# Road Wheels - for getting to the Goat Farm



## riverc0il (Jun 26, 2010)

I think I already know the answer to this one but I just need some fellow roadies to verify my concern and tell me to pony up the money and stop being such a cheap skate. :lol:  :roll:

My bike came with Shimano WH-R500 wheels in a 20/24 spoke configuration. I was so concerned with getting good drivetrain components when I bought the bike, I never thought to ensure the wheels were quality.

They got me through a few hundred base miles just fine (surely better than my 25 year old bike that I used to ride!). But earlier this month, the rear wheel just felt completely out of whack. Brought the bike in for a tune up, had the wheels trued, and things seemed good again. Then just a week or two after the trueing, the rear wheel just felt sloppy again. I have no experience with spokes, but comparing the front wheel to the rear wheel there is noticeable difference in tension, worse on the drivetrain side. So far, I have not broken a spoke but a quick search online suggests that this wheel starts to completely fall apart at 2k miles or so. I am about 1/3 the way there.

Down to 212 lbs (woo! down almost 15lbs so far this spring)... I am still damn heavy and the consensus online seems to be someone my weight needs to have at least 32 spokes in the rear for a traditional wheel. I am pusher and not a spinner and can really go after the pedals pretty hard which is often when the wheel feels its worst, sliding around under me. When I stand up and pedal hard while tilting the bike over, it feels really unstable in the rear. Could just be sloppy technique.  

So I need some justification for spending a few hundred bucks on a wheelset after having only recently purchased the bike. My biggest concern is stability and strength under my heavy frame and my lack of skill, mashing the pedals and all. The roads around here are mostly in really good condition and I almost never hit pot holes, mostly concerned about my own weight and how the rear wheel performs under weight. Recommendations?


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## mondeo (Jun 26, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I think I already know the answer to this one but I just need some fellow roadies to verify my concern and tell me to pony up the money and stop being such a cheap skate. :lol:  :roll:
> 
> My bike came with Shimano WH-R500 wheels in a 20/24 spoke configuration. I was so concerned with getting good drivetrain components when I bought the bike, I never thought to ensure the wheels were quality.
> 
> ...


Same wheels, same weight, haven't had any problems, about 2000 miles at this point.


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## MR. evil (Jun 26, 2010)

For a decent set of wheels you may need to up your budget a little. A middle of the road set of mountain bikes wheels starts around $400, and from what I have been told road wheels are more expensive. The best place to get wheels online is chainreactioncycles.com. They are based in the UK and always have the best deals on wheels.


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## riverc0il (Jun 26, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> For a decent set of wheels you may need to up your budget a little. A middle of the road set of mountain bikes wheels starts around $400, and from what I have been told road wheels are more expensive. The best place to get wheels online is chainreactioncycles.com. They are based in the UK and always have the best deals on wheels.


I was assuming at least $300 for something decent. Maybe a little more. Though mondeo seems to suggest it is me and not the wheels. :x


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## mondeo (Jun 26, 2010)

MR. evil said:


> For a decent set of wheels you may need to up your budget a little. A middle of the road set of mountain bikes wheels starts around $400, and from what I have been told road wheels are more expensive. The best place to get wheels online is chainreactioncycles.com. They are based in the UK and always have the best deals on wheels.


Road componentry is, once you get to a certain level, almost completely weight driven. Given that my bike is top end of the aluminum ladder for Jamis, and they aren't that light, I'd think their durability level would be up there with any other wheelset, but...



riverc0il said:


> I was assuming at least $300 for something decent. Maybe a little more. Though mondeo seems to suggest it is me and not the wheels. :x


From the brief stuff I looked at, it seems like those wheels have a mixed reputation. Might be set to set variability, bad batch, whatever. I might just have good luck, or just don't pay as much attention.


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## bvibert (Jun 26, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I have no experience with spokes, but comparing the front wheel to the rear wheel there is noticeable difference in tension, worse on the drivetrain side.



Different how?  They should be tighter on the drive side of the rear wheel.  Both sides of the front wheel should be the same and similar to the non-drive side of the rear wheel.  

Machine built wheels can be hit or miss as far as the equalness of the tensions goes (usually more miss).  Perhaps your set wasn't too even to begin with, while Mondeo's was (or his LBS retensioned the wheel before he picked it up).  Seems like once a wheel gets out of whack it's hard to get it to stay true, since the spoke tensions usually need to be uneven to get the wheel to be true again.

Disclaimer: I have no experience with road wheels, but I believe the basics of wheel construction are the same between road and MTB.

My current set of machine built wheels came with very uneven tensions in the rear wheel, so I completely untensioned it and redid of from scratch.  So far the wheel has stayed perfectly trued, and I'm not easy on wheels.  My last set (of the same wheel) I didn't bother to check before using them and I started breaking spokes before too long.


