# Who Has Bought Their 20/21 Pass Already?



## Zermatt (Apr 9, 2020)

Just wondering who has purchased their season pass (or multi pass) for next season already?

If you have not, would you have purchased it by this point last season?  Maybe not date specific, but by the first price increase date.

I have NOT purchased my Ikon Pass yet and last year I had already purchased my 19/20 passes by this date.

Honestly, I need more guidance from Ikon and their contingency plans....they have been absolutely silent.  I already have the money set aside and it's not huge, but I still don't want to rip up $2,000 and toss it in the trash.

Also, if you buy a pass and you think they'll just refund the money if there is no season you are on a different planet.  It doesn't work like that.  Even if they explicitly say they will refund the money....it still doesn't work like that. Ski resorts can say whatever they want but when they file bankruptcy you are at the back of the line for getting your money back.


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## MikeDeJ (Apr 9, 2020)

I have not bought my pass and usually buy around now.  I had the Epic last year, Peak before that.  My reasons are a few, currently an unemployed chef our banquet business could be up in the air for a while, so debating to just buy the Epic Northeast if funds get tight and I am not going to go west.  Do just buy a Epic mid-week? that is when I mostly ski to save further? Also my wife wants a pass, first time ever so I have to throw that into the mix.  Leaning for the Epic Northeast.  No ski season really has not entered into the equation yet, but with that the Northeast pass does sound a little better in the worst case.

MikeD


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## VTKilarney (Apr 9, 2020)

I have not purchased yet.  I am in an industry that has been clobbered by the shutdown.  My company had massive layoffs.  The good news is that my job is safe.  The bad news is that I took a pay cut.  Burke has been run extremely well under receivership, but it’s very possible that nobody will want to purchase it - especially now.

I am taking a wait and see approach.


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## RichT (Apr 9, 2020)

Got mine, Military pass GREAT DEAL!!


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## Smellytele (Apr 9, 2020)

I have not and still thinking what to get. Ikon? Epic? Northeast Epic? Mountain Collective with an Indy pass? I am still working (Heathcare industry) as is my wife (State of NH) so at this moment income isn't an issue. I wanted to take a trip or 2 out west next season but not sure wtf is going to be happening by then. I am an optimist by still cautious about the whole situation.


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## andrec10 (Apr 9, 2020)

Epic Local with the 49$ down.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 9, 2020)

I have not purchased Epic Northeast yet.  I normally would have by now. 

The bigger spend I've held off on is a seasonal rental in Bartlett.  I was just about to pull the trigger on that in early March, but saw things getting weird and decided to hold off.  Now I'm taking a wait and see approach.  With the rise of AirBnB and VRBO, the inventory of seasonal rentals has dropped and the prices have gone up.  I'm curious to see if some owners switch back to the more conservative seasonal rental model for next year and perhaps the added inventory brings the prices down a bit.

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## tumbler (Apr 9, 2020)

We bought our Ikons.  Would normally buy now anyway


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## NYDB (Apr 9, 2020)

As soon as magic passes go on sale I will be buying passes for the whole family as usual and 4 packs for a few nieces as soon as they are offered.  Will buy the full Ikon Pass again but will wait until the day before the discount expires to purchase.  Like others, I am afraid of not being able to go out west next year, so anticipating not getting full value out of them but I prefer to be an optometrist


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## Edd (Apr 9, 2020)

Bought a Cranmore/BW Pass in early March. Will be buying an Epic Military once things clarify more. 


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## machski (Apr 9, 2020)

We bought our Platinum New England passes before the resort shutdowns during the normal 5 day flash sale window.  Always buy then to save a few bucks.  Had I known they were extending that til the end of April, would have waited this year.  Regardless, for now both our jobs are good and wife's should be good (teacher).

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## mbedle (Apr 9, 2020)

Vail deffered my my auto-renew deposit on the pass. Doesn't look like it will happen until May.


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## asnowmobiler (Apr 9, 2020)

Typically bought and payed for by now but I'm going to hold off for a while to see how this all plays out.
I was/am planning on Epic East and joining a Ski Club in Vermont.


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## MG Skier (Apr 9, 2020)

I will buy my Magic pass when they go on sale. I am staying with the road less travelled and supporting the independent mountain that I love skiing! Lets hope at is a very snowy winter and all of the ski mountains can keep on keepin' on!


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## Tonyr (Apr 9, 2020)

I bought the family Epic passes for next year about a week before everything shut down. I'm curious to see how much of a discount they'll give out now but either way I'm locked in.


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## Rowsdower (Apr 9, 2020)

Is there any competing pass to Epic with a local mountain the Poconos?

Otherwise I'll have to go with Epic but I'm hoping we get a discount.


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## Cobbold (Apr 9, 2020)

Had the epic local for this year, got out west twice this year, was going to purchase the full epic, to ski in Italy, not sure going to Milan next winter is a smart move, waiting to see if vail sweetens the pot, anyone see the season pass prices for ragged Mtn?   Waiting on the situation, full epic or local?  If I was retired, I would have both ikon and epic.


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## jimk (Apr 9, 2020)

My resort hasn't put them on sale yet, but they've posted some teaser info and I believe best prices will end by June 1.  Will definitely get something by then, but need to review details when they come out.

Glad the overtly political stuff was terminated on AZ.  It was therapeutic for a while, but then got tedious and divisive to the community.


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## drjeff (Apr 9, 2020)

I'm holding off until they send out the email with "best pricing ends by such and such a date" 

One has to think that with both the folks at EPIC and IKON/Alterra furloughed right now, and given the state of things, that nothing definitive with early pricing deadlines is going to happen in the immediate future


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## cdskier (Apr 9, 2020)

I haven't yet, but unless Sugarbush extends the deadline to use the discount that was given to existing passholders towards next year's Ikon pass, then I'll be buying it in the next week or so. Some years I would have bought it by now, others I wouldn't have. It all depends on when the first price increase deadline is. I'm a bit of a procrastinator and usually wait until closer to the deadline.


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## Bumpsis (Apr 9, 2020)

Does anyone know the price increase deadline for IKON pass? I just can't find that info on their site. I'm tempted to take advantage of the renewal rate but it would be good to know how long I have before the price goes up.


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## Cobbold (Apr 9, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> Does anyone know the price increase deadline for IKON pass? I just can't find that info on their site. I'm tempted to take advantage of the renewal rate but it would be good to know how long I have before the price goes up.



I think they are on hold


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## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2020)

No mega passes for us, but bought our Ragged passes in March before the season was over.


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## Pez (Apr 9, 2020)

I like this thread.

Usually I do Blandford but that's not happening.  Butternut doing a discount for Blandford refugees... 249 for the season pass which is really a good deal.  Also thinking about the Berkshire East / Catamount pass.  

Everything is so up in the air right now.  I think I'm just going to hold tight for a while and see what happens.


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## Cobbold (Apr 9, 2020)

Isn’t that a 299 pass (ragged Mtn)that have  other mtns on it, a couple out west?


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## Cobbold (Apr 9, 2020)

You think Berkshire East/catamount will buy blandford?  Wonder if the mega passes and the new ownership of catamount is cutting into butternut skier visits?


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## JimG. (Apr 9, 2020)

My first deadline is 6/11 for the Killington 365 pass with the included Ikon base pass. Gonna sit back and wait to see what happens like I usually do anyway.

The deadline for my NYS 3 in 1 is 8/12. 

Really glad I have time to sit back and see what happens. I would not want to have to put down big bucks for a pass and then have the season cancelled (which I do not think will happen) because like someone mentioned before good luck trying to claw back that money via refund. Just ask anyone who is currently trying to get an airline refund for cancelled flights. Even though the law in most places is that cancelled flight = refund.


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## Pez (Apr 9, 2020)

"You think Berkshire East/catamount will buy blandford? Wonder if the mega passes and the new ownership of catamount is cutting into butternut skier visits? "


I don't know.  Maybe in the future?  I can't see them spending the money on it this year.  With the economy in a tail spin it wouldn't seem very prudent.

I didn't ski butternut weekends this past year so it's hard to tell if catamount is cutting into butternut.


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## Killingtime (Apr 9, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> You think Berkshire East/catamount will buy blandford?  Wonder if the mega passes and the new ownership of catamount is cutting into butternut skier visits?



I don't they will buy Blandford. They have pumped a lot of money into fixing up Catamount with the new lodge and all. Place looks great but there's still more work to be done. On top of that coming off of one of the strangest/worst seasons I can remember. I can't see them taking on another project. I just hope BE and Catamount are back on the Indy Pass next year. Had a blast at both of them.


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## Bumpsis (Apr 9, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> Does anyone know the price increase deadline for IKON pass? I just can't find that info on their site. I'm tempted to take advantage of the renewal rate but it would be good to know how long I have before the price goes up.



OK, got my answer, had to communicate with IKON to get it:
_"Renewal discount ends, payment plan offer ends, and prices go up on April 22, 2020".

_


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## Edd (Apr 9, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> OK, got my answer, had to communicate with IKON to get it:
> _"Renewal discount ends, payment plan offer ends, and prices go up on April 22, 2020".
> 
> _



That sounds a bit aggressive, given the circumstances. I’d back the idea of extending these normal deadlines through May 31st, anyway.


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## cdskier (Apr 9, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> OK, got my answer, had to communicate with IKON to get it:
> _"Renewal discount ends, payment plan offer ends, and prices go up on April 22, 2020".
> 
> _



Interesting. That was the original deadline. Kind of odd that they removed all mention of that from their website though... If it is still the deadline, why make it harder to find?


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## Zermatt (Apr 9, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> OK, got my answer, had to communicate with IKON to get it:
> _"Renewal discount ends, payment plan offer ends, and prices go up on April 22, 2020".
> 
> _



I believe they told you that, but I call BS (they don't know).  They haven't posted on facebook or instagram  since March 15th.  No emails, nothing. They're running around with their heads cut off and likely running at a fraction of pass sales compared to last season at this time.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 9, 2020)

billo said:


> Just wondering who has purchased their season pass (or multi pass) for next season already?
> 
> If you have not, would you have purchased it by this point last season?  Maybe not date specific, but by the first price increase date.
> 
> ...



Very good question.  

Normally, night ski season at Brighton would be winding down right now and they would be pitching renewals now.  Alta/Snowbird would still be in full swing, but they would be starting the discussion.  Snowbird last month did announce one pass product, but has not pushed the subject since closing.  They also said that existing passholders would be getting something for their loyalty, especially during these uncertain times.  

So no, we have not purchased yet.  Mainly because they are not pushing, but also because, as I have discussed here, we just don't know what we are doing next year.  My wife went to the darkside with IKON and only got three days on that pass.  She's not the deciding factor.  For all my recent bitching, I will probably just stay at Snowbird and just keep my Alta-Bird pass.  :lol:


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## Bumpsis (Apr 9, 2020)

billo said:


> I believe they told you that, but I call BS (they don't know).  They haven't posted on instagram in over 3 weeks.  No emails, nothing. They're running around with their heads cut off and likely running at a fraction of pass sales compared to last season at this time.


Quite possibly you are right. I'm sure that their sales must be down. Would you know what their price increases schedule was last year?

