# What in the Sam Hell is going on out West



## kingslug (Oct 23, 2020)

Its not enough Colorado is on fire..now I read that many states out there are having record spikes in Covid cases. Even N Dakota...N Dakota..who lives there. My friend is shooting an episode of his youtube channel there ..in a town with 37 people..Utah, Wyoming..al going up. Whats the deal? The west is where I escape  the East..not looking good right now


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## ScottySkis (Oct 23, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Its not enough Colorado is on fire..now I read that many states out there are having record spikes in Covid cases. Even N Dakota...N Dakota..who lives there. My friend is shooting an episode of his youtube channel there ..in a town with 37 people..Utah, Wyoming..al going up. Whats the deal? The west is where I escape  the East..not looking good right now



More testing now
People going inside with winter coming to


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## thetrailboss (Oct 23, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Its not enough Colorado is on fire..now I read that many states out there are having record spikes in Covid cases. Even N Dakota...N Dakota..who lives there. My friend is shooting an episode of his youtube channel there ..in a town with 37 people..Utah, Wyoming..al going up. Whats the deal? The west is where I escape  the East..not looking good right now



It's called freedom.


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## abc (Oct 23, 2020)

kingslug said:


> The west is where I escape  the East..not looking good right now


With all due respect, perhaps their cases were brought in by those "escaped" from other Covid hot spots?


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## jimk (Oct 23, 2020)

Believe Utah set their record today for new infections in one day.  I heard yesterday that 40% of the population of N. Dakota has already tested positive for covid.  Almost halfway to herd immunity.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 23, 2020)

abc said:


> With all due respect, perhaps their cases were brought in by those "escaped" from other Covid hot spots?



Negative.


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## thetrailboss (Oct 23, 2020)

jimk said:


> Believe Utah set their record today for new infections in one day.  I heard yesterday that 40% of the population of N. Dakota has already tested positive for covid.  Almost halfway to herd immunity.



Utah did.  

The Governor once again asked people, pretty please, to "do the right thing."  Whatever that is.  Zero leadership.


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## urungus (Oct 23, 2020)

The country as a whole set a record for new infections today ... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/23/us/covid-worst-day.html


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## dlague (Oct 23, 2020)

Well I live in Colorado and since May we have flown to California three times, been UTVing and hiking in Utah twice, been to Wyoming, this past weekend we were in Taos and Santa Fe and are now flying to Turks and Caicos sitting at a restaurant having a beer.  We eat out a lot as well.

We have also been in the mountains a lot!

Just got tested for COVID-19 required to get to T & C and was negative.  So I do. It know what the hell they are all doing!  We social distance and  try to stay outside as much as possible so there is that.

The county I live in has had 9,500 cases but we have 1.1 million people.  A majority have been prisons, nursing homes and now Universities.


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## giantfan (Oct 23, 2020)

jimk said:


> Believe Utah set their record today for new infections in one day.  I heard yesterday that 40% of the population of N. Dakota has already tested positive for covid.  Almost halfway to herd immunity.



North Dakota has had 36k folks test positive with 760k population. Sure there are many who didn't get tested/asymptomatic but maybe not ~30% of the state.  

Source:



https://www.health.nd.gov/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/north-dakota-coronavirus-cases


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## kingslug (Oct 24, 2020)

All I know for sure..this isn't getting better...its getting worse.


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## abc (Oct 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> All I know for sure..this isn't getting better...its getting worse.


We KNOW it’s going to get worse when winter comes! There’s not any doubt about that. Short of a vaccine, that is. 

We maybe a little surprised that the uptick come BEFORE the winter. Will that forecast a worse-than-expected “winter wave”? We don’t know for sure. The two may or may not be related. However... 

The current outbreak seems to relate to kids going back to school, especially college dorms. So that indicates indoor congregation is still the major venue of transmission. That doesn’t bode well about winter in general. When it’s too cold to be outside, the only option left will be 1) no indoor gathering (proven transmission); 2) no outdoor gathering (too cold); 3) *no gathering...*  Will people stop gathering? So far, the evidence is people can’t seem to be able to stop gathering. 

How bad it will be in the winter really depends on how well people “do the right thing” on their own, without enforcement. In the northeast, MOST people has been doing reasonably well on that regard, despite the isolated hotspot of outbreaks from certain community of idiots. Will it be enough to keep the virus in check? That remains to be seen.


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## JimG. (Oct 24, 2020)

abc said:


> How bad it will be in the winter really depends on how well people “do the right thing” on their own, without enforcement. In the northeast, MOST people has been doing reasonably well on that regard, despite the isolated hotspot of outbreaks from certain community of idiots. Will it be enough to keep the virus in check? That remains to be seen.



Plenty of idiots out there, not confined to any one certain group. Humans seemingly have a biological predisposition to gather in large groups and ignore rules.

I know many feel the fierce individualism of many Americans is somehow romantic or appealing, but in our current situation it is nothing more than selfish and stupid.


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## ss20 (Oct 24, 2020)

Utah's hospitals are overflowing yet no mask mandate.  They're not going to do anything about it.  It's a twisted positive but probably means they're going to go ahead with skiing and not shut things down.  Covid be damned.  

CO wildfires are nasty.  Most of the public land out there is closed now (that's like....half the state from a couple maps I saw online).  But they're also getting around a foot of snow tonight through Monday which will be very helpful in containing what's already burning and getting things wet out there again.


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## Not Sure (Oct 24, 2020)

ss20 said:


> .  Covid be damned.  .



My Mother in law had 10 kids ,when one got chicken pox she had all the others play with them as to get it over with . Part of me is thinking  just have a giant "F " Covid party across the USA . 

I know it's not Chicken Pox but there's so much fatigue out there it's been painful in many ways for everyone . It's little known that Chicken pox kills a hundred kids a year. There's a Vaccine too ,hopefully there will be one for Covid out soon .


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## ScottySkis (Oct 24, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Plenty of idiots out there, not confined to any one certain group. Humans seemingly have a biological predisposition to gather in large groups and ignore rules.
> 
> I know many feel the fierce individualism of many Americans is somehow romantic or appealing, but in our current situation it is nothing more than selfish and stupid.


If you are planning to go to Minnewaska or Mohonk Preserve today, be advised that all lots are already full. And they have finally put of a huge no parking on shoulder sign. Now they can start ticketing and towing. The amount of people and cars is crazy, it looks like a festival (I live down the road.) apparently there was an article in The NY Times about our area, so more people will be coming here. Sadly, more people equals more garbage. Happy for the local businesses, but not us locals who need out too.
Yes people getting in car accident on road because they park on road where not allowed and dangerous
I saw video recently it was crazy


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## machski (Oct 24, 2020)

JimG. said:


> Plenty of idiots out there, not confined to any one certain group. Humans seemingly have a biological predisposition to gather in large groups and ignore rules.
> 
> I know many feel the fierce individualism of many Americans is somehow romantic or appealing, but in our current situation it is nothing more than selfish and stupid.


This isn't just an American issue.  Spain, Italy and France totalled 81,022 new cases yesterday, just a wisker short of US new cases.  That with half the US population.  Add in Germany and the UK to that total, Europe with similar population is vastly exceeding the US on daily new case counts.  Its a human thing where populations are not draconianly controlled by their governments.

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## kingslug (Oct 24, 2020)

Anyone still think this is some random event caused by a bat..I sure as hell don't and never have.


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## ScottySkis (Oct 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Anyone still think this is some random event caused by a bat..I sure as hell don't and never have.



I wish we knew but agree with u


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## Dickc (Oct 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Anyone still think this is some random event caused by a bat..I sure as hell don't and never have.



It reads too much like Steven King's "The Stand".  Long book, but read it if you want a shiver down your spine.


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## kingslug (Oct 24, 2020)

Lab in Wuhan
studies corona viruses
corona outbreak starts in ....Wuhan
Chinas gift to the world.


