# How bad have skier visits and business been this year?



## slatham (Feb 14, 2016)

I am worried that this year could be worse than 11/12. Christmas was a bust. From what I saw and heard, MLK weekend had low attendance, I guess due to how bad the skiing was over Christmas, because the skiing over MLK weekend (in So VT at least) was pretty good.

Now we have a record breaking cold snap right on the Presidents weekend. Bromley yesterday was somewhere between a busy weekday and a dead weekend. Great skiing, not that cold (ok, late in the day it was). Today it's -23 and only lower mountain is open to start the day - similar situation at other mountains - and will surely be a ghost town. This week doesn't look too promising either with Tuesday's wet storm. 

What have AZer's heard and witnessed?


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## drjeff (Feb 14, 2016)

Lots of cars up at condos and hotel in the Mount Snow area this weekend - a quiet day on the mountain yesterday - the only lift with a line was the Bluebird, and even then it wasn't that big by weekend standards here. It's empty on the hill today as I look out my window, now that the air temp is nearing zero, I'm going to head out in a bit for some runs.

It was a quiet x-mas week up here, a decent, but not usual volume MLK Weekend, and the last few weeks have been just like that, decent, but at best "average" and more likely a bit below average.

The only thing I've seen that is likely running at, if not above the averages, is bar sales!! That's been busy, even when the on hill volume hasn't been!


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## soulseller (Feb 14, 2016)

Gunstock was quiet yesterday, never more then a 3 chair wait.


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## JDMRoma (Feb 14, 2016)

Cannon was dead yesterday ! Tram was never full from the opening till 3pm. Only place that was busy was the pub and they were hoping ! 


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## Savemeasammy (Feb 14, 2016)

Off topic, but are there any bumps at Bromley, Slatham?  Last year there were some great ones in the blue ribbon quad area.  


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## steamboat1 (Feb 14, 2016)

Weekdays have been quiet in VT. but that's not unusual. The one Saturday I did ski a couple of weeks ago at Sugarbush the place was mobbed. All parking at LP was filled & they added quite a bit of new parking this year. On the other hand Sunday at Killington wasn't bad but I was told it was much more crowded on Saturday.


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## xwhaler (Feb 14, 2016)

Not empty here at Ragged. Ski on both chairs of course but a fair # of people on the trails and in the lodge.   
Groomers are skiing awesome.


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## Edd (Feb 14, 2016)

xwhaler said:


> Not empty here at Ragged. Ski on both chairs of course but a fair # of people on the trails and in the lodge.
> Groomers are skiing awesome.



At these temps, the snow tends to ski very well.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 14, 2016)

I imagine a season like this could threaten some of the smaller players.


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## tumbler (Feb 14, 2016)

Sugarbush dead yesterday and ghost town today. Monday should be interesting to see how many people come out with warmer temps. They just can't catch a break this year. They are also done making snow the next day or two when it warms up.


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## machski (Feb 14, 2016)

Skied Stratton yesterday, Gondola had a 30 minute line (they were only sitting guests and I think it was running a bit slow due to wind) but all the 6ers were 4 minutes tops on the front side, and ski on for both on the sun bowl side.  Lodges were fairly crowded and some trails were a bit busy, but all in all it was dead.  We were only going to ski an early half day today since we are NH and wide has school tomorrow, so we skipped as they were lower mtn only this am.


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 15, 2016)

JDMRoma said:


> Cannon was dead yesterday ! Tram was never full from the opening till 3pm. Only place that was busy was the pub and they were hoping !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



Sunday made Saturday look like a holiday weekend at Loon.I left at noon and the lower 3 pods next to Brookside were empty as well as the road parking.Cant ever remember that on any weekend day.And thats with all the brit groups there also.


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## ShadyGrove (Feb 15, 2016)

A local nordic center said that yesterday was off by 75% and they've been keeping records since the '70s.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 15, 2016)

Pretty dead at Attitash today.  Peaks crowds had five minute lines at the 2 HSQ. All other lifts were ski on


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 16, 2016)

The ski areas cant get a break.The weather gives a few inches of snow and there would be a window today before the heavy rain comes but I see a lot of areas have many wind holds.The loaf and Loon have most of their key lifts on wind hold.


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## Smellytele (Feb 16, 2016)

Yesterday at Pats peak it was dead in the morning and then picked up around 130 and the parking lot filled up. People were waiting for it to warm up. Trails all skied well yesterday much better than Saturday when I was there.


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## machski (Feb 16, 2016)

Bet a lot of the holds are for Iciing this morning.  Real thick layer at my house in south central NH.  Idiot town plowed the road early before the change over, was a damn Luge run this morning.


