# Berkshire East & Catamount: 3 New Lifts, Terrain Expansions



## ne_skier (Mar 10, 2021)

I haven't skied either of these, but I came across some plans. Looks very interesting. For Catamount, new Glade lift (Already planned, likely a triple) and a second lift which will likely go on an unspecified terrain expansion, all happening this summer. Berkshire East is also looking at a terrain expansion and a new lift following a previously permitted line from the Deerfield River up to the top of Mohawk. Both mountains are also receiving energy and snowmaking upgrades








						Catamount and Berkshire East update!
					

A Letter From Jon Schaefer Dear Catamount and Berkshire East Passholders and Guests, Ahh, March in Massachusetts, thou art more lovely and more temperate than… than… than, the arctic? Anyway, I am confident that soon enough we will settle into the business of spring skiing -- at least for a few...




					catamountski.com


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## urungus (Mar 10, 2021)

Fantastic news!!  I had become convinced that the terrain expansion at Berkshire East had been put on indefinite hold because their attention had been diverted to Catamount and Bousquet.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 10, 2021)

a mile east of current base, at the river, going to top of mohawk, would look like this (potential area of terrain expansion also circled). pretty cool.


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## ne_skier (Mar 10, 2021)

Looks like it'll be a massive step forward for them, and considering part (if not all) of this is already permitted, it should hopefully speed up the process. Being a lift nerd I am confined to the thought of "what will the lift be", and as a Liftblog commenter suggested, the Green Ridge Triple at Okemo which is coming down this summer in favor of a HSQ happens to be about the right length for the new B-East line. If it's too short they could always use it at Catamount for their expansion.








						Green Ridge – Okemo, VT
					

Visit the post for more.




					liftblog.com


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## Newpylong (Mar 10, 2021)

It is crazy to see now because both of these places were on borrowed time / life support in the early 90s when I skied in Western MA.


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## Zand (Mar 10, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> a mile east of current base, at the river, going to top of mohawk, would look like this (potential area of terrain expansion also circled). pretty cool.
> 
> View attachment 50841


I hope they don't bike trail the shit out of the terrain over there. Can be tough skiing the woods with the often thin cover because there's loose rocks everywhere and birms to screw up any good lines.

This is an awesome update though!


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## ne_skier (Mar 10, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> It is crazy to see now because both of these places were on borrowed time / life support in the early 90s when I skied in Western MA.


All across the east resorts like these seem to be getting more popular just due to their convenience for families that aren't able to go to mountains further away, don't need extreme terrain, or don't ski often. Coronavirus really helped out too, as more people want to stay local and these types of resorts provide them with a good option. As someone who learned at a small resort and became a pretty good skier (or so I think), I can definitely testify that they are great places to get into skiing for the first time as well.


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## machski (Mar 10, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> All across the east resorts like these seem to be getting more popular just due to their convenience for families that aren't able to go to mountains further away, don't need extreme terrain, or don't ski often. *Coronavirus really helped out too, as more people want to stay local and these types of resorts provide them with a good option. *As someone who learned at a small resort and became a pretty good skier (or so I think), I can definitely testify that they are great places to get into skiing for the first time as well.


For now.  The last thing any resort operator would want to do is over-react to perceived increased visitation this year.  Maybe it sticks around when other activities normalize, maybe it doesn't.  These plans have been in the works for some time, I doubt they are moving forward just from this season's #'s.


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## skimagic (Mar 10, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> I haven't skied either of these, but I came across some plans. Looks very interesting. For Catamount, new Glade lift (Already planned, likely a triple) and a second lift which will likely go on an unspecified terrain expansion, all happening this summer. Berkshire East is also looking at a terrain expansion and a new lift following a previously permitted line from the Deerfield River up to the top of Mohawk. Both mountains are also receiving energy and snowmaking upgrades
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The catamount expansion looks to be extending a few trails down the fall line below  sidewinder.  So potentially 3 lifts serving the NY side.


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## ne_skier (Mar 11, 2021)

If the lift is accessible from that overflow lot I wonder if they'd build a small warming hut there with a ticket booth, I'm not sure how much they need another base area but it could help further popularize the expansion


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## Killingtime (Mar 11, 2021)

I'd rather see Catamount get their snowmaking up to speed so that they can open some diamond trails earlier in the season, but any expansion is great news. Glad both are making enough money to fund these improvements, especially Catamount which was beaten down and neglected IMO. It's amazing what good ski resort operators can do with a place.


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## Newpylong (Mar 11, 2021)

As long as the trails are not as poorly laid out as those Les Otten specials they put in last season.


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## ne_skier (Mar 18, 2021)

Got some intel about Catamount's new lifts. Looks like the Glades Triple will be a used triple chair from Purgatory, CO (The former Legends lift, 1985 Poma triple). It doesn't have bars so it will likely need new ones before reinstallation. It may also use a similar model drive from the old Valley House lift at Sugarbush.





						Télésiège fixe 3 places  (TSF3) Legends - www.remontees-mecaniques.net
					

n/a




					www.remontees-mecaniques.net
				



The expansion lift, however, will be the Yodeler Quad at Holiday Valley, a 2001 Garaventa-CTEC fixed-grip quad being replaced this summer. It's the same manufacturer as the Ridge Quad but 2 years newer, and although the designs may be different there should be a lot of parts commonality between them.








						Yodeler – Holiday Valley, NY
					

Visit the post for more.




					liftblog.com
				



The Berkshire East lift is still unknown


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## crystalmountainskier (Mar 19, 2021)

Berkshire East's lift will be truly new.


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## ne_skier (Mar 19, 2021)

Where did you hear that? It wouldn’t shock me as their newest lift (summit quad, 2014 Skytrac) is brand new


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## ne_skier (May 15, 2021)

New info regarding lifts (From Storm Skiing Journal): Both of Catamount's new lifts (Glades, Expansion lift) will be fixed quads, with one of them being the former Yodeler quad from Holiday Valley, NY. Berkshire East's "new" lift will be a refurbished triple from a lost ski area in Canada, perhaps from Talisman Mountain Resort.


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## skimagic (Jun 7, 2021)

Catamount began the glades replacement, with a quad, today. 
 it looks like the second chair to be installed this summer is for the old catamount chair rather than an expansion on the NY side.


