# Do you wear a helmet?



## IrekJanek (Feb 15, 2015)

Every time I hear something like this: Ski industry stresses helmet use in wake of Sugarloaf death I can't help but wonder if it could have been avoided.

Original accident report: Husson University football player dies in skiing accident at Sugarloaf


----------



## Edd (Feb 15, 2015)

Most skiers and riders do at this point. This is a well worn discussion on ski forums. You can usually expect someone to say that a helmet increases a skier's confidence so that he/she takes unnecessary risks but I've never bought that. 

My opinion:  the helmet pros outweigh the cons. I don't get the resistance personally but to each their own.


----------



## gmcunni (Feb 15, 2015)

it boggles my mind when i see Ski Patrol and ski instructors on the mountain without helmets.


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 15, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> it boggles my mind when i see Ski Patrol and ski instructors on the mountain without helmets.



It is kind of ridiculous at this point to not wear one, at a minimum it will keep you from getting those unintended lumps and cuts from wild branches or out of control poles. They are relatively warm too!


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 15, 2015)

No


----------



## benski (Feb 15, 2015)

And helmets make you look cooler 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## IrekJanek (Feb 15, 2015)

benski said:


> And helmets make you look cooler
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Yes they do:beer:


----------



## abc (Feb 15, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> it boggles my mind when i see Ski Patrol and ski instructors on the mountain without helmets.


What may seem "boggles your mind" can be very simple.

I usually wear a helmet when I'm free skiing. But I typically don't wear a helmet when I'm instructing beginners and low level skiers. Why? It's too hot when doing drills repeatedly. Simple as that. 

Besides, what's my chance of fall and hitting my head on the bunny slope? About the same as my walking across the road to get lunch! Since I don't wear a helmet getting lunch, I don't see the need to wear one while teaching.


----------



## gmcunni (Feb 15, 2015)

abc said:


> What may seem "boggles your mind" can be very simple.
> 
> I usually wear a helmet when I'm free skiing. But I typically don't wear a helmet when I'm instructing beginners and low level skiers. Why? It's too hot when doing drills repeatedly. Simple as that.
> 
> Besides, what's my chance of fall and hitting my head on the bunny slope? About the same as my walking across the road to get lunch! Since I don't wear a helmet getting lunch, I don't see the need to wear one while teaching.



when i've seen it it has been on intermediate trails (at least the times i can recall). Regardless, i'm probably being too politically correct in my thinking that as instructors you'd be an employee of the mountain and as instructors of beginners/intermediates you'd be setting an example of safety..   probably not good of me to assume my values and expectations are something you (the general "you", not you specifically) should be held to.


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 15, 2015)

I wear a helmet all the time now ...But have to wonder I recently bought a Sony POV camera and have a stick on mount on the top .
Wondering if I just created a potential hazard , I can peel it off with a good amnount of force but in a fall will it grab a branch or something else and give me a neck injury?


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 15, 2015)

IrekJanek said:


> I can't help but wonder if it could have been avoided.



Cant say until the results are released.  Usually the answer is, "no", but in this case if "blunt force trauma to the head” really is the correct answer as the article you linked suggests, that this case may be the exception.



abc said:


> I typically don't wear a helmet when I'm instructing beginners and low level skiers. Why? It's too hot when doing drills repeatedly. Simple as that.



Does your helmet have vents?  The technology has come a long way if your helmet is a few years old, I dont ever feel hot in mine.


----------



## WWF-VT (Feb 16, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I wear a helmet all the time now ...But have to wonder I recently bought a Sony POV camera and have a stick on mount on the top .
> Wondering if I just created a potential hazard , I can peel it off with a good amnount of force but in a fall will it grab a branch or something else and give me a neck injury?



POV camera might not be a hazard but it does make you look like a dork


----------



## Rowsdower (Feb 16, 2015)

Never go without it now. 

I even wear it to work sometimes, or around the house.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 16, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I wear a helmet all the time now ...But have to wonder I recently bought a Sony POV camera and have a stick on mount on the top .
> Wondering if I just created a potential hazard , I can peel it off with a good amnount of force but in a fall will it grab a branch or something else and give me a neck injury?




It'll pop off before it causes enough force to hurt your neck.  You may want to attach a lanyard to it for secondary retention.  I had my GoPro on my head and caught a heel edge.  I hit the back of my head hard enough to rip the mount off.  If my girl didn't happen to see the camera go tumbling I'd be out $300.  

Personally, I always wear a helmet.  I definitely go by the "to each his own" mentality, but personally I can't see a good argument for not wearing one.  When a simple bump to the head could change your life forever (or end it), I can't understand why someone would risk it.  Even though it won't protect from everything, there are still a ton of incidents where a helmet can make all the difference.


----------



## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> it boggles my mind when i see Ski Patrol and ski instructors on the mountain without helmets.



Saw that at Cannon yesterday but he was with a group lesson and they were getting ready to go to the Tuckerbook area so beginner lesson.



prsboogie said:


> It is kind of ridiculous at this point to not wear one, at a minimum it will keep you from getting those unintended lumps and cuts from wild branches or out of control poles. They are relatively warm too!



I agree.  I have worn a helmet now for about ten years and yes it does keep head warmer.  There was a woman skiing at Cannon with a knit cap at the summit (-20 to -30 with windchill) and was complaining about how cold her head was.  Almost said something.



benski said:


> And helmets make you look cooler
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Hell ya - HALO Master Sargent look!



IrekJanek said:


> Every time I hear something like this: Ski industry stresses helmet use in wake of Sugarloaf death I can't help but wonder if it could have been avoided.
> 
> Original accident report: Husson University football player dies in skiing accident at Sugarloaf



Even with Helmets - a woman died hitting a tree at Q Burke and had a helmet.  The helmet may give some a false sense of security.



