# SKI Magazine 2014 Best Ski areas in the East



## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2013)

1st time I can recall in probably close to 20 years that Tremblant was not ranked #1.

http://www.skinet.com/ski/galleries/2014-best-ski-resorts-east


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## 4aprice (Sep 12, 2013)

Que the discontent in 3, 2, 1...

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ


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## WWF-VT (Sep 12, 2013)

Here's the list:

1. Smuggler’s Notch
2. Sugarloaf
3. Jay Peak
4. Tremblant
5. Holiday Valley
6. Stowe
7. Sugarbush
8. Killington
9. Bretton Woods
10. Whiteface
11. Sunday River
12. Loon Mountain
13. Okemo
14. Saddleback
15. Stratton
16. Mount Snow
17. Cannon Mountain
18. Waterville Valley
19. Gore Mountain
20. Wildcat Mountain


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2013)

That is a serious shakeup in the top 5 (actually 10).


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## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2013)

Best SKI RESORTS not SKI AREAS


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## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2013)

#5 hahaha


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2013)

Rank
2013
2014
Change
1.
Tremblant
Smuggler’s Notch
 ^ 2 
2.
Sunday River
Sugarloaf
^ 2
3.
Smuggler’s Notch
Jay Peak
^ 7
4.
Sugarloaf
Tremblant
v 3
5.
Stowe
Holiday Valley
^ 1
6.
Holiday Valley
Stowe
v 1
7.
Killington
Sugarbush
^ 4
8.
Whiteface
Killington
v 1
9.
Loon Mountain
Bretton Woods
^ 4
10.
Jay Peak
Whiteface
v 2
11.
Sugarbush
Sunday River
v 9
12.
Waterville Valley
Loon Mountain
v 3
13.
Bretton Woods
Okemo
^ 2
14.
Stratton
Saddleback
unranked
15.
Okemo
Stratton
v 1
16.
Mount Snow
Mount Snow
unch
17.
Cannon
Cannon Mountain
unch
18.
Snowshoe
Waterville Valley
v 6
19.
Wildcat
Gore Mountain
unranked
20.
Attitash
Wildcat Mountain
v 1


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## gmcunni (Sep 12, 2013)

Skied ?

1. Smuggler’s Notch - YES
2. Sugarloaf - YES
3. Jay Peak - NO
4. Tremblant - NO
5. Holiday Valley - NO
6. Stowe - YES
7. Sugarbush - YES
8. Killington - YES 
9. Bretton Woods - NO
10. Whiteface - NO
11. Sunday River - NO
12. Loon Mountain - NO
13. Okemo - YES
14. Saddleback - NO
15. Stratton - YES 
16. Mount Snow - YES
17. Cannon Mountain - NO
18. Waterville Valley - NO
19. Gore Mountain - NO
20. Wildcat Mountain - NO


skied 8 of 20 , i have some work to do


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## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> Skied ?
> 
> 1. Smuggler’s Notch - YES
> 2. Sugarloaf - YES
> ...



I have skied all but 2


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2013)

Cripes, now Jay is going to even MORE crowded :flame:


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 12, 2013)

Well I guess this list is better than in years past....


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## ScottySkis (Sep 12, 2013)

How about an Alpine Zone best ski and snowboarding areas in the east vote.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 12, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> I have skied all but 2



Only two I haven't been to is HV & Loon.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 12, 2013)

How does a ski area that hasn't installed a new lift since the mid 60's get to be ranked #1?


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## x10003q (Sep 12, 2013)

This is the first time Gore has ever made any top 20 list.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 12, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> How does a ski area that hasn't installed a new lift since the mid 60's get to be ranked #1?



Terrain variety and affordability go a long way. Children's program is light years ahead of other resorts


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## xwhaler (Sep 12, 2013)

Where I've been

1. Smuggler’s Notch - YES
2. Sugarloaf - YES
3. Jay Peak - YES
4. Tremblant - NO
5. Holiday Valley - NO
6. Stowe - NO
7. Sugarbush - YES
8. Killington - YES
9. Bretton Woods - YES
10. Whiteface - NO
11. Sunday River - YES
12. Loon Mountain - YES
13. Okemo - YES
14. Saddleback - YES
15. Stratton - NO
16. Mount Snow - YES
17. Cannon Mountain - YES
18. Waterville Valley - YES
19. Gore Mountain - NO
20. Wildcat Mountain - YES


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## deadheadskier (Sep 12, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Well I guess this list is better than in years past....



