# Find me a bike



## awf170 (Jun 23, 2008)

FSR and $1,500ish for a max price.  As anyone who rode with me Sunday know, I know absolutely nothing about bikes.  What I do know though is a want a bike that can be hucked and beaten on.  Basically I think my riding style is going to become like my how I ski, so huck anything within reason, and basically just be all around stupid.  I do want something that will climb decently though, so nothing competely DH.  I only weigh a 135 pounds so I really don't need anything that tough.  It doesn't need to be super light either since I'll still have my bike I rode Sunday if I want to do a ton of hill climing and I'm in pretty good shape anyway.  

Basically give me any insight you have and post any awesome deals you find.  I have basically all summer to figure this out and I'm in no rush at all, I just figured I would get some opinions before I started browsing aimlessly.


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## andyzee (Jun 23, 2008)




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## wa-loaf (Jun 23, 2008)

Talk to MrEvil. He seems to be the most dialed in on the latest stuff. From other posts I know he likes http://www.ibexbikes.com/ and it seems you definitely get more for you dough from them. I'll be checking them out when I look for a new bike.


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

awf170 said:


> FSR and $1,500ish for a max price.  .



what do you mean by FSR?


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## awf170 (Jun 24, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> what do you mean by FSR?



Full suspension.  Maybe only Specialized uses the term FSR? Or I just thought it might full suspension and it might be something else? :dunce:


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> what do you mean by FSR?



Obviously, he means *F*ull *S*uspension *R*adicalness....


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Full suspension.  Maybe only Specialized uses the term FSR? Or I just thought it might full suspension and it might be something else? :dunce:



The common wisdom (that I happen to agree with) is that you should ride a Hard tail w/ front suspension for a few years before moving to FS. Starting off on a HT will also make you a much better rider when you eventually move onto a FS.

Also, unless you do get a smoking deal online, $1500 will not get you much of a FS bike.


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

This bike is well under you budget, and a really nice HT. This would be my recommendation. Also, if you want to move up to FS in a season or two you wouldn’t have spent to much money
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/TR-COMP-X7-Details.html


Same as bike above with much better components & suspension. If you want to eventually move up to FS I wouldn’t waste the extra cash on this bike. But if you plan on riding this for more than a couple of seasons spend the extra money and get this one
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/TR-PRO-Details.html


The is a very nice FS rig with a very nice components package. 
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-COMP-X7-Details.html

Same as bike above but with better components and suspension. Also right at your max budget. If you are determined to go FS get this one, the extra money will pay for itself in the long run
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-X9-Details.html



I also just saw an add on MTBR for a used Ibex Atas (same exact bike I have) for $800. The Atlas model is a much beefier bike than the Asta. It is meant to take serious abuse, but is also much heavier. But the Asta is no joke. I know some Down Hill guys in N. California the bough an Asta a couple of years ago just to check it out. They beat the tar out of it on DH style rides. The bike is still going strong.


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> Also, unless you do get a smoking deal online, $1500 will not get you much of a FS bike.



Didn't you pay quite a bit less than that for your bike? The recommended budget on the bike thing just seems to be going up and up. Sure, $1,500 is not top of the line, but is it truly fair to say that it's "not much" of a FS bike?


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

Greg said:


> Didn't you pay quite a bit less than that for your bike? The recommended budget on the bike thing just seems to be going up and up. Sure, $1,500 is not top of the line, but is it truly fair to say that it's "not much" of a FS bike?



Yes my bike was less than that, but I also got a great deal online. At a bike shop, $1500 is the very low end for FS. With something like an Ibex ,or a close out deal online you can get a nice bike for $1500. Even though I only paid $1100 for my bike (on sale from $1300) it would have gone for close to $2000 in a bike shop.


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> Yes my bike was less than that, but I also got a great deal online. At a bike shop, $1500 is the very low end for FS. With something like an Ibex ,or a close out deal online you can get a nice bike for $1500. Even though I only paid $1100 for my bike (on sale from $1300) it would have gone for close to $2000 in a bike shop.



Gotcha. I think I merged your two posts together and thought you meant an Ibex FS at $1,500 wasn't much of a bike. Sorry for the confusion. BTW, that Asta X9 in orange is effin' rad.


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## awf170 (Jun 24, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> The common wisdom (that I happen to agree with) is that you should ride a Hard tail w/ front suspension for a few years before moving to FS. Starting off on a HT will also make you a much better rider when you eventually move onto a FS.



How about a month or so more on my rigid bike?  Not to be arrogant but I think I progress at things like biking a good amount faster than a normal person.  Like I said earlier, my ride on Sunday was my one week anniversary from when I started riding.  Before that they last time I ever mountain biked was in middle school, and even then I only went like 5 times a year and did barely any single track (nothing challenging at all).

Also, what is the reasoning behind riding a HT for a few year before riding a FS?   



Greg said:


> Gotcha. I think I merged your two posts together and thought you meant an Ibex FS at $1,500 wasn't much of a bike. Sorry for the confusion. BTW, that Asta X9 in orange is effin' rad.



Yeah, the orange is quite radical.  I think I might get it for that reason alone.



BTW:  I got another flat today... I think it is time for some new tires.   Also the north side of Lynn woods in retardedly difficult.  The easiest thing I did today was a fair amount harder than the hardest thing we did on Sunday.  I would call today more a hike then a bike since I was walking it about 60% of the time.


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

Greg said:


> that Asta X9 in orange is effin' rad.



Yes it is! 

I almost bought an Asta. I ended up getting the Atlas becuase at the time my lower back was really bothering me and I wanted a more up-right riding position.


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## tjf67 (Jun 24, 2008)

If you know you are going to ride then I would step up and buy the FS off the bat.

This bike
Same as bike above but with better components and suspension. Also right at your max budget. If you are determined to go FS get this one, the extra money will pay for itself in the long run
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-X9-Details.html
Seems like a decent deal.


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Seems like a decent deal.



Perhaps, but again the most important thing is that it's radical looking in orange:






:razz:


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## wa-loaf (Jun 24, 2008)

awf170 said:


> How about a month or so more on my rigid bike?  Not to be arrogant but I think I progress at things like biking a good amount faster than a normal person.  Like I said earlier, my ride on Sunday was my one week anniversary from when I started riding.  Before that they last time I ever mountain biked was in middle school, and even then I only went like 5 times a year and did barely any single track (nothing challenging at all).



If it's that old stump-jumper, it's a little old, but a really sweet bike. Unless the steel is rusting away fix that up and ride it for a bit. Spend the money on the full suspension.


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## tjf67 (Jun 24, 2008)

Greg said:


> Perhaps, but again the most important thing is that it's radical looking in orange:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tru dat.

How much travel are in those shocks do you know.  I hate the metrics.  
I would look for a set up with 5 inches of travel.  

My bike is old and only has three.  The extra two inches make a lot of differance.


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Tru dat.
> 
> How much travel are in those shocks do you know.  I hate the metrics.
> I would look for a set up with 5 inches of travel.
> ...



"Triple-Butted 6069 Aluminum  w/ 4" Travel"


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## bvibert (Jun 24, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Tru dat.
> 
> How much travel are in those shocks do you know.  I hate the metrics.
> I would look for a set up with 5 inches of travel.
> ...



100mm equals about 4 inches.

I think you'd have to go to more of an AM setup (like the Atlas) to get into the 5 inch range


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

bvibert said:


> 100mm equals about 4 inches.
> 
> I think you'd have to go to more of an AM setup (like the Atlas) to get into the 5 inch range



Looks like their Ignition series is 5" too.

Austin's not exactly a heavy guy. I would imagine that makes a difference with him being less likely to bottom out on a bike with less travel, no?


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## tjf67 (Jun 24, 2008)

bvibert said:


> 100mm equals about 4 inches.
> 
> I think you'd have to go to more of an AM setup (like the Atlas) to get into the 5 inch range



Unless you are going to be racing it cc i would sacrifice a little speed for the extra travel.  You will be able take bigger hits and go faster through the rock gardens.


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## bvibert (Jun 24, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Unless you are going to be racing it cc i would sacrifice a little speed for the extra travel.  You will be able take bigger hits and go faster through the rock gardens.



I agree.  I think an AM setup would suit Austin and his craziness better anyway.  He's got enough energy to push that extra weight around.


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## tjf67 (Jun 24, 2008)

I was just looking at the atlas pro.  That bike is bad ass.   I wonder if my girl would notice if I swapped out my bike.   HMMM
The price of that thing is very reasonable for what you are getting.


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## wa-loaf (Jun 24, 2008)

Damn, this is all making want to go get a new bike. :angry:


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> I was just looking at the atlas pro.  That bike is bad ass.   I wonder if my girl would notice if I swapped out my bike.   HMMM
> The price of that thing is very reasonable for what you are getting.



All the Atlas models are sold out, though they still have frames.


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

awf170 said:


> How about a month or so more on my rigid bike?  Not to be arrogant but I think I progress at things like biking a good amount faster than a normal person.  Like I said earlier, my ride on Sunday was my one week anniversary from when I started riding.  Before that they last time I ever mountain biked was in middle school, and even then I only went like 5 times a year and did barely any single track (nothing challenging at all).
> 
> Also, what is the reasoning behind riding a HT for a few year before riding a FS?
> .



