# My new car



## hammer (Jul 20, 2009)

Finally pulled the trigger on a new car...after numerous test drives, we settled on a Volvo S40.

We were looking for several months...main aspects of the car that settled it for us were:


Exterior look...matter of personal taste but we like a car that has some lines
Interior fit/finish and materials...feels nice and solid
Simple yet functional interior layout
Nice amount of interior space for a smaller car...not sure we'd take the whole family for a 4-hour drive (we have a bigger car for that), but the amount of interior space is not much different than our Subaru Outback.
Decent power/pick-up with the 5-cyl turbo engine...not a rocket like a G37 or a BMW 335 but no slouch either
Long warranty and included maintenance
I do admit that I have some concerns about long-term reliability...Volvos are OK (some better than others), but not at the level of Japanese cars.  Just going to hope that we have one of the better cars off of the assembly line.  Luggage space is also limited, but the rear seats fold up so there's plenty of room for 1-2 person ski trips.

Is it the best car?  I doubt it...but it seems like the right car.

Now to get all of the paperwork set before the MA sales tax increase...


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2009)

I like the S40

My uncle has driven an S60 and S80 for his past two cars with very minimal maintenance issues.  While maybe a touch short of the Japanese alternatives, I think it will do better for you than BMW or Audi in that regard.


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## bvibert (Jul 20, 2009)

Nice looking car, congrats!  I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice.


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## Trekchick (Jul 20, 2009)

Sharp looking car. 
Not trying to be a wet blanket, but it doesn't seem to be much of a ski car, you may want to find out what you can get for tires before you suffer a season.  That car is spec-d for 16 inch rims but those almost look like 17's if my eyes aren't deceiving me.(I've been wrong before, and probably will be again)
Overall, I'm sure you'll really enjoy the Volvo.  Sure looks like its fun in the twisties!


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## hammer (Jul 20, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> Sharp looking car.
> Not trying to be a wet blanket, but it doesn't seem to be much of a ski car, you may want to find out what you can get for tires before you suffer a season.  That car is spec-d for 16 inch rims but those almost look like 17's if my eyes aren't deceiving me.(I've been wrong before, and probably will be again)
> Overall, I'm sure you'll really enjoy the Volvo.  Sure looks like its fun in the twisties!


You're right, those are 17-inch rims.  Main hope is that the AWD will help to compensate for tire limitations, but I'll see how that goes.

On the test drive, the handling was pretty balanced...not at the level of a BMW but no complaints.  We also test-drove an S60, which would actually have cost less but the car didn't have quite the pick-up and it was not as sporty.

Main thing I'm glad about is that it doesn't have the run-flat tires.  I read a lot of horror stories about the run flats on BMWs.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2009)

what would the advantage be to having 16 inch rims over 17 inch rims?

couldn't you get a spare pair of 16s to mount snows on?


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## Geoff (Jul 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> You're right, those are 17-inch rims.  Main hope is that the AWD will help to compensate for tire limitations, but I'll see how that goes.



AWD does not help when braking.  You really want dedicated snow tires on smaller rims.  They'll pay for themselves the first time you avoid sliding into a granite curb driving around town.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 20, 2009)

nice..my brother in law has an S40 and it's a dependable vehicle..


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## hammer (Jul 20, 2009)

Geoff said:


> AWD does not help when braking.  You really want dedicated snow tires on smaller rims.  They'll pay for themselves the first time you avoid sliding into a granite curb driving around town.


Good point...it always amazes me how few people realize that.

I agree on the value of snow tires (regardless of whether you have AWD or not), but I usually don't want to go through the hassle factor of swapping out rims and keeping a full set of tires in my basement.  May reconsider, though...


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## Geoff (Jul 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> Good point...it always amazes me how few people realize that.
> 
> I agree on the value of snow tires (regardless of whether you have AWD or not), but I usually don't want to go through the hassle factor of swapping out rims and keeping a full set of tires in my basement.  May reconsider, though...



TireRack.com will sell you a complete bolt-on package that the UPS truck drops at your front door.  I presume Volvos, like most European cars, have the Bosch tire pressure monitoring system in the valve stems.   They'll include those, too.  I did cheap 16" alloy wheels on my GTI.  I wouldn't consider running my summer tires in the snow.  It's pretty frightening.


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## Trekchick (Jul 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> You're right, those are 17-inch rims.  Main hope is that the AWD will help to compensate for tire limitations, but I'll see how that goes.
> 
> On the test drive, the handling was pretty balanced...not at the level of a BMW but no complaints.  We also test-drove an S60, which would actually have cost less but the car didn't have quite the pick-up and it was not as sporty.
> 
> Main thing I'm glad about is that it doesn't have the run-flat tires.  I read a lot of horror stories about the run flats on BMWs.





deadheadskier said:


> what would the advantage be to having 16 inch rims over 17 inch rims?
> 
> couldn't you get a spare pair of 16s to mount snows on?


The AWD will help but you can't usually find a good snow tire for 17's and if you do the wear life is minimal.
You usually can't put 16's on those because they have larger brakes(stopping power for a sporty car) and won't allow a smaller rim.

