# What in the world is going on at wildcat…



## Hockeyski1998 (Dec 18, 2021)

Does anyone have the inside scoop on what may be going on at wildcat? Bought the epic pass this year simply to ski wildcat and so far it’s not looking like a good investment…


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## FBGM (Dec 18, 2021)

Someone hasn’t read the Vail Sucks thread…

Spark Notes. It’s like 180 pages of Vail Sucks so yeah…


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## Hockeyski1998 (Dec 18, 2021)

FBGM said:


> Someone hasn’t read the Vail Sucks thread…
> 
> Spark Notes. It’s like 180 pages of Vail Sucks so yeah…


It’s a lot to go through… that’s why i started this thread. To see what is going on specifically going on at wildcat


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## abc (Dec 18, 2021)

Short answer, no one seem to know what Vail is doing at Wildcat. All people could see is Vail is they aren't doing what they need to do. Hence the "Vail Sucks" thread. Full of speculations as to "why"....

Knock yourself out


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2021)

Lots of vacant positions one can assume is due to lower wages than the competition + an extremely frugal snowmaking philosophy = shitty experience other than when Mother Nature delivers.  

Oh, and more crowded than ever before due to bargain basement pass prices.  

Was a regular since 07 and pass holder since 2012.  Was ......


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## gittist (Dec 18, 2021)

Nothing is going on at Wildcat, that's the problem!


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## snoseek (Dec 18, 2021)

Its bad enough its probably worth its own thread. It will be just like last year where it will snow (hopefully), everybody will forget they made next to no snow as stuff opens, and then when spring comes and trail counts plummet and they gotta shut early everyone gets pissed again.

I honestly gambled thinking they couldnt possibly outdo last years trainwreck and I have never been more wrong.

Pray for snow.


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## Dickc (Dec 18, 2021)

Any more word on the rumor that the mid mountain pumping station is a no go?


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## Wolfman (Dec 18, 2021)

Snowmaking is understaffed and the snowmaking system is quite old and full of gremlins. Several new pumps have been added but there's lots more work to do. Plus, very very bad natural snowfall in general. Hopefully that will change soon. Wildcat has never been a mountain where snowmaking and groomed terrain has been a chief attraction, so it's having a hard time with the lack of snow.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2021)

While yes, Wildcat has never been known for their snowmaking, this is by far the worst I've ever seen.  Since I started skiing there regularly in 07 (except for 14-15 ?? when the system blew up) they'd have Lynx, Polecat, Catapult to Bobcat and the Snowcat area by now.  And those trails would be blown deep.   Usually by Xmas week Wild Kitten and Cheetah.  Followed up by Middle Catapult, Lower Catapult and AlleyCat by MLK.  Then during good years they'd give us bonus snowmaking on Black Cat and Starr Line towards the end of January. 

Most alarming this winter is there has been PLENTY of days that no snow has been made at all at Wildcat, Attitash, Crotched or Sunapee when their competition is getting after it.   They clearly have someone from corporate saying that unless it's well below 32 for at least 24 hours, don't turn on the guns in New Hampshire.


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## abc (Dec 18, 2021)

This is fast turning into another Vail sucks thread. Do we really need two?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 18, 2021)

abc said:


> This is fast turning into another Vail sucks thread. Do we really need two?



Yes


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## eatskisleep (Dec 18, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Yes


Agreed. It sounds like Vail is at least making a somewhat effort at Attitash. Ignoring Wildcat.


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## Wolfman (Dec 18, 2021)

You wanted the scoop, that was it. Everything else is speculation.


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## slatham (Dec 18, 2021)

I think someone needs to do an expedition and ask the staff some questions in an off the record, stealthy way.


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## MadKitty (Dec 18, 2021)

slatham said:


> I think someone needs to do an expedition and ask the staff some questions in an off the record, stealthy way.


Already did that. They can't pump water to the top. They had pumps rebuilt this summer and one of them didn't work when they turned them on. They also have no staff, even less than last year. Check out this Instagram account for the local mood on vail. Found this in their social media comments before it got deleted:









						Wildcat Mountain Corporate (@wildcatmountaincorporate) • Instagram photos and videos
					

513 Followers, 240 Following, 51 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Wildcat Mountain Corporate (@wildcatmountaincorporate)




					www.instagram.com


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## thetrailboss (Dec 18, 2021)

Hockeyski1998 said:


> Does anyone have the inside scoop on what may be going on at wildcat? Bought the epic pass this year simply to ski wildcat and so far it’s not looking like a good investment…


It's now the Vail experience.  Aren't you excited?

Because of the cost-cutting, their stock rose .54% yesterday to $322.21.  A win.


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## NYDB (Dec 18, 2021)

maybe peaks is to blame.  letting the snowmaking infrastructure rot (if that's really the case as stated above) while they spent 80mil at mount snow.  

maybe Vail just underestimated how bad it was.


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## snoseek (Dec 18, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> maybe peaks is to blame.  letting the snowmaking infrastructure rot (if that's really the case as stated above) while they spent 80mil at mount snow.
> 
> maybe Vail just underestimated how bad it was.


Peaks definitely let things go but day to day operations are the biggest issue IMO. They just dont have the staff it seems and it appears little support from Broomfield. I gotta feel for the staff they do have and hope people dont go all Karen on the actual employees because I'm sure theyre worked


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## eatskisleep (Dec 18, 2021)

MadKitty said:


> Already did that. They can't pump water to the top. They had pumps rebuilt this summer and one of them didn't work when they turned them on. They also have no staff, even less than last year. Check out this Instagram account for the local mood on vail. Found this in their social media comments before it got deleted:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ll have to save that page! I am not on Instagram but that page is pure gold.


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## Kingslug20 (Dec 18, 2021)

Its disgusting..ski resorts ..at least to people like us are not numbers...unfortunately..we do not matter...so now..wildcat is toast.


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## Dickc (Dec 18, 2021)

Wolfman said:


> Snowmaking is understaffed and the snowmaking system is quite old and full of gremlins. Several new pumps have been added but there's lots more work to do. Plus, very very bad natural snowfall in general. Hopefully that will change soon. Wildcat has never been a mountain where snowmaking and groomed terrain has been a chief attraction, so it's having a hard time with the lack of snow.


Thanks Wolfman.


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## MadKitty (Dec 18, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> maybe peaks is to blame.  letting the snowmaking infrastructure rot (if that's really the case as stated above) while they spent 80mil at mount snow.
> 
> maybe Vail just underestimated how bad it was.


lol it's more like vail has far too few employees at many of their areas. Their competitors don't have the same problem nearly to the same degree.


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## MadKitty (Dec 18, 2021)

Wolfman said:


> Snowmaking is understaffed and the snowmaking system is quite old and full of gremlins. Several new pumps have been added but there's lots more work to do. Plus, very very bad natural snowfall in general. Hopefully that will change soon. Wildcat has never been a mountain where snowmaking and groomed terrain has been a chief attraction, so it's having a hard time with the lack of snow.


True to a degree but mostly bs. MUCH bigger problem is lack of staff.


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## MadKitty (Dec 18, 2021)

Dickc said:


> Thanks Wolfman.


Thinking is hard bruh!


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## eatskisleep (Dec 18, 2021)

Looks like they are letting us know they have a few snow makers on the mountain...


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## ThatGuy (Dec 18, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> Looks like they are letting us know they have a few snow makers on the mountain...


Okemo must've had a few spare snowmakers lying around


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## thetrailboss (Dec 18, 2021)

eatskisleep said:


> View attachment 52439
> 
> Looks like they are letting us know they have a few snow makers on the mountain...


All three of them—the Attitash Snowmaker, the Crotched Snowmaker, and the Wildcat Snowmaker.  Wildcat won the lotto today.


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## chuckstah (Dec 18, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> All three of them—the Attitash Snowmaker, the Crotched Snowmaker, and the Wildcat Snowmaker.  Wildcat won the lotto today.


Pretty much. The NH mountains are being staffed primarily by patrol and ski school staff. They forgot to hire the rest of the positions. Sunapee snow makers were sent to Okemo for a bit. Never ending experience of a lifetime. I wonder if Crotched will ever open?  Last in the state likely, save a rope tow operation it 2.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 19, 2021)

The worst part there is not only have they lost the core of experience and ops knowledge, not only are they short on maintenance staff, but inexperienced snowmakers and shorthanded crews create broken machinery as reliably as cutting pass prices generates sales!


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## 2Planker (Dec 19, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Lots of vacant positions one can assume is due to lower wages than the competition + an extremely frugal snowmaking philosophy = shitty experience other than when Mother Nature delivers.
> 
> Oh, and more crowded than ever before due to bargain basement pass prices.
> 
> Was a regular since 07 and pass holder since 2012.  Was ......


Was a regular since '75. Worked for Patrol for 20 years...
 Not any more....


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## Newpylong (Dec 20, 2021)

Re: Wildcat and Attitash.

No one spent more money on snowmaking at those two places than Peaks did. I did not like their management style (the Boyds were turds to put it mildly and it was a good ol' boy mentality) but they spent the money on snowmaking. Wildcat had their booster station entirely replaced, tons of victaulic pipe was replaced and lots of Low E was purchased.

They installed tons of fans, Low E, replaced most of the abysmal ASC valve stations, and a ton of new pipe at Attitash too.

Both of those two places have suffered imensely from the loss of institutional knowledge, as well as the Vail bean counters who have shunned all things New Hampshire. Sunapee has two routes off the top, no South Peak, North or Sun Bowl. Crotched isn't even open yet. No Bear Peak at Attitash. No summit at Wildcat.

