# Killington Opens October 29, 2011



## dangah (Oct 28, 2011)

Killington opens tomorrow!

http://www.facebook.com/notes/killington-resort/killington-opens-tomorrow/10150349317231905

Chris Danforth
Marketing Manager
Killington Resort


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## bvibert (Oct 28, 2011)

Awesome!


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 28, 2011)

:beer:

This is great!  The local economy needs this I am sure.  Keep an eye on Sunday River don't let them slip in with a 9 AM opening!


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## dangah (Oct 28, 2011)

jimmywilson69 said:


> :beer:
> 
> This is great!  The local economy needs this I am sure.  Keep an eye on Sunday River don't let them slip in with a 9 AM opening!



We accept that Sunday River or anyone else may decide to go earlier. The bragging rights of "First in the East " are nice but we wanted to get out with the message as soon as possible so folks can make plans to get on up here and play.

Cheers.

-Chris


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## Glenn (Oct 28, 2011)

It's pretty cool to see an east coast area opening in October.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 28, 2011)

Watch some other area "open" today from 2pm - 4pm upon the Killington announcement. lol


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## TheBEast (Oct 28, 2011)

BenedictGomez said:


> Watch some other area "open" today from 2pm - 4pm upon the Killington announcement. lol



Now that would be funny.....


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## andrec10 (Oct 28, 2011)

TheBEast said:


> Now that would be funny.....



The term "OPEN" should be used loosely!


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## TheBEast (Oct 28, 2011)

andrec10 said:


> The term "OPEN" should be used loosely!



I'm sure people are missing the fine print in the release that says "one trail UNGROOMED"......with a mix of man-made and natural and the hords of people who probably shouldn't be there, should make for an interesting side-show.


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## Vortex (Oct 28, 2011)

SR most often does a soft opening.   Be it killington, Mt Snow or Woodbury, I do not remember a year where they did not do a soft opening.   I think it great K will open. I think its Great Mt snow is going to open.  I plan on driving up to the River tonight and see what happens.

If they open today late, this is nothing new.  Read the Sr board people have been picking the day and time for months on opening.  I had yesterday at 2pm.


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## Nick (Oct 28, 2011)

Awesome, congrats Chris, that's very cool! Gonna be an amazing winter!


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## wa-loaf (Oct 28, 2011)

SR just announced a 10:01 am on Saturday opening. So looks like Killington gets the medal this year.


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## snowmonster (Oct 28, 2011)

Let the ski season begin!


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## Black Phantom (Oct 28, 2011)

dangah said:


> We accept that Sunday River or anyone else may decide to go earlier. The bragging rights of "First in the East " are nice but we wanted to get out with the message as soon as possible so folks can make plans to get on up here and play.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> -Chris



Right on! This is great news.


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## powhunter (Oct 28, 2011)

Great news!!

Steveo


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## jerryg (Oct 28, 2011)

andrec10 said:


> The term "OPEN" should be used loosely!



Explain? Open a lift for people to ski or ride. Charge for this service. Open. What's wrong with that? Are you worried that Woodbury will do it? I didn't think so. 

The amount of terrain will be the same at both K and SR tomorrow. That cannot be debated.


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## Newpylong (Oct 28, 2011)

walking up the peak walkway and interestingly DOWN as well. Weird...


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## WJenness (Oct 28, 2011)

Newpylong said:


> walking up the peak walkway and interestingly DOWN as well. Weird...



I wouldn't be surprised if you got off the K-1 to find Great Northern open as well...

I have a feeling that announcement was a bit of an insurance policy...

We'll see though.

-w


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## skiadikt (Oct 28, 2011)

WJenness said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if you got off the K-1 to find Great Northern open as well...
> 
> I have a feeling that announcement was a bit of an insurance policy...
> 
> ...



agree or that gn will open later or least for sunday.


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## sp1ffy (Oct 28, 2011)

Does anyone have any experience with what the crowds are like for Killington's opening day?


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## riverc0il (Oct 28, 2011)

BEASTLY!!! Welcome back! :beer:


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## mlkrgr (Oct 28, 2011)

sp1ffy said:


> Does anyone have any experience with what the crowds are like for Killington's opening day?



Well, you never know what may happen for sure in terms of crowds, but its been reported that opening day the demand typically exceeds the supply of open terrain, so I would expect to have a fairly sizable lift line.


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## dangah (Oct 29, 2011)

Good News! Thanks to Mother Nature and the tireless work of our snowmakers, starting tomorrow, we will be open daily from 9:00 a.m to 4:00 p.m. That's right, we plan on staying open all week long (conditions permitting of course).

We currently have 3 trails (about 1 mile of terrain) open and hope that we can get some additional terrain open with a little love from Mother Nature.

Chris Danforth
Marketing Manager
Killington Resort


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## skiersleft (Oct 29, 2011)

sp1ffy said:


> Does anyone have any experience with what the crowds are like for Killington's opening day?



Was there from 10:30 to 12:30. Crowds were surprisingly manageable. Never waited in line for more than 5 mins. Rime was crowded, but manageable. They opened Reason while I was there. Park rats were stoked that they at least had some features to hit. Spreads the crowd somewhat. Not bad at all really. I believe it was getting more crowded when I left. I expect bigger crowds tomorrow after tonight's dump.


