# Ideal ski towns for the future factoring in all issues?



## mikec142 (Mar 17, 2021)

This topic came up in a different thread.  Although I still have a decent way to go, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on great places to settle down after the kids are in college and in retirement. Some of the obvious ones to me haven't been affordable in years so I'm curious about up and coming or alternative type places.  Places like Park City, Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, etc. are just plain unaffordable these days.  

I mentioned Saratoga Springs, NY.  It's probably on the expensive side if you live right in town, but to me, it has a lot going for it.  It's a college town so it remains young and vibrant.  It has a bustling downtown area full of restaurants, shops, and bars.  The track makes things really fun and interesting in the summer.  The performing arts center gets great shows.  Albany is 30 minutes away for bigger city things and an airport.  Quick access to outdoor recreation and Gore is one hour away.


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## jimk (Mar 17, 2021)

Every place has it's pros and cons.  I know that if you are looking at a 2nd home or retirement home near skiing you need to think hard about what it's like there during the offseason too.  For example, I've spent a lot of time in Utah the last few years and have some notions of moving there.  If you'd asked me where I'd go five years ago I would have quickly said Park City or nearby.  Now that I've been out there quite a bit I actually find SLC and suburbs of pretty high interest because they have a much milder spring and fall than Park City and Heber City.  You get a long warm season with good biking and golfing, yet are still near great skiing/snow during winter. 

I swear, the winters in SLC are milder in many ways than the winters in Wash DC metro area.  SLC may have more snowy days, but also many random 55-60 deg sunny days all during the winter.

PS:  this is a crazy time in vacation real estate with it booming.  I've been wrong before, but it's probably a good time to patiently watch for a while and see how things shake-out in the post covid environment.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

eastern winters are brutal. in my experience SLC and Denver both stay pretty mild most of the time. the elevation gains to get up to the skiing are pretty major.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> eastern winters are brutal. in my experience SLC and Denver both stay pretty mild most of the time. the elevation gains to get up to the skiing are pretty major.


So is the traffic.


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## mikec142 (Mar 17, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> So is the traffic.


On the east coast?  For sure.  My concern about SLC and it's burbs would be the traffic getting to LCC and BCC.

But again, a major city like SLC has a lot of offer.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

he was saying the traffic in denver and slc to ski is brutal, and it is. population growth outpacing infrastructure.


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## drjeff (Mar 17, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> This topic came up in a different thread.  Although I still have a decent way to go, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on great places to settle down after the kids are in college and in retirement. Some of the obvious ones to me haven't been affordable in years so I'm curious about up and coming or alternative type places.  Places like Park City, Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, etc. are just plain unaffordable these days.
> 
> I mentioned Saratoga Springs, NY.  It's probably on the expensive side if you live right in town, but to me, it has a lot going for it.  It's a college town so it remains young and vibrant.  It has a bustling downtown area full of restaurants, shops, and bars.  The track makes things really fun and interesting in the summer.  The performing arts center gets great shows.  Albany is 30 minutes away for bigger city things and an airport.  Quick access to outdoor recreation and Gore is one hour away.


Arguably, if you are considering the Saratoga area, I would even throw in a bit further North in the Glens Falls/Queensbury area as well.

You have all the Saratoga features roughly 20 minutes away, you have the Lake George region less than 20 minutes away, you have some redevelopment in and around the original mill town heritage of Glens Falls, you have for local, quick skiing, West Mountain right there, as well as close to the ADK's and Green Mountains.

Out West, the Park City area has always caught my wife's and my interest as a potential retirement location, but even if you get down into KImball Junction it certainly can be on the pricey side  We have also thought of the Bozeman Montana area as that area has been under a bit of a renaissance over the last decade or so and is becoming more than just a gateway to either the Northern Entrance of Yellowstone National Park as well as the Big Sky region


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## NYDB (Mar 17, 2021)

I've had a place in southern VT for coming up on 25 years now.  I plan on moving on once the kids are grown up and the length of the car ride  for a weekend trip is no longer the primary consideration.  It just doesn't snow as much there anymore.  Or maybe I should say it seems to rain more. 

I don't know if another place further north might be the ticket.  Sugarbush?  Maybe Saddleback?  I like the stowe area but Vail ownership makes it unappealing. 


I also always think about getting a place in the interior of BC.  At one of the lesser known areas.    Someplace with great mountain biking too.  there are a bunch. 

Idaho seems like it has a few options as well. 

I agree it just seems like its too late for places like SLC or Jackson.  

I've also been toying with the idea of just AirBNBing retirement skiing.  2 weeks here, 2 weeks there, etc.  More trips to Europe, etc.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

i dont really know anything about it, but i hear that boise is kind of cool, with a fairly young and very healthy outdoorsy population


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## snoseek (Mar 17, 2021)

#westslopebestslope


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## abc (Mar 17, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I've also been toying with the idea of just AirBNBing retirement skiing. 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there, etc. More trips to Europe, etc.


1 year here, another year there...


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

a friend does that now. he's not retired, just spoiled and out of touch. 

6 months in Mexico, 6 months in Chamonix, 4 months in Japan, 1 month at Burning Man, come 'home' to NYC for 3 months, etc.

he's been in Tulum for all of COVID. its taxed our friendship. there's a huge community of ex-pats in tulum behaving like peter pans and as if covid doesn't exist.


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## jimk (Mar 17, 2021)

The grass is always greener, or I should say the slopes are always whiter.  Some of my Utahn friends dream of Grand Targhee or even little Anthony Lakes, OR for crowd avoidance.  

I'm still quite content with LCC on a sunny day when there is no powder frenzy, April and May can be pretty dang awesome, small crowds, great spring snow, and good apres ski tailgating weather too.  Of course, the best is a sneaky weekday when they predict 2 or 3" of snow and get 8 or 10.  This happens several times a winter. Catches the locals off guard, few take the day off and vacationers and retirees rule the roost.


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## snoseek (Mar 17, 2021)

Carson city, Ogden, grand junction, Montrose, Reno. All close enough to good skiing but far enough to not have to pay ski town prices


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## jimk (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> a friend does that now. he's not retired, just spoiled and out of touch.
> 
> 6 months in Mexico, 6 months in Chamonix, 4 months in Japan, 1 month at Burning Man, come 'home' to NYC for 3 months, etc.
> 
> he's been in Tulum for all of COVID. its taxed our friendship. there's a huge community of ex-pats in tulum behaving like peter pans and as if covid doesn't exist.


I had some interesting chairlift conversations during my recent three week stay in UT.  My modus operandi was to ride the quad chairs with one other person, each of us sitting on the far ends of the lift with masks up.  One of the memorable chats was with a guy about age 35 who lived and worked in Philly.  We got going on the pandemic and he admitted that 2020-21 has been the *best* year of his life.  He's been working remotely the whole time and has taken frequent ski trips while working remotely.  He mentioned making a lengthy stay in Miami when his work team didn't even know he wasn't in Philly.  He was an example of a white collar person doing well, when we all know many on the lower end of the scale have suffered great economic hardship.  

This dichotomy reminded me of stories my Dad used to tell about the 1930s.  He grew up in Quincy/Weston area of MA during the Great Depression, but had few memories of hard times.  His father had a good job with Kellogg cereal company.  They lived in a big house and my grandfather always drove a nice car.  Cereal was one of those things that sold very well during the Depression, sort of like how grocery stores have done well during covid.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 17, 2021)

So I would not look at ski towns - real estate prices are nuts and locals can not even afford it.  We have been in Colorado for 5 years but moved and are planning on returning and are looking at places that are more remote but not to an extreme.  We also want some land to have horses so a place like Fairplay in Colorado seems to fit the bill for us.  There are others areas like that that are 30-40 minutes from skiing in this case Breck.  If I chose a town it would be Dillon/Silverthorne CO - that is in the middle of much of Colorado's ski country.

We lived in Colorado Springs which was nice since we were not committed to I70 but it was 2 hours to Breck the back way, hence why 30-40 is no big deal.  Denver is still a consideration for a few years but you become committed to I70 and need to plan accordingly.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 17, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Carson city, Ogden, grand junction, Montrose, Reno. All close enough to good skiing but far enough to not have to pay ski town prices



Our son and his wife just moved to Ogden and he is young, well 25.  Going to school and working in Sundance as a sous chef.  He decided to start now and live there while he can get after it!


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## jaytrem (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i dont really know anything about it, but i hear that boise is kind of cool, with a fairly young and very healthy outdoorsy population


I remember the first time I was in Boise I saw some house prices (at least 15 years ago).  Couldn't believe how low they were.  I did look not too long ago and they didn't seem as crazy cheap anymore.  That being said, Bogus is real nice and you also have Tamarack and Brundage right up the road.  So good call.


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## ss20 (Mar 17, 2021)

I'll be moving out west this fall.  Even with all the traffic woes it's tough to beat the skiing options of SLC and you can't beat the housing prices of the area.  At this moment I'd like to work at Deer Valley or Sundance to escape the LCC traffic, although Alta/Snowbird has always been the dream.  Midweek tho it doesn't seem like its any problem to get up there.  

Also looking at Carson City, NV at the moment.  30 minutes to Heavenly and 45 minutes to Northstar.  Cash in on those inflated CA wages.  

I wouldn't touch Colorado with a ten foot pole.  My understanding is that I-70 traffic makes LCC/BCC look like a Sunday drive.  I70 sounds like it's a crapshow every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.  And there's no real way to improve it.  LCC/BCC from my 2,000 mile away view is only a true problem on powder day weekends.  I monitor the traffic from here near-daily, and at least it seems while volume is up on the weekends even when it's dry you're not going to be sitting for hours and hours.  @thetrailboss 

I hear good things about Bend and Bozeman.


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## abc (Mar 17, 2021)

I'm not leaving New York City. But if I were to get a 2nd home, top of my list to choose that's relatively cheap and good skiing would be Reno. 

Perhaps because I used to live in California and ski Tahoe. Reno is close enough to day trip to many of the best mountains there. (and if people don't spoil it, I will neglect to mention the closest mountain which is neither Vail nor Alterra). 

The vibe is not something anyone would recommend. But with the casinos, there's sufficient level of services that you expect in a "city".

Tahoe has TONS of recreation in the summer. In that regard, it fits the cliché of "come for the winter, stay for the summer".


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## NYDB (Mar 17, 2021)

abc said:


> 1 year here, another year there...


yeah, I like that.  

I mean, you don't get to know a place as well as if you spent many years there, but it will be special for that 1st year.  

Plus, you can ignore the warts that inevitably arise anywhere you go for a year.    Keep the honeymoon period going at each new spot.


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## snoseek (Mar 17, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> Our son and his wife just moved to Ogden and he is young, well 25.  Going to school and working in Sundance as a sous chef.  He decided to start now and live there while he can get after it!


You just described the last 3 decades of my life. He can work literally anywhere he wants to live. That's pretty much the biggest benefit...there are alot of drawbacks. Also cheffing and kids are a difficult balance if he goes that route


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## thetrailboss (Mar 17, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I'll be moving out west this fall.  Even with all the traffic woes it's tough to beat the skiing options of SLC and you can't beat the housing prices of the area.  At this moment I'd like to work at Deer Valley or Sundance to escape the LCC traffic, although Alta/Snowbird has always been the dream.  Midweek tho it doesn't seem like its any problem to get up there.
> 
> Also looking at Carson City, NV at the moment.  30 minutes to Heavenly and 45 minutes to Northstar.  Cash in on those inflated CA wages.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you are comparing SLC to, but housing is in short supply and high demand here.  Costs are really high, relatively speaking.  Good luck.  Look me up when you get out here.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

abc said:


> I'm not leaving New York City. But if I were to get a 2nd home, top of my list to choose that's relatively cheap and good skiing would be Reno.
> 
> Perhaps because I used to live in California and ski Tahoe. Reno is close enough to day trip to many of the best mountains there. (and if people don't spoil it, I will neglect to mention the closest mountain which is neither Vail nor Alterra).
> 
> ...



mount rose? highest base of all tahoe resorts i think. more reliable/earlier/later snow.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

jimk said:


> I had some interesting chairlift conversations during my recent three week stay in UT.  My modus operandi was to ride the quad chairs with one other person, each of us sitting on the far ends of the lift with masks up.  One of the memorable chats was with a guy about age 35 who lived and worked in Philly.  We got going on the pandemic and he admitted that 2020-21 has been the *best* year of his life.  He's been working remotely the whole time and has taken frequent ski trips while working remotely.  He mentioned making a lengthy stay in Miami when his work team didn't even know he wasn't in Philly.  He was an example of a white collar person doing well, when we all know many on the lower end of the scale have suffered great economic hardship.
> 
> This dichotomy reminded me of stories my Dad used to tell about the 1930s.  He grew up in Quincy/Weston area of MA during the Great Depression, but had few memories of hard times.  His father had a good job with Kellogg cereal company.  They lived in a big house and my grandfather always drove a nice car.  Cereal was one of those things that sold very well during the Depression, sort of like how grocery stores have done well during covid.



my buddy's been doing the digital nomad bullshit for years prior to covid. it used to be a tolerable quirk of his personality, but this year it just seems selfish and immature to me.


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## Innitou (Mar 17, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I'll be moving out west this fall.  Even with all the traffic woes it's tough to beat the skiing options of SLC and you can't beat the housing prices of the area.  At this moment I'd like to work at Deer Valley or Sundance to escape the LCC traffic, although Alta/Snowbird has always been the dream.  Midweek tho it doesn't seem like its any problem to get up there.
> 
> Also looking at Carson City, NV at the moment.  30 minutes to Heavenly and 45 minutes to Northstar.  Cash in on those inflated CA wages.
> 
> ...


Well they could make a good ski train from Denver to take the load of I-70...


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## ss20 (Mar 17, 2021)

thetrailboss said:


> Not sure what you are comparing SLC to, but housing is in short supply and high demand here.  Costs are really high, relatively speaking.  Good luck.  Look me up when you get out here.



I should've added I'm in upper Fairfield county, CT...so to me, almost anything but CA, Seattle, Teton, Aspen, Telluride, and the I-70 corridor are gonna be less!!  I've seen housing stock going for more there than here but rentals significantly less.  A 2 bedroom apartment here  is gonna run you $1,200+ here an it won't be pretty.  Seems to be a solid number of options for the same thing in the SLC burbs for just over a grand.


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## ss20 (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> my buddy's been doing the digital nomad bullshit for years prior to covid. it used to be a tolerable quirk of his personality, but this year it just seems selfish and immature to me.



I talked to an ICU nurse in Sandy, UT back in December who was gonna be there for a couple months.  He worked 4 or 5 days a week and skied the rest.  All expenses paid and of course, a salary and all kinds of bonus pay I'm sure.  It was an odd sight...a male ICU nurse smoking a cigarette in a cheap hotel parking lot... all the power to him!


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## deadheadskier (Mar 17, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I should've added I'm in upper Fairfield county, CT...so to me, almost anything but CA, Seattle, Teton, Aspen, Telluride, and the I-70 corridor are gonna be less!!  I've seen housing stock going for more there than here but rentals significantly less.  A 2 bedroom apartment here  is gonna run you $1,200+ here an it won't be pretty.  Seems to be a solid number of options for the same thing in the SLC burbs for just over a grand.


I would have expected much higher rent in Fairfield county. $1200/ month for a 2 bedroom is really inexpensive compared to many places in New England.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I would have expected much higher rent in Fairfield county. $1200/ month for a 2 bedroom is really inexpensive compared to many places in New England.



hi from brooklyn heights. i'd murder for 1200.


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## Smellytele (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> mount rose? highest base of all tahoe resorts i think. more reliable/earlier/later snow.


The chutes are awesome there. Skied there when it was raining everywhere else in the region. The drive up from the lake was a little sketchy in the snow.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 17, 2021)

Despite the skiing advantages out west, I don't see myself leaving New England.  Water in the lakes is too damn cold out there.  Boating and swimming sucks in anything under 70 degrees and I'd prefer water closer to 80 for July and August.  If Rangeley had a bit more going on, it would be perfect.  Still too sleepy for year round living for me .


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## LonghornSkier (Mar 17, 2021)

I have no interest in moving to Salt Lake City. Reminds me of Plano with (crowded) mountains in the background.

There’s a lot more to a place to me than just its access to outdoor activities. I’d love living in Santa Fe, NM as a result. Great food and culture, good skiing and hiking, access to Texas where I still have lots of friends/family, and less of the “fleeing the cities” vibe/more of a sense of place.


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## abc (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> hi from brooklyn heights. i'd murder for 1200.


That'll probably get you a studio?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 17, 2021)

abc said:


> That'll probably get you a studio?



definitely not in my neighborhood. maybe in bed-stuy and points east/south.


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## abc (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> mount rose? highest base of all tahoe resorts i think. more reliable/earlier/later snow.


Well, people do like to spoil it 



Smellytele said:


> The chutes are awesome there. Skied there when it was raining everywhere else in the region. The drive up from the lake was a little sketchy in the snow.


Coming from Reno, the drive is a bit less sketchy.

Perhaps I should take my own advice and start looking for something there...


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## JimG. (Mar 17, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Arguably, if you are considering the Saratoga area, I would even throw in a bit further North in the Glens Falls/Queensbury area as well.
> 
> You have all the Saratoga features roughly 20 minutes away, you have the Lake George region less than 20 minutes away, you have some redevelopment in and around the original mill town heritage of Glens Falls, you have for local, quick skiing, West Mountain right there, as well as close to the ADK's and Green Mountains.
> 
> Out West, the Park City area has always caught my wife's and my interest as a potential retirement location, but even if you get down into KImball Junction it certainly can be on the pricey side  We have also thought of the Bozeman Montana area as that area has been under a bit of a renaissance over the last decade or so and is becoming more than just a gateway to either the Northern Entrance of Yellowstone National Park as well as the Big Sky region


After years of planning to relocate to VT or NH I have come to the realization that I will wind up in the Lake George area. Great skiing nearby and Killington is only about an hour or so east. Maybe an hour further to Sugarbush. Whiteface is about 1.5 northwest. And Gore in my backyard. 

Not to mention the great fishing and hiking in summer.


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## JimG. (Mar 17, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> my buddy's been doing the digital nomad bullshit for years prior to covid. it used to be a tolerable quirk of his personality, but this year it just seems selfish and immature to me.


Live and let live.

Don't blame him because his quirks insulated him from the covid crap.


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## jimk (Mar 17, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I talked to an ICU nurse in Sandy, UT back in December who was gonna be there for a couple months.  He worked 4 or 5 days a week and skied the rest.  All expenses paid and of course, a salary and all kinds of bonus pay I'm sure.  It was an odd sight...a male ICU nurse smoking a cigarette in a cheap hotel parking lot... all the power to him!


Yeah, I guess during covid a lot of hospitals in Utah and around the country are paying a big bonus for travel nurses to come in temporarily and help beef up their staff.  I met one of them on a chairlift ride last month.  I guess NYC hired thousands of them last year when the hospitals were crammed.


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## thebigo (Mar 17, 2021)

I have lived in nh my entire life and really don't ever see leaving. Always figured I would retire in the MWV but not sure I want to be that isolated from an airport and medical specialists. Spent some time in Plymouth last summer and enjoyed that side. I would like to spend some more time in littleton, hear good things. NH does not tax retirement income and there are ways around the high property taxes. You can also access DHMC if needed from littleton and Logan is a reasonable drive for a few west/europe trips per year. Also doesn't hurt that NH seniors ski cannon midweek for free. Jay and Burke are also within day trip range.

Also small hospitals in both littleton and Plymouth, wife works in medicine and is the type to never retire. I could see her working a few days a week, well past retirement age. Opposite of me, closing in on 100 days this year; friends joke that I am already retired at 42.


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## Puck it (Mar 17, 2021)

thebigo said:


> I have lived in nh my entire life and really don't ever see leaving. Always figured I would retire in the MWV but not sure I want to be that isolated from an airport and medical specialists. Spent some time in Plymouth last summer and enjoyed that side. I would like to spend some more time in littleton, hear good things. NH does not tax retirement income and there are ways around the high property taxes. You can also access DHMC if needed from littleton and Logan is a reasonable drive for a few west/europe trips per year. Also doesn't hurt that NH seniors ski cannon midweek for free. Jay and Burke are also within day trip range.
> 
> Also small hospitals in both littleton and Plymouth, wife works in medicine and is the type to never retire. I could see her working a few days a week, well past retirement age. Opposite of me, closing in on 100 days this year; friends joke that I am already retired at 42.


Can’t agree more. That is why we chose Franconia.  We are already considering selling our MA house.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 17, 2021)

thebigo said:


> I have lived in nh my entire life and really don't ever see leaving. Always figured I would retire in the MWV but not sure I want to be that isolated from an airport and medical specialists. Spent some time in Plymouth last summer and enjoyed that side. I would like to spend some more time in littleton, hear good things. NH does not tax retirement income and there are ways around the high property taxes. You can also access DHMC if needed from littleton and Logan is a reasonable drive for a few west/europe trips per year. Also doesn't hurt that NH seniors ski cannon midweek for free. Jay and Burke are also within day trip range.
> 
> Also small hospitals in both littleton and Plymouth, wife works in medicine and is the type to never retire. I could see her working a few days a week, well past retirement age. Opposite of me, closing in on 100 days this year; friends joke that I am already retired at 42.



I've thought about the Plymouth area or more specifically Holderness.  If I can afford something modest on the water with access to Squam, I'd like that.  Littleton is nice, but lacking in amenities compared to Plymouth.


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## 2Planker (Mar 17, 2021)

It's NH for us. 
50 years in MA/RI makes it an easy decision.

Wifey is college admin. so Plymouth State is on the list


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## Newpylong (Mar 17, 2021)

I hear lots of votes for moving to NH. Might be time to subdivide my 25 acres and retire early...


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## thebigo (Mar 17, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I hear lots of votes for moving to NH. Might be time to subdivide my 25 acres and retire early...


Is it in current use?


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## ss20 (Mar 17, 2021)

Newpylong said:


> I hear lots of votes for moving to NH. Might be time to subdivide my 25 acres and retire early...



Nah...AZ Shantytown/Auto Park.  We'll all put in $100 each but rather than build any shelter we'll just build a 500ft long bar and a fire pit!  Then we'll bitch about Epic, Ikon, grooming, Attitash/Wildcat, and talk about the Holy Lands of Magic, MRG, and Platty all while drinking Lawson's.


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 17, 2021)

I'm in!


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## Zand (Mar 17, 2021)

I'm among those who once dreamed of Denver or SLC, but I couldn't deal with that traffic and crowding, or house prices either. I'm also on the NH bandwagon. The outdoorsy person in me is interested in the Ashland/Holderness area but the realist is thinking Concord/environs (more work opps plus right on I-89 for easy access to VT) or maybe Tilton. Truth be told, other than a good Cannon I've never been a fan of NH skiing compared to VT. But I love NH in the summer between the great hikes and the lakes (I'm more of a Squam person than Winnipesaukee person). Plus Concord is the same distance from Boston as I am now (although I absolutely despise that city, only go there for Bruins games and direct flights to SLC).

Thought about Maine but it goes from super hipster/too many Boston people/big money in the southern part to "way up there in Maine" pretty quick and there isn't much middle ground like the Concord area. Plus I like road tripping in the summer and Maine is far from literally anything else. 

On another topic (slightly) if I could ever afford a condo at a resort I would pretty easily pick Killington. Long season, good amount of restaurants, easy access to Rutland, and smack in the middle of VT for quick runs to the MRV etc.


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## snoseek (Mar 17, 2021)

Littleton checks all the boxes for me. It went from a town I could buy into a couple years ago to nothing for sale.


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## Newpylong (Mar 18, 2021)

thebigo said:


> Is it in current use?


Everything but around 1.5 acres.

Real estate here is out of control too. My wife purchased and renovated 3 multi unit buildings and they were rented before a hammer was picked up.

Easy access to highways, skiing, lots of water, outdoor recreation, and decent shopping has it's highs I guess.


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## tumbler (Mar 18, 2021)

Really liked the vibe of Moab but not sure how close skiing is to there.


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## snoseek (Mar 18, 2021)

tumbler said:


> Really liked the vibe of Moab but not sure how close skiing is to there.


Telluride and powderhorn are reasonable day trips. Lasals for backcountry


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## Puck it (Mar 18, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Littleton checks all the boxes for me. It went from a town I could buy into a couple years ago to nothing for sale.


There are still things for sale but a lot need major work.


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## Puck it (Mar 18, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Littleton is nice, but lacking in amenities compared to Plymouth.


I disagree.  The town is changing and getting more amenities.  The other thing is that most people don't know here is anything past exit 32.  I would like to keep it that way for the masses.


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## 1dog (Mar 18, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> a friend does that now. he's not retired, just spoiled and out of touch.
> 
> 6 months in Mexico, 6 months in Chamonix, 4 months in Japan, 1 month at Burning Man, come 'home' to NYC for 3 months, etc.
> 
> he's been in Tulum for all of COVID. its taxed our friendship. there's a huge community of ex-pats in tulum behaving like peter pans and as if covid doesn't exist.


and they cancelled Peter Pan - the ultimate 'Pat' from old Saturday Night Live. . . .  next up? Bard, Shakespeare, Homer . . Permanent Vacation gets old quick. . . but you can't tell most people that. Everyone wants what they don't have. Well, almost everyone . .


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## abc (Mar 18, 2021)

1dog said:


> Everyone wants what they don't have. Well, almost everyone .


I see the reverse. 

People only TALK about wanting what they don't have. The moment what they "want" becomes a *possibility*, they stop "wanting" it! It's more of a phantasy world most people dreamt up to get through their daily grind.   

The people who really want something, I see them working to GET IT! Then they stop talking about it. They're too busy working towards what they truly want


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## mikec142 (Mar 18, 2021)

abc said:


> I see the reverse.
> 
> People only TALK about wanting what they don't have. The moment what they "want" becomes a *possibility*, they stop "wanting" it! It's more of a phantasy world most people dreamt up to get through their daily grind.
> 
> The people who really want something, I see them working to GET IT! Then they stop talking about it. They're too busy working towards what they truly want


This is like the Monday morning of responses.  Give me more of the Friday afternoon vibe.


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## drjeff (Mar 18, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> I would have expected much higher rent in Fairfield county. $1200/ month for a 2 bedroom is really inexpensive compared to many places in New England.


I think the key thing that SS20 said is that he's in UPPER Fairfield County. And there are communities in Upper Fairfield County, as opposed to down along the Coast where the cost of living isn't the crazy high numbers that many of the lower Fairfield County towns are famous for


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2021)

Puck it said:


> I disagree.  The town is changing and getting more amenities.  The other thing is that most people don't know here is anything past exit 32.  I would like to keep it that way for the masses.



Opinions vary. I spend several days a year in both towns for work.  Littleton has come a long way, but I still think Plymouth has a bit better dining scene overall and it also has the Flying Monkey, which is a very good live music venue.   That's important to me.  Most important though is the boating opportunities are far better with Squam and Newfound lake nearby and Winni not too far either.  Littleton has Moore reservoir, but there's no marina on that lake. 

I'd sacrifice proximity to skiing and hiking locating near Plymouth vs Franconia and Littleton area, but it's still only 35-40 minutes from Cannon, which is fine for me.  Overall though the Plymouth area just fits what I want for year round living more than further north.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> I have no interest in moving to Salt Lake City. Reminds me of Plano with (crowded) mountains in the background.
> 
> There’s a lot more to a place to me than just its access to outdoor activities. I’d love living in Santa Fe, NM as a result. Great food and culture, good skiing and hiking, access to Texas where I still have lots of friends/family, and less of the “fleeing the cities” vibe/more of a sense of place.


The smog has become really gross. East Coast folks for whatever reason seem extremely fixated on SLC and the Cottonwood Canyons. I get it, the skiing is really good and the access is convenient but it’s an urban skiing environment imho. There’s more attractive places that are far off most people’s radar, those are the places that are still special.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> I have no interest in moving to Salt Lake City. Reminds me of Plano with (crowded) mountains in the background.
> 
> There’s a lot more to a place to me than just its access to outdoor activities. I’d love living in Santa Fe, NM as a result. Great food and culture, good skiing and hiking, access to Texas where I still have lots of friends/family, and less of the “fleeing the cities” vibe/more of a sense of place.


Santa Fe is rad. Taos is my most favorite ski mountain anywhere now. The terrain is right there with Jackson or Snowbird but without the hype and crowds. Hopefully it stays that way.

New Mexico is a bit strange though. I actually appreciate its weirdness and grit but some folks would probably be turned off by it. There’s a lot of crime there. It’s still kind of like the wild, Wild West. It’s quite the contrast from Utah where the Norman thing keeps most folks honest and super kind.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

thebigo said:


> I have lived in nh my entire life and really don't ever see leaving. Always figured I would retire in the MWV but not sure I want to be that isolated from an airport and medical specialists. Spent some time in Plymouth last summer and enjoyed that side. I would like to spend some more time in littleton, hear good things. NH does not tax retirement income and there are ways around the high property taxes. You can also access DHMC if needed from littleton and Logan is a reasonable drive for a few west/europe trips per year. Also doesn't hurt that NH seniors ski cannon midweek for free. Jay and Burke are also within day trip range.
> 
> Also small hospitals in both littleton and Plymouth, wife works in medicine and is the type to never retire. I could see her working a few days a week, well past retirement age. Opposite of me, closing in on 100 days this year; friends joke that I am already retired at 42.





tumbler said:


> Really liked the vibe of Moab but not sure how close skiing is to there.


Theres good back country right there in the LaSals.

Moab gets crazy at peak season. The riding is a lot better over in the Cedar City region imho and it’s not nearly as crowded.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

Ely, Nevada.

Santa Fe or Taos NM.

Any of the small towns on the north/east side of Wolf Creek Pass, CO.

Terrace BC.

McCall, ID.

Salida, CO.

Parowan, UT.

Cedar City, UT.

Beaver, UT.

Woss, BC.

Smithers BC.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

Unpopular opinion......SLC and I-70 skiing is dead, done and over. If you want a taste of the good old days you better start thinking out of the box. See my list above.

sure, skiing at some of those areas may not be Snowbird but it’s a small sacrifice to not have the headaches and stress that comes with the most popular and crowded places.

I moved out west from New Jersey 26 years ago, mainly for the skiing but quickly realized it was much more about escaping the rat race lifestyle. I don’t think that a lot of people that live in it actually realize how much affect it has on their overall quality of life. Those “conveniences” aren’t, really. Skiing in Jackson when I lived there 20 years ago started to mirror the rat race lifestyle and once I saw that I left. I had created a stressful environment, early trams, finding parking, scaring the crap out of myself to impress sponsors.....it was dumb and it wore me the f out. Now all I want is quiet, listen to the birds and be around as few people as possible.


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## ss20 (Mar 18, 2021)

drjeff said:


> I think the key thing that SS20 said is that he's in UPPER Fairfield County. And there are communities in Upper Fairfield County, as opposed to down along the Coast where the cost of living isn't the crazy high numbers that many of the lower Fairfield County towns are famous for


Yes.  Danbury, Bethel, Brookfield, New Fairfield are all not-too-bad-priced upper middle-class neighborhoods.  But that is rapidly changing.  There is very little development for the "common" man happening, residential or commercial... it's all focused on upscale.  15 years ago the Danbury Mall had a Sears, CVS, pet shop, arcade, an Uno and a Ruby Tuesday's.  Now it's literally all upscale stores, and the only sit-down restaurant is a Cheesecake Factory.  Nearly every new restaurant/bar is high-end.  Toll Brothers has taken over Bethel and all they build is luxury townhouses on crappy tracts of land.  $500k for new construction 2-3bd townhouse where your "yard" is a 15ft strip of grass to a fence, another home, a retaining wall, or a sheer cliff... absolutely insane.  

What kills me is that people still pay that kind of $$$ and a good chunk commute down to NYC.  Which either by road or train (both of which haven't been upgraded since the population was a fraction of what is is now) is roughly 2 hours into Manhattan.  Even if you're going down to Stamford it's sheer hell getting down there without an actual highway.


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## jaytrem (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Santa Fe is rad. Taos is my most favorite ski mountain anywhere now. The terrain is right there with Jackson or Snowbird but without the hype and crowds. Hopefully it stays that way.


Shhhhh, my wife sister and family just moved back to NM, don't need it crowded when we visit.  Taos is a blast!  I mean it sucks, don't go there.

From your other list I'd go with McCall for combo of best/least crowded skiing.  Can't say I've been to Woss though.


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## ss20 (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I moved out west from New Jersey 26 years ago, mainly for the skiing but quickly realized it was much more about escaping the rat race lifestyle. I don’t think that a lot of people that live in it actually realize how much affect it has on their overall quality of life. Those “conveniences” aren’t, really. Skiing in Jackson when I lived there 20 years ago started to mirror the rat race lifestyle and once I saw that I left. I had created a stressful environment, early trams, finding parking, scaring the crap out of myself to impress sponsors.....it was dumb and it wore me the f out. Now all I want is quiet, listen to the birds and be around as few people as possible.



Unless there's an "AARP Retirement Freeride Tour" I don't think that last bit will be an issue for much of AZ!!!


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## Hawk (Mar 18, 2021)

A very wise and wealthy friend once told me, why own when you can rent.  Owning is one big pain in the ass.  I agree with that statement.
Nope I will be keeping my house in Coastal MA 1/2 mile from my beach and mountain biking right out my door.  I will probably sell my place at Sugarbush and rent for a month at a time, wherever I want.  We are definitely doing several months in Europe probably based in Cham and taking trips around.  I also think we will take time to visit the 100's of ski friends out west that have moved on to greener pastures.  BC and Alberta are also on the docket for extended stays.

I don't like SLC, Denver, Reno for a place to settle down.  They lack something, not sure but it is kind of unexplainable to me.  It is just my impression from multiple visits.  Other places have to little to offer for cultural experiences.  I need great food, music, art and entertainment to keep me occupied for the remainder of the year.  I get all of that and more where I live.


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## HowieT2 (Mar 18, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I've had a place in southern VT for coming up on 25 years now.  I plan on moving on once the kids are grown up and the length of the car ride  for a weekend trip is no longer the primary consideration.  It just doesn't snow as much there anymore.  Or maybe I should say it seems to rain more.
> 
> I don't know if another place further north might be the ticket.  Sugarbush?  Maybe Saddleback?  I like the stowe area but Vail ownership makes it unappealing.
> 
> ...


nelson, BC


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## ss20 (Mar 18, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Shhhhh, my wife sister and family just moved back to NM, don't need it crowded when we visit.  Taos is a blast!  I mean it sucks, don't go there.
> 
> From your other list I'd go with McCall for combo of best/least crowded skiing.  Can't say I've been to Woss though.



Taos I'd be concerned about length of season and the tendency for it to get slow starts and dry years.  And then if you're out there and it is a poor season you've got Colorado as the only "easy" drivable option in search of snow.

What always appealed to me about Utah is you're dead center of the American west ski universe....be in Vail in 6 hours...Jackson in 5 hours...Lake Tahoe in 8 hours... Aspen in 6 hours... Sun Valley in 5 hours... Big Sky in 6 hours.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Shhhhh, my wife sister and family just moved back to NM, don't need it crowded when we visit.  Taos is a blast!  I mean it sucks, don't go there.
> 
> From your other list I'd go with McCall for combo of best/least crowded skiing.  Can't say I've been to Woss though.


I know I know. I’ve been keeping quiet about my list for a little while now.

