# Paying extra $$ for all day VIP lift access?



## drjeff (Dec 18, 2013)

Would you? Say it was an extra $25 on top of your lift ticket or an extra seasonal upgrade fee for your pass, and the VIP lift served all the terrain of the mountain and would operate the full operating hours of the resort that day? If you didn't have either the pass type or paid the daily upgrade fee, you couldn't ride the VIP lift?

Just curious as to people's feelings on this.....

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## dlague (Dec 18, 2013)

If that was the case then I would not go there!  This is a new way to get more $$ out of people who have more disposable cash and omits those who barely can afford it!  Snobbish!  However I would pay a fee to have valet parking!


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## twinplanx (Dec 18, 2013)

There own lift is a bit much... Special liftline privileges, like line cutting might be worth a nominal fee

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## MadMadWorld (Dec 18, 2013)

They should have a Fast Pass type deal like Disney!


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## Smellytele (Dec 18, 2013)

Copper in Co has this for 20 extra you can use the express line.


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## ss20 (Dec 18, 2013)

I always thought of this idea...
Once a month, the mountain charges $30 extra on a midweek day.  The typical skier would be driven away by the 100-120$ ticket (depending on the mountain), while those who do pay get uncrowded lifts, lodges, and slopes.  Season pass holders wouldn't be allowed unless they paid $30.

This "flashpass" would only work at the most crowded of mountains (Watchuset, Smuggs, MRG, Stratton, etc.), where people would be willing to pay $50 to skip the 20 minute+liftlines.  50 bucks sounds steep, but if it was any cheaper too many people would do it and the "general, regular lift ticket" public would get pissed when every other chair is filled with the "flashpass" people.


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## tnt (Dec 18, 2013)

I could see the market for it, but it would really douche up the vibe I would think.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2013)

not a fan of the concept

skiing is exclusive enough of a sport as it is.  

If people want their own private lift, take a midweek day off and you'll essentially have one pretty much everywhere in the Northeast.


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## tnt (Dec 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> not a fan of the concept
> 
> skiing is exclusive enough of a sport as it is.
> 
> If people want their own private lift, take a midweek day off and you'll essentially have one pretty much everywhere in the Northeast.



Yeah, pretty much.

As much as I hate to admit it though, I would pay a bump for an express lane on weekend family trips to over crowded PA mountains where the vibe is already pretty much shot...


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## snoseek (Dec 18, 2013)

Yeah they do this at Copper. I'm not a fan. One of the things I like about skiing is that a group of different people from different walks of life can mingle, ski around the mountain and for just that day it has nothing to do with who has a better career, bigger house ect....this seperates people, a carbon copy of what our society is becoming. No thanks


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## tnt (Dec 18, 2013)

snoseek said:


> Yeah they do this at Copper. I'm not a fan. One of the things I like about skiing is that a group of different people from different walks of life can mingle, ski around the mountain and for just that day it has nothing to do with who has a better career, bigger house ect....this seperates people, a carbon copy of what our society is becoming. No thanks



Yeah, it would really suck rubbing shoulders at the bar after, and you're bitching about the lift line and some douch chuckles and says "you should have coughed up for the VIP pass...."

But really, I'm shocked more places aren't doing this already.

But like DHS said, for tons of places in the NE - at least north of the poconos, it's only an issue a handful of weekends.


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## snoseek (Dec 18, 2013)

I could also see this sorta thing as a perk for high end real estate also. Fact of the matter is if you want to skip lines and are wealthy, like real wealth, then skipping lines is already possible. It's called private lessons and most places do this.


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## yeggous (Dec 18, 2013)

No need. I ski Wildcat.


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## Cannonball (Dec 18, 2013)

Negative.  For the follow three reasons, in this order:
1) if you need to do this you are skiing at a too crowded resort
2) if you can do this you have to much money to burn and should be spending it in more productive ways
3) if you want to do this you are a douche


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2013)

snoseek said:


> One of the things I like about skiing is that a group of different people from different walks of life can mingle, ski around the mountain and for just that day it has nothing to do with who has a better career, bigger house ect....this seperates people, a carbon copy of what our society is becoming. No thanks



100% this.  Couldn't have said it better.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 18, 2013)

I dont think the VIP lift would work (in the east at least) because there's not enough terrain to begin with.  You'd end up hurting your market in a way far larger than the ancillary income the $25 would bring in.

The Flash Pass Disney idea however, I dont have a problem with.  I'm not wealthy enough to pay for it, but if it unlocks an additional revenue stream for the mountain I see nothing wrong with it. Again, however, I think there's a serious risk to alienating more $$$ AWAY from your resort than additional money you'd be bringing IN to your resort via that strategy.  It's one thing for Disney to slightly annoy some people who go there once every 4 to 10 years, it's quite another for a ski resort to do the same to people who go there every 4 to 10 days, etc...


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## RootDKJ (Dec 18, 2013)

Blue Mountain has VIP lines just for their season pass holders.  It's fantastic.


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## abc (Dec 18, 2013)

drjeff said:


> the VIP lift served all the terrain of the mountain


How do you defy geography in order to have one single lift serving all terrain of a mountain? Unless it's a tiny mountain...



> Just curious as to people's feelings on this.....


My feeling is you've had too much to drink!


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## catskills (Dec 18, 2013)

Almost every ski area has VIP express system.   You see it and its right in front of you.  Your just not paying attention.   

If you paid the extra dollars for a ski or snowboard instructor class then you have access to  an express line for instructors and their class.  If you want to pay for individual single instructor class, then you and the instructor can go anywhere and not have to wait in line. Western ski areas with trams let their instructors with their class on the first tram car before the rest of the public, guaranteeing they get first powder tracks in the morning.


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## jaytrem (Dec 19, 2013)

abc said:


> How do you defy geography in order to have one single lift serving all terrain of a mountain? Unless it's a tiny mountain...
> 
> 
> My feeling is you've had too much to drink!



