't very appealing.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 4, 2014)

Does anyone here actually lap the skyeship gondola from the bottom?

I'd venture to guess no


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

Anecdotally, I also believe:

_"Killington, we have almost as much vertical as Attitash"

_Was rejected by marketing.


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

Believe it or not, we use to back in the late 80's or early 90's. Was just learning how to ski and board. It was fun from a beginners point of view. So I would say that a lot of people do, just not more experienced people. Maybe some parents with kid learning how to ski.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Does anyone here actually lap the skyeship gondola from the bottom?
> 
> I'd venture to guess no


Like the earlier poster, I can remember doing it when I was much newer to skiing.  There was a novelty to the length of the run.  But of course this dates back to when the gondola went all they way to Killington Peak.  I also remember being on the "10 mile" Juggernaut trail.  I bailed out as soon as possible after realizing what a joke the trail was.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 4, 2014)

Skied Juggernaut top to bottom once as a kid.  That was enough.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Does anyone here actually lap the skyeship gondola from the bottom?
> 
> I'd venture to guess no


I've done it from K-Peak just for fun a few times. Also did Northeast Passage a few times from K-Peak to when it was still open. I often park at Skyeship for the convience.


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Like the earlier poster, I can remember doing it when I was much newer to skiing.  There was a novelty to the length of the run.  But of course this dates back to when the gondola went all they way to Killington Peak.  I also remember being on the "10 mile" Juggernaut trail.  I bailed out as soon as possible after realizing what a joke the trail was.



My friends use to drag me on Juggernaut, when I was learning how to board. Holy shit, talk about a painful experience. But I did have some kick ass calf muscles after the season!!!!


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

Looking at that list I was surprised to learn Le Massif is #4 on the east coast.  I need to get there one of these years.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 4, 2014)

mbedle said:


> My friends use to drag me on Juggernaut, when I was learning how to board. Holy shit, talk about a painful experience. But I did have some kick ass calf muscles after the season!!!!



You need better friends 

Let me guess, they were skiers?


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## mbedle (Sep 4, 2014)

You got it.... I don't ski with them anymore. Now days, I actually twitch a little when I get to a run out or traverse. LOL


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## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Looking at that list I was surprised to learn Le Massif is #4 on the east coast.  I need to get there one of these years.


Base of the mountain is just about at sea level though. You now park at the top of the mountain. Wasn't always that way but parking on top saves about a 1/2 hour drive time from QC. It can get a little icy at the bottom sometimes with the humid air blowing in off the St. Lawrence. I'd highly recommend it though if you've never been.


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## Cornhead (Sep 4, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> The lack of terrain for beginners and lower intermediates is a problem.  Not only that, but several "Blue squares" at Whiteface would be Black Diamonds anywhere in New England, or at very least they have some legitimate diamond sections to them.


This is true, dependent on conditions, the new Willmington Trail is long and mellow, save for two drops that can be very intimidating for less skilled skiers when icy or bumped up. Skiing from the summit often involves negotiating a steep sheet of ice for a hundred yards or so until turnable snow is reached, no biggie, but it can also be intimidating.



Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## jimk (Sep 4, 2014)

I haven't been to Killington in 13 years, but I have a lot of great memories from skiing there about 10 different trips between approximately '76-'01.  It was the first big New England ski area I got somewhat familiar with.  A couple of times I was up there when my kids were young and lapping Skyeship and Sunrise was something they really enjoyed.   I skied both Whiteface and Sugarloaf last winter and in my memories Killington still looms larger.  I guess I need to get back to Killington sometime soon to see how I still feel?  There's a lot of quality black diamond terrain from Canyon/K-1 to Needles Eye to Bear Mtn.


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## VTKilarney (Sep 4, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Looking at that list I was surprised to learn Le Massif is #4 on the east coast.  I need to get there one of these years.


Get there soon.  It's got some financial issues.


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## ss20 (Sep 4, 2014)

Killington skis the largest.  Even without connector trails and the bottom of Skye Peak it would still ski larger than anyone else.


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## jimk (Sep 4, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Looking at that list I was surprised to learn Le Massif is #4 on the east coast.  I need to get there one of these years.


Le Massif isn't as expansive as some others mentioned in this thread, but IIRC there are three high speed lifts that each have a vertical in the 2000-2200 foot range, so it's among the best in the East if your intention was to make repeat laps of big vert.  Although I think I heard operation of one of the HSQs was curtailed last season due to budget issues??


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 4, 2014)

jimk said:


> Although I think I heard operation of one of the HSQs was curtailed last season due to budget issues??


 
That is correct. I don't remember the name of it, but it's the lift all the way to the lookers left of the Mtn


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2014)

_"Killington; 15% less vertical than Stratton, 150% less luxury"_

That was a marketing failure as well.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 4, 2014)

jimk said:


> Le Massif isn't as expansive as some others mentioned in this thread, but IIRC there are three high speed lifts that each have a vertical in the 2000-2200 foot range, so it's among the best in the East if your intention was to make repeat laps of big vert.  Although I think I heard operation of one of the HSQs was curtailed last season due to budget issues??


Both quads serve the same terrain. No great loss not running one.


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## joshua segal (Sep 5, 2014)

With Mt. Ellen, the Lynx, Castlerock, Heaven's Gate and the Valley area; I think that Sugarbush skis larger than Killington.  That being said, Killington is an easy day-trip for me.  The extra hour to Sugarbush is "killer" for me.

Killington wins as my favorite area because of early/late season skiing, as well as its proximity to me (i.e. major metropolitan areas).

With regard to Sugarloaf, if the snowfields aren't open, I prefer the laid back feel of Saddleback to Sugarloaf, but neither holds a candle to Killington on the early/late season product.


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## ALLSKIING (Sep 5, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Skied Juggernaut top to bottom once as a kid.  That was enough.


That's probably why you ski the speed you do now :lol:


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## abc (Sep 6, 2014)

I have a love/hate relationship with Killington. 

Yes, I agree with many it skis large. Why? Because it has MANY trails, of different aspect and different character. So in a weekend, I typically don't get to hit all the trails I want to try. (partly because I would repeat a trail if condition is good. And with so many different faces of K, some trails will bound to have decent condition)

The same thing that makes K "skis large" is also the same thing that makes it skis short. Shorter than many mountain that has less overall elevation. So when I hit a trail in good condition, it almost ALWAYS end far too soon!

The annoying traverse and merges are just side effect of the layout of the mountain.  