A good aggressive tread will help a lot but they will not be cheap and the wear life will not be as good as if they were 16's.



Geoff said:


> AWD does not help when braking.  You really want dedicated snow tires on smaller rims.  They'll pay for themselves the first time you avoid sliding into a granite curb driving around town.





hammer said:


> Good point...it always amazes me how few people realize that.
> 
> I agree on the value of snow tires (regardless of whether you have AWD or not), but I usually don't want to go through the hassle factor of swapping out rims and keeping a full set of tires in my basement.  May reconsider, though...



^^^ Tires make a huge difference. 
Check and see if the brakes will allow a different size rim for your winter switch.  That would be helpful.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2009)

Interesting, I had snows on my 17 inch rims this winter and they seemed to do pretty well and not wear down all that much.  I was considering getting a spare pair of 16 rims, but elected to save a couple hundred bucks at the time.


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## severine (Jul 20, 2009)

Nice looking car! I don't know much about Volvos but they do look snazzy.  Congrats!


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## RootDKJ (Jul 20, 2009)

congrats on the new ride


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## mondeo (Jul 20, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> The AWD will help but you can't usually find a good snow tire for 17's and if you do the wear life is minimal.
> You usually can't put 16's on those because they have larger brakes(stopping power for a sporty car) and won't allow a smaller rim.
> 
> A good aggressive tread will help a lot but they will not be cheap and the wear life will not be as good as if they were 16's.
> ...


S40's front brakes are 11.8" diameter, a 16" wheel will fit fine; the larger wheel is mostly looks with 205/50 tires, steering response will be slightly improved. It isn't until you get to performance cars that you start getting into brakes that require 17" wheels (I'm guessing around 12.5" rotors with beefy calipers and up given the lack of clearance with my 13.4" brakes.)

The problem with 17" wheels is that you're basically forced into wide tires, which makes a big difference. Going down to 16s gets you into much narrower tires, which will work much better in the snow. Plus you can get steel wheels, making the wheel+tire package cost about the same as tires without the unmount/mount costs ever spring/fall.


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## andyzee (Jul 20, 2009)

Good Luck!


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## Philpug (Jul 20, 2009)

IIRC, they are a 5x100 (or 114.3?) either way keep an eye on Craigslist for people selling 4 snows, that is how I got a few pair of mine. I like the S40, actually, I like the V50 better, there are a few cool little things that you can program to personalize the car.


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## Johnskiismore (Jul 20, 2009)

Sharp looking car, nice!


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## Geoff (Jul 20, 2009)

Trekchick said:


> The AWD will help but you can't usually find a good snow tire for 17's and if you do the wear life is minimal.
> You usually can't put 16's on those because they have larger brakes(stopping power for a sporty car) and won't allow a smaller rim.
> 
> A good aggressive tread will help a lot but they will not be cheap and the wear life will not be as good as if they were 16's.



That's not how I understand it.

The tire life should be almost identical on 16" and 17" rims.   The outside tire diameter is identical.  You'll probably try to go a little narrower on the 16" winter setup but it will only be a few percent less width so it won't impact tread life.   Tire life on snow tires is mostly impacted by driving style and whether you expose the tire to warm weather.   I drive like a grandma all winter.  No hard cornering at all.  I always try to wait as long as possible to put the tires on and pull them off by April 1.   If you have your snows mounted on spare wheels, it's pretty easy to get the car up on a lift somewhere to bolt them on with short notice.   I've swapped mine in the driveway with a floor jack quite a few times when I couldn't get in to a tire dealer.   It only takes about 5 minutes per tire and you at least know some gorilla didn't cross-thread your lug nuts and weld the wheels to the car.   I own a torque wrench and I get out and re-torque them after an hour anyways even if somebody else is changing them.

The reason you go with a higher profile 16" wheel is to give yourself more sidewall to protect yourself from pot holes.  I have 18" rims and low profile tires on my GTI.  I'd destroy the rims with typical winter driving where you invariably plunge into pot holes all winter no matter how carefully you drive.   With 16" wheels, I have an extra inch of cushion.   

With 17" wheels going down to 16", I'll bet it helps some but probably isn't essential to go smaller if you want to re-use your stock wheels and tire pressure monitoring system.  If the Volvo came with the 18" wheel option and performance summer tires, you'd definitely want to at least run 17" wheels in the winter.

With the typical  winter tire you'd want to run on an AWD Volvo that was seeing ski country duty, they are definitely available in 17".   For example, you can get the new Nokian Hakkapeliitta R, the Hakkapeliitta RSi, and the studded Hakkapeliitta 5 in a 205/50R17.   You can also get the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60 and the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 in that size and you can get them shipped from Tire Rack if your local dealer is price gouging.  If you have a tire dealer willing to swap snow tires on and off your stock wheels without charging you an arm and a leg (and without damaging your wheels), that's the cheapest way to go.


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## mondeo (Jul 20, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Going down to 16s gets you into much narrower tires, which will work much better in the snow. Plus you can get steel wheels, making the wheel+tire package cost about the same as tires without the unmount/mount costs ever spring/fall.