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## ne_skier (Jun 7, 2021)

Will look into this
With Catamount's removal, there will be only two center pole chairlifts left in the northeast: Hunt Hollow, NY and Bousquet, MA. With Bryce, VA also likely removing their SLI this year, there will be no SLI lifts in the east come this ski season.


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## zyk (Jun 7, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Will look into this
> With Catamount's removal, there will be only two center pole chairlifts left in the northeast: Hunt Hollow, NY and Bousquet, MA. With Bryce, VA also likely removing their SLI this year, there will be no SLI lifts in the east come this ski season.


Does Jiminy Peak still have their last center pole Riblet or was it removed?  Haven't been in awhile but grew up on those chairs.


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## ss20 (Jun 7, 2021)

zyk said:


> Does Jiminy Peak still have their last center pole Riblet or was it removed?  Haven't been in awhile but grew up on those chairs.



Chairs were replaced, no longer center pole.

Shame about the Catamount double.  That was one of the oldest chairs left on the East coast.


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## p_levert (Jun 8, 2021)

The Catamount quad is the old Yodeler lift from Holiday Valley, which is being replaced by a HSQ.  The HV project is a pretty big deal, as you can see in this video on Facebook: 


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=500204481400139


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## ne_skier (Jul 29, 2021)

Update: Catamount and Berkshire East have both likely cancelled their expansions, meaning that only Catamount will receive upgrades this summer, with both the Catamount and Glades Quads expected to be in for the winter.


			Western Massachusetts Construction Ramps Up - NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com


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## ss20 (Jul 29, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Update: Catamount and Berkshire East have both likely cancelled their expansions, meaning that only Catamount will receive upgrades this summer, with both the Catamount and Glades Quads expected to be in for the winter.
> 
> 
> Western Massachusetts Construction Ramps Up - NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com



Building too much too quickly?  Love B-East and Catamount but the amount of new shiny toys at both places was getting to the point where you had to question where the money was/is coming from.


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## urungus (Jul 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Building too much too quickly?  Love B-East and Catamount but the amount of new shiny toys at both places was getting to the point where you had to question where the money was/is coming from.



What “shiny new toys” are there at Berkshire East ?  The Summit Quad will be entering its seventh season in the fall, and all the other lifts were installed before that and are second-hand to boot.


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## ss20 (Jul 29, 2021)

urungus said:


> What “shiny new toys” are there at Berkshire East ?  The Summit Quad will be entering its seventh season in the fall, and all the other lifts were installed before that and are second-hand to boot.



Off the top of my head....the longggg new trails off the backside, the mountain coaster, and yes, the Summit Quad.  I don't know enough about the snowmaking system to comment but it's certainly newer.  You can't deny that B-East has seen a significant amount of investment in it the past decade.  Much more than other mountains of its size.


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## ne_skier (Jul 29, 2021)

Catamount has honestly seen some pretty tremendous growth lift-wise. In the early 2000s their fleet consisted of the Ridge Double, an aging Hall/Doppelmayr frankenlift, the Glade and Catamount lifts and the Mountain View lift, a secondhand early 1960s Roebling relocated from Belleayre in 1984. Not only has the size of the fleet grown since then with the addition of  Promenade, but every lift standing at that time has since been replaced. Bittersweet as a lift fan, but I'm sure Catamount skiers have good thoughts about the growth and investment.


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## urungus (Jul 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Off the top of my head....the longggg new trails off the backside, the mountain coaster, and yes, the Summit Quad.  I don't know enough about the snowmaking system to comment but it's certainly newer.  You can't deny that B-East has seen a significant amount of investment in it the past decade.  Much more than other mountains of its size.



mountain coaster is 7 years old
outback/roundabout opened 27 years ago
thunder/bolt are heading into their 4th season and are the worst trails on the mountain, although the woods between Thunder and Mohawk / Bolt are interesting, during the nice conditions last February I started exploring over there.

So nothing really exciting in last 7 years, been hearing about the expansion down to the river for awhile now, was really hoping they would make some progress on this.  Instead it seems like they are spending most of their efforts at Catamount and Bousquet


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## ss20 (Jul 29, 2021)

urungus said:


> mountain coaster is 7 years old
> outback/roundabout opened 27 years ago
> thunder/bolt are heading into their 4th season and are the worst trails on the mountain, although the woods between Thunder and Mohawk / Bolt are interesting, during the nice conditions last February I started exploring over there.
> 
> So nothing really exciting in last 7 years, been hearing about the expansion down to the river for awhile now, was really hoping they would make some progress on this.  Instead it seems like they are spending most of their efforts at Catamount and Bousquet



We could go back and fourth all night on this...I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you sound like you're trying to make the argument Berkshire East isn't seeing adequate investment or is "due" for something new??  That's just not true...they're wayyyy ahead of their local competition in improvements.  

Jiminy Peak- no improvements the past decade, except for adding snowmaking on a single trail and a few new snowmaking ponds/pumps
Butternut- nothing added the past decade
Bousquet- was literally falling apart before new owners
Sundown- one new trail (Satan's Stairway AZ debacle....oh boy that was a good one)
Mohawk- taken good care of by the family...lodge was blown out and all but one lift was replaced in the late 00s and early 10s...I'd say its seen as much investment as Berkshire East save for zero summer stuff at Mohawk while BEast has put tons of $$$ into making a premier bike park.  

Catamount before it was taken over had seen a couple new trails cut but no other improvements since the quad went in in '07ish.


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## urungus (Jul 30, 2021)

Since the Berkshire East Summit Quad & Mountain Coaster debuted seven years ago in 2014:

Catamount:
complete renovation of main Berkshire Lodge
new Catamount Lodge
new Promenade triple
new quad replacing Glade double
new quad replacing Catamount double
two new double black trails

Bosquet:
new main lodge
new summit triple

Berkshire East:
zero new lifts or lift improvements
minor renovations to main lodge
one new flat green trail


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## Newpylong (Jul 30, 2021)

I also question whether this ownership is going a little too fast on these capital expenditures, but hard to judge without seeing their P&L. That's their business.

If I was a rider down there I would question more how they are being done. To install the triple at Bosuquet they essentially turned the place into a bowl. I mean, it's really bad... wide open scar on the front. No real trail separation left in the middle.

