# Beijing - 1st Olympics 100% man made snow



## deadheadskier (Feb 5, 2022)

I didn't know that.  









						All the Beijing snow is human-made -- a resource-intensive, 'dangerous' trend as planet warms | CNN
					

Natural snow is becoming less reliable for winter sports, which has led venues to lean more on artificial. But that comes at a cost.




					www.cnn.com
				




It appears it will get the job done, but you have to wonder how a decision was made that a place that only averages 7.8" of snow a year was a good location for the games.   I mean outside of the obvious corruption the Olympics are known for throughout history.


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## machski (Feb 5, 2022)

China has been pushing the growth of it's burgeoning ski industry heavily and they have built resorts close to the dense populations along their Eastern cities.  Unfortunately those are cold areas in the winter, just basically deserts.  The goods are way west of Beijing, too far to base the games in Beijing.  But I hear those resorts get hammered with snow and where you'd really want to go skiing in China.

All that said, they are building resorts near the Olympic venue.  My understanding is that venue will not become a resort and will stay as their official alpine training and maybe competition center.  But it won't become a public ski resort.  I guess a bit better than Sochi's post games history.


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## Mt_Wawasee (Feb 5, 2022)

Per the article, estimated 49 million gallons to produce snow. Last I heard Wachusett has pumped 70 millon.


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## FBGM (Feb 5, 2022)

Mt_Wawasee said:


> Per the article, estimated 49 million gallons to produce snow. Last I heard Wachusett has pumped 70 millon.


49 million is a made up number or only part of their area. They are way Fucking higher. 

Also IOC is almost as bad as Vail 

Also pour one out during half pipe for Tyson. Good buddy of mine who had been in China prepping all that pipe and park area for years till he got smoked on his scooter. He did the same for the Russian games. Rip


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## abc (Feb 5, 2022)

FBGM said:


> Also IOC is almost as bad as Vail


I often wonder if the IOC is even worse. Far worse.

They're not accountable to anyone!


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## Zermatt (Feb 5, 2022)

Why does it matter? They knew it was going to be this way but it's reliably cold so snowmaking was always the plan.


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## slatham (Feb 5, 2022)

I question accuracy of thread title. IIRC the 1980 Olympics at Whiteface had such poor snow that Hunter Mtn sent snowmaking equipment so they could run the races.

I also don't recall seeing much natural snow on the ground during the Olympics at Pyeongchang either.

Also, pet peeve, its NOT artificial. Artificial is plastic or some other substance. Its frozen water just like nature snow. So its man-made, or machine made, but its not artificial.


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## Zermatt (Feb 5, 2022)

slatham said:


> I question accuracy of thread title. IIRC the 1980 Olympics at Whiteface had such poor snow that Hunter Mtn sent snowmaking equipment so they could run the races.
> 
> I also don't recall seeing much natural snow on the ground during the Olympics at Pyeongchang either.
> 
> Also, pet peeve, its NOT artificial. Artificial is plastic or some other substance. Its frozen water just like nature snow. So its man-made, or machine made, but its not artificial.


I get it but at least Whiteface had the possibility of having natural snow. In these mountains in China it's literally a barren desert.


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## FBGM (Feb 5, 2022)

Zermatt said:


> Why does it matter? They knew it was going to be this way but it's reliably cold so snowmaking was always the plan.


Just woke people looking for something to complain about. And if you can put China/Climate/Danger in the same title you get clicks. Very annoying 

Skiers complaining the downhill course is bad because it’s man made snow. The fuck you think every other course is?!?!


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## FBGM (Feb 5, 2022)

Also for Whistler Olympics they were being snow in by helicopter. Talk about expensive and emissions and bad. But nope, that’s not on the agenda back then


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I mean outside of the obvious corruption the Olympics are known for throughout history.



You answered your own question; it's takes nothing less & nothing more.  It's a disgrace.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

Zermatt said:


> Why does it matter? *They knew it was going to be this way* but it's reliably cold so snowmaking was always the plan.



Correct, it's a total lie & disingenuous FUD on CNN's part pushing their left-wing climate agenda.  This one's so obvious it's insulting to the intelligence of even the mouth-breather's it's intended for.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

FBGM said:


> Skiers complaining the downhill course is bad because it’s man made snow. The fuck you think every other course is?!?!



A bit different though for these racers, because not only is the snow man-made, but it's in concert with very low temps, so it's like concrete.  Now add in the fact that this downhill track is as fast as the fastest hill they'll face on the FIS circuit, and you've got pretty scary racing conditions.  Do not fall.


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## Zermatt (Feb 5, 2022)

FBGM said:


> Just woke people looking for something to complain about. And if you can put China/Climate/Danger in the same title you get clicks. Very annoying
> 
> Skiers complaining the downhill course is bad because it’s man made snow. The fuck you think every other course is?!?!


Anybody know the last time an Olympic hockey game was played on a frozen pond?


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## Zermatt (Feb 5, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> A bit different though for these racers, because not only is the snow man-made, but it's in concert with very low temps, so it's like concrete.  Now add in the fact that this downhill track is as fast as the fastest hill they'll face on the FIS circuit, and you've got pretty scary racing conditions.  Do not fall.


What are the temps there? I noticed the biathlon athletes were dressed very warm, which is odd and had tape all over their faces.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 5, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Correct, it's a total lie & disingenuous FUD on CNN's part pushing their left-wing climate agenda.  This one's so obvious it's insulting to the intelligence of even the mouth-breather's it's intended for.



I definitely "see what CNN did there" in really just wanting to crowbar the climate change fear agenda.  

But my point in sharing was that I did find it interesting (if true) that this is the first Olympics where the skiing events are happening on 100% man-made snow.   

To an above posters point, there is always a majority of man made involved in probably every major downhill skiing competition from the last 50 years.   Not XC though I don't think.  Watching the biathalon right now and that's a bit more wild to me to know it's all snowmaking.

Cool they're pulling this off though.


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## Zermatt (Feb 5, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I definitely "see what CNN did there" in really just wanting to crowbar the climate change fear agenda.
> 
> But my point in sharing was that I did find it interesting (if true) that this is the first Olympics where the skiing events are happening on 100% man-made snow.
> 
> ...


Soldier Hollow in Utah doesn't get much snow. If it does it might last a few days. It's at 5500' in the rain shadow of the Wasatch.


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## FBGM (Feb 5, 2022)

Back to the 100% man made snow thing. This is the first? I find they surprising.

Even back when SLC had it. Every trail that had a ski or board event on had snowmaking and it was used. Also the x country area at solider hollow had man made. So does that make that all man made? No no because they had natural snowfall on top of the 100% man made?


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## machski (Feb 5, 2022)

Zermatt said:


> Soldier Hollow in Utah doesn't get much snow. If it does it might last a few days. It's at 5500' in the rain shadow of the Wasatch.


Well, it does have snowmaking but only on 5KM of trails


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

Zermatt said:


> Soldier Hollow in Utah doesn't get much snow. If it does it might last a few days.



Midway gets almost 7 feet of snow per year.  YOMV, but I think that's a pretty good bit for cross country tracks & refreshes.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 5, 2022)

FBGM said:


> Back to the 100% man made snow thing. This is the first? I find they surprising.
> 
> Even back when SLC had it. Every trail that had a ski or board event on had snowmaking and it was used. Also the x country area at solider hollow had man made. So does that make that all man made? No no because they had natural snowfall on top of the 100% man made?




That's what the article claims.  ALL of the skiing competition is being held on 100% man made snow.  Place only averages a wife's dream worth of natural in a good year.  It's just cold as shit apparently and somehow has massive amounts of water available for snowmaking even though it's a desert.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> It's just cold as shit apparently and somehow *has massive amounts of water available for snowmaking even though it's a desert.*



Is that true; I was wondering about that?  I was wondering if there's some odd geological thing going on underground, or if they're just trucking in millions of gallons of h2o at the cost of letting thousands of peasants starve.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 5, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Is that true; I was wondering about that?  I was wondering if there's some odd geological thing going on underground, or if they're just trucking in millions of gallons of h2o at the cost of letting thousands of peasants starve.



I don't know that to be true. I question if it's your last point too, but they obviously cranked out an insane amount of snow.  

The whole thing doesn't add up.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 5, 2022)

It's easier to move electricity long distances than an estimated 500m gallons of water.


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## JimG. (Feb 5, 2022)

lol not very climate friendly.

I've lost a lot of interest in the Olympics. Frankly the only events I really watch anymore are bobsled, luge, and skeleton. 

Those sliders are nuts. And it's a timed event...no judges. The winner is the winner.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 5, 2022)

Watching the girls snowboarding and there seems to be a lot of snow in the surrounding area. Doesn’t look entirely man made. Are we only talking skiing? The snowboard park looked to be in a ski area


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## abc (Feb 5, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> That's what the article claims.  ALL of the skiing competition is being held on 100% man made snow.  Place only averages a wife's dream worth of natural in a good year.  It's just cold as shit apparently and somehow has massive amounts of water available for snowmaking even though it's a desert.


What about Sochi and Whistler? 

They trucked in the snow, albeit natural ones, from somewhere else! Is that "better"?


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## BushMogulMaster (Feb 5, 2022)

FBGM said:


> 49 million is a made up number or only part of their area. They are way Fucking higher.



A recent WSJ story mentioned 2MM cubic meters of water, which is about 528MM gallons. That at least makes a bit more sense, as it should equal somewhere around 2,500 acre feet of snow depending on temps.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Watching the girls snowboarding and there seems to be a lot of snow in the surrounding area. Doesn’t look entirely man made. Are we only talking skiing? The snowboard park looked to be in a ski area



Supposedly it's entirely madmade.  I believe it too, because anything outside the camera's "intended" view is brown.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

JimG. said:


> lol not very climate friendly.
> 
> I've lost a lot of interest in the Olympics. Frankly the only events I really watch anymore are bobsled, luge, and skeleton.
> 
> Those sliders are nuts. And it's a timed event...no judges. The winner is the winner.



Dont forget ice hockey, cross country, and biathlon.   Those too are non-BS sports in addition to alpine.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 5, 2022)

abc said:


> Is that "better"?



Almost certainly (assuming you care about such things).


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## machski (Feb 6, 2022)

abc said:


> What about Sochi and Whistler?
> 
> They trucked in the snow, albeit natural ones, from somewhere else! Is that "better"?


Didn't think they trucked snow to Whistler for the Vancouver games, just Cypress where the tech and freestyle events were.  Whistler had natural for the games and while the very bottom was thin natural, they were able to lay down machine made to fill in.  Cypress lost almost all of their snow.  They actually helicoptered snow in as it was too warm to make enough to recover in time.

Sochi had snow as I recall, and they had stacked and tarped snow from the previous season to have snow to start working with for the games year.  What is worse with Sochi is that half the lifts they put in and terrain, got ripped out post games.  It's a shadow of what they built for the Olympics now.


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## abc (Feb 6, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Almost certainly (assuming you care about such things).


(yes, assuming one cares about such things)

what's so bad about making snow? (over helicoptering snow from another mountain)


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## fbrissette (Feb 6, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Is that true; I was wondering about that?  I was wondering if there's some odd geological thing going on underground, or if they're just trucking in millions of gallons of h2o at the cost of letting thousands of peasants starve.


Despite all of the  misinformation, my understanding is that most fo the water comes from a surface reservoir, roughly 100 miles away.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 6, 2022)

If they've got cold weather and snowmaking, drift'll cover everything downwind with at least a little dust. If it hasn't melted much since their last snowmaking efforts, that could explain the ambiance snow.


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2022)

Definitely some hard, aggressive snow on the women's GS hill.

Crazy to see Shiffrin boot out and ski out just a couple of gates into her run


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## deadheadskier (Feb 6, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Definitely some hard, aggressive snow on the women's GS hill.
> 
> Crazy to see Shiffrin boot out and ski out just a couple of gates into her run



Did I hear the broadcast correctly in that the only discipline that has been permitted practice runs because of Covid restrictions has been men's downhill? 

