# 2010 Golf



## campgottagopee (Mar 10, 2010)

This weather is giving me the "fever".....

skied for 4 hrs yesterday A.M. then stopped by the club and launched about 15 drivers---soon we'll be playin' 

Anyone else hitting balls yet???


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## drjeff (Mar 10, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> This weather is giving me the "fever".....
> 
> skied for 4 hrs yesterday A.M. then stopped by the club and launched about 15 drivers---soon we'll be playin'
> 
> Anyone else hitting balls yet???



Not quite yet,  but I will admit that when on my flights to/from Utah last week that the magazines I bought at the airport newsstand were _Golf_ and _Golf Digest_ - the Feb issues of the flight out and the March issues on the flight home   Also, when I stopped into a Dick's Sporting Goods on Monday, I did find myself spending a few extra minutes in the golf section checking out some of the 2010 drivers.

I'm guessing that the clubs will be coming out of their winter hibernation location in the basement real soon and the 1st range session of the season isn't too far away


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## wa-loaf (Mar 10, 2010)

Anyone else think this was going to be another car thread?


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## WJenness (Mar 10, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Anyone else think this was going to be another car thread?



I did, until I noticed it was started by campy 

-w


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## campgottagopee (Mar 10, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Anyone else think this was going to be another car thread?




Crap, never thought of that




WJenness said:


> I did, until I noticed it was started by campy
> 
> -w



:razz:


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## witch hobble (Mar 10, 2010)

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


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## riverc0il (Mar 10, 2010)

I would just like to say that, for the record, I did not start this thread during ski season again this year. 

That said, there is no more snow on the ground in the Pemi region along I-93 south of Lincoln. Even the snow piles in Plymouth near the U are mostly gone. I can't say that I have not taken out my clubs already and started looking at possible changes/additions to the bag. Courses around here won't open up for at least another month, regardless. Though I have not ruled out taken a trip down to see my family in MA with ulterior motives...

I would like to propose instead of doing one Misc thread that we utilize new threads for new/different topics. Maybe with a topic preference such as "Golf: Tiger to play at Augusta" or the like.  I think there is enough interest to spread it out a bit rather than segregate discussion into one thread.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 10, 2010)

Looked at the bag -- last time i iused them was the day of my heart attack -- so i'm still focused on skiing not ready to "deal with" the golf issue yet but in due time ....... in due time


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## wa-loaf (Mar 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Courses around here won't open up for at least another month, regardless. Though I have not ruled out taken a trip down to see my family in MA with ulterior motives...



My local course hasn't shown any signs of getting ready yet.


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## WJenness (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> My local course hasn't shown any signs of getting ready yet.



That's because they know a few more snow storms are coming through...

I hope...

-w


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## Geoff (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Anyone else think this was going to be another car thread?



I really like my 2007 GTI.   I've managed to destroy the Blizzaks, though.   I'm down to 6mm of tread on the front tires.


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## wa-loaf (Mar 11, 2010)

Geoff said:


> I really like my 2007 GTI.   I've managed to destroy the Blizzaks, though.   I'm down to 6mm of tread on the front tires.



Saw an R32 the other day. That's gotta be fun car to drive. The AWD might even out the wear on your tires too ...


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## drjeff (Mar 11, 2010)

Geoff said:


> I really like my 2007 GTI.   I've managed to destroy the Blizzaks, though.   I'm down to 6mm of tread on the front tires.



Sounds like the tires on my golf cart at the end of last season  :lol:


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## jrmagic (Mar 11, 2010)

I ahven't pulled out the clubs yet but it will be soon. I drove by my home course yesterday and saw the maintenance crew out there. They are scheduled to open in a couple of weeks. 

The only things that makes the end of my ski season bearable is the ability to jump right into golf and the boat soon thereafter.  Then the only thing that makes the end of the golf and fishing season bearable is jumping right into skiing:razz:


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## campgottagopee (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Saw an R32 the other day. That's gotta be fun car to drive. The AWD might even out the wear on your tires too ...



I kinda liked the R5 better.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Mar 11, 2010)

my first car was a silver 2 dr Golf, stick shift...loved that car


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## wa-loaf (Mar 11, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> I kinda liked the R5 better.



Diesel SUV not equal to 250hp awd golf.


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Mar 11, 2010)

shot a 91 yesterday , things even here in orlando are burnt from the freeze, honestly its been too cold to play golf for 2months here until it was 78 yesterday


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## jaywbigred (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Saw an R32 the other day. That's gotta be fun car to drive. The AWD might even out the wear on your tires too ...



One of my best friends has one, he LOVES it. It is a little small, imo...esp. to use as a ski car.

Oh, did I mention he is 6' 7" ???


And even looking at my golf clubs makes me nauseous. Its not even the end of the 2nd week of March!!!!! While I appreciate golf for helping me pass the warm months by, I am increasingly less enchanted by it, coming to view it as an often-frustrating diversion from the misery that is the offseason. If I lived in the North country, or really anywhere more rural, I am sure I would play a lot less, in favor of more freshwater fishing, canoeing, and kayaking. But I find a lot of those activities to be unenjoyable in NJ...too much population density.


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## campgottagopee (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Diesel SUV not equal to 250hp awd golf.



I was talking about an older Taylor Made driver


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## wa-loaf (Mar 11, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> I was talking about an older Taylor Made driver



ha, thought you were talking about the Taureg R5. :dunce:


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## campgottagopee (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> ha, thought you were talking about the Taureg R5. :dunce:



Ha, nope---shit bro I talk cars all day long so try not to here, but will if I have to :wink:


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## Geoff (Mar 11, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Diesel SUV not equal to 250hp awd golf.



Yeah, but I'm going to take a hard look at the TDi engine when I wear out my GTI.   A hypermiler car with some soul.   The A3 TDi will also get a hard look if I can find somebody to service it who doesn't charge Audi dealer prices.


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## riverc0il (Mar 11, 2010)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> shot a 91 yesterday , things even here in orlando are burnt from the freeze, honestly its been too cold to play golf for 2months here until it was 78 yesterday


Dude, too cold? I play right down to 40* in the Fall. Club up!!!


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Mar 11, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Dude, too cold? I play right down to 40* in the Fall. Club up!!!



ya the tolerance level goes away quickly living here, when you have to have something on besides short sleeves u almost dont wanna play because your so used to it and u know you will play bad all bundled up.  The only good thing about sub 70 degree rounds in the old people dont play so the round takes 3hours instead of 4.5


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## jrmagic (Mar 12, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Dude, too cold? I play right down to 40* in the Fall. Club up!!!



LOL MY thought exactly:razz:


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## riverc0il (Mar 20, 2010)

I can't believe it but as I drove home today from MRG, I noticed that our first local course has opened here in the Pemi-Baker area.  I got my spring skiing fix in on Friday and Saturday so I think I am going to hit the range and get in my first round of nine for the year tomorrow (only front 9 currently open).


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## Geoff (Mar 21, 2010)

Consumer reports now has the predicted reliability 2010 VW Golf rated as "very reliable".


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## jrmagic (Mar 22, 2010)

It looks like I am stuck home next weekend since between my 2 boys they have 3 LAX practices so I may be getting my first round in sooner than I expected.


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## jrmagic (Mar 29, 2010)

Well got the first one in despite it being 39 degrees on Sunday morning.  It was ugly but at least its in the rearview mirror. Hoping to play and ski this coming weekend.


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## jaywbigred (Mar 29, 2010)

Hey anyone know of driving ranges in the Mt. Snow area? I know Mount Snow golf club has one, what about Haystack? I assume Stratton has one too.

Anyone know when the ranges (not nec. the whole course) generally opens for the season?


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## drjeff (Mar 30, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Hey anyone know of driving ranges in the Mt. Snow area? I know Mount Snow golf club has one, what about Haystack? I assume Stratton has one too.
> 
> Anyone know when the ranges (not nec. the whole course) generally opens for the season?



Yup, Haystack and Stratton both have full sized ranges.  Most of the time, they open up in early May


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## ChileMass (Apr 2, 2010)

Dear AZ golfers - 

I need to buy a new set of irons this year and have a $100 gift card at Dick's Sporting Goods, so I am looking at either the Cobra SZ irons or the Cleveland CG Gold irons.  The Cleveland set includes a 3- and 4-hybrid, and the Cobras only have the 4.  I'm too cheap to spend more than $400 for a new set (only play 8-10 times/season) and these will probably do fine.  I've been a Cobra guy for almost 15 years, but played with a demo set of Clevelands last winter and they were dynamite.  Any preference on these or on another set?  

Thanks -


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## Warp Daddy (Apr 2, 2010)

After my gym workout today went out and hit balls for an hr 

I hit the Big Boy (Ping G5)  really well as far as accuracy but gave up about 10 yds in distance .. This may be  due to  a combo of factors:  i 've lost 45 lbs , soon will be 67 y/o and  my breast bone was split open like a damn chicken for the open heart gig  

The hybrids 1.3.5. were right where they were last yr   about 200-205 for the #1, 180-190  for the #3 and 150-165 for the  #5. Also played with the wedges they seemed ok for early season  BUT u gotta work those MONEY clubs all the time   

All in all pretty happy with results . I was uncertain what the surgery would do to both distance and accurawqcy and whether or not i 'd have to ALTER my swing  because of the chest incision ---


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## campgottagopee (Apr 5, 2010)

First official skins game of the new season = uke: for me. Shot 83, somewhat exceptable for the first 18, but I chipped like Ray Charles----it was pathetic!!! I hit it solid from the tee, but was hanging my second shots out to the right missing mucho greens then playing a game of ping-pong chipping from side to side. If it wasn't for making a couple putts it would've been 90 real easy. Donated my $20, but did manage to win 2 bucks in our Nassau due to my partners 72---I was in the draft!!! Still awesome fun, laughs and beers. Yee hah---the season is upon us!!!! First tourney 4 wks away :-o, better get this chipping "thing" figured out.


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## midd (Apr 5, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> First official skins game of the new season = uke: for me. Shot 83, somewhat exceptable for the first 18, but I chipped like Ray Charles----it was pathetic!!! I hit it solid from the tee, but was hanging my second shots out to the right missing mucho greens then playing a game of ping-pong chipping from side to side. If it wasn't for making a couple putts it would've been 90 real easy. Donated my $20, but did manage to win 2 bucks in our Nassau due to my partners 72---I was in the draft!!! Still awesome fun, laughs and beers. Yee hah---the season is upon us!!!! First tourney 4 wks away :-o, better get this chipping "thing" figured out.




what's your index?


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## campgottagopee (Apr 5, 2010)

9.1


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## midd (Apr 5, 2010)

Anyone play Titleist AP1's or AP2's?


Played the 1's on my honeymoon and banged them.  Overdue for a new set of irons.


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## campgottagopee (Apr 5, 2010)

midd said:


> Anyone play Titleist AP1's or AP2's?
> 
> 
> Played the 1's on my honeymoon and banged them.  Overdue for a new set of irons.



Haven't tried them---play the pro-v myself

hopefully the A-1 wasn't the only thing u was bangin' :wink:



sorry---couldn't help it


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## jrmagic (Apr 5, 2010)

ChileMass said:


> Dear AZ golfers -
> 
> I need to buy a new set of irons this year and have a $100 gift card at Dick's Sporting Goods, so I am looking at either the Cobra SZ irons or the Cleveland CG Gold irons.  The Cleveland set includes a 3- and 4-hybrid, and the Cobras only have the 4.  I'm too cheap to spend more than $400 for a new set (only play 8-10 times/season) and these will probably do fine.  I've been a Cobra guy for almost 15 years, but played with a demo set of Clevelands last winter and they were dynamite.  Any preference on these or on another set?
> 
> Thanks -



That is more personal preference and how the course you play most often is setup. Do you use a 3 now? While I own a 3 iron, I generally take it and the 5 wood out of the bag and replace it with a 2 hybrid so I can add an additional wedge.  Cobra and Cleveland both have good products out there as do the other major brands out there. try to demo them at the range on the same day to get a sense for what feels better to you and then go that way. If your current set is 15 years old, either of these will be more forgiving.


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## Philpug (Apr 5, 2010)

looking forward to hitting the range soon. I won a "playing lesson" in an auction last year. Should I use it early before I go back to my old habits?


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## campgottagopee (Apr 7, 2010)

Philpug said:


> looking forward to hitting the range soon. I won a "playing lesson" in an auction last year. Should I use it early before I go back to my old habits?



I would say no, or at least not until you get a few rounds in. This early in the season everything is going to feel "new", strange", "different"...etc. After playing you'll get back to normal (whatever that is) so when you go for your lesson you'll be able to feel the difference in whatever you'll be working on.


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## riverc0il (Apr 8, 2010)

Hit the range today following up a horrid 9 last weekend. Thinking about how one of my favorite shots is a 3/4 lob wedge, my range objective was to work up through my irons just taking 3/4 swings. WOW!!!  It takes serious restraint and even though I was trying not to do a full swing. By taking 10% off my shot, I might have lost 10% distance but gained 50% accuracy. A worth while trade off for sure!

I have also been fighting a persistent push to the right. I tried moving the ball more forward in my stance, uncomfortably so. And I dinged a perfect straight long line drive with my 6I... great shot and a great feeling. Redemption from what might have been my worst round since I first started playing last weekend. Ahhhh... there is that feeling again, finally!


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## campgottagopee (Apr 8, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Hit the range today following up a horrid 9 last weekend. Thinking about how one of my favorite shots is a 3/4 lob wedge, my range objective was to work up through my irons just taking 3/4 swings. WOW!!!  It takes serious restraint and even though I was trying not to do a full swing. By taking 10% off my shot, I might have lost 10% distance but gained 50% accuracy. A worth while trade off for sure!
> 
> I have also been fighting a persistent push to the right. I tried moving the ball more forward in my stance, uncomfortably so. And I dinged a perfect straight long line drive with my 6I... great shot and a great feeling. Redemption from what might have been my worst round since I first started playing last weekend. Ahhhh... there is that feeling again, finally!



I love the 3/4 or 75% swing thought.....a great drill for that is to go to the range and hit balls at 50%, 60%, 70%, etc, etc, until you find what swing fits you the best....for me I go at 80% pretty much all the time, or should I say when I'm playing good. Most golfers go at the ball waaaaaaay too hard and lose yardage because of it. Smotth and easy wins the race all the time.


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## riverc0il (Apr 8, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> I love the 3/4 or 75% swing thought.....a great drill for that is to go to the range and hit balls at 50%, 60%, 70%, etc, etc, until you find what swing fits you the best....for me I go at 80% pretty much all the time, or should I say when I'm playing good. Most golfers go at the ball waaaaaaay too hard and lose yardage because of it. Smotth and easy wins the race all the time.


