# Covid Vaccine



## dblskifanatic (Apr 26, 2021)

So I have not been sick for years not even a cold.  The last time that I was really sick was about 5 years ago.  Throughout the Covid restrictions, my wife and I have not worried and traveled on 10 flights, Been out of the country and a to whole bunch of states.  We have been outside doing things for the most part with the exception of having eaten at restaurants multiple times per week since last June and having been to a hand full on indoor concert events.  We have met with friends and family in small groups and even recently got to visit my mom who is 91.  Final point - I am a no flu vaccine person.

That being said, I am scheduling my vaccination and I feel anxiety!  My concerns are 1) Long term effects, 2) Side effects after vaccination, 3) I do not know enough about the vaccine.  Some people I know had arm pain and that was it.  Others had severe head aches, fever, and/or fatigue.  I do not want any of them since I do not like feeling miserable.  I am relatively healthy and active with no pre-existing conditions so if I were to get covid I would recover (that's not a 100% thing though), which how my wife and i are living our lives.  If I get it I will not be an Announce it on FB type or wear a pin showing that - seems like social media subscribers want people to know.

The news reported that 22% do not want it and 15% or so are still not sure.

Have others felt this way or was it a no brainer and everyone else is doing it?


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## abc (Apr 26, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> Have others felt this way or was it a no brainer and everyone else is doing it?


Some are the former. Some are the latter. 

I know that doesn't help. But just to say you're not alone. Not even a minority. 

But one story I can share. My physical therapist, who resisted taking a flu shot despite working in a hospital, decided to take the Covid vaccine shot. So I was surprised and asked her why. Turns out, she HAD Covid early last year in the first wave. She said it was such a miserable experience she doesn't want to get it again. 

That's why she's taking the Covid vaccine shot despite all her past misgiving with vaccines in general. And even though she's not 100% positive about the new Covid vaccine, she decided she'll accept the risk of whatever the vaccine's side effect, long term or immediate, over the risk of getting Covid again! She said all those uncertainty are still better than the risk of getting Covid a second time. 

My cardiologist also got Covid back in March of last year. He also took the vaccine shot. He said similar thought process. 

I guess the cool and calm rational "calculation" of the relative risk of the vaccine vs the risk of catching Covid are really only for those who never got sick. For people who gotten sick from it once, they're far more motivated to get the vaccine shot. 

To be honest, I'm totally floored by that sentiment.


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## JimG. (Apr 26, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> So I have not been sick for years not even a cold.  The last time that I was really sick was about 5 years ago.  Throughout the Covid restrictions, my wife and I have not worried and traveled on 10 flights, Been out of the country and a to whole bunch of states.  We have been outside doing things for the most part with the exception of having eaten at restaurants multiple times per week since last June and having been to a hand full on indoor concert events.  We have met with friends and family in small groups and even recently got to visit my mom who is 91.  Final point - I am a no flu vaccine person.
> 
> That being said, I am scheduling my vaccination and I feel anxiety!  My concerns are 1) Long term effects, 2) Side effects after vaccination, 3) I do not know enough about the vaccine.  Some people I know had arm pain and that was it.  Others had severe head aches, fever, and/or fatigue.  I do not want any of them since I do not like feeling miserable.  I am relatively healthy and active with no pre-existing conditions so if I were to get covid I would recover (that's not a 100% thing though), which how my wife and i are living our lives.  If I get it I will not be an Announce it on FB type or wear a pin showing that - seems like social media subscribers want people to know.
> 
> ...


I am getting my first shot tomorrow. I feel very much the same way you do and our habits regarding these things are the same.

My only reason to get it is to shut other people up so I don't have to hear from them about why I haven't been vaccinated. And their in lies my greatest fear, that I am getting it to appease others. That usually does not work out well for me. Personally I don't want it.


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## JimG. (Apr 26, 2021)

abc said:


> I guess the cool and calm rational "calculation" of the relative risk of the vaccine vs the risk of catching Covid are really only for those who never got sick. For people who gotten sick from it once, they're far more motivated to get the vaccine shot.
> 
> To be honest, I'm totally floored by that sentiment.


Guess is a good description. Do you have any actual data to back up this guess?

I know several people who have had COVID who see no reason to get vaccinated. Perhaps they had mild cases. I suspect I already had it early last year but because nobody would give me a test then because "I was not sick" I'll never know for sure. At this point I don't care anymore.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 26, 2021)

Having seen what my brother went  through with Covid (only 53) and then what I've dealt with my customers working in healthcare, zero fear and zero nervousness .   I signed up as soon as I was able.  Got my first dose the last week of January. 

Slightly sore arm first shot.  Second had a more severe reaction after about 18 hours, but it only lasted less than a day.  Tired, achy, but no fever.


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## Edd (Apr 26, 2021)

Naturally you’re getting the vaccine so that you don’t get COVID but you’re getting it for others around you just as much. The more unvaccinated people there are, the more opportunity there will be for variants to develop, and eventually the variants could grow vaccine resistant.


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## ScottySkis (Apr 26, 2021)

I got both shots and I drank lotts of water nothing bothered me vaccine shots but I always stay hydrated by drinking on every day 60 to 100 ozenez of H2O


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## mikec142 (Apr 26, 2021)

A couple of thoughts...I have received both doses of Pfizer with no ill effects other than a sore arm.  My wife received Moderna and 24 hours after the second shot, she ran a fever that lasted for a day.  All the anecdotal stories I've heard have been related to fevers and flu like symptoms after the second Moderna shot.  That said, this is anecdotal only.

My two kids now have their second shots as do my parents and my in-laws.  We all spend a lot of time together so this has been a real relief for all of us.  I would say that we all (my extended family) took calculated risks with regard to our behavior.  But now that we are all vaxxed, it feels like a new lease on life.  Even though our lives weren't nearly as upended as others, there was still the feeling of a weight being lifted after we received the vaccines.

As far as not knowing enough about it...I get it and sympathize.  At a certain level, there is an element of trust.  I would say the following.  I don't know what's in a hot dog, but I still eat them.  When I go to the dentist and he says I have a cavity, I don't debate him, I just get it filled.  I'm well versed in the nuances of my profession.  And I'm smart enough to realize I'm not an expert in epidemiology.  So I will listen to the scientists (not the politicians) and trust that they get it right.