I really want to check out Ely. It doesn’t have a ski area but there’s 12 thousand foot peaks nearby and they are on the cusp of a major trail building project. I hear the mountain biking is really good already.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Taos I'd be concerned about length of season and the tendency for it to get slow starts and dry years.  And then if you're out there and it is a poor season you've got Colorado as the only "easy" drivable option in search of no snow.
> 
> What always appealed to me about Utah is you're dead center of the American west ski universe....be in Vail in 6 hours...Jackson in 5 hours...Lake Tahoe in 8 hours... Aspen in 6 hours... Sun Valley in 5 hours... Big Sky in 6 hours.


That concern and sometimes iffy conditions is exactly what keeps folks away though. The Four Corners region teaches you a thing about patience but the rewards are very sweet. This may be another unpopular opinion but I prefer less consistent snowfall to not have crowds and lift lines. Packed powder and steep bump skiing is my new powder day and man I love those rocky, mogul filled, technical thin steeps at Taos!

I definitely get the location attractiveness though, especially if you haven’t spent a ton of time skiing out here. I guess I’ve skied my butt off out west and have become a little jaded with how things have changed and that’s why I look for something different.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> That concern and sometimes iffy conditions is exactly what keeps folks away though. The Four Corners region teaches you a thing about patience but the rewards are very sweet. This may be another unpopular opinion but I prefer less consistent snowfall to not have crowds and lift lines. Packed powder and steep bump skiing is my new powder day and man I love those rocky, mogul filled, technical thin steeps at Taos!



thats definitely something i love about that sort of terrain. stuff that's so steep that it doesn't really hold pow anyway. the technical stuff like all the chutes at kicking horse. doesn't need to be fresh to be so so fun. i love gliding thru a wide open slope of powder, but i also really love the almost problem solving nature of thin technical adventure skiing.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> thats definitely something i love about that sort of terrain. stuff that's so steep that it doesn't really hold pow anyway. the technical stuff like all the chutes at kicking horse. doesn't need to be fresh to be so so fun. i love gliding thru a wide open slope of powder, but i also really love the almost problem solving nature of thin technical adventure skiing.


Hells yeah! I love me some chalky wind buffed steep skiing and throw some teeth in there to keep me honest!

we had a beautiful powder morning here two days ago but ya know what? I had more fun smashing zipper lines through tight trees later in the day once things packed out a little! My 15 years ago self would think the now me is crazy


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

HowieT2 said:


> nelson, BC


Everyone I know that has spent time there says that it’s their dream town.


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## Smellytele (Mar 18, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Shhhhh, my wife sister and family just moved back to NM, don't need it crowded when we visit.  Taos is a blast!  I mean it sucks, don't go there.
> 
> From your other list I'd go with McCall for combo of best/least crowded skiing.  Can't say I've been to Woss though.


You mean sister wife? Oh wait that is Utah.


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## jimk (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Ely, Nevada.
> 
> Santa Fe or Taos NM.
> 
> ...





raisingarizona said:


> Unpopular opinion......SLC and I-70 skiing is dead, done and over. If you want a taste of the good old days you better start thinking out of the box. See my list above.
> 
> sure, skiing at some of those areas may not be Snowbird but it’s a small sacrifice to not have the headaches and stress that comes with the most popular and crowded places.
> 
> I moved out west from New Jersey 26 years ago, mainly for the skiing but quickly realized it was much more about escaping the rat race lifestyle. I don’t think that a lot of people that live in it actually realize how much affect it has on their overall quality of life. Those “conveniences” aren’t, really. Skiing in Jackson when I lived there 20 years ago started to mirror the rat race lifestyle and once I saw that I left. I had created a stressful environment, early trams, finding parking, scaring the crap out of myself to impress sponsors.....it was dumb and it wore me the f out. Now all I want is quiet, listen to the birds and be around as few people as possible.


Good posts.  Good list of small towns.  This is the kind of input I value from RaisingAZ, thoughtful, constructive and based on real experience.  
As I said in another post, every place has its pros and cons.  Much of UT and CO have become too popular for their own good.  But on a good day both are amazing.  A lot of the skiing at quieter locations features less variety, or less snowfall, or colder temps, or whatever.  Life involves compromises.

I've passed through Moab a couple times.  There is a lot of great scenery there, but at times I have mixed feelings picturing the pristine, amazing geography swarming with various types of motorized vehicles.  

About the rat race:  I drove from UT to Wash DC last week.  I returned to the DC metro area during a Friday evening rush hour.  Since covid, the rush hours around the Capital Beltway have not been the same horrible things they were in the past, but last Friday seemed closer to the pre-covid norm.  Traffic was heavy with multiple wrecks radiating in all directions 50 miles out from the city core.   In SLC there is only one main artery that sees any significant rush hour traffic.  It is Interstate 15 running north-south through the city.  They consider it a bad rush hour if you have a 10 minute delay during a 25 mile commute.  To slow down below 60mph on this road is unusual.   That is child's play compared to rush hour in most metro areas on the East and West coasts of America.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2021)

the traffic in denver and slc is more about getting out than commuting within in my perception at least. cottonwood canyons and i70 on a Saturday morning is a sisyphusian hell

can say anecdotally that traffic is re-emerging in nyc as well. but its not what it once was. our office buildings are still basically empty of commuters.


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## jaytrem (Mar 18, 2021)

HowieT2 said:


> nelson, BC


People do show up early on powder days.  Was surprised how many were there LONG before the lifts opened on a weekday.  That being said, there were a hell of a lot of them than anywhere near SLC.  The town itself feels more like a "real" town than a ski town (if that makes sense).

I think my #1 would be something near Discovery MT.  A weekday powder day there is sooooooo quiet.  Most runs on the backside we didn't see anybody else.  The local towns are very "sleepy" though, so probably not for everyone.


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## abc (Mar 18, 2021)

HowieT2 said:


> nelson, BC


There's this little detail of it located in Canada!

If you had owned a place there, you wouldn't have been able to get to it for the past year. I would think long and hard owning property in a different country. But if I do, it'll probably in Portugal


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## x10003q (Mar 18, 2021)

Here are a few more hidden gems out west with great, uncrowded local skiing attached to a real town:
Wenatchee, WA.  -10 miles to Mission Ridge - 2000 acres, 2250' vertical, 55 miles from Stevens Pass, Schweitzer Mtn 4:20, the Powder Highway is about 5 hours away
Pocatello, Id. 15 miles to Pebble Creek Ski area - 1100 acres, 2200' vertical, Grand Targhee 2:20, Powder Mtn 2:20, Jackson Hole 3:00, Sun Valley 3:00, Big Sky 3:40
Glenwood Springs, Co. 12 miles to Sunlight Mtn - 730 ares, 2000' vertical, Snowmass/Aspen 40 miles, Beaver Creek 50 miles, Vail 60 miles, Telluride 3:40, Crested Butte 4:00
For medium city life - Reno/Carson City, Boise, Spokane, Colorado Springs, Ogden, Bend are all near decent skiing.

The key is to have easy access to great, uncrowded skiing while living in an affordable area. I am not sure if a permanent move will work, but renting for a month or 2 might be reasonable. An ideal situation (although expensive) might be ending up in Aspen or Jackson Hole, but as we close in to retirement, an area like Mission Ridge and its 2000 uncrowded acres will probably be more than enough fun for daily skiing.


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## abc (Mar 18, 2021)

Hawk said:


> I need great food, music, art and entertainment to keep me occupied for the remainder of the year. I get all of that and more where I live.


That's why I'll never leave NYC.

I may get a place for a few years for the skiing, or other outdoor recreations. But I won't live there year round. I need to spend at least 1/2 year in NYC to satisfy my cultural craving.



Hawk said:


> A very wise and wealthy friend once told me, why own when you can rent. Owning is one big pain in the ass. I agree with that statement.


The point is he's RICH. Renting can add up. Whilst owning maybe a big pain in the ass, you stands to gain in capital appreciation while living in it. Even if it doesn't appreciate in value, you still get to live "rent free" in exchange for your hassle/PITA.

So for those who aren't rich, owning is their way of renting, without paying rent. More precisely, they pay rent with their labor.


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## jaytrem (Mar 18, 2021)

x10003q said:


> Here are a few more hidden gems out west with great, uncrowded local skiing attached to a real town:
> Wenatchee, WA.  -10 miles to Mission Ridge - 2000 acres, 2250' vertical, 55 miles from Stevens Pass, Schweitzer Mtn 4:20, the Powder Highway is about 5 hours away


Should be there in about a week if I have the guts to get on a plane (with kids).  Got my first shot today, but is probably no help for the outbound flight.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 18, 2021)

x10003q said:


> Here are a few more hidden gems out west with great, uncrowded local skiing attached to a real town:
> Wenatchee, WA.  -10 miles to Mission Ridge - 2000 acres, 2250' vertical, 55 miles from Stevens Pass, Schweitzer Mtn 4:20, the Powder Highway is about 5 hours away
> Pocatello, Id. 15 miles to Pebble Creek Ski area - 1100 acres, 2200' vertical, Grand Targhee 2:20, Powder Mtn 2:20, Jackson Hole 3:00, Sun Valley 3:00, Big Sky 3:40
> Glenwood Springs, Co. 12 miles to Sunlight Mtn - 730 ares, 2000' vertical, Snowmass/Aspen 40 miles, Beaver Creek 50 miles, Vail 60 miles, Telluride 3:40, Crested Butte 4:00
> ...



Glenwood Springs is not cheap!  I was going to work for a utility out that way (Carbondale) and housing was going to cost more than it would in Colorado Springs for the same size home.  Sunlight is a cool ski area but the lifts are awfully slow.  When there is a powder day it last for days for that reason,  Glenwood Springs is a cool town though.  

Good spots though!


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## gladerider (Mar 18, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> This topic came up in a different thread.  Although I still have a decent way to go, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on great places to settle down after the kids are in college and in retirement. Some of the obvious ones to me haven't been affordable in years so I'm curious about up and coming or alternative type places.  Places like Park City, Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, etc. are just plain unaffordable these days.
> 
> I mentioned Saratoga Springs, NY.  It's probably on the expensive side if you live right in town, but to me, it has a lot going for it.  It's a college town so it remains young and vibrant.  It has a bustling downtown area full of restaurants, shops, and bars.  The track makes things really fun and interesting in the summer.  The performing arts center gets great shows.  Albany is 30 minutes away for bigger city things and an airport.  Quick access to outdoor recreation and Gore is one hour away.



hmm. never thought about saratoga. it is a good town. close to everything. 
not so tax friendly to retirees though


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## cdskier (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I moved out west from New Jersey 26 years ago, mainly for the skiing but quickly realized it was much more about escaping the rat race lifestyle. *I don’t think that a lot of people that live in it actually realize how much affect it has on their overall quality of life*. Those “conveniences” aren’t, really. Skiing in Jackson when I lived there 20 years ago started to mirror the rat race lifestyle and once I saw that I left. I had created a stressful environment, early trams, finding parking, scaring the crap out of myself to impress sponsors.....it was dumb and it wore me the f out. Now all I want is quiet, listen to the birds and be around as few people as possible.



I live in NJ and have had this feeling growing and growing for quite some time. I just have absolutely no idea where I'd want to go. Really the main thing keeping me in NJ is family connections (parents, grandmother, brother is 30 minutes away in Rockland county NY with his wife and my nephew, only 3 hours from my sister and her family in Baltimore, etc). I do also enjoy all the great BYOB restaurants we have in NJ around me. But that's about it.

I've had a 45 mile commute to work (from north jersey to central jersey) for over 15 years now. Before the pandemic I was up to working 2 days remotely from home and only had to make the drive 3 days a week. Now after not doing that commute at all for over a year, I don't know how I can go back to it. There's so much more time in the day when I'm not spending 2+ hours a day driving (and not having to deal with all the idiots on the road has reduced stress significantly as well).

And now since early January I've been living in the Mad River Valley and love the peace and quiet. It has been an incredibly relaxing couple months so far. I still don't think I could live here year-round though. Fun during ski season, but I think I'd be a bit bored and somewhat lonely the rest of the year.

Not really ideal for skiing, but the Finger Lakes is one place I could see wanting to live.


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## abc (Mar 18, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Yes.  Danbury, Bethel, Brookfield, New Fairfield are all not-too-bad-priced upper middle-class neighborhoods.  But that is rapidly changing.  There is very little development for the "common" man happening, residential or commercial... it's all focused on upscale.  15 years ago the Danbury Mall had a Sears, CVS, pet shop, arcade, an Uno and a Ruby Tuesday's.  Now it's literally all upscale stores, and the only sit-down restaurant is a Cheesecake Factory.  Nearly every new restaurant/bar is high-end.  Toll Brothers has taken over Bethel and all they build is luxury townhouses on crappy tracts of land.  $500k for new construction 2-3bd townhouse where your "yard" is a 15ft strip of grass to a fence, another home, a retaining wall, or a sheer cliff... absolutely insane.
> 
> What kills me is that people still pay that kind of $$$ and a good chunk commute down to NYC.  Which either by road or train (both of which haven't been upgraded since the population was a fraction of what is is now) is roughly 2 hours into Manhattan.  Even if you're going down to Stamford it's sheer hell getting down there without an actual highway.


I lived in upper Fairfield (actually a few miles north of the county line in Litchfield) about 12 years back. I like Danbury Mall now a lot better than back then. 

Needless to say, I'm one of "those people" who pushed the area upscale. 

Yeah, even the area I now live (across the state line on the I-684 corridor) has gone a whole lot busier from when I first settled down here. While I don't exactly embrace the crowds, I can't say I'm sorry for the appreciation of my house that comes with it! 

Very few people living in that my old area commute to NYC when I used to live there. I still don't know too many people do that now. Where I'm living now, it's only a tad over an hour train ride to the city. But still not that many people commute to the city daily. But it's just perfect distance for the remote working crowd though. An occasional commute, or a couple days a week, complete the day with a night out in the city. 

Time had changed. How we work changed. Where people live change with it. Property value change to reflect that. 

Choose where you want to live, AND can afford. If it's a good place, it may get more popular. But if that happens, and you don't like the crowd, you'll be in a good position to cash out and move to some place else less crowded. 

If you can't afford to live where you want, just keep in mind you'll be trading something living some place less expensive. It's perfectly alright to compromise, as long as you're honest to yourself on what you're giving up.


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## gladerider (Mar 18, 2021)

as the OP, i have the same question to myself. don't want to retire in NJ but it is difficult to leave behind what you get from NYC suburb. 
skiing is a big part of what i want in the next move but not the only part for me.

i always thought the Seattle area would be great for me on paper. after my recent visit there, i was disappointed. maybe i need to spend more time but liked Vancouver much more.

my wife and i spend a lot of time and $ on visiting restaurants and Denver was a big surprise. in fact, food was very good in CO in general. not sure if i would say the same in UT but then again, my last visit to SLC was almost 7 years ago. need to go back.

thought Tahoe was way too expensive. a decent lot around the lake is like $4-500k.

NH is also interesting


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## 2Planker (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Ely, Nevada.
> 
> Santa Fe or Taos NM.
> 
> ...


I've been to Smithers BC. Buddy grew up there and went to play hockey at Quinnipiac before getting drafted by San Jose


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## crank (Mar 18, 2021)

All the issues...

Cost
Transportation
Climate
Local ski terrain
Culture
Off season activities
Live in town or at mountain or both.  (Aspen, Park City, Telluride are examples of "both")

Must be more I'm not thinking of.

We have been putting thought into this for a few years.

We fell in love with Whitefish on a ski trip and were serious enough about it that we returned for a week in late summer.  We hiked, mountain biked, even looked at a few houses in town.  Still really like it.  Houses, of course, cost a bit more now, still affordable for us. There is enough happening in the town, live music, restaurants and such.  We would buy in town, walking distance to shopping, etc. and take advantage of free bus to and from ski hill about 7 miles distant.  Small - medium sized airport a half hour away, however, not direct flights to many places. We think being located out west would be nice for road trips to national parks or big resort ski safaris.

Climate - well it's pretty far north and pretty cold.  Good hedge for global warming?

Local ski terrain - Whitefish is our kind of hill meaning tons of tree skiing and a decent pitch though nothing that a good skier would call scary.

Off season - tons of hiking, biking, mtn. biking.  Flathead valley os pretty lush for western US.  rivers, lakes, forests...got it all.



And then we think we might want to stay here in the northeast.  All our friends and family are here.  We love VT and can afford to buy there and can afford the taxes too.  Reliable snow and snow pack is an issue.  Areas we are thinking about include Mad River Vally, VT.  NH (We have good friends in Sunape - not so good we want to live too close to them) we really like the berkshires in MA, the area around Williamstown.  It is close to to the VT border and not far from Berkshire East.  So. VT. skiing in fairly easy reach.  Lots of cultural activity, especially with Tanglewood in the summer.

And then we really like where we live now.  We are walking distance to a great theatre, The Capitol in Port Chester, NY.  Can't wait until we can walk down the hill for some great shows again! Half hour from Manhattan.  Beautiful hiking and biking in our Hudson River Valley region.  Love visiting wife's best friend out in Hampton Bays LI in the summer.  We would consider buying out there save for the hassle it would be to get to the mountains. 

We may try some month long rentals in a few areas to see how we like it.  I am retired and my wife can work from anywhere with internet.  She has about 5 years before she will be ready to quit working.

Of course, health is a big factor in all our plans and hopefully we all get to enjoy the mountains for many years to come.


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

jimk said:


> Good posts.  Good list of small towns.  This is the kind of input I value from RaisingAZ, thoughtful, constructive and based on real experience.
> As I said in another post, every place has its pros and cons.  Much of UT and CO have become too popular for their own good.  But on a good day both are amazing.  A lot of the skiing at quieter locations features less variety, or less snowfall, or colder temps, or whatever.  Life involves compromises.
> 
> I've passed through Moab a couple times.  There is a lot of great scenery there, but at times I have mixed feelings picturing the pristine, amazing geography swarming with various types of motorized vehicles.
> ...


Yeah, I’ve been to Moab when it’s bustling and it can be overwhelming imo. Incredible area for sure, I’ve been meaning to get back to do some backpacking but I camp for work so it’s hard to motivate for that.

The Mormons sure do know how to lay out a city. It’s so easy to navigate around SLC, a stark contrast from say.....Boston.

I love those southern Mormon towns I listed. The people are extremely friendly and there’s literally no crime. Parowan is one of the prettiest towns I’ve ever seen and it’s just down the hill from Brianhead. It’s Don’t tread on me Trump country but that doesn’t bother me at all. I love the desert vibe in that region and sure you gotta drive uphill to get to the snow you barely ever have to shovel or deal with the inconvenience that comes with heavy snow. One thing that I’ve heard is that the Mormon community is really nice at first while they try and convert you but if you resist you will eventually get a cold shoulder. I think it could get lonely. Cedar City is a college town so maybe there’s a bit more diversity there but I can’t say for sure. You can definitely feel their judgement with their eyes around there but they still do it with a smile.

There’s quite a bit of that hard core polygamist culture down there. I’m a supporter of religious freedom and all but it does have that oppression of woman vibe to it. I’m not sure I love that but everyone I’ve encountered from that group has been very nice.

it’s definitely time to get in while you can, the whole area is exploding and the Californian developers are eyeing up every town. There’s a lot of retirees coming to southern Utah.

And two hours a day eventually adds up to being a good chunk of your life Jim. It sounds like you’ve got a good thing figured out now. Ski towns definitely feel lonely during the off seasons and there isn’t much to do while waiting for the snow to melt.


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## snoseek (Mar 18, 2021)

If I ended up back out there I would probably go to fruita as I like being down in the desert, almost year round mtb, moab is close, daily convenience of gj is ten minutes, powderhorn is a fun local hill and colorado resorts are all probably an easier drive than Denver's at this point. Then again I really am all set with being in an actual ski town.


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## abc (Mar 18, 2021)

crank said:


> health is a big factor in all our plans


That's actually a big part when choosing where to live. 

Mountain towns may have great orthopedics to fix up broken bone and torn ligaments for the adrenalin junkie. How about block arteries of a retiree?


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

2Planker said:


> I've been to Smithers BC. Buddy grew up there and went to play hockey at Quinnipiac before getting drafted by San Jose


What did you think?


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

snoseek said:


> If I ended up back out there I would probably go to fruita as I like being down in the desert, almost year round mtb, moab is close, daily convenience of gj is ten minutes, powderhorn is a fun local hill and colorado resorts are all probably an easier drive than Denver's at this point. Then again I really am all set with being in an actual ski town.


I was going to mention GJ. It’s an awesome area.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

crank said:


> All the issues...
> 
> Cost
> Transportation
> ...


I had one of my most terrifying falls ever off the east rim just past NBC on a surprisingly icy day. Lost an edge on my first turn and ended up going on a slide for life on my back and head first. I’ll never forget watching all of the trees and rocks go by me as I flailed and couldn’t stop myself. I was hauling ass for probably 3 or 400 hundred feet. It was an extremely close call and left me with a new respect for the mountains and a healthy dose of ptsd. I learned a lot about observing conditions and risk management that day! 

whitefish is a fairly tame mountain but there’s definitely a couple spots that can throw you for a loop every now and then.


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## mikec142 (Mar 18, 2021)

These are all great responses.  For me, there is still so much unknown that I don't want to go too far down the planning road.  For the most part, I've been a lifelong NJ resident.  I have a college freshman and HS junior who I adore and I'd like to think they adore us back.  My wife and I are very close with our parents who both live in the same town as us.  When my kids were young, our parents were very helpful with our kids.  If we needed to work late, there was always someone to help out.  All four parents range in age from 75-78.  They are still active and healthy, but who knows how long that lasts.  Is it fair for my family and I to pack up and move just when they might start needing our help?  We are very tight knit across the three generations and while I'd love to get out of the NJ rat race...I'm not sure it's happening anytime soon.  The real thing will be to see where my kids settle down.  My fondest wish is that they end up near each other and if so, wherever that is, my wife and I will end up there.  If one ends up in LA and the other Florida...then all bets are off.


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## kbroderick (Mar 18, 2021)

abc said:


> The point is he's RICH. Renting can add up. Whilst owning maybe a big pain in the ass, you stands to gain in capital appreciation while living in it. Even if it doesn't appreciate in value, you still get to live "rent free" in exchange for your hassle/PITA.
> 
> So for those who aren't rich, owning is their way of renting, without paying rent. More precisely, they pay rent with their labor.



If you're renting to stay mobile, there's also the cost of needing to find a new rental every x weeks or months. If you're renting for a month and have a well-padded checkbook, that's not a particularly big lift; if your budget is tighter, or you're looking to find a place for longer-term residence, that's more of a challenge, especially if your desired rental period is peak busy time for the location.

IMO, characteristics to look for would be:
a) decent skiing: at least 1500 vertical feet of skiing, and the right combination of snowfall and weather that you get to ski the whole mountain (including trees and such) more often than not. Some challenge is good, of course, but that can take a lot of forms and certainly doesn't need to be Jackson/Big Sky/Bridger/KH-type options. Also, being a second- or third-tier ski area rather than a major destination can have huge benefits in terms of reduced crowding; I think I'd rather retire at Bolton Valley than at Killington, all things considered. Killington on a weekday sleeper storm is pretty damn good, but BV (at least when I last spent time there) offers fresh tracks far longer after the storm.
If you are interested in uphill travel, I'd add:
a.i) a liberal uphill policy that seems unlikely to change for pre/post-season access
a.ii) good access to local backcountry skiing, ideally on public lands (this also hedges against changes in a.i)
b) a real local community. Killington comes up short in this regard—there is a community of year-round residents, but it's overwhelmed by the seasonal visitors and tourists. BV probably has even fewer local residents, but the visitors tends to be relatively local and don't overwhelm it the way the New Yorkers do Killington on busy weekends. MRV may be among the best examples, but cost of living is substantial.
c) also being a significant draw for other forms of outdoor recreation (whether that be climbing, mountain biking, fly fishing, or what-have-you). Big bonus points if that happens to be your favored off-season activity, but regardless, it helps draw like-minded people into the area.
d) not near a major destination airport. Yes, I realize this is a downside for a resident's ability to travel cheaply, but it works in reverse, too—it makes it harder for people to visit cheaply, plus they tend to put major hubs in densely populated areas.
e) having a cost of living and tax structure that works with your finances (this may vary with your type(s) of income as well as the amounts)

I'm sure there are towns throughout the west that meet the above criteria, as well. I'm familiar with one and I'm not naming it because it's already growing more than I'd like.


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## PAabe (Mar 18, 2021)

x10003q said:


> Glenwood Springs, Co. 12 miles to Sunlight Mtn


Two of my aunts and uncles used to live out there.  My one aunt who was the big skier worked at Whiteface then Aspen Highlands and skied backcountry, before my time.  Needless to say they ended up in South Carolina and now live on a old cruiser boat doing the loop.  The other aunt and uncle (nurse and mechanic) lived out behind Silt there quite a bit longer, we used to visit them but mostly in the summer.  The extent of my experience skiing out west is therefore a few times at Sunlight.  They had to do the whole water truck deal and stuff.  They skied Sunlight and Steamboat but were more interested in the summer activities - now they live in an RV and hang out at the beach a lot.  They really lived in the middle of nowhere by Silt but even Silt was starting to get suburbanized by the time they left.


cdskier said:


> Not really ideal for skiing, but the Finger Lakes is one place I could see wanting to live.


I should be getting out of college soon, may have to consider looking for jobs in N Pa or upstate NY.  The hills may not be big but at least they get dumps of snow- good for cross country!  You're even then not a super far drive from the coast but boy is it different up there.  Lots of relatively small places so that you could easily have a ski area in your back yard.  Good hiking, biking, paddling, sailing, close to the Adirondacks which are just about my favorite place to be.  Seems like a great area.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 18, 2021)

A related question 
- places to live where you can day trip (under 6hr roundtrip) to both skiing at least 1000' vertical and warm-enough-to-swim ocean beaches

Really only 3 options in the US

1. Philly-NJ-NYC region (fair to good skiing, nice beaches)
2. Boston region (very good skiing, beaches a bit cold)
3. LA region (best beaches and I believe best skiing of any of them - but I have never skied there)

I live in NJ so at least have access to both. And can be at a beach in 45 min and be booting up at Blue Mt in 95 min or at Hunter in 170 min.


----------



## dblskifanatic (Mar 18, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> A related question
> - places to live where you can day trip (under 6hr roundtrip) to both skiing at least 1000' vertical and warm-enough-to-swim ocean beaches
> 
> Really only 3 options in the US
> ...



LA definiely the best beaches, skiing local 1.5 hours Snow Summit and Mountain High are like skiing NE.  Mammoth is 5.5 miles away
Boston good beaches along National Seashore but the best skiing is not a easy to get to I I want since I live here now and have dogs

I would prefer not to be around a larger city.  Smaller city is good.  Colorado Springs feels like a smaller city and 2-2.5 hours gets you where you need to be to ski but water is a limited quantity - mostly reservoirs.


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## FBGM (Mar 18, 2021)

Can’t find a home within the 3 PC zip codes for under $1m right now. (Ok, there’s maybe 1 or 2 but still) 

Idaho and Montana would be cheaper bets right now. Less people finding the goods up there. Sun Valley, McCall, Whitefish, Schweitzer.


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## PAabe (Mar 18, 2021)

Yeah I have to agree, mid atlantic here is definitely not a bad place to be.  I am not a big fan of the beach but I do like going down to the bay.
Great hiking, biking, and paddling where I am right now.  Decent ski areas within 2 hours, however, cross country skiing here sucks - last year I got to cross country for about 1 hour here when it snowed in the morning in november and melted by noon.  Most of the little towns and cities around here have relatively dense gridded downtowns.

Reading, Allentown, Scranton, or Williamsport would not be a bad place to be imo.  Even further west like Altoona, Johnstown, Pittsburgh, Morgantown, you can still get to the snow in the Laurel Highlands or Canaan Valley easily - but then you really are getting far from Vermont and stuff.

Hot take, if you're not a vert snob maybe Michigan or Minnesota?


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 18, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> LA definiely the best beaches, skiing local 1.5 hours Snow Summit and Mountain High are like skiing NE.  Mammoth is 5.5 miles away
> Boston good beaches along National Seashore but the best skiing is not a easy to get to I I want since I live here now and have dogs
> 
> I would prefer not to be around a larger city.  Smaller city is good.  Colorado Springs feels like a smaller city and 2-2.5 hours gets you where you need to be to ski but water is a limited quantity - mostly reservoirs.


Thanks - LA is out then.
Think I will stick with NJ as long as I want both.
Easy day trip to Pokes, long day or easy overnight to Skills, VT or Adks worth it if I can spend 2 nights.
Belmar Beach a 45 min all highway drive. Might take longer than that on a weekend to find parking and haul gear from there to sand.
Proximity to NYC and Philly also a plus.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Yeah I have to agree, mid atlantic here is definitely not a bad place to be.  I am not a big fan of the beach but I do like going down to the bay.
> Great hiking, biking, and paddling where I am right now.  Decent ski areas within 2 hours, however, cross country skiing here sucks - last year I got to cross country for about 1 hour here when it snowed in the morning in november and melted by noon.  Most of the little towns and cities around here have relatively dense gridded downtowns.
> 
> Reading, Allentown, Scranton, or Williamsport would not be a bad place to be imo.  Even further west like Altoona, Johnstown, Pittsburgh, Morgantown, you can still get to the snow in the Laurel Highlands or Canaan Valley easily - but then you really are getting far from Vermont and stuff.
> ...



everything about this post makes me want to vom. no offense.

scranton?! michigan!? i dream of retiring to the rust belt, a stone's throw from really shitty skiing, and nowhere near the ocean.


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## mikec142 (Mar 18, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> A related question
> - places to live where you can day trip (under 6hr roundtrip) to both skiing at least 1000' vertical and warm-enough-to-swim ocean beaches
> 
> Really only 3 options in the US
> ...


Gonna guess that you and I live within 15 minutes of each other...


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 18, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> Gonna guess that you and I live within 15 minutes of each other...


Lawrenceville NJ


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## x10003q (Mar 18, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Yeah I have to agree, mid atlantic here is definitely not a bad place to be.  I am not a big fan of the beach but I do like going down to the bay.
> Great hiking, biking, and paddling where I am right now.  Decent ski areas within 2 hours, however, cross country skiing here sucks - last year I got to cross country for about 1 hour here when it snowed in the morning in november and melted by noon.  Most of the little towns and cities around here have relatively dense gridded downtowns.
> 
> Reading, Allentown, Scranton, or Williamsport would not be a bad place to be imo.  Even further west like Altoona, Johnstown, Pittsburgh, Morgantown, you can still get to the snow in the Laurel Highlands or Canaan Valley easily - but then you really are getting far from Vermont and stuff.
> ...


If you are going to deal with relentless cold and frostbite, do you want to earn it on 30 second runs on ice in the Midwest? You might as well stay in PA or NYS/Finger Lakes and at least you can drive to decent skiing.


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## mikec142 (Mar 18, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Lawrenceville NJ


I'm in Westfield...so closer to an hour between us.  That said, it's 45 minutes to Long Branch with no traffic and 90 minutes to Blue.  I really don't ski the Pokes anymore. Would rather tack on another hour and get to the Catskills.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> These are all great responses.  For me, there is still so much unknown that I don't want to go too far down the planning road.  For the most part, I've been a lifelong NJ resident.  I have a college freshman and HS junior who I adore and I'd like to think they adore us back.  My wife and I are very close with our parents who both live in the same town as us.  When my kids were young, our parents were very helpful with our kids.  If we needed to work late, there was always someone to help out.  All four parents range in age from 75-78.  They are still active and healthy, but who knows how long that lasts.  Is it fair for my family and I to pack up and move just when they might start needing our help?  We are very tight knit across the three generations and while I'd love to get out of the NJ rat race...I'm not sure it's happening anytime soon.  The real thing will be to see where my kids settle down.  My fondest wish is that they end up near each other and if so, wherever that is, my wife and I will end up there.  If one ends up in LA and the other Florida...then all bets are off.



Definitely valid concerns.  We live where we do because my MIL is 30 minutes up the road.  She helps out all the time with our 2 and 6 year old.  My parents split from New England to Florida when they retired as golf is more their thing than skiing.  It's fun to visit them and will only get better as our kids get a bit older and travel better, but they miss out on a ton with their grandchildren.   

Who knows where our kids end up 20 years from now when we retire, but hopefully it's New Hampshire.   We have no desire to leave.  NH isn't the best at anything, but it's very good for everything you could want for outdoor pursuits.  Skiing, hiking, boating, beaches are all right here and within a reasonable drive.  And we are 1:15 to Boston or Portland if we desire city entertainment.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 18, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> I'm in Westfield...so closer to an hour between us.  That said, it's 45 minutes to Long Branch with no traffic and 90 minutes to Blue.  I really don't ski the Pokes anymore. Would rather tack on another hour and get to the Catskills.


2 years ago we got a steal on Blue passes ($600 total for me and 2 kids)

My most common ski trip last 2 years with Epic pass is to leave home ~730 am Sat, ski Hunter ~11-4 (cause also need time to get gas, food, hit head and boot up),  get dinner a $75 room at Saugerties HoJo 30 min away, hit McD's drive thru for breakfast, ski from opening til I've had enough Sunday and get home by early eve.

Ski/drive ratio about the same as a day trip to Pokes and I get in better skiing and 2 days instead of one. Why I will hit 40 days this year for first time.

Long weekend or more and we go to VT


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## jaytrem (Mar 18, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> I'm in Westfield...so closer to an hour between us.  That said, it's 45 minutes to Long Branch with no traffic and 90 minutes to Blue.  I really don't ski the Pokes anymore. Would rather tack on another hour and get to the Catskills.


Oh you're right next door, I'm in Cranford.


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## PAabe (Mar 18, 2021)

lol I have been convinced to abandon any hair brained ideas of moving to the midwest.  Pittsburgh is a lot nicer than it used to be though, and you can ski the Laurels, Blue Knob, and Canaan Valley which is as good as you get between the Catskills and Colorado.  Maybe not to retire but I would not mind working in that area - Laurel highlands and WV are really nice in the summer too.

And I still would not mind moving north a bit to Reading, Allentown, or Scranton, to get the poconos squarely in my backyard and get NY and VT into the day-tripping realm


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2021)

PAabe said:


> lol I have been convinced to abandon any hair brained ideas of moving to the midwest.  Pittsburgh is a lot nicer than it used to be though, and you can ski the Laurels, Blue Knob, and Canaan Valley which is as good as you get between the Catskills and Colorado.
> 
> And I still would not mind moving north a bit to Reading, Allentown, or Scranton, to get the poconos squarely in my backyard and get NY and VT into the day-tripping realm



i havent been to either place, but i would bet that mount bohemia on the upper peninsula of Michigan disagrees with that canaan valley claim

*this is not an endorsement of moving to Michigan for the skiing. but i'm told there's 1000 vert of legit gnar with massive lake effect*


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2021)

I spent two years in West Virginia and western Maryland at Snowshoe and Wisp; both were employment related moves.  I wanted to kill myself


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## LonghornSkier (Mar 18, 2021)

I will have the opportunity to move to Minneapolis/St. Paul within the next 2 years if I desire for work.

Seriously considering it... Only been there once but seems to have a lot of things I like, except for big mountain skiing. But great summers, good winter activities, thriving economy (at least compared to the rest of the midwest), reasonable housing prices, big four sports teams, etc..


