# Magic Mtn 01/09/05



## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

Based on the 6" of snow that had fallen in Ludlow by about 8:00pm, I decided to take a quick trip to Magic Mtn and ski a few runs before going home yesterday. When I had checked the conditions report on Saturday night, they were reporting 8" of new snow and 10 trails open. We arrived at Magic at 9:00am and I purchased a morning ticket for $39 good until 12:30 as we wanted to get an early start back home. To my suprise the trail count had grown to 25 trails allowing for more mtn exploration. My first run was down Sorcerer which had an easy 10" - 12" of very light powder. While there were tracks on the trail, they were from Saturday and they had been about 75% filled in by new snow, so my new tracks were the first of the day.    

My second run was down Wizard which also had deep powder that was more tracked out, but still alot of fun. After those two powder runs I skied with my son down Magic Carpet from top to bottom and the trails had perfectly groomed packed powder with NO ice anywhere on the entire run.

The staff at the mountain are extremly friendly and curtious. It is really a shame that the mountain only had about 50 cars in the parking lot when we left at noon as the conditions were stellar and probably the best of the year so far. While the red chair to the summit is very slow, this allows for powder skiing to remain for a long time. I guess that most skiers preffer the groomed 
spit and polish of Bromley and Stratton.

The mountain has a new grooming policy of leaving powder on both sides of any trails that they groom, so any skier from begginer to expert can enjoy fresh tracks.


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## skijay (Jan 10, 2005)

It is refreshing to hear positive comments about Magic!  I hope to ski there early in February.


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

Yes Magic Is a fun place to ski with some REALLY steep terrain, unfortunatly there was no pre-existing cover on most of the steep terrain and my ski's are only a few month old, so I skied on the conservative side, this and I was also skiing alone and I do not know the mountain that well. If anyone has the chance to go there today or before the rain hits this week, you will NOT be disappointed.

On a side note, we drove home on route 30 past Maple Valley which was totally abandoned with high weeds/grass on the trails. Also the rain/snow line on I-91 is around the former Mtn Tom area, with massive amounts of freezing rain north of Hartford.


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

I just posted two pictures from Magic, this is my first time posting pictures and I somehow posted the same two pictures twice, oops.


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## Greg (Jan 10, 2005)

I deleted the duplicates for you. Thanks!


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

Thanks Greg, I also added some pictures from Okemo. It's hard to take pictures with a four year old, but at least you can get some idea of the weather/conditions.

My one gripe with Magic Mtn by the way, was that they indicated a chair lift on the lower left part of the mountain servicing begginer terrain. Apparently that lift is only partially built with just the top and bottom terminals and two lift towers installed. This lift was supposed to be finished this year, but they "ran"
out of time before winter came, or so I was told. Anyway my son had fun skiing from the top on Magic Carpet even though the trail was a bit long for him.


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## sledhaulingmedic (Jan 10, 2005)

Glad you enjoyed it.  I was supposed to be there today, but my truck made other plans for me :evil:    

Maybe with some luck, I'll be back up tomorrow.  Magic isn't perfect, but terrain isn't one of it's problems!


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

You will enjoy a trip there tommorow is the weather holds, just beware of hidden undergrowth and stream beds on some of the steep terrain. I hit a stream bed at the junction of Wizard and Sorcerer and I kept on going while my ski's did not, I did a double binding release and a 4' forward face plant. Luckily nothing was injured or damaged and I resumed skiing after composing myself and brushing off lots of snow.


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## Talisman (Jan 10, 2005)

I was at Magic on 1/9, Loaf and probably saw you or at least your traks.  Sunday was a fantatstic ski day with fresh snow, sunny, no wind and warmed up to the 20's. Magic had the Red Chair running with 6 to 8 inches of fresh powder. I didn't see any ropes, but did see some Thin Cover signs. The light powder was over virtually no base, but I had planned ahead and brought my nastiest rock skis. 