I'm sure that I haven't lowered your anxiety level, but I hope that my positive experience with the vaccine helps you in some way.

Just a quick edit (not trying to insert politics or other taboo subjects) to add that the divide in our country...politics, religion, wealth, etc., etc. hasn't helped to raise the trust level for the average citizen which is a shame and leads to those percentages of people who don't want/trust the vaccine.


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## abc (Apr 26, 2021)

JimG. said:


> Do you have any actual data to back up this guess?


Do you? To the contrary?

Don't forget the most famous case, President Trump. He had Covid. Yet he took the Vaccine. Why? He who constantly downplay the virus and the disease. Yet he took the vaccine. He never explain it to anyone. 



> I know several people who have had COVID who see no reason to get vaccinated. Perhaps they had mild cases. I suspect I already had it early last year but because nobody would give me a test then because "I was not sick" I'll never know for sure. At this point I don't care anymore.


If you're "suspecting" you had it, it's either not that severe, or not Covid at all. I felt a sick twice during the 1 year of lock down. But my antibody test came out negative. So I did NOT have it, despite I felt rather strongly I "had it"!

Once the antibody test result came out, it was an easy decision for me.

I had to go to see doctors for a lot of catch-up health checks and such post vaccination.  Not having to worry about it myself, and not having to worry about seeing my 85 year old Mom in the same time frame, was worth the worry of getting the vaccine.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 26, 2021)

abc said:


> I had to go to see doctors for a lot of catch-up health checks and such post vaccination.  Not having to worry about it myself, and not having to worry about seeing my 85 year old Mom in the same time frame, was worth the worry of getting the vaccine.



I am sure she has been vaccinated right?  So she was protected either way.   If someone is vaccinated but you are not like when I got to see my mom where she was and I was not vaccinated.  My mom has the protection not to mention she got Covid at 90 and was asymptomatic.  Tested positive for three weeks in June last year.


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## abc (Apr 26, 2021)

Yes, my Mom got vaccinated long before I qualify. Still, vaccine isn't 100%. So if I get a big load of the virus, it's a bit more risky. 

On the other hand, if all the healthcare workers are vaccinated, I would have nothing to worry about when going to the hospital. But unfortunately, I'm told about 1/3 of them choose not to take the vaccine. 

So, I understand why you're anxious about the vaccination. I was too. But in the end, I'm glad I did it. And after hearing from those who HAD Covid and CHOOSE to get vaccinated, I would have been more convinced of my decision (but I didn't hear about their stories until I already gotten the vaccine. so it's just a confirmation of my decision, not a motivation to get vaccinated)


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## 180 (Apr 26, 2021)

I had Covid in January. Sick for a week, but not knocked down.  No taste for 8 weeks. Feel no need for the vaccine. How many have gotten Covid twice?  Very few. Too many questions about the shot, however, like Jim G the pressue is huge to get vaciinated.


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## deadheadskier (Apr 26, 2021)

180 said:


> I had Covid in January. Sick for a week, but not knocked down.  No taste for 8 weeks. Feel no need for the vaccine. How many have gotten Covid twice?  Very few. Too many questions about the shot, however, like Jim G the pressue is huge to get vaciinated.


Interesting perspective

I mentioned my brother having Covid above.  He was not so "lucky" as you were.  Never hospitalized, but three weeks pretty much bedridden. That was followed by several months of breathing being off and brain fog.  

So for him, the choice on vaccine was twofold.  He wanted to potentially further minimize his chance of getting sick like that again as well as minimize his risk of passing it on to others if he did get sick again.


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## jimk (Apr 27, 2021)

For me, getting the covid vaccine was a no brainer.  I've been getting the flu shot for decades with no ill effects.  One of the motivations I always had was that I didn't want to get the flu while on a ski trip.  Why wouldn't I get vaccinated for something potentially far worse than the flu?
I got the moderna and went skiing the day after both shots.  Had mild arm pain each time.  Got a headache about 24hrs after the second shot, but that could have been the result of being out in the sun all day skiing.  One tylenol took care of the headache.
My wife got the pfizer and was down for a couple days after each shot, achy, tired etc.  She is not particularly fitness oriented or active.  She normally does not get the flu vaccine.  But she was very afraid of covid and that motivated her to get vaccinated.  Psychologically, the vaccine has really helped her get over her fear of catching covid and return to more normal activities like shopping in stores and going to church.
So there are two responses your question/concern.
Also, I like Ed's comment that you are not just getting vaccinated for yourself, but also to help all of society end the pandemic.

PS:  Snowbird was good yesterday:


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## trackbiker (Apr 27, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> My concerns are 1) Long term effects, 2) Side effects after vaccination, 3) I do not know enough about the vaccine.  Some people I know had arm pain and that was it.  Others had severe head aches, fever, and/or fatigue.  I do not want any of them since I do not like feeling miserable.


I would be more worried about the long term affects from the virus than the vaccine. They are studying what they call "Long Haulers" now who experience long term affects from the virus.


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## cdskier (Apr 27, 2021)

trackbiker said:


> I would be more worried about the long term affects from the virus than the vaccine. They are studying what they call "Long Haulers" now who experience long term affects from the virus.



As I was scrolling through the thread this is the exact point I wanted to make before I saw it was already made. It baffles my mind a bit that people are worried about long term effects from a vaccine but not from the virus itself.

I'll be honest, I'm a bit anxious about the side effects from the vaccine itself (but still plan to get it as soon as I'm back in NJ and can get an appointment). But I also have seen first-hand that "young" people are not as unaffected by the virus as people tend to think. My brother and his wife both had COVID last year. They're both in their early to mid 30s. While neither was hospitalized, both said it was terrible and they would never wish it on anyone. My sister-in-law still says things don't always smell/taste right even now a year later. And my brother still says he gets winded sometimes from doing things that wouldn't have bothered him pre-COVID.