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## gregnye (Feb 16, 2016)

Fairly busy at Sunapee yesterday. Lots of people on limited trails because they had a problem with the Sunbowl Express, so half the mountain was closed. They were really trying to keep spirits up with free hot chocolate and running the lifts until 4:15 to try to make up for it.


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## joshua segal (Feb 16, 2016)

Based on the title of this thread., "How bad have skier visits and business been this year?", I was hoping to see some industry numbers on how the season has been going.  Anecdotally, most everyone is saying,"not good."  But has anyone seen any skier visit numbers?


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 16, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Based on the title of this thread., "How bad have skier visits and business been this year?", I was hoping to see some industry numbers on how the season has been going.  Anecdotally, most everyone is saying,"not good."  But *has anyone seen any skier visit numbers?*



The only "number" I've seen related to any actual metrics was an equity analyst's estimate that SKIS top-line revenue is likely 50% of what it should be.   Equity analysts, however, are often wrong, so who knows if that's true or not.   In response/rebuttal to that analyst, SKIS noted they had a very strong 2nd half of January.   Anyway, based on what a trainwreck this season has been, however, complete with bad timing around Christmas, MLK, and Presidents Weekend, it wouldn't shock me if the numbers are poor.


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## farlep99 (Feb 16, 2016)

Stowe has been VERY quiet.  Lots of business really hurting, so much so that there's going to be a few "locals" nights during the weeks with shops staying open until 9pm & trying to encourage local shopping.  A handful of people I know have rental properties & did not rent them out for Xmas-NYE week OR Presidents weekend.  That apparently never happens.  I hope more businesses don't shut down because of this season.  The mountain, obviously, will be just fine


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## joshua segal (Feb 16, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> The only "number" I've seen related to any actual metrics was an equity analyst's estimate that SKIS top-line revenue is likely 50% of what it should be.   Equity analysts, however, are often wrong, so who knows if that's true or not.   In response/rebuttal to that analyst, SKIS noted they had a very strong 2nd half of January.   Anyway, based on what a trainwreck this season has been, however, complete with bad timing around Christmas, MLK, and Presidents Weekend, it wouldn't shock me if the numbers are poor.


Thanks.  That's the best info I've seen.  As to Peak Resorts, MLK weekend was superb at Crotched Mtn.  I assumed it was industry-wide, but based on what you are saying, that must not be true.


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## Whitey (Feb 16, 2016)

Sugarbush today.   There are people here.   But few were skiing after about 2PM.    All were hunkered down in condos or just leaving.   Weather is awful.   Rain on and off all day, pouring now at about 6PM.   I would post a TR but its too depressing to write.    Too wet/rainy to even bring out a camera to take pics.     Today was actually "OK" with some wet soft snow.   But it's hard to see how any of the next few days will be anything short of "disaster".


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## thetrailboss (Feb 16, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Based on the title of this thread., "How bad have skier visits and business been this year?", I was hoping to see some industry numbers on how the season has been going.  Anecdotally, most everyone is saying,"not good."  But has anyone seen any skier visit numbers?



I think that the fact that SAM is only really talking about the west coast is a huge indication:

http://www.saminfo.com/news/january-booking-pace-picks-out-west

Though they ran this one today:

http://www.saminfo.com/news/el-nino-follies-early-season-snowmaking-2015


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## Gforce (Feb 18, 2016)

business is way down. Talk to any of the managers or commercial guys at the resorts. Lots of cancellatons this year. Most of the chairs are loaded with season pass holders from what I have observed. Day trippers and casual weekend skier visits seem to be way down.  I suspect any mountain with marginal snowmkaing are taking a beating.

Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.


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## catskills (Feb 18, 2016)

Gforce said:


> business is way down. Talk to any of the managers or commercial guys at the resorts. Lots of cancellatons this year. Most of the chairs are loaded with season pass holders from what I have observed. Day trippers and casual weekend skier visits seem to be way down.  I suspect any mountain with marginal snowmkaing are taking a beating.
> 
> Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.



Gforce has it right.  Let me summarize.  ALL North East ski areas are totally fxxkxd and will be running in the red.  With all the climate change talk,  many ski areas may find it difficult to get bank loans.    Hey I am just the not PC messenger.   

If you enjoy skiing,  get out and buy some ski tickets before your favorite mountain closes.


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## VTKilarney (Feb 18, 2016)

Gforce said:


> Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.


I'd be surprised to see this.  I hope you are right, though.


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## ss20 (Feb 18, 2016)

Ski shop owner telling me it's the worst season he's seen.  Same source said area mountain revenues are down 30%.