WWF-VT said:


> POV camera might not be a hazard but it does make you look like a dork



Weren't they blamming that Indy racers death on a GoPro Mount (or at least tried to)?


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 16, 2015)

dlague said:


> Even with Helmets - a woman died hitting a tree at Q Burke and had a helmet. The helmet may give some a false sense of security.



I have a hard time believing that, but then again, some people are extraordinarily stupid.  I definitely feel more vulnerable when I don't have one one (which is extremely rare), but I don't think I feel over confident with it either.  I don't think people do things they wouldn't normally do just because they have a helmet on.  I think it's simply ignorance.  People see good conditions like soft snow or powder and feel like they can't get hurt.  So they head into the trees looking for stashes and forget that it's the trees that are the danger.  The go too fast or maybe don't have a lot of experience in glades or powder.  Crashes happen when they think their skis or board will respond a certain way, like it does on a groomer, and it does something different.

One of my first times riding deep powder I knocked myself out in the woods at Killington.  I went to turn around a tree, thinking my board would skid like it does on groomed stuff.  It turned much sharper than I was expecting and I slammed the side of my head right into a pine.  I had a helmet on but I hit just below it on my eye socket.  I woke up a few seconds later on my back, buried in fluff.  I had a cut on the side of my face where my goggles dug in and a nice shiner.


----------



## Edd (Feb 16, 2015)

Edd said:


> You can usually expect someone to say that a helmet increases a skier's confidence so that he/she takes unnecessary risks but I've never bought that.



...


----------



## dlague (Feb 16, 2015)

C-Rex said:


> I have a hard time believing that, but then again, some people are extraordinarily stupid.  I definitely feel more vulnerable when I don't have one one (which is extremely rare), but I don't think I feel over confident with it either.  I don't think people do things they wouldn't normally do just because they have a helmet on.  I think it's simply ignorance.  People see good conditions like soft snow or powder and feel like they can't get hurt.  So they head into the trees looking for stashes and forget that it's the trees that are the danger.  The go too fast or maybe don't have a lot of experience in glades or powder.  Crashes happen when they think their skis or board will respond a certain way, like it does on a groomer, and it does something different.
> 
> One of my first times riding deep powder I knocked myself out in the woods at Killington.  I went to turn around a tree, thinking my board would skid like it does on groomed stuff.  It turned much sharper than I was expecting and I slammed the side of my head right into a pine.  I had a helmet on but I hit just below it on my eye socket.  I woke up a few seconds later on my back, buried in fluff.  I had a cut on the side of my face where my goggles dug in and a nice shiner.



That is why you never go in the woods by yourself!

here is the story of the Q Burke death.

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Skier-Who-Died-in-Accident-Identified-291247021.html\


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 16, 2015)

C-Rex said:


> I have a hard time believing that, but then again, some people are extraordinarily stupid.  I definitely feel more vulnerable when I don't have one one (which is extremely rare), but I don't think I feel over confident with it either.


If you feel more vulnerable don't you ski more cautiously?

There is a study that just came out that does seem to indicate that helmets make a difference.  I've always scratched my head at the prior studies that were skeptical of helmet efficacy.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 16, 2015)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> *I recently bought a Sony POV camera and have a stick on mount on the top .
> Wondering if I just created a potential hazard *



I suppose laboratory safety testing would be required to confirm, but IMO it seems the logical answer would be "yes", if the area of impact was centered perfectly on the camera.  Instead of the total force of the tree, rock, etc.. impact being dispersed a bit over a larger rounded surface it could be directed with focus into one very small area which could create instability.   Does anyone know if any helmet companies incorporate "anti camera" language into their disclaimers?   I'd do that if I ran Giro or Bern, etc..


----------



## abc (Feb 16, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> when i've seen it it has been on intermediate trails (at least the times i can recall).


But when I go out to the line up, I don't know what level of student I'll be getting. I may get an intermediate, or I may get a never ever.


----------



## abc (Feb 16, 2015)

BenedictGomez said:


> Does your helmet have vents?  The technology has come a long way if your helmet is a few years old, I dont ever feel hot in mine.


Try skating uphill a few times! Whatever vent there is, is no match to a bare head. No hats required, even temperature in the teens! 

The beauty of hats is exactly because I can have it on when I'm skiing. But if I get hot, I can take it off, fold it up and stuff it in my pockets.


----------



## catskillman (Feb 16, 2015)

Besides, what's my chance of fall and hitting my head on the bunny slope? About the same as my walking across the road to get lunch! Since I don't wear a helmet getting lunch, I don't see the need to wear one while teaching.[/QUOTE]

Very high actually.  I know several instructors that were taken out by high speed power wedgers on the bunny slope.  There was one many many years ago, a great gorge I believe, that I read got his head run over by an out of control skier who was in second place in a downhill race with a classmate.   Also, at Hunter 2 instructors collided head on.  The one wearing the helmet was fine.  The other died.  Most mountains now strongly recommend/require the use of a helmet.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 16, 2015)

I can definitely see the merit in instructors wearing helmets as an example to their students.  The message itself is pretty important.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 16, 2015)

No matter how slim the odds are that you get hurt, I'd have some serious regrets if I got seriously injured and it could have been prevented by wearing something that's light, warm, comfortable, and, depending on who you ask, fashionable as well.  Sure, they can be expensive, but how do you put a price on your functioning brain.  $100 to greatly reduce the risk of spending the rest of my life like a piece of broccoli?  I'll pay that.  There's really no GOOD reason not too.  All you can say is, "It's my decision. I know it's a risk and I accept it."  AS dumb as I think it is, I'll never begrudge someone for making a personal decision, as long as it's educated.


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 16, 2015)

https://bangordailynews.com/2015/02...ad-injury-in-skiing-accident-at-sunday-river/
Reading the Q Burke thread jogged my memory from the Summit last week ,
My Brothers GF mentioned this but I don't know any details.