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## fbrissette (Oct 24, 2020)

machski said:


> This isn't just an American issue.  Spain, Italy and France totalled 81,022 new cases yesterday, just a wisker short of US new cases.  That with half the US population.  Add in Germany and the UK to that total, Europe with similar population is vastly exceeding the US on daily new case counts.  Its a human thing where populations are not draconianly controlled by their governments.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


Spain Italy and France had all pretty much reopened everything.  They are now actively reapplying control measures.  Expect the numbers to go down in a few weeks.


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## Smellytele (Oct 24, 2020)

Dickc said:


> It reads too much like Steven King's "The Stand".  Long book, but read it if you want a shiver down your spine.


New miniseries based on the stand coming out soon.


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## abc (Oct 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Lab in Wuhan
> studies corona viruses
> corona outbreak starts in ....Wuhan
> Chinas gift to the world.


China only has one lab???


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## kingslug (Oct 24, 2020)

only 1 level 4 hazard containment lab that studies these viruses..yes.  There arent a lot of these in the world..for good reason.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-wuhan-lab-heart-us-china-virus.html


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Anyone still think this is some random event caused by a bat..I sure as hell don't and never have.



Despite the fact that a random event caused by a bat is a very common cause of disease outbreaks? Not just in China. Check out the excellent book Spillover (2012) by David Quammen which does the best job I've seen so fat of explaining in plain English how these events happen.


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## ScottySkis (Oct 24, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> Despite the fact that a random event caused by a bat is a very common cause of disease outbreaks? Not just in China. Check out the excellent book Spillover (2012) by David Quammen which does the best job I've seen so fat of explaining in plain English how these events happen.



Yes but no virus ever does what this does to human body making it seems like it came from a lab
I sure mistake or on purpose it to late to find out officaly now.
I sure in past history of world bad stuff happens when u mess with things like that in labs through out the world
I sure most world countries would not admit to it that always happens by such wonderful government s around the world
Sorry for rant and political a bump from ski thread


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## ss20 (Oct 24, 2020)

That lab in Wuhan is going to be the 21st century's JFK assassination's conspiracy.  People gonna be looking over it 50 years from now.  I think this was accidently released from a lab.

Anyway, should be a lot of skiing out west in a couple weeks with record cold temperatures and this early snow.  Arapahoe says they're ready.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 24, 2020)

kingslug said:


> *only 1 level 4 hazard containment lab that studies these viruses*..yes.  There arent a lot of these in the world..for good reason.



When I learned early this year that the only Level 4 BioSafety lab in all of China (Snapple fun fact? China's a pretty big country) was literally in Wuhan, and also walking distance from the epicenter of the outbreak, I was 100% convinced SARS-COV-2 accidentally escaped from that lab.   I dont need anyone to "confirm" that for me.  Statistically speaking, it is the mother of all Occam's Razor tests.


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 24, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> When I learned early this year that the only Level 4 BioSafety lab in all of China (Snapple fun fact? China's a pretty big country) was literally in Wuhan, and also walking distance from the epicenter of the outbreak, I was 100% convinced SARS-COV-2 accidentally escaped from that lab.   I dont need anyone to "confirm" that for me.  Statistically speaking, it is the mother of all Occam's Razor tests.




Occams razor applies, but you've got it backwards.  That region has long been the source of viral outbreaks, thus it became a center for research.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 25, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> *Occams razor applies, but you've got it backwards. ** That region has long been the source of viral outbreaks, thus it became a center for research.*



You're going with the, _"it's just a coincidence" _theory.  

Nope.  

And the "nope" explanation is both geographically & statistically explained by you in your above sentence.  

_"region"_


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 25, 2020)

As for _"What in the Sam Hell is going on out West"_, while there are spikes going on, it should be noted that some of the seeming severity of these spikes can essentially be explained by the fact that in any data sample, variance of the mean is inversely proportional to sample size.  

We're also testing a helluva lot more, more than anyone in the world in fact, so we are picking up more positives, even asymptomatic positives, which is a good thing.  For instance, in just the last week both my daughter & I were tested for COVID19 & it wasn't even suspected that either of us had COVID19.  We're likely now "overtesting", but that's not really a bad thing. 

And has previously been mentioned, it's getting colder out so indoor activity is likely picking up.


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## urungus (Oct 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> We're also testing a helluva lot more, more than anyone in the world in fact



Uh no.  From https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> You're going with the, _"it's just a coincidence" _theory.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> ...



Coincidence? No. Just science.  This exact sequence of events has been so widely predicted to happen for so long that they made a movie of it in 2011.  Then when it actually happens, folks insist there must be a conspiracy??? 

Bringing the focus back to skiing and what's happening right now in the West, the case counts will likely climb through the first part of this season and stabilize as the first rounds of vaccines come online in 2021. I imagine the various rules around resort operations will be in place this whole season but may ease before the 21-22 season.


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## Nick (Oct 25, 2020)

I've been super cautious - only have been out to eat twice since Covid started. Mostly still doing Doordash for restaurants, Instacart for groceries. Kids are schooling at home which has been a challenge. 

The thing for us is my father in law is recovering from Leukemia and is high risk, and my mother in law has conditions also that put her into high risk. They spend maybe 1/2 the year with us, so we are being extra cautious especially when they are coming. It's the high risk people I worry most about.


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## Smellytele (Oct 25, 2020)

My in laws decided not to go to Florida this year. They go every year from end of October to the end of April. Didn’t want to travel in a plane nor did they want to drive. None of the fla friends are going down either.


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## Nick (Oct 25, 2020)

Where are they coming from? My father in law has flown a few times now (he is outpatient at Mass General still). always flies with the n95 masks. None of us really feel particularly comfortable with that, but he wnats to be back at his place in south carolina and not be up there the entire time.


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 25, 2020)

Nick said:


> Where are they coming from? My father in law has flown a few times now (he is outpatient at Mass General still). always flies with the n95 masks. None of us really feel particularly comfortable with that, but he wnats to be back at his place in south carolina and not be up there the entire time.



If it helps at all, evidence shows the flying part is actually pretty safe. Two recent studies show extremely low likelihood of transmission on a plane.  Mask wearing is almost universal and the frequent air exchanges that are part of the pressurization process further reduce it.  An excellent real world example is the British guy who was an asymptomatic superspreader. Infected heaps of people in London, flew to Singapore and infected heaps of people there before flying back to the UK.  Nobody on either of his 13 hour flights got infected, and that was before mask wearing.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 25, 2020)

urungus said:


> Uh no.  From https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing



 I thought it was obvious I was talking about raw numbers when I said we're doing more testing than anyone in the world, which, we are.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 25, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> *Coincidence? No. Just science.*  This exact sequence of events has been so widely predicted to happen for so long that they made a movie of it in 2011.  Then *when it actually happens, folks insist there must be a conspiracy??? *



You dont get it.

When I stated the Wuhan Level 4 BioSafety lab is _"walking distance"_ from the Wuhan wet market where the 1st COVID19 cluster broke out, I meant that literally, not figuratively. 

China is a nation of almost 4,000,000 square miles.  

If you wish to believe that COVID19 _"coincidentally"_ broke out that close to the only laboratory in China which studies & houses deadly SARS forms of coronavirus, well, feel free.  

You're additionally wrong to think that outbreaks only happen in that region of China when you say, _"that region has long been the source of viral outbreaks"_.  Hell, prior to COVID19 by far the most famous SARS outbreak (or any outbreak for that matter) was the 2003 SARS, which started in Guandong, which is about 600 miles from Wuhan, which is about the distance from New York City to Georgia!   Not exactly "walking distance" there.


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 25, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> You dont get it.
> 
> When I stated the Wuhan Level 4 BioSafety lab is _"walking distance"_ from the Wuhan wet market where the 1st COVID19 cluster broke out, I meant that literally, not figuratively.
> 
> ...