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## slatham (Feb 18, 2016)

Savemeasammy said:


> Off topic, but are there any bumps at Bromley, Slatham?  Last year there were some great ones in the blue ribbon quad area.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app



Sorry for late response! Bumps have been lacking, I believe due to less skier traffic due to late season opening for many bump trails (Pabst Panic for instance), lower skier traffic due to weather etc, and more need to groom after thaw/freeze. Plenty of base should we get a dump and/or spring conditions.


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## dlague (Feb 19, 2016)

Heard a great interview of the Mount Snow GM.  She was talking about how skier visits have been down.  They cancelled all travel by employees and managers have been job sharing to limit overtime.  She also said that the media reports of dangerously cold temps kept people away and the lack of snow and ability to open terrain during Christmas break has been something they have had to manage.   They also said that snow making generally stops before Presidents Day weekend but they had to make the tough decision to continue since the base is 1 - 2 feet less than what they would like this time of year heading into spring.  They are committed to make it into mid April.  Also talked about presales as a good way to get people to come since they pay in advance.


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## drjeff (Feb 19, 2016)

dlague said:


> Heard a great interview of the Mount Snow GM.  She was talking about how skier visits have been down.  They cancelled all travel by employees and managers have been job sharing to limit overtime.  She also said that the media reports of dangerously cold temps kept people away and the lack of snow and ability to open terrain during Christmas break has been something they have had to manage.   They also said that snow making generally stops before Presidents Day weekend but they had to make the tough decision to continue since the base is 1 - 2 feet less than what they would like this time of year heading into spring.  They are committed to make it into mid April.  Also talked about presales as a good way to get people to come since they pay in advance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone



I've known Kelly Pawlak, Mount Snow's GM, for about 10yrs now. She's always been a straight shooter and tells it like it is (in spite of the fact that she started out as a marketing department person  :lol: )  Sure there are a few company secrets I'm know she keeps, but in general she is about as honest a person as they come, and frankly runs a great ship, where there is literally no job she won't do on a day to day basis!! You're just as likely to see her scanning tickets or running a lift line or cleaning tables in the cafeteria (or as my wife tells me since I've never personally seen it for obvious reasons, cleaning the women's room  ) as you are out on the hill taking a few runs with guests!

She's also a realist, in that after roughly a quarter century in the business, she knows that there will be good seasons, bad seasons, and average seasons. You make changes as the season evolves based on what it evolves into, and always look towards the future as to how you can improve upon where the business is at today - how much capital you have available to make those desired improvements is the yearly variable


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 19, 2016)

catskills said:


> Gforce has it right.  Let me summarize.  ALL North East ski areas are totally fxxkxd and will be running in the red. * With all the climate change talk,  many ski areas may find it difficult to get bank loans.*    Hey I am just the not PC messenger.



I can assure you, the bolded is not true. 

 There are many variables that bulge bracket banks like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc.. might consider before pulling the trigger on a 2,5, 10 year loan to a ski area, but Global Warming is *not* one of them.


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## Domeskier (Feb 19, 2016)

BenedictGomez said:


> I can assure you, the bolded is not true.
> 
> There are many variables that bulge bracket banks like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc.. might consider before pulling the trigger on a 2,5, 10 year loan to a ski area, but Global Warming is *not* one of them.



For what it is worth, SKIS cites climate change and greenhouse effects in the risk factors section of its 10-K.  I doubt it would be a determining factor in the decision to make a loan, but it probably has some marginal impact on rates.


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## BenedictGomez (Feb 19, 2016)

Domeskier said:


> For what it is worth,* SKIS cites climate change and greenhouse effects in the risk factors section of its 10-K.*



And they're smart to do so.  It's dirty-lawyer repellent.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 20, 2016)

I'm in Stowe right now.  I've never seen the town so quiet on a mid winter Saturday........ever.  talking with friends, several several businesses likely won't make it, some through in the towel weeks ago.


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## ALLSKIING (Feb 20, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> I'm in Stowe right now.  I've never seen the town so quiet on a mid winter Saturday........ever.  talking with friends, several several businesses likely won't make it, some through in the towel weeks ago.



I wonder if people are staying closer to home. Killington has been pretty busy this weekend. Pretty long lift lines and most restaurants had a 40 min wait. I have heard midweek has been dead and business are down from other years.


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## skibumski (Feb 20, 2016)

With no backcountry skiing or even in-bounds woods skiing in play, the sad fact is that Stowe is a long way from population centers for people to get pretty much the same product as they're going to get everywhere else closer.  Manmade snow, mostly groomed due to repeated r@!n and blowtorching.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 20, 2016)

Word around town is mountain revenue is down 33% from last year


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 20, 2016)

skibumski said:


> With no backcountry skiing or even in-bounds woods skiing in play, the sad fact is that Stowe is a long way from population centers for people to get pretty much the same product as they're going to get everywhere else closer.  Manmade snow, mostly groomed due to repeated r@!n and blowtorching.



totally this. by this time in any other season i would have already had stowe and jay days skied.