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## abc (Apr 27, 2021)

trackbiker said:


> I would be more worried about the long term affects from the virus than the vaccine. They are studying what they call "Long Haulers" now who experience long term affects from the virus.





cdskier said:


> As I was scrolling through the thread this is the exact point I wanted to make before I saw it was already made. It baffles my mind a bit that people are worried about long term effects from a vaccine but not from the virus itself.


Human are preprogrammed to focus on the immediate first. 

Thinking "long term" is a learned behavior. Large percentage of the population never actually master it. So it's not that people actually "worry" about long term effects of the vaccine. They just never comprehend the long term ill-effect of the virus. As a result, they can't fathom the need for vaccine.


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## Not Sure (Apr 27, 2021)

I don't fault anyone for not getting the vaccine after all it's a personal choice and people shouldn't be bullied into a decision.  There have been some serious side effects with people who have underlying health issues or have had Covid . My mother survived it at 95 but I don't think she should get the vaccine  with all her other issues . 
I recently read a story about paralysis in an epileptic patient . I know someone who didn't have  Covid and got the vaccine, she's having motor skill issues months later.
Chances are your not going to have issues but none the less is a shitty choice to be forced to make .

I have a close friend who was diagnosed a week and a half ago ,his girlfriend works for someone who was reckless and irresponsible after having symptoms and told "You look horrible you should go home " he infected three people who work for him .  I'd compare that to drunk driving ....waiting for the lawyers to get involved LOL  . My friend said 2 weeks ago "I won't get it " .  No taste or smell ,spiking fevers and coughing yet ,he's having a tough time ,I'm concerned for him he's a bit overweight.

My last flu shot was probably 4years ago and I had a horrible reaction so I'm nervous about getting my first dose tomorrow .

As for long term who knows but I do remember Vioxx . Time will tell


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## abc (Apr 27, 2021)

For once, I feel strongly about NOT forcing people to take the vaccine.

It's an "emergency" vaccine. Development time was short. So who knows.

But on the other hand, the virus is vicious and extremely easy to spread. Further more, the long term after effect of the virus is not yet fully known, except what we already know is quite a concern. Up to 30% of the survivors still have issues 3(6?) months later.

So take the risk with the virus? Or take a chance of the vaccine? The risk calculation is not trivial.


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## JimG. (Apr 27, 2021)

180 said:


> I had Covid in January. Sick for a week, but not knocked down.  No taste for 8 weeks. Feel no need for the vaccine. How many have gotten Covid twice?  Very few. Too many questions about the shot, however, like Jim G the pressue is huge to get vaciinated.


You get where I'm coming from. I know others who got COVID and recovered no problem, even less severe than you. 

Moot point now, I got my first dose today. Other than a mild sore spot on my arm no biggie.

And while I understand the concern others feel I'm sorry but my personal experiences just don't justify the level of fear I see. I think it's ridiculous.


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## JimG. (Apr 27, 2021)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> I don't fault anyone for not getting the vaccine after all it's a personal choice and people shouldn't be bullied into a decision.


Agree about the bullying. Lot's of that especially in our online environment where it's easy to hide behind a keyboard.

The mental issues that will remain from this time in history will never be resolved. People are so damned worried about the stupid virus that everything else is just going to s***.

Glad my kids are out of the public school system.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 28, 2021)

Reading some of the posts, my mom was actually pretty lucky at 90 years old and getting Covid but having little to no symptoms.  It did spread fast for sure - there are 75 resident on the same floor at the nursing home she is in.  54 got covid before they were able to stop the spread (isolated to rooms).  That floor is all end of life and some are not a bit functional.  Amazingly and sadly only 5 lost their lives.  They were all administered the vaccine.

Interesting - Fauci was asked when mask wearing will no longer be needed.  His response was that we would need to be at herd immunity and that will be achieved at 80% vaccinated.  Not sure if that will ever be reached.  the same report showed that 22-25% will likely never get the shot.


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## abc (Apr 28, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> Interesting - Fauci was asked when mask wearing will no longer be needed. His response was that we would need to be at herd immunity and that will be achieved at 80% vaccinated. Not sure if that will ever be reached. the same report showed that *22-25% will likely never get the shot*.


Ah, but you forgot one thing. Those who don't take the vaccine will eventually get infected and become immune. 

So yeah, we'll reach herd immunity, one way or another


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## Nick (Apr 28, 2021)

I got the 1st shot about 2 weeks ago. (Moderna). Sore arm but otherwise no effects. Next one is in ~2 more weeks. I was sort of on the fence with it but I spend a lot of time with my in-laws and wanted to keep them as safe as possible. Honestly if it weren't for them I may have waited for some time to get the shot.


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## Not Sure (Apr 28, 2021)

abc said:


> Ah, but you forgot one thing. Those who don't take the vaccine will eventually get infected and become immune.
> 
> So yeah, we'll reach herd immunity, one way or another


Many of those people will be asymptomatic and not even know they had it . I have a friend who scheduled outpatient surgery ,his test came back positive . He had no symptoms at all. 

Just got number 1 Pfizer shot today at a huge clinic ,they said they have 2100 shots scheduled for the day .   The operation is run by a local health network ,I was out in 20 minutes after showing "ID" and scheduling my next shot. 

Ironically I stopped at a Local plumbing supply showroom and half their staff was out after getting their second Moderna shot . 
Maybe pre medicate with Benadryl ?   I've heard a familiar story from my daughter in law a month ago , half the nursing  staff at her facility was down for three days .


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## jimk (Apr 28, 2021)

The situation is very different in SLC vs. Wash DC.  In UT many folks are very chill about the whole thing.  I got my vax shots in a grocery story pharmacy with one other person first shot and about three other persons second shot.  In Wash DC area my wife had to wait in a line with hundreds and go into a huge busy room adjacent to a hospital.  Between staff and people getting shots there must have been 500 people in the room.  I went with her for her second shot.  Demand for the vax in UT is much lower and many are opting out.  People are still concerned, but things are operating more closely to normal in UT, than Wash DC area.


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## dblskifanatic (Apr 29, 2021)

We


Nick said:


> I got the 1st shot about 2 weeks ago. (Moderna). Sore arm but otherwise no effects. Next one is in ~2 more weeks. I was sort of on the fence with it but I spend a lot of time with my in-laws and wanted to keep them as safe as possible. Honestly if it weren't for them I may have waited for some time to get the shot.