Ok, not much narrower, only 195s available in 16", but still a little better than 205. For the WS-60s, 205/50-17s are $133 vs. 195/60-16s at $104, and as I remember it, steel wheels off Tire Rack can be had for around $25-50 (though that's going back a few years, for 15" wheels at $25 per.) So you're just about breaking even going down a size with new wheels, plus no mounting/balancing every change.


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## hammer (Jul 20, 2009)

mondeo said:


> Ok, not much narrower, only 195s available in 16", but still a little better than 205. For the WS-60s, 205/50-17s are $133 vs. 195/60-16s at $104, and as I remember it, steel wheels off Tire Rack can be had for around $25-50 (though that's going back a few years, for 15" wheels at $25 per.) So you're just about breaking even going down a size with new wheels, plus no mounting/balancing every change.


Wouldn't separate wheels be the way to go?  Cost aside, I'd think that mounting tires twice a year would beat up the stock rims a bit...


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## hammer (Jul 23, 2009)

Took the first drive into work this morning...car is quite composed at 70-80 MPH, surprising for a small car.  Quite a different ride from my Subaru Outback.

Just wondering...we normally never get any of the dealer add-ons but we did pull the trigger on a clear film called Roadblock which they applied to the front bumper, part of the hood, and the side mirrors.  Has anyone else ever had one of these put on?  I checked around auto forums and it seemed like a lot of people were sold on it, and previous cars I've had have their share of front end marks from road "stuff".


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## Geoff (Jul 23, 2009)

hammer said:


> Took the first drive into work this morning...car is quite composed at 70-80 MPH, surprising for a small car.  Quite a different ride from my Subaru Outback.
> 
> Just wondering...we normally never get any of the dealer add-ons but we did pull the trigger on a clear film called Roadblock which they applied to the front bumper, part of the hood, and the side mirrors.  Has anyone else ever had one of these put on?  I checked around auto forums and it seemed like a lot of people were sold on it, and previous cars I've had have their share of front end marks from road "stuff".



I have the 3M stuff on the nose of my GTI.   I did the sheet metal on the front edge of the hood and fenders, not the plastic bumper below.  My last one looked like I took it out in the woods and shot at it with a pellet gun.   It's working so far.  I wish I'd done the rear edge of the driver's door.   I picked up paint chips there from my very narrow garage when I was living in Portsmouth, NH.  

I really should get some touch-up paint for my car and get to the paint chips before winter.  It's orange over white primer so the chips are all pretty obvious.  I have all the ultra fine wet sandpaper, sanding blocks, and compound to make it look like new.


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## campgottagopee (Jul 23, 2009)

hammer said:


> Took the first drive into work this morning...car is quite composed at 70-80 MPH, surprising for a small car.  Quite a different ride from my Subaru Outback.
> 
> Just wondering...we normally never get any of the dealer add-ons but we did pull the trigger on a clear film called* Roadblock* which they applied to the front bumper, part of the hood, and the side mirrors.  Has anyone else ever had one of these put on?  I checked around auto forums and it seemed like a lot of people were sold on it, and previous cars I've had have their share of front end marks from road "stuff".



You'll be glad you have that---will save that "sand blast" look in couple years time.


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## ComeBackMudPuddles (Jul 23, 2009)

nice ride!  safe, reliable, scandinavian.  

you'll be thinking of the swedish bikini team every time you drive her....time to plan a nice long road trip!


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## Glenn (Jul 23, 2009)

Sweet! I've always liked the lines on those cars! 

If you do go snows, get separate wheels. I I used to do the change out myself every fall and spring....in my driveway.


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## WJenness (Jul 24, 2009)

I've circled a few things that seem wrong about this car...

(I realize it's a personal choice, and I respect yours, mine would have been different is all)







Automatic transmissions just seem like a waste of a 'fun' or 'good' car to me... YMMV.

Otherwise I think you got yourself a nice ride... If I find a bunch of money between now and when I have to replace my car, it'll probably come down to Audi S4, S5 or Volvo S60R.

-w


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 24, 2009)

WJenness said:


> I've circled a few things that seem wrong about this car...
> 
> (I realize it's a personal choice, and I respect yours, mine would have been different is all)
> 
> ...



When I saw that I thought..sweet..I can drive it!!!!  Sweet interior and it looks like power seats!!!


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## hammer (Jul 24, 2009)

WJenness said:


> I've circled a few things that seem wrong about this car...
> 
> (I realize it's a personal choice, and I respect yours, mine would have been different is all)
> 
> ...


Can you believe it?  The T5 AWD doesn't come with a stick.  The spouse does not drive a stick so I would have had to go with the automatic anyway.  I've driven automatics for some time so it's no big deal, and if I want to let the engine rev a bit more I can always use the paddle shifter.

We test drove an S60 as well...nice car but the ride wasn't quite as sporty, and the standard T5 engine (same as on the S40) had OK pickup but sounded noisier in this car.  Interior room was only marginally more.

Right now they have big incentives on the S60...I think the car's due for a redesign.


