# Buying used skis



## Ragman (Oct 18, 2014)

Hello all,

  Im in the market for some used skis.  Been searching the web (ebay,craigslist,EVO) and my question is, how do you know if you will need to get the bindings redrilled or not?   I mean with most of the skis with bindings they dont tell you what size boot the bindings were set for.

  Is it bad to redrill skis for binding movement?

  Ive found many packages out there that I am hesitant to bite on because the ski length Im looking at (165 or so) doesnt usually come with a binding for my monster boot size (12) - I guess Im a freak.

  ANy help would be great.

Thanks guys.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 18, 2014)

Your easiest solution is to try and find skis mounted with demo bindings.

I've always been told that re-drilling once isn't that big of a deal.  Beyond that and you will start to compromise the core of the ski.


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## tree_skier (Oct 18, 2014)

One redrilling isn't normally a problem.  Also if the ski has a plate then the holes are already there.


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## skiNEwhere (Oct 18, 2014)

I have a size 12.5 foot. For ski boot I have a 29.5, which is pretty normal.

I'm not a binding guru, but it depends on what bindings you get. If you were to buy look pivots, I don't think you can really adjust those, so you'd probably have to get those remounted.

With some bindings, you can move both  the toe piece and heel piece forward and back. With more high performance bindings, you can only move the heel piece.

With all bindings, I'd find out what size boot they were using.

If you post some of the listings you find here, we'd probably be able to help you out more though.


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## Ragman (Oct 18, 2014)

skiNEwhere said:


> I have a size 12.5 foot. For ski boot I have a 29.5, which is pretty normal.
> 
> I'm not a binding guru, but it depends on what bindings you get. If you were to buy look pivots, I don't think you can really adjust those, so you'd probably have to get those remounted.
> 
> ...



Well looking at packages and stumbled across a site called levelninesports.com and was wondering if this package would be good for me.  Fischer Viron Fire/Dalbello Prime Complete Ski Package

Sale: $339.00
Retail: $799.00	
Save 57%

I would be a little nervous buying boots without trying them on first tho


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## spring_mountain_high (Oct 18, 2014)

yes.

i have also been considering a set of used demos...anyone ever gone that route?


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## deadheadskier (Oct 18, 2014)

Buy skis used online, not boots.  

Every boot manufacturer is different.  It's worth to try on several boots even if it costs you a few extra bucks.


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## Northernflight (Oct 18, 2014)

I've used Liquidation Sports on ebay for skis and have not had a problem with them. I was hesitant to purchase skis over Craigslist as there is a lot less accountability should the skis be faulty. Demo bindings on my last pair of skis worked great and I could not feel that much of a difference compared to non-demo bindings. Just picked up another pair of skis from them last month!

Some ski shops also carry used skis, so I would say go look around your local shop and see if they have anything. I picked up a pair of used Head Slalom skis from Speed Factory by Waterville. I have been using them for the the past two years and they are still going strong.


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## Ragman (Oct 18, 2014)

Northernflight said:


> I've used Liquidation Sports on ebay for skis and have not had a problem with them. I was hesitant to purchase skis over Craigslist as there is a lot less accountability should the skis be faulty. Demo bindings on my last pair of skis worked great and I could not feel that much of a difference compared to non-demo bindings. Just picked up another pair of skis from them last month!
> 
> Some ski shops also carry used skis, so I would say go look around your local shop and see if they have anything. I picked up a pair of used Head Slalom skis from Speed Factory by Waterville. I have been using them for the the past two years and they are still going strong.



Im liking the prices on liquidation sports.  What were the grade of the skis you bought from them?  WOndered how hammered the S or Standard ones were?


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## thetrailboss (Oct 18, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Well looking at packages and stumbled across a site called levelninesports.com and was wondering if this package would be good for me.  Fischer Viron Fire/Dalbello Prime Complete Ski Package
> 
> Sale: $339.00
> Retail: $799.00
> ...



I was going to suggest that you consider Level Nine or some other online retailers. The reason being is that I find that people overvalue their used equipment and you normally end up paying way too much for stuff.  That's just my opinion though. I know some people have found some great deals on used stuff but it seems every year that I go to ski swaps I become increasingly disappointed in how people want $500 for their skis that are trashed. Must be I'm going to the wrong ski swaps. Level Nine is legit. This is another good shop: http://www.ebay.com/usr/asogear?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


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## HowieT2 (Oct 19, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I was going to suggest that you consider Level Nine or some other online retailers. The reason being is that I find that people overvalue their used equipment and you normally end up paying way too much for stuff.  That's just my opinion though. I know some people have found some great deals on used stuff but it seems every year that I go to ski swaps I become increasingly disappointed in how people want $500 for their skis that are trashed. Must be I'm going to the wrong ski swaps. Level Nine is legit. This is another good shop: http://www.ebay.com/usr/asogear?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



same here.  
I've bought used or demo gear in the past, but in the last 5 years or so, the discounts on new ski/bindings, have led me to purchase new. Obviously, I wasn't purchasing in season and I spent a fair amount of time researching.  But my impression of the market is that, with a little effort you can find new for modestly more than used.


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## Savemeasammy (Oct 19, 2014)

I agree on some of the prices people want for their used gear.  Many people pay full retail or close to it for their equipment, and base the asking price on that.  I bought my (then) current model year skis in Feb for 50% off.  Same deal for my brand-new previous years' bindings.   I can't see paying more than 30% or so for fairly "new" used stuff.  Much less as it gets older.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Not Sure (Oct 19, 2014)

spring_mountain_high said:


> yes.
> 
> i have also been considering a set of used demos...anyone ever gone that route?



Yes, hadn't bought skis in a long time and wasn't sure which would be a good bump ski. 
And didn't want to roll the dice spending $ on a new pair without driving a set , was an end of season decision and no opportunity to try out another set . Ended up getting a demo set of Rossi B-2's 

I'm an aggressive skier and had heel blowout issues with Demo bindings
Loved the skis but not the bindings , got some marker Dukes
And have had no issues, also lucked out with a set of Dallbello boots,

I would do Demos again , but odds on finding boots are not good


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## Scruffy (Oct 19, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I was going to suggest that you consider Level Nine or some other online retailers. The reason being is that I find that people overvalue their used equipment and you normally end up paying way too much for stuff.  That's just my opinion though. I know some people have found some great deals on used stuff but it seems every year that I go to ski swaps I become increasingly disappointed in how people want $500 for their skis that are trashed. Must be I'm going to the wrong ski swaps. Level Nine is legit. This is another good shop: http://www.ebay.com/usr/asogear?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



Yeah, you have to know what your looking for and the value of it, to score used, no matter the venue.

The problem the OP has, if you follow the other thread he created about getting back into skiing after 20 years, is, by his own admission, he doesn't know yet what to look for, and price is important to him - he's buying for himself and his son.


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## dlague (Oct 19, 2014)

Rahman - I agree with the used skis with demo bindings.  Hence why I pointed out the used skis on Evo in another thread.  They had demo bindings.


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## dlague (Oct 19, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I was going to suggest that you consider Level Nine or some other online retailers. The reason being is that I find that people overvalue their used equipment and you normally end up paying way too much for stuff.  That's just my opinion though. I know some people have found some great deals on used stuff but it seems every year that I go to ski swaps I become increasingly disappointed in how people want $500 for their skis that are trashed. Must be I'm going to the wrong ski swaps. Level Nine is legit. This is another good shop: http://www.ebay.com/usr/asogear?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



Just scored a great deal on a pair if ski boots for my wife @ aso gear!  And yes I buy boots online.  To TB's point online retailers are an easy way to go since you do not have to drive anywhere and can see and research a lot.  I find it to be a great way to learn about gear.


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

You guys are great.  I really do appreciate the feedback I am getting here.  As you can probably tell I am VERY excited to get back on the slopes and I would love to just buy my season pass, drive to the hill bringing my own equipment and start skiing.

I remember from back in the day when I rented I would burn about an hr getting my lift ticket and getting my rentals.  Time is more precious to me now.

So what Im trying to say is your input is priceless to me.

Thank you.  