He didn't come up with this question out of thin air.  The Mt Snow GM asked this question on the pass holder site.  Apparently they're seriously considering trying it with the Grand Summit Express.  If it works out on their tests days it could be an every weekend thing next year.

Personally I hate the idea.


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## JDMRoma (Dec 19, 2013)

BWoods has the Alpine club, you get first tracks every morning...they start 30 minutes before everyone else ! Its I think...not 100% sure but 4 or 500 a month club per family but not sure of the details. I only see them while Im waiting for the 8am bell !


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## deadheadskier (Dec 19, 2013)

jaytrem said:


> He didn't come up with this question out of thin air.  The Mt Snow GM asked this question on the pass holder site.  Apparently they're seriously considering trying it with the Grand Summit Express.  If it works out on their tests days it could be an every weekend thing next year.
> .



I wonder what the break even point would be for the mountain to offer this?  How many $25 passes would they need to sell.

How would it effect the line on the 6-pack?  Doesn't Mt. Snow need the additional lift capacity for everyone on the weekends, not just those willing to pay extra?


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## Smellytele (Dec 19, 2013)

With Copper it isn't a separate lift just a separate line for the lift. I actually just bought some VIP tix on line because they were actaully cheaper than any others I could find. I normal ticket there is 114 (which I don't think many pay) but prebuy is 72 on their website (liftopia). For the vip line it cost 30 dollars more and you can up grade any ticket to it. If you stay at Copper the upgrade is free.

http://www.coppercolorado.com/winter/landingpages/secretpass2012


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## hammer (Dec 19, 2013)

Don't like it at theme parks (Disney's system is OK because you don't pay extra for it) and I don't like it at ski areas.  I'd rather see places limit ticket sales for the day.


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## WWF-VT (Dec 19, 2013)

ss20 said:


> I always thought of this idea...
> Once a month, the mountain charges $30 extra on a midweek day.  The typical skier would be driven away by the 100-120$ ticket (depending on the mountain), while those who do pay get uncrowded lifts, lodges, and slopes.  Season pass holders wouldn't be allowed unless they paid $30.



Midweek days at most mountains already have uncrowded lifts, lodges and slopes.  Why pay extra $$?


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## vcunning (Dec 19, 2013)

I've never know DrJeff to over imbibe in the spirits.  OK, maybe I just don't remember.



abc said:


> My feeling is you've had too much to drink!


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## farlep99 (Dec 19, 2013)

The lineless, easy-ride up will do nothing to solve the clusterf*ck, sh!tshow on the way down


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## Tin (Dec 19, 2013)

My issue with skiing is that it is an exclusive, privileged, white sport, this would only add to it. I can see Stratton doing something like this as well. I would avoid any resort that did it.


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## Smellytele (Dec 19, 2013)

farlep99 said:


> The lineless, easy-ride up will do nothing to solve the clusterf*ck, sh!tshow on the way down



Well if you knew how to ski the mountain you wouldn't have that problem. :lol: Just thought I would write that before DR J 8)


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## Tin (Dec 19, 2013)

hammer said:


> Don't like it at theme parks (Disney's system is OK because you don't pay extra for it) and I don't like it at ski areas.  I'd rather see places limit ticket sales for the day.



Would be great but I doubt the difference in insurance costs (if any) would make it worth while. Has there been a law suit yet for someone getting injured by another skier/rider and suing the area for negligence for allowing too many people?


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## bobbutts (Dec 19, 2013)

The flash pass thing pissed me off at Six Flags this summer
makes the regular people line longer, it's also insulting to ask for even more when you've already paid quite a bit

I'd just avoid going to a ski area that had this on a day where this is necessary.

Too bad for the recreation industry that nobody goes Sun-Fri and everybody comes on Sat.  Mt Snow does unlimited 2-1's weekdays with a rideandski card, so clearly they have weekday capacity to spare.  It's a hard question, limiting sales is an option too, but then you run the risk of losing the impulse customer who doesn't go or is turned away.  The bonus is there is less overcrowding on trails and lodges.  Doing the VIP pass does nothing to help with that.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 19, 2013)

Do you get hookers to visit the lifts with VIP that what I use VIP for .


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## Domeskier (Dec 19, 2013)

catskills said:


> If you want to pay for individual single instructor class, then you and the instructor can go anywhere and not have to wait in line.



But then you have to ride the lift with the help...


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## mlkrgr (Dec 19, 2013)

Wouldn't like to see this, but if it happens, express pass sales should be limited so that no more than 10% of the capacity is filled by express riders. Else people will get annoyed. 

Interesting thing I'm seeing lately is that Waterville has been really reeling in their discounts. I haven't seen a comp ticket out there (they were at the mall last year; also 99 amongst other places), and only day ticket discount I've seen announced is the Pats Tuesday. Otherwise, word is that the place is empty midweek since the $43 Mondays and Fridays are gone and the $43 w/ a Dunkin receipt on Wednesday, and $49 lift and lunch on Thursdays. Now, even with comps and discounts, they do well filling most chairs on Sunnyside and White Peaks. I can see this on Sundays to eliminate comps and bump up pricing as lines were around 15 minutes. So I guess this all got replaced by a frequent skier card that costs $95, includes a free day, and takes 3 days to break even on due to the $20-30 price premium over a window price, and a $15/day discount.


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## tnt (Dec 19, 2013)

bobbutts said:


> The flash pass thing pissed me off at Six Flags this summer
> makes the regular people line longer, it's also insulting to ask for even more when you've already paid quite a bit
> 
> I'd just avoid going to a ski area that had this on a day where this is necessary.
> ...



Work obviously is always a hassle to most.  But I could do  better job at shuffling and rescheduling, and just flat out re-prioritizing to get out there on weekdays and really enjoy the the quiet.  But it's almost harder to get the kids out of school anymore.  Between school work and activities…. I don't know, maybe not for everyone, but that's how we feel.

Gonna try a few times this jan and feb though.  Life's to short not enjoy a few weekdays on an uncrowded mountain….