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## WJenness (Jul 24, 2009)

hammer said:


> Can you believe it?  The T5 AWD doesn't come with a stick.  The spouse does not drive a stick so I would have had to go with the automatic anyway.  I've driven automatics for some time so it's no big deal, and if I want to let the engine rev a bit more I can always use the paddle shifter.
> 
> We test drove an S60 as well...nice car but the ride wasn't quite as sporty, and the standard T5 engine (same as on the S40) had OK pickup but sounded noisier in this car.  Interior room was only marginally more.
> 
> Right now they have big incentives on the S60...I think the car's due for a redesign.



Such a shame (no stick available)... Seems to happen quite a bit these days...

My first two cars were automatics, and I had wanted to learn stick... My girlfriend taught me on her car... The next car I bought (my A4) is a stick, and it will be that way until A: I can't get a car I like with a stick or B: I'm too old and feeble to operate a clutch (but then I probably shouldn't be driving anyway).

You might be right on the S60 redesign... The S60 itself I don't find that interesting... The S60*R* however, is it's own beast...

-w


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## hammer (Jul 24, 2009)

WJenness said:


> You might be right on the S60 redesign... The S60 itself I don't find that interesting... The S60*R* however, is it's own beast...


Didn't test drive the S60R...would be nice if it was available with AWD, though.  They only pair AWD with the base engine.


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## WJenness (Jul 24, 2009)

That's the thing with the S60R (at least on the '04-'07 models, don't think there was an R in '08 or '09, but I expect it's coming back), it has Haldex AWD and an available 6 speed (see wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_S60)

And it looks like you're right on the redesign. "The last of the first generation S60 rolled off the factory line in Ghent in March 2009." So they're just trying to get rid of them now...

I imagine the S60R will follow the standard S60 by about a year when the new design is introduced.

-w


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 24, 2009)

The big question is what kind of amazing deal did you get on the S40?  I know car dealers are practically giving cars away..


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## WJenness (Jul 24, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The big question is what kind of amazing deal did you get on the S40?  I know car dealers are practically giving cars away..



Seriously. Some of the car commercials I've heard on the radio in the past week have surprised me.

-w


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## wa-loaf (Jul 24, 2009)

WJenness said:


> Seriously. Some of the car commercials I've heard on the radio in the past week have surprised me.
> 
> -w



They are taking that rebate into the price they are advertising, so unless you have a used car that qualifies you are SOL.

I've always wanted a V70R wagon. Nothing like 350hp family car. :-D


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## hammer (Jul 24, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> The big question is what kind of amazing deal did you get on the S40?  I know car dealers are practically giving cars away..


I got a good deal but not an amazing deal...went through a buying service, and with manufacturer to dealer incentives it was a little over $4000 off of MSRP.  That sounds pretty good, but the cars are expensive to begin with.

The S60s had higher incentives and I could have bought one for less than the S40, but the S40 was a better "fit" for the type of car I wanted.


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## hammer (Jul 24, 2009)

WJenness said:


> That's the thing with the S60R (at least on the '04-'07 models, don't think there was an R in '08 or '09, but I expect it's coming back), it has Haldex AWD and an available 6 speed (see wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_S60)
> 
> And it looks like you're right on the redesign. "The last of the first generation S60 rolled off the factory line in Ghent in March 2009." So they're just trying to get rid of them now...
> 
> ...


I guess the S40 engine isn't quite the same as the S60...

From the Volvo web site:

S40 T5:  Horsepower 227 @ 5,000 RPM; Torque 236 @ 1,500-5,000 RPM
S60 2.5T:  Horsepower 208 @ 5,000 RPM; Torque 236 @ 1,500-4,500 RPM
S60 T5:  Horsepower 257 @ 5,500 RPM; Torque 258 @ 2,100-5,000 RPM

I don't even see the S60R...did they stop selling those?


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 24, 2009)

hammer said:


> I got a good deal but not an amazing deal...went through a buying service, and with manufacturer to dealer incentives it was a little over $4000 off of MSRP.  That sounds pretty good, but the cars are expensive to begin with.
> 
> The S60s had higher incentives and I could have bought one for less than the S40, but the S40 was a better "fit" for the type of car I wanted.



What exactly is a buying service?  I always look up what deal holdback is as well...I'm guessing with the $4k off you got it for high 20s??


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## hammer (Jul 24, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> What exactly is a buying service?  I always look up what deal holdback is as well...I'm guessing with the $4k off you got it for high 20s??


I insure through USAA...they have a car buying service where you can get a "fixed" price for individual cars, usually near factory invoice (or below if there are incentives).

We've gone through this service and another through Costco in the past and we feel that we get a good deal with minimal price negotiation.  Not all vehicles are listed, however...for popular ones, you are on your own.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Jul 24, 2009)

hammer said:


> I insure through USAA...they have a car buying service where you can get a "fixed" price for individual cars, usually near factory invoice (or below if there are incentives).
> 
> We've gone through this service and another through Costco in the past and we feel that we get a good deal with minimal price negotiation.  Not all vehicles are listed, however...for popular ones, you are on your own.



