# New York Yankees



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 19, 2007)

Ok i want to hear from some Yankee fans about how they are feeling about this team?  I watched the Mets beat them again.  I know Clemens is coming but he can only help you once every five days.  Im a huge redsox fan and they are doing well obviously but then will have a streak when they go 4-6, thats just baseball.. I remember they were 40-17 in 2002 and didnt even make the playoffs so im not gonna sit here and run my mouth or make predictions about the AL east, ive seen it backfire too often.. But seriously the Yanks just dont look good, i know they have had slow starts , 11-19 2yrs ago and still won 98 games and the division but i just dont see that this year.. Watching another pitcher they had on the mound today go down with a broken finger, even im starting to feel bad for them. So your thoughts on the team and where they are headed?  And maybe the Mets are better than them this year but why do they think they own the city all of a sudden??After they win 10 straight divisions and 4world series get back to me , til then shut up your 2nd best for owning the town its just the way it is.


----------



## dmc (May 20, 2007)

LETS GO METS!!!!

Yanks look like they are avoiding sweep right now...

Fact is... The Mets are playing a the top of their game now and the Yanks not so much.. 
We think we own the town because we think our team is winning..  

 It's not even summer yet.. Pleanty of time...


----------



## Zand (May 20, 2007)

Gammons reported that Steinbrenner may be making his decision on whether to keep Torre or nor by Thursday after the series with the Red Sox.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 20, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Another Red Sox Fan here but if the Yankees are under .500 come the time of the all star break I believe Torre will be gone ..



 Normally id agree if it was anybody else but after 11 straight divisions and 4 world series, i dont care if the yankees missed the playoffs entirely this year, the guy deserves to go out on his own terms, hes earned it.


----------



## JimG. (May 21, 2007)

Yankees stink right now...but it's May.

How many times do Yankees fans have to listen to the champions of April/May beating their chests?

Talk to me in September. Especially you Bosox fans.

Unless Torre gets fired...then it's all over now.

BTW, Yanks made a big comeback Sat, and they kicked Mets' ass last night. A blowout.


----------



## jack97 (May 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yankees stink right now...but it's May.



IMO, Torres job and perhaps Cashman is dependent on how Clemens and Mussina will perform once they get into the rotation. The starting pitching sucks, they don't have a stud that will prevent long losing streaks or that will give the bullpen a rest.


----------



## JimG. (May 21, 2007)

jack97 said:


> IMO, Torres job and perhaps Cashman is dependent on how Clemens and Mussina will perform once they get into the rotation. The starting pitching sucks, they don't have a stud that will prevent long losing streaks or that will give the bullpen a rest.



I'd tell Steinbrenner the same thing I said here...it's May, take a chill pill and calm down.

I'd rather they play poorly now than in August/September when it counts.


----------



## Grassi21 (May 21, 2007)

In The Boss' defense, he is much mellower than years past.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 21, 2007)

It's the curse of the new Stadium.

For every cubic foot of concrete poured in the new foundation, another Yankee starting pitcher will be injured in increasingly bizarre fashions.  Next injury: Moose's right index finger will be pecked off by an angry Bronx pigeon.

For every 10 cubic feet poured, the Red Sox will gain a game on the Yanks in the standings... and one faithful RSN member will spontaneously combust out of excitement.

For every 100 cubic feet poured, a speck of real blood will be found among the red paint on Curt Schilling's (in)famous sock.

(Yes, I'm a Yankees fan.  A bewildered fan.  But, I'm not complaining.  It's been a good run and I'm still hopeful.)


----------



## threecy (May 21, 2007)

Grassi21 said:


> In The Boss' defense, he is much mellower than years past.



There are rumors out there that he has Alzheimer's, which is limiting his public speaking appearances, etc.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yankees stink right now...but it's May.
> 
> How many times do Yankees fans have to listen to the champions of April/May beating their chests?
> 
> ...



 I understand what your sayin Jim but they just dont seem right this year, if they are 10 out next week after going to boston u wont see them again for months.  I feel they need 2/3 minimum for their ego the next few days from Boston.  Its almost June, will be interesting to see where they are say July 1st.  If its still more than 5games i think the yanks are in trouble for the division.  I know they swept 5games last year but i cant see any 5 game losing streaks at all this year for the redsox.


----------



## Rushski (May 22, 2007)

Torre is a class act, unlike most of their players...

Hell of a pitching staff.


----------



## Grassi21 (May 22, 2007)

Making up some ground.  The bats came alive last night.


----------



## Rushski (May 22, 2007)

Bats are definitely there, pitching...


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 22, 2007)

Rushski said:


> Bats are definitely there, pitching...



Fine.  Agreed.  WAY too many questions.  But, IMHO, the Red Sox have plenty to worry about in the pitching department for the second half (enough to make a difference?  probably not as far as the AL East crown goes.)....

* "Big Mouth" Curt - past his prime + 2nd half swoon last year could easily be repeated

* Dice Clay - will log a ton of innings against tougher competition - 2nd half worries?

* Blisters Beckett - did I say "Blisters"? 

* Wakefield - will regress to his career mean (not to mention that the Yankees seem to have him figured out) 

* Papelbon - 2nd half swoon in '06 - likely to happen again?  he's only a 2nd-year player, so, not 100% proven.... 

* Okajima - sorry, but, no way he keeps this up

Anyway, just my (jealous) two cents.  Enjoy the ride, Sox fans, must be fun.


----------



## Rushski (May 22, 2007)

Just curious, who is actually healthy and pitching for the Yanks?

Clemens - What is he 56?  Quite the franchise savior.
Pettitte - Way past his one or two decent "prime" years.
Rasner - Who?
Wang - Who?
Rivera - Once great, now?  16 games, 3 losses, 3 saves...
Mussina - Not in Baltimore anymore.  2-2, 5.64 ERA
Igawa - One stellar game, otherwise?

I'll take the Sox's hot-for-now pitching Vs. the Yanks' aging, ailing, untested piching any day.  Maybe the yanks could afford to trade a big bat or two for some respectable pitching...


----------



## kickstand (May 22, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Fine.  Agreed.  WAY too many questions.  But, IMHO, the Red Sox have plenty to worry about in the pitching department for the second half (enough to make a difference?  probably not as far as the AL East crown goes.)....
> 
> * "Big Mouth" Curt - past his prime + 2nd half swoon last year could easily be repeated
> 
> ...



this has to be a joke........................


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 22, 2007)

Hey i cant expect to beat the yankees everytime, i would have been ok with just 1 out of 3 against them in these 3 games, just not 3 in a row, i dont want any streaks developing.  I can live with getting out of there with a 9.5 game lead but id be worried if it was 7.5.  I watch alot of Yankee games, that was one of the better games they have played so far this year, the sox had their chances just couldlnt get any hits with people on base.


----------



## Paul (May 22, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hey i cant expect to beat the yankees everytime, i would have been ok with just 1 out of 3 against them in these 3 games, just not 3 in a row, i dont want any streaks developing.  I can live with getting out of there with a 9.5 game lead but id be worried if it was 7.5.  I watch alot of Yankee games, that was one of the better games they have played so far this year, the sox had their chances just couldlnt get any hits with people on base.



Last night just shows that it doesn't matter how "Big" your "Unit" is, its how effective your "Wang" can be.


----------



## JimG. (May 22, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I understand what your sayin Jim but they just dont seem right this year, if they are 10 out next week after going to boston u wont see them again for months.  I feel they need 2/3 minimum for their ego the next few days from Boston.  Its almost June, will be interesting to see where they are say July 1st.  If its still more than 5games i think the yanks are in trouble for the division.  I know they swept 5games last year but i cant see any 5 game losing streaks at all this year for the redsox.




August 1978...Yanks begin the month 14 1/2 games behind the Sox in the division and were essentially left for dead.

Who won the World Series that year?

Again, talk to me in August/September. And I'm not saying that because they've won 2 in a row.


----------



## JimG. (May 22, 2007)

Rushski said:


> Just curious, who is actually healthy and pitching for the Yanks?
> 
> Clemens - What is he 56?  Quite the franchise savior.
> Pettitte - Way past his one or two decent "prime" years.
> ...



The Chinese "Who" went 7 strong innings last night and pretty much shut the Sox down.


----------



## SkiDog (May 22, 2007)

not for nothing, but the Yanks are still in 2nd place in the east...not that thats saying much, but they are...and its EARLY...

Lots of baseball left......

M


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 22, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The Chinese "Who" went 7 strong innings last night and pretty much shut the Sox down.



 Ya you cant WHO wang, the guy can pitch for my team anyday


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 22, 2007)

3 hits against tavarez i think we know who the pressure is on now to win tomorrow night thats for sure.


----------



## Rushski (May 23, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> 3 hits against tavarez i think we know who the pressure is on now to win tomorrow night thats for sure.



And we all know Tavarez is not their best starter...


----------



## threecy (May 23, 2007)

As crappy as the Yankees are (and they are crappy!), I have to give them credit for getting to Okie and Paps...part of the reason they have been so successful is that they have people chasing lots of balls...but last night the Yanks left their bats on their shoulders and made them both work.


----------



## kickstand (May 23, 2007)

JimG. said:


> August 1978...Yanks begin the month 14 1/2 games behind the Sox in the division and were essentially left for dead.
> 
> Who won the World Series that year?
> 
> Again, talk to me in August/September. And I'm not saying that because they've won 2 in a row.



you aren't comparing the 1978 Yankees to the 2007 Yankees, are you?  I'm gonna go out on a big, big limb and say that the 1978 Yankees were immensely better than the 2007 version.  Unless Steinbrenner wants to trade all the prospects he just picked up and take on another $50m in payroll, there is no way this team is catching anyone, whether it be for the division or the wild card.


----------



## JimG. (May 23, 2007)

kickstand said:


> you aren't comparing the 1978 Yankees to the 2007 Yankees, are you?  I'm gonna go out on a big, big limb and say that the 1978 Yankees were immensely better than the 2007 version.  Unless Steinbrenner wants to trade all the prospects he just picked up and take on another $50m in payroll, there is no way this team is catching anyone, whether it be for the division or the wild card.



No...just pointing out that there's alot of season left and April/May games, while they do add up when you're playing as poorly as the Yanks still are, don't make championship teams...that's for August/September.

The 1978 Yanks are an example of how things can change suddenly. Another is the 1969 Mets.

So, let's all hope you don't wind up eating your words about them not catching anyone. Because it has happened before.


----------



## SkiDog (May 23, 2007)

JimG. said:


> So, let's all hope you don't wind up eating your words about them not catching anyone. Because it has happened before.




Sure has and sure still could.....some teams merely fall apart after the all star break so.....
BASEBALL IS A LOOOOONNNNNGGGG SEASON.

M


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 23, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Sure has and sure still could.....some teams merely fall apart after the all star break so.....
> BASEBALL IS A LOOOOONNNNNGGGG SEASON.
> 
> M



 Jim u know i never said anything like that its happened too often, and talk about teams falling apart after the allstar break, does anyone remember last year, after the redsox swept the mets going into the allstar game they were by far the best team in baseball and look how that turned out the rest of the year.


----------



## JimG. (May 24, 2007)

Rushski said:


> Just curious, who is actually healthy and pitching for the Yanks?
> 
> Clemens - What is he 56?  Quite the franchise savior.
> Pettitte - Way past his one or two decent "prime" years.
> ...



Last night, Pettite looked pretty good for a guy way past his 1 or 2 decent prime years. BTW, 1 or 2 decent prime years? Which Andy Pettite have you been watching all these years. The guy is a stud and always has been.


----------



## kickstand (May 24, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Last night, Pettite looked pretty good for a guy way past his 1 or 2 decent prime years. BTW, 1 or 2 decent prime years? Which Andy Pettite have you been watching all these years. The guy is a stud and always has been.



1 start out of 10......

the guy has been a quality pitcher, but "a stud"?  I think you need to look at his stats a little closer.  He's had 3 seasons (out of 13) where you could legitimately say, "wow, what a great year from Pettitte."  You could argue maybe 2 other seasons either way.  Other than that, he's been average to slightly above average and the beneficiary of some solid run support.


----------



## Rushski (May 24, 2007)

Pettitte is 3-3 and he certainly pitched well last night.  Obviously he's a much better than average pitcher.  But can a rotation really be led by him and a geriatric Clemens?

Their bats will always produce, but you have to admit they need to some talented "young" arms.  Maybe they can get Randy Johnson back?


----------



## SkiDog (May 24, 2007)

WOW 8 -3......Shilling got CLOBBERED!!!!!!!

Petite looked EXCELLENT...still think he's one of the best lefties in baseball...certainly the best move to first EVER.....I really wish though that mariano hadn't lost a step....I think he's done...he had a GREAT run.

By the way...last nights game was the start of the new beginning for the Yanks....its all wins from here.

See you at the Series!!!! 

M


----------



## SkiDog (May 24, 2007)

Rushski said:


> Maybe they can get Randy Johnson back?



The mere thought of that makes me INCREDIBLY sick....Big Unit??? More like BIG TOOL!

Takes a lot more than a strong arm to pitch well in NY.....

Good riddance!

M


----------



## JimG. (May 24, 2007)

Rushski said:


> But can a rotation really be led by him and a geriatric Clemens?
> 
> Their bats will always produce, but you have to admit they need to some talented "young" arms.  Maybe they can get Randy Johnson back?



You seem to forget about Wang when you say things like this...didn't he lead their staff last season? He was injured coming out of spring training, but his last few starts have been quality.

And do not discount Phillip Hughes...another quality young arm that will produce wins.

If anything, the Yanks bullpen is the area of real concern.


----------



## JimG. (May 24, 2007)

kickstand said:


> 1 start out of 10......
> 
> the guy has been a quality pitcher, but "a stud"?  I think you need to look at his stats a little closer.  He's had 3 seasons (out of 13) where you could legitimately say, "wow, what a great year from Pettitte."  You could argue maybe 2 other seasons either way.  Other than that, he's been average to slightly above average and the beneficiary of some solid run support.



The stats I look at are not things like strikeouts or the speed of a fastball. Nolan Ryan was the best at those things and he was a .500 pitcher for the most part.

Pettite has always been the guy in the rotation who can be counted on to pitch a good game and stop a losing streak. And he is a MONEY playoff pitcher. And he has an excellent winning percentage.

The man is a STUD.


----------



## kickstand (May 24, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Pettite has always been the guy in the rotation who can be counted on to pitch a good game and stop a losing streak. And he is a MONEY playoff pitcher. And he has an excellent winning percentage.
> 
> The man is a STUD.



it was either on the radio or during the game they gave Pettitte's record immediately following a Yankee loss, and it is pretty good.  I can't remember what it is, but I do remember it being impressive.

Where I have to disagree is him being a money playoff pitcher.  He had a great World Series in 2003, even though he lost Game 6, and a good ALCS in 2001, but that's about it.  Looking at the generic stats everyone looks at, he's been very average - overall - as a playoff pitcher.  I counted 4 games that the Yankees came back late to get him off the hook for the loss.  That puts him at 14-9 lifetime in the playoffs.  This alone is a good reason not to look just at wins and losses, for him or any other pitcher.

hey, the guy has been a quality pitcher for most of his career, I just don't think he deserves the pedestal you have him on.


----------



## Marc (May 24, 2007)

The yankees kill and eat kittens.


----------



## SkiDog (May 24, 2007)

Marc said:


> The yankees kill and eat kittens.



And your point is? HA

M


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (May 24, 2007)

kickstand said:


> it was either on the radio or during the game they gave Pettitte's record immediately following a Yankee loss, and it is pretty good.  I can't remember what it is, but I do remember it being impressive.
> 
> Where I have to disagree is him being a money playoff pitcher.  He had a great World Series in 2003, even though he lost Game 6, and a good ALCS in 2001, but that's about it.  Looking at the generic stats everyone looks at, he's been very average - overall - as a playoff pitcher.  I counted 4 games that the Yankees came back late to get him off the hook for the loss.  That puts him at 14-9 lifetime in the playoffs.  This alone is a good reason not to look just at wins and losses, for him or any other pitcher.
> 
> hey, the guy has been a quality pitcher for most of his career, I just don't think he deserves the pedestal you have him on.




You're right, he shouldn't be on a pedestal.  But, he's just one of those guys I think Yankees fans have a real attachment to and love for.  Doesn't make the fans right, but who cares?  Sometimes the numbers are "just" numbers.

However, I don't think he's just an "average" playoff pitcher.  He's made 34 starts and pitched 212 innings in the playoffs (all time-records, btw), which is equivalent to a full season of pitching.  So, his 14-9 record and 4.09 ERA look pretty good when you consider he did it in the playoffs and pitchers can often times beef up their stats against weak teams during the course of the regular season.


----------



## kickstand (May 24, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> You're right, he shouldn't be on a pedestal.  But, he's just one of those guys I think Yankees fans have a real attachment to and love for.  Doesn't make the fans right, but who cares?  Sometimes the numbers are "just" numbers.
> 
> However, I don't think he's just an "average" playoff pitcher.  He's made 34 starts and pitched 212 innings in the playoffs (all time-records, btw), which is equivalent to a full season of pitching.  So, his 14-9 record and 4.09 ERA look pretty good when you consider he did it in the playoffs and pitchers can often times beef up their stats against weak teams during the course of the regular season.



Agreed about the fans taking a liking to him.  He seems like a great guy and has come up big in a few games.

again, I counted 4 games that he got shelled but the offense came back after he got pulled to win the game.  Granted, that only affects the W-L, but those were off-set by a few great performances.  A few great ones and a few stinkers puts you somewhere in the middle.  Isn't that what average is?

and those "all-time" records - let's not even try and pretend like ANY modern-day "all-time playoff record" even matters.  These guys are doing it in a a day and age when you can play up to 19 games in the playoffs.  Of course a team like the Yankees, who went to the WS 5 out of 6 years, will have a few guys who own records like that.  These playoff records are a joke.  World Series records hold much, much more water, IMHO.  Post-season records should be broken up into eras.


----------



## JimG. (May 24, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> You're right, he shouldn't be on a pedestal.  But, he's just one of those guys I think Yankees fans have a real attachment to and love for.  Doesn't make the fans right, but who cares?  Sometimes the numbers are "just" numbers.
> 
> However, I don't think he's just an "average" playoff pitcher.  He's made 34 starts and pitched 212 innings in the playoffs (all time-records, btw), which is equivalent to a full season of pitching.  So, his 14-9 record and 4.09 ERA look pretty good when you consider he did it in the playoffs and pitchers can often times beef up their stats against weak teams during the course of the regular season.



You're right...Yankees fans do have a genuine attachment to Pettite. I was angry for a year when they didn't do whatever it took to keep him and he went off to Houston. Fact is he was disrespected by Steinbrenner who had tried to trade him the year before. Another reason why George is such an idiot. So I don't blame Pettite for leaving and I'm glad he's back.

And thanks for giving some more meaning to his playoff record; I'm not good with stats and stuff like that. I think Pettite is overlooked generally by alot of people. Not at all flashy, just workmanlike and reliable. And damned good.

Dwight Evans was a Boston player who was similar in this regard...damned good hitter, good in the clutch, one of the best right fielders I've ever seen, great throwing arm. Boston fans loved him. Never got the respect or attention he really deserved.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (May 24, 2007)

I dont overlook Pettite, everyone is saying hes 3-3 but he could easily be 5-1 this year.  Last night was a bigger game for  the Yanks than the sox, the sox were playing with house money and even though schilling got beat, if i had a big game to pitch in the playoffs or perhaps to holt a 5game losing streak Pettite and Schilling are both very much big game pitchers that would have alot more confidence in getting the job done than say Wang and Beckett even with their records last year and this year.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 5, 2007)

Well i have to bump this thread, the redsox had 2 chances over the past 2 weekends to put the yankees 15+ games back and the yankees won 4 out of 6.   And give A-rod credit even with all the drama in his life he got a biggggg hit.  So ill say this being a redsox fan, i feel this way about the yankees right now.. Its like your passenger side mirror says..
"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear"


----------



## kickstand (Jun 6, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Its like your passenger side mirror says..
> "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear"



um, yeah - the object in the rear view mirror that is closest is Toronto.  How about you worry about catching Baltimore and Toronto before catching the Sox?  The Yankees are closer to Tampa Bay than the Sox.  Let's discuss when the Yankees are actually a threat.

2007 American League Standings  (6/6/2007)
East W L PCT GB 
Boston 37 20 .649 --- 
Toronto 28 29 .491 9  
Baltimore 27 32 .458 11  
NY Yankees 25 31 .446 11 1/2 
Tampa Bay 24 32 .429 12 1/2


----------



## JimG. (Jun 6, 2007)

Boston had a chance to regain a game on Monday when the Yanks fell apart again, but they lost. Somebody is hearing footsteps.

I know the Yanks won last night and Boston...lost again. Those footsteps are getting louder.


----------



## kickstand (Jun 6, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Boston had a chance to regain a game on Monday when the Yanks fell apart again, but they lost. Somebody is hearing footsteps.
> 
> I know the Yanks won last night and Boston...lost again. Those footsteps are getting louder.



yeah - Baltimore....keep plugging away, guys - you're only one behind them in the loss column!


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 6, 2007)

I agree with ya Jim, cmon Kickstand we both know Baltimore and Toronto wont be around for much longer, let get serious here.


----------



## kickstand (Jun 6, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> cmon Kickstand we both know Baltimore and Toronto wont be around for much longer, let get serious here.



I am being serious - how do you know the Yankees will be there?  You talk like there's never been precedent for them missing the playoffs.  Besides, wouldn't it be fair and accurate to say they've gotten progressively worse since 2000?

Bottom line is there are 2 teams between the Sox and Yanks.  When you're 4th, you can't get into first place without passing 3rd and 2nd.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 6, 2007)

kickstand said:


> I am being serious - how do you know the Yankees will be there?  You talk like there's never been precedent for them missing the playoffs.  Besides, wouldn't it be fair and accurate to say they've gotten progressively worse since 2000?
> 
> Bottom line is there are 2 teams between the Sox and Yanks.  When you're 4th, you can't get into first place without passing 3rd and 2nd.



What you're saying is that you'll worry about them when you see them in the rearview mirror.

Which makes sense.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 6, 2007)

Yank fans don't give a rats arse where anyone else is. At this point its one series at a time. we need to win series everything else will take care of itself.  Got game two last night.  Can't remember the last time we took game two in a series.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 8, 2007)

Tied for third.....hear the footsteps yet???? I think they're getting LOUDER.....

Dont count em out yet.....not by a long shot....

Enjoy your time at the top...it will be short lived.. ;-)

M


----------



## JimG. (Jun 8, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Tied for third.....hear the footsteps yet???? I think they're getting LOUDER.....
> 
> Dont count em out yet.....not by a long shot....
> 
> ...



Schilling had the no hitter with 2 outs in the ninth. Next pitch was a clean hit. I thought he was going to completely fall apart and give up a homer to the next batter, but he got the pop up.

As much as I would have killed to see him lose after pitching such a gem, I have to admit Schilling is a detemined competitor. A real pro.

Boston better keep winning now...they've had their annual April/May winning feast and are starting June in fall apart mode.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Schilling had the no hitter with 2 outs in the ninth. Next pitch was a clean hit. I thought he was going to completely fall apart and give up a homer to the next batter, but he got the pop up.
> 
> As much as I would have killed to see him lose after pitching such a gem, I have to admit Schilling is a detemined competitor. A real pro.
> 
> Boston better keep winning now...they've had their annual April/May winning feast and are starting June in fall apart mode.



Agreed...

Saw that shilling thing (or heard darned utah)....actually felt bad for him....the stress of that must be amazing.....he is a competitor...thats for sure....

Problem is they need more than one competitor on the team HA... ;-) let the slide backwards start sooner than later for Baaaaassstan....

Again...enjoy it while it lasts bean town... 

M


----------



## Zand (Jun 8, 2007)

It's time for the Red Sox 12 game winning streak vs the NL.


----------



## kickstand (Jun 8, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Problem is they need more than one competitor on the team HA... ;-)



that's funny, considering NYY fields a bunch of softies like Mussina, Abreu and A-Rod.

BTW, here's your daily reminder:

2007 American League Standings 
EAST W L PCT GB 
Boston 38 21 .644 -  
Toronto 28 31 .475 10  
Baltimore 28 32 .467 10.5  
NY Yankees 27 31 .466 10.5  
Tampa Bay 26 32 .448 11.5 

congrats - they're tied with Baltimore in games behind.  Pretty soon they will have leap-frogged into the #3 position.  Remember, you can't get to #1 without going thru 3 and 2.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 8, 2007)

kickstand said:


> that's funny, considering NYY fields a bunch of softies like Mussina, Abreu and A-Rod.
> 
> BTW, here's your daily reminder:
> 
> ...



Actually, according to your data, the Yanks have one less loss than Baltimore, they are not tied. Technically, this means they are in 3rd place all by themselves. They're coming.

Toronto is next to fall and then the Yanks are in 2nd and in the rearview mirror.

Do you wish to concede the division now?


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Do you wish to concede the division now?



I think they should......its only a matter of time... ;-)

M


----------



## kickstand (Jun 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Actually, according to your data, the Yanks have one less loss than Baltimore, they are not tied. Technically, this means they are in 3rd place all by themselves. They're coming.
> 
> Toronto is next to fall and then the Yanks are in 2nd and in the rearview mirror.
> 
> Do you wish to concede the division now?



actually, it would go to percentage points, which still puts the Yankees in 4th place

even though Toronto is only 1 win ahead of the Yankees in terms of record, I don't see why anyone is even discussing this while NYY has a losing record.  Get up over .500 and this might be a worthwhile discussion.  Otherwise, it comes off as Yankee fans desperately trying to convince themselves there still is hope.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 8, 2007)

kickstand said:


> actually, it would go to percentage points, which still puts the Yankees in 4th place
> 
> even though Toronto is only 1 win ahead of the Yankees in terms of record, I don't see why anyone is even discussing this while NYY has a losing record.  Get up over .500 and this might be a worthwhile discussion.  Otherwise, it comes off as Yankee fans desperately trying to convince themselves there still is hope.



We're discussing it because lately the division leader has been tripping over their own feet. Schilling saved them from yet another loss yesterday...1-0 ain't exactly an offensive explosion.

And because this has happened in the past, many times. Frankly, I think it's the Boston fans who are desperately trying to convince themselves that it isn't happening again.

BTW, Yanks won't ever have to get over .500 if Boston continues to play as recently; you guys will back the division title up right into our backyard.

I'll tell you, baseball would be a total bore if it wasn't for the Yanks/Sox rivalry...undoubtedly the best in sports.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I'll tell you, baseball would be a total bore if it wasn't for the Yanks/Sox rivalry...undoubtedly the best in sports.




Like no other rivalry in existence. Makes the season something I look forward to...I just cant understand why the yanks can't produce...why they keep buying BATS when what they need is PITCHERS and preferably ones that ARENT over 40.....not that there is anything wrong with that... ;-)

M


----------



## JimG. (Jun 8, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Like no other rivalry in existence. Makes the season something I look forward to...I just cant understand why the yanks can't produce...why they keep buying BATS when what they need is PITCHERS and preferably ones that ARENT over 40.....not that there is anything wrong with that... ;-)
> 
> M



Take a look at most of the contenders...most of them have to buy pitchers and most of them have an old starter or two. Pitching has changed alot in the past 30 years. 6-7 innings is all that's asked now. 

Baseball is a game of numbers, and as such it's a long season. I really do try to stay unmoved by whatever happens until August the earliest.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 11, 2007)

Well like i said last week the yanks would be in 2nd soon and be charging.. The sox had to come down to earth sooner or later, playing 700% baseball is imopossible, would have been nice to see them sweep AZ but ill take winning a series, yanks gained some ground sweeping, i think thats 9 out of 11 for them now, they have too much talent to keep playing that bad.  Like the sox though the yankees wont keep winning 9 out of 11 either, i think by July 1st it will be about 7-8 games, if the yanks could get that to 5 or less by the allstar break that would be a pretty remarkable feat.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 12, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> yanks gained some ground sweeping, i think thats 9 out of 11 for them now, they have too much talent to keep playing that bad.




Well said....

M


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 12, 2007)

Before you grant the yankees a playoff spot let alone the division lets let them at least get a few games over .500.  If the season continues as it started they will finish with 76 wins and the Sox will have 104.  to get to 90 wins which might not even make the playoffs they need to play .606 and to get to 97 which should get in but hasn't allways they need to play .654 the rest of the way, niether one is imposible but for a team that has been sub 500 for the first third of the season it isn't the rosiest outlook.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 12, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Before you grant the yankees a playoff spot let alone the division lets let them at least get a few games over .500.  If the season continues as it started they will finish with 76 wins and the Sox will have 104.  to get to 90 wins which might not even make the playoffs they need to play .606 and to get to 97 which should get in but hasn't allways they need to play .654 the rest of the way, niether one is imposible but for a team that has been sub 500 for the first third of the season it isn't the rosiest outlook.



Not if everyone else comes BACK towards them with shoddy play....Dont worry...its STILL a long season left...talk to me in August...we'll see whos where then...

M


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 12, 2007)

All we have to do is keep winning series.  
Boston has a good team but they usually take care of themselves.

GO YANKS


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 12, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Well said....
> 
> M



 Your funny dog, i look at it like this, if the redsox play 500 ball the rest of the way they will have 90 wins, thats going 50wins 50loses. i think we can all agree they will play better than 500 baseball so bare with me and give them 95 wins thats fair right? 55-45? Lets give the yanks a win tonite so the numbers are even, with that if they played 500 baseball after tonite they will have 81 wins. if they play 600 baseball 91 wins.  So basically the way i look at it is, 95 i feel is a safe number to make the playoffs, some teams like cleveland or the Tigers will have low 90's, but 95 should get you in, so the yankees need to go 64-36, the rest of the way.. 640 winning percentage.  Thats a tall order but with all that talent i cant say its out of the question.   640 is easy to do for say 50 games but for 100 games?? If u win 100 games which is the benchmark for a real real great season thats a 6.17 winning percentage. We shall see what happens.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> We shall see what happens.



You could have saved alot of typing and just written this.

Play the games...all the other mental diarrhea is meaningless.

This is the Yanks/Sox...ANYTHING can happen.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 13, 2007)

Thats true Jim, but i like numbers and odds, fascinates me for whatever reason.  While the Yanks have steadied the ship what the hell is going on with the Mets, and lets see if the yanks take at least 2 out of 3 from them i believe thats 5 straight series they will lose, its almost like the yanks game them their bad Karma and took the mets good vibes.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Thats true Jim, but i like numbers and odds, fascinates me for whatever reason.  While the Yanks have steadied the ship what the hell is going on with the Mets, and lets see if the yanks take at least 2 out of 3 from them i believe thats 5 straight series they will lose, its almost like the yanks game them their bad Karma and took the mets good vibes.



Just a bad stretch IMO...the Mets have had a few injuries and some of their bench players were forced into starting roles. Those guys are great on a fill in basis, but once pitchers see them for 3 weeks straight their numbers go downhill. The Mets will be OK.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 13, 2007)

I did manage to go to the Mets game last thursday, the tix were free and i wanted to check out the place before they tore it down.. Boy its not that bad there except for the Jets flying over.  Its much harder to watch a game at Fenway in my opinion with the angles, views, vendors and everyone else in your face.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I did manage to go to the Mets game last thursday, the tix were free and i wanted to check out the place before they tore it down.. Boy its not that bad there except for the Jets flying over.  Its much harder to watch a game at Fenway in my opinion with the angles, views, vendors and everyone else in your face.



When the Jets are flying over every 5 minutes it's not any fun.

It's not a hitters park either...MLB wants the offensive numbers to stay interesting and management knows offense brings in ticket sales.

Few perks there either and no corporate sky boxes or premium seating for the high rollers; that leaves alot on the table in terms of profit.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 13, 2007)

The jets were more like every 90seconds.. I did like the fact i spent the day in NYC and just hopped on the 7 train and walked about 300feet and was in my seat, that part was pretty cool.  Saw 3 fights in the stands between Mets fans themselves who all got thrown out, cmon now keep the peace your pulling for the same team, this was the game that Philly swept them.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Saw 3 fights in the stands between Mets fans themselves who all got thrown out, cmon now keep the peace your pulling for the same team, this was the game that Philly swept them.



Oh no, you must be mistaken! Those types of things never happen at friendly Shea stadium. Mets fans fighting! No, no, no. Mets fans are very polite and never curse or throw things or abuse visiting fans.

You must have been at Yankee Stadium because those things only happen there because of all the rude and mean Yankee fans.

Ask any Mets fan.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 13, 2007)

The fights didnt bother me, the fact it was between fans rooting for the same team is what shocked me.. How about Verlander last night, 1st pitch he throws in the 9th inning on his way to a no hitter is 102mph lol that guy is just sick


----------



## JimG. (Jun 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> The fights didnt bother me, the fact it was between fans rooting for the same team is what shocked me.. How about Verlander last night, 1st pitch he throws in the 9th inning on his way to a no hitter is 102mph lol that guy is just sick



FLG, you're obviously not a Mets fan. The whooshing noise you heard overheard wasn't a jet flying over.

I'm guessing a Mets fan will read my post eventually and chime in.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 14, 2007)

kickstand said:


> actually, it would go to percentage points, which still puts the Yankees in 4th place
> 
> even though Toronto is only 1 win ahead of the Yankees in terms of record, I don't see why anyone is even discussing this while NYY has a losing record.  Get up over .500 and this might be a worthwhile discussion.  Otherwise, it comes off as Yankee fans desperately trying to convince themselves there still is hope.



Checklist time:

Yankees out of 4th place and past Baltimore-check.
Yankees out of 3rd place and past Toronto-check.
Yankees at .500-check.
Yankees past .500-check.
Yankees won again last night, that's 8 straight-check.
Pitching staff coming alive, Mussina pitched a gem last night-check.
Yankee bats, like Abreau, coming alive-check.

Boston? Lost again last night to Colorado 12-2.

Hearing the footsteps yet? If not I suggest a few Q-tips to clean out your ears.

That 14 1/2 game lead from 2 weeks ago is down to 8 1/2.

