# Most deceptive snow reports



## skiberg (Mar 3, 2020)

I have to put Cannon at top of the list. If I hear them describe conditions as epic or legendary again I’m going to loose it. Every time they get 4” of snow they report like it’s a legit powder day. They remind me of Killington in the 90’s. I actually think reports have gotten a lot better and more accurate across the industry perhaps because of social media and people making their own instant reports. Cannon seems like an outlier. 


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 3, 2020)

Camelback


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 3, 2020)

haha man, I said this a couple weeks ago after my trip to Cannon

"Powder/Packed Powder" "amazing conditions"

It was the iciest day of skiing I've done this season with windblown drifts and screwy moguls at best. Woods were fine. They were full of it and I don't trust their snow reports any more.

Yes I agree almost everywhere else I ski has a different definition of "packed powder" than Cannon does. Pico and Killington also like to call hard pack "packed powder".

I ought to invent a snow density meter to be adopted as the industry standard to determine how "packed" the "powder" really is. My meter will be set to use cocaine terms like "fish scale, re-rock, raw" to further differentiate grades of hard pack through boilerplate.


Only super legit ski areas like Magic and Mad River Glen, Jay Peak included in this case, will warn you if conditions are bullshit you might want to stay home, or go into more detail about the variable conditions.

Stowe is vague AF, places like that you basically have to know the weather yourself. At least most mountains I can tell when you start using superlative terminology that the skiing might actually be really good.


What Berkshire East calls "machine groomed / granular" conditions for 90% of their season is better than the "packed powder" at a lot of these bigger places.


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## kingslug (Mar 3, 2020)

Well, I guess if you pack Powder enough..it turns to ice. Its just an over used term that we all know what it really means. I get asked all the times how conditions are..whats the weather..as if cell phones and the internet do not exist. I guess some people can't figure out that if it rained the night before and went down to 10 degrees what the result will be...


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Well, I guess if you pack Powder enough..it turns to ice.



There's names you can use to describe those conditions, including "hard pack", "variable" "frozen granular" and you can even get more creative to describe even worse conditions.

Continuing to call hard pack (or worse) "packed powder" is plain deception. Nobody should be more aware of a ski areas's snow conditions than whoever writes the conditions report. I do my due diligence, but why do they even have a job?

Packed powder by definition means it hasn't been through a melt/freeze cycle. It can be groomed and still called PP as long as it remains in it's original (packed) condition.

"Powder" is not an interchangeable term for any form of frozen precipitation.

totally understandable why they do this... nobody is getting their ass out of the door at 5:00am to ski "boilerplate ice, death cookies, and crust in the woods"


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 3, 2020)

Right I getup at 6:30 for 7:30 First tracks to ski that kind of shit in PA all winter! :lol:


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## Harvey (Mar 3, 2020)

bdfreetuna said:


> "...nobody is getting their ass out of the door at 5:00am to ski "boilerplate ice, death cookies, and crust in the woods"



:-D


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## abc (Mar 3, 2020)

Deceptive snow report? At least they can claim subjective condition, or even vagueness of the language. How about lift status? A lift is either running or not. Black and white. How can you fudge lift status? When the web site claims n-1/n lifts are running, why am I seeing TWO lifts NOT running???

Vail is most blatant when it comes to that "lift counting" game. I was at Whistler for nearly 2 weeks. There's not a single day that all lifts were open. Far from it. Many days only 1/2 or 2/3 of the lifts were running. But you wouldn't know that looking at their web sites. Almost all of the days I was there, ice and wind and all that, all but 1 or 2 of the lifts were "running"! 

Fast forward to Sunapee, another Vail mountain. All lifts running? But why do I see TWO of the lifts not running? OK, it's a Monday, the lifts were really not needed. Fine by me. But don't say it's running then!


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## bdfreetuna (Mar 3, 2020)

Whatever, these game players are going to lose customers when people ski other places and enjoy it more.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 3, 2020)

"Packed powder" is the "pre-owned car" of the ski industry.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 3, 2020)

skiberg said:


> I have to put Cannon at top of the list. If I hear them describe conditions as epic or legendary again I’m going to loose it. Every time they get 4” of snow they report like it’s a legit powder day. They remind me of Killington in the 90’s. I actually think reports have gotten a lot better and more accurate across the industry perhaps because of social media and people making their own instant reports. Cannon seems like an outlier.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



If I had a $1.00 for every complaint I've heard about snow reports I'd be able to retire.