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## drjeff (Feb 20, 2016)

This is the 2nd weekend in a row, and at most per my recall, the 3rd weekend all season up in the Mount Snow region that I would say that there's at least been a "healthy" number of cars at the various hotels, condos and private residence complexes up here.

Not breaking attendance records on the slopes, but at least if people are up here for a few days, that helps out a bit for the local businesses


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## yeggous (Feb 20, 2016)

After looking for hotels for this weekend and bed I can tell business is dead. I had no problem finding last minute availability and fire sale prices both in Lyndonville and Stowe.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 20, 2016)

i found the opposite in lincoln/loon, and ended up getting a room all the way down in laconia for $70. couldnt find anything in lincoln under $150 a night. i usually ski cannon in the spring and stay in lincoln for like $65 priceline name your own, so i was surprised about the lack of cheap rooms this weekend. also heard a lot of british accents today.


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## yeggous (Feb 20, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> i found the opposite in lincoln/loon, and ended up getting a room all the way down in laconia for $70. couldnt find anything in lincoln under $150 a night. i usually ski cannon in the spring and stay in lincoln for like $65 priceline name your own, so i was surprised about the lack of cheap rooms this weekend. also heard a lot of british accents today.



We are in Lyndonville for $65 tonight. Stowe next weekend for $90/night. There is lots of availability.

Lincoln might be a different story being so far south. If you're ever looking for affordable lodging in North Conway, let me know. My ski club host guests for $25/person/night.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 20, 2016)

yeggous said:


> We are in Lyndonville for $65 tonight. Stowe next weekend for $90/night. There is lots of availability.
> 
> Lincoln might be a different story being so far south. If you're ever looking for affordable lodging in North Conway, let me know. My ski club host guests for $25/person/night.
> 
> ...



yea, as stated earlier in the thread, it comes down to the northern resorts being largely unable to offer what makes them better than the southern ones. if i cant ski the trees and sidecountry, then im not going to stowe. etc.


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## deadheadskier (Feb 20, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> yea, as stated earlier in the thread, it comes down to the northern resorts being largely unable to offer what makes them better than the southern ones. if i cant ski the trees and sidecountry, then im not going to stowe. etc.



To each their own,  I consider Stowe to be the best place to ski groomers in New England.  Yes, the side country and natural snow is the real draw, but if all there is to ski is groomers in New England, Stowe is where I want to do it.  2 separate mountain areas with 2k vert of great pitch serviced by fast last lifts.  Distance and price is the set back.


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## KustyTheKlown (Feb 20, 2016)

sure the stowe groomers are great, but not for the price when plenty of places offer a fine groomer product. i could never fathom paying stowe prices just to ski groomers.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 20, 2016)

ALLSKIING said:


> I wonder if people are staying closer to home. Killington has been pretty busy this weekend. Pretty long lift lines and most restaurants had a 40 min wait. I have heard midweek has been dead and business are down from other years.



Midweek is not dead but it's not crowded either. Not much different than what I've experienced over several years of midweek skiing at K. There are peeps there but like usual not crowded at all. K midweek is a blast.


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## machski (Feb 21, 2016)

KustyTheKlown said:


> sure the stowe groomers are great, but not for the price when plenty of places offer a fine groomer product. i could never fathom paying stowe prices just to ski groomers.



That in my book is killing them this year.  The ridiculous advertised price for what they can offer.  May have some vert, but they do not offer a huge selection of trails without natural snowfall.  Could not see paying that price for snowmaking groomers only.


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## steamboat1 (Feb 21, 2016)

Hayride, Liftline & Nose Dive are not your everyday run of the mill groomers. They offer a lot more challenge than your average groomer. Would I pay Stowes price to ski them? Heck no but I wouldn't anyway even if they were 100% open. I've yet to pay more than $45 to ski Stowe.


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## goldsbar (Feb 21, 2016)

Hunter was busy yesterday (Saturday).  

Count me in as one of those that won't travel north for groomers.  Catskills are my travel limit (~2 hrs) for no trees or natural snow trails.  Groomers are just fine at Elk, Belleayre, Hunter, etc.


