# Aggravation



## kingslug (Feb 12, 2018)

Do you get aggravated with all this where to go, is it frozen, look it rained and froze, etc, etc. I still do, sux. Yes I can and do ski out west at least 3x a season but still find it aggravating that our weather here can drive you crazy. Skiing is my escape from the insanity of my job..I need it. And its hard to explain to people who don't ski what the whole bother is about...they don't get it. I guess a golfer would if it rained on most of their weekends. Its even worse when its good and you can't get there, then finally get to go, and its a rink..kind of like this past 2 weeks. 
I used to think my motorcycle was connected to rain clouds..start it and it starts raining..


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## cdskier (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes...I know exactly what you mean.

Even though Saturday was great I knew the forecast after that was pretty crappy and thus was pretty annoyed knowing it wouldn't last. Sitting in my condo Saturday night and seeing rain fall outside was infuriating. You are so right that non-skiers don't understand. Even many casual skiers don't quite understand I would argue.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 12, 2018)

I think we all get a little weird about things in the winter. Mood = very weather dependent :lol:

My big move this year was to obtain a floating work schedule and zero notice on schedule arrangements during the winter. I guess being a web developer gives me a lot of flexibility. Family business on top of that and you're sort of set.

So, this week looks like crap after last week, but I think Wed will be good for MRG and Thurs I'll figure out on the fly.

Also, being willing to drive to Jay when everywhere else sucks helps a lot. Jay Peak is more reliably better conditions than a lot of western places. I'm sure the same applies to Wildcat if you're further out that way.


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## Edd (Feb 12, 2018)

Bretton Woods probably has the most reliable snow conditions in NH.  Ok base elevation with flatter terrain, lots of glades, and very wind resistant. The winds really screw with Wildcat's snow conditions.


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## skimagic (Feb 12, 2018)

Aggravating to the max.  Today, rather than chasing snow,  i'm chasing slush to avoid frozen hardpack


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## Oz Von Toco (Feb 12, 2018)

Anyone have any hope this season could turn around a bit? Living in jersey  windham/hunter/belle/mountain creek are my realistic day trip options, which have all been pounded with rain...




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## tnt1234 (Feb 12, 2018)

Being a flatlander skier is the worst.  Work and schedules mean few opportunities to get to the mountains, so a constant watch on the weather to see if the weekend you picked will have good snow....then trying to keep options open and plan a trip last minute, leading to even closer weather watching to try to make the right call....with 2-3 hour each way day trips to small, often crowded and poor snow quality mountains just to feel like you are a skier....exhausting.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 12, 2018)

Edd said:


> Bretton Woods probably has the most reliable snow conditions in NH.  Ok base elevation with flatter terrain, lots of glades, and very wind resistant. The winds really screw with Wildcat's snow conditions.



That is, until Les Otten turns Balsams Wilderness into a bigger-than-Killington super resort.

Is this really happening?


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## ironhippy (Feb 12, 2018)

I'm glad i got back into mountain biking a few years ago.

When the snow is crap for skiing (after a thaw-freeze) the biking is really, really good.

Now the only time I don't have an outside activity is when it's raining and really I can snowshoe if I'm motivated enough, but normally i just get on the bike trainer and wait for things to freeze.


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## ss20 (Feb 12, 2018)

I've found that becoming a part-time ski instructor (4 seasons now...time flies...) has made me less concerned with the weather.  I still get my days on-snow.  When it's good, I go north.  When skiing's not so hot, I teach more.  

I did feel some aggravation last night when I realized it was warmer outside than in my garage where I was tuning my skis.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 12, 2018)

ironhippy said:


> I'm glad i got back into mountain biking a few years ago.
> 
> When the snow is crap for skiing (after a thaw-freeze) the biking is really, really good.
> 
> Now the only time I don't have an outside activity is when it's raining and really I can snowshoe if I'm motivated enough, but normally i just get on the bike trainer and wait for things to freeze.



I need to rediscover this, honestly.

Got a nice 6" dualie Specialized Enduro sitting in the garage; barely use it. In high school I raged MTB, did pretty good in races too. Had that technical stuff down and thought myself an aspiring trials rider. Even had one of those 14" wheeled bikes with dual Maguras for that purpose for a while.

At this point in my life... 35... I can see this being definitely the best way to train and stay in shape at least for the ski season. We got miles and miles of MTB trails right out my door.

Time to step it up again. Thanks for the reminder.


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## Oz Von Toco (Feb 12, 2018)

tnt1234 said:


> Being a flatlander skier is the worst.  Work and schedules mean few opportunities to get to the mountains, so a constant watch on the weather to see if the weekend you picked will have good snow....then trying to keep options open and plan a trip last minute, leading to even closer weather watching to try to make the right call....with 2-3 hour each way day trips to small, often crowded and poor snow quality mountains just to feel like you are a skier....exhausting.



 100% agree. It seems every time it snows it's followed by rain/warm temps so short of calling out I can't really take advantage, and by the weekend it's gone...


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## The Sneak (Feb 12, 2018)

BW was in excellent shape this past Saturday. Spent the whole day in the glades. So much fun.
High performance milf on the chair talking crap about her husband was amusing, less so that she was telling her child how much daddy sucked at life.


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## cdskier (Feb 12, 2018)

Oz Von Toco said:


> 100% agree. It seems every time it snows it's followed by rain/warm temps so short of calling out I can't really take advantage, and by the weekend it's gone...



So incredibly frustrating sitting in the office during the week and seeing ski resorts posting pictures of excellent conditions meanwhile knowing the forecast isn't going to allow that to still be the case by the weekend. Sure I do some long weekends here and there by adding in a Friday at times, but powder days earlier in the week are just evil as they would require multiple days off from work and usually aren't feasible.

This year in particular seems to be particularly bad for weekends...


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 12, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> High performance milf on the chair talking crap about her husband was amusing, less so that she was telling her child how much daddy sucked at life.



The clientele comes with the terrain.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 12, 2018)

cdskier said:


> So incredibly frustrating sitting in the office during the week and seeing ski resorts posting pictures of excellent conditions meanwhile knowing the forecast isn't going to allow that to still be the case by the weekend. Sure I do some long weekends here and there by adding in a Friday at times, but powder days earlier in the week are just evil as they would require multiple days off from work and usually aren't feasible.
> 
> This year in particular seems to be particularly bad for weekends...


I hear you there.
I finally took my own advice and took a sick day last Wednesday to go ride the storm... it was totally worth it.  Its not something I can get away with often though unfortunately.


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## jimk (Feb 12, 2018)

Any whining from you Northerners will be drowned out by louder whining from us Southerners  Our mid-Atlantic season is trying to wind down early with a ton of non-frozen precip and warm temps lately.  And it hardly ever exactly flourished.  We had a nice cold spell in second half of Dec that the resorts put to good use for snowmaking to open a decent percent of groomers.  But we never got much natural snow anywhere south of Northern PA, so trees never really came into play and few bumps sprouted.  Jan and Feb have been up and down, but mostly down.  Between trips West I have saved Prez Weekend for my last local skiing.  It could be down to WROD, but at least I think the niar will stop by Saturday 2/17. 
I'm hoping to fix this problem next year by spending two months in Utah, but as we know even they are not immune to...aggravation


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## AdironRider (Feb 12, 2018)

I stopped paying attention to snow reports a few years back after falling down the rabbit hole. I was looking at infared NOAA maps and coming up with my own predictions by the end. 

I just go ride now. I wake up and see snow, sweet. I was up and see sun, alright bluebird! I wake up and its cold, put on another layer. I wake up and its raining, I drink a beer. 

Otherwise I'm just left thinking "oh it would be better if". I'd rather just keep thinking snowboarding is awesome. 

We all fell in love with the sport as a beginner, on the bunny hill, most likely in rental gear. Those conditions and equipment are usually the worst available at any given ski hill. It didn't take a foot of fresh, or impeccable grooming, for you to fall in love with it. You did because its awesome and fun. Its still awesome and fun regardless of conditions.


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## Hawk (Feb 12, 2018)

There is a solution.  Move to where it snows a lot more.  Utah, the northwest, BC, etc.  Take only work that puts you in close proximity to these areas.  Get a place on the hill or very close to it.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS....or an non-skiing wife for that matter.  Sacrifice everything for that elusive Powder or at least combination of several of these things.  I was successful with a few of these and my powder day yield has been a lot better.  It's not for everybody.  But it sure feels great to be the one that is there when it snows on a weekday.

Otherwise I do on let the bad weather frustrate me.  Wasting time and energy on things you can't control is bad for you.  Close your eyes and take a deep breath and say  Fuk That!  I just ride my mountain bike when the snow sucks and at least I am outside having fun.


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## Bumpsis (Feb 12, 2018)

If it were not for some relative flexibility in my work schedule and being able to take days off with little advance, I'd be mighty depressed.
I definitely cherry pick my days but the down side is that can do this rather infrequently. I took a day off this past Friday and enjoyed a super day at Sugarbush. Their last Wednesday's snow event gave them great conditions even two days after the storm. Alas, such days are rare.
It seems that our winters are now in mostly in "spring weather" mode. I don't think I'll ever get used to this.


