# I'm tjf67 and I'm too cool for snow tires



## wa-loaf (Dec 15, 2009)

Discuss


----------



## snoseek (Dec 15, 2009)

I just had a vision of a monte carlo fishtailing down the road. Sweet!


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2009)

I'd be about $1400 richer if I was as cool as him :lol:


----------



## tjf67 (Dec 16, 2009)

If I had a two wheel drive car where I live I would have sno tires.  

I have a awd vehicle and dont feel any need for snow.   My tires are always in good shape going into snow season.  

If you slow down for the conditions on the road there is not a problem.  

If you are a POZER like WaLoaf you better get snows to impress you internet friends.:smash:


----------



## hammer (Dec 16, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> If I had a two wheel drive car where I live I would have sno tires.
> 
> I have a awd vehicle and dont feel any need for snow.   My tires are always in good shape going into snow season.
> 
> ...


AWD with a suitable pair of all-season tires (and sense behind the wheel) isn't a bad combination...but putting on snow tires isn't a bad idea either.

AWD, snow tires, etc. will only do so much...I think that anyone would have to admit that the most important aspect of winter driving is proper technique and caution.


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 16, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> If I had a two wheel drive car where I live I would have sno tires.
> 
> I have a awd vehicle and dont feel any need for snow.   My tires are always in good shape going into snow season.
> 
> ...



Mr Cool Ice


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> If I had a two wheel drive car where I live I would have sno tires.
> 
> I have a awd vehicle and dont feel any need for snow.   My tires are always in good shape going into snow season.
> 
> ...



suit yourself.  I think we've had this conversation before, but my old Audi A6 did not perform as well in the snow as my FWD Hyundai does with snow tires.


----------



## tjf67 (Dec 16, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Mr Cool Ice





WAWA we already saw that.  -1 for repeat post.  :-o


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 16, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> WAWA we already saw that.  -1 for repeat post.  :-o


----------



## HD333 (Dec 16, 2009)

AH the old snow vs. no snow debate. 

My 2 cents.

Snows on a FWD or RWD vehicle are a must. (I have Blizzaks on my Saab) 

Snows on AWD are a good idea but not ncessary as long as you have "good" all seasons (on the wife's XC-90 we have Michelin all seasons and we do just fine, this is our Mt. Car) Definitly not a good idea if you have sport or performace tires and AWD, they will get to hard and be useless.

To each his/her own.  I have friends who cannot belive I switch the tires on my car, one actually said "remember when people used to put snow tires on their cars?" My reply was yeah I just did it last weeknd.

HD


----------



## Sky (Dec 16, 2009)

Snow tires aren't just about tread...at least the ones you pay decent $ for.

They are made of a softer rubber in order to better grip in colder temps...which is why (again with decent snow tires) vendors advise against putting them on too early...and keeping them on too late in the season...because they wear out quickly in warmer temps.

Certainly, adjusting your driving for the conditions (for yourself and of your awareness of others) plays a role.

Putting on stickier tires may just help you avoid that one event where you...or another driver...fail to properly account for the conditions.

Investing in yourself, your family, your property...driving with stickier tires which may diminish your angst about driving in wintery conditions and therefore leave more "head-space" for other concerns as you drive...just seems like the smart thing to do.

Personally...I can't imagine arguing "against" having snow/winter tires, mounted, balanced, aligned.


----------



## St. Bear (Dec 16, 2009)

HD333 said:


> To each his/her own.  I have friends who cannot belive I switch the tires on my car, one actually said "remember when people used to put snow tires on their cars?" My reply was yeah I just did it last weeknd.
> 
> HD



For the average person living near the I-95 corridor, a good pair of all-seasonals is all that is needed.  The further away from 95 you go, the more important snow tires become.

My parents in NH don't have snow tires.  If I didn't go to ski areas in the mountains 10-20 times a winter, I wouldn't own a pair of snow tires.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Cool guys don't use snow tires.... It's that simple...


----------



## BigJay (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Cool guys don't use snow tires.... It's that simple...



Cool guys are often seen in the snow banks on the road to Jay...

I don't know where he lives... but in Qc, snow tires are mandatory from Dec 15th to march 15th... And if you're into skiing on pow days, snow tires are a no brainer! I don't care if you have FWD or AWD, they are just better suited for deep snow.

I have great tires and FWD car. I never had issues getting to the hill in the worst storms i can think of. Normally when it dumps, i'm on the road to the mountains.