They think the spillover happened well before the market outbreak. The market itself was fairly well ruled out as a source by the start of summer. Not unusual, markets are often large spreaders of disease.  The region, including the Yangtze and Pearl river deltas is an epicenter for all sorts of fun viral stuff. You're clearly convinced that this wasn't as advertised, and I'm tired of wasting my time explaining to you why that, while not impossible, is exceedingly unlikely.  Believe whatever you want, it ultimately makes no difference. I shall make no further comment on the matter.

I'm just ready to ski.


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## Not Sure (Oct 25, 2020)

How does the CDC keep track of positive or negative tests? . Just thinking my mother had 3 positive tests before beating it . The facility she was in tested weekly, is there a per patient tally or would the positive test be reported to the CDC as " New cases " or an existing positive ?


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 25, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> I'm tired of wasting my time *explaining to you why that*, while not impossible, *is exceedingly unlikely.  *Believe whatever you want, it ultimately makes no difference. I shall make no further comment on the matter.



You explained to me why COVID19 breaking out within walking distance (literally) of the only laboratory which houses deadly viruses in a nation roughly the same size as the United States of America (including Alaska & Hawaii) is merely a coincidence?    

I must have missed that part; I only recall being called a conspiracy theorist.

Imagine walking everywhere in America, the entire nation without missing a speck.  Then do Alaska, again, not missing a speck of it.  Then do Hawaii, same thing.  Roughly 7% of Planet Earth's landmass.

Now randomly "pick" a place anywhere in that massive geography for something to happen, by tossing a dart on a map.  Now imagine the stochastic odds of picking a place within 4 miles.  Good luck with that; but believe whatever you want, it ultimately makes no difference (though it will eventually).


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## zoomzoom (Oct 25, 2020)

scroll down to:
"cases", where the numbers are rising. with 70K new cases per day on the latest 7-day average.

"deaths", where the numbers are still flat.  with 780 dead per day on the latest 7 day average. regardless of what anyone says, we are not rounding any corner.

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en


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## abc (Oct 26, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> They think the spillover happened well before the market outbreak. The market itself was fairly well ruled out as a source by the start of summer. Not unusual, markets are often large spreaders of disease.  The region, including the Yangtze and Pearl river deltas is an epicenter for all sorts of fun viral stuff. You're clearly convinced that this wasn't as advertised, and I'm tired of wasting my time explaining to you why that, while not impossible, is exceedingly unlikely.  Believe whatever you want, it ultimately makes no difference. I shall make no further comment on the matter.


Yeah!!!

The Chinese have been responsible for half of all the flu in all the years we have flu records! I'm damn sure they were all manufactured in their army lab, designed to wipe out white men!!!

Hahaha!


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## jimmywilson69 (Oct 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> I thought it was obvious I was talking about raw numbers when I said we're doing more testing than anyone in the world, which, we are.



right that list is ridiculous with Luxembourg at the top  :lol:


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## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> ...I must have missed that part; I only recall being called a conspiracy theorist..



It's funny, I didn't realize there were still people who didn't think this thing came from a lab in Wuhan. I thought the base assumption was it came from a lab and most likely was released accidentally. But, it's impossible to be certain given opacity from the Chinese government. Even prominent left leaning (so silly that it's relevant to bring up, but such is life in 2020) academic/political commentators like the Weinstein brothers have said that's their working assumption on their podcasts. I'm going to take a straw poll with my college buddies on our Snap chain, but I cant imagine the ~70-80%/20-30% left/right contingent doesn't overwhelmingly assume the same. 

Some free advice for 2planks, these two things can be true at once: 1) the People's Republic of China is an obviously malevolent world actor that likely bit off more than it could chew regarding virology and 2) given this, there was a response by the US federal government that you can still criticize. That way, you can save yourself the need to defend Beijing (unless that's your thing).

That said, treatment seems to be improving as we learn more about the virus. No hospital overwhelming yet either (I frankly doubt it will get that bad again given how NYC in March/April went). Hopefully, a vaccine is truly around the corner. I've heard from industry insiders that vaccines are indeed being produced in mass in advance in the hopes that one of them is approved. The question now seems, do those who are worried bunker down and wait for the vaccine, or not?


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## abc (Oct 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> No hospital overwhelming yet either (I frankly doubt it will get that bad again given how NYC in March/April went).


But it's about to happen in Utah! (note the opening post of this thread)


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## abc (Oct 26, 2020)

> Hopefully, a vaccine is truly around the corner. I've heard from industry insiders that vaccines are indeed being produced in mass in advance in the hopes that one of them is approved. The question now seems, do those who are worried bunker down and wait for the vaccine, or not?


Count me in as one who will hunker down and wait for the vaccine. 

I used to ski in Europe often, and still have contact over there. Skiers were the first group who got infected back in March. Report of those who "got it" range from quick recovery to 80-90% recovered to one or two case of only 50-60% recovered now at 6 months post infection. I don't feel like taking the risk of missing a season (ski season or cycling season) at random if I end up with only 80% recovery 6 month post Covid. 

I prefer to miss a season on purpose. That's just me, take the predictable over the unpredictable. 

Though when I say that, I mean I will NOT COMMIT to skiing by buying season pass. I may still ski when/if possible. In fact, my "hunker down" probably involves more of non-skiing activities (car pool, overnight stay at hotel...) rather than skiing itself. (Though as a "flatlander", no overnight means a lot less skiing opportunities. Hence the no pass commitment part).

(mind you, the more realistic expectation of vaccine for general public is summer of 2021, AFTER the 20/21 ski season)


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## FBGM (Oct 26, 2020)

Utah is currently a junk show. Here’s what’s going on in this hood...

Our Gov, gov Herbie, is one of those that thinks all is fine and the virus is not a big deal. He is just doing nothing and doesn’t care. Ya know, rounding the corner. 

Bars and restaurants have been open for a while. Bar seating open. If there are capacity limits, it’d making no difference. Places are busy. Places are packed. 

The mask “mandate” is useless. The Mormons are dumb and shit. They think Mormon Jesus will save them and this is a Hoax. They challenged the mask mandate down in Utah County where all the Mo’s live. So yeah, just send it down there. 

Cases are as high as ever in Utah and not slowing down. Hospitals are pretty close to being at capacity. 

The main issue down in the cities is people don’t give a shit. Everyone out here is to proud to wear a mask or think they know more then the doctors. 

Up in Summit County, where the rich are hiding, is doing better. Mask mandate. Pretty much everyone is following. But like Park City, fucking busy as ever. People everywhere. Bars and restaurants full. Even with mask mandates it’s just straight up busy. 

The Valley will ruin it for all. Stupid people and Mormons. Stupid religion. Influx of more dumb. 

I’ve been back to the office for months now. My company doesn’t really care about this. No masks at office. Still in meetings with people. No social distancing. If I asked to go back to work from home it would be 100% no and someone would probably call me a pussy.


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## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

abc said:


> Count me in as one who will hunker down and wait for the vaccine.
> 
> I used to ski in Europe often, and still have contact over there. Skiers were the first group who got infected back in March. Report of those who "got it" range from quick recovery to 80-90% recovered to one or two case of only 50-60% recovered now at 6 months post infection. I don't feel like taking the risk of missing a season (ski season or cycling season) at random if I end up with only 80% recovery 6 month post Covid.
> 
> ...



Your approach seems totally reasonable to me. I'll just be day tripping this year most likely, so maybe an Indy pass, but that's it. 

I'm ~30 and have no known co-morbidities. I don't expect to be vaccine eligible until around June. Anything sooner than that would be gravy. 

