# Mountain Creek Sojourn Double removed



## Rob A (Sep 23, 2010)

All details (and chair sales) here: http://www.mountaincreek.com/mountain-info/sojourn-chair-sale/sojourn-chair-sale

The question I have is, how does the Crystal Springs operated Mountain Creek plan to let skiers ski across all 4 peaks without driving or taking shuttle buses? I had high expectations with Intrawest leaving, but have seen no improvements yet.


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## RootDKJ (Sep 23, 2010)

Man, I have so many memories of riding that lift.


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## millerm277 (Sep 23, 2010)

I'll be curious to see what the next step is, as to if they're going to replace it, require shuttle buses, or actually connect them some other way, such as with Intrawest's old master plan with another trail pod between South and GGN/Granite.


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## NJSkiBabe (Sep 24, 2010)

Here's the perfect opportunity - take the cabriolet and put it there!


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## RootDKJ (Sep 24, 2010)

NJSkiBabe said:


> Here's the perfect opportunity - take the cabriolet and put it there!


I hate that lift.  It's bad enough for the 55 seconds it takes to get to the top of VV, I couldn't imagine riding back from GG


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## ERJ-145CA (Sep 25, 2010)

RootDKJ said:


> I hate that lift.  It's bad enough for the 55 seconds it takes to get to the top of VV, I couldn't imagine riding back from GG



Yeah but you would need to use it a lot less, maybe once a ski day instead of every 90 seconds.  Hopefully it's not run into the ground like when it was VV-GG.


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## evantrentful (Sep 26, 2010)

So it begins. I bet in 5 years everyone is going to miss Intrawest


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## NJSkiBabe (Sep 26, 2010)

evantrentful said:


> So it begins. I bet in 5 years everyone is going to miss Intrawest



No one has misse Intrawest so far. They haven't existed for several years already. Fortress Investments owned & operated everything that was under Intrawest.


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## bensonr2 (Sep 28, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if there are no plans to replace the lift. The new management seems to be continuing the policy of segregating the parks and pipes boarding crowd from the skiers. 

I didn't even ski the south (GG) side of the resort last year since I never bothered to fill out the form and pick up a park pass. I did not seem worth the hassle to ski a few runs dodging the park features.

Still its most disappointing news. Although they ruined the old Great Gorge by shoe horning park features on all trails it still was nice to have the option to venture all the way over there. It helped the place feel much bigger then it was.


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## legalskier (Sep 28, 2010)

Rob A said:


> The question I have is, how does the Crystal Springs operated Mountain Creek plan to let skiers ski across all 4 peaks without driving or taking shuttle buses?.



Good question. The one thing I enjoyed about MC was being able to cruise around over four peaks eluding the crowds while searching for pockets of good snow. (Also, GG was the first area where I skied under lights as a kid, before there was any VV, or Granite, or South, or anything else besides dairy farms up there.) 
That lift was old and slow, but it offered a few minutes of quiet respite from the usual frenetic scene; I did a lot of thinking on it while catching some rays. It troubles me that they haven't announced their plans- will it be a new lift, or the long talked about trail pod between South and Granite, or nothing at all?  Only time will tell. Now the owner who owned it prior to Intrawest has returned; this is the same entity that let the area sadly sink into oblivion during the 80s and 90s, while they were investigated for various shenanigans. Here's a synopsis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Creek 
Based on that, I'll believe it when I see it.  "Meet the new boss/ Same as the old boss"


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## CollegeKid (Oct 1, 2010)

I think it is going to be tough for the new ownership given that Mountain Creek is in the same competition demographic as the Poconos.  The Poconos have a much greater advantage in their snow-making capabilities and therefore reliability to attract people from NYC.   Also, I feel people who travel in the winter want to get a little bit further away than 60 minutes from the George Washington Bridge.  Right now, with all of the development in the Pocono Mountains with new casinos and resorts like Camelback preparing an indoor water park and hotel, it is the place to be for winter vacationers from NYC, NJ, and Philadelphia.