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## andyaxa (Jun 29, 2010)

Have you had a look around http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/ ? I have heard from a few people who have had very good experiences with them. They build all their wheels inhouse. I'm not sure if you're racing or how high end you want to go but you can get a pair of Mavic Open Sports (32spokes) w/105 hubs for around $200. You can mix and match if you want, uprading hubs to Ultegra or DA, etc. Personally I'm thinking of just getting the Mavic CXP22 w/105 hubs for my cyclocross. Should be just fine for my needs and budget.


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## gorgonzola (Jun 29, 2010)

iv'e heard good things about bicyclewheelwarehouse also but haven't bought anything there. i just bought a workstand from http://stores.ebay.com/bikeislandsite - great seller and i see they had some pretty decent deals on wheelsets as well


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## bvibert (Jun 29, 2010)

Bicyclewheelwarehouse.com is well regarded in the MTB community, from what I've heard online anyway.  They're all hand built, which assuming the hands building them know what they're doing, is just as important as the parts that go into them, IMHO.


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## tjf67 (Jun 29, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> I think I already know the answer to this one but I just need some fellow roadies to verify my concern and tell me to pony up the money and stop being such a cheap skate. :lol:  :roll:
> 
> My bike came with Shimano WH-R500 wheels in a 20/24 spoke configuration. I was so concerned with getting good drivetrain components when I bought the bike, I never thought to ensure the wheels were quality.
> 
> ...




To get a better set of wheels that you already have I am thinking you are going to need to spend 600 bucks or so.  Wait till Mark chimes in he knows what he is talking about.


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## marcski (Jun 29, 2010)

I've been saving a bit and am hoping to take the plunge in the next couple of months to a pair of Mavic Ksyrium SL's....$800 range....

Wheels can make a huge difference...rolling weight plus stiffness etc.


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## roark (Jun 29, 2010)

Whenver I think about new wheels it inevitibly leads to thinking about a new bike... piecemeal components are so expensive!


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## mondeo (Jun 29, 2010)

Hmm, think we need the resident roadie expert in here.

Can one of the mods add "chainsaw," "fire extinguishing," or "goats" to the title?


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## skidmarks (Jun 30, 2010)

The R500 wheels that came with your bike should be fine provided the shop you purchased the bike from adjusted and tensioned the spokes. We ask to get the bike back within 30 days to re-adjust everthing to prevent this from happening. 

I'm pushing 190LBS and I've always had great luck with Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels. The pair I'm on has at least 12K+ on them over 5 years and last year someone even crashed into my back wheel locking it up at 25MPH and bending 3 spokes. Once I put the new spokes in the wheel was as good as new.

My advice is to wait till you have $500-$800 to spend on a pair of $700-$1100 MSRP Wheels. Keep the R500 Wheels as back-ups

PS: Don't try that durability testing at home


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## mlctvt (Jul 1, 2010)

+1 on Chainreactioncycles.com

I bought 2 sets of Dura-Ace WH-7850-C24-CL wheels from them earlier this year. The best price I could find in the US was $1299 pr. Chain Reaction's price was $640.00 shipped via Royal Mail/ US postal service.  Their pricing will depend upon the exchange rate the day you order.
These are fantastic wheels with the best reviews I saw of any Road wheelsets.Titanium hubs with Carbon rims but with a bonded aluminum braking surface. I understand the Ultegra wheels are the same design but much less expensive since they use aluminum hubs and all aluminum rims, you may want check them out.


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## marcski (Jul 1, 2010)

ROCK ON!  Thank you Riv...I've been thinking about new wheels almost since I got my bike....about 4-5 yrs ago now.  I knew which ones I wanted (as I said in my earlier post above in this thread).  A shop near me had a pair of the Ksyrium SL SSC's which are a few years old...but they were very lightly used from an older rider and when I first heard about them, the guy wanted 400. Then he went down to 375 and I was about to pull the plug, but apparently the guy sold them earlier that day on ebay for 450 and pulled them from the guy's shop.  

But...that got me going, and I finally took the plunge through my regular LBS....So I now have ..I have on order...a sweet looking brand spanking new pair of these:







I am stoked.  They should be in next wednesday I'll probably throw on an Ultegra Cassette as the Dura-Ace ones can get uber pricey.


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## riverc0il (Jul 3, 2010)

roark said:


> Whenver I think about new wheels it inevitibly leads to thinking about a new bike... piecemeal components are so expensive!


Yea, I had thought about that issue. Upgrading to a new bike only one year after I bought my first one just does not seem like a good return on investment. But paying 1/3 of the price of a bike for a pair of new wheels is a hard price to swallow. My thoughts are that if I buy a quality wheel, I can move it over to a new bike down the road if it comes to that.



mondeo said:


> Hmm, think we need the resident roadie expert in here.
> 
> Can one of the mods add "chainsaw," "fire extinguishing," or "goats" to the title?