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## jimk (Feb 12, 2018)

I played poker last Saturday night with a guy who lives near me.  He skis only two weeks per winter; that is, two week-long trips to the West.  He has never skied at the small, but very popular local areas within 90 mins of Wash DC where most of us learned to ski.  When my wife (the retired skier) heard this, she said words to this effect:  no wonder he's still skiing into his 60's, he never deals with all the marginal crap.  I shook my head in partial agreement, but didn't tell her the two western trips on the guy's schedule this winter are Taos (January) and Telluride (March).  Both are suffering from exceptionally poor snow this winter.  There are always wildcards, you have to make the best of the hand you're dealt.


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## Rowsdower (Feb 12, 2018)

Hawk said:


> There is a solution.  Move to where it snows a lot more.  Utah, the northwest, BC, etc.  Take only work that puts you in close proximity to these areas.  Get a place on the hill or very close to it.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS....or an non-skiing wife for that matter.  Sacrifice everything for that elusive Powder or at least combination of several of these things.  I was successful with a few of these and my powder day yield has been a lot better.  It's not for everybody.  But it sure feels great to be the one that is there when it snows on a weekday.
> 
> Otherwise I do on let the bad weather frustrate me.  Wasting time and energy on things you can't control is bad for you.  Close your eyes and take a deep breath and say  Fuk That!  I just ride my mountain bike when the snow sucks and at least I am outside having fun.



Or... rather than remaining celibate and marrying your powder skis, choose a career with flexibility in where you can work?


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 12, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> I stopped paying attention to snow reports a few years back after falling down the rabbit hole. I was looking at infared NOAA maps and coming up with my own predictions by the end.
> 
> I just go ride now. I wake up and see snow, sweet. I was up and see sun, alright bluebird! I wake up and its cold, put on another layer. I wake up and its raining, I drink a beer.
> 
> ...



That's a beautiful zen-like philosophy.

But I prefer to live on the edge. That includes the cutting edge of available weather model technology. The edge of webmastering 250 clientele and taking my laptop on the edge; getting their urgent updates done as I crack open a Heady Topper (or W/ETF beer), peeling off my ski socks in an $80 motel.

At least that's my plan this week.


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## drjeff (Feb 12, 2018)

Doesn't really get to me after almost 40 seasons of being a Northeast skier. 

I have a work schedule that typically gives me 50+ days a year, but not a ton of last minute flexibility to go last minute on an unplanned day.

I look at it this way, I love the sport enough that regardless of whether it's a powder day, a wet day, a dust on crust day, nice temps, ugly temps, multi face mask day or a sunscreen day, I've got the gear to get out on the hill, on my set days, regardless of the conditions, and I'm very, very, very likely to always have fun while out there

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## kingslug (Feb 12, 2018)

Im at least glad last season made up for many crappy ones..skied more powder in 40 days than in 120..even ended up in Chile..where it dumped but melted and froze the rest if the week..felt just like...home..


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## slatham (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry to admit my mood is greatly influenced by the weather, or least really bad weather (aka The MLK Flood) or a dump (aka Merry Christmas Powder Day). I try to take Dr Jeff's road, and yes I almost always end up having fun on the mountain even if the conditions aren't great. But looking at the current forecast for the next week or so is depressing and it bums me out.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 12, 2018)

I’m seriously thinking about buying a fat tire bike.  I’ve been told that they are the most fun in hardpack.  I see it as a good insurance policy that will allow me to enjoy crappy skiing days.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 12, 2018)

slatham said:


> Sorry to admit my mood is greatly influenced by the weather.



If you love this sport you HAVE to be impacted by the weather.  The people claiming to be completely Zen about the weather are either incapable of feeling or are lying.


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## JimG. (Feb 12, 2018)

A lot like last season.


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## cdskier (Feb 12, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> If you love this sport you HAVE to be impacted by the weather.  The people claiming to be completely Zen about the weather are either incapable of feeling or are lying.



I tend to agree with this. Sure I can still have fun in somewhat crappy conditions (almost anything with the exception of outright ice), but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed by the weather or conditions. Lapping groomers is better than sitting home or in the office, but I'd still prefer if the natural terrain is in play and skiing well.


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## tnt1234 (Feb 12, 2018)

cdskier said:


> I tend to agree with this. Sure I can still have fun in somewhat crappy conditions (almost anything with the exception of outright ice), but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed by the weather or conditions. Lapping groomers is better than sitting home or in the office, but I'd still prefer if the natural terrain is in play and skiing well.



Yeah, and it just sucks when you only have a couple of weekends to get there...

Day trips to the pokes or catskills...doesn't bum me out if it's marginal.  It's the trips up north that hurt.


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## ss20 (Feb 12, 2018)

JimG. said:


> A lot like last season.



Agreed.  Slightly better this year I feel...but my memory is heavily biased towards what I experience in the Flatlands where I teach.  I remember last year there was something crazy like a 2 week span in January where they couldn't make snow.  Then there was the absolute BLOWTORCH for President's week.  That was crazy.  I clearly remember leading down lessons avoiding popsicles and grass/mud and puddles...in the middle of February.   

March was good though.  Very cold.  St. Patricks day blizzard.  Skied 32" at Bellayre or something crazy like that.


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## cdskier (Feb 12, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Agreed.  Slightly better this year I feel...but my memory is heavily biased towards what I experience in the Flatlands where I teach.  I remember last year there was something crazy like a 2 week span in January where they couldn't make snow.  Then there was the absolute BLOWTORCH for President's week.  That was crazy.  I clearly remember leading down lessons avoiding popsicles and grass/mud and puddles...in the middle of February.
> 
> March was good though.  Very cold.  St. Patricks day blizzard.  Skied 32" at Bellayre or something crazy like that.



They've both been "bad" and "good" in different ways I think. Judging purely based on the photos I took last year, it seems January had a bit more consistent conditions on weekends. At this exact point last season, Sugarbush also had over DOUBLE the amount of snow that they have this year. (I do remember there being a sharp drop in snowfall totals south of Sugarbush though to be fair)

They also had quite a bit of snow right before the holiday (just looked at the snow reports and they had over a foot right before the President's weekend)...and then the brutal blowtorch came. After that lower elevation trails in particular were very much back to square one in many cases (the pictures I have of Lower Domino from 2/25 last year are filled with numerous bare spots). It was actually so bad by early March that even Sugarbush fired back up the guns in the beginning of March. After that though it seems things did improve and we had quite a bit of snow in March and April. Funny how those March and April conditions (along with an absolutely epic December) are what stick in my mind about last year and I had forgotten how bad the end of February ultimately was until people started to bring it up. I apparently had successfully blocked the bad parts of last season from my mind until now.

Moral of the story though I suppose is that even if the next couple weeks of February are crappy, there's still plenty of times for things to turn back around.


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## Hawk (Feb 13, 2018)

Rowsdower said:


> Or... rather than remaining celibate and marrying your powder skis, choose a career with flexibility in where you can work?


Celibate???   Who said that?  and as for a career, I think I covered that.


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## Hawk (Feb 13, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Doesn't really get to me after almost 40 seasons of being a Northeast skier.
> 
> I have a work schedule that typically gives me 50+ days a year, but not a ton of last minute flexibility to go last minute on an unplanned day.
> 
> ...



Amen Brother!


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## Hawk (Feb 13, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> I’m seriously thinking about buying a fat tire bike.  I’ve been told that they are the most fun in hardpack.  I see it as a good insurance policy that will allow me to enjoy crappy skiing days.


Considering you are up in the NEK with the Kingdom Trails at your Door, I am surprised that you don't already have one.  The Kingdom trails have done an excellent job with the fat tire crew in the winter.  Everybody that goes says it is top notch.  Go rip it up dude.


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## ironhippy (Feb 13, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> I’m seriously thinking about buying a fat tire bike.  I’ve been told that they are the most fun in hardpack.  I see it as a good insurance policy that will allow me to enjoy crappy skiing days.



A fat bike on complete hard pack (where you can walk without snowshoes) is the most fun I've ever had on a bike.  It is the closest feeling I've had to powder skiing (when not powder skiing). Climb up an open hill, look back down, bike ANYWHERE you want to go.



This was at a local golf course last year, we have not had these conditions this year but the groomed stuff has been great at times.
Winter Fat biking is completely weather dependent, but normally the weather that makes good fat biking makes poor skiing and vice versa so you are almost always ready to do something.

Snowshoe or XC ski when you can't downhill ski or fat bike.


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## Smellytele (Feb 13, 2018)

The Sneak said:


> BW was in excellent shape this past Saturday. Spent the whole day in the glades. So much fun.
> High performance milf on the chair talking crap about her husband was amusing, less so that she was telling her child how much daddy sucked at life.



Heard Sunday was a frozen glare ice skating rink there.