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 16, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Besides, what's my chance of fall and hitting my head on the bunny slope? About the same as my walking across the road to get lunch! Since I don't wear a helmet getting lunch, I don't see the need to wear one while teaching.



Very high actually.  I know several instructors that were taken out by high speed power wedgers on the bunny slope.  There was one many many years ago, a great gorge I believe, that I read got his head run over by an out of control skier who was in second place in a downhill race with a classmate.   Also, at Hunter 2 instructors collided head on.  The one wearing the helmet was fine.  The other died.  Most mountains now strongly recommend/require the use of a helmet.[/QUOTE]

I took my 8 yr old out for his first time ever this year , after some confidence he froze after going too fast and went straight into a family .
His ski flipped and hit a small kid and gashed his eyebrow , about 1 1/2" ,creased his helmet .
Without the helmet it would have been his whole forehead .
To me life is all about odds , helmet overall improves your chances.


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 16, 2015)

I wear a helmet. I grew up skiing in the 80's and the only people who wore helmets were racers when they were racing. I remember my mom actually telling me "you'll have to join the race team if you want a helmet".

When I got back into skiing in my 30's my mom made sure to tell me "make sure you wear a helmet!", funny how things change. First time back I wore a helmet and have just considered it part of my gear ever since.


----------



## abc (Feb 16, 2015)

> wearing something that's light, *warm*, comfortable


"warm" is THE problem!!!

It's far too hot when you're skating uphill while your students ride up on the magic carpet every time!


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 16, 2015)

To answer the original question, yes I do.  I have now for 17 years.


----------



## abc (Feb 16, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Very high actually.  I know several instructors that were taken out by high speed power wedgers on the bunny slope.  There was one many many years ago, a great gorge I believe, that I read got his head run over by an out of control skier who was in second place in a downhill race with a classmate.   Also, at Hunter 2 instructors collided head on.  The one wearing the helmet was fine.  The other died.  Most mountains now strongly recommend/require the use of a helmet.


Do you know how many pedestrians got knocked down by bike messenger or turning cars? Actually a lot more than un-helmeted ski instructors!!!

But do YOU wear a helmet crossing the street? Why not???


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 16, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> it boggles my mind when i see Ski Patrol and ski instructors on the mountain without helmets.



I think that some places require their employees to wear them when skiing and riding.  I might be wrong though.


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 16, 2015)

I think that one of the biggest misconceptions is the relative amount of protection that a helmet provides.  If you are going Tuna Speed and hit something, helmet or no helmet you are going to be hurt pretty badly.  Helmets are most effective for beginners and lower intermediates skiing on groomed snow and relatively low speeds.  In fact that is their target market.  They can't produce a helmet for hard charging experts because it would simply be too heavy.  It is a dirty secret with helmets...they don't provide much protection but they certainly provide more than a wool hat.


----------



## abc (Feb 16, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> It is a dirty secret with helmets...they don't provide much protection but they certainly provide more than a wool hat.


But there's another way of looking at that. Even when experts hit the deck at high speed, the biggest components of the momentum actually goes sliding. The impact on the snow isn't all that big, unless they hit some object. 

In that regard, helmets provide just the same protection for experts as beginners. 

What the helmet doesn't protect, is when skiing high speed in the trees, or hitting a tree on the side of the trail at high speed. The thing is, a lot of intermediates straight-lining a blue slope can attain such a high speed to render the helmet useless. And plenty of intermediates nowadays goes exploring in the glades too. 

I don't think the "dirty little secret" is true any more.


----------



## thetrailboss (Feb 16, 2015)

abc said:


> But there's another way of looking at that. Even when experts hit the deck at high speed, the biggest components of the momentum actually goes sliding. The impact on the snow isn't all that big, unless they hit some object.
> 
> In that regard, helmets provide just the same protection for experts as beginners.
> 
> ...



Agree with you on the trees aspect.  But as to the other point it all depends upon if your head comes in contact with the ice/snow/grass/dirt first or if, as you said, one slides.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Feb 16, 2015)

thetrailboss said:


> Helmets are most effective for beginners and lower intermediates skiing on groomed snow and relatively low speeds.  In fact that is their target market.  They can't produce a helmet for hard charging experts because it would simply be too heavy.  It is a dirty secret with helmets...they don't provide much protection but they certainly provide more than a wool hat.



I just finished watching the world championships. I was amazed at all the hard chargers racing in wool hats.


----------



## billski (Feb 17, 2015)

IrekJanek said:


> Every time I hear something like this: Ski industry stresses helmet use in wake of Sugarloaf death I can't help but wonder if it could have been avoided.
> 
> Original accident report: Husson University football player dies in skiing accident at Sugarloaf



Do you wear a helmet.  I have a three helmet quiver


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't think anyone believes that a helmet renders their head invincible.  A seatbelt or airbag won't save you in ANY crash either, but no one argues their effectiveness.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2015)

How long do folks hang onto their helmets before replacing?  I think I've got 8 years on mine.  Dented all over but still works great.


----------



## Edd (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll replace them when I've decided they look dorky. I'm all about style.


----------



## catskillman (Feb 17, 2015)

abc said:


> "warm" is THE problem!!!
> 
> It's far too hot when you're skating uphill while your students ride up on the magic carpet every time!



Then take it off while you skate, and put it back on.  Do you have LTC insurance?  I would recommend it.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Feb 17, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> How long do folks hang onto their helmets before replacing?  I think I've got 8 years on mine.  Dented all over but still works great.



5yrs, or a hard impact. Every one of those dents, is a spot where you have had a decent impact. The foam is compressed behind the shell, and will not fully protect your head like it was designed.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 17, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> 5yrs, or a hard impact. Every one of those dents, is a spot where you have had a decent impact. The foam is compressed behind the shell, and will not fully protect your head like it was designed.




