# Wildcat on the block: Wildcat Sold to Peaks Resorts



## dl (Oct 7, 2010)

I don't have anything to substantiate this but has anyone heard anything? Just received an email from a friend who said that Peak Resorts is looking at buying Wildcat. I had heard they looked at it last year but didn't see a lot of value as there is no real estate play (i.e. condos, hotels, future development) to be made. Was surprised to get the email today and am wondering if it's old news that's made its way around or something new is happening.


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## billski (Oct 7, 2010)

Note to management, past present and future: don't mess with Wildcat, Catapult, Lynx or Alleycat trails!  :evil:


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2010)

Wildcat has been on the market for quite some time.  The family that owns it is getting tired.  One hell of a location, but it hurts them because there is no potential for real estate development at all. Add aging infrastructure to the list and a bad market and you've got an explanation as to why it is a hard sell.


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## Highway Star (Oct 7, 2010)

billski said:


> Note to management, past present and future: don't mess with Wildcat, Catapult, Lynx or Alleycat trails! :evil:


 
Huh.....I heard that they were going to widen all the trails and install several hundred fan guns.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2010)

Great place.  Too bad they can't put in even a modest hotel at the base to have some lodging component and an additional revenue stream. 

In addition to no developable real estate, I don't believe they have the ability to expand any terrain either.  

Maybe the State of NH will buy it and add it to it's park system.  A Cannon/Wildcat pass combo would be sweet!!!!


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## drjeff (Oct 7, 2010)

Wilcat's biggest problem, always has been and likely will be,  will be that it "suffers" from having 1st class terrain at a resort that is considered by many of the masses(you know all those folks that show up and REALLY make $$ for the ski area) to be at best a 2nd, if not 3rd class resort when compared to the other offering within an hours drive of Wildcat.  And that's too bad, since there's some phenomenal terrain there, a lift that argueably is one of the best in all of New England interms of access lots of verts/terrain in 1 quick ride, and on a sunny day, the views from the mountain are top 5 in the country


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## Angus (Oct 7, 2010)

a couple of years ago, a formal prospectus was available - to qualified prospects - which somehow I saw - don't remember how! As I recall, the price was not astronomical and probably reflected the realities of this mountain. Given the economic climate, I'm sure the price has dropped. Maybe with the new hotel opening at Great Glen they can expect more visitors. You're right Bill - please don't change. This is our "go to" spring skiing destination. Peaks could do something with Attitash and Wildcat that could be pretty cool for the Attitash folks - might drive more people to the mountain which wouldn't be so cool for me though!


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## deadheadskier (Oct 7, 2010)

What really surprises me about the N. Conway area is that the resorts don't team up and offer a 4 Mountain Pass.  It's a pain to drive to N. Conway, though it will improve some with the Route 16 expansion through Rochester. None of the areas up there are spectacular enough individually to be a major draw for season pass buyers or frequent day trips.  However, the 4 areas combined offer pretty much everything a skier/rider could want.  I think combining that type of pass with the area's summer appeal would be a real draw for potential vacation home buyers from Boston.


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## St. Bear (Oct 7, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Maybe the State of NH will buy it and add it to it's park system.  A Cannon/Wildcat pass combo would be sweet!!!!



What's that I hear?  It's a choir of angels.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 7, 2010)

St. Bear said:


> What's that I hear? It's a choir of angels.


 
No, it's threecy's head about to explode at the thought of another ski area going into the state's hands. :wink: :lol:


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## polariso (Oct 7, 2010)

*Thankful*

Im thankful Wildcat will never become a real estate development. Could use some upgrades but as long as the quads running ill make the trip.


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## Edd (Oct 7, 2010)

dl said:


> I don't have anything to substantiate this but has anyone heard anything? Just received an email from a friend who said that Peak Resorts is looking at buying Wildcat.



I've heard a similar rumor but also have nothing to back it up.


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## Geoff (Oct 7, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Maybe the State of NH will buy it and add it to it's park system.  A Cannon/Wildcat pass combo would be sweet!!!!




Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.


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## billski (Oct 7, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Wilcat's biggest problem, always has been and likely will be,  will be that it "suffers" from having 1st class terrain at a resort that is considered by many of the masses(you know all those folks that show up and REALLY make $$ for the ski area) to be at best a 2nd, if not 3rd class resort when compared to the other offering within an hours drive of Wildcat.  And that's too bad, since there's some phenomenal terrain there, a lift that argueably is one of the best in all of New England interms of access lots of verts/terrain in 1 quick ride, and on a sunny day, the views from the mountain are top 5 in the country



As Cannon mountain likes to say, "we're a SKI AREA not a RESORT.  (much to the disappointment of the Wildcat owners....)


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## Edd (Oct 7, 2010)

I've always fantasized about a Wildcat/Cannon pass and have mentioned that on this forum.  That's the only pass drivable to me that could get me to jump from the New England pass.


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## EPB (Oct 7, 2010)

Purchasing Wildcat seems somewhat concurrent with Peak's day business oriented business model.  It looks like Mount Snow is the only resort that they currently own that they plan (or are able) to build out.  From what I understand, Attitash sold off their develop-able land in the 1980's; I also haven't heard of any Crotched development plans.  The rest of their business looks like day trip hills near bigger urban centers in the Midwest.  

Owning Wildcat and Attitash could open up a great deal of skiing related opportunities for people looking to make a weekend trip or vacation in the Mount Washington Valley.  Harsh weather conditions wouldn't be as big of a deterrent to making a commitment to Wildcat if you could ski Attitash on the same ticket.  Aggregate season pass holders would likely increase too.  Peak's infatuation with snow making could lead to great early and late skiing opportunities at Wildcat.  The list goes on.  

Having an owner with deep pockets and a focus on the skiing product could lead to some interesting opportunities at the Cat.  As a few have already mentioned, I hope it wouldn't come at the expense of Wildcat's classic terrain.  One positive indication is that their permitting effort might be better served trying to expand their boundaries, upgrade the lift/snowmaking system, or build new buildings on the property.


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## riverc0il (Oct 7, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Great place.  Too bad they can't put in even a modest hotel at the base to have some lodging component and an additional revenue stream.


Sorry, only one monopoly is allowed to operate bed base in the WMNF....

 :-? :evil:

Not sure I agree with you EPB on Peaks and Wildcat being a good fit. All of Peaks other eastern areas have real estate attached (including Crotched, limited as it is though Crotched is a unique Beast in and of itself focused more on Peaks' mid-west warehouse style, night/park skiing, and feeder area skiing). As far as the mountains themselves, Crotched, Attitash, and Snow all work well with the "buy a ton of pole cats, line em' up, and BLOW BABY BLOW!" philosophy. Wildcat's trails really don't support that method. Cat does have four season. 

I think the closeness aspect of the Cat and Attitash would cause too much internal competition. It would not be a synergy but rather a reduction of efforts competing against each other. Snow, Crotched, and Attitash all power their own markets and none of them compete with the higher. Crotched can promote Attitash as the big mountain to graduate to and Attitash can promote Crotched as the local place to night ski during the week. That works. Wildcat vs Attitash just does not work with the same ownership, IMO.


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## EPB (Oct 8, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Not sure I agree with you EPB on Peaks and Wildcat being a good fit. All of Peaks other eastern areas have real estate attached (including Crotched, limited as it is though Crotched is a unique Beast in and of itself focused more on Peaks' mid-west warehouse style, night/park skiing, and feeder area skiing). As far as the mountains themselves, Crotched, Attitash, and Snow all work well with the "buy a ton of pole cats, line em' up, and BLOW BABY BLOW!" philosophy. Wildcat's trails really don't support that method. Cat does have four season.
> 
> I think the closeness aspect of the Cat and Attitash would cause too much internal competition. It would not be a synergy but rather a reduction of efforts competing against each other. Snow, Crotched, and Attitash all power their own markets and none of them compete with the higher. Crotched can promote Attitash as the big mountain to graduate to and Attitash can promote Crotched as the local place to night ski during the week. That works. Wildcat vs Attitash just does not work with the same ownership, IMO.



The Sunday River-Sugarloaf dynamic certainly hasn't been kind to the Loaf over the years.  So in that regard, proximity might be a problem after all.  

As far as real estate goes, I was under the impression that Crotched had real estate, but I was unclear if the mountain actually profits form it.  I know Attitash sold off much of its trail side real estate in bulk to fund the Summit Triple back in the 1980s (the "mountainside" land between Attitash and Bear Peak).  The recent Bearfoot Creek real estate development wasn't Attitash's gig.  The developer is from Massachusetts and has a 978 area code phone number on his sign on the side of one of the Bearfoot Creek trails.  Aside from perhaps a real estate development in the 1970s on the skiers right of Attitash, the mountain has only sold condos/time shares at the Grand Summit during the Les Otten reign.  A good portion of the develop-able land around the Attitash and Bear Peak ski boundary isn't owned by the resort.  It had been rumored that the owner of a large portion of land beyond Bear Peak would buy the resort from ASC and develop real estate.  Obviously, that has yet to happen.  To my (insider direct) knowledge, there are no plans for Peak to develop real estate Attitash in the near future.  They did have plans to build a golf course on the Fields of Attitash, but those plans have been shelved for now.  

... I was just salivating at the thought of skiing the summit area of  Wildcat in early to mid May.  The corn skiing there is great.  I do have to agree that most of the trail network doesn't seem particularly well suited for a Peak-esque snow making expansion. 

PS I grew up skiing at Attitash, that's why I happen to know.  Id also love the idea of a joint Attitash/Wildcat pass.


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## Edd (Oct 8, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> PS I grew up skiing at Attitash, that's why I happen to know.  Id also love the idea of a joint Attitash/Wildcat pass.



It's sort of a nice idea.  I have a feeling that's not how this is gonna turn out....hope I'm wrong.


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## riverc0il (Oct 8, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> The Sunday River-Sugarloaf dynamic certainly hasn't been kind to the Loaf over the years.  So in that regard, proximity might be a problem after all.


Not really a fair comparison there. The River and Loaf was a package deal to Boyne, if I remember correctly. But regardless, these two areas are not exactly close to each other like Attitash and Wildcat are. Additionally, both are premier top tier destination resorts. No offense to those of you that enjoy Attitash, but its not in the same league as Wildcat (for terrain and skiing experience) nor Sunday River or Sugarloaf (for everything). Loaf and River work well together, River early season, Loaf late. The two mountains have two completely different ownership pools. I just don't see Loaf and River working against each other, I think they both have something special going for them and work well in conjunction. Just my opinion, but I just don't see that for an Attitash/Wildcat card.


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## EPB (Oct 8, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I just don't see Loaf and River working against each other, I think they both have something special going for them and work well in conjunction. Just my opinion, but I just don't see that for an Attitash/Wildcat card.



To the consumer, I'd definitely agree.  The problem with the two being under common ownership is that Sunday River is a cash cow and Sugarloaf is not.  From what I can gather, ASC and Boyne have been worried that capital improvements at Sugarloaf might increase skier visits by detracting from Sunday River's customer base.  Before Saddleback emerged as somewhat of a player in Western Maine, this was certainly true.  For instance, if Sugarloaf had received some much needed lift upgrades, Sunday River goers might be more inclined to drive the extra hour to Sugarloaf.  Certainly, some Boston-area  skiers would ski Sugarloaf over Vermont if they made the right improvements, but Sugarloaf has been at a disadvantage because SR dominates the Western Maine market.  When I think about it from management's perspective, I can't justify them spending more than 10-15% of their marketing efforts on Sugarloaf assuming resources are scarce. 

Boyne has gotten creative with the Brackett Basin expansion trying to tap into a market that Sunday River hasn't already covered.  Lift upgrades and things of that nature aren't likely to receive as good an ROI because they'd detract from SR's business.  The same could hold true between Wildcat and Attitash.  There's no doubt that Wildcat is the better ski area, but the way things currently stand, people are making the choice (in masses) to ski Attitash or Cranmore when they're literally right down the street.  If Peak were to run ROI projections at Wildcat, they would likely find that, like Sunday River, making improvements to the "skiers'" resort would likely detract from their (currently) stronger business.  

.... I don't really think it's gonna happen, but its an interesting discussion if nothing else.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 8, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> To the consumer, I'd definitely agree. The problem with the two being under common ownership is that Sunday River is a cash cow and Sugarloaf is not. From what I can gather, ASC and Boyne have been worried that capital improvements at Sugarloaf might increase skier visits by detracting from Sunday River's customer base. Before Saddleback emerged as somewhat of a player in Western Maine, this was certainly true. For instance, if Sugarloaf had received some much needed lift upgrades, Sunday River goers might be more inclined to drive the extra hour to Sugarloaf. Certainly, some Boston-area skiers would ski Sugarloaf over Vermont if they made the right improvements, but Sugarloaf has been at a disadvantage because SR dominates the Western Maine market. When I think about it from management's perspective, I can't justify them spending more than 10-15% of their marketing efforts on Sugarloaf assuming resources are scarce.
> 
> Boyne has gotten creative with the Brackett Basin expansion trying to tap into a market that Sunday River hasn't already covered. Lift upgrades and things of that nature aren't likely to receive as good an ROI because they'd detract from SR's business. The same could hold true between Wildcat and Attitash. There's no doubt that Wildcat is the better ski area, but the way things currently stand, people are making the choice (in masses) to ski Attitash or Cranmore when they're literally right down the street. If Peak were to run ROI projections at Wildcat, they would likely find that, like Sunday River, making improvements to the "skiers'" resort would likely detract from their (currently) stronger business.
> 
> .... I don't really think it's gonna happen, but its an interesting discussion if nothing else.


 
I agree and I disagree. I think that Boyne has a good spread of the market and is marketing Sugarloaf as the go-to place for folks that want more of a big mountain experience rather than skiing cruisers. I also think that Sugarloaf had been pretty neglected and Boyne has done a lot with it in the last few years cleaning things up and really improving its brand. I have only heard PR about Sugarloaf this year...lots of good vibes. Sunday River did get the Chondola, but I think that Sugarloaf is being pushed as the product to go to for more hardcore skiers and riders.

My wife grew up at Sugarloaf and her family is 90 minutes away, so I have more of a reason to go, but to be honest, I would not hesitate to drive up there again for a visit or two this season based on my experience there this year.  I made two trips there and the place is really buzzing.  Even though I had to hike for turns on my last visit, I got to appreciate the mountain on a different level and could see just how immense it really is.  I got a really good sense as to the amount of work that had been done on snowmaking infrastructure and other capital investments.  That is a lot of ground to cover up there.


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## EPB (Oct 8, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> I agree and I disagree. I think that Boyne has a good spread of the market and is marketing Sugarloaf as the go-to place for folks that want more of a big mountain experience rather than skiing cruisers. I also think that Sugarloaf had been pretty neglected and Boyne has done a lot with it in the last few years cleaning things up and really improving its brand. I have only heard PR about Sugarloaf this year...lots of good vibes. Sunday River did get the Chondola, but I think that Sugarloaf is being pushed as the product to go to for more hardcore skiers and riders.
> 
> My wife grew up at Sugarloaf and her family is 90 minutes away, so I have more of a reason to go, but to be honest, I would not hesitate to drive up there again for a visit or two this season based on my experience there this year.  I made two trips there and the place is really buzzing.  Even though I had to hike for turns on my last visit, I got to appreciate the mountain on a different level and could see just how immense it really is.  I got a really good sense as to the amount of work that had been done on snowmaking infrastructure and other capital investments.  That is a lot of ground to cover up there.



I definitely agree.  The snow making improvements have been much needed.  They're really highlighting what's special about the place too, which is truly refreshing.  Sugarloaf has its own marketing identity to match its different skiing "vibe".  I think its a great idea.  Hopefully they continue push its strengths going forward.... I really think Saddleback gave Boyne the kick in the butt it needed to really start putting time and effort into revitalizing the loaf.  I might have that wrong though.  

Selling Sugarloaf to the hardcore skier is a great idea for solving the ROI problem too.  If they spend money to attract as non-SR skier base, the moves are likely to generate a better return.  As things stand now Boyne>>>>ASC for Sugarloaf.

The real question for me is, whether this is an experiment to see what they can get out of Sugarloaf, or if it is a sign of things to come.  I hope it is the latter, but time will surely tell.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 8, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> I really think Saddleback gave Boyne the kick in the butt it needed to really start putting time and effort into revitalizing the loaf. I might have that wrong though.


 
This.  

Saddleback is now a big player and is going for the same market now as Sugarloaf.  Add to the fact that Saddleback is now managed by former Sugarloaf people.  

And I see what you are saying about Sugarloaf "robbing" Sunday River of skiers and riders.  This was what would happen if they pushed Sugarloaf as another typical resort with groomers.  This was in essence what ASC was doing.  But it seems that Boyne is rounding out their portfolio by saying that Loon is their "groomer" mountain, Sunday River is the in-between product, and Sugarloaf is their version of Jay Peak with natural snow runs, glades, etc.


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## Skimaine (Oct 8, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Saddleback is now a big player and is going for the same market now as Sugarloaf.  Add to the fact that Saddleback is now managed by former Sugarloaf people.
> .



Not so much any more.  Cook is gone along with a number of lieutenants.  Leaner look to the management team at SB.  Competition has been good for both.


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## dl (Oct 8, 2010)

I don't know the Peak guys well but what little I've heard is that they (in the past) have tended towards resort development vs. real estate development. In other words, they would look at Attitash and figure out how to turn this into a full, four season resort. The mountain coaster that's being built would back that up as it would supplement the summer offerings they currently have but it will also be a draw for the non-ski crowd during the winter. I know some owners at the Grand Summit and they said that in the early days of Peak ownership, Peak was looking to sell the hotel as that was not their business. Ultimately they decided to hold on to it but I think that shows how they were thinking in the past and might in the future. It's a different model from what we always think of but it's a model that appears to be working for them. 

Now think of Wildcat in those terms. Forget the real estate development and figure out how Peak might turn this resort into a bigger draw than it currently is. That's how they might be thinking (if they really are looking at buying it). Getting a corner on the MWV market might be a way for them to increase their overall skier/resort visits. A kind of 1+1=3.

Of course they could close it.....and drive more traffic to Attitash but we don't want to think about that.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 8, 2010)

Skimaine said:


> Not so much any more. Cook is gone along with a number of lieutenants. Leaner look to the management team at SB. Competition has been good for both.


 
Thanks for the correction.  Where has Cook gone to?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 8, 2010)

dl said:


> Forget the real estate development and figure out how Peak might turn this resort into a bigger draw than it currently is. That's how they might be thinking (if they really are looking at buying it). Getting a corner on the MWV market might be a way for them to increase their overall skier/resort visits. A kind of 1+1=3.



cross marketing with another mountain could help.........if they maintain the affordability of the place.  I think Wildcat's value is a big draw in addition to the skiing.  The cheap Sunday afternoons, second day add ons, mid week deals.  They also usually have the deepest discounts on liftopia.