I think it's much better than most years.  There are quite a few areas on the list that are super popular and didn't make the top 10 such as Sunday River, Loon, Okemo, Stratton and Mount Snow which definitely are all lacking in either advanced terrain or natural snowfall.


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## Cornhead (Sep 12, 2013)

I've actually been to Holiday Valley. The best things about it are, lake effect snow, and a real town to party in, Ellicottville. As far as the hill goes, meh, 750 ft of vertical, pretty scenic for what it is. Top 5? Put down the crack pipe.:wink:


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## snowmonster (Sep 12, 2013)

I always scratch my head when I see Holiday Valley on this list.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2013)

Where do they get these quotes?  Re: Waterville


> “Most underrated resort in the East. The Valley is scenic, *the mountain challenging*, the staff helpful and knowledgeable and the history deep. Has hosted the World Cup finals twice, tons of WC races, *birthplace of freestyle skiing*.”


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## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Where do they get these quotes?  Re: Waterville



*birthplace of freestyle skiing* is on the sign when you drive up there.


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## St. Bear (Sep 12, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> *birthplace of freestyle skiing* is on the sign when you drive up there.



Really?  What does that refer to?


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## fbrissette (Sep 12, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> I always scratch my head when I see Holiday Valley on this list.



This is absolutely mind-boggling to me too.


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## x10003q (Sep 12, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> This is absolutely mind-boggling to me too.



How can you not understand? Let's see - banana belt terrain vs anything else on the list. Its a no brainer. Who doesn't love 500ft vertical runs all day? Those runs at Whiteface and Stowe (and everywhere else) are too long and tiring. 

The surprising thing about this years top 20 is HV's Pennsylvanian cousin Seven Springs failed to make the list.8)


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 12, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> I always scratch my head when I see Holiday Valley on this list.


It is the best area within a 160 mile radius of: Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburg, and Erie. Lots of voting potential there. Syracuse is also in that 160 mile bubble but it is borderline with distance to the ADKs and CTSKLS resorts.


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## fbrissette (Sep 12, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> It is the best area within a 160 mile radius of: Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburg, and Erie. Lots of voting potential there. Syracuse is also in that 160 mile bubble but it is borderline with distance to the ADKs and CTSKLS resorts.



I understand that, but you nevertheless have be intellectually dishonest to put Holiday Valley in the top 5 of that list.


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## x10003q (Sep 12, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I understand that, but you nevertheless have be intellectually dishonest to put Holiday Valley in the top 5 of that list.


Exactly. 
The terrain is not worthy of the list despite the votes.


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## bdfreetuna (Sep 12, 2013)

This list reminds me a lot of Guitar Magazine's "Top 100 Guitar Solos" and lists like "Top 5 Ways To Please Your Man in Bed"

Probably all written by the same asshat


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## Edd (Sep 12, 2013)

Seems more truthful to calling the list "Most Popular" instead of "Best".

I've been to all but 5 of these places.  That alone disqualifies me from voting if we're talking about what the best is, and even then it's ridiculously subjective.


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## Smellytele (Sep 12, 2013)

St. Bear said:


> Really?  What does that refer to?



Waterville Valley is the Birthplace of Freestyle Skiing. Waterville  Valley was the first ski area to offer freestyle instruction, with the  freestyle program formed in 1969. In 1970, Tom Corcoran and Doug  Pfeiffer, editor of Skiing Magazine, organized the First National Open  Championships of Freestyle Skiing at Waterville Valley.


