# Tuning Equipment and Tools



## BeanoNYC (Jan 13, 2007)

Ok...so I'm dead set on learning to tune my own skis.  Charlie has sent me a link to a great video and NYDrew is going to drink...I mean meet with me soon for some lessons. 

I'm looking to INVEST in some good tools.  Would I like to spend $30 bucks on a tune kit and be done with it?  Of course, but the realist in me tells me to buck up, buy the right equipment and learn the proper way to use them.  That being said what will I need to buy?  Are these three in one tools worth while?  List and Links would be helpul

Thanks in advance.


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## Jay's Dip Powcher (Jan 13, 2007)

It will be at least a couple hundred to get you started.

Great link....  http://reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=11027398&category=2400


Items needed - 

Ski Vises - imperative!
Rubber band to hold the brakes closed
Bench
Waxing Iron
Wire brush
Nylon or horse hair brush
Diamond Stone
Bastard file
Wax - cold, warm , and all purpose
Base cleaner
Plexi or metal scraper
P-tex
Lighter

When you get all of this... http://www.skiernet.com/ski-tune-up.html

or type in tuning in google and read as many as you can stand. Practice on an old set up or rock skis. I am addicted to tuning and really like doing it.


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## Jay's Dip Powcher (Jan 13, 2007)

Interesting link as well....   http://www.tognar.com/tips_tricks_information_ski_snowboard_waxing_tuning_repair_tools.html

I really need to go skiing!


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks!

So something along the lines of the Prima Tool Kit + Waxing equipment + vices?

http://www.tognar.com/kits_tool_wax_ski_snowboard.html    (Prima is the last item on the page)


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## Jay's Dip Powcher (Jan 13, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So something along the lines of the Prima Tool Kit + Waxing equipment + vices?
> 
> http://www.tognar.com/kits_tool_wax_ski_snowboard.html    (Prima is the last item on the page)



that's it!


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks Powch....a few more questions here.

1) Should I go for those all-in-one base/side edger or the individual guides with a file?

2) What's the deal with the angles?  Does it depend on the ski?


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## Jay's Dip Powcher (Jan 13, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Thanks Powch....a few more questions here.
> 
> 1) Should I go for those all-in-one base/side edger or the individual guides with a file?
> 
> 2) What's the deal with the angles?  Does it depend on the ski?



The all in one is what I use and I set it at a 1 degree bevel/ angle, that is the most comon. It sharpens quickly and thouroughly. It is important that sharpening should only be done when the edges are really dull, use the diamond stone to touch up and get nicks out between sharpening because sharpening every time you will shorten the life of your edge and kill the ski before it's time. The all in one is no joke and takes metal off! 
The one thing I learned about waxing is to prep the base good  texture it with the wire brush and really clean it and be sure to heat the base up well when spreading wax on so it absorbs it. 
The worst thing is that you end up scraping most of the wax off, don't be shy really angle the scraper and scrape hard. 90% off the wax comes off, finish it off with the nylon or hosehair brush and you are good to go! I wax after every single trip. It is more common sense and not a lot of science, don not over think it and do what makes most common sense after reading the basics.
I now only go to the ski shop with my skis to base grind.


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## kbroderick (Jan 13, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Thanks Powch....a few more questions here.
> 
> 1) Should I go for those all-in-one base/side edger or the individual guides with a file?
> 
> 2) What's the deal with the angles?  Does it depend on the ski?



1) Individual guides with a file (and a diamond stone).  It's much easier to get good results that way, and you'll have a better selection of cutting / abrasion tools to pick from (plus you can get more cutting paths out of the same file).  The downside is that you need to spend a little more if you want the flexibility to use multiple edge angles.

2) Yes, and on the skier.  1' and 1' is pretty common for all-mountain skis, as is 1' of base with 2' of side.  Upper-level racers ski with a lot more (I've heard 5' or 6' of side bevel for World Cup / NorAm types), but that tends to get duller more quickly; I stick with 2' of side bevel on my skis at this point, although I may go back to 3' on my race skis (since I tune them often enough that I'm not terribly concerned about edge wear between tunes).