Mainly learning on a HT teaches you how to pump because your body is the shock. Knees & elbows need to be bent to traverse roots & clear rock sections to keep the wheels in contact with the terrain. Once you gain the skill of riding a HT keeping up with & passing FS bikes you are a animal. Now you get off the HT & start riding that new FS bike & all the roots N rocks turn flat, the pumping you were doing to clear these obstacles is now acceleration & your now waiting for your friends to catch up. When climbing hills with roots the rear tire stays planted with a FS where the HT bounces over loosing traction forcing you into working harder.

You might be the exception to the rule Austin as you already have some impressive bike skills. But keep a couple things in mind. FS bike are more expensive to buy, but they are also more expensive to maintain. There are a lot more things to break / go wrong with a FS bike. Being a college student you might want to keep that in mind. I also don’t think you really need a 5” AM rig. At your weight a good 4” XC bike should be more than enough.  I would like to hear what Marc has to say


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## bvibert (Jun 24, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> At your weight a good 4” XC bike should be more than enough.  I would like to hear what Marc has to say



This is probably true, what does he weigh, like 100 pounds soaking wet? :lol:


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2008)

bvibert said:


> This is probably true, what does he weigh, like 100 pounds soaking wet? :lol:



Perfect weight for a lady his height.... :lol:

Like I should talk. :roll:


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## tjf67 (Jun 24, 2008)

You might be the exception to the rule Austin as you already have some impressive bike skills. But keep a couple things in mind. FS bike are more expensive to buy, but they are also more expensive to maintain. There are a lot more things to break / go wrong with a FS bike. Being a college student you might want to keep that in mind. I also don’t think you really need a 5” AM rig. At your weight a good 4” XC bike should be more than enough. I would like to hear what Marc has to say



Whats the down side of 5 inches of travel vs 4 inches.   

I do not find the FS to an anymore expensive for upkeep.  If you are tinkerer it will be more expensive.  I beleive if it aint broke dont fix it.  Tinkerers do more harm than good.


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## o3jeff (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't think my body wants to be the shock for the hard tail too much longer since it is warning me with some pain.


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## cbcbd (Jun 24, 2008)

austin, good on you... I think mtb hucking will fit your skiing style. I think you should go FS and not turn back. You know you're going to take those drops, no reason to waste your money on a hardtail if you will be wishing you had one after a week. I'd only go hardtail if you get into dirt jumps/urban riding/etc and that's all you do. If you like hucking and going fast downhill then go FS.

But I think that any mtb, riden hard and long will cost to keep maintained in the long run - parts go (my rear hub just crapped out recently on the mtb and I had to get new cogs for the road bike) and you have to replace some and its not cheap... and then you gotta have the right tools... and bikes have tons of specialized tools - but you can always bug marc for those.

I agree with tjf... I don't think there's that much extra cost to FS... I mean, you have a different frame and rear shock but everything else is about the same to replace if it breaks.


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## eatskisleep (Jun 24, 2008)

You still looking for a bike?

BTW, if not mentioned before (I didn't read everything in this topic) FSR actually stands for "Future Shock Rear," the design is patented by Specialized although other companies do use the design. Basically speaking FSR is supposed to experience less "brake jack" (or none at all) in comparison to other bikes (in particular single pivot bikes or 4 bar linkage bikes).

Austin, I see something like a Big Hit working well for you, something with at least 6 inches of travel IMO if you want to be able to go big like in skiing. If not, go with a hardtail, you can build something really burly that can take a beating, face lift serviced, hit drops, still climb, and even take into the city. After a few years of riding a full suspension for downhill, I decided to go back to hardtail. Why? It helps make you better at picking a line, absorbing everything and anything, and it just makes you a faster rider overall, especially when you make the switch back to a full suspension.


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

Austin,
I think you should give some thought to what kind od riding you are really going to be doing. If you plan is to huck off jumps and large drops you will need a beefier AM / free ride bike. Not only are the frames stronger, but so is everything else. At your weight I wouldn't worry to much about a frame cracking, but you could easily blow a fork, rear shock & trash some wheels really easy if they are not rated for that type of riding. And that mean more $$$$$. If your plan is general trail riding (like we did last weekend) with the occational small drop (4 feet or less) and small jump then any good XC / AM bike will do. 

My advice would be to buy a beater HT that you could trash over the next year and not care too much about. This would give you some time to find out which direction you want to head in with MTB. It would really suck if you spent big money on a bike that couldn't handle what you are going to do with it. It would also suck if you purchased a free ride bike and didn't need it.


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## MR. evil (Jun 24, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> Austin, I see something like a Big Hit working well for you, something with at least 6 inches of travel .




His max budget is $1500. Good luck finding a good 6" trail bike or a Spesh Big Hit anywhere close to that price.


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## eatskisleep (Jun 24, 2008)

Used bikes are the way to go IMO, you can sawp out the new parts you need, like a drivetrain and have a great working bike.

By the way, the Big Hit FSR I has an MSRP of $1,750 and I'm sure you can find leftovers from certain shops in MA and still talk them down in price. I am willing to bet you could get a new Big Hit FSR I for less than $1,500.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=34373


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## awf170 (Jun 24, 2008)

Hmm... got some thinking to do.


One thing I do know though is that I do not want a DH orientated bike.  I love techi uphills, so I want something reasonably light.  Just like hiking to ski I could not stand to lug a wicked heavy bike up a hill.  My guess is that I'll do around 1/3 of my days hucking and dicking around and 2/3rds trying to bike fast, do hard uphills and get a good workout.


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## eatskisleep (Jun 24, 2008)

Then the Big Hit is surely out of question. I'm thinking more of a 6 inch travel light freeride bike... Hmm...


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> You might be the exception to the rule Austin as you already have some impressive bike skills. But keep a couple things in mind. FS bike are more expensive to buy, but they are also more expensive to maintain. There are a lot more things to break / go wrong with a FS bike. Being a college student you might want to keep that in mind. I also don’t think you really need a 5” AM rig. At your weight a good 4” XC bike should be more than enough.  I would like to hear what Marc has to say



This is pretty much what I told Austin after the ride on Sunday.  I don't think Austin would be at any disadvantage going from full ridgid to full suspension, and I think an XC oriented frame in the 4-5" travel range paired with a marathon/endurance oriented front fork in the 95 - 110 mm travel range would work well.  Realistically, without further large expendatures on safety equipment (full face helmet, pads, armour, etc) he's probably not going to be taking 6+ foot hits, and weighing what he does, he's not going to break an XC oriented bike.  My GT is a XC/marathon type frame, and I can take 4-5 foot drops fine (as demonstrated on Sunday) and I weigh 165 lbs.  If you're going a whole lot bigger than that, it's time to start looking at longer travel/beefier frames.



tjf67 said:


> Whats the down side of 5 inches of travel vs 4 inches.
> 
> I do not find the FS to an anymore expensive for upkeep.  If you are tinkerer it will be more expensive.  I beleive if it aint broke dont fix it.  Tinkerers do more harm than good.



The downside of more travel is it is it will tend to climb less efficiently, accelerate less efficiently, and is almost always built into a heavier, beefier frame, unless you're spending mega bucks to get something like the Ellsworth Epiphany.  Also, generally, the longer the travel in the frame, the more needed in the fork to retain a good head tube angle.  That adds yet more weight and cost.

FS certainly has the potential to be more expensive to maintain than hard tail and will almost certainly take more time.  If you're interested in your frame bushings lasting, they should be removed, cleaned and greased at least once a season.  Main pivot bearings can also wear out depending on the frame and the quality and will often require either a specialized tool or a fair amount of improvisation to replace.

If by "tinkerer" you mean someone that works on their own ride, then I can tell you, it's not more expensive if you know what you're doing.  I buy parts as cheap as possible and pay no bike shop labor, and often times trust my own work much more than someone else's.  I like having that piece of mind when I'm trusting my equipment, rather than just trusting someone else did it right and wasn't a fark off.



cbcbd said:


> austin, good on you... I think mtb hucking will fit your skiing style. I think you should go FS and not turn back. You know you're going to take those drops, no reason to waste your money on a hardtail if you will be wishing you had one after a week. I'd only go hardtail if you get into dirt jumps/urban riding/etc and that's all you do. If you like hucking and going fast downhill then go FS.
> 
> But I think that any mtb, riden hard and long will cost to keep maintained in the long run - parts go (my rear hub just crapped out recently on the mtb and I had to get new cogs for the road bike) and you have to replace some and its not cheap... and then you gotta have the right tools... and bikes have tons of specialized tools - but you can always bug marc for those.
> 
> I agree with tjf... I don't think there's that much extra cost to FS... I mean, you have a different frame and rear shock but everything else is about the same to replace if it breaks.