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## andrec10 (Dec 19, 2013)

I just joined the adult race group and we get to cut most lines...except for the Flyer.


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## makimono (Dec 19, 2013)




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## C-Rex (Dec 19, 2013)

Domeskier said:


> But then you have to ride the lift with the help...



Haha!

I could care less about special lift privileges, I'd rather be able to pay extra to get fresh tracks on a pow day.  As in, they leave a few trails closed until noon except for those who pay a fee to access them.  Then at noon, they open it up to the general crowd.


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 19, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> 2) if you can do this you have to much money to burn and should be spending it in more productive ways



In all fairness, I think the general publics conception of skiing is that only those with money to burn participate in the sport to begin with. 



catskills said:


> Western ski areas with trams let their  instructors with their class on the first tram car before the rest of  the public, guaranteeing they get first powder tracks in the  morning.



Winter Park doesn't have a tram but they do it too.



Tin said:


> My issue with skiing is that it is an exclusive, privileged, white sport, this would only add to it. I can see Stratton doing something like this as well. I would avoid any resort that did it.



Stratton already does that, or at least did, according to this article from 2005. Only $50,000! http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/18/travel/18club.html?pagewanted=print&position=&_r=0



			
				NY Times said:
			
		

> Then there is the prized perk available only to Mr. Richter and his  fellow members of the Stratton Mountain Club. "Go to the immediate  left," Mr. Richter said, as he and his girlfriend glided down to the  Ursa Express lift, which had grown to nine cattle lines by midmorning.  He flashed a white plastic card and immediately went to the front of the  line.



I got a "flash pass" for six flags once on a PACKED Saturday. There were probably 500-600 people in main line for the superman coaster, and 20-30 people in the "flash pass" line.  They alternated taking a whole group from the main line for one coaster train, and one group from the flash pass line for the next train. Since it was so crowded, the flash pass line filled up the entire train, which effectively doubled the wait time for the main line. There were people yelling at the lift attendants about how much BS that was and that they had paid to get into the park as well. I couldn't agree with them more, and yes, I did feel like a total douche


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## gmcunni (Dec 19, 2013)

I think Okemo offers this


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## Euler (Dec 19, 2013)

Ahhh, the life of the 1%...


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## drjeff (Dec 19, 2013)

Euler said:


> Ahhh, the life of the 1%...



Nah, the 1% these days either go to Stowe or pony up the current 45k, about to be 60k come January 1st for initiation fees for The Hermitage Club 

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## BenedictGomez (Dec 19, 2013)

Tin said:


> *My issue with skiing is that it is a*n exclusive, privileged, *white sport*, this would only add to it.



How in the name of god did you manage to inject "race" into this?    

Also, FWIW, despite how many times you hear this repeated ad nauseum, skiing really isnt _THAT_ exclusive or _THAT_ expensive of a hobby if you have a modicum of shopping skills (some intellect helps too).


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## C-Rex (Dec 19, 2013)

I think this would be a mistake for a place like Mt. Snow.  If they want to offer exclusivity then they should buy back Haystack and make it a high end, limited occupancy, club-style resort.  But then, there probably isn't enough demand for that to offset the cost of running an entire other resort.

I'd rather see an express line for pass holders or people who bought tickets more than a certain number of times the previous season.  Make them earn it with loyalty, not just buying a privilege.


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## Euler (Dec 20, 2013)

It would really irritate me and furthur push me to ski more often at little places like Bromley and Magic.  Mount Snow has it's charms, but obnoxious, entitled people pushing me out of the way with their $$ wouldn't be among them.


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## jack97 (Dec 20, 2013)

Euler said:


> It would really irritate me and furthur push me to ski more often at little places like Bromley and Magic.  Mount Snow has it's charms, but obnoxious, entitled people pushing me out of the way with their $$ wouldn't be among them.




I have, been skiing small areas for the last two seasons. Lots of places I used to go has turned me off b/c the try to cater to the entitled.


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## ScottySkis (Dec 20, 2013)

jack97 said:


> I have, been skiing small areas for the last two seasons. Lots of places I used to go has turned me off b/c the try to cater to the entitled.



You will not see that at Platty.


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## gmcunni (Dec 20, 2013)

if it was only $5 to cut the line, would you do it?  on a powder day?


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> I think this would be a mistake for a place like Mt. Snow.  If they want to offer exclusivity then they should buy back Haystack and make it a high end, limited occupancy, club-style resort.  But then, there probably isn't enough demand for that to offset the cost of running an entire other resort.
> 
> I'd rather see an express line for pass holders or people who bought tickets more than a certain number of times the previous season.  Make them earn it with loyalty, not just buying a privilege.



If anybody wanted to buy back Haystack(The Hermitage Club) now, given what Mr. Barnes has already invested in it, and the membership base of around 200 families (and growing) currently, I'm guessing that would be around a $75 to $100 million dollar buy back (word on the street is he's already spent well North of $50 million on the entire property between the ski area, the Inn, the golf course, the new base lodge under construction and the air strip) with another 30 to 50 million planned over the next 5 to 10 years.  While the adage "everything has it's price" likely applies, what it would take to buy The Hermitage Club now is far greater than the 5 million the ski area sold for and far more $$ than it would be worth to see any appreciable return on investment with, especially given that Mount Snow is looking at a major snowmaking project in the very near future with a price tag comfortably into 8 figures


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> if it was only $5 to cut the line, would you do it?  on a powder day?



If that privilege was included with your season pass, would that potentially make you take a look at getting a season pass there?


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## C-Rex (Dec 20, 2013)

Oh, I didn't realize that was the Hermitage club.


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## hammer (Dec 20, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Also, FWIW, despite how many times you hear this repeated ad nauseum, skiing really isnt _THAT_ exclusive or _THAT_ expensive of a hobby if you have a modicum of shopping skills (some intellect helps too).


Whenever I hear mentions of skiing cost from my family, I either ask my brother how much he pays for playing golf or my sister how much she pays for their boat.