Everyone else is skiing blind basically


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## kendo (Feb 6, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Watching the girls snowboarding and there seems to be a lot of snow in the surrounding area. Doesn’t look entirely man made. Are we only talking skiing? The snowboard park looked to be in a ski area



All man made snow on the event hills and the surrounding area.   Massive pipelines and reservoirs bring water into the region for 24/7 snowmaking production to put an Alpine veneer on a barren landscape.

Downhill course chiseled out of cliffs with explosives ... sounds like Hunter.

10's of thousands of trees watered by an elaborate irrigation system, recently planted to present a forested landscape.  

24000 acres of barren wasteland developed into ski areas.

Money buys the games and creates the backdrop...









						China’s Games: How Xi Jinping Is Staging the Olympics on His Terms
					

From Beijing’s unexpected bid through the coronavirus pandemic, China has managed to fulfill its promises and cow its critics.




					www.nytimes.com


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## deadheadskier (Feb 6, 2022)

kendo said:


> All man made snow on the event hills and the surrounding area.   Massive pipelines and reservoirs bring water into the region for 24/7 snowmaking production to put an Alpine veneer on a barren landscape.
> 
> Downhill course chiseled out of cliffs with explosives ... sounds like Hunter.
> 
> ...



Gross


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## drjeff (Feb 6, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Did I hear the broadcast correctly in that the only discipline that has been permitted practice runs because of Covid restrictions has been men's downhill?
> 
> Everyone else is skiing blind basically



Kind of.

Normal pre race training runs for the DH.

Plenty of pics on social media of the non DH'ers training on the race venues the last few days.

The Covid angle was that the planned WC events for the venue last year were canceled, so this is the first time they've had a race on that hill and basically any of the non Chinese racers have skied it


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## Smellytele (Feb 7, 2022)

Anyone see where they built the freestyle “ramp”?
Right next to a nuclear power station. Beautiful! Even have an Olympic banner on one of the cooling towers.


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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Anyone see where they built the freestyle “ramp”?
> Right next to a nuclear power station. Beautiful! Even have an Olympic banner on one of the cooling towers.



Apparently those cooling towers are not from a nuclear reactor, but from a now closed steel mill.

Quite the interesting visual backdrop reagardless of what the cooling towers were used for


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 7, 2022)

looks like a video game.  the whole skiing and boarding setup is super weird...

Also the manmade snow thing is super silly.  every race is on manmade snow.  Killington held a world cup race on 100% manmade snow.  there wasn't any hooplaw about that except for how awesome their snowmaking crew was.  Which was certainly deserved!


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## fbrissette (Feb 7, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Anyone see where they built the freestyle “ramp”?
> Right next to a nuclear power station. Beautiful! Even have an Olympic banner on one of the cooling towers.



Cooling towers are also used in many coal and gas thermal plants, so they may not be nuclear.  They look grim nonetheless.


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## NYDB (Feb 7, 2022)

It was built on a former steel mill site.  Kind of a post industrial reclamation thing.  Doesn't make it any prettier.


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## gladerider (Feb 7, 2022)

the olympics is not what it used to be for sure
sarajevo, sochi, pyongchang and beijing should not have hosted


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## Smellytele (Feb 7, 2022)

gladerider said:


> the olympics is not what it used to be for sure
> sarajevo, sochi, pyongchang and beijing should not have hosted


No one wants to host too expensive  and Olympic committee poses too many demands on the host city/ nation.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 7, 2022)

They really should just establish a handful of winter and summer locations and just rotate through them.   It's a colossal waste of money to be building these venues only to tear them back down after the games.  

For winter -  Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Scandanavia, mainland Europe and Japan

Summer maybe have a few additional locations as weather isn't as big of an issue.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 7, 2022)

I agree with having a couple rotating locations - buy once, cry once - but with three locations for the Winter Games it's not even once a decade you'd get to host. Upkeep on Olympic infrastructure might still be too expensive to be anywhere but regions with money to burn.


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## machski (Feb 7, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> They really should just establish a handful of winter and summer locations and just rotate through them.   It's a colossal waste of money to be building these venues only to tear them back down after the games.
> 
> For winter -  Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Scandanavia, mainland Europe and Japan
> 
> Summer maybe have a few additional locations as weather isn't as big of an issue.


Unfortunately Salt Lake currently has no viable DH course.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 7, 2022)

machski said:


> Unfortunately Salt Lake currently has no viable DH course.



What happened to the Snow basin course?


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## 1dog (Feb 7, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> I agree with having a couple rotating locations - buy once, cry once - but with three locations for the Winter Games it's not even once a decade you'd get to host. Upkeep on Olympic infrastructure might still be too expensive to be anywhere but regions with money to burn.


pretty sure Montreal paid off the '76 Olympic fiasco in 2014 . . . .









						The 40-year hangover: how the 1976 Olympics nearly broke Montreal
					

The Montreal Olympics left the city with a C$1.6bn debt, a string of corruption scandals, and a creeping sense of economic and social decline. Forty years on, how did the city survive?




					www.theguardian.com


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## FBGM (Feb 7, 2022)

machski said:


> Unfortunately Salt Lake currently has no viable DH course.


Snowbasin had it for last games there and still has it to my knowledge. 

Minimal money/work could be done for another venue somewhere if needed (minimal money Olympic dollars) 


Also this DH course is fucking weird.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 7, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> It was built on a former steel mill site.  Kind of a post industrial reclamation thing.  Doesn't make it any prettier.



i am probably in the minority but i think that looks fucking awesome. dystopian, brutalist, futuristic while also retro, somehow overtaken by nature, with an old fashioned chinese pagoda thing on a hilltop. love.


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## machski (Feb 7, 2022)

FBGM said:


> Snowbasin had it for last games there and still has it to my knowledge.
> 
> Minimal money/work could be done for another venue somewhere if needed (minimal money Olympic dollars)
> 
> ...


Yes, the course is still there but it is too short vertically for an Olympic Men's DH.  SLC has to get a waiver to use that course when they held the fees and since then the IOC changes the requirements disallowing that waiver.  So, where to put the DH in SLC, I'm sure the reason they didn't put it at the Bird no longer exists (traffic congestion and added vehicle pollution up LCC).


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## FBGM (Feb 7, 2022)

machski said:


> Yes, the course is still there but it is too short vertically for an Olympic Men's DH.  SLC has to get a waiver to use that course when they held the fees and since then the IOC changes the requirements disallowing that waiver.  So, where to put the DH in SLC, I'm sure the reason they didn't put it at the Bird no longer exists (traffic congestion and added vehicle pollution up LCC).


Interesting. 

Did I hear the DH course now in China is like shortest/smallest or something? 

Also fuck IOC


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## JimG. (Feb 7, 2022)

Dystopian and ugly.

So perfect.


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## FBGM (Feb 7, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> It was built on a former steel mill site.  Kind of a post industrial reclamation thing.  Doesn't make it any prettier.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 7, 2022)

machski said:


> Unfortunately Salt Lake currently has no viable DH course.


Why do you say that?  I’m pretty sure all the infrastructure remains.  Did standards change?


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## thetrailboss (Feb 7, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> It was built on a former steel mill site.  Kind of a post industrial reclamation thing.  Doesn't make it any prettier.


You beat me to it.  I’m watching the Big Air and am like, “WTF?!”









						Beijing’s big air jumps at the 2022 Winter Olympics look like a dystopian hellscape
					

The big air ramps inside a former Beijing steel mill have created a surreal backdrop at the Winter Olympics.




					www.sbnation.com


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## Yo VT Raps (Feb 7, 2022)

The big air competition is in the industrial district right next to a line of cooling towers. With no leaves on any of their trees, it looks like the most barren landscape possible.


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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2022)

FBGM said:


> Snowbasin had it for last games there and still has it to my knowledge.
> 
> Minimal money/work could be done for another venue somewhere if needed (minimal money Olympic dollars)
> 
> ...



Kind of liking the "banked turn" section of the DH/SG course. Looks like it would be fun to let the skis run through there and feel the G's!

Currently watching the Men's Super G with my 18yr old racer daughter and she's wanting to get on her Super G sticks and let 'em run on that track!


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## abc (Feb 7, 2022)

Yo VT Raps said:


> With no leaves on any of their trees, it looks like the most barren landscape possible.


It's winter! Why should there be leaves on the trees? 

Barren is a subjective word. To many, any place cold enough and snowy enough to host an Olympic is by definition barren.


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## drjeff (Feb 7, 2022)

RCS!!


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 7, 2022)

The odd thing to me about that horrific backdrop is the Communist government does nothing by accident.  Everything is visual for either a smoke n' mirrors attempt or true attempt to project power & supremacy, which means, they actually think that looks good.  Clearly a cultural difference.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 7, 2022)

Awesome for Ryan Cochran-Siegle, I didn't expect an American male to medal in alpine.  Well done.


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## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> It's winter! Why should there be leaves on the trees?
> 
> Barren is a subjective word. To many, any place cold enough and snowy enough to host an Olympic is by definition barren.


There is no natural snow though. Cold and dry.


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## doublediamond (Feb 8, 2022)

Vertical of the Snowbasin Men’s DH course is 883m. Requirement is 800m. Snowbasin is 100% viable to host again. They just let the start get overgrown.


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## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> There is no natural snow though. Cold and dry.


No question about the lack of snow. But even WITH snow, it would have look "barren" by most standards.

It's just like the fact racers are racing on man made snow, or hockey teams playing on man made ice inside a heated stadium. It's long been the case for many years. Then all of a sudden, just because it's in China, everyone wakes up and said "that's not natural!".     

Welcome to the land of hypocrisy!


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 8, 2022)

this eileen gu free skier girl is pretty incredible. 18 year old american with chinese immigrant mom who seems to have had a major career, competing for china, already took a gold, is also a stanford student (deferred to next year), a piano prodigy, and a supermodel who has done campaigns for tiffany & co and other major fashion brands. in china she's a household name and has tons of big dollar endorsements.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/sports/olympics/eileen-gu-china-freeski.html - profile i read last night

this article eludes to her being a sort of casual skier in recent years 'counting her days in the dozens, not the hundreds'. wild


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## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> No question about the lack of snow. But even WITH snow, it would have look "barren" by most standards.
> 
> It's just like the fact racers are racing on man made snow, or hockey teams playing on man made ice inside a heated stadium. It's long been the case for many years. Then all of a sudden, just because it's in China, everyone wakes up and said "that's not natural!".
> 
> Welcome to the land of hypocrisy!



You are missing the point.  It's already been conceded by myself and several others that winter Olympic sports have almost always required man made snow for half a century.

This is the first destination the games have been held where snow sports couldn't exist AT ALL without man made snow.  The first time.  That's what makes it unique and not like Sochi or Vancouver.  It has nothing to do with it being in China.


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## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> You are missing the point.  It's already been conceded by myself and several others that winter Olympic sports have almost always required man made snow for half a century.
> 
> This is the first destination the games have been held where snow sports couldn't exist AT ALL without man made snow.  The first time.  That's what makes it unique and not like Sochi or Vancouver.  It has nothing to do with it being in China.


You're right, I just don't get "the point".

Since the competition had often been done on man made snow, I just don't get it why there's even a point. 

It's not like it's Kuwait that you have to house the slopes indoors so the snow doesn't melt. 

The "point" skiers are missing is the game need to be held in a population center. So the "standard" of the location has to be a compromise. Skating and hockey are often held *in* the city, whilst skiing is located "some" distance away from the city. The question becomes how far should the skiing venue be... "naturally".


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## NYDB (Feb 8, 2022)

Anyone else tired of the spin to win slopestyle, halfpipe and big air events?  

I'd rather see more distinctive style and slower off axis rotations than spin as fast as you can 1440's and 1620's.    I mean, don't get me wrong its impressive for sure, but not interesting to watch imo.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> You're right, I just don't get "the point".
> 
> Since the competition had often been done on man made snow, I just don't get it why there's even a point.
> 
> ...



 No past locations have been like this.  It is in fact unique.   I didn't choose Beijing or write the article.  I was unaware of the uniqueness to this location until I read the article and figured I'd share it. 

What's not unique is you finding a way to argue aimlessly.   Maybe I should have considered that before sharing the article.

