# Not impressed with Mount Snow's ski school



## New Daddy (Dec 28, 2013)

Had my son attend Mount Snow's 7-and-over ski school from the 24th to the 26th. I understand it was a busy week, but we've had far better experience at other resorts in similarly busy times.

During each of the three half-day sessions, my son rode the chairlift just twice! I think he spent as much time at Bullwheel - the mountaintop cafe - as on the trail. The instructor-to-kids ratio was terrible too. I think they had 8 kids on one of the three days.  And on the 24th, my son had a HIGH SCHOOL KID as an instructor! Is this normal? even legal? It not like summer camps, where high school kids work as counselors under supervision of more experienced teacher. I think everything points to one cause: they were terribly short-handed and didn't hire enough staff.


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## kartski (Dec 28, 2013)

The Snow Time amount kinda s*cks, but my Daughter taught Seasonal Classes at Hunter at 16 and 17. She took Seasonal Classes from 3 to 15, knew the mountain and what to do and when. Her kids definitely had more than 2 runs a session though.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 28, 2013)

I'm guessing those 1/2-days are not cheap either sadly.


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## AdironRider (Dec 28, 2013)

So you bought a half day group lesson on the busiest days of the year, at one of the busiest ski areas on the East Coast, and are surprised they weren't getting ski on laps? 

This seems more a problem with expectation than with the ski school. 

And you get what you pay for.


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## Edd (Dec 28, 2013)

This veers off the topic of Mt Snow's school a bit but, just before Xmas, ski areas have typically done a massive amount of hiring and quick training.  The new employees aren't paid well and thrown into the pool.  Then the holiday crowds show up, with likely limited terrain open, and the chinks in the armor will show.  That's just the reality of ski industry economics.

As the season progresses the employees get better at their jobs and they hopefully weed out the bad workers.  This is the truly crazy time.  None of this excuses any possible mistakes at Mt. Snow, of course.  I personally avoid holiday ski week altogether.


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## AdironRider (Dec 28, 2013)

Its totally illegal to have someone under 18 teaching ski lessons


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## andrec10 (Dec 28, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> Its totally illegal to have someone under 18 teaching ski lessons



No it is not!


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 28, 2013)

andrec10 said:


> No it is not!



He was entirely joking by the smily face. 
Without sub 18 yr old workers the ski industry would die. Who else is going to deal with someones pain in the ass children for minimum wage and a seasons pass? I would guess 40% oof ski school instructors are under 18 with most being college or retired people. VERY hard to survive on a ski instructors pay. Just because you pay a small fortune to the mtn for lessons does not mean that they pay the instructor very well.

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## steamboat1 (Dec 28, 2013)

Sounds like Daddy didn't get enough ski time for himself.


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## millerm277 (Dec 29, 2013)

I see the primary problem here the only getting 2 runs in. You paid for a lesson, not a day-care with 20 min skiing break, day-care would be far cheaper but it's not what you're paying for.


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## snoseek (Dec 29, 2013)

consider voicing your issues with mgmt. and maybe they will make things right. Agreed that xmas week is crazy at ski areas. Pick a weekend at the end of January and results will likely be better.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

(I started the OP not only to express my disgruntle but to inform other parents.)

Well, if Mount Snow's ski school strategy is to maximize profit by skimping on staff and paying them minimum wage, I'm not sure that's wise business strategy. I thought children's ski school and daycare are there to attract families, not to make a lot of money. Mount Snow surely won't see my family's business again!  I also discovered yesterday that the waiver form was still in my ski jacket. I remember that my son was lead to the meeting area directly next to the Canyon lift, as he was pre-paid online and the ski school front desk was a total mayhem with people on the 24th. And they forgot to collect the waiver form. It is another sign of how disorganized their system was.

I understand it was a busy week, but like I said, we always ski around Christmas and some resorts simply operate better. The picture below is from Okemo around Christmas last year. Look at the instructor-to-kids ratio! The scene is dotted with instructors. I think this is how ski school should be run.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 29, 2013)

You are being very unrealistic here. 
For starters who Mt Snow has working in their ski school is the norm, not the exception for the ski industry. Just be happy you didnt end up with some international who doesnt speak English.
In the pic you posted from okemo it shows the magic carpet area with all the real little tiny kids. All mtns have more workers in this area and im sure had you gone to that area at Mt Snow you would have seen the same thing. You had your kid in a more advanced lesson than that which goes all over the mtn. Of coarse there will not be a army of instructors following them around.

Yes I do feel that if they truely only took 2 runs a day that is rediculous(but based on my dealings with most of the holiday crowds at resorts you are over exagerating greatly). If your kid is in a group lesson the instructor must make the group happy, not just your kid. So if the entire class is crying about how cold they are and need coco they will go get coco.

Mt Snow is one of my least favorite mtns so it pains me to defend them, but sometimes the truth hurts.