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## tumbler (Feb 13, 2018)

I have no control over the weather so I try to not have it control my mood.  Yes, conditions could be better but I still go to the mountains on the weekends and have fun regardless.  I gave up a long time ago trying to will the weather, now I just drink.


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## Glenn (Feb 13, 2018)

It's been a challenge the last few years. My wife and I take a few long weekends throughout the season and hope for the best. Some days, you get lucky; like the day we had before Christmas. Other days, you don't...like yesterday. I sometimes feel like we wish the winter away because we're always looking ahead to the next storm...or next cold snap. This week looks like a drag and into next week...so what's it going to do after that? 

The season is limited and so are the available days on the hill. You just have to make the most of it. We've gone the quality over quantity route. We typically skip Saturdays and get our runs in on Sundays. This year, work has gotten in the way of all the good powder days. 

It seems that having a regular winter with average snow and consistently cold temps is asking too much.


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## SnowRock (Feb 13, 2018)

I’m a 20-25 day a year sort and lucky in that my wife understands how much I enjoy getting on the snow and we have no kids yet. Would love to get more days, but we are sort of locked into NYC for work currently so this is about as much as I can make happen from here. 

I find it impossible not to follow the weather and it definitely impacts my mood. I can’t complain about this year to date, have logged 15 days, mostly solid in the east and had a fun 3 days in Jackson with snow….  But I am worried between weather and work how the rest of the season is going to play out.  Taking our nephews for their first VT trip first weekend in March so hoping it is decent enough for them. Then need to get two more trips to Stowe. 

By end of April I’m sure it will be all good but it’s sort of funny how much I stress over something that gives me a ton of enjoyment. And agree.. looking ahead to the next storm, pattern change, days when I can sneak away, often makes the winter fly by.


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## AdironRider (Feb 13, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> If you love this sport you HAVE to be impacted by the weather.  The people claiming to be completely Zen about the weather are either incapable of feeling or are lying.



To be fair I live 10 minutes from skiing so that certainly helps my zen like attitude. Would I prefer 2 foot pow days every day, sure. But that is never going to happen so why worry about it. 

I've got something like 2000 days on a hill now. I've seen and skied it all. Worrying about the weather, a facet you have absolutely zero control over, seems like a waste of time. 

But I must just be lying or a robot.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 13, 2018)

I live 20 minutes from skiing. 

I didn’t say that you have to worry.  I said that the weather will have an impact on you if you love the sport.  That’s just a fact.  Don’t kid yourself otherwise.  And, yes, if you don’t like a bluebird powder day more than pouring rain, you are either incapable of feeling or are lying.  I stand by that.


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## AdironRider (Feb 13, 2018)

I based my entire life about getting on the hill as much as possible. If conditions mattered at all I'd work in a city and pay to play on a heli or storm chase. 

You take what the mountain gives you. I don't sweat the details, or adapt my skiing on a given days weather conditions. It's all fun. 

It just seems like a waste of time to be "disappointed" or aggravated about conditions while you are skiing. A purely leisure activity. I think its an oxymoron in a sense to bitch about how much more fun you could be having compared to just average fun.


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## ThinkSnow (Feb 13, 2018)

Isn't bitching the point of this site?


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## kingslug (Feb 13, 2018)

Well hey..Stowe says they have some olympic quality groomers now..oh..boy..


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## Smellytele (Feb 13, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> I based my entire life about getting on the hill as much as possible. If conditions mattered at all I'd work in a city and pay to play on a heli or storm chase.
> 
> You take what the mountain gives you. I don't sweat the details, or adapt my skiing on a given days weather conditions. It's all fun.
> 
> It just seems like a waste of time to be "disappointed" or aggravated about conditions while you are skiing. A purely leisure activity. I think its an oxymoron in a sense to bitch about how much more fun you could be having compared to just average fun.



With weekend warriors they book trips well in advance and if the weather is not great they will be disappointed. If you can ski at a drop of a hat and/or live within 10 minutes of the hill then it isn't as big of a deal. I do live within 10 minutes of a ski area and still get disappointed when I leave my house and it is snowing then it turns to freezing rain. So it was a waste of time (albeit just 20 minutes of time) to drive there. It is more how much fun you could be having compared to no fun at all or the opposite of fun.


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## WJenness (Feb 13, 2018)

kingslug said:


> Well hey..Stowe says they have some olympic quality groomers now..oh..boy..



Does that mean water injected and hard AF?


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## cdskier (Feb 13, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> I think its an oxymoron in a sense to bitch about how much more fun you could be having compared to just average fun.



So if I go to a restaurant and have an ok meal, I shouldn't be disappointed that it wasn't as good as it was other times? Because hey, at least it was still better than eating nothing or eating some super crappy food?

Sorry, I don't agree with your logic. You can have fun and still be disappointed at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.


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## MJP (Feb 13, 2018)

I agree with you totally.
I ski every weekend. And every weekend has been different. Just ski.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 13, 2018)

cdskier said:


> So if I go to a restaurant and have an ok meal, I shouldn't be disappointed that it wasn't as good as it was other times? Because hey, at least it was still better than eating nothing or eating some super crappy food?
> 
> Sorry, I don't agree with your logic. You can have fun and still be disappointed at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.



If I’m understanding this correctly, you take whatever the restaurant gives you and there is no such thing as one meal being better than another.  

SMH


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## cdskier (Feb 13, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> If I’m understanding this correctly, you take whatever the restaurant gives you and there is no such thing as one meal being better than another.
> 
> SMH



Ahh...so that's how it works. Good to know! :beer:


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## Glenn (Feb 13, 2018)

I have to imagine a lot of disappointment comes from the limited time a lot of us have to spend on the mountain. My wife and I take time off well in advance. It's a roll of the dice; it may snow, it may not. It could snow 18" the week prior then rain on Sunday. I think it's easier to take a more leisurely attitude towards it if you can pick and choose your days on the hill. When you're locked into weekends or time off, you get what you get. And sometimes that's a big plate of disappointment.  But hey, it was still nice to be outside yesterday. So you have to take a bit of a glass half full approach.


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## bigbog (Feb 13, 2018)

Hawk said:


> There is a solution.  Move to where it snows a lot more.  Utah, the northwest, BC, etc.  Take only work that puts you in close proximity to these areas.  Get a place on the hill or very close to it.  DO NOT HAVE KIDS....or an non-skiing wife for that matter.  Sacrifice everything for that elusive Powder or at least combination of several of these things.  I was successful with a few of these and my powder day yield has been a lot better.  It's not for everybody.  But it sure feels great to be the one that is there when it snows on a weekday.
> 
> Otherwise I do on let the bad weather frustrate me.  Wasting time and energy on things you can't control is bad for you.  Close your eyes and take a deep breath and say  Fuk That!  I just ride my mountain bike when the snow sucks and at least I am outside having fun.



In looking online I think I might just want to find the area then do a little trip for possible land to build on.  Some small places the size of your basic mini-mobile home are carrying some mighty hefty pricetags.....thanks to today's realty companies and sellers looking for their pot of gold, platinum and silver ASAP....up in BC near a few of those mini-cities for the wealthy.


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## AdironRider (Feb 13, 2018)

Ok guys, keep on keepin on getting pissed about ski conditions. I don't have to justify my happiness because you think I could be happier.


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## Edd (Feb 13, 2018)

ThinkSnow said:


> Isn't bitching the point of this site?



It is often, and I support that. I’ve bitched too much about a few things but, if AZ isn’t a place to complain, it loses some usefulness.


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## JimG. (Feb 13, 2018)

I can pick and choose my days and have had some awesome days on the hill this season so far. 

But if I only skied on primo condition days I would ski a lot less than I want to. So I also ski in the rain and on days after a hard freeze.

Would I rather ski in a blizzard or the day after? Of course! Do I avoid bad conditions? No, because skiing is fun no matter what.

So I guess I agree with AdironRider.


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## caribchakita (Feb 13, 2018)

It's only been this year for me, for some reason. I feel like I am living my old windsurf days when I was obsessed with "where to sail", "what size board", "what size fin"....

I wish there was an app that told me where there was good snow, running lifts, easy parking (think Okemo gridlock at 4 PM similar to Gillette Stadium) and within a 4 hour drive.


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## caribchakita (Feb 13, 2018)

Agreed on Wildcat. It can be super windy and super icy. When it's good, phew..it's a blast.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 13, 2018)

Ask and you shall receive...

Sizable storm coming for southern New England POSSIBLE Saturday night-Sunday...came out of nowhere.  Every model but the GFS has it.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 13, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Ask and you shall receive...
> 
> Sizable storm coming for southern New England POSSIBLE Saturday night-Sunday...came out of nowhere.  Every model but the GFS has it.


Why would we want a southern New England snow storm? Actually you didn't even say snow..


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 13, 2018)

If only there were some way for folks to ski in a hermetic, temperature and climate controlled environment 365 days a year.  That would be tops.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 13, 2018)

Domeskier said:


> If only there were some way for folks to ski in a hermetic, temperature and climate controlled environment 365 days a year.  That would be tops.



