# Back to the King of Spring debate



## SIKSKIER (Apr 18, 2013)

Can the Beast really be the latest king of spring when Sugarloaf still has over 1000 acres of skiing open to K's 137?Lets hear it.


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## andyzee (Apr 18, 2013)

There is no debate, it'll be Killington.


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## skiking4 (Apr 18, 2013)

In the long run, that glacier on superstar is lasting til the snow falls again.


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Sugarloaf still has over 1000 acres of skiing open


How much of that is lift served? This trip report makes it sound like they expect you to hike for an awful lot of those acres.
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/121011-Sugarloaf-4-16-amp-4-17


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## thetrailboss (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> How much of that is lift served? This trip report makes it sound like they expect you to hike for an awful lot of those acres.
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/121011-Sugarloaf-4-16-amp-4-17




Probably more than 137 acres.

And to the underlying question, it will come down to who is open longer.  Right now Sugarloaf has the advantage it seems with quantity of terrain, but will it be there in the end?


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## ScottySkis (Apr 18, 2013)

Yes K is determined this year they will be the last I sure.


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## Riverskier (Apr 18, 2013)

The King of Spring as defined by most on this site is the ski area that is the last one to close. Pretty sure that honor will be bestowed upon Killington this year. That said, I think Sugarloaf is hands down the best Spring skiing mountain in the East. Their snow preservation is unmatched. They are 100% open and completely buried right now. Yeah, they have above average snow pack right now, but I am sure many remember the 100+ inch April of 2007, and it is not uncommon even in an average Spring to be skiing natural snow trails in May. So by one definition, no they are not likely to be the King of Spring this year, but they are the King of Spring in my mind by offering the best Spring product.


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## xwhaler (Apr 18, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> The King of Spring as defined by most on this site is the ski area that is the last one to close. Pretty sure that honor will be bestowed upon Killington this year. That said, I think Sugarloaf is hands down the best Spring skiing mountain in the East. Their snow preservation is unmatched. They are 100% open and completely buried right now. Yeah, they have above average snow pack right now, but I am sure many remember the 100+ inch April of 2007, and it is not uncommon even in an average Spring to be skiing natural snow trails in May. So by one definition, no they are not likely to be the King of Spring this year, but they are the King of Spring in my mind by offering the best Spring product.



+1 Well said. Loaf and Saddleback are Kings of April-Mid May Spring and K is King after that by virtue of being last man standing. Both are well respected honors but I do think some attention should be given to the fact that the Western Maine big boys are both 100% open (trails and glades) on April 18th.
There's no losers here---we are all winners for the fact that if we so choose we can have late Spring lift served turns at one or multiple places in New England. Great for the industry for competition's sake and great for consumers.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> How much of that is lift served? This trip report makes it sound like they expect you to hike for an awful lot of those acres.
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/121011-Sugarloaf-4-16-amp-4-17


It's all lift served.The only hiking would be same as always in Bracket Basin.Midweek does have a few less lifts but most places do that.Lift served right to the top.


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## steamboat1 (Apr 18, 2013)

Don't forget Killington has closed a large swath of the mountain even though those areas still have plenty of snow.


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## Conrad (Apr 18, 2013)

Sugarloaf no doubt. They are still running Timberline when they can, it's just that some windy weather has prevented them from running it certain days this week. Almost 100% open, all lift served, on the largest mountain in the East Coast. If you want to call Killington "King of Summer Skiing" that's great, but right now Sugarloaf has demonstrated that they are "King of Spring."

Some of the previous comments have really nailed it, by the way.


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> It's all lift served.The only hiking would be same as always in Bracket Basin.Midweek does have a few less lifts but most places do that.Lift served right to the top.



Even when they run King Pine and Whiffletree, Brackett is far from what I would consider lift served. With those lifts closed, as they are now, at least half the stated acreage is a lie.


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## Conrad (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Even when they run King Pine and Whiffletree, Brackett is far from what I would consider lift served. With those lifts closed, as they are now, at least half the stated acreage is a lie.



I would consider them lift served and definitely consider them eligible for the acreage count. Even if you have to do about 15 minutes of hiking, the lifts make a huge difference. If you want to call out the lowest part of Brackett Basin where you can't get back to the lifts (without Snubber running), then that is different, though.


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## JimG. (Apr 18, 2013)

The argument has always been who is the last to close. The amount of acreage open is irrelevant. 

And there is another issue to consider. I would not consider an 8 hour drive each way to ski at Sugarloaf or Sunday River when they are less than 100% open. It makes no sense. To me, either may as well be in Colorado or California. So do I now include areas out west for consideration as the Kings of Spring?

Of course not. Because under those conditions anyone on the east coast loses. Whoever is that last one still open wins the honor, all this other semantic stuff is not relevant.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Even when they run King Pine and Whiffletree, Brackett is far from what I would consider lift served. With those lifts closed, as they are now, at least half the stated acreage is a lie.



Have you skied Brackett Basin?


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Have you skied Brackett Basin?


Every time I go it is closed. Skied, and enjoyed, Cant Dog many times. I know the area. Thanks for asking.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Every time I go it is closed. Skied, and enjoyed, Cant Dog many times. I know the area. Thanks for asking.



Everything that is accessible from the King Pine lift in Bracket Basin is also accessible from Skyline chair.  50% of Bracket's terrain, maybe more, is accessible via lift with no hiking required.  

and you're welcome for asking :lol:


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## Conrad (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Everything that is accessible from the King Pine lift in Bracket Basin is also accessible from Skyline chair.  50% of Bracket's terrain, maybe more, is accessible via lift with no hiking required.
> 
> and you're welcome for asking :lol:



Exactly, most of Brackett Basin's terrain is accessible to and from by lifts with no hiking required as long as you make the distinction between hiking and traversing.


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## Conrad (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Every time I go it is closed. Skied, and enjoyed, Cant Dog many times. I know the area. Thanks for asking.



Maybe it's just too far away from the island? :wink:


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Everything that is accessible from the King Pine lift in Bracket Basin is also accessible from Skyline chair.  50% of Bracket's terrain, maybe more, is accessible via lift with no hiking required.
> 
> and you're welcome for asking :lol:


Please explain to our readers how you get back from Brackett when the Whiffletree Quad is also closed. Please be specific about how long those traverses are. Thank you.

Next I bet you will tell me Jay should include the acreage from The Dip because it is just a simple hitchhike to get back.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Please explain to our readers how you get back from Brackett when the Whiffletree Quad is also closed. Please be specific about how long those traverses are. Thank you.
> 
> Next I bet you will tell me Jay should include the acreage from The Dip because it is just a simple hitchhike to get back.



Huh?  Whiffletree has nothing to do with skiing Brackett Basin if the King Pine isn't running. 

You head back down to the base and take the Double Runners up to Skyline again.  There's about 30 members of this forum that did it over and over again two seasons ago during the AZ summit when King Pine was on wind hold.  

Maybe you should take a break from skiing Killington one of these years and join us for the Summit.


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Huh?  Whiffletree has nothing to do with skiing Brackett Basin if the King Pine isn't running.
> 
> You head back down to the base and take the Double Runners up to Skyline again.  There's about 30 members of this forum that did it over and over again two seasons ago during the AZ summit when King Pine was on wind hold.
> 
> Maybe you should take a break from skiing Killington one of these years and join us for the Summit.



Whiffletree does not matter? Then you are just talking about the top portion of Brackett. OK. That knocks off a bunch of acreage right there.

In addition to the very lengthy traverses, you also need to ride 2 fixed grip lifts. How long did each lap take? :wink:

I may join you guys for the summit one of these years, but I sure won't be wasting my time doing that commute back and forth to Brackett if those lifts are not running.

I love Sugarloaf too, but I hate marketing lies. Over 1,000 acres my a--.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Sorry Sugarloaf's marketing gets your panties in a bunch. :lol: 

Look, Killington is doing great things this year.  They'll likely finish the season as the last mountain standing and being well deserving of the King of Spring title.

Fact is for tomorrow, who has the most terrain open by far in the East?  It's Sugarloaf.  Call it 700 acres if it makes you feel better.  That's still more skiable terrain available than any other ski area in the east by far.  Hell, that's more than any other mountain even has to offer at 100% operation, save for Killington.

Killington is doing great things.  The fact that Sugarloaf in the middle of no where is still going for it with their ski operations (arguably more so than Killington currently is with most of their mountain shuttered) is also a very good thing.  To shit on that like you're doing?  Well, that just sounds like sour grapes to me.


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## snowmonster (Apr 18, 2013)

Is Cant Dog part of Brackett Basin? I never considered it since it was on the trail map even before Brackett was opened. 

King of Spring? Last ski mountain spinning lifts, right?


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

It is not just Sugarloaf's marketing that bothers me. It is also the marketing you are doing for them at AlpineZone. I know they treat you nice, and you want that to continue, but maybe some of your posts should have that little "advertisement" disclaimer on them. I can only imagine the kind of stuff you would post if Killington tried to artificially increase their acreage in a similar manner.


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## twinplanx (Apr 18, 2013)

^you seem very angry little buddy...maybe confused, have you been hit on the head with a coconut recently? Lol


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## Conrad (Apr 18, 2013)

I just want to say that while you do have a tiny point about how part of the terrain is not lift serviced, like deadheadskier said, I am perfectly comfortable calling it 700-800 acres which is by far the most in the East and doesn't make much of a difference whether it is that or 1,000 acres. The image I have below is what I consider lift serviced terrain. And even then, I believe you can call a shuttle if you venture too far below lift serviced areas, although I am not sure since it is late in the season.


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## gmcunni (Apr 18, 2013)

sum funy chit goin on here


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> It is not just Sugarloaf's marketing that bothers me. It is also the marketing you are doing for them at AlpineZone. I know they treat you nice, and you want that to continue, but maybe some of your posts should have that little "advertisement" disclaimer on them. I can only imagine the kind of stuff you would post if Killington tried to artificially increase their acreage in a similar manner.