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## slatham (Feb 21, 2016)

http://www.uvm.edu/~empact/data/gen...&width=800&height=600&smooth=0&csv=0&totals=0

Hope springs eternal. The 2 years that have been mentioned by ski area personnel over the past week while I was in VT as being as bad or worse than this year are 79/80 and 82/83 (complete agreement that this is way worse than 11/12). Its interesting to look at the Mt Mansfield snow graphs that are on the above link. Very similar look YTD, with end of Feb depths in the 25-30" area (as shocking as that is!). But do note the uptrend thereafter, with both years getting to 50" by the end of March and 82/83 hitting a whopping 80" by the end of April. Too late to save the year economically, but maybe there is some good or great skiing still come!

THINK SNOW!


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## skibumski (Feb 21, 2016)

slatham said:


> http://www.uvm.edu/~empact/data/gen...&width=800&height=600&smooth=0&csv=0&totals=0
> 
> Hope springs eternal. The 2 years that have been mentioned by ski area personnel over the past week while I was in VT as a as bad or worse than this year are 79/80 and 82/83 (complete agreement that this is way worse than 11/12). Its interesting to look at the Mt Mansfield snow graphs that are on the above link. Very similar look YTD, with end of Feb depths in the 25-30" area (as shocking as that is!). But do note the uptrend thereafter, with both years getting to 50" by the end of March and 82/83 hitting a whopping 80" by the end of April. Too late to save the year economically, but maybe there is some good or great skiing still come!
> 
> THINK SNOW!



What is this, someone left with hope on AZ?! Preposterous!


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## slatham (Feb 21, 2016)

Yes, I am completely and helplessly optimistic, even after several brutal beatings this winter by wet and warm weather. But some of the weather guys I follow are showing the opportunity for a better pattern coming up (this weeks storm notwithstanding) and at least the historical record says it can happen, even in a terrible winter!


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## WWF-VT (Feb 23, 2016)

Story in today's Boston Globe business section .  Print edition included a picture of the less than stellar snow under the Single chair at MRG.

New England ski industry feeling under the weather


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## Smellytele (Feb 24, 2016)

Monday skied Burke. Groomers skied great and fast, Never got scraped off. Only about 100 people there. 
Tuesday skied Stowe - the steep groomers where great. Most ungroomed open were sketchy but skied a few.  A few woods were in play and found some fresh off the gondola. Steady crowd but ski on all day.


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## SIKSKIER (Feb 24, 2016)

Gforce said:


> .
> 
> Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. .



Interesting that you posted this.I just saw a post by Cannon that they are rolling back prices for next year.Early buy in by May 31st will be $599 for NH resident.I believe I paid $625 for this year.Plus 2 anytime tickets.


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## Puck it (Feb 24, 2016)

SIKSKIER said:


> Interesting that you posted this.I just saw a post by Cannon that they are rolling back prices for next year.Early buy in by May 31st will be $599 for NH resident.I believe I paid $625 for this year.Plus 2 anytime tickets.


I paid $829 last year for out of state.
  They are now $799


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## fcksummer (Feb 24, 2016)

slatham said:


> Yes, I am completely and helplessly optimistic, even after several brutal beatings this winter by wet and warm weather. But some of the weather guys I follow are showing the opportunity for a better pattern coming up (this weeks storm notwithstanding) and at least the historical record says it can happen, even in a terrible winter!



I've had it up to here with patterns, euros and nams this year. Only pattern I see is shit one week followed by shit the next.


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## jaybird (Feb 24, 2016)

cheaptickets.com could be your saviour.


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## Gforce (Mar 8, 2016)

Gforce said:


> business is way down. Talk to any of the managers or commercial guys at the resorts. Lots of cancellatons this year. Most of the chairs are loaded with season pass holders from what I have observed. Day trippers and casual weekend skier visits seem to be way down.  I suspect any mountain with marginal snowmkaing are taking a beating.
> 
> Look for Fire-Sale '16/17 season pass sale offers this Spring at some of the NH mountains. Marketers are worried about the pysch of the NE skier and snowboarder.




Peaks Resorts stepped up in a Huge way.  $599 for all the mountains including Mt. Snow. Super deal.  Looks like it is very popular based on the buzz here on the AZ.    Is Boyne Resorts going to Ante Up ??


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## Jcb890 (Mar 8, 2016)

Mount Snow was not very busy on Sunday.  I know Sundays are typically less busy, but I don't recall it ever being that slow on any Sundays last season.


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## drjeff (Mar 8, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Mount Snow was not very busy on Sunday.  I know Sundays are typically less busy, but I don't recall it ever being that slow on any Sundays last season.