Re: the Tognar Prima kit, that looks like a good place to start to me.  Add a pair of vices, a decent iron, perhaps a pansar file, and some wax, and you should be good to go.


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## Goblin84 (Jan 16, 2007)

I am really in the same boat as you are.  I am not a big fan of the multi tools.  I would go with the file guides.  I go with a 0 on my base edge and a 2 on my side.  But try out a few different ones and see which you like best (i wouldnt be switching everyother day though....you will have no edge left!)

as for base cleaners (in the original list of tuning equipment) it isnt needed as much.  you can get some cheap wax, toss it on your ski's and scrape it off before it dries.  that will do a pretty good job of cleaning your ski's.

and just because you tune your own (or soon will be) you still need to bring them into the shop now and then.  I get a stonegrind on my bases to make sure they are nice and flat and a base wax is something i will not touch with a 10 foot pole.

this is a very random post...im a scatter brain kinda person so its how i work.  this is a great article...   http://www.edgewiseskitunes.com/articles.html?ref=11&sp=4     ... it has some pretty technical info on it.  I was always in the frame of mind that it is better to know to much then two little.  There is a lot of good info on sidewalls, bevel angles, and various other tuning stuff


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## tree_skier (Jan 16, 2007)

Good luck on your $30 goal.  After updating my 20 ish year old collection over the last 2 years counting wax I have about $500 into tuning stuff mostly proformed.  But I do have two kids racing and tune 4 pairs a week for them.

For a rec skier you need a few less items

a good set of vices
a bench to work off of - if you don't have a workbench you can get a inexpensive folding bench from home depot/lowes
base file guide 1 degree
edge file guide 2 degree or 88 from toko
1"spring clamp
10" file - buy a case and you don't need the real expensive ones
file card
universal edge grinder - for deburring edges
gummi stone - course
Hydrocarbon wax
wax iron - you can use any iron but look for one without holes and the expensive wax irons work great
plexi scraper
scraper sharpener

if you want to get into base repair
p-tex candles
base powder - works great but you need to have a good wax iron
p-tex tape
metal scraper
panzer file
true bar
base cleaner

Gloves

A rec skier doesn't need to use brushes, diamond stones flurocarbon waxes etc.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 16, 2007)

$30 is an unrealistic number....For a $100.00 you can get pretty well set up, then you'll just have to replace wax/files etc as the years go on...still cheaper in the long run than bringing it to the shop.....


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 16, 2007)

Sorry...it's been a busy weekend and I didn't get to post.

I actually got a wax iron from my Sister and Brother in law for my Birthday this weekend!  

Thanks for all the tips.  I think I'm going to go for individual guides rather than the all in ones.

Tree_Skier:  I know I won't come anywhere near 30 bucks to build up the tools I need.  I'm hoping just to get good bare bones tools now and eventually build it up.  My budget is more or less around $150 at this point.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 16, 2007)

$150 and you'll be fine....call the boys at Tognar, tell em your situation and they'll get you exactly what you need and nothing more.....they are excellent


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## Jay's Dip Powcher (Jan 16, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Good luck on your $30 goal.  After updating my 20 ish year old collection over the last 2 years counting wax I have about $500 into tuning stuff mostly proformed.  But I do have two kids racing and tune 4 pairs a week for them.
> 
> For a rec skier you need a few less items
> 
> ...



Why no brushes or a diamond stone? Just curios because the way I was taught it is instrumental in the process. I may be doing nothing correctly but it sure seems to ski well for me.


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## tree_skier (Jan 17, 2007)

You want a course stone to deburr the edges and a fine stone or gummi stone to polish.   Stones are available from $2 to $10.  diamond stones have 2 uses, deburring and polishing the edges.  They are quite expensive and if you want them to last you also need the cutting juice.  So you can get good results for alot less money by bypassing the  diamond stone.