----------



## mlctvt (Dec 16, 2009)

Snow tires are a just a tool. 
They improve traction on snow and ice and reduce braking distances, that's all. 
If you don't mind having less traction and you don't mind taking a longer distance to stop then don't buy them. 
For me the choice is clear, buy the best tool for the job.

Kinda like buying the best ski for the type of skiing you're doing. All skis will work but some will just work better for the conditions they're designed for. 
.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

BigJay said:


> And if you're into skiing on pow days, snow tires are a no brainer!




Ding ding ding...   Cant stop me from a po day...

I have all weathers on my VW with awd...  
I am constantly driving on the slopes during winter to drop off drums at the lodge..

We tried it once with front drive on a friends car and it failed... 

I got stuck once last year late in the season when my car just sunk into the slop...


----------



## tjf67 (Dec 16, 2009)

BigJay said:


> Cool guys are often seen in the snow banks on the road to Jay...
> 
> I don't know where he lives... but in Qc, snow tires are mandatory from Dec 15th to march 15th... And if you're into skiing on pow days, snow tires are a no brainer! I don't care if you have FWD or AWD, they are just better suited for deep snow.
> 
> I have great tires and FWD car. I never had issues getting to the hill in the worst storms i can think of. Normally when it dumps, i'm on the road to the mountains.



I travel around the high peaks in NY.  Never missed a pow day.  AT tires work just fine in the snow.    Good thing I dont live in Qc.


----------



## marcski (Dec 16, 2009)

Man, there was a lot of harsh language in this thread? Did anyone get a PM warning regarding that?


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

marcski said:


> Man, there was a lot of harsh language in this thread? Did anyone get a PM warning regarding that?




Let me think about that subjectively... 

DAMN - my tel boots aren't fitting right.... F...K!


----------



## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> Snow tires are a just a tool.
> They improve traction on snow and ice and reduce braking distances, that's all.
> If you don't mind having less traction and you don't mind taking a longer distance to stop then don't buy them.
> For me the choice is clear, buy the best tool for the job.
> ...



+1

I'd add that for the AWD crowd, it really depends on your driving pattern.   AWD with stock tires is useless on black ice.   If you live in mountain country, the stock tires are fine.   If you drive up from the flats where you often see the transition  at interstate highway speeds from wet roads to frozen roads at 32F where black ice occurs, modern friction tires are a huge help.  The same is true for people who drive up the western slope of the Greens.  You see black ice all the time on Route 4 coming up from Mendon.   I'm sure the same thing happens frequently going up the Appalachian Gap to the Mad River Valley.  Getting up the pass is no problem.   Going back down and hitting the black ice microclimate can be a big issue.

Ice isn't all that slippery at really cold temperatures.   It's extremely slippery when there is a water layer on top and that is more prone to happen right around 32F.  The siping cuts on a modern snow tire channel away the water layer.  Not as good as studded tires but most people don't want to listen to the huge road noise of studs on dry pavement all winter.  A good friction tire (Nokian, Blizzak, X-Ice, for example) buys you a huge safety margin.

I have studded Nokians for my Mountaineer.   Since it only ever goes 2 miles from my condo to my parking spot, I haven't put them on the car in the last 2 years.   If I were back doing an every-weekend I-89 drive where I often hit black ice in that 30 mile stretch centered on New London, NH, I'd put the studded Nokians back on.   The Mountaineer truly sucks on black ice with stock tires.   Downhill corners on ice are a real white knuckle adventure in a 5,000+ pound car with a high center of gravity.   Even using that PRND32L thingie on the steering column for speed control, I never quite know if I'm going to slowly drift into a guard rail.  If I touch the brakes, my world ends.   If some knuckle-head in front of me starts doing guard rail pinball, I have no safety margin.

I figure most people arguing against snow tires are just trying to rationalize not spending the money.   I figure it's cheap insurance since snow tires improve my safety margin so much.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Pennywise - pound foolish...


----------



## Riverskier (Dec 16, 2009)

I have fwd with all seasons. I get around ok, but clearly would be much better off with snow tires and would likely make the trek north more often during storms. Simply a matter of being cheap on my part.