As for the mountain itself, I really don't see how it could be improved if they aren't allowed to expand terrain.  The lifts are perfectly fine.  I did read somewhere that if they wanted to they could put in another summit lift.  I think it would be great if they put in a fixed grip chair up Lift Lion.  You could use it for both windy days when the Quad gets shut down and for early / late season turns.


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## xwhaler (Oct 8, 2010)

```
http://www.sunjournal.com/franklin/story/861266
```

Cook is also involved in Maine Network Partners, an organization that supports the development of collaborative nonprofit networks in Maine.


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## threecy (Oct 8, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I did read somewhere that if they wanted to they could put in another summit lift.  I think it would be great if they put in a fixed grip chair up Lift Lion.  You could use it for both windy days when the Quad gets shut down and for early / late season turns.



They've actually been decreasing the lift count over the years.  There used to be two lifts that reached the summit (a triple and a gondola).  In addition, there was a double between the gondola and the CTEC triple.  The triple and gondola were removed on either side of the HSQ installation, whilst the double was taken removed shortly thereafter.


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## EPB (Oct 8, 2010)

threecy said:


> They've actually been decreasing the lift count over the years.  There used to be two lifts that reached the summit (a triple and a gondola).  In addition, there was a double between the gondola and the CTEC triple.  The triple and gondola were removed on either side of the HSQ installation, whilst the double was taken removed shortly thereafter.



Are you familiar with the high speed quad mid station at Tremblant? It's for summer use only.  It was also installed about 10 years after the quad was originally built.  I was wondering if Wildcat could do something similar with their quad.  A mid loading point where the old triple used to begin (2/3 of the way up) could offer awesome spring skiing and would only require opening one lift.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 8, 2010)

threecy said:


> They've actually been decreasing the lift count over the years.  There used to be two lifts that reached the summit (a triple and a gondola).  In addition, there was a double between the gondola and the CTEC triple.  The triple and gondola were removed on either side of the HSQ installation, whilst the double was taken removed shortly thereafter.



I am aware.  I'm fairly certain they can put in a upper mountain lift without going through too many major USFS permitting stages as their originally was an Upper Mountain lift.



eastern powder baby said:


> Are you familiar with the high speed quad mid station at Tremblant? It's for summer use only.  It was also installed about 10 years after the quad was originally built.  I was wondering if Wildcat could do something similar with their quad.  A mid loading point where the old triple used to begin (2/3 of the way up) could offer awesome spring skiing and would only require opening one lift.



This would be a great alternative too.  My suggestion of a fixed grip is simply to also have a bit more insurance of summit access on windy days.  It would fantastic for spring skiing.  It's interesting, for all 'resorts' that shut it down long before they run out of snow, a mom and pop ski area like Wildcat with far fewer peak season revenue streams manages almost always to be one of the last mountains to close each year.


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## threecy (Oct 8, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I am aware.  I'm fairly certain they can put in a upper mountain lift without going through too many major USFS permitting stages as their originally was an Upper Mountain lift.



Not sure it'd be that easy...they'd probably need a FGQ to justify putting in a lift for days the HSQ cannot run...capacity of FGQ+HSQ > FGT+old gondola.  I'm not familiar with Wildcat's permit, but Smuggs, for instance, traded the rights to two double chairs in exchange for one detachable (yet to be installed).

Also, if it's too windy for the HSQ in winter, the upper mountain area can be pretty brutal.  It's probably not a bad idea to keep folks off the top 500 or so vertical feet in those extreme situations.


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## Breeze (Oct 8, 2010)

Word has spread  in the MWV/Pinkham Notch  that  it is a done deal with Peak, and  it's been shared  with the current  employee base at  Wildcat.    The  'Cat is outta the bag. 


 Beyond  that there is a lot of  rumor, gossip and speculation,  so I won't  play  Post  Office except to say  most   locals think it will be a win-win situation, even if   it takes some time  to come to  full fruition.

With all due respect to the  family  ownership and long term  management  of  Wildcat:  while  the  property   investment may not have been obvious, or even deemed  lacking.....   care was  taken to file,  apply, and maintain USFS  permitting  for  most of what  the market base  calls for.  Give some props to that aspect,  it was  done  even though there was no intent to build  it to  outer  limits.  


I think this  could be  just as exciting as the  resurgence of  of Saddleback. It seems like a response  to the current  real estate  market  correction.

 Attitash and  Wildcat do share a BIG  MWV market base of   part time  locals,  second  home owners,  condo  owners, and time share owners, all of whom are  trying to squeeze  out some  room-rental income while getting the best  deals on snow.  This is the tertiary  ( can't  flip-it, locked in)  market, and   now becomes  an important working  relationship  in the community  for maintaining guest  traffic, skiership, ridership and  most of all......... GUEST SATISFACTION and REPEAT BUSINESS. 

 Yea Wildcat  needs some love and attention, but it is still and will always be a  kick ass on-hill experience.

I'm thinking    good thoughts.  

Breeze


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## deadheadskier (Oct 8, 2010)

threecy said:


> Not sure it'd be that easy...they'd probably need a FGQ to justify putting in a lift for days the HSQ cannot run...capacity of FGQ+HSQ > FGT+old gondola.  I'm not familiar with Wildcat's permit, but Smuggs, for instance, traded the rights to two double chairs in exchange for one detachable (yet to be installed).



I forget where I read it, probably here, but it was with a mountain employee and it was pretty specific that they could put an upper mountain lift if they wanted to due to the previous lift being there.  A fixed grip quad is probably best for being able to deal with wind higher than the 50 mph the current HSQ tolerates.  That or a lift quite low to the ground.  My primary interest (read: dream) is the late season potential.  That mountain holds snow very well.   You could blow deep on Upper Catapult and stay open to Memorial Day quite easy.  Given the traffic across the street for Tucks, there are a fair amount of skiers in the arear through May.  

Spare me the reality check / that's not how ski areas operate.  

Read: dream 



Breeze said:


> Yea Wildcat  needs some love and attention, but it is still and will always be a  kick ass on-hill experience.
> 
> I'm thinking    good thoughts.
> 
> Breeze



What do you think it needs?  More snowmaking capacity I get, but that could be said for pretty much anywhere.  The Bobcat triple is pretty pokey.  Short of terrain expansion that they can't do, I think Wildcat is perhaps the one area in New England that I really think is pretty much fine the way it is.  Kick ass lift, kick ass trails, lodge is plenty adequate.  I guess renovating and reopening the old summit gondi building would be pretty cool. 

If what you say about Peaks taking over is true, their pass will get serious consideration from me next season.  I've contemplated a Wildcat Pass for the past couple of seasons.  Having Attitash as a back up when conditions at the Cat are brutal might sway me.


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## riverc0il (Oct 8, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> What do you think it needs?  More snowmaking capacity I get, but that could be said for pretty much anywhere.  The Bobcat triple is pretty pokey.  Short of terrain expansion that they can't do, I think Wildcat is perhaps the one area in New England that I really think is pretty much fine the way it is.


Hey now, don't forget about MRG. 

Seriously though, My biggest grip with Wildcat are the lack of options off the summit which leads to deteriorating conditions off the summit. Teh suck about skiing at Wildcat in hard pack conditions is all the summit trails are pretty icy well before noon. Wildcat has a decent amount of terrain, but if the liftlines are not open, then all skiers are funneled down either Wildcat, Catapult, or Lynx (or Polecat if you want). That is not enough trails for a high speed lift that often runs as the only lift any one uses.

I doubt there is anything that could be done about this given their existing foot print. They already have TB to the north which is fine the way it is and I don't know if any terrain is expandable to the south even with permits. 

Ideally, they would replace the Tomcat Triple with another high speeder to better service the bottom 2/3 of the mountain and relocate the Tom Cat Triple to the old Gondi line to service upper mountain terrain for earlier opening and later closing. Ain't gonna happen, but I can dream. My favorite on map terrain at Wildcat, liftlines aside, is all the terrain north of the Quad serviced by the Tomcat.

If Peaks is the buyer, the only change I would really hope for his more honest and straight forward trail reporting. They mark trails as open even if only 10% of the trail is open as a connector. One thing I hope Peaks would not do is bury the place in man made and groom it flat. Cat does a good job of leaving a lot of natural. Which does not seem to be Peaks forte.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 8, 2010)

There's real estate to put in trails between Lynx / Polecat, Upper Wildcat / Catapult, Feeline / Tomcat Schuss; that could take some of the pressure off the main trails and preserve conditions later into the day.  There's also some tree skiing stashes in those areas that would be compromised by such development.

Wildcat's greatest asset is the Summit Quad.  You can rack up Vert at that mountain as good as anywhere.  It also creates the conditions problems you note.  Just get yourself the 5 Stars you seek and enjoy it for what it is.


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## riverc0il (Oct 8, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Wildcat's greatest asset is the Summit Quad.  You can rack up Vert at that mountain as good as anywhere.  It also creates the conditions problems you note.  Just get yourself the 5 Stars you seek and enjoy it for what it is.


6s actually and those are more for early season. I don't know if I will be able to stomach packing them up to rip cruisers at the Cat in mid-winter. :???: I don't enjoy things for what they are but rather I enjoy things when they are enjoyable to me personally. 

I agree that the Cat's greatest asset (not counting the view, man made only here) is the HSQ. No where else can you rack up that much vert that quickly. But the conditions degradation is the price that was paid for that asset. I used to love the Cat when I was a groomer charging racer. Now I rarely get over there. What most people love the mountain for (the HSQ), I hate it for because of what that type of traffic does to the trails. Pods rule for that reason.


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## Edd (Oct 8, 2010)

Breeze said:


> Word has spread  in the MWV/Pinkham Notch  that  it is a done deal with Peak, and  it's been shared  with the current  employee base at  Wildcat.    The  'Cat is outta the bag.
> 
> 
> Beyond  that there is a lot of  rumor, gossip and speculation,  so I won't  play  Post  Office except to say  most   locals think it will be a win-win situation, even if   it takes some time  to come to  full fruition.
> ...



I hope the locals are right.  The idea of Wildcat getting a cash injection is huge news.  Higher ticket prices are probably unavoidable.  I hope Peak grabs their reputation as a late season ski area with both hands and makes the most of it.  I also like Wildcat the way it is but I'm hoping for the best.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 8, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> 6s actually and those are more for early season. I don't know if I will be able to stomach packing them up to rip cruisers at the Cat in mid-winter. :???: I don't enjoy things for what they are but rather I enjoy things when they are enjoyable to me personally.
> 
> I agree that the Cat's greatest asset (not counting the view, man made only here) is the HSQ. No where else can you rack up that much vert that quickly. But the conditions degradation is the price that was paid for that asset. I used to love the Cat when I was a groomer charging racer. Now I rarely get over there. What most people love the mountain for (the HSQ), I hate it for because of what that type of traffic does to the trails. Pods rule for that reason.



That lift's capacity even beats up the tree stashes, because they tend to be just a few lines wide tree stashes.  Par for the course in soft wood forests.  I almost think it would be better to just to put the tree stashes on the map and expand them condiderably.  Overall it would decrease skier density on the terrain.  Doubt the USFS would go for it.


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## Breeze (Oct 9, 2010)

I think the first  and biggest   improvement needed at   Wildcat is outright replacement of   loads of late 1960's  era  underground  rusted  steel pipe in the  snowmaking system.  

I say that   not because I think Wildcat  needs to  blow more snow  "just"  to pile it higher and  deeper   to groom, but  because the location and  wind scour   requires some consistent  promise of reasonable recovery from adverse weather  events.   When  a third or   half  of  effective snowmaking system  is blown out  because the on-mountain   infrastructure is rusted to rupture, there is  a  BIG  problem. 

Latest   I've  heard on that is a @ 3 million dollar price tag. 

 Breeze


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## threecy (Oct 9, 2010)

Breeze said:


> I think the first  and biggest   improvement needed at   Wildcat is outright replacement of   loads of late 1960's  era  underground  rusted  steel pipe in the  snowmaking system.



+1

Based upon what I've seen and heard whilst walking those trails during snowmaking, there are a lot of leaks in the air and water lines.  With pinhole or greater leaks all over, the loss of water/air/pressure eventually adds up.


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## Angus (Oct 11, 2010)

I was thinking a Mt. Snow, Crotched, Attitash & Wildcat combined pass would be pretty nice for someone living in the boston area. I skied at Mt. Snow a few years ago and was surprised by how quickly I could get there. I also thought the terrain was fine - crowds weren't bad but it was late season. & I will make the day-trip drive in the spring to ski at Wildcat with more light on the road, etc. I'll go to crotched for 1/2 days just to get some runs in with my family.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 11, 2010)

In theory, if Peaks does take over, I'd imagine they'd probably only look to replace the damaged water pipes and install Fan Guns. 

Not sure that would bring the $3M price tag down or not.  What do their fan guns cost?  20K a piece?


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## Smellytele (Oct 11, 2010)

At this moment they do have a "Nor'Easter" pass which includes Attitrash, Mount No and The Crotch for $1049 or the "Granite" pass for Attitrash and The Crotch for $699. those are the early season prices that look like are good until today. I would assume they might think about adding it to those  - not sure what they would charge.


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## threecy (Oct 11, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> In theory, if Peaks does take over, I'd imagine they'd probably only look to replace the damaged water pipes and install Fan Guns.



I don't know if they have an REIT involved (I suspect they do, since pretty much everything else Peak Resorts has is owned or financed by them), but repairing/replacing snowmaking pipe will probably be a smaller expense as compared to running electric around the trails and purchasing a bunch of Polecat (perhaps that name will have new meaning at Wildcat) snowguns.


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## Angus (Oct 11, 2010)

isn't water a big deal (or lack of it for snow making) a big deal at Wildcat?


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## eatskisleep (Oct 11, 2010)

I think we are lucky peaks can't develop and put real estate on the mountain. I like Wildcat the way it is. Unfortunately, student season pass prices have risen considerebly in years, but hopefully they will come down next season so I can afford a pass again.

I also pray to God that they don't start grooming all of our favorite trails at Wildcat. People keep on coming back to Wildcat for a reason... decent (not the best, I'll take MRG for that) bumps, and good woods.


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## dropKickMurphy (Oct 12, 2010)

threecy said:


> Not sure it'd be that easy...they'd probably need a FGQ to justify putting in a lift for days the HSQ cannot run...capacity of FGQ+HSQ > FGT+old gondola.  I'm not familiar with Wildcat's permit, but Smuggs, for instance, traded the rights to two double chairs in exchange for one detachable (yet to be installed).
> 
> Also, if it's too windy for the HSQ in winter, the upper mountain area can be pretty brutal.  It's probably not a bad idea to keep folks off the top 500 or so vertical feet in those extreme situations.



That's what I was thinking. If it's too windy to run the quad, anything above the top of the Tomcat lift is likely to bewind-blasted ice anyway.

From my own selfish standpoint, I have a hard time imagining what kinds of infrastructure changes would actually "improve" the skiing. More/better lifts? Hell, You can already get more vert in a given period of time at Wildcat than pretty much any other ski area in the country. Just over 6 minutes to ascend 2000+ feet. And on Sundays and weekdays there is seldom any line at all to get on the HSQ. So what exactly would more lifts do for us?

Increased snowmaking? That would probably come with widening trails and more grooming.

I'd like to see more terrain added, but the NFS lease kind of restricts that possibility. 

On site hotels/condos? Personally, I love the views just the way they are.

I really wouldn't mind a new base lodge, maybe something along the lines of what Saddleback built. But the existing one is fine by me. A little worn and dog-eared. But then again, so am I. It's got a good bar, places to sit and grab a bite to eat, bathrooms. What else do I really need?

If "improvements" bring crowds and higher prices, I'm all for keeping Wildcat just the way it is.


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## Mapnut (Oct 12, 2010)

I'd say the best thing about this change, assuming they don't mess up the mountain, is that there will be owners with sound enough financing to keep the area going and make any investments that are truly necessary.  I don't know anything about the present owners, but if they have been trying to sell the place for years, they probably don't have any money to invest.


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 12, 2010)

If it is Peaks, that really does offer up some intriguing possibilities in combination with Attitash.  Two completely different ski areas serving completely different needs.  Just fixing the current snowmaking system to improve efficiency would enable them to blow the same amount of snow for less money, or conversely more snow for the same money.  Combined with the marketing opportunities with Attitash (combo pass, sampler for 3-4 days, discounts for passholders) and I could see a more profitable future for Wildcat even w/o splashy infrastructure investments.


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## EPB (Oct 12, 2010)

Tin Woodsman said:


> Combined with the marketing opportunities with Attitash (combo pass, sampler for 3-4 days, discounts for passholders) and I could see a more profitable future for Wildcat even w/o splashy infrastructure investments.



This is exactly what I was thinking.  Maybe some new snow making pipes, other basic upgrades and they're golden.  Having Attitash down the street enables them to offer huge terrain variety for a weekend/vacation on the same lift ticket.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 12, 2010)

Just don't take away the $25 Sunday afternoon deal :uzi:


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## sull1102 (Oct 12, 2010)

Peak = Baby ASC?


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## eatskisleep (Oct 12, 2010)

One good thing would be to blow plenty of snow top to bottom on lift and gondi line so they can keep it top to bottom bumps in the springtime.

Otherwise, change nothing.

Keep the park rats over at Attitash please...


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## EPB (Oct 12, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> One good thing would be to blow plenty of snow top to bottom on lift and gondi line so they can keep it top to bottom bumps in the springtime.
> 
> Otherwise, change nothing.
> 
> Keep the park rats over at Attitash please...



Completely agree.  Any snow making efforts at Wildcat should be made to keep trails sufficiently covered for as long as possible.  There's no point in schlepping up to Pinkham Notch for a terrain park anyway.


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## St. Bear (Oct 12, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> One good thing would be to blow plenty of snow top to bottom on lift and gondi line so they can keep it top to bottom bumps in the springtime.
> 
> Otherwise, change nothing.
> 
> Keep the park rats over at Attitash please...



Just blow enough snow so I don't have to ski around dirt patches during a snow drought in Jan.


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## Smellytele (Oct 12, 2010)

The dirt is part of the fun


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 12, 2010)

sull1102 said:


> Peak = Baby ASC?