Lol, thanks for volunteering my tools.  But then again, I actually don't mind.  I've amassed quite a collection over the years.  The only things I may be lacking are some specialized bearing pullers or maybe one or two BB wrenches (though I have four different ones I think).



eatskisleep said:


> Used bikes are the way to go IMO, you can sawp out the new parts you need, like a drivetrain and have a great working bike.
> 
> By the way, the Big Hit FSR I has an MSRP of $1,750 and I'm sure you can find leftovers from certain shops in MA and still talk them down in price. I am willing to bet you could get a new Big Hit FSR I for less than $1,500.
> 
> http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=34373



Used bikes are not always the way to go.  Especially FS, it can be a very risky proposition.  People sell frames all the time with worn pivots, worn bushings, poorly maintained, stretched head tube rims, marred BB threads, bent hangers, stripped WB threads, majorly dented down tubes, screwed up cable bosses, etc. etc.

You really want good, detailed pictures or buy "like new" with a return policy regardless.  Of course, there's no substitute for seeing it in person, if that can be done.


So yeah, that's my $0.015.  It would have been the full $0.02 if I had actually recommended a specific bike or deal, but I've probably wasted enough time already...


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> You still looking for a bike?
> 
> BTW, if not mentioned before (I didn't read everything in this topic) FSR actually stands for "Future Shock Rear," the design is patented by Specialized although other companies do use the design. Basically speaking FSR is supposed to experience less "brake jack" (or none at all) in comparison to other bikes (in particular single pivot bikes or 4 bar linkage bikes).



Not only less brake jack, but the design supposedly has less input movement, or "pedal bob."  In other words, it tends not to compress the suspension when you pedal with a lot of force.

It's certainly not the only, and arguably not the most efficient suspension geometry.  Horst 4 bars, Ellsworth's ICT, Santa Cruz's VPP, GT's I-drive... there are lots of good suspension designs, and I wouldn't personally get too hung up on them unless you don't have a rear shock that can be locked out.

That is a major requirement of mine.  As long as I can lock out my rear, I'm pretty much happy.  I'd ride a proven and reliable single pivot design, like the Santa Cruz Heckler, for example, in a heart beat with a lock out capable rear shock over a newer and less tested but claimed more efficient geometry/design.


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## Greg (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: Lockout rear shocks*

Just for information gathering purposes, when do you need to lockout a shock? On a climb? How easy is it to do so?


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2008)

Greg said:


> Just for information gathering purposes, when do you need to lockout a shock? On a climb? How easy is it to do so?



Well, the necessity of a lockout will be argued by everyone, and will depend a lot on how efficient your particular suspension design is.

I find them especially helpful on long climbs and long flat, non technical straights and asphalt when you don't need the absorption and you want all your pedaling input energy to translate into drive power rather than going towards compressing the suspension with every pedals stroke.


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## tjf67 (Jun 25, 2008)

Greg said:


> Just for information gathering purposes, when do you need to lockout a shock? On a climb? How easy is it to do so?



I lock the shock out when I am running the road.  In particular when I am going up hill on the road.

Climbing in the woods with a FS is actually better when it is steep and bumpy. When you pump hard the rear wheel gets sucked under your ass more giving you more traction for the climb.  At least that is whe I experience.


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## MR. evil (Jun 25, 2008)

Marc said:


> Well, the necessity of a lockout will be argued by everyone, and will depend a lot on how efficient your particular suspension design is.
> 
> I find them especially helpful on long climbs and long flat, non technical straights and asphalt when you don't need the absorption and you want all your pedaling input energy to translate into drive power rather than going towards compressing the suspension with every pedals stroke.




I prefer a rear shock with  pedal platform (SPV or ProPedal) over a lockout. I think lockouts are useless. I also prefer good old high single pivot rear suspensions due to the simple nature and I love the way the rear end digs in when climbing. If I had all the cash in the world I would be ruding a tricked out Santa Cruz Heckler. But I also wouldn't say no to a Giant Reighn with the Maestro suspension design


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> I lock the shock out when I am running the road.  In particular when I am going up hill on the road.
> 
> Climbing in the woods with a FS is actually better when it is steep and bumpy. When you pump hard the rear wheel gets sucked under your ass more giving you more traction for the climb.  At least that is whe I experience.



Losing or gaining traction with pedal input depends on the suspension design.  It can go either way depending on the geometry, as Tim touches on below-



MR. evil said:


> I prefer a rear shock with  pedal platform (SPV or ProPedal) over a lockout. I think lockouts are useless. I also prefer good old high single pivot rear suspensions due to the simple nature and I love the way the rear end digs in when climbing. If I had all the cash in the world I would be ruding a tricked out Santa Cruz Heckler. But I also wouldn't say no to a Giant Reighn with the Maestro suspension design



The Heckler is on the short list of potential new frames for me.  Downside is I'd probably need a longer travel heavier fork.  Also, I can tell you from several years of riding up Killington on the gravel work roads, lockout is particularly not useless to me.

If _I_ had all the money in the world, I'd be on an Ellsworth Epiphany (maybe a Moment) or an Ibis Mojo.


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## eatskisleep (Jun 25, 2008)

Santa Crux Bullit... That's my recommendation, but it is most likely out of your price range. I know people who use them on climbs as well as people who use them for downhill. As mentioned by someone else, I too would rather have something with pro-pedal or spv or just a good suspension over lock-out (but of course that fits my riding style).


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## Marc (Jun 25, 2008)

Also, high pivot designs, while they do aid in traction on a climb, also tend to have the opposite than desired effect when pedaling over bumps, as the force the rider exerts on the frame is opposing the force exterted by the bump.  I've heard this called "lockout" or "dead travel" while pedaling.


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## gorgonzola (Jun 25, 2008)

all mountain xammy is your bike - very close to price point, and i bet you could shop around and find a leftover '07 under or at $1500

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/08dakarxam1.html

i have an '07 and it climbs great, '08 should be even better with the dhx 4.0 propedal

also check out a giant trance


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## MR. evil (Jun 25, 2008)

gorgonzola said:


> all mountain xammy is your bike - very close to price point
> 
> http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/08dakarxam1.html
> 
> ...



That bike has a little too much travel IMO to be a good climbing bike. 130mm (5") is the most I would go if you want a bike that will climb good and that bike has 150mm. But this is also a subjective thing. My bike has 130mm in the front and rear and on steep technical climbs I have to really work to keep the front end from wandering. The bigger issues with that bike is the suspension package. There have been alot of complaints online this year about Marzzochi forks, and the Fox DHX air shocks have also been getting a bad rap. I know someone that has blown several DHX5 Air (better than the DHX4) this year alone. But at your weight Austin I doubt you would blow out the rear.But the Maazzochi fork concearns me. The bike is also $700 over your budget


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jun 25, 2008)

andyzee said:


>



haha


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## gorgonzola (Jun 25, 2008)

you may want to check your setup on your fork if you have adj rebound and/or compression. can't really speak about the marz forks but i've heard about the problems with the dhx shock - i'm running the dhx3 and know others as well and haven't heard about any problems first hand, my arse is about 210# these days hitting 2' max drops. btw 5 doesn't mean "better" , same basic shock with more features - 3 is stripped, 4 has propedal, 5 has propedal and lockout


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## Crankfire (Jun 25, 2008)

How tall are you?   I just happen have a couple bikes for sale 

1) 2005 Large Santa Cruz Heckler:  http://www.crankfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6982
Looking to get $700ish.   If it fits you, this bike fits the riding style you are looking for.   Pedals very nice and is a great ride.

2) 2006 Medium Santa Cruz VPFree:  I don't have it posted up for sale yet,  but it is a bad ass bike.   Pedals amazing for what it is, though at the same time, it's a bit hefty and made to jump off things, not climb up things as much - but it gets you there.  I rode all last year on it, its a very fun bike.   Asking $1500, I can get pics and info up if interested.

That's it really.  Good luck!


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## bvibert (Jun 25, 2008)

Crankfire said:


> 1) 2005 Large Santa Cruz Heckler:  http://www.crankfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6982
> Looking to get $700ish.   If it fits you, this bike fits the riding style you are looking for.   Pedals very nice and is a great ride.



There ya go Austin, that might work out well for you.  I'm not sure exactly how tall you are, a Large may be too small for you though...


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## eatskisleep (Jun 25, 2008)

Last time I saw a VP Free I noticed it ran large... Medium was big IMO so maybe that is even something to look into although if you really want to get into climbing that wouldn't be the bike.


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## awf170 (Jun 26, 2008)

bvibert said:


> There ya go Austin, that might work out well for you.  I'm not sure exactly how tall you are, a Large may be too small for you though...



I'm 6'1" with long legs.  How much does that bike weigh?  Also what is the travel, 5 inches?


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## Crankfire (Jun 26, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I'm 6'1" with long legs.  How much does that bike weigh?  Also what is the travel, 5 inches?


Yup 5 inches in the back, and the fork is 5 inches.  It is nicely balanced 

Not sure on the weight, I would guess around 30 pounds though.   I will try to find a scale and see what it really is.   