Go out on a limb? Why not! I'll go on record as saying that if the Boston lead is down to 5 games at the All-Star break they will be lucky to get into the playoffs as a wildcard and that the Yanks will win the division easily.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 14, 2007)

Hey i never said they were not going to make a run, if Boston wins tonite they win 2 series in a row, thats all i care about, the yanks are hot, they are not gonna keep winning 8 ina row 10/12, thats how the sox were when they started the season now they are playing normal baseball and the yankees will again soon themselves thats just baseball.  Its not like the yankees are never going to lose a game in the standings again, just not when your winning 8 in a row, but i give them credit they got it done quickly i thought it would take a little longer.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 14, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hey i never said they were not going to make a run, if Boston wins tonite they win 2 series in a row, thats all i care about, the yanks are hot, they are not gonna keep winning 8 ina row 10/12, thats how the sox were when they started the season now they are playing normal baseball and the yankees will again soon themselves thats just baseball.  Its not like the yankees are never going to lose a game in the standings again, just not when your winning 8 in a row, but i give them credit they got it done quickly i thought it would take a little longer.



Reread my last post...I added a few wild predictions just to make things interesting.

Yanks/Sox...nothing beats it.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 14, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Go out on a limb? Why not! I'll go on record as saying that if the Boston lead is down to 5 games at the All-Star break they will be lucky to get into the playoffs as a wildcard and that the Yanks will win the division easily.




JIM im with ya on down to 5 games...maybe less....Boston has begun its yearly slide..

Seriously Boston would've been better off if they never won the Series.. Now they got no identity...nothing to complain about...just another team that plays baseball now..Cubs are the only team that can complain anymore.

The Yanks, though, can do as much chest thumping as they like...How many series?? Too many to count... 

M


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 14, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> The Yanks, though, can do as much chest thumping as they like...How many series?? Too many to count...
> 
> M




This century ------ lets see -----  That would be the big Zero ---- even as a sox fan I can count that high.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 14, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> This century ------ lets see -----  That would be the big Zero ---- even as a sox fan I can count that high.



I know I know...they've only won more than a QUARTER CENTURIES WORTH altogether....that means nothing i guess..

Keep holding onto that 1 you got over there in bean town...it'll be another 60+ years til the next...



M


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 14, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> I know I know...they've only won more than a QUARTER CENTURIES WORTH altogether....that means nothing i guess..
> 
> Keep holding onto that 1 you got over there in bean town...it'll be another 60+ years til the next...
> 
> ...



Thats like saying the Celtics are the best team in the NBA because of all of thier Championships.


----------



## Paul (Jun 14, 2007)

kewl math. 5+1=1

You can has Cheezburger now


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 14, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Thats like saying the Celtics are the best team in the NBA because of all of thier Championships.



Saying they havent won one this century is like saying Tiger Woods is on a downslide because he hasnt won a major this year...

Are the Yanks expected to win EVERY year? I dont think so....but they win it a LOT MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM....and I think in the last say 20 years have STILL won it more than any other team...NUFF SAID...

The Yankees ARE baseball....without them baseball would be a mere shadow of what it is now...their history is second to none..

M


----------



## JimG. (Jun 14, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Thats like saying the Celtics are the best team in the NBA because of all of thier Championships.



But the Celtics are recognized as the NBA team with the most championships by far (like the Yanks), the team that was a dynasty for over a decade (like the Yanks), a dynasty that won 8 straight championships (better than the Yanks ever did). They may not be good right now, but anyone who knows anything about the NBA will recognize the Celtics as the greatest NBA team ever.

And I'm a Knicks fan.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 14, 2007)

Paul said:


> kewl math. 5+1=1
> 
> You can has Cheezburger now



He needs brain food...his memory pre-1918 is a bit fuzzy.


----------



## Paul (Jun 14, 2007)

JimG. said:


> He needs brain food...his memory pre-1918 is a bit fuzzy.



Still count..mumble...mumble...


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 14, 2007)

JimG. said:


> He needs brain food...his memory pre-1918 is a bit fuzzy.



Was it the MLB then????? I knew they won a couple EARLY.......but 1918 - 2004 is a LONG DROUGHT...

Dont think the Yanks went that long without a title.....????

And I know...6 compared to 26...its still pretty close.... keep dreaming

HA..

M


----------



## Paul (Jun 14, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Was it the MLB then????? I knew they won a couple EARLY.......but 1918 - 2004 is a LONG DROUGHT...
> 
> Dont think the Yanks went that long without a title.....????
> 
> ...



Hey, just because they wore onions in their belts....


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 14, 2007)

Those are some strong statements.  Lets use the same logic on basketball and hockey.


Basketball


SkiDog said:


> Saying they havent won one this century is like saying Tiger Woods is on a downslide because he hasnt won a major this year...
> 
> Are the Celts expected to win EVERY year? I dont think so....but they win it a LOT MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM....and I think in the last say 30 years have STILL won it more than any other team...NUFF SAID...
> 
> ...





Hockey


SkiDog said:


> Saying they havent won one this century is like saying Tiger Woods is on a downslide because he hasnt won a major this year...
> 
> Are the Habs expected to win EVERY year? I dont think so....but they win it a LOT MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM....and I think in the last say 30 years have STILL won it more than any other team...NUFF SAID...
> 
> ...



Need I say more.  No but I will anyway.  Perhaps to a yankee/met or sox fan the sport would be a mere shadow but to everybody else they would love to see the same salary structure as the NFL so more teams could be competative.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 14, 2007)

JimG. said:


> But the Celtics are recognized as the NBA team with the most championships by far (like the Yanks), the team that was a dynasty for over a decade (like the Yanks), a dynasty that won 8 straight championships (better than the Yanks ever did). They may not be good right now, but anyone who knows anything about the NBA will recognize the Celtics as the greatest NBA team ever.
> 
> And I'm a Knicks fan.



  Unforuntely im a big Celts fan not much to cheer about, i wish they got the number one pic, its a sad thing that Durant and Oden will be somewhere in the Pacific Northwest and nobody will notice them, would have been nice to see either in a big city with a basketball tradition.  Hey im not gonna bitch about on the yankees havent won one in whatever years, im happy to have seen it in my lifetime as a sox fan, ive had many relatives die that never got to see what i saw in 2004 so im good with that of course i want more now.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 14, 2007)

we got another one.  I have to tell you it is so much more fun to watch when we are winning.

GO YANKS


Celtics have sucked since they went public.  How could a team with such a great history turn into what they are now.   Bostonites should kick them  out of town


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 15, 2007)

JIM, ill be the first to tell you i have concerns that the lead has been cut in half in 2 weeks, that was quick.. The only good news is the Yankees will lose 1 of the next 2 games, they have never had more than a 10game winning streak in the Joe Torre era.  They are playing damn good, AZ isnt a bad team and didnt even look like they belonged on the same field the last few days, umm Go Mets lol.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 15, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> How could a team with such a great history turn into what they are now.   Bostonites should kick them  out of town



Red Auerbach died.

The man defined the NBA for a generation.

What the NBA has become probably killed him.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 15, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> The only good news is the Yankees will lose 1 of the next 2 games, they have never had more than a 10game winning streak in the Joe Torre era.



To a Yankee fan that just means THEY'RE DUE.... 

M


----------



## JimG. (Jun 15, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> To a Yankee fan that just means THEY'RE DUE....
> 
> M



The Mets worry me...good team and they are definitely due for a win.

Everyone says the Mets are walking into a meat grinder. As soon as the Yankees believe that they're going to lose.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 15, 2007)

Jim i feel the Mets are in the same exact position the Yankees were last last time they played.  Its like role reversal in my opinion, there will be no sweeps, but the Yanks will probably take 2/3.


----------



## Rushski (Jun 16, 2007)

One for the Mets, hopefully Glavine can get one game closer to 300 today...


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 16, 2007)

Its just 1 game lets not get too worked up about it.. And 300 wins, honestly does a Met fan really care that glavine wins 300, i dont know of any, its not like hes wearing your cap when he goes in the Hall anyways.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

2 out of 3 like they had to do at the minimum. 

Anyone know the schedules the Yanks and Sox will be playing in the next 2 weeks?


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 18, 2007)

Don'tknow the sox schedule but we dont play a winning team for a while, I think its up to the allstar break.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Don'tknow the sox schedule but we dont play a winning team for a while, I think its up to the allstar break.



I thought the Yanks had a weak sched up until All-Star.

They need to pound those teams, win 4 out of every 5 games at least.

Wang looked really good last night. Mets couldn't even hit the pitches he left up.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 18, 2007)

Hearing those footsteps yet????

Mmmm YANKS

M


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Hearing those footsteps yet????
> 
> Mmmm YANKS
> 
> M



Actually, we lost 1/2 game...Bosox swept SF.

Mets were fortunate Perez pitched such a gem on Friday and shut the Yanks out.

Mets pitching folded after that.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Actually, we lost 1/2 game...Bosox swept SF.
> 
> Mets were fortunate Perez pitched such a gem on Friday and shut the Yanks out.
> 
> Mets pitching folded after that.



Yeah but we're still winning...Man being out here in the west I only get to see the big ticket games now....glad I got to watch this weekend.

M


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Actually, we lost 1/2 game...Bosox swept SF.
> 
> Mets were fortunate Perez pitched such a gem on Friday and shut the Yanks out.
> 
> Mets pitching folded after that.




We were hitting some hard shots but the outfielders were all over everything.  How about that shot in Left field.  Why that fan did not put his hand out and knock that ball away is crazy.  He could have caught that ball and it would have been a double.  He stood back with his arms spread out like he was doing something good. I am sure his friends are all over him about that.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> We were hitting some hard shots but the outfielders were all over everything.  How about that shot in Left field.  Why that fan did not put his hand out and knock that ball away is crazy.  He could have caught that ball and it would have been a double.  He stood back with his arms spread out like he was doing something good. I am sure his friends are all over him about that.



A-hole is absolutely on fire. I still don't like him, but when he's putting up numbers like he has this season it sure softens the blow of having him on our team. He looks alot bigger this season, must be the HGH. And I really wish John Sterling would just be quiet...I hate that "A-bomb by A-rod" thing. I guess I should be glad I have to listen to it over and over. 

I really didn't want Clemens the mercenary back, and if the Yanks were going to lose I was glad it was when he was pitching.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> A-hole is absolutely on fire. I still don't like him, but when he's putting up numbers like he has this season it sure softens the blow of having him on our team. He looks alot bigger this season, must be the HGH. And I really wish John Sterling would just be quiet...I hate that "A-bomb by A-rod" thing. I guess I should be glad I have to listen to it over and over.
> 
> I really didn't want Clemens the mercenary back, and if the Yanks were going to lose I was glad it was when he was pitching.




Sorry, JimG, but I don't get Yankee fans who berate A-Rod.  Yeah, sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion blah blah, but, you are wrong, he's the absolute best.  He has some interesting quirks, but he's human, and he's playing out of his mind (and out of his position) for us Yankee fans.  I for one am very thankful and appreciative of his play.  He's the anti-Bonds on so many different levels....

As far as Clemens goes, he's a legend, the best ever (yes, arguably), and he's happy to be a Yankee.  He helped the Yankees win four pennants and two World Series, so I don't really understand the hate.  He might be a mercenary, but who isn't?  Besides a precious few players, most Yankees are (although less than the Red Sox!!).

Let's spread the love.  And not say negative things about the Yanks on a board with (I imagine) mostly Red Sox fans!

Last comment. Sorry, this is a bit of a downer, but it's a real issue, I think.  I agree that the whole "bomb" thing must stop.  I find all military references to home runs (or touchdowns, for that matter) to be extremely distasteful and disrepectful to those in the military and the civilian population that experiences real bombs.  A home run is not a "bomb."  A bomb explodes and kills people.  A home run does not.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 18, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Sorry, JimG, but I don't get Yankee fans who berate A-Rod.  Yeah, sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion blah blah, but, you are wrong, he's the absolute best.  He has some interesting quirks, but he's human, and he's playing out of his mind (and out of his position) for us Yankee fans.  I for one am very thankful and appreciative of his play.  He's the anti-Bonds on so many different levels....
> 
> As far as Clemens goes, he's a legend, the best ever (yes, arguably), and he's happy to be a Yankee.  He helped the Yankees win four pennants and two World Series, so I don't really understand the hate.  He might be a mercenary, but who isn't?  Besides a precious few players, most Yankees are (although less than the Red Sox!!).
> 
> ...


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Sorry, JimG, but I don't get Yankee fans who berate A-Rod.  Yeah, sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion blah blah, but, you are wrong, he's the absolute best.  He has some interesting quirks, but he's human, and he's playing out of his mind (and out of his position) for us Yankee fans.  I for one am very thankful and appreciative of his play.  He's the anti-Bonds on so many different levels....
> 
> As far as Clemens goes, he's a legend, the best ever (yes, arguably), and he's happy to be a Yankee.  He helped the Yankees win four pennants and two World Series, so I don't really understand the hate.  He might be a mercenary, but who isn't?  Besides a precious few players, most Yankees are (although less than the Red Sox!!).
> 
> ...



"Hate" and "berate" are 2 pretty strong words...I sure didn't mean to say I hate A-rod, I don't even know him. I just think he does things that make life difficult for himself in the Big Apple. Like the whole sitting in the window in the restaurant thing a few weeks ago. He really loves himself alot. Makes a bit of an ass of himself. So I call him "A-hole". Right now, I'm not sorry he's on our team though.

Not a Clemens fan...I still think of him as a Red Sox. Not a team player, a mercenary out for the money. Is it coincidence the Yanks were knocking the walls apart and then scored zilch for his start, then trashed the Mets again the next 2 days? He needs to get humble and be a part of the team.

And I agree about the "A-bomb" part...tasteless.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 18, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Yeah but we're still winning...Man being out here in the west I only get to see the big ticket games now....glad I got to watch this weekend.
> 
> M




SkiDog,

There are ways around that problem....

You can buy individual games or the full season at MLB.com.  Or, if you have someone back East you could hook one up to, get a SlingBox and stream games over the internet from that person's cable box.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> "Hate" and "berate" are 2 pretty strong words...I sure didn't mean to say I hate A-rod, I don't even know him. I just think he does things that make life difficult for himself in the Big Apple. Like the whole sitting in the window in the restaurant thing a few weeks ago. He really loves himself alot. Makes a bit of an ass of himself. So I call him "A-hole". Right now, I'm not sorry he's on our team though.
> 
> Not a Clemens fan...I still think of him as a Red Sox. Not a team player, a mercenary out for the money. Is it coincidence the Yanks were knocking the walls apart and then scored zilch for his start, then trashed the Mets again the next 2 days? He needs to get humble and be a part of the team.
> 
> And I agree about the "A-bomb" part...tasteless.




I think A-rod has communication problems and that is where a lot of his problems come from.  

What about Giambi?  Is he staying?  I like him and want him to stay.  He should learn how to bunt to keep teams honest.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 18, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> SkiDog,
> 
> There are ways around that problem....
> 
> You can buy individual games or the full season at MLB.com.  Or, if you have someone back East you could hook one up to, get a SlingBox and stream games over the internet from that person's cable box.




Thanks for he suggestions, however im outdoors a LOT more out here now. Sunset is at 9:07PM today here which means its still light out til like nearly 10PM so I do stuff outside...

I catch what I can when I can...and am happy enough with that I guess....we make sacrifices to live where it makes us feel better...

M


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 18, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> Thanks for he suggestions, however im outdoors a LOT more out here now. Sunset is at 9:07PM today here which means its still light out til like nearly 10PM so I do stuff outside...
> 
> I catch what I can when I can...and am happy enough with that I guess....we make sacrifices to live where it makes us feel better...
> 
> M



Well, if you can keep from checking the scores, you've got options.  You can watch recorded games on MLB.com, or, if you can get a SlingBox set up with a friend or family member, just make sure they have a DVR and you can record the games and watch them at your convenience (SlingBox lets you control the DVR remotely).


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 18, 2007)

A-rod , ya know what he does that annoys the hell out of me, looks in the dugout before he throws the bat everytime he hits a homerun at home, was funny against the sox a few weeks back when he did that and the wind kept it in the yard for a 400 ft out. .Besides that how can you not like him.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> 2 out of 3 like they had to do at the minimum.
> 
> Anyone know the schedules the Yanks and Sox will be playing in the next 2 weeks?



Here ya go Jim

Yanks.
Tue, 6/19 at Rockies 9:05p MY9, MLB.TV Mussina (3-3) Fogg (2-5) Buy 
Wed, 6/20 at Rockies 9:05p YES, MLB.TV Pettitte (4-4) Francis (6-5) Buy 
Thu, 6/21 at Rockies 3:05p YES, MLB.TV Clemens (1-1) Lopez (3-0) Buy 
Fri, 6/22 at Giants 10:15p YES, MLB.TV Igawa (2-1) Cain (2-7) Buy 
Sat, 6/23 at Giants 3:55p FOX, MLB.TV Wang (7-4) Morris (7-4) Buy 
Sun, 6/24 at Giants 4:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Tue, 6/26 at Orioles 7:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Wed, 6/27 at Orioles 7:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Thu, 6/28 at Orioles 7:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Fri, 6/29 Athletics 7:05p MY9, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sat, 6/30 Athletics 1:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sun, 7/1 Athletics 1:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Mon, 7/2 Twins 7:05p YES, ESPN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Tue, 7/3 Twins 7:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Wed, 7/4 Twins 1:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Thu, 7/5 Twins 1:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Fri, 7/6 Angels 7:05p YES, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sat, 7/7 Angels 3:55p FOX, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sun, 7/8 Angels 1:05p YES, MLB.TV 

 Sox
Date Opponent Time Broadcast Probable Pitcher Opposing Pitcher Tickets 
Mon, 6/18 at Braves 7:05p NESN, ESPN, MLB.TV Schilling (6-3) James (5-6) Buy 
Tue, 6/19 at Braves 7:35p NESN, MLB.TV Beckett (9-1) Hudson (6-4) Buy 
Wed, 6/20 at Braves 7:35p NESN, ESPN, MLB.TV Tavarez (4-4) Carlyle (1-1) Buy 
Fri, 6/22 at Padres 10:05p NESN, MLB.TV Matsuzaka (8-5) Young (6-3) Buy 
Sat, 6/23 at Padres 10:05p NESN, MLB.TV   Maddux (6-3) Buy 
Sun, 6/24 at Padres 4:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Mon, 6/25 at Mariners 10:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Tue, 6/26 at Mariners 10:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Wed, 6/27 at Mariners 4:35p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Fri, 6/29 Rangers 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sat, 6/30 Rangers 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sun, 7/1 Rangers 2:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Mon, 7/2 Rangers 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Tue, 7/3 Devil Rays 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Wed, 7/4 Devil Rays 1:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Thu, 7/5 Devil Rays 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Fri, 7/6 at Tigers 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sat, 7/7 at Tigers 7:05p NESN, MLB.TV     Buy 
Sun, 7/8 at Tigers 1:05p NESN, MLB.TV


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 18, 2007)

Well i guess the yankees and redsox have figured out where to get decent players now if your farm system sucks, from the yanks website today.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news...t_id=2033868&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Here ya go Jim
> 
> Yanks.
> Tue, 6/19 at Rockies 9:05p MY9, MLB.TV Mussina (3-3) Fogg (2-5) Buy
> ...



Thank you.

Honestly, everything after the Orioles worries me, especially the Angels...Yanks have to beat them this time around. And the A's always give the Yanks problems unless it's the playoffs. At least all these games are at the Stadium.

I don't think the Bosox sched is any tougher or easier. Good.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> A-rod , ya know what he does that annoys the hell out of me, looks in the dugout before he throws the bat everytime he hits a homerun at home, was funny against the sox a few weeks back when he did that and the wind kept it in the yard for a 400 ft out. .Besides that how can you not like him.



Yeah, but you're a Red Sox fan and you have a reason to dislike him, even though the reason that deal was scuttled was as much because of the MLBPA as A-rod.

Nothing worse than being scorned by a prima donna.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yeah, but you're a Red Sox fan and you have a reason to dislike him, even though the reason that deal was scuttled was as much because of the MLBPA as A-rod.
> 
> Nothing worse than being scorned by a prima donna.




You've got to be kidding me, JimG!!  I'm not really mad at you, I'm just incredibly irritated by how many people think the same thing as you do....

A-Rod offered to take some money off of the table and the union wouldn't allow it.  The Red Sox ownership then wouldn't chip in the extra extra few million to get the deal done.  The same ownership that cried "poverty" then signed Dice-K to over a hundred million without him having ever thrown a pitch in the majors (he might still be good, but that was quite the Yankee-like gamble), the same ownership that gave JDL Drew 70 million and the same ownership that continues to throw tens of millions of dollars at SS with little to show for it.  

The only people Red Sox fans should criticize regarding the botched A-Rod signing is their ownership, not A-Rod.  The slap in 2004 was a little weak, but, come on, that was 2004!  The Sox won.  

Anyone that would shift positions to accomodate the clearly inferior player (no disrespect to Jeter, he's worse than A-Rod, but he's still good), and put up with NY media (and fans) to play for his dream team is no prima donna.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 18, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> You've got to be kidding me, JimG!!  I'm not really mad at you, I'm just incredibly irritated by how many people think the same thing as you do....
> 
> A-Rod offered to take some money off of the table and the union wouldn't allow it.  The Red Sox ownership then wouldn't chip in the extra extra few million to get the deal done.  The same ownership that cried "poverty" then signed Dice-K to over a hundred million without him having ever thrown a pitch in the majors (he might still be good, but that was quite the Yankee-like gamble), the same ownership that gave JDL Drew 70 million and the same ownership that continues to throw tens of millions of dollars at SS with little to show for it.
> 
> ...



We think differently.

I don't think A-rod is better than Jeter. Jeter is a winner, so far A-rod is not. He puts up big numbers, just like Barry Bonds who has also never won a championship. I like winners.

I believe I said that the MLBPA was partly responsible for the deal falling through. A player take less money? But don't paint A-rod as a victim either. I don't believe he ever marketed his services at a discount. He wanted out of Texas, but he never rebuked the MLBPA or have any comment on that deal as I recall. The fact he wound up with the Yankees proves he wanted someone to show him the money.

Look, his talent and numbers deserve top pay in a ridiculously inflated pay scale. I don't take away from him his talent and accomplishments. But like someone intelligently pointed out, his communication skills are somewhat lacking. He wants to be liked, but the things that come out of his mouth have little resonance with the common Joe who is a Yankee fan.

See, you say he has to "put up" with the fans. That's A-rod and it's why I call him a prima donna. Jeter doesn't have to put up with the fans and media, he works them to polish his image. A-rod wants NY to embrace and love him, but that's reserved for winners here. Jeter has earned the lifetime love with 4 rings. A-rod not yet.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> We think differently.
> 
> I don't think A-rod is better than Jeter. Jeter is a winner, so far A-rod is not. He puts up big numbers, just like Barry Bonds who has also never won a championship. I like winners.
> 
> ...




 Jims right on this one, Jeter is a winner and can play for my team anyday. Just look at it like this, if its the 9inning of a playoff game and you have 2 outs and a guy on 3rd and need a hit, are you really telling me that you would want a-rod who will try so hard to win the game with a homer and probably strike out up? No thx ill take Jeter and a single to right field everytime.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Jims right on this one, Jeter is a winner and can play for my team anyday. Just look at it like this, if its the 9inning of a playoff game and you have 2 outs and a guy on 3rd and need a hit, are you really telling me that you would want a-rod who will try so hard to win the game with a homer and probably strike out up? No thx ill take Jeter and a single to right field everytime.




Fair enough.  But, baseball is a 9 inning game.  Over the course of the season, you're more likely to be be ahead in the 9th inning with A-Rod on your team then hoping to come back in the "clutch" with Jeter.  There's only 1 at bat in the 9th, but several more throughout the game.  Not to mention the number of runs A-Rod saves on defense compared to Jeter....

At any rate, a lot of what we're debating here is perception.  Let's look at the facts.  Below are some key stats I think one would look to for "clutch" hitting, when you have men on and 2 outs or men on 3rd and less than 2 outs (Yahoo doesn't publish stats for men on 3rd, 2 outs).  What's surprising to me is how complementary the players are.  Jeter gets on base more often, but A-Rod gets on base a lot and with a lot more power.  A-Rod is more productive with his hits in terms of RBIs (partially a function of his place in the batting order), but Jeter definitely has fewer strikeouts.  However, I just don't see how one can say DEFINITELY they'd want Jeter in the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs and Damon on 3rd.

                                     AB     H    HR    RBI    BB    K   AVG    OBP    SLG    OPS 

Jeter:
Men on, 2 outs               40      20     2      19     8      3    .500     .592    .775     1.367 
Man on 3rd, < 2 outs       9        5      0       9      3      0    .556     .615    .556     1.171 

A-Rod:
Men on, 2 outs               61      23    13     40     6      10  .377      .457   1.049    1.506   
Man on 3rd, < 2 outs      10      5       1      14     4       2   .500      .526    .900     1.426   


I'm not a Jeter hater by any means.  He's great.  But, he's no simply not A-Rod.  The whole "winner" argument is a joke, IMHO.  More so than basketball or football, it takes a team to win in baseball, and just because he won some rings doesn't make him a "winner" and A-Rod a "loser."  I also don't think he's a leader.  A leader would have diffused this idiotic A-Rod/Jeter debate a long time ago.  That's not saying that A-Rod is a leader, but he doesn't have to be.  Jeter is supposed to be "The Captain (TM)".  He stuck up for 'roid boy Giambi, but he doesn't for A-Rod?  A sign of insecurity and weakness in my book.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 19, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> AB     H    HR    RBI    BB    K   AVG    OBP    SLG    OPS
> 
> Jeter:
> Men on, 2 outs               40      20     2      19     8      3    .500     .592    .775     1.367
> ...



Eeeek!  Sorry about that.  I spaced things out nicely before posting this, but the system crunched everything together.

If you really care to, you can check the data out at here.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 19, 2007)

Again, A-rod wins the sheer numbers game. But that in itself does not make him better than Jeter in my book. 

The things that make Jeter better are things like diving into the stands to catch a foul ball and coming out with a bloody face, or cutting off a throw to the plate and then, in one smooth motion, backhanding the ball to Posada who applies the tag for the out. I've never seen A-rod do anything like that.

As for Jeter defending A-rod or welcoming him to NY with open arms, didn't A-rod tweak Jeter when he signed his big contract with Texas? Something about Jeter not being good enough to carry his jock? Again, A-rod opens mouth and inserts foot. But now he wants Jeter to embrace him? Did A-rod ever apologize or address the issue with Jeter like a man? Again, A-rod's worst enemy is A-rod.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 19, 2007)

As of right now it is silly to compare A-rod to Jeter as to who is the better Yankee.  There is no comparison.  Jeter is MR YANKEE!!!!

Now if A-rod sticks around for the next 10 years he could possibly rise up to the level of Jeter.


As far as who is the better baseball player I thinks the stats will point to A-rod,  that said stats dont tell the whole story.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Again, A-rod wins the sheer numbers game. But that in itself does not make him better than Jeter in my book.
> 
> The things that make Jeter better are things like diving into the stands to catch a foul ball and coming out with a bloody face, or cutting off a throw to the plate and then, in one smooth motion, backhanding the ball to Posada who applies the tag for the out. I've never seen A-rod do anything like that.
> 
> As for Jeter defending A-rod or welcoming him to NY with open arms, didn't A-rod tweak Jeter when he signed his big contract with Texas? Something about Jeter not being good enough to carry his jock? Again, A-rod opens mouth and inserts foot. But now he wants Jeter to embrace him? Did A-rod ever apologize or address the issue with Jeter like a man? Again, A-rod's worst enemy is A-rod.




I was at "the dive" game.  It was awesome.  A great memory and a great extra innings victory over the Red Sox.

Jeter has definitely cornered the market on signature plays.  Of course, the two you mentioned happened in years (2001 and 2004) the Yankees didn't win the World Series....:wink:


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 19, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> As of right now it is silly to compare A-rod to Jeter as to who is the better Yankee.  There is no comparison.  Jeter is MR YANKEE!!!!



I have to agree 100% with you on that one.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, we've run the risk of boring Red Sox fans with our Yankee chat here, so let's get back to more important matters.

Sox gave back another 1/2 game last night, ugly loss to the Braves 9-4.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 19, 2007)

Ya last night was ugly for the sox i watched that, besides a few solo hr's they couldnt get anyone on base.  Back to that numbers thing again real quick with Arod and Jeter, i think Jim will agree with me on this one.   Beckett has great numbers this year , and we saw schilling get beat up last night and not even have a strikeout, however if there was a game in the playoffs and the sox were down say 2-1 in a 5 game series , you would want schilling on the mound, hes a big game pitcher just as Jeter is a big game hitter.. The truly great ones rise to the occassion when it counts most, October, not when its June and they are just piling up numbers.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 19, 2007)

IN other words give me A-rod april-sept, give me schilling and Jeter in October when it matters


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 19, 2007)

And the yankees are only 7 games out, you gotta go by the loses in baseball not the wins. 25 for the sox 32 for the yanks


----------



## JimG. (Jun 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> And the yankees are only 7 games out, you gotta go by the loses in baseball not the wins. 25 for the sox 32 for the yanks



FLG, you are an extremely accomodating Red Sox fan.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 19, 2007)

Hey its just the truth.  I always judge games back by loses because some teams have played a few more games than others usually during the season.   By the way Jim, a girl i went to High School with, her best friend met and is dating Joe Torre's agent, maybe ill hook ya up with tickets if your nice to me for a sox, yanks game in late August.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hey its just the truth.  I always judge games back by loses because some teams have played a few more games than others usually during the season.   By the way Jim, a girl i went to High School with, her best friend met and is dating Joe Torre's agent, maybe ill hook ya up with tickets if your nice to me for a sox, yanks game in late August.



OK.

Buddy.

Friend.

Nicest Sox fan I ever met.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> OK.
> 
> Buddy.
> 
> ...



 Uh huh, guess i might as well give em to somebody, i was just gonna throw them on ebay as usual lol


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> IN other words give me A-rod april-sept, give me schilling and Jeter in October when it matters




SCHILLING?!?!?

Oh boy.

uke:


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 19, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> SCHILLING?!?!?
> 
> Oh boy.
> 
> uke:



 And what is your problem with that statement?  If you would rather have Clemens in a big game instead of Schilling your just an idiot, i recall that huge playoff game against Pedro  in Fenway when Clemens gave up 9runs  as proof of this.


----------



## SKIER4LIFE1281 (Jun 19, 2007)

YANKEES RULE

26 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS
RED SOX NOT EVEN A QUARTER OF THAT


iT IS STILL EARLY AND THE YANKEES ARE SLOWLY CLIMBING


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 20, 2007)

Man what is it about the Rockies, they took 2 from the sox now hold the yanks to 1 run?? I went to a game last year at coors field, rockies, astros, walked up on a sunday afternoon and sat 19rows behind the 3rd base dugout.. Its just too family out there for me, something to do on a sunday afternoon, unfortunately the people out there have no idea about real baseball, rivalries, what not, ive also been to Invesco for a broncos game, totally different feel, they like the Broncos how we like the mets, yanks, sox,etc..


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 20, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> And what is your problem with that statement?  If you would rather have Clemens in a big game instead of Schilling your just an idiot, i recall that huge playoff game against Pedro  in Fenway when Clemens gave up 9runs  as proof of this.




Somebody's been eating too many chemically altered Doritos....


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 20, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> And what is your problem with that statement?  If you would rather have Clemens in a big game instead of Schilling your just an idiot, i recall that huge playoff game against Pedro  in Fenway when Clemens gave up 9runs  as proof of this.




When you play in as many playoff games as clemens you are bound to have bad one.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 20, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Somebody's been eating too many chemically altered Doritos....



 I dont even work there anymore.  Clemens i think is 12-8 in the playoffs. Id take John Smoltz over him 15-4 in the playoffs.  How can you root for  a guy who is as protected as him? Geez can he pitch against the Mets once where he might actually have to stand in the batters box.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 20, 2007)

I hate these mid-season western NL road trips.

That was a bad loss...and it wasn't Mussina's fault. No offense.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 20, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Geez can he pitch against the Mets once where he might actually have to stand in the batters box.



FLG, he did. And the Mets pitcher beaned him.

Oops, sorry, the pitcher hit him in the butt.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 20, 2007)

Hey be the judge for yourself for postseason numbers here they are, Clemens.

