# Groomer Stoke Thread



## davidhowland14 (Jan 15, 2008)

*Groomer PIcs*

I have a weird fascination with groomers. Post best groomer pics below.


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## Greg (Jan 15, 2008)




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## twinplanx (Jan 15, 2008)

Is that the one from "The Shining"


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 15, 2008)

Let's start with some new Pisten Bullies:


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 15, 2008)




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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 15, 2008)

And then we can move on to some modern Prinoth machines:


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 16, 2008)

And then we can go oldschool:

LMC 3700 A:






Thiokol Spryte:






Kristi KT-4:






Tucker 2000:






Thiokol 2100:






Tucker 1642:






DMC 4700:






Old Bombi's:






1939 Weasle:






Cat-mounted Hedco snowgun:


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 16, 2008)

And I dare not forget our newest snowcat company, Japan-based OHARA Snowcats:


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 16, 2008)

Ya want some more???


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## drjeff (Jan 16, 2008)

How 'bout this one for 'ya that I took at the NSAA East show last February at Mount Snow.  A PB600 vs. a Prinny Bison!


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## bobbutts (Jan 16, 2008)




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## mountainman (Jan 16, 2008)

*Have operated all but 3.*

O'hara, weasel and Kristi. Nice pics. The O'hara is the part of the old LMC's.


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## AMAC2233 (Jan 16, 2008)

Has anyone ever seen the old groomer in the woods off Big Dipper at Loon? I think it got stuck there sometime in the 70's (or 80's?) and was never removed. I'll try to get a picture sometime.


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 16, 2008)

mountainman said:


> O'hara, weasel and Kristi. Nice pics. The O'hara is the part of the old LMC's.



The designs are similar, but O'hara owns no rights to the LMC machines.  I don't recall who owned LMC last (progression was Thiokol -> DMC -> LMC -> someone else), but they basically just dissolved the entire company, and did not sell the designs for anyone else to manufacture.

My first thought when I saw the Deer Forte 330 was that it was a new LMC 3700 or 260C, but its design is only based off of the concept of the LMC machines.

You can check 'em out at www.snowcats.com


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## bvibert (Jan 16, 2008)

AMAC2233 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the old groomer in the woods off Big Dipper at Loon? I think it got stuck there sometime in the 70's (or 80's?) and was never removed. I'll try to get a picture sometime.



I'd like to see that.  I'd also like to hear the story behind a groomer getting stuck in the woods and being left for dead...


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 16, 2008)

drjeff said:


> How 'bout this one for 'ya that I took at the NSAA East show last February at Mount Snow.  A PB600 vs. a Prinny Bison!



Bully wins every time! :wink:

Actually, I've never been in a Bison before.  I guess they're making a center-seat version.  I'd like to give that machine a whirl sometime.  But I've been way less than impressed with what I've seen from the BR-350's.  Just seems to be one thing after another.


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## tcharron (Jan 16, 2008)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Bully wins every time! :wink:
> 
> Actually, I've never been in a Bison before.  I guess they're making a center-seat version.  I'd like to give that machine a whirl sometime.  But I've been way less than impressed with what I've seen from the BR-350's.  Just seems to be one thing after another.



Try to ignore the 'vintage posters' and look at the last item.  :-D






http://www.todaysedge.net/news.html


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks like a PB 300W.  I think Pisten Bully sells models like that directly from their store. But it's a good thing you posted the image in the thread, because I'm having trouble scrolling past the 'vintage posters'! :wink:


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## tcharron (Jan 16, 2008)

BushMogulMaster said:


> Looks like a PB 300W.  I think Pisten Bully sells models like that directly from their store. But it's a good thing you posted the image in the thread, because I'm having trouble scrolling past the 'vintage posters'! :wink:



Well, I did say 'try'.  :-D  That doesn't always infer any hope of actually succeeding.


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## layla17 (Jan 16, 2008)

Best Groomer I've Ever Seen


Sorry for the link.  I'm having trouble uploading the image.


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## Phildozer (Jan 16, 2008)

tcharron said:


> Try to ignore the 'vintage posters' and look at the last item.  :-D
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When I found out my wife was pregnant with our son, this was the first toy I bought him.