Yea, totally. I have been told by others to "relax" but the funny thing I don't feel like I am laying on the sauce or anything with a full swing. My full swing "feels" 3/4ish even though I have video taped it and I almost get the shaft parallel even though I don't feel like I am coming close. But when I do a 3/4 swing, I can totally and completely feel a MAJOR difference between a "swing" versus trying to hit the ball and putting some force into the swing. It is amazing the difference in feel of the swing when I don't load it up all the way... So I bet if I am thinking "3/4" I am probably actually doing a little more than that. Felt right regardless.


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## campgottagopee (Apr 9, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Yea, totally. I have been told by others to "relax" but the funny thing I don't feel like I am laying on the sauce or anything with a full swing. My full swing "feels" 3/4ish even though I have video taped it and I almost get the shaft parallel even though I don't feel like I am coming close. But when I do a 3/4 swing, I can totally and completely feel a MAJOR difference between a "swing" versus trying to hit the ball and putting some force into the swing. It is amazing the difference in feel of the swing when I don't load it up all the way... So I bet if I am thinking "3/4" I am probably actually doing a little more than that. Felt right regardless.



You bring up a good point, swing vs. hitting. I know for myself if I go at it hard I tend to try and "hit" the ball from the top of my "swing" wich results in that ugly over the top move I'm so good at. ;-)

Harvey Penick said it best---"Just clip it off the tee"


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## Trekchick (Apr 9, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> After my gym workout today went out and hit balls for an hr
> 
> I hit the Big Boy (Ping G5)  really well as far as accuracy but gave up about 10 yds in distance .. This may be  due to  a combo of factors:  i 've lost 45 lbs , soon will be 67 y/o and  my breast bone was split open like a damn chicken for the open heart gig
> 
> ...


So, Warp Daddy, how's the ticker?  Sounds like you've got it going on!! 




Philpug said:


> looking forward to hitting the range soon. I won a "playing lesson" in an auction last year. Should I use it early before I go back to my old habits?


You should see what you can do to instill the old habits so you can challenge yourself, eh?


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## drjeff (Apr 19, 2010)

Good start to the 2010 season today for me!  I literally hadn't even picked up a club(let alone hit a ball) since my last round about Thanksgiving time,  so I when I stepped onto the 1st tee this AM, my only goal was not to pull any muscles    Mid 40's and a 10-15mph wind didn't exactly make the conditions ideal, so I figured that I'd just play off the white tees (makes my course just under 6300 yards) so I woulnd't be tempted to overswing.

I hit the ball solid all round, and that was all I could ask for.  Sure there was some rust around the edges,  but good solid tee balls, good solid iron shots and a 1/2 way decent putting effort had the score at the end reading 78, with 10 greens hit, 33 putts and 5 fairways hit.  All in all I can't complain!

The real fun thing is that over the winter, my course brought in the golf course architect, Roger Rulewich, who did the front 9 at my course that opened up 5 years ago, to give some tree advice to our back 9 nine which was designed by Geoffrey Cornish about 40 years ago and hadn't had much work done on it since.  The trees that were taken down (some just because they had gotten too large and really affected how some holes played, and others because they had gotten so tall/thick that keeping grass growing on some tees and greens became a real challenge for our superintendent) really changed the look and playability of some holes, and it was almost like having 3 or 4 new holes to play   Can't wait to see what his "master" plan for our back 9 is, especially since my course has about 20 acres that it owns adjacent to the back 9 that could be used for expansion/re-routing!

Let the season begin!


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## ChileMass (Apr 20, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> You bring up a good point, swing vs. hitting. I know for myself if I go at it hard I tend to try and "hit" the ball from the top of my "swing" wich results in that ugly over the top move I'm so good at. ;-)
> 
> Harvey Penick said it best---"Just clip it off the tee"



Most of the "famous" swing coaches will tell you that when you get going badly, go back to a 75% swing and it should straighten you out.  Then work back up to 90-100%.  At least that what I read in the magazines and on line.....:smile:

When I find myself pushing the ball, for me it's not a setup issue, it usually means I am coming into the ball from too far outside and slicing across.  It's a constant struggle for me to realize that my swing squares up only if I actively keep my hands inside my swing path.  Oh, yeah - and when I remember to slow down as well.......good luck guys!


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## jaywbigred (Apr 21, 2010)

First round of the year on Sunday at our toughest local county course, the very hilly and narrow Warrenbrook. It's also one of those courses where the trees have overgrown its design; holes that were designed to be risk reward holes, e.g. doglegs that dared you to try to cut off the corner...now have trees so tall that no one can cut the corner. 

In any event, I expected disaster but was happily surprised when I played the entire round without losing a ball (ha!) and shot 86 with 38-40 putts. Obviously the putting needs to be better, but for not having touched a club since October, I was VERY happy with the way I hit it. I had my fair share of loose shots, but I seemed to miss in the right place; none of them were OB, none in hazards, and I always had some sort of shot. I could easily have broken 80 if I could have made a handful of putts inside 7 feet (I think I went about 1 for 14).

Maybe this will be the season where golf gets less frustrating for me and I don't dread the end of the ski season as much?


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## drjeff (Apr 23, 2010)

Played decent this afternoon - a bit breezy (blowing a steady 10 with gusts to about 20) Shot an 82 with 4 3 putts  after hitting 11 greens and 10 fairways and as much as I'd like to blame my putting woes on the micro-aeration they did to 14 of the 18 greens at my course this week, it has way more to do with the rust in my putting mechanics than the surface the ball was rolling on!

So far, so good this golf season!


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## jaywbigred (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow. Played horrible this weekend. So much for that...hopefully got it out of my system.


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## drjeff (Apr 26, 2010)

Good news today - hit the ball really well,  putted pretty well and shot a 75 

Bad news, that 75 kicked out an 80 from my handicap scores and my handicap index dropped down to a 4.6   and that's likely going to get my butt handed to me when the Men's twi-light league starts at my course next week since that drop kicked me up from 1st flight to champions flight


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## campgottagopee (May 3, 2010)

Played Fox Fire up in B-ville yesterday----VERY happy with how I hit the ball up there---Fox Fire is 6900 yards, very tight with O/B on EVERY hole, water, and traps---it's the real deal and to top it off built through a housing/condo complex. Bouncing off all those houses can be kinda cool -----shot an 85, not great score, but hit it the best I have all year---chipping is still the issue uke:

Big tourneys coming up----Have the Pro Scratch Team (pro-am), Willowbrook Ryder Cup and the Fox Fire 2 ball all coming up in the next few weeks!!!! Yee hah---I love golf tourneys!!!:beer:


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## drjeff (May 3, 2010)

Shot an 81 today at the home course - hit the ball REAL solid today - just could never figure out the wind (I was playing in between the weather fronts that passed through today)  which lead to 3 or 4 airmails of the green on approaches and about a similar number of leaving them 10 yards short - just gusty and swirling wind out of a direction that it usually doesn't come from DEFINITELY had me second guessing my club selection all round   on the plus, Taylormade's new Penta TP ball is one really nice ball that just might be my new ball!


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## Warp Daddy (May 4, 2010)

glad to see you guys hitting the links !! I'msidelined now with tendonitis in my left shoulder ( Too much lifting and arm machines at too fast a pace  according to my pt )  classic overuse crap-- so no golf , no pushups , no arm machines  i'm farkin ANTSY to play dammit


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## midd (May 4, 2010)

tiger's sticks for sale:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tour...e-the-irons-woods-used-in-the-tiger-slam.html


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## drjeff (May 24, 2010)

Pretty solid round this AM   Shot a 77 with a ball into the water hazard off both the 16th and 17th tees   Managed to save bogey on both holes - hit solid shots in both cases, but this morning was the 1st real time this year where the combo of some warmish temps and a touch of humidity really had my new favorite ball, the Taylor Made Penta, just jumping off the clubface.

All in all, hit 11 greens, 10 fairways and needed 33 putts (felt like I had 2 or 3 reasonable putts that I could have made that didn't fall,  but that's just golf  )

I've got my 1st scramble of the year coming up Friday - I figure that should probably royally screw up the real solid swing tempo I've had this season so far  :lol:


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## jaywbigred (May 24, 2010)

Well, I've had a tough spring, managing 2 rounds and April and 3 so far in May, which is less than 1 per week. I've also only had 2 practice sessions. After a promising first round of the year, I had a string of uber frustrating rounds where I failed to break 90. A lesson with my pro has my tee game on the upswing, but still very inconsistent. 

Saturday I had to sink a 12 foot on #9 for bogey to shoot 48 on the front. Then something clicked. I got to the 18th tee at 1 over on the back, and 37 would have either been my best 9 ever or tied it. I had been driving the ball great since the 7th hole, and the 18th at this course is one I love, it sets up well for my draw and to my eye. I was thinking birdie to try to shoot 36, just for the sheer novelty of a 48-36. What do I do? Out of nowhere, I hit a super low screamer (almost a worm burner) into the bank of the water hazard that is right in front of the tee box. It ends 50 yds from the tee box, so its not really even in play as a hazard for that hole, unless you completely screw up, like I did. My ball looks for a second like its going to stick in the high grass, but then it slowly trickles down the bank and into the pond. I wind up with a triple on the hole. UGH. So frustrating.

It has been going like that recently. I did drive the green on a 322 yard par 4 that I've never reached before, but the occasional tape measure drive has been the rare highlight in a mostly frustrating spring. Hopefully I can build off that back 9, the 18th notwithstanding.


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## riverc0il (May 24, 2010)

I haven't played since courses started opening up around here. I had played a few rounds, had some terrible rounds (lost 18 balls on a 9 hole course!  ), and decided to take some time off. Still happy with my time off. Biking instead of golfing is cheaper and gives me more exercise. Works for me.  Not sure if I will pick it up again at this point. It is hard justifying the time and expense on something that is often very frustrating. Not sure if I want to commit the money (lessons, range fees, green fees) and time to getting to a point that I consider it worth while continuing to play.


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## midd (May 27, 2010)

Decided to take the year off.  had such a great time playing the plantation course at kapalua in november that everything locally pales in comparison.

plus I've completely plateaued and the game has been more frustrating than enjoyable.  I'd rather have an index of 28 than 8 at this point.


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## drjeff (Jul 8, 2010)

Went absolutely crazy golf wise today!  Things just fell into place, and I had a day on the course that I haven't had one like in almost 25 years.  Got to my course about 7:30AM and by the time I got my shoes on, loaded up the cart and hit my 1st shot of the day, it was just about 7:45AM.  By the time I holed out my final shot of the day, it was 2:45PM and my tally for the day was *54 HOLES* played!!  It was the perfect situation for me to be able to play that much!  #1 the course I belong too is rarely crowded, and with the heatwave in full effect, it was empty all day long essentially (I only had to wait for a group infront of me on 5 or 6 out of the 54 that I played today!)  #2 with the kids in summer camp, I didn't have any parental duties until 3PM #3 having done lots of stuff the prior 4 days that my wife really enojys doing (but I could frankly care less about), the "honey do" list was very sparse today and #4, I was playing well, felt good, and was able to maintain enough hydration to continue wanting to play, and framkly if I didn't have kid pick up duty, probably could hav eplayed atleast 72, if not 90 holes today!

Over all play I was was the epitome pf consistent today score wise, shooting 38-38-76, 38-38-76 and 38-38-76! I had all day long what I'd call my "A-" game!  Overall, it was like I was back in high school again and all that was of concern to me was just playing golF!  Easily will end up as one of my mopst memorable days oin the course in the now 30+ years I've been playing


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 8, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Went absolutely crazy golf wise today!  Things just fell into place, and I had a day on the course that I haven't had one like in almost 25 years.  Got to my course about 7:30AM and by the time I got my shoes on, loaded up the cart and hit my 1st shot of the day, it was just about 7:45AM.  By the time I holed out my final shot of the day, it was 2:45PM and my tally for the day was *54 HOLES* played!!  It was the perfect situation for me to be able to play that much!  #1 the course I belong too is rarely crowded, and with the heatwave in full effect, it was empty all day long essentially (I only had to wait for a group infront of me on 5 or 6 out of the 54 that I played today!)  #2 with the kids in summer camp, I didn't have any parental duties until 3PM #3 having done lots of stuff the prior 4 days that my wife really enojys doing (but I could frankly care less about), the "honey do" list was very sparse today and #4, I was playing well, felt good, and was able to maintain enough hydration to continue wanting to play, and framkly if I didn't have kid pick up duty, probably could hav eplayed atleast 72, if not 90 holes today!
> 
> Over all play I was was the epitome pf consistent today score wise, shooting 38-38-76, 38-38-76 and 38-38-76! I had all day long what I'd call my "A-" game!  Overall, it was like I was back in high school again and all that was of concern to me was just playing golF!  Easily will end up as one of my mopst memorable days oin the course in the now 30+ years I've been playing





OK OK -- U had a GONZO Day -I get It   54 fraken holes in 100 deg weather --  h'mm staying hydrated ( more about that later ) is one thing  but shooting a TRIFECTA of 76's  while setting a new record of  "Cylinders per hole"  is quiote something doc !!

Oh Yeah cylinders  or tinnies are BEERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :beer:

Doc  U R a Golf Machine


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## drjeff (Jul 8, 2010)

Warp, I'd like to day that beers were involved, but with the heat yestetday it was just water, iced tea and powerade zero that was being consumed in LARGE quantities! After my evening mountain bike ride, then beverages in tin cans were emptied in large amounts! :beer:


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## midd (Jul 8, 2010)

triple 76's is a helluva day.  well done.

you didn't hoof the 54, did you?


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## drjeff (Jul 8, 2010)

midd said:


> triple 76's is a helluva day.  well done.
> 
> you didn't hoof the 54, did you?



No way in the heat yesterday.  Rode my cart for all 54.  There was maybe a total of 30 golfers out at my course while I was playing yesterday, and *maybe* 2 were walking


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## riverc0il (Jul 18, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I haven't played since courses started opening up around here. I had played a few rounds, had some terrible rounds (lost 18 balls on a 9 hole course!  ), and decided to take some time off. Still happy with my time off. Biking instead of golfing is cheaper and gives me more exercise. Works for me.  Not sure if I will pick it up again at this point. It is hard justifying the time and expense on something that is often very frustrating. Not sure if I want to commit the money (lessons, range fees, green fees) and time to getting to a point that I consider it worth while continuing to play.


I am definitely done! Golf and I are officially parting ways excepting company scrambles. After giving it another go at the range and having miserable results, I decided that I was not willing to put in the time nor the money to be even mediocre. I could accept never hitting certain scores and not having much distance and never using a driver for lack of accuracy. But I simply can not accept the horrid inconsistency and the vast majority of shots pushing or slicing to the right with my longest reliable club not going completely into the trees (or neighboring fairway) on every shot being a 6I.

