# Ikon Pass



## Zermatt (Aug 27, 2018)

Ikon now includes Solitude and Brighton with three more days of "announcements" to come.

For the Ikon Base Pass Solitude is unlimited days with blackout dates and Brighton is 5 days with blackouts.

Hoping they announce more eastern resorts...Pico would really make sense.


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## speden (Aug 27, 2018)

The pass wars seem to be heating up. Ikon is adding more resorts and I've been seeing a lot of advertisements on TV for the EPIC pass.

There's a graphic on the Ikon Pass instagram account that suggests they will be adding more resorts to the Ikon pass this week. I'm hoping for some more northeast hills too. Come on Wachusett!

On liftblog.com they speculate the other additions will be from the mountains on the Mountain Collective or the ex-MAX Pass resorts, so Wawa is a possible addition, but probably a long shot.


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## benski (Aug 27, 2018)

I am expecting Wyndham to Jump on Ikon or Epic.


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## speden (Aug 28, 2018)

Now they added Taos: https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2018/08/28/taos-ski-valley-announcement

Looks like a data leak is showing that they may add the remaining four Boyne resorts tomorrow.

That would leave one more mystery place to be announced on Thursday. Judging from the size of the box in the reveal image, it would be a fairly big resort.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 28, 2018)

That Ikon pass is really locking up the Wasatch, ex-Vail.

 Unlimited Solitude + 5 days each at Brighton, Alta/Snowbird, and even Deer Valley, for $699 sounds pretty tough to beat.  I'm beginning to wonder if Vail has somewhat dropped-the-ball on their local strategies in lieu of such focus on bringing people from afar to Vail resorts.

Solitude / Deer Valley - Altera 
Park City / Canyons - Vail 
Brighton - Boyne 
Alta - private
Snowbird - private (1 majority owner)


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## Zermatt (Aug 28, 2018)

speden said:


> Now they added Taos: https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2018/08/28/taos-ski-valley-announcement
> 
> Looks like a data leak is showing that they may add the remaining four Boyne resorts tomorrow.
> 
> That would leave one more mystery place to be announced on Thursday. Judging from the size of the box in the reveal image, it would be a fairly big resort.



Snowbasin is big and a MC resort. 

Still at a loss why Pico isn't interchangeable with Killington. Pico will be absolutely empty this year with the loss of MAX visitors.


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## TheArchitect (Aug 28, 2018)

I'm glad to see Alterra continuing to add and enhance the Ikon pass but I admit I'm still disappointed in their eastern offerings.  Of the Ikon east resorts I'm only a fan of Sugarbush.  I've never been to Sugarloaf but it's too far to be anything but a weekend trip for me.  Loon's too crowded and Sunday River is too groomed.

I'm booked for Jackson Hole in February so I'm going to pick up the base pass and use it for Sugarbush here in the east.  Maybe I'll go to Killington for the first time in 30 years.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 28, 2018)

I am not surprised that Solitude is unlimited.  It is Alterra's other resort in Utah (the other one being Deer Valley).  They had no Alterra resort in Utah that was an unlimited option on the Ikon Pass and having Solitude now gives them that market.  Deer Valley will never be an unlimited option on the Ikon pass.  Like Aspen, it is the premium brand that deserves a premium price.


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## Jully (Aug 28, 2018)

TheArchitect said:


> I'm glad to see Alterra continuing to add and enhance the Ikon pass but I admit I'm still disappointed in their eastern offerings.  Of the Ikon east resorts I'm only a fan of Sugarbush.  I've never been to Sugarloaf but it's too far to be anything but a weekend trip for me.  Loon's too crowded and Sunday River is too groomed.
> 
> I'm booked for Jackson Hole in February so I'm going to pick up the base pass and use it for Sugarbush here in the east.  Maybe I'll go to Killington for the first time in 30 years.



I was really hoping the 4 resorts added as a group were going to be the NY mountains (I mostly just want Whiteface/Gore). I'd absolutely love for the last big resort to be added be an eastern resort, but I just don't see Alterra making such a big deal out of an eastern addition. Only big places that I could possibly imagine being added back east are Jay, Smuggs, or Cannon. All three of those are extremely unlikely too.


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## TheArchitect (Aug 28, 2018)

Jully said:


> I was really hoping the 4 resorts added as a group were going to be the NY mountains (I mostly just want Whiteface/Gore). I'd absolutely love for the last big resort to be added be an eastern resort, but I just don't see Alterra making such a big deal out of an eastern addition. Only big places that I could possibly imagine being added back east are Jay, Smuggs, or Cannon. All three of those are extremely unlikely too.



Well, I'm sure you've seen me over on Pugski hoping and praying they add Jay, even if it isn't until next year.  Jay seems to check most of the Alterra boxes.  It's a destination resort, it's "Ikonic", it will get the Montreal crowd and the weekend Boston crowd.

It won't happen but can you imagine if Alterra snuck in there and added/bought Smuggs?!  You KNOW Vail would love to have Smuggs under their control and if Alterra took it out from under them.... :smile:


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## Jully (Aug 28, 2018)

TheArchitect said:


> Well, I'm sure you've seen me over on Pugski hoping and praying they add Jay, even if it isn't until next year.  Jay seems to check most of the Alterra boxes.  It's a destination resort, it's "Ikonic", it will get the Montreal crowd and the weekend Boston crowd.
> 
> It won't happen but can you imagine if Alterra snuck in there and added/bought Smuggs?!  You KNOW Vail would love to have Smuggs under their control and if Alterra took it out from under them.... :smile:



Jay or Smuggs would be an awesome buy for my own selfish east coast reasons and as far as eastern resorts go, I agree it checks all the Alterra boxes - unique, decently accessible/valuable. I totally agree. It'd be extra great given Vail's almost certain interest in Smuggs most definitely.


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## machski (Aug 28, 2018)

I cannot see a Jay add while it is under receivership.  Too much chance the next owner could back out of Ikon (and I don't think they want one year and done areas on the pass).

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## thetrailboss (Aug 28, 2018)

machski said:


> I cannot see a Jay add while it is under receivership.  Too much chance the next owner could back out of Ikon (and I don't think they want one year and done areas on the pass).
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Maybe I am wrong, but I think that the OP was saying that Alterra would BUY Jay Peak.


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## abc (Aug 28, 2018)

I would second the guess the next announcement could be Snowbasin, as already pointed out. And possibly Sun Valley. 

Only because they're both already on MCP. 

Would also work out nicely for me from a selfish point of view. I'll be flying into SLC and doing a circuit of Big Sky and Jackson Hole. Having Snowbasin would provide a convenient stopover point.