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## riverc0il (Oct 29, 2011)

dangah said:


> We currently have 3 trails (about 1 mile of terrain) open and hope that we can get some additional terrain open with a little love from Mother Nature.


Any chance you could expand on that without making any commitments? If the only option tomorrow is the glades triple, I'm hiking for pow locally. If there is a good chance Canyons and Snowdon get fully opened, I'd probably make the trip to K.


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## skiersleft (Oct 29, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Any chance you could expand on that without making any commitments? If the only option tomorrow is the glades triple, I'm hiking for pow locally. If there is a good chance Canyons and Snowdon get fully opened, I'd probably make the trip to K.



I can't speak for the resort, but judging from last year, any expansion would be limited to the Glades area. Today they were blowing snow on East Fall and Ridge Run. I assume that's where they would expand to next. So my guess (99.9% sure) is no Snowdon and definitely no Canyon.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 29, 2011)

That was a massive effort to get 3 trails open today, especially since they only turned on the guns Thurs. 

I read they had over 50 guns going at the same time. 

Kudos to Killington...


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## riverc0il (Oct 29, 2011)

skiersleft said:


> I can't speak for the resort, but judging from last year, any expansion would be limited to the Glades area. Today they were blowing snow on East Fall and Ridge Run. I assume that's where they would expand to next. So my guess (99.9% sure) is no Snowdon and definitely no Canyon.


I'm talking natural terrain/snow. With the base that is there from the previous storm, another half foot or more would make any black diamond ski fine without worry of base damage and double blacks such as Canyon would be doable for those not concerned with a few scratches. Having "skied" Cascade on Friday, I got some scratches but no core shots. Certainly another half foot to a foot could easily open all non-glade trails up... at least "could" in my eyes. The resort's eyes.... well, that is why I asked.


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## steamboat1 (Oct 29, 2011)

skiersleft said:


> Today they were blowing snow on East Fall and Ridge Run. I assume that's where they would expand to next.


I guess they won't be needing that walkway much longer...


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## skiersleft (Oct 29, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> I'm talking natural terrain/snow. With the base that is there from the previous storm, another half foot or more would make any black diamond ski fine without worry of base damage and double blacks such as Canyon would be doable for those not concerned with a few scratches. Having "skied" Cascade on Friday, I got some scratches but no core shots. Certainly another half foot to a foot could easily open all non-glade trails up... at least "could" in my eyes. The resort's eyes.... well, that is why I asked.



I hear you. I was trying to answer through the resort's eyes. Pretty sure they will stick to the Glades, as I don't see them opening more lifts or terrain on natural at this time.  But, hey...who knows!


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## RENO (Oct 30, 2011)

dangah said:


> Good News! Thanks to Mother Nature and the tireless work of our snowmakers, starting tomorrow, we will be open daily from 9:00 a.m to 4:00 p.m. That's right, we plan on staying open all week long (conditions permitting of course).
> 
> We currently have 3 trails (about 1 mile of terrain) open and hope that we can get some additional terrain open with a little love from Mother Nature.
> 
> ...



Awesome! :beer:


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## steamboat1 (Oct 30, 2011)

Nice shot from this morning on K's website. Powder day in Oct...:beer:


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## riverc0il (Oct 30, 2011)

steamboat1 said:


> Nice shot from this morning on K's website. Powder day in Oct...:beer:


Was Cascade opened today?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm guessing that's just Great Northern.


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## oakapple (Oct 30, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Was Cascade opened today?



No. The open trails today were Upper Great Northern, Rime, Reason, Upper Double Dipper, Upper East Fall, and Low Traverse.


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## Smellytele (Oct 30, 2011)

So who opened first? Woodbury at 9? I saw SR wasn't opening until 10:01 but people were on the lift earlier than that per zand trip report. At the latest 9:40. Killington opened at 10. 
Not that I care, just glad people are out there hittin' it and having fun..


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## Ski the Moguls (Oct 30, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> So who opened first? Woodbury at 9? I saw SR wasn't opening until 10:01 but people were on the lift earlier than that per zand trip report. At the latest 9:40. Killington opened at 10.
> Not that I care, just glad people are out there hittin' it and having fun..


Based on Zand's report, I do not think SR should get credit for anything before 12:30pm. Did Woodbury really open? All I saw was a photo of mostly grass.

Killington wins.


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## jerryg (Oct 30, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> Based on Zand's report, I do not think SR should get credit for anything before 12:30pm. Did Woodbury really open? All I saw was a photo of mostly grass.
> 
> Killington wins.



Agree: Killington wins. They officially opened at 10:00 and SR officially opened at 10:01. 

Disagree: SR should not get credit for anything before 12:30. How does this make any sense. Many of use had taken several runs long before 12:30. The fact that the snow guns were on and the bottom of T2 was very sticky, does not mean the mountain wasn't open. It was surely open. Many of us were there.


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## Zand (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't understand the whole "wins" thing and why people are so obsessed about it. Sometimes its obvious when one resort opens one or more days before another. Other times like yesterday, two resorts open right around the same time. They both win. I don't care if one opened 10 minutes before the other. Both opened around the same time, both get the added news coverage, etc, of being open first. Woodbury doesn't count, and Mt. Snow shouldn't either. I doubt if you ask Mt. Snow at the end of the year what day they opened, they'll say Oct 29th... they'll use whatever day they open Canyon in November. Killington and Sunday River were the only ones to open "for real", they both win. 

