# Bruised Toes



## penguin (Dec 30, 2003)

Hi!

Exactly how tightly are ski boots supposed to fit?  I went to a professional ski shop and was fitted with women's Dalbello boots last year, and ended up with 2 badly bruised big toes because my boots seemed too tight.  The shop was insistent that the boots would stretch and that these were the right size.  I have only skiied twice this year and my toes are bruised again...  Are my boots too tight or what else can I do?

Any advice anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!


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## Greg (Dec 30, 2003)

Ski boots are supposed to be rather snug so it's hard to tell if yours are too small. Be sure your toenails are trimmed short, that you're wearing thin ski socks, and perhaps try loosening the toe buckles a bit.


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## Joshua B (Dec 30, 2003)

I have good room in my boots and my toes still bruise--not visibly, but they feel sensitive. I use my toes for precision control. When I land small jumps there's also added pressure on my toes. So I know what you mean. 

When I went to a bootfitter in Stowe, VT, the sales associate also tried to put me into a smaller boot than my shoe size. I think these guys weigh control over comfort.


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## jimme (Dec 30, 2003)

penguin said:
			
		

> Hi!
> 
> Exactly how tightly are ski boots supposed to fit?  I went to a professional ski shop and was fitted with women's Dalbello boots last year, and ended up with 2 badly bruised big toes because my boots seemed too tight.  The shop was insistent that the boots would stretch and that these were the right size.  I have only skiied twice this year and my toes are bruised again...  Are my boots too tight or what else can I do?
> 
> ...



I should write a book on this. In short I bought boots out of state. Even with unlimited boot fitting, it was still a two hour drive to get to the shop. First advice. Buy close to home, or near where you ski most often.

When you take off the boots, use a felt tip marker and circle the sore spots. Go back to the shop and have the bootfitter make the adjustments. They can look at your feet and then modify the boot and the liner. If boot-fitting was not included in the cost of the boots, consider a fitting session. You must've spent at leat a couple of hundred dollars and they shoould be willing to make it fit right. But, also remember that it will take at least 10 full days of wearing the boots for them to "pack out." But to me, brusing on the toes is just not right.

The rule of thumb is that you put your foot into the boot shell with the liner removed. You should be able to fit not more than your first two fingers between the back of your foot and the boot shell. If you can, the shell is too big. I understand that for racers, the tolerance is one finger or less. But, racers usually don't wear their race boots all day either.

If you're daring enough to take an X-acto knife to your liner, what I've seen bootfitters do is slice the liner and take out a bit of material at the points that are too tight.

Jimme


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## nrthest (Dec 30, 2003)

penguin... welcome to the boards!

youch the bruised toes sound painful.

maybe start by flogging the salesperson?

just kidding.

sounds like your boots need to be heat-stretched if possible, but I'm no pro there.


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## jlangdale (Dec 30, 2003)

I've got very old Rossy boots I got back at Mount Snow in 97.  I think you should get them new very tight and they will loosen up.  You don't want them too loose so that when they loosen up there's too much room.  My boots are perfect, they're a little loose by the end of the day and I can wear them all day.  I'm almost afraid to get newer boots because they might not fit as well.


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## Joshua B (Dec 30, 2003)

Intersting. 

So in general, do most of the skiers on this board have regular discomfort in their toes at the end of the day, or are they absolutely fine?


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## RISkier (Dec 30, 2003)

*Bruised toes*

I've mostly read that if boots are too loose, you can slam your toes into the boot and get the dreaded black toe.  I don't think boots should be so tight that (unless perhaps for a racer) they would bruise toes.  Are your toes discolored, or do they merely hurt a bit at the end of a day?  If the latter, they'll likely pack out and be fine, if the former, I think you need to go back to the folks you bought them from and show them your bruised toes.  My better half had a pair of heads that were killing her instep -- so much they left her foot numb.  After trying to modify them, the folks at the store just fit her into a different boot.  At first, she thought it felt too snug, but no real pain.  After she's skied on them a couple of days they seem to work great.  Some boots just aren't made for some feet, and vice versa.