Brushes,  brushes have two uses cleaning the base and race preping the wax.  There are two kinds, hand and roto. To use the hand brushes plan on 15 minutes per ski for each step and a roto brush kit runs about $170.  To clean a ski base without brushing either use a base cleaning liguid or apply a coat of inexpesive warm temp wax and scrape immediately repeat untill wax scrapings are the same color as the original wax.  The wax method works decently but if you are going to do base work then you should use the base cleaner.

For a rec skier you don't need diamond stones and brushes. 
to get good results for rec skiers.

edges

deburr - course stone
file
polish - gummi or fine stone

vs racing
deburr
file base
put protective tape on base
file side
diamond stone side
remove tape
diamond stone base
use at least 2 progressively finer stones on base and sides

waxing

rec

clean every 3-4 waxings
apply wax let cool at least 30 min and scrape

vs racing

brush with horsehair or brass brush
clean with wax method
apply 1 coat hydrocarbon wax let cool scrape
brush with horsehair brush
apply second coat of hydrocarbon wax let cool scrape
brush with horsehair brush
apply coat of flurocarbon wax let cool scrape
brush with appropriate brush
apply overlay by appropiate method
brush or cork


now the point is a recreational skier doesn't need to spend all the time and money to gain a tenth of a second over a 60 second course


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## DEVO (Jan 17, 2007)

I find that using a file every time can take too much material off and shorter the life of the ski if you are not careful.  I will file lightly if needed, then sharpen the edges with a coarse diamond stone. Yes it takes longer, but doesn't need to take as much material off to get a sharp edge.

I also find that using a good brass brush before waxing helps open up the structure of the base and that using base cleaner too much will dry out the base.


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## 56fish (Jan 17, 2007)

www.swixsport.com  is a killer sight for any level of tuning. 

Being a boarder wax is extremely important.  Not for speed but, for glide.  I hate to skate so, use of good waxes help me make it across those long cattracks and long run-outs.  I iron every 3-4 days (on the snow) and, cork in lo-flouro waxes appropriate for conditions every day. keeps the board sliding nice.  


It's definitely combination of science & patience.


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## kbroderick (Jan 17, 2007)

DEVO said:


> I find that using a file every time can take too much material off and shorter the life of the ski if you are not careful.  I will file lightly if needed, then sharpen the edges with a coarse diamond stone. Yes it takes longer, but doesn't need to take as much material off to get a sharp edge.
> 
> I also find that using a good brass brush before waxing helps open up the structure of the base and that using base cleaner too much will dry out the base.



I'd agree on both points, and I'd also add that my personal experience suggests that brushing each time you tune can make a significant difference in the long-term glide characteristics of the skis.  I've had rock skis continue to outglide other folks' skis, and I attribute that at least in part to my brushing at each tune (I am a good glider, but I'm not _that_ good).  At this point, I'll brush anything I consider worthy of tuning, even my utility skis and my AT skis.


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## 56fish (Jan 18, 2007)

DEVO said:


> I also find that using a good brass brush before waxing helps open up the structure of the base and that using base cleaner too much will dry out the base.



One way to avoid the base burn;  drying out due to use - primarily on snowboards due to the use of a single edge - iron in a very hard wax near the edge.  In the Swix line: CH or LF 3 or 4.  Bar or powder works well. :beer:  All us techs like beer.


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 18, 2007)

Well thanks for all the help guys.  I made a big purchase from Tognar today.  Here's what I got.


The prima Kit consisting of:

Spring Clamp for Bevel Guide	
Base Edge Bevel Guide- 1 degree
Fine Workshop Diamond Stone	
Sandvik Steel Scraper	
File Cleaning Brush	
Brass Structuring Bar
Clear Base Repair Candles	
True Bar	
8" Vialla Chrome File
Side Edge Bevel Guide- 2 Degree	
Ski/Snowboard Tuning DVD	
Ski Brake Retainers	
Holmenkol Low-Fluoro Paste Wax
Shop Apron

I also ordered the world cup ski and snowboard vise and the steel base cleaning brush.