Off the top of my head I sort of recall that their first increase from the best (early purchase) price was in June?? I'm really not sure though.
If they would keep to the schedule, it may easier to make the purchase decision.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 9, 2020)

Any ski area that has a deadline in April is going to regret it.  

24% of Vermont's workforce is laid off right now.  Vermont is a service economy state, but other states can't be a whole lot better.


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## medfordmike (Apr 9, 2020)

Last two years had the Epic Local plus a Pico pass. I was leaning against Epic next year and with all that is going on will let it go.  I did renew my Pico pass the last day they were open since I was skiing and had a feeling the season was ending and wanted to have something positive.  It is not an expensive pass and while anything can happen if they decided to not open Pico due to awful economic circumstances than I am falling back on they would give access to Killington at pre June pass prices etc.  I think that is unlikely.  In September though if the season looks like a go I will pick up and Indy pass to pair with Pico.


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## JimG. (Apr 9, 2020)

VTKilarney said:


> Any ski area that has a deadline in April is going to regret it.



Big time.


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## Newpylong (Apr 9, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> Isn’t that a 299 pass (ragged Mtn)that have  other mtns on it, a couple out west?



1 out west, 2 Canada, one Maryland and one Virginia and then some discounts at 4 others in New England.


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## prsboogie (Apr 9, 2020)

I bought my 2 NE Epic passes and the 2 kids local passes the day after they went on sale. The kids were 49 down plus 17 for insurance but the NE pass didn't have the 49 dollar option. So I'm into them for 1400 with pass insurance.  We will see what happens!

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## Cobbold (Apr 9, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> 1 out west, 2 Canada, one Maryland and one Virginia and then some discounts at 4 others in New England.



That’s quite a deal, what are the 4 mtns in New England?  Did you use to ski at Brodie? Wonder if vail reduces their northeast pass  price to be more competitive with the ragged mtn pass?


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## machski (Apr 9, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> That’s quite a deal, what are the 4 mtns in New England?  Did you use to ski at Brodie? Wonder if vail reduces their northeast pass  price to be more competitive with the ragged mtn pass?


Here you go, not free days at the 4 NE mountains so doubt Vail even considers this as comp.

Sister Resort Reciprocal Program
When you purchase your Mission: Affordable Season Pass to Ragged Mountain Resort, you are also gaining access to all Pacific Group Resorts across North America.

UNLIMITED access at Powderhorn Resort in Colorado

Unlimited access at Wisp Resort in Maryland

Access to Wintergreen Resort in Virginia any day the resort is open during the 2020-21 season, however, from December 26 - 31, 2020 and Saturdays in January and February, there will be a $39 skier density demand charged assessed

Access to Mt Washington Alpine Resort in British Columbia any day the resort is open during the 2020-21 season.  The first 7 days are free, and there will be a CA$49 (about US$35) usage fee for any additional days. 

New England Resort Reciprocal Program

Jay Peak (Jay, VT): 50% OFF Midweek and 25% OFF Weekends (non-holiday)

Pats Peak (Henniker, NH): 50% OFF Midweek and 25% OFF Weekends (non-holiday)

Ski Butternut (Great Barrington, MA): 50% OFF Midweek and 25% OFF Weekends (non-holiday)

Whaleback (Enfield, NH): 50% OFF Midweek and 25% OFF Weekends (non-holiday)

Mountain Biking at Highland Mountain Bike Park

Located in Northfield, NH (Exit 19 off of I-93)

50% off Monday – Friday Day Tickets, 25% off Saturday and Sunday Day Tickets at window rate. Not valid for online purchases. 

1-time $109 (reg $129) Find Your Ride Program session. This learn-to program is the best way to try the sport of downhill mountain biking. Advanced Registration Required

To schedule your session email FYRide@highlandmountain.com or call (603) 286–7677

Must show receipt of 2019-20 Ragged Mountain Resort season pass and a Valid ID

Before going to Highland, go to their website and read their strict waiver policy. This policy is especially important for children under the age of 18.



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## nhskier1969 (Apr 10, 2020)

I bet they hold off their price increase.  The Ski Resort are getting crushed right now.  I would like to know how many season passes they have sold this year vs. last year during the same period.   I was about to do my seasonal rental at Sugarbush, I don't know if I will have the money to do it now.  I differently would say over half the skiers out their are in the same boat.  I bet the resorts will keep their pass discounts thru the summer.  It will take at least that much time for all of us to catch up.


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## Zermatt (Apr 10, 2020)

As a PSA I'll say it again....Pass insurance will not protect you if mountains do not open or there is no ski season.


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## ERJ-145CA (Apr 10, 2020)

I bought my pass for Mountain Creek, my local area, in early February when they went on sale for $229.   I also bought Mount Peter passes for me and my family when they went on sale in early March. $239 for my wife and I and $209 for my daughter.

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## prsboogie (Apr 10, 2020)

billo said:


> As a PSA I'll say it again....Pass insurance will not protect you if mountains do not open or there is no ski season.


Exactly why do you believe this?

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## icecoast1 (Apr 10, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Exactly why do you believe this?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



That would be pretty easy to write into the fine print of the insurance policy.  Although the idea of not having lift serviced skiing next winter is pretty crazy at this point


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## prsboogie (Apr 10, 2020)

From the Vail insurance carrier - line D

PERILS INSURED AGAINST: Subject to the Exclusions and Coverage Limits, the Insured has coverage against Loss of use of your Season Ski Pass if caused by any one of the following 
unforeseen perils occurring after the effective date of coverage: 
a) Sickness, Injury or death of you or a Family Member; 
b) You have a Pregnancy or Childbirth verified by medical records; 
coverage is included for pregnant Season Ski Pass Holder’s 
spouse or domestic partner and minor child; 
c) Your Primary Residence being made Uninhabitable by Natural 
Disaster; 
d) The Destination Resort closes indefinitely due to a Natural Disaster 
(this coverage does not apply if you reside in a state with more 
than one Destination Resort and at least one of the other 
Destination Resorts is operating); 
e) You are subpoenaed, required to serve on a jury, hijacked, 
quarantined or your travel visa is denied; 
f) You are called to military service; your military leave is revoked; 
you are deployed or you are reassigned;

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## cdskier (Apr 10, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Exactly why do you believe this?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



He's absolutely right that the insurance itself wouldn't cover it. It is stated in their exclusions for Ikon's insurance company at least if my interpretation is correct:


> SECTION III-POLICY LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS
> ....
> 8.Bankruptcy or Default or failure to supply services by a Travel Supplier





> “Travel Supplier” means any entity or organization that coordinates or supplies the Season Pass for You.



That said, if there was legitimately no season at all, I find it rather hard to believe all the ski resorts would tell all the people that bought passes to simply fuck off unless they outright go bankrupt. I wouldn't expect them to give money back, but I would expect them to basically apply your purchase to the following season.

Of course if things are so bad that there's no ski season next year, then we have much bigger problems than a season pass purchase and whether you get your money back or not.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 10, 2020)

noun
plural noun: natural disasters
a natural event such as a flood, earthquake, or hurricane that causes great damage or loss of life.
"the number of people suffering food crises as a result of natural disasters has tripled in the last thirty years"


Does a natural disaster include genetically engineered viruses?  That policy could also easily be re written


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## prsboogie (Apr 10, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> noun
> plural noun: natural disasters
> a natural event such as a flood, earthquake, or hurricane that causes great damage or loss of life.
> "the number of people suffering food crises as a result of natural disasters has tripled in the last thirty years"
> ...


Until you have actual proof this is man-made please keep your paranoid accusations to your self. 

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## cdskier (Apr 10, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> noun
> plural noun: natural disasters
> a natural event such as a flood, earthquake, or hurricane that causes great damage or loss of life.
> "the number of people suffering food crises as a result of natural disasters has tripled in the last thirty years"
> ...



For Epic, here's the definition of Natural Disaster that is explicitly listed in the terms of the insurance:


> NATURAL DISASTER – means a flood, hurricane, tornado, earthquake, fire, wildfire, volcanic eruption, or blizzard that is due to natural causes



So no coverage for a virus in that clause at least.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 10, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> Until you have actual proof this is man-made please keep your paranoid accusations to your self.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Ok, but the definition of natural disaster still does not mention viruses in any form


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## prsboogie (Apr 10, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Ok, but the definition of natural disaster still does not mention viruses in any form


Just for arguments sake it doesn't mention if they can't open they do not have to refund monies paid for services that cannot be rendered. 

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## BenedictGomez (Apr 10, 2020)

cdskier said:


> *I wouldn't expect them to give money back, but I would expect them to basically apply your purchase to the following season.*



That's how I'd war-game it as well.  They hold the cash & use it, and issue you the following year's pass.  If you move you're S.O.L.

Alternatively, I can also see some resorts issue credit against something low margin, specifically, food & beverage, instead of letting you roll it into a season pass.

Oh course, all of this speculation is completely unnecessary, because talk of no 2020-2021 season is nuts.


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## Edd (Apr 10, 2020)

cdskier said:


> He's absolutely right that the insurance itself wouldn't cover it. It is stated in their exclusions for Ikon's insurance company at least if my interpretation is correct:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’d think they’d have to refund. The odds of no ski season next year is near zero, though.


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## RichT (Apr 10, 2020)

Let's put it this way! 
If there isn't a ski season next year.........that will be one of the LEAST of our problems!!!


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## VTKilarney (Apr 10, 2020)

The Governor of Illinois has just told organizers of summer festivals that they should cancel.  (He said it a little more artfully, but his message was clear.)

This lockdown will not end instantly.  Large gatherings are going to be prohibited for quite some time.  

The ski season will depend on how bad the second and third waves are in the fall and winter.  My money is on a ski season happening, but it is not a sure thing.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 10, 2020)

VTKilarney said:


> The Governor of Illinois has just told organizers of summer festivals that they should cancel.  (He said it a little more artfully, but his message was clear.)
> 
> This lockdown will not end instantly.  Large gatherings are going to be prohibited for quite some time.
> 
> The ski season will depend on how bad the second and third waves are in the fall and winter.  My money is on a ski season happening, but it is not a sure thing.




I could see lodge operations/large  scheduled events at mountains getting effected in the short term, but they should at the very least still be able to run the lifts.


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## p_levert (Apr 10, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> I could see lodge operations/large  scheduled events at mountains getting effected in the short term, but they should at the very least still be able to run the lifts.



At the bitter end of the CO season, they were making people ride single on chairlifts unless they were in the same ski group.  Conceivably you could see a bunch of portable toilets to solve the bathroom proximity problem.  These are possible options to keep social distance.

But, really, the biggest danger is a blind shutdown by a governor who simply states that these are large gatherings, so prohibited.  But I don't see this happening in 20/21, although it can't be 100% excluded.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 10, 2020)

Maybe a good time to pick up a small RV. Tailgate in style and avoid the lodge!

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## machski (Apr 10, 2020)

VTKilarney said:


> The Governor of Illinois has just told organizers of summer festivals that they should cancel.  (He said it a little more artfully, but his message was clear.)
> 
> This lockdown will not end instantly.  Large gatherings are going to be prohibited for quite some time.
> 
> The ski season will depend on how bad the second and third waves are in the fall and winter.  My money is on a ski season happening, but it is not a sure thing.