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## PAabe (Mar 18, 2021)

Saving grace of Laurels and Canaan Valley(+Timberline+Whitegrass) is that they actually get snow but yes cannot be compared to new england haha

Indy Pass seems to have the best of the midwest bumps on it other than Bohemia?

idk maybe I have to move to michigan just for the bit now


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## FBGM (Mar 18, 2021)

PAabe said:


> lol I have been convinced to abandon any hair brained ideas of moving to the midwest.  Pittsburgh is a lot nicer than it used to be though, and you can ski the Laurels, Blue Knob, and Canaan Valley which is as good as you get between the Catskills and Colorado.  Maybe not to retire but I would not mind working in that area - Laurel highlands and WV are really nice in the summer too.
> 
> And I still would not mind moving north a bit to Reading, Allentown, or Scranton, to get the poconos squarely in my backyard and get NY and VT into the day-tripping realm


I grew up in the Poconos. Scranton is a dump. Don’t go there.

Still some nice spots in Poconos here and there. Just avoid the drugs and needles all over. Farther north you go the better. North Pikr Co. Wayne Co. I mean it’s middle of fuck all up Wayne Co. can ski elk. And have 100 acres and no neighbors.


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## NYDB (Mar 18, 2021)

HowieT2 said:


> nelson, BC


Yes nelson is definitely one of those towns.  Rossland, Fernie, Golden, Revy, etc.    Not exactly secret spots


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## snoseek (Mar 18, 2021)

Scranton and ideal or ski town dont seem together but some people can find happiness anywhere. It's all about keeping up a routine and getting after it.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 18, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Saving grace of Laurels and Canaan Valley(+Timberline+Whitegrass) is that they actually get snow but yes cannot be compared to new england haha


It wasn't just the skiing that sucked in comparison to New England, it was the culture.

Shitty food, no entertainment and extreme poverty everywhere.  I found it horribly depressing.  About the only redeeming quality I found in the area is it's fantastic for whitewater.  Beyond that I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to live in Appalachia unless they were born there.


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## PAabe (Mar 18, 2021)

Pitt has a pretty good vibe now but I'll believe you that much of the rest of the rust belt and Appalachia is downright depressing.  WV is beautiful to visit though.

Are any areas of upstate NY doing alright or is it all pretty rust-belt ish?  There has been mention of like Saratoga Springs and Figer lakes but is there much of an economy besides tourism and education?


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 18, 2021)

not exactly update but the hudson valley is vibrant and has been for years now. its crazy expensive and even more so since covid. people who could afford to do so snatched up the homes. towns like beacon, hudson, kingston, cold spring, hyde park, peekskill. all bustling with food, beer, shopping, culture, access to nature. $$$. newburgh and poughkeepsie, to an extent kingston, haven't gone full on expensive yet, and have room to run, imo.

further upstate, i mentioned in the other thread, i think troy can be a great little city.

middletown on 17 has potential. equilibrium brewing has pumped some life into downtown.

i'm less familiar with places further north and west. lake placid is chill. i hear saranac is great. my friends mom lives in plattsburgh and we sometimes crash there before driving to jay or stowe. its fine i guess. its far. finger lakes region is nice, as is ithaca.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 18, 2021)

FBGM said:


> I grew up in the Poconos. Scranton is a dump. Don’t go there.
> 
> Still some nice spots in Poconos here and there. Just avoid the drugs and needles all over. Farther north you go the better. North Pikr Co. Wayne Co. I mean it’s middle of fuck all up Wayne Co. can ski elk. And have 100 acres and no neighbors.


Binghamton NY wouldn't be a bad place to be for PA/NY skiing. 45 min from Elk or Greek Peak and 2 hrs from Belleayre or Plattekill - 4 pretty nice places an easy distance for a day trip. And probably a fair amount going on locally as a college town.


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## cdskier (Mar 18, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Are any areas of upstate NY doing alright or is it all pretty rust-belt ish?  There has been mention of like Saratoga Springs and Figer lakes but is there much of an economy besides tourism and education?



Finger Lakes is a mix and quite diverse depending on where you are. The wine industry is growing fairly rapidly up there (and is an area I personally find quite appealing and intriguing. If I could take what I know now and go back in time, I'd have been very interested in a career path in that area instead of what I do now). Technically even Rochester is part of the Finger Lakes, so you do have a lot of tech stuff too.

Here's an article from a little over a year ago related to economic development in the Finger Lakes:








						'LEADING THE WAY': Finger Lakes serves as prime example of what Upstate can do for NY economy | Fingerlakes1.com
					

Vinnie Esposito says the kind of activity and development seen in communities like Geneva and Seneca Falls is emblematic of the possibilities when communities rally around a single-idea or plan. In a recent interview with FingerLakes1.com, the Finger Lakes Regional Director for Empire State...




					fingerlakes1.com


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## gladerider (Mar 18, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Oh you're right next door, I'm in Cranford.


didn't realize i had so many of my neighbors here all these years. i'm in new providence.


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## NYDB (Mar 18, 2021)

Damn this thread is turning out to be pretty depressing.   Scranton, Binghamton?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Gary Indiana or Detroit


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## jaytrem (Mar 18, 2021)

gladerider said:


> didn't realize i had so many of my neighbors here all these years. i'm in new providence.



Who knew Union County was such a hot spot for AZ???  Must be the ideal distance for ski areas, beaches and NYC.

Edit: of course it can't compare Gary Indiana


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## mikec142 (Mar 18, 2021)

jaytrem said:


> Oh you're right next door, I'm in Cranford.


It was a sad day when A Toute Heure and 100 Steps closed.  We get take out from Old City Grill and Ambeli all the time.


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## jaytrem (Mar 18, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> It was a sad day when A Toute Heure and 100 Steps closed.  We get take out from Old City Grill and Ambeli all the time.


Indeed.  Luckily we did get to ATH for our anniversary right before COVID.  I did notice a Japanese place moved in when I drove by this week.  Sounds like 100 Steps might be back one of these days.


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## PAabe (Mar 18, 2021)

Scranton just hasn't been discovered yet.  Up and coming ski town just like Aspen after the mines left.  Cash in your $GME and $MTN earnings and invest now!  We can get Les Otten in on it and turn the whole Lackawanna valley into the next big mega-resort and use a few small traverses to connect to Elk!.  Close commute to NYC! Renowned cultural instutitions such as Steamtown NHS and Lackawanna coal mine tour! Low property values! Fabulous shopping at the Steamtown mall! World famous polka music!  Set the gentrification trend and profit! I am an idiot flatlander and this is certainly not financial advice


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## Smellytele (Mar 18, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i havent been to either place, but i would bet that mount bohemia on the upper peninsula of Michigan disagrees with that canaan valley claim
> 
> *this is not an endorsement of moving to Michigan for the skiing. but i'm told there's 1000 vert of legit gnar with massive lake effect*


Went to Mount Bohemia 2 years ago. Had a blast. the trails all have natural snow - no snow making. I drove 12 hours each way from Cleveland. Slept one night in the mini van and 1 at their hostel. Met this crazy ski patroller guy who actually skied with me and some other guy on closed trails. Also no grooming for the most part either. All spring sunny bumps and trees.


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## JimG. (Mar 18, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> not exactly update but the hudson valley is vibrant and has been for years now. its crazy expensive and even more so since covid. people who could afford to do so snatched up the homes. towns like beacon, hudson, kingston, cold spring, hyde park, peekskill. all bustling with food, beer, shopping, culture, access to nature. $$$. newburgh and poughkeepsie, to an extent kingston, haven't gone full on expensive yet, and have room to run, imo.
> 
> further upstate, i mentioned in the other thread, i think troy can be a great little city.
> 
> ...


My middle son Peter lives and works in Ithaca. That's another area we are considering retiring to but I'd prefer to be closer to the much better skiing in the ADKS and VT.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I live in NJ and have had this feeling growing and growing for quite some time. I just have absolutely no idea where I'd want to go. Really the main thing keeping me in NJ is family connections (parents, grandmother, brother is 30 minutes away in Rockland county NY with his wife and my nephew, only 3 hours from my sister and her family in Baltimore, etc). I do also enjoy all the great BYOB restaurants we have in NJ around me. But that's about it.
> 
> I've had a 45 mile commute to work (from north jersey to central jersey) for over 15 years now. Before the pandemic I was up to working 2 days remotely from home and only had to make the drive 3 days a week. Now after not doing that commute at all for over a year, I don't know how I can go back to it. There's so much more time in the day when I'm not spending 2+ hours a day driving (and not having to deal with all the idiots on the road has reduced stress significantly as well).
> 
> ...


Ah, I replied to you about living in a mountain town in the wrong reply!

off seasons can definitely feel lonely.


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## chuckstah (Mar 18, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> A related question
> - places to live where you can day trip (under 6hr roundtrip) to both skiing at least 1000' vertical and warm-enough-to-swim ocean beaches
> 
> Really only 3 options in the US
> ...


From my southern NH location I can be at Crotched in under an hour. They claim 1000 vert, but it's less. 1:15 to Sunapee with legit 1400 vertical.
For beaches it's under an hour to Hampton and a couple other beaches, or just under 2 hours to Cape Cod. I really want to relocate further north, but beach access is certainly a factor.


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## snoseek (Mar 18, 2021)

I like to hit the beach a few times a summer when the water is actually warm. Around here thats pretty much late july and August. The food is the best part. The shitshow is the worst.

With that said I could easily get further inland to Vermont or Northern NH, spend more time on the lakes, which in my opinion is just better, warmer and more relaxing. A couple daytrips or even an overnight with the family who is solidly planted in Coastal NH when I get the urge.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Damn this thread is turning out to be pretty depressing.   Scranton, Binghamton?
> 
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Gary Indiana or Detroit


Yeah, wtf? I thought this was about mountain towns. The thought of spending the rest of my skiing years at Montage makes me want to hang em up for good.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 18, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Went to Mount Bohemia 2 years ago. Had a blast. the trails all have natural snow - no snow making. I drove 12 hours each way from Cleveland. Slept one night in the mini van and 1 at their hostel. Met this crazy ski patroller guy who actually skied with me and some other guy on closed trails. Also no grooming for the most part either. All spring sunny bumps and trees.


The UP is a rad area.


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## downdraft (Mar 18, 2021)

A friend and former client spent vacations his last few work years looking for a place to retire out west. He settled on Grand Junction, CO. Never been, but he is very happy there and he tells me cost of living is low. Powderhorn is nearby and has high ratings for a smaller, less crowded, no frills Colorado area. Several major ski resorts within 2 -3  hour drive as I understand it.


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## cdskier (Mar 18, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Ah, I replied to you about living in a mountain town in the wrong reply!
> 
> off seasons can definitely feel lonely.



Missed that and had to go back and look for it....



raisingarizona said:


> And two hours a day eventually adds up to being a good chunk of your life Jim. It sounds like you’ve got a good thing figured out now. Ski towns definitely feel lonely during the off seasons and there isn’t much to do while waiting for the snow to melt.



And found it! Current situation is only temporary. And only works right now due to our offices still being closed so being able to work remotely full time. Although to be honest there's not necessarily much value in forcing us all to go back to the office. The majority of people I work with aren't physically in my office anyway. My office is in NJ. My current manager is in Germany. Some of my colleagues in my dept are in our offices in MA or PA. Other people I work with are in numerous other countries around the world. So at least for my role, working remotely isn't that much different than working in the office. Of course I have no idea if management will see it the same way. I suspect eventually they'll want us back in the office to some degree.


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## skijay (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm looking to relocate to Berkshire County (MA) and I am getting close to making that a reality - once the market settles down.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

downdraft said:


> A friend and former client spent vacations his last few work years looking for a place to retire out west. He settled on Grand Junction, CO. Never been, but he is very happy there and he tells me cost of living is low. Powderhorn is nearby and has high ratings for a smaller, less crowded, no frills Colorado area. Several major ski resorts within 2 -3  hour drive as I understand it.


And he’s about to have one of the worlds best shuttle mountain bike epics right in his back yard. The Plunge i think is going to be around 30 miles long and over 6k of descending.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 19, 2021)

chuckstah said:


> From my southern NH location I can be at Crotched in under an hour. They claim 1000 vert, but it's less. 1:15 to Sunapee with legit 1400 vertical.
> For beaches it's under an hour to Hampton and a couple other beaches, or just under 2 hours to Cape Cod. I really want to relocate further north, but beach access is certainly a factor.


1:15 to Sunapee 2 hrs to Cape Cod sounds pretty nice. But what is that drive to CC like on a summer weekend?


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## thebigo (Mar 19, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Littleton has Moore reservoir, but there's no marina on that lake.


What is the deal with the Moore reservoir? Why is is it not developed? Does the utility own the land? It is a 3000+ acre body of water in a gorgeous area with excellent high way access.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> 1:15 to Sunapee 2 hrs to Cape Cod sounds pretty nice. But what is that drive to CC like on a summer weekend?



It can take two hours to get to Cape Cod from Cape Cod on a summer weekend.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 19, 2021)

thebigo said:


> What is the deal with the Moore reservoir? Why is is it not developed? Does the utility own the land? It is a 3000+ acre body of water in a gorgeous area with excellent high way access.





			Account Suspended
		


Conservation mainly

But also being NH largest hydropower station would make waterfront development for boat docks very difficult whether it's private or commercial as the water level fluctuates ten feet as the plant is used during power generation. 

On the one hand it's kinda great to have such a huge body of water preserved for it's natural attributes and wildlife.  On the other hand for those who like pleasure boating and would love to have a boat slip on a huge lake near Cannon, it stinks.  

My boat lives on Winnipesaukee permanently for now, but I plan on getting a trailer someday to explore other water bodies and that reservoir is certainly on the list.


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## drjeff (Mar 19, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> It can take two hours to get to Cape Cod from Cape Cod on a summer weekend.



Isn't that the truth!!

My in-laws live in Falmouth near the Mashpee line. The community they live in is on an peninsula right off of 28. It's just over 3 miles from their house to the closest Dunkin Donuts in Falmouth (about 1/2 of that distance is on the low traffic main road in their community).  On a weekend morning in the Summer season it will often take over an hour round trip to make the morning coffee and breakfast sandwich run!!

I don't go to my in-laws in the Summer season very much anymore because of the traffic!


----------



## boston_e (Mar 19, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I've had a place in southern VT for coming up on 25 years now.  I plan on moving on once the kids are grown up and the length of the car ride  for a weekend trip is no longer the primary consideration.  It just doesn't snow as much there anymore.  Or maybe I should say it seems to rain more.
> 
> I don't know if another place further north might be the ticket.  Sugarbush?  Maybe Saddleback?  I like the stowe area but Vail ownership makes it unappealing.
> 
> ...



As you describe, we hope finances allow for us to keep our modest place in Vermont but then do "extended" ski trips..... Go spend 3 weeks in Utah one year, a few weeks on Colorado the next etc etc


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## jimmywilson69 (Mar 19, 2021)

LOL at Scranton or Binghamton being good places to retire to.  Sure they are ok places you could live a "normal" life  and have reasonable access to ski country, but I sure as hell am not retiring to Scranton...


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 19, 2021)

13 months ago if you had asked me where I wanted to retire I would have said Colorado - maybe Boulder. Back when hopping on a plane seemed like something one could do at a moments notice.

Having realized how fragile our ability to travel is, and could become again at any moment, I realize I would not want to live further than I could drive in a day from the most important people in my life. While other people may come and go, I am sure that will always include my now 13yo twins. So as long as they are both on the East Coast - which I will encourage more heavily in light of fragility of ability to travel - I will be as well.

If I were to move closer to a mountain area, it would quite likely be somewhere like Woodstock, NY - a nice liberal town with some fun stuff to do that is within 2.5 hrs of most of the folks in my life, within 30-60 min of Belleayre, Plattekill, Hunter and Windham, and within day trip range of at least Gore, Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley and Okemo - so 10 pretty nice options to have without needing a hotel.

That's assuming the climate doesn't change to the point that skiing at those places ceases to be viable. And if my WFH option becomes permanent, I could see making that move in 4 years and a couple months when my kids graduate High School.


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## Smellytele (Mar 19, 2021)

Well my youngest son is heading to CO for college and says he wants to end up staying out there. Not on the high plains of Colorado Springs, Denver or Boulder but west of the tunnel. 
my oldest who is graduating from college this year and his girlfriend are taking a trip out there in late August to see if they like it and are going to try to set up some interviews for jobs. 
my in-laws live here for the summer and fla  October to May so they aren’t holding us here for the most part. My parents passed away and not real close to any of my 4 siblings. 
don’t care for much arts and entertainment (being west of the tunnel you can still make it back to Denver or red rocks for a show or 2) and can find a good unpretentious place to eat anywhere.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 19, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Well my youngest son is heading to CO for college and says he wants to end up staying out there. Not on the high plains of Colorado Springs, Denver or Boulder but west of the tunnel.
> my oldest who is graduating from college this year and his girlfriend are taking a trip out there in late August to see if they like it and are going to try to set up some interviews for jobs.
> my in-laws live here for the summer and fla  October to May so they aren’t holding us here for the most part. My parents passed away and not real close to any of my 4 siblings.
> don’t care for much arts and entertainment (being west of the tunnel you can still make it back to Denver or red rocks for a show or 2) and can find a good unpretentious place to eat anywhere.



frisco also has a music venue now (10 mile music hall) that books some decent bands. tho i heard they had a big issue with refunds to patrons and artists in connection with covid. they may not survive. but i would assume some other operator takes the space.

they also have shows at the very awesome dillon amphitheatre, on the water, like 10 min from copper


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## trackbiker (Mar 19, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> Binghamton NY wouldn't be a bad place to be for PA/NY skiing. 45 min from Elk or Greek Peak and 2 hrs from Belleayre or Plattekill - 4 pretty nice places an easy distance for a day trip. And probably a fair amount going on locally as a college town.


You obviously haven't been to Binghampton lately..... I have and no thanks!


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Mar 19, 2021)

trackbiker said:


> You obviously haven't been to Binghampton lately..... I have and no thanks!


No I have never spent any time there other than driving through. Just picked it out on a map.


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## Hawk (Mar 19, 2021)

abc said:


> That's why I'll never leave NYC.
> 
> I may get a place for a few years for the skiing, or other outdoor recreations. But I won't live there year round. I need to spend at least 1/2 year in NYC to satisfy my cultural craving.
> 
> ...


I can understand.  Everybody is different.  For me, and this is my opinion only, NYC is too big, too dirty, too many people.  Where I am is just big enough, on the ocean and is rural just down the street and some of the best mountain biking right out my door. Boston 25 minutes away, Sugarbush is 3.25 hours away.  

I have been tied down to Sugarbush because I bought there.  Don't get me wrong it is very nice and I have loved it.  But in retirement, we do not plan to be tied down.  We don't have kids, mortgages, dogs, cats, anything.  Just our families to consider.  We are now accumulating the funds we will need to make this happen so we won't worry about cost.  We are going to go everywhere and do things we never could because of commitments.  We are going to do this before we can't.  That is the plan.


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## jimk (Mar 19, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Well my youngest son is heading to CO for college and says he wants to end up staying out there. Not on the high plains of Colorado Springs, Denver or Boulder but west of the tunnel.
> my oldest who is graduating from college this year and his girlfriend are taking a trip out there in late August to see if they like it and are going to try to set up some interviews for jobs.
> my in-laws live here for the summer and fla  October to May so they aren’t holding us here for the most part. My parents passed away and not real close to any of my 4 siblings.
> don’t care for much arts and entertainment (being west of the tunnel you can still make it back to Denver or red rocks for a show or 2) and can find a good unpretentious place to eat anywhere.


Frisco/Silverthorne/Summit County is great for lots of ski areas in close proximity, but I kind of prefer further west over by Avon/Minturn/Eagle.  Like Summit County it looks like a chunk of suburbia tucked between the interstate and the mtns which may not be super picturesque, but there is convenience and familiarity in having Walmart, Home Depot, microbrewery, and plenty restaurants nearby.  Over there you could use Eagle airport and stay away from Denver and Denver traffic for months at a time.  I think real estate up at Beaver Creek resort is out of the question unless you have millions to spend, but down by Avon/Minturn/Eagle you might find something affordable.  You might even find a condo within walking distance of the gondi that goes from the slopes into the town of Avon.  Beaver Creek ski area is a big upscale ski tourist magnet, but still has a slightly lower crowd factor than many other large ski areas in that part of CO.   BC also retains snow well and has great grooming.  They open a lot of terrain quickly and it stays in pretty good shape until closing day.  The full vertical of the trail layout is huge, something like 4k'.  BC is mostly known for intermediate terrain, but has some decent trees and very respectable bump runs.  You would quickly figure out how to get the best out of nearby Vail skiing too.  And Vail has entertainment/culture all year.  Avon/Eagle is only about 90 mins from Aspen too.  Another plus for that area is base elevation is relatively low (~7400') for CO, which is especially helpful for short term visitors from lowlands.

There are dozens/hundreds of good candidates.  It's fun to fantasize about any number of them.


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## 2Planker (Mar 19, 2021)

trackbiker said:


> You obviously haven't been to Binghampton lately..... I have and no thanks!


Binghampton ???  Scranton  ???  WTF are these people thinking  ?

Stayed in both many times when road tripping 16 hours from Ohio to Maine.
Definitely NOT the type of places I want to spend my "golden years".


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## PAabe (Mar 19, 2021)

Living retired in an RV and moving around for a few years could be an option although dealing with winterizing one and finding campsites definitely could be a PITA or even non feasibile for skiing.

Regarding Scranton, firstly, I am a dumbass for suggesting that, and secondly, that was regarding work opportunities definitely not retiring there - mostly named it for location as S2LL2S said - I realize scranton proper is pretty dumpy, no offense to scrantonians, however, it is marginally better than it once was.  Tax rates are generally fairly favorable in PA particularly for retirees and public education is generally above average which is a consideration for families.  Not stellar skiing in PA but ski areas around here exist, and lots of opportunity for outdoor recreation in the summer.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

2Planker said:


> Binghampton ???  Scranton  ???  WTF are these people thinking  ?
> 
> Stayed in both many times when road tripping 16 hours from Ohio to Maine.
> Definitely NOT the type of places I want to spend my "golden years".


Putting off the things we really want to do with our lives until the “golden years” is probably a lot of peoples first mistake. They aren’t really so “golden” as our bodies are naturally on a steady decline.

I often call the American dream the American nightmare. In a lot of ways it’s a sham.

I worked in a hospice center for a few years as a nursing assistant. I didn’t meet a single person on hospice that wished they had spent more of their life working or being concerned with impressing others. Most would tell me that I better do exactly what I wanted to because before I would know it I’d be in their positions.


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## Razor (Mar 19, 2021)

We're retired and could live pretty much anywhere we want.  But we have chosen to stay here in SE Mass.  Sure  it's a drive to ski.  We go every other week during the season, alternating between Sunday River and Lincoln, NH (no Vermont this year due to covid restrictions).  Generally we leave Sunday or Monday and come home Thursday or Friday.  We don't want to be tied down to one place.

What's nice about where we live is that we can road bike on back roads with little traffic right from our house.  We have plenty of places to hike with the dog.  And in 45 minutes or less we can be at the beach in Falmouth, Westport, Plymouth or Newport or in downtown Providence or Boston.  We spend a lot of time in the summer biking on the Cape or around Newport and Bristol.

I don't think I'd want to live year round in ski country.


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## Smellytele (Mar 19, 2021)

jimk said:


> Frisco/Silverthorne/Summit County is great for lots of ski areas in close proximity, but I kind of prefer further west over by Avon/Minturn/Eagle.  Like Summit County it looks like a chunk of suburbia tucked between the interstate and the mtns which may not be super picturesque, but there is convenience and familiarity in having Walmart, Home Depot, microbrewery, and plenty restaurants nearby.  Over there you could use Eagle airport and stay away from Denver and Denver traffic for months at a time.  I think real estate up at Beaver Creek resort is out of the question unless you have millions to spend, but down by Avon/Minturn/Eagle you might find something affordable.  You might even find a condo within walking distance of the gondi that goes from the slopes into the town of Avon.  Beaver Creek ski area is a big upscale ski tourist magnet, but still has a slightly lower crowd factor than many other large ski areas in that part of CO.   BC also retains snow well and has great grooming.  They open a lot of terrain quickly and it stays in pretty good shape until closing day.  The full vertical of the trail layout is huge, something like 4k'.  BC is mostly known for intermediate terrain, but has some decent trees and very respectable bump runs.  You would quickly figure out how to get the best out of nearby Vail skiing too.  And Vail has entertainment/culture all year.  Avon/Eagle is only about 90 mins from Aspen too.  Another plus for that area is base elevation is relatively low (~7400') for CO, which is especially helpful for short term visitors from lowlands.
> 
> There are dozens/hundreds of good candidates.  It's fun to fantasize about any number of them.
> View attachment 50973View attachment 50974


The Beav is fun.

When I said west of the tunnel i meant anywhere Dillon to eagle. Beyond that before you get to glenwood springs it is pretty barren.


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## Edd (Mar 19, 2021)

Hawk said:


> I can understand.  Everybody is different.  For me, and this is my opinion only, NYC is too big, too dirty, too many people.  Where I am is just big enough, on the ocean and is rural just down the street and some of the best mountain biking right out my door. Boston 25 minutes away, Sugarbush is 3.25 hours away.
> 
> I have been tied down to Sugarbush because I bought there.  Don't get me wrong it is very nice and I have loved it.  But in retirement, we do not plan to be tied down.  We don't have kids, mortgages, dogs, cats, anything.  Just our families to consider.  We are now accumulating the funds we will need to make this happen so we won't worry about cost.  We are going to go everywhere and do things we never could because of commitments.  We are going to do this before we can't.  That is the plan.


My wife and I are of a similar opinion to you. Have a decade or less of working left I hope and we’ve invested as opposed to buying property and have zero commitments. Hoping to do some real bouncing around when we step away from working but we’ll see.


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## 1dog (Mar 19, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Isn't that the truth!!
> 
> My in-laws live in Falmouth near the Mashpee line. The community they live in is on an peninsula right off of 28. It's just over 3 miles from their house to the closest Dunkin Donuts in Falmouth (about 1/2 of that distance is on the low traffic main road in their community).  On a weekend morning in the Summer season it will often take over an hour round trip to make the morning coffee and breakfast sandwich run!!
> 
> I don't go to my in-laws in the Summer season very much anymore because of the traffic!


CC and flex time make all the difference. Inlaws in Centerville in 1:15 mins from home if done right regarding timing. Wasn[t an issue at all last year due to covid. Bety flex time keeps it scattered this year. How much of a reduction to 9-5 Mon-Fri work at office days ? Even 20% less makes a difference. Before 1PM and after 8 POM Friday nights good. Never 8-1 Saturdays June/July/Aug - week rental shift day. Ever. Sunday nights? Crap shoot.  Warmest water outer Cape after July - plenty of sharks too!


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## Domeskier (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Putting off the things we really want to do with our lives until the “golden years” is probably a lot of peoples first mistake. They aren’t really so “golden” as our bodies are naturally on a steady decline.
> 
> I often call the American dream the American nightmare. In a lot of ways it’s a sham.
> 
> I worked in a hospice center for a few years as a nursing assistant. I didn’t meet a single person on hospice that wished they had spent more of their life working or being concerned with impressing others. Most would tell me that I better do exactly what I wanted to because before I would know it I’d be in their positions.



I expect that I would be more upset if, because I always did what I wanted to do when I was younger, I burdened my old decrepit future self with the indignities of work and want.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 19, 2021)

Edd said:


> My wife and I are of a similar opinion to you. Have a decade or less of working left I hope and we’ve invested as opposed to buying property and have zero commitments. Hoping to do some real bouncing around when we step away from working but we’ll see.



I pretty much let my career take me places.  Military got me to Europe where I skied some cool places and participated on the 7th Corps Ski Team, went back to VT skied mostly Jay and Burke while in school., Went to southern California and explored lots of beaches and skied Southern CA skis areas and was a working tourist for 8 years.  Moved to NH and lived in Concord NH which was a perfect location for a skiing family since it is well centered to get to everything VT, NH and ME.  Then moved to CO and was a working tourist for 5.5 years and got some great skiing in as well as hiking, paddle boarding, kayaking, mountain biking and dirt biking.  I will retire in five or so years and we plan to find more adventure.  Our kids are in California, Utah, Colorado and Alaska so we have places to stay.  Looking back, I am glad we never locked ourselves down, yet still have much more to try.

We thought we would like to be around Boston, but being here, we have changed our minds - can't win them all.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

Domeskier said:


> I expect that I would be more upset if, because I always did what I wanted to do when I was younger, I burdened my old decrepit future self with the indignities of work and want.


It’s a bit of a balancing act but the old, decrepit future is only a very short moment of our lives and not a part that I’d care to keep me from living my life in fear of “what may happen”. God, talk about fear of want, regretting not doing the things I dreamed of when I had my health is a much greater fear for me than being old. Seriously, that’s terrifying! Hell, if it gets real bad I’ll just pull a trigger or do way too much heroin.

Fear is a hell of a drug and the American Nightmare syndrome can’t survive without our fear.

Each his own. There’s no wrong or right, just sharing my personal thoughts and what every person that had one foot in their grave told me during my health care career experiment.

And besides, if you really are stoked on your decisions and life path there’s probably no need to get defensive on an Internet forum with complete strangers. . Yes, I am trolling you office guys just a tiny bit  but also hoping that can ignite a fire for some that are on the fence about getting out there more and living it up a little before it’s too late.


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## Domeskier (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> And besides, if you really are stoked on your decisions and life path there’s probably no need to get defensive on an Internet forum with complete strangers. .



The irony is thick with you.  Apparently "my personal thoughts" irked you so much you couldn't rest until you came back and added this little dig (yes, I saw your post before the edit).


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## 1dog (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> It’s a bit of a balancing act but the old, decrepit future is only a very short moment of our lives and not a part that I’d care to keep me from living my life in fear of “what may happen”. God, talk about fear of want, regretting not doing the things I dreamed of when I had my health is a much greater fear for me than being old. Seriously, that’s terrifying! Hell, if it gets real bad I’ll just pull a trigger or do way too much heroin.
> 
> Fear is a hell of a drug and the American Nightmare syndrome can’t survive without our fear.
> 
> ...


Have the T-Shirt to go along with my thinking - 'live every day as if its sudden-death overtime.' 

I'm almost 3" shorter than I was 20 years ago - dr said due to bumps - he a skier too - I say hair loss. I'll never do Stein's top to bottom big bumps as fast as 10 years ago without stopping, but I'll still do them.

I still have Center Chute and Dodges Drop on list - every time I've been there its been 'off limits' I don't have too much longer. . . . .  Corbets? Gotta be full of snow.

As Dick Danger ( of Throbbing Member fame) says ' make your peace with the Lord ' at the top of every couloir.   Dodges has an NFZ so. . . .


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## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

Domeskier said:


> The irony is thick with you.  Apparently "my personal thoughts" irked you so much you couldn't rest until you came back and added this little dig (yes, I saw your post before the edit).


Like I said, I’m f-Ing with ya a little. Let’s not take any of this too seriously.

heck, who knows.....maybe I’ll regret everything as I lay in some real crappy hospice center for extremely poor people waiting for a cna to come in and change my diaper. If I get a bad stroke I probably won’t be able to shoot up heroin or hold a gun. I’d be lying if I said that that thought doesn’t scare the crap out of me!


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

1dog said:


> Have the T-Shirt to go along with my thinking - 'live every day as if its sudden-death overtime.'
> 
> I'm almost 3" shorter than I was 20 years ago - dr said due to bumps - he a skier too - I say hair loss. I'll never do Stein's top to bottom big bumps as fast as 10 years ago without stopping, but I'll still do them.
> 
> ...


Sudden death over time, I like that!


----------



## snoseek (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Putting off the things we really want to do with our lives until the “golden years” is probably a lot of peoples first mistake. They aren’t really so “golden” as our bodies are naturally on a steady decline.
> 
> I often call the American dream the American nightmare. In a lot of ways it’s a sham.
> 
> I worked in a hospice center for a few years as a nursing assistant. I didn’t meet a single person on hospice that wished they had spent more of their life working or being concerned with impressing others. Most would tell me that I better do exactly what I wanted to because before I would know it I’d be in their positions.


This is the way.

I did 3 in utah, 3 in colorado, 6 or 7 in Tahoe and one last one back in Utah. I'm getting near 50 and have gone beyond what I had dreamed. I'm cool kicking back in northern new england, settling down and being close to family. I dont even have any pressing urge to get on a plane to ski at this point. I'm ok with working later in life to make up for it all I just assume keep moving till I cant. Fuck those were some good years. I hope for refills in my next life


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

snoseek said:


> This is the way.
> 
> I did 3 in utah, 3 in colorado, 6 or 7 in Tahoe and one last one back in Utah. I'm getting near 50 and have gone beyond what I had dreamed. I'm cool kicking back in northern new england, settling down and being close to family. I dont even have any pressing urge to get on a plane to ski at this point. I'm ok with working later in life to make up for it all I just assume keep moving till I cant. Fuck those were some good years. I hope for refills in my next life


I’m at 45 and am feeling super content as well. Sure, there’s still a lot of things I want to do but none of it feels pressing or urgent in any way. I’m broke, have plenty of aches and pains but I’m in a good place overall.

my buddy Simon says that if you live what you’re doing for work why would you ever retire anyways? I really love my work right now which is extremely fortunate and I’m super grateful for that. I don’t think many people get to experience that.


----------



## dblskifanatic (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I’m at 45 and am feeling super content as well. Sure, there’s still a lot of things I want to do but none of it feels pressing or urgent in any way. I’m broke, have plenty of aches and pains but I’m in a good place overall.
> 
> my buddy Simon says that if you live what you’re doing for work why would you ever retire anyways? I really love my work right now which is extremely fortunate and I’m super grateful for that. I don’t think many people get to experience that.



I get it!  Work to live and not live to work!  I know some of my friends that have been very career focused and had little play time.  I have had very good jobs all the way and did not have to sacrifice fun - have been able to do a lot!


----------



## cdskier (Mar 19, 2021)

Hawk said:


> For me, and this is my opinion only, NYC is too big, too dirty, too many people.


I live 8 miles outside of NYC and I agree with you. I go there as little as possible...

I have liked the Boston/Cambridge area when I've visited for work. But visiting a few times is quite different than living near there.


----------



## jimk (Mar 19, 2021)

I worked for 40 years in a cubicle like Dilbert.  I cherish the memory of it.  Just kidding about the cherish part.   We all do what we have to do to make it in life.  I'm retired now and doing my best to be a geezer ski bum to make up for all those misspent years as an office worker.  Time waits for no one.


----------



## Domeskier (Mar 19, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I live 8 miles outside of NYC and I agree with you. I go there as little as possible...


I prefer the anonymity and privacy that living in NYC provides over the claustrophobic closeness of life in most suburbs.  No one cares if you're weird and unsociable in cities.


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

Domeskier said:


> I prefer the anonymity and privacy that living in NYC provides over the claustrophobic closeness of life in most suburbs.  No one cares if you're weird and unsociable in cities.


I’ve always thought it’s interesting how crowded and busy NYC is but yet, it’s lonely and cold at the same time. I definitely like to stay off the radar a lot of the time and I can be pretty weird and unsociable myself. Anxiety can be like that.

I guess I’m complicated though, I also love our little ski mountain and our community. The Bowl is like my Cheers where everybody knows everyone.


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

jimk said:


> I worked for 40 years in a cubicle like Dilbert.  I cherish the memory of it.  Just kidding about the cherish part.   We all do what we have to do to make it in life.  I'm retired now and doing my best to be a geezer ski bum to make up for all those misspent years as an office worker.  Time waits for no one.


There’s no wrong way. I bet you are having a good time now.