Only superficially in that they own multiple resorts in the NE.  The reality is that ASC was incredibly poorly run form a strategic and financial perspective.  They ran up massive debts building their empire in New England and when they IPOd, instead of using those funds to pay down the debt, they doubled down by blowing it all on Steamboat and Heavenly.  The cherry on top was massive expenditure in poorly built, poorly located, and poorly conceived Grand Summits not to mention dumping a truck load into the comically designed Canyons.  Under the crushing debt burden, they had to cut back on everything they could find, degrading the skiing product and customer service.  When the hoped for real-estate profits didn't come in due to lousy execution, the house of cards fell apart.  

Peaks appears to be taking a much more measured and cautious approach, with a strong focus on improving the skiing experience via snowmaking upgrades and well thought out customer service enhancements.  Eventually, it seems that they will layer some real-estate on top of that, but the priority seems to be polishing what they have in place.



eatskisleep said:


> One good thing would be to blow plenty of snow top to bottom on lift and gondi line so they can keep it top to bottom bumps in the springtime.
> 
> Otherwise, change nothing.
> 
> Keep the park rats over at Attitash please...



This is actually interesting, in that it reveals a real opportunity for Peaks.  In light of the large snowmaking firepower in place at Attitash, it's distinct two-mountain layout, and the large contingent of vacationing families in the North Conway area, I could see Peaks pulling a "Carinthia" with all or most of Bear Peak and turning it into a massive terrain park.  That would keep the boarders and other assorted park rats happy while leaving the majority of Attitash, including its best cruising terrain for the skiers, with Wildcat being the additional relief valve for a more challenging and organic skiing/riding experience.  In sum, you'd have a huge amount of terrain for all needs with a nice mix of powder skiing and possibly late season skiing at the Cat complemented by reliable conditions throughout the season at Attitash.  



eastern powder baby said:


> Completely agree.  Any snow making efforts at Wildcat should be made to keep trails sufficiently covered for as long as possible.  There's no point in schlepping up to Pinkham Notch for a terrain park anyway.



Yup.  Just polish what you have an ensure a May closing each year by blowing a little deeper on one way down from the top.


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## Geoff (Oct 14, 2010)

Tin Woodsman said:


> I could see Peaks pulling a "Carinthia" with all or most of Bear Peak and turning it into a massive terrain park.  That would keep the boarders and other assorted park rats happy while leaving the majority of Attitash, including its best cruising terrain for the skiers, with Wildcat being the additional relief valve for a more challenging and organic skiing/riding experience.  In sum, you'd have a huge amount of terrain for all needs with a nice mix of powder skiing and possibly late season skiing at the Cat complemented by reliable conditions throughout the season at Attitash.



I think Bear Peak is probably a little too steep for the North Conway park rats.   Carinthia is flatter'n a pancake.   I  think you'd have a better play pen over on the old side of the resort where it is flatter.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 14, 2010)

Tin Woodsman said:


> In light of the large snowmaking firepower in place at Attitash, it's distinct two-mountain layout, and the large contingent of vacationing families in the North Conway area, I could see Peaks pulling a "Carinthia" with all or most of Bear Peak and turning it into a massive terrain park. That would keep the boarders and other assorted park rats happy while leaving the majority of Attitash, including its best cruising terrain for the skiers, with Wildcat being the additional relief valve for a more challenging and organic skiing/riding experience.


 
It's been a while since I skied Attitash, but IIRC the Bear Peak side had more of the Sunday River-esque cruiser terrain and the Attitash side had steeper, old school trails.  I would not call much of Attitash or Bear Peak "flat" either.  The only area that is pretty "flat" is the beginner area on looker's right of the Attitash side.


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## threecy (Oct 14, 2010)

sull1102 said:


> Peak = Baby ASC?



One thing to note is that Peak technically doesn't own a lot of the ski area assets, whereas American Skiing Company did.


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 14, 2010)

Geoff said:


> I think Bear Peak is probably a little too steep for the North Conway park rats.   Carinthia is flatter'n a pancake.   I  think you'd have a better play pen over on the old side of the resort where it is flatter.



I should have added that caveat that the terrain may be too steep for that, but that would be the ideal solution if you could make it work.


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## Geoff (Oct 14, 2010)

Tin Woodsman said:


> I should have added that caveat that the terrain may be too steep for that, but that would be the ideal solution if you could make it work.



Bear Peak has the feel of chunks of low-expert Sunday River or maybe Wildfire at Killington/Bear Mountain.  I've only ever skied there midweek in bumped up spring conditions as a stop-over on my way to Maine back in the ASC days.   It might ski easier when groomed to death midwinter.


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## EPB (Oct 14, 2010)

Geoff said:


> Bear Peak has the feel of chunks of low-expert Sunday River or maybe Wildfire at Killington/Bear Mountain.  I've only ever skied there midweek in bumped up spring conditions as a stop-over on my way to Maine back in the ASC days.   It might ski easier when groomed to death midwinter.



The summit of Bear Peak effectively has four full top to bottom runs.  One double black diamond that follows the lift named Avenger.  It seems like a half hearted attempt to create a new installment of White Heat or Outer Limits on Bear Peak though it isn't quite as steep or quite as long as WH or OL.  Illusion is a groomed black diamond cruiser that is FIS certified for SL, GS and Super G.  It's also probably too steep for a terrain park (at least the top third or half).  Wandering skis is a blue square run ~1.75 miles long over 1450 vert.  It would be a pretty good candidate for a terrain park if it weren't the only intermediate access point to the Grand Summit Hotel.  The fourth run is called Morning Star which is highly trafficked as it is the only way to get back to Attitash from the summit.  The terrain park was located int he beginner pod (Kachina Triple area) in the late 90's, but it has since been moved over to Attitash.  There is a mini terrain park in an old handle tow area at Bear Peak, but that's it.  

Rumor had it that Spillway (running parallel to the current terrain park on Thad's Choice) would feature a terrain park when Peak took over.  That has yet to happen.  Spillway is the race trail that I grew up racing and training on; the Attitash Race Team has managed to secure the rights to it early mornings through last season. Potentially that would change.  I've thought for a while that Attitash would be best served putting a park on Spillway and replacing its twin borvig doubles with a high speed quad to move at about 800 fpm like the South Ridge Express at Sunday River.  Easy loading, quick lap times and high capacity would make that area a premiere learning area and terrain park setup in the Valley and perhaps the east if implemented correctly.


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## Smellytele (Oct 18, 2010)

HMMMM??? Wildcat deals are no longer available on Liftopia!!!!


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## billski (Oct 18, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> HMMMM??? Wildcat deals are no longer available on Liftopia!!!!


I wouldn't read into it.  The deals came and went the last two years.  Most of my Wildcat purchases were on deals posted only a few days prior.


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## frozencorn (Oct 21, 2010)

Done deal. As a Wildcat lover, not sure how I feel about this. 
Peak Resorts Acquires New Hampshire Ski Area Wildcat Mountain
Two Of Mount Washington Valley’s Largest Ski Resorts Will Offer Combination Ticket & Season Pass Products

Wildwood, MO – Peak Resorts announced today that it has entered in to a purchase agreement with Pat Franchi to acquire all Wildcat Mountain Ski Area assets and attractions in Pinkham Notch, New Hampshire. Parties involved expect to finalize the purchase pending approval by the U.S. Forest Service. Adding to its portfolio of resorts located in six U.S. states, including Attitash and Crotched Mountain in New Hampshire and Mount Snow in Vermont, Wildcat Mountain becomes the 12th ski resort currently owned and operated by Peak Resorts. 

“Wildcat Mountain is a legendary ski resort known to many in the industry and it has a lot of history,” said Peak Resorts CEO Tim Boyd. “I am pleased to add Wildcat Mountain to Peak Resorts because it offers a unique, year-round experience in a one-of-a-kind location and there are opportunities for growth and improvement over the long-term that we can consider and are familiar with delivering at all of our resorts.”

In 1933, the Civilian Conservation Corps started clearing the Wildcat trail, one of the first ski racing trails built in the United States.* Twenty-five years later, on January 25th 1958, Wildcat Mountain opened for lift-serviced skiing with The Wildcat Gondola and a single T-bar surface lift. Wildcat's trademark for many years, the Wildcat Gondola was the first lift of this type in the U.S. to be built. Pat Franchi and his family purchased Wildcat Mountain from original developers in 1986 and made significant capital investments to day lodge facilities, snowmaking, summer attractions, and lifts. In 1997, Pat replaced the original gondola with the Wildcat Express: a high-speed detachable quad chairlift that accesses the greater than 4,000’ summit in just over 6 minutes providing visitors over 2,100 vertical feet of skiing and riding in the winter and is converted in the summer and fall with 4-person enclosed gondola cabins to be the state’s highest scenic gondola. The legacy of Pat Franchi’s stewardship will be that he made improvements to and enabled the ski area to continue operating for more than two decades and support to many charitable foundations including the continued annual Yahoo weekends hosting children and their families from Boston’s Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

Attitash opened as a single mountain resort originally for the 1964-65 ski season and was known then as the “red carpet ski area” because of its reservation requirements and attention to guest service. In the mid-1990s, Attitash dramatically increased the available skiing & riding acreage by developing the Bear Peak area that included the installation of a high-speed summit quad chairlift as well as adding open glades, wider intermediate terrain, some of the state’s most sought after alpine race trails including Illusion, and the slopeside Attitash Grand Summit Hotel. Acquired by Peak Resorts in 2007 and having invested over $5,000,000 in capital improvements and resort enhancements including state-of-the-art snowmaking and New England’s longest mountain coaster, Attitash Mountain Resort continues to offer a high-end experience both on and off the slopes.

The two resorts are already considering the marketing opportunities and potential value offered in ticket and season pass products valid at both resorts for the approaching 2010/2011 season. “Being two of New Hampshire’s larger resorts and located in relative close proximity to one another, there is much to be gained in ticket and season pass products that are valid at both Attitash Mountain Resort and Wildcat Mountain,” said Peak Resorts Vice-President Kent Graham. “Visitors to our valley and locals alike will now be able to gain greater value and access to the best of each resort’s defining attributes and distinctive qualities.” Graham also stated that Peak Resorts will be replacing old snow gun technology at Wildcat Mountain with more productive and energy efficient snowmaking equipment as well as upgrading and expanding the snow grooming fleet this season.

###

Peak Resorts is a leader and innovator in the ski industry committed to building an enhanced resort experience. It currently owns and operates several U.S. ski resorts including: Attitash (NH), Boston Mills (OH), Brandywine (OH), Crotched Mountain (NH), Hidden Valley (MO), Jack Frost (PA), Big Boulder (PA), Mad River Mountain (OH), Mount Snow (VT), Paoli Peaks (IN), and Snow Creek (MO). Peak Resorts is defined by the passion, determination, and commitment of each of its resorts to family recreation, improvements in technology, and service. For further information, please visit www.peakresorts.com.

Wildcat Mountain, located 100% within the White Mountain National Forest in Pinkham Notch, is home to New Hampshire’s most powerful quad summit chair lift and is renowned for its high summit elevation over 4,000 feet; greater than 2,100 vertical feet of skiing & riding; longest novice trail in the state at just under 3 miles; & proximity to Mt. Washington that contributes to 200 inches of snow and a long winter/spring season annually.* Wildcat Mountain has consistently been rated #1 Scenery and Top Ten in the East for Terrain, Challenge, Value, and Overall Satisfaction by readers of SKI Magazine. For further information, please visit www.skiwildcat.com or call 1-888- SKI WILD.

Attitash Mountain Resort, located in the Mount Washington Valley and considered New Hampshire’s premier year-round vacation area, has been ranked amongst the East’s top ten ski resorts for snow, grooming, weather, dining, après ski, off-hill activities and family programs by readers of SKI Magazine. Offering two distinct mountains, Attitash and Bear Peak, and one of New England’s most advanced snow making systems, Attitash is known for its signature terrain parks, ski school & children’s programs, open-glade terrain, après entertainment, family value, the new mountain coaster attraction, and quality slopeside accommodations featuring the Attitash Grand Summit Hotel. For further information, please visit www.attitash.com or call 1-800- 223 SNOW.

Mirus Resort Capital, an investment banking firm located in Burlington, Massachusetts, advised the seller in this transaction. Mirus Resort Capital focuses on mid-market mergers, acquisitions, and debt & equity placement in resort, recreation, & hospitality industries. For further information, please visit www.mirusresortcapital.com.


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## billski (Oct 21, 2010)

Starting to feel like Les Otten's monolith.

No wonder nobody has answered my calls or mail for two months....

Where did  you find this?


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## Smellytele (Oct 21, 2010)

double edged sword...

"upgrading and expanding the snow grooming fleet this season."


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## thetrailboss (Oct 21, 2010)

Great news and not surprising is that (1) there will be a joint marketing effort, and (2) improvements will focus on snowmaking.


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## threecy (Oct 21, 2010)

frozencorn said:


> Done deal.



Just to be clear, it's not technically a done deal yet - rather, I believe it's just a P&S.  Triple Peaks also had a P&S in place with American Skiing Company for Steamboat.

That said, all indications show that the deal will happen.


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## frozencorn (Oct 21, 2010)

Right, but for intents and purposes.....done deal. 



billski said:


> Starting to feel like Les Otten's monolith.
> 
> No wonder nobody has answered my calls or mail for two months....
> 
> Where did  you find this?



Press release e-mailed to me.


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## billski (Oct 21, 2010)

http://skiwildcat.blogspot.com/

http://www.skiwildcat.com/news.html


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## midd (Oct 21, 2010)

Love it as an Attitash pass holder (well, not this season with the temporary relocation to DC)


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## snowmonster (Oct 21, 2010)

If it's on Boston.com, it's probably true.

http://www.boston.com/travel/blog/2010/10/peak_resorts_pu.html?p1=Upbox_links


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## mikestaple (Oct 21, 2010)

Makes sense.  Peak is trying to figure out what to do with the hotel at Attitash (all season, all the time - mountain roller coaster, water slides etc).  So if they can offer both mountains on a ski and stay pack, that would enhance that property in the winter.  In the off ski season, they can package Wildcat's lift to the top.

Now if Peak would do something about the lifts at Attitash -instead of stuffing all their improvements into Mt. Snow........  Will be interesting to see in the next few years what $ is invested in the combo Attitash Wildcat complex they now have.

Didn't Cranmore just get sold - wonder if that prompted them to grab a second ski mountain in that area.


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## threecy (Oct 21, 2010)

mikestaple said:


> Didn't Cranmore just get sold



Earlier this year to the owners of Jiminy Peak (MA)


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## john1200c (Oct 21, 2010)

Just saw on Attitash website that the season passes will be good at Wildcat too.  Thats awesome.


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## Puck it (Oct 21, 2010)

NH could entered the late season skiing as a real competitor this year. I hope. I love skiing Wildcat in May.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 21, 2010)

Actually, this makes real sense for Peaks because now they have an early and late season candidate to compete with against Boyne. Forget POWDR. With Wildcat, Peaks now has an offering that caters to the masses and the wider spectrum of the market. I would not be surprised to see them modify Wildcat to be the late (and early) season go-to place for passholders.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 21, 2010)

If they did end up buying Wildcat, I would seriously consider a Peaks pass if it was priced similarly to the Boyne Silver.


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## Edd (Oct 21, 2010)

I can't believe the Cat is getting the corporate treatment.  This is going to be really interesting.


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## riverc0il (Oct 21, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Actually, this makes real sense for Peaks because now they have an early and late season candidate to compete with against Boyne. Forget POWDR. With Wildcat, Peaks now has an offering that caters to the masses and the wider spectrum of the market. I would not be surprised to see them modify Wildcat to be the late (and early) season go-to place for passholders.


I can see them going really late with just a little more snow making on key trails. Going early would likely require an upper mountain lift. Would an freaking awesome to be able to upload on the quad and ski off the upper mountain in October and early November. An upper mountain lift at the Cat would likely be one of the best early open possibilities in New England. I don't see them going early without an upload though I guess they could blow the snot out of Bobcat if it got cold enough and with better guns.


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## Puck it (Oct 21, 2010)

The quad is lower enough at the mid point to do that.  But I wonder if they could put a lift back in where the summit chair was. Could be an interesting idea. Like a used one.  For cheaper then $3million. 


Anybody know where a used lift could be found for cheap money?

What was that guy's name again?  Anybody remember?


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## billski (Oct 21, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Anybody know where a used lift could be found for cheap money?



'scutney?


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 21, 2010)

If memory serves the sale price was $2m about 8ish years ago. I bet they paid less despite Wildcats summer upgrade with their big zipline with the big view.


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## eatskisleep (Oct 21, 2010)

http://www.resortboneyard.com/list.php?category=12

As far as a great combo pass? I don't know... still really skeptical, I'd much rather see a Cannon/Wildcat deal.


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## Puck it (Oct 21, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> http://www.resortboneyard.com/list.php?category=12
> 
> As far as a great combo pass? I don't know... still really skeptical, I'd much rather see a Cannon/Wildcat deal.


 

Bear Peak has some pretty good glades, not overly technical though.


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## drjeff (Oct 21, 2010)

*Peak Resorts buys Wildcat*

http://www.skiwildcat.com/news.html#249

"Thu, Oct 21, 2010
Peak Resorts Acquires New Hampshire Ski Area Wildcat Mountain. Two Of Mount Washington Valley’s Largest Ski Resorts Will Offer Combination Ticket & Season Pass Products. Click For More Info.


Wildwood, MO – Peak Resorts announced today that it has entered in to a purchase agreement with Pat Franchi to acquire all Wildcat Mountain Ski Area assets and attractions in Pinkham Notch, New Hampshire. Parties involved expect to finalize the purchase pending approval by the U.S. Forest Service. Adding to its portfolio of resorts located in six U.S. states, including Attitash and Crotched Mountain in New Hampshire and Mount Snow in Vermont, Wildcat Mountain becomes the 12th ski resort currently owned and operated by Peak Resorts. 

“Wildcat Mountain is a legendary ski resort known to many in the industry and it has a lot of history,” said Peak Resorts CEO Tim Boyd. “I am pleased to add Wildcat Mountain to Peak Resorts because it offers a unique, year-round experience in a one-of-a-kind location and there are opportunities for growth and improvement over the long-term that we can consider and are familiar with delivering at all of our resorts.”

