# Cute 7-year old sued by grumpy old skier



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 2, 2008)

Grumpy old man sues 7-year old for running into him on the ski slopes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/02/national/main3665993.shtml

I'm a bit conflicted about this one.  Yes, the kid is just a kid, but, generally speaking, the law holds parents responsible in this context for their kids, and Colorado law appears to hold kids equally responsible for their acts as adults are.  It doesn't seem like the grandpa is looking to win big here.  He just needs some help.

But, the next time a kid hits a baseball through a neighbor's window and the dad refuses to pay, do we all really want lawsuits?

I'm looking forward to getting my son skiing in a couple of years.  Can't wait for the lawsuits!


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 2, 2008)

Easy to criticize but walk in the  guys shoes > A 60 year old body doesn't mend fast or necessarily well . The kid is cute but the accident is still a reality.

 Pain , suffering  and perhaps economic loss DID occur  and all the HEAT over it by the couch potato public-----------ain't changing that fact


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jan 2, 2008)

The 60 year old is from my town..he's going to win..it's the kids fault..and this is like a month old//


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting -------------I'm betting on a SLAM DUNK


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## hiroto (Jan 2, 2008)

Cute?  2,3 years old maybe, but 7 years old on skies are not cute.  
They can have pretty destructive power.  If my kids harm anybody on 
the slope, I would feel pretty responsible for their act.


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## bvibert (Jan 2, 2008)

I fail to see what the cuteness of the kid has to do with anything.  If he was ugly would that mean the old guy could sue him all he wants??? :-?


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 2, 2008)

Good for you Dad( hiroto) that' sthe RIGHT example  to set !

If more folks accepted responsibility for their actions we'd be a stronger society


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## tree_skier (Jan 2, 2008)

Chalat said that after the crash, Pfahler asked the Swimm family to help pay his $35,000 of medical bills but never heard back. The lawsuit seeks compensation for physical therapy, vacation time, nursing and medical services provided by Pfahler's wife, and other expenses. 


Ok so he doesn't have insurance to help pay the $35,000?  and what were the injuries that resulted in $35,000 in bills and how much did his wife charge him for "nursing and medical services"?  Sounds a little like he is trying for a money grab.


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## hiroto (Jan 2, 2008)

bvibert said:


> I fail to see what the cuteness of the kid has to do with anything.  If he was ugly would that mean the old guy could sue him all he wants??? :-?



I was just commenting on the title of the thread.  It implies "cute boy -> innocent", 
"grumpy old -> evil", jumping to conclusion.  I cannot agree with the implication
that 7 years old kid is innocent by default. 

This article has more info.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7807713

Reader comments of the article is informative too.  Interestingly 
there is a comment from a guy who claim to have sued by the same 
lawyer for the act of his son.


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## bvibert (Jan 2, 2008)

hiroto said:


> I was just commenting on the title of the thread.  It implies "cute boy -> innocent",
> "grumpy old -> evil", jumping to conclusion.  I cannot agree with the implication
> that 7 years old kid is innocent by default.



My comment wasn't directed at you, but rather at the thread title...


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## bvibert (Jan 2, 2008)

For the record I haven't even read any of the articles on this...


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## snoseek (Jan 2, 2008)

Only at Vail.......


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## hiroto (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20071220/NEWS/541382740



> “It wasn’t a violent collision or anything, Scott just kind of tapped his ski boots,” said Robb Swimm,





> Scott was skiing ahead of his father on the catwalk Golden Bear when he tried to pass Pfahler on the right, Robb Swimm said.
> 
> Pfahler was skiing ahead of Scott and turned into him. Scott, the uphill skier, did not have time to react, Robb Swimm said.



I don't understand why they can claim innocence while admitting to those facts.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 3, 2008)

bvibert said:


> My comment wasn't directed at you, but rather at the thread title...





Sorry if the sarcasm didn't come through.

The title was meant to poke fun at all the "outraged" people harassing the injured skier when they (and we) don't know the whole story....


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## MichaelJ (Jan 3, 2008)

This is all conjecture based on hearsay, but I noticed a few interesting things sprinkled throughout the articles:

The Post article begins with the kid making the statement that they were only his spread arms' length away from each other. Does he mean that's how close when he went to pass the guy? That's way too close for an unannounced pass.

The mother says that "her 48-pound son could not have been skiing more than 10 mph on the gentle slope" but I've seen kids *fly* on mellow terrain. Regardless, 48 lbs x 10 mph is still a fairly decent impact, even if only "tapping boots".

I don't think there's anything wrong with a skier injured by another skier wanted *rational* compensation for their injuries.

He was down with a busted clavicle and torn rotator cuff, and the kid tried to ski off.

The claim is that he grabbed the kid by the ankles and threatened to sue right there on the ski slope. That's lame.

The comments about the law firm are the most interesting, though. They're taking what should have been something serious and believable and turning it into an outrage. By going to the extreme with this lawsuit (and apparently others) it's hard to take any of it seriously anymore.

That's my $0.02. This could have been handled nicely but isn't being, and it's sad what it's turned into.