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

jimk said:


> I worked for 40 years in a cubicle like Dilbert.  I cherish the memory of it.  Just kidding about the cherish part.   We all do what we have to do to make it in life.  I'm retired now and doing my best to be a geezer ski bum to make up for all those misspent years as an office worker.  Time waits for no one.


I’ll open up a bit here for a minute. One aspect I struggle with is now, after living a more selfish existence I sometimes feel guilty for not being able to provide more for my daughter. I see how the other kids get to go on nice vacations or have the latest and greatest gear and i can feel crappy comparing myself to their parents. I didn’t plan on becoming a dad, it just happened.

I’m a good dad though and she’s a great kid. So I need to remind myself of that from time to time.


----------



## 2Planker (Mar 19, 2021)

cdskier said:


> I live 8 miles outside of NYC and I agree with you. I go there as little as possible...
> 
> I have liked the Boston/Cambridge area when I've visited for work. But visiting a few times is quite different than living near there.


Grew up there. Lived and worked there all my professional career. 
Always gravitated North on weekends. Our family had a place in Bethel. 
Eventually bought a place in Conway when I got married at 50+. Not our "forever home", but we are going to retire in the MWV.


----------



## VTKilarney (Mar 19, 2021)

Red Lodge, Montana.  You can thank me later.


----------



## Domeskier (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I’m a good dad though and she’s a great kid. So I need to remind myself of that from time to time.


+1  I get the desire to give your kids a comfortable life, but in the end it's the care you took in raising them and the values you instill in them that they'll remember and treasure about you.


----------



## Dickc (Mar 19, 2021)

I've worked a few different jobs from Manufacturing to IT work.  Retired now and have back limitations.  Regrets?  Yup, but not worth worrying about.



>


----------



## abc (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> if you really are stoked on your decisions and life path there’s probably no need to get defensive on an Internet forum with complete strangers.


That comes from a guy who "gets defensive on an Internet forum with complete strangers"!

All that fury of "life style" confession (aka "personal thought") sounds a lot more like someone having serious doubt about his own choices and need to reinforce it to himself, constantly


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

abc said:


> That comes from a guy who "gets defensive on an Internet forum with complete strangers"!
> 
> All that fury of "life style" confession (aka "personal thought") sounds a lot more like serious doubt about your own choices and need to reinforce it to yourself, constantly


Hey, I’m delicate little flower. But seriously, a lot of communication is lost on social media forums. Not everything is quite as it seems. But whatever......how’s that? Too defensive or not enough?


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 19, 2021)

abc said:


> That comes from a guy who "gets defensive on an Internet forum with complete strangers"!
> 
> All that fury of "life style" confession (aka "personal thought") sounds a lot more like someone having serious doubt about his own choices and need to reinforce it to himself, constantly


Or maybe someone confident enough to admit some vulnerability and humanness?

you aren’t bothering me bud.


----------



## chuckstah (Mar 19, 2021)

Ski2LiveLive2Ski said:


> 1:15 to Sunapee 2 hrs to Cape Cod sounds pretty nice. But what is that drive to CC like on a summer weekend?


If you go Friday at rush hour, no good. Returning, when I had to be in the office Monday morning at 7, I'd leave at about 5 am and be a few minutes early.  You learn to time the commute.


----------



## chuckstah (Mar 19, 2021)

drjeff said:


> Isn't that the truth!!
> 
> My in-laws live in Falmouth near the Mashpee line. The community they live in is on an peninsula right off of 28. It's just over 3 miles from their house to the closest Dunkin Donuts in Falmouth (about 1/2 of that distance is on the low traffic main road in their community).  On a weekend morning in the Summer season it will often take over an hour round trip to make the morning coffee and breakfast sandwich run!!
> 
> I don't go to my in-laws in the Summer season very much anymore because of the traffic!


Sounds like your in-laws live pretty close to our summer cottage. Falmouth, check. Dunkin on 28, check. Luckily for us there's another one that only requires a hundred yards in 28. My tires barely touch the pavement on 28 summer weekends. Back roads are fine.


----------



## abc (Mar 19, 2021)

Domeskier said:


> I prefer the anonymity and privacy that living in NYC provides over the claustrophobic closeness of life in most suburbs.  No one cares if you're weird and unsociable in cities.





raisingarizona said:


> I’ve always thought it’s interesting how crowded and busy NYC is but yet, it’s lonely and cold at the same time. I definitely like to stay off the radar a lot of the time and I can be pretty weird and unsociable myself. Anxiety can be like that.


It's only lonely if you want company from strangers. 

It's not lonely for the loners. 

The pandemic is a godsend for us loners. We don't have to pretend to be social. We can stay alone without anyone wondering if there's anything wrong with us. 

I can be quite sociable, but only if I feel like it, which isn't always the case. Having to be sociable when I don't feel like half of the time is why I do my best to avoid living in a claustrophobic suburb full time. I can only take it half of the time. I need to escape back to the anonymity of NYC.


----------



## abc (Mar 19, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Or maybe someone confident enough to admit some vulnerability and humanness?


Vulnerability and humanness? In lecturing other on how your way of living day to day without a care for tomorrow is the way of life "no regret"?

Confident? You're confusing condescending with confidence.


----------



## Hawk (Mar 20, 2021)

I think ABC and I are pretty much opposites.  I like some alone time but pretty much need to surround myself with really good fun loving people,  I mean the life experience is about sharing it with the ones you love.  We have also learned that if a person is a downer, we drift away from them.   No time for people that have an ax to grind or are angry all the time.  

I can understand RA and his quest to simplify his life.   It's something that many of our friends have done.  The perk is that we now have places to stay all over the west.  In my case I just need a little more than that and have saved to reach that goal.  We also baked in enough time and money to really enjoy ourselves through our 30's, 40's and now in our 50's.  Work life balance is just about perfect with 60 days on skis and over 200 days on the bikes each year.  But what RA and ABC feel is a better ideal is not wrong either.


----------



## kbroderick (Mar 21, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> Red Lodge, Montana.  You can thank me later.


Nothing to see there, move along now.

Besides which, most of their lifts don't have restraining bars. Sounds scary for New England types.


----------



## dblskifanatic (Mar 22, 2021)

kbroderick said:


> Nothing to see there, move along now.
> 
> Besides which, most of their lifts don't have restraining bars. Sounds scary for New England types.



Ski at Loveland - you get used to no safety bars!


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## thebigo (Mar 22, 2021)

I have skied 75 days this year, almost every day with my 8 year old daughter. My dad was not around when I was a kid, he was always off chasing the next fortune. I promised myself I would not do that to my kids. I will never be rich but there is a roof over our head, money in the bank and the bills are paid. Would not trade this year for anything, hopefully we have a few months left.

I like to think I will retire on a large piece of land next door to either wildcat or cannon, but in reality I will be wherever the kids need me to be. I make sure to remind them everyday how miserable Florida is.


----------



## kingslug (Mar 23, 2021)

Our friend is a real estate agent in Utah..says houses are selling in 2 days ..all cash..most coming from California. Guess that place is out. Should have moved there 20 years ago. Now..no idea. I am getting tired of 5 hour drives to ski though..


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## NYDB (Mar 23, 2021)

^Try buying in VT.  Same issue.  Most houses are sold the day they are listed.


----------



## Smellytele (Mar 23, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> ^Try buying in VT.  Same issue.  Most houses are sold the day they are listed.


to people from NY, NJ and CT.


----------



## jimk (Mar 23, 2021)

kingslug said:


> Our friend is a real estate agent in Utah..says houses are selling in 2 days ..all cash..most coming from California. Guess that place is out. Should have moved there 20 years ago. Now..no idea. I am getting tired of 5 hour drives to ski though..


The whole world's gone crazy.  My house near DC is appreciating just as fast as my son's in SLC, and has much higher overall value.


----------



## abc (Mar 23, 2021)

jimk said:


> The whole world's gone crazy.  My house near DC is appreciating just as fast as my son's in SLC, and has much higher overall value.


Well, if everyone needs to spend all day at home, working or attending school, we all need bigger houses! 

That's not madness. That's just accepting reality. 

But I bet real estate inside cities are a different picture


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## kingslug (Mar 23, 2021)

yup..there might be..oh..a few vacant stores near where I work..


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## AdironRider (Mar 23, 2021)

I learned at an early age that if you want to ski, you need to live near skiing when you are young, because you aren't going to be crushing 100 day seasons at 65+. Don't even think about it after 70. There is a reason ski areas used to give 70+ people free passes, because they don't ski any more. 

So sure, go ahead and wait if you want to save the coin for retirement, but you are going to pay for it with your knees and way less skiing. I'd rather find a way to make it work now, and cash out later. Given mtn town real estate I'll probably end up with more money in the bank once I do sell out, and will have skied pow for decades.


----------



## LonghornSkier (Mar 23, 2021)

abc said:


> Well, if everyone needs to spend all day at home, working or attending school, we all need bigger houses!
> 
> That's not madness. That's just accepting reality.
> 
> But I bet real estate inside cities are a different picture



I live in the financial district and there's been a noticeable uptick in activity over the past few weeks.. 

On Saturday, West Village was completely packed and bumping..

Residential market is coming back strong too, though I think there will be a lot of shakeout in commercial and office space.









						Luxury real estate contracts in Manhattan surpassing pre-pandemic levels
					

A new report indicates a 60% increase in contracts signed on luxury homes in the Big Apple during the first quarter of 2021 as compared to the same pre-pandemic time period in 2020. The findings, released Monday from Olshan Realty, suggest that buyers are banking on Manhattan's comeback.




					www.foxnews.com


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## flakeydog (Mar 23, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> I learned at an early age that if you want to ski, you need to live near skiing when you are young, because you aren't going to be crushing 100 day seasons at 65+. Don't even think about it after 70. There is a reason ski areas used to give 70+ people free passes, because they don't ski any more.


Believe me, I am all for the "smoke 'em if you got 'em" philosophy.  You just never know what's around the next bend in life.  I remember as a youngster thinking that will be great when I am 70 I can ski for free!  Well looks like 90 is the new 70.  A quick check on the Sugarbush site shows that 90+ is now the age to get a free pass.  Up to 79, same as everyone else, but you can get a pretty cheap pass if you are in the 80-85 range.  Lots of 70+ skiers out there, clearly more than there used to be!


----------



## abc (Mar 23, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> you aren't going to be crushing 100 day seasons at 65+.


I don't need to ski 100 days a season, period. 

But I'm pretty close to that age. I've skied 6 weeks non-stop without much issue with knees or what not. While I don't really "crush it" with all day long bump bashing or leaping off cliffs, I do "bump it" repeatedly as long as condition isn't too harsh. There're ways to ski without trashing one's knee. I don't see much problem keep going at this pace for a few years. In fact I ski a lot more "days" now than I used to, if not in total hours. 

I see so many people in their 70's still "crushing it". I'm not going to worry about being able to ski when I reach my "legal retirement age".  My only worry is I may not feel like stop working at my legal retirement age because I'm still enjoying my day in the office so much! There's a balance of all the things one wants to do. Mine isn't just about skiing.   

That said, I totally agree if skiing is all you want to do day in and day out, you should *try* to make it work in the snow country. I'm very glad I switched career 20 years back to live in the big city with all its cultural attractions. The money I made from that career switch worked out in my favor. So if I ever got bored with big city and bright lights, I'll be out of there as fast as a lightening! And I'll have plenty of spare cash to live anywhere else I care to.


----------



## abc (Mar 23, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> I live in the financial district


I admire those of you who stuck it out in the city! 

(My Mom stayed there too. I found it so depressing when I visited)

From my perspective, the city is probably at its best right now as far as living goes. Busy but not over-crowded. Me and my friends were able to find tables for eating out. I can find parking spots too. Far fewer traffic issues. Haven't tried public transport yet but will do soon... 

Agree the shaking out will happen in the next 12 months. If companies aren't coming back to their offices, neither will workers. There goes the renters. Small landlords may feel the pinch eventually.


----------



## Domeskier (Mar 23, 2021)

abc said:


> I don't need to ski 100 days a season, period.



100-day seasons sound like a grind to me.  Hard to image most of those days being worth it.


----------



## ss20 (Mar 23, 2021)

Domeskier said:


> 100-day seasons sound like a grind to me.  Hard to image most of those days being worth it.



I've done 83, 90, and this year I'm on pace to hit 80ish this season.  Roughly half those ski days are days I'm a part-time ski instructor though.  Make the money on the days that aren't worth it!  Spending time with kids and friends  and making a few bucks on the local hill 25 minutes from home when it's a skating rink are more fun/more productive than driving 4 hours to VT to ski on a bigger skating rink up there!  The variety stops me from getting burned out.  I've done the "weekend warrior" thing for 5 weekends straight and that's tiring, especially if conditions aren't the best all the time.  

The people at go to ski country from NYC, Long Island, Phily, NJ, etc every.  single.  weekend.  have my utmost respect.  That's tough.   I'd be happy to do 100+ days seasons if the real hills were closer!


----------



## AdironRider (Mar 23, 2021)

You old guys can say there are plenty of 70+ skiers out there and keep kidding yourselves, but the reality is very different. 

Father time is undefeated.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I've done 83, 90, and this year I'm on pace to hit 80ish this season.  Roughly half those ski days are days I'm a part-time ski instructor though.  Make the money on the days that aren't worth it!  Spending time with kids and friends  and making a few bucks on the local hill 25 minutes from home when it's a skating rink are more fun/more productive than driving 4 hours to VT to ski on a bigger skating rink up there!  The variety stops me from getting burned out.  I've done the "weekend warrior" thing for 5 weekends straight and that's tiring, especially if conditions aren't the best all the time.
> 
> The people at go to ski country from NYC, Long Island, Phily, NJ, etc every.  single.  weekend.  have my utmost respect.  That's tough.   I'd be happy to do 100+ days seasons if the real hills were closer!



i shoot for 50 days, and usually wind up around 45. I've hit 50 twice. i'm currently at 35 and will certainly hit 40. 45 if april cooperates. its a haul but i like it. gives me time to listen to my pods. doing 100 days on an every weekend 4-6 hour drive each direction schedule is literally impossible lol


----------



## Domeskier (Mar 23, 2021)

ss20 said:


> The people at go to ski country from NYC, Long Island, Phily, NJ, etc every.  single.  weekend.  have my utmost respect.  That's tough.   I'd be happy to do 100+ days seasons if the real hills were closer!


Indeed.  I think I might ski even less if I lived in ski country and could pick and choose my days.  But I probably don't enjoy skiing as much as the typical poster here.


----------



## x10003q (Mar 23, 2021)

abc said:


> I admire those of you who stuck it out in the city!
> 
> (My Mom stayed there too. I found it so depressing when I visited)
> 
> ...


I would not write off going back to offices. Millions of people live in studios,1BRs, and 2BRs. Going back to the office will be a relief.


----------



## ScottySkis (Mar 23, 2021)

abc said:


> But I'm pretty close to that age.
> 
> 
> 160 years old
> Go ski like u use and u make u feel better but talking on AZ makes u older


----------



## kbroderick (Mar 23, 2021)

Domeskier said:


> 100-day seasons sound like a grind to me.  Hard to image most of those days being worth it.


I think I've got about six 100+ days seasons in, although the last couple have been a little less than that (90ish). The first year I made 100 days a goal before the lifts shut down at my home area (first weekend in April) and I ended up at 142 total, with a 75-consecutive-day streak.

There were a lot of days that I felt grumpy about chasing numbers in the process of trying to get my butt out the door. There was only one that didn't turn out to be entirely worth it--high winds, raining, and something like 35 degrees, with only a lower-mountain lift turning--and there were a lot of days that were far better than I expected.


----------



## jimk (Mar 23, 2021)

One thing good about this thread is that people made their choices and pretty much still stand by them with confidence in the future.  That's all that really counts.

I'm in my late 60s.  I come from the mid-Atlantic where I am a reasonably competent skier for my age.  The last few years since retiring I'm spending a lot of time in Little Cottonwood Canyon.  I am blown off the hill 500 times a day by people that are older than me.  I don't know if they swallow gobs of motrin and live in a hot tub the whole time they are off the hill, but on the hill they are killing it.  I am in awe.  It's pretty motivating for me to keep active.


They skin too:





BTW, last photo is from April 2019, I hope to get some more of that spring pow in Apr 2021.


----------



## ss20 (Mar 23, 2021)

I'd like to do 100+ days in a season and I'd also like to do 12 months consecutive of skiing.  I don't have a desire to do literally everyday for a season at a resort.


----------



## slatham (Mar 23, 2021)

Haven't really followed and when I did people were talking about Pennsylvania ski towns which turned me off a bit.......

But I have to throw Manchester VT into the mix. Might be too small for some for sure but is has a lot of cultural activities, shopping, restaurants, housing stock etc. It is 15 minutes to Bromley and Stratton, 25 from Magic, 45 Okemo, 50 Mt Snow, 1:20 to Killington. Gore, Sugarbush are MRG are around 2 hours. VAST, Catamount trail, x-c areas, snowshoes areas. Lakes, ponds, streams, AT/LT and other hiking. Trail and gravel biking. 

Need more activity? Saratoga Springs and Albany under 1:30, Burlington 2:30, and NYC 4. Of course there are too many NY'ers on holiday weekends - nothings perfect. Arguing my portfolio as they say - we have a condo at Bromley and are likely to buy a house and retire to Manchester. When we bought the condo it was mostly for skiing, then it was skiing/summer/foliage, and now after 75%+ of the past 9 months up there its the place we want to be.

As for # of days skiing, I can now envision 100 since I am slope side (or short drive to Magic) and can ski for an hour or so. To be sure these are not "days" of skiing but I really enjoyed getting out just about everyday for several long stretches this winter - even if for only a 1/2 dozen runs. And NOT skiing on Saturday after 10:30/11 and NOT skiing on major holidays. Yes I got spoiled.


----------



## NYDB (Mar 23, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> You old guys can say there are plenty of 70+ skiers out there and keep kidding yourselves, but the reality is very different.
> 
> Father time is undefeated.


I think if you are banging out 100 day of lift serviced /year years in your 20's and 30's and 40's then I think you are right.    You aren't going to make it too long.  that takes a toll. 

But god damn you'd be surprised then when you go skiing midweek in  VT - It seems that at least 50% of the people are retired and grey.  At least mid to late sixties and up.


----------



## cdskier (Mar 23, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I think if you are banging out 100 day years in your 20's and 30's and 40's then I think you are right.    You aren't going to make it too long.  that takes a toll.
> 
> But god damn you'd be surprised then when you go skiing midweek in  VT - It seems that at least 50% of the people are retired and grey.  At least mid to late sixties and up.



Hah. I remember pre-COVID when I used to ski mid-week in Decembers at Sugarbush to use up my vacation days before the end of the year that anytime I went in the lodge it seemed like I was walking into a retirement home!


----------



## raisingarizona (Mar 23, 2021)

I’ve done around 20 years of 100 day or so seasons with another 10 in the 50 average range. I’ve been skiing for 35 years now. I even did an every month stint for 3 years. These days, I get bored with it. The loading, unloading the car with gear or putting on the cloths and boots sometimes feels more like a chore than something I’m excited about. I still love it but there’s absolutely no pressure to be out there when I’m not feeling it.


----------



## kbroderick (Mar 23, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I'd like to do 100+ days in a season and I'd also like to do 12 months consecutive of skiing.  I don't have a desire to do literally everyday for a season at a resort.


Location matters a lot in that regard. When you're close enough to accessible high-elevation snow that you can easily bang out a run or two on a July or August afternoon, 100 days is relatively easy, and once a month isn't hard, at least for a year or a few. September or October can be tough, depending on weather and high-elevation road status in your particular locale.

It's not for everyone, though, and you'll certainly get odd looks from the summer tourists walking across the alpine plateau to the just-out-of-sight snow.

If you have to really travel to ski in the summer months, it becomes a lot more challenging. I managed to keep going through September after moving back East, but my October plan to ski locally got foiled by a warm fall, and I'm on the fence about driving to Jersey this summer (it just feels...wrong).


----------



## NYDB (Mar 23, 2021)

slatham said:


> Haven't really followed and when I did people were talking about Pennsylvania ski towns which turned me off a bit.......
> 
> But I have to throw Manchester VT into the mix. Might be too small for some for sure but is has a lot of cultural activities, shopping, restaurants, housing stock etc. It is 15 minutes to Bromley and Stratton, 25 from Magic, 45 Okemo, 50 Mt Snow, 1:20 to Killington. Gore, Sugarbush are MRG are around 2 hours. VAST, Catamount trail, x-c areas, snowshoes areas. Lakes, ponds, streams, AT/LT and other hiking. Trail and gravel biking.
> 
> ...


I don't know.  All those dying outlet malls and shops?  That whole town just seems like a tourist trap to me.  Plus MT equinox just to the west makes it dark at 2- 3 pm nov-jan.     At least the book store is nice.  I never got much of a 'culture' vibe from Manchester either.  

Late summer / Fall it is a beautiful spot though.  

For me to retire to a place in VT it would have to be closer to more abundant and consistent snow and better skiing.  Like Sugarbush / Stowe.    Burlington seems nice.  

Southern VT just seems like it doesn't get the snow anymore.  It is only an average year once every 5 years and its below average the other 4.  But the average snow fall amounts the mountains report never changes.


----------



## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2021)

i also think of manchester as a tourist shopping town. wouldn't want to live there. if i lived in soVT it would be right by the bottom of magic in Londonderry. peru near bromley is also ok. having manchester near-ish for shopping and services is good, but wouldn't wanna be in it.


----------



## jaytrem (Mar 23, 2021)

At least Manchester has Pinball!!!









						Pinball Arcade in Manchester, Vermont
					

Manchester Vermont's Pastime Pinball is more than an arcade. Play your way through pinball's journey from vintage games spanning the 50s through today.




					pastimepinball.com


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2021)

my girlfriend and i stayed in the equinox once. its on my dad's starwood points timeshare thing and he had points to burn that would have otherwise expired. the hotel was having some heating issue and to combat it they were keeping all of the doors of unoccupied rooms open. i don't remember the specifics. what i do remember was that this bougie ass couple who were just ahead of us checking in were fucking OUTRAGED and really let the poor son of a bitch working the reception desk have it. apparently 'this place was much nicer 10 years ago'. lol. 

we thought it was nice. the pool/hot-tub/spa situation was nice. it was far nicer than my rutland roadside motels.

also, digger had a big story about how vt has been housing homeless in motels during covid. which explains why my roadway inns and econolodges have largely disappeared from booking sites. I've upgraded to the comfort inn. the difference between a $60 room and a $95 room is immense.


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## NYDB (Mar 23, 2021)

Comfort Inn in Rutland is a great spot.  Plenty of food options within stumbling distance of CJ's.


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## Smellytele (Mar 23, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Comfort Inn in Rutland is a great spot.  Plenty of food options within stumbling distance of CJ's.


Rutland hotels are good for meth heads and junkies


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 23, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Comfort Inn in Rutland is a great spot.  Plenty of food options within stumbling distance of CJ's.



ive never actually been inside CJs, it looks like a real locals bar where everyone would turn their heads and stare at me if i walked in.

the comfort inn is actually very nice. newly renovated. super clean. its the same price as the days inn and is much nicer. the days inn is decrepit, and there's always a car parked in the first spot with a confederate flag sticker, so i assume it belongs to staff and it makes me feel icky


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## raisingarizona (Mar 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> my girlfriend and i stayed in the equinox once. its on my dad's starwood points timeshare thing and he had points to burn that would have otherwise expired. the hotel was having some heating issue and to combat it they were keeping all of the doors of unoccupied rooms open. i don't remember the specifics. what i do remember was that this bougie ass couple who were just ahead of us checking in were fucking OUTRAGED and really let the poor son of a bitch working the reception desk have it. apparently 'this place was much nicer 10 years ago'. lol.
> 
> we thought it was nice. the pool/hot-tub/spa situation was nice. it was far nicer than my rutland roadside motels.
> 
> also, digger had a big story about how vt has been housing homeless in motels during covid. which explains why my roadway inns and econolodges have largely disappeared from booking sites. I've upgraded to the comfort inn. the difference between a $60 room and a $95 room is immense.


People that abuse low wage workers really suck.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 23, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> People that abuse low wage workers really suck.



Right?  The front facing person more than likely cannot fix much for you since they probably do not control the purse strings!  Like calling a call center, they can fix little shit but they are not authorized to make the big changes you need!


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## raisingarizona (Mar 23, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> Right?  The front facing person more than likely cannot fix much for you since they probably do not control the purse strings!  Like calling a call center, they can fix little shit but they are not authorized to make the big changes you need!


Yeah, it’s generally someone throwing a temper tantrum because they aren’t getting their way or assholes just being bullies.

Can you imagine working at the ticket desk in an airport? That would be brutal.


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## NYDB (Mar 23, 2021)

KustyTheKlown said:


> ive never actually been inside CJs, it looks like a real locals bar where everyone would turn their heads and stare at me if i walked in.
> 
> the comfort inn is actually very nice. newly renovated. super clean. its the same price as the days inn and is much nicer. the days inn is decrepit, and there's always a car parked in the first spot with a confederate flag sticker, so i assume it belongs to staff and it makes me feel icky


let the tourists hit mcgraths and the pickle.  cj,s is the real deal.  Try it sometime.


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## triguy914 (Mar 24, 2021)

mikec142 said:


> This topic came up in a different thread.  Although I still have a decent way to go, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on great places to settle down after the kids are in college and in retirement. Some of the obvious ones to me haven't been affordable in years so I'm curious about up and coming or alternative type places.  Places like Park City, Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, etc. are just plain unaffordable these days.
> 
> I mentioned Saratoga Springs, NY.  It's probably on the expensive side if you live right in town, but to me, it has a lot going for it.  It's a college town so it remains young and vibrant.  It has a bustling downtown area full of restaurants, shops, and bars.  The track makes things really fun and interesting in the summer.  The performing arts center gets great shows.  Albany is 30 minutes away for bigger city things and an airport.  Quick access to outdoor recreation and Gore is one hour away.


I am going to read this entire thread. I am mid 50s, kids in college, step kids on the way. We have a place on one of the lakes just north of ludlow. 5' to okemo, 15' to killington. I ski Backcountry a lot. This winter, I spent much of this winter up there since I WFH.  We are thinking that we'd keep the lake house (small), rent it part time (as we do now) and buy a bigger place further out with property when we sell our suburban NY house. Actually saw a nice property recently that abuts Magic Mtn, but too soon for us. THE biggest part of this is where do the kids go? #1 is graduating this year and going to the Boston area. If they all end up in the Northeast, VT makes sense for us, only issue is the high Income taxes.

One thing I have noticed watching weather more these past few years is that there IS much more snow consistently from Killington north and it just gets more pronounced as you move north.

I like the Saratoga idea and saw that one person mentioned Queensbury. I Drove there from VT on Sunday for my 1st shot of Pfizer. I noticed on the northern suburbs the # of newer very nice homes, golf courses, etc. There is GREAT MTB in the VT valley east of there  on the NE side of Lake St Catherine, and I am sure in the NY side as well. Other areas I am looking at are the Mad River Valley and the area SW of Woodstock. The culture that you get from a college town would come from a longer shlep to Burlington or Hanover NH. Have to remember that you have lots of music and other festivals at all the ski areas, so with the exception of shows, culture is present in the mountains. 

I have a friend who left Westchester NY and got a place in Hebert City UT. Definitely more affordable. He's 15' from Park City Parking and about 45 to Alta. I've actually got 3 people on my Strava feed living there. This area is on my list. Also thinking of a condo in AZ or NM for shoulder season warmth.


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## VTKilarney (Mar 24, 2021)

The area between Saratoga and Lake George is underrated, in my opinion.  You are close to city, culture, and nature.  The area has a lot more going on in the summer than Vermont does, especially if you like concerts.  The only real gripe would be taxes.


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 24, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> The area between Saratoga and Lake George is underrated, in my opinion.  You are close to city, culture, and nature.  The area has a lot more going on in the summer than Vermont does, especially if you like concerts.  The only real gripe would be taxes.


Spot  on analysis:   QUEENSBURY  !


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## gladerider (Mar 24, 2021)

NH sounds very interesting

never thought about it until a few mentioned it on this thread. 
hanover, keene, lebannon and concord. how are these places for retirement?


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## Newpylong (Mar 24, 2021)

I live in Enfield NH (abuts Lebanon and Hanover). While I can't say anything about retirement, if you like being outdoors it's hard to beat this area (the "Upper Valley NH/VT"). We are 20 minutes from either Lebanon or New London shopping/food. Enfield is like 20% water and there are thousands of acres of Land Trust and/or State,Town land to hike and snowmobile. I am 30 minutes from Ragged and Sunapee. 50 minutes from Killington. Same town as Whaleback if they ever get their sh*t together. 89 goes through town and 91 is 4 exits north. Fairly quick hop over to I93 as well. 2 hours from Boston, 1.5 to the Seacoast.

Not a ski town by any means, but tough to beat in my eyes coupled with lower NH taxes. The town is well run and has a solid regional school system. No wonder property is flying right now in the area.


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## gladerider (Mar 24, 2021)

yeah. hanover/lebannon seems great on the map logistically to all the major hills. 

looks like properties are flying everywhere in the country for some reason. how is the restaurant scene nearby? do you guys to go Dartmouth area for that?


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## Newpylong (Mar 24, 2021)

We rarely if ever go to Hanover (Dartmouth) for anything, but lots of folks here do. We have a couple local restaurants here in town (nothing fancy) we try to do the most business with otherwise we go to Lebanon or New London. Both have ample options. Lebanon is more the business center of the region and New London is more your New England town and the architecture and style restaurants reflect that.


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## VTKilarney (Mar 24, 2021)

gladerider said:


> NH sounds very interesting
> 
> never thought about it until a few mentioned it on this thread.
> hanover, keene, lebannon and concord. how are these places for retirement?



The problem with Hanover/Lebanon is that, for being in northern New England, you really aren't near any decent sized ski areas.

1.5 hours to Loon.
1.1 hours to Magic Mountain.
1 hour to Killington
1 hour to Okemo

Hanover/Lebanon makes sense if you only plan on skiing 15 or so days a year.

I prefer Plymouth.  Plymouth is much closer to skiing, has a heck of a concert venue in town, is on the doorstep of the Lakes Region, and is close to Concord/Manchester.


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## JDMRoma (Mar 24, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> The problem with Hanover/Lebanon is that, for being in northern New England, you really aren't near any decent sized ski areas.
> 
> 1.5 hours to Loon.
> 1.1 hours to Magic Mountain.
> ...


Plymouth State College, nope ! Go north ! Campton or Thornton look to be where I want to be at some point.


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## Edd (Mar 24, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> The problem with Hanover/Lebanon is that, for being in northern New England, you really aren't near any decent sized ski areas.
> 
> 1.5 hours to Loon.
> 1.1 hours to Magic Mountain.
> ...


WHAT?! The last 3 are a fuckton of terrain, a lot of it good, within an hour. That’s awesome.


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## JDMRoma (Mar 24, 2021)

Edd said:


> WHAT?! The last 3 are a fuckton of terrain, a lot of it good, within an hour. That’s awesome.



I dont think Killington is quite an hour from Lebanon, could have sworn it was just over 30 minutes even with the slow crawl through route 4


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## VTKilarney (Mar 24, 2021)

Edd said:


> WHAT?! The last 3 are a fuckton of terrain, a lot of it good, within an hour. That’s awesome.



What is the point of retiring there, if you can choose anywhere to retire, when you have to drive 2 hours round trip to hit a decent sized mountain?  There are much better options.

Although I am the hypocrite who said that Queensbury is a nice option.  



JDMRoma said:


> I dont think Killington is quite an hour from Lebanon, could have sworn it was just over 30 minutes even with the slow crawl through route 4



I got the time from Google maps.  Route 4 is such an absurd speed trap, that it's probably pretty accurate.


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## gladerider (Mar 24, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> The problem with Hanover/Lebanon is that, for being in northern New England, you really aren't near any decent sized ski areas.
> 
> 1.5 hours to Loon.
> 1.1 hours to Magic Mountain.
> ...



haha. i do 20+ from NJ except this year. 1 hour to all those places probably would double that number or close to it.

how is the lake region? laconia?


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## NYDB (Mar 24, 2021)

What about Jackson, NH?  Black (wish it was more like BMOM) , Wildcat, Attitash, Backcountry options, xc.  

Don't know about MTB but I am sure there is some good stuff around


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## LonghornSkier (Mar 24, 2021)

gladerider said:


> haha. i do 20+ from NJ except this year. 1 hour to all those places probably would double that number or close to it.
> 
> how is the lake region? laconia?



Laconia kind of sucks-Lots of drugs and unsavory people...

Meredith is probably be the best choice for large enough town to have conveniences/nice for four seasons/access to skiing.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 24, 2021)

i stayed in laconia once. it felt trapped in time. the hotel i was in was one of those places that was definitely super nice in like 1982. town felt methy. but lakes region in dead of winter is probably not the most accurate representation.


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## VTKilarney (Mar 24, 2021)

LonghornSkier said:


> Laconia kind of sucks-Lots of drugs and unsavory people...
> 
> Meredith is probably be the best choice for large enough town to have conveniences/nice for four seasons/access to skiing.



I was going to say the same thing.  Meredith is the place to be.


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## snoseek (Mar 24, 2021)

Jackson is wicked expensive but if you can swing it its beautifully located.

If you dont need the school's laconia is great imo. Get on the right side of town and it's the best value going and the lakes are right there.


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## abc (Mar 24, 2021)

Jackson? It maybe beautiful. But there's nothing there! 

It's not a town, barely a village. More a spot on the map. 

It'll suit some people. Just make sure that's what you're looking for.


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## Smellytele (Mar 24, 2021)

abc said:


> Jackson? It maybe beautiful. But there's nothing there!
> 
> It's not a town, barely a village. More a spot on the map.
> 
> It'll suit some people. Just make sure that's what you're looking for.


North Conway is only 15 minutes down the road.


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## NYDB (Mar 24, 2021)

Where my VT place is right now is kinda like that.  20 minutes to Manchester, 15 to londonderry, but nothing going on at all.  Quiet.  

I like it,, I just wish it snowed more. I'd like to be closer to more consistent touring opportunities too.


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## ss20 (Mar 24, 2021)

My ideal Eastern ski town for skiing location alone would have to be Pittsfield, VT on Route 100.  15 minutes to Pico, 20 minutes to Killington, 35 minutes to Sugarbush, 45 minutes to MRG.  

Second place would be somewhere between Killington and Okemo on Route 100.  From Plymouth you'd be 10 minutes to Killington Skyeship, 20 minutes to K proper/Pico, 15 minutes from Okemo, 40 minutes to Magic.  Throw Suicide 6 in there too...maybe 45 minutes?


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## snoseek (Mar 24, 2021)

abc said:


> Jackson? It maybe beautiful. But there's nothing there!
> 
> It's not a town, barely a village. More a spot on the map.
> 
> It'll suit some people. Just make sure that's what you're looking for.


Lots of great food options and a beautiful little town.


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## ss20 (Mar 24, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> Where my VT place is right now is kinda like that.  20 minutes to Manchester, 15 to londonderry, but nothing going on at all.  Quiet.
> 
> I like it,, I just wish it snowed more. I'd like to be closer to more consistent touring opportunities too.



Great spot.  My home base was Weston, VT.  That whole area is underrated for how much skiing there is quantity wise.  Bromley, Stratton, Magic, Okemo, Killington, Mount Snow all within one hour.  It's a great mix between snowmaking powerhouses, natural snow places, steeps, bumps, groomers.  I've only hit Bromley once but in the past 10 years I've been to all those places 15+ times each and the variety never gets old.