In a little place called Dubai.


----------



## ss20 (Feb 13, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Why would we want a southern New England snow storm? Actually you didn't even say snow..



Because contrary to popular belief skiing exists south of VT and NH.


----------



## Domeskier (Feb 13, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> In a little place called Dubai.



They really ought to stop changing the name already and just get the thing finished.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 13, 2018)

ss20 said:


> Because contrary to popular belief skiing exists south of VT and NH.



Even the people who live south of VT/NH/ME still mostly care about snow in VT/NH/ME - and Northern NY.

And who asked for snow below them?


----------



## Jcb890 (Feb 13, 2018)

cdskier said:


> So if I go to a restaurant and have an ok meal, I shouldn't be disappointed that it wasn't as good as it was other times? Because hey, at least it was still better than eating nothing or eating some super crappy food?
> 
> Sorry, I don't agree with your logic. You can have fun and still be disappointed at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.





VTKilarney said:


> If I’m understanding this correctly, you take whatever the restaurant gives you and there is no such thing as one meal being better than another.
> 
> SMH


If you take what the restaurant gives you, you will always have a great meal.



ss20 said:


> Because contrary to popular belief skiing exists south of VT and NH.


Stop lying.
Unless you meant to say "West" in which case I agree.  :lol:


----------



## ss20 (Feb 13, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> If you take what the restaurant gives you, you will always have a great meal.
> 
> 
> Stop lying.
> Unless you meant to say "West" in which case I agree.  :lol:



What happened to the Sundown Cult that was on here??? They'd support my cause!!!! :grin:


----------



## cdskier (Feb 13, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Even the people who live south of VT/NH/ME still mostly care about snow in VT/NH/ME - and Northern NY.
> 
> And who asked for snow below them?



Canadian shows 1-3" for almost all of VT/NH/ME and northern NY Saturday-Sunday, yet around 6-8 for most of NJ, CT, etc. Speaking as someone from NJ, I agree that this is so not helpful and just further aggravates me lol.


----------



## John9 (Feb 13, 2018)

I will date myself. I remember high school ski club in NJ, say 1991 to 94. Evey Friday afternoon and night at Vernon Valley and several Saturdays at Windham, with a 3 day trip to Killington. Cold weather and snow was never an issue. We always had great conditions, it got cold and stayed cold for 4 months. Now winter in the NE is hit or miss, day by day. I have been lucky to get some good days this "season."


----------



## kingslug (Feb 13, 2018)

Theres no right or wrong to all this..its just the way we all deal with it. I guess i dont like east coast skiing anymore..im spoiled...and hopefully ill get out of here someday..Utah would be best but cant really make a decent wage there..colorodo might be the ticket.


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## Jcb890 (Feb 13, 2018)

ss20 said:


> What happened to the Sundown Cult that was on here??? They'd support my cause!!!! :grin:


Just giving you a hard time.  I wish for the best conditions for everyone!  I have a buddy who lives and works down in VA.  They have had a very tough season.



kingslug said:


> Theres no right or wrong to all this..its just the way we all deal with it. I guess i dont like east coast skiing anymore..im spoiled...and hopefully ill get out of here someday..Utah would be best but cant really make a decent wage there..colorodo might be the ticket.


Can't really make a decent wage in most of the ski-centric areas.  Exceptions would I guess be Colorado and Seattle maybe.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 13, 2018)

Salt Lake, Denver, Reno, Seattle, Boise; the list of large cities with real world jobs and close to skiing is long out West. Many more options than back East which is basically Boston. NYC is like 3-4 hours even to Hunter.


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## Smellytele (Feb 13, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Salt Lake, Denver, Reno, Seattle, Boise; the list of large cities with real world jobs and close to skiing is long out West. Many more options than back East which is basically Boston. NYC is like 3-4 hours even to Hunter.



Living in denver and having to drive to the ski areas is not picnic.  As far as kingslug making a decent wage in SLC it is a lot cheaper to live than on Longgg Island.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 13, 2018)

It does seem to be getting pretty bad down Denver ways, but there are methods to get around the madness to a certain extent. 

That being said it seems no worse than the daily commute anywhere within the 128 corridor.

Cost of living definitely varies. You can live like a king in Boise or Reno for a pittance compared to most areas of the Northeast. Seattle not so much.


----------



## kingslug (Feb 14, 2018)

I did check out ways to avoid I70 which is the worst road in the country for ski access..there are ways around it. My dream is Utah as we have many friends there but the pay is terrible. It would be a major hit..no way my wife would take that kind of cut..me..I'm the ski nut so I would. And I would rather drive 3 hours to get to a Colorado my than 3 to 5 to VT.


----------



## John9 (Feb 14, 2018)

I think in the NE we all have an idea about how much money we need to earn. People live in all 50 states, have jobs, homes and families. Not moving to VT or CO is a regret, but still possible.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 14, 2018)

kingslug said:


> I did check out ways to avoid I70 which is the worst road in the country for ski access..there are ways around it. My dream is Utah as we have many friends there but the pay is terrible. It would be a major hit..no way my wife would take that kind of cut..me..I'm the ski nut so I would. And I would rather drive 3 hours to get to a Colorado my than 3 to 5 to VT.



I didn't realize how bad the air quality is in SLC until someone I know just moved out there and they say they have quite a few poor air quality days. The mountains block the air from moving out the smog and the air just flows up and over the salt lake basin and locks in the smog.


----------



## ThinkSnow (Feb 14, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Living in denver and having to drive to the ski areas is not picnic.  As far as kingslug making a decent wage in SLC it is a lot cheaper to live than on Lawn Guuylind.


 (Made a correction for ya.)


----------



## kingslug (Feb 14, 2018)

You can avoid the smog by living at a higher elevation...at least some parts of the day. My wife checked out the pay she could make there...about 1\4 what she makes..not happening.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 14, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> Can't really make a decent wage in most of the ski-centric areas.  Exceptions would I guess be Colorado and Seattle maybe.



While there are definitely fewer opportunities, you can make a decent wage in ski country.


----------



## tumbler (Feb 14, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> While there are definitely fewer opportunities, you can make a decent wage in ski country.



But you also have to have the flexibilty to be able to ski whenever you want, hard to get both.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 14, 2018)

tumbler said:


> But you also have to have the flexibilty to be able to ski whenever you want, hard to get both.



While my job does not give me the flexibility to ski whenever I want, I can certainly ski much more than I could if I had to drive three or four hours to hit the slopes.  I ski on a lot of weekday afternoons without taking too much time off, for example.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2018)

kingslug said:


> *My wife checked out the pay she could make there...about 1\4 what she makes*..not happening.



I know you dont make as much in Utah as in NY/NJ, but unless your wife sells beach chairs & surf boards, a 75% cut doesn't seem possible.

The future Mrs. BG & I are pondering the possibility of a move to Utah, she's a teacher & we speculate she would take about a 25% to 33% pay-cut.   I work in finance, so it's a bit more varied, but I doubt I'd get hit with more than a 25% cut.

I've used those C.O.L. tools (which are very, very crude estimates admittedly), which suggest we could take approximately a 21% pay cut and live the same in Utah as we do in New Jersey, so the financial pain we'd experience doesn't seem as draconian you're suggesting.

Plus there's the future to consider, New Jersey treats its' businesses like the Orkin man treats cockroaches, whereas the economy & growth in Utah seems pretty sound right now.  My 2¢.


----------



## kingslug (Feb 14, 2018)

A quarter of 200k is 50 k...the research was done..i would take a 50% cut..too much..if it wasnt true i would be going. She needs to work where there are company headquarters..Denver has that.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 14, 2018)

I can see where in your mind you can't fathom taking a 25% hit on income but NY/NJ has a very high cost of living as BG has pointed out.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 14, 2018)

kingslug said:


> A quarter of 200k is 50 k...the research was done..i would take a 50% cut..too much..if it wasnt true i would be going. She needs to work where there are company headquarters..Denver has that.



50-75% hit is crazy


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> *I can see where in your mind you can't fathom taking a 25% hit on income but NY/NJ has a very high cost of living as BG has pointed out.*



His research says it's about a 75% hit moving from the NY metro to Utah.

My research says it's about a 25% hit moving from the NY metro to Utah.

That's the variance.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 14, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> 50-75% hit is crazy



And a bullshit number. 

I'm not the only one who has made a move like this. TB is a lawyer and moved to SLC, I highly doubt it resulted in a 75% pay cut. 

About 25% is the hit I take compared to back East. Seems to hold true for most cats I know compared to where they came from. Worst I've heard is about 35-40% for an entry level nurse.

I actually seem to live better despite the pay cut. No gym membership needed, housing is cheaper (well not in Jackson), food is cheaper. Property taxes are waaaay cheaper. Cars dont rust and require less maintenance/upkeep. It all shakes out in the end.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Feb 14, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> . Seems to hold true for most cats I know compared to where they came from.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## John9 (Feb 14, 2018)

Everyone else who lives in these places is able to. I think living in the tri state area gives us a warped view.


