# Did Vail intentionally ruin snow reports?



## The Sneak (Dec 27, 2019)

Please help me understand why snow reports for all Vail-owned properties are so effing terrible. Why is there no descriptive text / paragraph? Please explain, understanding I am slow and sometimes need to sound out big words.

Thank you


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## mtl1076 (Dec 27, 2019)

Because they don't really care about the ski experience.  And they want to save money by making it all automated out of Colorado.


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## mbedle (Dec 27, 2019)

mtl1076 said:


> Because they don't really care about the ski experience.  And they want to save money by making it all automated out of Colorado.



So true! Call the snow phone, after enough bitching last year they finally brought back Andre. 

Has anyone heard of a lift going on hold for fog??? I guess there is a first time for everything.


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## mgalluzz (Dec 27, 2019)

In their business model, the quality of the conditions don't matter very much.  Everything is paid for in advance, so you're going skiing no matter what the snow report says.


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## Edd (Dec 27, 2019)

Wildcat’s report from today below. I’ve seen better, but it’s not terrible. 

COMMENTS
Think Snow

TGIF skiers and riders!  Mother Nature may be throwing some weird stuff our way, but that’s never stopped our Born Wild family.  Get out here, and when your legs just can’t make another turn, head to the Wildcat Pub for some stellar après vibes. 

Take your pick of 18 trails, 7.5 miles, and 122 acres of terrain.  Our groomers hit all of those trails with a fresh coat of cord, which has made for a purr-fectly shreddable morning.  Feel fast with a cruise down the Lynx trails, or take your time and make your way around Wild Kitten.  The Wildcat Express, Bobcat Triple, Snowbelt, and Snowcat Triple are open from 8:30 am-3:30 pm.

Our snowmakers are waiting on Mother Nature to give them the okay. Give them a hand and pray for snow!

As a little holiday bonus, we have après entertainment in the Wildcat Pub every day this week.
Cheers, and I will see you on the slopes,

-Mel


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## mtl1076 (Dec 27, 2019)

Looks like they haven't converted the new peak resorts to their snowreporting platform. Enjoy your last season with a decent snow report.


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## Zand (Dec 27, 2019)

mbedle said:


> Has anyone heard of a lift going on hold for fog??



Wait, what?!?


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 27, 2019)

mtl1076 said:


> Looks like they haven't converted the new peak resorts to their snowreporting platform. Enjoy your last season with a decent snow report.



On one hand I agree with this but I can also rationalize another theory, for Wildcat at least. 'Cat is a ski area not a resort. Nobody spends a week/end *at* Wildcat because there's no immediate lodging. Even if you're doing a multiday stay in Jackson you're still essentially day tripping to Wildcat, which arguably creates an implicit need for an informative report. That said if I had to guess one way or the other I do still believe Vail will purge Wildcats reports eventually. I also agree with the "just go ski regardless of conditions because you've already paid for your vacation" theory about Vail snow reports.


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## dblskifanatic (Dec 27, 2019)

https://www.stowe.com/the-mountain/mountain-conditions/snow-and-weather-report.aspx

Here is Stowe’s report. I find it has everything you need!

https://www.breckenridge.com/the-mountain/mountain-conditions/terrain-and-lift-status.aspx

Here is Breck’s reports!  Also has everything you need. 

Terrain status, percent ungroomed, weather forecast, snow in the last 24, 72 and week.

I find that the puffed up reports have a tendency to sugar coat so you come.  Even Wildcats above - Mother Nature is throwing some weird stuff our way!

We actually pay attention to forecasts for the most part!

Actually just get out there - you will find what makes you happy.  Oh and take what the mountain gives you!!!!!




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## mtl1076 (Dec 27, 2019)

SkiingInABlueDream said:


> On one hand I agree with this but I can also rationalize another theory, for Wildcat at least. 'Cat is a ski area not a resort. Nobody spends a week/end *at* Wildcat because there's no immediate lodging. Even if you're doing a multiday stay in Jackson you're still essentially day tripping to Wildcat, which arguably creates an implicit need for an informative report. That said if I had to guess one way or the other I do still believe Vail will purge Wildcats reports eventually. I also agree with the "just go ski regardless of conditions because you've already paid for your vacation" theory about Vail snow reports.