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## abc (Mar 24, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Lots of great food options


Really?


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## NYDB (Mar 24, 2021)

ss20 said:


> Great spot.  My home base was Weston, VT.  That whole area is underrated for how much skiing there is quantity wise.  Bromley, Stratton, Magic, Okemo, Killington, Mount Snow all within one hour.  It's a great mix between snowmaking powerhouses, natural snow places, steeps, bumps, groomers.  I've only hit Bromley once but in the past 10 years I've been to all those places 15+ times each and the variety never gets old.


Yeah, I wish I could hit Bromley more too, but the pass situation is such that ikon (or epic)+magic is the way to go.  

I like your Pittsfield and Plymouth ideas.  Something on echo lake would be nice.  Closer to better terrain and more snow.


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## boston_e (Mar 24, 2021)

JDMRoma said:


> I dont think Killington is quite an hour from Lebanon, could have sworn it was just over 30 minutes even with the slow crawl through route 4


Depends how far off of 89 you live in Hanover I'd guess.  Probably not quite an hour but pushing it.  Could make it a bit shorter parking at Skyship instead of KBL


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2021)

abc said:


> Really?



Yes really

And plenty more in Bartlett within ten minutes


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## abc (Mar 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Yes really
> 
> And plenty more in Bartlett within ten minutes


Examples?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 24, 2021)

abc said:


> Examples?


Shovel Handle
Thompson House
Shannon Door
Red Fox

To name some


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## snoseek (Mar 24, 2021)

Inn at thorn hill is great I hear.


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## abc (Mar 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Shovel Handle
> Thompson House
> Shannon Door
> Red Fox
> ...


Sorry... If 3 out of 4 "great food options" are pubs, that would be my definition of "nothing". 

North Conway has a lot more. But it's a pretty touristy town. Not sure about the retiree community. 

Somehow, I like Gorham more. Don't ask me why though


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## VTKilarney (Mar 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Shovel Handle
> Thompson House
> Shannon Door
> Red Fox
> ...



On that list I’ve only eaten at the Red Fox.  Their food is very average and the menu is straight from 1997.  (Think: chicken parmesan, coconut shrimp, chicken stir fry and steak tips)

Definitely not a “great food option.”


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## thebigo (Mar 25, 2021)

abc said:


> Sorry... If 3 out of 4 "great food options" are pubs, that would be my definition of "nothing".


Thank you, it is comments like this that give me hope.

Hope that many of our new neighbors will eventually tire of our great state, go back to where they came from and allow real estate to settle back to a more comfortable price for us natives.

As my wife has become fond of saying: "Don't portsmouth north conway."


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

abc said:


> Sorry... If 3 out of 4 "great food options" are pubs, that would be my definition of "nothing".
> 
> North Conway has a lot more. But it's a pretty touristy town. Not sure about the retiree community.
> 
> Somehow, I like Gorham more. Don't ask me why though



The MWV is a middle class ski destination by and large   With very few exceptions in the East, fine dining has been dead for 20 years in ski towns.  Even Stowe had far more upper end dining options 20-25 years ago than it does today.

Totally knew I shouldn't have bothered taking your argument bait.  You're insufferable with your constant desire to be a contrarian. 

And if finding good places to eat is your thing and your stated preference is Gorham over Jackson, your inexperience in the area is glaring.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> On that list I’ve only eaten at the Red Fox.  Their food is very average and the menu is straight from 1997.  (Think: chicken parmesan, coconut shrimp, chicken stir fry and steak tips)
> 
> Definitely not a “great food option.”



I haven't ate there, but have at the other three. I assumed it was good as the place is constantly packed.  

The point is that abc was scoffing at Jackson as a retirement town destination claiming there is nothing there.  That's simply not true, especially factoring in Bartlett right next door.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> if finding good places to eat is your thing and your stated preference is Gorham over Jackson, your inexperience in the area is glaring.


I didn’t say it’s “my thing”. It was you who use “great food options” as counter examples of Jackson having nothing there.

I genuinely thought I missed some good stuff there and asked for example. And I’m just being honest if only pubs are the only option, then I didn’t missed much.

I didn’t find any great food option at Gorham either. In fact, I gave up finding much food option in the area. I just felt Gorham more “real”. 

I go there to ski and outdoor stuff. I haven’t found other appeals yet. Still, I remain open to be enlightened.


----------



## abc (Mar 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Totally knew I shouldn't have bothered taking your argument bait. You're insufferable with your constant desire to be a contrarian.


Just because I have different preferences doesn’t make me a contrarian.

You’re assuming you represent all skiers. You don’t. Just because we all ski doesn’t mean we have no other interest just  as fervently. 

Re-read the title of this topic, “... factoring all issues “!


----------



## Newpylong (Mar 25, 2021)

boston_e said:


> Depends how far off of 89 you live in Hanover I'd guess.  Probably not quite an hour but pushing it.  Could make it a bit shorter parking at Skyship instead of KBL


Skyship is 40 minutes from Lebanon not driving like a maniac. I dont know anyone from this side who keeps going to the West Basin unless Bear and/or Skyeship are closed. It is significantly longer, busier, etc.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

abc said:


> Just because I have different preferences doesn’t make me a contrarian.
> 
> You’re assuming you represent all skiers. You don’t. Just because we all ski doesn’t mean we have no other interest just  as fervently.
> 
> Re-read the title of this topic, “... factoring all issues “!



WTF are you talking about?  You seriously are in the hall of fame for most annoying people to have a discussion with.  It's no wonder you are self described loner. 

To recap, some people suggested Jackson as a spot that THEY think is a good retirement option.

You responded that it's a spot on the map with nothing there. 

Others disagreed saying there's plenty of places to eat there and both Bartlett and N Conway are a short distance away.

I agreed with that assessment

You asked for dining suggestions.

I provided four.  Three that I have been to and enjoyed and one that I know is very popular.

Your NYC snob ass clapped back that pub food isn't great dining.  

How you from there make the leap that it's ME that represents all skiers is pretty amusing.  I never made such a claim.  You asked for recs. I made them. You decided you didn't like the recs.

Do whatever the F you want ABC.  Sit in some shitty motel in Gorham and read a book. No on GAF if Jackson isn't for you. It's not for everyone. No place is.

I suggest Google the next time you are looking for information about a place.  Your ability to converse one on one with actual humans leaves a lot to be desired.

Peace


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## Smellytele (Mar 25, 2021)

abc said:


> Really?


Not pubs Christmas Farm Inn, Wentworth, Thompson House, Highfields. 
More pub like Wildcat tavern, Shannon Door, also Shovel handle pub up by Black. Good lunch and breakfasts Yesterdays, and J-town deli.


----------



## NYDB (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm convinced.  If people from NYC don't like it it gets a higher rating in my book.  I'm going to have to check it out the next couple of years.  I have 9 years before the youngest is in college, 5 years more of fullish time work, so I'll be sticking to where I am for a bit.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Your NYC snob ass clapped back that pub food isn't great dining.
> 
> How you from there make the leap that it's ME that represents all skiers is pretty amusing. I never made such a claim. You asked for recs. I made them. You decided you didn't like the recs.


NYC'ers are snob precisely because there're "great food options" there!

You're the one who imply food options are indicative of a place having "something". While I don't equate two, I allow other suggestions as to whatever that "something" may include as a good town/village. So far, you provided none. But throw all kind of insult instead.

You're the "local" who's promoting what's good about the area. But you haven't come up with much. For people who wants to stay home after a good hike/ski, you have done a good promotion. 



> It's no wonder you are self described loner.


I'm a loner by nature. However, if the price to be a "non-loner" is to pretend to agree with others to stroke their ego, then I'm happy to be alone! 

Not needing to be around others and having my own ego stroked constantly makes my "loner" status perfectly tolerable.


----------



## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

abc said:


> NYC'ers are snob precisely because there're "great food options" there!
> 
> You're the one who imply food options are indicative of a place having "something". While I don't equate two, I allow other suggestions as to whatever that "something" may include as a good town/village. So far, you provided none. But throw all kind of insult instead.
> 
> ...



Your lack of self awareness is astonishing and you are a pro at projection.

I'm not the Director of the Chamber of Commerce for Jackson.  I don't know where the F you're coming up with this idea that I'm trying to "promote" Jackson.  I agreed with some folks assessment that Jackson is more than just a spot on the map and made the dumbass mistake of responding to your request for dining recommendations. 

  I don't give a shit if you or anyone else likes the Jackson area like I do.  My ego is just fine and some contrarian crackpot's approval doesn't matter to me one iota.   

 I also never said Jackson is my preference for where to retire.  Feel free to look back in this thread and you'll see I have four basic requirements.

1. Lakefront or quick access to a marina on a big lake.  Boating is just as important as skiing to me.
2. Reasonable access to a ski area or a few that I enjoy.  Basically about a 45 minute commute or less.
3. A decent variety of places to eat
4. A good live music venue

Throw those in the mixing bowl and I came up with somewhere near Plymouth, NH would be ideal for my preferences right now assuming my kids settle reasonably close when they grow up. I'll want to be near them hopefully.  Access to healthcare will also likely be more important in retirement than it is today for me.  

Sounds like you should just stay in NYC for retirement. 

When you get over yourself and can figure out how to have a normal conversation without the constant projection and arguing, we will be here.

Until then?

Google --->


----------



## 2Planker (Mar 25, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> North Conway is only 15 minutes down the road.


BOTH towns are a Bummer.  Nothing to see/do there...
Just keep on driving by.


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## abc (Mar 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Sounds like you should just stay in NYC for retirement.


I have said many times that's exactly what I will do! 

Fact being, I've "retired" a few years back. But a job landed on my lap, promising interesting work. So I'm now doing my 'retirement hobby' with pay. Much the same way many retired to the mountain and end up "working" for a free pass...



> figure out how to have a normal conversation


There's nothing "normal" about keyboard "conversations".

I have plenty of real world friends. Living in a real city allows far more in-person conversations.

Cultivating internet "virtual friends" is low on the priority.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

Google --->


----------



## Teleskier (Mar 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> With very few exceptions in the East, fine dining has been dead for 20 years in ski towns.  Even Stowe had far more upper end dining options 20-25 years ago than it does today.


Sadly it's happening everywhere in the US, not just ski towns. But I do feel it most acutely in Stowe, where good skiing and a range of good food options including white linen tablecloths went well together for a fun destination. (Please no comments that telemark skiers can't drink wine along with their VT beer). I miss Mes Ami among many others, including the classical music and white-linen at the Cliff House. 

I miss the old standard of a chef always striving to make the experience for the guest paramount... especially with properly staged courses. I unsuccessfully spent the last decade stressing to servers that I'm ordering my three/etc courses now to be kind to the chef, "oh yes sir, it will come out spaced and separately", only to have all three items come out at once right behind each other or even all together. Every friggin time... from 'fine dining' places. It's now all about what makes it easier on the chef, not best for the guest. I've given up ordering everything at once - the trust is broken - it gets ordered one at a time now. 

Fixe prix menus are also dying out. Trends say Millennials prefer to order separate items, even to their pricing detriment, apparently.  

The trust is broken on reservations too. If I made the reservation, the trust is that I will show up. Millennials broke that trust. So now I have to confirm 20 times that "yes, I am indeed coming" even though it sucks when having bad cell coverage in the mountains. 

Do the nicer things in life ever come back once they're gone and disappeared? Is this happening in Aspen too? That was also an amazing food scene, but haven't been for a while to note the changes. Probably same there too, but likely a little less so.


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## kingslug (Mar 25, 2021)

Stowe...The Bench for good middle of the road food
Harrisons for some really good food
Edelweiss deli for very good deli stuff and the best cookies
I gain weight while in Stowe because they have pretty good food..and beer.
I'm the opposite of a foodie..I don't really care. But if its there ..I'll eat it. 
At Park City lunch was a cliff bar and some water...good to go.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

Teleskier said:


> I miss Mes Ami



I bartended at Mes Amis Sunday and Monday nights 99-2001.  Easily the best restaurant job I ever had.  Such a great restaurant.

I'm still good friends with Chef Carole and several other Mes Amis alumni.  Carole is long retired from chef life.  She has been working part time at the candy shop in Spruce Peak Village the past few years.  So, if you are ever up there, stop in and say you miss Mes.  You will make her day.


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## cdskier (Mar 25, 2021)

Teleskier said:


> I miss the old standard of a chef always striving to make the experience for the guest paramount... especially with properly staged courses. I unsuccessfully spent the last decade stressing to servers that I'm ordering my three/etc courses now to be kind to the chef, "oh yes sir, it will come out spaced and separately", only to have all three items come out at once right behind each other or even all together. Every friggin time... from 'fine dining' places. It's now all about what makes it easier on the chef, not best for the guest. I've given up ordering everything at once - the trust is broken - it gets ordered one at a time now.


That's one of my biggest pet peeves. There's a bunch of restaurants I go to where I've now resorted to ordering a course at a time because I know they'll bring things too quickly otherwise.


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## AdironRider (Mar 25, 2021)

Jesus, DHS just gets in pissing matches with everyone these days. 

Names a restaurant he hasn't even eaten at, gets called on it being mediocre, then gets salty and goes right back to his tripe about how everything was better when he was a ski bum in Stowe for a year or two. 

How this guy continues to represent this forum is beyond me.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 25, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> Jesus, DHS just gets in pissing matches with everyone these days.
> 
> Names a restaurant he hasn't even eaten at, gets called on it being mediocre, then gets salty and goes right back to his tripe about how everything was better when he was a ski bum in Stowe for a year or two.
> 
> How this guy continues to represent this forum is beyond me.



Rent free bud

Rent free


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Totally knew I shouldn't have bothered taking your argument bait.  You're insufferable with your constant desire to be a contrarian.


lol

I can always count on abc to try to trash anything I post.


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> How this guy continues to represent this forum is beyond me.


lol this forum should be grateful that mods like dhs continue to want to deal with this forum's occasional crap.

An unnamed few of you are testament to my personal patience after almost 17 years of punishment!

lol and I wouldn't have it any other way!!


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## kingslug (Mar 25, 2021)

When did the first argument in history start...when the first person in history..met the second.


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## JimG. (Mar 25, 2021)

kingslug said:


> When did the first argument in history start...when the first person in history..met the second.


Ha I stopped arguing many years ago...arguing implies that you might change someone's opinion and I know that's not happening.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 25, 2021)

kingslug said:


> When did the first argument in history start...when the first person in history..met the second.



Why did you take the forbidden fruit or talk to the serpent?


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## Warp Daddy (Mar 25, 2021)

I see i haven't missed much during my hiatus . 
Bitchers gonna bitch, sometimes i wonder why anyone would want to moderate , seems almost masochistic .


But hang in there guys , don't let the bullshit wear u down. Longtime no talkee to DHS and JimG , glad u guys  are well


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## kingslug (Mar 25, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> Why did you take the forbidden fruit or talk to the serpent?


both


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## JimG. (Mar 26, 2021)

Warp Daddy said:


> I see i haven't missed much during my hiatus .
> Bitchers gonna bitch, sometimes i wonder why anyone would want to moderate , seems almost masochistic .
> 
> 
> But hang in there guys , don't let the bullshit wear u down. Longtime no talkee to DHS and JimG , glad u guys  are well


Hey Warp I've been spending most of my time on NYSkiblog recently, mostly because I've been skiing NY only this season but also because the discussions are more ski centric and adult.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 26, 2021)

JimG. said:


> lol
> 
> I can always count on abc to try to trash anything I post.


So it’s not just me......


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## Hawk (Mar 27, 2021)

DHS is fine.  You guys are missing what is going on here.  You have a Younger urbanite that loves NYC vs an older much more rural loving guy from NH.  Both really love where they are at.  DHS takes offence that most of the places he would consider decent eating where shat on by ABC.  I would probably react similarly.  I have been to NYC a bunch because my company is based there.  Of course there is fine dining.  But I could never live there.  Nope.  I guess I fall closer to DHS's ideal than ABC.


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## Smellytele (Mar 27, 2021)

Hawk said:


> DHS is fine.  You guys are missing what is going on here.  You have a Younger urbanite that loves NYC vs an older much more rural loving guy from NH.  Both really love where they are at.  DHS takes offence that most of the places he would consider decent eating where shat on by ABC.  I would probably react similarly.  I have been to NYC a bunch because my company is based there.  Of course there is fine dining.  But I could never live there.  Nope.  I guess I fall closer to DHS's ideal than ABC.


Not sure ABC is that young maybe older than DHS


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## ScottySkis (Mar 27, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Not sure ABC is that young maybe older than DHS


True but
A sounds older than d in my opinion


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## Hawk (Mar 27, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> Not sure ABC is that young maybe older than DHS


You think?   I don't know.  I never can tell.  He seems to have a youthful demeaner.


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## Tonyr (Mar 27, 2021)

ScottySkis said:


> True but
> A sounds older than d in my opinion


As someone who lives in NYC I hate when others give us a bad name (and I know there are lots that do down here) It's asinine to brush off pub food as nothing special. I entertain for a living and have eaten at pretty much every high-end restaurant in Manhattan, most of them dozens of times if they're located in Midtown.

While the best ones are very nice, I look forward to visiting my favorite pubs up here in New England just as much or more than a fancy place in NYC. Most times I'll take good hearty food in a casual setting any day over a stuffy meal. We're not all snobs down here, when you see an arrogant comment like that know that the person spewing it has no idea what they are really talking about when it comes to food. What's the old saying...."if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all."


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## Tonyr (Mar 27, 2021)

Hawk said:


> You think?   I don't know.  I never can tell.  He seems to have a youthful demeaner.


I think ABC is a woman, she/he had a profile on the Ski Divas forum and noticed that the profile was banned from that site. I think you need to be a woman to join that forum but I don't know for sure.


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## slatham (Mar 27, 2021)

Interesting how this thread had a meltdown just as the snow cover had a meltdown.......


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## deadheadskier (Mar 27, 2021)

Hawk said:


> DHS is fine.  You guys are missing what is going on here.  You have a Younger urbanite that loves NYC vs an older much more rural loving guy from NH.  Both really love where they are at.  DHS takes offence that most of the places he would consider decent eating where shat on by ABC.  I would probably react similarly.  I have been to NYC a bunch because my company is based there.  Of course there is fine dining.  But I could never live there.  Nope.  I guess I fall closer to DHS's ideal than ABC.



Oh, I take no offense to anything ABC says.  Lol
She can disagree, debate and argue away until her hearts content.  It's both amusing and kinda nutty 

She's stated she's semi-retired.  I'm mid 40s.


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## Hawk (Mar 27, 2021)

So I am way off as usual.  Oh well.


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## JimG. (Mar 27, 2021)

Hawk said:


> You think?   I don't know.  I never can tell.  He seems to have a youthful demeaner.


He is a she.


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## JimG. (Mar 27, 2021)

I have skied with April (abc) at Belleayre. As usual, her demeanor in person is much different than her online persona. I had fun skiing with her and Cornhead and I enjoyed our conversations.

This is another example of why I truly despise online communication. Not sure how a technology that does nothing but make anyone (including me I'm sure) who uses it seem like a total asshole became essential to life today. Just look around at the damage it has caused to society.


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## 1dog (Mar 27, 2021)

JimG. said:


> I have skied with April (abc) at Belleayre. As usual, her demeanor in person is much different than her online persona. I had fun skiing with her and Cornhead and I enjoyed our conversations.
> 
> This is another example of why I truly despise online communication. Not sure how a technology that does nothing but make anyone (including me I'm sure) who uses it seem like a total asshole became essential to life today. Just look around at the damage it has caused to society.


True dat. Hard to determine tone, intonation, even intent. Thank the Lord, is my one and only exposure to the  social disease referred to as social media. Its anything but.

Great doc is The Social Dilemma.  Worth the 90 mins.


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## kingslug (Mar 27, 2021)

We all know its easy to say anything you want from a computer..in person..not so much.  And some people do it on purpose..stir the bucket.....


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## JimG. (Mar 27, 2021)

kingslug said:


> And some people do it on purpose..stir the bucket.....


Who me?

I resemble that remark.


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## gladerider (Mar 27, 2021)

slatham said:


> Interesting how this thread had a meltdown just as the snow cover had a meltdown.......


end of a skiing season in a ski forum? yeah, many are cranky.....lol....


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## snoseek (Mar 27, 2021)

gladerider said:


> end of a skiing season in a ski forum? yeah, many are cranky.....lol....


I mean the season was coming along nicely and got ripped away. I'm pretty bullshit!


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## kingslug (Mar 28, 2021)

JimG. said:


> Who me?
> 
> I resemble that remark.


nah..well we all stir buckets some time..some just like a bigger bucket...like a barrel.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 28, 2021)

Made it through all ~300 posts, even the sidetracked discussion of pub gastronomy. Whew...

  This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately as we've been considering either potentially moving out west or to eastern PA, on a timeline, and that timeline is soon approaching quick.  Out west we've eliminated Montana & Colorado. Realistically we're down to moving to one of these 3 options:

* Utah* is currently in the lead & we actually really like Midway quite a bit.  It seems upper middle-class and very clean, with many families,  and you're right between Sundance & Park City/Canyons.  That's a pretty awesome spot with lots of lakes and rivers for boating & fishing too.  The east side of Heber City & Kamas also seem nice and are growing as well & right on top of millions of acres of national park.  I like how that area is very close to the skiing, yet you're outside of all the Park City nonsense & not living amongst tourists.  I do recall thetrailboss telling me public schools typically suck in Utah, so that's something I need to research.  The economy is absolutely booming in Utah & jobs are very plentiful, so that's a plus.

*Idaho* we've never been to but I feel like we should probably visit there to check it out.  I've heard Grand Targhee is an absolute gem & of course Jackson Hole wouldn't be too far at all, but I've also heard Driggs/Victor is dead, dead, dead, whereas others say it's growing quickly & probably wont be dead for long if you're the sort who wants to place a bet on moving to an area right before it booms.  It definitely seems way more affordable than most ski country for sure.  Looking on Redfin I see $500k & $600k homes that would be $1M or more elsewhere near snow. Big risk is, god forbid anything happened with my job, could I replace it out there?

*Pennsy* we're well familiar with as we live just over the Delaware.  If we just hop over the river to eastern PA & buy a house there, seasonal rentals in Vermont would have been our course of action, but something really wonderful happened to me last month & now I think what I'd do is buy a 2nd house in Vermont.  It looks like you can get decent homes near Magic for $180k - $250k that would be more than sufficient for ski season, and maybe an occasional summer / fall trip, and I'm familiar enough with Magic to know it would be a great place for my daughter to ski (though I dont know if their ski school is any good).  The big negative there is s.VT snow is wildly undependable & you can get entire years that stink.  And anecdotally, I've heard Vermont bludgeons 2nd homeowners too, so I'd need to look into that.

Lots to think about.


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## ss20 (Mar 29, 2021)

I don't think anyone here would advocate for owing a second home in VT unless you truly love where you're gonna be.  Big money pit from my understanding.  But it's not about the money at that point I'd hope!


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## NYDB (Mar 29, 2021)

BenedictGomez said:


> Made it through all ~300 posts, even the sidetracked discussion of pub gastronomy. Whew...
> 
> This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately as we've been considering either potentially moving out west or to eastern PA, on a timeline, and that timeline is soon approaching quick.  Out west we've eliminated Montana & Colorado. Realistically we're down to moving to one of these 3 options:
> 
> ...


You may want to check those prices again for so vt. A lot has changed since covid.   I think its more like 250 for a nice little fixer upper and 350+ for a place you could move into with minimal work.


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## NYDB (Mar 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I don't think anyone here would advocate for owing a second home in VT unless you truly love where you're gonna be.  Big money pit from my understanding.  But it's not about the money at that point I'd hope!


I have a modest place since 1996.  Its probably cost me $300,000 to keep it during that time period ( taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance, etc), and has appreciated about $170,000 during that time period.  So no, not a wise investment.  And no, its not at all about the money.


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## 1dog (Mar 29, 2021)

If its just about ROI in terms of money, Maybe not. If its time away w fam/friends, maybe worth it. Anyone who likes to tinker or has to have things a certain way at home, will have that x2 at a second or vacation home. If its just time and freedom from worry - just rent a seasonal rental.  When the water heater goes, you make a phone call - just like a tenant in an apartment. worry-free.

Costs you maybe $10-$18K a year for a Nov- April ski house. plus utilities. if you got 2, 3 or 4 families, its less than cost of a week in some tourist trap island resort. 
 In high season, $600-$1000 a night is not unusual. Each family gets one week alone and it more than pays for itself.

If well-to-do, $7500 a year isn't that high, and hey, rent it out for a week or two and cut that in half.   Best part is not lugging gear up every weekend. 

Take cost of your current house expenses- double it, add vacancy and animals( mice, groundhogs, even had a white minx in basement once), unreliable power supply, and lack of a good. caretaker and its a formula for headaches most of the year.

Most on here who have spent 15-25 years observing all forms of 'gettin' the goods' for skiing/riding/hiking/climbing understand that many have a sometimes secret admiration for those ski bums who have nothing better to do that ski powder days, have very low overhead, and don't have those huge invisible burdens on their shoulders- work, investments, balancing it all with leisure, family, friends, etc. 
But we all get old, and having something to fall back on is a good plan.


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## cdskier (Mar 29, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I don't think anyone here would advocate for owing a second home in VT unless you truly love where you're gonna be.  Big money pit from my understanding.  But it's not about the money at that point I'd hope!


Why do you say that? What makes a second home in VT different than other places? As a couple others have said, yes, you're going to spend money and shouldn't view it as an investment. But I'd argue that would be true of a number of places where you could buy a vacation home. I bought mine to use it and enjoy it. Don't really care what it is worth when I go to sell it down the road. From my perspective, I'm getting my money's worth out of it.


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## kingslug (Mar 29, 2021)

Our little condo has worked out just fine so far. We can rent it year round if we want and so far have put in a new floor and windows..about 14K so far. But its gone up in value at least 50K..and rent has paid for the improvement so far.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 29, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I have a modest place since 1996.  Its probably cost me $300,000 to keep it during that time period ( taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance, etc), and has appreciated about $170,000 during that time period.  So no, not a wise investment.  And no, its not at all about the money.



That's a net of a little over $425 a month, which doesn't seem "unwise" at all IMO if you've enjoyed it for 25 years, but YOMV.

As for home prices, I was just looking on Trulia, so those prices were legit.  That said, there was very little available which I'm sure is a function of COVID19, but COVID19's effect on the housing market will not be a durable one.  Economical reality will overtake emotion & fear once normality returns. Never a better time to sell than now though.


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## abc (Mar 29, 2021)

NY DirtBag said:


> I have a modest place since 1996.  Its probably cost me $300,000 to keep it during that time period ( taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance, etc), and has appreciated about $170,000 during that time period.  So no, not a wise investment.  And no, its not at all about the money.


But the "carrying cost" is for you to use it. It needs to be balanced against hotel cost if you didn't have the place. I bet it doesn't come up too shy. 

That's the attraction of real estate. What other investment you get to sleep it it?


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## Smellytele (Mar 29, 2021)

abc said:


> But the "carrying cost" is for you to use it. It needs to be balanced against hotel cost if you didn't have the place. I bet it doesn't come up too shy.
> 
> That's the attraction of real estate. What other investment you get to sleep it it?


I wouldn’t say hotel more like rental cost as you would have to compare it something of similar size and with similar amenities.


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## jimk (Mar 29, 2021)

This is an entertaining, but long read about life in an ideal mountain biking and offroading town (Moab):








						Life Lessons from a Moab Trailer
					

What I learned about love, loss, and landscape over two decades of living in a 1961 Artcraft mobile home in the Utah desert




					www.outsideonline.com


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 30, 2021)

T


jimk said:


> This is an entertaining, but long read about life in an ideal mountain biking and offroading town (Moab):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that is a super long read - somewhat all over the place at times


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## kingslug (Mar 30, 2021)

I'll be there in June..I'll let you know.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 30, 2021)

kingslug said:


> I'll be there in June..I'll let you know.



Moab is very cool!  We went twice last year once in May to hike and drive around and the second time to UTV - surprisingly there were a lot of people there.  We rented a RZR 1000.  It also was the first place we were able to eat at a restaurant again which was nice,


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## gladerider (Mar 30, 2021)

great read. haven't read anything that long in a while. thanks for sharing.


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## abc (Mar 30, 2021)

dblskifanatic said:


> Moab is very cool!  We went twice last year once in May to hike and drive around and the second time to UTV


How's the weather like in May? Not too hot yet?


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## kingslug (Mar 30, 2021)

We're going to repel off an arch..should be interesting.


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## bizarrefaith (Mar 30, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> I wouldn’t say hotel more like rental cost as you would have to compare it something of similar size and with similar amenities.


Part of the problem is the short-term rental market (on top of other market forces in ski areas) has destroyed the seasonal and long-term rental inventory, which drives more people to buy, further reducing rental inventory. I prefer to rent, and that's what we have done so far, but every year that we are in the market, feels like it gets harder to find a rental.

As far as ideal ski towns, not a "traditional" ski town but I think Littleton is nice in the East. 30 minutes or less from Cannon, Loon, BW. 1 hr from Burke, Wildcat, and the rock pile.  90 minutes from Jay, probably 2 hours or under from Sugarbush, Stowe, MRG. Has a nice little downtown, some decent food, good grocery store but is still affordable.


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## Edd (Mar 30, 2021)

Yeah, Littleton is a big winner in the New England conversation. Sunday River is an easy hit from there also. Western Maine, Northern NH, and northern VT are in play.


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## jimk (Mar 30, 2021)

abc said:


> How's the weather like in May? Not too hot yet?



If I'm not mistaken, day time high temps in May in Moab range from low 80s to high 80s as the month goes on.  In June they can average in the 90s.  Spring is a peak time in Moab.


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## crank (Mar 30, 2021)

May is good.


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## dblskifanatic (Mar 31, 2021)

abc said:


> How's the weather like in May? Not too hot yet?



We had perfect weather in May 70-80 degrees, very comfortable.  Even in Mid June it was beautiful.  Funny two weeks after that time it got much hotter.


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## snoseek (Mar 31, 2021)

The closer you get to summer the more you have to time your days. Nights are cool so wake up, ride, eat and chill by the river midday, sunset ride, eat more, sleep. Dead of summer when everyone seems to vacation is not the time to be there. April and early November are my favorite times


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## crank (Mar 31, 2021)

We were the in September and it was high 90s and low 100s.  We did most of our riding and hiking at higher altitudes which did take a bit of heat off.  

Fiery Furnace in Arches is lower but lots of shade from the canyon walls.  Really fun hiking in there.  You need to reserve a slot in advance.  Not sure why as it was not at all crowded.  We say 2 or 3 people.  Possible in case you get lost in there?

You gotta eat at the Sunset Grill which overlooks the town.  It was built by and was the home of the guy who discovered Uranium out there and has a bit of a museum.   Great spot.

For a mellow ride with great views check out Dead Horse Point state park.


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## snoseek (Mar 31, 2021)

crank said:


> We were the in September and it was high 90s and low 100s.  We did most of our riding and hiking at higher altitudes which did take a bit of heat off.
> 
> Fiery Furnace in Arches is lower but lots of shade from the canyon walls.  Really fun hiking in there.  You need to reserve a slot in advance.  Not sure why as it was not at all crowded.  We say 2 or 3 people.  Possible in case you get lost in there?
> 
> ...


I agree about dead horses. Its stunning up there and nice low stress spin with jaw dropping views!

Down low I'm a big fan of klondike as it's pretty quiet out there once on the trail and the variety is good.


----------



## jimk (Mar 31, 2021)

Dead Horse Point, UT, Spring 2019.  Hope to get back there again this year.


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 14, 2021)

abc said:


> I'm not leaving New York City. But if I were to get a 2nd home, top of my list to choose that's relatively cheap and good skiing would be Reno.
> 
> Perhaps because I used to live in California and ski Tahoe. Reno is close enough to day trip to many of the best mountains there. (and if people don't spoil it, I will neglect to mention the closest mountain which is neither Vail nor Alterra).
> 
> ...


Tahoe is a total shit show every weekend.


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 14, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I'll be moving out west this fall.  Even with all the traffic woes it's tough to beat the skiing options of SLC and you can't beat the housing prices of the area.  At this moment I'd like to work at Deer Valley or Sundance to escape the LCC traffic, although Alta/Snowbird has always been the dream.  Midweek tho it doesn't seem like its any problem to get up there.
> 
> Also looking at Carson City, NV at the moment.  30 minutes to Heavenly and 45 minutes to Northstar.  Cash in on those inflated CA wages.
> 
> ...


Bend and Bozeman have both grown so much that hardly anyone can afford to live there any longer.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 14, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> Bend and Bozeman have both grown so much that hardly anyone can afford to live there any longer.



Wow quoting my post from early in my living search!  So far the traffic going to/from Alta each day has been fine, even the couple of days they've ran out of parking so far.  The bus is reliable and the mountain actually pays us to carpool with other employees.


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## ss20 (Dec 14, 2021)

I'm also looking more and more at Lake Tahoe in the near-distant future.  I personally believe California it's self has become a bubble that is working on bursting its self.  The mass exodus may take some time but it has certainly begun.  For ha-ha's I looked/found a couple of studio apartments around Lake Tahoe for around $1,500 a month.  Crazy expensive?  Sure.  Less than I was thinking they'd be...and just the fact they're available too.  That does not exist in Jackson or Aspen or even Park City.


----------



## snoseek (Dec 14, 2021)

ss20 said:


> I'm also looking more and more at Lake Tahoe in the near-distant future.  I personally believe California it's self has become a bubble that is working on bursting its self.  The mass exodus may take some time but it has certainly begun.  For ha-ha's I looked/found a couple of studio apartments around Lake Tahoe for around $1,500 a month.  Crazy expensive?  Sure.  Less than I was thinking they'd be...and just the fact they're available too.  That does not exist in Jackson or Aspen or even Park City.


My plan out there before i ended up back here was to spend my summer seasons in Tahoe and Winters in Utah, Tahoe in the warm months is awesome but man there's some rough winters there.


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## abc (Dec 15, 2021)

snoseek said:


> Tahoe in the warm months is awesome but man there's some rough winters there.


There's also some awesome skiing there too.


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## snoseek (Dec 15, 2021)

abc said:


> There's also some awesome skiing there too.


I mean sure I get it but if you have any desire for consistency then go elsewhere. One year they didn't clear 80 inches at heavenly and kirkwood barely made it into March. The skiing sucked and they don't have east coast snowmaking that covers a good percentage. Those years are also tough when you gotta pay the rent. When it's on it's magic


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## abc (Dec 15, 2021)

snoseek said:


> but if you have any desire for consistency then go elsewhere


What makes Tahoe great is almost the inconsistency! 

The mega dumps and insane steeps are hard to find elsewhere. I dig that. 

Plus, when it's too warm or too dry, it's an easy commute down to the foothills at either CA/NV for some wicked mountain biking (which admittedly is my thing).


----------



## snoseek (Dec 15, 2021)

abc said:


> What makes Tahoe great is almost the inconsistency!
> 
> The mega dumps and insane steeps are hard to find elsewhere. I dig that.
> 
> Plus, when it's too warm or too dry, it's an easy commute down to the foothills at either CA/NV for some wicked mountain biking (which admittedly is my thing).


Hey I agree. The mtb riding in reno Carson has come a long way and when it's on the skiing is great but factoring in the whole making a living thing...that makes it tough. Plus when the fires get going some summers that can really shut things down. I can't imagine owning a business there


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 15, 2021)

The whole concept of seasonal wildfires is so wild to me.  I mean sure, we have hurricane season and some periodic punishing floods here in New England that can kill ya, but the gates of hell it is not.