----------



## shwilly (Feb 14, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> And a bullshit number.



Eh, it depends. It wouldn't be 75% for "normal" jobs, but there are high end finance and corporate jobs in NYC that just don't exist most other places. Portfolio managers and big law firm partners would probably take a huge pay cut.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 14, 2018)

And those job holders aren't skiing the East, they are flying private to their third home in Jackson.


----------



## drjeff (Feb 14, 2018)

Piece #1 - none of us presumably short of Kingslug himself know what his wife's occupation is, so for anyone to be speculating that his report of a 75% hit to his wife's income and a 50% to his with a move to Utah is just pure guessing on their part

Piece #2 - for all we know, part of the lifestyle that Kingslug and his wife live, which may be very important to them, may be predicated on earning levels that are quite a bit above just earning levels that would allow them to move to Utah. We don't know how that part of the equation ties into their lifestyle happiness

Piece #3 - The folks commentating in much of this discussion aren't Kingslug and thus really are just speculating based on their own opinion, an opinion which may very well be 100% from their own point of view, but may be completely off base with Kingslug's point of view, and since it's him and his wife that would be making the possible move, that's the only real opinion that matters in this case


----------



## drjeff (Feb 14, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> And those job holders aren't skiing the East, they are flying private to their third home in Jackson.



While some of them drive to their places in VT most weekends and fly (commercial) out West on occasion during the season.....  That describes the majority of the guys/families that make up my skiing and social circles.  They're in the top 0.5% of wage earners, but they're not in the top 0.1% of wage earners.....


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 14, 2018)

Unless she is a General Contractor, or a tradesman owning their own business and would have to start over with zero clients, its still a bullshit number. 

Some of us actually know job markets out here, since we live an work out here also. 

Now if they don't want to move for any reason, that is a perfectly fine perogative of course, but saying its a 75% pay cut can be called out as bs. Thats my opinion.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2018)

shwilly said:


> Eh, it depends. *It wouldn't be 75% for "normal" jobs, but there are high end finance and corporate jobs in NYC that just don't exist most other places. Portfolio managers *and big law firm partners would probably take a huge pay cut.



You'd be surprised though, the world's changing.  Twenty or thirty years ago nearly all the hedge funds were consolidated in a few small areas.  Now they're located all over the dang place.    But yeah, there definitely are niche jobs and/or jobs for which you know you could never "get" or replace somewhere else, but that's probably irrespective of any particular given geography. 

  Anyway, my comments were more general C.O.L. based, which should cover the vast majority of people, and I'm guessing my 25% figure isnt too far off the mark.  Maybe it's 30%, but, whatever...  All I know is I really need to sit down with an Excel spreadsheet and some B.L.S. data and create my own speadsheet to figure this all out if it gets to the point we're dead serious about the potential move.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 14, 2018)

drjeff said:


> While some of them drive to their places in VT most weekends and fly (commercial) out West on occasion during the season.....  That describes the majority of the guys/families that make up my skiing and social circles.  They're in the top 0.5% of wage earners, but they're not in the top 0.1% of wage earners.....



If you want to take things literally, sure not all of them are flying private.


----------



## JimG. (Feb 14, 2018)

"Aggravation"

When everyone around you just can't stop bitching about the weather. Jesus suck it up and make the best of it!


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 14, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> You'd be surprised though, the world's changing.  Twenty or thirty years ago nearly all the hedge funds were consolidated in a few small areas.  Now they're located all over the dang place.    But yeah, there definitely are niche jobs and/or jobs for which you know you could never "get" or replace somewhere else, but that's probably irrespective of any particular given geography.
> 
> Anyway, my comments were more general C.O.L. based, which should cover the vast majority of people, and I'm guessing my 25% figure isnt too far off the mark.  Maybe it's 30%, but, whatever...  All I know is I really need to sit down with an Excel spreadsheet and some B.L.S. data and create my own speadsheet to figure this all out if it gets to the point we're dead serious about the potential move.



Teton County Wyoming has the highest per capita income of any county in the US from all the hedge fund guys based out here.


----------



## kingslug (Feb 14, 2018)

drjeff said:


> Piece #1 - none of us presumably short of Kingslug himself know what his wife's occupation is, so for anyone to be speculating that his report of a 75% hit to his wife's income and a 50% to his with a move to Utah is just pure guessing on their part
> 
> Piece #2 - for all we know, part of the lifestyle that Kingslug and his wife live, which may be very important to them, may be predicated on earning levels that are quite a bit above just earning levels that would allow them to move to Utah. We don't know how that part of the equation ties into their lifestyle happiness
> 
> Piece #3 - The folks commentating in much of this discussion aren't Kingslug and thus really are just speculating based on their own opinion, an opinion which may very well be 100% from their own point of view, but may be completely off base with Kingslug's point of view, and since it's him and his wife that would be making the possible move, that's the only real opinion that matters in this case



Thank you..thats exactly right.


----------



## Jcb890 (Feb 14, 2018)

I have been looking out West also... Colorado, Oregon, SLC, Montana and Seattle areas.

I have found the job search a bit tough, options aren't seemingly great.  Then again, job market will begin to pick up now with it being February.  November - February the job market usually is more stagnant.

We've also toyed with the idea of quitting our careers, moving and opening up a small restaurant/breakfast place/beer+food.


----------



## AdironRider (Feb 14, 2018)

Regardless of location, more millionaires are made starting their own business than working for someone else. You should do it.


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## cdskier (Feb 14, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Regardless of location, more millionaires are made starting their own business than working for someone else. You should do it.



Probably more bankruptcies too...but of course that's where the saying about "no risk, no reward" comes into play.


----------



## benski (Feb 14, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> You'd be surprised though, the world's changing. Twenty or thirty years ago nearly all the hedge funds were consolidated in a few small areas.  Now they're located all over the dang place. But yeah, there definitely are niche jobs and/or jobs for which you know you could never "get" or replace somewhere else, but that's probably irrespective of any particular given geography


 Especially in SLC which has a lot of banking, and fewer resident competing for it. Also New York is just so expensive, the saving on real estate if you move out west would cover a lot of your lost income. For renters, even Seattle is much cheeper than New York, though I struggle to find statistics that don't do thinks like list Hoboken as separate from NYC or use the Censuses Definition of the NYC Metro area which stretch into PA.


----------



## benski (Feb 14, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> Teton County Wyoming has the highest per capita income of any county in the US from all the hedge fund guys based out here.



"based?" The second home owners in Jackson claim residency in Wyoming, becouse Wyoming gets tax revenue from mines, not residents income. the 2010 census says there per capita income is only $42,224, lower than the us average of $58,030. The IRS gives them a much higher income becouse they count the second home owners unlike the census.


----------



## Edd (Feb 14, 2018)

JimG. said:


> "Aggravation"
> 
> When everyone around you just can't stop bitching about the weather. Jesus suck it up and make the best of it!


Looks like the thread has moved on from the weather. Maybe you could read it instead of exclaiming “Jesus!”


----------



## JimG. (Feb 14, 2018)

Edd said:


> Looks like the thread has moved on from the weather. Maybe you could read it instead of exclaiming “Jesus!”



I read most threads, this one included. Sorry if my use of the name Jesus offended anyone that was certainly unintentional.

Reading about millionaires moving west or having second homes there and about folks who are pissed at eastern weather but who can't pull the trigger and move there whatever the sacrifices is only slightly less aggravating.

Not trying to rag on my buddy Ira so maybe I will stop reading.


----------



## Edd (Feb 14, 2018)

JimG. said:


> I read most threads, this one included. Sorry if my use of the name Jesus offended anyone that was certainly unintentional.
> 
> Reading about millionaires moving west or having second homes there and about folks who are pissed at eastern weather but who can't pull the trigger and move there whatever the sacrifices is only slightly less aggravating.
> 
> Not trying to rag on my buddy Ira so maybe I will stop reading.



Skiing in the NE is tough. Trying to balance work/family crap and still get good days on the hill is a bitch.  


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## JimG. (Feb 14, 2018)

Edd said:


> Skiing in the NE is tough. Trying to balance work/family crap and still get good days on the hill is a bitch.



I can't disagree. But life in general is tough and getting tougher for most every day.

I guess the best way to say it is that if we are so concerned about the skiing weather and forecast that life is better for us here than for most people.


----------



## bdfreetuna (Feb 14, 2018)

Edd said:


> Looks like the thread has moved on from the weather. Maybe you could read it instead of exclaiming “Jesus!”



Thank you Edd I like to take our Savior's name seriously too.

Anyway -- go skiing. Your fault if you don't have fun because you didn't go skiing. I should have considered that more often in December/January when it was cold as hell.

Here's a psycho/spiritual ying yang I'm about to drop on you:

Mindset of abundance = Counting your blessings

Positive mindset FTW


----------



## Not Sure (Feb 14, 2018)

Jcb890 said:


> We've also toyed with the idea of quitting our careers, moving and opening up a small restaurant/breakfast place/beer+food.