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## skiNEwhere (Sep 12, 2013)

Funny how the article is supposed to be their latest ranking to date, but the picture of Mt.Snow clearly is from a couple of years ago (old Yan chairs on GSE)


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## ss20 (Sep 12, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> Funny how the article is supposed to be their latest ranking to date, but the picture of Mt.Snow clearly is from a couple of years ago (old Yan chairs on GSE)



Yeah, I was thinking that too.  You'd also think they'd show the bubble lift instead.  Guess Mt. Snow didn't bribe Ski enough :lol:


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Terrain variety and affordability go a long way. Children's program is light years ahead of other resorts



Pleeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzze!


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 13, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Pleeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzze!



There is more to skiing then HSQ and crowded trails friendo


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## St. Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

Smellytele said:


> Waterville Valley is the Birthplace of Freestyle Skiing. Waterville Valley was the first ski area to offer freestyle instruction, with the freestyle program formed in 1969. In 1970, Tom Corcoran and Doug Pfeiffer, editor of Skiing Magazine, organized the First National Open Championships of Freestyle Skiing at Waterville Valley.



Learn something new everyday.  I went on their website yesterday, but couldn't find anything.  Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but you thinkt hey'd be marketing the hell out of that history.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> There is more to skiing then HSQ and crowded trails friendo



I agree. But to give a ski area with an antiquated lift system, poor snow making & grooming  a #1 ranking doesn't make sense either.

Even MRG replaced the single chair & Sunnyside double with new lifts.


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## Quietman (Sep 13, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I agree. But to give a ski area with an antiquated lift system, poor snow making & grooming  a #1 ranking doesn't make sense either.
> 
> Even MRG replaced the single chair & Sunnyside double with new lifts.



I skied Smuggs once and while the terain is very nice, waiting 20+ minutes in line for each ride back up sucked.  If they didn't bring in the crowds, then 3 antique doubles on the main mountain would be fine, but that is not the case.  
Heck, I don't mind riding the antique double at Mt Abram because you rarely have a long lift line.  
High speed quad giving access to 2k vert in 6 minutes at Wildcat is the best.


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## dlague (Sep 13, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> Cripes, now Jay is going to even MORE crowded :flame:



Yup!  Liked Jay when it was a best kept secret and the chgnages had not started - still ski it though!

As far as the list is concerned - do not agree with it!  Sunday River #11, Killington #8 and Sugarbush #7?


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 13, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I agree. But to give a ski area with an antiquated lift system, poor snow making & grooming  a #1 ranking doesn't make sense either.
> 
> Even MRG replaced the single chair & Sunnyside double with new lifts.



Well they replaced them with the same thing but that's besides the point.  I hear the argument but it would be impossible to keep the weekend/holiday lift ticket at $66 if they added more expansive snowmaking and faster lifts. They keep snowmaking cost down by limiting uphill access which also helps to preserve the great natural terrain off Madonna. If they had a HSQ, all of those trails would rarely be open. Also, because it's a double the lift can be much lower and run in much windier conditions than say the Four Runner at Stowe. I think the biggest driver for Smuggs is differentiating themselves from their friends on the other side of the notch. If they jacked up their prices and added a HSQ, what makes them different from Stowe? This has been argued before but I would have no problem with Smuggs turning either/both Madonna or Sterling into a triple. I would even be okay with maybe turning Sterling into a HSQ. But I hope they never make Madonna into a HSQ


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## Quietman (Sep 13, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Also, because it's a double the lift can be much lower and run in much windier conditions than say the Four Runner at Stowe.



I agree, and I really loved riding the lift with all of its terrain hugging ups and downs.  I don't know of any other old Hall double that covers 2k of vertical.  I just hate waiting in long lines, not my cup of tea.


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## drjeff (Sep 13, 2013)

skiNEwhere said:


> Funny how the article is supposed to be their latest ranking to date, but the picture of Mt.Snow clearly is from a couple of years ago (old Yan chairs on GSE)





ss20 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that too.  You'd also think they'd show the bubble lift instead.  Guess Mt. Snow didn't bribe Ski enough :lol:



More likely the folks at Ski who compiled the article have never been to Mount Snow and didn't do much more than just grab one of the stock press photos off of the Mount Snow website (they have about 100 of various vintages and photo topics/subjects from snowmaking to lifts to ski school to golf course to apres ski) and never consulted anyone from Mount Snow.