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## bvibert (Jan 16, 2008)

layla17 said:


> Best Groomer I've Ever Seen
> 
> 
> Sorry for the link.  I'm having trouble uploading the image.



This?


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## drjeff (Jan 16, 2008)

Phildozer said:


> When I found out my wife was pregnant with our son, this was the first toy I bought him.



I have the Model 300 for my kids!  Really cool model with an adjustable blade and tiller and built Pisten Bulley tough too!  Even after a year of playing with by what are now a 2 year old and a 4 year old, it's still as good as new!

I've even seen a remote controlled pisten bulley that I'm contemplating getting for myself to go with my model ariel trams that I have!


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## learn2turn (Jan 16, 2008)

Here's a picture of my favorite kind of groomer....


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## tcharron (Jan 16, 2008)

learn2turn said:


> Here's a picture of my favorite kind of groomer....



Not a fan of the groomers I see.  :-D


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## AMAC2233 (Jan 16, 2008)

bvibert said:


> I'd like to see that.  I'd also like to hear the story behind a groomer getting stuck in the woods and being left for dead...



I've never heard the real story but apparently it was back when groomers (this one at least) were not capable of climbing such steep slopes. So it some how ended up in the woods? I don't know. The guy that pointed it out to me wasn't completely "with it."


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## tcharron (Jan 16, 2008)

bvibert said:


> I'd like to see that.  I'd also like to hear the story behind a groomer getting stuck in the woods and being left for dead...



Sounds like an advanced questions to the next challenge.  :-D


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## bobbutts (Jan 31, 2008)




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## davidhowland14 (Jan 31, 2008)

at loon MLK weekend I skeid all the way down big dipper a couple of times, with my friend checking out the other side of the trail. neither one of us could find the groomer in the woods.


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## AMAC2233 (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeah, it's hard to see, especially covered in snow. I think it's right across from where Angel Street merges, in terms of location. It's also very old and looks nothing like a modern groomer. The fact that it's half tilted on its side doesn't help, either.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 31, 2008)

drjeff said:


> I've even seen a remote controlled pisten bulley that I'm contemplating getting for myself to go with my model aerial trams that I have!



I had one of those when I was a kid!


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## downhill04 (Feb 1, 2008)




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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 1, 2008)

I thought I'd also share with you just how much my college life sucks :wink:

Professor Curt "BladeMaster" Bender working on campus.  This is the view out my dorm room window:







Oh, and here's one of my crappy "classrooms:"








Oh yeah... I really hate college.  Why did I choose to study Ski Area Ops instead of Biochemistry or Nuclear Physics or Ancient Literature, or something actually interesting like that.... :wink: :lol:


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## Telemechanic (Feb 14, 2008)

*Dipper Wreck Story*



AMAC2233 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the old groomer in the woods off Big Dipper at Loon? I think it got stuck there sometime in the 70's (or 80's?) and was never removed. I'll try to get a picture sometime.



The wreck on Big Dipper (skiers right where A-Street enters) is a Bombardier Muskeg.  It isn't a groomer but a tracked utility vehicle.  Loon still has one and it is primary used durning non winter months for trail construction and maintenance.  The story I've heard about the Dipper wreck is while was being used during construction of the East Basin trails ( 1968 ) it overheated, caught fire and was destroyed.  Allegedly the fire burned off the mulch and grass seed that had been spread over the newly graded trail.  Its likely the Muskeg was hauling mulch and/or seed.  This incident is one of the "Troubles" that inspired the naming of the trail "Triple Trouble".

If your looking to spot the wreck start with a ride up the East Basin Double, it will be on your left set back into the woods five feet or so.


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## WJenness (Feb 14, 2008)

Telemechanic said:


> The wreck on Big Dipper (skiers right where A-Street enters) is a Bombardier Muskeag.  It isn't a groomer but a tracked utility vehicle.  Loon still has one and it is primary used durning non winter months for trail construction and maintenance.  The story I've heard about the Dipper wreck is while was being used during construction of the East Basin trails ( 1968 ) it overheated, caught fire and was destroyed.  Allegedly the fire burned off the mulch and grass seed that had been spread over the newly graded trail.  Its likely the Muskeag was hauling mulch and/or seed.  This incident is one of the "Troubles" that inspired the naming of the trail "Triple Trouble".
> 
> If your looking to spot the wreck start with a ride up the East Basin Double, it will be on your left set back into the woods five feet or so.