We get it.  You don't find it interesting that the games are being held in a high dessert where skiing has never occurred before.   You're 100% clear there.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Anyone else tired of the spin to win slopestyle, halfpipe and big air events?
> 
> I'd rather see more distinctive style and slower off axis rotations than spin as fast as you can 1440's and 1620's.    I mean, don't get me wrong its impressive for sure, but not interesting to watch imo.



I feel the same about bump skiing competition.  It's really about taking most of the subjectiveness out of selecting the winner.   They've essentially copied the gymnastics and diving model of judging.   It probably is more fair this way, but not as entertaining to me.


----------



## urungus (Feb 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Anyone else tired of the spin to win slopestyle, halfpipe and big air events?
> 
> I'd rather see more distinctive style and slower off axis rotations than spin as fast as you can 1440's and 1620's.    I mean, don't get me wrong its impressive for sure, but not interesting to watch imo.


What I would love to see is an Olympic Tree Skiing or Backcountry event


----------



## urungus (Feb 8, 2022)

Maybe the “Ski Mountaineering” event that will be held  in Milan 2026 will be good









						Ski Mountaineering to be in 2026 Winter Olympics - Gripped Magazine
					

Nearly 50 athletes from around the world will compete in the first Olympic Skimo event




					gripped.com


----------



## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> No past locations have been like this.  It is in fact unique.   I didn't choose Beijing or write the article.  I was unaware of the uniqueness to this location until I read the article and figured I'd share it.
> 
> What's not unique is you finding a way to argue aimlessly.   Maybe I should have considered that before sharing the article.
> 
> We get it.  You don't find it interesting that the games are being held in a high dessert where skiing has never occurred before.   You're 100% clear there.


I don't have a problem you sharing the article. 

It is you who consider any question about anything you post "argument" and make of point of attacking the poster!


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2022)

urungus said:


> Maybe the “Ski Mountaineering” event that will be held  in Milan 2026 will be good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They will find someway to make it “unreal” like x-games ice climbing.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> I don't have a problem you sharing the article.
> 
> It is you who consider any question about anything you post "argument" and make of point of attacking the poster!


When someone “questions” every time they post it gets grating.


----------



## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> When someone “questions” every time they post it gets grating.


But this is the internet!

If you don't want a conversation (aka questions), why come here?


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 8, 2022)

Hey look another “question”.


----------



## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

You're right. People don't go on the internet to discuss anything. They go there to echo what others posts. Or post something for others to agree with.

World wide web = world wide echo chamber!

(it's not a question, please agree with me  )


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> But this is the internet!
> 
> If you don't want a conversation (aka questions), why come here?



No I do not always make posts in hopes of or expecting someone to ask questions and pose a contrarian point of view almost every single time like you do.  

But hey, you do you


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Feb 8, 2022)

you 2 should consider the ignore feature...


----------



## danimals (Feb 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Anyone else tired of the spin to win slopestyle, halfpipe and big air events?
> 
> I'd rather see more distinctive style and slower off axis rotations than spin as fast as you can 1440's and 1620's.    I mean, don't get me wrong its impressive for sure, but not interesting to watch imo.


Yes.
There’s a huge pushback against this in the snowboarding community. However, it gets views from the general public and sells sponsorships.

There’s a contest series called natural selection and it’s based on style/line selection in an almost natural environment. You can watch the Jackson hole event on YouTube that took place a week ago, and the next event is at baldface lodge.


----------



## gladerider (Feb 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> Anyone else tired of the spin to win slopestyle, halfpipe and big air events?
> 
> I'd rather see more distinctive style and slower off axis rotations than spin as fast as you can 1440's and 1620's.    I mean, don't get me wrong its impressive for sure, but not interesting to watch imo.


agree. 

these events have become aerial acrobatics. it is getting old. x-games is also getting old.

the event that i follow and like the most is the freeride world tour.


----------



## NYDB (Feb 8, 2022)

gladerider said:


> agree.
> 
> these events have become aerial acrobatics. it is getting old. x-games is also getting old.
> 
> the event that i follow and like the most is the freeride world tour.


i love the fwt.  Stuff like T rice’s winning Japan ride in 2019  is what I want to see.  That’s the pinnacle of the sport imo.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

_Hopefully they never bring the Freeride World Tour to the Olympics.  Surely it would suffer the same "programming" as other freestyle events. _


----------



## kendo (Feb 8, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> i love the fwt.  Stuff like T rice’s winning Japan ride in 2019  is what I want to see.  That’s the pinnacle of the sport imo.


^100%

Nothing to do with the Olympics, but Travis' assist on this epic sit-ski send of Corbet's is gold medal worthy.


----------



## machski (Feb 8, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> Vertical of the Snowbasin Men’s DH course is 883m. Requirement is 800m. Snowbasin is 100% viable to host again. They just let the start get overgrown.


Well, I remember when SLC moved the bid to Snowbasin (they wanted Snowbird but we're blocked by environmental concerns from using the Cottonwood resorts) for the DH, it required an exemption and I thought it was vert but could have been for length (either measured or time).  I also remember when SLC has been mentioned for another bid that the exemption Snowbasin had is no longer available and that the course was currently under the minimum requirements.

Yes, all the infrastructure is there still.  Whiteface still has their infrastructure but their course is no longer qualified as well (I believe it no longer meets safety width requirements in this case).  Tough to maintain or spend the $$ to keep up with evolving course requirements if you don't host an actual FIS race often.  In North America for speed, that would leave just LL and BC.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

machski said:


> Well, I remember when SLC moved the bid to Snowbasin (they wanted Snowbird but we're blocked by environmental concerns from using the Cottonwood resorts) for the DH, it required an exemption and I thought it was vert but could have been for length (either measured or time).  I also remember when SLC has been mentioned for another bid that the exemption Snowbasin had is no longer available and that the course was currently under the minimum requirements.
> 
> Yes, all the infrastructure is there still.  Whiteface still has their infrastructure but their course is no longer qualified as well (I believe it no longer meets safety width requirements in this case).  Tough to maintain or spend the $$ to keep up with evolving course requirements if you don't host an actual FIS race often.  In North America for speed, that would leave just LL and BC.



What about Whistler?  Any issues with that course? I admittedly know nothing about DH race course requirements.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 8, 2022)

Absolutely can't believe what just happened to Shriffrin....


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

Mikaela blows out again, now in her best event..  Wow.  Heartbreaking for her.  Best ski racer of the generation and on track for best ever and she "chokes" in the first two events.  Ouch


----------



## foofy (Feb 8, 2022)

It's Simone Biles redux


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

I think Mikaela Shiffrin is having a nervous breakdown.  She's not leaving the race course after skiing out, and it's been a long time now.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Mikaela blows out again, now in her best event..  Wow.  Heartbreaking for her.  Best ski racer of the generation and on track for best ever and she "chokes" in the first two events.  Ouch



Yesterday wasnt a "choke", that could happen to anyone, and did to several other skiers in the exact same patch of snow.  Today?   Yeah, this is a mind **** from yesterday.  Total mental jobber.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> I think Mikaela Shiffrin is having a nervous breakdown.  She's not leaving the race course after skiing out, and it's been a long time now.



Totally crushed.  Sad to see.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this eileen gu free skier girl is pretty incredible.



If by "incredible", you mean terrible, then yes.   

Born and raised in America, trained in America, educated in America, never lived a day in her life in China, but she's racing for "China" for the massive, massive, paychecks that are already coming with it.  Bonus points for saying it's really to "inspire millions of Chinese girls to ski" = ROFLMAO.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> You are missing the point.



No; she definitely got the point. lol


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yesterday wasnt a "choke", that could happen to anyone, and did to several other skiers in the exact same patch of snow.  Today?   Yeah, this is a mind **** from yesterday.  Total mental jobber.



The reason why I quoted "choke" is because history is harsh on the great ones when they fail on the biggest stage and many will call it that.  She herself will think that and that's the biggest challenge for her moving forward competitively.  You're right, the GS blowout could have happened to anyone. The SL slip seemed more "chokey?"

I'm sure she feels the same about both results though


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

machski said:


> they wanted Snowbird but we're blocked by environmental concerns



Environmental concerns from holding a DH race?   I'm really scratching my head here, and a GOOG search isnt being helpful.  What was the issue(s)?


----------



## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> never lived a day in her life in China


She's an snowboard instructor in Nanshan. Spent just about every summer of her childhood in China. Speaks fluent Chinese... 

So much for Mr. know-it-all!


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> She's an snowboard instructor in Nanshan. Spent just about every summer of her childhood in China. Speaks fluent Chinese...



Like I said, never lived a day in her life in China.

 Speaks the language?  Who cares.  She's American.  And a traitor - solely for money.

Not that you dont know all of this of course, Mrs. argue-at-all-costs!


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

Does anyone know the prospective income advantage of Gu competing for China vs the US?

I haven't read that estimate

Before I pass judgement on the choice, I'd need to know the dollars involved


----------



## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Speaks the language? Who cares.


Right!

Einstein was a traitor from Switzerland. Fermi a traitor from Italy. (for those who don't know, those were physicist, who were instrumental to the Atomic bomb). Von Braun a traitor of Germany, without him the man on the moon probably never would have happened. But of course, he was captured at the end of the war, a POW. But he should have just said his rank and offers nothing...

And Gu's mother? She was born in China, educated in China. But she makes a whole lot more money in the US and she's changed her citizenship from Chinese to US. Should have sent her back! So her offspring would have stayed in China!

And for that matter, half of the US fgure skating team's parents were "traitors" from China, in case you haven't noticed all those short last names!


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Does anyone know the prospective income advantage of Gu competing for China vs the US?



Staggering.   

China's market size is about 500% larger than the US.   But it doesnt end there.   In the US she'd still make millions and be rich, but she'd be one of many female athletes competing for dollars, and not even unusual among winter athletes. Chloe Kim anyone?  Mikaela Shiffrin? Lindsey Vonn? etc, etc...  In China, she's the only game in town.    It gets even more complex though.   Given she's competing for China it's "okay" for all those Chinese firms to toss money at her.  Gu will be used by XI's communist regime to milk every last ounce of political propaganda from her choosing China & rejecting America.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

abc said:


> Right!
> 
> Einstein was a traitor from Switzerland. Fermi a traitor from Italy. (for those who don't know, those were physicist, who were instrumental to the Atomic bomb). Von Braun a traitor of Germany, without him the man on the moon probably never would have happened. But of course, he was captured at the end of the war, a POW. But he should have just said his rank and offers nothing...
> 
> ...



Nope.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 8, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Staggering.
> 
> China's market size is about 500% larger than the US.   But it doesnt end there.   In the US she'd still make millions and be rich, but she'd be one of many female athletes competing for dollars, and not even unusual among winter athletes. Chloe Kim anyone?  Mikaela Shiffrin? Lindsey Vonn? etc, etc...  In China, she's the only game in town.    It gets even more complex though.   Given she's competing for China it's "okay" for all those Chinese firms to toss money at her.  Gu will be used by XI's communist regime to milk every last ounce of political propaganda from her choosing China & rejecting America.



You are presenting theories that certainly make sense and I don't disagree that what you suggest happens. 

But what I'm asking for is dollars / contracts / sponsorships.

What did a Chinese agent promise this 18 year old girl to have her make that decision?


----------



## abc (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> What did a Chinese agent promise this *18 year old* girl to have her make that decision?


*15* year old! (she became a Chinese citizen when she was only 15)

Whether that decision was hers or of her mother's is anyone's guess.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 8, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> But what I'm asking for is dollars / contracts / sponsorships.



I read the other day her recent Chinese deals are worth something like $15 Million, which is huge for a young, female athlete who frankly hadnt accomplished much before last year.  Luckin Coffee (basically Chinese Starbucks) is one of the bigger ones.  In any event, obviously she wouldn't be pulling $15M in US endorsements; that's more than Tom Brady makes per annum.  Forbes Magazine had a very tongue-in-cheek way of phrasing her bizarre decision to represent China,_ "it turned out to be a great financial choice"_, LOL.


*EDIT:*

And the plot thickens.   Just hearing on TV now someone asked her a few hours ago if she renounced her US citizenship & she wouldn't answer the question.


----------



## Slidebrook87 (Feb 9, 2022)

Don’t know if it’s been posted yet, but this pretty much sums up the state of things over there… a ski jump next to a bunch of coal-fired plants.