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## ss20 (Dec 29, 2013)

Don't be surprised your kid only got 2 rides to the top yesterday.  15 minute wait to get on the lift, 10 minutes up, 30 minutes down.  Don't be surprised the place was a zoo.  It's a zoo on peak season Saturdays.  The mountain's proximity to NYC s why it's so popular.


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## twinplanx (Dec 29, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> You are being very unrealistic here...
> 
> Mt Snow is one of my least favorite mtns(in VT) so it pains me to defend them, but sometimes the truth hurts.



Fixed it for ya ;-) 

Not exactly sure what the OP expected during (arguably) the  busiest week of the season... I believe the experience would be on the complete opposite end of the spectrum during ANY non-holiday period. Even your average weekend is ALOT less of a shit show. 


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

Hawkshot99 said:


> You are being very unrealistic here.
> For starters who Mt Snow has working in their ski school is the norm, not the exception for the ski industry. Just be happy you didnt end up with some international who doesnt speak English.
> In the pic you posted from okemo it shows the magic carpet area with all the real little tiny kids. All mtns have more workers in this area and im sure had you gone to that area at Mt Snow you would have seen the same thing. You had your kid in a more advanced lesson than that which goes all over the mtn. Of coarse there will not be a army of instructors following them around.
> 
> ...



When was the last time you had your kid in ski school? 

If my assessment based on "real-life" experience with ski schools for the past five years during the same Christmas week is "unrealistic", then I don't know what can be more "realistic". And it wasn't exaggeration that they logged only 2 runs for each of the three half-day lessons. On the third day, I followed them to see how poorly the whole this was run. After one run on Canyon, they got on the Bluebird, got off, went into the Bulwheel, stayed there for 30 minutes, came down Cascade+Canyon, and called it a half-day for the morning session kids. I have a feeling that it was carefully designed that way, because that pattern repeated itself all three days.

Yes, the photo I posted above is from the magic carpet area, but my experience with Okemo's ski program for older kids is just the same. Below is a from older kids' ski school from last year at Okemo on Christmas eve.  One instructor and 4 kids. (The guy in light blue is not a student. He was an adult just crossing path.) And I can assure you that my son, in the same half-day lesson, logged far more runs at Okemo too, including at least one or two on Northstar.  I'm only making comparison to Okemo, but Stratton during Christmas wasn't too bad either. (I don't have photos from Stratton to compare.) 

Nobody is disputing the fact that Christmas week is busy time. I'm relaying my own experience that shows how vastly different it is how each resort copes with arguably the busiest time of the year. THAT is the reality. What you ended up doing is not just defending Mount Snow, but adding misinformation on this forum based on your imagination detached from reality. That sounds like a lot of favor for one of your least favorite resorts.


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## Tin (Dec 29, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> So you bought a half day group lesson on the busiest days of the year, at one of the busiest ski areas on the East Coast, and are surprised they weren't getting ski on laps?



This.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

ss20 said:


> Don't be surprised your kid only got 2 rides to the top yesterday.  15 minute wait to get on the lift, 10 minutes up, 30 minutes down.  Don't be surprised the place was a zoo.  It's a zoo on peak season Saturdays.  The mountain's proximity to NYC s why it's so popular.



I think you haven't watched (your own) kids in ski school program get on lifts. They don't have to stand in line.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

Tin said:


> This.



Let me repeat. My experience at other resorts during the same busy time was different.

Let me put it this way, since some of you have problem comprehending that some resorts take it better during busy times: if you are a parent and wants your kid to have more ski time and instruction even during the busiest times, some mountains have consistently been able to do it year in and year out, but Mount Snow in 2013 didn't.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 29, 2013)

I was stationed at the beginner area (Spruce) at Stowe for 5 or 6 years and I can tell you it's a well-oiled machine.   Give them a shot next Christmas.


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## wa-loaf (Dec 29, 2013)

Regardless of what one should expect this is an increasingly customer focused world and if you don't make them happy you are likely to get outed in social media. Mt Snow and everyone else should step up their game or expect to lose out to the people who do do a good job. Blaming the consumer is not the way to go. Anyone who's not sure should see the chart in the blog post: http://blogs.forrester.com/harley_m...ce_leaders_spank_customer_experience_laggards


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2013)

So it didn't work out the first day and you went back for two more without saying something to management?


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> So it didn't work out the first day and you went back for two more without saying something to management?



We bought three-days' lessons for discount. After the first day, we were kind of hoping that things would be different on following days. After the second day, my wife and I concluded that Mount Snow's ski school really sucked. At that point, we carefully considered taking it to the management (or even switching to private lesson), but it was only one more day and we thought it was too much hassle. The good thing is we don't have to go back to Mount Snow.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> We bought three-days' lessons for discount. After the first day, we were kind of hoping that things would be different on following days. After the second day, my wife and I concluded that Mount Snow's ski school really sucked. At that point, we carefully considered taking it to the management (or even switching to private lesson), but it was only one more day and we thought it was too much hassle. The good thing is we don't have to go back to Mount Snow.