I got an iron and some wax for my birthday...so I should be all set for a while, I think.

Thanks again.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 19, 2007)

nice!!!  let the fun begin!!!  use a old pair of rock skis the first few time, then use your buddies skis, then yours once you know what you are doing!!!


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 19, 2007)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> nice!!!  let the fun begin!!!  use a old pair of rock skis the first few time, then use your buddies skis, then yours once you know what you are doing!!!




Actually my Rock Skis are fully tuned...I haven't used them this season.  Maybe I'll drag them on the street for a bit.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 29, 2007)

So, how are you making out with your tuning????


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## BeanoNYC (Jan 29, 2007)

SKIQUATTRO said:


> So, how are you making out with your tuning????




Great!  I've been practicing on my older pair.  I've come to the conclusion that as long as I debur with my bevel guides I don't really need to sharpen too often.  Waxing is going along real great too. I created a nice gash in the base to ptex and that came out flat and smooth. Charlie sent me a link to a good video that I will be ordering too.


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## Goblin84 (Jan 31, 2007)

thats good to hear.  I just bought out Tognar.com


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## Sheik Yerbouti (Jan 31, 2007)

If I didn't want to do the edges alot, leave that to the pros, what would I need?
Wax, scapers, cork, iron?
And I think I'd get something to debur the edges


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## SKIQUATTRO (Jan 31, 2007)

a universal bar wax/scraper (plastic and steel)/brush/vices to do basics on the bases (some Ptex candles too)...if you are getting something to deburr the edges, just get a file and sharpen em......


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## MarkC (Jan 31, 2007)

If you are as mean to your gear as I am a p-tex gun will make repairs eaiser and last longer.  You can pick one up for about $80.  I tend to burn the hell out of myself every time I try and use a candle.


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## Goblin84 (Jan 31, 2007)

there are some other things you can buy instead of a ptex gun.  they have things that look like sodering irons too, you can use ptex string with it (including the different types of ptex)


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## SKIQUATTRO (Feb 1, 2007)

the string is good if you need to put PTEX against an edge as the regular PTEX candle drips wont hold against metal...i have the soldering iron for the ptex and it work great....along with a steel scraper...


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## 56fish (Feb 2, 2007)

Lay a thin layer of slow set epoxy in the damaged area next to the edge.  After it's cured p-tex will usually stick.


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 8, 2007)

Ok...here's a real dumb question about files. Is there a surefire way to be sure you are going in the right direction with them? I've been fumbling around with them with the bevels when I'm practicing.


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## 56fish (Feb 9, 2007)

If you are right-handed, holding the file so that the tang is closest to your right hand when pushing the file, the teeth will make a line from your thumb to fore-finger.  Pulling the file, the tang will be in your left hand.  Use a file card frequently to keep the file clean.


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## Goblin84 (Feb 9, 2007)

Hey guys
I got a good one for ya all.  My mogul skis got a pretty good gouge in them that goes right through the base, its on the edge.  I have done ptex (candle and string) and it keeps poping out.  any good ideas?  I have not tried the epoxy yet like 56fish suggested.  Is that the best bet?


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## BeanoNYC (Feb 9, 2007)

Goblin84 said:


> Hey guys
> I got a good one for ya all.  My mogul skis got a pretty good gouge in them that goes right through the base, its on the edge.  I have done ptex (candle and string) and it keeps poping out.  any good ideas?  I have not tried the epoxy yet like 56fish suggested.  Is that the best bet?




Buy a new pair and give the old pair to me.


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## Goblin84 (Feb 9, 2007)

yeah right, thats what just happend to me!  these are my friends old pair he passed down.  I am the second hand store of all that is skiing, i cant afford to buy new things.  Im still a poor recent college grad.  And i work in education adding to the poorness factor


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