Mount snow and Crotched still have the narrative.  They will all change next year.  Okemo and Sunapee got their first season under the non-vail way. This year they are on the new platform.  Now Okemo puts out a narrative on their facebook page due to the backlash.


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## abc (Dec 27, 2019)

Vail is a resort that supports skiing. Wildcat is a no frill ski hill.

I've always found it annoying that to even find the snow report in the web site of ski "resorts". You have to hunt around all the lodging & deal marketing fluff to get to the snow reports. 



SkiingInABlueDream said:


> 'Cat is a ski area not a resort. Nobody spends a week/end *at* Wildcat because there's no immediate lodging.


You're totally right there.


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## mbedle (Dec 27, 2019)

abc said:


> Vail is a resort that supports skiing. Wildcat is a no frill ski hill.
> 
> I've always found it annoying that to even find the snow report in the web site of ski "resorts". You have to hunt around all the lodging & deal marketing fluff to get to the snow reports.
> 
> ...



Vail owns a couple of non-resort large ski areas and the websites are pretty much all the same (except the 3 in the midwest, they have their own format). Former Peaks resorts will all switch over next season to the standard Vail website format (including Wildcat).


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## mbedle (Dec 27, 2019)

Zand said:


> Wait, what?!?



Yep, Stowe quad was on hold this morning for low visibility. I am guess it was a health and safety issues not being able to visually inspect all the towers.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 27, 2019)

What difference does it make?  It's all marketing propaganda anyway.  Just publish an accurate list of what's open, groomed, new snow and where the snowmaking is and be done with it


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## mbedle (Dec 27, 2019)

icecoast1 said:


> What difference does it make?  It's all marketing propaganda anyway.  Just publish an accurate list of what's open, groomed, new snow and where the snowmaking is and be done with it



Couldn't agree more, unfortunately Vail does not do that.


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## Edd (Dec 27, 2019)

I guess the difference is that an originally written snow report adds a personal touch. Probably more appealing to locals than tourists. I like it. It doesn’t seem like such an effort for one marketing person a day to bang out a couple of short paragraphs. 


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Dec 27, 2019)

Edd said:


> I guess the difference is that an originally written snow report adds a personal touch. Probably more appealing to locals than tourists. I like it. It doesn’t seem like such an effort for one marketing person a day to bang out a couple of short paragraphs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone



This. Also when it's the same people doing that narrative for a mountain week after week you eventually can pick up subtleties, or read between the lines in the reports which is impossible when the report is just a list of open and closed trails and lifts. Aesthetically, I like the discussion type report.


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## cdskier (Dec 27, 2019)

Edd said:


> I guess the difference is that an originally written snow report adds a personal touch. Probably more appealing to locals than tourists. I like it. It doesn’t seem like such an effort for one marketing person a day to bang out a couple of short paragraphs.



Yes



SkiingInABlueDream said:


> This. Also when it's the same people doing that narrative for a mountain week after week you eventually can pick up subtleties, or read between the lines in the reports which is impossible when the report is just a list of open and closed trails and lifts. Aesthetically, I like the discussion type report.



And yes.


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## kbroderick (Dec 27, 2019)

The narrative also allows putting in info that doesn't fit into the standard report, e.g. "we are expecting high winds later, so hit the higher lifts early" or "we're hosting the 2020 Ski Off Challenge today, so expect 300 competitors and their families at the Main Base Lodge. We're opening the Less Used Lodge early to help make room, consider skiing from there today".

I haven't seen a canned report format that allows clearly sharing that info.


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## kingslug (Dec 27, 2019)

I tend to create my own report using all the available info i can get..including first hand accounts from here..and following the weather..
I find it amusing when im asked ...will it be icy you think???
No..not at all..it just rained for 2 days and went to 4 below zero at night...youll be good to go..