Sizewise: I am also 6 foot and a smidge with proportionately lengthed legs, it fit me great.   It also has a pretty long stem (120mm) on it right now that I threw on there for a "taller than I" someone else that was going to buy it, but I preferred a much shorter stem on it.   

Been trying to find the geometry specs for it for you with no luck so far....


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## eatskisleep (Jun 26, 2008)

2005 Review

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/3961


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## Marc (Jun 26, 2008)

Crankfire said:


> Yup 5 inches in the back, and the fork is 5 inches.  It is nicely balanced
> 
> Not sure on the weight, I would guess around 30 pounds though.   I will try to find a scale and see what it really is.
> 
> ...



How much do you weigh?  Austin would most likely need a much lighter spring on that rear shock.

Not surprised about the rebound knob breaking off the fork.  My friend's Manitou from the same era had the exact same thing happen.

How are the hubs/wheel bearings?  Were the bearings ever replaced or at least cleaned and greased?  Is the freewheel still working well?  Do you still have the big chain ring?  Was the main pivot in that year bearing or bushing?  How often did you clean and grease the rear shock bushings?  How often did you change the fork oil?  How do the BB bearings feel?  How old is the crankset?  (That's an ISIS splined crank yes?)  Is there any play in the headset?  Do you have extra derailleur hangers?  Was the one that's on there ever bent and then bent back?

Would you be willing to part anything out?  Austin def. wouldn't need a DH crank.  Also are the crank bros. pedals SPD compatible?  He wouldn't want those either if they aren't since he has SPD pedals on his rigid bike.


----------



## Crankfire (Jun 26, 2008)

Whoa... 3rd degree!!!!  Heh, all fair questions though... so here goes:

*How much do you weigh?* 
215ish  

*Not surprised about the rebound knob breaking off the fork.  My friend's Manitou from the same era had the exact same thing happen.*
I called Manitou because this was apparently common and they sent me whole new rebound internals (which were installed), just no knob.  

*How are the hubs/wheel bearings?  Were the bearings ever replaced or at least cleaned and greased?* 
Hubs are Hadley's.   I don't remember ever having any maintenance done on them.  

*Is the freewheel still working well?  *
Yup.  Again, Hadleys 

*Do you still have the big chain ring?  *
I am sure I can scrounge one up.  Though I would really recommend sticking with the bash ring, especially around here and seeing the BB on these Hecklers are not exactly high.

*Was the main pivot in that year bearing or bushing?*
Bushings.  Never had to replace them, kept 'em clean and tight - still solid/no play.

*How often did you clean and grease the rear shock bushings?  *
Did my best to keep 'em clean, tight and running smooth.

*How often did you change the fork oil?  *
This is its second fork actually, so this one only got a little over 1 year of use.  And it was "rebuilt" when I had the rebound job done.

*How do the BB bearings feel?  *
Good.  Not 100% sure, but I think I completely replaced the BB at one point.

*How old is the crankset?  *
2005.  Pretty burly crankset too.  Drivetrain is in moderate shape overall, probably can get another full season out of it.  No guarentees though!!

*Is there any play in the headset?  *
Nope.

*Do you have extra derailleur hangers?  *
Nope.

*Was the one that's on there ever bent and then bent back?*
Bent one the last year i rode it and it was replaced with a shiny new one.  It is straight as an arrow right now!

*Would you be willing to part anything out?  *
Trying not too, but I will consider offers.

*Austin def. wouldn't need a DH crank.  *
Ok.  But they are tough and not too bad in the weight department!?

*Also are the crank bros. pedals SPD compatible?  *
Nope, they are Crank Bros 

For the 2 years I rode it, overall maintenance was pretty much an early season overhaul from my local bike shop and if anything went wrong/felt weird after that I would fix it or get it fixed.   The bike is not perfect, it has been ridden, but overall it is still running strong and has plenty of life left in it.   It is rideable "out of the box" so to speak, but I won't lie, it probably could use some upgrades/work.  Which is why I am selling it for $700.

Phew!


----------



## MR. evil (Jun 26, 2008)

Crankfire said:


> Whoa... 3rd degree!!!!  Heh, all fair questions though... so here goes:
> 
> *How much do you weigh?*
> 215ish
> ...




What is the eye to eye and stroke on the shock?

Austin,
IMO that is a pretty good deal on a sweet bike. Heckers are pretty much the definition of an all around bike, probably the original AM bike even before there was such a thing.


----------



## Crankfire (Jun 26, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> What is the eye to eye and stroke on the shock?


Had to look this one up, but the 5th element on it has a 2 inch stroke, but you can _apparently_ go with a 2.25 stroke.


----------



## MR. evil (Jun 26, 2008)

Crankfire said:


> Had to look this one up, but the 5th element on it has a 2 inch stroke, but you can _apparently_ go with a 2.25 stroke.



what about the eye to eye? I would guess around 7.5"


----------



## Marc (Jun 26, 2008)

Crankfire said:


> Whoa... 3rd degree!!!!  Heh, all fair questions though... so here goes:



Just lookin out for my bud Austin.

Also because I'll likely have to fix any broke stuff for him.


----------



## awf170 (Jun 27, 2008)

This all gibberish to me.  So Marc and Tim, if you were in my shoes would you buy this bike?

BTW: Marc  I'm going to be like 5 minutes away from you house tomorrow morning.  Wanna let me borrow your bike?


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## Marc (Jun 27, 2008)

awf170 said:


> This all gibberish to me.  So Marc and Tim, if you were in my shoes would you buy this bike?
> 
> BTW: Marc  I'm going to be like 5 minutes away from you house tomorrow morning.  Wanna let me borrow your bike?



If I were in your shoes I would just send a bunch of money to me for the hell of it.


----------



## Greg (Jun 27, 2008)

Well, FWIW, Brian, Jeff and I met Nate yesterday and he seems like a real stand-up guy so I wouldn't have any concern from that standpoint.


----------



## bvibert (Jun 27, 2008)

Greg said:


> Well, FWIW, Brian, Jeff and I met Nate yesterday and he seems like a real stand-up guy so I wouldn't have any concern from that standpoint.



Agreed!


----------



## o3jeff (Jun 27, 2008)

bvibert said:


> Agreed!



+2


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## MR. evil (Jun 27, 2008)

awf170 said:


> This all gibberish to me.  So Marc and Tim, if you were in my shoes would you buy this bike?
> 
> BTW: Marc  I'm going to be like 5 minutes away from you house tomorrow morning.  Wanna let me borrow your bike?




Austin,

IMO that is a pretty good deal on what I feel is a great bike. But what I think is a great bike you may not end up liking on the trail where it counts. Like I said before, I love Hecklers. But truth be told you will most likely have to change your riding style to accommodate this bike. I have only ridden with you once, but the few times I was behind you during the ride I noticed that you like to stand and pedal while climbing. Typically the rear end on single pivot bikes bob when riders stand while climbing. For me this is not a big deal because I like to sit. So if you want a bike that you can really hammer away on the climbs this is probably not it. 

I would recommend that you arrange a time you can hook up with Nate and check out the bike first hand (see if Marc can tag along). It would be even better if you and Nate could meet for an easy ride so you could test the bike out on the trails. Nothing too serious, just enough so you can get a feel for the bike and weather or not you like it. I also think you should take some time and visit several bike shops and test out bikes with different suspension designs. Like I said before you may not like the feel of a single pivot (Heckler), but love a four bar (Kona, Transition ……) or DW link (Iron Horse) or Maestro(Giant).


----------



## o3jeff (Jun 27, 2008)

FWIW, Nate lives about 2 miles from Nass so you should be able to schedule a test ride with him pretty easy.


----------



## Marc (Jun 27, 2008)

I agree with Timbo... if there's any way you can ride the bike first, do it, by all means.  Except by way of shooting Nate and then riding the bike, because we all know that's not a good way to make a good first impression.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 27, 2008)

awf170 said:


> This all gibberish to me.  So Marc and Tim, if you were in my shoes would you buy this bike?
> 
> BTW: Marc  I'm going to be like 5 minutes away from you house tomorrow morning.  Wanna let me borrow your bike?




Seeing as how mine name is tim as well I will jump in.  It sounds like a deal to me.  GET it and take the few hundi and set it aside for any repairs.    I dont think you ae going to have any but you never know.  
Tim and Marc know way more than I ever want to know.  What I do know is that you are geting an 1800 dollar bike for 700.  The wieght is in line.  The suspension is up to speed  and it seems well maintained.  You being 135llb are not going to be able to damage it that much.  That is if you  land of the tires.  
Pull trigger and take the extra money and buy aseason pass.


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## Marc (Jun 27, 2008)

Well, still, riding it with a rear shock spring being used by a 200+ lb guy isn't going to be all the comfortable, but at least you can check out all the claims Nate makes about the bike's state of repair.


----------



## MR. evil (Jun 27, 2008)

Marc said:


> Well, still, riding it with a rear shock spring being used by a 200+ lb guy isn't going to be all the comfortable, but at least you can check out all the claims Nate makes about the bike's state of repair.



you will def. need a new spring. But a steel spring will run about $30, a Ti spring similar to what is already on the bike will be $250. But the only reason to get a Ti spring is to save weight.