So Im going to look more into Liquidationsports and EVO used.  Just would like to find out about the bindings and whether or not they will need to redrilled.


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## dlague (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> You guys are great.  I really do appreciate the feedback I am getting here.  As you can probably tell I am VERY excited to get back on the slopes and I would love to just buy my season pass, drive to the hill bringing my own equipment and start skiing.
> 
> I remember from back in the day when I rented I would burn about an hr getting my lift ticket and getting my rentals.  Time is more precious to me now.
> 
> ...



If they have demo bindings you should good since they are designed to be adjusted several sizes.  My advise, call Evo - fun to talk to and they will let you know everything you need to know.


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## spring_mountain_high (Oct 19, 2014)

Northernflight said:


> I've used Liquidation Sports on ebay for skis and have not had a problem with them. I was hesitant to purchase skis over Craigslist as there is a lot less accountability should the skis be faulty. Demo bindings on my last pair of skis worked great and I could not feel that much of a difference compared to non-demo bindings. Just picked up another pair of skis from them last month!
> 
> Some ski shops also carry used skis, so I would say go look around your local shop and see if they have anything. I picked up a pair of used Head Slalom skis from Speed Factory by Waterville. I have been using them for the the past two years and they are still going strong.



i was checking these guys out...thanks for the info


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## prsboogie (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> You guys are great.  I really do appreciate the feedback I am getting here.  As you can probably tell I am VERY excited to get back on the slopes and I would love to just buy my season pass, drive to the hill bringing my own equipment and start skiing.
> 
> I remember from back in the day when I rented I would burn about an hr getting my lift ticket and getting my rentals.  Time is more precious to me now.
> 
> ...



Ragman, I am a recent return to skiing guy and the first skis I bought were system skis. The bindings adjust to all adult bsl and they can be picked up for a reasonable price. K2 Atomic Völkl off the top of my head all have what your looking for. They are very easy to mount your self as well with many resources online to figure out what din to set for your height weight and ability. A little more than used, but worth it.


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

prsboogie said:


> Ragman, I am a recent return to skiing guy and the first skis I bought were system skis. The bindings adjust to all adult bsl and they can be picked up for a reasonable price. K2 Atomic Völkl off the top of my head all have what your looking for. They are very easy to mount your self as well with many resources online to figure out what din to set for your height weight and ability. A little more than used, but worth it.



When you say "system skis"  do you mean rentals?  or demos?  Im not too familiar with the lingo.


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## goldsbar (Oct 19, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I know some people have found some great deals on used stuff but it seems every year that I go to ski swaps I become increasingly disappointed in how people want $500 for their skis that are trashed.



There's a local ski shop that has a room full of crap (I mean used skis) that they're selling for several hundred a pair.  Not last seasons lightly used stuff.  We're talking early stuff that's a decade old.  You can buy brand new in the wrapper (but a couple of model years old) skis for that price!


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 19, 2014)

I've bought from Sportandski (another one of the larger EBAY demo ski sellers) and had no issues.   Only thing I didnt like is they wont adjust the bindings for you before shipping (probably legal fears), whereas others have done that for me.

Honestly, as long as you know what you're doing I highly recommend buying used skis on EBAY.    It's not atypical to find rigs that would have been $800 to $1000 in a shop, selling for $250 to $400 with a season or two on them.  Even better if you can find a nice set for sale on EBAY from John Q. Public.


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## prsboogie (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> When you say "system skis"  do you mean rentals?  or demos?  Im not too familiar with the lingo.



The skis have a rail type system built in and they come with specific bindings that slide onto those rails. 
 http://m.sportsauthority.com/ATOMI...96&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=45-2978429-2


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

prsboogie said:


> The skis have a rail type system built in and they come with specific bindings that slide onto those rails.
> http://m.sportsauthority.com/ATOMI...96&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=45-2978429-2



Oh so thats why they have "Rail" skis?  The guy at the local used shop was trying to steer me towards a pair of Volki Demo skis that that this 'Rail" system.  He made it sound like the rails were there to get better or more edge when carving.

So is there any advantage to Rail skis besides the way the bindings slide on?


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## bigbog (Oct 19, 2014)

spring_mountain_high said:


> yes.
> 
> i have also been considering a set of used demos...anyone ever gone that route?


Those with a system binding are often pretty good.  Bought a short carver last = had plenty of pop...fwiw.
When talking sizing... "bsl" (bootsole length..in "mm") ..


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## prsboogie (Oct 19, 2014)

They say it allows the ski to flex a little more under foot. Not sure about more edge but I guess it could be true. Its just another option for you to look at.


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

bigbog said:


> Advantage?..beats me Ragman.  With carvers(frontside..)  Since the Mesozoic Age;-)..I haven't found a need to really get as close as possible to the ski..YET, unlike a wider ski.  A little height will offer a little more anglulation possiblities..  You'll enjoy it.
> $.01




Yeah, the guy showed me how the bindings were raised off the ski a bit, dont remember what he said that does - if anything.  Seems to me- and this is coming from someone who doesnt know much about it - that a raised binding would make balance a little more of an issue.


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## Highway Star (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Im in the market for some used skis.  Been searching the web (ebay,craigslist,EVO) and my question is, how do you know if you will need to get the bindings redrilled or not?   I mean with most of the skis with bindings they dont tell you what size boot the bindings were set for.
> 
> ...



I would steer you away from demo skis, they may have been abused, skied out, and/or over tuned, and the bindings are designed to be adjusted quickly, so they end up being heavier, flex more, and are taller.  System bindings can be adjusted to any boot size.  If you ending up having to remount (by drilling) from a smaller boot size, the old holes will be inside the footprint of the new holes, which means no impact on the strength of the ski.  Comments about some used gear being overpriced are true, the only stuff that holds it's value is really popular high end equipment that is hard to get at discount.

I find that evo.com is extremely overpriced lately, along with backcountry/steep and cheap.   Many of the smaller retailers have better pricing - I like alpinebaseandedge and skiessentials.  Signup for emails, many shops float their prices to move stock to make their cash flow for the month.  Also look for coupons at other sources, like magazines.  Sierratradingpost has good closeout deals, but only with their email coupons.  You should be able to find a pretty nice new upper intermediate to advanced ski/binding for $300-400.  

When you buy boots at a shop, get them to throw in the binding mount for free on your "existing" skis (don't tell them you just bought them online).  Otherwise expect to pay $50 for a mount.


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## Smellytele (Oct 19, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> I find that evo.com is extremely overpriced lately, along with backcountry/steep and cheap.   Many of the smaller retailers have better pricing - I like alpinebaseandedge and skiessentials.  Signup for emails, many shops float their prices to move stock to make their cash flow for the month.  Also look for coupons at other sources, like magazines.  Sierratradingpost has good closeout deals, but only with their email coupons.



levelninesports.com has some good deals as well but are limited in selection.


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## Highway Star (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Well looking at packages and stumbled across a site called levelninesports.com and was wondering if this package would be good for me.  Fischer Viron Fire/Dalbello Prime Complete Ski Package
> 
> Sale: $339.00
> Retail: $799.00
> ...



Those fishers are very low end.  Check out these blizzards on closeout for under $300:

http://www.skiessentials.com/outlet/2012-blizzard-magnum-7-6-iq-skis-w-iq-tp-11-bindings.html


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## wa-loaf (Oct 19, 2014)

I've just discovered the House as a good source for new gear at a good price. http://www.the-house.com/


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## dlague (Oct 19, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> I've just discovered the House as a good source for new gear at a good price. http://www.the-house.com/



They sell a couple weird ski brands for low dollars - Sierra and Teton.  Anyone ever bought those?


.......


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## wa-loaf (Oct 19, 2014)

dlague said:


> They sell a couple weird ski brands for low dollars - Sierra and Teton.  Anyone ever bought those?
> 
> 
> .......



Don't know anything about them, but they have some good deals on Fishers.