Interesting. I was peering off the EB chair looking for it last time I was up there but didn't see it... I'll look harder next time.

Out of curiosity, what were the other two troubles?

-w


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## koreshot (Feb 14, 2008)

Not really used for groomer but hey...


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## Phildozer (Feb 14, 2008)

http://picasaweb.google.com/thepietrowskifamily/PhotosPhilLikes/photo#5157584198544282434

http://picasaweb.google.com/thepietrowskifamily/PhotosPhilLikes/photo#5157584245788922706

Two blurry pictures!


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## Greg (Feb 14, 2008)

http://www.mangroomer.com/


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## AMAC2233 (Feb 14, 2008)

Telemechanic said:


> The wreck on Big Dipper (skiers right where A-Street enters) is a Bombardier Muskeag.  It isn't a groomer but a tracked utility vehicle.  Loon still has one and it is primary used durning non winter months for trail construction and maintenance.  The story I've heard about the Dipper wreck is while was being used during construction of the East Basin trails ( 1968 ) it overheated, caught fire and was destroyed.  Allegedly the fire burned off the mulch and grass seed that had been spread over the newly graded trail.  Its likely the Muskeag was hauling mulch and/or seed.  This incident is one of the "Troubles" that inspired the naming of the trail "Triple Trouble".
> 
> If your looking to spot the wreck start with a ride up the East Basin Double, it will be on your left set back into the woods five feet or so.



Yeah, I knew it was too boxy/small to be a groomer. Guess the story has been modifed over time. It's definitely there though.


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## Telemechanic (Feb 15, 2008)

WJenness said:


> Interesting. I was peering off the EB chair looking for it last time I was up there but didn't see it... I'll look harder next time.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what were the other two troubles?
> 
> -w


I can be hard to spot, as it is farther off the edge of the trail than one might think.  I miss it sometimes too.  It also has a lot of snow on it this year.  I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow.

The first trouble was the general difficulty of building the East Basin trails: steep and peppered with boulders and ledge.  

I believe the second (or third) trouble is linked to the Muskeag incident.  The burning of the mulch may have exasperated  loss of topsoil durning some heavy rains. 

I may clarify the "troubles" tomorrow after I re-read the story.  The Loon Ski Patrol has an unpublished paper on trail name origins at Loon that I will consult.


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## bvibert (Feb 15, 2008)

Telemechanic said:


> The wreck on Big Dipper (skiers right where A-Street enters) is a Bombardier Muskeag.  It isn't a groomer but a tracked utility vehicle.  Loon still has one and it is primary used durning non winter months for trail construction and maintenance.  The story I've heard about the Dipper wreck is while was being used during construction of the East Basin trails ( 1968 ) it overheated, caught fire and was destroyed.  Allegedly the fire burned off the mulch and grass seed that had been spread over the newly graded trail.  Its likely the Muskeag was hauling mulch and/or seed.  This incident is one of the "Troubles" that inspired the naming of the trail "Triple Trouble".
> 
> If your looking to spot the wreck start with a ride up the East Basin Double, it will be on your left set back into the woods five feet or so.



Thanks for the real scoop!


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## Telemechanic (Feb 24, 2008)

*The Wreck at Loon*



Telemechanic said:


> The wreck on Big Dipper (skiers right where A-Street enters) is a Bombardier Muskeg.  It isn't a groomer but a tracked utility vehicle.  Loon still has one and it is primary used durning non winter months for trail construction and maintenance.  The story I've heard about the Dipper wreck is while was being used during construction of the East Basin trails ( 1968 ) it overheated, caught fire and was destroyed.  Allegedly the fire burned off the mulch and grass seed that had been spread over the newly graded trail.  Its likely the Muskeg was hauling mulch and/or seed.  This incident is one of the "Troubles" that inspired the naming of the trail "Triple Trouble".
> 
> If your looking to spot the wreck start with a ride up the East Basin Double, it will be on your left set back into the woods five feet or so.



Here are some pictures of the Muskeg wreck at Loon.