Yep, that's the general rule.  Some companies, like Giro, have a crash replacement deal where you can get a new one at a discounted rate after a slam.


----------



## St. Bear (Feb 17, 2015)

Wifey and I finally got helmets this year.  We were never anti-helmet, just became a cost issue.  A helmet = a days lift ticket.

What finally prompted us to get them this year is that our son started skiing.  Had to set an example.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2015)

Hawkshot99 said:


> 5yrs, or a hard impact. Every one of those dents, is a spot where you have had a decent impact. The foam is compressed behind the shell, and will not fully protect your head like it was designed.



I'll take your word for it, however I doubt those little dents have compromised the helmet that much.  Those are all dings from hitting branches, not dents from actually crashes.  I added the one above the M in the photo below just this past Sunday.  I'm sure the helmet doesn't function like new, but those small branch dents hardly seem like cause for replacement.


----------



## gmcunni (Feb 17, 2015)

i replace mine when there is no more room for new stickers.


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Feb 17, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll take your word for it, however I doubt those little dents have compromised the helmet that much.  Those are all dings from hitting branches, not dents from actually crashes.  I added the one above the M in the photo below just this past Sunday.  I'm sure the helmet doesn't function like new, but those small branch dents hardly seem like cause for replacement.



Most likely you are fine with it.....I prefer to buy a helmet with a hard outer shell, rather than the the paper thin shell like you have there. Yes the thicker shell does weigh more, but glancing blows like you describe do not cause dents, just scratches.


----------



## abc (Feb 17, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Then take it off while you skate, and put it back on.  Do you have LTC insurance?  I would recommend it.


Huh?


"Take it off" and put  where???


----------



## ironhippy (Feb 17, 2015)

abc said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> "Take it off" and put  where???



I am surprised your ski hill allows you to instruct without a helmet


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> How long do folks hang onto their helmets before replacing?  I think I've got 8 years on mine.  *Dented all over but still works great*.



That should have been replaced long ago.  Little scrapes are no big deal, but dents decrease the helmets effectiveness, and that helmet seems to have an impressive collection on tiny dents.


----------



## Edd (Feb 17, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I'll take your word for it, however I doubt those little dents have compromised the helmet that much.  Those are all dings from hitting branches, not dents from actually crashes.  I added the one above the M in the photo below just this past Sunday.  I'm sure the helmet doesn't function like new, but those small branch dents hardly seem like cause for replacement.



Probably just molded to the natural shape of your head.


----------



## catskillman (Feb 17, 2015)

abc said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> "Take it off" and put  where???


For real????   Close the strap and hold it in your hand with your pole.  Your skating uphill remember, not going much faster than if you were walking.  Sounds like you are just trying to come up with more reasons to justify the craziness of your decision not to wear it.  It is just a matter of time before your mountain, whatever it is, requires you to wear the helmet whenever you are in uniform I'll bet.


----------



## Nick (Feb 17, 2015)

I've been using mine for 3 years now and may be 1 or 2 very minor dents but still in pretty good shape. I would bet "days out" is more important than actual age, no? Or UV damage... 

Either way, we are all better off than being helmet-less


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 17, 2015)

Nick said:


> I've been using mine for 3 years now and may be 1 or 2 very minor dents but still in pretty good shape. I would bet "days out" is more important than actual age, no? Or UV damage...
> 
> Either way, we are all better off than being helmet-less


The dent when you hit the tree in that video you posted?


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 17, 2015)

St. Bear said:


> Wifey and I finally got helmets this year.  We were never anti-helmet, just became a cost issue.  A helmet = a days lift ticket.
> 
> What finally prompted us to get them this year is that our son started skiing.  Had to set an example.



+1 do as I do not as I say!!! Goes a long way


----------



## witch hobble (Feb 17, 2015)

When I was young and fast I would always wear one, sometimes two, in order to feel protected and last longer.  Then, when I started venturing into unexplored (or at least "new to me") territory, they would give me peace of mind that nothing was gonna happen to me with any long term consequences.  Now that I've settled into the comfortable routine of mid-life, I find them a bit redundant and prefer the freedom and sensation of going without.

wait, are we talking about helmets?


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 17, 2015)

abc said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> "Take it off" and put  where???



Your elbow, right where I would keep my brain bucket while riding my motorcycle in RI  before I sold it.


----------



## Nick (Feb 17, 2015)

Smellytele said:


> The dent when you hit the tree in that video you posted?



Luckily I didn't hit my head then !


----------



## prsboogie (Feb 17, 2015)

witch hobble said:


> When I was young and fast I would always wear one, sometimes two, in order to feel protected and last longer.  Then, when I started venturing into unexplored (or at least "new to me") territory, they would give me peace of mind that nothing was gonna happen to me with any long term consequences.  Now that I've settled into the comfortable routine of mid-life, I find them a bit redundant and prefer the freedom and sensation of going without.
> 
> wait, are we talking about helmets?



Wait, what?


----------



## abc (Feb 17, 2015)

catskillman said:


> Sounds like you are just trying to come up with more reasons to justify the craziness of your decision not to wear it.


Or you refuse to give in to REASON to justify the craziness of your BELIEVE that everyone must wear it under all circumstance.



> Your skating uphill remember, not going much faster than if you were walking.


But I'm not skiing any faster than walking when I'm teaching beginners! So explain to me why I need to wear a helmet again? 

More over, it will set a great example when the student see their instructor is taking the helmet off half of the lesson! 



catskillman said:


> Do you have LTC insurance? I would recommend it.


Do you? I would recommend it, to anyone who cross the street without wearing a helmet.



> It is just a matter of time before your mountain, whatever it is, requires you to wear the helmet whenever you are in uniform I'll bet.


Well, how much do you want to put down? And how much "time" you want the bet to be? 