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> I've just discovered the House as a good source for new gear at a good price. http://www.the-house.com/




Wow yeah some of these prices are as cheap as used.  What do you all think of these?  Junk or no?   http://www.the-house.com/8960k2stkmf313zz-k2-skis.html


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Wow yeah some of these prices are as cheap as used.  What do you all think of these?  Junk or no?   http://www.the-house.com/8960k2stkmf313zz-k2-skis.html




Or would it be better to grab either of these...

http://www.the-house.com/8965fiv2rprbw14zz-fischer-ski-packages.html

http://www.the-house.com/8968noav75ape14zz-nordica-ski-packages.html

They showed me a 5% discount code too....  H30404


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## wa-loaf (Oct 19, 2014)

Not sure what kind of skier you are. But these are the kind of skis you find mostly in chain stores or in rental fleets. Good for people starting out if thats where you fall. The K2s are list as intermediate - advanced so would probably last you longer than the others that are beginner skis. All good brands however.


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## prsboogie (Oct 19, 2014)

http://www.the-house.com/8960k2afomm113zz-k2-ski-packages.html these seem pretty good and they are an additional 20% off in the cart.  Another thing you can do is sign up for activejunky.com and get 10% cash back for your purchase. It works like ebates if you have used that.


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## Highway Star (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Wow yeah some of these prices are as cheap as used.  What do you all think of these?  Junk or no?   http://www.the-house.com/8960k2stkmf313zz-k2-skis.html





Ragman said:


> Or would it be better to grab either of these...
> 
> http://www.the-house.com/8965fiv2rprbw14zz-fischer-ski-packages.html
> 
> ...



Those are beginner skis, and not really a deal at $300.  Did you look at my recommendation of the blizzards?  Much more ski, and the shop has a 163cm size.  

What height / weight are you and what is your ability / athletic level?


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## Ragman (Oct 19, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Those are beginner skis, and not really a deal at $300.  Did you look at my recommendation of the blizzards?  Much more ski, and the shop has a 163cm size.
> 
> What height / weight are you and what is your ability / athletic level?



Not sure if 163's would be too short. 
I'm 5'8" 165lbs. I'm not a weekend warrior. I'm a busy parent but I'd say I'm in decent shape for my age. 
I won't hesitate to play a pickup game of bball or football tho.
As far as skiing. I'm just getting back into it but I used to ski groomers and occasional off trail runs


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## Highway Star (Oct 19, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Not sure if 163's would be too short.
> I'm 5'8" 165lbs. I'm not a weekend warrior. I'm a busy parent but I'd say I'm in decent shape for my age.
> I won't hesitate to play a pickup game of bball or football tho.
> As far as skiing. I'm just getting back into it but I used to ski groomers and occasional off trail runs



I see.....you will outgrow most of these skis in very short order if you intend to ski more than 10 days a year and improve your skiing.   You should be looking at a ~90-100mm waist all mountain ski around 175cm, unless you only ski icy groomers.  Here's a very nice setup for $475 that is forgiving enough to get back into it on, you won't outgrow it, is a modern performance design, and will last a long time (100+ ski days). Definitely get the 177cm.

http://www.skiessentials.com/skis/m...-and-back-skis-w-marker-griffon-bindings.html

Review (this is a real ski):

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2013-2014-nordica-hell-back

We're talking about spending a bit more, but the difference in level of ski is absolutely massive.

Make sure you go to a decent shop that can properly fit your boots.  You can often get a deal on last season's models with boots too.  Don't buy a crappy low end boot from sports authority or whatever.  You should be able to get into a decent performance boot from a prior year for $300-400.  Do this as soon as possible, November into December is really peak selling season for shops and any deals are picked over by then.


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## Highway Star (Oct 19, 2014)

This is as good a time as any to talk about the different levels of skis that are out there.  There are many different types and brands of ski, it can be very confusing with all the marketing and even reviews.  But it really comes down to four levels:

Beginner crap - inexpensive, cheaply made skis that are great for learning the absolute basics of getting down the mountain.  Rental skis.  Commonly available for $200-$300.

Gaper crap - this is actually the biggest segment of the market, and rather profitable.  Includes most cap skis and skis with system bindings, narrower waists and tons of sidecut.  Sold to recreational skiers willing to spend $500-$1000, who over estimate their ability and are intermediate skiers with no hope of improvement.   Poorly constructed and mass produced with much more emphasis on cosmetics than build quality, really only good for about 30 days before noticeably wearing out.  Some of these skis can ski pretty well and be easy to ski on, but are very limited in performance.

Real skis - solid equipment intended for solid advanced level skiers who ski 20-30+ days a year.  Usually sidewall construction, direct mounted bindings, full wood cores, occasionally metal sheets, rocker, wider waists and (actually) less sidecut. All mountain skis, performance carving skis, recreational racing skis, entry level powder skis. Typically paired with performance bindings (12 to 14 max din) that are laterally stiff and durable.  Will stand up to 50-100 days of skiing on challenging terrain and conditions by a fairly aggressive skier.  Many people who are on "gaper crap" overskiing their equipment could really stand to be on this level of ski, these skis are still typically pretty forgiving but also capable of solid performance.  *The nordica's I linked to above are in this category.*

Expert/Pro skis - these are the biggest baddest meanest skis out there.  If you need this type of ski, you aren't going around asking what kind of skis you need.  You're already an accomplished skier probably with some sort of competitive background. These skis are almost always sidewall construction, full wood core, many have metal sheets, a largest size available of 185 to 200cm+, weights around 9.5-12lb.  Very wide powder skis, "big mountain" comp skis, race construction midfats, real race skis. Typically paired with a race binding with a 16 to 20 max din. Very strong and durable. Able to accommodate extremely aggressive skiing at high speeds, and not at all forgiving of poor technique or a lack of athleticism.


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## dlague (Oct 20, 2014)

IMO anything over 170 is a bit long for someone getting back in to it.  At 5'8" that is 170 cm so matching your height.  Actually a little shorter with give you a little more control.  There is nothing wrong with going with a recreational ski that is less expensive for a couple of years.  If you do get out ten times per season and really have a itch to ski more then you will have more knowledge about how and what you like to ski and will also have more knowledge about the gear.  There is not a shop out there that would put you into an advanced ski at longer lengths.  The fact is you know you budget and how aggressive you might be - just be honest about your capabilities.  My suggestion would be more like 165-170 length.  Learn to ski the groomers really good - not just get down.  Do more advanced trails, bumps, skiing at speed, etc.  


.......


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## Highway Star (Oct 20, 2014)

dlague said:


> IMO anything over 170 is a bit long for someone getting back in to it.  At 5'8" that is 170 cm so matching your height.  Actually a little shorter with give you a little more control.  There is nothing wrong with going with a recreational ski that is less expensive for a couple of years.  If you do get out ten times per season and really have a itch to ski more then you will have more knowledge about how and what you like to ski and will also have more knowledge about the gear.  There is not a shop out there that would put you into an advanced ski at longer lengths.  The fact is you know you budget and how aggressive you might be - just be honest about your capabilities.  My suggestion would be more like 165-170 length.  Learn to ski the groomers really good - not just get down.  Do more advanced trails, bumps, skiing at speed, etc.
> 
> 
> .......



Modern skis are extremely easy to ski on.  Most people are vastly undergunned.  I know 100 lb, 5' women who ski on 165cm midfats.


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## Ragman (Oct 20, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> This is as good a time as any to talk about the different levels of skis that are out there.  There are many different types and brands of ski, it can be very confusing with all the marketing and even reviews.  But it really comes down to four levels:
> 
> Beginner crap - inexpensive, cheaply made skis that are great for learning the absolute basics of getting down the mountain.  Rental skis.  Commonly available for $200-$300.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply HighwayStar.  The breakdown of different types of skis will help me make my decision.

The Nordicas you linked are very nice but way out of my price range, hence why I am looking for used.
Being a parent of an 8 yr old, unless he continues to ski, Im not sure how long I will.  So making a $500 - $1000 total investment inst very wise.  He just started last year but if he continues to show major interest then yes we will both be investing in new and the information you have just provided will help guide my purchase.

The only reason I have looked at any new ones is because the price of some of these cheaper packages are comparable with the used packages I have been looking at.

Really hoping to get equipped for less than $300 - total.  Just to get me by for a year or two.


