# Pemi Loop Ideas



## Greg (Aug 16, 2001)

Planning some sort of Pemi loop for the end of September. I'm looking for suggestions (trails/camp locations, etc.) based on the following criteria:
Trip will be three nights (probably arrive in the Whites around noon - would like to leave on Day 4 by 1 or 2 PM)
Looking to backpack 7-10 miles a day
Would like to return directly to the car after third night (loop hike)
I'm also open to Adirondack suggestions based on the above criteria as well, as well as any base camp suggestions. Keep in mind there's about 13 hours of usable daylight that time of year (prefer to set up/breakdown camp with daylight). Ideas?


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## Mike P. (Aug 17, 2001)

For three nights in ADK's  Possibilities of loops involving Great Range & Big Slide from Garden (parking tough to get on a Saturday AM - in on Thursday or Friday better)

A lot of choices from ADK Loj using trails to Marcy, Colden, Algoquin and Indian Pass (Pretty Popular)

A less crowded choice might be from Elk Lake, hitting Dix, going thru AMR land (no camping there) & eithe going back via Colvin Range or the higher part of Great Range & Panther Gorge.  With a full pack better to ascend Haystack from Panther per the book then descend.  If after checking maps, ascending/descending Haystack is inviting, I would ask feasibility of that over on VFTT.  IMO, they have more people on ADK's than other sites we visit.

Standard Pemi Loop could be done in three nights, Liberty, Garfield & Guyot Shelters.  but crowded.  If seclusion (in whites? but better chance)  look at other section of Pemi around Shoal Pond, Thoreau, Hancock Notch, Carrigain Pond & back trails around Mt. Tremont.  If you don't see people on AMC's HJ asking, likely general public is not there in large numbers either.  

Other option in Whites with promise of less people is Evans Notch area.

Having some problems logging in BTW but I'll re-visit later.

Hope this helps Greg.

Mike P.


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## hikergrrl (Aug 17, 2001)

Greg,

Mike's suggestions for ADK hikes are great. Limitless possibilities out of ADK Loj/Marcy Dam area, or Garden/John Brooks Lodge area.

2 things- 

1) if you cross over to the east side of the Great Range, you end up on the Ausable Club's land - you can hike through no problem, but camping there is out of the question. So bear that in mind if you end up around Gothics, Wolf Jaws, Colvin, Blake, NippleTop. I think State land begins about 1 mile on either side of Lake Road.

2) if you run into parking problems at the Garden in Keene Valley, you can park at Marcy Airfield - the shuttle bus costs ~$4 return and runs ~30 min - more often on weekends when things get busy. 

3) Algonquin, Skylights, and Avalanche Pass are some of my favorite spots.

4)Marcy Dam and Lake Colden are very popular, apt to be crowded, and thus notorious for bear activity. Be warned!

I was at Indian Pass a few weeks ago - worthwhile on a nice day - you can lounge at Summit Rock and spot the climbers on Wallface Cliff (as well as hear them yelling back and forth "what next??") Indian Pass would be quite miserable when wet though. Lots of spots in the trail at the north entrance of the pass have stream-bed potential!


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## Greg (Sep 8, 2001)

Looks like it's going to be the Pemi. Here's the loop I'm proposing:

Day 1:
Park at Lincoln Woods (~1000').Take the Wilderness Trail to Osseo Trail (1300') - 1.4 miles 
Osseo Trail to Flume Slide Trail/Franconia Ridge Trail (4220') - 4.1 miles 
Franconia Ridge Trail to Liberty Spring Trail (4260') - 1.5 miles 
Liberty Spring Trail to Liberty Spring Tentsite (fee) 0.3 miles
Total Day 1 mileage: 7.3 miles

Day 2:
Liberty Spring Trail to Franconia Ridge Trail - 0.3 miles 
Franconia Ridge Trail to Lafayette (5260') - 3.5 miles 
Garfield Ridge Trail from Lafayette to Garfield Ridge Campsite (fee) Spur Path - 3.9 miles
Total Day 2 mileage: 7.7 miles

Day 3:
Garfield Ridge Campsite to Galehead Hut (3780') - 2.7 miles 
Twinway to Bondcliff Trail (4580') - 2.8 miles 
Bondcliff Trail to either: Guyot Campsite (fee) Spur (4260') - 0.6 miles, OR to the lower part of Bondcliff Trail (backcountry camp near Black Brook) - 5.0-5.5 miles
Total Day 3 mileage: 6.1 OR 10.5-11 miles

Day 4:
Day 3 camp to Wilderness Trail 1.4-1.9 OR 6.3 miles 
Wilderness Trail to Lincoln Woods - 4.7 miles
Total Day 4 mileage: 6.1-6.6 OR 11 miles

I don't think we'll have a problem getting a site at the Liberty Spring Tentsites on a Friday night, but Garfield Ridge may be iffy on a Saturday. Any thoughts on whether getting a site there towards the end of this month on a Saturday will be tricky? Perhaps we can backcountry camp off of the Twin Brook Trail, but that would add another ~3 miles to an already long and rugged Day 2.

We normally backcountry camp and have had little experience at desgnated tentsites. How do the fees work at these tentsites? Do we pay the caretaker? Do we pay at Lincoln Woods? How much is the fee? Also, we need to be aware of available water in these areas, since it's been so dry. Anyone know whether the standard water sources at the tentsites are still flowing?

Thanks in advance! I'm open to any other thoughts or suggestions so please share them. Thanks!


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## Hike'n Mike (Sep 9, 2001)

Sounds ambitious but fun, would love to join you!  Lot of vertical gain in that itinerary Greg so lighten up that pack as much as possible.  Like you, I usually woods camp on my own but I have used tent platforms (but never shelters) at Guyot, Liberty Spring, Valley Way, and Ethan Pond.  Sometimes it's just easier.  I stayed at Guyot a few years ago and just paid the caretaker there.  I also did the same at Liberty Spring.  At other times the caretaker wasn't around so I got to stay at a tent platform for free.  This happened to me a couple of weeks ago at Ethan Pond Campsite too.  I went up to the caretaker's tent and checked in with the two people occupying it, telling them I just set up on platform #1.  They informed me they were not the caretakers but would gladly accept my 6 bucks if I had cash :smile:.  Not sure about the water situation, especially on those ridges.  You should be OK at Liberty Spring but from there to Garfield could be dry.  Good Luck and have a great trip!  

_________________
*The Prayer Of The Tired Walker*
If you pick 'em up, O Lord, I'll put 'em down...ANON.  (_taken from The Complete Walker III_)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hike'n Mike on 2001-09-09 19:01 ]</font>


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## SherpaKroto (Sep 10, 2001)

Greg, I've done part of this, but not all. On day 2, you could also bail at Garfield Pond. I've heard that this portion of Garfield Ridge is a tough section with lots of ups and downs. DEFINITELY stay at Guyot and spend time in the Bonds, catching a sunset or sunrise at West Bond. There are a few sites on Twinway, but the climb up South Twin is a killer, so I wouldn't even consider them. A beautiful area. Good Luck - SherpaKroto


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