# No more Noma' for the Red Sox



## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2004)

Nomar is gone.  Your thoughts?  Long overdue, like another great snowy winter (like 2000-1).


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## Charlie Schuessler (Aug 2, 2004)

Go Cubbies!!!!


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## ChileMass (Aug 2, 2004)

I guess $60 million over 4 years just wasn't enough love to keep Nomie in a Sox uniform, huh?  Can't say I feel bad for him at all.  Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz (check out the spelling!!) are a big upgrade......Sox probably can't catch the Yanks for the division, but they could do some damage as the wild card team........GO SOX!!


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## thetrailboss (Aug 2, 2004)

ChileMass said:
			
		

> I guess $60 million over 4 years just wasn't enough love to keep Nomie in a Sox uniform, huh?  Can't say I feel bad for him at all.  Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz (check out the spelling!!) are a big upgrade......Sox probably can't catch the Yanks for the division, but they could do some damage as the wild card team........GO SOX!!



Think of all the sacrifices that Nomar would have to make if he took that "cut" in pay.  What a joke!


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## SilentCal (Aug 2, 2004)

I really liked Nomar and wished he would have stayed with the Sox but management really bungled this one badly.    hmmmm  wouldn't it be interesting if both the Sox and Cubs meet now in the World Series.     


How many days until football begins?


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## MichaelJ (Aug 2, 2004)

He'd be gone at the end of the season - I'm sure that the Sox would not meet the terms that he'd be looking for. Better to have gotten something for him out of a trade rather than just having his contract expire and get picked up by another team.

Remember what happened to Lawyer Milloy - he just became a Buffalo Bill and the Patriots got nothing for it.

That cold analysis aside, it's a shame to see him gone. Nomar was synonymous with the Red Sox, and a lot of charitable organizations are going to lose with his departure (Nomar's Dunkin Dugout comes to mind). Will he wear a Sox uniform to Cooperstown someday? I think we'd have retired #5 if he stayed in Boston through retirement. Did he take his number with him?


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## Jaytrek57 (Aug 2, 2004)

A few points if I may...



> but management really bungled this one badly.



I disagree. Management went after arguably the best shortstop in the history of the game in Alex Rodriquez...this upset Nomar to no end. From what i have read, seen and heard...Nomar was a silent cancer in the locker room. I think this was a great move for the Sox b/c...Nomar was gone at the end of the season and trust me...he would have had that fake injury again come late August. 



> Remember what happened to Lawyer Milloy - he just became a Buffalo Bill and the Patriots got nothing for it



Um...the Pat's made up considerable money (salary cap) on letting Milloy go. Also...THE PATRIOT's WON THE SUPERBOWL w/o Milloy.

I love sports talk...evryone has an opinion! :beer:


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## Charlie Schuessler (Aug 2, 2004)

As a Red Sox fan, I enjoyed Nomar as a player.  Apparently without REAL COMPENSATION Nomar wasn't going to stay here and deal with the Boston Press and Red Sox Management especially with the Alex Rodriquez fiasco this winter.  The man has pride... he was kept in the minors for nearly two years because of Johnny "Turtle Speed" Valentine.  Nomar waited his turn in the minors.  He played by the rules under the old & new ownership.  How many incompetent field Managers did he play for?  Except for injuries, the man played better than everyone else did on the team.  The man deserved the dough!

He can hit, drive in the runs, field, and run the bases.  He kept his mouth shut and doesn’t say nasty things about his teammates, unlike Kevin "Stone Hands-Weak Bat-No Brains" Millar.  Yeh, Cowboy this !@#$!

Although I may seem peeved about this, I’m not.  I’m glad the undermining of a very good ball player is over.   He is wearing No. 8 in Chicago.

Regarding the World Series, I think the Cub's may make it to the World Series because they have a good field manager, and the Red Sox don't.

Go Cubbies!


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## ChileMass (Aug 3, 2004)

*Professor Chile's Red Sox Analysis 101 - *

The problem with the Sox is twofold - the star system that Tom Yawkey created going back to 1934, and the unqualified love we faithful Sox fans give these star players.  Let me explain:

The Yawkey/Harrington/Duquette junta installed and perpetuated a system for decades that focused on big-name star players that were supposed to win a championship perhaps by force of personality if not baseball skills.  Each of these players that were so much counted upon to bring a Series title (Ted, Yaz, Lynn, Rice, Fisk, Boggs, Roger, Mo, Pedro, Nomah, Manny) was unfortunately flawed in some critical element of the game (Ted was a lousy outfielder and couldn't run, Lynn got hurt all the time, Roger never showed up in the BIG games, Mo/Pedro/Nomar/Manny are just in it for the money, etc), and each became (if they weren't already when they got here) an egomaniac based on the preferential treatment given them by the Sox ownership.  Not only did this cause these players to play only when they felt like it, but it also generated season after season of resentment among their teammates.  Add to this the overwhelming focus, adoration and destiny we fans saddle these guys with, and it's a toxic combination.  These guys are just jocks after all - it's a pretty rare ballplayer that can handle the burden of an entire region and carry it off (think Cal Ripken).  Note also that the Yankees would never put up with this, and that's why they always win the big games and the Series.  That and the fact that they have always had the lefty starter the Sox lacked.  The Yanks have put together decades of TEAMS with a few stars, and you'll notice that while years of Sox' teams have led the AL in hitting and finished 3rd, the Yanks finish about in the middle of the pack each year in hitting and win it all.   

Theo is trying to put together a team without the "star-system" baggage and you will see more of this in the next couple of years.  Yes, he has a budget that John Henry makes him abide by, but the Sox will continue to be in the upper end of the MLB salary spenders.  Don't be surprised to see Manny discussed in trade talks again this winter, because the Sox have to somehow get rid of that big contract (Thanks, Dan Duquette).  You will see more and more players on the Sox next year that you may never have heard of, but trust Theo - he knows what he's doing.  No one had ever heard of Tino Martinez or Bernie Williams or Jorge Posada before 1996, either, and the new Sox stars will be just as good in the future (I hope).........


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## Charlie Schuessler (Aug 3, 2004)

Very astute observations and remarks gentlemen...


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## Charlie Schuessler (Aug 3, 2004)

uphillklimber said:
			
		

> Look at basketball. Current champions have Chancey Billips, who Rick Pitino let go. Danny Ainge is axing others.



ESPN is reporting that the Dallas Mavericks are trading Antoine Walker & Tony Delk to the Atalanta Hawks.  I'm not sure Ainge was all wrong....is he an NBA version of a Moneyball manager?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 4, 2004)

Yes, good discussion.  Very good points.


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## mryan (Aug 4, 2004)

who cares?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 4, 2004)

mryan said:
			
		

> who cares?



So why did you read this thread, mryan?


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## mryan (Aug 4, 2004)

because i wanted to voice my opinion. is that ok with you?


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## thetrailboss (Aug 5, 2004)

*Now if only...*

...swapping season passes were as easy as this.  "I'll give you my ASC pass for that Jay pass..."

 :wink:


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## smitty77 (Aug 6, 2004)

Moving Nomar was a sound decision.  No Boston sports team ever gets into a bidding war over free agency, and I'm sure the Sox figured someone was going to offer up some big coin for Nomar at the end of the season.  Better to get someone in trade now than end up with nothing later.  Now, if only they packaged Francona in that deal....  :roll: 

As for Lawyer Milloy, wasn't he looking for a restructured contract before he was put on waivers?  The team doesn't make the playoffs and he wants a better deal?  Please.  I think the Pats wanted to squash his "me first" attitude before it spread through the locker room.  How's that second championship ring fit you, Lawyer?   :wink: 

Things look pretty good for the Pats this year, and they went and added stubblefield.


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## Jaytrek57 (Aug 6, 2004)

Smitty--Good points.

If memory serves Milloy was locked in at a contract, but the Patriot's wanted him to restructure his contract to make space available under the salary cap. Unlike most "team" players who restructure to improve the team...well...you know the rest. BTW…restructuring happens ALL the time in football. 

One thing I like about football as oppose to baseball/basketball is that in football there is rarely guaranteed contracts. In simple terms…you can be let go for any reason. This gives players quite the incentive to do well.

MHO…collective bargaining and the MLB Player’s Union has for the most part been pretty detrimental to the sport of baseball.   

Here’s a 180 for everyone. I don’t begrudge any professional athlete the salaries they get paid. If someone is to offer me millions of dollars for my chosen profession…I for one am not going to turn it down and it is in my best interest to get the most money from my profession that I see fit or I deem acceptable. Yes…there are many factors (love of job, lifestyle, etc.). Athletes are able to command these salaries...b/c...believe or not...that is what we the fans are willing to pay (tickets, merchandise, TV contracts, etc.)

In the end…it is the essence of sports and what makes watching them so great…the ability to coach, manage, second guess and give opinions all from the comfort of our couches or barstools!!    :beer:


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## smitty77 (Aug 6, 2004)

uphillklimber said:
			
		

> Sure, it is fun to degrade Lawyer Milloy, but look at what he has done and for how much. He just wanted his piece of the pie.



Missing the playoffs after a championship year = No Pie for anyone.  Being a team captain, Lawyer thought he was "safe".  If it was a wake-up call for the team, then it worked.


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