That picture was actually taken in the '10-'11 season by then marketing department head (now GM at Mad River Mountain in Ohio, Greg Fisher) who went through about a week long phase where a bunch of the pics he shot were "snow level" of fresh corduroy.

A pic of the Bluebird would of been way more appropriate IMHO,  but then again the majority of the folks at Ski aren't exactly who I would call credible ski related writers as much as they're "lifestyle" writers


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## steamboat1 (Sep 13, 2013)

Pico has two HSQ's, 1967' vertical.

Don't see that mountain getting scraped off.

Probably came in 49th place.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 14, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Pico has two HSQ's, 1967' vertical.
> 
> Don't see that mountain getting scraped off.
> 
> Probably came in 49th place.



let's keep it that way.  That's what makes Pico; Pico, and why it's so great.

SAY NO TO THE INTERCONNECT!!


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 14, 2013)

Comparing the terrain at Pico and Smuggs is silly. Almost all of Pico's terrain is groomable so if things get scraped off no big deal. Most of the expert terrain off of Madonna is ungroomable.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 14, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Comparing the terrain at Pico and Smuggs is silly. Almost all of Pico's terrain is groomable so if things get scraped off no big deal. Most of the expert terrain off of Madonna is ungroomable.



Boy I don't know about that.  I never saw them groom Upper Giant Killer or Sidewinder and some of the trails in the Outpost area. They do groom Upper KA, Sunset '71, and some of the Summit Glades.  

I agree with you on Smuggs though...some of their terrain is pretty gnarly.  

So as for the poll, very interesting.  Saddleback beats Stratton, Sugarbush beats Killington, Sugarloaf is #2, Jay at #3.  As to Smuggs: they have old infrastructure but damn good customer service and programs.  I think we see what folks really preferred here.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 14, 2013)

And with the change of regime at SKI/SKIING, I hope that the content does improve.....


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## steamboat1 (Sep 14, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Comparing the terrain at Pico and Smuggs is silly. Almost all of Pico's terrain is groomable so if things get scraped off no big deal. Most of the expert terrain off of Madonna is ungroomable.



Wasn't comparing terrain, comparing uphill capacity. Pico does very little grooming on the upper mountain. Yes they groom 49'er & the lower part of upper Pike regularly but the rest see's very little grooming if any. The terrain seems to hold up even with the extra uphill capacity.

Their lift ticket prices are the same or lower than Smuggs.


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## snowmonster (Sep 14, 2013)

from_the_NEK said:


> It is the best area within a 160 mile radius of: Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburg, and Erie. Lots of voting potential there. Syracuse is also in that 160 mile bubble but it is borderline with distance to the ADKs and CTSKLS resorts.



I understand your point but, by this logic, I should not be surprised if Buck Hill, MN ends up in the Top 10 of the western resorts ranking. I think I only saw MRG on this list once.


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## MadPadraic (Sep 15, 2013)

Based on my only trip there, I'd put Smuggs somewhere in 10-20, but not top 10.  Long lift lines, inability to cope with a thaw/freeze or dry spell, poor accessibility (i.e. drive time from Boston or other cities), and mediocre dinner choices all count against it for me.

I'd expect Wildcat to be higher, and wonder how Bretton Woods is ranked higher than Stratton, Okemo, and Loon (within their collective table).


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## thetrailboss (Sep 15, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> I always scratch my head when I see Holiday Valley on this list.



Pure popularity contest.  This poll, IIRC, is based on reader feedback and polling.  Holiday Valley has a lot of skiers and riders and I think that they, like other resorts, really *encourage* their loyal guests to rank them in this poll.  So I think that the ranking reflects that and the fact that they draw from a large (flat) region with not much competition.  I'd be more surprised if it did not make it.  It's been in the ranking every since I can remember.  

As to other flukes, I think that it reflects that more ballots came in for one as opposed to the other.  E.g. Stratton vs. Bretton Woods.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 16, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Boy I don't know about that. I never saw them groom Upper Giant Killer or Sidewinder and some of the trails in the Outpost area. They do groom Upper KA, Sunset '71, and some of the Summit Glades.
> 
> I agree with you on Smuggs though...some of their terrain is pretty gnarly.
> 
> So as for the poll, very interesting. Saddleback beats Stratton, Sugarbush beats Killington, Sugarloaf is #2, Jay at #3. As to Smuggs: they have old infrastructure but damn good customer service and programs. I think we see what folks really preferred here.