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## Greg (Dec 30, 2003)

uphillklimber said:
			
		

> I now have new ones


Boots or toenails?  :wink:


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## oldhippie (Dec 30, 2003)

*No more boot pain.*

Penguin, welcome to the board!  

I'm no expert, so everything I say below is strictly a well read amateurs opinions that has 40 years experience.

Boot pain is bad.  Very bad.  You can't have fun, when you are in pain.  Don't live with ill fitting boots, you won't have fun and eventually you'll quit. (and who could blame you?)

Having said all that, it may be that your boots size is okay, but that you are either buckling them too tightly on the bottom two buckles (toe box) or, that your toes are being pushed hard into the front of the toe box because your heels are not locked into the heel pockets, or because the boots are just too long or loose in the heel/ankle area.

Do either of the above two possibilities sound plausible for your situation?

I buckle my bottom two buckles as loosely as possible.. any looser and they would just flap around.. sometimes they do.  I don't buckle the others two much tighter.. and I am still fine, all day long, no need to even unbuckle them at lunch.  They are Dabello V8s.  

I am convinced that boot fitting is 50% pure luck and 50% black art.  You have to understand the shape of your foot and the volume and typical shape of the manufacturers mold.  I bought the Dalbellos cause I got a good deal on them, so I really took a chance, but I've always liked the way Technicas fit, even the low end ones.  I think Langes are for people with high arch, thin feet.  Some fo the new "soft boots" look very interesting.

Find a good bootfitter.  I'm not sure where your from, but ask around.  Find a good boot fitter and ask them if they'll work with you.. they will if you ask nicely.  If all else fails, get new boots, from a local place, from a good boot fitter and make sure they'll work with you to get them right or put you in another boot till you are smiling ear to ear.

You also haven't given us much to go on.  Are you a beginner or intermediate or have you been skiing for a while?   What size shoes do you susually wear and what size boots are you in?  

PAIN? It doesn't have to be that way and it shouldn't be that way.


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## riverc0il (Dec 31, 2003)

Joshua B said:
			
		

> Intersting.
> 
> So in general, do most of the skiers on this board have regular discomfort in their toes at the end of the day, or are they absolutely fine?


none here.  my bootfitter fit my boots snug, but without any discomfort.  if you're experiencing bruising, the boots probably aren't fit correctly (either too tight OR too loose could cause that bang bruising i believe).  while new boots should be rather tight so they pack out correctly, no boot should be causing extreme discomfort and bruising i don't think (unless you are a racer as previuosly mentioned, who only buckle those suckers down for racing).


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## ChileMass (Dec 31, 2003)

Never have toe problems - my issue is getting the skin chafed off my calves because I like to crank down the top 2 buckles.  The sides of my feet get achy too on almost every run, because as a former racer, I still prefer my boots cranked.  Wow - you guys have lots of interesting stories of boot-fitting, etc.  I have been skiing since I was a kid and just sort of put up with the fact that all ski boots hurt, it's just a matter of how much.  Question - if I have a pair of boots I have been skiing on for a couple years, is it still feasible to get them "retro-fitted" to my feet?  Obviously, they are well-broken in overall, but there are still some pressure points, and I have to unbuckle my boots fully in the liftline on every run - I'd be happy to be able to avoid this.  Any suggestions?


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## jlangdale (Dec 31, 2003)

I'd have say simply, if your foot is moving forward or backwards then the boot is too big.  Alternatively, when the boot is fitted correctly and loosens up, there will be some movement, side-to-side and wiggle room, general comfort but not enough that your foot moves forward or backward, causing toe injury.