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## x10003q (Oct 1, 2010)

legalskier said:


> "Meet the new boss/  Same as the old boss"


The Who - We Won't Get Fooled Again

Kudos to legalskier - you nailed it.

MC will revert to the old uninsured mountain it was with the Mulvihills back in charge. I would guess the Sojourn chair will never be replaced. The Tents at the base of VV remain a nice touch. I wonder what magic beans these guys are goiing to sell now? Maybe they will sell shares in a real life Farmville. Maybe they will take a page out of the NFL's "How to Steal Legally" book and charge a lift license for the right to buy a lift ticket. I am so happy that for an extra 1/2 hour of driving I can be skiing in the Catskills.



I won't get fooled again.


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## St. Bear (Oct 1, 2010)

CollegeKid said:


> I think it is going to be tough for the new ownership given that Mountain Creek is in the same competition demographic as the Poconos.  The Poconos have a much greater advantage in their snow-making capabilities and therefore reliability to attract people from NYC.   Also, I feel people who travel in the winter want to get a little bit further away than 60 minutes from the George Washington Bridge.  Right now, with all of the development in the Pocono Mountains with new casinos and resorts like Camelback preparing an indoor water park and hotel, it is the place to be for winter vacationers from NYC, NJ, and Philadelphia.



A major advantage for most of the Pocono resorts is that they are very close to 80 and 78.  MC promotes that they're the closest "big" resort to NYC, but Camelback is much more convenient to get to for most people.


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## evantrentful (Oct 2, 2010)

Like some of the others have said, Mountain Creek is now back in the hands of the same guy who ran it into the ground and literally may have cost some people their lives at action park.

For all the bad rap Intrawest got atleast they spent a boatload of money on the place. 5 new lifts within the first 2 years of operation. Actually opening the southlodge and completely renovating it. Massive investment into snow making infrastructure. And while they didnt run it all the time, they made an effort, especially in the first decade of ownership to have the Sojourn Double and trail open.

I highly doubt in this kind of market that the Double is going to be replaced anytime soon. To me mountain creek is dead now. The last thing I want to do is have to take a shuttle bus everytime I want to get to a different section of the resort. Shit I can just go to Belleayre and Hunter and drive back and forth between the two for the same experience.


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## bensonr2 (Oct 2, 2010)

Did anyone notice the price for a chair from the lift? $295

They must be smoking crack.

Also have you seen the increase in season pass prices? The pre season price is now 300 for the weekday pass. I know that's still cheap compared to even most pocono resorts... but I believe last year they sold for 200. Thats a 50 percent increase and they already removed a major interconnecting lift.

Not to mention the pass no longer includes the benefits at other intrawest resorts. They worked out some deals with Waterville Valley and Killington. The discounts are pretty minor. When they were an intrawest resort you could use their season pass for a 20 dollar midweek ticket at Stratton. I know thats not everyone's favorite... but its not a bad hill and thats a great price.


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## NJSkiBabe (Oct 2, 2010)

All of the Fortress Investment Company (Intrawest) resorts have been sold off. Just like the American Ski Company resorts were several years ago.


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## legalskier (Oct 2, 2010)

NJSkiBabe said:


> All of the Fortress Investment Company (Intrawest) resorts have been sold off. Just like the American Ski Company resorts were several years ago.



Some but not all Intrawest/Fortress holdings were sold:

_Resorts owned at least in part by Intrawest include:
Blue Mountain, Ontario
Snowshoe Mountain, West Virginia
Steamboat Ski Resort, Colorado
Stratton Mountain Resort, Vermont
Mont Tremblant Resort, Quebec
Whistler Blackcomb, British Columbia
Winter Park, Colorado (Contract to operate this city park owned by the city of Denver.)
Former Resorts
Copper Mountain, Colorado (November 2009)
Les Arcs 1950, France (October 2009)
Flaine Montsoleil development, France (October 2009)
Panorama Mountain Village, British Columbia (January 2010)
Mammoth, California (March 2006)
Mountain Creek, New Jersey (May 2010)
Sandestin Golf & Beach Resort, Florida (March 2010)
The Village at Squaw Valley, California (January 2010)_
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrawest


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## bensonr2 (Oct 3, 2010)

The NJ Herald has an article online:

http://www.njherald.com/story/news/29Chairs

There is some bad news followed by some good news:

The entire lift is being disassembled, and most likely won’t be replaced by another chairlift. Shuttle buses will get people back and forth from peak to peak this winter, O’Brien said. 

