# Lift Accident Devils Head, WI



## evantrentful (Dec 17, 2009)

Apparently there was a massive failure in the drive wheel, resulting in a runaway line going backwards. -still developing

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11697187

Backwards Runaway 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8rXiN_Oys4&feature=player_embedded


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Dec 17, 2009)

Rollback is so incredibly dangerous.  Hopefully they'll crack down a bit on pre-ops inspection, particularly of the rollback prevention equipment (bullwheel brakes, drop dogs, etc.).  If I'm ever on a lift that rolls back for more than a couple of seconds, or starts to gain backward speed......... I'm jumping quick as I can.  If you watch that clip on youtube of the NSAA video, you'll see why.  BTW... that little clip is from a $250 NSAA video.  Surprised it's still kicking around on the internet.


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 17, 2009)

Sounds just like the event from the "intentional" destructive test....never thought it would actually happen.

More suprising is that from appearances on their website at least, this isn't some struggling place that you'd expect to be possibly behind on maintaining their equipment that badly...


----------



## evantrentful (Dec 17, 2009)

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/79583412.html

In that article it states that the lift operators werent able to stop the lift immediately (which might imply that they were able to stop it, not that lift itself finally came to a stop). From the first article I posted they make mention of the smell of burning rubber so it sounds like they were able to engage to bull wheel brake, but for whatever reason it continued to rollback even under friction

It's stuff like this that scares the crap out of me riding on Hunter west side lifts. West Mountain also has some sketchy lifts


----------



## BushMogulMaster (Dec 18, 2009)

evantrentful said:


> From the first article I posted they make mention of the smell of burning rubber so it sounds like they were able to engage to bull wheel brake, but for whatever reason it continued to rollback even under friction




The only thing I can think of, if that is the case, would be a failed tension system.  If the lift lost tension, even with both bullwheel brakes applied and drop dogs in the bullwheel, a full load could probably cause the haul rope to move backward while the drive sheave remained stationary.  That would cause your burning rubber smell (friction from haul rope on the bullwheel liner).

Just speculation, though.  Need more details.


----------



## KevinF (Dec 18, 2009)

BushMogulMaster said:


> The only thing I can think of, if that is the case, would be a failed tension system.  If the lift lost tension, even with both bullwheel brakes applied and drop dogs in the bullwheel, a full load could probably cause the haul rope to move backward while the drive sheave remained stationary.  That would cause your burning rubber smell (friction from haul rope on the bullwheel liner).
> 
> Just speculation, though.  Need more details.



For those of us who haven't studied chairlift design, what's a drop dog?


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

KevinF said:


> For those of us who haven't studied chairlift design, what's a drop dog?



Basically a large chunk of metal designed to fall onto ramps on top of the bull wheel, or into the bull wheel itself to stop it from rolling backwards.


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

BushMogulMaster said:


> If I'm ever on a lift that rolls back for more than a couple of seconds, or starts to gain backward speed......... I'm jumping quick as I can.  If you watch that clip on youtube of the NSAA video, you'll see why.  BTW... that little clip is from a $250 NSAA video.  Surprised it's still kicking around on the internet.



After watching that video for the first time several years ago, that's been my plan too.  That's some scary scary stuff right there.


----------



## Trekchick (Dec 18, 2009)

There is a Bear on EpicSki who was on that chair.
See his post here.
http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/89328/scariest-chair-lift-ride-of-my-life#post_1162617


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

BushMogulMaster said:


> The only thing I can think of, if that is the case, would be a failed tension system.  If the lift lost tension, even with both bullwheel brakes applied and drop dogs in the bullwheel, a full load could probably cause the haul rope to move backward while the drive sheave remained stationary.  That would cause your burning rubber smell (friction from haul rope on the bullwheel liner).
> 
> Just speculation, though.  Need more details.



That sounds like a real possibility.  If the anti-rollback devices were all working properly it's about the only way I can think of something like that happening.  I'd really like to hear more details on this one.


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> There is a Bear on EpicSki who was on that chair.
> See his post here.
> http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/89328/scariest-chair-lift-ride-of-my-life#post_1162617



Thanks TC!

For those interested here's a clip of the video BMM mentioned:

Those chairs are loaded with weights to simulate people riding the lift.


----------



## Highway Star (Dec 18, 2009)

millerm277 said:


> Sounds just like the event from the "intentional" destructive test....never thought it would actually happen.
> 
> More suprising is that from appearances on their website at least, this isn't some struggling place that you'd expect to be possibly behind on maintaining their equipment that badly...


 
It can and does happen.  The main lift at the area I grew up at had a rollback some time in the early 90's.....most people jumped off and were ok, I think one person went around the wheel and had injuries.  

People figure out they need to jump rather quickly.....


----------



## wa-loaf (Dec 18, 2009)

Scary, I can see jumping if I'm on my own. Not sure what I would if you were riding with little kids. I guess toss them off yourself. You'd probably never get them on a lift again.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Thanks TC!
> 
> For those interested here's a clip of the video BMM mentioned:
> 
> Those chairs are loaded with weights to simulate people riding the lift.