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## dblskifanatic (Dec 27, 2019)

icecoast1 said:


> What difference does it make?  It's all marketing propaganda anyway.  Just publish an accurate list of what's open, groomed, new snow and where the snowmaking is and be done with it



Agreed!


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## dblskifanatic (Dec 27, 2019)

How many people actually target a ski area or resort based on the snow report?  While I have checked them out it has not been much of an influence.  I think a majority will go to a favorite or location based on season passes.  

Weather reports often dictate what you can expect.


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## kingslug (Dec 27, 2019)

So far this season if you picked right you got the goods. When i was at bell several fridays ago we skied powder all day..no crowds...Hunter the next day was crowded and groomed. The week after was a gun snowstorm..if your fortunate to be able to take off whenever you want you can hit gold. Today at Hunter was good even with the rain..tomorrow..maybe not.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 27, 2019)

dblskifanatic said:


> *How many people actually target a ski area or resort based on the snow report?
> *




I do it all the time in n.VT.  The conditions at Jay Peak, Smuggler's Notch, Stowe, Sugarbush, etc... can vary dramatically at any given time.  Hell, sometimes the conditions at Stowe versus Smuggs can be pretty different, and they're right next to each other.


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## mtl1076 (Dec 28, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> I do it all the time in n.VT.  The conditions at Jay Peak, Smuggler's Notch, Stowe, Sugarbush, etc... can vary dramatically at any given time.  Hell, sometimes the conditions at Stowe versus Smuggs can be pretty different, and they're right next to each other.




This.  People check out the snow reports all the time to see what is going on and choose.  Not everyone has an epic pass and blindly goes to there epic resort.  Clearly Epic wants you to just buy the pass and forget about it...


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## MikeDeJ (Dec 28, 2019)

mtl1076 said:


> This.  People check out the snow reports all the time to see what is going on and choose.  Not everyone has an epic pass and blindly goes to there epic resort.  Clearly Epic wants you to just buy the pass and forget about it...



Or do most skiers (not the ones on this forum) just want to buy the pass a forget about it, they are going when they have the time and don't really care.

I agree with most of you I like to snow report with some description.
MikeD


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## 2Planker (Dec 28, 2019)

I read the Wildcat Snow Report everyday ! Even on days when I'm NOT skiing


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## gmcunni (Dec 28, 2019)

mtl1076 said:


> This.  People check out the snow reports all the time to see what is going on and choose.  Not everyone has an epic pass and blindly goes to there epic resort.  Clearly Epic wants you to just buy the pass and forget about it...



i have an epic pass. just skied two days at Breckenridge. I didn't bother to check ski reports before going, only the traffic reports for which way to go.


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## jimk (Dec 28, 2019)

gmcunni said:


> i have an epic pass. just skied two days at Breckenridge. I didn't bother to check ski reports before going, only the traffic reports for which way to go.



LOL.  The high variability in weather and ski conditions makes Easterners much more attuned to near term forecasts.


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## mtl1076 (Dec 28, 2019)

MikeDeJ said:


> Or do most skiers (not the ones on this forum) just want to buy the pass a forget about it, they are going when they have the time and don't really care.
> 
> I agree with most of you I like to snow report with some description.
> MikeD



Based on the web data I look at the two highest viewed pages are snow report and webcams.  And they are the most popular by a very wide margin.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 28, 2019)

2Planker said:


> I read the Wildcat Snow Report everyday ! Even on days when I'm NOT skiing


Same.  First website I visit every morning during ski season

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## cdskier (Dec 28, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> Same.  First website I visit every morning during ski season



I do the same for the Sugarbush snow report


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## kendo (Dec 28, 2019)

Dear Vail corporate IT Director,

Please add a ❄ snowmaking icon to the trail report on the Vail corporate website template used by Stowe and your  other eastern resorts in the future. 