Right on so what was the #???  I really enjoy the negotiation part and putting dealers against each other and then right when I'm about to sign.having second thoughts and getting another couple hundred off..


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## WJenness (Jul 24, 2009)

hammer said:


> I guess the S40 engine isn't quite the same as the S60...
> 
> From the Volvo web site:
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's not in the lineup at the moment... Unsurprising, as with the performance sedan market (S60R, Audi S4, etc.) you get into a situation where the consumer is a lot more selective about the build of the car vs. the price... trying to get rid of the last model year of it when people know there's a design refresh coming can be murder on the manufacturer and the dealer as you move many fewer units of them anyway... so stopping production of the sportier version a year early is not surprising.. particularly in the current / recent economy / gas price situation we've been in.

-w


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## bigbog (Jul 24, 2009)

*snows with AWD!*

You'll luv quality snows, with some grip, with AWD.  ...But don't forget the added weight(cement block or small box of dirt) in the trunk..over the axle...when snow arrives in force.
You'll be amazed at increase in winter performance with the weight balanced over the axles.
$.01


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## hammer (Aug 25, 2009)

So I priced out a wheel and winter tire package on tirerack.com...total cost including shipping is just under $1200. :-o

I could save about $250 if I don't get the pressure sensors, but then I'd have to look at the nuisance warning all winter.

Now to figure out when I need to pull the trigger...ouch.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 25, 2009)

what are you getting?

I forget what I purchased last winter, but it was just a basic snow for 17 inch rims.  $400 or so delivered.  I think with rims a package was around 700, but those were the cheep rims.  The tires worked great and I don't necessarily feel the need to have 'stylish' rims for winter driving.

Just seems like a ton of dough for tires


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## Puck it (Aug 25, 2009)

bigbog said:


> You'll luv quality snows, with some grip, with AWD. ...But don't forget the added weight(cement block or small box of dirt) in the trunk..over the axle...when snow arrives in force.
> You'll be amazed at increase in winter performance with the weight balanced over the axles.
> $.01


 
Before doing this I would look into the manufacturer's weight balancing.  With BMW's, they are pretty much evenly distributed on the four wheels.  Doing this to a BMW screws with the handling.  I have never run pure snow tires on any vehicle.  A good pair of all seasons and caution will save you a lot of money.  I grew up and went to school in some hefty snow belts ( Up state NY and WNY).  Never needed.  I have even had a 325i Std no traction without snows and it was fine around New England.  

The only car that had winter tire and they were all season's was my X5.  The reason being the 19" wheels with the sport performance tires were ice skates in the cold. My current truck is the FJ cruiser which I love more the X5 has all season and it was fine with them.  They are worn out now and I will be going with all terrains for off roading. 

My two cents.


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## hammer (Aug 25, 2009)

Tires: 205/55R16 Dunlop SP Winter, $98/each, $392 total.
Wheels: 16x7 Sport Edition F2 Silver, $88/each, $352 total.
Tire Pressure System: $59 each, $236 total
Valve sleeves:  $7 each, $28 total
Mounting and balance:  $0
Road Hazard:  $12 each, $48 total
Shipping: $129
Tire Totes:  $40 (for storage and transport to shop)

What would I save by going with cheaper rims?

As I mentioned, I could save about $250 if I didn't care about the sensors...


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## deadheadskier (Aug 25, 2009)

looks like shipping or mounting went way up?  Over $100 a tire to mount and ship seems like a lot more than what I was looking at last year.


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## hammer (Aug 25, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> looks like shipping or mounting went way up?  Over $100 a tire to mount and ship seems like a lot more than what I was looking at last year.


Edited my post to put all of the details in.

Just for grins, I checked tire prices on costco.com and they were about the same...and their winter tire selection wasn't as good.


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## Puck it (Aug 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> Edited my post to put all of the details in.
> 
> Just for grins, I checked tire prices on costco.com and they were about the same...and their winter tire selection wasn't as good.


 

What is on the car now for tires include the size and brand?


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## hammer (Aug 25, 2009)

Puck it said:


> What is on the car now for tires include the size and brand?


I think they are P205/50R17, Michelin Pilot HX MXM.  Have read that they do not do well in snow.  Dry grip is pretty good but they are noisy.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 25, 2009)

why do you need new tires and wheels?  When I used to have snow tires..I just had the tires..but I am pretty clueless when it comes to cars..


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## deadheadskier (Aug 25, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> why do you need new tires and wheels?  When I used to have snow tires..I just had the tires..but I am pretty clueless when it comes to cars..



If you have the storage, over the life of the vehicle having separate wheel set ups will save you money.


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## Geoff (Aug 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> Tires: 205/55R16 Dunlop SP Winter, $98/each, $392 total.
> Wheels: 16x7 Sport Edition F2 Silver, $88/each, $352 total.
> Tire Pressure System: $59 each, $236 total
> Valve sleeves:  $7 each, $28 total
> ...