Wizard was reasonable, but has some water bars with water in the ditch that had to be hopped. Broomstick was fun with a few manadory stream hops. I didn't ski Master Magician or Red Line, but others laid down some tracks. Heart of the Magican and Sorcerer held some nice powder. Lucifer was reasonably well covered and fun skiing. Talisman had some great lines. All of the West side trails had some p-tex shredding rocks, but it was worth it. 

Most of the East side trails had been groomed (still lots of powder shots along the sides) and were legitimate packed powder. Some of the grooming tilled up dirt, rocks and twigs which added to the challenge provided by the water bars. 

Magic had the snow guns going on Kinderspiel and were making a whale where Lucifer joins Video Blvd. 
A weekend powder day at last! I need to get busy with a p-tex candle and a scraper to repair two core shots.


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

Yes there were several water bars on Sorcerer and one that was buried that I did not get the chance to "hop" over. My son had a hard time when we took the trail to the left that lead to Kinderspiel. He did not feel comfortable at the trail junction where the snow cannon was on and I took off his skis and he walked down a bit to where the trail was not so steep to continue skiing.

I did not get to ski alot more of the powder because my son was desperate to ski with me so we had fun on Magic Capet which was WAY WAY better conditions wise than anything at Okemo.

Why does Magic not utilize more of the 87% snowmaking capacity that they have? Do they not have the funds for such large scale snowmaking? I think that they should try to groom as much of the snow that they have before the rain and 50+ temps come this week or they will lose alot of their cover.

I also noticed a groomed trail on skiers left off the top of the red chair, does this lead to the abandoned area that I have read about?

This was only my second time at Magic in 5 years, but It's much more fun and challenging than anything in S Vermont, they should really advertise the fact that they have a half day AM TICKET, this would bring in alot more people on sunday that are looking to leave for home early in the day.


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## Talisman (Jan 10, 2005)

Magic doesn't have the funds or the compressor capacity to run their snow making system.  Pipes cover 87% of the mountain but there is rarely base snow made on most trails which is a shame because the terrain is magnificent.

The groomers at Magic were awesome and the lack of crowds makes skiing fun.

The abandoned area at Magic is Timberside and is on skiers right and there were snow mobile tracks on the connector trail at the summit.  There is also grooming done near the communication tower at the summit.  There is a poorly marked trail called White Out that had been groomed that was also fun.


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

I was just looking at the NELSAP website about the Timberside area on the other side of Magic Mtn. Is it possible to ski this area safely from Magic or have the trails grown back in again? How do you get back to the base area from any of those trails?

I agree that it is sad that Magic cannot make more snow on the steeper trails, especially with the snowmaking pipe already in place. Some of the pipe looked on the rusty side and if it had not been used in a while that might cause problems.

Perhaps a judicious investor may come along and revitalize some of the facilities like what happened at Saddleback. It would be nice for the mountain to remain fully functional but rustic as that area of Vermont does not need another Stratton/Okemo.


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## Talisman (Jan 10, 2005)

To get back from Timberside you either need to spot a car or find a friendly snow mobiler.  It is possible to ski across part way to Timberside and then return on the old come back trail.  Timberside is fairly grown in and has a fair amount of snow mobile activity.

For Magic to be successful either there needs to be more natural snow or the snow making needs to cover some of the steeps with base snow.  Rusty pipes aren't an issue, it is damaged valves and piping damaged from freezing that are the issues besides lack of snow making water and compressed air capacity.


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## loafer89 (Jan 10, 2005)

I think that what I meant by the rusty snowmaking pipes was that they did not look like they had been used in quite some time, so you may be right with damaged valves and pipe stress due to freeze up. The flip side to no snow making base was that there was no ice underneath most of the snow, unlike at Okemo.

Honestly Magic Mtn is not a place that I would ski without a major dump of snow occuring beforehand like yesterday, because the 10 trails that they had opened on saturday would not justify a visit. The last time that I skied there in March of 1999 they had recieved a 16" storm and the skiing was excellent. I went there yesterday looking for powder and no crowds and the mountain deliverd both.

Still I look forward to skiing there again in the future, the terrain is challenging and the ticket prices are reasonable, I especially like the fact that they have an AM ticket. Maybe Magic will see better days ahead and hopefully they will do good this year despite the weather.