1986     Boston Red Sox 1 1 3.97 5 5 0 0 0 --- 34.0 31 17 15 1 --- 13 28 
1988     Boston Red Sox 0 0 3.86 1 1 0 0 0 --- 7.0 6 3 3 1 --- 0 8 
1990     Boston Red Sox 0 1 3.52 2 2 0 0 0 --- 7.2 7 3 3 0 --- 5 4 
1995     Boston Red Sox 0 0 3.86 1 1 0 0 0 --- 7.0 5 3 3 0 0 1 5 
1999     New York Yankees 2 1 3.24 3 3 0 0 0 0 16.2 13 6 6 1 0 6 8 
2000     New York Yankees 2 2 3.21 4 4 1 1 0 0 28.0 16 10 10 1 1 10 34 
2001     New York Yankees 1 1 2.36 5 5 0 0 0 0 26.2 20 7 7 1 3 12 32 
2002     New York Yankees 0 0 6.35 1 1 0 0 0 0 5.2 8 4 4 1 0 3 5 
2003     New York Yankees 2 0 3.52 4 4 0 0 0 0 23.0 24 10 9 4 0 3 19 
2004     Houston Astros 2 1 3.60 4 4 0 0 0 0 25.0 22 11 10 4 0 10 21 
2005     Houston Astros 2 1 5.63 4 3 0 0 0 0 16.0 17 10 10 2 0 5 8 

Career Totals 12-8 era 3.66 34 33 1 1 0 --- 196.2 169 84 80 16 --- 68 172 

Schilling, not as many appearances as Clemens but much better.
1993     Philadelphia Phillies 1 1 2.59 4 4 1 1 0 --- 31.1 24 11 9 2 --- 10 28 
2001     Arizona Diamondbacks 4 0 1.12 6 6 3 1 0 0 48.1 25 6 6 3 1 6 56 
2002     Arizona Diamondbacks 0 0 1.29 1 1 0 0 0 0 7.0 7 1 1 1 1 1 7 
2004     Boston Red Sox 3 1 3.57 4 4 0 0 0 0 22.2 23 11 9 3 0 5 13 

Career Totals 8-2 era 2.06 15 15 4 2 0 --- 109.1 79 29 25 9 --- 22 104 

and Smoltz 


SEASON  TEAM  W  L  ERA  G  GS  CG  SHO  SV  SVO  IP  H  R  ER  HR  HBP  BB  SO 
1991     Atlanta Braves 2 0 1.52 4 4 1 1 0 --- 29.2 27 5 5 3 --- 4 26 
1992     Atlanta Braves 3 0 2.67 5 5 0 0 0 --- 33.2 27 12 10 1 --- 17 31 
1993     Atlanta Braves 0 1 0.00 1 1 0 0 0 --- 6.1 8 2 0 0 --- 5 10 
1995     Atlanta Braves 0 0 6.60 3 3 0 0 0 --- 15.0 18 11 11 2 --- 5 12 
1996     Atlanta Braves 4 1 0.95 5 5 0 0 0 --- 38.0 22 5 4 0 --- 13 33 
1997     Atlanta Braves 1 1 3.60 2 2 1 0 0 --- 15.0 8 6 6 2 --- 6 20 
1998     Atlanta Braves 1 0 2.95 3 3 0 0 0 --- 21.1 18 7 7 3 --- 6 19 
1999     Atlanta Braves 1 1 5.16 5 3 0 0 1 1 22.2 20 13 13 4 1 6 22 
2001     Atlanta Braves 0 0 1.29 5 0 0 0 2 2 7.0 3 1 1 1 0 0 4 
2002     Atlanta Braves 0 0 2.70 2 0 0 0 0 0 3.1 2 1 1 1 0 2 7 
2003     Atlanta Braves 1 0 6.00 2 0 0 0 1 2 3.0 4 2 2 0 0 0 1 
2004     Atlanta Braves 1 0 0.00 2 0 0 0 0 0 5.0 4 0 0 0 0 2 4 
2005     Atlanta Braves 1 0 1.29 1 1 0 0 0 0 7.0 7 1 1 0 0 1 5 
Career Totals 15-4 era 2.65 40 27 2 1 4 --- 207.0 168 66 61 17 --- 67 194


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 20, 2007)

JimG. said:


> FLG, he did. And the Mets pitcher beaned him.
> 
> Oops, sorry, the pitcher hit him in the butt.



 Ya i do recall that, i think the guy threw it behind him a couple of feet, still he could have pitches 2 weeks ago in Fenway i just feel they protect him too much, dont wanna damage his ego if he has a bad start


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 20, 2007)

it will be fun to see him suckin oxygen tomorrow, i dont think he will make it out of the 5th even if he it pitching well


----------



## Paul (Jun 20, 2007)

SKIER4LIFE1281 said:


> YANKEES RULE
> 
> 26 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS
> RED SOX NOT EVEN A QUARTER OF THAT
> ...



I guess there's no need to discuss further after this very insightful response.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 20, 2007)

Its not that early anymore in 2 weeks the season is half done


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Checklist time:
> 
> Yankees out of 4th place and past Baltimore-check.
> Yankees out of 3rd place and past Toronto-check.
> ...




Since i enjoyed Jim G's checklist last week so much i figured why not visit it again after the mighty yankees have scored 2 runs in 2 games in  probably the best hitting ball park in mlb.


Yanks 1 more loss and back to .500 check
Yanks going to lose a series to the rockies as the redsox did   check
Yanks hoping an old man whos gonna need oxygen tomorrow earns his 1millions dollars per start or they might go into a tail spin   check
Yanks have increased their defecit in the AL to double digits, 10games  check


If your still in double digits come the all-star break i think your done for the division.. YOu need to concentrate on these standings in the meantime.

Wild Card.
Team W L PCT GB E# L10 STRK LAST GAME NEXT GAME 
Cleveland 42 29 .592 - - 5-5 W1 6/20 v PHI, W 10-6 6/22 @ WSH, 7:05P 
Detroit 42 29 .592 - - 7-3 W4 6/20 @ WSH, W 8-4 6/22 @ ATL, 7:35P 
Oakland 39 32 .549 3.0 89 6-4 W1 6/20 v CIN, W 5-3 6/22 @ NYM, 7:10P 
Seattle 35 32 .522 5.0 89 4-6 L6 6/19 v PIT, L 3-5 6/20 v PIT, LIVE  
Minnesota 36 34 .514 5.5 87 7-3 W2 6/20 @ NYM, W 6-2 6/22 @ FLA, 7:05P 
New York 35 34 .507 6.0 87 8-2 L2 6/20 @ COL, L 1-6 6/21 @ COL, 3:05P 
Toronto 34 36 .486 7.5 85 6-4 W1 6/20 v LAD, W 12-1 6/21 v LAD, 7:07P 
Tampa Bay 31 39 .443 10.5 82 4-6 L2 6/20 @ ARI, L 4-7 6/22 v LAD, 7:10P 
Chicago 29 39 .426 11.5 82 3-7 L2 6/20 v FLA, L 4-5 6/22 v CHC, 4:05P 
Baltimore 29 41 .414 12.5 80 1-9 L9 6/19 @ SD, L 6-12 6/20 @ SD, LIVE  
Kansas City 29 43 .403 13.5 78 6-4 L1 6/19 @ STL, L 1-5 6/20 @ STL, LIVE  
Texas 27 44 .380 15.0 77 5-5 W1 6/20 v CHC, W 7-3 6/21 v CHC, 2:05P


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

Undoubtedly 2 very bad losses.

They need to win the next 3-4 games.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 21, 2007)

How bout them Rockies.  It looks like the Yanks have had there run, it's time to put a fork in them they are done.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> How bout them Rockies.  It looks like the Yanks have had there run, it's time to put a fork in them they are done.



OK...whatever you say.

You better hope your team doesn't think that way though.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> How bout them Rockies.  It looks like the Yanks have had there run, it's time to put a fork in them they are done.



 Dude cmon thats just a ridiculous statement, Jim knows im having fun with him and i expect a Post allstar break charge once again from the Yanks, another 9/10 or so.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Dude cmon thats just a ridiculous statement, Jim knows im having fun with him and i expect a Post allstar break charge once again from the Yanks, another 9/10 or so.



Hey, Yankees are still a flawed team. These interleague games really show up the fact that they have a poor bench. Very poor. And the bullpen is a mere shell of it's former glory.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Hey, Yankees are still a flawed team. These interleague games really show up the fact that they have a poor bench. Very poor. And the bullpen is a mere shell of it's former glory.



 I look at it like this the Rockies got so jazzed up to play the yanks and sox they are just playing their world series now, which explains why they still wont make the playoffs, after these big series they just dont get pumped up for the games anymore.. Having no DH really changes the strategy when ive watched these interleague games.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I look at it like this the Rockies got so jazzed up to play the yanks and sox they are just playing their world series now, which explains why they still wont make the playoffs, after these big series they just dont get pumped up for the games anymore.. Having no DH really changes the strategy when ive watched these interleague games.



Don't dismiss the Rockies so easily...they have the best record in baseball over the past month or so and they have won something like 6-7 series in a row.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Don't dismiss the Rockies so easily...they have the best record in baseball over the past month or so and they have won something like 6-7 series in a row.



 Wow they have won 9 series in a row with a 4 game split with StL in the middle, pretty impressive.  Hey ive watched a game in Coors field, nice place,great seating to watch a game,  nice fans, just not real baseball to me, too family.  This is the same team that was giving up Helton to the sox in the beginning of the year.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

Im curious the Mets who well wow are in a serious tailspin will be in Colorado July 4th weekend, im curious to see how many people they draw there on  a weekend, versus the yankees selling out the place during the middle of the week, with the Rockies charging 75 dollars for a 37 dollar ticket, nice lol.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 21, 2007)

The rockies are turning there season around.  They are young and starting to figure out that they are good.  That said,  With our payroll we have to hit the ball.  Screw our bullpen get some runs.

If we loose a game when we score 7  then I will get after the pitching.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree with ya, i think Jim and other Yankee fans will agree, the redsox are not really missing Damon, maybe last year but he is deteriorating right before our eyes now, i think hes done as a good player and fielder.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Dude cmon thats just a ridiculous statement, Jim knows im having fun with him and i expect a Post allstar break charge once again from the Yanks, another 9/10 or so.




and I just enjoy a little poking at yankee fans.  Why, just look at this thread,  They go on a short tear against the NL aka AAA and because they have won an ungodly amount of world series they 

1. are the be all and end all of baseball
2. are still the best team in all of baseball
3. will just turn it on on thier schedule and blow past not only the 5 teams ahead of them for the wildcard but the team with the best record in baseball for the division

Now lets look at the Yanks

Offense - very good - one of the best in the league with 2 negatives Giambi off the juice is not producing and maybe out for the year anyway and Damon who's big offense has allways been speed has bum wheels.

Defense  Jeter - one of the best current if not all time
Matsui- very good
Posada - very good
Mientkiewicz excellent defense week offense  oops on DL
A-rod - week
Damon  the statement looks like jesus throws like mary is pretty accurate

Starters

Wang is doing quite well
Petite and Mussina are not having good years
Clemens is YTBD but he has only been a 5 or 6 inning pitcher the last few years and then on to the bullpen

Bullpen - beside Rivera who is at the end of a great carreer but isn't the pitcher he was even a couple of years ago. Who is in there


Thus pitching is why they are done and probably won't even challange for a wild card.  I would love to see them have another playoff series with the sox.  The last one was fantastick, even better then the sox's world series win.  When they are both playing well the best game in baseball is sox/yanks, even reg season


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> and I just enjoy a little poking at yankee fans.  Why, just look at this thread,  They go on a short tear against the NL aka AAA and because they have won an ungodly amount of world series they
> 
> 1. are the be all and end all of baseball
> 2. are still the best team in all of baseball
> ...




Hey to say they will win the AL east will be hard but i still dont count them out yet, if its 10games on August 15th then i will, but to say they are out of the wildcard race , cmon, Detroit and Cleveland have tons of games left with eachother, they will just beating eachother, what im saying is if they have 10games left and go 5-5 against eachother and the yanks go 8-2 during that time they make on 3 games on whoever is in the Wild card lead.  Seattle, forget it, Minnesota, well they have a great pitcher and have been there before but im not sold on them, Oakland well they are so so. I see the yankees only having to overtake 1 team, cleveland or Detroit not 5!


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> The rockies are turning there season around.  They are young and starting to figure out that they are good.  That said,  With our payroll we have to hit the ball.  Screw our bullpen get some runs.
> 
> If we loose a game when we score 7  then I will get after the pitching.



I agree 1 run a game is not acceptable.

But they've been so hot lately and the odds are the odds...they aren't going to have a team .350 average even if they're paid like they should.

So, when you only score a run a game you need a shut-out to win. Which I know is also unrealistic.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> and I just enjoy a little poking at yankee fans.  Why, just look at this thread,  They go on a short tear against the NL aka AAA and because they have won an ungodly amount of world series they
> 
> 1. are the be all and end all of baseball
> 2. are still the best team in all of baseball
> 3. will just turn it on on thier schedule and blow past not only the 5 teams ahead of them for the wildcard but the team with the best record in baseball for the division



You're forgetting something...when you're 10 games out you have nothing to lose and you have even less to root for.

I hope it crossed your mind that all we have left is poking some fun at Bosox fans who might actually take all that trash talk seriously.

Cause I don't think like what you wrote. Without the other teams to beat, the Yanks couldn't be the be all and end all of baseball.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

I got bored and thought this would be fun,, lets see where the redsox and yankees were in the standings for this date for the last 5yrs starting with 2002

2002
Boston 45 25 .616 - 17-15 28-10 376 264 Lost 1 5-5 
NY Yankees 45 28 .608 1.5 22-14 23-14 414 312 Lost 2 5-5 
2003
NY Yankees 43 29 .573 - 20-17 23-12 399 313 Won 4 8-2 
Toronto 42 32 .560 2 19-15 23-17 457 394 Lost 1 8-2 
Boston 41 31 .539 2 22-11 19-20 437 391 Lost 2 6-4 
2004
NY Yankees 43 24 .632 - 23-9 20-15 361 317 Lost 1 6-4 
Boston 39 29 .542 4.5 22-11 17-18 364 320 Lost 2 5-5 
2005
Baltimore 42 28 .600 - 22-15 20-13 367 314 Won 1 6-4 
Boston 40 30 .571 2 22-10 18-20 389 339 Won 3 8-2 
NY Yankees 37 33 .529 5 23-14 14-19 385 345 Won 1 8-2 
2006
Boston 42 28 .600 - 21-10 21-18 382 344 Won 6 6-4 
NY Yankees 40 30 .571 2 20-14 20-16 404 332 Won 2 5-5 
2007
Boston 46 25 .648 - 23-12 23-13 367 279 Won 2 6-4 
NY Yankees 35 34 .507 10 20-14 15-20 381 316 Lost 2 7-3


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 21, 2007)

Frito you must have more time on your hands then I do.  It's amazing the consitancy.  The only 2 blips is the O's in 05 and the Yanks this year


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

well im off this week, just hanging out at home, be in boston all weekend for a wedding.   Well im watching the Rocket warm up, its 94today in Denver , shall be interesting


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> well im off this week, just hanging out at home, be in boston all weekend for a wedding.   Well im watching the Rocket warm up, its 94today in Denver , shall be interesting



I hope he goes long enough to sweat off some of that fat.

Clemens will win some games.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I hope he goes long enough to sweat off some of that fat.
> 
> Clemens will win some games.



 LOL your funny jim, ya hes looking a little like phil mickelson.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

Hmmm Jeter just worked a real good walk, gets on first, tries stealing decides after 5 steps he wont make it, just got caught in a run down, that pretty much sums up the yankees road trip so far.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> LOL your funny jim, ya hes looking a little like phil mickelson.



Oh yeah, Phil looked like a blimp at the Open...played like one too with the inflated scores.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Oh yeah, Phil looked like a blimp at the Open...played like one too with the inflated scores.



 and he looks a little winded today, 91mph was the fastest for him, cant get above that, hes kinda bright red and looks a little out of it but made it thru the 1st.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

2-0 Yanks matsui with a that ball is high, it is far, it is gonnneeeeee to right


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

Clemens doesnt even go 5 innings, hes outta there after 4 1/3rd


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I don't miss him at all this season or last ..Now CoCo, I love watching him play CF.



 Yes i love watching him play center also, i dont like watching him bat however, no batting gloves on, twitching all over the place, not hitting for a good average, yuck


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> What he lacks in the batting right now he more than makes up for in his fielding. He is a better fielder than Damon ever thought about being...



THis is true, but for the last few yrs, him and Lugo i feel were a bit overrated, or should i say not living up to their standards.  They are kinda like Renteria, did good before they got here. NOt so good during, and Edgar is having a good year this year and they probably will too once they leave.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> For some reason it takes a season for players to settle in at Boston .. Look at Beckett last year compared to this year. Renteria never did fit in ...



 Lets hope so for Jd Drew's sake.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

Heres a good Clemens bit for ya

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...a_bases/2007/06/a_mustsee.html?p1=MEWell_Pos2


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

Houston we have a problem

Yanks 2002 scored 43 runs in Co in 3 days, this time how about 5


----------



## Mike P. (Jun 21, 2007)

Back to .500 ball & it's Igawa, Wong & Mussina over the weekend.  Friday Bonds may get to 756 if the new & improved Igawa can find the plate!

Meanwhile it's Dice K, Wake & Beckett for Boston!


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 21, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> Back to .500 ball & it's Igawa, Wong & Mussina over the weekend.  Friday Bonds may get to 756 if the new & improved Igawa can find the plate!
> 
> Meanwhile it's Dice K, Wake & Beckett for Boston!



 Unfortunately SD is alot better than SF, i cant see anyway the Yanks dont get 2/3 this weekend.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 22, 2007)

Clemens the doughboy, couldn't make it out of the 5th.

Weak.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 25, 2007)

Hmmm sox on the road go 4-2 versus pretty good competion, yanks go 1-5 versus well lesser competition.  Not good, not good.


----------



## Paul (Jun 25, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hmmm sox on the road go 4-2 versus pretty good competion, yanks go 1-5 versus well lesser competition.  *VERY* good,  *VERY* good.



FIFY


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 25, 2007)

Monday update - Yanks slip to third in east and sixth in wild card after losing 2 of 3 to giants

East W L PCT GB E# L10 STRK 
Boston 48 26 .649 - - 7-3 W1  
Toronto 37 37 .500 11.0 78 7-3 W3 
New York 36 37 .493 11.5 78 4-6 L2


Team W L PCT GB E# L10 STRK 
Cleveland 43 31 .581 - - 5-5 L1 
Seattle 39 33 .542 3.0 87 4-6 W2 
Oakland 39 35 .527 4.0 85 4-6 L3 
Minnesota 38 35 .521 4.5 85 6-4 W2 6
Toronto 37 37 .500 6.0 83 7-3 W3 
New York 36 37 .493 6.5 83 4-6 L2


----------



## Rushski (Jun 25, 2007)

RED SOX RULE!!!

Take that Yanks fans...


----------



## JimG. (Jun 25, 2007)

That was some poorly played baseball by the Yankees. They look old and finished.

Exactly what they didn't need; winning streak followed by bad road trip. They had better win every game in July. 

My prediction this week is that a high ranking Yankee employee gets the ax.


----------



## Paul (Jun 25, 2007)

You know the Yanks are in trouble when you don't hear a peep from this guy:


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh man.

I conceed to the sox.  I dont think we can catch them.  We better start winning series or I am going to have a heart attack. 

Same problem as may.  These highly comped players better start earning there keep.  I has nothing to do with our pitching.  You can blame April on pitching.  The rest of the year is on the 120million dollar batting order.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 25, 2007)

JimG. said:


> My prediction this week is that a high ranking Yankee employee gets the ax.



Which one?  my guess would be cashman as he is responsible for putting the team together.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 25, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Which one?  my guess would be cashman as he is responsible for putting the team together.




Cashman's only had complete control for a couple of seasons.  While he's made some mistakes, the current team isn't totally his fault.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 25, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Cashman's only had complete control for a couple of seasons.  While he's made some mistakes, the current team isn't totally his fault.



But I think he will get the blame...it won't be Torre because that will destroy any chance of the team going anywhere this season.

The media is already on Cashman's case, blaming him for the poor bench players and the demise of the farm system. And he fits the high profile bill too.


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 25, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Cashman's only had complete control for a couple of seasons.  While he's made some mistakes, the current team isn't totally his fault.




I dont think anyone is getting the boot, however  if anyone does it will be Giambi.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 25, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> I dont think anyone is getting the boot, however  if anyone does it will be Giambi.



Now that would be a logical move...actually fire players for the bad performance.

But that will never happen...MLBPA will fight it to the death.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 26, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Now that would be a logical move...actually fire players for the bad performance.
> 
> But that will never happen...MLBPA will fight it to the death.




I don't think it would ever get to the union.  It just can't and won't happen.  Baseball players have guaranteed contracts.  So, the Yanks could fire Giambi, but they'd still have to pay him.  There's no out based solely on poor performance.

I don't really have a problem with guaranteed contracts.  But, if you're going to have that kind of system and if I were an owner, I would strenuously object to opt-out clauses (e.g., JDL Drew and A-Rod), because owners are forced to carry the risk of a player getting injured or not performing during the life of a contract (Giambi), but, if the player still is performing at a great level (A-Rod) or if some club strangely thinks it should pay a player a lot more money (JDL Drew), the owner has no protection and does not get the benefit of the bargain.  

Maybe players bargain away a couple million bucks for the right to opt out, I don't know.  But, at these salary levels, it doesn't seem like players leave much on the table for such right.  I think it's more a question of owners throwing in a perk without really thinking about it (although, given the Dodgers' reaction to JDL, I bet this might be changing).

Aaaaaaah.  I feel better now.  Rant over.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 26, 2007)

JimG. said:


> But I think he will get the blame...it won't be Torre because that will destroy any chance of the team going anywhere this season.
> 
> The media is already on Cashman's case, blaming him for the poor bench players and the demise of the farm system. And he fits the high profile bill too.





Sorry, minor disagreement, JimG.  Under Cashman's watch the past couple of years (when he's had total say), the Yankee farm system has vaulted from the abyss to one of the top ten systems.  Granted, practically all of the bright spots are pitchers (not position players), but he has focused a lot on developing talent (instead of buying it at the major league level).  Also, the Yankees have (finally) started to use their financial advantage to draft "problem" picks (as in, those draftees who want more money than the slot in which they were chosen) and to push hard in the international market.  Sorry, I know that sounds kind of harsh, but, hey, the Red Sox paid a Japanese club $51 million for one guy, so I'm not too embarrassed.  I hope all this starts paying dividends in 3 to 5 years, when we'll look back at 2007 as a Yankee rebuilding year.

The bench player situation, though, is a complete joke and 100% Cashman's fault.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 26, 2007)

now if Giambi was smart since he admitted he did steroids, admit ya i did them, in 2000, 2001, 2002, make sure you say while you were playing for the A's, that way the yankees cannot get out of his contract and have to pay him the money he is owed and basically are stuck with him til whenever.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 26, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Sorry, minor disagreement, JimG.  Under Cashman's watch the past couple of years (when he's had total say), the Yankee farm system has vaulted from the abyss to one of the top ten systems.  Granted, practically all of the bright spots are pitchers (not position players), but he has focused a lot on developing talent (instead of buying it at the major league level).  Also, the Yankees have (finally) started to use their financial advantage to draft "problem" picks (as in, those draftees who want more money than the slot in which they were chosen) and to push hard in the international market.  Sorry, I know that sounds kind of harsh, but, hey, the Red Sox paid a Japanese club $51 million for one guy, so I'm not too embarrassed.  I hope all this starts paying dividends in 3 to 5 years, when we'll look back at 2007 as a Yankee rebuilding year.
> 
> The bench player situation, though, is a complete joke and 100% Cashman's fault.



Good info...I have no doubt the media who reported these tidbits have an agenda.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 26, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> now if Giambi was smart since he admitted he did steroids, admit ya i did them, in 2000, 2001, 2002, make sure you say while you were playing for the A's, that way the yankees cannot get out of his contract and have to pay him the money he is owed and basically are stuck with him til whenever.



My guess is that no matter what Giambi says he's going to get his money in this world of guaranteed contracts. The MLBPA would fight the Yanks to the death if they tried to not pay.

Does it matter? Will it stop the Yankees from spending money on other players?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 26, 2007)

JimG. said:


> My guess is that no matter what Giambi says he's going to get his money in this world of guaranteed contracts. The MLBPA would fight the Yanks to the death if they tried to not pay.
> 
> Does it matter? Will it stop the Yankees from spending money on other players?



 Hey i cant really count them out especially in the wild card but it seems everything they have done isnt working, Clemens the savior, well thats not going great, they get a few wins hit the road against mediocore talent and get beat, hey i just dont think its their year, even if they make the playoffs they cant win a world series this year, i think we are all in agreement of that.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> even if they make the playoffs they cant win a world series this year, i think we are all in agreement of that.



I for one am not in agreement...granted its a long shot and then some, but.....im not saying "uncle" until the fat lady sings or gets off me.. ;-)

M


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 26, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> I for one am not in agreement...granted its a long shot and then some, but.....im not saying "uncle" until the fat lady sings or gets off me.. ;-)
> 
> M



 Sorry Dog but lets face it even if they were good, the Angels just have their number and the Tigers would beat them as well and they would have to go thru one of them.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 26, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Sorry Dog but lets face it even if they were good, the Angels just have their number and the Tigers would beat them as well and they would have to go thru one of them.



They ARE good....just not producing....that lineup is BEHEMOTH....

The way I look at it IF they make it to the playoffs its like starting the season from day one....and they CAN win.....once you're in the playoffs you've got a shot...IMHO..

GO YANKS..



M


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 26, 2007)

SkiDog said:


> They ARE good....just not producing....that lineup is BEHEMOTH....
> 
> The way I look at it IF they make it to the playoffs its like starting the season from day one....and they CAN win.....once you're in the playoffs you've got a shot...IMHO..
> 
> ...



 I disagree, are you tellin me in the 90's when the rangers made the playoffs with Juan gone and Pudge behind the plate they had a chance to win the 1st round against the yankees, hell no they didnt, they didnt have a chance at all, and i dont think the yankees would this year either.


----------



## Zand (Jun 26, 2007)

Yanks just lost by walking in a batter with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th. Now they're just finding any possible way to lose.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 27, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I disagree, are you tellin me in the 90's when the rangers made the playoffs with Juan gone and Pudge behind the plate they had a chance to win the 1st round against the yankees, hell no they didnt, they didnt have a chance at all, and i dont think the yankees would this year either.




Did anyone watch last year's playoffs?

St. Louis, that absolute joke of a team, winning the World Series should prove to anyone that, in the playoffs, anything is possible.  

Did anyone think Detroit could beat the Yankees in the ALDS?  No.

Did anyone think the Yankees would lose to the Sox up 3-0 in 2004?  No.  (Sorry, couldn't resist.... )

A team with Mo, Jeter, Posada, A-Rod, Wang, Petitte, Clemens?  Pretty good core.  Plus a (hopefully) useful Matsui, Abreu, Cano?  Anything is possible.  Hell, I'd even say Damon could be useful.  I'd throw him up there to get a HBP in a key spot to walk in the winning run in Game 7.  Get "Mr. Never on the DL" to contribute!

IF they make it to the playoffs, that means they'll have gotten it going somewhat.  If so, the Yankees will be dangerous.  

This year there will be no cramming Sheffield and Matsui back into the roster after having been on the DL practically all season long, which, IMHO, threw off the team chemistry and balance last year.  The Yanks should have gone with what got 'em to the playoffs last year (and swept the Sox in 5 games in August), rather than bringing back Sheff and Matsui early.

You've gotta believe.  If you don't believe, why bother being a fan?  Only when the Yankees are thirty back with five left to play will I admit defeat.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 27, 2007)

Will Clemens get win #350 tonight for what could be the biggest milestone reached for the year if not the decade? or will he sputter like his last start?


----------



## tjf67 (Jun 27, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I disagree, are you tellin me in the 90's when the rangers made the playoffs with Juan gone and Pudge behind the plate they had a chance to win the 1st round against the yankees, hell no they didnt, they didnt have a chance at all, and i dont think the yankees would this year either.




You can not compare with Yankees to the Rangers.  If we get to the playoffs we can win.  There is no doubt in my mind that we could win.  There is a great deal of doubt that we can make it.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 27, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> You can not compare with Yankees to the Rangers.  If we get to the playoffs we can win.  There is no doubt in my mind that we could win.  There is a great deal of doubt that we can make it.



With the playoffs only needing to win 4 out of 7 anyone can win, even if you are down 3-0.  The big question isn't if they can win in the playoffs but if they can get to them which is a big if but not an imposible one at this point.


----------



## SkiDog (Jun 27, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Did anyone watch last year's playoffs?
> 
> St. Louis, that absolute joke of a team, winning the World Series should prove to anyone that, in the playoffs, anything is possible.
> 
> ...



Wooo HOOO...Amen brother...couldnt have said it better myself...

You have to believe...

If you make the playoffs you have a shot..

M


----------



## JimG. (Jun 27, 2007)

It looks pretty bad for the Yanks right now...this is a team playing very badly. 

Winning the division is just short of impossible and the wildcard is a stretch...but it's still June. 

It's nice to see that there aren't any Bosox fans in here bragging or claiming the division title just yet though...you guys know better than anyone what can happen when you start feeling comfy in June.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 27, 2007)

yes i still remember the collapse and bucky dent


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 27, 2007)

JimG. said:


> It looks pretty bad for the Yanks right now...this is a team playing very badly.
> 
> Winning the division is just short of impossible and the wildcard is a stretch...but it's still June.
> 
> It's nice to see that there aren't any Bosox fans in here bragging or claiming the division title just yet though...you guys know better than anyone what can happen when you start feeling comfy in June.



 Im not claiming the division but just incase you were wondering the magic number for yankee elimination is down to 74 for the division.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 27, 2007)

redsox get swept and yankees gain no ground, now thats toying with someone.


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 28, 2007)

Fortunately the power was out so I didn't see the 2-1 loss in 11.

Now for the big question?????? will Maddox get to 350 before clemens?  Maddox is at 340 after lasts nights W clemens still at 349


----------



## JimG. (Jun 28, 2007)

I read today that Fatboy didn't have any strikeouts last night because he was trying to conserve energy in the heat...so he got bombed in the 6th anyway.

$28 million for a fatso who can't go all out and loses because he pooped out? Lame purchase.

I'm telling you, Cashman is history very soon. The winning streak seems like it was an aberration.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I read today that Fatboy didn't have any strikeouts last night because he was trying to conserve energy in the heat...so he got bombed in the 6th anyway.
> 
> $28 million for a fatso who can't go all out and loses because he pooped out? Lame purchase.
> 
> I'm telling you, Cashman is history very soon. The winning streak seems like it was an aberration.




Ugggh.  Quite possibly the greatest pitcher ever is "Fatboy"?

What should the Yanks have done?  Give up on the season?  Pitch Chase Wright every 5th day?  What were the alternatives?

And who cares what he makes?  He didn't force the Yanks to pay him $17 million (NOT $28 million).  I don't begrudge athletes what they make.  If someone wants to pay (and drive up ticket prices), they should get it, even if they don't deserve it.  Until fans stop going to the ballpark, owners won't stop paying ludicrous sums.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 28, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Ugggh.  Quite possibly the greatest pitcher ever is "Fatboy"?
> 
> What should the Yanks have done?  Give up on the season?  Pitch Chase Wright every 5th day?  What were the alternatives?
> 
> And who cares what he makes?  He didn't force the Yanks to pay him $17 million (NOT $28 million).  I don't begrudge athletes what they make.  If someone wants to pay (and drive up ticket prices), they should get it, even if they don't deserve it.  Until fans stop going to the ballpark, owners won't stop paying ludicrous sums.



Yes, FAT. Nor is he my greatest of all time either. No way. Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford all go before Clemens in my book. Clemens is a compiler of wins and he keeps pitching to feed his self image. 

1-3 in his starts so far. Is that the record of a "saviour"?

My prediction: The White Sox are looking to trade Buerle and the Bosox have an inside track. If they seal that deal, Cashman is history the next day.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yes, FAT. Nor is he my greatest of all time either. No way. Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford all go before Clemens in my book. Clemens is a compiler of wins and he keeps pitching to feed his self image.
> 
> 1-3 in his starts so far. Is that the record of a "saviour"?
> 
> My prediction: The White Sox are looking to trade Buerle and the Bosox have an inside track. If they seal that deal, Cashman is history the next day.




Fat?  No.  Phat?  Yes!

Cy Young?  OK.  You can make an argument.  Even though he pitched during what, the last Ice Age?  Different time.  Different game.  Walter Johnson?  OK.  Fine.  Another argument.  I don't think a few years of Koufax can match up against DECADES of Clemens.  No way.  And Whitey Ford?  A great pitcher, but not in the same league as Cy Young, Johnson, Clemens or even Koufax.

I will not address your absurd (said which righteous indignation ) characterization of Clemens.  You clearly have something personal against him.  

Regarding Buehrle, you're about two days behind the times.  Word is the Other Sox are going to sign him to a four-year extension for $50 million or so.


----------



## Paul (Jun 28, 2007)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


----------



## JimG. (Jun 28, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Fat?  No.  Phat?  Yes!
> 
> Cy Young?  OK.  You can make an argument.  Even though he pitched during what, the last Ice Age?  Different time.  Different game.  Walter Johnson?  OK.  Fine.  Another argument.  I don't think a few years of Koufax can match up against DECADES of Clemens.  No way.  And Whitey Ford?  A great pitcher, but not in the same league as Cy Young, Johnson, Clemens or even Koufax.
> 
> ...



I won't say anything about Koufax..ask any well informed baseball fan who watched him pitch and I think you would change your mind. The guy dominated the game during his career. DOMINATED.

As for Whitey, he still holds the record for consecutive scoreless innings pitched in World Series play, over 50 innings. That's 5 straight shutouts in the World Series. That's a hell of alot more impressive than anything Roger the compiler has ever done.

And as for me having something personal against Clemens, you bet I do...he's a Boston Red Sox retread! How dare you put a mercenary, self-glorifying, non-team player like Clemens ahead of a tried and true Yankee (who retired a Yankee and stayed retired) like Whitey Ford? Are you a Boston fan?

This is fun, isn't it.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I won't say anything about Koufax..ask any well informed baseball fan who watched him pitch and I think you would change your mind. The guy dominated the game during his career. DOMINATED.
> 
> As for Whitey, he still holds the record for consecutive scoreless innings pitched in World Series play, over 50 innings. That's 5 straight shutouts in the World Series. That's a hell of alot more impressive than anything Roger the compiler has ever done.
> 
> ...





All this subjective stuff is getting us nowhere, since you continue to refuse to concede that I am right and you are wrong.

So, let's engage in objective analysis.

What is the measure by which the best pitchers are judged?  Why, Cy Young Awards, of course!  How many Cy Youngs have Clemens won?  Seven.  SEVEN!!!  At least one in both leagues, with six of them coming in the tougher league, the AL.  

Seven.  Wow.  Yeah, he's a compiler alright.

How many did Cy Young win?  Well, if he's so great, how many did he win?  10?  15?  Try zero.  ZERO!  Zippo.  Nadda.  Same with Walter Johnson.  Whitey Ford did manage to eke out one Cy Young.  Koufax?  ZERO!!!  

And don't tell me how Cy Young couldn't have won one since the award didn't exist when he played.  Whatever.  If he were so great, he would have won one.  

And Koufax, btw, actually did pitch in the Cy Young Award era....

Seven vs. one vs. zero vs. zero.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 28, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> All this subjective stuff is getting us nowhere, since you continue to refuse to concede that I am right and you are wrong.
> 
> So, let's engage in objective analysis.
> 
> ...



You are consistent...you used the same logic in the A-rod versus Jeter discussion we had.

You're a numbers guy, I'm not. You're an awards guy, I'm not.

You think A-rod is better than Jeter, and you use batting or home run titles and MVP awards to justify it. Using that reasoning, Barry Bonds is better than Jeter too because he has what, 5 MVP awards? That's fair. 

But I don't look at it that way.