Why do people seemt o think a second wave will wait til the fall?  This isn't flu, it is likely not seasonal.  If there is to be a second wave, it will hit mid summer or so, about 2-3 weeks after the majority of the country tries to come out of its pandemic hibernation.  It won't take until fall for round 2 to be realized.

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## ski&soccermom (Apr 10, 2020)

We normally purchase around now, and do plan to get Epic passes for next year, but are waiting on Vail to announce whether they are giving a discount to those renewing passes.


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## andrec10 (Apr 10, 2020)

ski&soccermom said:


> We normally purchase around now, and do plan to get Epic passes for next year, but are waiting on Vail to announce whether they are giving a discount to those renewing passes.


A discount from Vail.....Right. When pigs fly.


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## gladerider (Apr 10, 2020)

would have bought by now but haven't.
i think i lost money on my ikon investment this year. we bought 4.

i will probably wait until things settle down. have no problem conserving cash for now. unless some people head back to work soon, i can see more people losing jobs and i can be one of them, who knows.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 10, 2020)

andrec10 said:


> A discount from Vail.....Right. When pigs fly.



My thoughts exactly.  Vail will tell you that EPIC is already discounted....


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 10, 2020)

machski said:


> Why do people seemt o think a second wave will wait til the fall?  This isn't flu, it is likely not seasonal.



It actually is a viral infection like a flu, and it is likely to behave with a similar strong pattern of seasonality, especially in subsequent years when populace immunity is built up.  But it should demonstrate some seasonality even this year for all the typical reasons.   Nobody knows of course, but it's strongly suspected.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 10, 2020)

andrec10 said:


> A discount from Vail.....Right. When pigs fly.



True, but if it's ever going to happen, it will be now.


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## machski (Apr 11, 2020)

uphillklimber said:


> Got my Boyne pass as soon as it went on sale, cheapest price of the spring for next season.


Normally, yes and I did the same.  This year that cheapest price is still available til the end of April at least.

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## thetrailboss (Apr 11, 2020)

machski said:


> Normally, yes and I did the same.  This year that cheapest price is still available til the end of April at least.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app



Exactly.  I think that a lot of folks are going to see pass prices stay low for a while.  We're apparently on our way to 15% unemployment nationally.


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## Bandit2941 (Apr 12, 2020)

I don’t buy any pass until just before the first price increase. Basically two reasons, one I see no reason for them to hold my money as an interest free loan and two if I got hurt and couldn’t ski I wouldn’t need to fight for a refund.

This year I had orda ski3 and ikon base. Ended up using the ikon 14 days between last spring, July 4 at mammoth, and this year. So got my money’s worth there, although we should be flying home today after a week in aspen.

Next year we’re looking at getting orda ski3 and epic local. Planning on spring break in Tahoe as long as skiing is good and a mid winter trip to somewhere in CO. Plus we can go to Hunter.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 12, 2020)

On my side, I'm definite as to Brighton Night Pass, Ski Discovery (Montana) Five Pack.  Likely Alta/Bird renewal.

I'm in no hurry this spring.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 12, 2020)

Bandit2941 said:


> *I don’t buy any pass until just before the first price increase. Basically two reasons, one I see no reason for them to hold my money as an interest free loan and two if I got hurt and couldn’t ski I wouldn’t need to fight for a refund.*



Sage advice.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 13, 2020)

Bandit2941 said:


> I don’t buy any pass until just before the first price increase. Basically two reasons, one I see no reason for them to hold my money as an interest free loan and two if I got hurt and couldn’t ski I wouldn’t need to fight for a refund.
> 
> This year I had orda ski3 and ikon base. Ended up using the ikon 14 days between last spring, July 4 at mammoth, and this year. So got my money’s worth there, although we should be flying home today after a week in aspen.
> 
> Next year we’re looking at getting orda ski3 and epic local. Planning on spring break in Tahoe as long as skiing is good and a mid winter trip to somewhere in CO. Plus we can go to Hunter.


FYI to all - if you injure yourself and don't have the injury protection plan, you're SOL.


----------



## machski (Apr 13, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> FYI to all - if you injure yourself and don't have the injury protection plan, you're SOL.


Depends which pass and where you buy.  If you get injured and can't ski, SR will usually push some or all of the value of you pass to the next season (depending when you injure yourself).  So not you money back, but that is something without needing pass insurance.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Jcb890 (Apr 13, 2020)

machski said:


> Depends which pass and where you buy.  If you get injured and can't ski, SR will usually push some or all of the value of you pass to the next season (depending when you injure yourself).  So not you money back, but that is something without needing pass insurance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


That's a pretty nice perk.
I was more so speaking of the major conglomerate passes like Epic or Ikon.


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## medfordmike (Apr 14, 2020)

machski said:


> Depends which pass and where you buy.  If you get injured and can't ski, SR will usually push some or all of the value of you pass to the next season (depending when you injure yourself).  So not you money back, but that is something without needing pass insurance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



Killington and Pico have the same policy.  My spouse hurt his ankle off the slopes and missed most of the season two years ago and they offered a refund or issuing a credit for next season.  Frankly I was surprised but happy about it.  I would not consider Powdr a conglomerate but they at times have acted liked it....in not a good way. I agree that low to zero chance of that happening with Epic or Ikon.


----------



## Cobbold (Apr 14, 2020)

*Ikon has dropped their prices*

Checked the ikon website, they have lowered the ikon pass price and the base price for renewals, ikon pass with the discounts for a renewal is 799, that’s a great price.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 14, 2020)

It's happening.  



> _*Deer Valley 2019-2020 Season Pass holders are eligible for a 20% discount on the renewal of next year’s 2020-2021 pass* that will be applied at your time of purchase._


----------



## Glenn (Apr 14, 2020)

Stratton extended their early buy prices to May 27th. Select pass price discount of up to $50 by 5/27.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's happening.



For Deer Valley that is a very, very significant discount.  20% can be upwards of $500 in savings.  Compare that to the $50 discount offered for Stratton and you have to ask why the difference.  I imagine that part of that is not due to COVID-19 but to the fact that a lot of homeowners and DV locals are downright pissed with Alterra.  If you have to ask why, IKON think of a few reasons....


----------



## Cobbold (Apr 14, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> For Deer Valley that is a very, very significant discount.  20% can be upwards of $500 in savings.  Compare that to the $50 discount offered for Stratton and you have to ask why the difference.  I imagine that part of that is not due to COVID-19 but to the fact that a lot of homeowners and DV locals are downright pissed with Alterra.  If you have to ask why, IKON think of a few reasons....



It’s weird how Alterra operates, like the vail business model better, an epic pass is an epic pass, looking at ksl capital partners website, all invested into the leisure market, they must be sucking dog water, wonder if ksl capital partners unravels in this whole big mess.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2020)

Cobbold said:


> It’s weird how Alterra operates, like the vail business model better, an epic pass is an epic pass, looking at ksl capital partners website, all invested into the leisure market, they must be sucking dog water, wonder if ksl capital partners unravels in this whole big mess.



I really don't know much about KSL, except that they own Alpine Meadows/Squaw Valley and were controversial to say the least.  But in Tahoe it's hard not to be controversial.  

If I had to guess, I'd say that Crown has most of the power and influence over Alterra.


----------



## machski (Apr 14, 2020)

Glenn said:


> Stratton extended their early buy prices to May 27th. Select pass price discount of up to $50 by 5/27.


Yeah, for some Stratton only products.  Ikon base is returning pass purchase is now a $100 savings off the early price, full Ikon is $200 off early price.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2020)

And naturally Alterra is trying to use the extension as free publicity........


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## p_levert (Apr 14, 2020)

I think that Alterra, and of course Vail, should have a clear policy in place to handle closed ski areas due to pandemics.  If the ski areas don't open, it shouldn't be all on the back of the skier.

Here is the pass insurance that Alterra sells: https://trippreserver.com/alterra-mountain-company/alterra-ikon-pass/   There is no mention of the ski area being closed due to pandemic.


----------



## p_levert (Apr 14, 2020)

Now this is enlightened:

https://twitter.com/jaypeakresort/status/1250170546249240578


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 14, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Now this is enlightened:
> 
> https://twitter.com/jaypeakresort/status/1250170546249240578



Good for them.  Nice.


----------



## Naturalsnow (Apr 14, 2020)

Magic is also offering a flexible policy:

"Although season passes, as always, remain non-refundable, Magic will provide full credit for a new 21/22 season pass if the government closes ski areas for the season before our 20/21 opening day due to COVID-19. Some partial credit toward a future season pass will be done if the season is shut down early before February 1, 2021. Therefore, your Early Bird pass investment is protected."

And this is a nice touch:

"expanded Service pass to include first responders, nurses and ER/ICU doctors in addition to military personnel in recognition of their sacrifices during the pandemic"

https://magicmtn.com/passes-cards/


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2020)

Naturalsnow said:


> Magic is also offering a flexible policy:
> 
> "Although season passes, as always, remain non-refundable, Magic will provide full credit for a new 21/22 season pass if the government closes ski areas for the season before our 20/21 opening day due to COVID-19. Some partial credit toward a future season pass will be done if the season is shut down early before February 1, 2021. Therefore, your Early Bird pass investment is protected."
> 
> ...




https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic-resets-northeast-season-pass?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo4NTE1NTgwLCJwb3N0X2lkIjozNzczNzksIl8iOiJZNnZRcCIsImlhdCI6MTU4Njk2ODYwNywiZXhwIjoxNTg2OTcyMjA3LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItNzg3MSIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.8gQCkk-Z4_89HOxfcLoC-o05F6aiyb2m5x6zwTEsaUk&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share

Good article on Magic's pass plans. I'm buying now, BTW......


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## p_levert (Apr 15, 2020)

slatham said:


> https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic-resets-northeast-season-pass?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo4NTE1NTgwLCJwb3N0X2lkIjozNzczNzksIl8iOiJZNnZRcCIsImlhdCI6MTU4Njk2ODYwNywiZXhwIjoxNTg2OTcyMjA3LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItNzg3MSIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.8gQCkk-Z4_89HOxfcLoC-o05F6aiyb2m5x6zwTEsaUk&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share
> 
> Good article on Magic's pass plans. I'm buying now, BTW......



Based on that article, it does sound like the Indy pass will have an expanded lineup for next season.  Also, on Magic's season pass page, there's this: "A Magic season pass purchase also provides pass holders the opportunity to get an Indy Pass starting this September 1 at a special discount, just $129 ($199 without a pass) which gives two days of free skiing in 20/21 *at over 60* indie ski areas around the country."  That's news, as indyskipass.com currently lists 47 ski areas.  I think Jamaicaman knows something.


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## asnowmobiler (Apr 15, 2020)

Blue Mountain in Pennsylvanian now has a payment plan as well.


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## Killingtime (Apr 15, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Based on that article, it does sound like the Indy pass will have an expanded lineup for next season.  Also, on Magic's season pass page, there's this: "A Magic season pass purchase also provides pass holders the opportunity to get an Indy Pass starting this September 1 at a special discount, just $129 ($199 without a pass) which gives two days of free skiing in 20/21 *at over 60* indie ski areas around the country."  That's news, as indyskipass.com currently lists 47 ski areas.  I think Jamaicaman knows something.