Will the begginer chair be completed in the near future?


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## marcski (Jan 10, 2005)

This is such a pleasure to read a positive thread about magic.  As Talisman and SLED know, there is way too much negative chat about magic.  

loafter...Magic by far and away has the best terrain south of killington.  Magic just needs snow...in a good snow year, i believe it was 2001-02 or perhaps the year before that.   Magic was amazing.  Most of the mountain was open for most of the season. And, the lack of crowds...and great snow makes it such a pleasure...the only noise i heard on the slopes was me.....screaming for joy!


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## riverc0il (Jan 10, 2005)

> Honestly Magic Mtn is not a place that I would ski without a major dump of snow occuring beforehand like yesterday, because the 10 trails that they had opened on saturday would not justify a visit.


i have skied magic on occasion not after a dump when it was fully open and it's still a rocking mountain to ski even if there are no recent dumps.  once enough base has been built and the rocks are all covered and everything is skiable, it really doesn't need a dump any more than any other mountain.  it's just getting up to the 100% open mark takes a lot longer than other mountains without the snow making factor.


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## Talisman (Jan 11, 2005)

Magic holds snow for days after a storm if there has been no warm temps.  Unlike many other areas Magic doesn't get tracked out 55 minutes after the lifts open on a powder day.  I agree with River when most tarils are open Magic is worth skiing even if there hasn't been a dump.  Magic also doesn't recover well from big thaws and refreezes.


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## loafer89 (Jan 11, 2005)

What I meant by not wanting to go without a big snowfall applied mostly to the conditions on saturday VS sunday as skiing there with only the snowmaking trails probably would not have provided good skiing conditions. I like the terrain and the rustic atmosphere,  just like I find skiing at Plattekill, Bobcat and Saddleback appealing. I do not understand all the people who bash the place, if you want powder puff resorts and people who kiss your @ss, go somewhere else. I went there knowing that the lifts were slow, trails had thin cover and grooming was not imaculate and I had more fun than at Okemo at any given time on Saturday.

I was saddened by the complete lack of people there on one of the best days of the year. As I have said before they REALLY should adverstise the am ticket that they sell, as it is not mentioned on the website (I believe). The mountain is on the way home from Killington/Okemo. I am not advocating more crowds, but they look like they need all the extra money that they can get, and alot of skiers like a half day ticket on Sunday.


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## riverc0il (Jan 11, 2005)

> I was saddened by the complete lack of people there on one of the best days of the year.


i've said the same thing before.



> I am not advocating more crowds,


i am!


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## beswift (Jan 13, 2005)

*what to do.*

Magic has serious pro's and con's.   I was skiing it every year until last.  The year before I was up there on a 20 below day during the week and at the opening of the lifts shared it with one patroller and a tele-skier.  They don't have much money and on the flip side sell the cheapest season passes for an expert mountain in the Northeast.   The chairs are antiquated but not maintained like the single at Mad River.  One day I was up there and they were sopping wet in the morning.  Crusty snow'ice and no easy way to clean it off.   With the way things are going at the nearby areas like Stratton, I wouldn't doubt that some day a big developer will take it over.  Manchester is a N.Y. watering hole.  Ascutney benefited from a new ownership and put in modern equipment.  The real estate pro's in Vt. used to talk about the Bob Newhart syndrome when dealing with Inns.  Often  you see some N.Y. Metro area couple with grown kids buy up some resort real estate with their life's savings.  That's what happened at Ascutney.  Back to Magic, right now it doesn't attract the Manchester weekend crouds, but that will be the only way they could make good money.   Access from Massachusetts and N.Y. is difficult.  Day-trippers can make it to other areas more easily.  It's a great part of Vt., though.  Windham, Chester, Arlington and other towns have to be the best examples of rural New England you can find.  The roads, though, can be trecherous.  I discovered it for myself one spring back in the psychedelic 60's when hitch-hiking from Manchester to Brattleboro.  The cars and rides in that area can be quite scarce.  It's quite a lonely adventure and I did a lot of hiking.   Lo and Behold, I found the Magic Mountain!!!!