Ah yes, why bother giving them the opportunity to make it right when you could come on AZ and complain?  :roll:  Because we can really help you here.  It sucks, but I would personally not sit back and let a problem go on once, let alone three times without saying something.  I bet if you voiced concern on the first day that they would have helped.  If not, then I'd understand your anger and would sympathize. 

Also, was this a "lesson" as opposed to, say, an "adventure" program or basically babysitting your kid for a few hours?  Burke and Sugarbush had both options.  The latter was not so much lessons as opposed to just entertaining your kids.  

No offense meant, but you need to speak up if something isn't working as soon as possible. I just think it's passive-aggressive to go along with the program for three days and not say something only to come in here and anonymously bash them after the fact. That's really not fair.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> I was stationed at the beginner area (Spruce) at Stowe for 5 or 6 years and I can tell you it's a well-oiled machine.   Give them a shot next Christmas.



Yes, my family went to Stowe during the Presidents week a few years ago, and I could tell that their program was well-run.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Ah yes, why bother giving them the opportunity to make it right when you could come on AZ and complain?  :roll:  Because we can really help you here.  It sucks, but I would personally not sit back and let a problem go on once, let alone three times.



As I said, I was as much disseminating information for other parents as complaining here.  Think of it as my public service. :grin:

I think I'll talk to the management after all. Who knows. Maybe I can get my money back. But I think disseminating information to a wider public - and urging them to vote with their feet - is a better way of making Mount Snow operate better.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2013)

/*





New Daddy said:


> As I said, I was as much disseminating information for other parents as complaining here.  Think of it as my public service. +-:grin:
> I think I'll talk to the management after all. Who knows. Maybe I can get my money back. But I think disseminating information to a wider public - and urging them to vote with their feet - is a better way of making Mount Snow operate better.



But that's my point...you're NOT helping us at all...you're complaining when you could have stepped up and helped yourself and others initially so that others could have had a better experience.  Instead, you stood back and did nothing.  I bet you even tipped the instructors! :lol:

The best time to have asked for a refund would have been right there and then, face-to-face.  Not days later after posting anonymously on a ski site.

And I'd again understand if you tried to do something and they didn't help, but you didn't.


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## mister moose (Dec 29, 2013)

I agree that the OP should have voiced the issue before he left, preferably while there was still time to try to correct it. I suspect that there was little the resort could do after the fact other than a partial refund or voucher for a free lesson later in the season. The one thing they probably couldn't have done is fix the problem as there wasn't enough staff in the first place to handle the crowds that were there.  Perhaps he needed to be in a slightly more advanced group that did more runs. By not talking to mgmnt, you didn't have that opportunity

Should the ski school limit the number of lessons they sell, and keep a guaranted instructor to student ratio? But then some parents who depended on the availability of a program for their kids will be ripped when they are told the lessons are sold out for the day.

The problem with attracting well trained staff for low pay has been discussed before. Given the business practices currently in the industry, I think expectations need to be reduced during peak holiday days.  If the clientele starts asking more questions on the age of the instructor, the certification of the instructor, the size of the class, and the duration of the class, I bet the product would improve and the customer would be better informed.

In my opinion, while your experience was better at other mountains in other years, I think you had an average experience at Mt Snow. Your child did get a lesson all 3 days, he did get a group experience that has to be tailored to the slowest child in the group, and he did not get lost, injured, or cancelled.  As one poster said, you did get what you paid for, but also you did not get your expectations met.  

Well educated consumers make for better consumers, and you just got a little more educated.


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## MadMadWorld (Dec 29, 2013)

What level was your son? Did he have the same instructor all 3 days? I started teaching at 15 at Wachusett and I remember my first Xmas vacation distinctly. Going forward, I would just find an instructor that your son seems to like and who looks like they have their shit together. Even though it's not a private lesson, ski school directors will do their best to accommodate requests for instructors whenever possible. Sorry you had a bad time and I can definitely sympathize with you. Those lessons aren't cheap!


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## AdironRider (Dec 29, 2013)

The story gets even better. Buying bar none the cheapest lesson (at a discount no less) and expecting VIP private lesson service.


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## Hawkshot99 (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> When was the last time you had your kid in ski school?



I do not have any children, I do however work in mgmt at ski mtn so I am quite familar with resorts.  I have many friends at assorted mtns as well that I talk to.  So it is first hand expierence.