Me?  Advertising for Sugarloaf?  :lol:  

I'd hardly rank Sugarloaf in the top five of mountains I "market" for on AZ, if that's what you call someone posting about ski areas they like on an Internet Forum.  In the past five years, I've actually probably marketed for Tenney, Ragged and Gunstock more so than any other areas because those are the mountains I've had a pass at.  I suppose you think I might also get a commission check from Okemo for chiming in support of them in the Okemo vs Loon thread the past couple of days.  :lol:  

And newsflash.....I really do like Killington.  I've been skiing there for 28 years.  Next to Stowe and Okemo, it's by far the mountain I've visited the most in my lifetime. Hell, my second best day of this season was there (sorry I didn't post a Trip Report and market your favorite mountain for you).  I've skied Killington almost ever year of my skiing life.  I'll be there at least one more time before the season is done.  I've been super stoked and vocally supportive of what K has been doing this year all season.  I will however, take exception to postings from people like yourself and skiersleft who are such K fanatics that your support of the mountain goes beyond promoting your favorite place, to putting down other ski mountains and those who may like those mountains better than your favorite. 

Not sure why you're so hung up on acreage and size, though that's a common K skier issue.  For the record, "I THINK KILLINGTON IS THE BIGGEST SKI AREA IN THE EAST".   It is.  It skis the biggest in the east to me.  But it doesn't tomorrow; that would be Sugarloaf.  And if Killington added on "artificial acreage" tomorrow (If "artificial acreage" is what you consider cutting and maintaining 100s of acres of side country terrain to be) I'd be STOKED to ski it.  Hope it happens.  Don't want to see the interconnect happen at K because I like Pico as a separate entity, but they go hog wild cutting trees south all the way to Ludlow and I'd be psyched........and really wouldn't give a crap about the marketing behind it.

I'm no Sugarloaf fluffer more so than just about anywhere.  I've literally skied 90% of the ski areas over 800 vertical feet in Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine over the past five years.  I love it all.


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## EPB (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Even when they run King Pine and Whiffletree, Brackett is far from what I would consider lift served. With those lifts closed, as they are now, at least half the stated acreage is a lie.



They're claiming 1064 "skiable acres" of terrain open as of the last report.  It makes no mention of whether or not the terrain is all served by lifts, just that they permit people to ski down trails that total 1064 acres.  To be clear, they did not "lie" about anything, so we can save the bombastic "they lied to us" rhetoric for another day...

As far as what can be accessed by lifts, the mountain claims 1153 acres of total terrain, so 89 acres has been closed by patrol/the powers that be.  If my memory serves correctly, they had ~650 acres pre-Brackett Basin.  Subtract 90 acres and you've got ~570 acres of runs within the actual boundary lines.  If we subtract acreage from the bottom half of West Mtn below the cutoff and the two condo trails (one under the Snubber lift and one that is to the East of the Snubber lift), lets say they're at about 550 acres.  People can feel free to come in and correct me, but I'd guess that between 150 and 250 acres of Brackett can be accessed without taking off your skis.  With that assumption, between 700 and 800 acres are truly served by lifts, by reasonable standards, at this point in time.  For those keeping score, that's 5.1x to 5.8x the skiable acreage claimed by Killington.


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## Conrad (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> It is not just Sugarloaf's marketing that bothers me. It is also the marketing you are doing for them at AlpineZone. I know they treat you nice, and you want that to continue, but maybe some of your posts should have that little "advertisement" disclaimer on them. I can only imagine the kind of stuff you would post if Killington tried to artificially increase their acreage in a similar manner.



It would make no sense if every time anyone said something positive about a ski area they had to put an "advertisement disclaimer" next to it, especially if they don't work at that ski area.


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## EPB (Apr 18, 2013)

PS. I didn't see Conrad's map, but great job.


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Killington...Killington...K...K...K...KILLINGTON...K


In all my posts in this thread I think I mentioned Killington once. You just mentioned it 7 times in one post. Who has Killington on their mind?

I know you like Killington. I see your posts on KillingtonZone all the time. I also saw you get reamed over there a few days ago. Have not seen a post from you since!


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## deadheadskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> In all my posts in this thread I think I mentioned Killington once. You just mentioned it 7 times in one post. Who has Killington on their mind?
> 
> I know you like Killington. I see your posts on KillingtonZone all the time. I also saw you get reamed over there a few days ago. Have not seen a post from you since!



Should I go back over there and make a post to make you feel better? 

Do you honestly think I even care about McGuillicutty "reaming" me in this positive thread about K's spring season?

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36760

I saw it and got a good laugh at the poor attempt at trying to insult me.  Yup, fella got me so good, I've tucked tail and ran.  Taking my ball on gone home.   

Who are you on Kzone by the way?  I haven't seen a Gilligan over there.


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## Cannonball (Apr 18, 2013)

JimG. said:


> The argument has always been who is the last to close. The amount of acreage open is irrelevant.
> 
> And there is another issue to consider. I would not consider an 8 hour drive each way to ski at Sugarloaf or Sunday River when they are less than 100% open. It makes no sense. To me, either may as well be in Colorado or California. So do I now include areas out west for consideration as the Kings of Spring?



But you aren't the center of the universe in this discussion. Plenty of people live closer to sugarloaf than to Killington. Should that make them write off Killington from the discussion? The fact that you happen to live really far away from sugarloaf is irrelevant.


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## EPB (Apr 18, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> But you aren't the center of the universe in this discussion. Plenty of people live closer to sugarloaf than to Killington. Should that make them write off Killington from the discussion? The fact that you happen to live really far away from sugarloaf is irrelevant.



Agreed.  Sugarloaf and Saddleback are definitely the best late season options until the K Glacier is the last trail standing. Sugarloaf is more convenient for me assuming that I leave all my stuff in the Mount Washington Valley, which I do for the most part.  I've always tried to look at it from a driving time-agnostic point of view.


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## Gilligan (Apr 18, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> Should I go back over there and make a post to make you feel better?
> 
> Do you honestly think I even care about McGuillicutty "reaming" me in this positive thread about K's spring season?
> 
> ...



I do not post on Kzone. Plenty of people over there to step in when the facts get misrepresented. No need for me. I do enjoy reading the stuff, though. Very informative.

What are these 12 places in the East that you would rather ski before Killington?


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## snoseek (Apr 18, 2013)

I skied K today and have to say I'm impressed with the amount of snow laid down on Superstar and skylark/bittersweet. Reminds me of when i skied there back in the 90's...they mean business and we all win in that battle

That said Stowe on Monday was just incredible....i need to spend a couple winters there before i get old


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## steamboat1 (Apr 18, 2013)




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## EPB (Apr 18, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> What are these 12 places in the East that you would rather ski before Killington?



Not to turn this into a pissing contest, because I like Killington, but I'll give it a shot:

1) Stowe
2) Sugarbush
3) Sugarloaf
4) Jay Peak
5) Mont Sainte Anne
6) Le Massif
7) Saddleback
8 )Wildcat
9) Cannon
10) Mont Orford
11) Smugglers Notch*
12) Mad River Glen*

The first ten I've been to and would go to again before Killington.  The last two I haven't been to, but would rather ski before I return...

I'd prefer to look at what Killington is.... I'd classify it as a top tier size-wise ski resort (~600+ acres) that has great terrain, good natural snowfall, a ton of options for everyone, but has a tendency to get seriously crowded.

Places I'd say fit that bill are:

Sugarloaf
Sunday River
Mount Snow
Okemo
Tremblant
Killington

I'd say Sugarloaf is clearly better among those options, but Killington is roughly on par with Tremblant and head-and-shoulders better than the rest.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 19, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I do not post on Kzone. Plenty of people over there to step in when the facts get misrepresented. No need for me. I do enjoy reading the stuff, though. Very informative.
> 
> What are these 12 places in the East that you would rather ski before Killington?



"no need for me"

:lol:

Well, I have no need to answer your question.  Hope everyone has fun skiing this weekend wherever they go.  Where it is doesn't matter; the fun is what matters.  I'll be sitting this one out unfortunately; gotta work.


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## JimG. (Apr 19, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> But you aren't the center of the universe in this discussion. Plenty of people live closer to sugarloaf than to Killington. Should that make them write off Killington from the discussion? The fact that you happen to live really far away from sugarloaf is irrelevant.



Never said I was. But there are alot of skiers who live very close to me who feel the same as I do. That would be the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. I'm pretty sure that is clearly a much larger population than those who live a comparable distance to the Maine areas. Part of the spring "stay open" equation for most ski resorts is skier visits. All I'm saying is that Killington has a clear advantage over the Maine ski areas when it comes to access. Much closer to large population centers. 

Because of that, the amount of open terrain becomes less important than the access to that terrain. That means Killington has a greater chance of staying open profitably. Which means they are in a better position to be the King of Spring. 

None of any of which matters at all until we see who is left standing at the end.


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## andyzee (Apr 19, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Never said I was. But there are alot of skiers who live very close to me who feel the same as I do. That would be the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. I'm pretty sure that is clearly a much larger population than those who live a comparable distance to the Maine areas. Part of the spring "stay open" equation for most ski resorts is skier visits. All I'm saying is that Killington has a clear advantage over the Maine ski areas when it comes to access. Much closer to large population centers.
> 
> Because of that, the amount of open terrain becomes less important than the access to that terrain. That means Killington has a greater chance of staying open profitably. Which means they are in a better position to be the King of Spring.
> 
> None of any of which matters at all until we see who is left standing at the end.



Jim agree with you for the most part, however, this late in the season don't believe it's about profitability with regards to immediate profit. It's more a matter of bragging right and future profitability in terms of season pass sales. Don't have any numbers to back me up, but I do not believe any mountain in the north east will be turning a real profit in May/June.