Snowmaking is a season long requirement in the east.  Guests want to know on a daily basis where snowmaking is active for both open and closed trails.   


Thankfully, Stowe has added a small daily note and included their Twitter feed on their Trail Report page this year.


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## dblskifanatic (Dec 28, 2019)

gmcunni said:


> i have an epic pass. just skied two days at Breckenridge. I didn't bother to check ski reports before going, only the traffic reports for which way to go.



We do the same!  Pick some place and go!  We have the Epic Veteran and A Basin Veteran.

Back East we followed Ride and Ski or skied our Cannon Pass or skied deals that were time sensitive.

Weather sites offer a lot!


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## mbedle (Dec 29, 2019)

This is the shit reporting that Vail puts out... Both screen shots taken from the same webpage.


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## kingslug (Dec 29, 2019)

I wouldnt go by their reporting for anything..
First hand report for today...its crunchy up there


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## dblskifanatic (Dec 29, 2019)

mbedle said:


> This is the shit reporting that Vail puts out... Both screen shots taken from the same webpage. View attachment 25860View attachment 25861




Not seeing a problem so about 5-9 inches of snow coming.  For most people that is some snow.


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## urungus (Dec 30, 2019)

I hate what Vail has done to their snow reports and am bummed that the Mount Snow report will surely meet the same fate next season.

I was at Whistler on Friday and the snow report only listed a handful of black diamond trails open.  For instance, here is the report for the Harmony Ridge area showing no advanced terrain open:



However when I got over there, I was surprised to see the single and double black chutes between Harmony Ridge and Harmony Piste were open and swarmed with skiers.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 30, 2019)

What is the reasoning for this anyway?  

Obviously some of it is Vail's Borg-like fixation on standardization & complete control, even in things that have no benefit to standardization. 

Is it:

1) Lack of transparency beyond what's minimally required is a benefit for them?
2) Paranoia that allowing people to write as a "human", is a potential liability?


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## mbedle (Dec 30, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> What is the reasoning for this anyway?
> 
> Obviously some of it is Vail's Borg-like fixation on standardization & complete control, even in things that have no benefit to standardization.
> 
> ...



You are missing costs. From a business point of view, it's a lot easier to maintain and update websites using the same template. Can you imagine the amount of people that would be needed to update and upload daily 37 differently formatted websites with current information. The weather reporting  on their websites is also most likely automated, which does't require an individual at each resort to update every day. The weather commentary is probably handled by a single person in CO for the resorts that even provide that type of information.


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## icecoast1 (Dec 30, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> What is the reasoning for this anyway?
> 
> Obviously some of it is Vail's Borg-like fixation on standardization & complete control, even in things that have no benefit to standardization.
> 
> ...




Uniformity so the customer sees the same thing regardless of which property they visit.   Walk into a Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc.   although there may be slight differences at each store, they're generally pretty similar.  They also can significantly reduce the marketing departments at each mountain when everything is uniform and can be done from Colorado


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## cdskier (Dec 30, 2019)

mbedle said:


> You are missing costs. From a business point of view, it's a lot easier to maintain and update websites using the same template. Can you imagine the amount of people that would be needed to update and upload daily 37 differently formatted websites with current information. The weather reporting  on their websites is also most likely automated, which does't require an individual at each resort to update every day. The weather commentary is probably handled by a single person in CO for the resorts that even provide that type of information.



Even if we subscribe to the theory that a single person in CO is updating all the info*, someone at each resort is still supplying Vail corporate in CO with the info for what trails are open. Why can't that same person update the website themselves with a brief commentary? If the websites are properly designed, it should be simple for anyone to update them even if they have little computer knowledge and shouldn't require a full time job for each resort. The responsibilities for updating the "Snow Report" could in theory quite easily be just made a part of someone else's job at each mountain if you want to save money by not having a full time snow reporter.

*I'm honestly not sure I buy the theory that it really is a single person making the updates anyway. Looking at Stowe's website, their commentary was updated at 5:38AM. Is Vail really going to pay someone in CO to be up at 3AM just to start making website updates for the eastern resorts?