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## Edd (Dec 29, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> Regardless of what one should expect this is an increasingly customer focused world and if you don't make them happy you are likely to get outed in social media. Mt Snow and everyone else should step up their game or expect to lose out to the people who do do a good job. Blaming the consumer is not the way to go. Anyone who's not sure should see the chart in the blog post: http://blogs.forrester.com/harley_m...ce_leaders_spank_customer_experience_laggards



I agree with this post 100%.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 29, 2013)

I think a lot of people here are being a bit too hard on this guy. It does kindof sound like Mt. Snow sucked if his depiction is accurate. 


That said, I turn the corner and also agree with the posters criticizing him for clamming up and doing absolutely nothing about it.  That's just lazy as hell, especially given how "upset" he claims to be.


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## Boardguy (Dec 29, 2013)

Some options - private lesson, keep the little guy with you and ski or better yet some of both. I too feel that you should have voiced your concerns with the ski school after the first day.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

Ok, I see two strands of thoughts in this thread (pun intended), not exclusive of each other.

First, there is criticism that I was not active enough as consumer and should not have come here to complain.
Second, my experience at Mount Snow was probably the norm and my expectation was too high.

I find both strands ridiculous to certain extent. 

First, I relayed my experience that I considered sub-par so other consumers seeking information - of which I'm sure there will be quite a few going forward - will benefit. Hypothetically, let's say I complained to the management at the scene. Still, wouldn't it be beneficial for me to come here and share my information? Does the value of my information decrease because I didn't complain to the management during my vacation?

Second, nobody except Hawkshot99 owned to not having children of their own, but I suspect many who claim my experience at Mount Snow was the norm are just assuming without actual experience. I've sent my kid to many different ski schools at the busiest times of the year - x-mas week and presidents' week - and also non-holiday times, so I know what to expect during x-mas. Mount Snow fell short, period. Well, if you happen to believe my experience was just what should be expected, I'm happy for you, because your expectation is really low and you can be easily satisfied as a consumer.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> The story gets even better. Buying bar none the cheapest lesson (at a discount no less) and expecting VIP private lesson service.



Go up a few posts and look at the photo of the group lesson on Christmas Eve of 2012 at Okemo. Does that look like a private lesson to you? Get your eyes checked.

You get discount if you buy multi-day, at any resort. It clearly shows that you don't have kids to send to ski school. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt - Lincoln.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> First, I relayed my experience that I considered sub-par so other consumers seeking information - of which I'm sure there will be quite a few going forward - will benefit. Hypothetically, let's say I complained to the management at the scene. Still, wouldn't it be beneficial for me to come here and share my information? Does the value of my information decrease because I didn't complain to the management during my vacation?



Again, nobody, including you, benefits.  The folks who enrolled their kids over the past week would have theoretically benefitted had you given feedback to the management.  Something could have been done.  Instead a relative handful are now anonymously hearing of your experience and many are not persuaded and in fact skeptical.  You're just trying to justify being passive and doing nothing.

And yes, I do have a daughter and though she has not been in a ski school yet we do have her in daycare.  We are constantly aware of how things are going and constantly giving feedback.  That's how it works.  

It seems more and more like you would never be happy, even if given the chance to try and take control of the situation.  I used to live like you and not "be in the moment" but learned pretty quickly that I was always upset.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> First, I relayed my experience that I considered sub-par so other consumers seeking information - of which I'm sure there will be quite a few going forward - will benefit. Hypothetically, let's say I complained to the management at the scene. Still, wouldn't it be beneficial for me to come here and share my information? Does the value of my information decrease because I didn't complain to the management during my vacation?



Sure, it's fine to relay your experience to other consumers.  However, most consumers will take that information with a grain of salt if they know no attempt was made by the person complaining to seek a resolution to the problems they experienced.

There's nothing a customer service business wants more than an opportunity to correct their mistakes.  If they don't receive feedback from their customers that their product needs work, they don't have an opportunity to improve. 

Sorry you had a bad experience.


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## Bene288 (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> (I started the OP not only to express my disgruntle but to inform other parents.)
> 
> Well, if Mount Snow's ski school strategy is to maximize profit by skimping on staff and paying them minimum wage, I'm not sure that's wise business strategy. I thought children's ski school and daycare are there to attract families, not to make a lot of money. Mount Snow surely won't see my family's business again



Mount Snow's business is to make money. They don't care about you or your kids, just the money you bring.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

thetrailboss said:


> Again, nobody, including you, benefits.  The folks who enrolled their kids over the past week would have theoretically benefitted had you given feedback to the management.  Something could have been done.  Instead a relative handful are now anonymously hearing of your experience and many are not persuaded and in fact skeptical.  You're just trying to justify being passive and doing nothing.
> 
> And yes, I do have a daughter and though she has not been in a ski school yet we do have her in daycare.  We are constantly aware of how things are going and constantly giving feedback.  That's how it works.
> 
> It seems more and more like you would never be happy, even if given the chance to try and take control of the situation.  I used to live like you and not "be in the moment" but learned pretty quickly that I was always upset.