You pay for the Walmart experience you're going to get it, except perhaps at the flagship store.

Anyone who buys in on it can't complain. There has never a better time to ski independent.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 20, 2021)

People might disagree with how Peaks upgraded snowmaking, but you have to admit they did upgrade snowmaking.


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> Anyone who buys in on it can't complain. There has never a better time to ski independent.


Yes, if you continually buy into it, I agree. Last year was the first they owned Wildcat and COVID made the season so fucked I couldn’t ascertain how they’d run it in a normal season. 

We’re not normal yet but it’s now clear how they regard their NH properties so, short of a miraculous January turnaround (not happening) I’m pretty sure I’m done. I did not see this level of neglect coming.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2021)

Edd said:


> Yes, if you continually buy into it, I agree. Last year was the first they owned Wildcat and COVID made the season so fucked I couldn’t ascertain how they’d run it in a normal season.
> 
> We’re not normal yet but it’s now clear how they regard their NH properties so, short of a miraculous January turnaround (not happening) I’m pretty sure I’m done. I did not see this level of neglect coming.



This is actually the third season of Vail owning Peak properties.  

2019-20 - transition year with early shutdown.  I upgraded my Peak pass to Epic local that year so I could ski Stowe 
2020-2021 - Covid all year
2021-2022 -  Still Covid, but they should have things fully figured out by now

My plan was to take this year off from Vail.  If I saw a return to Peak level of effort and competence, I'd go back for next year.   Wildcat is my favorite NH ski area and Stowe my favorite in VT.  CM and Sunapee decent local options for quick hits.   It's the perfect pass for the coastal NH resident.  Much better than Ikon or Indy.  

No chance in hell I go back with what I'm seeing now.  I'd still love to someday, but Vail has a LONG way to go to earn my spend back.


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## snoseek (Dec 20, 2021)

On a separate note cannon is skiing real nice today. If I worked marketing here I would give every single epic pass holder a half price ticket from open to right before Xmas so they could see what a well functioning mtn ops plan looks like.

Edit I'm going back to the state of nh doing the whole hostile takeover at wildcat fantasy. It would be some karma for the whole park city fiasco


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## MadKitty (Dec 20, 2021)

It would be nice if a NH politician started making some noise at Vail. One of the big knocks against them has been over crowding at their areas. Wildcat/Attitash have been DEAD so far this season. I'm sure this is hurting local businesses in the valley.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2021)

MadKitty said:


> It would be nice if a NH politician started making some noise at Vail. One of the big knocks against them has been over crowding at their areas. Wildcat/Attitash have been DEAD so far this season. I'm sure this is hurting local businesses in the valley.


I doubt that libertarian NH is going to do anything.  Add to it that the Governor MIGHT have a conflict of interest when it comes to the ski industry and I doubt that they will do anything.


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## MadKitty (Dec 20, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> I doubt that libertarian NH is going to do anything.  Add to it that the Governor MIGHT have a conflict of interest when it comes to the ski industry and I doubt that they will do anything.


LOL don't forget how weird NH is politically. The national politicians are all democrats and Sununu/Ayotte are afraid to run against them. Even it was just one of the Conway selectmen it would be amusing.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2021)

MadKitty said:


> LOL don't forget how weird NH is politically. The national politicians are all democrats and Sununu/Ayotte are afraid to run against them. Even it was just one of the Conway selectmen it would be amusing.


Well, 2022 is an election year.  And this is a huge impact on NH's economy.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 20, 2021)

I wouldn't expect state intervention without a broader antitrust action or an actual closure announcement.


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## machski (Dec 20, 2021)

Unless Vail completely flops on Sunapee, state will do nothing.  If Vail makes a mess of Sunapee and doesn't service that well, that may spark the Ire of NH politicians.  Sunapee is after still a State Park Vail leases from the state.


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## Mainer (Dec 20, 2021)

Anybody hear that wildcats few snow makers all walked off the job today


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## eatskisleep (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> Anybody hear that wildcats few snow makers all walked off the job today


Big if true...


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> Anybody hear that wildcats few snow makers all walked off the job today


Really?

Looks like PCMR ski patrollers may be going on strike soon....


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## ThatGuy (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> Anybody hear that wildcats few snow makers all walked off the job today


Didn’t even know they had any of their own snowmakers this year lol


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## ss20 (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> Anybody hear that wildcats few snow makers all walked off the job today



What?  You mean the both of them called out sick? lolol


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## Edd (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> Anybody hear that wildcats few snow makers all walked off the job today


Did you?


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## Mainer (Dec 20, 2021)

I did. All three of them. Hopefully just a rumor and hopefully there is more then 3


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## eatskisleep (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> I did. All three of them. Hopefully just a rumor and hopefully there is more then 3


Plot thickens... are they the same 3 as at Attitash? Or separate crews this season?


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## drjeff (Dec 20, 2021)

machski said:


> Unless Vail completely flops on Sunapee, state will do nothing.  If Vail makes a mess of Sunapee and doesn't service that well, that may spark the Ire of NH politicians.  Sunapee is after still a State Park Vail leases from the state.


As long as the Sununu family is running Waterville Valley and is in the Governors Office in Concord, on some level I would think that if other resorts in NH aren't firing on all cylinders, that they won't mind. Especially with that new bubble 6 going in at WV for next season and the expansion potentially being talked about down to the village


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## deadheadskier (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> I did. All three of them. Hopefully just a rumor and hopefully there is more then 3



Were the guns running today?  That's probably the answer to the the rumor.


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## Cobbold (Dec 20, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Were the guns running today?  That's probably the answer to the the rumor.


I see guns running right now, on the mtn cam, when a snow cat with lights on went by a gun, somebody is making snow


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## Mainer (Dec 20, 2021)

Or they have no one to shut off the guns. The post the other day saying that patrol and ski school were helping with snowmaking didn’t sound good though. Wildcat used to get a lot of employees from the Gorham/Berlin area, what happened?


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## thebigo (Dec 20, 2021)

drjeff said:


> As long as the Sununu family is running Waterville Valley and is in the Governors Office in Concord, on some level I would think that if other resorts in NH aren't firing on all cylinders, that they won't mind. Especially with that new bubble 6 going in at WV for next season and the expansion potentially being talked about down to the village


Fortunately NH is not CT.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 20, 2021)

Mainer said:


> Or they have no one to shut off the guns. The post the other day saying that patrol and ski school were helping with snowmaking didn’t sound good though. Wildcat used to get a lot of employees from the Gorham/Berlin area, what happened?


Vail.  That is what happened.


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## machski (Dec 21, 2021)

drjeff said:


> As long as the Sununu family is running Waterville Valley and is in the Governors Office in Concord, on some level I would think that if other resorts in NH aren't firing on all cylinders, that they won't mind. Especially with that new bubble 6 going in at WV for next season and the expansion potentially being talked about down to the village


Here we are again.  They do own Waterville, but are not actively running the resort currently.  White Peaks was definitely long due for replacement (it is a very early Poma HSQ and not really supported any longer) and being that they went with MND for that company's first NA Detach install, I bet they got a huge discount.  Plus, they need to try and keep up with Boyne at Loon.  Kanc 8 is likely only the tip of the iceberg on upgraded bubble chairs there.


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## chuckstah (Dec 23, 2021)

From Instagram:


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## Hockeyski1998 (Dec 23, 2021)

Really hope that’s not the case… I’m thinking of deferring my pass for this year at this rate. Also have the ikon which I can hit SR, Loon. Cannon is a possibility as well


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## snoseek (Dec 23, 2021)

Hockeyski1998 said:


> Really hope that’s not the case… I’m thinking of deferring my pass for this year at this rate. Also have the ikon which I can hit SR, Loon. Cannon is a possibility as well


Can you still defer for any reason? If so yeah you probably should.

Also are they seriously not making snow today in this cold? Man things are really broken...I hope it snows in January so I can get up there.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 23, 2021)

No mention of snowmaking on the website or social media that I saw.   Maybe Christmas Eve Eve is a holiday for them. Lol


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## Hockeyski1998 (Dec 23, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Can you still defer for any reason? If so yeah you probably should.
> 
> Also are they seriously not making snow today in this cold? Man things are really broken...I hope it snows in January so I can get up there.


I believe you are able to move it to a pass for next season if you do not use your pass at all this season. Don’t quote me on it, I definitely will have to check into it. However, it’s such a terrible situation. I have a place not far from both Attitash and wildcat… it brings back my memories of skiing there as a kid. I will have to see how things pan out in the next month as I will not be heading to the North Conway area till the end of January


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## Quietman (Dec 23, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Can you still defer for any reason? If so yeah you probably should.


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## chuckstah (Dec 23, 2021)

I think they made a refund or rollover almost bulletproof this year. Medical issues or closures, not much else, without  looking to verify.


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## eatskisleep (Dec 23, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> No mention of snowmaking on the website or social media that I saw.   Maybe Christmas Eve Eve is a holiday for them. Lol


I’d guess the rumors are true about the snow makers leaving the job then.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 23, 2021)

Considering how bad everything was in New Hampshire at the Vail resorts last season, are any of you at all surprised at how it’s going so far?


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## snoseek (Dec 23, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Considering how bad everything was in New Hampshire at the Vail resorts last season, are any of you at all surprised at how it’s going so far?