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## Highway Star (Oct 20, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Thank you for the reply HighwayStar.  The breakdown of different types of skis will help me make my decision.
> 
> The Nordicas you linked are very nice but way out of my price range, hence why I am looking for used.
> Being a parent of an 8 yr old, unless he continues to ski, Im not sure how long I will.  So making a $500 - $1000 total investment inst very wise.  He just started last year but if he continues to show major interest then yes we will both be investing in new and the information you have just provided will help guide my purchase.
> ...



Fair enough, you should be able to score a deal locally on craigslist or at a ski swap.  Just know what you're getting for your money.   Good luck!


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 20, 2014)

Ragman said:


> *Really hoping to get equipped for less than $300 - total.*



The above better not be including the boots.  If it does, you're going to be _miserable._

At <=$300 for good used skis/bindings,  EBAY is probably your only hope.    And you should strike sooner than later, because the $$$$ on those auctions will slowly increase as we get closer to ski season.  There is an orgy of money spent after the first northeastern dusting of snow.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Downhill-Sk...4&rt=nc&_pppn=r1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo&_udhi=300


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## Highway Star (Oct 20, 2014)

Get these:

http://rochester.craigslist.org/spo/4701791743.html


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## Ragman (Oct 20, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Get these:
> 
> http://rochester.craigslist.org/spo/4701791743.html



I like those - I was turned away because of the length.  Are they decent skis?  Can you tell if the bindings are any good?

THanks.


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## Highway Star (Oct 20, 2014)

Ragman said:


> I like those - I was turned away because of the length.  Are they decent skis?  Can you tell if the bindings are any good?
> 
> THanks.



It's an Atomic Metron 9 ski from the mid 2000's, with atomic neox bindings.  They are not particularly out of date, and infact they are probably just as good as most modern skis for central new york skiing.  The bindings should be indemnified.  Nice intermediate to advanced, forgiving all mountain carving ski.  While it is a cap ski (atomic's beta construction) with a system binding, it's actually a rather good ski.  Try to get them for under $100.  

Hopefully they have a decent tune.  Otherwise get them tuned by a shop that knows what they are doing.

http://www.epicski.com/t/118734/tuning-tips-for-atomic-metron-9-skis

Keep in mind that in 2005, they were pushing REALLY short skis on everyone.  I'm 6'1" and they were trying to get me on 165-170's in every shop I went into - one of the more stupid eras in ski history.  This is an intermediate to advanced level ski, and their largest size is a 178cm.  You're not going to be skiing nasty bumps or tight trees, mostly crusing around on icy hardpack.  The size will be fine, and you'll be suprised how easy they are to turn.

http://www.epicski.com/t/23294/review-atomic-metron-ix


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## Ragman (Oct 20, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> It's a Atomic Metron 9 ski from the mid 2000's, with atomic neox bindings.  They are not particularly out of date, and infact they are probably just as good as most modern skis for central new york skiing.  The bindings should be indemnified.  Nice intermediate to advanced, forgiving all mountain carving ski.  While it is a cap ski (atomic's beta construction) with a system binding, it's actually a rather good ski.  Try to get them for under $100.
> 
> Hopefully they have a decent tune.  Otherwise get them tuned by a shop that knows what they are doing.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much HighwayStar.  Im thinking Im more about Control than speed as most of the time I will be starting and stopping to help my son get up.  On some occasions I will get the chance to fly down a run or two and if things work out in my favor a few times out with friends as fast as I can down the mountain.

So the biggest hesitation on my end with this pair is the length and sacrificing control.  Im not out of shape and I consider my legs to be of average strength so if 171 is short enough to give a 5'8" guy control on packed power or ice I might just pull the trigger on these.  Im thinking I can probably get them for $100.


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## billski (Oct 20, 2014)

thetrailboss said:


> I was going to suggest that you consider Level Nine or some other online retailers. The reason being is that I find that people overvalue their used equipment and you normally end up paying way too much for stuff.  That's just my opinion though. I know some people have found some great deals on used stuff but it seems every year that I go to ski swaps I become increasingly disappointed in how people want $500 for their skis that are trashed. Must be I'm going to the wrong ski swaps. Level Nine is legit. This is another good shop: http://www.ebay.com/usr/asogear?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



I agree with you.  Maybe the same people who are selling them had "sucker" all over their face when they bought them at MSRP!  I wonder what happens to these skis?  Do they all find suckers to buy them? or do they put them back away and sell them as "antiques"?


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 20, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Thanks so much HighwayStar.  Im thinking Im more about Control than speed as most of the time I will be starting and stopping to help my son get up.  On some occasions I will get the chance to fly down a run or two and if things work out in my favor a few times out with friends as fast as I can down the mountain.
> 
> So the biggest hesitation on my end with this pair is the length and sacrificing control.  Im not out of shape and I consider my legs to be of average strength so if 171 is short enough to give a 5'8" guy control on packed power or ice I might just pull the trigger on these.  Im thinking I can probably get them for $100.



These will be pretty easy to pivot, and they have a bunch of sidecut, they will be very turny.  They are not a high speed ski at all.


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## bigbog (Oct 20, 2014)

Ragman,
...171, or around that would be fine...


----------



## prsboogie (Oct 20, 2014)

These are exactly what you are looking for. Dump 200 on boots and you should be set. 325 all in!!


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## Ragman (Oct 20, 2014)

Thanks guys - Im going tonight to take a look.  He said he will take $80 for them, ex GF bought for him cause she wanted him to ski and he never did.  Says he would just like to see them go to someone who will use them then just sit around and collect dust.

Hopefully bottoms arent too bad.

So hopefully, I will be 1 step closer..  I will keep you all posted to what I end up with.


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## Highway Star (Oct 20, 2014)

Looks like you have a big ski sale coming up in Buffalo this weekend, right now would be the time to drop by a shop and try to get a deal on boots, otherwise any closeouts will get blown out at the sale.


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## Ragman (Oct 20, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Looks like you have a big ski sale coming up in Buffalo this weekend, right now would be the time to drop by a shop and try to get a deal on boots, otherwise any closeouts will get blown out at the sale.



Picked up the atomics. They seem to be in good shape. Might head to ski sale for my sons skis and some boots for the both of us. Unless anyone here has any hit leads on a nice set of 100cm skis with bindings?

Thanks everyone. I will keep this thread and my other one updated with everything I get.  Couldn't have done it without you guys


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 20, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Unless anyone here has any hit leads on a nice set of *100cm skis with bindings*?



Yeah, same as my prior advice.  EBAY.  That's far easier than finding a good adult set-up.  Shouldnt be a problem at all finding something nice and lightly used for <$150.


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> Yeah, same as my prior advice.  EBAY.  That's far easier than finding a good adult set-up.  Shouldnt be a problem at all finding something nice and lightly used for <$150.



Eh, ebay can be a bit overpriced unless you're really willing to hunt for a deal.


----------



## wa-loaf (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Eh, ebay can be a bit overpriced unless you're really willing to hunt for a deal.



Maybe it's the level of equipment I'm looking for, but I always find stuff elsewhere for less than it's being sold for on eBay.


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Picked up the atomics. They seem to be in good shape. Might head to ski sale for my sons skis and some boots for the both of us. Unless anyone here has any hit leads on a nice set of 100cm skis with bindings?
> 
> Thanks everyone. I will keep this thread and my other one updated with everything I get.  Couldn't have done it without you guys



Found this flyer online for the sale:

http://upstateskiandboard.com/content/file/Epic_Final_Web.pdf

Most of the boots are pretty low end and not the greatest of deals.  They have the Lange RS110 SC for $249 which is a good boot at a good price, but might be overkill for you.  You should probably be on something around a 90 flex index, maybe 100.  Should fit snug but not painful, watch out for boots that are too big on you.   Look for something a couple years old that they can really cut you a good deal on, they should have plenty of stuff like that.


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> Maybe it's the level of equipment I'm looking for, but I always find stuff elsewhere for less than it's being sold for on eBay.



There are tons of people flipping all sorts of goods on ebay.  Heck, I bought a pair of vintage atomic powder skis one year for $40 and sold them the next for like $260.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Eh, ebay can be a bit overpriced unless you're really willing to hunt for a deal.



