# Bears, Canisters, etc



## Bergamo (Oct 20, 2006)

It has been awhile...a Rip van Winkle while...since I last hiked and backpacked in the Whites. As I browse the various boards, I read about Bear Canisters. Back then, I hung the food bag some distance from camp and let it be. Have the bears become more aggressive in the Whites? In the Green Mountains? In upper New York state? Thank you in advance for your feedback.


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## David Metsky (Oct 20, 2006)

In the Whites and Greens, no they are not generally needed.  Hanging food is generally fine, and some backcountry campsites and shelters down low (like 13 Falls and Ethan Pond) have metal bear boxes.

In the Adirondack High Peaks they are not only needed, they are required by the DEC.  Hanging isn't enough, the bears have figured that out long ago.  You are required to bring bear cannisters is the High Peaks in the summer months and it's probably a good idea up there at other times and further away from the HP.

 -dave-


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## Bergamo (Oct 21, 2006)

David, Thank You. I read your posts on this board and the other one. You have a very engaging personality on the boards.

I looked at the internet sites of the various local equipment stores. Bear Canisters sell for  $ 65-70. Is there a brand or type the members of this board recommend?


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## Mike P. (Oct 22, 2006)

From the ADK website:

From April 1-November 30 it is mandatory for campers in the Eastern High Peaks to use bear-resistant canisters to store all food, food containers, garbage and toiletries.   Be advised the DEC has removed the ‘bear cables'.


For a DEC Bear-Resistant Canister Fact Sheet click here.
Canisters are available to purchase and rent at ADK's High Peaks Information Center, for sale at ADK's Lake George Member Services Center, and for sale and to rent at several other local retailers. There is a limited supply of rental canisters; call ahead to reserve (518-523-3441).


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## David Metsky (Oct 23, 2006)

Bergamo said:


> I looked at the internet sites of the various local equipment stores. Bear Canisters sell for  $ 65-70. Is there a brand or type the members of this board recommend?


I've never needed one in the Whites, which is my main stomping ground, so I haven't bought one.  If I headed back to the Daks I'd probably get a Bear Vault or Garcia but I haven't used either so let's see if someone has personal experience with them.

Another option is the Ursack, which is basically a kevlar bag.  Reviewers are mixed, some love the weight savings while others don't think it does the same job.

 -dave-


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## cbcbd (Oct 23, 2006)

I have the week-sized Bear Vault and have been happy with it (no bears have eaten my food in the Daks yet).


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## catskills (Oct 27, 2006)

Here is one from EMS ffor $66.95.    I believe you can also rent them in the Adirondacks.


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## Bergamo (Oct 27, 2006)

Does the requirement for canisters in the Daks mean that bears often come across humans ? Where do folks camp? In specific shelters with fencing and chains, and other protectors I never saw in the White Mountains?


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## Mike P. (Oct 28, 2006)

No Fencing & chains, they do have more lean-to's than the Whites, a few cabins around some DEC Interior Outpost.  IMO the cannister regulation is a result of poor food hanging habits at a couple of heavily congested areas, Marcy Dam & Lake Colden areas.  Neither require a lot of elevation gain to get too, Marcy Dam is just thee miles in on a wide well groomed trail that has minor ups & downs & overall gains virtually no elevation.  It may be the perfect place for car campers to try backpacking for the first time.  

Novice backpackers food storing methods usually are not perfect.  At least the bears are not as smart as the Sierra bears, those bears have figured out how to break into cars to get food.


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## catskills (Oct 31, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> IMO the cannister regulation is a result of poor food hanging habits at a couple of heavily congested areas, Marcy Dam & Lake Colden areas.   It may be the perfect place for car campers to try backpacking for the first time.