At Catamount you have that new eye sore down the fall line next to Catapult, essentially the same trail. The two they added over by Fisher's aren't much better, fit in to be fit in and not much care for the natural topography.

Capital improvements are good, but the character of each place should be retained. Both places look substantially altered and not in a good way now IMHO.


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## machski (Jul 30, 2021)

ss20 said:


> We could go back and fourth all night on this...I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you sound like you're trying to make the argument Berkshire East isn't seeing adequate investment or is "due" for something new??  That's just not true...they're wayyyy ahead of their local competition in improvements.
> 
> Jiminy Peak- no improvements the past decade, except for adding snowmaking on a single trail and a few new snowmaking ponds/pumps
> Butternut- nothing added the past decade
> ...


Not for nothing, but Butternut is investing this summer.  Their old Double is out and a new Skytrac Quad is to go in (though they also have Wyndham's old Wonderama Lift in storage too,).


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## ss20 (Jul 30, 2021)

urungus said:


> Since the Berkshire East Summit Quad & Mountain Coaster debuted seven years ago in 2014:
> 
> Catamount:
> complete renovation of main Berkshire Lodge
> ...



And that's all under the new ownership of James and his team.  Before he took over, nothing at either mountain.


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## ss20 (Jul 30, 2021)

machski said:


> Not for nothing, but Butternut is investing this summer.  Their old Double is out and a new Skytrac Quad is to go in (though they also have Wyndham's old Wonderama Lift in storage too,).



I saw that.  Wish they'd cut some new trails off of the green from the top.  You could fit a few nice black runs in there down to crosstown or intersecting with the bottom of Lucifer's


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## Newpylong (Aug 1, 2021)

That short double had nostalgic value to me as they were running the Stadeli chairs from Brodie's Gramps lift.


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## ne_skier (Aug 1, 2021)

Was one of the last lifts running with Carlevaro & Savio parts. Built in 1969, it was one of the company's last lifts, later that year they would go bankrupt building Killington's original gondola. Currently, the only unmodified Carlevaro & Savio lifts left are the Bonanza and Outpost lifts at Pico.
Ironically, the "new" chairs added to replace the original ones are actually older than the rest of the lift by 5 years, the Gramp's lift at Brodie which the chairs came from was built in 1964.


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## Newpylong (Aug 2, 2021)

ne_skier said:


> Was one of the last lifts running with Carlevaro & Savio parts. Built in 1969, it was one of the company's last lifts, later that year they would go bankrupt building Killington's original gondola. Currently, the only unmodified Carlevaro & Savio lifts left are the Bonanza and Outpost lifts at Pico.
> Ironically, the "new" chairs added to replace the original ones are actually older than the rest of the lift by 5 years, the Gramp's lift at Brodie which the chairs came from was built in 1964.


Except those carriers weren't the original ones at Brodie - Gramp's had centerpoles until the late 70s. It got the blue slatted chairs (that ended up at Butternut) when Andy's lift went in next door at that point.


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## ne_skier (Aug 2, 2021)

Oh I didn't know that, thanks for that bit of info! Andy's was installed in 1977 so that makes sense


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## IceEidolon (Aug 8, 2021)

ss20 said:


> We could go back and fourth all night on this...I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you sound like you're trying to make the argument Berkshire East isn't seeing adequate investment or is "due" for something new??  That's just not true...they're wayyyy ahead of their local competition in improvements.
> 
> Jiminy Peak- no improvements the past decade, except for adding snowmaking on a single trail and a few new snowmaking ponds/pumps.


Jiminy replaced just about every snowgun in their fleet in the 2015 to 2017 timeframe. It's debatable if that was actually an improvement, but at the time there was a major push from the Fairbanks group to get into snowgun manufacture. This includes cutting up modern HKDs to weld homemade heads on them and sending demo models out to several Northeast mountains. Ask about the Sledgehammer gun...

On the unambiguously positive side they're doing a lot with sustainability generally, with efficient lighting installed, the solar farm, waste snowmaking heat use, etc.


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## Newpylong (Aug 9, 2021)

Having used the Sledehammers I also would question whether it's an upgrade or not. They are kinda turds that make wet snow in all conditions. I think the HKD Standards/Genesis/Spectrums they had were just as good. Not sure if they went into R&D looking at the bottom line for the long game or to actually sell them to non-Fairbanks areas.


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## IceEidolon (Aug 10, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Having used the Sledehammers I also would question whether it's an upgrade or not. They are kinda turds that make wet snow in all conditions. I think the HKD Standards/Genesis/Spectrums they had were just as good. Not sure if they went into R&D looking at the bottom line for the long game or to actually sell them to non-Fairbanks areas.


Compared to a Standard, you can get double the flow (on a tower) at the same temperature with a Sledgehammer... but for what they wanted for a Sledgehammer head, they could have bought SV10 or Impulse towers with better quality in marginal and better output in the cold. There was absolutely a hope to sell, I was at the sales pitch conference at Jiminy. 

I will say that when it had the right pressure, the Sledgehammer was the best single-flow low E gun I've run. Anything with valves would run away from it though.


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## Newpylong (Aug 10, 2021)

How many other single stage low-e guns are there? I have never run any...


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## ss20 (Aug 10, 2021)

What works for snow gun tech is known and what doesn't work is also known.  All the snowgun manufacturers I'm sure are using the best technology and the best engineers before they make a new snowgun.  Jiminy Peak thought they could do better?  It's not 1970 or 1980 anymore...I'm not really sure the point of making something in-house.  

Maybe I'm missing something.  I was aware of Jiminy's snowmaking program....I did not know they were trying to export it out.  Maybe the quality of the snow is good, maybe it's bad....who knows as they close a trail down for snowmaking whenever they light up 3 or 4 guns on it


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## machski (Aug 14, 2021)

Was out at Berkshire East today, totally blown away by their Mountain Bike scene.  Did not expect that, tons of riders, parking lot had to be 75% full at least, two lifts in use to the summit both with dedicated bike carriers between regular chairs.  Have to give it to them, they are drawing strongly for that.  Their mountain coaster is why we stopped by.  One of the longest I have ridden, well placed on the hill away from the ski trails.  That wasn't busy at all but darn was it fun.  Nice operation there.