However, I have a friend with an awd Audi with decent all season tires and the car is a tank in the snow. We have gone skiing in some ridiculous storms and never had any problem at all. Clearly the car would be even better off with snow tires, but for anyone to suggest that a good awd car needs snow tires to handle well in the snow is ludicrous. I suppose necessity is also largely dictated by the skill of the driver as well, as there are some people I would feel safer in a rwd car with bald tires than others with awd and snows.


----------



## St. Bear (Dec 16, 2009)

Riverskier said:


> I have fwd with all seasons. I get around ok, but clearly would be much better off with snow tires and would likely make the trek north more often during storms. Simply a matter of being cheap on my part.
> 
> However, I have a friend with an awd Audi with decent all season tires and the car is a tank in the snow. We have gone skiing in some ridiculous storms and never had any problem at all. Clearly the car would be even better off with snow tires, but for anyone to suggest that a good awd car needs snow tires to handle well in the snow is ludicrous. I suppose necessity is also largely dictated by the skill of the driver as well, as there are some people I would feel safer in a rwd car with bald tires than others with awd and snows.



In college I drove a FWD Saturn with all season tires, and that was a tank in the snow.  Driving from home in NH to college in Ithaca, NY to Middlebury, VT to see my girlfriend, I drove through more than my fair share of snow and ice storms on I-88.  I only got stuck once, right next to the Middlebury Snow Bowl, and even then I didn't feel bad because the tow truck they sent to get me got stuck and they had to send a wrecker to get the first truck out.

I don't know where I was going with this, I'll just never forget watching the tow truck come get my car, and watching it slide right off the road in front of me.


----------



## BigJay (Dec 16, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> I travel around the high peaks in NY.  Never missed a pow day.  AT tires work just fine in the snow.    Good thing I dont live in Qc.



Ok, you said it, they "work fine".

I normally have to pass people on 242 with plates from NY, MA, NJ, CT who are barely moving up the hill at 30mph with there 4-seasons... Maybe you're a stronger driver then most... but normally the same people you pass in the morning have trouble driving down from the mountain as well... just because they don't have reliable snow tires... Around here, it snows from Nov. to mid-april... Snow tires are a must. I don't think you see much VT or NH plates with 4-seasons... simply cause they know better.

I might be out of line... but this kind of behavior makes me wonder what would happend if you hit someone else because you lost control, it will end up being on your conscience for a while... Anyone want to brag about how drunk they can drive their car "just fine"?


----------



## campgottagopee (Dec 16, 2009)

BigJay said:


> Ok, you said it, they "work fine".
> 
> I normally have to pass people on 242 with plates from NY, MA, NJ, CT who are barely moving up the hill at 30mph with there 4-seasons... Maybe you're a stronger driver then most... but normally the same people you pass in the morning have trouble driving down from the mountain as well... just because they don't have reliable snow tires... Around here, it snows from Nov. to mid-april... Snow tires are a must. I don't think you see much VT or NH plates with 4-seasons... simply cause they know better.
> 
> *I might be out of line... but this kind of behavior makes me wonder what would happend if you hit someone else because you lost control, it will end up being on your conscience for a while... *Anyone want to brag about how drunk they can drive their car "just fine"?



Let me get this straight---if Ihave snows I wont lose control??? Guess I didn't realize it was that simple.


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 16, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Guess I didn't realize it was that simple.



Of course not, but neither is saying you don't need snows or that they aren't helpful.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

BigJay said:


> Anyone want to brag about how drunk they can drive their car "just fine"?



I drive just fine at 0.08.   The Vermont State Police beg to differ.   

The thing I'd quibble with is the fraction of Vermont and New Hamshire car owners with snow tires.   For economic reasons, an awful lot of people make due with their stock tires.   You can get around just fine with stock tires on a vanilla FWD car if you have good snow driving skills.   The roads are plowed, sanded, and salted most of the time.   There might be a few hours during a storm where you'll stay where you are to wait for the plows.   It's only skiers in their powder day frenzy who are out driving in the stuff when it's puking 2" per hour.


----------



## St. Bear (Dec 16, 2009)

Geoff said:


> I drive just fine at 0.08.   The Vermont State Police beg to differ.
> 
> The thing I'd quibble with is the fraction of Vermont and New Hamshire car owners with snow tires.   For economic reasons, an awful lot of people make due with their stock tires.   You can get around just fine with stock tires on a vanilla FWD car if you have good snow driving skills.   The roads are plowed, sanded, and salted most of the time.   There might be a few hours during a storm where you'll stay where you are to wait for the plows.   It's only skiers in their powder day frenzy who are out driving in the stuff when it's puking 2" per hour.