A very high risk investment . I started a service business in 2008 ...perfect timing LOL. Of all the clients I have restaurants are the most difficult to get money out of and many have failed . I have ways outside of court getting paid but insist on COD with restaurants . The one exception is a niche type California Burrito place . 


Take the money you would have invested in a Restaurant and buy an income property and get a part time job. There is no 40hr weeks being self employed it follows you home . That being said there is some freedom to cherry pick ski days .....In the words of Carl Spackler "So I've got that going for me which is nice " 

Well wishes !


----------



## deadheadskier (Feb 14, 2018)

bdfreetuna said:


> Thank you Edd I like to take our Savior's name seriously too.



I believe you mean "my"




Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## VTKilarney (Feb 14, 2018)

Getting this thread back on track, rather than engaging in the gratuitous button pushing, the tough thing about running a restaurant or inn is that you will have VERY little time to hit the slopes.  Both of those businesses require a lot of hours to be successful.   Even then they are very tough to make a decent living at.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2018)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> A very high risk investment .



A buddy of mine does commercial real estate loans in Florida.  I believe he once told me something ridiculous like almost 70% of restaurant start-ups fail.    Though he also mentioned that more people that have absolutely no idea how to run a business (or even cook) get into it the restaurant business than you would think.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2018)

benski said:


> Especially in* SLC which has a lot of banking*, and fewer resident competing for it.



Is that right?  I had no idea.  That would certainly be promising.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> A buddy of mine does commercial real estate loans in Florida.  I believe he once told me something ridiculous like almost 70% of restaurant start-ups fail.    Though he also mentioned that more people that have absolutely no idea how to run a business (or even cook) get into it the restaurant business than you would think.



In Vermont, I was told by a loan officer that restaurants and small town general stores are two of their biggest risks.  Both businesses attract owners who have minimal business experience and no experience in the industry.


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## kingslug (Feb 15, 2018)

Interesting evolution of this thread. I guess if and when the time comes I can make the move and the Mrs is good with it..we will. For now I do make the best of it, ski most weekends until its really over, go out west as much as I can. It's just a bit..aggravating..LOL..


----------



## Hawk (Feb 15, 2018)

Life is a series of choices and everyone's path is not defined at the beginning of the journey.  I find it crazy sometimes how some of my long time friends from home are so unhappy.  The constantly lament and b*tch about not being able to ski anymore or having bad conditions when they go.  These are the same people that took on really demanding jobs, a wife that does 0 for work, have multiple kids, put them all in sports that are not conducive to skiing and became mostly sedentary and gave up on working out outdoors.  I mean these are the choices they made.  You really have to own it when you give your life up to your wife and kids.

I will fully confess.  We did not choose to not have kids but it turns out that those were the  cards we were dealt.  Now that I am 50 I can look back and say it was not the worst thing.  It has totally set us up financially not having those huge costs.  When I took my job I slowly but surely made my company cater to my skiing addiction.  I have actually turned down a raise and negotiated an additional week of vacation.  I work my ass off to get things done timely so when I bang out on power days, they can't bitch.  Not saying this is for everyone but something to consider when walking your path.


----------



## John9 (Feb 15, 2018)

80 % of restaurants fail in 5 years. Moving is a good idea, just don't open a restaurant.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

Hawk said:


> I will fully confess.  We did not choose to not have kids but it turns out that those were the  cards we were dealt.  Now that I am 50 I can look back and say it was not the worst thing.  It has totally set us up financially not having those huge costs.



It is insane how expensive children can be.  This is coming from someone who pays two private school tuitions for kids that aren't even in high school yet.


----------



## Hawk (Feb 15, 2018)

I have friends that have succeeded in the restaurant business and I have friends who have failed miserably.  In general I have found that the restaurants that survive in Ski country are not super high end, serve comfort food done well and have a real good atmosphere and caters to the local crowd.  If you are not closing for the summer then you will need to depend on the locals.  In the MRV Local Folks Smoke House, the Mad River Barn and the Hydeaway have mastered this and are thriving.


----------



## Hawk (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> It is insane how expensive children can be.  This is coming from someone who pays two private school tuitions for kids that aren't even in high school yet.



I totally understand.  I have 22 nieces and nephews and my siblings are struggling with the same issues.  I actually think that kids now-a-days are way more expensive than when I was young In the 70's and 80's.  I mean I never had an Iphone, computer, expensive game boys or electronics.  Most kids went to public schools.  Who even heard of a charter school.  There were not nearly the amount of expensive traveling sports teams.  Most of my athletics were town sponsored or very inexpensive like City league base ball, High School Hockey or Track.


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

You are absolutely correct.  Kids are more expensive because society has made them more expensive.  And this is coming from someone who does things as frugally as possible.  I never intended to send my kids to private school, but there are so many kids with issues in our public school that, if you can afford it, it's a no-brainer to send your kids to a private school.  The public school teachers here are very good, but they are dealt a hand that is not at all conducive to a productive learning environment.  Fortunately, the investment has paid off if my children's standardized test scores are to be believed.


----------



## Smellytele (Feb 15, 2018)

Let's get into a debate about troubled kids in private schools vs public schools or just public vs private schools in general. I have seen bad at both (drugs/partying/sex scandals) and outcomes similar at both (colleges excepted to).


----------



## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Let's get into a debate about troubled kids in private schools vs public schools or just public vs private schools in general. I have seen bad at both (drugs/partying/sex scandals) and outcomes similar at both (colleges excepted to).



I don't really care about other schools.  I'm not sure why you would want to make this an omnibus debate.  

When it comes to writing a tuition check, I care only about the schools that my children can attend.  There is a HUGE difference for the positive with the private school compared to their public school option.

I am a product of public schools and would have preferred that my children attend public school.  It just is what it is in my town.


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## Jully (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> I don't really care about other schools.  I'm not sure why you would want to make this an omnibus debate.
> 
> When it comes to writing a tuition check, I care only about the schools that my children can attend.  There is a HUGE difference for the positive with the private school compared to their public school option.
> 
> I am a product of public schools and would have preferred that my children attend public school.  It just is what it is in my town.



Completely agree with this. There are some great public schools out there that produce as good an educational product as any private school, but there are also also some very troubled districts. The decision for private school is highly individual and unique to every family and school.


----------



## jimk (Feb 15, 2018)

Wow, this thread took off.

About SLC smog:  I've spent 8 weeks of time (7 entirely during winter) in SLC burbs since son moved there 3.5 years.  Smog happens, usually in cold, still periods in heart of winter - that's when you go skiing  Ski areas are all above smog level.  Smog is quite variable, one year maybe one day of poor air quality exceeding federal pollution limit, another could see 20+ days.  I have mild asthma and take daily inhaler. Never had a problem out there with that and smog.  I only saw smog inversion once during my 6 or 7 winter visits, for several days in January 2016.  My son, who skis about 75 days a winter since he moving there has never complained about smog and never mentions it unless rarely someone else does first.  Guess he's still in the honeymoon phase with the region?  Me too!

Kids:  Cost of schools and raising kids is near and dear to me.  Sent four kids to parochial schools from K-12 for religious beliefs my wife and I share.  Last one graduated from HS in 2011 (now in law school).  K-8 only about $1k per year equaling about $40k total for all four - a bargain IMHO.  HS cost about $10k per year equaling about $160k total and together costs about $200k total to send four kids K-12.  Was it worth it?  I think so, although the faith beliefs didn't transfer as well as I hoped, but that's more on me.  Hopefully, those values/traditions reappear and help them later in life?  All but one had fairly happy childhood and school years, so I guess it was worth it.   I joke that I missed owning a couple BMW sedans because of it, but fancy cars never meant much to me anyway;  having a condo in ski country might be another story  I figured out some ways to affordably expose them to skiing.  Like religion, skiing transferred to all of them, but in varying degrees of devotion.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 15, 2018)

This thread has moved from making me think of what necessary C.O.L. adjustments I'll need to consider if moving out west, to making me petrified of potentially having children a few years from now. :-o


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## cdskier (Feb 15, 2018)

How the hell did we go from "the weather is frustrating" to "kids cost a lot of money"? Fascinating how threads morph over time.


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## Hawk (Feb 15, 2018)

You just wait.  Next we are going to discuss Vape Pens and which mountain has the most promiscuous women.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> This thread has moved from making me think of what necessary C.O.L. adjustments I'll need to consider if moving out west, to making me petrified of potentially having children a few years from now. :-o



Our mistake was not thinking about school districts when we were childless and purchased our house.  That being said, kids are expensive no matter where they go to school.


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## kingslug (Feb 15, 2018)

Spock would say  "fascinating"...


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## SkiFanE (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> Our mistake was not thinking about school districts when we were childless and purchased our house.  That being said, kids are expensive no matter where they go to school.