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## Coral Sea (Jan 1, 2004)

*Bruised Toenails*

I  have Nordica ski boots that are slightly too narrow in the toe area.  Usually, this does not create a problem unless I'm skiing in powder or sometimes moguls when I tend to lean back a bit.  When I do this, I bruise my big toenails (subungual hematoma) because of them pressing against the top of the boots.  I just returned from my first ski trip of the season (went to Fernie, B.C.) and, you guessed it, bruised my right big toenail about 70% and a little on the left big toenail.  Luckily, I managed to get in three days of skiing although I had planned for four...couldn't stand the pain of putting on the ski boots after bruising the toes.

I will probably take these boots into the shop and have them create a bit more space in the toe area (I hope that's possible).  The bruising has really become a problem in the last three to four years although I've had these boots for five to six years now (maybe longer, maybe a lot longer...I've lost track of when I bought them).

Last year I had the bruised toenail drained.  Not sure if I'll do that this time.  I've read mixed reviews on the Web about whether draining is a good idea or not.  In my case, the draining eased the pain a little bit although I didn't have that throbbing, keeps you awake at night type of pain anyway.  It didn't ease it enough that I could ski comfortably, though.


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## oldhippie (Jan 1, 2004)

>>> 





> and, you guessed it, bruised my right big toenail about 70% and a little on the left big toenail. Luckily, I managed to get in three days of skiing although I had planned for four...couldn't stand the pain of putting on the ski boots after bruising the toes.



Bummer.  That whole story would be telling me it is time for some nice new booties.  Look around for advice on boots with some good toe box volume and find a good bootfitter.  Stop dealing with bad fitting boots.  Yuck!


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## penguin (Jan 5, 2004)

Hi Everyone!   

Thank you so much for your feedback.  I took my boots back to the ski shop where I originally purchased them and the boot fitter is going to stretch the outer hard plastic of the boot a few mm wider in the toebox.  He also recommended some $35 insoles for better arch/foot support.  I'm not sure how widening my boot will ease my toe problem, since it seems to be a front-to-back shortage in my boot liner, where my toes are hitting the front of my liner even when I take my liner out of my boot, even if I'm leaning forward as I would be skiing....

I'm not sure who asked for more details, but in response I have Women's Dalbello boots and I'm a ski boot size 24.5, normal shoe size 7.5.

-Penguin


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## shortski (Jan 5, 2004)

Two suggestions, get fitted foot custom foot beds and cut your toenails .


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2004)

shortski said:
			
		

> get fitted foot custom foot beds.


Who else has custom footbeds? A friend of mine swears by them. I use the Superfeet Synergizer model footbed, but are customs really the only way to go?


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## shortski (Jan 5, 2004)

Custom foot beds will help with the stabilization of the foot. The footbed will be fitted to support the arch of the foot which should minimize any forward movement of the foot, also as suggested, maybe adding a little padding to the heal to lock the heel in place.


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## Joshua B (Jan 5, 2004)

I buckled my boots when I last skied Friday night, and guess what? Much less toe pain. My big toes were just a bit sensitive, but much less than usual. I even got higher with my jumps. Thanks for the good advice!


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## penguin (Jan 5, 2004)

Ok, where can I get custom footbeds, and how much will they cost?


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## Greg (Jan 5, 2004)

penguin said:
			
		

> Ok, where can I get custom footbeds, and how much will they cost?


Most good shops can do them. They're about $80 - $100.


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## ChileMass (Jan 5, 2004)

Folks - never got a response to my earlier question - if I have been skiing on a pair of boots for approx 3 seasons, is it too late to have them custom-fitted for my feet?  Since they are pretty well broken in, are they already as molded to my feet as they are likely to get?  Will $100 cover the cost?


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## shortski (Jan 5, 2004)

ChileMass said:
			
		

> I have been skiing on a pair of boots for approx 3 seasons, is it too late to have them custom-fitted for my feet?  Since they are pretty well broken in, are they already as molded to my feet as they are likely to get?  Will $100 cover the cost?



It depends on how many days you skied them and how you ski. If the bladders are worn you may have to replqace the bladders, have custom beds put in and have them fitted. Lesss than $100, I rather doubt it.