I shouldn't be but yes I am. I figured Covid and all last year was alot for Vail to handle with all the new resorts...growing pains. I sorta figured they would run things shitty but maybe would have learned from last years mistakes. I'm starting to see this is how its actually going to be and its not a mistake its all by design. 

As a company they will never last back east operating like this. The masses will show next week and you'll be hearing alot of complaining. It won't just be the core locals bitching anymore.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 23, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Considering how bad everything was in New Hampshire at the Vail resorts last season, are any of you at all surprised at how it’s going so far?



Not at all surprised.  ALL of the local competition performed better than Frob the fraud last year and really didn't make excuses about Covid.  They showed they wanted to kick ass for their customers and come back great from the abruptly ended 19-20 season.  Bring normalcy and joy back as much as they could.

Not Vail. They made excuse after excuse about staffing and everything else they could last season.  

The fact that they're performing even worse two years in is what's really surprising to me.  I thought after last year's garbage they'd improve at least a little   And last year really got bailed out in a serious way for Vail with good weather in January and February.  

I didn't buy an Epic Pass this season.  I did so kinda hoping I'd eat crow.  The last time I didn't have a pass at Wildcat was after a disastrous season operationally that had already followed a poor season prior with promises to fix things which Peak didn't.  Peak didn't hide and apologized all season for fucking up and promised to fix it for real.  I needed to see it to believe it and didn't buy a pass. Peak did an even bigger upgrade than promised and started gunning for a Nov 1st to May 1st every season after.  I ate crow big time

No crow this time around

I was never so excited about my skiing possibilities when Vail bought Peak.  The mountain locations and my personal history with those mountains in NH combined with VT is perfect for me.

I grew up skiing Okemo as my home hill from 83 to 94 when I graduated HS.

Stowe became home as a college student mixed with a ski bum degenerate through my mid 20s. 

Wildcat has been my most skied place since 2007 by far.  I love Crotched for what it offers as a quick hit.

Perfect!!!

Nope. Vail is a god damned disaster


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## snoseek (Dec 23, 2021)

I've on and off skied Wildcat since I was a little kid. The Bobcat chair was a tbar the first time I went to give you an idea. There's been some rough patches and the snowmaking and grooming has always lacked, that the appeal but right here in 2021 I've not seen them not be able to ski t2b going into xmas. Last year was Lynx till sometime in January. This is the new normal I guess and until Vail is gone things are grim.

The local businesses must be fucking livid.


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## Mainer (Dec 24, 2021)

I don’t think vail has hurt business for the locals. The MWV valley is as busy as ever. The epic pass brings a lot of mediocre skiers that need to buy gear. When I was at attitash they weren’t doing rentals so people were going to Andes to rent. The local skiers are pissed though. Vail not joining the chamber, canning the rec ski league. Putting out a terrible effort compared to other resorts in the area. I’d even wager that they stopped doing shop passes for Ski shops. 
   But the valley is in tough shape right now.  Went to go to dunkins in glen closed. Went to get gas at Irving at 4 in conway closed out of gas. Went to eat on Wednesday delaneys, moat, chef bistro all closed for lunch that day. Between covid and no staff it’s a shit show in North Conway.


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2021)

Mainer said:


> I don’t think vail has hurt business for the locals. The MWV valley is as busy as ever.


Agreed, if vail was sabotaging an isolated mountain the story would be different. Attitash and wildcat are an extremely small percentage of the overall tourist draw for the MWV, further there are several ready alternatives.


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## Edd (Dec 24, 2021)

Possible silver lining is this could be good for Black Mountain. I’ve gotta believe Cannon, BW, Cranmore, and Boyne (especially after buying Shawnee) will sell more passes than usual next year.


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2021)

Edd said:


> Possible silver lining is this could be good for Black Mountain. I’ve gotta believe Cannon, BW, Cranmore, and Boyne (especially after buying Shawnee) will sell more passes than usual next year.


The numbers on the WMSP would be interesting.

Boyne needs to add an option in the southern half of NH to truly take market share from fail. I just don't know what options they have. Gunstock, pats and ragged are the obvious choices but none would appear to be available anytime soon.

Wonder if Boyne could do for whaleback what Peaks did for crotched?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 24, 2021)

I bet Ragged could be had for the right price


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2021)

God I hope not.

They've been approached quite a bit already and weren't interested.


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2021)

thebigo said:


> The numbers on the WMSP would be interesting.
> 
> Boyne needs to add an option in the southern half of NH to truly take market share from fail. I just don't know what options they have. Gunstock, pats and ragged are the obvious choices but none would appear to be available anytime soon.
> 
> Wonder if Boyne could do for whaleback what Peaks did for crotched?



The only thing that is going to allow Whaleback to survive long term is a massive cash infusion to modernize and become more efficient. The buildings are falling down, the lifts are junk, the snowmaking is undersized by at least half and the lights are out of code and kept operating with duct tape (yeah literally). UVSSF (the non-profit that owns and operates it) has raised a good amount to fund operating loses and some capital improvements but nowhere near enough to be where it needs to be. Until thats done the product will be sub par, they'll continue losing customers who aren't captive, and they'll go year to year just surviving. I think it's going to take being run for profit unfortunately again to turn it around. I'm not sure who would be interested though the last time the place went bankrupt UVSSF bought it from the bank at auction with no other interest for far less than asking.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 24, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> God I hope not.
> 
> They've been approached quite a bit already and weren't interested.



I figured with your camp location, a Boyne run Ragged might have appeal.  Ragged local for you, Sunday River access from your camp. 

What would concern you with Boyne buying Ragged?


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## thebigo (Dec 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I bet Ragged could be had for the right price


Pacific / ragged appear to have a good thing going. They recently acquired wintergreen and wisp after serving as an operator for a number of years. I would assume them more likely to add properties, not subtract. 

After a few weeks skiing ragged several times a week, the last thing I would root for is a change in ownership. Honestly, not even sure I would like to see the expansion. If they have money to invest, I would put it towards snowmaking. The snowmaking has been excellent but you can never have enough. Being able to blow showboat and yankee top to bottom would be impressive.


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## Newpylong (Dec 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I figured with your camp location, a Boyne run Ragged might have appeal.  Ragged local for you, Sunday River access from your camp.
> 
> What would concern you with Boyne buying Ragged?



They put out a top notch product year after year. They are well staffed (and every department knows what they are doing), and the value can't be beat. They aren't sharing resources with other regional hills and their corporate overlords give them about as free of a hand as possible.

While enticing I wouldn't want to jeopardize that just to be able to ski in Maine a couple times a year on the same pass.


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## IceEidolon (Dec 24, 2021)

I don't think Whaleback has enough land to be interesting to any of the big chains. To be viable as a for-profit you need two fixed grip lifts (one to the top, one replacing the mid mountain T-bar), a new lodge, a steady commitment of ~2000' of new pipe per year for a decade, at least one more electric compressor, totally new pumps and permits to run at 1000-2000 GPM, (currently less than 500 gpm) and 20 HKD SV14 towers a year and two fans. Ideally someone with the pockets to automate, too. And electrical work for the lights and fan gun power. If they had a core of a beginner trail off the midstation and an intermediate and an expert trail off the summit as reliable Christmas trails, they'd be an excellent value option/local choice. Unfortunately that takes the kind of big money that doesn't appreciate a 15+ year repayment period nor no base area development.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 24, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> They put out a top notch product year after year. They are well staffed (and every department knows what they are doing), and the value can't be beat. They aren't sharing resources with other regional hills and their corporate overlords give them about as free of a hand as possible.
> 
> While enticing I wouldn't want to jeopardize that just to be able to ski in Maine a couple times a year on the same pass.



Right on.  Makes total sense.  You got a good deal going on at Ragged for your family and are happy with the product.  Don't rock the boat, even with a "good" big ski management company.  Bigger isn't always better


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Right on.  Makes total sense.  You got a good deal going on at Ragged for your family and are happy with the product.  Don't rock the boat, even with a "good" big ski management company.  Bigger isn't always better



Pretty much. I can be pretty critical when it comes to operations but I continually comment (and my wife agrees which is also odd heh) just how well run the place is. Perfect? No, no one is but just a real good thing going and I don't think there are many who want it to change. They do keep going up consistantly on the passes and eventually "Mission Affordable" will be leas affordable and the value may change... but for now how can you beat what they offer for $349 if you live anywhere close?


----------



## Edd (Dec 27, 2021)

Friends of mine sent me this from Wildcat today. Anyone know if this is the plan for the whole season? It’s the bar upstairs.


----------



## Hockeyski1998 (Dec 27, 2021)

Update: They are making snow on the upper part of the mountain. Posted video on Instagram


----------



## Hockeyski1998 (Dec 27, 2021)

Edd said:


> Friends of mine sent me this from Wildcat today. Anyone know if this is the plan for the whole season? It’s the bar upstairs.
> 
> View attachment 52479


I would assume so. Things don’t seem to be getting any better covid wise


----------



## MadKitty (Dec 27, 2021)

lol that beer list is pathetic for a ski bar in New England! Reinforces my decision to do all my wildcat drinking in lot c!


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2021)

MadKitty said:


> lol that beer list is pathetic for a ski bar in New England! Reinforces my decision to do all my wildcat drinking in lot c!



They've always had a pretty poor selection and some of that is due to space limitations.   But that is really bad.  Like most bars had a better selection 25 years ago bad.


----------



## MadKitty (Dec 27, 2021)

Last year Linda (former longtime wildcat bartender) said she had to appeal to Broomfield to order anything other than Budweiser products.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 27, 2021)

MadKitty said:


> Last year Linda (former longtime wildcat bartender) said she had to appeal to Broomfield to order anything other than Budweiser products.