To me this seems more just like Vail being overly strict and draconian and wanting everything identical at all their resorts. If you want a corporate brand and standardization, fine. But you can still allow *some* degree of local customization that wouldn't completely be out of line with your corporate templates.


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## abc (Dec 30, 2019)

I’m not buying the “cost saving” theory. 

But there’s no denying Vail is a “resort” that has skiing. It’s not the only one though. Many other non-Vail-owned “resorts” also “hide” their snow report too! 

You can easily tell, the landing page tells you what they WANT you to see. If it’s a ski mountain, current condition report. If it’s a resort, current lodging “deals”! The priority is always clear.


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## kbroderick (Dec 30, 2019)

It's not updating the snow report data that benefits most from template standardization, it's website maintenance. Speaking as a software engineer, I'd expect the marginal cost to maintain an additional site on the same template to be nearly zero from an IT standpoint (content generation and management being a different matter but probably no more expensive on the standardized template).

I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some hook in to a larger database to allow for future reporting comparing revenue and expenses to trails open, lifts open, etc., which in turn makes standardization more important.

I still prefer to have a narrative for my decision making, though.


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## ss20 (Dec 31, 2019)

I'm visiting Sunday River in a couple weeks and have been keeping tabs on their snow report.  Whoever writes it does an AMAZING JOB with the blurb, imo.  Nice blend of information and "hype" without using the wayyyyy overused words like "epic", "gnar", etc.  It really makes you excited to get out there!



> There is no time for sleeping in today because as of 6AM we have 10-12" of fresh snow covering the slopes and it's not ready to stop just yet. We are capping off the year with the most open terrain in the East and a perfect powder day. With some of the new snow groomed in overnight and more light fluffy snow on top, it's going to feel as smooth as butter out there. It's finally the moment we have been waiting for, so skip the breakfast and snack on sweet powder laps instead. These conditions are drool-worthy, and Mother Nature is providing free refills.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 31, 2019)

I wish they'd all quit using "the most open terrain in the East" it's starting to sound tacky, with them all using it continuously.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 31, 2019)

The more that I think about it, I honestly think it's a skiing cultural difference as to why Vails snow reports are so lackluster compared to what people have been historically used to seeing here in the East.

Out West just doesn't have the same variable weather and snow conditions as we have in the East.  All that really matters out there is recent snowfall, acreage open and daily weather.  It's either a powder day or mainly packed powder except for steeper terrain that can indeed get skied down to hardpack out there.

Here in the East people expect a bit more detail and snowmaking commentary is much more valuable not just for the day ahead, but even a few days out.  People want to know what's getting resurfaced, what's being allowed to bump up, when they plan on making snow and opening a favorite trail for the season.  In short, how the mountain is handling operations tends to build the stoke almost as much as what mother nature is doing.   Essentially, a good snow report is a much more needed marketing tool here than it is out West.  It's kind of silly NOT to have a little blurb written about what's going on at the mountain and link it up on social media.  

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## Edd (Dec 31, 2019)

ss20 said:


> I'm visiting Sunday River in a couple weeks and have been keeping tabs on their snow report.  Whoever writes it does an AMAZING JOB with the blurb, imo.  Nice blend of information and "hype" without using the wayyyyy overused words like "epic", "gnar", etc.  It really makes you excited to get out there!



I think SR has been good about that for a long time. It was my home mountain for years. When I started to stray and read other reports I was puzzled at the lack of info sometimes.


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## mbedle (Dec 31, 2019)

deadheadskier said:


> The more that I think about it, I honestly think it's a skiing cultural difference as to why Vails snow reports are so lackluster compared to what people have been historically used to seeing here in the East.
> 
> Out West just doesn't have the same variable weather and snow conditions as we have in the East.  All that really matters out there is recent snowfall, acreage open and daily weather.  It's either a powder day or mainly packed powder except for steeper terrain that can indeed get skied down to hardpack out there.
> 
> ...