Regarding bursting through capacity in UT, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach. It was supposed to happen in Houston this summer, too, but never came to pass. Saw a SLC Tribune article from yesterday which sounds like there is now an expectation that more surge capacity will be needed and that there could be a need for temporary personnel. Hard to know if this is a CYA approach or not though. I'd want to cover mine, too. That said, definitely scary stuff if you're old and vulnerable living out there. Color me still skeptical that it gets to the point of rationing care given what we've already been through this year.


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## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Utah is currently a junk show. Here’s what’s going on in this hood...
> 
> Our Gov, gov Herbie, is one of those that thinks all is fine and the virus is not a big deal. He is just doing nothing and doesn’t care. Ya know, rounding the corner.
> 
> ...



If you're this contemptuous about the culture out there, it sounds like you made a massive error in judgement moving out there in the first place. Maybe Reno or Denver are more your speed.


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## FBGM (Oct 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> If you're this contemptuous about the culture out there, it sounds like you made a massive error in judgement moving out there in the first place. Maybe Reno or Denver are more your speed.



No, I love where I live. And will hate and bash the Mormons all day and have for years. They are a fake cult and worship a fake kiddie diddler Jesus. How can you not bash them, they make it to easy. I live here for access to work, travel and skiing. And the climate and weather. The Mormons and other wack ass holes just get in the way sometimes. But anywhere you live you will always have something to complain about.


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## Edd (Oct 26, 2020)

FBGM said:


> No, I love where I live. And will hate and bash the Mormons all day and have for years. They are a fake cult and worship a fake kiddie diddler Jesus. How can you not bash them, they make it to easy. I live here for access to work, travel and skiing. And the climate and weather. The Mormons and other wack ass holes just get in the way sometimes. But anywhere you live you will always have something to complain about.



F**k, I LOL’d at this post for real. 


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## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

FBGM said:


> No, I love where I live. And will hate and bash the Mormons all day and have for years. They are a fake cult and worship a fake kiddie diddler Jesus. How can you not bash them, they make it to easy. I live here for access to work, travel and skiing. And the climate and weather. The Mormons and other wack ass holes just get in the way sometimes. But anywhere you live you will always have something to complain about.



I get there's a trade-off, but UT is the only place one can live in a Mormon church-state. Don't get me wrong, I find the rules there onerous and the missionaries wandering the streets of PC strange. Hating the dominant culture where you live is a real price to pay though, or dare I say, cross to bear. 

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## FBGM (Oct 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> I get there's a trade-off, but UT is the only place one can live in a Mormon church-state. Don't get me wrong, I find the rules there onerous and the missionaries wandering the streets of PC strange. Hating the dominant culture where you live is a real price to pay though, or dare I say, cross to bear.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



When I first moved here I had no idea what a Mormon was. I moved here for snow and work. Then I learned - and by learn I mean shake my head in confusion. 

Besides the government and church in bed and the Mormons shoving their religion down your throat like a back room porno, it’s not that bad. 

Park City is almost a bubble compared to the rest of the State. If I didn’t work down in the city I’d would hardly ever come down here. 

The liquor laws have actually got much better. And while it’s no Vegas on a Saturday booze party, I don’t even notice anymore the difference and few weird laws left. 

This whole Covid thing is so political out here, and with the church and government holding each ones pee pee this is probably the first time in a while I can actually be pissed about it all. 

Till then, I’ll burn that cross and not bear.


----------



## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

FBGM said:


> When I first moved here I had no idea what a Mormon was. I moved here for snow and work. Then I learned - and by learn I mean shake my head in confusion.
> 
> Besides the government and church in bed and the Mormons shoving their religion down your throat like a back room porno, it’s not that bad.
> 
> ...



Good to know that things are getting better. Ironically enough, High West is one of my favorite bars I've been to. That said, culturally, Utah and Los Angeles are the two places I've been in the US where I really don't know if the culture would be for me. 

 Hopefully, the ski season gets off without too much difficulty. You'll be in a relatively good spot out there assuming a decent winter, but I'm concerned about snowmaking budgets back east for sure.


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 26, 2020)

abc said:


> Count me in as one who will hunker down and wait for the vaccine.
> 
> I used to ski in Europe often, and still have contact over there. Skiers were the first group who got infected back in March. Report of those who "got it" range from quick recovery to 80-90% recovered to one or two case of only 50-60% recovered now at 6 months post infection. I don't feel like taking the risk of missing a season (ski season or cycling season) at random if I end up with only 80% recovery 6 month post Covid.
> 
> ...



A sane and reasonable approach. Though I intend to ski as much as I possibly can, I respect those who feel their personal risk profile or those they may spread it to is just too high. You are correct that general public availability of any vaccine may not be until after the end of the ski season.


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 26, 2020)

Al from A Basin is pleaing for the Summit County CO folks to do the right thing.  Looks like they are having an outbreak and its from the locals not tourists.

http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2020/10/to-summit-county-residents.html


----------



## ScottySkis (Oct 26, 2020)

abc said:


> Yeah!!!
> 
> The Chinese have been responsible for half of all the flu in all the years we have flu records! I'm damn sure they were all manufactured in their army lab, designed to wipe out white men!!!
> 
> Hahaha!



I believe that
Unfortunately most of my family watching CNN don't believe it
It amazing sad same for people on Facebook left democrats don't believe it all
Fortunate for me I informed by what I understand all us polticals are corrupt by money and lobists
Sorry for getting political


----------



## FBGM (Oct 26, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> I believe that
> Unfortunately most of my family watching CNN don't believe it
> It amazing sad same for people on Facebook left democrats don't believe it all
> Fortunate for me I informed by what I understand all us polticals are corrupt by money and lobists
> Sorry for getting political



Mmm science bad. Orange man good.


----------



## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Mmm science bad. Orange man good.



As the son of two retired physicians, I can't wait for armchair virology to go away.


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> As the son of two retired physicians, I can't wait for armchair virology to go away.



LOL....  That's not going to happen.  In 2014-15 when I was working on Ebola, I thought it was bad then.  I had no clue how bad it could get. Social media will continue to reward it, and I honestly have no idea what the solution might be.


----------



## jimk (Oct 26, 2020)

Is it correct that while we are seeing record-breaking daily infection rates across the US, we are seeing much lower daily death rates than back in the spring?  It seems like the virus has mutated to a weaker strain and/or our treatments are more effective.  Anecdotally, the handful of covid cases I know about in my circle of acquaintances have all been mild cases in recent months.


----------



## EPB (Oct 26, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> LOL....  That's not going to happen.  In 2014-15 when I was working on Ebola, I thought it was bad then.  I had no clue how bad it could get. Social media will continue to reward it, and I honestly have no idea what the solution might be.


Me neither haha. I think getting out and going skiing will do wonders here.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## 2planks2coasts (Oct 26, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> Me neither haha. I think getting out and going skiing will do wonders here.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app



oh hell yes.  I'm a straight up addict in need of a fix at this point.


----------



## mikec142 (Oct 26, 2020)

Kinda off topic.  I loved my March 2019 visit to PC.  Planned to go back in March 2020, but we all know how that went.  

On the topic of weird liquor laws.  There were many places to eat/drink where you couldn't enter if you were under 21.  Even if the person under 21 wasn't drinking.  Made it hard(er) to go out as a family.  Was disappointed I didn't get to go to High West for this very reason.  Seems monumentally dumb to me.  

There are plenty of places I've been where a minor isn't allow to sit at the bar even if they aren't drinking.  This also seems dumb, but c'est a vie.  But PC was the first place I can recall where we couldn't go out as a family to the local burger place.


----------



## trackbiker (Oct 26, 2020)

mikec142 said:


> Kinda off topic.  I loved my March 2019 visit to PC.  Planned to go back in March 2020, but we all know how that went.
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of places I've been where a minor isn't allow to sit at the bar even if they aren't drinking.  This also seems dumb, but c'est a vie.



I also think is it crazy that kids can't even be in a restaurant that serves liquor but I totally agree that kids should *not* be sitting at a bar. They take up places where adults could be sitting and buying drinks and also are not necessarily well behaved. If you have kids get a table and take your drinks and kids there.