I look at championships. Jeter has 4; A-rod + Bonds = 0. Jeter wins.

Same with Clemens who has 2 rings because he weaseled his way onto the Yankees and rode their coattails to them; they didn't need him to win. Ford has how many World Series titles? 8? And he was the anchor of the staff. I'm not a numbers guy and I don't know how many if any Cy Young or Walter Johnson won, but I also know Koufax dominated at least 2 World Series.

Roger Clemens has never lead a team to a championship, never put a team on his back and drove it to a championship by example. He pitches and compiles wins and awards and if he's on a great team, he won 2 rings. The one chance he had in Houston to show he could lead they were SWEPT.

So don't tell me he's better than Whitey Ford...I'll never agree with you on that.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> You are consistent...you used the same logic in the A-rod versus Jeter discussion we had.
> 
> You're a numbers guy, I'm not. You're an awards guy, I'm not.
> 
> ...



Koufax from people that have see him was in a league of his own, he gets the ball if i had 1 game to win regardless of who it was against.


----------



## Paul (Jun 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Roger Clemens has never lead a team to a championship, never put a team on his back and drove it to a championship by example. He pitches and compiles wins and awards and if he's on a great team, he won 2 rings. The one chance he had in Houston to show he could lead they were SWEPT.



So what you're saying is that Clemens can't even wear Schilling's sock?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 28, 2007)

Paul said:


> So what you're saying is that Clemens can't even wear Schilling's sock?



 I will answer for him, NO .


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 29, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I will answer for him, NO .




You're right.  Down in Texas a man would get the s**t kicked out of him for wearing a sock covered in lipstick, marker or whatever Schilling used to color his stupid sock.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> You are consistent...you used the same logic in the A-rod versus Jeter discussion we had.
> 
> You're a numbers guy, I'm not. You're an awards guy, I'm not.
> 
> ...




Scott Brosius has more WS rings than Barry Bonds.  So, Brosius is better?

Clemens: 2 WS wins (and, despite what you say, he was a very important part of the rotation and won a Cy Young while a Yankee!) + taking his hometown Astros to their 1st World Series?  Pretty good, pretty good.  He is a w-i-n-n-e-r.  And a warrior (sorry, Steinbrenner just stole my keyboard for a second there).

As a Yankee fan (well, I think you are one), you should be psyched that Clemens pitches for the Yanks.  Just think.  Clemens should be the number one folk hero of the Red Sox Nation.  He's in a league of his own (OK, all kidding aside, he's without question a top 10 pitcher of all time).  By far the best Red Sox pitcher ever (Pedro was great in his prime of, what, 4 years?).  But, instead, Clemens pitches for, and wins with, the Yankees, and RSN can't love him as its own.  It's tragic, really.  Same thing with Manny.  He's an absolute machine (offensively).  But, he's wanted out of Boston (and away from Boston fans) for YEARS, so RSN can't really embrace him, either.  Big Papi, "Mr. Clutch (TM)", is a great DH, don't get me wrong, but he's nothing compared to Clemens or Manny.  And Damon?  WWJDD?  Poor RSN.  Granted, I'd rather he played on the Sox now, but 2006 was priceless from my perspective.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 29, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Scott Brosius has more WS rings than Barry Bonds.  So, Brosius is better?
> 
> Clemens: 2 WS wins (and, despite what you say, he was a very important part of the rotation and won a Cy Young while a Yankee!) + taking his hometown Astros to their 1st World Series?  Pretty good, pretty good.  He is a w-i-n-n-e-r.  And a warrior (sorry, Steinbrenner just stole my keyboard for a second there).
> 
> As a Yankee fan (well, I think you are one), you should be psyched that Clemens pitches for the Yanks.  Just think.  Clemens should be the number one folk hero of the Red Sox Nation.  He's in a league of his own (OK, all kidding aside, he's without question a top 10 pitcher of all time).  By far the best Red Sox pitcher ever (Pedro was great in his prime of, what, 4 years?).  But, instead, Clemens pitches for, and wins with, the Yankees, and RSN can't love him as its own.  It's tragic, really.  Same thing with Manny.  He's an absolute machine (offensively).  But, he's wanted out of Boston (and away from Boston fans) for YEARS, so RSN can't really embrace him, either.  Big Papi, "Mr. Clutch (TM)", is a great DH, don't get me wrong, but he's nothing compared to Clemens or Manny.  And Damon?  WWJDD?  Poor RSN.  Granted, I'd rather he played on the Sox now, but 2006 was priceless from my perspective.



Brosius hit so many clutch late season/playoff homers I can't remember them all. He was such a great fit at third for those teams. I would not have traded him for Bonds, wouldn't even have considered it. I don't know if that answers your question, I don't know if I can. Bonds may equal 756 lifetime homers, but to me Brosius is priceless.

I get the Clemens/Red Sox rooting thing, but don't you think Red Sox fans are snickering and thinking they're getting even considering Roger's anemic stats this season? I'm not bragging about Clemens to anyone from Boston. Plus I just don't like his personality which I'm sure is obvious.

To end in agreement, I feel exactly as you do about Manny...the guy is one of the premier offensive players of his generation. I know he's a flake and can be a pain, but his numbers and clutch hitting more than make up for it. I'll take him on my team anyday. He KILLS the Yankees. Boston is smart...Manny is still on the team despite the yearly "trade him/I want off the team" stuff. That love/hate stuff can be a powerful motivator.


----------



## JimG. (Jun 29, 2007)

Paul said:


> So what you're saying is that Clemens can't even wear Schilling's sock?



Schilling and Clemens are 2 peas from the same pod. Not a Schilling fan either.

I guess in baseball today one has to get used to having players you don't necessarily like on your team. Would I like to see Schilling win 20 games for the Yanks? Sure. Clemens too if I'm totally honest. But I still won't like them. 

Look, alot of people say Ty Cobb was the best baseball player ever. They will also admit he was a totally unlikeable son of a bitch. So, despite his greatness, I would probably not be a fan of his.


----------



## Paul (Jun 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Schilling and Clemens are 2 peas from the same pod. Not a Schilling fan either.
> 
> I guess in baseball today one has to get used to having players you don't necessarily like on your team. Would I like to see Schilling win 20 games for the Yanks? Sure. Clemens too if I'm totally honest. Be I still won't like them.
> 
> Look, alot of people say Ty Cobb was the best baseball player ever. They will also admit he was a totally unlikeable son of a bitch. So, despite his greatness, I would probably not be a fan of his.



For the record, Jim, I was against the Schilling trade. Never cared for him either, and when Rawjah was in Boston, he wasn't well liked (by me anyway) but like you said, I took what he gave us, and appreciated it. I'm on the fence with Schill, personally, he may be a curmudgeon, and a bit of a pompous ass, but what he did in the WS gives him a pass from us Sox fans. I started questioning the Rocking-chair when he made that somewhat mysterious exit from game 6 of the WS. Why leave in the 6th? The bullpen was wiped-out, he wasn't pitching bad, and McNamara certainly didn't have the stones to tell him what to do. Its been speculated that Roger took himself out so that he would have time to get himself cleaned-up (and shaved!! remember, he wouldn't shave on gamedays superstitous crap) for the celebration that was *kaff*certain *kaff* to happen. Winner my ass, amazing talent, lousy teammate.

Oh, and CBMP...


> You're right. Down in Texas a man would get the s**t kicked out of him for wearing a sock covered in lipstick, marker or whatever Schilling used to color his stupid sock.



Congratulations on losing any credibility you were starting to gain.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 29, 2007)

Paul said:


> Oh, and CBMP...Congratulations on losing any credibility you were starting to gain.




Thanks!

I was starting to wonder if I was going to get away with my insightful observation.  Anyway, sorry to suggest Schill used lipstick.  Didn't mean to say he was a girl or anything like that.  I have too much respect for women to do that....

Zing!  Oh boy.  Curt just cracks me up!  No offense meant.  

Please just let me be bitter about 2004 and ignore me.  As a Yankee fan, I have so little to be bitter about.  Let me enjoy this.  Better yet, someone from RSN please give me some tips on how to be a bitter fan.  I have lots to learn from you.



I kid.  I kid.


----------



## Paul (Jun 29, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I was starting to wonder if I was going to get away with my insightful observation.  Anyway, sorry to suggest Schill used lipstick.  Didn't mean to say he was a girl or anything like that.  I have too much respect for women to do that....
> 
> ...



At least we know it wasn't A-Rod's lipstick, the blot would've been purple.:dunce:

Yeah...lame...low-hanging fruit...I keed, I keed......


----------



## tree_skier (Jun 29, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> As a Yankee fan, I have so little to be bitter about.  Let me enjoy this.  .



Please, I can see lots to be bitter about.

28 million for the fat man (keep telling youself that its prorated, you might believe it)

Steriod boy out for the season

A-rod still can't field and it's not september so he is still hitting

Mike Myers, another sox washout, brought in for one reason, get Ortiz out, failed

Johnny Damon, another sox washout, batting 250 on season .226 last 10 games and still throws like mary.  playing DH????????

Doug Mientkiewicz, another sox washout, batting .226 on season and on DL (must have pulled the whinning muscle

should I go on


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jun 29, 2007)

Paul said:


> At least we know it wasn't A-Rod's lipstick, the blot would've been purple.:dunce:
> 
> Yeah...lame...low-hanging fruit...I keed, I keed......




Touché!



There was this great photoshop image of A-Rod with a purse dangling from his arm while gently swiping at Bronson.  Hilarious stuff.

I was at that game, by the way.  Quite a rollercoaster of emotions during that inning....And seeing the riot police storm the field at the end of the game was kind of a low point.

I bought a Yankee cap before Game 6 that I wear now to help remind myself that I'm not simply entitled to things (be it Yankee World Series wins or otherwise).


----------



## JimG. (Jun 29, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> I bought a Yankee cap before Game 6 that I wear now to help remind myself that I'm not simply entitled to things (be it Yankee World Series wins or otherwise).



It's good to be humble.

Easier to do when you have 26 world championships to fall back on.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 29, 2007)

IM curious, all you yankee fans only, yes or no right now whats your mindset on the season so far, please pick one of the 3 choices below.

The yankees will win the AL east?
The yankees will not win the AL east but win the wildcard?
The yankees will not make the playoffs?


----------



## JimG. (Jun 29, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> IM curious, all you yankee fans only, yes or no right now whats your mindset on the season so far, please pick one of the 3 choices below.
> 
> The yankees will win the AL east?
> The yankees will not win the AL east but win the wildcard?
> The yankees will not make the playoffs?



Sorry, my guess isn't listed:

The Yankees win the World Series.

Ha, so much for being humble. And BTW, how can you Yes or No a question with 3 choices as answers?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jun 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Sorry, my guess isn't listed:
> 
> The Yankees win the World Series.
> 
> Ha, so much for being humble. And BTW, how can you Yes or No a question with 3 choices as answers?



 Ya i guess i worded that wrong, sorry at work, well Jimbo to win the series they have to make the playoffs, so how are they getting in?  Leading back to my questions


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 1, 2007)

Well i could sit here and say what the hell happened to Petitte, wow, but instead i will sit here and say the only good thing thats happening from a redsox perspective is they win when the yanks win and lose when they lose, they could easily be 15games up by now and the yankees could easily have it down to 7games, they both suck lol


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 1, 2007)

Here is a interesting stat i came across tonite,  this is the latest New York has been under .500 in a season since Sept. 5, 1995, when they were  60-61., its been a real long time


----------



## JimG. (Jul 2, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> they could easily be 15games up by now and the yankees could easily have it down to 7games, they both suck lol



Yup. Pettite was horrible yesterday.

But the Sox are letting the Yanks live. They should be long dead.


----------



## tjf67 (Jul 2, 2007)

The Yanks are getting under my skin.  Steinbrenner needs to step up and start running his mouth.  Kick some arse!!!


----------



## tree_skier (Jul 2, 2007)

I keep waiting for some fireworks.  George sure has mellowed in his old age.


----------



## JimG. (Jul 2, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> I keep waiting for some fireworks.  George sure has mellowed in his old age.



The fact he hasn't yet makes me wonder about his health.

Is he sitting and thinking or is he sitting there drooling?


----------



## tjf67 (Jul 2, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The fact he hasn't yet makes me wonder about his health.
> 
> Is he sitting and thinking or is he sitting there drooling?



I am not sure he remembers he owns the Yankees.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jul 2, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The fact he hasn't yet makes me wonder about his health.
> 
> Is he sitting and thinking or is he sitting there drooling?




Careful what you wish for!

IMHO, the late 90s dynasty was directly attributable to Steinbrenner not being able to meddle in the early 90s.  So, if he really is "out to lunch," I predict great things in the near-future.  Patience is needed.

It's funny.  So many people bemoan Steinbrenner.  They say he ruins baseball.  But, as soon as he seems to be taking a step back, an equally vocal crowd jumps in to say Steinbrenner should be raising hell.  We can't have it both ways.

For me, as long as I think ownership is willing to (smartly) write checks, I'm happy.  I'd prefer all the "action" to be only on the field.  That being said, a well placed zinger (like Steinbrenner's after the trade for A-Rod) never hurts!


----------



## JimG. (Jul 2, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Careful what you wish for!
> 
> IMHO, the late 90s dynasty was directly attributable to Steinbrenner not being able to meddle in the early 90s.  So, if he really is "out to lunch," I predict great things in the near-future.  Patience is needed.
> 
> ...



I like George...one of the last tyrants.

I never said he ruins baseball...his hell raising is great theater. George speaks and others cower. Seriously, for all his antics, it's clear he loves the Yankees and he loves owning them.

He can yell and scream all he wants as long as he keeps paying the bills.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 2, 2007)

Or maybe George just realized yelling and screming doenst work, it sure hasnt worked for Pinella lately, Joe Torre has never been that kinda guy, and billy martin was so i dunno.  I honestly think Joe and the Yanks have earned the right to get thru this without drastic changes and if they fail then you will see big changes in the offseason but even the yankees after all the playoff success can have 1 bad year, lets face it , its impossible for them to rebuild so more money shall be spent but probably in the off-season their hands are kinda tied to find any good players out there .


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 4, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Another Red Sox Fan here but if the Yankees are under .500 come the time of the all star break I believe Torre will be gone ..



 I guess you were wrong on that one.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 4, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> Let me check the calendar .. nope it's not all star break time yet. I will make the call to George. Get back to me at the end of next week. ;-)



 Well they are not winning 4 in a row so its safe to say they will be under 500 come all star break


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 19, 2007)

Well in 49days the redsox lead has shrunk from 14.5 to now 7 games.  The yankees are doing what they always do, strong after the break and the sox well they are doing what they always do, crappy after the break.  I still dont know if the Yankees will catch them, they do have 6 games left with eachother but i for one never said they were out of it, ive seen this play out this way too  many times.  I give the Yankees some credit for turning it around, it did look bad for awhile


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jul 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well in 49days the redsox lead has shrunk from 14.5 to now 7 games.  The yankees are doing what they always do, strong after the break and the sox well they are doing what they always do, crappy after the break.  I still dont know if the Yankees will catch them, they do have 6 games left with eachother but i for one never said they were out of it, ive seen this play out this way too  many times.  I give the Yankees some credit for turning it around, it did look bad for awhile




Agreed!

But, lest we forget, July is a VERY soft spot in the schedule for the Yankees.  For me, it's not so much that they're winning these games, which they "should" be winning, but how they're winning them.  The team is winning the close games, winning the come-from-behind games, playing with a little bit of guts (finally).  Not much to complain about.

If it's too late, though, I'll look back on that Rockies/Giants trip in June and wonder what could have been if they'd gone .500 or better, instead of getting practically swept.


----------



## JimG. (Jul 19, 2007)

Figured there would be some activity today...down to 6 in the loss column too.

The key stretch for the Yanks is in August when they have to play alot of games with Detroit, the Angels, and Cleveland. If they make it through that stretch with a .650 winning percentage they could make some noise about getting into the playoffs.

And out of respect for MudPuddles I have to admit that A-rod (see, not hole) is the reason they even have a shot. It just pains me the guy is going to hold them up for $30 million at the end of this season.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jul 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> And out of respect for MudPuddles I have to admit that A-rod (see, not hole) is the reason they even have a shot. It just pains me the guy is going to hold them up for $30 million at the end of this season.




Thanks, but, as you might have guessed, I have an issue with your last sentence....

I don't see why A-Rod would be the "bad guy" for negotiating for extra money.  He has a right in his contract to opt out and become a free agent, which he earned and he'd be pretty crazy not to exercise.  The Yanks could (and should) decide to extend him to prevent the opt out (thereby saving the $24-30 million (I can't remember how much) the Rangers are paying the Yankees the next 3 years for A-Rod to play in the Bronx).  

Maybe we should blame the Cubs and Astros for giving hundreds of millions to Soriano and Carlos Lee, who are obviously not the caliber of player as A-Rod.  They set the market, and I'm sure another club would gladly pay A-Rod what he's "worth".

It's not A-Rod's fault he's so good, and that teams are willing to pay him.  You can't blame A-Rod for that.  The market is what the market is.  Why should A-Rod take less money just so that the team's owner can make some EXTRA profits?

(You'll remember, though, from a previous rant, that I'm not a fan of opt out clauses....)


----------



## JimG. (Jul 19, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Thanks, but, as you might have guessed, I have an issue with your last sentence....
> 
> I don't see why A-Rod would be the "bad guy" for negotiating for extra money.  He has a right in his contract to opt out and become a free agent, which he earned and he'd be pretty crazy not to exercise.  The Yanks could (and should) decide to extend him to prevent the opt out (thereby saving the $24-30 million (I can't remember how much) the Rangers are paying the Yankees the next 3 years for A-Rod to play in the Bronx).
> 
> ...



My use of the term "hold up" created a negative that I should have gathered you might object to. That was not my point. He's going to opt out at the end of the season, the same time they have to think about re-signing Rivera and Posada; plus they'll have to consider Jeter too. I know you'll disagree to a point, but Jeter is the team captain and Mr Yankee and has 4 championships to his name. He will command the same pay A-rod gets. 

I'm not so sure there are alot of teams out there "gladly" able to pay him what he thinks he is worth. I can only think of a few. But I've said before that the A-rod type player will eventually price himself out of a competitive market only to see owners tripping over themselves to throw money at them. Owners are idiots when it comes to their sports team toys.

So he probably will get $30 mil a year from the Yanks. And so will Jeter, and Posada and Rivera will clean up too.

And then you and I will have to hear about how unfair the Yankee's $300 million payroll is.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> My use of the term "hold up" created a negative that I should have gathered you might object to. That was not my point. He's going to opt out at the end of the season, the same time they have to think about re-signing Rivera and Posada; plus they'll have to consider Jeter too. I know you'll disagree to a point, but Jeter is the team captain and Mr Yankee and has 4 championships to his name. He will command the same pay A-rod gets.
> 
> I'm not so sure there are alot of teams out there "gladly" able to pay him what he thinks he is worth. I can only think of a few. But I've said before that the A-rod type player will eventually price himself out of a competitive market only to see owners tripping over themselves to throw money at them. Owners are idiots when it comes to their sports team toys.
> 
> ...




 I wont give u shit about the payroll anymore Jim, id be willing to bed the redsox will hit 200 Mil before the yankees hit 300 Mil..  I heard some crazy rumor about the phillies giving arod all that money, he would hit a ton and i mean a ton of homers in that park.. So besides them, the yankees , i guess redsox and angels are the only other teams that could afford arod.  If i were the yankees id have no problem letting him go and putting that money towards Santana next year.  Granted if he stayed in a Yankee uniform, we might be talking about him in 5yrs breaking bonds all time home run record.. That means $$$


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jul 20, 2007)

JimG. said:


> My use of the term "hold up" created a negative that I should have gathered you might object to. That was not my point. He's going to opt out at the end of the season, the same time they have to think about re-signing Rivera and Posada; plus they'll have to consider Jeter too. I know you'll disagree to a point, but Jeter is the team captain and Mr Yankee and has 4 championships to his name. He will command the same pay A-rod gets.
> 
> I'm not so sure there are alot of teams out there "gladly" able to pay him what he thinks he is worth. I can only think of a few. But I've said before that the A-rod type player will eventually price himself out of a competitive market only to see owners tripping over themselves to throw money at them. Owners are idiots when it comes to their sports team toys.
> 
> ...




Well, I think every team every year has to make tough choices as to who to keep and who to let walk.  Cashman did OK by only having Mo and Posada becoming significant free agents this year, with A-Rod's opt out being something he had no control over.  I like that the team won't extend mid-season, because an agreement is an agreement and players should earn their next contract by fulfilling their prior contract.  Of course, such policy might cost the Yankees more if players would have otherwise given a "discount" to extend mid-season, but the associated risk and natural loss of a little bit of motivation probably outweighs that cost.

Since you know I like talking about A-Rod and the Yanks, here a couple of additional thoughts.

One, Jeter's deal expires after the 2010 season, and he has no opt out.  There's no reason for the Yankees to give him more money, and I can't see Jeter arguing for a raise just because A-Rod got one.  Jeter already makes less money, and, anyway,  he's making $20 million.  In fact, the Yanks pay Jeter $4 million more this year than A-Rod ($20 million vs. $16 million).

Two, there's no way the Yankees will let A-Rod opt out and THEN re-sign him.  Doing so would probably cause them to lose the $21 million the Rangers owe them (see below for the structure of A-Rod's current deal).  So, in this one special case, extending him before he becomes a free agent makes extreme fiscal sense (assuming the team wants to keep him).

Note that the Yankees pay him "only" $16 million for 2007 (the Rangers are chipping in $7 million).  A bargain for the Yanks, when you look at the market.  So, if the Yankees do extend him, you could consider it as the Yankees paying him more at the tail end of the deal for the Rangers-funded "bargain" they're getting through 2010.

What's brutal is if you're a Texas fan, 'cause they effectively paid $147 million for 3 years of the game's best player....Ouch.



"_Under the deal, the Yankees pay Rodriguez $15 million in each of the next three seasons [2003-2006], $16 million each in 2007 and 2008, $17 million in 2009 and $18 million in 2010, according to contract information obtained by the AP from player and management sources.

In each of the first four years, $1 million will be deferred without interest, to be paid in 2011.

The trade calls for Texas to pay $43 million of Rodriguez's salary over the remaining seven years: $3 million in 2004, $6 million each in 2005, 2006 and 2010, $7 million apiece in 2007 and 2009 and $8 million in 2008. In addition, the Rangers will pay the $24 million remaining in deferred money from the original contract, with the interest rate lowered from 3 percent to 1.75 percent._"

- ESPN article from 02/17/04


----------



## JimG. (Jul 20, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Granted if he stayed in a Yankee uniform, we might be talking about him in 5yrs breaking bonds all time home run record.. That means $$$



In a sports world where the games are just a sideshow and the personalities dominate the news, both negative and positive, this statment is very true.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 21, 2007)

Ya know if griffey Jr never got hurt and stayed in the AL as a DH he would have hit 800 homers no problem i believe.  If Barry wants any respect he should retire after hitting 754, that would go a long way with everyone, but that will cost him money and everything else so we wont be seeing that happen.


----------



## JimG. (Jul 23, 2007)

Yanks were pretty scary this weekend pummeling Tampa Bay...worst thing the Devil Rays did was winning the first game (which Wang blew) and pissing the Yanks off.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 24, 2007)

Well the offense is carrying them for sure, but how long can the 10+ hits a game last?


----------



## JimG. (Jul 24, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well the offense is carrying them for sure, but how long can the 10+ hits a game last?



10+? Try 20+ the last 2 Tampa games. It won't last.

They won only 9-2 last night, but the Royals were in it at 4-2 in the 7th.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 24, 2007)

Hey the sox had their hot streak and this is the yankees hot streak, we all know teams dont play 700 ball year round, it will be interesting to see where they are when they meet at the end of august, if its within 5games those will be some fun games to watch


----------



## JimG. (Jul 25, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hey the sox had their hot streak and this is the yankees hot streak, we all know teams dont play 700 ball year round, it will be interesting to see where they are when they meet at the end of august, if its within 5games those will be some fun games to watch



Another 9 runs scored and a win.

Sox beat Indians 1-0...thank you again, keep up the good work.

This is simply excellent and the Sox are hot at the exact right time. Give it another 2 games and the wild card will be within easy reach.

The key stretch of the season is in 3 weeks. The season will be determined then.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 25, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Another 9 runs scored and a win.
> 
> Sox beat Indians 1-0...thank you again, keep up the good work.
> 
> ...



  WEll the sox have alot harder schedule than the yankees in my opinon, 6 games left with the Angels and their last 2 series against Oakland and Minn.  The yanks dont really play anyone except Detroit at home for 3..


----------



## JimG. (Jul 25, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> WEll the sox have alot harder schedule than the yankees in my opinon, 6 games left with the Angels and their last 2 series against Oakland and Minn.  The yanks dont really play anyone except Detroit at home for 3..



Huh? Are you saying the Sox have a tougher overall sched than the Yanks? I don't think so. In fact, don't they play the same teams the same number of games each?

Maybe the Sox have a tougher REMAINING sched, but what's your point? Now the Yanks get to make hay with the lesser lights the Sox have been beating up on all season and now it's not fair?

And what scedule are you looking at? Between August 10 and August 30 the Yanks play Cleveland 3 times, Detroit 8 times, the Angels 3 times and Boston 3 times. Those are the 4 teams ahead of the Yankees. That's easy?

Time to start sweating for Sox fans I guess...the crazy talk is beginning.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 25, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Huh? Are you saying the Sox have a tougher overall sched than the Yanks? I don't think so. In fact, don't they play the same teams the same number of games each?
> 
> Maybe the Sox have a tougher REMAINING sched, but what's your point? Now the Yanks get to make hay with the lesser lights the Sox have been beating up on all season and now it's not fair?
> 
> ...



 Im not sweating Jim, im not quite sure what i was looking at i guess it wasnt the yankees schedule lol.  Well i dont know whos schedule overall is tougher, they do play the same teams  for the most part and its not like college football with a schedule rating, although that would be cool to see.  However the yanks have an easier Sept than the sox but its the reverse for August , the yankees have a hell of a stretch from AUg 17-30th, Detroit for 4, then the Angels for 3, then Detroit for 4 more then 3 with Boston, if its not obvious  already that stretch will decide the division and wild card for them..


----------



## JimG. (Jul 25, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Im not sweating Jim, im not quite sure what i was looking at i guess it wasnt the yankees schedule lol.  Well i dont know whos schedule overall is tougher, they do play the same teams  for the most part and its not like college football with a schedule rating, although that would be cool to see.  However the yanks have an easier Sept than the sox but its the reverse for August , the yankees have a hell of a stretch from AUg 17-30th, Detroit for 4, then the Angels for 3, then Detroit for 4 more then 3 with Boston, if its not obvious  already that stretch will decide the division and wild card for them..



Heh...just stirring up trouble as usual. I agree that stretch in August will determine if the Yanks make noise later in the season or not.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 25, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Heh...just stirring up trouble as usual. I agree that stretch in August will determine if the Yanks make noise later in the season or not.



 Hmmm down to 6.5, maybe the only thing that stretch will provide us at this rate is whether  the yankees will win the division or wild-card.. Im not ashamed to say it, im a tad more concerned than say last week..  I was ok until that got under 8 games, 6.5 with 61 to go makes me well uneasy as a redsox fan.  I feel a sense of Deja-vu


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 2, 2007)

It's August 2 and A-rod is reverting to form.  0-9 in last 2 games.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 2, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> It's August 2 and A-rod is reverting to form.  0-9 in last 2 games.



0-21 since his last hit which was HR #499.

They didn't need him until today...Fat boy couldn't get out of the 2nd inning; gave up 8 runs, 3 earned so there were some defensive lapses too.

I figure by the 8th when it's 11-2 or so he'll hit number 500, a solo shot.


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 2, 2007)

I have to admit that I wanted Fat Boy to come back to the sox but I am so glad he is yours.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 2, 2007)

Ok the yanks finally lost a high scoring game.  8 game lead for the sox , 54 games to go.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 3, 2007)

I will Keep fat boy and Arod. 

We will se later in the year if we can even get to the playoffs.  

Clemens up until this game has had aweful run support.  He has never been good in the heat( weather I mean).

Arod.  If we get to october I have a feeling he will put up a MVP performance.  I hope we keep him

Yes network for sale.  What does than mean?


----------



## MarkC (Aug 3, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Yes network for sale.  What does than mean?



It means that it will be a bit less painful for George to pay for A-Rod, Posada, and Mo next year.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 7, 2007)

Time to have some fun.

Footsteps...first walking, now jogging. Hear them?

There's no doubt the Yanks are back in the playoff race. The wildcard is right there.

And lately I've heard alot of Bosox and other anti-Yanks fans babbling about how the division is out of reach. Really?

6 games out of first.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 7, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I never would have been so foolish to make a statement like that ... just to much history. I have been nervous the whole second half .. I am sure the sox are looking over their shoulders now. If the yanks had been playing like this during the first half of the season .. the sox would be 15 back by now. The September series always seem to determine the division champs.



I sometimes listen to WFAN...yesterday the Mad Dog was on a total rant about how the Yanks would never catch the Sox. I listened a bit at lunch and he was still ranting on the way home from work 4 hours later. I'll bet there was heavy traffic on 90 and 84 west yesterday as Bosox fans hit the road to shut him up with gags and chloroform.

I'll admit it...when the Yanks are in first I'm worried about the Sox; even if they're out of it they can wreck the Yanks with losses and tough games. 

These 2 clubs make each other play better no matter what the standings. Hands down the best rivalry in sports.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 7, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I sometimes listen to WFAN...yesterday the Mad Dog was on a total rant about how the Yanks would never catch the Sox. I listened a bit at lunch and he was still ranting on the way home from work 4 hours later. I'll bet there was heavy traffic on 90 and 84 west yesterday as Bosox fans hit the road to shut him up with gags and chloroform.
> 
> I'll admit it...when the Yanks are in first I'm worried about the Sox; even if they're out of it they can wreck the Yanks with losses and tough games.
> 
> These 2 clubs make each other play better no matter what the standings. Hands down the best rivalry in sports.



Well said Jim, 6 is still alot in baseball, even with over 50games, i mean everytime the redsox win say they won 25 u gain no ground, and the other games they lose if you lose you gain no ground, its hard to make up 6 games, i do not like the fact however that they have exactly 6 games remaining with eachother. The yankees over the next 2 weeks will decide their fate, very tough schedule, alot of games with Detroit.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 8, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> You want fries with those words? I sure hope you don't have to eat them later. I remember the red sox blowing larger leads in less than a month before .. oh Detroit really has been on a roll lately .. losing .



 Oh everyone has blown leads i didnt mention they play Cleveland, Boston and the Angels who are beating the sox now and who the Yankees have never beaten in a big spot the last 5yrs.  I dont know if ill eat my words or not on the division or playoffs  but i do know the yankees are not winning the world series this year.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 8, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Oh everyone has blown leads i didnt mention they play Cleveland, Boston and the Angels who are beating the sox now and who the Yankees have never beaten in a big spot the last 5yrs.  I dont know if ill eat my words or not on the division or playoffs  but i do know the yankees are not winning the world series this year.



I like a brave Sox fan. Not afraid of silly curses or past history.

I had to listen hard because your words were being drowned out by the jogging footsteps that are now running at a fast pace. 

Down to 5 games.

Soon the footsteps become stomping.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 8, 2007)

blah blah blah.  would you rather be 5 games up or 5 games out.  

whatever,  you're still in second place.  And its taken an amazing run to get this close.  Its like in basketball.  A team is down 20 at halftime and makes a furious run to get within a basket or two with 4 minutes left.  Invariably, they never get over the hump cause they spent so much energy just trying to tie the score.  Same thing here.  Yanks will eventually lose a few games and the lead will go back to 7 or 8 and then there will be only 30 games left.  Make another little run, cut it to 4 then lose a couple and be back 6 with 20 games.  

Mark my words.  ITS OVER!


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 8, 2007)

2knees said:


> blah blah blah.  would you rather be 5 games up or 5 games out.
> 
> whatever,  you're still in second place.  And its taken an amazing run to get this close.  Its like in basketball.  A team is down 20 at halftime and makes a furious run to get within a basket or two with 4 minutes left.  Invariably, they never get over the hump cause they spent so much energy just trying to tie the score.  Same thing here.  Yanks will eventually lose a few games and the lead will go back to 7 or 8 and then there will be only 30 games left.  Make another little run, cut it to 4 then lose a couple and be back 6 with 20 games.
> 
> Mark my words.  ITS OVER!




I dont care if we catch the sox.  I really dont know that we can.  What I do know is that we can get into the playoff, from there on out everything is equal.  The next three weeks will tell the story.

BTW any of you roger haters watch him last night?   Great game and took care of business  
How about joba.  Oh boy!!!


----------



## JimG. (Aug 8, 2007)

2knees said:


> blah blah blah.  would you rather be 5 games up or 5 games out.
> 
> whatever,  you're still in second place.  And its taken an amazing run to get this close.  Its like in basketball.  A team is down 20 at halftime and makes a furious run to get within a basket or two with 4 minutes left.  Invariably, they never get over the hump cause they spent so much energy just trying to tie the score.  Same thing here.  Yanks will eventually lose a few games and the lead will go back to 7 or 8 and then there will be only 30 games left.  Make another little run, cut it to 4 then lose a couple and be back 6 with 20 games.
> 
> Mark my words.  ITS OVER!



Ah! Another brave Sox fan.

At this point, I'd rather be 5 games out than 14 games out like we were a month ago.

Unlike tjf67, I do care if we catch the Sox. The fact it's so unlikely still only makes it more appealing. And unlike your basketball analogy, the Yanks have done this before.

Long ago someone said the Yanks had to gain alot of ground before anyone could take them going to the playoffs seriously. I heard alot of "no ways" back then too.

As of today, with 6 games with the Sox left, The Yanks destiny is in their own hands regarding the division title. Fair game now as far as I can tell.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Ah! Another brave Sox fan.
> 
> At this point, I'd rather be 5 games out than 14 games out like we were a month ago.
> 
> ...