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## abc (Mar 3, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> If I had a $1.00 for every complaint I've heard about snow reports I'd be able to retire.


But if you had offered a more accurate snow report for every inaccurate ones, and charged a penny from every skier, you would have retired rich!


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## kingslug (Mar 4, 2020)

Just think of all the terms used to describe everything that is for sale in this world. This is no different.


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## bizarrefaith (Mar 6, 2020)

I definitely chuckled that OP was about Cannon -- their mountain reports are definitely bad. 4" overnight and it'll say "STRAP ON THE FAT BOARDS"


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## kingslug (Mar 6, 2020)

Fat Boards are ...fun ...on ice...


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## bizarrefaith (Mar 6, 2020)

I don't think I've seen the word "ice" appear in the mountain report once this year.


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## kingslug (Mar 6, 2020)

Frozen granular


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## Smellytele (Mar 7, 2020)

Here is a good one from cannon. Guess they want people to show up at 10...
Also a reminder, it’s Daylight Savings Time tonight so don’t forget to set your clocks back by one hour before you go to bed!


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## ScottySkis (Mar 8, 2020)

Hunter in 1990s when I was a kid report would be pretty dis honest
I guess then it was all ski areas where terrible liers together..
Although there ski phone number was awesome 1800-for-snow


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## sledride (Mar 8, 2020)

Plattekill reporting “awesome conditions” again today.  I guess it must get pretty bad because yesterday was awful by my standards.  Maybe this is awesome for them but not me.


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## granite (Mar 8, 2020)

They are not as bad a local TV news weather reports.  The will make it sound like you'll die if you going skiing from low temperatures and, more and more, wind chill factors.


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## medfordmike (Mar 8, 2020)

This was at Heavenly. They did open up almost everything later. 30 minutes before half the lifts showed open and several close, some on hold the stat was still 26/28.  It was windy.  The day before most of the lifts around Tamarack where closed all day for wind but the percentage of terrain and lifts never changed through out the day.  They did update the lift list but as well all know Vail favors % open, acreage etc over any kind of descriptive text.


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## zyk (Mar 8, 2020)

sledride said:


> Plattekill reporting “awesome conditions” again today.  I guess it must get pretty bad because yesterday was awful by my standards.  Maybe this is awesome for them but not me.


 
Years back when I skied Plattekill a lot I quickly realized "natural cover" or nc on the report meant dirt, grass, and rocks.  It was fine for me as I knew what to expect.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 8, 2020)

Packed Powder at Sunapee today!

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## skiberg (Mar 8, 2020)

It’s not just the deception of Cannon, it’s that insane exuberance about a couple inches of snow. Skiing Cannon is like eating a McDonalds hamburger your whole life. Then the first time you have a burger from Wendy’s you think it’s epic. 


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## Smellytele (Mar 8, 2020)

skiberg said:


> It’s not just the deception of Cannon, it’s that insane exuberance about a couple inches of snow. Skiing Cannon is like eating a McDonalds hamburger your whole life. Then the first time you have a burger from Wendy’s you think it’s epic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I have never been one to listen to what any ski area says or what any politician says. Cannon conditions are not any different then most NE ski area. They can be great or they can suck. The terrain and vibe is what draws we there.  Like with any mountain the more you ski you find the special places and know where to ski and where not to in certain conditions.


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## JimG. (Mar 10, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Packed Powder at Sunapee today!View attachment 26532
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



lol blinding!


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## Cornhead (Mar 11, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> Packed Powder at Sunapee today!View attachment 26532
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


Packed pretty tightly, I'd say.

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## tumbler (Mar 11, 2020)

i have to say that since this thread started i have noticed a difference on SB's snow report more accurately describing conditions and setting expectations.


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## skibum636 (Mar 12, 2020)

My favorite is wet packed powder, wpp.


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## ne_skier (Nov 23, 2020)

As someone who skied Camelback PA for 4 years, their snow reports are just downright wrong. Their high trail count is only thanks to tiny little connector trails as well as splitting runs in half, top and bottom. As for lifts, they go into as far detail as to put what times the lifts will open and close (they do so to target peak times), and some of the lifts that are scheduled just don't open, and you're stuck waiting in line even though there's more than enough lifts on the mountain to accommodate the high number of people.


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## Zermatt (Nov 23, 2020)

Apparently Killington is up to 27" of snow this season already


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## skiur (Nov 24, 2020)

billo said:


> Apparently Killington is up to 27" of snow this season already



Nothing deceptive about that.  Killingtons elevation gives them a lot more snow than other places, especially early season.  I would say that 20 of those inches have melted though.