----------



## FBGM (Oct 26, 2020)

mikec142 said:


> Kinda off topic.  I loved my March 2019 visit to PC.  Planned to go back in March 2020, but we all know how that went.
> 
> On the topic of weird liquor laws.  There were many places to eat/drink where you couldn't enter if you were under 21.  Even if the person under 21 wasn't drinking.  Made it hard(er) to go out as a family.  Was disappointed I didn't get to go to High West for this very reason.  Seems monumentally dumb to me.
> 
> There are plenty of places I've been where a minor isn't allow to sit at the bar even if they aren't drinking.  This also seems dumb, but c'est a vie.  But PC was the first place I can recall where we couldn't go out as a family to the local burger place.



What burger place didn’t let your kids in?

The “law” now (shit changes non stop - so 2019 could have been different) says there is a difference between and bar and restaurant. All has to do with food serving I think and whether you need to order food for drink...I fucking live here and can’t keep it straight. 

So example, OShucks on Main Street, your standard dirtbag dive bar - bar only. 21+ only. No Name next to it is the same. Check all IDs at door. But No Name just expanded next door to a “family restaurant, not bar” so there you can go with like mom/dad and your 10 year old kid. 

I would “assume” high west doesn’t want kids for few reasons. One being they want the adult distillery vibe and are a bit more high end. No one wants screaming kids. Also, the fact they are a distillery might change their rules so they can’t even have kids. They do have their dining room separate from the pub/lounge up top? 

Again, I live here, visit all these places regularly, and still can’t keep the rules straight.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 26, 2020)

abc said:


> * the more realistic expectation of vaccine for general public is summer of 2021*



Yet again on this board, I'll take the UNDER on that vaccine timeline as well.

Especially given all the chuckleheaded anti-science fools out there combined with the people who are being "scared" away from this vaccine for political reasons.  But even if that weren't the case, I'd still take the UNDER, I just wouldnt be quite as sure.



FBGM said:


> *anywhere you live you will always have something to complain about.*



I believe you.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 26, 2020)

jimk said:


> *It seems like the virus has mutated to a weaker strain and/or our treatments are more effective. *



The later is certainly true, the former is possible true via what is essentially a quick form of natural selection, which is a fascinating subject, but we wont know the answer to that for a long time.  

The one culprit for declining deaths in light of increasing cases which you did not mention, is that there is currently a bias for younger people to get it now, and very few young people die from COVID19.  Sadly, is seems that people < 30 fully realize that there's a 99.9something% chance they'll beat the virus, and so they D.G.A.S.  The 25 year old wants to get laid, and they're not going to not go to the bar Friday night to try to make that happen.  Let's just hope they dont give it to Grammy & Grampy this Thanksgiving, which worries me.



FBGM said:


> *What burger place didn’t let your kids in?*



I was puzzled by this comment too.  I've definitely drank beer in Utah is plenty of places where there were children.


----------



## Not Sure (Oct 26, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> LOL.... . Social media will continue to reward it, and I honestly have no idea what the solution might be.



One good worldwide EMP . Then they'll beat there I phones into plow shares.


----------



## 2planks2coasts (Oct 26, 2020)

Siliconebobsquarepants said:


> One good worldwide EMP . Then they'll beat there I phones into plow shares.



True, but that would seriously hamper most resort operations as well


----------



## kingslug (Oct 26, 2020)

El Paso just instituted a curfew. Going backwards over there. 
Funny thing about Utah..I've only had good experiences with Mormons..limited but good. One drove me back to my hotel after spending 5 hours getting back from Alta after an avalanche fucked the road. I was in a store talking about it and the mile walk back to the hotel..she drove me there...never had that any where. But I don't live there so I only get a small taste of it a few times a year..not this year it looks like.


----------



## Not Sure (Oct 26, 2020)

2planks2coasts said:


> True, but that would seriously hamper most resort operations as well



Yes ,that's the plan . I can get a couple G's for my used Marker Dukes


----------



## jimk (Oct 26, 2020)

kingslug said:


> El Paso just instituted a curfew. Going backwards over there.
> Funny thing about Utah..I've only had good experiences with Mormons..limited but good. One drove me back to my hotel after spending 5 hours getting back from Alta after an avalanche fucked the road. I was in a store talking about it and the mile walk back to the hotel..she drove me there...never had that any where. But I don't live there so I only get a small taste of it a few times a year..not this year it looks like.



Politically I'm an independent that leans Red. Socially I'm on the moderate to conservative side.  Been spending a lot of time in the Salt Lake Valley in recent years including 3.5 mos in 2019 and 5.5 mos in 2020.  I'm not really close to any LDS, but I generally enjoy the clean cut, gee willikers vibe they exude.  Sorry for stereotyping any hipster LDS reading this;-)


----------



## jimmywilson69 (Oct 27, 2020)

I've never seen "gee willikers" spelled out before :lol:   Seems like a spot on description  :lol:


----------



## kingslug (Oct 27, 2020)

It snowed in Utah...
That is all...


----------



## Smellytele (Oct 27, 2020)

Right the gee williker type that will marry off their 14 yo daughter to some 35 year old.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## FBGM (Oct 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Right the gee williker type that will marry off their 14 yo daughter to some 35 year old.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Did you know BYU girls like to do butt stuff because it keeps them a “virgin”. 

Very nice. High five (Borat voice).


----------



## jaytrem (Oct 27, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Did you know BYU girls like to do butt stuff because it keeps them a “virgin”.
> 
> Very nice. High five (Borat voice).



I hear "soaking" is all the rage out there.


----------



## EPB (Oct 27, 2020)

jaytrem said:


> I hear "soaking" is all the rage out there.


Had to look that one up... New leader in the clubhouse for why UT is experiencing a COVID spike. Can't put it off forever.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## mikec142 (Oct 27, 2020)

Going back to the PC burger place...it was No Name Saloon.

Regarding kids sitting at the bar...I understand both sides of the coin.  My kids are 18 and 16 so they aren't disturbing anyone.  But that doesn't mean that another family couldn't belly up to the bar with screaming 5 year old twins.  My gut feeling is that you'd rather have my family of four at the bar over ordering food (cuz I'm a pig) and a couple of drinks than the dude who nurses one beer for two hours.  Problem is that you never know which person you get.


----------



## Edd (Oct 27, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> Had to look that one up



Same.


----------



## mbedle (Oct 27, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Right the gee williker type that will marry off their 14 yo daughter to some 35 year old.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



In all do fairness, that is not the LDS Church, but the fringe fundamentalist sects like the FDLS.


----------



## djd66 (Oct 27, 2020)

mikec142 said:


> Going back to the PC burger place...it was No Name Saloon.



Mike - I was just out there last February and had the exact same experience at the same restaurant.  We went to another place, they would not seat us in the downstairs and had to wait for an upstairs table.  It is what it is,... annoying - but the skiing was awesome.  The other annoying thing was the "1 shot" law.  I think they were charging $20 for a neat whiskey(1 measured shot)  in the hotel bar during happy hour. My workaround was I bought my own bottle, kept it in the room and filled my own glass with a proper pour so my wife could enjoy a drink without hearing me complain.


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 27, 2020)

mikec142 said:


> Going back to the PC burger place...it was No Name Saloon.
> 
> Regarding kids sitting at the bar...I understand both sides of the coin.  My kids are 18 and 16 so they aren't disturbing anyone.  But that doesn't mean that another family couldn't belly up to the bar with screaming 5 year old twins.  My gut feeling is that you'd rather have my family of four at the bar over ordering food (cuz I'm a pig) and a couple of drinks than the dude who nurses one beer for two hours.  Problem is that you never know which person you get.


As a long time bartender (not for many years now) I didn't want anyone under the age of 21 sitting at the actual bar.  Table/wait service only for those underage.  