Yeah - even if you don't have kids of your own - houses in good school districts hold and increase in value better. We're the "have a crappy small house so can live in good school district" family. Could have a McMansion if I lived two miles away lol. But I grew up in good public school district so I wanted same for my kids. 

Kids are expensive as you as you let them be...  My oldest just graduated college a semester early, zero student debt (no financial aid or scholarships either) - we both worked our butts off and are frugal and found ways around selling her soul to academia. And she just snared a job with a salary nearly double the cost of a year of college.  we couldn't have helped if we weren't frugal ourselves - she learned a lot (i.e. Took 12 credits over summer for $200 to pass 100 level gut classses...saved us thousands $$).  Don't buy into the "must go to pricey college or else" hysteria...and you'll be fine.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 15, 2018)

kingslug said:


> Spock would say  "fascinating"...



The famous Vulcan or the famous childcare pediatrician?


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

SkiFanE said:


> My oldest just graduated college a semester early, zero student debt (no financial aid or scholarships either) -


We have dual citizenship, the other being with an EU country.  My biggest fear is a child saying, "Dad, I'd like to go to college in the United States and not in Europe."


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## Smellytele (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> I don't really care about other schools.  I'm not sure why you would want to make this an omnibus debate.
> 
> When it comes to writing a tuition check, I care only about the schools that my children can attend.  There is a HUGE difference for the positive with the private school compared to their public school option.
> 
> I am a product of public schools and would have preferred that my children attend public school.  It just is what it is in my town.



You brought it up and I really don't care one way or the other. You open the box things will escape.


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## benski (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> We have dual citizenship, the other being with an EU country.  My biggest fear is a child saying, "Dad, I'd like to go to college in the United States and not in Europe."


He should, I was surprised many European universities teach in English, i guess why everyone is fluent in English. I looked up some universities tuition for oversees students, and its still thousands far less than the US even though they charge international students a premium.


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## cdskier (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> He should, I was surprised many European universities teach in English, i guess why everyone is fluent in English. I looked up some universities tuition for oversees students, and its still thousands far less than the US even though they charge international students a premium.



If you have any desire to work for a global company and move up the corporate ladder, English is critical. I work for a global company and have meetings almost every day with people from other countries. The people regularly promoted to higher level positions in other countries almost all speak fluent English (at least within the departments I work with). Sometimes I even think there are people in other countries that speak better English than some of my colleagues here in the US. It really is impressive how skilled in multiple languages many people in other countries are.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> He should, I was surprised many European universities teach in English, i guess why everyone is fluent in English. I looked up some universities tuition for oversees students, and its still thousands far less than the US even though they charge international students a premium.



We wouldn't pay the international student premium.  By law, a university in an EU country can only charge citizens of other EU countries what they charge their own citizens.  In the Netherlands, for example, where they have LOTS of programs in English, tuition is about $2,500 per year for EU citizens.  (It's still only $10,000 or thereabouts for non-EU citizens.)  I just have to hope that they don't get so stoned that they fail their exams or that they spend the tuition savings on hookers.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> You brought it up and I really don't care one way or the other. You open the box things will escape.



I brought up my own personal situation and nothing more.  You tried to make it into some wacky omnibus discussion of private schools versus public schools - as if I would care.  That stuff is better suited for the comments section of the Huffington Post.


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## benski (Feb 15, 2018)

cdskier said:


> If you have any desire to work for a global company and move up the corporate ladder, English is critical. I work for a global company and have meetings almost every day with people from other countries. The people regularly promoted to higher level positions in other countries almost all speak fluent English (at least within the departments I work with). Sometimes I even think there are people in other countries that speak better English than some of my colleagues here in the US. It really is impressive how skilled in multiple languages many people in other countries are.



Its not just your company. Everyone you will meet if you travel in Europe speaks English. You will find the same thing in bars, supermarkets and Ski areas in Europe. I met on person in Paris last semester who did not speak english. I actually had one or two people tell me they struggled in english, then speak better english than the average New York hispanic resident.


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## benski (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> We wouldn't pay the international student premium.  By law, a university in an EU country can only charge citizens of other EU countries what they charge their own citizens.  In the Netherlands, for example, where they have LOTS of programs in English, tuition is about $2,500 per year for EU citizens.  (It's still only $10,000 or thereabouts for non-EU citizens.)  I just have to hope that they don't get so stoned that they fail their exams or that they spend the tuition savings on hookers.



I just spent a semester abroad in the Netherlands. So I know very well. My program was Utrecht school of Economics, they said in orientation the school was 1/4 foreign, and they only had one class in Dutch, which I think was a writing class and only meant for students who wanted to work for Dutch organizations. A lot of those schools have only 3 year bachelors too. I think its from skipping most gen-eds. And outside of the US you can become a lawyer with only 5 years of post high school education.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> Its not just your company. Everyone you will meet if you travel in Europe speaks English.



If a German is doing business with someone from Japan, they are speaking English.  It's amazing how knowledge of English has exploded - much to the chagrin of the French.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> I just spent a semester abroad in the Netherlands. So I know very well. My program was Utrecht school of Economics, they said in orientation the school was 1/4 foreign, and they only had one class in Dutch, which I think was a writing class and only meant for students who wanted to work for Dutch organizations. A lot of those schools have only 3 year bachelors too. I think its from skipping most gen-eds. And outside of the US you can become a lawyer with only 5 years of post high school education.



How would you compare the quality of the education?  That's my major concern.


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## Oz Von Toco (Feb 15, 2018)

So about that weather, looks like a chance for 3-8 inches at mountain creek (I know most of you probably hate that place but it's 45 mins from me) and 1-3 through a lot of ny/NE Saturday into Sunday, looks like rain on Sunday, but Sunday could be better than it's been


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## Oz Von Toco (Feb 15, 2018)

Oz Von Toco said:


> So about that weather, looks like a chance for 3-8 inches at mountain creek (I know most of you probably hate that place but it's 45 mins from me) and 1-3 through a lot of ny/NE Saturday into Sunday, looks like rain on Sunday, but Sunday could be better than it's been
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Sorry, I meant rain in Monday, snow Saturday night into Sunday 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## JimG. (Feb 15, 2018)

Yeah this thread is a chameleon, what next?


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

JimG. said:


> Yeah this thread is a chameleon, what next?



The proven benefits of GMO foods and how they will help the poor.


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## benski (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> How would you compare the quality of the education?  That's my major concern.



U.S. News, and the Times (UK) have a global ranking of universities, but I am not if they account for the difference between 3 year and 4 year bachelors. l Credits are measured differently there but I it seemed like the classes were the same length. You can pull up the curriculum of any major and university online, and check for notable omissions. I just looked at Utrecht university and it appears the economics major is similar to the BS here at Binghamton university but skipping the gen-eds. Your children could go to a community college and get those credits cheap, as a supplement if they wish. 

I am curious how employers think of foreign education? Its got to stand out to employers but do they care?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 15, 2018)

JimG. said:


> Yeah this thread is a chameleon, what next?




I'm hoping some good ethnic recipes eventually get posted.  Authentic lamb vindaloo?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> I am curious how employers think of foreign education? Its got to stand out to employers but *do they care?*



I doubt it.   Unless you graduate from Harvard or Yale a college degree has been completely commoditized.  The difference between putting Exxon or Sunoco gas in your tank.  Just have the scrap of paper that states you put your 4 years in, and once you're in the workforce it's what you learn & achieve from that point forward that counts.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I doubt it.   Unless you graduate from Harvard or Yale a college degree has been completely commoditized.



When I was looking at colleges, my father said to me, "The top 10% matter and the bottom 10% matter.  After that, nobody cares."


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## benski (Feb 15, 2018)

But back to skiing. Some of those rankings put the University of Innsbruck as there Austrias top university. Good luck finding a university with easier access to skiing all, have bus access from the city and are on one pass.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> But back to skiing. Some of those rankings put the University of Innsbruck as there Austrias top university. Good luck finding a university with easier access to skiing all, have bus access from the city and are on one pass.



Sadly, they don't appear to have any undergraduate programs taught in English.  They do have a lot of graduate programs, though.


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## JimG. (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> I am curious how employers think of foreign education? Its got to stand out to employers but do they care?



My father graduated from a Swiss medical school (University of Bern) and had a long and distinguished career. That said, in those days doctors opened private practices so he didn't have an employer until he sold his practice late in his career.

I would guess it depends on your field of study. I would think multinationals would favorably view a new employee with an international education. Foreign service professions too.


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## benski (Feb 15, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I doubt it.   Unless you graduate from Harvard or Yale a college degree has been completely commoditized.  The difference between putting Exxon or Sunoco gas in your tank.  Just have the scrap of paper that states you put your 4 years in, and once you're in the workforce it's what you learn & achieve from that point forward that counts.



I am a junior in college, so you are one step ahead of me. 

The problem with ranking colleges is the big rankings, are not great at measuring the quality. Its quite apparent as a student that schools are generally not on a mission to improve there education. The fact that colleges higher Chinese professors who are not proficient in english to teach lecture is awful and demonstrates there lack of caring about teaching quality but strong stress on making the look good to get more applicants despite having no trouble filling seats.