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## ss20 (Aug 14, 2021)

machski said:


> Was out at Berkshire East today, totally blown away by their Mountain Bike scene.  Did not expect that, tons of riders, parking lot had to be 75% full at least, two lifts in use to the summit both with dedicated bike carriers between regular chairs.  Have to give it to them, they are drawing strongly for that.  Their mountain coaster is why we stopped by.  One of the longest I have ridden, well placed on the hill away from the ski trails.  That wasn't busy at all but darn was it fun.  Nice operation there.



My understanding is it's arguably the premier lift served mountain biking destination in the East.

I could be totally wrong tho.


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## skiur (Aug 15, 2021)

ss20 said:


> My understanding is it's arguably the premier lift served mountain biking destination in the East.
> 
> I could be totally wrong tho.



I thought Killington had that honor...the beast vs the beast!  Never been to Berkshire east so can't really say.


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## JimG. (Aug 15, 2021)

skiur said:


> I thought Killington had that honor...the beast vs the beast!  Never been to Berkshire east so can't really say.


I've heard the same said about MTB at Plattekill.


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## Newpylong (Aug 15, 2021)

Killington or Highlands likely would get that nod.

So they use both the summit Quad and triple for biking at once? That's great to see it so busy.


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## cdskier (Aug 15, 2021)

JimG. said:


> I've heard the same said about MTB at Plattekill.



Does Platty even offer lift served MTB anymore? For some reason I thought they stopped it (or only offer it a few select days/weekends)


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## machski (Aug 16, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Killington or Highlands likely would get that nod.
> 
> So they use both the summit Quad and triple for biking at once? That's great to see it so busy.


Yup, pretty sure the Triple is only run when they have a need.  While I was there, the Quad had a consistent line but the Triple was basically ride on.


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## NYSnowflake (Nov 9, 2021)

ss20 said:


> We could go back and fourth all night on this...I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you sound like you're trying to make the argument Berkshire East isn't seeing adequate investment or is "due" for something new??  That's just not true...they're wayyyy ahead of their local competition in improvements.
> 
> Jiminy Peak- no improvements the past decade, except for adding snowmaking on a single trail and a few new snowmaking ponds/pumps
> Butternut- nothing added the past decade
> ...


I believe Catamount has a nice new lodge… though I don’t know what year it was completed.


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## Killingtime (Nov 9, 2021)

NYSnowflake said:


> I believe Catamount has a nice new lodge… though I don’t know what year it was completed.


Yes, the new lodge at Catamount is very nice. Somebody did a great job on it. I think it's only about 3 years old.


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## ss20 (Nov 9, 2021)

Killingtime said:


> Yes, the new lodge at Catamount is very nice. Somebody did a great job on it. I think it's only about 3 years old.



Yes...done by the BEast group of people.  Old owners were broke and the mountain was falling into neglect after the recession.


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## urungus (Nov 11, 2021)

New lodge at Bousquet is also looking nice, the old one was getting quite run down …








						Bousquet Mountains' New Base Lodge Looks Stunning
					

Bousquet Mountain in Pittsfield, Massachusetts has been transformed since Mill Town Investment Group bought the property in May 2020. First came a triple chairlift last season, and they went even b…




					unofficialnetworks.com


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## rebel1916 (Nov 12, 2021)

JimG. said:


> I've heard the same said about MTB at Plattekill.


I love Platty, but their MTB days are over a decade in the past.  Last I heard they are running 3 weekends a year, and I know they haven't done any trail building (or even real maintenance, in  years.


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## RH29 (Nov 24, 2021)

Looks like Catamount completely got rid of any trail separation on the front face...and I have to say it looks terrible.  The replacement for the Cata double doesn't look like it's in, and the trees are completely gone all the way from Race Slope to Off Stage.


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## PAabe (Nov 24, 2021)

They must be trying to win the widest trail competition that is all the rage


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## Newpylong (Nov 24, 2021)

RH29 said:


> Looks like Catamount completely got rid of any trail separation on the front face...and I have to say it looks terrible.  The replacement for the Cata double doesn't look like it's in, and the trees are completely gone all the way from Race Slope to Off Stage.



Wow are you kidding? Worse than Bousquet now?


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## ss20 (Nov 25, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Wow are you kidding? Worse than Bousquet now?



Holy crap he's not kidding...I just went on their instagram....









						Catamount Mountain Resort on Instagram: "Look at this gorgeous Sunday afternoon!"
					

Catamount Mountain Resort shared a post on Instagram: "Look at this gorgeous Sunday afternoon!". Follow their account to see 844 posts.




					www.instagram.com
				




Good God it's literally a quarter of the mountain.


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## RH29 (Nov 25, 2021)

Thanksgiving 2021 Mountain Update
					

Happy Thanksgiving from all of us at Catamount Mountain Resort! Happy Thanksgiving from all of us at Catamount Mountain Resort. As we move towards the start of the 2021/22 ski season, we want to give you an update on the status of many of our improvement projects and tentative completion dates...




					catamountski.com


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## Newpylong (Nov 25, 2021)

The Schaeffer way, widen the sh*t out of everything so you can use fan guns when the trails were fine to begin with.


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## Zand (Nov 25, 2021)

Hopefully they never decide to try that at Berkshire East. Already pissed that they ruined the glades with the huge bike trail birms.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 25, 2021)

Zand said:


> Hopefully they never decide to try that at Berkshire East. Already pissed that they ruined the glades with the huge bike trail birms.


You gotta get on a bike, those trails are incredible!


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## RH29 (Nov 25, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> The Schaeffer way, widen the sh*t out of everything so you can use fan guns when the trails were fine to begin with.


I'm going to explode if I catch a _whiff_ of that at Berkshire East. (I have indy pass, so boycotting is pointless, but I can still send angry emails.) Would be a terrible shame if Competition, War Dance, Minnie Dole, and Big Chief got killed off.

The glades at Berkshire East are still in okay shape. There's  still enough that even with the MTB stuff, they're not totally ruined.


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## skiur (Nov 26, 2021)

Zand said:


> Hopefully they never decide to try that at Berkshire East. Already pissed that they ruined the glades with the huge bike trail birms.



Same shit happened at Killington.  Im all for improving the summer experience, but winter is what pays the bills.