----------



## djd66 (Feb 9, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> I read the other day her recent Chinese deals are worth something like $15 Million, which is huge for a young, female athlete who frankly hadnt accomplished much before last year.  Luckin Coffee (basically Chinese Starbucks) is one of the bigger ones.  In any event, obviously she wouldn't be pulling $15M in US endorsements; that's more than Tom Brady makes per annum.  Forbes Magazine had a very tongue-in-cheek way of phrasing her bizarre decision to represent China,
> 
> 
> *EDIT:*
> ...


China does not recognize dual citizenship.  So unless President Xi made an exception for Gu, she must have renounced her US citizenship to get her Chinese  passport - which is required for her to compete for China.

Personally, I think it’s a complete joke.  She grew up here, benefits from every thing our country has to offer - and then dumps the US so she can represent the corrupt communists,…. But plans to come back here to continue her schooling at Stanford.

Something just doesn’t sit right for me.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 9, 2022)

djd66 said:


> China does not recognize dual citizenship.  So unless President Xi made an exception for Gu, she must have renounced her US citizenship to get her Chinese  passport - which is required for her to compete for China.
> 
> Personally, I think it’s a complete joke.  She grew up here, benefits from every thing our country has to offer - and then dumps the US so she can represent the corrupt communists,…. But plans to come back here to continue her schooling at Stanford.
> 
> Something just doesn’t sit right for me.


Agree 100%

There is a ZERO percent chance that she'd be an Olympic gold medalist right now had she grew up entirely in China. It's even highly debatable if she would of ever clicked into a binding now had she grew up in China.

The innocence of youth thinking that she may become a roll model, which in her mind I am guessing that she can speak out, for women's athletics and rights in China if she was to suddenly permanently reside there. Just look at what the Chinese Government has done with their star women's tennis player (I will totally mess up her name here, so sorry) Pung Xuai.

Probably the best thing Ms Gu could do right now is to get out of China and back to CA ASAP


----------



## Mum skier (Feb 9, 2022)

Congratulations to Lidnesy Jacobellis.  I’m not even American but good to see someone win on their 5th try.  A tough event to stick around that long in.


----------



## djd66 (Feb 9, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Agree 100%
> 
> There is a ZERO percent chance that she'd be an Olympic gold medalist right now had she grew up entirely in China. It's even highly debatable if she would of ever clicked into a binding now had she grew up in China.
> 
> ...


My theory is the Chinese gov’t made her “an offer she couldn’t refuse “. She has family there, and it is not crazy to think they (PRC) told her mom that they would make life difficult for her family if she would not compete for China.

She has completely dodged the questions on her U.S. passport,… the whole thing is a complete joke.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 9, 2022)

Very well could have been her mother who pushed her in this direction.  She likely witnessed extreme poverty in China and saw the opportunity for her daughter to become a multi millionaire and could have pushed her in that direction.

I suspect she stays in California and goes to Stanford and continues to compete on the X Games circuit.  

One thing is for certain is she should be prohibited from trying to join the US team in the future.


----------



## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> One thing is for certain is she should be prohibited from trying to join the US team in the future.


That's entirely irrelevant. She wouldn't have been invited.

But, if she's dominating the circuit, it's silly to "ban" the US Olympic committee to consider her.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 9, 2022)

There are other skiers from the US skiing for other countries as well. Saw a woman skiing for Hungary yesterday from the US.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 9, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> There are other skiers from the US skiing for other countries as well. Saw a woman skiing for Hungary yesterday from the US.



this. its super common for people to compete for their country of ancestry and not their home country. this 18 year old phenom is getting her money and i don't begrudge her for it. she has 165k followers on Instagram, she has 2M on weibo. freeskiing isn't exactly the most monetizable sport. get that paper girl. if there's more of it in china, get that china paper. and she prob doesn't even care about being on ski teams long term, as this seems almost like a lark for her, and she'll be back to being a stanford prodigy and supermodel next month. fuck nationalism.


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 9, 2022)

abc said:


> That's entirely irrelevant. She wouldn't have been invited.
> 
> But, if she's dominating the circuit, it's silly to "ban" the US Olympic committee to consider her.


Ok


----------



## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

Better yet, the US table tennis Olympic team for Tokyo includes a former Chinese national team member!

But nobody cries foul when the US is on the receiving side! (well there were, those "home grown" players whose place were taken by the transplants). 

Still, I didn't hear BG crying "traitor" on that account!


----------



## tumbler (Feb 9, 2022)

I have always found it odd how many foreign athletes train in the US but compete for the country they live in especially when they win medals.  The other side of this is that the Olympics would be much less exciting from a competition stand point.  I would prefer better competition than one or two countries winning all the medals.


----------



## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

tumbler said:


> I have always found it odd how many foreign athletes train in the US but compete for the country they live in especially when they win medals.  The other side of this is that the Olympics would be much less exciting from a competition stand point.  I would prefer better competition than one or two countries winning all the medals.


Depends on where you live. 

Apparently, the entire world's half pipe athletes train in Sass Fee in November because that's the only superpipe open that time of year!


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 9, 2022)

also, back to the thread title/subject, the halfpipe venue appears to be surrounded by real snow. or at least a full on ski area that covers its entire terrain and not something purpose built for the olympics maybe. i don't think this is ambient snowmaking covering all of the nearby terrian. i could be wrong but i dunno


----------



## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this. its super common for people to compete for their country of ancestry and not their home country


Yes, it's super common. Though usually it doesn't grab headlines because it's typically those who didn't make their home country's team that would go on to "shop" for another country in order to make it to the Olympics. So it's rare they got medals, even rarer gold.

But in events that has a lot of teenagers, that selection process easily breaks down and less promising kids may end up being the superstar a couple years later in the Olympics.

Gu was a promising candidate at 15. But nowhere guaranteed a spot in the US national team. By going to China, she's got a guaranteed spot. Raking in money in the way was probably an incidental thing that happened after. I somehow doubt she (and her Mom) could foresee that 4 years ago.

I used to play table tennis and follow international competitions. Years ago, there was an "incident" that a "Chinese trained" player representing another country beat the Chinese own. There must have been a similar uproar in the Chinese public, and cries to ban all top tier athletes from leaving the country to represent other countries. It was the sport's own people that came out to say "that's fair we passed on him and he proved us wrong!" Since then, there's been a large outflow of Chinese table tennis players playing for other countries. So much so one Olympic, the finals were all Chinese players against each other while representing different countries! 

And back in the 70's, all international badminton competitions were amongst Indonesian players representing different countries too. The list goes on and on...  


KustyTheKlown said:


> fuck nationalism.


Nationalism in sports is just juvenile


----------



## cdskier (Feb 9, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this. its super common for people to compete for their country of ancestry and not their home country.


That doesn't make it right. The concept is completely bizarre to me and completely makes the concept of which country has the "best" athletes or most medals completely irrelevant. If country xyz has medals from athletes that simply had their ancestors from that country and aren't actually from that country themselves, what's the point?


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 9, 2022)

abc said:


> Nationalism in sports is just juvenile


That may be true, but it's the ENTIRE premise underlying the Olympic Games.  I guess we can look forward to some post-national future utopia where they are all competing for whatever multinational corporation's team shells out the most money.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 9, 2022)

Lindsey Vonn had some commentary this morning about the snow on the race hill there, that both seems quite apparent if you've watched any of the races and is playing an issue.

Apparently, racers have been telling her the the snow on the courses is very inconsistent, with sections that are rock hard (what they want) and other sections that are chalkly and grippy. The techs are tuning for the rock hard snow, which makes their skis very grabby and inconsistent when they get to patches of the grippy snow. Pretty obvious when one watches the slow motion replays of some of the truns with how the skis tracks smoothly through some turns and grab and bounce and chatter (which more spray) through others


----------



## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> That may be true, but it's the ENTIRE premise underlying the Olympic Games.  I guess we can look forward to some post-national future utopia where they are all competing for whatever multinational corporation's team shells out the most money.


I totally don't see the medal count as part of the Olympic spirit (if there's any of it left, that is).

Per event, especially team events, I do see the point of "nation". But more as a means to limit the entry number during the qualifying round. Individual event, "nation" is really nothing but a limit on how many each country can field to that event. Without it, some events will have entirely athletes from one single country!

(granted, now that many athletes had figured out ways to "represent" their grandparents' country, that limit gets subverted to some small degree)


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 9, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Lindsey Vonn had some commentary this morning about the snow on the race hill there, that both seems quite apparent if you've watched any of the races and is playing an issue.
> 
> Apparently, racers have been telling her the the snow on the courses is very inconsistent, with sections that are rock hard (what they want) and other sections that are chalkly and grippy. The techs are tuning for the rock hard snow, which makes their skis very grabby and inconsistent when they get to patches of the grippy snow. Pretty obvious when one watches the slow motion replays of some of the truns with how the skis tracks smoothly through some turns and grab and bounce and chatter (which more spray) through others


Is this just a hazard of man-made snow or is the real headline"first Olympics held 100% on snow made by men who don't know how to make snow"?


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Feb 9, 2022)

Apparenrly mikaela fucked up her slalom run and missed gates and had a meltdown and sat on the side of the course while other racers ran their runs. I haven’t seen any footage or read anymore than a Facebook article thumbnail tho


----------



## drjeff (Feb 9, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> Is this just a hazard of man-made snow or is the real headline"first Olympics held 100% on snow made by men who don't know how to make snow"?



As I remember the snow at the last games in Souht Korea, mostly all man-made as well, was so abrasive that racers where literally "frying" their bases during each run, as the wax techs, and the wax companies didn't have anything to deal with the surface that was put down.

The reality is that when you get the arid climate that the past few venues have been in, that snow dries out and becomes incredibly abrasive, even with injection of water quite quick.

Kind of like the wind swept areas of mountains that we all know of and how funky the snow quickly gets after the wind does it's thing and strips the snow down to the base dense stuff. You get a really funky, unpredictable surface that just isn't fun to ski on, let alone race on at the speeds that they often reach with so little margin for error


----------



## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

Different climate, different snow condition. 

As games gone all over the world, outside of traditional European Alps, snow surfaces will likely not be exactly the same as racers expect in the Alps. I wonder what the racers were saying when in the earlier days of North America hosting the Olympics. But perhaps there had been enough international level racing in north America before the first Winter Olympic in north America (Lake Placid? Montreal)?

What I don't know is the back story as to whether there's much World Cup level racing in China or South Korea? If there hadn't been much international level racing in that part of the world, it's clearly more of a gamble to what the snow be like during the Olympics.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 9, 2022)

abc said:


> Different climate, different snow condition.
> 
> As games gone all over the world, outside of traditional European Alps, snow surfaces will likely not be exactly the same as racers expect in the Alps. I wonder what the racers were saying when in the earlier days of North America hosting the Olympics. But perhaps there had been enough international level racing in north America before the first Winter Olympic in north America (Lake Placid? Montreal)?
> 
> What I don't know is the back story as to whether there's much World Cup level racing in China or South Korea? If there hadn't been much international level racing in that part of the world, it's clearly more of a gamble to what the snow be like during the Olympics.



There have been complaints in the past with some of the earlier races at Beaver Creek. in years when the natural snow hasn't shown up prior to the late November race dates that they typically are.

Similar type of thing. High altitude, cold, dry, windy, lots of man made snow. Just creates a very abrasive surface, but it's also one where the race crew out at Beaver Creek as well as Lake Louise, who host races every year that mother nature lets them, now have learned how to better manage the snow for a much more consistent race, which as I understand it, often involves multiple, regular water injections as race day nears to keep the snow, especially portions on exposed knolls/ridge lines that can be hammered by the wind, to manage the water content in the snow and keep the surface consistent.

I forget which World Championships is was at Vail in the past, but it was a lean snow year, and they had been in a dry spell for weeks prior to the worlds, and I remember one of the annoucers talking about the challenges the wax techs were facing since they had never run a race at about 10,000 ft, with 10% humidity and below zero temps on all man made snow and they just couldn't get the wax combo's dialed in to get the skis consistently sliding through/over the snow.