But I'm also not a huge fan of single lift serving a huge vertical either. More than 1000', the condition on top is quite often very different than the condition at the bottom. Do I really want to deal with the slush every run in order to ski the perfect powder/corn at the upper mountain? Or do I care to deal with the 35mph wind at the top station in order not to miss the perfectly groomed surfaces at the bottom half? 

To me, there's a perfect middle ground of size/length/vertical. I love Platty, just wish it gets more snow. I love Sugarbush, just wish it's less crowded on weekends. Stowe is great too when I can afford it. Killington? It's not my favorite. Too big for my need, too "chopped up" for my liking. Still, I find it enjoyable enough when I do go there for a day or two.


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## Edd (Sep 6, 2014)

abc said:


> Killington? It's not my favorite.



Hmm...this has bumper sticker potential.


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 6, 2014)

Edd said:


> Hmm...this has bumper sticker potential.



At the very least, she should use it as her signature...!

Well done, Edd.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## goldsbar (Sep 6, 2014)

I finally made it back to Killington last year after a ~20 year hiatus.  The width was impressive, with lots of mountains to choose from.  None of them felt long.  All of the trails felt crowded even when the lifts were ski on/off.  Clearly a lot of people like the place and there are a lot of good skiers (and a lot of not so good sitting in the middle of every trail), but I don't see going back.  Hunter Mountain vibe and the trails at Hunter actually feel longer.

I see why a lot of people buy/rent houses nearby.  They clearly put a lot into snow blowing and are always open early and late.  I just didn't find the trails interesting - or maybe it was the fact that there were always people next to me or splayed out on every good bump run line.  The painful extra hour to SB/MRG/etc. is worth it from my perspective.


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## Handbanana (Sep 6, 2014)

goldsbar said:


> I finally made it back to Killington last year after a ~20 year hiatus.  The width was impressive, with lots of mountains to choose from.  None of them felt long.  All of the trails felt crowded even when the lifts were ski on/off.  Clearly a lot of people like the place and there are a lot of good skiers (and a lot of not so good sitting in the middle of every trail), but I don't see going back.  Hunter Mountain vibe and the trails at Hunter actually feel longer.
> 
> I see why a lot of people buy/rent houses nearby.  They clearly put a lot into snow blowing and are always open early and late.  I just didn't find the trails interesting - or maybe it was the fact that there were always people next to me or splayed out on every good bump run line.  The painful extra hour to SB/MRG/etc. is worth it from my perspective.



Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. Went for the 1st time at the end of March, felt the exact same way, minus Hunter cuz I'm only heading north. Of the 10+ mountains I hit last year, I never noticed such a messed up relation of too much uphill capacity to not enough downhill space.


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## xlr8r (Sep 6, 2014)

joshua segal said:


> With Mt. Ellen, the Lynx, Castlerock, Heaven's Gate and the Valley area; I think that Sugarbush skis larger than Killington.  That being said, Killington is an easy day-trip for me.  The extra hour to Sugarbush is "killer" for me.
> 
> Killington wins as my favorite area because of early/late season skiing, as well as its proximity to me (i.e. major metropolitan areas).
> 
> With regard to Sugarloaf, if the snowfields aren't open, I prefer the laid back feel of Saddleback to Sugarloaf, but neither holds a candle to Killington on the early/late season product.



I agree with this.  While Sugarbush might not have all the trails of Killington, the pods at Sugarbush  all have big vert and are well segregated making the place feel huge.  Also riding the Slidebrook express from one side to the the other feels like traveling to another area entirely as you cannot really see Mount Ellen's trails from Lincoln Peak, and vice versa.  Sugarbush, Killington, and Sunday River all feel equally large for the most part.  

I have not been to Sugarloaf, but I agree with those that say the hike to terrain should not count.  Terrain should only count towards the areas total acreage if it is entirely lift served.  That means you don't have to hike to ski it, or hike out after skiing it.

Another comparison is the battle for size in NH.  While Bretton Woods claims to be the largest in the state, but to me at least Loon and Cannon (when Mittersil chair is open) feel much larger.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 6, 2014)

abc said:


> * Killington? It's not my favorite.*





Edd said:


> Hmm...*this has bumper sticker potential*.



I agree; it's pretty dang good.  I feel like it's missing a little something though........



goldsbar said:


> I finally made it back to Killington last year  after a ~20 year hiatus....  All of the trails  felt crowded even when the lifts were ski on/off.  Clearly a lot of  people like the place and there are a lot of good skiers (and a lot of  not so good sitting in the middle of every trail), but I don't see going  back.  Hunter Mountain vibe and the trails at Hunter actually feel  longer.*The painful extra hour to SB/MRG/etc. is worth it *from my  perspective.



I've GOT it!


_"Killington; it's not your favorite, but who wants to drive another 45 minutes?" _


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## steamboat1 (Sep 7, 2014)

I really do feel sorry for weekend warriors.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 7, 2014)

Love Killington haters too.

Really I do.


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## ScottySkis (Sep 7, 2014)

Killington is huge just a lot several 1600 vertical hills. It still one of the best to me because it gets natural snow a lot of the time. Do I like the mountains to north vermont and Cannon better yes but i need 3 day weekend for those. K I can do drive 3.5 hours ski sleep ski go home. That the plan this year when they get snow a few times.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 7, 2014)

ScottySkis said:


> Killington is huge just a lot several 1600 vertical hills. It still one of the best to me because it gets natural snow a lot of the time. Do I like the mountains to north vermont and Cannon better yes but i need 3 day weekend for those. K I can do drive 3.5 hours ski sleep ski go home. That the plan this year when they get snow a few times.


If you're ever at K during the week let me know. I'd love to make some turns with you. I'd even have a relatively inexpensive ($36) place for you to stay nearby so you don't have to sleep in the car. I know you're working now so weekdays are probably tough but that's the only time I'm around.


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## Cornhead (Sep 7, 2014)

joshua segal said:


> but neither holds a candle to Killington on the early/late season product.


Depends on the year, I skied Sugarloaf in late April a few yrs ago, the back side of the mountain was open, it was surreal. I am happy Killington has a renewed commitment to early/late season, it's half the distance of Sugarloaf for me, and a lot closer than Jay too. 

I've been skiing K late season the last 3 yrs. I hadn't been to K in 10 yrs prior. The first time I skied there I was amazed, and turned off, by the number of people on the cross trails. If you wanted to continue on a trail beyond the cross trail, you'd have to stop and wait for a break in the traffic jam to carry on. Luckily I knew my K pass would let me ski Pico, so I spent the afternoon there. I'd like to ski K mid-season again sometime...on a weekday. 



Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## snoseek (Sep 7, 2014)

As much as I really like the in your face heaving mountain that is Sugarloaf Killington skis way bigger IMO....hell it skis bigger than a lot of western resorts.


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## Highway Star (Sep 7, 2014)

Wow.  Not to single anybody out, but there are MANY idiots in this thread.

- Killington is currently claiming all of it's woods to be skiable, for a total of over 1500 acres, hence the claim of the largest in the east.

- Nobody skis at Sugarloaf.

- Killington's Skyeship Gondola is actually the tallest lift in the east, at 2,522 vertical feet, and also the longest at 12,953 (over 2-1/2 miles).  Its one of the longest and tallest in the country. Yes, it's two separate sections, but you ride the same cabin all the way up.  Takes about 15 minutes to ride.  Yes, you can lap it, thousands of people do every weekend.  

- Killington has 3,050 ft of CONTINUOUS VERTICAL.  Try skiing it with a group of people, as fast as possible tucking the whole way, then come back and tell me its "boring".

- Killington's K-1 Gondola is the highest lift in Vermont, at around 4,150 feet.

- Killington has 3 lifts around 1,500 ft of vert. K-1 Gondola, Skye Peak Quad, Skyeship Stage 2.  Summit Quad at Pico is also around 1,500 ft.  Most other lifts are around 1,200 ft of vert, most of which serve sustained intermediate to expert pitches.

- Killington is built on a ridge, the terrain is typically spread out in various trail pods of around 800 to 1500 feet of vert.

- Juggernaut is no longer 10 miles long, and should only be skied on a icy, sunny day of moderate temperature and low wind, with a few friends and a backpack full of tasty beverages.  Take ski poles from group, strap to backpack, hand out beverages, ski leisurely and enjoy the forest.

- The flattest trail at Killington is not Juggernaut. Its actually Carpenters run.  Dead flat in some places with no in run.  If you begin the trail from a dead stop, skating is mandatory at some point even in the fastest icy conditions.


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## abc (Sep 7, 2014)

> - Nobody skis at Sugarloaf.


And he calls others IDIOTS:roll:


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## ss20 (Sep 7, 2014)

abc said:


> And he calls others IDIOTS:roll:



I was thinking the same thing.

And 3 lifts "around" 1,500 vertical is not at all impressive.

But, I do find that Killington skis the biggest.  Sunday River skis really big too...which I'm surprised nobody has mentioned.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 7, 2014)

No one thinks of Killington as having 3,000 ft of vertical. What is there 1 or 2 route options and all of them involve a lot of work.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 7, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> - Nobody skis at Sugarloaf.
> 
> - Killington's Skyeship Gondola is actually the tallest lift in the east, at 2,522 vertical feet, and also the longest at 12,953 (over 2-1/2 miles).  Its one of the longest and tallest in the country. Yes, it's two separate sections, but you ride the same cabin all the way up.  Takes about 15 minutes to ride.  Yes, you can lap it, thousands of people do every weekend.



nobody skis Sugarloaf, but thousands of people lap the boring Skyeship gnar every weekend?

um, who's the idiot?


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## WWF-VT (Sep 7, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Wow.  Not to single anybody out, but there are MANY idiots in
> 
> - Nobody skis at Sugarloaf
> 
> .



When did Sugarloaf become a snowboard only mountain?


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## WWF-VT (Sep 7, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> No one thinks of Killington as having 3,000 ft of vertical. What is there 1 or 2 route options and all of them involve a lot of work.



No one but Highway Star and Killington's marketing department.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 7, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> *- Killington has 3,050 ft of CONTINUOUS VERTICAL. *





MadMadWorld said:


> * No one thinks of Killington as having 3,000 ft of vertical.*



_"Killington; 3050 feet of Continuous Vertical (please don't ask us to explain how)"_


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## ss20 (Sep 7, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> _"Killington; 3050 feet of Continuous Vertical (please don't ask us to explain how)"_



It's easy!  Just take Juggernaut from the peak and cross-country your way to the bottom of Bear.  Then, hike across the parking lot to the abandoned trail next to the road.  Be sure to take in the serenity of the woods as you ski next to speeding cars.  Then merge onto the shitshow of Great Eastern.  Experts can take Valley Plunge... if its open (which it won't be).  Return back to the K-1 base by riding in a hot, sweaty gondola car that smells like cigarettes.  From the top of the Skyeship find your way to Skylark (which might take awhile).  Proceed down the ice of Skyelark as you and hundreds of your gaper friends travel down one of our few intermediate cruisers.  At the bottom, skate past the K-1 lodge without getting hit, and you'll find the K-1 gondola...as well as the hundreds of others waiting to get on.


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## Edd (Sep 7, 2014)

Thank you everyone. I just laughed for a few minutes straight. Especially HS!  You are ridiculous in all the right ways, my friend.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 7, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Love Killington haters.
> 
> Really I do.


Yep !


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 8, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Love Killington haters too.
> 
> Really I do.
> 
> ...



Did you really just quote yourself?


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 8, 2014)

If you need to use your poles to push yourself to get to the bottom, it doesn't count. I love Killington, but their vert is misleading.


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## ScottySkis (Sep 8, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> If you're ever at K during the week let me know. I'd love to make some turns with you. I'd even have a relatively inexpensive ($36) place for you to stay nearby so you don't have to sleep in the car. I know you're working now so weekdays are probably tough but that's the only time I'm around.



For sure I will. I might go their thanks giving T day not sure yet.


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## Highway Star (Sep 8, 2014)

Hey, I just found this video of the last Alpinezone trip to Killington!  Looks pretty good to me!


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## Smellytele (Sep 8, 2014)

Your sense of good and mine are different. Looks like typical human pylons of Killington skiing.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 8, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Hey, I just found this video of the last Alpinezone trip to Killington!  Looks pretty good to me!



Was that you at 2:54? You went flying past us so quickly I couldn't tell.


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## rtjcbrown (Sep 8, 2014)

If you like that, you might want to try Belt Parkway at Hunter Mtn on a Saturday.


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## Highway Star (Sep 8, 2014)

ss20 said:


> It's easy!  Just take Juggernaut from the peak and cross-country your way to the bottom of Bear.  Then, hike across the parking lot to the abandoned trail next to the road.  Be sure to take in the serenity of the woods as you ski next to speeding cars.  Then merge onto the shitshow of Great Eastern.  Experts can take Valley Plunge... if its open (which it won't be).  Return back to the K-1 base by riding in a hot, sweaty gondola car that smells like cigarettes.  From the top of the Skyeship find your way to Skylark (which might take awhile).  Proceed down the ice of Skyelark as you and hundreds of your gaper friends travel down one of our few intermediate cruisers.  At the bottom, skate past the K-1 lodge without getting hit, and you'll find the K-1 gondola...as well as the hundreds of others waiting to get on.