While yes, technically it could be more lucrative to have a family of four with two teenagers vs four guys nursing beers, the general vibe from customers is the vast majority do not want to share bar seats and conversations with teenagers adjacent to them. 



Sent from my moto g power using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Edd (Oct 27, 2020)

Kids at the bar are unacceptable. 


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## thetrailboss (Oct 27, 2020)

JimG. said:


> I know many feel the fierce individualism of many Americans is somehow romantic or appealing, but in our current situation it is nothing more than selfish and stupid.



Bingo.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 27, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Did you know BYU girls like to do butt stuff because it keeps them a “virgin”.
> 
> Very nice. High five (Borat voice).



The Church does not approve of that (homosexual) behavior.  Talk about Purgatory for these folks.  

On a similar note, the Church's position on LGBTQ issues has really, really burned them over the last 20 years.  Lots of young folks leaving.


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## mikec142 (Oct 27, 2020)

djd66 said:


> Mike - I was just out there last February and had the exact same experience at the same restaurant.  We went to another place, they would not seat us in the downstairs and had to wait for an upstairs table.  It is what it is,... annoying - but the skiing was awesome.  The other annoying thing was the "1 shot" law.  I think they were charging $20 for a neat whiskey(1 measured shot)  in the hotel bar during happy hour. My workaround was I bought my own bottle, kept it in the room and filled my own glass with a proper pour so my wife could enjoy a drink without hearing me complain.



Definitely annoying but not disqualifying.  At the end of the day, there are weird laws and regulations that will always be around in some manner so c'est la vie.

I loved PC.  The town was fun for the whole family.  Skiing at PC and Canyons was fine, but the skiing at Alta was amazing.  When I go back I will again stay in PC and make trips out to LCC and BCC for the skiing.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 27, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> *Had to look that one up*... New leader in the clubhouse for why UT is experiencing a COVID spike. Can't put it off forever.



So would I, which is precisely why I'm not gonna'. 



mikec142 said:


> Going back to the PC burger place...it was *No Name Saloon.
> *



That place is so overrated.  

 The interior decor is cool, and the fact there's a rooftop deck is cool, but the food was awful.


----------



## cdskier (Oct 27, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> So would I, which is precisely why I'm not gonna'.



I looked it up. Weird and seems rather pointless, but that's about it. I was expecting something much worse than what it is.


----------



## deadheadskier (Oct 27, 2020)

I had to look it up too and also thought it was gonna be some really weird fetish. 

Turns out it was just the Mormon version of the movie Wedding Crashers phrase "just the tip"

https://youtu.be/1tgS1n7DQbY







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## slatham (Oct 28, 2020)

From Al's Blog at A-Basin:

Snowmaking Update
This past storm was very good for us. Colorado's drought, however, has impacted snowmaking. Our ability to make snow is driven by many factors including streamflow. The higher the streamflow, the more water we have for snowmaking. The lower the streamflow, the less water we have for snowmaking. Following a dry Summer and Fall, our snowmaking is moving a little slower than most of you want to see. With the recent snow and sunny days forecast all week, we are seeing a big jump in streamflows. On top of that, our restrictions on diverting water are more favorable for snowmaking in November and December. After a good snwomaking start earlier this month, the last week has been kind of slow. We anticipate a good bump in snowmaking later this week and through November.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 28, 2020)

I try to be a sympathetic fellow, but I just cant really lament Colorado's declined ability for snowmaking.


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 28, 2020)

slatham said:


> From Al's Blog at A-Basin:
> 
> Snowmaking Update
> This past storm was very good for us. Colorado's drought, however, has impacted snowmaking. Our ability to make snow is driven by many factors including streamflow. The higher the streamflow, the more water we have for snowmaking. The lower the streamflow, the less water we have for snowmaking. Following a dry Summer and Fall, our snowmaking is moving a little slower than most of you want to see. With the recent snow and sunny days forecast all week, we are seeing a big jump in streamflows. On top of that, our restrictions on diverting water are more favorable for snowmaking in November and December. After a good snwomaking start earlier this month, the last week has been kind of slow. We anticipate a good bump in snowmaking later this week and through November.



It is going to be a problem for other places out here.  We have had a bad drought.  Since March our precipitation has pretty much been shut off.  

And it also has been WAY warmer than normal.  The long term forecast is not promising.  But we are also in a pandemic so that puts a real damper on skiing and riding.


----------



## ss20 (Oct 28, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> It is going to be a problem for other places out here.  We have had a bad drought.  Since March our precipitation has pretty much been shut off.
> 
> And it also has been WAY warmer than normal.  The long term forecast is not promising.  But we are also in a pandemic so that puts a real damper on skiing and riding.



Strong model agreement for a big storm late next week fwiw.  

Big Sky finally turned off the guns and pushed out the piles almost a full month before their opening.  

Saw racers skiing at Copper today on the webcam.  Lucky SOB's


----------



## FBGM (Oct 29, 2020)

ss20 said:


> Strong model agreement for a big storm late next week fwiw.
> 
> Big Sky finally turned off the guns and pushed out the piles almost a full month before their opening.
> 
> Saw racers skiing at Copper today on the webcam.  Lucky SOB's



I nerd out hard on weather. Last 2 days the runs have been consistent which is nice this far out. Possibility of this grabbing some pacific/tropical moisture. Which would be great givin the temps look to be in place. Still 7-10 days out so the world could change by then. But we need the moisture. It’s about time for it to turn on, stay on and stay cold. Worst is the early snow followed by dry cold. Then we all die in the BC


----------



## kingslug (Oct 29, 2020)

Or the East early season..hey it snowed...hey..it rained.....


----------



## thetrailboss (Oct 29, 2020)

ss20 said:


> Strong model agreement for a big storm late next week fwiw.
> 
> Big Sky finally turned off the guns and pushed out the piles almost a full month before their opening.
> 
> Saw racers skiing at Copper today on the webcam.  Lucky SOB's



Hope so!  Most models I have seen have said at least two weeks of this warm, dry, weather.


----------



## FBGM (Oct 29, 2020)

thetrailboss said:


> Hope so!  Most models I have seen have said at least two weeks of this warm, dry, weather.



Updated 12z made me go 6 to midnight. Improve the from yesterday and flow behind is perfect. Let’s hope this forecast trend holds up. This is for Nov 8-12th range. So still over a week out.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 29, 2020)

FBGM said:


> This is for* Nov 8-12th range. So still over a week out*.



You're looking at models 10 to 12 days out?   There are easier ways to disappoint yourself.


----------



## FBGM (Oct 29, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> You're looking at models 10 to 12 days out?   There are easier ways to disappoint yourself.



Meh, 10 days out is about when you can actually start believing and start to think details. At least intermountain west. Usually don’t have to put elevation and snow level into the mix. Where East coast that shit changes hourly. 

I try to look at the bigger picture. Jet and flow. Where the moisture is coming from and origin of it. Less concern of timing. Whatever there.


----------



## FBGM (Oct 30, 2020)

Utah hit its highest Covid positive count today. 2,300. They sent out one of those iPhone alerts. 

It’s 50/50 still with “I don’t care” and “we are all going to die”


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 30, 2020)

FBGM said:


> *It’s 50/50 still with “I don’t care” and “we are all going to die”*



Both are terribly wrong, but (glances at COVID19 overall survival data stratified by age) the former is more reasonable if forced to choose.


----------



## FBGM (Nov 2, 2020)

If the state shuts down soon here is the reason...

BYU students (Mormons) threw a 5,000-10,000 people Halloween party this past weekend. Videos I’ve seen it looks like a full on concert with DJ and kids shoulder to shoulder as far as you can see. They claimed it was a “protest” against Covid. 