Exactly my point from a few hours ago.  The average person living in a metro region (Concord and below in NH) stays indoors when it snows and doesn't need snow tires, just a good pair of all seasons.


----------



## Riverskier (Dec 16, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Of course not, but neither is saying you don't need snows or that they aren't helpful.



To say snow tires don't help is ridiculous, I will agree with you there. However, you definitely don't need them.


----------



## campgottagopee (Dec 16, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Of course not, but neither is saying you don't need snows or that they aren't helpful.



I know, just pointing out how rediculous that statement was/is. Snows or no snows, doesn't matter. Drivers Ed 101----drive at a speed that is safe for all driving conditions. Snows are helpful and may give piece of mind but aren't a "cure all" for winter driving. I personally drive slow no matter what the road conditions---just not in that big of a hurry to get anywhere and I don't want to spill my beer.


----------



## St. Bear (Dec 16, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I personally drive slow no matter what the road conditions---just not in that big of a hurry to get anywhere and I don't want to spill my beer.



Well played.


----------



## mondeo (Dec 16, 2009)

Geoff said:


> It's only skiers in their powder day frenzy who are out driving in the stuff when it's puking 2" per hour.


If I didn't have summer tires and didn't chase storms, I'd forgo the winters. But I want to  be able to get from my house to Killington in a reasonable amount of time in inclement conditions. Sure, I could just slow down to a snails pace with all seasons, but with snows I can go a decent amount faster just as safely. Make the trip in 4 hours compared to a typical 2.5, instead of 5 hours. The value in snow tires isn't the safety aspect. It's the fact that at the same level of safety, you can still drive a decent pace most of the time, no matter the conditions.


HD333 said:


> Definitly not a good idea if you have sport or performace tires and AWD, they will get to hard and be useless.


One of the things I didn't bring up for my case is that there's no way in hell I'll drive my car with the summers on in snow. It's just pure suicide. Not only is the compound not intended for use below 40°F, but there are no sipes. No sipes means no traction on snow and ice. None. And the summer tires wear out just as fast and cost more than the snows, so there really isn't that much of a cost hit either. Just the cost of the wheels.

I wonder, for those people that defend vigorously their use of all seasons, to the point of calling out those that buy snow tires - how many pairs of skis do you have? After all, you'll still be able to get down the mountain safely on a pair of Pontoons when it's hardpack, you just have to slow down a little compared to GS skis.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

mondeo, how do your summer tires without sipes handle on very wet roads in the summer?  do you have greater instances of hydroplane?  just cuirous


----------



## Riverskier (Dec 16, 2009)

mondeo said:


> If I didn't have summer tires and didn't chase storms, I'd forgo the winters. But I want to  be able to get from my house to Killington in a reasonable amount of time in inclement conditions. Sure, I could just slow down to a snails pace with all seasons, but with snows I can go a decent amount faster just as safely. Make the trip in 4 hours compared to a typical 2.5, instead of 5 hours. The value in snow tires isn't the safety aspect. It's the fact that at the same level of safety, you can still drive a decent pace most of the time, no matter the conditions.
> 
> One of the things I didn't bring up for my case is that there's no way in hell I'll drive my car with the summers on in snow. It's just pure suicide. Not only is the compound not intended for use below 40°F, but there are no sipes. No sipes means no traction on snow and ice. None. And the summer tires wear out just as fast and cost more than the snows, so there really isn't that much of a cost hit either. Just the cost of the wheels.
> 
> I wonder, for those people that defend vigorously their use of all seasons, to the point of calling out those that buy snow tires - how many pairs of skis do you have? After all, you'll still be able to get down the mountain safely on a pair of Pontoons when it's hardpack, you just have to slow down a little compared to GS skis.



Calling out those that buy snow tires is just plain stupid, as they have well documented benefits. However, one important factor here is cost. I drive a fwd car with all seasons and ski on one pair of skis. I would love an awd car with snows and a huge quiver of skis, but I can't afford it.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

St. Bear said:


> Exactly my point from a few hours ago.  The average person living in a metro region (Concord and below in NH) stays indoors when it snows and doesn't need snow tires, just a good pair of all seasons.