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## bushpilot (Aug 28, 2018)

I'm hoping for Mt. Bachelor! It was on the Max pass this year and they release their season pass prices tomorrow. This could be a nice surprise.


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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 28, 2018)

smuggs is gonna be vail's one day. its gotta be. they will interconnect and revamp smuggs' lifts and make the premier eastern mega resort separated by the best lift accessed backcountry in vermont. 

i am hopeful that ikon adds jay. even in receivership. seems to be a nice way for them to guarantee some revenue and new visitors, even if its just for one year. even better if alterra is the ultimate buyer. just no vail please. 

pretty happy about solitude. right now my western agenda is 6-7 days winter park in december, 3 days copper in january, 9-10 days in uth in february, and silverton/monarch 4 days in late march/early april


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## TheArchitect (Aug 28, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> Maybe I am wrong, but I think that the OP was saying that Alterra would BUY Jay Peak.



Yeah, I was thinking buy if possible.  From my uninformed POV it seems to make a lot of sense for Alterra instead of Vail.  I'd be surprised if Jay gets sold to anyone other than those two; the way they're buying up mountains.

As for Smuggs, Kusty is right that Vail is the likely buyer but it would be funny if Alterra swooped in and stole it from them.


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## Scruffy (Aug 28, 2018)

The Ikon is a bargain. I jumped on the full pass early on. Just with 7 days at Killington, 7 days at Sugarbush, and 7 days between Sunday River and Sugar Loaf it pays for itself. Add unlimited at Stratton ( not that I'm into flatton, but hey, no pass fees are good, maybe I'll give them another try ). Then add the three out west trips I planned at Ikon mountains ( like JHole, Steamboat, and Lake Louise), I'm in loving it. Throw in my peak pass and I'm covered to ski every day, east and west, if I wanted to. 

Not to mention Ikon just added Taos   I think I need more days and energy to reap all the benefits.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 28, 2018)

It's going to be Vail.

And I'm going to cry.


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## benski (Aug 28, 2018)

I predict eventually Jay will end up on Ikon and Bretton Woods on the Epic pass.


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## raisingarizona (Aug 28, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> smuggs is gonna be vail's one day. its gotta be. they will interconnect and revamp smuggs' lifts and make the premier eastern mega resort separated by the best lift accessed backcountry in vermont.
> 
> i am hopeful that ikon adds jay. even in receivership. seems to be a nice way for them to guarantee some revenue and new visitors, even if its just for one year. even better if alterra is the ultimate buyer. just no vail please.
> 
> pretty happy about solitude. right now my western agenda is 6-7 days winter park in december, 3 days copper in january, 9-10 days in uth in february, and silverton/monarch 4 days in late march/early april



I want to see that. It’s gonna be the biggest skiing in the east then, nothing can top that combination of terrain, classic New England ski town, snowfall and side country access.


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## cdskier (Aug 29, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> I want to see that. It’s gonna be the biggest skiing in the east then, nothing can top that combination of terrain, classic New England ski town, snowfall and side country access.



Good luck ever getting approval to physically interconnect the resorts. I just don't see that part happening.


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## robocop (Aug 29, 2018)

Great news for east coast skiers!! Access to Loon, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf just tripled! Ikon announced that you can now ski each resort 5(base pass)/7(full pass) days, rather than a combined total as it was before. Ikon also added Snowqualamie, Cypress, and the Boyne resorts in Michigan.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Good luck ever getting approval to physically interconnect the resorts. I just don't see that part happening.


+1

Outside of a return to a basic trail connection like once was, I just don't see it happening.  

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Edd (Aug 29, 2018)

robocop said:


> Great news for east coast skiers!! Access to Loon, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf just tripled! Ikon announced that you can now ski each resort 5(base pass)/7(full pass) days, rather than a combined total as it was before.



That was the biggest reason I passed on it. Kudos to them for addressing a clear flaw in the eastern offerings but I’ve missed out on the early price. Still, it’s a good deal if you’re certain to head west.


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## TheArchitect (Aug 29, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> +1
> 
> Outside of a return to a basic trail connection like once was, I just don't see it happening.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



The only issue is the environmental impact, I assume?  I don't know if there are other issues.  I've never followed what it typically takes to get this kind of thing approved.


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## abc (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Good luck ever getting approval to physically interconnect the resorts. I just don't see that part happening.


But Stowe and Smug is already "physically" connected. It's only logistic that prevents people from skiing back and forth (reciprocal lift ticket agreement).

My guess is Smugg wouldn't sell. Or it would have already happened. 

So yes, I agree it will happen one day.  



Edd said:


> That was the biggest reason I passed on it. Kudos to them for addressing a clear flaw in the eastern offerings but I’ve missed out on the early price. Still, it’s a good deal if you’re certain to head west.


Those added days could tip the balance for some who only ski the east.


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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 29, 2018)

robocop said:


> Great news for east coast skiers!! Access to Loon, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf just tripled! Ikon announced that you can now ski each resort 5(base pass)/7(full pass) days, rather than a combined total as it was before. Ikon also added Snowqualamie, Cypress, and the Boyne resorts in Michigan.



makes total sense and is awesome. but where do you see thsi already announced?


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## crystalmountainskier (Aug 29, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> makes total sense and is awesome. but where do you see thsi already announced?


https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2018/08/29/regional-access-and-boyne-announcement


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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 29, 2018)

beautiful. so glad crystal is back and the new england access basically doubled.


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## speden (Aug 29, 2018)

That's excellent news that they tripled the days at Loon, SR, and Sugarloaf. They must have realized their east coast offering was a little thin after Epic added unlimited days at Okemo and Sunapee. Looks like Boyne is going to be a strong partner for Alterra. But I hope this doesn't mean Alterra is done adding northeast resorts for this season.


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## cdskier (Aug 29, 2018)

TheArchitect said:


> The only issue is the environmental impact, I assume?  I don't know if there are other issues.  I've never followed what it typically takes to get this kind of thing approved.



I suppose you could say environment impact is the "only issue", however it is a monumental issue considering it would involve crossing or running along the Long Trail between the two resorts on state forest land.



abc said:


> But Stowe and Smug is already "physically" connected. It's only logistic that prevents people from skiing back and forth (reciprocal lift ticket agreement).
> 
> My guess is Smugg wouldn't sell. Or it would have already happened.
> 
> So yes, I agree it will happen one day.