Interesting. I got an email yesterday from the Indy Pass people asking what three Non-Vail/Alterra/Boyne/Powdr resorts I would like to see added to the pass for next year. I threw in Platty, Wachusetts and a very long shot at Windham (used to be on the Max Pass). It will be fun to see who else signed up.


----------



## slatham (Apr 15, 2020)

Killingtime said:


> Interesting. I got an email yesterday from the Indy Pass people asking what three Non-Vail/Alterra/Boyne/Powdr resorts I would like to see added to the pass for next year. I threw in Platty, Wachusetts and a very long shot at Windham (used to be on the Max Pass). It will be fun to see who else signed up.



If they add Platty I am done at $129. I've been dying to get back to Platty (almost did this year on Freedom) and Catamount (Probably would have this season if "free"). Berkshire East and Bolton on the list too.....


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## Killingtime (Apr 15, 2020)

slatham said:


> If they add Platty I am done at $129. I've been dying to get back to Platty (almost did this year on Freedom) and Catamount (Probably would have this season if "free"). Berkshire East and Bolton on the list too.....



Sold my home in Killington last year and spent this winter bouncing around on the Indy Pass. BV, BE and Magic were great. I think Bolton Valley is the most underrated resort in the East. The place was effing awesome. Yeah, Platty would be great or I'll take Bromley too. Never been there but have friends who go all the time. Two days each for $199? Its just too good to pass up.


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## slatham (Apr 15, 2020)

Killingtime said:


> Sold my home in Killington last year and spent this winter bouncing around on the Indy Pass. BV, BE and Magic were great. I think Bolton Valley is the most underrated resort in the East. The place was effing awesome. Yeah, Platty would be great or I'll take Bromley too. Never been there but have friends who go all the time. Two days each for $199? Its just too good to pass up.



Bromley is where we have a place and I am watching carefully what they do. Thus far nothing - no price change, extension of early sale period, inclusion in other passes, etc. And the pass price is too high given the competition. They will have to do something to stay competitive and viable. But what I do not know......


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## cdskier (Apr 15, 2020)

Saw a post on Facebook from MRG that was a reminder that their early price deadline ends tonight.


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## xwhaler (Apr 16, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Based on that article, it does sound like the Indy pass will have an expanded lineup for next season.  Also, on Magic's season pass page, there's this: "A Magic season pass purchase also provides pass holders the opportunity to get an Indy Pass starting this September 1 at a special discount, just $129 ($199 without a pass) which gives two days of free skiing in 20/21 *at over 60* indie ski areas around the country."  That's news, as indyskipass.com currently lists 47 ski areas.  I think Jamaicaman knows something.



I saw that as well. With the Freedom Pass going away for next yr perhaps some of the increased mtns are from that collection? Thinking about new would include Whaleback, Dartmouth Skiway, Plattekill, McIntyre, Lost Valley

Regardless, looks really promising. My wife is a NP so we'll definitely be looking at the Magic pass as well


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## Smellytele (Apr 17, 2020)

During these uncertain times, you may feel unsure about the future and it may be difficult for you to commit to adventures still months away. We understand and want to help alleviate some of that uncertainty, should you decide to buy your pass now or later.

To welcome you to the Ikon Pass community, in addition to the many Ikon Pass benefits, we are introducing Adventure Assurance, providing flexibility for the 20/21 winter season by offering you the choice to defer your adventure to the following season, winter 21/22. This will continue to be available to you if you decide to purchase after prices go up on May 27, 2020.

What You Need to Know:

To take advantage of the lowest prices and discounts on child passes, purchase your 20/21 Ikon Pass before May 27, 2020.

Regardless of when you purchase, you can choose to defer the value of your 20/21 Ikon Pass to a 21/22 Ikon Pass. Contact us between September 10 - December 10, 2020 to defer your pass to the following season.

There is no fee to defer your pass to winter 21/22. More details


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## elks (Apr 17, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> During these uncertain times, you may feel unsure about the future and it may be difficult for you to commit to adventures still months away. We understand and want to help alleviate some of that uncertainty, should you decide to buy your pass now or later.
> 
> To welcome you to the Ikon Pass community, in addition to the many Ikon Pass benefits, we are introducing Adventure Assurance, providing flexibility for the 20/21 winter season by offering you the choice to defer your adventure to the following season, winter 21/22. This will continue to be available to you if you decide to purchase after prices go up on May 27, 2020.
> 
> ...



Sales must be hurting dramatically for them to take this step. Smart move though.


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## drjeff (Apr 17, 2020)

EPIC will have a similar announcement by Monday at the latest is my call....

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Bumpsis (Apr 17, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> During these uncertain times, you may feel unsure about the future and it may be difficult for you to commit to adventures still months away. We understand and want to help alleviate some of that uncertainty, should you decide to buy your pass now or later.
> 
> To welcome you to the Ikon Pass community, in addition to the many Ikon Pass benefits, we are introducing Adventure Assurance, providing flexibility for the 20/21 winter season by offering you the choice to defer your adventure to the following season, winter 21/22. This will continue to be available to you if you decide to purchase after prices go up on May 27, 2020.
> 
> ...




As kelly001 said - this is a smart move. Given the option of deferral, I'm baaack in the Ikon camp.


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## ss20 (Apr 17, 2020)

In the past 5 weeks Covid-19 went from being a joke, to 100-200k deaths, and now signs of normalcy are within sight.  Fear is subsiding and I have utmost faith in ski resorts getting open for next season.  I hope Killington announces something soon so I can get next season's pass cheap lol.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 18, 2020)

My job is safe and my pay has been restored.  I only wound up having my pay cut for three weeks.  

But I am not going to purchase a Burke pass.  There are just too many uncertainties, especially for a ski area that is in receivership and doesn't turn a profit.  I will take the money that I would have spent on the pass and use it for day tickets, even if it means that I ski fewer days next winter.  That is a trade I am willing to make for the peace of mind knowing that I don't have to worry about what next season will look like.


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## Zermatt (Apr 18, 2020)

I don't really follow Epic...have they made matching offer consistent with Ikon in terms of renewal credits and deferred value to 21/22 season?

Vermont is well on their way to normalcy, I just have a hard time seeing how you control the spread between hot zones like NYC and VT just a few hours away.


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## machski (Apr 18, 2020)

billo said:


> I don't really follow Epic...have they made matching offer consistent with Ikon in terms of renewal credits and deferred value to 21/22 season?
> 
> Vermont is well on their way to normalcy, I just have a hard time seeing how you control the spread between hot zones like NYC and VT just a few hours away.


Yeah, I don't know if Epic can counter Alterra here.  Vail has to answer to shareholders, Alterra does not.  Will be interesting to see Vail's plans for 20-21.  I think there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding it still.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Terry (Apr 21, 2020)

Bought our Shawnee Peak passes yesterday. Keeping fingers crossed that the season will happen.


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## slatham (Apr 21, 2020)

From Storm King Skiing Journal:

Windham became the latest Northeast mountain to provide some kind of pass protection in the event that the 2020-21 ski season doesn’t happen, allowing skiers to defer their purchase to the 2021-22 season any time between Sept. 1 and Dec. 10, so long as the pass has not been used.

The mountain joins Alterra (deferrals allowed between Sept. 10 and Dec. 10), Magic (full or partial credit if the government closes ski areas before or during the season), and Jay Peak (full “no-questions-asked” refunds until Oct. 1), in offering some sort of pass protection to Northeast skiers.


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## p_levert (Apr 21, 2020)

slatham said:


> From Storm King Skiing Journal:
> 
> Windham became the latest Northeast mountain to provide some kind of pass protection in the event that the 2020-21 ski season doesn’t happen, allowing skiers to defer their purchase to the 2021-22 season any time between Sept. 1 and Dec. 10, so long as the pass has not been used.
> 
> The mountain joins Alterra (deferrals allowed between Sept. 10 and Dec. 10), Magic (full or partial credit if the government closes ski areas before or during the season), and Jay Peak (full “no-questions-asked” refunds until Oct. 1), in offering some sort of pass protection to Northeast skiers.



Also Bolton, from the bottom of their season pass page:

Should the 2020-21 winter season be negatively impacted by the COVID-19 / coronavirus global pandemic, we have determined the following policy for 3 hypothetical scenarios, should they occur:
1. If closed for the entire 2020-21 winter season: Your pass will be deferred to the following season (2021-22). No cash refunds. Like product for like product. Not transferable. If you’d like to upgrade your pass product, your previous year’s purchase will serve as a credit toward that purchase (i.e. would like to go from a Night Pass to an All Terrain Day & Night Pass, for instance)
2. If we have a 2020-21 season shorter than 11 weeks: If we have a season that is shorter than 11 weeks (equivalent of Christmas though mid March) then for each week that the season is shorter than 11, you will get 10% off the purchase of your 2021-22 season pass. Example: If our 2020-21 season is 9 weeks – you will get 20% off your 2021-22 season pass.
3. If we are open, but your are uncomfortable coming to the mountain due to the coronavirus / COVID-19 and will not use your pass: Must notify us by 12/1/20.  You must not have skied on your pass. If you meet these two conditions, we will turn off your pass for the year and you will get 80% off your purchase applied to your 2021-22 season pass purchase. 

from https://www.boltonvalley.com/winter/tickets-passes/season-passes/

OTOH, the first deadline to purchase is 4/27, I think they need to push that back.  Also, no mention of partner passes and the like.


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## slatham (Apr 21, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Also Bolton, from the bottom of their season pass page:
> 
> Should the 2020-21 winter season be negatively impacted by the COVID-19 / coronavirus global pandemic, we have determined the following policy for 3 hypothetical scenarios, should they occur:
> 1. If closed for the entire 2020-21 winter season: Your pass will be deferred to the following season (2021-22). No cash refunds. Like product for like product. Not transferable. If you’d like to upgrade your pass product, your previous year’s purchase will serve as a credit toward that purchase (i.e. would like to go from a Night Pass to an All Terrain Day & Night Pass, for instance)
> ...



Thanks, that's very customer friendly IMHO.


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## cdskier (Apr 21, 2020)

The Bolton policy seems very reasonable and pretty well thought out.


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## snoseek (Apr 21, 2020)

cdskier said:


> The Bolton policy seems very reasonable and pretty well thought out.



Yep total class act right there. I would think these resorts would start making a plan like this or they will lose out big time.


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## p_levert (Apr 21, 2020)

Yeah, it's a great policy and a great medium sized ski area.

But they took away their Freedom Pass benefit and that hurts!  It sure would be nice if they would offer a few partner pass benefits and/or a rebate on the Indy Pass.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 21, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Yeah, it's a great policy and a great medium sized ski area.
> 
> But they took away their Freedom Pass benefit and that hurts!  It sure would be nice if they would offer a few partner pass benefits and/or a rebate on the Indy Pass.



Unfortunately, BV and Magic were the kingpins of that pass in NE.  Granted it was three days but .....


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## WinS (Apr 22, 2020)

Bumpsis said:


> As kelly001 said - this is a smart move. Given the option of deferral, I'm baaack in the Ikon camp.




This also is the case for all of Sugarbush’s local seasonal passes purchased before May 27th.