My VW winter setup is the same size a little less than 2 years ago
$104/tire for Blizzak WS-60's
$65 for Sport Edition D3 Silver (on sale)
$55 for TPMS (the Bosch system)
$6.99 for a fit kit
$113.40 for shipping

Total: $1,037.36

I didn't get road hazard or tire totes.   Other than getting the rims on sale, the prices don't seem to have gone up that much


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## Puck it (Aug 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> I think they are P205/50R17, Michelin Pilot HX MXM. Have read that they do not do well in snow. Dry grip is pretty good but they are noisy.


 

Tire rack rating is only 3.5. That is bad. To save somw money, I would take off and go with Yokohamas. The Geolander is a great all season tire. Khumo and Hankook make some great all seasons too. Look at the ratings on tire rack or talk to a rep there.

I am going with the Yokohama Geolander A/T's for FJ this fall after I run the Dunlop Grandtreks bald.


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## Glenn (Aug 25, 2009)

Hit craigslist and your local seller paper. There are always people ditching snow tires and wheels. You may be able to find a decent combo. Or, at the very least, a set of stock wheels you can use for the snow tires.


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## Puck it (Aug 25, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Hit craigslist and your local seller paper. There are always people ditching snow tires and wheels. You may be able to find a decent combo. Or, at the very least, a set of stock wheels you can use for the snow tires.


 
Good point.  I forgot that is how I got the BMW 17" and Michelin all season for the X5.  I got them off the X5 forum from a guy in NC for $750 brand new.  He wanted to get them out of his garage.  It was great deal.  The BMW stock alloys were like 1200 at thetime alone.  I am not kidding the tires were brand new and all ready mounted and balanced.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 25, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> If you have the storage, over the life of the vehicle having separate wheel set ups will save you money.



?????? Why???  I've never needed new wheels..


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## wa-loaf (Aug 25, 2009)

I've been going to Town Fair Tire the last few years. The prices when you count shipping are the same and the free flat fixes, tire rotation, extras, local shop are all worth it to me. I do need to get a second set of rims for the car though.


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## Geoff (Aug 25, 2009)

deadheadskier said:


> If you have the storage, over the life of the vehicle having separate wheel set ups will save you money.



Sort of.   Winter wheels and TPMS cost $400 (steel) to $600+ (alloy).  That's quite a few years of mounting and balancing and you have the advantage of having your tires rebalanced every 6 months.   Before tire pressure monitoring systems, it was a no-brainer.   Now, the economics are a little different.   

If you have low profile tires on big expensive wheels, you probably want smaller wheels and higher profile tires to have enough sidewall to deal with winter pot holes.   Snow tires for 18" wheels also cost more than 16" tires so you have that savings.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 25, 2009)

I take back my comment regarding hammer's price being too expensive.  I'm having a hard time finding a used rim for my Hyundai under $155 shipped.  I hit a pot whole and bent it slightly.


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## RootDKJ (Aug 25, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> ?????? Why???  I've never needed new wheels..


Easier to switch from regular tires to snows by having a 2nd set of rims with the snow tires already mounted (and balanced) on them.


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## Glenn (Aug 25, 2009)

RootDKJ said:


> Easier to switch from regular tires to snows by having a 2nd set of rims with the snow tires already mounted (and balanced) on them.



x2. 30 minute job in your driveway. Even faster if you have air tools.


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## GrilledSteezeSandwich (Aug 25, 2009)

Glenn said:


> x2. 30 minute job in your driveway. Even faster if you have air tools.



Wow..I'm impressed...I don't ever see myself doing that..I let the experts change my tires..


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## Vortex (Aug 25, 2009)

Nice house, to hell with the car.  I must have been sleeping on this. We have had pm's.  I bought a S-40 from lovering.... Red.  2 wheel drive. So far so good.  My wife wanted a safe car for our soon to be driving son to learn and be safe in.


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## hammer (Aug 25, 2009)

Bob R said:


> Nice house, to hell with the car.  I must have been sleeping on this. We have had pm's.  I bought a S-40 from lovering.... Red.  2 wheel drive. So far so good.  My wife wanted a safe car for our soon to be driving son to learn and be safe in.


So far so good here as well...main problem I'm having is keeping the speed down, the car seems to be quite comfortable doing 75-80...:wink:


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## Vortex (Aug 25, 2009)

hammer said:


> So far so good here as well...main problem I'm having is keeping the speed down, the car seems to be quite comfortable doing 75-80...:wink:




I do feel a change post 70mph.  It seems to hug the road more.  Not a bs story.  You can feel the suspension change and handling change.


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## Glenn (Aug 25, 2009)

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:


> ..I let the experts change my tires..



The problem I've run across...they aren't always "experts". Taking the car back to get it done right is a PITA.


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## WJenness (Aug 25, 2009)

Glenn said:


> The problem I've run across...they aren't always "experts". Taking the car back to get it done right is a PITA.



This is true...

I'm starting to do more and more jobs on my own for this reason, as well as the fact that it saves some cash... but I enjoy doing it as well. A friend and I help each other out with Car work, so it works out nicely.