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## RH29 (Nov 26, 2021)

Per a Catamount representative, they have planted new trees + vegetation.


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## urungus (Nov 26, 2021)

RH29 said:


> I'm going to explode if I catch a _whiff_ of that at Berkshire East. (I have indy pass, so boycotting is pointless, but I can still send angry emails.) Would be a terrible shame if Competition, War Dance, Minnie Dole, and Big Chief got killed off.
> 
> The glades at Berkshire East are still in okay shape. There's  still enough that even with the MTB stuff, they're not totally ruined.


Sadly Upper Competition itself fell victim to the widening insanity, check out the no longer existing “Slalom Chute” trail from the 2009-10 Trail Map


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## eatskisleep (Nov 26, 2021)

skiur said:


> Same shit happened at Killington.  Im all for improving the summer experience, but winter is what pays the bills.


For now...


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## Newpylong (Nov 26, 2021)

Winter has and always will "pay the bills." Summer activities (including mountain biking) help keep the lights on and year round employees retained and that's about. They are a great way to utilize the facilities in the other half of the year and to slow the cash burn rate.

Unless the temps go up 20 degrees tomorrow this will remain the case for the foreseeable future.


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## raisingarizona (Nov 26, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Winter has and always will "pay the bills." Summer activities (including mountain biking) help keep the lights on and year round employees retained and that's about. They are a great way to utilize the facilities in the other half of the year and to slow the cash burn rate.
> 
> Unless the temps go up 20 degrees tomorrow this will remain the case for the foreseeable future.


I don’t think temps need to go up 20 degrees to throw a wrench into the regular scheduled winter programs gears. It may not be as obvious in New England but it’s pretty obvious out here that things are a changing and more rapidly then most people want to believe


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## Newpylong (Nov 26, 2021)

I thought it was an obvious exaggeration. Guess not...


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## RH29 (Nov 28, 2021)

New Catamount trail map is out...so instead of the expansion below Lower Sidewinder, they put a tubing park there instead. Wonderful. I got excited when I saw what looked like trail clearing going on last season. 



			https://catamountski.com/sites/default/files/2021-11/catamount_trailmap_FINAL_2022_flt.pdf


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## ss20 (Nov 28, 2021)

RH29 said:


> New Catamount trail map is out...so instead of the expansion below Lower Sidewinder, they put a tubing park there instead. Wonderful. I got excited when I saw what looked like trail clearing going on last season.
> 
> 
> 
> https://catamountski.com/sites/default/files/2021-11/catamount_trailmap_FINAL_2022_flt.pdf



Very lame but that's where the money is.  Looked like a lot of developable terrain over there at a good intermediate/advanced pitch.

Still a better placement than Mohawk's tubing hill where they simply closed the bottom of one of the runs and funneled 3 trails worth of skiers onto a chute that's 20 feet wide.


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## urungus (Dec 11, 2021)

Posted this in the “First” thread but I figured I would repost here.  Berkshire East is hinting they will open next weekend, despite the terrible weather forecast for the coming week.  In meantime you can use your season pass at Bousquet, which opened yesterday


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## crystalmountainskier (Dec 11, 2021)

Towers went up yesterday for the Catamount quad. That has to be a record for latest first steel? Good for them for staying the course.


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## ne_skier (Jan 17, 2022)

Letter from Jon Schaefer concerning lift delays among other issues:








						Catamount Mountain Resort on Instagram: "A letter from Jon Schaefer."
					

Catamount Mountain Resort shared a post on Instagram: "A letter from Jon Schaefer.". Follow their account to see 844 posts.




					www.instagram.com


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## skiur (Jan 17, 2022)

ne_skier said:


> Letter from Jon Schaefer concerning lift delays among other issues:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All I see is login to Instagram which I have no intention of ever doing.


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## ne_skier (Jan 17, 2022)

Trying to see if it’s available somewhere else, give me a min


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## Dickc (Jan 17, 2022)

The letter is posted in full on KZone.

Link: https://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46988


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## Pez (Jan 17, 2022)

I can't believe how crowded it's been at B East this year.  Sunday was insane 15 min lift lines, and when I got thee just the main quad was running.


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## xlr8r (Jan 17, 2022)

Pez said:


> I can't believe how crowded it's been at B East this year.  Sunday was insane 15 min lift lines, and when I got thee just the main quad was running.



I am thinking of heading to Berkshire East Saturday, but am now concerned about the crowds.  How bad were the lines once they got the other chairs running?


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## urungus (Jan 17, 2022)

Unfortunate to hear about the lift troubles at Berkshire East on Sunday, I’ve been there 15 times so far this season and have not noticed a huge increase in crowds.  As long as they are able to resolve the mechanical issues with the backup summit triple, I would not expect crowding to be an issue next Saturday.  Was there this afternoon, a holiday and a powder day, and it was ski on.  I posted a trip report with some photos, not a person to be seen:  https://forums.alpinezone.com/threads/2022-01-17-berkshire-east-powder-day.143546/


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## Pez (Jan 18, 2022)

Still long, all they had were the triple and the quad to the top.  the other quad on exhibition was not runnning.

it was a beautiful day and a holiday.


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## skimagic (Jan 18, 2022)

I was at BE today, the quad acted up around noon so they would let a chair run empty at times.   then it broke down an hour later for 20 minutes or so , then ran at 1/8 speed to unload it while the triple was warmed up.

on a related note, the Killington zone post had a subsequent comment about how catamounts new snowmaking system was installed undersized and now needs major work.  any truth to that from those with snowmaking knowledge?


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## urungus (Jan 18, 2022)

skimagic said:


> I was at BE today, the quad acted up around noon so they would let a chair run empty at times.   then it broke down an hour later for 20 minutes or so , then ran at 1/8 speed to unload it while the triple was warmed up.
> 
> on a related note, the Killington zone post had a subsequent comment about how catamounts new snowmaking system was installed undersized and now needs major work.  any truth to that from those with snowmaking knowledge?


was the new snow still soft today or did it freeze into ice overnight ?