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## snowsprite (Jan 5, 2004)

My big toe only hurts a bit if I've been skiing powder or slushy spring-type conditions because I am skiing w/ tips "up" but otherwise I honestly do not experience foot pain at the end of the day w/ these boots. I think you might need to be re-fitted. Good luck!
Sprite


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## Coral Sea (Jan 5, 2004)

penguin said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how widening my boot will ease my toe problem, since it seems to be a front-to-back shortage in my boot liner, where my toes are hitting the front of my liner even when I take my liner out of my boot, even if I'm leaning forward as I would be skiing....
> -Penguin



With the liners out of the shells and your toes touching the front of the shells, you should be able to get two fingers between your heel and the heel of the boot.  If you can't, then the boots are probably too short.

I just took my boots in to have them stretched wider and higher in the toe box.  The length seems to be okay.  I'm hoping this works.

I keep my toe nails trimmed where normal weight ski socks.  Also, I have tried wearing a Band-Aid (the thicker fabric type, not the plastic ones that are quite thin) with the pad over the toe nail.  That seems to work for me a little because the bruising seems to be caused by my toe nail pressing against the top of the toe box.

Good luck with your mods.


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## gamine224 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Ouch, My Toe is Blue Too*

I bought a pair of boots late last spring and didn't ski on them much. The shop had very few (or no!) boots left in my size and they sold me a youth racing boot (I am a 52 year old petite lady). This year after my first day out my toes were very numb. I had the toe box widened, no help. I had the big toe blown out, no help. After 3 unhappy days at Copper Mountain with a trip to Surefoot each day, I  insisted on new boots. My new boots are Ladies' boots, they feel great and I am finally happy. But what do I do about my toe? It's swollen, ugly and getting numb.

PS: I wear custom footbeds and LOVE them. And Surefoot gave me full credit for the first pair.


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## oldhippie (Jan 8, 2004)

>>> (I am a 52 year old petite lady). <<< 

...sounding pretty nice to me!!

>>> But what do I do about my toe? It's swollen, ugly and getting numb. <<<

I don't mind if you don't mind! 

LOL!!!  I'm sorry, I am usually a perfect gentleman, but I just couldn't help myself.  

Seriously, hopefully it will heal and get back to normal within a few days.  Good for you on insisting on good fitting boots!


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## Coral Sea (Mar 15, 2004)

*Stretched Boots Help*

Had my boots stretched wider and higher in the toe box and it helped quite a bit.  My big toes still take a pounding in the rough stuff but nearly as bad as before.  Might get the left one stretched a little bit more next season or at the end of this one.


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## bigbog (Mar 16, 2004)

*re: boot problems...*

Hi Penguin,
 Always ski with your toes relaxed and lying flat, straight ahead...up a bit when needed, but NOT the curled, gripping atatus that tightens all your ligaments.  Try your initial choice of inexpensive, carboard/rubber insoles, but believe me...as shortski noted, the durable plastic is what most people use..much more solid support for where your feet NEED it!....under:1) inside edge of heel; 2) arch; 3) inside edge- ball of foot.... although later on, when you know what's dialed in..cork is also a choice....and I'll tell you, it really is the tip of my footbed (at the very bottom)....that takes some of the brunt of hitting either the low end of the liner or that plus the inside of the shell.  The many boot models differ essentially in the amount of volume(over instep & forefoot) and width of heel and/or forefoot toe box..but it is plastic and usually where there's a will, there's a way...stretching a shell isn't a problem for a skilled fitter!  
What can often happen is that for some reason, your heel is either being pushed or is sliding forward, out of the heel pocket....and that can spell serious toe crunchtime!!!...so take a look there, if you have a thin heel and IF the heel pockets of the boots are big, you can have a bootfitter add padding onto the outside of the liner...to hold you Back! and the toe bang thing should cease...So take a look at the fit in the heel...that'll hint at what the problem might be...but if you hven't used a footbed, the chance is that your foot is rolling around a bit, as well as forward slightly....the footbed will help and should stabilize everything ....in whatever boot you get...

  $.02


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