----------



## snoseek (Dec 15, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> The whole concept of seasonal wildfires is so wild to me.  I mean sure, we have hurricane season and some periodic punishing floods here in New England that can kill ya, but the gates of hell it is not.


I only stayed for two summer seasons out there but it was an issue both. One of them was really bad enough that you really couldn't be outside hiking or biking almost all of the summer.


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 15, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> The whole concept of seasonal wildfires is so wild to me.  I mean sure, we have hurricane season and some periodic punishing floods here in New England that can kill ya, but the gates of hell it is not.


Blew my mind the first time I drove cross country and you could see a wall of smoke by Colorado and Wyoming from fires. Could smell it before that too.


----------



## kbroderick (Dec 15, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> The whole concept of seasonal wildfires is so wild to me.  I mean sure, we have hurricane season and some periodic punishing floods here in New England that can kill ya, but the gates of hell it is not.


The concept of "seasonal" wildfires is changing pretty rapidly, too. Wildfire seasons are getting longer (and hotter and drier) as a whole, which isn't great news for living in wildfire country (the definition of which is changing, too).


----------



## abc (Dec 15, 2021)

kbroderick said:


> The concept of "seasonal" wildfires is changing pretty rapidly, too. Wildfire seasons are getting longer (and hotter and drier) as a whole, which isn't great news for living in wildfire country (the definition of which is changing, too).


And to think 20 years ago those wild fires weren't "seasonal" but only once in a few years... 

And only in different, isolated areas, not spread across wide areas.


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 15, 2021)

snoseek said:


> My plan out there before i ended up back here was to spend my summer seasons in Tahoe and Winters in Utah, Tahoe in the warm months is awesome but man there's some rough winters there.


I drove through on a late June Saturday this past summer and the weekends to me looked intolerable. I didn’t stop once in fear of the insane crowd scene.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Dec 15, 2021)

kbroderick said:


> The concept of "seasonal" wildfires is changing pretty rapidly, too. Wildfire seasons are getting longer (and hotter and drier) as a whole, which isn't great news for living in wildfire country (the definition of which is changing, too).



On the bright side, the more they happen, the less they'll happen.


----------



## snoseek (Dec 15, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I drove through on a late June Saturday this past summer and the weekends to me looked intolerable. I didn’t stop once in fear of the insane crowd scene.


Oh its bad and that time of year is absolute peak but I never mind thats when you make the rent. September was my favorite. Even the end of August it would slack.


----------



## abc (Dec 15, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I drove through on a late June Saturday this past summer and the weekends to me looked intolerable. I didn’t stop once in fear of the insane crowd scene.


This past summer, it's intolerable everywhere in this whole freaking country! I guess you weren't at Utah this past June...  

Not just weekends. The whole summer!!!


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 16, 2021)

abc said:


> This past summer, it's intolerable everywhere in this whole freaking country! I guess you weren't at Utah this past June...
> 
> Not just weekends. The whole summer!!!


I was in Utah last June! Hiding out though just east of Zion building a new trail system. It’s still quiet over there.





__





						Upper Zion Mountain Bike Trail System
					





					www.utahmountainbiking.com


----------



## Hawk (Dec 16, 2021)

Taxes in California are insane.  There is the Reno option but I would want a different climate and overall landscape.  I don't think I would choose Tahoe based on my prior experiences most of which were discussed above in some maner.  My decision will be retirement based because that is comming soon.  We were looking into the Vancouver area and maybe Europe kind of an outside dream.  We also looked into the Bend Area and SLC.  Somewhere north of SLC might be the ticket with culture and decent food close by.


----------



## abc (Dec 16, 2021)

Hawk said:


> n. We were looking into the Vancouver area and maybe Europe kind of an outside dream.


What's the longest you can stay in Canada as a non-resident? Or Europe? 6 months?


----------



## Hawk (Dec 16, 2021)

There are several options.  You can stay for 6 months and appy for an extension and stay longer.  You can also apply for perminent resedency which is a longer process.  I know people who have reired there so I am sure there is a process and unless you have some kind of criminal record or blemish in your history, you can make it happen.


----------



## Edd (Dec 16, 2021)

Hawk said:


> There are several options.  You can stay for 6 months and appy for an extension and stay longer.  You can also apply for perminent resedency which is a longer process.  I know people who have reired there so I am sure there is a process and unless you have some kind of criminal record or blemish in your history, you can make it happen.


Isn’t there a fairly large amount of $ you’d have to put up to move to Canada? Also, I’m pretty sure Vancouver is more expensive than Tahoe generally speaking.


----------



## Hawk (Dec 16, 2021)

Hoestly Edd, I have not looked at all the specifics.  I am not even sure I would live in Vancouver.  One positive thing that I am interested in is not having to listen to continuous bithing about american politics and Covid.  That will be a bonus from moving up there that far outways any cost.


----------



## ss20 (Dec 16, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Taxes in California are insane.  There is the Reno option but I would want a different climate and overall landscape.  I don't think I would choose Tahoe based on my prior experiences most of which were discussed above in some maner.  My decision will be retirement based because that is comming soon.  We were looking into the Vancouver area and maybe Europe kind of an outside dream.  We also looked into the Bend Area and SLC.  Somewhere north of SLC might be the ticket with culture and decent food close by.



If you're north of SLC and relying on Snowbasin as your home mountain....be aware it's Epic and has experienced new crowding issues. 

I've been around the Draper/Provo area and it's really nice.  Probably where I'd go if I didn't have to stay close to Alta.  There is a nice commuter rail line that takes you into SLC.


----------



## Edd (Dec 16, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Hoestly Edd, I have not looked at all the specifics.  I am not even sure I would live in Vancouver.  One positive thing that I am interested in is not having to listen to continuous bithing about american politics and Covid.  That will be a bonus from moving up there that far outways any cost.


Don’t get me wrong, moving to Vancouver sounds dreamy. If $ were no object I’d make a beeline for it.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 16, 2021)

Hawk said:


> Hoestly Edd, I have not looked at all the specifics.  I am not even sure I would live in Vancouver.  One positive thing that I am interested in is not having to listen to continuous bithing about american politics and Covid.  That will be a bonus from moving up there that far outways any cost.


There is no covid in Canada? I am moving there now.


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## abc (Dec 16, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> There is no covid in Canada? I am moving there now.


The covid case number in Canada is a tiny fraction of that of the US.

I've spent a good chunk of my time up there this past summer. "No Covid" was part of the motivation. (The other part is I also like Canada a lot. And had looked into immigration in the past -- when a certain so-and-so was President. From what I could find, it's pretty difficult. So I'd be curious as to how other retiree managed that through some channels I missed)


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2021)

Quebec has investment visa programs periodically.  Pay for citizenship essentially.  Otherwise you have to have an employment skill in need such as being an RN or MD.


----------



## Smellytele (Dec 16, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Quebec has investment visa programs periodically.  Pay for citizenship essentially.  Otherwise you have to have an employment skill in need such as being an RN or MD.


So no retirees unless you “invest” in socialism.


----------



## Edd (Dec 16, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> So no retirees unless you “invest” in socialism.


Not actual socialism, right? Socialism is another bogeyman. So many bogeymen. Look under your bed, could be some socialism waiting to get you. BOO!


----------



## abc (Dec 16, 2021)

Moreover, the US is one of the few country that does NOT offer a pathway of $$$ for citizenship for the longest time!

We ask, instead the "poor, the sick and etc...". That's more socialism than the rest of the world. Just the kind of socialism that everyone is "free" to starve or work at minimum wage.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 16, 2021)

Smellytele said:


> So no retirees unless you “invest” in socialism.



They're not really looking for retirees.  They are looking for educated and work experienced high net worth individuals that will I vest $1.2M.  the investment is paid back in full in 5 years









						Quebec Business Immigration : Be an Investor in Quebec
					

The Quebec Immigrant Investor Program (QIIP) allows investors to obtain Canadian permanent residence by making a financial investment in the province of Quebec.




					www.canadavisa.com


----------



## Geoff (Dec 16, 2021)

Edd said:


> Don’t get me wrong, moving to Vancouver sounds dreamy. If $ were no object I’d make a beeline for it.


My sister has lived in Vancouver since the 1980s.   One of her co-workers has always had a house at Creekside across the street from the parking lot.   I probably have 100+ days at Whistler over the years staying at that house.   My sister and brother-in-law stopped downhill skiing years ago.  They head up to Cypress to XC ski.   Not my thing but it's really close to the city.   Hand me $5 million to buy into their housing market and I'd have no problem living there.   It's simply not affordable on my net worth.

If I didn't have the salt water thing as really important to my life, I think Santa Fe would be at the top of my list.  It's a great town.   Ski Santa Fe is a fun little ski area.  Taos is close.  It's no big deal to drive up into Colorado for some diversity.   ABQ is a pretty good airport.   I have friends with a house in Corrales.  That's pretty much the top suburb of Albuquerque and more affordable than Taos.


----------



## thebigo (Dec 16, 2021)

You can move to Canada if relocated by a multinational. We moved an engineer and his family from Egypt to Ontario just a few years back. I do not know every detail but there was no large investment. 

I was asked to relocate to Quebec a number of years ago, declined because I suck at learning languages; also declined a relocation to Munich in my 20s for the same reason. 

There is something compelling about the idea of international relocation but personally everytime I am out of the usa I am ready to come home after around 7 - 10 days.


----------



## bigbob (Dec 17, 2021)

If Les Otten does finally pull off the Balsums Resort re birth, I would move north to that area of NH. I just don't know which town or east or west side of Dixville Notch. I would look for a low property tax rate, which my current town of Lee does not have!


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 17, 2021)

If lower property taxes really mattered to me, I'd be looking Maine and not somewhere near Dixville.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 17, 2021)

thebigo said:


> You can move to Canada if relocated by a multinational. We moved an engineer and his family from Egypt to Ontario just a few years back. I do not know every detail but there was no large investment.
> 
> I was asked to relocate to Quebec a number of years ago, declined because I suck at learning languages; also declined a relocation to Munich in my 20s for the same reason.
> 
> There is something compelling about the idea of international relocation but personally everytime I am out of the usa I am ready to come home after around 7 - 10 days.


My sister is a Canadian citizen.  When my 89 year old mother in memory care dies, we can get in on a family reunification program.  Vancouver prices are so absurd that it’s not plausible.  

I keep looking at Grenada Spain.  Sierra Nevada is real mountains.  The Med is just to the south.  We’re talking about doing 90 days in Europe in the winter on monthly rentals as retirees.  Grenada is an option.  Barcelona is an option.  Nice is an option.  The Italian riviera is an option.  Live where it’s mild and skiing is a bus ride. It’s off season so there is lots of rental housing available


----------



## thebigo (Dec 17, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> If lower property taxes really mattered to me, I'd be looking Maine and not somewhere near Dixville.


To my knowledge maine taxes 401k disbursements as income. If you have spent your life working/saving and plan to be retired for any length of time, this works out to a tremendous amount of money. 

Best I can determine NH resort towns are the best deal for retirement in the northeast. Hebron, bridgewater, bartlett, Moultonborough, hart's location come to mind.


----------



## AdironRider (Dec 22, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> If lower property taxes really mattered to me, I'd be looking Maine and not somewhere near Dixville.



Maine has one of the highest overall tax burdens in the country.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> Maine has one of the highest overall tax burdens in the country.



I'm aware. I lived there.  I could still do so now or anywhere in VT or MA too with my current job.  I live in NH for several reasons, but the economics are a big one. 

But during retirement years that equation might change.   There are many towns in Maine with dirt cheap property taxes.  Those same places also have much more affordable real estate than NH. So, I'd need to do the math and figure out what my annual retirement income will be.  Does Maine's income and sales taxes exceed the premium we pay on property taxes in NH? There are estate taxes there to consider as well.  It will be a function of the nest egg I build over the next 15-20 years as to whether we move or stay put.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 22, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> Maine has one of the highest overall tax burdens in the country.


I haven’t looked recently but when I was contemplating changing mountains in the ASC malaise years, Carrabassett Valley had a property tax rate that looked like Killington when I bought there pre-Act 60.  $6-something mill rate.   I decided against Sugarloaf but the home ownership costs were way lower than at Killington.  

The state income tax rate in Maine is pretty ugly.  Even the bottom bracket is 5.8%.   They don’t tax military pensions so a lot of military retirees land there.


----------



## snoseek (Dec 22, 2021)

If you live in a town like fryberg you can at least make conway your goto place to buy stuff to avoid alot of the sales tax. That's gotta cut that burden quite a bit. Still got the income though.


----------



## machski (Dec 22, 2021)

abc said:


> And to think 20 years ago those wild fires weren't "seasonal" but only once in a few years...
> 
> And only in different, isolated areas, not spread across wide areas.


Ahh, forest fires are only climate related.  Not!  Perhaps if we want to talk growth of a fire and length of season.  But the amount of fires starting is also quite related to the massive growth in popularity if humans recreating in the wilds of the west.  Most of the fires are human originated, not natural ignition sources.  To pin western fire activity to just one factor is very popular but so non-scientific.  

BTW, the big Caldor Tahoe fire?  Yup, started by humans, I believe an arrest or 2 have been made in connection now.


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 22, 2021)

machski said:


> Ahh, forest fires are only climate related.  Not!  Perhaps if we want to talk growth of a fire and length of season.  But the amount of fires starting is also quite related to the massive growth in popularity if humans recreating in the wilds of the west.  Most of the fires are human originated, not natural ignition sources.  To pin western fire activity to just one factor is very popular but so non-scientific.
> 
> BTW, the big Caldor Tahoe fire?  Yup, started by humans, I believe an arrest or 2 have been made in connection now.


A bunch of different factors or ingredients come together forming a hot, steaming pile of poop sandwich.

A changing climate is definitely a big ingredient though.


----------



## bigbob (Dec 23, 2021)

thebigo said:


> To my knowledge maine taxes 401k disbursements as income. If you have spent your life working/saving and plan to be retired for any length of time, this works out to a tremendous amount of money.
> 
> Best I can determine NH resort towns are the best deal for retirement in the northeast. Hebron, bridgewater, bartlett, Moultonborough, hart's location come to mind.


There are plenty of towns in NH with tax rates that are lower than where I presently live along with lower property prices. Lincon NH also has a low tax rate. Colebrook has a higher rate than what I would be interested in. Columbia has a cheap rate. Most lake front towns have cheap rates and lower tax bills if you don't buy waterfront property.
 The Rangley area of Maine might be worth looking at also being close to Sugarloaf and Saddleback, but you have to look at the whole burden.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 23, 2021)

Rangeley and Bridgton areas are the two in Maine I'm thinking about researching down the line.   Having great boating nearby is equally as important to me as proximity to skiing.  So if I discover those areas are more affordable than retiring near Winnipesaukee, I'd consider them.  Lake Champlain and Lake George areas will also get a look.


----------



## PAabe (Dec 23, 2021)

Long off reality currently but southern Adirondacks like Indian lake or Speculator would be nice - lakefront, near fantastic paddling, local hills literally right there, Gore down the road, Vermont options within 2hr.  Closer to PA than Vermont and better summer activities imo.  Good snowshoeing and touring opportunities as well.

I assume taxes aren't great in NY though

Are there ski club lodges in NY or is that mostly a vermont thing?


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 23, 2021)

PAabe said:


> Long off reality currently but southern Adirondacks like Indian lake or Speculator would be nice - lakefront, near fantastic paddling, local hills literally right there, Gore down the road, Vermont options within 2hr.  Closer to PA than Vermont and better summer activities imo.  Good snowshoeing and touring opportunities as well.
> 
> I assume taxes aren't great in NY though
> 
> Are there ski club lodges in NY or is that mostly a vermont thing?


Indian lake and Speculator don’t really have great lakes for what DHS wants imo. I love that area and fish SoADK all the time but its pretty remote and the lakes aren’t very deep or large. Also very far from anything non-nature related and I think he’d appreciate some culture/dining options. Washington, Warren or Essex county might be more his wheelhouse with Killi and Gore less than an hour away and easy access to either Lake George or Champlain.


----------



## AdironRider (Dec 23, 2021)

I'd like to have a place to get away in Rangeley but living there full time in retirement would leave me with some healthcare availability concerns.


----------



## deadheadskier (Dec 23, 2021)

AdironRider said:


> I'd like to have a place to get away in Rangeley but living there full time in retirement would leave me with some healthcare availability concerns.



You're basically stuck with either Rumford Hospital who will transfer you to Lewiston or Farmington who will transfer you to Portland.

Bridgton has more appeal to me even though the Shawnee Peak and Sunday River options don't excite me as much as Saddleback.   The Long Lake and Sebago combo is far better than Rangeley lake for my tastes.  Though those are still not as great as Winnipesaukee. 1 hour to Portland would be nice too.


----------



## 2Planker (Dec 23, 2021)

thebigo said:


> To my knowledge *maine taxes 401k disbursements as income.* If you have spent your life working/saving and plan to be retired for any length of time, this works out to a tremendous amount of money.
> 
> Best I can determine NH resort towns are the best deal for retirement in the northeast. Hebron, bridgewater, bartlett, Moultonborough, hart's location come to mind.


Exactly !  NH is way better than MA, ME and VT


----------



## Former Sunday Rivah Rat (Dec 23, 2021)

I will take the White mountains of NH anyday. 48 4000 foot mountains.  
With the NH midweek Cannon 65+ pass only 39$ NH wins in a KO!


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 23, 2021)

2Planker said:


> Exactly !  NH is way better than MA, ME and VT


Centrally located


----------



## skiur (Dec 24, 2021)

Sunday Rivah Rat said:


> I will take the White mountains of NH anyday. 48 4000 foot mountains.
> With the NH midweek Cannon 65+ pass only 39$ NH wins in a KO!



I prefer the snow of Vermont over the elevation of NH.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 24, 2021)

ThatGuy said:


> Indian lake and Speculator don’t really have great lakes for what DHS wants imo. I love that area and fish SoADK all the time but its pretty remote and the lakes aren’t very deep or large. Also very far from anything non-nature related and I think he’d appreciate some culture/dining options. Washington, Warren or Essex county might be more his wheelhouse with Killi and Gore less than an hour away and easy access to either Lake George or Champlain.


We used to think we would get place in VT or NH. But as time has passed and the pandemic arose it became clear to us that staying in NY (despite the tax issues) is our best bet. So now we are looking in the Lake George and surrounding areas. As you mentioned only an hour or so to K and Gore and plenty of other options within 2 hours. We have no desire to live slope side or in a busy resort town.

VT went away because they tax social security which amazingly NY does not. Property taxes in NH are insane on a percentage basis, but that is balanced out by no taxes on retirement income. In the end, we decided there is no real good reason for us to leave NY.


----------



## raisingarizona (Dec 24, 2021)

JimG. said:


> We used to think we would get place in VT or NH. But as time has passed and the pandemic arose it became clear to us that staying in NY (despite the tax issues) is our best bet. So now we are looking in the Lake George and surrounding areas. As you mentioned only an hour or so to K and Gore and plenty of other options within 2 hours. We have no desire to live slope side or in a busy resort town.
> 
> VT went away because they tax social security which amazingly NY does not. Property taxes in NH are insane on a percentage basis, but that is balanced out by no taxes on retirement income. In the end, we decided there is no real good reason for us to leave NY.


I’m a big fan of living in a ski resort-less mountain/lake town.


----------



## kbroderick (Dec 24, 2021)

deadheadskier said:


> Rangeley and Bridgton areas are the two in Maine I'm thinking about researching down the line.   Having great boating nearby is equally as important to me as proximity to skiing.  So if I discover those areas are more affordable than retiring near Winnipesaukee, I'd consider them.  Lake Champlain and Lake George areas will also get a look.



Not sure about Bridgton, but I was talking to a guy from Rangeley yesterday who said that the real-estate boom is hitting there, too. One of the local contracting companies that used to average one call a week asking about new construction is now averaging one a day and has workers commuting in from hours away (and is still turning away a lot of work).


----------



## JimG. (Dec 25, 2021)

raisingarizona said:


> I’m a big fan of living in a ski resort-less mountain/lake town.


I like driving a little to go skiing. Even though I've skied for over 55 years I still get excited about it every day I go.  The drive to the slopes is a time to enjoy thinking about the adventure ahead. I think I would get complacent if I could just walk out the door to the slopes.


----------



## abc (Dec 25, 2021)

JimG. said:


> I think I would get complacent if I could just walk out the door to the slopes.


You think?

I've only rather recently started booking lodging slope side. Boy, was that luxury! And to ski right back to the door at the end of the day. 

Not that I care to actually LIVE slope side. But that's only because I much prefer a lively city life. As far as skiing goes, the closer the better for me.


----------



## JimG. (Dec 26, 2021)

abc said:


> Not that I care to actually LIVE slope side.


So we agree?


----------



## abc (Dec 26, 2021)

JimG. said:


> So we agree?


Neither of us snowboard. Does that count as agreement?


----------



## kbroderick (Dec 26, 2021)

JimG. said:


> I like driving a little to go skiing. Even though I've skied for over 55 years I still get excited about it every day I go.  The drive to the slopes is a time to enjoy thinking about the adventure ahead. I think I would get complacent if I could just walk out the door to the slopes.


I wouldn't want to (and couldn't afford to) live on the hill at most larger resorts, but having some form of skiing I can access without involving a car is *really* nice. Where I'm at now is a short drive to lift-served (and work, where I coach), but I can also walk across the street, put on my three-pin fishscale setup (lightweight tele) setup, and get into a network of logging roads.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 27, 2021)

abc said:


> I've only rather recently started booking lodging slope side. Boy, was that luxury! And to ski right back to the door at the end of the day.
> 
> Not that I care to actually LIVE slope side.


This sounds like the Fox and the Grapes Aesop fable.  I’ll take Aspen, pleeeeze.  LOL

If I can afford Aspen slopeside, I can afford the pied a terre in Manhattan or wherever.


----------



## abc (Dec 27, 2021)

Geoff said:


> If I can afford Aspen slopeside, I can afford the pied a terre in Manhattan or wherever.


I suspect many on this board can afford Pied a Terre in Manhattan. But they's prefer slope side in Aspen instead.

Come to think of it, I had stayed slope side at Aspen most times I ski there. Well actually Snowmass, as “Aspen” aka Ajax doesn’t have ski-in/ski-out slope side lodging anyway. And I declare I prefer Snowmass & Highland over Ajax after all. I also had a pied a terre in Manhattan. Gave that up post lockdown.

There’s another of your true Fox and the Grapes Aesop moment.


----------



## Newpylong (Dec 27, 2021)

bigbob said:


> If Les Otten does finally pull off the Balsums Resort re birth, I would move north to that area of NH. I just don't know which town or east or west side of Dixville Notch. I would look for a low property tax rate, which my current town of Lee does not have!



They're all pretty much the same east or west of the notch. More services in Colebrook due to population, but their tax rate is through the roof. We have a "camp" on Aker's Pond in Errol. We have fiber optic Internet in town and when we AirBnB it it goes quick. Our tax rate is low there now, about half of Enfield (NH) where we live.

Right now we love going up there because it's pretty relaxing and I do a lot of ATVing and my wife more snowmobiling. Besides those crowds there is a big fishing crowd. We are about 35 minutes from Sunday River or BMOM, and an hour from Saddleback. Not much for work up there besides the timber industry, I kinda want to see the redevelopment take off to offer those folks additional employment options more than anything. Though not interested in it becoming a "ski town". I can see Colebrook becoming that, but who knows if the scope grows as big as he says things will spread quici.


----------



## jimk (Dec 27, 2021)

This thread has caused me to reflect on the ski towns or places near good skiing that I've visited in my life and which ones I liked.
Here are a few and there's probably more:

Aspen, Vail, Breckenridge, Summit County CO, Steamboat, Crested Butte, Telluride CO;
Park City, Jackson WY, Big Sky, Taos, Driggs ID, Revelstoke, Banff, Bend, South Lake Tahoe, Tahoe City, Reno, Salt Lake City, Lake Placid; Sainte Anne de Beaupre'

Rangeley, Kingfield and Bethel ME;

Manchester, Killington, Stowe, Woodstock, Burlington and Waterbury VT;

Meredith and North Conway NH

You can sort of divide up the above places between _true slopeside ski resorts_ and then _towns or cities that happen to be near good skiing_.  For most of us that are not in the 1% owning a home in the big name slopeside resorts is almost unattainable and living in towns/cities that are near good skiing is a more realistic aspiration.
I must say that I liked Steamboat.  I only visited it for 4 days in Jan 2012, but it seemed like I could enjoy living there for a few years.  It was one of the best combinations I've seen of a real town with a ranching/cattle history, good skiing, and a pretty serious ski heritage/culture (Howelson Hill founded in 1914).  Real estate there is approaching 1% price range and it's not my absolute favorite ski terrain/mtn, but otherwise a very neat place and somewhat removed from the crazier touristy places in CO closer to Interstate 70.  I also thought that if choosing a town/city near good skiing, rather than a slopeside resort, then Burlington VT has a lot going for it, but it's cold and the local ski conditions are not as excellent as many western destinations.

I have sort of made my choice by continuing to visit my son in Salt Lake City for extended periods in recent winters.


----------



## abc (Dec 27, 2021)

jimk said:


> This thread has caused me to reflect on the ski towns or places near good skiing that I've visited in my life and which ones I liked.
> Here are a few and there's probably more:
> 
> Aspen, Vail, Breckenridge, Summit County CO, Steamboat, Crested Butte, Telluride CO;
> Park City, Jackson WY, Big Sky, Taos, Driggs ID, Revelstoke, Banff, Bend, South Lake Tahoe, Tahoe City, Reno, Salt Lake City, Lake Placid; Sainte Anne de Beaupre'


Vail isn't really a town. Big Sky is even less so. But yeah, I'd be happy with any of the rest as a ski base.



jimk said:


> For most of us that are not in the 1% owning a home in the big name slopeside resorts is almost unattainable and living in towns/cities that are near good skiing is a more *realistic* aspiration.


Reno is pretty affordable. Some find it less than desirable as a town though.

Telluride is probably the few truly "slope side" town, as the gondola makes it feels like right at the mountain. Even Aspen or Jackson, the real town is not at the foot of the ski mountain.

So yes, you're absolutely right a bit of a drive is more realistic. I wouldn't bother justifying it with the "anticipation" part. It's just better to live "in town" than slope side. Leave those for the visitors.

But as a visitor, I love the luxury of putting on my ski right at the door. For a week at a time.


----------



## Geoff (Dec 27, 2021)

abc said:


> I suspect many on this board can afford Pied a Terre in Manhattan. But they's prefer slope side in Aspen instead.
> 
> Come to think of it, I had stayed slope side at Aspen most times I ski there. Well actually Snowmass, as “Aspen” aka Ajax doesn’t have ski-in/ski-out slope side lodging anyway. And I declare I prefer Snowmass & Highland over Ajax after all. I also had a pied a terre in Manhattan. Gave that up post lockdown.
> 
> There’s another of your true Fox and the Grapes Aesop moment.


My mom used to have a 2 bedroom condo trailside at Stonebridge on Fanny Hill at Snowmass.   Walk out the front door of the unit, one step over the sidewalk, put your skis on.


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## raisingarizona (Dec 27, 2021)

abc said:


> Vail isn't really a town. Big Sky is even less so. But yeah, I'd be happy with any of the rest as a ski base.
> 
> 
> Reno is pretty affordable. Some find it less than desirable as a town though.
> ...


Red River NM has ski area that drops right into town. It’s not a world class ski resort but it’s close to Taos. Living in Red River and having a local ski pass and a Taos pass or ikon could be pretty sweet.


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## jimk (Dec 30, 2021)

I forgot that I took this photo of my son at Red River almost exactly ten years ago.





Here's my thoughts about my one and only day at Red River ski area: On January 1, 2012 we enjoyed a fine day at Red River Ski Area. It's a real good mountain with 1600' VD, five chairs, and 57 trails. Base 8750', summit 10350'. It was pretty much 100% open, although they had no new snow in the last two weeks. Conditions went from packed powder in the AM to a slightly scraped harder surface in the PM; mediocre western conditions, but would have been excellent mid-Atlantic conditions. It was sunny, 45 degs, with very little wind - beautiful day. RR has some very challenging terrain, about six runs as steep or steeper than Blue Knob's Extrovert or Snowshoe's Lower Shays, but with a longer sustained drop than either. Two we skied of this type were Mineshaft and Catskinner. There were nearby glades that would have been even tougher. It has nice advanced blue square runs down the full 1600' VD, but only a minimal number of greens. The town of RR directly abuts the base of the lifts and is maybe the size of Snowshoe's village, but more 1960-70s architecture. The area is popular with Texans and seemed like the kind of place you could enjoy a relatively affordable vacation.


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## 1dog (Dec 30, 2021)

abc said:


> The covid case number in Canada is a tiny fraction of that of the US.
> 
> I've spent a good chunk of my time up there this past summer. "No Covid" was part of the motivation. (The other part is I also like Canada a lot. And had looked into immigration in the past -- when a certain so-and-so was President. From what I could find, it's pretty difficult. So I'd be curious as to how other retiree managed that through some channels I missed)


That's interesting - I feel same way about yet another so-an-so. . .  but like Reagan said ' if we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape too, this is the last stand on earth'.

What if we had say 3 categories  of retirement living. 

The $50K a year planned income, the $150K, and the 'no-limit-I've-got$10M+ to spend in last 30 years. And assume no debt. Just living expenses.ski passes.snow tires!


I'll wager we've got most of us covered here in those cats.

Most people I have been in contact with who are high-net-worth individuals seem to , after a time, end up with either a couple different vacation/retirement spots, or more likely, just try a different spot every year or every few years.

They rent with no regard of cost and remove ownership hassles and expense.

Kind of Airbnb for the 1%.

I like the seasons and my bride loves the ocean, so NH fits that with decent tax treatment - all NE is close - VT, like Utah, has lower mountains and more snow( for the same meteorological reason - lake effect hits them 1st- sucks out moisture before next range - why we ski VT)

Assuming no debt, it makes sense on economic, liberty, and location for me.  Family is important, if I can't fly them to Powder MT/Revelstoke/fill-in-blank,  then they won't be able to come 
often enough to make it a good thing.

Its fun to hear everyones concepts an ideas. Happy New Year!


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## Edd (Dec 30, 2021)

Image not new but just saw for the first time on Instagram.

I’ll be taking the green pill as a Vail customer.


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## VTKilarney (Dec 30, 2021)

I haven't read the whole thread, but one sleeper town is Red Lodge, Montana.  Skiing and golf right in town.  The ski area has 2,400 feet of vert and good elevation.  Billings is an hour drive and you are on the doorstep of Yellowstone.  Lots of condos in town if you don't want to deal with mowing and shoveling.

And what about Craig, Colorado?  I have only driven through it, but it's close to Steamboat without the Steamboat prices.

Ruidoso, NM is also another town that I have looked at, although I am not sure how good their snow is.


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## machski (Dec 30, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> I haven't read the whole thread, but one sleeper town is Red Lodge, Montana.  Skiing and golf right in town.  The ski area has 2,400 feet of vert and good elevation.  Billings is an hour drive and you are on the doorstep of Yellowstone.  Lots of condos in town if you don't want to deal with mowing and shoveling.
> 
> And what about Craig, Colorado?  I have only driven through it, but it's close to Steamboat without the Steamboat prices.
> 
> Ruidoso, NM is also another town that I have looked at, although I am not sure how good their snow is.


Was just in Ruidoso on the 23rd.  Zero snow and I don't think Ski Apache was even opened yet.


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## 2Planker (Dec 30, 2021)

VTKilarney said:


> I haven't read the whole thread, but one sleeper town is Red Lodge, Montana.  Skiing and golf right in town.  The ski area has 2,400 feet of vert and good elevation.  Billings is an hour drive and you are on the doorstep of Yellowstone.  Lots of condos in town if you don't want to deal with mowing and shoveling.
> 
> And what about Craig, Colorado?  I have only driven through it, but it's close to Steamboat without the Steamboat prices.
> 
> Ruidoso, NM is also another town that I have looked at, although I am not sure how good their snow is.


Our friends just retired @ 55 and moved to Ruidoso  NM.  Took a lil getting used to, but 1 year later they love it


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## AdironRider (Dec 30, 2021)

Craig is a dying town next to a coal plant that is going to be shuttered in a few years and like an hour from Steamboat. Place sucks and is only going to get worse once the plant does close.


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## Edd (Feb 13, 2022)

Interesting read here: https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/7/22...equality-crisis-affordable-housing-healthcare

The gist is how the housing crisis in ski towns is a harbinger for non-ski communities.  I feel that where I live, never mind actual ski towns up here.


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## 180 (Feb 13, 2022)

Love this thread.  Its a common theme I hear on the lifts these days as we are all aging. I am afraid we are all going to be looking for cheap on snow housing for our retirements and there won;t be enough for us or the workers.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 13, 2022)

180 said:


> Love this thread.  Its a common theme I hear on the lifts these days as we are all aging. I am afraid we are all going to be looking for cheap on snow housing for our retirements and there won;t be enough for us or the workers.


What? Retirement and the cold? F that, I’m headed to Mexico.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 14, 2022)

Just jumping in here and haven't read much of the thread. But has anyone mentioned Greenville Maine yet? There's a plan to revitalize Big Squaw (Big Moose now I think) ski area, put in a Mtn Bike Park, new housing and a marina all on Moosehead Lake. I'm keeping my eye on things up there as much as possible. Could be a great all season place to settle.


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## 180 (Feb 15, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> Just jumping in here and haven't read much of the thread. But has anyone mentioned Greenville Maine yet? There's a plan to revitalize Big Squaw (Big Moose now I think) ski area, put in a Mtn Bike Park, new housing and a marina all on Moosehead Lake. I'm keeping my eye on things up there as much as possible. Could be a great all season place to settle.


Thats pretty far from everything


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## wa-loaf (Feb 15, 2022)

180 said:


> Thats pretty far from everything


Not any further than Sugarloaf, Saddleback, or Jay from the Boston area.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 15, 2022)

180 said:


> Thats pretty far from everything



Sunday River is really the only major Maine area that's "close" to anything.  90 minutes to Portland, 1 hr to Conway. Bethel is pretty sleepy.

Saddleback and Sugarloaf are both 2.5 hours from Portland.  While Greeneville looks way further away from Portland than those two, it's only about 15 minutes.

As a boater, Greenville would be appealing to me if the ski area pans out.   Moosehead is almost twice the size of Winnipesaukee (where I boat) with 5% the boating traffic.


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## 2Planker (Feb 15, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> Not any further than Sugarloaf, Saddleback, or Jay from the Boston area.


True,  BUT you're in the middle of No Where.  At least w/ The Loaf and Saddleback you have pretty good sized towns around, and access to "fairly good" Medical Care.  Good luck up in Greenville if you have anything requiring immediate medical attention.  Our neighbor from Bethel, had an MI up there while fishing and passed away as it took 45 mins  for a Game Warden and 1 EMT to arrive.  Transport was another  hour.  DOA after 1h 45mins.


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## Hawk (Feb 15, 2022)

I have been up to Moosehead enough to know that I would not retire or spend extended time up there.  It is infact, 20 minutes longer from Mass to greenville than the loaf whether you get off the turn pike in Dexter or Pitsfeild.  It's all back roads.  But that is irrelivant to this discussion.  It is also very culturally thin up there with not that much in the way of great food, music or culture.  