-w


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## Glenn (Aug 25, 2009)

I've had some crappy experiences with Town Fair tire so I tend to avoid them. I actually bought A/T tires for the Jeep through the private dealer where we bought our A6..and they only deal with German cars. The tech there managed to ballance the wheels correctly and hid the tap-a-weights nicely behind the spokes of the wheels. The last time I went to Town Fair, it took three trips to the alighment right. Fawk that.


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## WJenness (Aug 25, 2009)

Glenn said:


> I've had some crappy experiences with Town Fair tire so I tend to avoid them. I actually bought A/T tires for the Jeep through the private dealer where we bought our A6..and they only deal with German cars. The tech there managed to ballance the wheels correctly and hid the tap-a-weights nicely behind the spokes of the wheels. The last time I went to Town Fair, it took three trips to the alighment right. Fawk that.



This.

I had Town Fair tell me that my two rear rims were 'severely bent' and as such they couldn't rotate my tires... I went to a wheel shop who looked at my rims and said 'your wheels are perfect'... they then rebalanced my tires and my car drove 10x better.

I went to town fair to buy a set of tires recently as I had gotten a gift certificate for there, but that will be the last time I shop there.

-w


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## wa-loaf (Aug 25, 2009)

Glenn said:


> I've had some crappy experiences with Town Fair tire so I tend to avoid them. I actually bought A/T tires for the Jeep through the private dealer where we bought our A6..and they only deal with German cars. The tech there managed to ballance the wheels correctly and hid the tap-a-weights nicely behind the spokes of the wheels. The last time I went to Town Fair, it took three trips to the alighment right. Fawk that.





WJenness said:


> This.
> 
> I had Town Fair tell me that my two rear rims were 'severely bent' and as such they couldn't rotate my tires... I went to a wheel shop who looked at my rims and said 'your wheels are perfect'... they then rebalanced my tires and my car drove 10x better.
> 
> ...



Hmm, never had a problem with them through 3 sets of tires. I'll be sure to pay attention to whats going on if I go back again.


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## WJenness (Aug 25, 2009)

wa-loaf said:


> Hmm, never had a problem with them through 3 sets of tires. I'll be sure to pay attention to whats going on if I go back again.



I'm sure it's highly dependent on the individual tech...

The tech I had an issue with was up in Nashua...

I went to Billerica for my new set of tires, and they seemed to do an acceptable job... But then my friend went there (Billerica) a couple of weeks later and had some issues...

Luck of the draw I suppose.

-w


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## Warp Daddy (Aug 25, 2009)

Nice wheels --Nicer Crib !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Vortex (Aug 25, 2009)

I just bought 4 all season Radials for my explorer from town fair tire in Nashua a week ago. I needed them to pass inspection. They did not have what I wanted. They discounted the upper model to get me to buy what they had.  About an hour of negotiating and I saved 150 bucks   I hope it will wok out.   I had a coupon in my hand from BJ's.  I think that helped me a bit.  I hate buying car stuff.  I just don't know jack shi- about it.


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## Geoff (Aug 25, 2009)

WJenness said:


> I'm sure it's highly dependent on the individual tech...
> 
> The tech I had an issue with was up in Nashua...
> 
> ...



The Town Fair Tire in Salem, NH refused to swap stock VW alloy wheels with summer tires on them with stock VW steel wheels with Nokians on them.  That is the last time I ever set foot in a Town Fair Tire store.   It's not like I showed up with $4K worth of BBS wheels.


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## Geoff (Aug 25, 2009)

Glenn said:


> x2. 30 minute job in your driveway. Even faster if you have air tools.



I have a floor jack and a torque wrench.  I've swapped snows off & on several times.   My time is worth more than the $20.00 to have somebody put the cars up on a lift.


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## WJenness (Aug 25, 2009)

Geoff said:


> The Town Fair Tire in Salem, NH refused to swap stock VW alloy wheels with summer tires on them with stock VW steel wheels with Nokians on them.  That is the last time I ever set foot in a Town Fair Tire store.   It's not like I showed up with $4K worth of BBS wheels.



Yeah, they seem to be very odd about what they will / won't do.

My buddy went there with his 2000 S4. When he bought it last year, there were aftermarket wheels on it (same size and general style as stock), he hit a pothole and wrecked the inner bead on the wheel... He went to them to get some new tires / straighten the wheel, at first they said they could do the wheel, so he paid them and they started to work, then they said the wheel was too bad and he had to take it somewhere else to get straightened... then come back and they'd mount it for him.

He went to the other place, and the wheel cracked while being straightened (it happens sometimes, no big deal)... and it turned out that the particular wheels he had were discontinued... So he had to pick new wheels. He had wanted to upgrade to 18" wheels eventually anyway, and wanted the RS4 replicas from a particular manufacturer. He went back to Town Fair to inform him of the cracked wheel and his plans. They said 'no problem, you have 30 days to exchange the tires, we can order the wheels for you if you want, but it'll probably be more expensive.'

He went home, ordered them, and when they came in he brought them down to Town Fair for them to mount the new rubber, balance, and install on the car. This is when he started running into issues.