In 1933, the Civilian Conservation Corps started clearing the Wildcat trail, one of the first ski racing trails built in the United States. Twenty-five years later, on January 25th 1958, Wildcat Mountain opened for lift-serviced skiing with The Wildcat Gondola and a single T-bar surface lift. Wildcat's trademark for many years, the Wildcat Gondola was the first lift of this type in the U.S. to be built. Pat Franchi and his family purchased Wildcat Mountain from original developers in 1986 and made significant capital investments to day lodge facilities, snowmaking, summer attractions, and lifts. In 1997, Pat replaced the original gondola with the Wildcat Express: a high-speed detachable quad chairlift that accesses the greater than 4,000’ summit in just over 6 minutes providing visitors over 2,100 vertical feet of skiing and riding in the winter and is converted in the summer and fall with 4-person enclosed gondola cabins to be the state’s highest scenic gondola. The legacy of Pat Franchi’s stewardship will be that he made improvements to and enabled the ski area to continue operating for more than two decades and support to many charitable foundations including the continued annual Yahoo weekends hosting children and their families from Boston’s Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

Attitash opened as a single mountain resort originally for the 1964-65 ski season and was known then as the “red carpet ski area” because of its reservation requirements and attention to guest service. In the mid-1990s, Attitash dramatically increased the available skiing & riding acreage by developing the Bear Peak area that included the installation of a high-speed summit quad chairlift as well as adding open glades, wider intermediate terrain, some of the state’s most sought after alpine race trails including Illusion, and the slopeside Attitash Grand Summit Hotel. Acquired by Peak Resorts in 2007 and having invested over $5,000,000 in capital improvements and resort enhancements including state-of-the-art snowmaking and New England’s longest mountain coaster, Attitash Mountain Resort continues to offer a high-end experience both on and off the slopes.

The two resorts are already considering the marketing opportunities and potential value offered in ticket and season pass products valid at both resorts for the approaching 2010/2011 season. “Being two of New Hampshire’s larger resorts and located in relative close proximity to one another, there is much to be gained in ticket and season pass products that are valid at both Attitash Mountain Resort and Wildcat Mountain,” said Peak Resorts Vice-President Kent Graham. “Visitors to our valley and locals alike will now be able to gain greater value and access to the best of each resort’s defining attributes and distinctive qualities.” Graham also stated that Peak Resorts will be replacing old snow gun technology at Wildcat Mountain with more productive and energy efficient snowmaking equipment as well as upgrading and expanding the snow grooming fleet this season.


###

Peak Resorts is a leader and innovator in the ski industry committed to building an enhanced resort experience. It currently owns and operates several U.S. ski resorts including: Attitash (NH), Boston Mills (OH), Brandywine (OH), Crotched Mountain (NH), Hidden Valley (MO), Jack Frost (PA), Big Boulder (PA), Mad River Mountain (OH), Mount Snow (VT), Paoli Peaks (IN), and Snow Creek (MO). Peak Resorts is defined by the passion, determination, and commitment of each of its resorts to family recreation, improvements in technology, and service. For further information, please visit www.peakresorts.com.

Wildcat Mountain, located 100% within the White Mountain National Forest in Pinkham Notch, is home to New Hampshire’s most powerful quad summit chair lift and is renowned for its high summit elevation over 4,000 feet; greater than 2,100 vertical feet of skiing & riding; longest novice trail in the state at just under 3 miles; & proximity to Mt. Washington that contributes to 200 inches of snow and a long winter/spring season annually. Wildcat Mountain has consistently been rated #1 Scenery and Top Ten in the East for Terrain, Challenge, Value, and Overall Satisfaction by readers of SKI Magazine. For further information, please visit www.skiwildcat.com or call 1-888- SKI WILD.

Attitash Mountain Resort, located in the Mount Washington Valley and considered New Hampshire’s premier year-round vacation area, has been ranked amongst the East’s top ten ski resorts for snow, grooming, weather, dining, après ski, off-hill activities and family programs by readers of SKI Magazine. Offering two distinct mountains, Attitash and Bear Peak, and one of New England’s most advanced snow making systems, Attitash is known for its signature terrain parks, ski school & children’s programs, open-glade terrain, après entertainment, family value, the new mountain coaster attraction, and quality slopeside accommodations featuring the Attitash Grand Summit Hotel. For further information, please visit www.attitash.com or call 1-800- 223 SNOW.

Mirus Resort Capital, an investment banking firm located in Burlington, Massachusetts, advised the seller in this transaction. Mirus Resort Capital focuses on mid-market mergers, acquisitions, and debt & equity placement in resort, recreation, & hospitality industries. For further information, please visit www.mirusresortcapital.com."


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## drjeff (Oct 21, 2010)

Just figured that since it's official now that this needed its own thread, not a speculation thread


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## deadheadskier (Oct 21, 2010)

Puck it said:


> The quad is lower enough at the mid point to do that.  But I wonder if they could put a lift back in where the summit chair was.



I don't know where I've read it, but I know that I'm not dreaming it up.  Apparently Wildcat can put in a mid-mountain to summit lift with minimal permitting headaches as they had one before.

Early season it would be great.  I like the idea of late season potential even more though.  You've already got an audience of late season diehards across the street at Tuckermans.  If they make a long trek to the region and conditions aren't optimal on the rock pile, having lift serviced across the street would be a grand alternative.


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## snoseek (Oct 21, 2010)

So does this mean they will be on the same season pass. If so I wish I had this pass this winter.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 21, 2010)

What was the early bird price for a non-holiday season pass from Peaks????


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## drjeff (Oct 21, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> What was the early bird price for a non-holiday season pass from Peaks????





My all inclusive Nor'easter pass was $899 early bird.  Still haven't heard if the Nor'easter will also include Wildcat now for this season, but if the Attitash only passes are also going to be good at Wildcat, I'm guessing the Nor'easter's would be too


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## riverc0il (Oct 21, 2010)

If Peaks adds Wildcat to the Nor'easter Pass, that would be an incredible pass option, especially for those that can hit Crotched within a short drive and/or want some night skiing. $899 early rate for four locations with no black out dates is a steal. Boyne has the better mountains on their multi-mountain deal but that would give Peaks the benefit of convenience and centralized options to a major destination like North Conway. Add in an area that has definite early/late potential in Wildcat and Peaks could be seeing increased market share.


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## billski (Oct 21, 2010)

the other thread reported that an Attitash pass can ski at Wildcat this year.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 21, 2010)

drjeff said:


> My all inclusive Nor'easter pass was $899 early bird.  Still haven't heard if the Nor'easter will also include Wildcat now for this season, but if the Attitash only passes are also going to be good at Wildcat, I'm guessing the Nor'easter's would be too



pretty darn good deal for no blackouts.  

worth a look for me next season.

Hope Peaks still offers the Sunday afternoon cruise for $25 at Wildcat.  I didn't go there last year, but have used that deal several times the few years prior.  Great option if you're out late doing something social on a Saturday night.


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## midd (Oct 21, 2010)

Classic Pass (Attitash only with 11 BO dates) was $479 last year w/purchase by June 1.  Granite, which included Crotched was $579 early bird.  

my father in law that lives in Madison is psyched.


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## SIKSKIER (Oct 22, 2010)

*It will*



drjeff said:


> My all inclusive Nor'easter pass was $899 early bird.  Still haven't heard if the Nor'easter will also include Wildcat now for this season, but if the Attitash only passes are also going to be good at Wildcat, I'm guessing the Nor'easter's would be too



Just looked on Attitash's website and the Nor'easter pass includes Attitash,Wildcat,Crotched,Mt Snow,and Jack Frost.


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## EPB (Oct 22, 2010)

SIKSKIER said:


> Just looked on Attitash's website and the Nor'easter pass includes Attitash,Wildcat,Crotched,Mt Snow,and Jack Frost.



This is very big news for anyone who uses the Mount Washington Valley as a base.  Wildcat season ticket holders will probably not be happy to see their prices increase, but this acquisition doesn't really seem to have any other losers.  Due to US Forest Service regulations, it is unlikely that trails will be widened and straightened to the point where they are tarnished.

Things I hope for are: improved snowmaking, a summit area lift (summit quad mid load where the triple used to start), and improved lodge facilities.  I would imagine that a lodge renovation/expansion is fairly high on Peak's list of priorities.  Hopefully the Bobcat(?) lodge might also see more use as well.  I would really hope that Peak would decide to do something with the summit gondola building.  Whether they need to build a new structure, or renovate the current one, having a true summit lodge could be a huge attraction and exciting for skiers and pedestrians alike.  

This could be the start of a potentially great new era in Wildcat/MWV skiing.  Attitash and Wildcat are under peak, Cranmore has new ownership, and Black is still Black.  Very exciting times.  I just hope that Peak is able to enhance what Wildcat already as, instead of trying to make it something distinctly different.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 22, 2010)

So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.


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## eatskisleep (Oct 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.



I would get snowmaking ready to blast on gondi-line top to bottom and build a ridiculousbase so skiing can happen well into May, top to bottom bumps.

Still not looking forward to higher ticket prices etc... they have already risen enough in recent years...


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## drjeff (Oct 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.



Based on what they did when they acquired both Mount Snow and Attitash (Crotched was a different situation since they brought it back from the dead basically),  this season, expect some SMI Polecats to show up likely more as the season goes on, and as they said in their press release, a new groomer or two.  Next summer, likely see a bunch of work to the snowmaking infastructure and a bunch more polecats.  Lift wise, Peak has tended with both Mount Snow and Attitash to be conservative, and as I've heard Peak admins say at the Mount Snow passholders meetings these last few years "we're a skiing company, not a realestate company" so from their perspective, priority #1 is about providing as good a quality snow surface as possible.

Lift wise, well one thing that might just work out in Wildcat's advantage, especially with respect to an upper mountain lift, is that as of next summer,  Peak will likely have (unless they sell them on the open market), a used fixed grip quad and a used fixed grip triple at their disposal with the coming lift upgrades at Mount Snow :idea:


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## Puck it (Oct 22, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Based on what they did when they acquired both Mount Snow and Attitash (Crotched was a different situation since they brought it back from the dead basically), this season, expect some SMI Polecats to show up likely more as the season goes on, and as they said in their press release, a new groomer or two. Next summer, likely see a bunch of work to the snowmaking infastructure and a bunch more polecats. Lift wise, Peak has tended with both Mount Snow and Attitash to be conservative, and as I've heard Peak admins say at the Mount Snow passholders meetings these last few years "we're a skiing company, not a realestate company" so from their perspective, priority #1 is about providing as good a quality snow surface as possible.
> 
> Lift wise, well one thing that might just work out in Wildcat's advantage, especially with respect to an upper mountain lift, is that as of next summer, Peak will likely have (unless they sell them on the open market), a used fixed grip quad and a used fixed grip triple at their disposal with the coming lift upgrades at Mount Snow :idea:


 

Forgot about those lifts at Mt Snow.  That would be interesting to see what they did with them. The old footings are still there, I think. In regards to Ploecats,  Wildcat probably is not the best place for these with all of the wind.  A few in the base area but nothing lining the runs.  I think they would stick with the stand ground guns due to the winds.


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## ski_resort_observer (Oct 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.



Depends on ones perspective.....from a business standpoint can you invest a bunch of money on snowmaking and lifts without increasing skier visits? Without building some lodging at the base? I know all about the USFS and there are a couple of paths(both costly) the resort can pursue to gain developement land at the base. If you increase skier visits those folks will be driving from either Gorham or North Conway. Lodging at the base will decrease that, just one point the USFS would like.

The new ownership has to change Wildcat in some ways. Most changes some people will like, some people will hate. I don't think there is much to compare Wildcat to some of Peaks other properties like Mt Snow or even Attitash. The MWV is a popular place in the summer, I have to believe that the new Wildcat will build on the success of the their zipline. The view, omg, what a view from the trails. They don't need a super tele lens for Mt Washington like Sunday River did to market the place. :lol:


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.



pretty much all that.

-Upper Mountain Lift - just a double would suffice for early / late season.  I'm generally not a fan of mid stations.

-Improved Snowmaking

-Refurbishing Summit Lodge and Bobcat Lodge.  

-There are some great upper mountain 'stashes', but they're awfully narrow and get played out quickly.  I'd
open up the entire area between Upper Catapult, Upper Wildcat and Cat Cut off.   

- I'd also see if there was a way to put a trail in between Pole Cat and Upper Lynx.   There's a lot of real estate in there.  One thing Wildcat suffers from is too much capacity for limited terrain off the summit.  To somehow mitigate that would be a top concern.


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## EPB (Oct 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.



In order of importance:

Snowmaking improvements, if they're in as bad of shape as they've been rumored to be.

Lodge improvements.  Summit would be really cool. The current base lodge is pretty small, so either an expansion or revamping of the Bobcat lodge would be helpful.

Summit area:  If anyone has actually been to Tremblant in the past 7-10 years, they've seen that mid-stations can be engaged and disengaged depending on the season.  If possible, this could be the most cost effective way for Wildcat to operate early late season.

Fixing the downhill capacity in the summit are would also be very helpful.  A new trail and upper mountain glades (which the kitty currently lacks on the map) would help rectify capacity issues.

Dreaming big, I'd love to see a lift up to Big Wildcat (4400 feet).  It's got the vertical to host an Olympic downhill run and would have miles and miles of great terrain.  Too bad it won't happen.


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## St. Bear (Oct 22, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> Dreaming big, I'd love to see a lift up to Big Wildcat (4400 feet).  It's got the vertical to host an Olympic downhill run and would have miles and miles of great terrain.  Too bad it won't happen.



The topo map sure looks nice.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> Dreaming big, I'd love to see a lift up to Big Wildcat (4400 feet).  It's got the vertical to host an Olympic downhill run and would have miles and miles of great terrain.  Too bad it won't happen.



While that would rule, you would most likely being saying goodbye to Thompson Brook as we know it.


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## EPB (Oct 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> While that would rule, you would most likely being saying goodbye to Thompson Brook as we know it.



I know.... There's really no winning with terrain expansions it seems.  Someone/something ends up getting tarnished.  My hope would be that hard cores would cut new back country from the other summit to the Great Glen Trails lodge. Still, it wouldn't be the same


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## 2Planker (Oct 22, 2010)

Granite Pass  (No Cranmore)  is $699 until Nov. 9.   Not a bad deal for The Cat, Attitash and Crotched, w/ No Blackout Days.....


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## Smellytele (Oct 22, 2010)

2Planker said:


> Granite Pass  (No Cranmore)  is $699 until Nov. 9.   Not a bad deal for The Cat, Attitash and Crotched, w/ No Blackout Days.....



Why the (No Cranmore)? They don't own Cranmore.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 22, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> Why the (No Cranmore)? They don't own Cranmore.


 
Does he mean no Mount Snow?


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## 2Planker (Oct 22, 2010)

Yup !  For some reason I thought the 3rd resort was local....

Snow, Crotched, Attitash + Wildcat hopefully now


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## Smellytele (Oct 22, 2010)

2Planker said:


> Yup !  For some reason I thought the 3rd resort was local....
> 
> Snow, Crotched, Attitash + Wildcat hopefully now



Snow is included in their New england pass  or whatevah it is called.


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## john1200c (Oct 22, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> Snow is included in their New england pass  or whatevah it is called.



Yeah, Granite pass has the 3 NH areas.  Attitash, Wildcat and Crotched


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## riverc0il (Oct 22, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So let's say that you are Peaks Resorts.  After closing the deal, what improvements/changes would you make?  I would focus on upgrading the snowmaking system and assessing the lifts.  I would consider the midstation idea that was discussed or the re-installation of a lift that serves the upper portions of the mountain.


Snowmaking. Absolute first priority. And I think Peaks has a history of doing this first so it certainly should be the first thing to look out for.

Second, I think they should rehab the summit building. The thing is an eye sore. It would be great to have a place to warm up on the top of the mountain on a cold day. Certainly would beat walking across the bridge back into the lodge. They could make some serious money with a nice cafe with beverage service (a la Cannon, Loon, Stowe, etc.).

Not sure anything else really "needs" to be done. The place is 100% turn key with all essentials there. I don't know what their rental situation looks like. I am sure Peaks will revamp the base lodge to make it easier for families to move more efficiently, clean up down stairs, etc. The Bobcat Lodge certainly has potential for something. I don't know what.

I don't think the mid-mountain lift needs immediate consideration. I think it would be incredible if they pursued it.


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## Sky (Oct 22, 2010)

I wonder if Wildcat will still offer the 100K challenge in March this season?


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 22, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> While that would rule, you would most likely being saying goodbye to Thompson Brook as we know it.


The thing about terrain/access expansions like that is while it would destroy Thompson Brook as you know it, it would create Thompson Brook 2 further up the ridge.  When you increase access, the woodchucks tend to start working beyond the new boundaries.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2010)

Tin Woodsman said:


> The thing about terrain/access expansions like that is while it would destroy Thompson Brook as you know it, it would create Thompson Brook 2 further up the ridge.  When you increase access, the woodchucks tend to start working beyond the new boundaries.



Ideally they'd just leave at as is and put it on the map.  Not that it's even really worth discussing.  Total dream to expand over there.  ain't gonna happen.


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 23, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Ideally they'd just leave at as is and put it on the map.  Not that it's even really worth discussing.  Total dream to expand over there.  ain't gonna happen.



Agreed.  Bring it on the map, along with the inbounds and slackcountry stashes elsewhere, and you'd double the size of Wildcat in an instant.


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## AdironRider (Oct 23, 2010)

Now wheres the fun in that?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 23, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> Now wheres the fun in that?



I was just referring to if there ever was an expansion over that way, that they'd leave Thompson alone and put it on the map.  Hell, they might as well put it on the map as it is right now.  Not really a 'secret'.  Last time I was in there I stopped for a breather and a caravan of 5 eight year old girls came ripping through right by me.   No parents with them.  I assume they were junior race team kids / pass holders.  

There are some cool stashes at Wildcat, but many are narrow two to three line wide areas.  They get played out real quick and turn into luge runs.  If I were in charge, I'd just glade everything within the boundaries.  It gets enough snow and holds it well.  Wildcat would do well as a boundary to boundary area.  It would certainly take some pressure off the trails that get skied off so quickly.


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## AdironRider (Oct 23, 2010)

I agree, and while its been a few years, if I recall theres a lot of stuff in there thats super, super thick, but it would definitely be worth it to thin it out a bit.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 23, 2010)

White Mountain curse.  Tight soft wood forests at elevation.

It's part of the reason why Northern Vt has so much better tree skiing.  Not only do the Northern Greens average close to 100 inches more snow each year than the Whites, they're lower elevation well spaced hardwoods.


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## Smellytele (Oct 24, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I was just referring to if there ever was an expansion over that way, that they'd leave Thompson alone and put it on the map.  Hell, they might as well put it on the map as it is right now.  Not really a 'secret'.  Last time I was in there I stopped for a breather and a caravan of 5 eight year old girls came ripping through right by me.   No parents with them.  I assume they were junior race team kids / pass holders.
> 
> There are some cool stashes at Wildcat, but many are narrow two to three line wide areas.  They get played out real quick and turn into luge runs.  If I were in charge, I'd just glade everything within the boundaries.  It gets enough snow and holds it well.  Wildcat would do well as a boundary to boundary area.  It would certainly take some pressure off the trails that get skied off so quickly.