A new trail is in the works that would enable skiers to ski from South Peak to Granite Peak, but that work most likely will not be completed until the winter of 2011-2012, O’Brien said.  


As far as there being a new interconnecting trail I'll believe it when I see it. I picture any new trail being limited in placement by the old condos and the crystal springs hotel. I imagine any interconnecting trail would need to hook up with the "granite view" trail they removed from later trail maps. That trail was even flatter then the southern sojourn trail. In fact it went literally up hill at one point. 

The few times I skied it I gave up took off my skis and walked.


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## legalskier (Oct 3, 2010)

bensonr2 said:


> I imagine any interconnecting trail would need to hook up with the "granite view" trail they removed from later trail maps. That trail was even flatter then the southern sojourn trail. In fact it went literally up hill at one point.
> The few times I skied it I gave up took off my skis and walked.



I always viewed it as an opportunity to work on my skating skills. :roll:


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## bensonr2 (Oct 6, 2010)

On the MC website they have a blog post with further details regarding a new interconnecting trail from GG South to GG North.

http://creektalks.blogspot.com/2010/10/resort-improvements-whats-deal.html

As I suspected it appears that the new trail will hook up with the "granite view" trail that was on earlier MC trail maps.

I guess this is a reasonable solution. Though it was tough enough using that trail as a skier. Since mostly boarders will be using this trail to get back to VV I expect many of them to be annoyed at the amount of walking they will do on the trail. The uphill section on that trail was at least twice as much a pain as the flat section at the end of the "southern sojourn" trail.


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## legalskier (Oct 8, 2010)

_The new trail will be a mile and a quarter long and rated intermediate. It has not been named yet. Clearing and cutting has begun and management is hoping it will be ready for this season. It will be lighted and have 100 percent snowmaking by the 2011-12 season. Shuttle buses will be used to move guests between peaks until the trial is ready for prime time._






_In the top trial map, the new trail connecting the the top of South Peak with the middle of Granite Peak is marked in green. In the undated trail map at the bottom. The red line connecting mid-section of South Peak to the top of Granite Peak was the location of the Sojourn Double Chair (R.I.P.)._
http://blog.nj.com/skiing/2010/10/in_with_a_new_trail_out_with_a.html



bensonr2 said:


> Since mostly boarders will be using this trail to get back to VV I expect many of them to be annoyed at the amount of walking they will do on the trail. The uphill section on that trail was at least twice as much a pain as the flat section at the end of the "southern sojourn" trail.


If the new trail connects to Granite Peak below that section, no worries; but that's hard to tell from the illustration.


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## bensonr2 (Oct 8, 2010)

I still think its going to basically rejoin the granite view trail right by the uphill section. Obviously I'm just speculating based on the very few details they have provided. But I believe the old condos above the minerals spa resort come pretty far up the hill side and prevent the trail from going much lower. And in their new trail map the new trail intersects with the bottom of the pipeline trail just as granite view did.

Not to mention there is a pond along the southern sojourn trail that provides water for snow making. The new interconnecting trail will need to come in above that I believe.


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## bensonr2 (Nov 27, 2010)

Just a quick update to this thread. I noticed on the Mountain Creek website they have posted a new trail map. The only difference I noticed is they added a bubble "new lodge coming soon" at the Vernon Valley base area. 

I was curious if anyone heard anything.

Oh also there was one other minor change. They changed the name of two trails back to the original name.


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## bensonr2 (Oct 31, 2011)

I was looking at the Mountain Creek site and I noticed the latest version of the trail map does not seem to include the connector trail back to granite.

I wonder if they gave up on the idea as soon as they discovered a little thing called gravity. Or if it turned out the state was going to give them a hard time clearing tree's for a new trail.