The key to keeping skiing affordable is to look for discounts.  Only time you spend too much is when you buy unnecessary equipment or pay rack rates.


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Oh, I didn't realize that was the Hermitage club.



Yup, Haystack ='s The Hermitage Club

My guess is that it's now a 99.9999999999% certainty that ski trails and lifts will never connect Mount Snow and Haystack, unless of course Mr Barnes wanted to buy Mount Snow from Peak Resorts and extend the trail network North from The Hermitage Club to Mount Snow. As weird as it sounds, that's probably the more likely scenario if they ever were to connect, and even then I'd put the odds of that happening at 0.00000000001%


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## Smellytele (Dec 20, 2013)

drjeff said:


> If that privilege was included with your season pass, would that potentially make you take a look at getting a season pass there?



No it would make me not want to make day trips there.


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## jaytrem (Dec 20, 2013)

drjeff said:


> Yup, Haystack ='s The Hermitage Club
> 
> My guess is that it's now a 99.9999999999% certainty that ski trails and lifts will never connect Mount Snow and Haystack, unless of course Mr Barnes wanted to buy Mount Snow from Peak Resorts and extend the trail network North from The Hermitage Club to Mount Snow. As weird as it sounds, that's probably the more likely scenario if they ever were to connect, and even then I'd put the odds of that happening at 0.00000000001%



So you're saying there's a chance!!!


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2013)

jaytrem said:


> So you're saying there's a chance!!!



I've been told that one should never say never! :lol: Although in this case, it's mighty. mighty, mighty close to never given all current scenarios!


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## HD333 (Dec 20, 2013)

drjeff said:


> If that privilege was included with your season pass, would that potentially make you take a look at getting a season pass there?



If it was on all passes the season pass only line would be longer than the other lines.  If for some extra $ you could opt in for a pass with that privilege, maybe, depends on the $ and the mountain. The extra $ would need to make it worthwhile, it couldn't be diluted.

I think it would come down to pricing it so not everyone can/will take advantage of it but not so high that only the 1% would consider it. For that matter add $x to a day pass and you can buy the privilege too, just need to find the sweet spot for the $ amount to make it worthwhile for those that opt in, I'd be pissed if I ponied up a bunch of $ and then my "special" line was longer then the regular line.

I would foresee an uptick of douchbaggery in the liftlines if something like this was put in place at most places.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> No it would make me not want to make day trips there.



A resort offering this might not make me not want to make a day trip there, but it could potentially prevent me from returning.   If I showed up at Mt. Snow on the weekend and the line at the Bluebird was insane, but the HSQ was ski on for the privileged, I'd be pissed.  I'd want the the extra lift capacity spread out to ease the waiting for everyone.

I could maybe see them offering it on say the Ego Alley lift and not get upset about it or say one of the Northface lifts, but to have 1 of the only 2 base to summit lifts be dedicated to the privileged, yeah a bit snobby to me.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2013)

I like Sugaloaf's "privilege product" with their first tracks program.  On Sundays only, you get the mountain to yourself for an hour.  Having enjoyed First Tracks at the AZ summit, it's pretty sweet.  I think that's the better way of offering something special to those willing to pay for it without pissing off the rest of your customers.


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## twinplanx (Dec 20, 2013)

Is it safe to say that most places open earlier for pass holders? I think it's not much of an issue because the day trippers don't really notice.  Seems like a nice perk on those days when it counts  

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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> Is it safe to say that most places open earlier for pass holders? I think it's not much of an issue because the day trippers don't really notice.  Seems like a nice perk on those days when it counts
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk



Mount Snow runs the Bluebird Express on Saturdays from early January through mid march from 7:30 until 8AM for season passholders. They also do some Sunday AM's from 7:30 until 8 for residents of certain developments once a season


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 20, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> If I showed up at Mt. Snow on the weekend and the line at the Bluebird was insane, but the HSQ was ski on for the privileged, I'd be pissed.  I'd want the the extra lift capacity spread out to ease the waiting for everyone.



I couldn't do that, I'd feel like a complete douche with a "let them eat cake" mentality


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## mister moose (Dec 20, 2013)

drjeff said:


> If anybody wanted to buy back Haystack(The Hermitage Club) now, given what Mr. Barnes has already invested in it, and the membership base of around 200 families (and growing) currently, I'm guessing that would be around a $75 to $100 million dollar buy back (word on the street is he's already spent well North of $50 million on the entire property between the ski area, the Inn, the golf course, the new base lodge under construction and the air strip) with another 30 to 50 million planned over the next 5 to 10 years. While the adage "everything has it's price" likely applies, what it would take to buy The Hermitage Club now is far greater than the 5 million the ski area sold for and far more $$ than it would be worth to see any appreciable return on investment with, especially given that Mount Snow is looking at a major snowmaking project in the very near future with a price tag comfortably into 8 figures



You realize what you just said is that no owner, Mt Snow or otherwise , can recover the investment to date in Haystack.


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2013)

mister moose said:


> You realize what you just said is that no owner, Mt Snow or otherwise , can recover the investment to date in Haystack.



Yup. I'm quite skeptical that the amount real estate that would need to be sold to recoup the investment can be done.

I no longer am skeptical that they can attract enough members to cover their annual operating expenses though

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## mister moose (Dec 20, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Haha!
> 
> I could care less about special lift privileges, I'd rather be able to pay extra to get fresh tracks on a pow day. As in, they leave a few trails closed until noon except for those who pay a fee to access them. Then at noon, they open it up to the general crowd.





gmcunni said:


> if it was only $5 to cut the line, would you do it? on a powder day?



Really?  $5???  On a good powder day, I guarantee you everyone in the line at 8am that got up early, re-arranged their whole day (and on a weekday called in sick/late) just to get fresh tracks would pay WAY more than $5.  There are so few true powder days in the east.  I think you'd need to be north of $100 extra to thin the line down, and even then you'd have no shortage of takers.