It's adverse conditions like that that have lead to many a niche item wax additive/product being developed and eventaully brought to market


----------



## IceEidolon (Feb 9, 2022)

Not a great look on TechnoAlpin and their course prep if it's actually snow conditions. Mostly course prep.


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Not a great look on TechnoAlpin and their course prep if it's actually snow conditions. Mostly course prep.



Honestly it's more the crews in the cats and on the race crew that own this rather than the guns that made the product, and likely had it done weeks ago.

Not sure how much, or little input from the FIS the crews at the venue had in the weeks leading up the the Olympics as the bulk of the work to get the snow on the courses ready was done.  Given that the media can hardly get as many of it's members into China, as well as the limits on spectators  with Chna's essentail "zero Covid" approach, not sure how much in person, outside advice they allowed to happen


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## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Agree 100%
> 
> There is a ZERO percent chance that she'd be an Olympic gold medalist right now had she grew up entirely in China. It's even highly debatable if she would of ever clicked into a binding now had she grew up in China.
> 
> ...


You drank too much media Kool-Aid! (or limited imagination of a middle-class work-a-bee)

If you don't take enormous amount of risk, you never get to the top of the world. She did. Both on snow and on the geopolitical theater. She's already been richly rewarded at a very young age. More than most here will ever earn in our life time!
​


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## tumbler (Feb 9, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> Apparenrly mikaela fucked up her slalom run and missed gates and had a meltdown and sat on the side of the course while other racers ran their runs. I haven’t seen any footage or read anymore than a Facebook article thumbnail tho


It's true.  Lasted 11 seconds then moped on the side of the trail.  I thought it was a bad look as the tv just kept showing her instead of the people skiing.  I have a felling a mental health break announcement is coming soon.


----------



## tumbler (Feb 9, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Lindsey Vonn had some commentary this morning about the snow on the race hill there, that both seems quite apparent if you've watched any of the races and is playing an issue.
> 
> Apparently, racers have been telling her the the snow on the courses is very inconsistent, with sections that are rock hard (what they want) and other sections that are chalkly and grippy. The techs are tuning for the rock hard snow, which makes their skis very grabby and inconsistent when they get to patches of the grippy snow. Pretty obvious when one watches the slow motion replays of some of the truns with how the skis tracks smoothly through some turns and grab and bounce and chatter (which more spray) through others


Lindsey starting the Mikaela excuse narrative.


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## IceEidolon (Feb 9, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Honestly it's more the crews in the cats and on the race crew that own this rather than the guns that made the product, and likely had it done weeks ago.


It's absolutely possible to ruin a trail or make it harder to prep while snowmaking, though - I've been on both sides (nice snow ruined by race prep and race prep blamed for a horrible mess from rookie snowmakers).


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## tumbler (Feb 9, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> It's absolutely possible to ruin a trail or make it harder to prep while snowmaking, though - I've been on both sides (nice snow ruined by race prep and race prep blamed for a horrible mess from rookie snowmakers).


Is that where the Wildcat and Attitash snowmakers were?


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## Hawk (Feb 9, 2022)

It's interesting to see the range of responces about Eileen Gu's Gold and her decisions. Trader, hero, visionary, bridge builder, entitled teen.  I guess she is a combinaion of all of these things because there is no real determination until the end of the story.  Let's see what she realy does with the new found fame.  I think that at 18 years old she really has no real understanding for the geoplitical fabric and truely thinks she can affect change.  The problem is that like everything else, people generaly suck and will stick to whatever warped opinion they have.  I truely doubt that she will affect any change in this sick and twisted world that we live in.  and honestly, I think she will be affected by the sick and twisted world and fade into obscurity.


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## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

People read too much into these celebrities. 

She's just a girl who's really good at twisting and tumbling with a snowboard attached to her feet. And like other sport celebrities, she wants to convert that short-lived fame into hard cold cash! 

The rest are just her PR machine's spin, again to maximize her income (and their portion as her agent)

If she ever effect any real change, it'll be 10+ years down the road, if she still manages to stay in the lime light that long.


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## Hawk (Feb 9, 2022)

I am not convinced this is all cash.  I think she thinks she can change peoples thinking about US / China relations.  

Also!  you stated above that "If you don't take enormous amount of risk, you never get to the top of the world. She did. Both on snow and on the geopolitical theater. She's already been richly rewarded at a very young age. More than most here will ever earn in our life time!"  I highly disagree with this.  I think I have been richly rewarded in my lifetime.  I Ski and bike most days, have a beautiful and talated wife that skis and bike with me.  I have tremedous likeminded friends.  I grow, cook and eat excellent foods. Drink good wines and cocktails.  I have great health and have been employed consistently for my entire life.  I don't have the shitshow that publicity gathers like these celeberties and althletes have.  I would never wish that upon anybody.  I would argue that my life is 10 times more rewarding then hers.


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## JimG. (Feb 9, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I am not convinced this is all cash.  I think she thinks she can change peoples thinking about US / China relations.
> 
> Also!  you stated above that "If you don't take enormous amount of risk, you never get to the top of the world. She did. Both on snow and on the geopolitical theater. She's already been richly rewarded at a very young age. More than most here will ever earn in our life time!"  I highly disagree with this.  I think I have been richly rewarded in my lifetime.  I Ski and bike most days, have a beautiful and talated wife that skis and bike with me.  I have tremedous likeminded friends.  I grow, cook and eat excellent foods. Drink good wines and cocktails.  I have great health and have been employed consistently for my entire life.  I don't have the shitshow that publicity gathers like these celeberties and althletes have.  I would never wish that upon anybody.  I would argue that my life is 10 times more rewarding then hers.


I feel the same way Hawk.

She's a performer and no different from any other celebrity, looking out for her bottom line only. The political speak about effecting change is naive bullshit. I'm not a fan.


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## machski (Feb 9, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Environmental concerns from holding a DH race?   I'm really scratching my head here, and a GOOG search isnt being helpful.  What was the issue(s)?


Not the race itself, it was all the added traffic to cover and watch the event that would have driven up LCC.


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## machski (Feb 9, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> What about Whistler?  Any issues with that course? I admittedly know nothing about DH race course requirements.


Whistler course was always fully qualified, no waivers required.  Likely still is, just not on the regular FIS circuit.


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## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I have great health and have been employed consistently for my entire life. I don't have the shitshow that publicity gathers like these celeberties and althletes have. I would never wish that upon anybody. I would argue that my life is 10 times more rewarding then hers.


So if your kids want to race, and showing talent, you'll tell him/her "It's a shitty life which I don't wish it upon you!"?


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 9, 2022)

tumbler said:


> It's true.  Lasted 11 seconds then moped on the side of the trail.  I thought it was a bad look as the tv just kept showing her instead of the people skiing.  I have a felling a mental health break announcement is coming soon.



just watched it. they said she sat there for 25 minutes. i understand its devastating, and i also cant possibly ever truly understand it bc its her life and i don't know those pressures. but seems kinda whack to me and mostly disrespectful to her competitors and her own teammates for her to sit courseside for 25 minutes creating a hazard for the other racers who all worked just as hard and care just as much as MS does


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## drjeff (Feb 9, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> just watched it. they said she sat there for 25 minutes. i understand its devastating, and i also cant possibly ever truly understand it bc its her life and i don't know those pressures. but seems kinda whack to me and mostly disrespectful to her competitors and her own teammates for her to sit courseside for 25 minutes creating a hazard for the other racers who all worked just as hard and care just as much as MS does



Technical issue, she actually wasn't a hazard for her fellow competitors where she sat. There were some drone shots of her sitting on the snow and she was probably a good 75-100 ft off to the side of the course with a segment of b-net between the course and where she sat 

The reality is that even not paying attention to the subsequent racers as she sat there, she wasn't affecting the safety of the race, and there were plenty more course workers and race officials at other sections of the course, much closer to the race line and not behind any b-net.

Had she actually been in the race line or in a hazardous location of other competitors the technical delegate (the head of the race) in would of received word from other race officials in sight of her, and a "stop - start" order would of been called on the race radios and the starter would of held and subsequent racers until the course was cleared by the race officials from the finish on up to the start, at which point the technical delegate or chief of race would of given a "start - start" order on the race radio and the head starter would of brought the next racer into the starting gate and released them onto the course once the starter verified with the head timer that the timing system is clear and ready to resume.

There's a bunch of specifically detailed protocols and commands that go into how a race is run, and not just at the Olympic or Worldcup level


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## ThatGuy (Feb 9, 2022)

The whole point of the Olympics is to represent your country on a global stage. Its like for Soccer in the World Cup when all the best American players go play for different countries, stupid. If you weren’t born there or lived there for a significant time its just bs money/glory grabbing. The girl was born in America, trained in America and benefited from her mother bringing her to America but now wants to play for China because she knows she has a better chance of money, fame and glory there. I don’t agree with Nationalism either but China is committing many atrocities in our current age and the fact that they are where the money is now means people are afraid to disrupt their income. Just like Lebron, John Cena and the many other celebrities/ athletes who bend over for a paycheck.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 9, 2022)

Another problem is the media hyping these athletes to the point of mental breakdowns. Look at what happened to Simone Biles in the Summer Olympics. It’s unrealistic to hold these insane expectations of them and act like they are carrying the country on their shoulders. Yes it is great to see people compete and perform at the top level but its also okay to fail and its not the end of the world.


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## abc (Feb 9, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> The whole point of the Olympics is to *represent your country on a global stage*.





ThatGuy said:


> It’s unrealistic to hold these insane expectations of them and act like they are *carrying the country on their shoulders*.



So you want them to "_*represent your country on a global stage*_" but not "*carrying the country on their shoulder*"?

Aren't those two exactly the same thing?






See the contradiction in your own thought process?


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## JimG. (Feb 9, 2022)

abc said:


> So if your kids want to race, and showing talent, you'll tell him/her "It's a shitty life which I don't wish it upon you!"?


I don't think Hawk has kids. 

I do and frankly it does seem like a shitty life for a kid.


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## JimG. (Feb 9, 2022)

abc said:


> So you want them to "_*represent your country on a global stage*_" but not "*carrying the country on their shoulder*"?
> 
> Aren't those two exactly the same thing?
> 
> ...


I don't think he "wants" any of that. He's just speaking truth.


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## flakeydog (Feb 9, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Technical issue, she actually wasn't a hazard for her fellow competitors where she sat. There were some drone shots of her sitting on the snow and she was probably a good 75-100 ft off to the side of the course with a segment of b-net between the course and where she sat
> 
> The reality is that even not paying attention to the subsequent racers as she sat there, she wasn't affecting the safety of the race, and there were plenty more course workers and race officials at other sections of the course, much closer to the race line and not behind any b-net.
> 
> ...


Agreed- the coverage was a bit over the top.  She was well off to the side out of range and view of the active race course but the coverage almost indicated otherwise.  If you were watching NBC you might think that the racing world had stopped to allow her the time she needed to decompress a mere few feet away from the race. I had to rewind a couple of times to figure out where she really was, the camera was in so close you could not get the big picture. In addition to that, they skipped a number of racers as they continued to zoom in on her agony of defeat.  I had to switch to Peacock to rewind back to actually see the other racers (yes, the race was still going on, NBC decided not to show it).  Shiffrin was trying to get a little bit of alone time away from the action before facing the masses down below, it was NBC trying to craft a different narrative.


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## Hawk (Feb 10, 2022)

abc said:


> So if your kids want to race, and showing talent, you'll tell him/her "It's a shitty life which I don't wish it upon you!"?


I don't have any children.  Wasn't in the cards and not for a lack of trying.  My comments are my own and for me that life sounds really shitty.  But I am someone that does not like a lot of fuss in my life.  If I had children I would have probably tried to steer them in a direction of hard work and service to others but the decision would be of there own making.  You can only hope that your kids get it and live a good positive life.  I have 22 nieces and nephews, all great kids.  No issues with drugs, alchohol, depression or selfishness.  Seeing how my siblings and family operate, I would hope I would have done the same.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 10, 2022)

thanks for explaining. the coverage i saw indeed make it seem like she was interfering with or at least annoying the other racers.


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## abc (Feb 10, 2022)

Hawk said:


> But I am someone that does not like a lot of fuss in my life. If I had children I would have probably tried to steer them in a direction of hard work and service to others but the decision would be of there own making.