When people say Vail buying Smuggs would allow Stowe/Smuggs to become a "mega resort", a physical connection via hiking is not what they are typically referring to. If people want to consider hiking access between the two as being "physically connected", then sure, that part could easily happen one day when Smuggs decides to sell. What people like myself and DHS mean when we say it will never happen is that we mean an actual lift between the two would never happen. Without a lift between the two, they will never be considered a "mega resort" by most people as it is logistically very challenging to get from one to the other. Hiking access is something only a small percentage of people would be interested in. Sure many people on here wouldn't mind that, but to most skiers unless there's an actual lift, they wouldn't consider a Stowe/Smuggs combo as one resort even if they had the same ownership.


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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 29, 2018)

ugh i misread cypress as crystal


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> *Good luck ever getting approval to physically interconnect the resorts.* I just don't see that part happening.



Shouldn't be too hard IMO.  The same party that the environmentalists unilaterally support (this is key) is the same party that will receive the $$$ necessary to make it happen.  Vermont is politically one of the top-five most corrupt states in America.  You're either overthinking this or putting too much faith in the "virtue" of politicians.



cdskier said:


> * it is logistically very challenging to get from one to the other.*



It is logistically very simple to get from one to the other.   I've done it both on skis & via foot probably a combined few hundred times.  How many times have you done it?


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## Edd (Aug 29, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ugh i misread cypress as crystal



Yup, that’s a bit different [emoji16]


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## FBGM (Aug 29, 2018)

Best deal out there. 

Blow me Vail. Blow me Peaks


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## speden (Aug 29, 2018)

If they would just add 5 night skiing days at the Wachusett ice capades I'd be all set. Come on Alterra, throw Boston skiers a bone.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 29, 2018)

So it does seem like Alterra is trying to out-Vail, Vail.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2018...222098721&mc_cid=bf108b2310&mc_eid=7dda217ebc


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## cdskier (Aug 29, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Shouldn't be too hard IMO.  The same party that the environmentalists unilaterally support (this is key) is the same party that will receive the $$$ necessary to make it happen.  Vermont is politically one of the top-five most corrupt states in America.  You're either overthinking this or putting too much faith in the "virtue" of politicians.



You're vastly under-estimating the environmental challenges and restrictions. This isn't about politics. In particular, that specific area between Spruce Peak and Smuggs is already designated as a "Highly Sensitive Area" in the Mt Mansfield State Forest Long Range Management plan. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than of any significant development happening along that route.



> It is logistically very simple to get from one to the other.   I've done it both on skis & via foot probably a combined few hundred times.  How many times have you done it?



I was referring to non-hiking methods which should have been quite clear from my entire comment. My very next sentence in fact said hiking is a method that would not appeal to most people in order for it to be considered a single "mega" resort.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> *I was referring to non-hiking methods which should have been quite clear* from my entire comment. My very next sentence in fact said hiking is a method that would not appeal to most people in order for it to be considered a single "mega" resort.



Well I still dont know what you mean, because skiing it is even easier than hiking it.  

From Stowe to Smuggs it's downhill and if you keep your speed you can make it basically gliding the entire way.  From Smuggs to Stowe it requires some light xc skiing over a small section of the pond & then a few hundred feet of uphill skating, but it's not a big deal at all for anyone Intermediate or higher.  I dont see why you think this is so "very challenging" of an ordeal.  Have you ever done it?


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## cdskier (Aug 29, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Well I still dont know what you mean, because skiing it is even easier than hiking it.
> 
> From Stowe to Smuggs it's downhill and if you keep your speed you can make it basically gliding the entire way.  From Smuggs to Stowe it requires some light xc skiing over a small section of the pond & then a few hundred feet of uphill skating, but it's not a big deal at all for anyone Intermediate or higher.  I dont see why you think this is so "very challenging" of an ordeal.  Have you ever done it?



Maybe I should have been more clear that when I said "hiking" I was referring to any form of travel using your legs/feet (including skiing) as compared to using some form of mechanical travel (a lift, shuttle, etc). How "easy" the hike/ski itself is does not matter. Even a 5 minute hike across flat terrain will turn off many (or most) people. You're not looking at this from an "average" skier perspective. You will never be able to market Stowe/Smuggs as a single mega resort to the general public if you do not have a lift. And that simply is extremely unlikely to happen at this point.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> You're not looking at this from an "average" skier perspective. *You will never be able to market Stowe/Smuggs as a single mega resort to the general public if you do not have a lift.*



I think you could.

And even if you cant "physically" connect them, why not a fleet of say......6....snowcats?  Each holds 12 people, run 3 in each direction.  Market it as a unique experience.  Probably about 20 minutes each way, maybe a touch less.  I really dont see this as insurmountable.  You revive & advertise Snuffy's Trail for intermediates & experts, you run a few snowcats for beginners and lazy people.


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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2018)

Gondola as in the whistler/blackcomb variety which no towers for about 2 miles.


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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I think you could.
> 
> And even if you cant "physically" connect them, why not a fleet of say......6....snowcats?  Each holds 12 people, run 3 in each direction.  Market it as a unique experience.  Probably about 20 minutes each way, maybe a touch less.  I really dont see this as insurmountable.  You revive & advertise Snuffy's Trail for intermediates & experts, you run a few snowcats for beginners and lazy people.



Snow cats running would be even have even more environmental issues


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## cdskier (Aug 29, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> I think you could.
> 
> And even if you cant "physically" connect them, why not a fleet of say......6....snowcats?  Each holds 12 people, run 3 in each direction.  Market it as a unique experience.  Probably about 20 minutes each way, maybe a touch less.  I really dont see this as insurmountable.  You revive & advertise Snuffy's Trail for intermediates & experts, you run a few snowcats for beginners and lazy people.



Here's why not a fleet of snowcats:



> Human activity in this unit is limited to pedestrian uses, with two
> exceptions:  Vermont Route 108 brings vehicles through Smugglers
> Notch and will remain in use; and the alpine ski trails are
> maintained during the ski season with groomers. The groomers are
> not allowed on Sterling Pond.


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## TheArchitect (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> I suppose you could say environment impact is the "only issue", however it is a monumental issue considering it would involve crossing or running along the Long Trail between the two resorts on state forest land.



I wasn't trying to minimize the difficulty of it by saying "only".  I was just trying to single it out.


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## ThinkSnow (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Here's why not a fleet of snowcats:


  Thing is Rt. 108 is closed in winter for vehicular traffic.  Why not just bore a tunnel (like they have at Snowbird going to Mineral basin) to connect the two? (sarcasm? yes)


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## abc (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Even a 5 minute hike across flat terrain will turn off many (or most) people. You're not looking at this from an "average" skier perspective. You will never be able to market Stowe/Smuggs as a single mega resort to the general public if you do not have a lift. And that simply is extremely unlikely to happen at this point.