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## bizarrefaith (Apr 23, 2020)

Cannon pushed their best discount/bonus pass date to June


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## slatham (Apr 23, 2020)

Bromley pushed deadline to June 15th from May 15th. No mention of any changes but this at least gives them time to decide what to do. IMHO not altering pricing and providing some form of 2020/21 season protection would be very uncompetitive, especially given what Magic and Stratton (Alterra) have done.


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## VTKilarney (Apr 23, 2020)

June makes a lot of sense.  If lockdowns are lifted by then people will feel more comfortable making a purchase.


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## cflavin92 (Apr 24, 2020)

This is an email response from Ragged Mountain regarding their policy for next season.

Please see below what Ragged will be doing for our 20/21 Season Pass holders.

For any Mission: Affordable season pass purchased for the 2020-21 ski season, if the buyer is concerned that we won’t be able to open for the 2020-21 winter season due to the covid 19 virus, the buyer can request any time between September 1st and December 1st, that their 2020-21 season pass be deferred and used for the 2021-22 winter season.

Even if the price of the season pass goes up, their price will be locked in at this year’s rate for 2021-22.  Please note that this is not a cash refund policy.  This is a one-time deferral of usage to the following year if they are concerned that the 2020-21 ski season may not happen due to the coronavirus.

Thank You for your interest in Ragged Mountain Resort.


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## bizarrefaith (Apr 24, 2020)

Bigger than passes, who has re-upped their seasonal leases? We lost our spot (sold) and I am interested to see if there's more inventory this year than in prior years.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 24, 2020)

bizarrefaith said:


> Bigger than passes, who has re-upped their seasonal leases? We lost our spot (sold) and I am interested to see if there's more inventory this year than in prior years.


I was set to sign ours (first timer), but when things started looking weird early March, I decided to pause.  I too am curious to see if inventory increases in the MWV.  See if owners are spooked by the potential of a second round C19 next winter and go for the safe money of a seasonal lease vs the bigger earning potential of putting their property on VRBO.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## icecoast1 (Apr 24, 2020)

bizarrefaith said:


> Bigger than passes, who has re-upped their seasonal leases? We lost our spot (sold) and I am interested to see if there's more inventory this year than in prior years.




I'm waiting for the State of VT to allow real estate transactions again so I can renew mine.   I'm sure there's going to be a lot more openings this year between the economy being in the toilet and people worried about what the virus situation is going to be next winter


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## Zermatt (Apr 24, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> I'm waiting for the State of VT to allow real estate transactions again so I can renew mine.   I'm sure there's going to be a lot more openings this year between the economy being in the toilet and people worried about what the virus situation is going to be next winter



Huh? A state with 50 deaths and a s$#t hole economy stopped real estate transactions? I live in a legitimate hot zone and am closing on a house sale next week. They really are screwed forever, godspeed to VT.


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## icecoast1 (Apr 24, 2020)

billo said:


> Huh? A state with 50 deaths and a s$#t hole economy stopped real estate transactions? I live in a legitimate hot zone and am closing on a house sale next week. They really are screwed forever, godspeed to VT.



They shut down any sort of lodging reservations and renewing leases on seasonal rentals were included in that.   You could still go through with house sales though as long as everything was done remotely and not in person.  I havent been paying as much attention recently though, they're starting to ease restrictions so maybe things have changed


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 24, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> I was set to sign ours (first timer), but when things started looking weird early March, I decided to pause.  I too am curious to see if inventory increases in the MWV.  *See if owners are spooked* by the potential of a second round C19 next winter and go for the safe money of a seasonal lease vs the bigger earning potential of putting their property on VRBO.



I think this is smart.  I wouldnt count on a 2nd round of COVID19, but worst-case scenario you'll probably lock into the same rental type as your budget allows.  Best-case scenario there will be owners with a _"pigs get fed, but hogs get slaughtered"_ mentality who'll decrease their asking price in order to line-up a renter & you'll get a nicer place cheaper than usual.



icecoast1 said:


> *I'm waiting for the State of VT to allow real estate transactions again* so I can renew mine.



Wait, what?  This is insanity.  The same state where WMT has its' food aisles open, but the sporting goods & home aisles are roped off.

I'm legit becoming concerned about this, that is, some governors are taking this WAY TOO EXTREME overboard & I cant help but believe it's going to have a really bad effect on the economy.  If it were only 1 or 2 states, not such a big deal, but I'm reading stories like this a lot.  Vermont's probably one of the most ridiculous, however, given how little impact COVID19 has had.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 24, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> During these uncertain times, you may feel unsure about the future and it may be difficult for you to commit to adventures still months away. We understand and want to help alleviate some of that uncertainty, should you decide to buy your pass now or later.
> 
> To welcome you to the Ikon Pass community, in addition to the many Ikon Pass benefits, we are introducing Adventure Assurance, providing flexibility for the 20/21 winter season by offering you the choice to defer your adventure to the following season, winter 21/22. This will continue to be available to you if you decide to purchase after prices go up on May 27, 2020.
> 
> ...



Speaking of IKON and class act(ion)s:


https://www.classaction.org/media/kramer-v-alterra-mountain-company-et-al.pdf

Interesting tidbit:  who is IKON Pass, Inc.?  Is that owned by Alterra + the resort partners with each owning a piece and getting the revenue?


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 24, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Speaking of IKON and class act(ion)s:
> 
> 
> https://www.classaction.org/media/kramer-v-alterra-mountain-company-et-al.pdf
> ...



 My W.A.G. would be that it's simply a separate entity created solely to help shield broader Alterra.

But you're the lawyer, and this got me thinking, if these EPIC & IKON cases DO actually get to court as opposed to being settled, does that mean that we the common people might learn more about EPIC & IKON via discovery than perhaps Vail & Alterra would be happy about?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 24, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> My W.A.G. would be that it's simply a separate entity created solely to help shield broader Alterra.
> 
> But you're the lawyer, and this got me thinking, if these EPIC & IKON cases DO actually get to court as opposed to being settled, does that mean that we the common people might learn more about EPIC & IKON via discovery than perhaps Vail & Alterra would be happy about?



Definitely a liability shield.

They will definitely want protective orders to prevent “trade secrets” from being exposed.

And I don’t think the suit(s) will probably get too far thanks to the expected contract language that goes with each product (Act of God, force majuere, no refund clause, etc.)


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## cdskier (Apr 24, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Speaking of IKON and class act(ion)s:
> 
> 
> https://www.classaction.org/media/kramer-v-alterra-mountain-company-et-al.pdf
> ...



Umm...doesn't the first line of the intro pretty much answer this?



> Ikon season ski passes are sold by Defendants Alterra Mountain Company and *its fully-owned subsidiary Ikon Pass Inc*.



Or again in the Parties section:


> 7.Defendant Ikon Pass, Inc. is a Delaware Corporation with its headquarters at 3501 Wazee St., Denver, CO 80216. * Ikon Pass, Inc. is a fully-owned subsidiary of Alterra.*


----------



## VTKilarney (Apr 24, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> They shut down any sort of lodging reservations and renewing leases on seasonal rentals were included in that.   You could still go through with house sales though as long as everything was done remotely and not in person.  I havent been paying as much attention recently though, they're starting to ease restrictions so maybe things have changed



Not quite true.  Lodging reservations for after June 15th are allowed.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Apr 24, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Umm...doesn't the first line of the intro pretty much answer this?



It's not that simple.  The word, "and" is a bit confusing there.  Does Alterra sell IKON passes too, or just the subsidiary company?  As I said before, I'm pretty sure IKON Pass Inc. exists solely to protect Alterra, but that "and" is somewhat ambiguous.


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## cdskier (Apr 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's not that simple.  The word, "and" is a bit confusing there.  Does Alterra sell IKON passes too, or just the subsidiary company?  As I said before, I'm pretty sure IKON Pass Inc. exists solely to protect Alterra, but that "and" is somewhat ambiguous.



Whether Alterra sells Ikon passes as well is irrelevant to the question TB asked. He asked "who is IKON Pass, Inc.? Is that owned by Alterra + the resort partners with each owning a piece and getting the revenue?" The answer there is pretty clear. "Ikon Pass, Inc" is a fully owned subsidiary of Alterra. If they are "fully" owned by Alterra, then the resort partners can't own a piece of "Ikon Pass, Inc" (unless they also happen to own a piece of Alterra).

Completely agree with you that the subsidiary exists to protect Alterra. Nothing surprising at all about a large company having subsidiaries for different functions and activities.


----------



## Newpylong (Apr 25, 2020)

Not so much to protect Alterra but to make member mountain disbursements and the books easier.


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## JimG. (Apr 25, 2020)

deadheadskier said:


> I was set to sign ours (first timer), but when things started looking weird early March, I decided to pause.  I too am curious to see if inventory increases in the MWV.  See if owners are spooked by the potential of a second round C19 next winter and go for the safe money of a seasonal lease vs the bigger earning potential of putting their property on VRBO.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



Good timing for you.

And I agree with your current plan. 

I am totally rethinking any ski country real estate purchase at this point. See where things stand in 12-18 months.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 25, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Umm...doesn't the first line of the intro pretty much answer this?
> 
> 
> 
> Or again in the Parties section:



Interesting.  Frankly last night I did not read much of it and just posted it.  

Those are allegations....so looks like their site and some digging turned that up, but it is not an admitted fact.  I don't have much reason to doubt it, just thought it was interesting that they created that entity.


----------



## thetrailboss (Apr 25, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> Not so much to protect Alterra but to make member mountain disbursements and the books easier.



True, but as is the case here, Alterra can say, "wrong entity" and point the finger to the IKON entity, so the liability shield applies there.  Of course when you get into the technicalities it may not ultimately make much of a difference.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> It's not that simple.  The word, "and" is a bit confusing there.  Does Alterra sell IKON passes too, or just the subsidiary company?  As I said before, I'm pretty sure IKON Pass Inc. exists solely to protect Alterra, but that "and" is somewhat ambiguous.



I think that the word "and" is for CYA because an outsider just does not know what they do....


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## cdskier (Apr 25, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Those are allegations....so looks like their site and some digging turned that up, but it is not an admitted fact.  I don't have much reason to doubt it, just thought it was interesting that they created that entity.



Years ago I saw a giant poster board chart in our legal department at work of all our subsidiaries and various legal entities at the time. Quite frankly it was a huge eye opener.  Ever since then I've never been surprised at any company that has various subsidiaries when you typically think of it as "1" single company.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 25, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Years ago I saw a giant poster board chart in our legal department at work of all our subsidiaries and various legal entities at the time. Quite frankly it was a huge eye opener.  Ever since then I've never been surprised at any company that has various subsidiaries when you typically think of it as "1" single company.



Absolutely.  I, and others, are just interested in how the IKON pass "works" in terms of distributing money to the member resorts.


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## p_levert (Apr 25, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Absolutely.  I, and others, are just interested in how the IKON pass "works" in terms of distributing money to the member resorts.



Yes, I am hugely interested in how these pass products distribute revenue (Ikon, Epic, Indy, Freedom).  Epic is pretty simple, just because nearly all of the resorts are owned by the same company.  But everyone else, who knows?