Thanks for explaining. Because it wasn't how it's coming through in your previous post. What you wrote earlier sounds exactly what my mother would have said (and continue to say).

It's one thing to impact some adult wisdom to kids as they growing up, which every parent does to his/her best knowledge. It's something else to strongly discourage them from something that's potentially harmful. The latter should only applies to drugs and crimes. But you made it sound like striving for world class excellency is also something to be strongly discouraged and prevented. I can't help to find that disturbing.


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## Hawk (Feb 10, 2022)

Well based on how many world class athlete's, musicians, actors, etc. implode and either die or go off the deep end, maybe it is something to consider when trying to steer a kid.  Glad it is not a decision I need to make.  I have to think it is a much eaiser and possibly greater joy for the parrents of the kid that created a cure for a disease or some kind of solution to a great social problem.  That woud be something I would be totaly behind if it were my child.


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## abc (Feb 10, 2022)

Hawk said:


> Well based on how many world class athlete's, musicians, actors, etc. implode and either die or go off the deep end, maybe it is something to consider when trying to steer a kid.  Glad it is not a decision I need to make.  I have to think it is a much eaiser and possibly greater joy for the parrents of the kid that created a cure for a disease or some kind of solution to a great social problem.  That woud be something I would be totaly behind if it were my child.


I was trained as a research scientist. I can tell you the competition for "finding a cure for a disease" is absolutely cut throat! 

If I had kids who're so inclined, I'd at least warn them very sternly the road to such high places are littered with trashed bodies and minds. But then, roads to any kind of "high places" are equally treacherous. You just don't get to hear about the "implosions" as much because they aren't celebrities. 

Much easier life as middling workabee. No question about it. And as long as they never experienced the excitement and elation of a major achievement, they won't miss it.


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## Hawk (Feb 10, 2022)

I think you are right.  I like my middling world alot.  Money and fame have always been the great destroyer. It's too bad that some of the worst people in the world are created or gravitate to it and suck good people down with them.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 10, 2022)

When I was a Freshman in high school, I competed in some USSA bump competitions and would finish top 5 in my age class.  I had zero coaching.  But the Killington Mountain School coaches saw me and said if I got coached by them, I could potentially be number one in New England for high school aged kids and who knows, maybe make it on the National team.  I asked my folks and they said absolutely not.  What if you put all your eggs in that basket and got hurt?  Then what would you do with yourself?

Well, two years later I broke my neck and dislocated my shoulder.  Done for that year.  I obviously could have come back from that injury to compete as I still ski today.  But, had the fracture in my neck been about a quarter inch longer, I might be in a wheelchair right now.  

Also of relevance to some of the discussion in this thread; I thought at the time that if I couldn't make the US team, maybe I could compete for Ireland due to my ancestry.   Would I have been a traitor?


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## abc (Feb 10, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I like my middling world alot. Money and fame have always been the great destroyer. It's too bad that some of the worst people in the world are created or gravitate to it and suck good people down with them.


But our world would have stayed very much the same had no one went out of their way to create great things! We would have still be watching 360's in ski jumps! 

And much of the technology advances would have stayed in the back corner of the lab instead of enriching people's life. Whether those who brought these advancement to the world did it for money or fame or just out of their good heart is irrelevant. We benefited from the result regardless. It's easy to say you'd rather not have the benefit if you can take the money out of the equation.


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## abc (Feb 10, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Also of relevance to some of the discussion in this thread; I thought at the time that if I couldn't make the US team, maybe I could compete for Ireland due to my ancestry. Would I have been a traitor?


  

Not as long as you don't podium higher than the US team!


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## machski (Feb 10, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Technical issue, she actually wasn't a hazard for her fellow competitors where she sat. There were some drone shots of her sitting on the snow and she was probably a good 75-100 ft off to the side of the course with a segment of b-net between the course and where she sat
> 
> The reality is that even not paying attention to the subsequent racers as she sat there, she wasn't affecting the safety of the race, and there were plenty more course workers and race officials at other sections of the course, much closer to the race line and not behind any b-net.
> 
> ...


To add to Dr. Jeff's comments, at this venue unlike almost any other WC venue, MS could have slipped through the B-netting and skied out of camera view down an adjacent trail and had her moment in relative peace.  At this venue in China, you really can't do that.  The snow is only on the run and anything off that is all exposed dirt and rock.


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## machski (Feb 10, 2022)

abc said:


> I was trained as a research scientist. I can tell you the competition for "finding a cure for a disease" is absolutely cut throat!
> 
> If I had kids who're so inclined, I'd at least warn them very sternly the road to such high places are littered with trashed bodies and minds. But then, roads to any kind of "high places" are equally treacherous. You just don't get to hear about the "implosions" as much because they aren't celebrities.
> 
> Much easier life as middling workabee. No question about it. And as long as they never experienced the excitement and elation of a major achievement, they won't miss it.


Not just that, but being a ski racer in this country also means you have to scrape and claw to get endorsement deals to keep going on the circuit.  Just another added pressure on the athletes.  Had the opportunity to meet and ski with Bode a few years ago and one in the group asked him if he was encouraging his kids to be racers.  He said absolutely not.  If they on their own want to, he would fully support that decision but AFTER he made sure they were fully aware of the pressures and lifestyle.  He said it is rough, much more than what he ever thought when he got into the meat of it.


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## Yo VT Raps (Feb 10, 2022)

abc said:


> It's winter! Why should there be leaves on the trees?
> 
> Barren is a subjective word. To many, any place cold enough and snowy enough to host an Olympic is by definition barren.



"With no leaves on any of their trees, it looks like the most barren landscape possible."

This means I think it looks barren when there are no leaves on trees, not that there should be leaves during the winter.

Rocky mountains are 10x as beautiful as this place and their fake grids of pine trees. Half of those are probably plastic.


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## Yo VT Raps (Feb 10, 2022)

urungus said:


> What I would love to see is an Olympic Tree Skiing or Backcountry event


Maybe they can move the biathalon to the backcountry and give them bigger guns.


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## chuckstah (Feb 11, 2022)

Original topic. It is no longer 100 percent machine made snow. It was snowing today during the aerials.  We are safe having a miniscule amount of natural mixed in for another 4 years, at least.


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## Smellytele (Feb 11, 2022)

Meet the American-made China hockey team
					

With players from the U.S. and Canada, China's men's hockey team might be the most fascinating (and controversial) team at the Winter Games.




					www.yahoo.com
				



so not just skiing/snowboarding


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## gladerider (Feb 11, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Meet the American-made China hockey team
> 
> 
> With players from the U.S. and Canada, China's men's hockey team might be the most fascinating (and controversial) team at the Winter Games.
> ...


i was watching the US-China game yesterday.
the chinese team was checking hard purposely. i know it's hockey but dang. i am glad we trashed them 8-0.

i guess it's their lively hood for the players but have they no conscience to have the chinese change their names?

"Chelios is Kailiaosi Jieke. Smith is Shimisi Jieruimi. Cory Kane, from Irvine, California, is An Jian. Schultz is Enlai Zheng, and Yip, the captain, is Jinguang Ye"

the chinese are doing this purposely to hide what their doing because it is shameful.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

gladerider said:


> i was watching the US-China game yesterday.
> the chinese team was checking hard purposely. i know it's hockey but dang. i am glad we trashed them 8-0.
> 
> i guess it's their lively hood for the players but have they no conscience to have the chinese change their names?
> ...



Giving Chinese names is pretty embarrassing.  Then again I work for a Chinese company and  most Chinese businessmen I work with have an American first name they use when visiting the states.   So, perhaps it's not all that weird in their culture.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

gladerider said:


> i guess it's their lively hood for the players but have they no conscience to have the chinese change their names?
> 
> "Chelios is Kailiaosi Jieke. Smith is Shimisi Jieruimi. Cory Kane, from Irvine, California, is An Jian. Schultz is Enlai Zheng, and Yip, the captain, is Jinguang Ye"


Huh? 

Didn't many of the European immigrants from non-English speaking countries also changed their names into more English sounding ones when they got "processed" through Ellis Island? 

It's ok your American ancestors did that, but not cool for China??? 

By the way, "Yip" is a Chinese last name (as his grandparent being Chinese). He didn't "change" it at all. It's the translation back into English that it looks different! 

And when you see a last name of "Zhou" or "Xue" in your colleagues, it's then "the American changed it", right? OK, those colleague of yours or schoolmates of your kids had no conscience, I guess. I adopted English names! 

No wonder the players just chuckle and roll their eyes at the ignorance of those who aren't there!


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## Hawk (Feb 11, 2022)

I think changing the names in this case is kind of lame.  Just own it and so what.  I'm not going to delve into the cultural norms to justify that they are playing for a country not of thier ansestry.  It is what it is.  I am sure all of them have thier reason.  Most just want to play hockey and would not have made another team.  And yes some for money.  I am not going to analyse this and pass judgement.  Total waste of time.

 What I find most amuseing is the comment above about the Chineese coming out playing a physical style and hitting.  Ahh it's hockey not soccer.  Everybody should play a physical style.  It is a much better product.  I hate the no hit skating style of play.  It is borring.


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## Smellytele (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> Huh?
> 
> Didn't many of the European immigrants from non-English speaking countries also changed their names into more English sounding ones when they got "processed" through Ellis Island?
> 
> ...


The difference with those that came to the US and changed their names is that they stayed living here. These hockey players are mercenaries and once the olympics are over they are gone.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> The difference with those that came to the US and changed their names is that they stayed living here. These hockey players are mercenaries and once the olympics are over they are gone.


Not necessarily. They may stay to play their entire hockey career there, or in other countries as "mercenaries". 

The legendary soccer god Pele immigrated to the US "to develop" soccer in this country. I bet many back in Brazil felt the same way about his "mercenary" move.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> Not necessarily. They may stay to play their entire hockey career there, or in other countries as "mercenaries".
> 
> The legendary soccer god Pele immigrated to the US "to develop" soccer in this country. I bet many back in Brazil felt the same way about his "mercenary" move.


You always have cherry picked examples to fit your narratives, Pele spent 95% of his career playing for the same team in Brazil and is still their all time top goal scorer. Also won three World Cups with the Brazilian national team. He spent three years playing in America before retirement, not exactly a mercenary.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 11, 2022)

i think mercenary and traitor are pretty strong words to describe kids who just want to play sports at the highest levels

i hope the NHL players get back into the next winter games. i went to torino 2006 and russia v sweden and Canada v switz men's hockey are prob the two coolest sporting events I've personally attended. i went to game 4 of rangers v devils eastern conference finals in 1994 when i was 9. that was cool too.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> You always have cherry picked examples to fit your narratives, Pele spent 95% of his career playing for the same team in Brazil and is still their all time top goal scorer. Also won three World Cups with the Brazilian national team. He spent three years playing in America before retirement, not exactly a mercenary.


Cherry picking? Just look at the current crop of soccer players. Huge number of them play for clubs not in their home country?

Sure, they all come home to play for their home country team in the world cup. But isn't that the best example of "mercenary"?


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 11, 2022)

not really. pro sports is a job and pro soccer leagues exist all over the world. its a different conversation than international competition. i don't buy the 'traitor/mercenary' line on these olympic athletes, but comparing pro sports to international isn't apples v apples.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> not really. pro sports is a job and pro soccer leagues exist all over the world. its a different conversation than international competition. i don't buy the 'traitor/mercenary' line on these olympic athletes, but comparing pro sports to international isn't apples v apples.


True, they aren't quite the same.

But let's face it, those who went to "represent" other country than their own are mostly the ones who felt they didn't have a good chance to make their own country's national team.

Why aren't the US media talk about the figure skating girl in the Chinese team? Because she didn't do well. It's pretty typical outcome of those 2nd tier athletes. But Eileen Gu found her groove, did well and got gold in the Olympics. All of a sudden, she's a "traitor".

It's just sour grapes.


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## Domeskier (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> Why aren't the US media talk about the figure skating girl in the Chinese team? Because she didn't do well. It's pretty typical outcome of those 2nd tier athletes. But Eileen Gu found her groove, did well and got gold in the Olympics. All of a sudden, she's a "traitor".