This past Sunday was one of the quieter Sunday's I've skied this Mount Snow this season.  It was quite nice given that Saturday was pretty crowded, and crowded in a historical sense for a March Saturday, not just a "this season" sense


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## Jcb890 (Mar 8, 2016)

drjeff said:


> This past Sunday was one of the quieter Sunday's I've skied this Mount Snow this season.  It was quite nice given that Saturday was pretty crowded, and crowded in a historical sense for a March Saturday, not just a "this season" sense



That's interesting.  We were up there the previous Sunday also - the 28th - and this past Sunday was certainly less busy.  It was fine with us, our work crew had a great time.  I personally had a blast trying to keep up with a few of my co-workers who are *FAST* skiers.  I hit a bunch of records for this season on Sunday - top speed, vertical ft, # of runs, miles traveled, etc.

I wonder why Saturday was so crowded.  I almost never go to Snow on Saturdays.


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## drjeff (Mar 8, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> That's interesting.  We were up there the previous Sunday also - the 28th - and this past Sunday was certainly less busy.  It was fine with us, our work crew had a great time.  I personally had a blast trying to keep up with a few of my co-workers who are *FAST* skiers.  I hit a bunch of records for this season on Sunday - top speed, vertical ft, # of runs, miles traveled, etc.
> 
> I wonder why Saturday was so crowded.  I almost never go to Snow on Saturdays.



My hunch is the Saturday demand was a combo of nice weather, plenty of pent of demand from this season, the promise of fresh snowmaking, and possibly some folks checking the mountain out after the Peak did the pass price release the day before.  I did ride the Bluebird Saturday 3 or 4 times where people my wife and I were riding it with mentioned that it was either their 1st time at Mount Snow or their first time back in many, many years.....  Their amazement of the bubble is always a bit of a giveaway that they haven't been to Mount Snow in at least 5 seasons now


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## SkiingInABlueDream (Mar 8, 2016)

If the forecast stays sunny and warm at least for this Saturday I think this weekend will be busy, especially if ppl have tickets to burn. (I have a Sugarbush quad pack I haven't touched yet.)


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## Jcb890 (Mar 8, 2016)

drjeff said:


> My hunch is the Saturday demand was a combo of nice weather, plenty of pent of demand from this season, the promise of fresh snowmaking, and possibly some folks checking the mountain out after the Peak did the pass price release the day before.  I did ride the Bluebird Saturday 3 or 4 times where people my wife and I were riding it with mentioned that it was either their 1st time at Mount Snow or their first time back in many, many years.....  Their amazement of the bubble is always a bit of a giveaway that they haven't been to Mount Snow in at least 5 seasons now



Ah, that makes sense.  I'm surprised (but happy) that Sunday was so sparse with crowds then.  I didn't think anything of it until at lunch time we walked into the Sundance lodge and there were actually empty seats at tables.  Our work group was able to get an entire table together... which is normally not feasible.  By the time afternoon rolled around, it was less and less busy.  My wife is still pretty slow, so I have to wait for her at times and I recall waiting for her on Long John at one point and there not being anyone who came by me for a solid minute or so.  That never happens on Long John.

The Bluebird is definitely a nice lift.  However, the lines tend to get ridiculous and if it isn't too cold or windy, I'd just rather take the Grand Summit quad.  Sunday certainly was nice enough.  It was a bit windy at times, but nothing zipping up the jacket wouldn't take care of.

One thing I did notice on both Grand Summit and Bluebird - the "runouts" when getting on the lifts are not long enough or are not the correct pitch.  If I take the Grand Summit and don't physically use the posts to slow myself down going onto the moving carpet, it'll push me too far.  As an experiment I let myself slide onto the moving carpet when the gates opened (like you're supposed to) and then just stood on my snowboard, letting the carpet push me up to the chair.  I wound up about 2-3" from falling off the end of the runout and the chair just picked me up before going off.  Perhaps they should make that runout come upwards a bit to help slow down momentum coming off of the little moving carpet section.

For the Bluebird, the issue just seems that the space where the chair picks you up isn't long enough.  Sometimes the chair picking me up almost feels like its going to push me off of the chair and by that point, you're at the end of the loading platform.

These are really minor gripes, just things I noticed and thought were a bit odd.


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## machski (Mar 8, 2016)

Gforce said:


> Peaks Resorts stepped up in a Huge way.  $599 for all the mountains including Mt. Snow. Super deal.  Looks like it is very popular based on the buzz here on the AZ.    Is Boyne Resorts going to Ante Up ??



Up what ante?  They already announced pass pricing, they went up slightly.  Highly doubt they will pull it back now.


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## Gforce (Mar 9, 2016)

$1049...  Is that correct ?


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## joshua segal (Mar 9, 2016)

Gforce said:


> Peaks Resorts stepped up in a Huge way.  $599 for all the mountains including Mt. Snow. Super deal.  Looks like it is very popular based on the buzz here on the AZ.    Is Boyne Resorts going to Ante Up ??