Pardon my ignorance, but what do these phrases have to do with the Road Wheels title? Is this a MTB thing or something? What is the Goat Farm referencing?



andyaxa said:


> Have you had a look around http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/ ? I have heard from a few people who have had very good experiences with them. They build all their wheels inhouse. I'm not sure if you're racing or how high end you want to go but you can get a pair of Mavic Open Sports (32spokes) w/105 hubs for around $200. You can mix and match if you want, uprading hubs to Ultegra or DA, etc. Personally I'm thinking of just getting the Mavic CXP22 w/105 hubs for my cyclocross. Should be just fine for my needs and budget.


Thanks for all the references, that site is great. Looks like they have some of the cheaper prices around and good to know that they have a good reputation. I had been looking at the Mavic Open Pros with Ultegra hubs. Looks like it would be about $300. I'll take a few more rides on my current wheels and make a decision of it would be worth the price to upgrade.

Thanks for all the responses!


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## marcski (Jul 3, 2010)

I thought the goat farm reference was to attract Marc to respond to this post since that is where he usually finds his dates, no?


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## riverc0il (Jul 3, 2010)

marcski said:


> I thought the goat farm reference was to attract Marc to respond to this post since that is where he usually finds his dates, no?


Ah, wow, I am slow. Makes perfect sense now. :lol: Would be nice to hear from Marc. I did check out his thread on his then new Easton EA70 wheels before posting.


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## mondeo (Jul 3, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Yea, I had thought about that issue. Upgrading to a new bike only one year after I bought my first one just does not seem like a good return on investment. But paying 1/3 of the price of a bike for a pair of new wheels is a hard price to swallow. My thoughts are that if I buy a quality wheel, I can move it over to a new bike down the road if it comes to that.


But for the bike that comes with those wheels, you're no longer talking 1/3rd of the price.

If it makes you feel any better, one crash on my MTB is costing me 1/2 the price of the bike.


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## mlctvt (Jul 4, 2010)

riverc0il said:


> Thanks for all the references, that site is great. Looks like they have some of the cheaper prices around and good to know that they have a good reputation. I had been looking at the Mavic Open Pros with Ultegra hubs. Looks like it would be about $300. I'll take a few more rides on my current wheels and make a decision of it would be worth the price to upgrade.
> 
> Thanks for all the responses!



Steve- Open Pros with Ultegra hubs are a great choice. We ran these for over 20 years until all these new fangled wheels started coming out several years ago. Our 1994 Trek 5200s still have these wheels on them with 50,000+ miles on them. We only had to replace the rear rim on one due to brake surface wear but no other problems at all. Just normal service of the bearings.


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## riverc0il (Jul 12, 2010)

mlctvt said:


> Steve- Open Pros with Ultegra hubs are a great choice. We ran these for over 20 years until all these new fangled wheels started coming out several years ago. Our 1994 Trek 5200s still have these wheels on them with 50,000+ miles on them. We only had to replace the rear rim on one due to brake surface wear but no other problems at all. Just normal service of the bearings.


Pretty sure I am going to upgrade and choice is down to either the Open Pros or the CXP33 (Ultegra Hub either way). Not much more money for the CXP33 which reports suggest is a stronger rim if just 20g heavier per wheel. That is a total of a 0.1 pound increase. At 210lbs, I am not light enough to be able to feel that difference in bike weight so I might just up for the CXP33 which seems more bomb proof for about the same price.


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## deadheadskier (Jul 12, 2010)

mondeo said:


> Hmm, think we need the resident roadie expert in here.
> 
> Can one of the mods add "chainsaw," "fire extinguishing," or "goats" to the title?





marcski said:


> I thought the goat farm reference was to attract Marc to respond to this post since that is where he usually finds his dates, no?



......I tried.


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## Marc (Jul 15, 2010)

Somehow I missed this thread.



What was the question again?


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## marcski (Jul 15, 2010)

My new wheels came in on tuesday and got them installed yesterday.  

So, with this upgrade, I ended up getting the Ksyrium SL's, a new ultegra cassette, 2 new Conti GP 4000's, upgraded to ultegra brakes, new cables, cable housings and new handlebar tape.  

I took it out for my regular ride this morning....and the bike felt great, wheels were very smooth and i noticed that it handled great and was definitely more nimble with these wheels.  It was a bit humid and I didn't eat that much for dinner last night..so I wasn't putting out my top power levels...but I definitely felt that the wheels were definitely stiffer and gave back more than my old ones when powering up hills.  I'm quite happy with this upgrade....


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## riverc0il (Jul 16, 2010)

Went with the CXP33 rims with Ultegra hubs. Just a touch heavier than the Open Pros but reviews and reports suggested that the CXP33 was the stronger rim so it was worth the extra weight because, heck, that is why I am upgrading any ways.

Since I still have stock tires, also decided to upgrade those and I went with the Conti GP 4000s. Weight savings in the tires should off set the weight increase on the wheels.

So to answer Marc's question, never mind, this is more a topic for the Out for Delivery thread at this point


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