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## loafer89 (Jan 13, 2005)

I really did not find that Magic Mtn was all that difficult to get too. From Okemo it took us about 45 minutes and that was with snow covered roads and all. I understand what you mean about it being a little bit out of the way for day trip skiers. We figured that it would be a nice way to end our ski weekend by going south to Magic and then heading down route 30 to Brattleboro, so by the time we got to I-91 we were almost out of Vermont and closer to home. 

The lifts at Magic are on the dated side and not in the best of shape, that I cannot argue, and the fact that the new snow under some lift towers was stained red from rust comming off the lift wheels and sheaves was a bit unsettling. This was not all that different from the old days at Saddleback with duct tape holding together some of the T-bars together, I could care less how I get up the mountain so long as it is safe.

Plattekill, Bobcat, Magic, Mad River Glen and Saddleback have that old fashioned family feel to them that I really like. I hope that Camden and Black Mtn provide the same kind of feel when I ski them next month. It's hard to believe that both mentioned places only charge $18 for 1,000' + vertical.

Hopefully alot of the smaller places will stay in business because skiing right now at the larger resorts for a weekend is hardly affordable, we spent an easy $800 last weekend just for two days of skiing, and the prices just keep climbing higher with each passing year. My son will be 5 years old next week and I wonder what skiing will cost when he is my age??


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## beswift (Jan 14, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> I really did not find that Magic Mtn was all that difficult to get too.  then heading down route 30 to Brattleboro, so by the time we got to I-91 we were almost out of Vermont and closer to home.


  I don't know where home is for you, but travel to Southern Vt. from Boston involves using Rt. 2 (State) which is a lot more difficult to negotiate than Rt. 89 (Interstate) which serves central Vt. (Okemo to Stowe).  I usually have stayed in Brattleboro and then drove up to Magic in the morning.  It is 20 miles to Chester from 91 as I remember.  I have tried taking the dirt road which passes over the Mtn. range the East side of the Ski resorts and can make it shorter.  Unfortunately, often it is too icy to allow a vehicle to climb it.  Ascutney, a comparable resort, is much easier to *get too*


			
				loafer89 said:
			
		

> I could care less how I get up the mountain so long as it is safe.


  Unfortunately, you are in a rare minority.  After using the high speed lifts, Magic's chairs can be very uncomfortable.  Not only are they slow, they can be uncomfortable and awkward to load.  It is almost impossible for the attendants to brush off the ice and snow as the padding is rough and ragged.  You may like skiing with with a wet crotch, but many don't.  It often collects crusty snow at the summit while running in the morning so they have to constantly try and brush it off.  If there were a lot of traffic, this would not be such a problem.  However, with only a handful of riders, the clean seats are rare indeed.  These older chairs with footrests were built for leather boots which are shorter than the new plastic ones.  A large sized boot can get jammed in them.  Unloading can be a nightmare and at best slows the ride down even more.  The angle for back support on many of these old chairs is horrible as well.   If safety is your only concern, it is compromised by all these factors.


			
				loafer89 said:
			
		

> Plattekill, Bobcat, Magic, Mad River Glen and Saddleback have that old fashioned family feel to them that I really like.


  I have no idea of what that actually is, but I almost never have seen families at Magic during the week.  The lodge can be rather depressing, especially when the conditions suk.  Mad River wouldn't qualify in my book as a family mtn., either.  It is actually an expert's mountain, usually filled with good skiers, young adults, telemark locals, and their regular season ticket holders.  They have a small intermediates area with an even smaller beginner's.  The single chair certainly isn't conducive to families riding together, either.  


			
				loafer89 said:
			
		

> Hopefully alot of the smaller places will stay in business because skiing right now at the larger resorts for a weekend is hardly affordable


  I agree with you on that, but you can't survive this business unless you generate some kind of steady traffic.  Supporting your small resort by running at a loss on your big-hearted and romantic appeal gets old fast.


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## beswift (Jan 14, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> I was just looking at the NELSAP website about the Timberside area on the other side of Magic Mtn.