 That's far from my experience.  Again, caveat emptor obviously, if you want to buy a $10 mousetrap on EBAY for $100,000, you can do that, but generally speaking EBAY is where some of the best deals can be found on......pretty much anything.  

"Hunting for a deal" is the entire point of EBAY.  If you're not willing to put in 5 minutes of work, you probably don't want or need the deal in the first place.


----------



## billski (Oct 21, 2014)

HighwayStar - where you been all my life?!!!   I read this whole thread and watched you develop a very sensible rationale for a ski purchase.  Your plain-speak about "crap" really cuts to the chase in terms of what to be shopping for.  I don't know how many different models are for sale, but it can be overwhelming if you don't know how to whittle.  
A run or two with you, with a professorial lecture on the chairlift would be most insightful!


----------



## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Found this flyer online for the sale:
> 
> http://upstateskiandboard.com/content/file/Epic_Final_Web.pdf
> 
> Most of the boots are pretty low end and not the greatest of deals.  They have the Lange RS110 SC for $249 which is a good boot at a good price, but might be overkill for you.  You should probably be on something around a 90 flex index, maybe 100.  Should fit snug but not painful, watch out for boots that are too big on you.   Look for something a couple years old that they can really cut you a good deal on, they should have plenty of stuff like that.



HighwayStar - what about these boots?  http://rochester.craigslist.org/spo/4701115786.html


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> HighwayStar - what about these boots?  http://rochester.craigslist.org/spo/4701115786.html



You can do better than that.

Again, DONT go cheapy, cheapy, dime store whoring on the boots or you're going to be miserable.   

If you want to pay $180, that's fine, you _can_ find good leftovers for that, but do so at a reputable ski shop's sale where they can help you with fit given you dont know what you're doing.  You can pay $1,200 for the best skis on the planet, and they wont be worth a damn if you have poor boot fit.


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> You can do better than that.
> 
> Again, DONT go cheapy, cheapy, dime store whoring on the boots or you're going to be miserable.
> 
> If you want to pay $180, that's fine, you _can_ find good leftovers for that, but do so at a reputable ski shop's sale where they can help you with fit given you dont know what you're doing.  You can pay $1,200 for the best skis on the planet, and they wont be worth a damn if you have poor boot fit.



I went to the local used sports equipment shop and they were selling boots that looked like they had been thru WW3 for $100 to $300  Most boots Ive seen in the shop new are starting at $250.  

Am I shopping in the wrong places?  What should an entry level boot cost?


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> I went to the local used sports equipment shop and they were selling boots that looked like they had been thru WW3 for $100 to $300  Most boots Ive seen in the shop new are starting at $250.
> 
> Am I shopping in the wrong places?  What should an entry level boot cost?



Yes, that's about what they cost.  Many used shops are overpriced.  Only way you can get a new performance boot from a shop for under $250 is that it has to be at least 2 model years old and you have to bargin on price - which is what I'm recommending.


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> You can do better than that.
> 
> Again, DONT go cheapy, cheapy, dime store whoring on the boots or you're going to be miserable.
> 
> If you want to pay $180, that's fine, you _can_ find good leftovers for that, but do so at a reputable ski shop's sale where they can help you with fit given you dont know what you're doing.  You can pay $1,200 for the best skis on the planet, and they wont be worth a damn if you have poor boot fit.



I thing you're being overly dramatic here.


----------



## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> HighwayStar - what about these boots?  http://rochester.craigslist.org/spo/4701115786.html



That's pretty reasonable, and the level of boot I'm recommending.  Boot is 100mm last, which is good if you have a normal foot.  Too many boots in that range or lower have a 104mm last which is a pure comfort fit - thick liners that pack out quickly.  Here is last years equivalent model, but note it is 104mm last.  The ski swap flyer has them for $299, which is overpriced.

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...kpid=2179558&gclid=CNC76IuIvsECFSgS7AodfgMAkA

I would say go to try them on, and offer $100.  You can always take them to a shop and have $30 of tweaks done, but you are taking a risk.  Tell them you got them while you were on vacation (lol).  Boots need to be tight but no bad pressure points (massive simplification).


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> That's far from my experience.  Again, caveat emptor obviously, if you want to buy a $10 mousetrap on EBAY for $100,000, you can do that, but generally speaking EBAY is where some of the best deals can be found on......pretty much anything.
> 
> "Hunting for a deal" is the entire point of EBAY.  If you're not willing to put in 5 minutes of work, you probably don't want or need the deal in the first place.



I've checked ebay daily for nearly a decade and have about 80 saved searches currently going.  I have scored seveal screaming deals over the years, after waiting for them, but most of my purchases come from other websites.  Ebay is clearly most expensive place to buy a used item besides a brick and mortar shop - MANY people make a business of buying items from yard sales, estate sales, craigslist, and storage auctions, to resell on ebay.  Even after fees and expenses, people typically make a good profit.  If you want something specific and you want a great deal, you may have to wait MONTHS to get it - just like any other deal.


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## SkiFanE (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> I went to the local used sports equipment shop and they were selling boots that looked like they had been thru WW3 for $100 to $300  Most boots Ive seen in the shop new are starting at $250.
> 
> Am I shopping in the wrong places?  What should an entry level boot cost?



The only time I've bought skiboots on the 'net is a pair I tried on in person first (for $750 midwinter) and found online in July for $300.  But I knew the size, and that they fit me well.   Otherwise, don't do it.  $180 seems like a good deal unless they end up hurting you and then you go spend $300 to get something that fits.  Like you've been told, don't skimp on boots, it can ruin your day.  

Oh...tent sales in the fall at ski shops ski areas have best deals, I think... much better than ski shops down in MA where I live - they NEVER have good deals.

Don't know where you are shopping, but I bought my daughter some awesome Lange boots 50% off last years model after Columbus day.  Still cost $300, but if you are pinching pennies so tightly that the difference between $300-180 in ski gear makes THAT big a difference, you should consider a different sport.  Or cut in other areas.  But DO NOT skimp on boots.  

Plus if you buy used on the internet, how do you perform the sniff test?!


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## Domeskier (Oct 21, 2014)

I think warmth, comfort and price are more important factors for intermediate-level skiers than performance.  Even if you can get a deal on a two-year old high-end boot, I think an intermediate would probably prefer a lower-level boot in terms of fit and comfort.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> *I thing you're being overly dramatic here.*



Yes, perhaps that's true, but my point is the boots are the most important part of the set-up, and given he doesn't know anything about ski equipment, that's the most important part to get "help" with from a ski shop.  If you send in beginners/low-intermediates to get ski boots with no help, many will pick out boots too big for them.  Money down the drain.  

Regardless, buying boots used without trying them on is not something I'd do for $180.  I did something like this ONCE in my life, and only because they were literally new boots for $50 (4 year old model, at $50 it was worth the risk to me as I figured I could flip them for at least that much if they didn't fit) - it wound up being perhaps the best ski bargain of my life, but I know my size well, and I was familiar with the manufacturer/shell.



Highway Star said:


> *If you want something specific and you want a great deal, you may have to wait MONTHS to get it* - just like any other deal.



I thing you're being overly dramatic here.


----------



## BenedictGomez (Oct 21, 2014)

SkiFanE said:


> The only time I've bought skiboots on the 'net is a  pair I tried on in person first (for $750 midwinter) and found online  in July for $300.  But I knew the size, and that they fit me well.    Otherwise, don't do it.*  $180 seems like a good deal unless they  end up hurting you and then you go spend $300 to get something that  fits.  Like you've been told, don't skimp on boots, it can ruin your  day.  *



_"Do not skimp on boots"_, should be a skiing bumper sticker.



Domeskier said:


> Even if you can get a deal on a two-year old high-end boot,* I think an intermediate would probably prefer a lower-level boot in terms of fit and comfort*.



This is a great point too.  I bet a lot of skiers overpay for boots that  their level of skiing isn't getting the benefits from anyway.  Like the  82 year old who buys a fancy TV with 101 features, of which they dont  use any.