Now we all know my stance on this fake religious cult from my previous posts. But fuck. God damn idiots. Brainwashed fucktards down in Utah County. 2 days after Utah had 2,300 cases this happens. Our governor Herby is half a retard but if this causes a huge spike he might shut the shit down again. Which means we can’t ski. This will be all thanks to the Mormons. 

We need to build a wall around Utah county and BYU


----------



## kingslug (Nov 2, 2020)

Well, they just instituted mandatory mask wearing..guess its a start. Sux that I probably won't be going there for the first time in 22 years.
And this is what I've been saying all along..its not walking down the street without a mask thats the problem..its the parties, well and the subways here..Everyone jammed into a space pretty much guarantees someone will get it..and spread it.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 2, 2020)

I'm glad Mormons are allowed to celebrate Halloween.  I wouldn't have guessed that.


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## dblskifanatic (Nov 2, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Well, they just instituted mandatory mask wearing..guess its a start. Sux that I probably won't be going there for the first time in 22 years.
> And this is what I've been saying all along..its not walking down the street without a mask thats the problem..its the parties, well and the subways here..Everyone jammed into a space pretty much guarantees someone will get it..and spread it.



American Airlines are packing their planes.  Rather than limiting passengers like Southwest (3 to a row), American Airlines is flying fewer planes but packing the planes leaving no empty seats.  That clearly does not fit the responsibility agenda!


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## icecoast1 (Nov 2, 2020)

dblskifanatic said:


> American Airlines are packing their planes.  Rather than limiting passengers like Southwest (3 to a row), American Airlines is flying fewer planes but packing the planes leaving no empty seats.  That clearly does not fit the responsibility agenda!




Southwest is going to start filling planes again soon.  Nobody is forcing anyone to fly or fly the airlines filling flights.  If you're in the high risk risk category for covid or worried about contracting it, don't get on the plane in the first place


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## dlague (Nov 2, 2020)

icecoast1 said:


> Southwest is going to start filling planes again soon.  Nobody is forcing anyone to fly or fly the airlines filling flights.  If you're in the high risk risk category for covid or worried about contracting it, don't get on the plane in the first place



I agree!  We did and that is how we found out!  Denver to Miami and on the way back Miami to Denver filled to the max!  There is no service.  Miami to Turks and Caicos was about half full mandated by T & C.  BTW Miamiairport restaurants are also fully open.  Not the case in Denver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kingslug (Nov 2, 2020)

If they don't pack them..they will be out of business soon.


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## machski (Nov 2, 2020)

kingslug said:


> If they don't pack them..they will be out of business soon.


In American's case, they still might be in dire straights even packing their planes.  Worst financial shape of the big 4.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app


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## Edd (Nov 2, 2020)

FBGM said:


> If the state shuts down soon here is the reason...
> 
> BYU students (Mormons) threw a 5,000-10,000 people Halloween party this past weekend. Videos I’ve seen it looks like a full on concert with DJ and kids shoulder to shoulder as far as you can see. They claimed it was a “protest” against Covid.
> 
> ...



(Crosses Utah off list of places to travel ever again) 

I’m good! Lots of places to ski. Do not need Utah.


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## abc (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> If they don't pack them..they will be out of business soon.


Even packing their planes won’t save them!

The only way they can survive is by government bail out.


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## kingslug (Nov 3, 2020)

Well the gov printed about 4 or 5 trillion..maybe have some for airlines.


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## icecoast1 (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Well the gov printed about 4 or 5 trillion..maybe have some for airlines.




They already got a bunch through the Cares act/PPP but it was only a short term measure that ran out


----------



## Brewbeer (Nov 3, 2020)

Airlines made 100B$ in PROFIT between the beginning of 2015 and the end of 2017.  

Let them go bankrupt.


----------



## kingslug (Nov 3, 2020)

My Conestoga wagon broke down..its a long way to Utah.


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## ScottySkis (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> My Conestoga wagon broke down..its a long way to Utah.



Amtrak


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 3, 2020)

ScottySkis said:


> *Amtrak*



It would be quicker to wait for the Conestoga wagon repairs.


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## kingslug (Nov 3, 2020)

Guess I'll have to fix the damn wagon. Because Utah is looking a hell of a lot better than vermont right now.


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## EPB (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> Guess I'll have to fix the damn wagon. Because Utah is looking a hell of a lot better than vermont right now.


As a biased NH native, I must point out that Live Free or Die > Quarantine till you Die. 

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## abc (Nov 3, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> As a biased NH native, I must point out that Live Free or Die > Quarantine till you Die.


Nooope... It's quarantine OR die!


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## abc (Nov 3, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> As a biased NH native, I must point out that Live Free or Die > Quarantine till you Die.


Shouldn't it be, Quarantine OR Die?


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## kingslug (Nov 3, 2020)

This season  will be the first season I will be hoping for May to come around..so I can get on the track..where none of this shit is going on


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## deadheadskier (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> This season  will be the first season I will be hoping for May to come around..so I can get on the track..where none of this shit is going on


Pretty much

Only for me, substitute boat for track.

I'll make the best of the season and hope for a vaccine that returns things to mostly normal and a better 2021-2022 ski season. 

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## abc (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> This season  will be the first season I will be hoping for May to come around..so I can get on the track..where none of this shit is going on


Sigh...

My plan? 

- Mountain bike till late December/early Jan, that's typically when snow will cover the trail or make it too wet to ride. 

- Hike on trails that aren't too wet, yet. Probably the month of Jan

- When and if the snow got deep enough, xc ski (Minnewaska/Mohonk). Or bc skiing in the Cats. If not, continue with hiking. That would be late Jan through Feb, into March

- March, should be warm enough to hike or mountain bike. 

- April, road ride. 

Maybe we'll get a vaccine by then!!!

(Part of the reason I choose to live where I live is precisely because there're huge range of activities available!)


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## chuckstah (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> This season  will be the first season I will be hoping for May to come around..so I can get on the track..where none of this shit is going on


Complete opposite for me. I plan to ski every day, or night I can all season. The longer the better. Vermont is not in my ski equation as of now, but NH offers plenty of opportunity on Epic. Outdoor  exercise has been on the top of things to do for months and will remain so. 

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## JimG. (Nov 3, 2020)

kingslug said:


> This season  will be the first season I will be hoping for May to come around..so I can get on the track..where none of this shit is going on



Maybe I'll try ice fishing...if it's cold enough this winter.


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## FBGM (Nov 3, 2020)

Looks like Utah got a new governor. He’s a Mormon. No real difference from Herbie who was the past dude. 

If Covid was only passed via Vagina sex all would be safe.


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## EPB (Nov 4, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Looks like Utah got a new governor. He’s a Mormon. No real difference from Herbie who was the past dude.
> 
> If Covid was only passed via Vagina sex all would be safe.


No fan of Mormonism, but it seems like it owns space in your head. Can't say I blame you though.

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## kingslug (Nov 4, 2020)

Too bad we have a 2nd home in Vt and its going to be a PITA to use it..NH would be good but thats a hell of a day trip..could always do hotels..Hunter is always an option..wonder what a shit show that will be...but its close. If its a good winter we'll make the best of it. Nothing has ever stopped us yet.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 4, 2020)

abc said:


> Nooope... It's quarantine OR die!



Statistically false for well over 99% of the population.



kingslug said:


> Hunter is always an option..wonder what a shit show that will be...but its close.



Wouldnt you have to do that COVID19 test & quarantine before you're allowed to ski?   Assuming you actually paid attention to it.


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## cdskier (Nov 4, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Wouldnt you have to do that COVID19 test & quarantine before you're allowed to ski?   Assuming you actually paid attention to it.



I don't think so. States that border NY are exempt from their travel advisory and restrictions.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 4, 2020)

eastern powder baby said:


> No fan of Mormonism, but it seems like it owns space in your head. Can't say I blame you though.