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## EPB (Apr 19, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Never said I was. But there are alot of skiers who live very close to me who feel the same as I do. That would be the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. I'm pretty sure that is clearly a much larger population than those who live a comparable distance to the Maine areas. Part of the spring "stay open" equation for most ski resorts is skier visits. All I'm saying is that Killington has a clear advantage over the Maine ski areas when it comes to access. Much closer to large population centers.
> 
> Because of that, the amount of open terrain becomes less important than the access to that terrain. That means Killington has a greater chance of staying open profitably. Which means they are in a better position to be the King of Spring.
> 
> None of any of which matters at all until we see who is left standing at the end.



So are we supposed to believe that Killington is a better ski area that in it would otherwise be because it's more easily accessible from large population centers?  I see no reason why the logic presented would only be applicable to April/May e.g. "Killington is a better ski area than Sugarloaf because it it closer to New York City."

In terms of year-in-year-out natural snowpack/conditions and terrain offerings this time of year, Sugarloaf>Killington, period.  If Sugarloaf is prohibitively far away, too bad (and I do mean that, though it might not come through properly via internet), it offers a more complete product as ski season winds down.


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## ScottySkis (Apr 19, 2013)

eastern powder baby said:


> So are we supposed to believe that Killington is a better ski area that in it would otherwise be because it's more easily accessible from large population centers?  I see no reason why the logic presented would only be applicable to April/May e.g. "Killington is a better ski area than Sugarloaf because it it closer to New York City."
> 
> In terms of year-in-year-out natural snowpack/conditions and terrain offerings this time of year, Sugarloaf>Killington, period.  If Sugarloaf is prohibitively far away, too bad (and I do mean that, though it might not come through properly via internet), it offers a more complete product as ski season winds down.



I had a season pass to Killington the last year of the ASC, and haven't been back since lots of good stuffgoing on finally this year so I plan on going next season assuming I have a reliable car by then. I finally like what ownership is doing.


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## Gilligan (Apr 19, 2013)

eastern powder baby said:


> So are we supposed to believe that Killington is a better ski area that in it would otherwise be because it's more easily accessible from large population centers?  I see no reason why the logic presented would only be applicable to April/May e.g. "Killington is a better ski area than Sugarloaf because it it closer to New York City."


Sugarloaf is no closer (time wise) to NYC/Philly than hopping a plane to A-basin. For most Eastern skiers Sugarloaf is not relevant this time of year when a day or 2 is all they will ski. For much of the Pocono/Catskill crowd even K is not worth the long drive.


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## EPB (Apr 19, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Sugarloaf is no closer (time wise) to NYC/Philly than hopping a plane to A-basin. For most Eastern skiers Sugarloaf is not relevant this time of year when a day or 2 is all they will ski. For much of the Pocono/Catskill crowd even K is not worth the long drive.



I understand where you're coming from but have a question: why would people in that situation even concern themselves with who has the best spring skiing?

EDIT:  In the east, that is, because that's what this conversation is about.


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## EPB (Apr 19, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I had a season pass to Killington the last year of the ASC, and haven't been back since lots of good stuffgoing on finally this year so I plan on going next season assuming I have a reliable car by then. I finally like what ownership is doing.



Good stuff.  I used to love the ASC pass growing up.


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## Gilligan (Apr 19, 2013)

eastern powder baby said:


> I understand where you're coming from but have a question: why would people in that situation even concern themselves with who has the best spring skiing?



I did not. I was only trying to address the overstated acreage issue at Sugarloaf from a purely "truth in advertising" perspective. I cannot speak for anyone else.


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## ScottySkis (Apr 19, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I did not. I was only trying to address the overstated acreage issue at Sugarloaf from a purely "truth in advertising" perspective. I cannot speak for anyone else.



So I guess truth would be saying Killington is 1600 skiabke vertically mot what ever 2800 or what ever they claim. I okay with areas doing this for marketing but all of them do it, k has lots of other good stuff to me not their ski able vertical which is fine if I want more I go to north Vermont.


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## EPB (Apr 19, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I did not. I was only trying to address the overstated acreage issue at Sugarloaf from a purely "truth in advertising" perspective. I cannot speak for anyone else.



Are you implying that they're not in the East or something?


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## Gilligan (Apr 19, 2013)

eastern powder baby said:


> Are you implying that they're not in the East or something?



No.


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## EPB (Apr 19, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> No.



I must've gotten confused with what you said you were addressing.  My mistake.  This thread is getting a little too ridiculous for me though.  I'm out.  Have a good one.


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## Cannonball (Apr 19, 2013)

JimG. said:


> Never said I was. But there are alot of skiers who live very close to me who feel the same as I do. That would be the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. I'm pretty sure that is clearly a much larger population than those who live a comparable distance to the Maine areas. Part of the spring "stay open" equation for most ski resorts is skier visits. All I'm saying is that Killington has a clear advantage over the Maine ski areas when it comes to access. Much closer to large population centers.
> 
> Because of that, the amount of open terrain becomes less important than the access to that terrain. That means Killington has a greater chance of staying open profitably. Which means they are in a better position to be the King of Spring.
> 
> None of any of which matters at all until we see who is left standing at the end.



Gotcha.  I didn't understand the original question.  If the Question is "Of all the areas that most New Yorkers don't mind driving to, which will stay open latest?"....then I totally agree it has to be Killington.


----------



## MadPatSki (Apr 19, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> Gotcha.  I didn't understand the original question.  If the Question is "Of all the areas that most New Yorkers don't mind driving to, which will stay open latest?"....then I totally agree it has to be Killington.



Yes, it sounded that way. Not the first time I hear talking about Sugarloaf versus the 'might be as well be in the West' statement.

King of Spring? I don't care for the title, there are a bunch of places that will offer great skiing this weekend. Go out if you can.

I updated by Blog post; Eastern Closing Part 3...the count is 25 for this weekend (one area in Quebec (Le Valinouet) with 100% coverage will not reopen and calling it a season due to rain this weekend). Regardless, there should be a few good options next weekend and into May.


----------



## Conrad (Apr 19, 2013)

On a side note, Sugarloaf is reopening the King Pine lift this weekend.


----------



## andyzee (Apr 19, 2013)

Conrad said:


> On a side note, Sugarloaf is reopening the King Pine lift this weekend.



More like a bottom note


----------



## Cannonball (Apr 19, 2013)

Conrad said:


> On a side note, Sugarloaf is reopening the King Pine lift this weekend.



You mean the king (of spring) Pine lift.


----------



## Nick (Apr 19, 2013)

I've been insane at work for the last 3 weeks so I misses this fun thread. Yay.


----------



## Johnskiismore (Apr 19, 2013)

Conrad said:


> On a side note, Sugarloaf is reopening the King Pine lift this weekend.



That rocks, I'll be there Sunday


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## Conrad (Apr 19, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> You mean the king (of spring) Pine lift.



Of course! :smile:


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 23, 2013)

Killington 115 acres....Sugarloaf 979


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## Angus (Apr 23, 2013)

is Killington staying open daily past 4/28 when Sugarloaf will suspend ops on weekdays? Earlier I've argued that amount of terrain does matter but Killington should be recognized and given credit if they will be running the lifts daily.

as an aside, it is interesting to note saddleback's closing with 100% open and wildcat's decision to close as well. i'm guessing wildcat's decision was based upon skier visits rather than snow on mountain. i'd speculate wildcat was hurt by 1) cold weather this past weekend and 2) SR's free day on sunday in terms of paying customers.


----------



## Puck it (Apr 23, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Killington 115 acres....Sugarloaf 979



Superstar has 8 to 10 feet of snow on the mid section.  I think they will be the latest to close but the weather is staying cold at night so Sugarloaf may give them a run for their snowmaking money.


----------



## Gilligan (Apr 23, 2013)

Angus said:


> is Killington staying open daily past 4/28 when Sugarloaf will suspend ops on weekdays?


"The Superstar Express Quad will be open daily through May 5, 2013, and weekends only starting May 11, 2013"


----------



## Gilligan (Apr 23, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Killington 115 acres....Sugarloaf 979



And Killington is the farthest South of any ski area still open in the East. Why all the Killington hate?


----------



## steamboat1 (Apr 23, 2013)

I think I said it before in this thread. Killington still has lots of snow on sections of the mountain they closed so it's not counted in their acreage count. Snowdon & snowshed still have plenty of snow but are closed. I drove over to Bear this past Saturday to take a look & Outer Limits is still covered top to bottom, side to side but is closed. Even Devils Fiddle still looked skiable. Not knocking Sugarloaf as I've had many excellent spring days there but I think their acreage count is over estimated.


----------



## Conrad (Apr 23, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> And Killington is the farthest South of any ski area still open in the East. Why all the Killington hate?



Oh great! Here we go again.


----------



## Conrad (Apr 23, 2013)

Angus said:


> as an aside, it is interesting to note saddleback's closing with 100% open and wildcat's decision to close as well. i'm guessing wildcat's decision was based upon skier visits rather than snow on mountain. i'd speculate wildcat was hurt by 1) cold weather this past weekend and 2) SR's free day on sunday in terms of paying customers.



Probably similar reasons for Saddleback. Definitely Sunday River's ski mania day, but I'm not sure about the cold weather theory since I'm pretty sure it was mostly spring-like at Saddleback.


----------



## Edd (Apr 23, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> And Killington is the farthest South of any ski area still open in the East. Why all the Killington hate?



Just think of it as a law of physics. There will always be Killington hate. Accept it. 

BTW, I just skied it today for the first time in years.


----------



## JimG. (Apr 23, 2013)

Edd said:


> Just think of it as a law of physics. There will always be Killington hate. Accept it.
> 
> BTW, I just skied it today for the first time in years.