 Jim the way i look at it is this, the sox should never have been 14 games up, they were playing .700 baseball for 2months and the only team to do that for a season was the 98 yankees, so they had to come back to earth, and now the yankees are now what 19-8 since the all-star break, once again .700 baseball, this hot streak will end like the sox did, and the law of averages will work itself out where they should be playing .600 baseball which still gets you to 100 wins which is alot in most peoples eyes.  The Yankees season in the next 2 weeks not the 6 games with Boston, just say they  took 2/3 both series with boston, thats only 2 games you have gained, the next 2 weeks is where its at for yankee fans, end of story.  Lets talk then.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 8, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Lets talk then.



OK; but remember, I'm not a numbers guy. All that talk about .700 baseball means nothing to me.

And I agree that the next 2 weeks will tell us alot. August...when baseball really matters.

We're at where we're at, and the Yanks are in the thick of things.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 8, 2007)

The way I look at it is that we should be playing 700 baseball.   We are the yankees.  Our bench is better than half the leagues regulars.   

we keep winning three out of four and all is good with me


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> OK; but remember, I'm not a numbers guy. All that talk about .700 baseball means nothing to me.
> 
> And I agree that the next 2 weeks will tell us alot. August...when baseball really matters.
> 
> We're at where we're at, and the Yanks are in the thick of things.



 Hey and thats all you can ask for , id be happy to be in the playoff hunt and division hunt if i were a yankee fan considering where i was 2 months ago in the standings..


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 8, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> The way I look at it is that we should be playing 700 baseball.   We are the yankees.  Our bench is better than half the leagues regulars.
> 
> we keep winning three out of four and all is good with me



 Well they are playing well, im not sure their bench is that good but its not bad, too bad your bullpen isnt as good as half the leagues bullpens or else you really would be the Yankees now wouldnt ya.


----------



## ajl50 (Aug 8, 2007)

All hail Phil Hughes.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 8, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hey and thats all you can ask for , id be happy to be in the playoff hunt and division hunt if i were a yankee fan considering where i was 2 months ago in the standings..



I think we took care of some of our bullpen problems.  Did you see the game last night?   YIKES 97 MPH with a crazy slider.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 8, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well they are playing well, im not sure their bench is that good but its not bad, too bad your bullpen isnt as good as half the leagues bullpens or else you really would be the Yankees now wouldnt ya.



Ooofff!  Careful there.

Seen Mariano pitch lately? Classic form, back to blowing cut fastballs right by hitters.
I still don't trust the 8th inning guys. Viscaino might be decent, who knows yet about Chamberlin.

Hey, you have the best pen in baseball right now. You should be confident.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 8, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Ooofff!  Careful there.
> 
> Seen Mariano pitch lately? Classic form, back to blowing cut fastballs right by hitters.
> I still don't trust the 8th inning guys. Viscaino might be decent, who knows yet about Chamberlin.
> ...



  Im still not sold on Okie, i mean i think hes good because of his quirky motion to the plate and nobody has seen him, not sure come next year how he will be, i do have alot of confidence in Pap and Gagne though.. I saw Mo, i wasnt referring to him, i meant innings 6-8, i have never lost any confidence in Mo getting the job done even when he wasnt doing much in the beginning of the year, hes the whole reason you have half those rings in the last decade and thats a fact.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 10, 2007)

Here we go.  The next 20 days are going to determine our season


----------



## JimG. (Aug 10, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Here we go.  The next 20 days are going to determine our season



I'll be watching or listening to every game.

The best baseball has to offer-August/September.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 10, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I'll be watching or listening to every game.
> 
> The best baseball has to offer-August/September.



You betcha.   As long as the yanks are in it.  which most times is a foregone conclusion.

Whod a thunk Wang is our most vonerable pitcher right now.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 10, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> You betcha.   As long as the yanks are in it.  which most times is a foregone conclusion.
> 
> Whod a thunk Wang is our most vonerable pitcher right now.




OH wang will be fine, id be more worried that you wasted all those runs in the last month and are gonna need some of them coming up.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 12, 2007)

Ok before Jim G starts with him footsteps and running ill just say this, i was impressed by the Yankees sweeping cleveland, Boston took 3/4 from them last week maybe they are just not good, andyes Bostons bullpen just blew 2 straight games, however the Yanks schedule is very tough the next 2 weeks and they will lose some games im sure u thought they will win.. I am not worried, i expect this lead to be 5 games or more when they both meet in 2 weeks, if its 3 or less ill be very concerned.. Ok Jim fire away lol


----------



## JimG. (Aug 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Ok before Jim G starts with him footsteps and running ill just say this, i was impressed by the Yankees sweeping cleveland, Boston took 3/4 from them last week maybe they are just not good, andyes Bostons bullpen just blew 2 straight games, however the Yanks schedule is very tough the next 2 weeks and they will lose some games im sure u thought they will win.. I am not worried, i expect this lead to be 5 games or more when they both meet in 2 weeks, if its 3 or less ill be very concerned.. Ok Jim fire away lol



Heh...nah, you did great. Baseball is not my favorite sport, but it is a great team sport. Teams are always at their best when the whole lineup contributes which the Yanks lacked in the first half. Now, with Cano, Cabrera, Matsui, and Abreau hammering the ball along with the usual from Jeter, Posada, and A-rod (Yup, I'm putting him in there; the guy has shut me up for now) the Yanks are scoring at a scary pace. Cleveland looked sick.

Down to 4.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 13, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> OH wang will be fine, id be more worried that you wasted all those runs in the last month and are gonna need some of them coming up.



What you are seeing now is what we should have been doing the past two years.  With that line up I expect us to score 7.6 runs per game.
I think Duncan need to calm down a little with that arm banging we dont need anyone going out on IR because of it.  The kid is hillarious.  I love watching him

Mr Wang do your stuff tonight.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 14, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> What you are seeing now is what we should have been doing the past two years.  With that line up I expect us to score 7.6 runs per game.
> I think Duncan need to calm down a little with that arm banging we dont need anyone going out on IR because of it.  The kid is hillarious.  I love watching him
> 
> Mr Wang do your stuff tonight.



 Well he didnt do his stuff and neither did Mariano but they pulled it out again, things are going their way.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 14, 2007)

Not to change gears but i wonder if Wang will go through a Derek Lowe like low point.  He's basically a one pitch guy and if that sinker is up, lookout.  combine that with the incredible lack of strikeouts and he's bound to struggle at times.  Seeing eye hits, bloops, cant get the strikeout when needed.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 14, 2007)

2knees said:


> Not to change gears but i wonder if Wang will go through a Derek Lowe like low point.  He's basically a one pitch guy and if that sinker is up, lookout.  combine that with the incredible lack of strikeouts and he's bound to struggle at times.  Seeing eye hits, bloops, cant get the strikeout when needed.



He was bad last night. The ball was up and when he tried to get it down he threw in the dirt. Had a wild pitch in the first inning.

Combine that with Mariano getting dinked for a run on some of the weakest "hits" you'll ever see and I thought they were going to lose. It was only fitting they won on that silly infield hit by Jeter.

I'm really glad they won by stringing together a few hits and not just pounding a walk off homer. The whole lineup is hitting and seeing the ball really well right now.

Boston won and Seattle is still hanging tough. If it comes to the wildcard, Seattle scares me way more than Cleveland or Detroit.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 14, 2007)

JimG. said:


> He was bad last night. The ball was up and when he tried to get it down he threw in the dirt. Had a wild pitch in the first inning.
> 
> Combine that with Mariano getting dinked for a run on some of the weakest "hits" you'll ever see and I thought they were going to lose. It was only fitting they won on that silly infield hit by Jeter.
> 
> ...



  Well as with Cleveland and Detroit youll have your chance to fix that issue..,
Mon. 3 Seattle 1:05 PM YES  Yankee Stadium     
Tue. 4 Seattle 7:05 PM YES  Yankee Stadium    
Wed. 5 Seattle 7:05 PM YES  Yankee Stadium


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 14, 2007)

Wang did his job.  He had a tough first inning but settled down.  Not his normal self but thats OK.  He saved us early in the season.
How abut JOBO  he is the man.  I would have like him to take the 9th.

I kinda thought Rivera was trying to hard to impress the kid.  I actually think he may be a little intimidated by  him and trying to impress.  He has no reason to but that my take.

Milky with the arm.  Abreau over shot the mark that would have been a great way to end the game.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 14, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Wang did his job.  He had a tough first inning but settled down.  Not his normal self but thats OK.  He saved us early in the season.
> How abut JOBO  he is the man.  I would have like him to take the 9th.
> 
> I kinda thought Rivera was trying to hard to impress the kid.  I actually think he may be a little intimidated by  him and trying to impress.  He has no reason to but that my take.
> ...



I have to admit that Joba impressed me alot; nasty slider. Big intimidating stature. The future closer.

Melky has been a big part of the current winning streak, has hit in 18 straight.

I thought it was funny that Posada argued a little with the ump on Abreau's throw. Looked like he was saying he stepped on the runner's leg, doesn't that count?


----------



## 2knees (Aug 14, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I thought it was funny that Posada argued a little with the ump on Abreau's throw. Looked like he was saying he stepped on the runner's leg, doesn't that count?




He did step on the runners leg.  It doesnt matter though unless posada had the ball stuck to the bottom of his cleat.  It wasnt a force play.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 14, 2007)

2knees said:


> He did step on the runners leg.  It doesnt matter though unless posada had the ball stuck to the bottom of his cleat.  It wasnt a force play.



True, but that didn't really matter either because that leg touched home before Posada stepped on it.

You must have despised the way that game ended. A nubber to the shallow infield.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 14, 2007)

So the Yanks get 2 hits off a guy they should have killed, then they get killed, Gagne comes in for the sox and strikes out the side in the top of the 9th, and then tie and win the game in the bottom of the 9th, thats baseball for ya.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 15, 2007)

OOF it was a tough one last night.  Turned to the golf channel to decompress.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 15, 2007)

JimG. said:


> True, but that didn't really matter either because that leg touched home before Posada stepped on it.
> 
> You must have despised the way that game ended. A nubber to the shallow infield.



It wasnt fun to watch by any means.  Last night was, however!


----------



## JimG. (Aug 15, 2007)

2knees said:


> It wasnt fun to watch by any means.  Last night was, however!



I'm sure...I'm sure your feeling better about GAGne too.

I'm not sure that's good though...you guys have the best 8-9 in baseball with Okajima and Papelbon; you didn't need GAGne. Theo did a Yankee on that one...fixing something that wasn't broken, adding to a wealth of riches. 

Does GAGne have any postseason experience?


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 15, 2007)

2knees said:


> It wasnt fun to watch by any means.  Last night was, however!



Spoken like a true Boston fan


----------



## 2knees (Aug 15, 2007)

you no like me sentance strukture?

the grammar poh-leese.

what did NWA sing about?  f*** the police.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 15, 2007)

So Mo blows it today after the yanks tie it up, the sox almost come all the way back but in the end they both lose.  Sox have a tough weekend series with the Angels, Yanks the same with the Tigers.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 16, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> So Mo blows it today after the yanks tie it up, the sox almost come all the way back but in the end they both lose.  Sox have a tough weekend series with the Angels, Yanks the same with the Tigers.



Seattle lost too...no change from yesterday.

Rivera is going through his usual mid-season slump a little later because he wasn't used as much as usual until now. He's had NOTHING his last 3 appearances.

The Yanks bench has gone from terrible to good.


----------



## tjf67 (Aug 16, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Seattle lost too...no change from yesterday.
> 
> Rivera is going through his usual mid-season slump a little later because he wasn't used as much as usual until now. He's had NOTHING his last 3 appearances.
> 
> The Yanks bench has gone from terrible to good.




He has really lost it for now.  His fast ball is only getting to 92/93.  It is usually in the 94/95and the cutter is not cutting. 

No real worries for now but it time to get back on the horse and start puching ahead again.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 17, 2007)

When you think about how long rivera has dominated basically throwing just a cutter, its almost hard to believe.  

the guy is a freak of nature and the best closer ever.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 17, 2007)

3 losses in a row...if they start going back the other way again it's over.

They have to win the next 3 games.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> 3 losses in a row...if they start going back the other way again it's over.
> 
> They have to win the next 3 games.



 If Gagne keeps blowing games the yankees wont have to worry about losing 3 in a row, this guy is pissing me off, thats 3 out of 4 hes blown in 1 week..


----------



## JimG. (Aug 20, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> If Gagne keeps blowing games the yankees wont have to worry about losing 3 in a row, this guy is pissing me off, thats 3 out of 4 hes blown in 1 week..



I thought about you guys when GAGne blew that game on Saturday. Bad mojo that carried over to yesterday.

Despite it all, the Yanks are exactly where they were last Monday...4 games out. Winning 3 in a row only offset losing 3 in a row.

Shows you how hard it really is to gain ground this time of year.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 20, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I thought about you guys when GAGne blew that game on Saturday. Bad mojo that carried over to yesterday.
> 
> Despite it all, the Yanks are exactly where they were last Monday...4 games out. Winning 3 in a row only offset losing 3 in a row.
> 
> Shows you how hard it really is to gain ground this time of year.



 Now we will see what happens whey they play Anaheim, they are pretty good, oh and i believe the only team Joe Torre has a losing record against in the regular season as the yankees manager.  I still say its 5 or 6 games when they get together..


----------



## JimG. (Aug 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Now we will see what happens whey they play Anaheim, they are pretty good, oh and i believe the only team Joe Torre has a losing record against in the regular season as the yankees manager.  I still say its 5 or 6 games when they get together..



That was one hell of a game neither team would be ashamed to lose. 

My only question is why the hell SEAN HENN was pitching in the bottom of the 10th.


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> That was one hell of a game neither team would be ashamed to lose.
> 
> My only question is why the hell SEAN HENN was pitching in the bottom of the 10th.




SEAN who???????


----------



## JimG. (Aug 21, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> SEAN who???????



Who is on first.

Henn was pitching.

I didn't even know he was a Yankee.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 21, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Who is on first.
> 
> Henn was pitching.
> 
> I didn't even know he was a Yankee.



 That makes 2 of us Jim. Well its midnight i was watching the yanks make a pretty good comeback cutting the lead to 7-5, but ummm well its now 13-5 Angels in the 4th, i feel its safe to go to bed now.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 22, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> That makes 2 of us Jim. Well its midnight i was watching the yanks make a pretty good comeback cutting the lead to 7-5, but ummm well its now 13-5 Angels in the 4th, i feel its safe to go to bed now.



Henn was able to join in again on the damage in last night's rout...Mussina is done. The guy can't win a big game anymore. All you really missed was Anderson's grand slam in the 7th.

I'm beginning to question if the best team in the AL isn't the Angels. won 4 of 5 from Yanks/Sox so far.

Tonight, Pettite gets to back up my claim that he's a pitching stud...Yanks have to win this one and he's up against Lackey who had a bad outing last start. Tough one.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 22, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Henn was able to join in again on the damage in last night's rout...Mussina is done. The guy can't win a big game anymore. All you really missed was Anderson's grand slam in the 7th.
> 
> I'm beginning to question if the best team in the AL isn't the Angels. won 4 of 5 from Yanks/Sox so far.
> 
> Tonight, Pettite gets to back up my claim that he's a pitching stud...Yanks have to win this one and he's up against Lackey who had a bad outing last start. Tough one.



ummm Jim the sox split with them and only Gagne kept the sox from winning 3 out of 4.  Dont lump the red sox in with your miserable numbers against the angels.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 22, 2007)

2knees said:


> ummm Jim the sox split with them and only Gagne kept the sox from winning 3 out of 4.  Dont lump the red sox in with your miserable numbers against the angels.



Admit it Pat, the Angels scare you...what would be worse than seeing the Yanks miss out on the playoffs only for the Sox to lose to the Angels?

GAGne only makes it worse.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 22, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Admit it Pat, the Angels scare you...what would be worse than seeing the Yanks miss out on the playoffs only for the Sox to lose to the Angels?
> 
> GAGne only makes it worse.




Hell yeah they scare me.  They are a very balanced team.  The only thing they lack is power but they still score their fair share of runs which is all that matters.  Bullpen is A+.  Escobar, Lackey and Weaver are all top notch starters and they have speed to burn.

But i couldnt let those facts get in the way of needling a yankee fan when the opportunity arose.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 22, 2007)

2knees said:


> Hell yeah they scare me.  They are a very balanced team.  The only thing they lack is power but they still score their fair share of runs which is all that matters.  Bullpen is A+.  Escobar, Lackey and Weaver are all top notch starters and they have speed to burn.
> 
> But i couldnt let those facts get in the way of needling a yankee fan when the opportunity arose.



 The Angels are good Jim, but unlike the yanks the redsox beat them in the playoffs in 2004, im sure it would go 7 games this time around.


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 23, 2007)

Also the angels have memories of Dave Henderson much like the sox have of bucky dent.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 23, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> The Angels are good Jim, but unlike the yanks the redsox beat them in the playoffs in 2004, im sure it would go 7 games this time around.



If you say so...I don't know how you can be so sure though.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 23, 2007)

Pettitte...Stud.

Wins 2/3rds of his starts after losses. BIG win last night...pitched brilliantly. 5th straight win.

11-7 record. 6 no decisions in games he gave up 2 runs (earned and unearned) or less. If the Yanks had played at all up to their potential in the first half he would be leading the league in wins.

Not that it would matter because he gets no respect and would never win the Cy Young. They'll give it to Santana again even though his team is out of it.

A good night for Yanks fans...a game gained on both Boston and Seattle.


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 23, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Pettitte...Stud.
> 
> Wins 2/3rds of his starts after losses. BIG win last night...pitched brilliantly. 5th straight win.
> 
> ...



Of course if you want to play what if Beckett would not only be leading the league in wins but have 20+ as he has at least 6 games with a no decision or loss where he gave up 2 runs or less including a 1-0 complete game loss.

just remember Petite is 11-7 with a 3.69 era

Beckett 15-5 with a 3.15 era


----------



## JimG. (Aug 23, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Of course if you want to play what if Beckett would not only be leading the league in wins but have 20+ as he has at least 6 games with a no decision or loss where he gave up 2 runs or less including a 1-0 complete game loss.
> 
> just remember Petite is 11-7 with a 3.69 era
> 
> Beckett 15-5 with a 3.15 era



But weren't you guys killing Beckett and the Sox for trading for him last season?

Andy is steady and sure...not a one or two season wonder.

This is what I meant about no respect...there's always someone else people want to throw at you when you talk about Pettitte.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 23, 2007)

JimG. said:


> But weren't you guys killing Beckett and the Sox for trading for him last season?
> 
> Andy is steady and sure...not a one or two season wonder.
> 
> This is what I meant about no respect...there's always someone else people want to throw at you when you talk about Pettitte.



  Well heres some respect Jim, No i didnt  wanna throw Beckett under the bus after last year, i have a 2yr grace period for playing in Boston or Ny.  If i had a big game to win, a big game the guys who come to my mind are Andy and Schilling, ya i know schilling is just about done this year but those are the guys i want pitching a game i have to win in a big spot, not Beckett or Wang.. And when he was a Yankee i would throw David Wells right in there if i needed  a win in a big spot.. And if i had to get a save in October i want MO on the mound over Papelbon, and all this is coming from a redsox fan so theres your respect!


----------



## JimG. (Aug 24, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well heres some respect Jim, No i didnt  wanna throw Beckett under the bus after last year, i have a 2yr grace period for playing in Boston or Ny.  If i had a big game to win, a big game the guys who come to my mind are Andy and Schilling, ya i know schilling is just about done this year but those are the guys i want pitching a game i have to win in a big spot, not Beckett or Wang.. And when he was a Yankee i would throw David Wells right in there if i needed  a win in a big spot.. And if i had to get a save in October i want MO on the mound over Papelbon, and all this is coming from a redsox fan so theres your respect!



Wow...I'm speechless.

I hated the Yankees for letting Pettitte go to Houston. I wouldn't watch games the year after he left.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 25, 2007)

Sox take a doubleheader and i walk in my door at 3am stay up til 332am and watch the yanks serve up the game winning homer, it was a nice night even with the bad hangover today.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 26, 2007)

Well all i can say is, that was the best 4game series ive seen the redsox play in a long long time, ya it was the White sox but they did have 2 tough pitchers going and the redsox just destroyed them like a good team should.. As i thought the redsox would be at least 6games up going into the Yankees series, which now well is almost meaningless from my viewpoint, and im happy to say it..  The yanks will probably lose to Verlander and be 8 games back.. This division is OVER!  And go ahead and quote me Jim G  but u know it is.  No pressure on the Sox and all on the Yankees. This is about the yankees now and trying to get a wildcard birth, Seattle wont be there in the end they have a very tough schedule, the redsox might just ruin your playoff hopes all together if they take say 4/6 from ya.  Even if the yankees make the playoffs, guess who they play because they wont win the division?  Ya the Angels, Either way the yankee starters will be playing golf by mid october, your thoughts??????


----------



## 2knees (Aug 26, 2007)

JimG. said:


> But weren't you guys killing Beckett and the Sox for trading for him last season?
> 
> Andy is steady and sure...not a one or two season wonder.
> 
> This is what I meant about no respect...there's always someone else people want to throw at you when you talk about Pettitte.



Come on Jim.  Pettitte is a very good pitcher who gets more then his fair share of respect.  He just isnt as good as some yankee fans see him through their pinstripped glasses.  12 years in the bigs with 7 of them having era's over 4.  Not exactly hall of fame material.  Good pitcher? Yes.  Big game pitcher?  I'd give you that, but completely consistent?  nope.  he won alot of games for superior yankee teams.  And he doesnt even warrant consideration for the cy young. Not with Beckett, Verlander, Bedard, Santana and Haren WAYYYYY better then himself this year.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 26, 2007)

2knees said:


> Come on Jim.  Pettitte is a very good pitcher who gets more then his fair share of respect.  He just isnt as good as some yankee fans see him through their pinstripped glasses.  12 years in the bigs with 7 of them having era's over 4.  Not exactly hall of fame material.  Good pitcher? Yes.  Big game pitcher?  I'd give you that, but completely consistent?  nope.  he won alot of games for superior yankee teams.  And he doesnt even warrant consideration for the cy young. Not with Beckett, Verlander, Bedard, Santana and Haren WAYYYYY better then himself this year.



 I sorta have to disagree with you a bit, yes he was on superior teams, but he always came up big in big games and this year he has come up huge, hes had about what 3 starts now with the Yanks on losing streaks of 3 and has stopped them, the guy gets it done no matter if his team wins 100 games or 80, id take him in a minute over all of those guys except Santana.. Beckett won a big game once in the world series the rest are unproven in big spots as far as im concerned..


----------



## 2knees (Aug 26, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I sorta have to disagree with you a bit, yes he was on superior teams, but he always came up big in big games and this year he has come up huge, hes had about what 3 starts now with the Yanks on losing streaks of 3 and has stopped them, the guy gets it done no matter if his team wins 100 games or 80, id take him in a minute over all of those guys except Santana.. Beckett won a big game once in the world series the rest are unproven in big spots as far as im concerned..



Never said he doesnt win alot of big games.  Just saying he gets alot of respect.  He also shouldnt be mentioned in the same catergory of my above mentioned pitchers for this years cy young.  Not a discussion of who i would take, right now, in a big game.  

But to answer, i would take Santana, Beckett and even Lackey and maybe Halladay before Pettitte.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 26, 2007)

2knees said:


> Never said he doesnt win alot of big games.  Just saying he gets alot of respect.  He also shouldnt be mentioned in the same catergory of my above mentioned pitchers for this years cy young.  Not a discussion of who i would take, right now, in a big game.
> 
> But to answer, i would take Santana, Beckett and even Lackey and maybe Halladay before Pettitte.



  I understand where your coming from and regular season id probably agree with you, i just havent seen all those guys you mentioned in a tough spot in the playoffs enough to say that, Andy i have seen do it time and time again and consistently get the job done.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 27, 2007)

Sean Henn.

They won't win the division, and if they lose the wildcard I know who my new whipping boy is going to be.

Sean Henn, as soon as I saw his sorry ass I knew it was over.

I mean, Guillen wouldn't swing at anything unless it was down and in...the 2 pitches he swung at during the at bat were down and in. Where does Henny boy serve it up? Down and in and the guy golfs it over the wall. Anyone paying attention? BAD LOSS.

Where did this blight of a relief pitcher come from?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 27, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Sean Henn.
> 
> They won't win the division, and if they lose the wildcard I know who my new whipping boy is going to be.
> 
> ...



  Alright Jim, hey the wildcard chase is alot more exciting anyways, trust me its all ive looked forward to for 11yrs.


----------



## Sky (Aug 27, 2007)

E Frickin Gad!

16  to zip


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 27, 2007)

Wow is this really the NY yankees talk about looking towards the next series, they didnt even show up tonite, sorry Jim but like i said the numbers catch up with you eventually even though you dont believe in it.


----------



## Rushski (Aug 28, 2007)

Eight games back from the Sox - Bye Bye Yanks...


----------



## MarkC (Aug 28, 2007)

Moose needs to be taken out back and shot.  He has nothing left.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 28, 2007)

Mussina...0-7 this season in starts after losses.

NOT Andy Pettitte.

Someone please shoot Mussina and put him out of our misery.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Aug 28, 2007)

Moose
Igawa
Pavano
Karstens (becoming a starter and promptly falling apart)
Hughes (injury, not performance)

And still in the thick of the WC hunt....

A-Rod for MVP!!!!

The Yanks just keep overcoming adversity.  As such, the team reflects all that is good and right about the United States of America.  If the Sox had suffered the same difficulties this year, the team surely would have IMPLODED by July 4 (see last year's five-game sweep for the latest example).

Yes, I'm deliberately being annoying (well, more annoying than usual).


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 28, 2007)

Back to the what if's I see.

I was kind of shocked to see a 16-0 pasting this morning.  You don't win many games scoring ZERO runs.  Complain about a weak/hurt/ just plain iffy pitching staff all you want but but 0 runs equals a loss in any baseball game I've ever seen.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 28, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Back to the what if's I see.
> 
> I was kind of shocked to see a 16-0 pasting this morning.  You don't win many games scoring ZERO runs.  Complain about a weak/hurt/ just plain iffy pitching staff all you want but but 0 runs equals a loss in any baseball game I've ever seen.



Yeah, but you don't win many games where your pitchers give up 16 runs; at that point you may as well save the runs for another game.

I didn't watch after the 3rd...did Sean Henn get to give up some runs too?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yeah, but you don't win many games where your pitchers give up 16 runs; at that point you may as well save the runs for another game.
> 
> I didn't watch after the 3rd...did Sean Henn get to give up some runs too?



   But of course Jim, here are the Yankee pitcher lines from last night.

Pitchers IP  H  R ER BB SO HR PC-ST ERA 
M Mussina (L, 8-10) 3.0 9 6 6 1 0 0 72-49 5.53 
E Ramirez 1.0 1 1 1 1 1 1 23-11 5.91 
S Henn 2.2 8 9 7 5 4 0 79-42 7.49 
B Bruney 1.1 2 0 0 0 0 0 28-20 3.22 

 He only gave up 7 earned runs last night not bad lol..   This is kinda weird im not even excited about tonites sox/yanks game, its just kinda ho hum, my team is already in the playoffs, very strange to be on this side of it for once..


----------



## Sky (Aug 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> at that point you may as well save the runs for another game.



You're joking...right?  "Save the runs for another game"?  The Tigers should have "saved" some of those runs for later in the season....they only needed the one run last night.  *smirk*


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 28, 2007)

Well Andy pitched pretty well as i knew he would once again backing up my opinion of him doing well in big games.. Really wasnt too exciting 5-3win for the yanks, just ho hum here as a sox fan..


----------



## JimG. (Aug 29, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well Andy pitched pretty well as i knew he would once again backing up my opinion of him doing well in big games.. Really wasnt too exciting 5-3win for the yanks, just ho hum here as a sox fan..



Ho-hum, eh? Don't get too spoiled. What's up with the golden boy from Japan? Getting roughed up a little the third time around the league.

Andy is my man...6-0 in August with a 2.36 ERA. Always there when it counts.

And now Seattle is playing some real teams...and losing. 

Yanks 1 out in the wildcard now. Whatever happens the next 2 games, expect to see the Yanks again come playoff time.


----------



## tree_skier (Aug 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Ho-hum, eh? Don't get too spoiled. What's up with the golden boy from Japan? Getting roughed up a little the third time around the league.



He didn't have his best proformance but still it was just 5 runs into the 7th. unlike mussina's 9 through 3rd in his last outing.

Tonight you get to look forward to watching Beckett vs. the fat old man.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 29, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> He didn't have his best proformance but still it was just 5 runs into the 7th. unlike mussina's 9 through 3rd in his last outing.
> 
> Tonight you get to look forward to watching Beckett vs. the fat old man.



Just the fact you mentioned Mussina in the same post as Matsuzaka should have Sox fans worried.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Just the fact you mentioned Mussina in the same post as Matsuzaka should have Sox fans worried.



 lol thats true.  Im not spoiled im just saying.. And Jim Seattle was never even on my radar, the only good thing you have going for you is Cleveland and Detroit play eachother more down the road.. Detroit is who you need to look out for not Seattle..


----------



## JimG. (Aug 29, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> lol thats true.  Im not spoiled im just saying.. And Jim Seattle was never even on my radar, the only good thing you have going for you is Cleveland and Detroit play eachother more down the road.. Detroit is who you need to look out for not Seattle..



Last night....

Seattle lost.

Detroit lost.

Cleveland lost.

Detroit does not concern me...Seattle does and will until and if they are beaten in the 3 game series next week.

I don't watch Boston radar. LOL.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Last night....
> 
> Seattle lost.
> 
> ...



 Look at Seattles schudule, trust me when i tell you both Detroit and Cleveland will have a better record than them


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 29, 2007)

The Redsox missed Manny's bat in the lineup tonite, the old fat man actually pitched good.  Im still not worried, although at about 5pm tomorrow i might change my tune.

 Hey Jim i have  a good stat i heard for Mussina, in his last 3 games hes thrown 220 pitches, of all those pitches he only has 8 swings with a miss, now thats when you know you lost your stuff.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Aug 30, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> the old fat man



The "old fat man" is 45 and still performs at a world class level.  He's a living, breathing legend.

Boston's own fat man takes the mound tonight.  I wonder if he'll be using a red marker on his ankle again to recapture some of that old magic.  It worked for him before.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 30, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> The Redsox missed Manny's bat in the lineup tonite, the old fat man actually pitched good.  Im still not worried, although at about 5pm tomorrow i might change my tune.
> 
> Hey Jim i have  a good stat i heard for Mussina, in his last 3 games hes thrown 220 pitches, of all those pitches he only has 8 swings with a miss, now thats when you know you lost your stuff.



Yup, I hate to admit it but Clemens pitched very well. Beckett did not impress me even though he did pitch pretty well also...but not well enough.

The Yankees need the sweep today. We need to win ballgames and be tied with Seattle (who got swept by the Angels) at worst when they play them next week.

Unless he's injured, Mussina is done.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 30, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Look at Seattles schudule, trust me when i tell you both Detroit and Cleveland will have a better record than them



Trust you?

You're a Red Sox fan.

LOL.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Aug 30, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yup, I hate to admit it but Clemens pitched very well. Beckett did not impress me even though he did pitch pretty well also...but not well enough.
> 
> The Yankees need the sweep today. We need to win ballgames and be tied with Seattle (who got swept by the Angels) at worst when they play them next week.
> 
> Unless he's injured, Mussina is done.




Jim, no way the Mariners hang around.  They are entering a brutal stretch, and their deck of cards will come crashing down.

It's AL Central vs. Yanks for the wild card with the Yankees in control (though if the Yanks beat the Sox in their four remaining games, the Sox's lead will be only two games with 25 or so to play....yes, wild dreaming is a good thing).

Re: Moose.  No way he's this bad so quickly.  He could probably rebound.  But, it might not be worth the risk to find out, especially with other options on the table with much higher upside (Kennedy, Ian).


----------



## JimG. (Aug 30, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Jim, no way the Mariners hang around.  They are entering a brutal stretch, and their deck of cards will come crashing down.
> 
> It's AL Central vs. Yanks for the wild card with the Yankees in control (though if the Yanks beat the Sox in their four remaining games, the Sox's lead will be only two games with 25 or so to play....yes, wild dreaming is a good thing).
> 
> Re: Moose.  No way he's this bad so quickly.  He could probably rebound.  But, it might not be worth the risk to find out, especially with other options on the table with much higher upside (Kennedy, Ian).



I don't agree with you about the Mariners...they've been playing about as well as the Yanks and just recently lost some games. Although the disaster in Texas may be telling. In any case, they always seem to play well against the Yanks and that's what concerns me.

I've seen enough of Mussina...he's been off all season and it's just gotten worse with time.

I've had more than enough of Sean Henn and Kyle Farnsworth too.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 30, 2007)

SWEET!!!

Yanks just broke the game open...5-0 bottom 8th, 2 out.

The broom is about to come out of the closet.


----------



## 2knees (Aug 30, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The broom is about to come out of the closet.




are Jeter and Arod going to come out too?


----------



## JimG. (Aug 30, 2007)

2knees said:


> are Jeter and Arod going to come out too?




Nope, just a big old broom...5-0 final.


SWEEP...SWEEP...SWEEP

Joba pitched a perfect 8th and started the 9th but got thrown out for pitching high and tight 2 pitches in a row. I guess he got the Sox a little scared. They like to throw at the Yanks but don't like the pay back, especially when it's random.

Joba has an attitude for a young kid and I like it.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 30, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Nope, just a big old broom...5-0 final.
> 
> 
> SWEEP...SWEEP...SWEEP
> ...



 Well the yankees were playing for their lives and this was their little world series, the redsox were a little to ho-hum for me.. Almost too relaxed , i didnt see any excitement to win these games, i mean all  they needed was 1 is that asking too much.  I still dont think the yanks will catch them in the division but they made a  statement and are to be feared in the playoffs, i think they now lead the sox in the season series 8-7.  Hmmm The yanks are going one direction, and the Mets and redsox are not.


----------



## JimG. (Aug 31, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well the yankees were playing for their lives and this was their little world series, the redsox were a little to ho-hum for me.. Almost too relaxed , i didnt see any excitement to win these games, i mean all  they needed was 1 is that asking too much.  I still dont think the yanks will catch them in the division but they made a  statement and are to be feared in the playoffs, i think they now lead the sox in the season series 8-7.  Hmmm The yanks are going one direction, and the Mets and redsox are not.