I think UGK makes my point. The trail is rarely open and when it is open it tends to get skied off very quickly. Pico also has a limited operation which also helps with preserving snow pack.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 16, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> I think UGK makes my point. The trail is rarely open and when it is open it tends to get skied off very quickly. Pico also has a limited operation which also helps with preserving snow pack.



There actually is snowmaking on UGK but I think that ASC did not maintain it at all and the pipes are in pretty bad shape.  That is different from a lot of the expert terrain at Smuggs which has no snowmaking.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 16, 2013)

I think Morse makes my point. Why don't they at least have a HSQ on Morse?

Answer: there is zero investment in on mountain infrastructure.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 16, 2013)

I don't think Morse would warrant that. They have plenty of lifts to service that area it seems. I would rather put a quad on Sterling. But there is definitely some truth to your statement. Increasing uphill capacity even on Sterling would ease a lot of the congestion even on Madonna.


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## snowmonster (Sep 20, 2013)

Having skied a lot of Quebec last season, I think Le Massif de Charlevoix, Mont Saint Anne, Orford and Sutton deserve some consideration. I know that SKI's readership is mostly from south of the 45th parallel but that doesn't seem to stop Tremblant from ranking. In particular, given the kind of skiing, food and service at Le Massif, it could only be a matter of time.


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## fbrissette (Sep 20, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Having skied a lot of Quebec last season, I think Le Massif de Charlevoix, Mont Saint Anne, Orford and Sutton deserve some consideration. I know that SKI's readership is mostly from south of the 45th parallel but that doesn't seem to stop Tremblant from ranking. In particular, given the kind of skiing, food and service at Le Massif, it could only be a matter of time.



I would pick 'Le Massif' over Tremblant any day, not even close.   If you like shopping, I suggest Tremblant.


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## thetrailboss (Sep 20, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I think Morse makes my point. Why don't they at least have a HSQ on Morse?
> 
> Answer: there is zero investment in on mountain infrastructure.



I think the issue is cost...not just of installation, but operation.  A HSQ costs significantly more than a fixed grip to operate and maintain. Smuggs has been able to get around it through their customer service and programs.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 20, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> I think the issue is cost...not just of installation, but operation.  A HSQ costs significantly more than a fixed grip to operate and maintain. Smuggs has been able to get around it through their customer service and programs.



Unless you are a kid there is nothing special about customer service at Smuggs. If watching a clown do tricks in the cafeteria at lunch time is your thing then you might not agree.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree with the posts about eastern Canada. Lots of great skiing up there. Quebec City has lots of shopping. There's even a huge mall up there with an indoor ice skating rink & amusement park. That should keep the shoppers happy to.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 20, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Unless you are a kid there is nothing special about customer service at Smuggs. If watching a clown do tricks in the cafeteria at lunch time is your thing then you might not agree.




Allowing people to use BOGO lift ticket coupons on weekends is pretty damn customer friendly. I don't know of any mountain that offers anything like that. I will say that Jay was pretty awesome about giving me a season pass holder discount on a weekend lift ticket when I was only a midweek season pass ticket holder at MRG. I also remember Smuggs being extremely flexible with "professional courtesy" lift tickets when I was a ski instructor at a different mountain. Those are just my experiences though.


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 20, 2013)

fbrissette said:


> I would pick 'Le Massif' over Tremblant any day, not even close.   If you like shopping, I suggest Tremblant.



Agreed but I do prefer Tremblant backcountry over Le Massif.


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## dlague (Sep 20, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Allowing people to use BOGO lift ticket coupons on weekends is pretty damn customer friendly. I don't know of any mountain that offers anything like that. I will say that Jay was pretty awesome about giving me a season pass holder discount on a weekend lift ticket when I was only a midweek season pass ticket holder at MRG. I also remember Smuggs being extremely flexible with "professional courtesy" lift tickets when I was a ski instructor at a different mountain. Those are just my experiences though.