The head of the school said he will quit teaching if they require helmet during teaching. I will stop teaching beginners if they require helmet. Simple as that. 



prsboogie said:


> your elbow, right where i would keep my brain bucket while riding my motorcycle in ri  before i sold it.


lol!!!


----------



## Quietman (Feb 17, 2015)

Due to the deep snow pack in S NH, I took a couple of head shots from low hanging branches in the glades in the last couple of days.  Glad that I could duck a little and take it off the helmet. Its warm and comfortable, don't even think about not using it.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> The head of the school said he will quit teaching if they require helmet during teaching. I will stop teaching beginners if they require helmet. Simple as that!!!


You are making this all about you when it should be about your students.  If you are teaching my child I expect you to teach safety by example.   Safety is just as important a lesson as learning how to make a wedge.  Kids are going to want to emulate their instructor.  I'd like to think that your not so fragile that you can keep a helmet on your head even if it makes you a little warm.  But in your world the instructor can't be inconvenienced in the slightest.  That's just unacceptable and they must maintain their honor by being a quitter.   Simple as that!!!


.


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> But I'm not skiing any faster than walking when I'm teaching beginners! So explain to me why I need to wear a helmet again?
> 
> More over, it will set a great example when the student see their instructor is taking the helmet off half of the lesson!
> 
> ...




Natasha Richardson.... Just standing there. If she was wearing one she would be alive today 

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## Cannonball (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> The head of the school said he will quit teaching if they require helmet during teaching. I will stop teaching beginners if they require helmet. Simple as that.



I wasn't really agreeing with you in this thread, but figured to each their own.  But hearing that a ski school program at a mountain is actually, expressly ANTI-helmet is just insane!  What other safety features is your program against?


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> I wasn't really agreeing with you in this thread, but figured to each their own.  But hearing that a ski school program at a mountain is actually, expressly ANTI-helmet is just insane!  What other safety features is your program against?



putting the bar down?


----------



## bigbog (Feb 18, 2015)

Use Smith's Variance.   Works well yet I'll put a mod to it(probably void the warranty;-)) but make much more comfortable instead of just the single hard(high-density) foam.


----------



## abc (Feb 18, 2015)

JDMRoma said:


> Natasha Richardson.... Just standing there. If she was wearing one she would be alive today
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


That's the  best argument 

I walk from my office to my car without helmet. I walk from the far edge of the parking lot to the mall entrance without helmet. I also don't see any single person in any of those parking lot wearing helmet. Right now, the parking lots are full of ice and snow..

If Richardson falls on a parking lot, would she had died? Quite likely!

So, any of you wear a helmet going to the mall? When you do, I will wear one teaching beginners!

II'll come back to this thread in a couple decade to see who took up that challenge!!!


----------



## abc (Feb 18, 2015)

Cannonball said:


> I wasn't really agreeing with you in this thread, but figured to each their own.  But hearing that a ski school program at a mountain is actually, expressly ANTI-helmet is just insane!  What other safety features is your program against?


Just anti-mandatory-helmet, as far as I know.

There's difference in anti-something vs anti-mandatory that same thing. 

I admit I unfortunately live in a society where a large group of people can't tell that difference! Sad, but true.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2015)

For Pete's sake abc will you please think of the children!  Maybe you can shave your head and get a helmet tattoo.


----------



## Bostonian (Feb 18, 2015)

After knocking myself out a couple of years ago and having my helmet on... I never ski without it.  Not worth the risk


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 18, 2015)

How long before people start wearing HANS devices and spine protectors too?  The downhill biking community has seen a big surge in their use.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2015)

I believe snowmonster wore a spine protector when he skied.  He also did a lot of solo BC type stuff, so I could see his desire for extra protection.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> That's the  best argument
> 
> I walk from my office to my car without helmet. I walk from the far edge of the parking lot to the mall entrance without helmet. I also don't see any single person in any of those parking lot wearing helmet. Right now, the parking lots are full of ice and snow..
> 
> ...


False analogy.  When you are walking to hang out in the mall you aren't acting as a role model and educator of children.  You chose to be a teacher.  You should start acting like one.


----------



## dlague (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> That's the  best argument
> 
> I walk from my office to my car without helmet. I walk from the far edge of the parking lot to the mall entrance without helmet. I also don't see any single person in any of those parking lot wearing helmet. Right now, the parking lots are full of ice and snow..
> 
> ...



Hey you are on to something!  We need to have the government get in on this debate and mandate people wear helmets all the time while walking around not just in action sports!


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> That's the  best argument
> 
> I walk from my office to my car without helmet. I walk from the far edge of the parking lot to the mall entrance without helmet. I also don't see any single person in any of those parking lot wearing helmet. Right now, the parking lots are full of ice and snow..
> 
> ...



Ive taken some falls on my driveway I wish I had been wearing a helmet......Bottom line its your head.....do with it what you want !

I shoveled my roof tonight.......so as to not be a hypocrite I wore my helmet just for ABC !


----------



## Hawkshot99 (Feb 18, 2015)

Eating pizza! Never too safe!


----------



## gmcunni (Feb 18, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> False analogy.  When you are walking to hang out in the mall you aren't acting as a role model and educator of children.  You chose to be a teacher.  You should start acting like one.


ha.. .with recent headlines indicating teachers are molesting children in schools  setting a bad example by not wearing a helmet doesn't seem so bad


----------



## abc (Feb 18, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> False analogy.  When you are walking to hang out in the mall you aren't acting as a role model and educator of children.  You chose to be a teacher.  You should start acting like one.


The false analogy is yours. 

I'm not an "educator". I'm paid as little as a nanny and have responsibility as such! They learned to ski too, BTW.   

Even if I were paid as much as a teacher, there're still area I'm not expected to be a "role model". If I'm teaching math, I'm NOT a role model with my bad writing. And vice verse. 