  I can't find this Timberside on the NELSAP website.  I don't know what you mean by >>rustic<<, either.  Perhaps the Moosilauke lodge or the Stowe lodge would be considered rustic, but I have never thought that the lodge at Magic merited that term.


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## loafer89 (Jan 14, 2005)

First off let me respond to the "family" feel by saying that I like resorts that are not owned by multi million dollar corporations that are more interested in getting the $65-$70 out of my wallet and could care less about why I am there or if I am having a good time. When I arrived at Magic, the girl at the ticket window "OFFERED" me a half day AM ticket without me asking for it, try to find another resort that will do that. The people in the front office were friendly with everyone that came into the lodge and I was given informative tips on where to ski.

Regarding the red double chair, the seats that I sat on where 100% perfectly clean and comfortable, yes the lift is slow, but it's better than walking up the hill!!!! As for the unloading ramp, my 4 year old son had NO problem getting down it despite it's steepness. The Magic carpet trail was groomed to perfection and was much better than the groomed runs at Okemo and my son had a great time.

I live on Long Island, so like I said traveling south on 30 was not a problem and is more senic than the interstate, as a big fan of Sugarloaf which is far from everwhere, I am used to uneasy access to ski areas. Magic was very easy to get to from Okemo and we plan to ski there much more when we are in Vermont.

If you are looking for the Timberside area on NELSAP go to the southern Vermont section and click on the Timber Ridge/Glebe Mountain Farm link and you will find all the information about this abandoned area that is on Magic Mtn.

These old fashioned ski areas can survive/thrive if people are willing to look past the deficiency's and concentrate on the skiing itself. Ski Plattekill is thriving on that old fashined no BS skiing theme, When I first started skiing there nearly 10 years ago, about 25% of the chairs on the triple had hazard tape on them on them due to the poor condition of the lift. Now they have rebuilt the lift, installed a double chair and offer some of the best skiing in the Catskills.

If I have taken your comments at heart a little too much I apologize, however I had a great time at Magic and I cant understand why people bitch and moan about this place at every ski website that I visit, if people don't want to ski there , stay away, it's as easy as that.


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## beswift (Jan 14, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> First off let me respond to the "family" feel by saying that I like resorts that are not owned by multi million dollar corporations that are more interested in getting the $65-$70 out of my wallet and could care less about why I am there or if I am having a good time. When I arrived at Magic, the girl at the ticket window "OFFERED" me a half day AM ticket without me asking for it, try to find another resort that will do that. The people in the front office were friendly with everyone that came into the lodge and I was given informative tips on where to ski.


  Yes, the people are nice, but I actually have enjoyed the people at Killington, Sugarbush, and other areas just as well.  It does depend on when you ski, however.


			
				loafer89 said:
			
		

> Regarding the red double chair, the seats that I sat on where 100% perfectly clean and comfortable, yes the lift is slow, but it's better than walking up the hill!!!!


  Again, it prabably wasn't sleeting or snowing the day you were there.  Of course other resorts aren't strangers to wet and icy seats.  As my post stated, it was during the week that they don't get the skiers to keep the seats clear.  By the way, I am not complaining so much as making it obvious why they aren't attracting crouds.  You may not like the attitude of the general skiing public, but it exists.  


			
				loafer89 said:
			
		

> Magic was very easy to get to from Okemo and we plan to ski there much more when we are in Vermont.


   Again, I find the drive pictoresque as well, but I understand why it isn't on the beaten track of many skiers.  I do hope that you return and enjoy it, too.


			
				loafer89 said:
			
		

> If you are looking for the Timberside area on NELSAP


Actually, I dug up an old trail map I have from when it was open and operating. I plan on scanning it and offering it for viewing some time this weekend..  Oh, by the way, if you like these kinds of out of the way ski areas, try Ragged Mtn. in N.H.  There's one area that I didn't enjoy seeing modernized, but it might still be something you  and your family would enjoy.  I used to tele ski there often a decade ago.  They widened the main trail at the top since then and put in a high speed lift.  There's a terrific New England style trail which meanders through the woods to the left of the skier.  They didn't touch that.  Futhermore, they have a great lodge which is big and roomy.