I think you all have missed all the opportunities this kind of thinking offers.  Just imagine:

Roped off tables section in the lodge that have more room.  For a large fee you get an all day reserved table, no need to squeeze in with (ugh) strangers or cruise the aisles tray in hand looking for a seat.  

Resorts that have gondolas can put on 7 or 8 VIP cars on the line that have mini-bars stocked with wine and cheese, caviar, smoked salmon on crackers,  and other goodies,  and a hostess.  Special lift line, of course.  On a lift with a 7 minute ride time, one will be along every 2-3 minutes.

Roped off trails with bouncers.  Corduroy until noon!!!

VIP rest rooms, complete with hot towels and constant cleaning.

Legal Aides.  A personal injury lawyer that skis with you all day, ready to take the name and address of anyone that runs into you, cuts you off, or uses foul language.

The "Spread-out pass".  This entitles you to have a chair or cabin all to yourself, no others allowed, even on the most crowded day.

The "Facebook package"  A camera crew follows you around with 3 video cameras, a boom mike, and lighting director.  At the end of your day you get an edited down video to post to Facebook of how awesome your day was, including the adoring faces of all the people in the line that you cut.

Baggage fees.  Carry on baggage is now limited to just skis and boards.  Any backpacks, camels, belt packs, cameras, or other items will be charged on a per trip basis.

Of course, a lift ticket would now have to read a "Lift sometimes", or a "Lift on a delayed basis" ticket.


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## MEtoVTSkier (Dec 20, 2013)

mister moose said:


> Really?  $5???  On a good powder day, I guarantee you everyone in the line at 8am that got up early, re-arranged their whole day (and on a weekday called in sick/late) just to get fresh tracks would pay WAY more than $5.  There are so few true powder days in the east.  I think you'd need to be north of $100 extra to thin the line down, and even then you'd have no shortage of takers.
> 
> I think you all have missed all the opportunities this kind of thinking offers.  Just imagine:
> 
> ...



Wow all that for just an extra Benjamin? Sign me up!


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 20, 2013)

hammer said:


> *Whenever I hear mentions of skiing cost from my family, I either ask my brother how much he pays for playing golf or my sister how much she pays for their boat.*
> *
> The key to keeping skiing affordable is to look for discounts.  Only time you spend too much is when you buy unnecessary equipment or pay rack rates.*



Precisely.   As I said, if you're not lazy, and not a dope, skiing is not THAT expensive, and I'd hardly call it a "sport of priveldge" like Tin did.  It's not Polo for god's sake.  

I pay very little to ski, but then, I'm not a lazy doofus who pays Saturday full price 12 times a season.


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## mister moose (Dec 20, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'd hardly call it a "sport of priveldge" like Tin did. It's not Polo for god's sake.



LOL. You stumbled into another stereotype. While polo is much more rare than skiing, it is identical in the varying cost of entry. Sure, you can be the gazillionaire Palm Beach player, but you can also be the backyard league player on a budget. I'll bet the cost of owning two horses, feed, hay, a backyard barn, and a trailer isn't too different than a ski house, skis and season pass. Might even be less, depending on the horses. And you can play year round. There used to be a team at Sugarbush. What it does take is tons more dedication. (If you do it yourself) The horses have to eat every day. Turned out every day. Stalls have to be cleaned every day. Your house purchase is based on the barn. That is likely the reason more people don't do it.

I'd say formula car racing, Americas Cup racing, or the unlimited Reno air racing would be more " a sport of priviledge".  You can't buy or maintain those vehicles on the cheap.  The most expensive sport on earth:  Isn't on earth.  Space tourism.


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## Cannonball (Dec 21, 2013)

hammer said:


> Whenever I hear mentions of skiing cost from my family, I either ask my brother how much he pays for playing golf or my sister how much she pays for their boat.



Comparing skiing to golf and boating (and polo) isn't really a strong case for it being affordable.  I think when people say that skiing is expensive they are putting it in the context of things like paying for housing, heat, food, medical care, raising children....


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## Mildcat (Dec 21, 2013)

jaytrem said:


> So you're saying there's a chance!!!


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## jack97 (Dec 21, 2013)

mister moose said:


> ..... While polo is much more rare than skiing, it is identical in the varying cost of entry.....



I thought that was the crux of the arguments..... by having a vip lift access the cost of skiing would go higher. We already have exclusive areas like yellow ski club and now hermitage. We have ski in and out condos. We have skis that msrp for over $1K. Boots and soft goods approaching the $1k mark. 

IMO... anything that keeps the douchbaggery off the slopes is good.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 21, 2013)

jack97 said:


> I thought that was the crux of the arguments..... by having a vip lift access the cost of skiing would go higher. We already have exclusive areas like yellow ski club and now hermitage. We have ski in and out condos. We have skis that msrp for over $1K. Boots and soft goods approaching the $1k mark.
> 
> IMO... anything that keeps the douchbaggery off the slopes is good.



I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to imply.  Are you saying low income = douchbaggery?  I wouldn't think so knowing you, but someone else might.


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## jack97 (Dec 21, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to imply.  Are you saying low income = douchbaggery?  I wouldn't think so knowing you, but someone else might.



hmmm... your'e spot on dh, maybe I need more coffee before posting in the morning. I meant the following.

entitlement = douchbaggery
entitlement due to wealth = douchbaggery x 10


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## AdironRider (Dec 21, 2013)

jack97 said:


> hmmm... your'e spot on dh, maybe I need more coffee before posting in the morning. I meant the following.
> 
> entitlement = douchbaggery
> entitlement due to wealth = douchbaggery x 10



Since they are conceivably paying extra for the privilege to cut lines, there's really no entitlement whatsoever.