And what could the reasoning possibly be for SR not being considered open till 12:30? Every mountain has plenty of days when they run snowguns while their open. I've been to 2 Killington opening days and they had the guns running on open runs on both. Skiing under the guns is an unfortunate necessity of early season skiing. It sucks, and yes Sunday River left them on way too long, but that's no reason to not consider them "open".

Bottom line, for all intents and purposes, they both opened at 10, they both "win", both fanbases are happy (maybe slightly more at Killington), Killington should be commended for finally returning to their old time roots, especially in a year when their area really needs the economic boost, and Sunday River should be commended for continuing their recent trend of opening ASAP, as well as giving the "nod" to Killington to take the honors for opening day.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 30, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> Based on Zand's report, I do not think SR should get credit for anything before 12:30pm.



Why do you say that?  Killington opened at 10, SR at 10:01.  SR respected Killington probably in part because of Irene.


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## WWF-VT (Oct 30, 2011)

riverc0il said:


> Was Cascade opened today?



If it wasn't officially "open" there were plenty of tracks down Cascade as well as a lot of the other trails in the Canyon area


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## steamboat1 (Oct 30, 2011)

What was it 3 years ago when K opened OL on natural snow only in early Dec.?

No guns.

Let's hope all of NE has that much natural by then.


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## Ski the Moguls (Oct 30, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Why do you say that?  Killington opened at 10, SR at 10:01.  SR respected Killington probably in part because of Irene.



In this day and age people should not be FORCED to ski under the guns. Sure, having them blowing on a trail is okay as long as there are other trails we can ski on. SR was obviously not ready to open if they felt the need to squirt water at all of their customers. I am sorry if this offends, it is just my opinion.


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## Tin Woodsman (Oct 30, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> In this day and age people should not be FORCED to ski under the guns. Sure, having them blowing on a trail is okay as long as there are other trails we can ski on. SR was obviously not ready to open if they felt the need to squirt water at all of their customers. I am sorry if this offends, it is just my opinion.



If you have a problem with it, then you have no business patronizing ski resorts in the super early season.  Probably should refrain from commenting on it as well - that's like saying you don't get why people should have to deal with getting sand in their stuff at the beach.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 30, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> In this day and age people should not be FORCED to ski under the guns. Sure, having them blowing on a trail is okay as long as there are other trails we can ski on. SR was obviously not ready to open if they felt the need to squirt water at all of their customers. I am sorry if this offends, it is just my opinion.



Most resorts now at least run their HKD's while folks ski underneath them. Hell, a lot of places run their ground guns and open the trail for skiing if there is room.  It was not like SR had people skiing on grass.


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## Zand (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> In this day and age people should not be FORCED to ski under the guns. Sure, having them blowing on a trail is okay as long as there are other trails we can ski on. SR was obviously not ready to open if they felt the need to squirt water at all of their customers. I am sorry if this offends, it is just my opinion.



No one was forced to ski under the guns. Hell, no one is forced to ski at all, especially on Oct 29th. It's a necessary evil to have guns running at any chance in the early season. And it's not like they didn't have enough snow to open without blowing the guns because they did, but to be open in October you need to blow at every chance you get. 

In Killington's case, while they weren't blowing on Rime (which btw, is about 1,500 feet higher than T2, making it easier to build a quick base on), they were blowing on Great Northern and East Fall while they were open (in GN's case, a trail you must ski to get to North Ridge). And a couple years ago when they used to have to open top to bottom, I had to ski through guns on a 35 degree day (same exact weather as SR Saturday) from the GN/Mouse Run intersection all the way down to the base of the K1. Did it suck? Yes. Did I complain? Kinda, but not to the point where I said they shouldn't have opened, because I want to ski as early as possible, and in order to do that, I need to ski through the guns so they can keep the run covered.

If you don't think they should be open, either don't go or go on a 50 degree day when you know they won't be blowing snow.


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## jerryg (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> In this day and age people should not be FORCED to ski under the guns. Sure, having them blowing on a trail is okay as long as there are other trails we can ski on. SR was obviously not ready to open if they felt the need to squirt water at all of their customers. I am sorry if this offends, it is just my opinion.



I highly doubt anyone is offended, it's just that you don't appear to understand how resorts operate when the temperature and humidity are borderline.

I skied 8:15 -10:30 on Saturday and while it was definitely below freezing for most of that time, it was fairly humid. This is a great time to make snow in the early season because the snow that is being made (Yes, it was snow) is wet and sticky. On the lower parts of the trail, it's hard to ski, but you can never have to much base. When I started skiing on Saturday, coverage on the trail was complete and deep, but when you know you're going to have a lot of people, you need to continue to build that base so it's possible to groom it out without multiple feet of snow. 

SR was likely ready to open Friday afternoon, FWIW, but they wanted to give the nod to K. If K had said they were going to open at 2:00 on Friday, I am willing to bet that SR would have gone with 2:01.