The straw that broke the camels back was when I got to thinking the following: I have never come back from a bike ride (which are free after initial equipment purchase) thinking "That was a complete waste of time that I did not enjoy and wasted my money." None of those things cross my mind when I get home from a ride. Maybe, just maybe, if I have a tough ride, I can at least be happy that it was a character builder and contributed to my health and future performance. Same with all the other great outdoor activities I do in the summer. Never a waste of time. Never a horrible experience. Never a waste of money. And the tough ones can always have a positive spin.

Heck with it. Maybe I will pick it back up again when I am an old fart and might not care about time or money as much. But for now, the price in both time and money to become even competent is simply too high. Its a fun game. But I don't enjoy it that much, even on my best days and best shots, to justify that type of investment just to be competent. 

:uzi:


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Jul 18, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I am definitely done! Golf and I are officially parting ways excepting company scrambles. After giving it another go at the range and having miserable results, I decided that I was not willing to put in the time nor the money to be even mediocre. I could accept never hitting certain scores and not having much distance and never using a driver for lack of accuracy. But I simply can not accept the horrid inconsistency and the vast majority of shots pushing or slicing to the right with my longest reliable club not going completely into the trees (or neighboring fairway) on every shot being a 6I.
> 
> The straw that broke the camels back was when I got to thinking the following: I have never come back from a bike ride (which are free after initial equipment purchase) thinking "That was a complete waste of time that I did not enjoy and wasted my money." None of those things cross my mind when I get home from a ride. Maybe, just maybe, if I have a tough ride, I can at least be happy that it was a character builder and contributed to my health and future performance. Same with all the other great outdoor activities I do in the summer. Never a waste of time. Never a horrible experience. Never a waste of money. And the tough ones can always have a positive spin.
> 
> ...



dont give up, honestly im stuck at 90-95 and have never shot below 81 and im fine with it, u get out for 5hrs, see nature, nice green lawn, beer cart if its going bad.  Set up a camera behind u and record urself and or take a lesson, cant hurt, either way u will probably see or the person giving the lesson can see what your doing wrong, slicing we all been there, if your right handed chances are your not keeping your left arm near your body on the follow thru impact, put golf glove in your left armpit if it falls out during your swing then your not keeping your arm intact enough to your body etc, it can be a whole bunch of things but id start there..


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## Geoff (Jul 18, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I am definitely done! Golf and I are officially parting ways excepting company scrambles.



That was my conclusion in 2000.  My clubs are in the basement and haven't moved.  I'm not willing to take the time out of my life to hit balls every day and I have enough of the perfectionist gene that I hate sucking at things.   I played on the golf team in high school and I've played enough in my adult life a couple of times to get my game back to bogey golf.   My problem is that I totally suck if I don't hit balls just about every day and have a pro fix my swing.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 18, 2010)

I'm the same way.  Sold my clubs to my boss a couple of summers ago.  It's a game that requires far too much time for me to play at a level I'm happy with.  It's just not a game that I enjoy only playing once a week.  Maybe I'll pick it back up again in retirement.


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## Puck it (Jul 19, 2010)

Shot a 42 for nine on Saturday. And he is the kicker.  I had three birdies.  Boy was I inconsistent.  Should have been a 37 if it were not for the 8 on #1 and the 7 on #2.  I blame the heat.


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 19, 2010)

Boy i UNDERSTAND you YOUNG GUNS !  

When i was YOUR age i didn't have the time . felt it was a waste of coin and had other less costly  activities in terms of time and expense --BUT i felt THE SAME way about Downhill skiing THEN . I got MORE exercise and a BETTER workout from XC and less $$$ and Time ,

Golf IS a FRUSTRATING game -- IF U LET IT GET TO U -- hell i just relax , hit the damn ball -- admittedly i do practice -- BUT its for PHUN -- IT ain't a damn JOB and i REFUSE to let the SMALL STUFF get into my  head 

By all means follow your instincts and perhaps at some future date you may wish to re-discover the game . But  i do GET the Attitude -- I've been where you are at


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## campgottagopee (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm surprised to read that so many people are giving up on this game, or even putting it on hold. To me I have the same passion for golf as I do for skiing---wouldn't give either one up., ever. I understand the feeling of "wanting to quit", anyone who's played the game at any level has that, but actually doing it, I don't think so. The only thing I can think of is for some it my REALLY be just a "game", but for me it's friendship, laughter, competition, winning, losing, betting, farting, belching, beer, sunshine, wind, rain......I think you get it. That's the part I will ALWAYS REFUSE to give up.


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## Geoff (Jul 19, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> Boy i UNDERSTAND you YOUNG GUNS !
> 
> When i was YOUR age i didn't have the time . felt it was a waste of coin and had other less costly  activities in terms of time and expense --BUT i felt THE SAME way about Downhill skiing THEN . I got MORE exercise and a BETTER workout from XC and less $$$ and Time ,
> 
> ...



Yeah, but unlike golf, I don't suck at downhill skiing if I haven't skied for 6 months.   If my skiing degraded the way my golf game does after 6 months, I'd be in the hospital every November.


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## jaywbigred (Jul 19, 2010)

Just updating progress here...I'm hitting the crap out of the ball, longer than I've ever been, but still not breaking 80. Coming real close, just seems like if I play 12-16 great holes I play the other holes bad enough to not break 80. Have had an 80, two 81s, and an 83 that was double-par-double on the last 3. A handful of loose swings are really costing me strokes, and golf continues to be "something frustrating I do to pass the time between ski seasons," as I say, but I know I am getting close.

Once I buy the new car, I'll have more time to practice too. Should be good.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 19, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> I'm surprised to read that so many people are giving up on this game, or even putting it on hold. To me I have the same passion for golf as I do for skiing---wouldn't give either one up., ever. I understand the feeling of "wanting to quit", anyone who's played the game at any level has that, but actually doing it, I don't think so. The only thing I can think of is for some it my REALLY be just a "game", but for me it's friendship, laughter, competition, winning, losing, betting, farting, belching, beer, sunshine, wind, rain......I think you get it. That's the part I will ALWAYS REFUSE to give up.



I can ski at a level I'm happy with even if I only make it out 15 times or so, which I have found myself in the position of a few seasons in my adult life.  Golf, I need to participate in far more than that to have my game where I enjoy it.  I just don't have the time.  I'm on duty with work until pretty much 8 at night, which leaves weekends only; realistically one day a week tops.  I suck at the game playing that little.  It's not like I need to break 80 either.  I just like to be able to play in the low-mid 90s.  That requires playing at least a couple of days a week for me.  If my life changes and I have the time to do that again, I'll probably pick the sport back up.  I've never really LOVED the game though.  I'd rather be doing something a bit more physical.


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## campgottagopee (Jul 19, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Just updating progress here...I'm hitting the crap out of the ball, longer than I've ever been, but still not breaking 80. Coming real close, just seems like if I play 12-16 great holes I play the other holes bad enough to not break 80. Have had an 80, two 81s, and an 83 that was double-par-double on the last 3. A handful of loose swings are really costing me strokes, and golf continues to be "something frustrating I do to pass the time between ski seasons," as I say, but I know I am getting close.
> 
> Once I buy the new car, I'll have more time to practice too. Should be good.



This may seem silly but give this a whirl:

Breaking 80 is all a mind set---if you're "really" (playin by the rules of golf" shooting 80 or low 80's then you are REALLY close to breaking thru. The only diff between a low single digit capper and 9-10 is his BAD shots. Meaning, your good shots are as good as anyone elses, but your/mine bad shots are no where near as good as a low capper. Does that make any sense??? If so, identify wat makes you hit a bad shot and then pratice that, then I think you'll see your score come down. Before every shot think to yourself how can I hi this and still save par, or at least save a boggie. That mind set has helped me in the past so maybe it will you too....good luck.


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## campgottagopee (Jul 19, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I can ski at a level I'm happy with even if I only make it out 15 times or so, which I have found myself in the position of a few seasons in my adult life.  Golf, I need to participate in far more than that to have my game where I enjoy it.  I just don't have the time.  I'm on duty with work until pretty much 8 at night, which leaves weekends only; realistically one day a week tops.  I suck at the game playing that little.  It's not like I need to break 80 either.  I just like to be able to play in the low-mid 90s.  That requires playing at least a couple of days a week for me.  If my life changes and I have the time to do that again, I'll probably pick the sport back up. * I've never really LOVED the game though.  I'd rather be doing something a bit more physical*.




That's why, and I get it.


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## drjeff (Jul 19, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Before every shot think to yourself how can I hi this and still save par, or at least save a boggie. That mind set has helped me in the past so maybe it will you too....good luck.



Real solid advice here and the key to breaking that 80 barrier.  It's not a question of if your going to hit a "less than ideal" shot during the course of a round, but when.  And then when it happens,  the 1st thing you should do 99% of the time is get rid of that mentality of trying to hit at miraculous shot that even a PGA Tour pro might be able to pull off 25% of the time, let alone an amateur.  Just switch to the mindset of figuring out what you need to do, to make a bogey and take that dreaded double (or worse    ) out of play, since you'll likely feel alot better on the next tee having made a bogey than if you have to put a double or triple or worse on the card

Had a sweet golfing treat this morning that I hadn't had happen to me in about 10 years.  I holed out my 2nd shot from about 50 yards on a par 4 for a real nice eagle 2!    Unfortunately I didn't get to see it drop, as it was an uphill pitch shot, with the pin placed on the backside of a ridge that divides thefront/back halves of 8th green at my course.  I knew I hit a good shot, then when i drove the cart around the back of the green and didn't see the ball on the putting surface, at first i thought that there was no way that it rolled off the green into the rough, and then when i didn;t see it in the rough, it was a fun, quick walk upto the cup to find my ball at the bottom of it!


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## campgottagopee (Jul 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Real solid advice here and the key to breaking that 80 barrier.  It's not a question of if your going to hit a "less than ideal" shot during the course of a round, but when.  And then when it happens,  the 1st thing you should do 99% of the time is get rid of that mentality of trying to hit at miraculous shot that even a PGA Tour pro might be able to pull off 25% of the time, let alone an amateur.  Just switch to the mindset of figuring out what you need to do, to make a bogey and take that dreaded double (or worse    ) out of play, since you'll likely feel alot better on the next tee having made a bogey than if you have to put a double or triple or worse on the card
> 
> Had a sweet golfing treat this morning that I hadn't had happen to me in about 10 years.  I holed out my 2nd shot from about 50 yards on a par 4 for a real nice eagle 2!    Unfortunately I didn't get to see it drop, as it was an uphill pitch shot, with the pin placed on the backside of a ridge that divides thefront/back halves of 8th green at my course.  I knew I hit a good shot, then when i drove the cart around the back of the green and didn't see the ball on the putting surface, at first i thought that there was no way that it rolled off the green into the rough, and then when i didn;t see it in the rough, it was a fun, quick walk upto the cup to find my ball at the bottom of it!



AMEN--lick your wounds and move on.

Nice EAGLE!!!!! Few and far between, but sure awesome when they happen. Ever have a double eagle???? I never have, but have seen a few thrown in against me----f'ers.


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## drjeff (Jul 19, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> AMEN--lick your wounds and move on.
> 
> Nice EAGLE!!!!! Few and far between, but sure awesome when they happen. Ever have a double eagle???? I never have, but have seen a few thrown in against me----f'ers.



No double eagles for me (same thing with the elusive ace) in 30+ years of teeing it up.  This was the 5th time in my career that I've holed out from the fairway/rough for a 2 on a par 4 though, and I can remember all of them as vividly as the one that happened today, even though the first one happened back in August of 1988


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## campgottagopee (Jul 19, 2010)

drjeff said:


> No double eagles for me (same thing with the elusive ace) in 30+ years of teeing it up.  This was the 5th time in my career that I've holed out from the fairway/rough for a 2 on a par 4 though, and I can remember all of them as vividly as the one that happened today, even though the first one happened back in August of 1988



Nice!!! I was lucky enough to get my first hole-in-one this year, and like you I've been playing for a good many years. You'll get yours and I hope it's sooner than later 'cause it's mucho fun :beer:


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 19, 2010)

Congrats Camp and Doc  Eagles and Aces are few and far between and are a real thrill !!

 What stoked me is i was LUCKY as Hell to get an ACE in my 3 rd season  a few yrs back when i was 62 . I have been fortunate enuf to get a couple eagles last yr BEFORE the Heart attack .   

 Not playing a frequently this yr and am Just now starting to get some DISTANCE back probably because we're getting some ROLL  now after a mondo wet  June.

Boy u 2 gave solid advice bout letting go of any bad shots and re-loading for the NEXT one . I'm still chasing that elusive 79 tho -- sure hope it happens before i turn 70 cuz i AIN"T getting any stronger


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## campgottagopee (Jul 19, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> Congrats Camp and Doc  Eagles and Aces are few and far between and are a real thrill !!
> 
> What stoked me is i was LUCKY as Hell to get an ACE in my 3 rd season  a few yrs back when i was 62 . I have been fortunate enuf to get a couple eagles last yr BEFORE the Heart attack .
> 
> ...



It's a cool feeling getting a hole-in-one, CONGRATS!!!!

You'll get the 79 for sure, you have the attitude to do it. Don't put pressure on yourself and let it go---kinda like carving your first turn, once you "feel it", you'll get it.

I'm very lucky that I have 3 pro's and one am (could be a pro) that I ski/golf with so all we talk about is this crap 365 days a year.....never gets old.


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 19, 2010)

Camp u r on target ------------------- if u play better competiton you can both really learn any game and sometimes really play UP .

I'm sure that you two dudes PLAY SMART and use great course Mgt skills --  i'm still a hacker and have to PRESS myself to lay up rather than hit a hero shot --- 

Man Camp   u know it bro ---------------------ain't nothing like seeing that damn ball drop in an having your buddies go nutz . I was freaking dumbfounded  could NOT believe what had happened   Sure as hell . Didn't mind ponying up for drinks THAT day :beer:


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## drjeff (Jul 19, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> Camp u r on target ------------------- if u play better competiton you can both really learn any game and sometimes really play UP .
> 
> I'm sure that you two dudes PLAY SMART and use great course Mgt skills --  i'm still a hacker and have to PRESS myself to lay up rather than hit a hero shot ---
> 
> Man Camp   u know it bro ---------------------ain't nothing like seeing that damn ball drop in an having your buddies go nutz . I was freaking dumbfounded  could NOT believe what had happened   Sure as hell . Didn't mind ponying up for drinks THAT day :beer:



Warp, that course management WITHOUT HAVING TO THINK ABOUT IT, will happen.  Likely first on a par 5 when your hitting your 2nd shot (and you know there's no way, even if your ball bounces off 2 sprinkler heads and then 3 times on the cart path that you can get there) and will click that laying up with that 5 iron to a comfortable wedge distance is a much better plan than whacking that 3 wood to a funky 1/2 wedge distance,  or on that recovery shot, the same type of thing,  you'll play that punch out not necessarily as far as you could, but to a distance that leaves you with for favorite club/distance to the green.  Same type of thing will happen with what side of the tee box you'll tee it up from to maximize the landing area for your usual ball flight.