----------



## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

SkiFanE said:


> Don't know where you are shopping, but I bought my daughter some awesome Lange boots 50% off last years model after Columbus day.  Still cost $300,* but if you are pinching pennies so tightly that the difference between $300-180 in ski gear makes THAT big a difference, you should consider a different sport*.  Or cut in other areas.  But DO NOT skimp on boots.
> 
> Plus if you buy used on the internet, how do you perform the sniff test?!



Im just trying to get back into skiing, if I find I like it and go often then more money will inevitably be spent.  Right now Im on a budget but I only went once last year and felt an urge I hadnt felt in over 20 yrs.  So this is me slowly getting back in, not dumping $1000 on equipment if I'm not sure how it will go for me.  Hence why the thread says used.  Maybe I should start another thread about the boots but I didnt want to clog up the forum with a bunch of newbie threads.


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

BenedictGomez said:


> *Regardless, buying boots used without trying them on is not something I'd do for $180*.  I did something like this ONCE in my life, and only because they were literally new boots for $50 (4 year old model, at $50 it was worth the risk to me as I figured I could flip them for at least that much if they didn't fit) - it wound up being perhaps the best ski bargain of my life, but I know my size well, and I was familiar with the manufacturer/shell..



These boots are on craigslist - locally.  I wouldnt buy any ski boots without trying them on.  And for the price this guy wants I would definately try them on and if the fit isnt perfect to me he can keep them.


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## SkiFanE (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Im just trying to get back into skiing, if I find I like it and go often then more money will inevitably be spent.  Right now Im on a budget but I only went once last year and felt an urge I hadnt felt in over 20 yrs.  So this is me slowly getting back in, not dumping $1000 on equipment if I'm not sure how it will go for me.  Hence why the thread says used.  Maybe I should start another thread about the boots but I didnt want to clog up the forum with a bunch of newbie threads.



Hahaha....you've been sucked in.  There is no turning back!  And now you think your kid will want to stop?!  You're in it for the long haul  

I see that you're trying on the boots, didn't know that...then yeah, go for it.  But don't ever by without trying on.  

And I am the crap-gear queen...my last skis were $75, ones before were $200...ones before that were a $100 used pair we bought for kiddo who didn't like them, so I used them.  I am the LAST person who thinks expensive gear is needed.  But boots are another story... I need new, but can't find a cheap enough pair, mine have 300+ days on them...think I'm going to spend the time this month, hoping for <$400....I'll find them, just takes time...but I'd rather continue to use these then buy something quick that hurt and are wrong for me.  They are so packed out it's crazy...


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

SkiFanE said:


> Hahaha....you've been sucked in.  There is no turning back!  And now you think your kid will want to stop?!  You're in it for the long haul
> 
> I see that you're trying on the boots, didn't know that...then yeah, go for it.  But don't ever by without trying on.
> 
> And I am the crap-gear queen...my last skis were $75, ones before were $200...ones before that were a $100 used pair we bought for kiddo who didn't like them, so I used them.  I am the LAST person who thinks expensive gear is needed.  But boots are another story... I need new, but can't find a cheap enough pair, mine have 300+ days on them...think I'm going to spend the time this month, hoping for <$400....I'll find them, just takes time...but I'd rather continue to use these then buy something quick that hurt and are wrong for me.  They are so packed out it's crazy...



I do agree tho.  back in the day when I used to ski after a long day at the slopes the only thing that would be bothering me is my feet.  But I thought most of the time was because they were so cold.


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## dlague (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> I went to the local used sports equipment shop and they were selling boots that looked like they had been thru WW3 for $100 to $300  Most boots Ive seen in the shop new are starting at $250.
> 
> Am I shopping in the wrong places?  What should an entry level boot cost?



They have these in 30.5, comfortable, good reviews and best of all - $126 - buy them and if not right for you then ship them back.  They will be new and no other foot was in there.  For that price they will be good for you and if you are really hooked then buy up in two years.  I would not go crazy and this helps towards your goal of keeping costs down.  This is just above entry level.

http://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-ski-boots/atomic-live-fit-70-2014.aspx#image=68695/322963/atomic-live-fit-70-ski-boots-2014-black-smoke-side.jpg


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## deadheadskier (Oct 21, 2014)

I would never recommend a 70 flex index boot to anyone over the age of 12.  Waste of money


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

dlague said:


> They have these in 30.5, comfortable, good reviews and best of all - $126 - buy them and if not right for you then ship them back.  They will be new and no other foot was in there.  For that price they will be good for you and if you are really hooked then buy up in two years.  I would not go crazy and this helps towards your goal of keeping costs down.  This is just above entry level.
> 
> http://www.evo.com/outlet/alpine-sk...ve-fit-70-ski-boots-2014-black-smoke-side.jpg



Those boots are SERIOUS garbage.


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> I do agree tho.  back in the day when I used to ski after a long day at the slopes the only thing that would be bothering me is my feet.  But I thought most of the time was because they were so cold.



Today's average performance boot is a good bit more comfortable than in the early 90s'.


----------



## billski (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Im just trying to get back into skiing, if I find I like it and go often then more money will inevitably be spent.  Right now Im on a budget but I only went once last year and felt an urge I hadnt felt in over 20 yrs.  So this is me slowly getting back in, not dumping $1000 on equipment if I'm not sure how it will go for me.  Hence why the thread says used.  Maybe I should start another thread about the boots but I didnt want to clog up the forum with a bunch of newbie threads.


  Ragman -these guys are getting off on a tangent, which happens sometimes here.   OK kids, Bruno the bouncer says THEY SHOULD go start your own thread!


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## Savemeasammy (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Those boots are SERIOUS garbage.



Not to mention they are only 2 buckle... 

I would err on the side of getting a better performing boot rather than a "comfort", intermediate/beginner boot.  A quality boot isn't going to hold back your skiing performance, but a $#itty one will.  Before too long, you will forget about the "extra" money you spent, and you will be the happy owner of boots that will last for several seasons.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Today's average performance boot is a good bit more comfortable than in the early 90s'.



My first ski boots were 1 buckle, 1 snap, rear entry.

These babies!


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

So would you guys say it would be better to get the Rossi's from craigslist if I could get them for $125 and if they fit well, over the Atomic's Dlague posted or neither?


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

ragman said:


> so would you guys say it would be better to get the rossi's from craigslist if i could get them for $125 and if they fit well, over the atomic's dlague posted or neither?



*Yes.*


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## dlague (Oct 21, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> I would never recommend a 70 flex index boot to anyone over the age of 12.  Waste of money





Highway Star said:


> Those boots are SERIOUS garbage.





Highway Star said:


> Today's average performance boot is a good bit more comfortable than in the early 90s'.



I suggest going to a ski shop for the fun of it explain you goals and see who will be right on this one.  I guarantee they will try to sell you a boot with similar flex.  I do not think a performance boot is required starting out again.  The stated goal was to just get out again.  Most of us ski with stiffer performance boots but I do not think that is the best at this point.  IMO

The problem with good skiers who ski a lot - they tend to think that the gear a beginner buys should be the same as theirs!  I get the good gear idea for someone who is committed to skiing for the long haul and skis 30+ days per season.  Don't need to be a snob about it!


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## Domeskier (Oct 21, 2014)

dlague said:


> I suggest going to a ski shop for the fun of it explain you goals and see who will be right on this one.  I guarantee they will try to sell you a boot with similar flex.



When I started skiing again a few years ago after a 15 year break, I had a shop recommend a 65 flex!


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

dlague said:


> I suggest going to a ski shop for the fun of it explain you goals and see who will be right on this one.  I guarantee they will try to sell you a boot with similar flex.  I do not think a performance boot is required starting out again.  The stated goal was to just get out again.  Most of us ski with stiffer performance boots but I do not think that is the best at this point.  IMO
> 
> The problem with good skiers who ski a lot - they tend to think that the gear a beginner buys should be the same as theirs!  I get the good gear idea for someone who is committed to skiing for the long haul and skis 30+ days per season.  Don't need to be a snob about it!