While I was skiing Saturday, the guns on T2 were not blowing water, but sometimes, these guns effectively do blow water that freezes upon contact with the base on the trail or in the final feet before hitting the trail. It all depends on what the mountain wants to blow out. They were blowing wet snow and that's all part of early skiing. 

If you don't want to deal with skiing under the guns or maybe getting a little wet, check the weather a couple months from now and look for a bluebird day. Make sure the temps aren't too cold. October and November are not know for fair weather and neither are the conditions. You'll get there though!


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## Vortex (Oct 31, 2011)

Sr wasn't ready to open.... What did you see while skiing to feel that.  Coverage was fine, but yea one trail and guns blazing its freeking October.  Come back in January.  The price you willingly pay in October.  You have to make snow at every chance and they wanted a wet base to hold the snow coming.  I admit I was covered in ice from he guns.  Ow year two days in  October for me.  One had a bit of powder.;-)


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## jerryg (Oct 31, 2011)

Bob R said:


> Sr wasn't ready to open.... What did you see while skiing to feel that.



I think thew bottom line is that he/she wasn't there and can't answer your question. :beer:


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## Vortex (Oct 31, 2011)

Congtats to K for the early opening and recovering from the floods and damage. Well done.


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## Vortex (Oct 31, 2011)

jerryg said:


> I think thew bottom line is that he/she wasn't there and can't answer your question. :beer:



I will debate with a source on the hill. Did not realize.  Only comments are great job by those who made the effort to open., We all win.


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## jerryg (Oct 31, 2011)

Bob R said:


> Congtats to K for the early opening and recovering from the floods and damage. Well done.



+1

The mere fact that they opened in October after everything that area has been through is a testament to the dedication of the crew at the mountain. Fabulous indeed!


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## Black Phantom (Oct 31, 2011)

I made turns in sunshine.


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## Highway Star (Oct 31, 2011)

For as long as I can remember, Killington has preferred to shut off the snowmaking on Rime for early season weekend skiing.....


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## drjeff (Oct 31, 2011)

Highway Star said:


> For as long as I can remember, Killington has preferred to shut off the snowmaking on Rime for early season weekend skiing.....



Or in other words, K will open when they're actually ready to open, not still a "work in progress"

Guns on, guns off,  who cares!!  It's all about sliding downhill in October and that's great!!


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## thetrailboss (Oct 31, 2011)

drjeff said:


> Or in other words, K will open when they're actually ready to open, not still a "work in progress"
> 
> Guns on, guns off,  who cares!!  It's all about sliding downhill in October and that's great!!



That's not my experience with K!  I recall skiing through the alley of death with snowguns, bumps, JONG's, and rocks to get back to the Gondola.


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## Ski the Moguls (Oct 31, 2011)

To all those SR lovers who were obviously very offended by my post . . . what has been written here since has done nothing but continue to convince me that K was in much better shape for the opening than SR. In fact, I bet you convinced a lot of others of the same thing along the way!

Look, bottom line is that K tries its best to open for the season. SR tries to open first (though thanks for the 10:01 - that was cool) just to say they did, then shuts down for days or weeks at a time until they can really open. You Boyne folks think you have a long season, but K all by itself was open more days last year than SR and SL combined.

There is so much K bashing on this forum - you really need to be more honest at times when K does it better than the rest.


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## MadPatSki (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> There is so much K bashing on this forum - you really need to be more honest at times when K does it better than the rest.



Kudos to K to having opened after letting down so many people over the years. I'll have to give that to them, but you might have to understand where the bad blood comes from. For some many years since the 'good old days', K lived on its reputation. Saying one thing in brochure and in the media, but not living up to them in their actions.

For everyone from my generation; October to June was the norm. You could hike and remove skis 4 times in one run to make it to the bottom of Superstar (or Upper Downdraft in the early 80s). Boyne (SR and Loaf) has pushed K (which is a good thing) to wake up and realized that they were no longer the 'place' for long seasons. K has a build up it reputation and Saturday opening is the first step.


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## WJenness (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> To all those SR lovers who were obviously very offended by my post . . . what has been written here since has done nothing but continue to convince me that K was in much better shape for the opening than SR. In fact, I bet you convinced a lot of others of the same thing along the way!
> 
> Look, bottom line is that K tries its best to open for the season. SR tries to open first (though thanks for the 10:01 - that was cool) just to say they did, then shuts down for days or weeks at a time until they can really open. You Boyne folks think you have a long season, but K all by itself was open more days last year than SR and SL combined.
> 
> There is so much K bashing on this forum - you really need to be more honest at times when K does it better than the rest.



No one said K wasn't in better shape...

They OBVIOUSLY are... They have 10 trails open right now... And by the reports I saw on KZone about yesterday, people were poaching and making full K-1 laps. That is AWESOME. I am very happy for everyone who got to experience that.

However, that doesn't mean what SR did 'doesn't count'... They opened... They sold tickets, people bought them, people skied...

You know who won?

All of us who live in the east and want to ski.

Happy ski season.

Get out there and enjoy it...

No matter which mountain you're on, or what's strapped to your feet, we're all after the same thing here.

As I've mentioned before... as someone with a 9-5 in the flatlands... I really don't care who is open during the week in October/November... It has zero impact on my skiing... I ski weekends and occasional mid-winter week days. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

If it matters to you, then so be it...