I heard a non-confirmed report that Bolton Valley managed the Freedom Pass.  If this is true, they are correct to hide their involvement, because, wow, the most screwed up pass product anywhere!  Even though this pass appears to dead as a doorknob, the freedompass.ski website is still up.  But it was never clear which resorts were really in or out.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 25, 2020)

Newpylong said:


> *Not so much to protect Alterra but to make member mountain disbursements and the books easier*.



I dont think either of those things are true.   

One, I'd be shocked if a major point of the wholly-owned subsidiary isnt to help deflect liability, and on your second point, I dont understand what you're saying.  I work for a company that sells hundreds of products, some with complicated royalties (i.e. much more difficult than lift ticket disbursements), and I cant think of a reason why having a separate "Inc." would make the books any easier.  Frankly, it actually complicates things via duplication.


EDIT:  This got me thinking though.  Could Vail do this too, and if so, have they created an off balance sheet entity? That could be a bit more interesting given they're a publicly traded compnay. Hmmm.....


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## Newpylong (Apr 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I dont think either of those things are true.
> 
> One, I'd be shocked if a major point of the wholly-owned subsidiary isnt to help deflect liability, and on your second point, I dont understand what you're saying.  I work for a company that sells hundreds of products, some with complicated royalties (i.e. much more difficult than lift ticket disbursements), and I cant think of a reason why having a separate "Inc." would make the books any easier.  Frankly, it actually complicates things via duplication.
> 
> ...



What do I know, I just asked someone at Alterra instead of guessing.


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## slatham (Apr 26, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Yes, I am hugely interested in how these pass products distribute revenue (Ikon, Epic, Indy, Freedom).  Epic is pretty simple, just because nearly all of the resorts are owned by the same company.  But everyone else, who knows?
> 
> I heard a non-confirmed report that Bolton Valley managed the Freedom Pass.  If this is true, they are correct to hide their involvement, because, wow, the most screwed up pass product anywhere!  Even though this pass appears to dead as a doorknob, the freedompass.ski website is still up.  But it was never clear which resorts were really in or out.



Two things I know for a fact, on the Freedom pass, tickets at your non-home-pass area were "comp" tickets - no money exchanges hands. For the Indy pass, when someone uses their pass at a non-home-pass area, that area generates revenue. 

My guess is for Epic, even though both home-pass area and non-home-pass area are Vail, they will still allocate revenue to the non-home-pass area.


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## bigbob (Apr 26, 2020)

When I used my IKON Pass at Sunday River I had to get a ticket. i signed a slip and I think it had a charge of $46 on it


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## snoseek (Apr 27, 2020)

Any news on how vail resorts resorts plans on moving forward going into next season. I'm torn between epic (better east for me) and ikon (better west options) and am absolutely not committing until I know there's some kind of protection.


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## prsboogie (Apr 27, 2020)

https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx

They just posted this on their website.

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## snoseek (Apr 27, 2020)

prsboogie said:


> https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx
> 
> They just posted this on their website.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Yeah this puts me at ease a bit. Between missing wildcat last winter and that generous veteran discount I'm super tempted.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 27, 2020)

Now will IKON follow?


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## cdskier (Apr 27, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Now will IKON follow?



Follow what? They already doubled the discount to renewals AND offered protection if next year's season is cancelled (or even if you don't personally feel comfortable skiing even if it is open).


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## p_levert (Apr 27, 2020)

I dunno, it's something, but really not much.  As soon as you have used your season pass for 7 days, you lose all possibility of a refund.  See the FAQs.

Honestly, I prefer having the option of backing out in December for any reason.  Personally, I don't think there's much chance of a virus 2nd wave this summer.  But, dang, there could be a second wave by the fall and I prefer to protect myself against that.  Ikon for me.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 27, 2020)

I didn't think of this until yesterday, but even when lockdown/shelter-in-place fets lifted, who is going to feel comfortable riding up on a chair lift right next to a stranger or being in a gondola/bubble with someone who could be carrying the virus? Kind of scary to think about it honestly.


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## p_levert (Apr 27, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Follow what? They already doubled the discount to renewals AND offered protection if next year's season is cancelled (or even if you don't personally feel comfortable skiing even if it is open).



Vail made two announcements.  The pass coverage for next season is one thing.  But they also announced a 20% reduction for returning passholders.  It's more than the $100 that Ikon offered on the base pass.  Plus there's a kicker if you didn't use your pass much.

http://investors.vailresorts.com/ne...vides-update-season-pass-plans-20202021-north


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## Edd (Apr 27, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> I didn't think of this until yesterday, but even when lockdown/shelter-in-place fets lifted, who is going to feel comfortable riding up on a chair lift right next to a stranger or being in a gondola/bubble with someone who could be carrying the virus? Kind of scary to think about it honestly.



Outside with the chair in motion? I’m not worried, personally. 

Edit: But yeah, screw gondolas and trams. Like I needed another reason to dislike those kinds of lifts. 


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## cdskier (Apr 27, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Vail made two announcements.  The pass coverage for next season is one thing.  But they also announced a 20% reduction for returning passholders.  It's more than the $100 that Ikon offered on the base pass.  Plus there's a kicker if you didn't use your pass much.



Right...the reductions for returning passholders aren't really THAT different for most skiers (with the exception of people who used their pass less than 7 days...which is honestly overall probably a pretty small % of overall passholders).

Ikon effectively offered 20% off the full Ikon and 14% off the base Ikon. %20 from Vail on the Epic Local comes out to $140.

Additionally, the Epic Local costs $30 more than the Ikon Base...so the net difference comes out to $10.


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## p_levert (Apr 27, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Right...the reductions for returning passholders aren't really THAT different for most skiers (with the exception of people who used their pass less than 7 days...which is honestly overall probably a pretty small % of overall passholders).
> 
> Ikon effectively offered 20% off the full Ikon and 14% off the base Ikon. %20 from Vail on the Epic Local comes out to $140.
> 
> Additionally, the Epic Local costs $30 more than the Ikon Base...so the net difference comes out to $10.



Oh, sure, the differences aren't huge.  One other thing to note, however.  For Ikon Base (that's me), there wasn't a price decrease at all.  To renew one year ago, I paid $599, which included the $50 renewal discount.  So then Ikon raised prices and offered the same $50 for renewal.  Then, in response to Covid, they increased the renewal discount to $100.  So we're just back at no price increase for 20/21.

OTOH, they made Sugarbush and Stratton unlimited, but took away Aspen and Jax, so really kind of a wash there as well.


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## Zermatt (Apr 27, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Follow what? They already doubled the discount to renewals AND offered protection if next year's season is cancelled (or even if you don't personally feel comfortable skiing even if it is open).



IKON will have to match Epic's new "insurance" coverage.  This appears to be a real insurance product that includes injury and typically uninsurable events like disease and war.  Ikon is just offering a roll over of value and you have to opt-in before the season starts (and it does not look like it is backed by an insurance company).

FYI...Wimbledon had insurance coverage that included pandemics....they will be made whole this summer.


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## slatham (Apr 27, 2020)

billo said:


> IKON will have to match Epic's new "insurance" coverage.  This appears to be a real insurance product that includes injury and typically uninsurable events like disease and war.  Ikon is just offering a roll over of value and you have to opt-in before the season starts (and it does not look like it is backed by an insurance company).



I agree, Epic covers many situations and provides a refund, including a prorata refund if season is cut short. Very customer friendly. With Ikon you can only defer usage for one season, though it is for any reason. But on the other hand, there is a due date of December 10th, and the pass cannot have been used.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 27, 2020)

Out here, both Alta and Snowbird have suspended season pass sales for the immediate future.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 27, 2020)

Edd said:


> Outside with the chair in motion? I’m not worried, personally.
> 
> Edit: But yeah, *screw gondolas and trams. Like I needed another reason to dislike those kinds of lifts. *



Same.   Anyplace I ski I basically avoid them.


Gore - can 100% be skied without having to use the gondola 
Jay Peak - never use the tram
Stowe - Only use the gondola if I want to hit Chin Clip (not a horrible loss)
Whiteface - never use the gondola

And that's it.

Makes me wonder though, if this is an issue, can chairs be successfully run on some vendor's gondy lines?


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## Smellytele (Apr 27, 2020)

Edd said:


> Outside with the chair in motion? I’m not worried, personally.
> 
> Edit: But yeah, screw gondolas and trams. Like I needed another reason to dislike those kinds of lifts.
> 
> ...



Standing in a line is worse than riding the lift.


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## p_levert (Apr 27, 2020)

billo said:


> IKON will have to match Epic's new "insurance" coverage.



Just give me another $50 off on my Ikon base and I'm happy.  Screw the insurance, it's really not needed for a relatively low capital outlay item.


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## cdskier (Apr 27, 2020)

slatham said:


> I agree, Epic covers many situations and provides a refund, including a prorata refund if season is cut short. Very customer friendly. With Ikon you can only defer usage for one season, though it is for any reason. But on the other hand, there is a due date of December 10th, and the pass cannot have been used.



They both have some different pros and cons. With Ikon the customer can decide to defer for any reason by early December (and I would think by that point people have a decent handle on what the situation would be). With Epic if they choose to open the mountains (even with some sort of restrictions/limitations that you're not personally comfortable with), you're out of luck from a refund perspective. For that I personally give the edge to Ikon even though it is a deferral and not a refund.

The options they give to determine how much of a refund you get are also interesting...people need to read that part carefully with the Epic coverage.

"Core season" for purposes of a refund calculation only goes from Thanksgiving to Easter (which is very early in April next year). So if the season was cut short in mid-March like it was this year, you only get a refund for 2-3 weeks of the season.

For the other things the Epic coverage covers (i.e. injury), the pro-rated coverage is based entirely on the number of days you've skied so far. Once you hit 7 days, you get 0% back from that "personal coverage" portion of the insurance. So if you ski 7 days in December and get injured January 1st and miss the bulk of the season...too bad it seems if I'm reading it right.

With Ikon's insurance for that injury type of scenario I can't figure out exactly how they calculate it. They simply say it is pro-rated based on when the "season interruption" claim occurs.


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## Zermatt (Apr 27, 2020)

I mentioned this in a different thread weeks ago.

Places like Revelstoke are screwed with only a gondola to access the mountain.

Long before COVID-19 existed I mentioned to Revelstoke they were screwed with only a single lift at the bottom.  They acknowledged, nothing they had really good maintenance.


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## machski (Apr 27, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Makes me wonder though, if this is an issue, can chairs be successfully run on some vendor's gondy lines?



On the line itself, absolutely.  However, the loading/unloading platforms would need to be substantially modified to allow for safe load/unload of skiers/riders from the chairs.  Many Gondis have tracks below the cabins on the platforms to help stabilize them for boarding/unloading that would need to be covered up at a minimum.

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## mbedle (Apr 27, 2020)

machski said:


> On the line itself, absolutely.  However, the loading/unloading platforms would need to be substantially modified to allow for safe load/unload of skiers/riders from the chairs.  Many Gondis have tracks below the cabins on the platforms to help stabilize them for boarding/unloading that would need to be covered up at a minimum.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app



I'll take that a step further and state that some gondolas could never be converted to a chairlift. Stowe's gondola loads and unloads inside buildings with multiple stairs.


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## machski (Apr 27, 2020)

mbedle said:


> I'll take that a step further and state that some gondolas could never be converted to a chairlift. Stowe's gondola loads and unloads inside buildings with multiple stairs.