As long as they "glade it out" better than some of their others that they gladed out too much and now are closer to reforest. They can't just leave the birches for they get pummeled by the weather when left all alone.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 24, 2010)

Great to see that Wildcat is getting so much attention.  Hopefully Peaks is listening and reading this thread.  FWIW Tim Boyd is no stranger to AZ.


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## drjeff (Oct 24, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Great to see that Wildcat is getting so much attention.  Hopefully Peaks is listening and reading this thread.  FWIW Tim Boyd is no stranger to AZ.



And if Tim Boyd does what he often does at his resorts every now and then, he'll be on the slopes of Wildcat lugging snowmaking hoses around and repositioning some fan guns this winter!  

BTW, for those that don't know,  Tim Boyd doesn't ski or ride either,  but he really enjoys making snow!


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## thetrailboss (Oct 24, 2010)

drjeff said:


> And if Tim Boyd does what he often does at his resorts every now and then, he'll be on the slopes of Wildcat lugging snowmaking hoses around and repositioning some fan guns this winter!
> 
> BTW, for those that don't know, Tim Boyd doesn't ski or ride either, but he really enjoys making snow!


 
That is what is nice about Peaks, Boyne, and Win Smith at Sugarbush.  They are at the "office" when they can be and out in front working and doing PR.  Part of the reason why Ascutney failed was that its owners let their heads get too big by being ski area owners.  They were not great with staff and people from what I heard.


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## billski (Oct 24, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> That is what is nice about Peaks, Boyne, and Win Smith at Sugarbush.  They are at the "office" when they can be and out in front working and doing PR.  Part of the reason why Ascutney failed was that its owners let their heads get too big by being ski area owners.  They were not great with staff and people from what I heard.



Seems to me that smaller areas survive because their owners have passion about the sport, and get outside everyday to ski or board.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 24, 2010)

billski said:


> Seems to me that smaller areas survive because their owners have passion about the sport, and get outside everyday to ski or board.


 
True.  The Ascutney folks were in it to see and be seen.  I uke:at the Ascutney 2006-2007 magazine which had pictures of the owners throughout the magazine trying to look involved...


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## thetrailboss (Oct 24, 2010)

And FWIW I will say it again: I think that Peaks is a good thing for Wildcat.  Hopefully I won't regret saying it, but they bring a stable business background, some good improvements at their mountains with regards to snowmaking, and they know the business.  I highly doubt that they will dumb down Wildcat or over widen it in places, but instead keep it as it is and add it to their portfolio to add diversity and something that they lack: a wild, large, old school mountain with some great terrain and plentiful natural snow.


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## riverc0il (Oct 24, 2010)

I agree with TB, this could be a great thing for the Cat. Peaks WILL bring the snow making, we know that for sure. Lodge upgrades, I can't imagine those not being done. Will they leave the terrain/trails as they are without any "improvements"? I think that is the major unknown and will likely be the determining factor in their reception.


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## polariso (Oct 25, 2010)

*The Cat*

I wouldn't mind seeing some glade clearing up there..As far as expansion goes, id think parking was at its maximum.


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## eatskisleep (Oct 25, 2010)

polariso said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing some glade clearing up there..As far as expansion goes, id think parking was at its maximum.



If they kept it like Mad River Glen or Jay, where they cut stuff but keep most of it off the map that would be fine, but as soon as stuff is put on the map, it is skied off far too quickly. Even the stuff currently listed as "proposed tree skiing" which was thinned, is skied off too quick. Great on a power day if you get there early, but most of the good stuff is gone quick!


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## tcharron (Oct 25, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> If Peaks adds Wildcat to the Nor'easter Pass, that would be an incredible pass option, especially for those that can hit Crotched within a short drive and/or want some night skiing. $899 early rate for four locations with no black out dates is a steal. Boyne has the better mountains on their multi-mountain deal but that would give Peaks the benefit of convenience and centralized options to a major destination like North Conway. Add in an area that has definite early/late potential in Wildcat and Peaks could be seeing increased market share.



It appears as if it's included now in the Noreaster, as well as Granite pass.

http://www.skiwildcat.com/pr/Attitash_Wildcat_ComboPass_FinalEdit-1.pdf

Even better, they are letting the existing wildcat passholders 'upgrade' to the Granite pass for like 50$, which would add Attitash and Crotched to their passes.


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## tcharron (Oct 25, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> If Peaks adds Wildcat to the Nor'easter Pass, that would be an incredible pass option, especially for those that can hit Crotched within a short drive and/or want some night skiing. $899 early rate for four locations with no black out dates is a steal. Boyne has the better mountains on their multi-mountain deal but that would give Peaks the benefit of convenience and centralized options to a major destination like North Conway. Add in an area that has definite early/late potential in Wildcat and Peaks could be seeing increased market share.



Looks like they did just that, starting right now..  :-D


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## KD7000 (Nov 9, 2010)

Not sure if this was mentioned already, but Wildcat has eliminated their "ski free on your birthday" special.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 9, 2010)

KD7000 said:


> Not sure if this was mentioned already, but Wildcat has eliminated their "ski free on your birthday" special.


 
Interesting considering that I don't think that the deal has been closed.  Must be a transition team or something that made that call.  

Anyone on the ground notice any changes?  Any new snowguns/fan guns?


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## Angus (Nov 9, 2010)

KD7000 said:


> Not sure if this was mentioned already, but Wildcat has eliminated their "ski free on your birthday" special.



too bad, my son took advantage of that deal a couple years in a row and Wildcat always got an adult ticket sale out of it. nice "bene" that made me feel good - for a guy born in late May!


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## eatskisleep (Nov 10, 2010)

They got rid of more than just that... unfortunately...


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## bigbob (Nov 10, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> They got rid of more than just that... unfortunately...



 I don't see the midweek two for one, is that what you are referring to??


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## frozencorn (Nov 10, 2010)

Lifetime season passes
Wildcard
$9 Fridays
2 for 1 
Free birthday
$25 Sunday afternoons
$39 your next day....

all gone.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 10, 2010)

frozencorn said:


> Lifetime season passes


 
I wonder if there is going to be a lawsuit over that.....:uzi::uzi::smash::smash::???::wink:



> Wildcard


 
I'm sure that they will do something for a card and other promos...


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## frozencorn (Nov 10, 2010)

Attitash and Wildcat have both been hinting about a new deal they're unveiling Thursday. So, wel'll see what that brings.

From WC facebook discussion:

Wildcat Mountain will not offer a discount bulk ticket program to EICSL to then re-sell to members. I can't say that you'll entirely reconsider, but I'm pretty excited about a product that will be announced at the Bo...ston Ski Show and will continue to be offered after the show that should suit the EICSL member and equally important NON-EICSL member who skis or rides ten days or less like you have profiled. You might see then that Peak Resorts, as it relates to Attitash Mountain Resort and Wildcat Mountain, is looking beyond just the EICSL group when it considers visitor growth and loyalty.


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## billski (Nov 10, 2010)

From Wildcat's Facebook page:
*See you at The Boston Globe Ski & Snowboard Expo?*

*If so, you can get a $125 gift card on sale for $100! Gift cards are valid at both Attitash Ski Resort and Wildcat Mountain. Offer is only available at the Ski Show from Thurs., Nov. 11 - Sun., Nov. 14. See complete details at: http://attitash.com/deals.html.*


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## Smellytele (Nov 10, 2010)

If that is the deal that is crap!


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## frozencorn (Nov 10, 2010)

No, I think it's something else. Attitash has mentioned that deal, plus one they're announcing at the show tomorrow.


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## billski (Nov 10, 2010)

frozencorn said:


> No, I think it's something else. Attitash has mentioned that deal, plus one they're announcing at the show tomorrow.



You're spot on.  On their web today:

*New Product Being Announced Thursday, November 11*
             Be sure to get ready for the announcement of a new  product at the Ski  Show, which will be made available on our website as  well on Thursday,  November 11. Stay tuned!


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## polariso (Nov 10, 2010)

frozencorn said:


> Lifetime season passes
> Wildcard
> $9 Fridays
> 2 for 1
> ...


 :sad:


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## billski (Nov 14, 2010)

The Attitash vibe at the show was _really bad._
In essence, they see no need to discount.

I also noticed that Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat are not participating in the  skiNH January learn to ski program.

As soon as a resort starts using the word "product" to describe skiing and boarding, you know you're in the corporate black hole of death.


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## troy (Nov 14, 2010)

This development has added possibilties that we did not have before as Wildcat skiers, we're stoked!


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## drjeff (Nov 14, 2010)

billski said:


> The Attitash vibe at the show was _really bad._
> In essence, they see no need to discount.
> 
> I also noticed that Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat are not participating in the  skiNH January learn to ski program.
> ...



I'm not so sure of that corporate death sentence.  As someone whose seen 1st hand now the last 3 full seasons what Peak Resorts "product" at Mount Snow has been, i'm completely satisfied with it (and I know i'm not alone). Does Peak in general get rid of a bunch of the discounts? Yes Does Peak focus primarily on the snow product instead of real estate/etc - yes. Does Peak also do their changes/upgrades and keep a great deal of the existing pre Peak staff in place - yes. So things need to he given a fair chance to see what Peak can do, since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
T


----------



## Newpylong (Nov 14, 2010)

billski said:


> The Attitash vibe at the show was _really bad._
> In essence, they see no need to discount.
> 
> I also noticed that Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat are not participating in the  skiNH January learn to ski program.
> ...




I don't agree with this. Despite having 4 major mountains under their belt in New England, Peaks is the last company I would consider "Corporate". 

Discounts? ASC did a lot of discounts. Look at them now...


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## deadheadskier (Nov 14, 2010)

drjeff said:


> since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
> T



My understanding is that the family had been wanting to sell the property for quite some time.  They bought it in the mid-80s, so that's a long run.  I'm not so sure the sale has anything to do with the business model.  Plenty of family businesses get sold for under market value when the owners want to move on and the next generation of the family doesn't wish to continue that line of work.

What was the price?


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## billski (Nov 14, 2010)

drjeff said:


> I'm not so sure of that corporate death sentence.  As someone whose seen 1st hand now the last 3 full seasons what Peak Resorts "product" at Mount Snow has been, i'm completely satisfied with it (and I know i'm not alone). Does Peak in general get rid of a bunch of the discounts? Yes Does Peak focus primarily on the snow product instead of real estate/etc - yes. Does Peak also do their changes/upgrades and keep a great deal of the existing pre Peak staff in place - yes. So things need to he given a fair chance to see what Peak can do, since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
> T



No question, people willing to make longer-term, financial commitments to a single resort or group of resorts will benefit.  They are narrowing their target market.
However, large, corporate-managed operations have a remarkably different vibe than independent areas.  Never said it was a death sentence; it just marks the beginning of more institutional service.  If you're happy with how they manage things, that's all that matters.


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## EPB (Nov 14, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> My understanding is that the family had been wanting to sell the property for quite some time.  They bought it in the mid-80s, so that's a long run.  I'm not so sure the sale has anything to do with the business model.  Plenty of family businesses get sold for under market value when the owners want to move on and the next generation of the family doesn't wish to continue that line of work.
> 
> What was the price?



Deductive reasoning would suggest that the sale had to do with the price more than the business model.  Wildcat is/was probably worth more to Attitash/Peak than any other buyer because of the bundling possibilities with Attitash.  From what I can gather, the area was on the market for a good while before they could find a buyer.  The last time I was there, I actually made an argument to my buddy that the salvage value of the lifts might have been worth more than the business itself.  Don't get me wrong, Wildcat is one of my favorite places to ski.  I just don't think anyone was itching to buy it while it was on the market.  

P.S. I'd love to know what it sold for too.  Hopefully the family was able to get a decent price out of Peak.  Ski areas are about as illiquid as they come.


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## ski_resort_observer (Nov 14, 2010)

According to my notes back in 2006 both Maple Valley and Wildcat were for sale for 2m. I assume for Maple Valley you own the land whereas with Wildcat your leasing the land from the WMNF.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 14, 2010)

If only it was 10 years later and I was 10 years richer... I would love to own a mountain...


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## Edd (Nov 14, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> Deductive reasoning would suggest that the sale had to do with the price more than the business model.....The last time I was there, I actually made an argument to my buddy that the salvage value of the lifts might have been worth more than the business itself.



Bingo.  This has been suggested to me as well.  Makes you wonder.


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## EPB (Nov 15, 2010)

billski said:


> The Attitash vibe at the show was _really bad._
> In essence, they see no need to discount.
> 
> I also noticed that Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat are not participating in the  skiNH January learn to ski program.
> ...



Locals to the Mount Washington Valley probably wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that.  The local perception of Peak management is that they really don't care what anybody has to say about their "product" and that they will do whatever they think is necessary to make the most money.  

While this outlook does not give a perfect representation of Peak management, I certainly see where locals are coming from.  Peak Management has severed many ties to locals, die hards, and bargain hunters alike during their time with Attitash because they don't seem to see the value in it..... Let's not forget the discussions on this board about how valuable it is to have Wildcat and Attitash on the same ticklet/pass.  Peak knew that they were creating something valuable when they decided to by Wildcat, and they have removed many of their discounts to price their tickets accordingly.   

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly happy with Peak's handling of Wildcat either.  All of the season pass combination work at Attitash and Wildcat except for the college pass..  I have tried to pry an answer from Peak resorts on a number of occasions, and have been underwhelmed by the answer that I was given.  

PS My favorite bad vibe moment I ever got was the first year that Stowe's single day ticket price eclipsed $80.  I asked them how much a day ticket cost, and they immediately tried to steer the conversation toward staying for multiple days to lower the average ticket cost per day.  After some persistence, the guy gave up and admitted that the ticket was to cost something in the $80 range.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> Locals to the Mount Washington Valley probably wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that.  The local perception of Peak management is that they really don't care what anybody has to say about their "product" and that they will do whatever they think is necessary to make the most money.
> 
> While this outlook does not give a perfect representation of Peak management, I certainly see where locals are coming from.  Peak Management has severed many ties to locals, die hards, and bargain hunters alike during their time with Attitash because they don't seem to see the value in it..... Let's not forget the discussions on this board about how valuable it is to have Wildcat and Attitash on the same ticklet/pass.  Peak knew that they were creating something valuable when they decided to by Wildcat, and they have removed many of their discounts to price their tickets accordingly.
> 
> ...



Funny you bring up Stowe in your comments.  I was going to mention that Stowe is an area that has very few discounts available outside of ski clubs.  The mountain is without question the most expensive in the east. However, they have maintained a solid image with locals over the years by giving back to those in the community that contribute to the experience of their skiers.  

They offer:

- steeply discounted passes to anyone working for a business belonging the Stowe Area Association (Chamber of Commerce), which when I lived up there was pretty much everywhere.  I believe last year the mid-week black out pass was $350.

- My last winter in VT, 04-05, the first Thursday of every month was an industry day.  If you showed up with a recent pay stub from any Vermont hotel, restaurant or other travel and tourism related business you could ski for free.

- Full time employees get full season passes for themselves, spouses and children.

- Part time employees get full season passes if they work 16 hours a week or more.


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## Tin Woodsman (Nov 15, 2010)

drjeff said:


> I'm not so sure of that corporate death sentence.  As someone whose seen 1st hand now the last 3 full seasons what Peak Resorts "product" at Mount Snow has been, i'm completely satisfied with it (and I know i'm not alone). Does Peak in general get rid of a bunch of the discounts? Yes Does Peak focus primarily on the snow product instead of real estate/etc - yes. Does Peak also do their changes/upgrades and keep a great deal of the existing pre Peak staff in place - yes. So things need to he given a fair chance to see what Peak can do, since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
> T



The problem with this analogy is that Mt. Snow was already about as "corporate" as you could get under ASC.  Wildcat is at the opposite end of the spectrum so the changes that Peak will be implementing will be pretty dramatic as compared to what Mt. Snow skiers saw.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2010)

So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and     :

Would folks rather have an open Wildcat under Peaks with some deals scaled back, or have it on NELSAP?  

Discuss.


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## St. Bear (Nov 15, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and     :
> 
> Would folks rather have an open Wildcat under Peaks with some deals scaled back, or have it on NELSAP?
> 
> Discuss.



Was that really an option?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2010)

frozencorn said:


> Attitash and Wildcat have both been hinting about a new deal they're unveiling Thursday. So, wel'll see what that brings.
> .



http://www.skiwildcat.com/wilddeals.html

This appears to be the deal:

Buy a verticle value card for $79, get 50% off non-holiday weekdays, 25% non-holiday weekends and 10% off holiday tickets.

Unless you're able to ski there midweek several times during the season, this isn't a deal worth getting excited about at all IMO.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and     :
> 
> Would folks rather have an open Wildcat under Peaks with some deals scaled back, or have it on NELSAP?
> 
> Discuss.





St. Bear said:


> Was that really an option?



If it was a potential reality, then yes, I'd rather see Peaks buy it.  I have that opinion regardless of whether or not I will be a customer of theirs.  I don't like seeing any area close, especially a true classic like Wildcat.


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## riverc0il (Nov 15, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> http://www.skiwildcat.com/wilddeals.html
> 
> This appears to be the deal:
> 
> ...


uke:

 :lol:

On the plus side, if you have two X chromosomes or have reached half a century in age, the Corporate Kitty still has the same Tuesday and Thursday deals, respectfully, that they used to.

Interesting observation from EPB in that with a combo of Attitash and Wildcat, Peaks has really locked up the best skiing options in the Mount Washington Valley. There is still Cranmore. And folks can still drive up the road to BW or up and over to SR or Abrams. But the best close by local hills for MWV residents are no longer in competition.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 15, 2010)

St. Bear said:


> Was that really an option?


 
Well, from what I understand, Wildcat was on the market for a looooonnnnnggggg time and the family/entity that owned it was really getting tired of running it and wanted to get out.  So let's say no buyer came along.  What then?  

In reality though, you're right to some extent because Wildcat has a lot going for it.  Turns out that from what I have been reading and hearing Peaks was at the right place and the right time.  Wildcat is no small mountain.  It has good vert and a good location.  Just no potential for real estate development.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 15, 2010)

I know fed and state lands can be tough if not impossible to develope on, but would it be possible that Wildcat/Peaks could be able to add a hotel or two?  I would guess that a couple hundred hotel rooms wouldn't really leave a huge footprint in the MWV.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 15, 2010)

What's the deal with student discounts for day passes? I haven't seen anything mentioned... they used to get teen rates...

worst come to worst, I'll just get up at 5am and skin up, rip up TB and then starting heading back up again before the lift starts turning... and of course we always have across the street


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## eatskisleep (Nov 15, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> I know fed and state lands can be tough if not impossible to develope on, but would it be possible that Wildcat/Peaks could be able to add a hotel or two?  I would guess that a couple hundred hotel rooms wouldn't really leave a huge footprint in the MWV.