-w


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## deadheadskier (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> then shuts down for days or weeks at a time until they can really open. .



So, do mountains who operate weekends only in the springtime do so because they can't operate 7 days a week?


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## dangah (Oct 31, 2011)

WJenness said:


> ...
> 
> You know who won?
> 
> All of us who live in the east and want to ski.



Agreed!


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## Black Phantom (Oct 31, 2011)

deadheadskier said:


> So, do mountains who operate weekends only in the springtime do so because they can't operate 7 days a week?


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## thetrailboss (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> To all those SR lovers who were obviously very offended by my post . . . what has been written here since has done nothing but continue to convince me that K was in much better shape for the opening than SR. In fact, I bet you convinced a lot of others of the same thing along the way!
> 
> Look, bottom line is that K tries its best to open for the season. SR tries to open first (though thanks for the 10:01 - that was cool) just to say they did, then shuts down for days or weeks at a time until they can really open. You Boyne folks think you have a long season, but K all by itself was open more days last year than SR and SL combined.
> 
> There is so much K bashing on this forum - you really need to be more honest at times when K does it better than the rest.



Wow, STM that is an interesting response and with all due respect you kind of show that you are new here and to the world of ski chat rooms and don't know the recent history of what went down with Killington or what happens this time of year.  I also think that it is hard to be critical of Sunday River if you weren't there or don't know their MO.   Either that or you are upset that you did not ski yourself.   And the comment about Killington being open longer than SR and SL combined is wrong.  Sugarloaf and Jay Peak were the last ones standing last season, and IIRC Jay Peak actually went one more weekend than Sugarloaf.  At one time Killington would be open until June.  That is no more and has not happened in about 12 years or so.   

Yes, Killington has gotten a lot of criticism, but that has been for years.  If you think that the criticism here is harsh, then I invite you to compare it to Killingtonzone.com, where the criticism by folks who live and ski there everyday makes this place look tame.   I've only seen praise for Killington the last week or so.  

The only other comment about your POV is that to come in here and act like that, when folks are really jonesin' to ski, is akin "to shouting fire in a crowded theater" because everyone gets worked up when it is not necessary.  I've seen it before....

But to the point, yes, Killington historically has an advantage thanks to its elevation and location of opening earlier.  It was originally conceived to have a longer season and once had the ability to download skiers more easily.  After SKI got out of the business, ASC replaced the Killington Double, and its midstation, with the K-1 Gondola and after that early season skiing at Killington got more difficult.  In fact it was abandoned by ASC and POWDR in the later years.  It was only last season that POWDR decided to attempt to reintroduce it by building the staircase so that folks could ski Glades/North Ridge and download via the Gondola.  Killington used to be first to open, last to close, in sum that is not the case anymore.  

As to Sunday River, not to sound blunt, but saying that 'forcing folks to ski under snowguns was wrong' is a naive comment.  That is pretty much the norm for most areas right through until Christmas Week or even MLK Weekend.  Of course if one skis on the holiday periods they might not have to endure this nor even though that this is what happens.  Sunday River had folks skiing on Friday afternoon.  It is lower than Killington, but Sunday River has long done what it could to open early.  When you consider that they had less natural snow, less elevation, and warmer temperatures, the fact that they got going is impressive.  And they have a history of being first to open over the past several years.  Yes there was less terrain, but it is more than almost everywhere else (including Central Park in NYC where you are  ).  Sunday River opened and their passholders and fans were happy.  Why rain on their parade and nitpick if you weren't there?  It was better than the skiing I did this weekend (which was none).

It is also typical for places, in early season and late season, to close midweek because there is no business.  That has nothing to do with the conditions. Hell, most places close because they lose skiers before they lose snow.  Midweek closures this time of year is plain smart actually.  I don't take that away from Sunday River one bit.   

And as someone else said, everyone was a winner this weekend.


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## jerryg (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> To all those SR lovers who were obviously very offended by my post . . . what has been written here since has done nothing but continue to convince me that K was in much better shape for the opening than SR. In fact, I bet you convinced a lot of others of the same thing along the way!



I highly doubt anyone was offended. You post was just inaccurate and off base. Many of us love and and appreciate their efforts. We were skiing and were skiing early, so no offese can possibly have been taken, at least on my part. 



Ski the Moguls said:


> Look, bottom line is that K tries its best to open for the season. SR tries to open first (though thanks for the 10:01 - that was cool) just to say they did, then shuts down for days or weeks at a time until they can really open.



Yep. K stays open and they can probably make some money doing it. I was t SR this morning and based on the cover and temps, they could easily stat open, too, but the difference is that they would bleed money and their business model is not to waste money in late October/early November for mid-week skiing/riding. There are not the skiers and riders to support the cost of running the lift. They spend a lot to get open and it pays off. Check out NECN news from Saturday or other news outlets.  



Ski the Moguls said:


> You Boyne folks think you have a long season, but K all by itself was open more days last year than SR and SL combined.



This is just flat-out stupid. How many cocktails have you had today? 

K used to stay open very late and it was awesome. Many of us enjoyed it. Powdr doesn't follow that model and many loyal K skiers (Clearly not you, though) think it sucks.