But my point was that the average person north of Concord, NH also stays home when it's puking snow.   There aren't an awful lot of high income people in the northern 2/3 of the state.   They have to pick between groceries and snow tires.   You can get by just fine with stock tires if you stay off the road for the worst few hours of a storm.   In rural New Hampshire, nothing is such an all-out rush in the winter that it can't be delayed by a few hours.


----------



## mondeo (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> mondeo, how do your summer tires without sipes handle on very wet roads in the summer?  do you have greater instances of hydroplane?  just cuirous


Great in water, the tread design is tailored for wet weather performance. Unless I'm driving through puddles at 75mph, they don't hydroplane.


----------



## St. Bear (Dec 16, 2009)

Geoff said:


> But my point was that the average person north of Concord, NH also stays home when it's puking snow.   There aren't an awful lot of high income people in the northern 2/3 of the state.   They have to pick between groceries and snow tires.   You can get by just fine with stock tires if you stay off the road for the worst few hours of a storm.   In rural New Hampshire, nothing is such an all-out rush in the winter that it can't be delayed by a few hours.



You're probably right, but I know it can be a while between plows for my parents road outside of Manchester, so I can only imagine what it's like in places north of the Notch.


----------



## WWF-VT (Dec 16, 2009)

Just my two cents on this topic.

We have two AWD cars, a Subaru and an Audi and make the trek every weekend from Boston area to the Mad River Valley.  I have driven both cars in nasty conditions with and without snow tires and now both cars have snow tires on from December thru April.  Much better driving, handling and peace of mind with snow tires compared to all season radials.

A few weeks ago we were out shopping at the shops at Mad River Green.  I made a point to look at cars and did an unscientific analysis of the percentage of cars with snow tires.  My guess is about 80% had snow tires and that included a lot of cars with VT plates.  About a third of the cars with snow tires were also studded.


----------



## mlctvt (Dec 16, 2009)

I should start a new thread-" All season tires suck at everything" which is the truth. 
they are a compromise tire- They don't do anything extremely well but they can handle most conditions, although not to the level I want.

All seasons suck on dry roads compared to summer performance tires and they suck in winter compared to snow tires. If you like sucky tires get all seasons. 

It amazes me that some people will spend $30-40K on a car but then they fit junk tires on it.:roll:


----------



## mlctvt (Dec 16, 2009)

WWF-VT said:


> Just my two cents on this topic.
> 
> We have two AWD cars, a Subaru and an Audi and make the trek every weekend from Boston area to the Mad River Valley.  I have driven both cars in nasty conditions with and without snow tires and now both cars have snow tires on from December thru April.  Much better driving, handling and peace of mind with snow tires compared to all season radials.
> 
> A few weeks ago we were out shopping at the shops at Mad River Green.  I made a point to look at cars and did an unscientific analysis of the percentage of cars with snow tires.  My guess is about 80% had snow tires and that included a lot of cars with VT plates.  About a third of the cars with snow tires were also studded.



+1. same for me and my wife. We both drive Subarus - We run snow tires from Dec-April and extreme performance summer tires April-Nov. The extra cost to do this is minimal and worth every penny for someone in my situation. 
Last year it seemed I was driving up to Vt on many Friday nights in the middle of snow storms or even worse going home in the middle of a snow storm on Sunday afternoon.


----------



## BigJay (Dec 16, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> It amazes me that some people will spend $30-40K on a car but then they fit junk tires on it.:roll:



:smile:


----------



## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

WWF-VT said:


> Just my two cents on this topic.
> 
> We have two AWD cars, a Subaru and an Audi and make the trek every weekend from Boston area to the Mad River Valley.  I have driven both cars in nasty conditions with and without snow tires and now both cars have snow tires on from December thru April.  Much better driving, handling and peace of mind with snow tires compared to all season radials.
> 
> A few weeks ago we were out shopping at the shops at Mad River Green.  I made a point to look at cars and did an unscientific analysis of the percentage of cars with snow tires.  My guess is about 80% had snow tires and that included a lot of cars with VT plates.  About a third of the cars with snow tires were also studded.



MRG is kind of a special case.  A big slice of the people either drive the Roxbury Gap or the Apalachian Gap on a regular basis.   ...or they live off a dirt road.

If you conduct the same survey at a Price Chopper parking lot in Chittenden county, you'll see far less snow tires.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

mlctvt said:


> It amazes me that some people will spend $30-40K on a car but then they fit junk tires on it.:roll:



It amazes me that people spend that kind of cabbage on a vehicle period.  Doubt I'll ever spend over 25K in todays dollars no matter how my career progresses / income increases.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> It amazes me that people spend that kind of cabbage on a vehicle period.  Doubt I'll ever spend over 25K in todays dollars no matter how my career progresses / income increases.