Well, Youkilis got pretty riled up...first on the out of the basepaths call (which was debatable but correct) and then those ridiculous (I finally saw replays of the 2 pitches and that was obvious) pitches Joba threw over his head. 

Youkliis has fire in his gut...I like that.

I'm going over to that Mets thread to do a little stirring.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 2, 2007)

Jim do you believe me now about the Mariners? They have lost 8 in a row and the schedule only gets tougher.. Was nice to see the young kid for the  Sox throw a No-hitter last night.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 2, 2007)

It pains me to say this, but not only do I think the Yankees are a lock for the playoffs, I also consider them the favorite to win the World Series.  I think they'll roll in the playoffs unless they face the Angels whom for whatever reason, they struggle against.

I'm the biggest sox fan you'll ever meet, well maybe not the biggest, but pretty darn into it and our team right now is the least impressive squad I've ever seen with the best record in baseball.  Lack of clutch hitting is just horrendous on this squad.  I think we've won a total of 2 games when behind in the 8th inning - pathetic.  

If they don't win the World Series, which I don't think they will, Theo Epstein should be FIRED.  In fact I'm all for firing the guy even if we do win.  It's not even the horrible signings of Drew and Lugo.  It's the fact that he wasted the best pitching staff of a generation by not trading for what the team needed at the half - hitting.  Dye was there for the taking and he wouldn't pull the trigger.  I DON'T CARE if Jacoby Elsbury and Jon Lester are the future.  The only person that should've been deemed untradeable is whom you saw throw a no-hitter last night - Buckholz.  I had been following him on the Sea Dogs and he's a fantastic pitching talent - far superior to Lester.  

The kind of attitude that Theo showed this summer, not mortgaging the future to win now, is the kind of attitude that left this city without a championship for 86 years.  

When you've got great pitching an aging stars like Ortiz and Manny who will only go downhill next year - you trade and play to win NOW.  Theo did not do that and should be shown the door for it to make an example that this franchise is finished with, 'There's always next year' under their name.

rant over


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 2, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> It pains me to say this, but not only do I think the Yankees are a lock for the playoffs, I also consider them the favorite to win the World Series.  I think they'll roll in the playoffs unless they face the Angels whom for whatever reason, they struggle against.
> 
> I'm the biggest sox fan you'll ever meet, well maybe not the biggest, but pretty darn into it and our team right now is the least impressive squad I've ever seen with the best record in baseball.  Lack of clutch hitting is just horrendous on this squad.  I think we've won a total of 2 games when behind in the 8th inning - pathetic.
> 
> ...



Geesh, i am also a sox fan and unfortunately i do see the yankees now making the playoffs, but as a wildcard team.. I dont see them however winning the world series.. All they do is club you to death, except for wang no starter goes into the 7th hardly ever anymore for them, their hitting will not hold up in the playoffs whether its the Angels or not.  I will say we Overpaid for Dice-K, he hasnt been all that but we hardly ever score any runs for the guy.  Beckett has been good, Wakefield unreal for his age, im still not sold on Lester or Buckholz.  I dont think many teams can match the redsox starting pitching and bullpen, id say they have the worst offense of all 4 teams that will make the playoffs from the AL but pitching wins in the playoffs not home-runs.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 4, 2007)

I await  all of your comments on this weekends events?  7 game lead with 24 to go.. Here ill do the math for you Yankee fans, 18 is the magic number for yankee AL east extinction.. But i think its alot less, lets say the redsox go 12-12 the rest of the way, u would give them that right? Well theres 12 games you cant make up any ground so the way i look at it is you only have 12 games to make up ground in redsox losses with 3 against them.. Its over , i sure hope there are not any yankee fans left in here that actually think they are winning the AL east??  Wild card, wild card, that i think youll back your way into, for once youll know how it is to play all the games left in the season, use your pitching staff, bullpen included until the last day of the season which wont let you line up your starters the way you want them for the first round.. Ahhhh its been a long time coming, welcome to my world the past 11yrs.


----------



## tree_skier (Sep 4, 2007)

I see the fat old man came threw again last night.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 4, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I await  all of your comments on this weekends events?  7 game lead with 24 to go.. Here ill do the math for you Yankee fans, 18 is the magic number for yankee AL east extinction.. But i think its alot less, lets say the redsox go 12-12 the rest of the way, u would give them that right? Well theres 12 games you cant make up any ground so the way i look at it is you only have 12 games to make up ground in redsox losses with 3 against them.. Its over , i sure hope there are not any yankee fans left in here that actually think they are winning the AL east??  Wild card, wild card, that i think youll back your way into, for once youll know how it is to play all the games left in the season, use your pitching staff, bullpen included until the last day of the season which wont let you line up your starters the way you want them for the first round.. Ahhhh its been a long time coming, welcome to my world the past 11yrs.



I have not thought we could win the division if two months.  All I want to do is get to the playoffs.  Its a whole new season at that point.  I am worried that we wont even do that.

I dont think either team is getting past the angels.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 4, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> I have not thought we could win the division if two months.  All I want to do is get to the playoffs.  Its a whole new season at that point.  I am worried that we wont even do that.
> 
> I dont think either team is getting past the angels.



  Why not?  The yankees always lose to them, i think we split the season series with them, they are good and it would go 7 games, ummm the sox did beat the angels in 2004 it can be done.


----------



## deadheadskier (Sep 4, 2007)

I should bash my team a little more often.  They've played quite well since my rant.

Hopefully Tito has the sack to bench Coco or hopefully Drew once Manny gets back and keep Jacoby in the game.  I've been calling for him to be an everyday player since I saw him Portland early in the year.  Kid has got GAME


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 5, 2007)

deadheadskier said:


> I should bash my team a little more often.  They've played quite well since my rant.
> 
> Hopefully Tito has the sack to bench Coco or hopefully Drew once Manny gets back and keep Jacoby in the game.  I've been calling for him to be an everyday player since I saw him Portland early in the year.  Kid has got GAME



  I tell ya what i was all for benching Coco, but boy does that guy play defense, he gets to everyball with such ease, i think now i can handle him hitting 270 as long as i get that kinda defense everyday which we have had.  Jacoby has been good this past week, alot of good young youth in the last week, With all the youth movement its almost hard to believe Pedroia is a Rook himself.


----------



## ChileMass (Sep 5, 2007)

JD Drew is the guy that needs to sit.  And Manny can take his time coming back the way Ellsbury is playing - no rush, big guy.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 5, 2007)

ChileMass said:


> JD Drew is the guy that needs to sit.  And Manny can take his time coming back the way Ellsbury is playing - no rush, big guy.



  I completely agree, he has been horrible, swings and misses on everything offspeed, i didnt like the signing then and i even hate it more now, a waste of space


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 6, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I completely agree, he has been horrible, swings and misses on everything offspeed, i didnt like the signing then and i even hate it more now, a waste of space




Don't worry.  Everything will be OK four years and $60 million from now....


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 6, 2007)

Good series for us.  Our Oct is looking brighter.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 6, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Don't worry.  Everything will be OK four years and $60 million from now....



 Thats the unfortunate truth.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 10, 2007)

Hard to miss a week of this thread...Yanks looking good for the playoffs now.

I am surprised they beat Seattle the last 2 games of that series; I was not surprised they lost 2 of 3 against Tampa. KC is KC.

FLG, I still don't see the Tigers as any more of a threat than Seattle. I just gave Seattle credit where they deserved none. Detroit is floundering.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 10, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Hard to miss a week of this thread...Yanks looking good for the playoffs now.
> 
> I am surprised they beat Seattle the last 2 games of that series; I was not surprised they lost 2 of 3 against Tampa. KC is KC.
> 
> FLG, I still don't see the Tigers as any more of a threat than Seattle. I just gave Seattle credit where they deserved none. Detroit is floundering.



 Well the Tiggers just mailed it in they are gonna sit Bonderman the rest of the year i guess he has a sore shoulder and needs surgery.. Well i guess the Yanks are in as the wild card i dont see how theycant make it now, only question is who will they play in the 1st round.. I gotta look into that on how that works since they cant play Boston does boston play the team with the next worse record which i guess would be Cleveland right now? I wont lie i dont wanna see the Angels in the 1st round and neither do you...


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 11, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well the Tiggers just mailed it in they are gonna sit Bonderman the rest of the year i guess he has a sore shoulder and needs surgery.. Well i guess the Yanks are in as the wild card i dont see how theycant make it now, only question is who will they play in the 1st round.. I gotta look into that on how that works since they cant play Boston does boston play the team with the next worse record which i guess would be Cleveland right now? I wont lie i dont wanna see the Angels in the 1st round and neither do you...




The general rule for the division series is that the wild card plays the division winner with the best record, unless the teams are from the same division.  In such case, the division winner with the best record plays the division winner with the worst record (I'm unsure of what the tie-breaker is if two division winners have the same record).

So, if the season were to end today, Boston would play Cleveland and New York would play L.A./Anaheim.  Therefore, let's go Cleveland!  Keep winning and beat out the Angels.  I dislike five-game series, and dislike five-game series with the Angels even more.  Five-game series are annoying, because, after a 162-game marathon of a season, the first round of the playoffs decides a winner based on who can first win three games.  A truer test would be a seven-game division series, IMO.


Current standings:

_Division leaders_:

Red Sox: 87-58 (.600)
Angels: 84-59 (.587)
Indians: 84-60 (.583)

_Wild card_:

Yankees: 81-62 (.566)
Tigers: 78-66 (.542)
Mariners: 75-67 (.528 )


----------



## JimG. (Sep 11, 2007)

Still too early to count on playoff matchups.

I'm just glad Tampa nicked Boston last night...now I don't feel so bad they took 2 of 3 from NY.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 11, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Still too early to count on playoff matchups.
> 
> I'm just glad Tampa nicked Boston last night...now I don't feel so bad they took 2 of 3 from NY.




Jim, I disagree.  I think, at this point, there's little question who will be the AL representatives in the playoffs this year.

There's also little question in my mind that your 2007 AL MVP, Alex Rodriguez, will have a huge playoffs.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 11, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Jim, I disagree.  I think, at this point, there's little question who will be the AL representatives in the playoffs this year.
> 
> There's also little question in my mind that your 2007 AL MVP, Alex Rodriguez, will have a huge playoffs.



Just discussing matchups, not who will be there.

You need a pot-stirrer avatar.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 11, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> I wouldn't call a 1-0 score an a$$ kicking more like disappointing ..



Who said anything about an ass kicking? I said Boston got "nicked". As in dinked or barely beaten.

When the Yanks lost to Tampa I kept screaming where's the offense?

Since you mention it, I think I'd be even more pissed if they had lost 1-0 as opposed to 9-2.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 11, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> OOPS ... sorry about that :roll: .. I should read more carefully and slower...



No worries.

I hope we don't have to play Anaheim in the playoffs.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 11, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> The Red Sox would have had a good series against them if it weren't for the blown saves .. Drew just makes me shake my head and I wish they would sit dice-kay down for a week or two and give him a much needed rest.



Dice-K has had a few rough outings. Major league hitters figure out pitchers after the second or third time through. But he definitely has the stuff to be successful anyway.

Rest might be the ticket. If they can afford to rest him.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 11, 2007)

We are back 5 with 24 to play.  We better keep our eye on the sux cause detroit has there eye on us.  What a finish it would be if we go by the sux and detroit does to.

I would feel horrible for sux fans


----------



## JimG. (Sep 11, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> We are back 5 with 24 to play.  We better keep our eye on the sux cause detroit has there eye on us.  What a finish it would be if we go by the sux and detroit does to.
> 
> I would feel horrible for sux fans



Yes, I can see you would be despondent.

That would be horrible for Sox fans, but they're used to it, at least in their past.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 11, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> We are back 5 with 24 to play.  We better keep our eye on the sux cause detroit has there eye on us.  What a finish it would be if we go by the sux and detroit does to.
> 
> I would feel horrible for sux fans



 ummm u have 19 left to play not 24, trust me time is not on your side considering the redsox only have 17 left.


----------



## MarkC (Sep 11, 2007)

JimG. said:


> No worries.
> 
> I hope we don't have to play Anaheim in the playoffs.



Finally something that we can all agree on.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 11, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> ummm u have 19 left to play not 24, trust me time is not on your side considering the redsox only have 17 left.




OK...I'll stop lurking this thread and break my silence.  I'm looking at the wildcard for the Yanks.  I gave up on the Sox a few weeks ago.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 11, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> OK...I'll stop lurking this thread and break my silence.  I'm looking at the wildcard for the Yanks.  I gave up on the Sox a few weeks ago.



 Finally a realist that tipped his cap, where are the others?


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 12, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> OK...I'll stop lurking this thread and break my silence.  I'm looking at the wildcard for the Yanks.  I gave up on the Sox a few weeks ago.




A little late to the party.  Could you have used you when the team was 14 back!


----------



## MarkC (Sep 12, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Finally a realist that tipped his cap, where are the others?



It's a bit early for the handshake.  Lets see what happens after this weekend.


----------



## tree_skier (Sep 12, 2007)

MarkC said:


> It's a bit early for the handshake.  Lets see what happens after this weekend.




Yes the tigers could be ahead of the yanks.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 12, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Yes the tigers could be ahead of the yanks.



Not happening.

What's up with Boston/Tampa? A 1-0 pitchers duel one night and then a 16-10 slugfest the next. 

Yanks guilty of that back and forth stuff too. Weird season.


----------



## 2knees (Sep 12, 2007)

i was thinking the same thing Jim.

then i remembered.  Kazmir vs. Schilling    
Sonnanstine vs. Wakefield.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 12, 2007)

2knees said:


> i was thinking the same thing Jim.
> 
> then i remembered.  Kazmir vs. Schilling
> Sonnanstine vs. Wakefield.



I guess Wakefield's knuckler wasn't moving well.


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 12, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> ummm u have 19 left to play not 24, trust me time is not on your side considering the redsox only have 17 left.



I tend to agree.  Stranger things have happened and we are talking about the Sux.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 12, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Yes the tigers could be ahead of the yanks.





JimG. said:


> Not happening.



:uzi:

NICE!  Now THAT'S the kind of confidence I've been looking for from you, Jim!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 12, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I guess Wakefield's knuckler wasn't moving well.




Or his back is hurting him....

* Dice-K = tired (boo hoo)?
* Wakefield = back problems?
* Schilling = Schilling?

I tell you, outside of Beckett, things aren't looking so hot for RSN!!

Yes, I know, the Yanks rotation is suspect, but I'm not making the argument for anyone.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 12, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> :uzi:
> 
> NICE!  Now THAT'S the kind of confidence I've been looking for from you, Jim!



I'm conservative...I've said from the beginning I don't take baseball too seriously until August and now it's the end.

Yanks are there; so is Boston.

Hope they play in the ALCS...it's the way it's supposed to be.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 12, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I'm conservative...



But, then, which pot are you stirring exactly?

;-)


----------



## JimG. (Sep 12, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> But, then, which pot are you stirring exactly?
> 
> ;-)



Interesting question...

I'm in the pinstripes' camp, so I must be stirring the red pot.

So, I guess I need some red paint. 

Andyzee thought I was stirring paint when he saw the avatar.


----------



## Brettski (Sep 12, 2007)

Are the yank-me's gonna catch the saux?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 12, 2007)

Brettski said:


> Are the yank-me's gonna catch the saux?



  Im gonna say No, but it would be alot of fun if they got together and played 7 games again.


----------



## 2knees (Sep 12, 2007)

wow.  big papi comes through big time.  keep the lead at 5 and the yanks have to deal with Burnett tomorrow.  He's been white hot since coming off the dl.


----------



## 2knees (Sep 12, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Or his back is hurting him....
> 
> * Dice-K = tired (boo hoo)?
> * Wakefield = back problems?
> ...



actually, schilling has been pretty damn good since he came back.  He's different obviously in regards to velocity and k's but has been holding his own.  Lots of 2 seamers, cutters and curveballs.  Matsuzaka is another story.  

All in all, you're right though.  Long term playoff runs arent usually had by teams relying on basically 1 and 1/2 starters.  I say 1/2 cause i'm not sold on schilling completely.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 13, 2007)

If Schilling had any run support he would have 3 more wins  in the last month.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 14, 2007)

Hey, did I tell you guys my new nickname for Daiskuke Matsuzaka?

Craps-K.

Get it?  You play craps with dice....Dice-K.....Craps-K!

Plus, the $100 million man has regressed to a league average pitcher (103+ era), so it's fitting!!  And, anyway, the nickname "Dice-K" was always kind of lame in my book.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 14, 2007)

Jim G what do you think of the series this weekend, i feel the redsox will take 2/3 especially after that embarrasing sweep 2 weeks ago, its a possibility that the yanks take 2/3 also but i dont see any sweeps for either team this time.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 14, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Jim G what do you think of the series this weekend, i feel the redsox will take 2/3 especially after that embarrasing sweep 2 weeks ago, its a possibility that the yanks take 2/3 also but i dont see any sweeps for either team this time.



Yanks are sweeping you guys 3-0.

Any more silly questions?


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 15, 2007)

Wow...that game left me exhausted.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 16, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Wow...that game left me exhausted.



 You always get your moneys worth when the redsox and yanks play.. Im gonna have go to picture and picture tonite on the TV for the Sox and Pats.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 16, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Im gonna have go to picture and picture tonite on the TV for the Sox and Pats.



<insert videogate joke here>


----------



## Paul (Sep 16, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yanks are sweeping you guys 3-0.
> 
> Any more silly questions?



Nope, any more lousy predictions?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 16, 2007)

Well the Sox got 1 game, basically put the division away now.. That game last night even though Ortiz didnt come thru was how baseball should be.. Bottom of the ninth 2 outs redsox down by one run, bases loaded and you have the best reliever ever against the best clutch hitter for the last 5yrs, great drama.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 17, 2007)

Paul said:


> Nope, any more lousy predictions?



Never said it was a prediction. It was an answer to the question.

The correct answer was Yanks win series 2-1.

Right?


----------



## JimG. (Sep 17, 2007)

Derek Jeter is hitting .441 with runners in scoring position with 2 outs. Best mark for that key stat in baseball.

The guy is a winner.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 17, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Derek Jeter is hitting .441 with runners in scoring position with 2 outs. Best mark for that key stat in baseball.
> 
> The guy is a winner.





Yeah, but can he smile like this guy?


----------



## Paul (Sep 17, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Never said it was a prediction. It was an answer to the question.
> 
> The correct answer was Yanks win series 2-1.
> 
> Right?



The correct answer is that the Sox still have a 4 1/2 game lead. The magic number is 9


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 17, 2007)

Paul said:


> The correct answer is that the Sox still have a 4 1/2 game lead. The magic number is 9




Numbers, numbers, numbers.  Whatever.  Oftentimes, baseball is defined by a moment.  I'll remember Jeter's HR off of marker man a lot longer than who won 2007's WC and AL east division crown.

Therefore, the correct answer is this:


----------



## JimG. (Sep 17, 2007)

Paul said:


> The correct answer is that the Sox still have a 4 1/2 game lead. The magic number is 9



The division is yours. Has been since the middle of August.

I'm happier winning 6 of the last 7 Bosox matchups...good practice for the playoffs.


----------



## Paul (Sep 17, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The division is yours. Has been since the middle of August.
> 
> I'm happier winning 6 of the last 7 Bosox matchups...good practice for the playoffs.



Yeah, just hope we get Cleveland, and you get LA, Anaheim, California, Earth, Universe etc... I have a bad feeling if there's a Bos/NY ALCS...


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 17, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The division is yours. Has been since the middle of August.
> 
> I'm happier winning 6 of the last 7 Bosox matchups...good practice for the playoffs.



  And by not winning the division your missing out on this for the 1st time ever.  Trust me the Redsox are taking the 8 day series.

the AL regular-season champion will be given the choice of whether to play Division Series A, in which the if-necessary five games are scheduled to be played in seven days beginning on Thurs, Oct. 4; or in Division Series B, in which the five games are scheduled to be played in eight days. 

The seven-day series features two sets of back-to-back games, with off-days for travel scheduled between Games 2 and 3 and between Games 4 and 5. The eight-day series features only one set of back-to-back games (Games 3 and 4), with off-days scheduled between Games 1 and 2, another between Games 2 and 3, and still another between Games 4 and 5.


----------



## 2knees (Sep 17, 2007)

yankee fans sound alot like us red sox fans in years past.  

"Yeah, you may have a better record but we beat you when it didnt matter."


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 17, 2007)

2knees said:


> yankee fans sound alot like us red sox fans in years past.



Was this in between 1918 and 2004?


----------



## 2knees (Sep 17, 2007)

lol, yup that sound about right.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 18, 2007)

2knees said:


> yankee fans sound alot like us red sox fans in years past.
> 
> "Yeah, you may have a better record but we beat you when it didnt matter."




3 1/2 games and closing.  Jeter's HR looms large....Never say never!  

Your smug attitude reminds me of a lot of Yankees fans.  But, my never-ending hope and lack of whining should not remind anyone of Red Sox fans....;-)


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 18, 2007)

2knees said:


> yankee fans sound alot like us red sox fans in years past.
> 
> "Yeah, you may have a better record but we beat you when it didnt matter."




Ouch.  You really know how to insult a Yankee fan.


----------



## 2knees (Sep 18, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Ouch.  You really know how to insult a Yankee fan.



i'm not trying to insult anyone.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 18, 2007)

Let's give the Sox fans their due...no doubt the division is theirs. A done deal.

3 1/2 is only a number at this point. Even if it is the closest the Yanks have been since May 4.

No way the Sox could blow it now.

No way.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Let's give the Sox fans their due...no doubt the division is theirs. A done deal.
> 
> 3 1/2 is only a number at this point. Even if it is the closest the Yanks have been since May 4.
> 
> ...





What biting sarcasm.  Jim, you've stirred the pot yet again!  :beer:


----------



## 2knees (Sep 18, 2007)

well you're probably gonna be overflowing with confidence after tonight.  It'll take a miracle not to have the lead cut to 2 1/2.

Burnett vs. Lester

Leicester (who?) vs. Mussina.  Even if the moose blows, how many runs are the yankees gonna put up against that hack.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 18, 2007)

2knees said:


> well you're probably gonna be overflowing with confidence after tonight.  It'll take a miracle not to have the lead cut to 2 1/2.
> 
> Burnett vs. Lester
> 
> Leicester (who?) vs. Mussina.  Even if the moose blows, how many runs are the yankees gonna put up against that hack.



Nice reverse psychology comeback Pat!

I think I would enjoy watching a few Yanks/Bosox games with you guys.


----------



## SkiDog (Sep 18, 2007)

and its now 3.5 games....hmmmmmmm hear those footsteps BAAAASTAN?

M


----------



## 2knees (Sep 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Nice reverse psychology comeback Pat!
> 
> I think I would enjoy watching a few Yanks/Bosox games with you guys.




I wish it was reverse psychology but if i were a betting man, i'd lay down some serious coin on the blue jays tonight.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok im just gonna say this and get this off my chest, Eric GagME comes in the 8th gets 2 outs then loads up the bases and gives up 3runs and blows yet another game for the Sox i think the 4th he has blown since hes been here and hes only been in about 8 games.  This guy just doesnt fit in here and sucks my ass, him and JD Drew, they both need to go.  The yankees meanwhile are beating the hell out of these non contenders and the redsox and Mets both are blowing ass, they are both horrible front runners and if the redsox lose this division they deserve too, they are making me sick and pissing me off, its a good thing i dont work at the post office.


----------



## 2knees (Sep 18, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> A prophet is among us. Is it just me but since Gagne has join the bull pen its been all downhill.. I am beginning to believe he is really an Yankee's secret agent  or a  WITCH and you know what we do to witches ....



well i may have predicted a jays win but that wasnt what i had in mind.

I need to vent for 10 minutes.  i apologize in advance for the following post.

1st)  Why francona chose to stay with gagne after he issued the walk that loaded the bases is odd.  Why he left him in, after walking in the tying run,  to give up that rocket of a double is almost incomprehensible.  

2nd)   Thank goodness for the wildcard.  But honestly, the sox have no Manny or Youkilis and a very hurt Coco but additionally we have J.D. Drew and Eric Gagne.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 19, 2007)

All you Sox fans shouldn't be so hard on Gagne.  Didn't you hear how he tried to knock Mariano out of the game the other day??  Must have gotten some tips from Varitek....

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyside185380110sep18,0,875093.story


----------



## JimG. (Sep 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Ok im just gonna say this and get this off my chest, Eric GagME comes in the 8th gets 2 outs then loads up the bases and gives up 3runs and blows yet another game for the Sox i think the 4th he has blown since hes been here and hes only been in about 8 games.  This guy just doesnt fit in here and sucks my ass, him and JD Drew, they both need to go.  The yankees meanwhile are beating the hell out of these non contenders and the redsox and Mets both are blowing ass, they are both horrible front runners and if the redsox lose this division they deserve too, they are making me sick and pissing me off, its a good thing i dont work at the post office.



Spoken like a veteran Sox fan.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 19, 2007)

GAGne does it again. That guy has ruined the bullpen chemistry.

Really, all that matters is that both the Sox and Yanks make it to the playoffs.

I don't care if the Yanks are the wildcard, as long as they don't have to play the Angels in the first round.

But I'd sure love to see the Yanks pull out the division title.

2 behind in the loss column.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 19, 2007)

It's still mathematically possible for the yanks to win he division and the Sox to be knocked out of the wildcard.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 19, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> It's still mathematically possible for the yanks to win he division and the Sox to be knocked out of the wildcard.



I don't want to see that...Yanks/Sox playoff baseball is the best.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I don't want to see that...Yanks/Sox playoff baseball is the best.




I don't know about that.  I doubt many Sox fans would weep if the Yankees didn't qualify.

And last year's Sox-less playoffs were pretty nice, especially after the five-game massacre in August.

That being said (as a Yankees fan, it needed to be said), I like Red Sox-Yankees playoffs.  I doubt anything can compare to the 2003-2004 ALCS's.  Amazing stuff.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 19, 2007)

Jim the redsox are going to lose the division on purpose that way the Angels will still play the Yanks in the 1st round because cleveland is about to overtake them, i knew there was a purpose to this, they are too good to choke away this division right?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 19, 2007)

Since the yanks and sox are going to make the playoffs here is your chance to buy playoff tickets at the normal face value thru each website, their is a drawing and if picked you get your chance at 2 tickets, the yanks tickets are on this website

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/...tab3&affiliateID=2007hp_tixcomponent_nyy_tab3

and the sox are here

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/bos/ticketing/y2007/pstixopp_form.jsp


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 19, 2007)

and if the Mets make it

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/tic...tab2&affiliateID=2007hp_tixcomponent_nym_tab2


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> and if the Mets make it
> 
> http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/nym/tic...tab2&affiliateID=2007hp_tixcomponent_nym_tab2




"if"

LOL.

Poor Mets fans.  What a confusing team.


----------



## SkiDog (Sep 19, 2007)

WOW...down to 2.5 games.....

Poor Boston..

M


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 19, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> "if"
> 
> LOL.
> 
> Poor Mets fans.  What a confusing team.



 Well its just the truth, the redsox have a safety net if they blow the division, the mets dont.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 19, 2007)

Can you seriously believe this shit, i refuse to post in this forum again until the AL East is decided.


----------



## rob56789 (Sep 19, 2007)

1.5 games now this is shaping up to be a great ending to the season.  Moe got me a little scared at the end there they shouldve just let joba finish the game.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Yankees stink right now...but it's May.
> 
> How many times do Yankees fans have to listen to the champions of April/May beating their chests?
> 
> Talk to me in September. Especially you Bosox fans.




Just thought I'd throw this post from May out there.  Like I've said, I've purposely stayed out of this thread until recently because I blew my top last fall in a similar thread....but I've lurked the entire summer.  It's interesting to reread everyone's comments and predictions now.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 19, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I don't want to see that...Yanks/Sox playoff baseball is the best.




I agree, but I would find it hard not to chuckle silently to myself.




rob56789 said:


> 1.5 games now this is shaping up to be a great ending to the season. Moe got me a little scared at the end there they shouldve just let joba finish the game.



He's been scaring me a lot lately. I'm having a tough time coming to terms with the fact that he's past his prime. There will never be another closer like him.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 20, 2007)

1.5.....


----------



## rob56789 (Sep 20, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> He's been scaring me a lot lately. I'm having a tough time coming to terms with the fact that he's past his prime. There will never be another closer like him.



Yeah when hes on theres no one i'd rather have closing for us but hes been a little shaky lately, still getting the job done but i would rather not be so nervous when hes pitching


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 20, 2007)

So, the Yankees trailed Red Sox by 14 1/2 games after games of May 29, and now it's 1 1/2.  When the team pulls it off and wins the division, it'll be a big deal.  But, just how big of a deal?

How about the second greatest comeback ever??  Even eclipsing (gulp) the Red Sox's  famous 1978 collapse....


Year      Team                     Deficit 

1914      Braves                 15 games 
1978      Yankees     14 games 
1951      Giants      13 games 
1995      Mariners              13 games 
1911      A's             12 games 
1930      Cardinals            12 games 
1973      Mets                  12 games


----------



## tjf67 (Sep 20, 2007)

More important to me is that we have a 5.5 game lead in the wild card race.  I would like to go by Boston to shut there annoying fans up but Its more importnat to me to keep winning games and make the playoffs.
GO YANKS


----------



## SkiDog (Sep 20, 2007)

GO YANKS....

I think they'll win the division....the WANT IT...

Sorry BOSTON..

M


----------



## JimG. (Sep 20, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Just thought I'd throw this post from May out there.  Like I've said, I've purposely stayed out of this thread until recently because I blew my top last fall in a similar thread....but I've lurked the entire summer.  It's interesting to reread everyone's comments and predictions now.



Beat me to it!

And I've got one for when the Yanks pass the Bosox and win the division.

GAGne fever has infected their pen...Papelbon gave up a grand slammer that ended any comeback hopes last night.

But now the Yanks have to play Toronto...no more back and forth winning 5 and then losing 4. They have to win out if they want the division.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Sep 22, 2007)

Last night was huge for Boston.  Guess it's not a total breakdown.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 26, 2007)

Division-Boston.
Wildcard-Yankees.

As of now, that would mean NY plays Cleveland.

Go Boston, beat the Angels!


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 26, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Division-Boston.
> Wildcard-Yankees.
> 
> As of now, that would mean NY plays Cleveland.
> ...



 See i find this funny, the big bad Yankee fans know they cant beat the Angels and are actually rooting for the RedSox.  If you are the 26time world champs you should have wanted to play the Angels in the 1st Round and then beat the RedSox thats the way to do it.See the 2004 RedSox for how to do that.    I never thought id see the day yankee fans are intimidated by a series, but for some reason you are when it comes to the Angels who for whatever reason the Redsox can beat.  You owned Cleveland during the regular season and kept beating down the redsox for the last month, guess theres no excuse for you not to win it all this year, you got the easy road or at least make it sound like you do.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 27, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> See i find this funny, the big bad Yankee fans know they cant beat the Angels and are actually rooting for the RedSox.  If you are the 26time world champs you should have wanted to play the Angels in the 1st Round and then beat the RedSox thats the way to do it.See the 2004 RedSox for how to do that.    I never thought id see the day yankee fans are intimidated by a series, but for some reason you are when it comes to the Angels who for whatever reason the Redsox can beat.  You owned Cleveland during the regular season and kept beating down the redsox for the last month, guess theres no excuse for you not to win it all this year, you got the easy road or at least make it sound like you do.




This lack of gratitude is simply atrocious!  Jim throws the Sox fans a bone and they can't help but whine about it.  Typical.  And this "see the 2004 Red Sox" is getting old fast.  No one cares.  That team is long gone.  And the Angels team is different now, too.  Get over it.

:flag:

So, to talk about 2007.  The Indians probably have the best starting pitching staff for the playoffs.  Their top two guys (Sabathia and Caromona) are better than anyone else's top 2 guys, and, with the extended playoff format this year, they'll be able to pitch them more often.  

Am I worried?  No.  Because this year will see the Yanks bring home championship number 27.  And then A-Rod will get one gazillion dollars and everything will be right with the world.  

And the 2004 ALCS will fade into distant memory.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 27, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> This lack of gratitude is simply atrocious!  Jim throws the Sox fans a bone and they can't help but whine about it.  Typical.  And this "see the 2004 Red Sox" is getting old fast.  No one cares.  That team is long gone.  And the Angels team is different now, too.  Get over it.
> 
> :flag:
> 
> ...



  How is that team a distant memory?  There are more players still on the Sox roster this year than the Yankees have from their last world series Championship.. Im giving Jim a hard time, i really dont wanna play the Angels either but you gotta do what you gotta do.. Hey the Yanks unlike the Mets actually care about making the playoffs, and if you remember the papers from May they were dead, fire torre, Bobby Abreu is a piece of garbage , Arod is overpaid, it was nice to seee MR Steinbrenner at the game last night, the guy is in serious health and showed up to see his boys clinch , maybe the last time he will see it depending on his health, that showed me it means something to him and them, torre crying, the redsox are not even at that point yet, 13yrs in a row is alot of postseasons, and i give the Yanks alot of credit for getting there yet again, payroll or not which as a sox fan i can no longer complain about, it takes a cool headed coach to keep all those Egos in check and the yanks will miss Mr Torre just as much as Mariano when he leaves.  Regardless of who wins a Yanks/Sox 7 game series is in order again, its the best rivalry in sports, always will be PERIOD.....


----------



## bruno (Sep 27, 2007)

yanks over phillies in the series 4-0.:beer::dunce:


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 27, 2007)

bruno said:


> yanks over phillies in the series 4-0.:beer::dunce:




LOL.  Works for me!

With a name like "bruno", no way was that post going to be pro-Red Sox.  lol.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 27, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> LOL.  Works for me!
> 
> With a name like "bruno", no way was that post going to be pro-Red Sox.  lol.



OMG the ultimate slap in the face to Mets Fans everywhere.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 28, 2007)

I can't resist....

This guy is an ABSOLUTE JOKE.  LOL.


----------



## JimG. (Sep 28, 2007)

I love this thread.

All I really care about is that the ALCS is NY/Boston.

Don't really care how we get there.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 28, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> I can't resist....
> 
> This guy is an ABSOLUTE JOKE.  LOL.