(btw, the reader who commented that a 60-year-old was to frail to be skiing should be confined to a wheelchair at age 60 "for their own good" for the rest of their life)


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## hiroto (Jan 3, 2008)

uphillklimber said:


> You know, being the downhill skiier does not give you Carte Blanche on the slopes. For example, the coed states that when starting, look over your shoulder first. Also, it kinda goes without saying that when you turn right, you look right first...... How many times have we seen folks in front of us, skiing predominately on one side or the other, and then suddenly just make a hard turn without looking and head all the way across the trail? Cutting folks off in the process? But they were the downhill skiier so that makes it okay??????



If I may quote a code, I think most of them say something like, "People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them".  It is simplistic rule and most (all?) code does not spell out how to behave as downhill skiier to be more compatible on the slope , but it does reflect the fact the uphill skiier has siginificant control over the relationship between him and the skiier ahead of him.

The guy may have made sudden move making it harder to avoid,  but that would never reduce the responsibility of the boy down to 0.


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## wa-loaf (Jan 3, 2008)

tree_skier said:


> Chalat said that after the crash, Pfahler asked the Swimm family to help pay his $35,000 of medical bills but never heard back. The lawsuit seeks compensation for physical therapy, vacation time, nursing and medical services provided by Pfahler's wife, and other expenses.
> 
> 
> Ok so he doesn't have insurance to help pay the $35,000?  and what were the injuries that resulted in $35,000 in bills and how much did his wife charge him for "nursing and medical services"?  Sounds a little like he is trying for a money grab.



I don't know what his insurance situation is, but if his wife had to take time off to take care of him that's a fair expense. Maybe his medical bills were much higher and his insurance only cover 50 - 80% or something?


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## hiroto (Jan 3, 2008)

MichaelJ said:


> The comments about the law firm are the most interesting, though. They're taking what should have been something serious and believable and turning it into an outrage. By going to the extreme with this lawsuit (and apparently others) it's hard to take any of it seriously anymore.



Couldn't agree more.  If the boy's family had some rationality and not go to the extreme of "our boy is 100% innocent" and approached the guy with reasonable compensation, they wouldn't have put themselves into this mess.  The guy and the lawyer may be making this into something rediculous but the boy's family asked for it.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jan 3, 2008)

hiroto said:


> Couldn't agree more.  If the boy's family had some rationality and not go to the extreme of "our boy is 100% innocent" and approached the guy with reasonable compensation, they wouldn't have put themselves into this mess.  The guy and the lawyer may be making this into something rediculous but the boy's family asked for it.




Also, I wonder if the family's insurance wouldn't have pitched in.  I guess it depends on the type of coverage, but it seems like something one would be insured for.


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## tree_skier (Jan 3, 2008)

wa-loaf said:


> I don't know what his insurance situation is, but if his wife had to take time off to take care of him that's a fair expense. Maybe his medical bills were much higher and his insurance only cover 50 - 80% or something?




I know of no insurance that doesn't have a yearly out of pocket limit, ours is $2000 person/$4000 family and the most I have ever heard of is $10000.  A broken clavicle and a torn rotator cuff for $35,000????.  It still seems like a money grab to me


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## nancy2 (Jan 8, 2008)

hospital bill alone from rutland vt for one week was $131,900.50.
amount due from me was $34,457.36, 
tibial plateau fracture. had external fixator installed while i was there. then on to new york hospital for special surgeries for 2 more surgeries and 3 more weeks in hospital. excruciating pain.
3 more months on crutches that year.
had my 12 screws and plate removed this may plus arthroscopy.
scheduled for total knee replacement feb 19.
some idiot ran into me on superstar almost 2 years ago. 
changed my life forever.
what would you do?


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## hiroto (Jan 8, 2008)

nancy2 said:


> hospital bill alone from rutland vt for one week was $131,900.50.
> amount due from me was $34,457.36,
> tibial plateau fracture. had external fixator installed while i was there. then on to new york hospital for special surgeries for 2 more surgeries and 3 more weeks in hospital. excruciating pain.
> 3 more months on crutches that year.
> ...



Sorry to hear that nancy2.  When you say "some idiot", does that mean he just ran away and you don't know who he is?


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## Brettski (Jan 9, 2008)

"on your right!!!!"

http://www.skilaw.com/skilawsurvey.html


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## Warp Daddy (Jan 9, 2008)

nancy2 -I'm so sorry to hear of your accident .

 I'm a 64 yr old who refuses to grow up and probably push myself too hard  and ski too fast ----------------------but damn I LUV this sport 

 I've had my share of broken bones( wrists twice)  and other  chronic issues  and so has my wife (  she had the screws /plates job  etc) 2 yrs ago  and while recovery DOES take longer now we  refuse to go calmly into the long night !--

 Live life , Collect people,  enjoy each day and  continue to push yourself because the Alternative is SCARY


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## mrksn (Jan 10, 2008)

While skiing at Blue Mtn last season, a snowboarder collided into me in front of a patroller.  The kid said sorry but was clearly outta control and tried to leave the scene until the patroller stopped him, took down his info and gave him a ticket.  I've also seen Blue patrollers issue tickets for speeding in posted slow zones.  Maybe we need more of this and verbal warnings to teach some lessons.


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## nancy2 (Jan 11, 2008)

i have not read this thread  in a while

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48788
brings back awful memories


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