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## loafer89 (Jan 14, 2005)

We both agree that Magic has decided ups and downs as far as infastructure is concerned, but for a resort that has come back from the dead, they are doing the best that they can with I guess very limited funds. This season has proven very difficult to maintain any sort of enjoyable skiing surface, and after being frustrated at paying $67 to ski on DOC at Okemo, Magic was much more fun. I am a bit spoiled in that each of my visits to Magic have been after a large dump of snow, so I suppose that helps sway my opinion of the place.

I too have had good experiences with staff at the larger resorts, Sugarloaf has an excellent ski school and kids program, which is why we drive 450+ miles to ski there every year. We have also had bad experiences at the larger resorts. When my son took both of his lessions at Hunter in December, he came away shy of ski school and male instructors. On his last visit the instructor pushed him down and "yelled" at him to get up without any assistance, my wife nearly beat the living #$%^ out of the instructor. At Magic we tried to get him a female instructor, but there were none available. They brought out a really nice fellow who tried to talk our son into taking a lession with him, which we found to be quite a nice effort on his part.

If Magic does complete the new begginer lift this year, that will be a big determinant factor in our skiing plans there next year, because the main mtn is just to long for my son at this point. I am having a hard time deciding where to ski with him close to home this weekend, as I really want to try to keep him away from really crowded places until he is a beter skier, and conditions will probably be quite icy.


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## JimG. (Jan 14, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> When my son took both of his lessions at Hunter in December, he came away shy of ski school and male instructors. On his last visit the instructor pushed him down and "yelled" at him to get up without any assistance, my wife nearly beat the living #$%^ out of the instructor.



She should have. As much as I love Hunter, this is an area they really need to improve. Stories like these are one of the main reasons I stopped teaching there. It's hard as a certified instructor to see what has happened to the staff there in the past 8-9 years.

BTW, my middle son Peter had a similar experience with a female instructor there. I gave up coaching kids 2 years ago to spend time coaching my 2 oldest sons because I didn't trust the level of teaching they would get otherwise.

I'd be interested to hear more details if you care to expand on this...send me a PM. BTW, are your initials K.S.?


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## loafer89 (Jan 14, 2005)

I was very suprised at the way that the lession quality at Hunter has degraded especially with the new learning center that they just built. My best friend/skiing buddy wants to go to Hunter this Sunday along with my family, but I know that my son will refuse to take a lession there. We are thinking of going to Belleayre instead. I really like Hunter, but this may keep me away for a while until my son can ski the main mtn with us.

Not to sound like an idiot, but how do I send you a PM, do I just click on the PM link? and yes my initials are K.S, do you know this from my posts on FTO???


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## JimG. (Jan 14, 2005)

loafer89 said:
			
		

> Not to sound like an idiot, but how do I send you a PM, do I just click on the PM link? and yes my initials are K.S, do you know this from my posts on FTO???



Click on the "JimG." to get to my profile, then click 
"PM" and type away. And yes, I know you from FTO.


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## beswift (Jan 14, 2005)

*loafer89 *
This wasn't the first time Magic started up again after shutting down for more than a summer.  They always seem to open up when the economy improves.  I am glad you are finding things more acceptable there than elsewhere as they need the return customers.  As to ski schools, I never took a lesson and know that it would have helped when I was learning how to ski pre-school.  My parents never gave us much help as they didn't know much about skiing themselves.  I hope your child appreciates it


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## loafer89 (Jan 14, 2005)

I will be sking quite alot with my son at the smaller resorts/areas because there are less crowds and the prices are more reasonable. I started my sking in 1983 with lessons from the start and I skied alot with my brother who was already a good skier. My parents put me in summer ski camp in Europe when I was 14, and by the time I was 16 I had skied every month of the year.

Even with alot of ski experience, I consider my skiing skills to be average and I enjoy the sport more for the snow/mountains contact than anthying else, so I am happy with any skiing just about anywhere.


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## beswift (Jan 15, 2005)

It's all about having a good time, isn't it?  Although I prefer wine, women and song, skiing has often done in a pinch.


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