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## Pez (Jan 18, 2022)

skimagic said:


> I was at BE today, the quad acted up around noon so they would let a chair run empty at times.   then it broke down an hour later for 20 minutes or so , then ran at 1/8 speed to unload it while the triple was warmed up.
> 
> on a related note, the Killington zone post had a subsequent comment about how catamounts new snowmaking system was installed undersized and now needs major work.  any truth to that from those with snowmaking knowledge?




ya me too.  I was stuck at the top where the wind rips through the opening in the trees.

overall fun day


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## skimagic (Jan 18, 2022)

urungus said:


> was the new snow still soft today or did it freeze into ice overnight ?


ungroomed froze up to barely pliable  chunks.  the groomed was nice though .  no ice.


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## camberstick (Jan 18, 2022)

We were hoping  to do the beast for the 1st time sunday, maybe not the best time to check it out?


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## skimagic (Jan 18, 2022)

camberstick said:


> We were hoping  to do the beast for the 1st time sunday, maybe not the best time to check it out?


it's supposed to be high 30s tomorrow so they will probably groom more out after that to set the base up for the weekend. About 60% was groomed out today.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 18, 2022)

skimagic said:


> on a related note, the Killington zone post had a subsequent comment about how catamounts new snowmaking system was installed undersized and now needs major work.  any truth to that from those with snowmaking knowledge?


I don't know Catamount in particular but it'd certainly be possible to undersize a pipe and lose pressure and flow upstream, especially if the guys calling the shots weren't familiar with the as-built system, especially if they were trying to rub three nickels together to make two dimes. Likewise on the ball valves - depending on where they were installed (as hydrants, as drains, as system isolation valves) it's varying degrees of bad and cheap. Heck, from the limited information we have they may have put air hydrants on the water main and vice versa. 

Catamount's general ops concept - add low energy towers and modern fan guns to replace their older gear - is sound. The implementation... Maybe they're moving too fast and making mistakes, maybe they're cheaping out, maybe they need a different snowmaking project lead or to listen to their existing one. Can't tell from here, but something's not going 100% rght. Compare Timberline WV for snowmaking overhaul done right and in a hurry.


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## xlr8r (Jan 19, 2022)

Based on the Cams it looks like the Summit Quad is still down.


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## camberstick (Jan 19, 2022)

Hopefully that quad  comes back on line for the weekend or I  might have to switch things up.  Was going to split the weekend at beast and catamount on my  indy pass.


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## Newpylong (Jan 19, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I don't know Catamount in particular but it'd certainly be possible to undersize a pipe and lose pressure and flow upstream, especially if the guys calling the shots weren't familiar with the as-built system, especially if they were trying to rub three nickels together to make two dimes. Likewise on the ball valves - depending on where they were installed (as hydrants, as drains, as system isolation valves) it's varying degrees of bad and cheap. Heck, from the limited information we have they may have put air hydrants on the water main and vice versa.
> 
> Catamount's general ops concept - add low energy towers and modern fan guns to replace their older gear - is sound. The implementation... Maybe they're moving too fast and making mistakes, maybe they're cheaping out, maybe they need a different snowmaking project lead or to listen to their existing one. Can't tell from here, but something's not going 100% rght. Compare Timberline WV for snowmaking overhaul done right and in a hurry.



I posted this to K-Zone. So there are 1.5" standpipes (no drains), a 1.5" to 1" elbow on top, then (1"!) ball valves, then another 1 to 1.5"adapers and the camlock threaded in that. It's just bad anyway you look at it. 

_Too bad they are repeating past mistakes there and spending good money after bad. They had to call in outside help to get the system going again and my friend was one of them. Absolutely disgusting, the worst system he's ever seen. Much of that new pipe they put in is undersized so that they only get like 40 PSI on the NY side at the top so naturally sh*t freezes. They use ball valves for water. Can't make it up.

Instead of cutting 5 new trails all of which received snowmaking they should have been put their house in order first.

Not an overly impressive handling of Catamount so far by the Schaeffers._


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## IceEidolon (Jan 19, 2022)

They put that in new, on purpose?!

I've seen a couple places with really old infrastructure that had 1" standpipes to (very torched) gate or ball valves for water in a few places, but that's all pre low energy - possibly older than fan guns, when Larchmonts with 1" couplers and banded rubber hose was high tech. What the fuck.

Could you tell if it was cheap stupid or ignorant stupid?


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## urungus (Jan 19, 2022)

Sweet corduroy on the Berkshire East Summit Quad offramp this afternoon, a rare chance to send it directly off the top of the lift


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## urungus (Jan 19, 2022)

They finally got the summit Quad running at about 4pm.  I clocked wait time of 4 minutes for summit Triple between 2pm - 4pm, not too bad


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## urungus (Jan 19, 2022)

Chilled out for a bit on Roy’s Way, nobody came by for 10 minutes.  Upper Mohawk remains inexplicably closed, so only way to get there is to take Bear Tracks



Nice sunset today too


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## Newpylong (Jan 19, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> They put that in new, on purpose?!
> 
> I've seen a couple places with really old infrastructure that had 1" standpipes to (very torched) gate or ball valves for water in a few places, but that's all pre low energy - possibly older than fan guns, when Larchmonts with 1" couplers and banded rubber hose was high tech. What the fuck.
> 
> Could you tell if it was cheap stupid or ignorant stupid?



Behold. On new epoxy jacketed pipe. Look at that abomination.

They were trying to run Baby X-2s and K2000s with 40 psi with that. You can't throttle water with a ball valve for those lol.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 20, 2022)

For anyone not in the know, that's almost as bad as a train car manufacturer building a plant and putting in narrow guage rails by accident, or a premium alcohol store buying and renovating a location in a dry county to move to and only discovering it's illegal on opening day.


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## Tin (Jan 20, 2022)

urungus said:


> Chilled out for a bit on Roy’s Way, nobody came by for 10 minutes.  Upper Mohawk remains inexplicably closed, so only way to get there is to take Bear Tracks
> 
> View attachment 52785
> 
> ...


Was pretty fantastic once the natural stuff softened up around 2pm. You could really rip the ungroomed side of Flying Cloud. Jug, Liftline, East Glade, Horace's Grove, and some unmarked woods were pretty great as well. Bumps on Chief are filling in. Lows 40s and able to ski good coverage in a hoodie is a great day.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 21, 2022)

A Message from Jon Schaefer
					

Hi all. Jon Schaefer here. I run Berkshire East and Catamount.




					berkshireeast.com


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## RISkier (Jan 22, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> A Message from Jon Schaefer
> 
> 
> Hi all. Jon Schaefer here. I run Berkshire East and Catamount.
> ...