 Did you even read the article?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 28, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I love this thread.
> 
> All I really care about is that the ALCS is NY/Boston.
> 
> Don't really care how we get there.



 We can only hope, hmmm Sabathia is lifetime 1-7 vs the NYY with a 7,1 ERA, thats not good lol.. Although i remember every yankee fan saying ohhhh good the Tigers, ohhh good its Kenny Rogers in game 3 its in the bag.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Sep 28, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Did you even read the article?




Yes, I did.  Your point is?

My point was that his histrionics are absurd.  Look at him in that picture.  Is he squeezeing something out of his rear end or is he trying to be "intimidating"?  

He makes me laugh.  He's good, but he makes me laugh.


----------



## tree_skier (Sep 28, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Yes, I did.  Your point is?
> 
> My point was that his histrionics are absurd.  Look at him in that picture.  Is he squeezeing something out of his rear end or is he trying to be "intimidating"?
> 
> He makes me laugh.  He's good, but he makes me laugh.



My thoughts about Petite are pretty much the same, is he hiding behind his glove and cap or trying to be intimidating?


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Sep 28, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> My thoughts about Petite are pretty much the same, is he hiding behind his glove and cap or trying to be intimidating?



Agreed.  different strokes for different folks


----------



## JimG. (Oct 1, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> My thoughts about Petite are pretty much the same, is he hiding behind his glove and cap or trying to be intimidating?



Heh...I think he learned that dumb "peek over the glove/glare angrily" thing from Clemens.

I agree it really does not work for him visually.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 1, 2007)

So Jim whats your prediction for this series? I say yanks in 4, sox in 5..


----------



## JimG. (Oct 1, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> So Jim whats your prediction for this series? I say yanks in 4, sox in 5..



The Yanks are what they are...a bunch of talented players who manage to make things difficult for themselves. As well as they played at the end of the season, they are just as able to play like they did in the beginning.

Indians are good...Yanks in 5. Just barely.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Oct 1, 2007)

We should really start an AL playoff thread, at this point.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 2, 2007)

JimG. said:


> The Yanks are what they are...a bunch of talented players who manage to make things difficult for themselves. As well as they played at the end of the season, they are just as able to play like they did in the beginning.
> 
> Indians are good...Yanks in 5. Just barely.




Jim, sorry, but it seems like you didn't pay attention to the team after May 15....From about that time on they were the best team in baseball.

They're a great mix of veterans and youth that really came together as a team.  No way could they have otherwise dug themselves out of that hole.  

My predictions for the ALDS:

Yanks in 4.
Angels in 4.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 2, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> We should really start an AL playoff thread, at this point.




Meh.  I like that this thread includes the regular season.  I get extra enjoyment from anticipating this year's playoffs by thinking of where the Yanks came from to get here.  Can't have one without the other.

It makes sense, though, to start a new thread for the Sox, since they almost blew their seemingly insurmountable lead.  That team and its fans should _want _to think that the playoffs gives their team a new lease on life.  :smile:


----------



## skibum1321 (Oct 2, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> It makes sense, though, to start a new thread for the Sox, since they almost blew their seemingly insurmountable lead.  That team and its fans should _want _to think that the playoffs gives their team a new lease on life.  :smile:



A new lease on life? Last time I checked they finished with the best record in baseball. There are ups and downs in every season - no one expected that the Sox would play .700 baseball all season. And no one expected that the Yankees would suck all season long.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 4, 2007)

Well the gritty gutty yankees got smoked tonite 12-3, wow!  You wanted the Tribe and not the Angels and now you have a series on your hands for sure. Sometimes as you learned last year when you wished for the Tigers it doesnt always work out the way you had it planned.   And as usual Andy will have to rescue them in a big spot.


----------



## tjf67 (Oct 5, 2007)

ooof  f'nking Yankees.  Let getter into gear.  I am nervous.

The stud had better be studly tongight.


Wang will get another chance.  
A-rod is going to have a big series as well.


What the hell is with TBS.  There coverage sucks.


----------



## Paul (Oct 5, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> ooof  f'nking Yankees.  Let getter into gear.  I am nervous.
> 
> The stud had better be studly tongight.
> 
> ...



The one thing that Sox, Yanks, and fans of all teams can agree on...

TBS blows donkey balls.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 5, 2007)

A good loss.

Last few playoff series they won the first game they went on to lose the series. Better to start out with the road loss.

Cleveland on the other hand needed that win with their ace on the mound.


----------



## tree_skier (Oct 5, 2007)

JimG. said:


> A good loss.
> 
> Last few playoff series they won the first game they went on to lose the series. Better to start out with the road loss.
> 
> Cleveland on the other hand needed that win with their ace on the mound.




Yup always good to start a series off with a loss.  Now all they need is 2 more of those good losses.


----------



## tree_skier (Oct 6, 2007)

It's another "good" loss for the new york lads.  Bringing on the fat old man to try and save the season.  Oh and isn't a-rod 0 for October again.


If you weren't paying attention the Sox are 2-0 with Manny breaking the 3-3 deadlock in the bottom of the ninth with 2 outs with a three run shot over everything.


----------



## Mike P. (Oct 6, 2007)

That would be the fat $28m man.  If they  needed their moneys worth out of him it's now.  With the Fat mans portly sister warming up her vocal chords.

Manny doesn't talk to the press much but he's a sharp dresser when he does....


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 6, 2007)

Well i had a great time at Fenway last night and stayed til the very end , i found it amusing how the fans are obsessed with the Yankees and what they are doing, this pic made me laugh that i took.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 6, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> It's another "good" loss for the new york lads.  Bringing on the fat old man to try and save the season.  Oh and isn't a-rod 0 for October again.
> 
> 
> If you weren't paying attention the Sox are 2-0 with Manny breaking the 3-3 deadlock in the bottom of the ninth with 2 outs with a three run shot over everything.



 That ball was an absolute rocket, i had a side view of it sitting in the bleachers even though it cleared everything seeing it on TV did not do it justice, that ball maybe went 10feet over the front of the wall but about 200 feet past it onto the street.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 8, 2007)

Ok the Fat man well hes done but at least the Yanks showed some guts for themselves and their manager.. As a sox fan i hope this goes 5games and you beat the hell out of eachother, my pitching staff by then will be rested and assembled while both Cle and Ny will be tired and not set up correctly for a long series.


----------



## Mike P. (Oct 8, 2007)

$28,000,000.00 (even pro-rated that's a lot of money for 45 year old legs)  Maybe he'll give some to Phil Hughes


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 8, 2007)

Mods please lock this thread the Yankees season is over!  Seriously though the yankees were just against it all year with the start they had they in my opinion just used up too much energy to get to where they were instead of coasting in Sept like they usually do and that was it plain and simple. 3rd straight 1st round defeat, Torre, Arod, possibly out, who knows whats gonna happen.  The yankees have had a great run, and i wouldnt be shocked to see them in the playoffs again next year but from the beginning of the year i and most of you knew this Yankee team just  didnt have it.  The Indians have a better 1,2 punch than the redsox do for starting pitching and have a bullpen to match them, i think this series will go 6, but probably 7.


----------



## Mildcat (Oct 9, 2007)

As a Sox fan I only get to see about 20 Yankees games per year but I think it would be a shame to see Joe Torre fired. He's a class act and a sure Hall of Famer. He's not the one that  over pays for players on the downside of their careers. It seems to me like he has the respect of all of his players. 

Just curious what the Yankees fans think about Torre.


----------



## Mildcat (Oct 9, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Mods please lock this thread the Yankees season is over!  Seriously though the yankees were just against it all year with the start they had they in my opinion just used up too much energy to get to where they were instead of coasting in Sept like they usually do and that was it plain and simple. 3rd straight 1st round defeat, Torre, Arod, possibly out, who knows whats gonna happen.  The yankees have had a great run, and i wouldnt be shocked to see them in the playoffs again next year but from the beginning of the year i and most of you knew this Yankee team just  didnt have it.  The Indians have a better 1,2 punch than the redsox do for starting pitching and have a bullpen to match them, i think this series will go 6, but probably 7.



I agree that the Indians have a better 1,2 but I don't think their bullpen is even close to the Sox.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 9, 2007)

Mildcat said:


> I agree that the Indians have a better 1,2 but I don't think their bullpen is even close to the Sox.



 Well maybe not in the 8th and 9th innings but they have a good bullpen especially one that can get you thru innings 6-8.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 9, 2007)

Mildcat said:


> As a Sox fan I only get to see about 20 Yankees games per year but I think it would be a shame to see Joe Torre fired. He's a class act and a sure Hall of Famer. He's not the one that  over pays for players on the downside of their careers. It seems to me like he has the respect of all of his players.
> 
> Just curious what the Yankees fans think about Torre.



 Joe Torre had nothing to do with this loss, you can blame this on mr Wang and yankee management for what they are saying on the FAN they pressured Torre into starting Wang on 3days rest when Torre wanted to start Mussina from the beginning.


----------



## skibum1321 (Oct 9, 2007)

Torre hasn't won anything in a while. I think it's time for a change in NY. 

It's funny how all the Yankee fans suddenly disappear when the Yankees start losing (or in this case are done for the year). MudPuddle seemed so cocky a week ago and now he's nowhere to be found.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 9, 2007)

I'm here...representing.

I don't run when the jig is up, so go ahead and get your last licks in.

I knew the cause was lost on Friday when they WASTED another Pettitte gem (had nothing, shut them out for 6+ innings). A-slob was atrocious in that game. It should have been a Yank blowout but they lost.

And I was right. The game 3 win didn't fool me. Yesterday they were never in it.

It was equally galling to watch that crap and then switch to the football game just in time to see the Cowgirls win against all odds and their own QB who absolutely tried to give the game to Buffalo.

Blech!

Go NL!


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 9, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I'm here...representing.
> 
> I don't run when the jig is up, so go ahead and get your last licks in.
> 
> ...



  Jim ill tell ya straight out, after seeing the rockies sweep NY and take 2/3 in Fenway i dont wanna see them, they are so young and so not up to date on the history of the 2 clubs they dont get nervous or scared they just go out and play and that scares me slightly.  Being  a G-men fan like you that must have made u sick to your stomach last night.  Dont worry though Jim the Pats got your back next week.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 9, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> This lack of gratitude is simply atrocious!  Jim throws the Sox fans a bone and they can't help but whine about it.  Typical.  And this "see the 2004 Red Sox" is getting old fast.  No one cares.  That team is long gone.  And the Angels team is different now, too.  Get over it.
> 
> :flag:
> 
> ...



 Where did this cocky overconfident Yankee fan go? I havent seen him post in awhile on this thread!


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 10, 2007)

Ok someone told me this and i found it amusing.. What does the NY stand for on both the Mets and Yankees hats??

 Next Year.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 10, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Where did this cocky overconfident Yankee fan go? I havent seen him post in awhile on this thread!




Hello!  

Well, that sucked!

It was more painful to lose this year than last, to be honest.  I really liked this team.  Yes, it was imperfect, flawed and had many question marks, but the mix of youth and veterans was an exciting one (one that produced by far the best record in baseball from May 30 to the end of the year).  A-Rod had a monster year (say what you will, but he was not the reason the team lost - Wang was horrible, Jeter had his worst postseason ever, and Matsui and Posada didn't help much, either).  The young pitchers were fun (Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, some guy named Joba - maybe you've heard of him?).  Posada's great offensive year (one of the best for a catcher of his age ever).  Kei Igawa (LOL).  Petitte being the man, once again, in the playoffs.  The bounce back from 21-29 was very exciting to watch, so, to see the team fall apart this postseason in a VERY winable series was tough.  

That midges thing in Game 2 was absurd, and MLB should have halted the game.  Anyway, why Torre and Guidry didn't at least take a million trips to the mound to calm Joba down, I'll never know.  Otherwise, tough to fault anything.  I would have gone with Wang in Game 4....You have to go with the "ace" (and Wang, for better or worse, was the team's ace), and the team should have KILLED Byrd.  How to start Moose when another old guy, Clemens, fell apart the night before?  And Wang is decidedly better in NY than on the road.

Wasn't meant to be.

It's painful to say, but the Sox have no excuse not to win it all now that the best team is out of the playoffs (I'm not talking about the Cubs, Phillies or Angels, mind you).  Enjoy the pressure, Sox fans.  No one will feel sorry for you if you lose.


----------



## tree_skier (Oct 10, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Hello!
> 
> 
> It's painful to say, but the Sox have no excuse not to win it all now that the best team is out of the playoffs (I'm not talking about the Cubs, Phillies or Angels, mind you).  Enjoy the pressure, Sox fans.  No one will feel sorry for you if you lose.



Well you fans of Next Year certainly are a little delusional.  The best team in baseball out of the playoffs?????  Lets see in the AL the number 1 and 2 seeds are still in and they also tied for the best record in baseball and in the NL you have the team with the best record vs a team that is 17-1 since sept 15 and had the second best record.  So you can see how your statement is a little confusing.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 10, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Hello!
> 
> Well, that sucked!
> 
> ...




 No reason to stop a game because of bugs, these are not little kids out there they are grown men deal with it, its not like they are playing in the snow and mud like men from the gridiron.  And as far as the bugs and Joba, ummm last time i checked the guy batting 60 feet away had bugs all over him too, its not like it was unfair and all the bugs were just on the mound.  And cmon the yankees were not the best team in the postseason they were just the best team record wise since may 30th that barely until the last 2 weeks made it into the postseason.. Its over for them, in a big way, id like to see Mo and Posada go to Queens that would be great.. They said they wouldnt persue arod if he opts out, BS they will come calling in January and throw money at him, trust me they will go back on their word on that one, and with Mo telling him they wont negotiate til now when he wanted to during the year, not a good way to treat the best closer ever in baseball, they are gonna lose some valuable parts including the manager who kept all the egos down.  The yankees probably will make the playoffs again next year, but with no chemistry and too many new faces it will probably end up just like this year.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 10, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> No reason to stop a game because of bugs, these are not little kids out there they are grown men deal with it, its not like they are playing in the snow and mud like men from the gridiron.  And as far as the bugs and Joba, ummm last time i checked the guy batting 60 feet away had bugs all over him too, its not like it was unfair and all the bugs were just on the mound.  And cmon the yankees were not the best team in the postseason they were just the best team record wise since may 30th that barely until the last 2 weeks made it into the postseason.. Its over for them, in a big way, id like to see Mo and Posada go to Queens that would be great.. They said they wouldnt persue arod if he opts out, BS they will come calling in January and throw money at him, trust me they will go back on their word on that one, and with Mo telling him they wont negotiate til now when he wanted to during the year, not a good way to treat the best closer ever in baseball, they are gonna lose some valuable parts including the manager who kept all the egos down.  The yankees probably will make the playoffs again next year, but with no chemistry and too many new faces it will probably end up just like this year.




That's a lot of negativity!  And typical of Red Sox Nation.  

I am hopeful for next year.  I think the following deals concerning the existing roster will get made, despite all the hype concerning players going elsewhere (in order of priority):


A-Rod gets extended for an additional 7 years, $210,000,013 (for the extra 7 years) 
Mo for 2 years, $24 million
Posada for 2 years, $26 million 
Petitte exercises his player option, $16 million (who could resist being the hero for that kind of cash) or he negotiates a new deal for 2 years, $28 million
Yankees exercise option on Abreu, $16 million (vs. $2 million buy out)

Jeter, A-Rod, Posada and Mo will definitely be around for the new stadium, and they will help hoist the Yankees' 27th World Championship banner from the 2008 season!



Also, I hope Girardi is brought in to shake things up and to continue the youth movement.  Torre was a controversial call in 96, so I think there's history for that.  I'm less excited for Donnie or La Russa, but they're probably more likely.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 10, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> That's a lot of negativity!  And typical of Red Sox Nation.
> 
> I am hopeful for next year.  I think the following deals concerning the existing roster will get made, despite all the hype concerning players going elsewhere (in order of priority):
> 
> ...



  I wasnt being negative, im just saying.  LaRussa forget it, with his 2 DWI problems last year, one being asleep at the wheel in the intersection during spring training he will be eaten alive by the Press here in NY, St Louis may be  a good baseball town but they let him get away with everything, he will; hate it here.  Torre a contorversial call ya id think so the Post said Say it aint so Joe on the backpage the day Torre got hired.  I dont know who the Yanks would bring in, mattingly is not ready, Girardi i guess.. What about Buck Showalter?  Hell just bring Lou back.


----------



## tree_skier (Oct 10, 2007)

The curse of Mattingly,  The yankees will never win the world series as long as he is on the bench.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 10, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> The curse of Mattingly,  The yankees will never win the world series as long as he is on the bench.



lol thats good stuff right there..  Funny though he is still the most beloved Yankee even ahead of Torre and Jeter in my opinion


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 11, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> The curse of Mattingly,  The yankees will never win the world series as long as he is on the bench.




I think if you said "the curse of Giambi" you might be closer to the truth.

Management's willingness to turn a blind eye to his obvious doping, and to reward such a one-dimensional player with such a ridiculous contract in the interest of "win at any cost", has temporarily cursed the world's greatest sports franchise.

The only thing standing between World Championship No. 27 and the Yankees next year is Giambi's final year with the club.


----------



## jack97 (Oct 11, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> A-Rod gets extended for an additional 7 years, $210,000,013 (for the extra 7 years)
> Mo for 2 years, $24 million
> Posada for 2 years, $26 million
> Petitte exercises his player option, $16 million (who could resist being the hero for that kind of cash) or he negotiates a new deal for 2 years, $28 million
> Yankees exercise option on Abreu, $16 million (vs. $2 million buy out)



This along with only of couple of top tier revenue generating teams can only compete year and year out has made me lose interest in the sport. I think the dice K signing by the bosox sent me over. It was a brilliant strategy to get him but something doesn't seem right. I read somewhere that Steinbrener paid over a billion dollars in the past 12 years to contend for a world series. Mind boggling.


----------



## tjf67 (Oct 11, 2007)

A-Rod gets extended for an additional 7 years, $210,000,013 (for the extra 7 years)  
Mo for 2 years, $24 million 
Posada for 2 years, $26 million 
Petitte exercises his player option, $16 million (who could resist being the hero for that kind of cash) or he negotiates a new deal for 2 years, $28 million 
Yankees exercise option on Abreu, $16 million (vs. $2 million buy out) 

I say drop Mo.  Sign Posada, Drop Pettite and keep abreu.  Give the young guns some money and bring in willie to run the crew.

Oh if we can  keep a-rod do it at all cost.  30 years from now it could be the housee that arod built.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 11, 2007)

Everyone loves the Yankees.

Do you realize there are more posts in this thread than in the official Red Sox playoff thread since the Yanks were eliminated? It's like Killington...everyone loves to hate it but they can't stop talking about it.

Admit it Red Sox fans, you are lost without the Yanks. They bring out the best in your club.


----------



## 2knees (Oct 11, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Admit it Red Sox fans, you are lost without the Yanks. They bring out the best in your club.



hardly jim.  this is the first time i've read this thread in a long time.  I couldnt care less what happens to the yankees now or what happened to them last week.

not all red sox fans fixate on the yankees.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 11, 2007)

2knees said:


> hardly jim.  this is the first time i've read this thread in a long time.  I couldnt care less what happens to the yankees now or what happened to them last week.
> 
> not all red sox fans fixate on the yankees.




LOL.  I think you just proved Jim's point.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 11, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Everyone loves the Yankees.
> 
> Do you realize there are more posts in this thread than in the official Red Sox playoff thread since the Yanks were eliminated? It's like Killington...everyone loves to hate it but they can't stop talking about it.
> 
> Admit it Red Sox fans, you are lost without the Yanks. They bring out the best in your club.



  Jim theres been nothing to talk about for  a week, the redsox swept and still dont play til tomorrow, of course the Yankee thread has more hits, this is a team that has spent 1.4 billion on payroll over the last 7yrs and hasnt won a worldseries and hasnt made it out of the 1st round in 3yrs, this is news.. There is no turmoil on the redsox, i know who will be hitting #3 in mylineup next year, i know who will be closing games and i know who my manager will be.. Just wait til Torre goes this thread will really take off!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 11, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> 1.4 billion on payroll over the last 7yrs



This _again_?  

Why do Red Sox fans constantly quote dollar figures?  You guys spend way too much money, too.  So far the only team that "bought" a World Series Championship in the 21st century is the Sox!  The 2004 team has the highest payroll for a World Series winning team ever.  

:smash:  

As far as the AL East goes, only the Devil Rays (and maybe Blue Jays) fans have something to complain about.  

The Yankees generate so much discussion because people are naturally drawn to, or repulsed by, greatness.  ;-)


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 11, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> This _again_?
> 
> Why do Red Sox fans constantly quote dollar figures?  You guys spend way too much money, too.  So far the only team that "bought" a World Series Championship in the 21st century is the Sox!  The 2004 team has the highest payroll for a World Series winning team ever.
> 
> ...



 I only bring up payroll because it annoys people like you.. Your right that 04 team was way up there in payroll but lets be honest if you won a world series once in the last 7yrs you would be the highest paid world series team ever.  Not my fault you cant close the deal.


----------



## 2knees (Oct 11, 2007)

anyone hear that boras is reportedly going to seek an 11 year deal for arod?  They were talking about that on the FAN the other day.  I think that would make him 43 at the end of the contract.


now back to your regularly scheduled quabbling.  :wink:


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 11, 2007)

Someone brought up something on the Wfan that made alot of sense if A-rod ever wanted to be the toast of the town, he could say ill sign right now and even give you a discount 10yrs for 30million a year IF you bring back Torre with a 3year deal, of course he would never do that but he would win everyone over if he did.


----------



## Mike P. (Oct 11, 2007)

If it has not been done yet, there is a press conference scheduled for this after noon where John S. will step down as GM of the Braves.  Maybe joe's not the only guy to woory about his job in the Bronx.  While the Braves haven't been a team run on the cheap, getting the Yankee payroll with his ability may be interesting.

Abreau back?  I don't think so,  I'd move him & look at Hunter & move Melky over unless theres another big right fielder available.  Sounds like you need to keep Joe to keep your closer & Andy P., possibly Posada too.  Posada like Varitek in Boston are the key guys.  Yanks either need pitching or the kids need to make the jump.  They took some steps, they need more or you need to package a couple of them.  From what I've seen Hughes the only starter i'd make untouchable.  (Joba on the fast track for Mo's job if he leaves, learns more & in a couple of years replaces him)

Busier, you bet, ever listen to EEI?  the bad thing they can talk about is the Bruins & hockey right now is so irrelvant (how much has been on the Fan either & the Knicks are only in the news because of Thomas' mouth) you can't complaim about a sport nobody watches.


----------



## tree_skier (Oct 12, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I only bring up payroll because it annoys people like you.. Your right that 04 team was way up there in payroll but lets be honest if you won a world series once in the last 7yrs you would be the highest paid world series team ever.  Not my fault you cant close the deal.




Another way to annoy them is use the S word, Steriods.  Living in south central Vermont I have more then a few yankee fans around and all you have to do is mention steriods, yankees and makes you wonder and they fly off in a huge fit.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 12, 2007)

tree_skier said:


> Another way to annoy them is use the S word, Steriods.  Living in south central Vermont I have more then a few yankee fans around and all you have to do is mention steriods, yankees and makes you wonder and they fly off in a huge fit.




You mean like how Big Papi's power surge and Manny's prodigious home run output raises question marks?


----------



## tree_skier (Oct 12, 2007)

No its more like how they keep a know steriod user around to mentor thier younger players in the positive impact of proformance enhancing suppliments. and how you cant find anyone in baseball throwing 100 mph with any consistancy and all of a sudden the yankees have 2 incredible hulks that can throw over 100 etc.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 12, 2007)

You say "tomato", I say "tomato".


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 19, 2007)

Sooo the Yanks fly Torre to Tampa offer him a 33% pay cut and when he says no they dont even ask well where can a middle ground be??  Thats messed up on their part.  I guess 12straight playoff runs, 6WS appearances and 4 WS wins isnt even enough for a counter offer.  The Yankees are fools for pulling this BS on Joe Torre!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 19, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Sooo the Yanks fly Torre to Tampa offer him a 33% pay cut and when he says no they dont even ask well where can a middle ground be??  Thats messed up on their part.  I guess 12straight playoff runs, 6WS appearances and 4 WS wins isnt even enough for a counter offer.  The Yankees are fools for pulling this BS on Joe Torre!




Meh.  It's not _total _BS.  If Torre took the job, he would still have been the highest paid manager by a whopping $1.5 million (Pinella, at number 2, makes $3.5 million....Francona makes $1.65 million!).  Torre also had to opportunity to make an additional $3 million in performance bonuses, bringing the total up to $8 million, and, if he had made that, he would have been guaranteed $8 million in 2009 (and would have opened up the new stadium).

Not an insulting offer.  If the Yankees had really wanted him, though, I think the offer would have been a little sweeter.  My biggest beef with the whole thing was that the team seems to have tried to walk the middle road between letting him go and bringing him back, and they came out looking a little indecisive and wussy.  Just make a decision!

I also don't think performance bonuses are a good thing for managers.  The players play the game.  I'm also not confident that Torre could have restrained his bullpen "management" if he knew a cool million was riding on his every move.  Joba would have had no chance to develop with a manager looking to ride his arm into the ground to win at any cost.

Now the pressure is squarely on Cashman's shoulders....What moves will he pull to ensure the team doesn't collapse next year without Joe's steadying hand?  

Wang + Damon + $$$ to offset some of Damon's salary (50%?) for Santana?  Not totally ridiculous.  The Twins need a centerfielder, Damon still wants to play it (even if he probably can't), the Yankees have surplus outfielders (Matsui, Melky, Abreu as a starting crew is not bad, not amazing, but not bad), and Wang is still cheap (though I'm not sure how well a sinkerballer will do on artificial turf).


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 19, 2007)

Post-script:  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/10/18/torre/index.html

Ouch....


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 19, 2007)

Post-post-script: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/10/18/yankees.torre/index.html?eref=T1

Not so ouch....


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 19, 2007)

Post-post-post-script:  http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20071018&content_id=2271894&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

Nice.  I feel better.  Torre might "regret" his decision!  No more "ouch"....


----------



## Paul (Oct 19, 2007)

The job is yours, if you SHAVE THOSE SIDEBURNS!!!!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 19, 2007)

Paul said:


> The job is yours, if you SHAVE THOSE SIDEBURNS!!!!




Someone pointed out the "curse of Mattingly" to me...

His playing career was from 81 to 95, not exactly the glory years, and he joined the coaching staff in 2004 (I can't exactly remember, but something unusual happened that postseason).


----------



## JimG. (Oct 19, 2007)

They didn't want him back and didn't have the balls to fire him.

So they made him an offer he could not accept...totally insulting!

I will miss Torre and the team will too. I already miss George Steinbrenner who is clearly no longer in control...he would not have waited almost 2 weeks to insult Torre.

George would have fired him right after the last loss to Cleveland. And I would have respected that.

But not this. Shameful.


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm happy Joe turned them down.  I hope he takes a job elsewhere making 3 mil out of spite.

Was the offer a good one?  yes, but the paycheck coupled with the lack of a guarantee was a slap in the face.

Joe Torre did a heckuva job in NY, definitely one of the top 3 managers they've ever had.  Granted, he almost always had the best roster due to Steinbrenners wallet, but high payrolls don't guarantee championships.  They help for sure, but don't guarantte them like Steinbrenner would like to think.


----------



## Brettski (Oct 19, 2007)

supposed to be a press conference now at 2

Go to http://www.wfan.com


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 19, 2007)

Well from the press conference he was clearly hurt with a contract that had incentives built into winning.. He knows a world series is the goal everyyear, and for the yankees to give 1 million per each step closer to it was insulting.  I hope when they cant find someone and they go back to him in a few weeks he tells them where to stick it.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 20, 2007)

JimG. said:


> They didn't want him back and didn't have the balls to fire him.
> 
> So they made him an offer he could not accept...totally insulting!
> 
> ...




Shameful?  He had the opportunity to make $16 million over two years managing the world's greatest franchise, a job he said he loved.  For him to say the offer was insulting is ridiculous.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Oct 20, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Shameful?  He had the opportunity to make $16 million over two years managing the world's greatest franchise, a job he said he loved.  For him to say the offer was insulting is ridiculous.



I agree with Jim.  It was a classic case of passive aggressiveness.  They don't have the balls to fire him so they make him an offer he had to refuse if he wanted to save face.  Imagine your boss telling you that you've done a good job but "we're going to lower your salary."  It's like trying to break up with your significant other by treating them like crap until they dump you.  This way you can tell all her/his friends that she/he dumped you.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 20, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> I agree with Jim.  It was a classic case of passive aggressiveness.  They don't have the balls to fire him so they make him an offer he had to refuse if he wanted to save face.  Imagine your boss telling you that you've done a good job but "we're going to lower your salary."  It's like trying to break up with your significant other by treating them like crap until they dump you.  This way you can tell all her/his friends that she/he dumped you.




If my boss told me that my job performance wasn't sufficient, but they were offering me the opportunity to keep my job (because I was still appreciated) and make MORE money if I met certain performance goals?  And, by the way, they reminded me that I'd still be making almost 2x what any other employee in my position makes?

I'm not saying everything was done perfectly by the team, but I don't think it's so black and white as some are making it out to be.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 20, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> If my boss told me that my job performance wasn't sufficient, but they were offering me the opportunity to keep my job (because I was still appreciated) and make MORE money if I met certain performance goals?  And, by the way, they reminded me that I'd still be making almost 2x what any other employee in my position makes?
> 
> I'm not saying everything was done perfectly by the team, but I don't think it's so black and white as some are making it out to be.



 I see both of your points, i think the part your missing is, well im not sure what you do for a living but if someone had to cut your salary and give you a unique bonus proposition instead because they felt after 12yrs that at the end of the year you really might have forgot what your companies ultimate goal would be, well you would probably be insulted wouldnt you??  I thought so.  It was never about money.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 22, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> I see both of your points, i think the part your missing is, well im not sure what you do for a living but if someone had to cut your salary and give you a unique bonus proposition instead because they felt after 12yrs that at the end of the year you really might have forgot what your companies ultimate goal would be, well you would probably be insulted wouldnt you??  I thought so.  It was never about money.




I don't know if management thought he "forgot", as much as they were looking to try to change something.  Put a different spin on things.  Tweak things.

Anyway, I think it was a fair offer, not a great offer, but a fair offer for the most privileged and prestigious managing jobs in all of sports.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 22, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> I don't know if management thought he "forgot", as much as they were looking to try to change something.  Put a different spin on things.  Tweak things.
> 
> Anyway, I think it was a fair offer, not a great offer, but a fair offer for the most privileged and prestigious managing jobs in all of sports.



  If anything 2 yrs would have been nice, 1 last year to close up Yankee stadium, 1 year after that to open up the new Yankee stadium.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 23, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Shameful?  He had the opportunity to make $16 million over two years managing the world's greatest franchise, a job he said he loved.  For him to say the offer was insulting is ridiculous.



We never seem to agree.

He kept that team of egos together when they had a horrible start...then competed for the division title right down to almost the last day of the season...and won the wildcard. They lost because the PLAYERS played poorly.

He went to the playoffs 12 straight years.

Went to the World Series 6 times and won 4.

That record merits a pay cut? And being left to twist in the wind for 10 days while they got their "act" together? You might work well with my ex-boss who I told where to stick it a month ago...he thinks the same way.

Yes, that contract was an insult and was shameful. Nothing good will come from this decision. The Yanks will pay for this error for years to come.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 23, 2007)

JimG. said:


> We never seem to agree.
> 
> He kept that team of egos together when they had a horrible start...then competed for the division title right down to almost the last day of the season...and won the wildcard. They lost because the PLAYERS played poorly.
> 
> ...




Jim, we'll never see eye to eye on this, but, if you have the time, consider this S.I. piece in light of your statements: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.tuesday/index.html.

Interesting to see the half-truths and misrepresentations Torre has been spouting since getting "insulted" by the world's greatest franchise.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 23, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Jim, we'll never see eye to eye on this, but, if you have the time, consider this S.I. piece in light of your statements: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.tuesday/index.html.
> 
> Interesting to see the half-truths and misrepresentations Torre has been spouting since getting "insulted" by the world's greatest franchise.



So your take is that Torre should have been happy because they offered a $2.5 million pay cut instead of a $3 million pay cut? Dude, what are you smoking?

And he should be happy that he gets a pay cut when they are going to break the bank signing the very players who failed to win? And most likely give A-Rod (who again choked when it counted most) a big pay increase? 

And he should be paid twice as much as other managers when he's the one managing a team with twice the payroll of any other team! So that argument is total crap.

If the Yanks had any balls at all and they wanted to give Torre a pay cut, they would have given each player on this year's team an equal percentage pay cut. But they couldn't do that to the spoiled brats, could they? So they picked on the easy target.

NO BALLS!! SHAMEFUL!!!!!!!


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 24, 2007)

JimG. said:


> So your take is that Torre should have been happy because they offered a $2.5 million pay cut instead of a $3 million pay cut? Dude, what are you smoking?
> 
> And he should be happy that he gets a pay cut when they are going to break the bank signing the very players who failed to win? And most likely give A-Rod (who again choked when it counted most) a big pay increase?
> 
> ...




Geesh.  I didn't realize you were so passionate about this!

Anyway, focusing on the pay cut is such a red herring.  He was fine with an apparently even greater pay cut last spring training.  He's asked for performance pay before (but nothing like what the Yankees were offering him....$1 million per round of the playoffs!!).  

The team hasn't won since 2000, and hasn't been to the World Series since 2003.  And they've had a few pretty miserable flameouts recently.  He should be held accountable, too.  It's been 7 years.

All the team had to do was reach the World Series, not win it, and he'd get $16 million over two years.  I think Torre is a bit full of it and full of himself.  

But, it was his right to not take the deal.  I think, though, that the deal was fair and reasonable, and management did everything they were prepared to do.  The team wouldn't pay some dude $5 million they didn't want.