Note: Those prices for Peak Resorts go up significantly on April 30.


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## gmcunni (Mar 9, 2016)

joshua segal said:


> Note: Those prices for Peak Resorts go up significantly on April 30.



i assume you can order online to lock the price but pick up at the beginning of next season?


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## deadheadskier (Mar 9, 2016)

gmcunni said:


> i assume you can order online to lock the price but pick up at the beginning of next season?



You just need to get your $99 down before the deadline and agree to the five installments to the same CC thereafter to cover the balance.  When you pick up the pass is of no concern.


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## deadheadskier (Mar 9, 2016)

Also, you considering this pass G?  Seems like it would be a good bet for you with Hunter and Snow both being within day trip range.


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## machski (Mar 9, 2016)

Gforce said:


> $1049...  Is that correct ?



If you mean Gold New England unlimited, yes.


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## slatham (Mar 30, 2016)

Mad River Glenn reports budgeting to operate 100 days but only operating for 45 this past season. Also, an interesting quote about last year (14/15), especially with regard to being open late into spring:

“No x-mas, no MLK Weekend, brutal cold, more snow south, Boston folks couldn’t get out of the city, then we went very long into the spring which always eats through cash’’ the reply continued. “Bottom line is it was a great snow year but no record setter financially.’’


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## steamboat1 (May 11, 2016)

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=432


*Gunstock Requesting Million Dollar Loan from County*Belknap County owned ski area needs short term loan to get through off season.Sunday, May 8, 2016, NewEnglandSkiIndustry.com
[FONT=Georgia, Arial] Following its worst season in decades, Gunstock is requesting a $950,000 bridge loan from Belknap County in order to fund off season expenses.

*The 2015-16 season, which ran from December 4 to March 27, reportedly resulted in just 115,000 skier visits, sharply lower than the ski area's normal 150,000 to 200,000 range.
*





 "Gunstock Mountain, May 6, 2016

 According to the Laconia Daily Sun, the ski area often obtains these loans from Belknap County, however this request is at least 33% higher than previous requests.  The ski area's management plans to repay the loan by the end of the next ski season.

 Gunstock is owned and operated by New Hampshire's Belknap County, and pays the county some $175,000 per year in an agreement stemming from taxpayer funds being used to pay down debt.

 According to the fiscal year 2013 Melanson Heath audit, Gunstock had $6.25 million of long term debt, which was expected to be reduced to $5 million by 2015.

 A new $2.6 million bond was added to the debt load last year in order to fund a new mountain coaster.  Construction started in early February and is currently running ahead of schedule, with all concrete work now complete.  Located just north of the former Mt. Rowe single chairlift, the coaster climbs uphill toward the historic ski jumps before descending 2,660 feet back to the base area.  The attraction may open for the Fourth of July holiday.
[/FONT]


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## deadheadskier (May 11, 2016)

That's telling. I remember discussing the profitability of Gunstock with the former Director of Marketing and he said there had only been a handful of times over their history where they had to ask for money from the county.  That's why lease discussions don't come up with Gunstock like they do with Cannon. The mountain is usually a nice financial asset to the county.


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## Edd (May 11, 2016)

The amount requested by Gunstock was approved unanimously this week.


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## Bostonian (May 12, 2016)

Edd said:


> The amount requested by Gunstock was approved unanimously this week.



Glad to hear that the County stepping in to help out.  I can tell you first hand that it was brutal for gunstock this year, just a really bad year as a whole.   It didn't help that they closed down mid week during December, when it was abnormally warm last year too.  Hoping to snag a pass before the rates go up in November - even at $557 it's a pretty good pass to have.  Hopefully this coming year will be better for them and all the other ski areas.


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## BenedictGomez (May 12, 2016)

Ski areas should purchase weather derivative contracts in order to protect themselves and limit the downside from poor winters. 

  If I worked in the finance department of a ski area, this is definitely something I would explore.


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## steamboat1 (May 20, 2016)

A recent Stowe Today article depicts just how much the
bad snow conditions affected everything from tourist dollars to skier visits:

After a strong November, Stowe’s rooms, meals and alcohol taxes
nosedived in December and January. December was down in meals (9.2 percent),
rooms (16.9 percent) and alcohol sales (1.5 percent). January was down 1.9
percent in meals, 11.9 percent in rooms, and 5.2 percent in alcohol.