The lightning rod of eastern skiing.

How was the snow today?


----------



## Edd (Apr 23, 2013)

JimG. said:


> The lightning rod of eastern skiing.
> 
> How was the snow today?



No sun. A mix of soft and ice. Visibility was variable up top. Seen a lot of that the last couple of weeks. Happy to be out on the slopes.


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## dlague (Apr 24, 2013)

I think it is funny - the King of Spring debate is really a customer thing than a resort thing!  I think that all resorts that are still have lifts spinning are in that category!  The resorts that are still open have higher traffic compared to others further north - Saddleback may have been at 100% but they are a hike!  Where has Killington being further south can draw from states further south Jay Peak pulls from Montreal, VT, NY, MA and NH, Sugarloaf well they draw from ME and farther away and most stay for the weekend!  Wildcat and Saddleback with their snow do not have the same ability to draw visits!

Here is a resort point of view (Jay Peak) from last year and the year before from FaceBook around the end of April in 2012 and middle of May 2011:

End of April 2012

*Jay Peak Resort* Here's the deal: We are going to operate daily with as much terrain as possible through Sunday. After that, well, it depends on coverage; if we have it, we will be open. And props to The Beast for pushing the VT ski and ride season with us; nice work Killington.  (Last wekend for Jay was May 5th)

May 11th 2011

*Jay Peak Resort* Def not banging on the Loaf (or being falsely modest), just saying that titles aren't our thing and we're not going to overpromise about what we'll be able to do in the future. Just happy to have one last weekend to use the lift ourselves....  (last weekend for Jay Peak was May 15th)

Can't we all just get along?  Killington blew a boat load of snow on a single trail so they paid for it!  It is their turn!  Congrats to the resorts still spinning the lifts!


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## MadPatSki (Apr 24, 2013)

dlague said:


> End of April 2012
> 
> *Jay Peak Resort* Here's the deal: We are going to operate daily with as much terrain as possible through Sunday. After that, well, it depends on coverage; if we have it, we will be open. And props to The Beast for pushing the VT ski and ride season with us; nice work Killington.  (Last wekend for Jay was May 5th)



Jay's last day turned out to be April 29. However the 2011 date is correct.

MadPat, the skidata analyst, historian and geographer.


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## Angus (Apr 24, 2013)

The one "early" closing that's bugging me is Wildcat. Definitely think they could have gone another week - looking at their webcams but assume they elected to close due to economics.

I wonder if from their perspective, they figure the demographic wanting to ski this late is going to arrive in Pinkham Notch and ask "Tuckerman's or Wildcat?" and go with the Ravine.

I've had great days of late spring skiing at Wildcat where you had to cross patches of dirt and gravel...so kind of sad, they didn't push it. Looking out at Mt. Washington and Tuck on a warm spring day is very good for the pysche!

I've also skied SuperStar in late April over the last couple of years too and it's been good too but will say diversity of terrain (Sugarloaf) does help.

Finally, I guess this thread reflects our national character...to quote and take General Patton out of context "*All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. America loves a winner. America will not tolerate a loser.... Americans play to win." 5/17/44*


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 24, 2013)

On another note...Killington groomed most of Superstar last night.


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## gmcunni (Apr 24, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> On another note...Killington groomed most of Superstar last night.


is that good or bad?


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## dlague (Apr 24, 2013)

Stand corrected!  We were there on the 22th last year (our last day of the season 2011-2012)  and I knew they were open past that.

However, I think they might have a hard closing date this year due to construction.


----------



## JimG. (Apr 24, 2013)

Edd said:


> No sun. A mix of soft and ice. Visibility was variable up top. Seen a lot of that the last couple of weeks. Happy to be out on the slopes.



Heh...sounds just like the weekend.


----------



## JimG. (Apr 24, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> is that good or bad?



I wish they would just groom a swath in the middle and leave the rest of it alone.


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## Gilligan (Apr 24, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> On another note...Killington groomed most of Superstar last night.


Seriously? Like when is Killington ever hurting for bumps in the Spring?

I think you need to see someone and talk through all of this Killington envy you seem to have.


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## Cornhead (Apr 24, 2013)

Angus said:


> The one "early" closing that's bugging me is Wildcat. Definitely think they could have gone another week - looking at their webcams but assume they elected to close due to economics.
> 
> I wonder if from their perspective, they figure the demographic wanting to ski this late is going to arrive in Pinkham Notch and ask "Tuckerman's or Wildcat?" and go with the Ravine.
> 
> ...



I think it's all about economics. I skied Wildcat for the first time April 26th, 2011, they got 6" on the 27th, and closed after that weekend. They definitely had enough snow to remain open longer. What a crazy Spring that was, the back side of Sugarloaf was open on April 29th that year, insane.

As for the "King of Spring", who cares? I'm grateful for all the places that are committed to staying open late into the season, probably at a loss. I made it to Killington twice last Spring, hadn't been in ten years, had a blast. Only Superstar, and Skyelark were open, but both skied great, and it was fun skiing with cartoon characters, Bird Man, and Radio Ron, even the boys from Meathead Films were there with their neons and straight skis. I'm also grateful for Killington's commitment since they are five hours closer to me than da Loaf, and considerably closer than Jay too. June turns? That'd be a first for me. Long live the King, whoever the hell it is!


----------



## St. Bear (Apr 24, 2013)

One thing to note about Wildcat is that they are under new management.  While Peaks certainly is aggressive with them staying open, patches of dirt and gravel across the trail may be a bit much for their tastes.


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## WWF-VT (Apr 24, 2013)

> As for the "King of Spring", who cares? I'm grateful for all the places that are committed to staying open late into the season, probably at a loss



Not probably, definitely operating at a loss at this time of year.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Apr 24, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Seriously? Like when is Killington ever hurting for bumps in the Spring?
> 
> I think you need to see someone and talk through all of this Killington envy you seem to have.



What are you talking about?I made no comment up or down about anything discussed on this thread.You are the one that needs to look in the mirror.I will however take a stand on this one.Btw,I like when wide trails are partially groomed so everybody gets what they want.


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## Gilligan (Apr 24, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> What are you talking about?I made no comment up or down about anything discussed on this thread.



You _started_ this thread. Don't play dumb.


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## mister moose (Apr 24, 2013)

WWF-VT said:


> Not probably, definitely operating at a loss at this time of year.



All depends on how you do your bookkeeping.

If you only track daily revenue from lift tickets and F&B, then quite possibly.  What about revenue from spring pass sales?  Those were bought specifically for late spring skiing.

And what about season pass holders?   A pass holder that skis 20 days a year on a $1,200 pass brings to the resort a per visit revenue of $60.  A 40 day per year skier brings $30.  And a spring pass skier that skis 6 times brings $33.  

Or you can just ignore your pass holder base....


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## bigbob (Apr 24, 2013)

Or a pass holder who skis 120 days a year brings $8.75 a day.


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## mister moose (Apr 24, 2013)

bigbob said:


> Or a pass holder who skis 120 days a year brings $8.75 a day.



That guy should buy a beer at the UBar.


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## andyzee (Apr 24, 2013)

mister moose said:


> That guy should buy a beer at the UBar.



I never like buying any food/drinks at a resort. However, beers at the UBar are cool, taste good, Switchback has turned into a fav, and the atmosphere is great.


----------



## SIKSKIER (Apr 25, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> You _started_ this thread. Don't play dumb.



Obviously you don't have to play dumb.I started the thread by asking a question,not giving an opinion.Lighten up lil buddy.


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## dlague (Apr 25, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Can the Beast really be the latest king of spring when Sugarloaf still has over 1000 acres of skiing open to K's 137?Lets hear it.



I have no specific bias, We ski Killinigton as bookends to our season, we are also a fan of Jay Peak, I would love to try Sugarloaf but it is just too much of a drive but it sounds awesome!

I think the point here in terms of King of Spring is not so much about last open (technically that is what people see as the King of Spring) but at this point in time SIKSKIER has a point Sugarloaf definitely has more terrain open, Jay Peak up to mid week last week was 100% open.  So for the weekend of April 27th and 28th who is the King of Spring?  

BTW, Sugarloaf and Jay Peak did not mound up a HUGE pile of man made to stay open the longest.  Killington did and bought the right to the title by making the snow!  If that is what they want then good for Killington.  I do think they will shoot for the first weekend in June on Superstar!

Personally - I really do not care!  It is great that these resorts keep the season alive as long as they do!  Whoever makes it into May are all King's of Spring!  Oh one final point - the negative banter is not chill and in the spirit of our great sport and spring skiing/snowbording!


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Apr 25, 2013)

dlague said:


> Oh one final point - the negative banter is not chill and in the spirit of our great sport and spring skiing/snowbording!



Welcome to the internet...


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 25, 2013)

dlague said:


> I do think they will shoot for the first weekend in June on Superstar!



I'd love to see the Beast get to June like the old days.Good for them.


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## skiadikt (Apr 29, 2013)

guess "this week", killington is king of spring as they're the only ones open with mid-week operations. j, bush & loaf plan/hope to open next weekend. loaf hedging their bets about the following weekend. and then there'll be only one ...


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## Conrad (Apr 29, 2013)

skiadikt said:


> guess "this week", killington is king of spring as they're the only ones open with mid-week operations. j, bush & loaf plan/hope to open next weekend. loaf hedging their bets about the following weekend. and then there'll be only one ...



I would not be surprised if this weekend is the last of the season for Sugarloaf. With 60 degree sunny days all this week, it is really going to be a snow killer.


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## andyzee (Apr 29, 2013)

The true king is back, watch the pretenders fall. LOL


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## Gilligan (Apr 29, 2013)

andyzee said:


> The true king is back, watch the pretenders fall. LOL


+1


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## ScottySkis (Apr 29, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> +1



Glad that their back.