Hmmm... I'm not sure I buy that. Plenty of other mountains have long flat connector trails to access some part of their terrain. 

Are you saying the Mentazuma Bowl is not "physically" connected to A-basin? The "connection" requires a rather energetic skate which many can't manage. Boarders, have no choice but to take off their board and walk. Yet, you see plenty of INTERMEDIATE skiers and boarders in Zumi bowl. 

In the northeast, Mountain Creek and Vernon Valley comes to mind, and indeed many don't go over. But plenty do go over too. The new terrain in Big Sky also entails long flat trails to access. But that's what keeps those terrain nice and quiet, a setup many like. 

Heck, you have to take off your ski to get from Stowe to Spruce even WITH the gondola! Why do you think the Smug link is so much worse than Spruce? 

If I were Vail and Smug is for sale, I'd definitely buy it and combine them. I bet you a good 30% of visitor WILL go over just to check it out. And very likely a good many will stay and ski in Smug till the end of day.


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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2018)

A little further than at A-basin:


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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2018)




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## slatham (Aug 29, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> View attachment 23990



And A-Basin has a connector surface lift now, so there you go......


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> *Here's why not a fleet of snowcats*:
> 
> Human activity in this unit is limited to pedestrian uses, with two
> *exceptions: Vermont Route 108 brings vehicles through Smugglers
> ...



Except the very route you posted as an _"exception"_ is the very route the snowcats would be taking.

I'm thinking you're not very familiar with Smuggler's Notch & Stowe.


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## Smellytele (Aug 29, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Except the very route you posted as an _"exception"_ is the very route the snowcats would be taking.
> 
> I'm thinking you're not very familiar with Smuggler's Notch & Stowe.



I was thinking snow cats over the top aka sterling pond. Also Snow cats through the notch may interrupt the millions of snowmobiles that go through there.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 29, 2018)

BG are you suggesting having the snowcat transport go through the 108 Notch?  That's about 10 miles

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## cdskier (Aug 29, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Except the very route you posted as an _"exception"_ is the very route the snowcats would be taking.
> 
> I'm thinking you're not very familiar with Smuggler's Notch & Stowe.



So now you're interpreting "maintained with groomers" to mean you can transport people back and forth? A fleet of snowcats running back and forth all day on the old Snuffy's trail is not in line with the use restrictions for that area.

Or if you meant run the snowcats on 108 through the notch itself, then that would need to be defined as an allowable use within the Smugglers Notch Scenic Highway Corridor Plan. Couldn't find a copy of that online, but something tells me it isn't a defined allowable use.


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## WJenness (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Or if you meant run the snowcats on 108 through the notch itself, then that would need to be defined as an allowable use within the Smugglers Notch Scenic Highway Corridor Plan. Couldn't find a copy of that online, but something tells me it isn't a defined allowable use.



Not to mention: how long (timewise) is a 10 mile cat ride?

Seems... excessive.


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## benski (Aug 29, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Gondola as in the whistler/blackcomb variety which no towers for about 2 miles.



It’s called a 3S gondola. All gondolas of that type have long spans like a tram.


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## FBGM (Aug 29, 2018)

Anyone who buys an epic pass or especially Peaks pass rides the short bus. Ikon best value and best ski. Hands down.


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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 29, 2018)

peaks pass makes no damn sense. 

epic has its arguments. one of my best ski buddies loves stowe, the beer scene around stowe, and wants to eventually buy a vacation home in stowe. for him, the inclusion of unlimited stowe was enough. for me, it's not. i dont want to put on that many miles or time in the car. i also ski 40-50 days a season and he skis 20-30. for him, stowe + breck/beaver/vail/whistler is enough. i disagree. but different strokes.


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## deadheadskier (Aug 29, 2018)

Opinions vary, but for me as primarily a weekend skier, I'll take Cannon or Wildcat on the weekends over pretty much anywhere in New England.  I slightly prefer Wildcat and that pass comes with Crotched and Attitash to mix it up.  Not interested in dealing with the weekend crowds at the areas offered with Ikon or Epic.

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## machski (Aug 29, 2018)

benski said:


> It’s called a 3S gondola. All gondolas of that type have long spans like a tram.


No towers is not the problem.  Any lift over the Long Trail will have opposition, guaranteed.  Look at Killington, granted that section was also the AT, but they had to pay for and relocate the trail for the Pico Interconnect (the realigned trail is done, the interconnect not so much).

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## chuckstah (Aug 29, 2018)

I'm thinking the Ikon may work for me next season.  As far as those who say the Peak pass sucks, it depends where you live.  I picked up a midweek for about $270 using discounted gift cards.  Living near Crotched, less than 2 hours to Snow, and a bit over 2 to Cat/Attitash got me about 50 days last season.  Expect the same this year.  About 5 bucks a day, and I can't remember many ski days not worth that, ever.  Snow for early turns, Cat for pow days and spring, Crotched for before or after work turns, and blackout periods. I may even hit Huntah for a couple days?   Mix in a Fox card and a few other days, and K spring pass and it works for me.


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## TheArchitect (Aug 29, 2018)

I just bought the Base pass.  I decided to extend my trip to Jackson Hole to make it a trip to Jackson Hole and then drive up to Big Sky.  The base pass pays for the lifts on that trip and everything else back east will be free.  I figure I'll use all 5 days at SB and then see how many days I can get in at Killington, Sunday River and Loon.  I doubt I'll make it up to Sugarloaf.


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## raisingarizona (Aug 29, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Maybe I should have been more clear that when I said "hiking" I was referring to any form of travel using your legs/feet (including skiing) as compared to using some form of mechanical travel (a lift, shuttle, etc). How "easy" the hike/ski itself is does not matter. Even a 5 minute hike across flat terrain will turn off many (or most) people. You're not looking at this from an "average" skier perspective. You will never be able to market Stowe/Smuggs as a single mega resort to the general public if you do not have a lift. And that simply is extremely unlikely to happen at this point.



I can only imagine what a European skier would be thinking if they read this.


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## raisingarizona (Aug 29, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Snow cats running would be even have even more environmental issues



I don’t think there’s any environmental issues if there’s substantial snow covering the ground.


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## Edd (Aug 29, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> peaks pass makes no damn sense.



Depends on your situation. I paid $329 for a Traveler living near the NH sea coast. Cat, Attitash, Crotched, and Mt Snow are all within a 3 hr drive so.....


