# Wilderness Ethics???



## thetrailboss (Apr 7, 2005)

OK, I'm going to make an effort to get things going in this room.  Whenever I hike, I get so upset when I see trash on the trails.  I often find myself "Doing my Good Turn Daily" by picking up these items and disposing of them when I get home.  

I've always tried to clean up after myself and leave the trail/mountain areas better than when I found them (i.e. reducing human impacts).  

Question is:  How do we encourage such Leave No Trace/Wilderness Ethics in an era of increased outdoor recreation and (sometimes) complete lack of respect for others or for authority?  What have you done?  

I've tried to lead by example...telling and showing my scouts what to do and how to help out.


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## Mike P. (Apr 7, 2005)

My hiking shorts have two pockets in the front, keys in one, the ither is reserved for picking up trail trash.

When I was leading a youth group, we gave a small prize to the student who came out with the most trash

I have found that trails that have mountain bike us on them to be some of the worse with a lot of GU or Power Gel packets.  Because of the size of the package & ease of ingesting it, the gels are very popular with the biking community.

When they first came out in the 90's I remember doing a taste test with them on my first trip up Huntington Ravine.  Taste was okay (chocolate was like frosting which in my case was a good thing) but the amount of energy you got was pretty limited.  Each package only has about 100 calories & when carrying a decent size pack & climbing, 100 does not last very long.

The most popular & easiest peaks to get to (as expected) typically have the most trash.  It would be hard to find much on East Sleeper. :wink:


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## taualum23 (Apr 7, 2005)

You are so right.  I usually carry a small trashbag that I fill up as I go. Cigarette butts (as an ex-smoker who NEVER left a butt in the woods, this really gets me nuts...I mean, crush the coals and put it in your pocket...how hard is that?), gu packets, beer cans.  
Every new person I hike with gets a lead by example LNT tour of my style.  For people with leadership responsibilities (like with the scouts), I think the "contest" is a great idea, as it cleans, and really opens a young person's eyes to the impact we can have in the wilderness.  
Good topic!


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## SilentCal (Apr 7, 2005)

I often hike the southern Metacomet-Mondanock trail sections and always carry a trash bag in the springtime before the leaves come out.  I do this because the summertime foliage often hides that plastic water bottle or beer can.  I often find the most trash under ledges of viewpoints that people carlessly toss their trash from.  Bare Mt. and Mt. Tom are two prime examples.  High population centers next to nice viewpoints are usually the first to be marred from the "Leave no Trace" ethics.
     What can be done?   Sometimes, I get snickers from teenagers that pass by and I'm carrying a full trashbag of junk.  I once had a man offer me five bucks because he thought I was collecting the cans for the deposit.  Some people are just ignorant to the fact that you need to keep a place clean so future users can enjoy the same experience you had.  You can mention to folks this but sometimes it just doesn't register.  
     The Whites are far and away the cleanest trails I've hiked on.  Not to say, you don't see a plastic wrapper now and then, or the toilet paper bombs at times, but the higher mountains tend to attract folks who can understand the ethics behind it better.


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## smitty77 (Apr 8, 2005)

Max and I used to do volunteer trail work on Mt. Monadnock and we've probably seen just about everything.  My pockets would be bulging with wrappers and cigarette butts.  The worst we ever saw was a sanitary napkin laying right in the middle of the trail.

I most cases I believe the Lead By Example philospohy works.  People would thank us for doing it.  We would just stress pack in = pack out, and to try to bring out a little more than what you brought in.

On the other hand, I believe there are some who just don't get it, and won't ever get it.  I've said a couteous hello to people while collecting trash on the lower ledges only to find the same adults discarding candy wrappers and drink boxes on the summit in front of their kids.

Don't get me too wound up on littering.  Our dog just underwent surgery to repair a cut on her paw from broken glass on the roadside, which I thought we had avoided.  5 stitches, big $$$ to the vet, and a wasted week of vacation babysitting an all-outdoor dog that we had to keep inside.  Healing time was 10 days, and she was itching to run by day 3.  Wish I could find the jack@$$ who tossed the bottle from his car...


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## Caleb (Apr 9, 2005)

smitty77 said:
			
		

> Wish I could find the jack@$$ who tossed the bottle from his car...



I came across that jack#@@ in Wyoming. In the
course of my 2002 CDT hike, I found myself walking thru a trail of fresh beer cans. I stopped to pick up every one and then at last i came upon the source: a fat drunken hunter who was out zeroing in his rifle in advance of hunting season. i attempted to return his property to the bed of his pick-up truck, but the fellow didn't appreciate the courtesy and took off after me in his truck. He followed me up a side hill for a few hundred yards until his truck got sandwiched between two trees. I circled above, onto some overhanging rocks, and witnessed his predicament with sweet joy. He was really stuck...stuck-stuck, engine revving and gears clanking. I kept the beer cans but i did give him a solid round of applause and a one finger salute.