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## Ski the Moguls (Oct 31, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> Wow, STM that is an interesting response and with all due respect you kind of show that you are new here and to the world of ski chat rooms and don't know the recent history of what went down with Killington or what happens this time of year.  I also think that it is hard to be critical of Sunday River if you weren't there or don't know their MO.   Either that or you are upset that you did not ski yourself.   And the comment about Killington being open longer than SR and SL combined is wrong.  Sugarloaf and Jay Peak were the last ones standing last season, and IIRC Jay Peak actually went one more weekend than Sugarloaf.  At one time Killington would be open until June.  That is no more and has not happened in about 12 years or so.
> 
> Yes, Killington has gotten a lot of criticism, but that has been for years.  If you think that the criticism here is harsh, then I invite you to compare it to Killingtonzone.com, where the criticism by folks who live and ski there everyday makes this place look tame.   I've only seen praise for Killington the last week or so.
> 
> ...


Wow, so many personal attacks in one post! And by a moderator, no less. Nice.

I have been skiing most of the areas in the Northeast for decades, not just years, including the areas in question. I know the history. But history was never the issue. I read the trip reports and it seemed clear to me that this year K opened with a quality product, while SR rushed to open with something substantially less than that. Flame away folks, but that will not change the fact that one place had groomers and the other offered soup.

Are you mad at me because you disagree? Or are you mad because I pointed out the difference? I though Internet forums were for sharing opinions - no?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 31, 2011)

Who cares Ski the Moguls?

People were at Sunday River having fun.  This isn't a richard measuring contest.


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## MadPatSki (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> I read the trip reports and it seemed clear to me that this year K opened with a quality product, while SR rushed to open with something substantially less than that. Flame away folks, but that will not change the fact that one place had groomers and the other offered soup.



SR opened the earliest they could, period. The conditions found Saturday were the same as the first full official day on October 15, 2009 - The last time I skied SR.
http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2009/10/17/sunday-river-me-–-october-15-09/

If K would have been giving the same hand as SR this week (temps, elevation, no nature snow etc), I strongly doubt they would have opened at all. I guess it comes to the 'quality of the product' in which K used in the past to remain closed. Ask any skiers out there this weekend (regardless of the ski area), they were just happy to be skiing in October regardless of the conditions.

PS. I belong to either camp, I just called them the way I see them.


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## Black Phantom (Oct 31, 2011)

K was $39. That made it better.  And more fun.


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## jerryg (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> I though Internet forums were for sharing opinions - no?



Like your opinion that K is open more than SR and SL combined? That would essentially mean they are open almost all year. Damn, that is awesome! 

No one is mad, (At least not me) you're just being silly.

FWIW, I skied corduroy yesterday and this morning at SR. Peace.

That being said, I have no doubt that K's current product is far-superior to SR's. At their elevation and with some of the snow they received before the weekend, I would hope so.

K's a great mountain. No one is flaming or pointing fingers aside from you.


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## WWF-VT (Oct 31, 2011)

Black Phantom said:


> K was $39. That made it better.  And more fun.



With all the 2-for-1 deals for early season skiing at K you should be ashamed of yourself if you paid $39.  

$19.50 made it better.  And more fun.


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## Ski the Moguls (Oct 31, 2011)

jerryg said:


> Like your opinion that K is open more than SR and SL combined? That would essentially mean they are open almost all year. Damn, that is awesome!
> 
> No one is mad, (At least not me) you're just being silly.
> 
> ...


Goodness, I did not mean you should add together all the days SR was open plus all the days SL was open. I meant count each day either (or both) SR and SL were open last season - i.e. treat them as one large resort. Once you remove all the days both were closed you will see that K's continuous season had more days. Yes, most of the difference is mid-week vs. weekend, and a weekend only skier would say Boyne was open more. But strictly by day count, K had more. That is what I meant.


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## Black Phantom (Oct 31, 2011)

WWF-VT said:


> With all the 2-for-1 deals for early season skiing at K you should be ashamed of yourself if you paid $39.
> 
> $19.50 made it better.  And more fun.



Were you up with billski? :beer::razz:

I have a season pass to this Institution. Not too worried about the deals for yesterday or next week for that matter. The more they charge the more that generates cash flow for the business. They sure need it at this point.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> Wow, so many personal attacks in one post! And by a moderator, no less. Nice.
> 
> I have been skiing most of the areas in the Northeast for decades, not just years, including the areas in question. I know the history. But history was never the issue. I read the trip reports and it seemed clear to me that this year K opened with a quality product, while SR rushed to open with something substantially less than that. Flame away folks, but that will not change the fact that one place had groomers and the other offered soup.
> 
> Are you mad at me because you disagree? Or are you mad because I pointed out the difference? I though Internet forums were for sharing opinions - no?



If correcting you on the facts is a personal attack than I guess I am guilty.  As to personal attack, no.  Just a reaction to someone trying to  IMHO.


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## jerryg (Oct 31, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> Goodness, I did not mean you should add together all the days SR was open plus all the days SL was open. I meant count each day either (or both) SR and SL were open last season - i.e. treat them as one large resort. Once you remove all the days both were closed you will see that K's continuous season had more days. Yes, most of the difference is mid-week vs. weekend, and a weekend only skier would say Boyne was open more. But strictly by day count, K had more. That is what I meant.