----------



## Crankfire (Jun 27, 2008)

Marc said:


> I agree with Timbo... if there's any way you can ride the bike first, do it, by all means.  *Except by way of shooting Nate* and then riding the bike, because we all know that's not a good way to make a good first impression.


Whoa...  don't shoot!  

But, yeah, just let me know when you want a test ride.   The spring, yeah, the bike will probably feel rigid to you!   Another thing to think about too is sticking an air shock on there, that will definitely give it more of a stable feeling - especially something like the fox dhx 5 airs - their propedal stuff is amazing.   Of course, overall, being sprung is always more plush, but right now I am riding air on my new (single pivot) bike and it is a world of difference!


----------



## MR. evil (Jun 27, 2008)

Crankfire said:


> Whoa...  don't shoot!
> 
> But, yeah, just let me know when you want a test ride.   The spring, yeah, the bike will probably feel rigid to you!   Another thing to think about too is sticking an air shock on there, that will definitely give it more of a stable feeling - especially something like the fox dhx 5 airs - their propedal stuff is amazing.   Of course, overall, being sprung is always more plush, but right now I am riding air on my new (single pivot) bike and it is a world of difference!



This sounds like a good excuse for another AZ ride.


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## Greg (Jun 27, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> This sounds like a good excuse for another AZ ride.



Wait until Nate gets a load of johnnypoach's bike... :lol:


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## Marc (Jun 27, 2008)

Greg said:


> Wait until Nate gets a load of johnnypoach's bike... :lol:



I'm hardpressed to listen to anyone refer to that metal death contraption as a "bike."


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## awf170 (Jun 29, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> Austin,
> 
> IMO that is a pretty good deal on what I feel is a great bike. But what I think is a great bike you may not end up liking on the trail where it counts. Like I said before, I love Hecklers. But truth be told you will most likely have to change your riding style to accommodate this bike. I have only ridden with you once, but the few times I was behind you during the ride I noticed that you like to stand and pedal while climbing. Typically the rear end on single pivot bikes bob when riders stand while climbing. For me this is not a big deal because I like to sit. So if you want a bike that you can really hammer away on the climbs this is probably not it.
> 
> I would recommend that you arrange a time you can hook up with Nate and check out the bike first hand (see if Marc can tag along). It would be even better if you and Nate could meet for an easy ride so you could test the bike out on the trails. Nothing too serious, just enough so you can get a feel for the bike and weather or not you like it. I also think you should take some time and visit several bike shops and test out bikes with different suspension designs. Like I said before you may not like the feel of a single pivot (Heckler), but love a four bar (Kona, Transition ……) or DW link (Iron Horse) or Maestro(Giant).




I was standing because I had a two speed bike!  If I down shifted I would have been spinning horribly.   But yeah, I do like to stand on short climbs.  But I sit on basically any difficult climbs because it is what I'm used to.  Lynn woods (where I will bike 80% of the time) has so much loose rock that standing would make any steep climb impossible.  Can't I just lock the spring out?

I have developed a riding style?!  This is only my second week riding, I'm pretty sure my style could change completely after about 5 rides.  It's not like I have any technique to began with.  

I always hear people suggesting going to a bike shop, but what do you gain out just riding around a parking lot?  What does that tell you about a bike?  It's just deciding on a pair of skiing by trying them on a groomed green run.  

...I need a new bike soon.  Someone I managed to warp the back rim pretty badly so the brake pads rub pretty horribly or they are so far away that the brake trigger touches the handle bar when I brake.


----------



## MR. evil (Jun 29, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I was standing because I had a two speed bike!  If I down shifted I would have been spinning horribly.   But yeah, I do like to stand on short climbs.  But I sit on basically any difficult climbs because it is what I'm used to.  Lynn woods (where I will bike 80% of the time) has so much loose rock that standing would make any steep climb impossible.  Can't I just lock the spring out?
> 
> I have developed a riding style?!  This is only my second week riding, I'm pretty sure my style could change completely after about 5 rides.  It's not like I have any technique to began with.
> 
> ...



Arrange a time to meet Nate and check out this bike. I doubt that shock has a lock out, I have never seen a coil shock with one. But for the price you are getting that bike you could always get a new rear air shock with a lock out.

or

Get the Ibex Asta. It has a different frame design and will climb much better. Components are about equal to Nates Heckler, but they are new. And with your weight the bike can handle some occasional rough stuff no prob.


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## Marc (Jun 29, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I was standing because I had a two speed bike!  If I down shifted I would have been spinning horribly.   But yeah, I do like to stand on short climbs.  But I sit on basically any difficult climbs because it is what I'm used to.  Lynn woods (where I will bike 80% of the time) has so much loose rock that standing would make any steep climb impossible.  Can't I just lock the spring out?
> 
> I have developed a riding style?!  This is only my second week riding, I'm pretty sure my style could change completely after about 5 rides.  It's not like I have any technique to began with.
> 
> ...



We can true your rim fairly easily.  Have you bought new shifters/levers yet?


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## eatskisleep (Jun 29, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I have developed a riding style?!  This is only my second week riding, I'm pretty sure my style could change completely after about 5 rides.  It's not like I have any technique to began with.



Which is why you should try out more disciplines of biking before you get a bike IMO. Give downhill a try, most people that do it find it somewhat similar to glade skiing, all the trails are in the woods and very rarely do you find stuff out in the open. I see lots of people that ride Lynn on full out DH bikes and love it. Personally I think a hardtail works great there though with a beefy build. 


http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203292&highlight=lynn

It all comes down to what you like, but I really don't think you can tell just what you like after only a few rides. 

BTW if you like climbs, I tryed out a Cannondale Prophet today and it climbed great, I was climing things I never imagine climbable before.


----------



## cbcbd (Jun 29, 2008)

Wow, I've never seen MTB made so complicated as in this thread... let the boy ride


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## awf170 (Jul 1, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> Which is why you should try out more disciplines of biking before you get a bike IMO. Give downhill a try, most people that do it find it somewhat similar to glade skiing, all the trails are in the woods and very rarely do you find stuff out in the open. I see lots of people that ride Lynn on full out DH bikes and love it. Personally I think a hardtail works great there though with a beefy build.
> 
> 
> http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203292&highlight=lynn
> ...




Yeah, I guess I don't know for a fact that I don't want to downhill, but I'm pretty darn sure.  I want to able to climb too, going uphill and suffering is fun for me, regardless of sport.  Just standing around picking lines and jumps then walking your bike back uphill is like the park skiing is of biking.  I mean I do want to do stuff like that occasionally but most the time I'll want to do a lot of climbing with maybe a few drops thrown in.

Let's compare it to my skiing.  I do like to do stupid crap, get air of everything, and ski fast... But that is not even half my days.  To end of this season I toured 29 out of my 31 of my days since mid-march.  Most those days were spent just making nice big turns, skiing pretty in control and not hucking anything.  

So basically I expect my biking to be similar to my skiing.  About half chill good work out days, and half being dumb days.  Another note is that I will be riding by myself most of the time meaning that I really can't be that stupid.


BTW Crankfire guy.  When would be a good day to meet up and try your bike?


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## Marc (Jul 2, 2008)

But you want something that will be fun at Killington, since you're going this year.  Unlike Justin's bike, which will be the exact opposite of fun.


----------



## MR. evil (Jul 2, 2008)

awf170 said:


> So basically I expect my biking to be similar to my skiing.  About half chill good work out days, and half being dumb days.  Another note is that I will be riding by myself most of the time meaning that I really can't be that stupid.
> 
> 
> BTW Crankfire guy.  When would be a good day to meet up and try your bike?



Then IMO the Heckler will be a perfect fit.


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## awf170 (Jul 2, 2008)

Marc said:


> But you want something that will be fun at Killington, since you're going this year.  Unlike Justin's bike, which will be the exact opposite of fun.



Justin bike isn't that bad... I mean it does have one XT component.  

BTW, when are you guys going?


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## bvibert (Jul 2, 2008)

Austin, did you buy the bike yet or what??


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## eatskisleep (Jul 2, 2008)

Austin, going to Attitash until Sunday or Monday, text me if you wanna meet up.


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## awf170 (Jul 10, 2008)

Bump... Nate sold his bike so I'm back looking again.


I'm pretty sold on this bike right now:
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ASTA-EXP-X9-Details.html
I'm just hoping that it might go on sale soon since the '08 models should be coming out in a couple of months.  


Anyone know of any good deals that are going on right now?


I think I just enjoy technical up hills too much to get something over 30 pounds.  I can deal with a rougher ride and general and not being able to take huge drops, but I don't think I could deal with a bike that climbs worse than the bike I have now.  If I ended up getting a bike with about 6 inches of travel and 34ish pounds and it climbed worse than the bike I have now I would just end up getting pissed off and want to go back to my rigid.


----------



## Marc (Jul 10, 2008)

You'd be able to take any drop your balls could handle on a 5" travel bike, being that you only weigh 135 lbs or whatever it is.  Plus you have long limbs... good for shock absorption.