I certainly don't need philosophy lecture from you. No thanks.

I think this was the first time that I was not happy with a ski school program on x-mas vacation. That's why I spoke up here. I don't know where you got "you would never be happy", although it does explain why you were always unhappy in the past, as you conceded. Everyone is different, I guess.

We will agree to disagree. Many websites - especially review sites, although this is not one - exist so people share their experiences - good and bad - without bearing the onus to actively trying to rectify.  I'm not committed to Mount Snow, so I saw no need to actively speak to the management, when I have other choices that delivered far better experience in the past. Maybe skiing is different from restaurants, but I wonder how many complain to the chef for sub-par food before writing a review on yelp. (And I'll repeat as some won't read the whole thread. It was a three-day lesson, and I realized Mount Snow's ski program must be systematically poor after the second day, with only one day left.)


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## drjeff (Dec 29, 2013)

I have had at least one, if not both of my kids in the Mountain Camp (age 7-14) at Mount Snow for the last 4 seasons. They have had Mountain Camp season passes and on average receive 30-35 days of Mountain Camp instruction per year on everything from early season to late season to full out holiday week crowds (the 26th, 28th and 29th this week too) My kids typically are tired at the end of the day pick up. Granted they're in or were in either the park group or the purple (most advanced) group, but they ski a lot during their lesson. One thing to keep in mind is that in the group lesson setting, especially on cold days like it was earlier this week, the instructors will ask the entire group if they are cold and/or need a break on every run - so if you have even 1 child in that group who answers "yes" then that class is taking a break. Let's be honest, not all kids handle the cold as well as others, and there are cold days where my kids experience a lesson where its a break after every run or two.

As for the Bullwheel break part, I guarantee that your kids weren't upstairs in the Bullwheel in the summit lodge as all race team and kids ski lesson groups aren't allowed upstairs in the Bullwheel bar area.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

Bene288 said:


> Mount Snow's business is to make money. They don't care about you or your kids, just the money you bring.



Of course. no doubt about it. What I meant was, I thought ski resorts provide day care and ski school to attract families as well as make money, but not to MAXIMIZE profit solely from day care and ski school. Some retailers deliberately sell some stuff at a loss - called loss-leaders - so they can attract consumers who will spend more on other stuff and more than make up for the loss.  I'm not into ski resort business, but I was thinking that ski school and day care might be offered in similar fashion. Not necessarily to lose money, but to attract families.


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## twinplanx (Dec 29, 2013)

For a "new daddy" you sure seem to have plenty of experience with ski schools during the  holidays.  Prehaps it's time for more advanced lessons? Or maybe you should actually ski with your kids... Sorry you had a bad experience, but this thread has provided the most entertainment this Sunday afternoon.  But I don't have kids, so what do I know... ;-) 

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## KevinF (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Of course. no doubt about it. What I meant was, *I thought ski resorts provide day care and ski school to attract families as well as make money, but not to MAXIMIZE profit solely from day care and ski school*. Some retailers deliberately sell some stuff at a loss - called loss-leaders - so they can attract consumers who will spend more on other stuff and more than make up for the loss.  I'm not into ski resort business, but I was thinking that ski school and day care might be offered in similar fashion. Not necessarily to lose money, but to attract families.



You thought wrong.


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> First, there is criticism that I was not active enough as consumer and should not have come here to complain.
> Second, my experience at Mount Snow was probably the norm and my expectation was too high.
> 
> *I find both strands ridiculous* to certain extent.



I'm beginning to see that one thing is certain here,  _this_ customer is always right.



Bene288 said:


> *
> 
> Mount Snow's business is to make money.* *They don't care about you or your kids, just the money you bring.*



The statement above is a failure of logic.   For starters, the business wouldn't MAKE money if it didnt care about the product/value the customer receives.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> I certainly don't need philosophy lecture from you. No thanks.
> 
> I think this was the first time that I was not happy with a ski school program on x-mas vacation. That's why I spoke up here. I don't know where you got "you would never be happy", although it does explain why you were always unhappy in the past, as you conceded. Everyone is different, I guess.
> 
> We will agree to disagree. Many websites - especially review sites, although this is not one - exist so people share their experiences - good and bad - without bearing the onus to actively trying to rectify.  I'm not committed to Mount Snow, so I saw no need to actively speak to the management, when I have other choices that delivered far better experience in the past. Maybe skiing is different from restaurants, but I wonder how many complain to the chef for sub-par food before writing a review on yelp. (And I'll repeat as some won't read the whole thread. It was a three-day lesson, and I realized Mount Snow's ski program must be systematically poor after the second day, with only one day left.)



If I read a review on yelp about a bad restaurant experience and the diner makes no mention of attempting to improve their experience through sending their food back or speaking with management, I ignore the review.