The thing about course management that I love, and how important it is was exemplified in my courses club championship 2 weekends ago.  It was 54 year old, "average" hitting dad vs. 18 year old "bombs it a mile" son - both were tied at -3 141 after 36 holes, and Dad won on the 2nd play off hole, a 525 yard par 5, where the kid went for it in 2, after seeing his dad lay up to about 90 yards.  The kid, went through the green (from 240 with a 3 iron!), down a steep embankment and into some scruff brush, by the time he was done hacking it out and making 6, dad hit a comfy sand wedge to about 10 feet and rolled in the bird for the win, and his 5th title in the last 12 years (3rd time he beat his son in the finals!).  After a certain point, golf is more of a mental game than a physical game, and having a strong mental game is good for MANY shots a round!


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## riverc0il (Jul 19, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Yeah, but unlike golf, I don't suck at downhill skiing if I haven't skied for 6 months.   If my skiing degraded the way my golf game does after 6 months, I'd be in the hospital every November.


THIS

You guys that are saying don't quit play at a somewhat respectable level at which you can enjoy your games more often than not. If I played golf like I skied, I would be competitive in clubhouse tournaments and could go amateur tour if I wanted to put in additional time and energy. Comparing golf to skiing may work for some of you guys but it is not a fair comparison for me. I can not abide being mediocre at something, let alone horrible. And it ain't about the score. It is about not wanting to commit to the time and money it would take to get to a slightly proficient stage. That would include lessons every few weeks and more time at the driving rage than the course picking up the clubs every other day at the least. I already have one job, thank ye very much, and I don't need another.

If Golf wants to keep more players in the game and keep the activity alive, they need to figure out how to cost effectively get new players quickly and cheaply to a proficient level. When lessons cost $50 a pop, it ain't going to happen. Not really comparable to skiing either even though skiing has similar price barriers as lessons are not needed as much with skiers. You can actually improve substantially as a skier just by increasing your days significantly, watching and copying good skiers, and maybe getting a little bit of extra instruction here and there. I don't know how golf can do this and still be profitable but the barrier as far as time and money to become proficient and somewhat mediocre is just too high for my liking.

Simply put... I am not having playing the game. Some guys can have fun while being terrible. I can't. People are different and I ain't like some of you guys in that sense. Then again, you guys saying not to give it up probably play well enough that a bad day for you is not making a certain number. A bad day for me is loosing 18 balls on a 9 hole course. A bad day for me is pushing every ball in a bucket except one straight right. A bad day for me is a complete lack of consistency and maybe one or two shots during a game being even slightly close to a good swing. That just ain't good enough for me.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 19, 2010)

let me summarize what rivercoil is saying

let there be no question, golf is the most difficult sport on the planet.  I will say that the feeling of a perfectly struck golf ball is definitely SO SWEET.  Playing a par 5 exactly as you have planned in your head when you step up to the tee is super rewarding.  Drive it to here, lay up to there, pitch on to within 20 feet, 2 putt. Awesome feeling.  I'm actually more than satisfied with a bogey.  Pitch to near the green, chip on and 2 putt.   I just don't like taking 10s on holes.  Unless I'm playing at least 2, preferably 3 days per week, it happens all too often.  

I think another distinction to make between golf and skiing is I've met very few people that with enough work can't become 'bogey skiers'.  I've met plenty of people that simply never get beyond sucking at golf.  I was on the cusp of bogey and suck during my golfing 'career'. :lol: There's a natural talent involved in that game perhaps more than any other sport.  Some people can golf every day of their lives and perpetually be stuck playing in the 50s for 9 holes.


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## riverc0il (Jul 19, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> let me summarize what rivercoil is saying


:lol:

Funniest thing I have read on AZ in some time. A summary is likely needed!  

:beer:


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## deadheadskier (Jul 19, 2010)

yeah, much like my slice that sends the ball two fairways over in golf, my 'summary' didn't turn out as intended. :lol:  

in golf I often require multiple shots to accomplish a simple task.  In writing, multiple paragraphs instead of a few sentences.  :lol:


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## drjeff (Jul 19, 2010)

I really think that the thing about golf that got me hooked soon after I started playing 30+ years ago was that one day I was out playing with both my grandfather and my dad and even way back then I thought that it was pretty cool that there was this game where something like that could happen!  And now I'm likely a year or two away from the day when it will be my dad, myself and my daughter out for a round


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## deadheadskier (Jul 19, 2010)

good point Jeff.  The one thing I miss most about the game is playing with my mom and dad.  Since they gave up skiing 8 years ago and retired to Florida, I don't have an athletic activity to share with them.  There was a time when I had both skiing and golf to look forward to enjoying with them.  

I know they both wish I still played golf.  I know I wish they still skied.


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## Greg (Jul 19, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Heck with it. Maybe I will pick it back up again when I am an old fart and might not care about time or money as much. But for now, the price in both time and money to become even competent is simply too high. Its a fun game. But I don't enjoy it that much, even on my best days and best shots, to justify that type of investment just to be competent.



I hear ya. Golf is fun as hell. I totally get the appeal. I just don't have the time and money floating around to get good at it. I will probably get back into it later in life. Until then, once or twice a year for novelty's sake is fine. And I'll probably be psyched with my 115. :lol:


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## 2knees (Jul 19, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Shot a 42 for nine on Saturday. And he is the kicker.  I had three birdies.  Boy was I inconsistent.  Should have been a 37 if it were not for the 8 on #1 and the 7 on #2.  I blame the heat.



did the course have a windmill, a clowns mouth and maybe a waterfall?


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## SkiDork (Jul 20, 2010)

JMHO but isn't comparing getting good at golf vs getting good at skiing/riding sorta apples and oranges?  Wouldn't it be more apropos to compare improving golf skills to improving baseball batting skills?  And compare improving skiing/riding skills to improving surfing skills?


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2010)

I think comparisons between golf and skiing are common as they are both individual sports and often enjoyed by a similar demographic of people.


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## SkiDork (Jul 20, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I think comparisons between golf and skiing are common as they are both individual sports and often enjoyed by a similar demographic of people.



Agreed.  But my point is that its a very different skill set between the 2.   Therefore the comparions made in some of the previous posts about enjoying the activity because of the ease of increasing proficiency (again IMHO) are of dubious validity


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 20, 2010)

Doc and DHS  u guys are on target about the cross- generational inclusivity of the game . It was and is BIG in our family . My dad moved to a golf oriented community in Fla had 22courses and my son and i would go down once a yr and play with gramps . We sucked but that whole experience is still grist for many great discussions today 

We relived now . As i write this my kids , grandkids and BIL and Sister and husband are here for a week ( they're still bagging Z's this am so i have some time now) we'll ALL play tomorrow  13 of us !! I go in for my  2nd cataract surgery  this month thursday so won't play for a couple of weeks. We'll have a great time , goofy ass awards will be presented , outrageous outfits will flourish and many laffs will be had . 
BTW we do the same thing with skiing twice a year .

Point is is a real bonding experience and MAKES GREAT MEMORIES . Even tho Great Grandad is playing thAT BIG COUNTRY CLUB IN THE SKY NOW ,  we'll have some fun reliving some of the times we shared with him playing down at his fancy club and hearing him tell us all "Get in the Damn Cart " don't be runnibg all over hell chasing the balL


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## Warp Daddy (Jul 20, 2010)

OOPS screwed that up  my dad's golf community had 2 courses NOT 22 -- _ i also SUCK at keyboarding


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## jaywbigred (Jul 20, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Just updating progress here...I'm hitting the crap out of the ball, longer than I've ever been, but still not breaking 80. Coming real close, just seems like if I play 12-16 great holes I play the other holes bad enough to not break 80. Have had an 80, two 81s, and an 83 that was double-par-double on the last 3. A handful of loose swings are really costing me strokes, and golf continues to be "something frustrating I do to pass the time between ski seasons," as I say, but I know I am getting close.
> 
> Once I buy the new car, I'll have more time to practice too. Should be good.





campgottagopee said:


> This may seem silly but give this a whirl:
> 
> Breaking 80 is all a mind set---if you're "really" (playin by the rules of golf" shooting 80 or low 80's then you are REALLY close to breaking thru. The only diff between a low single digit capper and 9-10 is his BAD shots. Meaning, your good shots are as good as anyone elses, but your/mine bad shots are no where near as good as a low capper. Does that make any sense??? If so, identify wat makes you hit a bad shot and then pratice that, then I think you'll see your score come down. Before every shot think to yourself how can I hi this and still save par, or at least save a boggie. That mind set has helped me in the past so maybe it will you too....good luck.



Well, I have broken 80 4 times over the past 2 seasons, just not this year, so I know I can do it. As far as bad shots, I have no idea what causes them, but the holes that keep me from breaking 80 (the doubles and triples or worse) are almost universally tied to the tee shot, and sometimes I get penalized for GOOD tee shots.

Like most golfers my level, I can correct a mistake once it happens, but sometimes, out of nowhere, something will pop up. Like the other day when I was hitting great, high draws all day off the tee, and then on 16 a big slice into the woods. Lost ball, double bogey.

But then on 18, I had what I call a "Jayhole" (intentional rhyme there). I have no idea where I get my power from, but on the public courses I play (no caddies), sometimes I hit good shots, and it gets me in trouble, because I can't see the ball land, or because someone from another group picks it up. On 18 I hit a shot over the tree I always aim at. It is a wide open hole, no woods, no fescue. I aim over this tree on the right and draw it back. Even if it doesn't draw or even fades, there is plenty of room. It's probably the easiest hole on the course for me (unless I have a chance to break 80, in which case its an automatic double). The only possible issue is if you go too far right, there is a fence around a community pool. 

On busy days, the pool is packed, and people are right up near the fence. The day in question was really hot and hazy, so the pool was thusly packed. I destroyed the ball off the tee, right over the tree, but we couldn't tell if the drive had any spin one way or the other because of the haze, the distance of the shot, and the tree. It felt to me like it would have a slight draw. We got up to the landing area and couldnt find a ball. Not in the fairway, not in the very reasonable rough. We asked the people sunbathing along the fence if they saw or heard a ball, and they said no. There is no way they could have missed it if it hit the fence or carried it. But we looked and looked, no ball. 

Another double bogey.

I lose balls in bounds all. the. time. It is SO frustrating.



drjeff said:


> Real solid advice here and the key to breaking that 80 barrier.  It's not a question of if your going to hit a "less than ideal" shot during the course of a round, but when.  And then when it happens,  the 1st thing you should do 99% of the time is get rid of that mentality of trying to hit at miraculous shot that even a PGA Tour pro might be able to pull off 25% of the time, let alone an amateur.  Just switch to the mindset of figuring out what you need to do, to make a bogey and take that dreaded double (or worse    ) out of play, since you'll likely feel alot better on the next tee having made a bogey than if you have to put a double or triple or worse on the card
> 
> Had a sweet golfing treat this morning that I hadn't had happen to me in about 10 years.  I holed out my 2nd shot from about 50 yards on a par 4 for a real nice eagle 2!    Unfortunately I didn't get to see it drop, as it was an uphill pitch shot, with the pin placed on the backside of a ridge that divides thefront/back halves of 8th green at my course.  I knew I hit a good shot, then when i drove the cart around the back of the green and didn't see the ball on the putting surface, at first i thought that there was no way that it rolled off the green into the rough, and then when i didn;t see it in the rough, it was a fun, quick walk upto the cup to find my ball at the bottom of it!



Congrats on the eagle! I am 0/9 on eagle putts this year!

One of the problems I have with having distance is that every mistake is magnified. When your a light hitter, let's say a guy who drives it 230-250 off the tee makes a mistake, his slice winds up on the right side of the fairway; his hook on the left side. Maybe he makes the first cut, or a yard into the rough. When your normal hitter, let's say 250-290, make a the same mistake, he is usually a couple yards into the rough. When I make that mistake, that sucker is in there deep, and often not playable (OB, lost in bounds). So I can play more conservatively and hit irons and fairway woods from the tee and try to protect par, which is not in my nature, but which I gladly will do around the 5th or 6th hole of a round where I am close to or under par. 

Or, when I have an avg 9 (41-44) on the front, and I have to get more aggressive on the back, it is hard to go away from the driver, because its my biggest weapon. Sometimes it works; I shoot 37-39 and break 80. Other times, it works for 6 or 7 holes but gets me in enough trouble on the other 2 or 3 that I am back at 41-44 and having an average round.



campgottagopee said:


> AMEN--lick your wounds and move on.
> 
> Nice EAGLE!!!!! Few and far between, but sure awesome when they happen. Ever have a double eagle???? I never have, but have seen a few thrown in against me----f'ers.



Double eagles are rare. You've seen more than 1? I've never seen one, and have only seen 1 hole in one. Still waiting for mine. Been oh-so-close, including this year at the end of May (landed 1 foot past the hole, spun back a touch, stopped literally one ball length from the edge of the cup).


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## campgottagopee (Jul 22, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> THIS
> 
> A bad day for me is loosing 18 balls on a 9 hole course.  .



I'd quit too.....

Just kidding Riv, I understand were you're coming from. For me (like Doc and Warp) it's something I've grown up doing and just could never imagine being without, same for skiing, and hunting. Those are the activities that I grew up doing with my family since I was just a boy, and I thank them for that.


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## campgottagopee (Jul 22, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Double eagles are rare. You've seen more than 1? I've never seen one, and have only seen 1 hole in one. Still waiting for mine. Been oh-so-close, including this year at the end of May (landed 1 foot past the hole, spun back a touch, stopped literally one ball length from the edge of the cup).



Yup, I've been in the same group to witness 3, and have been in countless tourney's (fall capt-n-crews) only to see a groups eagle get cancelled by a dbl eagle. In fact, it happened to my team yesterday during a Coaches vs. Cancer fund raiser. We had an eagle on the 8 hole and another team holed the some bitch out for a two.


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## jaywbigred (Jul 22, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Yup, I've been in the same group to witness 3, and have been in countless tourney's (fall capt-n-crews) only to see a groups eagle get cancelled by a dbl eagle. In fact, it happened to my team yesterday during a Coaches vs. Cancer fund raiser. We had an eagle on the 8 hole and another team holed the some bitch out for a two.