There certainly are other places that allow BOGO on weekends.  If there is no verbiage that states that weekends are not included then there is no issue.  We ski every Saturday on a BOGO or better.  We will be skiing at Jay Peak and Pico on Sundays using BOGOs or better.

BTW - I think that Smuggs at the top of the list is specifically for those families that have young children - many activities around the ski area are to keep kids busy while the parents ski.  The restaurants that we went to were not kid friendly.  My experiences there have been mediocre at best.  The long lift lines for double chairs is hard to swallow!  They do have great terrain, but my family wants no part of it!  Maybe midweek is a better time to try it again!


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## Conrad (Sep 20, 2013)

I wonder what Sunday River did to drop down 9 places, haha


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## Moe Ghoul (Sep 20, 2013)

Smuggs added snowmaking equipment that was running last season that really helped out.  I guess these polls are easily skewed based on the questions and the number of voters and I don't think anyone takes them too seriously. If it gets a few new folks to come and check out the hill it's good for biz. Kmart or Stowe not getting the #1 spot won't hurt their bottom line. A place like Smuggs getting top honors might help boost sales for the coming season. Since it is my home mountain as of last season, I'm a little biased.


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## steamboat1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Don't get me wrong. I like Smuggs for the same reasons I like Mad River. I'm an old school type of guy. My beef & negativity in this thread is because no way, no how does Smuggs deserve a #1 ranking.


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## deadheadskier (Sep 20, 2013)

Moe Ghoul said:


> Smuggs added snowmaking equipment that was running last season that really helped out.  I guess these polls are easily skewed based on the questions and the number of voters and I don't think anyone takes them too seriously. If it gets a few new folks to come and check out the hill it's good for biz. Kmart or Stowe not getting the #1 spot won't hurt their bottom line. A place like Smuggs getting top honors might help boost sales for the coming season. Since it is my home mountain as of last season, I'm a little biased.



You move from Philly?

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thetrailboss (Sep 20, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Don't get me wrong. I like Smuggs for the same reasons I like Mad River. I'm an old school type of guy. My beef & negativity in this thread is because no way, no how does Smuggs deserve a #1 ranking.



I think that the rankings indicate that like other areas more folks went to Smuggs, liked it, and voted for it in this poll.  I was a bit surprised to see them as No. 1 overall....like DHS said, I assumed that it would be Tremblant again.  But I guess I'd rather see things shaken up than just have it be the same old same old.


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## snowmonster (Sep 21, 2013)

MadMadWorld said:


> Agreed but I do prefer Tremblant backcountry over Le Massif.



That's interesting. I would think that Le Massif would win the backcountry war. Their Secteur Hors Piste reminds me of a wilder Brackett Basin.  That, their on-map glades and the triple diamond La Charlevoix runs could feed my wild side. On the softer side of things, they've got the food, the train (and its gourmet meals) and La Ferme, their hotel in Baie St. Paul, to keep SKI readers who love their amenities happy.


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## Moe Ghoul (Sep 21, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> You move from Philly?
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app



No, we bought a house about 5 minutes from Smuggs last June, still have the house in Philly and divide time between the 2. It's about a 40 minute ride to Jay, so I managed to get up there a few times as well. The past year has been spent taking trailer loads of stuff up there, doing some small improvements to the house and a boatload of yardwork. We just got back from VT on Thursday, got the wood delivered and stacked, ran the heating system, yada, yada, so we are ready for winter. Headin back up around the end of October.


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## bigbog (Sep 23, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I wonder what Sunday River did to drop down 9 places, haha



Maybe...
Less $$$ contribution to wherever the poll was done from, fewer visits from polling personnel, their inability to maintain 80mph to/from the mountain, and fewer restaurants in the area...along with less shopping.  Will be a sad day when they decide to join the southern NewEngland ratrace....but it's 
probably coming..


