# Sunapee 2012-01-22 ... the good, the okay, and the dick move



## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

Alright so this was my first time at Sunapee I went there to meet a friend who lives right near there and he snowboards and he wanted to show me the mountain.

The good: Wow my friend can snowboard! Like, no joke 85mph bombing down the mountain with excellent control. I was impressed and it took a little extra nerve to keep up with him.

Most fun I have ever had skiing side by side with a snowboarder.

The okay: What they called "machine groomed packed powder" is what most people in the lodge were calling "ice".. but what I would more accurately called hard-pack variable conditions. I was wishing I had fresher edges on my skis, for sure. Not a good day for easy carving or flicking around in the snow, but as long as I kept my balance forward and made long Super G turns at speed it was good.

The dick move: Last run of the day we went down towards the sunbowl... the lift was not closed yet but we were NOT ALLOWED to get on it because supposedly two people that looked like my friend and I were spotted poaching some trail. It wasn't us. We didn't ski under any ropes. This guy was on a walkie talkie with "his boss" and had no proof and wasn't even trying to hear our story which was that it truly wasn't us.

He basically said, "There's the road, parking lot is through the woods and that way"

So my overall impression of Mt Sunapee is that it's a medium size mountain with not much steeps but a nice view of the lake. Tickets are overpriced considering the amount of terrain... I think I paid $70 which is a bit much for a mountain of that size. I was not really impressed with the terrain overall except it was fun bombing down the mountain.

I also think they need to have a more mature attitude about skiiers or riders who may or may not have accidentally gone into the woods or skiied a closed trail... and not act like you should lose your ticket or not be able to take a lift up.

In any case, we were innocent in that situtation so that made it even worse.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 23, 2012)

Bummer about the hassle from the staff.


and 85MPH?  :lol:


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

deadhead..

Now that I think about it 85mph might be a bit high estimate.. 

But in a full tuck most way down the mountain with only a few turns.. on 185cm skis.. realistically I'm sure we got to 75mph at a few points

I normally don't ski so fast just bombing down the whole mountain like that but my friend is pretty much a maniac.. he was faster than me at speeds I consider actually sort of reckless


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## o3jeff (Jan 23, 2012)

Don't Olympic downhill skiers go about 80 mph? And you guys were up to 75? Wow


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## deadheadskier (Jan 23, 2012)

75? :lol:


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## o3jeff (Jan 23, 2012)

75 km?


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## deadheadskier (Jan 23, 2012)

Perhaps

I thought it was a known fact that the only skier who hits 75mph and posts on a skiing forum is Highwaystar


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

I think you guys are underestimating speeds racers go.

80mph is common for many downhill racers... I believe the record in a downhill race is something in the mid 90s mph.

And the fastest clocked skiier that was not in a real race but just seeing how fast he could go was up near 130mph.

It's not hard for advanced skiiers to go 60mph+ 

My original estimate of 85mph was too high. But I am sticking with around 75mph. Could have been 70... I didn't have a radar gun on me. But I have a pretty good idea of speeds I am going. Of course not the whole time but peak speed on at least a couple of the fastest runs we did.

Like I said the mountain was completely groomed over it was easy to tuck it all the way down with just a few small turns. On most mountains or conditions it would not have been possible to go that fast. Normally skiing this fast would be out of my comfort zone.


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## o3jeff (Jan 23, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> The good: Wow my friend can snowboard! Like, no joke 85mph



You said on a snowboard, thats freaking fast


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

Ok I looked it up.... top clocked speed in a downhill race competition is 96.6mph

That skiier did not win the race 

Freaking fast is right. My friend is the most badass and fearless snowboarder I've ever seen.

He's also insane because he does not wear a helmet. I insisted multiple times that day that I would actually buy him one because I feared for his life on every run !