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## Smellytele (Dec 21, 2013)

Jealousy  is both reasonable and belongs to reasonable men, while envy is base  and belongs to the base, for the one makes himself get good things by  jealousy, while the other does not allow his neighbor to have them  through envy.
 Aristotle ​


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## jack97 (Dec 21, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Jealousy  is both reasonable and belongs to reasonable men, while envy is base  and belongs to the base, for the one makes himself get good things by  jealousy, while the other does not allow his neighbor to have them  through envy.
> Aristotle ​




haha... using culture to justify a free market valued base scheme. no worries, i make enuf  where i can swing a pay extra deal. i choose not to do so for many reasons.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 22, 2013)

mister moose said:


> You stumbled into another stereotype.* While polo is much more rare than skiing, it is identical in the varying cost of entry. *Sure, you can be the gazillionaire Palm Beach player, but you can also be the backyard league player on a budget. *I'll bet the cost of owning two horses, feed, hay, a backyard barn, and a trailer isn't too different than a ski house, skis and season pass. Might even be less,*



I was born, raised, and still currently live in horse country.  

You cannot drive more than 5 minutes around here in any direction you choose without stumbling upon a horse farm.

And I assure you, you're more incorrect than you could imagine.  In fact, I am certain you dont even know what it costs to FEED a SINGLE horse for one month, let alone an entire stable of polo ponies for a year.


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## Skimaine (Dec 22, 2013)

mister moose said:


> . . . Just imagine:
> 
> Roped off tables section in the lodge that have more room.  For a large fee you get an all day reserved table, no need to squeeze in with (ugh) strangers or cruise the aisles tray in hand looking for a seat.  .  .



This already exists at the River. You can rent the exclusive Ski Suite.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 22, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Jealousy  is both reasonable and belongs to reasonable men, while envy is base  and belongs to the base, for the one makes himself get good things by  jealousy, while the other does not allow his neighbor to have them  through envy.
> Aristotle ​



Those are extremely wise, and very true words.

Aristotle was smart and stuff.

I'd take it a step further, and note that generally those who "hate" those who have more than them are weak people, typically in both mind and effort.


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## mister moose (Dec 22, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> I was born, raised, and still currently live in horse country.
> 
> You cannot drive more than 5 minutes around here in any direction you choose without stumbling upon a horse farm.
> 
> And I assure you, you're more incorrect than you could imagine. In fact, I am certain you dont even know what it costs to FEED a SINGLE horse for one month, let alone an entire stable of polo ponies for a year.



Then you would be completely wrong. A couple flakes of hay and a couple quarts of grain twice a day. Not that much cost. 

My Dad was a horse nut. We had horses for 24 years. I know what it costs, because I trucked in the hay, I carried in the grain, and I fed the horses. And I didn't say an entire stable, I said 2 horses, which is being generous. You can play polo on one horse if you only want to play one chukker and then let the horse rest, while another team member takes your position.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 22, 2013)

Does this mean I can cut lift lines if I'm riding a polo horse?


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## skiNEwhere (Dec 22, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Does this mean I can cut lift lines if I'm riding a polo horse?



Why would you do that? You could just ride the horse to the summit a lot faster than a HSQ could take you up there


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## DPhelan (Dec 23, 2013)

what is the additional cost per ticket, per day for the upgrade at 6 flags/disney?

you can do it for free by buying a red jacket and sewing white patches on the front/back of it.  strap a walkie talkie and some surgical tape to a carabiner to really seal the deal.


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## Smellytele (Dec 23, 2013)

DPhelan said:


> what is the additional cost per ticket, per day for the upgrade at 6 flags/disney?
> 
> you can do it for free by buying a red jacket and sewing white patches on the front/back of it.  strap a walkie talkie and some surgical tape to a carabiner to really seal the deal.



Disney is free - but there is some rules and it takes some work to make it work for you.


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## bigbog (Dec 23, 2013)

twinplanx said:


> There own lift is a bit much... Special liftline privileges, like line cutting might be worth a nominal fee...



HA!
That might result in a true description of the phrase _aggressive intermediate_ in line. 
Liftline videos might begin making YouTube..


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## jaytrem (Dec 23, 2013)

DPhelan said:


> what is the additional cost per ticket, per day for the upgrade at 6 flags/disney?



For Six Flags they have 3 different levels (see details below).  It now looks like there is no discount for addition people per "flash pass".  At one time there was, so it was a much better deal to have 4 people rather than 1.  Here are the current numbers for Six Flag Magic Mountain in California..

1 Person  Reg = $40  Gold = $65 Platinum = $95
[h=4]*With three speeds to choose from, you don’t have to wait in line!*[/h]With THE FLASH Pass Platinum your reservation reduces wait time by up to 90% plus you can enjoy selected rides TWICE IN A ROW without leaving your seat!
With THE FLASH Pass Gold your reservation will reduce wait time by up to 50%.
With THE FLASH Pass Regular your reservation time will be equal to the current wait time, you just don’t have to physically stand in line. THE FLASH Pass lets you spend less time waiting and more time having fun!


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## Cannonball (Dec 24, 2013)

Can we get a sticky going for "Polo on the Cheap"?  It's off season, but it always helps to plan ahead.

http://www.nptpolo.com/about-newport-polo/lessons/brochure


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 24, 2013)

mister moose said:


> Then you would be completely wrong. A couple flakes of hay and a couple quarts of grain twice a day. Not that much cost.
> 
> My Dad was a horse nut. We had horses for 24 years. I know what it costs, because I trucked in the hay, I carried in the grain, and I fed the horses. And I didn't say an entire stable, I said 2 horses, which is being generous. You can play polo on one horse if you only want to play one chukker and then let the horse rest, while another team member takes your position.



Just admit you're wrong and move on.  It was a ridiculous statement.   

_Hey man, can I "bum" a horse off you for the next chucker, I'm kindof tapped out this month?   I can only afford to play like half of this match._

*Said Nobody EVER.*



steamboat1 said:


> Does this mean I can cut lift lines if I'm riding a polo horse?



Assuming he can still stand from the skinflint feeding.


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## Edd (Dec 25, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Can we get a sticky going for "Polo on the Cheap"?  It's off season, but it always helps to plan ahead.
> 
> http://www.nptpolo.com/about-newport-polo/lessons/brochure



I award you points for the funny.