Role model? It's up to the parents to teach them who to model after on which behavior, rather than automatically model after EVERY BEHAVIOR of whomever they drop their kids off at. 

There lies the mistake too many parents make! They blame sports figure or other celebrity for their bad behavior that would negatively influence their children! For god's sake, those are entertainers! (to some degree, so am I, to entertain your kid for 90 min). 

So, tell your kids WHY they must wear a helmet when others don't. Or tell them they have to because you say so. A positive influence is nice add-on, but any parent who rely on such random "influence" as the primary source for shaping the kids' behavior will likely be disappointed. 

Perhaps you can tip your kid's ski instructor extra when they DO wear a helmet? Now that you know it takes extra effort to do so.


----------



## billski (Feb 18, 2015)

I draw the line at wearing a helmet in bed.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> The false analogy is yours.
> 
> I'm not an "educator". I'm paid as little as a nanny and have responsibility as such! They learned to ski too, BTW.
> 
> ...



Great attitude.  


.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2015)

abc said:


> Role model? It's up to the parents to teach them who to model after on which behavior, rather than automatically model after EVERY BEHAVIOR of whomever they drop their kids off at.
> 
> So, tell your kids WHY they must wear a helmet when others don't. Or tell them they have to because you say so. A positive influence is nice add-on, but any parent who rely on such random "influence" as the primary source for shaping the kids' behavior will likely be disappointed.



I agree with this completely.  

I'm willing to bet 99.9% of the members of this forum learned to ski without a helmet.  Most of us only started wearing them within the last decade.  Most of us have come out just fine through all those "dangers".  

Someone teaching kids on a beginner hill should never be a role model for your kids.  If you allow them to be a role model and your kids choices are more influenced by an instructor walking up a beginner hill sans helmet vs. what you've told them.......the issue lies with the parenting, not the instructor.

I still want to see you shave your head though abc and get a helmet tattoo.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I agree with this completely.
> 
> I'm willing to bet 99.9% of the members of this forum learned to ski without a helmet.  Most of us only started wearing them within the last decade.  Most of us have come out just fine through all those "dangers".
> 
> ...



Nobody suggested that the instructor take the place of a parent.  That's a false premise.  It was merely suggested that the best instructors lead by example and the lesser instructors don't.  We know where abc stands.  


.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Nobody suggested that the instructor take the place of a parent.  That's a false premise.  It was merely suggested that the best instructors lead by example and the lesser instructors don't.  We know where abc stands.
> 
> 
> .



The best ski instructors are the one's that teach kid's the best.  Wearing a helmet has nothing to do with it at that level.  He's spending more time picking beginners off the ground on likely a slope serviced by a Magic Carpet lift than he's actually skiing.  If you think that individual should be in a helmet and viewed as a role model by your children.......yeah, then it's not a false premise.  Parenting is an issue. 

I find it somewhat laughable that people are trying to guilt abc into wearing a helmet in such an environment.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2015)

> I find it somewhat laughable that people are trying to guilt abc into wearing a helmet in such an environment.


Nobody is trying to guilt him into anything.  It's his choice.  I'm just pointing out what his priorities are based on his choice.  Promoting safety by leading by example is not his priority.  That's not debatable.  But at the end of the day it's his call.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> Nobody is trying to guilt him into anything.  It's his choice.  I'm just pointing out what his priorities are based on his choice.  Promoting safety by leading by example is not his priority.  That's not debatable.  But at the end of the day it's his call.



This is a series of guilt statements BTW.  

You (and others) wouldn't point it out if you weren't attempting to influence a change in behavior.  

Nobody just makes flippant statements like that.  They're purposeful.


----------



## abc (Feb 18, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> I find it somewhat laughable that people are trying to guilt abc into wearing a helmet in such an environment.


Fortunately, my parents raised me NOT to give in to peer pressure blindly. That was the best "education" I got, at home, from a rather early age. 

Thanks to that, I was able to resist pressure as a teenager then, and as an adult now. I'm able to make my own decisions and stay my own course based on science and logic, despite the ebbs and flow of fashion, marketing and political correctness.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 19, 2015)

I really don't care who wears a helmet or not. Never have.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 19, 2015)

abc said:


> Fortunately, my parents raised me NOT to give in to peer pressure blindly. That was the best "education" I got, at home, from a rather early age.
> 
> Thanks to that, I was able to resist pressure as a teenager then, and as an adult now. I'm able to make my own decisions and stay my own course based on science and logic, despite the ebbs and flow of fashion, marketing and political correctness.



Nobody was talking about peer pressure.  Positive reinforcement is something entirely different.  Yet another false analogy of many.  Is this supposed to be a game or something?  If it is, you could at least tell me my score.


.


----------



## catskillman (Feb 19, 2015)

WOW - I am beginning to think you and your ski school director have some brain issues from a fall while not wearing a helmet.


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 19, 2015)

catskillman said:


> WOW - I am beginning to think you and your ski school director have some brain issues from a fall while not wearing a helmet.



Science and logic would have to agree 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 19, 2015)

This whole lead by example thing is nonsense. If parents want their kids to be safe make them wear a helmet. The responsibility isn't on the instructor teach the kids valuable life lessons, it's to teach them to ski. I'm so sick of people blaming others when the responsibility should be on the parents.


----------



## rocks860 (Feb 19, 2015)

Just to clarify I'm talking about beginners on the bunny hill, on the rest of the mountain I think that instructors should wear helmets


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 19, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> Just to clarify I'm talking about beginners on the bunny hill, on the rest of the mountain I think that instructors should wear helmets



Agreed


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 19, 2015)

I don't care


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 19, 2015)

rocks860 said:


> This whole lead by example thing is nonsense. If parents want their kids to be safe make them wear a helmet. The responsibility isn't on the instructor teach the kids valuable life lessons, it's to teach them to ski. I'm so sick of people blaming others when the responsibility should be on the parents.