I think you're right about that. SL won't open till mid-November and that is usually when SR goes daily. If you add in that SL typically stays open a week +/- longer than K, then K would be open about 5 more days. 

I wish they still had the Superstar Glacier, or heck, just stayed open and I'd gladly be up there.


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## Ski the Moguls (Oct 31, 2011)

jerryg said:


> I think you're right about that. SL won't open till mid-November and that is usually when SR goes daily. If you add in that SL typically stays open a week +/- longer than K, then K would be open about 5 more days.
> 
> I wish they still had the Superstar Glacier, or heck, just stayed open and I'd gladly be up there.



Thanks for that. Beating back the flames and feeling the love! I never meant to start a fight. 

Seriously, though . . . I have spent quite a few days at all 3 areas, and I like them all. K is closer to home so I ski there most often. And I most certainly agree with you about the end of season. Biggest mistake K made last year was closing Bear and Needles down early. I do wish they would put the same effort into the end of the season that they put into the start. Maybe this year?


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## Zand (Oct 31, 2011)

After skiing both over the past 3 days, it pretty much confirms what has been said already.

Killington is currently in much better shape. And while SR does "rush" to open, they kind of have to compared to Killington. 2,000 feet in elevation difference will do that to you.


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## MadPadraic (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm pretty darn happy that SR put out the inferior product. Yesterday was a blast.


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## Highway Star (Nov 1, 2011)

thetrailboss said:


> That's not my experience with K! I recall skiing through the alley of death with snowguns, bumps, JONG's, and rocks to get back to the Gondola.


 
There has been the rare occasion in the last decade where Killington opened top to bottom with snowguns on the lower part of Great Northern.  Like once or twice out of ten years.  Usually it is too warm to even make snow down there by the time they open.  But even if they were blowing snow on GN, they don't make snow on Rime when they were open.


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## thetrailboss (Nov 1, 2011)

Highway Star said:


> There has been the rare occasion in the last decade where Killington opened top to bottom with snowguns on the lower part of Great Northern.  Like once or twice out of ten years.  Usually it is too warm to even make snow down there by the time they open.  But even if they were blowing snow on GN, they don't make snow on Rime when they were open.



Well then must be I have the bad luck of hitting it both times......


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## Black Phantom (Nov 1, 2011)

Highway Star said:


> There has been the rare occasion in the last decade where Killington opened top to bottom with snowguns on the lower part of Great Northern.  Like once or twice out of ten years.  Usually it is too warm to even make snow down there by the time they open.  But even if they were blowing snow on GN, they don't make snow on Rime when they were open.



This is the truth.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 1, 2011)

I've been skiing Killington for decades. Anyone who says they turn off the snow guns on open slopes while people are skiing is nuts. They regularly leave the guns going 24/7 on open slopes for days when they are building base. Nothing wrong with that.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 1, 2011)

steamboat1 said:


> I've been skiing Killington for decades. Anyone who says they turn off the snow guns on open slopes while people are skiing is nuts. They regularly leave the guns going 24/7 on open slopes for days when they are building base. Nothing wrong with that.



been my experience as well.

last year I recall skiing Lower East Fall and being a glazed donut on skis


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## Ski the Moguls (Nov 1, 2011)

steamboat1 said:


> I've been skiing Killington for decades. Anyone who says they turn off the snow guns on open slopes while people are skiing is nuts. They regularly leave the guns going 24/7 on open slopes for days when they are building base. Nothing wrong with that.


We are saying they do not leave the guns blazing on ALL open slopes while people are skiing. You can choose to ski under the guns, but you generally do not have to. And you certainly did not have to on Saturday.

I know people are just glad that SR opened at all. I get it. I wish I had not made my earlier post. I think I will wait until early next October, when the SR vs. K crowd is really going at it, and then remind people of the different opening experiences that the two mountains provided.


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## Black Phantom (Nov 1, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> We are saying they do not leave the guns blazing on ALL open slopes while people are skiing. You can choose to ski under the guns, but you generally do not have to. And you certainly did not have to on Saturday.
> 
> I know people are just glad that SR opened at all. I get it. I wish I had not made my earlier post. I think I will wait until early next October, when the SR vs. K crowd is really going at it, and then remind people of the different opening experiences that the two mountains provided.



You are a passionate skier. That's good news. K does not leave the guns on in the early season when there is limited terrain. Basic fact.  Rime must be close to 3 feet deep. 

Stick around. We need folks that have a passion to ski. See you next weekend. My little buddy jerseyjoey is slaying it right now.:grin::flag:


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## steamboat1 (Nov 1, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> We are saying they do not leave the guns blazing on ALL open slopes while people are skiing. You can choose to ski under the guns, but you generally do not have to. And you certainly did not have to on Saturday.



I wasn't there so I can't confirm from my own experience but from what I've read you had to ski through the snow guns on upper GN to get to NR on Sat. Unless of course you preferred to walk down using the boardwalk.


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## Rogman (Nov 1, 2011)

So is Sunday RIver the new Sugarbush? Illegal to bash them, even if they deserve it? Open season on Killington of course, however will persist for the foreseeable future. :roll: Actually, if you want to see SR getting bashed, go over to their own board:
http://community.sundayriver.com/forum/topics/halloween-conditions-a-reflection-a-complaint

Seriously, tempest in a teapot. Kudo's to both resorts for getting open, and getting people on the slopes. If one did a better job than another, does it really matter? Killington has an altitude advantage, Sunday River a latitude advantage. This year, it broke Killington's way, next year might be different.