Wow, that's amazing. I've only ever even HEARD of 1 from a person I know...my uncle, who used to be a 1 or a 2, had one at his home course where his father was a member and where he has been a member his whole life. He is 62, and this was about 10 years ago, maybe 15. It was during the club championship, and he is the only person known to ever have double eagled that hole (course opened in 1915). There is a plaque on the bench by the tee on that hole with his name now.

Speaking of plaques and double eagles, there is a plaque at one of the local county courses I play that commemorates a long-time employee of the course (he may have been the superintendent) after he passed away. The plaque discusses the highlight of his golf "Career" as being, and I quote, "When in 1984, he double eagled the 505 yard par 5 18th hole, which included a 250 yard tee shot." Now, a 250 yard tee shot, up hill, into the wind (generally) with 1984 clubs and balls is plenty commendable. But how is that the shot that gets commemorated on a plaque for all antiquity????? WHAT ABOUT THE FOLLOWING SHOT, A 255 YARD SHOT FROM THE FAIRWAY, TO A BLIND GREEN, GUARDED BY BUNKERS, INTO THE WIND, THAT WENT IN THE HOLE???? They totally missed the boat on that one!


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## campgottagopee (Jul 22, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Wow, that's amazing. I've only ever even HEARD of 1 from a person I know...my uncle, who used to be a 1 or a 2, had one at his home course where his father was a member and where he has been a member his whole life. He is 62, and this was about 10 years ago, maybe 15. It was during the club championship, and he is the only person known to ever have double eagled that hole (course opened in 1915). There is a plaque on the bench by the tee on that hole with his name now.
> 
> Speaking of plaques and double eagles, there is a plaque at one of the local county courses I play that commemorates a long-time employee of the course (he may have been the superintendent) after he passed away. The plaque discusses the highlight of his golf "Career" as being, and I quote, "When in 1984, he double eagled the 505 yard par 5 18th hole, which included a 250 yard tee shot." Now, a 250 yard tee shot, up hill, into the wind (generally) with 1984 clubs and balls is plenty commendable. But how is that the shot that gets commemorated on a plaque for all antiquity????? WHAT ABOUT THE FOLLOWING SHOT, A 255 YARD SHOT FROM THE FAIRWAY, TO A BLIND GREEN, GUARDED BY BUNKERS, INTO THE WIND, THAT WENT IN THE HOLE???? They totally missed the boat on that one!



Agree, the second shot would hold more weight in my book too......that is why dbli eagles are soo cool, takes TWO GREAT shots to make it happen.,

We have a plaque in our club for dbl eagle's that prolly has 10 or so names on it. Now our course is short (6000), but you still have to hit the shots to make it happen


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## jaywbigred (Jul 22, 2010)

Camp, was going to ask this before, but forgot, and your comment brings it up, sorta, anyway:

Are any of these double eagles holes in one on par 4s? Is that even called a double eagle? An albatross? something like that?

Part of me secretly hopes that my first hole in one comes on a par 4. I've actually been close a couple times this year, including once at Mt. Snow GC.


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## campgottagopee (Jul 22, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Camp, was going to ask this before, but forgot, and your comment brings it up, sorta, anyway:
> 
> Are any of these double eagles holes in one on par 4s? Is that even called a double eagle? An albatross? something like that?
> 
> Part of me secretly hopes that my first hole in one comes on a par 4. I've actually been close a couple times this year, including once at Mt. Snow GC.



No, all par 5's

A 2 on a par 4 is an eagle, 2 on a par 5 is a dbl eagle or "albatross".......hole-in-one on a par four would be wicked cool!!!


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## jaywbigred (Aug 9, 2010)

So I finally broke through last week. Played Friday-Saturday-Sunday-Friday. 

That first Friday afternoon I read an article that said if you want to break 80, you need to hit 8 or more greens in regulation. I thought "Hmmm, okay, that seems like a random number, and it also seems low, but okay." Went out and hit 9 GIRs, shot 37 on the front, double bogeyed the 2 easiest (reachable, for me) Par 4s on the course (#14 and #16), then finished birdie birdie to shoot 78. 

The next morning at the same place (Warrenbrook) on Saturday I shot 88 with 4 birdies.

Sunday shot 93 in the rain at a different course (Neshanic).

This past Friday finished bogey, bogey, bogey and shot 79 at Spookybrook (easier track).

Things are starting to improve. My drives, thought not precise by any means, are improved and more accurate. And LONG. The hard ground we have now (at least at the course I played this past Friday) was giving me 10-15extra yards (1st hole drive went 330, second hole 340, 6th hole 345, 10th hole 315 on a "good miss", 14th hole 342 (on the fringe)). 

My irons might actually be less accurate than they were when I was struggling, but still decently accurate for me, historically speaking. I am getting a lot more spin on the ball now that a) I have committed to playing more expensive balls at the strong recommendation of the guy I take lessons from 1-3 times a year (Callaway I(s)) and b) have committed, with my lower irons, to hitting more knockdown shots rather than going full throttle to max out a distance...e.g. I am hitting my knockdown PW at yardages 130-140 instead of going full throttle on my 58 degree. Much more accurate and much more spin.

My short game comes and goes, but without the stats to prove it, it feels like I am getting up and down maybe once or twice more often per round than at the beginning of the season. Which can of course mean the difference between a 79 and an 84.

And my putting. Wow, it has really improved. In the last 4 rounds, even the ones where I didn't score that well, I made probably 8 putts of 15 feet+, with at least 3 of those being from outside 25. I have gone whole years without make a 25+ foot putt, so that was refreshing. I still miss the occasional, frustrating 5-7 footer, but I feel confident with them, which is why I think I have made more long ones (not as afraid to go 3 or 4 feet by, so I hit them more solidly). I've also been doing a good job identifying "danger" putts, and doing my best to leave them on the correct side of the hole to ensure a 2 putt.

Hopefully, this all continues. If I could consistently start putting my 100-30 yd pitch shots inside 5-10 feet, instead of 15-25, I would really be lethal...hopefully that comes next!!


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## drjeff (Aug 9, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> So I finally broke through last week. Played Friday-Saturday-Sunday-Friday.
> 
> That first Friday afternoon I read an article that said if you want to break 80, you need to hit 8 or more greens in regulation. I thought "Hmmm, okay, that seems like a random number, and it also seems low, but okay." Went out and hit 9 GIRs, shot 37 on the front, double bogeyed the 2 easiest (reachable, for me) Par 4s on the course (#14 and #16), then finished birdie birdie to shoot 78.
> 
> ...



Strong work with the break 80 round!  I'd buy that 8 greens is the key theory too.  What I do just about every round is give myself 1 point for each green hit and each fairway hit.  My benchmarch for a "good" round is 18 total points.  If I have 18 points, chances are that i shooting somewhere about my handicap which will have me in the 76-78 range.  20 points generaly gets me in the 75-76 range, and under 16 points generally has me in the low 80's.  The wildcard in this is putting though.  I've had some days where I'll have 14 or 15 total points and still shoot 75/76 because for the round I'll only have say 26 or 27 putts an then I can have other rounds where I have have 20 points and shoot in the low 80's because I ended up with 35-37 putts   :smash:  In the end, it always seems to come down to how the flst stick is working with respect to score!


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## FRITOLAYGUY (Aug 10, 2010)

Did you ever think tiger woods would ever finish 30 shots behind the leader?  Sounds like a computer game made up right, well he did just that yesterday, my man needs to get laid if its not obvious yet


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## drjeff (Aug 10, 2010)

FRITOLAYGUY said:


> Did you ever think tiger woods would ever finish 30 shots behind the leader?  Sounds like a computer game made up right, well he did just that yesterday, my man needs to get laid if its not obvious yet



How surreal would it be given BOTH of their performances last Sunday, if this week, the final group in the PGA on Sunday was Woods/Mickelson and they staged an epic battle for the trophy???


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## jaywbigred (Aug 10, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Strong work with the break 80 round!  I'd buy that 8 greens is the key theory too.  What I do just about every round is give myself 1 point for each green hit and each fairway hit.  My benchmarch for a "good" round is 18 total points.  If I have 18 points, chances are that i shooting somewhere about my handicap which will have me in the 76-78 range.  20 points generaly gets me in the 75-76 range, and under 16 points generally has me in the low 80's.  The wildcard in this is putting though.  I've had some days where I'll have 14 or 15 total points and still shoot 75/76 because for the round I'll only have say 26 or 27 putts an then I can have other rounds where I have have 20 points and shoot in the low 80's because I ended up with 35-37 putts   :smash:  In the end, it always seems to come down to how the flst stick is working with respect to score!



Interesting technique with the points...I am not sure fairways have any impact on my score, as I've broken 80 multiple times when I maybe hit 1 or 2 fairways. I also miss a lot of fairways on drives that are well struck and on the line I want, just run out of fairway or get too much roll. In any event, to me, after seeing what has happened since I read that article, the key stat is GIR. I think 3 putts and up and downs have a way of evening out; same too with birdies and blow up holes. If I wind up with mostly pars for the rest of the holes (GIR + 2 putt), I should be in at least the high 70s most rounds (the occasional double outweighing the birdie).

Here is a question...at what point can one start to realistically think about Par-or-better as a goal? I mean, I've now broken 80 a total of 5 times in my life, so this may be premature. But if I start doing it more often, when can it become realistic? When I start breaking 80 every 5th round? Every 3rd round? When I shoot par for 9 holes (best to date is 1 over, which I've done 3 times now I think)?


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## legalskier (Aug 10, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> I lose balls in bounds all. the. time. It is SO frustrating.



I get frustrated trying to time the putt through the stupid little windmill.


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## drjeff (Aug 10, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Interesting technique with the points...I am not sure fairways have any impact on my score, as I've broken 80 multiple times when I maybe hit 1 or 2 fairways. I also miss a lot of fairways on drives that are well struck and on the line I want, just run out of fairway or get too much roll. In any event, to me, after seeing what has happened since I read that article, the key stat is GIR. I think 3 putts and up and downs have a way of evening out; same too with birdies and blow up holes. If I wind up with mostly pars for the rest of the holes (GIR + 2 putt), I should be in at least the high 70s most rounds (the occasional double outweighing the birdie).
> 
> Here is a question...at what point can one start to realistically think about Par-or-better as a goal? I mean, I've now broken 80 a total of 5 times in my life, so this may be premature. But if I start doing it more often, when can it become realistic? When I start breaking 80 every 5th round? Every 3rd round? When I shoot par for 9 holes (best to date is 1 over, which I've done 3 times now I think)?



Par or better as a goal??  Hmmm.  For the most part I've had a single digit handicap for 20 years, been down as low as a 1 and for a year or two made it up an 11 during that time frame.  It wasn't really until I got my handicap down to a 4 or lower where I felt that shooting a round at par or better was a "reasonable" goal.  Sure, it would happen ever now and then, but the reality is, atleast for me, that it's WAY tougher to turn a 75 into a 72 or lower than it is to say turn a 90 into an 80.  The room for error as you get closer to par is just so much smaller, that if you have 1 bad hole,  more than likely it won't be offset with just 1 good hole,  but it's going to take 2 or 3 holes to "fix" that 1 bad hole.  That's also one of the reasons why I do look at fairways hit as a useful stat, since I'm much less likely to have a "bad" hole from the fairway than from the rough, and to some level making the clun selections I need to keep the ball in the fairway often is the same thought process that you'll need to better manage your way around the course and greatly reduce the chances of having a bad hole.


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## campgottagopee (Aug 11, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Par or better as a goal??  Hmmm.  For the most part I've had a single digit handicap for 20 years, been down as low as a 1 and for a year or two made it up an 11 during that time frame.  It wasn't really until I got my handicap down to a 4 or lower where I felt that shooting a round at par or better was a "reasonable" goal.  Sure, it would happen ever now and then, but the reality is, atleast for me, that it's WAY tougher to turn a 75 into a 72 or lower than it is to say turn a 90 into an 80.  The room for error as you get closer to par is just so much smaller, that if you have 1 bad hole,  more than likely it won't be offset with just 1 good hole,  but it's going to take 2 or 3 holes to "fix" that 1 bad hole.  That's also one of the reasons why I do look at fairways hit as a useful stat, since I'm much less likely to have a "bad" hole from the fairway than from the rough, and to some level making the clun selections I need to keep the ball in the fairway often is the same thought process that you'll need to better manage your way around the course and greatly reduce the chances of having a bad hole.



Totally agree....to be a scratch golfer one must BIG TIME committ to PRACTICE uke:....When I was playing my best golf (score wise) I hit balls every day and was on the putting green for hours, and it sucked!!!! To play at that level you marry the practice green....missing 8 footers is NOT an option. It's easy to give strokes away in this game and nearly impossible to get them back. Once you've started "chasing" the golf course is usually when the wheels come off. Fairways and greens.....that's the ticket.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 11, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Par or better as a goal??... Sure, it would happen ever now and then...



That is all I mean. I mean, if I got my handicap down to a 7, for example, and kept it there for a season, and played 40 rounds, I would shoot par-or-better X number of times...0? 1? More?


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## drjeff (Aug 11, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> That is all I mean. I mean, if I got my handicap down to a 7, for example, and kept it there for a season, and played 40 rounds, I would shoot par-or-better X number of times...0? 1? More?



0? Maybe
1? Maybe
More? Maybe
Never? Maybe

That's the beauty of the game, you never know????

Just as Camp and I were saying, it tends to be a thing where the closer to par you're getting, you find that you need to work 4 times as hard to get 1/4th the "relative" improvement.  And as I'm sure you don't need to be told, you can be on fire on say the front nine and then 5 minutes later struggling to make doubles or worse, and it all feels the same swing wise.

The best thing I tell folks looking to improve regularly is to not worry about the score and just play the game.  Most folks if they try and micro manage their games hole by hole will end up shooting a higher score in the end then say if they just play and try and forget where they are relative to par on their round - that brain things gets in the way of their golf game all too often  :smash:


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## jaywbigred (Aug 11, 2010)

Well I've always tried to adhere to the "don't look at the score card" thing. Didn't ever really have a dramatic impact. 

But I think if I just focus on GIRs and forsake everything else, I have a shot at continued improvement.

Not sure I posted the link to the article before or not:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_5_57/ai_n26827727/


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## drjeff (Aug 11, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Well I've always tried to adhere to the "don't look at the score card" thing. Didn't ever really have a dramatic impact.
> 
> But I think if I just focus on GIRs and forsake everything else, I have a shot at continued improvement.
> 
> ...