First of all, let me start out by saying that you have proven without a doubt in this thread that you know very little about ski equipment.  Dude is not a beginner, I don't care that he hasn't skied in 20 years:



Ragman said:


> Hello all.  Newbie here.  I have a few questions for anyone who can help but first a little background.
> 
> I skied alot back from 1986 to 1993.  Mostly local hills, I would say my  experience level was intermediate.  I would ski any run on the mountain  but double black diamonds with tons of moguls wasnt for me - I would  ski 10 to 20 feet, stop and repeat all the way down.  I like long  trails, carving turns and speed. Not into moguls.
> 
> ...



He just bought some pretty legit carving skis that are CERTAINLY NOT beginner gear, and THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL he would able to effectively ski on them with a 70 flex, mushpot beginner boot.  Futhermore, why would he buy beginner gear when he will clearly outgrow it within the first day of skiing???

100 flex boots are NOT aggressive boots.  They are just out of the range of being pure crap.  Anybody, including an absolute beginner, can ski on them.  I'm not advising him to get a 150+ flex plug boot here, or even a real 120-130 flex performance boot. Just some half decent boots that will work for actual skiing.


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> 100 flex boots are NOT aggressive boots.  They are just out of the range of being pure crap.  Anybody, including an absolute beginner, can ski on them.  I'm not advising him to get a 150+ flex plug boot here, or even a real 120-130 flex performance boot. Just some half decent boots that will work for actual skiing.



So at the risk of sounding stupid, the higher the flex,the stiffer the boot movement, the more control you have?  In other words the more you control the ski the less you let the ski do the work?


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> So at the risk of sounding stupid, the higher the flex,the stiffer the boot movement, the more control you have?  In other words the more you control the ski the less you let the ski do the work?



Yes, more or less, but it's a bit more complicated than that.  Beginners typically would use a soft flexing boot, with a soft liner, and little lateral stiffness, because they are making rough movements with little finesse in their skiing, and are typically "pushing around" and pivoting light skis at slow speeds.  Experts use a stiff to very stiff boot, with a firm liner, and lots of lateral stiffness (much more and stiffer plastic in the shell), because they are actually putting forces into a ski, edging it and flexing it, as part of advanced ski technique - they are skiing a ski.  Having a stiff performance boot lets them put huge amounts of force into a ski, but also do it with the necessary precision and finesse.  They are also skiing larger, heavier, stiffer skis, which may be as much as twice as heavy as a beginner ski/binding (<10lb vs. 15-20lb).  For example, I'm skiing a boot with around a 140 flex, and my normal skis are typically heavy race construction midfats and fats, 185-190cm, 15-17 lb with bindings.  100 flex boots are a pretty good compromise - stiff enough to learn and ski with proper technique, but still cushy and forgiving.  

Here is evo's guide to boots, which also discusses fit:

http://www.evo.com/how-to-choose-ski-boots-size-and-fit-guide.aspx


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

One more thing with those Rossignols HS, My foot tends to be a little wide - do you see a problem with that?  I saw you mentioned earlier 100mm and 104mm  are these widths?


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## MadMadWorld (Oct 21, 2014)

Someone hacked Highway Star's account! Just ignore all this friendly and helpful behavior


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> One more thing with those Rossignols HS, My foot tends to be a little wide - do you see a problem with that?  I saw you mentioned earlier 100mm and 104mm  are these widths?



It all depends, if they are too tight then they are too tight, but they should be snug against the foot.  The "last" or boot width is the internal measurement at the forefoot of the shell of a standard 26 mondo size boot, it can be taken as a nominal measurement - larger sized boots have proportionally wider widths.  The stiffness of the liner is also a consideration, low end boots are not only wide, but have soft liners, while higher end boots are narrower with a stiff liner, resulting in a far more snug fit than the matter of a few millimeters would suggest.  Mid range boots are....right in the middle, and just right for most people.

A large majority of boots are sized on people with too much length (one size too big).  The boots you're looking at are likely already sized generously for a size 12 shoe wearer, so they should accommodate a wider foot.  Most advanced skiers size their boots down significantly, for example I wear a size 9 street shoe, but ski a 25 mondopoint boot which translates to a size 7.  You might want to find out what size these rossi boots are, they are probably a 30 mondo, which is plenty big.  29 would probably be ok but snug.  28 would likely be too small on a wide foot.  But who knows, need to try them on.  Here is the evo conversion chart:

http://www.evo.com/mondo-point-size-and-conversion-chart.aspx

Here's some more general reading on ski boots:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=Ig9facOhFWKKFxW_ujhl8g&bvm=bv.77880786,d.cWc


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

MadMadWorld said:


> Someone hacked Highway Star's account! Just ignore all this friendly and helpful behavior



Sorry, I'm trying to be as much of a condescending jerk about it as possible.


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## Ragman (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> It all depends, if they are too tight then they are too tight, but they should be snug against the foot.  The "last" or boot width is the internal measurement at the forefoot of the shell of a standard 26 mondo size boot, it can be taken as a nominal measurement - larger sized boots have proportionally wider widths.  The stiffness of the liner is also a consideration, low end boots are not only wide, but have soft liners, while higher end boots are narrower with a stiff liner, resulting in a far more snug fit than the matter of a few millimeters would suggest.  Mid range boots are....right in the middle, and just right for most people.
> 
> A large majority of boots are sized on people with too much length (one size too big).  The boots you're looking at are likely already sized generously for a size 12 shoe wearer, so they should accommodate a wider foot.  Most advanced skiers size their boots down significantly, for example I wear a size 9 street shoe, but ski a 25 mondopoint boot which translates to a size 7.  You might want to find out what size these rossi boots are, they are probably a 30 mondo, which is plenty big.  29 would probably be ok but snug.  28 would likely be too small on a wide foot.  But who knows, need to try them on.  Here is the evo conversion chart:
> 
> ...





Somethin dont make sense then.  Seller says he wears a size 12 sneaker (as do I) but he says the size on the boot is 27.5  DOnt think my wide ass foot will ever fit in those.  Might still check it out. But according to the EVO chart and what youve told me they will be wayy too small.


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## Hawkshot99 (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Somethin dont make sense then.  Seller says he wears a size 12 sneaker (as do I) but he says the size on the boot is 27.5  DOnt think my wide ass foot will ever fit in those.  Might still check it out. But according to the EVO chart and what youve told me they will be wayy too small.



Kost people wear sneakers that are WAY to big for them. Its not manly to tell people you have small feat...

When I was in HS my shoes were size 11 and ski boots I had were a 29.5 (equivalent to a 11.5). After HS I got a properly sized pair of ski boots and then realized how big all of my shoes were. I am now down to wearing a size 9 sneaker and a 26 (equivalent to a 8) ski boot. My foot measures out to a 10 or mondo 28.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 21, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> for example I wear a size 9 street shoe, but ski a 25 mondopoint boot which translates to a size 7.



That sounds like overkill to me.  I go down one size.  Two sizes and I would think the toes would no longer lie flat in the liner even in the skiing position.  I wear a 9.5 street shoe. Standing up straight, my toes are pressed right up against the liner tightly in a 26.5 mondo with a minimal amount of toe wiggle; not what I'd call comfortable.  In the skiing position, they back away from the liner a little and still fit tight, but are comfortable. 

Then again, I have 100% completely flat feet. When I saw a podiatrist, he was shocked that my knees, hips and back don't constantly ache because of how flat my feet are. So, my foot is going to lie a little longer in the boot than the average person unless I put in foot beds with an aggressive arch.....something I've tried, but not enjoyed.


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Somethin dont make sense then.  Seller says he wears a size 12 sneaker (as do I) but he says the size on the boot is 27.5  DOnt think my wide ass foot will ever fit in those.  Might still check it out. But according to the EVO chart and what youve told me they will be wayy too small.



Oh yeah, it's right in the listing.  You can confirm size with the shell size of the boot, a 27-27.5 should be right around 315mm, its molded in the plastic.