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## buellski (Jan 23, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Alright so this was my first time at Sunapee I went there to meet a friend who lives right near there and he snowboards and he wanted to show me the mountain.
> 
> The good: Wow my friend can snowboard! Like, no joke 85mph bombing down the mountain with excellent control. I was impressed and it took a little extra nerve to keep up with him.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about your run-in with the staff and your experience.  In my opinion, Sunapee does as good a job as any "big" mountain as far as conditions go.  Yesterday was arguably the best day of the season conditions wise, but it did get a bit scratchy by the end of the day.  Like you said, good edges make a big difference.  Sunapee will never win any awards for challenging terrain, but it definitely has some fun trails.  If you go back, make sure you hit the bumps on Flying Goose, and if there's snow, there are some fun glades as well.  You'll also find bumps on Lift Line, Chipmunk, and Cataract when there's enough snow.

As far as lift ticket prices go, I think you're going to be spending the same thing at most areas of the same size on a weekend.  Full price at Sunapee is $72, Gunstock is $72, and Ragged is $71.  Those are all pretty similar mountains.


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## WWF-VT (Jan 23, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> I think you guys are underestimating speeds racers go.
> 
> 80mph is common for many downhill racers... I believe the record in a downhill race is something in the mid 90s mph.
> 
> ...



No way that you hit 75 MPH - nothing at Sunapee is steep enough or long enouigh to safely hit that speed


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## soulseller (Jan 23, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> I thought it was a known fact that the only skier who hits 75mph and posts on a skiing forum is Highwaystar



I think a new AZ legend is being born this season...


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## Angus (Jan 23, 2012)

Your impressions of the mountain are correct. It is a nice intermediate, family mountain. Skiing that fast - and I believe you topped out at 75 - at Sunapee with their clientele and traffic is dangerous...slow down! ;-)


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## KevinF (Jan 23, 2012)

Exactly what skis (model, length, etc.) were you on for hitting 75mph+?

I haven't been to Sunapee in a long time, but there are two or three trails where, if you had the balls to not turn, you could probably get pretty close to 70-something mph.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

Angus said:


> Your impressions of the mountain are correct. It is a nice intermediate, family mountain. Skiing that fast - and I believe you topped out at 75 - at Sunapee with their clientele and traffic is dangerous...slow down! ;-)



I agree it would have been dangerous in high traffic and honestly really reckless.

But since the Pats game had pretty much cleared everyone off the slopes we could make it the whole way down encountering probably no more than half a dozen easy to avoid people on the whole way down.

In the future I will slow down.. it's not all the time I have to keep up with a maniac snowboarder!

I haven't actually been on a race team in over 11 years but I have to admit it's nice to get that feelin that "you still got it"


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

buellski said:


> Sorry to hear about your run-in with the staff and your experience.  In my opinion, Sunapee does as good a job as any "big" mountain as far as conditions go.  Yesterday was arguably the best day of the season conditions wise, but it did get a bit scratchy by the end of the day.  Like you said, good edges make a big difference.  Sunapee will never win any awards for challenging terrain, but it definitely has some fun trails.  If you go back, make sure you hit the bumps on Flying Goose, and if there's snow, there are some fun glades as well.  You'll also find bumps on Lift Line, Chipmunk, and Cataract when there's enough snow.
> 
> As far as lift ticket prices go, I think you're going to be spending the same thing at most areas of the same size on a weekend.  Full price at Sunapee is $72, Gunstock is $72, and Ragged is $71.  Those are all pretty similar mountains.



I'm sure I will go back some time because I have a lot of friends who live in Sunapee or towns right around there who like to ride or ski (mostly ride) so it's convenient for them if I go up there. 

Look forward to exploring it when the glades are open and there is some softer snow later in the season.

Ragged... I have only been to once when I was a kid I hardly remember it... you think that's more fun than Sunapee? I seem to remember it having more narrow trails and slightly steeper stuff. Never been to Gunstock.