I've loaded and unloaded many chairs inside of buildings, some with snow ramps, some with loading carpets and some with the nylon fake snow carpeting.  You can load/unload a chair within a building.  If you want examples, Mount Bachelor Summit Express loads/unloads top/bottom in a building, same with Turoa in NZ's Summit 6.  Mammoth's Chair 23 is a FGT and unloads in a building (heck, it enters a tunnel coming up to the summit station!)

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## x10003q (Apr 27, 2020)

p_levert said:


> Oh, sure, the differences aren't huge.  One other thing to note, however.  For Ikon Base (that's me), there wasn't a price decrease at all.  To renew one year ago, I paid $599, which included the $50 renewal discount.  So then Ikon raised prices and offered the same $50 for renewal.  Then, in response to Covid, they increased the renewal discount to $100.  So we're just back at no price increase for 20/21.
> 
> OTOH, they made Sugarbush and Stratton unlimited, but took away Aspen and Jax, so really kind of a wash there as well.



Ikon base has blackout dates at Stratton and Sugarbush.
Dec 26, 2020 – Jan 2, 2021
Jan 16-17, 2021
Feb 13-14, 2021


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## p_levert (Apr 27, 2020)

I think it might be easier to remove one of the gondola benches and take out some or all of the windows.  Not a bad approximation to a chairlift. And you would have some protection from snow and rain, but it might get cold.


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## andrec10 (Apr 27, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Same.   Anyplace I ski I basically avoid them.
> 
> 
> Gore - can 100% be skied without having to use the gondola
> ...



Only Problem with Gore, is using the High Peaks chair to get to the top. I hate that thing....


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## Edd (Apr 27, 2020)

p_levert said:


> I think it might be easier to remove one of the gondola benches and take out some or all of the windows.  Not a bad approximation to a chairlift. And you would have some protection from snow and rain, but it might get cold.



I like that idea.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Standing in a line is worse than riding the lift.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


This. On a lift you're crammed next to someone almost all of the time but at least moving. That's one positive for that scenario.
But like smellytele said, the crowding at the base of the lifts to wait in line is just as bad with people on top of one another. There is 0 chance of instituting social distancing in a life line and yes you're outside, but there is no motion benefit. People are coughing, sneezing, sweating, etc. - not the most sanitary of spaces to be honest.

As I think about it now... this might basically disqualify my wife and myself from being able to ride here in New England on weekends, at least for next season. She's high risk, so I don't know if she will be able to/willing to be standing in a lift line next to a bunch of strangers or on a chair with them. Same goes for me, I can't be bringing this virus into our home.

I'm not going to quote them all, but for the suggestion to remove a bench/windows from a gondola to make it like a chair, you still have a heck of a lot more surfaces to attract/house germs compared to a normal chair lift. But, still, I think both are issues either way due to proximity between yourself and other skiers/riders.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 27, 2020)

This secondary discussion of lift lines and lifts is worthy of its own thread!

Back to the original discussion - Epic Spring deadline is now moved to Labor Day including buddy tickets - that is significant while other pushed out until June.  Of course you can lock in now for $49 as always.

Also nice to know that if part of the season is lost next year they will refund the % of the season that was lost.

I think over all this was pretty well thought out.  Makes me wonder if they were trying to get ahead of the call action?


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## kendo (Apr 27, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> This secondary discussion of lift lines and lifts is worthy of its own thread!
> 
> Back to the original discussion - Epic Spring deadline is now moved to Labor Day including buddy tickets - that is significant while other pushed out until June.  Of course you can lock in now for $49 as always.
> 
> ...



Will wait until 5/13 or after to purchase Epic.  That's the date they'll email your 19/20 credit code to use for 20/21.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 27, 2020)

kendo said:


> Will wait until 5/13 or after to purchase Epic.  That's the date they'll email your 19/20 credit code to use for 20/21.



Will probably do the same!


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## prsboogie (Apr 27, 2020)

Definitely feeling better about my early Epic purchase. Automatic credit for the pass insurance and credit from the end of the season is a nice bonus.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 28, 2020)

kendo said:


> Will wait until 5/13 or after to purchase Epic.  That's the date they'll email your 19/20 credit code to use for 20/21.



not if you were a Peaks convert.  the date for the epic credit for Peaks customers is 5/21.


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## drjeff (Apr 28, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> not if you were a Peaks convert.  the date for the epic credit for Peaks customers is 5/21.



Granted I didn't read that part (the Peak pass part) very closely, but the chatter among some of my ski friends, who didn't switch from Peak to Epic last year, in a big group text about 20 of us have, was that those of us who bought Epic's will be seeing our email notification with our exact discount amount by 5/13 and those who had Peak passes last year will be getting their notification by 5/21 and we all have until Labor Day to purchase with no loss of benefits/discounts


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## slatham (Apr 28, 2020)

Ikon just added Windham, and Mt Bachelor.


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## cdskier (Apr 28, 2020)

slatham said:


> Ikon just added Windham, and Mt Bachelor.



Really would have rather seen them partner with NYS on the Belleayre/Gore/Whiteface combo rather than Windham. Windham is the least exciting option in the Catskills.


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## p_levert (Apr 28, 2020)

Windham is a pretty boring addition, but Mt. Bachelor is great.  Big mountain with a very long ski season.  Timberline and Mt Hood Meadows on the way from the Portland airport.  You can also fly into Seattle and drive down, it's not too bad a drive.


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## jimmywilson69 (Apr 28, 2020)

drjeff said:


> Granted I didn't read that part (the Peak pass part) very closely, but the chatter among some of my ski friends, who didn't switch from Peak to Epic last year, in a big group text about 20 of us have, was that those of us who bought Epic's will be seeing our email notification with our exact discount amount by 5/13 and those who had Peak passes last year will be getting their notification by 5/21 and we all have until Labor Day to purchase with no loss of benefits/discounts



that could certainly be the case now that you say it like that.  I forgot there were a lot of people who had peak passes and didn't have to upgrade.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 28, 2020)

cdskier said:


> Windham is the least exciting option in the Catskills.



The Windham clientele will not like being IKONic.


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## cdskier (Apr 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The Windham clientele will not like being IKONic.



Very true. Although on the flip side, many Ikon passholders would probably have no interest in skiing Windham. So I don't think they need to be overly concerned about much of an "Ikon effect".


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## machski (Apr 28, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> The Windham clientele will not like being IKONic.


Except they get an Ikon base as part of their high season pass price now.  And they are only a partner resort, so only 5 blackout or 7 unrestricted days for base/full Ikon passholders.

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## BenedictGomez (Apr 28, 2020)

machski said:


> Except they get an Ikon base as part of their high season pass price now.  And they are only a partner resort, so only 5 blackout or 7 unrestricted days for base/full Ikon passholders.



I guess it's not a disaster for them then.  Especially since I'm guessing many regional IKON holders will have no desire to ski Windham.


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## slatham (Apr 28, 2020)

Debating IKON and yes, technically adding Windham is a plus for me simply because it adds a "free" day trip area which otherwise isn't available. Its also an area I've never skied, which is of interest even though, obviously, the mountain has yet to compel me to ski it (with one small exception of a brief night skiing visit on my way to a Plattekill powder day the next day).

One drawback to the Ikon offering to "defer" the 20/21 season pass to 21/22 - its actually a credit toward purchase. Thus if the 21/22 pass costs more, you have to pay up (but no credit if it goes down). If it were truly a deferral and I could just not use it in 21/22 and instead of 20/21, with no up charge, it would be a no brainer.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 28, 2020)

Just saw this:  https://www.powder.com/stories/news...WYM-04282020-DYNAMIC&utm_term=what_you_missed


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## WoodCore (Apr 28, 2020)

Bought an Ikon pass this week.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 28, 2020)

WoodCore said:


> Bought an Ikon pass this week.



We are waiting for the Epic credit!


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## Zermatt (Apr 29, 2020)

WoodCore said:


> Bought an Ikon pass this week.



Why?

Absolutely no rush waiting until the deadline in late May. None. Get to keep your money longer, Price is the same. Can get 4 more weeks of data and clarity about how this will all pay out.


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## skiur (Apr 29, 2020)

billo said:


> Why?
> 
> Absolutely no rush waiting until the deadline in late May. None. Get to keep your money longer, Price is the same. Can get 4 more weeks of data and clarity about how this will all pay out.



Agreed, also, why let Ikon make interest on your money while you can?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 29, 2020)

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2020/04/29/utah-skiers-underwhelmed/


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## Smellytele (Apr 29, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2020/04/29/utah-skiers-underwhelmed/



The interview a guy who skied 4 times this year? They couldn’t find anyone else?


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## thetrailboss (Apr 29, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> The interview a guy who skied 4 times this year? They couldn’t find anyone else?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I thought that was weird too.  I mean he is in SLC.  You only have to drive like 20 miles to ski.


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## cdskier (Apr 29, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> The interview a guy who skied 4 times this year? They couldn’t find anyone else?



First thing that entered my mind too. They probably did "find" others...but they didn't fit the story they were trying to tell.



thetrailboss said:


> I thought that was weird too.  I mean he is in SLC.  You only have to drive like 20 miles to ski.



Seriously...if you live 20 miles from some major ski areas and have only skied 4 times by mid-March, I really can't blame the ski resorts for that.


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## thetrailboss (Apr 29, 2020)

cdskier said:


> First thing that entered my mind too. They probably did "find" others...but they didn't fit the story they were trying to tell.
> 
> Seriously...if you live 20 miles from some major ski areas and have only skied 4 times by mid-March, I really can't blame the ski resorts for that.



I think one would be surprised just how many folks who have this pass and have skied less than 5 days.  In fact, they bank on folks buying it and not using it.  Unfortunately, the downside being these folks are the first to complain.


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## p_levert (Apr 29, 2020)

billo said:


> Why?
> 
> Absolutely no rush waiting until the deadline in late May. None. Get to keep your money longer, Price is the same. Can get 4 more weeks of data and clarity about how this will all pay out.



Sure, all logical and I am following this plan.  OTOH, $600 isn't really that much and there's a case to be made for ending the indecision.  If you fly to go skiing and the season gets cancelled, you will probably end up *saving* money, because of expenses not incurred.  So WoodCore's decision also makes sense.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 29, 2020)

skiur said:


> Agreed, also, why let Ikon make interest on your money while you can?



Exactly.  It's like nails on a chalkboard to finance folks, but to each his/her own.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 29, 2020)

One day they pull the rug out from under you and you have nothing!  Well that is not of the resorts doing.  I think they are attempting to put forward options which I think is great.  The fact that this guy chooses to ski four times by mid March is not on the resorts, that is on him!  In addition, maybe this is a case where someone is being cheap.  Any of the mega passes offer a ton of skiing/snowboarding and experiences to travel for a decent price and multiple offerings.


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## cdskier (Apr 29, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> The fact that this guy chooses to ski four times by mid March is not on the resorts, that is on him!



Kind of like someone that buys a monthly gym membership and rarely goes but then now with the gym closed is first in line looking for money back saying "I swear I was going to go every day the rest of this month if you hadn't closed!"


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 29, 2020)

cdskier said:


> First thing that entered my mind too. They probably did "find" others...but *they didn't fit the story they were trying to tell.*



This.