At Stowe Mountain Resort, skier visits were down 18-20 percent
this winter.
President's Day week had a lot of rain and that Sunday (which
usually marks the busiest day of the season), temperatures were dangerously
cold at 30 degrees below zero.
Sales at stores in downtown Stowe were down anywhere from 5 to
20 percent.
Locals kept eating out, however, so restauranteurs said that
sales were only around 10 percent. 
Overall, the ski town survived.
Stowe Mountain Resort's investment in snowmaking kept the ski area open through
April 24, which is impressive given the weather. Michael Colbourn, vice
president of marketing sales and communication at Stowe Mountain Resort, told
the Stowe Today, "Historically, this was the
worst natural-snowfall year ever, at least as far as the records that we have
here at the resort, and going by the stake at the top of the mountain."
Fingers crossed for a better season next year.


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## BenedictGomez (May 20, 2016)

steamboat1 said:


> Michael Colbourn, vice
> 
> 
> president of marketing sales and communication at Stowe Mountain Resort, told
> ...



*FACT CHECK:*  True

Though with fairly unimpressive 'N's.   These were the 3 worst years I could find.  

YOMV in that some may say 1956-57 was worst, but this year was either worst or second worst at any rate.  The other interesting thing I found by comparing all the years is that a lot of the worst years seem to be in that 1950s - 1960s time period, which refutes the oldtimers always saying _"we used to get so much more snow back...." _- plotting this all out actually makes me feel fortunate for the last 20 years.


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## deadheadskier (May 21, 2016)

The fish is always bigger in memory than reality.

I suspect the old timers memory of more snow had more to do with lesser technology in moving that snow out of the way.


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## jimk (May 21, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> The fish is always bigger in memory than reality.
> 
> I suspect the old timers memory of more snow had more to do with lesser technology in moving that snow out of the way.



Born in 1953 and I would tend to agree with you.  My parents owned the same home in close-in Wash DC suburbs from 1959 to 2005.  I moved within a couple miles of them in 1999 and always lived within 90 mins or so of them in the years between.  In the "old days" at my parent's house in the 1960s and 70s I seem to remember snow staying on the ground for longer periods of time than in "modern days" of 1980's and later.  That may be from exaggerated childhood/teenage memories or because the dense population and urban heat island hadn't yet enveloped their part of the suburbs leading to warmer temps and better snow removal.  As a homeowner/adult over the last 30+ years in various parts of Northern VA I've seen plenty of surprisingly big snow storms.  We get a surprising number of 15-25" storms close to the city, probably only a little less frequently than major coastal cities further north such as NYC or Boston.  Only anecdotal, but seems like we'd only get a storm like that in or close to the city about once a decade. Now it seems like they happen about once every five years.  What makes our area tough for skiing is we get random heat waves or multiday rain storms at any time all winter long in between cooler weather.  That's kind of always been true during my 50 years as a skier down here.


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## Scruffy (May 21, 2016)

Big snow years come and go, always have, so the "old timers" remember the big ones, nothing new there. Just watch the film "White Christmas" with Bing Crosby. It's fictional, of course, but it would have a huge plot hole if there wasn't some truth to the fact that not all Vermont winters are replete with snow.


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## dlague (Jul 20, 2016)

Fron Cannon's Meeting Minutes - Overall ski season revenue and visits off roughly 33%, on par with SkiNH members reporting in.  So while overall ski industry revenue was up about 5% it was not because of New England.


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## slatham (Jul 20, 2016)

Down 25-35% in the NE seems to be the range. Time for a rebound season&#55357;&#56832;


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## thetrailboss (Jul 20, 2016)

Scruffy said:


> Big snow years come and go, always have, so the "old timers" remember the big ones, nothing new there. Just watch the film "White Christmas" with Bing Crosby. It's fictional, of course, but it would have a huge plot hole if there wasn't some truth to the fact that not all Vermont winters are replete with snow.



Yep. In my lifetime and the 31 years I was in Vermont Christmas skiing was always a crap shoot. Lots of snow and terrain some years, grass others, and somewhere in between for most. 


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone


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## deadheadskier (Jul 20, 2016)

They should move the Christmas Holiday to January 25th. Just claim there was a typo in the good book.


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## BenedictGomez (Jul 20, 2016)

deadheadskier said:


> They should move the Christmas Holiday to January 25th. Just *claim there was a typo in the good book*.



The date's actually not listed in the bible, and the actual birthday of Christ is not known.  Moving it now might be a tough sell though!


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## steamboat1 (Jul 21, 2016)

thetrailboss said:


> Yep. In my lifetime and the 31 years I was in Vermont Christmas skiing was always a crap shoot. Lots of snow and terrain some years, grass others, and somewhere in between for most.


Same can be said for Presidents weekend. No snow in NE that weekend is what first got me up to QC over 20 years ago.


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## machski (Jul 21, 2016)

And there it is ^^^^. Doesn't really matter when a holiday is, any time of the winter sports months can have a lack or a plethora of snow.


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