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## sull1102 (Aug 30, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> peaks pass makes no damn sense.



Live well under an hour from Mount Snow and less than two from Hunter just to mix it up. At $400 for over 25 days easily, I'll take that all day.

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## Smellytele (Aug 30, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> peaks pass makes no damn sense.
> .



I ski 40 to 55 times a year and rarely go west. 30 days in the east is not reasonable for me also like the option to night ski at Crotched which is 20 minutes from me. driving 4 hours to hit Sugarloaf is really not what i want to do either. Also hate Stratton.


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## Smellytele (Aug 30, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> I don’t think there’s any environmental issues if there’s substantial snow covering the ground.



exhaust and noise.


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## robocop (Aug 30, 2018)

And last but not least, Ikon announces they are adding the four resorts in Niseko United collective, Japan.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 30, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> *BG are you suggesting having the snowcat transport go through the 108 Notch? * That's about 10 miles



Correct; but it's nowhere near 10 miles, probably more like 3 or 4 miles. 

 I'd run the cats from Spruce parking lot to Sterling parking lot, and doing 12mph in a cat and figuring a 4 mile trip at worst equals the 20 minutes I came up with.  Not bad at all, and scenic as hell.

EDIT:  I should add, I hope this never happens, but it's what I'd do were I Vail.


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## speden (Aug 30, 2018)

robocop said:


> And last but not least, Ikon announces they are adding the four resorts in Niseko United collective, Japan.



"Alfred, fuel up the jet..."

"Right away Master Bruce"


----------



## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Correct; but it's nowhere near 10 miles, probably more like 3 or 4 miles.
> 
> I'd run the cats from Spruce parking lot to Sterling parking lot, and doing 12mph in a cat and figuring a 4 mile trip at worst equals the 20 minutes I came up with.  Not bad at all, and scenic as hell.
> 
> EDIT:  I should add, I hope this never happens, but it's what I'd do were I Vail.


My bad. I must have entered wrong start and end points in Google maps.  And I agree, I'd never want to see it.

I wouldn't want to see them combined period.  Same as I don't want to see the K/Pico connect.  I prefer the unique experience the areas offer separately.

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## abc (Aug 30, 2018)

speden said:


> "Alfred, fuel up the jet..."
> 
> "Right away Master Bruce"


Worth every penny!


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## TheArchitect (Aug 30, 2018)

deadheadskier said:


> My bad. I must have entered wrong start and end points in Google maps.  And I agree, I'd never want to see it.
> 
> I wouldn't want to see them combined period.  Same as I don't want to see the K/Pico connect.  I prefer the unique experience the areas offer separately.
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app



I'd only want to see it because I'm sure Vail would upgrade the lifts at Smuggs.  I hate the lifts there and won't go back.  I understand the logic of controlling on-trail traffic with slow lifts but it's painful at Smuggs.  I like skiing, not riding lifts.

Now if Smuggs stayed independent and upgraded the lifts...


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## raisingarizona (Aug 30, 2018)

I still don't think running one snowcat off of Spruce over to Sterling would have much of an environmental impact. Vail has the capitol to make that happen I believe. A little skating is good for the soul anyways. Maybe it would be a bit much for a few but so what? That duel citizenship pass would be sick. 

I love both of those mountains but I gotta agree with thearchitect here. That Madonna chair may be one of the very best lift pods in the north east but my god is it slow and cold!


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## Smellytele (Aug 30, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> I still don't think running one snowcat off of Spruce over to Sterling would have much of an environmental impact. Vail has the capitol to make that happen I believe. A little skating is good for the soul anyways. Maybe it would be a bit much for a few but so what? That duel citizenship pass would be sick.



Do you understand how the State of VT operates?


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## raisingarizona (Aug 30, 2018)

Smellytele said:


> Do you understand how the State of VT operates?



I bet they like $


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## skiur (Aug 30, 2018)

Its very difficult to do anything above 3500' in the state of Vermont.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 30, 2018)

raisingarizona said:


> * Madonna chair may be one of the very best lift pods in the north east but my god is it slow and cold!*



A HSQ there would be the best single lift upgrade I can think of in the east. I've been saying that since 1997 though, so I'm not holding my breath.  Sadly, this will only occur under new ownership, who will screw up and change 101 other things that I currently love, and at that point I'd long for my old, decrepit, slow & cold double.



Smellytele said:


> *Do you understand how the State of VT operates?*



Corruptly.


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## bigbog (Aug 30, 2018)

speden said:


> "Alfred, fuel up the jet..."
> 
> "Right away Master Bruce"



++1
Ikon = Jan/Feb skiing & flyfishing out West


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## GregoryIsaacs (Aug 30, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> A HSQ there would be the best single lift upgrade I can think of in the east. I've been saying that since 1997 though, so I'm not holding my breath.  Sadly, this will only occur under new ownership, who will screw up and change 101 other things that I currently love, and at that point I'd long for my old, decrepit, slow & cold double.
> 
> Id say its probably neck and neck with a HSQ for Attitash....


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## deadheadskier (Aug 30, 2018)

I'd rather see Madonna II go HSQ and just shorten Madonna I to start at the Mulcahy crossing.  

Keep the high volume trail scraping traffic down low where the best low level intermediate terrain on the mountain is.  Keep the top lower traffic and reduce the run out and lift ride time to access it.

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## KustyTheKlown (Aug 30, 2018)

^that


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## thetrailboss (Aug 30, 2018)

I think Smuggs was planning a six-pack for Sterling.  


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## benski (Aug 30, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> I think Smuggs was planning a six-pack for Sterling.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



They were, I used to know a guy who did some early work on the project.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 30, 2018)

benski said:


> They were, I used to know a guy who did some early work on the project.



So is that dead?  I imagine that the cost difference between maintaining and operating a six-pack and a double is huge.


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## benski (Aug 30, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> So is that dead?  I imagine that the cost difference between maintaining and operating a six-pack and a double is huge.



I think he said once they had a plan they shelved it, I think due to trail widening.


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## BenedictGomez (Aug 30, 2018)

thetrailboss said:


> I think Smuggs was planning *a six-pack for Sterling.  *




That's overkill.


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## thetrailboss (Aug 31, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's overkill.



I thought so as well.  I could see a HSQ on Sterling and, as DHS said, one on the lower Madonna side.  I think that Smuggs is trying hard to not go into debt.  They might be a good candidate for a fixed grip quad/conveyor option.  