Hey I found this video of you slaying the heck out of Juggernaut!  Look sick!!


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## rtjcbrown (Sep 8, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Hey I found this video of you slaying the heck out of Juggernaut!  Look sick!!



Why did they film this in Slow-motion?


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## VTKilarney (Sep 8, 2014)

That video of Juggernaut just brought back nightmares.  Now I know why we bailed at the first chance.  When Juggernaut was a 10 mile trail, it only dropped an average of 306 vertical feet per mile!


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## Domeskier (Sep 8, 2014)

Lots of tracks into the woods on that Jug vid.  Did HS inadvertently reveal more K secret stashes??


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## dlague (Sep 8, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> If you need to use your poles to push yourself to get to the bottom, it doesn't count. I love Killington, but their vert is misleading.



Wasn't there a misleading vert thread?


.......


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## WWF-VT (Sep 8, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Hey, I just found this video of the last Alpinezone trip to Killington!  Looks pretty good to me!



Looks like a lot of traversing and dodging other skiers - just a typical day at Killington


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## machski (Sep 8, 2014)

Killington could put this to bed if they would ever do the interconnect to Pico.  Heck, they'd even increase their maximum pod vert as Pico skis bigger vertically than any peak at K.  But wait, they're parent company as some little legal issue out west in Utah I think....


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 8, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Lots of tracks into the woods on that Jug vid.  Did HS inadvertently reveal more K secret stashes??




There is probably no shortage of secret stashes off of Juggernaut.  Just bring your cross country skis.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone mobile app


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## steamboat1 (Sep 8, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> If you're ever at K during the week let me know. I'd love to make some turns with you. I'd even have a relatively inexpensive ($36) place for you to stay nearby so you don't have to sleep in the car. I know you're working now so weekdays are probably tough but that's the only time I'm around.





ScottySkis said:


> For sure I will. I might go their thanks giving T day not sure yet.


Most likely the first weekend in Dec. will be my first trip. I think it's the 6th through 8th this year. We have a small group of guys ("THE BOYZ") who have been going up that weekend for years (whatever the 1st weekend in Dec. is). You may remember me talking about it in the past. Probably one of the only weekends I'll ski all season. I already have a bunch of K 2 for 1 tickets just for that weekend. You're welcome to come.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 8, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Lots of tracks into the woods on that Jug vid.  *Did HS inadvertently reveal more K secret stashes??*



He's gone rogue.



machski said:


> *Killington could put this to bed if they would ever do the interconnect to Pico*.



Pico's vertical is greater than Killington's, but it's still sub-2000 foot.   

At least they'd be above Stratton at that point though.


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## Puck it (Sep 8, 2014)




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## steamboat1 (Sep 8, 2014)

I believe the base elevation of the K-1 lodge is second only to Bolton Valley's base elevation.


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## Highway Star (Sep 8, 2014)

Domeskier said:


> Lots of tracks into the woods on that Jug vid.  Did HS inadvertently reveal more K secret stashes??



Its so long people had to pull off to the side of the trail and pee.


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## Highway Star (Sep 8, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Pico's vertical is greater than Killington's, but it's still sub-2000 foot.



You're a moron if you believe the idiots from that mountain vertical site.


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## Puck it (Sep 8, 2014)

HS ripping it up.


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## mbedle (Sep 8, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> You're a moron if you believe the idiots from that mountain vertical site.



Why do you say that?


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## Domeskier (Sep 8, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Its so long people had to pull off to the side of the trail and pee.



+1


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## Highway Star (Sep 8, 2014)

I need to ski in jeans more often.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 8, 2014)

Puck it said:


> HS ripping it up.



Okay wait a minute.....HS posted on biglines? Excuse me while I rofl :sly:


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## WoodCore (Sep 8, 2014)

Just to move the thread back to the original topic......... 

I'd like to nominate both Smuggs and Stowe into the mix. There not necessarily officially interconnected but if you were to count this as one ski area it would win hands down and blow the wet, tight jeans off Killington not to mention many western resorts. Even on there own accord each ski area offers an amazing amount of lift accessed ski terrain that rivals many.  

Others to throw into this mix would be Sugarbush, as mentioned previously, Jay Peak and Cannon Mtn, NH. When I think big lift accessible skiing acreage, I'm thinking slack country ski-able terrain, not necessarily slopes and trails. Don't ski where the man tells you too, figure out a way to make it work for you!


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 8, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> *You're a moron if you believe the idiots from that mountain vertical site*.



Huh?  What the hades is there _NOT_ to believe?  

Do you think they've somehow monkeyed with orbiting satellites and GPS positioning to make Killington appear to have less vertical?


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## HowieT2 (Sep 8, 2014)

WoodCore said:


> Just to move the thread back to the original topic.........
> 
> I'd like to nominate both Smuggs and Stowe into the mix. There not necessarily officially interconnected but if you were to count this as one ski area it would win hands down and blow the wet, tight jeans off Killington not to mention many western resorts. Even on there own accord each ski area offers an amazing amount of lift accessed ski terrain that rivals many.
> 
> Others to throw into this mix would be Sugarbush, as mentioned previously, Jay Peak and Cannon Mtn, NH. When I think big lift accessible skiing acreage, I'm thinking slack country ski-able terrain, not necessarily slopes and trails. Don't ski where the man tells you too, figure out a way to make it work for you!



How do you put Stowe and smuggs together, and not sugarbush and mrg?


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## ss20 (Sep 8, 2014)

HowieT2 said:


> How do you put Stowe and smuggs together, and not sugarbush and mrg?



Because you can cross-country to and from Stowe and Smuggs on a physical trail.  Sugarbush and MRG not so much.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 8, 2014)

Don't need MRG. Just put Lincoln, Slidebrook & Ellen together & it blows them all away. Don't even need to cross country for aggress or egress.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 9, 2014)

Puck it said:


> HS ripping it up.



What skis are those?


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## Highway Star (Sep 9, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> What skis are those?



'05-'06 Head Monster Im88.  Great ski, but very delicate.


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## Puck it (Sep 9, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> '05-'06 Head Monster Im88. Great ski, but very delicate.



I had the same ski.  They were a great ski until they ruined the line by switching to the Peak series.  The double metal made them very stable at speed.


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## Highway Star (Sep 9, 2014)

I'm just about ready to mount up my 4th pair ('09 model).