Remember, mountain bike suspension gives you inches of travel... your limbs give you feet of travel.


----------



## o3jeff (Jul 10, 2008)

Were I got my bike from they had a Cannondale Prophet 4( I am almost positive it was a 4) there for $1299. It was Large flat black and I think it has Sram X7 components. If you want I will PM you the dealer.


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## o3jeff (Jul 10, 2008)

Actually this might be it
http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/cusa/model-8VE4.html


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## bvibert (Jul 10, 2008)

Bummer that Nate sold his bike before you got a chance to check it out.


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## Marc (Jul 10, 2008)

o3jeff said:


> Actually this might be it
> http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/cusa/model-8VE4.html



Similar design as the Heckler.  I always thought it was cool the chain doesn't go around the chain stay on those designs.


----------



## o3jeff (Jul 10, 2008)

Marc said:


> I always thought it was cool the chain doesn't go around the chain stay on those designs.



Definitely a lot quieter riding on rocky trails.


----------



## awf170 (Jul 11, 2008)

Ehh???

http://www.rscycle.com/s.nl/it.A/id.25493/.f?sc=7&category=531

Looks good to me.  Hmm, 19" or 21"?


----------



## Marc (Jul 12, 2008)

19", at the most.


----------



## awf170 (Jul 12, 2008)

Marc said:


> 19", at the most.



All right... any opinions on the bike?


----------



## Marc (Jul 12, 2008)

awf170 said:


> All right... any opinions on the bike?



Well, I know that the Dave Weagle suspension design is a very good one.  A lot of people really like it.  It almost has a cult following.  I've heard pretty good things about Iron Horse.  Looks like a good deal to me.

Although a 5" travel bike under 30 lbs really isn't as rare or amazing a thing as they claim, still a good deal.


----------



## eatskisleep (Jul 12, 2008)

My opinion? Based on what you like to ride i.e. lynn, its a great bike. Throw a bashguard on there and you're all set.


----------



## MR. evil (Jul 13, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> My opinion? Based on what you like to ride i.e. lynn, its a great bike. Throw a bashguard on there and you're all set.



Did you order it?


Agreed on the bashguard. Also swap out the middle ring from the 32 tooth that comes on the bike to a 34 or 36 tooth. That will help make up for the loss of the big ring.


----------



## Greg (Jul 13, 2008)

What's the actual benefit of a bashguard? Can't the big ring simply act as one? Or does a true bash guard also protect the inner rings too?


----------



## awf170 (Jul 13, 2008)

All right I'm almost convinced to order this bike, just got to check how much money I actually have left before I pull the trigger.  With the purchase of this bike plus rising gas prices I might not be doing too much lift served skiing this season.


----------



## awf170 (Jul 13, 2008)

Here is another bike that seems like a good deal.

http://ridingbicycles.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=5190

They only have it in an XL, not sure if that would be slightly too big for me.  I do have very long limbs though.


----------



## MR. evil (Jul 13, 2008)

Greg said:


> What's the actual benefit of a bashguard? Can't the big ring simply act as one? Or does a true bash guard also protect the inner rings too?



For one a Bash Guard is allot heavier duty than a chain ring and can take allot more abuse. Plus removing your large ring and replacing it with a Bash guard will give you more clearance for getting over stuff. Some people leave the big ring on and use it as a sacrificial ring. The only problem with that is the large ring will eventually bend / warp and effect you middle ring performance.


----------



## MR. evil (Jul 13, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Here is another bike that seems like a good deal.
> 
> http://ridingbicycles.com/itemdetails.cfm?id=5190
> 
> They only have it in an XL, not sure if that would be slightly too big for me.  I do have very long limbs though.



Go with the Iron hourse. The DW link suspension is a much better design than the specialized Horst Link. Plus the DHX 5 Air rear shock on the Specialized is a complete peice of crap. It has no mid stroke and blows right thru its travel. Plus IMO XL would be too big.


----------



## Marc (Jul 13, 2008)

MR. evil said:


> Go with the Iron hourse. The DW link suspension is a much better design than the specialized Horst Link. Plus the DHX 5 Air rear shock on the Specialized is a complete peice of crap. It has no mid stroke and blows right thru its travel. Plus IMO XL would be too big.



The "IMO," should go for the second sentence too.  The Horst link isn't a Specialized design.  They just got to the patent office first.


----------



## Marc (Jul 13, 2008)

Most of the boutique brands use the Horst design.  Let me know when an Ellsworth, Turner or Ventana owner tells you they'd rather have the DW suspension.

They're both good designs.  If Austin rides like me, he probably couldn't tell much difference between DW and the Horst design.  Most of it comes down to personal preference and I'd bet my paycheck a large number of people couldn't tell the difference in a double blind test.


----------



## MR. evil (Jul 13, 2008)

Marc said:


> Most of the boutique brands use the Horst design.  Let me know when an Ellsworth, Turner or Ventana owner tells you they'd rather have the DW suspension.
> 
> They're both good designs.  If Austin rides like me, he probably couldn't tell much difference between DW and the Horst design.  Most of it comes down to personal preference and I'd bet my paycheck a large number of people couldn't tell the difference in a double blind test.



What are you thoughts on the DHX 5 Air?


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## Marc (Jul 13, 2008)

I don't know much about it.  I'm not really up on the latest generation of rear shocks.  All my experiences with Fox products have been good.  I have a Fox Foat RL on my GT and it's been nothing but good to me.  Easy to adjust, easy to service.  All I do is once a year take out the shock, regrease the bolt bushings, take off the sleeve and clean and regrease the o rings and put it back together.  Takes about an hour.  I'd trust a Fox shock before I'd trust one of the Specialized brand shocks, I know that much.


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## MR. evil (Jul 13, 2008)

Marc said:


> I don't know much about it.  I'm not really up on the latest generation of rear shocks.  All my experiences with Fox products have been good.  I have a Fox Foat RL on my GT and it's been nothing but good to me.  Easy to adjust, easy to service.  All I do is once a year take out the shock, regrease the bolt bushings, take off the sleeve and clean and regrease the o rings and put it back together.  Takes about an hour.  I'd trust a Fox shock before I'd trust one of the Specialized brand shocks, I know that much.



I would agree with you about Fox shocks, with the exception of the DHX 5 Air. They just drooped the ball with that one. Load of people complaining about them online. I guy I know had one that came with his Spech Enduro and it has been nothing but a hassle. The thing just has no mid-stroke.


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## Marc (Jul 13, 2008)

One complaint I have heard about the Fox shocks is that the pro pedal, and the similarly the last generation brain shocks are rough over small stuff since they don't absorb small stuff and basically ride like a hard tail until you hit a bump big enough to activate the shock.  The few people I talk to prefer just to have an efficient suspension geometry and let the shock do it's thing over small stuff, or alternatively, have a manual lockout for those times you really want it stiff.


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## MR. evil (Jul 13, 2008)

Marc said:


> One complaint I have heard about the Fox shocks is that the pro pedal, and the similarly the last generation brain shocks are rough over small stuff since they don't absorb small stuff and basically ride like a hard tail until you hit a bump big enough to activate the shock.  The few people I talk to prefer just to have an efficient suspension geometry and let the shock do it's thing over small stuff, or alternatively, have a manual lockout for those times you really want it stiff.



Well the propedal on the high end Fox stuff has many settings from no platform to extremly stiff. So you can play with it till you find the sweet spot


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## awf170 (Jul 14, 2008)

I got the MKIII... any guesses to how long it takes for me to hurt myself so I am unable to ride it?  I'm not sure that I trust myself on a FS, I'm stupid enough on a rigid that I'm scared is going to fall apart on me at any moment.  

BTW, I think I'm going to convert my current bike to a SS.  I'll use it for getting around college and days I really want to suffer.  At least it will weigh around 20 pounds.


MKIII:


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## wa-loaf (Jul 14, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I got the MKIII... any guesses to how long it takes for me to hurt myself so I am unable to ride it?  I'm not sure that I trust myself on a FS, I'm stupid enough on a rigid that I'm scared is going to fall apart on me at any moment.
> 
> BTW, I think I'm going to convert my current bike to a SS.  I'll use it for getting around college and days I really want to suffer.  At least it will weight around 20 pounds.



Sweet post some picks of the carnage.


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## Greg (Jul 15, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I got the MKIII...
> 
> MKIII:



That is radical! 8) Congrats, Austin. Enjoy it!


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## o3jeff (Jul 15, 2008)

Congrats, make sure you take some video of you hucking it around Lynnwoods.


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## bvibert (Jul 15, 2008)

Sweet looking bike Austin!  It should work well for you.  Congrats on the purchase.  I can't wait to see it in action.


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## eatskisleep (Jul 15, 2008)

Good choice! When is it coming in?


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## awf170 (Jul 15, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> Good choice! When is it coming in?



A week to a week and a half.

Edit: Next Monday.


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## awf170 (Jul 15, 2008)

Any recommendations for a chain guard?  Should I get a chain guide also?  I'm ditching the big ring completely.  Lynn woods is just too rocky to have a big ring, and it is pretty useless on the stuff I ride.