It amazes me how they continue to get high rankings in the resort reviews DESPITE having such old and slow lifts.  That really speaks volumes about what they are doing with the rest of the resort (operations, service, etc.).  A lot of the market demands fast lifts.


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## Zermatt (Aug 31, 2018)

Good thing there are blackout dates at Niseko.  Everyone knows the Japanese all celebrate MLK and President's weekend by taking the whole family skiing.


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## machski (Aug 31, 2018)

billo said:


> Good thing there are blackout dates at Niseko.  Everyone knows the Japanese all celebrate MLK and President's weekend by taking the whole family skiing.


I'm sure they just had to match partner benefits.

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## prsboogie (Sep 3, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> peaks pass makes no damn sense.
> 
> epic has its arguments. one of my best ski buddies loves stowe, the beer scene around stowe, and wants to eventually buy a vacation home in stowe. for him, the inclusion of unlimited stowe was enough. for me, it's not. i dont want to put on that many miles or time in the car. i also ski 40-50 days a season and he skis 20-30. for him, stowe + breck/beaver/vail/whistler is enough. i disagree. but different strokes.


Not quite sure why you think Peaks Pass makes no damn sense? Not everyone has the ability to fly out west to ski once a year let alone multiple times, so it offers a decent pairing of mountains which as DHS mentioned offers limited crowds and mostly easy access.

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## x10003q (Sep 3, 2018)

prsboogie said:


> Not quite sure why you think Peaks Pass makes no damn sense? Not everyone has the ability to fly out west to ski once a year let alone multiple times, so it offers a decent pairing of mountains which as DHS mentioned offers limited crowds and mostly easy access.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk



If you are coming out of NY metro, a Peaks Pass is basically Hunter and Mt Snow, 2 of the most crowded weekend ski areas in the East. Jack Frost and BB are tiny and are just as far as Hunter. Crotched is a fun area, but it is 4 hours and you are not really going to spend the weekend there. Attitash/Wildcat are roughly 6 hours and that means driving by a lot of closer areas.

The Peaks Pass has a lot more value to Mass/RI/CT/NH skiers and PA skiers who ski are JF/BB.


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## cdskier (Sep 3, 2018)

x10003q said:


> If you are coming out of NY metro, a Peaks Pass is basically Hunter and Mt Snow, 2 of the most crowded weekend ski areas in the East. Jack Frost and BB are tiny and are just as far as Hunter. Crotched is a fun area, but it is 4 hours and you are not really going to spend the weekend there. Attitash/Wildcat are roughly 6 hours and that means driving by a lot of closer areas.
> 
> The Peaks Pass has a lot more value to Mass/RI/CT/NH skiers and PA skiers who ski are JF/BB.



If you are coming out of NY metro and ski only the east, I'd argue that none of the multi-mountain passes are ideal at this point. Epic and Ikon don't exactly offer much in the east that is easily accessibly to a NY metro skier. For someone to make a blanket statement saying "peaks pass makes no damn sense" is pretty silly. Maybe for that specific person's scenario it makes no sense, but for plenty of other people it makes a lot of sense.

You argue that Hunter and Mt Snow are two of the most crowded weekend ski areas in the east. Doesn't that also mean that a lot of people ski those areas and would greatly benefit from a pass that includes those places? They also happen to be two of the closest major ski areas to the NY metro area. For a NY metro area skier that doesn't want to drive 5+ hours and doesn't plan to go out west, Peaks pass probably makes more sense than either Epic or Ikon.


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## prsboogie (Sep 3, 2018)

cdskier said:


> If you are coming out of NY metro and ski only the east, I'd argue that none of the multi-mountain passes are ideal at this point. Epic and Ikon don't exactly offer much in the east that is easily accessibly to a NY metro skier. For someone to make a blanket statement saying "peaks pass makes no damn sense" is pretty silly. Maybe for that specific person's scenario it makes no sense, but for plenty of other people it makes a lot of sense.
> 
> You argue that Hunter and Mt Snow are two of the most crowded weekend ski areas in the east. Doesn't that also mean that a lot of people ski those areas and would greatly benefit from a pass that includes those places? They also happen to be two of the closest major ski areas to the NY metro area. For a NY metro area skier that doesn't want to drive 5+ hours and doesn't plan to go out west, Peaks pass probably makes more sense than either Epic or Ikon.


This. Plus if a pass doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for others


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## x10003q (Sep 3, 2018)

cdskier said:


> If you are coming out of NY metro and ski only the east, I'd argue that none of the multi-mountain passes are ideal at this point. Epic and Ikon don't exactly offer much in the east that is easily accessibly to a NY metro skier. For someone to make a blanket statement saying "peaks pass makes no damn sense" is pretty silly. Maybe for that specific person's scenario it makes no sense, but for plenty of other people it makes a lot of sense.
> 
> You argue that Hunter and Mt Snow are two of the most crowded weekend ski areas in the east. Doesn't that also mean that a lot of people ski those areas and would greatly benefit from a pass that includes those places? They also happen to be two of the closest major ski areas to the NY metro area. For a NY metro area skier that doesn't want to drive 5+ hours and doesn't plan to go out west, Peaks pass probably makes more sense than either Epic or Ikon.



I  disagree on the choice of Peaks over Ikon coming out of NYC. Stratton/Pico/Killington/Sugarbush is more interesting than the Peaks choice of Hunter/Mt Snow. If you want a weekend day trip in the Catskills there is always Plattekill.

The  NY Ski3 pass includes Belleayre, Gore, and Whiteface for about the same price as the Peaks Pass, another example of a better choice.


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## cdskier (Sep 3, 2018)

x10003q said:


> I  disagree on the choice of Peaks over Ikon coming out of NYC. Stratton/Pico/Killington/Sugarbush is more interesting than the Peaks choice of Hunter/Mt Snow. If you want a weekend day trip in the Catskills there is always Plattekill.
> 
> The  NY Ski3 pass includes Belleayre, Gore, and Whiteface for about the same price as the Peaks Pass, another example of a better choice.



Ikon is limited to 7 days at each resort and Pico is not included. The early Ikon price was $900. If those resorts you mentioned are the only places you plan to use Ikon, then I don't see it being a good choice for the NY metro skier in terms of value. While the resorts may be more interesting on Ikon, the value is not there for a NY Metro skier that doesn't plan to go out west especially if you want to ski more than 21 days. Honestly, you could get a standalone Sugarbush or Killington pass for that Ikon price and ski at either of those an unlimited amount. To me, that's a better value than Ikon for a NY metro area skier. I'd rather ski 30-40 days at Sugarbush or K than 7 at SB, 7 at K, and 7 at Stratton (sure you can expand the distance to include SR, SL, etc for Ikon, but then the argument about Wildcat and Attitash being too far on Peaks pass for a NY metro skier goes out the window).