 We are in the same boat where we probably would not but we want to travel.  We traveled a lot during Covid and we were fine but we are concerned that a vaccination record may be required in the future.  Even larger events possibly.  We have not visited our mom without vaccination but she had covid and the vaccine..

IDK it is all so messed up!  I walked into a store the other day in NH to buy sneakers and while we were there my wife found a couple wind breakers.  She came to me and asked for me to try it on.  The woman said it is not allowed.  I asked why and she said to reduce risk of trans mission.  So I asked why we can try shoes on - no answer.  I think people make up their own rules.


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## jimk (Apr 30, 2021)

New CNN article that is relevant to this thread:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/health/covid-vaccine-myths-debunked/index.html


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## Bumpsis (May 1, 2021)

jimk said:


> New CNN article that is relevant to this thread:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/health/covid-vaccine-myths-debunked/index.html


Relevant indeed! 
For me getting the COVID vaccine was a no brainer. At this point, I'm two weeks past my 2nd shot.
 I'm 66 with exercise induced asthma issues so the upside of being protected hugely outweighed any possible concerns about the vaccine. Not like I had any to begin with. 

I got familiar with the mRNA vaccine technology and I was happy to see that many years of basic R&D could bring an actual vaccine to reality in a fairly short time.

My concerns are now about people who do not vaccinate and potentially serve as an experimental pool for the virus to create dangerous mutations.


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## zyk (May 2, 2021)

My wife tricked me into getting it...  Good on her.  With a bad panic disorder and a history of anaphylaxis I was reluctant.  Maybe I turn into a zombie in a few years but for now I feel more confident being out in the world.  Just got back from NH and are leaving in a few days to hike Tuckerman.  Would not be doing that if I didn't get the shot.


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## Terry (May 4, 2021)

Got my second phizer shot yesterday morning. Felt a bit achy late afternoon but it passed by evening. This morning just a sore arm.


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## dblskifanatic (May 4, 2021)

So my wife and I bit the bullet and got the first Moderna shot.  We felt a little out of sorts for about a day and my wife for about two days.  No fever or headaches just blah!  We have never been nervous about getting out in fact we got out often and all over the country and out of country as well.  Getting the shot to be able to go do stuff was not our driving factor since we were already living our lives.  Fear of Covid was not the driving factor either.  We felt it was inevitable and society as a whole was going to need proof for one reason or the other so getting it out the the way was our reason.  My brother and my boss both got their second shot (Moderna as well) and got a fever, nausea, headache etc. and lasted 1-2 days.  That is what I do not want and a reason we held off.


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## thetrailboss (May 7, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> So I have not been sick for years not even a cold.  The last time that I was really sick was about 5 years ago.  Throughout the Covid restrictions, my wife and I have not worried and traveled on 10 flights, Been out of the country and a to whole bunch of states.  We have been outside doing things for the most part with the exception of having eaten at restaurants multiple times per week since last June and having been to a hand full on indoor concert events.  We have met with friends and family in small groups and even recently got to visit my mom who is 91.  Final point - I am a no flu vaccine person.
> 
> That being said, I am scheduling my vaccination and I feel anxiety!  My concerns are 1) Long term effects, 2) Side effects after vaccination, 3) I do not know enough about the vaccine.  Some people I know had arm pain and that was it.  Others had severe head aches, fever, and/or fatigue.  I do not want any of them since I do not like feeling miserable.  I am relatively healthy and active with no pre-existing conditions so if I were to get covid I would recover (that's not a 100% thing though), which how my wife and i are living our lives.  If I get it I will not be an Announce it on FB type or wear a pin showing that - seems like social media subscribers want people to know.
> 
> ...


So I am joining the party here late, but I got my vaccines done last month (Moderna).  My experience, overall, was very good.  The clinic was very well organized and the longest I spent was waiting the 15 minutes after the shot to make sure all was good.  My second shot resulted in a little bit of a burning sensation and I was pretty tired and mildly sick (minor fever, some chills, headache, joint pain) for only a portion of the first 24 hours.  Hell, I was able to ski the afternoon the following day.  Depending upon what vaccine you get, the side effects can vary.  I've heard that Pfizer and Moderna are pretty similar (feeling sick for a day or so).  That is a small price to pay to be able to have things get back to normal.  As to long term effects, from what I have read and seen there is not enough information yet, but considering that Pfizer and Moderna are using mRNA technology I would think that the effects are pretty limited if anything.  So I was really excited to get mine done and feel great a month after.


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## dblskifanatic (May 7, 2021)

Ok first moderna shot, I had minor soreness around shot location.  My wife on the other had had the same but then about 4 days later developed swelling on her arm and a rash from shot site to elbow.  Doctor said there have been many cases where is is a minor allergic reaction but that it should clear up in a 3-4 days.  If not then it becomes a doctor visit.  So we shall see.  She is nervous about the second shot.  Neither one of us have been sick to any degree for a long long time.  So not looking forward to feeling that way.


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## jimk (Jun 11, 2021)

Kind of interesting that about 50% of the approx 3000 players in the NFL have not gotten the vax yet.  


			Why are so many NFL players still reluctant to get vaccinated? League’s union head said it’s not because of a lack of information.
		

Not sure what to make of that?  Is it a demographic thing?  Do strong young people feel like they are safer getting covid than taking a chance at having a bad reaction to the vaccine??


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## JimG. (Jun 11, 2021)

jimk said:


> Kind of interesting that about 50% of the approx 3000 players in the NFL have not gotten the vax yet.
> 
> 
> Why are so many NFL players still reluctant to get vaccinated? League’s union head said it’s not because of a lack of information.
> ...


Or maybe it's a function of the fact that a large percentage of NFL players are black and POC have not been treated well by the medical establishment? Reference the Tuskegee Syphilis study.


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## Not Sure (Jun 12, 2021)

jimk said:


> Kind of interesting that about 50% of the approx 3000 players in the NFL have not gotten the vax yet.
> 
> 
> Why are so many NFL players still reluctant to get vaccinated? League’s union head said it’s not because of a lack of information.
> ...