Interesting

Would like to hear the background behind this test.  Obviously a lift slated to be replaced, so let's see how big of a disaster we can make.  

What area was the lift at in the video?


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Not sure what I would if you were riding with little kids. I guess toss them off yourself. You'd probably never get them on a lift again.



I was just contemplating the same thing... Scary thought.


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> Interesting
> 
> Would like to hear the background behind this test.  Obviously a lift slated to be replaced, so let's see how big of a disaster we can make.
> 
> What area was the lift at in the video?



That clip is part of a whole series of test that were performed.  I forget what area it was done at, out west somewhere IIRC.  It was definitely being replaced.

The tests were designed to see how certain safety devices would actually work if other devices had failed.  IIRC the rollback that occurred was not the intended test at that time.  Someone hit the wrong stop button (with other safety systems disengaged) and the lift very quickly reached terminal velocity.  They were actually able to repair the lift enough to conduct more of the intended tests the next day, which is pretty amazing in itself.

Ultimately they ended up catching the whole drive terminal on fire (on purpose), and then they pulled down some of the lift towers to see how they would fail (bend, shear off at the base, rip out the footings, etc..).  The whole video is really pretty cool.

I'm sure BMM has more insight into the testing behind the video, I've only watched the whole thing once a few years ago.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2009)

If Beavis and Butthead are skiers, that video would be a wet dream for them.  :lol:


----------



## evantrentful (Dec 18, 2009)

uhhhhhuhuhuh uhhhuhuhuh thath was pretty cool beavis

heres info on the nsaa lift destruction test
http://www.skilifts.org/old/chairlift_facts_eskimoliftdestruction.htm


----------



## bvibert (Dec 18, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> If Beavis and Butthead are skiers, that video would be a wet dream for them.  :lol:



Call me Beavis and/or Butthead then, I love that stuff...:dunce:


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2009)

bvibert said:


> Call me Beavis and/or Butthead then, I love that stuff...:dunce:



completely

I would've been there with a 12 Pack and some fireworks :lol:


----------



## Glenn (Dec 18, 2009)

Rolling backwards has got to be scary. A kid I raced with in highschool was on a lift when that happened. I want to say it was Brodie Mountain? This would have been early/mid 1990's.


----------



## mikestaple (Dec 18, 2009)

bvibert said:


> I was just contemplating the same thing... Scary thought.



I can't even imagine having to lift the bar and chuck my kids 20 feet down.  That ski resort is in a pretty big tourist area (Wisconsin Dells) and does ok (ex-pat Cheesehead here).  Lots of traffic on weekends.  I'm kinda surprised their lifts are ancient (as a poster above indicated).


----------



## SIKSKIER (Dec 18, 2009)

We had a rollback at Cannon while I was riding of all lifts,the newest.2 years ago we were on the Peabody detach when it stopped for quite a while.Twice when it attempted to start we went backwards about 50-100 feet.Not scary but a real weird feeling.We were all ready to jump to jump into that famous Cannon powder of hardpack!


----------



## Kerovick (Dec 18, 2009)

I run a lift and I'm terrified of a rollback.  Good thing it's rare.


----------



## abc (Dec 18, 2009)

"Rare"?

I never thought about it ever happening except one or twice altogether. 

Now I'm scared. Seems like it happens a lot more often than I thought!  Yeah I can see myself jumpping off a chair at certain spot. But from a chair going at 40mph???


----------



## millerm277 (Dec 19, 2009)

abc said:


> Now I'm scared. Seems like it happens a lot more often than I thought!  Yeah I can see myself jumpping off a chair at certain spot. But from a chair going at 40mph???



You watch the a chair like the one you're sitting on go horizontal and literally shatter and destroy itself, and I think you'll be taking your chances too with the fall.


----------



## redalienx11 (Dec 19, 2009)

i think that test was at winter park co.

as a liftie that is one of my worst nightmares- especially something like that that seems so out of control


----------



## abc (Dec 19, 2009)

millerm277 said:


> You watch the a chair like the one you're sitting on go horizontal and literally shatter and destroy itself, and I think you'll be taking your chances too with the fall.


Time to go pratice perfecting that switch landing!


----------



## billski (Dec 19, 2009)

I had to jump once.  Actually, my daughter slid off and I slipped trying to grab her, and clung on until I lost holding strength, from about 10 feet.  I wasn't worried about my injuries, but I was absolutely scared to death I was going to land on her, skis first.  I missed her head by inches.


----------



## jerryg (Dec 19, 2009)

On a couple of the HSQs at Heavenly there are actually signs that say the lift may operate in reverse. I recall being on one and it did roll back about 20 feet and I had not yet seen the signs. I was freaked out by it.


----------



## threecy (Dec 20, 2009)

To put things in perspective though, ski lifts are still one of the safest forms of transportation out there.  One is a heck of a lot more likely to have something happen while driving to the mountain, as compared to riding a lift.