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## MadMadWorld (Sep 23, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> That's interesting. I would think that Le Massif would win the backcountry war. Their Secteur Hors Piste reminds me of a wilder Brackett Basin. That, their on-map glades and the triple diamond La Charlevoix runs could feed my wild side. On the softer side of things, they've got the food, the train (and its gourmet meals) and La Ferme, their hotel in Baie St. Paul, to keep SKI readers who love their amenities happy.



Well I only had 1 day on each mountain but there is a ton of gullies along the ridgeline between north-south at Tremblant. It can get pretty hairy in there. Reminds me of Stowe a little bit. I think comparing the Ligori area of Massif to Brackett Basin is a good one. Both mountains have a lot to offer and I enjoyed them both a great deal. I have to say though $399 for a seasons pass to Tremblant with only vacation/holidays blacked out is a steal.


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## MadPadraic (Sep 25, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I wonder what Sunday River did to drop down 9 places, haha



Sunday River was just too high last year. It's hard to see how it beat Stowe, Sugarloaf, and err.. Holiday Valley.


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## Edd (Sep 25, 2013)

bigbog said:


> Will be a sad day when they decide to join the southern NewEngland ratrace....but it's
> probably coming..



How would that look?  Not sure what you mean. They already have a solid chunk of Boston skiers crowding the place on weekends.


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## bigbog (Sep 25, 2013)

Wish they would stop turning every meadow into a bump arcade...   Just personal feeling.....maybe not a factual "every", but pretty close. 
 You get 14" overnight and a meadow, where one could let a powski run...now bumped up, turns into mini-park.  That's why I end up staying at SL.  Some would-be friends just say...get over it Steve...lol, suppose they're right.  Guess I'm living in the wrong mtn range..;-)


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## Riverskier (Sep 25, 2013)

MadPadraic said:


> Sunday River was just too high last year. It's hard to see how it beat Stowe, Sugarloaf, and err.. Holiday Valley.



Why Sugarloaf? Sunday River has better snowmaking (arguably the best in the East), better grooming, a better lift system, better intermediate terrain, etc. These are all things that are important to the masses. Does Sugarloaf have better terrain and get more natural snow? Definitely. And to most people on here that would catapult them past Sunday River, but that isn't necessarily the case with the average recreational skier.

That is the problem with these lists (aside from the fact that they are based on polling and not an analysis of actual criterias)- every skier would weight things differently based on their preferences. Though useless based on how they obtain these results, it may be more productive to discuss the results of individual categories. They are at least slightly more representative of reality as most people see it.


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## WWF-VT (Sep 25, 2013)

Information from the printed magazine

Nearly 10,000 readers completed this year's survey with 40,000 resort evaluations
Most important qualites: Snow, Variety of Terrain, and Challenge 
80% or responders rank themselves as advanced or expert skiers with one third skiing at least thirty days a season
60% own a season pass

In the east Sugarloaf was ranked #1 for Variety, #2 for Challenge, #4 for Service , #4 for Digital Presence and #3 for Overall Satisfaction.  That's what lead to their overall #2 in the East

The head scratcher is that Mad River Glen ranks #4 for Variety, #1 for Challenge, #2 for Value, #1 for Character and #2 for Overall Satisfaction but doesn't crack the Top 20


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## gostan (Sep 26, 2013)

WWF-VT said:


> Information from the printed magazine
> 
> 
> The head scratcher is that Mad River Glen ranks #4 for Variety, #1 for Challenge, #2 for Value, #1 for Character and #2 for Overall Satisfaction but doesn't crack the Top 20


 I love MR, but maybe the answer is that it probably ranks somewhere around #49 in days open.:razz:


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## Cannonball (Sep 26, 2013)

WWF-VT said:


> Information from the printed magazine
> 
> Nearly 10,000 readers completed this year's survey with 40,000 resort evaluations
> Most important qualites: Snow, Variety of Terrain, and Challenge
> 80% or responders rank themselves as advanced or expert skiers



If 80% of respondents consider themselves experts, you already have to question the validity of their responses.


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## from_the_NEK (Sep 26, 2013)




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## dlague (Sep 26, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> If 80% of respondents consider themselves experts, you already have to question the validity of their responses.



Good point!