I think if I thought about that chart while I'm out on the course that my brain would implode and there's no way I could shoot anything under 90! :lol:

Solid stuff though, seriously! And I defintely agree that the *2* key things to shooting a better number are greens hit and total putts.  As I somewhat proved this past Monday when I hit 13 greens   but "only" managed to shoot 79 courtesy of 37 putts  :uzi: :flame:  or the week before when I only hit 6 greens, but shot 75 thanks to 26 putts.

In general I try and not let the analytically dominant side of my brain take over when I'm on the course, as it often gets me in trouble when I'm out there,  but post round, when I'm doing my "statistical analysis" I tend to not judge whether it was a good or bad round just based on the final score,  but look at GIR's, fairway's hit, total putts and if I managed to have any sand saves (atleast 1 saved stroke in my book), and what my benchmark of a "good" round is right now, is 10 greens, 8 fairways and 31 or under putts.  If the numbers show that, we'll then chances are that I've just shot a round that will likely work towards lowering my handicap.  If the numbers didn't make my benchmarks,  chances are that will be one of the 10 rounds that won't be factoring into my next handicap calculation, or my handicap will be headed up a bit


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## jaywbigred (Aug 11, 2010)

Just got back from 18 holes. Hit 12 GIR and shot 77! This shit works! Just missed that 13th GIR on 18 by 2 feet (landed on the green but I was coming out of the rough and got no spin). Got up and down though.

Had a 7 (triple--tee shot OB, ugh) and a 6 (double--bad luck, had one little branch to go around with approach shot and of course i hit it, clipping it in the process. It fell to the ground a few feet from my ball; the diameter was less than my club) on the back, but also a birdie 2 (missed a hole in 1 by about 6 inches) and an eagle (a 2 - drove the green on a 317 yard par 4 with a blind tee shot, 5 feet from the hole, must have rolled right past it because it was on the far left of the hole and i hit it with a draw). I had great looks at birdie on 16 and 17 also, but couldn't get em to fall.

Also had a birdie 2 on the front that landed about 18 inches from the hole, but it spun back almost to the fringe. If it had bounced forward on the line it was on, it would have gone in or hit the flag stick.

Things are clicking right now. Golf can be quasi-fun??????????


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## riverc0il (Aug 12, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Things are clicking right now. Golf can be quasi-fun??????????


Man, that is one thing that contributed to my not wanting to play any more. When you actually get better, your expectations increase. To the point that golf can be considered quasi-fun because you shot a 77! LOL :lol: :blink:

Whereas when I played, I just wanted to get under 100. I thought I would be the happiest man on Earth if I could shot an 89. But I notice as people get better, they are just as unhappy with their games as I am. I look at them like "what's wrong with you, dude!?" It just seems like for someone with my mentality, it is an unhealthy activity because those thoughts never go away even when you get somewhat decent.


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## drjeff (Aug 12, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> Just got back from 18 holes. Hit 12 GIR and shot 77! This shit works! Just missed that 13th GIR on 18 by 2 feet (landed on the green but I was coming out of the rough and got no spin). Got up and down though.
> 
> Had a 7 (triple--tee shot OB, ugh) and a 6 (double--bad luck, had one little branch to go around with approach shot and of course i hit it, clipping it in the process. It fell to the ground a few feet from my ball; the diameter was less than my club) on the back, but also a birdie 2 (missed a hole in 1 by about 6 inches) and an eagle (a 2 - drove the green on a 317 yard par 4 with a blind tee shot, 5 feet from the hole, must have rolled right past it because it was on the far left of the hole and i hit it with a draw). I had great looks at birdie on 16 and 17 also, but couldn't get em to fall.
> 
> ...



Great round there Jay!  Just be carefull as the golf gods can giveth,  but they sure as hell can invoke some viscious revenge quickly too!  :lol:


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## jaywbigred (Aug 12, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Man, that is one thing that contributed to my not wanting to play any more. When you actually get better, your expectations increase. To the point that golf can be considered quasi-fun because you shot a 77! LOL :lol: :blink:
> 
> Whereas when I played, I just wanted to get under 100. I thought I would be the happiest man on Earth if I could shot an 89. But I notice as people get better, they are just as unhappy with their games as I am. I look at them like "what's wrong with you, dude!?" It just seems like for someone with my mentality, it is an unhealthy activity because those thoughts never go away even when you get somewhat decent.



I always refer to golf as something addictive and frustrating that I do between ski seasons. I function under no pretenses that it is generally fun, because it is not. It might be "enjoyable" sometimes when the weather/bugs/pace of play all align to be nice; or it might be exhilarating when something amazing happens (a hole in one, driving a green, chipping in or making a long putt); but "fun" and "golf" generally do not go together, in my experience. It's too addictive to give up, plus I enjoy being outside and enjoy the way you get a little exercise but are distracted by the game throughout. My small office is full of golfers, and it helped me get my current job and will likely continue to be part of my professional life, so I have stake in continuing to play and in improving. But I am sure, no matter how much I improve or what have you, it will always be somewhat frustrating. 



drjeff said:


> Great round there Jay!  Just be carefull as the golf gods can giveth,  but they sure as hell can invoke some viscious revenge quickly too!  :lol:



Ha! Well, of course this is a self-centered viewpoint, but yesterday it seemed like the golf gods only took-eth... Didn't get a bounce from the OB trees I was going right at, DID get a bounce from the world tiniest branch on my approach shot, had 3 shots at a hole in one, all of which just missed, and to cap it all off, somehow forgot my putter on the practice green, which resulted in me 3 putting the first green (a par 5 I was on in 2) and not making a 12 foot birdie putt on 2 before I had the pleasure of a 10 minute roundtrip jog to the club house, in my golf shoes, and in the 95 degree weather, to retrieve the club, because the club house workers, who I called from the first green on my cell, were too busy to drive it out.

All things my fault, but all things the golf gods could have smiled on me for.


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm heading out in a hr  for 18.

 I always try like hell NOT to analyze and just relax and hit the damn ball . Easy to say  - hard to do .   e.g.Saturday i was going into my last hole with a 36 and was a cinch to bust 40 on a par 3 final hole -- well KNOWING that and thinking about that   i effed up the drive took a penalty then fn 3 putted for a damn triple .

I'm shutting off the brain today -screw it


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## jaywbigred (Aug 12, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> I'm heading out in a hr  for 18.
> 
> I always try like hell NOT to analyze and just relax and hit the damn ball . Easy to say  - hard to do .   e.g.Saturday i was going into my last hole with a 36 and was a cinch to bust 40 on a par 3 final hole -- well KNOWING that and thinking about that   i effed up the drive took a penalty then fn 3 putted for a damn triple .
> 
> I'm shutting off the brain today -screw it



I really disagree with you guys here. If I don't think analytically about my game, I wind up playing way, way too aggressively all the time. I also get upset about mistakes (missing a fairway, for example), that might not actually hurt me.

I generally don't count my own score, but I do keep a running total of GIRs in my head now. It really helps me focus, and also helps my temper. E.g. yesterday, on the 17th hole I hit my ball WAY right, into another fairway, but instead of getting mad, I was thinking about how to turn it into a GIR, and when I realized I had a decent chance at hoisting a PW over the trees and onto the green, my mental frame of mind turned very positive. My GPS on the Droid said 148 yds to the middle, I hit a full pitching wedge about 150 and it stopped about 12 feet from the hole. 2 putt, par. So instead of steaming about how far right my drive went and how I'd been hitting draws all day, where did the slice come from? I instead converted the opportunity.

So I think mid-round analysis can certainly help your mental game. But I agree with you guys, I do not count up my score as I go. I usually know coming home that I have a good chance to break 40 for a 9, but not the exact score I need on that hole to do it.


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

The Players Championship was an exciting tourney to watch---full of GREAT shots and drama. Dustin Johnson is one of the coolest cats on the planet. He handled that 2 stroke penalty like a man and a true ambassador of the game. Good for you Dustin, you will get yours!!!


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 16, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> The Players Championship was an exciting tourney to watch---full of GREAT shots and drama. Dustin Johnson is one of the coolest cats on the planet. He handled that 2 stroke penalty like a man and a true ambassador of the game. Good for you Dustin, you will get yours!!!



Yeah i thought he took that like a stand up guy -- had to be a very tough moment , but his CLASS came shining thru -- Good on Him . BTW those  was some recovery shots he made on the last couple of holes . Man THAT course was awesome and tougher than hell


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## jaywbigred (Aug 16, 2010)

My hot streak continues. Played 9 holes on Friday after work and I actually lost my swing. Still scrambled around for a 39. Went to the range afterwards, and couldn't quite find the swing again. Played Saturday morning and it was basically more of the same for the first 15 holes (shot 42 on the front), then the swing came back (16th hole = second longest drive of my life!!!!!!) and wound up with a 79. Managed to break 80 because I had 0 blow up holes. Nothing bigger than a 5. Weather was nice so we decided to play an extra 9, but a couple holes in I got pretty tired of walking and feet started to hurt, and concentration level started to sag. Made some dumb course management decisions and shot 44 which I can live with paired with the 39 from Friday for an 83.

Sunday morning went to hit balls to try to figure out where my swing was, and how to get it back to Wednesday's form, and actually didn't make any progress. Then, 15 minutes later on the first tee, like magic, the swing came back. Don't understand how or why, but I destroyed my drive on the 475 yard par 5, and had 120 yards in from there. 3 putt par :/  Things progressed from there, wound up with a personal best 76 on 2 double bogeys, 3 bogeys, and 3 birdies.

How are everyone's local courses? We have one down here (county course that I played on Friday and Sunday) that is very, very burnt out and dry. I think they have stopped watering the fairways altogether. Greens are in good shape, but it doesn't look pretty. Meanwhile, 6 miles away at another county course (same county, too), the course is in very good shape considering the weather. Fairways still green. Courses are similarly styled, pretty open, some trees but not too many. We couldn't figure it out.


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## SkiDork (Aug 16, 2010)

Analysis please:

My son had gotten Golf For Dummies (DVD) so I watched it the other day.

I've always had somewhat of a slice.  So in the video Gary McCord says to cure a slice you turn your back to the target (or as much as you can turn) and hit that way.  I believe this is only a drill, not a new way to hit the ball.

Well, we were at the driving range the other day and for kicks I tried this.  I turned myself about 45 - 55 degrees to the right (I'm a righty) and hit that way.  HOLY CRAP!  I can hit the ball straight and far.  No slice whatsoever.  I was driving 250 yards this way.  Also my long irons were looking like great shots too (something I've always had trouble with).  I told my son, maybe I should just hit this way from now on.

Well, here's the question:  How am I supposed to take that and bring it back to a regular stance?  Or should I just hit that way all the time?


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> Yeah i thought he took that like a stand up guy -- had to be a very tough moment , but his CLASS came shining thru -- Good on Him . BTW those  was some recovery shots he made on the last couple of holes . Man THAT course was awesome and tougher than hell



Honestly, I'm not sure I could've done the same thing, would like to think so, but don't know. Think I may have been a little "verbal" about things......not any the officials, but at the situation. The whole thing stinks, I understand the rule, he broke the rule, he knows he did, but how the hell was he to know he was in a bunker when 25 people were standing in it with him!!!????


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 16, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure I could've done the same thing, would like to think so, but don't know. Think I may have been a little "verbal" about things......not any the officials, but at the situation. The whole thing stinks, I understand the rule, he broke the rule, he knows he did, but how the hell was he to know he was in a bunker when 25 people were standing in it with him!!!????



Campster   I Farkin KNOW what ur sayin !!  Damn how in blazes was that spot a damn bunker???  I was frankly AMAZED  both by the call and the way he responded . I admire his composure and applaud it  as a classy move .  BTW how much $$$ did THAT call cost him ??


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## tjf67 (Aug 16, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> Campster   I Farkin KNOW what ur sayin !!  Damn how in blazes was that spot a damn bunker???  I was frankly AMAZED  both by the call and the way he responded . I admire his composure and applaud it  as a classy move .  BTW how much $$$ did THAT call cost him ??




Between 600k and a million. 


At the time it did not look like a bunker.  When they showed the replay it did in fact look like one.   That is a big OOPS.


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

Warp Daddy said:


> Campster   I Farkin KNOW what ur sayin !!  Damn how in blazes was that spot a damn bunker???  I was frankly AMAZED  both by the call and the way he responded . I admire his composure and applaud it  as a classy move .  BTW how much $$$ did THAT call cost him ??





tjf67 said:


> Between 600k and a million.
> 
> 
> At the time it did not look like a bunker.  When they showed the replay it did in fact look like one.   That is a big OOPS.



I would say TJ is correct w/ the $$$$ amount. It is a bunker, BUT why the hell did the PGA allow people to stand in it, yes, it was outside the ropes, but was trampled beyond recogniton so I understand how he never thought he was in a bunker. I feel bad for the kid---that's all. The PGA made the correct call, he took it like a man and will play better golf because of it.


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## drjeff (Aug 16, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> I would say TJ is correct w/ the $$$$ amount. It is a bunker, BUT why the hell did the PGA allow people to stand in it, yes, it was outside the ropes, but was trampled beyond recogniton so I understand how he never thought he was in a bunker. I feel bad for the kid---that's all. The PGA made the correct call, he took it like a man and will play better golf because of it.



As I was waiting to tee off this morning, I was talking with my course superintendent about Dustin Johnson's incident yesterday.  As my course super put it(he's a 3 handicap, mega golf historian BTW), "when I first saw him in there, I was thinking bunker immediately, then I also realized that if I ever presented a bunker to you guys (the members at my course) for play that was in that condition,  it would be my last day working here!"

IMHO, the PGA Rules officials botched that one bigtime, with NOT having any bunker that was outside the gallery ropes and NOT maintained during the tourney designated as a waste area.  And my guess is for years to come, folks won't remember that Martin Kaymer won the 2010 PGA, but that Dustin Johnson got screwed by a BAD local ruling


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 16, 2010)

drjeff said:


> As I was waiting to tee off this morning, I was talking with my course superintendent about Dustin Johnson's incident yesterday.  As my course super put it(he's a 3 handicap, mega golf historian BTW), "when I first saw him in there, I was thinking bunker immediately, then I also realized that if I ever presented a bunker to you guys (the members at my course) for play that was in that condition,  it would be my last day working here!"
> 
> IMHO, the PGA Rules officials botched that one bigtime, with NOT having any bunker that was outside the gallery ropes and NOT maintained during the tourney designated as a waste area.  And my guess is for years to come, folks won't remember that Martin Kaymer won the 2010 PGA, but that Dustin Johnson got screwed by a BAD local ruling




Doc -- ur probably right on THAT score


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

drjeff said:


> As I was waiting to tee off this morning, I was talking with my course superintendent about Dustin Johnson's incident yesterday.  As my course super put it(he's a 3 handicap, mega golf historian BTW), "when I first saw him in there, I was thinking bunker immediately, then I also realized that if I ever presented a bunker to you guys (the members at my course) for play that was in that condition,  it would be my last day working here!"
> 
> IMHO, the PGA Rules officials botched that one bigtime, with NOT having any bunker that was outside the gallery ropes and NOT maintained during the tourney designated as a waste area.  And my guess is for years to come, folks won't remember that Martin Kaymer won the 2010 PGA, but that Dustin Johnson got screwed by a BAD local ruling



I understand AND agree with you, BUT the PGA had very specific rules in place (all over the place in fact) pointing out that:

1. Bunkers: All areas of the course that were designed and built as sand bunkers will be played as bunkers (hazards), whether or not they have been raked. This will mean that many bunkers positioned outside of the ropes, as well as some areas of bunkers inside the ropes, close to the rope line, will likely include numerous footprints, heel prints and tire tracks during the play of the Championship. Such irregularities of surface are a part of the game and no free relief will be available form these conditions.