			COVID-19 and Myocarditis: A Risk for Athletes
		

 There have been some cases caused by the vaccine as well





						CDC confirms 226 cases of myocarditis after COVID-19 vaccination in people 30 and under | AAP News | American Academy of Pediatrics
					






					www.aappublications.org
				





I think it's quite early in the history of this vaccine to know all of the possible side effects . Time will tell but if they don't want the shot fine . I think the NFL is more concerned with $$$$  having possible schedule disruptions that the health of the players .

I gave up on professional sports years ago and don't miss it . I killed my cable before that and at first was an adjustment but it sure is nice to have more time for other things.


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## Rob Forster (Oct 28, 2021)

jimk said:


> Kind of interesting that about 50% of the approx 3000 players in the NFL have not gotten the vax yet.
> 
> 
> Why are so many NFL players still reluctant to get vaccinated? League’s union head said it’s not because of a lack of information.
> ...


Same or similar situation takes place in the NBA if I am not mistaken.


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## mikec142 (Oct 29, 2021)

Rob Forster said:


> Same or similar situation takes place in the NBA if I am not mistaken.


I believe that both the NBA and the NFL are over 90% at this point.


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## jimk (Oct 29, 2021)

I've also heard that some NBA guys have already had covid (some multiple times) and feel they have natural protection without vax.


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## EastCoastScott (Nov 13, 2021)

Some comments here about the vax keeping you from getting the virus didn't age very well.  99% of one college football team was vaccinated and 44 players still tested positive.  It is a personal choice and I understand both sides.  If I'm vaccinated but can still pass it on, I shouldn't look down on the unvaccinated.  This seems more like a therapeutic to me.


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## Edd (Nov 13, 2021)

EastCoastScott said:


> Some comments here about the vax keeping you from getting the virus didn't age very well.  99% of one college football team was vaccinated and 44 players still tested positive.  It is a personal choice and I understand both sides.  If I'm vaccinated but can still pass it on, I shouldn't look down on the unvaccinated.  This seems more like a therapeutic to me.


Football being a close contact sport likely contributed to the spread, along with little regular testing for vaccinated players. To that end, that college is tightening up the testing for players.  Indications are that vaccinated people are less likely to spread than unvaxxed. But, the longer this goes, the more we’ll know.









						Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds
					

British scientists examined how the Pfizer-BioNTech and the AstraZeneca vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection.




					www.nbcnews.com


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## EastCoastScott (Nov 13, 2021)

Edd said:


> Football being a close contact sport likely contributed to the spread, along with little regular testing for vaccinated players. To that end, that college is tightening up the testing for players.  Indications are that vaccinated people are less likely to spread than unvaxxed. But, the longer this goes, the more we’ll know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not at all downplaying the vaccination.  I am just commenting that this is NOT an unvaccinated epidemic.  One country that is 82% vaccinated has now had the highest number of cases.  I just think we need to stop burying our heads in the sand that this vaccination does not stop the spread.  It helps with the symptoms.  We also cannot forget 85% of infected people get mild or no symptoms even when not vaccinated.


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## speden (Nov 13, 2021)

EastCoastScott said:


> Not at all downplaying the vaccination.  I am just commenting that this is NOT an unvaccinated epidemic.  One country that is 82% vaccinated has now had the highest number of cases.  I just think we need to stop burying our heads in the sand that this vaccination does not stop the spread.  It helps with the symptoms.  We also cannot forget 85% of infected people get mild or no symptoms even when not vaccinated.


It seems like you're trying to argue that the vaccines are a failure and pointless, but that's absurd. The death rate has plummeted since the vaccines became widely available. My mother lives in a memory care facility and has several underlying conditions that put her at high risk. She got vaccinated and several months later tested positive with no symptoms. So what? It doesn't mean she shouldn't have bothered to get vaccinated. The vaccine may have saved her from getting very sick or even dying. People that take the flu vaccine still catch the flu, but it makes it less severe, and the mRNA covid vaccines are far superior to the egg grown flu vaccines.

I stopped by the drugstore today (Boston metro area) to pick up a few things and there was a long line of people waiting to get booster shots. Most of them looked younger than 65 so I'd say a lot of people around here are ignoring the CDC advice on not getting a booster. I'm hoping Mass will soon follow the lead of Cali and Colorado and just say anyone who wants a booster should get it. I'm coming up on six months since my last shot and would like to boost up my antibodies before I start hanging out in ski lodges and gondolas.


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## Puck it (Nov 14, 2021)

Edd said:


> Football being a close contact sport likely contributed to the spread, along with little regular testing for vaccinated players. To that end, that college is tightening up the testing for players.  Indications are that vaccinated people are less likely to spread than unvaxxed. But, the longer this goes, the more we’ll know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just FYI 








						Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People
					

A new study from the University of California, Davis, Genome Center, UC San Francisco and the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant...




					www.ucdavis.edu


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## Edd (Nov 14, 2021)

speden said:


> It seems like you're trying to argue that the vaccines are a failure and pointless, but that's absurd. The death rate has plummeted since the vaccines became widely available. My mother lives in a memory care facility and has several underlying conditions that put her at high risk. She got vaccinated and several months later tested positive with no symptoms. So what? It doesn't mean she shouldn't have bothered to get vaccinated. The vaccine may have saved her from getting very sick or even dying. People that take the flu vaccine still catch the flu, but it makes it less severe, and the mRNA covid vaccines are far superior to the egg grown flu vaccines.
> 
> I stopped by the drugstore today (Boston metro area) to pick up a few things and there was a long line of people waiting to get booster shots. Most of them looked younger than 65 so I'd say a lot of people around here are ignoring the CDC advice on not getting a booster. I'm hoping Mass will soon follow the lead of Cali and Colorado and just say anyone who wants a booster should get it. I'm coming up on six months since my last shot and would like to boost up my antibodies before I start hanging out in ski lodges and gondolas.


I got my booster in NH a couple of days ago. I don’t fit into any special category and had no idea if they’d give it to me. Walked into Rite-Aid with no appointment and was out in 20 minutes. 2-3 every day they take walk ins.