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## Rob A (Nov 9, 2011)

They had originally announced the new trail to be put in this year for sure, with full lighting and snowmaking, with the possibly of it opening last year. And now it seems they have removed all word of it from their site. 2 separate resorts for another season?


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## ERJ-145CA (Nov 9, 2011)

bensonr2 said:


> Just a quick update to this thread. I noticed on the Mountain Creek website they have posted a new trail map. The only difference I noticed is they added a bubble "new lodge coming soon" at the Vernon Valley base area.
> 
> I was curious if anyone heard anything.
> 
> Oh also there was one other minor change. They changed the name of two trails back to the original name.



I drive past MC whenever I go to the A & P or head towards Warwick, NY.  The lodge is almost complete and looks pretty nice so far.  As for the connector trail I have no idea what's going on with that.


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## legalskier (Nov 29, 2011)

ERJ-145CA said:


> I drive past MC whenever I go to the A & P or head towards Warwick, NY.  The lodge is almost complete and looks pretty nice so far.



Agreed-





http://photos.nj.com/the-times/2011/11/mountain_creek_thanksgiving_20_4.html (with slideshow)

55,000 square feet, scheduled to open Dec. 10, it's situated just below the half pipe. .  "The new lodge is three stories tall. The first floor will hold a ski and snowboard shop, rentals, guest services and a Starbucks. The second floor is for food and beverage, including a food court and table service restaurant. The third floor is the bar....In addition to the terrain parks that take up about half the snowsliding real estate, the resort is building a snow tubing park which they claim will be the largest in the country with more than 30 lanes, and new mountain roller coaster, 2 inflatable bag jumps and 5 new bars and restaurants."  -Martin Griff.   Story: http://blog.nj.com/skiing/2011/11/mountain_creek_guests_can_be_t.html

However, I doubt I'll go until the new connector trail opens.


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## ERJ-145CA (Nov 29, 2011)

If the new connector trail opens, I haven't seen or heard anything about it.  The shuttle is terrible, it goes from the parking lot of South to the parking lot of Vernon.  I don't know why they don't run it from in front of the South lodge to the base area of Vernon.  I don't think people are using it as a parking shuttle.


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## bensonr2 (Dec 4, 2011)

From that pic it looks like there is going to be parking adjacent to the new lodge. That alone is a much welcome improvement.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 4, 2011)

I've never skied MC, but I got the BOGO from attending the Warren Miller film.   

How does it compare to say, a Shawnee or a Blue Mountain?


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## millerm277 (Dec 4, 2011)

BenedictGomez said:


> How does it compare to say, a Shawnee or a Blue Mountain?



Terrain isn't bad. South Peak and Bear Peaks are pretty well laid out, the trails have a decent amount of character to them. Bear Peak is short compared to the other peaks, but it has a little more challenge than South has.

Granite's biggest problem is a lack of trails. The 2 trails are usually pretty crowded (moreso the Intermediate) because there's an entire Quad serving 2 runs. They're nice runs, just there are only two of them The 3rd run is Pipeline, but while it is legitimate pitch, it is pretty short, usually a solid sheet of ice, and followed by a hard right turn to a flat runout. Doesn't draw much traffic off the other runs.

Vernon.....I hate. The layout is horrible. The beginner off the top is flat, and  then curves back across ALL of the decent expert runs, making you not be able to ski those expert runs for more than 300 vertical feet without having to run a gauntlet of skiers. Most of the runs here are perfectly straight cuts down the mountain. The Gondola thing will make you want to murder people when you have to click your skis off after 2 minutes of skiing, and then STAND with 5 other people. If it's running, take the triple instead.

The intermediate's on the far left of the map are not particularly interesting, although they do avoid the beginner trail problem.

However, the biggest problem, made even worse since they removed the other trail going to the triple (there used to be a trail running from the bottom of Zero G straight to the bottom of the triple), is the bottom of the hill. Take a good look at the map. What do you see as an issue? If you answered "The funneling of 70%+ of the skier traffic from a 6 passenger gondola and a triple chair into one narrow run at the bottom", then congratulations, you win. What do you win? You get to navigate an incredibly dangerous crush of skiers of all levels into one ribbon of death.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 4, 2011)

^ This pretty much confirms all I've heard over the years, and one of the reasons I've never been.  That, and the fact that it's not like the Catskills are 28 more hours of a drive.  Also, the only thing you've left out, is that I've been told to not even bother with the place on weekends.  Maybe I'll try it on a Wednesday this season just to check it out, I imagine it must be empty midweek.