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## drjeff (Nov 24, 2020)

I'd like to say that Vail Resorts are quite deceptive, however that would mean that this year, now roughly 24 hrs until the 1st chairs of the season spin at Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow and Hunter, that they would of actually updated their snow report section of their webpage with even something as simple as "planned opening on Wednesday November 25th"


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## djd66 (Nov 24, 2020)

In the past (pre Altera) Sugarbush has consistently under reported snowfall.  Not sure why or if they got less snow than fell at my place (1700’) and MRG,... but it always seems to be less snow than actually fell.


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## Kevin Schultz (Nov 24, 2020)

drjeff said:


> I'd like to say that Vail Resorts are quite deceptive, however that would mean that this year, now roughly 24 hrs until the 1st chairs of the season spin at Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow and Hunter, that they would of actually updated their snow report section of their webpage with even something as simple as "planned opening on Wednesday November 25th"


Pretty incredible, just complete radio silence up until maybe an hour ago when they listed trails / lifts for opening day tomorrow. Considering it was raining in Wilmington VT yesterday morning I was expecting at least a little bit of an update on whether they thought would still be able to make their planned opening day. Instead the snow report (still) just said "Snow & weather commentary updates coming soon." In the past there were photos of actual snowmaking, continuous communication, etc. I'm not a reflexive Vail hater but they really sucked the fun out of the anticipation of the season. I almost never even go on opening day but this year I had reservations for Thanksgiving weekend and I actually canceled them given the lack of certainty about what would even be open this week (among other things).


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## icecoast1 (Nov 24, 2020)

drjeff said:


> I'd like to say that Vail Resorts are quite deceptive, however that would mean that this year, now roughly 24 hrs until the 1st chairs of the season spin at Stowe, Okemo, Mount Snow and Hunter, that they would of actually updated their snow report section of their webpage with even something as simple as "planned opening on Wednesday November 25th"



Apparantly they're expecting you to go to twitter for accurate up to date info on mount snow


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## 1dog (Nov 24, 2020)

djd66 said:


> In the past (pre Altera) Sugarbush has consistently under reported snowfall.  Not sure why or if they got less snow than fell at my place (1700’) and MRG,... but it always seems to be less snow than actually fell.


SHHHHHH. . . its always worse in Mad River Valley, best head north or south.

True though, very conservative and sometimes even not reporting any new when there was new. OK with those of us who call it home.


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## Harvey (Nov 26, 2020)

Cornhead said:


> Packed pretty tightly, I'd say.


How about shiny powder.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 27, 2020)

I like it when Resorts count the snowfall at the very top of the mtn for their snowfall report. I don't know about you but I don't just ski the top 200 vertical feet of a mountian.  Resorts should make it common practice to report snowfall totals at the top, middle and bottom.  This would give you a more accurate snow report based on the part of the mtn you are skiing.  Sugarbush is the only resort that will give you top and middle snowfall amounts but the seasonal average is from the top.
Lastly, resorts shouldn't count snowfall at the begining of the year unless its adds to their  base.


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## Harvey (Nov 27, 2020)

I don't really care where the mountain reports from as long as they are consistent and they make it know.

Measuring at the base is by far the most useful. Sometimes 3 inches at the top is rain at the bottom.



nhskier1969 said:


> Lastly, resorts shouldn't count snowfall at the begining of the year unless its adds to their base.


I KNOW I am in the minority here. I disagree.


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## urungus (Nov 27, 2020)

Jiminy Peak current Facebook post:


Conditions today:


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## cdskier (Nov 27, 2020)

nhskier1969 said:


> I like it when Resorts count the snowfall at the very top of the mtn for their snowfall report. I don't know about you but I don't just ski the top 200 vertical feet of a mountian.  Resorts should make it common practice to report snowfall totals at the top, middle and bottom.  This would give you a more accurate snow report based on the part of the mtn you are skiing.  Sugarbush is the only resort that will give you top and middle snowfall amounts but the seasonal average is from the top.
> Lastly, resorts shouldn't count snowfall at the begining of the year unless its adds to their  base.



I agree. Although for Sugarbush I don't understand why they don't list the season totals for all 3 measurements on their website (they do list them on their e-mailed snow reports so it isn't like they're not tracking them on a continual basis).