Photo one shows the location on Big Dipper.
View attachment 1290


Photo two was taken from the edge of the trail.  
View attachment 1291

Photo three was taken uphill of the wreck about 10 feet into the woods.  
View attachment 1292

Photos four thru seven will be in the next post and will show some detail (whats left).


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## Telemechanic (Feb 24, 2008)

*Wreck at Loon, part 2*



Telemechanic said:


> The wreck on Big Dipper (skiers right where A-Street enters) is a Bombardier Muskeg.  It isn't a groomer but a tracked utility vehicle.  Loon still has one and it is primary used durning non winter months for trail construction and maintenance.  The story I've heard about the Dipper wreck is while was being used during construction of the East Basin trails ( 1968 ) it overheated, caught fire and was destroyed.  Allegedly the fire burned off the mulch and grass seed that had been spread over the newly graded trail.  Its likely the Muskeg was hauling mulch and/or seed.  This incident is one of the "Troubles" that inspired the naming of the trail "Triple Trouble".
> 
> If your looking to spot the wreck start with a ride up the East Basin Double, it will be on your left set back into the woods five feet or so.



More Pictures of the wreck of 1968 (see previous post for introduction)

Photo four shows the underside from below
View attachment 1295

Photo five: a close-up of the wheels.  The track and rubber tires are long gone.
View attachment 1296

Photo six: Notice how much the tree has grown around this wheel.
View attachment 1297

Photo seven is whats left of the gauges and controls.
View attachment 1298


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## Hawkshot99 (Feb 24, 2008)

That is pretty cool.


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## mountainman (Feb 24, 2008)

*Any one got pic's?*

Looking to see if any one has pic's of the tractor that flipped over at Mt. Snow back in 2001 i think.


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 24, 2008)

mountainman said:


> Looking to see if any one has pic's of the tractor that flipped over at Mt. Snow back in 2001 i think.



I don't, but I'd be willing to be my grooming prof does (he has a whole collection of snowcat "blood & guts" pictures).  I'll check on that and post it if I can get ahold of one.


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## drjeff (Feb 25, 2008)

Check out Killington's newest machine.  Impressive!







and 






Per the killington website,  it's the world's largest,  it's got 500 horses,  4 foot wide tracks and a 22 foot wide blade.


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## thetrailboss (Mar 26, 2008)

I think we might have had a thread on this, but if not, we can start one.  Post your pics of groomers in action....boys like their toys!  

Burke's toys working on March 22, 2008


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Mar 26, 2008)

Boner City!!!


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## wa-loaf (Mar 26, 2008)

Ahem: http://forums.alpinezone.com/22764-groomer-pics.html?highlight=GRoomer+Pics#post225501
:-D


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## loafer89 (Mar 26, 2008)

Wachusett night grooming, January 23rd 2008:


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## Greg (Mar 26, 2008)

Keep those bastards off the hill!


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## davidhowland14 (Mar 26, 2008)

Ragged's cat knocking down whales back in 2005.











Ragged's new cat. 2008






Crotched's machine crushing the fresh powder. 2008


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## wa-loaf (Mar 26, 2008)

Greg said:


> Keep those bastards off the hill!



And thats the mogul run too!


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## loafer89 (Mar 26, 2008)

Greg said:


> Keep those bastards off the hill!


 
Honestly without grooming the skiing at Sunday River last weekend would have been death defying due to the extensive freezing rain the week before.

For certain extreme rain/freeze events I am all for grooming, otherwise not.

Groomed vs ungroomed on Top Gun last sunday:


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## thetrailboss (Mar 26, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> Ahem: http://forums.alpinezone.com/22764-groomer-pics.html?highlight=GRoomer+Pics#post225501
> :-D



Ah, OK there it is...I thought I saw it here....maybe we could merge the threads?


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## thetrailboss (Mar 26, 2008)

Merge done.  That's better!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BeanoNYC (Mar 27, 2008)

Lucky ass Snowboarder


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## BushMogulMaster (Mar 27, 2008)

College sucks:

Cats/Workers getting ready for the 3rd Annual CMC Rail Jam:






A great use for a York Waterstick:






Part of the "crew:"


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## drjeff (Mar 28, 2008)

BeanoNYC said:


> Lucky ass Snowboarder



The wonders of photoshop!  Just watch the back of the groomer tracks when the cat is about 1/3rd of the way up the landing area for the editing "pause"


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## diecastmania (Jan 12, 2014)

Telemechanic said:


> More Pictures of the wreck of 1968 (see previous post for introduction)
> 
> Photo four shows the underside from below
> View attachment 1295
> ...