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## Highway Star (Oct 21, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> That sounds like overkill to me.  I go down one size.  Two sizes and I would think the toes would no longer lie flat in the liner even in the skiing position.  I wear a 9.5 street shoe. Standing up straight, my toes are pressed right up against the liner tightly in a 26.5 mondo with a minimal amount of toe wiggle; not what I'd call comfortable.  In the skiing position, they back away from the liner a little and still fit tight, but are comfortable.
> 
> Then again, I have 100% completely flat feet. When I saw a podiatrist, he was shocked that my knees, hips and back don't constantly ache because of how flat my feet are. So, my foot is going to lie a little longer in the boot than the average person unless I put in foot beds with an aggressive arch.....something I've tried, but not enjoyed.



I've skied 25's for nearly 20 years, they fit fine in the toe. 26 is too big, even in a plug boot.  I have a low volume flat foot.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2014)

Sounds like a unique scenario to your foot and your personal performance preferences.

I assume you would agree with me, that the standard mondo size reduction is one shoe size, not two.


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## ScottySkis (Oct 22, 2014)

I should have an opinion on this subject in about a month or so at K. Come on cold air.


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## Highway Star (Oct 22, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Sounds like a unique scenario to your foot and your personal performance preferences.
> 
> I assume you would agree with me, that the standard mondo size reduction is one shoe size, not two.



One downsize is normal for advanced skiers.  Two for experts and racers.  Three for world cup and other elite racers.


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## BenedictGomez (Oct 22, 2014)

deadheadskier said:


> Sounds like a unique scenario to your foot and your personal performance preferences.
> 
> I assume you would agree with me, that the standard mondo size reduction is one shoe size, not two.



Couldn't there be some preference at that point.  My hockey skates are 6.5, but I wear an 8.5 or 9 in shoes.  My skates are NOT comfortable, but they feel like they're an extension of my body.


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## deadheadskier (Oct 22, 2014)

um, did I not say "your personal performance preferences"  ????


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## wa-loaf (Oct 22, 2014)

Generalizing, but I thought down one size is "performance fit" and down 2 is "race fit" I suppose you could go 3 sizes but I can't imagine doing that without a lot of work on the boot. I'm a size 9.5/10 street shoe and have 26.0 shell. I wouldn't want to go any smaller!


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## Scruffy (Oct 22, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> Generalizing, but I thought down one size is "performance fit" and down 2 is "race fit" I suppose you could go 3 sizes but I can't imagine doing that without a lot of work on the boot. I'm a size 9.5/10 street shoe and have 26.0 shell. I wouldn't want to go any smaller!



 This discussion points out why it's important to go to a good boot fitter. Everyone's feet are different from everyone else, and even  between their own right and left . The shades of grey even between typical types of feet are wide and varied. One persons personal experience may not relate to another of the same size foot, that is measured in one dimension.


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## Ragman (Oct 22, 2014)

Scruffy said:


> This discussion points out why it's important to go to a good boot fitter. Everyone's feet are different from everyone else, and even  between their own right and left . The shades of grey even between typical types of feet are wide and varied. One persons personal experience may not relate to another of the same size foot, that is measured in one dimension.



Should any reputable ski shop have or be a good boot fitter?


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## wa-loaf (Oct 22, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Should any reputable ski shop have or be a good boot fitter?



There are plenty of shops that have good fitters, but not all will. You can check here for boot fitters in your area: http://www.bootfitters.com/find-shop


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## Highway Star (Oct 22, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Should any reputable ski shop have or be a good boot fitter?



There are plenty of ski shops that don't have a good boot fitter.


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## skiNEwhere (Oct 22, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> There are plenty of ski shops that don't have a good boot fitter.



This is unfortunately true.

I'd check out America's best bootfitters (bootfitters.com), and cross reference that with yelp to see if customers were pleased with their bootfitting.


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## Ragman (Oct 22, 2014)

I went and got fitted today at the local ski shop.  Found my mondo size to be 29.5 - so those craigslist boots would most likely be a waste of my time.

Found a pair I really did like at the ski shop tho but $300 is too much for me.   http://www.sunandski.com/2015_Rossi...63522520.htm?gclid=CLyS5vGywcECFSgLMgodN2kAAg

I will keep looking but it was nice to see all the new stuff.  Couldnt believe that some of the boots on the wall were on sale for $599 'gulp'

ahh dare to dream


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## gmcunni (Oct 22, 2014)

wa-loaf said:


> There are plenty of shops that have good fitters, but not all will. You can check here for boot fitters in your area: http://www.bootfitters.com/find-shop




only 1 listed in CT, an hour from me


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## Highway Star (Oct 22, 2014)

Ragman said:


> I went and got fitted today at the local ski shop.  Found my mondo size to be 29.5 - so those craigslist boots would most likely be a waste of my time.
> 
> Found a pair I really did like at the ski shop tho but $300 is too much for me.   http://www.sunandski.com/2015_Rossi...63522520.htm?gclid=CLyS5vGywcECFSgLMgodN2kAAg
> 
> ...



Hate to tell you to shop locally and then buy online.  It is what is it is.

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...kpid=2179558&gclid=CNvlv6LgwcECFQ8R7AodXmoAQg


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## gmcunni (Oct 22, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Hate to tell you to shop locally and then buy online.  It is what is it is.
> 
> http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...kpid=2179558&gclid=CNvlv6LgwcECFQ8R7AodXmoAQg



pics are different, perhaps last year's vs this years?


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## Highway Star (Oct 22, 2014)

gmcunni said:


> pics are different, perhaps last year's vs this years?



Yes. Clearly the same boot though.


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## dlague (Oct 22, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Hate to tell you to shop locally and then buy online.  It is what is it is.
> 
> http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...kpid=2179558&gclid=CNvlv6LgwcECFQ8R7AodXmoAQg



Nice!

I found these not the same boot but an option.

http://www.levelninesports.com/Atomic-Live-Fit-Plus-Ski-Boots



Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## Highway Star (Oct 22, 2014)

dlague said:


> Nice!
> 
> I found these not the same boot but an option.
> 
> ...



Come on man, really?  Not only are those an entirely different boot, you know, because different boots have different lasts and liners, but they are an entirely different class boot - a two buckle comfort fit / park boot deal.  In fact, you previous recommended a different version of this boot earlier in the thread, which I slammed.  Do you have some sort of thing for these boots?  Because they are NOT COOL.


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## dlague (Oct 22, 2014)

Highway Star said:


> Come on man, really?  Not only are those an entirely different boot, you know, because different boots have different lasts and liners, but they are an entirely different class boot - a two buckle comfort fit / park boot deal.  In fact, you previous recommended a different version of this boot earlier in the thread, which I slammed.  Do you have some sort of thing for these boots?  Because they are NOT COOL.



I get it! The deal you found is great.  I was just throwing that out there.  Sorry did not want to stir the pot.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone


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## Ragman (Dec 18, 2014)

Just wanted to update.  Ended up getting used Atomic Metra Skis(171) with Atomic Neox 310 bindings for $75  and picked up a used pair of Rossignol Alias Sensor 100 boots for $90.  Got the bindings adjusted to correct length (338mm - 33 CM) and correct DIN (6.5)  Just need to pick up a helmet and some poles for me and the boy and we will be ready.

Unfortunately the snow hasnt been falling enough here.  Still green outside.  Only mountains close that are open have but 2 or 3 runs going.    

Patiently awaiting some real snow.

Thanks everyone for your guidance.


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## dlague (Dec 18, 2014)

Ragman said:


> Just wanted to update.  Ended up getting used Atomic Metra Skis(171) with Atomic Neox 310 bindings for $75  and picked up a used pair of Rossignol Alias Sensor 100 boots for $90.  Got the bindings adjusted to correct length (338mm - 33 CM) and correct DIN (6.5)  Just need to pick up a helmet and some poles for me and the boy and we will be ready.
> 
> Unfortunately the snow hasnt been falling enough here.  Still green outside.  Only mountains close that are open have but 2 or 3 runs going.
> 
> ...



What is closest to you - Greek Peak?


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## Ragman (Dec 18, 2014)

dlague said:


> What is closest to you - Greek Peak?



Bristol Mountain and Swain are the 2 closest to me.

We have a small park hill with a tow rope here that was supposed to open on the 14th but it is still green.


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