----------



## jaywbigred (Dec 21, 2009)

This thread is bad for your mental health. We had a couple of longish delays (well, not THAT long, but long enough to produce tears form my 26 y/o gf because she got so cold) this past weekend at Mt. Snow, including a stop-start-stop pattern that repeated at least 4 times, and all I could think of was this thread. I was just waiting for it to start rolling back. Very scary stuff. But I have to assume its like sharks...scary, but unlikely.


----------



## bvibert (Dec 21, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> ...scary, but unlikely.



VERY unlikely.


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Dec 22, 2009)

Wasn't there also a detachable in Colorado some years ago where some individual chairs slid backwards on the rope and knocked other chairs off?


----------



## threecy (Dec 22, 2009)

ERJ-145CA said:


> Wasn't there also a detachable in Colorado some years ago where some individual chairs slid backwards on the rope and knocked other chairs off?



I believe you may be confusing a fixed grip bullwheel incident in Colorado with a detachable issue in Western Canada.


----------



## Glenn (Dec 22, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> This thread is bad for your mental health. We had a couple of longish delays (well, not THAT long, but long enough to produce tears form my 26 y/o gf because she got so cold) this past weekend at Mt. Snow, including a stop-start-stop pattern that repeated at least 4 times, and all I could think of was this thread. I was just waiting for it to start rolling back. Very scary stuff. But I have to assume its like sharks...scary, but unlikely.




Best investmet we made for ski gear....."heated boots". Does my wife still get cold? Sure. But it does make those really cold days a bit easier and allows her more runs before having to go inside.


----------



## Rambo (Dec 22, 2009)

threecy said:


> I believe you may be confusing a fixed grip bullwheel incident in Colorado with a detachable issue in Western Canada.



Seems those 2 incidents were both YAN lifts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_Engineering

"Potential problems with Yan lifts began to surface as early as 1985, when the upper bullwheel on the Teller lift at Keystone, Colorado literally fell off its axle. Faulty welding was blamed. Two people were killed and 47 injured."

"Yan detachable lifts were subject to a series of disastrous accidents, the most famous of which was on the Quicksilver lift at Whistler-Blackcomb Resort in British Columbia, Canada. The Quicksilver accident killed two and injured eight.[3]. The accident occurred when the emergency brake was pressed to help a skier who had fallen while unloading. A chair started sliding downhill and struck the next chair which got stuck on a tower."


----------



## jaywbigred (Dec 22, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Best investmet we made for ski gear....."heated boots". Does my wife still get cold? Sure. But it does make those really cold days a bit easier and allows her more runs before having to go inside.



Glenn, she's got em. She's skinny to begin with, and she has super narrow feet, so they get cold despite the heater sometimes, esp. towards the end of the day when the charge starts to weaken. Also, I think she was mumbling something about not having them fully charged, which doesn't help. That part is up to her. You can only lead a horse to water...

Given the situation, I decided to keep my thoughts (and the contents of this thread) to myself


----------



## bvibert (Dec 22, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> Given the situation, I decided to keep my thoughts (and the contents of this thread) to myself



Smart move!


----------



## ERJ-145CA (Dec 22, 2009)

Rambo said:


> Seems those 2 incidents were both YAN lifts.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_Engineering
> 
> ...



That was an intersting article, it seems to prove that you get what you pay for.


----------



## Glenn (Dec 22, 2009)

jaywbigred said:


> Glenn, she's got em. She's skinny to begin with, and she has super narrow feet, so they get cold despite the heater sometimes, esp. towards the end of the day when the charge starts to weaken. Also, I think she was mumbling something about not having them fully charged, which doesn't help. That part is up to her. You can only lead a horse to water...
> 
> Given the situation, I decided to keep my thoughts (and the contents of this thread) to myself



Sounds like she's built like my wife.  Don't forget those hand warmers too. I buy those in bulk at Wal-Mart. I took charge (ha! Get it? Sorry...) of the batteries on her boots. She leaves them on(after skiing) to make sure there discharged...I charge em' up before we head out the next time. I make sure they get the full 6 hours. It's a bit easier now that I have a set for myself.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 4, 2010)

From what I've read it sounds like the gear box failed, rendering the service brake useless.  Apparently the drop dog was rusted and/or not installed properly.  The was no mechanism to activate the emergency brake automatically, I guess the operator operated it too late.

I found this video:


----------



## wa-loaf (Jan 4, 2010)

Damn didn't know it was at night. That makes it scarier somehow.


----------



## bvibert (Jan 4, 2010)

wa-loaf said:


> Damn didn't know it was at night. That makes it scarier somehow.



I think it would be easier for me to jump off at night...


----------



## bvibert (Jan 4, 2010)

Found this on TGR, which is apparently from the Wisconsin Dept of Commerce



> Here is the full report from the Commerce Dept.:
> 
> Regarding the incident at Devil's Head Ski Resort on 12/17/09:
> 
> ...


----------