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## Geoff (Dec 29, 2013)

drjeff said:


> I have had at least one, if not both of my kids in the Mountain Camp (age 7-14) at Mount Snow for the last 4 seasons. They have had Mountain Camp season passes and on average receive 30-35 days of Mountain Camp instruction per year on everything from early season to late season to full out holiday week crowds (the 26th, 28th and 29th this week too) My kids typically are tired at the end of the day pick up. Granted they're in or were in either the park group or the purple (most advanced) group, but they ski a lot during their lesson.



Apples vs Oranges

Your kids are long-term repeat business.   They're treated very differently from a Christmas week kid half-day group lesson.

I can't speak for Mount Snow but at most larger resorts, I would have low expectations for half-day group kid lessons during Christmas week.   Resorts simply don't have the staffing so you're getting every part-timer and wannabe filling in.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> If I read a review on yelp about a bad restaurant experience and the diner makes no mention of attempting to improve their experience through sending their food back or speaking with management, I ignore the review.



Ok, this is off-topic, but I have news for you: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB990564481869649471

I do make my voice heard when I'm committed and I need to see improvement - like my kids' school.


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## AdironRider (Dec 29, 2013)

You going to start writing yelp reviews for the low grade dog food at Taco Bell?

"Buyer beware, this is not authentic Mexican food"


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## BenedictGomez (Dec 29, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> You going to start writing yelp reviews for the *low grade dog food* at Taco Bell?


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## Bene288 (Dec 29, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


> I'm beginning to see that one thing is certain here,  _this_ customer is always right.
> 
> 
> 
> The statement above is a failure of logic.   For starters, the business wouldn't MAKE money if it didnt care about the product/value the customer receives.



Parents are going to ski and enroll their kids in daycare so they can get more skiing by themselves. Somewhere along the line someone had the great idea to start a lesson/daycare program and charge a ton of money for it. Just like any business, some with strive for a superior product, and some will have the "screw it, they'll come regardless" attitude. They make a ton of money on the program regardless if it's sub par or stellar.


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## thetrailboss (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> I certainly don't need philosophy lecture from you. No thanks.
> 
> I think this was the first time that I was not happy with a ski school program on x-mas vacation. That's why I spoke up here. I don't know where you got "you would never be happy", although it does explain why you were always unhappy in the past, as you conceded. Everyone is different, I guess.
> 
> We will agree to disagree. Many websites - especially review sites, although this is not one - exist so people share their experiences - good and bad - without bearing the onus to actively trying to rectify. I'm not committed to Mount Snow, so I saw no need to actively speak to the management, when I have other choices that delivered far better experience in the past. Maybe skiing is different from restaurants, but I wonder how many complain to the chef for sub-par food before writing a review on yelp. (And I'll repeat as some won't read the whole thread. It was a three-day lesson, and I realized Mount Snow's ski program must be systematically poor after the second day, with only one day left.)



You're so busy talking that you're missing the point, which is this:



deadheadskier said:


> Sure, it's fine to relay your experience to other consumers.  However, most consumers will take that information with a grain of salt if they know no attempt was made by the person complaining to seek a resolution to the problems they experienced.
> 
> There's nothing a customer service business wants more than an opportunity to correct their mistakes.  If they don't receive feedback from their customers that their product needs work, they don't have an opportunity to improve.
> 
> Sorry you had a bad experience.



You should have given them a chance to fix it.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Ok, this is off-topic, but I have news for you: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB990564481869649471
> 
> I do make my voice heard when I'm committed and I need to see improvement - like my kids' school.



you were committed.  You paid for a three day lesson program.  your kid might have had a better experience if you spoke up after the first day.  your loss.  you had everything to gain by speaking up at the point of service.  you gain nothing by complaining after the fact.


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## goldsbar (Dec 29, 2013)

AdironRider said:


> So you bought a half day group lesson on the busiest days of the year, at one of the busiest ski areas on the East Coast, and are surprised they weren't getting ski on laps?



A little harsh but basically true based on my experience.  This is THE absolute worst time of the year for lessons.  I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is.  New instructors, an influx of customers from 30% full to 110% full.  Vote with your $s and don't go back.


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## gmcunni (Dec 29, 2013)

deadheadskier said:


> If I read a review on yelp about a bad restaurant experience and the diner makes no mention of attempting to improve their experience through sending their food back or speaking with management, I ignore the review.



if there are several bad reviews, regardless of whether the customer attempted to remediate, i take my business elsewhere.