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## Puck it (Sep 9, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> I'm just about ready to mount up my 4th pair ('09 model).



I have mine still but no life left in the old boys for me.  I have co worker that may buy them for $100.


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## Savemeasammy (Sep 9, 2014)

^ OK guys...  That's enough.   This love fest is starting to get a little creepy...! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 9, 2014)

ss20 said:


> Because you can cross-country to and from Stowe and Smuggs on a physical trail.  Sugarbush and MRG not so much.



You can take the Long Trail very easily from Mt. Ellen to MRG.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 9, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> '05-'06 *Head Monster*



There was a girl I went to college with and that was her nickname (unbeknownst to her).



Puck it said:


> *I had the same ski.*  They were a great ski until they ruined the line by switching to the Peak series.  The double metal made them very stable at speed.



Maybe I'm wrong in my perception, but have you owned/rented/demo'd a ton of different skis?


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 9, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> *You can take the Long Trail very easily from Mt. Ellen to MRG*.



Easily; wouldn't that be a few miles on relatively flat terrain?   

The thing about Stowe/Smuggs is you can ski to either one back and forth in just a few minutes.  I used to do it all the time.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 9, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Easily; wouldn't that be a few miles on relatively flat terrain?
> 
> The thing about Stowe/Smuggs is you can ski to either one back and forth in just a few minutes.  I used to do it all the time.



It follows along the ridge so sometimes your climbing and other times it's downhill. The trail between Smuggs and Stowe is better but it's definitely not 2 miles. You absolutely need an AT setup though. I like it because once you get far enough you can just jump into the woods and follow the tracks back to MRG


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## Puck it (Sep 9, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> There was a girl I went to college with and that was her nickname (unbeknownst to her).
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong in my perception, but have you owned/rented/demo'd a ton of different skis?




Gear whore.  I have 8 pair left that are skiable.  I sold a few racing skis in the last two years.  At one point, I had 11 pair of just my own.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 9, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> You can take the Long Trail very easily from Mt. Ellen to MRG.



It's about  1.8 miles from Starks Nest to the top of Mt Ellen and it's not an easy trek.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 9, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> It's about  1.8 miles from Starks Nest to the top of Mt Ellen and it's not an easy trek.



Lol okay I guess it's longer than I thought. I've done it from Ellen to MRG but it's been awhile. I did go all the way to the top of Antelope. I just dropped into the area beyond 20th and just worked my way back towards the base.


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## benski (Sep 9, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> It's about  1.8 miles from Starks Nest to the top of Mt Ellen and it's not an easy trek.



someone who knows were they are going could probably find a nice tree line in somewhere in the middle. Having never tried this I don't for a fact but i have seen tracks coming out of the woods above inverness and the traverse over there.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 10, 2014)

benski said:


> someone who knows were they are going could probably find a nice tree line in somewhere in the middle. Having never tried this I don't for a fact but i have seen tracks coming out of the woods above inverness and the traverse over there.



The LT is not very well blazed through this section and going south from the Mt Ellen summit for a long stretch it runs about 50-100' below the ridgecrest on the west side. If you don't know what you are doing it's a good way to get lost in the deep snow in the winter. There is a fairly well known trail that drops to the west about mid way between Mt Ellen and Starks Nest at MRG....


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 10, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> The LT is not very well blazed through this section and going south from the Mt Ellen fsummit for a long stretch it runs about 50-100' below the ridgecrest on the east side.  If you don't know what you are doing it's a good way to get lost in the deep snow in the winter.  There is a fairly well known trail that drops to the east about mid way between Mt Ellen and Starks Nest at MRG....



Yea I will second that. It's a very easy place to get lost and would not recommend anyone to just "follow tracks" if you don't know where your going. There is much better gnar after you get passed Starks Nest.


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## jimk (Sep 10, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Don't need MRG. Just put Lincoln, Slidebrook & Ellen together & it blows them all away. Don't even need to cross country for aggress or egress.


I think I would agree with this, especially if I knew more about the potential of Slidebrook.  Never been to Sugarbush with someone who knew how to tap into that area.  Not asking for specifics over the internet, but are there some good long lines in Slidebrook that can currently be accessed without too much walking in and out??


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## mrvpilgrim (Sep 10, 2014)

The easiest top access is only about 20 yards from the North Link chair offload
The last couple of hundred yards  is a skate out but no walking required.
Many routes can be taken though the slide brook most have continuous slope
The exit point is on German Flats Road it requires picking up the shuttle bus that runs between the Mount Ellen and Lincoln peak Bases


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## steamboat1 (Sep 10, 2014)

mrvpilgrim said:


> The easiest top access is only about 20 yards from the North Link chair offload
> The last couple of hundred yards  is a skate out but no walking required.
> Many routes can be taken though the slide brook most have continuous slope
> The exit point is on German Flats Road it requires picking up the shuttle bus that runs between the Mount Ellen and Lincoln peak Bases


Lot's of people access it by jumping off the Slidebrook chair at the top of the first ridge after leaving Lincoln Peak. The chair is low to the ground at that point.

edit: not sure if you'd get your pass pulled if you get caught though. Like I said lots of people do it. You can see many tracks coming down from the top of that ridge.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 10, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Lot's of people access it by jumping off the Slidebrook chair at the top of the first ridge after leaving Lincoln Peak. The chair is low to the ground at that point.
> 
> edit: not sure if you'd get your pass pulled if you get caught though. Like I said lots of people do it. You can see many tracks coming down from the top of that ridge.



In all my years of skiing at Sugarbush and taking the Slidebrook chair I have never seen anyone jump from the chair.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 10, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> In all my years of skiing at Sugarbush and taking the Slidebrook chair I have never seen anyone jump from the chair.


I'm sure you've seen the tracks coming down from that ridge. How do you think they got there? Never did it myself but have seen people jump & I only ski there a few days a season.


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## Smellytele (Sep 10, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm sure you've seen the tracks coming down from that ridge. How do you think they got there? Never did it myself but have seen people jump & I only ski there a few days a season.



I have skied there only a few times and taken the Slidebrook chair even less (wife thinks it is a time sucker- I agree) and I have seen the tracks from people who have jumped.


----------



## WWF-VT (Sep 10, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm sure you've seen the tracks coming down from that ridge. How do you think they got there? Never did it myself but have seen people jump & I only ski there a few days a season.




You can get there from the top of North Lynx.  You have to be a total dumbass to jump 10 ft into rocks just to ski under the lift line.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 10, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> You can get there from the top of North Lynx.  *You have to be a total dumbass to jump 10 ft into rocks just to ski under the lift *line.