I have no skiied in NH nearly as much as VT due to convenience and also Vermont seems to get better snow most of the time

I was surprised to find that conditions in Western Mass ski areas are actually better than at Sunapee... I figured going north would be better but I guess NH hasn't been lucky with the snow so far this year


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## conwayeast (Jan 23, 2012)

Couple things for you to do...

#1. Call Jay Gamble, he is the President. When they ask what this is in regards to tell them customer service, they will usually put you through to him. Tell him you want him to know what happened and how you feel. DO NOT BE RUDE. Tell him it was your first time there, and you may never go back now because of how you felt like you were treated when you did nothing wrong.

#2 Sign up for an All-Star rewards card. http://www.golfskiwarehouse.com/rewards_info.aspx Its free to sign up and you get discounts at the mountain. 
{Mount Sunapee Resort: 40% off a mid-week, non-holiday period one-day lift ticket or $10.00 off a weekend or holiday period one-day lift ticket}


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## neil (Jan 23, 2012)

deadheadskier said:


> Perhaps
> 
> I thought it was a known fact that the only skier who hits 75mph and posts on a skiing forum is Highwaystar



Funny because I was just thinking that this guy is the new Highwaystar.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

KevinF said:


> Exactly what skis (model, length, etc.) were you on for hitting 75mph+?
> 
> I haven't been to Sunapee in a long time, but there are two or three trails where, if you had the balls to not turn, you could probably get pretty close to 70-something mph.



Rossignol Phantom SC80 185cm is what I ski on

Yeah there are several runs at Sunapee where you can take a pretty much straight shot down the mountain with a couple long arced turns that wouldn't even slow you down.

Also like I said the mountain was really slick like hard pack granular so it was easy to go fast yesterday.

Definitely got some lift-off at speed over a couple of the humps on the mountain.. I was suprised I've never actually pushed these skis to such speed limits before and also gotten air doing so.. I found them to be remarkably stable.

These Rossi Phantoms have honestly blown my mind ever since I got them... amazing skis in any kind of condition except deep wet powder


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## thetrailboss (Jan 23, 2012)

Sorry that was your experience.  They run a tight ship.  And I also am :blink: regarding the 85 mph statement.


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## Cannonball (Jan 23, 2012)

conwayeast said:


> Couple things for you to do...
> 
> #1. Call Jay Gamble, he is the President. When they ask what this is in regards to tell them customer service, they will usually put you through to him. Tell him you want him to know what happened and how you feel. DO NOT BE RUDE. Tell him it was your first time there, and you may never go back now because of how you felt like you were treated when you did nothing wrong.



Yes, don't be rude.  And also probably don't mention that you were going 85MPH on a trail with other paying customers.  Sunapee might consider THAT the 'dick move' in this little story.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm really not too burnt about it. I understand ski areas have rules and sometimes they make mistakes when it comes to who they are trying to make an example of.

My friend and I had a nice conversation walking that half mile down to the parking lot and it's all good.

I didn't mean for that to be the primary point of my trip report. Shit happens, sometimes people are assholes because they think they have to be, whether right or wrong.

But, on another note... I feel I should be able to ski as fast I want to (if I am in control) on any mountain. I wasn't going 85mph. Maybe 75mph tops. Still really damn fast, yeah, no doubt.

But the trails were mostly clear, I had a clear view of the way down, and I am confident in my skills enough at that speed to be able to stop in any conditions in a reaonsable amount of time if necessary.

Mount Sunapee is one of those mountains you can pretty much see the bottom from the top, with a couple humps in between. It's not like you're going to come up upon a group of children or a sudden hairpin curve without knowing well in advance and being able to slow waaaay down.

Like I said normally I don't ski for speed, I ski for style. But my friend is a maniac snowboarder and he lives for speed and I'm pretty happy I was able to keep up with up 

There's no beef between me and Sunapee. Probably in twenty years I will be Ski Patrol.... so I understand their concerns. Until then .....