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## SIKSKIER (Apr 29, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I would not be surprised if this weekend is the last of the season for Sugarloaf. With 60 degree sunny days all this week, it is really going to be a snow killer.



They claim they will be open next weekend along with Jay and Sugarbush.The low angle bottom of the loaf really hurts them in this weather.Congrats to The Beast.


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## Riverskier (Apr 29, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> They claim they will be open next weekend along with Jay and Sugarbush.The low angle bottom of the loaf really hurts them in this weather.Congrats to The Beast.



I was at Sugarloaf yesterday and they still have a ton of snow. Pretty impressive to be skiing natural snow trails with good coverage on 4/28. Coverage on the lower mountain is still holding up quite well, and this coming weekend will definitely not be a problem. Lower mountain/runout coverage may prevent them from pushing for the weekend of 5/11-5/12. I am guessing there will still be enough coverage on several trails from Skyline up, but the lower mountain may not make it.


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## Conrad (Apr 29, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> They claim they will be open next weekend along with Jay and Sugarbush. The low angle bottom of the loaf really hurts them in this weather.Congrats to The Beast.



It might have sounded like I was saying Sugarloaf is done for the season, but I meant to see that I think this coming weekend will likely be Sugarloaf's last. They're basically guaranteeing that they will be open this coming weekend, but future after that is uncertain.


----------



## Conrad (Apr 29, 2013)

Riverskier said:


> I was at Sugarloaf yesterday and they still have a ton of snow. Pretty impressive to be skiing natural snow trails with good coverage on 4/28. Coverage on the lower mountain is still holding up quite well, and this coming weekend will definitely not be a problem. Lower mountain/runout coverage may prevent them from pushing for the weekend of 5/11-5/12. I am guessing there will still be enough coverage on several trails from Skyline up, but the lower mountain may not make it.



Hopefully they can use the snow they are bragging about having in their terrain park and make sure they can keep a lower trail open through that second weekend in May.


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## snowmonster (Apr 30, 2013)

^ I think that's the plan. They roped off the skiercross course to preserve the snow. I think they'll be moving that snow down to Candyside to provide access to the Superquad. I've been there when the only way to get back on the lift was a three foot ribbon of snow. Of course, by the end of the day, that had melted away and we were dodging rocks.


----------



## Newpylong (May 1, 2013)

Would love to see the Big K make it to June but it's melting pretty fast with this weather. I think mid to late May is more realistic, though hope I am wrong.


----------



## Nick (May 1, 2013)

Killington's facebook page today, direct from Killington: 



> Killington Golf Course is scheduled to open May 24, 2013 and we're looking to ski and ride through June 2. Ski and golf in the same day anybody?


----------



## Newpylong (May 1, 2013)

so sick. last time they were open until June was in 2002 and it was June 1st. I think they did June 22 back in 97


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## andyzee (May 1, 2013)

Newpylong said:


> so sick. last time they were open until June was in 2002 and it was June 1st. I think they did June 22 back in 97




Yep, 97


----------



## snowmonster (May 1, 2013)

Nick said:


> Killington's facebook page today, direct from Killington:


Would rather ski and surf, Nick.

You know, even with Jay closed, I may still pull it off. Ski Loaf in the morning and early afternoon then surf somewhere on the Maine coast in the early evening. It will be ridiculously cold but doable.:beer:


----------



## MadPatSki (May 1, 2013)

Newpylong said:


> so sick. last time they were open until June was in 2002 and it was June 1st. I think they did June 22 back in 97



You are correct.

SS made it to June from 1992-97 & 2002. 

The only other time was in the 1980s (1982-88 ), the June skiing was off the peak with the old K Peak double with midstation load. Note, first time I skied K was in late May 1984. I believe that Spring operations were moved to SS in 1989 and it took them a few years to figure out how much snow they needed to make it happen there.

Detailed list of Kmart opening from 1966-67 to today included in this post:
http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2012...-are-back-for-its-pass-and-card-holders-only/


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## SIKSKIER (May 2, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Would rather ski and surf, Nick.
> 
> You know, even with Jay closed, I may still pull it off. Ski Loaf in the morning and early afternoon then surf somewhere on the Maine coast in the early evening. It will be ridiculously cold but doable.:beer:


Saw 4 people surfing at Hampton Beach yesterday.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 2, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Would rather ski and surf, Nick.
> 
> You know, even with Jay closed, I may still pull it off. Ski Loaf in the morning and early afternoon then surf somewhere on the Maine coast in the early evening. It will be ridiculously cold but doable.:beer:



If you haven't been to popham Beach in Maine I highly recommend it.  My favorite beach in new england and one of the better surfing spots in maine

Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


----------



## Nick (May 2, 2013)

dlague said:


> Personally - I really do not care!  It is great that these resorts keep the season alive as long as they do!  Whoever makes it into May are all King's of Spring!  Oh one final point - the negative banter is not chill and in the spirit of our great sport and spring skiing/snowbording!



Just brace yourself. Summer can be full of passive aggressive comments by people who miss the snow :lol:


----------



## skiadikt (May 2, 2013)

in '97 they were only closed for 100 days. pretty amazing.


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## snowmonster (May 3, 2013)

SIKSKIER said:


> Saw 4 people surfing at Hampton Beach yesterday.





deadheadskier said:


> If you haven't been to popham Beach in Maine I highly recommend it.  My favorite beach in new england and one of the better surfing spots in maine
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using AlpineZone mobile app


Thanks for the ideas, guys! I usually surf in MA. Perhaps it's time to take my board up north.


----------



## snowmonster (May 3, 2013)

On Sugarloaf's FB page: for this weekend, it looks like, aside from running the Superquad, they're also thinking of spinning Skyline. Game on!


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## Conrad (May 3, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> On Sugarloaf's FB page: for this weekend, it looks like, aside from running the Superquad, they're also thinking of spinning Skyline. Game on!



Are you going to be up there on Sunday? Might have to keep an eye out for each other if I make it up there and if you're up there.


----------



## snowmonster (May 3, 2013)

^ I plan to be up at the Loaf on Sunday. I don't know what I'll be wearing on Sunday but I'll definitely have green boots and white skis. Say hi to the monster!


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## snowmonster (May 3, 2013)

It's official: Superquad and Skyline are both spinning this weekend. Skiable terrain from Sluice to Tote Road.


----------



## Conrad (May 3, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> ^ I plan to be up at the Loaf on Sunday. I don't know what I'll be wearing on Sunday but I'll definitely have green boots and white skis. Say hi to the monster!



Even though Sunday would be the more convenient day for me, it is looking like a might have to settle for a half day on Saturday now. But the other day I was trying to find June pictures of Tuckerman's Ravine and I happened to stumble on this trip report:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/96262-Tuckerman-Ravine-June-4-2011
so I guess I know what snowmonster looks like!

*edit* Now it isn't looking good for this weekend. My ride ended up not being able to ski this weekend.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 4, 2013)

While Killington is sure to be the last Mountain standing, Sugarloaf's product for May 4th is pretty darn impressive.  2 lifts, 31 trails and 149 acres.  Wish I could be there.


----------



## snowmonster (May 4, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Now it isn't looking good for this weekend. My ride ended up not being able to ski this weekend.
> *Trying to delete this post*



Where will you be coming from? If you're on the way, maybe we can give you a lift.


----------



## snowmonster (May 4, 2013)

This just in: with temps in the 70s next week, Sugarloaf just announced that tomorrow Sunday will be their last day of operations this year. Go get 'em, boys!


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## Conrad (May 4, 2013)

snowmonster said:


> Where will you be coming from? If you're on the way, maybe we can give you a lift.



I am a University of Maine at Farmington student so I will be hoping to get from there to the Loaf and back. I actually just found out that when my ride said he couldn't do it, he was talking about Saturday and it is still possible he could go Sunday. But I want to go skiing soooo badly and he bailed on me last weekend so maybe I will have you as a backup. Normally it is a good idea to meet people you meet over the internet first in public places, but you seem plenty nice and there are probably a whole bunch of people here who can vouch for you so I think we are good ha ha


----------



## snowmonster (May 4, 2013)

^ I'm not too sure about that. I'm pretty certain you've seen my mug in the Post Office. :grin: I'll send you a PM and work from there.


----------



## Conrad (May 4, 2013)

Ha ha, I'm just about to send you a message! Can't be too careful I guess.


----------



## aveski2000 (May 4, 2013)

The Loaf's last day is tomorrow. I'll be heading up from Portland.

*Today at Sugarloaf*


Well friends, we have some good news and we have some bad news on this spectacular spring day, so we'll go ahead and get the bad news out of the way first. We've consulted the weather forecasts and looked into our crystal ball, and with a full week of 75 degree heat on the way, tomorrow will officially be our final day of the 2012-13 season. 



The good news of course, is that closing day is absolutely going to be one of the best spring skiing days you're likely to experience. Probably ever. Forecasts are calling for highs around 75, with nothing but bright sunshine all day long. Leave your long sleeves at home and double up on the sunscreen. 



Snow is melting pretty quickly in this heat, but the bumps are still incredible and surfaces are just perfect corn everywhere you turn. Both Skyline and the SuperQuad will be turning once again tomorrow, with the last chair of the season at 3:50 pm. 

Open terrain tomorrow will be pretty similar to what we have today, with a bit more walking required in certain areas. That includes most everything from Tote Road to Sluice, minus a few natural trails like Double Bitter and Sheerboom. There are a handful of trails on the eastern side of the mountain that are still very skiable, including White Nitro, Wedge, and Widowmaker, which as of this afternoon still don't require any walking to get back to Skyline. 



We're definitely going out on top, with one of the best spring weekends we can remember, but do keep in mind that it is May, and it will be 75 degrees again tomorrow. That means you're definitely going to encounter bare spots and unmarked hazards in certain areas, and you may hit spots that require a bit of walking. Grooming will be very minimal, and there is no beginner terrain available. 