Linda is no longer there?

She was the best.  

Even prior to Vail, they always had a pretty weak craft beer offering.


----------



## snoseek (Dec 27, 2021)

Man she goes back a lo g long way. Like decades and was fluent in bartending.


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 27, 2021)

One thing Vail is good at is driving away loyal employees and destroying mountains local culture


----------



## johnl87 (Dec 28, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> One thing Vail is good at is driving away loyal employees and destroying mountains local culture


good for the local competition!


----------



## MadKitty (Dec 28, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Linda is no longer there?
> 
> She was the best.
> 
> Even prior to Vail, they always had a pretty weak craft beer offering.


Yep, Leo the liftie is still there though.


----------



## IceEidolon (Dec 29, 2021)

johnl87 said:


> good for the local competition!


If they don't own all the resorts in your region, as with the Snowtime and Seven Springs area clusters. Then, the long timers can't go work for a competitor easily.


----------



## eatskisleep (Dec 29, 2021)

Old Video from 2014 but brought back some good memories!!


----------



## chuckstah (Jan 1, 2022)

It's a New Year's miracle. The quad is listed as open along with Upper  Polecat.  Still not worth the gas money, but it's better than the Tomcat. I'll believe it when I see it running.


----------



## Edd (Jan 1, 2022)

I can finally see 2022 for purchasing lift tickets and it gives the impression that they’re open 7 days a week, so that’s something. I’m almost surprised.


----------



## Mainer (Jan 1, 2022)

That didn’t last long. Back to tomcat triple


----------



## johnl87 (Jan 4, 2022)

best snowmaking window in weeks.  how's wildcat doing?


----------



## snoseek (Jan 4, 2022)

johnl87 said:


> best snowmaking window in weeks.  how's wildcat doing?


Looking at the Webcam I don't see anything happening on lynx and that would be the next logical expansion so maybe they're in recovery mode. 


Meanwhile at the competition


----------



## 2Planker (Jan 4, 2022)

johnl87 said:


> best snowmaking window in weeks.  how's wildcat doing?


Attitash IS making snow today....
 So WC is Off Line 

No one has seen both places make snow at the same time.  So until proven wrong we're gonna go with that.
 I heard BOTH places are still trying to get more snowmakers......

Cannon was good yesterday, BW tmrw


----------



## Wolfman (Jan 4, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Attitash IS making snow today....
> So WC is Off Line
> 
> No one has seen both places make snow at the same time.  So until proven wrong we're gonna go with that.
> ...


That's not true. Snowmaking on the bobcat today and polecat yesterday.

They are still hiring though.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Jan 4, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Attitash IS making snow today....
> So WC is Off Line
> 
> No one has seen both places make snow at the same time.  So until proven wrong we're gonna go with that.
> ...



cannon really seems to be hammering the hill with snow. really setting the bar for new hampshire this year. yay socialism?!? the overt capitalist resorts seem to be fucking awful right now.


----------



## skimagic (Jan 4, 2022)

given all the bitchn lately I'm surprised no one is complaining about Cannon wasting of taxpayer money on  snowmaking , hiring all the workers and driving the capitalist resorts out of business.


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 4, 2022)

skimagic said:


> given all the bitchn lately I'm surprised no one is complaining about Cannon wasting of taxpayer money on  snowmaking , hiring all the workers and driving the capitalist resorts out of business.


You did it for us


----------



## Edd (Jan 4, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Attitash IS making snow today....
> So WC is Off Line
> 
> No one has seen both places make snow at the same time.  So until proven wrong we're gonna go with that.
> ...


BW was good today. I’m gonna make a last minute call tomorrow on BW or Cannon.


----------



## snoseek (Jan 4, 2022)

Edd said:


> BW was good today. I’m gonna make a last minute call tomorrow on BW or Cannon.


The entire front is being blasted hard with beautiful chalk and the stuff after zoomer lookers right will likely open tomorrow. I will be back Thursday and maybe Friday

The rest of the mountain was typical cannon hardpack but wasn't real fast to ski off.


----------



## shpride (Jan 5, 2022)

Agreed.  I saw snowmaking going on at both Attitash and Wildcat yesterday.  It doesn’t look like a cloud of snow like Cannon but it is going on.  Also the summit at Wildcat is finally open.


----------



## Edd (Jan 6, 2022)

The Conway Daily Sun:









						Tough early sledding for Vail at Attitash, Wildcat
					

BARTLETT — According to complaints seen on social media and heard in calls to the press, it’s been a rough start to the season for Vail Resorts, Inc., the Colorado-based




					www.conwaydailysun.com


----------



## kendo (Jan 6, 2022)

and related Q&A article...









						Vail managers: 'We share in the frustration'
					

BROOMFIELD, Colo. — The Sun on Jan. 3 sent a set of questions to Vail Resorts' Adam White, senior manager of resort communications, Northeast Region, and received the following responses




					www.conwaydailysun.com


----------



## Edd (Jan 6, 2022)

kendo said:


> and related Q&A article...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They’re taking no responsibility at all for the poor performance in the MWV.


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 6, 2022)

kendo said:


> and related Q&A article...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Questions weren’t specific enough. Like why not ask why are you only paying snowmakers $x an hour while others in the area are paying $x? 
Not able to ask follow ups was an issue as well


----------



## So Inclined (Jan 6, 2022)

"We continue to correct maintenance items _*proactively as they come up"

*_


----------



## pinion247 (Jan 6, 2022)

So Inclined said:


> "We continue to correct maintenance items _*proactively as they come up"
> 
> *_



Ha. This is MBA level grammar right here.


----------



## slatham (Jan 6, 2022)

So Inclined said:


> "We continue to correct maintenance items _*proactively as they come up"
> 
> *_



I could buy the "we inherited old infrastructure" and are dealing with issues "as they come up" *IF* this was year #1 of ownership. But they bought Peak Resorts 2 1/2 years ago, so this is the third winter of operation. And this is VAIL, with decades of resort Management and $1.5 bill of CASH. I don't think anyone would expect at this point old lifts to be replaced and wholesale overhauls of snowmaking systems, but it is more than reasonable to expect current systems to be checked, tested, maintained and WORKING. Peak ran with these same systems - did this happen under their watch? Don't think so, but I not a MWV local.


----------



## Edd (Jan 6, 2022)

slatham said:


> I could buy the "we inherited old infrastructure" and are dealing with issues "as they come up" *IF* this was year #1 of ownership. But they bought Peak Resorts 2 1/2 years ago, so this is the third winter of operation. And this is VAIL, with decades of resort Management and $1.5 bill of CASH. I don't think anyone would expect at this point old lifts to be replaced and wholesale overhauls of snowmaking systems, but it is more than reasonable to expect current systems to be checked, tested, maintained and WORKING. Peak ran with these same systems - did this happen under their watch? Don't think so, but I not a MWV local.


Peak had problems with snowmaking for sure, but Vail could crush these issues if they chose to spend the $. They’re choosing not to.


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 6, 2022)

slatham said:


> I could buy the "we inherited old infrastructure" and are dealing with issues "as they come up" *IF* this was year #1 of ownership. But they bought Peak Resorts 2 1/2 years ago, so this is the third winter of operation. And this is VAIL, with decades of resort Management and $1.5 bill of CASH. I don't think anyone would expect at this point old lifts to be replaced and wholesale overhauls of snowmaking systems, but it is more than reasonable to expect current systems to be checked, tested, maintained and WORKING. Peak ran with these same systems - did this happen under their watch? Don't think so, but I not a MWV local.



Other than the triple at Attitash, no glaring issues at Peak in NH. There were snowmaking issues at Wildcat they inherited and they did a great job with the upgrades.  Most importantly they used the system better than Vail.


----------



## abc (Jan 6, 2022)

slatham said:


> So Inclined said:
> 
> 
> > "We continue to correct maintenance items _*proactively as they come up"
> ...



The point being, to act "_while they come up_" is *re*action, not *pro*active!

Reading between the line of the "MBA level grammar" as @SL point it, aka corporate double talk, it's Vail saying "This is the best we'll do. Be grateful that we're doing anything at all. It could be worse..."


----------



## Keelhauled (Jan 6, 2022)

Seems to me like the difference in saying "this snowcat is due for an oil change in five hours" and "eh, well, the engine isn't going to spin a bearing if we do it next week."  But that's not much to brag about, really.  Look at us, we're meeting literally the most basic standards.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 6, 2022)

Those responses are a bunch of BS, sorry.

Antiquated infrastructure? At the Cat they inherited those booster pumps from Peaks which were nearly brand NEW. A break in the pipe? I know the welder who deals with most of their blows outs, and he drops what he's doing to help ski areas out. There are no supply chain issues for welding a damn pipe.

Being up on snowmaking hours over last year at Attitash is nothing to market, the snowmaking has been abysmal since Vail bought the mountain and anyone who knew how to work that system left.

This company should be taken to task to answer for their incompetence. Of course, it's too easy to blame covid or staffing issues. The independent hills must be operating under a different environment then...


----------



## 2Planker (Jan 8, 2022)

Snocat chair falls from the lift.