It seems that a lot of younger people on here have this idealistic idea of aging like your going to rip it up forever.  Let me fill you in.  Aging blows and many of you will not even be able to ski at a strong expert level once you hit 60.  So other avenues of entertainment will be neccisay. I am starting to think more like raising arizona with a location with access to a warmer friendlier climate.  Not Mexico or the islands but somewhere out west maybe.  Utah, Colorado or California are look more likely.


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## 2Planker (Feb 15, 2022)

Said it before:  Our friends just retired at 55 and moved from RI  to Ruidoso NM..  
Golf and skiing (at Apache) are both excellent !!


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## wa-loaf (Feb 15, 2022)

2Planker said:


> True,  BUT you're in the middle of No Where.  At least w/ The Loaf and Saddleback you have pretty good sized towns around, and access to "fairly good" Medical Care.  Good luck up in Greenville if you have anything requiring immediate medical attention.  Our neighbor from Bethel, had an MI up there while fishing and passed away as it took 45 mins  for a Game Warden and 1 EMT to arrive.  Transport was another  hour.  DOA after 1h 45mins.



You're actually probably better off in Greenville for that kind of thing. There's a hospital right in town and there's a good seaplane network right there if you are far up the lake. For the Loaf and Saddleback you have to get to Farmington for the nearest decent sized hospital. Bethel is probably Conway or Lewiston/Auburn. Plus this is about getting in early before development takes off. Growth will have some problems most likely, but more money will bring better infrastructure too.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 15, 2022)

2Planker said:


> True,  BUT you're in the middle of No Where.  At least w/ The Loaf and Saddleback you have pretty good sized towns around, and access to "fairly good" Medical Care.  Good luck up in Greenville if you have anything requiring immediate medical attention.  Our neighbor from Bethel, had an MI up there while fishing and passed away as it took 45 mins  for a Game Warden and 1 EMT to arrive.  Transport was another  hour.  DOA after 1h 45mins.



Yes and no.  The hospital in Farmington is actually much further away from Saddleback and Sugarloaf than Greenville hospital is from Big Squaw.  Farmington is more sophisticated than Greenville, but every since Maine Med bought Farmington, it's basically just an ED with limited services.  They stabilize the patients and send them off to Maine Medical Center.   Greenville does the same thing and them ships patients off to Eastern Maine Medical Center


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## Hawk (Feb 15, 2022)

From Sunday River you would go to Stephens Memorial in Norway.  At least that is where my friends have gone.  I have been luck so far.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 15, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I have been up to Moosehead enough to know that I would not retire or spend extended time up there.  It is infact, 20 minutes longer from Mass to greenville than the loaf whether you get off the turn pike in Dexter or Pitsfeild.  It's all back roads.  But that is irrelivant to this discussion.  It is also very culturally thin up there with not that much in the way of great food, music or culture.
> 
> It seems that a lot of younger people on here have this idealistic idea of aging like your going to rip it up forever.  Let me fill you in.  Aging blows and many of you will not even be able to ski at a strong expert level once you hit 60.  So other avenues of entertainment will be neccisay. I am starting to think more like raising arizona with a location with access to a warmer friendlier climate.  Not Mexico or the islands but somewhere out west maybe.  Utah, Colorado or California are look more likely.



I definitely agree with this.  I'd be more inclined to retire to the Brigdton area for that reason.  But Bridgton is at least twice the money as Greenville.


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## NYDB (Feb 15, 2022)

Hawk said:


> It seems that a lot of younger people on here have this idealistic idea of aging like your going to rip it up forever.  Let me fill you in.  Aging blows and many of you will not even be able to ski at a strong expert level once you hit 60.  So other avenues of entertainment will be neccisay. I am starting to think more like raising arizona with a location with access to a warmer friendlier climate.  Not Mexico or the islands but somewhere out west maybe.  Utah, Colorado or California are look more likely.


I don't think I will still be 'ripping it up' at 60, but I road and mountain bike with alot of friends who are in their mid 60's and still get after it.   I think mixing uphill days and xc skiing, etc. can keep the pounding to a minimum.  I'm only 47 and can already see the writing on the wall.   Gotta be smart with your days.   

From what I have seen, you have to keep the weight off and you have to keep your strength, flexibility and balance tuned up.  Easier said than done.  

The biggest wildcard for me is anticipating how much I will be able to tolerate / enjoy the cold at 60+.     We shall see.

Also, I see you list Colorado.  I'd be mindful about the elevation.   Many people can't tolerate living in it as they get older even if they are in otherwise good health.


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## mikec142 (Feb 15, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> I don't think I will still be 'ripping it up' at 60, but I road and mountain bike with alot of friends who are in their mid 60's and still get after it.   I think mixing uphill days and xc skiing, etc. can keep the pounding to a minimum.  I'm only 47 and can already see the writing on the wall.   Gotta be smart with your days.
> 
> From what I have seen, you have to keep the weight off and you have to keep your strength, flexibility and balance tuned up.  Easier said than done.
> 
> ...


This rings very true to me.  For the past five years I've done dry January which has coincided with diet and exercise.  The weight loss makes a tremendous difference.  Now I just have to do something to make it permanent so I don't have to fight the battle of the bulge every year.


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## JimG. (Feb 15, 2022)

Turning 64 in March still skiing 50 days a season.

Still able to ski everything on the hill albeit not as fast as when I was 30.


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## kbroderick (Feb 15, 2022)

Hawk said:


> From Sunday River you would go to Stephens Memorial in Norway.  At least that is where my friends have gone.  I have been luck so far.


From Sunday River, you'll usually end up going to Stephens if transported.

From elsewhere in Bethel, both Stephens and Rumford are very possible, with more serious and/or complex stuff heading towards CMMC (Lewiston) or Maine Med (Portland).


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## crank (Feb 15, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> I don't think I will still be 'ripping it up' at 60, but I road and mountain bike with alot of friends who are in their mid 60's and still get after it.   I think mixing uphill days and xc skiing, etc. can keep the pounding to a minimum.  I'm only 47 and can already see the writing on the wall.   Gotta be smart with your days.
> 
> From what I have seen, you have to keep the weight off and you have to keep your strength, flexibility and balance tuned up.  Easier said than done.
> 
> ...



I am turning 65 on Saturday.  Just got back from a week at Jackson Hole.  I still ski hard, ski hard runs and still ski moguls and trees, etc.  and  still ski them well.  However I ski more carefully.  I ski fast but I try not to ever let myself get out of control.  I used to ski that shit with abandon.  Couple of years ago I skied a steep face in like 4 turns biting off lots of vertical with each.  When I got to the bottom I felt like, I dunno, kind of nervous, like I could have really hurt myself and I couldn't, shouldn't be skiing like that anymore.  That was the last time really skied lights out pedal to the metal.

I exercise almost every day, mostly cardio but also weights and stretching and core work.  It makes a tremendous difference and it is a lot of work.  Worth it though.

I still mountain bike and hike a lot.  Definitely getting a bit weaker every year no matter how much I exercise.  I think I notice it more mountain biking than anything else.  Possibly because of limited places to ride nearby I have been riding the same trails for years.  Some technical climbs I used to make it up I no longer even try.  I can still ride technical terrain but add a steep hill to that and the strength is just no longer there.

Oh, ideal ski towns - we love Whitefish, MT.  However, I think we have decided we want to remain in the east where all our family and friends are.  We like Northwestern , MA.  More affordable and lower taxes than the NYC suburbs where we live.  Not a ski town but a lot closer than we are now.


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## 2Planker (Feb 15, 2022)

Greenville doesn't have a lot of things going on, that many retirees are looking for


JimG. said:


> Turning 64 in March still skiing 50 days a season.
> 
> Still able to ski everything on the hill albeit not as fast as when I was 30.


Did the WC 100K Vertical Challenge and got the Senior Citizen discount. 
 They said oldest person was previously 59


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## raisingarizona (Feb 15, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> Just jumping in here and haven't read much of the thread. But has anyone mentioned Greenville Maine yet? There's a plan to revitalize Big Squaw (Big Moose now I think) ski area, put in a Mtn Bike Park, new housing and a marina all on Moosehead Lake. I'm keeping my eye on things up there as much as possible. Could be a great all season place to settle.


Cold AF. That wet, humid Maine cold hurts old bodies. Like really badly.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 15, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I have been up to Moosehead enough to know that I would not retire or spend extended time up there.  It is infact, 20 minutes longer from Mass to greenville than the loaf whether you get off the turn pike in Dexter or Pitsfeild.  It's all back roads.  But that is irrelivant to this discussion.  It is also very culturally thin up there with not that much in the way of great food, music or culture.
> 
> It seems that a lot of younger people on here have this idealistic idea of aging like your going to rip it up forever.  Let me fill you in.  Aging blows and many of you will not even be able to ski at a strong expert level once you hit 60.  So other avenues of entertainment will be neccisay. I am starting to think more like raising arizona with a location with access to a warmer friendlier climate.  Not Mexico or the islands but somewhere out west maybe.  Utah, Colorado or California are look more likely.


I visited Maine 20 years ago while I was still living in Jackson for the Christmas holiday and although I thought it was incredibly beautiful I couldn't believe how cold that air was. We were visiting some nice little beach towns and that wet cold was unlike anything I ever felt or care to ever again. Again, this was while I was living in Jackson which is well known for it's bitter cold and yeah, it is really cold there it's nothing like Maine. And those dark, gloomy grey skies, F that. Lord that's depressing after a while. 

As some of you probably know I beat the snot out of myself skiing. I lived for big airs and didn't care much about transitions. I hucked a bunch of 60 to 100 foot airs that ended abruptly with hot tub installations, hey, it was the late 90's/early 2000's! I'm 46 now and I can't do anymore hard impacts and I'm scared to have another TBI. I've had 15+ concussions and around 18 broken bones, countless partial tears on both knees and shoulders and at 5 dislocations. My body aches and hurts real good now but I've done it. I got to ski the way I dreamed of as a little kid and I've skied more powder than most people could ever imagine. It was a killer run but I know that I'll never be at that level or this current level ten years from now. It's not physically possible. A skiing retirement for the average Joe retiring around 65 or 68 isn't going to get a whole lot more quality mileage out of their carcass. Sorry folks, themself the breaks. I'm sort of looking at things different than a bunch of people on here, I lived it and now I'm done and ready to go kick it in the desert or a Mexican beach town.

So what's my point here? I'm not even sure but for one, don't put everything off for retirement. You might not even make it there! Second, well I don't want everyone moving here, we are running out of water but man, this southwest weather thing is freaking sweet. The sun, no humidity, the endless outdoor rec. opportunities, the stacked climate zones etc. and some decent skiing is pretty nice. BTW, it was 60 here today and yesterday, the skiing was still really good but did I go up? Was I even thinking about skiing? NOPE! I stayed low in elevation and enjoyed the sun!

Maine? Being old and living with the Maine winters? Holy crap that sounds nuts to me!


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## foofy (Feb 15, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> So what's my point here? I'm not even sure but for one, *don't put everything off for retirement.*


This.  If you have the luxury...life and bodies take unexpected turns.


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## Tonyr (Feb 15, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Turning 64 in March still skiing 50 days a season.
> 
> Still able to ski everything on the hill albeit not as fast as when I was 30.



I skied with a friend of mine in Telluride last winter who is 65 and he absolutely still rips the groomers and bumps. I couldn't keep up with him on the groomers, it was pretty amazing watching him. He skis over 50 days a year as well.


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## foofy (Feb 15, 2022)

Tonyr said:


> I skied with a friend of mine in Telluride last winter who is 65 and he absolutely still rips the groomers and bumps. I couldn't keep up with him on the groomers, it was pretty amazing watching him. He skis over 50 days a year as well.


MRG has an inordinate number of these types.  It's humbling.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 15, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> I visited Maine 20 years ago while I was still living in Jackson for the Christmas holiday and although I thought it was incredibly beautiful I couldn't believe how cold that air was. We were visiting some nice little beach towns and that wet cold was unlike anything I ever felt or care to ever again. Again, this was while I was living in Jackson which is well known for it's bitter cold and yeah, it is really cold there it's nothing like Maine. And those dark, gloomy grey skies, F that. Lord that's depressing after a while.
> 
> As some of you probably know I beat the snot out of myself skiing. I lived for big airs and didn't care much about transitions. I hucked a bunch of 60 to 100 foot airs that ended abruptly with hot tub installations, hey, it was the late 90's/early 2000's! I'm 46 now and I can't do anymore hard impacts and I'm scared to have another TBI. I've had 15+ concussions and around 18 broken bones, countless partial tears on both knees and shoulders and at 5 dislocations. My body aches and hurts real good now but I've done it. I got to ski the way I dreamed of as a little kid and I've skied more powder than most people could ever imagine. It was a killer run but I know that I'll never be at that level or this current level ten years from now. It's not physically possible. A skiing retirement for the average Joe retiring around 65 or 68 isn't going to get a whole lot more quality mileage out of their carcass. Sorry folks, themself the breaks. I'm sort of looking at things different than a bunch of people on here, I lived it and now I'm done and ready to go kick it in the desert or a Mexican beach town.
> 
> ...



I can respect that

My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It's better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.

We all have to manage our burn somehow.  Some go hot and burnout fast, some want some time to let the fire smolder.


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## 2Planker (Feb 15, 2022)

There's quite a few MWV 60+ year olds who can definitely still rip it up.

We're 2-3 years away from a Mid Week Pass and skiing 3-4 days/week.  
Will probably Patrol again, somewhere local.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 15, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> My my, hey hey
> Rock and roll is here to stay
> It's better to burn out
> Than to fade away
> My my, hey hey.


More of a Hey Hey, My My guy myself


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## jimk (Feb 15, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> The biggest wildcard for me is anticipating how much I will be able to tolerate / enjoy the cold at 60+.     We shall see.


I skied the mid-Atlantic for 50 years, and now have skied Utah for the last 5 or 6.  I still have to force myself to dress lighter.  I know it's a cliche, but 25 degs in Utah feels like 40 degs in VA/WV/PA.  No lie.  Also, I've really learned to love April at Snowbird, few people, lots of sun, nice spring snow.


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## jimk (Feb 15, 2022)

A few 60+ geezer-rippers I've skied with in just the last two seasons, 2021 and 2022:
Steamboat, Jan 2022


Solitude, UT, Feb 2022


Snowbird, Feb 2022


Snowbird, Apr 2021


Snowbird, Apr 2021


Brighton, UT, March 2021



Snowbird, Apr 2021, this guy's 70+


Deer Valley, Mar 2021


Snowbird, Apr 2021, this geezer is me

I got plenty more geezer ski pictures where these came from


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## Tonyr (Feb 15, 2022)

foofy said:


> MRG has an inordinate number of these types.  It's humbling.


I believe that, I find it inspiring!


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## JimG. (Feb 15, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> So what's my point here? I'm not even sure but for one, don't put everything off for retirement.


One of the main reasons I retired at 57.


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## Edd (Feb 15, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> I visited Maine 20 years ago while I was still living in Jackson for the Christmas holiday and although I thought it was incredibly beautiful I couldn't believe how cold that air was. We were visiting some nice little beach towns and that wet cold was unlike anything I ever felt or care to ever again. Again, this was while I was living in Jackson which is well known for it's bitter cold and yeah, it is really cold there it's nothing like Maine. And those dark, gloomy grey skies, F that. Lord that's depressing after a while.
> 
> As some of you probably know I beat the snot out of myself skiing. I lived for big airs and didn't care much about transitions. I hucked a bunch of 60 to 100 foot airs that ended abruptly with hot tub installations, hey, it was the late 90's/early 2000's! I'm 46 now and I can't do anymore hard impacts and I'm scared to have another TBI. I've had 15+ concussions and around 18 broken bones, countless partial tears on both knees and shoulders and at 5 dislocations. My body aches and hurts real good now but I've done it. I got to ski the way I dreamed of as a little kid and I've skied more powder than most people could ever imagine. It was a killer run but I know that I'll never be at that level or this current level ten years from now. It's not physically possible. A skiing retirement for the average Joe retiring around 65 or 68 isn't going to get a whole lot more quality mileage out of their carcass. Sorry folks, themself the breaks. I'm sort of looking at things different than a bunch of people on here, I lived it and now I'm done and ready to go kick it in the desert or a Mexican beach town.
> 
> ...


Different strokes. I’m going to be 52 next month and love NH winters.  I’d like some Quebec winters even more.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 15, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> More of a Hey Hey, My My guy myself



Haha. True


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## raisingarizona (Feb 15, 2022)

One of the main reasons I retired at 57.

Good for you Jim! I’m not smart enough to have pulled that off!


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## raisingarizona (Feb 15, 2022)

Edd said:


> Different strokes. I’m going to be 52 next month and love NH winters.  I’d like some Quebec winters even more.


Haha! You’re nuts Edd! I’m kidding. Different strokes for sure and I’m not poo pooing on the east. I miss a lot of things about there but it ain’t the weather, the humidity or the bugs. New England is awesome, no doubt and I can see how a lot of you on here don’t want to leave.

I’ve definitely played with the idea of moving back somewhere out there. A place near Plattekill or in New Hampshire does have its appeal. I probably would if there was an opportunity to design and build a mountain bike trail network somewhere.


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## raisingarizona (Feb 15, 2022)

jimk said:


> A few 60+ geezer-rippers I've skied with in just the last two seasons, 2021 and 2022:
> Steamboat, Jan 2022
> View attachment 53190
> 
> ...


Beautiful pics Jimk. I’m impressed with older telemark skiers. I feel pain in my knees just watching them! It’s like doing a squat thrust for every turn, that’s tough.


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## ss20 (Feb 15, 2022)

I don't understand the fuss around getting older and skiing.... not at 60 at least.  I watch other instructors in their 60s and some in their 70s still skiing 7+ hours a day, full-time, on level 7/8 terrain.  Best regular skiers at Thunder Ridge/Big Birch were one of the co-owners and a person who's been involved in the ski operation since the beginning... both still rip incredible turns at 85 years+.  

If you ski well and have luck on your side (accidents and some genetics), no reason you can't ski at an expert level at 75yo and be out there most of the day.  60yo is wayyyyy too young to consider yourself "out".


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## Edd (Feb 16, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> Haha! You’re nuts Edd! I’m kidding. Different strokes for sure and I’m not poo pooing on the east. I miss a lot of things about there but it ain’t the weather, the humidity or the bugs. New England is awesome, no doubt and I can see how a lot of you on here don’t want to leave.
> 
> I’ve definitely played with the idea of moving back somewhere out there. A place near Plattekill or in New Hampshire does have its appeal. I probably would if there was an opportunity to design and build a mountain bike trail network somewhere.


I’m with you on bugs. I think that partly drives me to the beach and boating in the summer. I’m keen to take up mountain biking but the goddamn bugs here suck.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 16, 2022)

The humidity sucks, but it makes for far superior lake boating than almost anywhere out west.  That is ultimately what will keep me here in New England.  That plus far superior access to culture.  Boston is an hour.  NYC or Montreal within 5 hours.  Also vast amounts of coastline to explore some of which is only 20 minutes away from me.  I think the NH Seacoast is one of the very best 4 season locations to live in the country.  

I'm certainly jealous of the superior skiing out west, but that's not enough for me to give up all of the other benefits I enjoy here


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## 2Planker (Feb 16, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> The humidity sucks, but it makes for far superior lake boating than almost anywhere out west.  That is ultimately what will keep me here in New England.  That plus far superior access to culture.  Boston is an hour.  NYC or Montreal within 5 hours.  Also vast amounts of coastline to explore some of which is only 20 minutes away from me.  I think the NH Seacoast is one of the very best 4 season locations to live in the country.
> 
> I'm certainly jealous of the superior skiing out west, but that's not enough for me to give up all of the other benefits I enjoy here


A friend got transferred from MA/RI for work out to Lake Tahoe. 
That area has just about everything that NE does,  BUT after 3 years he was dying to head back east..

A small town home on a descent sized lake/pond, near a bunch of ski resorts is all we need.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 16, 2022)

2Planker said:


> A friend got transferred from MA/RI for work out to Lake Tahoe.
> That area has just about everything that NE does,  BUT after 3 years he was dying to head back east..
> 
> A small town home on a descent sized lake/pond, near a bunch of ski resorts is all we need.



I've certainly considered Tahoe, but the water temperature is a solid ten degrees colder than Winnipesaukee.  Nevermind you have to be a gazillionaire to afford a slip on that lake. 

Nothing better than parking our boat on a sandbar on Winnipesaukee on a hot and humid July evening, hanging out in a tube in 80 degree water, beer in hand and watching the sun go down.  Totally melts life stresses away.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 16, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> I've certainly considered Tahoe, but the water temperature is a solid ten degrees colder than Winnipesaukee.  Nevermind you have to be a gazillionaire to afford a slip on that lake.
> 
> Nothing better than parking our boat on a sandbar on Winnipesaukee on a hot and humid July evening, hanging out in a tube in 80 degree water, beer in hand and watching the sun go down.  Totally melts life stresses away.



There's a lot of appeal to moving out west, but it seems their droughts just keep getting worse every year. Water is really going to be an issue and no thanks on the forrest fires.


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## Hawk (Feb 16, 2022)

I too have friends like Jim and others that are 60 plus and still ripping it.  Jim has always made me think I could be that guy.  I have loved his reports over the years.

But.....I have 10x friends that are in their 50's with hip or knee or anckle relplacements.  Others with back issues so bad they quit the sport altogether.  I am 55 and still ski 60 days a year and mostly healthy.  I atribute it to still exercising.  I mountain bike in the Boston area year round and the MRV all summer.  I road bike quite a bit and do the PMC every year so my fitness is pretty good.  I came from sking with the freestyle crew at SR for years so my style was always bumps and trees.  Beat the living shit out of myself for years.  But the end is comming and I can feel it.  I ski with pain every day.  Not bad pain but it is there.  The 60 + crew is a gifted and very luck group.  I ski with them all the time and envy them.  But they are most certainly the minority.  I will bet that most of you guys will not be part of the 60's group still sking bumps and trees.   

I guess the point is that most people retire in thier 60's and at that point there is a small minority of the overall ski population that can ski hard still so good weather, good conditions and other off mountain entertainment is more of a priority for us.


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## Hawk (Feb 16, 2022)

wa-loaf said:


> There's a lot of appeal to moving out west, but it seems their droughts just keep getting worse every year. Water is really going to be an issue and no thanks on the forrest fires.


So you would rather ski cold ass climate with regular Ice on the trails in a remote area for the rest of your life?  The way weather is going, less snow and more shit will be the norm in New England.


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## jaytrem (Feb 16, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> Beautiful pics Jimk. I’m impressed with older telemark skiers. I feel pain in my knees just watching them! It’s like doing a squat thrust for every turn, that’s tough.


A couple tele skiers have told me their knees feel better on tele skis than regular.  So far there's not much difference to me.  Tele is much better exercise though. Having bad luck this year though, snapped a cable on one pair and tore the binding off another.  Third pair still works, but don't love the skis.  Need to get busy fixin' stuff.


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## wa-loaf (Feb 16, 2022)

Hawk said:


> So you would rather ski cold ass climate with regular Ice on the trails in a remote area for the rest of your life?  The way weather is going, less snow and more shit will be the norm in New England.



I grew up in Maine so the weather doesn't bother me. I'm not committed to anything right now, but I'm 53 and thinking about where I want to end up. Like I said the West has a lot of appeal, but it also has its issues. I'm not telling you where to go. I know I don't like the heat, I've spent a summer in AZ and 120 is no fun. Nothing beats summer on a lake in NE. I'm happy skiing in NE and taking a trip out west when it suits me. Though if it was affordable Wyoming would be a great place to end up. Maybe Montana or Idaho ... anyway I just pointed out a place that has a lot of potential in the near future that is currently fairly inexpensive.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 16, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I too have friends like Jim and others that are 60 plus and still ripping it.  Jim has always made me think I could be that guy.  I have loved his reports over the years.
> 
> But.....I have 10x friends that are in their 50's with hip or knee or anckle relplacements.  Others with back issues so bad they quit the sport altogether.  I am 55 and still ski 60 days a year and mostly healthy.  I atribute it to still exercising.  I mountain bike in the Boston area year round and the MRV all summer.  I road bike quite a bit and do the PMC every year so my fitness is pretty good.  I came from sking with the freestyle crew at SR for years so my style was always bumps and trees.  Beat the living shit out of myself for years.  But the end is comming and I can feel it.  I ski with pain every day.  Not bad pain but it is there.  The 60 + crew is a gifted and very luck group.  I ski with them all the time and envy them.  But they are most certainly the minority.  I will bet that most of you guys will not be part of the 60's group still sking bumps and trees.
> 
> I guess the point is that most people retire in thier 60's and at that point there is a small minority of the overall ski population that can ski hard still so good weather, good conditions and other off mountain entertainment is more of a priority for us.



I too grew up primarily a bump and tree skier.  I would pound bumps all day long and only viewed groomed terrain as a means to get to the bumps and trees.  

Around age 30 I made the conscious decision to reduce the amount of bumps I skied to help preserve my body.   I started mixing in about 25% of my time skiing groomers.  At 40 I shifted to about 50/50.   

I've actually grown to really love carving groomers and feel I'm actually improving in that aspect of my skiing.  Where as with bumps and trees, I'm just trying to preserve my skills.  I'll never be as good at bumps and trees as I was in my 20s.  I just don't have the same athleticism as I did then.  This year at age 46 I actually started racing and very much have enjoyed that experience between the beer league team I'm on and running Nastar at Gunstock. 

I agree with you that people who can still rip in their 60s are a rare exception and not the norm.  I actually skied with a 70 year old on Sunday who was ranked 9th in the country for his age at Nastar.  Only started racing at 66 too.  He ripped.  Was beating me by a full second on the handful of runs we did together down the course.  Very inspiring


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## crank (Feb 16, 2022)

We've taken a few hiking/mtb trips out west in September after Labor Day.  The national parks are full of fit retirees at that time of year.  Last september we did a pretty tough, steep, though not super long, ranger guided scramble to a hidden cliff dwelling in Mesa Verde and there were some 70+ year olds who were managing just fine.

I think part of it is genes and part of it is continuous exercise and weight control.

PS.  I've skied with Jim K a few times.  Places like Snow Basin, MRG.  Dude rips.


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## Razor (Feb 16, 2022)

I'm 75 and still ski everything on the mountain,  Can go a full day if it's good.  Love the trees.  My wife is 72 and still does everything I do.  In fact, she's better as she grew up skiing while I didn't start until after college.  We're really lucky as we've been healthy.  But also, I do an hour and a half of working out 6 days/week year round, alternating between the gym and road bike or other aerobic activity.  Been doing it for many, many years.  It's just part of the day.  Not that many are willing to pay the price as they get older.


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## Edd (Feb 16, 2022)

A friend of mine often says use it or lose it, which I take to heart. At 51, I’m watching some longtime friends physically deteriorate and show no interest in exercising at all. Completely baffles me.


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## Hawk (Feb 16, 2022)

No doubt exercise helps but if you can ski all day in your 70's then you are a genetic anomily.  Myself and a bunch of the people I ski with at Sugarbush have the same commitment to excercise, diet and stretching and a good portion of us are breaking down.  Hips, knees and other ailments are the result of use.  There is no diet and exercise that will cure or prevent the body from breaking down.  You have to have superior genetics and good luck to beat father time.

But...There is a guy named Hugo at Sugarbush who is 80+ that I skied with during the storm the other week.  He did Lixi's and Moonshine with me and my wife and did half trail pulls on both, total smile on his face and ready for more. He truely is my hero.


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## NYDB (Feb 16, 2022)

Edd said:


> A friend of mine often says use it or lose it, which I take to heart. At 51, I’m watching some longtime friends physically deteriorate and show no interest in exercising at all. Completely baffles me.


I'm 47 and I see it with my non cyling friends too.  Less activity/more eating/more drinking booze leads to being sedentary.  In a couple of years they won't have the choice to do some activities anymore.  It is tough to fight that momentum.    I end up just opting out of  alot of social gatherings that are booze/food centric.  

My advice is to become friends with roadies.  Being skinny by normal standards is still fat for road cycling.  Being light helps.  You don't see many big active older people.  


Hawk said:


> No doubt exercise helps but if you can ski all day in your 70's then you are a genetic anomily.  Myself and a bunch of the people I ski with at Sugarbush have the same commitment to excercise, diet and stretching and a good portion of us are breaking down.  Hips, knees and other ailments are the result of use.  There is no diet and exercise that will cure or prevent the body from breaking down.  You have to have superior genetics and good luck to beat father time.
> 
> But...There is a guy named Hugo at Sugarbush who is 80+ that I skied with during the storm the other week.  He did Lixi's and Moonshine with me and my wife and did half trail pulls on both, total smile on his face and ready for more. He truely is my hero.


You just said you used to beat the living shit out of yourself for years.  Not all of us did that.   That has consequences.  

I will agree that there is a bit of luck involved.  Genetics and injuries are sometimes out of your control


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## abc (Feb 16, 2022)

Hawk said:


> Hips, knees and other ailments are the result of use. There is no diet and exercise that will cure or prevent the body from breaking down. You have to have superior genetics and good luck to beat father time.


"Breaking down" happens a lot later in life than what most people see. The human body is bred to repair itself. 

However, injuries, especially incompletely healed injuries, are much more likely the cause of the "ailment" that plagues most 50-60 year olds. 

Exercise is one way to help "restore" proper function of the body, after "use" or far more importantly, post injury. Building up muscles so the ligaments and tendons endure less stress... etc.



Edd said:


> A friend of mine often says use it or lose it, which I take to heart. At 51, I’m watching some longtime friends physically deteriorate and show no interest in exercising at all. Completely baffles me.


"Exercise" can be fun or boring, depending on many factors. I definitely "mellow down" as I get older. I'm no longer excited about perceived danger such as going down a mountain bike single track trail with trees whizzing by, or the heart stopping drop of a waterfall (ok, small ledges) in my kayak. 

The "tempering" of some of those feedback moments certainly affected my motivation of doing some of the activities. I now have to occasionally force myself to get out to do things I KNOW is fun, even though in the past I never even hesitate a moment to jump on those opportunity. 

It's not a conscious thing either. It just happened. I now look for "flow" where I used to look for excitement. It's not quite the same though...  

Hitting the gym is more of a necessity than love. Again, I used to feel the "high" of the endorphin kicking in when I exercise in the gym. Now that endorphin machine had slowed considerably, I had to work harder to get it started. 

Sucks.


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## Tonyr (Feb 16, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> The humidity sucks, but it makes for far superior lake boating than almost anywhere out west.  That is ultimately what will keep me here in New England.  That plus far superior access to culture.  Boston is an hour.  NYC or Montreal within 5 hours.  Also vast amounts of coastline to explore some of which is only 20 minutes away from me.  I think the NH Seacoast is one of the very best 4 season locations to live in the country.
> 
> I'm certainly jealous of the superior skiing out west, but that's not enough for me to give up all of the other benefits I enjoy here


I've never skied in NH but we were up there last summer to do some hiking. It is georgous in NH during the summers. I've heard to ski VT in the winters and hike NH in the summers. The sky in that first photo looks fake!


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## x10003q (Feb 16, 2022)

Hawk said:


> So you would rather ski cold ass climate with regular Ice on the trails in a remote area for the rest of your life?  The way weather is going, less snow and more shit will be the norm in New England.


The answer for us is looking like continue to live/ski in the East, but rent for a month out West during ski season.


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## Hawk (Feb 16, 2022)

I have skinny biker friends that have cronic knee and back pain at 50.  I have skinny marathon friends that have run sub 4 hr marathons that now need hip replacements at 45.  They all have been injury free and are breaking down because of use.  It occurs and I don't agree with your assessment.


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## Hawk (Feb 16, 2022)

x10003q said:


> The answer for us is looking like continue to live/ski in the East, but rent for a month out West during ski season.


Yup that is what I plan to do.  Out West and Europe.  I plan to do Europe for a whole season while I still have something left in the tank.


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## abc (Feb 16, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I have skinny biker friends that have cronic knee and back pain at 50.  I have skinny marathon friends that have run sub 4 hr marathons that now need hip replacements at 45.  They all have been injury free and are breaking down because of use.  It occurs and I don't agree with your assessment.


Roadies with knee problem is relatively rare to hear!

I came to road biking post a ski related knee injury, then got hooked on cycling. Amongst the people I bike with, half of them are runners recovering from foot/knee "over use" injuries (*) and then got hooked on cycling. Being non-weight-bearing, foot/knees don't usually get trashed on bike rides. They really have to do something bad to have their knees "break down" on them while on bike.

Cycling carries many other risks, but knee isn't usually one of them. Obviously it can happen to some individual, but it's just not typical.

(*) I put "over use" in quotation mark. As quite often the case many of these injuries are when the weekend warrior doesn't give their body the time to repair itself between workouts.


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## jimk (Feb 16, 2022)

Reading the last couple pages of this thread, after just popping an ibuprofen and skiing three consecutive days, with the 4th set up for tomorrow.  

I'm a pokey old geezer who once in a while turns on the juice.  Saving your energy for when you really need it/want it is pretty critical for older skiers.  Skiing snowbird a lot is very humbling.  There are tons of older skiers out here that can crush me and on a powder day mega-tons!   It's taken me several years to learn how to "manage the mtn", that is, knowing where I have to focus at Snowbird, where I can relax, where to ski when I'm tired.  I'm retired and ski a lot of partial days, that helps a lot.  I'd rather ski good/interesting terrain slowly, than crappy terrain fast.  I'm not into vertical just for the sake of vertical.

I ride an old hybrid bike in the off season, for sweat, not speed.  Biking for me is like medicine for my knees.  Makes them feel less arthritic, rather than more.

The telemarker in a couple of my earlier photos is the same guy.  He's 67, a year younger than me, and is a fitness animal.  Big time road cyclist.  Does some crazy Wasatch mtn hikes in the off season involving tens of thousands of vertical in a day.  I met him for a hike once and he road his bike to and from the hike.  He skis bumps faster on tele than most any 67 year old alpine skier I've ever been around.  Might ski with him again tomorrow at Solitude.

Crank is a relative youngster and a good, strong skier.  His wife is a super fit lady.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 16, 2022)

mikec142 said:


> I just have to do something to make it permanent so I don't have to fight the battle of the bulge every year.



My advice?  Do the math and find your status quo caloric intake.  Then download a calorie counting app to your phone and enter everything you eat.  I KNOW, it SOUNDS like a tremendous pain-in-the-azz, but after a month it becomes a part of your life, and so long as you do this it is literally impossible to gain weight outside of some extraneous medical condition.


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## jimk (Feb 16, 2022)

Hawk said:


> I too have friends like Jim and others that are 60 plus and still ripping it.  Jim has always made me think I could be that guy.  I have loved his reports over the years.
> 
> But.....I have 10x friends that are in their 50's with hip or knee or anckle relplacements.  Others with back issues so bad they quit the sport altogether.  I am 55 and still ski 60 days a year and mostly healthy.  I atribute it to still exercising.  I mountain bike in the Boston area year round and the MRV all summer.  I road bike quite a bit and do the PMC every year so my fitness is pretty good.  I came from sking with the freestyle crew at SR for years so my style was always bumps and trees.  Beat the living shit out of myself for years.  But the end is comming and I can feel it.  I ski with pain every day.  Not bad pain but it is there.  The 60 + crew is a gifted and very luck group.  I ski with them all the time and envy them.  But they are most certainly the minority.  I will bet that most of you guys will not be part of the 60's group still sking bumps and trees.
> 
> I guess the point is that most people retire in thier 60's and at that point there is a small minority of the overall ski population that can ski hard still so good weather, good conditions and other off mountain entertainment is more of a priority for us.