Nobody is blaming anyone.  Nobody is saying that it is the instructor's responsibility to determine when somebody else's child will wear a helmet.  Everyone is missing the point.

All that is being said is that, while it is ultimately the parents' responsibility, an instructor can either lead by example or not.  All I am saying is that if I had to choose between two instructors, I would choose the one who leads by example.  That is it.  I'm not passing judgment on the decision itself, I'm just saying who I would prefer to have instruct my child.  Just as ABC has free choice, so do I.

ABC seems to only be able to focus on how this issue affects him personally, and seems to be incapable of recognizing that his actions may affect others, even if to a very slight degree.


----------



## abc (Feb 19, 2015)

VTKilarney said:


> seems to be incapable of recognizing that his actions may affect others, even if to a very slight degree.


Again, it's another confusion of two related but different issues. 

I'm perfectly aware of the effect of instructor's wearing helmet or not. But my choice to not "led by example" is precisely because the effect is tiny. Or more importantly, it *should be *tiny. It's a matter of unrealistic expectations of some parents.

BTW, ABC is a "she". Just so those who actually met me don't think I had a sex change. 

But being a minority, both in work place and in a "sport" forum, I'm much more aware of the "carrying the cross" issue than the rest of you. Hence, I refuse to be a role model where it's irrelevant. I will ski and teach ski the best I know how. That's what my students should learn from me or imitates me. Not the brand of skis I use, clothes I wear, or helmet I wear not.


----------



## freeski (Feb 19, 2015)

I don't own a helmet. I've thought about getting one, but I doubt if I will. I like being in a lift line when a lot of other people don't have one on. I think the lift line looks cooler when everyone has a wool hat and isn't looking cool in the lift line what it's all about. :dunce:


----------



## wtcobb (Feb 20, 2015)

For those who do wear a helmet, and those who venture in the BC, what type of helmet do you wear: ski or climbing? I have a Smith Maze for inbounds (though it took a borderline dent and may be retired). It's very light as far as ski helmets go, but poorly ventilated. Before I re-up with that model I'm considering the ski/climb options (would be cool to have a warmer climbing helmet than my Elios for ice climbing anyways).

The CAMP Speed just came on the Clymb - I was actually looking at this helmet on Backcountry anyways - but having a purely climbing helmet without properly rated side impact seems a bit... improper. Also wondering if 22 vents would be _too_ ventilated on the coldest days here in the East.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 20, 2015)

wtcobb said:


> The CAMP Speed just came on the Clymb - I was actually looking at this helmet on Backcountry anyways - but having a purely climbing helmet without properly rated side impact seems a bit... improper. Also wondering if 22 vents would be _too_ ventilated on the coldest days here in the East.



As long as you can close them it'll probably be pretty warm.  I lost the vent plugs to one of my helmets so only the center vents close now and it's still really warm.


----------



## wtcobb (Feb 20, 2015)

In short, no - you can't close the vents: http://www.backcountry.com/camp-usa-speed-ski-and-climbing-helmet

Wear a 'clava/fleece beanie underneath.


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 20, 2015)

With a hat or clava under it you'll be fine.  You'll need something for your ears anyway.  It's the vents on top that really release the heat anyway.  Sometimes if it's really cold I just duct tape the inside to cover the vents.  Ghetto, I know, but the helmet I want to replace it with is like $230 and I'd rather spend that money actually snowboarding.


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 20, 2015)

wtcobb said:


> In short, no - you can't close the vents



Probably in response to the epidemic of ski instructors dying from heat exhaustion while standing on bunny hills.


----------



## dlague (Feb 20, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> Probably in response to the epidemic of ski instructors dying from heat exhaustion while standing on bunny hills.



Good one!


----------



## catskillman (Feb 20, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> Probably in response to the epidemic of ski instructors dying from heat exhaustion while standing on bunny hills.



Great response.                                                            Wearing a helmet is just plain smart.....Easy as "ABC", 123


----------



## JDMRoma (Feb 20, 2015)

Domeskier said:


> Probably in response to the epidemic of ski instructors dying from heat exhaustion while standing on bunny hills.



Best post in thread right here !




Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## billski (Feb 20, 2015)

freeski said:


> I don't own a helmet. I've thought about getting one, but I doubt if I will. I like being in a lift line when a lot of other people don't have one on. I think the lift line looks cooler when everyone has a wool hat and isn't looking cool in the lift line what it's all about. :dunce:


  Please keep me posted where you ski.  When you have a fatal banger I'll be sure to collect the skis for you


----------



## billski (Feb 20, 2015)

abc said:


> Again, it's another confusion of two related but different issues.
> 
> I'm perfectly aware of the effect of instructor's wearing helmet or not. But my choice to not "led by example" is precisely because the effect is tiny. Or more importantly, it *should be *tiny. It's a matter of unrealistic expectations of some parents.
> 
> ...



Children are very impressionable.  You're setting an example, whether you intend to or not.  Whether they are in your class or not.  You're an authority figure like it or not.


----------



## steamboat1 (Feb 20, 2015)

Why do you guys care so much whether someone wears a helmet or not? Does it affect your life? No I didn't think so. I don't think anybody really cares what your opinions are. I know I don't.


----------



## freeski (Feb 20, 2015)

If no one wore a helmet skiing in New England for the rest of the year what would happen? If you're skiing hard in the woods no question you should have one. But, what if no one wore a helmet on trails for the rest of the year?


----------



## Quietman (Feb 20, 2015)

C-Rex said:


> Sometimes if it's really cold I just duct tape the inside to cover the vents.  Ghetto, I know, but the helmet I want to replace it with is like $230 and I'd rather spend that money actually snowboarding.



I have duct tape on my vents also, and haven't been tempted to remove it at any point of this cold snowy year. I don't give a rats ass what anyone else thinks!   I was wondering if it was the duck tape or the 2" mustache snotsicles that allowed me to ride the lift alone last weekend, but again, I really don't care!