						Chair Detaches from Wildcat Lift
					

Photo credit: Mic Murphy A triple chair fell near the base of Wildcat Mountain’s Snowcat lift this afternoon, sending one person to the hospital. The lift involved is a 1974 Riblet servicing …




					liftblog.com


----------



## ss20 (Jan 8, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Snocat chair falls from the lift.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's really a known issue...as the article mentions, several older Riblets with the grip-within-a-haul rope have failed recently.  Kinda like a lot of lift failures in the past 15 years have been Borvig-related.

To blame Vail or not to blame Vail...that is the question.  Vail is the one who's responsible at the end of the day.  But...given Vail has only had two off-seasons at Wildcat I highly doubt that lift has been given a comprehensive inspection and/or rebuild as one would expect to occur every decade on a fixed grip chair.  

Probably would've happened to whoever was operating the mountain...Vail, Peaks, an independent, etc.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 8, 2022)

The rib chairs gotta go industry wide.


----------



## MadPadraic (Jan 10, 2022)

slatham said:


> I could buy the "we inherited old infrastructure" and are dealing with issues "as they come up" *IF* this was year #1 of ownership. But they bought Peak Resorts 2 1/2 years ago, so this is the third winter of operation. And this is VAIL, with decades of resort Management and $1.5 bill of CASH.



Vail also built the Kensho Chair on peak 6.  The chair primarily services blue terrain and is supposed to be a gateway drug for bowl skiing. The chair doesn't dump skiers and riders onto a plateau (though there is one there if they had built it further), but instead dumps them onto a precipice with falls off on two sides.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 10, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> The rib chairs gotta go industry wide.


Snowjournal folks will consider this statement complete blasphemy!


----------



## xlr8r (Jan 11, 2022)

In recent years I have become hesitant to ride Riblet and especially Borvig lifts.  These 2 manufacturers seem to have had the most incidents lately.


----------



## snoseek (Jan 11, 2022)

I'm actually surprised they even are opening at all today. No summit lift so it's tomcat sufferfest. I can't imagine...


----------



## 2Planker (Jan 11, 2022)

Basically just 1 lift at both At/WC: Yankee & Tomcat


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 11, 2022)

xlr8r said:


> In recent years I have become hesitant to ride Riblet and especially Borvig lifts.  These 2 manufacturers seem to have had the most incidents lately.


The issue with the Borvigs was the bullwheel and braking systems.  Most of those have been upgraded/retrofitted.


----------



## xlr8r (Jan 11, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> The issue with the Borvigs was the bullwheel and braking systems.  Most of those have been upgraded/retrofitted.



They also have the hanging Sheaves, which caused the Spillway incident at Sugarloaf.  And Spruce at Sunday RIver had its whole top Terminal fall over due to poor anchoring.


----------



## machski (Jan 11, 2022)

xlr8r said:


> They also have the hanging Sheaves, which caused the Spillway incident at Sugarloaf.  And Spruce at Sunday RIver had its whole top Terminal fall over due to poor anchoring.


Spruce topple wasn't necessarily a fault with Borvig, it was the anchor techique used to mount the foundation to the bedrock.  My understanding was that anchor technque was banned in VT tramway construction even then but still allowed in ME and NH.  The technique was potentially used on several other tower footings impacting Poma and Yan installs at SR and those can now be identified with added top braces with new cable anchors into the bedrock bolted into the concrete tower footings.  SR had Dopp rebuild the top return terminal of Locke due to similar construction and age and I believe Highland mountain bike park also had substantial rebuilds to their Triple as well.  I'm unaware of any others that have done so however in either state.


----------



## Newpylong (Jan 11, 2022)

In NH at least, after the Spruce incident, we had to provide documentation to the Tramway Board as to what method any towers were pinned to ledge if any. Specifically, what type of grout was used. There was a list of "bad" grout that apparently very soluble in water (what happened on Spruce). Luckily, we found someone at Poma who figured out that we were in the clear. Had we not been able to find that, we either had to proactively re-pin the towers, or do a pull-test. Neither scenario is any good.


----------



## machski (Jan 11, 2022)

Newpylong said:


> In NH at least, after the Spruce incident, we had to provide documentation to the Tramway Board as to what method any towers were pinned to ledge if any. Specifically, what type of grout was used. There was a list of "bad" grout that apparently very soluble in water (what happened on Spruce). Luckily, we found someone at Poma who figured out that we were in the clear. Had we not been able to find that, we either had to proactively re-pin the towers, or do a pull-test. Neither scenario is any good.


Fun.  I do not know if ME tram board went that in depth, but I think SR thanked their lucky stars that topple happened overnight in the summer with no one in the path.  Heard any foundation they couldn't confirm 100% in the clear, they re-pinned with the foundation cross braces (towers at least) or something with tension like the summit return, completely rebuilt foundation and up (Locke).


----------



## tumbler (Jan 11, 2022)

All this Riblet talk is making me hungry...


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 11, 2022)

tumbler said:


> All this Riblet talk is making me hungry...


McRiblet


----------



## pinion247 (Jan 14, 2022)

Snowcat running today per the website.


----------



## gittist (Jan 14, 2022)

pinion247 said:


> Snowcat running today per the website.


Any parts falling off yet?


----------



## eatskisleep (Jan 16, 2022)

Great selection of trails for MLK weekend!!


----------



## pinion247 (Jan 16, 2022)

Storm will be a big win for those of us relying on WC as primary resort.

Bobcat skiing hard and fast today so at least I got 4x runs on it essentially alone every time before the crowds showed up at 9:30 - 10.

It’s sad here. But we all know what a good storm can do to Wildcat. Hopefully that doesn’t stop people from constructively criticizing Vail’s NH operational strategy.


----------



## Mainer (Jan 16, 2022)

It’s been cold all week, I don’t think they have blown snow in weeks. 2 top to bottom runs for mlk would be nice. Let’s hope this storm delivers and opens things up, because vails  not delivering


----------



## slatham (Jan 16, 2022)

Wow, that is lame. Especially with much better snowmaking weather now for a couple of weeks.


----------



## snoseek (Jan 16, 2022)

It will be interesting to see how things pan out if/when ullr is in control. Are they going to wait until things are up to a certain standard to open or leave it be and pull the rope. Clearly they don't have the staff to groom the place put like normal. I'm ok with a total natural experience at this point,  t2b lynx laps on natural ungroomed snow amongst other tails should make for good times. I hope they don't fucking blow it. 

Also it's gonna be a super short spring up there unless the snow gods go bonkers.


----------



## MadKitty (Jan 16, 2022)

snoseek said:


> It will be interesting to see how things pan out if/when ullr is in control. Are they going to wait until things are up to a certain standard to open or leave it be and pull the rope. Clearly they don't have the staff to groom the place put like normal. I'm ok with a total natural experience at this point,  t2b lynx laps on natural ungroomed snow amongst other tails should make for good times. I hope they don't fucking blow it.
> 
> Also it's gonna be a super short spring up there unless the snow gods go bonkers.


They're not enforcing rope ducking. Upper wc has been skiable (by wc standards lol) for a few weeks. They also have a hard close date of April 10.


----------



## eatskisleep (Jan 16, 2022)

MadKitty said:


> They're not enforcing rope ducking. Upper wc has been skiable (by wc standards lol) for a few weeks. They also have a hard close date of April 10.


That’s at least one good thing about Vail at WC, I heard at Stowe they don’t mess around with that though


----------



## MadKitty (Jan 16, 2022)

eatskisleep said:


> That’s at least one good thing about Vail at WC, I heard at Stowe they don’t mess around with that though


I've heard they're backed off on enforcement this year at stowe. They also have a lack of patrol/staff problem, though nothing like NH vail areas.


----------



## machski (Jan 16, 2022)

MadKitty said:


> I've heard they're backed off on enforcement this year at stowe. They also have a lack of patrol/staff problem, though nothing like NH vail areas.


Well, they are certainly nabbing their celebrity skiers.  Just ask Tim Kelly.


----------



## eatskisleep (Jan 17, 2022)

machski said:


> Well, they are certainly nabbing their celebrity skiers.  Just ask Tim Kelly.


What happened? 

Also how were lift lines at Atticat this weekend?


----------



## Smellytele (Jan 17, 2022)

eatskisleep said:


> What happened?
> 
> Also how were lift lines at Atticat this weekend?


He ducked a rope and got his pass pulled for 30 days.


----------



## cdskier (Jan 17, 2022)

eatskisleep said:


> What happened?
> 
> Also how were lift lines at Atticat this weekend?


Tim Kelley skied a closed trail at Stowe around New Years and was caught by patrol and they pulled his pass for a month...


----------



## pinion247 (Jan 26, 2022)

Snowmaking crews have finished up on Lynx... whales waiting to be pushed out for the weekend. Upper Catapult getting the snowmaking treatment now and likely groomed out by the weekend. Add some extra inches of fresh stuff over this coming weekend and Wildcat might end up in pretty good shape for February break. Fingers crossed.

MLK Weekend storm helped WC a bit and let them open up a bunch of terrain. Since my son does All Mountain Team in the morning I am usually skiing Singles line until he's out and on the ride up with others I get a bunch of different opinions, many from first-timers, etc coming to WC because of the Epic pass.

Most are great convos: "views here are amazing", "I love that they dropped ropes on so many trails and let us ski natural snow", "Wildcat character/vibe is great compared to my local hill".

Some are a bit more concerning: "I can't believe they opened up that trail with thin cover" [Thin Cover sign clearly displayed btw], "Why is there only one green off the top", "this lift should have a bubble", etc. 

Families that show up just to ski in a mob of other people on Polecat (Upper Polecat routinely skied off by 10:30a) must leave with a REALLY bad taste in their mouth.