Websites like this and Ski Talk and down my way DCSki have been great motivators for me as I got older.  Love the stoke, love hanging with my "tribe".  You wouldn't believe the network of ski buddies I've met through them over the last 20 years.  Meanwhile, several of my ski buddies from my teens-40s have long since given up the sport.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 16, 2022)

ss20 said:


> I don't understand the fuss around getting older and skiing.... not at 60 at least.  I watch other instructors in their 60s and some in their 70s still skiing 7+ hours a day, full-time, on level 7/8 terrain.



Can I assume they all stayed in shape (skinny) and worked out 3 or 4 times a week?


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## crank (Feb 16, 2022)

x10003q said:


> The answer for us is looking like continue to live/ski in the East, but rent for a month out West during ski season.



We have friends that do this.  One good old, 65-year-old, friend we skied with last week at Jackson Hole spent around 7 or 8 weeks there last season and less than 4 this year due to lack of powder skiing.  He remains flexible.  

We have another friend who rented a condo in Steamboat January 2020.  He skipped the last 2 seasons and is looking for what will be his home mountain/ski town next winter.  Another non retired friend may join him and work remotely and ski as much as she can. 

Another friend, close to 70, and his wife are taking their Sprinter camper van out west in March.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 16, 2022)

jimk said:


> I'm retired and* ski a lot of partial days, that helps a lot. * I'd rather ski good/interesting terrain slowly, than crappy terrain fast.  I'm not into vertical just for the sake of vertical.



If I lived in a ski town this would be my strategy, regardless of retirement.  I'd much rather ski 3 great hours than 6 hour days to get your money's worth or something.


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## ss20 (Feb 16, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Can I assume they all stayed in shape (skinny) and worked out 3 or 4 times a week?


 
In shape, yes, but nothing excessive (in my mind at least).  If you want to ski at that level at 70, you should start preparing at 40, and not having any bad luck or doing something excessively stupid before that certainly helps.

Too often people think "well if I ski 50 days a season I'm going to need new joints at age 50".  That's just wrong.  There's another factor in there (whether it be genetics or an accident or poor technique....something beyond just skiing hard).


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> One of the main reasons I retired at 57.
> 
> Good for you Jim! I’m not smart enough to have pulled that off!


lol...lucky, not smart.

I stay active and work out 4 times a week year round at this point. I'm in good shape and I keep my weight down and eat sensibly. I've had my skiing injuries and surgeries and am likely a candidate for a knee replacement down the road but not today. Frankly when I ski it's probably the only time my cranky right knee with the transplanted ACL and PCL/healed tibial plateau fracture doesn't bother me.

 I ski as much as I can because I love it. I'm not out there anymore to beat people down the hill or beat myself up trying to keep up with much younger or better skiers. That's not fun for me and as such runs counter to my entire reason to go skiing in the first place...to have fun. Happy to ski anything on the mountain but the laps where I scare myself are usually limited to one run per day. Also, with a family and 3 boys I have too much to lose to do dumb things out on the hill anymore.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 17, 2022)

JimG. said:


> Also, with a family and 3 boys I have too much to lose to do dumb things out on the hill anymore.



Yes, having kids and getting my nuts snipped certainly cut down on my "hold my beer" behaviors


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## AdironRider (Feb 17, 2022)

Anyone who thinks they are a better skier at 40, than they were at 20, must have been a pretty terrible skier at 20" - Warren Miller

Father time is undefeated. After spending 15 years in ski town bliss, I lost count of the number of retirees who thought they were finally going to live their 100 day season dreams, only for the harsh reality of age to slap them right in the face.  Very few bodies hold up to 100 days, even for people in their 20's, let alone 60's or 70's. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

That doesn't mean working out and eating right won't make things better as you age. That is definitely true, but 60+ and you aren't going to be skiing long or hard more than likely compared to when you were in your 40's or younger.


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## Ski2LiveLive2Ski (Feb 17, 2022)

At 56 I am still getting better every year. At 20 I was about as good as my 14 year old daughters were at 12. At 56 I am still better than they are at 14.


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## pinion247 (Feb 17, 2022)

I am a better technical skier at 40+ than I was at 20. It’s required because I can no longer rely on my quads to fix my mistakes and recover from bad decisions.

Thankfully I still tackle the same stuff. Here’s hoping I get to 50.


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## Warp Daddy (Feb 17, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Anyone who thinks they are a better skier at 40, than they were at 20, must have been a pretty terrible skier at 20" - Warren Miller Father time is undefeated. After spending 15 years in ski town bliss, I lost count of the number of retirees who thought they were finally going to live their 100 day season dreams, only for the harsh reality of age to slap them right in the face. Very few bodies hold up to 100 days, even for people in their 20's, let alone 60's or 70's. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. That doesn't mean working out and eating right won't make things better as you age. That is definitely true, but 60+ and you aren't going to be skiing long or hard more than likely compared to when you were in your 40's or younger.





deadheadskier said:


> Yes, having kids and getting my nuts snipped certainly cut down on my "hold my beer" behaviors





deadheadskier said:


> Yes, having kids and getting my nuts snipped certainly cut down on my "hold my beer" behaviors


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 17, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> I lost count of the number of retirees who thought they were finally going to live their 100 day season dreams



Maybe I'm the exception, but a 100 day season doesn't sound like fun to me, it sounds like a work goal.  
If I lived in a ski town I would be more than happy to ski my first day December 1st and my last day April 25th, and get 40 days in between.


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## JimG. (Feb 17, 2022)

My experience with most 100 day a year skiers is that they are the folks who arrive at 7:30, get first chair and are back in the lodge getting ready to leave at 10:00. Or who go inside and relax from 10-2 and then reappear in the afternoon.

Key word there was "most" before the hard cores start flaming.


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## abc (Feb 17, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> Anyone who thinks they are a better skier at 40, than they were at 20, must have been a pretty terrible skier at 20" - Warren Miller


I'm definitely a terrible skier at 20! I only started well after 20.   

So much ski-snobbism in that passage.  But that's not the point. Many people didn't ski in their 20's doesn't mean they weren't having fun doing other things. Or for that matter, trashing their bodies doing those "other fun things". But then, there're many others who didn't trash their bodies in their 20's and 30's because they were just busy living a non-sporty life. 

There's no doubt whatsoever our body declines with age. Heck, that decline probably start long before 60! But skiing doesn't require a huge amount of effort as long as you're not trying to win the Olympic again! Hell, for that matter, even something as "hard" as biking 100 mile isn't as daunting as what it appears. When I was in my 40's, I rode with a bunch of retirees. (I was unemployed briefly and decided to really enjoy my pass time of cycling, except everybody else was busy working, only the retirees were available mid-week) Guess what? They rode their age in miles on their birthday! Man! Those 80 and 90 year old's really inspired me!!!

Make no mistake, no one's going to make the US national team in their 60's. But with a combination of genetic luck, healthy lifestyle and being careful not to trash one's body in too many of those "hold my beer" moments, one can still ski at a decent level at 60 easily, 70 quite possibly, and 80... just enjoy skiing! 

Not to forget, medicine have advanced since our father's days. Many of those "you'll never ski again" injuries are now "fixable"!


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## cdskier (Feb 17, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Maybe I'm the exception, but a 100 day season doesn't sound like fun to me, it sounds like a work goal.
> If I lived in a ski town I would be more than happy to ski my first day December 1st and my last day April 25th, and get 40 days in between.



I typically get 40+ days just skiing weekends for the most part. If I lived in ski country and didn't have to work, I'd absolutely be shooting to ski a lot more days. I'm not necessarily saying I would make 100 a goal, but I would certainly enjoy being able to ski at least a couple hours a lot of mid-week days with no crowds around and could easily see getting to 70-75 without too much effort. That sounds like a lot more fun than skiing mainly weekends and dealing with crowds all the time.


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## abc (Feb 17, 2022)

100 day is only 3 and half months! How is that so difficult to fit into a 5-6 months long winter? 

It may be hard in the northeast when we had these mid-winter melts. But in the west, where the season is long and snow reasonably reliable, I don't think it's such a stretch. 



BenedictGomez said:


> Maybe I'm the exception, but a 100 day season doesn't sound like fun to me, it sounds like a work goal.
> If I lived in a ski town I would be more than happy to ski my first day December 1st and my last day April 25th, and get 40 days in between.


Whether one wishes to ski everyday is an individual thing. My Mom plays bridge just about everyday. So that's really 7 days a week! But that doesn't mean she does only that and nothing else. Some days she just plays one hour. Other days she plays 3 hours. And during tournament time, it's more like a full day affair! 

The same with skiing "days". When you're retired, and you enjoy skiing with some regular friends, going out for a couple hours with your friends EVERY SINGLE DAY can easily be the height of your retired daily life.


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## crank (Feb 17, 2022)

I'm a fairweather skier.  Meaning good snow.  Last times I skied for 10 days straight the last 2 I was thinking these are conditions I normally stay home for.  Skiing 100 days a season would never be goal I would aspire to.

If the snow is really good I will ski bell to bess.  If so so I might get out around 10 or sko and be done by 2.  I have nothing to prove.

Where did this ski every day/100days thing come from anyway?

When I was a ski bum and worked on mountain decades ago I skied every day, but maybe just like 4 runs.


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## NYDB (Feb 17, 2022)

crank said:


> I'm a fairweather skier.  Meaning good snow.  Last times I skied for 10 days straight the last 2 I was thinking these are conditions I normally stay home for.  Skiing 100 days a season would never be goal I would aspire to.



I agree and I thought that was most of the appeal of an early retirement or flexible work schedule.  You have the flexibility to ski when the conditions are great and soft.  

What's that like 20 days in a typical east coast season?  add in another 10 for groomer days and thats about it.  Maybe another 10 in a good year?  

100 days seems like a recipe for a bum joint when you are 50+.  

I think many of the issues for people happen when they are skiing hard in hard conditions.   Icy bumps and boilerplate.  That's like playing tennis or bball when you are old.  Tempting fate.  Old joints and Hardcourts and alot of starting and stopping.   not a friendly mix.  It seems like I have a few friends a year who fuck themselves up from that.


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## Smellytele (Feb 17, 2022)

NY DirtBag said:


> I agree and I thought that was most of the appeal of an early retirement or flexible work schedule.  You have the flexibility to ski when the conditions are great and soft.
> 
> What's that like 20 days in a typical east coast season?  add in another 10 for groomer days and thats about it.  Maybe another 10 in a good year?
> 
> ...


So people out west can ski until they are older?


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## NYDB (Feb 18, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> So people out west can ski until they are older?


I think it helps for sure.  soft snow and sunshine beats ice and freezing temps.  Ymmv.


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## AdironRider (Feb 18, 2022)

The point isn't the exact number of days. The point is when you are older, you don't get to ski everyday that you would like to because shit happens to your body that you can't control so to speak (aka age related problems). You can say you are a fair weather skier, but most old guys only get to ski on the days their body says its fair, and not mother nature.

I've seen it over and over again. Eat right, work out, you'll probably do better than most, but reality is what it is. I'm not even 40 and I don't feel as good as I did in my 20's. You all know this. And unless you didn't learn to ski until you were 30, you are definitely not as good as you were when you were 20. No one is athletically. 

I don't think Warren Miller was being snobbish, he was speaking truth as an older guy. Get those runs in now, because you might not be able to later. It's a decent mantra for any athletic oriented pursuit.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> The point isn't the exact number of days. The point is when you are older, you don't get to ski everyday that you would like to because shit happens to your body that you can't control so to speak (aka age related problems). You can say you are a fair weather skier, but most old guys only get to ski on the days their body says its fair, and not mother nature.
> 
> I've seen it over and over again. Eat right, work out, you'll probably do better than most, but reality is what it is. I'm not even 40 and I don't feel as good as I did in my 20's. You all know this. And unless you didn't learn to ski until you were 30, you are definitely not as good as you were when you were 20. No one is athletically.
> 
> I don't think Warren Miller was being snobbish, he was speaking truth as an older guy. Get those runs in now, because you might not be able to later. It's a decent mantra for any athletic oriented pursuit.



All very true.  I have a couple of examples myself.  Mid 30s I overshot the landing in the park.  I blew the fat pad in my heal out the side of my foot.  Weirdest injury ever that might not have happened when I was younger (and lighter). I missed six weeks of the season.   Around 40 my shoulder started having issues that I believe was from when I dislocated it in my teens.  Had to skip a month and do PT to be able to even plant a pole without zinging pain.

The one thing I disagree with regarding improvement is there can be certain disciplines that you can improve at if you focus on them later in life.  I'll never be the bump or tree skier I was in my 20s.  I'm just not as athletic.  So, it's about maintaining those skills as much as I can.  But, I also started racing this year and I got a little bit better throughout the season and I feel I can improve a lot more.  It's reinvigorated me in a way.  First time in 20 years I've had the mentality that there's something I can improve at with skiing again.  Pretty fun.


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## abc (Feb 18, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> you are definitely not as good as you were when you were 20. No one is athletically


There're more than athletic that you're better at in your 20's than you're in your 40's!

Your memory is better at 20's than in your 40's. You learn new stuff faster in your 20's. Heck, your sperms are more lively in your 20's! You get the idea...

So, you want to get those runs in? Sure. How about getting your degree? Start your family?  

The hard truth is, there're only so many hours in each day in your 20's, your 30's, your 40's... Each of those hours and days are more efficient than the same hours and days later in your life when you're 60 and 70. If you're not yet 40, take care in allocating those days and hours to what you care the most, because it'll take twice as long for you to accomplish the same when you're 50 or 60. But if you're already over 40 (as some here are), you already know that and accepted the result of the compromises you made in your 20's and 30's. And you know you'll have to make many such compromises all the time going forward... 

If skiing is the MOST important thing in your life? Get those runs in NOW. You're at your best whatever your age! It'll only get harder later. That is, at the expense of other things that you feel is LESS important for you (which will ALSO become harder as you get older!). 

And if you have the audacity to decide those "other things" are more important than skiing? It's your life. You get to choose how to live it. Just because someone on the internet feels that's what they value most doesn't means it's the same for you. 

(A few years back, I looked at my saving and decided I can afford to retire, and was just waiting for the right moment to pull the trigger. But chance had it I got involved in a project that's so intellectually invigorating that it changed my perspective entirely. Now, retirement is again a distant horizon. I'd rather be "working"!

And to make matters worse, I took up skate skiing, which excites me even more than skiing trees and bumps. So now my downhill days are only half of what it was 2-3 years back. But I'm loving those days, because that's what I enjoy the most. Rather than just more days on the slope, which while enjoyable, is less than times on my skate skis, or even in front of my computer! 

I know, blasphemy  )


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> I'm not even 40 and I don't feel as good as I did in my 20's. You all know this.



Do we?  What specifically are you referring to?

  I'm in my 40s now, and the only real difference I perceive is that in my 20s I could mogul/tree ski all day, but now if I start mogul/tree skiing 100% at 9am, my legs are probably done by 1:30pm & it's groomers till' 4pm.  But I'm not even sure what percentage to attribute that to age versus what percentage is simply I was in better shape in my late 20s or early 30s.


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## jimk (Feb 18, 2022)

BenedictGomez said:


> Maybe I'm the exception, but a 100 day season doesn't sound like fun to me, it sounds like a work goal.
> If I lived in a ski town I would be more than happy to ski my first day December 1st and my last day April 25th, and get 40 days in between.


Yeah I kind of agree, although maybe if I owned a slopeside house as part of my retirement scenario.  Could use a couple hours of skiing as basically my morning walk.  My wife is a retired skier and pretty tolerant of my addiction, but I don't think her tolerance would accommodate a 100 day season   She's too good at keeping me busy with "honey do" lists unrelated to skiing.

There is an older guy on TGR forums that just retired and is shooting for 100 days this winter.  He already hit 50 by mid-Feb.  He appears to based in So VT and mixes a lot of socializing into his skiing, which makes it more diverse than just about pounding vertical.  He's heading west soon.  I've enjoyed lurking on the thread he started documenting his winter:   https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/344068-My-Retirement-Year-An-Ongoing-Skiing-TR


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> The one thing I disagree with regarding improvement is there can be certain disciplines that you can improve at if you focus on them later in life.



Like NFL quarterback.   Or maybe Tom Brady's just a freak.


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## thebigo (Feb 18, 2022)

The greatest improvement in my skiing has resulted from watching my kid's instructors and proper equipment. I had more stamina in my 20s than 40s but I never had proper instruction and simply could not afford fitted boots and a quiver. This is my daughters fifth year in a seasonal program, in the beginning I would follow the group around to assist coaches with lifts/bathroom breaks/snack etc. before long I started watching the drills and replicating in my own skiing.


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## x10003q (Feb 18, 2022)

JimG. said:


> My experience with most 100 day a year skiers is that they are the folks who arrive at 7:30, get first chair and are back in the lodge getting ready to leave at 10:00. Or who go inside and relax from 10-2 and then reappear in the afternoon.
> 
> Key word there was "most" before the hard cores start flaming.


I had a place at Gore for 25 years. A few times per season, I would go up on a Monday night, ski Tues/Wed and drive home Wed night. There were a handful of retirees who where booting up with me at 8am and leaving when I came in for lunch at 1130am. I got to know some of them - they were mostly good for a couple of hours. If the snow was excellent, they would stay longer. They all loved skiing enough to do it almost every weekday, but limited the time per day. They did not feel the need to go bell to bell or even bell to 2pm because they knew they would be back the next day.


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## Domeskier (Feb 18, 2022)

I think the one valid inference that can be drawn from Miller's largely flippant quote is that someone who is better skier in their 40's than in their 20's wasn't a world-cup or Olympic calibre skier in their 20's.  But there's huge difference between being a pretty terrible skier and not being an Olympic-level skier, and the room for improvement within that spectrum is probably not dependent on the difference in fitness levels between 20 year olds and 40 year olds.  

I don't think anyone's denying that if winning trophies, throwing yourself off cliffs or impressing ski bros with your park skillz is important to you, you should probably focus on skiing when you're younger and forget about carving up the groomers for half an hour each morning to appear in the 100-day club group photo on K-Zone when you're 64.


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## 2Planker (Feb 18, 2022)

Used to be 50-60 days/year
Half working as a patroller.
Half definitely not working. skiing w/ wife & friends.

This year will be 20-25 days on the Conway Chamber Pass. 
100% Ski Bum, Not working.
First pass I've had to pay for since 1990


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## abc (Feb 18, 2022)

BTW, the concept of "ski day" is long past its usefulness IMO. 

It made sense when we were paying for lift tickets per day, and amortized season tickets over the number of "days" we used it. With the majority of people skiing on cheap season passes, the number of "day" is irrelevant. Those "days" of 2 hours is not comparable to "days" of bell-to-bell! What about those "days" when you took a run and decided the condition is so terrible they'd rather quit, but end up sitting at the bar shooting BS till the lift closes? 

I don't know many other sports use this "day" concept. Definitely not in cycling. There, people talk about mileage. I don't think in running. Not even in cross country skiing, a pretty close relative to downhill skiing. Tennis? Hah. They talk about hours or number of games, not "days"! Maybe golf?


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## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2022)

abc said:


> BTW, the concept of "ski day" is long past its usefulness IMO.
> 
> It made sense when we were paying for lift tickets per day, and amortized season tickets over the number of "days" we used it. With the majority of people skiing on cheap season passes, the number of "day" is irrelevant. Those "days" of 2 hours is not comparable to "days" of bell-to-bell! What about those "days" when you took a run and decided the condition is so terrible they'd rather quit, but end up sitting at the bar shooting BS till the lift closes?
> 
> I don't know many other sports use this "day" concept. Definitely not in cycling. There, people talk about mileage. I don't think in running. Not even in cross country skiing, a pretty close relative to downhill skiing. Tennis? Hah. They talk about hours or number of games, not "days"! Maybe golf?


You keep track of hours in tennis for a whole season?
Mileage is harder to track in skiing then biking, running and xcountry.
Tracking hours over a season for skiing really isn’t a thing is it?

Thought I’d try the ABC way and ask questions.


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## cdskier (Feb 18, 2022)

I've honestly rarely skied "bell to bell" at any point (even when I was paying for day tickets in the past). There are a handful of days that I've done it...but those days are generally days I'm skiing with a group of friends combined with days that have really good conditions. So my definition of a "day" skiing is simply a day that I skied at all. It doesn't matter to me how long I skied for it to count.


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## snoseek (Feb 18, 2022)

I'm approaching 50, have done some shitty stuff to my body and still ski 4 or 5 days a week. Maybe less stupid stuff and maybe more groomers but nothing hurts at the moment. 

There were alot of years I hit 100 and I feel that that probably made my tolerance to everyday wear and tear better as I age. So yeah going from a 9-5 your whole life and expecting to pound out a 6 day a week season on your first year of retirement is probably not gonna work. I suggest resistance training maybe and ski bell to bell those working years to develop


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## ThatGuy (Feb 18, 2022)

If you went out and had fun thats a good day skiing. Don’t need to get the excel charts out to define your season.


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## cdskier (Feb 18, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> If you went out and had fun thats a good day skiing. Don’t need to get the excel charts out to define your season.



Hah...I actually do track my days, miles, vertical in an excel spreadsheet. But it is just for my own information and I'm not trying to use it to compare against anyone other than myself.


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## ThatGuy (Feb 18, 2022)

cdskier said:


> Hah...I actually do track my days, miles, vertical in an excel spreadsheet. But it is just for my own information and I'm not trying to use it to compare against anyone other than myself.


I track everything on my Slopes app as well. Just meant that your ski stats shouldn't be what defines your season fun-wise and feeling like you have to meet a certain amount of days/vert detracts from enjoyment.


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## abc (Feb 18, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> Tracking hours over a season for skiing really isn’t a thing is it?


It isn't a thing YET!

For all the hate of Vail, EpicMix can track your lift rides, which pretty much equates the number of runs. That's a much better reflection of the amount of SKIING than "days". 

Cyclists not only can track their miles. They can also track the amount of climbing they do. Those two really reflects the amount of effort (and achievement) in that discipline. 

You can certainly track the mileage of your ski "day" with a Garmin, for example. Or use the many apps that tracks all other kind of parameter: vertical, hour, mileage, you name it! The only reason people don't do that is largely inertia. Using a completely outdated and increasingly meaningless tracker is pretty pointless.


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## abc (Feb 18, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> If you went out and had fun thats a good day skiing. Don’t need to get the excel charts out to define your season.


During those years when I skied a lot of "days", I didn't bother keeping track of my "days". But I do keep track of the powder days!!!


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## pinion247 (Feb 18, 2022)

Plenty of phone apps have monitoring of this type availalbe. I've used Ski Tracks since 2012, and can break down my speed, ski distance, vert, runs, view GPS data, etc. It's great info to have but not worth obsessing over metrics. I did 84,000 vert and BIG distance on skis before MLK weekend... at Wildcat... on Polecat...


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## deadheadskier (Feb 18, 2022)

pinion247 said:


> Plenty of phone apps have monitoring of this type availalbe. I've used Ski Tracks since 2012, and can break down my speed, ski distance, vert, runs, view GPS data, etc. It's great info to have but not worth obsessing over metrics. I did 84,000 vert and BIG distance on skis before MLK weekend... at Wildcat... on Polecat...



40 runs down Polecat in a day?!?!


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## pinion247 (Feb 18, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> 40 runs down Polecat in a day?!?!


No, a combo of every day leading up to MLK because that's all that was open  My point being that distance, vert, runs, etc differ wildly in their "value", so should not be taken too seriously as a metric.

** edit ** there was some Bobcat thrown in there after Xmas. And one rope duck on Upper Wildcat that required some emergency repairs in C-lot afterwards.


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## Smellytele (Feb 18, 2022)

Days actually track your commitment in getting to the mountain and skiing and not committing to other activities like house maintenance and dog walking...


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## crank (Feb 18, 2022)

What I discovered about using Ski Tracks is that it's fun to look at it around summer's end and reminisce about a great day of skiing.  See your ups and downs so to speak. Remember that zoomer where you hit 60+.  How much vert you skied on an epic day.  Or... how many days you skied per season


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 18, 2022)

abc said:


> Maybe golf?


Rounds.


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## 2Planker (Feb 18, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> 40 runs down Polecat in a day?!?!


They used to have the 100K Challenge. 
 That is, all in 1 day 
Was usually early March


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## kbroderick (Feb 18, 2022)

ThatGuy said:


> I track everything on my Slopes app as well. Just meant that your ski stats shouldn't be what defines your season fun-wise and feeling like you have to meet a certain amount of days/vert detracts from enjoyment.


In my experience, setting day goals and counting tends to increase, not detract from, my enjoyment—because as someone else noted, what it truly measures is your commitment to getting out of the house and onto the hill. The years that I've set day-count goals and made a real effort to get out more have resulted in a lot of days where the skiing was better (often substantially better) than I expected, and I was glad for the extra nudge to get out.

The year that I set a goal of 100 days by Easter (which was when lifts stopped turning at my home mountain), I ended up skiing a bunch in a row (I think 76 days) and got to 142 on the season. Yes, a lot of those were low-run-count days, but there were a lot of days that the streak-counting got me out the door and that was what I needed to get some decent skiing in.

I recall exactly *one* day that year where I was unhappy about getting out (even after I got outside); it was windy, about 35 degrees, and pouring rain.


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## abc (Feb 18, 2022)

kbroderick said:


> and pouring rain.


I actually dig skiing in the rain!

But, on a day like today (or tomorrow), when it's almost a skating ring, or dust on crust... those are PERFECT days for skate skiing! So, why waste it on the mountain???

Same goes to Thanksgiving... calm, windless days with plenty of sunshine. Chilly alright but again PERFECT in a kayak! I couldn't care less if Vail blow snow on the Hunter or not. 

So, it's not about the iffy days on the mountain. It's about wasting fantastic days to enjoy doing something else you like, just to say you've skied! Well, unless you don't enjoy anything else. In that case, I understand.


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## thetrailboss (Feb 19, 2022)

If this hasn’t been posted…









						Why the economic situation in ski towns should scare the whole country
					

Ski town economics are a harbinger for America’s struggling middle class




					www.deseret.com


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## thetrailboss (Feb 19, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> Yes, having kids and getting my nuts snipped certainly cut down on my "hold my beer" behaviors


Part of that is TMI…..


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## abc (Feb 19, 2022)

AdironRider said:


> The point is when you are older, you don't get to ski everyday that you would like to because shit happens to your body that you can't control so to speak (aka age related problems). You can say you are a fair weather skier, but most old guys only get to ski on the days their body says its fair, and not mother nature.


There's a lot of truth in that.

But that's also more of a perspective from not having the freedom to ski most days, so the "skiable days" feels precious. It's the days one is not working, not running around catching up on chores. Skiing is only possible when those other obligation allows.

For retirees, those other obligations can be shifted around skiing. So yes, there're days when mother nature allows but the body doesn't. Or vice versa. But then, when both allows, one doesn't have to worry as much about "work"! OK, until the body puts more restriction than working does, that is.

The main advantage of retiring is being able to live in proximity of snow. Hence makes it possible to ski a couple hours when both snow condition and body condition are at their best.


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## Teleskier (Feb 19, 2022)

raisingarizona said:


> Beautiful pics Jimk. I’m impressed with older telemark skiers. I feel pain in my knees just watching them! It’s like doing a squat thrust for every turn, that’s tough.


Others may disagree, but I've always felt tele keeps you humble, respectful of the terrain, balanced, and young. No surprise about the MRG mention in this regard, it being the local tele mecca.


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## skef (Mar 6, 2022)

(Bump)

How about Burlington, VT as a base of operations? Just under an hour to Smuggs and Stowe, 1.5 hours to Jay… With a non-skiing, urban-oriented wife, I am giving this some serious consideration.


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## NYDB (Mar 6, 2022)

Burlington is a nice spot for sure for someone with non skiing spouse. 

I’d like to be a bit closer to a mountain for storm/powder days though.


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## Edd (Mar 6, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Burlington is a nice spot for sure for someone with non skiing spouse.
> 
> I’d like to be a bit closer to a mountain for storm/powder days though.


Per Google Maps, 32 minutes to Bolton, which is one of my new favorites. Under an hour to Smuggs and Stowe. If $ wasn’t a factor, Burlington would be amazing.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 6, 2022)

after this recent jaunt to the spokane-coeur d'alene area and skiing at 49N, schweitzer, and silver, its hard for me to not throw spokane into this conversation. under 1 hour from mt spokane, under 90 min to 49N and silver, under 2 hours from schweitzer, many more options if you have a 4-5 hour drive radius. 100th largest city in the us with a booming labor market, which sprawls over the idaho border to CDA, so plenty of space to grow and build. being in washington equals legal cannabis and pretty stable and permanent blue state, with much more political diversity in the spokane region vs seattle. international airport.

unfortunately, as with everywhere, the word is out already. this article basically says nyc/la people displace austin/denver people, who displace spokane people.









						The Next Affordable City Is Already Too Expensive
					

In Spokane, Wash., home prices jumped 60 percent in the past two years. The increase is fueled by buyers fleeing the boom in cities like Austin. Who will have to flee next?




					www.nytimes.com


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## Teleskier (Mar 6, 2022)

skef said:


> How about Burlington, VT


Could look into Brattleboro. Closer skiing too.


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## Smellytele (Mar 6, 2022)

Teleskier said:


> Could look into Brattleboro. Closer skiing too.


closer but shittier skiing


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## NYDB (Mar 6, 2022)

Smellytele said:


> closer but shittier skiing


Plus 1/2 the snowfall, warmer,  and closer to population centers.

I don't think any mountain is closer to Brattleboro than BV is to Burlington anyway. 

My point was if you are living someplace primarily for the skiing, I think 10 miles or so is my comfort limit so that powder and storm days don't become a slog. 

You are looking at a 3 hour round trip on a storm / powder day to stowe or smuggs from Burlington.  Do able but not something I would be looking forward to doing that often in retirement.


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## NYDB (Mar 6, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> after this recent jaunt to the spokane-coeur d'alene area and skiing at 49N, schweitzer, and silver, its hard for me to not throw spokane into this conversation. under 1 hour from mt spokane, under 90 min to 49N and silver, under 2 hours from schweitzer, many more options if you have a 4-5 hour drive radius. 100th largest city in the us with a booming labor market, which sprawls over the idaho border to CDA, so plenty of space to grow and build. being in washington equals legal cannabis and pretty stable and permanent blue state, with much more political diversity in the spokane region vs seattle. international airport.
> 
> unfortunately, as with everywhere, the word is out already. this article basically says nyc/la people displace austin/denver people, who displace spokane people.
> 
> ...


How is sandpoint?  did you spend much time in that area?


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## JimG. (Mar 6, 2022)

I'll wait to see where the NYC/LA and other city people wind up in the next 2-3 years...

then buy a place anywhere they don't go.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 6, 2022)

Grand Junction, Colorado. 

Beaver, Utah.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 6, 2022)

NYDB said:


> Plus 1/2 the snowfall, warmer,  and closer to population centers.
> 
> I don't think any mountain is closer to Brattleboro than BV is to Burlington anyway.
> 
> ...


I don’t look forward to powder days here anymore. Things were already getting fucky in 2019 with the powder chasers, fat skis and hype train. Covid was the final nail in the coffin, powder days are no longer attractive.

All I want now is a midweek “packed powder day” with warm temps and sunshine.

Here today after 26 inches since Friday. That’s the singles line running back up the ski trail.


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## KustyTheKlown (Mar 6, 2022)

NYDB said:


> How is sandpoint?  did you spend much time in that area?



i had a hotel in sandpoint for 5 nights and it was my base for most days at schweitzer. i also stayed in coeur d'alene, spokane, and wenatchee (which is not close to spokane and is near mission ridge)

sandpoint is a fine enough little town and great place to visit but too small and sleepy for me to ever consider living. it has a tiny downtown with a few restaurants, breweries, and touristy shops, then a little 'industrial area' with a brewery and coffee roaster, a residential area, and a big box commercial area with supermarket walmart etc. it doesn't really feel like a 'ski town' and i have a feeling it comes more alive in the summer and that the lake gets huge recreational tourism. 

coeur d'alene is more of like a real place that you could live. you can commute to spokane in about 30 min. it has a cute downtown that is kind of bustling and has commercial activity on more than just one street. beautiful lakefront. quick access to schweitzer in one direction and silver and lookout pass the other direction.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 6, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i had a hotel in sandpoint for 5 nights and it was my base for most days at schweitzer. i also stayed in coeur d'alene, spokane, and wenatchee (which is not close to spokane and is near mission ridge)
> 
> sandpoint is a fine enough little town and great place to visit but too small and sleepy for me to ever consider living. it has a tiny downtown with a few restaurants, breweries, and touristy shops, then a little 'industrial area' with a brewery and coffee roaster, a residential area, and a big box commercial area with supermarket walmart etc. it doesn't really feel like a 'ski town' and i have a feeling it comes more alive in the summer and that the lake gets huge recreational tourism.
> 
> coeur d'alene is more of like a real place that you could live. you can commute to spokane in about 30 min. it has a cute downtown that is kind of bustling and has commercial activity on more than just one street. beautiful lakefront. quick access to schweitzer in one direction and silver and lookout pass the other direction.



The lakes in that area are really what has me thinking that area is better than Denver or SLC for year round living.  The relatively low elevation makes those lakes warm enough for boating and swimming compared to say Tahoe if you are into those activities.  As beautiful as Tahoe is, I'm not into freezing my balls off in frigid water. 

We'll likely never end up leaving New England as we have such strong ties to the area and there's much I love about this location.  But, if we decided we wanted a change, Spokane / CDA would be at the top of my list for western destinations.


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## raisingarizona (Mar 6, 2022)

deadheadskier said:


> The lakes in that area are really what has me thinking that area is better than Denver or SLC for year round living.  The relatively low elevation makes those lakes warm enough for boating and swimming compared to say Tahoe if you are into those activities.  As beautiful as Tahoe is, I'm not into freezing my balls off in frigid water.
> 
> We'll likely never end up leaving New England as we have such strong ties to the area and there's much I love about this location.  But, if we decided we wanted a change, Spokane / CDA would be at the top of my list for western destinations.


Tahoe is fucked on the weekends and holidays. Capital F U C K E D, fucked.


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## kbroderick (Mar 6, 2022)

Edd said:


> Per Google Maps, 32 minutes to Bolton, which is one of my new favorites. Under an hour to Smuggs and Stowe. If $ wasn’t a factor, Burlington would be amazing.


32 minutes to BV from downtown, maybe; I lived in the New North End and commuted to work at BV for a couple of years, and 32 minutes would've been a record door-to-door time, even in perfect weather.

Under an hour to Stowe this year probably only applies before 5 a.m. or if you're starting from the cross-country center. Epic success in drawing people there this year.


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## SenorQuesadilla (Mar 7, 2022)

Sandpoint not being a ski town while being a ski town is a big plus in my opinion. Spent a good amount of time in Spokane the last few weeks before entering+after leaving Canada, was surprised at how much I liked it. Rossland being 2 hours and Fernie being a bit over 3 is a big plus too.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 8, 2022)

skef said:


> With a non-skiing, urban-oriented wife, I am giving this some serious consideration.



There's really nothing urban about Burlington.  Not a terrible spot for skiing though, but I'd prefer to live closer if that was the main gist of my move.


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## BenedictGomez (Mar 8, 2022)

KustyTheKlown said:


> this article basically says* nyc/la people displace austin/denver people, who displace spokane people.*


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