This would ruin Wildcat IMHO.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 15, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> This would ruin Wildcat IMHO.



Not that I care whether something like this were to occur, and I doubt it would.  I also doubt Peaks bought the place thinking this is something they could do, but why would a hotel ruin Wildcat?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> uke:
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...



when I read about this 'new deal', I kind of chuckled that I as a consumer can get a better single day usage deal from Killington of all places than I can at Wildcat.  I bought a K55 ticket to use this year.  If Wildcat offered something like it for $45, I'd buy right now.   The Sunday Liftopia deals were routinely in the $34-$49 range depending on the time of year.  

maybe I can drag my wife up to the outlets on a Tuesday and have her wear my jacket up to the ticket window in the morning before she goes shopping.  :lol:


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> This would ruin Wildcat IMHO.



I've often thought a couple hundred room hotel would be great for that business.  I don't see how it would ruin it.  Picture a hotel about 4 times the size of the base lodge tucked over off to the side down below the Tomcat lift.

Would it really make that much of a difference to the place?


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## riverc0il (Nov 15, 2010)

I don't see anything wrong with a small hotel at the bottom of Wildcat. It can be done right. Mittersill at  is a very tasteful example, the hotel is slopeside even. Heck, rates could potentially even be more competitive than the crazy AMC Lodging Company and their Joe Dodge Lodge and Highland center uke:

I don't see how they could develop real estate and sell condos or anything. But I can't see anything wrong with a hotel on the parking lot side of the brook. Would be super cool if they included a ski hostel for the dirt cheap skiers. Doubt they would do that... but I am just saying there are ways they could build a hotel and make it cool for the Cat and its culture. We are not talking about building a missile silo or anything, here.


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Interesting observation from EPB in that with a combo of Attitash and Wildcat, Peaks has really locked up the best skiing options in the Mount Washington Valley. There is still Cranmore. And folks can still drive up the road to BW or up and over to SR or Abrams. But the best close by local hills for MWV residents are no longer in competition.



Black Mountain is expecting to see an increase in local skier visits due to the merger.


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## tcharron (Nov 16, 2010)

drjeff said:


> I'm not so sure of that corporate death sentence.  As someone whose seen 1st hand now the last 3 full seasons what Peak Resorts "product" at Mount Snow has been, i'm completely satisfied with it (and I know i'm not alone). Does Peak in general get rid of a bunch of the discounts? Yes Does Peak focus primarily on the snow product instead of real estate/etc - yes. Does Peak also do their changes/upgrades and keep a great deal of the existing pre Peak staff in place - yes. So things need to he given a fair chance to see what Peak can do, since IF the old Wildcat business model was such a success, then it wouldn't have been for sale, let alone for what appears to be a firesale price
> T



  Peak Resorts product at Mt Snow != product at the other mountains.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> Black Mountain is expecting to see an increase in local skier visits due to the merger.



+1


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## thetrailboss (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> Black Mountain is expecting to see an increase in local skier visits due to the merger.


 
Was going to say that Black Mountain looks to benefit from the merger and the axing of the discounts.  Black is the go-to place now for those looking for deals now.


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## KD7000 (Nov 16, 2010)

Black Mountain is fun, but isn't nearly big enough to satisfy those who would have otherwise spent the day at Wildcat.


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

KD7000 said:


> Black Mountain is fun, but isn't nearly big enough to satisfy those who would have otherwise spent the day at Wildcat.



I don't think anyone is thinking Black Mountain would replace Wildcat as a destination resort.

Locally, though, Black Mountain is the last independently owned in the immediate area (Attitash-Black-Cranmore-Wildcat).  What's also not mentioned in this thread thus far is that Cranmore is growing into more of a resort as well.


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## KD7000 (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> I don't think anyone is thinking Black Mountain would replace Wildcat as a destination resort.


 Of course.  It was just commentary in regards to the statement that Black would be the new "go-to" place.  Sure, it's a good target for deals, but not so good for a serious day of skiing or boarding. I suppose more families will go there, but there's still a gap.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

On a Powder day, I'd rather be at Black.......

though short, there is some great experet terrain and minimal competition to chew up the snow.


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## KD7000 (Nov 16, 2010)

You're far more likely to see that powder on Wildcat than on Black, though.  The elevation increase makes a huge difference.


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## tcharron (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> I don't think anyone is thinking Black Mountain would replace Wildcat as a destination resort.
> 
> Locally, though, Black Mountain is the last independently owned in the immediate area (Attitash-Black-Cranmore-Wildcat).  What's also not mentioned in this thread thus far is that Cranmore is growing into more of a resort as well.



I think the difference is in the definition of a 'destination resort'.  Wildcat was a great place to go for a day trip for me.  Depending on how corporate wildcat gets, I could easily see myself moving.


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

KD7000 said:


> You're far more likely to see that powder on Wildcat than on Black, though.  The elevation increase makes a huge difference.



First I want to say is Wildcat is my favorite place to ski in NH. 
Then I think you are selling Black short. As DH said it has some great expert terrain for powder days. Does it get less than Wildcat? Yes but if both had powder on a given day and Wildcat was 70 clams and Black was 45 clams I may chose Black. Also just found this on Black's site.



    *
      December 1st, 2010: Hurry! Purchase before December 1st! Pre Season Ticket Deals!

      Enjoy last season prices on family passports, lift tickets and Learn to Ski or Ride Packages when you purchase before December 1, 2010. These gift certificates make great gifts, and they have no expiration date, so if you don't get to it this year, you can use them later too!

      Family Passport:             $99               Save $20!

      (2 adults, 2 juniors ski all day, any day!)

      Learn to Ski Package    $59                Save up to $20!

      (includes 90 minute group lesson, rental equipment and all-day lift tickets)

      Adult Lift Tickets 
      Weekend:    $39
      Midweek:    $29

      Junior/Senior/College (with ID) Lift Tickets 
      Weekend:    $25
      Midweek:    $20


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## tcharron (Nov 16, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> First I want to say is Wildcat is my favorite place to ski in NH.
> Then I think you are selling Black short. As DH said it has some great expert terrain for powder days. Does it get less than Wildcat? Yes but if both had powder on a given day and Wildcat was 70 clams and Black was 45 clams I may chose Black.



And to extend earlier conversations regarding a hotel and the such, if there where a hotel at Wildcat on a powder day, I'd rather be at Black where I don't have to deal with the hotelers.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 16, 2010)

Additionally a hotel would just be the first step. Once they have something in there, they will always want more. It will attract the wrong crowd.


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## tjf67 (Nov 16, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> Additionally a hotel would just be the first step. Once they have something in there, they will always want more. It will attract the wrong crowd.




The wrong crowd?  You mean the people that keep the industry going?


----------



## thetrailboss (Nov 16, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> The wrong crowd? You mean the people that keep the industry going?


 
There is a point to this.  As I have seen with Sugarbush, people complain about some "people" who have bought certain high end real estate at a premium, but the simple fact is that those folks allow for guys like me to have a place to ski (where I bring my brown bag lunch, drive up on weekend days, and have my season pass scanned).


----------



## billski (Nov 16, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> There is a point to this.  As I have seen with Sugarbush, people complain about some "people" who have bought certain high end real estate at a premium, but the simple fact is that those folks allow for guys like me to have a place to ski (where I bring my brown bag lunch, drive up on weekend days, and have my season pass scanned).



+1!!!
Even places like Vail allow people like me to ski there!


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

tcharron said:


> And to extend earlier conversations regarding a hotel and the such, if there where a hotel at Wildcat on a powder day, I'd rather be at Black where I don't have to deal with the hotelers.





eatskisleep said:


> Additionally a hotel would just be the first step. Once they have something in there, they will always want more. It will attract the wrong crowd.



There are aholes who stay in hotels, there are aholes who daytrip.

The day I start judging other skiers based upon perceived socio-economic class and allow that judgment to affect my personal enjoyment of the sport is the day I hang up the skis.


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> There are aholes who stay in hotels, there are aholes who daytrip.
> 
> The day I start judging other skiers based upon perceived socio-economic class and allow that judgment to affect my personal enjoyment of the sport is the day I hang up the skis.



+10


----------



## neil (Nov 16, 2010)

Always good to see some inverted snobbery.


----------



## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

How many people are really that upset they cant ski for 9 bucks on their birthday?

Were talking about 1 day a year, if you happen to have a birthday in the four month ski season back East. 

25 dollar Sundays half day tickets? How many people on this board took advantage of this deal last year. Im sure you did Deadhead, but anyone else? Outside of less crowds you're getting sloppy seconds at the end of a weekend. Ive never been blown away by late day weekend conditions at any mountain. Sure its still nice to ride, but Im not writing a blog like some would about it. 

39 dollar next day tickets assumes you will be staying in a hotel, or daytripping twice. Thats really not that great a deal when you add in the cost of a hotel or another 30-50 bucks in gas. 

Jesus, this is nothing but good for Wildcat. More snowmaking, combo pass with Attitash, these are all good things. 

I guess unless youre a cheap bastard and are super pissed you cant ski for 9 bucks on your birthday.


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> Jesus, this is nothing but good for Wildcat.



Quoted for posterity.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 16, 2010)

eatskisleep said:


> Additionally a hotel would just be the first step. Once they have something in there, they will always want more. It will attract the wrong crowd.



What crowd would that be?  Were talking hypothetical here (cuz it won't happen) and I don't see how a small hotel that at most would perhaps add a hundred people, would attract the wrong crowd or ruin the place.  At most this would add a hundred people to the hill that might wouldn't be there.  You have to figure that the at least a portion of the people staying there would have been there with or without hotel.


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## midd (Nov 16, 2010)

I've been an Attitash passholder for the last few years and have no complaints about the management.  As a result, I'm confident that Wildcat is in good hands.  I'll take a proven operator over financier/entrepreneur-turned ski resort owner.  The latter introduces too much risk.  For every success story like Win Smith, there are plenty more failures.  and that sucks for the consumer.  

I'm psyched to have Wildcat on the pass, and I'll probably end up skiing there one weekend day per trip when we move back from DC.


----------



## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

I was more looking forward to the $33-$49 range Sunday liftopia deals.   Heck a couple of years ago there were $28 Sundays fairly often.

As someone who likes a lot of variety and to ski several different mountains throughout the season, a frequent skier card doesn't work for me.  All of the decent single day savings programs are gone.  

I'm sure snowmaking and facilities will improve considerably, but I was fairly content with the product at Wildcat as it was.  I'm far from a 'cheap bastard', I just have a budget for skiing.  Most people do.  No matter what that budget level is, if you essentially double the cost of what people are accustomed to paying, people will get upset.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 16, 2010)

tcharron said:


> And to extend earlier conversations regarding a hotel and the such, if there where a hotel at Wildcat on a powder day, I'd rather be at Black where I don't have to deal with the hotelers.



What you mean an extra 100 to 200 people?


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> How many people are really that upset they cant ski for 9 bucks on their birthday?
> 
> Were talking about 1 day a year, if you happen to have a birthday in the four month ski season back East.
> 
> ...



How about 2 for 1 days?
How about liftopia deals?
How about ski club deals?
How about the 1 Friday every month for $9?

A lot of people who ski at Wildcat don't want to ski at Attitrash...


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> Quoted for posterity.



You should know by now I dont back down from what I say. 

Ive been wrong before, but you cant really think this is bad for Wildcat do you? 

Im just not that upset as I didnt think their deals were all that spectacular. I think the benefits of having Attitash and Wildcat on the same pass far outweigh the cons of losing a couple deals that never once convinced me to drive 2+ hours to get there. 

I do hope they continue to do the vert challenge there. I would argue Wildcat is bar none the best place in the country to rack up pure unadulterated vert. If your a vert junkie a 100k day is not that hard at the cat. Thats a talll order even for places like Jackson, Whiteface, Snowbird.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> . I think the benefits of having Attitash and Wildcat on the same pass far outweigh the cons of losing a couple deals that never once convinced me to drive 2+ hours to get there.
> 
> .



and if I were someone looking for a season pass in which to spend 90% of my days at that/those mountain(s) I'd agree with you 100%.   I'd be pumped if I were an Attitash pass holder.

I think the Boyne Pass and the Peaks Pass are both awesome values.


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## billski (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> I guess unless youre a cheap bastard and are super pissed you cant ski for 9 bucks on your birthday.



Hey! I resemble that remark!


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> How about 2 for 1 days?
> How about liftopia deals?
> How about ski club deals?
> How about the 1 Friday every month for $9?
> ...



Thats what four maybe 5 fridays a season? Its still midweek. Unless your a ski bum your catchin a couple of those at best. 

Liftopia tickets in the high 30's is not going to convince me to make the trek there over other places. 

Im not in a ski club, and I do see their benefit, but I doubt your ski club doesnt have some sick deals to other great mountains. But, I highly doubt you joined a ski club just for the Wildcat discount. 

They are still deals, and Im sure some people used them, but they arent that freaking spectacular. 

I have heard little bitching from the Attitash and Mt. Snow crowds since Peak took over. I can think of little that has gone downhill. You can get all worked up and talk about vibe, or hypothetical complete about faces in overall socio-economic standing of the clientel, but the Cat is not going backwards here. 

You get more snowmaking, the same sick view, a decent lift system, and the variety of the Cat, and lose 4 Fridays a year and some 2 for 1's. 

I just dont see this as anything but an overall massive plus for Wildcat.


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> and if I were someone looking for a season pass in which to spend 90% of my days at that/those mountain(s) I'd agree with you 100%.   I'd be pumped if I were an Attitash pass holder.
> 
> I think the Boyne Pass and the Peaks Pass are both awesome values.



Fair enough. I definitely prefer a seasons pass, especially one that gives three distinct flavors like the Peaks pass does in the Mt. Washington Valley. 

But I can see how being tied to the Mt. Washington Valley would not be choice numero uno. 

Id probably still get a Cannon pass.


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## frozencorn (Nov 16, 2010)

The vertical challenge is still on. March.

And I'm a cheap fool because I enjoyed the little benny of a mountain that was part of the community enough to receive a birthday gift from them? Whatever. People championing the deal are missing the point. This was a place that mattered to people, and in turn, Wildcat showed appreciation with a number of deals and good will. Peak stepped in, and immediately, immediately, wiped much of that away. 

And a base hotel? Please. Could you imagine the number of weekend warriors who would stay there in an attempt to beat the spring crowds across the street? It would be a nightmare.


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

A couple hundred beds isnt going to stop that place from being a madhouse on any April weekend. It already is by 8 in the first place. 

If anything, I bet itd be easier to park. Another plus in my book.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> Thats what four maybe 5 fridays a season? Its still midweek. Unless your a ski bum your catchin a couple of those at best.
> 
> Liftopia tickets in the high 30's is not going to convince me to make the trek there over other places.
> 
> ...



The Attitash and Mt Snow crowds are a different set of people. I have to also say that a great snowmaking system and a better lift system has never pulled me to a place either. The other things do pull me to them and allow me to ski multiple places in a season. Terrain and deals, deals, deals are what get me to places.


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

Im sure you'll find better deals elsewhere then. 

Were talking about 3 or 4 possible deal days you guys are realistically missing out on. I doubt you make it to every cheap Friday, every Liftopia deal, etc. 

If that is going to change your whole stance on a mountain and you will no longer ski there, I would argue you werent that big a fan in the first place.


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

midd said:


> I'll take a proven operator over financier/entrepreneur-turned ski resort owner.  The latter introduces too much risk.  For every success story like Win Smith, there are plenty more failures.  and that sucks for the consumer.



Les Otten had been a proven ski area operator for two decades when he took over Attitash.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

Someone can be a big fan of a mountain and only ski there a few times a year.......

Stowe is by far my favorite mountain in the East.  Since moving away from Northern Vermont, I ski there about three times a year.  

you are grossly underestimating the number of deal days that were cut.  There were probably in excess of 50 days (ten per month) that you could ski Wildcat for under $40; sometimes well under that dollar figure.  The amount of times an individual takes advantage of those deals is irrelevant.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> Im sure you'll find better deals elsewhere then.
> 
> Were talking about 3 or 4 possible deal days you guys are realistically missing out on. I doubt you make it to every cheap Friday, every Liftopia deal, etc.
> 
> If that is going to change your whole stance on a mountain and you will no longer ski there, I would argue you werent that big a fan in the first place.



I ski about 25-40 times a year. I would make it to Wildcat 3-4 times a year for the past 10 years. Before that (before kids) I skied there probably 7-10 a year for the previous 10. So in 20 years I skied there 100-140 times. With a family of 5 the 3-4 times a year actually add up to more skier visits than me alone 7-10 times a year. Did I ski only on deal days? No. Will I now pay full price and ski there 3-4 times a year? No, maybe once. I would take my kids out of school to ski deal days. Did I ski at Attitash with full price ticket, snow making, and better lifts? No.

I am only one family but I am more than certain that there are many more like me that skied there.


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Someone can be a big fan of a mountain and only ski there a few times a year.......
> 
> Stowe is by far my favorite mountain in the East.  Since moving away from Northern Vermont, I ski there about three times a year.
> 
> you are grossly underestimating the number of deal days that were cut.  There were probably in excess of 50 days (ten per month) that you could ski Wildcat for under $40; sometimes well under that dollar figure.  The amount of times an individual takes advantage of those deals is irrelevant.



I think its completely relevant. I just think its pretty petty to get all worked up over something realistically the average ski family uses 3 times a year at absolute best. Losing a bunch of midweek ok deals and 25 dollar Sundays is not going to affect most skiers all that much. Is the cat going to lose 50% of its business on the former deal days? Doubtful. Is the product going to be substantially better, highly probable. How really could they make it worse than it is now? Its not exactly killing it. Killington sold for 85 mill. Wildcat couldnt sell for 2 mill in the same market.  Thats saying something. 

I think youre grossly overestimating the negative effect this will have on Wildcat.

If you were really chasing deals in the Mt. Washington Valley you were going to Black in the first place.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

There will be no convincing you but I would say on their 2 for 1 day it will cut business by more than 50%. Would I drive up there (with the other half of the 2 for 1) on a Wednesday to pay twice as much as last year? No. 
If they groom it as much as they groom Mt. No that is one way to make it worse if that is what you are saying.


----------



## EPB (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> I think youre grossly overestimating the negative effect this will have on Wildcat.



As much as I hate to say it, I completely agree.  I don't think that Peak Management is concerned with what a bunch of hardcores have to say about not being able to ski at their resort a few times a year for well below market value.  They will probably get away with it too.  It doesn't take a substantial increase in full priced visits to make up for the lost revenue from cutting deals like the ones mentioned on this board.  