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 21, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Why do you guys care so much whether someone wears a helmet or not? Does it affect your life? No I didn't think so. I don't think anybody really cares what your opinions are. I know I don't.



If you didn't care you wouldn't have taken the time to respond.  You may disagree, but you cared.   


.


----------



## billski (Feb 21, 2015)

steamboat1 said:


> Why do you guys care so much whether someone wears a helmet or not?


 'cause we wore out the other topics, it's a work day and we can't ski!


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 21, 2015)

billski said:


> 'cause we wore out the other topics, it's a work day and we can't ski!



+1. 

I guess I have never felt entitled enough to tell others what they must not care about.  It's a forum after all.  I'll tell you that you are factually wrong, but I won't dictate your values.  


.


----------



## Wavewheeler (Feb 21, 2015)

Ah, another helmet thread. Yes, I wear a helmet and insisted my daughter do as well. What others do is their business.  For me, it's win-win. It keeps my ears and head warm (and safe), and is a nice place for my goggles. Before the helmet I fell down a few times and saw stars and that was enough to convince me. I don't see a downside. I also wore a helmet when I raced my car and do white water kayaking/rafting. I plan to purchase one for riding my bike, that was my last holdout.


----------



## 1Kathleen (Feb 22, 2015)

Don't go in the woods much anymore and due to a few injuries I prefer the groomed cruising trails ( I know, boring). I would never go out without a helmet on any trail ever, not because I am concerned about hitting my head due to the one or two times I might fall  in a season but for self-defense against all the nut jobs skiing and boarding too fast or out of control. I have been knocked over a few times . At canon last year a skier was getting put on a back board at the bottom of a very icy section of a narrow trail and the ski patrol were trying to control the traffic by having everyone side slip down the sides when a high speed boarder came over the hill, hit the ice and took out my son and a few others. While he had a helmet on, he doesn't even remember getting knocked over.   For me wearing a helmet is like wearing a seat belt. I have a clean driving record, but I have no control what every one else on the road is doing. Be safe people.


----------



## skifree (Feb 22, 2015)

I only wear a helmet when I don't use my seatbelt.


----------



## abc (Feb 22, 2015)

1Kathleen said:


> For me wearing a helmet is like wearing a seat belt. I have a clean driving record, but I have no control what every one else on the road is doing.


I also haven't worn my seat belt for the past 2 years. 

I broke my collar bone 2 years ago and the seat belt irritates the spot. Eventually, it'll be better. But for the time being, it's unbearably painful. 

I don't have a perfect driving record. But the last 2 years, I hadn't needed that seat belt. 

For all the years I've worn a helmet, it hadn't touched the ground once. I've been taken down by another skier/boarder twice (one of each). Both times, the impact was on the boot. No body contact.


----------



## mriceyman (Feb 23, 2015)

Ill get a pic of my helmet later on.. Took a big branch right to the front of my helmet. Pierced a whole right in it. Wouldve hurt if i wasnt wearing a helmet


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


----------



## gmcunni (Feb 23, 2015)

almost too hot @ berkshire east yesterday to wear my helmet. thankfully my vents were open.  took it off on chair ride up (yes, had i fallen off the chair without it on i would have increased my likely hood of a serious head injury)


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 23, 2015)

mriceyman said:


> *Took a big branch right to the front of my helmet. Pierced a whole right in it. *



You were skiing so fast in the woods that it impaled your helmet?


----------



## C-Rex (Feb 23, 2015)

Wavewheeler said:


> I plan to purchase one for riding my bike, that was my last holdout.



You were riding your bike without one?  I thought bike helmets became the norm many years ago.  Sorry but that statement baffled me, especially when preceded by the others in which you profess the value of helmets.  I actually refuse to ride (my bike) with anyone not wearing a helmet.  Mainly because I refuse to cut my ride short and be part of a rescue effort for someone stupid enough not to wear one.

Also, how is this thread still going?


----------



## wtcobb (Mar 2, 2015)

For a harrowing perspective on TBIs, check out The Crash Reel of Kevin Pearce's injury and recovery. Also March is TBI awareness month. Have fun and be safe out there, everyone.


----------



## billski (Mar 2, 2015)

wtcobb said:


> be safe out there, everyone.



Sometimes, no matter what you do, be safe isn't in your control.  I should know


----------



## gmcunni (Mar 2, 2015)

deadheadskier said:


> How long do folks hang onto their helmets before replacing?  I think I've got 8 years on mine.  Dented all over but still works great.



in another thread (TBI or something like that) an interview with some Docs they said 7 years is max life.


----------



## billski (Mar 2, 2015)

gmcunni said:


> in another thread (TBI or something like that) an interview with some Docs they said 7 years is max life.


   Inspiring.  I've got 3 years left.  Hmm.


----------



## Scruffy (Mar 2, 2015)

I have 3 helmets ( different vent configurations and weights), and always wear one. I ski a lot of tight woods and while it may be true that a high speed impact with a tree may still cause a severe injury, or death, it's the smaller impacts I'm worried about. There are a lot of sharp broken off small limbs/branches that could spear your head. I've also caught a ski on a branch under snow, or even a rock and been pitched forward head long into a tree or rock, my helmet has saved me of some injuries. My helmets are all dented up, each of those dents represents a saved injury, regardless how small. And, helmets make a nice warm hat without the extreme hat hair. For warmer weather, I wear a ski helmet that resembles a bike helmet, it has so many vents.


----------



## Not Sure (May 1, 2015)

Another reason to wear a helmet.....LOL
Alfinator post #5
http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16504


----------



## Scruffy (May 1, 2015)

^^ PBR on the head .. love it .. break out the PBR love fest again .. where's my old avatar..  haha BG look what you started.


----------