Mike you got the area right but its not the campers poor food hanging habits.  My personal experience between Avalanche Lake and Lake Colden,  the bears in this area have learned a lot about getting food out of the trees.  In my case I hung the food between two trees with half inch nylon rope.  Rope is tied to trees a good 40 feet from the food.  This 400 lbs male was able to follow the rope two trees over from the food and stand up and chew through rope and drop the food bag 40 feet away.  When my 12 year old son and I woke up in the morning, we found this huge bear still eating our food.  We chased him away by banging two metal pots together.  He only left us one hot choclolate.  Bears don't share.  My son had the hot chocolate and we hiked out.  I asked the DEC guy up there and he told me I should have had a dark rope to support the food and a white rope as a diversion.  :roll: 

Also incidents of campers taking their backpacks off to go down to the stream to get some water.   They turn around to see bear walking off with the entire backpack.  :-(


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## David Metsky (Oct 31, 2006)

But the reason those bears hung around long enough to learn those techniques is due to poor food hanging by campers.  In places where people practice good food storage the bears never associate humans with food, they don't hang around and get rewarded for their efforts..  They need to be habituated to humans to spend the time learning that bear lines mean food.  It's a process  that started with inexperienced hikers not storing their food properly.  At this point, what usually works as proper food hanging elsewhere is no longer sufficient in the Daks because the bears are "smarter than the average bear."

Hopefully the bear cannisters will prevent the bears from being rewarded for their efforts.  Over  time, they will go elsewhere and the next generation of bears won't learn how to follow ropes.  But at this point, with the history in the High Peaks, I don't see the rules being relaxed any time soon.

 -dave-


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## Mike P. (Oct 31, 2006)

While on the AT in SW MA on Sunday I stopped by a couple of the shelters & they have bear (& mouse) boxes at the sites.  This area is also frequently by many backpackers, some of which are just learning about food storage so these bears may be a little smarter too.  Eastern Bears haven't started to break into cars yet though.


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## cbcbd (Oct 31, 2006)

Mike P. said:


> While on the AT in SW MA on Sunday I stopped by a couple of the shelters & they have bear (& mouse) boxes at the sites.  This area is also frequently by many backpackers, some of which are just learning about food storage so these bears may be a little smarter too.  Eastern Bears haven't started to break into cars yet though.


Sites in the CT AT have also been "installing" bear proof boxes for people where they didn't have/need? them last year.

Another note on the ADK bears - For a long time the park had a cable going across the Marcy Dam, where people would hang their food over the water. This system had worked for a while and in the last few years the bears have learned how to get to that food. In this case it wasn't really the fault of novice backpackers or poor bear-baggers, it was just a case of bears adapting.


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## Bergamo (Oct 31, 2006)

Why are the bears in the Whites not an issue?


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## David Metsky (Nov 1, 2006)

Bergamo said:


> Why are the bears in the Whites not an issue?


Because the bear and human camping density isn't as bad.  The backcountry caretakers tend to help keep things cleaner at the shelters.  The huts practiced good practices.  It could happen in the Whites, but they are putting in bear boxes at the shelters now to help keep the problem from happening.

 -dave-


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## Bergamo (Nov 1, 2006)

I thought it was clean back then: last overnight trip on the trails was in 1979. (Anyone born back then?) So, the Whites have  experienced very good backcountry practices.


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## Mike P. (Nov 2, 2006)

Born, I was graduating high school that year.  The USFS has moved or closed backcountry campsites that had a lot of impact & may have been easier to reach & also has many roadside campsites/campgrounds (Tripoli Road, Hancock, to name just a couple)  that you can store food inside your car.

Between the huts, roadside camping, shelters & several approaches to the major peaks of under 10 miles Round trip, impact I think is more spread out.  In the ADK's it's a 15 mile day hike to bag the State's Highpoint (It's not a hard 15 really but it's still 15 miles) & there are not many approaches to the main peaks so camping to some peakbaggers  (& hikers who may not be pursuing a list but still think a weekend should include a summit or two)  is a better more relaxing weekend tehn hiking 20 miles in one day.

Getting to Marcy Dam is about as hard as getting to the now closed Franconia Falls campsite (now I'm not sure that is the actual name of the site but it's now moved across the river) & that area was plagued by a bear that did not really shun humans like other bears for many years.  (Brutus) 

I'm also tempted to say that many CT & MA hikers who might want to try backpacking may consider the AT in their states which offer 2-4 mile hikes over easier terrain to shelters or platforms & still have nice views close by.  I don't hear much about NY & NJ hikers hitting the AT in NY or NJ for an overnight or long weekend, I believe they do this in either CT, the Catskills or ADK's.  They do travel to NH but you probably wouldn't drive all that way for your first or 2nd backpacking trip.


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