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## snoseek (Nov 14, 2021)

I mean yeah the vaccinated can get Covid easy enough, but lets not pretend the consequences are the same. I got my shots, will get a booster soon and am moving on with all this.


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## jimk (Nov 14, 2021)

Got my Moderna booster earlier today.  So far, so good, no reaction except for a little bit of soreness in arm.  As far as I'm concerned, this is more important for ski season than sharpening my skis.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 15, 2021)

I got my Moderna booster Saturday.  Felt a bit tired yesterday, but not achy with flu like symptoms like I did after the second does.  Feel fine this morning except for a sore arm.


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## speden (Nov 16, 2021)

With ski season closing in and covid rates ticking up again in the northeast, I went and got the booster this afternoon. My original shots were Pfizer, so I switched it up and got Moderna for the booster. It seems that Moderna gives a little bit better protection than Pfizer. Bretton Woods posted a photo of the snow guns going, so hopefully I'll be heading up there to pick up my pass soon.


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## Puck it (Nov 16, 2021)

Booster upon booster.  You and I mean the plural will contract the virus as this is not going away. It will be the same as the flu.


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## deadheadskier (Nov 17, 2021)

Puck it said:


> Booster upon booster.  You and I mean the plural will contract the virus as this is not going away. It will be the same as the flu.



I agree with the first part of your statement.  The latter still seems tbd.

The data still tells me the smart choice for the plural is to still get the vaccine plus boosters.  At least for now.

It seems inevitable that we all get it.  Does natural immunity happen when enough people do catch it?  If so, then this is not the same as the flu.  Because natural immunity has never occurred for the flu. 

I've got no problem taking flu shots for the rest of my life.  Perhaps Covid just becomes a mix in ingredient.


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## speden (Nov 17, 2021)

I'm not sure the boosters will be a yearly thing. The antiviral pills that are about to be approved could change things quite a bit. The data so far shows the pills are highly effective if taken early. So that means anti-vaxxers can get bailed out if they get sick, and for the vaccinated you'll also have the pill to fall back on if you do get a symptomatic infection. At that point you might say, let me catch it and if it's mild I'll just build up more natural immunity, and I can take the pill if I need it.

The virus may smolder in the population for a few years, but once all the firewood is wet, the fire could just die out. For the virus to stick around, I feel like it would need to mutate rapidly like the flu does.


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## Puck it (Nov 17, 2021)

There are already four endemic coronaviruses that circle the globe each year and somewhat seasonal.  This will be the fifth. Coronavirus is a type of common cold and mutants pretty well.  That is why rhinoviruses can be fought very well. So your facts assumptions above are incorrect.


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## ALLSKIING (Nov 18, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I got my Moderna booster Saturday.  Felt a bit tired yesterday, but not achy with flu like symptoms like I did after the second does.  Feel fine this morning except for a sore arm.


That gives me hope I was sick as a dog for 30hrs after the 2nd shot.


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## skiur (Nov 25, 2021)

Had my two Pfizer shots in the spring then had covid (asymptomatic but had 2 tests to confirm it) for Halloween so that was basically my booster.


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## abc (Nov 26, 2021)

I didn't have too bad a reaction on my first 2 shots. But the booster really knocked me out!

Nightmare first night, headache and muscle ache day 2 and part of day 3 too.

(I thought about checking my antibody counts before getting my booster. But everybody I know seem to have little to no reaction to their booster so I thought I'll take it just like everybody. Now wish I had done that little bit of test first)

Today is day 4, I'm still tired as a lazy dog in a hot summer day. Not really sick, just exhausted. Just want to close my eyes and sleep...

I think this will be my last booster. I think I'll take my chance with the virus going forward. People who had breakthrough infection had a easier time than I had with my booster.


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## speden (Nov 26, 2021)

I also had a much stronger reaction to the booster than the first two shots. My shoulder got really tender for a couple of days and I had a mild headache. I figure it was because my first two shots were Pfizer and I went with Moderna for the booster. It seems like Moderna has a higher dose of active ingredients in it. But maybe it was because my immunity was already pretty strong so it went after the booster with a vengeance. Anyway the strong reaction makes me feel like I'm well protected now.


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## cdskier (Dec 1, 2021)

Got my booster Monday afternoon (Pfizer). I had a similar but slightly milder "short-term" reaction with the booster as I had after the first shot. In the 5-10 minute window after getting the shot I felt light-headed, broke out into a sweat and almost felt like I was going to pass out. The feeling passed after about a minute or so. After the first shot I had that same reaction, but may have actually passed out for a few seconds. For the 2nd shot I didn't have that reaction, but I also mentioned my reaction to the 1st to them and they put me in a nice relaxing recliner for the shot and the observation period after it...so that may have helped. I've never had this type of reaction with any other shots (i.e. flu shot, TDAP booster, etc). I probably should have brought that up with my doctor a few weeks ago at my physical, but I completely forgot about it. I'd be curious to know if he had any insight into what from this one could cause that.

Longer term reaction I feel like was a bit different with the 3rd compared to either 1st or 2nd. Sore arm was pretty similar among all 3 (probably worst with the 1st). Felt a bit tired yesterday and had a headache most of the day (I don't recall a headache with either of the previous ones). Last night I felt chilled a bit as I was going to sleep (but I felt relatively fine Monday night). Felt ok by this morning. With the 1st and 2nd I recall my brain feeling a bit "foggy" for a few days after the shot. That part didn't happen this time.


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## ctenidae (Dec 8, 2021)

One of my business partners, an MD, summed it up thusly: The potential risks of the vaccine are far smaller than the known risks of getting COVID. There are no known side effects from the vaccines that are anywhere near at least one known effect of the virus.

The biggest trouble across the board is the politicization of the vaccine. Within societal bounds, yes, you should maybe have some choice. You don't with mumps, rubella, scarlet fever, whooping cough, polio, smallpox, and a whole bunch of others, but I suppose there's an argument to be made for not requiring vaccination for a highly infectious and potentially deadly disease. Many people who are against the vaccine do not have a reasoned position re the vaccine itself, instead it's some vague talking points about personal freedom and liberty. If someone doesn't want to get it for good valid reasons, OK, that's a discussion. If they've instead been bullied by misinformation and political activists into not getting the vaccine, then I'd say that's as bad as, if not immensely worse than, getting "bullied" by all the so-called doctors and scientists and experts and such into taking the vaccine.