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## bigbog (Apr 10, 2005)

"Lead by Example", you've got it Trailboss, I think that's all we can do....and when confronting possible violators, expressing it as a *positive* action, not personalizing it...as to "single them out".  The heavy-duty leaf bag...large enough to simply hang from anything in back of the pack....

Steve


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## cbcbd (Apr 11, 2005)

Caleb said:
			
		

> smitty77 said:
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You are my new hero!








I don't have anyone that I can directly influence but whatever friends I take hiking (and they're not asses anyway), but I just do my part and pack everything out and pick up whatever I see on the trail.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 11, 2005)

cbcbd said:
			
		

> Caleb said:
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WHAT A GREAT STORY!!!


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## MtnMagic (Apr 12, 2005)

> WHAT A GREAT STORY!!!


I second that!!!

I used to call it trail trash and pick it up. Over the years I changed the name to trail treasure. One for positive thoughts in the name And two, some interesting finds do make it treasure.


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## NoodleRod (May 6, 2005)

I have a question in relation to this topic...
Why do the campers that loose food etc. to the resident black bears feel that they do not need to pick up the remains of their food bags that the bears got..? Do they think that the bear is going to do it for them ?? OR maybe an other hungry camper might come along and pick up and use what was left ??
 :roll:  :roll:


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## skizilla (May 6, 2005)

*Fisherman*

I have found that fisherman are the worst litterers. 
I hike and kayak and fish a little and by far and away they are the worst.  Styrofoam bait trays fish line, beer cans, food, you name it.  I really dislike them for it.  I would generallly make an exception for flyfishermen.  But local yocal bait and spin cast guys are the worst.


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## skizilla (May 6, 2005)

*trash location*

I have also noticed that wilderness style or long distance trails are relatively clean so ithink most true hikers are fairly neat and respectful.  Small town parks or short loop hikes and quick overlooks get the worst of ot from kids partying or families and their kids dropping stuff.  
And don't even get me started on how badly people treat swimming holes.  Again younger people partying at them and I say this as a genrality but someone has to go to the inner city and teach minorities and the poor about wilderness ethics.  I live in a relatively urban area and frequent swimming holes quite a bit and notice minorities just don't know to pick up trash or just do not have a respect for public property and the woods.  I  am not a racist and have minority friends and respect them.  But i think it is a legitimate problem in their community that outdoors groups might want to address with education programs or signage in multiple languages if necessary.....Ok I know let the flames begin but I am trying to be honest and constructive here.  Apologoes ahead of time


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## Jaytrek57 (May 6, 2005)

Um.

Why not ask your "minority" friends, who you respect, why the people in their communities are such slobs? I've been to plenty of "suburban" swimming holes, where you could have made a million dollors with all the cans and bottles. 

[/quote]but someone has to go to the inner city and teach minorities and the poor about wilderness ethics





> Just b/c one is a minority living in the "inner city", doesn't make them poor.
> 
> I have worked with inner city kids for over 15 years. Have taken hundreds out into the woods and continue to do so. There are people doing what you propose, but, well, it is a big "inner city" with a plethera of challenges. The exciting thing is, all you have to do is volunteer at any Boys & Girls Club, YMCA or other community based center.
> 
> ...


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## skizilla (May 6, 2005)

*Yeah but what about the fishermen*

I was trying to be consturctive and be real about what i actually witness.  Most of these swimming holes are just out side of cities or in easily accessible rural areas.  And i did admit much of the trash comes from partying high school kids and lazy families who are white or affluent.  I really am being constructive and would like to see more education to these populations who through no fault of thier own lack this social and ecological training.  Oh and cleaning up after yourself is a basic common manners that most cultures around the world appreciate.  Although i was in paris and throwing trash on the ground is common and actually encouraged because that is how the street cleaners keep their jobs they wash and clean many streets twice a day there.
I think towns that have busy swimming holes and parks need to think heavily about providing accessible trash can.s and frequent pickup and cleaning.  Because pack in and pack out is simply not working in many of these locations 

***Fishermen are still worse the worst of the non flyfishermen are still the worst of the group however.


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## pedxing (May 9, 2005)

I often pick up stuff, especially in more remote areas when I am headed back out.  I'm not as zealous about it as some of you seem to be, but I try to do something to compensate for the physical impact.

I agree that it is good to mobilize a little shame when you see someone littering or creating uneccessary damage in violation of rules or basic wilderness principles.  Silence does equal consent often.  When I've pushed my kids to follow certain rules or principles of ettiquette, they've often retorted "well, lot's of people have seen me do that and no one ever complained."

Skizilla:  That's an interesting slogan you've got there. Are you a student of Foucault?


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