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## ERJ-145CA (Dec 4, 2011)

I live 10 minutes away and I'll only go mid-week, it's a much better experience.  Once in a while I'll go at night on a weekend.


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## bensonr2 (Dec 5, 2011)

I would say its not a bad experience midweek. But don't even think about weekends. 

I think one positive that gets left out in comparison to the pocono resorts at least. ls that it feels a lot bigger then it is with the way the 3 "peaks" are spread out. Though with the required shuttle ride right now to get back to the Vernon Valley side from Great Gorge that is diminished a little.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 5, 2011)

BenedictGomez said:


> ^ This pretty much confirms all I've heard over the years, and one of the reasons I've never been.  That, and the fact that it's not like the Catskills are 28 more hours of a drive.  Also, the only thing you've left out, is that I've been told to not even bother with the place on weekends.  Maybe I'll try it on a Wednesday this season just to check it out, I imagine it must be empty midweek.



Put it this way my dad had a great town house on the middle hill their, and even with free tickets his girlfriend at the time got the hook up  his place was their most last 4 years of the 90s or so and  i still only skiied thier a few nights mid week its great for that if you live near by, but for vertical is just flat i think i grew up skiing their as a kid. I have been to Blue in PA once on a 6 inch power day but i think Blue is a better hill i think.


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## watchoutbelow (Dec 5, 2011)

If you go right when it opens on Saturday and Sunday you can get in a good amount of skiing before the crowds show up. But get the hell out of there before noon or else you are looking at skiing in between some very dangerous beginners and lots of ice.

Also, I've noticed that when it's snowing on the weekend the crowds tend to be smaller because people are afraid of driving. So jump in your 4x4 and get there early.


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## ZYDECORICH (Dec 7, 2011)

The last 3 years I have gone from being a been a season midweek pass holder, to buying 3 triple play cards, to this year not buying any. The place has become boring and over priced for what it is. The amount of idiot skiers and boarders has made me save my bucks and go upstate. Maybe i'll go once or twice if we get a dump since i'm only 15 minutes away but other than that...going north, enough.


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## legalskier (Jul 30, 2012)

bensonr2 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if there are no plans to replace the lift. The new management seems to be continuing the policy of segregating the parks and pipes boarding crowd from the skiers.



New Sojourn fixed grip double reportedly under construction.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Creek#Lifts

I thought the plan was to cut a new trail from South Peak to Granite Peak that would eliminate the need for a Sojourn chair, no? Is the new trail still being built?


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## x10003q (Jul 30, 2012)

legalskier said:


> New Sojourn fixed grip double reportedly under construction.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Creek#Lifts
> 
> I thought the plan was to cut a new trail from South Peak to Granite Peak that would eliminate the need for a Sojourn chair, no? Is the new trail still being built?



Nice find. However, why wouldn't MC have this important news on their site? To me, the Sojurn Chair remains a dream, just like the connector trail that was supposed to be built with snowmaking and lights for last season.


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## WoodCore (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/2012/07/26/new-chairlift-to-connect-mountain-creek-once-again/


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## x10003q (Jul 30, 2012)

WoodCore said:


> http://www.firsttracksonline.com/2012/07/26/new-chairlift-to-connect-mountain-creek-once-again/



Thank you. I stand corrected.


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## ERJ-145CA (Aug 1, 2012)

I just got an e-mail newsletter from MC stating that a new Sojourn Double will be open for the 12-13 season so it looks like it's official.


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## RootDKJ (Aug 1, 2012)

They have pics on facespace. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150955393376938.418873.8641466937&type=3


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## ScottySkis (Aug 2, 2012)

Maybe I check it out this soon I might go this weekend their water park pass is only 60 dollars.


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