Where's your sense of adventure?


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## steamboat1 (Sep 10, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> You have to be a total dumbass to jump 10 ft into rocks just to ski under the lift line.


Just saying what I've seen with my own eyes.


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## HowieT2 (Sep 11, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> The LT is not very well blazed through this section and going south from the Mt Ellen summit for a long stretch it runs about 50-100' below the ridgecrest on the west side. If you don't know what you are doing it's a good way to get lost in the deep snow in the winter. There is a fairly well known trail that drops to the west about mid way between Mt Ellen and Starks Nest at MRG....



Ha ha!!!!   Been there, done that.  7 years ago, with My son warning me we were going wrong, I somehow led us down the west side.  It took us 2 hours to climb back up through chest deep snow.  One of those days you never forget.  Sweet turns though.  And the kids learned some good lessons, come prepared, shed layers and dads a fooking idiot sometimes.


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## HowieT2 (Sep 11, 2014)

jimk said:


> I think I would agree with this, especially if I knew more about the potential of Slidebrook.  Never been to Sugarbush with someone who knew how to tap into that area.  Not asking for specifics over the internet, but are there some good long lines in Slidebrook that can currently be accessed without too much walking in and out??



the mtn offers guided tours.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 11, 2014)

HowieT2 said:


> Ha ha!!!!   Been there, done that.  7 years ago, with M*y son warning me we were going wrong, I somehow led us down the west side.  It took us 2 hours to climb back up through chest deep snow.*  One of those days you never forget.  Sweet turns though.  And the kids learned some good lessons, come prepared, shed layers and dads a fooking idiot sometimes.



Never happened. 

According to WCAX, this only happens to people from New Jersey (and 95% of the time at Killington).


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## HowieT2 (Sep 11, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Lot's of people access it by jumping off the Slidebrook chair at the top of the first ridge after leaving Lincoln Peak. The chair is low to the ground at that point.
> 
> edit: not sure if you'd get your pass pulled if you get caught though. Like I said lots of people do it. You can see many tracks coming down from the top of that ridge.



missed this.  r u joking?


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## HowieT2 (Sep 11, 2014)

WWF-VT said:


> In all my years of skiing at Sugarbush and taking the Slidebrook chair I have never seen anyone jump from the chair.



+1.  it is not low to the ground, you would need a rope to safely lower yourself and there is no reason whatsoever (other than being high and stupid) to do this.


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## HowieT2 (Sep 11, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I'm sure you've seen the tracks coming down from that ridge. How do you think they got there? Never did it myself but have seen people jump & I only ski there a few days a season.



I've laid some of those tracks and believe me, I didnt jump off a freakin chairlift.


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## HowieT2 (Sep 11, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Never happened.
> 
> According to WCAX, this only happens to people from New Jersey (and 95% of the time at Killington).



yeah, well, I am originally from new jersey.  so there you have it.


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## Domeskier (Sep 11, 2014)

HowieT2 said:


> I've laid some of those tracks and believe me, I didnt jump off a freakin chairlift.



I wish I had jumped off that chairlift at the first summit.  It gets unnervingly high at some later points!


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## Smellytele (Sep 11, 2014)

Maybe jumping off early at the point when this video starts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M9Xjz5WHfs


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## KevinF (Sep 11, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> While it takes two lifts to get to the summit of Whiteface, describing the mountain as chopped up is not accurate.  They ran the Olympic down hill there.  Twice.



I realize I am replying to this a week late, but it should be noted that while Lake Placid has hosted the winter Olympics twice, the first time (in 1932) did not include alpine skiing events, only nordic.

So unless you're counting the men's and women's downhills of 1980 as "twice", an Olympic downhill has only been held there once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_Winter_Olympics


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## jimk (Sep 12, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> While the Olympics were held twice in Lake Placid, there was no alpine events the first time in 1932.





KevinF said:


> I realize I am replying to this a week late, but it should be noted that while Lake Placid has hosted the winter Olympics twice, the first time (in 1932) did not include alpine skiing events, only nordic.
> 
> So unless you're counting the men's and women's downhills of 1980 as "twice", an Olympic downhill has only been held there once.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_Winter_Olympics



Kevin, this was pointed out about 100 posts ago, but I forgive you because you do a mean backstroke:grin:


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## murff81 (Nov 20, 2014)

If judgeing by vertical I like this site....
 http://mountainvertical.com 

Not sure if this has been posted here already....oh and it includes all US and Canada


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## VTKilarney (Nov 20, 2014)

murff81 said:


> If judgeing by vertical I like this site....
> http://mountainvertical.com
> 
> Not sure if this has been posted here already....oh and it includes all US and Canada


That site has proven to be very controversial around here.  The debate seems to center around their formula, which has some subjective criteria built into it - but most people seem to like the underlying premise.


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## murff81 (Nov 20, 2014)

Well, crap....not trying to start anything, such a newbie....sigh


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## VTKilarney (Nov 20, 2014)

murff81 said:


> Well, crap....not trying to start anything, such a newbie....sigh


You didn't start anything - and it's a great site to point out!


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## St. Bear (Nov 20, 2014)

murff81 said:


> Well, crap....not trying to start anything, such a newbie....sigh



Just wait until we make you do the Elephant Walk.


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## canobie#1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Killington without a doubt.


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## murff81 (Nov 20, 2014)

St. Bear said:


> Just wait until we make you do the Elephant Walk.


Lol....I quit this forum hahaha


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## jerryg (Nov 20, 2014)

SUBJECTIVE MATERIAL. PERIOD. Even the eye test is subjective. There would surely be people that would come around Oh My Gosh Corner and say "Holy Shit, (Or oh my gosh) that's one big effin' mountain, but dinky compared to Killington." It could happen, depending on the amount of drugs consumed... Still subjective.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 20, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> *That site has proven to be very controversial around here*.  The debate seems to center around their formula, which has some subjective criteria built into it - but most people seem to like the underlying premise.



It is?  

 I think most people wholly accept the _"underlying premise" _as you say, and it's a relatively very few people here who think it's _"controversial"_,  only saying so because it calls out the BS that their pet mountain (usually killington) tries to get away with from a marketing perspective.


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## jerryg (Nov 20, 2014)

My guess is that the only people that find it controversial are Kton skiers. It uses a formula that is based on factual data. The site shows smaller vert for all the resorts that I frequent, but geography is not subjective. Kind of like your Highway Star's pee pee, Killington just isn't as big as you think it is. 