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## slipshod (Sep 26, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> I agree with the posts about eastern Canada. Lots of great skiing up there. Quebec City has lots of shopping. There's even a huge mall up there with an indoor ice skating rink & amusement park. That should keep the shoppers happy to.


Not just shopping. The place is one of the most beautiful, historic and downright interesting cities on the continent.


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## Smellytele (Sep 26, 2013)

slipshod said:


> Not just shopping. The place is one of the most beautiful, historic and downright interesting cities on the continent.



And one of the coldest places in the winter as well


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## dlague (Sep 26, 2013)

slipshod said:


> Not just shopping. The place is one of the most beautiful, historic and downright interesting cities on the continent.



+1 and.... in the winter they have the Ice Hotel!


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## steamboat1 (Sep 26, 2013)

The Bassillica of Sainte-Anne-de Beaupre is one of the most beautiful buildings I've ever been inside. 

Never been to the Ice Hotel but the ice sculpturing during winter carnival in QC is amazing.

Yes it can be cold but often they get dumped on with snow while New England gets rain.


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## MadPadraic (Sep 26, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> Why Sugarloaf? Sunday River has better snowmaking (arguably the best in the East), better grooming, a better lift system, better intermediate terrain, etc. These are all things that are important to the masses. Does Sugarloaf have better terrain and get more natural snow? Definitely. And to most people on here that would catapult them past Sunday River, but that isn't necessarily the case with the average recreational skier.



Sugarloaf, Jay, Stowe, Killington, and Sugarbush were all ranked above Bretton Woods, Okemo, Stratton, Loon and Mt Snow. 

At least based on AZ resort reputations, the "average recreational skier" didn't seem to have much of a vote.


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## AredMosinel (Oct 5, 2013)

Jay has good snow, but I would not rank it that high


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 5, 2013)

MadPadraic said:


> I'd expect Wildcat to be higher, and wonder how Bretton Woods is ranked higher than Stratton, Okemo, and Loon (within their collective table).



Seems fair to me. Having been to all these places, I would prefer a return trip to Bretton Woods. They are all easy terrain, but at least BW has a view of the Amanoosuc Ravine and as far as courdoroy cruisers go I think they take the cake in the NE.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## bdfreetuna (Oct 5, 2013)

AredMosinel said:


> Jay has good snow, but I would not rank it that high



I would. If it wasn't so damn far away I would ski there more than any other mountain.

That said I've never been to sugar loaf.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thetrailboss (Oct 5, 2013)

bdfreetuna said:


> I would. If it wasn't so damn far away I would ski there more than any other mountain.
> 
> That said I've never been to sugar loaf.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using AlpineZone mobile app



Sugarloaf, IMHO, has much better terrain variety than Jay and a lot better trail skiing.  Jay has a lot of cross the fall line trails and steep trails, but nothing really in between.  Sugarloaf has excellent, consistent pitch.  If Sugarloaf could get Jay's snow, then that would be killer.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 5, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Sugarloaf, IMHO, has much better terrain variety than Jay and a lot better trail skiing.  Jay has a lot of cross the fall line trails and steep trails, but nothing really in between.  Sugarloaf has excellent, consistent pitch.  If Sugarloaf could get Jay's snow, then that would be killer.



Sugarloaf does pretty good in the snow department. The top of that mountain isn't treeless because of it's elevation. I wonder why that is?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 6, 2013)

Pretty certain the main reason for the Snowfields is there was a fire at some point in the last 100 years or so.  Sugarloaf has got to be one of if not the windiest ski area summits in the East.  Very difficult for trees to regrow in that environment.


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## snowmonster (Oct 6, 2013)

^ You're correct: a fire on the summit is responsible for denuding Sugarloaf's peak. 

I also share the opinion that, if Sugarloaf got Jay's snowfall, that would be an awesome mountain. IMHO, the closest combo of Jay-like snowfall and Sugarloaf trail variety is...Stowe. Think about it.


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## Edd (Oct 6, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> ^
> I also share the opinion that, if Sugarloaf got Jay's snowfall, that would be an awesome mountain. IMHO, the closest combo of Jay-like snowfall and Sugarloaf trail variety is...Stowe. Think about it.



Yeah, pretty much this.


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