I'll give you the NY Ski3 being a good choice (but to be fair, no one was talking about that one and the conversation was comparing Peaks, Ikon, and Epic).

If Ikon was unlimited or had at least double the number of days at each resort, then I could see it being a good choice for someone in the NY metro area even if they didn't plan to go out west. As is though, unless you plan to go out west, it just isn't a great deal for people in this area.


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## benski (Sep 3, 2018)

Peaks pass is not a bad value for New Yorkers. It has the 2 most popular mountains for New Yorkers and you can take a longer vacation to the white mountains if that is not enough.


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## x10003q (Sep 3, 2018)

cdskier said:


> Ikon is limited to 7 days at each resort and Pico is not included. The early Ikon price was $900. If those resorts you mentioned are the only places you plan to use Ikon, then I don't see it being a good choice for the NY metro skier in terms of value. While the resorts may be more interesting on Ikon, the value is not there for a NY Metro skier that doesn't plan to go out west especially if you want to ski more than 21 days. Honestly, you could get a standalone Sugarbush or Killington pass for that Ikon price and ski at either of those an unlimited amount. To me, that's a better value than Ikon for a NY metro area skier. I'd rather ski 30-40 days at Sugarbush or K than 7 at SB, 7 at K, and 7 at Stratton (sure you can expand the distance to include SR, SL, etc for Ikon, but then the argument about Wildcat and Attitash being too far on Peaks pass for a NY metro skier goes out the window).
> 
> I'll give you the NY Ski3 being a good choice (but to be fair, no one was talking about that one and the conversation was comparing Peaks, Ikon, and Epic).
> 
> If Ikon was unlimited or had at least double the number of days at each resort, then I could see it being a good choice for someone in the NY metro area even if they didn't plan to go out west. As is though, unless you plan to go out west, it just isn't a great deal for people in this area.



The Ikon Pass is unlimited at Stratton which matches Mt Snow and then you get Killington and Sugarbush for 7 days each.


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## cdskier (Sep 3, 2018)

x10003q said:


> The Ikon Pass is unlimited at Stratton which matches Mt Snow and then you get Killington and Sugarbush for 7 days each.



I still say it is a better value to get either an unlimited K pass (which would include Pico access unlike Ikon) or an unlimited SB pass instead of Ikon if you're only using Ikon for Stratton/K/SB. Killington is only 20-25 minutes further than Stratton from the North Jersey area so I don't see the point of bothering with Stratton for that little of a difference.


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## ss20 (Sep 4, 2018)

For the metro NY area skier (like myself, being in western CT) I'm on-board with Ikon not bringing enough to the table.  Killington, Stratton, Loon, and SB are all that are within 4 hours of driving for me.  SR and Sugarloaf are 6-7 hours away.  5 days at each for $700???  Max pass brought that and more with daytrip options like Belle, Windham, hell...I even drove to Mountain Creek midweek just to try it and got a powder night at Watchusett.

This thing really needed Pico on the card for me to seriously consider it.  Even then the price point is pretty high and you  have to use more than 3 days at each mountain I listed to make it worth it.  I did not hit every place in the East that was on the Max pass...and had a lot of places I only hit once or twice...still got 20 days on the pass and I don't feel like it owed me anything.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 4, 2018)

cdskier said:


> If you are coming out of NY metro and ski only the east, I'd argue that none of the multi-mountain passes are ideal at this point.



Yup.  Each year I spend about 5 minutes looking at them, because 5 minutes is about all it takes for me to realize I can do better with various individual lift ticket deals.  And that holds even if I plan a trip out west.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 4, 2018)

ss20 said:


> For the metro NY area skier (like myself, being in western CT) I'm on-board with Ikon not bringing enough to the table.  Killington, Stratton, Loon, and SB are all that are within 4 hours of driving for me.  SR and Sugarloaf are 6-7 hours away.  5 days at each for $700???  Max pass brought that and more with daytrip options like Belle, Windham, hell...I even drove to Mountain Creek midweek just to try it and got a powder night at Watchusett.
> 
> This thing really needed Pico on the card for me to seriously consider it.  Even then the price point is pretty high and you  have to use more than 3 days at each mountain I listed to make it worth it.  I did not hit every place in the East that was on the Max pass...and had a lot of places I only hit once or twice...still got 20 days on the pass and I don't feel like it owed me anything.



full agreement that max was better. max was incredible. it was the greatest ski years of my life. ikon is best right now.


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## trackbiker (Sep 5, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yup.  Each year I spend about 5 minutes looking at them, because 5 minutes is about all it takes for me to realize I can do better with various individual lift ticket deals.  And that holds even if I plan a trip out west.



Does it appear to anyone else, since these multi mountain passes have increased, that areas are offering fewer deals elsewhere?


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## Jully (Sep 5, 2018)

trackbiker said:


> Does it appear to anyone else, since these multi mountain passes have increased, that areas are offering fewer deals elsewhere?



The mountains owned by Alterra and Vail definitely offer fewer to zero deals because they want you to buy the cheap pass. However, I don't think non-Alterra/Vail resorts are offering fewer deals. Sunday River for instance is offering a bevy of whacky deals, Sugarloaf sold 3 packs this summer (they rarely if ever do that), the Ride and Ski Card has expanded.

There may be fewer absolutely stupid cheap steals in recent years, but I think that is just the cyclical nature of deals. I doubt multi-mountain passes have anything to do with that.


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## machski (Sep 5, 2018)

Jully said:


> The mountains owned by Alterra and Vail definitely offer fewer to zero deals because they want you to buy the cheap pass. However, I don't think non-Alterra/Vail resorts are offering fewer deals. Sunday River for instance is offering a bevy of whacky deals, Sugarloaf sold 3 packs this summer (they rarely if ever do that), the Ride and Ski Card has expanded.
> 
> There may be fewer absolutely stupid cheap steals in recent years, but I think that is just the cyclical nature of deals. I doubt multi-mountain passes have anything to do with that.


Yeah, not sure if Loon or Loaf are doing it now, but SR you can buy a Threedom Pass (Funny, that's what the old Waterville/Loon/Cranmore pass used to be called) for like $209 giving you ANY three days during the season then 40% off weekday/non holiday and 20% off holiday/weekends unlimited.  Almost like the old frequent skier card (but a bit more up front $ wise).