I agree about the last point as well. Drives me nuts when a resort counts snowfall from October or early November that melts before they even open for the season.


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## kingslug (Nov 27, 2020)

All I care about is ice..And I figure that out myself.


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## nhskier1969 (Nov 29, 2020)

You gotta love Mad River Glens brutally honest snow Report.  They will use phrases like "dust on crust" "nor-incher" on their report.


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## Harvey (Nov 29, 2020)

In fairness to other ski areas, the way Mad operates, if no one shows up, or numbers are down, no one gets fired.


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## skef (Nov 30, 2020)

Sunday River Twitter looking pretty honest.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333499311674576896


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## So Inclined (Dec 30, 2021)

Meanwhile, over at MRG


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## Harvey (Dec 30, 2021)

Mad plays by different rules. It's good for them.


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## slatham (Dec 30, 2021)

Love this. This is true old school skiing, not corp BS. Sugarbush and Magic follow this philosophy - others too I am sure but not EPIC thats for sure. 

I hope Sugarbush doesn't change their open trail philosophy.


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## Kingslug20 (Dec 30, 2021)

Stowe has a new name for snow,sleet,ice...
The mansfield medly...oh...boy


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## Harvey (Dec 31, 2021)

slatham said:


> This is true old school skiing, not corp BS.


In Mad's case, you have shareholders who don't own stock as a financial investment.  Shares are not traded on an exchange and no one's employment or salary is based on quarterly returns.  If Mad gets killed in a season without snow, it's ok.

It gives you a freedom, that is not fair to compare, to a normal business.


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## cdskier (Dec 31, 2021)

XTski said:


> What your excuse for the totally biased blog on Gore? getting free beer? That place was a madhouse but not to you? you are the biggest homer when it comes to letting people post balony reports on your B S site


This nonsense again? Leave issues with other sites at those other sites and stop bringing this drama here...


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## skiur (Dec 31, 2021)

XTski said:


> What your excuse for the totally biased blog on Gore? getting free beer? That place was a madhouse but not to you? you are the biggest homer when it comes to letting people post balony reports on your B S site


Getting old bro....


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## Harvey (Jan 1, 2022)

This again? Somebody is bored.

X is correct we do take a pretty positive approach to skiing. That approach covers all of NY and VT not just Gore.  You do hear from me personally on Gore fairly often because we have a place there. In total on NYSB we try to mix it up the best we can, covering different mountains.

Is there a rule that says I have to be unbiased? Nobody's paying us, and if anyone has tips on how to actually get a beer, or a bartender's attention, at Gore I'm all ears.  In all my years at Gore, more than 20, I've tried four times and succeeded once.  I don't drink enough when I am there to get a reputation as a tipper.

Back on topic, I actually think Gore is pretty legit with snow reporting.  We have a place nearby, at a similar elevation, and in my experience what they do report is a accurate for the base.  My complaint with Gore would be that new snow can go unreported. Not deceptive, but if I owned a mountain I'd make sure to report every inch.


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## abc (Jan 1, 2022)

Harvey said:


> Is there a rule that says I have to be unbiased?


I guess not. Especially when you spell it out where your bias is.

It's good to know a place is clearly biased. Some people prefers unbiased while others prefers echo chamber. Should be no confusion.


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## Harvey (Jan 1, 2022)

Echo chamber implies that others are saying or thinking? the same thing.

My bias is toward fun and enjoyment.  I never claimed to be a journalist.


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## abc (Jan 1, 2022)

So resorts are totally in their right to report snow condition "biased". (toward the rosy side of course)

I think we all "understand" that.


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## Harvey (Jan 1, 2022)

I think we are talking about two different things.

If resorts BS their snow reporting it's not right or wrong. It's a business decision. IMO not a smart one.  

But to some extent I guess people do learn to compensate.


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## abc (Jan 1, 2022)

Harvey said:


> But to some extent I guess people do learn to compensate.


Yes, people do. 

The compensation also applies to biased website too.


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## Kingslug20 (Jan 1, 2022)

Yeah...love the " mansfield medly"...wonder who came up with that one...


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## cdskier (Jan 3, 2022)

XTski said:


> Friends see bullshit and they let me know as I don’t mind people giving me crap for speaking the truth, and others see you giving me shit for it so they know to not necessarily believe what you post,


Huh? There was nothing to believe or not believe about my post. If you have a problem with service/food at restaurant A, do you go into restaurant B and constantly complain to the staff and people there about your issues with restaurant A?


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