----------



## thetrailboss (Jan 26, 2022)

cdskier said:


> Tim Kelley skied a closed trail at Stowe around New Years and was caught by patrol and they pulled his pass for a month...


That's Epic.


----------



## Hawk (Jan 26, 2022)

Speaking of Tim Kelley, what happened at NECN.  He was suddenly gone after being there like 26 years.  He was the only one that gave good ski country coverage.


----------



## drjeff (Jan 26, 2022)

Hawk said:


> Speaking of Tim Kelley, what happened at NECN.  He was suddenly gone after being there like 26 years.  He was the only one that gave good ski country coverage.


If I recall correctly, it seemed like his own personal political views that he expressed from time to time on his own social media feeds weren't always in agreement with those of the NECN/NBC/MSNBC mothership corporate views/narratives......


----------



## machski (Jan 27, 2022)

Storm is constantly shifting to a miss and I do not like what is showing up at the end of the 7 day.  If the miss pans out and the end of 7 day too, will test Vail's commitment to product.


----------



## ss20 (Jan 27, 2022)

machski said:


> Storm is constantly shifting to a miss and I do not like what is showing up at the end of the 7 day.  If the miss pans out and the end of 7 day too, will test Vail's commitment to product.



Eh.  By that time we'll be in early February.  Historically if we get a rain event at that point Sugarbush will not resurface.  Jay will not resurface.  Killington probably just a handful of trails.  Wildcat wouldn't resurface much under Peaks given that scenario.


----------



## snoseek (Jan 27, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Eh.  By that time we'll be in early February.  Historically if we get a rain event at that point Sugarbush will not resurface.  Jay will not resurface.  Killington probably just a handful of trails.  Wildcat wouldn't resurface much under Peaks given that scenario.


Lol you have to surface first in order to resurface. Snowmaking has been minimal as we all know. Current trail count would be torched real quick with a bit of rain. Most of the stuff is open on super thin cover.


----------



## gittist (Jan 27, 2022)

machski said:


> will test Vail's commitment to product.


I didn't realize they any commitment other than selling EPIC passes so people have an EPIC experience.


----------



## 2Planker (Jan 27, 2022)

Had breakfast @ The Shack w/ a couple of the imported snomakers from Heavenly who worked last night.
Their words were pretty harsh on the state of WC's system.  But I think we already knew that....

"We're gonna push it hard and hope that it doesn't blow again. All we really need is 2-3 more quality weeks"


----------



## eatskisleep (Jan 27, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Had breakfast @ The Shack w/ a couple of the imported snomakers from Heavenly who worked last night.
> Their words were pretty harsh on the state of WC's system.  But I think we already knew that....
> 
> "We're gonna push it hard and hope that it doesn't blow again. All we really need is 2-3 more quality weeks"


A for effort from the workers themselves. F for Vail for waiting too long.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Jan 27, 2022)

I thought the snowmaking system at WC was largely upgraded by Peaks?


----------



## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2022)

They replaced a bunch of pipe, added a new pumphouse and some guns around 2015.   Seemed to work just fine under Peak the last few years they owned it.  Maybe Vail hasn't properly maintained it the past few years.


----------



## pinion247 (Jan 27, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Had breakfast @ The Shack w/ a couple of the imported snomakers from Heavenly who worked last night.
> Their words were pretty harsh on the state of WC's system.  But I think we already knew that....
> 
> "We're gonna push it hard and hope that it doesn't blow again. All we really need is 2-3 more quality weeks"


Shack is open again? Great to hear.


----------



## 2Planker (Jan 27, 2022)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I thought the snowmaking system at WC was largely upgraded by Peaks?


"Largely" NO.     7 Years ago Peaks did a fix to get it running after it shit the bed the year before.
But this years  Upper Mt Blow Out  set it  back even further.
Duct Tape, Bailing Wire, & JB Weld can only go so far.

Stoked for 2 days comped at the Omni w/ 2 maybe 3 days @ BW


----------



## Edd (Jan 27, 2022)

2Planker said:


> "Largely" NO.     7 Years ago Peaks did a fix to get it running after it shit the bed the year before.
> But this years  Upper Mt Blow Out  set it  back even further.
> Duct Tape, Bailing Wire, & JB Weld can only go so far.
> 
> Stoked for 2 days comped at the Omni w/ 2 maybe 3 days @ BW


Nice on the Omni/BW stay. I’d like to hear Vail announce improvements to the snowmaking at Cat. Currently seems to be their largest problem but, to my knowledge, they haven’t publicly admitted that there IS an issue with the system.


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## abc (Jan 27, 2022)

2Planker said:


> All we really need is 2-3 more quality weeks"


This is the end of January, for god's sake! This isn't end of November!

No disrespect for the hard working snowmakers from the west. But the east rarely have quality "weeks". "Quality" snowmaking windows may last for a week, but don't often last for 2-3 weeks in a row! 

Speaking of "weeks", I believe the forecast for next week includes the dreaded R word. I'm afraid WC is toast.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2022)

2Planker said:


> "Largely" NO.     7 Years ago Peaks did a fix to get it running after it shit the bed the year before.
> But this years  Upper Mt Blow Out  set it  back even further.
> Duct Tape, Bailing Wire, & JB Weld can only go so far.
> 
> Stoked for 2 days comped at the Omni w/ 2 maybe 3 days @ BW



I'm not sure how you can say "Largely No".  They dumped $2M into it.  Replaced all the pipe on Polecat, Lynx, Catapult and Wild Kitten. Bought a ton of guns and completely overhauled the pumphouse.  

It was pretty significant and I felt the results showed the next few years.  

They still could stand even greater investment. Expanding the reservoir and increasing pumping capacity would go a long way


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## johnl87 (Jan 27, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm not sure how you can say "Largely No".  They dumped $2M into it.  Replaced all the pipe on Polecat, Lynx, Catapult and Wild Kitten. Bought a ton of guns and completely overhauled the pumphouse.
> 
> It was pretty significant and I felt the results showed the next few years.
> 
> They still could stand even greater investment. Expanding the reservoir and increasing pumping capacity would go a long way


a lot of that equipment was second hand from a lost ski area (ascutney).


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## deadheadskier (Jan 27, 2022)

johnl87 said:


> a lot of that equipment was second hand from a lost ski area (ascutney).



Didn't realize that.  All I remember is they ended up doing a lot more work than what they initially announced


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## thetrailboss (Jan 27, 2022)

So it took a little digging, but I managed to get a pick of that Vail relief crew hard at work on Wildcat’s snowmaking.








(That’s a New England Ski Museum Photo from Wildcat in the 1970’s)


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## thetrailboss (Jan 27, 2022)

2Planker said:


> Had breakfast @ The Shack w/ a couple of the imported snomakers from Heavenly who worked last night.
> Their words were pretty harsh on the state of WC's system.  But I think we already knew that....
> 
> "We're gonna push it hard and hope that it doesn't blow again. All we really need is 2-3 more quality weeks"


2-3 more quality "weeks"?


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## thetrailboss (Jan 27, 2022)

Edd said:


> Nice on the Omni/BW stay. I’d like to hear Vail announce improvements to the snowmaking at Cat. Currently seems to be their largest problem but, to my knowledge, they haven’t publicly admitted that there IS an issue with the system.


Vail's solution to this is for us all to do our snowdances more often.


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## eatskisleep (Jan 28, 2022)

thetrailboss said:


> Vail's solution to this is for us all to do our snowdances more often.


It does after all save them money and help The stock!!


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## MadKitty (Jan 28, 2022)

From what I've seen they're not taking care of the place. I've previously posted pictures of the gully that blew out at the top of alley cat this fall. That was a result of vailcat not maintaining the mtn's water bars. They never repaired the gully, but It's been easy to see/avoid so far. They also trimmed the trees along the tomcat liftline and left much of the forest debris on the trail where people ski. I'd bet many of the glades are a mess too. We'll find out when/if we get some real snow.


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## thetrailboss (Jan 28, 2022)

eatskisleep said:


> It does after all save them money and help The stock!!


We’re helping them out.  The stock is now down to $266.64!


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## IceEidolon (Jan 28, 2022)

Peaks kept limping the system along, but I challenge anyone to name a mountain in the Northeast that's in tip top shape everywhere. Peaks was big into expanding coverage and adding low E guns and fans at most of their locations, but that doesn't mean pipe that was already in the ground/on trails got replaced.


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## machski (Jan 28, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Peaks kept limping the system along, but I challenge anyone to name a mountain in the Northeast that's in tip top shape everywhere. Peaks was big into expanding coverage and adding low E guns and fans at most of their locations, but that doesn't mean pipe that was already in the ground/on trails got replaced.


They have a long way to go, but SR is fast into overhauling the ENTIRE snowmaking system.  White Cap just got completely overhauled this year and a new feedline up to the new valve house on Cascade and new WC feed down Jive/Heats On (now with dedicated guns).

If Fail does upgrade WC's system, bet they don't make much fanfare about it.  Probably will just fall under their general maintenance/upgrades.  They don't even publish where they are making snow, so they don't see it as big and fancy like new, big lifts.


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## snoseek (Jan 28, 2022)

Getting to that time of year when the fact that wildcat doesn't make shit for snow is a positive. The skiing is thin but chalky. Trails like cheetah and catapult are true packed powder and grass. If they get some snow this place is gonna be skiing fantastic. Just keep that fucking quad running


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## drjeff (Jan 28, 2022)

IceEidolon said:


> Peaks kept limping the system along, but I challenge anyone to name a mountain in the Northeast that's in tip top shape everywhere. Peaks was big into expanding coverage and adding low E guns and fans at most of their locations, but that doesn't mean pipe that was already in the ground/on trails got replaced.