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## robocop (Sep 5, 2018)

Rumor has it Alterra is purchasing Crystal Mountain, and will make the announcement in the coming days. Another resort in the Seattle area added to the Ikon pass!


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 6, 2018)

trackbiker said:


> Does it appear to anyone else, since these multi mountain passes have increased, that areas are offering fewer deals elsewhere?



I do believe that the absolute number of "great deals" has definitely decreased over the last 3 or 4'ish years, though I dont know all the contributing factors that make this so.   That said, I do think that may well-be one of the factors. 

 My sense is it's more that there's been an overarching attempt recently to decrease discounts industry-wide.


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## abc (Sep 6, 2018)

BenedictGomez said:


> My sense is it's more that there's been an overarching attempt recently to decrease discounts industry-wide.


More than just "industry-wide". It's across most industries!

Welcome to the world of "data-driven marketing". Discounts are still being offered, but the focuses are changing. Many of the traditional/typical discounts disappear, replaced by different type of discounts...

Liftopia is a good example, it changes its pricing based on demand, instantly!


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 6, 2018)

Crystal confirmed. Unlimited no blackouts at base pass level


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## speden (Sep 6, 2018)

I haven't heard much about Crystal. Would it be worth flying across the country to go there compared to some of the other Ikon resort options? Or is it more of a place for locals that live there?


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## machski (Sep 6, 2018)

speden said:


> I haven't heard much about Crystal. Would it be worth flying across the country to go there compared to some of the other Ikon resort options? Or is it more of a place for locals that live there?


Not much lodging and no base village or anything like that.  But the terrain is great.  It is also PNW, so with that comes with a lot of snow but always a chance for weather to swing to what we deal with in the East as well.  So if your goal is to ski a great location with great terrain, Crystal is great.  If your goal is posh lodging, buffed slopes and dry/powdery snow, probably not.

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## Jully (Sep 6, 2018)

speden said:


> I haven't heard much about Crystal. Would it be worth flying across the country to go there compared to some of the other Ikon resort options? Or is it more of a place for locals that live there?



It is all about the snow year we have. If the Rockies are having a killer year, I see little reason to fly the extra distance for Crystal unless you're starved for variety.

Many years they have way better conditions than the more traditional resorts, especially early season IIRC


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 6, 2018)

crystal is amazing. it would be world class if it had lodging. but it doesnt. so it remains a seattle day trip spot. there are a serious lack of beds nearby. closest motels are in enumclaw, which is a solid 45-60 min away. there are a few houses and hotels on mountain but they book up fast. national park restrictions. they have a really fun RV/camping lot scene, due to the lack of beds. absolutely serious no joke terrain. southback and the northway. look at the trail map. it gets puked on, but the snow can be heavy/wet. its all about the rain/snow elevation line in washington.

flights to seattle were VERY cheap last year. alaska v delta price wars.


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## abc (Sep 6, 2018)

speden said:


> Would it be worth flying across the country to go there compared to some of the other Ikon resort options?


Once you're on a plane, it doesn't really matter whether that plane lands in Denver or Salt Lake City or Seattle!

The extra hour (or two) doesn't really change thing in any substantial way. Places like Big Sky or Taos, which requires a change of plane to even get to Bozeman/Santa Fe, is actually "further away". 

That said, the distance from the airport, or from lodging, will be felt more keenly.


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## jaytrem (Sep 6, 2018)

KustyTheKlown said:


> flights to seattle were VERY cheap last year. alaska v delta price wars.



Seattle and Portland are usually some of the easier mileage flights too.  

I'm 0 for 2 when it comes to Crystal.  1st time they had a massive snow storm, unfortunately the lower elevations had a massive rain storm that washed out the road.  No big deal, headed to Canada a day early.  2nd time there was much better snow to the East so we only hit White Pass and headed towards Idaho.


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## machski (Sep 10, 2018)

This is an interesting read.  Crystal is now Alterra owned and not because they made JK a sweetheart deal.
https://www.rei.com/blog/snowsports/why-john-kircher-decided-to-sell-crystal-mountain

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## x10003q (Sep 10, 2018)

machski said:


> This is an interesting read.  Crystal is now Alterra owned and not because they made JK a sweetheart deal.
> https://www.rei.com/blog/snowsports/why-john-kircher-decided-to-sell-crystal-mountain
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app



Why do you think they didn't get a sweetheart deal (not that there is anything wrong with that)? There is no discussion about the deal in the article.


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## BenedictGomez (Sep 10, 2018)

Did I miss the part about the financials regarding his acquisition price and his sales price only 1 year later?


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## machski (Sep 10, 2018)

x10003q said:


> Why do you think they didn't get a sweetheart deal (not that there is anything wrong with that)? There is no discussion about the deal in the article.


I had heard he got offered a sweetheart deal he couldn't refuse (as in Alterra came to him).  This article refutes that, JK states he was the one who approached Alterra and pushed for them to buy Crystal from him.  I am sure he got a good price, but I don't think it was over the moon given he was the courter.

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## MadPadraic (Sep 17, 2018)

speden said:


> I haven't heard much about Crystal. Would it be worth flying across the country to go there compared to some of the other Ikon resort options? Or is it more of a place for locals that live there?



Yes.  Crystal is one of the few mountains I've been to that has terrain that actually scares me. Silver Queen (at least early season) is very intense and Northway has some bat-shit insane entrances.  That being said, the intermediate terrain in green valley is superb: blue terrain with a cornice! Also, there are some very fun trees.   The single blacks scattered throughout (and especially in Northway) are crazy fun. All this being said, most of their singles would rate as doubles at most resorts (East or West).

Their is no resort feel,  nor is there a cute town to visit near by. The village has a good vibe, but your choices are limited. I normally like to stay within walking distance of the lifts, but here I'd recommend staying at Alta Crystal.


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## KustyTheKlown (Sep 17, 2018)

some of those northway gated cornice entries are wild wild stuff.


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 18, 2018)

Crystal is certainly challenging.  Lucked into a bluebird day after a decent night's snowfall and fell in love with the place.  A few pics:


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## MadPadraic (Sep 23, 2018)

Is that Silverqueen in the 1st picture, and then bear's whatever in the last one?  If I was in a position to priceline a trip to a storm, I wouldn't hesitate going to Crystal. However, I was organizing a long weekend getaway with a bunch of pals who tire easily, I'd head to Steamboat.


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## sugarbushskier (Sep 25, 2018)

First pic is the aforementioned Northway chair. Hairy entrances from the top, but mellower as you ski down.  Spent half my day skiing this part of Crystal as it had some great trees!


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