Lift tickets for our final day will be just $49 for adults and teens, and just $39 for juniors and seniors.  



Thank you all for an incredible winter, and I hope you can join us here for one final day tomorrow.





*Ethan*
              Sugarloaf Communications Manager


----------



## thetrailboss (May 4, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> While Killington is sure to be the last Mountain standing, Sugarloaf's product for May 4th is pretty darn impressive.  2 lifts, 31 trails and 149 acres.  Wish I could be there.



Just saw this on Killington's website:



> *Spring Operations Outlook
> Conditions permitting, the Superstar Express Quad will be open daily through May 5, 2013. Starting May 6, we will be closed Monday - Thursday and open Friday - Sunday through June 2, 2013, conditions permitting.*


----------



## Skimaine (May 4, 2013)

aveski2000 said:


> The Loaf's last day is tomorrow. I'll be heading up from Portland.



Get there!  Really a lot of snow left.  From Tote Road to Widowmaker there is plenty open. There is a little bit of "adventure skiing" on occasion but no walking required today. (5/4).


----------



## steamboat1 (May 6, 2013)




----------



## Bostonian (May 6, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Just saw this on Killington's website:
> 
> 
> *Spring Operations Outlook*
> ...



I will be there May 18th I hope!!


----------



## andyzee (May 6, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> View attachment 8850



Long Live the King!


----------



## ScottySkis (May 6, 2013)

Congratulations to K and everyone who enjoys May turns, very glad to see them actually be the Beast of the East once again.


----------



## andyzee (May 6, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Congratulations to K and everyone who enjoys May turns, very glad to see them actually be the Beast of the East once again.



So, can we count on seeing you June 1st?


----------



## MadPatSki (May 6, 2013)

Not sure if they're even thinking of June, but MSS still has a lot of snow. They are talking about May 12 closing, but I can see them adding another weekend(s) if people continue to show up.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 6, 2013)

MadPatSki said:


> Not sure if they're even thinking of June, but MSS still has a lot of snow. They are talking about May 12 closing, but I can see them adding another weekend(s) if people continue to show up.



How's the terrain they are currently offering?  Decent Pitch?


----------



## andyzee (May 6, 2013)

MadPatSki said:


> Not sure if they're even thinking of June, but MSS still has a lot of snow. They are talking about May 12 closing, but I can see them adding another weekend(s) if people continue to show up.



No, they definitely are. They seem to be on a mission this year to reclaim their rep. From their conditions page:

_5:00 p.m. 5/05/13-- That's a wrap on a great spring weekend filled with sunshine, soft snow, live music and good times. See you all on Friday, May 10 for what is sure to be another fantastic weekend. 

Next weekend we plan to offer intermediate and advanced terrain only off the Superstar Express Quad. Lift tickets will be $39 for adults. Plus, bring a 2012/13 Season Pass or lift ticket from another resort and we'll give you 50% off on Friday and 25% off on Saturday and Sunday.

The Superstar Express Quad will spin 9:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. on Friday and 8:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. Saturday and Sunday.

*Spring Operations Outlook
Starting May 6, we will be closed Monday - Thursday and open Friday - Sunday through June 2, 2013, conditions permitting.
*_


----------



## ScottySkis (May 6, 2013)

andyzee said:


> So, can we count on seeing you June 1st?



Not this year it was in my plans but my car is gone to shit so saving for new used car or parts for the one I have, but next year I'm sure I be getting a discount card to K and making several trips which I been to K since ASC owend them.


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## MadPatSki (May 6, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> How's the terrain they are currently offering? Decent Pitch?



Let's just say that when I lived in Montreal (pre-1995), I would offer head to Killington in May versus MSS.

There is a good pitch, but it ain't Superstar. Although they are rated black, but could be strong blues. There is a race camp happening this week, but are closed to the public this week.



			
				andyzee said:
			
		

> No, they definitely are. They seem to be on a mission this year to reclaim their rep.



MSS or anything north of the border doesn't count for Kmart. 

I remember then officially saying they were the only ski areas open east of the Rockies back in 1997 (this was in late May or June 1) when MSS and Tremblant were still open. Both ski areas closed on June 1, 1997 - I was at Killington. So they rep isn't irrelevant of what is happening north of the border. I'm far from a fan of MSS and critcized their positive spin marketing over the years, but they have been consistent stretching out the season where no one else has done north of the border.


----------



## Nick (May 7, 2013)

So is that it now? Killington is the last one standing, and they are planning on staying open for an extra MONTH longer than anyone else? That's pretty awesome


----------



## steamboat1 (May 7, 2013)

Nick said:


> So is that it now? Killington is the last one standing, and they are planning on staying open for an extra MONTH longer than anyone else? That's pretty awesome



MSS is scheduled to be open this weekend.


----------



## andyzee (May 7, 2013)

So, when and where is the coronation ceremony?


----------



## Edd (May 7, 2013)

andyzee said:


> So, when and where is the coronation ceremony?



Ok every one say together what the Kfans need to hear.  "Killington is the bestest ski mountain evah"!!!!


----------



## andyzee (May 7, 2013)

Edd said:


> Ok every one say together what the Kfans need to hear.  "Killington is the bestest ski mountain evah"!!!!




Now now, I wouldn't go that far. Just on the east coast. If you feel really strongly about it, you could say western hemisphere


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## ScottySkis (May 7, 2013)

andyzee said:


> Now now, I wouldn't go that far. Just on the east coast. If you feel really strongly about it, you could say western hemisphere



Beast of the East yes, but I still like lots of mountains especially North Vermont better then K, but it is great for where it is.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 7, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Beast of the East yes, but I still like lots of mountains especially North Vermont better then K, but it is great for where it is.



I agree with you Scotty. To me the good skiing in VT. starts at K & work your way north from there. Although I ski K most often because it's the closest place to our house it's nice having the MRV an hour away with Stowe & Smuggs within striking distance for a day trip also. Jay's a bit of a hike.


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## JimG. (May 7, 2013)

I'll definitely ski one more day at K this season.

If they are open on June 1 you would have to admit it is something many folks thought they would never see again.
If they are I will be there.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 7, 2013)

It's going to be close. SS is already showing cancer creeping across the lower section on the webcam. 70+ degree temps today with rain in the forecast next few days.

*RUH ROO!!!!


*


----------



## skiersleft (May 7, 2013)

Killington will not make it to June. This comes from the guy who first (correctly) predicted here over six months ago that they would be both the first to open and last to close. 

Not because of a lack of will. Weather will not permit.


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## andyzee (May 7, 2013)

skiersleft said:


> Killington will not make it to June. This comes from the guy who first (correctly) predicted here over six months ago that they would be both the first to open and last to close.
> 
> Not because of a lack of will. Weather will not permit.




But but but, the next storm is just around the corner!


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## gmcunni (May 7, 2013)

skiersleft said:


> ... This comes from the guy who first (correctly) predicted here over six months ago that ....



could i have tomorrow's lotto numbers please?


----------



## ScottySkis (May 7, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> could i have tomorrow's lotto numbers please?



Shore it is 420694206969420, the one time my grandma didn't buy her lottery ticket all her numbers came in true story.


----------



## gmcunni (May 7, 2013)

andyzee said:


> There is no debate, it'll be Killington.


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## MadPatSki (May 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> MSS is scheduled to be open this weekend.



I just updated my post with the latest info:

MSS officially push for one extra weekend: May 17-18.
Killington still June 2.

The season is definitely not over.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 7, 2013)

MadPatSki said:


> I just updated my post with the latest info:
> 
> MSS officially push for one extra weekend: May 17-18.
> Killington still June 2.
> ...



But who will be the last one standing?


----------



## MadPatSki (May 7, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> But who will be the last one standing?



If Killington wants to make it in June at all cost, they will. On June 1, 1993, you needed to walk at a number of areas on Superstar.

- Walk to the upper headwall.
- Walk at the end of the first headwall and across a few patch. We are talking most of the flat middle part.
- Then continuous snow on the final pitch. The June 1st Slalom was set at the end of the bottom pitch. 
- Walk back to the lift.

It was open, they weren't charging, in those years they were changing on June 1 anyways.
So if they willing to go just to call it June regardless of snow, they will be the last one standing.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 8, 2013)

MadPatSki said:


> If Killington wants to make it in June at all cost, they will. On June 1, 1993, you needed to walk at a number of areas on Superstar.
> 
> - Walk to the upper headwall.
> - Walk at the end of the first headwall and across a few patch. We are talking most of the flat middle part.
> ...



Been there done that with the hiking crap.

Last year they closed with 98% of SS still covered. Only the top of the headwall was washed. Better to walk down a few steps but they made a small strip of snow on top, rocky but skiable. Rest of the trail had good coverage right to the lift. Chair was still ski on ski off.

How far will they push it this year is the question.

Climbing down a steep, wet, rocky slope isn't exactly safe in plastic ski boots.

Is it worth the liability?


----------



## MadPatSki (May 8, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Been there done that with the hiking crap.
> 
> Last year they closed with 98% of SS still covered. Only the top of the headwall was washed. Better to walk down a few steps but they made a small strip of snow on top, rocky but skiable. Rest of the trail had good coverage right to the lift. Chair was still ski on ski off.
> 
> ...



I totally agree...it's all..."how far will they push" even if there is a totally you need to walk 40% of the length of SS. I remember on June 1, 1993, after a few runs off the lift and walking... a few skiers started just hiking up pitch instead of looping on the lift and walk the whole flats. I skied Killington in June from 1992 to 1997, plus May 28-29, 1985 on the Peak where it was pretty pathetic also. 

1993 was by far the worst (not complaining, but if K would have had the same attitude for opening until only patches were left, they would have made it to late May every year.