First it was "We don't mount new wheels, we don't want to damage them." Then it was "Well, we'll mount new wheels, but only if you buy them from us." After convincing them that he did exactly as he was told they relented, then they came back and said "You don't have the right wheel bolts for these wheels, go to autozone and buy the right ones, we don't have any here." He tried to convince them that the wheels were designed to be used with the OEM bolts, but he had to call the wheel manufacturer and get them to tell Town Fair that it was designed to be used with OEM bolts.

They eventually caved and did the work (and it came out pretty nice), but it was a frustrating experience and I don't think my friend will be going back there.

-w


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## Glenn (Aug 26, 2009)

I took my VW to a local guy back when I had it. He had a buddy who worked for TownFair. The guys work on comission; so that why two people going in a week apart with the same vehicle end up with different tires. It's whatever they're "pushing" that week. 

The ballancing problem happens a lot there. I guess they're not overly timely in calibrating their machines. Those guys do a huge volume of tires...and that's all they do..tires. So those machines probably need to be calibrated more often.


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## hammer (Oct 22, 2009)

4000 mile update...mixed. :???:


The car has been real nice to drive...each time I drive it I enjoy it more.  The engine has a nice broad torque band and I usually don't notice any turbo lag.  Far more comfortable at 70-80 MPH than any car I've previously owned.  Handles nice on the twisties...not as tight as other sportier cars but well balanced for me. :smile:
Road noise with the OEM tires is a bit high...don't know if I'd go with those when they need to be replaced.
The thick B pillar (which I'm guessing is for side impact protection) makes for blind spots, so if you aren't the type to turn your head when changing lanes this isn't the car for you.
Fully integrated iPod/USB connection and Bluetooth (which I know is available in a lot of new cars) is real sweet.
There are a few "what were the Swedes thinking" design issues:
- The key fob is huge and the car doesn't have a push button start
- There is no way to get an audible indication when you enable the locks/alarm
Now for the big downer...had the car in for a 4000 mile oil change with my local independent mechanic and he found a leak in the angle gear (which I think is Volvo's name for a transfer case).  I didn't notice it before then because there's a big shield under the engine which catches minor leaks.  Should be no big deal to fix, but a failure on a new car is a bit disconcerting, and the dealer has had the car for 4 days and counting. :angry:
Jury's out...if the current repair is the only thing that goes wrong for the next few years I'll be OK, but if this is a sign of things to come then I better buy an extended warranty, dump the car when the warranty's up, or save my pennies...


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## SKIQUATTRO (Oct 22, 2009)

Congrats on the new car....

always amuzes me about car sterotypes and the reputations they get...I've had 3 audi's and never ever had any issues as people say they have.  I got the wife a new volvo xc70 this past xmas and this thing has spent more time back at the dealer than in my driveway (drivetrain went at 8K miles, various suspension issues, wiper motors shot etc)  I have 2 friends that have Toyota Sequoia's..1 have over 100K and loves it, the other as 40K miles and its been a sore in his side since he bought it....


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## SKIQUATTRO (Oct 22, 2009)

my understanding is that the volvos (my 2008 xc70 included) are really FWD but will send power to slipping wheels when needed (not like awd of audi or subi)

I wanted to get a FWD car and put snows on it as it'd be cheaper than paying for AWD with crap stock tires...we got the car 'cause the wife liked it, she liked the beefier look and higher seat height than the V70...my feeling is that a fwd with snows is better and a cheaper alternative than buying AWD (mostly marketing hype) with stock tires....


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## Glenn (Oct 22, 2009)

Sounds like that's somewhat of a common problem. Interesting device too. It's needed to run the power to the rear wheels. Since the engine is set up east/west, it has to send the power north/south. 

I did a quick google: 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...d=1&ved=0CAwQBSgA&q=angle+gear,+volvo&spell=1


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## hammer (Feb 24, 2010)

Just hit over 10K miles...very pleased with the car.  No additional mechanical issues, not that I'm expecting any.

Had some initial concerns about handling in the snow with the low-profile all-seasons (yes, I should get snows), but the car did just fine during the last snowy commute, had no issues on the un-plowed backroads.

I realize that the AWD system is really FWD most of the time, but the power application to the rear wheels is pretty quick.


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## WakeboardMom (Feb 24, 2010)

hammer said:


> Just hit over 10K miles...very pleased with the car.  No additional mechanical issues, not that I'm expecting any.
> 
> Had some initial concerns about handling in the snow with the low-profile all-seasons (yes, I should get snows), but the car did just fine during the last snowy commute, had no issues on the un-plowed backroads.
> 
> I realize that the AWD system is really FWD most of the time, but the power application to the rear wheels is pretty quick.



That's great that you had no issues on the un-plowed roads.  We used to put my C70 (convertible) away for the winter; but then did what others here have advised.  We bought a cheap set of rims and put snow tires on it.  My daughter drove it last winter with no problems.  (She's away at school this year, so it's been garaged this winter.)

Glad to hear you're likin' your car.  We've loved our Volvos...even after the first one we owned wasn't the greatest.  (1985 - first generation turbo had some issues.)  Glad we gave them another chance.  We love the XC70.  Hope you continue to enjoy it!


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