They seem like the nicest people, frankly.  Sure, as far as religions go they've got some odd stuff going on, but it doesnt affect me other than the booze laws when I there. If it werent for the insane alcohol laws they wouldnt bother me a bit.  Also, why does there need to be a church every 1/2 mile?  Why not just built bigger churches.  This puzzles me.


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## Smellytele (Nov 4, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Also, why does there need to be a church every 1/2 mile?  Why not just built bigger churches.  This puzzles me.



Same in the south. Churches on every corner. Out in the countryside trailers are churches. Just people trying to make a living off of believers


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## kingslug (Nov 4, 2020)

You can get as drunk as you want there now..20 years ago it was strange..now..no problem...just don't ask them to make an old fashion for you..that turned out ...poorly


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 4, 2020)

Smellytele said:


> Same in the south. Churches on every corner. Out in the countryside trailers are churches. *Just people trying to make a living off of believers*



Another anti-religious spiel, but it makes no sense.  It would be cheaper for the Mormons to have fewer churches, less "dead end" real estate, and simply bigger churches than zillions of tiny churches.



kingslug said:


> You can get as drunk as you want there now..20 years ago it was strange..now..no problem...just don't ask them to make an old fashion for you..that turned out ...poorly



You cant have a home kegerator system. That is nuts.


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## Smellytele (Nov 4, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Another anti-religious spiel, but it makes no sense.  It would be cheaper for the Mormons to have fewer churches, less "dead end" real estate, and simply bigger churches than zillions of tiny churches.
> 
> 
> 
> You cant have a home kegerator system. That is nuts.



Not anti religion per say. Just some of the reverends are suspect in how religious they really are. 


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## kingslug (Nov 5, 2020)

My friend is part owner of a distillery..all the Gin you can drink..and it won best in country. 
Kegerator..I'de just build one from a fridge.


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## jimmywilson69 (Nov 5, 2020)

I'm guessing you can't buy kegs


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## jimk (Nov 5, 2020)

Take following with grain of salt because my knowledge of LDS is mostly from google:
The numerous LDS buildings I see every mile or so in Utah are actually chapels.  There are so many chapels because they serve as not only for religious reasons, but also social, cultural and recreational purposes.  They almost equate to LDS rec centers and many have indoor basketball courts, dance floors, and stages for plays or music performances.  The temples are the bigger pointy structures like the one in downtown SLC, these are for special rituals and far fewer of them exist.
PS:  it's true that kegs of beer are illegal in Utah or anything larger than two liters, unless you're an authorized beer retailer dispensing draft on the premises.

"but it seems like it owns space in your head."  Yeah, it seems like FBGM would be a better fit in CO or Tahoe?


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## kingslug (Nov 5, 2020)

In my past life..wife #1 House #2 I built a kegorator and figured the keg would last at least a few weeks..2 days..lots of people at the house all the time...finally put a contribution cup on it. 
Now that I don't drink , they're wacky laws wouldn't bother me.


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## FBGM (Nov 5, 2020)

jimmywilson69 said:


> I'm guessing you can't buy kegs



Nope. But Wyoming is 1hour away and I got one in the garage.


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## jaytrem (Nov 5, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Nope. But Wyoming is 1hour away and I got one in the garage.



Might have been on AZ where somebody told their WY/UT keg story?  Apparently they got a keg just over the border.  They suspect an off duty cop in the store called his UT cop buddy.  UT cop trailed the person for a long time until they had some lame excuse to pull them over.  Got arrested with the keg and had to deal with a boat load of legal nonsense.  

Just be careful!  Ridiculous law!


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## FBGM (Nov 5, 2020)

Back on topic...

2,800+ Covid cases today in Utah. Another daily high.


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## kingslug (Nov 5, 2020)

Think I'll take up friggin knitting..anyone need a hat.


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## jimk (Nov 5, 2020)

FBGM said:


> Back on topic...
> 
> 2,800+ Covid cases today in Utah. Another daily high.



Lets see, it's 5 days after the big Halloween blowouts:-(
Broke old one day infections record by 18%!


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 5, 2020)

kingslug said:


> *Kegerator..I'de just build one from a fridge.*



That's what I have.  Bought it used for $400 & it came with the regulator, tubing, CO2 tank, and even an empty keg to save $50 on the deposit.  Great deal.  But it's not that the actual machine (or homemade) is illegal, it's that kegs are illegal.



FBGM said:


> *Wyoming is 1hour away and I got one in the garage.*



I've heard it's something insane like a $2,000 fine if you get caught with a keg in Utah.  Talked to a guy in Wasatch Brew Pub last year & he told me on the way back from Wyoming he doesnt go home from Evanston on 80, but takes the long way back through the National Forest, which turns that 1 hour drive into a 2 hour drive, but that there are much fewer cops and not sting operations.  All this to have a simple flipping keg in your basement!


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## FBGM (Nov 6, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's what I have.  Bought it used for $400 & it came with the regulator, tubing, CO2 tank, and even an empty keg to save $50 on the deposit.  Great deal.  But it's not that the actual machine (or homemade) is illegal, it's that kegs are illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard it's something insane like a $2,000 fine if you get caught with a keg in Utah.  Talked to a guy in Wasatch Brew Pub last year & he told me on the way back from Wyoming he doesnt go home from Evanston on 80, but takes the long way back through the National Forest, which turns that 1 hour drive into a 2 hour drive, but that there are much fewer cops and not sting operations.  All this to have a simple flipping keg in your basement!



Haha yeah you could take Mirror Lake Highway back. Beautiful ride. Or you could take the dirt roads back into Coalville. Or you could just do the speed limit back on 80. 

I’m really not worried. I’ve done it so many times. I also drive that way to a work location few times a month. Lots of cops but they pick off trucks on 80 and idiots doing 20+ over the limit. 

I’ve also heard it’s not the fact of a keg, they get you on the tax. You’re buying something and getting tax in WY and bringing it to UT to avoid tax. But really Utah cops have better things to worry about then the random dude that likes tap beer instead of canned


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## FBGM (Nov 13, 2020)

4,000 cases yesterday. No slow down to be seen. People still don’t care. Starting to get worried about ski season.

On a positive note, 10-20” more snow incoming starting this evening. On top of 20-30” last weekend and some mid week.


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## kingslug (Nov 13, 2020)

At least you can skin up..we have nothing here yet and a possible lockdown coming.


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## BenedictGomez (Nov 14, 2020)

Has anything significantly & materially positive happened with Vail during this pandemic that I've missed?  I'm trying to figure out why the valuation is so much higher today than right before pre-pandemic levels.

Yes, I know the vaccine is the reason for the recent large spike, but even pre-vaccine Vail was trading right at its', "_What the heck is a coronavirus?_" price level.  Especially in light of the fact that very recently this board collectively seems to increasingly think (and I agree) that this season may be going south more (and potentially much more) than previously expected.   Asking for a friend who's considering going long puts on Monday.


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## Edd (Nov 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Has anything significantly & materially positive happened with Vail during this pandemic that I've missed?  I'm trying to figure out why the valuation is so much higher today than right before pre-pandemic levels.
> 
> Yes, I know the vaccine is the reason for the recent large spike, but even pre-vaccine Vail was trading right at its', "_What the heck is a coronavirus?_" price level.  Especially in light of the fact that very recently this board collectively seems to increasingly think (and I agree) that this season may be going south more (and potentially much more) than previously expected.   Asking for a friend who's considering going long puts on Monday.
> 
> View attachment 42569


Ski areas have indeed sold season passes this season so $ is coming in. Even in the case of deflated visits and decreased F&B revenue, if an area achieves the right blend of daily staffing and has some creative ideas....maybe the outlook is good?


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## Not Sure (Nov 14, 2020)

BenedictGomez said:


> Has anything significantly & materially positive happened with Vail during this pandemic that I've missed?
> 
> View attachment 42569


The hedge fund guys really like to ski .


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