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## mister moose (Dec 26, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> Just admit you're wrong and move on. It was a ridiculous statement.
> 
> _Hey man, can I "bum" a horse off you for the next chucker, I'm kindof tapped out this month? I can only afford to play like half of this match._
> 
> ...



Your reading comprehension is approaching abysmal. I personally know of several instances where a horse owner elected to play polo owning only one horse, and the team welcomed him and played him in games. No one ever said you have to go begging for more horses, or that you even have to play the whole game. 

Shallowbrook Stables in Somers CT (A long ways from Newport) for years was a big polo barn, and many area horse people were introduced to the sport through their passion for horses and polo. One of those people that learned to play polo was Brad Davis of WDRC, a DJ turned personality talk show host, who promoted Shallowbrook occasionally on the air. I don't know what Davis's salary is/was, but I'm pretty sure it pales in comparison to the Newport summer home set. I've never seen local AM DJ on any high earning career list.  Brad got started, like a lot of people did, not owning a horse, but using one of Shallowbrook's.  It was time share at it's earliest, you only paid for the brief time you used the horse, and many people used that horse over the course of any month.  

Again, polo is played at both struggling local fields by folks that do all their own work, and royal castle lawns by folks that have huge staff to do the work and huge stables with professional trainers. The cost of admission varies widely just like skiing. That was my point, and I stand by it. I'll point out that on the Newport Polo website link a few posts back you can rent a horse for a chukker for $75. That has got to be the best deal on the planet. For the same price as a walk up ski ticket, you get to play one of the greatest games in the world. It takes the skill of tennis, the blocking of football and the stick work of hockey, and plays them on a 900 foot field at speeds over 30 mph. You must form a synergistic team of you and the horse, neither can be effective without the other. 

The polo I know starts at 7am, when you feed the horses. Then you eat breakfast, pack your gear and hook the truck to the trailer. Pack and check all the tack. Bandage the horses legs, and play the lets-go-in-the-trailer game. Drive an hour to the field. Unload and groom the horses. Eat lunch. Tack up the horses. A little bit of warm-up, and the game starts. 4 chukkers later, walk the horses, wash off the sweat, walk the horses until dry. Tailgate dinner with everyone, load up, drive home, unpack, clean tack. So to play 4 chukkers (or less) takes a whole day of effort. $75/chukker to stroll up and play AT NEWPORT with none of the support work looks like a pretty good deal to me.

The fact that your stated experience consists of driving by horse farms, and your callous interpretation of 'a few flakes of hay' leads me to believe you're just trolling, and still treading on stereotypes. 

I'm guessing you don't know the difference between the cost of boarding a horse at a stable and owning your own backyard shed barn, or the difference between a bale of hay bought in the field by the truckload vs the single bale at the feed store.


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## herlich (Dec 26, 2013)

I would stop going to any resort that started doing this!


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## AdironRider (Dec 26, 2013)

Gotta love the clowns who think because something was attainable 30 years ago, automatically means it is now. 

Hay has gotten quite expensive recently. Up 62% this year alone in my neck of the woods.

And like the folks at Myopia Hunt club are going to let you borrow a horse. 

Just the vet bills alone will cost more than an average families entire spend on skiing. Benedict is right in this case.


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## Edd (Dec 26, 2013)

Don't get these guys started on the price of hay.


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## steamboat1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Edd said:


> Don't get these guys started on the price of hay.



You made me laugh, thanks.


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## mister moose (Dec 31, 2013)

To close out this thread (maybe) I thought I'd add a little local flavor for CT folks:

As you exit I-84 at Rte 4 in Farmington next time, watch on the right after the first light.  You'll see a green state sign that says

"Col Everett Kandarian Memorial Highway"

"Kandy" was a Colonel in the Governor's Horseguard, a vestige from the past but still a completely legitimate arm of the military.  He worked as a jet engine inspector at Pratt & Whitney.  His 15 minutes of fame was riding his horse for the Bicentenial from Philidelphia to Hartford carrying a copy of the Declaration of Independence, reinacting the post rider of 1776.  The photo of him crossing the GW Bridge on horseback made all the papers.  He was active in the horse guard for decades, and..... he played polo.  He was a regular guy working a regular job with a lifetime avocation for horses.

[Paul Harvey] And now you know the rest of the story. [/Paul Harvey]


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## mlkrgr (Dec 31, 2013)

I do think demand pricing for holiday weeks makes sense. Though, you already see that somewhat through how Sunday River prices ski and stay vacations; prices vary week by week and can differ any given week between midweek and weekend. It essentially keeps the slopes open and enjoyable for those who want to pay. Same thing happens at Liftopia. Some ski resorts don't welcome groups during holiday periods as well according to ski bus group managers I've talked with. Bus group pricing goes up that much at Mt Snow in particular that bus groups would have to raise their tix prices by $20; its not more than a few bucks at most resorts which most will eat themselves.


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## tnt (Jan 1, 2014)

At stratton I saw a few lifts had "Bear Tracks" (or something like that) access lanes.  I think they have a club house there, and I assume those lanes are for members of the club.


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## tnt (Jan 1, 2014)

What about caps on attendance?  Would you pay a little more for a lift ticket if you knew the mountain was only going to sell an amount that results in short lines?


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## steamboat1 (Jan 1, 2014)

tnt said:


> What about caps on attendance?  Would you pay a little more for a lift ticket if you knew the mountain was only going to sell an amount that results in short lines?



I believe Deer Valley has a cap on ticket sales, at least they used to. For some reason I think there were other mountains that did also but I can't remember which ones.


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 1, 2014)

tnt said:


> What about caps on attendance?  Would you pay a little more for a lift ticket if you knew the mountain was only going to sell an amount that results in short lines?