Mount Snow has replaced a great deal of their pipe over the last few years, I beleive it's been something like 70k feet of pipe, plus a new main feeder line to the Summit pumphouse in conjunction with the West Lake Snowmaking project.  There's still many trails though that have old pipe on their sides, and there's also still plenty of replacement pipe stashed away for future replacement and/or expansion projects.

That's not as marketing department sexy as say a new lift, however in the big scheme of things, might be more significant to the day to day snow surface management needs of any mountain


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## drjeff (Jan 28, 2022)

machski said:


> They have a long way to go, but SR is fast into overhauling the ENTIRE snowmaking system.  White Cap just got completely overhauled this year and a new feedline up to the new valve house on Cascade and new WC feed down Jive/Heats On (now with dedicated guns).
> 
> If Fail does upgrade WC's system, bet they don't make much fanfare about it.  Probably will just fall under their general maintenance/upgrades.  They don't even publish where they are making snow, so they don't see it as big and fancy like new, big lifts.


If I recall correctly, what is, and likely will continue to be, a significant challenge for Wildcat's system, is a minimal supply of water, both from a storrage standpoint as well as a refilling capacity for their pond.   

The reality is that they could install a massive system at Wildcat, but if that massive system can drain their pond in a couple of days, and then need many days to refill enough to really take advantage of the systems capacity, is that really a smart use of capital expenditures?  Take what used to happen at Crotched as an example. That system can/could bury that mountain in 48hrs when running wide to capacity. Then they'd often have to shut it down for 3 or 4 days to get the pond refilled again. Another example is Sugarbush. While they have some storage capacity, their system when they're really running it, can drain their storage and it's refill rate in less than a week, and then they're either shutting down to let it refill or running it below capacity.

When you have a resort that has both enough of a water supply and refill capacity, as well as a system that has significant capacity and then ownership that wants to flex its snowmaking muscles on a regular basis, if that's your home hill, you sometimes can take it for granted what a good setup you have


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## snoseek (Jan 28, 2022)

drjeff said:


> If I recall correctly, what is, and likely will continue to be, a significant challenge for Wildcat's system, is a minimal supply of water, both from a storrage standpoint as well as a refilling capacity for their pond.
> 
> The reality is that they could install a massive system at Wildcat, but if that massive system can drain their pond in a couple of days, and then need many days to refill enough to really take advantage of the systems capacity, is that really a smart use of capital expenditures?  Take what used to happen at Crotched as an example. That system can/could bury that mountain in 48hrs when running wide to capacity. Then they'd often have to shut it down for 3 or 4 days to get the pond refilled again. Another example is Sugarbush. While they have some storage capacity, their system when they're really running it, can drain their storage and it's refill rate in less than a week, and then they're either shutting down to let it refill or running it below capacity.
> 
> When you have a resort that has both enough of a water supply and refill capacity, as well as a system that has significant capacity and then ownership that wants to flex its snowmaking muscles on a regular basis, if that's your home hill, you sometimes can take it for granted what a good setup you have


Just the commitment to go all in on making snow and keeping the current setup in good working order would satisfy most regulars. Also pay the staff top dollar so you get the best and are staffed up. That's it really. The place doesn't need shitloads of money.


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## Mainer (Jan 28, 2022)

3 groomed top to bottom runs by mlk, and the quad running opening day and nobody would be complaining.


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## Newpylong (Jan 28, 2022)

A lot of pipe and the upper mountain boosters were replaced. Still a lot to go, that system is old...


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## pinion247 (Jan 31, 2022)

Snowmaking is starting to make an impact. Upper Catapult is groomed out and skiing well, as is Middle and Lower Lynx. Bobcat pod is occasionally groomed as well.

This past storm helped *alot*. Wind hasn't helped the upper mountain at all, but there are sweet pockets of snow scattered around the bottom 2/3. Official total I think is 12" but with drifts it "feels" like more. And if the impending storm this week stays the course then Wildcat should be all set with coverage through most of Feb. Operational issues still exist (I would be skeptical that Upper Lynx gets opened - but if it does then sending a beer care package to snowmaking team), and not having Bobcat working at all means more complete wind holds. I would assume they'll work out the kinks on that lift and get it ready for the next time they can't spin Express/Tomcat.

Staff at the Cat remains A+. The extra snowmakers - though arguably too little too late - is making a positive difference. February should be a good stretch of skiing.


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## pinion247 (Jan 31, 2022)

I guess I will eat my previous words haha. And prep that care package for the team.


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## eatskisleep (Feb 2, 2022)

Can I use these in place of Epic Pass?








						vintage skiing lift ticket gondola NH ski area Wildcat lot of unused retired  | eBay
					

<p>vintage skiing lift ticket gondola NH ski area Wildcat lot of unused retired. </p><p>About 270 lift tickets that are still attached in original format . They were printed on heavy type paper and never issued . Original lift tickets from the early 60s or earlier . Still bright in color ...



					www.ebay.com


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## puckoach (Feb 4, 2022)

eatskisleep said:


> Can I use these in place of Epic Pass?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You might get just as LITTLE sking as an Epic at wildcat....

Actually remember those tickets.  Would love to get one, if somebody buys the lot!


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## pinion247 (Feb 6, 2022)

Anyone at the Cat today? I had to head home last night. Wondering if they managed to get Upper Polecat groomed out and if Middle Wildcat is still a field of downed skiers?

Yesterday was great powder - the claimed 22” seemed legit - and Middle/Lower Polecat of the Tomcat was very serene due to no access to it from the quad. Did that twice with my dad and kids and thought “maybe we’ll try Bobcat”, and Middle Wildcat was such a shitshow that that was it for my dad for the day. Felt bad, and pretty pissed that so many people got dumped off the quad and into that section of the mountain. But hey, at least the lifts are running? Lift lines were never insane either.

After the old man was done I burned through Wildcat, Lift Lion/Black Cat, and some trees before ending around 2p with a casual lap down Al’s to Catenary/Cougar which was almost untouched and there was nobody in that area. Might be my new non-tree go to when it’s crowded since plenty of folks finding solace on Lower Catapult, Alleycat, and Panther the past 2 weekends.


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## Edd (Feb 16, 2022)

About the bartenders at Wildcat, a friend ran into Heather; she’s working at the Parka. She said Kelly is working at a pot farm now , which sounds like a great fit. Apparently Sara is still there on weekends. She said the GM made the decision to close the bar so not sure if that’s a staffing issue. 

I remain baffled at Vail’s unwillingness to have Wildcat’s bar open along with Sunapee’s during the week.


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## Edd (Mar 1, 2022)

Today’s report says Tomcat and Bobcat open but not the Express. During NH vacation week?

Edit: They just tweeted that it’s open, which contradicts the website but ok.


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## pinion247 (Mar 1, 2022)

Edd said:


> Today’s report says Tomcat and Bobcat open but not the Express. During NH vacation week?
> 
> Edit: They just tweeted that it’s open, which contradicts the website but ok.


@WildcatMtnAlerts Twitter account is usually correct in their lift status, and they are timely in announcing wind holds  Still no snow report though...

They ran Bobcat all last week which was a plus IMO. Lower Catapult and Cheetah were skiing insanely well over this past weekend.


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## Edd (Mar 2, 2022)

So hit Wildcat for the first time this season.  Not super busy considering it was NH vacation week.  Conditions are firm, with plenty of ice patches and rocks to watch out for on groomers.  Wild Kitten is ungroomed with thin cover, interesting skiing.  Polecat was the closest to normal, but very firm.  Lynx kinda sketchy for the first half, gets better down low.  They need snow bad, and I suspect the guns are gone for the season.  Best snow I found was on Stray Cat.

The lodge: Shitty vibe, not sure music was even playing.  The upper floor was roped off, so no bar at all.  Everyone was bottlenecked on the first floor, forced to drink canned beer or Trulys.  Really unnecessary.  At a minimum, they could open the seating on the second floor so that people could spread out.  Would only cost them to clean the tables later.  Yesterday was too chilly for parking lot or else that's definitely what we would have done.

The conditions on the hill were uninspiring, but the lodge was flat out depressing.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 2, 2022)

I would be infuriated by the lodge situation.  To destroy what was always a great atmosphere is downright criminal.


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## snoseek (Mar 2, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I would be infuriated by the lodge situation.  To destroy what was always a great atmosphere is downright criminal.


It goes along nicely with my theme this winter of not giving them a dollar aside from the pass but it makes zero sense to have that upper level closed. Also god forbid someone wants to eat their packed lunch inside...I guess we don't do that anymore because covid. 

It's gonna be a short spring up at the cat


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## 2Planker (Mar 2, 2022)

The days  of skiing into May are long gone at the Cat.
 Their closing down plan is all laid out and many people are done in the next few weeks.

 No way they'll make it to  4/18 MA school Vac week


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## Mainer (Mar 2, 2022)

The vibe at atticat is not very inviting this year, last year was strangely more welcoming. They can probably make enough or close too ( maybe make a profit) to break even on weekdays if they make the bars a desirable place to hang out. It’s sucks so bad in the lodges this year, I make a point of not spending money in there. It’s a strange marketing strategy.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 2, 2022)

If Cat must run leaner midweek, I'd run F&B out of the pub only and close the cafeteria.  I bet that would do more revenue given the typical midweek clientele.  Adults, not families.  People who want to have a few beers and better than cafeteria food.