Are you talking about Beverly Zhu?  Have you seen how her adopted homeland is treating her now after her performance in the team event?  I guess if you want to compete for China as a foreigner you better be good.  Or photogenic.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> Are you talking about Beverly Zhu? Have you seen how her adopted homeland is treating her now after her performance in the team event?


No, I haven't seen how she was treated. I wasn't paying attention to what happened IN China.

The western report I read mentioned SOME fans were critical of her poor performance. But isn't that pretty typical? And the reports were saying her teammates and coach were defending her. How else do you expect her to be treated differently? A hero's treatment when she fell in both the short and long program?


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## JimG. (Feb 11, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Also of relevance to some of the discussion in this thread; I thought at the time that if I couldn't make the US team, maybe I could compete for Ireland due to my ancestry.   Would I have been a traitor?


No.

But if you carefully crafted your career to maximize the amount of money you make from skiing and your decision to ski for Ireland was a part of that plan I would not think highly of you at all. 

Think LeBron.  OK to make money in China and ignore the genocide the Chinese perpetrate but ramble on incessantly about inequality in America. A true douchebag.


----------



## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

JimG. said:


> But if you carefully crafted your career to maximize the amount of money you make from skiing and your decision to ski for Ireland was a part of that plan I would not think highly of you at all.


I guess that's how we see things differently. I wouldn't have thought any less of him.



JimG. said:


> Think LeBron. OK to make money in China and ignore the genocide the Chinese perpetrate but ramble on incessantly about inequality in America. A true douchebag.


That's different. Getting political for money is indeed a couchebag. We have plenty of those who do that without even bother leaving US soil.

But what about the Chinese dissidents who criticize their own country? Are they douchebag?


----------



## JimG. (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> I guess that's how we see things differently. I wouldn't have thought any less of him.
> 
> 
> That's different. Getting political for money is indeed a couchebag. We have plenty of those who do that without even bother leaving US soil.
> ...


Girl YOU can troll with the best of them! Not working on me.

BUT you can come fishing with me anytime!


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> The western report I read mentioned SOME fans were critical of her poor performance. But isn't that pretty typical?


No I don't think it's typical for a second-tier athlete (as you call her) to be the subject of a nation's wrath for poor performance at the olympics.  Perhaps that is the case in China.  Perhaps a home-grown second-tier Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" and causing the Weibo / the government to ban pejorative hashtags, delete user accounts and censor posts. I rather doubt it.  I know you'll disagree.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> No I don't think it's typical for a second-tier athlete (as you call her) to be the subject of a nation's wrath for poor performance at the olympics.  *Perhaps* that is the case in China.  *Perhaps* a home-grown second-tier Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" and causing the Weibo / the government to ban pejorative hashtags, delete user accounts and censor posts. I rather doubt it.  I know you'll disagree.


A lot of "perhaps"... (except you know without doubt I'll disagree!   )

As a matter of fact, I did remember reading report of _home-grown Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" (_during the summer Olympics)


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## Domeskier (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> As a matter of fact, I did remember reading report of _home-grown Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" (_during the summer Olympics)


Are you thinking of Wang Luyao?  She was favored to win gold in Tokyo, not a second-tier athlete by any means.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> Are you thinking of Wang Luyao?  She was favored to win gold in Tokyo, not a second-tier athlete by any means.


Probably. I'm no good with names. Just remember reading reports of similar, massive online abuse. 

Zhu Yi may have been second tier in the US. She's probably top tier in China. Or she wouldn't have been chosen to represent China.


----------



## JimG. (Feb 11, 2022)

And the 15 year old Russian figure skater apparently failed a doping test. She was favored to win gold.

15 years old. Go ahead and convince me that's not a shitty life for a kid.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

JimG. said:


> And the 15 year old Russian figure skater apparently failed a doping test. She was favored to win gold.
> 
> 15 years old. Go ahead and convince me that's not a shitty life for a kid.


In what way it is shitty?


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## Domeskier (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> Probably. I'm no good with names. Just remember reading reports of similar, massive online abuse.
> 
> Zhu Yi may have been second tier in the US. She's probably top tier in China. Or she wouldn't have been chosen to represent China.


Certainly not favored for the podium and certainly not letting down any reasonable expectations.  But you're right - the Americans criticizing Gu for skiing for China are just a bunch of middle class nationalists with limited imaginations and a bad case of sour grapes, while the Chinese criticizing Zhu are just passionate sports fans reacting without a tinge of xenophobia to the mediocre performance of a forum-shopping second-tier athlete in the same way they would any home grown athlete whose best hope was maybe a top 20 finish.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> In what way it is shitty?



Being 15 and believing you need drugs to get an advantage?


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Being 15 and believing you need drugs to get an advantage?


15 year olds are not known for their maturity and judgements.

Her "believe" in drug to get an advantage is no more evidence of a shittier life than those who found it fun to steal stop signs!


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> Certainly not favored for the podium and certainly not letting down any reasonable expectations.


She may have let down some "reasonable" expectation of not falling and being last!

But sports is just that, 4 years of preparation and 3 minutes on ice. Being judged in 3 minutes for all of those 4 or more years of hard work. It takes a special type to perform when under pressure. Luck also plays a big part in it too.

Certain kind of sport fans are not my favorite group. Witness footfall fans in Europe rioting when their team lost (or out of control "celebration" when their team won!). Why they wrap their own happiness in their "sport hero" is beyond me. I don't know many people like that personally. But every time I hear someone criticizing an individual athlete's performance harshly, it's almost always from people who never done it themselves.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> 15 year olds are not known for their maturity and judgements.
> 
> Her "believe" in drug to get an advantage is no more evidence of a shittier life than those who found it fun to steal stop signs!



Right, so she should have family and coaches guiding her to make the right choices.  Chances are they didn't.  That is shitty


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Right, so she should have family and coaches guiding her to make the right choices.  Chances are they didn't.  That is shitty


I'm pretty sure her coaches had a lot to answer for. But that's true for all teenagers. They are helped or hurt by the right or wrong guidance of their mentors. I just don't see it being all that different.


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## Smellytele (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> 15 year olds are not known for their maturity and judgements.
> 
> Her "believe" in drug to get an advantage is no more evidence of a shittier life than those who found it fun to steal stop signs!


Wtf are you fuckin saying you fuckin moron!
Are you actually equating stealing stop signs to being coerced by adults to dope. She didn’t do it on her own to take this heart medicine.
Every post you just prove more and more what a fucking idiot you are.


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Every post you just prove more and more what a fucking idiot you are.


Every post you just prove you're so closed minded and live in your own little world with no idea of what goes on in the rest of the world.

But hey, being closed minded is a cut above idiot and far above moron!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

Hmmmmm a child stealing a stop sign vs a parent or coach coercing them into taking drugs that have proven to shorten people's lives because it might make them more money.  

Fair comparison for certain


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Hmmmmm a child stealing a stop sign vs a parent or coach coercing them into taking drugs that have proven to shorten people's lives because it might make them more money.
> 
> Fair comparison for certain


What's the consequence of a missing stop sign? Potentially a traffic death of some innocent stranger!

Is that less severe than cheating to be no 1?

Harming others vs harming self may not be "fair" comparison. But it's no more or less "shitty" of an environment to be in!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

Yes totally


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## Smellytele (Feb 11, 2022)

abc said:


> Every post you just prove you're so closed minded and live in your own little world with no idea of what goes on in the rest of the world.
> 
> But hey, being closed minded is a cut above idiot and far above moron!


Wow a post without a question. 

I do applaud the lack of your own self awareness of your own closed mind. Always trying to prove everyone else wrong. Not sure I have ever read a post by you agreeing with anything or anyone. Who is in their own little world thinking they are in a great big world of righteousness?


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

It beats not even knowing there's a bigger world


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Not sure I have ever read a post by you agreeing with anything or anyone.


No, I don't "post" just to agree. That's what a "like" button is for.

But looks like you want a louder echo chamber?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

I wonder how many stop signs there are worldwide.  Scary amount of opportunities for 15 year olds to kill people through mischievousness


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## abc (Feb 11, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Scary amount of opportunities for 15 year olds to kill people through mischievousness


Probably not quite as much opportunity than grabbing a semi-automatic rifle?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 11, 2022)

Well I'm raising my kids on steroids to be biathletes, so that one doesn't bother me so much


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## abc (Feb 12, 2022)

biathletes?

What kind of parents would be so cruel to force their kids to be outside in the cold when they should have been warm and cozy in front of a game console?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 12, 2022)

Absolutely dumping at the Alpine venue now. Haha


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## Hawk (Feb 13, 2022)

Wow this has disinterested while I have been skiing the last 2 days.  Skiing has been rather awsome at sugarbush but has changed overnight.  Back into the freezer.  

ABC seems to be someone who has been around a while like some of us and definately has molded his own opinions.  He likes to challenge people his his thoughts to see what people can come up with for debate. I disagree with him quite a bit but that is the nature of the internet.  I would bet that some of the things he says are said in a way to stoke the debate.  It's all good.  Name calling is not needed.  I guess skiing, my coffee and sunday morning jazz has mellowed me out.   Maybe time for a wake and bake for some of us.  LOL


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 13, 2022)

abc is a she, which somehow adds to the bizarre contrarian nature of all of her posts. no sexism intended even tho it prob sounds sexist as fuck.

its kinda dumping in jersey city this morning with maybe an inch down so far.


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## Hawk (Feb 13, 2022)

Woops.  I guess I missed something in translation.  Either way it is the internet and without face to face converstaion, it's really hard to understand what people are all about.  My wife has told me on several occasions to "chill out, you sound like an asshole".  She is a wise women.  I tend to listen.  LOL


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## machski (Feb 13, 2022)

Look, the Russian 15 year old girl tested positive for a heart medication.  Now, I don't know if she ever got Covid but that can cause Myocarditis.  So is it possible she suffered from that and physicians recommended the drug to help alleviate that?  I think we need more context before crucifying her and her coaches.  Now, if there was no medical reason to take the drug, well then we have a different story.  But I have heard nothing about her medical history so I'll reserve judgement until the hearing.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I thought at the time that if I couldn't make the US team, maybe I could compete for Ireland due to my ancestry.   Would I have been a traitor?



No.

The nuance being missed in this thread by a few (IMHO intentionally for the sake of being able to argue on the internet) is that in almost 100% of these situations, the person playing/competing for the nation they have little connection to is only doing so because there is 0% chance he/she could play/compete for the nation they are "really" from.  Happens probably most often in soccer AFAIK.  Seems lame to me, but I get that they're skilled, love the sport and want the opportunity.  Seems even lamer to me when the person isnt skilled.  For instance, there's a girl from New Jersey representing Ecuador in alpine skiing, and frankly she's not very good.  Raced some in college, but not even achieving much success at that lower level.

Contrastingly, what makes the Gu situation so abnormal & bizarre is that unlike all these situations we're accustomed to in the above, she is literally the best in the world & easily would qualify for the nation she's really from.  It's nakedly obvious the decision to represent China is solely to squeeze out several more million dollars, even if that means renouncing US citizenship, turning her back on America, and (IMO) worst of all, representing a Communist nation guilty of daily horrific atrocities.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2022)

I feel horrible for not only the 15 year old Russian girl, but the other two prepubescent girls on that team that _"love skating so much that they train as much as 12 hours per day"_ for Russia.

I read a whole takedown on this situation last week (NYT I believe), and it's really ******* sick.

The TLDR is this:  Basically the only reason they can do the quad jumps is because they're so young, skinny, and non-developed, because as a woman reaches adulthood her physique changes & as such there are no adult women in the world who can do quads, only these little girls.  And in skating, you get more points for doing the harder tricks later in the routine = enter the dangerous heart medication.  As such, my guess is all 3 of those little Russian girls on that team are on this med, but the others haven't been caught.   Anyway, the Russians have gamed the figure skating scoring system with these late quad jumps by little girls because they generate so many points that it doesnt matter that the Russian girls program isnt as technical or interesting in other skating ways.  In fact the Russian who won gold at 15 last Olympics isnt on the team now even though she's only 19 years old. LOL


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2022)

machski said:


> So is it possible she suffered from that and physicians recommended the drug to help alleviate that?  I think we need more context before crucifying her and her coaches.