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## cbcbd (Jul 16, 2008)

awf170 said:


> MKIII:


Awesome choice, dude!


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## eatskisleep (Jul 16, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Any recommendations for a chain guard?  Should I get a chain guide also?  I'm ditching the big ring completely.  Lynn woods is just too rocky to have a big ring, and it is pretty useless on the stuff I ride.



If you are running the proper chain tension you shouldn't need a chain guide. I've dropped the chain on my Banshee all of maybe two times and about the same on the Big Hit without running a guide. They are mainly just extra weight and money especially if you want to run a guide and have two chainrings up front. The E13 DRS is an example of it. On the other hand, I think that a bashguard (in place of the outer ring) is a must, they usually don't add too much weight either.


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## awf170 (Jul 16, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> If you are running the proper chain tension you shouldn't need a chain guide. I've dropped the chain on my Banshee all of maybe two times and about the same on the Big Hit without running a guide. They are mainly just extra weight and money especially if you want to run a guide and have two chainrings up front. The E13 DRS is an example of it. On the other hand, I think that a bashguard (in place of the outer ring) is a must, they usually don't add too much weight either.




Yeah, that's what I figured.  Any recommendations for a bashguard or are they all basically the same?


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## Marc (Jul 16, 2008)

You know, I know of not one person that rides with a bash guard.

I don't think they're a must.  As a matter of fact, some of the cross country riding we do, you really want that big ring.  Especially when we get lost and have to ride back on the road.

At Killington, the big ring is also key.  It makes some slightly inclined double track run outs bearable.


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## Greg (Jul 16, 2008)

Marc said:


> You know, I know of not one person that rides with a bash guard.



I know I'm newly reintroduced into MTB so obviously take my opinions with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that it makes sense to leave the big ring on and just sacrifice it as a bash guard. Yeah, the teeth will get screwed up, but at least it's there if you need it. I know some will argue you get more clearance with a bash guard, but really, how much? 1/2"? 3/4"? Seems a bit negligible.


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## awf170 (Jul 16, 2008)

Marc said:


> You know, I know of not one person that rides with a bash guard.
> 
> I don't think they're a must.  As a matter of fact, some of the cross country riding we do, you really want that big ring.  Especially when we get lost and have to ride back on the road.
> 
> At Killington, the big ring is also key.  It makes some slightly inclined double track run outs bearable.



Don't worry, I like to suffer.  Seriously though, I really can't have a big ring in Lynn woods, you need as much clearance as possible on this stuff. 




Greg, won't a chain guard be a lot smoother?  It will slide over stuff instead of getting stuck like a ring.


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## Greg (Jul 16, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Greg, won't a chain guard be a lot smoother?  It will slide over stuff instead of getting stuck like a ring.



Rocks? Yeah. But I've found that the big ring actually grips onto logs and helps pull you over if you happen to hit one too slow.


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## awf170 (Jul 16, 2008)

Greg said:


> Rocks? Yeah. But I've found that the big ring actually grips onto logs and helps pull you over if you happen to hit one too slow.



Make senses.  But 95% of the time I will be hitting rocks, not logs.


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## Greg (Jul 16, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Make senses.  But 95% of the time I will be hitting rocks, not logs.



How about you ride the bike for a bit to determine if you need the bash guard. after all, you just forked over a good amount of dough. If so, then change out the big ring.

Anyway, you must be pumped!


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## Marc (Jul 16, 2008)

Hahaha, he'd have to figure out how to change it, and then realize he doesn't have the tools to do so... :dunce:


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## awf170 (Jul 16, 2008)

Marc said:


> Hahaha, he'd have to figure out how to change it, and then realize he doesn't have the tools to do so... :dunce:



I have plenty of tools.  I just have no idea how to use them. :dunce:  But luckily my dad knows how to work on a bike so I'll be all set.  (He could of fixed up my stumpjumper but he thinks it is a lost cause so he refuses to work on it)


Greg, I'm pretty sure I'll wait a little on the chain guard, but I'm almost positive I'll want it.  I'm just getting antsy.   And yes I'm quite pumped on the new bike.


Out of the 13 people I rode with yesterday only one didn't have a chain guard, and that was because he was on a singlespeed.  Heck I don't think anyone even had a big ring.


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## Marc (Jul 16, 2008)

Clearly you rode with 13 suckbags.


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## eatskisleep (Jul 16, 2008)

Unless you are really into fast XC and road riding, you won't need a big ring, not one person I ride with uses one. Bash guard will help you slide over rocks and logs, chainring will get caught. IMOP you don't need a chainguide (different than just a bashguard). You can get a bashguard for like $25, one of the first things I would put on that bike...
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/sub/1278-Bashguards.aspx


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## Marc (Jul 16, 2008)

eatskisleep said:


> *Unless you are really into fast XC *and road riding, you won't need a big ring, not one person I ride with uses one. Bash guard will help you slide over rocks and logs, chainring will get caught. IMOP you don't need a chainguide (different than just a bashguard). You can get a bashguard for like $25, one of the first things I would put on that bike...
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/sub/1278-Bashguards.aspx



This....


He just might be.  No sense in ditching the chainring and blowing the extra $25, IMO, the returns just aren't there.  He'll want it if he rides at all with nlmasopust.


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## tjf67 (Jul 17, 2008)

Cant he just use the big ring as a bash guard.  I dont really know what you guys are referring to.  I personally like the tooth marks I leave over the logs.  Big rocks I get a little cringe going when I smash over them  I try to go on the lite side when I am going over rocks.  
The big ring does come in handy when you are schleping 10 miles to get to the trails.


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## awf170 (Jul 17, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Cant he just use the big ring as a bash guard.  I dont really know what you guys are referring to.  I personally like the tooth marks I leave over the logs.  Big rocks I get a little cringe going when I smash over them  I try to go on the lite side when I am going over rocks.
> The big ring does come in handy when you are schleping 10 miles to get to the trails.



Yeah log are all right, but like I said earlier, 95% of the time I will be hitting rocks.

I'm still going to wait to get a bash guard, but I'm pretty convinced that I need one.


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## cbcbd (Jul 17, 2008)

I'd get a bashguard... kept my chainring and never use it, other than to crunch over rocks/logs. Its beat to hell now so its just pointless for me to worry about it now.


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## Marc (Jul 17, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Yeah log are all right, but like I said earlier, 95% of the time I will be hitting rocks.
> 
> I'm still going to wait to get a bash guard, but I'm pretty convinced that I need one.



Why does everyone keep hitting shit with their cranks anyway?  Just don't hit shit.  Ride better.


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## bvibert (Jul 17, 2008)

Every time I ride my big ring starts to resemble a bash guard more and more... 

I did use my big ring on my last ride though, so I guess it still functions.


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## cbcbd (Jul 17, 2008)

Marc said:


> Why does everyone keep hitting shit with their cranks anyway?  Just don't hit shit.  Ride better.


sheesh
Its inevitable unless you're born with the ability to bunny hop  >= 1'


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## bvibert (Jul 17, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> sheesh
> Its inevitable unless you're born with the ability to bunny hop  >= 1'



Maybe marc just doesn't ride gnarly enough stuff... :dunce:


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## cbcbd (Jul 17, 2008)

bvibert said:


> Maybe marc just doesn't ride gnarly enough stuff... :dunce:


give em a break...
hey, some of the dogs and housewives on those rail-to-trails can get pretty nasty... and sometimes you can encounter some twigs and small branches littering the trail... you slip on those and you're done.


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## Marc (Jul 17, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> give em a break...
> hey, some of the dogs and housewives on those rail-to-trails can get pretty nasty... and sometimes you can encounter some twigs and small branches littering the trail... you slip on those and you're done.



No way man.  I stick to the paved rec paths.  You think I'd want to get my tires dirty?  F'ckin crazy talk right there.


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## tjf67 (Jul 17, 2008)

Dont hit big rocks.


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## gorgonzola (Jul 17, 2008)

tjf67 said:


> Dont hit big rocks.



don't know about NE but down here in eastern pa that limit your options somewhat


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## MR. evil (Jul 17, 2008)

gorgonzola said:


> don't know about NE but down here in eastern pa that limit your options somewhat



That looks a lot like NE. One of new riding buddies just moved up here from PA. He says the terrain (rocks, roots, ect.) of the two areas is very similar, only that we have much more climbing around here.


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## eatskisleep (Jul 17, 2008)

Yep I've seen plenty of rocky stuff like that. Also Austin even if you only occasionally do some DH, you are bound to encounter rocks and things that you will hit, you aren't going to be able to bunny-hop everything every time. Sure keep the big ring on now, save money and everything, but if you hit something the wrong way, jam the chain too, you might damage more than just the big ring, I know of people who it has happened to before.


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## awf170 (Jul 17, 2008)

Marc said:


> Why does everyone keep hitting shit with their cranks anyway?  Just don't hit shit.  Ride better.



It sounds like somebody wants to come to Lynn Woods this weekend...