POWDR still is not opening Killington as early as they can; they are opening as early as they can _with a quality product_. They are still closing earlier than they should; I'm hoping the new Roaring Brook deck will change their perception of the economics of spring skiing, and they'll stay open later in the spring. Even so, Killington still has the longest season in the east. And no, you can't get more skier days with a Boyne pass, no matter how bad you are at math. :lol:


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## sp1ffy (Nov 1, 2011)

I was there on Sunday around the time when they 'opened' some of the more thinly covered trails.  It was tons of fun despite the lift lines.

There was actually decent thin coverage all the way to the base, although I banged up my bases a bit on one of the lower diamonds.


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## MonkeyBrook (Nov 1, 2011)

Zand said:


> After skiing both over the past 3 days, it pretty much confirms what has been said already.
> 
> Killington is currently in much better shape. And while SR does "rush" to open, they kind of have to compared to Killington. 2,000 feet in elevation difference will do that to you.



2000 feet in elevation difference, check your facts Zand...you are way off...that is unless Killington is 5K in elevation.


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## Zand (Nov 1, 2011)

MonkeyBrook said:


> 2000 feet in elevation difference, check your facts Zand...you are way off...that is unless Killington is 5K in elevation.



From what I've read Locke Mountain is 2,600' at its peak. Killington Peak is at 4,200'. 1,600' difference and rounded up. Makes me 400' off, a lot closer than K having to be 5K.


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## MonkeyBrook (Nov 1, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> To all those SR lovers who were obviously very offended by my post . . . what has been written here since has done nothing but continue to convince me that K was in much better shape for the opening than SR. In fact, I bet you convinced a lot of others of the same thing along the way!
> 
> Look, bottom line is that K tries its best to open for the season. SR tries to open first (though thanks for the 10:01 - that was cool) just to say they did, then shuts down for days or weeks at a time until they can really open. You Boyne folks think you have a long season, but K all by itself was open more days last year than SR and SL combined.
> 
> There is so much K bashing on this forum - you really need to be more honest at times when K does it better than the rest.



10:01??  I dont think so, I was on the lift 8:15 Saturday am and know that there were exactly 4 people ahead of me & Wheeler....two of the four ahead of me are regular posters on the board.....I really couldnt care less who was skiing first, second or third...I was just happy SR was open for turns this weekend.  And personally, I like skiing with the guns on.....different strokes for different folks....nonsense to try to compare SR and Killington....


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## MonkeyBrook (Nov 1, 2011)

Zand said:


> From what I've read Locke Mountain is 2,600' at its peak. Killington Peak is at 4,200'. 1,600' difference and rounded up. Makes me 400' off, a lot closer than K having to be 5K.



First, if you are rounding up 400 ft....OK.....forgive me but I thought you were speaking about SR vs K in general.  Jordan is over 3100, K Peak is 4200....so 1100 if the #....if you were comparing early season skiing...still not 2K, but 1500-1600....all good.  I like K, need to get back there this year...used to ski there a ton in my earlier days....


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## Rogman (Nov 1, 2011)

MonkeyBrook said:


> First, if you are rounding up 400 ft....OK.....forgive me but I thought you were speaking about SR vs K in general.  Jordan is over 3100, K Peak is 4200....so 1100 if the #....if you were comparing early season skiing...still not 2K, but 1500-1600....all good.  I like K, need to get back there this year...used to ski there a ton in my earlier days....


What matters for opening is the _lowest_ elevation where you have to blow snow. For Killington, the base of the North Ridge Triple is about 3400', For the mid-station of the Locke Mountain Triple, I'd guess it's somewhere around 1600', but I'm really not sure, but that would make the difference 1800 feet. However, Sunday River's latitude is about 60 miles further north.


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## steamboat1 (Nov 1, 2011)

Now if they could only get Zanadu open at Giants Stadium in NJ. they'd be skiing year round at sea level & this bickering about who opened first in the east, latitude, altitude & elevation arguments would be meaningless.


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## Smellytele (Nov 1, 2011)

Blah blah blah.


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## Ski the Moguls (Nov 1, 2011)

Smellytele said:


> Blah blah blah.


Hey Smellytele, you started it all. Baiting me with that question of yours.


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## Smellytele (Nov 1, 2011)

Ski the Moguls said:


> Hey Smellytele, you started it all. Baiting me with that question of yours.



So soon I forget. I guess I do that sometime - Throw the meat in the room and let the lions fight. I guess I got bored with my own game.


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## mondeo (Nov 1, 2011)

Rogman said:


> What matters for opening is the _lowest_ elevation where you have to blow snow. For Killington, the base of the North Ridge Triple is about 3400', For the mid-station of the Locke Mountain Triple, I'd guess it's somewhere around 1600', but I'm really not sure, but that would make the difference 1800 feet. However, Sunday River's latitude is about 60 miles further north.


What matters is the average temp at that lowest elevation. I looked it up last year, K has like a 2-3 degree edge, on average, with the stairway. SR had th edge before.


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