I do think the perception of a level of fear has been created by people with a right-leaning political agenda. It's interesting that one common line of attack against the vaccine hinges on making people think they're wimps for taking it, for being concerned about COVID which, the argument goes, isn't all that big a deal. Don't be a wimp and go getting a shot because you're scared of some big bad virus that's maybe all a hoax, right? But a 2x2 logic square would tell you to take the vaccine- if it works or doesn't hurt, you're better off with it. So the only reason not to take the vaccine is because you're afraid of some side effect. Wimp.


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## ctenidae (Dec 8, 2021)

Puck it said:


> Booster upon booster.  You and I mean the plural will contract the virus as this is not going away. It will be the same as the flu.


I think you're probably right - before long the pandemic will just be endemic.

I predict that within a month, February at the latest, you won't see "booster" anymore. Instead it will just be the "third dose." The thing about novel viruses is we don't know anything about them, so initial conclusions are likely to be wrong. There were a lot of issues in the overall response to the pandemic, both here and globally. The biggest blunder, I think, is the poor handling of information and communication. The political environment certainly fed into that, amplifying any mistake far beyond reality. 

It wasn't known if it was airborne, so no need to start a panic rush for PPE when healthcare workers need it for sure. Then it was established as airborne and we had enough PPE flowing so mask guidance was changed. Vaccines typically reduce the viral load significantly, so that was the expectation here. Didn't turn out to be the case, because this virus has some tricks up its sleeve, so the guidance has changed. It wasn't known how long vaccine or infectious immunity would last, so they set up the initial doses and had to wait to see how long it lasted. We'll find out in 6-8 months if the booster sticks, and guidance will likely change. 

None of this is any great failing on science's part. In fact, it's exactly what's supposed to happen. The vaccine doesn't prevent all spread, and doesn't prevent all infections, but it does nearly eliminate the chance you die or get severely ill, which adds up "worth it" in my book.


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## abc (Dec 9, 2021)

ctenidae said:


> The biggest blunder, I think, is the poor handling of information and communication.


When you say "blunder", it sounded like someone (or more than one) made some conscious decision on "how to handle" the information and communication. But I don't think that's ever the case. Politicians rarely "handle information". But they do "communicate" constantly. That's their being. And the media provides the platform. Only what they "communicate" often had nothing to do with the "information". 

What I'm seeing is politicians "communicate" with their foot in their mouth half of the time! And the media shove that foot further in till any wiggle room can be eliminated!

The science is simple. "We don't know". But ask any politician to admit that? They would see it as suicidal. The media is even worse, they have to pretend they know more than the rest of us. So "we don't know" is always followed by some "expert opinions" pull out of thin air. So while the "information" is "don't know yet", the "communication" is... depending on your social political perspective.

It's been going on for so long the population can't believe anyone "doesn't know" anything at all. There's always an answer to every question. Even if that answer is totally baseless. 

So, instead of "blunder" by specific individual on specific information, the airway is simply filled with junks. 

We're all equally guilty of that. We're here speculating, with no access to raw data. And even if we do have access to data, who would put the time in to understand it? Our only excuse is, we know we're doing it for entertainment. But many here are acting like they're serious!


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## JimG. (Dec 9, 2021)

Simple solution...

Ski more, talk less.


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## drjeff (Dec 9, 2021)

Simple thing that BOTH sides of the politcial aisle need to do. 

Some on the right need to just get the jab

Some on the left need to take their masks off. especailly for just about all of the school aged kids in class. And have their been ANY documented deaths from the Omicron Variant, in the entire world, yet? Because based on the spin its being given you'd think that this variant is pure doomsday the last few weeks since it's name hit the media cycle

While the majority of both politcail leanings get this, there certainly are some fringe folks on both sides who have seemingly lost the ability (arguably some may of never had it) to think critically about thimgs and not just take their favorite media sourced narrative as absolute!


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## abc (Dec 10, 2021)

drjeff said:


> While the majority of both politcail leanings get this, there certainly are some some fringe folks on both sides who have seemingly lost the ability (arguably some may of never had it) to think critically about thimgs and not just take their favorite media sourced narrative as absolute!


Sadly, I don't think your assessment of majority vs fringe is right. I found far too many people can't think critically, whatever their political leaning. 

It doesn't help the media keeps on telling people they're wrong in using their common sense! 



drjeff said:


> Some on the right need to just get the jab


I move in a largely "left" circle (ok, center left). It's shocking for me to find out how many of them still haven't got the jab!

Because of the "echo chamber" effect, the vaccine hesitant on the left stayed silent. But with the vaccine requirement to enter indoor space (restaurant/gym) being actively enforced, those who hasn't got the jab are finally exposed! (that said, they're typically not antivaxers. They are finally getting off their butt for their jabs. Late but better than never)


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## ctenidae (Dec 10, 2021)

The fringes of both sides are louder and more powerful than usual, for sure. The worst part is the "leaders" at the fringes are far better, and more cynical, critical thinkers than the people they (mis)lead.

To me, the vaccine calculus is pretty easy - getting it is the lower risk, low effort option. It's not politics, it's logic. 

Masks get a bit more complicated, but I lean towards the "personal liberty" side. Not because I think there's some freedom being trampled but because I'm willing to make risk assessments as I go. If I'm the only person for 20 feet in a store, I'm less likely to wear a mask. I'm fine in a restaurant that has a few tables, but get less comfortable when it suddenly fills up with a lot of talking people. If store staff is all wearing masks, I'll wear a mask. If I'm tired, or thinking about something else, I'll usually default to wearing a mask.

My wife  just wears a mask as a matter of course and to err on the side of caution. I think she's waiting for me to get COVID so she can say "told you so."


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## abc (Dec 10, 2021)

ctenidae said:


> The fringes of both sides are louder and more powerful than usual, for sure. The worst part is the "leaders" at the fringes are far better, and more cynical, critical thinkers than the people they (mis)lead.