Very good point - I agree.


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## The Sneak (Dec 31, 2019)

You would think that sort of nuance and context would not be overlooked, given the size of their east coast investments.

I mean, Sunapee was closed most of yesterday w a power outage but you had to go to friggin Instagram to find that out.


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## kendo (Dec 31, 2019)

Stowe's report has improved this year compared to last year.  Embedding their Twitter feed into the trail report page has allowed them to real time update lift holds, parking capacity, etc.  Including a small paragraph at the top of the daily report allows them to mention snowmaking activities, overall surface or weather/wind conditions, etc. 

Note to Vail marketing: when the majority of your East coast customer base is living within a few 100' of sea level and not seeing any snow on the ground in month 3 of the season, the more you can promote mountain conditions, the better for your business.


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## skicub (Dec 31, 2019)

“Most open terrain in the East” matters to people who can day trip anywhere in the East, those of us who live in Northern-Southern New England (I.e. Massholes). If I see that Killington has it up, I know that Vermont is likely where I should head. If it’s Sunday River/Loaf, I know New Hampshire and Maine are a better bet. It may seem trite, but it’s not JUST a marketing tactic if you dig below the surface. 

Side note: trying to plan a day trip to Stowe last year was nearly impossible because of the lack of info on their Snow reports. The day I did make it up ended up being sort of shitty because I couldn’t keep an eye and plan accordingly. When I showed up, things were not going according to how their daily trail reports had been trending because of unexpected circumstances that could have been easily spelled out in a few sentences. Super Lame!


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## abc (Dec 31, 2019)

skicub said:


> Side note: trying to plan a day trip to Stowe last year was nearly impossible because of the lack of info on their Snow reports. The day I did make it up ended up being sort of shitty because I couldn’t keep an eye and plan accordingly. When I showed up, things were not going according to how their daily trail reports had been trending because of unexpected circumstances that could have been easily spelled out in a few sentences. Super Lame!


Don't go to Stowe then.

If they don't promote the snow condition, skiers from the flat land will stop coming. 

Now with the Peak purchase, many flatlanders have several mountain to choose from without taking the long drive to Stowe. When we do go, we only go when condition is excellent. If I don't know, I won't go. 

They'll learn. The best part of Vail's Peak purchase is they're now competing against each other in the northeast.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 31, 2019)

The Sneak said:


> You would think that sort of nuance and context would not be overlooked, given the size of their east coast investments.



Yeah, I'm not buying that, Vail doesn't, "overlook" anything, it's intentional.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 31, 2019)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yeah, I'm not buying that, Vail doesn't, "overlook" anything, it's intentional.


Intentional for what? Cost savings?



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## puckoach (Jan 1, 2020)

While this site has a lot of pass holders, the majority of New England ski days are from ticket purhasers. Who have optional hill choices.  Not that they change easily.  But, do so over time.

Much of this is full pay.  

They will learn that a marketing savings on accurate reports will cost them.  (IMHO)


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## xlr8r (Jan 1, 2020)

I like an honest writeup snow report but a lot of them are just PR BS.  Looking at Mount Snow's report this morning after all the problems they have had this week with icing, lifts down, lightning, crowds, etc the snow report starts off with "So far 2020 has brought us an inch of snow-- I'd say we're off to a good start." The snow report does get into the lift issues further on, but that first line must feel like a slap in the face to customers that have been suffering there this week.  https://www.mountsnow.com/ski-ride/snow-report/


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## Orca (Jan 1, 2020)

Mountain snow reports have evolved into marketing spin with the good news exaggerated and the bad news suppressed. It's a sort of lightweight deception they seem all too willing to perpetrate. It is a matter of degree, but the more resorts spin the report, the more they erode reader trust. They are trading their long-term reputation for short-term gain, and it is weakly justified by the "everyone is doing it" excuse.