With that in place I say the PGA DID make the right call, but I hope they change the rule for tourneys played there in the future....

PS--our super would be gone too!!!


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## jaywbigred (Aug 16, 2010)

The Dustin Johnson incident got us talking about this at the course yesterday, and it got me to thinking: what is really the point of the rule against grounding your club in a bunker? I mean, MAYBE I can see the logic behind a rule disallowing practice swings that make any kind of impact against the sand; it would give the player (arguably unfair) information about the density and moisture of the sand which he could use to judge his real stroke by. But a penalty for grounding of the Dustin Johnson type, no swing, just placing the club on the sand prior to and at address, that seems draconian, and no one could give me a proper explanation for the genesis of the rule.

And don't even try the argument "that has always been the rule so it should continue to be." Rules in sports are adapted all the time, and as the game evolves, the equipment evolves, course design evolves, etc...so should the rules, where necessary. 

The last issue I have, and there may be a definite answer to this, is how do you know where a bunker ends? For example, at our county courses, which are generally good, we do have an issue where you can tell at certain points that you are in the bunker, but then there is an area "on the edge" that has a sandy base but lots of grass growing out of it too. When you hit your shot from there, you may have such a sandy base that you need to play it like a bunker shot. Other times, the sand isn't very deep and you can chip or pitch it like it was in the rough or on hardpan or the like. If I can't tell whether I am in a bunker or not, absent a posted local rule (as there was during the PGA), what is the default rule??


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> The Dustin Johnson incident got us talking about this at the course yesterday, and it got me to thinking: what is really the point of the rule against grounding your club in a bunker? I mean, MAYBE I can see the logic behind a rule disallowing practice swings that make any kind of impact against the sand; it would give the player (arguably unfair) information about the density and moisture of the sand which he could use to judge his real stroke by. But a penalty for grounding of the Dustin Johnson type, no swing, just placing the club on the sand prior to and at address, that seems draconian, and no one could give me a proper explanation for the genesis of the rule.
> 
> And don't even try the argument "that has always been the rule so it should continue to be." Rules in sports are adapted all the time, and as the game evolves, the equipment evolves, course design evolves, etc...so should the rules, where necessary.
> 
> The last issue I have, and there may be a definite answer to this, is how do you know where a bunker ends? For example, at our county courses, which are generally good, we do have an issue where you can tell at certain points that you are in the bunker, but then there is an area "on the edge" that has a sandy base but lots of grass growing out of it too. When you hit your shot from there, you may have such a sandy base that you need to play it like a bunker shot. Other times, the sand isn't very deep and you can chip or pitch it like it was in the rough or on hardpan or the like. If I can't tell whether I am in a bunker or not, absent a posted local rule (as there was during the PGA), what is the default rule??



The reason for not being able to ground your club is to NOT be able to improve your lie, or being able to "test" the surface--- How firm, wet, loose, grainy etc, etc.

As for local courses, or any course-----anytime there is question of proper play one should consult with playing partners or officials. If no agreement can be reached one shopuld play the ball as it lies, then play another ball (however you feel it shpould be played) , record both scores then at the end of the round consult the rule book or the local PGA pro for proper scoring/ruling.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 16, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> The reason for not being able to ground your club is to NOT be able to improve your lie, or being able to "test" the surface--- How firm, wet, loose, grainy etc, etc.


 I fail to see how grounding you club, in the way Johnson did it (without any swinging motion), could either improve his lie or allow him to test the surface in any valuable way. As I said earlier "I can see the logic behind a rule disallowing practice swings that make any kind of impact against the sand; it would give the player (arguably unfair) information about the density and moisture of the sand which he could use to judge his real stroke by." 

In other words, I do not see why the rule couldn't be rewritten to say something like "A player whose ball has come to rest in a sand bunker may ground his club prior to and at address only if such grounding in no way effects his lie. If such grounding effects the player's lie, he will be assessed a two stroke penalty. Additionally, any swinging motion or grounding of the club which results in an impact being made with the sand is strictly prohibited and shall result in a two stroke penalty."

I do not see how a non-swinging grounding of the club creates any kind of significant advantage for the player. I am almost certain it would do nothing to improve most player's sand game. All it would do would be to reduce the draconian nature of golf's rules, many of which were established long ago for unknown reason.



campgottagopee said:


> As for local courses, or any course-----anytime there is question of proper play one should consult with playing partners or officials. If no agreement can be reached one shopuld play the ball as it lies, then play another ball (however you feel it shpould be played) , record both scores then at the end of the round consult the rule book or the local PGA pro for proper scoring/ruling.



So how would this work??????? My ball is on the amorphous edge of a bunker. There is some sand, and there is a bunch of grass growing out of it. There is absolutely no way to tell where the bunker ends and the rough begins. Can I ground my club? I'm going to play the ball as it lies either way, so I don't see how your answer addresses the issue. Playing a second ball doesn't really accomplish anything. To me, the decision has to be made before I play the first ball.


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> I fail to see how grounding you club, in the way Johnson did it (without any swinging motion), could either improve his lie or allow him to test the surface in any valuable way. As I said earlier "I can see the logic behind a rule disallowing practice swings that make any kind of impact against the sand; it would give the player (arguably unfair) information about the density and moisture of the sand which he could use to judge his real stroke by."
> 
> In other words, I do not see why the rule couldn't be rewritten to say something like "A player whose ball has come to rest in a sand bunker may ground his club prior to and at address only if such grounding in no way effects his lie. If such grounding effects the player's lie, he will be assessed a two stroke penalty. Additionally, any swinging motion or grounding of the club which results in an impact being made with the sand is strictly prohibited and shall result in a two stroke penalty."
> 
> ...



If I were your playing partner I would say yes you could ground your club. If there was a disagreement a official would have to come over (in local case a pga pro) and give a ruling. Again, in Dustin's case yesterday I had know idea he was in a bunker----noboday did except the officials and that part of it stinks. His caddy should've read the rules sheet and grabbed an official be4 Dustin even got there. That's there friggin job.

Actually, the rules of golf wre designed to "protect" the field, or have a level playing field. As players it also our duty to "protect" the filed by enforcing the rules if we see them broken. Many time the rules of golf will actualy help a player---look at Bubba Watson yesterday on the 18th. I think he made a mistake by dropping his third shot down in that hollow when he could've taken relief on the other side of the creek almost in the fairway.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 16, 2010)

Check this explanation out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/golf/news/story?id=5468051

Wow. That is totally effed. So he was basically penalized because he was on TV. It really begs the question as to how equitably this rule was enforced. How many untelevised swings missed such close scrutiny? If we had video of every swing Bubba Watson and Martin Kaymer took, might we find something similar? Let's see 1000-1200 "bunkers", something around 30,800 total strokes (70 players who made the cut with let's say an average of 290 strokes, plus another 70 who were cut with an average of let's say 150 strokes), only, what, maybe a few dozen TV cameras, limited coverage times...how many violations of this rule do you think were missed?


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## campgottagopee (Aug 16, 2010)

Great article----i find it interesting that Dustin asked for a ruling on 14 about if he was in a bunker or not, he wasn't so grounding and practice swings were allowed. The official also asked him if he needed anything be4 he hit that shot on 18, all he said was he needed the crowd moved. Obviuosly the confusion comes from him being so far off line----who the hell puts a bunker out there anyway---Pete Dye is a sick effer!!!

I'm sure there were rules infractions that weren't caught, BUT not knowingly---those guys don't cheat PERIOD.


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## tjf67 (Aug 16, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> Great article----i find it interesting that Dustin asked for a ruling on 14 about if he was in a bunker or not, he wasn't so grounding and practice swings were allowed. The official also asked him if he needed anything be4 he hit that shot on 18, all he said was he needed the crowd moved. Obviuosly the confusion comes from him being so far off line----who the hell puts a bunker out there anyway---Pete Dye is a sick effer!!!
> 
> I'm sure there were rules infractions that weren't caught, BUT not knowingly---those guys don't cheat PERIOD.



When you saw it live you could not see it was a bunker with all the people in it.  Then they all wanted to stay close to get a good view.  The caddie needs a kick in the ass.  Stevo or Bones would have never missed it.

Golfers don't cheat intentionaly.  To here it mentioned makes me wonder.... I called myself out for hitting my partners ball. No one but him and I knew.  Cost us 64 dollars and I felt like an idiot but thems are the brreaks


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## drjeff (Aug 16, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> I fail to see how grounding you club, in the way Johnson did it (without any swinging motion), could either improve his lie or allow him to test the surface in any valuable way. As I said earlier "I can see the logic behind a rule disallowing practice swings that make any kind of impact against the sand; it would give the player (arguably unfair) information about the density and moisture of the sand which he could use to judge his real stroke by."
> 
> In other words, I do not see why the rule couldn't be rewritten to say something like "A player whose ball has come to rest in a sand bunker may ground his club prior to and at address only if such grounding in no way effects his lie. If such grounding effects the player's lie, he will be assessed a two stroke penalty. Additionally, any swinging motion or grounding of the club which results in an impact being made with the sand is strictly prohibited and shall result in a two stroke penalty."
> 
> ...



The problem s there will be many folks who will stretch the rule, if grounding was allowed.  There would be that bunker with really soft sand in it where the "ethically shaky" guy playing a $2 nassau with his friends, and is already 2 down, would manage to ground his club in a ay that would clear the sand out behind the ball, essentially teeing the ball up, after all, a bunker is intended to be a slight penalty for a shot not struck as well as it could have been.

As for the amorphous edge of a bunker scenario. When in doubt, assume you're in, since if you play the ball like it's IN the bunker, but in reality it wasn't in the bunker, you DON'T incur a penalty stroke, whereas if you assume it's out of the bunker, but is actually in the bunker and  play that ball like it's out of the bunker, you've just incurred a penalty stroke.


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## midd (Aug 16, 2010)

if there's a .01% chance a ball is lying in a bunker almost every other tour pro errs on the side of caution and doesn't ground their club. faldo even made specific mention of this, asking why johnson even risked it.  

johnson and his caddy screwed up royally.  100% on them.  his initial response wasn't that he wasn't in a bunker, it was that he didn't think he grounded the club.  He knew 100% that he grounded the club.  

as for the advantage, I can see plenty of advantage gained by simply grounding the club in a bunker.  displaces the sand directly behind the ball and creates a tee-like scenario.  absolutely gives you more ball to hit cleanly. 

also, as for "missed" penalties unseen by the tv cameras, the number of potential opportunities is mitigated by two factors.  1) as campgottagopee mentioned, these guys don't cheat and 2) johnson hits the ball a mile and was a mile offline with that shot.  he and bubba were two of the few in the field capable of bringing those bunkers into play.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 17, 2010)

drjeff said:


> The problem s there will be many folks who will stretch the rule, if grounding was allowed.  There would be that bunker with really soft sand in it where the "ethically shaky" guy playing a $2 nassau with his friends, and is already 2 down, would manage to ground his club in a ay that would clear the sand out behind the ball, essentially teeing the ball up, after all, a bunker is intended to be a slight penalty for a shot not struck as well as it could have been.


 I really disagree with this. Golf is a game predicated on self-scoring and honesty. There are myriad rules that require honesty and can be "Stretched" by a less than honest player: as I draw an imaginary line from OB stake to OB stake, is my ball in or out? I'm taking a drop, is this spot really no closer to the hole? Is this really 2 club lengths? I'm in a lateral hazard, is this really where my ball crossed into the hazard? And so on. I think this rule would just be in that same category. If you improve your lie by grounding your club, it's a penalty. Otherwise, ground away (NO SWINGING). Take the draconian strictness out of it. If the golf course construction ethos is going to be embodied by course design that includes an average of 56 bunkers per hole (1000 bunkers, 18 holes), the rules need to reflect the reality of the evolution of the sport, imo.

I would also add that in a greenside bunker, creating a "tee" like effect in the bunker wouldn't be much of an advantage given the physics of a bunker shot require there to be a nice patch of sand behind the ball. Creating a tee would cause you to clip the ball first which is usually a disaster scenario, and thus I am not convinced it would really be an advantage. 

Maybe it would help in a fairway bunker, I will have to try it during practice. I am not sure though.



drjeff said:


> As for the amorphous edge of a bunker scenario. When in doubt, assume you're in, since if you play the ball like it's IN the bunker, but in reality it wasn't in the bunker, you DON'T incur a penalty stroke, whereas if you assume it's out of the bunker, but is actually in the bunker and  play that ball like it's out of the bunker, you've just incurred a penalty stroke.


 Agreed, if any kind of stakes were involved, that's how you'd have to play it. Unless they changed the pointless rule.



campgottagopee said:


> Pete Dye is a sick effer!!!


 Hahaha! Agreed!



campgottagopee said:


> I'm sure there were rules infractions that weren't caught, BUT not knowingly---those guys don't cheat PERIOD.


 I don't see the distinction. I don't think DJ was cheating either, I think it was an honest mistake by him and his caddie. The fact that other players may have grounded their clubs unknowingly and gotten away with it does not make it somehow fair. DJ was subject to much closer scrutiny than most other players in the field, and that is really a shame, bc fairness of this variety is exactly what golf is supposed to be about.

We were talking about this in the office, and if each group has a rules official with them, it really should be his decision alone on each shot. If he misses the call, like he did here, then that should be the end of it. You can't have what amounts to selective video replay. Totally unfair.



midd said:


> also, as for "missed" penalties unseen by the tv cameras, the number of potential opportunities is mitigated by two factors.  1) as campgottagopee mentioned, these guys don't cheat and 2) johnson hits the ball a mile and was a mile offline with that shot.  he and bubba were two of the few in the field capable of bringing those bunkers into play.