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## Katahdin (Mar 7, 2022)

Are things as ugly as the webcam and trail count would seem to indicate?  Looks like Polecat and Catapult to Bobcat is the only thing left after the most recent weather?


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## pinion247 (Mar 12, 2022)

Hey, at least it’s snowing now 

Polecat and Catapult/Bobcat are all that’s left. Decent coverage and they are skiing well enough all things considered.


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## oldfartrider (Mar 12, 2022)

I was at Sunday River yesterday, left early before noon.  Drove right by Wildcat and spent the afternoon at Attitash.  What was open there was actually in really nice shape with good coverage.  Had a fun afternoon.


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## jimk (Mar 15, 2022)

pinion247 said:


> View attachment 53593
> Hey, at least it’s snowing now
> 
> Polecat and Catapult/Bobcat are all that’s left. Decent coverage and they are skiing well enough all things considered.



Oh my!  I've been to Wildcat on three occasions over the years for a day or two each time; 1995, 2005, and most recently early March 2010, when it looked like this:





Loved Wildcat.  Always tell people it's one of my favorites (maybe THE favorite) in the east.  Hope it makes a good comeback in future years!


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## eatskisleep (Mar 23, 2022)

A whopping 13 trails open at the Cat!! Wow! What a great season there!


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## eatskisleep (Mar 28, 2022)

Hockeyski1998 said:


> Does anyone have the inside scoop on what may be going on at wildcat? Bought the epic pass this year simply to ski wildcat and so far it’s not looking like a good investment…


12 trails today…

Coverage was decent across the street Saturday. I was able to ski right to the lot.


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## snoseek (Mar 28, 2022)

eatskisleep said:


> 12 trails today…
> 
> Coverage was decent across the street Saturday. I was able to ski right to the lot.


I've been saying all along that it would be noticeable in the spring. I've skied I think 2 days at wildcat this year out of 40+ on my epic pass. Wildcat was a driving factor to buying the pass as well as crotched. I like vermont lots but I just don't want to make that drive to have good functional skiing.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 28, 2022)

Honestly, if they're just going to continue to treat their NH portfolio like after thoughts, they should offer a NH only Epic pass at a lower rate than the Epic Northeast value or local.  "Here you go folks.  Dirt cheap! Just pray for snow!"


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## nh2maboarder (Apr 6, 2022)

Anyone been to the cat recently? With the projected snow Thursday and Friday I’m thinking about heading up Saturday since I have still have a day left on my Epic 3 day pass (make that 2 days left, lol)


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## Wolfman (Apr 6, 2022)

Lynx, upper catapult, bobcat, and polecat are still skiable, it's actually been pretty good spring conditions, especially when the sun is out.


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## nh2maboarder (Apr 6, 2022)

Wolfman said:


> Lynx, upper catapult, bobcat, and polecat are still skiable, it's actually been pretty good spring conditions, especially when the sun is out.


Nice, thanks, debating whether it’s worth a 3 hour day trip but I think I might do it to get another day in since it’s already paid for


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## doublediamond (Apr 6, 2022)

FWIW Vail is instituting 3 tiers on their EpicDay “passes” for next season and NH/PA/Midwest are all the lowest tier. $44 for a 1-day non-holiday EpicDay “Pass” for this lowest tier.

Most of their resort portfolio (including all of VT and NY) are in the middle tier and the top tier adds their 5-or-so “flagships” and access to Telluride if you get 4+ days.

Methinks we will see more of this cut cut cut to NH areas.

The proof is in the pudding … If you look at the Epic Lift Upgrade the only meaningful upgrade in the east is Mansfield Triple to HS6.  Everything else is replacing duplicate or tandem lifts (other than OH).

* Attitash Double-Doubles —> FG4
* Mt. Snow Sundance/Tumbleweed —> HS6
* 8 of 9 lifts to be removed at JF/BB are double lifts (B&C, E&F, East 1&2, Merry Widow 1&2)
* Boston Mills: lift replaced is the oldest on mountain, a 1964 Hall double
* Brandywine: replace a 1977 triple


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## Mainer (Apr 6, 2022)

I see it pissing rain and 50, not sure about snow at the kitty. I’ll probably be there on Sunday to close it down. Those $44 tickets will make the weekends even more crowded. Probably another year of full lots, no snowmaking and broken or not running lifts. But I might buy a couple because I love the kitty.


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## nh2maboarder (Apr 6, 2022)

Mainer said:


> I see it pissing rain and 50, not sure about snow at the kitty. I’ll probably be there on Sunday to close it down. Those $44 tickets will make the weekends even more crowded. Probably another year of full lots, no snowmaking and broken or not running lifts. But I might buy a couple because I love the kitty.


I’m looking at Snow Forecast which shows it might be cold enough at elevation for snow https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Wildcat/6day/mid


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## drjeff (Apr 6, 2022)

doublediamond said:


> FWIW Vail is instituting 3 tiers on their EpicDay “passes” for next season and NH/PA/Midwest are all the lowest tier. $44 for a 1-day non-holiday EpicDay “Pass” for this lowest tier.
> 
> Most of their resort portfolio (including all of VT and NY) are in the middle tier and the top tier adds their 5-or-so “flagships” and access to Telluride if you get 4+ days.
> 
> ...


Mount Snow is getting a bit more love from Vail this Summer than you give them credit for. Not only the Tumbleweed and Sundance FGT being replaced with the new Sundance Express HSS, but the Sunbrook FGQ is getting replaced with a HSQ as well. Arguably that investment is more meaningful than the HSS at Stowe


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## ss20 (Apr 6, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Mount Snow is getting a bit more love from Vail this Summer than you give them credit for. Not only the Tumbleweed and Sundance FGT being replaced with the new Sundance Express HSS, but the Sunbrook FGQ is getting replaced with a HSQ as well. Arguably that investment is more meaningful than the HSS at Stowe



Yeah I didn't understand that post at all.  It's a very busy lift season for VR with capex improvements that have been sorely needed across their portfolio.


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## chuckstah (Apr 6, 2022)

nh2maboarder said:


> Nice, thanks, debating whether it’s worth a 3 hour day trip but I think I might do it to get another day in since it’s already paid for


How far is Stowe?  Probably worth a longer drive for much more terrain.


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## nh2maboarder (Apr 6, 2022)

chuckstah said:


> How far is Stowe?  Probably worth a longer drive for much more terrain.


Also 3, that was my second option because the forecast looks more like rain


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## drjeff (Apr 6, 2022)

ss20 said:


> Yeah I didn't understand that post at all.  It's a very busy lift season for VR with capex improvements that have been sorely needed across their portfolio.


Replacing both the Sundance and Sunbrook lifts at the same time certainly can add to the casual Mount Snow bystanders confusion (heck there's even confusion from time to time in the Mount Snow Seasons Passholders FB group about it! )

Heck, about the onlything thing that they could be doing this Summer to make it more confusion would be to replace/upgrade the Canyon Quad and rename it the Snowdance Express!


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## jaytrem (Apr 6, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Replacing both the Sundance and Sunbrook lifts at the same time certainly can add to the casual Mount Snow bystanders confusion (heck there's even confusion from time to time in the Mount Snow Seasons Passholders FB group about it! )
> 
> Heck, about the onlything thing that they could be doing this Summer to make it more confusion would be to replace/upgrade the Canyon Quad and rename it the Snowdance Express!


While there at it they should put in a HSQ at the North Face and name it Snowbrook.


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## ss20 (Apr 6, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Replacing both the Sundance and Sunbrook lifts at the same time certainly can add to the casual Mount Snow bystanders confusion (heck there's even confusion from time to time in the Mount Snow Seasons Passholders FB group about it! )
> 
> Heck, about the onlything thing that they could be doing this Summer to make it more confusion would be to replace/upgrade the Canyon Quad and rename it the Snowdance Express!



The ski resort industry has a fetish with the letter "s". 

Killington was the worst.... lifts starting with S- Skyeship I/II, Skye Peak, South Ridge, Sunrise, Superstar, Snowshed Quad/Double, Snowdon Triple/Six.


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## 2Planker (Apr 7, 2022)

Mainer said:


> I see it pissing rain and 50, not sure about snow at the kitty. I’ll probably be there on Sunday to close it down. Those $44 tickets will make the weekends even more crowded. Probably another year of full lots, no snowmaking and broken or not running lifts. But I might buy a couple because I love the kitty.


40 and raining all day so far.  Minimal cars in the lot when I drove by at at 1:45pm
 Supposed to be a washout tonight and Fri. 
The Cat may be done for the year. Especially since Vail probably can't wait to shut her down for 7 months


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## nh2maboarder (Apr 7, 2022)

2Planker said:


> 40 and raining all day so far.  Minimal cars in the lot when I drove by at at 1:45pm
> Supposed to be a washout tonight and Fri.
> The Cat may be done for the year. Especially since Vail probably can't wait to shut her down for 7 months


Damn, well, thanks for the update


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## Mainer (Apr 7, 2022)

Skied there today. Less then a dozen skiers. 2 trails open, about an inch of fresh between 11 and 1. Felt like December. Mixed precipitation when I left, wouldn’t travel 6 hrs rt for it. Has to be a better epic option. Skiing was surprisingly fun


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## Kingslug20 (Apr 7, 2022)

Stowe had a ton of terrain this week..more than anyone else..may snow at some point at the top..


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