----------



## Cannonball (May 8, 2013)

MadPatSki said:


> If Killington wants to make it in June at all cost, they will. On June 1, 1993, you needed to walk at a number of areas on Superstar.
> 
> - Walk to the upper headwall.
> - Walk at the end of the first headwall and across a few patch. We are talking most of the flat middle part.
> ...



So what counts as "open". Lifts turning? Lots of places could spin a lift so that people could go hike around in the mud with their ski boots on.


----------



## Newpylong (May 8, 2013)

Cannonball said:


> So what counts as "open". Lifts turning? Lots of places could spin a lift so that people could go hike around in the mud with their ski boots on.



But they don't. So whoever is last with the lift running counts.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

Newpylong said:


> But they don't. So whoever is last with the lift running counts.


Absolutely. That is why I have been so mad at K these last few years when they shut down on a predefined schedule instead of waiting for the snow to run out. I like this year's attitude so much better. Wish more mountains would do the same.


----------



## Nick (May 8, 2013)

Yeah I agree it's lifts running. People are still earning turns on patches of snow at Jay and others.


----------



## deadheadskier (May 8, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Absolutely. That is why I have been so mad at K these last few years when they shut down on a predefined schedule instead of waiting for the snow to run out. I like this year's attitude so much better. Wish more mountains would do the same.



I actually don't wish more mountains would take the approach K is taking this season.   I wouldn't mind seeing some areas scale back their midweek operations a bit earlier in the spring to extend their seasons by a weekend or two, but I think for the long term viability of late spring turns, it's best for all if only 1 ski area is doing it.  Even though there are areas I prefer skiiing over Killington that have pushed for late seasons historically such as Sugarbush, Jay, Wildcat, Sugarloaf; I concede that Killington makes the most sense for all due to it's location.  It's the closest mountain to the most people, so it has the best shot at being viable. 

As cool as it was that Sugarbush offered free skiing last Saturday, I have to imagine at least some of those skiers and riders would have been at Killington paying for lift tickets had Sugarbush been closed. I'd rather see all of the revenue focused at one area, so that it's profitable (or at the very least not too unprofitable) such that the incentive is there for Killington to keep doing this year after year.


----------



## andyzee (May 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I actually don't wish more mountains would take the approach K is taking this season.   I wouldn't mind seeing some areas scale back their midweek operations a bit earlier in the spring to extend their seasons by a weekend or two, but I think for the long term viability of late spring turns, it's best for all if only 1 ski area is doing it.  Even though there are areas I prefer skiiing over Killington that have pushed for late seasons historically such as Sugarbush, Jay, Wildcat, Sugarloaf; I concede that Killington makes the most sense for all due to it's location.  It's the closest mountain to the most people, so it has the best shot at being viable.
> 
> As cool as it was that Sugarbush offered free skiing last Saturday, I have to imagine at least some of those skiers and riders would have been at Killington paying for lift tickets had Sugarbush been closed. I'd rather see all of the revenue focused at one area, so that it's profitable (or at the very least not too unprofitable) such that the incentive is there for Killington to keep doing this year after year.



Yeah, what he said.


----------



## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> I actually don't wish more mountains would take the approach K is taking this season.


I am not saying that other ski areas should blow all that extra snow and try to push their season longer. I was just saying that more ski areas should stay open longer, _with the snow that they already have_. Closing the lifts while the skiing is still good is insulting to your season pass holders. Stowe is one of the worst offenders in this area. Killington closing their Bear and Needles lifts before the snow ran out also offended me in this otherwise wonderful year.

I think the end of season 30 minute lift lines at Sugarbush and Sunday River show there is more demand out there than people may think.


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## deadheadskier (May 8, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I am not saying that other ski areas should blow all that extra snow and try to push their season longer. I was just saying that more ski areas should stay open longer, _with the snow that they already have_. Closing the lifts while the skiing is still good is insulting to your season pass holders. Stowe is one of the worst offenders in this area. Killington closing their Bear and Needles lifts before the snow ran out also offended me in this otherwise wonderful year.
> 
> I think the end of season 30 minute lift lines at Sugarbush and Sunday River show there is more demand out there than people may think.



In K's defense, wasn't the Gondola scheduled to close last weekend in April, yet they ran it for one weekend longer.

The lift lines at Sugarbush and Sunday River on free ski days is a horrible barometer for measuring demand.  I skied Sugarbush the 14th of April.  All of the lifts were ski on.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 8, 2013)

If there was money to be made by staying open longer more ski areas would do it. It is a business after all. Obviously there's no money in it for the majority of areas. Offering free skiing & then saying look at all the people doesn't generate money. I read Sugarbush raised a whopping $827 for charity by opening Sat., probably a reason they decided not to open Sun. That's less than 10 day tickets at the normal mid season rates.


----------



## steamboat1 (May 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> In K's defense, wasn't the Gondola scheduled to close last weekend in April, yet they ran it for one weekend longer.



Actually they ran the gondola for two extra weekdays & weekends past the originally announced closing date (April 14). It closed April 28. They also opened Bear for one extra weekend past what was originally announced.

edit: they also opened Ramshead one extra weekend.


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## WWF-VT (May 8, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> The lift lines at Sugarbush and Sunday River on free ski days is a horrible barometer for measuring demand.  I skied Sugarbush the 14th of April.  All of the lifts were ski on.



+1 .  The combination of free and it being the last ski day for season pass holders gives a horrible measures of demand.  Add in the fact that there is limited terrain and a single lift running - a slow double at Sugarbush - gives you a wrong impression on how many people actually are ready and willing to ski at this time of year.


----------



## AdironRider (May 8, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I am not saying that other ski areas should blow all that extra snow and try to push their season longer. I was just saying that more ski areas should stay open longer, _with the snow that they already have_. Closing the lifts while the skiing is still good is insulting to your season pass holders. Stowe is one of the worst offenders in this area. Killington closing their Bear and Needles lifts before the snow ran out also offended me in this otherwise wonderful year.
> 
> I think the end of season 30 minute lift lines at Sugarbush and Sunday River show there is more demand out there than people may think.



Easy sailor. Guess what would be more insulting to passholders? Say running a business unsustainably in the red so they have to close permanently just so Gilligan's feelings wont be hurt.


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## ScottySkis (May 8, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Easy sailor. Guess what would be more insulting to passholders? Say running a business unsustainably in the red so they have to close permanently just so Gilligan's feelings wont be hurt.


+1 I agree if I'm a season pass holder I totally understand and want the hill to make money not louse it, I don't want to see more Bobcats.


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## andyzee (May 8, 2013)

Scotty said:


> +1 I agree if I'm a season pass holder I totally understand and want the hill to make money not louse it, I don't want to see more Bobcats.


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## ScottySkis (May 8, 2013)

andyzee said:


> View attachment 8885



Great picture, I meant Bobcat the NY Catskills hill that close to Platty and been closed for several years now.


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## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Easy sailor. Guess what would be more insulting to passholders? Say running a business unsustainably in the red so they have to close permanently just so Gilligan's feelings wont be hurt.


I did not realize that Stowe was so close to the edge financially. I would not want to be the cause of their collapse.


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## ScottySkis (May 8, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I did not realize that Stowe was so close to the edge financially. I would not want to be the cause of their collapse.



Can you buy a ski hill please and keep it open so we can all make turns in July on your hill.


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## laxski (May 8, 2013)

Thinking off skiing K Friday afternoon is there any walking required on superstar?


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## AdironRider (May 8, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Can you buy a ski hill please and keep it open so we can all make turns in July on your hill.



Truth. Seriously, all ski areas should cater to freeloader Gilligan!


----------



## Edd (May 8, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Truth. Seriously, all ski areas should cater to freeloader Gilligan!



:lol:


----------



## steamboat1 (May 8, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> I did not realize that Stowe was so close to the edge financially. I would not want to be the cause of their collapse.



Stowe is a corporate playground subsidized by the corporation. Did you really think they were making money up there.


----------



## Gilligan (May 8, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Truth. Seriously, all ski areas should cater to freeloader Gilligan!


If I buy a season pass, how does that make me a freeloader?

Is there anyone left on this board that you have not attacked?


----------



## skiadikt (May 8, 2013)

Scotty said:


> +1 I agree if I'm a season pass holder I totally understand and want the hill to make money not louse it, I don't want to see more Bobcats.



not sure how bobcat is relevant to this discussion. are u saying bobcat closed because it was run irresponsibly. don't remember them staying open til june ...

skied there in the 80's and enjoyed it but think they had one sno-gun and 2 t-bars some of which were broken. not exactly competitive. to be honest, i'd love to see someone buy them and reopen. if marketed correctly, think there is a niche for that type of thing as more skiers are interested in the natural sno experience (mrg & magic).


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## SIKSKIER (May 9, 2013)

Location:lost
Pretty much sums it up.


----------



## ScottySkis (May 9, 2013)

skiadikt said:


> not sure how bobcat is relevant to this discussion. are u saying bobcat closed because it was run irresponsibly. don't remember them staying open til june ...
> 
> skied there in the 80's and enjoyed it but think they had one sno-gun and 2 t-bars some of which were broken. not exactly competitive. to be honest, i'd love to see someone buy them and reopen. if marketed correctly, think there is a niche for that type of thing as more skiers are interested in the natural sno experience (mrg & magic).



No I just don't want to more hills closed, and what Gillian wants unfortunately to have hills open in June will not work any more for most.


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## andyzee (May 9, 2013)

The only hill to be open first and closed last should be the king (Killington) all other should fall in line and open after the king and close before the king. To do otherwise should lead to the ultimate punishment, demise.

Long Live The King!


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## Conrad (May 9, 2013)

If there was a "King of April" category, it would be Sugarloaf. But I guess King of extreme early and late skiing skiing goes to Killington.