If it does make a difference, the deals will probably be back next year.  They always have the option to restore deals, or make their own going forward.  By the way, Attitash was offering $39 days for "Spring" starting on March 1st that really blew its competition in the Valley out of the water (at least on a consistent basis).


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> If you were really chasing deals in the Mt. Washington Valley you were going to Black in the first place.



How long have you lived in the Mt. Washington Valley?


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> I think its completely relevant. I just think its pretty petty to get all worked up over something realistically the average ski family uses 3 times a year at absolute best. Losing a bunch of midweek ok deals and 25 dollar Sundays is not going to affect most skiers all that much. Is the cat going to lose 50% of its business on the former deal days? Doubtful. Is the product going to be substantially better, highly probable. How really could they make it worse than it is now? Its not exactly killing it. Killington sold for 85 mill. Wildcat couldnt sell for 2 mill in the same market.  Thats saying something.
> 
> I think youre grossly overestimating the negative effect this will have on Wildcat.
> 
> If you were really chasing deals in the Mt. Washington Valley you were going to Black in the first place.



Where the heck did I ever say these moves would have a negative effect on Wildcat as a business???  I didn't.  I said, the change of deal offerings sucks for someone like me who likes to make it there 3 times a year for a reasonable price.  There are other people in this thread that agree with me.

Save for Saddleback and possibly Burke, Wildcat was the best 2000 vert mountain in the east for deals.  Now it is not.  That's the argument and it is a fact.  I really don't see the point in you arguing that people who took advantage of that situation shouldn't be upset.  Wildcat used to be affordable for guys like me and Smellytele, now it's not.  

As for Black, when it has decent snow, yes, it's the place to go.  However, you could ski Wildcat for $5-10 more with the old deals.  On a hardpack day, that's a pretty easy decision to make.


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## Edd (Nov 16, 2010)

I wonder if this is the longest Wildcat thread ever.


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> Les Otten had been a proven ski area operator for two decades when he took over Attitash.



One could easily argue that Les Otten was much more of a real estate developer than a ski area operator when his company acquired Attitash


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2010)

Edd said:


> I wonder if this is the longest Wildcat thread ever.



I think that happened about 15 pages ago


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> If they groom it as much as they groom Mt. No that is one way to make it worse if that is what you are saying.





Peak has been VERY forthcoming with how the groom Mount Snow.  They've given trails 3 classification which determine their grooming status.

They designated certain trails (generally very popular beginner and intermediate crusiers covered by fanguns as "premium" trails which means that they see action from the groomers every night).  The designated other trails (less popular intermediate cruisers and a good chunk of the expert terrain) as "classic" which means that they might see a groomer once or twice a week.  And then they have "natural" trails, which barring a mega-thaw-freeze with little hope of mother nature getting rid of the icy post freeze gleen anytime soon, never see a groomer.  

Pretty straightforward and honest from a snowreporting standpoint.  They also actually DECREASED their trailcount at Mount Snow by calling a trail a trail, not upper trail, middle trail, lower trail to inflate the count.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 16, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> How about 2 for 1 days?
> How about liftopia deals?
> How about ski club deals?
> How about the 1 Friday every month for $9?
> ...



Exactly, I have no interest in skiing at Attitash. I just don't get a good vibe while skiing there; not to say I hate the mountain (I love biking there in the summer), but as far as skiing goes, it seems to attract a "younger" crowd and more park rats and people willing to cut you off/ski out of control. Thus is just my generalization from skiing at Attitash several times in the past couple years (friend has season's pass there and occasionally he can convince me to come/get discounts etc).

About the hotel; like I said before, if they ever got permission it would just be the first step. That is the main reason I am against it. Next would be townhouses next to the Polecat trail etc... One things leads to another. Even the average hotel is say 100 rooms (on the small side for a hotel) you need to assume at least two people per room. 200 people (at least), more on holiday periods when people bring families of four or five. I am all for hotels and my family always used to stay in them in North Conway, but I say keep them south of the WMNF for a reason.

Next thing I am concerned with is the amount of grooming. I'm all for grooming on boilerplate days, but it seems like Peaks likes grooming a bit more that I do. 

Additonally someone mentioned ski for $9 on your birthday. It was free for your birthday, just thought I should note that.

You could link up the $39 dollar next day with a $25 half price Sunday ($32/day), this was valid holidays too so there were lots of deals to be had, even by people who can only ski Vacation weeks. 

I know they sold tickets for as low as $25 (maybe less) on lifttopia too. 

*If anyone knows about this part please chime in:* I asked before if anything knew if there would be deals for college students, I have yet to see a response so as of now I am going to assume students pay full price? Like I said, I'll stick to skinning or head to Black on a powder day. :beer:

Hey for all I know, next season they may bring back the deals, they may bring back a better student season pass, and they may not be grooming much. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


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## eatskisleep (Nov 16, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Pretty straightforward and honest from a snowreporting standpoint.  They also actually DECREASED their trailcount at Mount Snow by calling a trail a trail, not upper trail, middle trail, lower trail to inflate the count.



This seems like a good situation to me. :smile:


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

If that hotel averages 70% occupancy Id be shocked. Thats a pretty solid season average for any ski hotel. 

You can doom and gloom all you want, I say check it out this season and see what you think.


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> You can doom and gloom all you want, I say check it out this season and see what you think.



If not this year, make it next season when they've had a full off season to make some enhancements to Wildcat.  I'd bet that aside from a bunch of fan guns lining SOME trails that most folks wouldn't notice much difference than before.

Bottomline as I've heard multiple Peak admins say many times, they're a SKI company, and they feel that the key to being a successful ski company is the ability to provide their customers with the best possible snow surface on any given day


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## eatskisleep (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> If that hotel averages 70% occupancy Id be shocked. Thats a pretty solid season average for any ski hotel.
> 
> You can doom and gloom all you want, I say check it out this season and see what you think.



No doubt I'll be there. Just not sure how much I'll be able to ($$)


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> If that hotel averages 70% occupancy Id be shocked. Thats a pretty solid season average for any ski hotel.
> 
> You can doom and gloom all you want, I say check it out this season and see what you think.



AdironRider, Do you work for Peak by chance?


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## AdironRider (Nov 16, 2010)

Nope. Just a NH guy.


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## Smellytele (Nov 16, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> Nope. Just a NH guy.



I am as well. Frugal Yankee


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## Newpylong (Nov 16, 2010)

Smellytele said:


> There will be no convincing you but I would say on their 2 for 1 day it will cut business by more than 50%. Would I drive up there (with the other half of the 2 for 1) on a Wednesday to pay twice as much as last year? No.
> If they groom it as much as they groom Mt. No that is one way to make it worse if that is what you are saying.



Unfair statement about "Mt. No". Given the relative "tameness" of their terrain, they leave plenty not touched by the cat.


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## ski_resort_observer (Nov 16, 2010)

First of all, It's Peaks Resort dag nabit, not Peak. If you google Peak Resorts who might end up on ASC's archived website. :lol:

I think the big loser in all this will be Attitash, hmmmmm a diferent kind of peak in the name, never noticed that before. Anyways, for many intermediate/advanced skiers/riders if they now have a choice to hit Widlcat or Attitash on the same pass, they will go to Wildcat.  It's a no-brainer, assuming there is decent skiing at Wildcat. 

Attitash will never be a major player in the New England market but IMHO Wildcat has the potential, slight as it might be, to be just that. I think Peaks has done an awesome job first with Crotched and then Mt Snow. I think Attitash was just part of deal, it was Mt Snow Peaks wanted. Your talking about a 500,000 skier visit resort. Not saying Wildcat will ever have 500,000 skier visits. JH averages about 170,000 skier visits a year, based on last 10 years and I'm sure all will agree it's a major player. I think Wildcat has some of that mystique that drives many people to a JH or Telluride. Attitash has fan guns.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 16, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> First of all, It's Peaks Resort dag nabit, not Peak. If you google Peak Resorts who might end up on ASC's archived website. :lol:
> 
> I think the big loser in all this will be Attitash, hmmmmm a diferent kind of peak in the name, never noticed that before. Anyways, for many intermediate/advanced skiers/riders if they now have a choice to hit Widlcat or Attitash on the same pass, they will go to Wildcat.  It's a no-brainer, assuming there is decent skiing at Wildcat.
> 
> Attitash will never be a major player in the New England market but IMHO Wildcat has the potential, slight as it might be, to be just that. I think Peaks has done an awesome job first with Crotched and then Mt Snow. I think Attitash was just part of deal, it was Mt Snow Peaks wanted. Your talking about a 500,000 skier visit resort. Not saying Wildcat will ever have 500,000 skier visits. JH averages about 170,000 skier visits a year, based on last 10 years and I'm sure all will agree it's a major player. I think Wildcat has some of that mystique that drives many people to a JH or Telluride. Attitash has fan guns.



JH/Telluride are resorts with all the bells and whistles, Wildcat will never have any bells or whistles, minus a lift, lodge or snowmaking upgrades.


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## riverc0il (Nov 16, 2010)

Wow, how did I forget about Black!


KD7000 said:


> Black Mountain is fun, but isn't nearly big enough to satisfy those who would have otherwise spent the day at Wildcat.


I have chosen Black over Wildcat before. Sometimes, Black is more satisfying than Wildcat.


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## eatskisleep (Nov 16, 2010)

I second that... especially the day after a powder day...


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## riverc0il (Nov 16, 2010)

frozencorn said:


> And a base hotel? Please. Could you imagine the number of weekend warriors who would stay there in an attempt to beat the spring crowds across the street? It would be a nightmare.


Are you serious? Hello Joe Dodge Lodge and Hermit Lake. And how much of a time advantage would someone staying at the Wildcat Hotel (  ) have compared to folks staying just up the road in Gorham? What you are really saying is that if Wildcat built a hotel, the folks in Gorham would have to wake up 15 minutes earlier.

:smash:

Besides, no one skis East Side any more. That is SO 2009.


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## riverc0il (Nov 16, 2010)

All this whining about deals at Wildcat makes me want to argue somemore about installing a new double chair. :lol:



Credit where credit is due: threecy called this one out (or was he calling out Waterville) when he suggested that the Mittersill expansion would soon be old news!


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

I thought he was referring to the sale of Waterville with those comments.

Maybe he was referring to both.

Actually it might make sense for Peaks to invest in an Upper Mountain Double for Wildcat.  That could stretch their portfolio's season and compete with Boyne for the longest season on one pass.


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## riverc0il (Nov 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> I thought he was referring to the sale of Waterville with those comments.
> 
> Maybe he was referring to both.
> 
> Actually it might make sense for Peaks to invest in an Upper Mountain Double for Wildcat.  That could stretch their portfolio's season and compete with Boyne for the longest season on one pass.


I meant "or was he calling out Waterville" in my comment above, I fixed it. And I was referring the the Mittersill double, in other words, this thread is going in that direction. My bad on lack of clarity on that post!


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> First of all, It's Peaks Resort dag nabit, not Peak. If you google Peak Resorts who might end up on ASC's archived website. :lol:



I think you have it backwards...Peak Resorts is in business today.  ASC had peaks.com


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## threecy (Nov 16, 2010)

deadheadskier said:


> Maybe he was referring to both.



I knew about both before they were announced, but I think the Sununus may turn more heads with Waterville than Peak/(EPT?) with Wildcat in the next year or so.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 16, 2010)

Well, considering all the restrictions Wildcat has on development, that wouldn't surprise me much.

Waterville really needs to go big to get back on the radar.


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## Puck it (Nov 16, 2010)

threecy said:


> I knew about both before they were announced, but I think the Sununus may turn more heads with Waterville than Peak/(EPT?) with Wildcat in the next year or so.



Boy,  do you contradict yourself!!!!  Go cut some more trees why don't you?


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## drjeff (Nov 16, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> First of all, It's Peaks Resort dag nabit, not Peak. If you google Peak Resorts who might end up on ASC's archived website. :lol:
> 
> I think the big loser in all this will be Attitash, hmmmmm a diferent kind of peak in the name, never noticed that before. Anyways, for many intermediate/advanced skiers/riders if they now have a choice to hit Widlcat or Attitash on the same pass, they will go to Wildcat.  It's a no-brainer, assuming there is decent skiing at Wildcat.
> 
> Attitash will never be a major player in the New England market but IMHO Wildcat has the potential, slight as it might be, to be just that. I think Peaks has done an awesome job first with Crotched and then Mt Snow. I think Attitash was just part of deal, it was Mt Snow Peaks wanted. Your talking about a 500,000 skier visit resort. Not saying Wildcat will ever have 500,000 skier visits. JH averages about 170,000 skier visits a year, based on last 10 years and I'm sure all will agree it's a major player. I think Wildcat has some of that mystique that drives many people to a JH or Telluride. Attitash has fan guns.





threecy said:


> I think you have it backwards...Peak Resorts is in business today.  ASC had peaks.com



SRO, I hate to break it to you, but it *IS* PEAK Resorts, not PEAKS Resorts

http://www.peakresorts.com/

And also with respect to my home mountain in VT, it's proper name is MOUNT Snow, not Mt. Snow ( I was corrected on this myself by one of their former marketing directors, since the Mount Snow resort isn't located on Mt. Snow, but actually on Mt. Pisgah.  It's name comes from the owner of the farm, Reuben Snow, from whom Walt  Schoenknecht bought the property from back in 1953


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## ski_resort_observer (Nov 16, 2010)

Perfectly willing to eat crow on getting the Peak/Peaks thing backwards but regarding the Mt Snow/Mount Snow thing I think there is already a Mt Pisgah overlooking Lake Willoughby, a way cooler looking mountain than Mount Snow's Mt Pisgah so Peak should change the name of their mountain to Mt Snow, problem solved. :lol: Plus I'll never make the mistake of praising Peak/Mount Slow ever again. oops :lol:


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

drjeff said:


> ( I was corrected on this myself by one of their former marketing directors, since the Mount Snow resort isn't located on Mt. Snow, but actually on Mt. Pisgah.  It's name comes from the owner of the farm, Reuben Snow, from whom Walt  Schoenknecht bought the property from back in 1953



The ski area was originally located on Mt. Pisgah, but the USGS name of the mountain was changed awhile back to Mount Snow and shows as such now.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Boy,  do you contradict yourself!!!!  Go cut some more trees why don't you?



Huh?


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> Huh?


 
You know what I mean.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> You know what I mean.



I don't, but okay...


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## Anklebiter (Nov 17, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Was going to say that Black Mountain looks to benefit from the merger and the axing of the discounts.  Black is the go-to place now for those looking for deals now.



I'll be skiing Black instead of Wildcat this February.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> I don't, but okay...



Think, rocket21


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## Anklebiter (Nov 17, 2010)

billski said:


> The Attitash vibe at the show was _really bad._
> In essence, they see no need to discount.
> 
> I also noticed that Crotched, Attitash and Wildcat are not participating in the  skiNH January learn to ski program.
> ...



Two years ago we stayed at Attitash and skied two days. This year even though we are staying their again. I don't think we will be skiing their, because of the lack of deals. We'll go to the other resorts that offer 2fers during midweek. We'll probably ski Black before we Wildcat this year.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Think, rocket21



What does that have to do with "Go cut some more trees why don't you?"


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## billski (Nov 17, 2010)

Anklebiter said:


> Two years ago we stayed at Attitash and skied two days. This year even though we are staying their again. I don't think we will be skiing their, because of the lack of deals. We'll go to the other resorts that offer 2fers during midweek. We'll probably ski Black before we Wildcat this year.



The CHAD card might be right up your alley:  http://www.rideandskine.com/Mountain_Discounts.html


----------



## ski_resort_observer (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> The ski area was originally located on Mt. Pisgah, but the USGS name of the mountain was changed awhile back to Mount Snow and shows as such now.



Your right....just checked my Gazetteer and the ski resort Mount Snow is on the mountain Mt Snow. Passing some crow to Dr Jeff to enjoy. :lol:


----------



## Anklebiter (Nov 17, 2010)

billski said:


> The CHAD card might be right up your alley:  http://www.rideandskine.com/Mountain_Discounts.html



Yeah, I'll be taking advantage of some of these deals (Black & Canmore). My son wants to ski Cranmore and ride their mountain coaster. I'll also be looking at Cannon and Bretton Wood 2fers. We are also going to ski Magic on our way back to Delaware (I heard somewhere on the web, that Magic is cool place and worth trying ;-)).


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## drjeff (Nov 17, 2010)

ski_resort_observer said:


> Your right....just checked my Gazetteer and the ski resort Mount Snow is on the mountain Mt Snow. Passing some crow to Dr Jeff to enjoy. :lol:



Glad to take it when it's due


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> What does that have to do with "Go cut some more trees why don't you?"


 

You know.


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## Black Phantom (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> You know.



Is the "trees" reference something about Wilmington?


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> You know.



No, I don't, nor do I know how whatever it is pertains to Wildcat.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

Black Phantom said:


> Is the "trees" reference something about Wilmington?


 

Nope, something a little birdy told.  He knows what it is about.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> No, I don't, nor do I know how whatever it is pertains to Wildcat.


 
It does not pertain to Wildcat. Just to your credibility, Rocket21


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Nope, something a little birdy told.  He knows what it is about.





Puck it said:


> It does not pertain to Wildcat. Just to your credibility, Rocket21



If you wish to commit libel, why don't you just type what you're hinting at, as I'm quite curious as to what you mean by "Go cut some more trees why don't you"


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## Smellytele (Nov 17, 2010)

The boys are at it again.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> If you wish to commit libel, why don't you just type what you're hinting at, as I'm quite curious as to what you mean by "Go cut some more trees why don't you"


 
That is why I am asking you to spill it, trying to confirm what the little birdy told me.

or

*The lady doth protest too much, methinks*


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> That is why I am asking you to spill it, trying to confirm what the little birdy told me.



Brilliant logic...I don't know what you're talking about when you say "Go cut some more trees why don't you," yet you want me to "spill" what you're talking about.  I don't even own a chainsaw.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> Brilliant logic...I don't know what you're talking about when you say "Go cut some more trees why don't you," yet you want me to "spill" what you're talking about. I don't even own a chainsaw.


 
Think hard. You would not want to use a chainsaw.

Keywords are tree cutting


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Think hard. You would not want to use a chainsaw.
> 
> Keywords are tree cutting



No clue.  Tell your little birdies I say hi.


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## Breeze (Nov 17, 2010)

OFCS  take the pissing  contest  private.

Breeze


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> No clue. Tell your little birdies I say hi.


 

Come on tell us your side of the story.  I really want to hear your side.


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## riverc0il (Nov 17, 2010)

This thread is getting kinda antagonistic.... sounds like stuff better off discussed via PM?