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## legalskier (Dec 29, 2013)

Look at the bright side- at least you weren't at...omg...Catamount.  :wink:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/91726-Catamount-is-the-worst-in-the-EAST-!!!!
Seriously, Catamount is a fine area, just as Mt Snow is. They're also very convenient. Which means during holidays they get crowded. Perhaps the HS instructors who committed to work at MS this week never showed. That isn't MS's fault. Other posts here show the opposite experience than yours so maybe your timing just was unlucky. I don't know, but it's a bit unfair to criticize if you're only basing it on one experience. 
I do agree with others that you should have spoken up, but I don't think it's too late. You might contact/email them about it, state your case, and see if they can make things right.  MS's site lists Doug Daniels as "Skiing Services Manager/Director of Training," so he would be a good place to start.  http://mountsnow.com/pdf/recruitment-brochure.pdf

If you can't bring yourself to return, you might consider a less crowded option next time like Bromley, Magic or Pico. Killington also gets crowded like MS, but they've addressed the problem you described by dedicating all of Ramshead Peak to their kids program.  http://www.killington.com/winter/lessons/childrens_programs 

My kids skied in Belleayre's Skiwee program many years ago.  The instructors were young- probably HS or college age, and my kids always had a  ball. At the end of the day the instructors would relate what they worked on and what they needed to focus on in the future. We got our money's worth and left happy.  
Those are some nice memories. I miss those days. Enjoy them while you still have them.


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## Newpylong (Dec 29, 2013)

New Daddy said:


> Had my son attend Mount Snow's 7-and-over ski school from the 24th to the 26th. I understand it was a busy week, but we've had far better experience at other resorts in similarly busy times.
> 
> During each of the three half-day sessions, my son rode the chairlift just twice! I think he spent as much time at Bullwheel - the mountaintop cafe - as on the trail. The instructor-to-kids ratio was terrible too. I think they had 8 kids on one of the three days.  And on the 24th, my son had a HIGH SCHOOL KID as an instructor! Is this normal? even legal? It not like summer camps, where high school kids work as counselors under supervision of more experienced teacher. I think everything points to one cause: they were terribly short-handed and didn't hire enough staff.



Cool story, would be better off letting the mountain know and not a ski forum.


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## New Daddy (Dec 29, 2013)

legalskier said:


> Look at the bright side- at least you weren't at...omg...Catamount.  :wink:
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/91726-Catamount-is-the-worst-in-the-EAST-!!!!



Wow. That poster did speak with the manager at the mountain, but his report was not received any better. tough crowd.


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## C-Rex (Dec 29, 2013)

This makes me think of the time I took my ex-wife to Butternut and got her a snowboard lesson.  After the lesson she complained that all the instructor taught them was how to stand up when strapped in and how to skate around.  So I went into the lesson center, calmly and politely voiced my displeasure, and you wouldn't believe what happened.  Their head instructor dropped what he was doing, apologized to myself and my ex, and then took her out for around an hour and half private lesson.  By the end of that, she was linking turns and having a blast.  He also told us that the first instructor was new and that he would go through some retraining.  

Amazing what can happen if you're polite and reasonable, and give a business a chance to correct poor service.


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## MommaBear (Dec 29, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> Amazing what can happen if you're polite and reasonable, and give a business a chance to correct poor service.



To OP, you should have at least let the mountain know that you were unhappy (after day 1, but definitely after day 2).  They can't make something better if they are unaware something is wrong.


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## gmcunni (Dec 29, 2013)

whether newdaddy chose to speak to mgt or not i appreciate the comment posted here. tho i'm not in the market for putting my kids in a lessons these days someone else might see this info and ask before they commit to 3 days prepaid lessons at MT snow or any other mountain.

i think the rain is making everyone cranky.


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## gmcunni (Dec 29, 2013)

legalskier said:


> Look at the bright side- at least you weren't at...omg...Catamount.  :wink:
> http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/91726-Catamount-is-the-worst-in-the-EAST-!!!!



i too thought this thread was reminiscent of the catamount one.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 29, 2013)

C-Rex said:


> This makes me think of the time I took my ex-wife to Butternut and got her a snowboard lesson.  After the lesson she complained that all the instructor taught them was how to stand up when strapped in and how to skate around.  So I went into the lesson center, calmly and politely voiced my displeasure, and you wouldn't believe what happened.  Their head instructor dropped what he was doing, apologized to myself and my ex, and then took her out for around an hour and half private lesson.  By the end of that, she was linking turns and having a blast.  He also told us that the first instructor was new and that he would go through some retraining.
> 
> Amazing what can happen if you're polite and reasonable, and give a business a chance to correct poor service.



simple as that


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## gmcunni (Dec 29, 2013)

i had horrible day on the mountain a few years back, frustrated by what i perceived to be a poor line mgt strategy.   i left the mountain unsatisfied.  i came here to AZ to vent.  next day i got a PM from the GM of the mountain who saw my posting, he apologized for my bad day and comp'd me and my entire group (6 of us) tix for a return visit.


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## deadheadskier (Dec 30, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> i had horrible day on the mountain a few years back, frustrated by what i perceived to be a poor line mgt strategy.   i left the mountain unsatisfied.  i came here to AZ to vent.  next day i got a PM from the GM of the mountain who saw my posting, he apologized for my bad day and comp'd me and my entire group (6 of us) tix for a return visit.