I created a FB page largely to follow western media sources from places like Utah, Idaho, Colorado, etc.. to get local news & cultural information & flavor since we're considering moving out west, and that paper is egregiously biased.  Virtually every article they post has some sort of agenda or ulterior motive.


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## slatham (Apr 29, 2020)

skiur said:


> Agreed, also, why let Ikon make interest on your money while you can?



Ok sorry to be a finance geek, and I get and agree with the sentiment, but one months interest on $600 at 1/2% (if lucky) is 25 CENTS.


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## Jcb890 (Apr 29, 2020)

slatham said:


> Ok sorry to be a finance geek, and I get and agree with the sentiment, but one months interest on $600 at 1/2% (if lucky) is 25 CENTS.


Just FYI - everyone can easily get 1%+ or 1.5%+.
One of the biggest, easiest-to-use online accounts, Ally Bank is 1.5%.


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## BenedictGomez (Apr 29, 2020)

slatham said:


> Ok sorry to be a finance geek, and I get and agree with the sentiment, but one months interest on $600 at 1/2% (if lucky) is 25 CENTS.



I'd point out two things on that:

1)  It's a behavioral thing, so chances are if you're the sort of person who pays needlessly early for this you may be the sort who pays needlessly early for all sorts of things, so the cumulative effect over years could be large.  Or perhaps you needlessly get an unnecessarily large tax refund, etc...  I think this is the sentiment people are expressing.  I know I am.  Kills me to think of people needlessly paying early for this-and-that.

2) Rotting in a bank account isn't the only place to put the $600.  You can easily move funds instantly in/out of equity trading accounts, etc. which offer potentially much larger return.


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## p_levert (Apr 29, 2020)

The $299 Powderhorn CO pass has gotten even better!  They now list 13 partner areas.  This is in addition to the unlimited at Powderhorn, Ragged and Wisp, as well as days at Wintergreen and Mt. Washington (BC).  The deadline is fairly soon (May 3).

https://powderhorn.com/plan-purchase/purchase/season-passes.html


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## slatham (Apr 30, 2020)

Jcb890 said:


> Just FYI - everyone can easily get 1%+ or 1.5%+.
> One of the biggest, easiest-to-use online accounts, Ally Bank is 1.5%.



Ok, so 75 cents. From a purely financial perspective its irrelevant. Philosophically it might not be.


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## NYDB (May 20, 2020)

IKON deadline now pushed to 6/17.  Hopefully they will get a better covid guarantee between now and then


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## slatham (May 20, 2020)

Indy is the winner on protecting the 20/21 season. They also just added Cannon:

Indy also introduced what is probably the most straightforward pass protection plan yet, as it is not tied to government shutdowns or Covid-19 or alligator attacks or anything other than how many days a skier scans the pass. Use it zero days, get an 80 percent credit toward at 2021-22 pass, and the credit scales down from there: one day gets a 60 percent credit, two days is 40 percent, three days is 20.


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## Edd (May 21, 2020)

I just got a surprise discount code for the Epic Pass. I had a Peak Traveler last season. No Epic. Did not expect reimbursement for Peak passes. 

Something I don’t understand. I’ve been given two separate discount codes for two separate pass products. One product is the Peak Traveler, which makes sense. They’re crediting me $65 or so for that. 

The other is for something called “3 X”.  It says I purchased this for $149 and they’re crediting me $79 for that. 

I have no idea what the second item is. It says I can use one of these discounts. Anyone understand this? I did not visit an Epic resort last year outside of Peak areas. 


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## boston_e (May 21, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> The fact that this guy chooses to ski four times by mid March is not on the resorts, that is on him!  In addition, maybe this is a case where someone is being cheap.  Any of the mega passes offer a ton of skiing/snowboarding and experiences to travel for a decent price and multiple offerings.



For the fellow in the article where he lives in Salt Lake area then yes one could say it is on him, but with the way the resorts have set up the season pass / day ticket cost structure, it encourages the purchase of passes that can be justified without getting too many days in.

A fair number of people who don't live in mountain areas justify their passes from one big trip, and if they get a few extra days thats just a bonus.  I'm sure anyone who had a march trip planned definitely feel like they had the rug pulled out from under them (and a lot of states have their school break in March.  The 2 breaks in Feb and April seems to be mostly a New England thing).


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## thebigo (May 21, 2020)

Edd said:


> I just got a surprise discount code for the Epic Pass. I had a Peak Traveler last season. No Epic. Did not expect reimbursement for Peak passes.
> 
> Something I don’t understand. I’ve been given two separate discount codes for two separate pass products. One product is the Peak Traveler, which makes sense. They’re crediting me $65 or so for that.
> 
> ...



We got the same email. Lists 50 days for me on the pass, actual was 54, with a credit of $125.80. Lists 5 days for the wife, actual was 10, same credit $125.80. I guess no credit on the kids passes, not that I expected one; honestly I don't think any credit was needed but not going to turn down free money. The $600 I got back between Vail and Killington will cover my pass next year.

Nothing about 3X for us.


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## prsboogie (May 21, 2020)

thebigo said:


> We got the same email. Lists 50 days for me on the pass, actual was 54, with a credit of $125.80. Lists 5 days for the wife, actual was 10, same credit $125.80. I guess no credit on the kids passes, not that I expected one; honestly I don't think any credit was needed but not going to turn down free money. The $600 I got back between Vail and Killington will cover my pass next year.
> 
> Nothing about 3X for us.


Surprised you didn't get anything for the kids. We did. 

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## BenedictGomez (May 21, 2020)

boston_e said:


> I'm sure *anyone who had a march trip planned definitely feel like they had the rug pulled out from under them (and a lot of states have their school break in March. *



Not just with season passes, I think that likely happens more with vouchers.  I had a bunch of Ski Vermont VIP vouchers saved specifically to use at Smuggs, and it seems like Ski Vermont wont be honoring them.  Hundreds down the toilet.

<----- Not buying Ski Vermont vouchers next season


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## Smellytele (May 22, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Not just with season passes, I think that likely happens more with vouchers.  I had a bunch of Ski Vermont VIP vouchers saved specifically to use at Smuggs, and it seems like Ski Vermont wont be honoring them.  Hundreds down the toilet.
> 
> <----- Not buying Ski Vermont vouchers next season



+1. 
Mine were saved for K and Magic. Did use them for Stowe and the ‘bush so got some use from them but still won’t be getting them next year 


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## mbedle (May 22, 2020)

Edd said:


> I just got a surprise discount code for the Epic Pass. I had a Peak Traveler last season. No Epic. Did not expect reimbursement for Peak passes.
> 
> Something I don’t understand. I’ve been given two separate discount codes for two separate pass products. One product is the Peak Traveler, which makes sense. They’re crediting me $65 or so for that.
> 
> ...



Did you purchase a 3X card to use at Hunter?


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## Edd (May 22, 2020)

mbedle said:


> Did you purchase a 3X card to use at Hunter?



Nope. Never been to Hunter.


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## BenedictGomez (May 22, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> *+1.
> Mine were saved for K and Magic.* Did use them for Stowe and the ‘bush so got some use from them but still *won’t be getting them next year *



Does anyone know any other lift ticket or voucher sellers who just told people to shove it, besides SKI Vermont?

I could be wrong & probably am, but AFAIK Ski Vermont is the only entity not honoring things like pre-paid vouchers or pre-paid lift tickets next season, for at least a limited spell (e.g. open to December 20th or March 1st to close).  Even some season pass products, which you could certainly make the argument have far less reason to make any concessions at all, are doing so.


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## catskillman (May 25, 2020)

Edd said:


> I just got a surprise discount code for the Epic Pass. I had a Peak Traveler last season. No Epic. Did not expect reimbursement for Peak passes.
> 
> Something I don’t understand. I’ve been given two separate discount codes for two separate pass products. One product is the Peak Traveler, which makes sense. They’re crediting me $65 or so for that.
> 
> ...



I got the same credit for a 3X card.  I have never purchased one of these.


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## sull1102 (May 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Does anyone know any other lift ticket or voucher sellers who just told people to shove it, besides SKI Vermont?
> 
> I could be wrong & probably am, but AFAIK Ski Vermont is the only entity not honoring things like pre-paid vouchers or pre-paid lift tickets next season, for at least a limited spell (e.g. open to December 20th or March 1st to close).  Even some season pass products, which you could certainly make the argument have far less reason to make any concessions at all, are doing so.



Got burned on 3 of them, but at least the one I did use was at Stowe. I'm really surprised by their move to just say too bad. I wonder if they have a way to see how many were remaining at the end of the season. Perhaps they felt there either weren't enough out there to make it worth it OR the vast majority of passes are still out there.


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## Edd (May 25, 2020)

catskillman said:


> I got the same credit for a 3X card.  I have never purchased one of these.



I’m getting curious enough to call about it, at the risk of losing the discount.


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## yeggous (May 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> I’m getting curious enough to call about it, at the risk of losing the discount.



Do it. And let me know what you learn. You’ll only be able to use one discount code, so the worst case scenario is you’re out the difference of the two credits — so $14.


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## JimG. (May 26, 2020)

Edd said:


> I’m getting curious enough to call about it, at the risk of losing the discount.



I bought one day ticket at Mt. Snow last season to ski with my son on a high school trip. I think I paid $63 online in advance.

Today I got a promo discount from Epic for $75 off an Epic product for 20-21. Email specifically mentioned the day pass I bought. It's still unlikely I'll buy an Epic pass but that's a pretty good offer.


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## Smellytele (May 27, 2020)

JimG. said:


> I bought one day ticket at Mt. Snow last season to ski with my son on a high school trip. I think I paid $63 online in advance.
> 
> Today I got a promo discount from Epic for $75 off an Epic product for 20-21. Email specifically mentioned the day pass I bought. It's still unlikely I'll buy an Epic pass but that's a pretty good offer.



Still didn’t see mine yet but earlier they said it was coming...


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## yeggous (May 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Still didn’t see mine yet but earlier they said it was coming...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



If you don't receive your code by June 1, give customer service a call.


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## trackbiker (May 27, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Does anyone know any other lift ticket or voucher sellers who just told people to shove it, besides SKI Vermont?
> 
> I could be wrong & probably am, but AFAIK Ski Vermont is the only entity not honoring things like pre-paid vouchers or pre-paid lift tickets next season, for at least a limited spell (e.g. open to December 20th or March 1st to close).  Even some season pass products, which you could certainly make the argument have far less reason to make any concessions at all, are doing so.




I bought an ORDA 4-Pack last summer and have three left. Had planned the use them at Gore the weekend just after they shut down. I haven't heard anything about being able to use them next season.


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## JimG. (May 27, 2020)

trackbiker said:


> I bought an ORDA 4-Pack last summer and have three left. Had planned the use them at Gore the weekend just after they shut down. I haven't heard anything about being able to use them next season.



ORDA has said nothing to season passholders from last season either. Which I interpret to mean no customer accommodation for closing early.


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## trackbiker (May 28, 2020)

JimG. said:


> ORDA has said nothing to season passholders from last season either. Which I interpret to mean no customer accommodation for closing early.



I think you're right. They came out with their 20/21 pass pricing without any mention of giving any credits for the the 19/20 season being cut short.


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