I paid way over 25k for my car....

Why is that so amazing?   I deserve it...  I work hard, make good $  and it's nice to have a nice car...    

Am I that bourgeoisie to you?


----------



## tjf67 (Dec 16, 2009)

BigJay said:


> Ok, you said it, they "work fine".
> 
> I normally have to pass people on 242 with plates from NY, MA, NJ, CT who are barely moving up the hill at 30mph with there 4-seasons... Maybe you're a stronger driver then most... but normally the same people you pass in the morning have trouble driving down from the mountain as well... just because they don't have reliable snow tires... Around here, it snows from Nov. to mid-april... Snow tires are a must. I don't think you see much VT or NH plates with 4-seasons... simply cause they know better.
> 
> I might be out of line... but this kind of behavior makes me wonder what would happend if you hit someone else because you lost control, it will end up being on your conscience for a while... Anyone want to brag about how drunk they can drive their car "just fine"?



Snow tires are a must.   Were you smoking dope when you wrote this?


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> I paid way over 25k for my car....
> 
> Why is that so amazing?   I deserve it...  I work hard, make good $  and it's nice to have a nice car...
> 
> Am I that bourgeoisie to you?



Depends on your priorities. I used to own BMW's. First a 325i then a 740i then a X5.  I absolutely loved the X5.  I was going to another but 80K was what got me. Now the price was not the problem, I just decided that I would like to the money to better use then putting 25K miles on a year and have be worth not much at all.  The money is better earning more money for kid's college, second house(log it will be) and retirement.  Now I have a FJ Cruiser with everything and more for only 33K.  It all depends on prioriies like I said.


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Snow tires are a must.   Were you smoking dope when you wrote this?



Never used snows on any car and never had a problem and I have lived in snow country all my life.  I have even driven a motorcycle in the snow in Buffalo. Not something I would do again.  It is the people behind the wheel that are the problem.  Good all seasons and paying attention goes a long way.  If you want snows then good for you if you feel better on them.  Remember nothings works on ice only if you have studs which are illegal in a lot of places.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Puck it said:


> Depends on your priorities. I used to own BMW's. First a 325i then a 740i then a X5.  I absolutely loved the X5.  I was going to another but 80K was what got me. Now the price was not the problem, I just decided that I would like to the money to better use then putting 25K miles on a year and have be worth not much at all.  The money is better earning more money for kid's college, second house(log it will be) and retirement.  Now I have a FJ Cruiser with everything and more for only 33K.  It all depends on prioriies like I said.




Of course it does...

If your poor and have to make a choice between a nice car and food... Your going to take the food...

nobody questioned that..


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 16, 2009)

Cool, this has turned into a pretty good thread. And I only started it to jerk tj-whatevers chain.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> I paid way over 25k for my car....
> 
> Why is that so amazing?   I deserve it...  I work hard, make good $  and it's nice to have a nice car...
> 
> Am I that bourgeoisie to you?




do what you want.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> do what you want.



haha... I expected that...


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> haha... I expected that...



you're so smart and you know it.  good for you d


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> you're so smart and you know it.  good for you d



Right.. 

Good one...


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2009)

sorry if you're hungry bub, but I done given up feeding you long ago.  enjoy your car and seek out others for conversation as I ain't interested.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> sorry if you're hungry bub, but I done given up feeding you long ago.  enjoy your car and seek out others for conversation as I ain't interested.



I guess we're just destined to never converse..  

i was really just trying to understand where you were coming from..  You made a bold statement...  You have to admit...  Or not..


----------



## snoseek (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> bourgeoisie



I must be a product of New Hampshire public school because I have know idea what this word means. The spelling is close to one of my favorite french dishes though!


----------



## snoseek (Dec 16, 2009)

http://www.thegutsygourmet.net/beef-stew.gif


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Of course it does...
> 
> If your poor and have to make a choice between a nice car and food... Your going to take the food...
> 
> nobody questioned that..