It's a banned drug which is not allowed for precisely the very reason for which it would be incredibly beneficial for a figure skater to take it, and by an athlete representing a nation with a systemic athletic drugging department so pervasive that they are banned from competing under their nation's name.  Personally, I don't need to wait for more context.


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## NYDB (Feb 14, 2022)

Due to their track record, Russia gets Zero benefit of the doubt on doping.


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## skimagic (Feb 14, 2022)

Another reason to not watch the olympics, Snowboarder Julia Marino wasn't allowed to use her Prada Snowboard in the upcoming Big Air event without covering the word Prada on the bottom. So a cover is put on it which changed the boards performance causing her to fall, get injured during a training run, and then pulls out of the event.

I really don't get this since Chloe Kim had ROXY visible on her board. Do skiers have the manufacturer visible on their skis?


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 14, 2022)

im no expert on snowboards, but prada is a luxury fashion brand. i know they make goggles, which kind of tracks because they make sunglasses, but i'd be surprised if they are the manufacturer of a snowboard. in which case the prada on the board would be an advertisement, not just the manufacturer of the equipment.

that's total conjecture tho. prada may make snowboards. pretty weird if they did. imma google it.

edit - they do make a snowboard. and the goggles are oakley prisms with a prada strap. fancy.


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## djd66 (Feb 14, 2022)

quick google search,... yes, apparently they do make snowboards.  https://www.prada.com/us/en/women/p..._Linea_Rossa_snowboard.2XD027_2DWM_F0002.html


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## JimG. (Feb 15, 2022)

machski said:


> Look, the Russian 15 year old girl tested positive for a heart medication.  Now, I don't know if she ever got Covid but that can cause Myocarditis.  So is it possible she suffered from that and physicians recommended the drug to help alleviate that?  I think we need more context before crucifying her and her coaches.  Now, if there was no medical reason to take the drug, well then we have a different story.  But I have heard nothing about her medical history so I'll reserve judgement until the hearing.


Really?

Not to worry the whole sorry situation has been explained by the Russians. She drank from a glass her grandfather, who conveniently takes this very banned substance, drank from and she ingested the high levels of this forbidden drug from his traces of saliva on the glass.

I have a nice bridge for sale if you are interested. The Olympics are a total joke.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 17, 2022)

Gus is skiing for the UK. BURN THE TRAITOROUS WITCH


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

Post 218 looks pretty good again.

EDIT:  And unfortunately Post 97 too.  Geez I feel horrible for her.  Tonight was a cake walk to gold too given the results after the Downhill run.  This is 100% mental.


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## machski (Feb 17, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Post 218 looks pretty good again.
> 
> EDIT:  And unfortunately Post 97 too.  Geez I feel horrible for her.  Tonight was a cake walk to gold too given the results after the Downhill run.  This is 100% mental.


Man, this has been brutal.  Super nice interview with Gisin post race and super gracious gesture in seeking out MS after her win and giving her a huge hug.  She will bounce back.  Kind of starting to wonder if gear setup by the US the may have played a part here.  Only one of 4 US women finished the Slalom portion.


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 17, 2022)

machski said:


> Kind of starting to wonder if gear setup by the US the may have played a part here.  Only one of 4 US women finished the Slalom portion.


 I had the same thought.

although with MS I think she got the YIPs...


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## tumbler (Feb 17, 2022)

She's turning into the Charles Barkley of golf


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 17, 2022)

MS' instagram stories this morning a bit whacky...


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## fbrissette (Feb 17, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Contrastingly, what makes the Gu situation so abnormal & bizarre is that unlike all these situations we're accustomed to in the above, she is literally the best in the world & easily would qualify for the nation she's really from.  It's nakedly obvious the decision to represent China is solely to squeeze out several more million dollars, even if that means renouncing US citizenship, turning her back on America, and (IMO) worst of all, representing a Communist nation guilty of daily horrific atrocities.


From everything that has transpired in the media, it's fair to guess that it's very unlikely that she has surrendred her US password, and that China has agreed to an exceptional measure of dual citizenship provided that Gu would not acknoledge this publicly.   I've spent quite a big of time in China for my work, and I can't fathom why any educated wealthy person (which Gu is by any standard) would trade a US passport (or any top western passport) for a Chinese one for more money,  no matter how obscene the amount.


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## Domeskier (Feb 17, 2022)

fbrissette said:


> From everything that has transpired in the media, it's fair to guess that it's very unlikely that she has surrendred her US password, and that China has agreed to an exceptional measure of dual citizenship provided that Gu would not acknoledge this publicly.   I've spent quite a big of time in China for my work, and I can't fathom why any educated wealthy person (which Gu is by any standard) would trade a US passport (or any top western passport) for a Chinese one for more money,  no matter how obscene the amount.


One of the US hockey guys playing for China confirmed he was not required to give up his US citizenship.  I would be amazed if she didn't get the same deal.  Seems to be some minor backlash against her in Chinese social media for her preferential treatment, especially when she condescendingly told her critics to download a VPN if they wanted the same e-freedom she has (before the government censored the post, at least...).


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

Domeskier said:


> One of the US hockey guys playing for China confirmed he was not required to give up his US citizenship.  I would be amazed if she didn't get the same deal.  Seems to be some minor backlash against her in Chinese social media for her preferential treatment, especially when she condescendingly told her critics to download a VPN if they wanted the same e-freedom she has (before the government censored the post, at least...).


She is pretty clueless. Even for an elite teenager.

Guless?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

fbrissette said:


> From everything that has transpired in the media, it's fair to guess that it's very unlikely that she has surrendred her US password, and that China has agreed to an exceptional measure of dual citizenship *provided that Gu would not acknoledge this publicly.*



If true,that would just be the cherry on top of her being a terrible person.  Cant let the peasants, the commoners, and the enslaved know I'm receiving preferential treatment.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

JimG. said:


> *She is pretty clueless. Even for an elite teenager.*



Clueless?   Far from it, she's calculating, remorseless, and methodical.  Screw human rights, screw murder, screw slavery, and screw your country.  Go for the big bags of money.  Bonus points for saying this odd decision is because actually, you're also Mother Theresa.


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## jimmywilson69 (Feb 17, 2022)

I thought you were a capitalist?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I thought you were a capitalist?


And no fan of Communism; or the human slavery, murder & genocide that comes with it.


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Clueless?   Far from it, she's calculating, remorseless, and methodical.  Screw human rights, screw murder, screw slavery, and screw your country.  Go for the big bags of money.  Bonus points for saying this odd decision is because actually, you're also Mother Theresa.


Or I could go completely over the top like you did.

I just don't care enough about her or the Olympics in general to get as worked up as you. 

The opposite of love is not hate...it is indifference.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

JimG. said:


> I just don't care enough about her or the Olympics in general to get as worked up as you.



You think this is about the Olympics?   lol.  Okay.









						The Privilege of Being Eileen Gu and How China Uses Her as a Propaganda Weapon
					

China benefits from Gu's victories and is heaping its resources behind the California-born woman.




					www.thequint.com


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> You think this is about the Olympics?   lol.  Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No. The Olympics is theater. Like a reality show. What she is doing is real world and not something I support. Not that my support matters there are plenty of fools who will cheer for her.

But I just don't really care. About anything that's related to the Olympics or these Machiavellian douchebags who want me to believe they are "leaders" or somehow benefit society. What a joke!


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## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2022)

Hmmm

I get paid quite well by a Chinese company.  Much better than I would doing the same job for one of our American or European competitors. 

Does that make me a supporter of genocide?


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Hmmm
> 
> I get paid quite well by a Chinese company.  Much better than I would doing the same job for one of our American or European competitors.
> 
> Does that make me a supporter of genocide?


My question to you would be your opinion on how you would be treated by your Chinese employer if you were a vocal opponent of the human rights abuses the Chinese perpetrate. I'm talking about fundraising and organizing public opposition to those practices. 

Do you think you would be punished or fired or do you think it would be ignored?


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## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2022)

JimG. said:


> My question to you would be your opinion on how you would be treated by your Chinese employer if you were a vocal opponent of the human rights abuses the Chinese perpetrate. I'm talking about fundraising and organizing public opposition to those practices.
> 
> Do you think you would be punished or fired or do you think it would be ignored?



I'd likely be fired if as part of those efforts I identified myself as an employee of a Chinese company.


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## abc (Feb 17, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I'd likely be fired if as part of those efforts I identified myself as an employee of a Chinese company.


I'd be fired if I identified myself as employee of my non-Chinese owned company in any kind of political! activity.

I'm free to engage in any political action as an individual. But I can't use the company's name in any of those activities. It's clearly spelled out in the policy. 

That said, if your Chinese company fire you for political activity as an individual, it maybe against the law...


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I'd likely be fired if as part of those efforts I identified myself as an employee of a Chinese company.


So you would remain anonymous if you were to protest.

I would not work for a company that denied me my right to my personal opinions and my right to express those opinions. To me silence is tacit approval.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2022)

JimG. said:


> So you would remain anonymous if you were to protest.
> 
> I would not work for a company that denied me my right to my personal opinions and my right to express those opinions. To me silence is tacit approval.




Well, I'm generally not one to join in any sort of protest.   So, this honestly doesn't really apply to me.  

Fact is the world is full of multinational companies and many of them from China.  I do interface with my Chinese colleagues quite regularly, but the conversations are 100% business related.


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## Domeskier (Feb 17, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Well, I'm generally not one to join in any sort of protest.   So, this honestly doesn't really apply to me.
> 
> Fact is the world is full of multinational companies and many of them from China.  I do interface with my Chinese colleagues quite regularly, but the conversations are 100% business related.


For what it's worth, there are quite a few opinions that employees of non-Chinese companies should probably keep private too if they don't want to be chased out of their jobs by irate twitter mobs.  In any event, China is such a huge part of the international economy that most multinational companies (and their customers) can arguably be accused of propping up the regime regardless of who ultimately owns them.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

The problem isn't so much American companies selling a product in China, the problem is American companies bowing to whatever demand(s) the Communist government imposes on them to do so.   Fortunately, American citizens are finally waking-up to this realization, becoming well-educated on the matter, and in bipartisan fashion to boot.  It makes me hopeful when I see the fairly large backlash the KO, DIS, and NBAs of the world are getting for Xi bootlicking. 

Hell, even the sponsors who paid millions to sponsor the Beijing Olympics have basically bowed out = big piles of wasted money and getting nothing in return.  The ones who have made use of their "sponsorship" are doing so without mentioning the word "China" or "Beijing" if you're paying close attention, and this is not normal.   These spots usually always say something like, "Official sponsor of the London game" etc....  Not this time!


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## jimk (Feb 20, 2022)

Wow, I never thought about certain physical risks that come with being world class athletes/racers in Winter Olympic competitions:








						Cross-country skiing-Finn Remi suffers frozen penis in mass start race
					

The men's 50km mass start race at the Beijing Games was shortened to 30km but that did little to help Finland's Remi Lindholm, who needed a heat pack at the end of the race to thaw out a particularly sensitive body part.




					www.reuters.com
				




BTW, I haven't watched a single second of the Winter Olympics this time around.  But I did ski eight days myself with a road trip to San Diego and Las Vegas sandwiched in the middle between the opening and closing Olympic ceremonies.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 21, 2022)

TIL frozen penis is an actual thing.


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## abc (Feb 22, 2022)

jimk said:


> BTW, I haven't watched a single second of the Winter Olympics this time around. But I did ski eight days myself with a road trip to San Diego and Las Vegas sandwiched in the middle between the opening and closing Olympic ceremonies.


I lucked out with my plan to cross country ski in Canada during a portion of the Olympics. Got to watch the rest of the world athletes in the Olympics (not just Americans) made the trip doubly enjoyable. The skiing aren't bad either. (except them anti-vaxxers protects shut us out of the restaurants in downtown Ottawa -- frist world problems)


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## Alex.moon (Feb 22, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Hmmm
> 
> I get paid quite well by a Chinese company.  Much better than I would doing the same job for one of our American or European competitors.
> 
> Does that make me a supporter of genocide?


I think it's not surprising. China is developing rapidly


----------