Nah. Those "leaders" are just more self-righteous. They think they know with strong conviction. It's not entirely their "fault" that so many others defer to these "leaders" in critical thinking. 

I do fear individual rights are in danger of being trampled in some of the questionable "mandates". I have my personal preferences (triple jabbed, wear mask ONLY when REQUIRED). But I fully understand my preferences aren't entirely/fully supported by data, as data don't exist to support or refute some of the practices. That said, I'm not lending my voice to the chorus of anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers who refuse for illogical reason, or worse, blatantly political motivations.


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2021)

I wonder what the situation, with respect to COVID would be like, if (and I fully understand that this is pure fantasy world stuff here) politicians stayed out of it, and the media just reported objectively on it?

My guess is that things would be quite different on so many fronts, in a better way, and that likely sums up so many of the issues going on in this country. It's not as much about the actual "problem" as it is about the various folks telling us about the problem


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## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2021)

I think people assign too much blame to the messengers and not enough blame on the morons who lack common sense.


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## abc (Dec 10, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I think people assign too much blame to the messengers and not enough blame on the morons who lack common sense.





abc said:


> It doesn't help the media keeps on telling people they're wrong in using their common sense!


When you have someone telling you your common sense is wrong for decades, guess what level of confidence you have on your common sense? 

Isn't it easier to "believe" in some self-righteous talking head instead?


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## deadheadskier (Dec 10, 2021)

Not for me, no.


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## Edd (Dec 10, 2021)

Always in search of a bogeyman stealing your rights, right wing media zeroed in on vaccinations, masks, whatevs..  Bad choice, unhelpful. That’s one single thing everyone should have agreed upon.


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## drjeff (Dec 10, 2021)

Edd said:


> Always in search of a bogeyman stealing your rights, right wing media zeroed in on vaccinations, masks, whatevs..  Bad choice, unhelpful. That’s one single thing everyone should have agreed upon.



If one is also being honest, they will remember that many a politician on the left, as well as some in the Media, expressed their skepticism and resistance initially prior to the 2020 elections as the vaccines neared approval about taking them because of who was President while the vaccines were being developed.

The politicization of COVID for a slew of reasons by BOTH parties is frankly disgusting, and likely to some extent has made the entire pandemic worse than it needed to be in this country.

To think that one party got it right and the other wrong based on one's ideological preferences, as some do, is just example #101 of why the political climate, which unfortunately is more about Caucus before Country now, is so messed up


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## Edd (Dec 11, 2021)

drjeff said:


> If one is also being honest, they will remember that many a politician on the left, as well as some in the Media, expressed their skepticism and resistance initially prior to the 2020 elections as the vaccines neared approval about taking them because of who was President while the vaccines were being developed.
> 
> The politicization of COVID for a slew of reasons by BOTH parties is frankly disgusting, and likely to some extent has made the entire pandemic worse than it needed to be in this country.
> 
> To think that one party got it right and the other wrong based on one's ideological preferences, as some do, is just example #101 of why the political climate, which unfortunately is more about Caucus before Country now, is so messed up


I was speaking specifically about right wing media and you did your false equivalency thing and pulled in politicians too and changed the topic a bit, but sure.


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## abc (Dec 11, 2021)

Edd said:


> Always in search of a bogeyman stealing your rights, right wing media zeroed in on vaccinations, masks, whatevs..  Bad choice, unhelpful. *That’s one single thing everyone should have agreed upon.*


No, I don't agree.

I'm thankful there're people constantly "in search of bogeyman stealing your rights"! I may not agree with their chosen bogeyman. And I definitely disagree with their "zeroed in on vaccination and masks". But I appreciate there're opposing voices to any blanket restrictions. Government overreach is a constant bogeyman that needs to be guard against



> I was speaking specifically about right wing media and you did your false equivalency thing and pulled in politicians too and changed the topic a bit, but sure.


What you call "false equivalency", I see it every bit as real.


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## JimG. (Dec 11, 2021)

Right wing/left wing this sh*t don't fly.

We're willfully making a mess out of this country. Nobody is going to care about left/right when we're all speaking Chinese.

There I said it.


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## drjeff (Dec 11, 2021)

Edd said:


> I was speaking specifically about right wing media and you did your false equivalency thing and pulled in politicians too and changed the topic a bit, but sure.


Until one can readily acknowledge that at times their own preferred ideological media sources are contributors to the problem we're in now with political division, then they're part of the problem rather than trying to push towards improvement...


Maybe the seemingly now inevitable mega reset that CNN is likely to go through in the next few weeks, will help bring about a pivot towards the needed media middle that is lacking now.


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## Richard Lineback (Feb 11, 2022)

drjeff said:


> Until one can readily acknowledge that at times their own preferred ideological media sources are contributors to the problem we're in now with political division, then they're part of the problem rather than trying to push towards improvement...
> 
> 
> Maybe the seemingly now inevitable mega reset that CNN is likely to go through in the next few weeks, will help bring about a pivot towards the needed media middle that is lacking now. Here is what I recommend!


The good news: It'll likely be over by March, maybe February, and omicron may be the most infectious form this virus is able to take (it's already the most infectious virus known it appears). And in that case, it will continue to dominate future mutations as they occur while, perhaps becoming even less capable of causing damage to the host.


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## hammer (Feb 16, 2022)

jerrymor said:


> How many boosters will we have? What are the opinions?



Hoping just one a year...I had all kinds of shots years ago in the military, and I never had a reaction as strong as I had to the 2nd shot and booster.


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## Edd (Feb 16, 2022)

hammer said:


> Hoping just one a year...I had all kinds of shots years ago in the military, and I never had a reaction as strong as I had to the 2nd shot and booster.


I had a ton of shots in the military also, including ones for anthrax. Strangely, they didn’t ask me about my feelings about vaccines.


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## dyn365bcpricing (May 25, 2022)

nice


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## darent (Nov 10, 2022)

Edd said:


> I had a ton of shots in the military also, including ones for anthrax. Strangely, they didn’t ask me about my feelings about vaccines.


me too, they just lined us up and hit us in both arms using pneumatic guns, same needles for every one, i guess that's what lost my concern about vaccines


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