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## Smellytele (Feb 15, 2018)

benski said:


> I am a junior in college, so you are one step ahead of me.
> 
> The problem with ranking colleges is the big rankings, are not great at measuring the quality. Its quite apparent as a student that schools are generally not on a mission to improve there education. The fact that colleges higher Chinese professors who are not proficient in english to teach lecture is awful and demonstrates there lack of caring about teaching quality but strong stress on making the look good to get more applicants despite having no trouble filling seats.



.
Hopefully you write and proofread better in school than you do on the interwebs


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## Not Sure (Feb 15, 2018)

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article200169249.html

Another subject change


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## Domeskier (Feb 15, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> .
> Hopefully you write and proofread better in school than you do on the interwebs



Its the fault of those Chinese professors they higher their!


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## machski (Feb 15, 2018)

VTKilarney said:


> We have dual citizenship, the other being with an EU country.  My biggest fear is a child saying, "Dad, I'd like to go to college in the United States and not in Europe."


Make it an incentive to go to Europe.  I have friends who are dual citizenship with Canada.  They told their kids a car awaited if they chose Canada for school over US.

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## benski (Feb 16, 2018)

The interesting thing about being a New Yorker going to school with Euros an Ausies in Europe, is they think New York is really cool, which can be a plus with some people, but I sometimes got the feeling people thought it was weird that I left New York.


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## Smellytele (Feb 16, 2018)

benski said:


> The interesting thing about being a New Yorker going to school with Euros an Ausies in Europe, is they think New York is really cool, which can be a plus with some people, but I sometimes got the feeling people thought it was weird that I left New York.



Binghamton is not New York. More like Scranton.


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## benski (Feb 16, 2018)

I grew up in the suburbs. I tell people I am from New York.


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## kingslug (Feb 16, 2018)

I live in CT..I tell people I'm from NY.


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## Smellytele (Feb 16, 2018)

kingslug said:


> I live in CT..I tell people I'm from NY.



And your location says Long Island


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## Glenn (Feb 16, 2018)

When I'm in Vermont, I try not to tell people I'm from Connecticut.


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## JimG. (Feb 16, 2018)

I'm from NY and proud of it.

And no I don't pee on toilet seats or the floor.


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## andrec10 (Feb 16, 2018)

JimG. said:


> I'm from NY and proud of it.
> 
> And no I don't pee on toilet seats or the floor.


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## cdskier (Feb 16, 2018)

Doesn't bother me to tell people I'm from NJ when I'm in VT.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 16, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Doesn't bother me to tell people I'm from NJ when I'm in VT.



Why would it?   People dont like to tell people from XYZ states that they're from ABC states?  This is new to me.


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## cdskier (Feb 16, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Why would it?   People dont like to tell people from XYZ states that they're from ABC states?  This is new to me.



My comment was mostly in response to Glenn's comment about not telling people he's from CT when he's in VT. I agree with you. If people have a problem with where I'm from, that's their problem, not mine.


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## Smellytele (Feb 16, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Doesn't bother me to tell people I'm from NJ when I'm in VT.



They can tell.


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## cdskier (Feb 16, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> They can tell.



Hah...if they talk to me long enough I'm sure they could! Surprised the hell out of me back in college in Rochester, NY when people told me I had a Jersey accent! To me it was normal and it never dawned on me that it was something people elsewhere could notice.


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## Domeskier (Feb 16, 2018)

I get a little embarrassed when people find out how far I've come to ski Sundown.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 16, 2018)

JimG. said:


> I'm from NY and proud of it.
> 
> And no I don't pee on toilet seats or the floor.



You didn't say you were Canadian so I would assume you don't.


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## kingslug (Feb 16, 2018)

Tried to change my profile location..wouldnt let me. Besides i spent 48 years on l island..so that's whete im from. And after talking to me for a few seconds anyone might know that..except if im way north and west..where some people never heard of nor care where NY is..
Question...where are you from..answer..where do you think...oh..NY...lol


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## Edd (Feb 16, 2018)

We were at Mt Snow on the bubble chair a couple of weeks back. The bubble was down and a couple were riding with us, about 60 years old. The woman called a friend using speakerphone mode and had a 3 minute conversation about meeting the friend somewhere on Ridge. It really felt like an episode of Real Housewives/New Jersey, which I’m sad to say I’m familiar with because my wife watches it. 


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## kingslug (Feb 16, 2018)

Back to aggravation..friggin 60 foot tree just landed in my driveway.ripped the powerlines off the house..crushed the fence..just missed the house..guess ill be heading up sunday morning now.....awesome


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## Glenn (Feb 17, 2018)

kingslug said:


> Back to aggravation..friggin 60 foot tree just landed in my driveway.ripped the powerlines off the house..crushed the fence..just missed the house..guess ill be heading up sunday morning now.....awesome



If you were closer, I'd swing by with my chainsaw and harvest some firewood. ; ) Seriously, hope you get it sorted out.


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## kingslug (Feb 17, 2018)

Power company chopped some of it out of the drivway..still a huge piece across the now squashed fence..electricians here..guess ill drive to stowe later for the escapades..


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## Scruffy (Feb 17, 2018)

JimG. said:


> I'm from NY and proud of it.
> 
> *And no I don't pee on toilet seats *or the floor.



Really, WTF is that all about? Don't these assh@les who piss on toilet seats ever have to drop a deuce? Yeah, you could say that they might just squat and not sit, but really?? WTF, why? It's sick; learn some manners. 

And while I'm at the subject of public pissing, WTF is with all these pee shy people these days? Everywhere you go these days in public Men's rooms guys are going into the stalls and standing there pissing while the urinals are empty? I can see if you have a medical issue, but really there can't be that many with a urostomy. Man up.


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## Jully (Feb 17, 2018)

HAHAHA man up about how you pee? That's the funniest thing I've heard in weeks. What on earth is MANLY about a public restroom or a urinal? 

Why do you even care how people pee? I can see if there are huge lines for the stalls, but I see that so incredibly rarely and it sure isn't because the stalls are full of people peeing, so why do you care?


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## Scruffy (Feb 18, 2018)

HAHA Glad I made you smile. :smile: It was meant to come off as a joke that stings a little with the truth.

Seriously, I don't care how or where they pee, except that too many are peeing all over the toilet seats when the go into the stalls just to pee because their too shy to stand at the urinal, that pisses me off when I need a stall. Apparently, their mamas didn't teach them how to use the restroom or their just plain rude.


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## Jully (Feb 18, 2018)

Scruffy said:


> HAHA Glad I made you smile. :smile: It was meant to come off as a joke that stings a little with the truth.
> 
> Seriously, I don't care how or where they pee, except that too many are peeing all over the toilet seats when the go into the stalls just to pee because their too shy to stand at the urinal, that pisses me off when I need a stall. Apparently, their mamas didn't teach them how to use the restroom or their just plain rude.



Fair points. Not much is worse in a public restroom than seeing a pre soaked toilet seat!


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## cdskier (Feb 18, 2018)

Jully said:


> Fair points. Not much is worse in a public restroom than seeing a pre soaked toilet seat!



Seriously that is absolutely disgusting. No idea what is wrong with people. If you use the stall, it really isn't difficult to lift the seat up first. At work I've also seen numerous times when on top of the urinal is covered in pee. Not quite sure how someone's aim is so bad that they can't even get the pee INSIDE a urinal...


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## AdironRider (Feb 18, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Seriously that is absolutely disgusting. No idea what is wrong with people. If you use the stall, it really isn't difficult to lift the seat up first. At work I've also seen numerous times when on top of the urinal is covered in pee. Not quite sure how someone's aim is so bad that they can't even get the pee INSIDE a urinal...




I would argue if you are relegated to pooping in a public bathroom, you fucked up planning your day.


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## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Seriously that is absolutely disgusting. No idea what is wrong with people. If you use the stall, it really isn't difficult to lift the seat up first. At work I've also seen numerous times when on top of the urinal is covered in pee. Not quite sure how someone's aim is so bad that they can't even get the pee INSIDE a urinal...



Peeing while erect?


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## JimG. (Feb 18, 2018)

Jully said:


> Fair points. Not much is worse in a public restroom than seeing a pre soaked toilet seat!



It happens shockingly frequently. So bad at Hunter some of the stall dividers are rusting out near the toilets.

I mean, are you kidding me? That's not just bad aim.


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## bdfreetuna (Feb 18, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> I would argue if you are relegated to pooping in a public bathroom, you fucked up planning your day.



Were there too many people in the woods?


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## MEtoVTSkier (Feb 18, 2018)

AdironRider said:


> I would argue if you are relegated to pooping in a public bathroom, you fucked up planning your day.



Mexican for supper last night?! :lol:


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## kingslug (Feb 18, 2018)

Austria..glacier..bathroom...upper decker...uggg....shieshouse for sure...


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