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## kbroderick (Jan 1, 2020)

Orca said:


> Mountain snow reports have evolved into marketing spin with the good news exaggerated and the bad news suppressed. It's a sort of lightweight deception they seem all too willing to perpetrate. It is a matter of degree, but the more resorts spin the report, the more they erode reader trust. They are trading their long-term reputation for short-term gain, and it is weakly justified by the "everyone is doing it" excuse.



Evolved into?

I'm not *that* old, but I still can't recall a time when you didn't need to take at least a couple of inches off the top of most snow reports.

I think that overall, there's less BS in snow reporting now than there was 20 years ago. Information on conditions is more readily available from third-party sources (especially instagram/FB), and while that may not help when you're trying to make a 6 a.m. decision on where to go—or whether to go to work or call in—it's not all that hard to figure out if Mountain A tends to be relatively accurate or not (and they probably will get called out on BS on social media, too).

I do agree with the second part of your comment, though, and there are places (MRG comes to mind) that take pride in being brutally honest and earn a lot of trust in the process.


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## Orca (Jan 1, 2020)

kbroderick said:


> Evolved into?
> 
> I'm not *that* old, but I still can't recall a time when you didn't need to take at least a couple of inches off the top of most snow reports.



I'm inclined to agree.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 1, 2020)

Orca said:


> *Mountain snow reports have evolved into marketing spin with the good news exaggerated and the bad news suppressed.*



I disagree with this. 

 While there will always be "spin" in these marketing reports, I believe they are on balance far more accurate & honest today than when I was a kid.  It's not that they found their honor, it's that there is almost no point in lying in the age of the internet.  As such, few resorts are guilty of outrageous snow-report fibbing these days.  For a real-life example, Jay Peak used to be horrendously misleading, but today is a very honest report.  Yes, there are some that still routinely outright lie (Camelback is the worst I can think of), but they're few & far between now.


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## kingslug (Jan 2, 2020)

Frozen granular...still a favorite..
.


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## kingslug (Jan 3, 2020)

Well..they are changing Stowe..


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## kendo (Jan 3, 2020)

From the accumulation on the pines, no idea why the rope's up?

Stowe used to be known for their iconic red gondolas - now it's ropes, poles and plastic rounds.  

Saw your pic in the other thread showing Stowe patrol blocked off a small ramp, top of Main Street:  






Meanwhile Telluride posted a video on their Facebook page yesterday of (6) skiers in succession doing back flips off a cat track in what looks to be Revelation bowl.   Different corporate attitudes on display!


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## kingslug (Jan 3, 2020)

They closed a bunch of runs that were perfect yesterday..chin clip was in great shape..the s53 to the middle of star was in great shape..and with warm temps today everything was like spring..even hayride is closed...
Next season im getting an icon pass as well so i can hit SB whenever i want


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## kendo (Jan 4, 2020)

Today's report:  "81 trails, 50 groomed, 20 miles of packed powder" - yet S53, Lower Starr, Hayride and most DD's reported closed today?   Hoping for some good accumulation the next few days as I'll be up on Monday for the week.   Also thinking of the SB option for next year.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 4, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Frozen granular...still a favorite..



It's the all-time chart-topper that I dont think it can be beat in the snow report context. 

 It's right up there with pre-owned cars, etc...


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 4, 2020)

kingslug said:


> They closed a bunch of runs that were perfect yesterday..chin clip was in great shape..



Clin Clip was closed?  That's one of my favorite runs at Stowe, and the sort of expert terrain one would think remain open.  Clearly Vails lawyers are now in charge.  Very sad.


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## kendo (Jan 4, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Clin Clip was closed?  That's one of my favorite runs at Stowe, and the sort of expert terrain one would think remain open.  Clearly Vails lawyers are now in charge.  Very sad.



Risk management professional in charge:

http://news.vailresorts.com/mountai...unces-karen-wagner-as-ski-patrol-director.htm

Nothing but respect for ski patrols on all mountains but mountain ops have definitely gone ultra conservative at Stowe.  All the yellow warning banners they placed between Midway and the Gondola entrance did nothing to stop the run away snowboard that zipped thru the gondola queue and ended up in the creek when I was up a couple weeks ago.  Will probably see more nets going up.