  You are missing my point.  Even if you have the money, it depends on what is important.  Mine has changed and osome others will too.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

snoseek said:


> I must be a product of New Hampshire public school because I have know idea what this word means. The spelling is close to one of my favorite french dishes though!



bourgeoisie means the people with $... Upper middle class.. Not born into it - not aristocratic


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> bourgeoisie means the people with $... Upper middle class.. Not born into it - not aristocratic


 
No soup for you!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Geoff (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> bourgeoisie means the people with $... Upper middle class.. Not born into it - not aristocratic



bourgeois as a social classification is the French equivalent of middle class.   It originally meant you lived in a city or town rather than on a farm.  It usually has connotations that you are materialistic, uncultured, and mediocre.


----------



## dmc (Dec 16, 2009)

Geoff said:


> bourgeois as a social classification is the French equivalent of middle class.   It originally meant you lived in a city or town rather than on a farm.  It usually has connotations that you are materialistic, uncultured, and mediocre.



Right..  The people who got $ from working not from aristocracy...


----------



## Puck it (Dec 16, 2009)

dmc said:


> Right.. The people who got $ from working not from aristocracy...


 

The people that want to keep their hard earned money.   I digress.  Carry on!!!:flag::flag::flag:


----------



## tjf67 (Dec 17, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> I know, just pointing out how rediculous that statement was/is. Snows or no snows, doesn't matter. Drivers Ed 101----drive at a speed that is safe for all driving conditions. Snows are helpful and may give piece of mind but aren't a "cure all" for winter driving. I personally drive slow no matter what the road conditions---just not in that big of a hurry to get anywhere and I don't want to spill my beer.




HAHA Campi you have to get ahold of us when you head up this way.  I have a feeling we will do a lo of laughing, and drinking, and skiing, and...


----------



## campgottagopee (Dec 17, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> HAHA Campi you have to get ahold of us when you head up this way.  I have a feeling we will do a lo of laughing, and drinking, and skiing, and...



Bet your ass TJ---got meet up with you and your crew for sure


----------



## tjf67 (Dec 18, 2009)

campgottagopee said:


> Bet your ass TJ---got meet up with you and your crew for sure



Hey not to put you in th emiddle of anything but being in the industry I have a question for you.   Is it to late to put the winter air in my tires?


----------



## campgottagopee (Dec 18, 2009)

tjf67 said:


> Hey not to put you in th emiddle of anything but being in the industry I have a question for you.   Is it to late to put the winter air in my tires?



You should be fine, I would caution however that you check the ashytray o-ring prior to rotating the summer air with the winter air. I've seen people NOT check this and BAM, muffler bearing goes. Not pretty and VERY expensive to replace. Good luck.


----------



## andyzee (Dec 18, 2009)

Ah the good old days, have a blizzard, no school, no work, pile 3-4 buddies into the car with bald tires and drive it down the highway sideways as far as you can. Drive into dept store parking lot and see how much you can spin out. Get stuck, not a problem, everyone pile out push and go. Yeah, those were the days.


----------



## 2knees (Dec 18, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Ah the good old days, have a blizzard, no school, no work, pile 3-4 buddies into the car with bald tires and drive it down the highway sideways as far as you can. Drive into dept store parking lot and see how much you can spin out. Get stuck, not a problem, everyone pile out push and go. Yeah, those were the days.



yeah but you're polish so stupidity is part of your ancestory.....



and i'm polish too so i can say these things.


----------



## andyzee (Dec 18, 2009)

2knees said:


> yeah but you're polish so stupidity is part of your ancestory.....
> 
> 
> 
> and i'm polish too so i can say these things.



Had nothing to do with being Polish, had more to do with being young and foolish. The good ole days. 

By the way, what is stupid is "yeah but you're polish so stupidity is part of your ancestory.." If you had any idea of what you were talking about, you would realize this.


----------



## hammer (Dec 18, 2009)

andyzee said:


> Ah the good old days, have a blizzard, no school, no work, pile 3-4 buddies into the car with bald tires and drive it down the highway sideways as far as you can. Drive into dept store parking lot and see how much you can spin out. Get stuck, not a problem, everyone pile out push and go. Yeah, those were the days.


Growing up on the Jersey Shore we didn't get much snow...so just substitute driving through the woods or on unpaved back streets and that sums up my good old days.  Also didn't have or wear seat belts.

Worst part was when I had a friend who drove a furniture delivery truck and decided to take it for a dirt/mud road run...we had to use a bunch of furniture pads to get out of a stuck spot.  Surprising thing is that he didn't get fired...

Good times.


----------