*edit* by extreme I mean incredible, not so extreme that it is trivial.

Let me just say if Killington ends up shutting down only one or two weeks after Sugarloaf, I'm going to be all over this. :lol:


----------



## thetrailboss (May 9, 2013)

steamboat1 said:


> Stowe is a corporate playground subsidized by the corporation. Did you really think they were making money up there.



Right. Stowe's parent, the former AIG, always made it clear that the resort had to at least break even or make a certain profit. It is what it is. In recent years Stowe has been open well into April, but not longer than that. Their clientele does not ski that late.

And folks can grumble, but Stowe is probably one of the best run ski areas in the east.  Their management does a good job and they have good equipment and infrastructure to do it with.


----------



## thetrailboss (May 9, 2013)

Now to the thread, if I recall correctly, a very vocal member was criticizing other areas for opening only weekends in the fall and saying that should not count.  Now should that same logic apply here?  I mean Killington IS only open weekends now....


----------



## steamboat1 (May 9, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Right. Stowe's parent, the former AIG, always made it clear that the resort had to at least break even or make a certain profit. It is what it is. In recent years Stowe has been open well into April, but not longer than that. Their clientele does not ski that late.
> 
> And folks can grumble, but Stowe is probably one of the best run ski areas in the east.  Their management does a good job and they have good equipment and infrastructure to do it with.


AIG & now it's subsidiary has invested nearly 6X's the amount of money in Stowe as POWDR paid for K 5 years ago in the same time period. And they already owned the place. Don't get me wrong I love Stowe & what they're doing with the area but being profitable is not a priority.


----------



## Rambo (May 9, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Now to the thread, if I recall correctly, a very vocal member was criticizing other areas for opening only weekends in the fall and saying that should not count.  Now should that same logic apply here?  I mean Killington IS only open weekends now....



Killington is open FRIDAYS and weekends... SO IT COUNTS!


----------



## MadPatSki (May 9, 2013)

Rambo said:


> Killington is open FRIDAYS and weekends... SO IT COUNTS!



MSS is spinning lifts today, tomorrow and this weekend....but only open to general public on weekends. 
Should spinning lifts without allowing the general admission count or not? Just asking?
:blink:


----------



## deadheadskier (May 9, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Right. Stowe's parent, the former AIG, always made it clear that the resort had to at least break even or make a certain profit. It is what it is. In recent years Stowe has been open well into April, but not longer than that. Their clientele does not ski that late.
> 
> And folks can grumble, but Stowe is probably one of the best run ski areas in the east.  Their management does a good job and they have good equipment and infrastructure to do it with.





steamboat1 said:


> AIG & now it's subsidiary has invested nearly 6X's the amount of money in Stowe as POWDR paid for K 5 years ago in the same time period. And they already owned the place. Don't get me wrong I love Stowe & what they're doing with the area but being profitable is not a priority.



You are both correct in some ways. 

During the late 90s Stowe was losing money.  AIG charged Hanke Lundy with having the mountain start making money.  Hank contended that the only way to do that is to become competitive in the market by having advanced snowmaking and grooming as well as substantial slopeside lodging; all things the mountain lacked at the time.  

The town was very much against the idea of Spruce Village because they feared that it would draw business away from the town and the Mountain Company would be the only one who benefited.  Most local business owners were prepared to put up a fight against it.  Hanke threatened that the other option to balance their books would be a major reduction in operating expenses - a shorter season, less snowmaking and grooming, reduced lift operations - very much a "no frills" ski area.  The words Mad River Glen were used in describing the kind of ski experience people could expect.  To me those threats were hollow and full of hyperbole, but the future of the mountain was sold as Stowe either becoming Deer Valley East or Mad River Glen North.  Local opposition feared those threats and the project eventually moved forward.

I have no idea if the mountain turns much of an operating profit today.  I'm not as invested.  I'm sure I could find out through old friends.  I do know the mountain has made back it's development investment in real estate sales by a healthy margin.  I've got some friends that went from being bartenders in town to being millionaires in a few short years through selling the product.  I've got some other friends in town who wish the Spruce Village never happened.  It really hasn't been that great of a thing for the town outside of the property tax windfall.  There are actually fewer restaurant seats and hotel beds in town today than there was 15 years ago when you subtract out what's been built up at the mountain.  Many of the businesses that remain and survived "the contraction" do not do the same revenue they did 15 years ago.  The increased skier visits really has only helped migrate business up the road as once feared.  

If I had to guess, I'd bet the mountain operates pretty much the same as years ago only with additional zeros on the balance sheet.  I'm sure there are years just like every ski area where they don't make money and AIG picks up the tab.


----------



## Gilligan (May 9, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Now to the thread, if I recall correctly, a very vocal member was criticizing other areas for opening only weekends in the fall and saying that should not count.  Now should that same logic apply here?  I mean Killington IS only open weekends now....


From October:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/114201-Attn-Mister-Moose?p=729082&viewfull=1#post729082



Smellytele said:


> If a mountain opens for the weekend then closes was it really ever opened at all?:blink:





Gilligan said:


> Yes, and those one or two days count toward the  total season length. It is the days in between, when the mountain is  closed, that do not count toward the season length.





skiersleft said:


> Exactly. It should be obvious by now, but some just don't want to get it.



So, if Killington opens for 3 days this weekend, that would add 3 days to their total season length, not 7, not 0.


----------



## andyzee (May 9, 2013)

*Long live the king!*


----------



## Cannonball (May 9, 2013)

Nick said:


> Yeah I agree it's lifts running. People are still earning turns on patches of snow at Jay and others.



Cannon Tram reopens May 24!  And I still see patches of snow on the cam (some walking required). Long live the King!


----------



## ScottySkis (May 9, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> From October:
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/114201-Attn-Mister-Moose?p=729082&viewfull=1#post729082
> 
> 
> ...



Yes it does.


----------



## Gilligan (May 9, 2013)

laxski said:


> Thinking off skiing K Friday afternoon is there any walking required on superstar?



Since K is closed until Friday morning, I do not know. But, I would be very surprised if any walking is required on Superstar this weekend. The webcam at the base of Superstar shows a lot of snow left on the trail. The snowcats will probably fill in any problem areas tonight.

http://www.killington.com/winter/multimedia/webcam/superstar.html


----------



## thetrailboss (May 9, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> So, if Killington opens for 3 days this weekend, that would add 3 days to their total season length, not 7, not 0.



I agree with that.


----------



## skiersleft (May 9, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> From October:
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/114201-Attn-Mister-Moose?p=729082&viewfull=1#post729082
> 
> 
> ...



I assume DHS was talking about me as the vocal member. And what he originally suggested was wrong, as Gilligan just demonstrated. I never said it doesn't count. I said that in terms of longest season, opening weekends only counts less than opening 7 days, so that we should go by total DAYS open rather than by opening and closing day. And I stand by that with regards to K's weekend schedule.


----------



## andyzee (May 9, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> Since K is closed until Friday morning, I do not know. But, I would be very surprised if any walking is required on Superstar this weekend. The webcam at the base of Superstar shows a lot of snow left on the trail. The snowcats will probably fill in any problem areas tonight.
> 
> http://www.killington.com/winter/multimedia/webcam/superstar.html



Nope, they're determined to stay open to June, though have to say it'll be tough. Conditions report:

We're giving our groomers some time off and letting things go au naturale for once (that's a fancy way to say "BUMPS.") Look for top to bottom turns on Superstar all weekend long, with a little cooperation from our friend Mother Nature. 

They don't want to push anything around unless they absolutely have to. Smart move. Skilark is expendable, Superstar is the signature spring trail to be preserved as long as possible. They've been open with far less coverage on it.


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## Gilligan (May 9, 2013)

andyzee said:


> Nope, they're determined to stay open to June, though have to say it'll be tough. Conditions report:
> 
> We're giving our groomers some time off and letting things go au naturale for once (that's a fancy way to say "BUMPS.") Look for top to bottom turns on Superstar all weekend long, with a little cooperation from our friend Mother Nature.
> 
> They don't want to push anything around unless they absolutely have to. Smart move.


The trails report lists grooming on Upper Skylark, and no where else. Since that is normally a thinner area, I was basing my quess on that.
http://www.killington.com/winter/mountain/conditions/trails


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## andyzee (May 9, 2013)

Gilligan said:


> The trails report lists grooming on Upper Skylark, and no where else. Since that is normally a thinner area, I was basing my quess on that.
> http://www.killington.com/winter/mountain/conditions/trails



OK, thought you meant they would fill in holes on Superstar


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## Gilligan (May 9, 2013)

andyzee said:


> OK, thought you meant they would fill in holes on Superstar


I do not know what it looks like up there after this past week, but my guess is that they would clean things up if they found any severe issues on any open trails (severe as in something that would require walking if not repaired). Just guessing though, KillingtonZone will have the answers tomorrow.


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## andyzee (May 10, 2013)

Seeing a constant stream of skiers come down Superstar throughout the day. Not a huge crowd, then again it is Friday, but good to see the support.


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## SIKSKIER (May 10, 2013)

Walking required on Lower Skyelark per the snow report.

Be aware that spring conditions exist, and there will be some walking required on Lower Skyelark.


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## 180 (May 10, 2013)

They have plenty to push around.  Can't wait to get back.


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## bigbob (May 10, 2013)

Skied K today, still plenty of snow. A portion of upper Skylark was getting thin just before you enter Superstar, but I am sure the can farm snow to beef it up. Big bumps on the lower headwall, the narrows looks worse on the web cam than it skied. Forecast was much worse than it turned out. No rain, I left about 1 PM. Get your butts of the computer and ski before it is gone!


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## dmw (May 10, 2013)

Anyone have any thoughts on tomorrow's forecast? Looks like bad rain on what I've looked at; was thinking of going up but steady rain and possible T-storms doesn't seem promising.


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