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## Nick (Jan 23, 2012)

o3jeff said:


> You said on a snowboard, thats freaking fast



at the az summit last year, vdk03 on a board, skistef and myself hit 58 down one of the runs during first tracks...... that was cooking, measured with Google my tracks. I hit 52 at Cannon last Sunday.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 23, 2012)

was that average mph or peak speed?

I wish I had some gizmo to accurately measure.. but I have a pretty good idea within at least plus or minus 5-10mph at high speed because I used to get clocked racing... and I'm pretty sure I'm a lot faster now if I wanted to be than I was in my teens in the race league ... for one thing my skis are like 30% longer and I'm about 40% heavier :lol:


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## drjeff (Jan 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> was that average mph or peak speed?
> 
> I wish I had some gizmo to accurately measure.. but I have a pretty good idea within at least plus or minus 5-10mph at high speed because I used to get clocked racing... and I'm pretty sure I'm a lot faster now if I wanted to be than I was in my teens in the race league ... for one thing my skis are like 30% longer and I'm about 40% heavier :lol:



FYI, on the mens world cup downhill circuit,  the Hahnenkamm downhill in Kitzbuhl, Austria is one of the fastest courses on the world cup.  And the racers on PERFECTLY tuned skis, wearing some of the fastest, most aerodynamic suits in the world average about 65 mph with a maxiumum speed of about 90mph. Just saying....


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## WWF-VT (Jan 24, 2012)

Nick said:


> at the az summit last year, vdk03 on a board, skistef and myself hit 58 down one of the runs during first tracks...... that was cooking, measured with Google my tracks. I hit 52 at Cannon last Sunday.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk



Google My Tracks is known to not be very accurate.  Unless you guys are on a timed course or being measured with an accurate device you are kidding yourselves if you think you are skiing 50-75 MPH.


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## St. Bear (Jan 24, 2012)

drjeff said:


> FYI, on the mens world cup downhill circuit,  the Hahnenkamm downhill in Kitzbuhl, Austria is one of the fastest courses on the world cup.  And the racers on PERFECTLY tuned skis, wearing some of the fastest, most aerodynamic suits in the world average about 65 mph with a maxiumum speed of about 90mph. Just saying....



So what you're saying is that we have one of the top skiers in the world in our midst?


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## St. Bear (Jan 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Mount Sunapee is one of those mountains you can pretty much see the bottom from the top, with a couple humps in between. *It's not like you're going to come up upon a group of children or a sudden hairpin curve without knowing well in advance and being able to slow waaaay down*.



Except for where trails cross and merge.

Which, at Sunapee, happens all the time.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 24, 2012)

Compared to a downhill race course I did not have to worry about going around gates or following a very specific line.

I was just picking the fastest line from top to bottom... so I don't see how it's hard to believe my friend and I could have topped out at 75mph

Unless you have never skiied that fast, I guess it's easy to say "no way you did that"... but in downhill races (where racers have to go around gates and follow a specific line..) they go in the 80s all the time and sometimes in the 90s.

No I'm not one of the world's best skiiers but I'm not too bad at it either .. I guess I can't expect everyone to believe what I say but it's not like I have a motive to come on here and exaggerate or lie. I've been skiing since I was 2 years old and spent years on a race team so it's not like I'm just pulling speed estimates totally out of my ass 

Also I would not trade my Rossignol Phantom SC80 185cm skis for any other ski ever made. Do not underestimate those planks in any conditions (except they suck in tight moguls because the tail is too long)


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 24, 2012)

drjeff said:


> wearing some of the fastest, most aerodynamic suits in the world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 24, 2012)

drjeff said:


> wearing some of the fastest, most aerodynamic suits in the world



That there is the key. I've been radar gunned at 63 mph on Lower Warrens Way at Burke. At that speed the wind resistance is very high and it caused me to max out at that speed. You need a skin tight suit or a very steep trail to overcome the wind resistance to achieve speeds over 65 mph. It also takes a lot of effort to stop at speeds above 60. The step up from 50 to 60 mph seems/sounds more like an increase of 20 to 25 mph (the difference in wind noise is incredible), which is why you "feel" like your going 70+.
I'll give you 65mph at Sunapee but 70+ just isn't physically possible :roll:.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 24, 2012)