That's beyond a rare experience though G.  Totally cool it happened, but I doubt your expectation through venting here was that the powers that be would read your thread, reach out to you, and try and make things better.

I'd put the odds at essentially zero that Peak Management reads this thread and reaches out to Newdaddy.   

I guess I just don't see the point in bitching about something when you make no effort to convey your feelings at the point of service in an attempt to have a business serve you better.  What's the goal/point in that?  If you don't give a business a chance to resolve your conflict, bitching about it online seems really vindictive and counterproductive to me.


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## SKI-3PO (Dec 30, 2013)

I expect a business that I provide money to know how to provide me a positive experience without my input.  Everyone's expectations are different - its fairly impossible to please everyone but those who please the most will be the most successful.

The good news for the OP is that it sounds like he's had his expectations met elsewhere so he can return there and be satisfied with his experience next time.


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## RENO (Dec 30, 2013)

Should've cancelled the lessons after the first day and asked for your money back. Then you should've bought lift tickets and taken them with you to ski. How many years of lessons do these kids need? :lol:


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## wa-loaf (Dec 30, 2013)

The fact is a lot of people who have a bad experience don't say anything to anyone and just don't come back. For every NewDaddy there are many more who are dissatisfied and just wont come back there without saying anything to anyone except maybe their friends. So I don't understand why you are all defending Mt Snow so heartily. Sure everyone should speak up when you don't get what you expect or think you payed for, but the reality is most don't. As a business those are the people you need to be worrying about. Maybe someone from Mt Snow will read this thread? maybe not. They should have some sort of social media monitoring system to be able to respond to these things. Kind of like gmcunni's experience.


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## gmcunni (Dec 30, 2013)

wa-loaf said:


> Maybe someone from Mt Snow will read this thread? maybe not. They should have some sort of social media monitoring system to be able to respond to these things. Kind of like gmcunni's experience.



i'm sure it is someone's job at MT snow to monitor social media..  but would  they find this? and would it be interesting enough to bubble up to someone who cares and/or can do something about it?  i agree, many people tend to take what they are given and when unhappy complain to friends, but aren't we all friends here in some weird cosmic internet kind of way?   has mt snow elevated to the status of Magic or Sundown where any perceived negative comment is met with an unbalanced response of hatred and shunning?

regarding my experience, i was surprised, to say the least.. i would suspect the GM of the mountain was not reading AZ (tho he had an account to send me a PM).. but rather someone brought it to his attention.  

if newdaddy really wants the bosses at Mt. Snow to know, go to twitter... #mountsnowsucks or #mountsnow-don'tgo

as for me, i'm itching to get to Mt snow soon, i want to ride the bluebird and ski with my friends up there.


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## drjeff (Dec 30, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> i'm sure it is someone's job at MT snow to monitor social media..  but would  they find this? and would it be interesting enough to bubble up to someone who cares and/or can do something about it?  i agree, many people tend to take what they are given and when unhappy complain to friends, but aren't we all friends here in some weird cosmic internet kind of way?   has mt snow elevated to the status of Magic or Sundown where any perceived negative comment is met with an unbalanced response of hatred and shunning?
> 
> regarding my experience, i was surprised, to say the least.. i would suspect the GM of the mountain was not reading AZ (tho he had an account to send me a PM).. but rather someone brought it to his attention.
> 
> ...



I know a bunch of Mount Snow folks, in many departments do frequent AZ from time to time.

As for the GM, she was busy clearing lifts this morning and I'm sure will be running lift lines, clearing tables in the cafeteria and probably checking the cleanliness of a bathroom or 2 today - she is one of the most hands on GM's in all of the ski industry

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app


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## wa-loaf (Dec 30, 2013)

gmcunni said:


> i'm sure it is someone's job at MT snow to monitor social media..  but would  they find this? and would it be interesting enough to bubble up to someone who cares and/or can do something about it?  i agree, many people tend to take what they are given and when unhappy complain to friends, but aren't we all friends here in some weird cosmic internet kind of way?   has mt snow elevated to the status of Magic or Sundown where any perceived negative comment is met with an unbalanced response of hatred and shunning?
> 
> regarding my experience, i was surprised, to say the least.. i would suspect the GM of the mountain was not reading AZ (tho he had an account to send me a PM).. but rather someone brought it to his attention.
> 
> ...



There are services that can send you a notice anytime your name pops up online whether a blog post, forum post, facebook, etc ... not to mention this is a NE oriented ski forum they should be following things here some. And yes calling a company out on Twitter seems to be the way force their hand in customer service these days.


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## doublediamond (Dec 30, 2013)

BenedictGomez said:


>



This steak still has marks where the jockey hit it!


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