----------



## riverc0il (Oct 24, 2007)

Performance based pay for a baseball team manager is just silly, IMO, and it should never become standard. Managers control a lot, but in the end, the players have to deliver in order for the team to advanced you if an opposing team's GM has put together a far superior team that performs better, that is out of control of the manager as well. I think bonuses for players that make seasonal best statistics (lead the league in ERA, hits, RBIs, etc.) is a better individual performance barometer for performance based pay. So many factors are beyond a manager's control when it comes to advancing in the playoffs. To even suggest that Torre needed that incentive to remind him of the importance of advancing in the playoffs is laughably insulting.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 24, 2007)

riverc0il said:


> To even suggest that Torre needed that incentive to remind him of the importance of advancing in the playoffs is laughably insulting.




Except, again, Torre had asked for, and gotten, such performance-based compensation in the past (just not at the same level)....


----------



## tjf67 (Oct 24, 2007)

JimG. said:


> They didn't want him back and didn't have the balls to fire him.
> 
> So they made him an offer he could not accept...totally insulting!
> 
> ...




They did not want him back but gave him the repect he deserves by offering him a contract.  Torre knew they did not want him back.  He should have stepped up and retired.  They gave him every opportunity to win.  He could not get it done.  SORRY JOE I LOVE YOU BUT STEP ASIDE.  Its a hard thing for a true yankee fan to say but if we want a series something had to change.  Keep doing the same old thing get the same old results.


----------



## jack97 (Oct 24, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Keep doing the same old thing get the same old results.




Dunno what they will do in the off season but IMO the front office got themselves into this mess. Bascially signing or trading for big money players that didn't produce. I think the last set of players that came up in the farm system are jeter, petite and rivera. Local media have been saying that they have no prospects left to trade for. Thus they can only compete in FA market or they can make the type trades so that the other team can dump salary onto the yanks..... doesn't sound good in the short term.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 25, 2007)

They're going to hire Mattingly...don't get me wrong here, I loved Mattingly as a player and he's probably the most popular ex-Yankee player among fans.

But he has zero managerial experience. ZERO. This is who they're going to hire to replace a legend?

And then I had to listen to Hank "no balls" Steinbrenner tell us that we need to have patience with the new manager. Patience? In NY? Does Hank have any clue? He even had the audacity to say that the new manager isn't coming to the 1996 Yanks! Excuse me if I am wrong, but the 1996 Yanks had yet to win anything before Torre took over.

I don't think Hank could fit any more feet into his mouth at this point. I have a bad feeling about this.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 25, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> They did not want him back but gave him the repect he deserves by offering him a contract.  Torre knew they did not want him back.  He should have stepped up and retired.  They gave him every opportunity to win.  He could not get it done.  SORRY JOE I LOVE YOU BUT STEP ASIDE.  Its a hard thing for a true yankee fan to say but if we want a series something had to change.  Keep doing the same old thing get the same old results.



And you think the MANAGER is the one who didn't produce.

Did Joe throw a single pitch or swing a bat once?

"He could not get it done." Please.

Anyone who blames Torre and not the players for that will have a rude awakening next season. Oh, wait, I forgot. We have to be "patient". Yes, I can see it now, all those patient Yankee fans sitting politely in their seats at the stadium.

I see a return to the days of  Fritz Peterson and Horace Clark.


----------



## tjf67 (Oct 25, 2007)

JimG. said:


> And you think the MANAGER is the one who didn't produce.
> 
> Did Joe throw a single pitch or swing a bat once?
> 
> ...




Joe was the manager.  THe buck stops there.  He had to go.  With that team I could have brought them to the playoffs the past 12 years.  Whoever they bring in has a team that can compete with anyone if they can hold the players.   May be they will bring some enthusiam to the dug out.


----------



## tjf67 (Oct 25, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Joe was the manager.  THe buck stops there.  He had to go.  With that team I could have brought them to the playoffs the past 12 years.  Whoever they bring in has a team that can compete with anyone if they can hold the players.   May be they will bring some enthusiam to the dug out.




Oh an BTW I am not blaming anyone.  It is what it is.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 25, 2007)

tjf67 said:


> Joe was the manager.  THe buck stops there.  He had to go.  With that team I could have brought them to the playoffs the past 12 years.  Whoever they bring in has a team that can compete with anyone if they can hold the players.   May be they will bring some enthusiam to the dug out.



I respect your opinion.

I think you value your managerial ability a little too much...and I think you disrespect a sure Hall of Fame manager with your comments.

So be it...I predict all Torre detractors will be eating humble pie next season.


----------



## tjf67 (Oct 25, 2007)

JimG. said:


> I respect your opinion.
> 
> I think you value your managerial ability a little too much...and I think you disrespect a sure Hall of Fame manager with your comments.
> 
> So be it...I predict all Torre detractors will be eating humble pie next season.




My comments in no way disrepect Torre.  He certainly is a hall of famer.  At the end of the day his team lost in the playoff s in the first round two years in a row.  They came out of the box the past two years flat.  The manager certainly has something to do with that.


----------



## Mike P. (Oct 25, 2007)

Coming out of the box flat was Joe's fault & not Jeter's.  Come on, the Captian the last couple of years hits in the .200's.  He's also ressponible for for those fur Red Sox Homer's back to back... because he told the GM that Pavano, Mussina & Igawa were prime time guys & the kids could stay in the minors longer.

Granted, Chamberlain & Hughes appear to be the real deals, & Kennedy might be too but if Cashman was responsible for the starting rotaion the last couple of years, he should be the guy out of there.   You can add Wright & Kevin Brown to that mix & apparently no one wanted Farnsworth contract this July.  That's Kyle, not Leo.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 29, 2007)

_Dear A-Rod,

I hate you.

Sincerely,

A former fan._


Seriously though, A-Rod opting out hurt me more than the Sox's seventh World Series victory.  I can relate to the Sox fans' passion, even if it pains me.  There are no winners in the A-Rod saga.  I pulled so hard for that %%@@µ*** and defended him at all times, but I'm left speechless.  What a loser.

Hank Steinbrenner doesn't seem like the brightest bulb in the room, but he got this right:

"'It's clear he didn't want to be a Yankee,' Hank Steinbrenner told the Daily News last night. 'He doesn't understand the privilege of being a Yankee on a team where the owners are willing to pay $200 million to put a winning product on the field.

'I don't want anybody on my team that doesn't want to be a Yankee.'"

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/10/28/2007-10-28_hank_steinbrenner_says_goodbye_to_arod.html?ref=rss


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 29, 2007)

OldsnowboarderME said:


> He wanted to be a Red Sox and would have if it hadn't been for the players union.



This again?  Why do people still think it was the players union's fault?  Boston's management wouldn't pay the extra one or two million a year to get A-Rod, instead asking him to restructure the deal.  The players union said no to the restructuring, but it was management's then-cheap ways that did in the deal.  Since then, of course, they've been willing to blow all sorts of cash on suspect players (see Dice-K (he might get better), Lugo, JD Drew).

A-Rod doesn't give two sh*ts about a ring.  He plays for himself.  No one and nothing else.  He made his announcement during the 3rd inning of Game 4!  And didn't show up for the Hank Aaron award.  He doesn't give a crap about fans, history, nothing.  There isn't anything necessarily wrong with that.  He's a professional doing a job.  But, he let a lot of people believe otherwise up to this point.  

:uzi:


----------



## Brettski (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks like it's gonna be a fire-sale


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 29, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> This again?  Why do people still think it was the players union's fault?  Boston's management wouldn't pay the extra one or two million a year to get A-Rod, instead asking him to restructure the deal.  The players union said no to the restructuring, but it was management's then-cheap ways that did in the deal.  Since then, of course, they've been willing to blow all sorts of cash on suspect players (see Dice-K (he might get better), Lugo, JD Drew).
> 
> A-Rod doesn't give two sh*ts about a ring.  He plays for himself.  No one and nothing else.  He made his announcement during the 3rd inning of Game 4!  And didn't show up for the Hank Aaron award.  He doesn't give a crap about fans, history, nothing.  There isn't anything necessarily wrong with that.  He's a professional doing a job.  But, he let a lot of people believe otherwise up to this point.
> 
> :uzi:




 Agreed, having that announced during the game was totally lame, being too good to show up for his award again lame, granted Manny or Pedro wouldnt show up either but still.  I will say it, i dont want him on the Sox , im happy with the throw in for the Beckett deal 3rd basemen that i have, hes a good guy and a good player, A-rod is a cancer, everyone in the club house hates him and he doesnt care about rings, just money.  All year long he says ohhhh i love NY, i cant imagine playing anywhere else, trust me the Yanks would have paid him so hes just a loser and trust me the Yankees will be a much better team without him in the clubhouse, remember when you were winning all those championships with Scott Brosius? Him, Lowell, those are the type of guys you need on your team, not money hungry fake punkass thirdbasemen.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 29, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> A-rod is a cancer, everyone in the club house hates him and he doesnt care about rings, just money.  All year long he says ohhhh i love NY, i cant imagine playing anywhere else, trust me the Yanks would have paid him so hes just a loser and trust me the Yankees will be a much better team without him in the clubhouse, remember when you were winning all those championships with Scott Brosius? Him, Lowell, those are the type of guys you need on your team, not money hungry fake punkass thirdbasemen.




:beer:


----------



## Mike P. (Oct 29, 2007)

Looking back at it now, like the player's union had to help A-Rod take care of A-Rod & A-Rod's money?  That's like taking food from teh hungry to make sure the 400 pound man gets enough to eat!

Thanks to the player's union though, they kept that cancer from the Red Sox & we ended up with a year of Bill Mueller, a title, Youk for a year & that throw in guy from the Marlins.  Maybe not the regular season MVP like some of the Fenway faithful wanted but the World Series MVP. 

Read the NY Daily news Blog, someone threw Manny's name into the Yankee mix, (Don't remember if that was with A-Rod in the Sox line-up or not - please NO)  would that mean Hank, Cashman & the new manger are going to allow dreads?


----------



## JimG. (Oct 29, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> _Dear A-Rod,
> 
> I hate you.
> 
> ...



Ah...now you see the light.

And that I was right about A-Rod...a loser and an A-Hole.

This guy does not care about winning...only himself. Good riddance!!

And Hank's stance that the Yanks are out of the bidding, if true, makes up a bit for the Torre firing. I don't want A-Hole on this team.

And if Girardi does become the manager, I give Hank another star. As much as I love Mattingly, he's not ready to manage the Yanks.


----------



## jack97 (Oct 29, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Ah...now you see the light.
> 
> And that I was right about A-Rod...a loser and an A-Hole.
> 
> ...




Damn... I was hoping that the yanks would offer a big extension. That would be the best for the bosox. 

Girardi was another smart move, an ex catcher should know how to develop and pace the young arms they have on the staff. Could have been the reason why they wanted Torri out.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Oct 29, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Damn... I was hoping that the yanks would offer a big extension. That would be the best for the bosox.
> 
> Girardi was another smart move, an ex catcher should know how to develop and pace the young arms they have on the staff. Could have been the reason why they wanted Torri out.



  Hes touchy when questioned though, he wont like the NY media up in his grill about why did u do this and not this, look it doesnt matter if its him or mattingly or larussa or pinella nobody can handle these egos and media as well as Torre did.  Those are tough shoes to follow and its a shame because no matter who it is he wont live up to Torre which maybe why mattigly didnt get it, they would have a hard time firing him after a year or two, not so much with Girardi.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 30, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> would that mean Hank, Cashman & the new manger are going to allow dreads?




I keep chanting to myself "they have a plan...they have a plan...they have a plan...", but I can't help but worry that the team will go bonkers and overpay for Mo and Posada, sign Bonds, make a push for Lowell, etc.  

I, of course, love Mo and Jorge, but at $13 million each three years from now?  Makes me wonder.  

Lowell is a solid player, but his trends have been down for some time, despite this upward blip in his free agent walk year.

Bonds?  uke:

I think the team won't trade the farm for Santana, since Cashman has tried so hard to put it together for the future, but who knows?  

This is going to get interesting....

Or maybe they just play out the string in the old stadium and make a push the following year?  No reason to commit huge dollars now for questionable signings when the revenue will be there in 2009.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Oct 30, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hes touchy when questioned though, he wont like the NY media up in his grill about why did u do this and not this




Except that he played for New York and won rings.  He knows what it's about.  And he'll give the team a spark, an edge.  I'd like someone to sometimes put the media in their place.


----------



## JimG. (Oct 31, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Hes touchy when questioned though, he wont like the NY media up in his grill about why did u do this and not this, look it doesnt matter if its him or mattingly or larussa or pinella nobody can handle these egos and media as well as Torre did.  Those are tough shoes to follow and its a shame because no matter who it is he wont live up to Torre which maybe why mattigly didnt get it, they would have a hard time firing him after a year or two, not so much with Girardi.



Rational thinking.

And if they do win it in the next 2 years they can claim they were geniuses to hire Joe.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 1, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Rational thinking.
> 
> And if they do win it in the next 2 years they can claim they were geniuses to hire Joe.



 Hey its just what ive been hearing, ya he won as a Yankee but he was never a star player, now all the decisions are on him, and he has never been seconed guessed like he will now when something goes wrong.  He wont be told good job when they win 8in a row because they are expected too.  I may be totally wrong with everyone else, afterall we were all wrong about Joe Torre right?


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 1, 2007)

Some interesting stats on the new manager as a player.  I believe soemone in the front office said he was a champion caliber player.  What I heard on Mike & the Mad Dog yesterday

114 AB and an average of .184.    one or maybe two RBI's which puts him in the same ballpark as Dice K & & probably A-Rod if you include the blowout game 3 in the 2004 ALCS.

Honestly, I think he's a hard worker & will work out, Cashman's ability to get the 'right" "TEAM" players will have a bigger determination on where they finish then the manager will.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 5, 2007)

I don't get this talk about a star player being a better manager than an average or below-average player.  Is Mattingly inherently a better manager than Girardi because he was a better player?  No, not at all.  They are two completely different skill sets.

Girardi has impressed people throughout baseball, both on and off the field, with his smarts, his hard work, his communication skills and his ability to act independently.  He's a team player and looks after his players first.  He's an excellent choice.  He'll bring a hard-nosed, team-oriented and honest style of play.  I'm looking forward to seeing him take control of the team.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> I don't get this talk about a star player being a better manager than an average or below-average player.



I agree...Tory was no superstar in his day.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 5, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> I agree...Tory was no superstar in his day.



We agree, but I think you're being a little harsh on Torre.  He was probably just short of being a borderline Hall of Famer as a player....


9-time All Star
1971 MVP (led league in hits and RBI)
2,342 hits
1,185 RBI
252 home runs


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 5, 2007)

Wow Andy ops out, gettin scary yankee fans.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 6, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Wow Andy ops out, gettin scary yankee fans.



Funny how the Sox won and all anyone talks about is the Yankees.

You included.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Nov 6, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Funny how the Sox won and all anyone talks about is the Yankees.
> 
> You included.



That's my biggest gripe with Sox fans.  Many would rather route against the Yanks than route for their own team.  I guess I was wrong when I thought this would all end after the Sox won in '04, but it's still business as usual...even after the championship this year.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 6, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> That's my biggest gripe with Sox fans.  Many would rather route against the Yanks than route for their own team.  I guess I was wrong when I thought this would all end after the Sox won in '04, but it's still business as usual...even after the championship this year.



Why does this bother you?

It's one of the best parts of this rivalry.

To me, it seems there is a big fear there for them to be so focused on the opponent.

Change is good...suddenly the Yanks are an unknown, but still clearly dangerous.

The Sox are the kings of this millenium, ask any Sox fan. They've won 2. Yanks 0. Role reversal. Fun.


----------



## BeanoNYC (Nov 6, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Why does this bother you?
> 
> It's one of the best parts of this rivalry.



Because it's dumb.  There are more Yankee haters than true Sox fans in New England.  I don't mind having an intelligent conversation about baseball with a true Sox fan.  In fact, I enjoy and welcome it.  It's the blind yankee haters that know shit about baseball that annoy me.  They wouldn't even be able to name 4 players on the Sox roster.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 6, 2007)

BeanoNYC said:


> Because it's dumb.  There are more Yankee haters than true Sox fans in New England.  I don't mind having an intelligent conversation about baseball with a true Sox fan.  In fact, I enjoy and welcome it.  It's the blind yankee haters that know shit about baseball that annoy me.  They wouldn't even be able to name 4 players on the Sox roster.



Meh...I don't even listen to those types of fans. Who cares what a non-baseball fan thinks?

Blind is blind...and there are more important reasons why people hate other people for you to be concerned with.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 6, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Funny how the Sox won and all anyone talks about is the Yankees.
> 
> You included.



 Well theres nothing left to talk about with the Sox, ohhh ok Schilling got a 1yr deal and we will probably resign lowell, there ya go thats about it.  Any baseball fan of any team is fascinated with the Yankees and their issues, and why they cant win anymore with spending as much as the redsox.  It is part of the rivalry and the fact we are on even ground for id say the last 8yrs or so makes it all that much better in my eyes.


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 7, 2007)

Why are Sox fans like me here?  Because everyone loves a train wreck.  Britney grew up in a trailer so her coming unglued  (or Anna Nicole) should be expected.

Baseball's bluebloods - are falling.   

The subprime mess is interesting too, feel bad about the homeowners but when MBA types sell people things they can't afford (should expect them to default) & then bundle them all up & buy them thinking they will earn a high rate of return (better than safe choices)  because the paper it's written on says they will with no consideration that you can't get blood from a stone or  this should not be a surprised.  My 7 year old understands it.

an annual income of $30K should not own a $500,000 home if they can barely make ends meet at thr intro rate how can they afford the uptick?  (the plan was to ride the increase in property value so you could sell before the new rate - they weren't suppose to pay the higher rate in a good market & they default in a bad market)

Now back to sports.  Pat's fans are not bashing the Pat's & everything in going great. Well everything is going great (Re-sign Lowell!) in Fenway (knock, knock) so all you anyone could do is bash them last years 2nd highest payroll who knows may be first without A-Rod or Andy in pinstripes this year)


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 7, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> Why are Sox fans like me here?  Because everyone loves a train wreck.  Britney grew up in a trailer so her coming unglued  (or Anna Nicole) should be expected.
> 
> Baseball's bluebloods - are falling.
> 
> ...



 Ummm ya what he said


----------



## JimG. (Nov 7, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> Why are Sox fans like me here?  Because everyone loves a train wreck.  Britney grew up in a trailer so her coming unglued  (or Anna Nicole) should be expected.
> 
> Baseball's bluebloods - are falling.
> 
> ...



You're starting to sound like a Yankee fan.


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 7, 2007)

JimG. said:


> You're starting to sound like a Yankee fan.




No need to get Nasty Jim!


----------



## JimG. (Nov 8, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> No need to get Nasty Jim!



Heh.

Part of the fun is the Bronx trainwreck notion. They certainly have issues to address.

But I consider it good luck if other teams think the Yanks are in "transition". Sure, maybe they won't make the playoffs next year after 12 years straight. And many will rejoice. Which is kind of funny in itself.

I hear the Angels are making noise about getting A-Slob. That would serve them right, he would be perfect for them.


----------



## Brettski (Nov 8, 2007)

Are they still going to have ray-o-vac day at the stadium?


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 11, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> (Re-sign Lowell!)




Yes!  Please do!!  Go Red Sox!

;-)


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 13, 2007)

Well the Yanks did something right , signing posada.


----------



## Zand (Nov 13, 2007)

4 years, $52 million. Same as Damon I believe. At least the Yanks got someone to hang around following the departure of Torre.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 14, 2007)

And now 3yrs 45Million to Rivera, another thing they had to do no matter what the cost.


----------



## jack97 (Nov 14, 2007)

Been hearing spotty news that Boras may have overplayed his hand. Bascially he has no takers for A-fraud at his asking price. I hope Boras and Hank will kiss and make up, start talking nice and sign the guy long term. That would be sweet.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 14, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Been hearing spotty news that Boras may have overplayed his hand. Bascially he has no takers for A-fraud at his asking price. I hope Boras and Hank will kiss and make up, start talking nice and sign the guy long term. That would be sweet.



Word in NY is that A-Rod crawled back and begged the Yanks to reconsider signing him. He admitted he made a mistake. Also word that he is negotiating his own deal without Boras...the World Series announcement thing apparently was Boras' idea and A-Rod claims it didn't sit well with him. I have trouble believing that part.

Also word that the deal will be for a total of $275 million over 10 years. It is reported that A-Rod made a $25-30 million concession from the original Yankee offer of $300 million to cover the cost of the opt out.

Not sure how I feel about this. But if Hank can sign A-Rod at a lower price and stick it to Boras, I'd have to say I like it.


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 14, 2007)

Latest rumor, Cano, Melky & either Hughes or Joba for Santana.  As a Sox fan I like it, Cano could be a thorn in Sox' side for years. & both of those pitchers are better than "a prospect" .  Agree that A-Rod asking price too high, could get the money on five years or 10 years at 25 - 28M a year but 0ver 30 a year + 10 years too much.  You ould probably buy the Royals or Reds for 350M.

They need more than Santana, Wong, Mussina & Hughes & Kennedy.  Now if you can trade Kennedy instead of one of the other young arms maybe worth it.


----------



## jack97 (Nov 15, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Also word that the deal will be for a total of $275 million over 10 years. It is reported that A-Rod made a $25-30 million concession from the original Yankee offer of $300 million to cover the cost of the opt out.
> 
> Not sure how I feel about this. But if Hank can sign A-Rod at a lower price and stick it to Boras, I'd have to say I like it.





Mike P. said:


> Latest rumor, Cano, Melky & either Hughes or Joba for Santana.  As a Sox fan I like it, Cano could be a thorn in Sox' side for years. & both of those pitchers are better than "a prospect" .  Agree that A-Rod asking price too high, could get the money on five years or 10 years at 25 - 28M a year but 0ver 30 a year + 10 years too much.



A-rod might be a great statical player but he's lousy in the clutch. IMO, that's what saving jd drew. 

All that said. If I was a yanks fan, i would want them to distance away from A-rod. Sometimes I wonder if the years of overpaying for players is hurting the organization as a whole. Don't know if they have the budget left over to attract and keep the guys behind the scene. Basically the scouts for player evaluation for prospects and available free agents. In addition, the  coaches needed for player development to keep the farm system healthy.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 15, 2007)

I think they will sign A-Rod...and if they do there is no way they give the Twins any more than 1 player for Santana. And it would be Hughes. Because if they sign A-Rod, they no longer need to panic. Let Santana become a free agent at the end of next season.

I look at it this way...in the next 5 years the Yanks will have enough pitching to get to the World Series and win with A-Rod. And if that pressure disappears, he will hammer the opponent. If he can do that a few times, the discussion about his legacy becomes more interesting.

He will always have an annoying personality.

They need to re-sign Pettite and Rivera.


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 15, 2007)

They need a better staff, Pettite is not an ace anymore, sure a game here or there but there are at least a dozen guys better & Wongs post season performance made A-Rod look good.  Counting on Joba, Hughes & Kennedy seems too early.  

While I think Mo will likely stay, if he went to say the Dodgers, the NL has not really seen him much & with weaker hitters, he could be dominint for at least two years.  AL hitters are catching up a bit, still real good but late in the year, the good hitters are doing better.

Today's Hartford Courant column.  A-Rod total Yankee post season (forget just after game 3 of 2004) he is a .245 hitter with 9 RBI. (90 or so AB)  Manny & Ortiz, same period 110+ AB's both hitting over .360 with over 30 RBI's   Fans are going to need to see more than 900 Career HR's out of A-Rod.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 16, 2007)

Well it seems that Mariono and Lowell are in the same boat, both wanting 4year deals because it will be their last and both of their teams only wanting to give 3yr deals.  Looks like A-rod is gonna sign with the yanks for 275 Million, good that means no more championships for them for the next 10yrs.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 16, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Well it seems that Mariono and Lowell are in the same boat, both wanting 4year deals because it will be their last and both of their teams only wanting to give 3yr deals.  Looks like A-rod is gonna sign with the yanks for 275 Million, good that means no more championships for them for the next 10yrs.



I shall remember this post.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 16, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> They need a better staff, Pettite is not an ace anymore, sure a game here or there but there are at least a dozen guys better & Wongs post season performance made A-Rod look good.  Counting on Joba, Hughes & Kennedy seems too early.
> 
> While I think Mo will likely stay, if he went to say the Dodgers, the NL has not really seen him much & with weaker hitters, he could be dominint for at least two years.  AL hitters are catching up a bit, still real good but late in the year, the good hitters are doing better.
> 
> Today's Hartford Courant column.  A-Rod total Yankee post season (forget just after game 3 of 2004) he is a .245 hitter with 9 RBI. (90 or so AB)  Manny & Ortiz, same period 110+ AB's both hitting over .360 with over 30 RBI's   Fans are going to need to see more than 900 Career HR's out of A-Rod.



They need Pettite's experience, and he is still a good pressure pitcher. He was as much a part of the resurgence in August as anyone on the team (6-0). 2 of the other 4 you mention will come through I believe. But I also believe they will miss the playoffs next season. 

And then, if they haven't already given up Hughes for him, they will sign Santana as a free agent. And then I believe the Sox's string ends and the new Yankee domination for the rest of the 21st century begins.

MWWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Evil Yankees.


----------



## jack97 (Nov 16, 2007)

JimG. said:


> They need Pettite's experience, and he is still a good pressure pitcher. He was as much a part of the resurgence in August as anyone on the team (6-0). 2 of the other 4 you mention will come through I believe. But I also believe they will miss the playoffs next season.
> 
> And then, if they haven't already given up Hughes for him, they will sign Santana as a free agent. And then I believe the Sox's string ends and the new Yankee domination for the rest of the 21st century begins.
> 
> ...



Did you miss your medication? What works for me is putting them in a cup the nite before so that I can have them ready in the morning. 


They will have A-rod now 32 yr, locked up at 27 million/yr for the next 10 years. That got Posada, 36 yr catcher for 13 mill/yr the next 4 years. I can't wait for the next overpaid signing Hank is going to make.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 16, 2007)

JimG. said:


> They need Pettite's experience, and he is still a good pressure pitcher. He was as much a part of the resurgence in August as anyone on the team (6-0). 2 of the other 4 you mention will come through I believe. But I also believe they will miss the playoffs next season.
> 
> And then, if they haven't already given up Hughes for him, they will sign Santana as a free agent. And then I believe the Sox's string ends and the new Yankee domination for the rest of the 21st century begins.
> 
> ...



 And i shall remember this post as well.


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 17, 2007)

I still can't put Pettite in same class as Beckett, Halladay, Santana, Carmona & CC.  I was not impressed with Santana's year.  They have young arms & Lriano should be back.  The other young pitchers I like is Kazmir & Bedard but they aren't going anywhere yet...


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 18, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> I still can't put Pettite in same class as Beckett, Halladay, Santana, Carmona & CC.  I was not impressed with Santana's year.  They have young arms & Lriano should be back.  The other young pitchers I like is Kazmir & Bedard but they aren't going anywhere yet...



 Your right Pettite isnt in the same class as them, hes better than all of them,  last time i checked Halladay, Santana, Carmona and CC never won a big game in their life, especially a playoff game, Beckett has more than once so this is excluding him but i would trust Andy over all those guys in a big spot, what have they ever done? 20Wins in the regular season, so what i want a guy i trust who wont fold under the pressure in a big spot, Andy and Beckett are the only ones on this list i do trust.


----------



## JimG. (Nov 18, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Your right Pettite isnt in the same class as them, hes better than all of them,  last time i checked Halladay, Santana, Carmona and CC never won a big game in their life, especially a playoff game, Beckett has more than once so this is excluding him but i would trust Andy over all those guys in a big spot, what have they ever done? 20Wins in the regular season, so what i want a guy i trust who wont fold under the pressure in a big spot, Andy and Beckett are the only ones on this list i do trust.



Pettitte and Beckett have another thing in common...getting screwed out of Cy Young awards.

Sabathia?


----------



## Paul (Nov 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Pettitte and Beckett have another thing in common...getting screwed out of Cy Young awards.
> 
> Sabathia?



Yeah, unfortunately, Cy Young votes are taken before the post-season.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 18, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Pettitte and Beckett have another thing in common...getting screwed out of Cy Young awards.
> 
> Sabathia?



 Ya even without the playoffs i still think Beckett was better than CC, and i thought that because of his teamate Carmona that they would kinda split up the votes and it would be easier for Beckett to win, guess i know nothing.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 20, 2007)

JimG. said:


> Pettitte and Beckett have another thing in common...getting screwed out of Cy Young awards.
> 
> Sabathia?




Screwed?

Numbers don't lie.  CC was better, though Blisters was great himself.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 20, 2007)

jack97 said:


> A-rod might be a great statical player but he's lousy in the clutch. IMO, that's what saving jd drew.
> 
> All that said. If I was a yanks fan, i would want them to distance away from A-rod. Sometimes I wonder if the years of overpaying for players is hurting the organization as a whole. Don't know if they have the budget left over to attract and keep the guys behind the scene. Basically the scouts for player evaluation for prospects and available free agents. In addition, the  coaches needed for player development to keep the farm system healthy.




A-Rod not clutch?  You've been eating too many beans and too much chowder, friend.

As per SI.com's review of his 2007 campaign, he hit .333, with 98 RBIs and a 1.138 OPS with runners in scoring position.  He hit .357 in "close and late" situations.  He hit .500 with a 1.286 slugging percentage in 14 plate appearances with the bases loaded.  And he hit .362 in September, when the Yanks were still fighting to make the playoffs.

Yup.  That's terrible!


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 20, 2007)

So after 2004 the Yankees decided to start making these shirts after the redsox won that say Got Rings?? and display all the years they won the world series and the yrs the redsox won them.. So im in the sports store today in the mall and now that the redsox have yet won again their new shirt says on the front DO THE MATH, and they have what looks like a multiplication example the Yankees 26, cardinals 10, etc, and it says even a chowderhead can figure this math out.  Pretty pathetic that we have to dwell on the past that much from such a classy organization, maybe they should worry about the future more, just my  opinion, so if the yankees still have 26 and the redsox say have 11 what will the shirts say then? 2nd place is the first loser?  I dont get it, i understood it after 2004 but its not luck anymore folks not when you do it twice in 4yrs.


----------



## jack97 (Nov 20, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> A-Rod not clutch?  You've been eating too many beans and too much chowder, friend.



Clutch as in the post season. BTW, I hate beans. 

I know he had a great september this past season and he's probally the reason the Yankees made it to the playoffs but his numbers usually drop off in the post season. IIRC he did better during the post season for this year but for the highest paid player, he has to deliver when it counts.


----------



## Mike P. (Nov 20, 2007)

A-Rod improved this year & he was more clutch (in the regular season) than before.  he still hit better than some team mates in the play-offs.  In the end it was pitching that did them in.  

How is it that Yankee Fans want to hang there hat on 26 Championships.  Meanwhile, Red Sox Fans who in most cases are Celtics fans aren't going around talking about having the most NBA Championships.  They are focused on getting #17.  

Then there is the local football team too but thats already a different thread....


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 20, 2007)

Mike P. said:


> A-Rod improved this year & he was more clutch (in the regular season) than before.  he still hit better than some team mates in the play-offs.  In the end it was pitching that did them in.
> 
> How is it that Yankee Fans want to hang there hat on 26 Championships.  Meanwhile, Red Sox Fans who in most cases are Celtics fans aren't going around talking about having the most NBA Championships.  They are focused on getting #17.
> 
> Then there is the local football team too but thats already a different thread....



 Well im a Boston fan of all teams i think the biggest reason i dont go talking about 16titles is because they were over 20yrs ago now, wow thats hard to believe.  I do agree though that fans of other teams seem to hold onto the past and what they accomplished more so than the future, and i dont mean Yankee fans, the problem with them is they got spoiled too much too soon , they used to be like Pats fans saying ohhh we won it 3 of the last 4yrs, now that they have been removed from winning for a long stretch its just now all about the whole past even before all the people who are posting it were even born.


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 21, 2007)

jack97 said:


> Clutch as in the post season. BTW, I hate beans.
> 
> I know he had a great september this past season and he's probally the reason the Yankees made it to the playoffs but his numbers usually drop off in the post season. IIRC he did better during the post season for this year but for the highest paid player, he has to deliver when it counts.




True.  In the end, though, I'm happy that A-Rod is a Yankee.  He will succeed in the playoffs.  There's just no way a player can be so good during the regular season does not come through.  It's the law of averages.  He will have his day, and I will be a happy man when that day comes.  

(My previous posts of displeasure when he opted out were more a reaction to thinking he was rejecting me, a Yankees fan first, but also a huge fan of his.)


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 21, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> So after 2004 the Yankees decided to start making these shirts after the redsox won that say Got Rings?? and display all the years they won the world series and the yrs the redsox won them.. So im in the sports store today in the mall and now that the redsox have yet won again their new shirt says on the front DO THE MATH, and they have what looks like a multiplication example the Yankees 26, cardinals 10, etc, and it says even a chowderhead can figure this math out.  Pretty pathetic that we have to dwell on the past that much from such a classy organization, maybe they should worry about the future more, just my  opinion, so if the yankees still have 26 and the redsox say have 11 what will the shirts say then? 2nd place is the first loser?  I dont get it, i understood it after 2004 but its not luck anymore folks not when you do it twice in 4yrs.




Well, "Got rings?" is a tad more creative (and politically correct) than "Yankees suck!"  

What's interesting to me about the two championships in four years is that in between the teams were pretty average, at best.  I'm not sure if there's a sense of continuity/dynasty yet, but, win another one in '08 or '09, and I'll cry uncle.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 21, 2007)

ComeBackMudPuddles said:


> Well, "Got rings?" is a tad more creative (and politically correct) than "Yankees suck!"
> 
> What's interesting to me about the two championships in four years is that in between the teams were pretty average, at best.  I'm not sure if there's a sense of continuity/dynasty yet, but, win another one in '08 or '09, and I'll cry uncle.



 Well i understand its all marketing, and i wouldnt call the redsox a dynasty even if they won one more in the next 2yrs.


----------



## FRITOLAYGUY (Nov 28, 2007)

Very intersting article and graphs on the Yankee Arod new stadium situation.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-gennaroarod112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


----------



## ComeBackMudPuddles (Nov 29, 2007)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Very intersting article and graphs on the Yankee Arod new stadium situation.
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-gennaroarod112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns





Nice article, thanks.

These numbers are just so big, I can't get my mind around them.

I just can't wait until spring training!  (After some good days on the slopes, of course....)


----------