:lol: I'd say it's physically possible

To clarify, now that I'm looking at the map, the only run we topped out at 70+ (and I'm saying my friend on the snowboard actually topped out faster than me, so if I went 70, he went 75.. but I'm fairly sure I topped out over 70)

Anyway that run was Upper Blastoff > Lower Blastoff ... It's a straight shot down most of the mountain's vertical, there is only one trail crossing the entire way, and plenty of view ahead of time of that crossing in case you had to slow down or stop.

Look at the map for yourself if you don't know the mountain... if you don't think you can get to 70 or 75mph on that run on a day with no uphill wind, really slick/fast groomed hard pack conditions... well I guess you know your limits!


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## awf170 (Jan 24, 2012)

Add one to the no freakin' way group. I think you could reach 70+ mph straight lining lynx. No way blast off is steep enough or straight enough. Maybe 55mph tops.


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## WWF-VT (Jan 24, 2012)

I have skied Blastoff.  Bode Miller couldn't hit 75 on that trail.


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## awf170 (Jan 24, 2012)

WWF-VT said:


> I have skied Blastoff.  Bode Miller couldn't hit 75 on that trail.


 
Maybe with a jet pack.

And yeah, i agree. Not steep at all, curvey, and full off dips and rises.


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## deadheadskier (Jan 24, 2012)

WWF-VT said:


> I have skied Blastoff.  Bode Miller couldn't hit 75 on that trail.



this.

not even on downhill skis in racing spandex.

mid 50s would be doable with normal gear and clothing


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## St. Bear (Jan 24, 2012)

There's only one way to resolve this.

Yup, I'm talking Ski Off.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 24, 2012)

Oh well I give up you guys are right I was actually snowplowing down the mountain and you can thank me for the scratchy conditions at Sunapee !!

What is an accurate / proveable way to show how fast you are going? GPS?

All I know is I've been clocked in the past in the high 60s and that was when I was much younger on a smaller mountain and I was definitely going *significantly* faster than that the other day at Sunapee.

I have also gone 62mph confirmed downhill on a bicycle and I was definitely going much faster than that skiing the other day.

Fastest I ever skiied. sorry chip!


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## 57stevey (Jan 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> What is an accurate / proveable way to show how fast you are going?



I suggest next time you ask Ski Patrol to time you as you straightline blastoff. Let us know how that goes.


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## hammer (Jan 24, 2012)

awf170 said:


> Add one to the no freakin' way group. I think you could reach 70+ mph straight lining lynx. No way blast off is steep enough or straight enough. Maybe 55mph tops.


In addition, Blastoff has some rolls so you would get some decent air.

How about Wingding?  It isn't a black but it's wide open with a fair amount of pitch.


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## KevinF (Jan 24, 2012)

Blast-off has way too much run-out and way too little pitch to get anywhere close to 70mph.

I was thinking you could do it on Lynx or Wingding -- wide, straight and a relatively consistent pitch.

Speaking from my cycling experience...  35mph on a downhill is easy to achieve, 40mph isn't too hard, 45mph requires something special and 50+ really requires everything to be right (or to lack a self-preservation gene).  (Coming down US302 through Crawford Notch -- 13% grade for 0.5 miles -- got me up to 48mph...  Probably could have broken 50 if I really wanted to, but I didn't).

The point being that air resistance becomes extremely significant as the speedometer creeps upwards.  A very effective brake on a road bike is to simply sit up and let the air resistance slow you down.

Ski slopes are obviously much steeper than roads are, the surface is slicker and tighter tucks are possible since you're already lower to the ground than you are on a bike, so the speed threshold at which it gets hard to go faster is going to be higher.