Haven't been to B'East for several years but always enjoyed it a lot. Don't know what's going on there these days but if I were a Berkshire East or Catamount regular I think this message would give me solace.


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## camberstick (Jan 22, 2022)

They had a rough weekend and owned up to it, refreshing In this era.
1st time  there today and we had a blast. Great fall line skiing , perfect groomers and a cool vibe. The whole family  loved it !We definitely will be back, hopefully to get in those good looking tree lines.


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## Abominable (Jan 24, 2022)

They definitely had a tough start, and the weather didn't help.  Christmas to New Year's was very difficult, little terrain open and weather not great for making snow.  The hardest hit was probably the kids' programs, as they didn't even have the learning area up, so they had 50 kids in various groups trying to get three turns in on the approach to the triple, amidst all the traffic coming down.  Frustrating for kids, parents and coaches alike.

New Year's day (and weekend) they couldn't open.  Our passes are good at Bousquet and we skied there, and the difference in amount and quality of snow was extraordinary.  Kind of saved our vacation in a way, as my kids finally had some room to learn to ski without getting frustrated, and they did amazingly and haven't looked back since.  My son's first solo run from the "top" was Jan 1st, and by MLK weekend he can ski pretty much anything on either mountain and all he talks about are double diamonds.  (I'm bragging a bit, of course).

Despite those growing pains Catamount was skiing better and better by last weekend and it's a great mountain.  I think ownership still has quite a few kinks to work out but I like the direction they're taking and I've always liked the mountain; it's nice to have owners who are into it.

I can't comment at all about the snowmaking issues raised above, but, I've got to think if you are running a couple smaller ski mountains in the Northeast you are very hands on, and it's not like they're inexperienced, so those comments surprise me.


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## IceEidolon (Jan 24, 2022)

Possibly a "fast, cheap, good" problem, but without being in their meetings it's hard to know why. 
Their big moves snowmaking-wise (HKD Impulse plus SMI Super Polecats in wide areas) are probably the best guns for those applications on the market (Best fan, no. Best portable fan, possibly.) and they're spending money on pumps, too. But the execution and trail layout has been shakier.


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## RH29 (Jan 24, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Possibly a "fast, cheap, good" problem, but without being in their meetings it's hard to know why.
> Their big moves snowmaking-wise (HKD Impulse plus SMI Super Polecats in wide areas) are probably the best guns for those applications on the market (Best fan, no. Best portable fan, possibly.) and they're spending money on pumps, too. But the execution and trail layout has been shakier.


I haven't been super impressed, but the positives balance out the negatives. The new base lodge is great, with plenty of space, great aesthetics, and good food. Lifts received a much needed upgrade.

The drawbacks are the snowmaking havoc, some odd changes to the trail map (namely, f-ing up the main face), and killing the relocation of Glade much further into NY in favor of a tubing park (similar to what BEast did in 2002 with the Exhibition lift)


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## Newpylong (Jan 24, 2022)

Between Catamount and Bousquet I'm not sure which mountain looks worse now on the front. Travesties.


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## ss20 (Jan 24, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> Between Catamount and Bousquet I'm not sure which mountain looks worse now on the front. Travesties.



I'm so glad I moved this season.  I would probably shed a tear if I saw Catamount's face in person now.  That old SLI double with the pine trees at the bottom is how Catamount will live-on in my mind.  

One of my earliest ski memories was at a crappy hotel in the Berks, my mother pulling out the Catamount and Butternut trail maps out of her bag, and letting me pick which one I wanted to ski the next day.  I chose Catamount.


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## Abominable (Jan 25, 2022)

You guys have all brought this up a few times and I've been trying to wrack my brain remembering what it used to look like, but I just don't remember well enough skiing there  a few times as a kid in the late 80s / early 90s.  Looking back through photos though, it doesn't seem like things are drastically different across the front, aside from the obvious clearing done to make way for the new lift.  If they plant row of pines on one side of that lift and I don't see where too much has changed.  The runs on the NY side are nice and typically northeast style, maybe you can make an argument they tied to shoehorn one too many runs in there for space considerations, but "ruined" or a "travesty" seems a bit much.

It's actually quite nice to sit in the lodge or out front having a beverage and watching people ski.  Parents can watch their kids race from inside.  Not everything can be the Thunderbolt Trail, and both B East and Catamount retain some nice windy woodsy trails.  Maybe some woods have been lost; I haven't skied Catamount enough when the woods are in play to comment on that, and haven't skied B East in probably five or six years so haven't seen the newer trails in person.

I do agree it would have been awesome to the glade triple run up from where the tubing is, and maintain some more glade areas there, but at the same time I love that the tubing is far removed from the main mountain area.  Anyway I don't mean to be an apologist or "homer" as I kind of see what you're saying, but I don't think it's awful and more skiable acreage is generally a good thing.  And they haven't really altered the feel of the upper mountain too much, aside from adding some legitimately steep terrain.  So I guess I'm withholding my vote until I see how it looks when they're done.


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## Abominable (Jan 25, 2022)




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## Newpylong (Jan 25, 2022)

If clear cutting all of those islands to combine 3 trails into 1 isn't a travesty I guess I don't know what is. That is on top of adding two more football field width trails "Ripper" and "Christopher's Leap" right down the fall line just like Catapult.

Bousquet did the same thing. Instead of just clearing enough to put the new summit lift in they removed every single tree between 3 trails up the middle. I was floored when I saw it. Guess who Bousquet contracts with to advise on Capital and Operational matters? The Schaeffers.

Good to see money out into these areas, but no need to destroy their character.


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## skimagic (Jan 25, 2022)

oh my, that's bad.  Catamount was an ugly mountain to begin with. it always reminded me of a strip mine.  The brightside is they can market it as western type skiing. 

They owners might want to drive over to Butternut to see how to build trails in harmony with the mountain.


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## Newpylong (Jan 25, 2022)

Bousquet before:








Bousquet after:


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## slatham (Jan 25, 2022)

Agree with the ugliness of the clear cutting. But trees grow fast, and a lot of what I see removed looks like it was planted and not "native". But if they leave it as is, especially Catamount, that would be a mistake IMHO.