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> This thread is getting kinda antagonistic.... sounds like stuff better off discussed via PM?



No. This is something that leads to his credibility in anything he discusses.  There are a couple of posters here that now what I am talking about btw.


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## riverc0il (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> No. This is something that leads to his credibility in anything he discusses.  There are a couple of posters here that now what I am talking about btw.


Credibility? Are you accusing him of lying about something? Or disingenuous posting? Or fronting and posturing for the sake of personal gain? Threecy has worked in the ski industry and is an immense source of insider knowledge. I frequently disagree with him but always respect his position, reasoning, and understanding. I am dumb founded that any one would question his credibility. 

I hope I am not the next AZ'er to eat crow due to that remark :lol: But calling someone out for lack of credibility is pretty harsh... especially when not providing proof regarding what is the source of the issue.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> No. This is something that leads to his credibility in anything he discusses.  There are a couple of posters here that now what I am talking about btw.



It's one thing to make a personal attack...it's another thing to make a false personal attack...and it's another thing to make a false personal attack without providing any information.

I said:



> I knew about both before they were announced, but I think the Sununus may turn more heads with Waterville than Peak/(EPT?) with Wildcat in the next year or so.



You said:


> Boy, do you contradict yourself!!!! Go cut some more trees why don't you?



I don't know what trees you're accusing me of cutting, or how that pertains to having a heads up on the sale of two ski areas this fall, or on my thinking that Waterville may turn more heads in 2011-2012 than Wildcat.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

What I heard was second hand.  And if true would put anything he said as not credible.  Do you know him personally? If not, this is the Internet and it is fulll of posers.  I am trying to get to truth.  That is it.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> It's one thing to make a personal attack...it's another thing to make a false personal attack...and it's another thing to make a false personal attack without providing any information.
> 
> I said:
> 
> ...


 
If true then your credibility on any forum that you post on would be gone.  Right, rocket21.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> If true then your credibility on any forum that you post on would be gone.  Right, rocket21.



If what's true?  I don't know what trees you're accusing me of cutting, how tree cutting has anything to do with credibility, how this has anything to do with skiing, or how that has anything to do with Wildcat ("It does not pertain to Wildcat").


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> If what's true? I don't know what trees you're accusing me of cutting, how tree cutting has anything to do with credibility, how this has anything to do with skiing, or how that has anything to do with Wildcat ("It does not pertain to Wildcat").


 

Yes. It has nothing to do with Wildcat. I have just gotten tired of your arrogance and pompous attitude. The info that I am privy to would blow your credibility in any post post that you have made in past, now and the future.

So cough it, junior!!!! Trying to get the truth out. Were you involved?

BTW,  pompous and arrogant people like you, really PO me.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Yes. It has nothing to do with Wildcat. I have just gotten tired of your arrogance and pompous attitude. The info that I am privy to would blow your credibility in any post post that you have made in past, now and the future.
> 
> So cough it, junior!!!! Trying to get the truth out. Were you involved?
> 
> BTW,  pompous and arrogant people like you, really PO me.



Are these middle school style accusations going to continue or are you going to make a point?  Clearly I don't know what this big revelation is or how it pertains to this thread, but I think it's pretty low to continue to make blank statements that question my character.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2010)

threecy said:


> Are these middle school style accusations going to continue or are you going to make a point? Clearly I don't know what this big revelation is or how it pertains to this thread, but I think it's pretty low to continue to make blank statements that question my character.


 

Not all. I have just grown tired of your pompous attitude and arrogance. I have sitting on some unsolicited information and just would like to know if it is true. If it is true then you should never post on any forum regarding hiking, sking or outdoor activity and go crawl under a rock somewhere. If not then I will eat crow, but I want know if it is true.

Btw over 10K views on this thread now.  The soap opera continues.


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## threecy (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> I have sitting on some unsolicited information and just would like to know if it is true.  If it is true then you should never post on any forum regarding hiking, sking or outdoor activity and go crawl under a rock somewhere.  If not then I will eat crow, but I want know if it is true.



Clearly if you thought this information was accurate and from a reliable source, you would have posted it by now.  I would imagine that I'm not the only person curious to see what kind of charges you're making, since you seem to think this is some sort of big revelation.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 17, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Not all. I have just grown tired of your pompous attitude and arrogance. I have sitting on some unsolicited information and just would like to know if it is true. If it is true then you should never post on any forum regarding hiking, sking or outdoor activity and go crawl under a rock somewhere. If not then I will eat crow, but I want know if it is true.
> 
> Btw over 10K views on this thread now.  The soap opera continues.



Can you just cough up whatever info you have?  I mean were talking skiing/riding here, it's not like were dealing with top secret covert military locations here, if we are, then make like Geraldo and spill it.  Until then you're on double secret probation!

Threecy, I think you should be scared, very scared!:wink:


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## EPB (Nov 17, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Threecy, I think you should be scared, very scared!:wink:



I dont know.... From the sounds of it he's licking his chops at the prospect of suing Puck It, throwing out terms like libel.

I must say, I'm very curious about what these two clowns are spatting about.  I can only think of one public instance of cutting ski lines and people getting arrested, although that could be completely unrelated to this double secret discussion.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 17, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> I dont know.... From the sounds of it he's licking his chops at the prospect of suing Puck It, throwing out terms like libel.
> 
> I must say, I'm very curious about what these two clowns are spatting about.  I can only think of one public instance of cutting ski lines and people getting arrested, although that could be completely unrelated to this double secret discussion.



Oh god Threecy, you weren't cutting trees at Jay were you?  HAHA.  EPB, I think Puck It said it actually had nothing to do with him cutting trees....actually even though one might think this would have to do with Wildcat, ie the thread is about Wildcat, but of course that would make sense, as Puck It stated his beef has nothing to do with Wildcat....

Can you get sued for libel on a message board where nobody knows who either person actually is?


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## EPB (Nov 17, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Can you get sued for libel on a message board where nobody knows who either person actually is?



It's possible to track who was sending messages through their IP address.  It might be difficult to prove that party A actually knows who party B is with any certainty, although I really wouldn't know for sure. I just would find it hard to believe that Threecy would fund a lawsuit to bring Puck It down, but who knows.  You've already established that all reason has been thrown by the wayside.  Lets just grab some popcorn, and watch the bout on the sidelines.


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## neil (Nov 17, 2010)

This is the lamest thing I've seen in a while. If you want to talk shit about someone at least say it. This is high school level.


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## snoseek (Nov 17, 2010)

You guys are douching the Wildcat thread. Go skiing or something.

Does anyone remeber the old days when they had the triple at the top third? Or even older days with the double on the top half. I love the quad but still loved those lifts in the spring.


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## EPB (Nov 17, 2010)

snoseek said:


> You guys are douching the Wildcat thread. Go skiing or something.
> 
> Does anyone remeber the old days when they had the triple at the top third? Or even older days with the double on the top half. I love the quad but still loved those lifts in the spring.



I'm too young for the double, but I did get on the upper mountain triple a few times.  It was a great lift and made a lot of sense when the gondola was the only other way to get to the summit.  I would love to see a midstation on the high speed quad where that base station once was.  Another fixed grip lift running up the old gondi line would be my second preference.  It would be great to see an upper mountain option up there.  It could open up the opportunity to have the earliest and latest skiing in the East if Peak wanted.


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## snoseek (Nov 17, 2010)

^^ They could really be a late late season competitor. They are close enough to enough people that it would work i think. Peak could wind up being a good thing for Wildcat. We will see.


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## threecy (Nov 18, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> I must say, I'm very curious about what these two clowns are spatting about.  I can only think of one public instance of cutting ski lines and people getting arrested, although that could be completely unrelated to this double secret discussion.





UVSHTSTRM said:


> Oh god Threecy, you weren't cutting trees at Jay were you?  HAHA.  EPB, I think Puck It said it actually had nothing to do with him cutting trees....actually even though one might think this would have to do with Wildcat, ie the thread is about Wildcat, but of course that would make sense, as Puck It stated his beef has nothing to do with Wildcat....



This is why making blank, false personal attacks is so low - now I'm being connected with things I've never done.  Puck it clearly is hinting "information" that none of us (including me) have, yet he won't post it.  Why haven't the Mods shot down this attempt at a public lynching a long time ago?



eastern powder baby said:


> From the sounds of it he's licking his chops at the prospect of suing Puck It, throwing out terms like libel.


I mentioned libel early on because of his false defamatory writings.  It wouldn't be libel if what he was saying was true.



eastern powder baby said:


> I'm too young for the double, but I did get on the upper mountain triple a few times.  It was a great lift and made a lot of sense when the gondola was the only other way to get to the summit.  I would love to see a midstation on the high speed quad where that base station once was.  Another fixed grip lift running up the old gondi line would be my second preference.  It would be great to see an upper mountain option up there.  It could open up the opportunity to have the earliest and latest skiing in the East if Peak wanted.



I don't think a mid station on the detach would be deterimental, both functionally and cost wise...it's a much more involved modification than putting a mid station on a fixed grip.

One could upload and download on that detach for upper mountain skiing, or using the CTEC triple for uploading and downloading, in conjunction with an upper mountain lift.

I suspect the only way this upper mountain lift will be installed in the near future is if financing for it is included in the likely REIT portion of the sale transaction.  Otherwise, I don't think Peak would see it as an immediate priority...they've been in New England for half a decade and have yet to install a new chairlift at any of their areas (aside from initially building Crotched).


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## thetrailboss (Nov 18, 2010)

threecy said:


> This is why making blank, false personal attacks is so low - now I'm being connected with things I've never done. Puck it clearly is hinting "information" that none of us (including me) have, yet he won't post it. Why haven't the Mods shot down this attempt at a public lynching a long time ago?


 
Actually I have intervened once before and I am going to again.  Let's focus on the topic at hand and not get too personal.  People have different opinions and that is fine but let's avoid the ad hominem attacks please.


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## Newpylong (Nov 18, 2010)

eastern powder baby said:


> I dont know.... From the sounds of it he's licking his chops at the prospect of suing Puck It, throwing out terms like libel.
> 
> I must say, I'm very curious about what these two clowns are spatting about.  I can only think of one public instance of cutting ski lines and people getting arrested, although that could be completely unrelated to this double secret discussion.




It would be very difficult to sue for libel and claim that without a doubt these statements were damaging to someone's livelihood/career. lol

I did not ski Wildcat when the upper triple/double were there. What trail/where did they used to run?


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Actually I have intervened once before and I am going to again. Let's focus on the topic at hand and not get too personal. People have different opinions and that is fine but let's avoid the ad hominem attacks please.


 

Just fed with his pompous posts and internetarrogance.  He obviously won't come clean.  I will continue the dectective work on the info and verify.  I am done for now.

Any libel claim is unfounded since, I have made no claims of the information.


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## threecy (Nov 18, 2010)

Newpylong said:


> I did not ski Wildcat when the upper triple/double were there. What trail/where did they used to run?



The upper mountain chair followed the same line as the Quad does today (the gondola was on the next trail to skiers left).  The summit patrol shack is the old top terminal.


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## Black Phantom (Nov 18, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Just fed with his pompous posts and internetarrogance.  He obviously won't come clean.  I will continue the dectective work on the info and verify.  I am done for now.
> 
> Any libel claim is unfounded since, I have made no claims of the information.



I get it now. Are you upset that trees were cut in Wilmington? You are real close to Somerville,,, :-o


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

Black Phantom said:


> I get it now. Are you upset that trees were cut in Wilmington? You are real close to Somerville,,, :-o


 
Come on there has never been trees in Somerville.  Actually Wilmington has a lot trees, so not even close to being Somerville.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 18, 2010)

And as to this argument I see about threecy being somehow tied to the 2007 Big Jay incident, I'd suggest that it stop.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> And as to this argument I see about threecy being somehow tied to the 2007 Big Jay incident, I'd suggest that it stop.


 
It has nothing to do with that incident.  I never said it was. It may be similar though.


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## o3jeff (Nov 18, 2010)

Can someone PM me what the big secret is.

I've skied Wildcat once and look forward to going back.


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## threecy (Nov 18, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Boy,  do you contradict yourself!!!!  Go cut some more trees why don't you?





Puck it said:


> It does not pertain to Wildcat. Just to your credibility, Rocket21



http://forums.alpinezone.com/announcement.php?f=15



> *Posting Guidelines*
> * Flaming: Posting of any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable local, state, federal or international laws is not allowed. Flaming may lead to being immediately and permanently banned. The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. The administrator and moderators of this forum reserve the right to delete, edit, move, or lock any topic at any time should they see fit.
> * Trolling: Any message deemed a "troll" post made only to instigate debate or conflict will be permanently deleted. Chronic offenders of this policy will be warned one time. If the behavior continues, the member may be banned.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

threecy said:


> http://forums.alpinezone.com/announcement.php?f=15


Ouch!!:flag:  People in glass houses shouldn't!!!!!


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## tjf67 (Nov 18, 2010)

This is getting interesting:lol:


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## Edd (Nov 18, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> This is getting interesting:lol:



Only in the sense that it's a buzzkill / downer.  Another vote to take this private.


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## tjf67 (Nov 18, 2010)

Edd said:


> Only in the sense that it's a buzzkill / downer.  Another vote to take this private.



-1


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

Edd said:


> Only in the sense that it's a buzzkill / downer. Another vote to take this private.


 

Back to your regular programming now. 

I skied Wildcat starting in the early 90's when the summit chair was there.  I used to religious avoid the gondola.  I had an issue with the riding in it with another person since it was so cramped.  It was prior to my second knee surgery and the brace that I was wearing at the time would not allow me to bend the knee fully.  It was very uncomfortable riding it even alone. It was not that bad riding the two lifts to the summit.


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## Edd (Nov 18, 2010)

Puck it said:


> Back to your regular programming now.
> 
> I skied Wildcat starting in the early 90's when the summit chair was there.  I used to religious avoid the gondola.  I had an issue with the riding in it with another person since it was so cramped.  It was prior to my second knee surgery and the brace that I was wearing at the time would not allow me to bend the knee fully.  It was very uncomfortable riding it even alone. It was not that bad riding the two lifts to the summit.



I started skiing there after the gondi was gone.  Was it less vulnerable to winds than the HSQ?


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## billski (Nov 18, 2010)

Edd said:


> Only in the sense that it's a buzzkill / downer.  Another vote to take this private.



+1   one-to-one combat goes private.


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## drjeff (Nov 18, 2010)

billski said:


> +1   one-to-one combat goes private.



Or else,  I would think a ski off would be in order  :lol:


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

drjeff said:


> Or else, I would think a ski off would be in order  :lol:


I would accept it.


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## tjf67 (Nov 18, 2010)

Puck it said:


> I would accept it.




You two should have a ski off.  You can go down through that swath of trees that he cut.  :flame:


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## thetrailboss (Nov 18, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> You two should have a ski off. You can go down through that swath of trees that he cut. :flame:


 
ENOUGH.  Drop it on the tree thing.  Back to Wildcat please.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 18, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> ENOUGH.  Drop it on the tree thing.  Back to Wildcat please.



Sheesh, It's just tongue and cheek....don't think anybody really thinks Threecy wasted his time cutting trees (more like a mini clearcut, quite sad) at Big Jay.


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## UVSHTSTRM (Nov 18, 2010)

I think my first trip to Wildcat will be this year, pretty sad that I never made it up there during my 4 years at PSC.  Driven by it plenty of times.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 18, 2010)

UVSHTSTRM said:


> Sheesh, It's just tongue and cheek....don't think anybody really thinks Threecy wasted his time cutting trees (more like a mini clearcut, quite sad) at Big Jay.


 
Well, FWIW I have received numerous complaints.  So some may think it is tongue and cheek others don't.


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## Riverskier (Nov 18, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, FWIW I have received numerous complaints.  So some may think it is tongue and cheek others don't.



For real? Some people take this stuff WAY too seriously.


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## Smellytele (Nov 18, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, FWIW I have received numerous complaints.  So some may think it is tongue and cheek others don't.



What would anyone but threecy complain about besides it being childish? And then why complain to you? 

Anyway I love wildcat!


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## Breeze (Nov 18, 2010)

Threecy  has the same avatar  here on AZ as rocket21 displays  on  Snowjournal.  Big whoop.  Same  person?  Long  reach.  Enough. 

Quitthebitchin. 

Breeze


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## billski (Nov 18, 2010)

ahem.  anyone on this thread notice the resorts are blowin snow?  
What's the Wildcat plan?


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## campgottagopee (Nov 18, 2010)

tjf67 said:


> You two should have a ski off.  You can go down through that swath of trees that he cut.  :flame:



I wanna go if it's a good line.


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## tjf67 (Nov 18, 2010)

thetrailboss said:


> Well, FWIW I have received numerous complaints.  So some may think it is tongue and cheek others don't.



Complainers are lame.  Why don't they just pout out in the open.


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## Puck it (Nov 18, 2010)

billski said:


> ahem.  anyone on this thread notice the resorts are blowin snow?
> What's the Wildcat plan?



They are!  Where?  I lost track of time. Gotta go skiing now.  Out.


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## AdironRider (Nov 19, 2010)

And people thought I was antagonistic.


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## Puck it (Nov 19, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> And people thought I was antagonistic.


 

I never thought of you that way.:wink:


----------



## Smellytele (Nov 19, 2010)

AdironRider said:


> And people thought I was antagonistic.



There can be more than one antagonistic person so don't sell your self short...


----------



## Gnarcissaro (Nov 19, 2010)

Riverskier said:


> For real? Some people take this stuff WAY too seriously.



YA THINK?!?!? :-o

Resorts blowin' snow, woke up to a heavy snow shower here in Campton, NH.

STOKE IS HIGH!


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## eatskisleep (Nov 19, 2010)

> It's white, encouraging, and we're looking for more. At this time, Wildcat Mountain is planning an early December opening date and if all goes well with weather & conditions, it may be as early as Saturday, December 4th. Stay tuned & pray for snow!



Well no Thanksgiving opening this year... Maybe next season!


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## billski (Dec 4, 2010)

Opening date delayed to December 11th.  They are taking a small bashing over on their Facebook page today....


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## Breeze (Dec 4, 2010)

Its  always open season on Wildcat.  One of the questions I was asked  in an interview <elsewhere>  was point  blank  " are you OK with being  yelled at and  called out  by disgruntled customers?"   

After  six seasons in Guest Services at  Wildcat??    I thought the question was  the most hilarious thing I'd been asked  in freaking forever.  Once I  stopped laughing, I hope I addressed it  appropriately, but   sheesh, my interviewer did admit he's been  in Bethel since 1989 and NEVER skiied Wildcat.


Breeze


----------