VTKilarney said:


> That site has proven to be very controversial around here.  The debate seems to center around their formula, which has some subjective criteria built into it - but most people seem to like the underlying premise.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 20, 2014)

jerryg said:


> It uses a formula that is based on factual data. The site shows smaller vert for all the resorts that I frequent, but *geography is not subjective.*



It's pretty difficult to argue with GPS data - yet they try.


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## ThinkSnow (Nov 24, 2014)

jimk said:


> Kevin, this was pointed out about 100 posts ago, but I forgive you because you do a mean backstroke:grin:



Hey, is this at Timberwind Condos?


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## Domeskier (Nov 24, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's pretty difficult to argue with GPS data - yet they try.



As long as the mountains aren't moving at tunaspeed...


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 24, 2014)

jerryg said:


> My guess is that the only people that find it controversial are Kton skiers. It uses a formula that is based on factual data. The site shows smaller vert for all the resorts that I frequent, but geography is not subjective. Kind of like your Highway Star's pee pee, Killington just isn't as big as you think it is.





BenedictGomez said:


> It's pretty difficult to argue with GPS data - yet they try.



You are correct geography is not subjective. However, deciding what is "continuous vertical" is.


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## Tin (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm surprised Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle didn't write about and discuss this issue.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Nov 25, 2014)

Anywhere to get a ranking of the largest vertical elevations skiable off a single lift ride? 
That is the relevant vertical to me as it is very rare that I ride two lifts to ski a run.
It's that stat and skiable acreage that make the most difference, I think.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 25, 2014)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Anywhere to get a ranking of the largest vertical elevations skiable off a single lift ride?
> That is the relevant vertical to me as it is very rare that I ride two lifts to ski a run.
> It's that stat and skiable acreage that make the most difference, I think.


I think Mt. Ellen boosts the most vertical drop in VT. There is no way to ski MT. Ellen top to bottom without using two lifts.


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## Edd (Nov 25, 2014)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Anywhere to get a ranking of the largest vertical elevations skiable off a single lift ride?
> That is the relevant vertical to me as it is very rare that I ride two lifts to ski a run.
> It's that stat and skiable acreage that make the most difference, I think.



Pulled straight from my butt but Wildcat has got to be close to #1 for this.


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2014)

Edd said:


> Pulled straight from my butt but Wildcat has got to be close to #1 for this.



Cannon tram?


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## xwhaler (Nov 25, 2014)

M1 at Smuggs has gotta be up there


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## MadMadWorld (Nov 25, 2014)

xwhaler said:


> M1 at Smuggs has gotta be up there



Boom goes Madonna!


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## Savemeasammy (Nov 25, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Cannon tram?



Big vert.  Zero runout.  Too bad it's a tram...!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ss20 (Nov 25, 2014)

Stowe's Forrunner and Gondola.
Killington's Starship gondi (technically)


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## deadheadskier (Nov 25, 2014)

I -maybe wrong as I've never skied there, but I thought the Whiteface Gondola covered the most vert in the East.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 vert.  I believe the Skyeship at K is the same, but people rule it because it's not exactly a lift you ski TtB off of........more a transport lift than a terrain servicing lift.


Smuggs Madonna is 2150
Stowe Gondola is 2100
Four Runner at Stowe is 2050
Wildcat Quad is 2050
Cannon Tram is 2025
I'm guessing the Jay Tram and Stratton Gondolas are in the neighborhood of 1900


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 25, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> *I -maybe wrong as I've never skied there, but I thought the Whiteface Gondola covered the most vert in the East.*  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 vert.  I believe the Skyeship at K is the same, but people rule it because it's not exactly a lift you ski TtB off of........more a transport lift than a terrain servicing lift.



From Little Whiteface.


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## Edd (Nov 25, 2014)

Savemeasammy said:


> Big vert.  Zero runout.  Too bad it's a tram...!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah, that is a bummer.


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## Mapnut (Nov 26, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> From Little Whiteface.




The 2,153 ft. for Jay Peak is a big lie.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 26, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Cannon tram?



Big by today's standards. Imagine what it must have been like in the 1940's and 1950's when the competition was Mom and Pop hills. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Tin (Nov 26, 2014)

Skyeship at K = 2,522
Clousplitter at Whiteface = 2,456
Madonna at Smuggs = 2,150
Stowe Gondi = 2,100
Tram at Jay = 2,050
Forerunner at Stowe = 2,047
Wildcat Express = 2,041 
Cannon Tram = 2,021 
MRG Single = 1,972
White Peaks at WV = 1,912 (surprising)
Atittash Summit Triple = 1,881
SuperQuad at Sugarloaf = 1,787
Loon Gondi = 1,738 
Sugarloaf gondi was 2,410


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## joshua segal (Nov 26, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I -maybe wrong as I've never skied there, but I thought the Whiteface Gondola covered the most vert in the East.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 vert.  I believe the Skyeship at K is the same, but people rule it because it's not exactly a lift you ski TtB off of........more a transport lift than a terrain servicing lift.
> 
> 
> Smuggs Madonna is 2150
> ...



I suspect the vertical numbers below are a tad inflated, but they come from an old thread on steepest lifts.

- Cannon tram: length 5456, vertical 2050, ratio = 2.66
- Mad River single: length 5875, vertical 2037, ratio = 2.88
- Stowe quad: length 6270, vertical 2100, ratio = 2.99


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## Tin (Nov 26, 2014)

Strattons gondi is only 1,742 ?


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## ss20 (Nov 26, 2014)

Tin said:


> Strattons gondi is only 1,742 ?



Yep.  Stratton gains the extra 350 feet of vertical from the Sunbowl to make 2,100 vertical feet.  To the main base is only 1,742.


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## Mapnut (Nov 26, 2014)

And while I'm at it, the Sunbowl side of Stratton is only 1900 vf.

I think Tin left the Stowe gondola off his list.


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## Tin (Nov 26, 2014)

Completely forgot about it 2,100'


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Dec 3, 2014)

Thanks for the info Tin et al. I guess there is no site that actually lists lift vertical?
So it sounds like:
Skyeship at Killington is the lift that lets you ski the most vertical (2522), but nobody skis it because it mostly serves green and blue terrain
Cloudsplitter at Whiteface realistically gets you the most vertical worth skiing on a run (2456)
Madonna at Smuggler's Notch is the greatest vertical (2150) from a chairlift


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 3, 2014)

Mapnut said:


> The* 2,153 ft. for Jay Peak is a big lie.*



That is odd, I never noticed that, but Whiteface is actually over-doing Jay Peak given Jay's vertical is 1,936. 

 I wonder where Whiteface got that 2,153 from?