I am not sure how 1) mitigates anything, as I mentioned above. Just because they don't cheat doesn't mean they don't mistakingly break the rules. This is not hockey. The rules are complicated and often open to interpretation. They are often self enforced. DJ was the victim of his own success, as his every move was being followed. Many, many other golfers were not, and its an almost certainty that the rules were not enforced equitably upon the whole field. In a major professional sport, that seems very unfair.

2) Wow - that is such a shitty argument, and I keep hearing hints of it and it really ruffles my feathers. This is an argument I deal with constantly from people I play with. That DJ or Bubba or any other player who hits it far somehow deserves the penalty for being off line is ridiculous. He hit the ball far, and he hit it offline, yes. Did he hit it out of bounds? No. Did he hit it in the drink or in some other hazard? No. The ball was 100% in play. He hit it in a bunker, and he was the victim of a draconian rule that, imo, doesn't make sense given the way the course is designed. I don't see how his distance has ANYTHING to do with it. Could have happened to any player in the field given the number of bunkers. They were EVERYWHERE. Long, short, medium. When people make these kind of arguments, my only guess is they are jealous or angry at how far someone like DJ can hit it. 

Anyway, I am not convinced. To me, DJ is an honest player, he was not cheating, and he was the victim of his own success bc that success down the stretch of the back nine put his every shot on TV, and the result was the inequitable application of a draconian rule that serves very little purpose, if any. I agree it was the correct call, given the way the rule is written, but that doesn't mean it is a good rule or that it was applied in a fair way.


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## midd (Aug 17, 2010)

easy there big hitter, must be quite the cross to bear on the course.

I was simply noting that the entire field wasn't capable of bringing those trampled bunkers into play.  Thus, the likelihood of a misunderstanding taking place is slim.  There weren't thousands of opportunities for cheating/misunderstanding like you mentioned above. The great number of bunkers were inside the ropes, or not so far outside as to be in such crappy shape as the one Johnson hit out of on 18. 

I'm also of the belief that these guys ALWAYS err on the side of caution.   

if he was being perfectly honest, why was his initial response that he didn't think he grounded the club?  His honest answer would have been, "of course I did, I wasn't hitting from a bunker."


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## tjf67 (Aug 17, 2010)

We were talking about this in the office, and if each group has a rules official with them, it really should be his decision alone on each shot. If he misses the call, like he did here, then that should be the end of it. You can't have what amounts to selective video replay. Totally unfair.



The rules official did not miss the call. He pointed out the error. They are like well behaved children at a dinner party,  they dont speak unless spoken to.  If he were asked he would have pointed out that it was a trap.


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## drjeff (Aug 17, 2010)

The bottomline is this was a result of a local rule thta the PGA Officials put in place prior to the championship.  They're perfectly fine to do so, and apparently they had it well marked (the local rule).  The reality is though, and I think that anyone whose been to a PGA Tour event can attest to this, is that the ground "outside" the ropes gets trashed, both interms of being torn up and covered with trash.  And had DJ's ball come to rest say inside of an empty plastic cup, then as the local rule was written, he would have been playing his 3rd out of that cup.  

Playing out of a gallery area is fine, but at Whistling Straits, with all 900+ bunkers that Pete Dye put there,  I strongly feel that the PGA Rules officials botched that local rule for playing a non maintained bunker outside the gallery ropes as a bunker and not a waste area.  Even having seen the replaying a bunch of times, the reality is the sand in that "trap" looked to have a similar consistency after being trampled all week, as that of a dirt cart path, which as we all know is something that you're entitled to take free relief withing 2 club lengths, no closer to the hole, from if you so choose.  Does a PGA tour pro need that kind of relief a "bunker" like that, IMHO, no.  But atleast for the fairness of the championship designate those non maintained bunkers as a waste area, so the next time it happens, we won't have to see a replay of someone hitting out of a plastic cup, or off a hamburger wrapper, etc.

And my strong hunch is that when the PGA returns there in 5 years for the 2015 PGA Championship and then again in 2020 for the Ryder Cup, that it will be a local rule that bunkers outside the gallery ropes are to be played as a waste area.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 17, 2010)

midd said:


> easy there big hitter, must be quite the cross to bear on the course.


 The sarcasm is not appreciated. It IS incredibly frustrating. Other golfers are constantly picking up my ball, moving my ball, etc.. playing partners who I am not that familiar with do not offer any help in looking for wayward shots, even though I constantly help them find their's (something I always do, bc I know how frustrating it is to lose a ball in bounds). Other playing partners, groups behind us, and even starters repeatedly urge you to hit when you know the group in front of you is not out of range yet. It really effects the way the game is played and how enjoyable it is.



midd said:


> I was simply noting that the entire field wasn't capable of bringing those trampled bunkers into play.  Thus, the likelihood of a misunderstanding taking place is slim.


 He was attempting a 233 yard 4 iron on a 500 yard par 4. That means his tee shot went approximately 267 yards, give or take a few yards for the angle. That is not an elite distance. Granted, his shot was wide of the target, but if you look at any of the overhead shots of the spot where he hit, you can see that there are similar spots 40 yards in front of and behind where he was. His predicament had nothing to do with his length, and everything to do with his inaccuracy. 



midd said:


> There weren't thousands of opportunities for cheating/misunderstanding like you mentioned above. The great number of bunkers were inside the ropes, or not so far outside as to be in such crappy shape as the one Johnson hit out of on 18.


  I think this reasoning is incorrect; given there are over 1000 bunkers, the great number of them cannot be "inside the ropes". They fill almost all the space between every hole. Further, the course was designed to include 2 distinct types of bunkers, 1 being the classic, green or fairway side bunker we all know and love, and the other being the more modern "waste bunker" which are always unraked, regardless of whether there are galleries present or not. The general rule for waste bunkers is that you are allowed to ground your club, but the local rules adopted for the tournament stated otherwise, which is why DJ got in trouble, and why I think there were probably multiple other violations of this course-specific rule. Many other golfers are on record as stating they didn't know the rule and didn't bother to read the sheet (their fault to be sure), which again would lead to the likelihood that this rule was violated elsewhere.





midd said:


> if he was being perfectly honest, why was his initial response that he didn't think he grounded the club?  His honest answer would have been, "of course I did, I wasn't hitting from a bunker."


 You have a point here. But I think it's easily explained. He is on the 18th hole of a major and being asked in front of tens of thousands if he "grounded his club in a bunker"; everyone knows the rule, so a knee jerk response of "grounded my club in a bunker? I don't think so" would make sense, especially for someone that didn't realize they were even in a bunker (understandably, imo).



tjf67 said:


> The rules official did not miss the call. He pointed out the error. They are like well behaved children at a dinner party,  they dont speak unless spoken to.  If he were asked he would have pointed out that it was a trap.



The rules official with the group, David Price, did not see him ground the club. That is what I meant when I said he "missed the call." The rules violation was caught by another rules official watching on TV who then radioed to Price. To me, that is selective video review, and unfair. 

"Price said he went up to Johnson as he was preparing to hit his second shot and asked him if he needed anything. Johnson replied that he needed the crowd moved to the right, so Price went to make sure that was being done and then waited on the fairway. He never saw Johnson ground his club."

You are correct that Johnson (or his caddie) could have asked, and hindsight says they should have, but how would you know to ask if you hadn't read the rules sheet? There mistake was not reading the rules sheet (and a big one, obviously). Everything else that happened is completely understandable, imo.


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## drjeff (Aug 17, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> He was attempting a 233 yard 4 iron on a 500 yard par 4. That means his tee shot went approximately 267 yards, give or take a few yards for the angle. That is not an elite distance. Granted, his shot was wide of the target, but if you look at any of the overhead shots of the spot where he hit, you can see that there are similar spots 40 yards in front of and behind where he was. His predicament had nothing to do with his length, and everything to do with his inaccuracy.



Not to give you a hard time, but that 267ish poke was UPHILL and into a 15mph or so wind.  Dustin Johnson is known on tour as one of the longer hitters out there.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 17, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Not to give you a hard time, but that 267ish poke was UPHILL and into a 15mph or so wind.  Dustin Johnson is known on tour as one of the longer hitters out there.



Agreed, he is in the top 5 for driving distance I am sure. The point was that he was in a spot that a lot of other guys, not just the elite hitters, could reach. I mean, even the middle of the pack driving distance guys can bomb it. Those guys are so good.


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## jaywbigred (Aug 23, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> My hot streak continues. Played 9 holes on Friday after work and I actually lost my swing. Still scrambled around for a 39. Went to the range afterwards, and couldn't quite find the swing again. Played Saturday morning and it was basically more of the same for the first 15 holes (shot 42 on the front), then the swing came back (16th hole = second longest drive of my life!!!!!!) and wound up with a 79. Managed to break 80 because I had 0 blow up holes. Nothing bigger than a 5. Weather was nice so we decided to play an extra 9, but a couple holes in I got pretty tired of walking and feet started to hurt, and concentration level started to sag. Made some dumb course management decisions and shot 44 which I can live with paired with the 39 from Friday for an 83.
> 
> Sunday morning went to hit balls to try to figure out where my swing was, and how to get it back to Wednesday's form, and actually didn't make any progress. Then, 15 minutes later on the first tee, like magic, the swing came back. Don't understand how or why, but I destroyed my drive on the 475 yard par 5, and had 120 yards in from there. 3 putt par :/  Things progressed from there, wound up with a personal best 76 on 2 double bogeys, 3 bogeys, and 3 birdies.
> 
> How are everyone's local courses? We have one down here (county course that I played on Friday and Sunday) that is very, very burnt out and dry. I think they have stopped watering the fairways altogether. Greens are in good shape, but it doesn't look pretty. Meanwhile, 6 miles away at another county course (same county, too), the course is in very good shape considering the weather. Fairways still green. Courses are similarly styled, pretty open, some trees but not too many. We couldn't figure it out.



More of the hot streak.

Played Friday after work as the sun was setting. Got 11 holes in, was 4 par over when it go too dark to continue.

Played Saturday morning, shot 78 (par 71) on a triple bogey, a double bogey, 4 bogeys, and 2 birdies. I think my mental game is starting to develop/adjust for playing better. I "felt" like I didn't play that well. I hit 8 GIRs (3 front, 5 back), but I also got up and down from an impossible spot on the 1st hole (had 187 to the green on a par 5, pulled a 7 iron left and it landed hole high--on the cart path--and kicked really high and far passed the green, into the stream behind the green. Took my drop, hit an impossible pitch through the tiniest holes in the trees, then made about a 35 footer for par), and from less than impossible spots on 7, 8 and 9 (2 of those putts were over 7-9 foot range, so the putter was helping a lot). I tripled the 4th hole - yanked the drive left, but everyone in the group thought it was safe. Well, with the dry ground and the fact that apparently I hit in the only gap in the 15 foot tall bushes that line the course driveway, apparently I trickled onto the road. There was my ball, lying 1 foot on the pavement, and its staked OB, even though the course is on both sides of the driveway. I guess they stake it OB to prevent people from play across the road, which makes sense I guess. I couldn't go back and rehit, group behind us was approaching the tee, so I went and dropped a ball in the right rough, being honest about where I would have hit a re-teed drive. Hit the 4th one on the green and then promptly 3 putted, giving me a 7. Since the last revision, I am down to a 9.2 index, which I believe on this course, with a slope of 116, produces a course handicap of 9. Thus, if I am not mistaken, the max I can post for handicap purposes is a double bogey...so I guess I have to post a 77????? Didn't realize that til just now. Luckily, I haven't posted yet. Hmmm. 

Anyway, rest of the round was ho hum. Didn't hit a single par 3 green, which is inexcusable, but every tee shot set up to be in between clubs, and somehow I managed to pick the wrong one each time. Doubled #15, which is a touch hole, from the middle of the fairway with 130 yds in. Inexcusable as well. When I got to the par 5 18th, I knew I needed a 5 to break 80, demolished my drive, had 181 in, which is in between clubs for me. Decided short was the better miss, hit 8 iron, just landed on the front of the green, spun off into the rough, chipped to 9 inches for the birdie. Nice way to finish!

Hoping to keep this up! Regardless of how I score, I find that golf is more enjoyable for me, when I hit the sweet spot with my drives, and make a few putts. Luckily, those things tend to help scoring, and then the only other thing I have to do is stay disciplined and count those GIRs.


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## campgottagopee (Aug 23, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> I don't see the distinction. I don't think DJ was cheating either, I think it was an honest mistake by him and his caddie. The fact that other players may have grounded their clubs unknowingly and gotten away with it does not make it somehow fair*. DJ was subject to much closer scrutiny than most other players in the field*, and that is really a shame, bc fairness of this variety is exactly what golf is supposed to be about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Price one pays for leading a major tourney


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## campgottagopee (Aug 23, 2010)

jaywbigred said:


> The sarcasm is not appreciated. It IS incredibly frustrating. Other golfers are constantly picking up my ball, moving my ball, etc.. playing partners who I am not that familiar with do not offer any help in looking for wayward shots, even though I constantly help them find their's (something I always do, bc I know how frustrating it is to lose a ball in bounds). Other playing partners, groups behind us, and even starters repeatedly urge you to hit when you know the group in front of you is not out of range yet. It really effects the way the game is played and how enjoyable it is.
> .



You need to practice the Lee Trevino "No Hunt" rule....you no hunt for my ball, I no hunt for yours....makes it simple


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## jaywbigred (Aug 23, 2010)

campgottagopee said:


> You need to practice the Lee Trevino "No Hunt" rule....you no hunt for my ball, I no hunt for yours....makes it simple



Haha. Well, I just feel bad for a lot of people I play with. They don't watch where there ball goes. They don't wait for it to stop moving. Esp now, with hard, dry ground, a lot of people just watch it until the time at which it would normally stop rolling. But I keep my eye on it and watch it til it actually stops rolling. Then, when they can't find it, I usually can walk right to it and show them. They say "Oh, how'd it get way over here!??" And rather than say "this is where it ended up after the it kept rolling for another 10 seconds after you stopped watching," I just sigh and smile and shrug.


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## SKIQUATTRO (Aug 23, 2010)

Golf Lingo

 "The Mother In Law Shot":   one that looks great leaving


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## campgottagopee (Aug 27, 2010)

Nice to see Tiger back atop the leaderboard


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## jaywbigred (Sep 7, 2010)

After a 41-48(???) - 89 at Mt. Snow last weekend, a midweek 43 (had to submit a 42 though), a Saturday 82 and a Sunday 85, I thought maybe I was coming back to reality, score wise. Then yesterday I shot 76 from the tips (not super long, ~6500) at one of our local courses, w 9 GIRs. Go figure.


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## campgottagopee (Sep 8, 2010)

The Pro at my club had a hole-in-one during our skins game on Monday---still hangin' over today.


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