Deer valley caps attendance, and if it keeps the resorts getting crowded like Breckenridge on a Saturday, I'd pay a little extra


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## gmcunni (Jan 1, 2014)

tnt said:


> At stratton I saw a few lifts had "Bear Tracks" (or something like that) access lanes.  I think they have a club house there, and I assume those lanes are for members of the club.



apparently so - 

Speed Bear Program
• This program allows Club members that have selected this dues
option direct lift-line access at the primary Stratton Mountain lifts
as stated in the Speed Bear Contract. One Speed Bear Pass
admits only one person. Additional people require multiple
Speed Bear passes. We ask our members to be courteous to
other Stratton skiers when using this privilege.


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## Smellytele (Jan 1, 2014)

Some people in this thread will no longer ski at Stratton now


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## SkiBud (Jan 1, 2014)

mlkrgr said:


> I do think demand pricing for holiday weeks makes sense. Though, you already see that somewhat through how Sunday River prices ski and stay vacations; prices vary week by week and can differ any given week between midweek and weekend. It essentially keeps the slopes open and enjoyable for those who want to pay. Same thing happens at Liftopia. Some ski resorts don't welcome groups during holiday periods as well according to ski bus group managers I've talked with. Bus group pricing goes up that much at Mt Snow in particular that bus groups would have to raise their tix prices by $20; its not more than a few bucks at most resorts which most will eat themselves.



Sunday River also sells a Sliver pass that isn't valid on peek days, which helps greatly with the crowds. 

For all of you concerned about lines, come to Sunday River, even on the busiest of days most lines are less than 5 minutes, and you can always find a mountain with no lift lines or less than a minute. :wink:


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## skiNEwhere (Jan 1, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> Stratton already does that, or at least did, according to this article from 2005. Only $50,000! http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/18/travel/18club.html?pagewanted=print&position=&_r=0



I mentioned strattons club which allows you to cut lines a little earlier in this thread. You better start saving now


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## gmcunni (Jan 1, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Some people in this thread will no longer ski at Stratton now



i think statton was already #2 on the " we won't ski there list" behind Okemo for many on this board.


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 1, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> * the " we won't ski there list"*



One of the few ski resort lists I've never seen. 

Such potential.


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## steamboat1 (Jan 2, 2014)

Smellytele said:


> Some people in this thread will no longer ski at Stratton now



Yes but in my case it has nothing to do with lift lines or the difficulty of the mountain.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 25, 2014)

http://www.killington.com/site/tickets/winter_passes/befast_pass


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## deadheadskier (Nov 25, 2014)

Booo..........

but, I bet they sell out.


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## Smellytele (Nov 25, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Booo..........
> 
> but, I bet they sell out.



+1


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## boofenstien (Nov 25, 2014)

Didn't think getting stuck in line at Skye Peak Express could get any worse....


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## joshua segal (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm sure you are aware that many ski instructors have weekly clients who hire them for the entire day for the soul purpose of jumping the lift line.  It's these instructors who should be complaining most about this


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## Edd (Nov 25, 2014)

What the hell, I guess. Can't really fault them.


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## drjeff (Nov 25, 2014)

Why not??  And if you've been to essentially any amusement park the last few years, you know that they've been doing the same thing, and lots of people are partaking in it


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 25, 2014)

Will Killington actually enforce it properly is the question?  

 I say that given the rampant abuse that occurs via selfish and rude people (usually teens to 25 year olds) in the "singles" line at most mountains.


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## skiur (Nov 26, 2014)

I do not like the idea, and it is only for season pass holders so someone coming up and paying $92.00 at the window does not even have the option.  There is a poll about it on kzone and it has  49 people against it vs only 2 people for it.  Wont really affect me as I stay the hell away from those lifts on a peak day but I still dont like it.


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## dlague (Nov 26, 2014)

This is a lesson on how to make a season pass cost more by adding options.  I think if you are a season pass holder and did not have a problem with season pass prices then for the pass holder it is a not brainer  I never ski there enough to warrant a season pass therefore not an option, but as a lift ticket holder that sucks big time.

I like the way they put it 





> does not provide line cutting privileges


OK then what is it?  A separate lift line that gets to people on the lift faster without getting in front of those in the other lift line!


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## steamboat1 (Nov 26, 2014)

Unlimited passes at K get $100 free Beast Bucks. Apply that to the cost of the upgrade & it actually only costs $99 + tax.


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## drjeff (Nov 26, 2014)

dlague said:


> This is a lesson on how to make a season pass cost more by adding options.  I think if you are a season pass holder and did not have a problem with season pass prices then for the pass holder it is a not brainer  I never ski there enough to warrant a season pass therefore not an option, but as a lift ticket holder that sucks big time.
> 
> I like the way they put it OK then what is it?  A separate lift line that gets to people on the lift faster without getting in front of those in the other lift line!



It's probably just like they do at say Universal Studios theme parks or at Six Flags.  For a fee, above and beyond the usual fee, you get access to a separate line which they then manage along with the regular queue line.  In a ski situation, I could see them taking say 2 or 3 groups out of that premium queue lane for every 1 they take out of the regular queue lanes to speed up the process. You end up not going right to the front, but that queue lane between having less people using it and more groups being called out from it moves quicker.

For example at 6 Flags, they have a 3 tier what they call a "flash pass" system where the cheapest pass level, once you electronically log into a rides flashpass queue always you to enter the regular ride queue lane essentually just before you would load the ride, at a time that it equivalent to what the usual queue lane wait it (so that you can go on other rides instead of waiting for the one you flash pass reserved) - their middle level flashpass, which costs about twice what the basic flash pass costs, lets you cut the wait time by 50%, and the premium flashpass, which costs about 4 times what the basic pass costs, reduces your wait time by 90%


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 26, 2014)

drjeff said:


> It's probably just like they do at say Universal Studios theme parks or at Six Flags.  For a fee, above and beyond the usual fee, you get access to a separate line which they then manage along with the regular queue line.



Exactly.

But as I said, conceptually, it doesnt sound much different than your garden-variety 'singles line' in function and practice.

Sooooooooo......... will it be enforced (unlike a singles line)?


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