Mapnut said:


> *the Sunbowl side of Stratton is only 1900 vf.*



Meh, that's still higher than Killington's true vertical of 1,645.

http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-east-coast-snowboarding.php


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## Highway Star (Dec 3, 2014)

ski2livelive2ski said:


> thanks for the info tin et al. I guess there is no site that actually lists lift vertical?
> So it sounds like:
> Skyeship at killington is the lift that lets you ski the most vertical (2522), but *nobody skis it because it mostly serves green and blue terrain*
> cloudsplitter at whiteface realistically gets you the most vertical worth skiing on a run (2456)
> madonna at smuggler's notch is the greatest vertical (2150) from a chairlift



*Thousands of people ski it every weekend, moron.*


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## Highway Star (Dec 3, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Meh, that's still higher than Killington's true vertical of 1,645.
> 
> http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-east-coast-snowboarding.php



Yeah, Mountain Vertical are complete morons, and so is anyone who quotes them.  They can't even apply their own stupid metric properly.

http://mountainvertical.com/true-up-vertical.html#about-true-up-vertical

I highly doubt they even ski....probably sit in their parents basement........doing whatever.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2014)

sounds like a good roommate for you then highwaystar


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## VTKilarney (Dec 3, 2014)

The Madonna lift may serve a lot of vertical, but it's going to take a LOOONG time to get there.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

To me it just seems like the longest runs off a single lift with good pitch most of the way are at Stowe. Doesn't matter whether we're talking Forerunner, Gondi or Big Spruce. Damn the stats.


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## chuckstah (Dec 3, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> *Thousands of people ski it every weekend, moron.*



I doubt more than a handful of people, if anyone, has skied it this entire season.  Stowe, Sugarbush, Okemo, Wildcat, Loon, Sugarloaf, Waterville and probably others are all offering over 2000 vert lift served now.  Ski around once in a while!


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 3, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> The Madonna lift may serve a lot of vertical, but it's going to take a LOOONG time to get there.



Oh get over it people!


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2014)

I would agree and it's a big part of the reason why Stowe is my favorite area in VT and Wildcat and Sugarloaf are my favorite areas in NH & ME respectively.   Long, good pitched runs.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> The Madonna lift may serve a lot of vertical, but it's going to take a LOOONG time to get there.





MadMadWorld said:


> Oh get over it people!



Agree, nothing wrong with slow lifts. The new generation wants everything & they want it now.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I would agree and it's a big part of the reason why Stowe is my favorite area in VT and Wildcat and Sugarloaf are my favorite areas in NH & ME respectively.   Long, good pitched runs.


Love Stowe, love Sugarloaf, Wildcat meh.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2014)

More room for me


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> More room for me


Have at it. I'm not saying it's bad but I wouldn't put it the same category as the other two.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 3, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> Agree, nothing wrong with slow lifts. The new generation wants everything & they want it now.


Remind me on a cold day.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2014)

Its smaller, but the runs they do have are just as long and well pitched as Stowe and Sugarloaf and all accessed off a great HSQ.   Less runout at Wildcat also


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 3, 2014)

Love Wildcat....I don't get the haters or dislikers


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## Smellytele (Dec 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Love Wildcat....I don't get the haters or dislikers



+1


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## DoublePlanker (Dec 3, 2014)

Love wildcat.  But for real vertical, go to Chamonix.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 3, 2014)

DoublePlanker said:


> Love wildcat.  But for real vertical, go to Chamonix.



Hard to argue that.


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## Puck it (Dec 3, 2014)

Sugarloaf run out sucks, so does the lift config.  Terrain on the steep part is awesome. 

If Cannon keeps naming the locally cut runs then we will be there soon!


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 3, 2014)

Puck it said:


> Sugarloaf run out sucks, so does the lift config.  Terrain on the steep part is awesome.
> 
> If Cannon keeps naming the locally cut runs then we will be there soon!



The things that were added to the map, is the terrain challenging? I wondered if they "thinned it" out. Once the mountain starts cutting and thinning shit goes down hill.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

VTKilarney said:


> Remind me on a cold day.


Been there done that, no problem.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 3, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> *
> Mountain Vertical are complete morons, and so is anyone who quotes them. *



You seem to become upset whenever people point out that Killington's vertical is grossly overstated, and rather average or even meager compared with other northeastern mountains.



chuckstah said:


> *I doubt more than a handful of people, if anyone, has skied it this entire season.*  Stowe, Sugarbush, Okemo, Wildcat, Loon, Sugarloaf, Waterville and probably others are all offering over 2000 vert lift served now.  *Ski around once in a while!*



To be fair, some beginners do ski it.  

And as we all know, the skiers most likely to benefit from and seek out high vertical are primarily recent bunny slope graduates.   Thus it's not disingenuous at all to vastly skew your stated vertical due to terrain that only rank beginners will enjoy. [/end sarcasm mode]


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

chuckstah said:


> I doubt more than a handful of people, if anyone, has skied it this entire season.


I ski it all the time when open. It's very convienent parking at Skyeship.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 3, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I ski it all the time when open. *It's very convienent parking *at Skyeship.



HAH!  They should add that to their marketing brochures when they mention the vertical!


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## Puck it (Dec 3, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> The things that were added to the map, is the terrain challenging? I wondered if they "thinned it" out. Once the mountain starts cutting and thinning shit goes down hill.


Just thinning by locals.  Just like the uper glades.  They are pretty challenging.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2014)

1700 vert...........UNLESS..........you want good parking.  Then we give you 3100


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

steamboat1 said:


> I ski it all the time when open. It's very convienent parking at Skyeship.





deadheadskier said:


> 1700 vert...........UNLESS..........you want good parking.  Then we give you 3100


Love being able to pull up right next to the stairs at 10am on a weekday. A few steps up & you're in an empty base lodge. Hop in a empty gondi & catch a buzz to start the day. Works for me.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 3, 2014)

I've used it before, but it's rare I'm skiing K when either the Gondi or Bear is open.  Usually only ski there early / late season.  Gondi lot is convenient coming from NH, but I'd rather drive the extra five minutes and park up at Bear.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 3, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I've used it before, but it's rare I'm skiing K when either the Gondi or Bear is open.  Usually only ski there early / late season.  Gondi lot is convenient coming from NH, but I'd rather drive the extra five minutes and park up at Bear.


Lol, I'm not coming from the east. It's equadistant to Skyeship or K-1 for me. Bears a bit further. I park everywhere depending on my mood. If I'm there early then Bear or K-1 is best to catch the early morning cord.

It's nice to have options.


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