I have no doubts you could get up to 50-something on BlastOff, but as I said above, the air-resistance is going to kick in at some point and there simply isn't enough pitch on that trail to overcome it to the degree necessary to get up to 70mph.


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 24, 2012)

It was my first time on the mountain.. I *think* it was Blastoff. If theres another trail that is straighter and steeper it could have been that one. I wasn't paying attention to the trail signs.

And yeah I did get some decent air on the rolls of whatever trail it was.. it was impossible not to lift off at that speed !

I have never tested my Rossis at quite that high of a speed before and also getting air all I can say is I am more in love with these skis now than ever... on my old skis I would have died doing this

Also my clocked downhill mountain bike speed was on a Specialized Enduro with Hayes hydraulic brakes (my steed)... I don't have a road bike 

This was done on Petticoat Hill road in Williamsburg Mass and yes I could have easily died luckily there were no cars on the road that day (there are usually very few cars on the road and I had a car in front of me with my buddy in it going down the hill and he confirmed my speed... after which point I slowed down fast)

I would much rather bomb down a road on my air suspended Enduro with good tires than a flimsy road bike!


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 24, 2012)

awf170 said:


> Add one to the no freakin' way group. I think you could reach 70+ mph straight lining lynx. No way blast off is steep enough or straight enough. Maybe 55mph tops.



Now that I'm looking at the map we def straightlined Lynx as well. If you're telling me thats the straightest and steepest one than that's probably the one we maxed out on. I didn't know any of the names of the trails I was skiing cuz it was my first time there and I'm just trying to figure it out now looking at the map.

I assumed it was Blastoff at first because that looks like the longest and straightest and I know we definitely ripped down that but could have been closer to 60 and if Im getting the trails confused probably it was Lynx that we were pushing the 70s

Like I said I was basically tailing the fastest snowboarder I have ever seen and he rides that mountain like multiple times a week so I had no doubts about just following his line and trusting that it was possible to go that fast

If I was skiing there myself I would not have gone so fast.. but still pretty fast


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## awf170 (Jan 24, 2012)

bdfreetuna said:


> Also my clocked downhill mountain bike speed was on a Specialized Enduro  with Hayes hydraulic brakes (my steed)... I don't have a road bike :wink:
> 
> This was done on Petticoat Hill road in Williamsburg Mass and yes I  could have easily died luckily there were no cars on the road that day  (there are usually very few cars on the road and I had a car in front of  me with my buddy in it going down the hill and he confirmed my speed...  after which point I slowed down fast)
> 
> I would much rather bomb down a road on my air suspended Enduro with good tires than a flimsy road bike!





bdfreetuna said:


> I have also gone 62mph confirmed downhill on a bicycle and I was definitely going much faster than that skiing the other day.



Nope, didn't happen.  :argue:


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## from_the_NEK (Jan 25, 2012)

awf170 said:


> Nope, didn't happen.  :argue:



Only possible if he was drafting the car that was clocking his speed. That would have cut the wind resistance. Although, there is the issue of knobby MTB tires


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## bdfreetuna (Jan 25, 2012)

Yeah I was drafting the car.. but not so super close in case he had to brake for whatever reason.. but still fairly close to get a draft... Petticoat Hill is a serious downhill run on a bike!... tires are semi-knobby I don't even know the model...

Petticoat Hill Rd , Williamsburg Mass. Confirmed. :lol:


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## BenedictGomez (Jan 26, 2012)

St. Bear said:


> There's only one way to resolve this.
> 
> Yup, I'm talking Ski Off.



With 130mm power boards on boilerplate ice!


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## LonghornSkier (Jan 26, 2012)

I would think you could get going very fast on Goosebumps as well... The pitch is shorter but slightly steeper.


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## hammer (Jan 26, 2012)

LonghornSkier said:


> I would think you could get going very fast on Goosebumps as well... The pitch is shorter but slightly steeper.


Agree but the steep section isn't all that long...


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