# Clipless pedals - do you pull on the upstroke?



## Nick (Jun 20, 2011)

I normally do, granted not as much force as the downstroke but I do typically pull up as well.


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## o3jeff (Jun 20, 2011)

If I remember to!


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## MR. evil (Jun 20, 2011)

On the Mtb I ride flat pedals. But on the road bike I ride clip less pedals, and it's more of one continuous circular motion than and up & down stroke.


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## bvibert (Jun 20, 2011)

o3jeff said:


> If I remember to!



Same here!


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## marcski (Jun 20, 2011)

Get up for the downstroke,
Everybody get up.

(I love the funk!)

But back on topic...I try and spin....seems to be the most efficient overall...but of course there are times when you have to mash it out...and put power into the red zone...


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## mattchuck2 (Jun 21, 2011)

I don't realize I'm pulling up (actually more like a circular stroke) until I get on a bike with flats and my feet jump off the pedals the first few rotations.


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## riverc0il (Jun 21, 2011)

I try to think spinning a circle rather than up/down. When I first hop on my bike, I try to spin up my low gear using one leg only. It is a pretty jerky motion when you pedal up/down vs smoothing it out into a circular motion.

Of course that all goes out the window as soon as I hit a hill and start mashing like hell. :roll:


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## ts01 (Jun 22, 2011)

A particular obsession here, so a couple of thoughts in response to rivercoil's post in particular



riverc0il said:


> I try to think spinning a circle rather than up/down. ...



Bingo - this is of course the ideal.  But, when it inevitably breaks down, the most helpful tangent (IMHO) is pulling back across the bottom of the stroke.  Or as another sage so eloquently put it, "wipe the poo off the shoe ... "  When I focus on upward movement on one leg, it becomes too much of a piston action with the other leg coming down, and the stroke is choppy.  Pulling across the bottom of the stroke helps the other leg snap across the top - another typically dead part of the stroke.



riverc0il said:


> ... When I first hop on my bike, I try to spin up my low gear using one leg only. It is a pretty jerky motion when you pedal up/down vs smoothing it out into a circular motion.



Very useful exercise on a stationary trainer.  (Best performed with ski videos for distraction.)



riverc0il said:


> Of course that all goes out the window as soon as I hit a hill and start mashing like hell. :roll:



And THAT is the time when pulling up the rear stroke really helps, because upward force on one leg will help the other mash down a bigger gear.  Riding fixed gear, when a hill feels too steep for the gear I'm stuck with, pulling straight up on the rear leg helps the front leg mash down.  Choppy piston action beats falling off the bike.  

YMMV, of course.  This is all very subjective; riding is riding, this is mostly about thinking, not riding.

On the other hand, there are power meters that can objectively show output at different points in the stroke.  The one and only time I got a professional bike fitting, they hooked me up to a computer that measured power output at various points in the stroke and graphed the results in real time on a video monitor; the more even the stroke, the rounder the display.


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## thinnmann (Jun 24, 2011)

Good pedaling is circular.  It is a very complex series of well timed muscle firing and relaxation that yields the most efficient circular pedaling motion.  More mileage gets a person to be more efficient, and one has to think the circle always.

AND, the human hamstring is the most powerful muscle, not the quad.  So, if you are not pulling back from 6 o'clock position, you are wasting the use of the most powerful muscle.

For increasing speed over distance, "mashing" always fails.  Mashing kills your quads and dumps your O2 too quickly.  Focusing on spinning circles with both legs is the way to go.  It does take a lot of focus - you have to get a lot of biomechanical function into your working memory to do it well.  Mileage helps it happen at lower levels of your cognitive functioning.


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## KD7000 (Jun 24, 2011)

I find that when I concentrate on spinning nice circles on the road bike, there's a substantial reward in the mph/ effort equation.  It's still just not a natural feeling for me, though.

On the mountain bike, I really have to think about it and typically only pull up when I'm grinding up a hill.


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## thinnmann (Jun 25, 2011)

KD7000 said:


> I find that when I concentrate on spinning nice circles on the road bike, there's a substantial reward in the mph/ effort equation.  It's still just not a natural feeling for me, though.
> 
> On the mountain bike, I really have to think about it and typically only pull up when I'm grinding up a hill.



MTB: Typically lower seat position, Typically different angle at the hips from more upright position, and typically longer crank arms.  That changes the whole muscle firing pattern.  Two suggestions: try to set up the MTB _exactly _like the road bike, so your body is in the exact same position, and ride it on the road or really easy trails to practice circular pedaling.  The skills transfer will happen over time for more power in the circle when you are riding more technical terrain.


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## KD7000 (Jun 25, 2011)

Yeah, I should try that...  I've adopted a laid-back, low seatpost setup on the mt bike, because I don't generally do epic length trail rides, and really love said layout for the descents & drops.  

It doesn't help much with smooth pedaling, though.


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## Charlie Schuessler (Jun 26, 2011)

The knees go up/down...pedals go round with subtle forward push over the top and subtle back slide on the bottom...consistency is the key…


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## abc (Jun 27, 2011)

Yes, but mostly only when going over obstacles. 

Riding along, I simply spin. But when going over things, I don't just pull up to finish the circle, I pull the whole darn backend of the bike over the log!


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