The files say  they are invalid, do you still have the pics elsewhere?


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## diecastmania (Jan 12, 2014)

*Pb400*


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 12, 2014)

Jiminy Peak groomer?

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 12, 2014)

A few recent shots from Ski Cooper:








And sometimes the visibility is just _​great_... :roll:


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 12, 2014)

BMM which type of groomer do you prefer? PB or Prinoth? 

Isn't the main difference between the two joystick vs steering wheel tuning?


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## Hawkshot99 (Jan 12, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> BMM which type of groomer do you prefer? PB or Prinoth?
> 
> Isn't the main difference between the two joystick vs steering wheel tuning?



The first cat is a Bombardier.
Piston Bullies are left hand drive steering wheels. Primoths are center drive sticks.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2


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## Abubob (Jan 12, 2014)

From about 4 years ago on Showboat at Ragged:


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 12, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> BMM which type of groomer do you prefer? PB or Prinoth?
> 
> Isn't the main difference between the two joystick vs steering wheel tuning?





Hawkshot99 said:


> The first cat is a Bombardier.
> Piston Bullies are left hand drive steering wheels. Prinoths are center drive sticks.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



The Prinoth BR-350 is still in production, and is a left-seat stick machine.  The Prinoth Bison and Beast are center seat with sticks.  PistenBully machines (400 and 600) are left seat, available in either sticks or wheel.

To answer the question re: machine preference, I'm split.  I definitely prefer sticks to the yoke, though I've logged plenty of hours in both types of controls.  Overall, I'm a PB (with sticks) guy. From my own experience, they seem to be more reliable.  I also prefer the finish from the PB tiller, though there are some distinct advantages to the Prinoth technology.  Engine-wise, I like the older PBs with Mercedes powerplants better than the new 400s with the Cummins QSL.  The Cat C9 in the BR350 (and Bison, I think) is certainly a workhorse, but I've had more than a few computer/sensor glitches that took me off the hill.  It's also the throatiest, loudest engine I've heard on a snowcat.  Can be cool to hear from a distance, but not so much when you spend a whole shift in it... have to crank up the tunes!  In terms of creature comforts, I've always been partial to the PB interior.  Though I do like the center seat option in the new Prinoth cats.

So how's that for a non-committal answer?  Long story short, they're all great cats.  Each manufacturer has strong points and weak points.  But I guess if I had a blank check in my hand, I'd go PB right now.


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 12, 2014)

Here are a few in-cab pictures I was able to dig up to differentiate between various controls:

PB300 with wheel:




Old-style PB sticks (paddles) in a PB200 Edge (with my little brother at the sticks... years ago...):




Blade joystick and console from the same PB200 Edge:




New PB sticks in a demo PB400 from 2009:




Prinoth BR350 controls (sticks are out of frame to the left):




Bison pix in next post...


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 12, 2014)

Prinoth Bison interior:




Bison blade joystick and computer monitoring:


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 13, 2014)

BMM once again you have given us laymen who drool over playing with such neat toys a wonderful insight into the complexities of what you do with them. More groomer stoke please !


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## MadMadWorld (Jan 13, 2014)

Ugh I don't want to think about groomers! I want to rip some pow-pow!


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## BushMogulMaster (Jan 13, 2014)

Sweet groomer stoke vid from an Aspen cat operator:


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## RunLouRun (Jan 13, 2014)

Right there with you


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## WoodCore (Jan 14, 2014)

Classic Stoke


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 14, 2014)

woodcore said:


> classic stoke
> 
> View attachment 10377




wooooooooot !!!!


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## diecastmania (Jan 19, 2014)

Hawkshot99 said:


> Jiminy Peak groomer?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2



Yes, indeed it is


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## diecastmania (Jan 20, 2014)

One of my Miniature  Groomers, 1:43 scale Prinoth Bison X


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 20, 2014)

Always found this K commercial kind of funny


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## Nick (Jan 20, 2014)

Cool bump!


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