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## Marc (Jul 18, 2008)

gorgonzola said:


> don't know about NE but down here in eastern pa that limit your options somewhat



.... If ya can't find at least one line through there that doesn't require bashing your chainrings into a rock... you need to practice more.

I'm not even a very good rider, but I've ridden at a lot of different place around S. NE because I've been riding regularly for a number of years (about 10) and I occasionally hit my big ring, but almost never on rocks and usually not anything that actually bends teeth, mostly they just get worn down.


Maybe I don't ride hard enough.


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## awf170 (Jul 18, 2008)

Yeah, I don't think you really need a bashguard for that terrain.  What I always whack my chainring on are step-ups.  Trying to get up a 1.5- 2ft drop without hitting your chainring is quite a challenge.  Most trails in Lynn Woods have a 1 to 2ft step-up every 100 ft. or so.


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## tjf67 (Jul 18, 2008)

gorgonzola said:


> don't know about NE but down here in eastern pa that limit your options somewhat



I dont see anything in that picture that would warrent a bash ring.  If you are a downhiller I would say yeah it makes sense.   I probably just go to slow so there is not need.  No rocks up here in the ADK's


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## tjf67 (Jul 18, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Yeah, I don't think you really need a bashguard for that terrain.  What I always whack my chainring on are step-ups.  Trying to get up a 1.5- 2ft drop without hitting your chainring is quite a challenge.  Most trails in Lynn Woods have a 1 to 2ft step-up every 100 ft. or so.



Pop a wheelie going into it.  Sometimes you have to pop the wheelie and then do the little bunnie hop.  Speed is your friend.  Hesitation devistation.   When it is to big go around I know what I can get up.  I am not going to break my bike to impress anyone.


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## gorgonzola (Jul 18, 2008)

ayuupp, go for for guys!!! i'll take the bash guard (and a lot of practice), you keep the $25 and the bent big ring - see ya at the bar!


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## cbcbd (Jul 18, 2008)

I've bent my big ring by smashing it on a rock right to the side of the trail... had to pound it back straight after the ride so I could shift into the middle ring and not have the chain get stuck... yeah, I should've gotten a bashguard a while ago and I now I would have a brand new big ring... but alas, stupidity, cheapness, and lazyness got me then.
Exhibit A:







yeah, popping the wheelie and then hopping is the preferred way, but not always do you clear those high obstacles completely, especially when you're first learning.


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## Marc (Jul 18, 2008)

Well, shit, if you weren't using such a piece of crap crank...


What?  What's that you say?  Marc's running a RF Evolve XC too?

Shit.  Never mind.


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## tjf67 (Jul 18, 2008)

cbcbd said:


> I've bent my big ring by smashing it on a rock right to the side of the trail... had to pound it back straight after the ride so I could shift into the middle ring and not have the chain get stuck... yeah, I should've gotten a bashguard a while ago and I now I would have a brand new big ring... but alas, stupidity, cheapness, and lazyness got me then.
> Exhibit A:
> 
> 
> ...



You know you are probably right about the bash ring being a good thing.   I just see a guy getting a new bike and everyone start talking about you got to do this you got to do that and I say just go ride the darn thing.


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## Trekchick (Jul 19, 2008)

Marc said:


> But you want something that will be fun at Killington, since you're going this year.  Unlike Justin's bike, which will be the exact opposite of fun.


In his situation, I'd have rented a couple times to get an idea what's out there.  
Never been to Kton to Ride(ski only) but I hear brutal things about it!



awf170 said:


> I got the MKIII... any guesses to how long it takes for me to hurt myself so I am unable to ride it?  I'm not sure that I trust myself on a FS, I'm stupid enough on a rigid that I'm scared is going to fall apart on me at any moment.
> 
> BTW, I think I'm going to convert my current bike to a SS.  I'll use it for getting around college and days I really want to suffer.  At least it will weigh around 20 pounds.
> 
> ...


Sweeeet!
Like the others, I'll say get a bash guard.  I'll probably take mine off the SS I'm building up, but then I'm trying to get my weight down to under 20. On my FS, I NEED a  bash guard.

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, especially after reading 16 pages, but, what HT do you have?


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## bvibert (Jul 19, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> I may have missed it earlier in the thread, especially after reading 16 pages, but, what HT do you have?



He doesn't have a HT, he has an old rigid Stumpjumper.


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## awf170 (Jul 19, 2008)

bvibert said:


> He doesn't have a HT, he has an old rigid Stumpjumper.



Yeah, and it is teh hotness.  It's a two speed.  Or at least it is now since the rear shifter is completely cooked.

There is no bike better at making you endo since your weight is always so far forward.


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## bvibert (Jul 19, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Yeah, and it is teh hotness.  It's a two speed.  Or at least it is now since the rear shifter is completely cooked.
> 
> There is no bike better at making you endo since your weight is always so far forward.



Don't blame the bike on your lack of skills...


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## Trekchick (Jul 19, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Yeah, and it is teh hotness.  It's a two speed.  Or at least it is now since the rear shifter is completely cooked.
> 
> There is no bike better at making you endo since your weight is always so far forward.



Ummmm, too far forward...............ummmmmmmmmmm, no comment. 

That looks like a great bike to turn into an SS.
The transformation of my attitude to a SS began last night.


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## awf170 (Jul 20, 2008)

Today I bent my big ring so much that I couldn't even shift into my middle ring.  After a little bit of hammering it was good to go.  Yeah, I think I'm going to get a bash guard on my new bike...


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## Marc (Jul 21, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Today I bent my big ring so much that I couldn't even shift into my middle ring.  After a little bit of hammering it was good to go.  Yeah, I think I'm going to get a bash guard on my new bike...



You = Justin Jr.


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## Marc (Jul 21, 2008)

Trekchick said:


> In his situation, I'd have rented a couple times to get an idea what's out there.
> Never been to Kton to Ride(ski only) but I hear brutal things about it!



I've been riding there every year for the past eight years, so I've seen the evolution of trails and bikes there and it's nothing to be especially intimidated about, it's just a lot of fun.  There's really something for everyone there.  And the trail maintenance is stellar.

Anyone can ride there... when I first went I was riding a hard tail with an 80 mm travel XC fork (Marzocchi z.4 flylight air) and I had a blast.  And the first year I went, one of the guys I went with rode a full rigid, before riding a full rigid became trendy.  A Univega Rover.


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## cbcbd (Jul 21, 2008)

awf170 said:


> Today I bent my big ring so much that I couldn't even shift into my middle ring.  After a little bit of hammering it was good to go.  Yeah, I think I'm going to get a bash guard on my new bike...





cbcbd said:


> I've bent my big ring by smashing it on a rock right to the side of the trail... had to pound it back straight after the ride so I could shift into the middle ring and not have the chain get stuck...


whatdidisay


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## Greg (Jul 23, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I got the MKIII... any guesses to how long it takes for me to hurt myself so I am unable to ride it?  I'm not sure that I trust myself on a FS, I'm stupid enough on a rigid that I'm scared is going to fall apart on me at any moment.
> 
> BTW, I think I'm going to convert my current bike to a SS.  I'll use it for getting around college and days I really want to suffer.  At least it will weigh around 20 pounds.
> 
> ...



Well? Where is it? No pics yet?


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## awf170 (Jul 23, 2008)

I didn't have all the tools to put it together plus I don't really trust my building abilities.  One of the guys I ride with is going to finish it for me tomorrow and hopefully if it isn't raining I'm going to take it for a ride.  Hopefully tomorrow's ride will get me nice and comfortable on it so I'll be ready for some stupidity on Friday with Eatskisleep.  So I should have pics by Friday night.


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## eatskisleep (Jul 24, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I didn't have all the tools to put it together plus I don't really trust my building abilities.  One of the guys I ride with is going to finish it for me tomorrow and hopefully if it isn't raining I'm going to take it for a ride.  Hopefully tomorrow's ride will get me nice and comfortable on it so I'll be ready for some stupidity on Friday with Eatskisleep.  So I should have pics by Friday night.



Yay for Friday night pics.


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## Trekchick (Jul 24, 2008)

awf170 said:


> I didn't have all the tools to put it together plus I don't really trust my building abilities.  One of the guys I ride with is going to finish it for me tomorrow and hopefully if it isn't raining I'm going to take it for a ride.  Hopefully tomorrow's ride will get me nice and comfortable on it so I'll be ready for some stupidity on Friday with Eatskisleep.  So I should have pics by Friday night.


I'm running out of popcorn. Shall I make more while I wait?


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## o3jeff (Jul 24, 2008)

Just take a picture of the parts/areas you need to assemble and we will all be more than happy to give you some advice on how to do it.


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## awf170 (Jul 29, 2008)

This should work right?

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CG707C02-Race+Face+Bashring.aspx


Here's a pic of the crank.





BTW:  I just noticed my shock is upsidedown from that pic.  Funky.  Though I would assume it makes absolutely no difference, except making it very annoying to change the return speed.


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## eatskisleep (Jul 29, 2008)

Well it is a 104-4-bolt so it will fit assuming that the middle ring is smaller than 36T. So yeah I'd say it would work fine... I've got the 32T Raceface on the Banshee.


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