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## RH29 (Jan 28, 2022)

skimagic said:


> oh my, that's bad.  Catamount was an ugly mountain to begin with. it always reminded me of a strip mine.  The brightside is they can market it as western type skiing.
> 
> They owners might want to drive over to Butternut to see how to build trails in harmony with the mountain.


Not even the Jerry-est of Jerry's would go to Catamount, ski down 400 vertical feet of scratchy/groomed intermediate terrain, and say "That's just like skiing out west!"


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## skef (Feb 13, 2022)

Per webcams, making snow at B-East tonight.


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## urungus (Mar 22, 2022)

Went to Berkshire East on Sunday, here is a shot of the wind turbine blade that snapped off last month


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## urungus (Mar 22, 2022)

And here’s a few entrants in the annual “cardboard classic” homemade sled race that has been going on for 30+ years…


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## urungus (Mar 22, 2022)




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## urungus (Mar 22, 2022)

Ten second movie of the red shoe

View attachment IMG_0090.MOV


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## Abominable (Mar 24, 2022)

Awesome.  We skied there last Thur (St. Pats) and Friday.  Friday was 70 plus and sunny.  Great last day for us.  Would have preferred it to be mid April as opposed to mid march but nice way for my young kids to close the season.


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## urungus (Mar 26, 2022)

“Thin Cover” today at Berkshire East - all these trails were open, good luck to anyone going tomorrow for last day of the season

Entrance to Hemlock:


Hemlock:


War Dance:


bottom of Upper Flying Cloud:


top of Lower Flying Cloud:


Comp:


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## Pez (Mar 26, 2022)

wow glad I kept gong tup to mount snow.  was thinking about b east one more time tomorrow, but think I'll do stuff around the house instead.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 13, 2022)

considering berkshire east via indy pass for saturday. i'm a bit spooked about driving to vt on friday after work or overnight into saturday. driving to berkshire east feels less spooky. its their season opener so any snow that has fallen will be untouched, and the berkshires were the winner of the storm this past sunday with about 10-12". considering it. their web store shows how many indy pass reservations are available, which is nice to know. currently >200.


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## urungus (Dec 13, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> considering berkshire east via indy pass for saturday. i'm a bit spooked about driving to vt on friday after work or overnight into saturday. driving to berkshire east feels less spooky. its their season opener so any snow that has fallen will be untouched, and the berkshires were the winner of the storm this past sunday with about 10-12". considering it. their web store shows how many indy pass reservations are available, which is nice to know. currently >200.


Hey @KustyTheKlown just FYI Berkshire East’s season opener was on Sunday.  I stopped by for a while on my way home from Mount Snow.  Only a single run open - Outback to Deer Run, plus option to branch off onto Lower Comp.  Solid coverage on the open trail, but bare earth elsewhere and they hadn‘t even managed to cover the full width of lower Comp.  They’ve promised expanded terrain for the upcoming weekend, but I would check trail report before heading over.


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 13, 2022)

yea, thanks. i didnt realize they had already opened - their website says 'opening saturday december 17', but i now take that to mean reopening.

what i do know tho, is that its bare ground everywhere that hasnt had snowmaking, and that the berkshires overperformed on sunday mostly after lifts closed - about 10" or more. and that they've been closed and blowing snow since sunday. so if they get another 10" thurs - sat, it wouldnt really matter to me what they decide is open or not since i'll just ski the whole mountain, except for trees, with 20" of snow on trails. rock skis.


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## Smellytele (Dec 13, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yea, thanks. i didnt realize they had already opened - their website says 'opening saturday december 17', but i now take that to mean reopening.
> 
> what i do know tho, is that its bare ground everywhere that hasnt had snowmaking, and that the berkshires overperformed on sunday mostly after lifts closed - about 10" or more. and that they've been closed and blowing snow since sunday. so if they get another 10" thurs - sat, it wouldnt really matter to me what they decide is open or not since i'll just ski the whole mountain, except for trees, with 20" of snow on trails. rock skis.


You might want to check the weather. Rain/snow line…


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## KustyTheKlown (Dec 13, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> You might want to check the weather. Rain/snow line…



Ya, I’m also gonna prob just say fuck it and make it to rutland Friday night. But currently this thing looks to be bullseye on the MA/VT border. But also very low elevation at b.east


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## RH29 (Dec 13, 2022)

Forecast looks very promising for this weekend, especially considering that they already have at least 6-7 inches.
Absolute worst case scenario at this point is 5-6 inches of snow, then rain, then 1-2 inches on the backside.
Best case scenario is two feet of pow (although NoVT would get skunked)

If they can get at least a foot and stay mostly above the snow/rain line, I'll be happy. That should be enough, combined with snowmaking, to open big chunks of terrain.


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## urungus (Dec 13, 2022)

Anyone heard anything lately about Berkshire East’s long-promised new chairlift and terrain expansion, off Mohawk down to River Road ?  Seems like they have been putting most of their energy into Catamount and Bousquet.


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## ne_skier (Dec 15, 2022)

Despite huge changes and delays with regards to the projects at Catamount, those are coming to fruition - no clue what happened with Berkshire East. I'm not even sure they acquired a lift. I originally thought they'd buy and put in the old Green lift at Okemo, no clue where that lift is either.


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## Newpylong (Dec 15, 2022)

It is the Schaeffer's style to switch gears (and attention) at the drop of a hat so no surprise that got put on hold after taking ownership of Catamount.


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## urungus (Dec 15, 2022)

I believe


ne_skier said:


> Despite huge changes and delays with regards to the projects at Catamount, those are coming to fruition - no clue what happened with Berkshire East. I'm not even sure they acquired a lift. I originally thought they'd buy and put in the old Green lift at Okemo, no clue where that lift is either.



I thought they had acquired a chairlift for the Berkshire East expansion and it’s piled up at the edge of the main parking lot ?


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## urungus (Dec 22, 2022)

Berkshire East Facebook Sunday afternoon:
​We'll be closed December 19, 20, 21 to continue snowmaking and grooming operations. This will allow us to expand terrain ahead of the upcoming holiday week to give you the best possible experience.​​We will reopen Thursday, December 22 at 9am​
Reopened today with significantly LESS terrain than on Sunday.  WTF


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