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## kingslug (Jan 4, 2020)

We will see tomorrow..its pounding up there now,at least 6 inches will be on the ground tomorrow. Chin clip opened but was pretty firm even with a a few inches coating it..was fun but a lot of work..for me and 2 kids on snowboards. By 345 everything had a good coating. Middle national and middle Hayride were still closed as well as Goat and all the upper front 4's. Tomorrow i would think they could open. Even though i left jay after 1 run due to pure ice ..the whole place was marked open..


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## JimG. (Jan 5, 2020)

kendo said:


> Risk management professional in charge:
> 
> http://news.vailresorts.com/mountai...unces-karen-wagner-as-ski-patrol-director.htm
> 
> Nothing but respect for ski patrols on all mountains but mountain ops have definitely gone ultra conservative at Stowe.  All the yellow warning banners they placed between Midway and the Gondola entrance did nothing to stop the run away snowboard that zipped thru the gondola queue and ended up in the creek when I was up a couple weeks ago.  Will probably see more nets going up.



More megapass effects...Killington has signs at all lift lines reminding guests that vaping and cannabis are prohibited; but apparently it's still OK to drink beer on lifts and ski like an asshole.

And a friend of mine relayed a story of ducking a rope at K and being hunted down by ski patrollers who threatened to pull his season pass. That's a $1,000 threat. This makes me wonder what happens to Ikon passholders who duck ropes. Do they get their Ikon passes pulled? Or do they just lose their days at K? Or probably more likely nothing happens to them.

Just more disrespect to loyal season passholders.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 5, 2020)

Not sure if it's a new thing. I've rarely been to Stowe when all the "front 5" were open. I always thought they were conservative with the trail openings especially compared to all their neighbors.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 5, 2020)

JimG. said:


> And a friend of mine relayed a story of ducking a rope at K and being hunted down by ski patrollers who threatened to pull his season pass. That's a $1,000 threat. This *makes me wonder what happens to Ikon passholders who duck ropes. Do they get their Ikon passes pulled? Or do they just lose their days at K? Or probably more likely nothing happens to them.*
> 
> Just more disrespect to loyal season passholders.



Hah!  Great point, I hadnt thought about that.  

If I had to guess, I'd go with option #2, which yes, is another example of the "loyal" SPH being treated worse.


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## kingslug (Jan 5, 2020)

Stowe pulls your pass for 4 weeks


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## kendo (Jan 8, 2020)

Today's on slope report... Great conditions at Stowe.  Powder everywhere, still coming down and most everything in play.   Take a couple vacation days and get out before this weekend if you can!


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## kingslug (Jan 8, 2020)

Just did 7 days up there...got to get rid of this work thing!!!


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## kingslug (Jan 8, 2020)

Guess they got it right today: 
[h=3]Today's Forecast[/h]




[*=center][FONT=icons !important][/FONT] 18°F
[*=center]Overcast


25°F
[FONT=icons !important] HI[/FONT]

-1°F
[FONT=icons !important] LOW[/FONT]


2-4in
DAYTIME SNOW


1-2in
OVERNIGHT SNOW

[*=center]Possible light snow in the afternoon.


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## kendo (Jan 8, 2020)

Awesome 2 days so far this week. Legs are shot.  Still snowing steady.  Light and dry.   4-6" on trails with 8"-10" from yesterday and today along edges and in trees.  Spruce Line opened this afternoon and was deep.


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## prsboogie (Jan 8, 2020)

Today was fantastic at Stowe. Conservative 4+ by 9 this am. Day three for us and I was smoked by 11. Monday and Tuesday were fine but finally getting towards midwinter conditions on the mountain. Definitely need to work on powder legs!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using AlpineZone mobile app


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## kingslug (Jan 8, 2020)

Ohhhh...i knew i should have quit my job and stayed up there...lol.


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